RV-Archive.digest.vol-do
October 24, 1997 - October 29, 1997
told me that he never exceded 72 inch in dia. Has anybody on this list encounter
the
same problem ? And is it really a problem ?
Many thanks
ROLANDO Denis
fuselage RV4 in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | server going berserk?? |
This morning I got 170 messages, and I had just checked in last night
before going to bed. I found a lot of messages that had no text with
them and appeared to be duplicate entries? Anybody else concur?
Scott(setting up shop & tools for RV-4 project)
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
I have a friend who has built an RV-4. He used 6-32 screws to
fasten the canopy to the frame. On these screws he used a nut that looks
like an acorn nut, but has a red plastic center for the cap. I also seen
a -4 at Kerville last week that had the same nuts. If anyone knows what
I am writing about, and where I can purchase them, would you please let
me know?
Thanks in advance,
Carroll Bird, -4 #3919 Working on cowl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
I want to put an automatic pilot in my RV6A and would appreciate any
comments good or bad with auto pilot models put in an RV. I have the
broshures on Navaid, but do not have any feedback of its performance. I have
also seen STEC in Aircraft Spruce.
My use of an auto pilot will be for high altitude flight when using the GPS
in direct mode. Thats pretty much all I want it for.
All comments greatly appreciated !!!!
Scott Johnson / Chicago : waiting impatiently for my new hartzell constant
speed prop !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Repair |
I know there are places you can get air tools repaired, but at this time, I
don't know of any-personally.
The call depends on whether or not you have more time than money, or vice-
versa.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | How do I paint thee, let me count the ways |
Many are the times when a builder gets close to finishing the building
process, they express fears and doubts about whether they have the ability
and/or knowledge to do the actual painting themselves. My feeling was that
if you have done everything else up to this point, why stop now ? Of course
I realize that not everyone has the space or equipment or perhaps has a
health concern, but if none of these are really a factor for you, I urge
you to try it. Ask yourself ,"what is the worst that can happen if you do a
lousy job" ? The answer is to simply sand it down and treat is as an
undercoat and try again. I did use the scariest material (polyurethanes),
but I bought a Hobby Air and it was like standing in a cool fresh ocean
breeze. No odor and full protection. I also used a paper suit and wore
latex gloves and some barrier cream on my wrists if they got exposed. I
waited until my neighbor was away and fired up the compressor. For all the
stories I have heard about how you need a $400 gun and a 60 gal. 5 horse
compressor just was not the case. This 20 gal 2 horse job did a wonderful
job. Sure , I had some mishaps like spilling a cup full of mix and dragging
a kinked hose across the most beautifully finished wing panel I had done to
date, but I just let it dry, sanded it and sprayed a mist coat on again and
it was fine. What a feeling when you pull off the masking tape and paper.
Your project now makes a statement back to you as the culmination of all
the effort done to date. It is very like when you went to your girl's door
and she was standing there beautifully attired and waiting for you to
behold. (Kind of). BTW, I also used two of those supposedly difficult and
scary to use pearl or candy apple deep finishes that came out like you
would have to see to believe. How they play in the sunlight !
Total cost to me including clean up stuff was $400 tops. It is
also only the second time I have tried to spray paint a finish. I only
relate this, not to glorify my attempts, but to urge you to give it a try
because if I can do it, so can you. When I first got married, I was so
inept at "handy-man" tasks that I didn't know which end of a hammer to pick
up. Good luck, and forge on !
Austin
on the Wet Coast.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
Any opinions on the need for alternator cooling, (blast tube from baffleing)
? If it is required, what is the best location for the tube? (Front or rear
of alt)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Walt Hastings RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Shortened Seat Backs |
I've seen some planes (6 and 6As) at OSH with seat backs cut flush with the
level of the F605F. In planes I've ridden in with the shortened seats I can
reach back into the luggage compartment to get things with the regular
height seats I cannot. I'm 5'9" and average build.
I'd appreciate comments on the shortened seats. Maybe if DJ Lauritinsen is
listening, she can comment on how many builders buy her Custom RV Interiors
specifying shortened seat backs.
Thanks.
Dennis Barrington, IL seats installed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Poor Mans Glass Panel Moving Map, Has Anybody Done This ? |
Has anybody taken a PC laptop, and dissociated the screen from the laptop
unit, and then mounted the screen on their panel ?
Has anybody used the Mentor moving map GPS software that shows your
airplanes position on a highly detailed, colored VFR moving map on your PC ?
Since I already have the GPS, and unused laptop, I would only have to
purchase the software ( about $500 ).
This would be substanially less than the 7,000 to 10,000 glass panels I have
seen at flyins.
As always, any comments are greatly appreciated !
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com (wondering if I should take the PC screen off
myself ..., those wires are tiny)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building RV8 in garage/in hanger |
----------
> From: Charles Woodson <soe.berkeley.edu!woodson(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Building RV8 in garage/in hanger
> Date: Friday, October 24, 1997 5:24 PM
>
>
> I am about to start building an RV8. My wife is not sympathetic to the
> idea of me using the garage.
> Can anyone offer me some estimates on the relative amounts of time these
> alternatives would take?
>
> Charles Woodson
> http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~cw
Charles,
I could not resist this one. Try to do some negotiating with
your wife
so that you may work as much as possible at home, because in fact, if the
truth be known, the building does not take up much space until you do the
fuselage and even then you have a tandem. At home you have no travel time
lost which is at least 20 minutes each way per day. You have all the tools
at hand, wife can see and communicate to you instantly if need be. Lots of
time will be spent just studying the plans. Rivet when she is not home. I
guarantee you that it will take 4 times longer to work 8 miles away. There
are innumerable little jobs like attaching nut plates that you can do when
you only have 1 hour to spare. It all adds up. That is why I feel it is
useless to log how many hours it took to build. Do you log time spent
thinking ? You must do it to clarify the next step that you want to
undertake . I did most of my building on my wife's freezer in the basement.
I didn't even build a work bench. I did however saw a 6x6 foot hole in the
wall to get the fuselage out (twice). You wouldn't know it today though. I
once took an airplane out to the airport 8 miles away because I felt that
if the wings were on, well, I was finished wasn't I ? Surprise, I was
another 2 months doing engine work and several other small jobs I could
have done at home where I had heat, light, power and all the tools at hand.
Believe me, stay at home and you will finish 4 times faster.
Austin T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Bulkhead Positioning |
Fellow Listers (especially the RV-4 experts):
I am positioning the bulkheads on my RV-4 fuselage jig. Specifically I am
aligning all the bulkheads aft of F-407. I am using a series of strings
and long straight edges to be sure bulkheads F-408, 409, and 410 will be
aligned perfectly and allow the fuselage skin to lay flush (both on the
sides and bottom) relative to a straight line between F-407 and F-412. All
bulkheads are positioned as per the plans. Everything is perfect except
for F-408 which is in effect is too wide (by about 1/8" - 3/16" each side)
at its designated position on the jig.
Question: if I leave it as is, will I have difficulty positioning the
fuselage skin at this point (will it bulge out noticeably). Another option
is to move this bulkhead forward until it fits side to side but this means
cutting off the flanges of the F-418 baggage ribs and making new flanges
effectively shortening these ribs (also resulting in the movement forward
of the elevator bellcrank mount at this point).
Your opinions and suggestions as always are appreciated.
*******************************************
Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Building at Home vs. at Airport |
> I am about to start building an RV8. My wife is not sympathetic to the
> idea of me using the garage. Several builders have advised me that
> building in the garage will go faster than building at the airport (8
> miles away). I am trying to quantify this. I think a lot of time will
> involve studying the plans, which I can do at home.
> Can anyone offer me some estimates on the relative amounts of time these
> alternatives would take?
When you are viewing the plans, it's a *lot* easier to be able to look
at the parts, too.
Also, if it's at home, you can go down for 10 minutes right before dinner/
bed/going to work/whatever. You can't do that at the airport.
If it's at home, you're available if the wife needs you or wants to
spend quality time. She can grab her project and sit in the garage
with it, talking to you while you're building.
Ditto if you have kids or pets.
I'm doing mine in the basement. It's a walk-out with a 6-foot door, so
I'll be able to get it out. But I checked out my old house, and I could
have gotten the wings in and out. This means you could work in a basement
until it's time to do the fuselage, then move it outside or to the airport.
I didn't notice where you're from. If you use the garage, you'll have to
install climate control or be willing to not build based on the weather.
In Minnesota, there are many summer days it's just too hot in the garage.
And from about October to April, it's too cold, even when I added one of
those propane heaters. I went through a lot of propane, but all my tools
were far to cold to hang onto.
If a basement area is an option, start there and move to the garage only
when you have to. Otherwise limit yourself to only half the garage (at
least for now) and let your wife park inside. (Move her car out when you
work so you don't clank it with aluminum parts.)
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Sent: Sunday, October 19, 1997 11:01 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Wire specs
>
>Bob, is the insulation (crosslinked extruded polyalkene) on the AWG #2
>M81044/9 surplus wire that you sell closely related to TFE (teflon)?
>
I guess I'm not sure how to answer that . . . not being a chemist
I cannot attest as to "closness" of the two materials. I can say
that there's light years of difference in ALL modern insulations versus
the old cotton covered rubber (1940), textile braid over PVC (1950)
nylon over PVC (1960) straight teflon (1970) and anything coming
out of the mills today. The wire I purchase came from Boeing salvage
and was used on modern airframes.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Follow-up on Jerry Harrold |
Yesterday I finally received a refund check from Jerry Harrold. Last
week I started pestering him every day and got very close to threatening
him with more than a phone call. That seems to have done it.
and I turned right around and ordered a set of gear leg fairing from Mark
Frederick.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
N601DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building RV8 in garage/in hanger |
Charles,
I can not speak for the guys who are building at the airports, but I was
told very early on by some experienced RV builders that the key to getting
the kit finished is to try do a little EVERY day. This is great advice and
I do know that unless you have a lot of free time that you may find it hard
to get out to the airport to work on the plane. Some nights you may only
have an hour or so, and if the plane is right there you can use that time.
Most builders I know find it much more convienient to work on their planes
at home until the have to move it to the airport for final assemble. Also,
your wife may not be too happy about the $150+ a month rent for a hanger
that you really don't need.
Hope this helps.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Runaway trim . . . |
>I know for a fact if the trim were all the way to one extreme you
>>would have a hell of a time bringing the airplane back in one piece. I would
>>consider this a saftey of flight item.
>>
>
>If you can't overpower the electric trim, it doesn't belong in the
>airplane. I had a trim
>runaway one time and it was not fun but not terribly dangerous.
>Along the same lines, I was planning to install a navaid autopilot in my
>plane but am having 2nd thoughts. If the autopilot were to "wig out" while
>cruising 50mph above manuevering speed, It might make an awful mess before
>I can recover. I wouldn't even want to think about such an event occuring
>in IMC. I know that all A/Ps are clutch driven, so overpowering it should
>not be a problem. It's just a matter of what might happen in the 4 or 5
>seconds it takes to get a grip on things.
>
>Opinions??
>
There is a strong movement in amateur built airplanes to have electric trim
ONLY coupled to tabs on elevators and driven by small actuators. Light,
pretty reliable, and easy to install. Since this type of trim has no
cockit component . . at least mechanical ones . . . then manually
overpowering
such a system is impossible.
Here's where it's vital to understand he consequences of uncommanded full
travel . . . if you've explored it for yourself and find it manageable,
so be it. If it could be difficult to handle, THEN additional safeguards
are indicated. The "trim arm" push button is my personal favorite. You
cannot get any trim motion without actuating two switches and since you
are putting in a trim command at the time any tendency for uncommanded
motions are discovered, your reaction time to stop the trim system is VERY
short.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Trim Runaway |
>
>
><< Pulling a breaker on trim runaway is too time consuming and there's
> a lot of window for error. If your trim breaker is located in a whole
> nest of other breakers, the possiblity of pulling the wrong one in
> time of "tense pilot response" is great. . . . we need to shave
> tens of milliseconds off of the perception-reaction-action time needed
> to bring things under control.
> >>
>Bob,
> Come on now. Its time to give a little. The breaker for your electric trim
>need not be mounted amongst all the others. One could easily be mounted it in
>a handy location and even color coded if necessary. . ..
Not without violating the purpose for a breaker . . . to protect wiring
that comes of a distribution bus. I've seen lots of breakers installed in
strange places with the notion that they double as circuit protection -AND-
switch . . .
If you want a trim disconnect SWITCH . . . by all means install one. If
the TRIM ARM pushbutton works for you . . . why not? But as soon as the
breaker gets installed in places other than the breaker patch, you've
bypassed part of the wiring it's supposed to protect. This is one of the
reasons I dislike switch-breakers . . . if you have a breaker patch on the
right side and a row of switch-breakers on the left side, you now have TWO
bus bars with the attendant increase in "unprotected" high fault current
wiring.
The out of reach fuse blocks will be STC/PMA'd on a variety of aircraft
by the end of next year. There's been so much "you'd never get that
certified" kinds of reactions that I've decided to do just that, get
the system certified. If your airplane were fitted with the remotely
mounted fuse blocks, hot bus wiring would be nearly zero length and the
"pull to disable" breaker you describe would be a simple toggle switch
which, if it works for you is great!
>Keep pounding away Bob! I value your opinion, you
>put out some great stuff but I think I like this one the way I did it.
> Ryan RV4131RB
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Failure Tolerant Design . . . |
>
>Bob,
> I think you missed my point. You need to seperate the pilot from the
>designer. Once the airplane is flying, with you at the controls, and a
>failure occurs, you have to deal with it in real time as a pilot, not a
>system designer.
I guess I don't understand. Pilots are already so separated from
the designers that features coming down the line in brand new
airplanes (IMHO) border on incompetency . . . were it not for the
fact that regulation and corporate lethargy keep otherwise capable
designers from doing their jobs.
> I agree that as homebuilders we have every opportunity to design problems
>out of our airplanes before they ever fly. In spite of our best efforts
>design errors occur. You yourself described such an error earlier in this
>thread (I believe it was in reference to an alternator field fuse which was
>undersized, although I cant recall the details). If a system is under
>engineered or improperly designed or constructed and is protected by an
>inaccessible fuse, if/when that system fails in flight the pilot must live
>without that system. . .
No, you missed the point I've been trying to make. Here's a tidbit from an
article I'm working on . . .
There are thousands of parts on single engine airplanes that have
been shook, baked, spec'd, conformity controlled, pma'd, stc'd, tso'd,
ad nauseum. Does that mean the part will never break? Of course not.
Airplane parts break every day. If airplane parts never broke, FBO
shops would be out of business . . . As experimental airplane builders
and drivers our options for development and maintenance of a comfortable
flying machine are much better but some advice from the heart goes as
follows:
Nuckolls' first law of airplane systems design sez: "Things break"
The second: "Systems shall be designed so that when things break,
no immediate hazard is created."
The third: "Things needed for comfortable termination of flight
require backup or special consideration to insure operation and
availabilty"
The forth: "Upgrading the quality, reliability, longevity, or
capability of a part shall be because you're tired of replacing it
or want some new feature, not because it damned near got you killed."
Notice that the second law makes no mention as to whether the part broke
because of poor design, mechanic's incompetence or perhaps it was just
worn out . . . .
The gentleman who mentioned our decision to up-size the fuse in the
alternator b-lead fuse kit seemed to be rather upset that such a decision
was even necesary . . . I'd asked him if he'd never in his life revised
a design decision for the sake of some feedback from the field that
indicated
it was needed. The IMPORTANT point of this discussion is not that the
fuse blew but that it SHOULDN'T MATTER . . . .
> I cant speak for you, or any of the other builders on this list, but I can
>look back on the work that I have done on my RV to date and say that I am
>not infallible. The potential for electrical system design errors in my
>aircraft definitely exists but with help from others such as yourself I hope
>to minimize those errors.
Hey, as members of the human race, we're all stuck with certain realities.
That's why I think it's better to assume that everything you use in the
airplane is going to break. Now, what (if anything) needs to be done about
it? My products are under constant evaluation for ways to improve
performance,
reduce costs, reduce size, or accomodate some unforseen circumstance
discovered
in the field. The electrical equipment on current certified airplanes was
the best we knew how to do in 1960, today it's a GROSS error in judgment
that the same equipment is still in place . . . but except for
certification
and corporate timidity, Cessna could be building as good an airplane as
you are.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | Re: 6-32 Acron Nuts |
Carroll Bird wrote:
>
> I have a friend who has built an RV-4. He used 6-32 screws to
> fasten the canopy to the frame. On these screws he used a nut that looks
> like an acorn nut, but has a red plastic center for the cap. I also seen
> a -4 at Kerville last week that had the same nuts. If anyone knows what
> I am writing about, and where I can purchase them, would you please let
> me know?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Carroll Bird, -4 #3919 Working on cowl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
Chris -
I did all the skins without using any backdrilling. Instead, I marked the
skeleton with rivet locations, transferred them to thin plastic film placed
where the skin will be, removed the film, taped the skins down, put the
film back in place on the outside of the skins (some sort of index marks
are needed to insure that the film goes back into place), and drilled
through the film, skins and skeleton. Check location on the back side
often. Works great, not my idea. Polyester film (mylar) works, but any
relatively inelastic film works. More than one way to skin a plane.
Remember to tape the J stringers to the skin, as they will wander off
location. Aft bulkheads also.
Alex Peterson 6A top fwd structure
> I'm looking for suggestions on back drilling the aft fuselage turtle
> deck skins. How have others done it? Did you have to crawl into the
> fuselage? and if so, how did you prevent bending the bulkhead webs and
> stringers? Right now I'm thinking I may have to throw some pillows in
> there and stuff my 12 year old in with a drill!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Check it out (chatter) |
<< I ordered (by phone conversation) a set of gear leg fairings from Mark
("Check Six") and did NOT send him a check. >>
Then it should be amended to "Checkless Six", "No Check Six" or "Check you
later Six", right?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Come on now. Its time to give a little. The breaker for your electric trim
need not be mounted amongst all the others. >>
The problem with taking any intractable stand on anything, is that you can
never give up and you can never rest, even if in your mind there is no
question that you are right. It's a true believer attitude, like the
Highlander saying "there can only be one".
Bob is among the top two or three contributers on the list, but it might be
time to admit that there is really nothing wrong with breakers, it's just
that in his mind they do not justify the cost. Let's just assume that
tomorrow ACS got such a good deal from Potter&Brumfield that they could price
breakers less than fuses. Would that change the equation in anyone's mind?
IMO this issue is not about what works, it's about simple economics and I'm
not a bean counter. Put me down as a breaker supporter.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: server going berserk?? |
Scott,
Me too
Me too
Me too
----------
> From: scott <mwt.net!acepilot(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: server going berserk??
> Date: Friday, October 24, 1997 11:56 AM
>
>
> This morning I got 170 messages, and I had just checked in last night
> before going to bed. I found a lot of messages that had no text with
> them and appeared to be duplicate entries? Anybody else concur?
> Scott(setting up shop & tools for RV-4 project)
>
> --
> Gotta Fly or
> Gonna Die !
> --Ask me about my
> Aeronca Super Chief--
>
> amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
> RV-4!
> No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | morristec(at)ICDC.COM |
| Subject: | fiberglass scraps anyone??? |
R
RV>Does anybody have a few scraps of Vans' fiberglass pieces? Stuff lying
RV>in your trash that you cut off from the raw cowl or rudder fairing or
RV>whatever?
RV>If anybody can stick a couple of scrap pieces in the mail to me I would
RV>really appreciate it. I already have samples made up of auto parts store
RV>type epoxy layups, however, I'd like to test with various types of
RV>glass.
Dear Andy,
Glass is glass, it will all test the same. The resin system will
however make a great difference. I've done some of this kind of testing
for FAA certification, and the resin type can be critical. I think that
Van's vendor uses plain old general purpose polyester resin.
Dan Morris,
Morristec(at)icdc.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shortened Seat Backs |
Dennis,
I think it's a great idea. Every building I've spoken with has been very
happy. I wish I'd done it on my -6. Access would be greatly improved.
Putting small suitcases, etc was always a hassle with the flip up canopy. I
don't know if there would be as much benefit with a slider.
Rick McBride
rv-6 N523JC sold
rv-8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | morristec(at)ICDC.COM |
RV>Hello out there!
RV>Is it just me, or are the rest of you getting a lot of this:
RV><<< No Message Collected >>>
RV>I'm also getting three and four of some messages that are several days old.
Me to!!
Dan Morris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: server going berserk?? |
scott wrote:
>
>
> This morning I got 170 messages, and I had just checked in last night
> before going to bed. I found a lot of messages that had no text with
> them and appeared to be duplicate entries? Anybody else concur?
> Scott(setting up shop & tools for RV-4 project)
>
> --I had 116 messages, and most had no text. As for the duplicate entries
I've been getting those for a four or five weeks. I don't know if it's
my Compaq or the list
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143C
Getting close to cranking this machine up. ( after 4 1/2 years )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | morristec(at)ICDC.COM |
| Subject: | operational speeds |
Andy,
RV>First, what is the power off best glide speed in an RV, particularly an
RV>RV-6A?
Typically for low speed airplanes (low mach airfoils) the glide speed
that will cover the most distance for altitude lost (L/D) is 1.3 times
the stall speed. This applies for flaps up (i.e. 55 *1.3 = 71.5 mph, or
flaps down (46* 1.3= 59.8 mph). This number is usually no more than 1 to 2 %
off. BTW thats where the final approach speed of 1.3 Vso come from.
How would the actual glide angle at that speed compare to an
RV>engine off condition as compared to an engine at near idle?
A rotating prop presents higher drag than a stopped prop. Therefore,
the stopped prop will glide further.
RV>Second, regarding Vans Vne of 210 mph. should I regard this as true or
RV>indicated airspeed. In other words, at my normal flying altitudes of
RV>11,000 - 12,000' (high country of Colorado), approximately 180 mph
RV>indictated equates to 210 true. At this altitude, should I consider the
RV>180 indicated as my actual Vne?
Your question is a good one. I have read the other comments about dynamic
pressure and agree, with exception that dynamic pressure is rarely the limiting
factor for low speed airplanes. Usually structural load limits (relative to
gust factors or control movements) or flutter are. These aren't necessarily
directly related to CAS. A good example is that many certified
airplanes have a decreasing VNE in CAS as altitude increases. Often
service ceilings in jets are determined by the decreased margin between
stall speed (directly related to CAS) and VNE (sometimes directly
related to TAS). If Bill Benedict is listening, maybe he can
get Van's answer to the design's limiting factor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Re: server going berserk?? |
Hi Scott,
I last checked my messages at about 6pm yesterday. Had 220 this am. Yes,
many were there more than onceanad some 2 or 3x. A number had only the
header material - no message. Poor Matt D. is probably tearing his hair out
about now.
BFK
>
>This morning I got 170 messages, and I had just checked in last night
>before going to bed. I found a lot of messages that had no text with
>them and appeared to be duplicate entries? Anybody else concur?
>Scott(setting up shop & tools for RV-4 project)
>
>--
>Gotta Fly or
>Gonna Die !
>--Ask me about my
> Aeronca Super Chief--
>
>amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
>RV-4!
>No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
>
>
>
>
>
Bruce Knoll
RV6AQ
Empennage ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> I want to put an automatic pilot in my RV6A and would appreciate any
> comments good or bad with auto pilot models put in an RV. I have the
> broshures on Navaid, but do not have any feedback of its performance. I have
> also seen STEC in Aircraft Spruce.
>
> My use of an auto pilot will be for high altitude flight when using the GPS
> in direct mode. Thats pretty much all I want it for.
>
> All comments greatly appreciated !!!!
>
> Scott Johnson / Chicago : waiting impatiently for my new hartzell constant
> speed prop !
Scott
I'm in the same boat you are! I talked to several people who have
the Navaid and the all liked it. I don't know if I have ever seen an
STEC in an RV, this may be a result of the cost difference between
the two.
I think a single axis auto pilot that would track a GPS would be
great on my hops between Florida and North Carolina. Of course
thats assuming I ever get the damn thing in the air.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Is it me? Duplicate messages |
>>
>>Hello out there!
>>
>>Is it just me, or are the rest of you getting a lot of this:
>>
>><<< No Message Collected >>>
>>
>>I'm also getting three and four of some messages that are several days =
old. =20
>>
>>I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm missing out on a lot of good =
information.
>>
>>I will post this only once, so if it shows up several times it's not =
me!
>>
>>Tim - Pittsburgh
>>
>>
Nope, not jus you, I got 225 messages that were largely duplicates...
bill
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of interesting stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html =20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: server going berserk?? |
scott wrote:
>
>
> This morning I got 170 messages, and I had just checked in last night
> before going to bed. I found a lot of messages that had no text with
> them and appeared to be duplicate entries? Anybody else concur?
Yep.
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>Two quick questions for those with more RV time than my initial 20
hours.
>
(Snip)
>Second, regarding Vans Vne of 210 mph. should I regard this as true or
>indicated airspeed. In other words, at my normal flying altitudes of
>11,000 - 12,000' (high country of Colorado), approximately 180 mph
>indictated equates to 210 true. At this altitude, should I consider the
>180 indicated as my actual Vne?
>
>Andy
The Vne is based on indicated airspeed.
The Mach number is related to the true airspeed. :-) (I wish we had to
worry about the critical mach number.)
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
RV-3 Maroon Marauder
LOM engine
Electric Variable Pitch Ivoprop Magnum High Pitch Prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee, let me count the ways |
Ohhh man, was this a sight for sore eyes to read!
Thank you Austin for explaining to these folks that painting your own is
not a big scary deal. I never could figure out how someone could spend
2000 hours building an airplane and pay someone else to spray it. Yes, I
have painted a few things, four or five cars, but, the first thing I laid
paint on was not my first project either.
Just like you did with the metal work, you practice on something first.
You probably didn't hammer your first rivit into the HS.
Your first dimple was probably not in the skin.
The first metal you cut is probably not on the airplane.
Plenty of How-To books on spraying paint, some of the paint companies even
hand them out for free (ok it has been a while since I got free how-to
stuff from Ditzler), the info is out there.
Miss-mixed paint is cheap at the local paint mixer. They are happy to get
a couple of bucks for it rather than throw it away (they even get to sell
you some thinner). Get some scraps and see for yourself what it looks like
when you put too much paint on and not enough and when it is about right.
When you get the small stuff down go buy a slick sheet of particle board
and stand it up on edge. If you can spray this without any runs or sags
from top to bottom don't be timid about shooting your plane. Now you are
ready to paint and your education cost you about a hundred bucks.
One of the guys in the Home Wing just finished his 6A with some help from
his brother. It does help to have two people when you paint something like
an airplane. Lots of separate parts and dragging the hose around
everywhere. Refilling the gun all the time etc. Yeah, you'll end up with
a few bugs or a run here or there. Sand them out and shoot it again.
Now, you have saved enough money for almost that constant speed prop you
wanted
or an extra radio or two
or 2000 gallons of gas to go into your fresh RV that you finished yourself!
Standing down now...
..and welcoming any comments.
Mike McGee jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com N6358G
A ship in port is safe but that is not what ships are for..
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Check it out (chatter) |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>
><< I ordered (by phone conversation) a set of gear leg fairings from
>Mark
> ("Check Six") and did NOT send him a check. >>
>
>Then it should be amended to "Checkless Six", "No Check Six" or "Check
>you
>later Six", right?
>
>-GV
Check Six is correct.
That's the number of digits that Mark would really like to see filled out
on the check you send him.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>Hello
>I'm a french hombuilder, new on the list and my english is poor
>(sorry):-(
>I have bought a Lycoming O360A1AD for the RV4 I'm building (I LOVE
>this taildragger !)
>and the propeller wich was with it. They come from a Socata TB 10
>(french made plane).
>My problem is that this propeller ( c/s Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF )is 74.5
>inch dia. Vans
>told me that he never exceded 72 inch in dia. Has anybody on this list
>encounter the
>same problem ? And is it really a problem ?
>Many thanks
>ROLANDO Denis
>fuselage RV4 in progress
Hi Rolando and All,
I've flown a 76 inch diameter prop on my RV-3. I made three point
landings only when flying it. No wheel landings, and don't let it
bounce.
I heard that about one third of the RV-3's have damaged a prop on landing
(bad wheel landings and/or bounced landing). I wouldn't know about this
personnally. :-)
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Repair |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>I can't believe it, after almost 3 years and anywhere between 14000
>and
>18000 rivets, my faithful Taylor 2X gun, purchased new from Cleveland
>Aircraft Tools and well maintained, quit with only 3 rivets left to
>drive. I blows air but the hammer action won't work. I took it
>completely apart, including the trigger and cleaned and polished the
>piston and sleeves and all other parts and still can't get it to work.
>There was no rust or pitting or any signs of scoring.
>
>Any suggestions regarding repair or should I just buy a new one.
>--
>Chet Razer
>crazer(at)egyptian.net
Hi Chet and All,
Did you tapping the back of the gun on your workbench. The valve inside
can stick.
Air tool oil helps to keep this from happening. It has been the valve,
and not the piston, that was sticking on my rivet gun.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: HS rivet line centering] |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------181BE263B01
I sent this to the short list. Since the RV-6 & 8 tails are basicly the
same, I thought you RV-6 guys might be able to help.
--------------181BE263B01
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 20:49:07 -0400
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: HS rivet line centering
Hi guys,
It appears I can't send an email to the entire shortlist. I'm using
Netscape Mail 3.01.
When I click on the link on the shortlist address page, the Mail To box
fills up with email addresses. I've written the message twice. I click
send and the message shows up in my OUTBOX. When I click on SEND
MESSAGES IN OUTBOX the message disappears. It doesn't show in the SENT
box. Maybe it's a limit on the number of recipients by my server
(Sprint) or because I don't have Netscape 4.0?
Anyway, I need advice. My HS is in the jig, everything is straight &
level. When I install the skins and cleco & clamp them on, all the
centerlines I've drawn show through the rivet holes EXCEPT the front
spar between the center ribs (HS 608) and the inner ribs (HS 405). The
rivet holes fade toward the rear of the front spar flange so that the
innermost rivets in that line are behind (or below as viewed in the jig)
the centerline by 1/8".
Now this still leaves me with the bare minimum 2X diameter edge distance
to the front spar flange edge. You could say "Good enough, just drill
it". I would like to do better than that if possible. I am considering
cutting the front flange off of the inner main ribs (HS 405) and
riveting a repair flange on each one. This way I can effectively shorten
the ribs by that 1/8" and get my rivet holes back on the centerline.
The plans call out a distance of 12 9/32" between the front and rear
spars. That is exactly what I have. I've measured everything till I was
crosseyed, and couldn't find any errors.
How critical is that 12 9/32" distance? Can I shorten it by an 1/8"? If
not, can I shorten it by a lesser amount? I would appreciate your imput,
ideas, etcetera. HELP!!!
This is the 3rd time typing this tome.
Charlie Kuss
scratching my head in
Boca Raton, Fl.
--------------181BE263B01--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Engine Momitor |
It is a great system. I love mine.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
Recently finished the installation of the *capstan motor* for the STEC
unit. High quality, good service. Plane still quite some time away from
flying.
The STEC will be a lot easier to install BEFORE the outboard top skin is
riveted in place. **Can** be done via access panel, but a I am sure that
will test your patience.
I like the "apparent" quality of the STEC and the fact that a "traditional"
turn coordinator also houses the computer.
James
RV6AQ ... Wings to be closed, soon.
<>
>
> I want to put an automatic pilot in my RV6A and would appreciate any
> comments good or bad with auto pilot models put in an RV. I have the
> broshures on Navaid, but do not have any feedback of its performance. I
have
> also seen STEC in Aircraft Spruce.
> <>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Failure Tolerant Design . . . |
On 25 Oct 97 at 15:53, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> The gentleman who mentioned our decision to up-size the fuse in the
> alternator b-lead fuse kit seemed to be rather upset that such a decision
> was even necesary . . .
Hmmm, wonder what I said that left that impression. My off-list 29
Aug Email to Bob (after he told me of the blown 70 amp fuses) said:
>This is some information I should have had when I made my tradeoff
>decisions designing my wiring system. I don't want to take the risk
>that this will happen to me even at the 80 amp level. I'll go with
>a 60 amp breaker, and reduce my load while charging a dead battery.
>Please cancel my order for the 70 amp fuse, but I still want the
>dimmer package I ordered (see original order at the end of this
>email).
My on-list discussion said:
>Bob had done the best design work he could, he proposed a design
>that a lot of people adopted (me included), and it turned out to
>have an unexpected problem. Unexpected things can happen in
>aircraft systems, and I believe in providing myself with the MOST
>options possible (breaker resets included), not the FEWEST
>possible (fuses out of reach, so live with the problem until >you
land). I've changed my design to include a breaker for the
>alternator output. It's a whole lot easier to reset the
>alternator breaker rather than having to replace a 70 (or 80) amp
>fuse that's been intentionally removed from the pilot's reach.
If I said anything that implied disapproval of Bob's decision to
redesign I apologize. I'll admit to having been peeved that the
INFORMATION about the blown fuses wasn't posted to the rv-list as it
became available (as far as I know). I felt (and still feel) that
real life field experience with the unit provides valuable
information to the electrical system designers (all of us builders).
In my case the information prompted a redesign of the alternator
protection circuit--after I'd already installed most of my wiring and
all of my breakers. : (
> I'd asked him if he'd never in his life revised
> a design decision for the sake of some feedback from the field
> that indicated it was needed.
Certainly--that's what we have to do if we care about our customers.
I think it's entirely appropriate that Bob did as well.
> The IMPORTANT point of this discussion is not
> that the fuse blew but that it SHOULDN'T MATTER . . . .
IMO it very much does matter that field experience shows that the
remotely mounted alternator fuse has blown in situations where no
electrical fault existed. That's real world information about real
world current levels that I used to determine whether to use the
remote fuse or an accessible breaker.
Respectfully,
Tim Lewis
RV-6A all loaded in a Ryder rental truck (whew!!!), preparing for
drive to Virginia.
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
San Antonio TX
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
I have some experience here and will share it.
>
>RV>First, what is the power off best glide speed in an RV, particularly an
>RV>RV-6A?
>
>Typically for low speed airplanes (low mach airfoils) the glide speed
>that will cover the most distance for altitude lost (L/D) is 1.3 times
>the stall speed. This applies for flaps up (i.e. 55 *1.3 = 71.5 mph, or
>flaps down (46* 1.3= 59.8 mph). This number is usually no more than 1 to 2 %
>off. BTW thats where the final approach speed of 1.3 Vso come from.
these numbers are not wrong but do not allow much error for the pucker
factor or the need to turn at the last minute because of hydro wires etc, I
would like to see a glide speed of 80 to 85. and only reduce it at on short
final. You can get distracted in this situation and the extra speed, while
in the air, will save your life.
>
>How would the actual glide angle at that speed compare to an
>RV>engine off condition as compared to an engine at near idle?
>
>A rotating prop presents higher drag than a stopped prop. Therefore,
>the stopped prop will glide further.
In an RV with a wood prop this answer is wrong, wrong, wrong. The pitch on
these props is very high and even at idle in the air they pull the plane
more then you would think, The airplane will stop a lot shorter then you
would think. There fore you should pick a field that is close to you. It
will come down a lot faster then you would have thought.
>
Tom Martin
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | Vne vs. top speed |
Here's a probably obvious question...In Van's info pack, it lists the
RV-4 "cruise (75% @ 8000') as 192" and "top speed of 204" when equipped
with 160 hp. Looking at the chart showing 3 different hp ratings, I see
3 different cruise speeds and 3 different top speeds. Is it safe to
assume that top speed is NOT Vne? I assume top speed is throttle balls
to the wall? I never see Vne listed as such. If top speed were the same
as Vne, the difference is so close that if I look at my map for 2 seconds
and go a bit nose down, I'd have 12 mph to red line and would probably
overshoot Vne a bit. So, where do I find the real Vne?
Scott (setting up shop & tools for RV-4)
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
<< (I wish we had to
worry about the critical mach number.) >>
Ever wish you'd built a BD-10J instead?
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com (Robert L Reeves) |
I have a RV-4 that I built and have been flying for 7 years with a Lyc
0-320 A1A and a Hartzell CS Prop HC-82XL-1B that is 73 inches long and
have never touched the tip of the prop yet, (knock on wood). But I do
remember worrying about the length when I started flying it, so if you do
decide to use yours, good luck and be careful.
Bob Reeves
Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4
Hidden River Airport,
Sarasota, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric trim, Alternative placement |
> I have been looking at placing my electric elevator trim servo in a
> location other than in the left elevator. I have the manual trim
> cable, have it routed and installed, but now think a better solution
> is to use the electric trim.
Warren,
Just curious what caused you to change course. Was it the slack in the
manual trim cable?
Joel Harding RV-8 ab320flyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric trim, Alternative placement |
> I have been looking at placing my electric elevator trim servo in a
> location other than in the left elevator. I have the manual trim
> cable, have it routed and installed, but now think a better solution
> is to use the electric trim.
Warren,
Just curious what caused you to change course. Was it the slack in the
manual trim cable?
Joel Harding RV-8 ab320flyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jdelveau6(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flap Installation |
Help...
I must be missing something, I have found a question from Randall
Henderson back in March '96 with exactly the same question that I now
have, but I have not found any reply to the question or other info to
help. The question:
How do you locate the three bearing blocks that hold the wd-613 electric
flap actuator arm? I have the EF kit from Van's and did get a plan
sheet EF6-1but I do not understand exactly what is meant by the "Long
Side" of the F-680 bearing block.
In Frank's notes (I think Gil Alexander wrote the EF section) It says
locate the wd-631 (613) by clamping the F-680 center block to the flange
of the F-605B (605A) 2" left of centerline. Should the 680 block set on
top of the flange? Does that provide clearance for skin or whatever else
might fit on top of the flange? How/where do the two outside blocks
EF-661 locate on the back of the F-605D parts. Are the EF-661 blocks
supposed to be jammed onto the wd-613 as far as they will go or is there
supposed to be some clearance? Is there a critical area at the outboard
ends of these blocks that should be used for there final location?
Well, you get the idea, I'm lost again. The EF6-1 drawing is nice but I
must be missing something, it just seems like there is not enough
information to locate the ef-661 parts on the F-605d side pieces and the
680 center block to the 605 bottom part.
-Jim Delveau (jdelveau6(at)juno.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-List:RV4 empennage HS410 |
I'm finishing up my RV4 empennage kit.
I have noticed in the fuselage plans that the HS front spar splice plate,
HS410 gets a bend to mate to the VS front spar. I see nothing in the
empennage plans about this bend. Does this get done at the time of
attachment and is it mentioned in the instructions ? I could not find any
mention of bending this plate anywhere.
I am learning to do a lot of figuring it out myself, but it would have been
nice to have done this bend before the HS was finished.
Mark McGee
RV4 empennage ... wings on order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Martin <execulink.com!fairlea(at)matronics.com>
Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: operational speeds
>these numbers are not wrong but do not allow much error for the pucker
>factor or the need to turn at the last minute because of hydro wires etc, I
>would like to see a glide speed of 80 to 85. and only reduce it at on short
>final. You can get distracted in this situation and the extra speed, while
>in the air, will save your life.
>>
>>How would the actual glide angle at that speed compare to an
>>RV>engine off condition as compared to an engine at near idle?
>>
>>A rotating prop presents higher drag than a stopped prop. Therefore,
>>the stopped prop will glide further.
>
>In an RV with a wood prop this answer is wrong, wrong, wrong. The pitch on
>these props is very high and even at idle in the air they pull the plane
>more then you would think, The airplane will stop a lot shorter then you
>would think. There fore you should pick a field that is close to you. It
>will come down a lot faster then you would have thought.
>>
> Tom Martin
>RV-4
>
Tom's comments are right on target. I too would use a higher speed for
glide. Another point to remember that max L/D goes up with gross weight.
(did you know gliders carry water ballast in races to increase this speed)
Tom's comments about the rotating prop are also exactly on target, but I
would like to expand one dimension. Comparing glide distance by
configuration from greatest to least. FWIW
1. C/S High Pitch (lever back) engine idling
2. Fixed pitch cruise (high pitch) engine idling
2.1. Fixed pitch climb (low pitch) engine idling
3. C/S prop feathered (from a multi-engine airplane) engine stopped (not
many of these)
4. Fixed or C/S prop engine stopped
5. C/S High pitch engine windmilling
6. Fixed pitch cruise windmilling
6.1 Fixed pitch climb windmilling
7. C/S Low Pitch (lever fwd) windmilling
The point of all this is (yes there is a reason) is to make some valuable
points.
#1 if you practice dead stick landings with the engine at idle, when it
really quits you will be in for a big (not pleasant) surprise! Been There
Done That! Fortunately lived to tell about it. (This is especially true if
you have a high pitch wood prop with the idle set up high to keep that high
compression engine idling with that tiny little wood prop, sound familiar)
#2 If you are in an airplane with a C/S prop and the fire goes out, pull
the prop back to low RPM, High Pitch. In a Cessna 182 it will take 250 fpm
off of your decent. Conversely if you are setting up to land and are
alittle high, (as you should be when the fire is out) when the runway (lucky
you) is made, push the prop forward. It is like you threw out a parachute.
Most of you already knew this, but I was flying with a Flight Instructor
recently who did not so I thought I would pass it along.
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal CFI
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
charset="iso-8859-1"
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Martin <execulink.com!fairlea(at)matronics.com>
Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: operational speeds
>these numbers are not wrong but do not allow much error for the pucker
>factor or the need to turn at the last minute because of hydro wires etc, I
>would like to see a glide speed of 80 to 85. and only reduce it at on short
>final. You can get distracted in this situation and the extra speed, while
>in the air, will save your life.
>>
>>How would the actual glide angle at that speed compare to an
>>RV>engine off condition as compared to an engine at near idle?
>>
>>A rotating prop presents higher drag than a stopped prop. Therefore,
>>the stopped prop will glide further.
>
>In an RV with a wood prop this answer is wrong, wrong, wrong. The pitch on
>these props is very high and even at idle in the air they pull the plane
>more then you would think, The airplane will stop a lot shorter then you
>would think. There fore you should pick a field that is close to you. It
>will come down a lot faster then you would have thought.
>>
> Tom Martin
>RV-4
>
Tom's comments are right on target. I too would use a higher speed for
glide. Another point to remember that max L/D goes up with gross weight.
(did you know gliders carry water ballast in races to increase this speed)
Tom's comments about the rotating prop are also exactly on target, but I
would like to expand one dimension. Comparing glide distance by
configuration from greatest to least. FWIW
1. C/S High Pitch (lever back) engine idling
2. Fixed pitch cruise (high pitch) engine idling
2.1. Fixed pitch climb (low pitch) engine idling
3. C/S prop feathered (from a multi-engine airplane) engine stopped (not
many of these)
4. Fixed or C/S prop engine stopped
5. C/S High pitch engine windmilling
6. Fixed pitch cruise windmilling
6.1 Fixed pitch climb windmilling
7. C/S Low Pitch (lever fwd) windmilling
The point of all this is (yes there is a reason) is to make some valuable
points.
#1 if you practice dead stick landings with the engine at idle, when it
really quits you will be in for a big (not pleasant) surprise! Been There
Done That! Fortunately lived to tell about it. (This is especially true if
you have a high pitch wood prop with the idle set up high to keep that high
compression engine idling with that tiny little wood prop, sound familiar)
#2 If you are in an airplane with a C/S prop and the fire goes out, pull
the prop back to low RPM, High Pitch. In a Cessna 182 it will take 250 fpm
off of your decent. Conversely if you are setting up to land and are
alittle high, (as you should be when the fire is out) when the runway (lucky
you) is made, push the prop forward. It is like you threw out a parachute.
Most of you already knew this, but I was flying with a Flight Instructor
recently who did not so I thought I would pass it along.
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal CFI, MEI
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6 Fuselage Jig for rent, in CNY |
I have a heavy duty, 3" angle iron built, RV6 fuselage jig for rent.
Currently the 3rd RV6 is being built up on it, by a "renter", I say "renter"
cause we were all unknown to one another and they bravely rented it, sight
unseen off the rv-list just like this attempt. And since it's a small RV
world I really consider them friends now. I've met them again at RV forum in
Oswego this past Sept. and so far they've had glowing endorsemet of it.
We'd estmiate It will be available approximately 2/98 and either in
Poughkeepsie NY, or near Syracuse NY, which ever is closer for you to pick
up. Keep in mind you might just have to return to Syracuse NY upon your
completion, as that is its home.
I offer this now in case you desire to see it in action and we could plan it
all out together.
I rent it for $100.00/six-eight months, we're flexible, with an additional
$250.00 refundable security deposit (upon its return) on it. You provide
transport both directions. It fits in a full sized P/U (no cap), once folded
up. You'll promise to keep it inside, clean and atttempt to keep it free of
paint sprays.
You will find it very heavy and stays put, you'll love standing on the sides
and working on your plane. You'll also like the bulkhead mounting wooden
plattens that we used to allow the bulk head rings to grow or shrink to make
perfect straight (no WoW's) in side walls.
Any interest, if for 2/98 or when ever, even later, drop me a direct E'mail
line and we'll attempt to schedule it all out. Like any RV tool I don't
realy want to sell it, and I desire to keep it in the family, it's to good to
wait around for my next build (gosh what am I saying I still got 1000 hours
to go on my first one). So we'll justify keeping it by renting it. ; )
Please notify: David McManmon at McManD(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee, let me count the ways |
----------
> From: Michael McGee <teleport.com!jmpcrftr(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: How do I paint thee, let me count the ways
> Date: Saturday, October 25, 1997 9:46 PM
>
>
> Ohhh man, was this a sight for sore eyes to read!
>
> Plenty of How-To books on spraying paint, some of the paint companies
even
> hand them out for free (ok it has been a while since I got free how-to
> stuff from Ditzler), the info is out there.
> Mike McGee jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com N6358G
> A ship in port is safe but that is not what ships are for..
>
Mike,
I've been trying unsuccessfully for three years to get How-To books from
the paint companies at OSH and Sun&Fun to no avail. I'd sure appreciate
some good references. I have "Aircraft Painting and Finishing" (the red
how-to books from the EAA bookstore) but it is worthless to me as a
homebuilder. I have twice written DuPont for info but have received
nothing useful. Where and how did you get your books?
Thanks.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV4 Canopy - fitting side skins - help!! |
I need some advice from some of the oldbees on the procedure you used to
fit the canopy side skins to the canopy, canopy frame and fuselage.
I checked the archives and did not find any relevant information for
canopy assembly techniques. Quite a few postings there relating to
velcrowing an axe to your helmet so you could chop your way out if need be.
Two things seem obvious. From the number of good looking canopies out there,
this is something that definately can be done. Second is that given the
compound nature of the curves it could be a real bear to get a good fit
between the skin and canopy. I am seeking suggestions. I would like to get
this right the first time. Due to number of replacement parts I have ordered,
I already qualify for Van's ten percent discount on my second aircraft and
I'm still building the first one!
I am assuming you start by aligning the bottom of the canopy side skin
with the fuselage top longeron with a slight overlap on the left entry side
and slightly above the hinge centerline on the right side.
- How did you determine where to put the bend (flange) in the canopy skin
and canopy?
- I have the flange bending device from Averys to use, but what technique
did you use to put the bend in initially. Did you start with a gentle offset
the whole length of the canopy side skin and work it in gradually? How did
you determine the trim line of the canopy side skin at the canopy before
bending?
- How did you complete the end on the skins at the trailing edge of the
canopy? The trailing edge of the canopy glass extends well beyond the canopy
frame.
- Any other pieces of advice that will help avoid some grief and make for a
better completed product will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for your help!
Tom Brown - RV4 fuselage canopy
RV4Brown(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6-32 Acron Nuts |
>I have a friend who has built an RV-4. He used 6-32 screws to
>fasten the canopy to the frame. On these screws he used a nut that looks
>like an acorn nut, but has a red plastic center for the cap. I also seen
>a -4 at Kerville last week that had the same nuts. If anyone knows what
>I am writing about, and where I can purchase them, would you please let
>me know?
Try Small Parts, Incorporated. 1-800-220-4242 part no. O-CNX-632
are 5/16" across the flats and $9.32 for package of 25. This
is a stainless part. For nickle plated brass order O-CNB-632
at $5.33 per pkg of 25.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
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| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:RV4 empennage HS410 |
aol.com!FMark40(at)matronics.com wrote:
snipped
> I have noticed in the fuselage plans that the HS front spar splice plate,
> HS410 gets a bend to mate to the VS front spar.
Mark,
Thanks for the idea. I was mainly concerned with fitting the HS to the
fuselage. I hadn't even considered it's relationship to the VS. That's
one more thing to ponder.
> I see nothing in the empennage plans about this bend. Does this get done at
the time of attachment and is it mentioned in the instructions ? I could not
find any
> mention of bending this plate anywhere.
The HS 810 (the RV-8 version of your HS-410) is made from 6061 angle.
Therefore I ASSUME that this is already done on the RV-8. That's two
things to ponder.
> I am learning to do a lot of figuring it out myself, but it would have been
> nice to have done this bend before the HS was finished.
I'm trying to find out what grief moving the front spar back 1/8" will
cause me. We're in the same boat, so to speak. Thanks again
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Any opinions on the need for alternator cooling, (blast tube from baffleing)
>? If it is required, what is the best location for the tube? (Front or rear
>of alt)
>
>Any suggestions would be appreciated.
If you use a modern alternator with built-in fans, I don't
think you're going to need any additional cooling provisions.
A number of airplanes I saw at OSH used older machines
originally fitted with an external fan behind the pulley.
Someone mistakenly decided that since the fan was being
rotated backwards from it's original automotive application
that the fan should be removed. Not so. The centrifical
fans loose only a few percent of their effectiveness by
rotating "backwards" . . . and in any case, much better
than no fan at all. Another misconception in alternator
installations is that rotating them fast is inherently bad,
which is true if they're not ballanced well. There's
an oversized pully offered from several alternator suppliers
to "slow down" their installations to keep the bearings
from damage.
At B&C, we ballance to about 10x better specs than the
brand new alternators come to us. We leave the small pulley
on. You get full output capability at taxi speeds and
it cools better in the air. Ballance is VERY important.
B&C's less than 5 failures per thousand systems over the
past 5 years is a demonstration of that rquirement.
I think most builders are not adding extra cooling provisions
for alternators but on the other hand, I'm wondering if
anyone has DATA upon which to base a quantitative analysis
for their decision. If anyone would like to do some hot
Vy climb tests on theri RV's alterntor with thermocouples
installed, I'd be pleased to provide the equipment.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
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| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Bob is among the top two or three contributers on the list, but it might be
>time to admit that there is really nothing wrong with breakers, it's just
>that in his mind they do not justify the cost. Let's just assume that
>tomorrow ACS got such a good deal from Potter&Brumfield that they could price
>breakers less than fuses. Would that change the equation in anyone's mind?
> IMO this issue is not about what works, it's about simple economics and I'm
>not a bean counter. Put me down as a breaker supporter.
Economics is but one factor and IMHO the least important one. If breakers
are installed and IGNORED while the pilot gets on with piloting things,
I'll agree, there's nothing wrong with breakers. When builders install
them
with the pre-coceived notion that there's some value to be derived from
having them accessable, they tend to shut down consideration of all the
other kinds of failures that can occur in the same systems that DO NOT
pop breakers. By putting breakers/fuses out of reach one is forced to
consider all the ramifications and move toward failure tolerant design
both in terms of cockpit hardware and pilot attitudes and training. Once
that's achieved . . . THEN dollars and panel space considerations become
important but not before.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
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| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Failure Tolerant Design . . . |
<199710231513.IAA02499(at)manta.nosc.mil>
>Hmmm, wonder what I said that left that impression. My off-list 29
>Aug Email to Bob (after he told me of the blown 70 amp fuses) said:
>
>>This is some information I should have had when I made my tradeoff
>>decisions designing my wiring system. I don't want to take the risk
>>that this will happen to me even at the 80 amp level. I'll go with
>>a 60 amp breaker, and reduce my load while charging a dead battery.
>
>>Please cancel my order for the 70 amp fuse, but I still want the
>>dimmer package I ordered (see original order at the end of this
>>email).
I'm sorry, but I didn't get your off-list e-mail . . . you might
repeat it to deanna(at)dtc.net . . . the netsite order system is
set up to go to her mailbox. It's safer going that route than ending
up on mine with 300+ other pieces/day.
>
>My on-list discussion said:
>
>If I said anything that implied disapproval of Bob's decision to
>redesign I apologize. I'll admit to having been peeved that the
>INFORMATION about the blown fuses wasn't posted to the rv-list as it
>became available (as far as I know). I felt (and still feel) that
>real life field experience with the unit provides valuable
>information to the electrical system designers (all of us builders).
>In my case the information prompted a redesign of the alternator
>protection circuit--after I'd already installed most of my wiring and
>all of my breakers. : (
I wouldn't have interpreted it as disapproval so much as disappointment
but in any case, I wasn't trying to yank your chain.
>
>> I'd asked him if he'd never in his life revised
>> a design decision for the sake of some feedback from the field
>> that indicated it was needed.
>
>Certainly--that's what we have to do if we care about our customers.
>I think it's entirely appropriate that Bob did as well.
>
>> The IMPORTANT point of this discussion is not
>> that the fuse blew but that it SHOULDN'T MATTER . . . .
>
>IMO it very much does matter that field experience shows that the
>remotely mounted alternator fuse has blown in situations where no
>electrical fault existed. That's real world information about real
>world current levels that I used to determine whether to use the
>remote fuse or an accessible breaker.
But Tim, WHY did it blow when no fault existed? The laws of
physics don't get rewritten to accomodate our uncertainties
and fears. This is the big difference between our airplanes
and the certified world. We can (and should) deduce the reasons
for any failure, and redesign as appropriate. Carve any design
in stone and in 30 years it will be as bad as a Cessna. And
again, I'll ask you to consider (not necessarily for the list or
for me, but yourself) what are the consequences for your alternator
quitting at ANY time for ANY reason of which there are many?
That fuse rating has evolved in response to new data. We as
pilots need to evolve too if we're going to take advantage of
advanced designs we can produce.
I'm considering the following "warranty" statment for our
on-line catalog:
"The AeroElectric Connection absolutely guarantees that every
part in this catalog is going to fail. Having said that,
let us add that our products are designed and selected from the
most cost effective technolgies we can find. Further, we stand
ready to upgrade any product at any time we have an opportunity
or need to do so. But if you purchase anything from us with the
expectation that because we're offering "airplane parts" that
somehow they are magically endowed with immortality, please
seek to buy your components elsewhere. We believe it's likely
that everything we sell will last the lifetime of your airplane.
If you're dissatisfied with any product for any reason, please
return it for a full refund. If you find a vendor of similar
products who (for what we assume is a nominal increase in price)
offers parts that never fail, please let us know who they are . ."
>RV-6A all loaded in a Ryder rental truck (whew!!!), preparing for
>drive to Virginia.
Drive safe my friend . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
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| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee |
from: Don Jordan, RV-6A,
writes:
>but I bought a Hobby Air and it was like standing in a cool fresh ocean
breeze. No >odor and full protection.
What is a Hobby air?
I am working on my left wing now. I would like to prime & fill the plane
& then have a professional shoot it. I am using Dupont Vari-Prime Self
etching primer.
Ugliest color green that exist. What should I use as a primer for the
outside of the skin that would be compatible with the polyurethanes or
the arcylic lacers?
Don Jordan, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee |
juno.com!donspawn(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I am working on my left wing now. I would like to prime & fill the plane
> & then have a professional shoot it. I am using Dupont Vari-Prime Self
> etching primer.
> Ugliest color green that exist. What should I use as a primer for the
> outside of the skin that would be compatible with the polyurethanes or
> the arcylic lacers?
>
> Don Jordan, RV-6A
>
Don
If you are going to have a professional paint your airplane I would
not prime the exterior, let him do it and decide what primer
to use based on the type of paint he will be using.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:RV4 empennage HS410 |
Hi Mark,
I see you are building a RV4. The planes on my RV6 show that there is a
"attach plate F681" that has the bend in it. The VS spar has no bend. my
drawings 34 and 47 show this. I suspect your plans may be similar to
mine.
cecil hatfield
>
>I have noticed in the fuselage plans that the HS front spar splice
>plate,
>HS410 gets a bend to mate to the VS front spar. I see nothing in the
>empennage plans about this bend. Does this get done at the time of
>attachment and is it mentioned in the instructions ? I could not find
>any
>mention of bending this plate anywhere.
>
>I am learning to do a lot of figuring it out myself, but it would have
>been
>nice to have done this bend before the HS was finished.
>
>Mark McGee
>RV4 empennage ... wings on order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Making your own baffles ? |
Should I open this hornet's nest ? Why would anyone in his right mind want
to make his own baffles ? Well, how would you like to trade $180 or so for
$180 worth of gas to fly by using your own skills ? O.K., I know this is
not for everyone and that is alright. To each his own and let us all choose
to do what makes us comfortable and happy while building our RVs. I elected
to make my own baffles for several reasons. Among them being that Van
supplies very good templates in the drawings, he did it for a reason, why
waste them ? Also, I had many rainy nights where TV was just mind rot and I
spent the time proving to myself once again that I could do these
detestable and difficult jobs if I just tried.
I found that Tony Bingelis's books were a constant help and making the
baffles and clecoing them one piece at a time onto the engine began to look
just like Van's in the builder's manual. When you put the top cowl on and
shine a light in there and see what clearances you need, you do the very
same cut and trim and fit as you would when you purchase the whole thing
together. It didn't take all that long and I won't lie and say it was super
fun the whole way, but it was NOT hard and I would do it again in a
minute, only this time, I would build a plenum.
No more cowl rise in flight where there is no hinge. etc. Just wanted to
say that homebuilders underestimate themselves and what they feel is a task
beyond them. Me ?, I am scared of lots of things, electricity, MEK,
Acetone, Fiberglass, canopies, nose wheels, cops, husbands coming home
early, etc.
but all of homebuilding is a challenge and it is rewarding to find some
things in yourself that you never knew you were capable of doing until you
tried. This is the age of discovery. Discover yourself. People around you
may look at you in a new light and all from making your own baffles.
I leave you with a quote which I have always felt was beautifully
expressive and almost poetic. It was from a man who never built a thing in
his life and had no bent for tools and creativity.. upon looking at the
finished product of his entirely hand built airplane, no kit then,.. he
paused and gazed lovingly at what he had just done as you would when your
beautiful painting is finished and said, and I quote, " The airplane has
meant even more to me than I thought it would when I was building it. While
building I insulated myself against too-high expectations, for fear of
disappointment. I tend to take the plane for granted now. But from time to
time, I break out of the top of the clouds on an IFR climb and, looking
back over my shoulders, I seem to see the airplane sliding along close to
the clouds at a terrific clip. At those moments I get a sense of its speed
and beauty, as though I were racing along beside it, looking on. It
is-absent the novels and poems that I never wrote, the paintings I did not
paint, absent all the things I once thought important and imagined that I
was destined to do- the only beautiful thing I have ever
created"...........Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee, let me count the ways |
----------
> From: Dennis Persyk <worldnet.att.net!dpersyk(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: How do I paint thee, let me count the ways
> Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 8:23 AM
>
> > Ohhh man, was this a sight for sore eyes to read!
> > Plenty of How-To books on spraying paint, some of the paint companies
> even
> > hand them out for free (ok it has been a while since I got free how-to
> nothing useful. Where and how did you get your books?
Dennis,
I bought no books, but asked a lot of questions from the guys
who sold me the paint. Now, I did this because they had airplane pictures
on the wall and also supplied to major airlines and helicopter outfits.
Further, some of these old guys had been painters for 40 years. If you want
details, send me a note and I will help you out. I do not know about HVLP
and properties of ALL the paints, but I can tell you what I learned from
asking, making notes , and doing. It is NOT hard and I think the greatest
thing to learn is to not get excited and go too fast and just cool out and
watch what is happening and go have a coffee between coats. I was so wired
I was shaking the gun. Really. As Michael said, you can teach yourself on
junk and you can do it. I will help if I can...................Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
Scott,
I have flown with the navaid in my SIX for about 300 hours and It is a very
good unit considering the performance, price and ease of installation. It
tracks electronic nav signals (loran/gps) very well as well as localizer
signals.It really comes in handy on longer trips where it is easy to get
miles off coures while sightseeing. It handles turbulence fairly well, and is
easilly fine tuned to your aircraft with adjustment pots on the faceplate.
If you want a simple light weight unit that performs well, this is a good
bang for the buck.
Bill Mahoney
RV-6 N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vne vs. top speed |
Is it safe to
>assume that top speed is NOT Vne?
Vne as published is never exceed speed as was tested by Van's
Aircraft for any flutter minus a percentage for safety. Top speed is
determined by using full power at the best altitude in straight and level
for one aircraft and only that aircraft. Each of ours may be different
according to how well we build them. You may set your own Vne speed by
testing for flutter at ever higher speeds. But here are some big holes to
fall into in that type of testing. Not my personal desire to do.
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pickling advice |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>I am storing my engine(lycoming IO-360).
>What I have done so far is:
>pulled plugs and cranked engine to get oil circulated throughout
>sprayed LPS 3 in the cylinders
>filled with oil - 16 quarts so far. objective is to cover cam in
>oil(using shell 15-50)
Hi Shelby. I'd recommend not using "real" oil for this procedure. I
contacted Lyc about it, and they said to fill it up with the cheapest
auto oil I could find. My 0-320 ended up taking over 30 qts before it
topped out. It may have been as much as 36, I sort of lost count... I
found some stuff called "Flag" automotive oil, it was around .59/qt.
Sure beats $3+/qt.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building RV8 in garage/in hanger |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>My wife is not sympathetic to the idea of me using the garage.
>Several builders have advised me that building in the garage
>will go faster than building at the airport (8
>miles away). I am trying to quantify this. I think a lot of time
>will involve studying the plans, which I can do at home.
>Can anyone offer me some estimates on the relative amounts of time
>these alternatives would take?
The time your project will take is several orders of magnitude greater
than the distance from your home to your workspace. There IS a lot of
time spent studying plans, but you will spend a lot of that study time
referring from the plans, to the physical parts (many of which are stuck
on the airplane) back to the plans... Plus the tool you need to fix the
screen door will ALWAYS be at the hangar, and the critical piece of
airplane that completely stops forward building process will ALWAYS be on
top the computer where you left it while posting a question to the RV
list... Go ahead, ask me how I know this stuff. :-O
There are also many times when there is just enough motivation to walk 15
paces to the garage, but no where near enough to hop in the car.
I built my tail and wings in a spare bedroom, stored the HS up against a
wall in the living room while building the wings, (very understanding
wife) and built the fuse in the garage. I didn't move anything to the
airport until it was ready to become one big piece, and things took MUCH
longer after that.
My advice is bribe your wife with any reasonable or unreasonable means to
let you use the garage.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vne vs. top speed |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
> Vne as published is never exceed speed as was tested by Van's
> Aircraft for any flutter minus a percentage for safety.
While compliance with FAR 23 is not required for Experimental,
Amateur Built aircraft, it does define the term Vne. I do not
know if Van's follows the FAA convention when publishing Vne.
23.1505 Airspeed limitations.
(a) The never exceed speed Vne must be established so that it is -
(1) Not less than 0.9 times the minimum value of Vd allowed
under 23.335; and
(2) Not more than the lesser of -
(i) 0.9 Vd established under 23.335; or
(ii) 0.9 times the maximum speed shown under 23.251.
23.335 Design airspeeds.
Except as provided in paragraph (a)(4) of this section, the selected
design airspeeds are equivalent airspeeds (EAS).
(a) Design cruising speed, Vc. For Vc the following apply:
(1) Vc (in knots) may not be less than -
(i) 33 W/S (for normal, utility, and commuter category
airplanes) {Note: According to the FAA, this should read "33 * sqrt
(W/S)...". The square root was inadvertently dropped at Amdt. 23-34. -
Ed.}; and
(ii) 36 * sqrt (W/S) (for acrobatic category airplanes).
(2) For values of W/S more than 20, the multiplying factors may be
decreased linearly with W/S to a value of 28.6 where W/S = 100.
(3) Vc need not be more than 0.9 Vh at sea level.
(4) At altitudes where an Md is established, a cruising speed Mc
limited by compressibility may be selected.
(b) Design dive speed Vd. For Vd, the following apply:
(1) Vd/Md may not be less than 1.25 Vc/Mc; and
(2) With Vc min, the required minimum design cruising speed, Vd
(in knots) may not be less than -
(i) 1.40 Vc min (for normal and commuter category airplanes);
(ii) 1.50 Vc min (for utility category airplanes); and
(iii) 1.55 Vc min (for acrobatic category airplanes).
(3) For values of W/S more than 20, the multiplying factors in
paragraph (b)(2) of this section may be decreased linearly with W/S to a
value of 1.35 where W/S = 100.
(4) Compliance with paragraphs (b) (1) and (2) of this section
need not be shown if Vd/Md is selected so that the minimum speed margin
between Vc/Mc and Vd/Md is the greater of the following:
(i) The speed increase resulting when, from the initial
condition of stabilized flight at Vc/Mc, the airplane is assumed to be
upset, flown for 20 seconds along a flight path 7.5 below the initial
path, and then pulled up with a load factor of 1.5 (0.5 g acceleration
increment). At least 75 percent maximum continuous power for
reciprocating engines, and maximum cruising power for turbines, or, if
less, the power required for Vc/Mc for both kinds of engines, must be
assumed until the pullup is initiated, at which point power reduction
and pilot controlled drag devices may be used.
(ii) Mach 0.05 (at altitudes where an Md is established).
(c) Design maneuvering speed Va. For Va, the following applies:
(1) Va may not be less than Vs * sqrt(n) where -
(i) Vs is a computed stalling speed with flaps retracted at the
design weight, normally based on the maximum airplane normal force
coefficients, C(na); and
(ii) n is the limit maneuvering load factor used in design
(2) The value of Va need not exceed the value of Vc used in
design.
(d) Design speed for maximum gust intensity, Vb. For Vb, the
following apply:
(1) Vb may not be less than the speed determined by the
intersection of the line representing the maximum positive lift C(n max)
and the line representing the rough air gust velocity on the gust V-n
diagram, or sqrt (n(g)) * Vs1, whichever is less, where:
(i) n(g) {is} the positive airplane gust load factor due to
gust, at speed Vc (in accordance with 23.341), and at the particular
weight under consideration; and
(ii) Vs1 is the stalling speed with the flaps retracted at the
particular weight under consideration.
(2) Vb need not be greater than Vc.
Of course, we all knew all of this didn't we? :-)
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee |
Thanks Jerry.
I when through a learning curve on my HS & well their are two places I am
going to have to "hide" With the old Priming & sanding technic. You
don't use 100# of air to drive a #3 rivet. I have painted several cars &
the pants on my 172 & the tip tanks on my bonanza, but I have to wear
this glasses & they get in the way of my mask . I hope to get it ready &
have a painter finish it.
I am currently trying to get along with this new internet so not to
bother everyone. Can't figure out how to download all the old e-mails
that Matt has so I have to read them on AOL. But I had to work hard to
learn the slide rule too.
Don Jordan, RV-6A, Arlington,Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee, let me count the ways |
>>
>Mike,
>I've been trying unsuccessfully for three years to get How-To books from
>the paint companies at OSH and Sun&Fun to no avail. I'd sure appreciate
>some good references. I have "Aircraft Painting and Finishing" (the red
>how-to books from the EAA bookstore) but it is worthless to me as a
>homebuilder. I have twice written DuPont for info but have received
>nothing useful. Where and how did you get your books?
>Thanks.
>Dennis
>
Dennis,
Sterling paint has free application guides from their main
distributor for Linear Polyurethane coatings.
DETCO 714-631-8480
Ask for the Aviation Application guide.
... Gil (bought paint there) Alexander
PS If you buy paint from them, don't forget to ask for the 40% EAA discount.
PPS Their U-1000 is a graet primer/pinhole filler for fiberglass parts
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
Just a note about glide speeds. I had an old d-35 Bonanza that stalled
at less than 60 mph, but the best glide speed according to the book, was
120 mph. I have done only a couple quick glide tests in my -4 so far
and but it seems that around 90 mph is a good speed for me, so far.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
Just a note about glide speeds. I had an old d-35 Bonanza that stalled
at less than 60 mph, but the best glide speed according to the book, was
120 mph. I have done only a couple quick glide tests in my -4 so far
and but it seems that around 90 mph is a good speed for me, so far.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Power curves on lycoming engines |
I don't mean to get something started here but, I was wondering if any
one knows what the power curves are for lycoming engines. I have heard
several people say the more rpm you turn the more horse power you are
producing. For example when I said the prop I was using allowed my
engine to turn almost 3000 rpm, they said It was producing 170 hp. It
is odd to me that the lycoming people would establish a red line lower
than the maximum hp unless it is for a safety buffer for the engine. I
was wondering just where the hp or torque curve starts to drop off for
these engines? Does any one on the list know the answer to these
questiions, or is it a good one to ask lycoming? Thanks alot. Just
curious. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Prime VA-146 flange bearing? |
RV-Listers,
I am rivetting my RV-8 HS rear spar parts together, and I was struck
with a stupid question:
Do I need to prime the VA-146 flange bearing? It is not alclad, but
I am not sure what alloy it is. The steel brackets are primed, so
dissimilar metal corrosion should not be an issue. If I decide to
prime it, it will be a royal pain in the butt getting it degreased
without degreasing the bearing.
I think I will leave the VA-146 without primer, but before I rivet it
together I figured I should seek the collective wisdom of the list.
Thanks in advance,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (just started tail kit)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 839-0228 (home)
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles(at)onramp.net (charles young) |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
The Navaid works very well, considering the value for the money, its hard
to beat. Currently installed on -6A, with servo under copilot seat.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: server going berserk?? |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> scott wrote:
> >
> >
> > This morning I got 170 messages, and I had just checked in last
> night
> > before going to bed. I found a lot of messages that had no text
> with
> > them and appeared to be duplicate entries? Anybody else concur?
>
> Yep.
>
> Sam Buchanan
> sbuc(at)traveller.com
Me too,spent most of Sunday going through all of them,of course there is
one answer,simply delete the whole lot in one go and wait till it's
fixed!
>
>
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Edwards <CTE(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Prime VA-146 flange bearing? |
Kevin,
I primed mine. I think you need to prime the flange bearing. I
called another RV-8 builder, John Watjen, who is helping me with mine and=
he has primed his also. It must some type of aluminum and it doesn't
appear to be alclad.
John Watjen RV-8 80361
Valley City, Ohio just south of Cleveland
Chris Edwards RV-8 80231
Akron, Ohio
cte(at)compuserve.com
snipped from mail
>
RV-Listers,
I am rivetting my RV-8 HS rear spar parts together, and I was struck
with a stupid question:
Do I need to prime the VA-146 flange bearing? It is not alclad, but
I am not sure what alloy it is. The steel brackets are primed, so
dissimilar metal corrosion should not be an issue. If I decide to
prime it, it will be a royal pain in the butt getting it degreased
without degreasing the bearing.
I think I will leave the VA-146 without primer, but before I rivet it
together I figured I should seek the collective wisdom of the list.
Thanks in advance,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (just started tail kit)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 839-0228 (home)
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prime VA-146 flange bearing? |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
What I usually do with these type of bearings (also can be done on
aileron hinge bracket bearings, etc) is put a piece of masking tape on
each side, rub down tight , scribe around the edge with your fingernail,
and then trim on the scribe with an exacto/ razor blade.
Then clean the remainder of the part and prime with what ever product you
are using.
Scott Mc RV-6A N64SD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I apologize ahead of time if I am out of place for posting this here
(I didn't see anything about it in the user guide lines).
I am new to the list, thought it would be interesting to see what was
being discussed in RV builders land.
I moved to the Portland area 1 1/2 years ago to work in the prototype
shop at Van's Aircraft, and have enjoyed working there
except for one thing. My wife and I cannot afford to buy a house in this
area that is comparable to what we had in PHX because there is such a
large price differential between the 2 locations. As a result, our pride
and joy RV-6A is regrettably for sale.
It was featured as the march photo of the 1997 Vans aircraft calendar,
and is a very nice airplane.
If any of you run acrossed some one who - Loves RV's Wants an RV Can't
build one wants one right now - kind of thinker.
Please have them get in touch with me and maybe they can buy a real nice
airplane , and we can finally move out of this tiny apartment.
Thanks
Scott Mc RV-6A N64SD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I may be very very wrong, but I thought that best glide speed (most
distance gained for a given amount of alt. used) was in a way similar to
best rate of climb speed. It has been a while since I did all my flight
testing, but a thought I remember my RV-6A a best glide between 95 and
100 mph indicated. I guess I need to recheck.
And everything that has been mentioned previously about variations in
different props having a factor I have found to be very true.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
As Bob N. just implied; and not knowing my self whether it would be
required(read that not taking any chances) I have installed Alt cooling
on all the RV's that I have Built/completed.
An easy way that I have found to add it to any Alt. that has no cooling
fan is to make a small shroud to put over the aft portion of the
alternator.
Find a plastic container that is about the same diam. as the
alternator(or about a 1/16" larger). I have also made a small male mold
using foam obtained from one of the composite builders, and forming it to
the shape I want.
Using polyester resin and light weight glass cloth (6 to 8 Oz is fine)
lay up about three layers on your mold. remove when hard and trim to fit
( you usually need to cut a notch to clear the rear mounting leg of the
alt.) so that you can slip it on the aft side of the alt.
Add holes and grommets for wires. I usually mount it by slitting it in
one or two places and then clamping it on with a large screw(hose)
clamp wrapped all the way around.
Don't forget to duct air to it. The new yellow RV-8 prototype was done
using the ribbed plastic wire conduit that is sold at vans.
Make a hole with your Unibit in the baffle inlet ramp and the side of the
fiberglass shroud that you can snap a ribbed segment of the conduit into
on each end and your done.
You then have a system that cools the alt. with a small amount of
pressure fed air from the back of the alt. through to the front.
BTW I have 600 trouble free hours on a small alt. with the standard
pulley bought from vans in 1992. My ring gear support also has the
smaller size driving pulley on it though.
Scott Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
charset="iso-8859-1"
The pink panther was due for new shoe leather so I jacked her up and
installed two new tires. During the inspection I also discovered that the
stoppers were about shot so I took the parts to the local FBO. They did not
have an brake pads with 3 rivits but they had some with 2 that fit right on.
So I installed them. When I put them on the airplane they did not fit right
and when I tightened them up they locked up.
Evidently the 2 rivit pads are too thick. I looked in Trade-a-Plane, there
is a long list of part numbers. So my question is What Cleveland part
number do I need?
Thanks
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry thornton <jthorn(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee |
juno.com!donspawn(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> from: Don Jordan, RV-6A,
> writes:
>
> >but I bought a Hobby Air and it was like standing in a cool fresh ocean
> breeze. No >odor and full protection.
>
> What is a Hobby air?
> I am working on my left wing now. I would like to prime & fill the plane
> & then have a professional shoot it. I am using Dupont Vari-Prime Self
> etching primer.
> Ugliest color green that exist. What should I use as a primer for the
> outside of the skin that would be compatible with the polyurethanes or
> the arcylic lacers?
>
> Don Jordan, RV-6A
>
>
Don, I called Dupont and talked with one of their tech reps. He told
me that Vari-prime is NOT a moisture barrier and if you use it (as for
corrosion protection) you should apply a sealer coat over it. It is the
accepted primer for polyurethane topcoats, however. I have decided to
do all the sanding, filling, etc on my -6A and let a professional prime
and topcoat it. After this many years of effort, I want the finish to
be exemplary and I do not feel qualified to paint it myself.
Jerry Thornton (riveting fuselage skins)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Pomeroy <pomeroy(at)spiritone.com> |
ICDC.COM!morristec(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> RV>Hello out there!
>
> RV>Is it just me, or are the rest of you getting a lot of this:
>
> RV><<< No Message Collected >>>
>
> RV>I'm also getting three and four of some messages that are several days old.
>
> Me to!!
>
> Dan Morris
>
Me to!!!
Dave Pomeroy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | How-To Paint Books |
Dennis Persyk asked about "How-To" books on painting.
DuPont selld "Auto Refinishing Handbook" for about 15 dollars and it is
worth every penny. It contains a product section that is a little out of
date, but is still a great reference.
DuPont has a very nice little 12-page booklet called "DuPont Imron Aircraft
Finishes" that is a must-have if you are going to paint your airplane with
Imron. It contains step-by-step instructions about undercoating and
evrtything. It's FREE all you have to do is ask for it at your local
DuPont dealer. They may have to order one for you, but just ask.
In addition, DuPont has Application notes for all their paints. For
example, I plan to paint my RV-6 using ChromaOne. In front of me now is a
7-page application note for ChromaOne and it covers the following steps:
Safety
Surface Preparation
Painted surfaces
Treating Bare Metal
If FIll is needed
Sealer
ChromaOne application
Blending
Clearcoating
These application notes are FREE.
Get to know your DuPOnt dealer. Mine has been very helpful. GO in during
a slow time, buy lacquer thinner or something, and start talking to them
and asking questions. You'll find them very helpful.
Once you've read about it, the only thing it takes is practice. A local
salvage outfit near here sold me a 4x8 sheet of aluminum for 20 bucks.
That and a gallon of stripper will give me everything I need to get all the
prctice I want.
And after a little practice, if the results don't look right, take a small
sample back to your DuPont dealer and he will be happy to help you figure
out what is wrong.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Canopy - fitting side skins - help!! |
I hate to keep harping on this, but the Tri-State Wing newsletter had a
series of articles that covered all of these problems and had lots of
pictures to go with the instructions. You can install your canopy yourself
without any help if you use the method that I did. My canopy fits perfectly
and even though it has absolutely no seals anywhere it does not leak air or
water. If you get a good fit, you do not need to seal it. I have
relinquished the editorship of the newsletter but have given the new editor
the masters of the back issues so that he can make more copies. They will
still be available for $5.00 per year as before. 1995,1996, and 1997 issues
all had articles about the installation. E-mail me with your address and I
will get them to you. As soon as Kevin gets a modem that is fast enough to
download all of the messages on the RV-list in a reasonable time he will be
able send them without my help. There are lots of other reasons to get the
newsletter, but the canopy articles alone make it worth getting. I get all
sorts of testimonials directly, but most do not post them to the list so I
end up wanting to help. At $5.00 per year, there is less than a dollar
profit after reprinting costs and postage, so I am not in this for the money.
I just want to help and I think that the newsletters will do that. I'll get
off of my soapbox now. Thanks for your patience.
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Shortened Seat Backs |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
I have the full length seat backs in my -6. One friend has the shortened
ones. He tells everyone to shorten them. Another friend has high backs
and tells everyone to keep them long. He says "the tall backs provide
better support in aerobatics." I say it is personal preference. The
backs are hinged and can be tilted forward to load baggage. I have the
slider.
I like high back seats in cars, at home and in the office. Therefore I
like and have them in my -6.
I find it hard to get stuff from behind me while in flight. This is in
every airplane that I fly not just the -6. Everything that I may need
while flying is nearby before I take off.
If you do not know what you like, I suggest build them per plans and fly
with them. If after flying you do not like them, they can be cut down
easier than they can be lengthened. I know, I cut it three times and it
is still too short. :-)
Gary A. Sobek
N157GS RV-6 O-320 C.S.
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer, modem, and printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it
is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By
Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable
by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater,
for each violation."
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com (Gary A. Sobek) |
writes:
>
>
>Should I open this hornet's nest ? Why would anyone in his right mind
want
>to make his own baffles ?
---------- snip ----------
> I elected to make my own baffles for several reasons.
---------- snip ----------
Austin:
Good for you. I bought the kit and wish I would have made mine. The kit
is made by someone for VAN and mine did not fit well. Every piece needed
to be modified to fit. I think I could have made mine in less time and
for 1/2 the money then the kit cost.
Gary A. Sobek
N157GS RV-6 O-320 C.S.
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer, modem, and printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it
is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment. By
Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable
by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater,
for each violation."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet Gun Repair |
<< after almost 3 years and anywhere between 14000 and
18000 rivets, my faithful Taylor 2X gun, purchased new from Cleveland
Aircraft Tools and well maintained, quit with only 3 rivets left to
drive. I blows air but the hammer action won't work. >>
There are pneumatic tool repair shops all over the country, and many
"industrial tool" supply houses will have an in house repair department that
can fix you up. TAYLOR Pneumatic Tools have a lifetime warranty against
manufacturing defects, so you might want to return it to the supplier you
bought it from or directly to Taylor yourself to see if it will qualify for a
warranty repair. If you need to purchase replacement parts, Taylor Tools are
Chicago Pneumatic "clones" so parts are easily available.
If you need information to contact Taylor Tool Co. directly, please let me
know, as we are master distributors for the Taylor line.
Good Luck !
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
Bethany, Oklahoma
1-800-587-3883
BrownTool(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Operational Speeds |
RV>First, what is the power off best glide speed in an RV, particularly a=
n
RV>RV-6A?
The CAFE Foundation did flight tests on Steve Barnards RV6A in 1993 and
published a report in the September 93 Sport Aviation. The report stated
that the zero thrust speed for max lift to drag (glide, best distance zer=
o
wind) was 106 MPH, the speed for minimum sink rate was 80.5 MPH (most tim=
e
to don life vests for water landing enroute to Bahamas, also could be bes=
t
glide distance with a strong tailwind). =
Note that these were zero thrust speeds, I do not know what effect a
stopped or windmilling prop would have, however I assume the optimum spee=
ds
would be about the same with the rate of descent increasing accordingly.
RV>Second, regarding Vans Vne of 210 mph. should I regard this as true or=
RV>indicated airspeed.
The VNE as indicated unless there are large errors in the system then use=
indicated speed corrected for errors (calibrated).
The Boeing 747-400 is red lined at 360 knots and when climbing at heavy
weights (870,000 lb) the optimum climb speed is right up close to the
barber pole. True airspeed increases with altitude and at 25,000 feet 35=
5
indicated gives a true airspeed of about 505 knots. Above 25,000 things
change again and we transition to mach .85 at 27,000 ft. For the rest of
the climb mach is maintained and indicated air speed decreases.
One previous posting said that Vne decreases with altitude. This is true
but generally only when we get up into the flight levels. A Rayjay
turbocharged Mooney M20B had the following restriction on the STC. Reduce=
Vne 5 (five) MPH per 1000 Ft above 22,700 ft. I do not know the reason fo=
r
the restriction. =
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
First inspection, no snags, closing up empennage. =
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
>
>Two quick questions for those with more RV time than my initial 20
>hours.
>
>First, what is the power off best glide speed in an RV, particularly an
>RV-6A? How would the actual glide angle at that speed compare to an
>engine off condition as compared to an engine at near idle?
I have found 80mph indicated to be a good speed. I have observed between
800 and 1500fpm at this speed, but never tried to refine it. 1000fpm would
be a glide ratio of about 7:1. I have tried it both with the prop turning
and stopped, but do not have the data at my fingertips. I will try it
again some day and jot the data down.
>Second, regarding Vans Vne of 210 mph. should I regard this as true or
>indicated airspeed. In other words, at my normal flying altitudes of
>11,000 - 12,000' (high country of Colorado), approximately 180 mph
>indictated equates to 210 true. At this altitude, should I consider the
>180 indicated as my actual Vne?
Vne is a speed the airframe must experience through the air. It is an
indicated airspeed. So, when you when indicating 180, the airframe does
not know if you are at sea level trueing 180 or at altitude trueing 210. It
sees the same pressures that the pitot experiences. Bill
>Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 flying. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Admin Kit User <jerrydd(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Mans Glass Panel Moving Map, Has Anybody Done This ? |
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
>
> Has anybody taken a PC laptop, and dissociated the screen from the laptop
> unit, and then mounted the screen on their panel ?
>
> Has anybody used the Mentor moving map GPS software that shows your
> airplanes position on a highly detailed, colored VFR moving map on your PC ?
>
> Since I already have the GPS, and unused laptop, I would only have to
> purchase the software ( about $500 ).
>
> This would be substanially less than the 7,000 to 10,000 glass panels I have
> seen at flyins.
>
> As always, any comments are greatly appreciated !
>
> Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com (wondering if I should take the PC screen off
> myself ..., those wires are tiny)
>
Scott, There is a guy I met about six months ago in Gladewater Texas
that built a moving map system like that. He took the screen off of a
IBM Thinkpad and built a tray for it that slides under the panel after
loading the CD-ROM, he mounted a small fingertip mouse by the throttle
and for the monitor he used a monochrome display that is ten inches
deep, the screen is about 6"x6". This monitor is very cheap and readily
available, they are used as monitors on cash registers. They are
available for $35.00 for the monochrome and about $400.00 for the color
ones. Jerry Jerrydd(at)earthlink.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: RV-4 Bulkhead Positioning |
I'm not sure if this message was posted so I'll send it again.
---------------
>
> Fellow Listers (especially the RV-4 experts):
>
> I am positioning the bulkheads on my RV-4 fuselage jig. Specifically I
am
> aligning all the bulkheads aft of F-407. I am using a series of strings
> and long straight edges to be sure bulkheads F-408, 409, and 410 will be
> aligned perfectly and allow the fuselage skin to lay flush (both on the
> sides and bottom) relative to a straight line between F-407 and F-412.
All
> bulkheads are positioned as per the plans. Everything is perfect except
> for F-408 which is in effect is too wide (by about 1/8" - 3/16" each
side)
> at its designated position on the jig.
>
> Question: if I leave it as is, will I have difficulty positioning the
> fuselage skin at this point (will it bulge out noticeably). Another
option
> is to move this bulkhead forward until it fits side to side but this
means
> cutting off the flanges of the F-418 baggage ribs and making new flanges
> effectively shortening these ribs (also resulting in the movement forward
> of the elevator bellcrank mount at this point).
>
> Your opinions and suggestions as always are appreciated.
>
>
> *******************************************
> Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
<< It always amazes me how we
are all spending $30-50 thousand dollars on these airplanes, but won't
spring for
$20 worth of copper pipe! >>
The desire to "cheap out" springs eternal, Ed. It is near and dear to the
old something for nothing idea that creaps into all human endeavors. I see
this in government, business, etc., why not tools and furnishings?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Power curves on lycoming engines |
<< I have heard several people say the more rpm you turn the more horse power
you are producing. >>
Hopefully more than several people say this, because it is true.
The equation is P=T*N/5252. P=hp, T=torque (ft-lb), N=rpm
You can see that just by turning more revs, we get more horses right up until
the engine can't breathe, the valves float or everything frags. The power
curve can be considered nearly linear from low to mid range, falling off
slightly as the max rpm limit of 2700 or so is reached. Get a copy of the
engine manual and you can see all of the information on these engines. There
is a good chart (albeit small) that describes the effects of manifold
pressure and rpm from MSL to 20,000 ft in ISA or otherwise.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds & Alternate Engine |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>
><< (I wish we had to worry about the critical mach number.) >>
>
>Ever wish you'd built a BD-10J instead?
>
>Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
Nope.
I don't like the accident record. And if I could afford the airplane, I
wouldn't want to have to pay for the gas.
For my RV-3 with the LOM engine (and the Ivoprop Magnum VP prop and
sportcraft antenna's),
I burn 5 gallons per hour at 160 mph true (averaged on my trip to Oshkosh
and back flying with a Bellanca).
I burn 4 gallons per hour at 125 mph true (averaged on my trip to
Portland and back flying with a Cessna 172).
I don't have fuel consumption numbers yet for max. cruise speed without
the supercharger running, or max. speed at 7,500 feet with the
supercharger running.
I should have these in the next week, or so.
P.S. I just recently received a copy of the in-flight photos that were
taken at Oshkosh of me in my RV-3. I'm trying to get one scanned for the
Ivoprop page. Will let you know when it's there.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do I paint thee, let me count the ways |
>nothing useful. Where and how did you get your books?
>Thanks.
>Dennis
Well it was about 15 years ago but I just asked for info at the Ditzler
store and they loaded me up. Dupont also had some info then. It sounds
like the book that Dave Barnhart mentioned will be a good one to get myself
before I get back into it. It will be a couple of years before I get to
spray my RV but I've got a Ford pickup and Chevy Sprint to practice on
'till then.
Mike McGee jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
Life without obsession is such a shallow existence.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flap Installation |
> Well, you get the idea, I'm lost again. The EF6-1 drawing is nice
but I
> must be missing something, it just seems like there is not enough
> information to locate the ef-661 parts on the F-605d side pieces
and the
> 680 center block to the 605 bottom part.
Jim,
I can empathize. It took me awhile just to realize it mounts on the
back side of the bulkhead and that the holes I so carefully cut for
the flap arms are not necessary with the electric flaps. The long
side of each block will be horizontal when mounted and all three have
their holes off-center. The thicker side of all three blocks goes
forward, and on the center block, the other thick side (vertically)
rests on the baggage floor rib. I mounted mine while still in the
jig with the skins off so I don't know if I'll have a problem when
the floor skins are on... if so I'll just shave the block as
necessary. Once you get the pieces close to the right place, the
alignment is self-evident.
Hope this helps,
Greg Young - gyoung@cs-sol.com
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 - skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mazda Rotary Power Plant and Two hours needed in RV-6 |
Sorry, forgot to answer you question concering motor mount. I took the one
you get in the kit, I asked for the Conical mount one vice the dynamount -
but it doesn't make any difference because all that is retain are the
attachment fittings and the nose gear weld up. The engine connections are
removed and replace with tubing and motor mount attachments for the Mazda
13B. I had it done by Ross Aero in Tuscon Arz as that is where I got my
PSRU.
Ed
----------
From: aol.com!QmaxLLC
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mazda Rotary Power Plant and Two hours needed in RV-6
Date: Friday, October 24, 1997 4:33AM
Sure wish I could help you with the flight, but sorry, I've only got the
tail
done on my 6A. Perhaps you can help me/us by describing your Rotary
installation.
Did Tracy Crook's book prove useful? Accurate? What problems, ingenious
solutions did you come across?
I'm especially interested in your engine mount. Any thing to advise us on?
Congratulations and envy from
Bob Fritz
San Mateo, CA
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV-4 Bulkhead Positioning |
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
>
> Everything is perfect except
> > for F-408 which is in effect is too wide (by about 1/8" - 3/16" each
> side)
> > at its designated position on the jig.
> >
> > Question: if I leave it as is, will I have difficulty positioning the
> > fuselage skin at this point (will it bulge out noticeably).
I had to cut the F-408 bulkhead in the top middle, made a splice
plate out of .025. Made the cuts to fit then riveted it back together.
Worked out fine.
Carroll Bird. working on cowling -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
So my question is What Cleveland part
> number do I need?
Doug
You need 66-106 you can get them from Chief Aircraft in Grants Pass, Or.
>
> Thanks
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Engine Momitor |
JP,
Becki and I have had the RMI unit in both of our planes and plan to put it in
the RV8 that we are building now. Need I say any more. George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Rear Seat Back Mod? |
Dear Listers,
I remember a few months ago there was talk of a mod to the RV-4 rear
seat back for reinforcement. I haven't seen anything since. Was it real?
Thanks.
Boris Robinson
starting fuse skinning.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vne vs. top speed |
****Doggonit, Bob I wish I would have put it that way, It was on the
tip of my tougue too...;^)
>While compliance with FAR 23 is not required for Experimental,
>Amateur Built aircraft, it does define the term Vne. I do not
>know if Van's follows the FAA convention when publishing Vne.
>
>23.1505 Airspeed limitations.
> (a) The never exceed speed Vne must be established so that it is -
> (1) Not less than 0.9 times the minimum value of Vd allowed=20
> under =A7 23.335; and
> (2) Not more than the lesser of -
> (i) 0.9 Vd established under =A7 23.335; or
> (ii) 0.9 times the maximum speed shown under =A7 23.251.
>
>23.335 Design airspeeds.
> Except as provided in paragraph (a)(4) of this section, the selected
>design airspeeds are equivalent airspeeds (EAS).
> (a) Design cruising speed, Vc. For Vc the following apply:
> (1) Vc (in knots) may not be less than -
> (i) 33 W/S (for normal, utility, and commuter category
>airplanes) {Note: According to the FAA, this should read "33 * sqrt
>(W/S)...". The square root was inadvertently dropped at Amdt. 23-34. -
>Ed.}; and
> (ii) 36 * sqrt (W/S) (for acrobatic category airplanes).
> (2) For values of W/S more than 20, the multiplying factors may be
>decreased linearly with W/S to a value of 28.6 where W/S =3D 100.
> (3) Vc need not be more than 0.9 Vh at sea level.
> (4) At altitudes where an Md is established, a cruising speed Mc
>limited by compressibility may be selected.
> (b) Design dive speed Vd. For Vd, the following apply:
> (1) Vd/Md may not be less than 1.25 Vc/Mc; and
> (2) With Vc min, the required minimum design cruising speed, Vd
>(in knots) may not be less than -
> (i) 1.40 Vc min (for normal and commuter category airplanes);
> (ii) 1.50 Vc min (for utility category airplanes); and
> (iii) 1.55 Vc min (for acrobatic category airplanes).
> (3) For values of W/S more than 20, the multiplying factors in
>paragraph (b)(2) of this section may be decreased linearly with W/S to a
>value of 1.35 where W/S =3D 100.
> (4) Compliance with paragraphs (b) (1) and (2) of this section
>need not be shown if Vd/Md is selected so that the minimum speed margin
>between Vc/Mc and Vd/Md is the greater of the following:
> (i) The speed increase resulting when, from the initial
>condition of stabilized flight at Vc/Mc, the airplane is assumed to be
>upset, flown for 20 seconds along a flight path 7.5=B0 below the initial
>path, and then pulled up with a load factor of 1.5 (0.5 g acceleration
>increment). At least 75 percent maximum continuous power for
>reciprocating engines, and maximum cruising power for turbines, or, if
>less, the power required for Vc/Mc for both kinds of engines, must be
>assumed until the pullup is initiated, at which point power reduction
>and pilot controlled drag devices may be used.
> (ii) Mach 0.05 (at altitudes where an Md is established).
> (c) Design maneuvering speed Va. For Va, the following applies:
> (1) Va may not be less than Vs * sqrt(n) where -
> (i) Vs is a computed stalling speed with flaps retracted at the
>design weight, normally based on the maximum airplane normal force
>coefficients, C(na); and
> (ii) n is the limit maneuvering load factor used in design
> (2) The value of Va need not exceed the value of Vc used in
>design.
> (d) Design speed for maximum gust intensity, Vb. For Vb, the
>following apply:
> (1) Vb may not be less than the speed determined by the
>intersection of the line representing the maximum positive lift C(n max)
>and the line representing the rough air gust velocity on the gust V-n
>diagram, or sqrt (n(g)) * Vs1, whichever is less, where:
> (i) n(g) {is} the positive airplane gust load factor due to
>gust, at speed Vc (in accordance with =A7 23.341), and at the particular
>weight under consideration; and
> (ii) Vs1 is the stalling speed with the flaps retracted at the
>particular weight under consideration.
> (2) Vb need not be greater than Vc.
>
>
>Of course, we all knew all of this didn't we? :-)
>
>Bob Moore
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Power curves on lycoming engines |
Thanks alot. This answers my question. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
>
>Should I open this hornet's nest ? Why would anyone in his right mind want
>to make his own baffles ? Well, how would you like to trade $180 or so for
>$180 worth of gas to fly by using your own skills ?
That's one of the great things about homebuilding, you CAN choose to save a
few bucks and make your own parts. Your second sentence is in the form of a
questions so I'll give it a try. It is possible to build your baffles from
scratch. I used Van's kit and wouldn't ever consider doing it any other
way in an RV. First, you will not be saving $180. The raw materials aren't
free, especially the airseal fabric. Second, even by using Van's kit, this
job is one pain in the butt. I spent too many hours installing my baffles.
This is one of those jobs that looks a lot easier than it is. Third, Van's
kit works. The parts are made well and the bends are better than I can do.
Just my $.03 (adjusted for inflation)
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: RV-4 Bulkhead Positioning |
Doug,
I'm not an RV-4 expert but I did recently have similar considerations
while jigging my-6. While aligning the bulk heads with a 8 foot straight
edge the F-608 bulkhead seemed a little small, when I checked it against
the plans dimensions, it measured a little small. Van's had a revision
were they widened the F-607 & F-608 bulkheads 1/4" to "tighten the
skins" (this should be an indication of how little 1/8" would really
matter) Being concerned I relocated my F-608 3/8" aft in the JIg because
the bulk head checked short as well as narrow. Now that I have the skins
on there is a bulge there, as there should be due to the revision. But
the bulge didn't show when checking the skeleton while jigging. You
can't tell that the skins bulge unless you put a 8 foot straight edge
against it. Come to think of it I have never seen an RV were a bulge in
the fuselage grabbed my attention.
The point of all this is that if I were to do it again, I would just
put the bulkhead in the plans location, and be done with it. If Vans can
add 1/4" to a couple bulkheads and it dosen't make that much difference
an 1/8 here or there wouldn't be noticeable.
Chris Brooks
Murfreesboro,TN
RV6, Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | EVERETT HATCH KILLED IN RV-4 CRASH |
According to the Salem Statesman Journal, Everett Hatch was killed during a
pleasure flight near his grass strip. Another pilot flying in the area saw
his RV-4 suddenly roll inverted and go straight in from 800 feet. Cause of
accident unknown.
This apparently occured yesterday(Sunday) around 4 pm.
While I did not know Everett very well, he was a quiet, but very knowlegable
and very well liked man. He was pioneering the use of rotary engines in
aircraft. He also overhauled the engine in my RV-4. Sounds like he either had
a heart attack or other suddenly incapacitating occurence, such as striking a
large bird, or perhaps a control system failure? Likely Vans will go out and
examine the wreckage.
Condolences to Hatch's family.
Von Alexander
N107RV
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric trim, altermative placement |
<< I have been looking at placing my electric elevator trim servo in a
location other than in the left elevator. >>
I placed the MAC servo on the left side longeron and used a RV-4 throttle
cable from Van's to connect to the tab. Easy and works fine.
Phil Rogerson
Wiring 6AQ
Fernandina Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flap Installation |
>I can empathize. It took me awhile just to realize it mounts on the
>back side of the bulkhead and >>> that the holes I so carefully cut for
>the flap arms are not necessary with the electric flaps. <<<
For those who have cut holes in the 605 for manual flaps and then
converted to electric, you might consider covering the two holes. On my
manual flap RV-6, I've found that a large amount of air moves straight
forward out of these two slots. In very cold weather, I end up putting a
small towel over each opening while in flight. (Don't forget to remove said
towels when time to put down flaps). I intended to makes some "booties" to
cover these holes, but once again, put it off until too late. Cold weather
is here:(
Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hours Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alivic(at)wport.com |
I read with great interest ,"The "HMMMMMMMMMMMM"
alternative," in my latest issue of the RVator.
Has anybody subscribed to Tracy Crook's newsletter and/or
bought his book on how to put together a Mazda rotary engine for
aircraft use? I am trying to educate myself sufficiently in order to
make an intelligent decision as to whether or not rotary power is a
viable alternative. Will Tracy Crook's information be useful? Are
there any other recommended sources for the information I desire?
Tony Livic alivic(at)wport.com
RV-8 empennage still in the box
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alivic(at)wport.com |
| Subject: | compressor question |
I had to good fortune of purchasing a used 5 hp, 60 gal.
compressor in very good condition. It is clear to me after moving this
machine around that it needs to be secured to the floor. Are there any
suggestions for the optimum method of doing this? Also I need to
install a regulator/filter on the output of this machine. Any
recommendations will be appreciated. Harbor freight advertisies a FRL
unit for $42.99 that filters, regulates & lubricates?
Tony Livic alivic(at)wport.com
RV-8 empennage still in the box
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv(at)tppal.com> |
Does anyone know if there is a difference between "in-flight adjustable" and
constant speed props? I do not know if I should spend $5000 on a CS or $800
for an Ivoprop in-flight adjustable. Any suggestions?
Paul Besing
RV-6A QB waiting on kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)GEON.com> |
| Subject: | Prime VA-146 flange bearing? |
Kevin,
Prime it all! I am priming everything with PPG epoxy primer (except the
fuel tank interior). However, I live in the Gulf Coast area and am
concerned with atmospheric corrosion. Being in Canada I don't think you
have the humidity problem we have, but I don't think you can go wrong
painting it all. Regarding the bearing, I did mask off the end and
ended up with a little less than perfect coating in that area - but
still better than nothing.
Bryan Jones
assembling my RV-8 right wing
JONESB(at)GEON.COM
>
>
> RV-Listers,
>
> I am rivetting my RV-8 HS rear spar parts together, and I was struck
> with a stupid question:
>
> Do I need to prime the VA-146 flange bearing? It is not alclad, but
> I am not sure what alloy it is. The steel brackets are primed, so
> dissimilar metal corrosion should not be an issue. If I decide to
> prime it, it will be a royal pain in the butt getting it degreased
> without degreasing the bearing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com> |
--=_ORCL_15222545_0_11919710271050600
Is anyone using a Pre Oiler in their RV? If so can you share the details and which
brand you
chose? I have been reading about their benefit and am looking to purchase and
install one.
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_15222545_0_11919710271050600
name="anonymous-attachment-1";
charset="us-ascii"
filename="anonymous-attachment-1"
Is anyone using a Pre Oiler in their
RV? If so can you share the details and which brand you chose? I have
been reading about their benefit and am looking to purchase and install
one.
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
--
Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_15222545_0_11919710271050600--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . . |
Following is an article from the Avweb site re the advisability of an
avionics master switch. I wasn't planning on putting one in due to having
a single point of failure for all of the avionics. Do you really have to
worry about voltage spikes as Mr. Rogers suggests when starting your engine
if you don't have an avionics master switch?
Avionics Master Switches
If your aircraft was built before the late 1970s, the factory probably
didn't include an avionics master switch. But if you've upgraded your panel
to modern solid-state radios, you really need one...maybe even two. There
are several different kinds, and AVweb's avionics guru explains how they
work, how they fail, what they cost, and why you'd be foolish not put one=
in.=20
by Tom Rogers, Ph.D. (trogers(at)avweb.com)=20
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Almost daily I receive calls and questions about avionics master switches.
Do I need one? What type should I use? Most of these questions come from
owners of aircraft that didn't have a master switch when originally built,
and wonder whether one should be installed now.=20
Prior to about1970, few aircraft had an avionics master switch, and for
good reason. For one thing, early aircraft didn't have much avionics to
protect. I remember years ago when a Mark 12A and a Genave marker beacon
was considered advanced electronics. Of course this is not the case today.=
=20
Another reason an avionics master was not needed in early years is because
vacuum tube radios weren't subject to damage from spikes from the charging
system when the aircraft was started with the radios turned on. But all
that changed when tubes were replaced with silicon. Try starting the engine
with your modern solid-state radios turned on and there's a good chance you
will damage your avionics. The damage may not show up immediately, but
nevertheless, damage has been done.=20
Drop-out relays
There are several type of avionics master switches in use today. Cessna's
first shot at protecting avionics from engine-start transients, introduced
in 1967, was a relay that automatically removed power from the avionics bus
whenever you cranked the engine or applied power to the airplane's ground
power receptacle. One problem with this setup is that you don't know if the
circuit is working correctly or not until radios start to fail. Another
disadvantage is that you can't use external power to work the radios, you
must use the aircraft battery. Of course, without using an external power
source, the avionics technician has a limited amount of time to
troubleshoot problems until the battery is depleted.=20
But the biggest complaint I have with the Cessna avionics drop-out relay is
that if the battery voltage is low and you try starting the engine, the
relay may fail to energize (or energize only intermittently) and
consequently let voltage spikes get into your expensive avionics.
Incidentally, many Beech airplanes use an avionics master switch that works
by means of a normally-closed avionics drop-out relay, and this system is
also vulnerable to the starting-with-a-low-battery problem. Anytime our
shop installs new avionics in a aircraft that has this type of avionics
protection, I yank out the drop-out relay system and install a "real"
avionics master switch. It doesn't cost much, and it's possibly best money
you can spend when you upgrade your radios.=20
Why you need a switch
Your panel of state-of-the-art avionics might represent one-quarter or
one-third of the total value of your aircraft. To invest this kind of money
and not have proper protection doesn't make economic sense or even common
sense.=20
You might think that you could just turn on and off the radios individually
before and after starting the aircraft and wouldn't have a need for an
avionics master switch, but that's only half-true. You may be able to turn
on and off the navigation and communications equipment, but how about the
intercom, fuel computer, glideslope receiver, marker beacon, altitude
encoder, HSI, flight director=85well the list goes on. None of those units
normally have an on-off switch. Their designers assume that the installing
agency knows what they are doing and will provide spike protection.=20
Avionics that have been subjected to voltage spikes often will not show a
problem right away, but within time will fail. Solid-state equipment is
very sensitive to voltage spikes and static electricity. When we work on
modern avionics in the shop, we have to wear grounding straps on our wrists
to protect the avionics from static charges from our body=85that's how
sensitive this new equipment is. On the other hand, if your avionics is
properly protected and the aircraft is properly bonded, you should have
years of trouble-free use of the equipment. In fact, most problems related
with modern avionics are caused by engine starts and stops with the
avionics turned on, excessive heat, or P-Static discharges.=20
By the mid- to late-1970s, most aircraft manufacturers were including an
avionics master switch as standard equipment. By the way, if this switch is
getting hard to turn on or off, replace it now! When it fails (and it soon
will), you will lose all your avionics. Not a good position to be in. The
avionics master switch allows you to control the power applied to the
avionics bus, which supplies power to all the avionics circuit breakers.=20
Switch or switch-breaker?
In some aircraft, the avionics master switch is just an ordinary switch
mounted very close to the avionics bus. In other aircraft, where it's
mounted further away, a switch-breaker is used. And in yet other models,
the switch doesn't control avionics power directly, but instead controls a
drop-out relay. (The advantage of the drop-out relay system is that if the
switch fails, the relay allows the radios to remain on. The disadvantage is
the problem I mentioned earlier when attempting an engine start with a low
battery.)=20
When installing an avionics master switch of the switch-breaker variety, we
recommend the switch-breaker be rated about 25% greater than the maximum
load the avionics could draw. This allows plenty of protection should the
wire from the avionics master switch to, the avionics buss short, and would
let you add a few small items in the future to the avionics buss without
changing the avionics master switch. Keep in mind that each individual
piece of avionics is protected by a smaller circuit breaker (or fuse) which
should "pop" if a problem should arise with a particular item of avionics.
The purpose of using a switch-breaker as an avionics master switch is to
protect the wire going from the switch to the avionics bus, not to protect
the avionics themselves.=20
If one is good, is two better?
Some have asked if it's a good idea to install two avionics master switches
in parallel, just in case one fails, so that a switch failure won't knock
out all the radios. To be honest, I've never seen an avionics master switch
of the switch-breaker variety fail, but I've talked to others who tell me
that they have had a failure of this type of switch. I'd say the odds of
failure are pretty low, but if you are uncomfortable with only one avionics
master then by all means have the shop install a second one. If there's
room on the panel (and the second switch can really go anywhere, even in
the glove box), the price shouldn't be too expensive. The average avionics
master switch-breaker sells for around $60.00 plus installation.=20
If you have modern solid-state avionics (nav/comms, DME, GPS, fuel flow
computer, etc.) then in my opinion an avionics master switch is a must. The
few dollars you try to save by not installing one will return to haunt you
in repair bills, guaranteed.=20
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Rogers is avionics editor for AVweb. Tom operates Avionics West, Inc.,
at Santa Maria, California, one of the finest radio shops on the West
Coast. Tom is an instrument pilot, an FAA Designated Engineering
Representative (DER) for avionics, and has a Ph.D. in nuclear physics.
(We're not sure why he got the doctorate, but we call him "Dr. Tom" and he
seems to like that.) You can send Tom your avionics questions at
avionics(at)avweb.com.=20
Avionics West operates the on-line discount avionics store in the AVweb
on-line shopping area. There you can purchase handheld rad
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . . |
Bob(at)Aeroelectic.com
Concerning the current thread about the 70 amp alternator fuse that blew
due to overcurrent caused by a low battery and lots of equipment running.
Did the fuse open in flight or on the ground while running up?
If this had been an 60 or 70 amp circuit breaker, would it have opened also?
Concerning the questionability of resetting an alternator circuit breaker
when you don't know what caused it to open, would the actions taken by the
pilot be any different? (I know, everyone wants the option to reset it)
Wouldn't you just land as soon as possible before your battery went dead
and then figure out what went wrong?
Is there some type of over-amperage or current limiting device that can be
installed to warn when high current conditions exist?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
RV-6 wings and thinking about my electrical wiring and avionics
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
<< . It didn't take all that long and I won't lie and say it was super
fun the whole way, but it was NOT hard and I would do it again in a
minute, only this time, I would build a plenum. >>
Austin,
Is there a set of plans for a plenum? I've heard that there is better
cooling with a plenum. What has been the experience with RV-6 plenums?
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
Hope this doesn't repeat 3 times
Hope this doesn't repeat 3 times
Hope this doesn't repeat 3 times
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Avionics Master... |
Check out AVweb under avionics corner. Tom Rogers has an article on why
you absolutely MUST HAVE an avionics master. In fact, if you have room,
he suggests two!
Oh, I can't wait until Bob N. sees this!!!! You just can't get better
entertainment at
any price.
In summary: He says that, during starting, spikes WILL damage your
radios. The damage is not obvious but they will fail over time. That's
about it in a nutshell.
Enjoy.....
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Floppy Fairing & fiberglass question |
Fellow RVers,
I just got back from NE. Gone 5 days and had 422 E-mail messages. It's
taking awhile to go through them all.
I have received a lot of orders (and some checks) for the "floppy
fairing". I've tried to collect all correspondence in a special mailbox.
If I don't get back to you after a period of time, drop me another note in
case I pressed the wrong button. Please don't send any more money. I'll
post to the list when I have a batch of fairings made up. I laid up a
fairing before I left for Nebr. and tried AeroPoxy. Big mistake. It must
not like PVA release agent. Big mess. In other words, I have to do some
mold repair before I make any more fairings.
If the builders who need one right now would please contact me "off-list",
I'll try to get some made as quickly as possible. I do have to go back to
Nebr. this weekend, so more delays.
Now, a fiberglass question. I have been using Safety-Poxy (before my
"experiment" with Aeropoxy) and it worked well and released from the mold
easily when using PVA. I've been considering the use of vinyl ester resin
for the one-layer laminate. This is a little cheaper resin but, more
importantly, lay-ups go much faster. One of the frustrating things about
working with epoxy is the tendency of the wet cloth falling off verticle
surfaces. With epoxy, I end up using clamps to hold the cloth to the
verticle surfaces. Messing with clamps and "re-sticking" fallen cloth takes
up a lot of time. With vinylester, you can paint the surface and stick the
cloth to it and it will stay. Also, vinylester works well with PVA. The
main reason for using epoxy was to, hopefully, eleminate the shrinking
tendency which causes the weave to show through. I think that vinylester
does have less shrinking tendency than polyester. I guess my question is:
If you lay up three layers of cloth, using epoxy, over the one layer
laminate made with vinylester, would the three layers of epoxy keep the
weave from showing through?
Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hours Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: HS rivet line centering] |
> Anyway, I need advice. My HS is in the jig, everything is straight &
> level. When I install the skins and cleco & clamp them on, all the
> centerlines I've drawn show through the rivet holes EXCEPT the front
> spar between the center ribs (HS 608) and the inner ribs (HS 405). The
> rivet holes fade toward the rear of the front spar flange so that the
> innermost rivets in that line are behind (or below as viewed in the jig)
> the centerline by 1/8".
> Now this still leaves me with the bare minimum 2X diameter edge distance
> to the front spar flange edge. You could say "Good enough, just drill
> it". I would like to do better than that if possible. I am considering
> cutting the front flange off of the inner main ribs (HS 405) and
> riveting a repair flange on each one. This way I can effectively shorten
> the ribs by that 1/8" and get my rivet holes back on the centerline.
> The plans call out a distance of 12 9/32" between the front and rear
> spars. That is exactly what I have. I've measured everything till I was
> crosseyed, and couldn't find any errors.
> How critical is that 12 9/32" distance? Can I shorten it by an 1/8"? If
> not, can I shorten it by a lesser amount? I would appreciate your imput,
> ideas, etcetera. HELP!!!
Check out how the HS attaches to the fuselage. The distance between
front and rear spars *might* be important for that.
How is having a line of holes down the exact centre of the spar any
better than having them slightly off, but still 2D from the edge? How
much worse is that than having a flange rivetted to the rib?
If it was me, I'd just drill it. IMHO, what you should be aiming to do
is build a plane that meets the specs everywhere, not one that exceeds
them here and there. Otherwise you'll spend a lot of effort making a
perfect HS that will stand (perhaps) 12G but will be attached to a plane
with wings that, although perfect, will only take 9G.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)GEON.com> |
| Subject: | Building RV8 in garage/in hanger |
The garage is the best bet in my opinion. 20 seconds from the house to
the project versus 20 (or more) minutes to the airport is not
comparable. Minimum of $150 per month hanger rent would make up a good
size loan payment.
Also, I used to be big fly R/C quite a bit. This involved traveling to
a model field 45-minutes from the house. Forgetting something caused a
real pain in the *&%&*^. Also, since I was away from the house, my wife
wasn't able to get ahold of me at a moments notice like she can now.
This reduces her stress level with me being away.
Working in the garage also allows me to work in 20 or 30-minute
intervals and still accomplish something.
Good luck - you made a great decision with the RV-8!
...completing my right RV-8 wing
Bryan Jones
JONESB(at)GEON.COM
> I am about to start building an RV8. My wife is not sympathetic to
> the
> idea of me using the garage. Several builders have advised me that
> building in the garage will go faster than building at the airport (8
> miles away). I am trying to quantify this. I think a lot of time
> will
> involve studying the plans, which I can do at home.
> Can anyone offer me some estimates on the relative amounts of time
> these
> alternatives would take?
>
> Charles Woodson
> http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~cw
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Building RV8 in garage/in hanger |
> I am about to start building an RV8. My wife is not sympathetic to the
> idea of me using the garage.
What exactly are her objections? Noise? Smell? Fire danger? Car out in
the rain? Can you deal with whatever her objection is so that you both
win?
> Several builders have advised me that
> building in the garage will go faster than building at the airport (8
> miles away). I am trying to quantify this. I think a lot of time will
> involve studying the plans, which I can do at home.
I agree with the other posts in this thread.
You may also want to buy the Orndorff videos, in which case you'll want
a VCR and TV handy to your building location.
> Can anyone offer me some estimates on the relative amounts of time these
> alternatives would take?
I built my RV-6 empennage in my spare room (11ft x 9ft). You might want
to consider doing something like that. It's warm, it's convenient. I did
a fair amount of the skin work (dimpling and measuring) on the floor of
my lounge. The downside of working in your spare room is that you wind
up getting aluminium filings walked throughout the house. (You may not
want to mention this to your wife :-)
Now I'm building my wings in my single garage. I think I *might* have
been able to build them in the 3ft space between wall and car (backing
the car out to work on the wings), but I chose to build both wings at
once, and the car will just have to get wet. I find the extra distance
(and rain) between lounge (where the plans are) and garage to be a
nuisance. FWIW, I plan to build the fuselage there too, and will
postpone moving to the airfield as long as possible.
Another setup I saw was a "foldaway" jig. It was a very sturdy and rigid
steel jig, hinged at one end to the wall of his one-car garage. When he
wanted to work on his plane, he backed the car out and then pulled the
jig out from the wall. Looked like it worked well.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
can someone give me an idea on the cost of a single axis navaid auto
pilot?
thanks to all
chris marion
rv-6 WAITING on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: operational speeds |
> << (I wish we had to worry about the critical mach number.) >>
>
> Ever wish you'd built a BD-10J instead?
I know I'd prefer to live.
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
| Subject: | Everett Hatch crash |
The radio is reporting this morning that Everett Hatch (sp?)
died Sunday (26 Oct) in a crash of his RV near Aumsville, OR.
Another pilot said he rolled left to inverted, and dove in.
Everett is (was) one of the principals at Powersport,
developing rotary engines for sport aviation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: Pickling advice |
> Hi Shelby. I'd recommend not using "real" oil for this procedure.
> I contacted Lyc about it, and they said to fill it up with the
> cheapest auto oil I could find. My 0-320 ended up taking over 30
> qts before it topped out. It may have been as much as 36, I sort of
> lost count... I found some stuff called "Flag" automotive oil, it
> was around .59/qt.
> Sure beats $3+/qt.
What about Kerosene? (I knew a guy who used to store his guns (with the grips
removed) in a big bucket of Kero. He hardly needed to clean 'em. Before he
went shooting he'd run a brush through 'em, clean 'em off, and oil them. No
water or air in there, and he said Kero is the main ingredient in Hoppes #9
anyway.)
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <airshows1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Top Dollar For Recent RV-6 |
Top-dollar paid for recently-completed quick-build RV-6 with sliding
canopy and factory-new 180Hp and c/s prop. Must be high-quality workmanship
and able to withstand pre-buy by IA who has built a number of RV's. Prefer
unpainted and VFR radio package.
Please contact Bill Knight ASAP by phone (561) 278-8369 or e-mail:
airshows1(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass gear leg fairings |
| From: | bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com (Robert L Reeves) |
Please send me the address, EMail or otherwise, for fiberglass gear leg
fairings, for A RV-6. Thanks in advance.
Bob Reeves
Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4
Hidden River Airport,
Sarasota, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pickling advice |
In a message dated 10/26/97 9:08:20 PM, you wrote:
<>
Ed,
The reason I was using "real" oil is that Shell has an anti-corrosion
additive. This was primarly for infrequent flyers, but I thought it would be
good for my purposes. I have 18 qts of 15-50 in there now and am thinking
your idea at .59/qt may not be such a bad idea.
Do you think there would be any probem with mixing a little Pennzoil 15-40
for the remainder. I have quite a bit around here.
Shelby In Nashville.
RV6A - 200hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | firewall penetrations |
Dear List,
Haven't we all being enjoying the electronic age?
I am in the process of fitting my control cables to my 6A. I have a prop
control as well as throttle and mixture. I have fitted them in the cockpit
to a small subpanel underneath the intrument panel in a horizontal array. I
wondered what setup people had found worked best for the passage through
the firewall. Have people just gone straight forward or is it prudent to
offset them to one side or the other? Do they need supporting in some way
between the knobs and the firewall penetration? I am using the mounting
brackets for ACS cables designed by GV for the woodward governor and carb.
Do people with a few hours on their birds have any comments?
Thank you for your input,
Leo Davies
6A Engine bay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
> I bought the kit and wish I would have made mine. The kit
>is made by someone for VAN and mine did not fit well. Every piece needed
>to be modified to fit. I think I could have made mine in less time and
>for 1/2 the money then the kit cost.
Well, on the other hand, I am VERY pleased with Van's baffle kit. It fit
my IO320-B1A almost perfectly, and saved me untold hours of work.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744
cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | server going berserk?? |
YES! I've received up to 6 copies of messages. I've also received several blank
messages. What's going on?!
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
-----Original Message-----
From: scott [SMTP:mwt.net!acepilot(at)matronics.com]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 1997 12:56 PM
Subject: RV-List: server going berserk??
This morning I got 170 messages, and I had just checked in last night
before going to bed. I found a lot of messages that had no text with
them and appeared to be duplicate entries? Anybody else concur?
Scott(setting up shop & tools for RV-4 project)
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
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| From: | Chris Hinch <chris(at)dcc.govt.nz> |
In the "brew your own" baffle discussion, some one mentioned "plenums".
Could some kind soul take pity on me and explain what a "plenum" is and
what it's used for?
It sounds kinda painful.
Chris
chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
I'm about to layup the fiberglass and epoxy aroung the windshield. I need
a mold release to put on the sliding canopy. I've heard that car wax
works. Does anyone have a suggestions?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Tip lighting wire run |
Greetings folks,
I just received the -8 wing kit..boy, lotsa ribs to flute! As part of
the rib preparations for assembly, I need to drill the holes for the
wiring run out to the Whelan 3 in 1 tip lights that I plan to install. I
hope to get the ones with the power supply for EACH lighting unit..to
avoid running high voltage pulses behind the fuel tanks. Yeah, I
know...no need to worry..but can't be too safe.
Does Whelan include the wiring and what size hole should be drilled in
each rib? I'd find out soon enough if I could afford the lights
now..but the Stock market crash pretty much put a hold on THAT
idea....:(
Thanks folks!
Brian Denk
fluting ribs into eternity...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | operational speeds |
Andy, maybe the guys with flying aircraft can jump in here, in the meanti=
me
here's my 2 cents worth.
RV>First, what is the power off best glide speed in an RV, particularly a=
n
RV>RV-6A?
The CAFE Foundation did tests on Steve Barnards RV6A in 1993 and publishe=
d
a report in Sept 93 Sport Aviation. The report stated the zero thrust spe=
ed
for max lift to drag (glide, best distance zero wind) was 106 MPH, speed
for minimum sink rate was 80.5 MPH (most time to don life vests for
splashdown here in Pacific Northwest, also could be best glide distance
with a strong tailwind). =
I do not know what affect a stopped or windmilling prop would have, howev=
er
I assume the optimum speeds would be about the same with the rate of
descent increasing accordingly.
RV>Second, regarding Vans Vne of 210 mph. should I regard this as true or=
RV>indicated airspeed.
Regard the VNE as indicated unless there are large errors in the system
then use indicated speed corrected for errors (calibrated).
The Boeing 747-400 is red lined at 360 knots and when climbing through
25,000 feet at 355 indicated the true airspeed is around 505 knots.
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
First inspection, no snags, buttoning up empennage. =
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | catbird(at)taylortel.com (TTC Carroll A. Bird) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Rear Seat Back Mod? |
Boris wrote:
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I remember a few months ago there was talk of a mod to the RV-4 rear
> seat back for reinforcement. I haven't seen anything since. Was it real?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Boris Robinson
Call Vans and ask for the F-482 Gusset. they will send the info
and brackets needed. No charge.
Carroll Bird -4 cowling fitted.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master... |
>
>Check out AVweb under avionics corner. Tom Rogers has an article on why
>you absolutely MUST HAVE an avionics master. In fact, if you have room,
>he suggests two!
>Oh, I can't wait until Bob N. sees this!!!! You just can't get better
>entertainment at
>any price.
>
>In summary: He says that, during starting, spikes WILL damage your
>radios. The damage is not obvious but they will fail over time. That's
>about it in a nutshell.
>
>Enjoy.....
>
I picked up on the article yesterday morning and wrote
the author immediately. We shall see what we shall see . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Paul, all I can tell you about the ivoprop in flight adjustable prop is
that it is more or less a 2 speed prop. One pitch for take-off, another
pitch for cruise. More like the old Beech electric props, I suppose. A
regular hydraulic constant speed prop is completely adjustable
throughout it's range and will pretty well hold any rpm you set it at,
within limits. There is a man on the list who can tell you all about
the ivo props, and he highly recommends them. I think the ground
adjustable one is around 800.00 and the in flight adjustable version is
closer to 2000.00. I think his name is Jim Ayers. (forgive me if the
name is wrong) Michael. If you get one let me know how it works out
for you. I, too was interested in these props. I was just scared away
a little by all the rumors I have heard lately.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The great breaker debate . . . |
>Concerning the current thread about the 70 amp alternator fuse that blew
>due to overcurrent caused by a low battery and lots of equipment running.
>
>Did the fuse open in flight or on the ground while running up?
I don't recall that I was told . . . there were two incidences
over about a month.
>
>If this had been an 60 or 70 amp circuit breaker, would it have opened also?
>
If 60 amp, certainly . . . it happens all the time; 70 amp, less
likely.
>Concerning the questionability of resetting an alternator circuit breaker
>when you don't know what caused it to open, would the actions taken by the
>pilot be any different? (I know, everyone wants the option to reset it)
>Wouldn't you just land as soon as possible before your battery went dead
>and then figure out what went wrong?
EXACTLY . . . that's what batteries are for but in both of these
cases, the batteries were in a state of very low charge . . . which
is why the alternator demand was so high. I've suffered exactly
the same event on a rental airplane (60 amp breaker) and continued
flight to destination sans electrics. If one is preparing to launch
into IFR, it's a GOOD idea to have the battery topped off before
launch. You never can tell which gremlin will decide to shut down
the alternator or how he will go about it.
>Is there some type of over-amperage or current limiting device that can be
>installed to warn when high current conditions exist?
>
Alternators are inherently self current limiting but they can
and do vary widely depending on production variations. A 60
amp machine is designed to deliver rated current at worst case
temperatures. Of course, most of the time the alternator is
never called upon for more than 30 amps or so and for only a
few minutes after cranking . . . . it's launching with a flat
battery that carries lurking hazards. I've never personally
seen a 60-amp machine do 70+ amps of output but we now know
they're out there. Sooooooo . . . an upsizing to 80 amps
on the cowl mounted fuse is in order. The goal is to achieve
a design wherein the fuse never nuisance trips but still protects
the wiring.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HOW TO & Medical waiver |
Question.
If I'm to be gone for two weeks, do I unsubscribe until I'm back or what?
At 40-50 per day, I don't know the limits of what ever operates this stuff,
but I don't want all of you to get a bunch of 'can not deliver' or what ever.
Comment.
For those who were so nice to respond to my medical loss back in Feb., I now
have it back. The problem was NOT with FAA, they couldn't have been nicer
about it, even called me over the phone to expedite it. The problem was
with the Drs. not getting the info to the FAA. After one wait on my part
for 3 months, thinking the Drs. office had sent what they told me they
would, FAA called and said that they still had not received such and such,
did I plan on dropping my request for waiver or what? A call to the Drs.
office got it in gear and 2 and 1/2 weeks later I have my waiver. The lady
that called me about it even called the Drs. office to help get them moving
in the right direction. How do I know? The Drs. office called me and
apologized after they said they got a call from FAA!!!!
So far, I'm batting 1000 with the FAA. They have been only nice and
reasonable on every thing I've had business with them, aircraft
certification and medical waiver.
I say this because of all of the negative stuff I keep hearing about them. I
know not every one in any large group is a nice person trying like hell to
do their job, but on the same vein, not every one in FAA is a sadistic bastard.
Maybe it's just that God takes care of idiots and fools and in my case he
has both to work with.
I know this doesn't have a thing to do with building RVs, but there has been
many complaints about FAA, so thought I would post the other side of it.
Keep building and flying!
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Rear Seat Back Mod? |
Hi Boris,
It was real. I don't have the plans in front of me but the bulkhead the
seat leans against could give way and possibly send your passenger into
the baggage compartment. A gusset (I guess that is what you call it)
can be added about shoulder height behind the bulkhead, connecting the
bulkhead to the longeron a little better. Sorry about the lack of
technical terminology here, but I think that was the main Idea. I'm
sure any one else can add to this or correct it. See ya. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Duberstein <Allen_Duberstein(at)ccm.fm.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID g... |
Text item:
Subject:
Re: RV-List: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good
---------------------------------
$1400 with coupler for handheld GPS....$1300 without.
allen
From: owner-rv-list @ matronics.com AT SMTPGATE on 10/27/97 04:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good
can someone give me an idea on the cost of a single axis navaid auto
pilot?
thanks to all
chris marion
rv-6 WAITING on wings
|
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" | | & put the word "[un]subscribe"
|
|
Text item: External Message Header
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and may be ignored unless there are problems.
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Subject: Re: RV-List: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good
?
From: chris marion <cinci.infi.net!flyrv6(at)matronics.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:42:29 +0000
>Received: by matronics.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
by netcomsv.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.01)) id
NAA03502;
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EAA17605 for <Allen_Duberstein@ccm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Rear Seat Back Mod? |
Boris,
Call Van's Aircraft and they will send you the bracket kit.
Bruce Bell, RV-4 #2888 Lubbock, Texas Baffles and cowling in work
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
>
>In the "brew your own" baffle discussion, some one mentioned "plenums".
>Could some kind soul take pity on me and explain what a "plenum" is and
>what it's used for?
>
>It sounds kinda painful.
>
>Chris
>chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
Chris, it is a totally encosed engine baffle, top as well as sides
and back. No unplanned airleaks.
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | compressor question |
--------
Tony,
The best way to permanently mount the compressor to the floor are concrete
anchors. Just match the size of the mounting holes on the compressor feet
with the appropriate lag bolt. You shouldn't need an anchor longer than
about 1" or so. With a hammer drill and a concrete bit, the hole will be
easy to drill. Wear a dust mask and face shield, though - stuff flies
everywhere. Any hardware store or lumber yard can help with the anchors
and lag screws. They are kinda' sorta' like a two piece "concrete rivet"
which is removable with a little effort. You can always patch the holes
later if you decide to move or remove the unit.
The harbor freight stuff is fine and probably as good a quality as
anywhere else. That "all in one" unit is probably the ticket.
Chris Browne
Buying Tools, RV6A emp next month
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
>
>In the "brew your own" baffle discussion, some one mentioned "plenums".
>Could some kind soul take pity on me and explain what a "plenum" is and
>what it's used for?
>
>It sounds kinda painful.
>
>Chris
>chris(at)dcc.govt.nz
Chris,
A plenum is a kind of air director which will direct cooling air in the
most efficient manner. Cooling air creates a lot of drag and a plenum most
efficiently directs the air where it is needed and nowhere else. If you
ever get a chance to see inside the cowl of Nemisis (I've seen pictures)
you will see what a plenum is. It is usually made of fiberglass or carbon
fiber and is part of the upper cowl and allows for the cooling air to go
directly where it's needed and then out, thus preventing the whole cowl
from becoming a pressure vessel. Not a very good expaination but I
hope this helps. Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bs(at)cbtek.com (Bill Shaw) |
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
Dave-
A friend of mine who's building a Glasair - Super II says to use a good
carnauba paste wax. Works Great!! I would also use the recommended very
soft cloths for application & polishing. :>)
Bill Shaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Prime VA-146 flange bearing? |
> Regarding the bearing, I did mask off the end and
>ended up with a little less than perfect coating in that area - but
>still better than nothing.
Or, save time by not masking and just use a small brush or Q-tip to dab on
some primer left over from a bigger job.
Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
>In the "brew your own" baffle discussion, some one mentioned "plenums".
>Could some kind soul take pity on me and explain what a "plenum" is and
>what it's used for?
>Chris
Chris,
A plenum is an enclosure over the baffles, usually made of aluminum. Some
builders have molded a top cover out of fiberglass. I like the aluminum
cover, better. This eleminates having to fit the side baffles uniformly to
the bottom of the top cowl and you don't have to install the baffle seals.
A plenum system lessens cooling drag and is probably easier to fabricate
than a conventional system. Although I chickened out installing a plenum on
my first RV, I will put one on my second one. If you know someone with a
Cessna 170, I think they all had a plenum chamber. My 1948 model did.
One "lister" who keeps a very low profile on the list fabricated a really
nice plenum on his 180 Lycoming. He's not flying yet (get going, Warren)
His name is Warren Bishop and his E-mail is: wemkbish(at)nponline.net He
came up with some really slick ideas for attaching the top cover (which I
plan on stealing for my 2nd RV). Maybe there is someone on the list who can
scan some pictures of Warren's installation onto someone's web page?
I know of one plenum equipped, 150 hp RV-6 flying but he's not on the
list. I'll try to either get Bob Swanson, Las Vegas, NV on the list or will
have him E-mail me any comments and will post them to the list.
Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
>I'm about to layup the fiberglass and epoxy aroung the windshield. I need
>a mold release to put on the sliding canopy. I've heard that car wax
>works. Does anyone have a suggestions?
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Dave,
Boy, you hit a sore spot, there. I spent three hours yesterday trying to
repair (sand, sand, sand) my empenage mold because evidently, PVA mold
release and Aeropoxy don't work together. PVA has worked well in the past
with Safe-T-Poxy and with vinylester resin.
When I laid up my empenage fairing on the airplane, I covered the aluminum
with adhesive backed, shelf paper and then applied a coat of Johnson Paste
Wax. This worked very well. I assume that you're laying up the fiberglass
on the canopy and then need to pop the fairing off. (I built a tip up so am
not familiar with the slider). Something I learned from the Sheridan, WY
airplane group (mostly compost guys) is that you can lay up directly on 100
mph tape and don't need to wax. But, for your purposes, I would imagine
that the duct tape might leave too course of texture on the fiberglass.
Also, I wouldn't experiment on my canopoy with this method or, if you did
use duct tape, I'd wax it.
Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
>Well, on the other hand, I am VERY pleased with Van's baffle kit. It fit
>my IO320-B1A almost perfectly, and saved me untold hours of work.
>Dave Barnhart
Although I hate "me too" type of messages, in this case it might be
appropriate. So far, I've read one good and one bad comment on Van's baffle
kit. Van's kit fit my O-320 E2A very well and I felt that the kit
represented a good value. There is still alot of work to do but it still
saved a lot of build time.
Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re;Everett Hatch Crash |
The news tonite here at said that Everett Hatch may have been doing low level
aerobatics at the time of the crash, according to a witness. Estimated
altitude, 800 feet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Gerges <dan.gerges(at)rocketmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE:New on the List |
Hi everyone, another new RV fanatic checking in.
After plowing through hundreds of pages of archives I
decided to get with the program and sign on. I have
two 3 inch binders bulging with info on RV's and
building-my wife says I'm going over the edge.
I have not flown for many years due to raising a son
and career, and a passion for flyfishing.
That all changed at the Evergreen Antique Fly-in at
Vancouver this last summer. Among the hundreds of
museum quality aircraft were two RV's. A fellow was
sleeping under the wing of a yellow one. He must have
heard me making a fuss about it and woke up. Turns
out he is a contract engineer for Van's; wish I could
recall his name. He told me about the company and the
airplane and I has hooked.
________________________________________________________________________________
flying again. Then I learned of the annual Labor Day
Fly-in at Van's - we went on Sunday. Bill Benedict
was giving rides, and my wife and I stood in line and
went aloft in the blue company 6A.
After loops, rolls, wingovers, and stalls that
wouldn't stall, I was a basket case for an RV kit.
Bill let me fly most of the time right down to short
final. It all came back so easily! My wife was hooked
as well-lucky me.
Then the factor tour, including a rare tour of the
fabricating shop in the back.
Now I just have to get my kid thru two more years of
college and we can begin to realize our dream.
I live in Battle Ground, Washington, not far from
North Plains, OR. Anyone in the Clark County area
that needs help building please call. I'd love to get
involved. (360) 687-7333.
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
#! cunbatch
??#B??????9 d??!C?0t??
4A?Tg??BDL??-4?@?0???
1?`?-?-??^?U????Q?jfxb?0?qC
?@C{3?DU?&?? ?`?-j?
$?aC?3??CA$?
d?qG
8?t?
8?DRSTZ?!
o?AB-8?a??O??
s?S?Q???T@?o?A??g??D???'?
6?.......
`
OK, so what's your point?
Chris Browne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Taken fron rec.avaition.homebult---
BC&G Holzwarth wrote:
>
> The radio is reporting this morning that Everett Hatch (sp?)
> died Sunday (26 Oct) in a crash of his RV near Aumsville, OR.
> Another pilot said he rolled left to inverted, and dove in.
>
> Everett is (was) one of the principals at Powersport,
> developing rotary engines for sport aviation.
>
> Benton Holzwarth 27 Oct 97
> bcgh ta teleport tod com
All of the above is, sadly, confirmed. A knowledgable source strongly
suggests pilot incapacitation.
Ed Wischmeyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tip lighting wire run |
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com (Don R. Jordan) |
I installed 1/2x .058- 6061-T6 tubing 1 inch below top skin & 2 inches
aft of spar. Does anyone know whether I can run High voltage through
there for the strobe lights ???
Don Jordan, RV-6A, #24330
Mansfield, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>I'm about to layup the fiberglass and epoxy aroung the windshield. I
>need a mold release to put on the sliding canopy. I've heard that car
wax
>works. Does anyone have a suggestions?
Hi Dave. Can't put off the glass any longer huh? I used a pretty thick
layer of car wax on the front of the slider, and figured the canopy would
slide right out when finished. I gave a tug on it and nothing happened.
It was a bit of a scare, but I just used a soft plastic "cake batter"
type spatula and worked it under the fiberglass. Once you get the corner
of it under the glass, then it just slides right around the canopy and
pops it loose. Worked great.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Does anyone know if there is a difference between "in-flight adjustable"
and
>constant speed props? I do not know if I should spend $5000 on a CS
>or $800 for an Ivoprop in-flight adjustable. Any suggestions?
Adjustable props are only adjustable by the pilot. You can change the
pitch from the cockpit, usually with a toggle switch. A constant-speed
prop, in addition to being adjustable from the cockpit, will stay at the
same RPM even if you change the power setting. It automatically changes
pitch to compensate for power changes.
Now in *MY OPINION* (insert 2 page disclaimer here, and don Nomex
firesuit) I feel that Ivo props work great in low power applications, (I
have a 3 blade adjustable on my ultralight) but I don' t feel that they
are a real viable option for Lycoming type engines. They have had a lot
of trouble in the past, and to be fair, most of the problems have been
solved. However, there still isn't a lot of proven operational time on
them in this application, and there seems to be a lot of inspection
necessary to keep them from departing the aircraft.
I would prefer to spend less than $800 on a good wood prop, or the $1400
on the fixed pitch Sensenich. Unless you want to shoot the whole
bankroll on the CS, which is a real sweet way to go.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pickling advice |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Ed,
>The reason I was using "real" oil is that Shell has an anti-corrosion
>additive. This was primarly for infrequent flyers, but I thought it
>would be good for my purposes. I have 18 qts of 15-50 in there now and
am
>thinking your idea at .59/qt may not be such a bad idea.
>Do you think there would be any probem with mixing a little Pennzoil
>15-40 for the remainder. I have quite a bit around here.
I was concerned too. But straight from the Lycoming tech's mouth, you
don't have to worry about additives, or superior quality, because the
idea is to completely fill the engine. If there is no air, there is no
moisture, and no corrosion. I don't see any problem mixing any kind of
motor oil with the Shell, but I'm certainly no expert. You might give
Lyc a call about it.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | alternator cooling |
Didn't get much of a response to my question last time, thought I would try
again:
Is it necessary to install some kind of alt. cooling?.
I understand that if used it should be routed to the back of the alt. Anybody
not do this? Any problems? Should I bother with it???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
<< Does anyone know if there is a difference between "in-flight adjustable"
and
constant speed props? >>
A constant speed prop uses a engine mounted governor (calibrated oil pump)
that, once set by the pilot, hydraulically varies the prop blade pitch based
on engine load (manifold pressure) to maintain constant rpm automatically
similar to an automatic transmission in a car. An in flight adjustable uses
the pilot to contiuously control the pitch like a manual transmission.
This is of course just a rough analogy.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
<< can someone give me an idea on the cost of a single axis navaid auto
pilot? >>
When I bought my Navaid it was $1300 complete.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass gear leg fairings |
<< Please send me the address, EMail or otherwise, for fiberglass gear leg
fairings, for A RV-6. >>
Check out Tracy Saylor listed in the Yeller Pages at
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Could some kind soul take pity on me and explain what a "plenum" is and
what it's used for? >>
It is a self contained air pressure recovery system that is somewhat more
effecient than the cowled baffle arrangement with the sealing gasket strips.
Instead it is a complete intake structure that doesn't rely on the presence
of the cowling for cooling. It has a top (made of aluminum or...shudder,
fiberglass) that directs the entry of cooling air more effectively than would
the top cowling. All the fast guys go this route.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (JAMES E AYERS) |
writes:
>
>Does anyone know if there is a difference between "in-flight
>adjustable" and
>constant speed props? I do not know if I should spend $5000 on a CS
>or $800
>for an Ivoprop in-flight adjustable. Any suggestions?
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A QB waiting on kit
Hi Paul and All,
The CS prop has a cockpit lever which adjusts the rpm of the engine in
flight by using the prop. The throttle changes fuel consumption (and
airspeed).
The "in-flight" adjustable prop changes the pitch of the prop. This
changes the rpm of the engine. The throttle changes the rpm of the
engine, also.
I have 50plus hours in a Cherokee Arrow with a CS prop, and 100plus hours
flying my RV-3 with the Ivoprop "in-flight" adjustable prop. The biggest
difference is in the lever you use to operate the prop. A lever for the
CS prop, and a switch for the electric "in-flight" adjustable prop.
You're working off of the tachometer for the rpm with either prop.
BTW, for a RV with the Lycoming engine, the Ivoprop Magnum "in-flight"
adjustable prop is the correct prop. The two blade prop sells for $1740
and the three blade prop sells for $1960.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joseph Matza" <matzaj(at)gghlaw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: unreadable message |
uucp(at)matronics.com wrote:
> =
> =
> #! cunbatch
> =1F=9D=90#B=80=90=E3=A6=CC=9D9 d=C0=C0!C=01=940t=D0=E8
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=BB=A9'=836=E0
>
your attached message was unreadable.
`=D1B=13a=A4=C1FQ=135=F1=06Rl=94=A5=A10=CCp=C4=1B=80=D1=82=82=995=08=02=08=
(\qa=0E5
> =E5=CAQ=86=19=13=A5=94=91=1D =98=86=9Aj:=CC
> 8=04=91=1C=12=AE=01=82=12.`7=C6=11u\=88!Bw4&=AB=0E
> P=993=08I=B8=01=02=B1=93=8E=B1.=98=16=8FYF=99g=A6=B9f=9Bm=BD=19=A7=C3t=82=
=B0=AE=19t=E4=C1F=1D@<-=D3=9C$=A10=04=B1=F82=E7=86=CFH=94=D1=9A=1Bg=DC=11=
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}=B7=C2pt=C5=86=84=D6=0ET=C7=D8=8BG=E4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv(at)tppal.com> |
Does anyone know if there is a difference between "in-flight adjustable" and
constant speed props? I do not know if I should spend $5000 on a CS or $800
for an Ivoprop in-flight adjustable. Any suggestions?
Paul Besing
RV-6A QB waiting on kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release wax supplier |
<< I'm about to layup the fiberglass and epoxy aroung the windshield. I need
a mold release to put on the sliding canopy. I've heard that car wax
works. Does anyone have a suggestions?
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB >>
Dave:
Epoxies seem to be sensitive to the type of wax used for this purpose. I had
to toss more than a few sets of gear leg covers because I used to wrong
stuff, which caused inter-layer delamination. This would be a disaster if it
would occur to the part you are going to make. Sam James (wheelpants & root
fairings) got me on the right track, tho.
We use a mold release wax from TR Industries in our gear leg cover molds.
Works v good for that, and making those dang intersection fairings at the top
& bottom of the legs also. I suggest using the wax over some sort of
protectant film (tape or plastic film of some sort).
TR Industries
PO Box 1533
Lynwood, CA 90262
I don't have their phone #, as I buy from a distributor in FL. I'm sure they
can tell you about a dist nearer to you, or sell direct. The can lists many
other products made by the same company.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Rear Seat Back Mod? |
Boris wrote:
>
>
> Dear Listers,
>
> I remember a few months ago there was talk of a mod to the RV-4 rear
> seat back for reinforcement. I haven't seen anything since. Was it real?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Boris Robinson
> starting fuse skinning.
>
Seems like I remember Bill Benedict making a post about this subject
but I never recevied anything in the mail about it.
I will however make a gusset to go behind each side of the F407
bulkhead.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass gear leg fairings |
<< Please send me the address, EMail or otherwise, for fiberglass gear leg
fairings, for A RV-6. Thanks in advance.
Bob Reeves
Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4
Hidden River Airport,
Sarasota, Florida >>
Bob:
I sell 1 pc fiberglass fairings to fit the -4, -6, -6A, and -8. $150, plus
shipping. Or, I will reduce this price for multiple orders.
I sell "Aeroflash " brand strobe systems, also.
Check six!
Mark
HR2 186 hrs
mlfred(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
chris marion wrote:
>
>
> can someone give me an idea on the cost of a single axis navaid auto
> pilot?
> thanks to all
> chris marion
> rv-6 WAITING on wings
>
Plan on about 1350$. If you do buy the navaid, you will not have to
buy a turn coordinator so you save about 350-400$.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
Dave Barnhart wrote:
>
>
> > I bought the kit and wish I would have made mine. The kit
> >is made by someone for VAN and mine did not fit well. Every piece needed
> >to be modified to fit. I think I could have made mine in less time and
> >for 1/2 the money then the kit cost.
>
> Well, on the other hand, I am VERY pleased with Van's baffle kit. It fit
> my IO320-B1A almost perfectly, and saved me untold hours of work.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> rv-6 sn 23744
> cowling
>
These are my feelings as well. I do have one question about the gap
seals, the instructions say to use lacing cord to hold some of the
seals together. what do I use for lacing cord?
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
<< I need a mold release to put on the sliding canopy. I've heard that car
wax
works. Does anyone have a suggestions? >>
I used some 1.5" wide polyethylene tape that was about .010" thk around the
front bow on top of the acrylic. This provides for a nice clearance gap and
releases well. I also used a little car wax on it just to be sure. After
the layup (I used vinylester), I hit it once lightly with the heel of my hand
and the canopy just slid open.
Nothing succeeds like success.
-GV
(RV-6A N1GV now in paint shop)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Automatic Pilots: is NAVAID good ? |
Chris, the last time I checked the Navaid Devices auto-pilot cost $1300.
Chris Brooks
Murfreesboro,TN
RV6, Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodney Boyd <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu> |
=22NEW FAR=27s???
Rodney Boyd
>>> 10/28/97 10:00am >>>
=23=21 cunbatch
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s?*S?Q???*T=40?*=B6o?A??g??D???=27?*6?.......
`
OK, so what=27s your point?
Chris Browne
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
----------
> From: Scott Gesele <icsnet.com!scottg(at)matronics.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> way in an RV. First, you will not be saving $180. The raw materials
aren't
> free, especially the airseal fabric. Second, even by using Van's kit,
this
> job is one pain in the butt. I spent too many hours installing my
baffles.
> This is one of those jobs that looks a lot easier than it is. Third,
Van's
> kit works. The parts are made well and the bends are better than I can
do.
I would never suggest that anything that Van offers is not worth it. I
merely point out that you can do this IF you choose to. Granted I had some
scrap aluminium, but you can buy some very cheap at the scrap metal yard.
A/c quality.
Lastly, some builders would never build there own spar, tanks, panel,seats,
whatever. And that is OK. I am not trying to belittle anyone or dictate. It
is MERELY an observation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
Bob, I don't know how well it would conform to the compound curves, but
I've had good luck with 2" cellaphane clear packing tape. Cellaphane
worked for Epoxy, but I've never tried it with polyester.
Chris Brooks
Murfreesboro,TN
RV6, Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
----------
> From: aol.com!Cafgef(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Making your own baffles ?
there a set of plans for a plenum? I've heard that there is better
> cooling with a plenum. What has been the experience with RV-6 plenums?
Wish I could say that there are plans for a plenum, but there are none
around that I know of. What I would do is look at the photos in Bingelis's
engine book and ask around and finally just make up some baffles and keep
fitting poster paper or light al. scrap pieces until I had it
right.....Sorry...Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)GEON.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip lighting wire run |
Don,
Just be sure you use wiring rated for the voltage you plan to use. I
have a similar installation (except I am using thin-wall PVC pipe as
conduit) and am going to run strobe leads from a central unit to the
wing tips. I called the strobe manufacturer (Federal Signal) and asked
what the max voltage the unit generates and was told it was no greater
than 400-volts. The person sounded very competent and I believed him.
Therefore, I used 600-volt, 18-ga four conductor shielded wire. Three
of the conductors are for the strobe and I plan to use the fourth as
positive 12-volts for the nav light. I feel like this will work well -
does anyone believe otherwise?
I have modified an industrial alarm/warning strobe unit for my RV. The
enclosure was aluminum and it uses 12-volts. I have already rewired it
and installed locking lead connectors for the wiring runs. Trial
operation with 14-foot leads and Whelen strobe/nav light units work
great. BTW, my folks live in Mansfield. My dad is thinking hard about
buying an RV-6A - maybe we can look you up when I go visit.
Bryan Jones
JONESB(at)GEON.COM
> I installed 1/2x .058- 6061-T6 tubing 1 inch below top skin & 2 inches
>
> aft of spar. Does anyone know whether I can run High voltage through
> there for the strobe lights ???
>
>
> Don Jordan, RV-6A, #24330
> Mansfield, Tx
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Builders/Groups in NYC area |
Anyone on-line currently building in the New York Metro area? Any RV
builders groups in the metro area?
Mike Kiess (RV-6AQB on the way!)
Tuxedo NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Auto Conversion/Aerobatics |
Does anyone have any reason to believe an auto conversion we be any more or
any less reliable in an RV while doing aggressive aerobatics?
Thanks in advance.
Mike Kiess (RV-6AQB on the way!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mold Release- don't do this, and some info |
<< Dave,
Boy, you hit a sore spot, there. I spent three hours yesterday trying to
repair (sand, sand, sand) my empenage mold because evidently, PVA mold
release and Aeropoxy don't work together. PVA has worked well in the past
with Safe-T-Poxy and with vinylester resin. >>
Yes, it's true that epoxies and PVA don't get along as well as some other
types of releases. When I started to make these (epoxy resin) gear leg
covers, I got a wealth of info from Sam James (wheelpants & root fairings).
Specifically, he said you COULD use PVA as a release for epoxy, but you'd
better get the layup out of the mold as soon as it kicked off. No delay!
Seems the epoxy will eat into the PVA after about 8 hrs or so, and now you've
got one big pc of junk. He strongly recommended TR brand mold release wax. I
touted my ability to use Johnson's floor wax against Sam's better advice, but
this activity soon turned to some kind of disaster, too, as predicted.
Johnson's will contaminate the epoxy resin, and cause inter-layer
delamination. Don't use it! There will be no recovery from the resulting
inverted flat spin! (Headed out to sea, of course)
Why not make the floppies out of inexpensive polyester (using PVA as a
release), and cover them with two layers of epoxy (three at the edges)? With
the upper layers of epoxy being more dimensionally stable, there shouldn't be
a problem with weave popping. Epoxy sticks to just about anything VERY well.
Make sure no release agent is on the surface to be bonded, of course. Epoxy
is more suceptible (sp?) to UV damage, so use a good primer to stop UV
penetration.
Sam recommends 087 resin (5 gal min purchase) from Suncoast (Talk to Jerry)
at 800-237-9511. I'd use some of their 8 oz cloth to make the things from- I
use this cloth and one other trade secret to make my leg covers. Get a
catalog of the many professional type tools & supplies they carry.
And get Sam's tape! 941-675-4493. This guy helped Noah build the Ark! You did
know it was fiberglass, didn't you? ;-)
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv(at)tppal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Thanks Ed for the info. Since I have never flown a CS, I do not see the
benefit of changing power setting and keeping the same rpm. If you
increased the power setting, wouldn't you want a faster prop RPM? How do
you benefit?
Thanks again..
Paul
>
>>Does anyone know if there is a difference between "in-flight adjustable"
>and
>>constant speed props? I do not know if I should spend $5000 on a CS
>>or $800 for an Ivoprop in-flight adjustable. Any suggestions?
>
>
>
>Adjustable props are only adjustable by the pilot. You can change the
>pitch from the cockpit, usually with a toggle switch. A constant-speed
>prop, in addition to being adjustable from the cockpit, will stay at the
>same RPM even if you change the power setting. It automatically changes
>pitch to compensate for power changes.
>
>
>
>Now in *MY OPINION* (insert 2 page disclaimer here, and don Nomex
>firesuit) I feel that Ivo props work great in low power applications, (I
>have a 3 blade adjustable on my ultralight) but I don' t feel that they
>are a real viable option for Lycoming type engines. They have had a lot
>of trouble in the past, and to be fair, most of the problems have been
>solved. However, there still isn't a lot of proven operational time on
>them in this application, and there seems to be a lot of inspection
>necessary to keep them from departing the aircraft.
>
>
>
>I would prefer to spend less than $800 on a good wood prop, or the $1400
>on the fixed pitch Sensenich. Unless you want to shoot the whole
>bankroll on the CS, which is a real sweet way to go.
>
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
>ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Chris Hinch wrote:
>
> In the "brew your own" baffle discussion, some one mentioned "plenums".
> Could some kind soul take pity on me and explain what a "plenum" is and
> what it's used for?
>
> It sounds kinda painful.
I believe he means to put a cover across the top of the baffling rather
than allowing a seal to the cowling. Among other benefits is an assured
seal and, I think, at least some functionality while on the ground and
with the canopy removed. Or, I could be wrong. I haven't gotten that
far by a long shot.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | fsi(at)Earthlink.net (Richard Tichy) |
>
>
><< Could some kind soul take pity on me and explain what a "plenum" is and
> what it's used for? >>
>
>It is a self contained air pressure recovery system that is somewhat more
>effecient than the cowled baffle arrangement with the sealing gasket strips.
> Instead it is a complete intake structure that doesn't rely on the presence
>of the cowling for cooling. It has a top (made of aluminum or...shudder,
>fiberglass) that directs the entry of cooling air more effectively than would
>the top cowling. All the fast guys go this route.
>
>-GV
>
>
>
> | |
> |unsubscribe |
> | |
> | |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
>Didn't get much of a response to my question last time, thought I would try
>again:
>
>Is it necessary to install some kind of alt. cooling?.
>I understand that if used it should be routed to the back of the alt. Anybody
>not do this? Any problems? Should I bother with it???
>
I responded to the original but since Matt's server is suffering
from epilepsy, I'll try it again. . . .
On Lycomings, the belt driven alternators generally do well without
special cooling considerations with the following caveats:
If your alternator has an external fan, by all means, leave it on
even if it runs "backwards" . . . there's a popular aftermarket
offering that removes the external fan laboring under the erroneous
notion that a centrifugal fan is seriously crippled by reverse
rotation. It's efficiency is indeed lower but it's still a
very effective air mover.
Don't reduce pulley size in order to enhance bearing life. I've
seen some oversized pulleys offered as the solution to shortened
bearing life . . . the stock automotive pulley on many alternators
cruises the alternator at over 10,000 RPM on a Lycoming. This is
okay IF the rotor is well balanced and it IMPROVES cooling air
flow at cruise . . . especially with built in fans.
Another advantage of smaller pulley size is more output from the
alternator at taxi speeds . . . a very desirable mode of operation
if you need to top of a low battery before departure.
Having said all that, I'm not aware of ANY real engineering data
being gathered on alternator cooling in RVs (or any other
homebuilt for that matter). People who report "no problems"
may have never loaded their alternator up fully on a hot day,
Vy climb. Sooooo . . . if anyone out there would REALLY like
to know how good it is, I'll supply test equipment and help
write a test plan to deduce and document the facts for publication
on our website.
This is NOT a trivial test . . . the alternator needs to be
thermocoupled and a portable load bank used to apply electrical
loads. It takes two people . . . one to fly and the other to
twist knobs and write down numbers. Figure pull and replace
time x 2 plus 1-3 hours of flight time.
In the mean time, I've not heard feedback from any builders
that suggest additional cooling needed for alternators
on RVs.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Rear Seat Back Mod? |
worldnet.att.net!craig-RV4(at)matronics.com wrote:
> > I remember a few months ago there was talk of a mod to the RV-4 rear
> > seat back for reinforcement. I haven't seen anything since. Was it real?
IIRC it was described in the April RVator. Basically a triangular
flanged gusset on each side.
A friend with an almost-finished RV-4 wrote to Vans asking for details
and they sent him the parts gratis. He said it was quite awkward to fit
them though.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com (Don R. Jordan) |
>Chris, A plenum is an enclosure over the baffles, usually made of
aluminum.
I am a long way from cowling work, but like what your are saying. Please
post any thing new. Thanks
Don Jordan, RV-6A, #24330
Arlington, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | Alligator Squeezers |
The supply of used small C-types squeezers has dried up, but I can
find the larger C-types along and the smaller alligator types. The
larger C-types (up to 3/16" rivets) sound unwieldy. Anyone used an
alligator squeezer and liked it? Seems to me that alignment for flush
riveting with an alligator squeezer would be difficult.
Chris Browne
Buying Tools for -6A emp kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ways to heat a garage |
| From: | spml(at)juno.com (shirley a lavigne) |
I am planning on building an rv-6,but first must find a way to heat my
garage. It is huge, andonly a few stepps from my home office. I had
thought of a propane
salamander unit. It would give instant heat , which is all I need while
I'm working out there, but a fellow who is building an RV-6A told me the
propane gives off a residue
in the air, which adheres to the aluminium.
Any suggestions?
PAT LAVIGNE ROCHESTER,NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Poor Mans Glass Panel Moving Map, Has Anybody |
Done This ?
Scott,
I have the Mentor Plus software with the Rockwell PCMCIA GPS. It's a pretty
neat package. I have a laptop and have used it over a period of about three
years, but never flying. The software is complex and without another body
in the aircraft just to operate it I would have a problem flying and
working the software at the same time. Also, my screen washes out in
sunlight and it only worked well in very subdued light. Working the mouse
in an airplane is difficult at best. There are control key strokes that you
can use to navigate around the menus, but you have to memorize them. I also
have the digitized sectionals, which redraw much too slowly to be of any
use (at least with my 75 MHz system), but they have way too much
information to interpret on the fly anyway.
The bottom line for me was that by the time you spend enough money to fix
up a system you could buy a pretty nice made for aviation rig, which is
what I finally did. I bought a Garmin 195. It doesn't have all the fancy
colors and boat loads of features like the Mentor Plus package, but more
than adequately does the job in the cockpit. It is intuitive and doesn't
unnecessarily distract your attention from the "task at hand". I suspect a
cheaper purpose built GPS would be an even better value. The feature I find
most useful is the HSI, which is pretty simple. I find the moving map
display less useful while using the GPS to navigate. Maybe it's just that I
have my hands full keeping the airplane out of the mud.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. I'm sure there will be lots of
opinions on this topic.
-Gene Gottschalk
RV-6A
Frederick, Maryland
>
>Has anybody taken a PC laptop, and dissociated the screen from the laptop
>unit, and then mounted the screen on their panel ?
>
>Has anybody used the Mentor moving map GPS software that shows your
>airplanes position on a highly detailed, colored VFR moving map on your PC ?
>
>Since I already have the GPS, and unused laptop, I would only have to
>purchase the software ( about $500 ).
>
>This would be substanially less than the 7,000 to 10,000 glass panels I have
>seen at flyins.
>
>
>
>As always, any comments are greatly appreciated !
>
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com (wondering if I should take the PC screen off
>myself ..., those wires are tiny)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: HS rivet line centering] |
Frank van der Hulst wrote:
snipped
> Check out how the HS attaches to the fuselage. The distance between
> front and rear spars *might* be important for that.
Frank,
The distance is important. It took a while, but I received the info I
needed to make a decision. I've shortened the ribs by 1/16" rather than
1/8". I measured the distance between spars from the front of the rear
spar to the rearmost of the front spar (HS-602). The critical dimension
is to the front spar attach points (HS-810 & HS-814). So actually I was
1/32" long on that dimension. Of the four innermost rivet points on the
front spar (left top, left bottom, right top & right bottom), only one
was off by 1/8". The other three were off by 3/32". By moving the spar
back 1/16", I will have the rivets within 1/32" of center and my
distance between spar attach points will be minus 1/32" rather than plus
1/32".
> How is having a line of holes down the exact centre of the spar any
> better than having them slightly off, but still 2D from the edge?
Suppose I need to install oversize rivets at those points sometime in
the future. The extra distance to the edge will allow maintaining edge
distance even with the oversize rivet(s).
> How much worse is that than having a flange rivetted to the rib?
The repair flange will have 4 rivets holding it to the rib web, four
rivets holding it to the front spar & 2 rivets holding it to the
skins/side flanges. I made the repair flange U shaped so that it ties
into the side flanges as well. It's hard to describe, I'll email you a
photo when I get them developed.
> If it was me, I'd just drill it.
Because I do not yet have your experience, I'm more anal! :-)
IMHO, what you should be aiming to do is build a plane that meets the
specs everywhere, not one that exceeds them here and there. Otherwise
you'll spend a lot of effort making a perfect HS that will stand
(perhaps) 12G but will be attached to a plane
> with wings that, although perfect, will only take 9G.
I just want to make sure it will take the +6g's. You may well be
correct, but I'm concerned with MY peace of mind, not yours. I do
appreciate your comments though.
Thanks
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 empennage
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: HS rivet line centering] |
Frank van der Hulst wrote:
snipped
> Check out how the HS attaches to the fuselage. The distance between
> front and rear spars *might* be important for that.
Frank,
The distance is important. It took a while, but I received the info I
needed to make a decision. I've shortened the ribs by 1/16" rather than
1/8". I measured the distance between spars from the front of the rear
spar to the rearmost of the front spar (HS-602). The critical dimension
is to the front spar attach points (HS-810 & HS-814). So actually I was
1/32" long on that dimension. Of the four innermost rivet points on the
front spar (left top, left bottom, right top & right bottom), only one
was off by 1/8". The other three were off by 3/32". By moving the spar
back 1/16", I will have the rivets within 1/32" of center and my
distance between spar attach points will be minus 1/32" rather than plus
1/32".
> How is having a line of holes down the exact centre of the spar any
> better than having them slightly off, but still 2D from the edge?
Suppose I need to install oversize rivets at those points sometime in
the future. The extra distance to the edge will allow maintaining edge
distance even with the oversize rivet(s).
> How much worse is that than having a flange rivetted to the rib?
The repair flange will have 4 rivets holding it to the rib web, four
rivets holding it to the front spar & 2 rivets holding it to the
skins/side flanges. I made the repair flange U shaped so that it ties
into the side flanges as well. It's hard to describe, I'll email you a
photo when I get them developed.
> If it was me, I'd just drill it.
Because I do not yet have your experience, I'm more anal! :-)
IMHO, what you should be aiming to do is build a plane that meets the
specs everywhere, not one that exceeds them here and there. Otherwise
you'll spend a lot of effort making a perfect HS that will stand
(perhaps) 12G but will be attached to a plane
> with wings that, although perfect, will only take 9G.
I just want to make sure it will take the +6g's. You may well be
correct, but I'm concerned with MY peace of mind, not yours. I do
appreciate your comments though.
Thanks
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 empennage
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
This is an easy analysis for me (now). It is a one hour job to install the
blast tube and the cost in cooling air, money, and or horsepower loss is
minute.
Yes you should bother with it. I didn't bother with it and my alternator
failed at 25 hours, due to diode failure. Although the repairman and others
told me it wasn't necessarily a heat problem, I installed a blast tube after
I got new diodes. Very simple scat tube from forward deck of baffle secured
with safety wire to point at aft of alternator. I also re installed the
cooling fan and a "small" (regular size) pulley. No alternator problems in
50 hours since and no apparent loss of airspeed or cooling to engine.
Personally I feel a blast tube is necessary on an RV-6, but the fan probably
not. Will probably re install big pulley and remove fan at my 100 hour
point, just to test out the idea. A lot of people are running that way with
no problems.
There remains the question of whether either is required on an alternator
with an internal fan? I would say yes due to the hot position of the
alternator.
Now that you have started asking electrical questions, you will find they are
endless. There is a lot of superstition involved.
Good luck. Sorry I couldn't give you a technical answer.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel pick up tube |
First time builder so I'm not much of a contributor. Working with that
awful proseal on the fuel tanks. My quetion to some of u flying rv types
is did u clamp down the fuel pickup tube inside the tank??????
Joe/wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
In a message dated 10/28/97 11:21:21, you wrote:
>Well, on the other hand, I am VERY pleased with Van's baffle kit. It fit
>>my IO320-B1A almost perfectly, and saved me untold hours of work.
I used the O-360 kit and found it to be a very well done kit with excellent
workmanship and a post card for me to send in any comments. It was extremely
well made and fit marvelous. The instructions were D. S. However. Since
this was several years ago it is entirely possible that Van has changed
vendors; however be assured the fellow who did mine was excellent, and the
money I spent on that was well spent in my opinion.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Barry Ward ,
Please write or call George Orndorff at 817-439-3280. Thanks ..George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold(at)apollo.hp.com |
| Subject: | Re: unreadable message |
> uucp(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> > #! cunbatch
> > =1F=9D=90#B=80=90=E3=A6=CC=9D9 d=C0=C0!C=01=940t=D0=E8
> > 4A=E1Tg=94=D1B=12DL=C4=C34=D4@=03=0E0=C8=90=831=D0`=C3=97-=A8=D9^=9CU=E4=
>
> your attached message was unreadable.
UUCP stands for Unix to Unix Copy Protocol. It's the original way
that email and news was passed, usually via modem, between computers
using the Unix operating system. I still use it for my email
delivery, and Matt uses it to send and receive email for the RV-list.
I'll bet this message wasn't intended for the RV-list, since
uucp(at)matronics.com is a daemon (server process), not a real user.
Matt is indeed having some server problems. :-)
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Hi all,
Paul Bessing asked:
> >Does anyone know if there is a difference between "in-flight
> >adjustable" and constant speed props?
Jim Ayers answered:
> I have 50plus hours in a Cherokee Arrow with a CS prop, and 100plus hours
> flying my RV-3 with the Ivoprop "in-flight" adjustable prop. The biggest
> difference is in the lever you use to operate the prop. A lever for the
> CS prop, and a switch for the electric "in-flight" adjustable prop.
> You're working off of the tachometer for the rpm with either prop.
>
I thought I understood the in-flight adjustable prop but maybe I don't???
Wouldn't throttle still be used to control manifold pressure?
I have a Debonair with CS prop. I set the RPM I want with the Prop control and
the MANIFOLD PRESSURE with the throttle. With the CS prop, I can "phugoid" up
and down and the RPM will remain constant - hence the name. With the Ivoprop I
would have to keep RPM constant by constantly moving the switch - right?
What I want is a constant AIRSPEED prop. It would keep the A/S constant in
both cruise and climb. Wouldn't that be neat!!
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- WANTED TO BUY - a used Chevy V-6 setup.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rodwoodard(at)juno.com (Rodney W. Woodard) |
I'm mostly a lurker, but recently checked prices on the new S-Tec System
20 and System 30 autopilots and thought I would share. For the
unfamiliar, the -30 has altitude hold and and -20 does not. Either model
fits in place of your turn coordinator without a need for a separate box.
S-Tec makes a nice product and has a fine reputation, but the prices are
pretty steep. The -30 sells for $5,300 and the -20 is $3,400. These
prices were quoted by Dewey at Pacific Coast Avionics. The installation
kit is included, but the heading indicator with the pick-up heading bug
is not. John Stewart used PCA for for his avionics panel and recommends
them highly.
If anyone has had an opportunity to sample both the S-Tec and the Navaid,
I'd love to hear from you. The S-Tec is quite a bit more expensive than
the Navaid and I'm wondering if this is a case of "you get what you paid
for" or if it's just a matter of somebody charging more for the name.
Thanks in advance.
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
RV-8, #80033
About to start on wings and thinking about roll servoes.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShelbyRV6A(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pickling advice |
Re: using Kerosene.
I talked to Bill Colbert of Colemill(the guy that does the
Navajo,Bonanza,Baron conversions). He said do not use Kerosene. I did not ask
why, but presumed it might cause gasket/seal problems.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re;Everett Hatch Crash |
A>
>The news tonite here at said that Everett Hatch may have been doing low level
>aerobatics at the time of the crash, according to a witness. Estimated
>altitude, 800 feet.
The witness pilot from our local area airport was quoted by pilots I
was talking to this morning as saying, 'that he was flying up a river to
look at a log jam when Everett joined up on him to his left'. Everett's
plane, the pilot was quoted as saying, suddenly rolled to the left and went
inverted and then straight in. The impression that they got was that there
was strong possiblity of pilot incapcitation. From my limited knowledge of
Everett's flying, he didn't give me the impression that he would do anything
that could be considered of a unsafe nature such as low level aerobatics. I
had several conversations with Everett in this last year as he doing his
magic overhaul on my engine. During these phone calls and meetings we
wondered off of engines each time to talk about flying. He had told me he
was concerned with John Denver's crash and the attention the press will give
to experimental aviation. Which I agreed with him.
Our corner of Aviation will miss him. I know I will, I had great
respect for his considerable talents and an interesting man with a wealth of
knowledge, as I am sure everyone who delt with him will agree.
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
>
> >Chris, A plenum is an enclosure over the baffles, usually made of
> aluminum.
>
> I am a long way from cowling work, but like what your are saying. Please
> post any thing new. Thanks
> Don Jordan, RV-6A, #24330
Bob,
Ditto here. Van's does not provide a baffling kit/plans for my particular
Lycoming, so I have to make my own baffling or plenum anyway. I would much
prefer the plenum.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ways to heat a garage |
| From: | spml(at)juno.com (shirley a lavigne) |
> I am planning on building an rv-6,but first must find a way to heat
>my garage. It is huge, andonly a few stepps from my home office. I had
>thought of a propane
>salamander unit. It would give instant heat , which is all I need
>while I'm working out there, but a fellow who is building an RV-6A
>told me the propane gives off a residue
>in the air, which adheres to the aluminium.
> Any suggestions?
> PAT LAVIGNE ROCHESTER,NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
>"NEW FAR's???
>
>Rodney Boyd
>#! cunbatch
>*??#B??????9 d??!C*?0t??
>4A?Tg??B*DL?? 4?@*?0???*1?`? ?-??^?U??*??Q?j*fxb?0?qC
>?@C{3?*DU?*&?? ?`? j?**
>$?aC?3??CA$? **d?qG*8?t?*8?DRSTZ?!o?AB 8?a??O?*?
>s?*S?Q???*T@?*=B6o?A??g??D???'?*6?.......
Yes...and you are expected to comply by January 1, 1998!
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
=20
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Canopy - fitting side skins - help!! |
Hi Jim,
I am definitely interested in the back issues of your fine newsletter. You
sent me your mailing address once before, and I'm sorry to say I lost it.
If you will e-mail it to me again I promise not to be so careless again.
Thanks.
Joe Rex
RV-4
----------
> From: aol.com!JamesCone(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 Canopy - fitting side skins - help!!
> Date: Sunday, October 26, 1997 9:03 PM
>
>
> I hate to keep harping on this, but the Tri-State Wing newsletter had a
> series of articles that covered all of these problems and had lots of
> pictures to go with the instructions. You can install your canopy
yourself
> without any help if you use the method that I did. My canopy fits
perfectly
> and even though it has absolutely no seals anywhere it does not leak air
or
> water. If you get a good fit, you do not need to seal it. I have
> relinquished the editorship of the newsletter but have given the new
editor
> the masters of the back issues so that he can make more copies. They
will
> still be available for $5.00 per year as before. 1995,1996, and 1997
issues
> all had articles about the installation. E-mail me with your address and
I
> will get them to you. As soon as Kevin gets a modem that is fast enough
to
> download all of the messages on the RV-list in a reasonable time he will
be
> able send them without my help. There are lots of other reasons to get
the
> newsletter, but the canopy articles alone make it worth getting. I get
all
> sorts of testimonials directly, but most do not post them to the list so
I
> end up wanting to help. At $5.00 per year, there is less than a dollar
> profit after reprinting costs and postage, so I am not in this for the
money.
> I just want to help and I think that the newsletters will do that. I'll
get
> off of my soapbox now. Thanks for your patience.
>
> Jim Cone
> jamescone(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
>Yes you should bother with it. I didn't bother with it and my alternator
>failed at 25 hours, due to diode failure.
But from what stress?
> . . . . . . . . Although the repairman and others
>told me it wasn't necessarily a heat problem, I installed a blast tube after
>I got new diodes. Very simple scat tube from forward deck of baffle secured
>with safety wire to point at aft of alternator. I also re installed the
>cooling fan . . .
Oh . . . without the normally supplied fan from the manufacturer,
heat prostration WAS INDEED the likely result . . .
>and a "small" (regular size) pulley. No alternator problems in
>50 hours since and no apparent loss of airspeed or cooling to engine.
Without data, how does one know if adding removed fan, speeding up
alternator or adding external cooling air was "the" fix. John
Fluke and others make low cost thermocouple readout devices that
simplify investigative engineering. Also, having an alternator
loadmeter and a portable load bank to set and hold any given
alternator load is useful too.
>Personally I feel a blast tube is necessary on an RV-6, but the fan probably
>not. Will probably re install big pulley and remove fan at my 100 hour
>point, just to test out the idea. A lot of people are running that way with
>no problems.
Purely anecdotal information, not necessarily without value but EXTREMELY
difficult to use for a considered opinion.
>
>There remains the question of whether either is required on an alternator
>with an internal fan? I would say yes due to the hot position of the
>alternator.
Can you elaborate on "hot"?
>Now that you have started asking electrical questions, you will find
>they are endless. There is a lot of superstition involved.
>
Very sage counsel . . .
>Good luck. Sorry I couldn't give you a technical answer.
But you CAN!!! Since you do have the curiosity and you stated
above that you're planning to experiment at the 100 hr point,
how about spending a little extra effort and getting some
data . . . I can help (see other post earlier today).
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv(at)tppal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Thanks Michael, yes his name is Jim Ayers, and he gave me some helpful info.
I just cant seem to grasp the idea of keeping the same RPM no matter what
throttle setting you have. I understand how it works, I think. If you
increase manifold pressure (throttle) the prop increases pitch so that it
continuously maintains the same rpm. But why? What is the benefit? It
seems to me that you are just trading one thing for the other, and balancing
it out.
Please forgive my ignorance, but all of my 100 hours are in c-152's and c-172's!
Thanks..
Paul
>
>Paul, all I can tell you about the ivoprop in flight adjustable prop is
>that it is more or less a 2 speed prop. One pitch for take-off, another
>pitch for cruise. More like the old Beech electric props, I suppose. A
>regular hydraulic constant speed prop is completely adjustable
>throughout it's range and will pretty well hold any rpm you set it at,
>within limits. There is a man on the list who can tell you all about
>the ivo props, and he highly recommends them. I think the ground
>adjustable one is around 800.00 and the in flight adjustable version is
>closer to 2000.00. I think his name is Jim Ayers. (forgive me if the
>name is wrong) Michael. If you get one let me know how it works out
>for you. I, too was interested in these props. I was just scared away
>a little by all the rumors I have heard lately.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Fixed or tail dragger |
>
>If a pilot were successful with taxi and takeoff via one wheel on the
>nose and one on the tail, I would think they were cool too.
>>
Kevin, those are glider pilots! their power for taxi and take-off comes
from a long tow rope.
Try the " Rocket ", I'm sure your tires, what ever you got, will not wear
out easily unless you taxi 4 or 5 miles to the threshold for a 200ft take
off run!
Ed hobenshield, RV-6 C-FXXG, and loving every flight that Van has made
possible for me. ( also partner Ray Haussler )
Also Kavin, good reply!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv(at)tppal.com> |
Has anyone thought of putting a small jump seat in the rear of a 6A for a
small child? I have seen it done in a Glasair II. I would love to take my
daughter up until reaches 60 lbs!
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Glover <tglovebox(at)bc.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: compressor question |
wport.com!Alivic(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
> I had to good fortune of purchasing a used 5 hp, 60 gal.
> compressor in very good condition. Harbor freight advertisies a FRL
> unit for $42.99 that filters, regulates & lubricates?
>
> Tony Livic alivic(at)wport.com
Tony, I don't recommend a lubricator at the compressor. It contaminates
all the downstream lines, etc. with oil, and that's not good if you're
planning to paint with the same system. I add a few drops of lubricant
directly to the airtool before I connect it to the air chuck. That's
usually good enough for the day.
If it doesn't have wheels, and it's that difficult to move, are you SURE
that it needs to be tied down?
Good luck!
Tom Glover, Surrey BC, RV-6 emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mazda Rotary? |
I bought Tracy's book from Tracy at Copperstate. If you're considering
non-Lycoming, you must have this book.
On the downside I was a bit put off by the repetition: He reprints the
articles he wrote for the Kitplanes (good), but lifts from those articles so
freely that you think someone shifted your bookmark when you weren't looking.
On the up side, his writing is clear and concise. It does not give you the
dimensions needed to say, build the mount. However, he describes his thought
process and procedures sufficiently for you to do your own. If you're not
comfortable with this approach, that is, you want a hand-holder,
over-your-shoulder Betty Crocker recipe, then this is not the approach for
you.
In short it will either get you started on a Mazda or discourage you back to
Lycoming. Either way it's worth the time and cost.
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE:New on the List |
>
>Hi everyone, another new RV fanatic checking in.
>After plowing through hundreds of pages of archives I
>decided to get with the program and sign on. I have
>two 3 inch binders bulging with info on RV's and
>building-my wife says I'm going over the edge.
Well Dan, Welcome to the asylum! Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Paul wrote:
>
>Since I have never flown a CS, I do not see the benefit of changing power
>setting and keeping the same rpm. If you increased the power setting,
>wouldn't you want a faster prop RPM?
Confusin', ain't it!
With a CS prop, you can increase the throttle setting and the rpm will remain
the same BUT the prop will go to a steeper pitch and pull you ahead further
with each revolution. You do indeed have the same number of revolutions in a
minute but each revolution moves you ahead further. If you start a climb
without touching the throttle, the prop will pitch flatter so that it (and the
engine!) can go on operating at the RPM that you set.
Suppose you are trying to climb over a 13,000 foot ridge. You want to have the
engine producing all the power it can at this altitude. So, you set the RPM
(the prop control) to the setting where maximum horsepower is created. If the
horsepower rating of your engine is 160 hp at 2500 RPM then it will produce
less at 2450 and at 2550. With a fixed pitch prop, you give it full throttle
and take what you get which is probably not 2500 RPM. The engine is probably
lugging at lower RPM and not being given the opportunity to burn gasoline and
heat air like it could if the load weren't so great. In a car, the problem is
solved by shifting down so as to reduce the load. In the airplane, we need to
flatten the prop pitch. CS does it automatically to keep the 2500 RPM.
I'd better go fly! I feel like I am describing something I really give little
thought to. I climb out in my Debonair with the little IO-470-K 6 cyl 225 hp
Continental at 2500 RPM and 25 inches. I "high cruise" for speed at 2450 and
full throttle, nearly always above 7500 feet. Low cruise is 2300 RPM. For
descent to landing, the next throttle jockeying, I pull the throttle back to
about 17 inches. Over the fence I shove the prop control in ready to go
around. I was told to think of landings as "approach to a go-around".
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- WANTED TO BUY - a used Chevy V-6 setup.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mauser(at)claris.com (Richard Chandler) |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master... |
> I picked up on the article yesterday morning and wrote the
> author immediately. We shall see what we shall see . . .
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
I'd love to see what you wrote to him. :-)
--
Richard Chandler
RV-6: Garage bought and being finished, saving for tools and tail kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion/Aerobatics |
>
>Does anyone have any reason to believe an auto conversion we be any more or
>any less reliable in an RV while doing aggressive aerobatics?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Mike Kiess (RV-6AQB on the way!)
Gyroscopic forces on a PSRU...........Not me thanks........Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avionics Master... |
>I'd love to see what you wrote to him. :-)
>
>
Here 'tis . . . .
================================================================
"Another reason an avionics master was not needed in
early years is because vacuum tube radios weren't
subject to damage from spikes from the charging system
when the aircraft was started with the radios turned
on. But all that changed when tubes were replaced with
silicon. Try starting the engine with your modern
solid-state radios turned on and there's a good chance
you will damage your avionics. The damage may not show
up immediately, but nevertheless, damage has been done."
Kindly explain to me exactly what damage results from some
piece of avionics being attached to the bus during engine
cranking, what is the source and engery content of the antagonistic
system (starter I presume?). Why is it that if all modern
radios are tested to DO-160 that they should be in danger
from perfectly ordinary operational events in the airplane
(i.e. no failures of other equipment like over voltage)?
Where is it stated in the installation manuals from avionics
manufacturers that this is a hazard to be guarded against?
Why should it be (if I've been able to design and build
avionics products for Tri-Pacers to Learjets for over 20
years and worry not a whit for "spikes") that products from
the big guys should still carry the stigma of having gone
solid state? The real reasons for early failures in solid
state radios (they were fragile germanium to begin with)
came from a variety of stresses not the least of which was
LOW voltage, not "spikes". Over the past 30 years, solid state
devices have matured through a dozen generations and design
guides (Like DO-160) have defined what's needed to make
any piece of avionics last in an airplane (or any other
vehicle).
The myth of "avionics master switches" needs to die a quiet
death brought about by evolution of technologies. If your
fuel injection computer in your Lexus blew its brains out
every tenth time you started your car, you'd be all over the
manufacturer . . . why should we tolerate such shoddy design
in our $300,000 airplanes? Assuming of course the problem
truly exists.
===========================================================
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pick up tube |
I didn't clamp mine down. If you ever have to take the sender out for
whatever reason it would be hard to do if the tube was clamped down.
You would have to open it up from another direction to release the tube
clamp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass gear leg fairings |
Hi Mark,
Does this include the gear leg intersection fairings, too? Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Flaps mounting |
Jim - (this is the third and final try on sending this message!!)
> How do you locate the three bearing blocks that hold the wd-613 electric
> flap actuator arm? I have the EF kit from Van's and did get a plan
> sheet EF6-1but I do not understand exactly what is meant by the "Long
> Side" of the F-680 bearing block.
The hole through the center bearing block is not centered fore and aft, the
long side is the side with more material. Assemble the parts and lay them
in the fuse, and everything should become clearer.
>
> In Frank's notes (I think Gil Alexander wrote the EF section) It says
> locate the wd-631 (613) by clamping the F-680 center block to the flange
> of the F-605B (605A) 2" left of centerline.
It will be about 2" left of center. The exact location will also be set by
the housing, as well as the outboard bearings, which are forward against
the bulkhead. The bearing will be mounted using nutplates for AN3 bolts.
> Should the 680 block set on top of the flange? Does that provide
clearance for skin or whatever else
> might fit on top of the flange? How/where do the two outside blocks
> EF-661 locate on the back of the F-605D parts.
Their vertical position is determined when you have positioned the middle
block - don't forget the vertical thickness of the various floor sheets,
which will be underneath the middle block.
>Are the EF-661 blocks
> supposed to be jammed onto the wd-613 as far as they will go or is there
> supposed to be some clearance? Is there a critical area at the outboard
> ends of these blocks that should be used for there final location?
I chamfered the ends of the weldment to minimize chafing, but there is no
real force trying to move the weldment side to side.
>
> Well, you get the idea, I'm lost again. The EF6-1 drawing is nice but I
> must be missing something, it just seems like there is not enough
> information to locate the ef-661 parts on the F-605d side pieces and the
> 680 center block to the 605 bottom part.
Keep studying the drawings, the information is actually there. The
sequencing of when to drill the holes for the nutplates in the middle
pushrod tunnel area is important, as some of the holes need to also be
through the flap actuator housing parts.
Hope this helps.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A instr. panel mount
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
matronics.com!aol.com!Rvator97 wrote:
>
>
> Is it necessary to install some kind of alt. cooling?.
> I understand that if used it should be routed to the back of the alt. Anybody
> not do this? Any problems? Should I bother with it???
Don't know how necessary it is as I'm not flying yet. I have an auto alternator
and they don't have cooling tubes, but to be on the safe side I fabricated a
cooling tube from 5/8 alum. and directed it to the rear of the alt. on the diodes,
as they are the critical things to heat as I understand. I split top end 4 ways
and drilled hole to rivet to floor of baffling in front of #1 cyl. A little
tricky fitting, but figured some air is better than none, and hopefully will
extend life of alt.
Good luck,
Warren Bishop RV-6 working around engine North Platte, NE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DJA <ahearns(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ways to heat a garage |
Look at an HVAC outlet. You can get a small hanging gas furnace, it'll keep things
warm, all winter.
Space heaters, salamanders, scarey stuff. You'd be suprised a small unit isn't
that much $.
Having grown up in Erie, I can tell you a heated garage is a nice thing :)
Dan
shirley a lavigne wrote:
>
> I am planning on building an rv-6,but first must find a way to heat my
> garage. It is huge, andonly a few stepps from my home office. I had
> thought of a propane
> salamander unit. It would give instant heat , which is all I need while
> I'm working out there, but a fellow who is building an RV-6A told me the
> propane gives off a residue
> in the air, which adheres to the aluminium.
> Any suggestions?
> PAT LAVIGNE ROCHESTER,NY
>
--
http://www.ntr.net/~ahearns/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this stops 1 spam......
WARNING: Unsolicited commercial e-mail: $500 per message:
US Code, Title 47 Section 227
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/47/227.html
________________________________________________________________________________
A condition, space, or enclosure in which air or other gas is at a pressure
greater than that of the outside atmosphere.
According to Webster, that is what a plenum is.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tip lighting wire run |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I'm not an expert on this sort of thing but I would use caution using a
conductor that runs through the inside of a shielded cable to power
something else. It can act as a long antena and feed noise back into
your main power bus. I would use a seperate wire outside the shield just
to be safe.
Scott Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
<l03010d00b07a5554bb9d@[168.75.107.22]>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Part of the problem is there is about as many diffrent models of Lyc.
engines out there as there is home builders. Along with that, lots of
different case castings done over the years. Narrow deck vs. wide deck
engines, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
<19971028.090926.7014.0.ebundy(at)juno.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Hi Dave. I have always been chicken of using just wax to protect the
plexi so I always use what the composite guys use for a release layer and
that is clear plastic packing tape. resin wont stick very well and it is
so thin that painting the inside of the fairing will make up the
difference. Waxing the tape also doesn't hurt. One final note, no mater
what you do it still opens hard (Boy do I remember the first one I did)
so I always tie a heavy cord onto the slider block at the back and fish
it outside. Then when its time to open you have something to pull to get
that block started up hill on the track which helps break the front
loose. Taping lightly with a rubber hammer
around the fairing also helps. Have fun.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pickling advice |
<< He said do not use Kerosene. I did not ask
why, but presumed it might cause gasket/seal problems. >>
It might also be because water can bind with kerosene creating an emulsion
that would probably not be good for its health. Just a guess.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Making your own baffles ? |
<< what do I use for lacing cord? >>
Hey, I have an idea. How about being really crazy and just use lacing cord?
Try P/N 17X from ACS.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flap Installation |
<< I intended to makes some "booties" to
cover these holes, but once again, put it off until too late. Cold weather
is here:( >>
Can you fill the holes with some RTV??
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
>
>>I'm about to layup the fiberglass and epoxy aroung the windshield. I need
>>a mold release to put on the sliding canopy. I've heard that car wax
>>works. Does anyone have a suggestions?
>>
>>Best Regards,
>>Dave Barnhart
>
>Dave,
> Boy, you hit a sore spot, there. I spent three hours yesterday trying to
>repair (sand, sand, sand) my empenage mold because evidently, PVA mold
>release and Aeropoxy don't work together. PVA has worked well in the past
>with Safe-T-Poxy and with vinylester resin.
> When I laid up my empenage fairing on the airplane, I covered the aluminum
>with adhesive backed, shelf paper and then applied a coat of Johnson Paste
>Wax. This worked very well. I assume that you're laying up the fiberglass
>on the canopy and then need to pop the fairing off. (I built a tip up so am
>not familiar with the slider). Something I learned from the Sheridan, WY
>airplane group (mostly compost guys) is that you can lay up directly on 100
>mph tape and don't need to wax. But, for your purposes, I would imagine
Bob and Dave,
... you can also do this with vinyl tape and epoxies. I use the 3M
#471 industrial tape in 2 inch width (from a good hardware store) for large
areas, and plastic electrical insulation tape for smaller areas. Overlap
the tape slightly and press down on the edges. No wax is needed. These
vinyl tapes are only 0.007 inches thick, so the thickness lost is
negligible - I would worry about the thickness of the 100 mph (super duct)
tape. I have used the above with both polyester and epoxy (WEST system)
resins. Use the good quality electrical tape though since it won't leave a
residue behind like the cheap ones.
>that the duct tape might leave too course of texture on the fiberglass.
>Also, I wouldn't experiment on my canopoy with this method or, if you did
I used these tapes on both my canopy fairings with absolutely no
problems (again, with WEST epoxy).
>use duct tape, I'd wax it.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 380 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
If you must use wax (as in the first step of my alternative tail
fairing production method posted last week) then buy real "mold release
wax" from your local industrial epoxy resin supplier ... Johnsons Paste Wax
is NOT a good substitute! The real stuff is fairly expensive, is
silicone-free and about $15 for a large, flat can ... several layers must
be applied.
... hope this helps ...
Gil (fiberglass ain't too bad) Alexander
Just going out to work on glassing a rudder cap (for another RV6A)
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Guys..............................
A constant speed prop, is exactly that...a constant speed prop. It's speed is
determined by the prop goverenor, which is adjusted by the prop lever in the
cockpit. It does not care what the engine is doing. As long as it senses it's
input from the engine (which is usually oil pressure) it is going to try to
maintain the RPM that you have selected for it (the prop) to run.
Engine speed is goverened by the prop, only because the prop (on most recip
engined airplanes) is attached to the crankshaft of the engine, either
directly or indirectly. (With indirectly being through prop reduction
gearing.)
One of the reasons why they call a prop governor a prop governor, is because
it is designed to govern the prop-----not the engine,--but the prop. Engine
RPM canges, during climb, dive, or level flight, are caused by the changing
dynamic forces on the propeller itself. The prop RPM, remains essentially
unchanged.
Air adjustable props, are just that. The pilot, at his own discretion, can
change the pitch of the prop, (from takeoff to climb to cruise) but the RPM
of same is also changed, and it may require the addition of, or reduction of
fuel, through adjustments to the throttle, to change engine RPM as well.
The reason automatic transmissions in cars, tend to be more expensive than
manual transmissions, is because they are more complicated. The reason
constant speed propellers, are more expensive than air adjustable props, is
because they are more complicated.
Just remember--Constant speed prop, means constant speed prop, not constant
speed engine. Air adjustable prop, means air adjustable prop, not constant
speed engine.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
(Where's that 16 year old airport bum, when you need him?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com> |
| Subject: | Everett Hatch of Hatch Rotary |
On Sunday, 26th October, Everett Hatch, flying an RV-4 which was the test
vehicle for the development of the Hatch rotary, an alternative engine for
aircraft, crashed, taking the life of Everett. This gentleman was a
personal friend of Vans. He was the main thrust for the development of the
engine.
The cause of the crash is under investigation, but it appears that the
engine and the airframe were not the cause of the crash, as there were
witnesses.
A Memorial Service for Everett will be held at Hatch field, 2pm on Sunday,
November 2nd. Everyone is welcome, to either fly in (those familiar with
the strip) or drive in at his Aumsville, OR residence.
Bill Benedict
Van's Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
<< Is it necessary to install some kind of alt. cooling?.
I understand that if used it should be routed to the back of the alt.
Anybody
not do this? Any problems? Should I bother with it??? >>
It will extend the life of your diodes if you keep them from getting too
toasty. When you draw more current from the alternator by having lots of
toys ON the diodes work harder (since they drop about a volt each when
forward biased). That means that every amp they pass produces almost a watt
since this is rectified AC.
This heat goes into the alternator structure and requires some forced air to
assist natural convection in getting the heat out.
Adding a cooling tube is standard practice and easy to do from the front
baffle. 1" dia SCAT will do. Don't "cheap out".
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear Jump Seat |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I had a seat installed in the baggage area of my RV-6A that I used for my
son until he was about 2 years old. At that time his sister was born
which meant he got to take mom's seat up front since there wasn't room
for everyone.
I did it using a childrens car seat and had it very securely anchored.
Let me know if you or anyone else is interested in that type of
installation and I will elaborate further.
Scott Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Fuel pick up tube |
----------
> From: joseph.wiza <joe(at)mcione.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Fuel pick up tube
> Date: Tuesday, October 28, 1997 4:44 PM
>
> First time builder so I'm not much of a contributor. Working with that
> awful proseal on the fuel tanks. My quetion to some of u flying rv types
> is did u clamp down the fuel pickup tube inside the tank??????
>
> Joe/wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ways to heat a garage and winter |
I hung a gas fired Modine unit from the overhead in my 20x20 foot attached
garage. It required running a gas pipe from the house and also venting the
exhaust out the back wall, but it was worth it. I restored a Piper Colt out
there, working all winter long for two years and now I am looking at the
first winter of RV4 building. With the overhead insulated, it heats the
garage in just a couple minutes.
With winter coming on and my wing kit due to arrive in December, I am
concerned about how I will etch and Alodine my spars when it is below
freezing out. Ribs could probably be done in a bucket with repeated trips
outside for dumping, but I have no ideas about etching long pieces in the
winter.
How have others dealt with etching big pieces in the winter ?
Mark McGee
RV4 Elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prime VA-146 flange bearing? |
After reading the posts on this subject, I could not deal with my flange
bearing being unprimed, so I drilled it out and primed it last night. I'm
not sure how I justified not priming it when every other part is primed. It
was no big deal to mask the bearing and trim it with an Xacto knife.
Thanks for bringing this up.
Mark McGee
RV4 Elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Paul,
A CS prop uses a governor to control the pitch of the prop and the rpm's.
Where a in flight adjustable you must adjust. Before you buy a Ivoprop you
may want to ask around there have been alot of failures with those
props.....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Tip lighting wire run |
Brian wrote:
>
>I just received the -8 wing kit..boy, lotsa ribs to flute! As part of
>the rib preparations for assembly, I need to drill the holes for the
>wiring run out to the Whelan 3 in 1 tip lights that I plan to install.
I
>hope to get the ones with the power supply for EACH lighting unit..to
>avoid running high voltage pulses behind the fuel tanks. Yeah, I
>know...no need to worry..but can't be too safe.
>
>Does Whelan include the wiring and what size hole should be drilled in
>each rib? I'd find out soon enough if I could afford the lights
>now..but the Stock market crash pretty much put a hold on THAT
>idea....:(
>
Hi Brian. This is the lighting system I am using. The wire size is
not critical, since you need to run the wires through a conduit. I
suggest you buy the wiring kit from Van's which includes the conduit,
since you will need to have it eventually anyway.
The real issue here is mounting the power supplies. I mounted the
power supply on the wing spar near the tip with nutplates and AN3
bolts. I needed the power supplies to use as a drill guide for hole
spacing.
It helps to make a rib drilling guide for the conduit holes out of some
of the wood that the wing kit came in. The tooling holes in the ribs
can be used for positioning the ribs accurately on a piece of board
that has a #40 hole drilled at the conduit center.
The stock market is back up :-).
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald DiPaula <dipaula(at)access.digex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Jump Seat |
>
> Has anyone thought of putting a small jump seat in the rear of a 6A for a
> small child? I have seen it done in a Glasair II. I would love to take my
> daughter up until reaches 60 lbs!
>
> Paul
in the november issue of _kitplanes_ in their report on oshkosh '97, they
have a picture of an RV-6 that... well, let me enter their photo caption:
"bart dalton and john nys modified their RV a lot - to a 2 plus 2 stretched
configuration with a 260-hp IO-540. they call it RV-6+."
the photograph shows it with (sliding) canopy back, two men sitting in front,
two boys sitting in back. it can be done.
-D-
Cynthia Alice DiPaula was born 9 June 1997, 3:36 p.m., 7 lb. 10 oz., 20.5"
"Even a single elephant can be destructive."
My 1989 Honda CB-1 (CB400F) is for sale, email me if interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GARY HARVELL <harvell(at)monroeville.gulf.net> |
I am looking for a stall warning switch for my rv6a. I looked through
the archives and found a lot of ideas, all were untested. Is there any
one out there that as installed one and tried it. I have the skin on one
sided of both wings.
Gary RV6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Denman <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alligator Squeezers |
bge.com!CHRIS.BROWNE(at)matronics.com wrote:
>
>
> The supply of used small C-types squeezers has dried up, but I can
> find the larger C-types along and the smaller alligator types. The
> larger C-types (up to 3/16" rivets) sound unwieldy. Anyone used an
> alligator squeezer and liked it? Seems to me that alignment for flush
> riveting with an alligator squeezer would be difficult.
>
> Chris Browne
> Buying Tools for -6A emp kit
>
I'm a "tool nut" so I have an alligator squeezer and several "C" frame
squeezers. The alligator squeezer is very, very, very hard to use
compared to the "C" frame squeezer. I consider a pneumatic "C" frame
squeezer a "must have" tool. It is very easy to use and gives very
consistent results. The alligator squeezer is very technique
dependent. The problem is a result of one of the alligator jaws
traveling through an arc. This will tend to bend the rivet shaft before
the rivet is "set". There are very few spots on an RV where an
alligator squeezer is useful, much less needed. I am essentially
finished with the airframe of an RV6 and I "needed" the alligator
squeezer perhaps 6 times. IMHO save your money and get a "C" frame
squeezer. You have probably noticed that the people who have a "C"
frame squeezer have no interest in getting rid of them...even after the
plane is flying!
Mike Denman
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: S-Tec Autopilot |
I hear those navaids are dangerous. Had a friend tell me that he left OK,
got it all set up at alt and plugged in the direction hold on the Navaid,
woke up south of Dallas after flying right over DFW at 10k. Lulled into the
darkness of serenity and lack of something to do!
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ways to heat a garage |
> I am planning on building an rv-6,but first must find a way to heat my
>garage. It is huge, andonly a few stepps from my home office. I had
>thought of a propane
>salamander unit. It would give instant heat , which is all I need while
>I'm working out there, but a fellow who is building an RV-6A told me the
>propane gives off a residue
>in the air, which adheres to the aluminium.
> Any suggestions?
> PAT LAVIGNE ROCHESTER,NY
Pat, he may be correct, however, I have many friends that have used the
propane infrared heaters (the round mesh looking things that are connected
directly on top of a tank) and they have had no complaints. Course, the a/c
may dissolve one of these days. I used one of the torpedo type kerosene
heaters. Biggest complaint-much noise with the blower running all of the
time-worse than the air compressor.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion/Aerobatics |
>Gyroscopic forces on a PSRU...........Not me thanks........Al
Finally, I now know what it was that made the P-51 so dangerous. It wasn't
that your right leg became almost twice as muscular as your left, it wasn't
that the fire truck was there to shoot water down the air scoop to keep it
from overheating on the ground, it wasn't the speed and maneuverability, it
wasn't that 1750 hp Rolls or Packard engine nor that fat 4 bladed prop -- it
was that darned ole PSRU that they put on it. And you know what? I still
enjoyed every minute of it, never gave the PSRU a thought! How irrational
of me. :-)
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Electric flap replacement motor |
Some time ago, Van's put out a recall notice on the electric flap motor because
of the need to
cross drill a hole. I sent in my request for change months ago and was acknowledged.
I've heard nothing since. I understand there was a significant backlog but I'm
curious to hear if
people have been receiving their replacement.
Ken
RV6A FLying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master Switch |
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 09:31:33
>To: "trogers(at)utech.net" <40304(at)utech.net>
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>Subject: Re: Master Switch
>In-Reply-To: <3456D551.2982(at)utech.net>
>
>>Bob,
>>
>>First off I visited your web site, it's great. I'll kindly explain why
>>I, others and many manufactures feel an avionics master switch is useful.
>
> . . . there's a difference between "useful" and "necessary" . . .
>
>> First off, it's nice to be able to turn on everything with just one
>>switch but that does have it's draw backs as you know.
>
> . . . not the least of which is single point of failure for every
> electronic item. Further, contemporary bus architectures don't
> accomodate essential goodies with a second, totally isolated
> power path . . a few folk have installed a second switch across
> the first path, "just in case."
>
>> . . . . I'm not sure just
>>how much avionics you've installed but my guess is very little.
>
> True. I've not been personally involved in installation of
> off-the-shelf products in many airplanes . . . perhaps a large
> gap in my education or I would have discovered earlier how
> bad some of these products are, to wit:
>
>> . . . . . . If
>>you've ever installed a GEM, IIMorrow 360, Shadin air data computer or
>>BFG 900 in a 4 cyl Lycoming powered aircraft and started it with the
>>avionics on you will scramble the software and at least one of the above
>>items. Often you can reset the instrument by just shutting the avionics
>>master switch off and then back on.
>
> Why do you purchase and install this kind of stuff in your airplane?
> As I mentioned earlier, I've been designing electronics systems for
> aircraft for a long time (25+ years). The gizmos ranged from simple
> low voltage warning systems to a servoed trim speed controller
> that's currenty flying on the majority of the Lear fleet. I'm a
> consultant to several manufacturers of modern, microprocessor
> based components for aircraft and other vehicular applications
> (you can't escape them any more, microprocessors are everywhere).
> This type of behavior is unacceptable to my customers and unacceptable
> to me as a designer. If you don't box these things up and send
> them back, you've told your supplier that his design is "acceptable".
> If the computer on which I write this barfed like that more than
> a few times, it would be back in the box . . . or at least worked
> on to fix the problem. My microprocessors don't go dumb with every
> hicup on the bus, why should I accept it that anyone else's does?
>
>> . . . . . If the battery is weak, then the
>>problem is worse. I haven't seen avionics software scramble with the
>>master switch left on as much with the big bore continentals. This is
>>probably because they are 6 cyls and low compression. Put and "O" scope
>>on the avionics buss and start a Lycoming, you will see spikes not just
>>low voltage.
>
> How "big" and for how long?
>
>>I don't think radios were designed to work during most piston aircraft
>>starting, this is not ordinarly. I sent Mike Busch a couple of notes
>>from King and Collins stating that an avionics master was desired. . .
>
> I'd like copies of those letters . . or the name of the person
> at the bottom.
>
>>DO-160 is not revelent to all avionics such as GEMS and sorts.
>
> DO-160 is relevant to any piece of electrical equipment the manufacturer
> chooses to apply it to. It's not a specification but a test method.
> If you have any gizmo capable of being an antagonist or victim to
> other equipment, DO-160 outlines test methods for various conditions
> found aboard an airplane. It's applicable to ANYTHING you want
> investigate for suitability of use on aircraft.
>
>> . . . . . I don't
>>know of any current aircraft that doesn't have an avionics master from
>>the factory, even the new Cessna models. I just got out of a Citation 5
>>and the check list had "Avionics Master Off" BEFORE the start button was
>>pushed.
>
> I don't doubt it. I was working at Cessna when we put the first ones
> in the airplane and based on what we knew then, the fragility of the
> radios, the lack of design standards, and the general attituded that
> "more gizmos is better" I thought it was a good idea then too. The
> thing that mystifies me is why, in 30 years since, we've not
> learned as designers to do any better and why as consumers, we
> put up with what ever the manufacturer wants to sell us.
>
> After designing to meet performance specifications, the #2 design
> item on my list is stand up to EVERYTHING the airplane can throw
> at me. I can also tell you that the task is trivial compared to
> other design requirements. I just finished qualifying a new
> autopilot for a military program. This piece of hardware would
> survive quite nicely in any single engine airplane too . . . the
> autopilot costs about $9,000 to build. The cost of components to
> insure survival from bus induced hazards is under $10.
>
>>Is an avionics master needed??? In my opinion it is, nor will I do an
>>installation without one but you definately can have your own opinion.
>>That's called America:)
>
> But here's the ace-kicker. The avionics master switch is a
> check-list item. I cannot count how many times I've stepped into
> a rental airplane and found the avionics master switch still on. If
> a missed or ignored check-list item truly puts some very expensive
> part of the airplane at risk then I'll suggest there's a SERIOUS
> design problem here, would you disagree? Don't pilots have enough
> responsabilites as pilots without burdening them with guardianship
> of fragile or balky electronics? In virtually EVERY segment of
> consumer electronics from Matel Toys to the fire-breathing, byte
> thrashers on my desk, the value and capability of electronics-for-
> the-people gets better almost daily. Yet we as pilots and owners
> of airplanes take it in the shorts because there's some aura about
> "aircraft quality" or "certified" hardware that has put our best
> senses as consumers to sleep.
>
> You say you have documentation from manufacturers wherein they
> recommend an avionics master switches. You also allude to special
> action on the part of the pilot to coax pieces of equipment into
> normal operation. Wouldn't it be better to encourage, nay INSIST
> that manufacturer to live up to a trivial responsability? A 1960's
> attidude of avionics consumerism puts little pressure on them to
> do better. I work with hundreds of individuals who are assembling their
own
> airplanes. We design and fabricate systems that are failure tolerant
> and free of trash that exceeds the capability of DO-160 qualified
> stuff to SURVIVE. Since we're building the best single engine airplanes
> that ever were, I counsel my friends to not tolerate any lapse in
> supplier responsabilities to provide equipment suited to the task.
> This includes both matters of survivability and operability.
>
> Your constituency is pretty much stuck with "what you see is
> what you get" from the aircraft manufacturing community. Customer
> relations of these firms may claim to have customer's best
> interests in mind but I'll suggest they demonstrate otherwise.
> When the kind of products you describe are allowed to continue
> to flow into new applications, it's a glaring example of breakdown
> in supplier consumer relations and manufacturers responsabilities
> to REDUCE pilot workload not increase it.
>
> I really like to get some names of contacts you can supply for
> any firm that suggests that an avionics master switch is useful.
>
>
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com |
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
Engine RPM canges, during climb, dive, or level flight, are caused
by the changing dynamic forces on the propeller itself. The prop RPM,
remains essentially unchanged.
The point here is well taken, but the prop and engine are either on the
same shaft or geared/belted together, so this cannot be true in the literal
sense. It is the RPM setpoint for the prop which remains unchanged. On a
CS prop, the engine/prop RPM changes when the pilot adjusts the governor,
or when the pitch range of the prop limits the ability of the system to
compensate for high or low dynamic forces such as engine power, as occurs
during low power taxi, or increasing aircraft speed, which may happen in a
very high speed dive, just before or after the wings come off. :^{
Just remember--Constant speed prop, means constant speed prop, not constant
speed engine. Air adjustable prop, means air adjustable prop, not constant
speed engine.
For the reason given above the former statement is not true, unless you
have a fluid clutch ("automatic transmission").
Chris Browne
Buying Tools for RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv(at)tppal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Jump Seat |
I am definately interested. It is good to hear that is worked for you. I
will consult you when I get to that stage in building...
thanks...
Paul
>
>I had a seat installed in the baggage area of my RV-6A that I used for my
>son until he was about 2 years old. At that time his sister was born
>which meant he got to take mom's seat up front since there wasn't room
>for everyone.
>I did it using a childrens car seat and had it very securely anchored.
>Let me know if you or anyone else is interested in that type of
>installation and I will elaborate further.
>
> Scott Mc
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion/Aerobatics |
Al,
Would you care to expound on that a little? What failure modes do you
anticipate as a result of "gyroscopic forces on the PSRU"? And on what type
of PSRU; spur gear, planetary gear, belt, HyVo chain, etc...?
I would agree that aggressive acro and auto conversions are probably not a
good mix at this time, simply because by flying an auto conversion you are
already pushing the envelope. Why try to push it further?
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>>
>>Does anyone have any reason to believe an auto conversion we be any more or
>>any less reliable in an RV while doing aggressive aerobatics?
>>
>>Mike Kiess (RV-6AQB on the way!)
>
>Gyroscopic forces on a PSRU...........Not me thanks........Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: alternator cooling |
In a message dated 10/29/97 6:52:15, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" wrote:
>
> Oh . . . Without the normally supplied fan from the manufacturer,
> heat prostration WAS INDEED the likely result . . .
Thank you Bob, for this opinion. Based on that I will forgo the test with
out the fan. There remains the question of whether the large pulley is good
or bad. My impression is that you feel it is better to have a small pulley.
I have a late model Lycoming with the large flywheel pulley.
Let me add one last (I hope) postscript to the alternator cooling debate.
If I had had the benefit of my present level of experience, which includes
Nuckolls' recent post on the subject, I would have bought the same Japanese
alternator, left the fan and pulley on, relocated the voltage regulator where
I can get to it, and used a blast tube. I suggest the rest of you follow the
same procedure, and forget about further research. It is seldom you find a
prudent approach which is cheaper, and costs you only thirty minutes to an
hour, building time.
Of course it would be beneficial if others would share their exp[erience and
we could know of other incidences of alternator failure. I know there are a
lot of them out there, and my anecdotal gut tells me it is due to the very
hot location of the alternator.
I have left much of my analysis out of these posts for obvious reasons;
however I will add one more observation/comment. Upon looking at the failed
part, I was interested to note that the plate or heat sink to which the
diodes were mounted was a cupped affair which would obviously require airflow
from back to front to work!! This observation alone was a compelling reason
to establish airflow in that direction. I did that by installing a blast
tube at the rear and the suck fan on the front. It is my anecdotal gut
feeling that without an air mover involved the tendency in this area would be
from front to back. This would present preheated air to the diodes which
would have a cupped surface behind them to help trap and stagnate the hot
air.
This has been a very useful thread for me and I hope for the others.
Everyone has to deal with these alternator questions and Van gives little
guidance.
Denis L. Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mold Release |
Morning builders.
I have been using 4-inch wide black electrical tape for mold releases on
most of the fiberglass parts necessary on the RV. It can be found at
electrical supply houses and is very useful for masking the Plexiglas since
it is impervious to paint and epoxies, leaves no residue and can be easily
trimmed with a razor blade after installed. Another tip is to let the
part cure completely then use compressed air to blow it free of the mold.
To reduce the finishing required on the fiberglass part liberally sprinkle
the last ply with microballoons and gently rub them into the wet epoxy.
This serves to fill most of the weave and wicks up any excess epoxy from
the layup. These methods were used during the construction of the
fiberglass sliding canopy skirts that we are very satisfied with.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 fuselage Jig |
Looking for a well built RV6 fuselage jig in the tampa, sarasota, venice,
fortmeyers FL area to rent or buy.
Please respond to joe(at)mcione.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | How do you vote? |
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
| |
| Go ahead, make my day . . . . |
| Show me where I'm wrong. |
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ways to heat a garage and winter |
I alumipreped and alodyned my spar parts last january in michigan. Just =
wait for a good day and do it outside.
Brian Eckstein
----------
>
>
> With winter coming on and my wing kit due to arrive in December, I am
> concerned about how I will etch and Alodine my spars when it is below
> freezing out. Ribs could probably be done in a bucket with repeated =
trips
> outside for dumping, but I have no ideas about etching long pieces in =
the
> winter.
>
> How have others dealt with etching big pieces in the winter ?
>
> Mark McGee
> RV4 Elevators
>
>
>
|
|
|
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)brahms2.tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: S-Tec Autopilot |
The navaid autopilot uses position and rate of change feedback to determine
the correction necessary for a given situation. The S Tec uses position
only. Using both allows for much smoother and better proportioned
corrections according to Navaid. The guys at Navaid indicated that if they
were to certify their unit it would also cost 3-4 thousand rather than
$1,300. The guys at S Tec said their prices would double if they used rate
feedback also. All of the Navaid users I talked with are very
enthusiastic about the performance. I intend to have a Navaid mounted to
the right of the avioncs rather than replacing the turn coordinator.
I would like some how to info from the gentleman who has a interrupt switch
between the Navaid servo and the relay.
Thanks
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
Can someone tell me if they see a problem in using an electrically switched
fuel selector as is found in multi-tanked trucks as opposed to the manual
valve that is typically used? As I see it the negatives are a slightly more
complicated installation, and being stuck with whatever tank is selected
should the valve or electrical system fail.
On the other hand, it seems that a fairly simple auto control system could
be designed to manage fuel based on elapsed time, or fuel used (from a
totalizer), or ???? Obvious benefit from such a system would be reduced
pilot workload. Selection would be via a 3 position switch, left, right,
auto. Simple manual on/off valves could be installed on each tank to turn
off fuel flow for maintenance or in case of emergency.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Flaps mounting |
> How do you locate the three bearing blocks that hold the wd-613 electric
> flap actuator arm? I have the EF kit from Van's and did get a plan
Alex answered the questions pretty well but I just wanted to add that
from the plans (when I did it anyway, they may have changed since then)
there was a big ambiguity -- the two side bearing blocks were shown with
the holes offset vertically which was not the case, while the hole in
the center IS offset vertically but there was no drawing which showed
the vertical orientation of this block. I fought with this and changed
it once and then changed it back -- in the end I think it can go either
way, but you should be aware of the following:
- Mount the center block first, it will determine the vertical
orientation of the side blocks.
- The exact placement of the forward end of the piece of channel that
the motor attaches to (forgive me for not having part #s handy) will
change depending on variations in the height of the actuator arm. If
the forward bottom end of this channel is mounted too far back, the
forward end of the actuator arm will drag on it. So check this
clearance when you locate the forward bottom end of the channel. I
had to put mine farther forward than the plans showed, even though I
mounted the center block hole low.
- If you plan to use carpet in the baggage compartment and want it to
run forward to the seat backs, you might want to mount the center
block with the hole high so there is clearance under the bar.
- If you mount it hole low, you will need to notch out the floorboards
forward of the F-605 bulkhead where the bolts for the side bearing
blocks go through. Not a big deal, just FYI.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Auto Conversion/Aerobatics |
<< Does anyone have any reason to believe an auto conversion we be any more
or
any less reliable in an RV while doing aggressive aerobatics?
Thanks in advance.
Mike Kiess (RV-6AQB on the way!) >>
Have you heard of Ray Ward? Or better, have you heard his a/c? Ray has the
BD-4 with the small-block Chevy. Mucho macho sound! ( Insert Tim Taylor
grunting here) Anyway, his next project is another BD design, I think -8.
It's supposed to be a Sukhoi killer, and has an even more pumped up Chevy in
it turning a 4 blade MT 108" prop. This thing is supposed to be extremely
aerobatic, so I guess I'm saying yes, somebody is going to be doing hard acro
with an auto/PSRU equipped a/c. I'm not sure of the type or manufacturer of
his PSRU.
Keep you eye out for this bird!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pick up tube |
<< rst time builder so I'm not much of a contributor. Working with that
awful proseal on the fuel tanks. My quetion to some of u flying rv types
is did u clamp down the fuel pickup tube inside the tank??????
Joe/wings >>
I know of one fellow that spun the fitting a bit when he attached the fuel
line, and as a result, spun the pickup upward. He sure did carry a lot of
un-usable fuel around until he got that fixed!
Tie 'em down! A simple angle riveted (thru the 063 cover) of 032 with a hole
or slot to hold the tube from moving will be enough.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Sliding Canopy cutting & positioning |
For those of you who have successfully installed
a sliding canopy, where did the front of your
windshield end up? A couple inches in front of
the rollbar support? Right at the line of rivets across
the middle of the front deck?
I've got all my initial trimming done, and I thought
it would be more obvious where it should fall at this
point. Help!
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME working on the sliding canopy...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rear Jump Seat |
<< Has anyone thought of putting a small jump seat in the rear of a 6A for a
small child? I have seen it done in a Glasair II. I would love to take my
daughter up until reaches 60 lbs!
Paul >>
We did this to my friend's -6, and took my son to a fly-in. It was set-up
much like the jump seat in my dad's 1963 172. Plenty of legroom for his
little legs. We even put a short length of broom stick inserted into a
weighted cupholder so he would have some control in case of pilot
incapacatation. ;-) A second portable intercom plugged into his mom's headset
plugs allowed him to yak to her. Boy, those little people have a lot to say
when they get wound up.
Wouldn't ya know? The judges loved it, and awarded my friends an best of show
award! Dang! They ignored my -4!
I couldn't figure out any way to get him a jump seat in the Rocket (windows
and a belt in the luggage compartment?), and now he's too big to hop in the
back of the -6. I see a Bonanza in my future....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caummisa(at)arn.net (Richard Caummisar) |
| Subject: | Re: ways to heat a garage and winter |
Hey Mark,
We've got some mixed waste (i.e. radioactive mixed with hazardous waste)
here
at my job. Can we come dump it along with your Alodine chemicals outback?
: )
>> With winter coming on and my wing kit due to arrive in December, I am
>> concerned about how I will etch and Alodine my spars when it is below
>> freezing out. Ribs could probably be done in a bucket with repeated trips
>> outside for dumping, but I have no ideas about etching long pieces in the
>> winter.
>>
>> How have others dealt with etching big pieces in the winter ?
>>
>> Mark McGee
>> RV4 Elevators
|>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ways to heat a garage |
Pat,
I used the same type unit to heat my garage over a 4.5 year period. I
noticed no
residue. I wouldnt worry about it, these heaters are a great way to heat the
garage.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Constant Speed |
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com (Don R. Jordan) |
>> Since I have never flown a CS, I do not see <<
With a fixed pitch, The pitch( mfg blade angle) is going to control RPM.
HP is a function of RPM & Torque.
Lower blade angle allows more RPM (Climb Prop)
Higher blade angle restricts RPM ( Cruise Prop)
Most prop designs are a trade-off between the two.
If you setup a fixed pitch airplane in cruise and:
Raise the nose - a/s decreases, climb increases & RPM under speeds
Lower the nose - a/s increases , climb decreases & RPM over speeds.
There are adjustable props ( you can change from low to high Pitch.)
The CS prop uses oil pressure from the engine & through the governor
(boost oil pump & sensing device.) supplies high oil pressure to a pitch
change mechanism (Dome) to move the blades. Your Prop control lever sets
the governor for the blade angle you want to maintain. Your blades have
weights that try to take the blades to high OR low pitch (dependant on
design)
The governor has "chinese weights" arrangement that controls pressure to
the dome based on the prop control setting & the load on the blade
weights.
If you setup a Constant speed prop airplane in cruse and:
Raise the nose - a/s decreases, climb increases & RPM is maintained
The prop is loaded & trys to under speed, so the gov changes the
pitch angle to maintain the setting you chose.
Lower the nose -a/s increases, climb decreases & RPM is maintained.
The governor senses unloading of the prop & changes the pitch
angle.
The marriage of MP & RPM together controls your HP. Ref. Aug.97 Rvator
Page 13 You can see that several MP's & RPM's will produce the same HP.
Don Jordan, RV-6A, #24330
Arlington, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: the trouble with media . . . |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III writes:
>
> And who are these major corporations and what do they have to offer
> you and I? And what is their interest in supporting the show except
> to please their stockholders.
Good point. People often point to NASCAR's business success as a
formula for success in similar activities, such as airshows. But
that "success" doesn't come without a price. Many, many auto
racing organizations have discovered that corporate sponsorship
gives the illusion of success for a few years, until the
corporation(s) decide they've gotten the optimal exposure for
their dollar. Then the whole house of cards collapses. NASCAR
succeeds mostly because it's built on a solid foundation of grass-
roots racing, which they have built up over a forty-odd-year period.
If the corporate sponsors went away, there would still be NASCAR
racing, for that reason. All that would happen is that the salaries
would look worse and the paint jobs would look better.
Sorry for diverging so far from the subject of RVs.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
(-6 tail kit in office, awaiting shop)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Janicki" <SJANICKI(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rear Jump Seat |
--=_ORCL_54621559_0_11919710291429480
I am very interested. Please elaborate.
Regards,
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and
do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation.
When once you have tasted flight,
you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-- Leonardo Da Vinci
Steven B. Janicki
Director of Client Services
ORACLE Data Center
Voice (415)506-2740
Fax (415)633-2933
--=_ORCL_54621559_0_11919710291429480
Date: 28 Oct 97 22:11:13
From:"juno.com!smcdaniels(at)matronics.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)"
Subject:Re: RV-List: Rear Jump Seat
I had a seat installed in the baggage area of my RV-6A that I used for my
son until he was about 2 years old. At that time his sister was born
which meant he got to take mom's seat up front since there wasn't room
for everyone.
I did it using a childrens car seat and had it very securely anchored.
Let me know if you or anyone else is interested in that type of
installation and I will elaborate further.
Scott Mc
October 24, 1997 - October 29, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-do