RV-Archive.digest.vol-ds
November 19, 1997 - December 03, 1997
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>There is a possible fix for potential danger from the wet wing fuel cells
>just
>over the horizon. There is a project right now under way to market a V-4
>TurboDiesel(200HP) . This engine runs on Jet-A, which is alot less volatile
>than Avgas or autofuel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oh, the choices |
| From: | bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com (Robert L Reeves) |
Have you checked out the -8? More baggage room (in the front), more
people room, upgraded for the larger engine, and cleaner lines (IMHO).
It may well be my next one!
Bob Reeves
Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4
Hidden River Airport,
Sarasota, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
<< If there is anyone who has installed a navaid (or other) autopilot on a
-4,
could you please describe the installation? Mine has footwells for rear
passenger, which might limit the space for the servo.
Pat Allender,
Iowa City
RV 4 Pat A(at)aol.com >>
Pat:
We have installed the Navaid servo on a customer's Rocket, and we put the
srevo exactly where the footwells would have been. A conversation with
another Rocketman led to an alternate location: forward of the spar, under
the left side fwd floor pc. (Attach the actuator arm to the front of the
torque tube) This area is somewhat larger on the Rocket, compared to the -4.
I'm waiting on delivery of the servo for our current project, so I can't give
you dimensions to do a mock-up.
I understand you could also put it in the wing, near the ail bellcrank.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gretz, Warren" <GretzW(at)tcplink.nrel.gov> |
| Subject: | Static Port/Pitot Tube |
If you use one of my installation kits of pitot tube mounting
bracket
and one of the heated pitot tubes I also sell, which is the AN5814
with static source built into the tube, you do not need to install
any
additional static ports in the rear of the fuselage. Someone
recently
asked me if it would be best to use a pitot tube with static source
and also install the static port in the rear fuselage, just for the
accuracy it may make. My answer to the question was, it is not
necessary and also will just make additional places for the static
system to develop leaks which would be bad for accuracy. The heated
pitot tubes with static sources in them are all accurate. It is the
location of the pitot tube that makes them non-accurate. My
recommended placement of the AN5814 pitot tube, which is in my
complete instructions, will make for an accurate system. The
entrance
to the dynamic source of the pitot tube, in my installation kit, is
nearly the same location as that of the known accurate placement of
Vans bent aluminum tube pitot. Vans placement of his pitot tube is
a
compromise location that works very well. The only truly accurate
location is at least 3-4 feet in front of any surface that is
passing
through totally undisturbed air. That is why you will see the long
stinger pitot tubes with static ports in them on the aircraft that
are
undergoing very critical and accurate flight testing.
You may contact me for a flyer on my installation kits and pitot
tubes
at the address below.
Gretz Aero
Warren Gretz
3664 E. Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
gretzw(at)tcplink.nrel.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
I just finish my ailerons and flaps. Both wings have been bottom skined, the
fuel tanks and leading edges are complete. I started in May 97 and I'm
trying to find out how long I have left.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allison throttle body. |
Let me kn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allison throttle body. |
L
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Allison throttle body. |
Let me know how I can reach this guy.
Blue Skies
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
| Subject: | Bolt hole clearance El Horn |
Counterfeit bolts are a real problem. As are counterfeit piping
fittings, pipe, aircraft components, etc... Check your sources - cheap
is a pretty good indicator of a fake. Insist on material certification
showing origin of material and manufacturer.
Good thing we have all of these wonderful trade policies with China and
countries south of the border (since these are generally the folks who
like to make and sell counterfeit goods)!
Bryan Jones
JONESB(at)GEON.COM
> > Be careful with assuming all socket head cap screws are Grade 8,last
> company I was with had a purchasing agent that found a great buy on
> SHCS's
> from out east somewhere,China? We soon found out why they were cheap
> as the
> heads parted company at less torque than a Grade 5 would
> take.Incidentally
> they looked great with a Cad.finish[that may be the way to recognise
> them
> visually].
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GBaker24(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oh, the choices |
Paul,
Re your decision on the -4 or the -6A, I am building a -6 and have ridden
many times with a friend in his -4. I love the airplane but decided against
building the -4 because after the initial joy of riding in an RV wore off, I
found myself occasionally getting bored looking at my friend's head and
shoulders. I knew that if I didn't fully enjoy the ride back there, I would
not get my wife or two sons to go on many rides with me. So I decided on the
-6. If I knew that I would only be going by myself the majority of flights, I
would definitely have chosen the -4. What a sleek design!
Good luck with your decision. See if you can arrange a ride in a -4 for your
wife and ask for her opinion. You'll probably find that you will need her
support many times during the construction period and it will help if she has
some feel for the end result.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (starting on wing spar)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)roxanne.llnl.gov (Matt G. Dralle 510-422-4896) |
| Subject: | Re: List Status! Please Read... |
>--------------
>
>
>Listers,
>
>As promised, Matronics is upgrading their Internet connectivitiy this week.
>As you might have noticed, there havn't been any List messages for a couple of
>days. Processing of List traffic has been disabled until I am confident that
>everything is stable and all MX and domain records have been updated
>correctly. As you might have guessed, this is not the case just yet and I hope
>to have things back online by the weekend.
>
>Please *do not* post any messages to the List until I announce that
>connectivity has been completely restored. Any messages that have been
>posted in the last couple of days have been queued and I will forward them
>when things are working correctly.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-List Admin.
>Matronics
>
>
>--
>
>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
>
>
>
>--------------
--
Matt G. Dralle
Internet LAN/WAN Communications Specialist
Open LabNet | Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
7000 East Ave | PO Box 808 | L-267 | Livermore | California | 94550
510-422-4896 - Voice | 510-422-2425 - FAX | dralle(at)llnl.gov - Email
________________________________________________________________________________
Guys, and gals, where applicable
Someone recently posted an inquiry about what he should do about a few *extra
holes* he had drilled in his rib flanges. Some of the answers I read in
subsequent postings, sounded downright cavalier to me, and could leave the
impression that its *OK* to have a few *exyra holes* in your stringers,
ribs, and bulkheads.
Depending on *where* those extra holes are drilled, and the structural
requirement of the component, this can be relatively serious, in a dangerous
sort of way.
Anytime *extra* material is removed from a structural component, whether by
drilling or other mechanical processes such as filing, ETC., the strength of
the component is degraded in proportion to the amount of material removed.
I am presently working on an RV-4 kit, in which *someone* drilled a *few*
holes in the wrong places, along with a few *extra* holes. Basically, I am
having to *re-build* this aircraft, to a condition that will meet my
requirements, and those I consider reasonable to maintain structural
integrity. (I have reasonably high, but not impossible standards.)
It isnt so much where or how one drills an extra hole that matters, but what
one does to evaluate the error, and effect a repair which will maintain or
improve the structural integrity of the component. My advice-such as it is,
would have been to fabricate a small doubler for the flange, of the same
thickness and type of material, that would be of sufficient length to pick
up, at a minimum, at least one fastener, either side of the location of the
incorrectly drilled hole. Then re-drill the hole in the correct orientation,
and when you fasten everything together at final assembly, you have a
reasonably sound repair in place. Having accomplished this, then, you
shouldnt have to worry too much about 1 or 2 misplaced or double drilled
holes.
The airplane that I have, per the evaluation that I have done-so far, would
have been a structurally deadly piece of machinery, had it ever made it to
completion in the condition that was prevalent at the time I purchased it.
(Some people should never have tools in their hands. What can I say?) I would
seriously hope, that this aircraft would have never made it past any kind of
inspection regarding its airworthiness. In fact, I am rather amazed that it
made it as far as it did, before someone realized that it would wind up being
an aluminum coffin. At least a modicum of common sense finally did prevail.
Some questions, and/or statements that I do not see (at least as often as I
think they should be addressed) on the List, are those that are directly
related to, and concerning safety. For instance; How safe do you think your
machine would be, with a few *extra* holes drilled in its structural
members? The RV series of aircraft are stressed for a specific number of
positive and negative *Gs.* This is providing everything is done correctly,
according to the plans. To what degree might these stress factors be
degraded, by mistakes left uncorrected?
If you took your airplane kit to a certificated A&P (preferably a good one)
to build for you, would you be willing to accept the kind of quality from him
or her, if they told you they had drilled a *few extra holes* in a stringer,
rib, or bulkhead flange, but that you wont be able to see them, once the
skins are on? Not me!!!
Do you envision the probability that one day, you will be wanting to sell
this aircraft to someone else? Is this condition one that will be at the
forefront of disclosure? Will pictures of the *extra holes* be included in
your construction log, along with the repairs you made, if any, to correct
your mistakes?
For my particular project, I am having to rebuilt the entire horizontal
stabilizer. My evaluation- so far- has indicated that *quality* workmanship
was sacrificed in the quest for speed of project completion, and the obvious
desire to save a few bucks. I have not done anything more than a cursory
evaluation of the wings, fuselage, or flight controls, other than to have
looked them over sufficiently as to realize that I will be
replacing/rebuilding a lot of the parts that I consider out of limits. (Vans
can definitely expect to hear from me on a fairly regular basis.)
Im not building a showpiece, so youll probably never see me in the winners
circle at Oshkosh. I am, however, building my airplane to fly. The prime
consideration that I try to keep in mind, is that it is going to be my
keyster sitting in the seat, just behind the instrument panel. The individual
riding along behind me, will more than likely be someone who is quite near
and dear to me. Safety is of the utmost importance to me.
Someone said that *perfection* is impossible. I will not presume to disagree
with that. I will add, however, that the *pursuit* of perfection is NOT
impossible. When the pursuit of perfection falls a bit short of the mark,
then take the steps required to make the necessary repairs to maintain
structural integrity, and move on. Do this, even at the risk of having to
swallow your pride once in a while. Swallowing pride, is a heck of a lot
easier on one, than trying to swallow the third rock from the sun, at about
210 MPH.
Flight safety begins, when you receive your empennage kit.
Build safe, and fly safe.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
Slave to the Junkyard Dog RV-4 S/No. 4239
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
| Subject: | Begining Empanage! |
If you are talking about avgas/gasoline, it vaporizes - I don't believe
it causes a threat to the groundwater supply (in small quantities). The
current belief is that this small, incidental spilled gasoline causes
air pollution. This is why gas stations in dense metropolitan areas
have been required to install vapor recovery systems.
My opinion is that this threat is about as insignificant as the claimed
threat caused by weed eaters and lawn mowers. We have some pretty big
problems in this country and this isn't one of them.
Personally, I kill the fire ant beds near the hanger. Now, you talk
about a threat...
Bryan Jones
JONESB(at)GEON.COM
> <<
> I replace the water fairly often... I just chuck it out over the
> concrete,
> aiming for it to kill the moss and stuff, and to stop the grass from
> growing over the path.
> >>
> Just thought I'd let you know - you might end up sending these
> chemicals to
> your grand kids water supply - maybe even your own!!
>
> At the Flight School - where I rent, they even have me pour the fuel
> samples
> into a gas can by the pumps - so it does wreck the pavement, and so
> that it
> doesn't get into the eater supply - as they are on a well nearby!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dudly(at)onlinecol.com |
I have been trying to get on your mailing list for the RV-4 newsletter,
so far I have not been able to figure how to get through, fill out the
application.
Sincerely,
Spence Bergner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Duckworks landing lights |
Has anyone installed these lights in the wings?Following the instructions I
used the template to cut out the holes in the wing. After this point
things became hazy. Oversized flat washers with counter sunk bolts just
dont make sense. The examples consist of four black and white photo's
which are not very clear. I called Don Wintz (not sure of spelling) at 503
696 7185 and all I get is a tape recording. Might be I need to turn my
crystal ball a couple degrees.
Joe/wing
joe(at)mcione.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
I received a sporting goods catalog which lists the new pocket size 12
channel "GPS Pioneer" by Magellan for $94.95. Includes 100 pt storage
and 1 route with 10 legs. Specs include all the basic fuctions, but
doesn't give max speed.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oh, the choices |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Paul,
Boy, is that an easy one. Build the RV-4! It handles much more nimbly
than the RV-6, has a tailwheel vice the RV-6A, and is undeniably
prettier. If price were not a factor, I would recommend the RV-8 for the
extra passenger and baggage room. But if you have found a $7,000 RV-4
kit, buy it now!
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 installing nutplates for wing intersection fairings
writes:
>
>People, I have encountered a crisis. Well, maybe not a crisis, but
>certainly a dilemma. I am just about ready to complete my order for
>my -6A,
>and suddenly the -4 is growing on me..fast.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
I just finished riveting my HS rear spar. It's the first time I ever
bucked rivets, and I have alot (about 10-15) rivets with "smiley" faces
on them. I think I know why I did it, I was holding the gun with an
injured hand (the reason I was bucking and not squeezing in the first
place), and it was too shaky with the gun. The problem was solved about
halfway through when I switched gun hands. Are these rivets structurally
sound? Van's manual says they are OK, but ugly. I dread having to drill
all these out. I drilled 2 or 3 that were so screwed up they left dings
in the HS-609s, and of the three, I messed one up so bad I had to put a
larger rivet in the hole. Should I continue, or start over? Any help is
greatly appreciated.
I am also thinking of starting a small list for builders just opening
the box. Nothing as exotic as Matt's list, just a small group of newbies
who wish to correspond regularly about the very basic first steps of
building. If you are interested, drop me an email.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 Emp
moejoe03(at)erols.com
exposed fasteners (e.g. tip-up roll-over); or is
not to be finish painted at all (e.g. rear plexy or baggage floor etc. that
will be covered by material).
Hope this helps.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
I am just now drilling my fuselage skeleton so my comments are
all out of ignorance. It has occurred to me that one could paint the
parts of the skeleton that will show after assembly, then paint the
inside of the skins that will show, then rivet it together. This would
leave the rivet heads unpainted and probably bucking bar marks. What
are other disadvantages of this approach?
I am thinking through the whole assembly/painting sequence to
figure out the best time to paint and, never having done this before, I
am having some difficulty. Suggestions would be appreciated.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6 fuselage skeleton
cause of the performance
increase that it provides over a fixed pitch prop.
Otherwise, I wouldn't have CONTRIBUTED my time to its development.
JIm Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank in crash |
The experts can help you design a survivable fuel system for your
aircraft, however there are some easy to do things you can do without
even turning a wrench on the aircraft.
It's called Nomex, and all military flyers wear it. I still have my
suits from the service but I think they run about $200 commercially.
Also, don't forget that canopy cutting knife!
Safe landings.
Gary,
6A - HS609
and eliminate the rubbing?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gear Fairings |
<< Tracy Saylor's are $195, made for the RV-6, and come with a bracket
to attach them securely to the gear leg with hose clamp. >>
Tim-
I used Tracy's gear leg fairings on my 6A. They are first rate and look
dynamite! Much better than stock ones. I heartily recommend them.
They are easy to install but I preferred to not drill any holes in the
trailing edge and instead just taped them with Kapton tape to keep them from
racking and clamped them lightly between two pieces of aluminum angle with
spring clamps until the flox and vinylester cured. They are straight as an
arrow.
You clamp them to the top of the gear leg and then with the weight off the
gear you align them and foam them in place top and bottom with the two-part
foam.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Interior Painting |
> << Is it advisable to paint the
> interior prior to installing all the cables, rudder pedels, seats,
> electric flaps, and other miscellaneous items >>
>
> IMO, yes, if you are able. It yields a higher quality appearance. Compare a
> repainted auto with the original paint job and you'll see what I mean.
I agree. The trick is to not scratch up your paint installing
everything. Get some of that thin foam packing material and wrap it
around corners that could get scuffed, tape it on with masking tape.
Use the kind of tape that's made for delicate surfaces and doesn't have
much "stick" to it so it will be easy to remove. Use lots of towels,
foam pads, etc. to cover floor and seat surfaces. You'll still have
some touch-up to do but it will be a lot easier than painting after
everything's in there.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Compass and Fuel Quantity Required? |
I am laying out my instrument panel for an RV-8 to be completed eventually.
My question is; Am I required to install fuel quantity indicators and a
compass or are these optional? These are items I have never used on my RV-4
and wonder if I should leave them out as part of my weight saving plan?
Opinions, please?
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
riation in the outer diameter of the
tubing, due to the corrugations, cause the tubing to move around a bit.
Would chafing be a problem if not anchored into each rib? I've thought
of using thin wall PVC, but there's just something lacking in the
aesthetics department there! Heck, I used the stuff for my garden
irrigation system fer cryin out loud...:)
Any thoughts?
Brian Denk
-8 #379
riveting ribs to spars
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
joseph.wiza wrote:
> Has anyone installed these lights in the wings?Following the instructions I
> used the template to cut out the holes in the wing. After this point
> things became hazy. Oversized flat washers with counter sunk bolts just
> dont make sense. The examples consist of four black and white photo's
> which are not very clear.
Joe--
I also did a lot of head scratching when I looked at the kit. However,
in retrospect, things go together pretty simply. If you have anyone in
your area who has already installed the kit, a visit will clear things
up. I meant to contact Don Wentz with similar complaints, but never did.
A couple of well-drawn diagrams would be much more helpful than the
photos.
Another thing to keep in mind is that you can modify them as you see fit.
It's your plane.
--Don McNamara
wings still
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS ANTENNA PLACEMENT ON RV6 |
A
>an RV6/A? The instructions state that it should be placed topside as it
>needs to have a line of sight to the GPS Satellite System.
I saw a picture of a 6 that had the antennea located under the cowl in the
engine compartment, any thoughts out there?
Tom Martin
RV4 going in a box this week to England!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The case for critical thinking . . . |
<3.0.1.16.19971118093824.22278bae(at)dtc.net>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Bob (and all participants),
First off I think I gave a bad impression; that I was offended by
your response. I wasn't, but do have concerns about the direction I have
seen some strings go.
You are correct in saying that any of us contributing should be
willing substantiate what we say if asked, I did feel like I was more put
on the spot than asked questions (my misinterpretation).
I can appreciate your comment of not having enough time
(on top of that I'm not very accomplished on a key board) which is part
of the reason I didn't directly respond to your questions
Bottom line though is that I had a concern for the list that
there may be a lot of people on the list with good ideas that are
intimidated away from participating because of some of the discussion
that they see.
Like I said before; no hard feelings, and I enthusiastically
except your offer.
Sincerely
Scott Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oh, the choices |
A
>Paul:
>
>Evaluate your long term needs. If this is a family project including
>finacing/help/enjoyment you will never be sorry to build a 6/6A. On any
>type of x-country it will get very boring to sit in the back of a tandem.
>Your PAX and even the best of wifes will get frustrated/annoyed/antsie etc.
>Don't let the looks fool you into something you will regret later. Remember
>all the convertible cars around. Yes they are great to look at, but less to
>drive.
>
I have to take a shot at this one! Check out the width of the cockpit in a
six with two people side by side. Now add up the width of the RV4 or RV8.
You have a lot more room in the tandem aircraft. As far as sitting in the
back goes, the visiblity is excellent and I have had no complaints. Most of
our flying is around home with a few crosscountry trips thrown in. You just
cannot beat center line seating from a pilots perspective.
Tom Martin
RV-4 sold HR2 on the gear!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: GPS ANTENNA PLACEMENT ON RV6 |
I have an Apollo 360. It came with a length of coax to hook it up.
RG-58A if I remember. The engineeering book I checked, lists it as
having a lower loss than RG-58 C/U. Apollo recommends using a higher
quality coax if the installation from the receiver to antenna is longer
than the 15 foot they supply. When I looked up the price of the coax, I
mounted the antenna where they recommended. Top, behind the sliding
canopy. I considered placing it under the cowl but the manufactures spec
for the antenna does not rate the antenna to a high enough temperature.
I think it was 50 C. The installation under the fiberglass does
attenuate the signal but not enough that I would worry about. I was not
going to run the risk of destroying a $300 antenna.
The GPS signal strength can be monitored on one of the receiver menu
screens. I drove around the airport in my pick-up with the antenna
located in the bed with and without the top of the cowl above the antenna
to check signal strength. I base my comment of the fibergalss
attenuating the signal on the results.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
writes:
>
>>Does anyone have any recommendations at to the placement of a GPS
>Antenna on
>>an RV6/A?
>
> The the fellow with the outstanding looking 6A located his GPS
>ant.
>inside the wing tip and is quoted as working very good.....
>
>Have a good one.
> Denny RV-6
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "I THINK, THEREFORE YOU ARE" <PKIRKPATRICK(at)FAB9.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS ANTENNA PLACEMENT ON RV6 |
I was out in Camarrillo last week and saw a GPS antenna mounted just under the
cowling on a bracket a few inches in front of the firewall. The antenna had a
good view of the sky from its location and should work great. Temps where it
was mounted shouldn't get much hotter than an antenna on a dark surface in the
sun and the fiberglass is almost transparent to the GPS signals.
Pat Kirkpatrick
RV-6A starting fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
<< I called Don Wintz (not sure of spelling) at 503
696 7185 and all I get is a tape recording. Might be I need to turn my
crystal ball a couple degrees.
Joe/wing
joe(at)mcione.com
>>
Joe:
Contact Don Wentz : jwentz@columbia-center.org
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | List Status! Please Read... |
Thanks for update, Matt
Ed
----------
From: Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001
Subject: RV-List: List Status! Please Read...
Date: Thursday, November 20, 1997 6:22PM
510-606-1001)
Listers,
As promised, Matronics is upgrading their Internet connectivitiy this week.
As you might have noticed, there havn't been any List messages for a couple
of
days. Processing of List traffic has been disabled until I am confident
that
everything is stable and all MX and domain records have been updated
correctly. As you might have guessed, this is not the case just yet and I
hope
to have things back online by the weekend.
Please *do not* post any messages to the List until I announce that
connectivity has been completely restored. Any messages that have been
posted in the last couple of days have been queued and I will forward them
when things are working correctly.
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: the case for critical thinking . . . |
> You are correct in saying that any of us contributing should be
>willing substantiate what we say if asked, I did feel like I was more put
>on the spot than asked questions (my misinterpretation).
It's a natural feeling. You should see some of the exchanges
bewteen myself and Paul Messinger over on the Kitfox list.
Paul and I got off to a rocky start some months ago but we've
forged an association upon which I place much value. We jump
right into each other's laps from time-to-time and I sometimes
have the same reaction you're describing . . . but after I READ
the words, work to deduce the meaning and reply with the goal
of clarifying ideas and facts, the bottom line is we both
benefit. By conducting the conversation in front of list members,
those who choose to tap the data flow can benefit too.
Debate is necessary, sometimes even heated debate . . . I can
get pretty wound up with some of my best friends. We just
keep grin'n while we're talking . . . that's the real problem
with cyber-speak . . . no real good way to
> Bottom line though is that I had a concern for the list that
>there may be a lot of people on the list with good ideas that are
>intimidated away from participating because of some of the discussion
>that they see.
Hey, the best things in life are not won without breaking a
sweat or getting your heals nipped. There is an old adage
about keeping out of the kitchen if you can't stand the heat!
For those who find probing, perhaps heated conversation
concomfortable, drop one of the participants a direct e-mail
with your idea or comment. As a matter of courtesy, anyone
who receives the idea should add it to the conversation
without directly involving or even revealing the source.
It doesn't matter where the idea originates as long as it
gets due consideration.
Above all we need to keep reminding ourselves and those who
watch us that the goal here is to build the best airplanes
that have ever existed. Having said that, we know that the
"bell-curve" is a fact of nature . . . it's shape can be
bent toward trash or excellence but in the final analysis
there's always going to be some airplanes built that you and
I wouldn't want to ride in. What we do here can only tend
to advance the whole.
> Like I said before; no hard feelings, and I enthusiastically
>except your offer.
>
Where do you live?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Interior Painting |
Randall Henderson wrote:
> I agree. The trick is to not scratch up your paint installing
> everything. Get some of that thin foam packing material and wrap it
> around corners that could get scuffed, tape it on with masking tape.
> Use the kind of tape that's made for delicate surfaces and doesn't have
> much "stick" to it so it will be easy to remove. Use lots of towels,
> foam pads, etc. to cover floor and seat surfaces. You'll still have
> some touch-up to do but it will be a lot easier than painting after
> everything's in there.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6
> randall(at)edt.com
I see some interior's lined with some type of cloth.
any opinions on this route?
Does anyone have the URL for infinity stick grips?
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone surprised? (fluff) |
>CESSNA REVISES SINGLE-ENGINE PRICING: EARLY BUYERS GOT A DEAL?
>Remember all the grousing about the price of a new Skyhawk or Skylane?
>Well, turns out the early birds are a steal. The company told AVweb
>last last week that it has increased the price of both the model 172R
>Skyhawk and 182S Skylane. The base price on the Skyhawk climbs from
>$124,500 to $133,700, while the price of the Skylane goes from $190,600
>to $217,900. Some previous options are now standard, as is a three
>bladed prop on the Skylane.
IMHO, anyone who truly believes that certified aviation, including
the much touted AGATE program is going to "revitalize general aviation"
has been paying too much attention to the speeches of bureaucrats
and marketing executives. If there IS to be a future, I'll suggest
it's right HERE
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry H. Prado" <jerryprado(at)wa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing conduit installation |
I am using some heat shrink tubing to add rigidity and protect the segments
that are in contact with the ribs. 1 1/4" dia. will not collapse the conduit
when fully shrunk and will create a snug fit.
Jerry Prado
RV6a - still on the wings.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, November 24, 1997 2:38 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wing conduit installation
>
>Greetings friends,
>
>I just received some of the corrugated plastic conduit from Van's for
>routing the tip and landing light wiring through my -8 wings. Does the
>conduit need to be anchored (glued???) into each rib so it doesn't shift
>around during flight? The holes are just large enough to allow the
>tubing to fit through..but the variation in the outer diameter of the
>tubing, due to the corrugations, cause the tubing to move around a bit.
>Would chafing be a problem if not anchored into each rib? I've thought
>of using thin wall PVC, but there's just something lacking in the
>aesthetics department there! Heck, I used the stuff for my garden
>irrigation system fer cryin out loud...:)
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Brian Denk
>-8 #379
>riveting ribs to spars
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fire suppression, crashworthiness |
Now that was interesting! I have a few more questions if you would
indulge me....
Using halon properly, a breathable
>environment can be produced that will not support combustion.
I'm trying to understand how a halon setup would work in an accident. I
understand how it would work in a closed environment ( like a computer room
). However, in an accident, the engine compartment, passenger compartment
etc. are essentially ripped open to some extent. In this scenario, it
would seem that the gas would simply be dissipated leaving the hot engine
to start a fire.
Any thoughts on this? Do you have any special plans for your own airplane?
>I don't have any stats on header tank susceptibility, but I haven't
>personally noted any difference. If a tank ruptures, the fuel sprays and
>runs everywhere. In an impact crater, it doesn't matter if it originated
>inside the fuse or outside!
Very interesting. I guess the good news is that I can stop avoiding
airplanes with
header tanks.
Thanks again
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Oh, the choices |
Spoken like a true -8 owner/builder! Its not as pretty as a -4, and you'll
have to prove to me that its faster than a comparably powered and propped
-4. You got me on the baggage and passenger space, but its also more
expensive. If faster, roomier, sexier, is what you really want talk to Mark
Frederick about the Harmon Rocket.
All the above said with tongue in cheek. Its a personal decision based on
wants and needs. Seriously, whatever you decide on, make sure its what you
really want. Dont be swayed by others opinions, cost, or practicallity, if
these things are leading you away from what you really want. Its hard enough
to stay focused on the building, without having to deal with the mental
anguish of knowing that you are expending all this effort on a project you
dont really want.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings done!, saving pennies for fuse)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>What about a -8? It has the looks of the -4, the baggage capacity of the
>-6, and is faster than both!
>
>Moe Colontonio
>-8 emp
>Cherry Hill, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing conduit installation |
>I just received some of the corrugated plastic conduit from Van's for
>routing the tip and landing light wiring through my -8 wings. Does the
>conduit need to be anchored (glued???) into each rib so it doesn't shift
>around during flight? The holes are just large enough to allow the
>tubing to fit through..but the variation in the outer diameter of the
>tubing, due to the corrugations, cause the tubing to move around a bit.
>Would chafing be a problem if not anchored into each rib? I've thought
>of using thin wall PVC, but there's just something lacking in the
>aesthetics department there! Heck, I used the stuff for my garden
>irrigation system fer cryin out loud...:)
>
>Any thoughts?
I am planning on putting RTV on each of the ribs its goes thru.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
RV-6 wings
rver(at)caljet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Whelen power supply |
I'm about to mount the whelen A490A TS CF power supply's on the end of the
wings somewhere. Looks like its going to be the end rib or the outboard
end of the spar. I dont like the idea of drilling into the spar?????
Joe/wing looking for lost fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
It's that time of year again guys, well, and Cheryl. That time of year
where we can justify additional tool purchases to SAVE MONEY! Yes, we're
builders and expected to give gifts and we have the ability to make out own
gifts if we only had a _____________(fill in), well, yes, some free time
too, but let's not get caught up with details. So how 'bout some great
holiday gift ideas, preferably riveted, and maybe needing a pneumatic
squeezer, to cut down on the build time.
my contribution - my brother works as product designer for a mtn. bike
company, so these guys latch on to any buzz word they can in order to come
up with the latest and greatest. Last years big hit was a tree shaped
ornament from aluminum. Big deal right? Prominently displayed was the
"Reynolds 2024-T2" (or whatever the skins say). This is as hot as "billet
machined" or "CAD" in the bike industry. Exotic stuff, got a garage full
of the scraps.
I saw am aluminum sunglasses case, $140, real Range Rovery, rivets around
all the seams. Hmmmm, with a sheet metal pan break I could......
kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing conduit installation |
>
> Does the
>conduit need to be anchored (glued???) into each rib so it doesn't shift
>around during flight?
I put the same conduit in my wings. I made the hole just big enough that I
had to stretch the condit in order to get it to go in easily. It is still a
fairly loose in the hole but because of the ribbed design will not move
inboard/outboard . I did however, clean the hole out to a 400 grit finish so
that even if it does move shouldn't chaff the hose. If you made your holes
so large that the conduit moves through them I would suggest that you only
need to tighten it up in a few of the ribs,say four.This should be
sufficient to hold everything from moving. Maybe finding a rubber grommet
which will make the hole a smaller diameter will work for you. Happy Building
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4 drilling VS to fuse/HS
Saskatoon , Canada
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: paralleled batteries |
>not good to have two (batteries) in parallel, if 1 shorts youve got a
tremendious drain
>on the other in an instant, check out the recreational veh. people they have
>battery isolators.
Let's look at the physics of the matter. How do batteries short?
(-) to (+) terminal or one-cell-at-a-time? If a 12-volt battery
shorts a single cell, it becomes a 10-volt battery. Now the ideal
charging voltage for the battery becomes 11.5 volts as opposed to
the 13.8 or so that exists on the bus.
How does the system react? The battery becomes another load on
the system. How much of a load? Consider the following: If ideal
charging voltage is 2.3 volts per cell (13.8/6) and we've now
got a 10 volt battery (13.8/5) the voltage applied to each cell
is now 2.76 volts . . . an increase of .46 volts per cell. Hmmmm,
how much current will a cell draw if "overcharged" by .46 volts?
We could find out by applying 16.5 volts to a fully charged battery.
When this test was conducted in the laboratory on the B&C RG
batteries, the charging current eventually fell to less than 1 amp
and the battery temperature rose less than 10 degrees C. The battery
quietly went south.
From experience, I'll guess that it won't exceed 20 amps and that
for only a short time. If it's a "flooded" battery, the liquid in
the working cells begins to disassociate rapidly into hydrogen/
oxygen gasses . . . plates get bubbles on them and internal resistance
tends to rise. RG batteries have so little water in them that severe
abuse tends to "poof" the littel bit of water out the pressure
relief valves and it's all over.
Flooded batteries will vent a lot of hydrogen/oxygen in this mode
and quite frankly, THIS is the real hazard to continued flight.
They may spit liquid water/acid out the caps too. This is why
they need a battery box. The RG battery will sit there and quietly
die . . . you won't know it happened until you check the battery
during next preflight.
Now, let's assume there's another battery in parallel with the first.
The alternator is probably going to carry the excess 20 amps or
so needed to supply the extra demand of the failing battery.
Bus voltage will stay up where it belongs
and except for an abnormally high alternator loadmeter reading,
you probably won't notice anything. If the added load causes
the alternator to go into current limit, the bus voltage sags.
How far? Depends on the total load and some alternator characteristics.
If below 13.0 volts you SHOULD get a low volts warning light to
tell you something is amiss. But in any case, the votage isn't
going to drop enough to even begin to discharge the battery
that's still okay. Recall that a battery can DELIVER energy
at 12.5 volts or LESS.
Once you get a low-voltage light, if you want to play airborne
systems analysis and/or mechanic, you could turn the batteries
off one at a time to see if the low-volts light goes out. When
you do de-select the failed battery, the bus will come back up
and light will go out. On the other hand, if you have developed
a "plan-b" for electrical systems malfunctions, flipping three
switches at most automatically selects the alternate mode of
operation and you get back with the piloting task at hand.
The important item to note from this analysis is that while one
battery is dying, the otherone is not affected in any way that
requires immediate attention from the pilot.
basicaly two high current diodes, alt power goes into the
>common and comes out as 2 isolated outputs 1 for each battery. worked great
>on my race boat and rv, now its my planes turn.
Battery isolators have been around for years for a variety
of applications none of which have anything to do with protecting
one battery from the ravages of another battery. They are
commonly used in situations where there is minimal instrumentation
and no need for "Plan-B" development and implimentation.
Their primary value is to allow one to charge a battery in
a trailer/boat from the towing vehicle system while preventing
the towed appliance from loading the vehicle battery. I had
an uncle who stuck himself way out in the boonies because
he'd run down BOTH batteries while sitting and could not
start his truck.
The reason we use paralleled batteries in airplanes is so
that they may share engine cranking duties by virtue
of high-current, hard connections to the system via
battery contactors. By making them the same size, we
can rotate the installed batteries once a year . . . put
a new one in the main slot, move the 1 year old main to
the aux slot and put the old aux battery in your lawn
mower. Next year, repeat the exercise.
When no battery is more than two years old and one battery
is always less than one year old, the likelyhood of the
shorted cell scenario even occuring is very, very
close to ZERO. If it should happen, it's no big deal.
In the mean time, you enjoy a VERY reliable power
generation/storage system for keeping essential goodies
running.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Interior Painting |
> Does anyone have the URL for infinity stick grips?
>
> Craig Hiers
e-mail: 72124.347(at)compuserve.com
Home page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/INFINITY_Aerospace
Jack Abell
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
Los Angeles
________________________________________________________________________________
<< >I received a sporting goods catalog which lists the new pocket size 12
>channel "GPS Pioneer" by Magellan for $94.95. Includes 100 pt storage
>and 1 route with 10 legs. Specs include all the basic fuctions, but
>doesn't give max speed. >>
There is one as described that has been advertized in some boating magazines.
Look for it there. I don't believe it has much of a data base or speed
computing power.
Gene Francis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Hey, listers: Kelli and I are proud to announce that today, the 24th of
November, 1997, RV-4 232 Suzie Q took to the air. (!) No problems other
than the Right Rudder Blues (I should have offset the rudder more than 1/4
inch). Flew like a dream. I have never been in an "unfamiliar" airplane
before that felt more comfortable and familiar. I have "several hundred"
hours of just sitting in it in the garage getting familar with it and I
think that really helped. I will give more particulars later. Gotta leave
town for a few days.
Celebrating in Colorado
Michael
N 232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
I'm confused and could use a little help. I built the battery box for my
RV-6 per the instructions and plan to install it per the instructions at the
base of the firewall inside the cockpit. The top and sides are riveted
together so that the box comes off in one piece. Where do you run the wires
from the battery so that the cover can still come off? I must be missing
something obvious here.
Also, where would be a good place to mount the starter and battery
solenoids. My firewall has the constant speed prop box on it. Can I mount
it on the slope of the box? Do the solenoids need to be mounted vertically.
I'd appreciate any help.
Randy Pflanzer
RV-6 N417G (Just received Finishing Kit with new type-S cowls!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mick_G" <micky_g(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations!
Mick
-----Original Message-----
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Monday, November 24, 1997 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: First Flight
>
>Hey, listers: Kelli and I are proud to announce that today, the 24th of
>November, 1997, RV-4 232 Suzie Q took to the air. (!) No problems other
>than the Right Rudder Blues (I should have offset the rudder more than 1/4
>inch). Flew like a dream. I have never been in an "unfamiliar" airplane
>before that felt more comfortable and familiar. I have "several hundred"
>hours of just sitting in it in the garage getting familar with it and I
>think that really helped. I will give more particulars later. Gotta leave
>town for a few days.
>
>Celebrating in Colorado
>
>Michael
>
>N 232 Suzie Q
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Bob Reiff wrote:
> >I received a sporting goods catalog which lists the new pocket size 12
> >channel "GPS Pioneer" by Magellan for $94.95.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> did it give a model number?
Nope, just the name "GPS Pioneer". Says it's a new model available in
November. The photo doesn't look like the model 2000.
> if you can return the critter if you don't like it,
> by all means give it a try. if it's indeed one of the
> 2000 series receivers, i'm betting youl'll keep it.
Actually I already have a GPS (Skyforce). I posted the info for the
benefit of anyone else who is interested.
Bob Reiff
RV4 #2646, skinning fuselage.
Reiff Preheat Systems
FAA-PMA engine preheaters, RV wing skin heaters.
http://www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing conduit installation |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Brian,
If you cut the holes in the ribs to the smaller dimension of the conduit,
the ridges will lock the conduit in place at each rib. No glue is
required.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 wings permanently mounted!
writes:
>
>Greetings friends,
>
>I just received some of the corrugated plastic conduit from Van's for
>routing the tip and landing light wiring through my -8 wings. Does the
>
>conduit need to be anchored (glued???) into each rib?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Cablecraft controls |
If you have received Chief Aircraft's new catalog, you'll notice that they
have a nice little picture and listing for Cablecraft engine control cables.
It also turns out that Chief Aircraft is not able to speak intelligently on
this subject. The salesman finally gave me the telephone number for
Cablecraft (253-475-1080). Nor only was the guy at Cablecraft very
knowledgable and able to answer all my questions, he was able to sell me
the cables too, and at a price slightly better than Chief!
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
installing exhaust
down to the last 90 percent
r than 303 hose. It also has a pretty blue
outer sleeve (It's a shame to cover it with firesleeve).
They made the hoses and pressure tested them fore me while I waited.
All-in-All, my two 16-inch hoses cost me $37 including tax.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
installing exhaust
down to the last 90 percent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Getting in a -6 Slider |
Now that I have the Inst panel and firewall fwrd 99% done, (this means only
25% of the work is left), I find myself getting in and out a lot. When the
windsheild and its fairing that covers the rollbar is on, the only good
handhold goes away.
Have to admit I am not as flexible as I was when the ship was started, and am
over 6-2" with a scar down my back from overestimating my athlethic ability
30+ years ago.
So, how do you ladies and gents of the slightly age challenged variety get in
and out? My bird is a slider, but the tilt has nothing to grab on to
either.
I have given some thought to a handle, removeable, on the rollbar.
Something to pull on to lift up, or settle down.
Thoughts??????
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank in crash |
Fesenbek, Gary wrote:
>
>
> The experts can help you design a survivable fuel system for your
> aircraft, however there are some easy to do things you can do without
> even turning a wrench on the aircraft.
>
> It's called Nomex, and all military flyers wear it. I still have my
> suits from the service but I think they run about $200 commercially.
>
> Also, don't forget that canopy cutting knife!
>
> Safe landings.
>
> Gary,
> 6A - HS609
>
Be careful-
Nomex will not not burn until it reaches a much higher
temp compared to cotton or polyester.
The down side to this is that the heat will pass through the nomex
and burn your hide.
Nomex is a step in the right direction, but avoiding the situation
all together would be our first choice.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
Paul,
I just completed an RV6A with a tilt up canopy this past year. It is
incredible because theres no bars or anything in my field of view ... its
like sitting on a chair going 200 m.p.h. What a fantastic airplane.
Since I am suffering from builders withdrawl, I ordered an RV8A last friday.
I don't think I'll like the view as much because that plane has a bar that
goes around the canopy right in front of your face. I normally look out my
6A at a 45 degree angle and theres no bar like the 8A. However, I didn't
want to build another 6A because there wouldn't be any variety.
How about it, you guys that have sliding canopies ... Do you get used to
that canopy bar ?
I sort of wonder if the guys that own sliding canopies and don't mind that
bar have ever been in one that doesn't have one.
Happy Building ...
Scott Johnson
RV6A Flying 70TT 345RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wires |
>Also, where would be a good place to mount the starter and battery
>solenoids. My firewall has the constant speed prop box on it. Can I mount
>it on the slope of the box? Do the solenoids need to be mounted vertically.
>I'd appreciate any help.
Battery contactor as close as practical to battery (+) post,
starter contactor at some point on firewall so that wire routed
from starter gets shortest route to contactor. There's a few
tales out there regarding orientation of contactor with respect
to potential g-loading. In a high performance aerobatic machine,
perhaps. They don't worry about it in Mooney's, Pipers, Bonanzas,
etc. I wouldn't worry about it in my own traveling machine.
Analysis sez that contactors can be inadvertently close in
ladings on the order of 6-10 g's
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don <dhduck(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | rv-list subscription |
Dear Sirs:
Please remove me from the rv-list.
Thank you
Don Duck
dhduck(at)flash.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert. S. McAnally" <mcarob(at)melbpc.org.au> |
| Subject: | Frank Justices Instructions |
Listers,
Can anyone supply the current address for F.J's instructions.
Thanks,
Rob McAnally
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Hey folks,
Just a few comments thus far along in the wing kit. Boy, there sure
isn't a lot of spar to pass through the fuse center section! Once I had
the inner ribs in place..and saw just a few inches of spar left to join
to the fuselage...just couldn't help but wonder how it can handle 9 G's
without snapping right at the attach point. I know this is silly..and a
proven design..but just gives me that funny feeling in my gut.
And, the right main spar top side flange was over bent...i.e., more
acute than the left spar top flange. So, the ribs were a VERRRY tight
fit during initial drilling and alignment. The only way to alleviate the
problem was to make several passes with the (wide)hand seamer along the
full length and gently "suggest" it back to where it should be. It looks
fine now..but I wonder if this has happened with anyone elses kit? It
does not look like a shipping damage issue..more like it was just
tweaked a bit too much at Phlogiston.
Brian Denk
framing the wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark D Hiatt" <ottopilot_msn(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spam Fighter... |
Matt, I hope this works for you. But we've received word of several lists
who add "Remove me" addresses to a "Hot" list indicating that the address is
still valid, and thus more valuable to spammers.
Ironically, on the old GEnie network, I get a tremendous amount of spam mail
forwarded from an account that I have not used and that has not been listed
in any directory since 1991! It gets forwarded to the address there that I
do use, which rarely receives spam.
I hope you've turned a corner on this thing, but I'd worry that responding
would only send the message to someone that there really was someone home at
that address.
--
Mark D Hiatt Visit us on the new MSN v2.5!
OttoPilot_MSN@msn.com http://Forums.msn.com/Aviation
Aviation Forum Manager, AvChat Mondays 10pm Eastern
The Microsoft Network
>
>Oddly, the fight seems to be working as I have recieved a number of
>replys back saying that they have removed me and/or added me to a
>Remove list.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 spar stuff |
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
Hey Brian,
If you get that funny feeling in your gut when you look at the RV-8 spar,
then you want to make sure that you never, never, never ever look at the
spar on a Cessna or Piper.
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
CHink11769 @ aol.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wires |
> Where do you run the wires
>from the battery so that the cover can still come off?
Route the battery cables through the firewall at a level just below the top
of the battery box.
> Do the solenoids need to be mounted vertically.
If you mount the solenoid so that the plunger is horizontal, you will pretty
much eliminate the possibility of high G loads overcoming the spring in the
solenoid and thereby closing the solenoid contacts. (It might get a little
exciting if your starter motor kicked in just as you were pulling out of a
loop.)
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Ray <str(at)almaden.ibm.com> |
Brian Denk wrote:
>And, the right main spar top side flange was over bent...i.e., more
>acute than the left spar top flange. So, the ribs were a VERRRY tight
I had the same on my left spar and also used a hand seamer to loosen
the rib fit. The right spar was ok.
Regards,
Sam Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Desiccator question |
| From: | "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)cctrap.com> |
Does anyone know the "proper" way to dry out desiccator plugs used in the
spark plug holes? I know it requires time in the oven, but I was curious
to know ahead of time if there was an accepted temperature & time.
Thanks
Derrick L. Aubuchon
N184DA(at)cctrap.com
RV4 N184DA in finishing stages,,, cowling almost complete. First engine
run should be soon!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Berger <gateway(at)en.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | For Sale wheel pants 2 piece |
---------------------
From: jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil
Date: 97-11-25 08:29:03 EST
Dave,
Can you post on the RV list: RV-6(A) two piece main wheel fairings for
sale. New in box. $150, Includes shipping.
jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil
(315)622-3846
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Nuckolls <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Desiccator question |
>
>Does anyone know the "proper" way to dry out desiccator plugs used in the
>spark plug holes? I know it requires time in the oven, but I was curious
>to know ahead of time if there was an accepted temperature & time.
>
>Thanks
Are they colored desiccators? I forget whether they turn pink
or blue when 'wet' but in any case, I don't think you can
have them in the oven too long. You're just driving out the
moisture absorbed by the internal media and you cannot get
them too dry.
One of the fellows I work with writes the manuals for
packing our targets. We have bags of desiccant inside the
sealed containers. For the BIG bags, he sez 250F for four
hours is suggested. I gotta belive that the itty bitty
plugs will dry out much faster.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wires |
I drilled holes for the wires in the fwd fixed wall of the box and ran the
wires straight fwd. The solenoids are mounted vertically (connections in
horizonal plane)on the engine side of the firewall. I'm not sure about other
mounting orientations.
Phil Rogerson
6AQ60057
Fernandina Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil |
| Subject: | Van's 2 Piece Wheel Fairing for sale |
charset=US-ASCII
FOR SALE:
2 piece main wheel fairings for RV new in box.
List: $180
Will sell for $150 to include shipping.
New Gascolator also: $30(includes bracket)!!
John Balbierer, RV-6, N30JB
jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil
(315) 454-6115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | weight and balance |
This may be a dumb question, but, I need to know. I want to check my -4
out for maximum load in the back seat. If I figure, using the weight
and balance like in the manual, that a 200 lb person can sit in the rear
seat if I don't get down to less than half of my fuel capacity, does
that mean 200 pounds sitting on the rear seat exactly? Or, are they
taking into account the weight of the legs forward of that point? I am
asking because I want to put 200 pounds of dead weight on the rear seat
itself, and I want to make sure it won't put me aft of the cg so I can
be safe, and get an accurate sensation of the flying qualities at that
weight. If the figures are correct, and I can carry a 200 lb weight on
the rear seat, when I figurea 200 lb person back there, is it really
giving me a little safety margin, taking into account the weight of the
legs forward of the seat position? Sorry if this doesn't make much
sense, but I'd like to know. Thanks to any answers. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: List Status! Please Read... |
Matt
Not much activity as yet, but I imagine that's gonna pick up real soon.
Good job, and we thank you.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 spar stuff |
Brian
I dont know how the spars are joined in the center section of the RV-8, but
in the RV-4 kit that I have, the ends of the spars butt together, and are
bolted together with some pretty healthy spar splice plates, and some hefty
AN bolts. With the spars butted together that way, each spar kind of assists
the other, by helping transmit some of the loading, from one to the other. If
the RV-8 spar is spliced together thusly, you shouldnt have too much to
worry about.
As for being stressed to 9 Gs, Im sure Van, and the folks who work there
have done all the proof testing on the design necessary to ascertain that
figure. I might remind you of the fact that when you are using this 9 G
figure in conversation, you are talking about the upper limit of the G
envelope, and that this is a never exceed figure. Besides, when you are
dancing around the skies pulling 6 to 8 Gs, you are already in red, brown,
and blackout territory, and are performing some pretty aggressive aerobatics,
for just about any light airplane. Something an old poop like me will leave
to the younger guys, in all likelihood.
Something you might want to consider, also, is the fact that as your airplane
ages, such as with any machine, if it is not maintained in an *as new*
condition, this high number will begin to gradually drop off. Some time back,
someone asked why the wing would come of an airplane stressed for 9 Gs, at
only 8.75 Gs? There are many answers to this, of which the age of the
machine is most definitely one of them. How many times, over the lifespan of
that airplane, was it exposed to high G stress maneuvers, approaching that
upper limit?
Are your spars flexible? Yes, to a degree, because they have to be, so the
wings can flex. Every time you flex metal, there is some work hardening
taking place. Take a wire coat hanger, expose it to constant flexing, and
sooner or later the metal work hardens to a brittle state and the hanger
breaks. Though this is an extreme example, the same thing is true for a metal
airplane, and its structural members, spars, longerons, ribs, bulkheads, and
in the case of a stressed skin airplane like the RVs, even the skins. This
is one of the reasons I sent a posting titled *SAFETY* to the list recently,
when someone sent in a posting concerning *extra holes* drilled in rib
flanges.
It sounds to me as though you did just about the only thing you could have
done, to correct the overbending condition of your right wing spar top
flange. Your description made it sound as though it was a very minor defect
in the initial spar web forming. It happens. After all, we are all human,
even the folks at Phlogiston. Clearly document what you had to do to the spar
flange in your builders log, and drive on. Such a notation in the log, might
prompt you, or someone else, to keep an eye on this particular area,
throughout the lifetime of the airplane.
Build safe, and fly safe.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
Slave to the Junkyard Dog RV-4 S/No 4239
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wires |
<< Where do you run the wires from the battery so that the cover can still
come off? I must be missing something obvious here.>>
I must have missed something too. I made access by also putting hindges at
the top of the box.
Also, where would be a good place to mount the starter and battery
solenoids. >>
I mounted the starter and battery solenoids on the top of my battery box.
This arrangement means that I hook up the battery to my solenoids, then slip
the box sides in place. I can pull the hindge pins and remove the box sides
without disconecting all the conections. I suppose that it might be handy
someday. So far in my building of RV's I have assembled and disassembled
everything at least ten times it seems.
Gene Francis, getting ready to smoke test the wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
Could anyone show me where I can down load Frank Justice (fuslage info)
hate to be a pain but TU in advance.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Desiccator question |
Derrick L. Aubuchon wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know the "proper" way to dry out desiccator plugs used in the
> spark plug holes? I know it requires time in the oven, but I was curious
> to know ahead of time if there was an accepted temperature & time.
>
> Thanks
>
> Derrick L. Aubuchon
> N184DA(at)cctrap.com
>
> RV4 N184DA in finishing stages,,, cowling almost complete. First engine
> run should be soon!!
>
Derrick
I take my toaster oven out side and put the plugs in over night.
I set it on about 200-250, by morning they are almost back to there
original blue.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oh, the choices |
>
>A
>>Paul:
>I have to take a shot at this one! Check out the width of the cockpit in a
>six with two people side by side. Now add up the width of the RV4 or RV8.
>You have a lot more room in the tandem aircraft.
I've had a demo ride with Ken Scott in the factory 6A. I've also flown to
OSH from the east coast in the back of an RV-4. Given the choice, I would
opt for the back of the 4 every time. You're not sitting with your elbows
overlapping the person next to you and vis is great, except of course right
at 12:00. I'm 5'11" and 180.
Allow me to suggest another approach. Rather than try to force your RV to
be a Skylane, why not join a flying club? If you need to carry hundreds
of pounds of baggage and want to take the wife, family etc., take the
Skylane. That way you can build the RV that you really want and keep it
light simple and CHEAP, the way Van intended. That's what I'm doing
anyway. I have two kids ( at least) to plan for and the
4 of us aren't going to fit in any RV.
John ( banging away on a -4 )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: installation of rudder cables to pedals |
In a message dated 11/26/97 4:58:27 AM, you wrote:
>I am thinking that eventually this will wear thru. Any advice? Can I use a
>longer bolt with some spacers to allow the calbe to be centered in the
>grommet and eliminate the rubbing?
In my case, the rubbing was in the vertical direction. I was unable to solve
this problem, so upon advice of a respected inspection authority, have added
to my annual condition inspection to check this area carefully , and rotate
the grommet ninety degrees. I have noted no grooves yet at 100 Hrs.
is a
tight fit over the cable. If you buy pieces that are as long as the exposed
rudder cable going thru all of the grommets from front to back, you can rid
yourself of the concern and the sound of the cable sawing on the snaplugs.
This is easily retrofitted and the snaplugs are easily replaced, so it's no
big deal either way.
-GV
e air pressure. An oil cooler line burst on a local -4, and the
fella wound up in a plowed field, on his head. The hose did hold for about
100 hrs. No injuries, aircraft repairable.
You can, however, build the hoses yourself from parts available thru the
automotive parts suppliers, and then get them tested. Aeroquip also
manufactures a line of hoses and fittings for these folks. We've been using
those parts (purchased from Summit Racing) here for quite some time with good
results. The hose ends do not have the aircraft style cutter nipple, and as a
result don't tend to push out like that style does. By all means, use the
soft vise jaws as reccomended, and follow the installation directions on the
package. Pressure ratings seem to match the cutter style ends, which are more
than we need by a factor of 10 or more.
Hose price seems to run about $5/ft, and straight ends are around $5 ea.
BTW, we only use firesleeve on the fuel lines, secured with a double wrap of
.041 safety wire.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Plane Takes off without Pilot!! |
Gentlemen:
Forgive the abuse of the cyberspace. I do not derive pleasure from
other people's troubles, but this news article was too much to resist
passing on. If the pilot is a member of the list, you have my sympathies.
This is a reprint from the Associated Press
URBANA, Ohio - A small aircraft took off without its pilot yesterday and flew
for nearly two hours before crashing in a field.
Paul A. Sirks of Dayton had landed the single engine plane at Urbana's
Grimes Field airport because of mechanical problems, said police officer Mike
Hughes.
The plane's engine stalled on a taxiway and Skirks got out to restart it
by hand-turning the propellor. Once the engine started, the empty plane
taxied away without Sirks, nearly hitting another aircraft and a hanger
before becoming airborne.
The plane circled the area for about five minutes, headed north-east,
and went down about 90 miles away, some 50 miles north-east of Columbus.
No charges had been filed against Sirks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | John Hovan Web Pages Online! |
Listers-
You may now access the John Hovan web pages from the Matronics web server.
Everything has been moved over. Contact John at "hovan(at)flash.net" for
more information or suggestions.
The new URL for the Hovan Web pages is:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan
Welcome back, John!
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
[Warning - I don't know what I'm talking about. Don't even have PPL, first
solo was last week. Not only that, but I'm a computer programmer :-]
As long as I'm designing an airplane I'm never going to build (RV-6AQB), I
thought I might as well make it all weather :-)
I'm assuming that such a beast is going to be liquid cooled, which means a
radiator.
Is there some reason that you couldn't run the coolant through the leading
edge of the wings, thus providing a really cheap anti-ice capability as
well?
I can think of potential disadvantages, but don't know enough to evaluate
them:
* Weight - depends on diameter and length of coolant tubing, but it
seems that radiators have fairly skinny tubes.
* Won't work when cold - perhaps when it is cold enough that ice is a
problem, the coolant thermostat valve will remain closed.
* Hot wing will disrupt airflow - would heating air at the wing reduce
lift, especially on a hot day? This would not be good :-)
* Heated wing might just change the temp of icing - perhaps icing will
occur at a lower temperature, cold enough to counteract the wing heat
* Not enough heat to melt ice on two large metal wings - I can imagine
this working to defrost the leading edge, but perhaps ice would still form
on other surfaces.
Potential advantages of a turbocharged diesel with wing cooling:
* No carb ice - diesels work on direct injection
* Reduced wing icing problems
* No shock cooling - liquid cooling maintains constant engine temp
* Smoother aerodynamics - no big openings required for cooling air
(although perhaps small openings would be needed)
* Less overheating while waiting in line on the ground
Is this a well known bad idea? Is someone already doing this? Or is it
just that there are not very many liquid cooled airplanes?
Thanks for your friendly, helpful suggestions :-)
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)nosc.mil>
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 1997 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: High Temps
>
> Nobody told you how far away that horizon is. Been hearing about new
diesel
>aircraft engines for years, always "just over the horizon", but never
>getting to market. It will be great if it happens and if it lives up to
>expectations, but I wouldnt hold my breath while waiting.
>
>Mike Wills
>RV-4 (wings done!, saving pennies for fuse)
>willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>>
>>There is a possible fix for potential danger from the wet wing fuel cells
>>just
>>over the horizon. There is a project right now under way to market a V-4
>>TurboDiesel(200HP) . This engine runs on Jet-A, which is alot less
volatile
>>than Avgas or autofuel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Navaid Installation? |
I know this has been discussed before, but I would like some sort of
feedback from RV-6/A operators of the Navaid, if possible: i.e. Where
did you install the servo and how has it worked out for you?
Thank you,
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, installing engine, instruments etc.
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Trimming inboard end of flap |
Recently there was a discussion on the list about trimming the inboard
end of the flap. I've just finished my RV-6 flaps and the fit up to the
fuselage with very good results and thought I'd pass on what I learned.
First, during the wing construction I rivited up the bottom skin of the
flap with its ribs except for the inboard one which I only drilled. The
spar was drilled to the ribs and the bottom skin with the hinge but only
clecoed on. Make sure that the spar is tight against the ribs when you
drill it the the bottom skin or later you could induce a twist into the
assembly.
Using I think Frank Justices method of installing and aligning the
ailerons and flap I positioned the wings vertically with the nose down.
The wing top skins were riveted on but the bottoms were still only
clecoed. Following his proceedure I aligned and installed the aileron
hinges and flap hinges with the aileron and bottom flap assembly in
place (his proceedure uses the tooling holes for alignment and no wing
profile). The top flap skin trailing end was aligned with the aileron
trailing edge and a couple of alignment holes were drilled to locate it
to the bottom flap assembly. The inboard linkage attachment peices were
not yet installed. At this point I set the incompleted flaps aside and
proceeded to finish the wings and build the fuselage.
(Fast forward 2 years)
After getting the fuselage on the gear and the wings installed I was now
ready to complete the flaps. I drilled the top skin to the bottom
assembly. With the top skin off I put the bottom flap assembly onto the
wing. This allowed me to mark edge of the fuselage onto the bottom
skin. THIS IS NOT FOR CUTTING, It is for locating the inboard flap
linkage plate.
Next, I used poster board to make a template that when set on top of the
inboard two flap ribs would reach from the spar to the trailing edge of
the inboard rib and would follow the fuselage contour. This is easy to
do with siccors using trial and error. This was taped into place as if
it were the top skin. Take the flap off of the wing and set it on a
bench, position the top skin and cleco into place with the template
still in place. A few clecos can actually be pushed through the
template. Flip it over and trace the edge of the template onto the
bottom side of the top skin. Remove the top skin, extend the trim line
to the front and rear. Cut along the line. At approximately 1/2" from
the trailing edge, angle the cut off to the inboard edge. This area
will be final trimmed on the fuselage. After filing the edge, cleco the
top flap skin on and reinstall onto the wing. Pivot it up and trim the
last 1/2" with a rat tail and small striaght file. You should now have
a perfect fitting top flap skin to fuselage intersection. Please
remember that the bottom skin DOES NOT GET TRIMMED.
With the flaps off the wing and the top skin off the inboard brackets
can be made. The fuselage line on the bottom skin will be used to
position the inboard linkage attachment plate. This plate should be at
1/8" away from the fuselage.
I hope this is of some help.
Frank Smidler
smidler(at)dcwi.com
RV-6, working on finishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Is the list sick? |
Email volume on the list seems to be down significantly since the
infrastructure upgrade. Is it just my imagination, or the holidays, or
????
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | RVation Bookstore catalogs |
For all of you who have requested RVation Bookstore catalogs; they are
now in the mail and you should be receiving them shortly.
For those who have yet to ask, more are here and ready to mail. E-mail
your postal address, and I will be glad to send one.
Regarding our web site, It's almost done and should be up early next
week. Look it up then at http://www.RV-Bookstore.com
To anybody who has an RV related website: I would like to exchange web
links with you. I'll link to you, if you link to me. I can supply a .jpg
or .gif logo, or you can just put in a text link. Please write we at the
following address winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Thanks,
Andy Gold
RVation Bookstore
Winterland Publications
RV6-A N-5060 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oh, the choices |
> I have to take a shot at this one! Check out the width of the cockpit in a
> six with two people side by side. Now add up the width of the RV4 or RV8.
> You have a lot more room in the tandem aircraft
For your shoulders, yes. But can you say "baggage?" Only if you're building
a six or an eight. I can't realistically imagine sharing chart-holding and
nav duties with a GIB, either. Side by side would be my preference for
cockpit resource management. I suppose it all depends on what you want to do
with these wonderful machines. For just plain ol' flyin' around, an
ultralight would probably be more mission-capable (can't wait for the flack
on that- maybe we could just let that statement slide on by in the interest
of controlling archive-bloat!)
Now, would someone please answer last night's very good question about
battery cable routing and bat. box removability? It comes at the perfect for
me, too.
Bill Boyd RV-6A
systems, plumbing, paint & fly next spring!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Installation? |
HI Ron
I have a Navaid in my RV-6 and I really like it, it works
great tied into my Flybuddy GPS.
I installed it pretty much to the drawing that Navaid sent
with it for a RV-6. The only difference I did wa not not
connect to the bottom of the copilots control stick because
it makes to great of a angle for the push pull rod when moving the
control stick forward and back. I run the Navaid push pull rod
across to the bottom of the pilots control stick and it works
great.
Some guys are mounting the servo in the wing and also getting
good results
Ronald Vandervort wrote:
>
>
> I know this has been discussed before, but I would like some sort of
> feedback from RV-6/A operators of the Navaid, if possible: i.e. Where
> did you install the servo and how has it worked out for you?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, installing engine, instruments etc.
> Seattle area
>
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator mini-ribs |
Hi,
I just ordered my wing kit Monday. It looks like I'll have the empennage
kit finished a month before the wing kit gets here. That means I'll have
some extra time to improve/modify.
I'm putting the stiffeners in my elevators. I was leafing through the 16
YEARS OF THE RVator yesterday. I noticed a suggestion about fabricating
some mini-ribs for the elevators. I was wondering if anyone on the list
(or someone you know) has installed the mini-ribs (or other mods) into
their elevators.
Are they worth the effort?
What did you do (or would do different) to make sure the elevators came
out straight?
Any problems or regrets about installing them?
Happy Thanksgiving!
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6a electri8 Flaps |
Ken and Others, We are continuing to ship flap replacement motors to people
on the list. One problem is that not everyone is prompt in returning their
old motor. If you delay returning it when you get your replacement motor,
then we are delayed in having the housing replaced and rebuilt, which
delays getting it out to the next person. All in all, there is a steady
flow and it is only a matter of time until everyone has their replacement.
When we think everyone has been serviced, we will put a note on the list
and in the RVator which should pick up those who were lost at some point.
Keep in mind that there has not been an incident due to breakage of this
part. So keep on flying and eventually (hopefully within one year) all of
the old motors in the field will be replaced.
For those not familiar with this discussion, please do not call Van's
asking for clarification. This discussion is about the flap motor in the
electric flap installation. It only involves the motors in the 6 and 6A and
only involves those who drilled a mounting hole in the motor case
perpendicular to the hole provided (as instructed in the assembly
instructions). All motors shipped in the last 6 months are of the new style
and do not require rework. Bill
>
>
>Anyone know about the "fix---as in retrofit" for the RV6A
>electric flap?
>
>Have had a request in for some months now but ain't
>heard nothing.
>
>
>
>I asked the same question about a month ago. Several folks responded saying
they'd received theirs,
>I guess we must be way down on the list.
>
>Bill Benedict....any comment?
>
>Ken
>
>RV6A Flying
Bill
RV-4-180 flying. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Is the list sick? |
If this gets through, then I'd say it at least has the sniffles. I posted a
reply two days ago and haven't seen it yet. Maybe others have posted and they
haven't gotten through either. Waiting to see.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Email volume on the list seems to be down significantly since the
infrastructure upgrade. Is it just my imagination, or the holidays, or
????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is the list sick? |
I sent a reply out to Matt's announcement that it was up, and I never
saw my post either.
I just finished drilling my HS 810 and 814 to the HS front spar, and it
looks like the fuselage attach holes on the 810 will miss the min 2D
edge distance by 1/32". I haven't drilled these holes yet, but if I draw
a line between the holes on either side, then measure from the line to
the edge, it'll be short. There is no leeway on the 810, so I can't
drill them off center. Ken at Van's told me not to worry about it, but
after hanging up with him I wondered if I had explained the situation
correctly. Another builder who has done several RV-6's told me that edge
distance isn't as important with bolts as it is with rivets. Anyone have
any opinions on this?
I'm also looking for new builders who might be interested in a small
email list for all those little questions, or just to relate day to day
building experiences. Email me if your interested.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 Emp
moejoe03(at)erols.com
les williams wrote:
>
>
> If this gets through, then I'd say it at least has the sniffles. I posted a
> reply two days ago and haven't seen it yet. Maybe others have posted and they
> haven't gotten through either. Waiting to see.
>
> Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
> Email volume on the list seems to be down significantly since the
> infrastructure upgrade. Is it just my imagination, or the holidays, or
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Free RV photos to good home |
Hi all!
Ed Anderson was kind enough to mail me his very nice engine bay photos.
He has built an RV-6A with a Mazda 13B. It appears to be a first rate
installation. I have scanned the photos (15 in all) and sent his photos
back. Is anyone with an RV related web site willing to put these photos
on their site? They come with 3 typewritten pages explaining the photos.
They have all their shots and come with a free flea collar. :-)
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 making elevator stiffeners on Thanksgiving. I'm thankful I have an
understanding girlfriend.
Boca Raton, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wires |
the terminals need to be horizontal... the solenoids (relays) need to be
veritcal.
they can be mounted anywhere on the firewall. Suggest you buy tony Bingalis
book from EAA "Firewall Forward"
the Battery leads should be brought straight forward from the battery to the
firewall. Be sure to use grommet material as you go throught the firewall.
Just had mine inspected and approved for flight test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hello? Is This Thing On?? |
510-606-1001)
>
>Hello Listers!
>
>Matronics is back online!
>Matt Dralle
>RV and Zenith List Admin...
Mat:
Aside from about three messages the day of your above edited message,I have
had no Rv list email.
Questions:
- Am I alone in this situation?.
- Did the Paranoid Club of North America (I'm a fully invested member)
secretly have my name deleted?.
- Are you swamped with smart assed emails like this one yet?.
- how I get back on (without the "P.C.N.A."finding out)?.
- Could, should, or would you email a message to the list for all the
lost lonly souls ( I assume the "P.C.N.A" have us on a list of some
sort ) reguarding what to do?.
Good humor intended;
Yuor efforts are appreciated.
jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Hello? Is This Thing On?? |
510-606-1001)
Hello Listers!
Matronics is back online! The cutover to the dedicated Internet connection
appears to be successful at this point. I have reenabled the RV-List and
Zenith-List email lists as of 7:30pm 11/22 and will start forwarding all of the
queued posts shortly. I will be keeping a close eye on the operation of
everything for a few days and will post updates as necessary.
Welcome back!
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin...
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.H.Mole -Richard Mole" <R.H.Mole(at)open.ac.uk> |
| Subject: | Book by Bruce Carmichael |
Sport Aviation carried an article on CFD for the RV-6 in April 1997.
On page 51, the article mentioned the availability of the book
'Personal Aircraft Drag Reduction' by Bruce Carmichael.
I would very much like to see this book.
Does anyone know where to get it and how much it is? EAA didn't seem to know
anything about it.
Has anyone read it and if so would they recommend it?
Richard Mole
R.H.Mole(at)open.ac.uk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Dimple or Machine Countersink on HS? |
On my RV-4, I used machine countersinking on the H.Stabilizer. My RV-8 manual
says it is preferable to use dimpling. I tend to want to stay with what I did
before, the results were so good. What are you guys out there using?
Regards,
Von Alexander
RV-8 #80544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Barnes <skytop(at)starnetinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing conduit installation |
Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> Greetings friends,
>
> I just received some of the corrugated plastic conduit from Van's for
> routing the tip and landing light wiring through my -8 wings. Does the
> conduit need to be anchored (glued???) into each rib so it doesn't shift
> around during flight? The holes are just large enough to allow the
> tubing to fit through..but the variation in the outer diameter of the
> tubing, due to the corrugations, cause the tubing to move around a bit.
> Would chafing be a problem if not anchored into each rib? I've thought
> of using thin wall PVC, but there's just something lacking in the
> aesthetics department there! Heck, I used the stuff for my garden
> irrigation system fer cryin out loud...:)
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Brian Denk
> -8 #379
> riveting ribs to spars
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
I had the same concern when I did mine. I put a bit of pro-seal on some
of the easy to reach rib pass-throughs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Is the list working? |
I've only gotten 5 or 6 pieces of mail from the list in a week. Is it me or
is it the list? Somebody e-mail me direct.
Kyle Boatright
Kboatri144(at)AOL.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | List Problems... |
Hi Everyone,
Yes, there have been a few 'glitches' with the new connection! Please
bare with me as I try to get this resolved. The primary problem has been
trying to keep the connection up and working reliably. I have made a
couple of significant changes that just might make things run smoother...
I'm sure sorry this has been such a pain, everyone. It says right here
in the manual that it was suppose to go very smoothly!
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anthony Self" <CHEVY_TRUCK(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Grass runways??? |
I have a piece of land that is 735 ft. by 735 ft. This will yield a grass
strip of anywhere from 700 ft. to over 1000 ft. on the diagonal. I haven't
started an RV yet, but will soon. The thing I would like to know, is of you
that are flying a RV6 or 6A, how do they handle on a grass strip? I was
thinking I would probably build the 6A, but if there is a very distinct
advantage to the 6 and grass strips, maybe I will change my mind. I don't care
about all the macho taildragger hype, although, I admit they do have a nice
stance. I want honest opinions about the two versions of aircraft and how they
handle grass strips? I'm not concerned with image or traditions or anything
like that, just performance. Also, to further explain my reasons for advice: I
have never flown a taildragger or landed on a grass strip, as I am still in
flight school and only have had Cessna/airport time. I would especially like
to hear from you guys who have your own strip at home, as I plan to do.
Thanks for the advice.
Anthony K. Self
CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: List Problems... |
It says right here in the manual that it was suppose to go very
smoothly!
Boy, where have I seen that before! Good luck with your work. I
don't envy you one bit.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Hinge Dimensions |
Is there any info on the dimensions to set the rudder hinge rod ends? Due to
the different VS hinge lengths I would assume they vary also. Or do you just
line them up and try them until they work?
Rich Zeidman RV6A S/N 25224
finishing up empinage kit- Waiting for wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
I want to ask anybody if they have any suggestions for getting some decent
cabin heat into a 6A. I used Van';s heat muff and firewall valve, but very
little heat gets into the cabin. It is mounted crossways on the crossover
exhaust. Wouldn';t fit anywhere else on the exhaust pipes. Too many curves.
Help! Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Samuel Steele <steele(at)loyno.edu> |
Dear RV'ers!
I am the proud owner-builder of an RV-4 and want to be included on your
mailing list. MY thanks!
Sam Steele e-mail: steele(at)beta.loyno.edu
Physics Dept. Machinist
Loyola Univ. N.O.
(504) 865-3646
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
Grass Strip? I don't have experience flying the two off grass strips,
but Van lives on his grass strip and both are flown regularly from there.
When the list gets up again, Scot McDaniels would have the experience to
inform you with. He works there and has done that.
Cecil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
Hi Anthony,
My -4 handles grass just fine. The 1000 feet would really be pushing
it unless your had a straight shot with no obstacles, no tail wind, and
dry grass. Have fun. Michael
I'm still trying to get consistent with 500 feet of pavement.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
>
>I have a piece of land that is 735 ft. by 735 ft. This will yield a grass
>strip of anywhere from 700 ft. to over 1000 ft. on the diagonal.
I think that you should buy the farm next door, Under optimum conditions
this might work but not every time, Sorry to burst your bubble but 1200 to
1500 should be considered minimum.
292 hours in an RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | elevator trim cable |
Listers
When I mounted and balanced the elevator on my -4, the elevator moved
up and down very smooth, and the balance was right on the money.
When the trim cable was added it added a lot of drag to the elevator
and it would not return to it's neutral position on it's own.
Is this normal? I'm thinking now I should have added electric trim.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Lervold <RLervold(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | What sort of documentation? |
Just starting an RV-8 kit. I know a "builder's log" and accompanying photos
will be required for certification. Can anyone fill me in on exactly what
is required? After a quick search of the FAA and EAA web sites I can't find
anything.
Randy Lervold
RV-8 emp part done, wings on order
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | -8 wingwalk reinforcements |
g'day folks,
The .025 sheet that is used to reinforce the wing walk area...is it
supposed to be cut from one of the 10"x48" sheets of Alclad? The plans
call for a piece that is 9"x26", I think. I don't want to cut into
something that I'll need later. I noticed there is no specific part
numer called out here..so, I guess it has to be cut from stock material.
Brian Denk
fitting the wing skins
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)PRODIGY.COM (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
My wife doesn't like to fly. She is inventive to the point of genius
at finding excuses not to climb into anything smaller than a 747.
She sees no beauty or romance in airplanes.
This weekend she put on her oldest clothes and cheerfully bucked
rivets, cleaned tools, mixed "black death" and other wise partnered
on rivetting a beautifully crafted fuel tank.
We've been married for 32 years, and I've sometimes wondered if this
marriage would last.
I now think that it will.
George Kilishek
#80006 fuel tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Installing flaps |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
RV-4 builders,
While installing my flaps on the airplane I ran into a problem. The
aluminum plate on the inboard end of each flap scrapes the side of the
fuselage when traveling to the up position. I have measured everything I
can think of, flap width, aileron to flap gap, etc., and I can't find any
deviation from the plans dimensions. Has anyone else run into this
problem? If so, how did you correct it?
Thanks,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 complete airframe now! Engine next.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Filling fiberglass seams |
OK , The seams on my fiberglass tips are not as nice as I had hoped and
some filling will be required, especially the rudder bottom. My composit
experience is with fiberglass & bondo on cars. What is the best method of
filling the gap between the fiberglass & metal? A thin strip of light
weight fiberglass? Bondo? Micro baloons (how are they used, mixed with
epoxy resin?)? Some other method?
TIA
Fly Safe
Scott A. Jordan
-8 #331
N733JJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | I made the decision, I ordered the second airplane kit ... |
Suffering severe withdrawls from building airplanes, I surveyed the market
for another airplane kit. After staring at the thunder mustang, tigress,
and lancair, I came to the same conculusion I came to 2 years ago. You
can't beat the value VAN gives with his airplane kits. Therefore, I placed
my order for the RV8A. I guess that numbers me amongst the elite repeat
RV-offenders group ( after all, how could I pass up VANS discount for
repeat builders ?) . I can't wait to start riveting again ...
Scott Johnson
rvgasj(at)mcs.com
RV6A 70 HRS TT 345RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
I live 5 miles from Van's home/prototype shop which is on of all things, a
well maintained grass strip. I have flown out of the strip in the prototype
RV 6A and was nothing but impressed by the grass field capabilities. The
field is in excellent shape and relatively smooth, but grass nonetheless.
I, too, have not decided between a 6 or a 6A, but am building the empennage
for one of them. You don't have to decide until the fuselage....
I recently finished my private pilot as well and have flown only Cessnas
other than my demo flight in the 6A. I cannot wait to rip around in my own
RV in a few years. It seems like forever, but as they say at Van's; "You
won't finish an RV unless you start one..."
Jon Elford - Riveting skins on horiz. stab.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Woodsboat(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
Anthony,
I have a 1900' grass strip in WV, that I fly my 160 hp. RV-4 from. I use
about
400' on take off and approx. 900' to 1200' on landing. I have made landings
that
have used 1700' of the field,due to 10 knot tail wind and trees that make it
hard
to land from the other direction. I have been flying final at 65 mph. and
touching
down at 60 mph. with full flaps.
I don't want to dampen your thoughts or dreams,but I hope that purchasing
your neighbor's property is a possibilty.
To operate from my 1900' requires you to be where you belong and slowed
to touchdown speed. On the positive side if you must go around the RV climbs
out like a homesick angel. Good luck on whatever you decide.
Pat Carr
Backyard Bullet,
1997,Oshkosh Kitbuilt
Champion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Lervold <RLervold(at)compuserve.com> |
I'm starting into my RV-8 kit and this is my first post to the RV List. I
have however been "lurking" for some time now gleaning all sorts of
valuable information. Based on what I've read here I made the decision to
go the Sherwin Williams industrial wash primer route. So I bought some and
then bought a small "detail" gun from Sears. Here come the questions;
1) What is the best solvent to use for cleanup? I've tried acetone and it
seems to congeal the remaing primer mix... yikes!
2) Any hints/techniques for making the setup and cleanup routine easier and
faster?
3) Geez, if I follow Van's instructions I'm going to be priming about 300
small batches. Has anyone just gone ahead and deburred the edges and primed
a whole kit's worth of parts?
Fledgling RV-8 builder,
Randy Lervold
starting on emp kit
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: installation of rudder cables to pedals |
>
>After connecting the cables to the pedals I noticed that it is not a straight
>shot for the cable from the last grommet to the connection on the pedal. The
>cable angles in toward the pedal. This causes the cable to rub against the
>side of the grommet.
>I am thinking that eventually this will wear thru. Any advice? Can I use a
>longer bolt with some spacers to allow the calbe to be centered in the
>grommet and eliminate the rubbing?
>
>I am not quite at this point yet but have looked at the problem you
mention. IMHO it seems to me that there isn't much movement,2-3in, so it
would take a long time to wear through the gromets. If it did start to wear
you could rotate the grommet a little. It would not be a problem to replace
the grommet once it became unusable. The longer bolt may chaff against the
fuse which would be worse than the original problem.
>
>
>
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce & Paulette Smith" <bpsmith(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | engine options, etc. |
I'm new to this site, and am standing at the edge of the abyss, pondering the task
of building an RV-8. One friend who quit after building a tail says he has
a new found respect for anyone who builds his own airplane. Particularly I'm
very interested in the Harmon Rocket. So where can I get info on a Harmon Rocket?
Is it simply (right!) an RV with a bigger engine, or are there significant
other mods involved? Also, has anyone out there looked at the new DynaCam
engine for installation in an RV? If you don't know about it, check out DynaCam.com.
To the person who wants to build an RV and operate out of a 700 foot grass strip,
I can only say I hope you're a better pilot than I. To fly safe, all the time,
means leaving yourself an out - or several - to handle varying situations
which will sneak up and bite eventually. Grass is very forgiving, especially
to a novice pilot. But 700 feet leaves you no options for aborts, go arounds,
wind gusts, and a zillion other variables that you must allow for to be consistently
safe. My 2 cents.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
Anthony Self wrote:
>
>
> I have a piece of land that is 735 ft. by 735 ft. This will yield a grass
> strip of anywhere from 700 ft. to over 1000 ft. on the diagonal. I haven't
> started an RV yet, but will soon. The thing I would like to know, is of you
> that are flying a RV6 or 6A, how do they handle on a grass strip? I was
> thinking I would probably build the 6A, but if there is a very distinct
> advantage to the 6 and grass strips, maybe I will change my mind. I don't care
> about all the macho taildragger hype, although, I admit they do have a nice
> stance. I want honest opinions about the two versions of aircraft and how they
> handle grass strips? I'm not concerned with image or traditions or anything
> like that, just performance. Also, to further explain my reasons for advice:
I
> have never flown a taildragger or landed on a grass strip, as I am still in
> flight school and only have had Cessna/airport time. I would especially like
> to hear from you guys who have your own strip at home, as I plan to do.
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> Anthony K. Self
> CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
>
>
You mean they make runways out of something other than grass? Where have
I been??
Scott
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
<<
I have a piece of land that is 735 ft. by 735 ft. This will yield a grass
strip of anywhere from 700 ft. to over 1000 ft. on the diagonal. I haven't
started an RV yet, but will soon. The thing I would like to know, is of you
that are flying a RV6 or 6A, how do they handle on a grass strip? I was
thinking I would probably build the 6A, but if there is a very distinct
advantage to the 6 and grass strips, maybe I will change my mind. I don't
care
about all the macho taildragger hype, although, I admit they do have a nice
stance. I want honest opinions about the two versions of aircraft and how
they
handle grass strips? I'm not concerned with image or traditions or anything
like that, just performance. Also, to further explain my reasons for advice:
I
have never flown a taildragger or landed on a grass strip, as I am still in
flight school and only have had Cessna/airport time. I would especially like
to hear from you guys who have your own strip at home, as I plan to do.
Thanks for the advice.
Anthony K. Self
CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
>>
Anthony,
I have a strip in my back yard, but it is 2600' long. I had an RV-4 and a
friend had his RV-6A based here. Both were 150 hp versions and they both
performed great off of the grass strip. I have landed my RV-4 on a 700'
ultralight field. Elevation was 200' MSL. I only used about 2/3 of the
runway. You should be proficient at your short-field landings and not have
any obstacles at either end. Good luck and you won't go wrong with either
choice.
Regards,
Louis Smith
lousmith(at)aol.com
RV-4 N102LS sold
RV-8 N801RV waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
Typically, taildraggers fair a bit better on grass than trikes, but if you
keep it mowed and the field is reasonably smooth you won't have a problem
with a nosewheel. You'll find grass much more forgiving in either
configuration and, after living on grass for awhile, may really prefer it to
the hard stuff!
Loren
RV-wanna-be
-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Self <CHEVY_TRUCK(at)classic.msn.com>
Date: Friday, November 28, 1997 3:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: Grass runways???
>
>I have a piece of land that is 735 ft. by 735 ft. This will yield a grass
>strip of anywhere from 700 ft. to over 1000 ft. on the diagonal. I haven't
>started an RV yet, but will soon. The thing I would like to know, is of you
>that are flying a RV6 or 6A, how do they handle on a grass strip? I was
>thinking I would probably build the 6A, but if there is a very distinct
>advantage to the 6 and grass strips, maybe I will change my mind. I don't
care
>about all the macho taildragger hype, although, I admit they do have a nice
>stance. I want honest opinions about the two versions of aircraft and how
they
>handle grass strips? I'm not concerned with image or traditions or
anything
>like that, just performance. Also, to further explain my reasons for
advice: I
>have never flown a taildragger or landed on a grass strip, as I am still in
>flight school and only have had Cessna/airport time. I would especially
like
>to hear from you guys who have your own strip at home, as I plan to do.
>Thanks for the advice.
>
>Anthony K. Self
>CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
> I have a piece of land that is 735 ft. by 735 ft. This will yield a grass
> strip of anywhere from 700 ft. to over 1000 ft. on the diagonal. I haven't
> started an RV yet, but will soon. The thing I would like to know, is of you
> that are flying a RV6 or 6A, how do they handle on a grass strip? I was
> thinking I would probably build the 6A, but if there is a very distinct
> advantage to the 6 and grass strips, maybe I will change my mind. I don't care
> about all the macho taildragger hype, although, I admit they do have a nice
> stance. I want honest opinions about the two versions of aircraft and how they
> handle grass strips? I'm not concerned with image or traditions or anything
> like that, just performance. Also, to further explain my reasons for advice:
I
> have never flown a taildragger or landed on a grass strip, as I am still in
> flight school and only have had Cessna/airport time. I would especially like
> to hear from you guys who have your own strip at home, as I plan to do.
> Thanks for the advice.
Anthony --
Before you even *think* about this, you *must* call Van's and tell them
what you're considering. 1000 foot airstrip? Yikes! Yes, I know. The
book says it'll take off in 600 feet. Talk to Van's. But if you look
around at all the airports in your area, you'll find the shortest have
runways no less than about 2300 feet. Any chance you can buy more land
or work out a deal with a neighbor to make the runway longer?
As for -6 vs. -6A -- I'm building a -6A, but I'll operate mostly off paved
runways, and the grass strips I use are more than twice as long as your
1000 feet. If I were going to do most of my flying off grass, I'd go
with a taildragger.
I've watched airplanes at grass strips, and I would be very careful with
a tricycle gear airplane. The runway itself is usually okay, but when
you taxi around, you tend to run into bumps and such, and that prop
comes *awfully* close to the grass. At least one of the reasons grass
strip pilots prefer taildraggers is due to the extra prop clearance you
get. I enjoy grass strips in Cessna 152s & 172s, but you do need to be
careful.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Malott" <drmalott(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
>From owner-rv-list(at)roxy.matronics.com Fri Nov 28 13:07:02 1997
>Received: from roxy.matronics.com [207.171.206.243]
> by mole with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #2)
>Received: (from daemon@localhost)
(PST)
>Errors-To: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Posted-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:50:42 -0800 (PST)
>Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 12:50:42 -0800 (PST)
>Date: Fri, 28 Nov 97 20:44:31 UT
>From: "Anthony Self" <CHEVY_TRUCK(at)classic.msn.com>
>Message-Id:
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Grass runways???
>Sender: owner-rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>I have a piece of land that is 735 ft. by 735 ft. This will yield a
grass
>strip of anywhere from 700 ft. to over 1000 ft. on the diagonal. I
haven't
>started an RV yet, but will soon. The thing I would like to know, is of
you
>that are flying a RV6 or 6A, how do they handle on a grass strip? I was
>thinking I would probably build the 6A, but if there is a very distinct
>advantage to the 6 and grass strips, maybe I will change my mind. I
don't care
>about all the macho taildragger hype, although, I admit they do have a
nice
>stance. I want honest opinions about the two versions of aircraft and
how they
>handle grass strips? I'm not concerned with image or traditions or
anything
>like that, just performance. Also, to further explain my reasons for
advice: I
>have never flown a taildragger or landed on a grass strip, as I am
still in
>flight school and only have had Cessna/airport time. I would especially
like
>to hear from you guys who have your own strip at home, as I plan to do.
>Thanks for the advice.
>
>Anthony K. Self
>CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
>
>Anthony
I have a 1800 ft grass strip with a couple of dips and small knolls.
For ten years I flew a 177B in and out of this strip. I built a RV6
and fly it off this same strip but it is not as easy to handle as the
Cardinal. On take off the dip in the strip will sometimes throw you
off before you are ready to fly and likewise on landing you need to
pick your spot were you will touch down.
A smooth,flat,reasonable length grass strip is no harder to land or
take off on than a paved strip. You are talking about a 1000 ft strip
with hopefully clear approaches. The next time you go flying at the
airport find out were the 1000 ft mark is and try and operate in that
length. My advice is build the plane of your choice, but test fly it
from a airport and contine to fly from the airport until you are
confindent in your abilities, then do some work at grass strips of the
same length as the airport. After that start finding other strips that
are shorter and narrower. Grass strips are fun but !!! Also if you want
flight insurance on your aircraft check with your insurance Co.
about grass strips.
Happy flying and building.
David Malott
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
A 1000ft. runway is pretty short. Better have your flying skills sharp. No
room for boo-boos. Every landing will be an exercise of discipline. I can't
be too objective about whether to build a taildragger or not since all my
favorite airplanes have tailwheels. Flying a taildragger requires a little
more training and constant attention when the wheels are rolling, but I enjoy
the experience so much more than when I fly trigear planes. I don't have an
RV yet, but I sure enjoy flying a J-3 Cub from a grass strip. There are
several 172's for rent locally, but I usually drive 30 miles for the
tailwheel and grass experience. Good luck.
TBRV
RV-8 builder wannabe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
Jim, My -4 has the crossovers with the heat muff on the "passenger" side
pipe, lower end before the piece that exits the lower cowling. It just
did squeeze in there, but it will blow you out with good hot air. It is
the one with two outlets.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim cable |
Craig,
This is the way my -4 is, and I have found no ill affects caused by
this. I have only done flutter testing to 200 so far, so maybe I
haven't pushed it far enough to cause a problem, yet. Spinning was
uneventful, just fast. I'll be adding 200 pounds to the back seat
tomorrow to check the flying characteristics before I add a passenger.
I figured I can carry a 200 pound passenger all the way to dry tanks and
not push the aft cg limit too far. The gross will be closer to 1600
lbs, though. 33 hours, so far.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator trim cable |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Craig,
As long as you follow the procedures in the manual for balancing
you will be fine. The balancing is to prevent flutter of the mass of the
elevator. The friction of the cable doesn't seem to have any ill effects
(as proven by many hundreds of RV's flying with manual trim). Once
everything is connected to the stick you wont be able to feel the cable
stiffness.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What sort of documentation? |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Check with the local DAR or FAA airworthiness inspector that you will use
for your certification to be sure you know what THEY want.
It some times varies from one to another.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -8 wingwalk reinforcements |
Brian,
If I remember correctly, they are cut from the .025X10X48 pieces. I don't
know what the excess is used for though. I finished my wings and still
have them.
>
>g'day folks,
>
>The .025 sheet that is used to reinforce the wing walk area...is it
>supposed to be cut from one of the 10"x48" sheets of Alclad? The plans
>call for a piece that is 9"x26", I think. I don't want to cut into
>something that I'll need later. I noticed there is no specific part
>numer called out here..so, I guess it has to be cut from stock material.
>
>Brian Denk
>fitting the wing skins
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
On 11/29/97 11:06:36 you wrote:
>
>
>Grass Strip? I don't have experience flying the two off grass strips,
>but Van lives on his grass strip and both are flown regularly from there.
> When the list gets up again, Scot McDaniels would have the experience to
>inform you with. He works there and has done that.
>
>Cecil
>
>
Actually grass strips are easier to land on than pavement. And if it is a
smooth grass strip it is much easier on tires.
My Dad and I had a 1000ft. grass strip on his land that we used for years.
I would not want to have any shorter for safety reasons. Yes a RV- will
get in and out shorter than that, but you would have to do it perfect
every time and in real life that is not going to happen.
When Van first started out he had a 600ft grass strip on his folks
farm that he used to fly his RV-3 in and out of but it was clear and
flat on both ends. I landed there once in about 1972 in another
homebuilt I had,(Geez, writing that makes me sound old)it was doable
but to short for comfort.
I would respectfully say that if the orignal poster wants to use his
700ft for a airstrip he should probably build another type of airplane
IMHO
Jerry Springer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Miller, Jr." <rgmiller(at)sprintmail.com> |
I have a broken THOR angle drill. Any suggestions for repairs or parts?
Robert Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
<< Anybody have any suggestions for getting some decent
cabin heat into a 6A? >>
Place pickup 2" diameter flanges as low as possible on the rear baffles so
the air is already slightly warmed before it gets to the muff.
Buy some long 1/4" OD stainless steel springs from McMaster-Carr and wrap
them helically around the pipe in the area to be covered by the muff.
Make sure that not too much air is going thru the muffs too fast. They have
to have a smaller outlet than inlet (fewer holes).
The Rick Robbins muffs have eccentric end caps and can be fit low on the
pipes just fine so you can use one on each side of the 6.
Put boots on the aileron push/pull tubes to reduce the blast up thru the
stick area.
Upholster the cabin to give it some R-value.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
<< I have a broken THOR angle drill. Any suggestions for repairs or parts?
>>
If you are in or near a large town, your best bet is a pneumatic tool repair
shop, they do not have to be dedicated to aircraft tools to repair your angle
drill. Look in your yellow pages under pneumatic tools and/or air tools and
keep calling till you find a shop that specializes in repair.
If you are not in a large enough town to have a pneumatic tool repair shop,
you can handle the repair through the mail with any one of several companies
that specialize in pneumatic tool repair. My company, Brown Aviation Tool
Supply Co., offers repair services with a turn-around time of 2-3 weeks after
receiving the tool in our shop, provided parts are readily available. If you
will call with your location, I might be able to provide you with the name of
a repair shop in your area.
While I am here, if anyone out there does not have a copy of our free catalog
of sheetmetal tools, please call toll free 1-800-587-3883, or e-mail us at :
BrownTool(at)aol.com and we will be happy to rush a copy to you. With the
holidays coming, be sure and tell your family and friends you want tools
under your tree !!!
With Best Regards,
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
Bethany, OK 73008
1-800-587-3883
405-495-4991
BrownTool(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer cleanup |
>
>I'm starting into my RV-8 kit and this is my first post to the RV List.
I
>have however been "lurking" for some time now gleaning all sorts of
>valuable information. Based on what I've read here I made the decision
to
>go the Sherwin Williams industrial wash primer route. So I bought some
and
>then bought a small "detail" gun from Sears. Here come the questions;
>
>1) What is the best solvent to use for cleanup? I've tried acetone and
it
>seems to congeal the remaing primer mix... yikes!
>
>2) Any hints/techniques for making the setup and cleanup routine easier
and
>faster?
>
>3) Geez, if I follow Van's instructions I'm going to be priming about
300
>small batches. Has anyone just gone ahead and deburred the edges and
primed
>a whole kit's worth of parts?
>
>Fledgling RV-8 builder,
>
>Randy Lervold
>starting on emp kit
>Vancouver, WA
>
Randy,
Since I'm using Variprime..which just LOVES Acetone for cleanup..can't
help ya much with the Sherwin Williams stuff.
As for priming ahead...by all means do so! I haven't found an instance
where it caused any heartache whatsoever when the parts were needed
later on. Don't worry about drilling through primed pre-punch holes..the
rivet shank effectively seals and protects in this area. When I received
the tailkit..I just went into a flange straightening/hole
deburring/surface scuffing/edge smoothing/fluting mode and got most of
the arduous "grunt work" done ahead, so I could enjoy actually putting
stuff together! Then, mixed up a batch of Variprime..and sprayed the
skeleton components. The skin I saved for a later time..after drilling
to the skeleton and dimpling. I figured I would scratch off a lot of
primer just in the handling during drilling.
If I recall, It took only three priming sessions to get the entire
interior of the all the tail kit components coated. Once you've gone
through it once..you'll find the quickest way to go about doing it..then
it's not so bad next time. Cleanup for me now is no more than 5 minutes
of work. Make Van's instructions work for YOUR situation...plan ahead
and make it easy on yourself. It can be done!
Oh, one more thing..the elevator horns...corrosion can set in very
quickly, especially around the weldments. So, I primered them..with
several coats very early on. I could see some oxidation already starting
to set in right out of the box. I buffed out the oxidation of course,
and scothbrite scuffed the entire surface for better "bite" of the
primer.
Enjoy!!
Brian Denk
Albuquerque, NM
-8 #379
fitting wing skins
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing flaps |
>RV-4 builders,
>While installing my flaps on the airplane I ran into a problem. The
>aluminum plate on the inboard end of each flap scrapes the side of the
>fuselage when traveling to the up position.
This is apparently a common problem, especially it seems with the left wing?
I had the problem on my 4 and it took a little work to make it fit. It was
close enough that if I filed the top of the flap bracket a little and pushed
the fuse in a little there it worked. If you looked closely when the flaps
are down you could see where the fuse was curved in a little but it never
was a problem. As well that area on the fuse calls for universal headed
rivets, I changed to flush rivets and that helped as well
On my current project I am not finishing the end of the flaps until I trial
fit the wings to the fuse, then I will be sure of the right fit
Tom Martin
RV4 sold HR on the gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I made the decision, I ordered the second airplane |
kit ...
>Suffering severe withdrawls from building airplanes, I surveyed the
market
>for another airplane kit. After staring at the thunder mustang,
tigress,
>and lancair, I came to the same conculusion I came to 2 years ago. You
>can't beat the value VAN gives with his airplane kits. Therefore, I
placed
>my order for the RV8A. I guess that numbers me amongst the elite
repeat
>RV-offenders group ( after all, how could I pass up VANS discount for
>repeat builders ?) . I can't wait to start riveting again ...
>
>Scott Johnson
>rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
>RV6A 70 HRS TT 345RV
>
Hah!!
You're SICK, SICK I tell you!! But, what a sweet affliction, eh? Even
after the short time with my -8 kit...I, too become rather testy when I
don't get to bang away on some rivets every day. A cup of AN426's with
breakfast starts the day off right...
Brian Denk
skinning the wings.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing flaps |
John T. Craig-Stearman wrote:
>
> RV-4 builders,
> While installing my flaps on the airplane I ran into a problem. The
> aluminum plate on the inboard end of each flap scrapes the side of the
> fuselage when traveling to the up position. I have measured everything I
> can think of, flap width, aileron to flap gap, etc., and I can't find any
> deviation from the plans dimensions. Has anyone else run into this
> problem? If so, how did you correct it?
> Thanks,
> Tom Craig-Stearman
> tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
> RV-4 complete airframe now! Engine next.
>
Tom
I had the same problem, I call vans they said this is a common
problem and to grind the plate at the top. It was a pain but it
worked. The plans called for round head rivets, I changed mine to
counter-sunk where the interference was.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Jim,
I used the same heat muff and firewall valve, and have had no problems
with heat. I did put the muff on the exhaust pipe on the right side
instead of the crossover (I have Carb heat box on the crossover). I also
wrapped a screen door spring (stretched out) around the exhaust pipe
inside the muff to increase the pipe surface area.
Cabin heat is a direct function of how well you seal your canopy, and
all other cabin air sources. You need to have the aileron tube fuselage
holes sealed with a flexable boot, as well as the spare area sealed so
that they are air tight, but don't allow water to collect. I have a
tiltup canopy that I've spent a lot of time being sure that it is not
allowing a suction of cabin air. (Canopy leaks typically create a
cockpit suction, pulling in cold air from every other leakage area.
Usually this is from the spare box area, causing the seat area, spare
box, and baggage compartment floor to be cold and drafty....) With the
other air leaks sealed, any canopy leaks tend to suck the hot air in from
the heat source.
I do have a pattern for the aileron boot if you need it. Email me for
an address..
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>I want to ask anybody if they have any suggestions for getting some
>decent
>cabin heat into a 6A. I used Van';s heat muff and firewall valve, but
>very
>little heat gets into the cabin. It is mounted crossways on the
>crossover
>exhaust. Wouldn';t fit anywhere else on the exhaust pipes. Too many
>curves.
> Help! Jim
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What sort of documentation? |
| From: | bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com (Robert L Reeves) |
Have a some of the photos showing you with your project. Also keep
receipts of everything you buy for it. Along with your builders log it
will satisfy most inspectors. Good luck and enjoy!
Bob Reeves
Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4
Hidden River Airport,
Sarasota, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
Jim, I have two heat muffs on straight parts of the exhaust and they are
working well enough. I did not make any special efforts to make the cabin
airtight. I have been flying with temperatures down to freezing, and the
cabin is warm -not hot. The jet of freezing air coimg up by the control
column and hitting in the crutch area is invigourating, to say the least.
The problem is, the engine does not really get warm until several minutes
into the flight, and by this time I am frozen.
I have decided on another route. Instead of trying to get the whole cabin
warm, it should be more efficient to warm me, so I have bought a 12v
electrical heated jacket from a motorbike store. I have not tried it yet. It
comes with a 10 amp fuse, and is a well made, insulated jacket. I will let
you know how it works when I have tried it.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I am going through the process of finding the correct prop for my
plane. Am I suppose to notify the faa everytime I try a different prop,
other than the one the inspector signed off? I know a lot of guys try
different props all the time and never notify the faa. I believe Jim
Ayers said he has to get a new air worthiness certificate when he tests
a new prop. I am mostly concerned with insurance coverage should
anything happen while I have a prop other than the one signed off by the
inspector on my plane, even if the prop has nothing to do with any
incident that may occur. Does anyone have experience or knowledge in
this area? Thanks. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
Me too on the Rick Robbins Heat muff. They work.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What sort of documentation? |
In a message dated 12/1/97 1:11:32 AM, you wrote:
>an anyone fill me in on exactly what
>
>is required? After a quick search of the FAA and EAA web sites I can't find
>
>anything.
Can't remember the source, but the requirement is for enough evidence to
convince the inspector that you did indeed build the plane. You will not find
any quantitative requirement. If he is not persuaded, he will quiz you and
count tools, etc. Have never heard of anyone flunking this thing-- It just
seems to be easier and more pleasant if he is persuaded quickly.
It was so obvious to the inspector that I "created" this baby that he never
asked for the log or photos. Of course I made him look at them any way.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
Joe,
I used the Duckworks lights and as the instructions mentioned, I ground down
the backs of the two plastic retainer strips that hold the lens in the
original lights, to hold the lights in their brackets. I think they look
better than the washers. The washers that are used to attach the brackets to
the ribs worked out fine. The only complaint I have is that the plexi lens
don't conform very well to the shape of the leading edge. I used the
strapping tape to pull the lens into the the opening but there were still
some gaps. Does anyone have an idea on how to improve the fit?
>Has anyone installed these lights in the wings?Following the instructions I
>
used the template to cut out the holes in the wing. After this point
>
things became hazy. Oversized flat washers with counter sunk bolts just
>
dont make sense.
Joel Harding RV-8 ab320flyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Cover |
Hello All,
Its good to see the list back up again (thanks for all your hard work
Matt!) and just in time to help solve my problem.
I am ready to install nutplates on the E615PP electric elevator trim
doubler but don't quite know how to make everything fit flush, mostly
the
#6 screws on the cover plate. The archives have some differing ideas on
how to do this but nothing definitive. I don't see how to dimple the
cover plate to accept the flush screws and still have the cover fit
flush with the skin(no room to accept the back side of the dimples on
the 615 plate).
Any help greatly appreciated.
Dave Bergh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer cleanup |
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Randy
MEK seems to work best to clean up the spray gun after using Sherwin
Williams Vinyl Wash Primer. Run some used stuff through first, then
follow up with some clean. Pour the rest of the clean into the used MEK
container.. Saves a little $$
Bill Davis
RV4 N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Filling fiberglass seams |
<< OK , The seams on my fiberglass tips are not as nice as I had hoped and
some filling will be required, especially the rudder bottom. My composit
experience is with fiberglass & bondo on cars. What is the best method of
filling the gap between the fiberglass & metal? A thin strip of light
weight fiberglass? Bondo? Micro baloons (how are they used, mixed with
epoxy resin?)? Some other method?
TIA
Fly Safe
Scott A. Jordan
-8 #331 >>
I prefer the epoxy resin/micro-balloon style, overlaid with a layer or two of
1.5 oz cloth. Remember, you will have vibration trying it's best to break
overy joint you have assembled, so try to cover your seams with something a
bit more substantial then simple bondo (epoxy/micro) and then cover that with
something flexible yet strong (cloth). BTW- I glue the actual tips on with
tank sealant. Keep in mind - resin/micro has no structural strength to it.
Use resin/flox or milled fibers if you feel that you need some strength from
this. Resin/flox is also v hard to sand.
Mix your resin/balloons until it is stiff like peanut butter. It will
probably still try to follow gravity, so allow for that too. Use a v dry
layup on the top layer of cloth. You will use these talents later, when you
lay up around your windshield.
My hat is off to the fellas that are able to make this area look good- it
ain't easy!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Primer cleanup |
Randy,
I think the directions say to use lacquer thinner. I use MEK for mine.
Cecil
>go the Sherwin Williams industrial wash primer route. So I bought some
>and
>then bought a small "detail" gun from Sears. Here come the questions;
>
>1) What is the best solvent to use for cleanup? I've tried acetone and
>it
>seems to congeal the remaing primer mix... yikes!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: -8 wingwalk reinforcements |
Brian, My 6A kit came with that piece cut to size. Look around harder.
Also check your shipping list to see what you received.
Cecil
writes:
>
>g'day folks,
>
>The .025 sheet that is used to reinforce the wing walk area...is it
>supposed to be cut from one of the 10"x48" sheets of Alclad? The plans
>
>call for a piece that is 9"x26", I think. I don't want to cut into
>something that I'll need later. I noticed there is no specific part
>numer called out here..so, I guess it has to be cut from stock
>material.
>
>Brian Denk
>fitting the wing skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Plane Takes Off without Pilot! |
Gentlemen:
Forgive the abuse of the cyberspace. I do not derive pleasure from
other people's troubles, but this news article was too much to resist
passing on. If the pilot is a member of the list, you have my sympathy. This
is a reprint from the Associated Press
URBANA, Ohio - A small aircraft took off without its pilot yesterday and flew
for nearly two hours before crashing in a field.
Paul A. Sirks of Dayton had landed the single engine plane at Urbana's
Grimes Field airport because of mechanical problems, said police officer Mike
Hughes.
The plane's engine stalled on a taxiway and Skirks got out to restart it
by hand-turning the propellor. Once the engine started, the empty plane
taxied away without Sirks, nearly hitting another aircraft and a hanger
before becoming airborne.
The plane circled the area for about five minutes, headed north-east,
and went down about 90 miles away, some 50 miles north-east of Columbus.
No charges had been filed against Sirks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
Hello Pat Carr:
We had a good BS session at the Wilmington Fly-In!!! Never found my
kind of 3 but looking at a Rocket!!! Big difference.....
Best
Regards
Jim
Brown
A20driver(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Belt Driven Vacuum pumps |
Can anyone provide any information on belt driven vacuum pumps? I believe I
was once informed that a model 241 or 242 is belt driven - can anyone
confirm??
Thanks
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers,
For anybody wanting a copy of my aileron boot pattern, send me a SASE
at:
Fred Stucklen
148 Winkler Rd.
E. Windsor, Ct. 06088
What I have is an 8 1/2" X 14" sheet that has the outline for the boot
and the reenforcement ring to mount it to the fuselage side. It also has
some installation notes to help you out..... The boots can be installed
on completed aircraft, but it's a lot easier to install them prior to
mounting the wings......
If anyone has a scanner please feel free to scan it and place it into
a web site so that all can have it quickly. I've dimensioned everything,
so it's easily reconstructed to full size from a picture......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Grass runways??? |
Anthony:
I'm sticking my neck out here, considering that I've never made
a single take off or landing in an RV. But I have landed on
many runways 1,000 feet long or less. I would think that 1,000
feet of grass would be pretty reasonable, so long as there
aren't any serious obstacles, and you always treat it with
respect (as you should any runway). Once accustomed to big,
wide runways, it takes an adjustment to feel comfortable on
shorter, narrower ones.
("Treat it with respect" would include not taking off, or not
landing there, if the conditions aren't suitable.)
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
[RV-6 tail]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
With regard to getting the lens to fit better ... I found it worked well to
heat the plexiglas with a heat gun while forcing it into the leading edge.
This helped it take the proper shape without leaving a gap in the front.
Lloyd Morris
Austin, TX
Beginning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Would anyone building a 6/6A please look at their dwg. #25 for the
fuselage and give me the diminsions shown for F602?
My dwgs are unreadable as it looks liked the diminsions were revised
by using a piece of tape and sloppy handwriting. As a result, the copy
is unreadable. Looking at the revision block, it says the numbers
should be 8 5/8", 8 5/8, and 5". These don't add up to the overall
22 1/8" at the notch. I've been calling Van's all morning and can't get
through!
Thanks,
Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
Please send me a copy of your catalogue.
Sincerely,
Ernest Kells
408-313 MacDonald Ave.,
Sault Ste. Marie, ON
P6B 5Y9
----------
> From: BrownTool(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: angle drill
> Date: December 1, 1997 2:44 AM
>
>
>
> << I have a broken THOR angle drill. Any suggestions for repairs or
parts?
> >>
>
> If you are in or near a large town, your best bet is a pneumatic tool
repair
> shop, they do not have to be dedicated to aircraft tools to repair your
angle
> drill. Look in your yellow pages under pneumatic tools and/or air tools
and
> keep calling till you find a shop that specializes in repair.
>
> If you are not in a large enough town to have a pneumatic tool repair
shop,
> you can handle the repair through the mail with any one of several
companies
> that specialize in pneumatic tool repair. My company, Brown Aviation
Tool
> Supply Co., offers repair services with a turn-around time of 2-3 weeks
after
> receiving the tool in our shop, provided parts are readily available. If
you
> will call with your location, I might be able to provide you with the
name of
> a repair shop in your area.
>
> While I am here, if anyone out there does not have a copy of our free
catalog
> of sheetmetal tools, please call toll free 1-800-587-3883, or e-mail us
at :
> BrownTool(at)aol.com and we will be happy to rush a copy to you. With the
> holidays coming, be sure and tell your family and friends you want tools
> under your tree !!!
>
> With Best Regards,
>
> Michael Brown
> Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
> Bethany, OK 73008
> 1-800-587-3883
> 405-495-4991
> BrownTool(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Primer cleanup |
Randy,
I use the SW wash in the small "preval" touch-up jar. The jar is reusable
and the non-fluorocarbon propellant canisters are cheap. Use all the primer
in the jar, which has one ounce gradients on it for easy mixing of small
amounts of primer, then swish a few ounces of lacquer thinner in the jar and
spray to clean the nozzle. Dump the thinner in your catch jar for recycling,
wipe out the jar and you are done.
and the 300 spray sessions? tis as nothing when compared to 12,000 rivets.
Best of luck,
Dennis Clay
RV-8 emp, just finished the rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com |
I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I saw
Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it? Is
it as handy as it is avdertised to be? The biggest advantage I
can see with the HVLP gun I was looking at was the fact that the
gun itself can be inverted since paint cup is separate from the
gun and the paint and air are supplied by hoses. Avery's gun
looks like it is "upright" only.
Chris Browne
Chris.Browne(at)BGE.COM
-6A Tail kit for Xmas, the wife offered to buy it!
Buying more and more and more tools ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What sort of documentation? |
> Just starting an RV-8 kit. I know a "builder's log" and accompanying
photos
> will be required for certification. Can anyone fill me in on exactly what
> is required? After a quick search of the FAA and EAA web sites I can't
find
> anything.
my builders log got written the night before and never looked at. I'm glad
I didn't put too much time into it. I think it's pretty apparent who's
building and who's paying.(the pro-seal under the fingernails gives it
away) kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BCFE73.7F91FFA0"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_001_01BCFE73.7F91FFA0
I have used other more expensive guns in the past and am very pleased
with Avery's gun. To make it somewhat inverted simply buy a few
different sizes of mason jars(same top size) and rivit the top to the
gun. You won't exactly be able to stand on your head and paint but it
will really elimate the spills quite a bit.
-----Original Message-----
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com [SMTP:CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com]
Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 3:21 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Spray Gun
I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I
saw
Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it?
Is
it as handy as it is avdertised to be? The biggest
advantage I
can see with the HVLP gun I was looking at was the fact
that the
gun itself can be inverted since paint cup is separate from
the
gun and the paint and air are supplied by hoses. Avery's
gun
looks like it is "upright" only.
Chris Browne
Chris.Browne(at)BGE.COM
-6A Tail kit for Xmas, the wife offered to buy it!
Buying more and more and more tools ...
------ =_NextPart_001_01BCFE73.7F91FFA0
I have used other more expensive guns =
in the past and am very pleased with Avery's gun. To make it =
somewhat inverted simply buy a few different sizes of mason jars(same =
top size) and rivit the top to the gun. You won't exactly =
be able to stand on your head and paint but it will really elimate the =
spills quite a bit.
-----Original Message-----
From: =
CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com [SMTP:CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com]
Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 3:21 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: =
RV-List: Spray Gun
--> RV-List =
message posted by: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)bge.com
I was about to cough up $100 =
for a HVLP Spray gun when I saw
Avery's "mini" gun =
with the paper cup. Has anyone used it? Is
it as handy as it is avdertised =
to be? The biggest advantage I
can see with the HVLP gun I was =
looking at was the fact that the
gun itself can be inverted =
since paint cup is separate from the
gun and the paint and air are =
supplied by hoses. Avery's gun
looks like it is =
"upright" only.
Chris Browne
Chris.Browne(at)BGE.COM
-6A Tail kit for Xmas, the wife =
offered to buy it!
Buying more and more and more =
tools ...
| Visit the Matronics & =
RV-List Web Sites at http://www.matronics.com> =
|
| &n=
bsp; &n=
bsp; &n=
bsp; =
--- &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
|
| To =
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" |
| & =
put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other =
| &n=
bsp; &n=
bsp; &n=
bsp; =
--- &nb=
sp; &nb=
sp; =
|
| =
posting! |
------ =_NextPart_001_01BCFE73.7F91FFA0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Belt Driven Vacuum pumps |
I'm told that Isuzu uses a combination Alternator/Vaccum pump on the diesel
versions of the Trooper. It should be a Nippondenso unit that is similar to
many I've seen on Experimentals. This would solve two problems, Alternator
and Vacuum pump, both belt driven and not filling up the cramped space at the
rear of the engine. As an automotive unit, I have to assume it has a much
better TBO and lower cost than we're used to.
If anyone has any firsthand knowledge please forward it to me off-list
Dan Helm
-4 working on instruments
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
| Subject: | What sort of documentation? |
boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BCFE74.EDBF4D10"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_001_01BCFE74.EDBF4D10
> Just starting an RV-8 kit. I know a "builder's log" and
accompanying
photos
> will be required for certification. Can anyone fill me in on
exactly what
> is required? After a quick search of the FAA and EAA web sites
I can't
find
* anything.
I would recommend looking into the EAA and the EAA inspection program.
They will be able to pair you up with someone who is qualified to look
your work over prior to closing things up. If you prefer you can just
get a regular A&P to take a look. I develop software for a living and
can tell you definitively that you need a separate person to do the Qual
work than the person(s) who do the building. Not only is it good
practice but just knowing that someone else is definitely going to look
at my work has pushed me to replace that marginal rivit when working
late into the night and avoid that ' it's only one rivit syndrome'.
This to me is much more important than the FAA inspection, because those
FAA guys don't have x-ray vision and as such can miss a lot of important
stuff. Additionally, getting someone to take a look early can save you
a lot of money because, you may do things wrong the same way through the
entire project.
------ =_NextPart_001_01BCFE74.EDBF4D10
> Just =
starting an RV-8 kit. I know a "builder's log" and =
accompanying
photos
> will be =
required for certification. Can anyone fill me in on exactly =
what
> is required? =
After a quick search of the FAA and EAA web sites I can't
find
I would =
recommend looking into the EAA and the EAA inspection program. =
They will be able to pair you up with someone who is qualified to look =
your work over prior to closing things up. If you prefer you can =
just get a regular A&P to take a look. I develop software for =
a living =
and can tell you definitively that you need a separate =
person to =
do the Qual work than the person(s) who do the building. Not =
only is =
it good practice but just knowing that someone else is definitely going to =
look at my work has pushed me to replace that marginal rivit when =
working late into the night and avoid that ' it's only one rivit =
syndrome'.
This to me is =
much more important than the FAA inspection, because those FAA guys =
don't have x-ray vision and as such can miss a lot of important stuff. =
Additionally, getting someone to take a look early can save =
you a lot =
of money because, you may do things wrong the same way through the =
entire project.
------ =_NextPart_001_01BCFE74.EDBF4D10--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I did not have a good experience with the gun. The trigger came apart
after a year and the nozzle frequently plugged during painting.
Un-waxed paper cups are not easy to find. On the other hand it was
inexpensive.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Fuselage bulkheads in the jig
-----Original Message-----
From: CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com [SMTP:CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com]
Sent: Monday, December 01, 1997 3:21 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Spray Gun
I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I
saw
Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it?
Is
it as handy as it is avdertised to be? The biggest
advantage I
can see with the HVLP gun I was looking at was the fact
that the
gun itself can be inverted since paint cup is separate from
the
gun and the paint and air are supplied by hoses. Avery's
gun
looks like it is "upright" only.
Chris Browne
Chris.Browne(at)BGE.COM
-6A Tail kit for Xmas, the wife offered to buy it!
Buying more and more and more tools ...
________________________________________________________________________________
Berkeley!" (Nov 19, 2:46am)
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Test From Berkeley! |
>510-422-4896)
>
>>--------------
>>
>>This is a test
>>
Got you Matt! Few messages on my machine thought.
Keep up the good work! - Ed H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | m.talley(at)juno.com (Michael L Talley) |
On Mon, 1 Dec CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com writes:
> I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I saw
> Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it? Is
> it as handy as it is avdertised to be? The biggest advantage I
> can see with the HVLP gun I was looking at was the fact that the
> gun itself can be inverted since paint cup is separate from the
> gun and the paint and air are supplied by hoses. Avery's gun
> looks like it is "upright" only.
I have one of these "paper cup" spray gun. I'd advise - save your money
and buy a "real" gun. The paper cup gun works sort of ok for real small
jobs. Getting the plastic air nozzle and air pressure just right takes
some fiddling. I also tried the aerosol pressure cans that have a glass
bottle for the paint. Again - buy a real gun and you'll save yourself a
lot of messing around. I got a HVLP gun on sale at an auto paint store
for around $140. It has the paint can on top - gravity feed - and has
worked well. Just make sure and clean it out real good. Once the epoxy
primer sets up it's there almost forever!
By the way, I finally found the manufacturer for alodine (Iridite 14-2)
in powder form. They are:
MacDermid Inc
245 Freight St
Waterbury CT 60702
phone 203-575-5700.
They don't sell direct but were happy to put me in touch with suppliers
in my area. The minimum size sold is 10# for around $160. It takes 1 to
1.5 oz per gallon of water so 10# will last forever. Maybe local
builder's groups would want to buy for the builders in their area?
Mike Talley RV-6
alodining and priming the second wing skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Belt Driven Vacuum pumps |
Please make that info on-list. I, and probably others are interested also.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings done!, saving pennies for fuse kit)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>I'm told that Isuzu uses a combination Alternator/Vaccum pump on the diesel
>versions of the Trooper. It should be a Nippondenso unit that is similar to
>many I've seen on Experimentals.
>If anyone has any firsthand knowledge please forward it to me off-list
>
>Dan Helm
>-4 working on instruments
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com wrote:
>
>
> I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I saw
> Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it? Is
> it as handy as it is avdertised to be? The biggest advantage I
> can see with the HVLP gun I was looking at was the fact that the
> gun itself can be inverted since paint cup is separate from the
> gun and the paint and air are supplied by hoses. Avery's gun
> looks like it is "upright" only.
>
> Chris Browne
> Chris.Browne(at)BGE.COM
> -6A Tail kit for Xmas, the wife offered to buy it!
> Buying more and more and more tools ...
>
Don't do it......just go out into the street an through $20 bill into the wind.
It will be a better use of your money!
Seriously, I tried one and wasted more valuable Veriprime than I'd like to admit.
I used a $25 Auto touch up gun for awhile and it worked ok but I wasted a lot of
material
due to overspray. I finally bought an inexpensive HVLP gun from Harbor Freight
and love it.
It will pay for itself in the amount of Veriprime that you don't waste to overspray.
Contact me personally if you want a part number.
Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
<< I do have a pattern for the aileron boot if you need it. Email me for
an address.. >>
BTW, Fred, I have turned your hand drawing into a true sized ACAD drawing and
it's available to anyone who wants it. I could send it as an attachment if
you have access to AutoCAD for plotting.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | NM Fuselage Jig Wanted |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
I have a non-list friend who is looking for an RV-6 fuselage jig for use
in a few months.
He lives in Dexter, NM (near Roswell).
Anyone in New Mexico or west Texas who will have a jig available that
they would like to pass on please contact Tom Benedict at 505-622-3458.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Mounting Autopilot Servo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What sort of documentation? |
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
> Just starting an RV-8 kit. I know a "builder's log" and accompanying photos
> will be required for certification. Can anyone fill me in on exactly what
> is required? After a quick search of the FAA and EAA web sites I can't find
> anything.
>
>Randy;
Contact the FAA and get Advisory Circular # 20-27D titled Certification
and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft.
It will answer a lot of questions. The FAA has a complete packet of
available information . The same circular describes the conditional
inspection, not an annual.
John Kitz
N721JK
RV-4 186 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chuckie8 <chuckie8(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Installing flaps |
John T. Craig-Stearman wrote:
>
>
> RV-4 builders,
> While installing my flaps on the airplane I ran into a problem. The
> aluminum plate on the inboard end of each flap scrapes the side of the
> fuselage when traveling to the up position. I have measured everything I
> can think of, flap width, aileron to flap gap, etc., and I can't find any
> deviation from the plans dimensions. Has anyone else run into this
> problem? If so, how did you correct it?
> Thanks,
> Tom Craig-Stearman
> tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
> RV-4 complete airframe now! Engine next.
>
Tom, same problem with mine. Don't think you measured anything wrong,
it's just one of those things that don't fit! Why? I don't know. Ask
Van. I had to cut my flaps off about 3/8 inch on the inside and re-mount
& re-rivet the aluminum plate that connects to the push rod. A real pain
in the butt, especially when you did everything right.Measure twice, cut
twice! I don't see any other way to fix it. About 4-5 hours per flap.
Buy a punching bag. It helps.------------- chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
CHRIS.BROWNE(at)BGE.com wrote:
> I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I saw
> Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it? Is
> it as handy as it is avdertised to be? The biggest advantage I
Chris,
I used it for awhile and found it adequate for most things. The cleanup
was certainly easy, as advertised. But I found myself spilling paint
when trying to paint skins horizontally or when cup was too heavy and
fell off (I now have a pair of green tennies:). The paint jobber where
I get my Variprime suggested using an old gun for primer... said they
use guns retired from finish work for primer since most primers are
corrosive/erosive (Variprime has phospheric acid in it for etching). I
bought a cheap ($32) gun from Lowe's and it's great. Since I will only
use it for primer, I don't obsess on cleanup and it's almost as easy as
the paper cup.
--
Greg Young gyoung@cs-sol.com
Citabria N90AV
RV-6 s/n 23070 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Installing flaps |
<< RV-4 builders,
While installing my flaps on the airplane I ran into a problem. The
aluminum plate on the inboard end of each flap scrapes the side of the
fuselage when traveling to the up position. I have measured everything I
can think of, flap width, aileron to flap gap, etc., and I can't find any
deviation from the plans dimensions. Has anyone else run into this
problem? If so, how did you correct it? >>
Tom-Craig?,
This is not a new problem. I had the same problem on my 4 and so have other
people Ive talked to. I took a little different aproach from others in
correcting this problem. I drilled out the rivets attatching the rib at the
inboard end of the flap. I also removed the rivets holding the plate assy
together. I moved the rib outboard (away from the fuselage) a quarter of an
inch and picked up the holes from the rib into the skin. I filed the old
holes with rivets and reasembled. When finished you have two rows of rivets
instead of one. Hardly noticeable ,very tidy looking and hiden when the flaps
are up under the wing root fairing anyway. Beats banging on your structure or
filling away to much material to make it fit. Hope this helps, I remember how
pissed off I was when I found out mine didnt fit.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnes, Eric" <eric.barnes(at)tandem.com> |
| Subject: | Duckworks landing lights - Try a different lens? |
At Van's homecoming I met a builder that had made his own landing light
set up. He had fabricated a lens out of a shop face shield. It was
quite flexible and had been installed for 5+ years and over a few
hundred hours. It also had no appreciable scratches (what I would worry
about).
I have the Duckworks kit, but if that lens is difficult to install, I
may substitute this idea, unless someone can think of a draw back. I'll
probably use a motorcycle face shield...
EB #80131
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | heated pitot tube information |
| From: | gretz-aero(at)juno.com (Warren Gretz) |
I now have an e-mail address that I can use for getting and replying to
questions about my pitot tube mounting bracket kits, new pitot tubes, and
my newest product, ToolKey.
ToolKey is an attractive, polished stainless steel, key fob tool designed
to open the fuel filler caps on your RV. The head of ToolKey has your RV
model laser cut into it. These are attractive, and useful, they also make
a great gift item for your RV buddies.
Please contact me if you would like a flyer on my products, have
questions about them, or would just like to make comments to me.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
3664 East Lake Drive
Littleton, Colorado 80121
e-mail: gretz-aero(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Cover |
Dave wrote:
>I am ready to install nutplates on the E615PP electric elevator trim
>doubler but don't quite know how to make everything fit flush, mostly
>the
>#6 screws on the cover plate. The archives have some differing ideas
on
>how to do this but nothing definitive. I don't see how to dimple the
>cover plate to accept the flush screws and still have the cover fit
>flush with the skin(no room to accept the back side of the dimples on
>the 615 plate).
>Any help greatly appreciated.
>Dave Bergh
>
OK, here's what worked for me. I mounted the nutplates and countersunk
all the way down to the steel using a deburring tool and lots of
pressure. I then dimpled the cover with dies for AN426-4 rivets. This
gives dimples that fit snug into the countersink, but the screws still
don't sit flush. Countersink into the cover dimple just enough to have
the screw fit flush.
I fiddled around with scrap with a friend to come up with this. I
sectioned the countersunk dimple in the scrap with my bandsaw to check
the thickness of metal remaining, and I was satisfied that the
countersinking had not removed much material.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -8 wingwalk reinforcements |
yes
the left over .025 is use for the wing access covers.
closing the wings
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cjfranz(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: F602 Bulkhead |
writes:
>Would anyone building a 6/6A please look at their dwg. #25 for the
>fuselage and give me the diminsions shown for F602?
Ed,
My full size drawing # 25 is just as bad as your's, but the reduced size
drawing in the preview plan set is a lot clearer. The dimensions shown
there are 5", 8 3/8", 8 5/8" , bottom to top. The preview plan set is
the same revision as the full size set. Hope this helps.
Carl Franz
Working on the wings, starting the Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Hinge Dimentions |
Hello RV list
Does anyone know if there any info on the dimensions to set the rudder hinge
rod ends? Due to the different VS hinge lengths I would assume the rod end
length varies also. Or do you just line them up and try them until they work?
Any ideas?
Rich Zeidman RV6A S/N 25224
finishing up empinage kit- Waiting for wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine options, etc. |
First define what you want to do with the airplane, then find the airplane.
Do it the other way around and you spend money where not needed and spend
not enough on what is needed.
You want a Rocket? "Rocket" is a relative term as well a brand name. Got
lots of hours in a 152? Then any RV is a rocket. Need to get out of tight
spot? How much rocket is enough?
Go to Van's, mooch a ride in the 8, and then see if you still want to build a
Rocket. I suspect the 8 with it's "little" engine is rocket enough. In
that you're commited to building, it could be the cheapest research and the
biggest dollar savings you could ask for.
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Cover |
<3482EA15.4959(at)micron.net>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I'm not absolutely certain with out looking into it but I believe that
with the space constraints that truss head instead of flush head screws
were meant to be used. Since they are only #6 and relatively small they
shouldn't slow you down too much.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
The FAA says you must notified them if you make a Major Change.
Anything that could effect the flight characteristics of the airplane,
and generally in there opinion a propeller falls in this category.
The may issue you another flight test duration (usually less than
issued for the first flight).
Bill B., general manager at Vans just put a new O-360 with a Warnke
prop on his well flight tested RV-4 and I believe he had a much reduced
flight test duration. - maybe he can comment more -
If you are having trouble getting a prop match you are happy with.
Consider getting in touch with one of the prop makers that will carve you
a prop and just finish it with sealer, and then have you fly it.
Send it back as often as you are willing to pay the UPS freight, and they
will keep adjusting till your happy. Then they will go ahead and finish
it completely with leading edge protection, clear finish, and paint, etc.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: RV-LIST: Heater in 6A |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I had originally sent this to jim directly because I wasn't sure if the
list was fully operational yet, but I'm posting it here now in case
anyone else is interested in the approach I have used successfully on 5
RV's now, including the new yellow RV-8.
Jim,
I'm not sure if the list is up and running yet so I'm replying
off list.
The cross over pipe is not necessarily any worse of a location
than others. I have found that you can improve the heat output
regardless where the heat muff is mounted.
What I do is remove the little air dam that is riveted to the
inside of the heat muff, and seal the holes used to attach it using
rivets of your choice. Then go to the housewares dept of your local
grocery store and buy a bunch of the little stainless steel scrubber pads
that are made for pot scrubbing. They look like stainless steel wire
mesh in 2 " diam. ball. Buy enough packages to have
8 to 10 scrubber pads. While installing/closing the split heat muff,
insert enough scrubber pads to just fill the space inside the muff.
Don't pack them in (you still want air to freely flow through) put in
just enough to fill the interior volume. It's also a good idea to lace a
piece of safety wire through the pads at the outlet end of the muff to be
sure that none of them can get blown out; especially if you are also
using the muff for carb heat.
Let me know if it helps; Their are other things that could be
causing poor heat output. Where is the source (inlet) that is providing
the air to the heat muff?
BTW this fix will reduce the amount of air that comes through the
heat system slightly (also slows it down so it has TIME to get heated up
more), but it provides a higher temp. air coming through.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Hinge Dimentions |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I believe somewhere in the emp. drawings (not sure which #) it shows a
nominal dimension for the distance between the stab. spar and the rudder
spar.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Belt Driven Vacuum pumps |
I'm installing a belt driven vacuum pump kit on my clubs 172. This kit is for
the cont O300 engine and is from Airborne. However, the kit is just about
unavailable from what I have found. I found a used kit from Wentworth
Aircraft and it will work fine. I don't know if they also have a kit for the
O320/O360. If you want any more info I will try to dig up what I can
Rich Zeidman
RV6A SN25224
empinage almost complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 flap trimming |
Recently there was a discussion on the list about trimming the inboard
end of the flap. I've just finished my RV-6 flaps and the fit up to the
fuselage with very good results and thought I'd pass on what I learned.
First, during the wing construction I rivited up the bottom skin of the
flap with its ribs except for the inboard one which I only drilled. The
spar was drilled to the ribs and the bottom skin with the hinge but only
clecoed on. Make sure that the spar is tight against the ribs when you
drill it the the bottom skin or later you could induce a twist into the
assembly.
Using I think Frank Justices method of installing and aligning the
ailerons and flap I positioned the wings vertically with the nose down.
The wing top skins were riveted on but the bottoms were still only
clecoed. Following his proceedure I aligned and installed the aileron
hinges and flap hinges with the aileron and bottom flap assembly in
place (his proceedure uses the tooling holes for alignment and no wing
profile). The top flap skin trailing end was aligned with the aileron
trailing edge and a couple of alignment holes were drilled to locate it
to the bottom flap assembly. The inboard linkage attachment peices were
not yet installed. At this point I set the incompleted flaps aside and
proceeded to finish the wings and build the fuselage.
(Fast forward 2 years)
After getting the fuselage on the gear and the wings installed I was now
ready to complete the flaps. I drilled the top skin to the bottom
assembly. With the top skin off I put the bottom flap assembly onto the
wing. This allowed me to mark edge of the fuselage onto the bottom
skin. THIS IS NOT FOR CUTTING, It is for locating the inboard flap
linkage plate.
Next, I used poster board to make a template that when set on top of the
inboard two flap ribs would reach from the spar to the trailing edge of
the inboard rib and would follow the fuselage contour. This is easy to
do with siccors using trial and error. This was taped into place as if
it were the top skin. Take the flap off of the wing and set it on a
bench, position the top skin and cleco into place with the template
still in place. A few clecos can actually be pushed through the
template. Flip it over and trace the edge of the template onto the
bottom side of the top skin. Remove the top skin, extend the trim line
to the front and rear. Cut along the line. At approximately 1/2" from
the trailing edge, angle the cut off to the inboard edge. This area
will be final trimmed on the fuselage. After filing the edge, cleco the
top flap skin on and reinstall onto the wing. Pivot it up and trim the
last 1/2" with a rat tail and small striaght file. You should now have
a perfect fitting top flap skin to fuselage intersection. Please
remember that the bottom skin DOES NOT GET TRIMMED.
With the flaps off the wing and the top skin off the inboard brackets
can be made. The fuselage line on the bottom skin will be used to
position the inboard linkage attachment plate. This plate should be at
1/8" away from the fuselage.
I hope this is of some help. Now the only question is if 1/16"
clearance is enough between the fuselage and flap to prevent rubbing
under flight load?
Frank Smidler
smidler(at)dcwi.com
RV-6, working on finishing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F602 Bulkhead |
<>
Ed-
They are clearly 8 5/8", 8 3/8" and 5". I don't know where you got the 22
1/8" dimension.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Hinge Dimentions |
<< Does anyone know if there any info on the dimensions to set the rudder
hinge
rod ends? Due to the different VS hinge lengths I would assume the rod end
length varies also. Or do you just line them up and try them until they
work? >>
Basically, Yes. You need to have at least the minimum engagement of the rod
end threads (one diameter will do but no less). The rest is by successive
approximation.
Get the top and bottom rod ends set up so that you get the needed travel
without contact, then dial the center one in.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | F>I. alternate air |
I'm trying to figure out where to put an alternate air door. Let me explain.
I have a fuel injected engine (IO320B1A) with the Bendix Fuel Injection
Servo, and the FAB-360 filtered air box. Van provides instructions with
the FAB for a carb heat door, but those of us with fuel injected engines
are on our own. Fuel injected engines don't suffer from carb ice and
therefore don't need carb heat, but there SHOULD be an alternate path for
intake air. I've yet to see a production fuel-injected airplane without an
alternate air inlet.
I know that some people have simply used the carb heat door on the FAB as
an alternate air door, but I don't believe that is the right thing to do.
If you need the alternate air, it is because something is blocking the
normal air inlet. If something is going to get jammed into the air intake
(like a bird, for instance), the spot in the FAB where the carb heat door
is located is probably the spot where the jammed object will be.
I talked this problem over with a friend of mine who is an A&P and the
builder/rebuilder/restorer/owner of several airplanes, and we agreed that
the alternate air door should be located out of the normal path of intake
air.
That leaves us with two possibilities:
1. The bottom of the fiberglass 'bowl' of the FAB forms the seal around the
bottom of the filter element (This is a little different than the FAB-320).
The ideal place, then for the alternate air door would be the bottom of the
fiberglass 'bowl'. An alternate air door here would provide a path that
completely bypasses the normal intake path and the air filter. The only
problem is that there is only about 1.75 inched clearance between the
bottom of the FAB and the bottom of the scoop. Not a lot of room for a
door to open.
2. Put the alternate air door on the back of the FAB's fiberglass 'bowl'.
This is less attractive, but probably more workable.
So I'm taking a survey, of sorts. I'm asking anyone who is installing or
has installed a fuel injected engine to please tell me what you did for an
alternate air door.
Thanks in advance,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
down to the last 90 percent
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Hinge Dimentions |
> I believe somewhere in the emp. drawings (not sure which #) it shows a
> nominal dimension for the distance between the stab. spar and the rudder
> spar.
I think Scott's right. Also, my page
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny1b.htm has my
experiences in that area (and others).
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
Bob:
Yes, I have tiried that. Actually, she understands about planes real
well. Just doesn't want to have anything to do with them at
altitudes > 1 millimeter.
Thanks for the thought.
George Kilishek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
I used the Robin Wings muffs and put one on each pipe of my crossover system
just downstream from the swivel connections. I fed the air from one into the
other and then to the cockpit. This provided way too much heat so I took one
of them off. I installed the "Y" fitting that Van's sells on the cockpit
side of the heat valve and then made two piccolo tubes to spread the heat and
attached one to each side of the Y with scat tube. Each piccolo tube is
mounted just above the rudder pedals, one on each side of the cockpit. The
system works great. To get heat to the upper part of the cockpit and to
defog the canopy, I have two fans in the glareshield that draw warm air from
the foot wells and blow it on to the windshield. This makes the upper half
of the cockpit very warm and comfortable even in the coldest conditions.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Take heart! My wife was also not very excited about the prospect of flying
in my RV when I started. What finally got her to take a ride was seeing all
of the passengers that I took for rides come back with this great big grin on
their faces. The first ride was OK, but she was still not too anxious to fly
with me. I didn't push the issue. Then she went on another ride with a
little more knowledge of what to expect and she liked it better than the
first one. Each ride went a bit better and now she loves it. She completely
lost her aprehensions about the RV and even fell asleep on a cross country
flight to Boone Iowa. I took a 64 year old lady friend (who is also a pilot)
for a ride and she insisted that I wring the plane out a bit and do some mild
aerobatics with her. I landed and this lady started telling my wife how much
she enjoyed the aerobatics that I did. That did it! My wife had to try it
for herself. It is not her cup of tea, but now at least I can get a roll in
now and then when we fly. Be patient and understanding with her and she may
also come to love flying in your RV.
My wife wrote an article for one of the 1997 issues of my newsletter in which
she described her thoughts about building and flying. It is must reading for
your significant other if she (or he) has any reservations about your
project. You can get back issues of the newsletter from the new editor,
Kevin Lowery. They are $5.00 per year. Contact Kevin at
kevinlowery(at)compuserve.com.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights - Try a different lens? |
>I have the Duckworks kit, but if that lens is difficult to install, I
The Duckworks kit, and lens is extremely easy to install. The directions
are clear and concise; the hardware is first-class. You won't be
disappointed. The only thing to watch for, and it is clearly mentioned in
the Duckworks documentation, is to file or grind off the humps at the
leading edge curve to get a good fit. Look closely at the edges of the
lense at the curve and you'll easily see what needs to be done.
It's hard to imagine you would be able to fabricate a better system at for
less money. The Duckworks lights easily pass the RV performance vs cost for
value test.
I like them enough to put one at the end of each wing.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
>the ribs worked out fine. The only complaint I have is that the plexi lens
>don't conform very well to the shape of the leading edge. I used the
My lenses fit very nicely, but only after I carefully filed off the humps at
the curve for the leading edge. It only took about 2-3 minutes per lens of
adjustment with a file and they fit great. This step is mentioned in the
documentation.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
>Has anyone installed these lights in the wings?Following the instructions I
>used the template to cut out the holes in the wing. After this point
>things became hazy. Oversized flat washers with counter sunk bolts just
>dont make sense. The examples consist of four black and white photo's
Yes, one in each wing. Both were easy to install and fit great. I also
thought the countersunk bolts in flat washers looked a little cheesy, but
once installed, they worked so well I have no plans to change them.
The only thing I can recommend is to pay particular attention to the
instruction to file or grind off the hump on the lens at the leading edge
where the plastic lens meets the aluminum leading edge. It WILL take some
filing or grinding to get a good fit; it WON'T take more than a few minutes.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Hinge Dimentions |
Rbz1(at)aol.com wrote:
snippe
> Hello RV list
> Does anyone know if there any info on the dimensions to set the rudder hinge
> rod ends? Due to the different VS hinge lengths I would assume the rod end
> length varies also. Or do you just line them up and try them until they work?
> Any ideas?
Rich,
I emailed Van's about this a few days ago. About 2 hours after sending
the question, I looked a little closer at my plans (I'm building an
RV-8, but the rudder & VS are basicly the same). On 6PP on the lower
left corner, it shows that the distance between VS & rudder spars is 2"
at the top edge and 2.5" at the bottom.
When Van's responded, they said the dimension is not critical. I spent
the extra time to get it right so that my counterbalance skin would stay
parallel to the VS skin top edge. Hope this helps.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 #80372 elevators
Boca Raton, Fl.
se standard K1000 style nutplates
by making a spacer out of .060" aluminium to be placed between the
nutplate & the reinforcing plate. Countersink the .060" material, dimple
the cover and the reinforcing plate for the screws.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 #80372 elevators
Boca Raton, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F>I. alternate air |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Hi Dave,
I'm not sure but isn't an alt. air door provided on a lot of
certified birds with F.I. because the air filter assembly is remote from
the servo; which provides a lot of places that something could get caught
in the intake system?
I believe this is the case and the reason the have one.
Like you mentioned; when using the FAB if something gets caught then it
is right there at the filter. In any case I think you are in the same
situation regardless of whether you have F.I. or a carb.
So I don't think your F.I. installation warrants an alt air door any more
than a carb installation. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have them, but I
don't know of anyone that has done what you are describing.
BTW with the kind of damage that I have seen from bird contact at
180 mph I think its more likely that the airbox wouldn't be there any
more than it is for it to have one plugging it up.
Let us know if you come up with any slick ideas.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com (James E Ayers) |
writes:
>
>I am going through the process of finding the correct prop for my
>plane. Am I suppose to notify the faa everytime I try a different prop,
>other than the one the inspector signed off? I know a lot of guys try
>different props all the time and never notify the faa. I believe Jim
>Ayers said he has to get a new air worthiness certificate when he tests
>a new prop. I am mostly concerned with insurance coverage should
>anything happen while I have a prop other than the one signed off by the
>inspector on my plane, even if the prop has nothing to do with any
>incident that may occur. Does anyone have experience or knowledge in
>this area? Thanks. Michael
When I installed the LOM engine in my RV-3, I had the new airworthiness
certificate address both a fixed pitch wood prop and the ground
adjustable Ivoprop Magnum prop. This allowed me to change between the
props specified. I had a ten hours flight test period for the new LOM
engine installation.
When the electric variable pitch Ivoprop Magnum prop became available, I
got a new airworthiness certificate. My present airworthiness
certificate covers my wood prop, the Ivoprop ground adjustable prop, and
(after the additional ten hour flight test period) the Ivoprop Magnum
Variable pitch prop. Since they are specified in my airworthiness
certificate, I can switch between any of them. However, I had to
demonstrate all of them to get this.
IMHO, The FAR definitions apply for major and minor alterations. But the
controlling document for a homebuilt is the airworthiness certificate for
YOUR aircraft. Ask to have it written to include what YOU want. Just
remember one thing, though. I had to demonstrate ALL of the props on my
RV-3 to complete the flight restrictions.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LOM M332A engine Warnke fixed pitch wood prop (Reference "Standard")
Sportcraft Wingtip COM antenna and Vertical Stabilizer COM antenna
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Cover |
<< E615PP electric elevator trim doubler >>
You aren't using your preview plans are you? That part number rings a bell
from when I was researching something on the "Junkyard Dog" RV-4. The preview
plans called for a part number that had "PP" behind it, but when I looked at
the big plans (the ones with my serial number) the "PP" wasn't there.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
Slave to the "Junkyard Dog" RV-4 S/No 4239
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Edward Cole wrote:
> I finally bought an inexpensive HVLP gun from Harbor Freight and love it.
> It will pay for itself in the amount of Veriprime that you don't waste to overspray.
> Contact me personally if you want a part number.
Ed, please give us the part number.
Thanks,
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Thanks for the info, Jim. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing spar and
using the Avery C tool. I am getting a slight gap (.020") between the W606A
spar and the W606C web. Drilled out rivets and tried again using bolts
through adjacent holes on each side of rivet to hold everything together,
but still not happy with results.
Plans and pictures included with instructions show the -6 rivets facing aft
in the wing spar, this puts the factory head on the thinest piece of
material - and goes against the rule to put factory head on the thicker
material.
Previous posts about this problem occuring on the HS spar have recommended
turning the rivets around so factory head is on thicker metal, would this
suggestion also be ok on outboard end of wing spar (stn. 74 to 109) or does
anyone have other suggestions ?
Thanks,
George McNutt, Langley BC
-6A wing spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Cover |
>I am ready to install nutplates on the E615PP electric elevator trim
>doubler but don't quite know how to make everything fit flush - I don't
>see how to dimple the cover plate to accept the flush screws and still
>have the cover fit flush with the skin (no room to accept the back side
>of the dimples on the 615 plate).
Hi Dave
I countersunk for and used small cheater rivets to attach the nutplates,
then countersunk right down and slightly into the nutplates to make room
for the dimple in the outside cover plate (E-616PP). The screw heads did
not sit down flush into the cover plate so I countersunk slightly into the
cover plate dimple. The screws still stick up about .005" but I don't want
to take out any more metal and it looks OK now and will be great when
painted.
George McNutt, Langley BC.
Wing Spars & trouble with those -6 rivets!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
> I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I saw
> Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it? Is
> it as handy as it is avdertised to be? The biggest advantage I
> can see with the HVLP gun I was looking at was the fact that the
> gun itself can be inverted since paint cup is separate from the
> gun and the paint and air are supplied by hoses. Avery's gun
> looks like it is "upright" only.
Hi Chris
Initially I was not satisfied with the Avery spray gun because the paper
cups kept falling off. Called Avery's and they said I could return it
before or after a suggested modification to rivet a canning jar lid on and
using glass jars to hold the paint. After modification I decided to keep
the gun and I have used it to prime the empennage and wing spars.
Reasonably good results with epoxy primer, no other problems and easy to
use and clean.
George McNutt
Wing Spars 6-A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
GV
>
>
...
>
>Place pickup 2" diameter flanges as low as possible on the rear baffles so
>the air is already slightly warmed before it gets to the muff.
>
>....
I saw this on George's video and I was concerned that if there was a exhaust
leak it would feed into the heater duct.
Is this a 'real' concern? (I haven't mounted my engine yet so I'm not sure
if the exhaust pipes get anywhere near the air path.)
Royce Craven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe) |
George McNutt writes:
snip
>Plans and pictures included with instructions show the -6 rivets
>facing aft in the wing spar, this puts the factory head on the thinest
piece of
>material - and goes against the rule to put factory head on the
>thicker material.
This probably won't be much help as far as your problem goes, but I
believe that the factory head (the one on the rivet before driving it) is
supposed to be against the thinner material when possible, and the shop
head (the one you make with your bucking bar) is supposed to be on the
side with the thicker material. This has always worked best for me as
far as preventing distortion of the parts being mated when driving
rivets, especially the #4s.
OTOH, I've noticed that the plans often have the rivets the other way
around for no apparent reason. Although I generally install them
according to the plans (when possible), I have always experienced the
best results when the shop head is against the thicker material.
I do not know whether there is any difference in strength between the two
methods. However, I would bet that the shop-head-on-the-thicker-material
would be stronger since there is no distortion of the mating surfaces.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
> I do have a pattern for the aileron boot if you need it. Email me for
> an address..
>
>
> Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
> wstucklen1(at)juno.com
This sounds like something that many of us could use. Any possibility of getting
it out on one of the RV home pages?
________________________________________________________________________________
----------
>
> Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing spar and
> using the Avery C tool. I am getting a slight gap (.020") between the W606A
> spar and the W606C web.
I had the same problem, but solved it by "seating" the assembly onto each rivet
head
by placing a 1/4" drive deep socket of appropriate diameter over the rivet and
tapping the
flange strip lightly. Do this to each rivet just prior to setting the rivet.
> Thanks,
> George McNutt, Langley BC
> -6A wing spars
>
Brian Eckstein
6A Still wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
Jim, Where did you tap your inlet air from on the baffle?
I installed the "Y" fitting that Van's sells on the cockpit
>side of the heat valve and then made two piccolo tubes to spread the heat and
>attached one to each side of the Y with scat tube.
>Jim Cone
>RV-6A flying
The "piccolo tubes", where did you get them or did you manufacture them?
Thanks.
Have a good one.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: F>I. alternate air |
Hi Dave,
My inspector required me to do the same with my fuel injected 360. I didn't want
another cable run
so I tried something.
I put a door (hinged upwards) in the bottom of the FAB right inside the filter.
I then secured it
closed with a spring. My idea was that if the filter became completely blocked,
vacuum would suck
the door open enough for me to get home.
I later decided to close it off as I just wasn't able to be confident in it.
I also left a screw and nut secured through the bottom of the FAB which later vibrated
through the
'glass and got sucked up into the servo...BE CAREFUL, the FAB is VERY thin.
What I'm going to do once the weather turns to spring is to put a sliding door
on the FAB. I think
if I ever needed to use alt air, it would be in an emergency and I'd probably want
to take the cowl
off to reset it anyway.
Ken RV6A FLying
I'm trying to figure out where to put an alternate air door. Let me explain.
I have a fuel injected engine (IO320B1A) with the Bendix Fuel Injection
Servo, and the FAB-360 filtered air box. Van provides instructions with
the FAB for a carb heat door, but those of us with fuel injected engines
are on our own. Fuel injected engines don't suffer from carb ice and
therefore don't need carb heat, but there SHOULD be an alternate path for
intake air. I've yet to see a production fuel-injected airplane without an
alternate air inlet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: Free RV photos to good home] |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------34B279AD535D
I sent this last Thursday. Apparently, it was swallowed up into
cyberspace while the list was down.
--------------34B279AD535D
Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:36:12 -0500
From: Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Free RV photos to good home
Hi all!
Ed Anderson was kind enough to mail me his very nice engine bay photos.
He has built an RV-6A with a Mazda 13B. It appears to be a first rate
installation. I have scanned the photos (15 in all) and sent his photos
back. Is anyone with an RV related web site willing to put these photos
on their site? They come with 3 typewritten pages explaining the photos.
They have all their shots and come with a free flea collar. :-)
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 making elevator stiffeners on Thanksgiving. I'm thankful I have an
understanding girlfriend.
Boca Raton, Florida
--------------34B279AD535D--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dbergh(at)micron.net |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Cover |
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
>
> dbergh(at)micron.net wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> snipped
>
> > I am ready to install nutplates on the E615PP electric elevator trim
> > doubler but don't quite know how to make everything fit flush, mostly
> > the
> > #6 screws on the cover plate. The archives have some differing ideas on
> > how to do this but nothing definitive. I don't see how to dimple the
> > cover plate to accept the flush screws and still have the cover fit
> > flush with the skin(no room to accept the back side of the dimples on
> > the 615 plate).
> > Any help greatly appreciated.
> > Dave Bergh
>
> Hi Dave,
> You & I are at about the same point in building. I know that they make
> dimpled nutplates specificly for the situation you discribe. I went over
> to Jody Edwards' (A&P, EAA tech councilor & RV-4 builder) house tonight
> to: #1 help him with his plane, #2 borrow his visegrip dimplers. :-)
> I posed your question to him. He also mentioned using the dimpled
> nutplates. However, he said you can use standard K1000 style nutplates
> by making a spacer out of .060" aluminium to be placed between the
> nutplate & the reinforcing plate. Countersink the .060" material, dimple
> the cover and the reinforcing plate for the screws.
>
> Charlie Kuss
> RV-8 #80372 elevators
> Boca Raton, Florida
>
Thank you for the input everyone.
I E mailed Vans and Bill B also recomended the shims under the nut
plates . This seems like the best solution to me so I'm off to the shop
to make some shims. See ya.
Dave Bergh
RV6 elevator
Mtn Home, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
LOOK OUT FOR NUMBER 33
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
GV,
Would love to have a copy of your AutoCAD drawing. Please send it to
FSTUCKLEN(at)HASBRO.COM as this JUNO address woun't take attachements...
Thanks,
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>
><< I do have a pattern for the aileron boot if you need it. Email me
>for
> an address.. >>
>
>BTW, Fred, I have turned your hand drawing into a true sized ACAD
>drawing and
>it's available to anyone who wants it. I could send it as an
>attachment if
>you have access to AutoCAD for plotting.
>
>-GV
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TPhilpin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F>I. alternate air |
<< I believe this is the case and the reason the have one.
Like you mentioned; when using the FAB if something gets caught then it
is right there at the filter. In any case I think you are in the same
situation regardless of whether you have F.I. or a carb.
So I don't think your F.I. installation warrants an alt air door any more
than a carb installation. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have them, but I
don't know of anyone that has done what you are describing.
>>
Dave,
Also consider blockage due to snow or ice. Is there any necessity for the
alternate air to be from outside the engine compartment? How about drawing
on the warm pressurized air from within. My old Piper Clipper is set up
this way.
Tony
RV-8 Tail on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Hinge Dimentions |
Rbz1(at)aol.com wrote:
> Does anyone know if there any info on the dimensions to set the rudder hinge
> rod ends?
> Rich Zeidman RV6A S/N 25224
>
Rich,The following worked for me, first time, no repeat trial fitting and
adjusting.
First, I did the simple math to determine the distance from the rudder spar to
the
center of both the top and bottom heim joints. After setting these to the
calulated dimensions, I used the string method for aligning the center heim joint
to the top and bottom ones. Don't forget to use the centering bushing with your
string.
Hope this helps,
Keith Warfield
RV-6A (starting Wings)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F>I. alternate air |
<< 1. The bottom of the fiberglass 'bowl' of the FAB forms the seal around
the
bottom of the filter element (This is a little different than the FAB-320).
The ideal place, then for the alternate air door would be the bottom of the
fiberglass 'bowl'. An alternate air door here would provide a path that
completely bypasses the normal intake path and the air filter. The only
problem is that there is only about 1.75 inched clearance between the
bottom of the FAB and the bottom of the scoop. Not a lot of room for a
door to open.
2. Put the alternate air door on the back of the FAB's fiberglass 'bowl'.
This is less attractive, but probably more workable.
So I'm taking a survey, of sorts. I'm asking anyone who is installing or
has installed a fuel injected engine to please tell me what you did for an
alternate air door.
Thanks in advance,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
down to the last 90 percent
>>
The alternate air supply should bypass the filter. I've always thought that
this device was for use when the filter iced over (IFR conditions), or was
blocked by some foreign matter.
So: if you follow this rule, you will need a supply door to be installed into
the bottom plate if the filter assy, and also thru the 'glass bowl. This
supply doesn't have to provide FULL power (altho that would be nice!), but it
should enable your engine to continue to run. I'd guess that the room below
the fab(ulous) air box would be enough. Could you get a large enough hole
thru the top plate?
Also: If you can, try to design the alt air door to be automatic
(spring-loaded or similiar). I'd like to see an indicator lite in this case,
so I'd know if it was opening under different than desired situations.
Also #2: There have been cases of the door coming loose, and causing engine
stoppage. Make that sucker beefy!
I'll be working on an -8 w/F.I. after Jan 1, and it will have a similiar
system, not yet designed. I'd appreciate any tips you come up with!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: F>I. alternate air |
Hi Dave,
I also have an IO-320B1A engine, with the FAB-360 air box. I was able to
mount a 2" flange just above the alternate door on the air box. If you want
to see some pictures of it just go to
http://members.aol.com/mlaboyteau/engine2.htm
It doesn't quite cover the whole alternate inlet opening, but it should be
enough.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken_Hitchmough(at)magic.ca (Ken Hitchmough) |
| Subject: | Re: F>I. alternate air |
Scott, you wrote:
"So I don't think your F.I. installation warrants an alt air door any more
than a carb installation. . "
Actually thats not really true unless you put the carb heat on.
I think the tendency is not to include carb heat because of the lower susceptibility
of F.I. to
icing. The problem is that it is STILL possible for the filter to get blocked with
ice and without
hot air or alt air, you're screwed.
Ken RV6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Cover |
Three possibilities to consider in attaching the trim plate or nuttplates and
screws to any thin material ( there are others )
- Dimple the cover plate. Use a doubler plate thick enough to install a hole
large enough to accept the countersink from the cover plate.
- They make specialt hardware for this situation. The screw head countersink
is much smaller and can be used on thin material without a countersunk
nutplate. I purchased hardware from " Genuine Aircraft Hardware" . Seems to
me I remember Mr. Barnard also carries some hardware for this situation as
well. See the Yellar Pages. I could not find anyone who carried or made a
countersunk #6 nutplate
- Install shims underneath the nutplate attach rivets to add sufficient depth
that you can dimple the doubler plate or just enlarge the hole as in
suggestion 1.
Hope this helps a little
Tom Brown - RV4 - CCCCanopy drillllling !!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Hinge Dimentions |
| From: | lm4(at)juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
><< Does anyone know if there any info on the dimensions to set the
rudder hinge rod ends?
Go to sheet 6 at the lower left corner and see the plan view of the
rudder and stab spars. they are calling spar/spar clearance of
2" at the tip and 1-3/4" at the root. Been there-done that.
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
To all who requested the Harbor Freight HVLP spray gun part number,
here it is: 35787 HVLP Gravity Spray Gun $59.99
It is a nicely anodized red gun with a gravity fed paint pot complete
with regulator. It works well with 10-15 psi at the nozzle. Very little
over spray. I honestly use 1/2 of the material I did with the small
touch up gun.
Ed Cole
RV6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
<< I saw this on George's video and I was concerned that if there was a
exhaust
leak it would feed into the heater duct.
Is this a 'real' concern? (I haven't mounted my engine yet so I'm not sure
if the exhaust pipes get anywhere near the air path.) >>
I suppose that there is some additional risk that oil leaks near the cylinder
barrel might be burned, producing CO which could enter the ducts if you place
them low on the fins, but you probably don't want to allow leaks here,
regardless.
You are using the exhaust pipe for the heat source, so you must be close to
the exhaust system anyway. Get the Vetterman Stainless steel exhaust system,
install, maintain and inspect it properly and you should be fine.
As a precaution you should also have a CO detector in the cabin, they're
cheap insurance.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
>>
>> I was about to cough up $100 for a HVLP Spray gun when I saw
>> Avery's "mini" gun with the paper cup. Has anyone used it? Is
>> it as handy as it is avdertised to be?
Docken Guns
The guns that are plastic must be avoided. I think most peoples
experience with them are bad. The metal ones that have a plastic cup
holder are fine. the cup can be bent/crimped around the top to hold
them on better, but are still in danger of being knocked off while
spraying. A heavy rubber band will help if you are going into awkward
places. Don't fill them completely if spraying at an angle.
The advantage of clean up is very good as not much solvent need be
used on the gun and the cup is thrown away after a few uses.
The cups are quite expensive if purchased from aircraft supply
vendors, but cheap if purchased from a cup supplier. I bel;ieve they
are "Sweetheart" 16WNI or 29-294 unwaxed cups.
We use them extensively for "quicky" paint jobs as they will do a
passible job if some experience is gained in using them, as well as
priming.
Small cups like one sees in fast food places for ketchup make great
measuring cups for small batches of paint especially where something
needs to be combined and mixed such as epoxy primer. A old drill
(variable speed) with a small mixer attached then makes through mixing
right in the Sweetheart cup easy.
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of interesting stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Hey listers: Kelli and I are happy to announce that on the 24th of November,
our RV-4, N232 Suzie Q took to the air for the first time. (My first post
didn't make it to the list.) After 6+ years of building, Test Flight #1
went without a hitch. Other than the Right Rudder Blues (I should have
offset the vertical another 1/4 inch) it flew like a dream. What a sweet
flying airplane! I have never flown an unfamiliar airplane that felt so
familiar on the first flight.
I stuck to my flight card (except at 2000 rpm it wanted to go 120 mph and my
limit for first flight was going to be 100) and flew 45 problem-free
minutes, going through the list. Landing (yikes) was no problem
(taildragger pilot).
Flight testing details to follow as I needed that type of inspiration when I
was building (you mean this thing will some day actually FLY??) and to help
builders start thinking about what they have to do after the building stops
(although it NEVER does).
Some preliminary thoughts:
*Stay current or get current. 'Nuff said.
*Get some time IN TYPE with someone who knows their airplane. This is a
great flying airplane but is very different from what you are probably used
to. It feels very solid in flight but the difference in control feel when
slowed down makes it feel like you are falling out of the air even though
the airplane is VERY controlable at slow speeds. Do a bunch of slow flight
and stalls during your familiarization flights. Feel the control inputs at
different airspeeds: turns, climbs, etc. Don't just fly around. Make slow
flight turns at altitude similar to what you would make in a landing approach.
*"Fly" your airplane as soon as you can sit in the cockpit. Sound silly? I
had a lot of "time" logged just becoming familiar with what the front office
felt like and where all the controls/instruments were (I can find everything
with my eyes closed). The first flight will be from a place you are familar
with which seemed to help A LOT. (Got a lot of strange looks from people who
caught me flying in the garage, though).
*I applied a "flight attitude indicator" on the canopy (with pinstripe tape)
to help identify 1)three-point attitude; 2)level flight attitude; 3)30
degree bank left and right; 4)45 degree banks. I think this really helped.
It's hard to guess a bank angle. I knew what level flight attitude was. I
knew where tail down attitude was on landing.
*Flight cards. I have a plan for every flight I am going to take. The
plans will probably change as testing goes along and I may do several cards
on one flight but I know what I want to accomplish on every test flight.
Also helps with documentation and getting everything done you want to get done.
*Don't attract a crowd. I had several people who have followed this project
from near inception who wanted to be there for the first flight and I hated
to disappoint them but it was suddenly time to fly: good day, no wind, felt
right, no distractions. And they all understood (I think, anyway).
Enough for now, more later, if this seems helpful.
KEEP BUILDING!!
Michael
N 232 Suzie Q (Flying!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: I made the decision, I ordered the second |
airplane kit ...
>Therefore, I placed my order for the RV8A. (after all, how could I pass up
VANS >discount for repeat builders ?) . I can't wait to start riveting again ...
Scott: Good for you!! Put all those lessons you learned on the first one to
good use. But.......what discount for repeat offenders?
(NOT that I am thinking of anything, Kelli [my rivet-driving wife]. Just
asking. I know: two year hiatus on building.)
Michael
RV-4 232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Installing flaps |
>RV-4 builders: While installing my flaps I ran into a problem. The
aluminum >plate on the inboard end of each flap scrapes the side of the
>fuselage when traveling to the up position. I have measured everything I
>can think of; I can't find any deviation from the plans dimensions.
Hey, Tom: I ran into the same problem and, if you search the archives, you
won't like the answer. I drilled out the outboard rib and reset it inboard
about one rib width or so (enough that the old rivet holes did not show).
Unfortunatly, this means you will have to drill out the hinge and re-rivet a
new half on as this screws up the allignment of the flap with respect to the
aileron. I tried everything else first and there was no other option. They
fit great after the small modification. I tried the file-the-plate method
and countersunk rivets and was still not satisfied with the clearance.
I then posted a suggestion: leave the hinge and last rib off until fitting
the flap to the wing, wing installed on the aircraft.
Good luck; keep building.
Michael
RV-4 232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "I THINK, THEREFORE YOU ARE" <PKIRKPATRICK(at)FAB9.intel.com> |
| Subject: | FUEL TANK LEAK CHECKING |
Greetings,
This is a long post but I think its good info for the ones not here yet or just
chicken like me. Plus I promised the proseal gods that I would pay hommage if
there no leaks in my fuel tanks, I hope this counts.
After I built my tanks and finished the wings I kinda pushed them off to the
side and decided I would leak check them just before final assy of the wings
to the fuse. Last night I finally got the courage up to leak check my fuel
tanks. Since my fuse is on hold ( pending a job change mabey ) and everything
had been going good all day long I took the plunge. The way I did it is sort of
a combo of things I learned here. The whole procedure takes less than an hour
assuming no leaks.
1. Tape off the vent lines with duct tape.
2. Tape over the fuel filler holes with duct tape.
3. Get a balloon ( stretch it out or blow it up first ) and put it over the
fuel pickup fitting. If you use a smaller ballon it fits tight enough to
seal ok.
4. Set the regulator on your air compressor to about 10 PSI (dont panic hear me
out). If the 10 PSI isn't enough for the next step, increase it a little and
try again.
5. Using one of the blow off guns with the vent holes on the sides, push it
against the drain valve so it opens and pull the trigger.The vent holes on
the sides of the nozzel will make sure the pressure doesn't get too high in
the tank. Most of the air escapes through the holes. Watch the balloon! as
soon as it reaches the point where it starts to swell quickly pull the air
off. The balloon will continue to fill for a second on the pressure in the
tank.
* Before the flames start from the above step think about it. Only a slight
amount of pressure is getting into the tank to begin with because of the
nozzel holes of the blow off gun and the ballon acts as a safety device. It
will blow off way before the pressure in tank even starts to flex the skins
enough to cause a problem ( remember the g forces these tanks are made to
take with much heavire fuel in them).
6. Let it sit a minute and listen for gross leaks. If the balloon is holding
its size go to the next step. If not, fix the big leaks.
7. Carry the whole contraption outside, or if the weather is cold to the
shower. By the way, the wife loved this one and got a picture of her
husband showering with his plane for the log book. I hope it wasn't for the
judge.
8. Start spraying down the tank with soapy water mixed in one of those spray
bottles you get at K-Mart or steal your daughters. Just look for the bubbles.
To make sure everything is working right, you will have some bubbles around
the ballon, and duct taped parts. Spray down all of the rivets and end plates
(even my permatex #2 around the gaskets and screws didn't leak).
9. If you find a leak, rinse and dry the place then mark it with a sharpie
and continue on. When your done rinse the whole thing off with the shower
sprayer and dry it with one of the wifes GOOD towels because we don't want
to scratch up our shiny new tanks. Take off the duct tape.
As for the fuel caps, good luck they are not made to be air tight and I will
cross that problem when I put fuel into the tanks and see if it is really a
problem. Don't fear the water and soap on the tanks, the pressure from the
balloon will keep it out if there is a small leak.
I guess I was lucky. I had no leaks on either tank. I am not worthy.
Pat Kirkpatrick
RV-6A Rio Rancho, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>>Place pickup 2" diameter flanges as low as possible on the rear
>baffles so the air is already slightly warmed before it gets to the
muff.
>
>I saw this on George's video and I was concerned that if there was a
>exhaust leak it would feed into the heater duct.
>Is this a 'real' concern? (I haven't mounted my engine yet so I'm not
Royce, I wouldn't worry about it. The intake flange is still in the
positive pressure area even though it is somewhat close to the exhaust
port on the cylinder. Any leak at the exhaust port is on the low
pressure side of the cooling air and will flow down and away from the
cylinder. I don't see any way the gas leak could fight it's way up past
the cooling air into the pressure area of the plenum.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More questions |
As i was considering the question of which to build, an RV6 or 6A, some other
questions came to mind. I know the answers to some of these questions but I
wanted to cross check them with other, more wise heads.
<<
Things to ponder -----------------
If a mute swears, does his mother wash his hands with soap?
If someone with multiple personalities threatens to kill himself, is it
considered a hostage situation?
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled a them would they still
grow, only to be troubled and insecure?
Isn't it a bit unnerving that doctors call what they do "practice"?
Why do they report power outages on TV?
What should you do when you see an endangered animal that is eating an
endangered plant?
Is it possible to be totally partial?
Would a fly that loses it wings be called a walk?
If the funeral procession is at night, do folks drive with their headlights
off?
If the cops arrest a mime, do they tell him he has the right to remain
silent?
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest?
When sign makers go on strike, is anything written on their signs?
Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all"?
Why isn't there mouse-flavored cat food?
If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?
If a stealth bomber crashes in a forest, will it make a sound?
If a man speaks in the forest and there is no woman to hear him, is he
still wrong?
If a turtle loses his shell, is it naked or homeless?
Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?
Should vegetarians eat animal crackers?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
AND MY FAVORITE - What's another word for synonym?
Gene francis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
> Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing
> spar and using the Avery C tool. I am getting a slight gap (.020")
> between the W606A spar and the W606C web.
I wonder whether the problem is that your spar is bouncing when you
whack the Avery tool? Try weighting the spar and tool so that they can't
move.
I didn't have any success with the Avery tool, and eventually rivetted
the wing using a 5X gun.
Can you please email me (or post to the list) the solution to your
rivetting problems so that I can add it to the Bunny's Guide. Thanks.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Noel E Drew <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Duckworks landing light |
I have been reading the comments on the Duckworth lights with interest and would
like to offer my 2 pence.
I will start by saying that I was very happy with the way the kit went together
and it gave me a very satisfactory installation. What is not possible however
is a smooth joint between the metal skin and the surface of the plexiglas.
The plexiglas may be snug against the inside surface but there is still at least
a 1/32" step to the outside surface at a point on the airfoil where anything
that induces flow separation, particularly outboard, should be avoided.
Theory such as this can no doubt play tricks on the imagination but after a smear
of silicone glue was used to smooth the top joint, the wing on that side showed
less inclination to drop in the stall.
Just a thought.
Regards,
Noel Drew
ZU-APF RV6 150 hours and still no others flying in South Africa.
noeldrew(at)iafrica.com
n As a satisfied user of the Duckworth's light I would like to add my
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Fairings |
I have just finished installing the gap fairing on my left wing and was wondering
what you guys thought about gluing the fairings to the top skin instead of rivets.
Pro Seal or silicon sealer could be used. Sure would be a lot easier.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A S/N 22993
tle heat until the oil temp came up.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A S/N 22993
Finishing wings/starting Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
George McNutt wrote:
>
> Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing spar and
> using the Avery C tool. I am getting a slight gap (.020") between the W606A
> spar and the W606C web. Drilled out rivets and tried again using bolts
> through adjacent holes on each side of rivet to hold everything together,
> but still not happy with results.
>
I had the same problem when I used the Avery C tool to mash the big spar rivets.
I
was working alone and found that the problem was that there was to much rebound
of
the spar after each blow of the hammer, thus causing the distortion (I think).
As
I said I did this with no help. I was using 25 lb bags of lead shot as my extra
set of hands. Adding a couple more bags to the spar on each side (3bags total each
side) of the C tool and a couple on the tool itself worked for me. The lead shot
bags really dampen the rebound. I used a 3 pound hammer and it took 3 blows per
rivet. I also found that the longer rivets at the root were easier to mash than
the shorter ones near the tip.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A S/N 22993
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Field Lengths |
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
I'd like to add to the comments that I also believe that a field of
700-800 ft is too short for routine operations. Some time ago I did
some work on the variability possible in takeoffs and landings by
experienced pilots. Landings have a greater variability to them than
takeoffs and grass fields have greater variability to them than hard
surfaced runways. The way this variability is dealt with is to have a
field length much greater than the "best" performance an aircraft can
demonstrate.
A key question is whether there are obstacles under the takeoff and
landing path. Airfield length determinations usually assume there is a
50' obstacle. If there isn't, then this is an allowance for
variability.
On takeoff, variability comes from altitude, temperature, wind and
gusts, runway surface resistance, flap setting, weight, unstick speed,
climb speed and pilot reaction time. If you make some effort you can
determine the effect of most of these on the takeoff distance, as is
done for transport aircraft. The two that are difficult to quantify are
runway surface condition and winds if they are gusty crosswinds. While
there are instruments to do this conditions can vary from point to point
on the grass and soft wet turf has a lot of rolling resistance. To the
above you would add the need strict speed discipline. Also an overrun
area should be available if, on takeoff, you are not off the ground when
you should be.
Landings are even more variable. There is of course wind, weight and
weather, but the primary factor is approach speed. It should be as low
as possible yet still allow for the required landing manoeuvres and
gusts. This is usually between 1.22 and 1.3 Vs. RVs seem to approach
at more than this, perhaps because the low aspect ratio give high
induced drag. Varying speed 10% varies landing distance by 20%, if I
recall, Then the steepest approach is used to minimize airborne
distance and the aircraft must pass over the obstacle at the required
height. A visual approach slope indicator (VASIS) helps to keep on the
flight path, even a homemade one. Flares should be as tight as the
gear will comfortably accomodate. Full brakes are used, but grass
braking friction is unpredictable, especially when wet. Any reaction
time delays at 50 mph add about 70 ft to distance. Given the above,
for skilled transport pilots, 67% is added to best distance for field
length.
When all is said and done the best way to determine field length for
occasional pilots is to see what people use day to day. Most fields
are at least 2000' or so. At 2000' I think I would have a good margin
to accomodate the above. At 1500' I'd start paying a lot of attention to
the above. At 1000' it would have all my attention!
Bear in mind also that flight testing an unfamiliar aircraft with
uncalibrated instruments poses extra risks and I would be concerned that
even if experienced STOL pilots could use the field, unwise and less
experienced pilots might be tempted to do so.
I'm sure this is more than anyone wants to know about setting field
length, but I hope some of it is helpful.
ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
---
{ Presentation of the preceding message was made possible by Flight 642 }
{ BBS. Canada's Aviation and Simulation connection. (905)642-2993 }
{ WEB Page: http://www.flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> George McNutt wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing
> spar and
> > using the Avery C tool. I am getting a slight gap (.020") between
> the W606A
> > spar and the W606C web. Drilled out rivets and tried again using
> bolts
> > through adjacent holes on each side of rivet to hold everything
> together,
> > but still not happy with results.
> >
>
> I had the same problem when I used the Avery C tool to mash the big
> spar rivets. I
> was working alone and found that the problem was that there was to
> much rebound of
> the spar after each blow of the hammer, thus causing the distortion
> (I think). As
>
I also had the same problem and I used a homemake "armstrong powered"
bench squeezer. I worried about it for 3 days and finally called vans
thinking I would have to rebuild my wing spars. They said not to worry,
it was typical when riveting out toward the end of the wing.
My advice is: after you have made a reasonable attempt to clamp the
pieces together, and have installed the rivet with a C-frame/hammer or a
Big rivet gun/bar or a homemade squeezer, and the rivet sets correctly,
don't worry about the slight deformation between the pieces that result
in a 0.020" gap.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
Gary Zilik
<< Is there any good reason that you could not pull heated air off the oil
cooler... ....
Usually it is necc. to stop the air flow to the oil cooler or at least
drastically reduce it during winter months to maintain oil temps. So this is
most likely not an option.
Steve
Schmitz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "I THINK, THEREFORE YOU ARE" <PKIRKPATRICK(at)FAB9.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Small paint/primer jobs |
I have to jump in and give my 2 cents on the small primer jobs. I've been using
a middle of the line badger air brush. They run about $60 and come with a
couple of glass jars with lids. They are easy to use and take about 2 minutes
to clean up. If you are using a primer which has a decent pot life (variprime
is 2 weeks in the refrigerator) just put a lid on the jar and store it. to
clean the airbrush, I have a 2 oz jar filled with acetone and I just spray a
little through the gun to clean the needle when I am finished. Don't worry too
much about buildup on the air chamber as long as the airbrush still works. I
dissaemble the airbrush every few weeks (takes less than a minute) and leave
the parts in acetone until I am ready to use it again. Putting it back together
and adjusting it only takes a few minutes.
Use the number 5 tip and needle which comes with the kit. This works great and
is controllable enough to touch up scratches without getting primer everywhere
once the pieces are rivited together. To mix up the primer after it has been
sitting for a while, let the jar warm up and shake it until it is well mixed.
I set my air compressor regulator to between 20 and 40 PSI depending on the
amount of primer I want to deliver. Another trick is to use a Q-Tip to touch up
scratches straight from the jar of stored primer. You can also get different
sizes jars up to about 4 ounces from any good hobby store.
Just my .02 worth,
Pat Kirkpatrick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
<< Hey listers: Kelli and I are happy to announce that on the 24th of
November,
our RV-4, N232 Suzie Q took to the air for the first time. >>
YES-S-S-S-S-S-S!!! I'll bet that grin couldn't be removed with a hammer &
chisel. Congratulations.
"Amazing. It DOES fly!"
...And you change from sheetmetal worker to crewchief, and switch between
crewchief & pilot. At least, the crewchief knows exactly what to fix after
the test flights. It sounds like your test program will be above average.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: RV Field Lengths |
Hi all,
When my Debonair was based at Palo Alto, I regularly turned off at the first
exit which was 600 feet from the threshold. PAO is altitude 5 I believe tho the
saltwater has flooded the runway at times. Note I say regularly, not always.
Seriously, with all the Chevy installations out there, isn't anyone disappointed
with theirs to want to sell it?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- WANTED TO BUY - a used Chevy V-6 setup.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----------
> From: George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com>
> To: RV-LIST
> Subject: RV-List: Spar Rivets
> Date: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 1:49 AM
>
>
> Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing spar
and
> using the Avery C tool. I am getting a slight gap (.020") between the
W606A
> spar and the W606C web.
> George McNutt, Langley BC
> -6A wing spars
I also had slight gaps in my W606C and W606A. I used a pneumatic squeezer
and a good clamping system. I was able to insert 0.003 and 0.004 feeler
gauge leaves all the way in to the rivet stem at a total 7 different rivets
in the two wing spars. This is unacceptable by MIL-R-47196A(MI) 4.2.1.g,
and all commonly published guides to riveting defects.
I called Builder's Assistance and Van himself later called me back owing
to the potentially dangerous structural weakening of the spar.
Van allowed that somehow the geometry of the spar causes these gaps to
occur in some instances. He said that he did not approve of such gaps but
that they were probably OK in view of my measurements. That week (6-26-95)
I saw two postings of the problem on AOL's RV Forum. I then measured a
couple of spars of fellow builders and noted the same gaps. I believe many
builders have these gaps but are not aware of them.
A 0.020 gap is huge!
Dennis 6A fuselage roll bar
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
If the Chevy setup is the bargain priced alternative to Lycoming that OMABP,
Richard Finch, etc... claim it to be, why do you need to find a used one?
When I first investigated the Belted Air package (about 1 1/2 years ago)
price was quoted as "around $7000". Last price I heard was $10,000 to
$11,000. Has anyone on the list bought this package, and does anyone know
what the real price is?
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings done, although it sounds like I may be rebuilding the root end
of my flaps;saving for fuse)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>Hi all,
>Seriously, with all the Chevy installations out there, isn't anyone
disappointed
>with theirs to want to sell it?
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- WANTED TO BUY - a used Chevy V-6 setup.
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
>
>Hey listers: Kelli and I are happy to announce that on the 24th of
>November,
>our RV-4, N232 Suzie Q took to the air for the first time.
Congratulations, Michael! Keep those first flight postings coming to
motivate the rest of us.
>I have never flown an unfamiliar airplane that felt
>so
>familiar on the first flight.
My sentiments exactly. I have flown two RV-4s, two RV-6s, and two RV-3s.
Each felt like an old friend from the first moment. I can't say that
about any other airplane.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 messing with the inboard flap ends >:-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | 6A Cabin Frame Screws |
Drawing 39 section A-A' shows a pair of 8R8 and 10R10 screws in the lower
cabin frame (roll bar) attachment.
Why are the 8R8 screws tapped? It seems to me that there is room for a nut
or a nutplate.
Dennis 6A fuselage cabin frame
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: chevy V6 installation (for sale??) |
Mike wrote:
> If the Chevy setup is the bargain priced alternative to Lycoming that OMABP,
> Richard Finch, etc... claim it to be, why do you need to find a used one?
Well, see if we can figure this out. Suppose a new Chevy V6 installation is
$12000. Suppose that I buy a used one from someone who (if there be such a
person on the planet!) is not happy with his setup and wants to sell it for
$6000. Suppose it has less than 100 hours on it from new. How much would I
save?
I might actaully tear the engine down just to be sure it is okay. I'm very
safety conscious even tho I am a kind of experimental guy, willing and ready to
hear all sides and try to be rational in evaluating what is said. I'd certainly
tear down a used Lycoming and I wouldn't take one at all that came from a
junkyard, even an airplane junkyard. How would I ever know if the rods or crank
have reached their fatigue life?
My idea is to spend about $6000 - maybe more, instead of $28,000 or even $12000.
I can completely overhaul the Chevy for under $1000 too. New pistons, rings,
valves, springs, lifters, camshaft, oil pump, water pump, and on and on!
The Chevy setup may not work out for me but I have many friends who do not
believe that homemade airplanes will work out either. Maybe I won't sell my
Debonair. Then again, maybe I'll put a Corvette V8 in it. Brand new, 350HP for
under $4000.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- WANTED TO BUY - a used Chevy V-6 setup.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Installing flaps |
Tom, I believe it was Tim Lewis who posted a procedure which I had also used
on my first RV-6A as this glitch is not limited to the -4. You can gain at
least an eighth inch by changing the spacers on the aileron to move it
outboard and then relocate the flap hinge to move the flap outboard also. Of
course you will also run into a couple of other problems if you plan to do
this. First, if you have already drilled the flap hinge, you will need
another hinge half. The push rod hole may have to be enlarged and the push
rod adjusted a little. And you will need to change the tip to aileron gap
clearance if the tip is already mounted at the proper spacing. Even after
that I had to file down one side of the flap attachment to keep it from
rubbing the side.
For those who have not completed the flaps for either the -4 or -6/-6A (don't
know about the -8), it would be wise to not drill the outboard flap rib to
either the skin or spar nor to drill the flap hinge until the wings have been
fitted on the fuselage. You can then shorten the flap as needed to fit
without interference. I know many of the -4 builders who have done this.
Surprised that it hasn't been on the list before. My QB flaps were already
drilled and riveted, so I didn't have that option. If the flap skins are
prepunched in the new kits, then this is obviously not possible to do on those
either.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Craig-Stearman)
RV-4 builders,
While installing my flaps on the airplane I ran into a problem. The
aluminum plate on the inboard end of each flap scrapes the side of the
fuselage when traveling to the up position. I have measured everything I
can think of, flap width, aileron to flap gap, etc., and I can't find any
deviation from the plans dimensions. Has anyone else run into this
problem? If so, how did you correct it?
Thanks,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
RV-4 complete airframe now! Engine next.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Cabin Frame Screws |
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
>
> Drawing 39 section A-A' shows a pair of 8R8 and 10R10 screws in the
> lower
> cabin frame (roll bar) attachment.
> Why are the 8R8 screws tapped? It seems to me that there is room for
> a nut
> or a nutplate.
>
> Dennis 6A fuselage cabin frame
> Barrington, IL
Dennis, I asked myself the same question at that point in building. I
believe the #8 screws are not structural and only hold the skin in
place. When you stop and think about it a threaded hole is just as good
as a nutplate or nut, just needs a little something on it to keep the
threads tight. If you can get a nut or nutplate in that location I dont
see any reason not to.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
>
>
> *"Fly" your airplane as soon as you can sit in the cockpit. Sound silly? I
> had a lot of "time" logged just becoming familiar with what the front office
> felt like and where all the controls/instruments were (I can find everything
> with my eyes closed). The first flight will be from a place you are familar
> with which seemed to help A LOT. (Got a lot of strange looks from people who
> caught me flying in the garage, though).
I agree wholeheartedly. "Visualizing" is a well-known training
technique in sports. I encouraged all of my flying students to
visualize flying--in detail--for an hour every day. I suspect
few of them actually did it, but the best ones did. Also, a
"blind flying" test--finding all the controls with your eyes
covered--is a really good idea.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
[-6 tail]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL TANK LEAK CHECKING |
> After I built my tanks and finished the wings I kinda pushed them off to the
> side and decided I would leak check them just before final assy of the wings
> to the fuse.
For another method of testing fuel tanks for leaks, see my Wing
Construction Notes parked behind the red RV-6A at
http://www.flash.net/~gila
Will Cretsinger
RV-6A Tilt canopy now drilled but not fastened
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing lights |
The lens purchased conformed to the outside radius. I heated the lens in
hot tap water and decreased the radius to conform to the inside. (very
little at a time)
----------
> From: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Duckworks landing lights
> Date: Monday, December 01, 1997 10:18 AM
>
>
> Joe,
> I used the Duckworks lights and as the instructions mentioned, I ground
down
> the backs of the two plastic retainer strips that hold the lens in the
> original lights, to hold the lights in their brackets. I think they look
> better than the washers. The washers that are used to attach the
brackets to
> the ribs worked out fine. The only complaint I have is that the plexi
lens
> don't conform very well to the shape of the leading edge. I used the
> strapping tape to pull the lens into the the opening but there were still
> some gaps. Does anyone have an idea on how to improve the fit?
>
>
> >Has anyone installed these lights in the wings?Following the
instructions I
> >
> used the template to cut out the holes in the wing. After this point
> >
> things became hazy. Oversized flat washers with counter sunk bolts just
> >
> dont make sense.
>
>
>
> Joel Harding RV-8 ab320flyer(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F>I. alternate air |
My -4 Has an IO-320 with Bendix. It has no air filter. Just a "U" shaped
duct that runs from the intake hole which has some fine mesh on it into the
U duct and there is a hinged door on the back with a weak magnet that holds
it shut. If it were to open it would swing shut again and auto reset. I
think this is a Pitts design.
If you have a filter the alt air needs to be downstream of the filter. If
you could find a small area that you could open up a small door and spring
load it or use a magnet....
DO NOT skip the alternate air! I had a Cassutt type with an Ellison and no
alt air. I swallowed a crepe paper ribbon (loooong story) and "rented the
farm".
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dr John Cocker <jcocker(at)medhumor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations, that great feeling only comes a few times per lifetime, so
treasure it.
A agree with the familiarity when flying the RV for the first timw. Maybe
it comes from sitting in the cockpit so long before the first flight.
The other thing I have not seen commented upon, it that the RV becomes very
stable when a foot or so off the ground. My theory is that the wing is so
low, that with flaps, the ground effect makes the wing almost self levelling.
Has anyone else noticed this - or am I a hot shot ? (Unlikely the latter)
John (107 hours since July)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
George McNutt wrote:
>
>
> Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing spar and
> using the Avery C tool.
I recommend renting the factory squeezer from Van...less noise and I
suspect it would solve your problem and give beautiful shop heads.
Will Cretsinger
Arlington, TX
RV-6A CANOPY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Fairings |
<< I have just finished installing the gap fairing on my left wing and was
wondering
what you guys thought about gluing the fairings to the top skin instead of
rivets.
Pro Seal or silicon sealer could be used. Sure would be a lot easier. >>
But if it came loose and jammed your aileron, it could really ruin your day.
IMO not worth the risk.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FUEL TANK LEAK CHECKING |
>
>Greetings,
>
>This is a long post but I think its good info for the ones not here yet
or just
>chicken like me. Plus I promised the proseal gods that I would pay
hommage if
>there no leaks in my fuel tanks, I hope this counts.
>7. Carry the whole contraption outside, or if the weather is cold to
the
> shower. By the way, the wife loved this one and got a picture of her
> husband showering with his plane for the log book. I hope it wasn't
for the
> judge.
>
EGADS!! What a sight!! Hey, Pat...PUHLLLEEEASE promise me I won't find
the pic on the bathroom bulletin...
>8. Start spraying down the tank with soapy water mixed in one of those
spray
> bottles you get at K-Mart or steal your daughters. Just look for the
bubbles.
Uh, steal your daughters? Hmm...got one of my own...too expensive. ;)
>As for the fuel caps, good luck they are not made to be air tight and I
will
>cross that problem when I put fuel into the tanks and see if it is
really a
>problem.
I'll try not to fly over yer house when I'm inverted...don't wanna rain
avgas on the lawn...
>Pat Kirkpatrick
>RV-6A Rio Rancho, NM
Thanks for the info, Pat..I'll archive your technique for my turn in the
Proseal hotseat. I'm fitting the wing skins now, the jig came out very
nice...all wood, and the plumb lines haven't budged...even after bonking
my noggin into a support arm....NOT fun. If you find yourself in DIRE
need of bucking rivets...you KNOW where I live...*grin*
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Installing flaps |
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe) |
On Tue, 2 Dec 97 01:32:03 UT "les williams"
writes:
snip
>on my first RV-6A as this glitch is not limited to the -4. You can
>gain at least an eighth inch by changing the spacers on the aileron to
move it
>outboard and then relocate the flap hinge to move the flap outboard
>also. Of course you will also run into a couple of other problems if
you plan
>to do this. First, if you have already drilled the flap hinge, you will
>need another hinge half. The push rod hole may have to be enlarged and
the
Great, since my flaps were built to the plans and finished, including
fitting to the wings, a long time ago I guess I can look forward to this
fun experience down the road... This is the kind of thing that makes it
hard to face the cold garage after work.
Bruce Stobbe
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Painting Gear Legs Before Fiberglassing? |
Listers,
It's time to put my RV-6A up on it's gear. Before I do that, I think
I have a couple of other jobs to do first, but I want to get opinions
from the list:
1. I think I need to remove the gear bracket (the weldment inside
the cockpit that holds the end of the gear legs) and paint it now so
I have paint between the weldment and the fuselage (corrosion
protection). The weldment is factory primed. Should I rough it up,
prime it again, and then paint it? If not, what's a good procedure?
2. I think I need to paint the landing gear legs at this point as
well. Soon I'll be attaching the wood stiffener and fairings, and I
don't think the factory primer is sufficient corrosion protection in
the long run. I'm planning to use a white epoxy spray paint (from
hardware store cans probably). I don't care about an exact color
match with my final paint (not selected yet) because the gear will
be covered by fiberglass and fairings. My plan is to rough up the
existing primer, prime it again (rustoleum), then hit it with the
white epoxy. Any comments or ideas?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
STILL unpacking from the move to VA, gotta get back to work on the
plane!!!
------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023
Springfield VA
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net or
timrv6a(at)iname.com
------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anthony Self" <CHEVY_TRUCK(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Grass runways??? |
I made the original post a few days ago and thought the list was down. I did
reply to some of you off-list, but I thought I'd say thanks for all the advice
to everyone else at once.
Well, the overwhelming opinion has been that a 1000 ft. strip isn't really
long enough. Although, there are a few brave ones out there. Another big
problem with my land is that there are electric lines on both sides, so I am
quickly giving up on the idea of my own strip and hangar at home. Even with a
neighbor giving me an easement, I still have those power lines in the way.
Whose crazy idea was it to string all that wire up there in our way? Unless, I
can get the electric company to come out and bury all the lines (fat chance of
that), guess I'm stuck with $50/month for an outdoor spot at the airport.
Thanks for the advice.
Anthony K. Self CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
Hopefull starting RV6A this spring!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
<348511DD.EA27DCA3(at)bewellnet.com>
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Hi Gary
There was an article about using the oil cooler for cabin heat in a
recent RVator. It motivated me to try it on my 4. Tried it for the first
time last week on a trip to NJ with the Temp. in the 30's. It worked
great, It's a nice soft heat, not scorching like exhaust heat but I would
think that most drafts would have to be eliminated as they are in my
bird.
One note: It's a lot easier to do this when building the plane than it is
to retrofit it later.
It sure eliminates any worries about CO from the heat muff.
Bill Davis RV4 N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
charset="us-ascii"
Try thin diameter PVC. I know, it may sound crazy, but I have it running
through my Paper Recycling plant. I have a whole network of the stuff
running through the ceiling, carrying air as far a 300 ft to the back room,
and everywhere in between. It doesn't leak, even after about 5 years, and
there is no noticable pressure loss. I am running a huge compressor (30hp),
but even a small compressor should do the trick in a garage. You could have
a few attach points, so you don't have to drag hose all over the place to do
different things. As far as I know, my maintenance guy used regular PVC
glue. I'll find out on Monday.
Maurice Colontonio
Cherry Hill, NJ
>
> I am in the final stages of finishing my garage and need advice
what
>type of air lines to install. I like to have 3 outlets (each side and in
>the ceiling {9 ft high}). Aprx. 50 ft total line.
> I understand rubber hoses are cheap and easy to install.
> Metal tubing requires considderable more work (pipe cutting and
>threating) and are expensive.
> What is the longevity of rubber vs tubing?
>What size tubing is normally used? Is there significant pressure loss with
>a standard rubber hose?
> I have a Sears 3.5 (15 gl) oilfree (= NOISY) compressor which I
will
>located outside (in a little enclosure or shed) to reduce noise. Any
>experience with type of lining for compressor shed? WouId egg cartons
>(linig the inside walls of the compressor shed) work?
>
>Thanks in advance for your input!
>Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
>
>Lothar* K.|| Denver, CO || NOW finishing FLUGHAUS (=carriagehouse)
>|| loocking for RV- 6 JIG || ready to jig soon ||| *(pron'd: "low-TARR")
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pmartin Compaq" <Pmartin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | rv8 empennage tips and fuel tank senders |
my name is dick martin. I am new to computers but am experienced in
building airplanes. I am building an rv8 and have completed the empennage,
wings, and am now well along on construction of the fuselage.
I had spare time while
waitning for my wing kit, so i built formed aluminum tips for the
empennage. Persons interested in this technique,please contact me for
info. I was dissatisfied with the current offerings of fuel gauges and
senders. I wanted to use and Electronics Int. FL-2c instrument but i did
not like the resistance senders because they are never accurate. With the
help of the engineers at Electronics Int. we have designed a capacitance
type fuel level sender that is simple and is super accurate and can be
built for about 20.00. I am building my rv8 light and i already have
obtained an lycoming IO360A1B6 engine. I hope to give Dave Anders a run
for his money. I may be reached by phone at 920 432 4845 mornings
cst time only.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net> |
| Subject: | wing spar rivets |
Dear Fellow Listers,
After reading all the postings on the riveting problems of the main
wing spars, I had to go to my
shop and look at my wing spars. I was looking for the .020 gaps that
were being described. I did
not find any and I really did not think I had any to begin with. I had
never heard anything about
these gaps and was surprised to read about them.
I built my own spars and thought they came out very well. I also used
the "caveman method" of
setting # 6 rivets with the Avery "C" frame tool and a four pound
single jack. The procedures that
was not mentioned in any of the postings, was bolting the spar
together with the AN bolts provided
in the wing kit and "you provide" temporary nuts. I also want to
mention that the # 6 rivets provided
in the kit were not all the correct length. I had to cut to size many of
the # 6 rivets to get an EXACT
one and one half times the diameter length on the rivets. I used dial
indicating calipers to get an
exact length on the rivets. I have found that unless these rivets were
to an exact length there is a
possibilty for trouble in setting these rivets. Another possible cause for
these gaps might be in not
jigging the spar straight before setting the rivets. Make sure the spar
is straight before setting the
rivets. I hope my experience will help another builder, who is thinking
about how he or she might
rivet the main spar together.
P.S. I made perfect shop heads as measured with the Avery rivet
guages in there catalog.
Craig Nelson
RV-6 serial # 25101
cgn(at)pond.net
Eugene, OR
left wing finished, skinning right wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
>
>If the Chevy setup is the bargain priced alternative to Lycoming that OMABP,
>Richard Finch, etc... claim it to be, why do you need to find a used one?
>When I first investigated the Belted Air package (about 1 1/2 years ago)
>price was quoted as "around $7000". Last price I heard was $10,000 to
>$11,000. Has anyone on the list bought this package, and does anyone know
>what the real price is?
I thought that I read somewhere that the Chevy Vortac block that is
commonly used isn't available new anymore. The new Chevy Vortec block are
set at 90 degrees instead of 60 degrees (or maybe vice-versa)
You also have to replace the stock cam with a marine use cam. At
Copperstate, I talked to Jess and he said that the firewall forward package
for the RV-6a was not available yet, but should be in early 1998.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anthony Self" <CHEVY_TRUCK(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | chevy V6 installation (for sale??) |
>My idea is to spend about $6000 - maybe more, instead of $28,000 or
>even $12000.
>I can completely overhaul the Chevy for under $1000 too. New pistons,
>rings,
>valves, springs, lifters, camshaft, oil pump, water pump, and on and on!
>
>The Chevy setup may not work out for me but I have many friends who do >not
>believe that homemade airplanes will work out either. Maybe I won't sell
>Hal Kempthorne
Hal,
I too want a Chevy setup and found a body shop locally that had two take-out
1997 Vortec V-6 engines. They were both low miles and were not harmed in the
wrecked cars. The guy wanted $1400 each, which sounded a little high to me, so
I called the Chevrolet Parts Dept. They said you can buy a brand new Vortec
long block, everything except intake, from the dealer for $1600-$1800,
depending on it's original application. That's still a lot of money, but you
know what you're getting this way. I plan on taking this route, and then find
an aftermarket fuel injection and ignition system, or possibly buy the rest of
the stuff from Belted Air Products. I think you can still come out of it all
with a brand new engine and still make it all fly for around $5000 -$6000.
Just my opinion though, but I'd like to hear other peoples Chevy ideas.
Anthony K. Self
CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
RV6A Someday...still dreamin'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
| Subject: | COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
Check the piping as some PVC tubing (drainage piping) is not rated for
1MPa (120psi) and could rupture at line pressure. (VERY LOUD)
Use PVC water supply pipe and you will get away with it as most of this
is rated for 2MPa (240psi) or just about anything else rated for water
line pressures (Polypropylene is also common).
Note with larger piping you can get away with a smaller tank on the
compressor but you will need to watch any leakage.
Supply line taps should go upwards out of the header to knockout any
moisture entrained in the air.
----------
From: MoeJoe[SMTP:moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net]
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 1997 3:37
Subject: Re: RV-List: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS
Try thin diameter PVC. I know, it may sound crazy, but I have it
running
through my Paper Recycling plant. I have a whole network of the stuff
running through the ceiling, carrying air as far a 300 ft to the back
room,
and everywhere in between. It doesn't leak, even after about 5 years,
and
there is no noticable pressure loss. I am running a huge compressor
(30hp),
but even a small compressor should do the trick in a garage. You could
have
a few attach points, so you don't have to drag hose all over the place
to do
different things. As far as I know, my maintenance guy used regular PVC
glue. I'll find out on Monday.
Maurice Colontonio
Cherry Hill, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Wing spar rivet press and 5point harness plans |
> I built my own spars and thought they came out very well. I also used
> the "caveman method" of
> setting # 6 rivets with the Avery "C" frame tool and a four pound
> single jack.
For those not wanting to pound in the #6 rivets, I have a copy of some
plans for a press which were sent to me at one time. They're available
at <http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/sparpre21.gif>.
Disclaimer: I haven't tried this press myself.
Also at the same site is 5ptr3.gif (someone's plans for the 5th point
needed for a 5-point harness).
Neither of these are my plans. I know I got them off the Net somewhere,
but can't recall where. If someone wants credit, drop me a line and I'll
be happy to acknowledge them.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
Just watch any oil leaks, I hope you included a drain.
----------
From: rvpilot(at)juno.com[SMTP:rvpilot(at)juno.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 1:04
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heater in 6A
Hi Gary
There was an article about using the oil cooler for cabin heat in a
recent RVator. It motivated me to try it on my 4. Tried it for the first
time last week on a trip to NJ with the Temp. in the 30's. It worked
great, It's a nice soft heat, not scorching like exhaust heat but I would
think that most drafts would have to be eliminated as they are in my
bird.
One note: It's a lot easier to do this when building the plane than it is
to retrofit it later.
It sure eliminates any worries about CO from the heat muff.
Bill Davis RV4 N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Michael: CONGRATULATIONS!!! Please keep these type of postings coming.There
are alot of us out here who are getting real close to that first flight and
would appreciate all the info you can provide.
Walt RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Returned mail: User unknown |
Pmartin(at)gbonline.com wrote:
> senders. I wanted to use and Electronics Int. FL-2c instrument but i did
> not like the resistance senders because they are never accurate. With
the
> help of the engineers at Electronics Int. we have designed a capacitance
> type fuel level sender that is simple and is super accurate and can be
> built for about 20.00.
Wow! This sounds great. Do you have any more information on these? Is
Electronics Int. on the Net? Who do write to to get a pair?
Frank.
PS: I tried emailing Pmartin directly, but it bounced (user unknown).
Are you there, Pmartin?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Fairings |
> << I have just finished installing the gap fairing on my left wing and
was
> wondering
> what you guys thought about gluing the fairings to the top skin instead
of
> rivets.
> Pro Seal or silicon sealer could be used. Sure would be a lot easier. >>
>
> But if it came loose and jammed your aileron, it could really ruin your
day.
> IMO not worth the risk.
>
> -GV
My thoughts exactly, especially since its not that hard to do (taking about
1 hour per wing to drill/dimple/rivet in place).
Rob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Small paint/primer jobs |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I entirely agree and prefer an airbrush for this type of
priming/painting.
Another advantage is when you start priming and painting parts made with
small diam. tubing such as the motor mount, canopy frame, RV-6A main gear
weldments , etc. you waste very little paint and make less of a mess
because it can be adjusted to a very small spray pattern for use on the
tubing.
Scott McDaniels N64SD / RV-6A 560+ Hrs.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
These ideas and opinions are my own and
do not necessarily represent the opinions of
my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
Just a little word about pressure and leaks from an industrial
instrument engineer.
The pressure differential would be insufficient to exclude exhaust
gasses from the ducts.
As an example I have worked on medium pressure ultra high purity
nitrogen systems ( ~ 2MPa) that were contaminated by pinhole leaks,
that would produce one bubble in 10 seconds, from the ambient air
working back into the line. The contamination levels were of the order
of 100PPM, normal levels <0.1PPM.
The molecular weight (and size) of Carbon Monoxide is smaller so the
effect would be even more noticeable.
I hope you are doing two important things:
1. Pressure testing your exhaust system in the muff area (with Helium
for preference but air will do). No leakage is acceptable.
2. Using a Carbon Monoxide warning tag.
----------
From: ebundy(at)juno.com[SMTP:ebundy(at)juno.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 4:11
Subject: Re: RV-List: Heater in 6A
>>Place pickup 2" diameter flanges as low as possible on the rear
>baffles so the air is already slightly warmed before it gets to the
muff.
>
>I saw this on George's video and I was concerned that if there was a
>exhaust leak it would feed into the heater duct.
>Is this a 'real' concern? (I haven't mounted my engine yet so I'm not
Royce, I wouldn't worry about it. The intake flange is still in the
positive pressure area even though it is somewhat close to the exhaust
port on the cylinder. Any leak at the exhaust port is on the low
pressure side of the cooling air and will flow down and away from the
cylinder. I don't see any way the gas leak could fight it's way up
past
the cooling air into the pressure area of the plenum.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
-
-+
-
-+
________________________________________________________________________________
<< it is STILL possible for the filter to get blocked with ice and without
hot air or alt air, you're screwed. >>
Who flies a light airplane in conditions so bad, that an air filter can get
blocked with ice? Seems to me, that one might consider such adverse
conditions, as a good signal not to go airborne.
Isn't it said, that the instruction necessary to get an instrument rating, is
basically designed to teach pilots that they shouldn't fly into conditions
like that?
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation |
I have been following the debate on the Chevy V6 installations, and must
offer my piece. I have worked for a prominent Chevrolet dealer as a
journeyman technician for the last 9 yrs. I don't think there's anything
you could say to convince me that leaving terra-firma in an aircraft powered
by a Chevrolet 4.3 liter V6 is a good idea. At least I hope you're talking
about the 4.3 and not the 2.8. You ought to be commited if you're speaking
of the latter. :-)
I am not saying that the 4.3 is a bad engine, because it's not. It is a
fine mill FOR A TRUCK!! It is a smooth running engine with counterbalance
shafts and the like, makes good power and is fairly compact. But it is not
without faults. In a Blazer or Pickup, an oil pump failure or a spun rod or
main bearing is a pain in the neck and a week without your vehicle. In an
aircraft (especially one you just sold out the previous 5 years of your life
to create) it is a MUCH larger problem. Possibly deadly... I look at the
pile of failed engine parts (and complete engines) in our warranty return
that resulted in a complete loss of power (ie: in on the hook) and the
thought of going airborne with that engine makes me shudder. And I am
talking about engines anywhere from brand new (0 miles) and up.
I am also not saying that Lycomings are immune to these things, but aircraft
engines are designed, built and assembled knowing that lives are on the line
with every revolution of the crankshaft. GM mass produces engines designed
specifically for "gravity bound" vehicles, and takes into account that some
will inevitably fail and need replacement-even with very low miles (hours).
An aircraft engine is stressed far less than an automobile engine as well.
Take an O-360 (360 cu. in.) with 180 horsepower; 1 horsepower per 2 cubic
inches. A 4.3 Vortec (265 cu. in.) with better than 200 hp; nearly 1 hp per
cu. in. I have a snowmobile that puts out as much hp as an O-320 with only
680 cc's. It's small and very light, but I would never consider flying it.
It's too highly stressed!!
I know I've spent an entire page preaching like a know-it-all. I would be
the first to admit it if proven wrong. I guess I just agree with Van's
statement that "the best conversion for an RV is to convert $8000 into a
used good used Lycoming aircraft engine." By the way, a Chevy truck IS an
outstanding product with an unparalleled warranty....
Jon Elford
RV-6A #25201
Finally a finished horizontal stab!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
index
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heater in 6A |
I tapped off of the front of the baffles on the inlet ramp so as to reduce
the possibility of getting bad air into the cockpit. I made the piccolo
tubes by taking a piece of .016 aluminum and making it into a tube 2 inches
in diameter. I drilled 1/2 holes for the outlets all along the tube, top and
bottom. This spreads the air out a lot.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Does anyone on the list know how to contact Dennis Jaynes of Trumann, AR?
The last E-mail address that I have for him goes unanswered.
Thanks,
Jim Cone
jamescone(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
Gentlemen - Thank You for your replies.
Based on replacing five rivets I believe my wing spar & web gap problem is
solved and I like the results so much that I am going to replace the rest
of the rivets that I had considered acceptable. - This long post is for
those who have not riveted their wing spars and may find the information
useful.
My origional posting below outlines the problem -
-------------------------------------------------
Just starting to rivet wing spar -6 rivets at outboard end of wing spar and
using the Avery C tool. I am getting a slight gap (.020") between the W606A
spar and the W606C web. Drilled out rivets and tried again using bolts
through adjacent holes on each side of rivet to hold everything together,
but still not happy with results.
Plans and pictures included with instructions show the -6 rivets facing aft
in the wing spar, this puts the factory head on the thinest piece of
material - and goes against the rule to put factory head on the thicker
material.
Previous posts about this problem occuring on the HS spar have recommended
turning the rivets around so factory head is on thicker metal, would this
suggestion also be ok on outboard end of wing spar (stn. 74 to 109) or does
anyone have other suggestions ?
--------------------------------------
Nine rv-list replies in 24 hours confirm this is a common and sometimes
unnoticed problem occuring when riveting the outboard portion of wing spars
with rivet gun, squeezer or Avery "C" tool.
The three items below gave me nice rivets with zero gap between the W606A &
W606C at the rivet itself and a maximum of .003" gap at one midpoint
between two reworked rivets (may be due to previous bending of W606C).
(1) Turn the rivet around so that the rivet factory head is on the thinner
metal, opposite to plans, but OK'd with John @ Vans.
(2) Check adjustment/alignment of base block on the Avery C tool, use long
shaft & 3/16 drill bit to align with hole in base block.
(3) Seat W606A spar and W606C web together after rivet is partially set.
Brian Eckstein gave me a clue when he recommended placing a 1/4" socket
over rivet and tapping the socket to seat the pieces together, I refined
this idea and made a seating block that works with the Avery C tool. Use a
scrap piece of aluminum about 3/4" wide X 1" long and 3/4" thick, drill a
1/4" hole part way through the block to sit over a partially set rivet.
MY PROCEDURE FOR SETTING OUTBOARD WING -6 RIVETS
Using Avery C tool and 3 lb. hammer, one person operation. Place factory
head of rivet in Avery C tool rivet set (use the 1.5" extension as
required) make sure no protrusions keeps rivet from sitting firmly in rivet
set. Level spar, tapered 2 X 4 lumber helps with small adjustments.
Use clamps or bolts in holes adjacent to rivet to tie everything together.
One hard or two medium blows with hammer to expand rivet diameter and
partially set rivet; raise C tool driver and place the aluminum
seating block over rivet; lower driver and give one medium blow to top of
seating block, this will drive parts together and the expanded rivet will
hold parts together; remove seating block; finish setting rivet.
OTHER INFO
Three hard blows or 5 - 6 medium blows will set 3/16 rivet using 3 lb
hammer 16" handle. No weights used to prevent spar bounce. Instead of
buying Avery Base Support Block for C tool I used a hardwood block screwed
under base. Rivet diameter increases about .010" when set.
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
6-A, Wing Spars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Belt Driven Vacuum pumps |
> I'm told that Isuzu uses a combination Alternator/Vaccum pump on the diesel
> versions of the Trooper. It should be a Nippondenso unit that is similar to
> many I've seen on Experimentals.
OK, stand up the smart*** down the back who said the Nippodenso
alternator sucks!
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 doing the fiddly bits before engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation |
>I have been following the debate on the Chevy V6 installations, and
must
>offer my piece. I have worked for a prominent Chevrolet dealer as a
>journeyman technician for the last 9 yrs. I don't think there's
anything
>you could say to convince me that leaving terra-firma in an aircraft
powered
>by a Chevrolet 4.3 liter V6 is a good idea. At least I hope you're
talking
>about the 4.3 and not the 2.8. You ought to be commited if you're
speaking
>of the latter. :-)
>
>I am not saying that the 4.3 is a bad engine, because it's not. It is
a
>fine mill FOR A TRUCK!! It is a smooth running engine with
counterbalance
>shafts and the like, makes good power and is fairly compact. But it is
not
>without faults. In a Blazer or Pickup, an oil pump failure or a spun
rod or
>main bearing is a pain in the neck and a week without your vehicle. In
an
>aircraft (especially one you just sold out the previous 5 years of your
life
>to create) it is a MUCH larger problem. Possibly deadly... I look at
the
>pile of failed engine parts (and complete engines) in our warranty
return
>that resulted in a complete loss of power (ie: in on the hook) and the
>thought of going airborne with that engine makes me shudder. And I am
>talking about engines anywhere from brand new (0 miles) and up.
>
>I am also not saying that Lycomings are immune to these things, but
aircraft
>engines are designed, built and assembled knowing that lives are on the
line
>with every revolution of the crankshaft. GM mass produces engines
designed
>specifically for "gravity bound" vehicles, and takes into account that
some
>will inevitably fail and need replacement-even with very low miles
(hours).
>An aircraft engine is stressed far less than an automobile engine as
well.
>Take an O-360 (360 cu. in.) with 180 horsepower; 1 horsepower per 2
cubic
>inches. A 4.3 Vortec (265 cu. in.) with better than 200 hp; nearly 1
hp per
>cu. in. I have a snowmobile that puts out as much hp as an O-320 with
only
>680 cc's. It's small and very light, but I would never consider flying
it.
>It's too highly stressed!!
>
>I know I've spent an entire page preaching like a know-it-all. I would
be
>the first to admit it if proven wrong. I guess I just agree with Van's
>statement that "the best conversion for an RV is to convert $8000 into
a
>used good used Lycoming aircraft engine." By the way, a Chevy truck IS
an
>outstanding product with an unparalleled warranty....
>
>Jon Elford
>RV-6A #25201
>Finally a finished horizontal stab!!!!
>
Thanks, Jon. I've been going over the pros and cons of the auto
conversion situation for months. What I really needed to hear was not
arm chair guesstimation..but experience over the long term service of
the Chevy engine. I drive a GMC 350 V-8...and LOVE that truck...but if
it fails on a mountain road..I'll just lay out the sleeping bag in the
bed, and sleep on it...won't have to find a stretch of runway in the
middle of the forrest!
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | RV MODELS/WEATHER VANE |
My pilot shed (=building to build an 6A) is getting its final touches. Does
anybody know where I can get an RV weather van and/or 6A model?
Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
Lothar* K.|| Denver, CO || (303) 922-2329 || installing electric/radiant
floor hook up in the new PILOT SHED (~carriagehouse)|| loocking for RV- 6
JIG ||| *(pron'd: "low-TARR")
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Gap Fairings |
<< I have just finished installing the gap fairing on my left wing and was
wondering
what you guys thought about gluing the fairings to the top skin instead of
rivets.
Pro Seal or silicon sealer could be used. Sure would be a lot easier.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A S/N 22993
>>
I've posted this before, but it sounds like it's a bit late for you, Gary.
The gap seal will reach the rear spar, if not trimmed. You can use the rear
spar rivets to hold the thing in place, thus eliminating the row of rivets
aft of the spar. This makes for a cleaner installation.
In your case, I'd use proseal, or some of that 3M structural tape, probably
the 20 mil stuff.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation |
Why would someone try to modify a great aircraft against the designers
recommendation?
---------- insert ----------
A WORD ABOUT ENGINES:
Vans recommends Lycoming aircraft engines ONLY. This
is not because we make vast profits
selling them (our markup is very small) but because
we have yet to find an alternative that
approaches the Lycoming in reliability, weight,
performance or, all things considered, price.
---------- end insert ---------
The above info was copied from:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/sections/cat-engi.htm
In 40 hours of RV-6 flying, I have been able to duplicate (or exceed) all
the performance that Van advertises. Top speed to date has been 235 mph,
stall 48 mph, economy cruise 184 mph @ 6 gph = 30 mpg. 75% power cruise
is 190 mph at 8.55 gph. Take off from airport at 1,440 feet MSL and
level off at 10,000 MSL 8.6 Nm from the airport without trying. Have
flow VFR on top on one flight for 1.5 hours. Speeds and distances
verified by GPS.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
writes:
>
>
>
>
>>I have been following the debate on the Chevy V6 installations, and
>must
>>offer my piece. I have worked for a prominent Chevrolet dealer as a
>>journeyman technician for the last 9 yrs. I don't think there's
>anything
>>you could say to convince me that leaving terra-firma in an aircraft
>powered
>>by a Chevrolet 4.3 liter V6 is a good idea. At least I hope you're
>talking
>>about the 4.3 and not the 2.8. You ought to be commited if you're
>speaking
>>of the latter. :-)
>>
>>I am not saying that the 4.3 is a bad engine, because it's not. It
>is
>a
>>fine mill FOR A TRUCK!! It is a smooth running engine with
>counterbalance
>>shafts and the like, makes good power and is fairly compact. But it
>is
>not
>>without faults. In a Blazer or Pickup, an oil pump failure or a spun
>
>rod or
>>main bearing is a pain in the neck and a week without your vehicle.
>In
>an
>>aircraft (especially one you just sold out the previous 5 years of
>your
>life
>>to create) it is a MUCH larger problem. Possibly deadly... I look
>at
>the
>>pile of failed engine parts (and complete engines) in our warranty
>return
>>that resulted in a complete loss of power (ie: in on the hook) and
>the
>>thought of going airborne with that engine makes me shudder. And I
>am
>>talking about engines anywhere from brand new (0 miles) and up.
>>
>>I am also not saying that Lycomings are immune to these things, but
>aircraft
>>engines are designed, built and assembled knowing that lives are on
>the
>line
>>with every revolution of the crankshaft. GM mass produces engines
>designed
>>specifically for "gravity bound" vehicles, and takes into account
>that
>some
>>will inevitably fail and need replacement-even with very low miles
>(hours).
>>An aircraft engine is stressed far less than an automobile engine as
>well.
>>Take an O-360 (360 cu. in.) with 180 horsepower; 1 horsepower per 2
>cubic
>>inches. A 4.3 Vortec (265 cu. in.) with better than 200 hp; nearly 1
>
>hp per
>>cu. in. I have a snowmobile that puts out as much hp as an O-320
>with
>only
>>680 cc's. It's small and very light, but I would never consider
>flying
>it.
>>It's too highly stressed!!
>>
>>I know I've spent an entire page preaching like a know-it-all. I
>would
>be
>>the first to admit it if proven wrong. I guess I just agree with
>Van's
>>statement that "the best conversion for an RV is to convert $8000
>into
>a
>>used good used Lycoming aircraft engine." By the way, a Chevy truck
>IS
>an
>>outstanding product with an unparalleled warranty....
>>
>>Jon Elford
>>RV-6A #25201
>>Finally a finished horizontal stab!!!!
>>
>
>
>Thanks, Jon. I've been going over the pros and cons of the auto
>conversion situation for months. What I really needed to hear was not
>arm chair guesstimation..but experience over the long term service of
>the Chevy engine. I drive a GMC 350 V-8...and LOVE that truck...but if
>
>it fails on a mountain road..I'll just lay out the sleeping bag in the
>
>bed, and sleep on it...won't have to find a stretch of runway in the
>middle of the forrest!
>
>Brian Denk
>RV-8 #379
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
Since I originally posed the question and received many useful hints and
opinions, here are my rasons why I did what:
I used a 1/2 " copper line with drain cocks @ each outlet. This was more
work* and cost a little more (insignicant to the total project cost!) than
PVC. Short spellts of cold weather are commen here in Colorado.
Everything gets much more brittle in cold weather. The extra work & cost
totally outweighted the possibility of a 'big bang' failure which could
possibly occour same time in the future. In Florida I may have opt for thick
wall pvc.
PS. *Each connection was checked for leaks with soapy water. Found some,
specifically @ threaded joints.
Thanks to all the opinions received on this subject!
>
>Try thin diameter PVC. I know, it may sound crazy, but I have it running
>through my Paper Recycling plant. I have a whole network of the stuff
Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
Lothar* K.|| Denver, CO || (303) 922-2329 || installing electric/radiant
floor hook up in the new PILOT SHED (~carriagehouse)|| loocking for RV- 6
JIG ||| *(pron'd: "low-TARR")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Will,
The "spare box area" I referred to is where the wing spare goes
through the fuselage. Cold outside air entering this area comes from
leakage past the spar hole in the fuselage sides, from the aileron push
tube access holes in the fuselage sides, and inderectly, from the flap
actuation push rod holes in the fuselage sides and undersides. All these
cold air sources contribute to causing the seating floor, baggage
compartment floor, and spar box (under your knees) to be cold and drafty.
While the fresh air intakes require exhaust area, there is ample
leakage in the cabin area to accomplish this. What is desired is enough
SUCKTION leakage from the canopy seal to allow the HEATED air to come in.
When the canopy SUCTION leakage exceeds the rate at which the HEATED air
source comes in, then it will suck in the air from all other (COLD)
sources. If the COLD air sources exceed the HOT air sources, then the
suction will bring in more COld ait than HOT air.
Now if there were NO canaopy SUCTION leaks, then the HOT air RAM
pressure would be the predominate factor. Then all COLD air sources would
become cabin exhaust points, and hence, no cold air or drafts.....
It gets complicated...... Seal the canopy the best you can....
By the way, take the "R" out of my other address and it would have
gone through.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
Will Cretsinger wrote:
>
> Will Cretsinger wrote:
> >
> > Fred, I appreciated your comments on the list regarding cockpit heat.
> > What do you mean by "spare box area"? I asked an RV-6A owner about
> > weather seal for the canopy, expecially along the longerons, and he
> > indicated a seal was not really desirable because any gap provides an
> > exit for the cabin air from the inlets. He didn't mention the
possibility of
> > siphoning cold air from elsewhere in the winter.
> >
> > In addition to the aileron pushrod boots, what other sealing do you
feel
> > is desirable? How did you seal your canopy...I have a tilt
> > canopy...working on it now...drilled but not riveted. What
> > sound/temperature insulation did you use and where?
> >
> > I have sent SASE for your boot drawing...I appreciate your help.
> >
> > Will Cretsinger
> > Arlington, TX
> > RV-6A canopyFred, this email may seem strange because the first try
resulted in a
> returned msg...perhaps I used "one" instead of "ell" following the
> name...
Fred, This is third try to get to you... Will
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Gear Legs Before Fiberglassing? |
Sounds like a good approach to me. One unsolicited comment
I was surprised to find out few tri gear builders put stiffeners on main
legs, so I deferred doing this. At 108 hours I still have yet to experience
the "shake" I have routinely felt in tail draggers with stiffeners. So far
it seems logical to delete this messy and weight producing step. You may
want to do the same, and speed up your project?
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Automotive alternators |
>According to Bill at B&C, the problem is heat under the cowl. Seems auto
>alternators often do not get enough cooling under there and so they and/or
>their internal regulators go south. Lesson: provide your alternator with
>a supply of cool air adequate to keep it health and happy. There is, of
>course, the issue of "abusing" the alternator electrically which has been
>addressed elsewhere.
>
>Gary Crane
>
>
I'm not sure that "heat" or any other stress can be identified as
the single worst effect on an alternator. I guess I didn't see the
threads on "electrical abuse" of alternators and I'm mystified
by that notion . . . how does one electrically abuse an alternator?
We know intuitively that doing some extra things like a cooling
air source is a "good" thing. Necessary? Without measurement
data we don't know. B&C's ultra-balancing procedure on their
rotors is a strong selling feature . . . not one bearing failure
in thousands of units sold? Necessary? There was no measurements
taken of relative vibration levels versus failure rates for
B&C alternators . . .in fact, no very few B&C alternators figured
into the decision but observations of other automotive conversion
product's problems prompted the rather expensive decision by B&C
to do the ballancing.
Irrespective of the discussions on which alternator or how it's
installed or if one should worry about abusing it, there's a
consideration that transcends all others. Question: After you
applied all the best advice, applied your best craftsmanship
and educated yourself on it's application, are you now betting
anything on the notion that it will never fail? "Never fail"
means 100% reliability . . . like your wing spar or elevator
control push rod.
A nice thing happens when we do failure mode effects
analysis and develop satisfactory alterantives to all failures,
the discussions about "cooling this just right, or not abusing
that" become much less significant. Much of what is brought
forward as advice is based on anecdotal information. Nothing
wrong with anecdotal information, it's the best we have
in many, many design situations but it does not lend itself
to analysis for cause/effect or quantified performance and
stresses. A lot of B&C's manufacturing decisions are based on
anecdotal input. Once you've acquired a component from B&C or
any one else, the prudent approach is to assume that any of these
parts are going to fail anyhow and develop well a reasoned "plan-b"
for the situation.
Reliability studies are conducted on critical components of
machines like the space shuttle and for commercial air transport
of people. Believe me, you cannot afford such efforts on the
convenience accessories in your airplane. I recommend you treat
EVERYTHING electrical as a convenience item, each backed up
by "plan-b" alternatives for the way you intend to use your airplane.
Without elaborating here, may I recommend these two pieces
availble for viewing elsewhere?
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/altvreg.html>
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/bltinreg.html>
By the way, our weekend seminar schedule for 1998 is beginning
to shape up. See <http://www.seminars.html>
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation- bad idea??? |
<< Why would someone try to modify a great aircraft against the designers
recommendation? >>
You'd better have your asbestos suit on! Where the heck would we be if a
fella named Van hadn't modified one of Ray Stits designs? How about that
other fella named Harmon? I certainly didn't have the designer's blessing
when I developed the slider for the Rocket. I could go on, but I'll bet
you're getting the point....The status quo can usually be improved upon.
Let the experimenters experiment!
And another (while I'm on my soapbox):
"Top speed to date has been 235 mph,"
This from a -6 with an O-320? Do you know some sort of shortcut? I would
agree if you had said this speed was reached with a tailwind (measured
groundspeed), or in a dive. If your bird is really this fast (straight &
level), I want a ride!
Anyone else want to borrow this soapbox? I guess I'm thru...;-)
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Osgood <rick(at)ccc.henn.tec.mn.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation- bad idea??? |
a) Ya know... if man were ment to fly he'd be born wth wings.
b) Jeez, why try something new my horse always got me there.
c) What!!! Fly a plane with no propeller are you kidding....
Take your pick...
That's why we call it experimental
Rick :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
| Subject: | COMPRESSED AIR LINE/NOISE REDUCERS |
You wrote:
Try thin diameter PVC. I know, it may sound crazy, I am running
a huge compressor (30hp),
but even a small compressor should do the trick
Maurice Colontonio
Cherry Hill, NJ
This is an extremely dangerous proposition! DO NOT run high pressure
compressed gas lines in PVC pipe! By high pressure, I mean anything
over a couple psig. PVC undergoes brittle shatter when it breaks
(unlike Polyethylene, Polypropylene, or members of the Teflon family
plastics). If you want a good example of this, take a good heavy hammer
and give a piece of PVC pipe a sharp, stout blow. If anything were to
happen to an airline of PVC pipe, and you had significant compressed gas
pressure behind it, you would have a shrapnel explosion as that pipe
came unzipped all along its length (we in the aluminum aircraft arena
know that once a crack in brittle material starts with some energy
behind it, it doesn't stop until the energy is dispersed).
I share this with you as a licensed engineer with plant operations and
design experience in the chemical industry. Please, folks, don't try
this at home. Sixty to 100 psig will propel sharp PVC fragments at
enough velocity to really hurt someone - and invariably it ends up being
an innocent child or spouse who had no clue. If you've already got one
done this way, I would encourage you to redo it in metal or
well-supported rubber airline.
Keith Jensen
kjensen(at)simplot.com
Waiting for -6A emp so Santa can set it out.
out trying. Have
>flow VFR on top on one flight for 1.5 hours. Speeds and distances
>verified by GPS.
>
>Gary A. Sobek
>RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I have been following the debate on the Chevy V6 installations, and
>>must
>>>offer my piece. I have worked for a prominent Chevrolet dealer as a
>>>journeyman technician for the last 9 yrs. I don't think there's
>>anything
>>>you could say to convince me that leaving terra-firma in an aircraft
>
>>powered
>>>by a Chevrolet 4.3 liter V6 is a good idea. At least I hope you're
>>talking
>>>about the 4.3 and not the 2.8. You ought to be commited if you're
>>speaking
>>>of the latter. :-)
>>>
>>>I am not saying that the 4.3 is a bad engine, because it's not. It
>>is
>>a
>>>fine mill FOR A TRUCK!! It is a smooth running engine with
>>counterbalance
>>>shafts and the like, makes good power and is fairly compact. But it
>
>>is
>>not
>>>without faults. In a Blazer or Pickup, an oil pump failure or a
>spun
>>
>>rod or
>>>main bearing is a pain in the neck and a week without your vehicle.
>
>>In
>>an
>>>aircraft (especially one you just sold out the previous 5 years of
>>your
>>life
>>>to create) it is a MUCH larger problem. Possibly deadly... I look
>>at
>>the
>>>pile of failed engine parts (and complete engines) in our warranty
>>return
>>>that resulted in a complete loss of power (ie: in on the hook) and
>>the
>>>thought of going airborne with that engine makes me shudder. And I
>>am
>>>talking about engines anywhere from brand new (0 miles) and up.
>>>
>>>I am also not saying that Lycomings are immune to these things, but
>>aircraft
>>>engines are designed, built and assembled knowing that lives are on
>>the
>>line
>>>with every revolution of the crankshaft. GM mass produces engines
>>designed
>>>specifically for "gravity bound" vehicles, and takes into account
>>that
>>some
>>>will inevitably fail and need replacement-even with very low miles
>>(hours).
>>>An aircraft engine is stressed far less than an automobile engine as
>
>>well.
>>>Take an O-360 (360 cu. in.) with 180 horsepower; 1 horsepower per 2
>>cubic
>>>inches. A 4.3 Vortec (265 cu. in.) with better than 200 hp; nearly
>1
>>
>>hp per
>>>cu. in. I have a snowmobile that puts out as much hp as an O-320
>>with
>>only
>>>680 cc's. It's small and very light, but I would never consider
>>flying
>>it.
>>>It's too highly stressed!!
>>>
>>>I know I've spent an entire page preaching like a know-it-all. I
>>would
>>be
>>>the first to admit it if proven wrong. I guess I just agree with
>>Van's
>>>statement that "the best conversion for an RV is to convert $8000
>>into
>>a
>>>used good used Lycoming aircraft engine." By the way, a Chevy truck
>
>>IS
>>an
>>>outstanding product with an unparalleled warranty....
>>>
>>>Jon Elford
>>>RV-6A #25201
>>>Finally a finished horizontal stab!!!!
>>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks, Jon. I've been going over the pros and cons of the auto
>>conversion situation for months. What I really needed to hear was not
>
>>arm chair guesstimation..but experience over the long term service of
>
>>the Chevy engine. I drive a GMC 350 V-8...and LOVE that truck...but
>if
>>
>>it fails on a mountain road..I'll just lay out the sleeping bag in
>the
>>
>>bed, and sleep on it...won't have to find a stretch of runway in the
>>middle of the forrest!
>>
>>Brian Denk
>>RV-8 #379
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation |
Guess I stirred a few folks up by asking Hal (in jest) why he was looking
for a used Chevy setup. Sorry about that Hal. My real point was in trying to
determine whether or not Belted Air has started delivering, and what the
real price is. It appears that the answer is no and price is still undetermined.
IMO the goal of an auto conversion should be a proven affordable and
reliable installation with Lycoming equivalent performance. I dont care to
be someone's beta tester, especially not if I am being asked to pay $10,000+
for the priveledge. Those do-it-yourself guys like Tracy Crook (RV-4 with
Mazda 13B now at about 600 hours and firewall forward cost of less than
$6000) are in the right ballpark.
As for the comment about modifying a design against the designers wishes,
if everyone believed that, there would be no RV's and you would be flying a
Stits Playboy. Obviously a Lyc is the best choice for the vast majority of
builders but I applaude those who experiment in an attempt to improve the breed.
And finally, as for your performance numbers, those are some truly
spectacular numbers. The only RV's that I have heard of attaining that kind
of performance are flying behind 200+ HP (another unapproved mod) and with
very carefully detailed airframes. Refer to the current RVator article about
Dave Anders' RV-4. Your numbers are not too far off from his. Can you
describe what you have, what aerodynamic tweaks you have done, etc??? Or are
you flying in magic air the rest of us dont have access to?
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings done!; saving for fuse kit)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>Why would someone try to modify a great aircraft against the designers
>recommendation?
>
>In 40 hours of RV-6 flying, I have been able to duplicate (or exceed) all
>the performance that Van advertises. Top speed to date has been 235 mph,
> stall 48 mph, economy cruise 184 mph @ 6 gph = 30 mpg. 75% power cruise
>is 190 mph at 8.55 gph. Take off from airport at 1,440 feet MSL and
>level off at 10,000 MSL 8.6 Nm from the airport without trying. Have
>flow VFR on top on one flight for 1.5 hours. Speeds and distances
>verified by GPS.
>
>Gary A. Sobek
>RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation |
<< I don't think there's anything
you could say to convince me that leaving terra-firma in an aircraft powered
by a Chevrolet 4.3 liter V6 is a good idea. >>
Ther are a few people who have been doing just that for quite a few years now
and they are still alive.
<>
Only the new ones have the balance shafts
<>
I've got 184,000 miles out of my Vortec and it hasn't missed a beat, and I
think that an oil pump failure is just as likely in a Lycosaurus as it is in
a Chevy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: chevy V6 installation (for sale??) |
<< I think you can still come out of it all
with a brand new engine and still make it all fly for around $5000 -$6000.
>>
That may be a little low unless you go the "scrounge" route for everything.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
>>If the Chevy setup is the bargain priced alternative to Lycoming that
OMABP,
Richard Finch, etc... claim it to be, why do you need to find a used one?<<
I chose to use a runout because a used block has "settled " from all the
heating and cooling cycles it has endured in the course of use. All race
engines are built from "used" blocks. also I would have torn down a new
engine anyway to make sure all the clearances and dimensions were "blueprint"
spec.
I'll have about $9,000 FWF in mine as I stated before here, with FI dual
ignition, aluminum heads etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Heat Muff-Cowl interference |
Yesterday, I finally installed my Larry Vetterman exhaust system on my
IO-320, and mounted the dual output heat muff on the forward crossover tube.
So far, so good. I then tried to put the bottom cowl on, and discovered that
it no longer fits!
With the muff mounted on the forward crossover tube, it strikes the cowl.
The muff is too long to mount anywhere else on the exhaust system. And it has
to be oriented a certain way in order to avoid rubbing on the aft crossover
tube. Has anyone else had the same problem? Do the Robbins heat muffs fit
better?
Without the heat muff, and cowl mounted, there is ample clearance. Maybe I
could use a smaller single output heatmuff and just skip the heated alternate
air, it is an IO-320.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation- bad idea??? |
<< You'd better have your asbestos suit on! Where the heck would we be if a
fella named Van hadn't modified one of Ray Stits designs? How about that
other fella named Harmon? I certainly didn't have the designer's blessing
when I developed the slider for the Rocket. I could go on, but I'll bet
you're getting the point....The status quo can usually be improved upon.
Let the experimenters experiment! >>
Alright one more and I'm through !
I don't recommend to anyone that the Chevy is the way to go or better or
yadda, yadda, yadda. But for me it IS the way I want to go and I don't need
someone that has NEVER even tried it to telll me it won't work. ALL of the
posts on the negative side, and I mean every single one, has been written by
someone who THINKS it won't fly, and a lot of the positive ones were written
by someone who is actually doing it !!!
Unless and until I hear about someone that actually DID it and it didn't work
or whatever, I will remain convinced that it is viable. So all you guys
trying to talk us out of it can stop wasting our time.
BTW if you aren't 100% sure you want to do it, that means you are 100% sure
you don't
My $.02 worth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
<< the new Chevy Vortec block are
set at 90 degrees instead of 60 degrees (or maybe vice-versa) >>
There is a 60 degree V-6 available from Chevy but that is an entirely
different engine design. The Vortec is still available and is a 90 degree
block, bsaed on the sucessful "small block" V-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
Not questioning/doubting your choice of engine. You explained previously in
detail the mods you have made to your Chevy to suit your requirements for
aircraft use. Your FWF cost for your much modified Chevy seems quite reasonable.
I do question why anyone would want to pay $10,000+ for a relatively
unproven FWF package based on a production over-the-counter engine that
costs less than $2000 direct from Chevy. Is a motor mount, radiator, and
some odds and ends (I realize this is somewhat over-simplified) really worth
$8000+?
Looking forward to hearing of your progress, and hope others will continue
to experiment as you have in an attempt to come up with a reasonably priced,
proven, reliable alternative to Lyc.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings done!; saving for fuse kit)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>I chose to use a runout because a used block has "settled " from all the
>heating and cooling cycles it has endured in the course of use. All race
>engines are built from "used" blocks. also I would have torn down a new
>engine anyway to make sure all the clearances and dimensions were "blueprint"
>spec.
>
>I'll have about $9,000 FWF in mine as I stated before here, with FI dual
>ignition, aluminum heads etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.com> |
>I thought that I read somewhere that the Chevy Vortac block that is
>commonly used isn't available new anymore. The new Chevy Vortec block are
>set at 90 degrees instead of 60 degrees (or maybe vice-versa)
>You also have to replace the stock cam with a marine use cam. At
>Copperstate, I talked to Jess and he said that the firewall forward package
>Regards,
>Tom Velvick
>rver(at)caljet.com
>rv-6a wings
The Chev Votec block has always been a 90 degree block. From the beginning,
GM took a Chev V-8 (90 degree) and lopped two cylinders off to make the V-6.
Chev also produced a smaller 60 degree V-6 all metric engine that was used
in small trucks and cars. Two very different motors. Both blocks are
available through Chev (all alum versions too. Big$$) at junk yards and
at rebuilt engine suppliers (Kragen's and Pep Boys in CA too.) Both are
common motors.
Buy or build the motor, buy or make a re-drive and make the mount.
Realistically, $10,000 total.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy V6 Installation |
Hi all,
Thanks to Jon and Brian for some valuable input on the engine topic. Of course,
I have some reply comments to Jon's remarks.
First let me tell you something that we in the software business have
discovered. Our products look terrible **to us** as we see all the flaws. No
one calls us up to tell us they think our product is great. So a Chevy mech
sees all the troubles with his stuff but not with aircraft engines. I've been
nearly fifty years driving Chevy trucks - three of them and only one was new.
I
drive fast nearly all the time. I brought everything we owned from Kansas to
Oregon with the new one pulling a 14 foot U-Haul and the truck box stuffed. The
engine was running at full power nearly all the way. The oil pressure was lower
at the end of the journey but it went on to 120,000 miles. This was the stock
engine, not one with 4340 steel rods and crank or even forged pistons. I don't
know if a Lyc could do that but I'm ready to bet anyone that a Continental can't
do 100% power for more than 24 hours!
Used Lycomings break too, Jon. Either way, get a new engine with new rods and
crank. They all break. When I got my pilot's license over 20 years ago, engine
failure was a major topic in the training. I've dealt with several engine
problems since including a spun rod bearing. The only failures I've experienced
with auto engines were either expected or "won't start". I've never even
experienced a failure racing british cars!
Either option is, I suspect, acceptable for use and quite safe. The Lycoming
option is quite a bit more expensive in terms of purchase and maintenance. The
Chevy (a new 4.3 of course) is quite adequate and, in my *VERY* carefully
considered opinion, safer than a tired or poorly maintained Lycoming.
Do us a favor, Jon, tell us what parts you have seen fail in the Chevy engine.
I am quite interested in failures in the 4.3 post '87 Vortec.
And try not to scold.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- WANTED TO BUY - a used Chevy V-6 setup.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
> >I have been following the debate on the Chevy V6 installations, and
> must
> >offer my piece. I have worked for a prominent Chevrolet dealer as a
> >journeyman technician for the last 9 yrs. I don't think there's
> anything
> >you could say to convince me that leaving terra-firma in an aircraft
> powered
> >by a Chevrolet 4.3 liter V6 is a good idea.
> >used good used Lycoming aircraft engine." By the way, a Chevy truck IS
> an
> >outstanding product with an unparalleled warranty....
> >
> >Jon Elford
> >RV-6A #25201
> >Finally a finished horizontal stab!!!!
> >
>
>
> Thanks, Jon. I've been going over the pros and cons of the auto
> conversion situation for months. What I really needed to hear was not
> arm chair guesstimation..but experience over the long term service of
> the Chevy engine. I drive a GMC 350 V-8...and LOVE that truck...but if
> it fails on a mountain road..I'll just lay out the sleeping bag in the
> bed, and sleep on it...won't have to find a stretch of runway in the
> middle of the forrest!
>
> Brian Denk
> RV-8 #379
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: RV MODELS/WEATHER VANE |
An RV weather vane! I think I'll make one!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bumflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Duckworks landing lights - Try a different lens? |
Count me as a satisfied customer. A great product and a good kit with an
excellent set of instructions. As a bonus, when I installed the two light
system on my left wing, it wound up (with no adjustment required) pointed
perfectly with both light patterns converging about 50 feet in front of the
airplane in taxi stance and just the right distance to the runway on final
approach to let me know when to flare. This is an RV-6A.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | list upgrades;fund raising |
Matt,
Just wanted to say thanks for the recent improvements to the list. I'm
seeing my posts less than an hour after sending them as opposed to 1/2 - 1
day as before. Removes the doubt as to whether what I send has vanished.
As for the list fund raiser, let me apologize for not contributing at the
time the call was first circulated. This caught me as I was finishing up my
wings, and saving to get my fuselage kit on order, christmas shopping,
etc... I get a lot of use out of this list and really appreciate the effort
you put into it. Expect my contribution first part of the new year.
Mike Wills
RV-4(wings done!; saving for fuse kit)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | rv-list: RV-6A Pilot Operating Handbook |
Listers,
I've finally "finished" the POH that I've been working on over the past few
months. It is specific to my particular aircraft, but it should be easy to
modify it to any other RV with little effort. It can be downloaded at:
http://villagenet.com/~scottg/poh.html
There are two different versions. One is available in both word 95 and word
97 format. This version does not have three embedded *.bmp's. These bmp's
are scanned images from the Lycoming operations manual. They are available
for downloading on the same page. For some reason, when an image is
embedded in a word document, the overall file size gets much, much bigger
than by having the text and image separate. Example, the three images are
about 4 meg total. The word 95 file is about 3.6 meg. If I were to embed
the images in the word 95 document, the resulting file size would be over 19
meg !!!
The second version is in word 97 format only and contains the embedded pictures.
If anyone has any problems with the download, please e-mail me and it will
be fixed. Let me know if anyone needs a copy of this in any other format
(except for Mac's) and I'll do my best to convert it.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Wrong info here - new engine (okay a month ago) for $3300; long block about
$1600.
The engine is the 90 degree block - 3/4 of a small block V8 - 262 CID.
At least one RV builder was installing the package last month. Charles?
hal
>
> I thought that I read somewhere that the Chevy Vortac block that is
> commonly used isn't available new anymore. The new Chevy Vortec block are
> set at 90 degrees instead of 60 degrees (or maybe vice-versa)
> You also have to replace the stock cam with a marine use cam. At
> Copperstate, I talked to Jess and he said that the firewall forward package
> for the RV-6a was not available yet, but should be in early 1998.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | High Comp. Pistons |
| From: | Christopher Dahl <dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net> |
Are any of you or do any of you have experience with running higher
compression pistons in a 160hp O-320? Was thinking along the lines of
10:1. If so, would you do it again or no? Any pro's and con's in reply
would be appreciated.
Christopher Dahl
Sutter Creek, Ca
RV-4 N426RC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
>There is a 60 degree V-6 available from Chevy but that is an entirely
>different engine design. The Vortec is still available and is a 90 degree
>block, bsaed on the sucessful "small block" V-8
Thats great to know. If you were going to look for a Chevy Vortec V-6
engine to use, what year and type of vehicle would you look for to get it
out of?
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6a wings
November 19, 1997 - December 03, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ds