RV-Archive.digest.vol-dw
December 14, 1997 - December 17, 1997
<34949C58.D352A698(at)cdsnet.net>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
. The major cause of engine failure
>is
>> simply running out of gas. In the interests of safety, why aren't we
>> discussing how to add extra fuel tanks to our planes?
>> Frank.<<>
>> Nice alum wing tanks AKA Blader Buster tanks are made by Farn
>Reed,541
>> 471 6289
I think it is an error in logic to assume that the type of pilot that
runs out of fuel with 32 gal available, wouldn't run out if he had 42
available.
Or if it's an RV-8 builder that has an airplane with 42 gal available,
then he would be safer with 50?
I doubt it!
It takes a safe pilot to have safety in an airplane regardless of how
much fuel is available!
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV6A-QB fuselage alignment |
Having spent the last three months building a regular 6A empennage kit, my
6A-QB was delivered a few days ago. Overall, the quality is pretty good,
but something didn't look quite right at the aft end of the fuselage.
I've got the fuselage levelled across the longerons at the forward end. It
stays consistently level till aft of the baggage compartment, & then twists
off so that there's 3/16" difference in longeron height at the end. This
is 3/16" in 4" so the angle is very noticable. Vertically, there's 1/2"
error on the 12" centerline of the F612 bulkhead, so the whole tailcone is
twisted.
Also, measuring against the fuselage center line, the F611C HS attachment
points are not square. RH is 1/8" aft of LH.
I plan to discuss this with Van's, but has anyone else had this experience?
I can't see any easy way to rectify the twist, but fixing HS & VS with
shims to this extent seems excessive.
Chris Good.
West Bend, WI.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Editing email replies was Engine Hop-up Mods |
Thanks, Charlie.
I'll be in Chicago all week so I should have plenty of mail from the
list when I get back. I'm bound to find some I can practice on. I
would rather stay here and look at the sand on the beach . I think
there is some real snow in Chicago right now. Thanks again for the
lesson.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone on the list, and remember
what Christmas is really all about.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Scott Fink wrote:
>
> In addition they have a wind-driven generator that can be deployed in
> the event of total engine failure(s).
>
> Scott
> RV6 drilling left wing skins
>
>I think that you'll find that the generator you refer to is in fact the
RAT or (Ram Air Turbine) on the B757 whose purpose is to provide
hydraulic pressure to operated the flight controls etc.Electrical power
can be provided by starting the APU.
On the B-767-300ER however, there is an HMG (Hydraulic Motor Generator)
which has a hyd. motor run a generator to provide Electric power to the
Captains instrument transfer buss. A switch allows the power to the
Co-pilots side in the event the Captain wants to take a break.
Don Champagne
RV-6 QB mounting engine&prop
N767DC Retired Delta Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Battery |
| From: | rvsixer(at)juno.com (michael d hilger) |
On Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:47:29 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
writes:
>
>
. This
>technology is becoming quite commonplace and IMHO is the ONLY kind
>of battery to use in an airplane. There are DOZENS of other
>manufacturers
>out there offering similar technologies . . . virtually all
>manufacturers
>of un-interuptable power supply batteries now offer RG technology.
>"Gel"
>cells and flooded batteries are fading fast and I'm not sorry to see
>them
>go.
>
>
Bob,
I am planning on using a Concord RG battery. Any reason not to?
Sounds like you favor this type of battery.
Mike Hilger
RV-6, fuse top
skins/cabin work
P.S. Thanx to Charlie Kuss for the text editing advice!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv(at)tppal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A-QB fuselage alignment |
I would like to hear more about this as your situation develops, as I am
waiting for my QB....
Paul Besing
RV-6A QB 197AB (reserved)
>
>Having spent the last three months building a regular 6A empennage kit, my
>6A-QB was delivered a few days ago. Overall, the quality is pretty good,
>but something didn't look quite right at the aft end of the fuselage.
>
>I've got the fuselage levelled across the longerons at the forward end. It
>stays consistently level till aft of the baggage compartment, & then twists
>off so that there's 3/16" difference in longeron height at the end. This
>is 3/16" in 4" so the angle is very noticable. Vertically, there's 1/2"
>error on the 12" centerline of the F612 bulkhead, so the whole tailcone is
>twisted.
>
>Also, measuring against the fuselage center line, the F611C HS attachment
>points are not square. RH is 1/8" aft of LH.
>
>I plan to discuss this with Van's, but has anyone else had this experience?
> I can't see any easy way to rectify the twist, but fixing HS & VS with
>shims to this extent seems excessive.
>
>Chris Good.
>West Bend, WI.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Weight / Balance Data |
Chester: Looks like we are very close in the process, I will be doing weight a
balance in a couple of weeks. My hangar partner,(RV-6) did his last week and
came in at 1070 lbs,(0-360, constant speed prop, vacuum system, no paint.)
I also hope to be flying in February, good luck, keep in touch!
Walt Hastings RV-6A #21611
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Forrest <gforrest(at)nwc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
F Mark40 wrote:
> If I go with the skin mounted horn as per the electric trim plans, should I
> put a doubler under the skin ?
>
> Also, the supplemental plans are not to scale and there are no dimensions for
> the trim horn. I guess the dimensions of the horn are not critical and can be
> compensated for by using the servo governor.
>
> How have you electric trim users done it ?
>
> Mark McGee
>
Mark
I just finished the electric trim. I had the same problems that Don
experienced. The servo mounting brackets (EET 602B) were too low and the servo
hit the bottom of the EET 602A cover plate. I had to raise the mounting brackets
by making two 0.25 inch thick aluminum rails and riveting the rails and the
mounting brackets to the cover plate.
I had the same questions (worries) about not using a doubler plate, but riveted
the trim tab horn to the skin per the directions. Although it seems strong, I
do
not have the experience to know how long it will last under flight conditions.
At the time, I assumed that van would have considered the strength in the
design. Now, considering the quality of my electric trim kit, I think my
assumption is questionable.
There are no dimensions given in my kit. Make sure that the servo rod attachment
hole in the trim tab horn is over or very close to the hinge center line as shown
for the manual trim. My trim tab horn is back a little too far on the trim
tab. This causes the servo rod to hit the bottom skin of the elevator when the
servo arm is fully extended. I had to elongate the hole quite a bit to prevent
contact.
Jerry Forrest
Finishing epennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wndwlkr711 <Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:RV-3 Engine Mount |
Hello, fellow listers! A frient of mine has a Dynafocal engine mount for an
RV-3 for sale. It has never been used but he primered it so could not return
it. $375.00 or best offer and he will ship it. Contact Dennis at
760-355-8341(USA).
George Stanley
RV-6A, Wings in Jigs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | 6 Weight / Balance Data |
RV-6 weight with calibrated electronic scales:
Here's some aircraft data:
airframe interior fully primed
0320 B2B converted to Constant Speed
Hartzell constant speed prop
Basic IFR panel using both RMI units
1 KX 125
1 Apollo 360 GPS
AM/FM cassette radio
Basic Interior: seat cushions and backs, no side panels or flooring
Manual trim and flaps.
Wing tip strobes with power supplies in wing tips
RMD wing tip landing lights
ELT behind baggage compartment
Tail nav light
Tail strobe with power supply in tail
Aircraft built as per Vans plans with no extras
L. Main: 508 lbs
R Main: 519 lbs
Tail wheel: 59 lbs
total: 1086 lbs
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming cylinder porting |
<19971210.141415.7606.0.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
writes:
>>Scott: If you read Lycoming's literature (Lycoming Flier) you will
>>find that Lycoming says that engine power increases 1% for each 10 F
>>drop in INLET air temperature below standard.
>
>Gary,
> I understand all the reasons for wanting cool induction air, and
>I know that a lot of the aerobatics guys put on modified induction
>systems even if using a standard Lyc sump.
>The info I mentioned was what I thought I remember airflow perf
>putting out in one of their Newsletter/press releases that with Dyno
testing
>they saw no appreciable power output. Like I said I remember it
>incorrectly so maybe I should have not mentioned it. I will try to
check into it
>and find out.
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
Scott:
I agree that no appreciable power output would be seen. I would be
willing to pay to have a copy of a report that says that. I do NOT
BELIEVE that a lot of heat is picked up in the induction system of the
standard Lycoming. If you are looking for every last fraction of a
percent of power, this is one area that a lot of the HIGH performance
airplanes jocks do to their airplane. An example is Dave Anders 200+ HP
RV-4.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
AOG today. Backed right elevator into support pole in my hangar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting the tanks |
<< There's nothing on an airplane that can't be fixed. >>
I'm beginning to wonder.
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop question |
<< what kind of props most people are opting for >>
This has to do with personal preferences, and in some cases $$$$$. People are
having good luck (and some bad) with all the different prop combinations that
are being used. In the end run, I wish to end up with a constant speed, but
will probably go with a standard metal fixed pitch prop to start out with.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A QB - I only have 35 degrees elevator movement |
<< At least one elevator has failed on an overspeeded RV >>
The key words here are over, and speed. Do not overspeed your RV.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
<< Sure
didn't have the experience Don relates. Just checked it and it seems strong
enough to me compared to the manual one I had on my first RV. So if no one
states otherwise, that's what I'm going with.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA >>
Les,
I cant speculate on what Dons problem was but I thought the electric trim
installation was pretty straight forward. If you can figure out how to build
the rest of the tail, the trim installation is not difficult. I have been
flying my 4 for 3.5 years with electic trim and like it alot. I think you will
find that most people who have negative comments twards electric trim dont
have it, never tryed it, or never gave themselves a chance to get used to it.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight restrictions |
<< Does anyone have any regulatory info to the contrary? If so, I've
busted it a lot of times! >>
You're under arrest!
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV List:Engine disassembly |
<< Tried hitting a 2x4 with a sledge but it won't move. >>
Don't "HIT" on airplane engines. It costs too much to repair.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Hop-up Mods |
<< A really smooth exhaust port is good though, I'm given to understand. >>
It does help with purging the cylinder.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
| Subject: | FW: Instrumenting an RV6 |
Since you are number 3 I feel there may be enough interest to take this
on the list for discussion, so here what has been going on by direct
e-mail.
This is my second attempt at posting this as a network failure at my end
took out the email server .
----------
From: ron.taborek(at)flight642.com[SMTP:ron.taborek(at)flight642.com]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 1997 11:32
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Chevy V6 Installation
TABOREK)
Alan,
I'd be quite interested in learning more about your suggested
engine
monitoring suggestion. I have an AV-10 engine monitor, which
covers
many engine parameters. I am planning to record the data and do
overhaul on an on-condition basis.
ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
By the way, thanks to all who contributed to the
vernatherm/relief valve
discussion. Most helpful!
-> Message-Id:
-> From: Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au>
-> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Chevy V6 Installation
-> Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 06:16:01 +0800
->
->
-> If you instrument it right it could also tell you both what
broke and
-> give you warning ( a half hour or so) that it was about to
happen
-> before it became either critical to your survival or your
planes.
-> This is quite common industrial practice.
-> If you are interested I could detail a typical condition
monitoring
-> system for a reciprocating engine.
----------
From: Brendon Whateley[SMTP:brendon(at)tibco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 10:07
To: Gibson Allan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Chevy V6 Installation
>If you are interested I could detail a typical
condition monitoring
>system for a reciprocating engine.
I would be very interested in knowing this. (I replied
off list to reduce list
bandwidth)
Thanks,
Brendon
Please bear in mind this list assumes money and weight are no object but
some of this could be adapted.
1. Oil temperature
2. Oil pressure
3. Oil flow
4. Coolant inlet temperature
5. Coolant outlet temperature
6. Coolant pressure
7. Coolant flow
8. Exhaust Gas temperature
9. Cylinder Head temperature
10. Cylinder Body temperature
11. Engine Speed & Phase (position in engine rotation)
12. Main Bearing temperatures
13. Main Bearing vibration (magnitude, phase & frequency
distribution (FFT))
14. Thrust Bearing temperature
15. Thrust Bearing vibration (magnitude, phase & frequency
distribution (FFT))
16. Cylinder Head pressure (magnitude & phase) ( non invasive
transmitters are available)
17. Fuel pressure
18. Fuel flow (mass flow for preference measure temp as well
otherwise)
19. Air flow (derivable from Manifold pressure & RPM)
20. Outside Air Temperature
21. Outside Air Pressure (Pressure Altitude)
22. Thrust & Torque
23. Oil Analysis for contaminants / conductivity ect.
All of these items should be alarmed for both high and low limits and
rate of change and be available for calculations for derived values.
What you are looking for is a change that cannot be explained by another
variable or computed combination of other variables.
Data analysis should be undertaken after each run with trending to
determine time related effects, ie bearing temperatures that don't level
off but keep rising.
High and low limits for some of these items would be available based on
published endurance limits.
The vibration probes are most important for ball and roller bearings as
they will spot damage to either races or individual elements before they
become obvious by other means.
Temperature rises in bearings above the average for the engine indicate
excessive friction and indicate bearing damage related to lubrication
problems in either the monitored bearing or the big end bearing close to
it.
Cylinder body temperatures relate to problems with wrist pin lubrication
or piston problems. Piston problems will also show on the cylinder head
pressure.
Changes in engine performance indicate possible faults in either the
ignition or valve gear if all else remains normal.
Vibration analysis generates too much data to be recorded effectively so
in line trending and averaging, with grab sampling is used, if this is
to be done. Ditto for the Cylinder Head pressure.
This could go on and on but I thought I should get this back to you
before I end up writing a book on the subject.
----------
From: halk(at)sybase.com[SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 9:17
To: Gibson Allan
Subject: Instrumenting an RV6
Hi Allen,
I'm in a better mood today!
I bought a ADC board for a 486 PC I had on hand. Now I
need to select probes
and some kind of display for the cockpit. I want to
measure pressures, temps,
etc , display several most "interesting" and have
anunciators to signal which
are worthy of note.
Software for this is no problem as we (think we are)
software geniuses here.
I'm not a beginner to hardware but this area, especially
displays are new to me.
I know how to light up a select LED for anunciator but
display of numbers has
me. Strain gages might be usefull here and there too.
Any advice you can give would be appreciated.
Hal Kempthorne
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @
SJC
Brendon Whateley had some similar questions so I am copying him in on
this discussion, I hope you don't mind Hal.
First item is budget.
For Pressure Monitoring:
If absolute accuracy and a twenty year design life is important
Fisher-Rosemount make a line of capacitance transmitters which put out a
4-20mA signal with the addition of a 250 +/- 0.1% Ohm resistor will give
quit acceptable accuracy on a 12 Bit 5V analog input. These cost upwards
of A$1000 and weight about 100g.
Other manufacturers use strain gauge inputs to similar devices with
prices from A$500 but lower long term stability ( cc 0.5% per annum).
These are available from a number of instrumentation suppliers. Try your
local yellow pages or the Instrument Society of America web site.
The next step down in price is a bare strain gauge sensor. These are
still quite accurate but you will have to build a buffer amplifier to
raise its output from 100mV to what ever the minimum range is on your
ADC board. These devices accuracy depends on a 10Vdc supply rail, not
hard to build using a three terminal regulator. Total cost cc A$200.
Air/gas pressures can be monitored with cheap silicon gauges if you keep
solvents and acid gasses (like exhaust fumes) away.
For Temperature Monitoring:
If the temperature is below 300C a Pt100 RTD ( 100Ohm @ OC Platinum
Resistance Temperature Device) is the way to go if the room is
available, surface mount versions are available for things like
monitoring bearing temperatures. Accuracy is very good as is long term
stability. Cost is about A$50 per sensor.
If the temperature is above 300C a Type N (NiSi / NiCrSi) thermocouple
is the way to go to 1350C. Calibration is close enough to type K couples
to be used interchangeably with an error of under 1C. Type N's are more
stable ( 2C vs +/- 7C) and drift less than type K. Nicrosil (which is
available from Inco) also makes a great fire wall material as it is
twice as strong as stainless at 1100C. Cost is around A$50 per sensor.
Either way multi-strand wire (not solid) should be used for the
connection of these systems due to the vibration in a light plane. I
know this from experience, I had a CHT probe that failed every 20Hrs
until I bent the rules and made up one using flexible leads, 500Hrs
later and still no problems, cost A$20.
For Flow Monitoring:
Use differential pressure transmitters from the pressure transmitter
suppliers.
For Thrust Monitoring:
Expensive option, use commercial load cells attached to each of your
engine mounts.
Cheaper option, buy glue-on strain gauges, in OZ I buy them from Philips
Electronics. Down-side is that since they are glued on with structural
epoxy they become a permanent part of your engine mount. Bolt on
versions are also available. Locations will need to be determined to
eliminate torque effects. Not hard, just keep all the cell in the same
plane (alignment) and average the results. You may get acceptable
readings with a little as one cell if your mount is symmetrical and you
build a low pass filter. The raw data before the filter will tell you a
lot about your engine / prop dynamic balance.
For RPM a pulse input from a proximity switch off your starter gear to a
high speed counter would definitely do.
As for displays I need to know more of what you intend to display.
Though there are a number of different indicators including LED's,
LCD's, Gas Plasma, Fluorescent, Hot wire and Electrodynamic to save time
I will refer to them all as LED's as the control of all of them is very
similar.
The simplest displays are LED's to indicate alarm conditions. A simple
switch output will drive them.
If you have more than four signals to indicate multiplexing will reduce
the number of signal lines required.
It works by using two ( or more) lines to control the output power to
the indicators while another set of line determines which lamps are
connected to ground. Do this fast enough and all the lamps can be turned
on and off.
This is how your computers memory is addressed.
For number displays you take the next step and arrange your indicators
in the shape of numbers ( seven segments in a figure 8 or eight with a
decimal point.) So to drive a numerical display direct from your
computer you will need eight lines (for a floating decimal point) plus
one line for each displayed digit. This will also permit the display of
some non-numeric items.
Do the same for a line of LED's and you have a dot matrix display as per
the shop signs you see around.
For another variety of alpha numeric displays the characters are
arranged in a figure similar to a union jack with 14 (or more) segments.
This permits the clear display of the entire alphabet in upper case and
used to be common in cash registers.
If you think this is a waste of valuable I/O lines, many others agree so
it is common to pass these tasks of to a display microprocessor and
communicate via a parallel port ( your computers printer port is an
example of this) or a serial link for longer distances.
For fancier displays the video port is the obvious way to go and since
video driven flat screens became available there is nothing stopping you
but cost and day light readability. Consider however that this is just a
high speed three bit parallel port ( at least until VGA came along) with
two clock lines.
I will leave the relative advantages and disadvantages of various other
display devices for tomorrow.
Now for a brief burst of optical physics.
Light is emitted when an excited electron ( or positron but we will skip
that) drops from a high orbital to a lower one.
The size of this step is determines the amount of energy transferred to
the emitted photon.
Since photons all travel at the same speed extra energy is expressed as
a change in resonant frequency (colour).
Certain materials can alter these frequencies by using these photons to
step electrons up or down in energy levels. The phosphors used in
fluorescent lights are ane example of this where a mercury arc is used
to emit hard ultraviolet light which is then down converted by the
mixture of phosphors into an approximation of white light. The colour of
a fluorescent light is dependant on the precise mixture of phosphors.
The resulting colours range from soft ultraviolet to dark red.
Most phosphors can also be directly excited by an electron beam ( as in
a TV or CRT) or a by placing them between two electrodes (LCD
back-lighting), in either case their emissivity falls by around 50% for
every 1000Hrs operation (burn in is a common problem with CRT's) due to
the destruction of the phosphor by the beam. ( The inside of an electron
beam welder / cutter is a CRT gun scaled up by an order of magnitude.)
The guns in a CRT are also fragile and do not age gracefully.
So the problems with fancy displays are that they dim as they age,
probably needing to be replaced at the same time as your engine if there
is no brightness adjustment.
Plasma displays use an excited gas such as neon instead of a phosphor
but the physics are similar, ie excite gas with electrical field ( cc
100V) and let it discharge emitting light. Nixie tubes were the an early
example and Toshiba used them in early laptop displays.
The advantage of the above is that they are quite efficient and
therefore bright. The following are less efficient but also less fragile
as they are more robust.
Hot wire displays are the first cousin to incandescent lights as they
use a heated filament to indicate status. Since they use a hot wire
metal evaporates dimming them as they age. Estimated life is around
10,000Hrs and these have been used in aircraft radios.
LED's use the band gap voltage in a diode to emit light, the lower the
band gap the lower the frequency emitted, Silicon has a band gap of 0.6V
so infrared is emitted, with red from Gallium Arsenide at 2 - 3V, green
at ~3.5V and blue from Gallium Nitride and Gallium Aluminium Nitride at
5 - 6V. If LED's are kept cool they can last 100,000++ in service but
overheat them by either overdriving them or storing them in a lot
location and the dopants in the substrate migrate and the LED slowly
dims and dies. The hotter they get the faster it happens and the
Aluminium is the worst. Efficiency is around 10% for most with lasing
diodes at 1%.
LCD's use a quasi-stable oil based structure derived from cholesterol (
yes, the same stuff your doctor warned you about). These form helical
structures when placed in an electrical field causing the light passing
through to take the same helical path, this results in the light being
polarised. If you place a polarised screen in front it will appear as
either black or clear depending on the polarisation. The higher the
twist the darker the black. The down-side is that they require a
temperature between 0 and 70C to work, go too low and they freeze in
last state, too high and they go black. The advantage is that since they
are a field device little current is needed unless you are switching
fast ( or have a back light ).
Any other questions?
----------
From: halk(at)sybase.com[SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 1997 9:18
To: Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au
Subject: RE: Further to Instrumenting an RV6, Displays.
Wow! I ask you what time it is and you tell me how to make a
watch!
Thanks for all the effort, Allan. What I need to know, however,
is what kinds
of displays I might be able, as a software person, to write to.
I know how to
take my output and display it on a terminal etc. Are there
screens of LEDs or
LCDs that I can send ASCII characters to, for example?
Sorry for not being clear about what I wanted to know.
hal
Sorry about getting into lecture mode.
The answer to this question is yes.
Seven bit + strobe line LCD displays are quite common and are available
in a wide variety sizes, colours and back lighting. If you have a
alphanumeric pager you are looking at one.
Hitachi are one manufacturer you could try but since most manufactures
are competing for the same market they all program in roughly the same
way. I would suggest you get a data sheet from Hitachi and have a read.
Another alternative would be industrial graphical interface terminals,
these again have a large number of manufacturers including just about
anyone in the electrical control industry, you could try Koyo
(PLC-Direct) or Allen Bradley. These use serial communications links but
are much heavier as delivered as they are intended for industrial use.
Of course if you want a display that can be read from orbit alternative
means will be needed.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
>
> I have been
> flying my 4 for 3.5 years with electic trim and like it alot. I think you will
> find that most people who have negative comments twards electric trim dont
> have it, never tryed it, or never gave themselves a chance to get used to it.
> Ryan
>
I agree
I had the opportunity to fly my RV-6 about 400 hrs with the manual trim
and about 400 hrs with the elec. I would not go back to manual for
for all the tea in China. The manual trim on the RV-6 has to much
slop in the cable where it makes the bend in the cockpit, with
the elec, and the trim switch on the control stick it trims and stays
right where I want it.
Now having mentioned the slop in the trim cable I have to say things
may have changed since I finished my airplane in 1989.
I also found that it was very easy to install per the instructions
and yes the horn riveted to the skin is just fine.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gary Sobeks elevator |
<19971210.141415.7606.0.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com> <19971214.215416.11022.0.gasobek(at)juno.com>
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
> AOG today. Backed right elevator into support pole in my hangar.
>
Gary I know the feeling I built my RV-6 in my little shop at home with
no problems, the minute I took it to my big oversize hanger I backed
the airplane in and caught the left elev. on one of the T-hanger
corners. I had to rebuild the whole elev. and of course it was the
one with the trim.:-(
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
>> I have been
>> flying my 4 for 3.5 years with electic trim and like it alot.
> Ryan
>
>I agree
>I had the opportunity to fly my RV-6 about 400 hrs with the manual trim
>and about 400 hrs with the elec. I would not go back to manual
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
"snip"
I have not seen so far, any reference to the weight of the elevator trim
cable and the fact that much of its weight is behind c. of g.. I don't have
a cable to weigh but noted my friend's cable seemed much heavier than the
whole ee trim kit, box included. could this help in some decision making out
there. BTW. my trim tab kit went on just fine. after reading some recent
complaints, I'm wondering how much trim tab movement guys are expecting to see.
Be cautious about adding strength, it's penalty is weight. Particularly that
far back on any airframe.
jim - wings flaps ailerons half done.
When my dreams come true the sky's the limit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
Larry,
I got my trim tab finished and mounted last night, but have not cut the hole
in the elevator for the servo yet. I really would like to go with a root
mounted horn as opposed to a bottom mounted one since it looks like it might
damage the trim tab skin.
The problem is that it would put the servo doubler plate pretty close to the
root rib of the elevator making for a narrow doubler.
I also found that I do not have the required 0.063" material for the horn.
Good luck.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
Jerry,
I had to make the spacers for the servo as well, but I made the from 0.040 so
the servo would just clear the cover at the bottom.
I'll make sure to bring the horn out into the hinge C.L. as you advised.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | MAC servo speed control |
I intend to install a speed control for my electric elevator trim servo.
Since this is a DC motor, I can change the speed by simply changing the
voltage, correct.
Does a speed control need to be any more than a rheostat ? Maybe a variable
voltage regulator driving a sufficiently large power transistor ?
Mark McGee
RV4 Trim installation in progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 leading edge skin fit |
Hey folks,
In pulling the leading edge skin tight to the nose ribs..it seems like
there won't be enough material left to trim away at the bottom edge
where it meets with the outboard lower wing skin. There's just not
enough material to maintain minimum rivet hole to edge distance along
the spar rivet line after filing away on it. I'd rather not have to trim
anything, of course..that machine cut edge is nice and straight! What's
the consensus on this subject? Will leaving a gap between the skin and
rib noses cause airfoil distortion/skin rippling once it's all riveted
together? It seems like Van's could put the prepunched rivet line
further away from the edge of the skin..to give more material to remove
if necessary..and not place the resultant rivet line too near the spar
web for bucking bar clearance.
Brian Denk
heater installed in shop..no more numb fingers!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Hop-up Mods |
Right on!
Ed
----------
From: Steven Spruell
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Hop-up Mods
Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 4:11PM
>I have been told that it is overengineered - but when my butt is
>on the line, no such thing.
My goal is to have everything on the plane overengineered. Who cares if
can climb.
Steven Spruell
RV-6A N316RV (Fuselage)
Houston Bay Area RVators
http://www.iwl.net/customers/markr/hbar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Hop-up Mods |
Like the idea or AND/OR gate. I take one source from negative side of one
coil and other from TACH out put of second coil. I use a blocking diode
such that if primary signal is present, diode prevents secondary trigger
from EFI input.
Ed
----------
From: Snow, Mark
Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Hop-up Mods
Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 4:11PM
I now have two independent sources for the EFI electronic trigger
>signal. Just thought I would pass along my experience.
>
>
I also have two independant trigger sources for my efi computer in the form
of two completly redundant electronic ignition systems. These two trigger
sources are fed to an or gate making them invisable to each other.
Pre-flight runup is conducted in the same manner as with a mag equiped
engine, checking first the intrigty of #1 ignition and then #2.this system
has worked well for me. The possible single point failure
is in or'ing circuitry and the efi computer.Redundency does not have to be
in the form of more electronics however,would'nt an air door in the form of
an ellison or posa serve as a back up,cost being the draw back here?
Mark Snow
48RV
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TPhilpin <TPhilpin(at)aol.com> |
<< >All gyros are freaked out by aerobatics, some maybe more than others, but
the
>cageable feature has no bearing (hah, hah, I kill myself) on this.
You have to power 'em down too . . . it's true that caging just
centers the mechanisms but it also keeps the gimbals from banging
around due to outside influences. If the rotor is still spinning,
then there's a lot of stress on the bearings as well. >>
QUESTION: Would a cockpit controlled valve in the vacuum system, or switched
electrical power to the gyros sufficently protect them during light
aerobatics????
Tony Philpin
RV - 8 Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
<< I am about to begin installation of the Navaid servo unit, under passenger
seat, according to the instructions supplied Navaid by some builders.
There are two schemes provided. One sits a bit more forward than the
other >>
Ron,
You will get some pitch coupling when you mount to the stick plus you have
to accomodate all the stick travel. There are several in S. Fla here that have
them mounted in the wing. If you have not closed the bottom of the wing, then
mount it just outboard of the aileron push pull tube and fastened to
bellcrank. You can take it in and out thru the bellcrank inspection port.
There are several who have mounted them in the wingtip after the airplane was
built and they use a long tube to reach down to the bellcrank. Apparently,
both systems function equally well.
I am going to visit one and open their inspection port to make me a sketch to
install mine. If you would like a copy, send me your address to
kerrjb(at)aol.com
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Orndorff G <OrndorffG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight restrictions |
Joe ,
you are ready the wrong FAR . If a RV is certified homebuild we come under the
same reg's as any other aircraft unless something is put into your operation
and limitation papers....george Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Orndorff G <OrndorffG(at)aol.com> |
Gary ,
Vans has the right engine mount for that engine....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
I recently spent some time thinking about this and decided that an inexpensive
'jab in the ribs' would be to install those low fuel warning switches sold
by Aircraft Spruce. Invest about $50. plus several hours installing and you've
got a system which will tell you that you've got to get down. I've got them
set to alert me of about 4 gallons remaining in eack tank.
I can always add a fuel scanner later.
Brian Eckstein
Proseal over the holidays
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I use one too. Wrap some 320 grit emery paper around it and you can
smooth out those corners very nicely.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-8 this morning!
-----Original Message-----
File under handy hints In the area of tools:
I bought a file used to sharpen chain saws. It is about 5/32
dia. ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
Will,
I believe the F-643 support was short. A friend has an older project that
has the straight firewall. His F-643 was long enough to connect to the
firewall. Also, when I called Vans, the person I spoke to suggested that I
rivet an extension on to the F-643 so that it would connect to the
firewall.
Bob
---
"The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's
and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy cleaning material? |
My neighbor, Tom Benton, who does a spit and polish job on his RV6A about two
times a week is upset because 409 glass cleaner is "improving their product by
adding ammonia and phosphate to it. He would like to know is there a
"homebrew" mixture any one is using or another product that you are happy
with!
Bernie Kerr, Mounting Bulkheads on Fuselage jig of 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC servo speed control |
Ya know, the owner of this list makes a fine MAC servo speed control....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Elevator Trim |
My opinions only. I ordered my empinage kit with electric trim,
but returned it to Vans last week for a credit. I'm sure I would have
liked flying with it, but was concerned with the possibility of
electrical failure or a stuck switch. Flying with a trim stuck at the
extreme position is something I would not care to try. It was a tough
call, but I'm glad I did return the kit.
Rich Zeidman
RV6A S/N25224
emp almost complete- waiting for wing
>
>
> << Sure
> didn't have the experience Don relates. Just checked it and it seems
> strong
> enough to me compared to the manual one I had on my first RV. So if
> no one
> states otherwise, that's what I'm going with.
>
> Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA >>
> Les,
> I cant speculate on what Dons problem was but I thought the electric
> trim
> installation was pretty straight forward. If you can figure out how to
> build
> the rest of the tail, the trim installation is not difficult. I have
> been
> flying my 4 for 3.5 years with electric trim and like it alot. I think
> you will
> find that most people who have negative comments towards electric trim
> dont
> have it, never tryed it, or never gave themselves a chance to get used
> to it.
> Ryan
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
> You have to power 'em down too . . . it's true that caging just
> centers the mechanisms but it also keeps the gimbals from banging
> around due to outside influences. If the rotor is still spinning,
> then there's a lot of stress on the bearings as well. >>
>
>QUESTION: Would a cockpit controlled valve in the vacuum system, or switched
>electrical power to the gyros sufficently protect them during light
>aerobatics????
You mean with no form of caging mechanism . . . I kind 'o doubt it
but a call to the manufacturer of your proposed gryos installation
could sure tell you for sure.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 leading edge skin strapping idea |
Bill, I have a fixture that dad made up to mount the front rib to the spar. I
don't know how the spar/ribs are produced today verses five years ago. This fixture
used the tooling holes in the ribs as aliegnment holes along with the bubble
in the rib made as part of the lightning hole. Difficult to explain. If
I think of it I'll bring it down during my next trip up north. If you can use
it I"ll lone it out but would like it back after your done.
Did you make it to CT Sunday? The winds were blowing pretty good. I got a ride
up north in a 6A w/0-360 C/S to get my 172 on Saturday. With the winds out
of the SW, our ground speed at 5.5K per the GPS was 185Kts! I felt like Chuck
Yager... Gary
>>> KB2DU 12/13 3:56 AM >>>
Any way of getting a small sketch of the jig that lined up the ribs.
Thanks
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
> I am about to begin installation of the Navaid servo unit, under passenger
> seat, according to the instructions supplied Navaid by some builders.
> There are two schemes provided. One sits a bit more forward than the
> other.
When I talked to Navaid, they said the preferred location was in the wing.
They said an in-cockpit installation would almost certainly affect elevator
control. That is, when the unit banks the airplane, it'll put at least a
little pressure on the elevator, mucking up your trim setting.
Something to think about.
-J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC servo speed control |
<< I intend to install a speed control for my electric elevator trim servo.
Since this is a DC motor, I can change the speed by simply changing the
voltage, correct.
Does a speed control need to be any more than a rheostat ? Maybe a variable
voltage regulator driving a sufficiently large power transistor ? >>
Get the Matronics governor from Van's. A voltage reduction reduces motor
torque. I believe Matt's unit varies the duty cycle. Also solves contention
problems and you don't need the relay deck.
-GV
_GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
<< I cant speculate on what Dons problem was but I thought the electric trim
installation was pretty straight forward. >>
I agree. I don't understand why he found it problematic. Yes, the drawing is
poor but it is a simple assembly if you look at it.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Gross wt q's |
Scott:
In exercising my skills at modern math, I find that 1800 lb gross produces
10800 lbs of force at 6 G's. Could a fella assume that if he only pulled, say
5.6 G's, he could increase his max gross to 1900 lb? Or, taken a step further,
could a fella restrict max G to 5.4 and therefore increase max wt to 2000 lb?
These calculations assume that cg is still within normal paramteters, only max
wt increases. I would further assume most folks won't be doing anything more
than X-CY style (don't spill the drinks!) flying while loaded like this.
Folks ARE going to overload these things(all that baggage necessary for the
OSH trip), because the a/c will probably lift just about anything you can cram
into it, unlike a Cessna 140. So, how dangerous is this practice?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
Mlfred wrote:
> In exercising my skills at modern math, I find that 1800 lb gross produces
> 10800 lbs of force at 6 G's. Could a fella assume that if he only pulled, say
> 5.6 G's, he could increase his max gross to 1900 lb? Or, taken a step further,
> could a fella restrict max G to 5.4 and therefore increase max wt to 2000 lb?
Aircraft design involves not only "flight loads" which you
have considered, but also "landing loads".
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: $$$ For RV-6 Aircraft |
Who is this, my name is Carey Mills and I use to be on the airshow circuit. I
just finish my wings and waiting on the fuselage.
May all your days be prosperous and your Knights Golden!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight restrictions |
> If a RV is certified homebuild we come under the
>same reg's as any other aircraft unless something is put into your operation
>and limitation papers....
After your inspection, you get a form, the Experimental Operating
Limitations, listing your test area and restrictions during and after the
flight testing.
There are two "Phases" in certification of Experimental aircraft: Phase I is
the initial 25 or 40 hours of flight testing and includes several
restrictions, including the test area. Number 3 of 10 restrictions reads:
3. Except for takeoffs and landings, no person may operate this
aircraft over densely populated areas or in congested airways.
Phase II is after the test time has been flown off and the aircraft is now
certified as an Experimental Aircraft. However, the form states that most
limitations still apply, including Number 3. (and 1, 7, 8, 9, 10. I can
list them, if anyone is interested.)
SO......does this mean if I fly over Denver (or any other city) on a cross
country, I am in violation of the FAR's? We need to research this. I'll
ask the EAA and post my findings.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q (FLYING)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hill <hill(at)ti.com> |
I have a question... everyone has suggested how to fabricate a solution
to remind you when to switch tanks. Instead is there any reason not
to just have a both selector for the fuel? Would it be that simple?
Seeing that every low wing I've flown has a left/right selector there
must be more to it. But I can't see why the engine can't draw from both,
have a cessna style L/R/Both selector or something.
>
>I've read recently that a pilot had a problem with keeping track of two
>tanks. He bought two inexpensive timing wrist watches, velcro ed them to
>his instrument panel and set them for a 30 minute count down each.
>By setting the watch part to 1200, he was able to get a reminder to
>switch tanks as well as being aware of time of tank usage per each tank.
>I think that could reduce the proposition of running out of gas quite a
>bit.
>
>Larry Mac Donald
Chris Hill; RV-8 wannabe builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: MAC servo speed control |
| From: | m.talley(at)juno.com (Michael L Talley) |
On the big Boeing airplanes I worked on for many years the pitch trim
(stabilizer trim actually) speed is tied to the flaps. When the flaps go
down the trim servo runs faster. I have toyed with doing this on my
RV-6. Shouldn'd be a big deal. One of the airplanes I flew before
deciding on an RV (Glastar I think) had electric trim and it was a little
too fast at cruise and too slow at approach speeds. Just need a switch on
the flap linkage tied to the servo speed control. A look at failure modes
is in order also although the RV-6A demo ride I had at the factory told
me you can overpower an out of trim condition without too much problem.
Worse case may be an unintended trim run away. The big Boeings have a
trim cutout switch to work a runaway.
Mike Talley skinning the second wing - RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
>When I talked to Navaid, they said the preferred location was in the wing.
>They said an in-cockpit installation would almost certainly affect elevator
>control. That is, when the unit banks the airplane, it'll put at least a
>little pressure on the elevator, mucking up your trim setting.
I don't have that problem with my under seat/ co-pilot stick installation
but I do agree that the wing installation would be better and probably
easier. For future service, a wing installation should be easier to get to
the servo---fewer screws.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Rivets clost to web |
Any advice on driving rivets straight when close to a web?
On some ribs I have 470 rivets close to the web and can't buck them
straight. Rivets act like some force pulls them to the web.
Same problem with elevator pre-punched bottom hinge brackets even using
c-frame for tool alignment.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, 757-886-1161,
RV-6/6A 25088 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
Chris Hill wrote:
> I have a question... everyone has suggested how to fabricate a solution
> to remind you when to switch tanks. Instead is there any reason not
> to just have a both selector for the fuel? Would it be that simple?
> Seeing that every low wing I've flown has a left/right selector there
> must be more to it. But I can't see why the engine can't draw from both,
> have a cessna style L/R/Both selector or something.
I currently fly a YAK-52, low winger, that has only
a fire/fuel shutoff, no other selector. So, there
must be a way to do it. It does have a "header tank"
that permits up to three minutes of inverted flight.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I spoke to a Sigma-Tek rep a while ago about this -- he
told me that modern high quality gyros (like theirs)
are built to take aerobatics, and not to power them
down for aero. Also said the caging feature is only
for quick realignment after a tumble.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
<< I also found that I do not have the required 0.063" material for the horn.
>>
Mark,
If I remember correctly the 0.063 material for the horn is 2 pieces of 0.032
angle sandwitched together and pop riveted to the tab. It doesent look like
much to begin with but it works very well.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
>The manual trim on the RV-6 has to much
>slop in the cable where it makes the bend in the cockpit,
>Now having mentioned the slop in the trim cable I have to say things
>may have changed since I finished my airplane in 1989.
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
As I've said, before, I don't really notice any slop in my trim cable
installation. But, Jerry is probably more of a precision pilot than I and
would notice such things:)
I don't really like the bend of the cable (possible wear point) or the way
the manual trim is mounted (obtrusive). I have thought about ordering a
shorter cable so that there is no bend. The knob would then be able to be
mounted with the button (not needed) pointing forward and the knob could be
mounted in front of the fuel valve, low and out of the way.
Saying that, I do have the electric trim sitting in the box and had
intended on using it on my second six. I can see pros and cons to each
installation.
One idea that has been discussed on the list and would be ideal for
retrofit and may be of interest to those using electric trim is to use the
manual trim tab set up and mount the trim servo in the aft fuselage instead
of the elevator. You would have to order a special cable to go from the
servo to the trim tab but I like this idea better than mounting the servo in
the elevator.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Waves/Composites |
>I've reviewed the archives on methods to eliminate the waves which become
>apparent in Van's wingtips once they see a few heat cycles. Seemingly, the
>best idea was to laminate a thin sheet of foam inside the top surface of the
>tips.
>Kyle Boatright
Kyle,
I've seen a pair of the sandwich constructed wing tips when I was at Art
Chard's shop. I think Jerry Herold made them. It looked like he used 1/4"
foam on the top surface and they were very nice and I'm sure that the foam
was added during fabrication. I don't know how well adding 1/4" foam to
already made tips would work. I don't think, if the top surface of the tips
were already wavy or warped, that adding the 1/4" foam would help much. I
put little foam "hat sections" every 5 inches or so, span wise to try &
straighten out my "as received" wavy tips. I did this in steps so I could
place weights over two hat sections at a time to try & flatten out the
waviness. This did help quite a bit but did create another problem.
Shrinkage of the fiberglass caused a very slight distortion in the top
surface. It's not nearly as noticable as the waviness, but it's there.
These hat sections show up very well under certain atmospheric conditions
(dew). I don't think I will take the time or add the weight on my next set
of tips.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 leading edge skin fit |
>>In pulling the leading edge skin tight to the nose ribs..it seems
like
> there won't be enough material left to trim away at the bottom edge
> where it meets with the outboard lower wing skin. There's just not
> enough material to maintain minimum rivet hole to edge distance along
> the spar rivet line after filing away on it.
>
I pulled the leading edge skin down to exactly mate with the main skins.
The seam is perfect and the rivets are in the factory punched holes. The
nose ribs themselves are pretty tight too. Are you sure you straightened
the nose ribs all the way and that they are really 90 degrees to the spar?
If so you shouldn't have a significant gap.
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC servo speed control |
<< I intend to install a speed control for my electric elevator trim servo. >>
Mark,
Mac trim sells a speed control for their trim unit. I recomend you wait! Save
that extra time and money. Try flying without it first, I think you will find
the speed is just about right as is. If you dont agree you can always add it
later.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | rod-end bearing tool |
Happy Holidays everyone!
Here is an inexpensive gift that you won't even have to hang a stocking
to receive. This is of special interest to those of us who are working
on the emp kit.
I am sure this is not an original idea and certainly not the most
elegant solution to the problem of inserting the rod-end bearings with
out damaging the bearing race; However, here is the super simple and
inexpensive tool I built for this purpose:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/odd-ends.html#bearing tool
Hope this helps take your mind off the shopping malls :-)
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
| Subject: | Any Bay Area RV-6A Builders? |
Hey William -
What night do you want to stop over to see the project? What times
work best for you?
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME working on the sliding canopy...
> ----------
> From: William Sheehan
> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 1997 12:55 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Any Bay Area RV-6A Builders?
>
>
>
> Hi,
> 1) I am seriously interested in gettig na quick build kit for
> the RV-6A. Most interested in viewing and helping someone who
> is in progress. Do you need a second set of hands?
>
> 2) Also potentially interested in buying a kit in progress.
>
> 3) Eventually will be interested in buying and used tools &
> equipment used in construction.
>
> 4) Any ideas on renting a building space?
>
> Thanks,
> William Sheehan
> Menlo Park, CA
>
> I don't got nothing yet....
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
<< Also, the supplemental plans are not to scale and there are no dimensions
for
the trim horn. I guess the dimensions of the horn are not critical and can
be
compensated for by using the servo governor. >>
Mark,
Once you have your motor set up and mounted in your elevator you will have to
draw an imaginary line between the arm of the motor and the front of your tab.
________________________________________________________________________________
with a small hole and screw in your rod. Now you know where and at what angle
the rod comes out at the tab. Now you know the exact location for your tab
horn. Take a nine volt battery, you know a transitor radio battery. Connect
the battery poles to each solid white wire (their are only 2) and run the
motor to each extreme of travel reversing the wires to go in either
dirrection. Measure the distance of travel. Now run the arm in exactly half
way. This will be the nuetral location, in other words this is the position
you want to cut your rod to the proper length and set your up your tab flush
with the rest of the elevator. Now when every thing is set up you will need to
run the motor again with the tab hooked up. Lengthen and enlarge the rod exit
hole as required for rod clearance. Ok Mark even I can understand it now!! If
you dont get it this time im, im, im going to bed. ; )
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A-QB fuselage alignment |
> >I've got the fuselage levelled across the longerons at the forward end. It
> >stays consistently level till aft of the baggage compartment, & then twists
> >off so that there's 3/16" difference in longeron height at the end. This
> >is 3/16" in 4" so the angle is very noticable. Vertically, there's 1/2"
> >error on the 12" centerline of the F612 bulkhead, so the whole tailcone is
> >twisted.
On the non-QB kits, the tailcone is like a noodle until you rivet down
that rear deck (F-614). You can generally take out a lot of twist (or
put some in if you're not careful!) when you clamp that piece on and
drill for the rivets.
So you might consider drilling the F-614 off and getting a new one and
back-drilling it on with the fuselage braced in the proper orientation.
You'd probably need a good angle drill or snake attachment. You could
take off the old piece, back-drill a few index holes in the new one,
then cut the old piece in half and use each half separately as a
template, using the index holes for alignment, to drill the remaining
holes in the new piece.
The alternative is to shim the HS. That may be easiest, and in
fact the HS alignment is probably the only real problem you would
end up with as a result of a twisted tailcone.
Of course you could demand that Van's replace the fuselage, but
I think that would be a real pain in the a** not only for Van's but
for you as well.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
Listers,
I have been in the process of rebuilding an RV4 with bent landing gear and a
few firewall problems. I have it on the new tall gear with a new engine mount.
After installing the the engine and installing the cowl I have decided this
cowl isnt going to work any more. Shimming isnt going to cut it either. Trust
me its a mess the guy who did the finish work on this airplane should be in
airplane jail. Any way, to make a long story short!! I need a cowl for an RV4
preferably the old style with the straight inlet ( no provisions for a
filtered airbox). Any one got one they want to get rid of.
Ryan RV4131RB(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Dinkler" <dinkster(at)one.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Wing Wiring |
Wings are on jigs, skins are drilled and I am currently planning the
placement of the wiring runs from the wing's landing, nav, and strobes
lights to the inboard rib. What is the best solution for exiting the wires
from the inboard rib through to the fuselage? Will running wires through
the leading edge bay and under the tank baffle allow exiting without a
kink, or is it better to exit from the main bay somewhere?
'Dink' RV-4
nto perspective, I was
being somewhat obtuse and facetious. You're quite right... no amount of
extra tanks will stop people from running out of gas. They'll just go
further before they do.
Accurate fuel gauges *may* help. But people still run out of gas in cars
which have accurate gauges *and* low fuel warning lights.
I suspect the real problem is not having the gas you *wish* you had.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I spoke to a Sigma-Tek rep a while ago about this -- he
>told me that modern high quality gyros (like theirs)
>are built to take aerobatics, and not to power them
>down for aero. Also said the caging feature is only
>for quick realignment after a tumble.
Nothing quashes conjecture better than data.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
> I used to ride shotgun for one of our renters at Benton Apt (1K1)
> and watched him shoot ILS to minimums with both gyros covered
> (i.e. needle-ball-airspeed)
Hi Bob,
As a part time pilot, I am not sure my skills will be up to that level.
Therefore, for IMC I believe that I will need a backup Horizon to feel
comforable. Correct me if I am wrong here but I believe that statistics
indicate that vacuum failures in IMC are very often fatal?
I therefore conclude that needle/ball/airspeed using a T/C is not a viable
alternative to a horizon ( even though the FAA says that it is ). I think
of this as extending the failure analysis to include the likely performance
of the human in the chain. Since the T/C has no real value in VFR flying,
I then conclude that it is essentially "useless".
I have made no hard and fast decisions yet as I am still on my wings.
Nonetheless, I am trying to think hard about how I equip this airplane and
I am very much interested in the logic other people use when they make
these decisions.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC servo speed control |
>On the big Boeing airplanes I worked on for many years the pitch trim
>(stabilizer trim actually) speed is tied to the flaps. When the flaps go
>down the trim servo runs faster. I have toyed with doing this on my
>RV-6. Shouldn'd be a big deal. One of the airplanes I flew before
>deciding on an RV (Glastar I think) had electric trim and it was a little
>too fast at cruise and too slow at approach speeds. Just need a switch on
>the flap linkage tied to the servo speed control. A look at failure modes
>is in order also although the RV-6A demo ride I had at the factory told
>me you can overpower an out of trim condition without too much problem.
>Worse case may be an unintended trim run away. The big Boeings have a
>trim cutout switch to work a runaway.
I designed and built the two speed trim systems for the Learjets and
did an SAE paper on the evolution of electronic controlled trim systems.
I think the company I used to work for is still building the 1980 design
so the "evolution" is yet to happen. None the less, if anyone is interested
in automatic trim speed selection based on flap position or even an
indicated airspeed sensor, it's easy to do with pretty much off the shelf
goodies. Since no trim happens without your fingers on the button and
hand on the stick, runaway issues are no-brainers.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel issues was Engines for RVs |
Hi all,
Don't even run *LOW* on gas is a good rule.
Good article in latest American Bonanza Society describes how two very
experienced pilots re-fueled their Bonanza's 80 gal (74 useable) tanks with 78.7
gallons - to their surprise and horror. They had several indicators and
automatic doodads. They made a bunch of dumb decisions tho including running
one tank into what they knew was the unuseable range.
I don't pay much attention to gauges but instead calculate fuel based on minutes
of tank useage and I verify this at fillup time by watching how much goes into
each tank. Usually, I well am within 10%. Then, I require that I have at least
an hour VFR and two IFR when I land. The large tanks give me range, reserve and
room for error. If my tanks held 1000 gallons, I'd be safer yet.
I (usually) use from the tank on the side the big hand of the clock points to.
I find this helps avoid errors and keeps me aware of time and fuel. I set a
timer to remind me of the change but try to be there before it goes off. This
also helps my time consciousness.
A reserve tank in the tail for maybe ten gals would be nice but poses other
risks such as wt & balance and tank usage.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- "Peace on earth, good will to all RV builders"
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Donnelly" <daved(at)humminbird.com> |
I have seen several RV4's which have roll bars with a rounded top as
opposed to the flat top Van provides. The flat-top rollbar looks homemade
whereas the rounded bars look more refined. My question is are these
builders modifying the bars themselves or is an aftermarket roll bar
available? The cutting, bending, welding and finishing while maintaining a
proper fit is beyond my ability.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
<< I need a cowl for an RV4
preferably the old style with the straight inlet ( no provisions for a
filtered airbox). Any one got one they want to get rid of.
Ryan RV4131RB(at)aol.com
>>
Call Sam James: 941-675-4493. He has a mold for the entire nose section, plus
some other nifty stuff.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams Primers |
I just walked into my friendly local Sherwin Williams store and asked after some
of that GBP-988 self-etching acid wash primer, and they looked over my shoulder
into the parking lot to see what kind of spaceship I had just debarked from.
They scratched their heads and shook dust out of their catalogs, and finally said,
"Sonny, we sell paint here.".
I told 'em that I heard about GBP-988 on the Internet so it MUST be true, right?
Does this stuff (GBP-988) go by any other name that I could take down there with
me?
Your wisdom warmly appreciated,
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
08B
does not fail. Ie dual
vacuum system or primary vacuum with backup.
Or
Option 2 - Have a primary pick one (vacuum/eletrical) with a
backup (electrical/vacuum) system
I have even considered something as bizzar as the RAT(Ram Air
Turbine) we had on the F4 only with a venturri instead that I could
deploy at an appropriate time.
I am definitely leaning towards Option 2 with Vacuum primary and
electrical backup horizon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Soundproofing Info Booklet |
Hard-to find-info:
This little "HOW TO" manual was first written in 1992 for the aircraft
mechanic, but is simple enough to follow for the handy plane owner or
homebuilder. It's been recently updated with more info and now
provides info on boats, cars, home and office! Covers materials,
application and fire safety, FAA regulations, certs, sources, etc.
You can get a text file of it (no illustrations) by return e-mail
from our MAILBOT:
soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net
nothing is needed in the text message. Or send your name and address
for a free hard copy (with illustrations) by return US mail. A web
page at:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/page4.html
Interested in aviation? Check out the web site below or
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of interesting stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net Web Site:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
<< I find that 1800 lb gross produces
10800 lbs of force at 6 G's. Could a fella assume that if he only pulled, say
5.6 G's, he could increase his max gross to 1900 lb? Or, taken a step
further,
could a fella restrict max G to 5.4 and therefore increase max wt to 2000 lb?
>>
My understanding was that the 6A is rated +6/-4g at an aerobatic weight of
1375#.
I have established 1600# as the normal gross weight and 1833# as utility gross
weight (+4.5/-3g). You can do the math. I think design limits were +9/-6g.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
<< I ordered my empinage kit with electric trim,
but returned it to Vans last week for a credit. I'm sure I would have
liked flying with it, but was concerned with the possibility of
electrical failure or a stuck switch. Flying with a trim stuck at the
extreme position is something I would not care to try. >>
For the life of me, I don't understand this argument. Trim is trim regardless
of the mechanism used to accomplish it. IMO you are as likely to break a
cable as you are to experience something wrong with the servo system. The
range should be the same in either system and it needs to be limited by design
to only the authority required. This is done by controlling the length of the
pivot arm. If this is done properly, the force required to overcome it in any
situation is very slight.
The following scenario scares me more: If a cable on the manual system breaks
you are quite possibly looking at a fluttering trim tab. This would happen to
the electric system only if the much more robust 10-32 stainless steel
actuating rod broke.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
Regarding electric .vs. vacuum gyros, I am
assuming the mild aerobatics I plan on doing
will kill one or two of my gyros within a few
years, so I figured I'd go with vacuum since
they are much cheaper to replace!
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME working on the sliding canopy...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
charset="us-ascii"
>Hi Bob,
>As a part time pilot, I am not sure my skills will be up to that level.
>Therefore, for IMC I believe that I will need a backup Horizon to feel
>comforable. Correct me if I am wrong here but I believe that statistics
>indicate that vacuum failures in IMC are very often fatal?
>I therefore conclude that needle/ball/airspeed using a T/C is not a viable
>alternative to a horizon ( even though the FAA says that it is ). I think
>of this as extending the failure analysis to include the likely performance
>of the human in the chain. Since the T/C has no real value in VFR flying,
>I then conclude that it is essentially "useless".
>
>I have made no hard and fast decisions yet as I am still on my wings.
>Nonetheless, I am trying to think hard about how I equip this airplane and
>I am very much interested in the logic other people use when they make
>these decisions.
The T/C is a very viable backup to an electric Art. Horizon. It is also
considerably cheaper. A vacuum failure warning light and manifold pressure
backup system is a much better alternative for less money. The fatals due
to Vacuum failure are a result of the upset that occurs from following an
errant horizon in to an unusual attitude. This is followed by the time it
requires to identify the problem and then identify the "liar" and recover
without pulling the wings off. Having two independent Art. Horizons would
not resolve this dilemma. Training and proficiency will.
Tailwinds, RV-4 N240
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Alternator options |
Put me out of my misery, please!
Just tell me what alternator/regulator/overvolt protector and mounting bracket
to buy off the shelf for my O-320/RV-6A installation now that I know I DON'T
want to drop hundreds of $ on a balanced highly engineered purpose-built B&C
unit or similar. A day-VFR sportplane doesn't need a kilobuck in-flight
battery recharging system, I'm convinced. But the VAN's catalog isn't too
helpful in the matter of alternator selection, etc...
Thanks in advance.
Bill Boyd
plan to spend what I save here on a nice li'l GPS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
>
>I have a question... everyone has suggested how to fabricate a solution
>to remind you when to switch tanks. Instead is there any reason not
>to just have a both selector for the fuel? Would it be that simple?
>Seeing that every low wing I've flown has a left/right selector there
>must be more to it. But I can't see why the engine can't draw from both,
>have a cessna style L/R/Both selector or something.
Chris,
With that system:
The first time you let-- A --tank run dry (and you will) May be your last
Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "I THINK, THEREFORE YOU ARE" <PKIRKPATRICK(at)FAB9.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams Primers |
The Sheman Williams primer does exist. The problem is the store. SW has
different stores that either specialize in regular paint or stores that
specialize in automotive finishes. I found out the same way. Find a SW
automotive store.
Pat Kirkpatrick
ng the HS Skeleton
I just walked into my friendly local Sherwin Williams store and asked
after some of that GBP-988 self-etching acid wash primer, and they
looked over my shoulder into the parking lot to see what kind of spaceship
I had just debarked from.
They scratched their heads and shook dust out of their catalogs, and
finally said, "Sonny, we sell paint here.".
I told 'em that I heard about GBP-988 on the Internet so it MUST be
true, right?
Does this stuff (GBP-988) go by any other name that I could take down
there with me?
Your wisdom warmly appreciated,
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
08B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICKRV6 <RICKRV6(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
I used Van's electric elevator trim kit right after it was released a number
of years ago. I do remember the servo mounting brackets being too low but
otherwise there were not any significant problems with the kit but then I
rebuilt that elevator a couple of times and could do it in my sleep. Anyway,
I think you'll find you won't use near the amount of trim throw available so
interference at full up or down isn't a big problem. The strength of the trim
tab horn seemed fine. I had over 500 hours on my plane when I sold it last
summer and had no problems with the strength of the trim tab horn.
Rick McBride
RV6 N523JC
RV8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
> Just tell me what alternator/regulator/overvolt protector and mounting
bracket
> to buy off the shelf for my O-320/RV-6A installation... A day-VFR
sportplane doesn't need a kilobuck in-flight
> battery recharging system, I'm convinced.
Here's what I've been looking at...Van's alternator kit ($140), Van's
adjustable regulator ($45), and Aeroconnection OV protection ($35)...that's
$220 total.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Yuma area builders |
I will be spending Jan, Feb and March in the Yuma Arizona area. I would be
willing to offer assistance,swap some tall stories or imbibe in some local
bubbly. Please email off list at ve7fp(at)jetstream.net
Merry Christmas and safe flying to all.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
160 HP/CS First flight Sept 8/93
too busy building to take note. Just something to keep our eye on and not
be too complacent about.
Text from EAA Sport Aviation, December 1997
"Without pressure from the federal government, NASCAR is working with its
racing fuel supplier, the Ford Motor Company, General Motors and various
NASCAR racing teams to develop a lead free racing fuel. NASCAR currently
has a government exemption that allows the use of fuel containing
tetraethyl lead in its racing events, but the sanctioning body knows it is
simply a matter of time before even special uses of leaded fuels will be
banned."
"So, how does this relate to aviation? Unfortunately, NASCAR's impending
switch to unleaded gasoline just further isolates piston engine aircraft as
the last major users of leaded gasoline. Were it not for the tens of
thousands of holders of EAA and Peterson STC's using unleaded auto gasoline
in their 80 octane rated aircraft - perhaps a third of the active
lightplane fleet - the pressure would be even greater for the EPA to exert
its authority and immediately ban leaded avgas. That would, of course,
ground at least half the current piston engine fleet and create total
economic chaos in the general aviation community. Work is currently
underway to come up with a specification for an unleaded substitute for 80
octane avgas (which is a needless exercise for auto fuel STC holders), and
to develop an unleaded 100 octane avgas, but progress is glacial at best.
The NASCAR action will take place virtually overnight...because Bill France
decree that it does...so the EPA will then expect a similar speed-up in the
development of unleaded avgas by the ASTM, FAA, the oil companies and the
aircraft engine manufacturers."
"All of us who own aircraft with 100 octane rated engines stand to be
harmed the most should the EPA lose patience with the snail's pace of
progress toward an unleaded 100 octane avgas, so our message to the ASTM,
FAA, the oil companies and Lycoming and Continental is to...literally and
figuratively...get the lead out!"
We can all hope that this will not occur and perhaps it never will.
However, a statement was made that the installation of alternative engine
powerplants would likely leave us with no value or resale value.
Interestingly enough, there is a slight potential that the shoe might be on
the other foot. Just food for thought.
Happy holidays,
Charles
N609CG
Chevy powered
will I ever get this instrument panel designed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Robbins" <robm(at)am2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
If you want the minimum alternator for VFR, go to your local wrecking yard
and buy a toyota corolla alternator for $25.00. Its the same nippodenso
(spelling?) that several people are selling with mounts. Rig a mount. The
stock lyc. mount is easily modified. The Japanese regulator voltages tend
to run on the high side which is where you want it. I did this and my first
battery has lasted 6 years. The alternator is still working flawlessly
after approx 500 hours.
Mitch Robbins
http://am2.com
>
>Put me out of my misery, please!
>Just tell me what alternator/regulator/overvolt protector and mounting
bracket
>to buy off the shelf for my O-320/RV-6A installation now that I know I
DON'T
>want to drop hundreds of $ on a balanced highly engineered purpose-built
B&C
>unit or similar. A day-VFR sportplane doesn't need a kilobuck in-flight
>battery recharging system, I'm convinced. But the VAN's catalog isn't too
>helpful in the matter of alternator selection, etc...
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Bill Boyd
>plan to spend what I save here on a nice li'l GPS
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: $$$ For RV-6 Aircraft |
Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>May all your days be prosperous and your Knights Golden!
<
I suspect you are a former Golden Knight?
I worked with the Black demo team in 89 for an airshow ar Ellsworth AFB and
a couple other demos inthe area. The most fun I had in the AF while on the
ground. A great bunch of guys!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
.com>
> I have thought that I have basically two alternatives. Please
>correct me or give me additional thoughts on this, and remember I always
>must factor cost in this but I do consider my "butt" unreplaceable.
>
> Option 1 - Make sure the vacuum system does not fail. Ie dual
>vacuum system or primary vacuum with backup.
> Or
> Option 2 - Have a primary pick one (vacuum/eletrical) with a
>backup (electrical/vacuum) system
Here's a third Option.
Have a primary electrical and a backup electrical using B&C's 8 amp
alternator driven off the gear on the Lycoming that normally drives the
vacuum. That way if your alternator goes out you have an emergency
alternator to run the essential equipment. Of course, this means
electrical DG's and Horizions.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6a wing skinning
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: faa data base |
boundary="part0_882232739_boundary"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--part0_882232739_boundary
--part0_882232739_boundary
From: Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com>
Subject: faa data base
Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 19:22:02 EST
I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s. I was wondering if you could
e-mail it to me. I could not find it anywhere on their web page. I'm
building a RV-4 and I would like to reserve a n # or see if someone has taken
the one I want.
Blue Skies,
Carey Mills
--part0_882232739_boundary--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anchor Nut Spacing Seat Floor |
| From: | tcastella(at)juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
Can anyone tell me what the anchor nut spacing for F-641 plate is.
Drawing number 37 does not give the spacing for F-641. The spacing for
F648 plate
is given as 4 inches, so would I be correct in assuming that the spacing
for F-641
is also 4 inches?
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Gross wt q's |
The question was:
> In exercising my skills at modern math, I find that 1800 lb gross
produces
> 10800 lbs of force at 6 G's. Could a fella assume that if he only pulled,
say
> 5.6 G's, he could increase his max gross to 1900 lb? Or, taken a step
further,
> could a fella restrict max G to 5.4 and therefore increase max wt to 2000
lb?
One part of the answer is:
>Aircraft design involves not only "flight loads" which you
>have considered, but also "landing loads". >>
Another part of the answer is that, if the overload is concentrated in the
fuse (in the form of people and junque), the wing bending force (moment) will
increase much faster than if the load was distributed evenly along the wing.
Imagine if you took a 10' piece of 2"x4" lumber and laid it horizontally on
two sawhorses spread 10' apart. If you hung a large weight (say 250 lb) from
one point at the center of your 2x4, it would probably break. However, if you
spread ten 25lb weights (a total of 250 lb) across the 2x4, it might hold.
The difference is because the point load causes higher bending forces...
Kyle Boatright
RV-6 this Century
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>
><< I find that 1800 lb gross produces
> 10800 lbs of force at 6 G's. Could a fella assume that if he only
>pulled, say
> 5.6 G's, he could increase his max gross to 1900 lb? Or, taken a step
>further,
> could a fella restrict max G to 5.4 and therefore increase max wt to
>2000 lb?
>>>
>
>My understanding was that the 6A is rated +6/-4g at an aerobatic
>weight of
>1375#.
>I have established 1600# as the normal gross weight and 1833# as
>utility gross
>weight (+4.5/-3g). You can do the math. I think design limits were
>+9/-6g.
The + 9 is the ultimate limit 1.5 X's the design limit of 6 G's.
This extra 3 G's shold not be counted on for flight, it is a designed in
safety factor only as protection for construction errors, etc.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams Primers |
The product code for this is E2-988. Since this is a spray can product, you
may find that not every store carries it (or knows that it exists). The
sprayable type is E2-980 and any of the S-W automotive paint stores should
have it.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
I just walked into my friendly local Sherwin Williams store and asked after
some of that GBP-988 self-etching acid wash primer, and they looked over my
shoulder into the parking lot to see what kind of spaceship I had just
debarked from.
They scratched their heads and shook dust out of their catalogs, and finally
said, "Sonny, we sell paint here.".
I told 'em that I heard about GBP-988 on the Internet so it MUST be true,
right?
Does this stuff (GBP-988) go by any other name that I could take down there
with me?
Your wisdom warmly appreciated,
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
08B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Scott:
>
>In exercising my skills at modern math, I find that 1800 lb gross
>produces
>10800 lbs of force at 6 G's. Could a fella assume that if he only
>pulled, say
>5.6 G's, he could increase his max gross to 1900 lb? Or, taken a step
>further,
>could a fella restrict max G to 5.4 and therefore increase max wt to
>2000 lb?
Builders of RV-4's, 6's, and ^A's do this all the time. Usually out of
necessity. If you build a heavy RV and you want to carry 2 people with
full fuel and much baggage they often need a higher gross weight
certification to fly legally. The gross weight is what ever you apply
for and test the airplane too during flight testing.
Keep In Mind - that the published max gross weight for all RV's is NOT
the aerobatic gross weight so if you increase your gross above what is
recomended by Van than you don't start reducing your max loading from 6
G's. I believe the max gross is at utility load limits 4.3 ( or 4.4 ,
can't remember which) The max loading of 6 G's is at a reduced gross
weight as listed in your construction man.
But you should keep in mind that the control forces don't get heavier
just because you are flying in a configuration that you don't PLAN to
induce many G's. Also you would have to use a different speed for
maneuvering speed, yellow arc range, etc.
>These calculations assume that cg is still within normal parameters,
>only max
>wt increases. I would further assume most folks won't be doing
>anything more
>than X-CY style (don't spill the drinks!) flying while loaded like
>this.
>
>Folks ARE going to overload these things(all that baggage necessary
>for the
>OSH trip), because the a/c will probably lift just about anything you
>can cram
>into it, unlike a Cessna 140. So, how dangerous is this practice?
Probably depends entirely on the pilot that is flying the airplane.
I have seen a WIDE range of piloting skills in RV pilots, regardless of
how many flying hours they have.
Can any of you CFI"s that do RV BFR"s comment?
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Thinking about this gyros issue myself.
Here are prices on gyro systems from Chief Aircraft new catalog:
Component Vacuum System Electric System
Attitude Ind 415 1345
Direction Ind 415 1350
Pump 350
Regulator 170
Filter 35
Gauge 60
Plumbing 100
Low Vac/power ind ??? included (flag)
1545 2695
Standby Vac sys 1660
Standby Battery 40
Totals 3205 2735
Instruments are all RC Allen - Sigma tek pump
Advantages & Disadvantages
The electrics are easier to remove for acro - vac line must be neither
open nor plugged. Can they be switched off under CAVU and last still
longer??
Electrics said to last much longer?
Electric has fewer "points of failure" 3 versus 9 components
Wet pump system also needs oil recovery unit, dry pump system hideously
unreliable
Electric solves pump mounting/driving problem for alt engines
Vac is usually w/o standby & so, cheaper, esp when considering time value of
money (your money could be in stocks :-) - or the bank )
Electric is less labor to install
My experience is that gyros need overhaul every 1.5 or 2.0 years.
Other ideas???
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- "Peace on earth, good will to all RV builders"
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Rivets clost to web |
Generally I look for: rivets too long (go down half size or cut), holes not
lined up, holes to big, too much pressure on gun side pushing in skin and rib
flange putting rivet out of alignment with bucking bar, bucking bar not held
square to rivet end (may be held crooked because of stiffener ring being in
way). Can't think of anything else off-hand. Hope this helps.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
rv-List message posted by: John Bright
Any advice on driving rivets straight when close to a web?
On some ribs I have 470 rivets close to the web and can't buck them
straight. Rivets act like some force pulls them to the web.
Same problem with elevator pre-punched bottom hinge brackets even using
c-frame for tool alignment.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, 757-886-1161,
RV-6/6A 25088 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
Suppose the point load is directly over one of the saw horses??? Or just one
foot away??
<;-}
hal
> Imagine if you took a 10' piece of 2"x4" lumber and laid it horizontally on
> two sawhorses spread 10' apart. If you hung a large weight (say 250 lb) from
> one point at the center of your 2x4, it would probably break. However, if you
> spread ten 25lb weights (a total of 250 lb) across the 2x4, it might hold.
> The difference is because the point load causes higher bending forces...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Western Canada Rvator |
Thanks, Ken, for the introduction. A small correction: my street
address is "Angus" Place--not "Argus" Place. The Argus was a fine
airplane but, sadly, the street I live on is not named after it.
(I'll let you guess which Argus I mean.)
I might as well take this opportunity to say hello to any WCRVator
readers on the list. I'm excited about taking over the newsletter
from Ken, and I hope I can eventually come close to matching the
fine job he's done. If you have any suggestions at all regarding
the newsletter, please email them to me at tedd(at)idacom.hp.com.
While you're at it, feel free to submit an article or letter.
People are always interested in who's building and what their
unique ideas and circumstances are, so even a short introduction
to yourself is a viable article. Don't be shy.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
[-6 tail]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Chris Hill wrote:
>
>
> I have a question... everyone has suggested how to fabricate a solution
> to remind you when to switch tanks. Instead is there any reason not
> to just have a both selector for the fuel? Would it be that simple?
> Seeing that every low wing I've flown has a left/right selector there
> must be more to it. But I can't see why the engine can't draw from both,
> have a cessna style L/R/Both selector or something.
>
> Chris Hill; RV-8 wannabe builder
>
Chris the reason being that you have a elec. fuel pump pumping fuel to
the engine from one tank or the other. If you are pumping from both
tanks and the tanks get low on fuel you can unport the fuel pickup of
one tank and then you will be pumping air, not good. For aircraft that
have header tanks this is not a problem because the fuel is being fed
to the engine from the header tank. Also this is not a problem with
high wing aircraft such as 172's etc. because they are usually
gravity feed.
Jerry
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
>
> >>They said an in-cockpit installation would almost certainly affect
> >elevator
> >>control. That is, when the unit banks the airplane, it'll put at
> >least a
> >>little pressure on the elevator, mucking up your trim setting.
> >
>
> >From my experience with the under seat installations this does happen
> but when it tends to be noticeable is with the auto pilot turned on
> during something more than light turbulence.
> Since it is making a lot of very quick inputs back and forth to the left
> and right it tends to induce some pitch input since the rod is not
> exactly parallel to the roll access. with very light turb or just
> holding headings its inputs are smooth and slow and do not tend to effect
> pitch much.
>
> Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
I have never found this to be true with my under the seat installation
but I did run the servo control tube across and attach it to the
bottom of the pilot control stick so the angle would not be so great as the
control stick is moved forward and back for elev. control.
My guess is most of us will be holding on to the stick in anything more
than light turbulence without a altitude hold autopilot.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
Mitch Robbins wrote:
>
>
> If you want the minimum alternator for VFR, go to your local wrecking yard
> and buy a toyota corolla alternator for $25.00. Its the same nippodenso
> (spelling?) that several people are selling with mounts. Rig a mount. The
> stock lyc. mount is easily modified. The Japanese regulator voltages tend
> to run on the high side which is where you want it. I did this and my first
> battery has lasted 6 years. The alternator is still working flawlessly
> after approx 500 hours.
>
> Mitch Robbins
> http://am2.com
>
I did the same thing with a Chev Sprint alternator $45.00 from wrecking
yard $2.00 to have it tested. I then made my own brackets and never
did any mods to it at all. I know this makes Bob N. cringe but it has
worked for over 8 yrs and 800 hrs.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams Primers |
>>I just walked into my friendly local Sherwin Williams store and asked after
some >>of that GBP-988 self-etching acid wash primer.. They scratched
their >>heads and shook dust out of their catalogs, and finally said, "Sonny,
we sell >>paint here.".
Sherwin Williams has several distribution channels. When I was looking for
their self-etching primer in spray cans, I had to call one of their
"industrial products" stores (actually more like car painting stuff). The
folks at the local house paint location didn't have a clue...
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Sherwin Williams Primers |
>>I just walked into my friendly local Sherwin Williams store and asked after
some >>of that GBP-988 self-etching acid wash primer.. They scratched
their >>heads and shook dust out of their catalogs, and finally said, "Sonny,
we sell >>paint here.".
Sherwin Williams has several distribution channels. When I was looking for
their self-etching primer in spray cans, I had to call one of their
"industrial products" stores (actually more like car painting stuff). The
folks at the local house paint location didn't have a clue...
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WmFletcher <"fletcher(at)polarnet.com"(at)polarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Test Msg and RV-3 request |
Has anyone started a rv-3 wing modification that has wing tanks? I ran
ito a problem with the placenuts interfering with angle modification?
Thanks- Bill Fletcher- N89RV - fletcher(at)polarnet.com
This is my first msg on this service.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter B. Mortensen" <"n21pe(at)gte.net"(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | JIG, fuselage, RV-4 |
Hi,
I have a fuse JIG for sale for an RV-4. It comes apart in the middle
for easy transportation in a pickup truck. It is made of laminated
plywood instead of two by fours. So far it has made two RV-4
fuselages. I live in Renton Washington (near Seattle). Anyone
interested in acquiring this jig please contact me personally (off
list). The jig is now in my way and I will make you a deal you can't
refuse.
Peter B. Mortensen
n21pe(at)gte.net
RV-4 builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
>I did the same thing with a Chev Sprint alternator $45.00 from wrecking
>yard $2.00 to have it tested. I then made my own brackets and never
>did any mods to it at all. I know this makes Bob N. cringe but it has
>worked for over 8 yrs and 800 hrs.
Naw . . . the modern automotive alternator is MUCH more reliable
than any certified alternator/regulator combo flying today. Your
risks of an overvoltage condition are quite low . . . but they're
not ZERO. What are you using for active notification of out of
tolerance voltage condtions . . . either high or low?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: faa data base |
>I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s. I was wondering if you could
>e-mail it to me. I could not find it anywhere on their web page. I'm
>building a RV-4 and I would like to reserve a n # or see if someone has
taken
>the one I want.
>Blue Skies,
>Carey Mills
Try *THIS* URL:
http://www1.drive.net/evird.acgi$pass*2668469!mtd*7!map*_landings/images/lan
dings-strip.map?21,41#n-number
Sorry for the long URL, copy it and paste it into your browser, or go to
www.landings.com and work your way down through several layers to find this
page and then bookmark it.
I searched the last 3 N#s I reserved on these pages and found them to be
very current.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Here's a third Option.
>
>Have a primary electrical and a backup electrical using B&C's 8 amp
>alternator driven off the gear on the Lycoming that normally drives the
>vacuum. That way if your alternator goes out you have an emergency
>alternator to run the essential equipment. Of course, this means
>electrical DG's and Horizions.
This is the system installed by Dean Hall in his RV-4. As long
as you've got the vacuum pump pad open AND you're all electric
gyros . . . the little 8-amp alternator makes more than good
sense.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | solar battery chargers |
>Bob,
>
>I see an add in Trade a Plane for a solar batter charger run off the
>cigarette lighter. Are these any good or is it just a gimmick?
>
>Regards,
>Tom
Not at all. Cigar lighters on most cars are always hot
which provides a convenient way to pump energy into the
electrical system without getting under the hood or having
any other accessories on.
Most "chargers" are really pretty good "maintainers" as their
output is simply too low to be a practical means for bringing
a really dead battery up to full charge. Also, if left on
too long . . . they can damage a battery. As a maintainer,
the goal is to just offset the battery's internal self
discharge rate . . . something on the order of 30-100 milliamperes
depending on battery age and technology. Anything more than
this will cause water to be driven off.
I'm working on an article whereby one may use a derivation of
our regulated dimmer assembly to put between the solar array
and the battery to be maintained. Also, at OSH last year
I spoke with Mr. Everett Yost who has several booths there
selling all sorts of batteries including solar arrays. He
is going to have some relatively low cost arrays capable of
actually charging a battery . . . on the order of 1 amp output
or so. These will indeed require some sort of regulation.
I'll be working up a handout for him to describe construction
of an appropriate regulator or get it off our website.
Keep an eye on our articles index page for the information to
show up.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Sherwin Williams Primers |
>
>I just walked into my friendly local Sherwin Williams store and asked after
some of that GBP-988 self-etching acid wash primer, and they looked over my
shoulder into the parking lot to see what kind of spaceship I had just
debarked from.
>
>They scratched their heads and shook dust out of their catalogs, and
finally said, "Sonny, we sell paint here.".
>
>I told 'em that I heard about GBP-988 on the Internet so it MUST be true,
right?
>
>Does this stuff (GBP-988) go by any other name that I could take down there
with me?
>
>Your wisdom warmly appreciated,
>
>Nick Knobil
>Bowdoinham, Maine
>08B
>
Nick,
The Sherwin Williams primer I am using (recommended by Van's prototype shop)
is the #P60G2 Wash Primer and #R7K44 Catalyst Reducer. My local Sherwin
Williams store stocked it, about $50 total for a gallon of each.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
t and the spar, necessitating a .032 spacer for the
lower portion of the junction. Am I supposed to line up and drill the rib
flange to the middle row of holes in the reinforcement plate and spar? This
would make sense to me, but the instructions say nothing about drilling a
3/8" hole through the flange for the rod end bearing to pass through on it's
way to the nutplate. The other question in my mind is why attach the
nutplate to the rudder horn? Why not run AN470's all the way through the
whole mess? The holes line up.....
Any knowledge would be cherished..... :-)
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dry Cell Battery |
> I am planning on using a Concord RG battery. Any reason not to?
>Sounds like you favor this type of battery.
> Mike Hilger
> RV-6, fuse top
Oh you bet . . . I wouldn't run any other kind of battery in an
airplane. There are a lot of capable suppliers for this technology
out there including Concord. Just spoke with Skip Koss of Concord's
marketing department . . . found him on an air base in Florida. Seems
somebody was raising a fuss about having, "A whole pallet of bad
batteries down here. We need to find a different supplier." Skip
flew down to talk with them and see what the problem was . . . every
one of the batteries had been in service in training helicopters for
over three years and had thousands of hours on them! After checking
the service records, the complainer decided that maybe they were really
OK batteries after all.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Just tell me what alternator/regulator/overvolt protector and mounting
>bracket to buy off the shelf for my O-320/RV-6A installation now that I
know I
>DON'T want to drop hundreds of $ on a balanced highly engineered
>purpose-built B&C unit or similar. A day-VFR sportplane doesn't need a
kilobuck
I used Van's alternator kit (alt, bracket, mounts) and the fixed solid
state regulator. The alternator required some "adjustment" of the
mounting ears to get it to line up properly with the mount, but wasn't
too bad. A "V" belt from the local auto parts (horrors!) store, and a
B&C overvoltage module rounds it out for around $220.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Hi Bob,
>As a part time pilot, I am not sure my skills will be up to that level.
>Therefore, for IMC I believe that I will need a backup Horizon to feel
>comforable. Correct me if I am wrong here but I believe that statistics
>indicate that vacuum failures in IMC are very often fatal?
They are indeed.
>I therefore conclude that needle/ball/airspeed using a T/C is not a viable
>alternative to a horizon ( even though the FAA says that it is ). I think
>of this as extending the failure analysis to include the likely performance
>of the human in the chain. Since the T/C has no real value in VFR flying,
>I then conclude that it is essentially "useless".
If spending the time and effort to become NBA proficient (admittedly
it's no mean task) is not an option, then consider making your turn
coordinator both the instrument AND servo of a NavAid wing leveler.
I wouldn't spend more than time to punch through a layer while hand
flying on gyros. I've done it for 2 hours at a time under the hood,
I CAN do it and would if I had to but I find that it takes a lot
of fun out of flying. IMHO a wing leveler (especially one with
tracking capability) will increase your IFR reliability more than
a second gyro . . . I'll guarantee you'll arrive at your destination
ready to do someting besides take a nap!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anita Dockstader?? |
| From: | gretz-aero(at)juno.com (Warren Gretz) |
I sure don't want to spoil Anita's Christmas gift surprise, but I need
help in contacting her. Anita Dockstader from Marshfield, MO paid me for
a RV-6A ToolKey which I sent to her. It came back to me marked no
fordwarding address. I have attempted to contact her by phone but there
is no listing.
Does anyone know Anita and how to contact her???? Please help me!
Thank you.
Warren Gretz
(303) 770-3811
gretz-aero(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn/Spar |
>Obviously the lower reinforcement plate (R-606PP) goes on the forward side
>of the spar. The rudder horn (R-405PD) goes on the aft side of the spar
>with the 3/8 holes lined up for the rod end bearing. This is where the mind
>goes fuzzy for me. The way I read the plans is that the K-1000-6 nutplate
>is riveted directly to the rudder horn with AN426 rivets, flush head
>forward. The forward flange of the R-404 lower rib slips over the top of
>the rudder horn between it and the spar, necessitating a .032 spacer for the
>lower portion of the junction. Am I supposed to line up and drill the rib
>flange to the middle row of holes in the reinforcement plate and spar?
Thats how I did it.
> This would make sense to me, but the instructions say nothing about
drilling a
>3/8" hole through the flange for the rod end bearing to pass through on it's
>way to the nutplate.
I didn't have to drill a 3/8" hole, but I did have to take a semi-circular
cut out of the flange and the .032 spacer.
The other question in my mind is why attach the
>nutplate to the rudder horn? Why not run AN470's all the way through the
>whole mess? The holes line up.....
Jon, That is what I did and it came out rv-perfect.
>Any knowledge would be cherished..... :-)
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rver(at)caljet.com
rv-6a skinning wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rox11 <Rox11(at)aol.com> |
I just tried to rivit the horizontal stabilizer and left some nasty dings and
dents learning to use a rivit gun. The question is can these be repaired or
should I go back to golf and give this up?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
>Here's what I've been looking at...Van's alternator kit ($140), Van's
adjustable
>regulator ($45), and Aeroconnection OV protection ($35)...that's $220
total.
>
>Rob (RV-6Q).
I just got the AeroConnection book (35.00). Well worth the $.
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: faa data base |
>From: Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com> I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s.
http://www1.drive.net/evird.acgi$pass*6543087!mtd*7!map*_landings/images/lan
dings-strip.map?21,42#n-number
If you are like me, it would take all day to type in that address, so do
the following:
www.landings.com then click on search on the left side of the top box
then click on N-number DB
then pick the type of search you want
I just went thru it and the # I want is still available. It has been
available for about 2 years.Its the number of a plane I once owned.
Good luck with the above
Bruce Knoll
RV6A to be QB
Empennage Started
snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
>Just tell me what alternator/regulator/overvolt protector and mounting bracket
>to buy off the shelf for my O-320/RV-6A installation now that I know I DON'T
>want to drop hundreds of $ on a balanced highly engineered purpose-built B&C
>unit or similar.
I am flying with the following equipment:
Mitsubishi Alternator -- Champion Auto Stores part no. 7571110 (another
reference number on this part is 14194); $34.99 + core
Wells voltage regulator (for a Ford) part no. VR749; about $12
Crowbar Overvoltage Module -- AeroElectric Connection (Bob Nuckolls) $30-$35
Alternator bracket -- Van's part ES ALT-BKT; $22.50 (I think that this one
will fit. My bracket came with my engine.)
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>>I have a question... everyone has suggested how to fabricate a solution
>>to remind you when to switch tanks. Instead is there any reason not
>>to just have a both selector for the fuel? Would it be that simple?
>>Seeing that every low wing I've flown has a left/right selector there
>>must be more to it. But I can't see why the engine can't draw from both,
>>have a cessna style L/R/Both selector or something.
>
>Chris,
>
>With that system:
>The first time you let-- A --tank run dry (and you will) May be your last
> Al
Whatdaya doin Al? Pick'n a fight? You KNOW how upset I get about
non-information answers like this . . . EXPLAIN yerself and
get this gray haired ol' fart off the ceiling :-)
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: faa data base |
<< I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s. I was wondering if you
could
e-mail it to me. I could not find it anywhere on their web page. I'm
building a RV-4 and I would like to reserve a n # or see if someone has
taken
the one I want. >>
Carey-
The n# data base searches on the net do not include n#s that are reserved buy
not yet in force. It is better to call the FAA and talk to the person who
maintains these numbers. The FAA ph#, along with alot of other good numbers,
is in the Yeller Pages which I maintain at:
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 leading edge skin fit |
>>
>I pulled the leading edge skin down to exactly mate with the main
skins.
>The seam is perfect and the rivets are in the factory punched holes.
The
>nose ribs themselves are pretty tight too. Are you sure you
straightened
>the nose ribs all the way and that they are really 90 degrees to the
spar?
>If so you shouldn't have a significant gap.
>
>-Mike
Mike,
So, am I to assume it's OK to have some small amount of gap around the
nose of the ribs? I did flute the ribs to the nth degree...they sit flat
on the table, and the flange rivet lines are dead centered on the skin
prepunched holes...took MUCH time to assure this. The entire wing is
right-on straight..plumb lines centered in the holes, ribs trued to the
spar with a carpenter's square AND spirit level. I'm a fanatic for
straight airframes...from years of giant scale aerobatic RC plane
building and flying. Maybe my eye is "calibrated" to a much smaller
scale..and some gap around the nose is OK...ya think?
Thanks for your help!
Brian Denk
>
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Gross wt q's |
That is why adding extra fuel capacity to wing tanks or adding tip tanks
is better than enlarging a fuselage tank.
> ----------
> From: halk(at)sybase.com[SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 1:37
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Fwd: RV-List: RV-8 Gross wt q's
>
>
> Suppose the point load is directly over one of the saw horses??? Or
> just one
> foot away??
>
> <;-}
>
> hal
> > Imagine if you took a 10' piece of 2"x4" lumber and laid it
> horizontally on
> > two sawhorses spread 10' apart. If you hung a large weight (say
> 250 lb) from
> > one point at the center of your 2x4, it would probably break.
> However, if you
> > spread ten 25lb weights (a total of 250 lb) across the 2x4, it might
> hold.
> > The difference is because the point load causes higher bending
> forces...
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TPhilpin <TPhilpin(at)aol.com> |
<< I have thought that I have basically two alternatives. Please
>correct me or give me additional thoughts on this, and remember I always
>must factor cost in this but I do consider my "butt" unreplaceable.
>
> Option 1 - Make sure the vacuum system does not fail. Ie dual
>vacuum system or primary vacuum with backup.
> Or
> Option 2 - Have a primary pick one (vacuum/eletrical) with a
>backup (electrical/vacuum) system
>>
Why not the standard Option 3? A Turn Coordinator???? If cost is a concern?
With a Turn Coordinator you have a cross check with your Artificial Horizon,
an instrament operating off another power source (assuming your AH is vacuum),
and information you can use to get you out of trouble (assuming you have
practiced with it). I recently obtained my private with only a TC and AI to
perform my hood work including unusual attitudes. I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: faa data base |
> << I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s. I was wondering if you
> could
> e-mail it to me. I could not find it anywhere on their web page. I'm
> building a RV-4 and I would like to reserve a n # or see if someone has
> taken
> the one I want. >>
>
> Carey-
>
> The n# data base searches on the net do not include n#s that are reserved buy
> not yet in force. It is better to call the FAA and talk to the person who
> maintains these numbers. The FAA ph#, along with alot of other good numbers,
> is in the Yeller Pages which I maintain at:
>
> http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
>
> -GV
>
Actually I thought Landings does have a data base of reserved
N #s The easiest way to get there is to click on this link
<http://www.landings.com> then click on the search button.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TESTPYLOT <TESTPYLOT(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
Forget the under the seat method and put the servo out at the wingtip with a
small tube/push-pull to a small tab off the bellcrank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TESTPYLOT <TESTPYLOT(at)aol.com> |
A few days ago two other rv-ers and I went as a flight of three for an early
morning rideand one of my two friends said shortly after takeoff that he's lyc
was run lean and rough with mixture at full rich. We turned back and and
pulled he's rv into the hanger. In checking things out discovered a pc. of
gasket material about 1/8" in diameter looked liked a stamped pc. from the
gasket in the mixture lean tube assembly. This is a new Lyc and carb. from
Vans!!! Go's to show that problems can show up even when things are new!!!
Werner Berry RV-6A 64WL
w
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
> File under handy hints In the area of tools:
> I bought a file used to sharpen chain saws. It is about 5/32 dia. It
has
> been a very handy file for making holes bigger and cleaning up corners.
> Leaves a smooth finish, relative speaking. A couple of bucks and well
worth
> it.
> Gene Francis
I found that a pair of needlenose pliers with the 90 degree bent tip have
become the favorite tool for safety wiring and removing cowl pins, much
more grip action than the straight type. Also a 12"x12"x24" wood cube has
gotten a lot of use for stepping up on the wing, sitting on, holding the
fuselage up, you name it. (I believe it began life as a night stand that
never got completely finished)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy cleaning material? |
Want to clean plastic? Go to your local aquarium store. Aquariums are either
glass or plastic with the majority being the latter and EVERY little scratch
shows up like you would not believe. I've been maintaining my 55 and 100
gallon saltwater systems in like-new condition for better than 20 years and
found that the best source for cleaners/glazing comes from the better aquarium
shops or from the plastics specialty store (Tap Plastics if you live in the SF
Bay Area).
Why 409 has ever been a choice is a mystery to me in that it removes all the
junk but does not fill the micro-scratches left by the dirt and bugs taken off
by even the most careful cleaning. You need a glaze to fill them in.
And the glazes keep getting better; my favorite ten years ago was not my
favorite five years later and it isn't my current choice. Just go to a good
aquarium store, no puppies or birds, and see what they use.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Diehl <ddiehl(at)silverlink.net> |
| Subject: | POH for Mac Computers? |
Does anyone have an Apple/Mac translation of the POH?
If so, I would much appreciate a copy.
Many thanks.
Don Diehl
3rd owner of a -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
| Subject: | solar battery chargers |
A couple of years ago one of the local OZ electronics magazines designed
a switchmode battery charger for car use that would work on a solar
panel voltage of 6V to 24V. A company called Altronics was selling kits
based on this. Would you like further details?
> ----------
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III[SMTP:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 8:43
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: solar battery chargers
>
>
>
> >Bob,
> >
> >I see an add in Trade a Plane for a solar batter charger run off the
> >cigarette lighter. Are these any good or is it just a gimmick?
> >
> >Regards,
> >Tom
>
> Not at all. Cigar lighters on most cars are always hot
> which provides a convenient way to pump energy into the
> electrical system without getting under the hood or having
> any other accessories on.
>
> Most "chargers" are really pretty good "maintainers" as their
> output is simply too low to be a practical means for bringing
> a really dead battery up to full charge. Also, if left on
> too long . . . they can damage a battery. As a maintainer,
> the goal is to just offset the battery's internal self
> discharge rate . . . something on the order of 30-100 milliamperes
> depending on battery age and technology. Anything more than
> this will cause water to be driven off.
>
> I'm working on an article whereby one may use a derivation of
> our regulated dimmer assembly to put between the solar array
> and the battery to be maintained. Also, at OSH last year
> I spoke with Mr. Everett Yost who has several booths there
> selling all sorts of batteries including solar arrays. He
> is going to have some relatively low cost arrays capable of
> actually charging a battery . . . on the order of 1 amp output
> or so. These will indeed require some sort of regulation.
> I'll be working up a handout for him to describe construction
> of an appropriate regulator or get it off our website.
>
> Keep an eye on our articles index page for the information to
> show up.
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
> < Show me where I'm wrong. >
> =================================
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | RE: Flight Restrictions |
Listers: I ask the EAA what they had to say about the Flight Restrictions,
flying over densely populated areas. Here is their reply:
>Subject: RE: Flight Restrictions
>There has not been a formal FAA legal interpretation on this issue and
>neither the EAA nor the FAA wants to have a legal interpretation on this
>issue.
>
> FAR 91.319 (c) states that an experimental aircraft can not fly over
>densely populated areas. An exception to this is allowed for take off
>and landings. Also the FAA air traffic controllers handbook instructs
>controllers to handle experimental aircraft no differently than standard
>category aircraft.
>
>It is EAA interpretation and has been FAA's practice that an
>experimental aircraft may fly over a city on a cross country as long as
>all minimum distance requirements of Part 91 are followed. However, an
>experimental aircraft should not sight-see or looter over any populated
>area.
>
>Earl Lawrence
>EAA
Hope this clears some things up.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q (FLYING!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregory Young <gyoung(at)net1.net> |
On Monday, December 15, 1997 22:30 PM, Rox11
[SMTP:Rox11(at)aol.com] wrote:
>
> I just tried to rivit the horizontal stabilizer and left
> some nasty dings and
> dents learning to use a rivit gun. The question is can
> these be repaired or
> should I go back to golf and give this up?
Have faith, it gets better and it's probably not as bad as
you think. The first real rivet I put in the HS skin I
beat up so bad I damn near cried. While some will say
replacement parts are cheap (they are) so just redo it, I
took the view that if I was going to build it twice I would
finish the empenage and then decide what, if anything,
needed to be rebuilt. At least I'd have more experience
for the rebuild. Now, when I look at the HS sitting in my
RV parts warehouse (most call it a dining room), what I
thought was the Grand Canyon of smileys isn't really so bad
and is easily filled. The rest of the empenage is much
better, maybe not an award winner but perfectly serviceable
and safe. My wings are much better and the fuselage better
still.
Take a deep breath, get the Avery swivel set, turn your air
pressure way, way down and persevere. If you can play golf
regularly without throwing your clubs in the lake, you can
do this.
Good luck
Greg Young
RV-6 skinning fuselage (out of jig for Christmas, I hope!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
Don't give up, every one stuffs up first time they use a rivet gun. Your
mistake was to start on your stabilizer. Practice on some scrap until
you can get a good rivet driven reliably. Check your air pressure and
have a look a how you are holding the gun ( offsets, bucking bar not
tight ect.). The other possibility is you are using too powerful a rivet
gun for the job, a 4X will reliably stuff up any rivet below 3/16" in
the hands of anyone other than an expert. A 3X is better and a 2X is
ideal for up to 1/8". ( I speak from experience having had a quick
course at the local tech. school, after 200 rivets I can just about
handle a 3X ).
As for dings it depends on how bad they are, get someone to look them
over as it may be possible to hammer them out but I would consider
ordering new parts and using your first pass for practice.
Just my 2c....
> ----------
> From: Rox11[SMTP:Rox11(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 3:29
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: golf
>
>
> I just tried to rivit the horizontal stabilizer and left some nasty
> dings and
> dents learning to use a rivit gun. The question is can these be
> repaired or
> should I go back to golf and give this up?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: faa data base |
<< I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s. I was wondering if you
could
e-mail it to me. I could not find it anywhere on their web page. I'm
building a RV-4 and I would like to reserve a n # or see if someone has
taken
the one I want. >>
Carey-
The n# data base searches on the net do not include n#s that are reserved buy
not yet in force. It is better to call the FAA and talk to the person who
maintains these numbers. The FAA ph#, along with alot of other good numbers,
is in the Yeller Pages which I maintain at:
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
<3495DF96.3610C851(at)ix.netcom.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Chris the reason being that you have a elec. fuel pump pumping fuel to
>
>the engine from one tank or the other. If you are pumping from both
>tanks and the tanks get low on fuel you can unport the fuel pickup of
>one tank and then you will be pumping air, not good. For aircraft that
>have header tanks this is not a problem because the fuel is being fed
>to the engine from the header tank. Also this is not a problem with
>high wing aircraft such as 172's etc. because they are usually
>gravity feed.
>
>Jerry
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro,
>
Jerry pretty much said it all except I would like to add just one thing.
Please... Please , think very carefully before you modify the designed
(and proven) fuel system on an RV (or any other home built for that
matter).
I have spent some time looking through the NTSB's accident reports on
homebuilts, and the highest incidence of accidents caused by mechanical
failures or failed systems is you guessed it
- caused by something to do with the fuel system.
Often times it was poor installation/nonstandard aircraft practices.
I don't mean for this to cause a big discussion on whether to use a
gascolator or a filter, but I am suggesting that you don't just redesign
the whole fuel system just because.
Many people have deviated from the designers recommendations
(which often doesn't mean it's the only way to do it, but it does mean
that it has been proven to work) and built in problems that they never
imagined.
Just suggesting that you think twice!
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
<3495ED1A.BFB40DE3(at)ix.netcom.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Jerry Springer writes -
>I have never found this to be true with my under the seat installation
>but I did run the servo control tube across and attach it to the
>bottom of the pilot control stick so the angle would not be so great
>as the
>control stick is moved forward and back for elev. control.
It probably does depend on the actual position of the servo (which can
very from one airplane to another) but I have seen it in 2 RV's and just
mention that having a choice I would choose mounting in the wing. Like I
mentioned before it is always difficult to get the linkage to work
without binding the rod ends at extremes of travel.
>My guess is most of us will be holding on to the stick in anything
>more
>than light turbulence without a altitude hold autopilot.
I have found that the navaid works just fine in turb. An RV does pretty
good in pitch riding through bumps with the stick free if the CG isn't
too far aft. In my opinion this is when having the auto pilot is the
most value, so that you don't have to hand fly / wings level every moment
on a long cross country leg.
Just my personal feelings though...
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Elevator Trim |
> Also, the supplemental plans are not to scale and there are no dimensions for
> the trim horn. I guess the dimensions of the horn are not critical and can be
> compensated for by using the servo governor.
The trim horn dimension IS critical, in that if you mount the horn
differently you must get the the distance from the hinge of the trim
tab to the hinge pin on the horn to be the same. This affects the
deflection angle of the tab. By scaling measurements and incanting to
the gods, I deduced that the electric horn and mechanical horn are
the same length in the above dimension. However, because the servo
throw is only 1.2" and the mechanical throw is 2", the EET won't give
the specified up and down deflections of the tab. Bias the throw to
give more "tab down" (= elevator up).
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 doing the fiddly bits before engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MAC servo speed control |
<< On the big Boeing airplanes I worked on for many years the pitch trim
(stabilizer trim actually) speed is tied to the flaps. When the flaps go
down the trim servo runs faster. >>
Mike,
This is true on the on some of the boeing aircraft, but not all. The older
727's and 737's dont incorporate this feature (same trim speed throughout the
envelope) and get along just fine. You wont be going from 0 to 500mph in the
RV. Dont waste your time it wont be worth it trust me.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn/Spar |
jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Here is my current problem. How does the rudder horn/spar/spacer/bottom
> rib
> conglomeration go together?
[snip]
> Any knowledge would be cherished..... :-)
Hi Jon,
Your description sounded about right. Check out
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny1b.htm for what
I recorded when I built my rudder. If that doesn't answer your question,
and someone else does, please get back to me and I'll add the answer to
the page. If no-one gets back to you (I don't think that's likely
but...) get back to me again and I'll see what I can recall.
Frank.
(Knowledge cherished and shared :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
<< Since the T/C has no real value in VFR flying,
I then conclude that it is essentially "useless". >>
John,
You might want to rethink this! If you happen to accidentally find yourself
in a cloud layer ( and believe me it can happen) and your Horizon or vacum
pump takes a dump! The last thing between life and death could be your T/C. I
wont go into detail but I will say that I have come down through a substantial
layer once with mine. If you plan on flying alot of cross country with your RV
you wont believe how fast the weather changes when traveling at over 170mph!
You can find yourself in Sh@#t city in a hurry! It is a good and Usefull
instrument when needed.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Finish the horizontal stabilizer. Hang in up on the wall. Move on to
the next piece. You are now a much more experienced aircraft
fabricator. Keep all of your empanage jig parts somewhere out of the
way. When you have the fuselage upright in a few years, take the
horizontal stabilizer down. Put it on the fuselage and look it over.
You will have years of aircraft building under your belt by then. See
how it looks. Ask one of the EAA guys to look if you still can't
decide. If it looks OK, then put it on your airplane. If not, then
just build a new one. The second one will take no more than a week.
Put the new one on and hang the old one back on the wall as a
conversation piece.
Keep moving. Don't give up.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A fuselage in a jig
-----Original Message-----
I just tried to rivit the horizontal stabilizer and left some
nasty dings and
dents learning to use a rivit gun. The question is can these be
repaired or
should I go back to golf and give this up?
down there with me?
Your wisdom warmly appreciated,
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
08B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
I think the problem here is that:
1. You have to be current to really be able to fly partial panel.
2. A lot of pilots are not current on partial panel work.
3. This leads to a lot of dead pilots.
Turn and Balance indicators are very useful for low speed aircraft in
the murk but useless for high speed aircraft. This means a lot of high
time jet pilots are not current with partial panel operations as they
usually rely on an Artificial Horizon with multiple redundancy, since in
jets, pitch and yaw information is critical as a small error adds up to
a big change in altitude.
In short, get current, you will live longer.
> ----------
> From: TPhilpin[SMTP:TPhilpin(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 4:33
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: GYROS
>
>
>
> << I have thought that I have basically two alternatives. Please
> >correct me or give me additional thoughts on this, and remember I
> always
> >must factor cost in this but I do consider my "butt" unreplaceable.
> >
> > Option 1 - Make sure the vacuum system does not fail. Ie dual
> >vacuum system or primary vacuum with backup.
> > Or
> > Option 2 - Have a primary pick one (vacuum/eletrical) with a
> >backup (electrical/vacuum) system
> >>
> Why not the standard Option 3? A Turn Coordinator???? If cost is a
> concern?
> With a Turn Coordinator you have a cross check with your Artificial
> Horizon,
> an instrament operating off another power source (assuming your AH is
> vacuum),
> and information you can use to get you out of trouble (assuming you
> have
> practiced with it). I recently obtained my private with only a TC and
> AI to
> perform my hood work including unusual attitudes. I
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
Unfortunately, I'm an ex-military pilot and don't have to be sold on the
benefits of a Turn Coordinator. I am just discussing Attitude/DG stuff
here. I wonder how someone without a Turn Coordinator can comply with
IFR requirements for standard rate/half-standard rate turns in the soup.
To me a turn coordinator is not optional equipment, but thanks for the
advise.
-----Original Message-----
From: TPhilpin [SMTP:TPhilpin(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 12:33 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: GYROS
<< I have thought that I have basically two alternatives.
Please
>correct me or give me additional thoughts on this, and
remember I always
>must factor cost in this but I do consider my "butt"
unreplaceable.
>
> Option 1 - Make sure the vacuum system does not fail. Ie
dual
>vacuum system or primary vacuum with backup.
> Or
> Option 2 - Have a primary pick one (vacuum/eletrical)
with a
>backup (electrical/vacuum) system
>>
Why not the standard Option 3? A Turn Coordinator???? If cost
is a concern?
With a Turn Coordinator you have a cross check with your
Artificial Horizon,
an instrament operating off another power source (assuming your
AH is vacuum),
and information you can use to get you out of trouble (assuming
you have
practiced with it). I recently obtained my private with only a
TC and AI to
perform my hood work including unusual attitudes. I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | RV-8 leading edge skin fit |
You wrote:
>
>
>
>So, am I to assume it's OK to have some small amount of gap around the
>nose of the ribs? I did flute the ribs to the nth degree...they sit
flat
>on the table, and the flange rivet lines are dead centered on the skin
>prepunched holes...took MUCH time to assure this. The entire wing is
>right-on straight..plumb lines centered in the holes, ribs trued to
the
>spar with a carpenter's square AND spirit level. I'm a fanatic for
>straight airframes...from years of giant scale aerobatic RC plane
>building and flying. Maybe my eye is "calibrated" to a much smaller
>scale..and some gap around the nose is OK...ya think?
>
>Thanks for your help!
>
>Brian Denk
Bian, I also pulled the skin down to the bottom of the spar without any
trimming. The straps alone are not enough to do this. As you drill
and cleco from the top of the spar, parallel to the spar, working
around the leading edge, the skin will meet the bottom skins. In my
case, I skinned the wing without trimming and had a perfect fit
including the junction on the bottom where the leading edge, tank, and
bottom skins all meet. I was amazed at the accuracy of the skin
sizing. There is almost no gap between the ribs and the skin at the
nose. See my earlier posts this week regarding the small gap at the
nose of the fuel tank. This is taken care of by carefully trimming the
reinforcing plates to fit the exact contour of the leading edge.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: faa data base |
Rvmils wrote:
> I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s. I was wondering if you could
> e-mail it to me. I could not find it anywhere on their web page. I'm
> building a RV-4 and I would like to reserve a n # or see if someone has taken
> the one I want.
FYI--
You'd be better off just calling the FAA in Oklahoma City. Although
there are searchable databases on the Web, they're not always accurate.
The online databases don't record revoked registrations, for example.
Get some numbers in mind, call the Registration Branch and have them
look them up for you. They've been very friendly and helpful when I've
called them.
--Don McNamara
N8RV (res)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HAWKBUD <HAWKBUD(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: foot actuated dimpler plans (a.k.a. laser-guided sledge hammer |
di
have these plans been posted. where can I get them please.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Edwards <CTE(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: faa data base |
Try
-----Original Message-----
From: INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fwd: faa data base
by arl-img-2.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.9) with SMTP id
AAA02076;
by mole with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #2)
(PST)
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 21:25:16 -0800
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fwd: faa data base
> << I was looking for the faa data base for n #'s. I was wondering if you
> could
> e-mail it to me. I could not find it anywhere on their web page. I'm
> building a RV-4 and I would like to reserve a n # or see if someone has
> taken
> the one I want. >>
>
> Carey-
>
> The n# data base searches on the net do not include n#s that are reserved
buy
> not yet in force. It is better to call the FAA and talk to the person
who
> maintains these numbers. The FAA ph#, along with alot of other good
numbers,
> is in the Yeller Pages which I maintain at:
>
> http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
>
> -GV
>
Actually I thought Landings does have a data base of reserved
N #s The easiest way to get there is to click on this link
<http://www.landings.com> then click on the search button.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EDWARD HASCH JR <hasch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | [Fwd: Returned mail: Service unavailable] |
by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with internal id SAA07733;
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:31:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
boundary="SAA07733.882239469/sweden.it.earthlink.net"
Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
This is a MIME-encapsulated message
--SAA07733.882239469/sweden.it.earthlink.net
from 1Cust169.tnt17.dfw5.da.uu.net [153.36.251.169]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mail.matronics.com.:
>>> RCPT To:
<<< 550 ... User unknown
550 ... User unknown
mail.local: unknown name: www.hasch
554 ... Service unavailable
--SAA07733.882239469/sweden.it.earthlink.net
Reporting-MTA: dns; sweden.it.earthlink.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; 1Cust169.tnt17.dfw5.da.uu.net
Arrival-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:31:02 -0800 (PST)
Final-Recipient: RFC822; www.rv_list(at)matronics.com
Action: failed
Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.matronics.com
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 ... User unknown
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:31:08 -0800 (PST)
Final-Recipient: RFC822; www.hasch(at)sweden.it.earthlink.net
Action: failed
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:31:08 -0800 (PST)
--SAA07733.882239469/sweden.it.earthlink.net
by sweden.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA07695;
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 06:18:59 -0600
From: EDWARD HASCH JR <hasch(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-6 FOR SALEr
RV-6 FOR SALE BASED GALLATIN TN (M33) 340 TT AIRFRAME 985 SMOH
0-320-E3D 150 HP STERBA 68X68
SLIDING CANOPY,GYROS,ELECT T/C,GPS,AT150 MODE C,ICOM A200,ESCORT
II,ELT,EGT AND MP,INSTRU LIGHTS,INTERCOM,
WHELAN NAV/STROBES,DUAL BRAKES,TAXI/LAND LITES,FULL SWIVAL TAIL
WHEEL,LORETSEN INTERIOR,
12 LB STARTER RINGWEIGHT,3 POS MAN FLAPS, MAN AIL AND PITCH
TRIM,DAY/NIGHT OPS,175 MPH AT 2500 RPM,
SMOOTH AIRPLANE. POLISHED ALUMINUM OUTSTANDING IN AND OUT. BUILT BY
OWNER 1992.
$57,000
ED HASCH
A&P IA,CFI,FAA-DAR
RES 615-824-4704 WORK 615-275-3418
--SAA07733.882239469/sweden.it.earthlink.net--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
>>With that system:
>>The first time you let-- A --tank run dry (and you will) May be your last
>> Al
>
> Whatdaya doin Al? Pick'n a fight? You KNOW how upset I get about
> non-information answers like this . . . EXPLAIN yerself and
> get this gray haired ol' fart off the ceiling :-)
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
Bob,
You got me! Sorry. Should have said with that system in an RV (low wing)
and no header tank when the fuel pump sucked air from low tank you would
have a problem. Also I think with human nature what it is, with the left
and right tank selection, and one were to let's say overlook swiching tanks
and run one dry, (not that anyone on this list has EVER done that) then one
need only to switch tanks and I'm sure one would be VERY aware of one's
fuel situation the rest of the flight. On the other hand if that happened
with it on both, the pucker factor might increase. (Very red :-)) Al
Please come down off the ceiling now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
When I play golf I'm always asking whether I should give it up and go back
to building another RV - have faith. I have actually lowered my handicap
(but I'm too embarrassed to tell you what it is) so you can lower your "ding
per rivet driven" index.
It is worth it...
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | solar battery chargers |
>
>A couple of years ago one of the local OZ electronics magazines designed
>a switchmode battery charger for car use that would work on a solar
>panel voltage of 6V to 24V. A company called Altronics was selling kits
>based on this. Would you like further details?
Yes I would . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
>
>I just got the AeroConnection book (35.00). Well worth the $.
>
>Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx~~
Thank you. I'm pleased that you find it useful. Are you coming
to our weekend seminar on Hicks Field on Feb 7-8. It's going
to be in George Orndorff's hangar. Let us know how we can help
with your project.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Rox11 wrote:
>
>
> I just tried to rivit the horizontal stabilizer and left some nasty dings and
> dents learning to use a rivit gun. The question is can these be repaired or
> should I go back to golf and give this up?
>We all have been through that process! DON'T GIVE UP!! Just keep
practicing a bit more and you will see your skills grow. It is very
satisfying to achieve and grow and Vans aircraft are a great learning
experience. The best part is that replacement parts are relatively
inexpensive at this stage and come quickly from Van's, so just keep
learning and when you have "destroyed" a part learning and improving,
just buy another and keep building. As I read on the list the other day
"Begin with the end goal in mind". That statement really picked up my
day as I was struggling with the control systems in my RV-6. We WILL
win IF we just don't quit.
Those things we persist in doing become easier to do, not that the
nature of the thing has changed, but that our ability to do has
increased.
Golfing is great but flying is better!
Enjoy
Doug Murray - RV6 control systems in balmy Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort) |
> > Whatdaya doin Al? Pick'n a fight? You KNOW how upset I get about
> > non-information answers like this . . . EXPLAIN yerself and
> > get this gray haired ol' fart off the ceiling :-)
> >
> > Bob . . .
> > AeroElectric Connection
Al, Bob et al:
My experience with a fuel selector in the "both" position was that the
fuel system would deliver fuel from one tank to the other. When the
receiving tank was full, the fuel then went overboard. The RVator
published this some time back. My RV-4 has a flop tube in one tank, a
Cessna fuel selector, minimal vertical displacement of all fuel lines
and vents per plans with pitots on each vent. I believe it would be
difficult to know in advance how a given system would function. You
could test one and find out but for my money the better way is to forget
about the idea of a "both" selector position on an RV.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <airshows1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: $$$ For RV-6 Aircraft |
Not a golden knight at all, just flew my Siai Marchetti SF.260 on the
circuit in 1994 in the northeast and then produced and managed and financed
my own air show the next year. Not in the bix anymore, now.
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott A. Jordan <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Date: Monday, December 15, 1997 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: $$$ For RV-6 Aircraft
>
>Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>>May all your days be prosperous and your Knights Golden!
><
>
>I suspect you are a former Golden Knight?
>
>I worked with the Black demo team in 89 for an airshow ar Ellsworth AFB and
>a couple other demos inthe area. The most fun I had in the AF while on the
>ground. A great bunch of guys!
>
>Scott
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
You didn't say which model of RV you're building, did you? If it's got
prepunched skins, you might be OK. Order a new skin and try it again.
I made the mistake of attempting to rivet the HS skins on by myself
(rather than be beholden to my lovely wife) and paid the price with the
first rivet. Fortunately, thanks to the accuracy of the prepunching,
the new skin matched perfectly with the holes drilled in the skeleton.
Cleco, drill, debur, dimpleand prime and I'm back where I screwed up.
This time I called another builder, he bucked while I hammered, and no
dings.
Some things you just shouldn't try to do by yourself.
--Don McNamara
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Quick comments on vacuum failure.
----------
> From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)netins.net>
> >Hi Bob,
> >As a part time pilot, I am not sure my skills will be up to that level.
> >Therefore, for IMC I believe that I will need a backup Horizon to feel
> >comforable. Correct me if I am wrong here but I believe that
statistics
> >indicate that vacuum failures in IMC are very often fatal?
>
[stuff deleted] ..
>
> The T/C is a very viable backup to an electric Art. Horizon. It is also
> considerably cheaper. A vacuum failure warning light and manifold
pressure
> backup system is a much better alternative for less money. The fatals
due
> to Vacuum failure are a result of the upset that occurs from following an
> errant horizon in to an unusual attitude. This is followed by the time
it
> requires to identify the problem and then identify the "liar" and recover
> without pulling the wings off. Having two independent Art. Horizons
would
> not resolve this dilemma. Training and proficiency will.
Doug's comment is on the money in my view. Once you experience it you will
REALLY appreciate it, but those of you without a zillion hours in every
plane and condition (like ME), please take his comments to heart.
I was flying (with two other proficient pilots in the plane) and had just
crossed some mountains enroute from SC to TN (RV fly-in last year) in
visibility that was not great , though VFR, when my little surprise
occured. My vacuum pump failed, and even with a RED warning light, I was
surprised as to how long it took me to a) realize that I had a failure and
b) realize how much off-course I was going. Fortunately I was not in the
clouds as I may have followed that AH right over.
Once I realized what had occurred, I was ever grateful to have a) electric
turn coordinator, b) vertical card compass, c) GPS and of course d) two
other pilots on-board. My future plane will have at least the first three
of these onboard.
And while I am confessing ... since we were approaching an airport where I
had never been before and since there were numerous planes in the area, it
got rather busy in a hurry. So busy that I forgot that to get vacuum for
the gyros, all I had to do was pull a knob to take a tap from the manifold.
Had it installed for the very reason discussed above (belt and suspenders)
and forgot to pull it!! I guess my excuse is that I focussed on flying the
plane. ;-)
Oh, by the way, we had TWO GPS's onboard and the one I was using decided to
use up all of its battery power at just that moment as well. Just goes to
show ...
James
RV6AQB ... wings closed, on to rudder.
>
> Tailwinds, RV-4 N240
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
> http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
>I have seen several RV4's which have roll bars with a rounded top as
>opposed to the flat top Van provides. The flat-top roll bar looks
>homemade
Dave,
The rounded roll bars seem to be a trademark of the Bakersfield Bunch. I
don't know if they are available as an after market item or not. IMHO,
they are sacrificing safety for appearance since they are quite a bit
lower than the stock roll bar. The canopy would have to crunch a good
deal more before contacting the roll bar in the event of a flip-over. I
would stick with the stock model
Bill Davis, RV-4 N66WD
ntences )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Rox11 wrote:
>
> I just tried to rivit the horizontal stabilizer and left some nasty dings and
> dents learning to use a rivit gun. The question is can these be repaired or
> should I go back to golf and give this up?
You need to have someone drop by and look at your work; we can't advise
you by description. I had an A&P teach me to rivet. Even so, I had
some pretty bad dings, which the mechanic looked at and shrugged. His
comment was that the rivet itself was structurally sound, and the skin
had no cracks or sharp creases that might lead to cracks. Look at some
finsished aircraft and you will see that the rivetting is not as smooth
as the magazine pictures would have you believe. Once you see this for
yourself, you will not feel so bad about having a expert look over your
'poor' workmanship (this was a hurdle for me; I was sure I was going to
have to do everything over).
When I started rivetting the wing leading edge, I was quite smug. I had
managaed to rivet the entire top side without a single ding. So I
turned it around and - you guessed it - promptly put three dings in a
row, including a rivet that had to be drilled out. Maybe by the time I
finish the plane I'll be a decent rivetter.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>> > Whatdaya doin Al? Pick'n a fight? You KNOW how upset I get about
>> > non-information answers like this . . . EXPLAIN yerself and
>> > get this gray haired ol' fart off the ceiling :-)
>> >
>> > Bob . . .
>> > AeroElectric Connection
>Al, Bob et al:
>My experience with a fuel selector in the "both" position was that the
>fuel system would deliver fuel from one tank to the other. When the
>receiving tank was full, the fuel then went overboard. The RVator
>published this some time back. My RV-4 has a flop tube in one tank, a
>Cessna fuel selector, minimal vertical displacement of all fuel lines
>and vents per plans with pitots on each vent. I believe it would be
>difficult to know in advance how a given system would function. You
>could test one and find out but for my money the better way is to forget
>about the idea of a "both" selector position on an RV.
>Gordon Comfort
>N363GC
Good morning Gordon . . . don't hear much from you lately. Have you
been spending too much time flying/building and not enough time
at the keyboard? I'm having trouble visualizing the physics of what
you describe. I know that many high wing airplanes have "both"
positions (The C-150 I fly does) and some don't (like the C-140).
It's fairly easy to see how fuel can flow from a higher level in one
tank to a lower level in the other but what pushes fuel out the top
of the other? If simply plumbed together and tee'd to the fuel pump,
how would one tank go dry before the other (asside from cross flow
due to wings-not-level flight)? In level flight, pressure at the
tee would be a function of head height of the fuel on each side
making the fuller tank feed faster than the lower one if indeed
flow doesn't reverse and move toward the lower level tank.
Obviously, high wing airplanes have a much larger head-pressure at
the intersection of the two fuel tank lines . . . is there some
phenonmenon I'm overlooking for low head-pressure scenarios? Suppose
the tubing sizes were small enough to have significant flow dependent
pressure drops. During high demand from the engine would it be possible
for ambient pressure in an empty tank to exceed ambient + head pressure
in the fuller tank due to flow friction? In this case, vapors would
indeed be injested instead of fuel . . . perhaps this is avoided by
LARGER crossfeed tubes between tanks to minimize flow induced friction
losses.
Al, can you shed some light on the physics of this problem?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
Mark Landoll sells every thing you need: Alternator, regulator, OV protector,
mount and pulley. Very reasonable (Cheap). I am happy with mine. Would have
gone with B&C for IFR.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn/Spar |
Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>The forward flange of the R-404 lower rib slips over the top of
the rudder horn between it and the spar, necessitating a .032 spacer for
the
lower portion of the junction. Am I supposed to line up and drill the rib
flange to the middle row of holes in the reinforcement plate and spar?<
In short, yes. You will need to cut a notch in the rib flange and spacer
to allow the rod end to pass through. You will also need to file a radius
on the top of the rudder horn for the rib to slip down into position. On
the -8 plans this is shown in detail A, don't know if the -6 plans show it.
>>The other question in my mind is why attach the
nutplate to the rudder horn? Why not run AN470's all the way through the
whole mess? The holes line up.....<<
That's what I did, the -8 plans don't suggest any other way to do it.
>>2 1/2 hours and 4 cups of coffee later, I was sulking in my dining
room scanning the plans for clues.<<
Sometimes it is best to take a break, have a beer and watch a game on TV.
The light will come on at 0300! Of course, you won't mind getting up at
that hour to take another look at the plans and parts because you hadn't
been sleeping anyway. ;->
Scott A. Jordan
-8 331
N733JJ reserved
wings when temps stay above 40.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
Greetings,
Has anyone had any experience with the "Cyberdyne" line of digital
gauges in aircraft use. These appear to be an accurate and cost effective
means of electronic engine monitoring and can be obtained from most
automotive parts suppliers (Summit and even JC Whitney) for a little more
than the standard analog gauge. My major concern is if the display is
bright enough to be seen when exposed to direct sunlight.
Jerry Isler -RV4 #1060-On the Gear-At Least Another Year!
jlisler(at)surfsouth.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Barnard <Steve(at)barnardaircraft.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
There are some important items here that need discussion. Increasing
gross weight has some side effects some of which are added loads on the
landing gear but not much of an issue when landing at another airport when
fuel is burned off with a lower gross weight.
I think the analogy of placing a 2 x 4 between posts is also misleading.
First off the 2 X 4 cannot handle a linear load that a wing is designed to
take. Also wing spars are not point loaded at the center they transfer a
large portion of the linear load at the fuselage junction point. This is
why Van's finally deleted the main spar center steel plates. Main spars
are tapered
in some respect. The load at the tip is zero increasing to full design
strenth at the center. Modern design recognizes the proper load path and
addresses where loads transfer.
The key issue here and the most important is the maneuvering speed of the
aircraft. This is where you can apply full and intentional use of control
surfaces to there full extent without damaging the aircraft. This is the
speed you should obtain when flying thru turbulent air. This is the most,
I repeat the most damaging load the airplane will see. There is higher
loads placed on the airplane here, even higher than VNE or maximum dive
speed. The wings linear load is greatest at maneuvering speed.
If one uses a higher gross weight consider lowering your maneuvering speed
accordingly to prevent damage to the airplane in turbulence.
References for the above are Analysis & Design of Flight Vehicles
Structures by Bruhn and Modern Aircraft design by Martin Hollman.
>The question was:
> > In exercising my skills at modern math, I find that 1800 lb gross
>produces
> > 10800 lbs of force at 6 G's. Could a fella assume that if he only
pulled,
>say
> > 5.6 G's, he could increase his max gross to 1900 lb? Or, taken a step
>further,
> > could a fella restrict max G to 5.4 and therefore increase max wt to
2000
>lb?
>
>One part of the answer is:
> >Aircraft design involves not only "flight loads" which you
> >have considered, but also "landing loads". >>
>
>Another part of the answer is that, if the overload is concentrated in the
>fuse (in the form of people and junque), the wing bending force (moment) will
>increase much faster than if the load was distributed evenly along the
wing.
>
>Imagine if you took a 10' piece of 2"x4" lumber and laid it horizontally on
>two sawhorses spread 10' apart. If you hung a large weight (say 250 lb)
from
>one point at the center of your 2x4, it would probably break. However, if
you
>spread ten 25lb weights (a total of 250 lb) across the 2x4, it might hold.
>The difference is because the point load causes higher bending forces...
>
>Kyle Boatright
>RV-6 this Century
Respectfully,
Steve Barnard
Barnard Aircraft Components
RV-6A N157ST 1000 hrs flying
steve(at)barnardaircraft.com
http://www.barnardaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown <RV4Brown(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Mounting tires on aluminum hubs |
Ok, I've done many things in my life. Mounting aircraft tires on aluminum hubs
hasn't made my list yet.
I would appreciate some basic info/procedure/technique of what works so I
don't mess up the hubs or cut the tire tub in the process. How do you get that
big tire stem through the small rubber gromet in the hub?
Tom Brown - RV4 - fuselage ( about to go mobile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Bob,
>You got me! Sorry. Should have said with that system in an RV (low wing)
>and no header tank when the fuel pump sucked air from low tank you would
>have a problem. Also I think with human nature what it is, with the left
>and right tank selection, and one were to let's say overlook swiching tanks
>and run one dry, (not that anyone on this list has EVER done that) then one
>need only to switch tanks and I'm sure one would be VERY aware of one's
>fuel situation the rest of the flight. On the other hand if that happened
>with it on both, the pucker factor might increase. (Very red :-)) Al
>Please come down off the ceiling now.
Oooohhhh thank you my friend . . .glad to be down . . . I'm a closet
acrophobic. I'm trying to deduce the physics of the matter (see my reply
to Gordon).
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown <RV4Brown(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV related - Life Insurance |
I was wondering if anyone has found additional term life insurance
coverage that covers pilots piloting homebuilts/experimental aircraft beyond
what the EAA offers. I would like to give my family some protection from the
ultimate ah shucks?
Respond off list if you don't wnat to burn the cyberspace.
RV4Brown(at)aol.com
Tom Brown RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
> as you've got the vacuum pump pad open AND you're all electric
> gyros . . . the little 8-amp alternator makes more than good
> sense.
>
> Bob . . .
How much is this puppy, and where do you get one?
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Gauges |
> Subject: RV-List: Engine Gauges
>
> Jerry Isler -RV4 #1060-On the Gear-At Least Another Year!
----------
This is to correct a typo, I am serial number 1070, not 1060 as originally
stated.
Still at least another year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | caummisa(at)arn.net (Richard Caummisar) |
"So, how does this relate to aviation?
This thread reminded me of some questions about fuel I had
after reading a note someone recently posted about a chap in Canada
that is on the verge of marketing floats for 6A's.
I wondered what type of fuel is availableat marina's.
Where does one with floats get the appropriate
fuel? Are these floated planes capable of landing on land? If yes,
does one have to always get fuel at airports then land on water.
Can an additive make unleaded fuel suitable for avgas?
Just wondering.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Oh, by the way, we had TWO GPS's onboard and the one I was using decided to
>use up all of its battery power at just that moment as well. Just goes to
>show ...
>
>
>James
>
>RV6AQB ... wings closed, on to rudder.
While working in the accident investigation business a few years back,
we developed a rather hard-over policy about batteries in portable
equipment. It happened because of a batch of test data I lost because
the batteries quite in the middle of a run . . . with a 60 car train
that had to be backed up 6 miles on a main line that was being held
secure for the benefit of our testing. After that, all pieces of
equipment got fresh batteries before every job irrespective of how
long the old set had been used.
Yeah, even the little GPS2000 uses $4 worth of batteries at convenience
store prices but how much are you spending for the rest of this adventure?
I don't know that fresh batteries before every flight is justified
but certainly every other flight is a good idea. The incremental cost
to the program is trivial and reliability takes a BIG jump in the right
direction when you do this . . . a whole flight back full of flashlights
and radios aren't worth a toot if the batteries are questionable. It's
also not much help to be trying to fly the airplane and install fresh
batteries in flight. Fiddling with breakers or batteries, it's all the
same. Besides, your kids will appreciate the flow of batteries into their
entertainment budget.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
If you ever go to Bakersfield, stop in on this bunch! They have a very
nice hangar and probably make their own rollbars right at their
facility. Very nice workshop.
----------
From: rvpilot(at)juno.com[SMTP:rvpilot(at)juno.com]
Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 7:28 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 Rollbar
Davis Jr)
>I have seen several RV4's which have roll bars with a rounded
top as
>opposed to the flat top Van provides. The flat-top roll bar
looks
>homemade
Dave,
The rounded roll bars seem to be a trademark of the Bakersfield
Bunch. I
don't know if they are available as an after market item or not.
IMHO,
they are sacrificing safety for appearance since they are quite
a bit
lower than the stock roll bar. The canopy would have to crunch a
good
deal more before contacting the roll bar in the event of a
flip-over. I
would stick with the stock model
Bill Davis, RV-4 N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
> A most likely scenairo. The drawback is that it forces me into the two
>alternator scenario ( no plan for vaccum system ) and I am concerned about
>the weight.
You're taking a vacuum pump out along with all the plumbing. Assuming
weight deltas for the gyros are a wash, then you're still way ahead
on weight reduction by adding in the SD-8 alternator. Besides,
even if the SD-8 were a tad heavier, I'd just as soon shed the pounds
of my buns than give up the second power source.
>Here's an interesting question:
>If you are hand flying IMC and you're horizon fails in the "standard" way (
>slowly rolls over ), would it be possible to engage the Navaid ( in an
>unusual attitude ) and have it level the wings?
>
you bet . . . it's one of the nice things about rate gyros versus
attitude gyros. The attitude gyro will get lost and have a difficult
time getting stood back up while it assumes you're holding the airplane
level by other means. The turn coordinator is a sensor of yaw rate . . .
period . . . it's really hard to keep yaw rate zero and ball centered
and NOT have the wings reasonably leveled. Try it next time you're up
in a spam can. Put your head down and let the co-pilot place the
airplane in a non-level attitude with gyros covered. Recovery to
straight and level using NBA technique is a snap.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>> as you've got the vacuum pump pad open AND you're all electric
>> gyros . . . the little 8-amp alternator makes more than good
>> sense.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>
>How much is this puppy, and where do you get one?
I don't recall off the top of my head . . . it's on the order
of $350 with regulator. Call B&C @ 316.283.8000
It's a neat little alternator and only weights about 3.5 pounds
installed. No slip rings, VERY reliable.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown <RV4Brown(at)aol.com> |
That flat spot makes a nifty place to mount the GPS antenna!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff J. Dingbaum" <dingbaum(at)hep.net> |
Hi,
Bob had a some tips about putting new batteries in maybe every other
flight. What about NiCad? I don't have a GPS, so I don't know if
they are recommended or not. If the GPS burns batteries this often
then NiCads would seem like a good fit. Just leave it on after the
flight until they die out. Then recharge. No memory effect. (I
cant spell hysteriesis).
How about it? Of course, spare, Fresh alkalines in the bag.
Jeff Dingbaum
Pilot and Builder wannabee - for now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: $$$ For RV-6 Aircraft |
Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>May all your days be prosperous and your Knights Golden!<
>Not a golden knight at all, just flew my Siai Marchetti SF.260 on the
circuit in 1994 in the northeast<
I see, just stealing their trademark show signoff! ;->
Didn't see your name on the post. Saw your show at POU a couple years ago,
was surprised when you weren't around this year.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
> Try it next time you're up
> in a spam can. Put your head down and let the co-pilot place the
> airplane in a non-level attitude with gyros covered. Recovery to
> straight and level using NBA technique is a snap.
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
The NBA technique might work a bit better with a conventional turn
coordinator than with the Navaid. The light bars of the Navaid are not as
easy to use as the needle, IMO. They tend to wash out in sunlight. Of
course, I'm a VFR only pilot so I'd probably be up a creek in IMC
conditions. I did fly for one hour with an instructor last year, under the
hood. He put is all sorts of awful positions and I was very surprised that
I never "lost it" as it had been quite some time since I've done any hood
work. I'll tell you what, after that, I was beat, hot and sweaty--went
home, took a shower and went to bed. I felt liked I'd been rode hard and
put away wet (ranch talk). I like my simple, vfr only way of life.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
Very interested in discussion on Gross weight effects. My RV-6A is a
"little" on the hefty side. I did some back of envelope calculations with a
gross weight limit of 1800 lbs up from Van's 1650 and concluded I needed to
lower my Maneuvering speed from 130 MPH to 125 MPH. Rationale as follows so
if flawed, would appreciate you who know what you are talking about so
informing me.
________________________________________________________________________________
F=ma, where "a"(acceleration 6.5Gs in this case) which can be expressed
as V^2/2 , V representing velocity.
giving F=mV^2/2. If V is the 130mph maneuvering speed limit for an
RV-6 at Van's gross weight of 1650 pounds, then total force F would be
13942500 ft lb/sec^2. Recognize I have not attempted to rectify the units,
but would appear the value for F is a fixed value for this drill regardless
of correct magnitude.
So, If I can consider that the force "F" that would give the 6.5Gs design
limit, then it would seem that if I take my 1800 pounds gross weight limit
and substitute lower air speeds for "V" until I get the same "F" value
(13942500 or whatever determined in first step) then that airspeed should
approximate my new lower Maneuvering airspeed. From which I get approx
125MPH.
Recognize a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so please jump in!
Ed
RV-6A
andersone(at)bah.com
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
There are some important items here that need discussion. Increasing
gross weight has some side effects some of which are added loads on the
landing gear but not much of an issue when landing at another airport when
fuel is burned off with a lower gross weight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
Again I ask indulgence while I editorialize,
I am concerned that several times in recent posts on this thread I have seen
references to the "useless" turn and bank. Whether you call it that or a
Bat and Ball or turn coordinator It is an essential instrument in an IFR
airplane no matter how big or small and it was the first instrument I put in
the pink panther when I bought it. Two Artificial horizons can replace the
T&B but unless at least one is non-tumbling it is a bad plan. The purpose
of the T&B is to be the back up the horizon and be the "lie detector."
since the T&B is cheap(relatively), dependable, and non-tumbling it is the
best and most often used alternative.
If you fly with military trained old timers as I often do, you will learn
that the Airspeed indicator is the first thing to look at in an upset. If
the speed is high, the next instrument is the T&B, not the horizon. (If the
speed is low it is the altimeter, the reasons why should be common knowledge
and unfortunately are not) As I said in a previous post on this subject the
most likely cause of a serious upset following an errant instrument into an
unusual attitude. When that occurs it is back to basics. For those who have
not had the "treatment" here goes!
Unusual Attitudes 101
#1 Airspeed- Speeds high go to "A", Speeds slow go to "B"
A. 1.power off
2.T&B level
3.Altimeter stopped with pitch (If you are hanging in the straps you
are upside down but still alive)
B. 1.Max power
2.Altimeter stopped with pitch
3.T&B level
#2 Restore power and fly needle ball and airspeed.
Why?
1: The first Instrument to address is always the airspeed it is the most
critical item and must be controlled first. The power response should
become obvious and instinctive.
A:
Speeds hi, power off. With the T&B, level the wings next, because if you
are in a bank and pull you will end up in a spiral. Therefore it is
important to level the wings first. Then stop the altimeter. If you get in
your airplane and pull the nose up 30 degrees and push it over you will
observe that when the altimeter reverses direction the nose is on the
horizon. Every time, regardless of bank. It is your best pitch back up.
B:
Speeds slow, max power. Stop the altimeter. We restore pitch next because
if you are in a 60 deg nose up and level the wings at low airspeed you will
probably stall. Again we use the altimeter as a primary pitch instrument
here. It is really the only one we can trust. Then level the wings with
the T&B.
#2 Finally restore power and continue Needle ball and airspeed. Contrary
to popular myth this is not difficult! It is actually easier because there
are less gauges to look at. Yes shooting approaches is difficult, but
maintaining upright flight within a couple hundred feet and heading with in
30 degrees is not. If you have a GPS the heading part is easy! If you are
in real IFR declare an emergency and get no Gyro vectors to better weather
or an ASR no gyro approach. This is not that hard either.
It is my hope that those who have downplayed the importance of the trusty
turn and bank are those who aspire to be instrument pilots rather than those
who are. It is further my hope that those who are instrument pilots and
take the approach if I the vacuum pump quits I am dead anyway will go back
and get some partial panel practice. It is not difficult and it is not
taught nearly enough. I did not really do it until I got my ATP and then I
was amazed at how simple it really was. Not to shoot precision approaches
to minimums but all that is required is to keep the airplane right side up
and find help.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
charset="us-ascii"
-
>
>That flat spot makes a nifty place to mount the GPS antenna!
But it will get crushed when you roll over......
couldn't resist;-)
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Young <gyoung(at)bcm.tmc.edu> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Gross wt q's |
On Tuesday, December 16, 1997 10:56 AM, Steve Barnard
> Aircraft aluminum structures are built to design limits with a safety
> margin of 1.5 x design limits. What this means is the structure in the
...snip...
> The words "protection for construction errors" is misleading. Scott
this
> is standard aircraft design practices in establishing a metal aircraft
> design limit. Who is this protecting. This is what designers consider
as
> safe.
>
It's actually more than standard practice, it's a certification requirement
regardless of structure type. Without looking up the FARs and from my
rusty memory, the limits of +6/-3 for aerobatic, +4.4/-2? for utility,
+3/-1.7? for normal and +1.7/-1? for transport category are the design
limits at or below which the structure must not suffer permanent damage or
deformation. The 1.5X defines the minimum ultimate load at which the
structure will fail. In between the structure can bend and stay bent
(yield). Most wood spars will not yield in between but will fail
catastrophically (crack) when you hit the ultimate load. Aluminum will tend
to bend and go plastic before final failure. I get nervous about some kit
ads (not Van's) that claiming acro capability with +6/-3 G-limits since I
suspect they are ultimate, not design/yield, loads.
I had occasion to pull +7.5g on a Decathalon and am alive because of that
margin. Obviously, Experimentals don't have to meet all certification
standards, but this is one rule I intend to follow. I will still probably
define a higher gross for normal category operations based on some load
analysis, including assessment of things unique to my aircraft.
Greg Young
RV-6 skinning fuselage (out of jig by Christmas, I hope!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
>
> I did some back of envelope calculations with a
> gross weight limit of 1800 lbs up from Van's 1650 and concluded I needed
> to lower my Maneuvering speed from 130 MPH to 125 MPH
Ed,
References I found to make sure I remembered old ground lessons
correctly:
Va = Maximum Maneuvering Speed - a function of the design limit load and
the aircraft stalling speed, this is the maximum speed at which full or
abrupt control usage should not exceed the structural limits of the
aircraft since the aircraft should stall at or below this speed prior
to achieving limit load (from http://www.capellakitplanes.com/vspd.htm).
*Va varies proportional to gross weight. It is the maximum speed at which
you can fly into turbulence or make an abrupt control deflection. If you do
either of these at a speed above Va, structural failure may result. Below
Va, a stall will occur before any structural damage can happen (from
http://pw2.netcom.com/~aerotape/answers.html).
All other things being equal, a given aircraft stalls at a higher airspeed
as weight increases, therefore maneuvering speed *increases* with weight.
In other words, you should increase Va at higher weights (you will have
equivalent primary structure protection, and an increased margin over
stall). Conversely, you *must* remember to reduce Va at lighter weights,
to assure that the aircraft will stall before breaking.
BTW, your Mazda installation looks great! Keep us posted on flight test
progress, a rotary is what I want to put in after my Lycoming is runout.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
> Unusual Attitudes 101
Printed out, posted to workshop door, archived on computer. Piece of
gold...thanks!
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Someone wrote:
> >You got me! Sorry. Should have said with that system in an RV (low wing)
> >and no header tank when the fuel pump sucked air from low tank you would
> >have a problem.
Surely you mean suck air from the *high* tank? If you're sucking air
from the low tank, you have a major problem!
Incidentally, the switching tanks requirement would have saved some
heart palpitations for me. Returning from my second trip away in a C172,
I did my pre-landing checks "B..U..M..Fuel 'selector on Both' Oh my God
it's on Right!!!" I estimate maybe 5, certainly less than 15, minutes
fuel in that tank. For some reason (parked across a slope?), the
previous pilot had seen fit to change to Right. I'd been in a hurry to
take off to get home before dark (I know!!! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!) and
hadn't checked the fuel selector position.
Please people, learn from my mistake. I know *I* have.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven Spruell" <spruell(at)qedsoln.com> |
>
> It is further my hope that those who are instrument pilots and
>take the approach if I the vacuum pump quits I am dead anyway will go
back
>and get some partial panel practice. It is not difficult and it is not
>taught nearly enough.
Great post, Doug. You hit the nail on the head.
On my very first IFR X/C my instructor covered up the gyros and made me
fly NBA+compass for 2 hours. It made a believer out of me. I was
amazed at how simple it was after a few minutes of acclimation. He has
tried to instill in me to use NBAC as my primary attitude control and
just use the AI to confirm everything. This really helps your mind get
over the dependency on the AI if it goes down.
I find with this strategy, I'm practicing partial panel all the time,
even in VFR. If the sucker quits sucking, it makes the transition a
snap since there is no transition.
To keep this thread on topic, I'm putting Vac gyros with mainifold
backup and a Navaid T/C-A/P in my -6A. The Navaid will be on the
essential bus. If I lose juice and I'm CAVU then I can just shut it off
manually.
Steven Spruell
RV-6A N316RV (fuselage)
Houston Bay Area RVators
http://www.iwl.net/customers/markr/hbar
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
Hi Robert,
You are absolutely correct. My Maneuvering speed limit could actually
be higher with higher gross weight rather than lower. Going back to the
back of the envelope with A=F/M, if I keep "A" constant at 6.5Gs and
increase the gross weight (M) then F (force) can be increased such that the
ratio of F/M stays at 6.5Gs or as you stated I can maneuver at higher
airspeed. Thanks for comments on Mazda engine installation. Just about
ready to get a DAR to inspect it, but will probably wait until after holiday
calms down.
Ed
----------
From: Robert Acker
Subject: Re: Fwd: RV-List: RV-8 Gross wt q's
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 3:02PM
>
> I did some back of envelope calculations with a
> gross weight limit of 1800 lbs up from Van's 1650 and concluded I needed
> to lower my Maneuvering speed from 130 MPH to 125 MPH
Ed,
References I found to make sure I remembered old ground lessons
correctly:
Va = Maximum Maneuvering Speed - a function of the design limit load and
the aircraft stalling speed, this is the maximum speed at which full or
abrupt control usage should not exceed the structural limits of the
aircraft since the aircraft should stall at or below this speed prior
to achieving limit load (from http://www.capellakitplanes.com/vspd.htm).
*Va varies proportional to gross weight. It is the maximum speed at which
you can fly into turbulence or make an abrupt control deflection. If you do
either of these at a speed above Va, structural failure may result. Below
Va, a stall will occur before any structural damage can happen (from
http://pw2.netcom.com/~aerotape/answers.html).
All other things being equal, a given aircraft stalls at a higher airspeed
as weight increases, therefore maneuvering speed *increases* with weight.
In other words, you should increase Va at higher weights (you will have
equivalent primary structure protection, and an increased margin over
stall). Conversely, you *must* remember to reduce Va at lighter weights,
to assure that the aircraft will stall before breaking.
BTW, your Mazda installation looks great! Keep us posted on flight test
progress, a rotary is what I want to put in after my Lycoming is runout.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
Nicads are fine if you are only flying for less than an hour as they
have less than a quarter the capacity of an alkaline primary cell. I
would suggest you power your GPS from your aircraft battery and use the
internal batteries for backup. (This works with my Garmin GPS 90.)
> ----------
> From: Jeff J. Dingbaum[SMTP:dingbaum(at)hep.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 4:52
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Batteries
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Bob had a some tips about putting new batteries in maybe every other
> flight. What about NiCad? I don't have a GPS, so I don't know if
> they are recommended or not. If the GPS burns batteries this often
> then NiCads would seem like a good fit. Just leave it on after the
> flight until they die out. Then recharge. No memory effect. (I
> cant spell hysteriesis).
>
> How about it? Of course, spare, Fresh alkalines in the bag.
>
> Jeff Dingbaum
> Pilot and Builder wannabee - for now
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | "Both" position on fuel selector |
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
I don't remember now who first posted this question, but you shouldn't
even think about it. Any minor variation in the tank venting will result
in uneven fuel levels in the tanks. It's almost certain to happen. Cessna
gets by with this because their tanks are gravity feed. Please, stick
with a tried and proven fuel system. This way, if you should
accidentally run a tank dry, you can switch tanks and continue flying
with heightened awareness of your fuel situation. That sudden silence
gets your attention real fast.
Regards, Bill Davis, N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EDWARD HASCH JR <hasch(at)earthlink.net> |
I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE SOUTHERN
REGION AND TRAVEL IN MY RV-6. ANYONE NEEDING A DAR PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL
I CHARGE $275.00 PLUS GAS MONEY.
ED HASCH
DAR-CFI-A&P IA
EAA TECH COUN AND FLIGHT ADVISOR
RES 615-824-4704 WORK 615-275-3418
104 SHILOH RIDGE
HENDERSONVILLE TN 37075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Primer, Primer who's got the Primer |
And then the Sherwin Williams rep spake, "The GBP-988 cometh in aerosol spray cans
only. Buyeth them by the case and rejoice in lower unit cost."
And the RV-builder whineth, "Can't I get it in a can?"
What do you guys thinketh?
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
08B (currently 9F)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
| Subject: | solar battery chargers |
A correction to the earlier post, I just checked the one I built last
night and the board came from Jaycar, so sorry about that.
The unit has a Motorola switch mode controller chip driving a set of
transistors controling a choke. It switches from a step-up to a
step-down supply based on its input voltage controlling a via a 15V
zener diode and a transistor that biases the step-down transistor off if
the voltage is below 15V.
I will try to track down the manual tonight and check that I have this
right and will try to post a parts list, and if I can find the time to
redraft it, a CAD file of the circuit.
> ----------
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III[SMTP:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 7:33
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: solar battery chargers
>
>
>
> >
> >A couple of years ago one of the local OZ electronics magazines
> designed
> >a switchmode battery charger for car use that would work on a solar
> >panel voltage of 6V to 24V. A company called Altronics was selling
> kits
> >based on this. Would you like further details?
>
> Yes I would . . .
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
> < Show me where I'm wrong. >
> =================================
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
Thank you for your kind words.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Acker <r.acker(at)thegrid.net>
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 1:57 PM
>
>> Unusual Attitudes 101
>
>Printed out, posted to workshop door, archived on computer. Piece of
>gold...thanks!
>
>Rob (RV-6Q).
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau) |
| Subject: | Re: Primer, Primer who's got the Primer |
Nick,
it does come in a can....the same Sherwin Williams Distributor can
get you a data sheet on the "canned" version of the product.
Paul Bilodeau
MT 4G-225
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
732-957-6611
ps I may still have mine somewhere around the factory.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
HI Ed,
I have an RV-6A, N494BW, with a Mazda 13B rotary engine as the power
plant. Don't know if this is a little too far for you to come to Northen
Virginia as part of Southern Region or not. I have a complete(I believe)
AirWorthiness application package which I retrived from Local FAA after two
months of no action. Actually, the FAA folks were friendly, just busy with
higher priority things. In any case, I am doing some last minute things and
would not want to do this before holidays are over, but would be interested
in the Mid Jan 98 time frame.
If interested drop me an e mail or call me regarding costs.
Ed
Ed Anderson
andersone(at)bah.com
(703) 759-6712 Home
(703) 902-7005 Work
----------
From: EDWARD HASCH JR
Subject: RV-List: DAR SERVICE
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 5:07PM
I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE SOUTHERN
REGION AND TRAVEL IN MY RV-6. ANYONE NEEDING A DAR PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL
I CHARGE $275.00 PLUS GAS MONEY.
ED HASCH
DAR-CFI-A&P IA
EAA TECH COUN AND FLIGHT ADVISOR
RES 615-824-4704 WORK 615-275-3418
104 SHILOH RIDGE
HENDERSONVILLE TN 37075
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
| Subject: | "Both" position on fuel selector |
I think a point should be made that high wing Cesses also have a left /
right selection and, if I remember correctly ( it having been four years
since I flew one), if you are below quarter full you are supposed to
select left or right before landing due to the possibility of fuel
starvation on approach. Low wing Cesses have a left/ both OFF/ right
selector ( and doesn't that cause some confusion for low time pilots).
> ----------
> From: rvpilot(at)juno.com[SMTP:rvpilot(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 3:28
> To: rvlist(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: "Both" position on fuel selector
>
>
> I don't remember now who first posted this question, but you
> shouldn't
> even think about it. Any minor variation in the tank venting will
> result
> in uneven fuel levels in the tanks. It's almost certain to happen.
> Cessna
> gets by with this because their tanks are gravity feed. Please,
> stick
> with a tried and proven fuel system. This way, if you should
> accidentally run a tank dry, you can switch tanks and continue flying
> with heightened awareness of your fuel situation. That sudden silence
> gets your attention real fast.
>
> Regards, Bill Davis, N66WD
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Both" position on fuel selector |
>I don't remember now who first posted this question, but you shouldn't
>even think about it. Any minor variation in the tank venting will result
>in uneven fuel levels in the tanks. It's almost certain to happen. Cessna
>gets by with this because their tanks are gravity feed.
Bill, flow between tanks whether high wing or low wing is induced
by a combination of gravity, and pressure differentials due
to combined effects of fuel pumps, atmospheric (static) and
pitot (dynamic) pressures, and flow restrictions due to
friction in the plumbing.
> . . . . . Please, stick
>with a tried and proven fuel system. This way, if you should
>accidentally run a tank dry, you can switch tanks and continue flying
>with heightened awareness of your fuel situation. That sudden silence
>gets your attention real fast.
The inference is that the system under discussion will automatically
result in the "quite engine" syndrome with a useable quantity of fuel
left in one tank. The question is not whether a traditional system
should be abandoned but what are the physics surrounding the flow
problem. I can cite a LOT of "tried and proven" systems flying today
that are revered simply because of their longevity in certified
airplanes . . . long after everyone forgot why that decision was made.
If we're interested in progress, then we have to accept change. If
a change is proposed, then then we should be prepared to do the
science to either pursue or discard the idea . . . tried and proven
in a certified world gets you Cessna 172s.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>Bob had a some tips about putting new batteries in maybe every other
>flight. What about NiCad? I don't have a GPS, so I don't know if
>they are recommended or not. If the GPS burns batteries this often
>then NiCads would seem like a good fit. Just leave it on after the
>flight until they die out. Then recharge. No memory effect. (I
>cant spell hysteriesis).
Nicads have very poor energy densities compared to disposable
alkalines. I used to use them in my photography equipment but
got tired of having to carry multiple sets and keep them together
in sets for discharge/recharge, etc. There's also the "latent
capacity problem" . . . how much capacity does that battery have
after x-years or n-cycles??? You have exactly the same problem
with the battery in your airplane. Unless you have a means
for periodically measuring capacity, how much faith should
you put in the device for standby power?
>How about it? Of course, spare, Fresh alkalines in the bag.
You what some AA ni-cads? I got a drawer full of them that
have been laying there for years. I used ni-cads in my hand
held radio packs and replace the cells en-mass every two years
on alternate years for each pack . . . just like I would do
in my airplane. But if you want the longest possible cycle
time for any battery, a fresh alkaline cell is impossible
to match in any technology you and I can afford.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>> Try it next time you're up
>> in a spam can. Put your head down and let the co-pilot place the
>> airplane in a non-level attitude with gyros covered. Recovery to
>> straight and level using NBA technique is a snap.
>> Bob . . .
>> AeroElectric Connection
>
> The NBA technique might work a bit better with a conventional turn
>coordinator than with the Navaid. The light bars of the Navaid are not as
>easy to use as the needle, IMO. They tend to wash out in sunlight.
If you're in sunlite, you don't need the turn coordinator. If
your turn coordinator is also a wing levler, let it do the flying.
> . . . Of
>course, I'm a VFR only pilot so I'd probably be up a creek in IMC
>conditions. I did fly for one hour with an instructor last year, under the
>hood. He put is all sorts of awful positions and I was very surprised that
>I never "lost it" as it had been quite some time since I've done any hood
>work. I'll tell you what, after that, I was beat, hot and sweaty--went
>home, took a shower and went to bed. I felt liked I'd been rode hard and
>put away wet (ranch talk). I like my simple, vfr only way of life.
Don't recall what part of the woods you live in but around here there
are several "vfr" days a year when haze or overcast merging with
a snowed on horizon, or a really dark night over eastern New Mexico
that some IFR techniques are really handy. The less comfortable you
are with doing it by hand, the more you ought to "let Joe do it"
(I think that's what the ol' salts called the autopilot).
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unusual attitudes |
>It is my hope that those who have downplayed the importance of the trusty
>turn and bank are those who aspire to be instrument pilots rather than those
>who are. It is further my hope that those who are instrument pilots and
>take the approach if I the vacuum pump quits I am dead anyway will go back
>and get some partial panel practice. It is not difficult and it is not
>taught nearly enough. I did not really do it until I got my ATP and then I
>was amazed at how simple it really was. Not to shoot precision approaches
>to minimums but all that is required is to keep the airplane right side up
>and find help.
>
>
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal
>dougr(at)petroblend.com
>http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
Hear, HEAR!!!!!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
>
> I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE SOUTHERN
> REGION AND TRAVEL IN MY RV-6. ANYONE NEEDING A DAR PLEASE GIVE ME A
> CALL
> I CHARGE $275.00 PLUS GAS MONEY.
>
> ED HASCH
> DAR-CFI-A&P IA
> EAA TECH COUN AND FLIGHT ADVISOR
> RES 615-824-4704 WORK 615-275-3418
> 104 SHILOH RIDGE
> HENDERSONVILLE TN 37075
>
HI THERE ------WELL DONE!!!!!! JOHN M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Both" position on fuel selector |
William R. Davis Jr wrote:
> I don't remember now who first posted this question, but you shouldn't
> even think about it. Any minor variation in the tank venting will result
> in uneven fuel levels in the tanks. It's almost certain to happen.
I will repeat some of my previous post that the YAK-52 that
I fly works quite well with ONLY an on/off valve AND, NO
electric boost pumps. I'll have to check the fuel schematic
to see how it does so well. I've never had an unequal fuel
usage problem.
What do the Ruskies know that Van's doesn't. :-)
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
NiCads also eventually run out.
I think I was on NiCad when the GPS died. If the flight is long enough and
you did not JUST recharge (I hadn't) then you may get caught. And if you
are IFR (or close to it), changing batteries is NOT something I think you
want to be doing (I know I don't).
Another trip (from Sun-N-Fun) saw the death of my alternator (severe clear
VFR). Continued to fly (flight of two) using handheld and GPS. Guess what??
Batteries died in my pilot friend's handheld radio. No problem, use mine.
Batteries died (*thought* they were fresh). No problem, use some of the
extras. Ooops. We inadvertently packed the new ones we just bought under
the tent and other stuff from Sun-N-Fun.
Fortunately I had just enough power in my main aircraft battery to transmit
a couple of times and run the transponder after coming rather close to 6-8
C-141s??? (Big military transports flying REALLY low [non-MOA]). We made it
safely to SC (CAE), but of all times I get vectors around lots of
commercial traffic. Finally, after landing, during taxi, the batteries in
the GPS also give out.
The moral of the story (apologies to Bob for the somewhat Nuckolls-esque
tone ;-) )
1. Don't depend upon one thing to get you there if you can help it
(Have backups/Plan B)
2. If batteries are involved, ASSUME they *will* die somewhere in flight.
3. Know what you plan to do when they do.
By the way, the GPS is normally powered from the aircraft but I have had
cases of the power contact not being made well and my running off batteries
when I thought I was on aircraft power. [Garmin GPSmap 195] If not caught,
I could have proceeded into a situation **thinking** I had (new/fresh)
battery power when I didn't.
As we build these planes of our dreams, we must keep in mind ... stuff
happens, be prepared, so we can all fly safe.
<>
Sorry for the rambling on.
James
RV6AQB wings closed.
----------
> From: Jeff J. Dingbaum <dingbaum(at)hep.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Batteries
> Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 12:52 PM
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Bob had a some tips about putting new batteries in maybe every other
> flight. What about NiCad? I don't have a GPS, so I don't know if
> they are recommended or not. If the GPS burns batteries this often
> then NiCads would seem like a good fit. Just leave it on after the
> flight until they die out. Then recharge. No memory effect. (I
> cant spell hysteriesis).
>
> How about it? Of course, spare, Fresh alkalines in the bag.
>
> Jeff Dingbaum
> Pilot and Builder wannabee - for now
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
>
>Again I ask indulgence while I editorialize,
>
>I am concerned that several times in recent posts on this thread I have seen
>references to the "useless" turn and bank.
Doug,
Don't worry, I'm the ONLY one who suggested that the T/C is useless. I
originally hoped that I would have my suspicions confirmed or would get
good info. to make me change my mind. The discussion started off badly but
now seems ( at least to me ) to have been very much worthwhile. Since we
have come this far, I hope you will indulge me if I probe a little
further.......
Two Artificial horizons can replace the
>T&B but unless at least one is non-tumbling it is a bad plan.
I had not thought of that.
Does non-tumbling mean it continues to provide attitude info even if ( for
example ) inverted? Or does it mean that the gyro can be erected once
normal flight attitude is re-established? I thought the latter.
I have had "the treatment" many times but always was taught to use the
horizon to level the wings. I am going to grab a CFI soon and try this
using the T/C. I have printed your reply and will review it thoroughly first.
>It is my hope that those who have downplayed the importance of the trusty
>turn and bank are those who aspire to be instrument pilots rather than those
>who are.
Again, there is no "those", just me. Yes, I am aspiring and want to go
into this with my eyes wide open as well as make the best decisions for my
RV. Thanks again for the note.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
>Don't worry, I'm the ONLY one who suggested that the T/C is useless. I
>originally hoped that I would have my suspicions confirmed or would get
>good info. to make me change my mind. The discussion started off badly but
>now seems ( at least to me ) to have been very much worthwhile. Since we
>have come this far, I hope you will indulge me if I probe a little
>further.......
I really did see other comments to this effect on related threads!
>Does non-tumbling mean it continues to provide attitude info even if ( for
>example ) inverted? Or does it mean that the gyro can be erected once
>normal flight attitude is re-established? I thought the latter.
Military gyros and many ADI's in turbine aircraft work in three axis all the
way around!
> I have had "the treatment" many times but always was taught to use the
>horizon to level the wings. I am going to grab a CFI soon and try this
>using the T/C. I have printed your reply and will review it thoroughly
first.
At the risk of being redundant it is most likely the horizon that got you in
trouble in the first place.
>
>>It is my hope that those who have downplayed the importance of the trusty
>>turn and bank are those who aspire to be instrument pilots rather than
those
>>who are.
>
>Again, there is no "those", just me. Yes, I am aspiring and want to go
>into this with my eyes wide open as well as make the best decisions for my
>RV. Thanks again for the note.
>
>John
Thank you for listening. On a related note, I apoligize for responding to
Charlie K.'s note on the list, It came to my Inbox without a "RV-list" in
the subject and I assume it was sent directly and clicked reply.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
>>They said an in-cockpit installation would almost certainly affect
elevator>>
I am planing on using the Navaid A/P. I am closing the LH wing. Any one
that has installed the unit in the wing, I would like to know where you
installed it.
Jerry indicated his is in the fuselage & he is happy with it. Sure would
like to close the wing, but I can hold off.
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GARY HARVELL <harvell(at)monroeville.gulf.net> |
Has anybody ever put their battery behind the seat or in the
luggage compartment? If so, how did you run your battery
cables?
Gary Harvell
wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "blanton, stanley" <stanb(at)door.net> |
I've been following the gyros thread and am interested in a standby vacuum
system.
While a person could purchase the Precise Flight ($350) system there must
be a cheaper way.
The main components are a pressure transducer, a warning light, a three way
valve and a control cable for the valve.
Questions:
Does anyone know of a source for a suitable valve that would draw from one
of two inlets and output through a single outlet?
Where would the system hook to an injected engine to draw the vacuum (and
what size hose)?
If I could get these two questions answered I'm sure a low cost system
could be fabricated.
Does anyone have any experience with the Precise Flight system?
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
RV-6 misc. interior stuff
stanb(at)door.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6ToBuild <RV6ToBuild(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
Hi I am building an RV6A with electric flaps. I have been told the electric
flaps are slow and require holding a switch until the desired position. I
have several ways of fixing the switch holding problem, but what I really need
to know is, how many positions do I need. I have plans for installing a
microprocessor based flap control system that will allow you to select a
position and forget it. Of course the system will have manual override and a
few other safety items incorporated.
Does anyone have input for me, good, bad or other wise.
Cameron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen, Brent" <BAllen(at)uci.edu> |
| Subject: | Bent / Curved VS608PP |
Hello,
My VS608PP has a noticeable bend in it. If I were to lay it on
a table the 'forked' end would be over 1/2 in. above the table top.
Since VS603pp is straight and the plans don't mention about which way
the Convex side goes against it, would it be acceptable to just 'bend
it over my knee' until it lies flat?
I'm a newbie, just got the tail kit, and am starting to
transform my small dining room into a small shop.
Thanks,
Brent Allen
BAllen(at)uci.edu
RV6A - Looking at my tail parts :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
I can't speak to the competence of the design, but a recent (Nov ?)
Kitplanes magazine had a logic design for what you describe. Pushbutton
selection of flap position. It looked more complex than necessary, but I'm
clearly no judge. Anyone know how the Cessna ones work?
Alex Peterson
6A finishing kit
Maple Grove MN
> Hi I am building an RV6A with electric flaps. I have been told the
electric
> flaps are slow and require holding a switch until the desired position.
I
> have several ways of fixing the switch holding problem, but what I really
need
> to know is, how many positions do I need. I have plans for installing a
> microprocessor based flap control system that will allow you to select a
> position and forget it. Of course the system will have manual override
and a
> few other safety items incorporated.
> Does anyone have input for me, good, bad or other wise.
> Cameron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
I have an RV-4 with a rounded rollbar. The builder took it to a welding shop
and had it altered. When I bought the plane I took it and had it chromed. What
a difference this makes in the looks of the plane, both in and out! Cost about
50.00 for chroming. Also since the rollbar winds up being the grab handle for
getting in and out, chroming is much more durable.
Von Alexander
N107RV (RV-4)
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
RV-8 tail almost done, wings on the way
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | New soundproofing materials battle noise |
Two new additions to the sound proofing arsenal - Super Sound Proofing
Liquid and Super Sound Proofing Flooring Mat.
The liquid can be painted on where mat is too difficult to apply as
well as for tail cones, etc. It reduces reverbant noise and acts as a
absorbent. Easily applied with a brush.
Super Sound Proofing Flooring is a mat, bonding a wear resistant heavy
vinyl to a closed cell foam. It's a material about 1/4" thick for
vehicle floors to combat noise and vibration. Sold by the foot, it's
54" wide.
Check the web page below for more info or call.
Hard-to find-info:
This little "HOW TO" manual was first written in 1992 for the aircraft
mechanic, but is simple enough to follow for the handy plane owner or
homebuilder. It's been recently updated with more info and now
provides info on boats, cars, home and office! Covers materials,
application and fire safety, FAA regulations, certs, sources, etc.
You can get a text file of it (no illustrations) by return e-mail
from our MAILBOT:
soundprf(at)pdsig.n2.net
nothing is needed in the text message. Or send your name and address
for a free hard copy (with illustrations) by return US mail. A web
page at:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/page4.html
Interested in other things aviation? Check out the web site below or
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of interesting stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net Web Site:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: solar battery chargers |
| From: | bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com (Robert L Reeves) |
On the subject of using cigarette lighter sockets, has anyone found a
easy way to keep a plug in when using it for things like a GPS? I've
tied mine in with a piece of string on occations, but there has to be a
better way.
Bob Reeves
Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4
Hidden River Airport,
Sarasota, Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Bob,
As I recall now, this is not the first time I've heard of this phenomena.
It was discussed, albeit briefly, a long time ago on the list I think. The
only thing I can think of is some sort of siphoning action once the one
tank starts pouring fuel from vent. What would start this I'm not sure. I
would postulate that at first, with two full tanks on takeoff and if the
wings are not kept level, then if the engine is not drawing at least the
head pressure from the higher tank it would start pouring out the vent of
the lower level tank and thus start the siphoning. The physics would be
right I think but I'm not sure if the siphoning would be enough to overcome
the pump suction once the wings are leveled again. I guess if the pump can
get it's draw from the other tank the siphoning would continue in the full
tank.
And by the way thanks for calling me on my short answer. Your right, I
should include better explanations so you can rip me a new one more
cleanly. ;-) Al
Al, Bob et al:
>
>>My experience with a fuel selector in the "both" position was that the
>>fuel system would deliver fuel from one tank to the other. When the
>>receiving tank was full, the fuel then went overboard. The RVator
>>published this some time back. My RV-4 has a flop tube in one tank, a
>>Cessna fuel selector, minimal vertical displacement of all fuel lines
>>and vents per plans with pitots on each vent. I believe it would be
>>difficult to know in advance how a given system would function. You
>>could test one and find out but for my money the better way is to forget
>>about the idea of a "both" selector position on an RV.
>>Gordon Comfort
>>N363GC
>
> Good morning Gordon . . . don't hear much from you lately. Have you
> been spending too much time flying/building and not enough time
> at the keyboard? I'm having trouble visualizing the physics of what
> you describe. I know that many high wing airplanes have "both"
> positions (The C-150 I fly does) and some don't (like the C-140).
> It's fairly easy to see how fuel can flow from a higher level in one
> tank to a lower level in the other but what pushes fuel out the top
> of the other? If simply plumbed together and tee'd to the fuel pump,
> how would one tank go dry before the other (asside from cross flow
> due to wings-not-level flight)? In level flight, pressure at the
> tee would be a function of head height of the fuel on each side
> making the fuller tank feed faster than the lower one if indeed
> flow doesn't reverse and move toward the lower level tank.
>
> Obviously, high wing airplanes have a much larger head-pressure at
> the intersection of the two fuel tank lines . . . is there some
> phenonmenon I'm overlooking for low head-pressure scenarios? Suppose
> the tubing sizes were small enough to have significant flow dependent
> pressure drops. During high demand from the engine would it be possible
> for ambient pressure in an empty tank to exceed ambient + head pressure
> in the fuller tank due to flow friction? In this case, vapors would
> indeed be injested instead of fuel . . . perhaps this is avoided by
> LARGER crossfeed tubes between tanks to minimize flow induced friction
> losses.
>
> Al, can you shed some light on the physics of this problem?
>
>
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
> < Show me where I'm wrong. >
> =================================
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> |
Hey Folks,
Just getting started with the forward spar of the HS, and I noticed that the outboard
flanges of the HS602PPs are bent forward instead of aft. The flanges are
shown in the plans and in the G.O. emp video as being bent aft, and I have
seen no reference to this in the RV-LIST archives.
I am in the software biz, so I am being humorous when I ask the group if this is
a "bug" or a "feature".
Any wisdom gratefully welcome
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
08B
#80549
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
RV6ToBuild(at)aol.com wrote:
> to know is, how many positions do I need. I have plans for installing a
> microprocessor based flap control system that will allow you to select a
> position and forget it. Of course the system will have manual override and
> a few other safety items incorporated.
Hi Cameron,
I intend to make my RV-6 a 'smart' plane, but more in the direction of
instruments, nav, and autopilot. I have been developing microprocessor
software for many years, and know a little control theory (ie I'm no
expert at that). This message doesn't answer your question, but I hope
it'll save you some grief. I'm curious as to why you want to use a micro
to control your flap position. Do you have plans for other micros in
your aircraft?
In case you haven't thought of them, here's the problems I see with your
flap control idea:
1. Measuring the amount of flap extension. You'll need to connect some
sort of pot or counter to the flap mechanism. I wouldn't rely on "time
of DC motor running" as a measure of flap position. An alternative might
be to use a stepper motor controlled from your microprocessor, but even
then you can't *guarantee* that the flaps have extended by the amount
you've asked for.
2. It really won't ease the pilot's workload. Setting/retracting flaps
is done once per flight (excluding go-arounds), although at a
high-workload time (especially during go-around). Hell, you might even
have to do your manual override procedure during go-around. It also
precludes setting an 'oddball' amount (eg 23 degrees).
3. It seems overly complex. You're reliant on 12V power (well you are
anyway with electric flaps, I guess), your software, the micro itself,
and the regulated power supply for the micro. Overcoming these reliances
will make it more complex.
I believe you could do the same kind of thing with a couple of switches.
Have one microswitch at the 20 degree position which cuts the "down"
current when it's opened. Have a toggle switch in parallel with this
which is labelled "flap - 20/full". Now, depending on the position of
the "flap - 20/full" switch, the flaps will either stop at 20 degrees or
at full-flap (I assume there's already a limit switch to stop things
when it gets to full flap).
This concept could be extended by making the "flap - 20/full" switch a
multi-position switch (0, 5 degrees, 10 degrees, 20 degrees, 30 degrees,
full-flap) and having a series of microswitches at the appropriate
places on the flap mechanism. Then, make the flap-selector a 2-pole
switch and use the other pole and another cunningly positioned series of
microswitches to switch the "up" current to control moving flaps up. The
'cunning' in the positioning is to ensure that there's no situation
where both 'up' and 'down' current is on simultaneously.
Having built this, you can turn the knob to the desired flap setting
(whether that's up or down from the current position) and the flaps will
move there.
Frank.
(Waiting for Bob N to expose my lack of expertise in this area).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
> The words "protection for construction errors" is misleading.
>Scott this
>is standard aircraft design practices in establishing a metal aircraft
>design limit. Who is this protecting. This is what designers
>consider as
>safe.
Steve your right. I was late to get somewhere and was typing in a hurry.
what I really meant to say is piloting errors.
When you say that you designed a structure to 6 G's you can not
have it designed so that it has a catastrophic failure at 6.1
Steve pretty much explained the rest. If it doesn't all make sense at
least understand that an RV that has a usable aerobatic loading range of
+6 and - 3 G's does not have this rating at the max approved gross
weight.
The max gross weight is at the standard utility loading.
Please don't assume you can extrapolate backwards from gross weight and 6
G's to choose a higher gross weight for your RV.
> What variation was done to the design to account for
>construction errors?
None. The wing was tested to verify no permanent deformation at
6 G'go and no failure until 9.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com wrote:
> Anyone know how the Cessna ones work?
It varies.
Most of the C150s, and all 3 C172s, I've flown have a two-position
toggle switch... switch up, and the flaps keep going up until you either
switch it off or get to zero flaps. Similarly, switch down for flaps
down.
On one 150 Aerobat there was a lever in a panel with a series of
detentes (sp?) at 10, 20, and full IIRC. I guess (but haven't thought
about it until now) that the lever and indicator are both connected to
pots. A comparator compares the resistance between them, and when
they're not equal generates 'up' or 'down' signals as required. This was
a little flaky -- I had to wiggle the lever about a bit to get the first
10 degrees of flap to happen. Not an ideal thing for a low-time pilot to
discover on finals! Made me start a quick mental revision of flap-less
landing technique.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: solar battery chargers |
bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com wrote:
> On the subject of using cigarette lighter sockets, has anyone found a
> easy way to keep a plug in when using it for things like a GPS? I've
> tied mine in with a piece of string on occations, but there has to be a
> better way.
Hmmmm.... I don't understand the problem. I have a Magellan GPS2000
which is wired to a cigarette lighter plug which I bought at a
auto-accessory store. It stays in fine -- used in two C172s. Perhaps
your plug is worn out?
Have you considered flaring before landing? :-)
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Someone sent me mail directly with a couple of questions, and I
accidently deleted the message.
Please send again.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re:unusual attitudes-Doug's post |
Doug,
A classic post. I have included it here in case anyone has deleted it
before realizing just how astute it really is. Al
>I am concerned that several times in recent posts on this thread I have seen
>references to the "useless" turn and bank. Whether you call it that or a
>Bat and Ball or turn coordinator It is an essential instrument in an IFR
>airplane no matter how big or small and it was the first instrument I put in
>the pink panther when I bought it. Two Artificial horizons can replace the
>T&B but unless at least one is non-tumbling it is a bad plan. The purpose
>of the T&B is to be the back up the horizon and be the "lie detector."
>since the T&B is cheap(relatively), dependable, and non-tumbling it is the
>best and most often used alternative.
>
>If you fly with military trained old timers as I often do, you will learn
>that the Airspeed indicator is the first thing to look at in an upset. If
>the speed is high, the next instrument is the T&B, not the horizon. (If the
>speed is low it is the altimeter, the reasons why should be common knowledge
>and unfortunately are not) As I said in a previous post on this subject the
>most likely cause of a serious upset following an errant instrument into an
>unusual attitude. When that occurs it is back to basics. For those who have
>not had the "treatment" here goes!
>
>
>Unusual Attitudes 101
>#1 Airspeed- Speeds high go to "A", Speeds slow go to "B"
>
>A. 1.power off
> 2.T&B level
> 3.Altimeter stopped with pitch (If you are hanging in the straps you
>are upside down but still alive)
>
>B. 1.Max power
> 2.Altimeter stopped with pitch
> 3.T&B level
>
>#2 Restore power and fly needle ball and airspeed.
>
>Why?
>1: The first Instrument to address is always the airspeed it is the most
>critical item and must be controlled first. The power response should
>become obvious and instinctive.
>
>A:
>Speeds hi, power off. With the T&B, level the wings next, because if you
>are in a bank and pull you will end up in a spiral. Therefore it is
>important to level the wings first. Then stop the altimeter. If you get in
>your airplane and pull the nose up 30 degrees and push it over you will
>observe that when the altimeter reverses direction the nose is on the
>horizon. Every time, regardless of bank. It is your best pitch back up.
>
>B:
>Speeds slow, max power. Stop the altimeter. We restore pitch next because
>if you are in a 60 deg nose up and level the wings at low airspeed you will
>probably stall. Again we use the altimeter as a primary pitch instrument
>here. It is really the only one we can trust. Then level the wings with
>the T&B.
>
>#2 Finally restore power and continue Needle ball and airspeed. Contrary
>to popular myth this is not difficult! It is actually easier because there
>are less gauges to look at. Yes shooting approaches is difficult, but
>maintaining upright flight within a couple hundred feet and heading with in
>30 degrees is not. If you have a GPS the heading part is easy! If you are
>in real IFR declare an emergency and get no Gyro vectors to better weather
>or an ASR no gyro approach. This is not that hard either.
>
>It is my hope that those who have downplayed the importance of the trusty
>turn and bank are those who aspire to be instrument pilots rather than those
>who are. It is further my hope that those who are instrument pilots and
>take the approach if I the vacuum pump quits I am dead anyway will go back
>and get some partial panel practice. It is not difficult and it is not
>taught nearly enough. I did not really do it until I got my ATP and then I
>was amazed at how simple it really was. Not to shoot precision approaches
>to minimums but all that is required is to keep the airplane right side up
>and find help.
>
>
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal
>dougr(at)petroblend.com
>http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "Both" position on fuel selector |
Bob,
When you look at the schematic, check for "one way" valves or gates in the
system. There should be one for each line to the fuel pump. Or does the YAK
have a header tank before the fuel pump? Either should eliminate the
problem if it starts siphoning. I am not suggesting by any strech of the
imagination of changing VANS system! Al
>I will repeat some of my previous post that the YAK-52 that
>I fly works quite well with ONLY an on/off valve AND, NO
>electric boost pumps. I'll have to check the fuel schematic
>to see how it does so well. I've never had an unequal fuel
>usage problem.
>What do the Ruskies know that Van's doesn't. :-)
>
>Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EDWARD HASCH JR <hasch(at)earthlink.net> |
Based Gallatin TN (M33) Hangared 340 TTAF 985 SMOH PP 0-320-E3D 150 HP
Sterba 68X68-Sliding Canopy-Gyros-Elect T/C-GPS-AT150 Mode C-ICOM A200
COM-Escort II NAV/COM-ELT-EGT/MP-Instru Lights-Intercom-Whelan NAV and
Strobes-Taxi/Landing Light-Full Swival Tail Wheel-Loretsen Interior-
12 Lb Starter Ring Weight-3 Pos Man Flaps-Man Ail and Pitch Trim-
Day/Night OPS-175 MPH Cruise at 2500 RPM-Smooth Airplane-Polished
Aluminum Finish-Outstanding IN and OUT. Built by owner 1992
Price $57,000.
Ed Hasch
A$P IA,CFI,FAA-DAR
RES 615-824-4704 Office 615-275-3418
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer, Primer who's got the Primer |
>
>
>And then the Sherwin Williams rep spake, "The GBP-988 cometh in aerosol
spray cans only. Buyeth them by the case and rejoice in lower unit cost."
>
Just bought some today that was not in an aerosol!! The guy is wrong you
can buy it in quart and gallon cans. Got mine at a Sherwin Williams Auto
Body and Paint store.
Also bought some aerosol to try it out.
Bill Pagan
-8A Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
When I read that note about a TC I was glad he was not PIC for me in IMC and
instructed to hold at an intersection. How does one with out a Turn Coor,
determin a standard rate turn. Time & Heading
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
> I have had "the treatment" many times but always was taught to use the
>horizon to level the wings. I am going to grab a CFI soon and try this
>using the T/C. I have printed your reply and will review it thoroughly first.
When doing unusual attitudes under simulated instrument conditions for my
private, my CFI used to cover the horizon and DG with tape. I was taught
that your eyes go to the airspeed indicator first to note the TREND (ie.
rising or falling) and then immediately to the turn coordinator to level the
wings. Forget the horizon. It may be tumbling and you may not have time to
determine if that is the case. Go to what you know to be accurate - Turn
coordinator.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
.
Bill Boyd
Hope it's not too
late! Don't cut them!
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
Construcing a rudder from a bunch of flimsy pieces
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
nick is a possible failure point.
I, too, am building on the empennage for my 6A. Starting to drop hints
about ordering wings soon to the wife. She just gives me the "Yeah Right"
look. I just started the rudder.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
Rudder puzzling
BTW, Congrats and welcome to the RV world!!
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Bob,
I'll bet that ability came from all those times you were thrown from a
horse and landed on your feet! ;-) Al
>I did fly for one hour with an instructor last year, under the
>hood. He put is all sorts of awful positions and I was very surprised that
>I never "lost it" as it had been quite some time since I've done any hood
>work. I'll tell you what, after that, I was beat, hot and sweaty--went
>home, took a shower and went to bed. I felt liked I'd been rode hard and
>put away wet (ranch talk). I like my simple, vfr only way of life.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
| From: | m.talley(at)juno.com (Michael L Talley) |
When you get your pre positioning flap controls worked out please share.
There is a company who was planning to make such a system to interface
with Van's flap actuator but I haven't seen or heard from them in a long
while. They advertized in KitPlanes a while back. I'd like the same
system for my RV-6
Mike Talley RV-6 skinning the second wing
were
having a rigging problem due to the wear on the parts in the panel.
Mike Talley RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: solar battery chargers |
>
>bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com wrote:
>> On the subject of using cigarette lighter sockets, has anyone found a
>> easy way to keep a plug in when using it for things like a GPS? I've
>> tied mine in with a piece of string on occations, but there has to be a
>> better way.
Cigar lighter sockets are really peachy keen for cirgar lighters . . .
if you'd like a SECURE hand held power connector that latches into
place but comes out with one hand take a look at Radio Shack
catalog number 274-010 plug and mating jack 274-013. The set
costs $8.50, is a little smaller than the cigar lighter style
hardware and 1000% more reliable.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | RV-8 leading edge skin fit |
Brian:
Re:"... In pulling the leading edge skin tight to the nose ribs..it
seems like
there won't be enough material left to trim away at the bottom edge
where it meets with the outboard lower wing skin. There's just not
enough material to maintain minimum rivet hole to edge distance along
the spar rivet line after filing away on it."
My experience was that I had about 1/32" overlap on the bottom, with
the ribs snug in their nest at the leading edge. I filed this off
(very carefully) and now have a butted joint and have adequate edge
distance on the holes.
George
#80006
Just finished left fuel tank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "blanton, stanley" <stanb(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
I thought I would share how I am installing a Navaid servo in the wing.
Though my wings have been done for a long, long time I just recently
decided
to install the Navaid servo in the wing.
I am doing it through the inspection hole in the right wing but the
procedure would apply to either. While it can certainly be done after the
wing is closed it would be much easier if done before the bottom skin is
riveted on.
Here's the way I'm doing it - not necessarily the only way, just my way.
The servo is mounted on the inboard side of the wing rib at Sta. 83.5 with
the long dimension oriented fore and aft (the only way it will fit) just
aft of the main spar. This location is between the spar and the W-425
gussets so the rib is pretty stiff. Access is through the aileron
bellcrank inspection hole and the cover to the servo can be removed for
calibration and adjustment. The complete servo can also be removed throught
the inspection hole.
Align the servo to position its bellcrank in the same plane as the aileron
bellcrank. The cover of the servo will be facing inboard. The cover screws
will have to be repositioned from the ends to the top of the cover. Be sure
and position the servo far enough aft so that the mounting screws that are
on the spar end of the servo will not be blocked by the tie down bracket.
Also be on the alert for interference with holes in the ribs that have been
made for wiring runs. (Personal experience)
This places the servo close to the top skin with the bellcrank on the
bottom side. The bellcrank arm will need to be rotated 90 degrees from the
position it is in as received. The servo bellcrank will face aft when
installed. I understand the servo will have to be recalibrated but haven't
got that far yet. Not supposed to be a big deal according to Navaid.
Two .125 x 1.5 x 7.5(approx. length) reinforcing plates are riveted to the
inboard side of the rib in a vertical orientation. They stiffen the rib but
mainly are there to provide material to mount the plate nuts on. Some small
notches may may need to be made in the reinforcing plates to clear screw
heads on the bottom of the servo. The servo is mounted with 6-32 screws. A
couple of small notches may have to be made in the edge of the rib
lightening hole to let two of the plate nuts clear. The upper plate nuts
will be riveted through both the rib and reinforcing plate while the lower
two will be attached just to the reinforcing plates since they are in the
rib lightening hole area.
I'm going to attach the pushrod to the aileron bellcrank either directly or
with a tab near the small spacer on the side of the bellcrank that connects
to the fuselage pushrod. (Doesn't sound too clear, does it?) I'm trying to
keep the arm distances on the aileron and servo bellcranks close to the
same lenghts. Make sure the rod end doesn't hit the aileron bellcrank
mounting angles.
I am upgrading the pushrod to use 8-32 rod end bearings but they are
obscenely expensive. The standard 6-32 rod ends just looked a little on the
skinny side to me. This mod also requires fabricating a new bellcrank for
the servo so it's another example of one change leading to another.
Remember to be sure and have the ailerons hit their stops before the servo
hits its stops or the servo will be damaged.
If you later change your mind about installing the servo your only weight
penalty is the small reinforcing plates.
I'll answer any questions if I can and am certainly open to suggestions for
improvements.
Stan Blanton
RV-6
stanb(at)door.net
________________________________________________________________________________
<34970B32.BD06B829(at)earthlink.net>
| From: | rvsixer(at)juno.com (michael d hilger) |
writes:
>
>EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
>
>>
>> I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE
>SOUTHERN
>> REGION AND TRAVEL IN MY RV-6. ANYONE NEEDING A DAR PLEASE GIVE ME A
>> CALL
>> I CHARGE $275.00 PLUS GAS MONEY.
>>
>> ED HASCH
>> DAR-CFI-A&P IA
>> EAA TECH COUN AND FLIGHT ADVISOR
>> RES 615-824-4704 WORK 615-275-3418
>> 104 SHILOH RIDGE
>> HENDERSONVILLE TN 37075
Why isn't the FAA inspecting our airplanes and issuing the
airworthiness certificates? That's one of the good things the feds could
do for us but it is like pulling teeth to get an inspector out to do it.
This past June a friend needed his -6 looked at and checked with the
local (Minneapolis) FSDO. Twice he talked to people on loan from other
FSDO's and they said the regular inspector was out and that "they don't
have any funding for that" and gave him a VERY short list of DAR's.
Finally, my friend stopped in at the FSDO. Not only was our inspector in
that day, but when he found out about the needed inspection, he said "How
about this afternoon?". My friend was flying less than a week later.
Unfortunately, this inspector died a couple of months ago. The nearest
DAR was some guy that spends his summers on Lake of the Woods and he
wants several hundred dollars plus mileage for something the feds are
supposed to do for free. DAR's are a great resource but they are too
scarce and as I understand it the feds are stingy when it comes to
authorizing more. When I'm finished I hope the feds can issue my
certificate and I hope the person who shows up knows something about RV's
and doen't try to nit-pick it to pieces (as we've read about in the
archives). Come on FAA, either do the inspections yourselves or authorize
more good, knowledgeable DAR's.
Mike Hilger
RV-6 N207AM
Finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | "Both" position on fuel selector |
>I think a point should be made that high wing Cesses also have a left /
>right selection and, if I remember correctly ( it having been four years
>since I flew one), if you are below quarter full you are supposed to
>select left or right before landing due to the possibility of fuel
>starvation on approach. . . .
The reason for this is that nearly empty tanks will unport in
uncoordinated turns or slips. I did a lot of work on some Barron
accidents some years back were Beech was being hammered for an
alleged design fault . . . seems some pilots were hauling off
at less than Vmc and loosing one engine . . . high speed taxi
turn unported tank on outboard side of turn. Slug of air reached
engine just about the time he broke ground. Very messy business.
But, this can happen with both high wing and low wing airplanes.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | RV6 Electric Flap Control |
>I can't speak to the competence of the design, but a recent (Nov ?)
>Kitplanes magazine had a logic design for what you describe. Pushbutton
>selection of flap position. It looked more complex than necessary, but I'm
>clearly no judge. Anyone know how the Cessna ones work?
>
I'm certainly no expert, but it seems you could emulate the Cessna system by
using a momentary type switch that you had to hold on lower the flaps until
the desired angle is reached and then have the "up" position stay on until
the flaps fully retract. At which time a limit switch will stop current to
the motor. This works OK for Cessna, but you have to remember that the "up"
position is not a momentary contact and that the flaps will continue to
retract until they are all the way off. I have overshot tail wind landings
at the small, one-way strip I fly off of necessitating a go around.
Obviously in my attempt to make the runway without forward slipping, I had
gone to full flaps and when the go-around was initiated I hit the flap
switch to go to 20 degrees and forgot about it. Needless to say, the flaps
continued to retract until all the way off and the plane sank considerably
at that low of airspeed. No danger, but something to consider.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
Rudder
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unusual attitudes / IFR Flight |
Fellow Listers:
Just a quick comment on instrument flight in RVs. I have just begun to give
instrument dual to a local RV-6 owner who desires to get an instrument
rating. He came to this conclusion after a rather harrowing experience this
past summer inadvertently flying into IFR conditions in his -6 and feeling
fortunate to have escaped unharmed.
At the moment his -6 is not equipped with gyros. He has the proper
instruments and avionics on order to get this aircraft IFR certified. In
the meantime, I have been giving him basic partial panel instruction as an
introduction to instrument training. My thoughts:
1. RV aircraft are not the best instrument platforms. They are fast,
sensitive on the ailerons, and demand considerably more attention than a
strut-braced Cessna. They are not as inherently stable.
2. My student has been yanking and banking his -6 for 500 plus hours VFR.
RVs lend themselves to this type of flying (it's fun!!). But the transition
to the gentle touch of instrument flying has been a challenge for him.
Finger tip pressures only! A spiral dive and loss of altitude can easily
occur.
3. I truly feel that to be a practical IFR airplane one needs a
wing-leveler (the -6 in question does have a Nav Aid unit installed). An RV
would be a handful single-pilot IFR without one.
4. Usually I don't begin an initial student with partial panel work, but in
this case I think it will prove very beneficial when we get the full panel
operational. It demands developing a good instrument scan and I can see
this happening alread in just the last severals hours.
5. The -6 is truly a high performance airplane. IFR flight will demand
much more discipline and workload than a "standard" instrument trainer. It
may take longer to obtain an instrument rating in a RV, but my student has
the advantage of being very familiar with the aircraft.
I've given lots of instrument training over the years, but never in an RV.
It will be an education for both of us.
Doug Weiler, pres, MN Wing, CFIAI, ATP
dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 For Sale |
--------------7AE50374626A4DF79F93FF20
EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
>
> Based Gallatin TN (M33) Hangared 340 TTAF 985 SMOH PP 0-320-E3D 150
> HP
> Sterba 68X68-Sliding Canopy-Gyros-Elect T/C-GPS-AT150 Mode C-ICOM A200
>
> COM-Escort II NAV/COM-ELT-EGT/MP-Instru Lights-Intercom-Whelan NAV and
>
> Strobes-Taxi/Landing Light-Full Swival Tail Wheel-Loretsen Interior-
> 12 Lb Starter Ring Weight-3 Pos Man Flaps-Man Ail and Pitch Trim-
> Day/Night OPS-175 MPH Cruise at 2500 RPM-Smooth Airplane-Polished
> Aluminum Finish-Outstanding IN and OUT. Built by owner 1992
> Price $57,000.
>
> Ed Hasch
> A$P IA,CFI,FAA-DAR
> RES 615-824-4704 Office 615-275-3418
> ED
THIS IS A BETTER POST,LETS SEE WHAT
HAPPENS.................................JOHN
--------------7AE50374626A4DF79F93FF20
EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
Based Gallatin TN (M33) Hangared 340 TTAF 985 SMOH PP 0-320-E3D
150 HP
Sterba 68X68-Sliding Canopy-Gyros-Elect T/C-GPS-AT150 Mode C-ICOM A200
COM-Escort II NAV/COM-ELT-EGT/MP-Instru Lights-Intercom-Whelan NAV
and
Strobes-Taxi/Landing Light-Full Swival Tail Wheel-Loretsen Interior-
12 Lb Starter Ring Weight-3 Pos Man Flaps-Man Ail and Pitch Trim-
Day/Night OPS-175 MPH Cruise at 2500 RPM-Smooth Airplane-Polished
Aluminum Finish-Outstanding IN and OUT. Built by owner 1992
Price $57,000.
Ed Hasch
A$P IA,CFI,FAA-DAR
RES 615-824-4704 Office 615-275-3418
ED
THIS IS A BETTER POST,LETS SEE WHAT HAPPENS.................................JOHN
| Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites
at http://www.matronics.com
|
---
|
---
| Please aggressively
--------------7AE50374626A4DF79F93FF20--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "Both" position on fuel selector |
>I will repeat some of my previous post that the YAK-52 that
>I fly works quite well with ONLY an on/off valve AND, NO
>electric boost pumps. I'll have to check the fuel schematic
>to see how it does so well. I've never had an unequal fuel
>usage problem.
>
>What do the Ruskies know that Van's doesn't. :-)
>
>Bob Moore
I'll bet we'll discover that properly designed, either
system can be used. I'm in contact with some of my
brethern at the local spam can factories . . . I'll
see what they have to say . . . Anyone got Tony B's
books? What does he say about fuel systems in low
wing airplanes?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> "let Joe do it"
> (I think that's what the ol' salts called the autopilot).
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
> < Show me where I'm wrong. >
> =================================
>
>
>Your Wrong!! Being an old salt I can tell you it's called "GEORGE"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>NiCads also eventually run out.
>
I'd forgotten to mention that . . . thanks for reminding me.
Ni-Cads have an inherent self discharge characteristic of
.5 to 1 percent per day. So even if you don't use them, they'll
run down in place. Alkaline cells have excellent shelf life
and will remain useable for years.
>Fortunately I had just enough power in my main aircraft battery to transmit
>a couple of times and run the transponder after coming rather close to 6-8
>C-141s??? (Big military transports flying REALLY low [non-MOA]). We made it
>safely to SC (CAE), but of all times I get vectors around lots of
>commercial traffic. Finally, after landing, during taxi, the batteries in
>the GPS also give out.
What form of active notification do you have for alternator failure?
Most pilots don't know the alternator has rolled over until after
the battery runs down. With timely, active notification, and some
judicious wiring of essential goodies to the battery, you should be
able to COUNT on continued flight to intended destination with
everything you need still working when you get there . . .
>The moral of the story (apologies to Bob for the somewhat Nuckolls-esque
>tone ;-) )
>1. Don't depend upon one thing to get you there if you can help it
> (Have backups/Plan B)
>2. If batteries are involved, ASSUME they *will* die somewhere in flight.
Or put fresh ones in before departure. My GPS runs 24 hours on
a fresh set if I don't use the backlighting. 6 hours if the light
is on all the time.
>3. Know what you plan to do when they do.
>
>By the way, the GPS is normally powered from the aircraft but I have had
>cases of the power contact not being made well and my running off batteries
>when I thought I was on aircraft power. [Garmin GPSmap 195] If not caught,
>I could have proceeded into a situation **thinking** I had (new/fresh)
>battery power when I didn't.
See my post elsewhere for RELIABLE panel mounted connection between
hand held goodies and the airplane's electrical systems. Cigar lighter
sockets were designed about 60 years ago for lighting cigars, not
powering GPS receivers.
>As we build these planes of our dreams, we must keep in mind ... stuff
>happens, be prepared, so we can all fly safe.
Bless you my son . . . you've got a 4.0 for this semester.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TESTPYLOT <TESTPYLOT(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid installation |
Don I would go ahead and close the wing up and install the servo just inside
the last rib toward the tip.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Navaid installation |
>I thought I would share how I am installing a Navaid servo in the wing.
>I am doing it through the inspection hole in the right wing but the
>procedure would apply to either. While it can certainly be done after the
>wing is closed it would be much easier if done before the bottom skin is
>riveted on. >Stan Blanton
Stan,
I think you forgot to mention that your an OBGYN so this is a piece of cake
for you. I'm sorry couldn't resist. It's late I better go to bed. Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE SOUTHERN
REGION AND TRAVEL IN MY RV-6. ANYONE NEEDING A DAR PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL
I CHARGE $275.00 PLUS GAS MONEY. >>
How much do you charge to turn your Caps Lock OFF?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
>On one 150 Aerobat there was a lever in a panel with a series of
>detentes (sp?) at 10, 20, and full IIRC. I guess (but haven't thought
>about it until now) that the lever and indicator are both connected to
>pots. A comparator compares the resistance between them, and when
>they're not equal generates 'up' or 'down' signals as required. This was
>a little flaky -- I had to wiggle the lever about a bit to get the first
>10 degrees of flap to happen. Not an ideal thing for a low-time pilot to
>discover on finals! Made me start a quick mental revision of flap-less
>landing technique.
The system you're talking about is a mechanical feedback servo
positioner I got to help design. The pilot's panel lever simply
moved a cam behind the panel to actuate a drive-up or drive down
Microswitch. The switches were on a carrier plate attached to
the flap system by a bowden (sp?) cable (like your ol' manual
choke control). As the flaps moved, the switches swing
on a pivot until they once again align with the notch in the
lever cam. Move the cam, close a switch. Flaps respond in the
appropriate direction to open the switch.
I was unhappy that they chose to run full motor current through
the microswitches without benefit of intevening relays. None the
less, I'm pleased to note that switch longevity isn't too bad.
Our trainers at Benton airport would need a set of switches about
every two years (300-500 hours). The mechanisms are purely mechanical
and do need some attention for slop or they will indeed get flakey.
A REAL Cessna mechanic can easily keep this system running well.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Experimental Video |
Hello listers:
I'm a young, fairly new attorney. My first love is aviation, but I can't find
a way to make a living being an airport bum (but I'll never stop trying). As
many of you might recall, I'm slowly building my RV-8. In fact, I'm about to
close up the right elevator. The wing kit is scattered all over my
house--sometimes it's good to be single...
The reason for this post is to test the waters and see if there would be any
interest in a "how-to" type video tape discussing the rules and regulations
surrounding experimentals--licensing, flying, n-numbers, etc. I'm thinking
that I could create a video and include a packet with forms, pertinent FAR's,
contact addresses, checklists, etc.
I don't claim to have the answers at the tip of my tongue, but if I learned
anything in law school (sometimes questionable, I'll admit), it was how to
find answers. I'm doing my best to nudge my way into being an "aviation
attorney," but specialization is something that takes time to develop. I can't
just appoint myself an expert. I would guess that the package would cost
somewhere in the neighborhood of $25.
I'm just testing the waters here... If I receive positive feedback, I'd guess
that it'd take me at least 3-6 months to get it put together. Please, please
folks, don't use this message as a springboard to tell us all what you think
of attorneys and/or the legal system. Anybody knows me at all knows that I'm
the last person who would do anything to harm this thing that brings me such
enjoyment--aviation.
Feel free to respond directly if you feel this is an inappropriate use of the
list.
Keep building!
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [waiting on a new left elevator horn--don't ask :-( ]
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WmSH <WmSH(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Carolina Area RV Builders |
My family and I will be in South Carolina for the holidays (Lancaster area),
and I would like to visit an RV project for a quick chat and look. I'm in the
process of collecting the required tools, and will soon purchase the -6 or -8
empennage kit (haven't decided yet).
I live in Belleville IL and will be in SC from 22-30 Dec. If there are any NC
or SC builders out there that wouldn't mind a visitor for a few minutes and
tons of questions, please let me know. Can contact me directly at
wmsh(at)aol.com
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)hfsmobility.com |
| Subject: | "Both" position on fuel sel |
I just had to add my two cents worth. The 1955 T-34B I fly fights a constant
battle with fuel splits. If a lesser pilot (certianly not me) was to allow
the plane to fly in a slight yaw for an hour or so the difference in the
fuel used in both tanks would be respectably noticeable. The old bird only
has an off/on fuel valve, and prefers to drink out of one tank. Yep, the
vents are open and everything has checked out several times. The problem
became apperant last year when an F-18 jock converted her into a glider and
landed on a side street . I'm convinced I want to controll which tank I'm
drinking from.
Eric Henson
Last Tank Rib
Oshkosh 2009, here I come.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bent / Curved VS608PP |
Don't worry about the slight bend, just lay it on a table and carefully bend
to near level, and go ahead and assemble it. The spar will pull it straight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
Just off the top of my head, it sounds like you might have the spars for the
elevators (which have the forward facing tab) mixed up with the spars for the
HS. Check that first.
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Video |
Rod,
I think it's an idea that could fly.
It seems kind of hit and miss gathering all of the information needed to
comply with all the rules & regs. If you can make it easy for people to get
this information, the would certainly pay $25.00, I think, especially if all
of the forms needed were included.
Hey, did you hear about the lawyer----naw, too easy:)
Bob
>Hello listers:
>
>I'm a young, fairly new attorney. My first love is aviation, but I can't find
>a way to make a living being an airport bum (but I'll never stop trying). As
>many of you might recall, I'm slowly building my RV-8. In fact, I'm about to
>close up the right elevator. The wing kit is scattered all over my
>house--sometimes it's good to be single...
>
>The reason for this post is to test the waters and see if there would be any
>interest in a "how-to" type video tape discussing the rules and regulations
>surrounding experimentals--licensing, flying, n-numbers, etc. I'm thinking
>that I could create a video and include a packet with forms, pertinent FAR's,
>contact addresses, checklists, etc.
>
>I don't claim to have the answers at the tip of my tongue, but if I learned
>anything in law school (sometimes questionable, I'll admit), it was how to
>find answers. I'm doing my best to nudge my way into being an "aviation
>attorney," but specialization is something that takes time to develop. I can't
>just appoint myself an expert. I would guess that the package would cost
>somewhere in the neighborhood of $25.
>
>I'm just testing the waters here... If I receive positive feedback, I'd guess
>that it'd take me at least 3-6 months to get it put together. Please, please
>folks, don't use this message as a springboard to tell us all what you think
>of attorneys and/or the legal system. Anybody knows me at all knows that I'm
>the last person who would do anything to harm this thing that brings me such
>enjoyment--aviation.
>
>Feel free to respond directly if you feel this is an inappropriate use of the
>list.
>
>Keep building!
>
>Rod Woodard
>RV-8, #80033 [waiting on a new left elevator horn--don't ask :-( ]
>Loveland, Colorado
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | build your own engine |
I will ask again, more precisely. I am NOT planning on building an engine.
I was curious as to why no one has taken a V-8 block and matched the
stroke and cam timing of a Lycoming to yield a similar torque and output at
2900rpms while gaining the benefits of mass produced parts, water cooling,
EFI, 8 cyl smoothness, no PSRU etc...? Would the auto parts not be strong
enough? Are the strokes too long to match with existing auto blocks? Why
can't A/C engines be mimicked with auto engines? I haven't found this
addressed directly and wondered what aspect I was missing.
kevin 6A 45 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
<< I have been told the electric
flaps are slow and require holding a switch until the desired position. >>
I timed the travel of the actuator awhile back and, if my recollection is
correct, it moved about 5 inches in 5 seconds to yield 40-45 degrees of flap
travel. That rate seems just about right to me. What else were you going to
do with your right hand that you couldn't allow it 5 seconds on the switch?
But if you must complicate things, I'd say that 3 notches of 15 degrees each
would be okay.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: build your own engine |
>
>I will ask again, more precisely. I am NOT planning on building an engine.
> I was curious as to why no one has taken a V-8 block and matched the
>stroke and cam timing of a Lycoming to yield a similar torque and output at
>2900rpms while gaining the benefits of mass produced parts, water cooling,
>EFI, 8 cyl smoothness, no PSRU etc...? Would the auto parts not be strong
>enough? Are the strokes too long to match with existing auto blocks? Why
>can't A/C engines be mimicked with auto engines? I haven't found this
>addressed directly and wondered what aspect I was missing.
> kevin 6A 45 hrs.
>
Kevin,
I will go out on a limb with my take on this issue. Aircraft engines are
configured the way they are because of the job they are asked to do. They
are being asked to put out as much horsepower as possible with an rpm limit
2700-2900 rpm (the max allowable rpm while keeping prop tips subsonic).
Horsepower is the ability to do a certain amount of work in a given amount
of time. The more work in a given amount of time, the more horsepower. The
way most engines make lots of horsepower is to run a high rpms in order to
do more work in the same amount of time (ie. more firing cycles per second,
more fuel turned into power per second), and then use some sort of
transmission to make this power usable by changing the speed to suit the
application. An airplane engine driving directly into a prop which limits
rpm has less chances to convert fuel into power per second. In order to
work around this limitation, aircraft engines use a large bore and a long
stroke. The large bore provides more piston surface area for a given amount
of cylinder pressure to "push" on. The long stroke provides more leverage
for this piston force to exert more "twist" on the crankshaft. These
combine to give good power at this low rpm. But, since bore and stroke are
combined to figure an engine's displacement, you end up with a huge engine
in a hurry.
If you created a V8 engine to operate in an aircraft, you would end up with
one of two things. Either you would have an average dispacement engine (say
350 cu/in) that had 8 smaller cylinders requiring more rpm to make good
power, or you would simply have a huge engine that put out lots of power,
was incredibly heavy and consumed fuel like the space shuttle!
I think a large part of the design of, say a Lyc or Cont, is to save weight.
It's easier to make an existing cylinder larger and displace more volume,
and thus produce more power, than it is to add another cylinder, another
crank throw, a cylinder to counter the cylinder you've just added, another
gear train to run it, etc, etc.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
Rudder
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Prado (Excell Data Corporation)" <v-jerryp(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Stay positive!-was Golf |
I purchased a completed tail from someone who insisted "it was sound". After
two inpectections from two EAA tech advisors who provided me with an
overwhelming list of 'do-overs' that made me take a hard look at used
c150s, I started hacking at the list. I began to gain confidence, I
proceeded to the next item on the list, and went on!
A few dings WILL happen. What will you have after three years of golf? A few
smaller numbers on a paper pad?
Jerry H. Prado
RV6A
>
> > I just tried to rivit the horizontal stabilizer and left some nasty
> dings and
> > dents learning to use a rivit gun. The question is can these be
> repaired or
> > should I go back to golf and give this up?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Wing root mounting of Gascolator |
After much head scratching, layout work, and talking also with Eustace
Bowhay, I have concluded that to mount the gascolator in the wing root
requires mounting the boost pump on the firewall. Of course the little
Facet pump we buy from Van's can not be mounted in the engine compartment
( too high of a temperature environment).
My question then is what pumps are out there that can be used as a boost
pump mounted on the firewall in the engine compartment? Aircraft Spruce
has an interupter style pump that they say is used on some Pipers without
antisiphon feature. That probably would be Ok. Any comments would be
appreciated.
Thank You,
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
Try this formula my flight instructor taught me way back:
((Airspeed in knots)/10) + 5 = Roll angle in degrees.
For most plane this is around 15 Degrees but for jets 60+ is common.
Works if you have a power failure.
> ----------
> From: KB2DU[SMTP:KB2DU(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 10:04
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: GYROS
>
>
> When I read that note about a TC I was glad he was not PIC for me in
> IMC and
> instructed to hold at an intersection. How does one with out a Turn
> Coor,
> determin a standard rate turn. Time & Heading
>
>
>
>
that prevent this happening to permit various cables
and ducts to connect to the rotor. It is however possible to use
sliprings to free the rotor but as these are bulky this results in a
much larger gyro assembly. Most older jet fighters were fitted with
these.
Note. Laser gyros, by their design, are non tumbling as they are
rate gyros fitted with an integrating computer. Inertial systems based
on accelerometers have the same advantage.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gibson Allan <Allan.Gibson(at)wmc.com.au> |
Did you have it baked after chroming?
Hydrogen imbrittlement is no joke and in something like a roll bar you
may only find out when you need it.
(Nickel plating doesn't start cracks like chrome does either)
> ----------
> From: MAlexan533[SMTP:MAlexan533(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 12:27
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 Rollbar
>
>
> I have an RV-4 with a rounded rollbar. The builder took it to a
> welding shop
> and had it altered. When I bought the plane I took it and had it
> chromed. What
> a difference this makes in the looks of the plane, both in and out!
> Cost about
> 50.00 for chroming. Also since the rollbar winds up being the grab
> handle for
> getting in and out, chroming is much more durable.
> Von Alexander
> N107RV (RV-4)
> MAlexan533(at)aol.com
> RV-8 tail almost done, wings on the way
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
>
> Meanwhile, anyone have the phone # for Mr.Landoll?
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Bill Boyd
>
Mark Landoll Home: 405-685-0239 Shop: 405-392-3847
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
Hi Mike,
Saw you post concerning FAA and inspections. Can relate to your views
as I finally retrieved my Airworthiness application package from FAA after 2
months of inaction. All the folks were friendly and mostly helpful, but I
believe three items contributed to the inaction in my case.
1. The FAA folks (in the local FSO) are in most cases truly busy and
appear to feel (probably rightly so) that commercial/business operations
take priority over "hobbies".
2. A number are apparently unfamiliar and therefore uncomfortable
inspecting homebuilts as the variations are many and "standards" are
somewhat less standard.
3. In my case, there was a clear degree of discomfort with inspecting my
RV-6 since it is powered with a Mazda Rotary engine. One of the local FAA
inspectors is quite responsive in inspecting local homebuilts, but felt
that with my power plant he would prefer someone (an engineer) from their
the FAA Maintenance Division to do the inspection. Unfortunately, that
office is in PA and while they stated they were willing, I was pretty far
down their priority list and it would be several months before they could
work their way down to me. At no time was anyone "unfriendly", I just did
not want to wait for them to get to me.
So while not trying to defend these folks, I can understand their
position. Actually, paying a DAR who is familiar with homebuilts and RV-6s
in particular, is preferable to me than getting a begrudging, uncomfortable,
FAA inspector who is unfamiliar with the "homebuilt" area. So, I have
decided to go with a DAR.
Ed
----------
From: michael d hilger
Subject: Re: RV-List: DAR SERVICE
Date: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 11:43PM
writes:
>
>EDWARD HASCH JR wrote:
>
>>
>> I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE
>SOUTHERN... Come on FAA, either do the inspections yourselves or authorize
more good, knowledgeable DAR's.
Mike Hilger
RV-6 N207AM
Finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance question |
I have a friend that is building an RV-6A. He was considering putting a
Chevy engine in it. (Please don't start the engine thread again, this
is just a simple question). He says he was told by Avemco that they
will not insure a homebuilt with a non-certificated engine installation.
So my question is, of those of you who are building or better yet flying
RVs with auto engines, who is your insurance provider?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Network and System Administrator
Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
Phone: 408-743-2224
Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776
Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Orndorff G <OrndorffG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Experimental Video |
Rod,
I have such a video on certification and operation of homebuild aircraft cost
$10.50..
..George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance question |
That is interesting, in that I have insurance with AVEMCO on an RV-6A with a
Mazda 13B rotary engine in it. And Yes, I did declare the engine in my
application.
Ed
----------
From: VanArtsdalen, Scott
Subject: RV-List: Insurance question
Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 8:30AM
I have a friend that is building an RV-6A. He was considering putting a
Chevy engine in it. (Please don't start the engine thread again, this
is just a simple question). He says he was told by Avemco that they
will not insure a homebuilt with a non-certificated engine installation.
So my question is, of those of you who are building or better yet flying
RVs with auto engines, who is your insurance provider?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Network and System Administrator
Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
Phone: 408-743-2224
Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776
Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HinkleyC(at)fca.gov |
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
We finally get a DAR to advertise his availability on the RV-List and you
feel compelled to take a cheep shot at him. I hope your proud of yourself.
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
CHink11769 @ aol.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
<< I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE SOUTHERN
REGION AND TRAVEL IN MY RV-6. ANYONE NEEDING A DAR PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL
I CHARGE $275.00 PLUS GAS MONEY. >>
How much do you charge to turn your Caps Lock OFF?
-GV
CHink11769 @ aol.com (Home 703-450-6321)
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov (Work 703-883-4091)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance question |
Forgot to mention, that a condition of my insurance for my RV-6A with Mazda
engine is:
1. I get three Technical Consultor inspections before flight
2. I participate in Flight Consultor program
3. I get minimun of 2 hours flight time in someones RV-6 before I make my
first flight in mine
Ed
----------
From: VanArtsdalen, Scott
Subject: RV-List: Insurance question
Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 8:30AM
I have a friend that is building an RV-6A. He was considering putting a
Chevy engine in it. (Please don't start the engine thread again, this
is just a simple question). He says he was told by Avemco that they
will not insure a homebuilt with a non-certificated engine installation.
So my question is, of those of you who are building or better yet flying
RVs with auto engines, who is your insurance provider?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Network and System Administrator
Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
Phone: 408-743-2224
Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776
Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
<< Has anybody ever put their battery behind the seat or in the
luggage compartment? If so, how did you run your battery
cables?
Gary Harvell
wings >>
Gary:
The Rocket battery (Concorde RG-25XC) is located in the baggage area, just fwd
of the #8 blkhd. We mount the master sol as close as possible the the batt,
usually near the elev bellcrank. We run #4 cable under the floor, and use a
bulkhead connector at the firewall. The starter sol mounts under the floor,
aft of the spar, AWAY from the (possibly leaking) fuel boost pump and selector
valve. Mount the starter sol horizontal, so any strong "G" won't energize it.
Visualize that first test flight.....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
Steve,
Thanks for the prompt reply and the information on re-pitching a wood prop.
It appears that I will not be able to use this prop on the RV-6.
Thanks,
Bob
---
"The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's
and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA."
dnesday, December 17, 1997 6:07 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: Insurance question
That is interesting, in that I have insurance with AVEMCO on an
RV-6A with a
Mazda 13B rotary engine in it. And Yes, I did declare the
engine in my
application.
Ed
----------
From: VanArtsdalen, Scott
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RV-List: Insurance question
Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 8:30AM
I have a friend that is building an RV-6A. He was considering
putting a
Chevy engine in it. (Please don't start the engine thread
again, this
is just a simple question). He says he was told by Avemco that
they
will not insure a homebuilt with a non-certificated engine
installation.
So my question is, of those of you who are building or better
yet flying
RVs with auto engines, who is your insurance provider?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Network and System Administrator
Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
Phone: 408-743-2224
Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776
Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTED AIR <BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance question |
Scot, we at Belted Air have been insured by Avemco for the past 16 yrs. using
auto engines. In fact our rates are less per year than our chevy truck for 6
months by State Farm with multiple vehicles. If you call(702) 384-8006 I can
give you the infol
Jess
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
This concerns US listers only - international brethren may ignore with impunity.
I have some comments on this DAR issue.
We (the homebuilt) community need to recognize the facts as far as these
inspections are going and realize a good deal when we see it. In a perfect
world the government would provide the inspections at no additional charge
seeing as they mandated them in the first place. But this is not a perfect
world. No matter what your political outlook we are in a era where
government "services" are being curtailed as the budget deficit is being
"trimmed". Whether you believe it WILL actually be trimmed is not relevant.
Perception is reality in this case. The FAA has to struggle with reduced
money and people at the same time coming under increased pressure to prevent
things like the Value jet crash. If you asked the man on the street (or
congressman on the street): "Would you rather the FAA concentrate on
inspecting the airlines or providing inspections to people that want to
build their own planes?" what do you think the answer would be?
We are lucky the FAA even has a DAR program. I spent somewhere around 30
grand building my VFR, used engine RV-4. While it would have been nice
having the FAA bless it for free, the $300 I spent for an inspection (one
time never have to do it again) is one of the best bargain in the universe.
If we attack the program or complain too much we might just end up with NO
DAR program or NO Experimental category. Yes there should be more DARs.
But where are they going to come from? Maybe we all need to get our A&Ps
and apply for certification. Changes are inevitable in this changing
Federal climate. We have a good deal - not a prefect deal - let's kill the
best program on earth.
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
Agree with You Curtis,
In fact, I contacted Ed Hasch and will probably engage his services as
he is an EAAer and very familiar with the RV-6 (he flys one). Quite helpful
and willing to come here to do inspection at a reasonable cost. Wish more
DARs willing to inspect homebuilts would get their card on the RV-List.
Ed
----------
From: HinkleyC
Subject: Re: RV-List: DAR SERVICE
Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 9:35AM
* * * * The views expressed in this EMail are my own and do not represent
the policy or position * * * *
* * * * of the Farm Credit Administration. * * * *
We finally get a DAR to advertise his availability on the RV-List and you
feel compelled to take a cheep shot at him. I hope your proud of yourself.
Curtis Hinkley
RV-8 N815RV reserved
CHink11769 @ aol.com
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov
<< I AM A DAR ATTACHED TO THE NASHVILLE FSDO. I OPERATE IN THE SOUTHERN
REGION AND TRAVEL IN MY RV-6. ANYONE NEEDING A DAR PLEASE GIVE ME A CALL
I CHARGE $275.00 PLUS GAS MONEY. >>
How much do you charge to turn your Caps Lock OFF?
-GV
CHink11769 @ aol.com (Home 703-450-6321)
hinkleyc(at)fca.gov (Work 703-883-4091)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
When I play golf I'm always asking whether I should give it up and go back
to building another RV - have faith. I have actually lowered my handicap
(but I'm too embarrassed to tell you what it is) so you can lower your "ding
per rivet driven" index.
It is worth it...
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<19971217.085458.13430.0.bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com>
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Hi Bob,
In my airplane, I wired the GPS power plug directly into the electrical
system to a circuit that was already fused. If you have a spare fuse ,
you can use that.
Regards,
Bill Davis N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV6 Electric Flap Control. |
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Hi Cameron,
Don't know why you would want to complicate and make heavy a wonderfully
simple electric flap system. As is, it requires no limit switches, a
simple DPDT switch controls everything. It is plenty fast and a quick
glance outside will tell you what position the flaps are in. The KISS
principle is best.
Regards ,
Bill Davis, N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unusual attitudes / IFR Flight |
44-47,51-53,55,57-59,62-63,65-67,71-81
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
writes:
>
>Fellow Listers:
>
*** SNIP ***
>
>1. RV aircraft are not the best instrument platforms. They are fast,
>sensitive on the ailerons, and demand considerably more attention than a
>strut-braced Cessna. They are not as inherently stable.
Doug, this is true when compared to other aircraft, but when it's the
ONLY aircraft that one flies IFR, relatively speaking, how sensitive is
it? I've flown nother else but an RV-6 in IFR conditions. It does demand
that the pilot be more than the FAA's definition of current.
>2. My student has been yanking and banking his -6 for 500 plus hours
VFR.
>RVs lend themselves to this type of flying (it's fun!!). But the
transition
>to the gentle touch of instrument flying has been a challenge for him.
>Finger tip pressures only! A spiral dive and loss of altitude can
easilyoccur.
Agree.... You will be teaching your student the finer points of
flying.....
>3. I truly feel that to be a practical IFR airplane one needs a
>wing-leveler (the -6 in question does have a Nav Aid unit installed).
An RV
>would be a handful single-pilot IFR without one.
This has already been debated on the list, with opinions hitting both
limits. I personally came to the same conclusion after triing to take an
ammended clearance in the air and figuring out on the charts where it was
taking me. When the vertigo set in, it was back to the gages with a
request to ATC for some vectors to fly while I got things sorted out
again. The wing leveler solves this problem...
>4. Usually I don't begin an initial student with partial panel work,
but in
>this case I think it will prove very beneficial when we get the full
panel
>operational. It demands developing a good instrument scan and I can see
>this happening alread in just the last severals hours.
It also means that the IFR pilot be more proficent in the RV. I find
that a couple of hours per month keep s the scan up and the jerkyness out
of the controls... (I gage the level of my abilities on how smooth I fly
my RV-6A while under the hood or in actual conditions.)
>5. The -6 is truly a high performance airplane. IFR flight will demand
>much more discipline and workload than a "standard" instrument trainer.
It
>may take longer to obtain an instrument rating in a RV, but my student
has
>the advantage of being very familiar with the aircraft.
I was able to get the rating in 6 months, which included some
instrument changes and an ADF installation. It just means flying more
often.....
>I've given lots of instrument training over the years, but never in an
RV.
>It will be an education for both of us.
Doug, it might be benifitial to the others on the List if you could
pass on the RPM/MP numbers for the various approach phases in the RV-6.
This could give other instructors a potential start on the IFR
instruction n this type of aircraft.....
>Doug Weiler, pres, MN Wing, CFIAI, ATP
>
>dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Down boy, it's only humor.
Gary's a real nice guy, that just happens to have a snappy sense of humor.
And... To those of you that are going to launch a barrage of, "...doesn't
belong on the list." comments, think about this;
CAPS are commonly accepted as SHOUTING. If somebody came into your workshop
and attempted to carry on a conversation at the top of his lungs, what would
you think? What would you say? Were all friends here...Right?
And... to Gary, If you make one more crack about my speeling, I'm going to
tell the entire list about that discusting weed-patch you call a back yard.
Ba-dum-pum
Chris
>
> We finally get a DAR to advertise his availability on the RV-List and you
> feel compelled to take a cheep shot at him. I hope your proud of yourself.
>
> Curtis Hinkley
>
>> How much do you charge to turn your Caps Lock OFF?
>>
>> -GV
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ibid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: build your own engine |
On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, kevin lane wrote:
>
> I will ask again, more precisely. I am NOT planning on building an engine.
> I was curious as to why no one has taken a V-8 block and matched the
> stroke and cam timing of a Lycoming to yield a similar torque and output at
> 2900rpms while gaining the benefits of mass produced parts, water cooling,
> EFI, 8 cyl smoothness, no PSRU etc...? Would the auto parts not be strong
> enough? Are the strokes too long to match with existing auto blocks? Why
> can't A/C engines be mimicked with auto engines? I haven't found this
> addressed directly and wondered what aspect I was missing.
> kevin 6A 45 hrs.
Kevin,
It's more than just stroke and cam timing. The bores (diameter of the
cylinder) in the Lycoming/Continental are MUCH larger than a typical
automotive V-8.
For example, a "typical" 350CI, ~250HP auto V-8 engines has a bore right
around 4" and a stroke of 3.5". The 541CI Lycoming O-540, a comparable
engine in terms of horsepower (available from 235HP to 300HP), has a bore
of 5.125" and a stroke of 4.375".
Each V-8 cylinder thus displaces 44 cubic inches. Each Lycoming V-6
cylinder displaces 90 cubic inches, or more than twice with less than an
inch more of stroke.
Even to get the V-8 to equal the Lycoming in displacement (541CI), each V-8
cylinder would need to displace 68CI. If you wanted to do that, without
enlarging the bore, you would need to increase the V-8's stroke from
3.5" to 5.4", or by nearly two inches. Do you have that kind of room if
you stay with "mass produced parts?" If so, is the resultant piston
velocity at, say, 2700 RPM too fast?
Finally, what's the weight like?
Again, it's all a question of design. Remember that:
power = frequency (RPM) x pressure (torque)
Depending on what your design objectives are, you can get your power either
by increasing RPM or by increasing torque. Either choice, however, defines
the principle characteristic of the engine. Auto engines, for very good
reasons, get their power by increasing frequency and holding pressure
low. Aircraft engines, for equally good reasons, get power by holding
frequency low and pressure high.
greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N95MF <N95MF(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 question. |
Perhaps it my message, Scott. I thought maybe you were tired of stupid
questions. I asked you about mounting the Navaid Devices in the RV-8. I have
already closed my wings, so in the belly is where I would like to put it. It
seems it could be attached to the main push/pull tube going out to one of the
ailerons. I was thinking of maybe welding something on the push/pull tube to
attach the rod end bearing. Or maybe attach it to the big torque tube going
between the two sticks? What do you think? My other question had to do with
what we can continue doing without having the plane on the gear (waiting for
pieces from your employers). We are now mounting the tail surfaces. I don't
think I want to set the wings until it is on the gear. So we are thinking of
building up the seats, and maybe then the instrument panel. My questions is:
What can we work on until the gear stuff arrives. I am a first time builder
scared of getting out of sequence. Thanks for your advice. Mark Goldberg,
Austin, TX #80087
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator options |
In a message dated 12/16/97 10:01:05 PM, you wrote:
>anyone have the phone # for Mr.Landoll?
Phone no is MARK LANDOLL 405-392-3847 STARTERS, DAMPERS, ALTERNATORS
This from the yellr pages. All should get it!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort) |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
I'm having trouble visualizing the physics
how would one tank go dry before the other (asside from cross flow
> due to wings-not-level flight)? In level flight, pressure at the
> tee would be a function of head height of the fuel on each side
> making the fuller tank feed faster than the lower one if indeed
> flow doesn't reverse and move toward the lower level tank.
> Al, can you shed some light on the physics of this problem?
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
Bob: I have not worked on the crossflow problem enough to explain it.
I can really only describe what I observed. My fuel system differs from
standard in three ways. I have a selector from a large single engine
Cessna. It includes a U-jointed extension for the handle which enabled
mounting the valve in about the stock location but level with the tank
outlets. Since I did not want pressure fuel in the cockpit I put the
Facet pump on the firewall (forward side) piped to pump parallel with
the engine driven pump to the carb. Fuel lines were curved to prevent
them pulling out of the fittings but everything was kept in the same
plane. The left tank has a flop tube. That tank outlet is about level
with the regular outlet but is in the nose of the inboard rib per plans.
The associated pretzel pipe that evades the tank to fuselage attach
fitting leads back and enters the fuselage where the regular supply line
would. When I did fuel flow tests (nose high) the electric pump
delivered about 10% more fuel from the right tank than it did from the
left (~32gph vs. ~29gph). The tank vents are located according to plans
with 1/4" aluminum pitots. They are as near to identical as I could
make them.
I tried the both position on a cross country flight when both tanks had
ullage, the right being down a bit more than the left. Estimate the
unfilled volume the the left tank to be about 3 gallons. Level flight
cruise, as well coordinated as I could do it. Probably not perfect.
The "both" position was selected and as the flight progressed after a
few minutes the right fuel gauge seemed to go down more rapidly than
usual and in about 20 minutes fuel was observed streaming back from the
left wing filler cap. Some fuel was going overboard at the trailing
edge and some was flowing inboard at the flap gap. The flap hinge line
is sealed but the ends are not sealed. At this point the selector was
moved to the Left tank and within a couple of minutes the flow across
the wing stopped. I have no way to know if fuel exited via the left
tank vent but I doubt if it did.
There are no firm conclusions here but there are some thoughts:
1) The fuel system is not mechanically symmetrical.
2) We don't know that the local pressures at the vent pitots are the
same.
3) The aircraft may have been slightly uncoordinated although I did make
an effort to avoid that.
4) The maximum head pressure differential that could exist in the system
(one tank empty, the other full) is about 7"wc. That condition was not
present in the test. The test differential was probably in the order of
1.5"wc. This differential should have opposed the actual flow.
One could speculate that a common vent, symmetrical fuel system and
perfectly coordinated flight would enable pumping from both tanks
successfully. One could experiment with systems and find out. The next
question is, why would one want to? Flying on both tanks leaves the
pilot with poor information as to the fuel condition in both tanks.
This might not be so bad in cruise flight but could lead to trouble
when maneuvering for landing. If drawdown was similar but not identical
and one line unported causing engine shutdown, which tank would you
switch to for restart? How much time would you have to decide? The
history of the fuel system problems with the Aerostar supports the
notion that one plays with this stuff at his peril. For myself, I will
not use the both position on my fuel selector.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Free Fuel Primer |
I have a Fuel Primer, Piper Cherokee type, that I can't use. Removed from service
and it's your free, well sort of,...just make a reasonable donation to Matts
RV-list in our names, send me your mailing info and I mail it out to you.
I'll even send it to you first for inspection, trusting in good faith you'll
follow through with this offer. Merry Christmas and happy flying! Gary RV-6
20038 finishing B4 2000! Respond off the list at: kozinski(at)symbol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>> "let Joe do it"
>> (I think that's what the ol' salts called the autopilot).
>>
>> Bob . . .
>> AeroElectric Connection
>>
>> ////
>> (o o)
>> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
>> < Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
>> < Show me where I'm wrong. >
>> =================================
>>
>>
>>Your Wrong!! Being an old salt I can tell you it's called "GEORGE"
Thank you! . . . I read about the expression in a book years back
and was having trouble dredging up the "correct" info from the
gray matter. Hmmmm . . . I'm sure "George" was a fully capable,
three-axis autopilot, would a wing-leveler with tracking capabilites
be a Georgette?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electronic Flap Controls |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers,
The question of some sort of electronic microprocessor based flap
control system was raised this week. Since I have extensive experience
with embedded processors of this type I thought that I might respond.
Lets assume (I know, lots of trouble...) that the system consisted of a
panel switch whose appearance was similar to the Cessna flap control, and
LED's were used to indicate the actual flap position (based upon micro
switches on the mechanical actuator), with a microprocessor controlling
and monitoring everything (ie, flap position, LED indicators, Flap motor
ON/OFF control, and the necessary fail safe guards, including audible
warnings tied into your audio panel). The marketed price for such a kit,
including switches, electronic parts, and wiring would probably cost in
the $100-$150 range. How many of you would be interested at this
cost?????
With the complexity of such a system, and it's added risk of failure
(everything fails sometime...), why not just use the KISS approach. I
currently have electric flaps in my RV-6A with marks on the ailerons to
indicate position. It works just fine........
I am, however, an electronics nut that likes gadgets, so if anybody
IS interested in talking about the possibilities of cockpit automation
through the use of embedded processors, email me directly.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Free Fuel Primer |
My Cherokee just happens to need a new primer. What's "reasonable"?
BTW, does this count as another "primer" post? Another volly in the
primer wars?
Chris
>
>
> I have a Fuel Primer, Piper Cherokee type, that I can't use. Removed from service
and it's your free, well sort of,...just make a reasonable donation to Matts
RV-list in our names, send me your mailing info and I mail it out to you.
I'll even send it to you first for inspection, trusting in good faith you'll
follow through with this offer. Merry Christmas and happy flying! Gary
RV-6 20038 finishing B4 2000! Respond off the list at: kozinski(at)symbol.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: build your own engine |
>If you created a V8 engine to operate in an aircraft, you would end up with
>one of two things. Either you would have an average dispacement engine (say
>350 cu/in) that had 8 smaller cylinders requiring more rpm to make good
>power, or you would simply have a huge engine that put out lots of power,
>was incredibly heavy and consumed fuel like the space shuttle!
>
>I think a large part of the design of, say a Lyc or Cont, is to save weight.
>It's easier to make an existing cylinder larger and displace more volume,
>and thus produce more power, than it is to add another cylinder, another
>crank throw, a cylinder to counter the cylinder you've just added, another
>gear train to run it, etc, etc.
>
>Jon Elford
We *HAD* V-8s back in the "Golden Days" of Aviation. They were called OX-5s.
90 HP at obscenely low RPMs (and incredibly short TBOs!). Weighed like
boat anchors and had exposed valve actuators which needed frequent hand
oiling.
With today's materials it would be likely that an OX-5 "revisited" would be
workable. Aluminum block and other light weight components should help
shave some of the weight off the old girl. (490# if I remember correctly.)
Electronic ignition and modern fuel metering plus enclosed valve train
would all be big improvements.
Would anyone make this engine and sell it for less than Lycosaurus? Very
doubtful. Would even one piece be production automotive based? Again
unlikely.
If one wants an automotive V-8 with direct drive in a homebuilt (RV?), then
the Wittman conversion of the GM AL block is the most thoroughly proven
conversion out there. I've seen those engines available for $300 in
junkyards. (Granted that the originals were produced 30+ years ago, but
ROVER still uses the GM tooling in its vehicles today. For those who've
never seen one, Steve Wittman inverted the V-8 (crankshaft at the "top" of
the engine) and attached aircraft carburetor to intake manifold on the
bottom. The prop flange and extention shaft are attached to the flywheel
end on the engine, and the waterpump and "front pulley" end of the engine
is at the firewall. Steve turned his up to 3500 RPM (with a shorter prop)
and seemed to get about 150 HP by comparison with the lycoming powered
version of his Tailwind airplanes.
Shirl Dickey of E-Racer fame built several of these engines and used them
in his Rutan derivative "E-Racer". Shirl installed longer throw cranks in
his increasing the displacement to 300+ cu in. (and more torque).
Certainly there is room for discussion about an AL block Buick/Rover V-8
that is already flying in several homebuilts being adaptable to RVs.
We have one of these conversions in my local EAA chapter. I was called on
to assist in setting the timing and cranking the engine for the first time.
(My combined automotive and AC mechanic background made me the "expert"
). It was a really neat sound to have 8 short open exhausts
barking on an airplane. It would be a great sound to have rumbling out of
the cowl of an RV type as one taxiied to the fuel pumps. No doubt it would
empty the FBO lounge as everyone came out to see what the heck was making
that very NON Lyconental sound.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< We finally get a DAR to advertise his availability on the RV-List and you
feel compelled to take a cheep (sic) shot at him. I hope your (sic) proud of
yourself. >>
I'm proud that I have a sense of humor. Has yours passed TBO? ;^)
I didn't realize any of us were waiting for a DAR on the list. But now I
stand corrected.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bs(at)cbtek.com (Bill Shaw) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
Steve-
I'm sorry this is not strictly to the subject here(i.e. not RV pertinent),
but perhaps you can answer a question for me: I am currently flying an
Arrow(T-tail) and the manual says that the manuevering speed at max gross
wt(2750 lbs) is 121K, but at 1863 lbs it is reduced to 96K? I reasoned
that, like you, that a lower weight would mean lower stresses, but their
opinion seems to fly in the face of that. I realize you cannot speak for
Piper Aircraft, but I thought you might have an opinion or some knowledge
that I don't. TIA.
Bill Shaw, Lurker
RV-List message posted by: Steve Barnard
The key issue here and the most important is the maneuvering speed of the
aircraft. This is where you can apply full and intentional use of control
surfaces to there full extent without damaging the aircraft. This is the
speed you should obtain when flying thru turbulent air. This is the most,
I repeat the most damaging load the airplane will see. There is higher
loads placed on the airplane here, even higher than VNE or maximum dive
speed. The wings linear load is greatest at maneuvering speed.
If one uses a higher gross weight consider lowering your maneuvering speed
accordingly to prevent damage to the airplane in turbulence.
References for the above are Analysis & Design of Flight Vehicles
Structures by Bruhn and Modern Aircraft design by Martin Hollman.
Respectfully,
Steve Barnard
Barnard Aircraft Components
RV-6A N157ST 1000 hrs flying
steve(at)barnardaircraft.com
http://www.barnardaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unusual attitudes / IFR Flight |
SNIP....
> Doug, it might be benifitial to the others on the List if you could
>pass on the RPM/MP numbers for the various approach phases in the RV-6.
>This could give other instructors a potential start on the IFR
>instruction n this type of aircraft.....
>
>>Doug Weiler, pres, MN Wing, CFIAI, ATP
>>
>>dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
>
>
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
>wstucklen1(at)juno.com
Fred and others:
We haven't gotten very deep into the training phase yet, but when I do have
some definitive numbers I will post them. This -6 is equipped with a fixed
pitch wood prop (I forget the pitch). For our initial partial panel work,
we have been flying straight and level at 2100 rpm which gives 140 mph IAS
(we've slowed things down here in the beginning). Gentle 500 fpm climbs
require an additional 200 rpm (at the same speed). A 500 fpm descent
requires a reduction of 200 rpm.
My perspective in flying the -6 IFR comes from lots of time in high wing
Cessnas and also the 727 I fly for a living. My student does a much better
job at flying the -6 than I do so I hope to provide the basic instrument
guidance. He is a very competent pilot who I'm sure will do well.
Doug Weiler, MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <r.acker(at)thegrid.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
> From: Bill Shaw <bs(at)cbtek.com>
>
> Arrow(T-tail) and the manual says that the manuevering speed at max gross
> wt(2750 lbs) is 121K, but at 1863 lbs it is reduced to 96K? I reasoned
> that, like you, that a lower weight would mean lower stresses, but their
> opinion seems to fly in the face of that.
Bill,
Don't mean to step in on your question to Steve...please see my post
regarding Va (manuevering speed). Rest assured your Piper manual is
correct.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< And... to Gary, If you make one more crack about my speeling (sic) , I'm
going to
tell the entire list about that discusting (sicker) weed-patch you call a
back yard. >>
Is that my backyard? Damn, I thought it was county property. Oh well, I'll
just fire up the weed wacker in Spring as I always do. After all, I'm always
at the hangar. Why do I need a backyard?
I know I was a bad boy, but I'm trying to stop, honest.
Cheers,
-GV
e installation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: build your own engine |
>
> I was curious as to why no one has taken a V-8 block and matched the
>stroke and cam timing of a Lycoming to yield a similar torque and output at
>2900rpms while gaining the benefits of mass produced parts, water cooling,
>EFI, 8 cyl smoothness, no PSRU etc...?
> kevin 6A 45 hrs.
Kevin,
It could be done, but... In order to keep the weight down you would need to
use all aftermarket (racing )parts, aluminum block, heads, etc... Costs for
all the high perf stuff required would rival the cost of a Lyc easily.
A local RV-4 builder here, Bruce Crower, who used to own/run Crower Cams, a
well known aftermarket parts source did just that. Built an all aluminum
400cubic inch Chevy which he planned to derate to run direct drive at
2800rpm. The crank centerline made it necessary to install the engine
inverted and dry sump the oil system. After repeated tries at getting the
lubrication system to work, he conceded failure, mounted the engine right
side up and installed a PSRU of his own design/manufacture. Keep in mind,
this is a retired millionaire with a lifetime of experience in racing engine
construction including racing stock block based Indy cars.
This is probably too oversimplified, and I will probably get flamed for it
but the typical aircraft engine is optimized to produce its power at these
relatively low rpms by virtue of its bore, stroke, and the fact that its
large displacement (320 or 360 cubic inches)is distributed over just 4
cylinders. The most obvious comparison of displacement distribution that I
can think of, was the racing motorcycles of the early 60's. These were
typically 2 cylinder bikes of US or european manufacture. Maximum
displacement was determined by rules. When the Japanese entered this arena
they realized that the way to out perform the competition was to increase
rpm since horsepower is directly related to rpm. In order to reliably
increase rpm they needed to increase the number of cylinders to reduce the
reciprocating mass of a given piston/rod combo. They were soon building,
testing, and racing 6 and even 8 cylinder 250/350 cubic centimeter
displacement bikes that had stratospheric redlines, incredible (and very
peaky) horsepower, and virtually no low rpm torque at all.
Bottom line IMO is if somebody wanted to build a liquid cooled direct drive
engine that is optimized for aircraft use, it needs to be designed from the
ground up with that application in mind.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (wings done, saving for fuse)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TPhilpin <TPhilpin(at)aol.com> |
<< > A most likely scenairo. The drawback is that it forces me into the two
>alternator scenario ( no plan for vaccum system ) and I am concerned about
>the weight.
You're taking a vacuum pump out along with all the plumbing. Assuming
weight deltas for the gyros are a wash, then you're still way ahead
on weight reduction by adding in the SD-8 alternator. Besides,
even if the SD-8 were a tad heavier, I'd just as soon shed the pounds
of my buns than give up the second power source.
>>
Another consideration for the dual alternator solution is to provide a backup
(in addition to a battery) to your ability to communicate and navigate with
your electrical equipment, something a backup vacuum system won't help you
with.....
My two cents.....
Tony Philpin
RV - 8 in CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Thank you! . . . I read about the expression in a book years back
> and was having trouble dredging up the "correct" info from the
> gray matter. Hmmmm . . . I'm sure "George" was a fully capable,
> three-axis autopilot, would a wing-leveler with tracking capabilites
> be a Georgette?
No, an autopilot mounted in the co-pilot's position would be a
Georgette. Furthermore, it would not actually be directly connected to
the controls; rather, it would indicate to you what inputs to make and
when.
My apologies in advance to the ladies out there; I'm sure there are
annoying male backseat drivers - in fact, my Dad was one. But the
traditional humor form led me down this dark path; it won't happen
again. :)
To finish the simile, a wing-leveler with tracking capabilities would be
a George Jr., or Junior for short. I remember maintaining directional
control of the family pickup on long trips, while Dad poured his coffee
from the thermos. If you don't use children for similar, perhaps you
could call it a 'knee' instead of a Junior.
All in the Spirit of Chritmas Whimsy (the one that didn't visit
Scrooge). Have a happy holiday and write me at the sanatorium when it's
over...
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
That time and heading stuff works great, except when you are on a
no-gyro ASR or PAR approach.
What do you do when the controller tells you to
"make half-standard rate turns, do not acknowledge further
transmissions"
"Begin turn"
You have the jet>
-----Original Message-----
From: KB2DU [SMTP:KB2DU(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 1997 6:05 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: GYROS
When I read that note about a TC I was glad he was not PIC for
me in IMC and
instructed to hold at an intersection. How does one with out a
Turn Coor,
determin a standard rate turn. Time & Heading
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <AndersonE(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
Hi Bill,
Sorry to butt in when e mail was not addressed to me, but had same
problem. Intuitively, it would seem that higher weight aircraft would place
more stress on wings with the application of an abrupt control movement than
a lighter weight plane,or least it seemed that way to me. Also, not clear
to me what physical factor is the crucial one. It would seem that the G
limits permissible would vary inversely proportional to weight.
The way it was explained to me was using the F=M*A (Force = Mass *
acceleration). Transforming the equation A=F/M supposedly shows that if the
M (mass) increases then F can be increased and still maintain the "A"
(Acceleration - i.e "G" load) at a constant value such as 6.5Gs. Then with
higher "M", "F" can be higher without the limits set by "A" being exceeded.
I think this implies that "F" which is proportional to airspeed can be
increased. Personally, I wonder if 6.5G is the real limit or the "F" force
generated at 130 MPH with 6.5G acceleration is the real forcing limit.
Another "simpler" explanation is that with higher weight the wing stalls at
higher airspeed which means that it will stall out and relieves the load on
the wing before it breaks.
Regards
Ed
----------
From: Bill Shaw
Subject: Re: Fwd: RV-List: RV-8 Gross wt q's
Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 11:59AM
Steve Barnard
Barnard Aircraft Components
RV-6A N157ST 1000 hrs flying
steve(at)barnardaircraft.com
http://www.barnardaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bs(at)cbtek.com (Bill Shaw) |
| Subject: | Re: solar battery chargers |
RV-List message posted by: bob.char.reeves(at)juno.com (Robert L Reeves)
On the subject of using cigarette lighter sockets, has anyone found a
easy way to keep a plug in when using it for things like a GPS? I've
tied mine in with a piece of string on occations, but there has to be a
better way.
Bob Reeves
Bob -
I've had the same problem with my mobile ham radios. My solution was to
wrap a piece of Scotch Magic Mending tape around the lighter plug, being
careful not to cover any metal contacts. It worked great for me. It's
easily replaceable and the cost is nil. Good Luck ! Hope this helps.
Bill Shaw
N2EKR
RV6 wannabee
December 14, 1997 - December 17, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-dw