RV-Archive.digest.vol-dy
December 21, 1997 - December 30, 1997
> RV-8, I'm contemplating purchasing the following (found at
> http://www.browntool.com/rivetkits.htm):
Just checked out the link and have these points to offer.
1) Get a 2x gun, all rivets in and RV (sans spar rivets) can be driven quite well
with a 2x. The gun is smaller and will fit in tighter spots and is a lot lighter
and easier to handle.
2) You will need a lot more 3/32 and 1/8 clecos. More side grip clamps too.
I have never bought from Brown but have heard nothing bad about his tools.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas M. Senecal" <imbomu(at)together.net> |
| Subject: | Low fuel level warning |
Has anyone out there installed a low level fuel warning sensor (available
from Aircraft Spruce) in the RV6A wing tanks? I'm hoping to get some help
on the mounting hole location.
Tom Senecal
Essex Jct., VT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel leak in cabin??? |
>I'm not looking forward to crawling head first under the panel to
>inspect the lines with those 180 horses whirling around at takeoff
>power.
>
>Any suggestions???
>Andy
I had a problem finding a small fuel leak in my Cessna 182. After being
parked a few days I could smell fuel when first entering the aircraft cabin
and I could not find any visable leakage. I wrapped and stuffed tissue
paper (Kleenex or paper towels) into suspect areas and left the aircraft
parked 48 hrs.
A fuel dye stain from a pinhole leak in an aluminum fuel line showed up on
the tissue paper but did not leave any apparent stain on the fuel line
itself.
I have also used this technique to find leaks around fuel quantity sender
units (screws or gaskets leaking?) in the wing root by packing/wrapping
tissue into the area, putting the fairings back on and test flying.
Hope this helps.
Seasons Greetings to one and all!
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
Hoping santa brings Apollo SL60.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EDWARD HASCH JR <hasch(at)earthlink.net> |
by holland.it.earthlink.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA09391
by mole with esmtp (Exim 1.73 #2)
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 21:07:27 -0600
From: EDWARD HASCH JR <hasch(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-6 For Sale
Based Gallatin TN (M33) Hangared 340 TTAF 985 SMOH PP 0-320-E3D 150 HP
Sterba 68X68-Sliding Canopy-Gyros-Elect T/C-GPS-AT150 Mode C-ICOM A200
COM-Escort II NAV/COM-ELT-EGT/MP-Instru Lights-Intercom-Whelan NAV and
Strobes-Taxi/Landing Light-Full Swival Tail Wheel-Loretsen Interior-
12 Lb Starter Ring Weight-3 Pos Man Flaps-Man Ail and Pitch Trim-
Day/Night OPS-175 MPH Cruise at 2500 RPM-Smooth Airplane-Polished
Aluminum Finish-Outstanding IN and OUT. Built by owner 1992
Price $57,000.
Ed Hasch
A$P IA,CFI,FAA-DAR
RES 615-824-4704 Office 615-275-3418
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc. |
>Panel lighting: I'll not be using internal lighting; so, I'm picking
>between the eyeball and rotating map lights.
I have two eyeball lights mounted in the tip-up canopy frame. They are
about 10 to 12" apart and are aimed so that the beams cross between the
pilot and copilot's heads. I used a small circular piece of UHMW plastic
with a hole drilled in it to cover the back side of the eyeballs.
Brightness is controlled by a dimmer module which I built in accordance with
Bob Nuckolls design. The lights are adequate for the panel, but not for
reading my kneeboard.
>Transponder: I currently use a KT76A in my Cheetah. However, I'm
>leaning toward the Terra with Terra encoder.
I have the Terra 760D and 250D. They take up little panel space, and I am
generally pleased with the operation. The 760D also has a built-in
intercom. My 250D had problems with the button which toggles between
frequencies. Terra fixed it on warrantee (at a local avionics shop) without
any questions. I used the RMI Microencoder; I Highly recommend it.
>ELT: ACK or AMERI-KING?
Ameri-King is less expensive. Who knows which is better? Hopefully you
will never need it.
>I'm probably going to have the oil cooler Van sells. Any opinions on
>the firewall mounting.
I ordered a racing oil cooler from a local speed shop (ca. 12" x 4" x 2")
for about $75. I mounted it to the left rear baffle. I originally cut an
opening in the baffle about the size that is shown on the baffle drawings.
I later had to close this off considerably to get oil temperatures up to the
desired level (180 deg.). So far I have used five 3/4" holes in the summer;
I cover three of them with duct tape in the winter. If I was doing it over
again, I would probably rig up some type of a cockpit actuated flap over the
oil cooler air inlet.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; flying; 159 hours since April 97.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Barnes <skytop(at)starnetinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sherwin Williams Primers |
MoeJoe wrote:
>
>
> I use the 988 Self Etchig primer. It's good stuff, but you will
> eventually have to switch to a spray-on primer for large parts. (spray
> cans just won't cut it) You have to find a S/W Automotive supplier. I
> also worry about the corrosion protection it supplies. It isn't
> mil-spec. I'm going to switch to S/W wash primer, and use a Alodine
> treatment. Let me know how you make out. If I can find the S/W
> Automotive 800 number, I'll send it to you.
>
> Moe
> RV-8 Emp
>
>I use the s/w industrial wash primer (green 522-8804) P60 G 2 that I think you
are planning to switch to. The doc on the back of the can says "do NOT to use
this Wash Primer when the subtrate has an adequate chemical treatment such as
iron or zinc phosphate on steel or galvanized, or an alodine treatment on aluminum."
(Nor on blasted surfaces...)
Looking further, here is some good news, it says: "...is a fast drying,
pretreatment type, 2-pachage acid cataliyzed vinyl wash
primer...,promotes excellent adhesion and functions as a tie coat over
most untreated aluminum, non-ferrous or ferrous metals and galvanized
steel."
I'm not a paint expert but I'm happy with this product. I prep the work
with alumiprep & scotch brite pad or sometimes with just lacquor thinner
on a lint free kitchen towel.
Tom Barnes -6 fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Sharpening |
Let's see, if I take the cost of the Drill Doctor ($169.99) and divide the
cost of a drill bit ($.69) into that, I can buy 246 bits and every one of them
will be sharp and properly ground. Just think of the time I could save by not
sharpening 246 bits. I might even have enough time to work on my RV. What a
neat idea!
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Gross wt q's |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I suspect that Van designed the wing to 6g (at aerobatic wt.) using
>the
>standard allowable bending stress. If this is so, then the so called
>"ultimate" load would be obtained as follows: 1.0/.66 * 6g = 9g
>9g then becomes the theoretical stress level at which the spar begins
>to be
>permanently deformed.
I don't know much about the engineering criteria for wing design, but I
can tell you that all the RV wing's are designed to have a flight usable
range of +6 G's. Anything above that can cause permanent structural
damage.
When the wings were statically loaded. We would first simulate the
weight carried by the wings at aerobatic gross weight while pulling
6 G's. afterwards they would be unloaded and inspected for any permanent
deforming or structural damage. After its found to be satisfactory the
wing(s) would be reloaded until failure and verified that took place at
least 1.5 times the loading used at the 6 G test which is the same as 9
G's.
I believe this meets the criteria for the requirements of the FAR's to
cert. for aerobatics.
The bottom line is -- if you
>are
>flying in the 6g to 9g range, you are "skating on thin ice". If you
>get to
>the point where you are permanently bending metal, your remaining
>flying
>time may be measured in fractions of a minute, unless you are very
>lucky.
>
>
>Mark Nielsen
>RV-6; flying.
I hope everyone concerned realizes that the real bottom line is
don't even think about flying your RV above 6 G's (only valid at
aerobatic gross weight or lower) or you can likely do permanent damage to
your airplane or worse. It may only be some slightly stretched
(loosened) skins but never the less... Please keep this in mind in all
modes of RV flight.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jodyedwards(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Automotive dimmer for panel lites |
Has anyone had any experience , good or bad using automotive dash light
dimmer reostats to control cockpit rail mounted LED panel lights?
Jody Edwards RV 4 s/n 3479
Starting wiring
and plumbing soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | emergency fuel tank |
I was wondering what the general consensus was about installing a third
fuel tank. It would hold but a few gallons and could gravity feed the carb
directly, bypassing the electric and manual pumps. It would be used when
the main tanks ran dry or perhaps the normal fuel system quit or was
clogged. Maybe it would be best to mount it in the engine compartment and
have a cable to the shut-off valve. Imagine, you could have a welded tank,
no proseal! Of course, with this option we might not have the RV-9 sorry
Andy:=) kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Instruments, avionics, etc. |
>I'd like an electronic tach. Any ideas without shooting my wallet
>that's already beginning to suffer? :-) Of course, mechanical is fine.
>If mechanical, how about the cable lengths? Any speedometer shop can make a
>cable for you. Just tell them how long.
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220 (Doing seat front floors.)
Jim,
I used a Braal, lighted digital tach. Although it has been trouble free
for 390 hrs. and is very accurate, I would not install one again. It uses
an optical pickup that reads 30 alternating black & white squares that you
paint on the back of the ring gear. The painting of these squares is very
time consuming (the polite way to say pain in the rear) and the display on
the Braal is kind of small. I plan on going with another digital tach (no
cable driven tachs for me) but have no idea which one, yet.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Listers,
If you are looking for a better deal in ISP's (Internet Service Providers)
try surfing to ----> http://www.thelist.com <----- this is a listing
of ISP's that are available and listed. (not all ISP's are listed.) They
have prices etc....There is a search engine for searching by area code. My
ISP costs me $210/Yr. and I get 5 Megs of storage and a Web page if I want
one. Unlimited access to the net at 56X2 modem speed. I think it's a pretty
good deal. Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year (or
whatever you celebrate.) Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas r. jones" <tom144(at)theonramp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc. |
----------
>
> >I'd like an electronic tach. Any ideas without shooting my wallet
>
Try a digital from J.C.Whitney about $40 or less. Works by inductance off
of one plug lead. Found to be very accurate against prop balancing
equipment tach.
A. V.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc. |
> Transponder: I currently use a KT76A in my Cheetah. However, I'm
> leaning toward the Terra with Terra encoder.
>
I had a Terra digital transponder in my Cherokee. I didn't like it because it
was a pain in the tookus to tune. The numbers change and different rates
depending on how fast you turn the knob... that didn't come out right... I
mean they jumped numbers if you turned the knob quickly. It never failed that
the turbulence started right after I was given a new squawk code. I had a
KT76-syle in the 140 before the Terra and I'll have something similar to the
KT76 in my RV-8 when the time comes.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Impressions Of My New Constanst Speed Prop |
Compared To Wood
>Thanks, you've sold me on a CS prop.
>
Me too! Now where am I going to come up with the extra $5500 for CS and
governor? I know, I will talk Dave Barnhart out of his before he gets a
chance to fly it.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
Peoria, AZ
rv-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Laser's for Dogfighting |
Hello Listers...
There will be a bunch of RV's that will be finished and flying at about the
same time here in lovely Loveland, Colorado. We've been kicking around the
idea of installing the laser (or whatever it is) system that would allow us to
dogfight and score "kills." I think that Skyfighters over in the Denver area
uses this type of system. I assume that it has a transmitter and some sort of
receiver or receivers.
Does anyone have any information re: the source and cost of such a system.
Check six, right Mark?
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low fuel level warning |
----------
> Has anyone out there installed a low level fuel warning sensor (available
> from Aircraft Spruce) in the RV6A wing tanks? I'm hoping to get some help
> on the mounting hole location.
Brian and I both put them in, against Tom Green's advice. Mounting them as
low as possible in the removable cover they tend to switch on with maybe 5
gals. left. They quit working and now are just another possible leak. Tom
was right. (don't tell him I said so:=) I have run the tanks purposely
dry. It's no big deal. You reach over switch tanks and continue, maybe
kicking the pump on for a moment, although this isn't really necessary.
It's the second time in the same flight that even low fuel switches won't
fix. My advice-spend your money and time on something else. kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Hi, I thought I would share this from what I found out about fuel tank
nutplates. I do hate to admit this...but maybe by some very off chance it
could happen to someone else. The 8 errant nut plates in the access plate
assembly were in good shape. They were 10-32 which happen to be mixed into
my tray 8-32 nut plates when I was assembling the tanks. I dumped the sack
of 8-32 in to the storage tray and check no farther. I went though the the
remaining nut plates and found 4 more 10-32 mixed in with the 8-32. The
screws as I said before would start nicely and as soon as pressure was put
on them, they would slip. I had the backs covered pretty good with Proseal
so they looked the same in the mirror. I cleaned a little Proseal from the
back both a good and bad(?) nut plates and it was very obvious in the
mirror. Carefully drilled the holes leading into the nut plates and 10-32
screwed just like intended....
Got to check-check and recheck
Thanks again for everyone good suggestions.
The best Holidays ever to you and yours.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)adobe.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Randolph Ranthane andf Dupont Variprime? |
Bruce,
You may want to call DuPont's Technical Support about this. I believe
that you need to seal the Veriprime before you topcoat it.
You can contact DuPont's Technical Support at:
800-338-7668
Hope this helps...
Jeff Hawkins
RV-8 #80563
Suwanee, GA
>
>I have used Dupont Variprime, self etching primer on my -6A. It is getting
>within a few months of paint time. I have primed all inside surfaces, and
>shoot a line of primer along each rivet line on the outside. (Primer under
the
>rivets, good thing)
>
>So, I have been experimenting with Randolph Paint's Ranthane (polyurethane)
>finish. Was very pleased with my trial, flows well, shine like a mirror,
etc.
>But...
>
>I shot the trial on a large piece of scrap that had been primed with
>Variprime. There appears to be no problem with the reaction between the two,
>at least in the couple of weeks since the trial. Scraping hard with a sharp
>object will remove the finish down to the bare metal. (scary)
>
>Of course Randolph says their product can only be used over their epoxy
>primer, which is what I would say if I were selling paint. But, the thought
>of shooting the plane with an epoxy primer, and the preperation for that,
>clean, etch, passivate, etc, is a bad dream. So the question is:
>
>Has anyone used this combination, and what is the result, expecially long
>term.
>
>Bruce Patton
>Instrument panel and Engine DONE!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)adobe.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dropped from list?? [Everyone should read |
this!]
Mindspring is nation wide and provides very good service. I have
had no troubles with them at all. They offer unlimited email, web
and ftp space and 56K modem support. I believe I pay 14.95 a month
but you can check their web site for pricing at www.mindspring.com.
-Jeff
RV-8 #80563
Suwanee, GA
>
>
>>
>
>> I'm seeing
>> rates as low as $15/month for unlimited connect time and 5 MB or more
>> of personal disk space. The only way you'll get substandard services to
>
>Bob: could you give us specifics so we can shop around? Thanks
>
>
>Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS!
>
>Lothar|| Denver, CO || finishing wireing new PILOT SHED (~carriagehouse)||
> loocking for RV- 6 JIG |||
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Anthony Wiebe <awiebe(at)cadvision.com> |
| Subject: | Is there a Santa Clause? |
Just thought I would share this little bit of information with all of
you ... Have A Merry Christmas!
As a result of an overwhelming lack of requests, and with research
help from that renown scientific journal SPY magazine (January, 1990)
- I am pleased to present the annual scientific inquiry into Santa
Claus.
1) No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000
species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of
these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying
reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.
2) There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT
since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish and
Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the total - 378
million
according to Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate
of3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes
there's at least one good child in each.
3) Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the
different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming he
travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 822.6
visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household
with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of
the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the
remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left,
get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the
next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly
distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false
but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now
talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75-1/2 million
miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once
every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc. This means that Santa's sleigh
is moving at
650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of
comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space
probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer
can run, tops, 15 miles per hr.
4) The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element.
> Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego
set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting
Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land,
conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting
that "flying reindeer" (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal
amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine. We need
214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the
weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for comparison - this
is four times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.
5) 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous
air resistance - this will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as
spacecraft re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of
reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second.
Each. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously,
expose the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in
their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26
thousandths of a
second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces
17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems
ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by
4,315,015 pounds of force.
In conclusion -
If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.
Happy Holidays.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is there a Santa Clause? |
Well Anthony, I've had full grown adults say that an airplane you build
yourself will never fly!
So who are you supposed to believe??? Happy Holidays to all! Al
>
>Just thought I would share this little bit of information with all of
>you ... Have A Merry Christmas!
>
>
>As a result of an overwhelming lack of requests, and with research
>help from that renown scientific journal SPY magazine (January, 1990)
> - I am pleased to present the annual scientific inquiry into Santa
> Claus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Need Advice On Making Cowling Blanket, I am using |
Reiff Winter Heaters
SCOTT JOHNSON wrote:
>
> >I installed the Reiff cylinder and oil pan heaters that plug into 120v
> >AC
> >for my RV6A.
> >
> >However, to keep that heat in the engine, I need to make a blanket to
> >go
> >over the cowling for insulation.
SCOTT MCDANIELS wrote:
> Scott we have one of the oil sump heaters on the blue 6A at Van's and
> with just that doing the warming after being on over night the cyl fins
> are warm. That's not with temps at 0 Deg F. but still quite cold.
>
> Before going to a lot of trouble with a blanket and such, I suggest first
> you just try closing off the cowling openings with foam plugs
> (cooling and induction inlets, and the bottom air exit) to keep cold air
> from blowing through. It might have excellent results. If you have any
> digital CHT instruments you could check what kind of temp rise you attain
> (along with oil temp). Maybe someone else out there has already
> experimented with something similar?
Scott and Scott,
Closing the cowl openings is the main priority. Otherwise, it's like
trying to bake something with the oven door open. A blanket adds
insulation. With our oil heater alone, expect it to raise the oil temp
about 100 degrees over ambient. Through conduction & convection the top
end & cylinders will be raised about 40 degrees. With the oil heater
and cylinder heaters the oil will be raised about 100 and the top end
about 80 degrees above ambient. These temps are with an engine blanket.
With no blanket and the cowl openings not plugged, subtract about 30
degrees.
I measured the oil temp by draining some into a styrofoam cup and
measuring directly, since the oil temp sensor on the back of the engine
isn't giving the temp of the oil in the sump. To measure what you're
getting on the top end, I suggest you just lay a thermometer on top of
the engine, unless you have a digital CHT gauge and you know it is
accurate.
Bob Reiff
RV4 #2646, building fuselage
Reiff Preheat Systems
FAA-PMA aircraft preheat systems, RV wing skin heaters
http://www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
Another item that I experienced in my RV-6A, was exhaust pulse
noise on the
floor pan. I believe that has to do with the length and/or exit
angle of the
exhaust pipes. Originally my pipe ends were cut straight across
and were at
about a 30 degree angle to the pan. I trimmed the bottom of the
pipes to be
more streamlined and noticed a marked increase in noise level
thereafter.
This is what I would look for. I had a problem once in my Champ where
all of a sudden the noise level more than tripled! Thinking that my
ears were just sensative that day I ignored the noise and pressed on.
It turned out that my exhaust pipe had separated at the "Y" junction and
the main portion had fallen away. The exhaust was beating on the
cowling...like a big bass drum. Sound familiar? Anyway, it's just a
thought. Check to see where exhaust gasses could be hitting something
metal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dropped from list?? [Everyone should read this!] |
Those of you on the west coast should check into JPS. Go to www.jps.net
for details but they offer unlimited email and internet access + web
site space for $89/year. Very good company.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: replacing those golden screws with allen head bolts |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>For both the access plate and the fuel sender plate I replaced the
>AN515-8R8 screws with AN3-4A bolts and an AN960-10 washer under the
>I like the result and would recommend it. I believe the bolts and the
>access plates well be able to be removed with a socket wrench while
>the wings are on.
To all that are contemplating this mod, last week I found out that you
can remove the access plate with the regular screws (wings installed) I
had noticed a slight trail of blue dye under the wing, and expecting the
worst, pulled the intersection cover to inspect. One of the access cover
screws was leaking slightly (I had installed them before learning about
fuel lube, and had installed them dry). It was a very simple matter to
loosen it using a 90deg offset screwdriver, (Sears includes them in most
of their tool kits, and sells them separately) it is a small "z" shaped
affair with an offset Phillips on one end, and flat head on the other. I
used it to turn the screw the first 1/4 turn, then used an ultra stubby
#2 screwdriver to back the screw out, (this very handy unit is only
1-1/4" long overall and fits in easily - Harbor Freight sells them in
pairs for $2) put a dollop of fuel lube on it, and screwed it back in. I
re-did all of the screws on both access plates in less than an hour.
I am a big stickler on weight, and I used every reasonable weight savings
idea on my 6A that I could. I wouldn't want to carry around the extra
weight of all those -3 bolts. I know it isn't a huge amount, but an
ounce here and there starts adding up to pounds very quickly.
Just thought I'd throw that out.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
thank
you, to anything that is clean. If it isn't clean, then all the
promoter in the world isn't going to help. Naptha (Coleman lantern
fluid) "promotes" cleanliness, which is the object. Just don't
contaminate the surface afterward.
This is not the only way, and others can do whatever they like, but I
worry that some people with little building experience may look at
some of these posts and think that the more complicated the process,
the better it must be. Build it safe, light, simple, and straight.
Extra strength and engineering over and above Van's plans are just
extra weight to haul around and more months until you fly.
Off the soapbox, Nomex on,
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Drill Bit Sharpening |
There are two questions here, aren't there?
1. Should I throw away drill bits when dull or try to sharpen them?
2. How can I sharpen a dull drill bits?
If you place a high enough value on time or if you have bushels of bucks or a
high buck profession you might very well throw them away. I have a friend
throws away paint brushes when done. Some people throw away clothes as it takes
too much time to donate them. Some people try to conserve things.
Question number one is about *YOU* and your values. Number two is about drill
bits.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- "Peace on earth, good will to all RV builders"
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
> I have been an electrical contractor for over 20 years, I have never sharpened
> a drill bit, and at what electricians get paid in NY if I saw one of my guys
> trying to re-use a bit, well you get the picture.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown <RV4Brown(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap spar oopsie |
IMHO go with option one. The parts are not that expensive. Remember, the
quality stops when you say that's good enough. Do you really want you and your
family flying around in a metalic compromise that is close but not quite
right?
Rule number two - when in doubt call Van's. Your going to have to do this
anyone to implement option one!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
| Subject: | Low fuel level warning |
> Has anyone out there installed a low level fuel warning sensor
> (available
> from Aircraft Spruce) in the RV6A wing tanks? I'm hoping to get some
> help
> on the mounting hole location.
>
> I have, I'll scan in my pictures and write up some notes and
> publish it on my website (which I'm reworking as we speak).
>
> Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
> RV-6AQME working on the sliding canopy...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap spar oopsie |
RV4Brown wrote:
>
>
> IMHO go with option one. The parts are not that expensive. Remember, the
> quality stops when you say that's good enough. Do you really want you and your
> family flying around in a metalic compromise that is close but not quite
> right?
> Rule number two - when in doubt call Van's. Your going to have to do this
> anyone to implement option one!
>
I tend to agree with this. 1/4" is a lot to fudge. However, if I had
done this and *were* going to fudge, this is what I'd do: (I'm assuming
you have pre- punched skins, BTW. If not, just move the inboard rib
outboard by 1/4" and avoid the interference mentioned in previous
threads. Be prepared, however, to shim the control linkage. On second
thought, maybe follow the following instructions...)
I am also assuming that you have not already drilled the ribs to the
skins. If so, all bets are off. Ok, now position the outboard flap rib
1/16" inboard of where it was supposed to go. This will leave a 1/16"
skin overhand at the outboard end; that little bit of unsupported skin
will be fine. Next, position the inboard rib 1/16" outboard of where it
should have gone. If you position these parts precisely and use the
pre-punched holes, then you should have just enough edge distance - no
room for error!
Next, mark the top of the spar 3/8" from the inboard end. Clamp a piece
of scrap to the bottom flange at the inboard end and mark it 1/8" from
where you trimmed. Now, mark the face of the spar along a line between
the two marks. This line is parallel to the line you should have marked
and leaves the spar 1/8" shorter than the design. Also, there is a
missing wedge at the bottom, leaving the bottom a further 1/8" short.
Install the spar with the outboard end moved 1/16" inboard, and the
inboard rib should line up with the cut you just made. Edge distance
for the bottom-most rivet may be tight, but the extra reinforcing in
this area due to the control hard-point should make it safe enough. The
remaining rivets should have no edge distance problem.
Like any design-on-the-fly solution, there are some pitfalls. You must
resist the temptation to trim the flap skin to the outboard rib, or your
flap control attachment will be 1/8" farther outboard than design. Even
without that, it is still 1/16" farther outboard, which might relieve
some of the fit problems mentioned in other threads, or it may mean you
need a shim to move the attachment back inboard. Finally, I found it
difficult to work in the area around the control attachment; you may
find it impossible to put that bottom-most rivet in place. That's a
pretty tight corner.
Good luck, whatever you decide to do. By the way, if you decide to go
with a new spar, at least you got some great material to practice on :).
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Anderson <Anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
who
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
You stated:
> I seem to recall that alodine is bad for you (also mek, etc) so I'm
> sort of
> staying away from it. Also: if alodine (or am I thinking of the acid
> etch?) is
> rinsed off with tap water, you can introduce solids and salts into the
> surface- you should use D.I. water for the rinse. Where the heck can
> we get
> that stuff?
>
> Check six!
> Mark
>
Use bottled distilled water (not spring water!), available from any
grocery store - this will be free enough of dissolved salts for our
purposes (besides, true D.I. water is a bit corrosive at first until it
has scavenged a few ions into solution).
Keith Jensen
-6A emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Sounds very familiar. I can't wait to go out and check all this stuff.
Merry Christmas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flap spar oopsie |
| From: | Stig Holm <stig.holm(at)klippan.mail.telia.com> |
> DETTA MEDDELANDE R I MIME-FORMAT. P grund av att din e-postlsare inte frstr
detta format, kommer hela eller delar av detta meddelande inte att vara lsbart.
--Next_Part_2965676419_228481_MS_Mac_IMN
Guess what? I did the same thing because I didn=B4t realize there was a
difference in the angles between the top and bottom of the spar before it
was too late. Actually, I did the same thing to both spars before seeing my
mistake. Murphy, isn=B4t it?
Because its a loooooong way from Van=B4s to Sweden, where I=B4m building, i
opted for another solution. I rebent the angles so the top angle became the
bottom angle and vice versa.
First try with a high-tech industrial bending brake failed because the
angles varied along the spar after bending. I then used my homemade bending
brake made for bending the trailing edge of the control surfaces together
with some ingenious attachements and finally succeeded.
It took something like 5 hours labour and a couple of nights of thinking to
fix a problem created in 5 minutes but that is something we have to live
with, aint it?
In the end a guy feels OK when Murphy eventually is defeated!
But! If I have lived in the US I sure would have ordered a new spar. A vote
for option #1.
--Next_Part_2965676419_228481_MS_Mac_IMN
Sv: RV-List: Flap spar oopsie
Guess what? I did the same thing because I didn=B4t realize there was a diffe=
rence in the angles between the top and bottom of the spar before it was too=
late. Actually, I did the same thing to both spars before seeing my =
mistake. Murphy, isn=B4t it?
Because its a loooooong way from Van=B4s to Sweden, where I=B4m building, i opt=
ed for another solution. I rebent the angles so the top angle became the bot=
tom angle and vice versa.
First try with a high-tech industrial bending brake failed because the angl=
es varied along the spar after bending. I then used my homemade bending brak=
e made for bending the trailing edge of the control surfaces together with s=
ome ingenious attachements and finally succeeded.
It took something like 5 hours labour and a couple of nights of thinking to=
fix a problem created in 5 minutes but that is something we have to live wi=
th, aint it?
In the end a guy feels OK when Murphy eventually is defeated!
But! If I have lived in the US I sure would have ordered a new spar. A vote=
for option #1.
--Next_Part_2965676419_228481_MS_Mac_IMN--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Internal Antennas |
Anybody know why the following would/wouldn't work:
Replace the center support bar for the windscreen in a sliding canopy -6 with
a hollow composite (carbon fiber?, kevlar?) tube with the same dimensions and
strength. Insert (or build) a comm antenna inside the new composite bar.
Voila... hidden antenna, short cable run, decent orientation.....
If one was to attempt this, are there composites to avoid because of radio
wave propagation problems?
Thanks,
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
KBoatri144 wrote:
snipped
> Anybody know why the following would/wouldn't work:
>
> Replace the center support bar for the windscreen in a sliding canopy -6 with
> a hollow composite (carbon fiber?, kevlar?)
>
> If one was to attempt this, are there composites to avoid because of radio
> wave propagation problems?
Kyle,
I don't know about Kevlar, but Carbon fiber will block the signal.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Anybody know why the following would/wouldn't work:
>
>Replace the center support bar for the windscreen in a sliding canopy
>-6 with
>a hollow composite (carbon fiber?, kevlar?) tube with the same
>dimensions and
>strength. Insert (or build) a comm antenna inside the new composite
>bar.
>Voila... hidden antenna, short cable run, decent orientation.....
>Kyle Boatright
Before you consider an attempt at this; have you thought about what that
brace bar is there for, and whether you can really design a composite
replacement that you know is as strong.
Their are other problems to deal with also.
That would place the transmitting ant. less than 24 inches from the
microphone/audio source and it nearly always causes a feedback problem
(particularly with a higher powered radio transmitter, 8 to 10 watts).
There are ways to solve this but with all the other choices for com ant
installations my vote would be forget it and focus the effort on
completing the airplane.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
>Anybody know why the following would/wouldn't work:
>
>Replace the center support bar for the windscreen in a sliding canopy -6 with
>a hollow composite (carbon fiber?, kevlar?) tube with the same dimensions and
>strength. Insert (or build) a comm antenna inside the new composite bar.
>Voila... hidden antenna, short cable run, decent orientation.....
>
>If one was to attempt this, are there composites to avoid because of radio
>wave propagation problems?
>Thanks,
>Kyle Boatright
As mentioned before, Carbon Fiber is a conductor of electricity and will
totally shield your antenna if mounted inside, and drastically effect the
radiation pattern if within 1 wave length of the antenna. (Your average GA
antenna is 1/4 wave length, so you get the yard stick out and see how hard
it is to get 1 wavelength away from most anything on a small airplane.)
The other problem with antennas in the cockpit area are the 2 large bags of
salt water in the seats. People are *NOT* good things to have within 1
wave length of your antenna for Tx or Rx.
There is a good reason why most metal ships mount antennas on the tail cone
or bottom of fuselage. I suggest you reconsider the wing tips.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShowCtrGuy <ShowCtrGuy(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Merry Christmas to all and to all a good flight.. |
I found this in my boss's hangar today as I was cleaning it out.. I hope that
you all will enjoy it! This was found origionally taped to a glass display
case at Buffalo (N.Y.) international airport, and is credited by Paul Harvey
News to Anonymous:
T'was the night before Christmas all over the place
When we were confronted by an old flying ace.
There was icing reported and turbulent air
He said "File me a flight plan, I gotta get there."
Outside sat his aircraft, all ready to run,
And the old man walked out to that P-51.
"Bad weather's no problem," he silently mumbled.
The Prop came to life...that big Allison rumbled.
He eased in the throttle, the roar shook the ground,
He taxied on out and turned it around.
He went through the run-up and seemed satisfied.
Then he said to himself, I'm in for a ride.
So he lined it up straight as he poured on the coal,
The tailwheel came up as he started to roll.
Up, off the runway, he sucked up the gear,
And that mighty V-12 was all you could hear.
He screamed overhead with a deafening crack,
The blue flames were flying from each shiny stack.
He pulled up the nose and started to climb,
No ice on that airframe, it didn't have time.
On top of the weather with the levers all set,
He looked up above him and saw a Lear Jet.
With jet fuel and turbines, there just ain't no class,
Gimme pistons and props and lots of avgas!
Now he was approaching where he wanted to go,
But the weather had Covered the runway with snow.
How will he land it? We'll just have to guess.
Because the only way in was a full I-L-S.
Then over the marker, he started his run,
The ceiling was zero, visibility...none.
Still going three hundred and he felt the need,
For an overhead break to diminish his speed.
Over the numbers he zoomed, along like a flash.
Pulled into his break, we just knew he would crash.
Oh, why do they do it on these kind of nights??
Then over the threshold, we saw landing lights.
"I'm on short final with three in the green,
And I see enough runway to land this machine."
Then he tied down that Mustang, and they all heard him say...
"Next year, I'm sticking with my reindeer and sleigh"
I wish a very merry Christmas to everyone!
Jeremy King
Crew chief, Airshow Unlimited.
http://members.aol.com/Brad3152/Airshow.html
RV4 #3981 Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Rocky Mountan Instrument uMonitor |
Is anyone using a RMI uMonitor for their primary tach and MP instrument and
the uEncoder from ALT, IAS & VSI ? Do you have any kind of backup unit?
Don Mack RV-6A
donmack(at)allways.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice On Installing VANS Prop Governor Bracket |
Yes Bob,
On my governor the control lever is mounted on a splined shaft. It looks
like it would be possible to loosen and reposition the lever only,
however, now that I think about it, I wonder if that would work because
the lever return spring assembly, which may be hooked onto cover, would
have to be referenced also. I'll take another look and publish again
tomorrow eve before I shut down for the holidays.
Sorry I took so long on this response......must be the time of year!
Happy Holidays!
Ron Vnadervort
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas- in the gear leg cover? |
<< Anybody know why the following would/wouldn't work:
Replace the center support bar for the windscreen in a sliding canopy -6 with
a hollow composite (carbon fiber?, kevlar?) tube with the same dimensions and
strength. Insert (or build) a comm antenna inside the new composite bar.
Voila... hidden antenna, short cable run, decent orientation.....
>>
Seems to me that bar is in there for rollover protection. I suggest you stick
with metal for that piece.
Another option, just to add another to the pile of confusing possibilities, is
to put the antenna in the fiberglass gear leg cover. If you want to order a
set of the 1-pc fiberglass fairings that I make, I'll mold your antenna into
the inside leading edge, no extra charge (you supply the antenna material).
This would seem to align the antenna to what it would be anyway, if mounted on
the belly. I would think that the gear leg might shadow the signal, but then
again them radio waves is strange things! Maybe Jim "Les Drag" Ayers has some
input here?
To paraphrase Henry Ford- You don't have to know everything, but you do need
to know who to ask.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas- in the gear leg cover? |
<< Anybody know why the following would/wouldn't work:
Replace the center support bar for the windscreen in a sliding canopy -6 with
a hollow composite (carbon fiber?, kevlar?) tube with the same dimensions and
strength. Insert (or build) a comm antenna inside the new composite bar.
Voila... hidden antenna, short cable run, decent orientation.....
>>
Seems to me that bar is in there for rollover protection. I suggest you stick
with metal for that piece.
Another option, just to add another to the pile of confusing possibilities, is
to put the antenna in the fiberglass gear leg cover. If you want to order a
set of the 1-pc fiberglass fairings that I make, I'll mold your antenna into
the inside leading edge, no extra charge (you supply the antenna material).
This would seem to align the antenna to what it would be anyway, if mounted on
the belly. I would think that the gear leg might shadow the signal, but then
again them radio waves is strange things! Maybe Jim "Les Drag" Ayers has some
input here?
To paraphrase Henry Ford- You don't have to know everything, but you do need
to know who to ask.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Brake pedal angle |
I felt the angle of the rudder pedal built per plan was in postion
that would be to easy to use for a tail dragger (and maybe for a nose
wheeler, too) with the angle of my foot when pushing a rudder. Frank
Justice's great instructions addresses this by increasing the distance
downward of the tab of F-6117A to 1-1/2" from 1-1/4" and drilling the holes
for the brake cylinders a 1/4" lower, thereby angling the top of the rudder
pedal back about 1".
I installed the brake pedals and locked the bottom of the left and
right rudder bars together. Assuming that this is the way they will set
with neutral rudder. I found that to make the brake pedals angle back at
the same angle the right hole would be lower then the left hole 3/16".
Has any one noticed that the right hole is lower then the left when
they are at equal angles? Or don't the rudder bars bottoms line up
normally? Which dosen't seem right to me. Or is this just nit-picking stuff?
Or maybe my feet at different angles!
The best Holidays ever to you and yours.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
> Has any one noticed that the right hole is lower then the left when
>they are at equal angles? Or don't the rudder bars bottoms line up
>normally? Which dosen't seem right to me. Or is this just nit-picking stuff?
>Or maybe my feet at different angles!
>
The holes need to be at different places due to the geometry. Originally
I drilled per plans and I had different pedal angles, then I noticed the
note on the drawing "drill in assembly" or something like that.
I ordered a new piece and "drilled in assembly." It's appears to be fine
now but at full pedal extension there tends to be a little brake pedal
movement. Without having the brakes hooked up I don't know if there
would actually be braking action or not at this slight pedal movement.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Cabin Frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
<< far more common in aircraft maintained by the trained chimps the airlines
are willing to pay for >>
<>
<>
And speaking of trained chimps......
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
Denny,
I found the same thing. See you at the next meeting!!!
Ross
----------
>I found that to make the brake pedals angle back at
the same angle the right hole would be lower then the left hole 3/16".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cafgef <Cafgef(at)aol.com> |
<< (besides, true D.I. water is a bit corrosive at first until it
has scavenged a few ions into solution). >>
The reason for the most of the corrosion potential of DI water is the desolved
CO2 in it. The pH of DI water that has been setting around is about 5 to 6.
Bring the water up to boil and that will drive off the CO2 and neutralize the
pH. Voila, no noticeable corrosion.
Gene Francis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
<< Wrong again Buzzard Breath! >>
Buzzard breath. BUZZARD BREATH?? How did you know??
Sorry, but the smallest Douglas product I ever worked on, was a DC-3, and that
was a looong time ago. I did manage to at least look at a -6 or two while I
was in the service. I never got to turn wrenches on the lead sled. I
currently work the 10s and 11s, but Im not sure if their RATs are
hydraulic or electric, or a combination of both. Im a line type right now,
and the boys in the hangar are the only ones that get that deep into the big
jets. Thats what they tell me is behind that oblong door, just below the
F/Os window, though.
The DC9, has an airborne operable APU doesnt it? Seems as I recall one of my
fellow employees who did work on them, mentioning something about that.
Speaking from curiosity only, and since you have first hand experience with
them, on the 767, how did they handle the failure modes, if you lost a CRT? I
know on the glass Douglas panels, they have a priroty arrangement which
automatically switches critical info to another CRT if one goes toes up.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | morristec(at)icdc.com |
| Subject: | N# size for international flight |
Does anyone know what size N#'s are required to fly from US to Canada?
Will the 3" suffice? I don't really want to put the 12" on but do want
to fly into Canada.
Dan Morris
RV-6 almost done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
I flew a MD product with a RAT (F-4 Phantom)
Gary (no I ain't no busdriver) Fesenbek
-----Original Message-----
From: W B Ward [SMTP:WBWard(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 2:00 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: RV-List: gyros
<< Wrong again Buzzard Breath! >>
Buzzard breath. BUZZARD BREATH?? How did you know??
Sorry, but the smallest Douglas product I ever worked on, was a
DC-3, and that
was a looong time ago. I did manage to at least look at a -6 or
two while I
was in the service. I never got to turn wrenches on the "lead
sled." I
currently work the 10's and 11's, but I'm not sure if their
RAT's are
hydraulic or electric, or a combination of both. I'm a line type
right now,
and the boys in the hangar are the only ones that get that deep
into the big
jets. That's what they tell me is behind that oblong door, just
below the
F/O's window, though.
The DC9, has an airborne operable APU doesn't it? Seems as I
recall one of my
fellow employees who did work on them, mentioning something
about that.
Speaking from curiosity only, and since you have first hand
experience with
them, on the 767, how did they handle the failure modes, if you
lost a CRT? I
know on the glass Douglas panels, they have a priroty
arrangement which
automatically switches critical info to another CRT if one goes
toes up.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
----------
> From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Brake pedal angle
> Date: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 8:49 AM
>
>
> Has any one noticed that the right hole is lower then the left
when
> they are at equal angles? Or don't the rudder bars bottoms line up
> normally?
>
The rudder pedals are not inclined identically in neutral. This bothered
me alot until:
1) I noted that my Skyhawk's pedals are not at the same angle, and the
angular difference differs by more than that of the RV's -- I hadn't been
aware of that in the past 1900 hours or so flying it!
2) I sat in two RV's with similarly unmatched pedal angles and my feet
really couldn't tell the difference.
I conclude that eyes are fussier to this effect than feet!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
>
> >
> > Has any one noticed that the right hole is lower then the left
> when
> > they are at equal angles? Or don't the rudder bars bottoms line up
they are laid out differently because the tops of the pedals are different.
They pivot from different tubes-think about it, the pedal bottoms do line
up. Frank J. suggests more angle for us with big feet. I wish I had
added even more. The pedals actually don't seem to even move. It feels
mostly like just applying pressure rather than actual movement. I seem to
notice it most at takeoff applying right pedal without also applying right
brake.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N# size for international flight |
morristec(at)icdc.com wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know what size N#'s are required to fly from US to Canada?
> Will the 3" suffice? I don't really want to put the 12" on but do want
> to fly into Canada.
>
> Dan Morris
> RV-6 almost done
>
3" is ok to fly into Canada.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim R. Stone" <Stonedog(at)compuserve.com> |
Listers,
I am looking for someone who has a stock -4 wing spar who would like to
trade it for a Plogistron spar. I am considering buying a project that has
the Phlogistron spar but cannot use it on the Harmon Rocket ( could but
don't want to). If you know of someone that is about to order a -4 wing,
or currently has one that has not been assymbled let them know I'm a lookin
to make a trade. Jim Stone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RXDOG1 <RXDOG1(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 wing spar |
Hi
I'm wondering where to find information on the Harmon Rocket. Any internet
sites? Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
| From: | rvsixer(at)juno.com (michael d hilger) |
writes:
>
> I felt the angle of the rudder pedal built per plan was in
>postion
>that would be to easy to use for a tail dragger (and maybe for a nose
>wheeler, too) with the angle of my foot when pushing a rudder. Frank
>Justice's great instructions addresses this by increasing the distance
>downward of the tab of F-6117A to 1-1/2" from 1-1/4" and drilling the
>holes
>for the brake cylinders a 1/4" lower, thereby angling the top of the
>rudder
>pedal back about 1".
>
>
> Denny RV-6
>
>
>
>
>
>
Denny,
I made a mockup so my entire rudder/brake pedal assy was
assembled and plumbed on the bench. I started by lining up the bottom of
the rudder bars with a straightedge. At this point, both left foot and
right foot pedals are offset from the vertical by a like amount. I then
started installing my brake pedals (dual brakes). I then drilled the #10
holes in the brake pedal angles and mounted them to the tabs on the
rudder pedal weldments. The brake pedals were then clamped to the angles
so they can be all lined up together and then drilled to the angles. At
this point I then had all four brake pedals mounted to the weldments and
all nice and straight. I mounted the master cyls, then secured the left
side/left foot brake pedal at the angle I wanted and drilled the tab on
the F-6117A to the master cyl. I then secured the left side/right foot
brake pedal at a like angle. I had to make another F-6117A with a longer
tab. I then drilled the right foot pedal's F-6117A to it's master cyl.
Both the pilot side brake pedals are now at the same angle, and the
co-pilot pedals can be done the same way. I then installed all my
plumbing. Once everything is primed/painted it can be all reassembled and
mounted in the plane at the appropriate time. The brake pedal angle is a
matter of preference, you might want to put the weldments in the plane
and sit in it to see how they fit your feet before you start. (Frank
Justice probably would have gotten this said in two or three sentences.
Sorry.)
Mike Hilger
RV-6 finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICKRV6 <RICKRV6(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N# size for international flight |
<< > Does anyone know what size N#'s are required to fly from US to Canada?
> Will the 3" suffice? I don't really want to put the 12" on but do want
> to fly into Canada.
>
> Dan Morris
> RV-6 almost done
>
3" is ok to fly into Canada.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>>
Jerry's right, the requirement is 12" if you fly into the ADIZ which are
located off shore.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
Does the fuel smell only occur when the tanks are topped off? It's possible
that what you are smelling is the tanks venting.
FWIW, I too have smelled fuel vapor with the electric pump on. It does not
occur often, in fact I can't remember the last time it happened. I thought
that it had to due with some kind of internal venting in the pump itself.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on trim |
stripes ?
My RV6A is currently all white and I would like to add some color to it.
Does anybody know where I could order or get some trim stripes I could press
onto my plane.
I was thinking if I could get a red and blue strip each about an inch or so
wide and 20 feet long I could put some trim stripes on the fuselage.
I wonder how good they would stick at 200 MPH.
Anyway, if I can't find any stick ons, I'll have to resort to painting.
Thanks in advance for any ideas.
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
RV6A 80 TT and loving that new constant speed prop ...
RV8A tailkit started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
During my first 20 or so hours, I had smelled fuel on occasion also.
In my instance, I turned on Vans gas pump and checked firewall forward. To
my surprise, I found that the gascolator drain fuel valve had like small
drops of fuel coming out of it only with the gas pump on. I took it apart
and found a small bit of dirt trapped between the seat of the gascolator
drain valve and valve seat. I cleaned it and put it back together never to
have the problem again.
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
>FWIW, I too have smelled fuel vapor with the electric pump on. It does not
>occur often, in fact I can't remember the last time it happened. I thought
>that it had to due with some kind of internal venting in the pump itself.
>Gary Corde
The other day, for the first time, I smelled fuel while flying. The boost
pump was off but the tanks were full and we were banking right & left pretty
hard (a RV-6A builder giving my plane the once over.) I think that some
fuel may have gone overboard through the vent and the fumes "sucked" into
the cockpit. This hasn't happened since and I checked the fuel system out
from one end to the other. Boy, I don't like smelling fuel in the cockpit:(
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick |
on trim stripes ?
The vinyl I used for N numbers, both before and after painting, were good for
at least 230 mph and didn't peel or fade. Also easy to remove by applying
heat. Got these from a local sign company. I have seen ads in some of the
aviation mags for vinyl items, but haven't used their services and don't know
anyone who has. Have thought about using some for trim until I get my new
plane painted, so am also interested in hearing anyone's experience with this.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
I wonder how good they would stick at 200 MPH.
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountan Instrument uMonitor |
I have the uEncoder with a mechanical altimeter and IAS. I replaced the
VSI with the uEncoder as suggested by manufacturer.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Is anyone using a RMI uMonitor for their primary tach and MP
>instrument and
>the uEncoder from ALT, IAS & VSI ? Do you have any kind of backup
>unit?
>
>Don Mack RV-6A
>donmack(at)allways.net
>http://www.flash.net/~donmack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | less_drag(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Internal Antennas- in the gear leg cover? |
>
(Snip)
> I would think that the gear leg might shadow the signal, but then
>again them radio waves is strange things! Maybe Jim "Les Drag" Ayers
>has some input here?
It'll work. :-( Probably better than just putting a connector on the
end of the coax cable without an antenna. (It has been observed that
just the coax connector provides a range of about one mile.)
>To paraphrase Henry Ford- You don't have to know everything, but you do
need
>to know who to ask.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
Personally, I always talk to Bob Archer about any antenna question. He
is someone who has spent his career successfully designing and MEASURING
the effectiveness of the antenna.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N# size for international flight |
<< Jerry's right, the requirement is 12" if you fly into the ADIZ which are
located off shore. >>
And these can be stick-ons at that. Carry some 2" wide black electrical tape
(or white if your plane is a dark color) with you and those impromptu ADIZ
crossings to follow whale migrations will become ho hum. Don't forget the
life raft!
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trim s...
<< Does anybody know where I could order or get some trim stripes I could
press
onto my plane.
I was thinking if I could get a red and blue strip each about an inch or so
wide and 20 feet long I could put some trim stripes on the fuselage.>>
Hobby stores have these for RC models. Check them out.
<< I wonder how good they would stick at 200 MPH. >>
How about silver/gray stripes using 200 mph duct tape?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
<< I mounted the master cyls, then secured the left
side/left foot brake pedal at the angle I wanted and drilled the tab on
the F-6117A to the master cyl. I then secured the left side/right foot
brake pedal at a like angle. I had to make another F-6117A with a longer
tab. I then drilled the right foot pedal's F-6117A to it's master cyl.
Both the pilot side brake pedals are now at the same angle, and the
co-pilot pedals can be done the same way. >>
Changing the geometry of the lever arm changes the rate of brake application
on that brake pedal? I didn't change the lever arms at all because I wanted
them to feel the same and have the same amount of travel.
I just cut off the upper master cylinder tabs on the weldment and made new
ones which were welded in place with the pedals in the proper positions.
Voila, no rate differential, just proper starting position.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 12/23/97 7:55:15 PM, you wrote:
>I think that some
>fuel may have gone overboard through the vent and the fumes "sucked" into
>the cockpit.
I had this phenomena occur once during a steep pushover, diving bank to final
with a full tank on the low side. This convinced me that vented fuel will
smell up the cockpit, apparently comes in through the wing root fairings.
This was very strong, more so than the smaller leaks described thus far by
listers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShowCtrGuy <ShowCtrGuy(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trim s...
<< Does anybody know where I could order or get some trim stripes I could
press
onto my plane.
I was thinking if I could get a red and blue strip each about an inch or so
wide and 20 feet long I could put some trim stripes on the fuselage.
>>
One of our sirshow team's sponsors, N American Numbers, specializes in this
stuff.. We have vinyl trim all over the SP-95, and it holds up well at up to
258 kts and a bunch of G's.. Call Barry Davis at 800/631-5950 and tell him
Jeremy sent ya.. ]
Happy holidays..
Jeremy King
rv4 #3981
Crew-Airshow Unlimited
http://members.aol.com/Brad3152/Airshow.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick |
on trim stripes ?
One of our local builder, flyers has beenusing vinyl tape on his RV4 for
a couple of years now and it shows no signs of peeling. I stopped by
the sign shop where he had it made and talked to the owner for a while.
He has a PC hooked up to a printer which must use a blade in place of a
stylus. He can brouse through thousands of clip art design as well as
trim lines and use the PC to modify any of them. He then installs a
roll of appropriately colored vinyl and simply cuts it out. He also
uses the same method to create custom stencils in you opt to paint.
Check out some of the local body and trim shops, they usually have a
line on this service.
--
Chet Razer getting paperwork ready to send off to FAA for inspection
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas r. jones" <tom144(at)theonramp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trim
----------
>
> My RV6A is currently all white and I would like to add some color to it.
>
> Does anybody know where I could order or get some trim stripes I could
press
> onto my plane.
PEP Boys, Checker Auto. All colors. We used a dual red stripe the full
length of the plane with a computer cut logo on the verticle stab. It's
been on for almost 200 hours in temperature ranging from sub zero to 120+.
It's still with us. RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trim
Not only can you get trim, but anything you can imagine or pull off the
internet can be cut in vinyl and become nose or tail art. And if you get
tried of it it comes off with a hair dryer. The Pink Panther on the tail
of my -4 (see it at www.petroblend.com/dougr) was drawn and cut freehand by
a local sign maker. The vinyl is available in nearly every color of the
rainbow. I took an access panel off my bird and matched both paint colors
perfectly.
There are several different qualities of vinyl. It varies in thickness and
color fading (and of course price). I also identify my delivery
semi-trailers with it. I spec the 3M good stuff on my trucks. On a trailer
which is in the sun all the time road grime and road salt they still look
pretty good for about 10 yrs. I think it will last forever on an airplane.
There are huge differences in prices between outlets. One Truck project I
got quotes between $700 and $3000 for the same graphics. This was quite
abit of vinyl. The panther on the tail of my -4 was $50 for both sides and
the caption. (I got a real bargain on that!)
Some graphics on your plane can really be alot of fun. When I bought N240 I
took loads of crap about flying a pink airplane. I really did not want to
paint it, the paint on it was a wonderful job, but pink was just not my
color. (I believe that pick-ups, airplanes and lipstick should all be blood
red!) My wife suggested that I put a pink flamigo on the tail ... NOT! I
did however then consider a panther. I put a note pad in my pickup and kept
writing captions until I came up with "got a problem with pink?" That was
it the graphics were cut and applied and the rest is history. It was a big
hit at OSH and made a magazine cover. Get creative! And if it doesn't work
get the hair dryer!
Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re:They do make colored vinyl/tape for stick on trim s... |
>
><< Does anybody know where I could order or get some trim stripes I could
>press onto my plane?.
>
> I was thinking if I could get a red and blue strip each about an inch or so
> wide and 20 feet long I could put some trim stripes on the fuselage.>>
>
>Your local auto body paint supply (wholesale/retail) will be happy to fill
your needs. If Not happy with whats available there the suggestion about
vinyl as supplied by sign shops is good. Actually both could be good. The
body supply for stripes and the sign shop for vinyl letters (any size) and
any custom markings/designs your heart desires.
>-GV
jim, RV6-eh wings half done.
when dreams come true the sky's the limit. >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Splined shaft governor |
Bob,
I looked again at the governor. The spring retainer assembly is
held at two cover screw positions.
It appears that the lever could be reindexed on the spline, and the
spring retainer reindexed under different screw pairs, and thus the cover
would not have to be removed to rotate to a new position.
Happy Holidays,
I'm signing off til the 31st. See you next year!
Ron Vandervort
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: |
<349F92FB.35DC83AE(at)midwest.net>
I bought THIN stripes at the auto body supply house for my Pickup.
If you consider several small stripes like the late model Pipers, it may
be reasonable & look good.
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc. |
Listers,
Thanks to the respondants to my questions concerning some of the
stuff for my panel. Below is how it came out for me. Yesterday, I
ordered the Apollo SL60 to take advantage of the moving map offer.
I also ordered the KT76A transponder due to wiring lead times. I
really wanted the Terra transponder; but, the lead time on them is
better than six months. That is not acceptable. Besides, I've had
two KT76As and have had little trouble with them. I only had to
repair one of them once.
Panel lighting: two eyeballs
Transponder: KT76A
ELT: ACK
UMA instruments: Suction, fuel pressure, oil pressure, and manifold
pressure. I may be staying away from these. One person had a
problem with the manifold pressure gauge.
ISSPRO: Oil pressure, oil temp, voltmeter, ammeter. I'm going with
Mitchell.
United: VSI, Altimeter, airspeed. OK.
Tach: Mechanical. One suggested a tach from J.C. Whitney that's
very accurate. However, I'd like to have hour tracking that probably
wouldn't be on it. It looked like a good idea, though. I've seen those
maybe in Wag-Aero catalogs. Mechanical tachs slow down with
age. That's why I wanted electronic.
The G-meter in the catalog.
Oil Cooler: Van's. Engine mounted. I may still look at a race car
version; but, I'm not very close to any speed shops out here in the
boonies of KY. I can certainly call, though.
Thanks for the help! Have a Merry Chrisrtmas!
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (Rudder pedals/flaps next. Waiting for engine parts.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | morristec(at)icdc.com |
| Subject: | Internal Antennas |
RV>Anybody know why the following would/wouldn't work:
RV>Replace the center support bar for the windscreen in a sliding canopy -6 wit
RV>a hollow composite (carbon fiber?, kevlar?) tube with the same dimensions an
RV>strength. Insert (or build) a comm antenna inside the new composite bar.
RV>Voila... hidden antenna, short cable run, decent orientation.....
RV>If one was to attempt this, are there composites to avoid because of radio
RV>wave propagation problems?
RV>Thanks,
RV>Kyle Boatright
Avoid carbon fiber- it is conductive and therefore not a good window for
RF. Fiberglass or Kevlar are typically used for Radomes.
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike1769 <Mike1769(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
Before I start riveting, should I heat the wing skins. Thanking about using
the
Reiff wing skin heater.
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
While I am waiting on my wing kit to arrive, I would like to know how
important it is to heat the wing skins. It seems to me that since the holes
and distance between the holes are all predetermined (punched), that this
would not make much difference. I have a heated and insulated hangar, would it
be adequate to just keep it 75 degrees or so while working on the skins? Those
of you who did not heat your skins, do you notice any difference? It also
seems to me that the time to heat(if any) would be during drilling of the
skins, as well as when riveting. Any input appreciated.
-8 #544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trimstripes ?
> I was thinking if I could get a red and blue strip each about an inch or
so
> wide and 20 feet long I could put some trim stripes on the fuselage.
>
> I wonder how good they would stick at 200 MPH.
these 24 hr sign shops use a very thin vinyl that holds up even to the
daily UPS
truck washing. My set of 5" N numbers cost $15. They come with a
protective clear layer so you can "squeegee" them on without damaging the
vinyl, then peal it off. Real easy. kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: RMI uMonitor |
>Is anyone using a RMI uEncoder from ALT, IAS & VSI ? Do you have any kind
of backup unit?
I am using the uEncoder but, being an analog kind of guy, also have the
round instruments with the pointy things. I like the OAT and TAS features
of the uEncoder. I find it is quicker to respond to altitude changes than
the analog altimeter. When I'm landing, I use the analog AIS as it is
quicker for my slow brain to read and evaluate (i.e., the needle is pointing
to a certain PLACE on the AIS dial, as well as the number). The uEncoder is
also useful for altitude warnings, showing me what ATC is seeing as my
altitude, density altitude without computing it myself. I may someday take
my analog VSI out; right now it fills that hole and the panel looks cool the
way it is.
Michael
RV-4 232 Suzie Q
(FLYING!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
rlukasik(at)compusmart.ab.ca, doug-son(at)worldnet.att.net,
hmh(at)ix.netcom.com,
bgibson(at)nus.com, parts(at)fletchair.com, B_Dwyer(at)compuserve.com,
Lucas_Cooper(at)bc.sympatico.ca, christen(at)fbo.yorku.ca,
airmods(at)everett.net
Greetings all:
We've all seen a lot of exciting stuff in the last few days (AvWeb, FAA
and NORAD announcements, etc) about Santa's upcoming flight. Most
disconcerting, however, is the heresy being promulgated by some
anonymous engineers that, if Santa ever was alive, he is now most
certainly dead, crushed by the forces which result from stop-and-go
travel at 650 miles-per-second. These unimaginative folks have failed
to take one critical fact into account - Santa is not human, he is an
elf and thus is not subject to the forces of nature in the same way as
we poor mortals are.
For those of you who might be interested in a scholarly treatment of the
true story of Santa Claus and his Christmas mission, I commend to your
attention a little book I have discovered:
"The Flight of the Reindeed"; Robert Sullivan; MacMillan, NYNY
ISBN 0-02-861292-2
This illustrated volume outlines evidence from aboriginal culture,
describes the history of Santa's migration to the North Pole, presents
the aerodynamics of reindeer flight and lays out flight planning details
for the annual mission.
I should say that I have no financial interest in this publication.
Indeed, Santa himself delivered a copy to us last year to assuage the
doubts of my teenage children. According to the jacket of my copy, the
book may be found in the nonfiction section of your favourite library or
bookstore.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Slendid Saturnalia and to everyone, may
you all enjoy health and prosperity in the New Year!!!
Cheers,
--
Hammy [CYVR]
http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/2688/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com> |
I need a little confidence on my RV-4, firewall vertical positioning.
I have one of the later kits (4148) and the top curved part (F401B)
has tooling holes very near the engine mount holes.
The only vertical locating dimension I see is on the fixture sketch
and verified by the fuselage drawing but the dims. seem to ignore the
fact that there is a flange and space for .040 bottom skin below the
bottom engine mount angle. What did some of you RV-4 builders do ?
any info would be appreciated.
thanks Wayne.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
For anyone who has not previously gotten this message;
RVation Bookstore (and videos) catalogs are now available.
To get your FREE catalog, please just write back with your mailing
address.
Also, have a look at our web page at - www.rvbookstore.com
Thanks everyone and have a great holiday season.
Andy Gold
RV-6A N-5060 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc. |
In a message dated 12/24/97 5:09:32 AM, you wrote:
>UMA instruments: Suction, fuel pressure, oil pressure, and manifold
>pressure. I may be staying away from these. One person had a
>problem with the manifold pressure gauge.
My UMA manifold pressure gage picked up some oil and I broke the glass trying
to fix it. Upon reassembly, I managed to stretch the guts out to where it was
not reading right. All these problems were caused by me. Sent to UMA via $3
mail and they: replaced glass and retainer ring, dial and pointer, re
calibrated it and sent it back for $19 plus $3 postage.
I like UMA !! :))
D. Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
Hello;
I didn't heat the skins of my RV-4 and I would put them up against any
finish job. Back rivit the top skins first from the bottom side. I
have seen no difference from sunny 95 degree days to 10 degree cold
days. I drilled and rivited them in my basement at about 60 degrees.
John kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | loz(at)icanect.net (Philip R. Lozman) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
My mailing address is
P.R.Lozman
4095 Park Ave.
Miami, Florida 33133
>
>For anyone who has not previously gotten this message;
>
>RVation Bookstore (and videos) catalogs are now available.
>To get your FREE catalog, please just write back with your mailing
>address.
>
>Also, have a look at our web page at - www.rvbookstore.com
>
>Thanks everyone and have a great holiday season.
>
>Andy Gold
>RV-6A N-5060 flying
>
>
>
>
>
--
Internet Communications of America, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
The gear leg scenario might work, but I'd vote for using the gear leg itself
as the radiating element rather than locating an active element so close
(inches or less) to the metal gear leg. The leg and associated hardware for
the pants and brakes would certainly not be resonant on any aviation frequency
of interest, but might work out to 5/8 wavelength or some variation on that
theme. Seems to me it could be shunt-fed with a stub of proper design, which
could then be encased in a fiberglass leg fairing. Since I have served my
time many moons ago designing moblie HF antennas with only a grid-dipper and
VSWR meter for guidance, I will gladly leave this gear leg feeding problem to
some energetic builder with one of the newfangled digital antenna impedance
scopes. Takers??
Bill Boyd
expecting my altered alternator on today's UPS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trim s.
> it holds up well at up to
> 258 kts and a bunch of G's..
Well, I suppose the slipstream has accounted for more peeled trim strips than
were ever lost to high G's, but it's another argument for not cornering too
tightly in your car or your plane...
"Humor, guys, humor..."
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
| From: | rvsixer(at)juno.com (michael d hilger) |
>Changing the geometry of the lever arm changes the rate of brake
>application?
I checked that out and found the difference to be miniscule. Furthermore,
add up all the play in the bolted joints in the system and, well, you get
the idea...
Mike Hilger
RV-6 (not the space shuttle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
I'm waiting on a wing kit also, that was scheduled to leave Van's this week,
I spoke to several A&P's that have restored a few aircraft over the years.
When I questioned them about heating the wing skins they all had the same
response, They thought I was nutz.
They all asked where I got this idea from, between the 4 of them there must be
over 100 years of experience. They even asked the Original "Rosie the
Rivetter" who work at
our Airport during WW2, she can still rivet with the best of them.
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
EP Completed & Waiting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
RV Bookstore List; Catalog Request
Bill Sivori
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
9 Pondview Court
Jericho, NY 11753
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Fogerson <rfogerson(at)baf.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
What if you used a timer/switch arrangement. Let's say, for example,
full flap extension took 9 seconds and you wanted 3 flap positions.
Every time you bumped the flap switch it started the flap traveling and
simultaneously a 3 second timer. At the end of 3 seconds, the timer
times out and stops flap extension.
> ----------
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III[SMTP:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 3:35 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Pre Positioning Flaps
>
>
>
>
> > The downside would be the need for a ten wire harness (ribbon
> >cable??) back to the panel. I like the idea that everything is
> digital,
> >but not the excess of wires in the harnes. An analog position
> interface
> >would cut down on the number of wires, but increase the cost of the
> >electronics.
> >
> > I'll continue to look at this some more to see if I can come up
> with
> >a low cost, but safe design.....
> >
> >
> How about a potentiometer on the flap mechanism . . . to drive
> a flap position indicator . . . and then two LM311 comparators,
> a couple of power FETS and two relays plus another pot. You can
> "dial" in any flap setting you want and have it drive to that
> setting. Flap switch would have an AUTO, UP, OFF and DOWN positions
> with the non-auto postions providing manual control. Bill of
> materials is under $10. Flap indicator is another $7 for a
> surplus, minature panel meter.
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
> < Show me where I'm wrong. >
> =================================
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
KB2DU wrote:
>
>
> RV Bookstore List; Catalog Request
>
****address snipped*******
>
Why don't you guys send your addresses and phone #'s directly to
the guy with the bookstore instead of posting them here?
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-)
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
Rick Fogerson wrote:
>
>
> What if you used a timer/switch arrangement. Let's say, for example,
> full flap extension took 9 seconds and you wanted 3 flap positions.
> Every time you bumped the flap switch it started the flap traveling and
> simultaneously a 3 second timer. At the end of 3 seconds, the timer
> times out and stops flap extension.
>
I have been watching this flap position indicator thread and wonder
why any of you want to make more work for your selves? Do you know
how easy it is to look and see where the flaps are? Most of the time
I don't even look if I'am below flap extension speed I just feed in
some flap as I slow down, and if I want, feed in the rest on final.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>The gear leg scenario might work, but I'd vote for using the gear leg itself
>as the radiating element rather than locating an active element so close
>(inches or less) to the metal gear leg. The leg and associated hardware for
>the pants and brakes would certainly not be resonant on any aviation
>frequency
>of interest, but might work out to 5/8 wavelength or some variation on that
>theme.
The trouble is it would not be just the gearleg, it would be the whole
airplane as the gear is securely bolted to same.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Cabin Frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | STANAIR <STANAIR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
stan glover
4612 s. calhoun rd
plant city, fl 33567
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
see what "those who know" have to say.
It takes about 5-7 min for it to get hot. If I need to change it
now would be the time.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
>I have been watching this flap position indicator thread and wonder
>why any of you want to make more work for your selves? Do you know
>how easy it is to look and see where the flaps are? Most of the time
>I don't even look if I'am below flap extension speed I just feed in
>some flap as I slow down, and if I want, feed in the rest on final.
>
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>
I tend to agree with Jerry, who has more flight hours in his RV than most.
Knowing your flap system and it's positions seems to me like part of
becoming "one with your aircraft". Being able to "just tell" where they are
and how much more you'll need based on your view of the runway will come
with time. Until you get the feel for it, you can just look out at them.
They're only 3 feet away.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
>
>While I am waiting on my wing kit to arrive, I would like to know how
>important it is to heat the wing skins. It seems to me that since the holes
>and distance between the holes are all predetermined (punched), that this
>would not make much difference. I have a heated and insulated hangar, would it
>be adequate to just keep it 75 degrees or so while working on the skins? Those
>of you who did not heat your skins, do you notice any difference? It also
>seems to me that the time to heat(if any) would be during drilling of the
>skins, as well as when riveting. Any input appreciated.
>-8 #544
>MAlexan533(at)aol.com
>
The idea of heating the skins is to expand the skin material without
expanding the ribs and spars. This necessitates heating of the skins ONLY.
If the ribs and spars are at the same temp as the skin, you have
accomplished nothing, except to burn your hands. The idea is that when the
skin and skeleton temps equalize after being riveted, the skins will be
pulled tight. Whether it works or not seems to depend on how well the skins
were positioned when drilled to the skeleton. I asked Stan VanGrunsven
(Van's brother) how he did it on his 6A and he said he heated the skins on
both wings and it helped on one wing and didn't on the other.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
> I have been watching this flap position indicator thread and wonder
> why any of you want to make more work for yourselves?
Maybe the answer is because we are airplane builders, not normal people!
Alex Peterson 6A finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
83,85,88-96
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>I'm waiting on a wing kit also, that was scheduled to leave Van's this
>week,
>I spoke to several A&P's that have restored a few aircraft over the
>years.
>When I questioned them about heating the wing skins they all had the
>same
>response, They thought I was nutz.
>
>They all asked where I got this idea from, between the 4 of them there
>must be
>over 100 years of experience. They even asked the Original "Rosie the
>Rivetter" who work at
>our Airport during WW2, she can still rivet with the best of them.
>
>
>Bill
>KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
>EP Completed & Waiting
I almost hate posting to this for fear it will become another Primer type
thread.
First off I'm sure that a lot of you builders and owners have learned
that asking an A&P about things pertinent to Custom building is not
always going to give you correct or pertinent advice.
Remember, mechanics are in the business to make money which means
utilization of time. So it is rare to find a run of the mill mechanic who
cares about the fine details of aircraft construction unless they have
been involved in show class type restoration work etc. Have a close look
at the workmanship on a typical cessna or piper; not bad by all means but
they are not concerned about making it look as good as they can. If they
did there airplanes would be even more una fordable than they are now.
So in doing the repair work that A&P's do this is the standard that they
have to work to. If you are an A&P please don't send me hate mail, (I'm
one too)
but I think you can agree that it is only a certain percentage of
mechanics who are true craftsmen. A side not is that I chuckle when I
see for sale adds for RV's that say Built By an A&P. I have seen a
number of poorly built RV's that were built by A&P's. ( And I know of a
number of them that are award winners)
Enough rambling... Should you heat your wing skins? That depends! The
original reason for Van ever suggesting it was for people building in a
cold shop / climate. If you put them on when they are cold and then have
the airplane parked outside in the summer (especially somewhere like
Arizona) particularly if the wings are painted a dark color, you can
tell a difference. Will it not fly as well? No! Will it not be as
strong? No! It is just a cosmetic thing.
It takes a pretty big temp. differential to notice a looseness but it is
there.
The reason that heating them works is that even though the holes are
already drilled, they are not drilled to net fit tolerances on the rivet
holes (especially after dimpling). This slight slop in the holes can be
used to advantage by the skin being expanded ever so slightly over its
whole length when heated.
A very nice finish can be attained (as already mentioned) without heating
them. The heating is to just keep them looking as tight through all temp
ranges that the airplane will encounter.
So you decide whether it is worth the effort.
A little side note - When I built my RV-6A I wanted to be sure that the
skins were always tight so since I lived in Phx I decided it would be
easy to heat the skins with the sun. The top skins were put on last
using a 2X gun with the wing out in the sun mid day with it 100 deg out
side. Some may say this wouldn't help because you are heating the whole
wing, not just the skin. It didn't work that way though because the
interior structure isn't heated at the same temp (it's in the shade) as
the skin on the outer surface (you couldn't hold your hand on it, but the
interior structure you could). What did this do for me? I have skins
that are tight at any thing below 100 deg, and at very cool temps you can
play them like steel drums.
At the time I think my wife believed that everyone put there skins on
this way or I probably would have been working by myself.
I am glad I did it, "But" it certainly isn't necessary if you hope to
have a nice looking top skin finish. The only advantage mine has over
some one else's is that it looks good regardless of temp.
Side note - the top main wing skins are the only ones that benefit from
heating at installation, because they are rather flat. All other skins
either have enough curve in them that the tend to stay tight
(I.E. Fuse. skins) or they don't have enough interior structure that is
separate from the skin to see any benefit (such as control surfaces).
I'm sorry this post has gotten so long, but I hope it will help some of
the new up and coming builders be informed about this often confusing
subject!
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
>
>While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
>master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
>but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
>see what "those who know" have to say.
>It takes about 5-7 min for it to get hot. If I need to change it
>now would be the time.
I will add this only because you acknowledged a lack of knowledge of
electrical systems. If the seleniod is a starter (read intermitent duty)
instead of a Master switch relay (read continious duty) it will get real hot
and fail real soon! It might be something else but if this is a new
installation that is what I would suspect.
Tailwinds, -4 n240
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
<< Furthermore,
add up all the play in the bolted joints in the system and, well, you get
the idea... >>
Play? We've got no stinking play, mon. We ream carefully to an RC1 class of
fit in all our bolted pivots.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
<< While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
see what "those who know" have to say.
It takes about 5-7 min for it to get hot. If I need to change it
now would be the time. >>
The master contactor that Van's sells is Cole-Hersee P/N 24115. This has a
17.5 ohm primary coil. At 14VDC this works out to about 11.2W, so yes, there
is some small heat to shed. Most people mount them directly to the firewall
or the f/w doghouse, so this small wattage heat source is easily heatsinked by
this relatively large thermal mass (despite stainless steel's relatively poor
heat conductivity).
If it's getting too hot, you may have a shorted coil. Try and find out if the
coil resistance is somewhere between 13 and 20 ohms. If so, that's normal for
the continuously rated contactors.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
<< Maybe the answer is because we are airplane builders, not normal people! >>
I resemble that remark!
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
>
> >
> >While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
> >master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
> >but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
> >see what "those who know" have to say.
> >It takes about 5-7 min for it to get hot. If I need to change it
> >now would be the time.
>
> I will add this only because you acknowledged a lack of knowledge of
> electrical systems. If the seleniod is a starter (read intermitent duty)
> instead of a Master switch relay (read continious duty) it will get real hot
> and fail real soon! It might be something else but if this is a new
> installation that is what I would suspect.
>
> Tailwinds, -4 n240
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
> Doug
That was the first thing I checked, it's marked continuous duty.
I purchased it from wick's A/C, along with a starter relay.
I may jusy buy another one for piece of mind. ( another 15$)
Thanks
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc. |
As I am the one guy that had a problem with the UMA Manifold Pressure Gauge, I
thought I might explain. I had numerous instances where the gauge would
stick. I also cleaned it out numerous times, breaking the glass at least
twice and scarring up the face, etc. It would work for a while and then do
the same thing. A friend of mine had the same problem with his. Not worth
the hassle and certainly not the price difference between it and an
overhauled, certified, "aircraft quality" gauge. The reason I say aircraft
quality has to do with the way the gauges are made. The local avionics shop
expained that UMA, and other inexpensive type gauges, use the case as a sealed
chamber to operate the indicating mechanisms for one thing, whereas the
qualitiy gauges use an aneroid which isn't so susceptible to problems. That's
probably why used ones are still around, although the 2 1/4" M.P. gauges are
scarce, particularly at the $125.00 I paid four years ago.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
In a message dated 12/24/97 5:09:32 AM, you wrote:
>UMA instruments: Suction, fuel pressure, oil pressure, and manifold
>pressure. I may be staying away from these. One person had a
>problem with the manifold pressure gauge.
My UMA manifold pressure gage picked up some oil and I broke the glass trying
to fix it. Upon reassembly, I managed to stretch the guts out to where it was
not reading right. All these problems were caused by me. Sent to UMA via $3
mail and they: replaced glass and retainer ring, dial and pointer, re
calibrated it and sent it back for $19 plus $3 postage.
I like UMA !! :))
D. Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
In a message dated 12/24/97 8:08:34 PM, you wrote:
> noticed the
>
>>master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
Mine gets hot at same rate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
writes:
>
>
>While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
>master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
>but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
>see what "those who know" have to say.
>It takes about 5-7 min for it to get hot. If I need to change it
>now would be the time.
>
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
>
>
Craig
Check to make sure that you used a continuous duty solenoid for the
master and not an intermittent duty (starter) solenoid.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | AN Flare to Pipe Adapters |
The other day I bought an Aeroquip Performance Products catalog and discovered
a connector that I had not previously seen in any aviation fittings listing.
These are Steel Female Connectors that go from male AN Flare to female pipe
threads. These will work great to plumb up the pressure transducers and
thereby eliminate a fitting and two possible leak points.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Splined shaft governor |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Bob,
>
>I looked again at the governor. The spring retainer assembly is
>held at two cover screw positions.
>
> It appears that the lever could be re indexed on the spline, and the
>spring retainer reindexed under different screw pairs, and thus the
>cover
>would not have to be removed to rotate to a new position.
>
>Happy Holidays,
>
>I'm signing off til the 31st. See you next year!
>
>Ron Vandervort
>
>
I think I missed part of this thread so disregard if this isn't
pertinent, but if you are attempting to re orientate the control arm on a
woodward governor sold by Van's you don't have to take anything apart or
remove and reinstall the arm on the shaft.
If you loosen all the screws, the interior portion of the goveror end
that has the control arm and stops attached can be rotated 360 deg to
what ever position you want and then re tighten the screws.
If you look around the outside edge at the end you will see that the gov.
is marked in with a degree's scale to aid in rotating it to the position
that you need to match your installation.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Lervold <RLervold(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Landing light decision |
Ok listers,
My -8 wing kit will be here any day. That means I'm going to have to make a
decision on which landing lights to use. I've decided against the
tip-mounted style where the front corner of the wingtip becomes a clear
lense with the lights inside. Aerodynamically clean, but lights will flare,
it increases the weight due to the fiberglass inner surface & hardware, and
it looks like a pain to install (I don't like working with fiberglass).
Rather I'd like to install the "in-wing" variety unless someone has a
compelling reason otherwise.
My understanding is that there are four choices/suppliers; Duckworks (also
sold by Van's), RMD (disqualified because they are the wingtip type), Olds,
and BAC (Barnard Aircraft Components). Can anyone give me the relative
merits?
I plan on installing one in each wing and am leaning toward the BAC kits
because:
A) they use standard aircraft landing lights
B) they seem of high quality
C) the lense design is acrylic and is pre-formed
Lastly, are there web sites for Olds and RMD, I haven't really gotten a
close look at those two yet.
Thanks!
Randy Lervold
-8 #80500, mid-VS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing light decision |
Randy Lervold wrote:
> I plan on installing one in each wing and am leaning toward the BAC kits
> because:
> A) they use standard aircraft landing lights
Randy, I went with Olds because he uses "standard" automobile lights...I
think they're preferable to standard aircraft landing lights...am I
wrong?
Will Cretsinger
Arlington, TX
-6A now working the tilt canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
----------
> From: Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com>
> In a message dated 12/24/97 8:08:34 PM, you wrote:
>
> > noticed the master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as
being normal,
>
> Mine gets hot at same rate.
>
David Carter wonders why a static "no function but to hold contacts
together" device should draw 2/3 amp (i.e., 12 volts divided by abt 18
ohms).
Do Cessna's and Mooney's have such low resistance coils in their relays and
heat up the same way? What are we to compare to as "normal"?
I've heard that a Silicon Controlled Rectifier (SCR) is capable of carrying
relatively heavy current, at least in the digital device "world". Could
something as simple and light weight as that be used in a "master switch"
role? (I'm not an Elec Eng.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
>Do Cessna's and Mooney's have such low resistance coils in their relays and
>heat up the same way? What are we to compare to as "normal"?
>
>I've heard that a Silicon Controlled Rectifier (SCR) is capable of carrying
>relatively heavy current, at least in the digital device "world". Could
>something as simple and light weight as that be used in a "master switch"
>role? (I'm not an Elec Eng.)
An SCR works great as a switch for AC. But for DC it latches as soon as
power is applied to the "trigger", and will not unlatch until power is
removed. Since you're talking about the possibility of replacing the
Master contactor with an SCR, you'd have to pull the battery cable to shut
off your "Master" SCR.
Not too convenient.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
I've been watching this thread for a bit and thought I'd add a couple of
notes.
1) I did do the heated skin thing. They came out very nice using that
method. I have no idea how they'll do in the heat, though.
2) One thing that really caught my attention was the expansion of the
whole structure during temp changes. When I was working on the
wings, it was during the winter months. My garage isn't heated; so, I
got to see the reactions to those mornings when the temps went from
below freezing to the fifties. I kept noticing things that I had measured
early in the morning would be off later in the day, such as the jig
alignments. It was driving me nuts because I knew I had adjusted
everything just right. Finally, it dawned on me to track it one day. I saw
the spars lengthen by as much as 1/8"! No wonder I couldn't keep
things right on! I was fighting a moving target! So, when I did the
skins, I heated only the skin in the area I was riveting. It must have
worked. Besides, the heat off the skins was nice in that cold building!
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (Installing flaps. Engine parts on their way!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
Because thats what he asked for - but if it makes you feel better thats what
I'll do,
didn't know Mother was watching.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
Thank God
Someone said it, I flew a Beach Dutchess for a while, maby 60 or 70 hours
before I purchased my Seneca - and thats all you did with the flaps, hold the
button and count to 3 for 15 degrees, Why would you want to go through all
that to know where the Flaps
are, Ribbon Cable Timers, just more stuff that can o wrong at the wrong time
Fly the Plane.!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
Hi Scott:
Thanks for the Tip on the Heated Wing Skins & more important the one on the
A&P's and RV's, the local DAR had pretty much the same to say about the
repair people, they are not builders.
No I am not an A&P and I am building in the North East and the Wing Kit just
left Vans
on the 23rd of December, I am in a T Hangar that is only heated when we are
working.
I was thinking of putting a heated blanket over the Wings to keep them at
about 60 degrees & then could raise the temp when I am in the Hangar,
But you explained it well, and I thank you for it, its guys like you and the
rest of the guys on the list, that help the novice builder's like me.
So I may get laughed at but guess what. I,m a gonna HEAT MY SKINS ( TOP ) per
your advice.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
Hi Scott:
What method is used to heat the Skins etc, will he electric blanket thing
work to keep the Wing a uniform temp. and then as the temp in the hangar goes
up everthing should be at the same temp.
The heat guns 150Thousand BTU - get the place up to about 70 in 20 Minutes.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
>While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
>master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
>but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
>see what "those who know" have to say.
Any chance that you have mixed up your master and starter solinoid?
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1101.7AB28040
>> Before I start riveting, should I heat the wing skins. Thinking about
using
> the
> Reiff wing skin heater.
----------
I think heating the wing skins has it's place, but more important is to put
on the top wing skins on first. If you fail to do so it is possible to end
up with slight depressions in the skin between each rib. This is caused by
having to peal the skin back to reach inside to rivet. As you do this the
skin tends distort at the rib you have the skin clecoed to. You definitely
do not want this on your top skins! If you are going to have to do this, it
is better to do it on the bottom of the wing. I blindly followed Vans
manual for the sequence of installing wing skins a have regretted it every
since, regretted to the point that I am considering reskinning the top of
one of my wings.
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1101.7AB28040
>> Before I start riveting, =
should I heat the wing skins. Thinking about using
> =
the
> Reiff wing skin heater.
----------
I think heating the =
wing skins has it's place, but more important is to put on the top wing =
skins on first. If you fail to do so it is possible to end up with =
slight depressions in the skin between each rib. This is caused by =
having to peal the skin back to reach inside to rivet. As you do this =
the skin tends distort at the rib you have the skin clecoed to. You =
definitely do not want this on your top skins! If you are going to have =
to do this, it is better to do it on the bottom of the wing. I blindly =
followed Vans manual for the sequence of installing wing skins a have =
regretted it every since, regretted to the point that I am considering =
reskinning the top of one of my wings.
------=_NextPart_000_01BD1101.7AB28040--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing light decision |
<<
Randy Lervold wrote:
> I plan on installing one in each wing and am leaning toward the BAC kits
> because:
> A) they use standard aircraft landing lights
Randy, I went with Olds because he uses "standard" automobile lights...I
think they're preferable to standard aircraft landing lights...am I
wrong?
Will Cretsinger
Arlington, TX
-6A now working the tilt canopy
>>
Randy,
I used the Olds landing lights in my RV-4. In five years of flying, I never
had a blown landing light. A friend used the RMD with "standard aircraft
landing lights" and replaced three bulbs in three years. I'm not putting down
the RMD system, because it is of very high quality. All I am saying is that
every time he left the parts counter at the FBO, he was not very happy
($$$$$$$$). Anyway, I have installed two of the Duckworks lights in the wings
of my RV-8. They seem to be lighter than the Olds lights (which I was very
pleased with).
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
Panel finished, engine mounted, waiting on more of the finish kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
I understood Tracy Sailor has a copper tape antenna glassed into the aft
edge of the fiberglass gear leg covers. It seems to work for him. It
doesn't follow theory on what little I learned while getting a Tech. amateur
radio lic. But for small investment it will take I'm going to try it. I
have the plumbing for the coat hanger ant. in the wing tip if it fails. If
anyone know Tracy they might ask him what magic he did if anything to make
it ignor theory.
The best Holidays ever to you and yours.
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
Just my 2 cents worth, has anyone checked the VSWR on the com antenas in the
gear struts & farrings with a good SWR meter like a Bird etc. That should
tell you how good its doing real fast.
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
Wing Kit on the Truck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
>> >While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
>> >master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
Craig
You may have a gremlin like I had.
My master would get hot enough so as to be very very uncomfortable to hold
your finger on it. And then, after a shut off, it took about 10-15 minutes
cool down period before it would re-engage. The first time it happened, I
thought the battery had gone dead on me. I didn't know it was happening
until one day I forgot to put the flaps down before shut off, when attempted
to cut it on - nothing. After a few cups of coffee, tried it again,
thinking I would need a hand crank or so, but it worked fine. The more I
checked on it, the more concerned I became.
There were many discussions in the local FBO room as to why. A starter one
(intermittent duty), a el cheapo auto switch, mounted upside down, too much
resistance through the switch itself rather than the solenoid, that I had
wired it wrong, that its' capacity was not great enough (I tried from 75 up
to 200) etc etc. Lots of opinions. To make a long story short, I have a
permanent crease in the small of my back caused by the spar, and one in the
back of my head caused by the brake pedal, from all the time I spent under
there checking stuff. I attempted 3 more 'master' (continuous duty)
solenoids and they all did the same. I did all of the resistance check etc
stuff. Finally, the FBO said he had one on the salvage piper he had, to
try it. I did, and no problem from that point on.
What caused it? damned if I know. I had flown it as long as 2.5 hours
before I knew it was heating up. The only time it was a problem was if I
attempted to turn it on immediately after shut down. It took a cool off
time that varied with length of on time and outside temp.
But that salvaged Piper Archer corrected it.
My recommendation: find a crashed Piper Archer that is stored out in the
mesquite trees of Texas and has been there for about 10 years, steal the
master switch off of it, and install it in your plane.
I think the Piper had been out there long enough for the gremlin to starve
to death.
Well, it's not a very short story after all.
Good luck and watch out for those creases in you back and head. Always have
a friend nearby that can pull you out of there by your feet.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc. |
<< I had numerous instances where the gauge would
stick. I also cleaned it out numerous times, breaking the glass at least
twice and scarring up the face, etc. It would work for a while and then do
the same thing. A friend of mine had the same problem with his. Not worth
the hassle and certainly not the price difference between it and an
overhauled, certified, "aircraft quality" gauge. >>
We have the same problem with the UMA suction gauge on the 55% Scale P-38
replica. The gauge needle sticks now and again. Also the case is plastic
with very fine threads. Easy to cross thread and break. If they weren't so
compact, they would have absolutely nothing going for them IMO.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
I have seen a number of RV's built with and without the heating and I see
little that I can point at to say the heated wings are tighter. It should have
some effect esp. for people building in cold climes. When my wings were built
it was summer in the south and thus my wings were quiet warm and I did attempt
to heat the top skins further with a heating blanket.They appear reasonably
tight. Suppose if I ever get the thing finished and out in the hot sun maybe
it will payoff. All in all I doubt it makes any real difference. I think the
advice given earlier about A&P's is in part true. Many are not the metal
craftsman that some RV builders are. Most, esp. those at repair facilities and
the airline bunch may have little knowledge about the finer points of
construction or with working with light skins. Their advice, however,on more
general subjects should not be disregarded lightly as it may be foolish to
dismiss the opinions of people who have many years of aviation exp. The A&P
should be thought of as a "Jack of all trades" while perhaps not expert in all
areas at least competant in most.JR, A&P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated wing skins |
----------
> From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Heated wing skins
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 1997 8:01 AM
> 2) One thing that really caught my attention was the expansion of the
> whole structure during temp changes. Finally, it dawned on me to track it
one day. I saw
> the spars lengthen by as much as 1/8"!
> Jim Sears
> RV-6A #22220 (Installing flaps. Engine parts on their way!)
When I first read this, I was certain that Jim had used a plastic tape with
a large thermal coefficient of expansion to make his measurement! The 1/8
inch expansion seemed huge! I calculated that a temperature excursion of
75 F degrees will expand the spar by 1/8 inch. Wow!
Now I have an iron-clad excuse for my mis-measurements: It was the
temperature swing that did it! Thanks for the excuse, Jim!
Dennis Persyk 6A turtle deck
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Rick,
Somebody else posted a responce that used a Motorola servo motor IC.
Whith this design, the flaps would go to the position the flap switch in
the cockpit was set at. Very much like the Cessna concept.... Certainly
would be more accurate than a timer...
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Guys (and gals),
You're all missing the point. I too have electrical flaps with just the
toggle switch and marks on the ailerons for position reminders. I also
have 1025 Hrs in just over four years on my -6A. I too like the simple
approach. BUT, I am a gadget freak also. Gadgets that are SAFE and spark
INTEREST in NEW CONCEPTS that add a little pizzazz, is what this thread
is all about. I put this innovation in the same class as some of the
stuff (that you'd all call NORMAL, EVERYDAY) in your panels..... Somebody
had to INVENT this stuff. Why couldn't it be somebody here on the list?
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!) (with gagets)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing light decision |
<34A1DB23.668B(at)arlington.net>
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
I used the Old's lights in both wings. I've just replaces one bulb after
1025 Hrs of flying (only the high beam was bad.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Light Aiming |
Does anyone have advice for the initial aiming of landing lights. I have the
RMDs in the wing tips and was looking for the voice of experience. My gut
tells me that with the a/c in normal approach attitude I want the beams down
about 3-4 degrees.
What is the pitch attitude of the RV-6A on approach? Is it a few degrees nose
high?
Also, should the beams converge about 1000 ft out or, if not, what is the
recommended distance.
I would like to get them close to start, then fine tune after night flying.
Thanks and Merry Christmas to you all. As a late Christmas present for you
building 6 sliders, why not spring $10 for my nifty Canopy Skirt Cap. Just a
reminder for you 11th hour Santas.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kique Morcillo" <ecastil(at)arrakis.es> |
| Subject: | Pilot and cabin measures... |
charset="us-ascii"
Hi all:
Thinking about start with a RV6A kit (another rivals are Glastar and Europa
XS), I have a "small" problem: I am 6,4 tall (1,94mts).
Anybody else with these "problem" and RV6 owner?
Sugestion...
Thanks in advance form Spain.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Pilot and cabin measures... |
----------
> From: Kique Morcillo <ecastil(at)arrakis.es>
> Thinking about start with a RV6A kit (another rivals are Glastar and
Europa
> XS), I have a "small" problem: I am 6,4 tall (1,94mts).
> Anybody else with these "problem" and RV6 owner?
> Sugestion...
> Thanks in advance form Spain.
Kique,
I am 6'4". I've flown the Glastar, Europa (std. version, not the XS), and
the RV-6. The Glastar had lots of room for tall people, the Europa was way
too small, the RV is somewhere between the two.
The modifications I will be doing to seat comfortably are the factory
modification to raise the canopy 1" in height, and move the rudder pedals
about 1 1/2 inches further forward and upward.
Not a real problem. Good luck...
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot and cabin measures... |
----------
> From: Rob Acker <n164ra(at)mindspring.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Fw: RV-List: Pilot and cabin measures...
> Date: Thursday, December 25, 1997 1:55 PM
>
> The modifications I will be doing to seat comfortably are the factory
> modification to raise the canopy 1" in height, ...
Rob,
Could you fill us in on the "factory mod" of 1 inch extra height? I'm only
5'9'' but I'd like an extra 1" of view over the cowl.
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A turtledeck
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | A-408 Aileron spar reenforcement |
I'm having trouble finding this part. Shown on the plans as 2 1/2x2 3/4
.040 2024-t3, I can't find either this, or anything of .040 thickness to
make it out of on my parts lists. Anybody know where this piece is?
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Puzzling over plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
A selsyn or synchro device. seems like some of you electronic types could make
one, not me as I am not an electronic type.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Landing Light Aiming |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Does anyone have advice for the initial aiming of landing lights. I
>have the
>RMDs in the wing tips and was looking for the voice of experience. My
>gut
>tells me that with the a/c in normal approach attitude I want the
>beams down
>about 3-4 degrees.
>
>What is the pitch attitude of the RV-6A on approach? Is it a few
>degrees nose
>high?
>
>Also, should the beams converge about 1000 ft out or, if not, what is
>the
>recommended distance.
>
>
I have an RV-6A also with the RMD lights. I did what is typically done
on certified aircraft when aiming mine and I have always been happy with
them.
I have the 2 lights configured so that one is a taxi light and one is a
landing light. From what I have seen is typical with RV's If you aim a
light for taxi it wont be very optimal for landing and vis versa.
This is even more pronounced on a taildragger RV-4,6,or 8.
With the tail down a properly aimed landing light is pointed out into the
night sky and doesn't light much of the taxiway/runway (one exception to
this seems to be the olds light kits or anything similar, since they use
an auto head lamp with light defusers molded into the glass it spreads
the light around a little more).
It is this reason that I think any builder expecting to do much night
flying should have 2 lights so that you can have good pilot manners and
not destroy the night vision of a fellow pilot when the full intensity of
your incorrectly aimed "taxi" light shines in his/her face.
My RV-6A is set up so that the taxi light hits the ground centered in
front of the airplane about 50 ft. ahead.
The landing light is aimed so that it points pretty much straight ahead
of the airplane centerline.
This way when on your approach/glide nose down it lights the runway with
the landing light, and as you round out through the flair the taxi light
takes over.
Works very well, and puts lots of light on the runway just before and
right at the moment of touchdown.
Then remember to turn off the landing light side as you leave the runway
environment.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
of the light intensity that is there is
not visible (some may say "but the reflector in the lamp is only designed
to project light in a focused direction anyway"). That's true, but from
what I have seen this is still a factor. Go to a fly-in and try it your
self if this may be of any concern to you.
The RMD installation doesn't have this problem.
No, I don't work for RMD; nor do I get any kind of benefit from promoting
his product (in fact if I build another RV I'nm not sure I will use the
RMD kit again).
I provide this for information only, hope its of interest to someone.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A-408 Aileron spar reenforcement |
<<
I'm having trouble finding this part. Shown on the plans as 2 1/2x2 3/4
..040 2024-t3, I can't find either this, or anything of .040 thickness to
make it out of on my parts lists. Anybody know where this piece is?
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Puzzling over plans
>>
Brian,
It has been a while since I was at that point, but it seems like all of those
reenforcements were sealed in plastic bags. Easy to overlook.
Louis Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pilot and cabin measures... |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
writes:
>
>
>Hi all:
>
>Thinking about start with a RV6A kit (another rivals are Glastar and
>Europa
>XS), I have a "small" problem: I am 6,4 tall (1,94mts).
>Anybody else with these "problem" and RV6 owner?
>Sugestion...
>Thanks in advance form Spain.
>
>
Ken and Tom, both demo pilots at Van's, are 6'3" and 6'4" respectively
and fly the demo RV-6A regularly no problem and it has no modifications.
There are minor mods that can be done to gain small increases in leg room
and height.
There are some major mods that could be done for both also but I
doubt that you would need them.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV 4 Pat A <RV4PatA(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 firewall |
In a message dated 12/24/97 6:39:53 PM, you wrote:
>I need a little confidence on my RV-4, firewall vertical positioning.
Wayne,
When I did mine, I lined the firewall angle up to the dimension on the
plan.
I don't think the thickness of the skin and flange make any difference. Any
other opinions?
Pat Allender
RV4PatA(at)aol.com
Finishing fuse.- slowly
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brake pedal angle |
| From: | rvsixer(at)juno.com (michael d hilger) |
><< Furthermore,
> add up all the play in the bolted joints in the system and, well, you
>get
> the idea... >>
>
>Play? We've got no stinking play, mon. We ream carefully to an RC1
>class of
>fit in all our bolted pivots.
>
>-GV
Gary,
Are YOU building a space shuttle?
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Light Aiming |
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
>
> >Does anyone have advice for the initial aiming of landing lights. I
> >have the
> >RMDs in the wing tips and was looking for the voice of experience. My
> >gut
> >tells me that with the a/c in normal approach attitude I want the
> >beams down
> >about 3-4 degrees.
> >
> >What is the pitch attitude of the RV-6A on approach? Is it a few
> >degrees nose
> >high?
> >
> >Also, should the beams converge about 1000 ft out or, if not, what is
> >the
> >recommended distance.
> >
> >
> I have an RV-6A also with the RMD lights. I did what is typically done
> on certified aircraft when aiming mine and I have always been happy with
> them.
> I have the 2 lights configured so that one is a taxi light and one is a
> landing light. From what I have seen is typical with RV's If you aim a
> light for taxi it wont be very optimal for landing and vis versa.
> This is even more pronounced on a taildragger RV-4,6,or 8.
> With the tail down a properly aimed landing light is pointed out into the
> night sky and doesn't light much of the taxiway/runway (one exception to
> this seems to be the olds light kits or anything similar, since they use
> an auto head lamp with light defusers molded into the glass it spreads
> the light around a little more).
> It is this reason that I think any builder expecting to do much night
> flying should have 2 lights so that you can have good pilot manners and
> not destroy the night vision of a fellow pilot when the full intensity of
> your incorrectly aimed "taxi" light shines in his/her face.
>
> My RV-6A is set up so that the taxi light hits the ground centered in
> front of the airplane about 50 ft. ahead.
> The landing light is aimed so that it points pretty much straight ahead
> of the airplane centerline.
> This way when on your approach/glide nose down it lights the runway with
> the landing light, and as you round out through the flair the taxi light
> takes over.
> Works very well, and puts lots of light on the runway just before and
> right at the moment of touchdown.
> Then remember to turn off the landing light side as you leave the runway
> environment.
>
> Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
My friend has a Mooney TLS Bravo, each wing has two lights one for
taxi, one for landing. does anyone make a lighting system like this
for RV's?
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
>Because thats what he asked for - but if it makes you feel better thats what
>I'll do,
>didn't know Mother was watching.
Dear ???,
If I remember correctly (happens less and less frequently) someone must
have made a comment to you about responding to the bookstore item. Some
people are more gentle than others when "offering guidance". I think the
point is to remind listers that, when a post obviously requires a personal
response, that listers do not post to the list. Sometimes, I will put the
reminder "please post privately" or "please respond off-list" when I send a
list message. I have often posted privately to list messages when I'm
fairly certain that my response has very limited interest or is suited only
to the individual who wrote.
The bookstore post obviously called for "off-list" communications as the
rest of the list probably isn't interested in your (or anyone else's)
response. I think the main thing to remember is that every line posted on
the lists goes into the archive, which by now is reaching mammoth
proportions. So, the thing to remember is, when you hit reply, delete the
rv-list(at)matronics.com from the TO: line and then copy the address you want
to send your reply to and paste it into the TO: field.
Along this line, posting "me, too" , "way to go" and other one-liner type
messages to the list take up space and wastes reader's time. I always try
to send personal congrats, like when someone gets airborne, personally. In
other words, off list (if I remember the delete, copy and paste routine.)
I'm certainly not advocating a strictly technical type list. I get a real
kick out of the humor of some of you guys, like the tyros from Texas and the
crass-commercializer from CA:)
Besides taking up archive space (essentially furnished for free by Matt)
some of us may not remember that alot of listers have to pay for messages.
We don't all have unlimited interenet time.
There are a lot of "old timers" on the list but I've noticed that some of
their postings are becoming few and far between. They've been on the list
for several years and have seen the same questions being asked over and
over. It might tend to make some of them (us) grumpy but we have to realize
that there are new people on the list all of the time and they have the same
questions as we had when we started out. So, sometimes, they get a little
grumpy when they perceive useless banter. Try to humor them if you can.
Builder's of flying RVs are a great resource. Try to keep as many of them
around as you can.
Another RV-list tip: please sign your name on your posts. This really is
a great group and there have been many friendships made on the list over the
years. It's nice to know who you are responding to.
Happy holidays to all you RVers. It's been a pleasure to be part of the
list and to have built the best bargin in kit aircraft. Thanks, Matt and Van.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A-408 Aileron spar reenforcement |
Brian Huffaker wrote:
>
> I'm having trouble finding this part. Shown on the plans as 2 1/2x2 3/4
> .040 2024-t3, I can't find either this, or anything of .040 thickness to
> make it out of on my parts lists. Anybody know where this piece is?
Mine were four pieces in a single bag; I forget the bag number.
However, there were no other parts like them. This from an RV-6 wing
kit ordered 14 months ago.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | re Master solenoid |
> re msg dated 12/24/97 8:08:34 PM one wrote "Noticed the master realy was
getting very hot . . .
> Another replied "Mine gets hot at same rate."
I wonder about two things: First, do master solenoids of factory built
Cessnas, etc, also get hot because they also have low 17ohm resistence and
therefore 2/3 amp steady current draw (approx 12 volts div by approx 18
ohms resist. = 2/3) when holding master contacts closed?
Second: Is there a "solid state" alternative to the "master switch/master
relay" design? I.e., what amperage can a Silicon Controlled Rectifier
(SCR) carry? Enough for solid state radios and fuel pumps? My maint folks
("Sgt Engineers") used SCRs in a locally designed test gadget in the Air
Force because they had "high" current capacity.
If one SCR can't carry total load, then could a single master switch
activate "several" SCRs so that each carried a part of the total aircraft
systems load?
David Carter, RV-6 (building tail feathers), Nederland, TX
dcarter(at)datarecall.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot and cabin measures... |
<< Could you fill us in on the "factory mod" of 1 inch extra height? I'm only
5'9'' but I'd like an extra 1" of view over the cowl. >>
I did this also and it is quite straightforward on the slider. Van's will
send you the printed info.
Basically you move the rollover bar forward about 1.5" and raise it about 1/4"
on spacers. I toed-in the parallel rollover bar feet by fluting because the
farther fwd you go, the fuselage starts necking down. Then you must jack up
the roller brackets (I even had some extra steel welded on because the
mounting holes were too close to the ends) on the canopy weldment. When
fitting the canopy plexiglas you need to take a slim pie cut out of each side
to account for this dimensional change but the result is worth it if you are
tall and have taller friends. I'm hoping to give Brooke Shields and Mira
Sorvino rides someday (well, I can dream can't I).
I have 41" of vertical height from seat pan to inside of canopy crest.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re Master solenoid |
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe) |
writes:
>I wonder about two things: First, do master solenoids of factory
>built Cessnas, etc, also get hot because they also have low 17ohm
resistence
>and therefore 2/3 amp steady current draw (approx 12 volts div by approx
>18 ohms resist. = 2/3) when holding master contacts closed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if some of the heat may be coming from the contacts themselves.
It might be that the alignment of the internal contacts is so poor that
there is enough resistance between the contacts to cause heating here as
well.
>Second: Is there a "solid state" alternative to the "master
>switch/master relay" design? I.e., what amperage can a Silicon
Controlled
>Rectifier (SCR) carry? Enough for solid state radios and fuel pumps?
My maint
>folks ("Sgt Engineers") used SCRs in a locally designed test gadget in
the
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can get SCRs that can handle currents into the thousands of amperes,
but don't expect the design of such a solid-state switching device to be
simple - there are lots and lots of gotchas just waiting to get you in
this type of circuit design.
>If one SCR can't carry total load, then could a single master switch
activate "several" SCRs so >that each carried a part of the total
aircraft systems load?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely. But current sharing is another one of those gotcha areas
when designing with these devices. In other words, you can't just put
them in parallel and expect them to share the load equally. Typically
you have to force current sharing by external means due to slight
differences between devices with the same ratings and/or the same part
numbers (additional circuitry and complexity). In addition, in a purely
DC circuit you will have to chose a method to turn off (commutate) your
SCR, since, as someone already pointed out, an SCR is a latching-type of
device. It can be done, but it requires even more circuitry. You will
also have to determine whether there is any chance that the current in
this circuit could be interupted or reversed, even for only 30
microseconds or so, because this could turn your SCR off unless your
circuit design provides for bidirectional current flow.
There are other solid-state power switching devices which might be better
suited for an application such as this. IGBTs (a type of transistor) for
example are also high gain devices with current ratings into the hundreds
of amperes. Even so, IMHO you will be hard-pressed to beat the cost,
simplicity, and overall reliability of the traditional method.
FWIW, it appears to me at first blush that a properly designed
solid-state replacement for the traditional master switch/contactor
circuit would be too complex and expensive to make it worth the effort.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)IBM.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: A-408 Aileron spar reenforcement |
Brian, I too puzzeled over this. I was looking for a .040 piece of metal
to cut. I finally found four pieces of the .040 2 1/2 x 2 3/4 in bag
419.
Hope you find yours there.....
Fran Malczynski
RV6 (Wings)
Olcott, NY
Brian Huffaker wrote:
>
>
> I'm having trouble finding this part. Shown on the plans as 2 1/2x2 3/4
> .040 2024-t3, I can't find either this, or anything of .040 thickness to
> make it out of on my parts lists. Anybody know where this piece is?
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
> President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
> RV-8 80091 Puzzling over plans
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for |
stick on trim stripes ?
Scott, try calling some sign shops. Some of them have some great stuff
ran by computers. Their stuff is used outdoors to.
cecil
writes:
>
>My RV6A is currently all white and I would like to add some color to
>it.
>
>Does anybody know where I could order or get some trim stripes I could
>press
>onto my plane.
>
>I was thinking if I could get a red and blue strip each about an inch
>or so
>wide and 20 feet long I could put some trim stripes on the fuselage.
>
>I wonder how good they would stick at 200 MPH.
>
>Anyway, if I can't find any stick ons, I'll have to resort to
>painting.
>
>Thanks in advance for any ideas.
>
>
>
>Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cafgef <Cafgef(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AN Flare to Pipe Adapters |
<< The other day I bought an Aeroquip Performance Products catalog and
discovered
a connector that I had not previously seen in any aviation fittings listing.
These are Steel Female Connectors that go from male AN Flare to female pipe
threads. >>
Before anyone else buys a catalog, They give them away at some speed shops(
read hotrod). Also the speed shops will have the whole selection of fitting in
steel and aluminum.
Gene Francis - Replacing a selector switch in my EGT/CHT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re Master solenoid |
In a message dated 12/26/97 7:58:55 AM, you wrote:
>FWIW, it appears to me at first blush that a properly designed
>solid-state replacement for the traditional master switch/contactor
>circuit would be too complex and expensive to make it worth the effort.
I vaguely remember seeing a Mooney master switch which was mostly solid state
, i e a sliding knife switch which was push/pulled by a bowden cable. This
looks like a great solution to me. Has anyone done this? Maybe you could use
one of those 'isolation or 'security' battery switches from J C Whitney?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot and cabin measures... |
> From: Dennis Persyk <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
> Rob,
> Could you fill us in on the "factory mod" of 1 inch extra height? I'm
only
> 5'9'' but I'd like an extra 1" of view over the cowl.
Dennis,
I have not done the mod yet, but have done some preliminary measurements.
My understanding is it works only on the newer style canopy as they have
more material on the front.
My plans came with a sheet describing moving the rollbar forward 1-2",
which raises the canopy (the rear remains in the standard position, the
front gets raised up....making for about 1" more room at seat position.).
The text actually says 1/2", but the associated drawing shows 2"...since
1/2" would not make hardly any difference I assume they mean 1-2". Can
anybody whos done this mod comment (before I screw up my canopy )?
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re Master solenoid |
<< I vaguely remember seeing a Mooney master switch which was mostly solid
state
, i e a sliding knife switch which was push/pulled by a bowden cable. This
looks like a great solution to me. Has anyone done this? Maybe you could
use
one of those 'isolation or 'security' battery switches from J C Whitney? >>
Cole-Hersee (sold thru trucking supplies outlets) has a relatively new
latching contactor (P/N 24200) that requires no continuous power to hold it
closed. A simple momentary switch action will close the 110A continuous rated
contacts, they will remain closed until another action from the same switch
will open them. It requires less than 3.5A to operate the latch. This might
help some of you as it is about the same size as the standard contactors.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trim st
> Does anybody know where I could order or get some trim stripes I could
> press onto my plane.
There is a company in Greeley, Colorado called Aerographics. They doe "OEM"
and replacement decals for all the biggies in aviation. I'm not affiliated
with them in any way. The owner of the company recently put on a nice
presentation at our local EAA chapter meeting. They seem very willing and
excited about working with homebuilders.
Info. as follows:
Aerographics
Greeley/Weld County Airport
610 Buss Avenue
Greeley, Colorado 80631
(800)336-9633
(970)356-8800
(970)356-8850 (fax)
Dee Neiman, Owner
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [Elevators finished today!! woo, wooh!]
"The second-slowest RV-8 builder in history, right EB!"
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re Master solenoid |
>
>
><< I vaguely remember seeing a Mooney master switch which was mostly solid
>state i.e. a sliding knife switch which was push/pulled by a bowden cable.
This
> looks like a great solution to me. Has anyone done this? Maybe you could
>use one of those 'isolation or 'security' battery switches from J C
Whitney? >>
Many sport auto racing jurisdictions required a main battery disconnect
switch to assist rescuers need to eliminate electrical hazards while
working an accident. A number of my RV builders have elected to use this
type of switch in lieu of a battery master contactor . . . it can be
easily reached from the pilot's seat.
Question: can it be easily reached by someone standing outside on the
wing -or- by someone working to extracate your buns after peeling away
your canopy?
One builder told me of his modification of the operating handle to allow
attachement of a bowden control so that the "battery master" control was
in it's customary place on the panel but didn't require electrical power to
keep it closed.
This is an interesting alternative to the isolatable essential bus
architecture we've been recommending . . . IF you have control of everything
attached to the bus. I.e., one can drop to a very low, essential goodies
only,
operating mode in case of alternator failure.
>Cole-Hersee (sold thru trucking supplies outlets) has a relatively new
>latching contactor (P/N 24200) that requires no continuous power to hold it
>closed. A simple momentary switch action will close the 110A continuous
rated
>contacts, they will remain closed until another action from the same switch
>will open them. It requires less than 3.5A to operate the latch. This might
>help some of you as it is about the same size as the standard contactors.
"Latching" devices have failuremodes that negate your ability to turn
the power off at will . . . . the clasic battery contactor's common
failures are all passive (power off) while a latching device has
active failure (power on) modes.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
m>
>
>What if you used a timer/switch arrangement. Let's say, for example,
>full flap extension took 9 seconds and you wanted 3 flap positions.
>Every time you bumped the flap switch it started the flap traveling and
>simultaneously a 3 second timer. At the end of 3 seconds, the timer
>times out and stops flap extension.
Probably close enough for gov'm't work. With the bus voltage regulated
buy the alternator, flap extension versus time would be reasonably
consistent.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: re Master solenoid |
Hi all,
I'm just now wondering about the possibility of a simple automotive type battery
master switch - the kind that attach to the battery and are hand operated.
Since the battery is so close etc.
I hear what Electric Bob says about arcing but when master is switched isn't
nearly all power off anyway?
This way would:
1 Save weight
2 Save money
3 Reduce complexity
What would be the downside of it??
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- "Peace on earth, good will to all RV builders"
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> I vaguely remember seeing a Mooney master switch which was mostly solid state
> , i e a sliding knife switch which was push/pulled by a bowden cable.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
>While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
>master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
>but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
>see what "those who know" have to say.
>It takes about 5-7 min for it to get hot. If I need to change it
>now would be the time.
How hot is "very hot"? A continuous duty rated contactor will
have a resistance of 15-20 ohms and draw as much a .9 amps with
the alternator running. This translates into about 12 watts of
continuous heat that the contactor must reject though it's case
and mounting feet . . . this CAN be too warm to hold your hand
on but not dangerous for the contactor.
Some folk have inadvertently used intermittant duty contactors
as battery contactors (they're much lower resistance on the order
of 3-7 ohms) and will distroy themselves when used for anything other
than starter contactors. If you've had yours on for more than
ten minutes and it's still alive, it's obviously a continous
duty rated device.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Electric flap problem |
I'm tossing this one out to Van's support and the RV-listers.
I've just started installing the electric flaps on my -6A. I've drawn the
line 9.5" in front of the F605 web, trimmed the EF-601 to fit, clamped
the WD617 canopy latch weldment in place to check clearances,
and made a trial fit of the EF601/EF603 to the F605C. When I line
up the bottom of the EF601 to the 9.5" line, I can't fit the EF601 to
the F605C flange well enough to get a good overlap for rivets due to
the WD617's getting in the way. I've made sure the WD617 is at the
3 1/16" mark per the canopy drawing. It looks like I have to add
about 1/2, or so, width to the flange on the F605C to get anywhere
close to making it fit and clear the WD617. Has anyone else had
this problem?
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
>I understood Tracy Sailor has a copper tape antenna glassed into the aft
>edge of the fiberglass gear leg covers. It seems to work for him. It
>doesn't follow theory on what little I learned while getting a Tech. amateur
>radio lic. But for small investment it will take I'm going to try it. I
>have the plumbing for the coat hanger ant. in the wing tip if it fails. If
>anyone know Tracy they might ask him what magic he did if anything to make
>it ignor theory.
We make an antenna analyzer availble for tweaking
the non standard installations. See:
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/catalog.html>
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas r. jones" <tom144(at)theonramp.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
How about a potentiometer on the flap mechanism . . . to drive
a flap position indicator . . . and then two LM311 comparators,
surplus, minature panel meter.
Sounds like a good idea. I've used the voltage comparator from Radio
Shack's
Engineering book for positioning servos. It allows you to have multiple
preset positions
with a minimum of wires. Each position is chosen with toggle switches or
rotary such as used with a multi cylinder EGT. You can also have a direct
override of the electronics with a simple bat switch. This was many years
ago where we built the circuits before some of these nice chips. I'm not
familiar with the 'LM311' comparators, but it sounds like a simple way of
doing it.
ce to make it about 1/8 higher).
Will the edge distance improve (without introducing distortions) if I make
the cutout before fitting or do I need a wider F674? I'd appreciate
comments from those who have been there.
Thanks!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flap problem Part II |
I've gotten the F601 channel in pretty good shape, now; but, the F601
channel prohibits the flap weldment from moving through more than a
25 degree arc. The weldment will have to be trimmed some where the
weldment is attached to the flap motor. I'm not sure how much will be
enough to do it. Again, it's the WD617 that's in the way of everything.
There just isn't any room to work with because the WD617 is so close
to the F605. How much arc will I need. Seems we use 30 degrees of
flaps? I may be able to get that much without filing to much off the
end of the weldment. Maybe 1/8" will do it. Boy, things sure are tight!
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6ToBuild <RV6ToBuild(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flap problem Part II |
I am working on fitting the flap actuator into my RV6A also. I see the same
problem of getting the unit in and still have a canopy latch. I haven't found
the magic combination to make it all fit yet, but I am working on it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Electric flap problem |
What I did on mine was to add a 1/8" spacer between EF-601 and EF-603 at the
upper end. This resulted in enough clearance from the Wd-617 without adding
any flange width and still keeping the attach screws through EF-603 accessible
. I riveted the spacer to EF-601 after installing platenuts on the backside
for easier installation and removal. Don't know if this will solve your
situation or not, but it seems that it is about like mine was.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
I've just started installing the electric flaps on my -6A. I've drawn the
line 9.5" in front of the F605 web, trimmed the EF-601 to fit, clamped
the WD617 canopy latch weldment in place to check clearances,
and made a trial fit of the EF601/EF603 to the F605C. When I line
up the bottom of the EF601 to the 9.5" line, I can't fit the EF601 to
the F605C flange well enough to get a good overlap for rivets due to
the WD617's getting in the way. I've made sure the WD617 is at the
3 1/16" mark per the canopy drawing. It looks like I have to add
about 1/2, or so, width to the flange on the F605C to get anywhere
close to making it fit and clear the WD617. Has anyone else had
this problem?
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | F674 Edge Distance (Tip-Up) |
Dennis, if you go ahead and make the cutout at least 1" undersize (per some
previous postings) and then fit the skin, I think you will find that it will
fit a lot better. The height of the F-631 cabin frame is irrelevant as it
does not determine where the skin rests. It does happen to be a lot higher
than a line projected from the tops of the F-606 and F-607 bulkheads so if
your laying the F-674 skin on it, that will definitely cause a fitting
problem.
I am building a 6A tip-up canopy and have just strapped the F674 Aft Top
Skin to bulkheads F606 and F607 as well as to the F631 Cabin Frame. I
have NOT made the cut-out yet, thinking this would minimize distortion (
and George Orndorf didn't make the cut-out in his video).
In its un-cut-out state the overhang over the top longerons at the forward
end is only 3/8 inch. I loose 1/8 inch due to longeron thickness so I do
not have enough edge distance. The edge distance increases linearly
towards the rear, becoming acceptable about 12 inches forward of the aft
end.
My slant-height distance from longeron top surface to cabin frame top is 17
15/16 inches (17 7/8 per plans but I was advised by Van's Builder's
assistance to make it about 1/8 higher).
Will the edge distance improve (without introducing distortions) if I make
the cutout before fitting or do I need a wider F674? I'd appreciate
comments from those who have been there.
Thanks!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Batteries and Starters |
In the rvator articles circa 1992 there was one about installing a 17AH
gell cell battery in Vans
's RV. I elected to go this route so that I could mount the battery on
the foreward side of the firewall. I have installed one of the
lightweight starters advertised in numerous publications under the
heading "HOMEBUILDERS LOOK''. The starter will not spin the engine fast
enough to start. I have a newly rebuilt H2AD (9:1 compression ratio). I
am using #4 cables. If I jumper from my truck the starter spins fast
enough. Sounds like I need a stronger battery but before I do that, does
anyone have any experience with this battery and/or starter or any other
words of wisdom?
John Henley (grihen(at)juno.com)
Almost ready for inspection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
Larry P wrote:
> The trouble is it would not be just the gearleg, it would be the whole
> airplane as the gear is securely bolted to same.
>
Now, that all depends on where you place the feed point, doesn't it. The mass
of metal on the back side of a shunt feed has little practical effect on
resonance. Another way of saying this is that DC grounding a shunt-fed
antenna is not only not de-tuning; it's inherent in the design. But if you're
new to antennas, it certainly "looks wrong."
".......securely bolted to same...??" We certainly hope so; otherwise
Landings might not equal Takeoffs!
On a related note, KB2DU wrote:
has anyone checked the VSWR on the com antenas in the
gear struts & farrings with a good SWR meter like a Bird etc. That should
tell you how good its doing real fast.
I disagree. A dummy load shows a very respectable VSWR but doesn't get out
very well. (Okay, so I DID call CQ once when using a 100w lightbulb to test a
tube transmitter and had a guy answer me from several states away) If the
antenna is a good match to the feedline and the transmitter, well and good;
the other half of the store is radiation efficiency and pattern, matters on
which a SWR meter is absolutely mute.
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries and Starters |
> From: grihen(at)juno.com
> enough to start. I have a newly rebuilt H2AD (9:1 compression ratio).
John,
I can't help you with your question, but noticed you have an H2AD. Could
you share what you did for engine baffling (i.e. start from scratch, modify
van's kit...)? Also, how big a "bump", if any, did you have to make for
fuel pump/cowl clearance?
Thanks,
Rob (RV-6Q w/H2AD).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J VanGrunsven" <rvforpla(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries and Starters |
I have been using a 18 amp hour battery for over 3 years now and have never
had any problem at all. My rv-4 has an o-360 with C.S. prop and the old
heavy lyc starter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick on |
trimstripes ?
----------
> From: Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Need Advice: Do they make colored vinyl/tape for stick
on trimstripes ?
> Date: Wednesday, December 24, 1997 1:35 AM
>
>
> For my entire paint scheme I am using Air Graphics of Madison. I met
these guys and gals at OSH and was fasinated with their quality. They have
the Vans series of aircraft on file and do everything from designing your
entire paint scheme to simply cutting your graphics. They can be reached
at (608) 845-1477 or fax at (608) 845-1478. I had them design my paint
scheme and it probably took 10 designs before I finally got what I was
looking for. The next step will be seeing it in color before having them
cut the vinyl. They assure me that installation will be a breeze and speed
will not be an issue. I believe they will do as much or as little as you
want. Give Gene a call and discuss your project.
Regards,
Charles Golden
N609CG RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for an RV-4 |
If anyone has a nice RV-4 for sale in Georga or Alabama, please let me
know. I'll be in Atlanta for three days, Jan.10-11-12. Thanks.
Louis Willig, (610) 668-4964
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flap problem |
> I've drawn the
> line 9.5" in front of the F605 web, trimmed the EF-601 to fit, clamped
> the WD617 canopy latch weldment in place to check clearances,
> and made a trial fit of the EF601/EF603 to the F605C. When I line
> up the bottom of the EF601 to the 9.5" line, I can't fit the EF601 to
> the F605C flange well enough to get a good overlap for rivets due to
> the WD617's getting in the way. I've made sure the WD617 is at the
> 3 1/16" mark per the canopy drawing. It looks like I have to add
> about 1/2, or so, width to the flange on the F605C to get anywhere
> close to making it fit and clear the WD617. Has anyone else had
> this problem?
Jim, I'm building the slider, so I don't have the WD617 and hence can't
help with that. However, I had to position the forward lower end of EF601
at 10" just to get the clearance necessary for the flap weldment yoke
(which attaches to the rod end on the actuator motor) as it swings through
its travel. Be sure to put the weldment in place to verify clearance in
this area.
Alex Peterson
6A finishing kit, Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick & Barb Osgood" <randbosgood(at)POP.A001.sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cost of kits for 1998 |
Has anyone heard what the price increase may be for 1998 on the
various kits. I am still working on the wings for my 6A and would
like to wait before Ipurchase the fuselage kit. If the price increase
is $50.00 then it may be worth the cost as I have limited storage
space. If the cost is $300.00 then I will buy it now.
Any feedback would help me make the decision.
Thanks
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
> >I have been watching this flap position indicator thread and wonder
> >why any of you want to make more work for your selves?
I have been watching this thread and noticed how the most complicated ideas
come from the "halfway thru the empennage" guys whereas the KISS theorists
seem to be actually flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | morristec(at)icdc.com |
I am at the stage of painting and have a question about the Registration
number size requirements. Part 45 of the FARs says that we can use 3"
if we stay in the country (US). What size do we need if we plan to fly
from the US to Canada?
Dan Morris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flap problem |
22>
>
>I'm tossing this one out to Van's support and the RV-listers.
>
>I've just started installing the electric flaps on my -6A. I've drawn the
>line 9.5" in front of the F605 web, trimmed the EF-601 to fit, clamped
>the WD617 canopy latch weldment in place to check clearances,
>and made a trial fit of the EF601/EF603 to the F605C. When I line
>up the bottom of the EF601 to the 9.5" line, I can't fit the EF601 to
>the F605C flange well enough to get a good overlap for rivets due to
>the WD617's getting in the way. I've made sure the WD617 is at the
>3 1/16" mark per the canopy drawing. It looks like I have to add
>about 1/2, or so, width to the flange on the F605C to get anywhere
>close to making it fit and clear the WD617. Has anyone else had
>this problem?
Jim,
... check the archives ... this is an old problem that Vans hasn't
fixed. Use "electric flap" "warning" "tilt-up" as key words ..:^) I drew
a scale drawing and found that a fuselage made to plans dimensions WILL
have this problem. (Read the support line "you're the third one this week
quote" ...:^)
You can lower the top of the front support channel a little where it meets
the F605 cross channel, but be careful that the 'swinging arm' of the flap
drive weldment doesn't hit the back of the support channel. The excess
steel in the U of this weldment that the flap motor bearing connects to can
be ground away a little for some extra clearance.
There doesn't seem to be anything magic about the 9.5" dimension ... try
making that a little larger, there is excess metal in the side panels.
The Wd-617 weldment can be moved _slightly_ forward to help (shim the
support blocks), but be careful that you don't hit the weldment with the
seat backs in their most rearward position. Again a small shim at the
F-605 cross piece can help move the seat back a little further forward --
some builders do this with a small UHMW plastic piece anyway since they
don't like the hitting of two painted pieces (the seat back and the F-605)
when the seat back is hinged backwards and forwards for baggage access.
Another option is to move this Wd-617 weldment both up and back a little ..
same warnings as above.
A combination of all of the above items seems to eventually make this area
work.
Gil (wish Vans would get his dimensions right) Alexander
PS you are lucky, if you buy the kits seperately, you don't have the Wd-617
weldment (it's in the finish kit) when you install the electric flaps and
seats ...
>
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical Power to Flight Instruments |
W B Ward wrote:
>
>
>
> Buzzard breath. BUZZARD BREATH?? How did you know??
>
> Sorry, but the smallest Douglas product I ever worked on, was a DC-3,
>That was and still is fine machine. In fact I belong to a group that has
a DC-3 and we've made it a flying museum.
> currently work the 10s and 11s, but Im not sure if their RATs are
> hydraulic or electric,
I have no knowledge of the systems on the DC-10/11 so it may be.
>
> The DC9, has an airborne operable APU doesnt it? Seems as I recall one of my
fellow employees who did work on them, mentioning something about
that.
That is correct. And it capable of being started in flight to provide
electrics.
> Speaking from curiosity only, and since you have first hand experience with them,
on the 767, how did they handle the failure modes, if you lost
a CRT? I know on the glass Douglas panels, they have a priroty
arrangement which automatically switches critical info to another CRT if
one goes toes up.
The B-767 has two models and different methods of addressing flight
instruments. The domestic version has only stand-by flight instruments
(powered from the battery buss) if all electrics are lost (including the
APU)that blackens the screens. The engine instruments are presented on a
standby instrument panel of its own. It gives Fuel Flow, EGT, EPR,or N1.
(depends on the engine PW or GE) However on the International model they
have an HMG (Hydraulic Motor Generator) which deploys if you have a total
electrical failure. It will provide power to the Captains side of EFIS
system and with the throw of a switch, power the Co-pilots side. But not
both at the same time.
I hope this answeres your question. And may I add that I like your sense
of humor in accepting my remark "Buzzard Breath"
If I can be of any further help Yell!!!
My Best,
Don
RV-6QB N767DC 90% Complete
O-360 C/S
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Pre Positioning Flaps |
> Very much like the Cessna concept.... Certainly
> would be more accurate than a timer...
Fred,
Why the accuracy? Van's mechanical design has positions "retracted",
"half" and "full". "Half" doesn't need to be very repeatable.The timer
seems like a good compromise.
On the other hand, I am toying with sacrificing one of my old model
aircraft servos by removing the motor and using the amplifier to
drive big transistors or a relay (to short the flap motor.... more
accuracy!) and feeding the flap actuator position back through the
servo output wheel and feedback pot. Puts it all in a convenient
package.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 doing the fiddly bits before engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flap problem Part II |
Thanks to the listers who responded. Your answers may have saved
my day. I'll try shortening the EF601 and maybe do some trimming on
the flap weldment. I'll also try moving the EF601 forward at the base. I
may also put the rear channel in place so I can see how much I can
move things before I get into trouble with my side panels.
I tried looking at the archive only to lose interest after a while of looking
at nothing that helped. The note to the list gets much quicker results.
A seach of the archives would be so much easier if our responses
didn't include all of the question. Of course, I admit it's much handier
for printing out if it does. :-(
Again, this is a design problem that's been going on for some time. I
have contacted Van's in the past with problems I've had only to find
out years later that the problems still exist. Personally, it doesn't make
sense to me to not take care of these design and parts allocation
problems because they all cost the company money due to time lost
answering our questions. I find it more important to fix spar hole drilling
problems in Phlogiston spars, electric flap fit, quality of parts, etc. than
to do some of the things like cutting out the lightening holes in the wing
ribs. Even though cutting out the holes takes time, it is straight forward
and doesn't need to be fixed due to a flawed part/design. Thank
goodness they have a great support team. They need one.
Just to name some I've encountered this year that aren't caused by my
lack of skills:
1. When I got my fuselage kit, I found that there was no cover plate
for the hole in the firewall if I didn't chose to do the recess box. I got
the recess box. Why not include the darned box, to start with?
2. The firewall came assembled. Nice time saver. Crooked. I had to
shim a bit to cover up the flaw. Didn't they use a jig?
2a. I almost forgot the step I had to return because it was welded off
center at the foot. I returned it when my wife saw the flaw without any
coaxing.
3. Parts in kits not identified well. Used parts for wrong things or made
up parts when I didn't need to.
4. Manual out of sequence. Could have caused some real problems
around the seat and baggage area if I had followed their directions on
the floors. It would also have helped to have had the rudder cable
instructions before that, too, since the cable must be run from the rear
first and not just around the baggage comparment. I had a heck of a
time getting the bushings back out. :-(
5. The flap system doesn't go in per the plans. Also, an extra part
thown in to throw us off. Hey, maybe I can use that part to cut up for
testing the fit! :-)
6. If one orders the metal prop instead of using wood, he has to buy an
extra spinner bulkhead. They are selling metal props, not wood ones!
Why not ask for the preference on the order sheet and send the
correct bulkheads?
7. I got the new cowl. Nice. No instructions for it in the finishing kit.
When I got them, I could see there would be a lot of guessing going on
in my future.
8. Plans are very hard to read. Thank goodness I'm a builder who's
been at it for a while. I have a complete set that I got some time ago. I
have to go back to them regularly to get dimensions and such.
I know there are others; but, these are all I can think of right now. I do
know from recent notes that I'm going to have fun with the elevator
pushrod fit at the weldment. It doesn't seem to fit either! And I was
hoping to have my RV flying by mid-1998. Maybe not.
Gotta go. Thanks for letting me vent my frustrations. Maybe Scott can
take some of these problems back to the shop with him. The RV-6A is
going to be around for some time to come. They could do some fixes
on them before coming out with a RV-8A?
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (Frustrated, again.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reg number size |
What size do we need if we plan to fly
>from the US to Canada?
>
>Dan Morris
*All I have heard from flying up there is 3" is fine.
Happy Building In 1998!
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DFaile <DFaile(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reg number size |
<< Part 45 of the FARs says that we can use 3"
if we stay in the country (US). What size do we need if we plan to fly
from the US to Canada? >>
Dan,
Three inch will do for Canada, however, you do need authorization to fly a
homebuilt into or over Canada. You can get that very easily and by FAX. They
usually give you a window of time for your Canada flight and some restrictions
(such as no night VFR and no VFR on top). If you need the process, let me know
and I can send you the infor by email or snail mail.
The 3" numbers usually look so much better on a homebuilt. Oh, by the way, if
your speed is going to be above 200, large numbers are in order. I am working
with a builder who was required to change to large numbers (not an RV) because
of his speed.
david faile, fairfield ct
CFII/A&P
Christen Eagle since '82
RV6 started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Pictures & Inspections |
What should I be taking pictures of as I build and how many?
When do I have to have different assemblies inspected? Do I have to have
the H/S skeleton inspected before closing with the skin? ETC.
Bill Pagan
-8A empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flap problem |
>
>
> I've just started installing the electric flaps on my -6A.
> It looks like I have to add
> about 1/2, or so, width to the flange on the F605C to get anywhere
> close to making it fit and clear the WD617. Has anyone else had
> this problem?
>
> Jim Sears
> RV-6A #22220
>
Yes. Another case of do what is necessary to make it fit. Mine didn't
come close to fitting the way it was supposed to. I had to make the
diagonal piece connect way further back at the top and had to make
the piece much longer to clear the steel arm as it moves.
Larry Pardue
RV-6Q Cabin Frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
Bill,
To answer your last question first, you do not have to have any "pre-cover"
inspections done on your RV. Yes, you do need to take pictures and keep a
written log of your work. I try to take pictures of pretty much everything
that goes into the innards of my RV at some point. I number these pictures
in a photo album. In my construction log, I number the entry that
corresponds to that picture. The other thing that I try to do is to make
sure that at least one picture from each assemble shows my shop in the
background. With the FAA cracking down on "hired gun" builders, it seems
to me that this is a good way to prove to the feds that I built my own.
Hope this helps.
Joe Rex
----------
> From: pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Pictures & Inspections
> Date: Saturday, December 27, 1997 7:39 AM
>
>
> What should I be taking pictures of as I build and how many?
>
> When do I have to have different assemblies inspected? Do I have to have
> the H/S skeleton inspected before closing with the skin? ETC.
>
> Bill Pagan
> -8A empennage
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
>
>
> Larry P wrote:
>
> > The trouble is it would not be just the gearleg, it would be the whole
> > airplane as the gear is securely bolted to same.
> >
> Now, that all depends on where you place the feed point, doesn't it. The mass
> of metal on the back side of a shunt feed has little practical effect on
> resonance.
Well I did consider this but am still somewhat skeptical. If someone
can make it work I would be very interested.
The point about SWR telling nothing about antenna performance is also something
I thought
about mentioning but I hate to burst the bubble of every CBer and
almost every ham around. This is one of the most sacred of all the
cows. A lot like oversquare and running lean of peak, in aviation.
Larry Pardue
RV-6Q Cabin Frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
>
>
> What should I be taking pictures of as I build and how many?
>
> When do I have to have different assemblies inspected? Do I have to have
> the H/S skeleton inspected before closing with the skin? ETC.
>
However many pictures you like. Personally I like to take pictures
of every "job." It gives a sense of progress to look through them.
There is no requirement for any inspections prior to the one when you
are ready to fly. It could sure be a good idea to have someone
knowledgable look things over from time to time though.
Larry Pardue
RV-6Q Cabin Frame
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
I have a question regarding installing fotwells in the RV-4. I built the
footwells as per plans (McReynolds) and am ready to install them but there
seems to be a few problems.
- the flap handle seems to go right through the middle of the footwell. Were
these intended for ships with electric flaps ?
- The aileron push tubes (big ones) contact the front(forward)of the
footwell. It would seem that I would have to move the pushtube forward on
the control column, which would mean moving the bearing attatch point
forward (re-welding it so the bearing sits on the forward side of where it
is now). Were these footwells designed for the smaller aileron push tubes..?
Have any of you RV-4 builders had these same problems when installing the
footwells ? Those of you who have installed them, are they worth going
through all this extra work ? IMHO, I feel that it would be a lot more
comfortable for the person in the back seat to have them installed, so I
will probably work through these problems. I would like some ideas as to
what you guys have done.
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4
finishing control hookups....elevator/rudder/aileron/flap...
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
>> What should I be taking pictures of as I build and how many?
>However many pictures you like. Personally I like to take pictures
>of every "job." It gives a sense of progress to look through them.
Another thing taking pictures helps with: helping other builders. The album
you keep of "the other pictures" will some day help someone else who is
building. There is nothing like photos when you're trying to build
something. I took lots of photos of both the project as it went together,
but also aircraft at fly-ins. It helps to see how someone else did what you
are trying to figure out. So: take photos to document what you did; also,
take photos to show someone how you did what you did.
Michael
RV-4 232 Suzie Q
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
----------
> From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Internal Antennas
> Date: Saturday, December 27, 1997 1:46 AM
>
>
> >
> >
> > Larry P wrote:
> >
> > > The trouble is it would not be just the gearleg, it would be the
whole
> > > airplane as the gear is securely bolted to same.
> > >
> > Now, that all depends on where you place the feed point, doesn't it.
The mass
> > of metal on the back side of a shunt feed has little practical effect
on
> > resonance.
>
> Well I did consider this but am still somewhat skeptical. If someone
> can make it work I would be very interested.
I initially thought it would not work due the close proximity of the gear
leg but I'm not sure. Sometimes rather crude-looking antennas radiate well
in spite of theory and good engineering practice. I'd say "try it". I'd
start with a simple center-fed dipole and see how it works on the ground
and in the air.
Dennis Persyk/N9DP former DX-er turned RV builder
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-Bookstore Catalogs |
Bob Skinner wrote:
[lots of worthwhile stuff deleted]...
> There are a lot of "old timers" on the list but I've noticed that some of
>their postings are becoming few and far between. They've been on the list
>for several years and have seen the same questions being asked over and
>over. It might tend to make some of them (us) grumpy but we have to realize
>that there are new people on the list all of the time and they have the same
>questions as we had when we started out. So, sometimes, they get a little
>grumpy when they perceive useless banter. Try to humor them if you can.
That's right. Humor me ;-) (grump, grump!)
3.5 years ago when I subscribed to this list, there were maybe 12-20
messages per day. Back then, I could take the time to read them all. Now,
with 50-60 messages each day, I can't possibly read them all. (Hey that's
it! a new excuse! My RV isn't finished yet because of all those pesky
rv-list messages! ;-))
However, just because I don't respond to many messages does not mean that I
am not eager to help. If anyone is REALLY looking for an answer from me,
just send me a private email. I answer every one of those.
After 37 months, my RV-6 has outgrown the garage. It's time to move it to
my hangar and put the wings on. I've been sorely temped to start the
engine in my front yard, but I've resisted so far.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
the last 10% takes 90% of the time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
> What should I be taking pictures of as I build and how many?
>
> When do I have to have different assemblies inspected? Do I have to have
> the H/S skeleton inspected before closing with the skin? ETC.
>
> Bill Pagan
> -8A empennage
Hi Bill,
The answers you've already received are right on target... pictures enough to
show somebody that _you_ actually did the work and no FAA _required_
inspections.
One thing I'll add is that you might want to hook up with an EAA tech
counselor and ask him or her to inspect your work on the HS before you close
it up. Two reasons: (1) you'll find out if you're doing something terribly
wrong before you've repeated your mistake well into the empennage; and (2)
some insurance carriers will provide better rates and 1st flight coverage if
you've had at least 3 visits from a tech counselor.
Happy building!
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [empennage almost complete]
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>I have a question regarding installing footwells in the RV-4.
>- the flap handle seems to go right through the middle of the footwell. Were
>these intended for ships with electric flaps ?
>Those of you who have installed them, are they worth going
>through all this extra work? I feel that it would be a lot more
>comfortable for the person in the back seat.....
I designed my own so can't say much about any other design. NO, they aren't
(shouldn't) be just for electric flaps. My flap handle is on the inside
third of the well. Still plenty of room for a foot. YES, they are worth
the extra work. Find an airplane with them and one without and sit in each.
WHAT a difference for the person in the back. Keep fiddling with them. It
may be the wells need to be set back further (less hassle) or rebuilt
(medium hassle) rather than messing with the controls (big hassle).
Michael
RV-4 232 Suzie Q
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
> Have any of you RV-4 builders had these same problems when installing the
> footwells ? Those of you who have installed them, are they worth going
> through all this extra work ? IMHO, I feel that it would be a lot more
> comfortable for the person in the back seat to have them installed, so I
> will probably work through these problems. I would like some ideas as to
> what you guys have done.
I can't help you with the installation, but from somebody who's been in the
back seat of RV-4's with and without the footwells, I can say that they
definitely make the back seat more comfortable.
The other thing I'll suggest is that if you install rudder pedals to the back
seat, you should try to insure that they don't interfere with where the
passenger's feet will rest in the footwells. A friend of mine installed rudder
controls in his -4 with the footwells and it's very uncomfortable to put my
feet in the footwells while at the same time making sure I stay off the
rudders. I end up trying to flex my foot backward--in excess of 90 degrees at
the ankle--to avoid the rudder pedals.
Just a thought...
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Twisted Elevator |
Hi folks:
After drilling a new elevator control horn ($23 from Van's) I finally finished
my left elevator last night. I was disappointed to find that there is a fairly
significant twist (about 3/4") from one end of the left elevator to the other.
I'm not sure how it happened, but there's no question that it's there. The
right elevator built in the same V-jig is straigh as an arrow (or a Bonanza,
if that's your preference).
The question: Should I plan on rebuilding this piece? I'm hoping that if I can
get the tip to line up with the HS when I drill the control horns that the
twist at the root end will not be noticeable? Is this just wishful thinking?
I know this has been discussed in the archives, but I couldn't find it.
Thanks in advance.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [all bent out of shape!]
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com> |
<< It sounds like the exhaust is beating directly on a big bass drum. >>
My earlier post suggested that the material of the aircraft is a sounding
board exactly as is the back side of a violin; take out the back side and
you've got the quietest violin you've ever not heard.
What you've got going is exactly what you think it sounds like; the exhaust is
beating on an aluminum drum head. What you've got to do is tune the surface
to a different frequency so that it doesn't resonate. In this case sound
insulation, per se, won't do very much to isolate the source. However, it
will alter the mass of the drum head thereby changing the frequency at which
it resonates. And if you can move the natural frequency of the surface to
outside the range of the exhaust pulses you've got most of it licked.
Unfortunately the only way to do that outside an acoustics lab is trial and
error. But it can be done and it's really not very hard to hit a large
improvement. Consider the mirror on your car: ever notice that it vibrates at
some engine speeds? Well, okay maybe yours doesn't but I've got 175000 miles
on her. Just the lightest touch totally kills it. Tape a nickel to the back
side and you get the same effect.
Give it a shot and let us know what happens.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Bell <RV4Bell(at)aol.com> |
When I ordered my Foot well kit, from Van's, the person I was dealing with
informed me not to use the plans in the RVator as the aileron push/pull rod
would hit the foot well as designed. I set the foot well as far aft as
possible and changed the angle to clear the aileron push/pull rod. Bruce Bell
RV-4 #2888 Working on the cowl, spinner and Sensenich prop connection!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot and cabin measures... |
Vanremog wrote:
> Basically you move the rollover bar forward about 1.5" and raise it
> about 1/4"
> on spacers. I toed-in the parallel rollover bar feet by fluting
> because the
> farther fwd you go, the fuselage starts necking down. Then you must
> jack up
> the roller brackets (I even had some extra steel welded on because the
>
> mounting holes were too close to the ends) on the canopy weldment.
> When
> fitting the canopy plexiglas you need to take a slim pie cut out of
> each side
> to account for this dimensional change but the result is worth it if
> you are
> tall and have taller friends. I'm hoping to give Brooke Shields and
> Mira
> Sorvino rides someday (well, I can dream can't I).
>
> I have 41" of vertical height from seat pan to inside of canopy crest.
>
> -GV
Gary,
When Brooke and Mira show up at your hanger, please give me a call!! :^)
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Gibbons" <planenuts(at)theonramp.net> |
Is the requirement for large N-numbers 200 MPH or 200 Knots?
Might make a diference.
Bob Gibbons
#80067
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Flaherty <yogieb(at)pipeline.com> |
>
>Is the requirement for large N-numbers 200 MPH or 200 Knots?
>Might make a diference.
>
>Bob Gibbons
>#80067
>
>Bob
If the maxium cruising speed exceeds 180 knots CAS (207 mph), the
registration marks must be at least 12 inches high.
Mike
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jeffrey m. sedlock" <jlock(at)centuryinter.net> |
| Subject: | Re:wing storage cradle |
can someone give me a simple description of a wing storage cradle. I have
some 2x6s, 2x4s, and old carpet for materials. I'm not good with wood.
thanks
jeff
jlock(at)centuryinter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
Marc,
I dont know anything about the foot well panels you are installing. The angle
is obviously wrong if they are hitting your push tubes. The pans I installed
in my 4 leave me with over 1" of clearance for the aileron push tubes. You
need to start the angle down farther aft from the main spar or decrease the
angle. And yes they are well worth the time and effort. Your passengers will
apreciate them very much. They will work fine with electric or manual flaps.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
mikel(at)dimensional.com wrote:
> Another thing taking pictures helps with: helping other builders. The album
> you keep of "the other pictures" will some day help someone else who is
> building. There is nothing like photos when you're trying to build
> something. I took lots of photos of both the project as it went together,
> but also aircraft at fly-ins. It helps to see how someone else did what you
> are trying to figure out. So: take photos to document what you did; also,
> take photos to show someone how you did what you did.
Very good point, Michael. With today's technology, the Web is also a
great place to share a construction log and photos. My attempt to do so
is:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
Use a EAA tech ---needed for insurance and firstflight coverage as already
noted. Pictures prove you built it and help you remember what you did. Get
together other homebuilders etc to look at project from time to time. Might
catch something you missed or occasionally spark your imagination with a good
idea. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Twisted Elevator |
> Subject: RV-List: Twisted Elevator
>
>
> Hi folks:
>
> After drilling a new elevator control horn ($23 from Van's) I finally
> finished
> my left elevator last night. I was disappointed to find that there is
> a fairly
> significant twist (about 3/4") from one end of the left elevator to
> the other.
> I'm not sure how it happened, but there's no question that it's there.
> The
> right elevator built in the same V-jig is straigh as an arrow (or a
> Bonanza,
> if that's your preference).
>
> The question: Should I plan on rebuilding this piece? I'm hoping that
> if I can
> get the tip to line up with the HS when I drill the control horns that
> the
> twist at the root end will not be noticeable? Is this just wishful
> thinking?
>
> I know this has been discussed in the archives, but I couldn't find
> it.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Rod Woodard
> RV-8, #80033 [all bent out of shape!]
> Loveland, Colorado
>
Rod-
I had a similar problem. When I finished my L elevator I noticed
a twist in the trim tab. What I decided to do,(and it worked) was to
drill out the rivets on the lower side of the tab, clamp the elevator
and tab in line to a steel straight edge, and redrill the hole to the
next size. I then installed pop rivets. I believe if you drill out the
spar rivets on the lower side, realign, drill and rerivet, you may get
what you need.
Good Luck
Rich Zeidman
RV6A 25224
waiting for wing kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick & Barb Osgood" <randbosgood(at)POP.A001.sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re:wing storage cradle |
From: "jeffrey m. sedlock" <jlock(at)centuryinter.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re:wing storage cradle
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 1997 12:45:51 -0600
can someone give me a simple description of a wing storage cradle. I have
some 2x6s, 2x4s, and old carpet for materials. I'm not good with wood.
thanks
jeff
jlock(at)centuryinter.net
Hi Jeff. I just built a cradle for my 6A wings. The layout was pretty
straight forward. Here's how I did it:
a) Used 2 x4's to build a rectangular frame. Frame size 6' x 2'
(could be 6' x 3')
b) I then used 3/4" plywood as a base cover over this frame (plywood
on bottom).
c) Used 2 2 x 4's to make upright posts and mounted these at each end
of the rectangle. In the middle....
d) Used scrap plywood to make 2 reinforcemaent gussets at the base of
the center uprights to give it more strength.
e) Nailed a 2 x 2 board across top of both upright posts
f) Put caster wheels on botom to be able to move it around.
I will put carpet pad on the bottom base and then bungee cord the
wings together at the top.
Total cost approx $30.00
________________________
\ \
========
\__________________________ \
----------------------------------------| 2 x 4 frame
Hope this helps
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
| From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
In my plans the oil filler door in the RV-4 cowl is shown latching with
two CAMLOC wing head fasteners. Can anyone suggest a design which does
not require the wing head fasteners?
I have seen a neat design using piano hinge for the fastener as well as
well as for the hinge itself. However, I cannot think of a neat way
to secure the pin locked.
Advice would be appreciated.
ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Elevator |
>Hi folks:
>
>After drilling a new elevator control horn ($23 from Van's) I finally
finished
>my left elevator last night. I was disappointed to find that there is a
fairly
>significant twist (about 3/4") from one end of the left elevator to the
other.
>I'm not sure how it happened, but there's no question that it's there.
The
>right elevator built in the same V-jig is straigh as an arrow (or a
Bonanza,
>if that's your preference).
>
>The question: Should I plan on rebuilding this piece? I'm hoping that
if I can
>get the tip to line up with the HS when I drill the control horns that
the
>twist at the root end will not be noticeable? Is this just wishful
thinking?
>
>I know this has been discussed in the archives, but I couldn't find it.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Rod Woodard
>RV-8, #80033 [all bent out of shape!]
>Loveland, Colorado
>
>
Rod,
Bummer man! Happened to me as well..on the right elevator. I'm pretty
sure it was from having the v-blocks not trued properly. The edges of
one of my blocks are not square..and had to shim it to get the left
elevator built straight. The twist in mine is 5/8" at the root end. I'm
not planning on redoing it..because..(hold onto yer hat!) the twist just
happens to be in the "right" direction to help offset torque and spiral
slipstream. I've been told that the Kitfox instrucions tell the builder
to offset the elevators ever so slightly to allow for a more solid
center feel on the stick. Perhaps the twist will provide this as well?
I'm NOT one for innaccurate airframes...don't get me wrong...but we're
dealing with an airplane here...NOT brain surgery. I've flown some
tweaked Cessna's in my day...and it didn't make them less safe in any
way...just gave them "personality" :)
So, I say set it aside, as I"ve done...and forge ahead. If it still bugs
you when it's time to mount the tail on the fuselage, then you can redo
it. I have set up my tail on the workbench (the AIRPLANE'S tail...NOT
mine) and rigged the elevators with the counterbalance arms flush with
the stabilizer surface...and everything seemed to line up pretty well at
the elevator horn bearing...could only perceive the twist when standing
back several feet and giving it the "steely eyed" squint.
Good luck!
Brian Denk
-8 #379
preparing wing skins into the next millenium...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cotrol alignment,plenum |
Occasionally someone creates a control surface that is warped.
How can this be prevented besides insuring that the jig is aligned properly?
I recently visited a sight with pictures of a plenum under the cowl. (lost the
link - anyone have it?)
What is the advantage of this?
Wayne Feggestad
RV-6 Tail - skinning surfaces
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
>In my plans the oil filler door in the RV-4 cowl is shown latching with
>two CAMLOC wing head fasteners. Can anyone suggest a design which does
>not require the wing head fasteners?
>
>I have seen a neat design using piano hinge for the fastener as well as
>well as for the hinge itself. However, I cannot think of a neat way
>to secure the pin locked.
>
>Advice would be appreciated.
>
>ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
>
I also didn't like Van's CamLoc method of securing the oil filler door. My
solution was to use a Hartwell flush latch instead. It makes a real clean,
no-drag installation. Wicks and ASS have these latches for about $12.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>
> >While working on the electrical system of the -4, I noticed the
> >master relay was getting very hot. I cannot see this as being normal,
> >but with my limited knowledge of electrical parts, I thought I would
> >see what "those who know" have to say.
> >It takes about 5-7 min for it to get hot. If I need to change it
> >now would be the time.
>
> How hot is "very hot"? A continuous duty rated contactor will
> have a resistance of 15-20 ohms and draw as much a .9 amps with
> the alternator running. This translates into about 12 watts of
> continuous heat that the contactor must reject though it's case
> and mounting feet . . . this CAN be too warm to hold your hand
> on but not dangerous for the contactor.
>
> Some folk have inadvertently used intermittant duty contactors
> as battery contactors (they're much lower resistance on the order
> of 3-7 ohms) and will distroy themselves when used for anything other
> than starter contactors. If you've had yours on for more than
> ten minutes and it's still alive, it's obviously a continous
> duty rated device.
>
> Bob . . .
> AeroElectric Connection
>
Bob
the relay gets hot enough that you would not want to hold it in your
hand very long. I checked the part number and it's the continous duty
relay. If you think this is the way it should be I will leave it.
If there is something else I should check let me know.
Thanks
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
RON TABOREK wrote:
>
>
> In my plans the oil filler door in the RV-4 cowl is shown latching with
> two CAMLOC wing head fasteners. Can anyone suggest a design which does
> not require the wing head fasteners?
>
> I have seen a neat design using piano hinge for the fastener as well as
> well as for the hinge itself. However, I cannot think of a neat way
> to secure the pin locked.
>
> Advice would be appreciated.
>
Ron
I used the hartwell latches and they work very well and look pretty
good too. If you go this route get some with the light spring tension,
as the strong ones are way to much for the fiberglass door.
As a suggestion, if you take a 20 oz pepsi bottle ( it's long with
a small diameter) it will screw right into a lycoming dip stick tube,
position the oil door so you can screw the bottle in through it.
It makes putting in oil very easy.
Good luck
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Twisted Elevator Update |
Hello listers!
I went back into my shop this evening to survey my left elevator again. I made
sure to remove all hammers and other potential tools of destruction from the
area in anticipation of seeing my twisted elevator again. In preparation for
some serious discussion with a couple of tech counselors who've been helping
me, I decided to measure the _exact_ amount of twist and to try and determine
which end it was coming from...
My work bench isn't precisely flat so I decided to try out the kitchen
countertop instead... remember I'm single. You married folks, don't try this
at home. Well the long and the short of it is that my elevator is only twisted
about 3/16" of an inch. It must have been sitting on some uneven portion of my
workbench last night because I _know_ it was 3/4" last night. In any case, I'd
rather have it perfect, but 3/16" is well within my tolerance and (I believe)
the airframe's.
Thanks to all those who responded. Sorry for the false alarm.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [_still_ the 2nd slowest RV-8 builder. Thanks EB!]
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing storage cradle |
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe) |
writes:
>can someone give me a simple description of a wing storage cradle. I
=============================================================================
Mine are stored in the basement side-by-side, trailing edges up, and are
sitting on the spar at both inboard and outboard (sans tips) locations -
they are not resting on the leading edge. This is very easy to set up if
you have a corner wall you can use, as follows: If you stand facing the
wall which the wings will run parallel to, all you need to do is attach a
2x4 (running horiz) which is wide enough to support both wings
side-by-side to the wall running perpendicular to the one you are facing
(huh?). The outboard spar overhang will rest on this 2x4. Attach
another 2x4 to the wall you are facing (running horiz) just inboard of
where the root rib would be - this will be used to support another 2x4
(running parallel to the one attached to the wall running perpendicular
to the one you are facing - or have you already left the room??) which
needs a vertical leg to support it on the other end. The inboard spar
rests on this 2x4. Cut a triangle from 1/2 in plywood as a stabilizer
and attach it to the foot of the leg. Presto, the wings are supported on
the spar and don't take up too much room.
BTW, if you can actually make sense out of this you obviously have had no
problems at all following the instructions and plans for your RV :)
And, don't worry, I haven't asked Van's if I could help them rewrite the
manual.
It does work though....
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Elevator Update |
>Thanks to all those who responded. Sorry for the false alarm.
Don't worry. You'll have more of them as time goes. It goes with the
territory. :-)
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (Having problems with flaps. )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Elevator |
I called Van's with the same problem several months ago. I believe I
spoke to Tom. He said that it would cause no flight problems and was
fairly common. I flew with it and have had no problems (45 hours now,
up to 210 mph.). Good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I have a lot of noise, so I will try a quarter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
I used the same type fasteners with the screw head, instead of the wing
head. I think I got .002 mph more out of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Horizontal Stabilizer |
I run out of nose down trim just about at cruise speed. I need to raise
the front of the horizontal stabilizer. In order not to have to do it
several times (trial and error) I thought I would ask for some advice
from you more experienced people. I was going to raise it 1/8". What
would some of you that have gone through this recommend? Thanks in
advance. Michael Lott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I got my new Prop Inc. prop last week. It seems to be a good all around
performer on my 150 hp -4. I still have a lot of tweaking to do with
the fairings and tail. I don't have gear leg intersection fairings made
yet. I have been waiting for someone to volunteer to make me some. Oh
well. At 1000 feet I could only get 2550 rpm and 170 mph out of it.
I made some temporary brackets to hold the gear leg fairings in place
better because I noticed they were apparently twisting in flight. I
then got 180 mph at 2650-2700 rpm.
Cruise at 2500 was 168. I couldn't believe the difference just with the
gear leg fairings being held in place properly. I'm hoping resetting
the horizontal stabilizer incidence will lose a little more drag. I'm
hoping to get another 10 mph out of it when I finish all the fairings,
and boost it up to 160 hp. Does this sound reasonable to you more
experienced people? This prop climbs good, also. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Elevator |
This happened to me and I blame it on the V cradles. I drilled of the skin on
the right hand elevator and when I reskinned I did it on a flat bench as
instructed in the manual with the left one on the same bench so as to make
them the same. The most likely result of such small twist are in getting the
long counterbalance arms of the RV4 to fairin at the same time. I wish I had
not removed the skin and had instead just doctored the counterbalances. Somone
above mentioned that the Kfox has opposite twist in the elevator and this is
in fact true as it keeps an air load on the surfaces when in trail. The
weldment comes that way from the factory and the builder is cautioned not to
attempt to staighten. I do not think the RV fully airfoiled horozontal and
elev need this done ---they should be as straight as possible. The Kfox is rag
and tube and many builders do not airfoil them at all. I do think a minor
twist even if opposite will not affect the flying as they will seek a balance
point. What would be nice however is at that balance point ( neutral point)
the counter balance arms be at equal points on both sides and fully faired in
normal cruise ( in a perfect world). I have at fly-ins noticed esp. with the
RV4 builders closely inspecting others airplanes for symetrical fairing. I
have seen many that were not exactly the same so can we assume they may also
have some unwanted twist in their surfaces---probably---yet these are
finnished and flying acraft and their owners seem awfully happy.JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
I have an RV-4 Circa 1985 and would like to add footwells. Where do I get the
kit to do this? How extensive is the installation and how long does it take
most of you to install?
Regards,
Von Alexander
N107RV
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | John Hovan's New Home |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0050_01BD1318.D9704B80"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BD1318.D9704B80
For those interested, John Hovan's web site can now be referenced on =
Matt Dralle's Matronics' Home Page. It rates at the top for reference =
material and links to other RV sites.
To go direct, go to http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan/index.html
Happy New Year, Everyone!
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wing spars)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BD1318.D9704B80
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
For those interested, John Hovan's web site can now =
be=20
referenced on Matt Dralle's Matronics' Home Page. It rates at the top =
for=20
reference material and links to other RV sites.
To go direct, go to http://www.mat=
ronics.com/rv-list/hovan/index.html
Happy New Year, =
Everyone!
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wing=20
spars)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
------=_NextPart_000_0050_01BD1318.D9704B80--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
JRWillJR wrote:
>
>
> Use a EAA tech ---needed for insurance and firstflight coverage as already
> noted. Pictures prove you built it and help you remember what you did.
What about getting an A&P to check your work? Wouldn't that be as good?
Don Champagne
RV-6QB N767DC
90% complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Skymap II GPS/MAP |
Does anyone have experience with the subject GPS? I like its large
screen and many features but the price (1599 at Spruce) goes up for
panel mounting (239), external antenna (385), and autopilot interface
(459!). Guess I'll settle for a well known brand...VFR version only,
and hope antenna is included. Is any one VFR GPS or GPS/MAP a best
value?
Will Cretsinger
Arlington, TX
-6A now working brakes
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Dunlap <chuck(at)zekes.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
Michael C. Lott wrote:
>
>
> I run out of nose down trim just about at cruise speed. I need to raise
> the front of the horizontal stabilizer. In order not to have to do it
>
When I looked behind at the elevator tips in flight, they were always
about 1/8 in high depeding on cg loading. I raised mine with a .063 shim
under the front horiz stab spar. That was just about right, now they are
even. Maybe your trim cable needs adjustment - there is of trim
either way when centered properly.
Chuck Dunlap (S.E. AZ)
RV-4 N914RV 520 hours
RV-6 Working on fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
<< Use a EAA tech ---needed for insurance and firstflight coverage as already
noted. >>
Only necessary if you use Avemco, not all insurers. Falcon doesn't require
the use of the EAA tech counselor program and was about $300/yr cheaper than
Avemco for my 6A and it's covered from day one as long as the pilots' names
are on the policy.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
> Is any one VFR GPS or GPS/MAP a best
> value?
I think the GPS I've always wanted just apppeared on the market, and I saw it
first in Sporty's, of all places. Garmin Sport III Pilot. Essentially an
improved (smaller, lighter, cheaper, keys moved out of the way of the display,
etc) GPS/Map 195. The GPS approaches were omitted from the database; other
than that it's got supposedly the same features as the $1200 model for $699.
I'm going to inquire further!
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
GV: Please post address/ phone # for Falcon Insurance.
Walt RV-6A (Will fly in Feb.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WILLMINCEY <WILLMINCEY(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
if you don't need a data base, try the Garmin 12 that gives you everything
most people need for $168 from walmart. Its the only cheap one without the
velocity limitation from Garmin. It is a handheld obviously. I mounted it in
my rv-3 and like it. put in all the points I needed for the local area in less
than 5 minutes.
WillMincey(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
<< I run out of nose down trim just about at cruise speed. I need to raise
the front of the horizontal stabilizer. >>
Whoa big fella! Does this trend hold true for all speeds or just cruise?
How is your weight and balance first? Then try to determine the difference
between the wing and horiz stab incidences. If memory serves, I believe that
the wing incidence is 1 degree positive and the horiz stab incidence should be
0 degrees. If your weight and balance is wrong, fix that first.
You don't want to get in a situation where you have a positive horizontal stab
incidence.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Dick Martin only... |
Sorry in advance for using the list this way...
Thank you Dick Martin for your e-mail concerning my imagined elevator problem.
I've been trying to send you a response concerning other matters you mentioned
in your e-mail, but your address keeps bouncing. I've tried:
Pmartin(at)gbonline.com
and
@gbonline.com
and both returned error messages. Problem on your end or mine?
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Inspections and Insurance |
Yes, getting an A&P to look your work over is a VERY good idea. The
Avemco/National program I do believe does require the use of an EAA Tech
Couslor and for first flight coverage the EAA Flight Advisor. These are
programs that I believe were started to reduce accidents in the testing period
and very first flights and the Tech Coun. program to provide a self policing
facet to homebuilding instead of having the FAA do all the preclousure
inspections that were at one time required. These are good programs and do not
cost anything---maybe lunch or gas. A&Ps are great but many are not
homebuilders or pilots and most EAA Tech Coun. are multiple builders and may
also be an A&P. Most have flown planes they built and so have a unique
perspective. Their guidance can be very helpful as you prepare for your first
flight. Some may have contacts that can get you a flight in a similar craft so
you will have a better idea what to expect . Some people have lots of builder
friends ,esp. builders in and around large cities, but some off us slave away
alone and isolated so the Tech Coun can be very useful to them as a second set
of critical eyes. Oh, that Falcon Insurance Co. sounds like a good deal. Give
us more details and a number. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
Ron,
The choices are endless. You can substitute the winged fasteners with flush
sloted fasteners that require a screw driver (using the same recepticals). I
riveted a hinge on the inside of the cowl for the lower latch, I simply pull a
pin on the inside of the cowl for my release. I have seen others do this with
2 hinges pulling both allows you to remove the whole door. Either way will
provide a very nice installation. I never provided a means of safetying mine
because it never has migrated at all. It would be easy to rivet on a clip
inside the cowl to keep it from migrating though. I saw a nice installation on
a lancair a freind owns also. No latches at all. Its spring loaded, you push
it in and rotate it to the side. By far the best I have seen yet. Hope this
gives you a few ideas.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: John Hovan's New Home |
Does any one know who you call to reserve an N Number.
I did the data base search and its not assigned yet, but who do I call.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
Hi Will:
I have been using the Garmin 195, I purchased it in OSH in 96 when they first
came out.
It had the best display, and it also has all the IFR approaches in it, and an
electric HSI.
I think there selling for 1195.00 or better. There are some grumblings that
they are about to come out with the next generation, but that has yet to be
seen. The moving Map is great, along with a great CDI.
Also the support from Garmin is great.
For what it worth.
BIll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bill(at)wynne.co.uk |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
>Hi Will:
I have been using my Garmin 195 in the UK for the past year as a backup to
my VOR. I had previously had a Garmin 55AVD then a Garmin 90 in earlier
'planes. The eleven month old "90" I broke (my fault!) and Garmin replaced
it with a new one within a week no questions asked. On the 195 the screen
is very easy to read, the keys are quite intuitive, and the programming
options allow one to programme as much or as little detail as one wants on
to the moving map. Twice this year ('97) it has allowed me to complete a
journey that turned marginal in the final stages, rather than have to
divert. It also has excellent reception from anywhere in my Europa. The
only downside is that I am starting to rely on it!
Bill W-Wynne N5236 W00404 (Talybont UK) 44(0)1654-710101(fax)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
>You don't want to get in a situation where you have a positive horizontal stab
>incidence.
>
>-GV
Why not?
This is not a canard configuration, if the tail ever stalls the nose drops
and you are flying again.
Besides, that would require an increase of incidence in the other direction.
Increasing the incidence of the stab might cause you to run out of elevator
power which would limit the forward C.G. of the aircraft. Forward C.G.
issues have not been a problem on the RV series.
The fasteners on the stabilizer are thirteen inches apart, it would take a
shim just under a quarter inch to raise the incidence by one degree.
David Fried
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: John Hovan's New Home |
>
>Does any one know who you call to reserve an N Number.
>I did the data base search and its not assigned yet, but who do I call.
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Bill
Bill,
Send a letter listing no more than five requested N numbers that you would
like to reserve in the order of importance to you along with a check for $10
made out to the FAA. Send everything to:
Federal Aviation Administration
Mike Monroney Aeronautical Center
Civil Aviation Registry AFS-750
P.O. Box 25504
Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0504
The reservation is good for one number for a twelve-month period, then
another $10 needs to be sent in.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wing spars)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Devlin" <jdevlin(at)americus.net> |
| Subject: | Airframe Tools, Tips, & Lessons Learned |
My RV6A project was started 13 months ago and the fuselage skins will be on
by week's end. This list is a tremendous asset to all builders. It is
difficult to gauge/gage/gayg (sorry Matt) the time saved by subscribing.
I've mostly lurked without contributing. So this lengthy email is a
summary of some lessons learned by a newbie builder with good shop skills
but no prior sheet metal experience. It is primarily presented for first
time builders.
Tools
Carpenter screws. Harbor Freight sells low cost wood carpenter screws
(clamps). These clamps are very versatile and I prefer them over steel
clamps because they won't mar if used without shims. They also have a deep
depth of reach and can be opened easily. They are easily adjusted to fit
over rib and bulkhead flanges. The two sizes I use are two 12 inch and
four 10 inch. The larger ones also make excellent holding jigs while
riveting light but unwieldy components like HS spars, wing rear spars,
etc.... Just clamp two to the spar and set them vertically on the
workbench while drilling or riveting. A couple of wraps of duct tape
around the center threads is a good idea to prevent chaffing. They're like
a second set of hands.
Swivel flush rivetter. Avery sells a swivel flush rivetter that is IMHO
indispensable for a newbie rivetter. My HS skins were dinged in several
places because the alignment of the rivet gun to surface was off slightly.
The swivel rivet tool would have prevented this. It is very forgiving and
a bargain.
Paint guns. Harbor Freight sells a touch up gun for $20 that works great
on priming small parts. If the cup is Teflon coated, I recommend soaking
it in MEK and removing the coating with steel wool or another abrasive.
The Teflon tends to flake off and clog the paint gun. The HVLP gun sold by
Harbor Freight was discussed several months ago. I bought one and believe
it lives up to all expectations. The paint savings is dramatic to someone
used to conventional sprayers.
Pneumatic cleco gun. This item was purchased from Avery as sort of a nice
-to-have tool half way through drilling my wing skins. I now consider it
an essential part of my tool bag. It saves lots of time and helps prevent
fatigue from repetitive motion. In fact, I keep it in a holster, designed
for drill motors. With a my nail apron on to hold clecoes and the cleco
gun in my belt clecoing goes fast. I look a little foolish though; but
who cares?
Scotchbrite wheels. Avery sells a 1 inch wheel and mandrel that is
outstanding for fast finishing of aluminum edges. If there was ever a tool
that minimizes metal fatigue cracks; this is it. These tools work well in
drill presses and on high speed die grinders; however, they don't last as
long on the die grinder but work twice as fast. After shaping the part on
a belt sander, it is passed through the scotchbrite wheel for a smooth
satin finish. I usually keep about five wheels on hand and two mandrels,
one for narrow edges like skins and the other for structural edges 1/8 inch
or better. I can't comment on the other wheel sizes but it seems other
builders are satisfied with them too.
Homemade tools.
Bucking bars. There is nothing special about bucking bars. They are
simply a smooth and heavy surface to form the finished rivet. The
manufactured bars are great and several should be purchased but I recommend
buying small pieces of scrap steel from a scrap metal yard or welding shop.
Expect to pay about $0.35 per pound for this metal. Anything more, is a
rip-off. These pieces can be shaped and smoothed for the one or two rivets
that can't be reached with a manufactured bucking bar.
Priming frame. The task of priming small parts can be a pain because they
stick to flat surfaces after painting. This became a non-problem by using
a painting surface made from chicken wire attached to a 2x2 wood frame.
The chicken wire mesh size is 1 inch. The frame can be any size. I use
one approximately 3 ft x 7 ft laid across two sawhorses. Really small
parts can be impaled in the mesh while painting. Because so little surface
area actually touches the primed part, it dries fast and completely without
leaving adhesion marks..
Workbench surface. The manual recommends a plywood or similar surface
while drilling stiffeners to skins. I used aluminum backed insulation
board on top of my workbench. This insulation board is used in home
construction. This IMHO is a superior surface. It doesn't scratch. The
drills easily penetrate it and the clecoed skins can be lifted free when
finished. The material is cheap too. Of course, the underlying surface
must be flat. None of my skins have any oil canning. I highly recommend
it over plywood or particle board.
Scratch protection. Carpet remnants are excellent for preventing scratches
on bare skins. The handiest size has been about 2ft x 3ft. They are
particularly beneficial when running the skins through the C frame while
dimpling or while back riveting stiffeners to skins. Use them to cover
anything that could produce a scratch. I keep about 6-8 pieces on hand.
They're also good to cover sawhorses when you lay large finished pieces
like wings across them. Involve your spouse or significant other. Have
them help you pick out an appropriate color/texture for your shop decor!
Wood dowels. I like to use wood dowels in place of steel machine screws
wherever possible. For instance, while building the HS on the jig, I used
golf tees to hold it to the jig rather than the recommended machine screws.
They are easy to insert and remove and they won't enlarge the hole
diameter from chaffing. They'll break before the piece bends. They're
cheap and easy to replace. The supply is plentiful around my house.
Recently I used a tapered dowel for a temporary pin to mount the gear leg
to the mount. The taper was made on a belt sander in about two minutes.
This long tapered pin was easily inserted, found center, and easily
removed.
Miscellaneous Tips
Inventorying. When inventorying parts, I like to mark on the plastic
coating the part number in magic marker in three inch letters. This is so
I can't miss it when searching for it during building. It gives easy
identification. I hate to waste precious building time searching for
parts that I've already found once.
Labeling parts. Early in the building process I was sensitized to possible
metal fatigue due to metal etching stemming from construction labeling. I
don't know where this came from but the first month of building both wings
simultaneously nearly drove me crazy keeping track of left - right, top -
bottom, tip - root, leading edge - trailing edge, etc... in my head. Then
I started labeling everything with a laundry marker. I now mark the jig
and parts. And prime over labels. Can't label too much in my opinion.
Parts bags. When inventorying the bag parts, I transfer them into plastic
zip lock freezer bags. Each bag is marked with the bag number and parts
contained in it. This gives me good visual and documentary identification.
The bag parts are placed in one of three boxes marked rivets, fasteners,
or miscellaneous. The rivet box is further organized by diameter, length
and type (AN470 , AN426 or pop rivet). This technique really helps to find
parts while building. While building the wings, the AN3-XX bolts were
stored according to length. Baby food jars worked well for this but
freezer bags would work too!.
Red tags. I like to hang red shipping tags on or in the vicinity of
components that I haven't finished or have skipped construction steps.
These tags are the flourescent red 1 inch shipping tags available at office
supply stores or Walmart. This is just a visual reminder to go back and
complete the step. It eases the memory load during construction.
Disclaimer: These opinions and recommendations are mine and mine alone.
They do not necessarily represent the opinions of my employer, friends,
family, or acquaintances, both living or dead. They merely are those of a
citizen exercising First Amendment rights under the Constitution of the
United States using the internet media.
Good luck building!
Best regards,
John Devlin
Have a Happy New Year!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Re-set |
<< I run out of nose down trim just about at cruise speed. I need to raise
the front of the horizontal stabilizer. In order not to have to do it
several times (trial and error) I thought I would ask for some advice
from you more experienced people. I was going to raise it 1/8". What
would some of you that have gone through this recommend? Thanks in
advance. Michael Lott >>
Mike, and others:
I re-set the stab on a Rocket for a customer about 2 wks ago. He would run out
of trim at 200 MPH indicated with a pax. Not good, as cruise is about 20 above
this. We raised the front spar by 3/16" on this bird, and all is good now.
Enough trim to dive to 270, hands off. Most unexpectedly, the owner reports a
12 MPH increase at cruise power settings. Huh? So! check your indcated speeds
now, and again after re-setting your stab. Please report what happens with
your bird.
How to re-set? I suppose it depends on your mission profile. I'd say start
with the 1/8" as you have said. Do you carry a pax a lot, or seldom? In other
words, what is your usual loading to be? Whatever this condition is, you want
the elevs to be in a neutral posit at cruise speeds. We try to get the Rockets
to have a bit to nose-up trim in at cruise, when flown solo. This lets the a/c
have the elev's at neutral at cruise when loaded. If most of your flying is
solo, set it up that way. Your choice.
You will be bending your V stab rear spar a bit as you re-set the h stab. You
might get away with re-fabbing the v stab attach angle at the top longeron to
get the hinge points in line again. Use your Avery bushings and some dental
floss that you used on the h stab jig to check for alignment. You might need
to fab the attach angle from 1" angle this time.
Of course, you will get to re-mold your empennage fairing. Oh boy.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
>I used the same type fasteners with the screw head, instead of the wing
>head. I think I got .002 mph more out of it.
The winged fasteners are a slotted fastener with the wings jammed into a
slot. The wings can be removed to convert them to a slotted fastener with
not too much grief.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
Check out www.avweb.com. They have a review of all the handheld GPS
units, and they keep updating it. You have to register with the site,
but it's completely free, and has alot of other useful information,
including a good article about engine break-in procedures.
Moe Colontonio
Cherry Hill, NJ
RV-8 Fabricating 3rd HS-810 (Don't ask)
Sport AV8R wrote:
>
>
>
> > Is any one VFR GPS or GPS/MAP a best
> > value?
>
> I think the GPS I've always wanted just apppeared on the market, and I saw it
> first in Sporty's, of all places. Garmin Sport III Pilot. Essentially an
> improved (smaller, lighter, cheaper, keys moved out of the way of the display,
> etc) GPS/Map 195. The GPS approaches were omitted from the database; other
> than that it's got supposedly the same features as the $1200 model for $699.
> I'm going to inquire further!
>
> Bill B
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
JRWillJR wrote:
> Yes, getting an A&P to look your work over is a VERY good idea. The
> Avemco/National program I do believe does require the use of an EAA Tech
> Couslor and for first flight coverage the EAA Flight Advisor.
When I mentioned the discount for having the EAA Tech Counselor provide
3 inspections, Avemco said the EAA keeps saying that, but it was never
approved by Avemco and is not given.
John kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pictures & Inspections |
<< Please post address/ phone # for Falcon Insurance. >>
Sorry, I thought I had included it in the latest revision of the Yeller Pages.
Eric Pfister at Falcon Insurance can be reached at 800-880-3597. Tell him I
sent you. They have a program with Skystar (the Kitfox/Pulsar folks) and seem
very competitive with some coverage that is better for less $$.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
<< >You don't want to get in a situation where you have a positive horizontal
stab
>incidence.
>
>-GV
Why not? >>
The RV's conventional plan form requires a small down force on the horizontal
tail to balance the lifting force on the wing. The only way this can happen
is if the horiz stab flies at an attack angle less than that of the wing.
Check Martin Hollman's book on a/c design for more info.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA Reg# Phone Contact and more |
<< Does any one know who you call to reserve an N Number.
I did the data base search and its not assigned yet, but who do I call. >>
For you new guys and gals, please check the Yeller Pages for this and other
repetitive info. Download a copy. I update it every few months, so if you
see that I've missed someone with an RV related item for sale, let me know.
The Yeller Pages can be had at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
<19971221.114055.9566.2.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
Scott:
HOw do you tell the difference in the two solinods?
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Stratmoen <dstrats(at)ruralink.com> |
| Subject: | archive download |
Call me computer illiterate, but I am not sure how to download the
rv-list archive. It also seems when I try, it wants me to download
something else with it and I just get lost. Could I please get advice on
exactly what to do such as
1. What is the best address to download it from
2. What options to download
3. How to search it when I get it downloaded
If it's relavent I use Netscape and MS Office
Also I am just starting a 6AQ, my next job is to fit F-675 rear top
fuselage skin. I'm working in an FBO's shop. He says I don't need to
buy that big C-frame dimpling tool, the way he dimples is with a rivet
gun and that he can show me how to get things to look as good as the
work that has been done on it using a rivet gun. What do you guys think,
are you familiar with that method. Any other advice on doing a good job
on the skins appreciated. Thanks in advance
David Stratmoen 6AQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
>
>I designed my own so can't say much about any other design. NO, they aren't
>(shouldn't) be just for electric flaps. My flap handle is on the inside
>third of the well. Still plenty of room for a foot. YES, they are worth
>the extra work. Find an airplane with them and one without and sit in each.
>WHAT a difference for the person in the back. Keep fiddling with them. It
>may be the wells need to be set back further (less hassle) or rebuilt
>(medium hassle) rather than messing with the controls (big hassle).
>
>I didn't think that they were meant for electric flaps only. I don't think
I can fudge the ones I built, they will have to be rebuilt to fit my
airplane. thanks for the reply.
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4 #3289
>
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
ve worked
out.....for now anyway !
Hypothesis:
If I were to do it again ( and I hope it is on my next RV ) I would NOT
finish the elevator counterbalance till the elevators are mounted on the HS.
This way you could get the skins to line up `perfectly'.....ah hindsight
isn't it great.. (-:
Marc DeGirolamo
Saskatoon,Canada
RV-4
re-pouring lead in right elevator (this went a lot better the second time also)
>
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
> He says I don't need to
>buy that big C-frame dimpling tool, the way he dimples is with a rivet
>gun and that he can show me how to get things to look as good as the
>work that has been done on it using a rivet gun.
>David,
Basically you can make `nice rivets' using a number of different
dimpling methods. The reason I like the c-frame tool (I made my own for
about 10 bucks...materials....)is that you can do the big skins alone. I
have used the rivet gun and female die but unless you can reach the rivet
hole and have good control of the gun (very little pressure) you WILL smile
the skin. It is a good investment IMHO.
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4 #3289
Saskatoon, Canada
>
>
>
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cotrol alignment,plenum |
--------------4B787A130746105C545B6DFA
>
>
> I recently visited a sight with pictures of a plenum under the cowl. (lost the
link - anyone have it?)
> What is the advantage of this?
>
Link is at http://www.kis.net/eaa524/ Advantages include knowing that you have a good seal
for your baffling before you install your top cowling (otherwise, EVERY time you
install your top cowl the
seal you get is subject to proper installation); there is NO baffling seal to
rub on the underside of
the top cowling; maybe ( don't know for sure) a little less work.Good luck! Warren
Bishop 90% done,
90% to go!
> Wayne Feggestad
> RV-6 Tail - skinning surfaces
>
--------------4B787A130746105C545B6DFA
I recently visited a sight with pictures of a plenum under the cowl.
(lost the link - anyone have it?)
What is the advantage of this?
Link is at http://www.kis.net/eaa524/
Advantages include knowing that you have a good seal for your baffling
before you install your top cowling (otherwise, EVERY time you install
your top cowl the seal you get is subject to proper installation);
there is NO baffling seal to rub on the underside of the top cowling;
maybe ( don't know for sure) a little less work.Good luck! Warren
Bishop 90% done, 90% to go!
Wayne Feggestad
RV-6 Tail - skinning surfaces
| Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites
at http://www.matronics.com
|
---
|
---
| Please aggressively
--------------4B787A130746105C545B6DFA--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
<34A5B234.AEEEAABE(at)datastar.net>
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>I used the same type fasteners with the screw head, instead of the
>wing head.
Does anyone happen to know the P/N for this fastener? I have 3 different
types of this thing, and none of them are the right size.
Thanks,
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
> From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
> Does anyone have experience with the subject GPS? I like its large
> screen and many features but the price (1599 at Spruce) goes up for
> panel mounting (239), external antenna (385), and autopilot interface
> (459!). Guess I'll settle for a well known brand...VFR version only,
> and hope antenna is included. Is any one VFR GPS or GPS/MAP a best
> value?
I played with this unit at sun'n'fun a couple years back. Screen lacked a
little contrast in the shade, but the more sunlight you gave it the more
readable it was (perfect for an RV).
Your pricing is rather high:
$1250 Skyforce II unit (Chief Aircraft, www.chiefaircraft.com)
240 Panel mount
65 External active 5V 26dB antenna (www.lowe.co.uk)
-----
$1555 Total
The autopilot interface is only required for complex autopilot/HSI/CDI
installations. The unit can be used as is with a Navaid Devices wing
leveler to track a GPS course (using the built-in NMEA 0183 interface and
Porcine Smart Coupler).
I'm personally considering this unit or the Garmin GNC250XL moving map
gps/com ($2485 with antenna). The Garmin has nice backlighting for night
flying, which the Skyforce lacks.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Tips on where to find used parts |
I've found these places helpful, maybe you will too.
I've found lots of things for my aircraft projects at give away prices
on the Classified 2000 free ads. Get right to aircraft parts at
http://www.classifieds2000.com/cgi-cls/display.exe?DejaNews+Generic+Aviation+AircraftParts+Search
The auto responder at parts(at)pdsig.n2.net will also return a small
listing of parts for sale, along wilt a pointer to other
auto-responders on different subjects, aviation related.
A real interesting web site with lots of consignment parts is
http://www.barnstormers.com/
One of the biggest web site relating to aircraft is
http://www.landings.com/aviation.html
You're all invited to buzz over to my web site listed below and have a
gander!
Send email to infobot(at)pdsig.n2.net for a directory of interesting stuff!
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)pdsig.n2.net Web Site:
http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Horizontal Stabilizer Re-set |
I believe you will find that most RV-4 guys end up with 1/4" spacers. Some
just start out that way because over the years that has proven to be the right
amount. In talking to Van, at high cruise you should have some down elevator
for pitch stability. On the -6s, about 3/8" up at the forward tip is about
right. Don't know what you would end up with on the -4 since the tip extends
a bit further forward, but I would guess that 1/2" is about right. But what's
a -6 guy know? Some of the -4 guys on this list should have this pinned down
real close. A couple of the "Bills" and "Jerry" would certainly know, but
maybe they are off for the holidays.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA/2nd Time Offender/EAA Tech Counselor
<< I run out of nose down trim just about at cruise speed. I need to raise
the front of the horizontal stabilizer. In order not to have to do it
several times (trial and error) I thought I would ask for some advice
from you more experienced people. I was going to raise it 1/8". What
would some of you that have gone through this recommend? Thanks in
advance. Michael Lott >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Bell <RV4Bell(at)aol.com> |
Correction to my post. Van does not offer a foot well kit. When I called Van's
to order material for the foot wells I was handed over to Bill Benedict who at
the time was also going to put foot wells in his RV-4. He cut and bent the
flange on two pieces for me. When the pieces arrived there were 10 each of
the two pieces required. I kept one each and sent the rest back to Bill. He
may still have those extras in the shop. He put a part number on them but I do
not have that information anymore. Bill was also aware that the RVator
drawings were in error. He advised to make up a foot well with poster board to
get the correct fit. The rear seat rudder petals are made to disconnect and
lay forward out of way when not needed. Bruce Bell RV-4 2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
2600-3W with wing, 2600-3 without. It's in the Aircraft Spruce catalog! Also
tells how to measure to get the right length.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>I used the same type fasteners with the screw head, instead of the
>wing head.
Does anyone happen to know the P/N for this fastener? I have 3 different
types of this thing, and none of them are the right size.
Thanks,
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
Need to spend some Christmas money. Anyone used that new Pilot DNR headset?
Looks good and I need a good headset as my cheapest cheapo Softcoms are
falling apart. Softcom ,buy the way ,is a horrible bunch to deal with. Buy
anything before you try their junk----they have no service at all.JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LesDrag <LesDrag(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
<< Subj: Re: RV-List: Internal Antennas
Date: 97-12-25 08:03:07 EST
From: harje(at)proaxis.com (Denny Harjehausen)
Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
I understood Tracy Sailor has a copper tape antenna glassed into the aft edge
of the fiberglass gear leg covers. It seems to work for him. It doesn't
follow theory on what little I learned while getting a Tech. amateur radio
lic. But for small investment it will take I'm going to try it. I have the
plumbing for the coat hanger ant. in the wing tip if it fails. If anyone know
Tracy they might ask him what magic he did if anything to make it ignore
theory.
The best Holidays ever to you and yours.
Denny RV-6 >>
Hi All,
I just talked with Tracy Saylor. He is not on the RV-list, but did ask that I
include his phone number for anyone that had questions for him, personally.
His phone number is (805) 933-8225.
Tracy does have one of Van's windshield copper strip antenna's mounted on the
inside aft edge of one on his gear leg fairings. He says it works almost as
good as a bent antenna mounted out in the breeze on the belly of his -6.
Tracy said that the gear leg fairing mounted copper strip antenna works as
well as the Sportcraft wingtip COM antenna in the "standard" RV-6 wingtip.
(The "newer" wingtips that are mounted on his -6 didn't allow the Sportcraft
wingtip COM to have the vertical height needed to function as well as either
previous installations.)
Tracy also said that he has mounted his transponder antenna inside the cowl on
the bottom of the airbox. He says this works very well, and gets the antenna
out of the airstream.
BTW, I have a set of Tracy Saylor's single piece fiberglass gear leg fairing
on my RV-3.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
JRWillJR wrote:
>
> Need to spend some Christmas money. Anyone used that new Pilot DNR headset?
> Looks good and I need a good headset as my cheapest cheapo Softcoms are
> falling apart. Softcom ,buy the way ,is a horrible bunch to deal with. Buy
> anything before you try their junk----they have no service at all.JR
Don't know how much Christmas $$ you got to spend, but I'd recommend the
LightSPEED 20k ANR. My wife was dreading flying with me just because of the
headsets I had. At OSH we tried on a few and ended up with these. They had a booth
with an "eggshell" chair with speakers they could play 6 different aircraft
noises. And you could try on 4 competitors headsets--including Bose!! The Bose
are comfortable, but heavier than LightSPEED and of course more than twice the
$$.
She loves them (so do I)--very comfortable for 3hours and very good noise
reduction!
Warren Bishop 90% done, 90% to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Skymap II GPS/MAP |
Will Cretsinger wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with the subject GPS? I like its large
> screen and many features but the price (1599 at Spruce) goes up for
> panel mounting (239), external antenna (385), and autopilot interface
> (459!).
Will,
I have one and like it a lot. A recent Kitplanes issue had a good write
up on it. The current price is actually $1250, still no bargain but a
lot more reasonable than $1599. The panel mount is not needed unless you
want to flush mount it in the panel. For the price, I may make my own
tray for the RV4, or just velcro it to the panel. In my Cherokee 235 I
just use the leg strap that comes with it as there's no room on the
panel. It comes with an antenna and 7' cable. The antenna has a base for
screw mounting if you desire. It also comes with a cig lighter plug and
cable. The Porcine autopilot interface can be used with the Skymap to
drive the Navaid or other autopilots and only costs $150. Skyforce's
accessory prices are crazy in my opinion.
The reasons I selected the Skymap are:
1) the large screen, which you can orient in any of the 4 positions
(buttons down, up, left, or right).
2) the user interface, which is very intuitive and uses just 5 keys, the
functions of which change for every screen and are labeled on the
screen, like an ATM terminal.
3) the database and operating software are on one cartridge for easy
upgrading. If you update the database you automatically get the latest
software version. The GPS price includes one free update, which normally
costs $160. The only other GPS I know of that has the database and
software on a cartridge is the Lowrance Airmap.
I might have bought the Garmin 195 except that the keys are above the
screen so your hand blocks the screen - very aggravating in my opinion.
When I asked them about changing that, they told me it is intended to be
used as a handheld and operated with your thumbs, and they have no plans
to change the buttons to make it easier to use mounted on a panel.
Skymap lets you put the buttons anywhere you want them.
Hope this helps. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you may
have.
Bob Reiff
RV4 #2646, building fuselage
Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.execpc.com/reiff
FAA-PMA aircraft preheating systems, engine covers, RV wing skin heaters
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Liability concerns |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD13B0.805D1E40"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD13B0.805D1E40
I am in the process of selling my RV-6A and am wondering if anyone has =
run into any liability=20
concerns regarding homebuilt aircraft. I have heard of people who would =
not sell a homebuilt=20
because of the danger of lawsuits in case of an accident. Is this =
something to worry about?=20
Is it different in Canada than the US? Comments???
Ted French
RV-6A flying
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD13B0.805D1E40
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I am in the process of selling my =
RV-6A and am=20
wondering if anyone has run into any liability
concerns regarding =
homebuilt=20
aircraft. I have heard of people who would not sell a homebuilt =
because of=20
the danger of lawsuits in case of an accident. Is this something to =
worry about?=20
Is it different in Canada than the US? =
Comments???
Ted French
RV-6A=20
flying
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD13B0.805D1E40--
sion.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
rad(at)pen.net
Pensacola, FL
RV-8 order soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
Bob Reiff replied to your request for information concerning the Skyforce
GPS. Even though I have not used the one I purchased in flight, I have
lent it out to another RV builder in the area because he makes weekly long
trips. He has nothing but praise for the unit. I did purchase the panel
mount kit for $55 two weeks ago and it will only require me riveting a
small back plane in the panel to get it recessed. Should not be a problem.
The supplied antenna should be sufficient and the unit can be wired direct
with no additional purchase. My only use has been in my vehicle on trips
and it is amazing how effective it is on the road. I purchased it due to
the large size screen and flexibility.
Regards
Charles
N609CG
RV-6A
----------
> From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Skymap II GPS/MAP
> Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 4:10 AM
>
>
> Does anyone have experience with the subject GPS? I like its large
> screen and many features but the price (1599 at Spruce) goes up for
> panel mounting (239), external antenna (385), and autopilot interface
> (459!). Guess I'll settle for a well known brand...VFR version only,
> and hope antenna is included. Is any one VFR GPS or GPS/MAP a best
> value?
>
> Will Cretsinger
> Arlington, TX
> -6A now working brakes
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Internal Antennas |
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Jim:
To add a bit to your post, Tracy also has his GPS antenna mounted under
the engine cowl, just behind the engine,clamped to the mount. I copied
his idea on my last 4, it works great.
Bill Davis, RV-4 N66WD
D
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
>
>J.R.,
>
>Can highly reccomend the Lightspeed 20K. Got two sets about 6 weeks ago.
>Performance is great and they are very comfortable. My wife loves them
>too. The other guys have some catching up to do .
>
I too bought a Lightspeed, the cheaper one 15K I think for my wife. She is
really adverse to noise, and head clamping. She really likes the
lightspeed. I don't care for it, the mike is not as noise cancelling as a
Dave Clark and it is just not as durable as a DC.
I have a DC 10-13xl. Noise canceling stereo. It works really well in the
RV, however in some Warbird types it isn't worth a damn. BE-18 on Takeoff
especially, must be a bad freq for it. I had a 10-40 for years and it was
finally falling apart after about 4000 hours. I put a Headsets inc ANR kit
in it and it is almost as good as the 10-13xl and better in some airplanes.
I have flown with the Bose. Nothing beats it. It really is the cadilac. I
probably should have bought one, but It has too many wires and boxes, and I
am just too Dutch (read cheap). As for the off brand DC knock offs, I have
not used one of them that is worth having. Either bad cords, or noisy
mikes. If you use your Headset alot, my advise is buy a DC and be done with
it. If you want a lightweight low use set The lightspeed may be a good
solution.
Tailwinds, N240
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
<< HOw do you tell the difference in the two solinods? >>
Externally these are the distinctions:
Master Contactors are characterized by their being continuous duty (coil
resistance of 15-20 ohms), one small terminal (10-32 threaded) and two large
terminals (5/16-24 threaded), one of which is marked BAT. The coil is across
the large terminal marked BAT and the small terminal. It is designed to be
closed by applying ground to the small terminal.
Starter Contactors are characterized by their being intermittent duty (coil
resistance of 3-5 ohms), two small terminals (10-32 threaded often marked S
for switch and I for Indicator or load shedding relay) and two large terminals
(5/16-24 threaded). The phenolic cased ones have a mounting bracket designed
to be grounded. This type has a coil across the small terminal marked S and
the mounting bracket. They are designed to be grounded at the mounting
bracket and closed by applying power to the small terminal marked S.
If you need additional info, I have a Word 6 file that I can send you which
discusses system design issues like this for the first timer.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< Need to spend some Christmas money. Anyone used that new Pilot DNR headset?
Looks good and I need a good headset as my cheapest cheapo Softcoms are
falling apart. Softcom ,buy the way ,is a horrible bunch to deal with. Buy
anything before you try their junk----they have no service at all. >>
I just got the Lightspeed 20K headset and it is exceptional. I believe Jim
Cone has these and had also raved about them in the Mid-West flyer. They are
rated at 42dB of total noise reduction in the freq range where engine noise is
most objectionable and fatiguing. $425 from Chief.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
<< I am in the process of selling my RV-6A and am wondering if anyone has run
into any liability
concerns regarding homebuilt aircraft. I have heard of people who would not
sell a homebuilt
because of the danger of lawsuits in case of an accident. Is this something
to worry about?
Is it different in Canada than the US? Comments??? >>
There is the theoretical problem with liability with homebuilts because you
are the manufacturer and all manufacturers' can be sued. I am not aware of
any cases that this has occured although I would conjecture that lawyers might
consider the recent John Denver accident to be a perfect trial case.
The original builder alledgedly deviated from plans in the placement of the
fuel selector valve. John Denver's estate is rich and well known. Do you see
where I'm going with this?
In the real world and with a well built plane, the risk should be minimal and
maybe Canada is less litigious than the U.S. Hell, every place is less
litigious than the U.S., right?
I have a Word 6 file of the sales document I used when I sold my Kitfox. It
is based on the EAA form and I will send it to you if you like.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A question |
. I'm assuming that the main gear on the 8 still mounts
>permanently to the fuselage, and not to the wing. If that's the case,
I'll
>probably just stick with the taildragger version.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Russell Duffy
>rad(at)pen.net
>Pensacola, FL
>RV-8 order soon
>
Russell,
In the RV-8, the gear mounts to the fuselage...at least I hope so! I'm
working on the wings for my -8 now...(hmm...they didn't tuck the gear
legs inside the wing kit crate somewhere now did they? ;)
Welcome to the -8 fraternity! (My proactive apologies to any female -8
builders!)
Please feel free to ask anything else about the -8 that come to
mind..I'm glad to help..as are the rest of this fine group of
builders/aviators. (Aviatrixes?? Drat! There I go again...tis so hard to
be politically correct nowadays)
Brian Denk
Albuquerque, NM
-8 #379 wings
will the dimpling ever end???
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | -8 tank skin to baffle rivet line |
g'day folks,
In my deburring and dimpling session this past week..I mistakenly
dimpled the tank skin to tank baffle rivet line (brain fart!)..and it
says in the instructions to countersink the skin..or, at least I THINK
that's what I was supposed to do!
Anyway, is it OK to leave the dimples, and countersink the baffle
flange? Or, flatten out the dimples in the skin and countersink as I
should have done in the first place? Countersinking those skins just
doesn't seem right to me...too thin.
Thanks in advance, and Happy New Year!
Brian Denk
-8 wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
Say What?? I'm a Tech Counselor and have been telling builders that they'll
get a discount if they have at least three visits by a TC before flight. If
that isn't so I want to know. I'll call Avemco tomorrow but I gotta ask you
if you're SURE about that.
john
>When I mentioned the discount for having the EAA Tech Counselor provide
>3 inspections, Avemco said the EAA keeps saying that, but it was never
>approved by Avemco and is not given.
>John kitz
>N721JK
>Ohio
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
I'm not Scott but I'll take a stab at it for you.
The Start solenoid is activated by applying 12 volts (+) to the small
terminal. The master solenoid is activated by grounding out the small
terminal (12 volts '-'). Also, the master solenoid is rated for continuous
duty while the start solenoid is only a limited duty switch. Makes sense,
right??
john
>
>Scott:
>HOw do you tell the difference in the two solinods?
>
>Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx~~
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RMille6453 <RMille6453(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: -8 tank skin to baffle rivet line |
Hi Brian,
I did the same thing and on the the right wing, when I should have known
better. Dont flatten out your dimples, just dimple the baffle too. I did and
it worked out just fine, use plenty of proseal.
Rob Miller
RV8 Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A-408 Aileron spar reenforcement |
On Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Fran Malczynski wrote:
>
> Brian, I too puzzeled over this. I was looking for a .040 piece of metal
> to cut. I finally found four pieces of the .040 2 1/2 x 2 3/4 in bag
> 419.
>
Thanks to everybody, must have looked at this 10 times with out seeing
it.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
The weight and balance are fine. It only occurs at higher speeds (170
+), and more so when I have the back seat filled with a 200+ passenger.
I thought it was a common thing, to have to adjust the horizontal
stabilizer a little, if it didn't trim out correctly. I have it at the
forward stop when I am alone, which is fine. Add a passenger and it is
no longer enough. The cable is not out of adjustment as there is quite
a bit of trim tab kicked in (I did not measure the degrees). I don't
believe you should have to kick in full deflection of the trim tab for
straight and level flight, no matter how it is loaded. Before, when
solo, I allways had more than enough nose up trim (takeoff and
landing), so I believe it would be correct to adjust the leading edge of
the stabilizer up, as the manual suggests. Since everything else seems
to be correct, I feel that I don't have any other options, except to put
a larger trim tab on it. Is it correct to think little trim adjustment
should be necessary at cruise, or rather little trim tab deflection from
a neutral position? Help me out here, because I'm doing it tomorrow if
the weather holds up. Thanks. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Filler Door Fastening - RV-4 |
RV4131rb wrote:
> riveted a hinge on the inside of the cowl for the lower latch, I simply pull
a
> pin on the inside of the cowl for my release. I have seen others do this with
> 2 hinges pulling both allows you to remove the whole door. Either way will
> provide a very nice installation. I never provided a means of safetying mine
> because it never has migrated at all. It would be easy to rivet on a clip
> inside the cowl to keep it from migrating though.
Extend the pin/wire to the air inlet area using alum tubing fiberglassed
to the upper cowl. Then put a .75" inch or so circle/360 bend in the
wire a couple inches from the end followed by a 90 degree bend about .5"
from the very end. The 'circle/360' acts as a spring relief and the bent
end goes into a hole in the upper inlet 'ramp' to secure the wire/pin.
To open the door just reach behind the prop into the inlet, pull the
wire out of its hole and then out of the air inlet enough to allow the
door to open. Do both pins this way as Ryan said, and the whole door can
be removed if needed (great for reaching in to get the upper f'wall
pins). No fasteners show, and people constantly ask how you open the
door. You just smile at them...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
> I am in the process of selling my RV-6A and am wondering if anyone
>has run into any liability concerns regarding homebuilt aircraft. I have
>heard of people who would not sell a homebuilt because of the danger of
>lawsuits in case of an accident. Is this something to worry about? Is it
>different in Canada than the US? Comments??? Ted FrenchRV-6A flying
If I had the money Ted, Yours would sit next to Ray & mine anyday!! Good job!
The best for 98 *** Ed H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Elevator |
Michael C. Lott wrote:
>
>
> I called Van's with the same problem several months ago. I believe I
> spoke to Tom. He said that it would cause no flight problems and was
> fairly common. I flew with it and have had no problems (45 hours now,
> up to 210 mph.). Good luck.
Ditto. I flew a -4 with quite a bit of twist in the elev. Don't know how
much -didn't measure (an inch -mabye more?), but I could see it with the
plane sitting on the ground (had to look close). Was concerned about
it... but it trimmed out really well. Stalled straight ahead. No
problem. This plane (luckily) also had the twist in the 'proper'
direction to counter spiral slipstream.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
> << Need to spend some Christmas money. Anyone used that new Pilot DNR
headset?
Uhm... DNR usually means "Do Not Resuscitate." A funny mis-speak. :-)
> I just got the Lightspeed 20K headset and it is exceptional. $425 from
Chief.
>
> -GV
I just checked on AVWeb. Avionics West sells the Lightspeed 20K online. Their
current price (supposedly only good through December 31) is $405. The e-flyer
I received says you can get more information at:
www.avweb.com/programs/infosub.cgi/sponsors/avionics/litspord.html
You might have to signup on AVWeb to see this page, but don't worry, it's free
and doesn't take a minute to do.
Rod Woodard RV-8, #80033 Loveland, Colorado
t people would just
sue their estate.
As somebody already mentioned, you have potential liability stemming from the
fact that _you_ are the manufacturer. In theory somebody could sue you if
something went wrong with the airplane you manufactured at some point down the
road. The fuel selector in John Denver's plane is a good example that's
already been mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody sued you even if
you followed the plans exactly, right down to the last rivet. It'd just be
called faulty craftmanship instead of faulty design.
Heck, I read a case where some idiot ran out of gas in a light twin. He didn't
handle it well and everybody on board died in the crash landing. The families
of the decedents sued the airplane manufacturer for designing an overly
complicated fuel system. In another case, a different idiot won a case against
Piper because his 1940-whatever Cub didn't have a shoulder harness--an obvious
safety hazard. They could have issued an AD _requiring a shoulder harness,
after all.
Somebody also mentioned that you might have some protection if you
incorporate. The problem with this is that your plane was built by YOU and not
the corporation. YOU still have the manufacturer's liability. An interesting
twist might be to have the corporation build the airplane. I doubt this would
fly however, (yes, that's a pun) because of the 51% rule. The corporation
could hire you to build the plane for you, but it'd be no different than if
you hired somebody else to build your airplane--if the FAA wanted to get
tough, I think they could deny your airworthiness certificate based on the 51%
rule.
If you ever decide to own an airplane with a partner, some sort of corporate
structure would probably be appropriate. In an old-fashioned partnership, you
are generally liable for the acts of your partner as if you had done them
yourself. E.g. your partner crashes into a playground filled with
schoolchildren while trying an outside loop in your Cherokee 140. Everybody in
sight sues BOTH of you. If, however, you're incorporated, you are a
shareholder and your "partner" is a shareholder. Except for some tax-related
exceptions, your liability as a shareholder is limited to your investment in
the company. I.e., you could lose the value of your share of the airplane, but
your house and personal retirement fund should be safe.
Truly the only way for you to completely avoid potential liablity for selling
a homebuilt aircraft is to never sell a homebuilt aircraft. Realizing that
this isn't realistic for everybody all the time, I would suggest a very
strongly-worded disclaimer agreement where the buyer assumes all
responsibility for the determination of current and future airworthiness. The
buyer should acknowledge that it's a homebuilt aircraft and doesn't comply
with the standards established for factory-built aircraft, etc. [basically
that placard you put in your airplane] You should also include language which
states that you relied on the buyer's assurances and acceptance of these terms
in your decision to sell the airplane. This will help to make the disclaimer a
material part of the bargain. If the buyer has a spouse, you should also make
the spouse sign a disclaimer... spouses and other family members might have
various claims as well.
Somebody mentioned that they've already got an agreement they used to sell
their airplane. If this person would like, he could send me a copy of the
agreement and I would be happy to make suggestions. When I've doctored it up,
I'll repost it to the list and ask for additional suggestions.
I ask a lot from the participants on this list and hope that this might be
something I can do in return for all the valuable building advice I've already
received and will no doubt receive in the future.
Best regards to all,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [and an attorney--no Plaintiff's work, good guy, white hat,
airplane advocate, local airport's attorney, local EAA newsletter editor,
etc.--please no flames!]
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Moradian" <tonym(at)enviroaqua.com> |
| Subject: | Deep Countersink |
What are the methods if any to remedy a machined coutner sink that went too
deep; To the point where the joining dimpled surface has too much play.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Tony Moradian
Empenage #80398
N100TM reserved
tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>For what its worth: My tennis partner is an attorney ( I hate them too ) he
>advised to register the plane in a Corporation, and operate it as a business.
>Let face it I dont think any of us would sell some poor sap, an us safe
>aircraft, but the Corporation does limit your liability, and according to
the
>lawyers unless there is fraud or criminal actions, its difficult to get
>throught what they call the Corporate Veil.
>At the present time I have a Seneca 1 & a partnership in a Piper Arrow. both
>are registered in separate corporations.
>Thats how I was advised.
>Bill
>KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
Darn good advice for spam cans. The problem here is not the owning which
gets you caught in the liability trap, but the building. My Grummans are
owned per above suggestions. 1 for 12 years and one for 6 months. This
limits my personal liability but does not release me from the need for
liabilty insurance.
I tried to get the FAA to sign off a homebuilt in a Corporate name, and
they said no dice. They require the *BUILDER'S* name to be on the
certificate and will accept no other arrangement. When I tried to explain
that I had formed the corporation to buy the materials and that the
corporation owned the plane and I just wanted the corporation to be on the
certificate for the liability aspect, and that I as the builder was willing
to sign what ever they wanted in the way of forms, they brought out the
regs and showed me where it says that we build these machines for
educational and recreational purposes, and said that corporations don't
build "amateur built" airplanes. End of discussion with FAA.
I've seen numerous homebuilt aircraft advertised as "components" with no
airworthiness certificate. I don't see how they could be relicensed, since
the purchaser clearly didn't build 51% of anything. A local FBO auctioned
off a homebuilt which they attached in a financial squabble. The builder
did not supply the paperwork to them or the new owners (why should he?).
It brought a fairly low price, about what one might pay for a used engine.
This was over a year ago, and last I heard the FSDO was *NOT* going to
issue a new airworthiness for this plane since the current owner didn't
build it.
Where does this leave the builder who sells his plane? Probably in a
position to either dismantle it and declare it unairworthy and get little
better than salvage price for it with nearly no liability, or sell it
intact with all paperwork and get the good price and take the liability
risk. It might be possible to require the subsequent owner to carry
liability insurance for you as part of the contract to sell. It seems that
this was the route Commander Aircraft took when they began building the
Rockwell Commander singles again some years back. You had to agree to
carry 1 million dollars insurance to protect COMMANDER as part of the sales
deal. Why would one want to sell their pride and joy anyway? I
couldn't even bear to part with my 23 YO spam can when I bought my newer one!
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Std. RV6 engine cowl for sale |
| From: | gretz-aero(at)juno.com (Warren Gretz) |
Greetings to all.
I have deceided to sell my standard RV6 engine cowl. It has never been
installed, no damage or scratches. I am in the Metro Denver area, so it
would be best if someone within driving distance of Denver wanted it to
save on shipping cost. Van's sells this cowl for $450 as part of the
finish kit plus shipping. I will sell my cowl for $400 plus shipping.
I have deceided to bite the bullet and go for the very high priced
optional cowl.
You may contact me by phone at the number below durring the day,
enenings, or weekends until Jan. 5. After Jan. 5 try me in the evening or
weekends. E-mail works great anytime also.
Warren Gretz
3664 E. Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
gretz-aero(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Twisted Elevator |
>
>> I called Van's with the same problem several months ago. I believe I
>> spoke to Tom. He said that it would cause no flight problems and was
>> fairly common. I flew with it and have had no problems (45 hours
now,
>> up to 210 mph.). Good luck.
>
>Ditto. I flew a -4 with quite a bit of twist in the elev. Don't know
how
>much -didn't measure (an inch -mabye more?), but I could see it with
the
>plane sitting on the ground (had to look close). Was concerned about
>it... but it trimmed out really well. Stalled straight ahead. No
>problem. This plane (luckily) also had the twist in the 'proper'
>direction to counter spiral slipstream.
>
>Scott
>N4ZW
>
>
Hah!
Brings to mind Rutan's "Boomerrang" (sp?). Talk about an asymmetrical,
flyin freak 'o nature! Just goes to show ya..even the plastic airplane
guys get 'em crooked every now and then.
Back to the dimpling.
Brian Denk
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Deep Countersink |
Maybe redrill and dimple for the next size rivet.
Maybe drill same size hole in some thin scrap, cut a tiny donut around the
hole, dimple it, and place it between the two surfaces. Use a flat piece of
stock as a backing plate if the countersunk piece has an aversized hole
(likely).
Good luck
Dennis Clay
#80473 emp near completion,
wings Jan 19 yea
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
I was given a discount or at least told I was getting a discount. I was also
given insurance for my first 10 hours based on the fact that I had used the
EAA Advisor and Tech programs or again so I was told. They gave me a quote and
when I informed them (Avemco/Natioal) that I had used the Tech Coun. program I
was given a reduced price. Do not remember amount. Also, after accumulating
accident free time my rates dropped a little more. Let's try and get to the
bottom of this. Still, even without the benifits of lower insurance the Tech
Coun. is a good program. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
AVEMCO said that they gave me a discount on my insurance. I had 3 + T.C.
visits, Flight Advisor, and Flight Training in Van's prototype. The info
for New EAA Tech Counselor dated September 25, 1996 sign by Janet Kloes
has an attachments that states: "This past summer Avemco Insurance
Company recognized the EAA Technical Counselor Program by announcing
premium discounts on any aircraft that was inspected by an EAA Technical
Counselor three times during the building process." AVEMCO does
advertise in the EAA Flight Advisor Newsletter. (see Vol. 4, Issue 4).
The last page states: "Flight Advisor materials made possible by a grant
from AVEMCO insurance company." The ad on page 6 lists their address
as: http://www.avemco.com. I did not see anything there about a discount
but they do have a form to fill out for a price quote. One of our
chapter members reported a $200 savings per year on his C-172 by being an
EAA Chapter member. Keep us posted.
Gary A. Sobek
EAA Tech Counselor
FAA A&P
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
writes:
>
>Say What?? I'm a Tech Counselor and have been telling builders that
they'll
>get a discount if they have at least three visits by a TC before flight.
If
>that isn't so I want to know. I'll call Avemco tomorrow but I gotta ask
you
>if you're SURE about that.
>
>john
>
>
>
>>When I mentioned the discount for having the EAA Tech Counselor provide
>>3 inspections, Avemco said the EAA keeps saying that, but it was never
>>approved by Avemco and is not given.
>>John kitz
>>N721JK
>>Ohio
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>Seattle WA USA
>1974 1/2 JH-5
>RV-6 N16JA
>First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< but were they as good as the Bose? I doubt it. You always get what
you paid for. >>
Try them out for yourself and compare. Yes, with the Bose you got the first
good ANRs but you also paid for the name too. Some like the Bose despite the
cost. I didn't like the weight, feel or appearance of them.
I think the Lightspeed is a nice setup so give them a chance. Perhaps they
are inferior to the Bose but I have yet to see a true comparison of the two
based on performance alone. I've used both and my gut tells me they're real
comparable.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Hi Rod:
Thanks for the details on the Corporation Regitration - My tennis partner is
also my business attorney but he is not a Pilot just come along for the ride
most of the time.
I'm gonna run the 51% at him today and also question the local FSDO ( they
won't know much but could get some answers, two of the new guys up there are
retired
NYC Police Officers Aviation Unit's that worked with my brother )
Could the builder sell the aircraft to the Corporation, with some type of hold
harmless
agreement - I'm streaching here. ?
Thanks Again
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Std. RV6 engine cowl for sale |
Guys
I must be in a closet - ( No just waiting about 12 weeks for my wing kit )
What is the diffrence in the 450.00 cowl & the High priced one. & the price
diffrence.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
ANy one have a ball park figure on Insurance for the RV6 for the year? and did
anyone take out the AVEMCOpolicy on the kit during construction. I think they
wanted $149.00 for the year.
Thanks Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
who
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Rod,
Great post! I'd also like to see your version of an agreement......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>Hi Ted:
>
>Finally, a question I'm at least marginally capable of answering. :-)
>
***** SNIP *****
>
>Somebody mentioned that they've already got an agreement they used to
sell
>their airplane. If this person would like, he could send me a copy of
the
>agreement and I would be happy to make suggestions. When I've doctored
it up,
>I'll repost it to the list and ask for additional suggestions.
>
>I ask a lot from the participants on this list and hope that this might
be
>something I can do in return for all the valuable building advice I've
already
>received and will no doubt receive in the future.
>
>Best regards to all,
>
>Rod Woodard
>RV-8, #80033 [and an attorney--no Plaintiff's work, good guy, white hat,
>airplane advocate, local airport's attorney, local EAA newsletter
editor,
>etc.--please no flames!]
>Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
From: WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com>
>Truly the only way for you to completely avoid potential liablity for
selling
>a homebuilt aircraft is to never sell a homebuilt aircraft. Realizing that
>this isn't realistic for everybody all the time, I would suggest a very
>strongly-worded disclaimer agreement where the buyer assumes all
>responsibility for the determination of current and future airworthiness.
The
>buyer should acknowledge that it's a homebuilt aircraft and doesn't comply
>with the standards established for factory-built aircraft, etc. [basically
>that placard you put in your airplane] You should also include language
which
>states that you relied on the buyer's assurances and acceptance of these
terms
>in your decision to sell the airplane. This will help to make the
disclaimer a
>material part of the bargain. If the buyer has a spouse, you should also
make
>the spouse sign a disclaimer... spouses and other family members might have
>various claims as well.
>
Rod,
This is all very good information, but (there is always a 'but' somewhere)
what can be done to protect the builder from the second, third, or fourth
buyer down the road? In the many discussions we have on this subject during
my EAA Chapter meetings, we have not been made aware of any steps that can
be taken to protect ourselves. My concern about selling (heaven forbid!)
my -6 is not about whether the buyer is going to come back against me, but
the buyers who come after him.
My answer to this problem, if I can afford it when the time comes and my
sons don't want the airplane, is to give the plane to a museum. One local
builder gave his Homebuilt to a library and it is now hanging from the
ceiling.
Thanks for the info.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wing spars)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Batteries and Starters |
>
>In the rvator articles circa 1992 there was one about installing a 17AH
>gell cell battery in Vans
>'s RV. I elected to go this route so that I could mount the battery on
>the foreward side of the firewall. I have installed one of the
>lightweight starters advertised in numerous publications under the
>heading "HOMEBUILDERS LOOK''. The starter will not spin the engine fast
>enough to start. I have a newly rebuilt H2AD (9:1 compression ratio). I
>am using #4 cables. If I jumper from my truck the starter spins fast
>enough. Sounds like I need a stronger battery but before I do that, does
>anyone have any experience with this battery and/or starter or any other
>words of wisdom?
What brands are the battery and starter? I know of tests done with
the B&C starter, and a 10 a.h. battery jumper-cabled to a hopped
up IO-360 that produced 5 cranking sequences in a row before the
battery started to show signs of weakening. It seems likely that
your battery is suspect.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: -8 tank skin to baffle rivet line |
Brian Denk wrote:
>
> Anyway, is it OK to leave the dimples, and countersink the baffle
> flange? Or, flatten out the dimples in the skin and countersink as I
> should have done in the first place? Countersinking those skins just
> doesn't seem right to me...too thin.
Leave them alone. They'll be a little harder to place before rivetting,
but the flanges will flex enough for them to pop into place. The
dimples will scrape some Proseal off the flange, so plan ahead and paint
some extra Proseal around the dimples. You can dimple the baffle
without causing problems, too. Press on.
PatK - RV-6A
olicy on the kit during construction. I think they
wanted $149.00 for the year.
Thanks Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
>
>Bob
>the relay gets hot enough that you would not want to hold it in your
>hand very long. I checked the part number and it's the continous duty
>relay. If you think this is the way it should be I will leave it.
>If there is something else I should check let me know.
>
>Thanks
>Craig Hiers
Nope. Everything sounds normal for that part.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns and Airworthiness Certificates |
I bought my plane from the estate of the deceased builder and a middle
man. I got no airworthiness certificate, and on the bill of sale it
listed only a kit and parts of a kit, nothing about an rv-4. It had
been issued a airworthiness certificate but never flew, as the builder
died before he completed it. The family and the middle man would give
me no evidence or paperwork showing the plane had ever been completed,
as they believed this would protect them from any liability problems. I
did take pictures of the plane before we dismantled it, incase i ever
needed proof of anything. I helped dismantle the plane and hauled it
home. It caused a little ruckus with the FAA when I tried to get it
registered with a new N-number. (It already had an N-number, too.) I
talked to the inspector about it when he came to inspect the plane and
when I told him the whole truth (I was hesitant) about the life of the
plane, he insisted the only way to do it was put the builder's name on
the certificate, not mine. I got a new certificate issued and a new
N-number, and had to tell the FAA what caused the problem. (My
ignorance?) They said it would be no problem to straighten out the
paperwork with the new number and certificate. The ringer was that the
FAA said all I had to do was tell them the n-number in the first place
and I could have gotten the original certificate re-issued, asked for a
new n-number, and flown the plane. No inspection would have been
necessary. (And I could have saved 450.00 and a big headache with the
DAR). They said the builder's estate never de-activated the
certificate, and since I had legal posession of the plane now, they
never could. I am just telling you my experience so it might help
someone else who is buying or selling a homebuilt. Michael Lott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A question |
>Welcome ( you all) (to the -8 fraternity)! (My proactive apologies to any
female -8
>builders!)
>Please (yawl)feel free to ask anything else about the -8 that comes to (yawls)
>mind..I'm glad to help..as are the rest of this fine group of
>(builders/aviators)(ya'lls). (Aviatrixes?? Drat! There I go again...tis so
hard to
>be politically correct nowadays)
>
>Brian Denk
See why us southerners invented ya'll or yawl or you all? It is non
specific of anything and makes us politically correct before its' time. So
much more political correct than youse guys.:-)
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A question |
>Welcome ( you all) (to the -8 fraternity)! (My proactive apologies to any
female -8
>builders!)
>Please (yawl)feel free to ask anything else about the -8 that comes to (yawls)
>mind..I'm glad to help..as are the rest of this fine group of
>(builders/aviators)(ya'lls). (Aviatrixes?? Drat! There I go again...tis so
hard to
>be politically correct nowadays)
>
>Brian Denk
See why us southerners invented ya'll or yawl or you all? It is non
specific of anything and makes us politically correct before its' time. So
much more political correct than youse guys.:-)
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
litigation?
5. that EAA will give you names of lawyers near you for you to contact for
assistance.
6. that you takes your money and takes your chances!
Since the original post, I've been looking for a flying mag. some one sent
me with an article about this. It had what I thought was an iron clad
document in it. Then they went on to show just how full of holes it really
was and in essence re-iterated what I had obtained from other sources.
I sold my plane, but I still feel as if the trap door to my long underwear
is open.
I am interested in what you come up with.
Press on!
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
A long long time ago (1990) I had a demo flight at Oshkosh with Van at
the helm of the original RV-6. When we landed (Fond du lac) I was
somewhat dismayed by all the oil canning and thumping and drumming
coming from the rear fuselage area. Of course the runway was not the
smoothest in the world.
Anyway I vowed that my own RV would be a little quieter in that area.
Another builder who was skinning his fuse at that time had noticed the
same thing and placed additional stiffeners on some of the big sections
of flat skin in the rear belly/tail cone area. A great idea. I had the
chance to fly in his finished machine and marveled at the much quieter
airplane while the tail wheel was on the ground.
So, I did the same thing and had the same results. End of story???? No.
While cleaning the oil off the belly last week I noticed a dark oil
stain running 90 degrees to the fuselage center line. What I found was
a crack coming from the last rivet on each additional stiffener I had
installed.
I have about 230 hours on the hobbs. I checked the other RV-6 that I was
built the same way and found the same cracks. That airframe has about
280 hours on it.
I certainly wouldn't do it again. If any builders out there have made a
similar mod or are contemplating something similar, check with Vans
first. If flying I would recommend a close inspection of the rear tail
cone bottom skin.
Terry Jantzi
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6ToBuild <RV6ToBuild(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Problems with the RV6 Plans |
I found very early on that the plans for the RV6 should NOT be followed
exactly. I have only been building for a couple of months now and have had
problems because of the plans. I have learned to only consult with the plans.
I have saved myself lots of problems sense I have learned that. Bottom line
the Aircraft needs to be built strait, light weight and structurly sound, and
That is the Responsibility of the Builder, plans or no plans. However it sure
would have been nice to know the plans were for refferance only, before I
started.
I would recomend that each and every one of you look at the AC43.13. This
book is one that no builder or mechanic should be with out.
Good Luck and happy building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling Gear to 6A |
Am preparing for the gear drilling aspect of the build and would
appreciate advice from them who been there. I have adequate room for
positioning wings in the carry-thru and have the "long center" bits in
3/16 and 1/4 from Avery. Justice Notes mention need for 2" long
threaded bits for angle drill and 12" long 3/16 bit.
I don't mind purchasing these but would rather not if they are not
needed. Thanks in advance for advice on the above and any gear-drilling
tips y'all'd like to share.
Jim 6A Fuselage SW New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
> Could the builder sell the aircraft to the Corporation, with some type of
> hold harmless agreement - I'm streaching here. ?
>
> Thanks Again
>
> Bill
Hi Bill,
Please, don't "streach." I hear it's bad for you. :-)
Selling your completed airplane to a corporation could add another layer of
people (and things) for a plaintiff to sue, but you'd still be left with the
problem that YOU are the manufacturer. Up until recently, people still sued
Piper after an aircraft had changed hands over and over for 50 years. Rotten,
I agree.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Since there is apparently not a whole lot a guy can do to assure complete
freedom from possible litigation when selling a homebuilt, maybe we can at
least look at the odds. Has anybody out there heard of or been involved in
litigation arising from the sale of an experimental? Is there any way to find
out? Would Mr. Woodard, as an attorney, have access to statistics such as
these? This might help us determine individually whether we want to take the
risk or not.
Von Alexander
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
> This is all very good information, but (there is always a 'but' somewhere)
> what can be done to protect the builder from the second, third, or fourth
> buyer down the road?
>>BIG SNIP<<
> Thanks for the info.
>
> Gary Baker
> RV-6 (Working on wing spars)
> N4GB (Reserved)
> Medina, OH
Hi Gary,
You are correct. There is potential liability no matter how many times the A/C
changes hands. The good news is that you'd most likely have a better defense
everytime a new owner takes control of the plane. A plaintiff would have to
show that the reason the A/C fell apart and crashed was that _you_ did
something wrong in the building. Given the experimental nature of the A/C,
you'd be able to defend by saying, "but buyer B, C, and D all modified the
airplane I originally produced." "I can't be responsible for their
modifications." "In fact, with that number of owners, I can't begin to know
what modifications they've made..." It's still a problem, but you'd have a
little more wiggling room.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
a
chicken...
Fact is that we ultimately rely on juries to enforce these agreements.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. There's never a shortage of scumbag
attorneys who're willing to take such a case, so we have to count on the
juries to throw them out on their ear. Personally, when somebody comes in to
my office with a rotten case where they just want to extort money, I just tell
them no--go look someplace else. Man, could I tell you some stories...
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>>>>Things Snipped<<<<
> Has anybody out there heard of or been involved in
> litigation arising from the sale of an experimental? Is there any way to
> find out? Would Mr. Woodard, as an attorney, have access to statistics such
as
> these? This might help us determine individually whether we want to take
the
> risk or not.
>
> Von Alexander
> MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Fantastic idea, Von. Nobody publishes statistics, as such, but there are
national databases containing all reported cases that I could search. These
searches are VERY expensive, but one of the companies offers a couple of
freebie days per month for attorneys to get familiar with their system and to
do pro bono work. I'll see when the next of these days is and get to work on
the search. The other problem is that these databases will only show those
cases that actually went to trial AND were picked to be reported... Not all
cases end up in print for all the world to see. I would guess that many of
these things settle on the courtroom steps. These wouldn't be reported.
A great idea, though... and not a bad place to start.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [...and I'm way too young to be called MISTER!]
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>Since there is apparently not a whole lot a guy can do to assure complete
>freedom from possible litigation when selling a homebuilt, maybe we can at
>least look at the odds. Has anybody out there heard of or been involved in
>litigation arising from the sale of an experimental? Is there any way to find
>out? Would Mr. Woodard, as an attorney, have access to statistics such as
>these? This might help us determine individually whether we want to take the
>risk or not.
>Von Alexander
>MAlexan533(at)aol.com
One of our local EAA chapter members had built an EZ and sold it some time
later. The new owner didn't make it home from picking it up. He took off
at an intermediate fuel stop with the canopy unlatched and crashed. His
widow found an attorney and sued our member for a whole list of reasons.
She had never even *SEEN* the plane in question, but alleged all manner of
"faults" with the design and construction. Burt Rutan also was sued and
came to town to testify in his behalf and on the member's behalf. Burt
stated clearly to the jury that the EZ would not fly with the canopy open.
He told them it was in the newsletters, in the plans, and marked on the
checklist and on the canopy rail next to the latch.
This was not a "fault", and that the aerodynamics of the EZ prevented it
from flying with the canopy open, so they had designed the canopy latch
with a safety catch which one had to manually disengage to open the canopy
to prevent it from "popping open" accidentally.
The end result was that everyone lost. This poor guy died, his widow was
angry and spent untold $$ for her side's attack, our member and Burt both
spent lots of $$$$$ for their own attorneys and had dozens of sleepless
nights, but at least they didn't loose everything they had worked for to
the plaintiff's attorneys.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
> From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
> > gps/com ($2485 with antenna). The Garmin has nice backlighting for
night
> > flying, which the Skyforce lacks.
>
> Rob,
> Actually, my Skyforce Skymap does have 3 level backlighting.
Bob, thanks for the correction...I must have missed it in the specs.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
<<
I would recomend that each and every one of you look at the AC43.13. This
book is one that no builder or mechanic should be with out.
What is it? Where do I get it? How much does it cost?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
Qmax LLC wrote:
>
> I would recomend that each and every one of you look at the AC43.13. This book
is one that no builder or mechanic should be with out.
>
> What is it? Where do I get it? How much does it cost?
It is an official description of standards of quality for aircraft
repair. About 500 pages.
It is available from RV-Ation Bookstore. The cost is $18.95 plus $4 for
priority mail shipping.
Contact RV-ation bookstore at:
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
970 887-2207
970-887-2197 fax
PO Box 270
Tabernash, CO 80478
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (bruce d stobbe) |
>The good news is that you'd most likely have a better
>defense everytime a new owner takes control of the plane. A plaintiff
would
>have to show that the reason the A/C fell apart and crashed was that
_you_ did
>something wrong in the building. Given the experimental nature of the
>A/C,
=============================================================================
The problem as I see it is that if you're sued, you lose - albeit by
varying degrees. Even if you win in court you will have spent thousands
of dollars, countless hours, and years of sleepless nights proving your
case, and none of it is recoverable unless the plaintiffs case is
frivilous (right Rod?). IMHO that is the biggest flaw in our legal
system today, and you are far better off not exposing yourself to the
possibility in the first place, rather than relying on the courts to
protect you, because they won't.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Can you be more specific about some of the major problems you have had.
Also, your experience with other homebuilts that you feel had better
plans, etc.
-----Original Message-----
From: RV6ToBuild [SMTP:RV6ToBuild(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 1997 10:34 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Problems with the RV6 Plans
I found very early on that the plans for the RV6 should NOT be
followed
exactly. I have only been building for a couple of months now
and have had
problems because of the plans. I have learned to only consult
with the plans.
I have saved myself lots of problems sense I have learned that.
Bottom line
the Aircraft needs to be built strait, light weight and
structurly sound, and
That is the Responsibility of the Builder, plans or no plans.
However it sure
would have been nice to know the plans were for refferance only,
before I
started.
I would recomend that each and every one of you look at the
AC43.13. This
book is one that no builder or mechanic should be with out.
Good Luck and happy building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -8 tank skin to baffle rivet line |
Brian,
The only reason for countersinking the skin at the baffle is to make it
easier to install without removing proseal. My EAA chapter does not like
countersinking skins (for obvious reasons), so we have all dimpled both the
skin and the baffle. If you put the tank in a jig and anchor the jig to a
bench, you can put one end of the baffle in and push the skin far enough to
get the other end without removing proseal. It has worked well on at least
ten RV's I know of and we have not had any leaks.
If you are crazy about every rivet, you can lightly touch each dimple with
a countersink to get even a better finish on the rivets.
Good luck!
>
>g'day folks,
>
>In my deburring and dimpling session this past week..I mistakenly
>dimpled the tank skin to tank baffle rivet line (brain fart!)..and it
>says in the instructions to countersink the skin..or, at least I THINK
>that's what I was supposed to do!
>
>Anyway, is it OK to leave the dimples, and countersink the baffle
>flange? Or, flatten out the dimples in the skin and countersink as I
>should have done in the first place? Countersinking those skins just
>doesn't seem right to me...too thin.
>
>Thanks in advance, and Happy New Year!
>
>Brian Denk
>-8 wings
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
RV6ToBuild wrote:
>I found very early on that the plans for the RV6 should NOT be followed
>exactly. I have only been building for a couple of months now and have had
>problems because of the plans.
One of the early skills that an RV builder must develop is the ability to
look at the plans and determine which dimensions are critical and which
ones are not. It was long ago (three years, but it seems like a long time
ago) that I built my Horizontal Stab. I still remember agonizing over
every measurement that was 1/32-inch different from that shown in the
plans. Now I know better. Now I know that just about the only dimension
that matters in the H.S. is the distance between front and rear spars at
the center, and even then you can compensate for a lot of builder error.
Just about the only thing that REALLY matters in the HS is that it be
straight.
I occasionaly remind new local builders that we are not "RV Assemblers",
who merely insert Tab A into Slot B. We are "RV Builders", who must do a
some fabrication and occasionally think for ourselves. It is part of makes
us special, and provides us with the cameraderie that most of us enjoy so
much.
Yes, the plans do not provide all the answers (just wait till you get to
the sliding canopy), but they generally provide enough information for a
BUILDER to figure out what needs to be done. All in all, RV plans are some
of the best, most complete, and most detailed that I've seen.
Best Regards,
dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
The last 10% takes 90% of the time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
<<
I was somewhat dismayed by all the oil canning and thumping and drumming
coming from the rear fuselage area.
Another builder who was skinning his fuse at that time had noticed the
same thing and placed additional stiffeners on some of the big sections
of flat skin in the rear belly/tail cone area. . I marveled at the much
quieter
airplane while the tail wheel was on the ground.
So, I did the same thing and had the same results. End of story???? No.
While cleaning the oil off the belly last week I noticed a dark oil
stain running 90 degrees to the fuselage center line. What I found was
a crack coming from the last rivet on each additional stiffener I had
installed.
I have about 230 hours on the hobbs. I checked the other RV-6 that I was
built the same way and found the same cracks. That airframe has about
280 hours on it.
I certainly wouldn't do it again. If any builders out there have made a
similar mod or are contemplating something similar, check with Vans
first. If flying I would recommend a close inspection of the rear tail
cone bottom skin.
Terry Jantzi
RV-6
>>
Terry,
I added these same stiffners to the belly of my RV-8 fuselage. However, I
used proseal to hold them in place.
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
Hey Paul
Thanks for the reply, I was just asked what the Avemco Policy for the kit
under construction covers - Parts Labor etc.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Listers,
The other day, when I was going through some problems with my
electric flap installation, I ended the discussion with a list of problems
I've found with the kits this year. Well, since it was too darned cold to
work in the garage today, I decided to start working on the rudder
pedals in my shop where it's warm. I mounted the stirrups in their
blocks upside down on my table and aligned them across the bottom.
To my frustration, I could look down the line formed by the stirrup
bottoms and found them crooked. Using a straight edged to get them
set up so the bottoms were dead center and the fronts aligned, one of
the stirrups on the right side was welded about 1/4" off center from the
rest. Again, it looks like someone forgot to use a jig! I wasn't planning
on installing the brakes on the right side right now; but, if I do, there will
be a problem getting things aligned. The left side is just fine.
BTW, I want to thank all of you fellas who responded to questions
about the rudder pedals in the past year. My collection of notes is
paying off! I think I understand what I'm doing! :-) I'll get back to
those electric flap problems in a couple of days. Maybe it'll be warmer
in the garage then. Brrrrrr!
One more thing. A friend of mine was talking with me last night about
the fuel system. I've about decided to use a Facet pump like the one I
have in my Cheetah and will put it on the firewall. I don't like the idea
of the pump in the cabin with me. Anyway, that led to fuel primers. I
don't like the one I have in the Cheetah. He suggested using a valve
on the fuel line between the Facet and the engine fuel pump. I got to
looking at Aircraft Spruce's fuel pumps and discovered a little two way
electric valve on the same two pages! Yessss! I'm going to use the
valve to momentarily open the line to the primer lines on the engine
after I start the boost pump. That should do the job nicely without
having the curse the blasted primer for either being too tight or too
loose. Maybe even do it as the engine spins at start up. It should be
so much easier, and a lot cheaper, than a primer set up. The primer
was twice the price of the $40 valve. Do you fellas see a problem with
it?
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Hi All,
Attorney Rod Woodward has offered to fix up a sales agreement if we get him some
existing ones to start with - what a great offer!
I wonder how large a problem this really is, however. I wonder especially how
often has a builder with a decent sales agreement signed by at least buyer and
spouse been successfully sued?
It would probably be usefull to advise the buyer and relatives that suit would
be extremely unlikely to succeed so that they would be unwilling to pay up front
attorney fees to pursue it.
When I had my Honda shop, a customer sued us because his racing motorcycle's
brakes didn't work well enough to keep him from crashing and breaking his back.
Our attorney took the time to learn something about motorcycle racing - even
attending a race! (He was a bit like Hercule Poirot!). Then he visited the
other attorney who was clueless and they dropped the suit. By the way, when you
race the rule is "YOYO" - "you're on your own". The condition of his "scooter"
was his responsibility. Our insurance convered costs.
Is there builder's insurance that would cover you if you sell?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- "Peace on earth, good will to all RV builders"
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
>>I found very early on that the plans for the RV6 should NOT be followed
>>exactly. I have only been building for a couple of months now and have had
>>problems because of the plans.
I guess all the RV builders have been there and found that. Years ago I
rang up Van's (long distance from New Zealand) quibbling about some
measurement that was out and I was told "Ma'am, the plans are *only* a
guide"!(this in a thick American accent).
No truer word spoken.
Louise Coats
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Call EAA. They have a legal form the buyer signs to minimize liability.
Dennis 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
----------
From: The French's <french@mag-net.com>
Subject: RV-List: Liability concerns
Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 6:49 PM
I am in the process of selling my RV-6A and am wondering if anyone has run
into any liability
concerns regarding homebuilt aircraft. I have heard of people who would not
sell a homebuilt
because of the danger of lawsuits in case of an accident. Is this something
to worry about?
Is it different in Canada than the US? Comments???
Ted French
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tank mount bracket rivets |
I'm deep into the process of sealing the tanks on my 6A over the holidays and it's
really going very well. I'm doing the whole thing by myself and haven't run
into too many hard reaches. For those who haven't done this yet, concerns
are definitely overblown. I do have a question for those further along though.
Is there any reason why the 426-4 rivets specified in the plans are needed
to secure the tank mounting bracket or will 470-4's do? Countersinking those
brackets seems a waste of time.
Thanks in advance
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Robbins" <robm(at)am2.com> |
| Subject: | Liability concerns |
One twist to this thread that hasn't come up is the FAR definition that
allows for the issuance of an experimental homebuilt airworthiness
certificate. It provides that a "person or group of persons" can build the
airplane. Thus, a corporation or LLC could build the airplane. A repairman
certificate is issued to only the "primary builder." Thus a non A&P or IA
operator would sacrifice the benefits of the repairman certificate.
My experience with litigation and airplane accidents is that culpability has
little to do with a plaintiff's case and deep pockets are paramount.
Plaintiff's attorneys "evaluate viable defendants." Most of us would go
broke paying for defense even if we had protective measures in place!
Mitch Robbins
http://am2.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
GV, the starter solenoids suppied by Wicks and many others I've seen only have
one terminal, so not all starter solenoids have two small terminals. I
believe the ones with two terminals are typically used in automotive type
applications. On older Ford vehicles and other applications that have a
resistor wire or ballast resistor feeding 6 volts to the coil and a breaker
point type distributor, the I stands for Ignition. When the contactor is
closed for starting, the Ignition terminal is wired to supply 12 volts direct
to the coil. This improves the spark considerably for starting and but lets
the ignition run on 6 volts when the contactor is open, which doesn't burn up
the points nearly so fast. I don't know exactly how or if the electronic
ignition systems use this. For our purposes, the I terminal would not
typically be used unless one wanted to light up a "starter contactor engaged"
light or something.
Les Williams (the old mechanic turned RV-6AQ builder) Tacoma WA
<< HOw do you tell the difference in the two solinods? >>
Starter Contactors are characterized by their being intermittent duty (coil
resistance of 3-5 ohms), two small terminals (10-32 threaded often marked S
for switch and I for Indicator or load shedding relay) and two large terminals
(5/16-24 threaded). The phenolic cased ones have a mounting bracket designed
to be grounded. This type has a coil across the small terminal marked S and
the mounting bracket. They are designed to be grounded at the mounting
bracket and closed by applying power to the small terminal marked S.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
> The primer
> was twice the price of the $40 valve. Do you fellas see a problem with
> it?
Got one in my -6A. Of course, it's not flying yet...
Don't see the problem with the Facet pump in the cockpit where Van says to put
it... you've got fuel lines in there with you anyway, going to the selector.
If you spring a pressurized leak in the cockpit, shut off the Facet and hope
the engine pump doesn't suck too much air!?
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | morristec(at)icdc.com |
RV>> I would recomend that each and every one of you look at the AC43.13. Thi
RV>It is available from RV-Ation Bookstore. The cost is $18.95 plus $4 for
RV>priority mail shipping.
RV>Contact RV-ation bookstore at:
RV>winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
RV>970 887-2207
RV>970-887-2197 fax
RV>PO Box 270
RV>Tabernash, CO 80478
Don't forget to get both 43-13-1a and 43-13-2a. They are sold
separately, and you should have both.
Dan
December 21, 1997 - December 30, 1997
RV-Archive.digest.vol-dy