RV-Archive.digest.vol-dz
December 30, 1997 - January 05, 1998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Someone else has already suggested proseal. I will suggest that one might use
the 3M tape that has been discussed here before. I have a tin canning area on
the bottom of my QB where I plan on mounting a J stringer using this tape.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
While cleaning the oil off the belly last week I noticed a dark oil
stain running 90 degrees to the fuselage center line. What I found was
a crack coming from the last rivet on each additional stiffener I had
installed.
I have about 230 hours on the hobbs. I checked the other RV-6 that I was
built the same way and found the same cracks. That airframe has about
280 hours on it.
I certainly wouldn't do it again. If any builders out there have made a
similar mod or are contemplating something similar, check with Vans
first. If flying I would recommend a close inspection of the rear tail
cone bottom skin.
Terry Jantzi
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>
>Since there is apparently not a whole lot a guy can do to assure complete
>freedom from possible litigation when selling a homebuilt, maybe we can at
>least look at the odds. Has anybody out there heard of or been involved in
>litigation arising from the sale of an experimental? Is there any way to find
>out? Would Mr. Woodard, as an attorney, have access to statistics such as
>these? This might help us determine individually whether we want to take the
>risk or not.
>
>Von Alexander
>MAlexan533(at)aol.com
I totally agree. I sold my first homebuilt ten years ago. My lawyer, now
the chief
justice of the Indiana Supreme Court gave me this advice:
1) Nothing can prevent you from being sued if someone wants to sue you.
2) The likelyhood of someone winning is small unless gross negligence is
involved because
of the "Implied Risk". The buyer knows, because of the big
"EXPERIMENTAL" pasted in his
face, that he is buying an airplane that was not professionally built.
3) In the sales contract, state that it's an experimental airplane and that
you make no
warranties what so ever. (There is some legal mumbo jumbo for saying
this correctly.)
I doubt seriously that even John Denver's lawyers would be able to
successfully sue the builder.
However, that may not stop them from at least trying and that would cost the
builder legal fees regardless.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets-GO ANR |
I purchased the new Falcon ANR headset from Pacific Coast Avionics in
November. They were the cheapest ANR units that I had found, the show
special I got was $279. I was actually shopping for another Flightcom
Blackhawk (my ex got the other one). At that price I didn't want to do the
mod to my old headsets and for less than a hundred more than passive units
I had ANR.
I didn't try the Bose or any high end units that I wasn't going to buy
anyway. I did compare them to the Flightcom units that were a hundred
bucks more. The Flightcom's worked fine, I have used Flightcom passive
headsets for years because they have worked well for me. I bought the
Falcon because of the price.
For those of you that have never compared active noise canceling headsets
with passive units IN THE PLANE (like I did after I bought it), don't do it
unless you have the money to spend 'cause you'll spend it anyway. I
changed headsets back and forth several times because I almost didn't
believe the difference between my good passive units and the ANR. With the
prices down to what they are now it won't be long until passive noise
canceling headsets are a thing of the past
Mike McGee N6358G
Vancouver, WA jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N595CM <N595CM(at)aol.com> |
Jim,
I do not have a primer on my 4 and I have never had the need for one. Even
starting on teen degree days my engine starts by 4 blades. I thought during
construction I would not put one on unless I found out later that I needed one
and it payed off. Why put something on a plane that is not needed especially
in the fuel system. I think you will find this to be the general concensis
among RVers. Anyway like I said you can always add it later if there is a need
but I bet if you put it on you will not need it.
Chris May
RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
<< Anyway I vowed that my own RV would be a little quieter in that area.
Another builder who was skinning his fuse at that time had noticed the
same thing and placed additional stiffeners on some of the big sections
of flat skin in the rear belly/tail cone area. A great idea. I had the
chance to fly in his finished machine and marveled at the much quieter
airplane while the tail wheel was on the ground. >>
You would have been better off adding visco-elastic damping material (E.A.R.
makes the stuff) to the inside of the skin areas to reduce the oil canning
instead of reducing the area over which the oil canning can resolve itself.
By stiffening the area you raised the resonant frequency and made the problem
worse in a more confined transition area. Damping material actually turns the
vibrational energy into heat over a large area and dissipates it.
-GV
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
<< What is it? Where do I get it? How much does it cost? >>
Call Avery's.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Inspections and Insurance |
>
>
>
>
What exactly is covered by an insurance policy on the kit? I have never
heard of such a policy. Wouldn't your homeowners policy cover any damage
from fire, flood, tornado, acts of god, etc.?
Bill Pagan
-8A Empennage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Navaid location RV6A |
Am planning on installing a Navaid A/P.
Is there any advantage to installing the servo in the left wing Vs right
wing.?
Have read where it was put on the outboard rib with a long control tube
to the aileron bell crank. I would prefer to mount it closer to the bell
crank.
Does anyone have a dwg.of the mounting tray required and the attachment
of same to the rib[s].Where does one drill the mounting hole in the bell
crank to attach the rod end,is this a No. 10 thd.?
Is the only answer to this problem to buy the servo from Navaid now and
the other parts in 18 months[wishfull thinking]. It would be nice to
have the mounting arrangement done now before I close up the left
wing[imminent].Navaid kindly sent me instructions but they only show
fuselage mtg.of the servo.
Thanks
Derek Reed 6A[old kit.doing things the hard way!]
dreed(at)cdsnet.net Grants Pass OR.
________________________________________________________________________________
Today I was surfing-shopping for a Garmin GPS III. Street price: $700.
Non-aviation GPS III: $350. I'm sure the non-aviation unit has no
airport or navaid data. Does anyone out there know if the database from
an aviation unit can by copied to the non-aviation unit? They both seem
identical in physical features; but since one says "airplane" its price
doubles.
Thanks,
Bob Japundza
Integrated Information Services, LLC
bjapundza@iis-intellect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
Paul Osterman III wrote:
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Just got my renewal from Avemco for my construction policy. They said they
> base it on the value of the parts sitting in the garage which currently
> include Empennage, wing & fuselage. No finishing kit, engine or avionics.
> Price for 1998 is $182.
Doesn't your homeowners policy cover the contents of your home?
Mine does.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A question |
John Darby wrote:
>
>
> >Welcome ( you all) (to the -8 fraternity)! (My proactive apologies to any
> female -8
> >builders!)
> >Please (yawl)feel free to ask anything else about the -8 that comes to (yawls)
> >mind..I'm glad to help..as are the rest of this fine group of
> >(builders/aviators)(ya'lls). (Aviatrixes?? Drat! There I go again...tis so
> hard to
> >be politically correct nowadays)
> >
> >Brian Denk
>
> See why us southerners invented ya'll or yawl or you all? It is non
> specific of anything and makes us politically correct before its' time. So
> much more political correct than youse guys.:-)
Just remember one thing however. The Pilgrims landed on our shores and
not the souths. We learned to talk as they did. You bought the slaves and
learned to talk as they did.:-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Skymap II GPS/MAP |
Will Cretsinger wrote:
> Does anyone have experience with the subject GPS?
Thanks to everyone who replied. I feel that a panel mount GPS is needed
for the NavAid autopilot and I will go with the Skymap II. I will use
the provided antenna mounted it on the glare shield. I do not
understand the difference between the panel mount ($55) and the rack
mount ($239). I do want it flush with my Engine Information System
(EIS) and Terra com/txpndr.
Will Cretsinger
Arlington, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Inspections and Insurance |
Gary,
You're right, it's free money to Avemco, but for us folks in rural areas
served by an ALL volunteer fire departments (you know, regular working guys
with jobs), and a fire hydrant I don't know how far away, Avemco's policy
will pick-up where homeowners insurance stops. Homeowners insurance will not
cover an airplane building project. Avemco will replace everything and my
logged time @ $15/hour.
Paul Osterman
----------
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Vanremog
Sent: Monday, December 29, 1997 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Inspections and Insurance
<< Just got my renewal from Avemco for my construction policy. They said they
base it on the value of the parts sitting in the garage which currently
include Empennage, wing & fuselage. No finishing kit, engine or avionics.
Price for 1998 is $182. >>
I'm sure they love the free money they get on policies like this. Great work
if you can get it. JMO.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
All in all, RV plans are some
> of the best, most complete, and most detailed that I've seen.
I find Van's kits to be admirable in their completeness. I find the
parts to be remarkably accurate. I find Van's kits to be a real BEST
BUY. Posssibly, they are a best buy because Van does not spend piles of
money on drawings and manuals...but he does provide excellent technical
support. The Glassair manual I worked with a few years ago was near
perfection and their kit prices reflect it!
George's videos and Frank's notes have been a great help to me. Before
I knew of Frank's notes, I wrote Wing Construction Notes for -6/-6A.
Courtesy of Gil Alexander, they are on net at http://www.flash.net/~gila
parked behind the red -6A. I have written Fuselage (Plywood) Jig Notes
for -6/-6A and Tilt Canopy Notes for -6/-6A. You may contact me off
List for the latter two documents...they were written with MSWord and
may not arrive with para numbers intact but we can try...
When I wrote Technical Instructions for the A-7 a couple years ago, each
page cost thousands of dollars and they were near perfect after trial
installations. Van does passable manuals/drawings and we have a BEST
BUY kit. Frank's notes help the builder and the price is right...I hope
he gets as many plaudits as Van gets brickbats? I hope my notes will
help some builders, too.
Will Cretsinger
Arlington, TX
-6A now working the brakes, H2AD engine is future challenge
ach you not to S---W with a sound design. It just bogs my
mind someone with no aeronautical design background want to change
something thats sound.All you have to is glue some sound proofing strips
to the aluminum sides and this oil canning is taken care of.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
RV6ToBuild wrote:
>
>
> I found very early on that the plans for the RV6 should NOT be followed
> exactly. I have only been building for a couple of months now and have had
> problems because of the plans. I have learned to only consult with the plans.
> I have saved myself lots of problems sense I have learned that. Bottom line
> the Aircraft needs to be built strait, light weight and structurly sound, and
> That is the Responsibility of the Builder, plans or no plans. However it sure
> would have been nice to know the plans were for refferance only, before I
> started.
> I would recomend that each and every one of you look at the AC43.13. This
> book is one that no builder or mechanic should be with out.
> Good Luck and happy building
>
Now thats the kind of info that should be given on this page for those
that may not know it. If you build your aircraft to those
standards(making adjustments as you need to for your RV) you not only
make the DAR happy but have a guide line to go by in the case your not
too experienced. Just because your able to thumb your nose at the FAA
because your building a Homebuilt. It still behouves you to seek out all
the info you can to give a good and safe constructed RV.This is good info
and time proven.
Good Luck
Don
RV-6QB 90% done
ATP,A&P,CFII Retired B767 Captain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Inspections and Insurance |
Bill,
Most homeowners policies cover the home and ordinary contents. Extraordinary
items have to be declared and often additional premiums are required. When I
called my insurance agent to ask whether or not the policy would extend to the
project, after checking he politely said No way No how. Not even for an
additional premium! I called several others thinking I'd change companies
next renewal - no dice. Couldn't find anyone. In fact Avemco was the only
aviation insurance company I found that would write me a course of
construction project protecting my project while building at home. The agent
said their policy starts where a typical homeowners policy stops. I don't
think earthquake coverage is part of the deal though.
Paul Osterman
Anderson, Ca
----------
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of pagan
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 1998 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Inspections and Insurance
What exactly is covered by an insurance policy on the kit? I have never
heard of such a policy. Wouldn't your homeowners policy cover any damage
from fire, flood, tornado, acts of god, etc.?
Bill Pagan
-8A Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
> Fact is that we ultimately rely on juries to enforce these agreements.
> Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. There's never a shortage of scumbag
> attorneys who're willing to take such a case, so we have to count on the
> juries to throw them out on their ear. Personally, when somebody comes in to
> my office with a rotten case where they just want to extort money, I just tell
> them no--go look someplace else. Man, could I tell you some stories...
>
>
I have the answer to the problem if your worried. Sell the plane and then
move. Change your name and get a new SS#. Quit your job and start a new
one with your new SS# and live happily ever after.
Don
Life is too short for this SH-T.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
WoodardRod wrote:
>
>
>
> >>>>Things Snipped<<<<
> > Has anybody out there heard of or been involved in
> > litigation arising from the sale of an experimental? Is there any way to
> > find out? Would Mr. Woodard, as an attorney, have access to statistics such
> as
> > these? This might help us determine individually whether we want to take
> the
> > risk or not.
> >
> > Von Alexander
> > MAlexan533(at)aol.com
>
> Fantastic idea, Von. Nobody publishes statistics, as such, but there are
> national databases containing all reported cases that I could search. These
> searches are VERY expensive, but one of the companies offers a couple of
> freebie days per month for attorneys to get familiar with their system and to
> do pro bono work. I'll see when the next of these days is and get to work on
> the search. The other problem is that these databases will only show those
> cases that actually went to trial AND were picked to be reported... Not all
> cases end up in print for all the world to see. I would guess that many of
> these things settle on the courtroom steps. These wouldn't be reported.
>
> A great idea, though... and not a bad place to start.
>
>
Another good place to start in this society is that your generation begin
to take responsibility for your own actions and not blame it on someone
else to bear.This would take care of all this litigation and bull Sh-t
that we have to deal with.
Don
Just living by the olds rules. (SELF RESPONSIBILITY)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>My concern about selling (heaven forbid!)
>my -6 is not about whether the buyer is going to come back against me, but
>the buyers who come after him.
Do you suppose there might be some protection for the seller after the
aircraft is signed off by an A&P? Perhaps selling with an annual (signed
off by the purchasers A&P) might help a bit.
When I sold a RV-3 that I owned but didn't build, I wrote up a purchase
contract that said, to boil it down to one statement, "this is the most
un-airworthy piece of junk known to man and it is just a question of time
before this aircraft kills someone." I showed the document to my lawyer and
he asked if the guy actually signed it. Then, he either gave me a
compliment (or insult, depending on your point of view) and told me that I
should have gone to law school. The contract had "legalese" type wording
about warranties, expressed or implied, fitness for a particular use and
that the buyer had inspected the airplane and satisfied himself as to
whether it was suitable for his use, etc.
I guess I'm a little backwards in my thinking that people should be
responsible for their actions. Hopefully, a strongly worded document such
as the above might possibly put a little distance between the airplane and
bankruptcy.
I believe that AVEMCO's insurance provides some liability protection for
one year after the aircraft is sold.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
My home insurance company (State Farm) said if it is something that can
be covered by a separate policy, it is not covered under a home owner's
policy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
> From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
> I do not
> understand the difference between the panel mount ($55) and the rack
> mount ($239
The panel mount is simply a device for physically screwing the Skymap II to
a panel. No quick disconnects for aircraft power, aircraft antenna, or
serial data. This would work great for a "permanent" installation, but
greatly reduces the inherent flexibility of the unit.
The rack mount allows you to operate the unit as a portable, plug it into
the panel...and instantly be hooked up to aircraft power, aircraft antenna,
and the Navaid.
Do all your flight planning before arriving at the hanger, plug it in, and
go.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kempthorne <halk(at)sybase.com>
Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability concerns
>
>Is there builder's insurance that would cover you if you sell?
Avemco told me that their policy will continue to provide coverage after you
sell your plane. This would offer some protection from the buyer. You'll
have to ask Avemco for the details.
I've heard people mention Umbrella liability policies before. These would
cover you from anything that you were liable for as I understand.
Unfortunately, I haven't found a company that offers such a policy. State
Farm sure doesn't.
Russell Duffy
rad(at)pen.net
Navarre, FL
RV-8 empenage order sitting in Van's fax machine now :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Inspections and Insurance |
Better read the fine print!
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Paul Osterman III wrote:
>
>
> Bill,
>
> Just got my renewal from Avemco for my construction policy. They said they
> base it on the value of the parts sitting in the garage which currently
> include Empennage, wing & fuselage. No finishing kit, engine or avionics.
> Price for 1998 is $182.
Doesn't your homeowners policy cover the contents of your home?
Mine does.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Can an A&P sign off and reduce liability---no probably not. When an A&P signs
an annual ispection or other he/(she) is working from the manufactuers
approved data and type cert. data sheet that the a/c is in compliance with its
ATC. Since a homebuilder is the manufactor guess who will be providing the
"Approved Data" .That's right---you the builder and manufactuer. There
probably is no real solution to this dilema until people take responsibility
for their actions and lawyers and their clients who bring suit have to pay for
all costs when they loose. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A (Slaves??) |
"you brought the slaves and then learned to talk like them"---a qoute from
this thread---this is worse than my politicism several months back and sounds
just abit Racist---yall.Yall, let's not pursue this further even if it is a
joke. Besides that we tried to leave the Federal Union and Yawl sent an
invading army to inform us that Yall did much desire our company so's I guess
that yall will'st have to put up with our South'n Axccent--yall. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
<< Wouldn't your homeowners policy cover any damage
from fire, flood, tornado, acts of god, etc.? >>
Most specifically except a/c and a/c parts. Get out the magnifying glass and
read the fine print in your policy. I did.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>>STUFF SNIPPED<<<
> The problem as I see it is that if you're sued, you lose - albeit by
> varying degrees. Even if you win in court you will have spent thousands
> of dollars, countless hours, and years of sleepless nights proving your
> case, and none of it is recoverable unless the plaintiffs case is
> frivilous (right Rod?).
>>MORE SNIPPED<<
>
> Bruce Stobbe
> RV-6 fuselage
Exactamuoondo, Bruce. I just finished a response to somebody who pointed out
essentially the same facts in a private post to me. I defend plenty of people
and companies who refuse to settle when a Plaintiff comes at them with a
shakedown case. In every case, I ask for attorney's fees and so far, I've
NEVER had a judge award them. I think it'd put an end to a lot of the BS cases
that clog our legal system and would make people AND lawyers think twice about
bringing shakedown cases if judges were more open to awarding costs and
attorney's fees.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado [go CSU...winners of this year's holiday bowl.]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
Paul
Thabks again, I'm gaoona call Avemco in the morning, I'm building in my
hangar, my Seneca is insured, but not the project. If there is a fire in one
of the T Hangars due to Pre Heaters etc, I know the Seneca is covered, but the
project is not - so for 190.00 its cheap insurance.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Our Aircraft are not Professionaly Built ( EXPERIMENTAL ) Unlike the following
professioally built machines - Andrea Doria - TiTanic - Challenger etc, and we
all know what happened to them, built by professionals.
However I have yet to meet a better bunch of Professional that the guys a Vans
they are a great source of Help & Advice.
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
<< Doesn't your homeowners policy cover the contents of your home?
Mine does. >>
Don,
I think you better call your agent and ask him specificly. I think you will
find out you are wrong. I have state farm and they will not cover aircraft
parts in the garage or house.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Miller" <rgmiller(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
MAlexan533 wrote:
>
> Since there is apparently not a whole lot a guy can do to assure complete
> freedom from possible litigation when selling a homebuilt, maybe we can at
> least look at the odds. Has anybody out there heard of or been involved in
> litigation arising from the sale of an experimental? Is there any way to find
> out? Would Mr. Woodard, as an attorney, have access to statistics such as
> these? This might help us determine individually whether we want to take the
> risk or not.
>
> Von Alexander
> MAlexan533(at)aol.com
>
> I guess that means I wear the black hat; that is, until YOU want to sue
> someone. But all that aside, I researched the issue a few fears ago in
> connection with preparing the documents for the sale of a friend's homebuilt.
I
> could not find one single reported case. Please note, however, that in most
> states only appellate cases are published. Therefore, if a lawsuit was settled
> before trial, or was won or lost at trial and the parties did not appeal, it
> would not be reported.
I am aware of two lawsuits involving experimental a/c that may be of some
interest. The first involved a plans-built bi-plane. After completition of
approximately 75% of the project, the owner hired a professional A&P to complete
it. After discovering that the A&P cut-corners including the use of too short
bolts (virtually all did not even go thru the nut) and gutter flashing from K-Mart
for the leading edges of the wings (which buckled in flight and then popped back
out on the ground). This lawsuit was settled. The second lawsuit involved a
fatal crash of a fancy Russian aerobatic a/c. The pilot was an ATP with over 9000
hrs, an airline captain and a professional air show pilot. He bought this a/c
new
from the importer and with less than 20 hours on the a/c, piled it into the
ground. The NTSB's preliminary report states the cause as loss of elevator control
DUE TO THE ABSENCE OF A COTTER PIN holding the push rod to the bell crank. Last
I
heard, this one is still pending.
Do you have exposure when you sell a homebuilt? Of course you do!! But
the real question is how great is that exposure. I personally do not think it
is
unreasonable and would not hesitate to sell a homebuilt that I built. In most
states, the determination of whether a product is defective in design or
manufacture turns on whether the product lived up to the reasonable expectations
of the average consumer. Lets face it, the average consumer thinks that anyone
who builds a plane in his garage and flies it is nuts. I do not believe that the
average juror would be sympathetic to a plaintiff (or his widow) who purchased
and
flew a plane knowing that it was built by someone without any training in his
garage. Which moves us to the age old defense of assumption of the risk. I think
it far more likely that the average jury would find that the purchaser assumed
the
risk of his injuries or death. This is quite different than the two cases
mentioned above. None of the above does not mean that you will not be sued and
that Rod or one of the other guys in white hats will not charge you a small
fortune to defend the suit and, that ultimately, you may lose. But remember, you,
your wife or teenage kid may pile that station wagon into the Suburban full of
neurosurgeons! Life is not without risk.
To further protect yourself, YOU should HIRE an A&P to do a through pre-sale
inspection. Now you have a disinterested witness to testify as to the condition
of the plane prior to sale. If it turns out he missed something, sue him. Also,
I would insist the purchaser hire an A&P of his choosing to perform an independent
inspection and provide you with a written copy of his report. I would take lots
of pictures of the construction process and any modifications and KEEP them after
the sale. Finally, in the sale documents, I would specifically state in bold
print that the purchaser acknowledged that the aircraft was home built by a
non-professional builder with no experience or training, that the a/c was not
certified by the FAA, that the seller made no warranty that the a/c is air worthy,
and that the purchaser relied exclusively on his own personal inspection and the
inspection of his A&P. I would also consider selling the a/c out of annual, thus
insuring that an A&P inspected it and signed off on the log book prior its first
flight by its new owner. With any luck, the new owner will have made or hired
someone to make modifications to the a/c prior to any accident or, better yet,
damaged it. My friend, mentioned above, was lucky. A year or so after the sale,
the new purchaser ground looped it and ripped off the bottom wing. Any defect
that shows up now was caused by his "crashing" the plane or subsequent negligent
repair. If despite all of the above, you still cannot sleep at night, buy some
insurance, part it out and sell it, or donate it to a museum.
Robert Miller
The guy in the BLACK HAT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Miller" <rgmiller(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Don Champagne wrote:
>
> Another good place to start in this society is that your generation begin
> to take responsibility for your own actions and not blame it on someone
> else to bear.This would take care of all this litigation and bull Sh-t
> that we have to deal with.
>
> Don
> Just living by the olds rules. (SELF RESPONSIBILITY)
>
What a crock of shit!! This entire thread involves a group of people trying to
avoid responsibility for their own actions. Isn't this list about building planes?
The guy in the BLACK HAT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
I paid $306/yr for $30,000 coverage at Avemco.
Ron Vandervort,RV-6Q
On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, KB2DU wrote:
>
> ANy one have a ball park figure on Insurance for the RV6 for the year? and did
> anyone take out the AVEMCOpolicy on the kit during construction. I think they
> wanted $149.00 for the year.
>
>
> Thanks Bill
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
>
>
> That will teach you not to S---W with a sound design. It just bogs my
> mind someone with no aeronautical design background want to change
> something thats sound.All you have to is glue some sound proofing strips
> to the aluminum sides and this oil canning is taken care of.
I spoke with Tom Green at Van's. He was surprised and concerned. He also mentioned
that their "Master Craftsman" Art Chard installs the same stiffeners.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rodney Coston <cozmos9(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
>
>You would have been better off adding visco-elastic damping material (E.A.R.
>makes the stuff)
who,where, is E.A.R. ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Batteries and Starters |
Bob Nuckols; I have an 18AH Powersonic battery and an Air Tec starter
connected by #4 cable.
John Henley (grihen(at)juno.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
Don Champagne wrote:
>
> Doesn't your homeowners policy cover the contents of your home?
> Mine does.
Most won't cover a vehicle, even under construction. My renter's
insurance specifically does *not* cover aircraft or aircraft parts.
Have you read your fine print or contacted your insurer?
BTW, before you condemn my insurance company, sometimes a company will
exceed the letter of the contract. I also insure my motorcycle through
them; they agreed to my setting the value based on my estimate (way over
book due to customizing), and have allowed me to use my own shop (a
dealer, not the cheapest). I pay a little more for insurance, but it
has paid off as the @$#&)!! bike has been hit four times and stolen once
(no one got more than bruises, even the thief) and the company has paid
all expenses without quibbling even once. They even replace leathers
and helmets. If they would insure my aircraft (they won't, I asked),
I'd use them in a heartbeat.
Which leads to another point - most companies will negotiate both
coverage and price. Haggle; you may get a better deal.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
----------
> From: Paul Osterman III <PineRanch(at)classic.msn.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Inspections and Insurance
> Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 10:21 PM
>Avemco will replace everything and my
> logged time @ $15/hour.
>
> Paul Osterman
I believe you have misread your policy, Paul. My Avemco policy reads "up
to $15 per hour". I pointed out to my agent that "$1 per hour was less
than $15 per hour". He merely laughed. He said the rate would be
"negotiated". I am not comfortable with the un-specified rate.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>>Is there builder's insurance that would cover you if you sell?
>
>I've heard people mention Umbrella liability policies before. These would
>cover you from anything that you were liable for as I understand.
>Unfortunately, I haven't found a company that offers such a policy. State
>Farm sure doesn't.
>
>Russell Duffy
I purchased a Umbrella Liabitity Policy from my State Farm Agent
here in Oregon, so maybe it is by the state you are in.
The problem as some of you are aware and I am painfully aware,
agreements are only as good as the parties involved. I had an agreement
drawn by an attorney, examined by an the other party's attorney, witnessed
and signed. A few years later the other party said they were not in there
right mind when they signed it, and sued. The case drug on with six
different attorneys that agreed that no way could I lose. After two years of
filing this, that and the other thing, I realized I was losing while
winning. I had a third party make an offer to the opposing party directly
from an estimate of how much more I would pay my attorneys to win. It was
settled. My attorneys expressed how happy they were to have helped me
resolve my dispute. A total cost of....$62,000.00 out of my pocket.....but I
won (didn't I ?) But I have gotten a Christmas card every year from my (ex)
attorneys.
Our son graduates this year in Washington D.C. from Law
school...maybe he will give me a break....
Happy Building In 1998!
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Terry,
Good post! I'm skinning my RV-6A tail right now and I was debating
whether to put in some skin stiffeners in the large, flat "boomy" skins.
I guess I will leave well enough alone.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
.............Another builder who was skinning his fuse at that
time had noticed the
same thing and placed additional stiffeners on some of the big
sections
of flat skin in the rear belly/tail cone area. A great idea.
..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Robert G. Miller wrote:
>
>
> Don Champagne wrote:
>
> >
> > Another good place to start in this society is that your generation begin
> > to take responsibility for your own actions and not blame it on someone
> > else to bear.This would take care of all this litigation and bull Sh-t
> > that we have to deal with.
> >
> > Don
> > Just living by the olds rules. (SELF RESPONSIBILITY)
> >
> What a crock of shit!! This entire thread involves a group of people trying
to
> avoid responsibility for their own actions. Isn't this list about building planes?
>
> The guy in the BLACK HAT
>
When I see this kind of response it makes me wonder do I ignore it
or do I respond and in doing so perpetuate the BS. Having been on
this list for several years I have come to the conclusion that I am
glad it was not available when I built my RV and started flying it
in 1989. With all the whining about the plans and worrying about
liability of selling my airplane before it is even flying and all the
redesigning of Van's design I probably would have never got my airplane
finished and have all these fun filled hours flying it.
As far as this being a group of people trying to avoid responsibility
I don't think so, I quit primary flight instructing because no matter
how well you teach someone and they go and buzz their girl friends
house, crash and kill themselves I will still be sued for not teaching
the pilot to not be a idiot. That's what Don was trying to say
WHERE IS SELF RESPONSIBILITY?
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
Don Champagne wrote:
> That will teach you not to S---W with a sound design. It just bogs my
> mind someone with no aeronautical design background want to change
> something thats sound.All you have to is glue some sound proofing strips
> to the aluminum sides and this oil canning is taken care of.
It just "bogs" my mind why anybody without any airplane constuction backround
would want to build an airplane.
Terry
RV-6 C-GZRV many factory recommended improvements implemented after purchase of
soundly designed kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tank mount bracket rivets |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Brian,
I'd be interested in how you're measuring the Pro-Seal. I'm in the
process of building a small balance beam scale (from model airplane
plywood). On my first RV, I just eyeballed it. No problems to date (1025
Hrs in four + years), but would like to do a better job this time........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>I'm deep into the process of sealing the tanks on my 6A over the
>holidays and it's really going very well. I'm doing the whole thing
>by myself and haven't run into too many hard reaches. For those who
>haven't done this yet, concerns are definitely overblown. I do have a
>question for those further along though. Is there any reason why the
>426-4 rivets specified in the plans are needed to secure the tank
>mounting bracket or will 470-4's do? Countersinking those brackets
>seems a waste of time.
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Listers,
I did put a primer in my -6A, but almost never use it. I keep it in a
hanger and heat the engine and cockpit during the winter months (on a
timer). With the engine warm, primer isn't needed.
BUT, when the engine is cold (happens here in New England in the
winter time away from home) the primer is needed, especially when the
engine is real cold. Now if you NEVER plan on flying into colder areas
and parking your plane there over night, by all means, don't install a
primer. My guess is that, now that you have an aircraft that you can
travel to distance places in, you'll eventually need a prime to start
it.........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>Jim,
> I do not have a primer on my 4 and I have never had the need for one.
Even
>starting on teen degree days my engine starts by 4 blades. I thought
during
>construction I would not put one on unless I found out later that I
needed one
>and it payed off. Why put something on a plane that is not needed
especially
>in the fuel system. I think you will find this to be the general
concensis
>among RVers. Anyway like I said you can always add it later if there is
a need
>but I bet if you put it on you will not need it.
>Chris May
>RV-4 N595CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Van's plans are best for a person who already knows something about how
aluminum airplanes are built. For example, I have compared them to Burt
Rutan's Long Eze plans. Burt's plans are really a lot more detailed and
better for the person who has never built an airplane before because he
explains why the builder is supposed to do something in addition to
telling the builder what to do. In other words, Burt's plans are better
for a guy like me because he is constantly informing the builder of the
big picture ... that is, why we are doing a particular step and how it
fits into the airplane as a whole.
My RV-6A is my first airplane, so I would benefit from getting the
theory as well as the instructions and dimensions. Just my opinion and
not a criticism or gripe! When I can't figure out what to do or why
something is the way it is on Van's plans, I do some research or call
for help. I am beginning my third year on this project, and I have
learned a lot about how airplanes are built. According to the FAA, we
are allowed to build and fly our own machines in part for education.
Boy have I got an education over the last two years!
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----............. All in all, RV plans
are some of the best, most complete, and most detailed that I've
seen..............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
Don,
This is a totally tactless response. Terry posted a good piece of
information to the list to try to help others avoid a mistake he made, and
you jump all over him with this condescending response. This will really
encourage folks to post confessions to the list. Good job.
-Gene Gottschalk
>
>Terrance Jantzi wrote:
snip
>> I certainly wouldn't do it again. If any builders out there have made a
>> similar mod or are contemplating something similar, check with Vans
>> first. If flying I would recommend a close inspection of the rear tail
>> cone bottom skin.
>
>
>That will teach you not to S---W with a sound design. It just bogs my
>mind someone with no aeronautical design background want to change
>something thats sound.All you have to is glue some sound proofing strips
>to the aluminum sides and this oil canning is taken care of.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
charset="US-ASCII"
-
> When I sold a RV-3 that I owned but didn't build, I wrote up a purchase
>contract that said, to boil it down to one statement, "this is the most
>un-airworthy piece of junk known to man and it is just a question of time
>before this aircraft kills someone." I showed the document to my lawyer
and
>he asked if the guy actually signed it. Then, he either gave me a
>compliment (or insult, depending on your point of view) and told me that I
>should have gone to law school.
If that is all your lawyer told you, get a new one. Your "contract" may
protect you in some manner from the guy who signed it, my guess his lawyer
could even find an out no matter how much you wrote. Granted, however, it
would provide some protection.
The real problem is that the guy who signed it won't be the one who sues
you. Chances are he is dead. Did his wife sign it? Did his kids sign it?
Oh, but they aren't 18 yet you say? So they can't sign away their right to
have a live parent, but they sure can sue for that right.
Some say that if you take it apart and force the purchaser to reassemble it
you are protected. This too may provide some protection, but if the
purchasers family can prove you did it to escape liability you are right
back where you started.
The answer is there is no answer.... Unless you sell it to the insurance
co.. as a pile of twisted metal. BTDT don't recommend it.
Tailwinds, -4 N240
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cafgef <Cafgef(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | GPS for pitch and bank? |
Has anyone used the gps system for a pitch or a turn indicator? It would seem
that the gps recievers are cheap enough that one could put one in each wing
tip, nose and tail and use the diferential signal readout to indicate turn and
pitch. Just dreaming.
Gene Francis RV-6A, With a month of work left to do and trying to find that
month.
Being from the south I was taught that "you all" was plural and "y'all" was
singular
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Skymap II GPS/MAP |
Will Cretsinger wrote:
> I feel that a panel mount GPS is needed
> for the NavAid autopilot and I will go with the Skymap II.
I believe any handheld GPS on the market now could be used with the
Navaid autopilot. If you buy it with the $150 GPS interface it can be
used with any GPS providing the NEMA 0183 ouput. I think all of the
GPS's on the market now, including handhelds, output NEMA 0183.
> I do not
> understand the difference between the panel mount ($55) and the rack
> mount ($239). I do want it flush with my Engine Information System
> (EIS) and Terra com/txpndr.
The mounts and other accessories are pictured and described on their web
site: http://www.skyforce.co.uk
The $55 panel mount fastens to the surface of your panel. It has a quick
release latch which mates with a stud on the back of the GPS so you can
install and remove the GPS easily. The panel mount has no power or
antenna connectors, and is intended to be used with the portable antenna
cable and cig lighter power cord.
For $112 you can get the panel mount with antenna and power connectors,
so you can "hard wire" the antenna and power to the panel mount.
The $239 rack mount is basically the panel mount with connectors, set
into a 1.5" deep rack so the front face of the GPS will be flush with
the panel.
I know what you're thinking. $55 for the panel mount seems reasonable,
but double the price to add a couple of $2 connectors? Add another $127
to put 4 sheet metal sides on it 1.5" deep? I wrote them noting this,
and suggested that most customers probably perceived these prices to be
a bit steep. The GM replied "Your comments on our pricing are not taken
kindly. The rack mount is not a piece of junk that was quickly put
together in the Far East. It is a Mil Spec piece of engineering built
to aircraft quality, fully tested, approved, and traceable. Design,
testing, and paper work for units of this quality does not come cheap."
Is the testing, approval, and paperwork expense really much different
for the $239 rack mount than for the $55 panel mount? The fact is, I
can sell a complete engine heating system for a Lycoming for $298, which
is built to aircraft quality, fully tested, approved, and traceable, so
from my perspective $239 for a rack mount seems high.
I want to put my Skymap on or in the panel, but will either make my own
mount, or get the $55 panel mount and put my own connectors on it and/or
make it into a rack mount.
Happy New Year everyone.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
> The panel mount is simply a device for physically screwing the Skymap II to
> a panel. No quick disconnects for aircraft power, aircraft antenna, or
> serial data. This would work great for a "permanent" installation, but
> greatly reduces the inherent flexibility of the unit.
>
> The rack mount allows you to operate the unit as a portable, plug it into
> the panel...and instantly be hooked up to aircraft power, aircraft antenna,
> and the Navaid.
>
> Do all your flight planning before arriving at the hanger, plug it in, and
> go.
>
> Rob (RV-6Q).
Thanks for the clarification. My understanding is that I can use the
panel mount at $55 and have a permanent mounted GPS that will connect to
my NavAid with the added smart chip for a cost of about $150 extra to
NavAid.
Flexible alternative is to spend $239 for rack mount and still have to
get the $150 option from NavAid. The rack permits the Skymap to
instantly change from a portable to a panel mount by quick connects to
the antenna (the one provided or another external antenna), acft power,
and to NavAid. I hope this interpretation is correct if somewhat
awkwardly worded...
I have held off on NavAid sending me the panel mount part until I
decided which GPS I will use. I will go with the Skymap and will get
the Porcine option at $150. For the Skymap, I will need the option with
either the panel or rack mount apparently.
Thanks for your help....Will Cretsinger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Hangar Floor Cracks |
While not directly related to RV's, this is a problem alot of us have with our
hangars. What is the best way to patch cracks in the concrete hangar floor?
Mine has cracks up to 1/4" wide. I have tried the crack filler in a caulk tube
from Sears, and it was awful, just separated from the concrete after a couple
of months. At the local Costco, they used what appears to be some sort of
epoxy; it looks pretty good and has held up well, with no separation that I
can see. Anybody know what this stuff is and where to get it? Or something
better?
Von Alexander
N107RV
to the HS? Opinions Appreciated!
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
> RV>> I would recomend that each and every one of you look at the AC43.13.
> RV>It is available from RV-Ation Bookstore. The cost is $18.95 plus $4 for RV>priority
mail shipping.
> RV>Contact RV-ation bookstore at:
> RV>winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
> RV>970 887-2207
> Don't forget to get both 43-13-1a and 43-13-2a. They are sold
> separately, and you should have both.
OURS IS A COMBINED VERSION OF BOTH 1A AND 2A. THEY CAN BE GOTTEN AS ONE
BOOK.
ANDY GOLD
RV-ATION BOOKSTORE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: master solenoid |
><< HOw do you tell the difference in the two solinods? >>
>Externally these are the distinctions:>-GV
Thanks GV:
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
on one tank(6A) & did not like the fit. I dimpled the
second tank & it worked out fine. Seems like both techniques leave the
rivets high. I blamed this on guess what (Proseal). I would stay with
the dimple mainly because you have worked the T3 when you dimpled the
skin. If you work it out you are asking for cranks in the future. I did
not have any problem getting the baffle in & not losing the Proseal on
the edge. I used pop sickle sticks for spacers that Will Crestsinger
passed on to me. Both ways, you need that bucking buddy to help keep
pressure on the squeezers with both methods.
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: -8 tank skin to baffle rivet line |
----------
> From: donspawn(at)juno.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: -8 tank skin to baffle rivet line
> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 11:41 AM
>
>
> >..I mistakenly dimpled the tank skin to tank baffle rivet line
>
>I would stay with
> the dimple mainly because you have worked the T3 when you dimpled the
> skin. If you work it out you are asking for cranks in the future.
>
Early in my building career (about 3 1/2 years ago) I dimpled some 2024T3
parts by mistake. I took a practice piece and dimpled/undimpled/dimpled
... for 15 cycles. Examination under a 60X microscope revealed no apparent
cracks.
Dennis the experimenter Persyk 6A Fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
This is on-line too isn't it? I don't just now see where.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Pre-punched wings |
Greetings Listers.
I took delivery of my wing kit yesterday and finished inventory today. It
arrived just as I am finishing up the left elevator.
The pre-punched skins and pre-drilled spars are a beautiful sight. There are
hundreds of precise little holes. The leading edges are all bent. The joggle
for the inspection plate is even formed.
The spars are all pre-drilled and the reinforcing strips are already tapered.
The lightening holes are drilled. The fuselage bulkhead is pre-drilled to the
spar and to the hardened steel splice plates. All the spar related parts are
engraved with their serial number and are mated for life.
The ribs have their lightening holes all drilled out and the spar clearance
notches are already cut.
Even the aileron stiffeners are pre-tapered.
It is truly a beautiful kit and it is designed to ensure builder success. I
have no doubt I can finish this airplane in a reasonable amount of time.
Having built my empennage from the old style non pre-punched kit, I am a
little concerned about the positioning of the ribs such that they will fall
under the skin holes. I almost think I will have to figure out a way to use
the skins to jig up the ribs. This will be awkward, I think.
I have the non pre-punched video, so it is no help here.
Have any of you built pre-punched wings ? If so, how did you ensure alignment
of the ribs to the skin holes ?
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS for pitch and bank? |
charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Has anyone used the gps system for a pitch or a turn indicator? It would
seem
>that the gps recievers are cheap enough that one could put one in each wing
>tip, nose and tail and use the diferential signal readout to indicate turn
and
>pitch. Just dreaming.
>Gene Francis RV-6A, With a month of work left to do and trying to find
that
Been done, put another antenna in the middle and you can measure how much
the wings flex too, all been done. You would still have to have a turn &
bank....;-)
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mick_G" <micky_g(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS for pitch and bank? |
There was an article by an ex fighter jock about this subject in Kit Planes
last year, can't remember which issue. He discussed this type of setup in
conjunction with having a glass cockpit in a Homebuilt.
Mick
-----Original Message-----
From: Cafgef <Cafgef(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:50 AM
Subject: RV-List: GPS for pitch and bank?
>
>Has anyone used the gps system for a pitch or a turn indicator? It would
seem
>that the gps recievers are cheap enough that one could put one in each wing
>tip, nose and tail and use the diferential signal readout to indicate turn
and
>pitch. Just dreaming.
>Gene Francis RV-6A, With a month of work left to do and trying to find
that
>month.
>Comment:
>Being from the south I was taught that "you all" was plural and "y'all" was
>singular
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert l. wadsworth" <110014.1237(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
I have heard many good things regarding the RV series. I am considering
building a RV-6. Is there anyone
who has anything negative to say?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>I've heard people mention Umbrella liability policies before. These would
>cover you from anything that you were liable for as I understand.
>Unfortunately, I haven't found a company that offers such a policy. State
>Farm sure doesn't.
>
>Russell Duffy
Russell,
State Farm does offer an umbrella liability policy. I've got one for
$1,000,000. That's the good news. The bad news is that this policy will
not cover liability arising from the ownership of any aircraft, whether
homebuilt or factory built. I have an independant agent looking into
possibilities for coverage.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Tip Plugs |
Von,
I balanced mine on the bench, then finished the tips. I used balsa plugs and
fiberglass but it took a lot of work and time. Later I found an article in a
'93 RVator, I think, where Van described putting in a plug with bondo and
finishing it off with more Bondo and sanding smooth. That would be a lot
easier and look just as good once it's painted. Check the balance again once
it's assembled. I would leave it a little front heavy until it is painted,
then you can remove some of the lead if needed.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
What have most of you found to be the best way to fill the open ends of the
fiberglass tips on the elevators and rudder? I am thinking of using 3/4" pine
cut to fit and fiberglassed in place. I like the idea of forming aluminum
plugs, but don't like the fact that I would have to pop rivet them in place,
as the pop rivets would be visible from outside. Also, is it best to wait
until the tail is mounted on the plane to install the tips, so that the lead
weights can be filed and trimmed for proper balance? Or can this just be done
right on the bench, while mounted to the HS? Opinions Appreciated!
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A question |
Don wrote:
> Just remember one thing however. The Pilgrims landed on our shores and
> not the souths. We learned to talk as they did. You bought the slaves and
> learned to talk as they did.:-
>
----------
What is this suppose to mean? I am from the south and find this offensive.
I personally have never seen a slave nor talked to one, much less learned
any language skills from one. I seriously doubt you or anyone else has. I
guess you are having a bad day.
Jerry Isler
RV4 #1070
On the gear.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>
>
> Don Champagne wrote:
> Another good place to start in this society is that your generation begin
> to take responsibility for your own actions and not blame it on someone
> else to bear.This would take care of all this litigation and bull Sh-t
> that we have to deal with.
>
> Don
> Just living by the olds rules. (SELF RESPONSIBILITY)
----------
Still having a bad day? Surely you can't blame all of our societies woes on
one generation. Remember, your generation raised us slackers.
Jerry Isler
RV4 #1070
On the gear (and I accept full responsibility)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
Red Ryder bb gun??? Wonderful!!! My age (and yours) is showing. Red
Ryder's sidekick was Little Beaver if memory serves. What was the name
of his horse?? Happy trails and good flying.. J. E. Rehler RV6A flying
Corpus Christi, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspections and Insurance |
les williams wrote:
>
>
> Better read the fine print!
>
> Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>>
>
I have. Besides I don't make comments that aren't fact. And for the
record I'm not insured with State Farm.
Don Champagne/RV6Q/ Mont Vernon, NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Jerry,
Well said!! I couldn't agree more.
Walt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
> When I see this kind of response it makes me wonder do I ignore it
> or do I respond and in doing so perpetuate the BS. Having been on
> this list for several years I have come to the conclusion that I am
> glad it was not available when I built my RV and started flying it
> in 1989. With all the whining about the plans and worrying about
> liability of selling my airplane before it is even flying and all the
> redesigning of Van's design I probably would have never got my airplane
> finished and have all these fun filled hours flying it.
> As far as this being a group of people trying to avoid responsibility
> I don't think so, I quit primary flight instructing because no matter
> how well you teach someone and they go and buzz their girl friends
> house, crash and kill themselves I will still be sued for not teaching
> the pilot to not be a idiot. That's what Don was trying to say
> WHERE IS SELF RESPONSIBILITY?
>
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>
THANK YOU!!! Jerry,
I'm glad to see someone out there is getting the message. I wrote to this
guy personally and told what I thought of him.
Don Champagne/RV6QB/Enjoying retierement
31yrs Delta Pilot/44yrs in aviation.
You want to talk about responsibility?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
Terrance Jantzi wrote:
>
>
> Don Champagne wrote:
>
> > That will teach you not to S---W with a sound design. It just bogs my
> > mind someone with no aeronautical design background want to change
> > something thats sound.All you have to is glue some sound proofing strips
> > to the aluminum sides and this oil canning is taken care of.
>
> It just "bogs" my mind why anybody without any airplane constuction backround
> would want to build an airplane.
>
> Terry
> RV-6 C-GZRV many factory recommended improvements implemented after purchase
of
> soundly designed kit.
>
Well, how about sharing them with the group? Or are you spinning your
prop?
Don/RV6QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> Van's plans are best for a person who already knows something about how
> aluminum airplanes are built. For example, I have compared them to Burt
> Rutan's Long Eze plans. Burt's plans are really a lot more detailed and
> better for the person who has never built an airplane before because he
> explains why the builder is supposed to do something in addition to
> telling the builder what to do. In other words, Burt's plans are better
> for a guy like me because he is constantly informing the builder of the
> big picture ... that is, why we are doing a particular step and how it
> fits into the airplane as a whole.
>
> My RV-6A is my first airplane, so I would benefit from getting the
> theory as well as the instructions and dimensions. Just my opinion and
> not a criticism or gripe! When I can't figure out what to do or why
> something is the way it is on Van's plans, I do some research or call
> for help. I am beginning my third year on this project, and I have
> learned a lot about how airplanes are built. According to the FAA, we
> are allowed to build and fly our own machines in part for education.
> Boy have I got an education over the last two years!
>
>
Steve, that's good how else can you maintain your airplane if you didn't
know all it workings. Whenyou get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
on all Rv's of that type.
Good Luck.
Don
Mont Vernon,NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kbeene <Kbeene(at)aol.com> |
I am ready to label my instrument panel's switches and breakers and would
appreciate suggestions.
I have tested using individual ruboff letters from Geographics Products but
this is very difficult to keep aligned and they don't adhere well to the
glossy paint that I plan to use on the panel. A base coat / clear coat
method may be required. An approach where I could make the labels on a laser
or ink jet printer and transfer them to the panel would be nice.
Silk screening is probably the best but may be to costly for a production run
of one.
The panel is removable. Experience and suggestions appreciated.
Ken Beene
RV-6A
Burnsville, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
<< Steve, that's good how else can you maintain your airplane if you didn't
know all it workings. Whenyou get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
on all Rv's of that type. >>
Don,
Sorry but this statement is incorrect! When you recieve a Repairmans
certificate it is for the airplane you built and only the airplane you built.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
>
>Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>>
>>
>> Van's plans are best for a person who already knows something about how
>> aluminum airplanes are built. For example, I have compared them to Burts
*** snip ***
>>
>> My RV-6A is my first airplane, so I would benefit from getting the
>> theory as well as the instructions and dimensions. Just my opinion and
>> not a criticism or gripe! When I can't figure out what to do or why
>> something is the way it is on Van's plans, I do some research or call
>> for help. I am beginning my third year on this project, and I have
>> learned a lot about how airplanes are built. According to the FAA, we
>> are allowed to build and fly our own machines in part for education.
>> Boy have I got an education over the last two years!
>>
>>
>
>Steve, that's good how else can you maintain your airplane if you didn't
>know all it workings. Whenyou get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
>on all Rv's of that type.
Actually ... I believe the Repairman's Certificate is for YOUR Serial
Number ONLY, not for all RV's of a type. After all, it is YOUR name that
is on the registration as the manufacturer, so the FAA regards your plane
as different from all others ....:^)
... Gil (that's what my certificate said) Alexander
>
>Good Luck.
>
>Don
>Mont Vernon,NH
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
I am ready to pour my elevator counterbalance weights and would like to use
epoxy and lead shot instead of molten lead.
I also need a filler for filling the joing left by the fiberglass tips.
ACS has several flavors of epoxy to choose from. Could someone suggest an
epoxy that would be suitable for casting the weights and for making filler
with microballoons ?
Mark McGee
RV4 Finishing Elevators and starting Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
>The RV's conventional plan form requires a small down force on the horizontal
>tail to balance the lifting force on the wing. The only way this can happen
>is if the horiz stab flies at an attack angle less than that of the wing.
>
The incidence of the horizontal tail can be the same or even greater than
the wing and still have a negative angle of attack. The wing turns the air
downwards in the area behind it... downwash.
If the stabilizer is set up so that there is no down force with the elevator
neutral, the pilot will be required to add trim until the elevator produces
sufficient down force.
David Fried
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip A Lehrke" <plehrke(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
>Terrance Jantzi wrote:
>> placed additional stiffeners on some of the big sections
>> of flat skin in the rear belly/tail cone area. A great idea.
>> What I found was a crack coming from the last rivet on each additional
stiffener I had
>> installed.
Don Champagne wrote:
>That will teach you not to S---W with a sound design. It just bogs my
>mind someone with no aeronautical design background want to change
>something thats sound.
As an aeronautical engineer I learned early on that if you add additional
stiffness more load will be carried by those new stiffners. If the
surrounding structure was not designed for the additional load it will fail
(crack). Only add stiffners were you want to carry additional loads and
adequate backup structure is added. I would recommend contacting Van's
before changing any load paths.
Phil Lehrke
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
<< ACS has several flavors of epoxy to choose from. Could someone suggest an
epoxy that would be suitable for casting the weights and for making filler
with microballoons ? >>
The West system with the pumps is probably the easiest I've worked with. I'd
also suggest getting the slow activator. DO NOT MIX EPOXY RESIN IN WAXED
CUPS!!!
Visualize that first flight!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)rattler.gsfc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
Ken,
Actually silk-screening is a good way to go and you can do it yourself if
you are so inclined. I know you can also have a sign company do it for you.
If worked for an exhibit shop some time ago and we did a lot of custom
silkscreening. The cost would probably be the same by the time you bought
the equipment and taught yourself how. It's not difficult to learn but it
is a craft and as such requires some experience to learn to do so it looks
professional.
I posted something on the process to the list a year or so ago. You can
check the archive. If your real interested e-mail me off-list and I'll send
the detailed instruction to you.
Gene Gottschalk
>
>
>
>I am ready to label my instrument panel's switches and breakers and would
>appreciate suggestions.
>
>I have tested using individual ruboff letters from Geographics Products but
>this is very difficult to keep aligned and they don't adhere well to the
>glossy paint that I plan to use on the panel. A base coat / clear coat
>method may be required. An approach where I could make the labels on a
laser
>or ink jet printer and transfer them to the panel would be nice.
>
>Silk screening is probably the best but may be to costly for a production run
>of one.
>
>The panel is removable. Experience and suggestions appreciated.
>
>Ken Beene
>RV-6A
>Burnsville, MN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
F Mark40 wrote:
> I am ready to pour my elevator counterbalance weights and would like to use
> epoxy and lead shot instead of molten lead.
Be aware that lead shot is not as dense as molten lead and may not be
heavy enough to adequately balance the elevators.
Mike Denman
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Young <gyoung(at)bcm.tmc.edu> |
| Subject: | Liability concerns |
Since we are manufacturers, doesn't the new statute of repose apply to us
as well as BCPM? Our liability should end 17 (18?) years after manufacture
except for modifications. So just hold on to the plane (or hold your
breath) for that long and you're clear. Considering all of us priming our
planes so they'll last 100 yrs (me too!), the wait should be a piece of
cake.
Greg Young
RV-6 skinning fuselage (out of jig tomorrow!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
Mark:
For an Epoxy Filler that is like BONDO only lighter and stronger, I
recommend AEROPOXY Light. It has been working great for me. I sat in in
an Europa talk given by people from PTM&W Industries (the maker of
Aeropoxy and was impressed with them. I will be buying their products
when ever I need Epoxy.
Gary A. Sobek
EAA Tech Counselor
FAA A & P
N157GS RV-6 O-320 Hartzell
>
>I am ready to pour my elevator counterbalance weights and would like
>to use
>epoxy and lead shot instead of molten lead.
>
>I also need a filler for filling the joing left by the fiberglass
>tips.
>
>ACS has several flavors of epoxy to choose from. Could someone
>suggest an
>epoxy that would be suitable for casting the weights and for making
>filler
>with microballoons ?
>
>Mark McGee
>RV4 Finishing Elevators and starting Wings
om Geographics
>Products but this is very difficult to keep aligned and they don't
adhere well to the
>glossy paint that I plan to use on the panel. A base coat / clear coat
>method may be required. An approach where I could make the labels on a
laser
>or ink jet printer and transfer them to the panel would be nice.
>Silk screening is probably the best but may be to costly for a
>production run of one.
>
>The panel is removable. Experience and suggestions appreciated.
>
>Ken Beene
>RV-6A
>Burnsville, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
>When you get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P on all Rv's of that type.
The repairman's certificate is good only for the airplane that you build.
When you sell your RV, the new owner must have either you sign off the
annual condition inspection or an A&P.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
es up more
space. In other words, it's not as dense.
If you know a person that reloads and casts his own bullets, borrow his
iron pot and ladle and get a Coleman stove. Don't use a coffee can as the
seam is soldered and can melt. A bullet casters trick is to drop some
beeswax in the molten lead. Candle was will work, also. This causes the
impurities, or dross, to rise to the top and you can skim it off. Be
careful not to drip water or perspiration in the molten lead as it can cause
it to spatter hot lead all over.
If you're insistant on using shot/epoxy, I used Safe-T-Poxy and shot on
one elevator. Why, you ask? I cast weights in both elevators and allowed
excess that could be drilled out later for balancing. I drilled out too
much in the left elevator trying to get it to balance because---I forgot to
install the trim tab before balancing. Therefore, I used the epoxy/shot to
bring the elevator back into "specs". How embarrasing.
As to hiding the seam if I were to do it over again, I don't know if I
would. Some builders have had trouble with this joint cracking. I've got
390 hrs over 2 1/2 years on my six with no cracks, yet. I used Safe-T-Poxy
and micro ballons on mine. I looks fine but if it ever cracks, it won't.
Some builders have used Proseal and painted right over it with no problems.
I would have thought that pro seal's flexability would have made it not the
best choice for this use.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Repairmans certificate |
I want to thank all who called this to my attention. It's nice to
have someone looking out for errors.
Thanks again,
Don
RV6QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Tip-up canopy latch |
I have seen some different approaches to installing the Tip-up
canopy latch. Some had a button to pop the canopy open from the outside
with nothing else on the out side. I saw one with a key/button on the
outside. Has anyone did something like that. I would like to eliminate the
protuding safety latch release and the portion of the latching bar from
sticking outside while the canopy is closed and locked.
Has anyone done something like that? And how did you do it?
Happy New Year To All!
Denny RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Beatty, Gary A." <beatty.gary(at)mayo.edu> |
who
__!__
--------<*>--------
o O o
Gary A. Beatty, HIA Phone 507 266-5207
Mayo Foundation Fax 507 284-2597
200 First Street SW Pager 888 326-7243 PIN 0180
Rochester, MN 55905 area code+phone number+#
Email: beatty.gary(at)mayo.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
<34A8A18F.41C1(at)ix.netcom.com>
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
>
>
>
>Don Champagne wrote:
>
>> That will teach you not to S---W with a sound design. It just bogs my
>> mind someone with no aeronautical design background want to change
>> something thats sound.All you have to is glue some sound proofing strips
>> to the aluminum sides and this oil canning is taken care of.
>
>It just "bogs" my mind why anybody without any airplane constuction backround
>would want to build an airplane.
>
>Terry
>RV-6 C-GZRV many factory recommended improvements implemented after
>purchase of
>soundly designed kit.
>
>
>
Terry,
Don't let guys like this get you down. I for one appreciated the
info you posted. I was thinking of doing something similar to my
RV-8, and you may have saved me some grief. If no one posted info on
the problems they ran into, or the screw ups they had made this list
would be much less useful.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (working on rudder)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS for pitch and bank? |
>
>Has anyone used the gps system for a pitch or a turn indicator? It
would seem
>that the gps recievers are cheap enough that one could put one in each
wing
>tip, nose and tail and use the diferential signal readout to indicate
turn and
>pitch. Just dreaming.
There has been lots of research done in this area, and several GPS
attitude sensors are on the market. It works, but it is not cheap yet.
It could go down, so you would need some sort of backup as with a
standard attitude indicator. For the time being a conventional
attitude indicator is cheaper. Maybe GPS based attitude will be an
option in a few years.
See http://www.ormtec.demon.co.uk/sercel/nr230.htm (NR230MKII GPS
ATTITUDE SENSOR),
http://www.novatel.com/SERVICE/PAPERS/PDF/FILE44.PDF (Beeline RT20 - a
Compact, Medium
Precision Positioning system with an Attitude.),
http://stugyro.stanford.edu/GPS/ABS/att_and_displ_4ga_akb96.html
(GPS-Based Attitude and Guidance Displays for General Aviation),
http://www.trimble.com/press/presrel/030796a.htm Trimble press release
- Trimble's TANS Vector Updates GPS Attitude 10 Times Faster)
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (working on rudder)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A (Slaves??) |
Come on, guys, now here's an idea. We form two squadrons on RV's. One
Blue Team and One Gray Team, and have a real DOGFIGHT over this. Then,
at least we'd all be having a good time!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Yes. It will take you a long time to build!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Proctor <keithpr(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | GPS for pitch and bank? |
When GPS first came out, and we were told that the Gov't degraded the
signal, but that differential signals could position you within about 4 mm,
a friend of mine and I discussed this very type of attitude indicator. Even
with the low cost of the receivers, I don't think it is cheaper than buying
an extra (or two) electric attitude indicator, even if you built all the
circuitry and programming yourself.
Perhaps soon, though...
K
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cafgef [SMTP:Cafgef(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:33 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: GPS for pitch and bank?
>
>
> Has anyone used the gps system for a pitch or a turn indicator? It would
> seem
> that the gps recievers are cheap enough that one could put one in each
> wing
> tip, nose and tail and use the diferential signal readout to indicate turn
> and
> pitch. Just dreaming.
> Gene Francis RV-6A, With a month of work left to do and trying to find
> that
> month.
> Comment:
> Being from the south I was taught that "you all" was plural and "y'all"
> was
> singular
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
The biggest problem I see with the RV-6 is that it's not an RV-8!
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS for pitch and bank? |
> Has anyone used the gps system for a pitch or a turn indicator?
Your to late, somebody has already done that. Well sort of. I know that
some labs have experimented with just such a idea with success, but it
requires an extremely accurate result. As you mention differential is
used. There are other problems that today make gyros still look cheap. I
don't know the commercial viability.
Dan
RV6 almost there
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS for pitch and bank? |
Gene Francis wrote:
> gps recievers are cheap enough that one could put one in each wing
> tip, nose and tail and use the diferential signal readout to indicate turn
> and
> pitch. Just dreaming.
Stop dreaming. Start crying. *Someone Else* has already done this on a
certified test platform and as reported in Sport Aviation a few years back, it
worked very well indeed. Maybe now we will see such a system (sans TSO, of
course) priced in reach of us homebuilders. GPS engines are, as you noted,
getting dirt cheap ($99 in K-Mart). The trick is to use several patch
antennas located as you described, but one receiver to compare phase and
calculate rate of change info to be fed to a display.
BTW, someone has also tried out a rotating "laser-level" inside the cockpit to
project a red artificial horizon line all around the cockpit; sort of a
surround-sound gyro-horizon reference. What do you do if it reflects just
wrong off an instrument face and blinds you? I don't know... just recalling
what I read a few yrs back.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Just thought I'd mention that I'm a new guy on your list. Drove down to
Oregon yesterday and got a ride in the RV8; now I'm hooked. But most
importantly, John Morgan also took my wife up and she's hooked too. Walked
out with a tail kit in the back of my Suburban, though hadn't intended to
when I walked in. Looked at their proof of concept quick build kit for the
8, and will probably go that route. They hope to have the first QB kits
available in April. Question for you RV6QB builders: have you been happy
with the quality of the product? I know that there are errors in the
plans, and I find the comments about using the plans as a guide only an eye
opener. I didn't know that. My concern with a quick build kit is that do
the assemblers in the Philippines know that. If they build them exactly to
the plans, then wouldn't they be built incorrectly, or are they given
enough guidance by Van & company to make them right.
As you might guess from my return address I am a Kitfox builder and owner.
I live in the Seattle area. Now to start assembling all those tools!
Mike Robbins
kitfox(at)gte.net
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
> Whenyou get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
> on all Rv's of that type.
Not unless something's changed. Used to be (and I think still is) when you
get that Repairman's Certificate, it's good for that airplane and that
airplane only. Not your buddy's, not another RV-6A built exactly per the
plans, but *the* specimen that bears the serial number matching the one on
your Repairman's Certificate. If this has indeed changed, someone please let
us all know. Maybe the kinder, gentler FAA is giving away type-specific A&P
licenses now.
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thread engagement specs |
Question: from a guy whose Bingelis books are still packed away after
moving...
What's the minimum acceptable number of threads or length of shank engaged in
a rod-end for an Aroura-type bearing with 5/16 shank?? It appears, now that I
have carefully jigged and rigged my joysticks parallel and plumb in the -6A
that I measured and cut the aileron push tubes a tad *short*a few weeks
ago.... I have 9 threads (3/8 inch) engaged on all 4 of these rod-end
bearings when the aileron bellcrank is in the specified neutral position per
the plans. Am I in trouble?
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Hi Mike,
Welcome to the world of RVs.
Don't get hung up on this talk on the list about errors in the plans.
(I posted a few of the items myself.) We are talking about small stuff
that you work around easily once you get into the project.
Typically you find the plans show a thing of a particular dimension goes
somewhere, but you see that on your airplane you need to make the thing
a little longer/shorter/thicker/wider/etc. If you give Vans a call they
can tell you right away if you are on the right track or not. Sometimes
they tell you that other builders are also making their thing
longer/shorter/thicker/wider/etc too.
After this happens a few times, one or more the builders on the list
posts something about the plans being off. Well ... the plans may be
off or the airplane in the garage may be off, who knows? Overall the
plans are good enough. All kinds of people have found them to be good
enough too. 1,700+ of these birds flying and maybe three or four times
that number under construction.
Work hard and happy New Year to you and all on the list.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-10 degrees outside, 19" of fresh snow last night
RV6A fuselage in the shop, skinning the tail and watching it look like
an airplane!
-----Original Message-----
I know that there are errors in the
plans, and I find the comments about using the plans as a guide
only an eye
opener. I didn't know that. My concern
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
| Subject: | Clecoe Maintenance and oiling |
My clecoes are not as easy to squeeze open and also do not grip as well
after 2.5 years of use. They would work better if the moving parts were
lubbed with oil. Has anyone come up with a way to oil a large number of
them efficiently without creating a mess?
Other maintenance items for clecoes?
Bob Haan
bobh(at)cdac.com
Portland, OR
503-579-2729
RV6A 24461 Fuse out of jig, working on forward deck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Robbins" <robm(at)am2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thread engagement specs |
Bill would you really feel comfortable with 9 threads forever vs the meager
expense of making new rods?
>
>Question: from a guy whose Bingelis books are still packed away after
>moving...
>What's the minimum acceptable number of threads or length of shank engaged
in
>a rod-end for an Aroura-type bearing with 5/16 shank?? It appears, now
that I
>have carefully jigged and rigged my joysticks parallel and plumb in the -6A
>that I measured and cut the aileron push tubes a tad *short*a few weeks
>ago.... I have 9 threads (3/8 inch) engaged on all 4 of these rod-end
>bearings when the aileron bellcrank is in the specified neutral position
per
>the plans. Am I in trouble?
>
>Bill Boyd
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
----------
>I know that there are errors in the
> plans, and I find the comments about using the plans as a guide only an
eye
> opener. I didn't know that.
Don't let these statements scare you off. All the repeated whining and
bitching about Van's plans and manual are misplaced and unfounded. You
should see some of the plans out there that are mere sketches and run to
maybe 15 pages.
Perhaps these whiners would be better served if they just build a god*mn
birdhouse. At least that way they will still be involved in aviating.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thread engagement specs |
If you can pass a small piece of safety wire throughn the witness hole it is
too short, otherwise you are okay---if I undersdtood question.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Robbins" <robm(at)am2.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
RM could you expound on the litigation involving the RM accident?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglass Tip Plugs |
>>What have most of you found to be the best way to fill the open ends of
the
fiberglass tips on the elevators and rudder? I am thinking of using 3/4"
pine
cut to fit and fiberglassed in place. I like the idea of forming aluminum
plugs, but don't like the fact that I would have to pop rivet them in
place,
as the pop rivets would be visible from outside<<.
I used 1/2" balsa from the local hoby shop. It is lighter and easier to
cut / sand to shape than pine. Although with the elevators, weight is not
a factor. The more the forward end of the tip weighs, the more lead you
can remove when you balance the controls and since the lead is on a shorter
arm you will remove more weight than you add at the tip opening. I too,
think it looks better than a pop riveted aluminum plug and when painted no
one will know what it is made of.
>> Also, is it best to waituntil the tail is mounted on the plane to
install the tips, so that the lead
weights can be filed and trimmed for proper balance? Or can this just be
done
right on the bench, while mounted to the HS? Opinions Appreciated!<<
The elevator should not be balanced until after painting. It is probaly OK
to partially balance before (I'm sure someone will let us know) expecially
if you intend on flying before painting. But, it will have to be
rebalanced after paint or it will become elevator heavy (under balanced)
when a neutral balance is desired. Any lead that needs to be removed can
be removed from the inboard weights and judging from mine, it won't be a
lot.
Scott A. Jordan
-8 #331
N733JJ Reserved
Wing order goes in next week
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Devlin" <jdevlin(at)americus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Pre-punched wings |
Mark,
I agree completely with all your comments on the precision of the
prepunched wing kit. If I had to do it over again (and I might) I would
follow the Justice building notes implicitly. He says to drill the rib
reenforcing angles centerline with the prepunched spar holes and they will
line up with the skins. I chose to use the prepunched skins as the
"perfect" template. In the end I could have saved a lot of time and
contemplation merely drilling them centerline per the Justice instructions.
My rib centerline to prepunched skin hole alignment came out OK but it
would have been easier to follow the instructions without overthinking the
problem. It cost me a month.
Nota bene: Don't use the two 14 foot 1/8 inch 3/4 inch angle
aluminum for the reenforcing angles. They 're for the fuselage main
longerons. Another example of Van's preplanning and user focus.
Good luck building.
Happy New Year,
John Devlin
----------
> From: F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 Pre-punched wings
> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 1:45 PM
>
>
> Greetings Listers.
>
> I took delivery of my wing kit yesterday and finished inventory today.
It
> arrived just as I am finishing up the left elevator.
>
> The pre-punched skins and pre-drilled spars are a beautiful sight. There
are
> hundreds of precise little holes. The leading edges are all bent. The
joggle
> for the inspection plate is even formed.
>
> The spars are all pre-drilled and the reinforcing strips are already
tapered.
> The lightening holes are drilled. The fuselage bulkhead is pre-drilled
to the
> spar and to the hardened steel splice plates. All the spar related parts
are
> engraved with their serial number and are mated for life.
>
> The ribs have their lightening holes all drilled out and the spar
clearance
> notches are already cut.
>
> Even the aileron stiffeners are pre-tapered.
>
> It is truly a beautiful kit and it is designed to ensure builder success.
I
> have no doubt I can finish this airplane in a reasonable amount of time.
>
> Having built my empennage from the old style non pre-punched kit, I am a
> little concerned about the positioning of the ribs such that they will
fall
> under the skin holes. I almost think I will have to figure out a way to
use
> the skins to jig up the ribs. This will be awkward, I think.
>
> I have the non pre-punched video, so it is no help here.
>
> Have any of you built pre-punched wings ? If so, how did you ensure
alignment
> of the ribs to the skin holes ?
>
> Mark McGee
> RV4 Wings
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Listers,
I was "asked" by my ISP today to "quit using their mail server as a Mail
Relay". The load on their server from the RV and Zenith Lists was high
enough for them to notice. Over the last couple of days I have been
experimenting with local delivery from my Sun system over the new dialup
Internet connection. The jury is still out on how well this is going
to work in the long term since, with over 800 members on the List, there
are always quite a few email addresses that don't work at any given time.
Also, the amount of DNS traffic alone generated by one message to the
List is significant.
I will be keeping a close eye on the List operation over the next few days
and will be removing addresses that have any kind of problems as well as
working on a higher performance solution.
Thanks for understanding...
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Listers,
I was "asked" by my ISP today to "quit using their mail server as a Mail
Relay". The load on their server from the RV and Zenith Lists was high
enough for them to notice. Over the last couple of days I have been
experimenting with local delivery from my Sun system over the new dialup
Internet connection. The jury is still out on how well this is going
to work in the long term since, with over 800 members on the List, there
are always quite a few email addresses that don't work at any given time.
Also, the amount of DNS traffic alone generated by one message to the
List is significant.
I will be keeping a close eye on the List operation over the next few days
and will be removing addresses that have any kind of problems as well as
working on a higher performance solution.
Thanks for understanding...
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
Matronics
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
<110014.1237(at)compuserve.com>
>
>I have heard many good things regarding the RV series. I am considering
>building a RV-6. Is there anyone
>who has anything negative to say?
>
Robert,
I am appx. half way through my tail kit and find it a joy to work with. I
realize that I'm working on the "easy" part now, but at the same time I'm
learning how to work with the stuff (different, not hard) and gaining
confidence. I work woth my hands for a living, so the dexterity is there
(usually), but it is a different set of skills you have to aquire through
experience.
Beg, borrow or buy a ride in an RV and you won't care if you have to mine
your own bauxite to build these things. It's worth it!!
Jon Elford
RV 6
Rudder
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
> I would recommend that you cast the weights. Did I read that Van now has
>pre-cast weights that bolt in?
Listers,
Bob is correct. My RV6 emp kit (purchased 9/97) has pre-cast elevator
counterweights. One call to Van's with Visa in hand should end all your
concerns. Part# E-614 (RV6, obviously), my price sheet shows them at $5.56
each.
Happy New Year to all!!
Jon Elford
RV 6 or 6A (had mind made up on a 6A, thinking twice now. Plenty of time to
decide, though)
Rudder
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
the rudder.
Not sure of the depth of threads in the cones, but it is probably in
the order of 1/2 ". If you only grip 3/8 ", I would not settle for this. An
easy fix is available.
BTW, remember that screwing in rods as far as they will go does not ensure
more grip as you come to a point where you are gripping air (nothing at
all) on some of those threads that are internal of the structure..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Sure there are negatives but it is by far the best kit on the market by a long
shot!
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- "Peace on earth, good will to all RV builders"
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
> I have heard many good things regarding the RV series. I am considering
> building a RV-6. Is there anyone
> who has anything negative to say?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I have installed an extra J-channel stiffener in the middle of the belly
to relieve the area of oil-canning that was present while skinning the
aft fuselage. This j-channel is not attached to the bulkheads, and came
as a RECOMMENDATION from Van's (Ken Scott.)
Thanks,
Bob Japundza
Integrated Information Services, LLC
bjapundza@iis-intellect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Don, where did you get this info? Better read the large print in FAR Part 65,
Section 65.104. (ref. AC 65-23A)
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
When you get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
on all Rv's of that type.
Good Luck.
Don
Mont Vernon,NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Guy/plans probs |
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe) |
Have you found any instances in your plans where dimensions on one
drawing are contradicted by dimensions for the same part on another
drawing? Have you found any instances where the dimensions are simply
not given? Has it ever taken you more than an hour to find dimensions or
specifications for a part because the information was located on an
otherwise somewhat unrelated drawing?
Is this whining? No. Is it unfounded? Hardly. Can a great airplane be
built from the information and assistance provided by Van's? Absolutely.
Can the plans and instructions be improved? IMHO, yes. Bottom line:
there *are* errors in the plans and instructions that make things more
difficult than they could otherwise be. OTOH, once you realize this and
stop looking at the plans as if they were the Dead Sea Scrolls, it all
becomes that much easier.
Don't get me wrong - it's a great airplane and the support from Van's is
outstanding. But, that doesn't change the facts as far as the plans are
concerned...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 finishing kit
writes:
>Don't let these statements scare you off. All the repeated whining and
>bitching about Van's plans and manual are misplaced and unfounded. You
>should see some of the plans out there that are mere sketches and run
>to maybe 15 pages. Perhaps these whiners would be better served if they
just build a
>god*mn birdhouse. At least that way they will still be involved in
aviating.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
I guess some folks are tiring of this thread but I saw were one oof the Legal
types said get an A&P to do a presell annual so he will carry the
responsibility. I think perhaps sometimes laywyers forger we are not all born
yesterday. As an A&P I willno do an Annualunless I am provided the
Manufactuers Inspection List, Type Certificate Data Sheet, Pilot Operating
Manual, Part43 and AC43-13. As an A&P I am not saying the AC is airworthy
---but instead that it conforms to it Type Cert.For a homebuilt the owner
would have to provide me the above except for the TCD. In its stead I would
want the plans, Bluprints, Construction Manual, Construction log &
photos,Flight test data, a list of deviations and mods( from the plans)
incorporated into the ac and an MEL. and of course complete logs (any ac),
required paperwork and documents. Guess where all this comes from---you the
builder and manufaturer. I am in complete sympathy with those who may want to
sell there machines as I may wish to do the same thing at some time and wish
not to be sued, but no lawyer builder is going to lay his responsibility on
this little old A&P. You are the manuf. and all I can do is say the airplane
meets your specs. Again--when an A&P signs an Annual all he is doing is
stating that the ac meets its specified TCD and is therefore determined to be
incompliace and therefore airworthy because the manufactuer said so. Happy New
Year--Its all going to be ok. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
Thanks to all who posted on this problem because it may help me on my 4. You
do not have to have an aircraft construction background( whatever that is) to
build an RV. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
>I am ready to label my instrument panel's switches and breakers and would
>appreciate suggestions.
>Ken Beene
Ken,
I had a sign shop make my placards, the "Experimental" and baggage
placards. The guy installed the lettering on the panel---all of this for
$45.00 back in 94. Early last year, I had him make some extra labels for my
panel for the electronic ignition switches, pulse lights and a few other
items and he charged me $40.00, so prices have gone up considerably from
this shop. Maybe you can find someone locally who will do the job for a
reasonable price. Most of my panel lettering was 1/4" (or just a little
smaller) which was as small as he could go and it's alittle more work to
make these small letters. They've held up well and look good.
A RV friend in Gillette, showed me a lable making machine that he bought
at Wal Mart. He printed out a few labels for me and I "tested" them. The
adhesive seems adequate. Even if a label pealed off, this unit is cheap
enough and easy enough to use that it would be no problem to print another.
The labels he printed were black lettering on a white background. I believe
that he said that clear tape was available. The clear tape could be cut
pretty close to the lettering but there would be some reflection off the
clear tape which is a problem that you would not have with the vinyl lettering.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
<< who,where, is E.A.R. >>
Please check out the list of suppliers in the RV Builders' Yeller Pages at:
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malia Mondy <malia(at)truman.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
WoodardRod wrote:
> In every case, I ask for attorney's fees and so far, I've
> NEVER had a judge award them. I think it'd put an end to a lot of the BS cases
> that clog our legal system and would make people AND lawyers think twice about
> bringing shakedown cases if judges were more open to awarding costs and
> attorney's fees.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rod Woodard
> RV-8, #80033
> Loveland, Colorado [go CSU...winners of this year's holiday bowl.]
>
Aw, now, Rod, in your expert legal opinion, don't you think Mizzou got
robbed?!? :)
Admittedly, here in Missouri, we're just ecstatic to finally have a
winning season -- win, lose, or draw, the bowl game was icing on the
cake!
Malia Mondy
native Missourian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Michael J. Robbins wrote:
>
>
> Just thought I'd mention that I'm a new guy on your list. Drove down to
> Oregon yesterday and got a ride in the RV8; now I'm hooked. But most
> importantly, John Morgan also took my wife up and she's hooked too. Walked
> out with a tail kit in the back of my Suburban, though hadn't intended to
> when I walked in. Looked at their proof of concept quick build kit for the
> 8, and will probably go that route. They hope to have the first QB kits
> available in April. Question for you RV6QB builders: have you been happy
> with the quality of the product? I know that there are errors in the
> plans, and I find the comments about using the plans as a guide only an eye
> opener. I didn't know that. My concern with a quick build kit is that do
> the assemblers in the Philippines know that. If they build them exactly to
> the plans, then wouldn't they be built incorrectly, or are they given
> enough guidance by Van & company to make them right.
>
> As you might guess from my return address I am a Kitfox builder and owner.
> I live in the Seattle area. Now to start assembling all those tools!
>
> Mike Robbins
> kitfox(at)gte.net
> Issaquah, WA
>
Mike,
I purchased an Rv-6QB last December and have been working on it
daily. I have found that drawings supplied are OK! they could be better,
but no the less are sufficient to perform the task at hand. You need to
do two things in the construction of your RV. 1. Is to look ahead as you
build to build with ease. That is to say make it easy on yourself leave
the top of the aircraft open as long as you can to make all the work in
the inside from the firewall back to the tail simple without having to
crawl inside. That includes mounting the engine on the firewall
temporarily to see were you can and cannot mount whatever on the inside
and outside without being limited to working space. 2. Go between the
drawings and the manual to build. It takes a little searching sometimes
to find what you want. However, you'll find it if you look long enough.
They don't have the info always as you would like. I did all this and the
time spent was very little compared to some i've heard of. I could go on
and on and If you wish I will help you if you e-mail privately. I will be
flying this spring and I'm enjoying the building. Van's is very helpful
if you get stuck, so press on and get with it you'll have a ball.
Don
RV-6QB N767DC
Installing Instrument panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Gibbons" <planenuts(at)theonramp.net> |
| Subject: | Measuring Pro-Seal |
Fred Stucklen wrote:
"I'd be interested in how you're measuring the Pro-Seal. I'm in the
process of building a small balance beam scale (from model airplane
plywood). On my first RV, I just eyeballed it. No problems to date (1025
Hrs in four + years), but would like to do a better job this
time........"
If you have a friend who reloads ammunition, borrow his scale. I used
my RCBS 10-10 scale that is very accurate to 1/10 grain (which is
1 / 70,000 of a pound) to measure / mix my Pro-Seal.
Bob Gibbons
80067
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hangar Floor Cracks |
<< While not directly related to RV's, this is a problem alot of us have with
our
hangars. What is the best way to patch cracks in the concrete hangar floor?
>>
I'd mix a little sand with some pro-seal and have at those cracks with a zip
lock bag (filled with the mixture and the corner cut out) and a putty knife.
Almost a color match too.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
> The biggest problem I see with the RV-6 is that it's not an RV-8!
Imho I think that the RV-6 looks better than the 8 any day of the week.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
<< To further protect yourself, YOU should HIRE an A&P to do a through pre-
sale
inspection. Now you have a disinterested witness to testify as to the
condition
of the plane prior to sale. If it turns out he missed something, sue him. >>
Remind me to never help anyone with a prebuy or anything aircraft related
again. Especially this guy.
Ryan A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
<< The incidence of the horizontal tail can be the same or even greater than
the wing and still have a negative angle of attack. The wing turns the air
downwards in the area behind it... downwash.>>
This may very well be. My original point was that one should not use positive
horizontal stabilizer incidence to overcome a weight and balance problem.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
<< Since we are manufacturers, doesn't the new statute of repose apply to us
as well as BCPM? Our liability should end 17 (18?) >>
For those of you who cannot sleep at night or are getting ulcers because of
liability concerns mabe you should find a new hobby and buy a production bird.
Try building and enjoy flying before you worry about selling. Who knows you
may end up liking it enough to keep it. Lets not put the cart before the
horse. If you are building with the intention of selling then you are taking a
risk and lets face it risk is what life is all about. Every morning when you
walk out that door you take another chance.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Inspections and Insurance |
Don, since you seem to be the only one on the list whose homeowners insurance
covers aircraft, or parts thereof, stored in thier home, it would be nice if
you shared with us what insurance company provides this coverage. For what
amount is your coverage and is there an extra premium for it, and if so, how
much is it?
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
RV-List message posted by: Don Champagne
> Better read the fine print!
>
> Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
I have. Besides I don't make comments that aren't fact. And for the
record I'm not insured with State Farm.
Don Champagne/RV6Q/ Mont Vernon, NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | FAA Documents on Web |
Hello listers,
I ran across a pretty nifty web site last night.
ftp://ftp.fedworld.gov/pub/faa-oai/faa-oai.htm
Maybe it's old news and I'm behind... Anyway, I just finished downloading AC
90-89A "Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook." It's
in Adobe Acrobat format. You can download the Acrobat reader from the web for
free and voila! you've now got the FAA docs right on your computer. I don't
think I'll be printing the 99 page handbook, but it'll be nice to have around
for a quick reference to view on screen.
Best to all,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorardo [Go K-State! (half-time now) I'm a transplant from
Manhattan]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
>
> I then paid $130 and had the 0.063 aluminum engraved at
> a local shop. I painted it and filled the lettering with a "paint
> stick". I think it looks as great as the airplane flys.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> >I am ready to label my instrument panel's switches and breakers and
> >would appreciate suggestions.
> >The panel is removable. Experience and suggestions appreciated.
Ken Beene
Ken,
Engraving does look nice but it can have a couple of drawbacks.(in
addition to cost.) If you engrave the panel itself and later change
something on your panel the lable may not be correct any longer. I
changed the generator on my Piper to an alternator and my engraved panel
still says generator.(for example) This problem can be avoided if you
engrave a thin removable panel that fits under your switch and is held
in place by the switch nut.(not as sexy but probably more practical)
A second problem is solved by attention to layout and can be a problem
with any labeling scheme. The problem is "line of sight". If you lable
a switch with its function directly below the switch and then mount the
switch at the bottom of your panel, you may not be able to see the
lettering ie since you are now looking "down" on the switch, the switch
hides the lable. The solution, of course, is to put the lable where you
can still see it when the switch is in place and you are sitting in the
position you need to fly the plane. For switches at the bottom of the
panel this means lables on the top side or on the bottom side but spaced
down an additional amount. I hope this makes sense. Call me if it
doesn't.
Mike Denman
650 968-5822
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pmartin Compaq" <Pmartin(at)gbonline.com> |
Dear Mike,
I am currently building an RV8 and I am very pleased with both the kit and
the plans. I will admit that there are a few errors in the plans, however
they are in my opinion, insignificant. Yes they did cause me a few delays,
but I expected to find some glitches. Any time that I called Vans, they
were very helpful and explained the problems. Also I noted that they
quickly amended plans that had serious errors. I have the #2 RV8 and I
expected some start up problems. Vans has ironed out just about all of
these problems now and I doubt if you will have serious problems. I am now
riviting the final forward fuselage skins and expect to remove the fuselage
from the jig next week. I am using a Lycoming IO360A1B6 hopped up to 220 hp
and a new Hartzell high speed airfoil prop. I expect to exceed 220mph. and
I won't be happy until I can pass us Dave Anders. I have designed with
Electronic Int. a very simple capacitance fuel sender. I you are
interested, it must be installed when you build your fuel tanks.
good luck
Dick Martin RV8 N233M
----------
> From: Michael J. Robbins <kitfox(at)gte.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: New Guy
> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 1:43 PM
>
>
> Just thought I'd mention that I'm a new guy on your list. Drove down to
> Oregon yesterday and got a ride in the RV8; now I'm hooked. But most
> importantly, John Morgan also took my wife up and she's hooked too.
Walked
> out with a tail kit in the back of my Suburban, though hadn't intended to
> when I walked in. Looked at their proof of concept quick build kit for
the
> 8, and will probably go that route. They hope to have the first QB kits
> available in April. Question for you RV6QB builders: have you been
happy
> with the quality of the product? I know that there are errors in the
> plans, and I find the comments about using the plans as a guide only an
eye
> opener. I didn't know that. My concern with a quick build kit is that do
> the assemblers in the Philippines know that. If they build them exactly
to
> the plans, then wouldn't they be built incorrectly, or are they given
> enough guidance by Van & company to make them right.
>
> As you might guess from my return address I am a Kitfox builder and
owner.
> I live in the Seattle area. Now to start assembling all those tools!
>
> Mike Robbins
> kitfox(at)gte.net
> Issaquah, WA
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Pre-punched wings |
In a message dated 12/31/97 8:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jdevlin(at)americus.net writes:
> Nota bene: Don't use the two 14 foot 1/8 inch 3/4 inch angle
> aluminum for the reenforcing angles. They 're for the fuselage main
> longerons. Another example of Van's preplanning and user focus.
The wing kit has a page with a warning not to cut those pieces of angle. But
I put a warning tag on them just so I don't grab them by mistake a few months
from now.
Mark
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instruments, avionics, etc.Terra Transponder |
<< Transponder: I currently use a KT76A in my Cheetah. However, I'm
> leaning toward the Terra with Terra encoder.
>
I had a Terra digital transponder in my Cherokee. I didn't like it because it
was a pain in the tookus to tune. The numbers change and different rates
depending on how fast you turn the knob... that didn't come out right... I
mean they jumped numbers if you turned the knob quickly. It never failed that
the turbulence started right after I was given a new squawk code. >>
This was exactly my experience when I flew across the US this fall in his 6. I
will have a transponder that has a tuner for each of the digits.
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A (Slaves??) |
Well are we gonna do the Paint Ball Guns mounted on the wings or the Lazer Tag
Gun & receiver, I would rather go with Lazer so our friends with great paint
jobs dont get messed up.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/1/98 7:58:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Pmartin(at)gbonline.com writes:
> I have designed with
> Electronic Int. a very simple capacitance fuel sender. I you are
> interested, it must be installed when you build your fuel tanks.
Having just gotten my wing kit and seeing that the fuel sender is an optional
item, I would like to eliminate the float type unit and go with a non-moving
type. Would you tell me more about the capacitive sender ? Did you use an
over the counter transducer and receiver ?
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tip Plugs |
Von
Rather than pine, why not a peice of foam ( lighter than pine ) & fiberglass
the hole peice in place - West System makes some great fillers etc.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
The big problem with the RV8 - Its not a Harmmon Rocket - If you want to go
fast the logical choice is the Faster Machine - the RV8 does not seem to offer
the Speed
that the Rocket Offers,
I would like to get a demo in a Rocket.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
Hey Guys:
For the new Builders - We are gonna screw up a few things & I know I am
depending on all the Old Timers ( they have been there ) to help me avoid a
few of the Pot Holes. So nothing that anyone does by mistake or otherwise
ahould be meet with a negitive response.
We have to help one another - Lets face it we are not a Majority. Pilot
Builders
are far & few between.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
Welcome Mike:
I have afriend out here on Long Island that has a quick build kit he is not
active on the net, but I was impressed with the quality of the Kit also when
it arrived it looked like an Airplane ready to go.
Good Luck
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Pre-punched wings |
I guess that your Wing left the factory with mine, I'm scheduled to receive
it on Monday the 5th of January. I was glad to see your note regarding the
quality and completeness of the Wing Kit.
Thanks for the words of encouragement
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Clecoe Maintenance and oiling |
| From: | Stig Holm <stig.holm(at)klippan.mail.telia.com> |
When halfway through the fuselage we suddenly realized a shortage of
3/32-clecoes and borrowed some from a guy whos planning of building an RV
but hasnt got his *** out of the wagon. Now, these clecoes are not up the
standards we have experienced with our own. They look the same, are even
marked "CLEKOLOC". The only visual difference is that the top is more
"shiny" compared to the greyish color of the old ones. Problem is that they
are some 1/1000ths narrower and tends to slip out of dimpled holes in thin
skin(drilled to #41). They also corrodes faster and have less clamping
force. Has anyone else had the same experience?
----------
> Frn: Bob Haan
> Till: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> mne: RV-List: Clecoe Maintenance and oiling
>
>
>My clecoes are not as easy to squeeze open and also do not grip as well
>after 2.5 years of use. They would work better if the moving parts were
>lubbed with oil. Has anyone come up with a way to oil a large number of
>them efficiently without creating a mess?
>
>Other maintenance items for clecoes?
>
>
>Bob Haan
>bobh(at)cdac.com
>Portland, OR
>503-579-2729
>RV6A 24461 Fuse out of jig, working on forward deck
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel selector in wing root |
| From: | Stig Holm <stig.holm(at)klippan.mail.telia.com> |
I have an idea of installing the fuel selector in the left wing root la
Cherokee. Reason is that I will build a center console for installing a
salvaged Cherokee throttle quadrant and the self-locking trim handle sold by
Aircraft Spruce. The layout I have made feels good but requires the fuel
selector to be replaced. The more I think of it, the better I like the idea
because it also removes all couplings out of the cabin, reducing the risk of
inboard fuel leaks. The right wing fuel line will only pass right through. I
am also thinking of installing the electric boost pump there, downstream
from the selector valve. I have however not intended to locate the
gascolator there.
OK, guys. I would appreciate some brainstorming now. Pros and coins?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
Terry,
Thanks for the posting. I put stiffeners in my RV6A in that position as
well. I will watch for cracks and post to the list if I find any (currently
have 70hrs + TT). I am really glad that there are people on this list that
share both their good and bad experiences so we can all learn and be safer
builders and pilots.
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Problems with the RV6 plans. |
In my opinion, the plans were very adequate. In fact, my 13 and 15 year old
made a good portion of my plane by reading them. In the few instances where
we had a question, VANS support staff resolved them in minutes. Since I
never built a plane before, or anything aluminum, they must have been very
adequate, because my teenagers and I completed the RV6A in a year and a
half. We were rewarded with a 200 m.p.h. airplane that outclimbs everything
at my airport except one T-28.
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com RV6A 70HRS+ TT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
J E REHLER wrote:
> What was the name of his horse??
Red's horse was Thunder. Little Beaver's was Papoose.
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc Hanson <paintbox(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | RV-list:AC43.13...RV-Ation Bookstore |
Andy-RV-Ation Bookstore,
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com looks like a beautiful part of the country,
but being in the beginning stages of gathering tools for a soon to be
ordered 6A emmpenage kit, I don't have time or the cash to visit. I
would like to visit the RV-ATION BOOKSTORE though,but am unable to
locate it at the web address...could you help me out?
Marc Hanson
paintbox(at)rconnect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Devlin" <jdevlin(at)americus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
Ken,
My son gave me a handheld Brother PT-85 labelmaker bought at Staples
office supplies for Christmas. The tapes are black on white, silver, gold,
blue, green, and pink. The features on this unit include five font sizes,
italics, bold, shadow and several differnt frames. I intented to use this
for labelling electrical wiring but they look so good I will try it on my
panel. Since it was a gift, I don't know the price but probably under $50.
Hope this helps.
Best regards,
John
----------
> From: Kbeene <Kbeene(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Panel lettering
> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 12:10 AM
>
>
>
>
> I am ready to label my instrument panel's switches and breakers and would
> appreciate suggestions.
>
> I have tested using individual ruboff letters from Geographics Products
but
> this is very difficult to keep aligned and they don't adhere well to the
> glossy paint that I plan to use on the panel. A base coat / clear coat
> method may be required. An approach where I could make the labels on a
laser
> or ink jet printer and transfer them to the panel would be nice.
>
> Silk screening is probably the best but may be to costly for a production
run
> of one.
>
> The panel is removable. Experience and suggestions appreciated.
>
> Ken Beene
> RV-6A
> Burnsville, MN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
I acquired a couple sheets of adhesive backed transparent mylar and used
wordperfect to create all my placards and labels. You can make them in
any size, font and even color if you have a color lazer printer. They
are removable with a heat gun, will not leave any residue on your panel,
weigh nothing and cost next to nothing. The sheets are 8.5 x ll inches
is size and come in transparent or white background. My panel is light
grey so the black lettering constrasts nicely with the grey background.
The nice thing is they are easily changed later on down the road as you
modify you panel with additional instruments, placards etc.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
Finally sent off paperwork for FAA inspection and will fill tanks today.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
When designing and installing N Numbers on the tail or fuselage be sure
to consult FAR 45.29. It covers letter and number proportionality
requirements which are easily overlooked. FAR 45.29 is available on the
"LANDINGS" web site.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: intro and RV-8A question |
posted by John Darby:
>> See why us southerners invented ya'll or yawl or you all? It is non
>> specific of anything and makes us politically correct before its' time. So
>> much more political correct than youse guys.:-)
posted by some one else:
>Just remember one thing however. The Pilgrims landed on our shores and
>not the souths. We learned to talk as they did. You bought the slaves and
>learned to talk as they did.:-
Let me apologize to the list for my improper post.
Never again shall I attempt humor in a post to the list. I now realize that
the list is for factual, technical, non-humorist posting by responsible
people only. Since the message that corrected me was posted by some one
that never post anything except factual, properly researched data, I am
found out regarding my background and now realize that there is no way I
cannot accept the responsibility of my actions.
I stand properly chastised for my error in having selected the incorrect
area of the world in which to have been born and reared, thus bringing upon
myself an improper education in the proper use of the English language.
I realize that it will be insufficient, but please accept my apology for
having done anything as foolish, immoral, and improper as purchasing those
slaves. However, I hope that having brought on the burden of my poor
education, it has somewhat chastised me for the error of my ways.
I accept fully the responsibility of my actions and shall forever go
through life suffering the ignominy due me.
God, I pray every night that I could be perfect like some people! But so
far He has not answered my prayers as He has others. I guess it is
punishment for my actions.
I know it may be difficult, but I hope you (plural of you) have fun.
John Darby
Stephenville TX
johnd@our-town.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
Dick,
I have some specific questions about your RV-8. Tried sending you a direct
message and it returned. Please contact me at Lousmith(at)aol.com.
Thanks,
Louis Smith
Lousmith(at)aol.com
RV-8 N801RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
> From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
> I have held off on NavAid sending me the panel mount part until I
> decided which GPS I will use.
Any of the "panel mount part" gps couplers (manufactured by Porcine,
www.porcine.com) will work with the Navaid and any GPS capable of NMEA0183
or standard aviation data formats (i.e. most all of them).
Basically, you can install whichever coupler best suits your needs now, and
it will be okay with any GPS you decide on later.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Laser Horizon Line |
>
> BTW, someone has also tried out a rotating "laser-level" inside the
cockpit to
> project a red artificial horizon line all around the cockpit; sort of a
> surround-sound gyro-horizon reference. What do you do if it reflects
just
> wrong off an instrument face and blinds you? I don't know... just
recalling
> what I read a few yrs back.
>
> Bill Boyd
Bill,
Most alignment lasers suitable for bright sunlight use have output powers
that are below the threshold of damage for the retina. A more serious laser
threat is flying near outdoor laser light displays!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Costello <bcos(at)ix10.ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | A plea to RV-listers |
I want to keep this brief and add my plea to Matt's RV-list guidelines.
If you are contemplating sending a message to the list please ask
yourself:
1. Is this message related to RV building or flying? It should be.
2. Is this message a flame, a response to an individual, a commentary
that adds no new information, or irrelevant to building/flying RVs?
It shouldn't be.
Please remember that if something goes to the list as chatter, it comes
out as 800 pieces of chatter. If we don't police ourselves, despite
Matt's significant and very time-consuming efforts, this list will
self-destruct and we will lose all its outstanding benefits.
Thanks to all of you. If any of you feel the need to tell me how
stupid or insensitive or misguided I am to send this message, please
do so to me directly at my address below.
Best regards,
Bill Costello
bcos(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Need Advice, has anybody closed the air flow to their oil |
cooler off in the winter ?
My oil cooler is mounted on the firewall of my RV6A, and the cooling air is
supplied via a 3 inch scat hose that is connected to my right engine baffle
with has a 3 inch hole in it. My oil temperatures when its freezing or
below is running less than lycomings recommended minimum of 160 degrees.
I was thinking making an aluminum cover to go over the 3 inch hole for
winter flying. However, the talk about vernatherms a few months back make me
wonder if it will do any good. Am I right in assuming that the vernatherm
won't let oil go to the oil cooler if the engine is to cold anyway ? So
does that mean the aluminum cover won't do any good in bringing oil
temperatures up.
Has anybody found a good way to bring their engine oil temperatures up in
the winter time ( without flying to Florida .... hehehehe) ?
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com from chicago, the very cold, very windy city
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Rob,
It seems as though you're saying that you must have a coupler for any
installation of the Navaid Autopilot. According to the literature from Naviad
Devices, Inc., the only reason you need a coupler is for using a hand-held GPS
that outputs digital information instead of the analog error signal used by
the Navaid autopilot. So, if you're going to use a panel-mounted GPS (which
already puts out the correct signal) you don't need to spend the extra money
for a coupler.
I believe what Will was saying is that he would need a coupler for any
installation method he uses for the Skymap II. Also, that he would have the
optional Porcine coupler internally installed in the AP-1 gyro/computer of the
Navaid autopilot as original equipment, instead of a panel mounted coupler.
Correct me if I'm wrong about the above info. Thanks.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
> From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
> I have held off on NavAid sending me the panel mount part until I
> decided which GPS I will use.
Any of the "panel mount part" gps couplers (manufactured by Porcine,
www.porcine.com) will work with the Navaid and any GPS capable of NMEA0183
or standard aviation data formats (i.e. most all of them).
Basically, you can install whichever coupler best suits your needs now, and
it will be okay with any GPS you decide on later.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Hope y'all are having a happy new year!
I am mounting the elevators to the HS and need some input.
The elevator achieves less than half the recommended travel before the
horn hits the lower flange of the HS spar. I have considered one of the
following remedies:
1) Back out the rod-end bearings. I notice that the center bearing bolt
is VERY close to the torque tube and a little space might be a good
thing. The spar to spar distance of the HS and elevator look pretty
good.
2) Cut a relief in the spar flange. Shouldn't be a structural
consideration since we are talking about only the extreme 1/2" of the
inboard end.
3) A combination of #1 and #2.
If I am not making myself clear, you can see a photo of the situation by
clicking the following link:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/elevtr-14.jpg
Whatta ya think? Thanks in advance for your help.
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
I have installed an extra J-channel stiffener in the middle of the belly
to relieve the area of oil-canning that was present while skinning the
aft fuselage. This j-channel is not attached to the bulkheads, and came
as a RECOMMENDATION from Van's (Ken Scott.) I imagine many builders
have done this, and am wondering if my airplane is going to be
susceptible to the same cracking problems. Would this problem be more
likely to occur on airplanes which encounter a little more abuse than
average, such as landing on rough grass strips all the time?
Thanks,
Bob Japundza
Integrated Information Services, LLC
bjapundza@iis-intellect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Fuse skin cracks |
Could the person who originally sent the post (sorry I've lost your name)
regarding the lower aft skin cracks due to additional stiffeners being
added kindly post a message with more detail? For example, were the
stiffeners J-channel, were they fore and aft, were both ends tied to the
bulkheads or were they added after skinning was complete?
Thanks in advance.
Alex Peterson 6A slider canopy frame
Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel selector in wing root |
| From: | Stig Holm <stig.holm(at)klippan.mail.telia.com> |
I have an idea of installing the fuel selector in the left wing root la
Cherokee. Reason is that I will build a center console for installing a
salvaged Cherokee throttle quadrant and the self-locking trim handle sold by
Aircraft Spruce. The layout I have made feels good but requires the fuel
selector to be replaced. The more I think of it, the better I like the idea
because it also removes all couplings out of the cabin, reducing the risk of
inboard fuel leaks. The right wing fuel line will only pass right through. I
am also thinking of installing the electric boost pump there, downstream
from the selector valve. I have however not intended to locate the
gascolator there.
OK, guys. I would appreciate some brainstorming now. Pros and coins?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Need Advice, has anybody closed the air flow to their |
oil cooler off in the winter ?
It does help some to close off the air because the vernatherm lets some oil
circulate through the cooler all the time. This has been discussed here in
depth many times, so the archives should have a lot of details. It worked on
my first -6A, but I didn't know why.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
My oil cooler is mounted on the firewall of my RV6A, and the cooling air is
supplied via a 3 inch scat hose that is connected to my right engine baffle
with has a 3 inch hole in it. My oil temperatures when its freezing or
below is running less than lycomings recommended minimum of 160 degrees.
I was thinking making an aluminum cover to go over the 3 inch hole for
winter flying. However, the talk about vernatherms a few months back make me
wonder if it will do any good. Am I right in assuming that the vernatherm
won't let oil go to the oil cooler if the engine is to cold anyway ? So
does that mean the aluminum cover won't do any good in bringing oil
temperatures up.
Has anybody found a good way to bring their engine oil temperatures up in
the winter time ( without flying to Florida .... hehehehe) ?
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com from chicago, the very cold, very windy city
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <airshows1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Control/Throttle Quadrant |
1. Anyone had any experience with the aftermarket trim control wheel
kit? This can be mounted vertically or horizontally.
2. Anyone aware of a source for a throttle -prop-mixture control
quadrant?
3. I am building right-hand drive version (to permit right hand on
stick, left on radios and throttle as per my military experience) and my
last airplane was a right-hand drive Siai Marchetti SF.260. It had a
quadrant centered low on instrument panel and was extremely comfortable to
fly.
4. Thanks.
Bill Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
In a message dated 1/1/98 12:09:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, razer(at)midwest.net
writes:
> I acquired a couple sheets of adhesive backed transparent mylar and used
> wordperfect to create all my placards and labels.
Is this something one can get at Staples or some other office supply store ?
Mark McGee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
Listers--
When I inventoried my empennage parts, I noticed a light coat of oil on
all the steel parts. When time came to assemble those parts, I cleaned
the oil film off and primed them.
However, now that I'm on my wings, I got to the part where I'm ready for
the steel aileron and flap attach brackets, and noticed, much to my
dismay, a pretty solid coat of rust on the brackets!! There was little
or no oil on the surfaces. Consequently, I just spent the last chunk of
time removing the rust and prepping the pieces for priming.
So, take note new builders:
As you inventory your kits, set the steel parts aside and prime them
IMMEDIATELY to save yourself some mess and aggravation later!
When my fuse kit arrives ("Oh, it was shipped today"), I'll be doing the
same. Hope that saves someone some time.
--Don McNamara
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re Master solenoid |
>I'm just now wondering about the possibility of a simple automotive type
battery
>master switch - the kind that attach to the battery and are hand operated.
>Since the battery is so close etc.
>
>I hear what Electric Bob says about arcing but when master is switched isn't
>nearly all power off anyway?
>
>This way would:
>
>1 Save weight
>2 Save money
>3 Reduce complexity
>
>What would be the downside of it??
You need to make it a checklist item that the
battery is on first and alternator off first
so that the alternator is not left on with battery
off (with DC power master switch, battery and
alternator go on and off together).
Installation time is probably longer . . . you need
to build a bracket to hold switch in position reachable
by pilot.
Don't know about cost . . . you need an alternator switch
anyhow . . . making it a double pole switch increases costs
about $2.50. Battery master contactor from ACS is about $15.00.
Is building and installing a bracket plus the cost of
a manual switch more than $17.50 worth?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
>I have tested using individual ruboff letters from Geographics Products but
>this is very difficult to keep aligned and they don't adhere well to the
>glossy paint that I plan to use on the panel. A base coat / clear coat
>method may be required. An approach where I could make the labels on a laser
>or ink jet printer and transfer them to the panel would be nice.
>
1. All of my panel placards were printed with a laser printer on Avery
Clear Laser Labels. The panel is painted a very light gray and the
lettering is black. The labels are very thin and go on like a piece of
"invisible" tape. You don't see the label, just the lettering (unless you
get the light just right). It looks like it is printed right on the panel.
I am very pleased with the results. With a half-way decent word processer,
you can get the exact font you want at the exact size you want. If you have
a row of switches to label, you can set your tab or table spacing exactly
the same as your switch spacing and print a strip of labels for several
switches. You can use the same style for all of your placards. I used
these labels for the "PASSENGER WARNING" placard, for an airspeed placard
(Vx, Vy, Vne, etc.), for a placard which shows engine limits (max CHT, max
Oil temp., etc.), and for a compass correction card. In addition to being
inexpensive and flexible, it is very easy to make changes to your placards.
Just peal off the old label, clean any residual adhesive off with
turpentine, and stick down a new label.
The one concern I had with these labels was durablility. I finally decided
that if they didn't hold up, I could always do something else. The jury is
still out on that issue. The labels still look great after eight months of
flying. Of that 8 months, probably 4 or 5 weeks were spent outside of the
hanger. I purchased aluminum "No Step" placards for my flaps, but I didn't
install them because I thought that they looked tacky. Instead I printed up
some nice "No Step" labels on my printer and stuck them on the flaps. These
labels also still look good. If they start looking ratty after a few years,
I will probably just peel them off and stick on some new ones.
2. I would recommend against painting your panel with glossy paint
because you will get too much reflection on sunny days. I suggest that you
use a flat paint instead. I used the same paint for my panel that I used
for most of the exterior, but I added a "flattening" agent. It gave the
panel a nice matt finish. Talk to your paint dealer.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6, flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Solana" <solanas(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
This is typical. The standard approach is to remove some of the spar flange
(your choice number 2).
>I am mounting the elevators to the HS and need some input.
>
>The elevator achieves less than half the recommended travel before the
>horn hits the lower flange of the HS spar. I have considered one of the
>following remedies:
>
>1) Back out the rod-end bearings. I notice that the center bearing bolt
>is VERY close to the torque tube and a little space might be a good
>thing. The spar to spar distance of the HS and elevator look pretty
>good.
>2) Cut a relief in the spar flange. Shouldn't be a structural
>consideration since we are talking about only the extreme 1/2" of the
>inboard end.
>3) A combination of #1 and #2.
>>Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Sam, I had to relieve the spar flange and the 3/4" X 3/4" angle at the top of
the rear bulkhead to achieve the minimal elevator travel on my first -6A. Not
a problem. I don't think I would consider changing the elevator position by
backing out the rod ends as you would also have to shim out the center bearing
to achieve a change in rearward horn location. Then the up position would be
conversely affected. Try the relief method first a little at a time as it
doesn't take much removal to make a large change in position due to the short
arm of the horn. Also, do both elevators at the same time because the horns
may not be even. Do this after you have drilled the horns while aligning the
tips with the HS and then bolting them together with a spacer block to keep
them in line while fitting. Good luck!
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
The elevator achieves less than half the recommended travel before the
horn hits the lower flange of the HS spar. I have considered one of the
following remedies:
1) Back out the rod-end bearings. I notice that the center bearing bolt
is VERY close to the torque tube and a little space might be a good
thing. The spar to spar distance of the HS and elevator look pretty
good.
2) Cut a relief in the spar flange. Shouldn't be a structural
consideration since we are talking about only the extreme 1/2" of the
inboard end.
3) A combination of #1 and #2.
Whatta ya think? Thanks in advance for your help.
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Lets see, Delta Don wrote:
When you get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
on all Rv's of that type.
Then he wrote:
Besides I don't make comments that aren't fact.
Is it just me, or is there a basic incongruity lurking here?
Joel Harding ab320flyer(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
In a message dated 1/1/98 4:32:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, sbuc(at)traveller.com
writes:
> 2) Cut a relief in the spar flange. Shouldn't be a structural
> consideration since we are talking about only the extreme 1/2" of the
> inboard end.
Sam,
I found I had to cut into the spar flange to achieve the required travel. I
was pleasantly surprised to see the HS skin needed no trimming as the elevator
started rubbing uniformly near the limit of travel. I used my Dremel tool
with a rotary file to make a nice recess in the spar flange. Just beware of
the spar stiffeners, obviously. I figure there is no structural impact since
you are cutting inboard of the attach points anyway and there are the
stiffeners to carry the load. Plus the fact that I read that this was the
correct way to do it.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Dick;
Thanks for the encouraging words. I just started inventorying the tail kit
today. I've got to make a list of needed tools pretty soon and get them
ordered. I haven't decided if I want the standard kit or quick build, but
I have awhile to make up my mind. I presume you know that there is a gear
modification still in the works; involves beefing up the fuselage structure
where the gear attaches. They had it incorporated in their first QB kit I
saw at the factory, but the salesman said they still need to make one more
change. I'll keep in mind your fuel sender. I know that's the kind we use
on the big Boeing jets. I'm not
sure how many bells and whistles I will want, but I do know I want it fully
IFR. I'm thinking of just installing an 0-360. That will still have me
going twice as fast as I do now in the Kitfox. One question, and I know
this has been asked many times before, are you priming the interior of your
structure and if so what are you using? They are using a self etching wash
primer on the QB, but I know that is not a real good primer.
Mike Robbins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
>I am ready to label my instrument panel's switches and breakers and would
>appreciate suggestions.
I taught myself silkscreening for this task and found it to be not too
difficult.
I went down to the local art supply store and bought a beginner's
silkscreening kit by Hunt-Speedball. I spent a couple of evenings
practicing and got proficient enough to proceed with the real thing.
Overview of the silkscreening process:
======================================
The term 'silkscreening' comes from the fact that you are using a piece of
silk stretched in a frame. A light-sensitive emulsion is applied to the
silk. A 'film positive is layed on top of the silk and it is exposed to
light. In other words, if you are silkscreening an instrument panel, the
film positive would have the panel lettering opaque and the rest clear.
When the emulsion/silk is exposed to light, a chemical reaction occurs.
The portion exposed to the light hardens. The remainder is still water (or
solvent)-soluable and can be washed away.
After washing, the unexposed emulsion washes out where the panel lettering
would be. You now have a stencil.
Now you 'simply' squeegee ink through the stencil onto the surface of your
instrument panel.
There were a couple of things sub-optimal about the the Hunt-Speedball kit:
1. The squeegee was designed for silkscreening onto fabric, not onto a hard
surface. (The edge of the squeegee was rounded). I tried using it, and it
would apply too much ink to the surface. I bought another squeegee with a
squared-off edge at a proffessional silkscreening shop.
2. The silkscreen ink was water-based. Ideally, you would want an
epoxy-based or solvent-based ink, but the water-based ink worked just fine.
It was also easy to wipe my mistakes off the surface.
Making the film positive:
The important thing about the film positive is that the non-clear portions
(the instrument panel labels) must be ABSOLUTELY opaque. You can make the
film positive several ways:
1. If you have something that looks right but is not opaque (something that
you printed on a laser printer, for example) you can take it to a photo
shop who will make a film positive for you for a few dollars. (About $7, as
I recall)
2. Rub-on letters on clear acetate.
3. I was successfull using my HP inkjet printer.
I gave a demonstration at a meeting of my local EAA chapter, bringing along
the sub-panel from my airplane, and everyone was rather impressed.
I hope this gives you enough information to get started. if not, I'll be
happy to answer any other questions you may have.
Best Regards,
dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Down to the last 10%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
AB320FLYER(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Lets see, Delta Don wrote:
>
Be the tone of this intro, I take it you don't care for Delta pilots.
> When you get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
> on all Rv's of that type.
>
I already admited that I was wrong and thanked everyone for pointing it
out.
> Then he wrote:
>
> Besides I don't make comments that aren't fact.
I don't!! This info was given to me and I believed it true.
Are you suggesting that I'm a "Liar"?
>
> Is it just me, or is there a basic incongruity lurking here?
>
> Joel Harding ab320flyer(at)aol.com
I could stoop to your level and say what do you expect from a Northwest
Pilot. (I assume you are be the equipment you fly)But I wont.
Don Champagne Mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
>I have tested using individual ruboff letters from Geographics Products but
>this is very difficult to keep aligned and they don't adhere well to the
>glossy paint that I plan to use on the panel. A base coat / clear coat
>method may be required. An approach where I could make the labels on a laser
>or ink jet printer and transfer them to the panel would be nice.
>
1. All of my panel placards were printed with a laser printer on Avery
Clear Laser Labels. The panel is painted a very light gray and the
lettering is black. The labels are very thin and go on like a piece of
"invisible" tape. You don't see the label, just the lettering (unless you
get the light just right). It looks like it is printed right on the panel.
I am very pleased with the results. With a half-way decent word processer,
you can get the exact font you want at the exact size you want. If you have
a row of switches to label, you can set your tab or table spacing exactly
the same as your switch spacing and print a strip of labels for several
switches. You can use the same style for all of your placards. I used
these labels for the "PASSENGER WARNING" placard, for an airspeed placard
(Vx, Vy, Vne, etc.), for a placard which shows engine limits (max CHT, max
Oil temp., etc.), and for a compass correction card. In addition to being
inexpensive and flexible, it is very easy to make changes to your placards.
Just peal off the old label, clean any residual adhesive off with
turpentine, and stick down a new label.
The one concern I had with these labels was durablility. I finally decided
that if they didn't hold up, I could always do something else. The jury is
still out on that issue. The labels still look great after eight months of
flying. Of that 8 months, probably 4 or 5 weeks were spent outside of the
hanger. I purchased aluminum "No Step" placards for my flaps, but I didn't
install them because I thought that they looked tacky. Instead I printed up
some nice "No Step" labels on my printer and stuck them on the flaps. These
labels also still look good. If they start looking ratty after a few years,
I will probably just peel them off and stick on some new ones.
2. I would recommend against painting your panel with glossy paint
because you will get too much reflection on sunny days. I suggest that you
use a flat paint instead. I used the same paint for my panel that I used
for most of the exterior, but I added a "flattening" agent. It gave the
panel a nice matt finish. Talk to your paint dealer.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6, flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
| From: | daviddla(at)juno.com (Blah ba Blah) |
Sam, you will trim as necessary for the correct travel when the tail is
fitted to the fuseage. for now just make sure you have the correct
bearing spacing as shown on the plans. David Ahrens, RV-6A wing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
>
> >My advisor, the leading RV guru in the western world, told me to install an
> >adjustable door on the rear face of my oil cooler in the first place but I
> >haven't yet. This may be the only way. He's been right on everything else.
> >
> >D Walsh
>
> I put a cockpit controlable door over my oil cooler which is mounted on
> the left, front horizontal baffle. Below 32 degrees F., I have this door
> completely closed and have a hard time getting my oil temp over around 160
> degrees.
> I put "air dams" in front of cylinders #1 & 2 to raise cylinder head temps
> in cool weather but this didn't help the low oil temp problem. My next
> solution was to block about 1/3 of the inlet on both sides with duct tape.
> This helped raise my oil temps and cylinder head temps. I had to climb out
> at a shallower angle to avoid exceeding max. cylinder head temps but at
> cruise the temps were in line and oil temps were a little higher.
> I've thought about different ways to close up the inlets a bit for cold
> weather operations that would be cosmetically superior to the duct tape but
> haven't gotten very far with that project. Below 9 degrees F. the cockpi
> gets a little cool. I have twin, Robbins muffs connected in series on
> Larry's S.S. crossover system. Engine is a 150 hp.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 385 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
Bob,
I thought about this problem when mouting my oil cooler and I try
this approach. I took the 3in. oil cooler that fits on top of the cooler
and installed a butterfly valve in the opening. Designed like that in a
carburator.My thought here was if I can keep the cold air from entering
the oil cooler by the inlet maybe that may make a difference.I ahve no
data yet as to if it will work but will shortly. I live the Northeast and
its cold here.
Don Champagne RV6QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS for pitch and bank? |
Your absolute position wouldn't matter a bit for this purpose as both
receivers receives the same error, which cancels out. You're only
interested in the *difference* between the two receivers.
The only question is: is the position resolution output from the GPS
receivers fine enough for this purpose? 1 degree = 60 nm, 1 minute ~
6327 feet, 1 second ~ 105 feet, 0.01 second ~ = 1 foot, which from
wingtip to wingtip (~20 feet), and 1 second readout intevals should
work. Actually you'll probably have to have a 2 - 3 second delay to
average the results unless you can synchronize the two GPSes to output
their signals simultaneously.
Someone with two idential GPSes should try this out by mounting the
antennas in each wingtip.
Finn
Keith Proctor wrote:
>
>
> When GPS first came out, and we were told that the Gov't degraded the
> signal, but that differential signals could position you within about 4 mm,
> a friend of mine and I discussed this very type of attitude indicator. Even
> with the low cost of the receivers, I don't think it is cheaper than buying
> an extra (or two) electric attitude indicator, even if you built all the
> circuitry and programming yourself.
>
> Perhaps soon, though...
>
> K
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > Has anyone used the gps system for a pitch or a turn indicator? It would
> > seem
> > that the gps recievers are cheap enough that one could put one in each
> > wing
> > tip, nose and tail and use the diferential signal readout to indicate turn
> > and
> > pitch.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system |
| From: | tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com (John T. Craig-Stearman) |
Pat,
I'm probably answering an old post, as I have been off-list for a while.
I sent Everett Hatch a new 0-360A1A on which to work his magic. He
tested it on his dyno in stock configuration with: 2" stub exhaust
stacks, Vetterman straight pipes, and Vetterman crossover pipes. All
tests were done on the same dyno with the same engine with roughly the
same atmospheric conditions, so the comparison is valid regardless of the
calibration of his dyno. The results (corrected to sea-level standard
day) follow. With 2" stub exhausts: 179 hp. With Vetterman straight
pipes: 185 hp. With Vetterman crossover pipes: 185 hp. He said any
difference between the crossover and the straight pipes was
insignificant.
Incidentally, after Everett worked his magic, which did NOT include
increasing the compression, the same engine ran at just under 200 hp with
both the straight pipes and the crossover pipes.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)juno.com
> Does anyone have an opinion on which is the better Vetterman
>exhaust, the 4
>pipe, or the crossover? I will be installing it on a -4.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt G. Dralle 510-606-1001" <dralle> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
> . I took the 3in. oil cooler that fits on top of the cooler
> and installed a butterfly valve in the opening. Designed like that in a
> carburator.My thought here was if I can keep the cold air from entering
> the oil cooler by the inlet maybe that may make a difference
Why not make it easy on yourself and use the system Van engineered and sells
in the accessories catalog: the cooler mounts to the firewall, 3" SCAT tubing
carries cooling air from the rear baffling, and an adjustable hinged door
operated by a bowden cable opens on the outlet side (bottom) of the cooler to
regulate air flow and hence oil cooling. Mine's not flying yet but is all
plumbed up and looks sound.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Thread engagement specs |
Well, thanks for all the replies to my query and the concern for my safety.
The "witness hole" is great for female threaded rod ends, but these are male
and the rod end is a custom machined aluminum cone that has 5/8 in of tapped
threads but no witness hole...
I dug deep and found the box with the Bingelis books packed inside and here's
what he says: aim for 3/8 to 1/2 inch of thread engagement. So I hedged just
a bit and locked them in at 7/16's. This puts the bellcranks at just an
eighth or less off of the neutral position called out in the plans. I know
this will change the differential aileron geometry slightly and may give more
(or less) adverse yaw as a result, but my guess is the effect will be
negligible. The bellcrank is far from any over-center position and the
controls feel silky-smooth. As for the thread strength, my intuition is that
3/8 inch of threads engaged on a 5/16 diameter bolt will withstand an air load
that would crush the ailerons themselves, so I'm simply not going to worry
about it :-)
If I begin to have bad dreams about this, I'll get the over-length rod ends as
used on the rudder, as someone pointed out.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: List Status... |
Matt Dralle wrote:
> From: Matt Dralle 510-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: List Status...
> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 10:54 PM
>
> I will be keeping a close eye on the List operation over the next few
days
> and will be removing addresses that have any kind of problems as well as
> working on a higher performance solution.
>
> Thanks for understanding...
>
> Matt Dralle
> RV and Zenith List Admin.
> Matronics
----------
Matt,
I am a relative newcomer to the list and I am wondering if you have be
sending out any list material during the past few days since this problem
arose. I have not received much (3 or 4 messages) in the last 3 days. I
think I am still on the list or I would not have gotten the above message
from you. I hate to bother you but I do enjoy the list.
Thanks
Jerry Isler
RV4 #1070
Donalsonville, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Vertical Card Compasses |
For you pilots out there who have vertical card compasses, what are your
thoughts on them? I was thinking of using one to replace my old
compass, and instead of adding a d.g., but the salesman told me it
wouldn't work good enough to replace a d.g. I need to know so I can
order whatever I decide on. Thanks, alot. Michael Lott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Adobe Acrobat URL |
> Rod,
> Thanks for the link to the subject library on the RV_List recently.
> I downloaded AC90-89a but not having Adobe Acrobat Viewer I can't read it.
>
> Please RSVP with the internet URL for the Acrobat Viewer directly to my
> email address or post on the RV_List.
> Thanks,
>
> Bob Owens (Rcowens126(at)aol.com)
> (helping son skin his RV-6 fuselage in jig)
> Retired aircraft design engr, FAA DER, A&P etc, etc
Hi Bob and other listers,
Sorry about that... I should have included this in my original post. Here is
the URL for downloading Adobe Acrobat Viewer. The viewer is free. It comes in
handy for viewing forms and other information you can download on the web.
It'll take a while to download, so fix a cup of coffee before you start the
process.
http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
Concerning the Brother Label Maker labels for the panel, Brother also
offers a tape that, when printed, prints the letters on the back of the
tape which can then be placed on the panel and rubbed off, leaving the
lettering only. I only have a roll in black lettering, so I don't know if
other colors of letters are available. I figured I would try it on some
scrap aluminum before proceeding, but it sure seems easy. The letters can
be printed on my label printer in several sizes, fonts and multiple lines.
I bought the latest printer at office depot for about $50.
Charles Golden
N609CG
Chevy Powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel selector in wing root |
| From: | Stig Holm <stig.holm(at)klippan.mail.telia.com> |
I have an idea of installing the fuel selector in the left wing root la
Cherokee. Reason is that I will build a center console for installing a
salvaged Cherokee throttle quadrant and the self-locking trim handle sold by
Aircraft Spruce. The layout I have made feels good but requires the fuel
selector to be relocated. The more I think of it, the better I like the idea
because it also removes all couplings out of the cabin, reducing the risk of
inboard fuel leaks. The right wing fuel line will only pass right through. I
am also thinking of installing the electric boost pump there, downstream
from the selector valve. I have however not intended to locate the
gascolator there.
OK, guys. I would appreciate some brainstorming now. Pros and coins?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
John Darby wrote:
What was the name of his horse??
I answered this once, but it didn't go through.
Red's horse was namde Thunder. LB's was Papoose.
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
I do not intend to install a gascolator in the RV-6.
How could I install a primer?
Where would I connect to the fuel line?
Could one use pressure from the fuel pump to "squirt" fuel directly into
the engine?
How?
Thanks,
robert.cabe(at)usaa.com
---
"The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's
and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
>
>When you get a Repairmans Certificate your the A&P
>on all Rv's of that type.
>
>Good Luck.
>
>Don
>Mont Vernon,NH
>
Don:
You are confidently wrong. Here's the reg:
Sec. 65.104 Repairman certificate--experimental aircraft builder--
Eligibility, privileges and limitations.
(a) To be eligible for a repairman certificate (experimental aircraft
builder), an individual must-- (1) Be at least 18 years of age;
(2) Be the primary builder of the aircraft to which the privileges of
the
certificate are applicable;
(3) Show to the satisfaction of the Administrator that the individual
has
the requisite skill to determine whether the aircraft is in a condition
for
safe operations; and
(4) Be a citizen of the United States or an individual citizen of a
foreign
country who has lawfully been admitted for permanent residence in the
United
States.
(b) The holder of a repairman certificate (experimental aircraft
builder)
may perform condition inspections on the aircraft constructed by the
holder
in accordace with the operating limitations of that aircraft.
(c) Section 65.103 does not apply to the holder of a repairman
certificate
(experimental aircraft builder) while performing under that certificate.
[Amdt. 65-24, 44 FR 46781, Aug. 9, 1979]
Note that YOU must be the PRIMARY BUILDER of THE aircraft to which the
certificate is applicable. In section b) it states you can perform the
condition inspections "the aircraft constructed by the holder..." If you
didn't build it, an A&P has to inspect it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JVanLaak <JVanLaak(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | GPS for attitude |
I did not read the early postings on this topic, but a couple of experimental
sattelites have tried it and the International Space Station is using
differential GPS for attitude determination, and its requirements for pointing
antennas and such are very fine relative to what is needed to just fly a
plane. The theory is sound, but the software to display the differential as
information you can use is not available to my knowledge. Also, you would
have to be concerned about multipath and other subtle effects with antenna
placement.
This is a technology with great potential for the future, and some talented
entrepreneur will no doubt make a splash with it soon enough. It is right up
the alley for a homebuilt plane. Still, even when the technology permits this
as the primary attitude reference, I would keep a gyro for backup in all
circumstances.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lauritsen" <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Clecoe Maintenance and oiling |
----------
> From: Stig Holm <stig.holm(at)klippan.mail.telia.com>
> They look the same, are even
> marked "CLEKOLOC". The only visual difference is that the top is more
> "shiny" compared to the greyish color of the old ones. Problem is that
they
> are some 1/1000ths narrower and tends to slip out of dimpled holes in
thin
> skin(drilled to #41). They also corrodes faster and have less clamping
> force. Has anyone else had the same experience?
I noticed this problem about a year or so ago. The Cleko-Loc trademark is
made by California Associated Products who is owned by US Industrial Tool (
to my knowledge ). The quality of these clekos has dropped severly in the
last couple of years and caused me to switch to "Wedge-Loc" clekos made by
Monogram Aerospace. I have found that they are head over heals better
quality; they feel smoother, the parts all stay in line with each other,
they fit the hole, and the overall appearance is better. Not all clekos
are alike.
Mike Lauritsen
clevtool(at)tdsi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thread engagement specs |
I am curious about the peep hole in female thread rod ends. It would
appear that the peep hole in the rod end is nowhere close to being halfway
down the threads. Am I right in understanding that the reason for the peep
hole is only to confirm pullout strength of the assembly? Another failure
mode is when the jam nuts on both ends of the pushrod come loose, and the
pushrod rotates toward one end far enough for the threads to come
completely out of the other rod end. Threading in only to the peep hole
will not prevent this, unless the nuts used to jam it are unusually thick
ones (limiting travel of the male threads). A&P's??
Alex Peterson
6A canopy Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Wilcox <rwilcox(at)qnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
Mark:
Would you please post the Avery Label Number for those labels. They sound
excellent.
Ron
>
>1. All of my panel placards were printed with a laser printer on Avery
>Clear Laser Labels.
>Mark Nielsen
>RV-6, flying.
Ron Wilcox
4th in my office building RV-6
N826LR (Reserved) empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Master switch/solenoid |
While following the thread on master solenoids I noticed a mention of using
SCR's as one possible alternative to mechanical solenoids. As an EE I just
sat back and waited for that one to be shot down because you can't turn
them off unless the current goes to zero first. Very difficult in DC
system!
What wasn't mentioned was power MOSFETs. These devices are a type of
transistor which for all
purposes operates as a voltage varialble resistor. Current technology
parts have on resistances in the
single digit milliohms and are easy to parallel. The nice part is that for
DC operation they draw virtually zero control power. The idea of pulling
more than 1.0 Amp from the battery just to turn on power to the rest of the
plane, which is apparently the case with the standard contactors seems a
bit wasteful.
Commercially available solid state relays use these devices along with
optically isolated control inputs.
The only disadvantage is cost as I believe these units start at about
$50.00 for the smallest units. Something capable of supplying an entire
aircraft, even of our size would be higher still.
I could certainly come up with a simple schematic if anyone is interested
in giving this a try. Otherwise
I'll wait until I get to that stage
Dave Lundquist
RV-6, Rudder
Comments?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVator <RVator(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice, has anybody closed the air flow to their oil |
cooler...
Scott;
On my 0-320 D3G powered RV-4, I attached a tin can lid to the rear engine
baffling, covering the scat inlet to my oil cooler. I also place duct tape
over the bottom of the oil cooler. Tape is good for an additional 5 degrees
or so.
Here in Wisconsin both the above allow 180 degree temps at 2500 rpm. Work
the engine below that and temps fall some.
I can hold 180 till 20 degree ambient or so. Don't usually fly much below
that anyway.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
>I have tested using individual ruboff letters from Geographics Products but
>this is very difficult to keep aligned and they don't adhere well to the
>glossy paint that I plan to use on the panel. A base coat / clear coat
>method may be required. An approach where I could make the labels on a laser
>or ink jet printer and transfer them to the panel would be nice.
>
1. All of my panel placards were printed with a laser printer on Avery
Clear Laser Labels. The panel is painted a very light gray and the
lettering is black. The labels are very thin and go on like a piece of
"invisible" tape. You don't see the label, just the lettering (unless you
get the light just right). It looks like it is printed right on the panel.
I am very pleased with the results. With a half-way decent word processer,
you can get the exact font you want at the exact size you want. If you have
a row of switches to label, you can set your tab or table spacing exactly
the same as your switch spacing and print a strip of labels for several
switches. You can use the same style for all of your placards. I used
these labels for the "PASSENGER WARNING" placard, for an airspeed placard
(Vx, Vy, Vne, etc.), for a placard which shows engine limits (max CHT, max
Oil temp., etc.), and for a compass correction card. In addition to being
inexpensive and flexible, it is very easy to make changes to your placards.
Just peal off the old label, clean any residual adhesive off with
turpentine, and stick down a new label.
The one concern I had with these labels was durablility. I finally decided
that if they didn't hold up, I could always do something else. The jury is
still out on that issue. The labels still look great after eight months of
flying. Of that 8 months, probably 4 or 5 weeks were spent outside of the
hanger. I purchased aluminum "No Step" placards for my flaps, but I didn't
install them because I thought that they looked tacky. Instead I printed up
some nice "No Step" labels on my printer and stuck them on the flaps. These
labels also still look good. If they start looking ratty after a few years,
I will probably just peel them off and stick on some new ones.
2. I would recommend against painting your panel with glossy paint
because you will get too much reflection on sunny days. I suggest that you
use a flat paint instead. I used the same paint for my panel that I used
for most of the exterior, but I added a "flattening" agent. It gave the
panel a nice matt finish. Talk to your paint dealer.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6, flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RXDOG1 <RXDOG1(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice, has anybody closed the air flow to their oil |
cooler...
Restricting airflow to the oil cooler sounds riskier to me than a few well
placed strips of duct tape over the cowling cooling openings. Restricting
total airflow or uneven partial airflow could result in hotspots on the
cylinders. I think even spaced blocking of airflow with small 1/2" material of
some kind would work best. Duct tape for the cold days always worked best for
me on those -0 mornings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
> From: les williams <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com>
> Rob,
> It seems as though you're saying that you must have a coupler for any
> installation of the Navaid Autopilot.
Sorry...that's not what I meant to say. You only need it if you want to
track gps with it using NMEA0183 or Aviation data outputs.
> the Navaid autopilot. So, if you're going to use a panel-mounted GPS
(which
> already puts out the correct signal) you don't need to spend the extra
money
> for a coupler.
I'm still researching all this myself, the only panel mount units I have
come across that have the cdi/hsi/autopilot output are TSOC129-A2 approach
certified (except for the SkymapII, in which case you need a $389 adapter).
So, while you would save a couple of hundred $$$ on the coupler, you
would be spending thouands extra on the gps. Please correct me if
I'm wrong, www.porcine.com has the details on both handheld and panel mount
installations.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Electric flap problems |
Listers,
Now that the weather has given me a break and I've finished the
rudder pedal installation, I've gone back to electric flaps to see if your
advice works. I'm happy to say it did. Here's what I did:
I added a 1/16" shim between the front of the channel at the top and
the small angle piece. I added a 1/8" shim between the flange on the
F605 and the small angle piece. These lowered the channel and
moved it back slightly to clear the canopy hold down weldment. I
moved the bottom of the channel forward about 1/2". That cleared
the flap weldment.
Tomorrow, I'll have to figure out how to drill all of the above. The small
angle at the top will still require that I add some meat to the flange on
the F605 so I'll have something to attach the screws to. There just isn't
enough F605 flange to do it. Now that I know what to do, it should go
smoothly.
Thanks for your help!
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (Rudder pedals installed. Working on the flaps.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jharmstrong(at)attmail.com (Jack H Armstrong) |
Phone: 540-338-7715
"unsubscribe" jharmstrong(at)mail.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Plans & new guy's 220hp IO360?? |
Hi All,
Dick Martin wrote:
> I am currently building an RV8 and I am very pleased with both the kit and
> the plans. I will admit that there are a few errors in the plans, however
I think some of us, by saying that plans could be improved, were taken to be
condemning Van's product / company / personna. Nothing could be further from
reality in my case and I suspect most others. I believe that ***EVERY PRODUCER
OF A PRODUCT*** will have to offer better quality of both product and customer
service in the near future or be blown away by competition. This is very well
known among marketing experts and makes very good sense. Try to find a business
to go into where there isn't already heavy competition. So how can a business
get ahead of competitors but do what customers are clamoring for - provide
higher quality, easier use (including documentation & tutorials). Van has
superb products and great customer service. He could be using all the free
input he gets from loyal "troops" to improve his docs which are already some of
the best. Van is not a laggard as shown by recent automation, pre-drilled parts
etc.
As a sheet metal beginner, I have find myself learning a lot very fast. I
haven't cut myself in weeks! Quickbuilders have to get instruction from at
least four sources -
Quickbuild manual
Preview Plans Set
Large Scale Drawings
Orndorff Tapes
When installing the 6112 top fuselage skin, my bulkhead twisted so the rivets
snake along or miss completely. This could have been prevented by some mention
that it might happen and how to prevent it. In fact it is but it is one short
and obscure line I ran across later and I study the docs more than most I
suspect. Had mention been made I would be even more impressed with the
product. Had I know before buying my kit that there are such problems with the
docs I would have bought it anyway. Someone more willing to build with glass
fibers and "liver solvent" might have been swayed to Glasstar or some other.
I always get excited when I talk about business. I just can't understand a
business that is willing to be satisified with a fraction of the market. Why,
I
wonder, not have *ALL* the market and *NO* competitors? That should be the
goal.
Sybase Inc, the company I work for, has the most sophisticated database products
on the market. Their stock, once over $60, fell below $9 this morning. They
didn't make their products better in ways their customer's wanted and it hurt.
Now they find it hard, even with a superior product, to come back. Van has a
great product and I hope it gets even better!
So, Dick, how will you get this 220HP?
> I am using a Lycoming IO360A1B6 hopped up to 220 hp
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- "Peace on earth, good will to all RV builders"
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Solana" <solanas(at)email.msn.com> |
I'm confused! In mounting my Lycoming O-360 to the engine mount, using
Barry Mounts bought from Van's, I'm wondering about how to provide spacing
between the lower engine mount pad and the Barry mount cup to avoid that
little lip next to the lower mount pad on the engine.
Van's instruction manual shows pictures of Lord mounts (but supposedly
applicable to Barry mounts), and says put the fat washer in this place to
provide spacing. Well, the Barry mounts did not come with a fat washer.
On the other hand, there are about 8 large washers that Van's ships with
the engine mounting bolts, and 2 or 3 of these could do the job. I wonder
if that's what they are for?
Any one have any ideas on how to avoid hitting this lip.
Rick Solana, RV-6a
instrument panel in, engine going on!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa <BPattonsoa(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Gettin in a -6 Slider |
My 85 year old father was up this Christmas, and I had him get in the -6A with
a sliding canopy. Roll bar is in, but not forward canopy glass. He is is
reasonably good shape for his age, but he could not get out without using the
rollbar to hoist.
What ideas for hand holds are there for lowering yourself into, or hoisting
yourself out of a -6 with sliding canopy?
I have seen one where a handle is welded onto the SS rollbar brace.
I had an idea to use a removable grab bar. A "U" shaped piece of 1/2" tube
would be inserted thru two holes drilled completely thru the roll bar. The
tube would be tilted up slightly from the horizontal, with about 10" between
the legs. The legs would have washers welded to act as stops. The grab bar
woulld be used in two locations, over the pilot and copilot. It would be
removed by simply sliding it out before closing the canopy.
With a 250 lb load evenly divided between the two legs, and extending 5" from
the rollbar, the stress levels in the grab bar (1/2X.120 4160 tube) are around
55,000 psi. With the load all in one leg, it is over yield. The torsional
loads in the rollbar are reasonably low, around 6000 psi, assuming .048 wall
for the rollbar.
I would be concerned with the holes in the roll bar, but would be willing to
give up some safety for being able to get in easier.
Any Ideas?
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
posted by: "David A. Barnhart"
The post on silscreening is a keeper. Long way to go before I need it but
I made a .TXT file of it.
Thanks Dave:
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: chatter/north vs south |
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe) |
John,
Please don't let the poor behavior of a very small number of list
participants affect your use of the list. I, for one, enjoy the humorous
side of things - it's a nice break that's always welcomed. Someone
recently pointed out that there are a certain number of pilots/builders
who will always be on a mission to show how much more safe, cautious,
knowledgeable, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent they are than the rest
of the unwashed masses. What can you do? I just consider the source and
go on with life, FWIW.
=============================================================================
tons of snipped stuff
> Let me apologize to the list for my improper post.
> Never again shall I attempt humor in a post to the list. I now
>realize that the list is for factual, technical, non-humorist posting by
>responsible people only.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Vertical Card Compass |
I am wanting to get a vertical card compass instead of a regular compass
to replace the regular old compass I have in my panel now. I was
wondering if it could operate well enough to be a good replacement for a
d.g.? I have to order some gyros soon and I have heard some people say
they (vc compass) do a good job, so you don't need a d.g.. The salesman
today told me it would only work good enough to complement a gyro. What
do you guys that have them think of this? The main thing I like about a
d.g. is the help it gives when I am making turns setting up for an
approach to a busy airport. A compass alone is no help at all in a
situation like this, and it doesn't take much to get you confused about
directions. I appreciate all opinions on this. Thanks. Michael Lott
PS: I am still trying to figure out what is causing the noise in my
-4. I have installed some 6 inch exhaust extensions, and check the
cowling thoroughly for things that go bump in the night, to no avail.
The only thing I have noticed is the noise is worse with my headphones
on, than with them off. I will try some noise reduction headsets
tomorrow if it doesn't rain, and week after next I will install my
radio, xponder,encoder, and insulation. I will also be adjusting my
horizontal stabilizer tomorrow. I may have already said this, but, I
now top out at 180-185 at 2650 rpm, and 170 at 2500 rpm, at 1500 feet.
Still 150 hp, and missing gear leg intersection fairings. Averaged with
gps. Still looking for 300 mph. And, like someone else who said theirs
cruises at 235 downhill, mine will too!.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Clecoe Maintenance and oiling |
Speaking of clecoes, while working on the tank skins, I noticed that all #40 clecoes
are not the same. The Kwik-lok brand will grab a larger hole that the Clekolok
brand. Once a hole is dimpled, it is slightly enlarged and the clekolok's
won't hold the most stressed holes. I will ask which brand I'm buying from
now on.
Brian Eckstein
Tank Baffle plates tommorrow !
----------
>
> My clecoes are not as easy to squeeze open and also do not grip as well
> after 2.5 years of use. They would work better if the moving parts were
> lubbed with oil. Has anyone come up with a way to oil a large number of
> them efficiently without creating a mess?
>
> Other maintenance items for clecoes?
>
>
> Bob Haan
> bobh(at)cdac.com
> Portland, OR
> 503-579-2729
> RV6A 24461 Fuse out of jig, working on forward deck
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tank mount bracket rivets |
Fred,
To measure the proseal, I built a simple 10:1 scale out of wood. The beam is about
.75 x .75 x 25 inches. Hooks are attached on the underside to hold the plates
and on the top to hand the scale. It is admittedly hunky, yet very accurate.
I hung a thick paper plate from the long end and a wood platform from the
short end and kept cutting the wood until it balanced. On the beam is mounted
a small line level with two sided tape. I was surprised that it is accurate
enough to level out when tested with 1 #10 washer on one side and 10 on the
other, 9 or 11 and it's not level, certainly accurate enough for this job. Also,
I found a cheap dieter's scale for $1 which gives an idea of how much of
the white stuff I'm using.
----------
>
>
> Brian,
>
> I'd be interested in how you're measuring the Pro-Seal. I'm in the
> process of building a small balance beam scale (from model airplane
> plywood). On my first RV, I just eyeballed it. No problems to date (1025
> Hrs in four + years), but would like to do a better job this time........
>
> Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
> wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
>
> writes:
> >
> >I'm deep into the process of sealing the tanks on my 6A over the
> >holidays and it's really going very well. I'm doing the whole thing
> >by myself and haven't run into too many hard reaches. For those who
> >haven't done this yet, concerns are definitely overblown. I do have a
> >question for those further along though. Is there any reason why the
> >426-4 rivets specified in the plans are needed to secure the tank
> >mounting bracket or will 470-4's do? Countersinking those brackets
> >seems a waste of time.
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >
> >Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rusting Steel |
>
>So, take note new builders:
>
>As you inventory your kits, set the steel parts aside and prime them
>IMMEDIATELY to save yourself some mess and aggravation later!
>
>When my fuse kit arrives ("Oh, it was shipped today"), I'll be doing
the
>same. Hope that saves someone some time.
>
>--Don McNamara
> RV-8
You betcha!! Same thing happened to me with the elevator horns...started
rusting along the weldments. So..I immediately scrubbed them clean and
primered with several coats. If it's steel..primer it NOW!
Good advice, Don...wish I would have thought to mention it here sooner.
Brian Denk
-8 #379 wings
got my Dad deburring parts! And he thought the nightmare was over after
I moved out....HAH!!!
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Alternate vacuum |
Last week, I picked up an electric vacuum pump from my Chevy dealer to try
out on some instruments. The pump weighed 3 lbs. and was off a late model
Caddy. It is obviously 12 volt DC. Price was listed at $126, I believe.
I only borrowed it to try out and take back. The pump had a 3/8" hose
fitting on the work side. I tied it to the vacuum regulator and then to 1
instrument. Worked very well but the vacuum only showed about 3.5". When
I hooked it up to both instruments, the vacuum dropped to less than 3".
Bypassing the regulator helped. Both instruments were operating, at least
on the ground. I could work both in every direction and they both did what
they should but when I turned the pump off, the gyros were not turning
nearly as fast as with a pump, based on sound only. Also, the horizon
dropped within a few seconds.
My observation is that this likely is not suitable to operate instruments
off of as a primary source, but if you could install one as a backup vacuum
pump, it would likely be very effective. If you could do a little work and
mount it so that if you selected it, you could bypass the installed
regulator, I believe you would have a great source of alternate vacuum at a
very reasonable price.
Regards,
Charles Golden
N609CG
RV-6A
Chevy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
| Subject: | Chevy Vortec Weight |
Being an ex-Loadmaster in the Marines, I am obsessed with keeping up with
weights. While installing my Chevy Vortec and after reading the latest
Kitplanes, I was off to weigh my engine. Unfortunately, most items are
already installed on it, so the weight is a combination of most items.
The engine is a 92 Chevy 4.3 liter with all standard equipment except water
pump and pulleys. I was not aware of the composite valve covers and oil
pans or I would have went that route. The engine weight includes the
starter, alternator, engine mounts (I already had them bolted up), carb,
coils, oil (5 qts), Belted Air PSRU, even sensors......etc. I guess
everything but water and exhaust. Total weight I got was 412 pounds.
Rather than use water as the kitplane article listed, I used weights off
our weight benches, which should be relatively accurate.
Other weights I have to complete the firewall forward installation are:
Radiator and overflow receptacle: 10 lbs
Exhaust manifold, complete (nuts, bolts, etc) 20 lbs
Propeller, Warp Drive 3 bladed complete 10 lbs.
I wish I had weighed each piece of the engine separately (alt, starter,
PSRU, etc), but I hope the supplied information will help. This appears to
be heavy compared to some other examples I have seen, but I have not seen
any done ready for installation or even with oil in already. But I needed
to run the engine for a while on a test stand before hanging it. Also,
apparently, different years of the engine can make a difference in weight,
depending on the counterbalance, etc. Does anyone have any comparisons of
how this compares to a Lyc equivalent, ready to hang including motor
mounts, oil?
I spoke with the gentleman in Texas this week flying his hours off and got
the following information:
Currently 22 hours (bad weather lately)
Still no wheel pants or gap seals
3400 rpm = 19" manifold = 160 MPH IAS
3700 rpm = 20.5" manifold = 180 MPH IAS
Has been to 4000 rpm but did not collect data other than 195 IAS
No known problems other than he has been running rich and adjusted Holley
at 21 hours. Observers were noticing black exhaust at taxi. He has not
seen any since readjusting float level. Changed oil at 21 hours.
Regards,
Charles Golden
N609CG
RV-6A
Chevy powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Prime now or later? Tip |
I don't mean to start another "primer" thread, but while I am waiting on my
RV-8 wing kit, I have thought about going ahead and vari-priming my tailkit.
Is this advisable, or will it get all scratched up during installation later?
One tip I might pass on is that if you paint your plane nearly the same color
as your primer, you save considerable weight, because it will take very little
finish paint to cover. Mine will be creme colored like my primer.
YOUR tips are appreciated!
Von Alexander
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RWilliJill <RWilliJill(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | back issues of The RVator |
Does anyone out there know how one could get back issues of The RVator? I
need the last 2 in 1995 and all issues for 1996 & 1997.
My RV-4 project has been on hold for two years due to a move and having a
house and new workshop built. I would greatly appreciate
any help on this as I need them to find any building print changes that have
accured. I would be glad to pay for the issues if someone
would be willing to part with them. Thanks in advance. RWilliJill(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CarsonHC <CarsonHC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Measuring Pro-Seal |
Don't work with weights-use volumes-see recent issue of EAA's "Experimenter"
for a simple approach .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
A couple nights ago I built my "brake" for finishing my trailing edges and
proceeded to attempt bending my rudder per the instructions. All was going
quite well until my stiffeners contacted each other and no more bending
could occur. Still, when you stood the skin on end, the open end was still
3-4 inches from contacting the spar with one side clecoed on. Pulling it
closed is certainly no problem and the trailing edge doesn't look THAT bad,
but is not in keeping with the ideal edge the instructions speak of. I
checked the skin for straightness between the spar and the trailing edge
with a straight edge and it is as straight as an arrow until appx. the last
3/8" or so before the radius. It then tapers appx. 1/16" down to the
radius. In my opinion, this would be acceptable. What does everyone think?
My largest resource to this point, as far as comparing my work to someone
else's, has been to stop by Van's prototype shop and look around. This puts
doubts in my mind about my work sometimes because with guys like Van and
Scott McDaniels around, all their stuff is about as perfect as it gets.
Next stupid rudder question from a paranoid rookie...
When fitting my R-410 rudder horn brace (was this thing designed by Satan?)
to my R-405PD rudder horn and R-404 bottom rib, all fit quite well except on
the sides where it mates with the rib flange and the skin. My R-410 did not
fit gracefully even after considerable effort and tweaking (and cussing). I
ended up fitting a .032 shim between it and the rib flange on both sides.
This fit quite well, and I was wondering if anyone else had to do this and
if this is acceptable. The length of my rivets will have to increase, of
course, but I don't see any other problems. What do you think?
Happy New Year to all!! May many of you find yourself airborne in a device
of your own making this year!!
Jon Elford
RV 6 #25201
Rudder
PS. Thanks to all who responded to my first stupid rudder question about
the spar/rudder horn/bottom rib conglomeration. All came out good with good
edge distances and the like.
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa <BPattonsoa(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Getting in a -6 Slider |
My 85 year old father was up this Christmas, and I had him get in the -6A with
a sliding canopy. Roll bar is in, but not forward canopy glass. He is is
reasonably good shape for his age, but he could not get out without using the
rollbar to hoist.
What ideas for hand holds are there for lowering yourself into, or hoisting
yourself out of a -6 with sliding canopy?
I have seen one where a handle is welded onto the SS rollbar brace.
I had an idea to use a removable grab bar. A "U" shaped piece of 1/2" tube
would be inserted thru two holes drilled completely thru the roll bar. The
tube would be tilted up slightly from the horizontal, with about 10" between
the legs. The legs would have washers welded to act as stops. The grab bar
woulld be used in two locations, over the pilot and copilot. It would be
removed by simply sliding it out before closing the canopy.
With a 250 lb load evenly divided between the two legs, and extending 5" from
the rollbar, the stress levels in the grab bar (1/2X.120 4160 tube) are around
55,000 psi. With the load all in one leg, it is over yield. The torsional
loads in the rollbar are reasonably low, around 6000 psi, assuming .048 wall
for the rollbar.
I would be concerned with the holes in the roll bar, but would be willing to
give up some safety for being able to get in easier.
Any Ideas?
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
>
>
><< Since we are manufacturers, doesn't the new statute of repose apply to us
> as well as BCPM? Our liability should end 17 (18?) >>
>
> For those of you who cannot sleep at night or are getting ulcers because of
>liability concerns mabe you should find a new hobby and buy a production bird.
>Try building and enjoy flying before you worry about selling. Who knows you
>may end up liking it enough to keep it. Lets not put the cart before the
>horse. If you are building with the intention of selling then you are taking a
>risk and lets face it risk is what life is all about. Every morning when you
>walk out that door you take another chance.
> Ryan Bendure
>
Amen to that, Ryan!!
I'm not writing big checks to Van's, staying up until 1am on a work night
and cutting my fingers on an all-too-regular basis for someone else! I'm a
selfish dog!! I'm doing it so I can fly it and rip around the sky with a
big smile on my face in an airplane that I built. I may sell it some day,
but don't stand in line yet!
Jon Elford
RV 6 #25201
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tip Plugs |
>
>Von
>
>Rather than pine, why not a peice of foam ( lighter than pine ) & fiberglass
>the hole peice in place - West System makes some great fillers etc.
>
>
>Bill
>
I don't think weight is much of an issue here. You're trying to
counterbalance the elevator in this area anyway. I would use whatever makes
a solid, attractive cap and trim the lead away if necessary.
Jon Elford
RV 6 #25201
>
>
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Problems with the RV6 Plans |
I think the RV plans are a nice compromise between step-by-step airplane
assembly and "here are the pieces, figure them out...!" All (or almost all)
of the information is there somewhere, and if it is not, simply call Van's
and talk to Bill, Ken, John or Tom and they will cheerfully guide you
through it. As well as offer pointers regarding that particular phase. All
of them have built their own planes, most before going to work for Van's.
They're not rocket scientists (no offense), with vastly superior intellect,
who will scorn the unlearned. They are, or were, everyday builders like the
rest of us and understand the fear and trepidation associated with standing
there with air drill and cobalt bit poised over a $60 prepunched stiffener
or something you have spent days creating.
All in all, like someone previously mentioned, if they devoted months to
going through and ironing out all of the minor discrepancies I, for one,
would not be able to afford the kits after the prices adjusted to cover the
costs.
Jon Elford
RV 6 #25201
Rudder
Jon Elford
RV 6A #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compasses |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>For you pilots out there who have vertical card compasses, what are
>your thoughts on them? I was thinking of using one to replace my old
>compass, and instead of adding a d.g., but the salesman told me it
>wouldn't work good enough to replace a d.g. I need to know so I can
>order whatever I decide on. Thanks, alot. Michael Lott
Michael, I used one in my 6A and I really like it. I don't plan on
putting in a vacuum system soon, if ever. So I thought the VC would be a
good compromise between a regular compass and a DG. It's a lot easier to
visualize runway directions, wind, etc utilizing a card. I certainly
wouldn't want to use it in place of a DG, as the VC is still subject to
lead/lag, and acceleration errors, but for VFR flight it's well worth the
price.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
or closed. It keeps my temps right at 180, and if I get
surprised by a warm day, I can partially open the cooler door in flight.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV- Expermental A&P |
Question - You build an RV6 and get the Repairmen Certificate or A&P for the
Aircraft you have built, you then purchase an RV6A from another builder, can
you work on your RV6A or do you have to make an application for an additional
certificate. Or does your 6A require & Certified A&P .
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system |
With 2" stub exhausts: 179 hp. With Vetterman straight
>pipes: 185 hp. With Vetterman crossover pipes: 185 hp. He said any
>difference between the crossover and the straight pipes was
>insignificant.
I must have been visiting my engine some time after he did your
engine, as Everett was telling me about the pipes. I asked to see what he
would recommend for my 0-320. I should be getting my engine soon. They had
a couple of engines with the same mounts to test and then they were going to
do mine. Hope my engine does as well in percntage.
Happy building & Merry Flying!
denny-->> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compasses |
I was thinking of using one to replace my old
>compass, and instead of adding a d.g., but the salesman told me it
>wouldn't work good enough to replace a d.g. I need to know so I can
>order whatever I decide on. Thanks, alot. Michael Lott
I had the same thoughts and abandon them. The guys that had
experimented with them in the D.G. location said they had trouble with
devation. Most of them located the vertical compass at the top instrument
panel or on top of the of the glare shield. On fellow has shielded the
compass from the electronic instruments with a sheet medal that I have
forgotten the name of. He is just about ready to fly, so no one knows if he
will win on that installation yet.
Happy building & Merry Flying!
denny-->> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Listers,
perhaps we can do something about this. If anyone would like to send me
infomation on the problems with the plans as mentioned by Bill below, I will
collate them and send them to Vans.
I have a set of RV3, RV4 and RV6(A) small plans that I can check against. No
RV8 plans, but don't let that stop you.
Nothing said, nothing fixed.
I will also publish the results on the list to highlight traps for newer
builders.
Royce (fitting the engine) Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>
>Have you found any instances in your plans where dimensions on one
>drawing are contradicted by dimensions for the same part on another
>drawing? Have you found any instances where the dimensions are simply
>not given? Has it ever taken you more than an hour to find dimensions or
>specifications for a part because the information was located on an
>otherwise somewhat unrelated drawing?
>
>Bruce Stobbe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Clecoe Maintenance and oiling |
<< I noticed this problem about a year or so ago. The Cleko-Loc trademark is
made by California Associated Products who is owned by US Industrial Tool (
to my knowledge ). The quality of these clekos has dropped severly in the
last couple of years and caused me to switch to "Wedge-Loc" clekos made by
Monogram Aerospace. I have found that they are head over heals better
quality; they feel smoother, the parts all stay in line with each other,
they fit the hole, and the overall appearance is better. Not all clekos
are alike.
>>
We bought 400 clecos from Avery last year at Sun-n-Fun.They were kwik-lok
(made in the USA), the 3/32 inch ones have been good as far as smoothness and
general operation. They do not hold two very thin peices together tight. The
1/8 inches ones began to fail to extend the center pin out after about 4
months here in our SE coastal florida envirement and therefore would not hold
tight. We tried to lubricate them with with a dry graphite bike chain
lubricant, but they would very shortly get into the same mode. Talked to Avery
at Oshkosh and he agreed to exchange the 1/8 inch ones. He replaced all the
1/8 inch ones with Wedge-Loks. They are now doing the same thing. My next door
neighbor has very old ones that he used to build a 3 and a 6 with and they
continue to work fine. Poor clecoes make the job of installing clecoes yukier
than yuk.
Has anyone else who lives in a coastal environment figured it out?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Stig,
Where did he buy them? I bought clecos from Avery twice. The first 300 3/32"
were great and slid into the small #41 holes OK. The second 150 were all a
bit bigger and wouldn't fit in #41 but did fit in #40. Can't send them back
if they will do exactly as designed.
Clearly there are differences from batch to batch. If they aren't up to
specification then send them back.
hej
Royce Craven
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
>
>When halfway through the fuselage we suddenly realized a shortage of
>3/32-clecoes and borrowed some from a guy whos planning of building an RV
>but hasnt got his *** out of the wagon. Now, these clecoes are not up the
>standards we have experienced with our own. They look the same, are even
>marked "CLEKOLOC". The only visual difference is that the top is more
>"shiny" compared to the greyish color of the old ones. Problem is that they
>are some 1/1000ths narrower and tends to slip out of dimpled holes in thin
>skin(drilled to #41). They also corrodes faster and have less clamping
>force. Has anyone else had the same experience?
>----------
>> Frn: Bob Haan
>> Till: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> mne: RV-List: Clecoe Maintenance and oiling
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
My local body shop man says to paint directly over Vari-prime, but the spec
sheet says I should vari-prime, then prime, then paint. Which is correct? I
don't want to prime twice, too much weight.
Von Alexander
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Johnson <rvgasj(at)popmail.mcs.net> |
| Subject: | Invitation To All To Join The RV SQUADRON |
To all my RV friends,
I found something on the internet you may be interested in. There is a very
realistic flight simulator game (fighter ace) on the internet at
www.zone.com. In my opinion, its significantly more fun than Microsoft
flight simulator 98. If you haven't seen this yet, you don't know what your
missing.
You basically pick the aircraft you want to fly P51/p38/spitfire/FW190/etc.
and the world war II side you wish to be on. Then you fly in a simulator
comparable to Microsoft Flight Simulator 98 but compete against hundreds of
people over the internet. The simulator is very good in that it shows the
planes and scenery in very high detail. The aerobatics and dog fights are
alot of fun.
I have flown with a number of friends in this game and we go as a group with
wingman and tactics against other squadrons. It is a total blast. Anyways
if you are interested, check the website out (www.zone.com) and give it a
try. If you like it and want to be a part of a team to go up against other
squadrons, please email me privately and I'll provide the details.
I suppose that I should mention that I do not profit from this in any way,
other than its a lot of fun when the weather prevents me from real flying,
or I need a break from building the RV8A. Hope you enjoy ...
Scott Johnson rvgasj(at)mcs.com
RV6A 70+ TT, RV8A tailkit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
I had a similar problem on t tailing edges. I think it is important that you
get it down a little more. It can affect flight charac. undesireably and
result in oil canning and craking at the end of the stiffners. This is an old
problem. Did you offset the stiffners--mine ran into the opposing skin not the
opposing stiffner. Get in there and file them down. I put a rod in the
trailing edge and built the brake with piano hinge and 2x6 and slowly worked
it down. When finished it , the skin, should lay nicely on the spar without
pulling it down. If your stiffners are actually hitting each other you may
have a problem --perhaps remove bottom ones and make new ones but opposite.
Hope this helps and I am sure others will have had more exp. with this than me
. Keep at it. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets--lightspeed |
Several of you guys have spoken highly of the lightspeed units. Thanks for
your responces to my initial question. Now, are they durable--do the clamps
pop of the cups---do they have a quality look and feel---what is actual
battery life ---is the 20K worth the extra money over the 15K for a serious,
but nonetheless ,recreational pilot.RV=recreational vehicle. Thanks. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV- Expermental A&P |
Bill, you do not get an A&P for your homebuilt--you get a Repairman
Certification for THAT airplane only. It is possible to use your building a
homebuilt as part of the experiance needed to get an A&P but it requires a few
hoops to be jumped through beyond that. The RC is an automatic no brainer.
No, in regards to the 6A---your RC is not good for that ac since you did not
build it--you would have to have the annual (condition) done by an A&P,IA.
JR,A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
Any body heard about a new Lowrance handheld GPS for aviation use. I've
been hearing rumors but no details other than it will be a 12 channel
receiver.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice, has anybody closed the air flow to their oil |
cooler.
<< Restricting airflow to the oil cooler sounds riskier to me than a few well
placed strips of duct tape over the cowling cooling openings.>>
On what do you base this presumption?
<< Restricting
total airflow or uneven partial airflow could result in hotspots on the
cylinders. >>
How does restricting airflow to the oil cooler affect cylinder cooling????
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
Where is the cheapest place to purchase Tefzel wire? Van's shows only
shielded wire smaller than 18 gauge. How about some help?
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT 8127 <PILOT8127(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin 150 GPS |
FOR SALE: Panel Mount GPS !!
If your RV needs a nice Garmin 150 complete with tray, ant., and connectors.
Please E-Mail me "Off/Line" for details. $1495.oo includes shipping !
PILOT8127(at)aol.com (won't fit in my RV-3 panel)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV- Experimental A&P |
Repairman certificate is only good for the one airplane. An A&P can
perform a conditional (Annual) inspection on any Homebuilt. ANYONE can
work on any homebuilt but the original builder with a repairman
certificate or a certificated A&P is need for the conditional inspection
that is done once a year.
Gary A. Sobek
EAA Tech Counselor
FAA A&P
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>
>Question - You build an RV6 and get the Repairmen Certificate or A&P
>for the
>Aircraft you have built, you then purchase an RV6A from another
>builder, can
>you work on your RV6A or do you have to make an application for an
>additional
>certificate. Or does your 6A require & Certified A&P .
>
>Bill
>KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
> checked the skin for straightness between the spar and the trailing edge
> with a straight edge and it is as straight as an arrow until appx. the
last
> 3/8" or so before the radius. It then tapers appx. 1/16" down to the
> radius. In my opinion, this would be acceptable. What does everyone
think?
Jon,
Can you get something back there to trim the offending angles?
>When fitting my R-410 rudder horn brace (was this thing designed by
Satan?)
>to my R-405PD rudder horn and R-404 bottom rib, all fit quite well except
on
>the sides where it mates with the rib flange and the skin.
I had to shim my rudder brace also.
Alex Peterson
6A canopy frame
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Rocket demo flight |
<< I would like to get a demo in a Rocket.
>>
Where are you located? I live in Austin, if that's close enough for you.
You realize you'll never be the same after a demo in one of these....your
frame of reference wil be somewhat expanded.
Check six!
Mark
HR 2 197 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system |
> He said any
> difference between the crossover and the straight pipes was
> insignificant.
Did he look at economy (specific fuel consumption)? It might vary even if peak
h.p. did not. The crossover is supposed to help the engine scavenge exhaust
gasses better in a specific r.p.,m. range. I'm surprised there wasn't more
benefit noted. Have these results been reproduced elsewhere?
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Rivets are killing me! |
OK, today I riveted my HS front spar together, and I had the same
problem I had with the rear spar- I screwed up alot of rivets! My flush
rivets have little tiny gaps under the factory heads, and after drilling
out several other rivets, there is a tiny little gap between the spar
doubler and the spar itself. It's pretty small, but you can see light
through it. I also made a few oblong holes when I drilled out some
really bad rivets. One will have to be drilled larger, but the others
are just slightly oblong, so I'll try to squeeze rivets into them. I'm
going to seek help from my local EAA chapter, and a -6 builder I know,
but does anyone here have some advice for a frustrated beginner? Is
riveting that tough to learn?
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
Several people unsuccessfully tried to contact Dick Martin concerning
non-moving fuel senders that he installed in his RV-8 tanks. I spoke with
him this evening. He said that apparently there was a mix-up in his E-mail
address. His address is:
martin(at)gbonline.com
Dick is in our EAA chapter, and I have seen his RV-8 project (fuselage
almost out of the jig). It is a work of art.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ALFRED B WERTZ <ABWERTZ(at)compuserve.com> |
SOLANA ,et al
George Orndorff's tape (RV CONSTRUCTION FINISHING KIT) shows that Van's
does'nt supply
all the washers you might need.
I'd check with Tom Green @ Van's.
Al Wertz
RV- 6A ..... Foreverrr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel lettering |
>Mark:
>Would you please post the Avery Label Number for those labels. They sound
>excellent.
>Ron
>
I used Avery 2663 labels. These are "mini-sheets" with four, 2" x 4 1/4"
labels per sheet. It would have been easier with larger labels, but these
were the largest that that they had at the local Office Max.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
You wrote:
>
>
>A couple nights ago I built my "brake" for finishing my trailing edges
and
>proceeded to attempt bending my rudder per the instructions. All was
going
>quite well until my stiffeners contacted each other and no more
bending
>could occur. Still, when you stood the skin on end, the open end was
still
>3-4 inches from contacting the spar with one side clecoed on.
The only way I could get my trailing edges to close properly was to
touch up the bend with a hand seamer. This should be done very gently
using several passes. Check results using a steel ruler along the
trailing edge as you go.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | back issues of The RVator |
If you can't get the back issues or at least borrow someone's, you can get a
one time plans update from Van's. The price in the April '97 catalog is $50.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Does anyone out there know how one could get back issues of The RVator? I
need the last 2 in 1995 and all issues for 1996 & 1997.
My RV-4 project has been on hold for two years due to a move and having a
house and new workshop built. I would greatly appreciate
any help on this as I need them to find any building print changes that have
accured. I would be glad to pay for the issues if someone
would be willing to part with them. Thanks in advance. RWilliJill(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
<< Any absorbent material used in the tailcone for sound deadening can add
extra
weight where it is most not wanted if rain or other fluids work there way
back
there. >>
The EAR visco-elastic damping foam I used is a closed cell foam used in
commercial a/c construction for skin damping. Closed cell foams do not absorb
sound so much as dissipate it from a resonating surface. I added about 6 lbs
to my RV-6A (about 5 lbs of it behind the baggage bulkhead). This worked out
perfect for me because I have the nose wheel and the O-360 with constant speed
prop. My cg is smack on 22% MAC with pilot only and 25% MAC at 1900 lbs
utility gross weight (incl 100 lbs of baggage).
Yes, this is problematic for those with fixed pitch wood props and no flywheel
weight or Landoll balancer up front, but I think the taildraggers in
particular can benefit from the foam installation.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com |
| Subject: | vertical card compass |
For you pilots out there who have vertical card compasses, what are
your thoughts on them? I was thinking of using one to replace my old
compass, and instead of adding a d.g., but the salesman told me it
wouldn't work good enough to replace a d.g. I need to know so I can
order whatever I decide on. Thanks, alot. Michael Lott
Mike,
I installed a vertical card compass in the dash of my RV4. I
used the calibration balls and did exactly what they told me to do to
make it work. ( It didn't work ) I was lucky that I had bought it
through Aircraft Spruce. ( they gave me a full refund ) I have a
Airpath compass in my dash and I had to move my electric turn
cordinater so it would work. When ATC gives me a heading, I look
at my loran to make sure I'm on the right heading. The vertical card
compass would have been nice but me and ten other guys that offered
me advice ( on installing and calibrating it) couldn't make it work.
Also I heard later that a vertical card compass hates aerobatics.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gettin in a -6 Slider- handle installation directions |
<< My 85 year old father was up this Christmas, and I had him get in the -6A
with
a sliding canopy. Roll bar is in, but not forward canopy glass. He is is
reasonably good shape for his age, but he could not get out without using the
rollbar to hoist.
What ideas for hand holds are there for lowering yourself into, or hoisting
yourself out of a -6 with sliding canopy?
I have seen one where a handle is welded onto the SS rollbar brace.
snip
I would be concerned with the holes in the roll bar, but would be willing to
give up some safety for being able to get in easier.
Any Ideas?
Bruce Patton
>>
I wondered if anyone would ever ask this question. Get out your Sept Sport
aviation. Look on P 49. See those grab handles? They are made of 1/4" mild
steel rod (get this at Home Depot or similiar), 12" long, bent into a "U" with
4" legs. It turns out that they need to be welded only at the entrance hole,
as the tube won't let the handle rotate. Close & latch your canopy, and mark
for drilling approx 1/4" below the bottom edge of the top tube of the slider
section. Drill two 1/4" holes for the handle(use the handle as a template),
push the handle in so it touches the back of the tube, and weld it in. Any
adjustments can be made with the appropriate impact instrument (big hammer). I
put a set of these into a -6 as I did the slider for the customer- he had seen
the handles on his buddies' Rocket. Sure makes life easier! I plan to put 'em
in any -8's I work on also. I suppose a similiar handle on the ctr support bar
might also be a good feature.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate vacuum |
Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net wrote:
snipped
> Last week, I picked up an electric vacuum pump from my Chevy dealer to try
> out on some instruments. The pump weighed 3 lbs. and was off a late model
> Caddy. It is obviously 12 volt DC. Price was listed at $126, I believe.
Worked very well but the vacuum only showed about 3.5". When
> I hooked it up to both instruments, the vacuum dropped to less than 3".
> Bypassing the regulator helped. If you could do a little work and
> mount it so that if you selected it, you could bypass the installed
> regulator, I believe you would have a great source of alternate vacuum at a
> very reasonable price.
Charles,
I'm curious, is the pump you are referring to used for ride suspension
height? (aka air springs/shocks) Another GM product which uses a vacuum
pump is the Oldsmoble 4.3L and 5.7L diesel engines. This pump is used to
supply vacuum for all accessories normally using engine vacuum on the
gas engine models (ie. fuel shutoff,emission controlls and ventilation
controls) I have a 1983 Olds Cutlass Ciera LS with the 4.3L V-6 diesel
in it. The pump is belt driven. I haven't taken it off, so I don't know
what it weighs. I would guess that it weighs about 1-2 pounds. This is
sans brackets. It generates about 6" of vacuum at idle, more than enough
for aircraft instruments.
My experience with Mercedes diesels tells me that it probably generated
above 10" of vacuum when new. (The car is pushing 100,000 miles on the
original pump).The Mercedes pumps are larger, heavier and MUCH more
expensive. I would assume that the Japanese manufacturers have smaller,
lighter, more expensive units on their diesels. You may want to do a
little more research. Let me know what you find out. I hope this helps.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 elevators
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ellison Throttle Body? |
| From: | Christopher Dahl <dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net> |
Subject: Ellison Throttle Body?
Sent: 1/3/98 0900 hrs
I was just made aware of a situation that may exist with the Ellison
Throttle Body. A friend with a Six and one of these Ellisons was forced
down into the desert. Both he and his passenger walked away from the
overturned aircraft.
What evidently occurred was that the bracket that the mixture control
cable was attached to broke, and the mixture control cable became
detached from the ETB. The lever arm on the ETB that controls the
mixture evidently travels in a vertical arc. The lever arm without the
cable attached then slowly moved 'down' thereby closing off the fuel to
the ETB resulting in the engine shutting down. With no roads or dry lake
beds, he was left with only sage brush and rocks.
He blames no one and is rebuilding the airplane...fin, rudder, canopy,
cowl, engine mount and gear legs. His 'fix' will be to place a spring on
the mixture control lever such that if this should happen again, the
spring will pull the arm 'up' to the RICH position vs. 'down' to the
LEAN/OFF position.
In no way is this letter ment to slight the Ellison Throttle Body unit.
It was the bracket that broke, not the ETB. My sincere intention is to
make you folks aware of a situation that may or may not exist within your
airplane, to suggest that you might take a look at this bracket for
'disease', and to offer a preventative measure to keep your pride and joy
in the air until YOU deem it necessary to land.
I have a Four with a carb so this information is being passed on to you
with only a very clouded understanding of this situation.
This is also a testament to Van's design, engineering, and teachings.
The airplane remained whole protecting its occupants. There was no fire.
And Van's instructions that barring a wing falling off, if you are going
to be forced down, FLY FLY FLY the airplane to the ground. You WILL
survive a 50 mph crash.
Christopher Dahl
RV4 N426RC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
Bill:
When I purchased the baffle kit from Van 4 years ago, it said that they
recommend and sold a kit to mount the oil cooler on the firewall. I
phoned them and talked to Van. He stated that they did not make the
baffle kit or instructions and that it was from a vendor. He did
recommend using 3" duct if I designed my own. I did and have had HIGH
oil temperatures while flight testing. My test flying was on days where
OAT was above 100 F. I had 210 F oil temps. My aircraft has vapor
locked 2 times on the ground. When the OAT is 58 F, I need to let the
engine idle for 5 minutes to get 70 F oil temp before I do a run up. On
the same day, I can only do 4 touch and goes before hitting 200 F oil
temperature. I have repeated the touch and go routine on two different
days with similar results. Flying from Southern California (CCB) to
Sacramento (RIU) at 10,500, I indicated 166 KTAS with and OAT of 23 F, my
oil temperature was 145 F. I did hit 195 F oil temp on my full power 80
KIAS climb from 1,440 to 10,500. Temperature did drop to the reported
value after about 15 minutes of cruise. The return flight was at 5,500
and then 11,500. OAT was 59 F. My cruise oil temp was 162 F. These are
the coolest oil temperatures I have recorded to date. All equipment is
calibrated and accurate. (RMI Engine Monitor & Micro Encoder) BTW, the
1988 Linear Products Databook list temperature Nonlinearity as -0.8 C max
at -55C to +0.8 C Max at 150 C. This is a 1.9 C slope for the AD590
temperature transducer that is used for oil temperature and OAT.
IMHO, I am not happy with the firewall oil cooler installation cooling in
warm weather. It works great in cool weather. I fly in and out of
Controled fields and it is not uncommon for a 15 minute hold on the
ground. I over heat in this condition. It works great in cool weather.
The 3" SCAT tube has an area of 7 sq. in. while the left rear baffle
installation has 15 sq. in. 4" SCAT is 12 Sq. In.
I have just removed the screen from the 3" flange at the engine baffle
and installed EXHAUST INSULATING WRAP on the High Country Cross Over
exhaust. Only two flights have been made with this set up. Under cowl
temperature is lower at shut down and oil temperature appears lower.
Need to record numbers for a valid comparison. All I can say is that
with an OAT of 70, barometric pressure of 30.6, I get 175 KTAS in level
flight at 3,500'. This is one direction in less than optimum conditions.
I did have deviations from 173 to 178 KTAS. Oil temperature was 191F.
Since no one has been able to give me valid information on the different
oil cooler installation differences, I will be experimenting with a 3 "
duct, a 4" duct and a left baffle mount oil cooler. I have purchased all
the material to make 3 bolt on bolt off installations and intend to
fabricate them this winter for flight testing in the heat of summer.
The aircraft will be at the Cable Air Fair on both January 10 & 11, 1988.
I am chairman of aircraft judging. My -6 will be the one that is
unpainted. Still do not have the money saved to paint it. Will only pay
cash when I get it painted this year. If weather is good, there will be
6 flying RV aircraft built by Cable EAA 448 members on display.
Gary A. Sobek
EAA Tech Counselor
FAA A & P
N157GS RV-6 O-320 Hartzell
>
>
>
>> . I took the 3in. oil cooler that fits on top of the cooler
>> and installed a butterfly valve in the opening. Designed like that
>in a
>> carburator.My thought here was if I can keep the cold air from
>entering
>> the oil cooler by the inlet maybe that may make a difference
>
>Why not make it easy on yourself and use the system Van engineered and
>sells
>in the accessories catalog: the cooler mounts to the firewall, 3"
>SCAT tubing
>carries cooling air from the rear baffling, and an adjustable hinged
>door
>operated by a bowden cable opens on the outlet side (bottom) of the
>cooler to
>regulate air flow and hence oil cooling. Mine's not flying yet but is
>all
>plumbed up and looks sound.
>
>Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WmFletcher <"fletcher(at)polarnet.com"(at)polarnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
MAlexan533 wrote:
>
>
> My local body shop man says to paint directly over Vari-prime, but the spec
> sheet says I should vari-prime, then prime, then paint. Which is correct? I
> don't want to prime twice, too much weight.
> Von Alexander
> MAlexan533(at)aol.com
> RV-8 #544
>
> Ive painted over Vari-Prime on two occasions with no problem.. Used Dupont Centari
Acrilic Enamel both instances...
Bill Fletcher N89RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body? |
Christopher Dahl wrote:
>
>
> Subject: Ellison Throttle Body?
> Sent: 1/3/98 0900 hrs
> To: rv-list, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I was just made aware of a situation that may exist with the Ellison
> Throttle Body. A friend with a Six and one of these Ellisons was forced
> down into the desert. Both he and his passenger walked away from the
> overturned aircraft.
>
Sorry to hear about any problems people have with their RV's.
My question is just for my own benefit is how did your friend
get out of the over turned aircraft?
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compasses |
| From: | tcastella(at)juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
Don't waste your money. I had one in my Sonerai and finally junked it and
bought an Airpath. The vertical card compass couldn't be compensated to
within 5 deg and it was useless in turbulence as it would spin like a
motor. In smooth air it would stick. I know several others with the same
complaints.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
gasobek(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> Bill:
>
> When I purchased the baffle kit from Van 4 years ago, it said that they
> recommend and sold a kit to mount the oil cooler on the firewall. I
> phoned them and talked to Van. He stated that they did not make the
> baffle kit or instructions and that it was from a vendor. He did
> recommend using 3" duct if I designed my own. I did and have had HIGH
> oil temperatures while flight testing. My test flying was on days where
> OAT was above 100 F. I had 210 F oil temps. My aircraft has vapor
> locked 2 times on the ground. When the OAT is 58 F, I need to let the
> engine idle for 5 minutes to get 70 F oil temp before I do a run up.
Just out of curiosity, have you sealed all around the top and sides of
the oil cooler kit with RTV? This is to prevent any air from escaping
before going into the cooler.
Don
RV6QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
Sport AV8R wrote:
>
>
>
> Why not make it easy on yourself and use the system Van engineered and sells
> in the accessories catalog: the cooler mounts to the firewall, 3" SCAT tubing
> carries cooling air from the rear baffling
>
> Bill Boyd
>
I did purchased that kit Bill and I modified it with the butterfly for
the reasons I mentioned.
Thanks anyway.
don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets are killing me! |
Moe, stop now and seek help--riveting is a skill to be learned on something
other than the pieces you paid hard earned money for. You have the rest of
your life so what is the big hurry to go out and beat the h--- out of your
kit. If you cannot find some one to show you the golden path attend a builder
school. If you must wait a few months or weeks before attending one use that
time to practice and learn---get some books if nothing else---surely there is
a RV builder near enough to help you get a start, 3-4-6-8, their all the same.
If you have ruined a few parts then you are in very good company---just do not
quit. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Response re; chatter |
| From: | bstobbe(at)juno.com (Bruce D Stobbe) |
Listers,
I received several reprimands for posting chatter regarding my opinions
on including humor in postings. Judging by the responses, I believe my
comments were misinterpreted. What I was trying to say was that I don't
see any problem with including some humor in with the technical
information to lighten things up a bit.
Cripes, I was even accused of acting like I thought that the list was
strictly for my benefit since I mentioned that I welcomed some occasional
humor.
Mainly, I just want to go on record as having nothing to do with the
original north vs south postings other than to have made the mistake to
comment on them. As far as bringing slavery and racist comments into the
mix - there is nothing humorous about that IMO and that is not the
posting I was referring to.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6 finishing kit
"no more chatter"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Diehl <ddiehl(at)silverlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resealing Tanks |
My -4 has been flying for 400 hours over ten years and I am the third
owner. The day after I first filled my tanks they were covered with blue
stains. I pulled them thinking they needed sloshing but when I removed
the access covers I found loose ribbons of white sloshing compound and
partially blocked fuel pickups. The safest fix seems to be to cut access
holes to each bay in the aft tank bulkhead, then scrub with MEK prior to
resealing and fabricating cover plates for the access holes. This
procedure was described by Ken in the April 94 RVator.
Has anyone else done this? Is MEK the solvent of choice to remove white
sloshing compound? What gloves are most resistant to MEK? My leaks are
around the rivets securing the skin to the ribs. Any recommendations on
sealing these rivets without drilling them out and re-riveting?
All suggestions will be much appreciated.
Don Diehl
RV-4, N28EW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duberstein, Allen" <allen_duberstein(at)mail.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Vertical Card Compasses |
boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BD18C8.24961561"
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD18C8.24961561
I replaced my 'old fashioned' compass with a vertical card unit....
The new one is a lot easier to read. BUT...it behaves exactly like an
old fashioned compass. It is not usable in a turn (except for a wild
estmate). Once straight and level, it locks on the correct heading
very well with no drifting back and forth.
It looks better and reads better but is no better functionally.
regards
allen
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com AT SMTPGATE on 01/03/98 12:03
Subject: RV-List: Vertical Card Compasses
For you pilots out there who have vertical card compasses, what are
your thoughts on them? I was thinking of using one to replace my old
compass, and instead of adding a d.g., but the salesman told me it
wouldn't work good enough to replace a d.g. I need to know so I can
order whatever I decide on. Thanks, alot. Michael Lott
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD18C8.24961561
name="External.TXT"
filename="External.TXT"
The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.
***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.
Subject: RV-List: Vertical Card Compasses
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 00:03:09 -0600
by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA22262
T)
[132.233.247.11]) by fmm ail.fm.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id
BAA26199 for <Allen_Duberstein@ccm.
------ =_NextPart_000_01BD18C8.24961561--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compass |
A Vertical Card Compass is just that, and it has all the inherent errors
that any magnetic compass has. It is not at all a replacement for a DG.
The information it provides is of little value unless you are in
unaccelerated flight. (straight and level) Other wise what you see is
determined by which way you are going and which way you are turning. They
are a neat gee-Whiz deal and easier to visualize which way to turn to get to
a desired heading, but is that really that big of a problem? Personally I
would not lay out the extra cash for one. The answer to you "main thing"
question is, In your RV you can see the entire airport all the time unlike a
C-150. Hence you will never look inside the cockpit to determine a hdg for
downwind or base again. Save your $ IMHO
Tailwinds, CFI MEI -4 N240
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
>I was
>wondering if it could operate well enough to be a good replacement for a
>d.g.? The main thing I like about a
>d.g. is the help it gives when I am making turns setting up for an
>approach to a busy airport. A compass alone is no help at all in a
>situation like this, and it doesn't take much to get you confused about
>directions. I appreciate all opinions on this. Thanks. Michael Lott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
>My local body shop man says to paint directly over Vari-prime, but the spec
>sheet says I should vari-prime, then prime, then paint. Which is correct? I
>don't want to prime twice, too much weight.
>Von Alexander
Von,
I sprayed PPG Durethane over Variprime on the interior of my RV-6 and it
seemed to work out fine and the paint is adhering, fine. I'm sure for the
best job that the specs are correct. A 98% job instead of a 90%?.
I did meet a fella from Texas, flying a RV-6, several years ago at, I
think, the Greely, CO fly in (or maybe it was Longmont.) He had a very nice
paint job, white if I remember correctly, and he told me that that he shot
the Imron right on top of the Variprime. Of course, he was a Texan and you
know---oops, sorry John D.
On some of the first prototypes, didn't Van's shoot the finish coat right
over alodined surfaces to save weight? As I remember, though, one of the
blue sixes seemed to have shed a bit of paint.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compasses |
I only have 125 hours on my vertical card compass, but it has been trouble
free for me, and I consider it a much better source of heading info than the
whiskey compass. Ity is mounted on top of the glare shield next to the
vertical bar on my slider. I don't do violent aerobatics but usually do some
barrel and aileron rolls about every other flight. So far both my gyros and
compass seem happy. I would say it provides adequate heading for most VFR
work. It is well damped and doesn't spin except in turns. Mine is a
Precision. Have heard of problems with early models of Hamilton ??
I await other reports. there are a lot of them out there!
D Walsh, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LesDrag <LesDrag(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Homeowners Insurance on RV kits |
Hi All,
I just passed the Property and Casualty Test for the STATE LICENSE on
homeowner and dwelling insurance.
Insurance is regulated at the state level, not at a national level. An
insurance company can provide better coverage than the state requires. It
would seem to me that we all need too read our individual policies.
Jim Ayers
Personal Financial Analyist
License # 0C09553
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I insulated my baggage compartment today. This took away the worst of
the bass drum type noise I was experiencing in my -4. It is still too
loud for my headsets. I tried some anr headphones today. This is
definitely the way I will have to go. I will try either the lightspeed
20k, or the new pilot headsets with everything built in (no extra wires
hanging around). The price is a little less than 400 for either set. I
couldn't believe the difference they made in the low frequency hum. I'm
sold.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LesDrag <LesDrag(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Resealing Tanks |
<< Subj: Re: RV-List: Resealing Tanks
Date: 98-01-04 01:07:28 EST
From: ddiehl(at)silverlink.net (Don Diehl)
Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
My -4 has been flying for 400 hours over ten years and I am the third
owner. The day after I first filled my tanks they were covered with blue
stains. I pulled them thinking they needed sloshing but when I removed
the access covers I found loose ribbons of white sloshing compound and
partially blocked fuel pickups. The safest fix seems to be to cut access
holes to each bay in the aft tank bulkhead, then scrub with MEK prior to
resealing and fabricating cover plates for the access holes. This
procedure was described by Ken in the April 94 RVator.
Has anyone else done this? Is MEK the solvent of choice to remove white
sloshing compound? What gloves are most resistant to MEK? My leaks are
around the rivets securing the skin to the ribs. Any recommendations on
sealing these rivets without drilling them out and re-riveting?
All suggestions will be much appreciated.
Don Diehl
RV-4, N28EW >>
Hi Don,
I seem to have a similar problem with a fuselage tank on my secong RV-3.
Randolph sloshing compound was used that does not set-up. I was told by the
Randolph people to clean the excess sloshing compound out with MEK. Also, I
didn't need to remove all of the sloshing compound. They recommended re-
sloshing with Randolph 912 sloshing compound, which will set-up.
I haven't done this yet. I planned to plug all of the holes, pour in the MEK,
and slosh it around. Then unseal the tank openings and vent the tank for a
while (no fumes?) before I resealed the tank to slosh.
Hope this helps. Of course, if you don't have Randolph Sloshing compound in
you tank to begin with, it may not help much at all.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body? |
<< What evidently occurred was that the bracket that the mixture control
cable was attached to broke, and the mixture control cable became
detached from the ETB. >>
Chris,
I understood your post perfectly and understand you are not bashing the
Ellison. This is good because this can happen to any system with a mixture arm
and control cable. I know because I was forced to land once when the same
thing happened on a cessna 150 I was flying (fortunatly a safe landing with
no damage). If that mixture arm goes to full lean its all over, you are now a
glider. Installing a spring that will pull the arm to the full rich position
in case of cable breakage is an idea that is worth good consideration by all.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
Hi Jon
I had the same space on each side of the 410 and I also shimmed it. A strip
about one half inch by three was just right. Imho this has to be a little
stronger than torqueing the two together at that slight angle. With the shims
and longer rivets the unit is now solidly held together.
Best building wishes,
Dennis Clay
RV-#80473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
Jon,
_____________________________
____LI___LI___LI___LI___________
Sorry,
Im not up to speed on drawing with the computer yet so I hope this makes
sense. Your stiffeners should not contact one another. If you hold your rudder
or elevator together at the leading edges and look inside this is what you
shoud see (sort of). the stiffeners form a box shape. If your stiffeners are
contacting the skin, simply trim the angles of your stiffeners more.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Thread engagement specs |
<< Am I right in understanding that the reason for the peep
hole is only to confirm pullout strength of the assembly? >>
Alex,
Its reffered to as a whitness hole, not a peep hole. It is simply there
to look into or stick a piece of wire into to verify proper thread engagment.
A go no go device. In high vibration areas saftieable jamnuts are used. For
our aplication the recomended jamnuts work fine.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
In a message dated 1/3/98 9:12:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM writes:
> My R-410 did not
> fit gracefully even after considerable effort and tweaking (and cussing).
I
> ended up fitting a .032 shim between it and the rib flange on both sides.
This is common, as the rudder torque box (R-410) and the rudder bottom rib
flange occur at different angles to each other. I had to shim mine too and it
came out fine.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
>ll in all, like someone previously mentioned, if they devoted months
>to going through and ironing out all of the minor discrepancies I, for
>one, would not be able to afford the kits after the prices adjusted to
>cover the costs.
I beg to differ. They don't have to find them. We do that for them.
If they just note the changes needed when they find the fix, the
masters could be changed accordingly. In no time, it would be a
cost savings due to the fewer calls received. Today, they also have
to deal with the e-mail notes. It costs a lot to have those guys
manning phones instead of doing something to help produce more
product. The better the finished product, the less they need for a
large support team.
What really bothers me is that they've done nothing about design
flaws or vendor errors such as holes not properly drilled in wing spars.
They seem more interested in new stuff than fixing the old stuff that's
still being sold at a rapid rate.
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (Just worked around the electric flap design flaw.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: back issues of The RVator |
Recommend -16 years of the RV-Ator--from R-Vation Bookstore,PO Box 270,
Tabernash,CO,80478---$27.95-- Has all the good articles on all
subjects..Email--
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com.
Jim Brown
Flying:3&4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Brandon <majortom(at)mursuky.campus.mci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket demo flight |
Please, what is a rocket?
Tom Brandon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <airshows1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
Hey guys, I've been painting warbirds for years and the proper procedure is
to paint directly over the primer no matter what system you're using -- PPG,
DuPont, etc. If you want to ensure good chemical bond, paint final coat(s)
within 1-2 days of shooting the primer, don't use accelerator with either
primer or color coat, and use the same manufacturer for both. If you want to
get slightly better mechanical or physical bonding, scuff the primer all
over with scotchbrite pads then remove residue with proper tack rag.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime?
>
>>My local body shop man says to paint directly over Vari-prime, but the
spec
>>sheet says I should vari-prime, then prime, then paint. Which is correct?
I
>>don't want to prime twice, too much weight.
>>Von Alexander
>
>Von,
> I sprayed PPG Durethane over Variprime on the interior of my RV-6 and it
>seemed to work out fine and the paint is adhering, fine. I'm sure for the
>best job that the specs are correct. A 98% job instead of a 90%?.
> I did meet a fella from Texas, flying a RV-6, several years ago at, I
>think, the Greely, CO fly in (or maybe it was Longmont.) He had a very
nice
>paint job, white if I remember correctly, and he told me that that he shot
>the Imron right on top of the Variprime. Of course, he was a Texan and you
>know---oops, sorry John D.
> On some of the first prototypes, didn't Van's shoot the finish coat right
>over alodined surfaces to save weight? As I remember, though, one of the
>blue sixes seemed to have shed a bit of paint.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets--lightspeed |
JRWillJR wrote:
>
>
> Several of you guys have spoken highly of the lightspeed units. Thanks for
> your responces to my initial question. Now, are they durable--do the clamps
> pop of the cups
I have been flying with the Lightspeed 15K units since April, 1997. Most
of the time has been in a Cub, but I do have a couple of flights in a
RV6A (yeah!). The ANR performance has been outstanding, especially
considering the price.
The headsets have been durable with no malfunctions. Since the headsets
are stored in the unheated hanger, I am careful with them on very cold
days since I don't know if the low temps would make the plastic headband
less flexible. But overall, they have stood up to wear and tear very
well.
---do they have a quality look and feel
Yes and no. They ARE made out of plastic; However, nearly everything
else these days except RVs are also plastic.....
The workmanship of the Lightspeeds is good, and everyone who has
seen/worn them has been impressed with their quality and comfort.
---what is actual
> battery life
Never measured battery life, but would estimate about 10-15 hours on two
AAs. I just carry extras in the plane, takes only a minute to change out
the batteries.
---is the 20K worth the extra money over the 15K for a serious,
> but nonetheless ,recreational pilot.RV=recreational vehicle. Thanks. JR
I have a friend who bought the 20K because that was all he could find on
short notice...short notice because after wearing my 15K's, he HAD to
have a pair IMMEDIATELY for his Champ! He can't tell a lot of difference
between the two. The 20K has deeper ear pads than the 15K.
I recommend these headsets, and by the way, the 6A pilot now has a pair.
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need Advice, has anybody closed the air flow to |
their oil cooler...
>I block off about 2/3 of my cooler intake during the winter, and keep the
>oil cooler door closed. It keeps my temps right at 180, and if I get
>surprised by a warm day, I can partially open the cooler door in flight.
>
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
>ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
Didn't Jim Cone put a cowl flap at the bottom of the cowl? If
installed right that would accomplish more or less cooling of cylinder heads
and oil, wouldn't it?
Happy building & Merry Flying!
denny-->> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Caution - how to misalign R-405PD |
RV-Listers,
I managed to make some extra work for my self by screwing up the
positioning of the R-405PD rudder horn when I drilled it to the
rudder spar and the R-606PP reinforcing plate. Van says to use a 3/8
bolt to hold it all together prior to drilling. George O in his RV-8
rudder video suggests using one of the rod ends as an option.
I used the rod end, but didn't think to put a nut on it before
inserting it into the assembly. The bearing part of the rod end was
against the R-405PD, and the unthreaded part of the shaft was inside
the hole of the 405. The unthreaded part is smaller diameter than
the threads, which allowed the 405 to move around a bit I guess.
Last night when I tried to screw a rod end into the K1000-6 I found
that the hole in the R-405PD is slightly misaligned. The rod end
threads hit the R-606 on the top side, and the R-405 on the bottom
side, and don't line up with the K1000-6. I will have to invest a
couple of hours with a needle file to ovalize the hole in the 405.
Fortunately the misalignment is in the vertical direction, not
lateral, so I don't expect that it will cause me any problems down
the road.
If you haven't done this yet make sure that you have a threaded part
of the bolt or rod end through all the pieces (R-405, rudder spar and
R-606).
Take care,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hugh Shields <hugh.shields(at)sympatico.ca> |
I just insured with Avemco after being told by my personal and business
insurance company that my homeowners policy and company policy would not
extend coverage to my a/c. I phoned Avemco and they bound builders
coverage right over the phone. It covers a/c damage both in the shop and
in transport. Annual premium on $20,000.00 with $200.00 deductible was
$274.00Cd inc taxes.(Thats about $4.75 US) just kidding! Translates into
around $200.00US. By the by, shop around. My business broker supplied a
quote from BAIG (British Aviation Insurance Group) with the same coverage
for $800.00 per year.
H.Shields
St. Thomas Ont.
6-AQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vertical card compass |
JimNolan(at)mail.kconline.com wrote:
>
>
> For you pilots out there who have vertical card compasses, what are
> your thoughts on them?
Jim;
While visiting a well known instrument shop in ICT, I asked about a
vertical compass as an option as I was updating the radios and adding a
Century autopilot on my Cherokee. They didn't recommend using one as
they said they were prone to failure. I took their advise and rebuilt
my Airpath for about $15. It had already operated, trouble free, for 15
years. I plan on using the same on a ss post in my 6A.
Marty RV-6AQ/464RV Erwinna, Pa.
wings done-back in basement working on rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Response re; chatter |
>I received several reprimands for posting chatter regarding my opinions
>on including humor in postings. Judging by the responses, I believe my
>comments were misinterpreted. What I was trying to say was that I don't
>see any problem with including some humor in with the technical
>information to lighten things up a bit.
Bruce,
No misinterpretation here. I agree. It's good to have a little humor on
the list. Unfortunately, there are always some newcomers who come onto the
list with a chip on their shoulders and make it a royal pain in the butt for
the rest of the listeres. It seems that most of the time, they come around
and learn how to play right or disappear from the list.
I think the influx of newbie, know-it-alls is one reason why we are
seeing fewer and fewer postings by people who are flying RVs. Too bad.
Regards,
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
Jon Elford wrote:
>
>
> A couple nights ago I built my "brake" for finishing my trailing edges and
> proceeded to attempt bending my rudder per the instructions. All was going
> quite well until my stiffeners contacted each other and no more bending......
Jon;
I had the same problem with the trailing edge of my rudder. I
followed George's video and just bent the trailing 1/4 in.- this worked
it now breaks about 1/8 in from the edge
I also had to shim R 410. .032 on one side .020 on the other.
Marty RV-6AQ/464RV(rsvd) Erwinna, Pa.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
In a message dated 1/4/98 6:30:39 AM, you wrote:
> I, for
I have been grousing about Van's plans for six years and feel there is merit
to discussing them individually on this forum; however I would like to add a
little first hand perspective so the lurkers don't get scared off. From where
I sit, the plans error rate has diminished greatly the past five years, due
to Van's total focus on providing a quality product. Ask Jim Cone who retired
his newsletter column on plans errors basically because they were fixed or
changed by the time he went to press.
What you new guys don't realize is that the current crop of mistakes has been
mostly brought about by the continuous improvements to the kits . Believe me
the wordsmiths could have all the glitches solved long ago if Van's would
quit improving the kit. Is that what you want? Freeze the design for five
years and fix all the little plans problems? Baloney. Give me continuous
product improvement and the inevitable plans and instructions glitches!
Before you get too worked up over plans and instructions, ask the person who
flies one. I have yet to find a disappointed RV owner who wishes he had
bought a plane with better instructions!
D Walsh RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compasses |
----------
> From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vertical Card Compasses
> Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 6:56 AM
>One fellow has shielded the
> compass from the electronic instruments with a sheet medal that I have
> forgotten the name of. He is just about ready to fly, so no one knows if
he
> will win on that installation yet.
> >
> Happy building & Merry Flying!
> denny-->> RV-6
The trade name is MuMetal, so named for its high magnetic permeability
which is designated by the Greek letter mu. However it is the offending
magnetic-field-causing elements that get the shielding, NOT the compass!
In my Skyhawk my Narco CDI has a MuMetal cylinder to keep it field from
throwing my whiskey compass way off. It is usually easier to relocate the
compass than trying to shield all the sources of magnetic field. Even
straight runs of wire create a magnetic field.
Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument Panel
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Wootton" <wcw(at)calweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets--lightspeed |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_01BD18F9.20E8E860
I've heard allot of talk about the lightspeed headsets lately, enough to
make me want to get a pair to try. The problem is I haven't been able to
find them!!!
Can somebody tell me some distributors that sell the lightspeed sets.
Thanks
Bill Wootton
RV6 Wings (fuselage on its way :)
------=_NextPart_000_01BD18F9.20E8E860
I've heard allot of talk about the =
lightspeed headsets lately, enough to make me want to get a =
pair to try. The problem is I haven't been able to find =
them!!!
Can somebody tell me some distributors that sell the =
lightspeed sets.
Thanks
Bill Wootton
RV6 Wings (fuselage =
on its way :)
------=_NextPart_000_01BD18F9.20E8E860--
circles of .063 aluminum. Drill about 8
evenly spaced #30 holes around the edges for attatchment later. Center a
plate in each bay you want to gain access to. Now drill the plate to the rear
baffle and clecoe in place. Draw a circle around the plate. Remove the plate's
making sure you know which one goes where. Now find the centers of the circles
on the rear baffle and using a fly cutter remove a circle a half inch in
diameter smaller than the original circle. When the cleaning and resealing job
is complete install access plates wet with proseal. I have found that when you
are ready to install the plates that the sealed rivets that vans use's for the
rear baffle work well. I dont see any need for using screws and nutplates for
these access plates because if you do the job right there should never be a
need to gain access again. If you should you simply drill out the rivets and
work the covers off.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnes, Eric" <eric.barnes(at)tandem.com> |
| Subject: | Headsets--lightspeed |
I have the 20Ks and love them. I think I'll buy the 15Ks for the wife
though, given the comments I've read. Only difference is less padding
and a bit poorer performance on the ANR. I doubt she or I will be able
to tell the difference in reality.
The headset seems durable to me. One note - I believe the band is
metal, covered in plastic. I'm pretty careful with my stuff, and I have
no worries that they will hold up.
Batteries - mine lasted 15+ hours of flight time the first round, and
that DOESN'T include about 10 hours I left them on after the flight. I
think the amount of noise they have to cancel affects the life, but I'm
not sure. In other words, I don't think those 10 hours in the bag count
as 10 flight hours.
Hope this helps. I'll post a comparison with what ever headset I get
for the WIB.
EB #80131 Trim Tab (Elevators done)
-----Original Message-----
Several of you guys have spoken highly of the lightspeed units. Thanks
for
your responces to my initial question. Now, are they durable-do the
clamps
pop of the cups---do they have a quality look and feel---what is actual
battery life ---is the 20K worth the extra money over the 15K for a
serious,
but nonetheless ,recreational pilot.RV=recreational vehicle. Thanks. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket demo flight |
Harmon Rocket - September Sport Aviation - RV4 with modifications
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Hey Guys:
I have been in the Building Business Electrcal Contractor for over 22 years -
show me a set of Drawings with out some problems - Even the Revised Revised
Revised drawings have problems, As far as Van's are concerned they are by far
the best I have seen in a long time. Plus the support you can't beat it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Smell Source Found |
A couple of weeks ago I mentioned a strong fuel smell in the cabin on
climbout that seemed to go away as soon as I turned off the boost pump
which I do after reaching about 1000' agl.
Searching for the source of the smell I climbed underneath the panel and
watched all the fittings as the boost pump ran for about 5 minutes.
Everything was dry. I took off again and the same thing happened. A
strong smell until the boost pump was shut off.
Today, I pulled the cowl and again ran the pump so I could watch the
fittings around the gascolator and engine pump. Everything was still
dry. I then turned on the electric primer, and there it was. Fuel was
sraying out of a hole which had developed in one of the primer lines.
The primer line is snugged to the induction tubes with metal clamps. One
of the clamps was loose fitting and had chafed away at the tube until it
failed.
So fuel was not leaking when I had smelled it, and turning off the boost
pump had nothing to do with eliminating the leak. It was just a
coincidence that the 10 minutes it took to run up the engine, taxi to
the runway and climb to 1000', before turning off the boost pump, was
the same time that it took for the odor of the fuel that had leaked
while the primer was on to get to my side of the firewall.
I will now remake the primer tubes and make sure that any clamp used for
its support is made of rubber, not metal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horizontal Stabilizer |
>
>
><< The incidence of the horizontal tail can be the same or even greater than
> the wing and still have a negative angle of attack. The wing turns the air
> downwards in the area behind it... downwash.>>
>
>This may very well be. My original point was that one should not use positive
>horizontal stabilizer incidence to overcome a weight and balance problem.
>
>-GV
>
Absolutely.
The aft C.G. limit is not directly effected by stabilizer incidence, the
forward limit is. Increasing the incidence of the stabilizer will reduce
elevator power and move the forward limit aft.
David Fried
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compasses |
>
>The trade name is MuMetal, so named for its high magnetic permeability
>which is designated by the Greek letter mu. However it is the offending
>magnetic-field-causing elements that get the shielding, NOT the compass!
Yes, that is what I meant. As Re-read it I hadn't. Thanks
Does twisting help rid the magnetic field from electric wires? Is
there a distance from the compass for wires that would help?
Happy building & Merry Flying!
denny-->> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | engine pre-heaters |
Any comments on the quality of the various engine pre-heaters;
particularly the Reiff Hotpad sold by Spruce?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip A Lehrke" <plehrke(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Storage of quickbuild wings |
I received delivery of my RV-6A quickbuild kit just before Christmas. I do
not currently have room to take the wings out of the shipping crate. Is it
OK to store the wings in the shipping crate in the same orientation as they
were shipped or should I remove them from the crate?
Phil Lehrke
RV-6A just Starting Quickbuild
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans and Pre-Drilled Spars |
In a message dated 1/4/98 7:30:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, sears(at)searnet.com
writes:
> What really bothers me is that they've done nothing about design
> flaws or vendor errors such as holes not properly drilled in wing spars.
> They seem more interested in new stuff than fixing the old stuff that's
> still being sold at a rapid rate.
>
I guess the fact that others have done it makes me that much more determined
to finish my RV4. Having just gotten my wing kit and having found the spar
holes to be off by 3/16 inch at almost every rib station is a little
discouraging, however. Especially when I try to work to machinist's
tolerances whenever possible. I guess the errors can be compensated for in
the placement of the holes in the rib attach angles. Am I correct on this ?
This and any other little bump in the road seems insignificant when I think
about the sensation of riding in an RV4, a pleasure I have had twice now.
Also, there is no other airplane, other than maybe a fast plastic one (for two
or three times the cost) that compares to the RV.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Bum flyer wrote:
>
I have yet to find a disappointed RV owner who wishes he had
> bought a plane with better instructions!
>
> D Walsh RV-6A
>
---
You summed it up very well, well said. You guy's could have it like I
did I had 100 hrs on my RV-6 before I got the finnish kit drawings
and manual. :-)
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh/Lakeland Vendor? |
Last year at Sun-N-Fun, I purchased a leather cow hide to cover the seats in
my RV-8. The vendor that I bought this from is always at Lakeland and Oshkosh
in a tent with misc. AN hardware. I have since decided that I would like to
cover the side walls with the leather also. If anyone has done business with
this person, and has a phone number or name, I would greatly appreciate you
forwarding this info. to me. I paid cash at the time of the sale and do not
have a name or number for this vendor. Thanks again for any help in this
matter.
Regards,
Louis Smith
lousmith(at)aol.com
RV8 N801RV #80126
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICKRV6 <RICKRV6(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rusting Steel |
Don,
The only problem is the steel parts for the wing came full of rust, at least
mine did.
Rick McBride
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RICKRV6 <RICKRV6(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Vision MicroSystem Fuel Quantity Gauges |
If any of you have installed or are familiar with the transducers for the
Vision fuel quanity gauges in an RV I'd like to ask you a few questions off
line. Thanks in advance.
Rick McBride
rickrv6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | cable routing for position light in rudder bottom |
RV-Listers,
I am building an RV-8. I will be putting a combination
strobe/position light in my rudder bottom fairing. I am wondering
where the cable routing will be. The RV-8 preview plans are not
available yet, so all I've got to look at is my tail plans. Do I
need to cut a hole in the bottom rudder rib and rudder spar so the
cable can come into the fuselage above the bottom rudder hinge, or
will it be able to come out the front of the rudder fairing below the
bottom hinge? If I have to cut holes in the rib and spar I figure it
will be better to do it now, before I rivet the skin on.
Thanks for your help,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (working on rudder)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
<<
Following up with the previous post about in-the-cowl fuel leaks, a
friend had suggested installing an asbestos like wrap that covers the
exhaust system.
the benefits he said were
1] A smoother running engine with better power, because the wrap will
allow the exhaust gasses to stay warm longer, thus lowering exhaust
manifold back pressure.
Any comments?>>
Well, yes. Although the idea of wrapping a pipe seems valid for the other
reasons you stated, e.g. fireproofing and under-cowl cooling, this sounds like
if any benefit could be found, it would be negligible. I've not done a
calculation, but I'll guess that the temp drop from manifold to pipe tip just
isn't large enough to affect the internal pressure of the gasses.
If it did, I would expect to see a lot of wrapping on F1 racers and AA-Fuel
dragsters. Those are no-expenses-spared projects trying to extract every last
decimal place of HP. Anything that cheap and easy would have been done eons
ago.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
>>A couple nights ago I built my "brake" for finishing my trailing edges
>and
>>proceeded to attempt bending my rudder per the instructions. All was
>going
>>quite well until my stiffeners contacted each other and no more
>bending
>>could occur. Still, when you stood the skin on end, the open end was
>still
>>3-4 inches from contacting the spar with one side clecoed on.
>
>The only way I could get my trailing edges to close properly was to
>touch up the bend with a hand seamer. This should be done very gently
>using several passes. Check results using a steel ruler along the
>trailing edge as you go.
>
>Steve Johnson
>RV-8 #80121
>
Hi folks,
For what it's worth, I didn't go overboard with the trailing edge
crease...a sharp radius can crack...AND, I've had my control surfaces
looked at by an A&P/IA friend of mine who also has every rating known to
mankind and thousands of hours in everything with wings or rotors...the
trailing edge formed with the 2x6 brake is FINE...and better than a
sharp edge as I've seen on a couple of -4s locally..both with cracks
starting to form..(although they had the thinner skins..which may be the
primary contributing factor).
I also offer another observation...look at the ailerons on many of the
latest acro-machines...SQUARED off trailing edges. This gives a better
center feel...to help lock in the neutral position after a rolling
input. I won't go into the aerodynamics of it...unless you prime me with
a fresh homebrew...then...???
Just my thoughts on the matter.
Enjoy the building!
Brian Denk
left wing skins ready to rivet.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vertical Card Compasses |
----------
> From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vertical Card Compasses
> Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 5:42 PM
>
> >
> Does twisting help rid the magnetic field from electric wires?
Is
> there a distance from the compass for wires that would help?
>
> Happy building & Merry Flying!
> denny-->> RV-6
>
Denny,
Twisting the wires will only help if the ground (or minus) and plus are
running together; a couple of turns per inch will suffice. Actually
running them parallel together is enough, but twisting will ensure that
they don't move around with vibration. However you still need to have
several inches separation from the compass because the cancellation is not
complete up close.
The magnetic field will be proportional to the current, so high current
wires (landing lights) are the worst.
The field strength will fall off as 1/r, where r is the distance from the
wire. If the wire starts out 1 inch from the compass and you move it 2
inches away, the strength is halved; if you move it three inches away it is
reduced to 1/3.
The problem is that the earth's magnetic field is pretty weak compared to
the fields produced by current-carrying conductors or accidentally
magnetized parts. Many of the weldments in my 6A came magnetized. They
can easily be unmagnetized with a degaussing coil, purchased or home made.
The compensating magnets in compasses can correct for tiny, constant
magnetic fields or effects of ferrous metal, but larger effects just swamp
out the earth's signal and then you have unreliable compass readings.
Dennis Persyk 6A instrument panel
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
My comments are exactly the same. Go look at some of the metal airplane
plans that were out before the RVs. I had plans for a T-18. John Thorpe
was an excellent engineer. Van's plans are superior. I obtained my -6
plans in 1988 and what you guys are getting now are first rate. All of
us that are flying did it with out the support you are getting now.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>
>Hey Guys:
>
>show me a set of Drawings with out some problems - Even the Revised
Revised
>Revised drawings have problems, As far as Van's are concerned they are
by far
>the best I have seen in a long time. Plus the support you can't beat
it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Headsets--lightspeed |
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
JR,
Have only had my Lightspeed 20K's about 7-8 weeks , so cannot talk much
about durability but so far, so good. They do have a very "quality" look
and feel. Battery life seems to be 12-15 hours on 2 AA's, much less if
you forget to turn them off. Cannot comment on the 15K's since I have not
tried them.
Regards, Bill Davis RV4 , N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Robert,
If your engine uses a Carb., a couple of strokes of the throttle (
accelerator pump ) will do the job unless you live in cold climates.
Aircraft Spruce sells a small S.S 12V. solenoid that will do the job. As
I recall, it is about $35. It should be tee'd into the fuel line
downstream of the boost pump, then to a distribution manifold (easy to
make ), then 1\8 " copper lines to the Cyls. Each fitting into the
cylinder has to be restricted, the hole size should be about .020". Your
primer switch can be wired to turn on the boost pump at the same time,
through a 1 AMP silicon diode of course so the reverse doesn't happen.
Had this system on my old RV6 (Ellison TBI) & it worked just fine.
Regards, Bill RV4 N66WD
um, slow for steel.
Secondly, the fuel senders...are they mounted in place with AN3-3A bolts
into K1000 (#10) nutplates? I don't see any reference to hardware called
out on the plans. I'm modifying the left tank for the inverted system,
so the sender is tucked wayyyyy in there (second rib bay) where it won't
be easily accessed once the tank is installed on the wing. Also, do the
flush rivets that are used to attach the nutplates require Proseal? They
will be under the sender mount rubber gasket so I'm not sure if it's
worth the bother. Comments?
Happy new year's building to all!
Brian Denk
-8 #379 wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets are killing me! |
>OK, today I riveted my HS front spar together, and I had the same
>problem I had with the rear spar- I screwed up alot of rivets! My flush
>rivets have little tiny gaps under the factory heads, and after
drilling
>out several other rivets, there is a tiny little gap between the spar
>doubler and the spar itself. It's pretty small, but you can see light
>through it. I also made a few oblong holes when I drilled out some
>really bad rivets. One will have to be drilled larger, but the others
>are just slightly oblong, so I'll try to squeeze rivets into them. I'm
>going to seek help from my local EAA chapter, and a -6 builder I know,
>but does anyone here have some advice for a frustrated beginner? Is
>riveting that tough to learn?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8
Moe,
Been there myself. For starters, are you using GOOD quality rivet sets?
I used borrowed el cheapo sets and mashed MANY rivets. Then I bought the
super nice sets from Avery...HUGE difference..the sets stayed in place
with less effort from me. Also, make sure you turn down the pressure to
the gun...I use about 25psi to a 2x gun and it's very controllable. As
for your technique..remember...the gun wins the push..NOT the bucking
bar and the parts you are working on must be firmly stabilized in place
so they cannot get away from you.
As for the protruding flush rivet heads...are you certain the
countersink or dimple is deep enough? The head will "upset" somewhat
when it is driven and it needs the room to do so. Place a rivet in the
first few holes you dimple or countersink to see how consistent you are
during this procedure. Even a microstop countersink can yield varying
results depending upon the skill of the user...not that it ever happened
to me! uh huh.
Get out some scrap material...and bang away..you'll get it figured
out..I have faith in ya!
Best of the new year to you...
Brian Denk
-8 wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N95MF <N95MF(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: chatter/north vs south |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LUANNE BROOKER" <bbp(at)mylink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vision MicroSystem Fuel Quantity Gauges |
----------
> From: RICKRV6 <RICKRV6(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Vision MicroSystem Fuel Quantity Gauges
> Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:13 PM
>
>
> If any of you have installed or are familiar with the transducers for the
> Vision fuel quanity gauges in an RV I'd like to ask you a few questions
off
> line. Thanks in advance.
>
> Rick McBride
> rickrv6(at)aol.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | engine pre-heaters |
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com wrote:
> Any comments on the quality of the various engine pre-heaters;
> particularly the Reiff Hotpad sold by Spruce?
>
> Andy
Andy,
You may wish to read the Aviation Consumer reviews of the Hotpadd oil
heater and the Hotbandd cylinder heating system in the March 1996 and
February 1997 issues. Summaries are in our web site.
Several other aviation publications have also done test reviews on us,
such as AOPA. Also see TBO Advisor (see #97 in Kas Thomas' book "101+
Ways to Extend the Life of Your Engine"). Flying magazine is currently
testing our oil & cylinder heater systems and will be doing an article
later this winter.
I have also been told by customers that some of the owners groups
(Cessna Pilots Association, Mooney Pilots Association, American
Beechcraft Society) have been recommending us to their members, but I
have not attempted to confirm that.
Bob Reiff
RV4 #2646, building fuselage
Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.execpc.com/reiff
FAA-PMA aircraft preheat systems, insulated engine covers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
MAlexan533 asked:
>My local body shop man says to paint directly over Vari-prime, but the spec
>sheet says I should vari-prime, then prime, then paint. Which is correct? I
>don't want to prime twice, too much weight.
It depends. Yes, you can paint directly over the veriprime. In fact, the
DuPont Imron Aircraft Finishes booklet specifies that Imron be applied
directly over Veriprime if the substrate is aluminum.
On the other hand, some for products (such as Chroma One) DuPont specifies
a sealer coat between the Veriprime and the Chroma One. (having said this,
a friend's airplane is painted with Chroma One, he did not use a sealer,
and his paint is beautiful.)
My advice is this: If you are thinking of having thes body shop guy paint
your airplane for you, go look at some other airplanes he has painted. Find
some that he painted two, three, or even five years ago. Do they look
good? If so, then let him paint your airplane the way he wants; the way he
knows how. After all painting is more art than science.
Best Regards,
dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
down to the last 10%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | RV9 Prototype.... |
Just thought I'd pass on some info on the new RV9. Van flew it into our
monthly EAA fly-in breakfast yesterday. He just got it up and flying (he
was still wearing a parachute). It is basically a 6A with longer wings,
much longer flaps, new cowl, different wing tips and sported a Lyc O-235
engine. It is a purpose built trainer and has some good slow flight
characteristics. After taking off, he flew over mid-field at MCA. He then
proceded to show off a very tight turn at MCA. It was quite impressive and
somewhat unusual to see an RV flying so slow. The thing just seemed to be
hanging there! Bill Benedict said Van has flown it as slow as 43 mph IAS!
This was in stark contrast to his brother Jerry's 180 c/s RV4 which wasn't
hurting for climb rate. :-)
Anyway, FWIW, just passing on what I'd seen.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
se pumps were quite trouble free in my experience. Some
long out-lasting the engines they were bolted to. Food for thought.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
----------
> From: Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Exhaust system wrap
> Date: Sunday, January 04, 1998 7:34 PM
>
>
>
> <<
> Following up with the previous post about in-the-cowl fuel leaks, a
> friend had suggested installing an asbestos like wrap that covers the
> exhaust system.
>
> the benefits he said were
> 1] A smoother running engine with better power, because the wrap will
> allow the exhaust gasses to stay warm longer, thus lowering exhaust
> manifold back pressure.
> Any comments?>>
>
>. I've not done a
> calculation, but I'll guess that the temp drop from manifold to pipe tip
just
> isn't large enough to affect the internal pressure of the gasses.
>
> Bob
Why does keeping the gas hot lower the pressure? From simple PV=nRT I'd
expect the pressure to drop more upon cooling. Intuitively this argument
seems backwards!
Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Panel lettering - On the Cheep |
I used clear Avery laser label paper. I made my templates in MS Word (for
exact measurements) and printed EVERYTHING for the aircraft. The intention
was to use these as temporary labels but they look so good on my light gray
panel (they would look great on white!) that I left 'em. They have held-up
great on the outside (200 hours) as well.
Truly a custom panel. Go ahead and try it. What do you have to loose...$3.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets are killing me! |
Thanks to all who replied to my original post. Needless too say, I was
more then a little frustrated! Today I brought the HS spars to a local
-6 builder, and he said they were fine. I think half my trouble is that
I'm a perfectionist. I had to replace 2 on the HS front spar, and drill
one out to a D5 rivet. I hacked this one up pretty bad though, and I'm
gonna call Vans in the morning to see if I should put another rivet
right next to it for support. I don't think I'll have to, as the
fuselage attach bolts go through right next to it, but I'll ask anyway.
Before I rivet anything else, I'm gonna rivet the hell out of a scrap
piece. I have 4 scrap HS-810s to practice on!
Once again, thanks.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
Cherry Hill, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Caution - how to misalign R-405PD |
Don't spend two hours with a needle file, just about a minute with a very
steadily and cautiously held Dremel tool will do it for you! One of my most
used tools, and a definite 'must have'.
Von Alexander
RV-4 N107RV
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Bob Reiff wrote:
>
> You may wish to read the Aviation Consumer reviews of the Hotpadd oil
> heater and the Hotbandd cylinder heating system in the March 1996 and
> February 1997 issues. Summaries are in our web site.
>
> Bob Reiff
> RV4 #2646, building fuselage
> Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.excpc.com/reiff
> FAA-PMA aircraft preheat systems, insulated engine covers
>
Gee Bob is there a discount for RV-Listers? ;-)
BTW you guys that put your web site address in your sig,if
just put these little < > at each end of your webb address
it will make a live hyperlink direct to that site. Or is that
a no no on the list?
I am using Reiff as a example <http://www.execpc.com/reiff>
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
Jim Sears wrote:
>
> What really bothers me is that they've done nothing about design
> flaws or vendor errors such as holes not properly drilled in wing spars.
> They seem more interested in new stuff than fixing the old stuff that's
> still being sold at a rapid rate.
>
> Jim Sears
> RV-6A #22220 (Just worked around the electric flap design flaw.)
>
I couldn't agree with you more Jim.... I've found a few myself. There is
one thing that I have been given as sound information on the RV6 and that
there are signs that the skin in some on the bottom is seperating between
it and the firewall. I haven't searched the archive to see if
this has been published. I have added rivets on mine to reduce this
chance. If you look at the spacing on the firewall for the rivets
versus the bottom, you can see possibly why this might happen.
Don Champagne
RV6QB 92% done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket demo flight |
Tom Brandon wrote:
>
>
> Please, what is a rocket?
> Tom Brandon
>
It's a tall slim pointed (Just Kidding)
It's a highly modified RV-4 That goes like heck.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
Qmax LLC wrote:
> Following up with the previous post about in-the-cowl fuel leaks, a
> friend had suggested installing an asbestos like wrap that covers the
> exhaust system.
snipped
> Any comments?>>
>
> Well, yes. Although the idea of wrapping a pipe seems valid for the other
> reasons you stated, e.g. fireproofing and under-cowl cooling, this sounds like
> if any benefit could be found, it would be negligible.
snipped
> If it did, I would expect to see a lot of wrapping on F1 racers and AA-Fuel
> dragsters.
These guys use a superior product. Rather than an asbestos wrap, it is a
coating like that done by Jet Hot Coatings. This is a silver thermal
insulating coating applied by dipping. It's not cheap, either. It
usually cost more than the price of a good set of car headers.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets--lightspeed |
<< Can somebody tell me some distributors that sell the lightspeed sets. >>
Chief and Gulf Coast Avionics have them.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
<34B01E8B.69A6(at)rkymtnhi.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Following up with the previous post about in-the-cowl fuel leaks, a
>friend had suggested installing an asbestos like wrap that covers the
>exhaust system.
>
>the benefits he said were
>1] A smoother running engine with better power, because the wrap will
>allow the exhaust gasses to stay warm longer, thus lowering exhaust
>manifold back pressure.
>
>2] Substantially lower temperatures inside the cowl lessening heat
>damage to sensitive items like the mags, and also lessening the
>likelyhood of vapor lock.
>
>And a 3rd benefit which I add: A fuel leak inside the cowl will be
>less
>likely to drip on the hot pipes, and therefore less likely to cause an
>in flight fire.
>
>Any comments?
>
>
Comment # 1 sounds a little unlikely, comment # 3 might be true.
I know that comment # 2 is true but has a very neg. side effect.
When talking to Larry Vetterman of High Country Exh. a few years ago he
mentioned that the only failure of an exhaust system that he had had at
that time was the result of it having been wrapped with insulating tape.
If I remember correctly... He thought that with all the heat held in the
pipes for there full length that the pipe temp got high enough that it
began eroding the pipe from the inside out. With the thin wall tubing
that we use that can't happen for very long before it fails.
I think he said the system dropped right off the engine.
FYI
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RMI Micromonitor-RF interference |
I finally got my Comant Com antennas installed this weekend, and was able
to finally check out my #1 com. The com works great, but when I transmit, it
drives my RMI Micromonitor nuts! The radio is a Garmin GNC-300 gps/com, and
it's mounted 1.5" above the micromonitor. When I transmit, the egt,cht,oil
temp, oil press, and fuel press displays go nuts. I haven't talked to RMI yet,
as I'm trying to figure out what's wrong. My antenna is mounted on the belly,
just forward of the rear spar. I used RG-58 a/u cable. I've re-checked the
connections, the center conductor isn't shorted to ground, and the antenna
bond to the fuselage checks ok with an ohm meter. Obviously, some rf is
leaking behind the panel, but I don't know how just yet. Has anyone else had
problems with their micromonitors acting up when they transmit?
My Terra radios for the number 2 position are still on backorder (since May
'97), so I'm unable to try out the number 2 radio to determine if it's the
radio or the micromonitor installation that's the culprit.
Scratchin' my head in disgust.
Mark LaBoyteaux
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAIN POOF <RAINPOOF(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Wing skin Plate nuts (?) |
Are plate nuts required on all bottom holes on the inside rib skin with the
2-1/2" spacing. What size plate nuts and what are they used for? I have
already skinned the bottom of the left wing and was ready to rivet the last
rib on the bottom and was curious as to the spacing. If plate nuts are
required, can I install with the skin on?
Jerry Engel
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV9 Prototype.... |
)
>
>Just thought I'd pass on some info on the new RV9. Van flew it into
our
>monthly EAA fly-in breakfast yesterday. He just got it up and flying
(he
>was still wearing a parachute). It is basically a 6A with longer
wings,
>much longer flaps, new cowl, different wing tips and sported a Lyc
O-235
>engine. It is a purpose built trainer and has some good slow flight
>characteristics. After taking off, he flew over mid-field at MCA. He
then
>proceded to show off a very tight turn at MCA. It was quite impressive
and
>somewhat unusual to see an RV flying so slow. The thing just seemed to
be
>hanging there! Bill Benedict said Van has flown it as slow as 43 mph
IAS!
>This was in stark contrast to his brother Jerry's 180 c/s RV4 which
wasn't
>hurting for climb rate. :-)
>
>Anyway, FWIW, just passing on what I'd seen.
>
>Jon Elford
>RV6 #25201
>
Jon,
So, do you think Van's intentions are to certify this version for the
trainer market? I understand it costs big bucks to get a design through
the cert. process...and hope it doesn't end up impacting the cost of our
kits! Better get my fuse kit ordered....*grin*.
Brian Denk
-8 wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A exhaust supports |
Would be interested to know how some of you 6A builders installed the "cross"
support on the ehaust pipes. I have got the two pieces that are bolted to the
oil sump installed; having a problem with the piece that is supposed to go
from one pipe to the other. The center cowl support assembly seems to be in
the way.
Any suggestions?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
<19980104.210853.11142.0.rvpilot(at)juno.com>
Bill:
Lycoming measures oil temperature at the engine inlet. (After it flows
through the cooler. A good cooler should lower the temp at least 40
degrees) 210 F in level flight and reduced power is too hot. I have
seen 255 F. This is above the 245 redline. Vapor lock starts to occur at
250 F. The vapor lock bothers me more than the oil temperature. My fuel
system follows best aviation practices. The only change to be made to
the fuel system will be a heat shroud on the fuel pump with cool air
ducted to it. Too busy to install it. All of these temperatures are
above the published Lycoming recommended values.
As for exhaust wrap, Frank's 180+ HP RV-3 has had it on for over 3 years
now. (several hundred hours) He has seen no cracks. Several years ago,
he was the fastest RV at Sun n Fun. If my exhaust falls apart, I will
buy a new one. It is time to put the old wives tales (pilot stories)
what to not have any substance to rest. IMHO: I do not recommend
mounting the oil cooler on the firewall and using a 3" SCAT duct for
cooling. This installation appears to run 20 - 30 degrees F warmer than
an installation that mounts the oil cooler on the left rear baffle. I
have not been able to find anyone else to talk to that has mounted the
oil cooler on the firewall with a 3" duct. A friend will make first
flight in his -6 later this month. This will give a comparison since he
copied my installation. I will fly chase to make sure he does not have
any problems.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
writes:
>
>Gary, If 210 degree oil temp.is the highest you have seen on a 100
>degree day, i don't think that you have a problem here especially
>since your equipment is well calibrated. True, this is a little higher
>than desirable but Lycomings redline is 245 and you know that that is
>a little conservative. I would be a little more concerned about the
>lower temps. Better to keep it above 180 to boil off any water . I
>remember reading
>somewhere that wraping the exhaust pipes promotes cracking. I have no
>experience along these lines but it is something to consider.
>Regards, Bill Davis RV4 N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownTool <BrownTool(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheetmetal Tool Website |
I would like to personally invite everyone to visit our brand new website
featuring our complete catalog at:
http://www.browntool.com <------ visit and bookmark
this site !!!
We have worked out the bugs and you can now view pictures and descriptions of
all of our products from the comfort of your home 24 hours a day, seven days a
week. Ask your questions or place orders right on-line!
I would appreciate any comments (good or bad) that you might have about our
new website.
Thanks to everyone who helped make 1997 our best year ever! From all of us at
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co., we wish you a 1998 full of successful building
and great flying.
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
Bethany, Oklahoma
1-800-587-3883
BrownTool(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
<19980104.210853.11142.0.rvpilot(at)juno.com> <19980104.223303.3678.0.gasobek(at)juno.com>
gasobek(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
> Bill:
>
> Lycoming measures oil temperature at the engine inlet. (After it flows
> through the cooler. A good cooler should lower the temp at least 40
> degrees) 210 F in level flight and reduced power is too hot. I have
> seen 255 F. This is above the 245 redline. Vapor lock starts to occur at
> 250 F. The vapor lock bothers me more than the oil temperature. My fuel
> system follows best aviation practices. The only change to be made to
> the fuel system will be a heat shroud on the fuel pump with cool air
> ducted to it. Too busy to install it. All of these temperatures are
> above the published Lycoming recommended values.
>
> As for exhaust wrap, Frank's 180+ HP RV-3 has had it on for over 3 years
> now. (several hundred hours) He has seen no cracks. Several years ago,
> he was the fastest RV at Sun n Fun. If my exhaust falls apart, I will
> buy a new one. It is time to put the old wives tales (pilot stories)
> what to not have any substance to rest. IMHO: I do not recommend
> mounting the oil cooler on the firewall and using a 3" SCAT duct for
> cooling. This installation appears to run 20 - 30 degrees F warmer than
> an installation that mounts the oil cooler on the left rear baffle. I
> have not been able to find anyone else to talk to that has mounted the
> oil cooler on the firewall with a 3" duct. A friend will make first
> flight in his -6 later this month. This will give a comparison since he
> copied my installation. I will fly chase to make sure he does not have
> any problems.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>
Gary
Two things, first I have personally seen two rvs that had exhaust wrap
and seen how corroded they were when the owners took the wrap off, so
I would not call it a old wives tail. I would never wrap a exhaust on
a aircraft just because if it is cracking I want to be able to see it.
Second My hanger partner has his cooler mounted to the firewall
with 3" duct and his runs the same temp as mine which is mounted
to the forward baffling left side in front of # 2 cyl. We both run
to cool, on 40 deg.day it is hard to get passed 150 deg. and I have
a oil cooler door installed so does he.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
>A friend had suggested installing an asbestos-like wrap that covers the
>exhaust system.............
This was discussed several years ago and the consensus was it is a bad idea.
Why? The auto racing crowd are usually wrapping mild steel pipes where we
in aircraft building are wrapping stainless. The difference is that
stainless is much LESS tolerant of not cooling off and will either burn
through or crack. There have been several RVs that were wrapped and
suffered exaust pipe failures. One of those ideas that seems like a good one
but turns out to be not so hot (!). Check the archives.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Mooney Engine and Prop Useable? |
I came across an older mooney that may become available for a very good price.
Extensive corrosion has made the aircraft unairworthy. I would like to buy it
for the engine and prop. Question; Can the Hartzell prop be used in my RV-8,
or is the diameter too large? I know I can use the engine (mid time), but
don't know anything about using the prop. Help?
Von Alexander
RV-8#544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170 <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chevy Vortec Weight |
I think some of the "advertised" weights that have been bandied about have
been a little misleading. Most of the weights I have seen have been stated by
someone that has something to sell by telling that the weights are "just
slightly more than a Lycoming". BTW are you using the cast iron heads?
Sounds like you are further along than me, I am still grappling with designing
the mount
Regards, Merle Miller RV-4 Vortec
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | measuring pro-seal |
I used a simple postage balance. Made small batches. Cost of the balance
was one U.S. dollar.
Good Luck,
Bob
---
"The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's
and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airframe cracks |
Hi GV,
Noticed your post on the EAR material, thanks. Also, happened to note you
cite a gross weight (Untility) of 1900 lbs. I have just completed an Mazda
powered RV-6A (Awaiting Inspection) and my Gross weight came out to 1800 Lbs
(actually, it came out with two 170 individuals, full fuel load, and 62 lbs
baggage to 1800 Lbs). Was wondering, what effects on climb, airspeed, other
things you may have noticed with your higher gross weight.
Ed
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
Vanremog wrote:
>
>
>
> prop. My cg is smack on 22% MAC with pilot only and 25% MAC at 1900 lbs
> utility gross weight (incl 100 lbs of baggage).
>
> Yes, this is problematic for those with fixed pitch wood props and no flywheel
> weight or Landoll balancer up front, but I think the taildraggers in
> particular can benefit from the foam installation.
>
> -GV
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com (Stephen Paul Johnson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender & #8 countersinking |
You wrote:
>
>
>G'day folks,
>
>Two items for your perusal:
>
>I've been having quite a battle with machine countersinking the wing
>spar flanges for the tank attachment screws (#8s going through the
tank
>skin, spar flange and into nutplates).
Here's what I did. I obtained 1/8" x 1" aluminum from Home Depot and
made pieces that fit behind the holes in the spar using the spar holes
as drill guides. I then enlarged the nutplate holes to #19 and used a
#8 countersink running slowly in an electric drill. The aluminum
cutting fluid that Cleaveland sells helps here. The 1/8" aluminum
pieces can be used as drill guides when you get to putting nutplates on
the bottom side of the spar.
>
>Secondly, the fuel senders...are they mounted in place with AN3-3A
bolts
>into K1000 (#10) nutplates? I don't see any reference to hardware
called
>out on the plans.
I used #8 screws and nutplates here since the predrilled holes in the
access plate come drilled to #19.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Orndorff G <OrndorffG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
Wrapping exhaust pipes has been tried for years, however you should talk to
the pipe maker. One side effect of wrapping you do not want is that it may
burn the pipes up by keeping the heat in and not letting them cool. Wrapping
pipes in drag cars work , but they only run a couple of minute at a time not
hours. Food for thought.
.....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Orndorff G <OrndorffG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy covers |
Andy,
Becki and I have a canopy cover for Rv6 cost $150 that we thick you would
be pleased with. For more info on it please call 817-439-3280 or write....
george Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Rimbold <rimbold(at)flinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate vacuum |
Jon Elford wrote:
>
> Most Mercedes pumps that I saw were driven off a cam mechanism that also
> drives the injection pump. This is actually inside the engine. The
> Japanese diesels I have seen, in specific Nissan, drove their pumps off the
> rear of the alternator. The alternator's armature shaft had a set of
> splines out the back of the case and a small cast iron vane type pump bolted
> to the back. These pumps were quite trouble free in my experience. Some
> long out-lasting the engines they were bolted to. Food for thought.
I stopped by my local Isuzu dealership the other day to check on just
such
an alternator/vacuum pump combination. Somebody here on the list
mentioned
that the diesel Isuzu Troopers had this. The alternator and vacuum pump
are
sold as separate items, and can be matched to the particular load
requirements
of the installation. The parts guy lifted the alternator and estimated
that
it weighed about 10 lbs. The vacuum pump is about 2 lbs. I don't have
any
information about the maximum amount of vacuum it can create, nor how
much
air it can flow.
The cost was $348 for the alternator and $273 for the vacuum pump.
How does this compare to an aircraft alternator and vacuum pump?
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Rimbold <rimbold(at)flinet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine heaters (now hyperlink nomenclature) |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> > Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.excpc.com/reiff
> BTW you guys that put your web site address in your sig,if
> just put these little < > at each end of your webb address
> it will make a live hyperlink direct to that site. Or is that
> a no no on the list?
> I am using Reiff as a example <http://www.execpc.com/reiff>
I read my email with Netscape, and it shows a live hyperlink for
both of these nomenclatures.
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
> and I have a oil cooler door installed so does he.
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
Jerry where did you locate your door? Exit? Did it cover all or
part? I'm at that stage is why I ask.
Happy building & Merry Flying!
denny-->> RV-6
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micromonitor-RF interference |
> I finally got my Comant Com antennas installed this weekend, and was able
>to finally check out my #1 com. The com works great, but when I transmit, it
>drives my RMI Micromonitor nuts! The radio is a Garmin GNC-300 gps/com, and
>it's mounted 1.5" above the micromonitor. When I transmit, the egt,cht,oil
>temp, oil press, and fuel press displays go nuts. I haven't talked to RMI yet,
>as I'm trying to figure out what's wrong. My antenna is mounted on the belly,
>just forward of the rear spar. I used RG-58 a/u cable. I've re-checked the
>connections, the center conductor isn't shorted to ground, and the antenna
>bond to the fuselage checks ok with an ohm meter. Obviously, some rf is
>leaking behind the panel, but I don't know how just yet. Has anyone else had
>problems with their micromonitors acting up when they transmit?
>
Mark,
The carb temp on my micro monitor goes to -19 C whenever I transmit. All
other functions work just fine. My set up is as follows: Comant bent whip
antenna under the belly & King KX-125 nav-com mounted in the same stack as
the engine monitor. I'd also be interested to find out what causes this.
Take care.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low buck vacuum source |
>>My experience with Mercedes diesels tells me that it probably generated
>>above 10" of vacuum when new.
>Most Mercedes pumps that I saw were driven off a cam mechanism that also
>drives the injection pump.
>The Japanese diesels I have seen, in specific Nissan, drove their pumps
off the
>rear of the alternator.
>Jon Elford
>RV6 #25201
The issue is whether or not the small displacement pump on the automotive
diesels (pick your favorite brand) will pull enough *VOLUME* to maintain
4-6" of vacuum when attached to 2 aircraft gyros. The original poster for
this thread tried one of these pumps and got low vacuum readings and slow
spinning gyros. Its easy to pull 15-20" vacuum against a closed system.
Its not so easy to maintain a 6" differential against what is essentially a
rather large hole. The flow through the gyros requires more total volume
than most small automotive pumps are likely to be able to flow. The vacuum
"regulator" is actually a controlled leak through a needle valve, and we
only call it a regulator because it is adjustable (on the ground).
In the automotive use for these type pumps there is almost no flow, and
usually a rather large (several liter) resevoir to maintain vacuum when the
momentary demand exceeds the pump capacity.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender & #8 countersinking |
Hi Brian,
You will have better luck if you clamp another piece of metal with an
eighth inch hole behind the one you are countersinking. This acts as a
guide so you can stop the chattering.
Cecil
writes:
>
>G'day folks,
>
>Two items for your perusal:
>
>I've been having quite a battle with machine countersinking the wing
>spar flanges for the tank attachment screws (#8s going through the
>tank
>skin, spar flange and into nutplates). Once the hole widens up larger
>
>than the pilot of the countersink...chatter sets in.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Mooney Engine and Prop Useable? |
I came across an older mooney that may become available for a very good price.
Extensive corrosion has made the aircraft unairworthy. I would like to buy it
for the engine and prop. Question; Can the Hartzell prop be used in my RV-8,
or is the diameter too large? I know I can use the engine (mid time), but
don't know anything about using the prop. Help?
Von Alexander
RV-8#544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
Have a set of Vetterman 4's with Jet Hot alum coating on my 4. Haven't noticed
any
improvements except it really looks good....almost like chrome!!! cost was not
to
bad...You can find the address in Hot Rod mag.
Jim Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)adobe.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
I would call DuPont's technical support line and ask as this
can lead to a big mess.
You can contact DuPont at 800-338-7668
-Jeff
RV-8 #563
Suwanne, GA
>
>My local body shop man says to paint directly over Vari-prime, but the spec
>sheet says I should vari-prime, then prime, then paint. Which is correct? I
>don't want to prime twice, too much weight.
>Von Alexander
>MAlexan533(at)aol.com
>RV-8 #544
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Am sending this to the entire RV-List even though it is a little on the
long side as I believe others can benefit from the following experience.
I had a rather exciting experience that occurred while refueling my
RV-6A. I have a Mazda 13B as a power plant using auto fuel. Not having
auto fuel at the airport, I have been transporting it in a 5 gallon
plastic container (approved for auto fuel) and using a funnel to pour
the gasoline into the wing tank. Sensitive to the risks of static
electricity, I always "grounded" (I know - I question whether you can
truly "ground" a plastic container) the plastic container against the
airframe prior to pouring in the gasoline. I have refuel the aircraft
many times before using this method (as well numerous lawn mowers, weed
wackers, etc). I had hauled the aircraft out of the hangar and had it
sitting in the middle of the tarmac in front of the hanger and had
commenced to refuel.
Well, this time it happened. As I was approximately half-way through
pouring from the five gallon container into the funnel (the plastic
funnel is a very wide mouth with a filter cartridge in its center- used
to quickly fill race cars) the fireworks started. The gasoline ignited
with a "Swoosh" and I found myself holding a flaming funnel as well as
the five gallon container which had flames coming from its opening.
Needless to say, things got very exciting and busy in a hurry. As I
reacted to the flames going off, I swung the container away ,which was
in my right hand, removed the flaming funnel from the wing tank opening
with my left hand. In the process I sloshed some flaming gasoline onto
the wing and tarmac. And flames were now also coming from the opening
of the wing tank. So by quick count, I had flames coming out of the
wing tank, some burning on the wing, a patch burning on the tarmac, a
flaming funnel as well as the 5 gallon container on fire. Did I say
things got exciting in a hurry? I immediately move the flaming
container about 12-15 feet away from the aircraft and set it down,
quickly move the flaming funnel about 5 feet from the container and laid
it down.. Immediately dashed to the plane and placed the fuel cap into
the tank opening stuffing out that fire, smothered the fire on the wing,
December 30, 1997 - January 05, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-dz