RV-Archive.digest.vol-ea
January 05, 1998 - January 12, 1998
ran back to the container and placed its lid on the flaming opening
smothering that fire, moved the still flaming funnel further away,
smother the fire on the tarmac and then returned to smother the funnel.
Finally, all fires are extinguished and I take time for a breath.
Wasn't timing myself as I was somewhat distracted at the moment, but
believe the entire event from ignition to all flames out was around
30-45 seconds (could be wrong about the time, but not by much). Old men
can move quickly if motivated properly.
Yes, I did have a fire extinguisher, but had neglected to take it out of
the car and didn't feel I had the time to dash to the car to get it.. I
also have a small Halon fire extinguisher mounted between the seats of
aircraft - but, again distance and flames were between it and me.
Won't make that mistake again. Also, I will never use a plastic
container again, but will use a metal one with a little cable attached
that I can ground to the aircraft. I will also not use a funnel, but
will probably use one of the rotary pumps with hose and nozzle grounded.
So the good news is no damage to me or the aircraft and a much wiser me.
So, while it had not ever happened before, I quickly found out that one
time is one time too many.
For your consideration
Regards
Ed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff J. Dingbaum" <dingbaum(at)hep.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Invitation To All To Join The RV SQUADRON |
On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Scott Johnson wrote:
> I found something on the internet you may be interested in. There is a very
> realistic flight simulator game (fighter ace) on the internet at
> www.zone.com. In my opinion, its significantly more fun than Microsoft
> flight simulator 98. If you haven't seen this yet, you don't know what your
> missing.
I checked this out and it doesn't support Windows 3.1, Macs, or Unix
boxes. It also doesn't support any browser other than Internet explorer.
My curiosity got the better of me because most companies will design their
web site to accept the number one browser - Netscape, as well as Explorer.
A quick check of the DNS records show that the zone.com domain is owned
by Microsoft! Although I haven't seen it, I would venture to guess that
it is based on their flight simulator program. Either that or it will be
an upcoming product.
Jeff Dingbaum
dingbaum(at)hep.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine heaters |
In a message dated 1/4/98 11:33:01 PM, you wrote:
>> You may wish to read the Aviation Consumer reviews of the Hotpadd oil
>> heater and the Hotbandd cylinder heating system in the March 1996 and
>> February 1997 issues. Summaries are in our web site.
>>
Nobody else is chiming in so I will. The Hot Padd heater is an excellent
product, a very complete kit with instructions and the very best solution to
engine preheat, IMHO. I use it even on warm days due to the beneficial effect
of preheating the oil. It is lightweight, easy to install, and cheap,
considering the elegant design and manufacure. I have found no down side to
it. It is a winner. None of you should be without one! I got mine from
Van's. Some say you can get a lot cheaper version from the auto stores, but I
stuck with the guy who tested and certified his, with dual thermostats.
Reiff seems too modest to brag directly, but I've never talked to him.
I don't work for Vans, Reiff or anyone else, just highly opinionated, and
impressed with this product.
D. Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAVOY INTL <SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com> |
"unsubscribe" savoyintl(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A Sliding Canopy Skirts |
<< Could you send me information about your canopy skirt for the RV-6? Also,
how would I go about ordering it from you? >>
Gary-
It starts as a 3"W x 5"L x .032" thk piece of 2024-T3 aluminum sheet
(protected on both sides with plastic). I form it in a hydraulic press using
forming dies so that a tented wedge about 1.375"W x 2.5"L rises up to about
.375"H at the trailing edge.
It is easy to install at the top butt joint after you make your slider rear
skirts.
Send $10 to Gary VanRemortel, 1963 Badgerwood Ln, Milpitas, CA 95035 (this
includes domestic packaging and shipment).
I've sold a little over fifty of the little devils so far. They are going
fast and I'm not sure how many more I will make, so I recommend you order now
while I have stock.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
<< Was wondering, what effects on climb, airspeed, other
things you may have noticed with your higher gross weight. >>
I haven't flown it yet, but I will not normally fly at the 1900 lb gross
weight. I was advised by certain individuals in our Chapter that it is
illegal to fly an a/c over it's published gross weight (except in Alaska where
a 15% allowance over gross is routine), so I backed into the 1900 lb number by
taking the 1375 lb aerobatic gross weight for the RV-6A times the 6g load
limit = 8250 and divided it by 4.4g (utility load limit) = 1875 and rounded up
to 1900 lb just to be sure that I would not be out of cg range at an
outrageous weight (everything at max capacity).
My empty weight is 1160 lbs (I am fully equipped with O-360 c/s, wing leveler,
gyros, insulation and included certain items in the empty weight that some
others consider baggage, such as fire extinguisher, ELT, floor pads). A
published 1900 lb gross allows the use of full fuel @ 228 lbs, 100 lb of
baggage, a pilot/passenger weight of 412 lbs and the cg is still comfortably
in the acceptable range in all conditions.
I intend to fly normally at 1775 lb two-up max.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170 <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
<< One side effect of wrapping you do not want is that it may
burn the pipes up by keeping the heat in and not letting them cool. >>
I think if you use stainless steel pipes you will eliminate that concern. It
will stand more heat.
Regards, Merle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender & #8 countersinking |
> I've been having quite a battle with machine countersinking the wing
> spar flanges for the tank attachment screws (#8s going through the tank
> skin, spar flange and into nutplates). Once the hole widens up larger
> than the pilot of the countersink...chatter sets in.
[snip]
The trick here is to drill a #19 hole in a piece of .063 or thicker, then
securely clamp the piece, with the holes aligned, behind the part being
c-sunk. This acts as a backing plate to guide the countersink pilot. This
is not a bad idea any time you're c-sinking .040 or thinner as the pilot
has a tendency to enlarge the hole otherwise. (Look closely -- the pilot
has a cutting edge on it!)
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: FAA requirements and "assistance" |
>I'm really not interested in flouting the law. I'm interested in learning
>what I can about the airplane as I'm building it or actively helping an
>experienced man build it. I'd like a repairman's certificate but only if
>the FAA approves it knowing all the facts.
Sadly, if the FAA "requirements" were clearly documented in words
uniformly interpreted by all regulators and the regulated, it would
be a wonderous milestone in history . . .
I sat in on several discussions at OSH last year where experienced,
if not learned representitives from both the regulating and regulated
side of the fence were present. At that time, the "spirit and intent"
was deduced to mean that a "builder" should be capable of accomplishing
any and all operations involving future repairs or modifications to
the airplane for which he/she seeks a repairman's certificate. The
watchword was "education".
It was agreed that the "spirit and intent" was satisfied if the builder
was intimately involved in all phases of the construction, received
instruction in the necessary skills and demonstrated some benefits
of that instruction. The 51% rule was considered essentially
useless without the foregoing clarification . . . one could put in
51% of total hours just sanding and painting an airplane and learn
virtually NOTHING about how to maintain it. On the other hand, a builder
might personally accomplish less than 25% of total hours of labor on
an airplane while receiving what amounts to more hands-on training
than a graduate A/P mechanic.
This reasoning supports the concept of builder assistance centers.
Consider if you will the possibility of driving up to the
door of a BAC with kit crated in the back of your truck. For the next
30 days, you're humping 10-16 hours a day with the assitance of lots
of folk with experience, tools, materials and skills to do a really
whippy job of putting your airplane together. The goal of this activity
is two-fold . . . put the airplane together in timely fashion and
provide the "builder" with intensive, hands-on training.
Everyone agreed the foregoing concept should produce high quality
airplanes and persons educated in their maintenance.
Given the latitude with which the rules may be interpreted,
working closely with the bureaucrat who will ultimately sign your
certificate is a good move. When documenting your construction,
make sure you're a star performer and not a director. No matter
how many hands work on your airplane, convincing your bureaucrat
that you can "do it all" is more important than keeping a personal
time sheet on the project.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> ... I bought clecos from Avery twice. The first 300 3/32"
> were great and slid into the small #41 holes OK. The second 150 were all a
> bit bigger and wouldn't fit in #41 but did fit in #40. Can't send them back
> if they will do exactly as designed.
I don't remember the exact details but Bill Benedict at Van's once told
me they had a problem like with a batch of clecos -- it turned out that
there is a slightly different size for an airliner company (Boeing?) and
they got mixed up. You might want to check for that. Maybe call Bill and
ask him about it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnes, Eric" <eric.barnes(at)tandem.com> |
| Subject: | Mooney Engine and Prop Useable? |
Hi Von,
I can't imagine a tricycle Mooney (the gear seems so short!) having more
clearance than the RV-8 taildragger. One thing to consider though is
the speed at which the airplane operates. The twist of the prop is
directly related to the operational speed, even CS. I'd talk to
Hartzell first.
Also, suggest you read the Kitplanes recent Wind Tunnel column on props
(last 2-3 months). Then, let me know what you find out! I'd like to do
the same for my -8 when the time comes. ;- )
EB #80131
-----Original Message-----
From: MAlexan533 [SMTP:MAlexan533(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 07:42
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Mooney Engine and Prop Useable?
I came across an older mooney that may become available for a
very good price.
Extensive corrosion has made the aircraft unairworthy. I would
like to buy it
for the engine and prop. Question; Can the Hartzell prop be used
in my RV-8,
or is the diameter too large? I know I can use the engine (mid
time), but
don't know anything about using the prop. Help?
Von Alexander
RV-8#544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps |
RV-4 Oil cooler: I mounted mine BEHIND the baffling on the left side mounted
on this nifty bracket set-up that attaches it to several places on the
engine mount. The cooler is fed by a two (2) inch duct from the rear baffle
and into a nifty airflow box, the rear of which is a heater vent control
(the 45 degree one from Vans) which is controlable from the cockpit. I have
had to block off 80% of the intake (even with the gate always closed [!]) to
get the temp above 160.... on these cool Colorado days. Today it was 7C
(44F) at altitude and at 2400rpm, oil was 170. It is a standard size
cooler. CHT doesn't get much above 300. I have a pretty good seal on the
baffle/cowling; something to check if temps are running high.
Flight testing going well, in spurts (weather, etc.). I'll give
reports/ideas soon.
Michael
RV-4 232 Suzie Q
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts |
> Van's instruction manual shows pictures of Lord mounts (but supposedly
> applicable to Barry mounts), and says put the fat washer in this place to
> provide spacing. Well, the Barry mounts did not come with a fat washer.
Hmmm... Mine did, one washer per mount. I installed them per the plans --
engine side on the bottom two, and bolt head side on the top two, with two of
Van's large (but not as large as the ones that came with the mounts)
washers on the bolt head side on the bottom.
> On the other hand, there are about 8 large washers that Van's ships with
> the engine mounting bolts, and 2 or 3 of these could do the job. I wonder
> if that's what they are for?
I believe the extra (6) washers that come with Van's kit are for shimming
in case you want to or have to shim your engine to change where the
spinner ends up. I think some people do this to correct the "sag" that
sometimes happens once the engine has run for a while.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
<http://www.edt.com/homewing>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | countersinking wing spar for fuel tank dimples |
A piloted #30 c/s will do fine in the #8 nutplates, as it does in the fwd row
of screwholes. Don't go too deep, as this will cause a sunken dimple and a
puckered tank skin when the screw is tightened. Make a test pc from 032 with a
#8 dimple in it, and c/s until it will fit tight against the spar mat'l and
not wallow in the c/s area. This test pc method will work in other
applications also.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system coating |
Fellas:
A local owner had Jet-Hott do his pipes. Two things happened wrong: The
company used what thet said was a lower temp coating, as it burned off! They
are re-coating the equipment (to a/c specs) now. Second: This coating system
appears to work so good that his heater was nonfunctional. Who would have
thought that??! I suggest you ask 'em to tape off the heat shroud area, at
least.
Fiberglass wrap: A local Mustang II owner used this stuff, and he boasted of
v high EGT readings (this equals lotsa power??). When his exhaust FELL OFF
(spotted on pre-flight), we found the you could squeeze it to crumbs with your
fingers. This was a mild steel 4-pipe system. I'd stay away from this
approach, even with Stainless steel.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Kit for Sale |
I was the first person to have an RV8 tail kit in hand - I drove to Vans and
picked it up uncrated. I'm now at the stage where I'm going to have to put
her up for sale. Time (and relationship pressures) combined with the fact
that I no longer have a garage are making this more heartache than fun.
Here are the details:
RV8 kit #80047 tail & wing kits for sale:
* Tail kit is complete except for fiberglass tips
* Left wing is completely framed up, top skins riveted on, everything
primed. All flaps & ailerons are finished waiting for rigging.
* I think workmanship is high quality - it passed an EAA Tech inspection
with flying colors
* Every single aluminum part has been primed with 2 part epoxy primer. All
except for anodized and steel parts were prepared with alumaprep and alodyne
first. This is a primer geek's dream
* Comes with some additional parts: Van's fuel pickup tubes (one regular &
one inverted), Van's fuel level senders, Van's wiring kit (was $180), Gretz
chrome heated pitot tube mount, and a new chrome heated pitot tube with
static source.
I've also documented a few hundred building hours. Avemco insurance pays
$15/hour of logged building time in the event of a loss.
The whole kit is set up in a hangar/shop in the Seattle area. I'd be
willing to spend some hours showing what I've learned in the way of RV
construction to whomever is going to buy it. I'd like to get $5000 for the
kits and parts listed above. This is over $1000 less than the materials
cost alone and factors in zero for my building time.
Let me know if you'd like pictures, etc.
Michael Angiulo
mikeang(at)microsoft.com
425-936-1412
Thanks,
-Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
<< Well, this time it happened. As I was approximately half-way through
pouring from the five gallon container into the funnel (the plastic
funnel is a very wide mouth with a filter cartridge in its center- used
to quickly fill race cars) the fireworks started. The gasoline ignited
with a "Swoosh" and I found myself holding a flaming funnel as well as
the five gallon container which had flames coming from its opening.
>>
GEEZ ED!!! Are you lucky or what! I've been using those plastic 5 gal
containers for years, with no indication of static. I also knew in the back of
my mind that there was a reason I push my bird outside before fueling. This is
a pretty dang good reason, I'd say. Whew.
I'm glad you're OK!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
>> while refueling my RV-6A. <<
Thanks Ed:
I have a friend that did the same thing on his Luscom. His face got
burned real bad but he is alive. I fuel with a 55 gal fiberglass tank &
12 gal/min pump. I have never put a ground in the tank to the truck or
aircraft. I do ground the metal tip to the exhaust prior to filling. I
keep the nozzle touching the metal ring in the bonanza while fueling. I
think the ignition starts from the static of the flowing gas. I guess my
question to the list is Should I ground the fuel to the truck, the truck
to the plane, & the nozzle to the truck???
Don Jordan~6A wings
donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnes, Eric" <eric.barnes(at)tandem.com> |
Hi Gary,
Didn't get a chance to fly out this weekend, with the weather and winds.
Hope the weather is favorable for you shortly after you're inspection.
If you don't have access to a web page and want to post some picture of
your plane, let me know. I don't have a digital camera, or scanner, but
if you can get jpegs, I have a place for them. Your plane is too nice
for people not to see. ;- )
EB
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog [SMTP:Vanremog(at)aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:07
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gross Weight
<< Was wondering, what effects on climb, airspeed, other
things you may have noticed with your higher gross weight. >>
I haven't flown it yet, but I will not normally fly at the 1900
lb gross
weight. I was advised by certain individuals in our Chapter
that it is
illegal to fly an a/c over it's published gross weight (except
in Alaska where
a 15% allowance over gross is routine), so I backed into the
1900 lb number by
taking the 1375 lb aerobatic gross weight for the RV-6A times
the 6g load
limit = 8250 and divided it by 4.4g (utility load limit) = 1875
and rounded up
to 1900 lb just to be sure that I would not be out of cg range
at an
outrageous weight (everything at max capacity).
My empty weight is 1160 lbs (I am fully equipped with O-360 c/s,
wing leveler,
gyros, insulation and included certain items in the empty weight
that some
others consider baggage, such as fire extinguisher, ELT, floor
pads). A
published 1900 lb gross allows the use of full fuel @ 228 lbs,
100 lb of
baggage, a pilot/passenger weight of 412 lbs and the cg is still
comfortably
in the acceptable range in all conditions.
I intend to fly normally at 1775 lb two-up max.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Winter Oil Temps more questions |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
> I do not recommend
>mounting the oil cooler on the firewall and using a 3" SCAT duct for
>cooling. This installation appears to run 20 - 30 degrees F warmer
>than an installation that mounts the oil cooler on the left rear
>baffle. I have not been able to find anyone else to talk to that has
>mounted the oil cooler on the firewall with a 3" duct.
Apparently, there is more to this than just where the cooler is located.
My oil cooler is mounted on the firewall with a 3" duct using Van's kit.
All of my equipment is calibrated. I have a cockpit actuated door on the
bottom of the cooler that can fully block, or fully open the airflow.
The highest temp I have ever recorded with the door fully open is 190.
This includes trips to PHX in the middle of summer, and full gross
extended climb operations from a 6000' field @ 95deg (9500'+DA). I have
to leave the block-off door partially closed during most operations, and
I have to block off 2/3 of the 3" inlet and fully close the door when
the OAT is below 50 to keep the temp at 180.
I have a friend locally that uses the exact same setup with very similar
results. So there is obviously more to this than where the oil cooler is
located. I can guarantee that moving my oil cooler to the left rear
baffle would not lower my temps by 20-30 degrees. I think there are a
lot of other factors at work here.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A exhaust supports |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Would be interested to know how some of you 6A builders installed the
>"cross" support on the ehaust pipes. I have got the two pieces that are
>bolted to the oil sump installed; having a problem with the piece that
is supposed
>to go from one pipe to the other. The center cowl support assembly seems
to
>be in the way. Any suggestions?
I used a piece of steel tube about 1/4" in diameter. Flattened the two
ends and drilled a hole for a -3 bolt that attaches it to little "L"
shaped brackets on the pipes. I drilled a hole about 3/4" in diameter in
the cowl support for it to pass through. I don't think it needs to be
even that big, but I didn't want the tube to rub. There isn't a whole
lot of axial movement in this area.
I also wasn't crazy about those pieces coming off of the oil sump, so I
used Volvo Exhaust bracket donuts to attach the pipes to the engine mount
tubes near the nose gear mount.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh/Lakeland Vendor? |
Lousmith wrote:
>
>
> Last year at Sun-N-Fun, I purchased a leather cow hide to cover the seats in
> my RV-8. The vendor that I bought this from is always at Lakeland and Oshkosh
> in a tent with misc. AN hardware. I have since decided that I would like to
> cover the side walls with the leather also. If anyone has done business with
> this person, and has a phone number or name, I would greatly appreciate you
> forwarding this info. to me. I paid cash at the time of the sale and do not
> have a name or number for this vendor. Thanks again for any help in this
> matter.
>
> Regards,
> Louis Smith
> lousmith(at)aol.com
> RV8 N801RV #80126
> Waiting on finish kit
>
Louis
How much was the leather? I'm getting ready to have DJ Lauritsen(sp)
make my interior package, and leather would be nice$$$$$$$$.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
Vanremog wrote:
> I haven't flown it yet, but I will not normally fly at the 1900 lb gross
> weight. I was advised by certain individuals in our Chapter that it is
> illegal to fly an a/c over it's published gross weight (except in Alaska where
> a 15% allowance over gross is routine),
Your RV gross weight is whatever YOU publish it to be.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micromonitor-RF interference |
MLaboyteau wrote:
>
>
> I finally got my Comant Com antennas installed this weekend, and was able
> to finally check out my #1 com. The com works great, but when I transmit, it
> drives my RMI Micromonitor nuts! The radio is a Garmin GNC-300 gps/com, and
> it's mounted 1.5" above the micromonitor. When I transmit, the egt,cht,oil
> temp, oil press, and fuel press displays go nuts. I haven't talked to RMI yet,
> as I'm trying to figure out what's wrong. My antenna is mounted on the belly,
> just forward of the rear spar. I used RG-58 a/u cable. I've re-checked the
> connections, the center conductor isn't shorted to ground, and the antenna
> bond to the fuselage checks ok with an ohm meter. Obviously, some rf is
> leaking behind the panel, but I don't know how just yet. Has anyone else had
> problems with their micromonitors acting up when they transmit?
>
> My Terra radios for the number 2 position are still on backorder (since May
> '97), so I'm unable to try out the number 2 radio to determine if it's the
> radio or the micromonitor installation that's the culprit.
> Scratchin' my head in disgust.
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
Mark
I was talking to Ron at RMI the other day trying to clear up a few
problems and he said to use triax instead of coax because it's signal
leakage is a lot lower. Now does anyone know where I can get triax,
nobody in Tallahassee sells it.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets are killing me! |
Make sure that the work piece is held steady. Let the rivet gun do the work.
Just hold the bucking bar lightly against the shop end of the rivet. Do not
push on the bucking bar and use only a light pressure on the gun. I teach
riveting and find that the biggest problem that builders have is that they try
to set the rivet without the gun; that is, they push too hard on the gun and
way too hard on the bucking bar. Make sure that you have a cleco on both
sides of the rivet that you are driving. I recommend that you cleco every
other hole and then rivet between them leaving the clecos in place until all
of the rivets are set. Then remove all of the clecos at one time rivet those
holes. Lighten up a bit with the pressures and things will go much better. I
recommend that all builders practice driving at least a couple of dozen rivets
on some scrap held in a vice before they ever drive one on the plane.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body? |
I have just such a spring on my Ellison for the mixture and I also have one
for the throttle. Just in case.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lauritsen <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy covers |
The canopy cover that Van's sells is the same one that we offer. If is very light
weight and completely waterproof, yet it does breathe so it will dry out if
you put it on wet. Weight <3lbs. As with everything we carry, if you are not
satisfied we will give you a refund.
End of commercial :)
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, IA 50035
Orders: 1-800-368-1822
Questions: 1-515-432-6794
Fax: 1-515-432-7804
e-mail: clevtool(at)tdsi.net
web: www.cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system coating |
Mlfred wrote:
>
>
> Fellas:
> A local owner had Jet-Hott do his pipes. Two things happened wrong: The
> company used what thet said was a lower temp coating, as it burned off! They
> are re-coating the equipment (to a/c specs) now. Second: This coating system
> appears to work so good that his heater was nonfunctional. Who would have
> thought that??! I suggest you ask 'em to tape off the heat shroud area, at
> least.
>
> Fiberglass wrap: A local Mustang II owner used this stuff, and he boasted of
> v high EGT readings (this equals lotsa power??). When his exhaust FELL OFF
> (spotted on pre-flight), we found the you could squeeze it to crumbs with your
> fingers. This was a mild steel 4-pipe system. I'd stay away from this
> approach, even with Stainless steel.
>
> Check six!
> Mark
>
My son has a show car with a high performance engine and it is equipped
with an exhaust that has been coated by Jet Hot. It looks great and
doesn't rust. The Jet Hot people are nice to work with and their turn
around time is fantastic. While it certainly reduces the tempature by
the exhaust, I am surprised that there isn't enough heat for the heat
muff. (perhaps your friend should wind a door spring around the exhaust
under the muff and see if that helps.)
I have two questions about using this coating for aircraft exhaust.
Normally, every aircraft exhaust that I have owned have developed cracks
over time. The solution was to have the cracks welded up. If the
exhaust has been coated by Jet Hot does this eliminate all cracking???
If it cracks can it be repaired without sandblasting off the Jet Hot
coating??? (this might be difficult to do since the inside of the pipes
also get coated ) Since Jet Hot apparently has a special coating for
aircraft (if I read your message correctly) have they addressed this
issue??? Does any one have any "real life experience" to share? The
other issue concerns the "ball joints" that are part of the exhaust that
Van sells. How does the Jet Hot work in this area? How do they handle
this area...mask it off? These are questions I would like to have
answered before sending off a very expensive exhaust system to be
coated.
Mike Denman
"Pay attention to the details
Sweat the small shit."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
Luck guy or Unlucky guy: you decide.
While we're at it, would someone explain to me why we ground our
airplanes while refueling, but never think about doing it to our cars,
lawn mowers, or anything else?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts |
>
> I believe the extra (6) washers that come with Van's kit are for shimming
> in case you want to or have to shim your engine to change where the
> spinner ends up. I think some people do this to correct the "sag" that
> sometimes happens once the engine has run for a while.
>
Does anybody know how much the spinner will move up by adding one
washer? I need to move my spinner up about 1/8" to make it look
just right.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alivic(at)wport.com |
| Subject: | RV8 Kit for Sale |
Dear Mike,
We've chatted before about tail dragging. I would be
interested in looking at your project and am interested. I am in
possession of a RV-8 empennage kit but have yet to begin. Are you
interested in getting rid of your tools as well?
Sorry you have decided to bail however your Citabria no
doubt satisfies most of your aviation needs.
Drop me a note so that we can make arrangements for getting
together. Tony Livic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
Hello,
Rather than use the flange marking tool as per plans, I drilled a hole in
the end of the ruler of an inexpensive 12" combination square. Then I took
the 'base' and micro adjusted it to the exact distance to center the hole
on the center of flange of the ribs, spars, etc.
Next I took the combination square and secured the long end of the ruler to
a vise using the bubble to level it. This eliminates having to somehow
secure a piece before you mark it.
In use I put the marking pen in the whole and draw the piece to be marked
across the pen using the base and gravity as support. I found this to be
quicker, more accurate and easier to use than securing the piece and then
drawing the edge marking tool.
As with most great ideas, I am probably not the first to think of it. In
fact I read this list so much that I probably just remembered a previous
posting.
Takes a max of five minutes to set up and I it saves me a lot of time and
my markings are more accurate.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micromonitor-RF interference |
I checked my micromonitor today and my carb temp goes nuts when I xmit.
All other functions work OK. Micro encoder functions OK during comm
transmit. Bent antenna on belly under passenger seat.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----------
> From: donspawn(at)juno.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Hot Time
> Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 4:07 PM
>
>
> >> while refueling my RV-6A. <<
> I think the ignition starts from the static of the flowing gas. I guess
my
> question to the list is Should I ground the fuel to the truck, the truck
> to the plane, & the nozzle to the truck???
>
> Don Jordan~6A wings
> donspawn(at)juno.com
>
The ignition can start from static of flowing gas (triboelectric effect) or
charge transport due to the plane and truck being at different potentials
(voltages). The rubber tires on the truck can aid charging. The ideal is
to have plane, nozzle and truck at the same potential, and keep them there,
before any gas flows. The ground line from the truck to the plane's
exhaust stack and the woven mesh gas hose cover ensure all are at the same
potential.
In graduate school we built "tea pot Van de Graff accelerators ( little
"atom smashers") by allowing charged water droplets to fall and accumulate
in a glass beaker until it zapped with a huge spark! Makes one a believer!
The gas flowing from gas can to gas tank can transfer lots of charge even
when the potential (voltage) between the two is tiny. Be careful!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----------
> From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Hot Time
> Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 6:29 PM
>
>
> Luck guy or Unlucky guy: you decide.
>
> While we're at it, would someone explain to me why we ground our
> airplanes while refueling, but never think about doing it to our cars,
> lawn mowers, or anything else?
>
> Andy
>
Grounding isn't required -- potential equalization is required. The gas
hose touching the car filler hole equalizes potential before any gas flows.
The more gas you transfer without potential equalization, the more charge
builds up. Its cumulative. Transfer 15 gal into your tractor and it too
may burst into flames.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Embree <rae1(at)planeteer.com> |
A fellow RV builder in Shelburne Ontario bought an 0-320-A3B recently.
The sump on this engine is not compatible with his 6A engine mount. He
is looking for an E sump and is willing to trade his sump and some cash.
If there is a 6 builder willing to trade let me know or contact Bob
Briggs at 519-925-3712. Alternative suggestions are welcome.
Roger Embree
Alliston Ont
RV-6A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ibid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortec engine weights |
>The engine is a 92 Chevy 4.3 liter with all standard equipment except water
>pump and pulleys. I was not aware of the composite valve covers and oil
>pans or I would have went that route. The engine weight includes the
>starter, alternator, engine mounts (I already had them bolted up), carb,
>coils, oil (5 qts), Belted Air PSRU, even sensors......etc. I guess
>everything but water and exhaust. Total weight I got was 412 pounds.
>Rather than use water as the kitplane article listed, I used weights off
>our weight benches, which should be relatively accurate.
>Does anyone have any comparisons of
>how this compares to a Lyc equivalent, ready to hang including motor
>mounts, oil?
The light-starter Lycoming O-360-A1A that Van's recommends weighs 285 lbs
"dry." The dry weight includes the engine, carburetor, magnetos, spark
plugs, ignition harness, intercylinder baffles, starter, and alternator.
It doesn't include the extra metal/rubberized baffling necessary for the
full cowl installation. The extra baffling is about 5 lbs and the engine
mount is around 20. Total weight then should run about 310 lbs.
The weight of your Vortec listed above includes 10lbs for oil that's not
included in the Lycoming dry weight. So I calculate that your engine installed
is 402lbs plus the weight of the water pump and pulleys, the radiator, and
the coolant. Let's assume 10 lbs for coolant (a little over a gallon),
10 lbs for radiator and hardware (per your quote), 3 lbs for water pump
and pulleys so 402 + 23 = 425lbs.
So, it looks like the Vortec is about 115lbs heavier, installed, than
a 180HP Lycoming. The 160HP Lycoming is about 10-15 lbs lighter than
the 180HP, making the Vortec ~125 pounds heavier than the O-320, installed.
How much ballast weight do you have to add to the tail?
It should be pretty easy to shave 10-30 pounds off the Vortec with fancy
parts.
greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine heaters (now hyperlink nomenclature) |
>
>Jerry Springer wrote:
>>
>> > Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.excpc.com/reiff
>
>> BTW you guys that put your web site address in your sig,if
>> just put these little < > at each end of your webb address
>> it will make a live hyperlink direct to that site. Or is that
>> a no no on the list?
>> I am using Reiff as a example <http://www.execpc.com/reiff>
>
>I read my email with Netscape, and it shows a live hyperlink for
>both of these nomenclatures.
>
>'Rob
Jerry,
Likewise, my Outlook Express in Internet Explorer 4.0. I think the http://x
triggers the hyperlink. Oh! There it is. It does! Also x(at)x.x triggers it.
And I don't even have "Rich Text" turned on.
Darrell Anderson
RV-4, wings
Great Falls, MT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JVanLaak <JVanLaak(at)aol.com> |
I have just bought an RV-6 and have to put my -4 up for sale. It is 180 hp
with full gyro panel and KX-155, Txpdr, Mode C and Lowrance Moving Map, rear
seat footwells, throttle, and trim. It has 490 hrs tt and smoh. Warnke prop.
Workmanship is average with somewhat rough cosmetics (mostly paint) but
mechanically sound and easily fixed to make a nice plane. And it really
flies!! 170 kts tas at 8000 ft and 2650 rpm. Great climb and patented RV
handling. Located in Houston and priced at $40K. Email pictures available.
Jim Van Laak
281-992-2853 (h)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy covers |
Sorry, I have the thicker cover Van's sells, and I am very pleased with
it.
incorporate
the elevator access shim suggested by another list member. (I've
forgotten who you are. [sorry] But I did remember your idea.) I bought a
roll of 6" wide .005" shim stock at the local MSC outlet this afternoon.
It took about 20 minutes to fabricate and dimple the shim. Before I
rivet it between the skin and the access cover reinforcing plate I'd
like to know if I should paint it. MSC had brass and steel shim stock. I
chose the brass, as I know that putting steel next to aluminium is not a
good thing. Hey, I live on the Florida coast, remember!!! The aluminium
parts are all Alodined and epoxy primed. If painting is recommended,
what type of paint. I was considering leaving the shim raw or just
giving it a quick coat of Krylon spray enamel. Any comments?
Charlie (way to much time on my hands) Kuss
RV-8 elevators ( I didn't know there was any brass in an RV) :-)
Boca Raton, Fl.
PS Jody Edwards, I can hear your thought waves from here as you read
this!! :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Exhaust system wrap |
The only negative I can think of concerning this wrap, is like an I.A.
told me, he didn't like it because it hides cracks that can be
potentially dangerous.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | I teach riveting |
Jim:
I just pulled my fuel tank out of the fixture after squeezing the baffle
on before Christmas. ON the top surface, the rivets in the skin were
perfect. ON the lower surface I have about 6-7 rivets I think I can
Shave. Any points on 1>buying a tool 2> Points on its use. The other 10
or so are so high I am going to drill them out & re-rivet. I checked the
demples with a rivet prior to riveting.
My bucking buddy & I both squeezed some on each side so I can't decide
who or why we messed up.
I have 3 A&P's inspecting for me & one keeps claiming that I am dempling
to deep. THe other 2 don't mention it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets--lightspeed |
I ordered some lightspeed 20's this morning. I was going for the new
Pilot anc headsets because they are fully self contained with no extra
wires hanging out, until the salesman told me it has a rechargeable
battery that has to be recharged in its own charger. I figured it would
be too much trouble to fool with if the battery died in flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh/Lakeland Vendor? |
<< Last year at Sun-N-Fun, I purchased a leather cow hide to cover the seats
in
> my RV-8. The vendor that I bought this from is always at Lakeland and
Oshkosh
> in a tent with misc. AN hardware. I have since decided that I would like
to
> cover the side walls with the leather also. If anyone has done business
with
> this person, and has a phone number or name, I would greatly appreciate you
> forwarding this info. to me. I paid cash at the time of the sale and do
not
> have a name or number for this vendor. Thanks again for any help in this
> matter.
>
> Regards,
> Louis Smith
> lousmith(at)aol.com
> RV8 N801RV #80126
> Waiting on finish kit
>
Louis
How much was the leather? I'm getting ready to have DJ Lauritsen(sp)
make my interior package, and leather would be nice$$$$$$$$.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
>>
Craig,
I paid $75.00 for the leather. It was a nice oyster grey color. He had
mostly browns, tans, orange and light blue. When unrolled, it is larger than
the surface area of a queen size bed. There were several Glasair guys buying
the light tan ones. I too am having DJ Lauritsen make my seats.
Louis Smith
RV8 N801RV
Rocky Mount, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
(Sorry if this is a duplicate, I sent it a couple days ago but never saw it
on the list)
Hi all,
My RV-8 will have to be a fairly economy model I'm afraid. As much as I'd
like to bolt up a brand new Lycoming, there's no way I can financially
justify taking a second mortgage on my house for one. As a previous RX-7
owner, I love rotary engines. I've followed Tracy Crook's project with much
interest. I'm convinced that this would make a great engine for my plane,
but I'm also realistic enough to see the downsides to it (extra time, not
considered as reliable by the general public, and possible re-sale
problems). In the end, the lowest $$$ option will probably win.
Realistically, I'll probably end up with a used Lycoming.
A question about used Lycomings: I understand that it's still possible to
find the occasional mid/high time engine starting round $6k. If you were to
buy one of these engines, would you trust it enough to just bolt it up and
fly, or would you want to see it taken apart and inspected (maybe a TOH).
How much would you really expect to have in a used engine before flying it?
I've heard a couple horror stories at fly-ins regarding bargain engines that
turned out to be very expensive before they ever flew. With the outrageous
prices that Lycoming charges for parts, it wouldn't take many hidden
problems to break the bank.
Thanks, now time to clean out the garage before the new project arrives, and
change the code on the garage door opener before my wife gets home :-)
Russell Duffy
RV-8 waiting for empenage kit
SlingShot SS-003, N8754K
Navarre, FL
rad(at)pen.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mooney Engine and Prop Useable? |
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
Before you purchase the Hartzell constant speed prop, carefully check the
AD recently issued by Hartzell. The older steel hub CS props typically
will not pass muster under this AD. I know from experience having
recently replaced the Hartzell CS prop I had on my RV6A which was from a
1957 Mooney M20. I now have a brand new Hartzell purchased through Vans.
J. E. Rehler RV6A flying, Corpus Christi, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
Roger Embree wrote:
>
>
> A fellow RV builder in Shelburne Ontario bought an 0-320-A3B recently.
> The sump on this engine is not compatible with his 6A engine mount. He
> is looking for an E sump and is willing to trade his sump and some cash.
>
> If there is a 6 builder willing to trade let me know or contact Bob
> Briggs at 519-925-3712. Alternative suggestions are welcome.
>
> Roger Embree
> Alliston Ont
> RV-6A wings
I have a sump from a 0-320-E2G that puts the carb back about 6 inches
from the normal "A" type sump. The engine came from a Gruman. The
induction pipes interferred with my motor mouint on my -4.
Contact me if interested.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instrument panel |
I am considering shock mounting a duplicate instrument panel over the top
of the existing one, and would cut away most of the existing panel -
leaving only about 1-1/2 inches or so of material around the perimeter and
in the area of the F645 attach point - in order to accomplish this.
Van's has indicated that they are aware that this has been done on some
kits, but that they haven't experimented with it themselves.
Has anyone out there done something similar? Any problems or comments you
would like to share?
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Caummisar" <caummisa(at)arn.net> |
Yes, if all of the items (truck, tank, plane, fuel, nozzel, hose, etc) are
at
the same electrical potential a spark will not occur. BTW, the
correct termanology is bonding. Bonding is when all the parts are
connected
together to acheive a equal electrical potential to avoid the generation
static sparks.
>>> while refueling my RV-6A. <<
I have never put a ground in the tank to the truck or
>aircraft. I do ground the metal tip to the exhaust prior to filling. I
>keep the nozzle touching the metal ring in the bonanza while fueling. I
>think the ignition starts from the static of the flowing gas. I guess my
>question to the list is Should I ground the fuel to the truck, the truck
>to the plane, & the nozzle to the truck???
>
>
>Don Jordan~6A wings
>donspawn(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Headsets--lightspeed |
--------------613DDB39584B5FB8CCE7C0E7
Bill Wootton wrote:
> I've heard allot of talk about the lightspeed headsets lately,
> enough to make me want to get a pair to try. The problem is I
> haven't been able to find them!!!
>
> Can somebody tell me some distributors that sell the lightspeed sets.
You can Email them and ask who their distributors are at:
litspeed(at)teleport.com
I bought the 20K at OSH this year for my wife and she loves them. I
plan to get another set when the -6 is flying. I tried on both the 15K
and 20K. The 15K has 1" thick foamseal made of 2 densities of foam. The
20K has 1" thick seals made of 3 densities. Also, the 20K has a little
better noise protection. Worth the extra $$ IMHO.
Warren Bishop RV-6 systems
> Thanks
> Bill Wootton
> RV6 Wings (fuselage on its way :)
--------------613DDB39584B5FB8CCE7C0E7
Bill Wootton wrote:
I've heard allot
of talk about the lightspeed headsets lately, enough to make
me want to get a pair to try. The problem is I haven't been
able to find them!!!
Can somebody
tell me some distributors that sell the lightspeed sets.
You can Email them and ask who their distributors are at: litspeed(at)teleport.com
I bought the 20K at OSH this year for my wife and she loves them.
I plan to get another set when the -6 is flying. I tried on both
the 15K and 20K. The 15K has 1" thick foamseal made of 2 densities
of foam. The 20K has 1½" thick seals made of 3 densities.
Also, the 20K has a little better noise protection. Worth the extra
$$ IMHO.
Warren Bishop RV-6 systems
Thanks
Bill Wootton
RV6 Wings (fuselage
on its way :)
--------------613DDB39584B5FB8CCE7C0E7--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: back issues of The RVator |
Back issues for the RVator are available. We have the 1995 and 1996
packages available. If you just want specific issues, we can usually find
them too.
The December issue for '97 is at the printers and will probably be mailed
the first week in January by first class postage.
Bill
>
>Does anyone out there know how one could get back issues of The RVator? I
>need the last 2 in 1995 and all issues for 1996 & 1997.
>My RV-4 project has been on hold for two years due to a move and having a
>house and new workshop built. I would greatly appreciate
>any help on this as I need them to find any building print changes that have
>accured. I would be glad to pay for the issues if someone
>would be willing to part with them. Thanks in advance. RWilliJill(at)aol.com
>
>
Bill
RV-4-180 flying. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
n to the number of kits being
worked on.
>In no time, it would be a
>cost savings due to the fewer calls received. Today, they also have
>to deal with the e-mail notes. It costs a lot to have those guys
>manning phones instead of doing something to help produce more
>product. The better the finished product, the less they need for a
>large support team.
The e-mail issue is truly an issue. We have noted a decrease in phone
calls that we attribute to the e-mail service. At the same time, we get a
lot of e-mail requests that could have been easily resolved and a lot of
time we get a thank you for our response with a "I figured it out for myself
after I sent the question to you". We get between 30 and 60 e-mail messages
a day.
If we take the mail seriously, this is between an hour and 8 hours of
additional work
which has hopefully been offset by fewer phone calls. We would just ask
that people
think about their question before sending a question in.
>What really bothers me is that they've done nothing about design
>flaws or vendor errors such as holes not properly drilled in wing spars.
>They seem more interested in new stuff than fixing the old stuff that's
>still being sold at a rapid rate.
I don't know what problems you are refering to (done nothing about). We have
addressed the spar hole tolerances and to the best of our knowledge this
is not a continuing problem.
Obviously you have had problems with the electric flaps. I have not been
following the thread so I don't know the details. We need to keep in mind
that we are building a mechanical device that has not had a tolerance study
and the buildup of tolerances will sometimes cause interferences. We are also
dealing with minor variations that each builder will inadvertently construct
into his aircraft, causing interferences.
In conclusion, from where you are sitting, the changes may not be visible,
but
they are being made. The repeat offenders (those working on their second,
or third,
or fourth or...) kit have frequently commented about how much easier the
kits (even the
same model) are to construct.
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220 (Just worked around the electric flap design flaw.)
Bill
RV-4-180 flying. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Lervold <RLervold(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Build both wings at once? |
Experienced wing builders:
By the end of the month I'll have my empennage complete and will begin my
-8 wings which are sitting there in the box right now. In trying to plan
ahead and be as efficient as possible (translation; flying sooner) I put up
two sets of jig uprights about 3' apart. I put a cross member on one and
used it for the emp jig while the other one waits theoretically for the
wings. My thinking at the time (as an inexperienced plebe) was that I could
build both wings at the same time in mirror image configuration thus making
each step of construction twice as productive. So here comes the
question...
Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a great
idea?
Thanks for any words of wisdom here,
Randy Lervold
-8 #80500, just buttoning up rudder
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender & #8 countersinking |
<19980105.071510.10239.5.cecilth(at)juno.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>
>Hi Brian, You will have better luck if you clamp another piece of
>metal with an
>eighth inch hole behind the one you are countersinking. This acts as
>a
>guide so you can stop the chattering.
>
>Cecil
>
>
>writes:
>>
>>G'day folks,
>>
>>Two items for your perusal:
>>
>>I've been having quite a battle with machine countersinking the wing
>>spar flanges for the tank attachment screws (#8s going through the
>>tank
>>skin, spar flange and into nutplates). Once the hole widens up
>larger
>
Or you can just follow the instructions in the manuel.
It tells the builder to install the #8 K-1100 nut plates after drilling
the holes to final size. After doing this you can use a #30 piloted
countersink and it will center in the nut plate very nicely.
This does work very well (we tested a lot of different possible
alternatives) and it gets rid of the need for having a 5/32 countersink
cutter.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>For what it's worth, I didn't go overboard with the trailing edge
>crease...a sharp radius can crack...AND, I've had my control surfaces
>looked at by an A&P/IA friend of mine who also has every rating known
>to
>mankind and thousands of hours in everything with wings or
>rotors...the
>trailing edge formed with the 2x6 brake is FINE...and better than a
>sharp edge as I've seen on a couple of -4s locally..both with cracks
>starting to form..(although they had the thinner skins..which may be
>the
>primary contributing factor).
>
Brian,
I have posted about this before but will again because I am concerned
that someone will get the wrong Idea.
It is VERY important to get the trailing edges formed correctly to have
prevent the possibility of control surface float or snatch.
The skin is bent correctly when you can lay a straight edge on the skin
cord wise at the trailing edge and have it lay flat all the way to where
the skin begins to make the tight radius bend on the trailing edge. A
number of builders have proven in flight that if not done correctly it
can significantly effect the flight characteristics of an RV.
>I also offer another observation...look at the ailerons on many of the
>
>latest acro-machines...SQUARED off trailing edges. This gives a better
>
>center feel...to help lock in the neutral position after a rolling
>input.
Their is a lot more to it than that though. With this type of a general
statement we could suggest that a piper or cessna could benefit from
squared off trailing edges, but that's not necessarily true.
There are many other variables to consider (hinging point, etc.) which is
why we can't generalize and assume that it would be good for an RV also!
I won't go into the aerodynamics of it...unless you prime me
>with
>a fresh homebrew...then...???
>
>Just my thoughts on the matter.
>
>Enjoy the building!
>
>Brian Denk
>left wing skins ready to rivet.
>
>______________________________________________________
>
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShowCtrGuy <ShowCtrGuy(at)aol.com> |
<< While we're at it, would someone explain to me why we ground our
airplanes while refueling, but never think about doing it to our cars,
lawn mowers, or anything else?
>>
well.. I'm no expert on this by any means, but--- Perrhaps since the nozzle is
metal, and in constant contact with ths filler neck...and if there is a layer
of metal in the hose below the rubber, then the car is grounded to the tank..
any input?
Jeremy King
RV4 # 3981 tail
Carrollton GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh/Lakeland Vendor? |
Louis Smith wrote:
> Last year at Sun-N-Fun, I purchased a leather cow hide to cover the seats
in
> my RV-8. The vendor that I bought this from is always at Lakeland and
Oshkosh
> in a tent with misc. AN hardware. I have since decided that I would like
to
> cover the side walls with the leather also. If anyone has done business
with
> this person, and has a phone number or name, I would greatly appreciate
you
> forwarding this info. to me. I paid cash at the time of the sale and do
not
> have a name or number for this vendor. Thanks again for any help in this
> matter.
----------
I believe the name of the company you are looking for is as follows;
B&B Aircraft Supplies
31905 W. 175th Street
Gardner Municipal Airport
Gardner, Kansas 66030
(913)-884-5930
(913)-884-6533 Fax
I too have looked at these skins and have been contemplating picking up
some at the next Sun-N-Fun. Fire engine red would do nicely!
Jerry Isler
RV4 #1070 on the gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets are killing me! |
>
>-
>
>
>
>>OK, today I riveted my HS front spar together, and I had the same
>>problem I had with the rear spar- I screwed up alot of rivets!
Moe,
Just started the rudder. Screwed up alot of rivets myself and dinged some
skin around the rivets too. Marching on. Got advice from an experienced
builder to keep going and it'll get better. When I'm finished with the kit
I'll revisit the HS & VS to see if I really want to redo them. The more I
rivet the better it gets though. Hang in there.
Bill Pagan
-8 Rudder
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mooney Engine and Prop Useable? |
Barnes, Eric wrote:
>
>
>
> I'd talk to
> Hartzell first.
>
> Pretty sure that Hartzell C/S props have a new AD against them,sounds
> costly.May impact your purchase price.Definately'check AD's or
> Hartzell.
Derek Reed Grants Pass OR 6A Wings[also Mooney with Hartzell prop,need
to check AD myself!]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MAlexan533 [SMTP:MAlexan533(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 07:42
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Mooney Engine and Prop Useable?
>
>
> I came across an older mooney that may become available for a
> very good price.
> Extensive corrosion has made the aircraft unairworthy. I would
>
> like to buy it
> for the engine and prop. Question; Can the Hartzell prop be
> used
> in my RV-8,
> or is the diameter too large? I know I can use the engine
> (mid
> time), but
> don't know anything about using the prop. Help?
> Von Alexander
> RV-8#544
> MAlexan533(at)aol.com
>
> text
>
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin Plate nuts (?) |
Jerry, If I understand your question, you are wondering the reason for
the 2 1/2" spacing of rivets in the lower wing skin at rib 1, correct?
My wing construction notes are on the net at http://www.flash.net/~gila
parked behind the red RV-6A. I just reviewed them to refresh my memory.
The notes say that the lower skin at rib 1 will be later riveted in
assembly with the fuselage lower skin. Those few rivets installed
now are merely tack rivets to hold the skin until it is securely riveted
later. I am now completing the fuselage of my RV-6A and sure enough
there is fuselage skin just waiting for the wing to arrive. I hope this
answers your question.
Will Cretsinger
-6A at Grand Prairie (TX) Airport
Now working on brakes and wheels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | IELHAI <IELHAI(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
I don't think you want to just "bolt" a $ 6000.00 engine on the work of your
life. You might find an O320 for that price, but surely safety requires a tear
down in spection. I recommend you deal with a reputable engine source and get
a guaranty at least for the crank condition. Other things to hope for os a
first run engine and not on its second or third overhaul. I just contracted
for an IO 360 for my Rv8 and it cost $7,500 with the accessories. The tear
down inspection, overhaul with quality workmanship will run about
$11,000.00. I, too, thought I could find something easier on the wallet, but
good engines will cost a little more. Hope this helps.
Irv Elhai Rv 8 110 starting the wings in CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bryon Timothy Maynard <bmaynard(at)communique.net> |
| Subject: | EAA Tech advisor around New Orleans |
Does any one know who the Tech Advisor/EAA inspector is for the New
Orleans Area.
My RV-6A is ready for a second vist.
I live in the Slidell Area.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Micromonitor-RF interference continued..... |
Today, I pushed the plane outside of the garage and tried it. It seems a
little better outside. I have a steel garage door, and my wings are on a rack
that's right next to the airframe. I also discovered that below about 125 MHZ
and above 132 MHZ, the effect is minimal. It's worse around 127-128 MHZ. I
also hooked some shop air up to the oil and fuel pressure sending units, and
when they're pressurized they aren't affected very much, it's worse when
they're indicating zero. The worst offenders are the egt and cht indications.
When the radio is keyed on 127.5 MHZ, the cht jumps from 20C up to 300C. I've
tried relocating the transmit cable as far away from all of the other wires as
far as I could, but it didn't make much difference. I also discovered that my
sony cd player boom box I listen to in the garage, goes beserk when I transmit
anything lower than 123MHZ!
My next plan is to try and borrow a dummy load and watt meter and SWR
meter, and see what turns up.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cable routing for position light in rudder bottom |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
writes:
>
>
>RV-Listers,
>
>I am building an RV-8. I will be putting a combination
>strobe/position light in my rudder bottom fairing. I am wondering
>where the cable routing will be. The RV-8 preview plans are not
>available yet, so all I've got to look at is my tail plans. Do I
>need to cut a hole in the bottom rudder rib and rudder spar so the
>cable can come into the fuselage above the bottom rudder hinge, or
>will it be able to come out the front of the rudder fairing below the
>bottom hinge? If I have to cut holes in the rib and spar I figure it
>will be better to do it now, before I rivet the skin on.
>
>Thanks for your help,
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (working on rudder)
>khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
>Ottawa, Canada
>
>
Kevin,
You should have no problem routing into the rudder from the front
of the fiberglass bottom fairing. My airplane was done this way and I
have done a couple others the same. Just plan on grommets in the fairing
and the vertical stab spar below the bottom hinge brackets. Use some
type of vinyl tubing to route the wires through between the fuse and the
rudder for protection.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts |
<34B1A5C1.390E(at)worldnet.att.net>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
writes:
>
>
>>
>> I believe the extra (6) washers that come with Van's kit are for
>shimming
>> in case you want to or have to shim your engine to change where the
>> spinner ends up. I think some people do this to correct the "sag"
>that
>> sometimes happens once the engine has run for a while.
>>
>
>
>Does anybody know how much the spinner will move up by adding one
>washer? I need to move my spinner up about 1/8" to make it look
>just right.
>
>Craig Hiers
>
>
I do not know how much it moves with a single washer added but please
keep in mind that making this type of adjustment is not something you
should do to correct errors in construction.
ANY change in engine alignment is a change in thrust line which can
have other effects to the airplane other than how nice it looks.
I usually fit a cowling so that the spinner is 1/8 to 3/16 high of were I
want it ultimately to be, and after 100 hrs or so the mounts usually
settle in so that it lines up were you want it.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
Russell Duffy wrote:
>
> (Sorry if this is a duplicate, I sent it a couple days ago but never
> saw it
> on the list)
>
> Hi all,
>
> My RV-8 will have to be a fairly economy model I'm afraid. As much as
> I'd
> like to bolt up a brand new Lycoming, there's no way I can financially
>
> justify taking a second mortgage on my house for one. As a previous
> RX-7
> owner, I love rotary engines. I've followed Tracy Crook's project
> with much
> interest. I'm convinced that this would make a great engine for my
> plane,
> but I'm also realistic enough to see the downsides to it (extra time,
> not
> considered as reliable by the general public, and possible re-sale
> problems). In the end, the lowest $$$ option will probably win.
> Realistically, I'll probably end up with a used Lycoming.
>
> A question about used Lycomings: I understand that it's still
> possible to
> find the occasional mid/high time engine starting round $6k. If you
> were to
> buy one of these engines, would you trust it enough to just bolt it up
> and
> fly, or would you want to see it taken apart and inspected (maybe a
> TOH).
> How much would you really expect to have in a used engine before
> flying it?
> I've heard a couple horror stories at fly-ins regarding bargain
> engines that
> turned out to be very expensive before they ever flew. With the
> outrageous
> prices that Lycoming charges for parts, it wouldn't take many hidden
> problems to break the bank.
>
> Thanks, now time to clean out the garage before the new project
> arrives, and
> change the code on the garage door opener before my wife gets home :-)
>
> Russell Duffy
> RV-8 waiting for empenage kit
> SlingShot SS-003, N8754K
> Navarre, FL
> rad(at)pen.net
>
>
Russel,Try the Mod-Shop right there in your home state. They pull
engines off of Mooneys all the time. I just bought a n IO-360
with 1400 hrs and great logs for $9500. It was still on the aircraft
when I called. Nice folks to do business with too!
Ed Cole RV6A #24430 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
>So, do you think Van's intentions are to certify this version for the
>trainer market? I understand it costs big bucks to get a design through
>the cert. process...and hope it doesn't end up impacting the cost of our
>kits! Better get my fuse kit ordered....*grin*.
>
>Brian Denk
>-8 wings
>
Brian,
I'm not sure what the plan is at this point. Maybe we can ask Scott when he
comes back on-list soon. He should know. Might be interesting, though.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Rudder final assembly
ros requires more total volume
>than most small automotive pumps are likely to be able to flow. The vacuum
>"regulator" is actually a controlled leak through a needle valve, and we
>only call it a regulator because it is adjustable (on the ground).
>
>In the automotive use for these type pumps there is almost no flow, and
>usually a rather large (several liter) resevoir to maintain vacuum when the
>momentary demand exceeds the pump capacity.
>
This is a very good point, Bob. One I hadn't thought of. An automotive
system is used for power brakes, climate control servos, door locks
(Mercedes), fuel shut off, etc. All very low, if any volume.
For me personally, it doesn't matter. The only gyro I plan on having at
this point is a turn coordinator, which of course is electric. I just
thought I'd toss that out there to add to the low buck vacuum discussion.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Rudder final assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edges |
>
>Brian,
>I have posted about this before but will again because I am concerned
>that someone will get the wrong Idea.
>
>It is VERY important to get the trailing edges formed correctly to have
>prevent the possibility of control surface float or snatch.
>The skin is bent correctly when you can lay a straight edge on the skin
>cord wise at the trailing edge and have it lay flat all the way to
where
>the skin begins to make the tight radius bend on the trailing edge. A
>number of builders have proven in flight that if not done correctly it
>can significantly effect the flight characteristics of an RV.
>
>
>>I also offer another observation...look at the ailerons on many of the
>>
>>latest acro-machines...SQUARED off trailing edges. This gives a better
>>
>>center feel...to help lock in the neutral position after a rolling
>>input.
>
>Their is a lot more to it than that though. With this type of a
general
>statement we could suggest that a piper or cessna could benefit from
>squared off trailing edges, but that's not necessarily true.
>There are many other variables to consider (hinging point, etc.) which
is
>why we can't generalize and assume that it would be good for an RV
also!
>
> I won't go into the aerodynamics of it...unless you prime me
>>with
>>a fresh homebrew...then...???
>>
>>Just my thoughts on the matter.
>>
>>Enjoy the building!
>>
>>Brian Denk
>>left wing skins ready to rivet.
>>
>>______________________________________________________
>>
>
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
>These opinions and ideas are my own
>and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
>of my employer.
Scott and all,
Agreed! Let me clarify: a Cessna wing and a fully symmetrical acro wing
DO behave differently..I offered the squared trailing edge comment
purely as a mind expander and did not intend for anyone to apply it to
the RV design. My sincere appologies if this was implied in any way. As
for my control surfaces...they ARE flat...all the way to the trailing
edge bend radius, no bulges between stiffeners. To crease the radius any
further would be difficult without drastically shortening the stiffeners
from the plan specifications...and would be just that..a CREASE vs. a
smooth radius bend. If any additional sharpening of the bend is
required beyond that which is provided by the brake..is it stated in the
instructions to do so? (don't have the plans with me now...at work) How
about a simple template in the plans to transfer onto a thin piece of
wood or something to run along the trailing edge..noting any areas which
need further tweaking? Is the bend supposed to be just as "sharp" as the
thinner skinned -4 and -6 surfaces?
OK, enough of this thread...let's get back to building the world's
finest airplanes!
Brian
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans |
*** snip ***
>You are correct Jim. We take your calls seriously but we do not make a
change
>to the plans for every call. We (Tom, Bill and John who do most of the
>technical
>calls) talk about the calls a lot. No, we do not belittle your calls, but
>when
>we see a pattern or where the plans or manual are not clear, we note how to
>correct it.
*** big snip ***
>
>Obviously you have had problems with the electric flaps. I have not been
>following the thread so I don't know the details.
Bill,
..... he had the same problem I did .... This is a copy of my RV-list
posting in Jun 1995. It seems the dimensions may still be wrong. If you
remember, I sent you a scale drawing of a side view of that area showing
definite interference if built to print.
**** old posting ****keyword "flap"&"warning" search from archives******
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:21:09 -0800
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: WARNING - RV6 Electric FLAPs and Tip-up canopies (technical)
RV-listers,
After speaking to Bill B. at Vans this morning, I found a major
"gotcha" for those building a -6 with electric FLAPs and the tip-up canopy.
The electric FLAP drawings are _definitely_ wrong. Apparently they
were altered about 4-6 months ago, but no change was published in the
RVator, or issued to kit builders. The lead time for the old FLAP kits
must be about 1 year (about how long I've had my fuselage kit), since they
got 3 calls on this subject this week :^) This must have finally hit the
"error notification limit", and I now expect the change to actually get
into the RVator.
The error is interference of the canopy latch cross-rod with the
electric FLAP actuator. This cross rod is the 3/4 inch diam. steel tube
that is centered 3.063 inches below the longerons, and 0.5 inches ahead of
bulkhead F-605. If you have already built the electric FLAP drive assembly
(as I have) per the electric FLAP prints, then you _will_ have a problem.
If it's not yet built, then the fix is to move the top of the EF-604
channel back 1/2 inch where it attaches to the center of the F-605 upper
crosspiece (F-605F). This might still get you into trouble with the FLAP
control arm hitting this EF-604 channel near the mid-point of the FLAP
motion. My tolerances would not allow this to be a complete fix. Careful
checking is required.
Moving the canopy latch cross rod is tricky, since the seats backs
(in their usual rear-most position) will interfere if it's moved forward or
up too much. Other fixes might involve modifying the canopy latch
cross-rod with shorter "latch fingers", making the cross-rod's diameter
smaller, or cutting away the EF-604 channel (this would look ugly though).
I'm not yet sure what my fix will be, as all of my FLAP actuator and mount
parts are completed and ready for priming.
Those of you with the slider canopy don't have this problem.
If you are building, or know someone who is, a RV6 fuselage with
electric FLAPs and a tip-up canopy, then be very careful, and make your own
drawings and measurements before fitting the electric FLAP drive assembly
if your canopy is not yet installed.
Gil Alexander, RV6A, #20701 ..... scratching my head ...
PS. I also found out that the #10 nutplates included in the Electric FLAP
Kit were there just to confuse the builder, and are not now shipped :^)
*** end old posting ********************************************
>We need to keep in mind
>that we are building a mechanical device that has not had a tolerance study
>and the buildup of tolerances will sometimes cause interferences. We are
also
>dealing with minor variations that each builder will inadvertently construct
>into his aircraft, causing interferences.
Yes ... but if the drawing start off with incorrect dimensions, then
tolerances usually only make things worse (but, admittedly you could get
lucky ...:^)
As I visit more and more RV6 projects as an EAA Technical Counselor, I
am amazed at how similar the planes are, and how _most_ builders seem to
get the same small dimensional defects. I think your kit parts are being
produced more consistenly than you give yourself credit for .....
... Gil (who likes accurate dimensions) Alexander
>
>In conclusion, from where you are sitting, the changes may not be visible,
*** snip ***
>>Jim Sears
>>RV-6A #22220 (Just worked around the electric flap design flaw.)
>
>
>Bill
>
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
>
>Experienced wing builders:
>
>By the end of the month I'll have my empennage complete and will begin
my
>-8 wings which are sitting there in the box right now. In trying to
plan
>ahead and be as efficient as possible (translation; flying sooner) I
put up
>two sets of jig uprights about 3' apart. I put a cross member on one
and
>used it for the emp jig while the other one waits theoretically for the
>wings. My thinking at the time (as an inexperienced plebe) was that I
could
>build both wings at the same time in mirror image configuration thus
making
>each step of construction twice as productive. So here comes the
>question...
>
>Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a great
>idea?
>
>Thanks for any words of wisdom here,
>Randy Lervold
>-8 #80500, just buttoning up rudder
>Vancouver, WA
Randy,
Uh, yes..and no..depends! I've approached the -8 wings like this: I
worked both wings through to the assembly of the basic wing box...main
ribs riveted to the spars...prepped all nose ribs...and did as much as I
could on both wing skeletons right up to the point of requiring the jig
to start fitting the skins. I built my jig to allow for both wings to be
done at the same time...but decided against it so I didn't have to duck
under one wing to get to the other at certain times. I have also found
that some of the procedures that didn't go as well as I would have
liked, can be improved upon on the other wing. I'm working on the left
wing now..which is more involved due to the pitot and landing light
installation. The right wing should go MUCH faster when it gets it's
turn in the jig. At least I hope so! I have also built the control rods
and prepped all the aileron and flap parts...for both wings. So...I'm
sorta working on both wings...but not really...uh, have I lost you yet?
*grin*
Just my way of doing things...and I make no claim as to the sanity
thereof....
Whatever you do...make it work FOR YOU..nobody else.
Brian Denk
-8 #379
wings..both of em, then just one..then...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
>I don't think you want to just "bolt" a $ 6000.00 engine on the work of
your
>life. You might find an O320 for that price, but surely safety requires
a tear
>down in spection. I recommend you deal with a reputable engine source
and get
>a guaranty at least for the crank condition. Other things to hope for
os a
>first run engine and not on its second or third overhaul. I just
contracted
>for an IO 360 for my Rv8 and it cost $7,500 with the accessories. The
tear
>down inspection, overhaul with quality workmanship will run about
>$11,000.00. I, too, thought I could find something easier on the
wallet, but
>good engines will cost a little more. Hope this helps.
>
>Irv Elhai Rv 8 110 starting the wings in CA
Irv,
So, if I'm reading your post correctly, the total cost of the engine
plus the cost of the overhaul/inspection will cost you approx. $18,500?
I was hoping to do a similar thing myself..buy a mid time IO-360, and do
the top overhaul myself with my A&P/IA buddy VERY close by my side, and
send out the crank for inspection. I've estimated around $13K to do
this. (I may be GROSSLY underestimating here..who knows?) Anyway,
doesn't Van's sell a new O-360 for around $19K? Might that be a more
direct path to meet your goals? Oh, and if you feel comfortable doing
so, can let me know where you found the engine? The $7,500 figure is
right where I'd like to start at. Reply to me off-list if you can.
Just pondering the options and best of luck to you!
Brian Denk
-8 #379 wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine heaters |
Can you leave an engine heater plugged in all the time??? Will it damage the
oil in any way?? Does heating the oil pan but not the rest of the engine cause
condensation in the cylinder area???
--- Forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
From: Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:05:27 EST
In a message dated 1/4/98 11:33:01 PM, you wrote:
The Hot Padd heater is an excellent
I use it even on warm days due to the beneficial effect
I don't work for Vans, Reiff or anyone else, just highly opinionated, and
impressed with this product.
D. Walsh
---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
--
Jeffrey S. Davis
Senior Research Engineer
Advance Vehicle Technology
Ford Motor Company
Phone (313)845-5224 Fax (313)845-4781
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
Regarding gross weight, a while back, Vans tested the 6 wing loading and they easily
passed. This was documented in the RVator. Also mentioned was that they
were analyzing increasing the suggested gross weight.
Has anyone heard anything about this since?
Brian Eckstein
6A wings, big tanks done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Orndorff G <OrndorffG(at)aol.com> |
Roger,
Try "Bobby's PLanes and Parts 817-682-4220" he can help you ...George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | semenuk(at)pobox.upenn.edu (Steven Semenuk) |
| Subject: | Potential RV Builder |
I am a private pilot and member of EAA Chapter 240. I have been to two RV
builders' forums--in Frederick, MD and Fulton, NY, but I did not get a
chance to sit in a -6 or -6A (I did get to sit in the Van's yellow -8,
though).
Are there any RV owners between New Haven, CT, Richmond, VA and as far west
as Bedford, PA who wouldn't mind letting me sit in their RV-6 or -6A to see
if I can fit in one (I am 6'1", 200 lbs., but have short legs and a long
torso)? Better yet, I would gladly pay expenses if you would "fly my around
the patch." I can't afford to fly all the way out to Oregon to visit Van's
in person; it would be much easier to see a real live -6/6A in person on
the east coast. I was just about to buy the kit without even sitting in it,
but my wife insisted otherwise.
Please send me an e-mail if you can oblige. Any assistance is much appreciated.
Sincerely,
Steve Semenuk
semenuk(at)pobox.upenn.edu
302-426-0862 (h)
215-898-1136 (w)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Lettering Material |
>
>Here's how to acquire the material I used to make my panel placards.
>
>The stuff is called Repro Film, and is made by Rayven Inc. 431 N. Griggs
>St. St. Paul, MN 55104, 612-642-1112 FAX 612-642-9497. It is
>transparent, adhesive back film which I estimate to be about 1 mil
>thick. I used type 410 (Clear) and it prints on almost any Laser
>printer. I used a Hewlett Packard Laserjet II.
I have the a H.P. Inkjet, has anyone printed on this material or any
other with success?
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612 <JRoss10612(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
Randy:
Building both wings at once is a good idea. Many builders simply don't have
the space, I was lucky enough to have that space and built both wings at the
same time in my hangar. I placed the jigs in a corner, one on each wall.
There's nothing wrong with the concept of building both wings at once, however
you must be cautious that you don't make the same error (if you make any) on
both wings...
Charge ahead!
Jon Ross RV-80094 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts |
<34B1A5C1.390E(at)worldnet.att.net> <19971222.004028.6494.2.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
>
> writes:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I believe the extra (6) washers that come with Van's kit are for
> >shimming
> >> in case you want to or have to shim your engine to change where the
> >> spinner ends up. I think some people do this to correct the "sag"
> >that
> >> sometimes happens once the engine has run for a while.
> >>
> >
> >
> >Does anybody know how much the spinner will move up by adding one
> >washer? I need to move my spinner up about 1/8" to make it look
> >just right.
> >
> >Craig Hiers
> >
> >
> I do not know how much it moves with a single washer added but please
> keep in mind that making this type of adjustment is not something you
> should do to correct errors in construction.
> ANY change in engine alignment is a change in thrust line which can
> have other effects to the airplane other than how nice it looks.
> I usually fit a cowling so that the spinner is 1/8 to 3/16 high of were I
> want it ultimately to be, and after 100 hrs or so the mounts usually
> settle in so that it lines up were you want it.
>
> Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
> These opinions and ideas are my own
> and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> of my employer.
>
Scott
I tryed to build the cowl about 1/8" low, but when everything was
riveted and bonded it ended up being right where it was supposed to
be. Now the motor has sagged about an 1/8 inch. It looks bad but if
moving the motor up 1/8" is going to create a problem I guess I
will have to live with it.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micromonitor-RF interference |
First, let me say that I have no experience with the RMI unit. In the
following I am assuming that it uses thermocouples as sensors for its
thermal functions.
At any rate, after reading the posts on this subject it seems to me that
the problem might be more with the RMI unit rather than radio installation
technique.
It sounds like the thermocouple inputs to the RMI are not sufficiently
noise immune, and/or the thermocouple wire may be acting like a big
antenna. Keep in mind that the thermocouples operate at only a few
millivolts, so it doesn't take much unwanted signal to screw up the reading.
I would try the following to attempt to isolate the problem or correct it.
However, you may wish to check with RMI first to be sure that none of the
following tests will damage the unit, although IMO it is unlikely that they
will.
I would try the xmitter test with the thermocouples disconnected from the
RMI inputs to see if there is any change in the effect. Then, I would try
the test with a short (1 inch or so) piece of plain wire shorting each
thermocouple input (with the thermocouples disconnected). Lastly, I would
try the test with the thermocouples connected, but making sure that the
sensors are not in contact with the airframe.
It may be worthwhile to try connecting a small (.01 ufd or so) ceramic
capacitor across the thermocouple inputs to see if the problem improves.
In addition, a capacitor could be connected from each wire of each
thermocouple to ground. In both cases, it is very important that the wires
connecting the capacitors are kept as short as possible.
I have no idea if any of this will work for you - but it may be worthwhile
to give it a try if you're running out of ideas. Sometimes, correcting
noise problems in electrical circuits can be a bit of a black art - what
works in one case may not work in another. Success lies in determining the
source or path of the unwanted signal, and that can be tough.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a great idea?
>
> Thanks for any words of wisdom here,
> Randy Lervold
Randy, thats the way I built mine on the RV-4. I think that I had about
30" between them, but could have used a tad more. I had no problems
though.
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Broom <DBROOM_CEDS(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi fellow RV fans.
As a recent 'subscribee' to the list I am wondering if there are any other
UK based RV builders active on the list.
If there are, and you feel so inclined then please send me some email and
we can debate the Pro's and Con's
of our own efforts. I must say that the volume of list email traffic can be
a bit overwhelming.
David Broom.
email: DBROOM_CEDS(at)compuserve.com
RV6, 99% complete, awaiting final inspection and test.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown <RV4Brown(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pheonix, Ar - RV builders |
I will be visiting Pheonix the week of February 5 through the 10th. I would
enjoy meeting with RV builders in the area, particularly RV4's. I would
definately like to have some serious discussions about the firewall forward
finishing.
I have only had one brief ride in an RV4 four years ago prior to the start
of construction on my project. I could use an RV recharge for motivation to
complete. I will be more than glad to cover all the cost of possible RV
flights. Look forward to meeting. Please contact me directly off list.
Tom Brown RV4 - Fuselage on gear, canopy complete, engine and prop due for
delivery!
RV4Brown(at)aol.com
(800) 331-8006 Daytime work number
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
>Experienced wing builders:
>
>By the end of the month I'll have my empennage complete and will begin my
>-8 wings which are sitting there in the box right now. In trying to plan
>ahead and be as efficient as possible (translation; flying sooner) I put up
>two sets of jig uprights about 3' apart. I put a cross member on one and
>used it for the emp jig while the other one waits theoretically for the
>wings. My thinking at the time (as an inexperienced plebe) was that I could
>build both wings at the same time in mirror image configuration thus making
>each step of construction twice as productive. So here comes the
>question...
>
>Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a great
>idea?
>
>Thanks for any words of wisdom here,
>Randy Lervold
>-8 #80500, just buttoning up rudder
>Vancouver, WA
>
>
Randy,
________________________________________________________________________________
that if you have the space, by all means, build both wings at once. I built
both wings at the same time on my -6A and had no problems. There is no
doubt that I worked more efficiently and completed both wings faster then if
they were built at different times. A local RV-8 builder just finished his
wings. They were built at the same time and he had no problems.
My method of building was to:
1) read the manual.
2) study the plans.
3) build the part.
When construction both together, you only do steps 1 and 2 once. This is a
much more efficient was of building.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele
N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4Brown <RV4Brown(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RE:RV4 - Stainless firewall flange cracks |
FWIW, You may want to check this out on your project! I noticed my
stainless steel firewall flange had small cracks starting around the small
radius on the relief cutouts ( curved top section) . The cracks were small - <
1/8". I ground the material back about 1/8" to remove the indications.
It appears that the relief cutouts were made deeper on one side of the
piece than the other. The deeper recesses that were closer to the bend radius
were the ones that had cracked. (total four or five cutouts exhibited
cracking)
Grinding the cracked material away closer to the bend radius doesn't
thrill me but I don't think I had a choice. I am assuming that the cracks were
caused during forming.
Tom Brown RV4 - fuselage on gear, canopy complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ibid.com> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Russell Duffy wrote:
> A question about used Lycomings: I understand that it's still possible to
> find the occasional mid/high time engine starting round $6k. If you were to
> buy one of these engines, would you trust it enough to just bolt it up and
> fly, or would you want to see it taken apart and inspected (maybe a TOH).
I see good condition first-time runout O-320s going for $5-6K all the time.
I sold my own O-320-H2AD, in 1994, to Air Plains for $6,000 and it had
only 1,000 hours since a G&N overhaul and was running strong. It was a
candidate for being simply bolted onto an RV and flown as-is. In fact,
that's exactly what happened to it!
> How much would you really expect to have in a used engine before flying it?
> I've heard a couple horror stories at fly-ins regarding bargain engines that
> turned out to be very expensive before they ever flew. With the outrageous
> prices that Lycoming charges for parts, it wouldn't take many hidden
> problems to break the bank.
Unfortunately, there are bad people in aviation just like all other walks
of life. Caveat emptor. Here's the criteria that I used, recently, when
shopping for another O-320:
1. First-run engines were best (i.e. those with less than 2500
hours and no prior overhaul history)
2. Second, and even third, run engines were OK provided the seller
had documentation showing the overhaul(s) were performed by
a reputable facility. Documentation showing compliance with
ADs as well as a parts list and yellow tags are an absolute MUST.
3. No history of extended idle time (more than 1 month) unless
there was paper documentation showing the engine had been pickled.
4. Absolutely no prop strikes.
5. Any cylinder(s) with indeterminate hours or more than 4,000 hours
TTSN were considered junk.
6. Good logbooks showing regular maintenance (especially oil changes -
I like to see oil changes every 25 hours no matter what).
7. A good view of the camshaft and/or tappets. I'll remove a
cylinder to see them if necessary. With a cylinder off, you can
also remove the associated connecting rod and get a good look at
the bearings and crankthrow to get an idea about the level of
metal contamination in the engine.
If you follow the above, or get a written guarantee asserting that the above
are in order, you should have little trouble with the engine.
As for rebuild costs, assuming your $6,000 core is a good one, you can be
back in the air for another 2,000 hours for about $3-4000 more. That
would entail:
1. Having the crankcase, crankshaft, camshaft, tappets,
connecting rods, and accessory gears yellow-tagged (i.e.
inspected and certified)
2. Having the cylinders either chromed or bored oversized.
3. Replacing the pistons, rings, and pin plugs.
4. Re-bushing the rocker arms, connecting rods, and crankcase.
5. Replacing the main and rod bearings
6. Replacing the exhaust valves.
7. Replacing the valve guides
8. Replacing or overhauling the magnetos.
All the labor necessary to disassemble and reassemble an aircraft engine is
easily within the capabilities of the average homebuilder. You'll need
nothing more than a standard assortment of tools, a GOOD torque wrench,
and a cylinder base nut wrench. Oh, and the overhaul manual from the
manufacturer.
Farm out all the specialist work to various subcontractors (DIVCO, etc.) and
buy PMA parts where you can (Superior, ECI, etc.)
greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine heaters |
>The Hot Padd heater is an excellent product, the very best solution to
engine >preheat.............
I agree. I just have the oil heater, not the cylinder bands. I plug it in
the night before I fly and throw an old blanket over the cowel, poking part
of it in the intakes (necessary to trap the heat). Next morning, put your
hand in the engine compartment and it is WARM in there. Engine fires on the
3rd/4th blade even on coldest days. High on the "Necessary Equipment" list.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mumert" <davidmumert(at)email.msn.com> |
>
>
><< Well, this time it happened. As I was approximately half-way through
> pouring from the five gallon container into the funnel (the plastic
> funnel is a very wide mouth with a filter cartridge in its center- used
> to quickly fill race cars) the fireworks started. The gasoline ignited
> with a "Swoosh" and I found myself holding a flaming funnel as well as
> the five gallon container which had flames coming from its opening.
> >>
>
Actually it is not the plastic container that is the culprit, it is the
plastic funnel.
The containers are conductive and approved for gas. The funnel is NOT.
You should use a steel funnel.
Also be sure the gas container is sitting on the ground when it is filled.
Some guys with a plastic liner in their truck box have experienced similar
excitement
filling plastic containers while the container was insulated from ground by
the plastic box liner.
Dave Mumert
SDM(at)softoptions.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
I agree with Randy, I built both wings at same time and glad I did. My two wing
jig did not take up a lot of space as I attached two strong pieces of channel alum
beams to the jib post and hung each wing off the end of the channel pieces. It
left approx 36 inches between the wings. I did have to stoop down to get under
the wings to get in the middle, but wasn't any major problem. Also, I figured
if
I worked out a problem with one wing, I would probably have forgotten what it was
I had done if I had to wait 3 months to do it on the other wing.
Ed
RV-6A N494BW awaiting inspection
JRoss10612 wrote:
>
> Randy:
>
> Building both wings at once is a good idea. Many builders simply don't have
> the space, I was lucky enough to have that space and built both wings at the
> same time in my hangar. I placed the jigs in a corner, one on each wall.
> Jon Ross RV-80094 Fuselage
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
> From: IELHAI <IELHAI(at)aol.com>
> I don't think you want to just "bolt" a $ 6000.00 engine on the work of
your
> life. You might find an O320 for that price, but surely safety requires a
tear
> down in spection. I recommend you deal with a reputable engine source
and get
> a guaranty at least for the crank condition.
Irv,
I agree with your cautious approach, one I planned on taking. However,
like others here, I found myself in the "running out of money fast"
category, and simply had to accept the fact I could not afford either
rebuilding a core or purchasing a new engine.
I was able to find a 1100smoh, 2800tt NDH O-320 for $5500. It came from a
very reputable source (recent article in the RVator), was flying until
removed for O-360 upgrade, had all the standard checks (runout,
compression, boroscope, test run, etc.), and came with rebuilt carb/mags
and a new starter/fuel pump. Hope bolting it on works out okay.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
I understand that presumably based on the test, Van has upped the Gross on the
RV-6 to 1650lbs from the old 1600. This is based on the specs in one of Van's
brouchers that I recently got from Van's
Ed
Brian Eckstein wrote:
>
> Regarding gross weight, a while back, Vans tested the 6 wing loading and they
easily passed. This was documented in the RVator. Also mentioned was that they
were analyzing increasing the suggested gross weight.
>
> Has anyone heard anything about this since?
>
> Brian Eckstein
> 6A wings, big tanks done
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
| From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>My thinking at the time (as an inexperienced plebe) was that I
>could build both wings at the same time in mirror image configuration
thus
>making each step of construction twice as productive.
>Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a
>great idea?
Hi Randy. I can give you an absolutely, definite, "it depends".
Building both wings at the same time has the potential to save quite a
bit of time, because once you puzzle out a difficult section that takes 2
hours of "head" time, but only 5 minutes of "hand" time, you can then
eliminate any potential confusion by immediately doing the same process
to the other wing. However, this is a double-edged sword. If you make a
mistake on one wing, chances are good that you will repeat the mistake on
the other wing.
Personally, I think it's a good idea, just be careful.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Diehl <ddiehl(at)silverlink.net> |
Fuel Lube has been recommended as a sealant for the cork gasket on the
fuel tank access covers.
Does anyone know of a source for small quantities in the WA Puget Sound
area?
Don Diehl
and is made by Rayven Inc. 431 N. Griggs
> >St. St. Paul, MN 55104, 612-642-1112 FAX 612-642-9497. It is
> >transparent, adhesive back film which I estimate to be about 1 mil
> >thick. I used type 410 (Clear) and it prints on almost any Laser
> >printer. I used a Hewlett Packard Laserjet II.
>
> I have the a H.P. Inkjet, has anyone printed on this material or any
> other with success?
>
> Have a Great Day!
> denny-->> RV-6
>
>
> Denny,
Inkjet ink is water soluable and not heat fused like the toner in a
laserjet type printer.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts |
Dear engine mounters
The little I know of airplanes and how they work is understood only in laymans
terms. I think I understand that to shim a motor mount could cause the
direction the engine wants to go to be in slight conflict with the direction
the plane would like to go. Additionally it sounds like the engine "sags" on
the mounts after a short time. Does this mean the design accounts for
eventual sag? Is a newly mounted engine in "conflict" until it sags? And if
not, why could it not be shimmed to original (newly mounted) position
resulting in oroginal performance and looks?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts |
Craig,
Its not uncommon for the engine to sag one eighth to a quarter inch
after a couple hundred hours of opperation with new mounts. I think you will
find Installing one washer will bring it back to where it originally was. This
is not changing the cenerline of thrust its only bringing it back to its
orignal location. When I built my cowl I set it up so that the top of the cowl
matched the top of the spinner. My engine dropped about an eigth inch also.
One washer did the trick. My next airplane I will build with the spinner above
the cowl by an eighth inch to start with.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
Before buying a used engine, I'd give Bart Lalonde, of Pro Aero Engines
Inc. a call, at 250-376-1223. He rebuilds engines for certified A/C
and has a whole side business selling rebuilt engines to homebuilders.
By all accounts, very reputable and better prices than you can get
anywhere else. Check RV-list back postings and also RVator article a
couple of issues back for more info.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
<http://www.edt.com/homewing>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RMI Micromonitor-RF interference |
<< I was talking to Ron at RMI the other day trying to clear up a few
problems and he said to use triax instead of coax because it's signal
leakage is a lot lower. Now does anyone know where I can get triax,
nobody in Tallahassee sells it. >>
Actually Triax just means cable with three conductors within a common shield,
Twinax is two wires within a common shield and Coax is one conductor within a
shield.
I think he meant to say RG-142 which is the same as RG-58 (50 ohm) but has two
shields, each one giving >95% coverage. The first one gets 95% and the second
one gets 95% of the 5% that leaked by the first shield, so you get the idea.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< While we're at it, would someone explain to me why we ground our
airplanes while refueling, but never think about doing it to our cars,
lawn mowers, or anything else? >>
It's normally done by the shielded hose and metal nozzle at the station, or a
metal can and spout. In the case of the station, the shielding is grounded to
a stake sunk in the ground at a single point on the premises. In the case of
the metal can, you are sharing the charge, so despite being charged, both are
at the same potential.
If things are plastic you must limit the fuel flow rate to avoid tribocharging
in worst case conditions.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts |
<< Does anybody know how much the spinner will move up by adding one
washer? I need to move my spinner up about 1/8" to make it look
just right. >>
If you measure the horizontal distance from the spinner back flange to the
upper mount divided by the distance you want to move it and the vertical
distance from the upper mount to the lower mount over x you can solve for x in
a proportion.
As an example with hypothetical distances: 30"/.125" = 15"/ x
solving for x = .0625"
therefore in order to move the spinner up .125" you add a shim of 1/16" thick.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< I have a friend that did the same thing on his Luscom. His face got
burned real bad but he is alive. I fuel with a 55 gal fiberglass tank &
12 gal/min pump. I have never put a ground in the tank to the truck or
aircraft. I do ground the metal tip to the exhaust prior to filling. I
keep the nozzle touching the metal ring in the bonanza while fueling. I
think the ignition starts from the static of the flowing gas. I guess my
question to the list is Should I ground the fuel to the truck, the truck
to the plane, & the nozzle to the truck??? >>
I have a great deal of experience with ESD (Electro-Static Discharge),
specifically MIL-STD-1686 and DOD-HDBK-263 and I can tell you that the real
problem with the PE plastic cans and very dry air is that the fuel, as it
moves, will tribocharge the plastic and can generate a spark. The drier the
air and the greater the velocity/volume of the fuel, the greater the
tribocharging will be. This is the same mechanism that causes you to get
zapped from a door knob as you shuffle your feet across a carpet in dry air
conditions. The door knob doesn't need to be grounded either, it just needs
to represent a surplus of electrons relative to your body.
I would suggest that, if you want to be absolutely sure that this doesn't
happen to you, you limit the materials to those which can be grounded. That
means conductive (metal or carbon loaded plastic) materials only. Further,
all fuel tanks must be grounded (bonded) to the airframe and all supply tanks
must be grounded to the same point prior to opening the fuel caps. Composite
planes must have grounded wicks going deep into the fuel and tied to a
grounding point for attaching the grounding cable.
Aerial refueling uses the same principles or disaster can result.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Holes for Wires in Stick |
Where is the best place to bring the wires out of the stick for the
PTT switch and trim switch? What size of hole is best?
I thought a good place might be opposite the bushing (?)
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Thanks for the info, Dave.
I had always assumed that plastic containers approved for gasoline were
treated so that a static charge could be disappated by grounding them, but never
knew for certain. I would have assumed that the funnel which is used to fill race
cars would have the same properties, but apparently not. In any case, I believe
I
will stick with metal containers, because I know they are conductive and should
be
relatively safe after grounding them. Just can't tell by looking at the plastic.
But, I have always filled the containers out of the vehicle and on the ground -
like your are suppose to do and never had a problem. Have hear of folks filling
them in vehicles (insulated from the ground) and having similar problems. Don't
think my luck or heart can stand that kind of excitment.
Ed
Dave Mumert wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> The gasoline ignited
> > with a "Swoosh" and I found myself holding a flaming funnel as well as
> > the five gallon container which had flames coming from its opening.
> > >>
> >
>
> Actually it is not the plastic container that is the culprit, it is the
> plastic funnel.
> The containers are conductive and approved for gas. The funnel is NOT.
> You should use a steel funnel.
>
> Also be sure the gas container is sitting on the ground when it is filled.
> Some guys with a plastic liner in their truck box have experienced similar
> excitement
> filling plastic containers while the container was insulated from ground by
> the plastic box liner.
>
> Dave Mumert
> SDM(at)softoptions.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< Actually it is not the plastic container that is the culprit, it is the
plastic funnel.
The containers are conductive and approved for gas. The funnel is NOT.
You should use a steel funnel. >>
I don't think this is true. They may be approved for gas as you say, but in
order to make an insulator (plastic in this case) a conductor (10^5 ohms/sq or
less) you must carbon load it or metalize it. This makes all these materials
black or silver in color.
If it's not black or metalized, it's not conductive is the rule. Now it may
be dissipative (10^5 to 10^9 ohms/sq) or antistatic (10^9 to 10^14 ohms/sq)
and still be another color but you would have to do surface resistivity tests
to determine this. Either way, why risk it, use metal.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie <ckfiber(at)dallas.net> |
I went from 60-70 mesages a day to 0! I did not unsuscribe, is this my
problem or is everybody affected?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: engine heaters |
>
>Can you leave an engine heater plugged in all the time??? Will it damage
the
>oil in any way?? Does heating the oil pan but not the rest of the engine
cause
>condensation in the cylinder area???
>
>
>--- Forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>From: Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com>
>
>
>
>---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>--
>Jeffrey S. Davis
Jeff:
I have an Easy Heat oil pan heater installed on my Citabria and I leave it
continuously plugged in (this is the second winter I have done this). This
particular unit has a thermostat built in and is designed for such use (in
fact the Easy Heat folks have a test unit that has been operating
continuously for years). This comes from a recommendation from Darrel
Bolduc of Bolduc Aviation in Minneapolis (a large and highly regarded engine
rebuilder). I wrap the cowling and seal off the air inlets with a big old
moving blanket (you can buy engine blankets from people like Tanis if you
want to spend $$). The air temp (not the engine oil temp) measured inside
my cowling is generally around 50 degrees F when the OAT is around 15-20
degrees F. I have had no oil carbonization or other problems using this
technique.
Ideally from what people have told me, it may be best to be able to turn on
the oil pan heater 4-5 hours before flying and then be sure the oil temp
reaches a high enough value to eliminate the condensation. (My hanger
neighbor has an engine heater hooked up to a telephone switch... he phones
his heater and turns it on several hours before flight). I personally
feel, leaving it on all the time creates a consistently warm engine and
minimizes condensation.
Doug Weiler, MN Wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
>
I fuel with a 55 gal fiberglass tank & 12 gal/min pump. I have never put
a ground in the tank to the truck or aircraft. I do ground the metal tip
to the exhaust prior to filling. I keep the nozzle touching the metal
ring in the bonanza while fueling.
I think the ignition starts from the static of the flowing gas. I guess
my question to the list is Should I ground the fuel to the truck, the
truck to the plane, & the nozzle to the truck??? >>
Don Jordan~6A wings~
donspawn(at)juno.com
>
>I have a great deal of experience with ESD (Electro-Static Discharge),
>specifically MIL-STD-1686 and DOD-HDBK-263 and I can tell you that the
>real
>problem with the PE plastic cans and very dry air is that the fuel, as
>it
>moves, will tribocharge the plastic and can generate a spark. The
>drier the
>air and the greater the velocity/volume of the fuel, the greater the
>tribocharging will be. This is the same mechanism that causes you to
>get
>zapped from a door knob as you shuffle your feet across a carpet in
>dry air
>conditions. The door knob doesn't need to be grounded either, it just
>needs
>to represent a surplus of electrons relative to your body.
>
>I would suggest that, if you want to be absolutely sure that this
>doesn't
>happen to you, you limit the materials to those which can be grounded.
> That
>means conductive (metal or carbon loaded plastic) materials only.
>Further,
>all fuel tanks must be grounded (bonded) to the airframe and all
>supply tanks
>must be grounded to the same point prior to opening the fuel caps.
>Composite
>planes must have grounded wicks going deep into the fuel and tied to a
>grounding point for attaching the grounding cable.
>
>Aerial refueling uses the same principles or disaster can result.
>
>-GV
Thanks George(?)
I am planning to run a copper rod to the bottom of the tank & ground to
the truck. Then build a ground cable to the plane from the truck. If i
piggy back the cable on the hose, The bonanza has RCA plugs on each side
of the fuselage for grouning near each tank. My pump sucks from a PVC
pipe in the fiberglass tank.
Don Jordan~6A wings~
donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bubbajoe <bubbajoe(at)earthlink.net> |
I will be on a business trip to Irving and was wondering if any rv'ers
are in the area and would welcome a visit? I will be there from
Jan.25-30. and will also be in the Sherman area the same time.Thnx and
pls respond off list. Thnx Richard Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Lettering Material/Printers |
> > I have the a H.P. Inkjet, has anyone printed on this material or any other
with success? denny-->> RV-6
> >
> > Denny,
> Inkjet ink is water soluable and not heat fused like the toner in a
> laserjet type printer.
> Ed Cole
David Carter adds - "Us folks with inkjet printers (water soluable
output) can simply save our instrument panel lettering to a diskette
file and take to a buddy or business with Laserjet printer."
David Carter, RV-6 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com> |
Charlie
I couldn't lay my hands on my data sheets but as I remember brass
and aluminum are very bad in a marine enviroment from galvanic
corrosion and have experienced this on my sailboat. stainless or
monel shim stock would be prefered.
Wayne Bonesteel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnes, Eric" <eric.barnes(at)tandem.com> |
| Subject: | Engine mounts - follow on queston |
How about taking the question a step further? What happens to the sag,
or shimmed out sag, in flight? Unless it's for looks, alignment in
flight is what matters anyway. If the cowling is built to account for
sag, but the sag only is a factor on the ground...?
EB
-----Original Message-----
From: DenClay [SMTP:DenClay(at)aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 09:15
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine mounts
Dear engine mounters
The little I know of airplanes and how they work is understood only in
laymans terms. I think I understand that to shim a motor mount could
cause the direction the engine wants to go to be in slight conflict with
the direction the plane would like to go. Additionally it sounds like
the engine "sags" on the mounts after a short time. Does this mean the
design accounts for eventual sag? Is a newly mounted engine in
"conflict" until it sags? And if not, why could it not be shimmed to
original (newly mounted) position resulting in oroginal performance and
looks?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
>Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a great
>idea?
>
>Randy Lervold
>-8 #80500, just buttoning up rudder
>Vancouver, WA
>
Randy,
I built both wings at the same time. 1. This was definitely faster. 2. You
need twice as many clecoes but worth it. 3. Ironically as mentioned by
others, you have a tendency to make the same mistake on both wings because
you do a few steps on wing 1, repeat them on wing 2, do another step or two
and discover a better way to do the previous steps but you have already
done all these steps to both wings.
Some other considerations:
1. My space between the jigs was about 3.5 feet - the wings were jigged
parallel to each other. This worked ok but could have been more.
2. The wings can be oriented relative to each other a number of ways i.e.
parallel with both tips pointing south, one north one south, perpendicular,
etc. I discussed this at length with my RV building friends and we could
not come up with a definite advantage for any particular orientation.
My wings were oriented parallel with the tips north and south. This worked
well for me because I visualized then as being positioned relative to each
other as they are when assembled on the finished plane. I did not discover
any advantage to other orientations while building both wings.
3. Walking around the wings to get to the other wing was not a problem.
4. I borrowed a 16 lb counter balanced back-riveting jig used on the top
skins. By doing both wings at the same time, I only had to get and return
this large apparatus once.
Bob Haan
bobh(at)cdac.com
Portland, OR
503-579-2729
RV6A 24461 Fuse out of jig, working on forward deck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)hfsmobility.com |
Hey Don,
I just bought a container. It will last me 3 lifetimes. You pay the shipping
and I'll send ya some. I hear that Bob Skinner gave up his fuel lube empire
so I'll steal his business.
Eric Henson
Top skins going on.
eric.henson(at)cendantmobility.com
----------
From: Don Diehl
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Lube
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 9:33AM
Fuel Lube has been recommended as a sealant for the cork gasket on the
fuel tank access covers.
Does anyone know of a source for small quantities in the WA Puget Sound
area?
Don Diehl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n24tt(at)juno.com (lonny a Lohrman) |
Just your problem, I get plenty of email. Wonder whats up?
>
>I went from 60-70 mesages a day to 0! I did not unsuscribe, is this my
>problem or is everybody affected?
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
Hi Randy,
I built both my 6A wings at the same time, and would do it again the same
way.
Cecil
writes:
>
>Experienced wing builders:
>
>By the end of the month I'll have my empennage complete and will begin
>my
>-8 wings which are sitting there in the box right now. In trying to
>plan
>ahead and be as efficient as possible (translation; flying sooner) I
>put up
>two sets of jig uprights about 3' apart. I put a cross member on one
>and
>used it for the emp jig while the other one waits theoretically for
>the
>wings. My thinking at the time (as an inexperienced plebe) was that I
>could
>build both wings at the same time in mirror image configuration thus
>making
>each step of construction twice as productive. So here comes the
>question...
>
>Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a
>great
>idea?
>
>Thanks for any words of wisdom here,
>Randy Lervold
>-8 #80500, just buttoning up rudder
>Vancouver, WA
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <hatters(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
In message <199801052226_MC2-2E32-4BCE(at)compuserve.com>, Randy Lervold
writes
>Experienced wing builders:
>
>I could build both wings at the same time in mirror image configuration
thus making
>each step of construction twice as productive. So here comes the
>question...
>
>Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a great
>idea?
>Thanks for any words of wisdom here,
>Randy Lervold
>-8 #80500, just buttoning up rudder
>Vancouver, WA
>
Randy
I'm doing just that and the only problem I have run into is I'm running
out of clecos. Luckily I can borrow a couple of hundred.
RV8 80274
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
<< Am I asking for trouble tackling both wings at once, or is this a great
idea? >>
Sounds like a pretty good idea, my friend, if you are that anxious to fly,
providing, of course, that you are not dyslexic.(No offense to our dyslexic
friends) If you felt "comfortable" building the empennage and had your work
eyeballed by folks that have done it before, Why Not?
James Nice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joseph.wiza(at)mcione.com> |
Im trying to install the F605 bulkhead and am trying to locate the F657
gussets that fit between F605 and the longeron (not in plastic bag 654P).
Also (electric flaps) Does anyone know what bag EF631 mounting blocks for
the aft side of F605 bulkhead. Also I have a wd613 flap control weldment
do I need this if I'm using elect flaps. F Justing calls it a wd631 flap
I think they are on and the same.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cafgef <Cafgef(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Problems with the RV6 Plans;electric flaps and cowl attach |
<<
The error is interference of the canopy latch cross-rod with the
electric FLAP actuator. >>
I ran into the cross-rod when I installed my electric flaps also. My work-
around involved riviting a 1/4 inch thick shim to the F605F channel tolower
the attachment point and added a bracket. The shim was 2"longx1.5"wide and
1/4"thich. I attached the bracket to the shim slightly aft of the edge of the
F-605f U channel. This allowed the electric motor channel to attach behind
and below the canopy latch cross rod. I put plate nuts in the bracket to allow
removal of the electric motor channel. I can just get a screwdriver between
the F-605 f and the electric motor channel.
_______
I
I <---F-605F
I <----aft
____ I
I______I <---1/4 shim (block?)
\\ <--- bracket
\\
\\ <---electric motor channel
First attempt at drawing. Probably obvious.
BY THE WAY. There is a slight misleading diminsion on sheet 31, section E-E
concerning the .032 shim required to adjust the match-up between the forward
top deck and the top cowling. It may require more shim. How about .080 shim
to lower the piano hindge. Since I don't want to drill out the hindges and
redo all the stuff, I'm sanding down the gell coat in a 4" wide band to taper
into the top deck. This is at the suggestion of Van's to get rid of the step
between the cowl and the front deck that I have due to not enough shim.
Gene Francis RV6-A
Copper tape antenna on inside of canopy works
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Jerry Springer wrote:
> Gee Bob is there a discount for RV-Listers? ;-)
>
Absolutely. My competitors sell oil heaters similar to ours for the Lyc
0-320/360 for $169 direct. Mine is $115 direct, so you're getting a 30%
discount.
Tanis sells their multipoint system for the 0-320/360 for $355-879
depending on how many CHT's you monitor. Our multipoint system (oil &
cylinder heat combination) costs $304. Big discount.
Seriously, my philosophy is to give folks a good bang for the buck - ALL
the folks.
Bob
rimary failed closed.
I know a lot of folks use the automotive heat pads on aircraft, and they
may work fine. However, if you do want to use one I would recommend
that you check the oil sump surface temperature generated by the pad at
the highest ambient temperature you plan to use it. Per Shell Oil, it
should not exceed 300 deg. F or the oil will be degraded or charred.
Bits of charred oil might block oil passages and cause engine damage.
Part of getting FAA approval of our heaters was proving to them the oil
would not be overheated under any circumstances.
While you have the freedom to install anything you want on an
Experimental, on certified aircraft no parts may be installed unless FAA
approved by STC, TSO, Form 337, or PMA. Installing an unapproved
automotive heater would legally make your aircraft unairworthy.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
Russell Duffy wrote:
> Hi all,
> My RV-8 will have to be a fairly economy model I'm afraid. As much as I'd
> like to bolt up a brand new Lycoming, there's no way I can financially
> justify taking a second mortgage on my house for one. As a previous RX-7
> owner, I love rotary engines. I've followed Tracy Crook's project with much
> interest. I'm convinced that this would make a great engine for my plane,
> but I'm also realistic enough to see the downsides to it (extra time, not
> considered as reliable by the general public, and possible re-sale
> problems). In the end, the lowest $$$ option will probably win.
> Realistically, I'll probably end up with a used Lycoming.
>
> A question about used Lycomings: I understand that it's still possible to
> find the occasional mid/high time engine starting round $6k. If you were to
> buy one of these engines, would you trust it enough to just bolt it up and
> fly, or would you want to see it taken apart and inspected (maybe a TOH).
> How much would you really expect to have in a used engine before flying it?
> I've heard a couple horror stories at fly-ins regarding bargain engines that
> turned out to be very expensive before they ever flew. With the outrageous
> prices that Lycoming charges for parts, it wouldn't take many hidden
> problems to break the bank.
Hello Russell;
Keep looking. I found a note on the bulletin board at the airport for
an 0-320 with 1600 TT and the original logs for $5000. I took the
cylinders off with the help of a A&P, we inspected the cylinders,
valves, rings, pistons, ... Clydesdale put new valve guides in it for
$250.00. We reassembled it with all the original parts except for the
valve guides. We even used the old piston rings. I now have 195 hours
on it and expect to get 800 more before a major. On the first
conditional inspection, the compression in all the cylinders was 75 or
greater. A real strong engine.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tip Plugs |
MAlexan533 wrote:
What have most of you found to be the best way to fill the open ends of
thefiberglass tips on the elevators and rudder?
Von,
What I did, and IMHO, it worked very well, was:
1) Leave tips long, do not trim the ends to fit. 2) Mark each tip where they
should be cut. 3) Cut template out of aluminum sheet stock. 3) Fit Alum. template
to the inside of the tip. 4) Hot melt glue in place on the scrap side of the
template (part your going to remove to make the tip fit). 5) Cut fiberglass to
fit
inside tip, and overlapping onto the sides of the tip. 6) Fiberglass cut peices
in
place. 7) When cured, remove alum. template and excess tip. 8) Sand corners
smooth.
I found that the aluminum provided a very smooth surface and the resulting
fiberglass finish needed little sanding.
Good Luck!
Keith Warfield
RV-6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
I might mention that when I fill my plastic containers, even on the ground, if
I hold the back of my hand about 1/4 inch away from the container, the hairs
on the back of my hand stand up from the static. This worried me enough that
when I got home I set the containers set on the ground (concrete) for two
days, and all static was gone. So now I plan ahead and get my fuel early, at
least two days in advance. This has just been my observation, for what it is
worth.
Von Alexander
RV-4 N107RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: I teach riveting |
If you use a dimple die set, it is impossible to dimple too much because once
the dies meet there is nowhere to go. You can machine countersink too much
very easily. Most problems are caused by not using a backing plate to keep
the pilot centered in the hole as it cuts. Rather than shave the rivets that
are just a bit too high, try using a 3M Roloc pad in a die grinder and buff
them smooth.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | Builders in Central Oregon |
Are there currently any builders in the Central Oregon area?
Regards---Mike Comeaux
mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument panel |
I did this on the left side of my pannel. I used 10 of the Cessna type rubber
mounts. I did it for two reasons: 1) reduce vibration on the instruments and
2) quick(er) access behind the pannel.
I'd do it again.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
I found an engine from PennYan for my RV with about 1,000 TTSN. Engine came
out for a Super-hawk conversion. Did a top overhaul for peace of mind. Total
engine cost (1993) $5,300 including TOH from Penn Yan.
The engine deals are still out there, you have to look under every rock. I
had 3 companies that I called on every month for two years before I found a
winner. Buy the time a struck a deal with Penn Yan they all knew me. I think
they gave me a good price just to get rid of me! Good people to work with.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>> I think the ignition starts from the static of the flowing gas. I
>guess
>my
>> question to the list is Should I ground the fuel to the truck, the
>truck
>> to the plane, & the nozzle to the truck???
>>
>> Don Jordan~6A wings
>> donspawn(at)juno.com
>>
>
>The ignition can start from static of flowing gas (triboelectric
>effect) or
>charge transport due to the plane and truck being at different
>potentials
>(voltages). The rubber tires on the truck can aid charging. The
>ideal is
>to have plane, nozzle and truck at the same potential, and keep them
>there,
>before any gas flows. The ground line from the truck to the plane's
>exhaust stack and the woven mesh gas hose cover ensure all are at the
>same
>potential.
>
Some one recently told me that there have been some accidents documented
that resulted from plastic type fuel containers sliding around in the
back of trucks that had plastic bed liners. They had a static charge
built up from sliding around on the bed liner.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin Plate nuts (?) |
<< merely tack rivets to hold the skin until it is securely riveted
later. >>
you mean, until the plate nuts are installed later. The wings are supposed to
be *removable* without drilling out any rivets!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: I teach riveting |
writes:>--> posted by: James Cone
>If you use a dimple die set, it is impossible to dimple too much because
once
>the dies meet there is nowhere to go.
Thats what I was thinking.
>Rather than shave the rivets that are just a bit too high, try using a
3M Roloc >pad in a die grinder and buff them smooth.
I have 3 different grits of pads I got at Kerrville that fit on my die
grinder. THey are like scotchbrite. Is Roloc a sandpaper or a scotch type
of pad?
I saved your artical on driving rivets. My buddy & I seem to be pushing
to hard against each other. If we ever get the fuel tank on I am planning
on trying your technique on the skins. .
I marked all the rivets to drill out & had about 20 to polish or grind
down. Before I started I thought I would try to squeeze them. In about 15
minutes I had all of them squeezed down perfect. What a surprize? The
other tank did the same thing, but I did it myself. This tank I waited on
Lee to help & put extra force on the squeezer when setting the rivets. I
guess the proseal had something to do with it. I blame everything on the
proseal.
Another thing I have found. If I keep masking tape on my drive head, I
don't have any marks on the skin.
Thanks again for your help JIm:
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Derek Reed" <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: F605 bulkhead |
----------
> From: joseph.wiza <joseph.wiza(at)mcione.com>
> To: rvlist
> Subject: RV-List: F605 bulkhead
> Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 5:01 PM
>
>
> Im trying to install the F605 bulkhead and am trying to locate the F657
Hi to all posting Info for builders.
It would be greatly appreciated if the RV type [4-6-6A-8 etc.] could be
noted in the subject line or at the beginning of the post,this would be of
great help to determine if the message is relevant to the craft we are
building.For instance I am building an RV6A but don't have a clue if this
info would be of help to me when I get to the fuselage stage.
Great stuff, but a little more info would really help.
Thanks to all
Derek Reed Grants Pass OR[ wings-RV6A]
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Lettering Material |
The self adhesive film also works wonderfully when used in a plain paper
copier. You still need a laser printed original to get the best
character definition however.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Vanremog wrote:
>
> I have a great deal of experience with ESD (Electro-Static Discharge)...
>
> I would suggest that, if you want to be absolutely sure that this doesn't
> happen to you, you limit the materials to those which can be grounded. That
> means conductive (metal or carbon loaded plastic) materials only. Further,
> all fuel tanks must be grounded (bonded) to the airframe and all supply tanks
> must be grounded to the same point prior to opening the fuel caps. Composite
> planes must have grounded wicks going deep into the fuel and tied to a
> grounding point for attaching the grounding cable.
What is your opinion about using a plastic 5 gal can with a conducting
wire "dipstick" inserted into the fuel in the can, and jumpered to the
lip of a metal funnel which is contacting the aircraft? What if you
hold the plastic can with bare hands, and somehow bond yourself to the
aircraft (maybe a wrist strap like we used at Delco Electronics when
handling circuit boards)?
Guess I'm not sure if the spark is jumping from the plastic can to the
aircraft, or from the fuel in the can to the aircraft. Does it make a
difference with respect to bonding?
Bob Reiff
ld the heat in. Both of these will give you more
uniform heating. If everything is the same temp you can't get
condensation.
Personally, on my Cherokee 235 I use a multipoint system, foam rubber
plugs in the inlets, and an old blanket thrown over the cowling, and I
leave it plugged in continuously. If I had just an oil heater, I would
not leave it on continuously, but would plug it in a few hours or
overnight before flying.
As far as damaging the oil, some oil sump heaters on the market will
not, but some might. This is a function of watt density/heater surface
temp. Per Shell, temps over 300 will damage the oil. Our's runs about
200 deg. I tested one competitive oil heater sold for aircraft use that
gives 400+.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>How could I install a primer? Where would I connect to the fuel line? Could
one >use pressure from the fuel pump to "squirt" fuel directly into the
engine? How?
I have a gascolator, but you can do this without one. I have a solenoid
activated primer, priming the front two cylinders. I ran a line from the
solenoid (see archives or ACS catalog) to the gascolator and a line to each
cylinder. You can run a line to the solenoid from a "T" fitting on the fuel
line forward of the firewall. No primer lines inside; I like it.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< What is your opinion about using a plastic 5 gal can with a conducting
wire "dipstick" inserted into the fuel in the can, and jumpered to the
lip of a metal funnel which is contacting the aircraft?>>
The real problem is that gasoline (unless it contains alcohols which are
hygroscopic) and plastic are insulators. When they tribocharge, some areas
become positive (fewer electrons) and some become negative (a surplus of
electrons). You can read these charges with a common static meter having a
scale which goes positive and negative.
The only way to neutralize this static buildup on insulators is by moisture or
ionization. By moisture, I mean that wet things dissipate static because
surface water causes some routine surface contaminates (salts and such) to
ionize in solution creating a conductive or dissipative path which will
equalize charges. Further, left to its own devices, moisture in the air will
dissipate charges over a period of minutes or hours depending on the relative
humidity.
Ionization is produced by radioactive, corona discharge and certain other
methods. Fan type Ionizers using an alpha particle emitter (such as
Polonium-210) are used to flood the charged areas of insulators with air
having equal quantity of negative and positive ions. The positive ions seek
the negatively charged areas and vice versa.
In short, the wicks are only marginally effective, but are probably better
than nothing when used in composite aircraft.
<< What if you
hold the plastic can with bare hands, and somehow bond yourself to the
aircraft (maybe a wrist strap like we used at Delco Electronics when
handling circuit boards)?>>
Once again, untreated plastics are insulators so the charge cannot really
drain thru you (since you are mostly water you ARE considered a fair conductor
in series).
<< Guess I'm not sure if the spark is jumping from the plastic can to the
aircraft, or from the fuel in the can to the aircraft. Does it make a
difference with respect to bonding? >>
No. Bonding works in both directions. Electric arcs are opportunistic. If
the right conditions exist for a static charge to dissipate rapidly it will,
just as lightning -- seemingly random but a slave to well defined physics.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mounts - follow on queston |
<< How about taking the question a step further? What happens to the sag,
or shimmed out sag, in flight? Unless it's for looks, alignment in
flight is what matters anyway. If the cowling is built to account for
sag, but the sag only is a factor on the ground...? >>
Eric,
I wont say it has no affect to shim with one small washer, but I will
say that I could not notice any differance in the flight carachtaristics of my
bird.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
>
>> I also knew in the back of
>> my mind that there was a reason I push my bird outside before fueling.
>
>
>I know the point being made here - just burn the airplane and not the
>entire hanger. On the other hand, I wonder if static is actually MORE
>likely with the aircraft outside in the wind. Air movement over a
>surface can also create a static charge. 15 years ago I was under my
>wife's car changing the starter, in the parking lot of our apartment
>building. I noticed everytime the back of my hand touched the car I felt
>tingling - static electricity from the wind blowing over the car I
>guessed.
>
>I also experience it sometimes when I get out of Debbie's minivan after
>driving it. It's a Chev Lumina APV which has a plastic body. When I get
>out and touch the door to shut it I get a good shock almost everytime.
>This does not happen with my steel bodied Blazer.
>
>Bob Reiff
>
This is why Lumina APV's (Dustbusters as we call them) are supposed to have
a strap under the car that drags on the ground to eliminate static build up.
Most people take it for some piece of something falling off and remove it.
You might check to see if it's there. Just a sidebar....
>
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Rudder final assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Build both wings at once? |
In a message dated 1/6/98 7:11:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, bobh(at)cdac.com
writes:
> I borrowed a 16 lb counter balanced back-riveting jig used on the top
> skins. By doing both wings at the same time, I only had to get and return
> this large apparatus once.
Please describe this contraption for me.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
--- Forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 02:19:24 EST
Subject: Re: RV-List: Hot Time
<< What is your opinion about using a plastic 5 gal can with a conducting
wire "dipstick" inserted into the fuel in the can, and jumpered to the
lip of a metal funnel which is contacting the aircraft?>>
The auto industry has been playing with a new tire compond that improves
traction and reduces rolling resistance. This compound replaces some of the
carbon black with silica. The result is a tire with improved performance but
with more electrical resistance. The problems that have been experenced are
loss of AM radio reception and "toll both shock" both are caused from a build
up of charge on the vehicle that can no longer be disipated to the ground thru
the tires. The problem appears to be worse on vehicles with plastic body
panels. I believe the plastic panels will generate more of a charge as they
pass thru the air. Another good reason to build a metal airplane??
Question is do aircraft tires allow the charge to disapate or do they
insulate??
---End of forwarded mail from rv-list(at)matronics.com
--
Jeffrey S. Davis
Senior Research Engineer
Advance Vehicle Technology
Ford Motor Company
Phone (313)845-5224 Fax (313)845-4781
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Orndorff G <OrndorffG(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dallas RV'ers |
Richard,
If you would like to visit Ft Worth give me a call 817-439-3280....George
Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Thompson <THOMPSON(at)techneglas.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hot Time -Reply |
A friend forwarded your letter about the airplane fire starting during
refueling. It is very important that the fuel can be in constant contact
with the airplane. Static electricity builds up from the liquid flowing. If
allowed the charge could build up until you get the sudden discharge (the
spark). I would not recommend using a funnel to refill the tank. Use a
gas can with a spout. Keep the spout in contact with the gas tank
opening.
If the plane was just flown it could have some charge. The fuel can and
plane need to be at the same potential so that you do not have a spark
when you make initial contact. I set my gas can on the wing for a few
moments before fueling.
Did you know that dry winter air does not dissipate static charge as well
as moist air?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Thompson <THOMPSON(at)techneglas.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hot Time -Reply |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: FAA requirements versus assistance |
>Thanks for the clarification. I've been offered a "builder assistance slot"
>where I go to an experienced Glastar builder's workshop. He's set himself
>up with precision jigs and fixtures for the purpose of speeding other
>builders' Glastar construction. I would be getting a thorough education in
>all aspects of the contruction while participating in the manual work to
>FAA requirements. This kind of build apparently meets the spirit and letter
>of the law per OSH discussions, and ought to be encouraged it seems to me.
I should clarify that the discussions I mentioned were simply
that . . . a gathering of interested, critical thinkers who were
trying to balance the public good with the builder's needs.
How your favorite bureaucrat chooses to interpret and apply
the FARs is entirely another matter. This is why getting your
man on board early is important.
An equally important aspect of dealing with regulators is to
exude confidence in what you're doing . . . it's an extension
of the old saw, "never ask a bureaucrat a question until you
already know the answer." The first and only time I walked into
an FAA office asking what was necessary to satisfy a "requirement"
I got the book thrown at me. The next time I went in with a plan
and good engineering rational for the proposal. My workload to
complete the task was probably half of the first.
However you choose to get your airplane put together, the goal
is not to add up a bunch of logged hours and claim compliance to
the 51% rule. Rather to have enough documentation and display
of personal confidence that the regulator is convinced you
know what you're doing. They say dogs smell fear. Well, regulators
smell ignorance and uncertainty . . . too much suggestion of either
can trigger an inquisition.
>I'll be signing up for your electronics course in Northern California. I've
>been reading your articles. You issued a challenge to find errors in your
>statements. I've been looking hard but haven't found any errors yet. (A
>couple of "matters of opinion," maybe).
Thank you . . . but keep a sharp lookout. Many folk perceive my signature
banner to be a bit pompous. I have to acknowlege that I am the originator
of very little what I've learned over the years. If I take on the
task of sharing that knowledge, I have an obligation to be ready to
question everything, no matter how long it's been "acceptable" as fact.
Folks on these list servers are very important to the critical review
effort.
> . . . . . You do a good job of refuting a lot
>of mythology that's grown up around electronics design and construction. (I
>do in general electronics what you do in aviation electronics).
It's sad to realize how many of the laws of physics get rewritten to
accomodate some theory. Worse yet to observe how may effects are
erroneously or weakly linked to some causation. My years of work with
Ken Razak in the accident analysis business has been a real asset;
one of our most important tasks was to analyze and debunk bad science
in the other side's "experts" . . . a very useful skill indeed.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . . >
< Show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert l. wadsworth" <110014.1237(at)compuserve.com> |
index rv-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort) |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
WoodardRod wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am in the process of selling my RV-6A and am wondering if anyone has run
> > into any liability
> > concerns regarding homebuilt aircraft. I have heard of people who would not
> > sell a homebuilt
> > because of the danger of lawsuits in case of an accident. Is this something
> > to worry about?
> > Is it different in Canada than the US? Comments???
> >
> > Ted French
> > RV-6A flying
>
> Hi Ted:
>
> Finally, a question I'm at least marginally capable of answering. :-)
>
> I get clients in my office at least once a week who want to know what they can
> do to keep from being sued. The short answer is "nothing." I used to tell them
Rod: This is a little late coming to the "liability party", but a
conversation at Oshkosh last year with the head underwriter for Avemco
brought out a couple of points that should be verified or refuted. I
paraphrase and offer them for what they may be worth. The first point
went something like this: Since the aircraft we build are not for the
purpose of "entering the stream of commerce" we, unlike the Beech's,
Cessna's and Pipers', as builders are not held to the strict liability
standards that they are. We would be held to the standards of general
liability. We would not be covered by the 18 year liability tail that
the "stream of commerce" people are. In event of a lawsuit, we would
not be held to the more onerous standards. This would not relieve us
from liability for known, but concealed, defects. His second point was
that in Avemco's experience, such lawsuits are not much of a problem. I
realize that even if it is not much of a problem statistically, a
lawsuit against ones self is still a problem. Comments please.
He also indicated that Avemco offers liability tail insurance, the
length of which is based on the length of time the aircraft has been
insured with Avemco. We did not discuss costs.
Gordon Comfort
N3363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
> > ... It's a Chev Lumina APV which has a plastic body. When I get
> >out and touch the door to shut it I get a good shock almost everytime.
> >
> >
> >Bob Reiff
> >
> This is why Lumina APV's are supposed to have
> a strap under the car that drags on the ground to eliminate static build up.
> Most people take it for some piece of something falling off and remove it.
> You might check to see if it's there. Just a sidebar....
>
> Jon Elford
We bought it new in '92 and it never had a strap. Perhaps they added it
to later models in response to complaints. Or people blowing themselves
up while refueling.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
I would suggest bending the flange out of the way as stronger than cutting it.
hal
> The elevator achieves less than half the recommended travel before the
> horn hits the lower flange of the HS spar. I have considered one of the
> following remedies:
>
> 2) Cut a relief in the spar flange. Shouldn't be a structural
> consideration since we are talking about only the extreme 1/2" of the
> inboard end.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com, k9oc(at)juno.com, lenberg1(at)juno.com,
ka9eox(at)juno.com, gehring(at)alaska.net, simpsond(at)win.bright.net,
wa9a(at)aol.com, cessna-140(at)lists.best.com
| Subject: | [Fwd: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections |
to
ISPs]
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------4D854104D89
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
--------------4D854104D89
by westbyserver.westby.mwt.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA12023
by node21.cwnet.frontiernet.net (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA43390
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:15:57 -0500
From: Larry Kenney <lkenney(at)slip.net> (by way of John Cunliffe <cunliffe(at)frontiernet.net>)
Subject: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections to
ISPs
Here's some news about some potentially expensive legislation being
considered by the FCC. I'm going to send the FCC email with my
opinion and I hope you might want to do the same. The information
below was forwarded to me by a friend and had about four pages of
headers attached, which I have removed.
I suggest you forward this message to everyone you know who uses the
Internet! We can't let this sneak by!
Larry Kenney
lkenney(at)slip.net
http://www.choisser.com/
**************************************************************
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:30:06 -0800
From: Ann Merrill <amerrill(at)slip.net>
Subject: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections to ISPs
The following message came to me from a retired executive of the
Southern Connecticut Bell Telephone Company. It seems that local phone
companies throughout the United States are supporting legislation that
would impose "per minute" charges for our connection to Internet
Service Providers.
I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter.
Currently under review by the FCC: Your local telephone company
has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the
operation of the telephone network. It is my belief that internet
usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional per
minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments.
Responses must be received by February 13, 1998.
Send your comments to isp(at)fcc.gov and tell them what you think.
Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to
sneak it in just under the wire for legislation. Let everyone you know
hear about this one. Get the e-mail address of everyone you can
think of and ask them to e-mail to: isp(at)fcc.gov
------
Submissions: vhf(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
Human list administrator: vhf-approval(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
--------------4D854104D89--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
> >
> >
> > > I am in the process of selling my RV-6A and am wondering if anyone has run
> > > into any liability
> > > concerns regarding homebuilt aircraft. I have heard of people who would
not
> > > sell a homebuilt
> >
> > Hi Ted:
> >
> > Finally, a question I'm at least marginally capable of answering. :-)
> >
> > I get clients in my office at least once a week who want to know what they
can
> > do to keep from being sued. The short answer is "nothing." I used to tell them
There is little that can be done to keep from being sued. People are
"sue happy" these days. Even though though disclaimers and liability
releases are generally worth the paper they're written on, I'd still put
together a release form that states that the buyer understands that the
aircraft was built by an amateur, that they have had it independently
inspected and that they accept all risks associated with it. I would
have the buyer, his spouse and their children sign the form! Add
$100,000 to the selling price, then give them a discount in that amount
for signing the waiver of liability.
While in and of itself it wouldn't do much to prevent a lawsuit, I
believe it would weigh significantly in a jury's collective mind when
determining liability.
I'll do a little research and see if I find any history on lawsuits over
experimental aircraft accidents.
Loren
A recovering lawyer :-) about to start on a -6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com> |
Two quick ones:
1) Are there any Oklahoma City-based builders on the list who may
consider a visit from a prospective builder? I'm currently working on a
project in OKC a few days a week.
2) A friend in OKC would make an excellent pilot and has an interest.
Any recommendations for a good FBO/training facility that I could
suggest for them?
Thanks.
Loren
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
I would suggest that the risk of being sued is proportional to your net
worth. Liablity lawyers want to go for millions - if you ain't got it they
ain't gonna wastee their time sueing you.
>
>WoodardRod wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > I am in the process of selling my RV-6A and am wondering if anyone has run
>> > into any liability
>> > concerns regarding homebuilt aircraft. I have heard of people who
would not
>> > sell a homebuilt
>> > because of the danger of lawsuits in case of an accident. Is this
something
>> > to worry about?
>> > Is it different in Canada than the US? Comments???
>> >
>> > Ted French
>> > RV-6A flying
>>
>> Hi Ted:
>>
>> Finally, a question I'm at least marginally capable of answering. :-)
>>
>> I get clients in my office at least once a week who want to know what
they can
>> do to keep from being sued. The short answer is "nothing." I used to tell
them
>Rod: This is a little late coming to the "liability party", but a
>conversation at Oshkosh last year with the head underwriter for Avemco
>brought out a couple of points that should be verified or refuted. I
>paraphrase and offer them for what they may be worth. The first point
>went something like this: Since the aircraft we build are not for the
>purpose of "entering the stream of commerce" we, unlike the Beech's,
>Cessna's and Pipers', as builders are not held to the strict liability
>standards that they are. We would be held to the standards of general
>liability. We would not be covered by the 18 year liability tail that
>the "stream of commerce" people are. In event of a lawsuit, we would
>not be held to the more onerous standards. This would not relieve us
>from liability for known, but concealed, defects. His second point was
>that in Avemco's experience, such lawsuits are not much of a problem. I
>realize that even if it is not much of a problem statistically, a
>lawsuit against ones self is still a problem. Comments please.
>
>He also indicated that Avemco offers liability tail insurance, the
>length of which is based on the length of time the aircraft has been
>insured with Avemco. We did not discuss costs.
>
>Gordon Comfort
>N3363GC
>
>
>
>
>
Richard E. Bibb Direct: 703-245-4505
Vice President, Federal Operations Main: 703-245-4544
Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 703-245-4500
1595 Spring Hill Road Pager: 800-719-1246
5th Floor
Vienna, VA 22182
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
I probably should know by now, but what is a tack rag?
Royce Craven
>
>Hey guys, I've been painting warbirds for years and the proper procedure is
>to paint directly over the primer no matter what system you're using -- PPG,
>DuPont, etc. If you want to ensure good chemical bond, paint final coat(s)
>within 1-2 days of shooting the primer, don't use accelerator with either
>primer or color coat, and use the same manufacturer for both. If you want to
>get slightly better mechanical or physical bonding, scuff the primer all
>over with scotchbrite pads then remove residue with proper tack rag.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
<< Loren
A recovering lawyer :-) >>
See. Who said that 12 step programs don't work?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
69-74,76-99
| From: | jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER) |
The firewall forward of my RV6A is from a 1957 Mooney M20
and consists of an O-320 and a Hartzell constant speed prop Model
HC-82XL-1D. The recent Hartzell AD caught this prop and I purchased a
new
Hartzell CS prop through Van's one-time purchase program (Model
HC-C2YL-1BF). After installing the new prop we discovered that the
prop cockpit
control now works backwards. With the old prop, the pitch was shallow
(high
rpm) when the cockpit control was full forward which
caused the governor to deliver max oil pressure to the prop hub.
However with the new prop was installed last weekend, the blades go to
max
pitch (low rpm) with the control forward and max oil pressure from the
governor. Pulling the control full back cuts off the oil from the
governor and the new prop goes to shallow or minimum pitch (high rpm);
pushing the control in and out will cycle the prop. So the control is
now
operating exactly reverse from the original system.
The prop governor is a Hartzell B-2 which apparently is not the gov
installed by Mooney and is a replacement gov added sometime during the
life of this engine (no log entry found). This governor was working OK
before the old prop was replaced.
I telephoned Hartzell yesterday and they confirmed that these two props
work opposite. The original prop uses high oil pressure to set minimum
pitch (high rpm) and the new prop uses high pressure to set max pitch
(low rpm). They had no suggestions on how to remedy the situation. I
telephoned EMI in Tulsa, OK which had overhauled the B-2 gov about 8
months ago to get their opinion. They advised there is no way to adjust
the
governor internally to reverse its operation. I suggested rotating the
outside control arm 180 degrees, but they said that won't work (I''m not
sure why and I don't think we were communicating very well. The rep just
flatly stated rotating the outside control would not work ). EMI said
get a
different governor and offered to rebuild my gov to make it work in the
new application. This was a somewhat confusing conversation, at least
confusing to me.
Alternatives:
Is there any way to reverse the oil pressure output by changing or
adjusting something internal in the governor? This method would allow
the mechanical linkage-control system to stay in place without
modification which is very desirable.
If an internal change is not possible or reasonable, then I suppose I
could
reverse the action of the control arm. In order to leave the control
arm at its present position on the governor, I could either install a
much longer control cable allowing the cable to lead to the arm from the
opposite direction (180 degrees) or fabricate some type of bell crank
to reverse the action of the present control cable. Both of these will
require quite a bit of effort.
The easier method would be to rotate the control arm to the other side of
its present position. With some modification this would allow
use of the cable support bracket now attached to the top of the governor
which holds the exterior of the cable and allow a fair lead to the
control arm. However this fix will lose the use of a mechanical limit
stop on
the control arm which stops the cockpit control from being pulled too far
(the control arm hits a mechanical stop at the governor). Turning the
control arm 180 degrees on the gov loses this stop mechanism because the
new position extends the arm away from the body of the governor (the
present position has the control arm over the body of the governor which
allows the stop to work). Without the stop I would have to be careful
when
pulling the cockpit control out. Hopefully not a serious concern since
seldom is a prop control pulled to the max (at least not with the old
prop).
Another possibility is to replace the governor with a different type or
model which is the more expensive alternative and may require
modification
of the control bracket and system if the new governor is not the same
size and configuration.
Finally I suppose I could live with the reverse cockpit control. Start
with the control full aft and reduce rpm by pushing the control forward.
I would appreciate your comments and suggestions. Obviously a solution
which retains the present control cable system and bracket is the best
and simplest but may require a new or reworked governor and the attendant
expense. Changing the direction of the cable requires quite a bit of
work in a tight location. Reversing the control arm and modifying the
cable support and fair lead bracket appears to be feasible but also
requires modification of the present system.
Thank you for your consideration. Since I have been AOG (airplane on
ground) for about 4 months with this problem (one month to get old prop
checked out and judged out of specs under the new AD; two months waiting
for Hartzell to ship new prop; working only on weekends when the weather
allows), I am anxious to overcome this last(?) unexpected glitch and
return to flying status.
J. E. Rehler RV6A flying Corpus Christi, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Thread engagement specs |
Before you decide to try the longer rudder rod end bearing, keep in mind that
it is also 1/16" wider. So you might want to first check to see how it will
fit between the yoke in which you might install it.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
If I begin to have bad dreams about this, I'll get the over-length rod ends as
used on the rudder, as someone pointed out.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections |
to
This one seems to be on the edge between a hoax and a legitimate
news item. Check out
http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html
which is the FCC Access Charge Reform Homepage. It appears
that some reform to FCC regulations is underconsideration, but
that is probably continuously the case. Most of the documents
seem to deal with methods of ensuring affordable access to the
internet for low-income people, and people in rural areas.
Tedd McHenry
tedd(at)idacom.hp.com
Surrey, BC
[six tail]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Directly Over Vari-prime? |
Tack rag is sticky cloth that is used to wipe over the plane or part before
painting. It serves to pick-up any left over dust or particles. Available at
your Body Shop Supplyhouse.
Von Alexander
N107RV (RV -4)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Pace <wbpace(at)adnc.com> |
| Subject: | New Sensenich prop for O-360 |
According to the Sensenich web page, the new O-360 prop is ready for sale!
However they do not give any pricing information. There's no info on Van's
page either. Does anyone know how much it will cost? Will Van's have a
better OEM price than Sensenich will want for direct sales?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
In reference to this particular message, you can get a clue by the looking at
the part number(s). The identifcation of part numbers is covered in the basic
building instructions, so you might want to review this. But, since you
can't always tell by this, posters should identify what aircraft model they
are referring to, unless it is generic to all.
> Im trying to install the F605 bulkhead and am trying to locate the F657
Hi to all posting Info for builders.
It would be greatly appreciated if the RV type [4-6-6A-8 etc.] could be
noted in the subject line or at the beginning of the post,this would be of
great help to determine if the message is relevant to the craft we are
building.For instance I am building an RV6A but don't have a clue if this
info would be of help to me when I get to the fuselage stage.
Great stuff, but a little more info would really help.
Thanks to all
Derek Reed Grants Pass OR[ wings-RV6A]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Wing skin Plate nuts (?) |
Will, you need to change your notes on this. The fuselage bottom skin that
overhangs is screwed to the inboard wing ribs utilizing K1100 platenuts and
#8 screws. These are nominally spaced at 2 1/2". If you've already drilled
for rivets, check the layout to the overhanging bottom skin to determine where
the screws will go and then rivet each hole between. Then install platenuts
in the empty holes. I found it easier to do this before installing the
wings. You can pilot drill the fuselage skin through the platenuts by using a
12" drill going from the top down between the wing and fuselage being careful
not to hit the sides with the drill chuck. Then you can pull the wing out to
finish drilling and dimpling the fuselage skin.
Jerry, If I understand your question, you are wondering the reason for
the 2 1/2" spacing of rivets in the lower wing skin at rib 1, correct?
My wing construction notes are on the net at http://www.flash.net/~gila
parked behind the red RV-6A. I just reviewed them to refresh my memory.
The notes say that the lower skin at rib 1 will be later riveted in
assembly with the fuselage lower skin. Those few rivets installed
now are merely tack rivets to hold the skin until it is securely riveted
later. I am now completing the fuselage of my RV-6A and sure enough
there is fuselage skin just waiting for the wing to arrive. I hope this
answers your question.
Will Cretsinger
-6A at Grand Prairie (TX) Airport
Now working on brakes and wheels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Don
Spencer A/C and National Aviation Supply on Boeing field both have it. How
much do you need? I have 10 airplanes worth.
Mike Robbins
Issaquah
RV-8 just starting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: used lycomings |
>
> there's no way I can financially
>justify taking a second mortgage on my house for one.
>Realistically, I'll probably end up with a used Lycoming.
>
I understand that it's still possible to
>find the occasional mid/high time engine starting round $6k. If you were to
>buy one of these engines, would you trust it enough to just bolt it up
>Russell;
Have faith, I was lucky and got a used O-320 160 hp that had 392 hrs since
new ( 1989 ) out of a R - 22 helicopter. The engine was not damaged as it
turns a belt drive, this is Canadian $ and the rate today would be the
equiv. of $11,000.00 in your money.
There are accessories yes, but with fuel, exaust, alt & starters ther are
many options. And yes I had the engine checked by the best " certified "
shop I know off. $11000.00 Can. new paint, fuel pump&access, cam & cyl
checked. OK!!!
I would suggest as you are building, ( what stage, I don't know ) check out
the market. a few phone calls can save big $$$$.
Best of 98 & luck in your endevor.
P.S. If you can obtain a good crankshaft for a 360, engine builders will
build to your specs cheaper than you think, .
Ed Hobenshield RV-6 Flying Canada.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Bob Reiff wrote:
> We have the engine and cylinder heaters for sale.
I would like toi go on record as being one who has you heaters
and have them installed. I must say that they do an excellent job. With
temperatures we get in the Northeast; its nice to come out to warm easy
starting engine. Keep up the good work Bob.
Don
RV6QB 96%done
Had the heaters on a PA-12
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wallace R. Penney" <wallyp(at)interlog.com> |
| Subject: | Ft Myers RV Builders |
Hi Folks:
A fellow RVer who is building an RV-6 is planning to spend a few weeks in Ft Myers.
He was wondering if there are any RV-6 builders in the area whose projects
he could visit. He is considering an automotive conversion for his project.
Wally Flying RV-3 C-GPNY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections |
to
ISPs]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections to
> ISPs
> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:15:57 -0500
> From: Larry Kenney <lkenney(at)slip.net> (by way of John Cunliffe <cunliffe(at)frontiernet.net>)
> To: vhf(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Maybe we ought to re-arm the Alamo.
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
Actually the stiffeners should overlap each other so that they cannot touch
the skin when the trailing edge is compressed. Otherwise they will dent the
skin. Check the plans and instructions.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Jon,
_____________________________
____LI___LI___LI___LI___________
Sorry,
Im not up to speed on drawing with the computer yet so I hope this makes
sense. Your stiffeners should not contact one another. If you hold your rudder
or elevator together at the leading edges and look inside this is what you
shoud see (sort of). the stiffeners form a box shape. If your stiffeners are
contacting the skin, simply trim the angles of your stiffeners more.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Prime now or later? Tip |
If you prime the exterior anyplace, you will probably end up having to sand it
down and reprime before applying the finish paint. Not a good idea IMO unless
you are going to expose it to a highly corrosive environment for a while
before you get it painted.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
I don't mean to start another "primer" thread, but while I am waiting on my
RV-8 wing kit, I have thought about going ahead and vari-priming my tailkit.
Is this advisable, or will it get all scratched up during installation later?
YOUR tips are appreciated!
Von Alexander
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
The information required on the identification plate does not include gross
weight. The only place that it would normally appear would be as part of the
weight and balance report that is required to be presented during the
certification process. A copy of this report is put on file by the FAA along
with the other certification documents. I believe a copy was also attached as
a part of the Operating Limitations on my first -6A, but I don't see a
requirement for that in the AC. However, it is not eched in stone! For
example, if you make a major modification (such as a different prop or engine
type), you might have to submit a new weight and balance report to reflect the
new data along with the new flight test period requirement. Also after
painting or adding fixed equipment, you should also do a new weight and
balance report and file it. I don't think you would have a problem if you
increased the gross weight along with that, but it would probably depend on
the MIDO or other FAA staff member who processes it. If I wanted to try it, I
sure wouldn't hesitate to and would ask for a regulation cite if refused.
Does anybody know of one?
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Your RV gross weight is whatever YOU publish it to be. >>
Exactly! And once you publish it on your data plate and at the time of
certification, it stands.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | First Flight Anticipation |
This may seem like astupid question, but here goes. Do any of you builders
nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
flight? Maybe saying "well, I need to build this...", or "I need to save up
money for that..." and keep adding to the to-do list before you fly it?
The reason for this astronomically stupid question is that I was day
dreaming on my unending drive home from work tonight about my first flight
someday. I don't mean the glory and glamor and the highlights, but the
details. Actually rolling this craft, which was built by none other than
myself, out onto the runway after trembling hands had fumbled through a
run-up and a shaky voice had called out my departure. Then smoothly
advancing the throttle to full in an as-yet untested aircraft. Will it fly
straight? Will I have to stand on a rudder pedal to keep it straight? When
it lifts off will the wings stay level? On and on..... I found myself
getting butterflies just like my first solo, and the only airplane parts I
have assembled are the HS, VS and a partially completed rudder!!
Just thought I'd ask. It seems like I talk to a lot of guys who are so
close, but are in no real rush and don't seem as excited as I would think.
Any comments?
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Rudder final assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
I think for flight testing a G-meter needs to be installed, even if
temporarily (how else will you know the limits of your flight testing?).
Now: how do you know if a G-meter is accurate? If I am out pulling 6 Gs, I
would kinda like to know if I AM pulling 6 Gs. Mine is new from Vans and I
am not sure it reads accurately. Is there a way to test them besides
sending them to the factory?
Just wondering..............
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Rob Hatwell- phone home!! |
Listers:
Please pardon my intrusion!
Rob: my return email keeps bouncing. Please re-submit your request.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: prop governor |
I don't think that reversing the control arm or using the control "backwards"
will work. I may be wrong, but the governor you have is designed to port high
pressure oil to decrease the pitch on the blades, and reduce the pressure in
order to let the blades drive to a higher pitch. Your prop, however works
opposite of this. Imagine your in flight, and you pitch your aircraft nose
down. The engine will unload, and start to speed up. Your governor is designed
to reduce oil pressure to the prop, in order to load the engine and maintain a
constant rpm. But with your new prop, a reduction in oil pressure decreases
blade pitch, increasing the rpm! I believe that the prop might run away with
itself. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6a N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Sensenich prop for O-360 |
<< Will Van's have a
better OEM price than Sensenich will want for direct sales? >>
I for one surely hope so. It has always been my experience that folks who
do not readily post their prices usually make me nervous.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply |
Carey,
My strobe is at top of VS and I mounted power pack against rear bottom of rear
baggage compartment bulkhead. There was room to place the power supply on its
side, place some nutplates on some 1/8 angle alum and pop rivet the angle to the
bulkhead. Unless you have a forward C.G., big engine, CS prop, etc, I would
hesitate to put the power unit very far back in the tail.
Ed
RV-6A N494BW Awaiting Inspection
Rvmils wrote:
>
> I can't decide where to put my power supply for my strobe. I mounted the
> strobe on the tip of the VS. I would like it as for back near the VS spar
> w/out drilling into skin or do most of you just mount it to the fuse skin and
> if so where.
>
> mounting the rudder
> Carey Mills
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance Answers |
Hello all,
There have been recurring questions concerning a discount offered by Avemco
for participation in the EAA Tech Counselor program.
Also, one of the -listers recently posted a message suggesting that Avemco
will sell us "tail" insurance to cover potential liability when somebody sells
an Experimental aircraft.
I had a little extra time at work today, so I made a few phone calls and have
answers to the above questions:
Tech Counselor Discount Program:
Avemco offers a 10% discount to EAA members who participate in the Tech
Counselor program. Avemco requires at least 3 documented visits by a tech
counselor. As you are probably aware, the tech counselor DOES NOT sign
anything that he will leave with you to memorialize his visit. Rather, the
visiting tech counselor fills out a card describing the visit to your project
and sends it to EAA headquarters. EAA HQ keeps a record of these cards and
will provide the information to Avemco when you apply for insurance.
"TAIL" Insurance for Liability upon sale:
"Tail" is the common name for insurance which basically covers your TAILend
after you've stopped doing whatever you originally bought insurance for. For
example, lawyers often buy tail insurance when they're ready to retire which
will cover them if some poor client finds a screwup 10 years down the road.
Anyway... As part of Avemco's Direct 2000 policy, once you have been insured
for 1 year with Avemco, you will automatically have a year's worth of "tail"
coverage when you sell the plane. After 2 years with Avemco, you'll have 2
years of tail and after 3 years, you'll have 3 years of tail. Three years is
the maximum tail coverage they provide. There is no additional premium for
this coverage, the cost is included in the price of your Direct 2000 policy.
Avemco DOES NOT sell tail insurance separately. Also, it is NOT included in
the cheaper "National" policy.
The sources for the information in this post are:
EAA Headquarters (920)426-4821, Carrie; and
Avemco, (800)638-8440, Cindy Gee, Sales/Underwriter
Incidentally, over the past 6 years or so that I've owned an airplane, I've
had it insured with several carriers. Some have been cheaper than Avemco, but
I've always been happiest with Avemco and Cindy Gee, in particular, has always
been very friendly and helpful. Just my $0.02.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
P.S. Carrie at the EAA also directed me to a web site I had never visited
before: http://www.safetydata.com This is sponsored by the EAA in conjunction
with the FAA. Lots of interesting stuff there including relevant Advisory
Circulars, EAA information, etc. Check it out.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
Hi Jon,
I have an RV-6A to the point I am scheduling the Air worthiness Inspection
-
Probably late Jan early Feb. It also has an Mazda 13B engine I adapted as the
power plant, so I can relate to your "NOT STUPID" question. I have developed my
test plan, put together a Pilots Operating Handbook, have 16 hrs running the
engine fine tuning the EFI system, etc., etc. So when asked am I eager to get
it
in the air, the answer is "Yes, but not before it and I am ready". I keep
mentally replaying possible subsystem failure scenarios and my response to them,
keep reviewing my combination of redundant and fail safe approaches and other
similar things. I believe only the blindly conceded or oblivious do not go
through this sort of thing - or I guess those of use who have never made a
mistake.
I have had the light bulb come one more than once laying in bed - with an "oh
s...t! I had better check ......."
I did my first taxi test this past week end, slow and short length and discovered
that with the free swelveling nose gear a tight turn ending in a stop cocks the
nose gear such that it took a considerable burst of power and hard opposite brake
pressure to get the nose gear straightened out and rolling again. Hadn't thought
about it - but found it out during taxi test... which makes me wonder, OK what
else will unexpectedly reveal itself?
Nothing is guaranteed, but I believe staying a "little" paranoid and in tune
with "Murphy's Law" does not hurt. Just don't become paralyzed by it. I believe
laying out a thorough test plan from taxi test, first flight, and test flights
can
help you build confidence through each stage and into the next. There are several
good books on test flying homebuilts as well as several FAA pamphlets which I
would consider mandatory reading.
Keep building, as getting to the point where you actually are faced with
"pushing" the throttle forward for the first time is both a great challenge and
reward.
Ed
RV-6A N494BW SOON!
Jon Elford wrote:
>
> This may seem like astupid question, but here goes. Do any of you builders
> nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
> flight? ou fly it?
>
> The reason for this astronomically stupid question is that I was day
> dreaming on my unending drive home from work tonight about my first flight
> someday. Just thought I'd ask.
> Any comments?
> Jon Elford
> RV6 #25201
> Rudder final assembly
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
My guess is if your meter says that you are in fact 6 times your weight,
and it is not very painful and you are not about to black out, then you
meter is wrong!
>
>I think for flight testing a G-meter needs to be installed, even if
>temporarily (how else will you know the limits of your flight testing?).
>Now: how do you know if a G-meter is accurate? If I am out pulling 6 Gs, I
>would kinda like to know if I AM pulling 6 Gs. Mine is new from Vans and I
>am not sure it reads accurately. Is there a way to test them besides
>sending them to the factory?
>
>Just wondering..............
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joseph.wiza(at)mcione.com> |
(Elect Flaps) (F661EF)Does anyone know what print and where I would find
the positioning of the 661EF bushings. The WD613 detemine the width
positions but at what distance from the bottom of the F605. F Justin
suggests drilling the holes in the bushings and bulkhead at the time the
bulkhead is installed???????
Joe/fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
Yea John, I have one comment, Find a job closer to home. :-) Al
>This may seem like astupid question, but here goes. Do any of you builders
>nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
>flight? Maybe saying "well, I need to build this...", or "I need to save up
>money for that..." and keep adding to the to-do list before you fly it?
>
>The reason for this astronomically stupid question is that I was day
>dreaming on my unending drive home from work tonight about my first flight
>someday.
>Any comments?
>Jon Elford
N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Is the list working? |
Is the list working? I have not received any mail from the list in a week.
I am receiving mail from the shortlist.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
charset="US-ASCII"
>
>This may seem like astupid question, but here goes. Do any of you builders
>nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
>flight? Maybe saying "well, I need to build this...", or "I need to save
up
>money for that..." and keep adding to the to-do list before you fly it?
>Any comments?
Jon,
I don't know you from a load of hay. For all I know you are Sean Tucker's
flight instructor. However, even if you are, you might want to consider
some things. I know an "apprehensive builder" who insisted on doing his own
first flight. I pleaded with him to get some time in an RV with someone
else and even offered to set it up. (this was before I bought mine) He too
put it off a loooong time but finally one Sunday morning with only one
person watching he did it. Nothing went wrong and he did not wreck it.
After that I flew with him some, he became more comfortable, and now he
does real well.
I am not a builder so I can not relate to the attachment you folks have with
your airplanes. I bought a radical homebuilt once and I "test" flew it. So
I can talk to that issue and I know
about the apprehension. However an airplane is nothing more than a pile of
tin and I am alive because I made a conscience decision to crash that
same airplane (much later). If you are not fully prepared to park your
shiny new
RV on the first trip, DON'T fly it! Sounds serious, it is, it's your life.
People get killed test flying homebuilts and most of them are little
problems that cause the pilot to quit flying. Soon after, the plane does.
Turning back on an engine failure after takeoff is another. If I ask you
what you will do when the engine quits after takeoff, and you take a breath
before you answer land straight ahead, You need training. A few hours of
dual would really help in these areas.
My point is some apprehension is normal, but you are not in a position to
decide whether "you" are ready to fly this airplane. You have too much
emotional investment in the airplane. EAA has the flight advisor program.
If you have one in your area get in touch with them and have a sit-down
discussion with that person. If you don't call someone you who is not from
your hometown and do it on the phone. If you can't find anyone else call me.
I will be glad to discuss it with you. I am not telling you not to make the
first flight in your airplane, I am just saying, make sure that you are
ready. If you have got $50K or $60K tied up in your bird, it might be wise
to spend some $ on some flight instruction.
You may be Sean Tuckers Flight instructor and you may be absolutely
qualified to fly the first trip. If you are, great, then all you need is to
have that
confidence. Having that discussion with someone you respect will give you
that confidence.
Good luck!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal ATP CFI MEI B25 PBY
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
PS The old boy in the first paragraph said the reason why he was going to
fly it first without the training was when he married his wife 40 yrs ago,
"she was shiny and he had no idea what the hell he was doing, but if you
think I was going to find someone with experience to take her around the
patch the first time...." well you get the idea. ;-) Hard to argue with,
but it still does not apply.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
<< Do any of you builders
nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
flight? Maybe saying "well, I need to build this...", or "I need to save up
money for that..." and keep adding to the to-do list before you fly it? >>
Yes. My solution is to get someone else to do the initial test flight.
Someone like Mike Seger (Vans RV Instructor) who has many hours in the RV and
has done many first test flights. After he has done a full inspection of the
aircraft and I fix all the the gripes to his satisifaction, then I have no
problems with him going for it.
Part of your fear is because; you are the builder and are too attached to the
project. You ought to think about a third unemotionally involved party, that
can make honest objective decisions.
When I built R/C models, I had your exact same feeling with every new
aircraft I flew. And I consider myself to be a very good R/C pilot. I am a
much better R/C pilot than a Private Pilot, therefore, I need an experienced
test pilot.
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bubbajoe <bubbajoe(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Lettering Material |
Since I service copiers, I don't feel that this process is very duriable.Toner
is
plastic melted onto paper or some other material and with most copiers,Kodak's
especially,they use a silicon oil to keep the toner from offseting onto the fuser
rollers.This oil normally keeps the toner from adhering to the material
reliabily.To check this run a copy and fold it in half,at the crease of the fold
the toner will usually flake off.Only my $.02 worth!!
Rich Miller
chester razer wrote:
>
> The self adhesive film also works wonderfully when used in a plain paper
> copier.
> --
> Chet Razer
> razer(at)midwest.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
> From: les williams <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com>
> The Apollo SL60 GPS/Com has outputs for the Autopilot/CDI/HSI and it is
not
> approach certified.
You're right, I'm looking at the spec sheet right now. Let us know how it
work out slaving to the Navaid...Sounds like a nice setup!
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
<< The information required on the identification plate does not include gross
weight. The only place that it would normally appear would be as part of the
weight and balance report that is required to be presented during the
certification process. >>
Au Contrere, Pierre. My FAA Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft data plate
(Wag Aero P/N H-717-000) has blocks for both Empty Weight and Gross Weight.
However, if you are referring to the DEA Airframe Manufacture Data plate (Wag
Aero P/N H-742-000), you are correct in that it doesn't require it.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cafgef <Cafgef(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
I am getting tired of reading this " Liability concerns". What I want to know
is how many people have been sued after they have sold their homebuilt. Is it
really a problem? Sharks keep people out of the water because of the risk of
shark attacks. Funny thing is that golfers get hit by lightning more often
than swimmers get sharkbit. I want to know about realistic risks.
Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
Put on a three piece canopy skirt on my 6-A tip-up. Used straight strips,2.25"
wide.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTED AIR <BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply |
"What ever you do be sure to ground the strobe light at the source (power
supply) and at the light itself, we didn't at the light and it causes the
transponder encoder to fail in a altitude mode resulting in a lot of money and
of course your word on altitude not taken
Belted Air RV-6A Chevy power, engine was not the problem.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
I had the opposite problem but then I am an opposite sort of fellow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
RBusick505 wrote:
>
>
>
> << Do any of you builders
> nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
> flight? Maybe saying "well, I need to build this...", or "I need to save up
> money for that..." and keep adding to the to-do list before you fly it? >>
I couldn't wait to fly mine. I had gone over it 1000 times in my head,
and after some 8 hours in a taildragger, I felt qualified. My wife
encouraged me, knowing that I would have hated the descision the rest of
my life. If you have been flying during the building and feel qualified,
do it.
John Kitz
N721JK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ShowCtrGuy <ShowCtrGuy(at)aol.com> |
<< Is there a way to test them besides
sending them to the factory?
>>
gee, that would give me a chance to bum a ride in someone's pitts.. or
my Boss's Sp-95.. that is the way I'd test them.. maybe if you had access to a
centrifuge???????
Jeremy King
AirshowUnlimited
http://members.aol.com/Brad3152/Airshow.html
Rv4 #3981 tail feathers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau) |
| Subject: | Re: prop governor |
I'm not sure that the original poster of this prop control
movement question is trying to change what the governor does
with the oil supplied to the prop. It sounded to me like he
is just trying to get the same movement for both the throttle
and prop controls, e.g. "in to go", "out to no"....
Perhaps some may be trying to read too much into the question.
Paul M. Bilodeau
pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com
732-957-6611
RV-6A Empennage
Building Horizontal Stabilizer.....still
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | RV-Bookstore special |
As of today, 16 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR is sold out. (2500 copies were
sold)
But; for those who would still like to have an RV-Ator back issue
compilation, here are two choices.
1] We have 10 copies left of the original 14 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR
(1980-1993). We will sell them out for $12 each (plus $3 for postage).
2] We have started working on the new 18 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR, which
will be ready sometime in March. Anybody who pre-orders the 18 YEAR book
for March shipment can have it at the 16 YEAR price of $27.95 (plus $3
postage)
MAZDA CONVERSION BOOK
We have added to our inventory Tracy Cook's book AVIATORS GUIDE TO MAZDA
ROTARY CONVERSIONS. The price is $29.95 (plus $3 postage)
For more information on RV-Ation Bookstore, write back and we will send
you a catalog or see our web site at www.rvbookstore.com
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
RV-6A N-5060 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
I am not referring to what blank spaces are on a manufacured data plate, but
rather the information required to be on the identification plate by FAR
Section 45.13, which does not include gross weight. Guess I should have
included the reference in my posting. Thanks.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
<< The information required on the identification plate does not include gross
weight. The only place that it would normally appear would be as part of the
weight and balance report that is required to be presented during the
certification process. >>
Au Contrere, Pierre. My FAA Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft data plate
(Wag Aero P/N H-717-000) has blocks for both Empty Weight and Gross Weight.
However, if you are referring to the DEA Airframe Manufacture Data plate (Wag
Aero P/N H-742-000), you are correct in that it doesn't require it.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Holes for Wires in Stick |
I have PTT only and did not make any holes. I ran my wires out the
bottom between the 2 rod end bearings. I have plenty of room. I did NOT
use aircraft (Tefzel) wire. I went to the electronics shop and purchased
wire used for multimeter leads. It is VERY flexible. I also used an AMP
(Molex style) connector as a disconnect below the stick. I used Tefzel
the rest of the way to the radio. One addition that I did was to add PTT
switches on the arm rest of each side. That way communication tasks can
be delegated to a crew member without touching the stick.
Will be checking my RMI and KX-125 this weekend to see if my CAT goes
bizerk on transmit. After 50+ flying hours I have not seen the problem
described by others. Maybe I have not looked. I did use shielded
twisted wires for all probes. Only one end of the shield is grounded at
the panel. I do believe in and practice Nuckolls electrical system
designs.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
writes:
>
>
>>Subject: Holes for Wires in Stick
>
> Where is the best place to bring the wires out of the stick for
the PTT switch and trim switch?
> I thought a good place might be opposite the bushing near the
bottom of the stick....(?)
> And what size hole is recommended?
>
>Have a Great Day!
> denny-->> RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
Seeing all the comments of late on purchasing used Lycomings, and coming
DANGEROUSLY (to my bank account) close to purchasing a used Lycoming, I
have been giving some serious consideration to my long-time idea of
building up my own O-360. That is, buying a used crank, case, carb,
sump, etc. and four new cylinders. Has anyone done this, and can it be
more economical than buying something that you aren't 100% sure about
its history?
I already have purchased two Hartzell 76" blades and hub (no internals)
for $250. The blades and hub are in excellent shape with 750 hrs., but
the blades were rejected by Hartzell for slightly undersize shanks. I
have been told by several prop shops that the blades are usable and
aren't dangerous, but they weren't sure about the hub without looking at
it. I know the fanatic owner of the plane it came off of, and he had
the money to burn for a three-blade McCauley. I recently purchased a
junk hub with all the internals for $100; so, for less than $1000
(including labor to put is all together by a prop shop) I will have a
propeller that in my mind is certainly more safe than a wood prop. And
it will cost me about the same as a good wood prop and extension.
You can get good deals if you do look under the rocks. I'm just
wondering if I can do the same with an engine. I have talked to people
selling non-certified cranks that were rejected for what I was told were
minor reasons. I am going to do some more investigation; I think there
are some bargains to be found, if they can be safely usable.
After all, I'm building the plane, why not the engine?
Thanks,
Bob Japundza
Integrated Information Services, LLC
bjapundza@iis-intellect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight Anticipation |
Jon, I have built three ultralights and one RV-6A and test flown them all.
The first time I flew my first ultralight, I was pretty apprehensive. Because
it was a little different than my previous flying experience and there were no
two place ultralights in existence at that time, I approached it very
cautiously. But, like all the rest, I felt confident that I had built it to
meet or exceed the construction standards as I knew them and had utmost
confidence that it would fly as well as I could fly it.
The RV aircraft have no surprises in flight characteristics. So if you build
it as close as you can to acceptable standards as well as your personal ones
and get yourself current in piloting skills, there is really no reason to
procastinate about doing your first flight. And if you're not a little
nervous about it, you're probably missing something, somewhere!
Personally, I'm getting flying fever to go test my new -6A just writing about
this. It's a real high, like nothing else I can describe. Maybe late spring!
This may seem like astupid question, but here goes. Do any of you builders
nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
flight? Maybe saying "well, I need to build this...", or "I need to save up
money for that..." and keep adding to the to-do list before you fly it?
The reason for this astronomically stupid question is that I was day
dreaming on my unending drive home from work tonight about my first flight
someday. I don't mean the glory and glamor and the highlights, but the
details. Actually rolling this craft, which was built by none other than
myself, out onto the runway after trembling hands had fumbled through a
run-up and a shaky voice had called out my departure. Then smoothly
advancing the throttle to full in an as-yet untested aircraft. Will it fly
straight? Will I have to stand on a rudder pedal to keep it straight? When
it lifts off will the wings stay level? On and on..... I found myself
getting butterflies just like my first solo, and the only airplane parts I
have assembled are the HS, VS and a partially completed rudder!!
Just thought I'd ask. It seems like I talk to a lot of guys who are so
close, but are in no real rush and don't seem as excited as I would think.
Any comments?
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Rudder final assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
My data placard included empty weight, gross weight, name, address,
engine, hp. Also my 6A has a tail heavy configuration such that with
420 pounds of pilot and passenger along with 65 pounds of baggage and
with available fuel down to 5 gallons on board, I am at my aft CG
limit. I may go with Landolls balancer ring to put a few extra pounds
forward.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability (don't be) concerned |
<< I am getting tired of reading this " Liability concerns". What I want to
know
is how many people have been sued after they have sold their homebuilt. Is
it
really a problem? >>
I'm in the aviation insurance business (more specifically aviation products
liability) so I do have some knowledge on this subject. It is POSSIBLE that
you could be sued after selling you AMATUR-BUILT, EXPERIMENTAL aircraft,
however it is very unlikely because:
1) the buyer is fully aware that the aircraft he purchased is amatur-built and
certified in the experimenral category. Of course, if you sold it under false
pretensions you would be liable. Injured third parties might sue you but...
2) Unlike large manufacturers, most individuals do not have enough assets to
make a case attractive for a plaintiff attorney.
3) The trial would be very technical and time consuming, two things an
attorney wants to avoid due to the potential low reward (ie attorney fee).
4) Someone on the list mentioned, correctly, that since the aircraft was not
built with the intention of entering the stream of commerce that an individual
would be held to a different standard then that of a manufacturer. The
aircraft was built, as per FAR's, for your recreation and education. You
simply didn't know what you were doing.
Something to think about...Kit manufacturers have been sued in the past but NO
kit manufacturer has ever been successfully sued.
Bottom line, build your aircraft and enjoy it. When your're done with it,
sell it or cut it up...what ever gives you the most piece of mind.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Elec fllap Rv6A |
> (Elect Flaps) (F661EF)Does anyone know what print and where I would find
> the positioning of the 661EF bushings.
I should put this in the FAQ -- seems a lot of people besides
me have wondered about this (check the archives).
The only drawing is the one that comes with the electric flap
kit. Also look at the pictures that come with it -- they can be
helpful. But the drawing is misleading in one way -- it shows
the holes in the end bushings being offset vertically from center,
which they are not, and doesn't show the vertical orientation
of the center bushing (it does have a vertically offset hole).
Anyhow, the the vertical positioning of the end bushings just depends on
where they end up after you position the center bushing. But the
fore-aft positioning of the CENTER bushing depends on where the end
bushings are. So all you really have to do is stick the bushings on
the control arm and put it in there, and there will be really
only one way it will work, so drill it there.
The only ambiguity, as I said before, is whether the center bushing goes
"hole low" or "hole high". You can do it either way -- I think "hole
low" is the way it's supposed to be, but bear in mind that this will
have two side effects: 1) you can't get carpet underneath the bar (if
you plan on doing that), and 2) bolt heads on the bottom holes in the
side bushings will interfere with the seat floor in front of the
bulkhead. This is easily remedied by making small cutouts in the floor
to clear the bolt heads. The disadvantage to going "hole high" is that
the forward actuator arm will end up slightly higher and will probably
drag on the forward flap channel (the one the motor is mounted to) as it
rotates up or down, unless you relocate the flap channel bottom slightly
forward of where it's called out on the plans. Also easily remedied,
but keep it in mind.
Email privately if you need clarification.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
till everything is where it wants to be.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)hfsmobility.com |
| Subject: | Peeling Wing skins |
A quick tip I came up with last night to peel that darned protective plastic
off of your wing skins, at least the flat skins. Peel about 3 inches in one
uniform piece, peeling lengthwise, then wrap about a 4 foot broomstick
around it. Lay the skin down on a carpeted floor and just roll the stick
about 1inch at a time, kind of like opening a sardine can with a key. It
comes off in one nice neat piece. I tried heating and chemicals. This worked
much faster.
Eric Henson
Mason-Dixon Engineering
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability concerns |
Hi Gene,
I agree 100%!!! This is a very practical outlook. In fact, I'm scheduled to go
to the Big City (Denver) on January 20th at 10:00 a.m. to research this very
topic. Westlaw allows attorneys to "play around" with their online databases
after we've attended one of their hour-long seminars. I signed up for a
seminar I'm mildly interested in so that I can search their databases
afterwards for instances where somebody's sued after the sale of an
experimental. I'll give a full report shortly after January 20th.
Best regards to all,
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033
Loveland, Colorado
> I am getting tired of reading this " Liability concerns". What I want to
know
> is how many people have been sued after they have sold their homebuilt. Is
> it
> really a problem? Sharks keep people out of the water because of the risk
> of
> shark attacks. Funny thing is that golfers get hit by lightning more often
> than swimmers get sharkbit. I want to know about realistic risks.
>
> Gene Francis cafgef(at)aol.com
> Put on a three piece canopy skirt on my 6-A tip-up. Used straight strips,2.
> 25"
> wide.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: strobe power supply |
>
>I can't decide where to put my power supply for my strobe. I mounted the
>strobe on the tip of the VS. I would like it as for back near the VS spar
>w/out drilling into skin or do most of you just mount it to the fuse skin and
>if so where.
>
>mounting the rudder
>Carey Mills
>
Why do you want to mount it that far back? I mounted my power supply under
the vert stab originally but then fouind that I wanted the CG further
forward. Since the heaviest item that far back that COULD be moved was the
power supply I moved it to just back of the pilots seat. I used shielded 3
or 4 wire cable and have had no problems with the installation.
Now if you're contemplating a cast iron block and head Chevy 4.3L engine you
might want to have that weight out back. :>)
BTW, if you find it difficult to find shielded wire I'll be glad to sell you
some. I had to buy 100' at $.89/foot!!! I know it's cheaper at Boeing
surplus but they were out of stock and I wanted it now.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gross Weight |
>
>
><< The information required on the identification plate does not include
gross
> weight. The only place that it would normally appear would be as part of
the
> weight and balance report that is required to be presented during the
> certification process. >>
>
>Au Contrere, Pierre. My FAA Experimental Amateur Built Aircraft data plate
>(Wag Aero P/N H-717-000) has blocks for both Empty Weight and Gross Weight.
It may be... but this plate is no longer required. Also, check to
see that it is NOT aluminum if you use one of these plates on the exterior
surface (where the FARs require it - the so-called DEA plate ...:^) since
it MUST be fireproof (like the newer, more concise stainless ones).
.... Gil (it's in the FARs) Alexander
It's also in my "How to register a homebuilt" short write-up available as a
Word file by private e-mail to -- E-mail replies to the
whole list will NOT be answered ..:^)
>However, if you are referring to the DEA Airframe Manufacture Data plate (Wag
>Aero P/N H-742-000), you are correct in that it doesn't require it.
>
>-GV
>
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Insurance Answers |
>
>Hello all,
>
>There have been recurring questions concerning a discount offered by Avemco
>for participation in the EAA Tech Counselor program.
*** snip ***
>
>Tech Counselor Discount Program:
>
>Avemco offers a 10% discount to EAA members who participate in the Tech
>Counselor program. Avemco requires at least 3 documented visits by a tech
>counselor. As you are probably aware, the tech counselor DOES NOT sign
>anything that he will leave with you to memorialize his visit. Rather, the
>visiting tech counselor fills out a card describing the visit to your project
>and sends it to EAA headquarters. EAA HQ keeps a record of these cards and
>will provide the information to Avemco when you apply for insurance.
I believe that Avemco also adds an extra 10% discount if you belong to
an EAA Chapter .. which is also the best way to cantact your nearest
Technical Counselor ...:^)
Gil (join your local EAA Chapter) Alexander
PS ... my $0.02. Avemco treated me fairly and quickly when I had a claim
for a sailplane that was destroyed in a 100 mph windstorm a few years ago...
>
*** snip ***
>Avemco, (800)638-8440, Cindy Gee, Sales/Underwriter
*** snip ***
>
>Rod Woodard
>RV-8, #80033
>Loveland, Colorado
>
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Wilcox <rwilcox(at)qnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
>>
>>This may seem like astupid question, but here goes. Do any of you builders
>>nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of excuses to delay the first
>>flight? Maybe saying "well, I need to build this...", or "I need to save
>up
>>money for that..." and keep adding to the to-do list before you fly it?
>>Any comments?
Jon,
One of the greatest challenges facing every builder is to eventually take
off your "builders" hat and put on your "pilots" hat. But you MUST do it.
As your making that glorious first flight, what you don't want going
through your mind is thinking of all those rivets that weren't exactly
perfect, did I torque those nuts sufficiently, did I install the engine
backwards, etc. You should have done that before making the decision to do
the first flight. Like someone else responded, you MUST be rehearsing your
emergency procedures and getting them down pat!! I know for a fact my
brain isn't big enough to do both! :-)
Ron Wilcox
4th in my office building a -6
N826LR (Reserved)
NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
Flight Operations Engineer
Edwards AFB, CA 93523
ron.wilcox(at)dfrc.nasa.gov
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov
P.S: I'm curious how many responses I'll get on the backward engine? ;-o
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com> |
I have pulled 6 g's in my RV-6A for a full two turns in an 85 degree bank and
all I could see was the G meter and the nearby airspeed indicator and just a
hazy piece of horizon. My passenger, for whom the demonstration was given at
his request, was peacefully sleeping through the maneuver after we got past 4
G's. Even though he and I are both experienced military pilots, I had the
advantage of getting tensed up before the pull and knowing how fast I was
going to get to the 6 G level, (quite fast so that I wouldn't run out of
airspeed so quick). I released the pull at 100 knots because I was not sure
when It would stall at that G load. You will know if you are pulling 6 G's,
because if you are still consious, you will have a very small field of vision
and it will feel like you are going to be pushed out of the bottom of the
plane. The rate of turn is fantastic!
Don't worry about the accuracy of your meter if it reads 1 g at rest. There
is not much to go wrong with them.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
> I to am having that same problem up and down. I don't want to cut the
flange
> off of the HS spar but it does not look like I'm going to have a choice.
Any
> ideas?
Trim 'em off, they do nothing in the center area anyway, since the left and
right aren't directly joined in the middle.
Alex P. 6A (fixing slider canopy frame with the red wrench)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | UFOBUCK <UFOBUCK(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dallas RV'ers |
Re your post relative to your visit in the Dal/FtWorth area. I wouldn't be
surprised if you find there are 50+ RV under construction in that area. It is
a real HOT BED of RV fanatics.
I must warn you though- If you get any response from members of the Texas Butt
Crack Squadron run to the nearest exit, do not respond, avoid these people at
all cost !
They have some great looking airplanes and are top drawer builders but they
are the most wayward, zestful, bawdy group that you would ever meet..
You have heard the old story about kid that was so ugly that his mother had to
hang meat around his neck just to get the dog to play with him-did you ever
wonder what happened to the kid when he grew up ? You got it - the Texas Butt
Crack Squadron.
Regards, Juan Winglo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | UFOBUCK <UFOBUCK(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dallas RV'ers |
<< will be on a business trip to Irving and was wondering if any rv'ers
are in the area and would welcome a visit? I will be there from
Jan.25-30. and will also be in the Sherman area the same time.Thnx and
pls respond off list. Thnx Richard Miller
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
<< Well I have been using a clamp that you would
use if sharpening a handsaw. It has a gripping surface of about 11 in. ,will
hold a piece that is up to 5 in in depth and tightens on a cam lobe. >>
And just what mught one call such a tool, if they were to walk into a store
and ask for one?
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is the list working? |
<< Is the list working? >>
Yes it is. I recieved your message just fine.
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)e2.empirenet.com> |
| Subject: | Per Minute Surcharges -Reply |
Hi all,
I got this back from the FCC's ISP when I sent my views regarding the surcharges.
Happy New Year
Larry
ISP wrote:
> This is an automated response to the message you sent to isp(at)fcc.gov. We established
this mailbox for informal comments about usage of the public switched
telephone network by Internet access and information service providers for a
proceeding on this matter in 1997.
>
> If you are responding to a message stating that local phone companies have asked
the FCC for permission to impose per-minute charges for Internet access, please
be aware that this information is out of date. The FCC decided in May 1997
NOT to allow imposition of interstate access charges on Internet service providers.
There is no comment period currently open in this proceeding.
>
> More information on Access Charges and the ISP proceeding is available at <http://www.fcc.gov/isp.html>
>
> Look for more features and announcements on our Web site, <http://www.fcc.gov/>, in the future!
>
> updated 1/6/98
--
Larry D. Hoatson Yucaipa, CA Redlands (L12) Airport
lhoatson(at)empirenet.com
Restoring 1950 Cessna 170A N9948A... Looking forward to RV-6
"Either Raise Your Skill Level... or Lower Your Standards"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RWilliJill <RWilliJill(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Overhaul |
kbeene
I,m interested in doing something similar. Send itemized cost list.
Thansks
RWilliJill(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator |
<< chester razer wrote:
>
> Today while checking the mixture setting on my engine I noticed that my
> alternator was supplying 15.3 volts as read on my RMI monitor. I am
> using the adjustable regulator from Vans. Is this too high a voltage
> output and if so what to do about it?
> --
> Chet Razer
I have the fixed regulator, it's set at 13.8 and my RMI monitor
shows 14.5. I don't know which one is wrong, the monitor, or the
regulator, but 14.5 is a little
to high for the concord XC-25. Seems odd, everything else on the
monoitor works great.
Craig Hiers
>>
I haven't run my engine yet, but comparing the votage reading on the
micromonitor to a calibrated Fluke 87 voltmeter, the monitor is reading
exactly the same.
Mark LaBoyteaux
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod <WoodardRod(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
> Finished the HS, Finished the VS. Got a couple of dings in the skins from
> new guy riveting. What is acceptable to fix the dings? Can I use a
> little body filler or what? The dings are minor, (I think!!??) but still
> noticeable.
>
Hi Bill,
The best advice I've received in my short building career is to set your
finished part aside and decide what to do with your dents later. Compare your
project to others you see at fly-ins. By the time you're finished with your
project you'll have a much better perspective on what to try and fix and what
not to.
At the time you paint, you may or may not decide to use a filler to take care
of your dings. If you paint your bird yourself, the decsion re: what to use is
yours. If you have somebody else paint it, they may have a strong preference.
I've got a few on my HS that I'll probably do something with, but the jury's
still out.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 (starting on the wing control surfaces)
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GallienM(at)epenergy.com |
Regarding the question of G-Meter accuracy. Assuming level
coordinated flight a 60 degree bank
will yield 2 g's. The 6 g's reported by James is very close.
The formula indicates a 80.4 degree bank will
produce 6 g's. The G force effect is exponential though as 85
degrees of bank produces 11 g's. The formula
for calculating G force is 1.0/cos(bank angle).
A suggestion would be to fly a level coordinated 60 degree
banked turn and check the results.
Then you might try the following bank angles to verify the
G-Meter accuracy.
degree of bank
G Force
30
1.2
45
1.4
60
2.0
75
3.86
matt g
AA1-C
Acro - 1 (under const)
RV's (I like them)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Cone [SMTP:JamesCone(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 10:45 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: G-meter
>
>
> I have pulled 6 g's in my RV-6A for a full two turns in an 85 degree
> bank and
> all I could see was the G meter and the nearby airspeed indicator and
> just a
> hazy piece of horizon. My passenger, for whom the demonstration was
> given at
> his request, was peacefully sleeping through the maneuver after we got
> past 4
> G's. Even though he and I are both experienced military pilots, I had
> the
> advantage of getting tensed up before the pull and knowing how fast I
> was
> going to get to the 6 G level, (quite fast so that I wouldn't run out
> of
> airspeed so quick). I released the pull at 100 knots because I was
> not sure
> when It would stall at that G load. You will know if you are pulling
> 6 G's,
> because if you are still consious, you will have a very small field of
> vision
> and it will feel like you are going to be pushed out of the bottom of
> the
> plane. The rate of turn is fantastic!
>
> Don't worry about the accuracy of your meter if it reads 1 g at rest.
> There
> is not much to go wrong with them.
>
> Jim Cone
> RV-6A flying
>
>
>
wrong with them.
>
> Jim Cone
> RV-6A flying
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kbeene <Kbeene(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Overhaul |
Engine 35000-320-E3D 2244 hrs
Material/Par 3037
gasket set $101
silk thread $5
Hylomar $4
engine paint $15
main bearings $144
rod bearings $52
rod bolts $139
rod nuts $19
cam shaft (new) $525
cam followers (rebuilt) $152
pistons $145
piston pin $130
comp ring (8) Chrome $352
oil ring (4) $71
exhaust valves $676
valve keepers $37
exhaust valve caps $31
oil return hose $3
intake hose $11
oil pressure spring $12
crank bolt $15
crank dowel $18
crank plug $2
exhaust studs $17
exhaust guide $52
rod bushings $10
rocker bushings $20
exhaust valve guides $58
spark plugs $63
ignition harness $147
Oil Filter $11
Machine Work 1420
Clean & zyglo cylinders $156
replace & bore exhaust g $108
mill exhaust flanges $108
replace studs $80
grind .010 oversize & cr $276
grind seats, valves, lap $176
clean & zyglo case $92
bore check & inspect cas $72
clean, magnaflux & inspe $55
polish crank & install p $37
replace crank gear dowel $68
rebush & line bore rods $84
rebush -bore-reface rock $108
Total 7957
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
> Finished the HS, Finished the VS. Got a couple of dings in the skins from
> new guy riveting. What is acceptable to fix the dings? Can I use a
> little body filler or what? The dings are minor, (I think!!??) but still
> noticeable.
Some of the guys have recommended bondo before painting. I've got a ding
in my HS that I'll probably fix that way.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Don't Turn Back was, First Flight Anticipation |
>The FIRST response to an engine failure after Take Off should always be to
>lower the nose go straight ahead.
>If my legacy on the RV-List is the "Defender of Don't Turn Back." I will
>wear it as a badge of honor.
>Until ALL respond without hesitation "Lower the nose & Land Straight Ahead"...
Add me to the list. A turn back to the airport is a long, slow, tight
turning dangerous maneuver. It is not 180 degrees but a 245 degree or so
right (or left) turn followed by another turn to get back to center line.
No thanks. I have many fields ALREADY picked out, depending on where I am
in the pattern (one of which, by the way, is the airport). Want to know how
much altitude the "turn back" takes? Go up and do it sometime. Yikes!
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kbeene <Kbeene(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator |
<< >>
I haven't run my engine yet, but comparing the votage reading on the
micromonitor to a calibrated Fluke 87 voltmeter, the monitor is reading
exactly the same. >>
Ditto with a calibrated Fluke 76. Maybe because I calibrated the RMI
referrence voltage with the same meter.
Ken Beene
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
>Do any of you builders nearing airworthiness find yourself thinking of
excuses >to delay the first flight? I was daydreaming about my first flight
someday: >the details. Actually rolling this craft, which was built by none
other than
>myself..........
I would be a little worried if you WEREN'T a little apprehensive. As your
building progresses you will become more familiar with this piece of
sculpture you are putting together and, having spent many hours "flying" it
in the garage, you will be in a familiar place when you are, for the first
time, sitting out at the end of the runway. You will fly it when you run
out of excuses not to! Wait until you.....YOU.....are ready. I had a small
list of folks that wanted to be there for the first flight. My inspection
had been done and it was just up to me. I got up one morning and knew today
was the day. No one there but my neighbor and favorite riveter (my wife).
Several people saw me take off and were there when I landed, which was nice.
SO:
*While you're building, stay current, especially as the day nears.
*Be as familiar with your airplane as possible by "dry flying" it as
soon as you're able to sit in the cockpit.
*Don't invite a crowd for the first flight (who needs THAT pressure).
*Don't go until YOU feel it is the right time to go.
*Get some stick time in another RV. Not just flying around: slow
flight, stalls, approach to landings, etc.
*Talk to as many other RV pilots about their airplane's flight
characteristics (gives you an idea of what to expect from yours).
*Relax and enjoy the flight: it IS like your first solo; maybe even
better!!
The RV series is a bunch of good airplanes. They have been well designed,
and built by a WIDE variety of builders, most of whom have never built
before. Their airplanes are flying; yours will to, and will fly well. Go
do it.
Keep building
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator |
<< I am
using the adjustable regulator from Vans. Is 15.3V too high a voltage
output and if so what to do about it? >>
First, check to make sure your RMI unit is correctly calibrated. It should
read around 12V with the battery on-line and the engine not running. For an
RG battery you do not want to exceed about 2.35V per cell or (around 14V).
15.3 will cook if not explode your battery in a relatively short period IMO.
I would also recommend you get an add-on crowbar OV protection module.
Contact Bob Nuckolls at www.aeroelectric.com
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator |
<< I have the fixed regulator, it's set at 13.8 and my RMI monitor
shows 14.5. I don't know which one is wrong, the monitor, or the
regulator, but 14.5 is a little
to high for the concord XC-25. >>
You guys need to find out if the RMIs are reading right IMO. A calibrated
digital voltmeter is best to use and you need to measure at the battery
terminals because this is what the battery sees. There may be a small delta V
between what the monitor sees at what the battery sees depending on voltage
drop and the point that you sample the voltage. The voltage at the battery
terminals should be about 14V if an RG battery.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RXDOG1 <RXDOG1(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
It might be worth it to take the wing or part to a local "dent doctor" car
repair shop. I hear that "painless dent removal" is preferable to filling and
sanding on critical aluminum parts.
RV4- need to order fusealage Cree Fetterman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Interior Paint Choices |
I am at the stage (instrument panel fab) where I want to begin interior
painting and although the color is decided I have several other decisions
to make.
1) Gloss or Semi-gloss? The instrument panel will be semigloss but what do
most planes have for the rest of the interior.
2) In the Becky Orndorf Interior video she cautions against gluing fabric
over a painted interior surface because the 3M spray adhesive will not
adhere well. Does anyone have any contrary experience with this?
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument Panel
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
If you do be sure they understand that this is an airplane that uses
monocoque (sp??) construction. The skin bears most of the load.
My feeling is that if the dent is from riveting that it can't be that big.
As someone said earlier, wait until after you've built more of the plane. If
it still is too big and too obvious then you might consider using
micro-balloon filler (Ultra-fill, maybe).
Really, paint covers lots of dings and you will be the only one to notice
any more than 10% of them.
>
>It might be worth it to take the wing or part to a local "dent doctor" car
>repair shop. I hear that "painless dent removal" is preferable to filling and
>sanding on critical aluminum parts.
> RV4- need to order fusealage Cree Fetterman
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | List Support Summary... |
Listers,
I would like to sincerely thank everyone that contributed to the RV and
Zenith Lists this time around. The funds have allowed me to upgrade to
a dedicated Internet connection and, while it was a little touch-n-go there
for a while, things seem to be working quite well now. Moving off the
UUCP connection has definitely made the administration of the Lists
a much easier task.
Below is the current list of contributors. If I missed your name, I will
likely post a followup as I am still receiving a few contributions each
week. If you would like to contribute but forgot the address, please send
List Support
c/o Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550
or you may FAX credit card info to:
510-606-6281 FAX
Thank you again for your generous support of the List! YOU make it all
possible.
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
----------------------- Current Contributors ------------------------
John Abell
Patrick Allender
Peter Bennet
Carroll Bird
Warren Bishop
Wayne Bonestell
Greg Booze
Robert Bower
Michael Brogley
Wayne Buescher
Maurice Colontonio
James Cone
Timothy Cotter
Ken Crabtree
W.B. Cretsinger
John Denman
John Devlin
Donald Diehl
Brian Eckstein
David Faile
Robert Gibbons
Roy Glass
Sherman Hales
Robert Hall
Kenneth Harrill
Michael Hartmann
Cecil Hatfield
Ian Heritch
Mark Hiatt
Craig Hiers
Don Jordon
K.H. Kempthorne
L.M. Klingmuller
Bruce Knoll
Kevin Lane
Paul Lein
Tim Lewis
Edward Loveday
Lawrence MacDonald
Donald McNamara
Allan Mojzisik
Marvin Morrison
J.C. Paterson
Paul Peterson
David Pfister
George Pinneo
Robert Reiff
Douglas Rozendaal
Andres San Clemente
Thomas Sargent
Philip Smith
Stephen Soule
Terrel Stern
Ron Taborek
Ronald VanDervort
Horace Weeks
Louis Willig
Rolf Wittwer
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa <BPattonsoa(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't Turn Back was, First Flight Anticipation |
I just picked up this thread. As a glider pilot, we are trained to return to
the airport if above 200'. Takes a right and left turn, and can be easily
done with a 35/1 glide ratio. With a 9/1 ratio of any power plane, it would
be at least 800', except you will be further away when you turn, therefore at
least 1000' or so.
Want to try it? Go to a glider port and ask to do rope breaks. It is a
requirement to solo at most sites. Also very interesting, especially with
some tail wind component.
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
They do make an Aluminium Epoxy - 2 part mix that is lighter than bondo and
does
stick to the existing aluminium.
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lizjess(at)cdsnet.net |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections |
to
ISPs]
Derek Reed wrote:
>
> --
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections to
> ISPs
> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:15:57 -0500
> From: Larry Kenney <lkenney(at)slip.net> (by way of John Cunliffe <cunliffe(at)frontiernet.net>)
> To: vhf(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
>
> Here's some news about some potentially expensive legislation being
> considered by the FCC. I'm going to send the FCC email with my
> opinion and I hope you might want to do the same. The information
> below was forwarded to me by a friend and had about four pages of
> headers attached, which I have removed.
>
> I suggest you forward this message to everyone you know who uses the
> Internet! We can't let this sneak by!
>
> Larry Kenney
> lkenney(at)slip.net
> http://www.choisser.com/
>
> **************************************************************
> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:30:06 -0800
> From: Ann Merrill <amerrill(at)slip.net>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (WinNT; I)
> MIME-Version: 1.0
>
> Subject: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections to ISPs
> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> The following message came to me from a retired executive of the
> Southern Connecticut Bell Telephone Company. It seems that local phone
> companies throughout the United States are supporting legislation that
> would impose "per minute" charges for our connection to Internet
> Service Providers.
>
> I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter.
> Currently under review by the FCC: Your local telephone company
> has filed a proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your
> internet service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the
> operation of the telephone network. It is my belief that internet
> usage will diminish if users were required to pay additional per
> minute charges. The FCC has created an email box for your comments.
> Responses must be received by February 13, 1998.
>
> Send your comments to isp(at)fcc.gov and tell them what you think.
> Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to
> sneak it in just under the wire for legislation. Let everyone you know
> hear about this one. Get the e-mail address of everyone you can
> think of and ask them to e-mail to: isp(at)fcc.gov
>
> ------
> Submissions: vhf(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
> Subscription/removal requests: vhf-request(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
> Human list administrator: vhf-approval(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
If this request goes through there will be many of us who will not be
able to belong to an internet system. What a shame this would be. I do
not want this to happen. What else can I do?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Elevator counterweights |
I just poured my elevator counterweights and I have created a problem.
In order to get enough lead in the tips, it takes a little more than the 5/8"
depth of the rib flange, especially on the left side with the electric trim
servo in place.
This means that I have lead up to my rivet holes in the two tipmost rivet
holes. It will not be possible to remove lead from there. So, I will not be
able to put in the rivets in the forward end of the fiberglass tip.
I'm just wondering if it will be OK to leave out the rivets from the forward
end of the tip.
Mark McGee
RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | The Wings are on!! |
Well, today was the big day. The wings are now on my RV-6. It was
anti-climactic, really. They slid right on, and fit just fine. I bought
some bolts from the hardware store and ground the threads off of them to
use to help center things up. That worked beautifully. Just some light
tapping with the hammer was all that was required to get all the bolts to
seat.
The whole process took maybe an hour. Of course, I did not get much done
today after that. I could not stop gazing at the sight of my airplane with
the wings actually attached.
Best Regards,
dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
flying soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Paint Choices |
>2) In the Becky Orndorf Interior video she cautions against gluing fabric
>over a painted interior surface because the 3M spray adhesive will not
>adhere well. Does anyone have any contrary experience with this?
>Thanks.
>Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument Panel
>Barrington, IL
I can talk about that. I used 3M spray adhesive to glue foam and vinyl
sides to the urathane painted interior of my RV. It worked great - - - - -
for about 4 to 6 months. Then the adhesive kind of lost it's tackiness.
The panels fell off one by one.
I can tell you, though, that MEK will dissolve the remaining glue without
any damage to the urathane.
Does Becky have any alternatives for fastening panels to the interior?
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rcowens126 <Rcowens126(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Anticipation |
wrote:
>>I agree with most everything you said. However, I hope you don't teach
'straight ahead' when an engine quits to your students (or did I
misunderstand you?). When I started my training, it was in gliders; snip>>
My best pilot buddy was killed in the crash of his C-T210 when the engine
failed shortly after takeoff. He was a high time sailplane pilot, too. IMHO I
truly believe a big factor in his crash was his sailplane experience which
enticed him to attempt a 180 to return to the runway... to save the plane. A
railway track was available straight ahead. I am in the "straight ahead" camp
when taking off..
Bob Owens
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
| Subject: | The Wings are on!! |
>
>
>Well, today was the big day. The wings are now on my RV-6.
Dave I just fitted the flap to the LH wing & ready to nail some thin
down.
I have to assemble & check the F604 bulkhead to the wings while I am
waiting for the fuselage kit. Any points to check? Should I try a pre fit
to the wings before I store them?
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
How does one get the last rivets on at the narrow end of elevators? I
can'nt even get the thin nose to fit in there......Poprivets?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't Turn Back was, First Flight Anticipation |
All,
Since I feel quite strongly about this issue and rather than force feed my
editorial to all, and to save bandwidth, I stuck an essay on the subject on
the web. You can find it at this address:
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr/dnt-turn.htm
If you don't respond to the: engine failure after takeoff without
hesitation, "Lower the nose and Land straight ahead." Please read it. If
you don't have web access and would like a copy e-mail me off the list and I
will send it to you.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Dings in the Skins |
I don't know what kind of "dent doctors" you have in your area and I don't
know what "painless dent removal" entails, but I doubt that many auto body
shops have any experience removing dents from aircraft grade aluminum or
structures. And unless they could convince me that they do, I sure wouldn't
trust them to remove dents from any of MY aircraft parts.
If the dents are minor, they are easily repaired with any number of fillers
and the required sanding will not damage your skins. If one can figure out
how to build a plane, one can certainly figure this out too. Do some
research, talk to some other builders. If you just don't want to do it, the
aircraft paint shops know what they are doing and can do it for you. But,
like someone else suggested, I wouldn't do anything with them for now, except
maybe get an experienced builder, technical counselor, or A&P to look them
over to see how "bad" they really are.
It might be worth it to take the wing or part to a local "dent doctor" car
repair shop. I hear that "painless dent removal" is preferable to filling and
sanding on critical aluminum parts.
RV4- need to order fusealage Cree Fetterman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>How does one get the last rivets on at the narrow end of elevators? I
>can'nt even get the thin nose to fit in there......Poprivets?
>
I used Pops...even those were hard to fit in there. Had to kinda work
the one on the opposite side from the set rivet already in place as it
was being squeezed..but it came out fine. (I think they were CS4-4,
simply drilled out the #40 holes to #30).
Brian Denk
-8 wings
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator |
Ideal is 13.75
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: New Sensenich prop for O-360 |
Bill Pace wrote:
>
>
> According to the Sensenich web page, the new O-360 prop is ready for sale!
> However they do not give any pricing information. There's no info on Van's
> page either. Does anyone know how much it will cost? Will Van's have a
> better OEM price than Sensenich will want for direct sales?
>
>The cost is I recall, $1870 I have one on order with a Mar. 15 shipping date.
They also indicated they will have an aluminum spinner for sale as well.
Rgds
Tom Olson
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AIRPLANEIT <AIRPLANEIT(at)aol.com> |
Callings all listers from down under....I'm hoping you can help me. I'm
pondering the possibilities of becoming a foreign exchange student and
visiting your country for a bit (If you don't mind, of course ) And, I am
currently a student pilot in the US, hoping to be soon a private. If I were
to be in Australia for a bit, can I log time? Do I need the CAA's (I think
that's what it is) equivalent license? If I were to get additional ratings
there, would I be able to transfer them back to the US with minimal or any
check outs? How much more expensive is it?
And, on the subject on foreign exchange students......anyone have any
connections or friends or anything that can help me get more info on the
subject? Anyone ever housed one? The odds are slim, but it's worth a shot to
ask.
If anyone can help me in any way, or if you know something I should know, feel
free to e-mail privately, no need to post responses on the list and soak up
archive space. Any help would be greatly appreciated. And to Matt Dralle,
this may be off the subject, but it was the best way to find the information I
needed, I apologize.
-Nick
Stolley
Woodbury,
MN, US
30 hour
student pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Paint Choices |
Durable.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The Wings are on!! |
I don't want to know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Interior Paint Choices |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I can talk about that. I used 3M spray adhesive to glue foam and
>vinyl
>sides to the urathane painted interior of my RV. It worked great - - -
>- -
>for about 4 to 6 months. Then the adhesive kind of lost it's
>tackiness.
>The panels fell off one by one.
>
>I can tell you, though, that MEK will dissolve the remaining glue
>without
>any damage to the urathane.
>
>Does Becky have any alternatives for fastening panels to the interior?
>
I have had good success on a couple of RV's using Liquid pliobond
brushed on from a can. Everything is still stuck on my airplane after 5
years, and the entire interior is painted with Durathane.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Cash for RV-8 Wing Kit |
I have just completed my RV-8 tailkit and would like to buy a wing kit,
preferably unstarted, but would consider all. Would take with a tailkit also
if the price is right. Must be located in Oregon or Washington. Would prefer a
more recent serial #.
Please contact off list;
Von Alexander
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Salem, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjustable Voltage Regulator |
<< Ideal is 13.75 >>
Please cite you sources for this claim. All of the battery company experts
(including those in Battery Man Magazine) claim that 2.35V/cell is ideal for
their RG technology batteries, regardless of brand.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/10/98 11:04:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
writes:
> How does one get the last rivets on at the narrow end of elevators? I
> can'nt even get the thin nose to fit in there......Poprivets?
I took a pair of vise grip pliers and ground them so they would fit in there.
A 3/32 inch rivet can be squeezed with them. To keep from damaging the skin,
I have a steel plate 1/8 inch thick and about one inch square. I place this
on the flush rivet head and then squeeze with the vise grips. I works all
right for the last rivets.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 1/11/98 12:21:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
> I used Pops...even those were hard to fit in there. Had to kinda work
> the one on the opposite side from the set rivet already in place as it
> was being squeezed..but it came out fine. (I think they were CS4-4,
> simply drilled out the #40 holes to #30).
You might want to look at the MK 319 BS (7/64 monel) or the BSC 34 (3/32
aluminum) flush head rivets for those places that are too tight for squeezing.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul and Janet Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
1 . Here is a question for anyone with individual power supplies and
wingtip strobes. Is it a good idea to use shielded wire from the panel
switch to the power supplies? I plan to mount my power supplies as close
to the wingtip strobes as I can so the noisy high voltage run is as short
as possable but I don't know if the 12v to the power supply generates
radio/intercom noise and should be shielded too.
2 . Does any one have a set of plans for engine baffles for an IO-360?
I will be using a Dave Ander's style plenum . ( When I got my engine
from The Mod Shop all the baffles had been removed except the two
Lycoming supplied pieces between the cylinders)
3 . What type of intake sump drain should I install in the 1/8" pipe
thread hole in the bottom of the cast sump? ( it too was missing on my
engine).
Any help from those who have gone this route before will be great ....
Cheers,Paul
6A IO-360
90% done/90% to go
_____________________________________
* The Leins *
* 1555 South Brinton Road *
* Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 *
* (517) 644-2451 *
_____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Elevator counterweights |
F Mark40 wrote:
>
>
> I just poured my elevator counterweights and I have created a problem.
>
> In order to get enough lead in the tips, it takes a little more than the 5/8"
> depth of the rib flange, especially on the left side with the electric trim
> servo in place.
>
> This means that I have lead up to my rivet holes in the two tipmost rivet
> holes. It will not be possible to remove lead from there. So, I will not be
> able to put in the rivets in the forward end of the fiberglass tip.
>
> I'm just wondering if it will be OK to leave out the rivets from the forward
> end of the tip.
>
> Mark McGee
Mark: I was afraid of the same thing when I installed the lead. So, I
moved the aft bulkhead for the lead back about 1/2 inch. This allowed
for the proper amount of lead in the counterweight. If you can remove
the lead down to where you can rivet the tips, then drill out the rivets
holding the aft bulkhead, then move it back a little then pour lead in
the cavity that has resulted.
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd Craven Jr." <boyd(at)iavbbs.com> |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD1E72.7AB83700"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD1E72.7AB83700
Hello, I am testing the ability to reach you for a customer of ours who =
seems to have trouble. Please respond when you get this.
Boyd Craven, InterActiVision Online Services
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD1E72.7AB83700
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Hello, I am testing the ability to =
reach you for=20
a customer of ours who seems to have trouble. Please respond when you =
get=20
this.
Boyd Craven, InterActiVision Online=20
Services
------=_NextPart_000_0014_01BD1E72.7AB83700--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Engine installation |
Hi all,
After bolting the Van's new o-320 engine into the RV-6A, I was carefully
following the instructions in the wonderfull :-( owners manual and couldn't
understand what they were talking about until I realised that this 1973
document covered dozens of different models/options.
After removing the sparkplugs and letting the oil out and turning the engine
as instructed, I tried to find a "oil strainer" . Is this the "oil suction
screen" at the back(aft) of the sump?
The Service Instruction (#1472) says to inspect the "induction riser". What
is this?
It has to be clean and dry before installing the "fuel servo". What's a
"fuel servo"?
If not oil free, clean the induction system in the sump. What is involved in
this operation?
"t may also be necessary to inspect, clean and reinstall the intake pipes."
Don't tell me, these are the large tubes coming from the sump, right?
Tony B's Engine book makes no mention of these operations when he installed
his new engine in his RV-6A.
I guess a detailed diagram of the engine supplied would be an unreasonable
inclusion for an $18,000 engine. There isn't one picture with a spin-on oil
filter. Forget about the new starter. My engine has 2 Slick magnetos not
even mentioned. My model should have Bendix units.
Ah, the joys of a near monopoly.
Thanks
Royce
roycec(at)ozemail.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Adjusting Voltage Regulator |
I have received many responses regarding the proper voltage output from
my alternator for an RG battery like Vans sell (the one I'm using).
However, no one has responded with the proper method of adjusting the
trimpot on the back side of the regulator Vans sells in order to achieve
the ideal 13.8 volts. I'm not even sure if the engine should be running
and the entire electrical system operating or if the unit can be set
under static conditions (engine not running and simply set the regulator
with a meter). I'm measuring my alternator output with my RMI micro
monitor. During its construction the reference voltage of the unit was
checked and set with a Fluke digital meter so I am confident with the
reading being provided by the RMI unit.
Can someone tell me how to properly adjust the V/R to achieve 13.8 volts
out.
--
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Paint Choices |
I just put my wings on and I'm thinking about interior choices. From what I
read I'm to understand there is someone who stick on interior fabs. I'm
interested in this and if anyone has any info please post it.
Carey Mills
Drilling rear wing spars to fuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
----------
> From: mcomeaux <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: Elevators
> Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 9:45 PM
>
>
> How does one get the last rivets on at the narrow end of elevators? I
> can'nt even get the thin nose to fit in there......Poprivets?
>
Dimpling the elevator tips is harder than riveting. To dimple, countersink
a small rectangular piece of 1/8 steel or aluminum plate near an edge to
create the female die. Clamp the rectangular piece firmly to a table
surface or in a drill press or milling vise.
Use a rivet as the male set and carefully tap on the rivet using a 1/8
drive punch.
To set difficult rivets like this (there will be many more!) I ground the
nose of the Tatco 1" x 1" yoke (Avery part number 1111) down to 1/8" at the
end of the taper. It works great for 3/32 rivets (deforms too much for
1/8). Many builders near me have used this yoke to set rivets in tight
places.
Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument Panel
Barrington, IL
"bypassing" as it bypasses the undesirable AC to ground. You can purchase
these capacitors from Radio Shack
Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument Panel
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "les williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)classic.msn.com> |
I don't think there is any reason to shield the 12 volt power supply wire to
the strobe power supply. I had mine mounted the same and had no interference.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
<37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
1 . Here is a question for anyone with individual power supplies and
wingtip strobes. Is it a good idea to use shielded wire from the panel
switch to the power supplies? I plan to mount my power supplies as close
to the wingtip strobes as I can so the noisy high voltage run is as short
as possable but I don't know if the 12v to the power supply generates
radio/intercom noise and should be shielded too.
____________________________________
* The Leins *
* 1555 South Brinton Road *
* Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 *
* (517) 644-2451 *
_____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Elevator counterweights |
Mark
Use some proseal and glue the tips on, use the rivits you can and let the
proseal do its thing on the front.
Joe Hine
C-FYTQ RV4
->
>I'm just wondering if it will be OK to leave out the rivets from the
forward
>end of the tip.
>
>Mark McGee
>RV4
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: three questions |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
> 2 . Does any one have a set of plans for engine baffles for an
>IO-360?
>I will be using a Dave Ander's style plenum . ( When I got my engine
>from The Mod Shop all the baffles had been removed except the two
>Lycoming supplied pieces between the cylinders)
The Van's baffle kit vendor has been working on a baffle kit for the
IO-360 for use on the RV-8 but I don't think it is available yet.
If you have the drawings for the O-360 baffles you can probably make your
own using the general concept of those (you would probably have to do a
number of modifications to the standard ones anyway if you use a closed
baffle plenum.
> 3 . What type of intake sump drain should I install in the 1/8" pipe
>thread hole in the bottom of the cast sump? ( it too was missing on my
>
>engine).
This is a very specific part that is often referred to as a snuffle
valve.
it has a check valve inside so that it closes while the engine is running
(and doesn't cause an intake leak), but opens when the engine is stopped
and allows excess fuel in the induction system to drain out.
I would call the engine place that did your work and tell them they left
out the valve. Seems to me they cost about 40 bucks.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
> Any help from those who have gone this route before will be great
>....
>Cheers,Paul
>6A IO-360
>90% done/90% to go
>
>
>_____________________________________
>* The Leins *
>* 1555 South Brinton Road *
>* Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 *
>* (517) 644-2451 *
>_____________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
the correct way.
Only turn it about 1/8 of a turn at a time to prevent over doing
it and maybe damaging something.
I believe what you are primarily adjusting is the charge voltage of the
battery so the most precise way would be with a DVM on the battery
terminals and set the reg for the battery charge voltage that you want,
regardless of what your panel instrument says the buss voltage is.
Hope this helps.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Elevator counterweights |
In a message dated 1/11/98 9:31:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
catbird(at)taylortel.com writes:
> Mark: I was afraid of the same thing when I installed the lead. So, I
> moved the aft bulkhead for the lead back about 1/2 inch. This allowed
> for the proper amount of lead in the counterweight. If you can remove
> the lead down to where you can rivet the tips, then drill out the rivets
> holding the aft bulkhead, then move it back a little then pour lead in
> the cavity that has resulted.
> Carroll
I wish I had the foreseen this as you had. Those little bulkheads should be
farther aft to keep the lead from being so deep. I did go the full 5/8 inch
on the inboard side, but it still required a little more on the outboard side.
I spent the morning trying to remove some lead with the Dremel tool to allow
the tips to fit, but it is no use. I also tried to melt it with a soldering
gun, but the mass of lead is just a giant heat sink.
To put the tips on now, I would have to trim the fiberglass from 1/2 inch to
1/4 inch which would cut into my rivet holes. This would leave the forward
two inches of fiberglass unriveted.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
akroguy(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> >How does one get the last rivets on at the narrow end of elevators? I
> >can'nt even get the thin nose to fit in there......Poprivets?
>
> I used Pops...even those were hard to fit in there. Had to kinda work
> the one on the opposite side from the set rivet already in place as it
> was being squeezed..but it came out fine. (I think they were CS4-4,
> simply drilled out the #40 holes to #30).
I wouldn't recommend drilling out to #30... consider edge distances,
etc first.
Somewhere in the -6 manual, Vans recommends MK319-BS poprivets in the
last one or two holes near the TE of the elevator. I managed to use
solid rivets for all but the last rivet, after slightly grinding the
nose of my Avery handsqueezer.
Another builder (not on the list) here in NZ built a bench-top
squeezer... an approximately triangular piece of steel maybe 8" long
by 1/2" thick tapering down from maybe 2" wide to maybe 1/2". It's
hinged at the thick end of the triangle. The thin end goes on the
rivet tail, with a solid backing plate set into the benchtop. Hit
somewhere between the hinge and the rivet with a hammer to set the
rivet.
Someone else commented on the difficulty of dimpling these last
holes... I managed that OK using some vise-grip dimplers I made.
You'll have other holes that are difficult to dimple too (wing spars,
rudder, flap & aileron TEs, etc) so you might as well get these now.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343 <JDaniel343(at)aol.com> |
I am wondering if the trim tab spar, the areas that contact the skin, are
suppose to be parallel to each other as they come from the factory or should
they be bent to conform to the airfoil shape?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343 <JDaniel343(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV-LIST Elevator Control Horn |
I need Help!
I did a real dumb thing the other night, I riveted the skin onto my left
elevator. I did a great job of riveting but proceeded to soon by not first
riveting on the control horn.
Would it be acceptable to use Cherrymax or other type of pop rivet?
Do any other ideas pop into your minds beside drilling out the skin rivets?
Thanks for your help everyone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
Some canopy questions:
1. Because of a factory supplied non symmetry with the aft bowed parts of
the frame, I'll need to modify them somewhat. Can anyone tell me how to go
about determining the approximate vertical positioning of the aft end of
the slider canopy frame? I have seen nothing in the various how-to guides
(Orndorff, Justice, Cone, et. al.) regarding this detail. Should the frame
be about one plexiglas thickness below a forward extension of the turtle
deck skins? Will this vertical position become obvious after the initial
plexiglas fit?
2. Is it important that the side rails be parallel with the main longerons,
as viewed from the side? Unless I shorten the rear canopy bows, the side
rails are going to have to be lower at the aft end than at the front.
Thanks much in advance.
Alex Peterson
6A
Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST Elevator Control Horn |
>
> I did a real dumb thing the other night, I riveted the skin onto my left
> elevator. I did a great job of riveting but proceeded to soon by not first
> riveting on the control horn.
Not as dumb as what I did... rivetted the *Left* horn onto my Right
elevator :-(
> Would it be acceptable to use Cherrymax or other type of pop rivet?
I don't think a pop rivet would be strong enough. Could be wrong, I
guess.
> Do any other ideas pop into your minds beside drilling out the skin rivets?
You wouldn't need to drill out too many rivets... maybe a dozen or
twenty. Just enough to get your hand and bucking bar in the inboard
area. Even so, whether this is feasible depends on how good you are at
drilling out 3/32" flush rivets.
Have you already drilled/deburred the horn attachment holes? If not,
then if you don't drill out the rivets, you can't deburr their
insides. Not to mention all those Al shavings rattling round inside.
If anyone comes up with other solutions, I'd like to add them to my
"Bunny's Guide to RV Building"...
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny1b.htm
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Wing Tip Ribs: |
I have reached the point of Rib Prep - I have them fluted, thank god all the
notches are pre cut from Vans, I was looking to make a Tip Rib Drill Template,
but seem to be missing the spacing for this. Or I can't see the forest
through the trees.
Thanks for the help.
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
Main spar in the Jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
If anyone on the list is interested, Superior Air Parts has the Concord
RG-25XC on sale for $85.00. Or they did last week anyway. This is the same
physical size as the RG-25, but has the cranking power of the RG-35.
Regards,
Louis Smith
lousmith(at)aol.com
RV8 N801RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | curt & linda <kelson(at)cinci.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Cincinnati Quickbuild |
Is there anyone in the Greater Cincinnati, OH (maybe within an hour or
so) area that has a RV6 quickbuild kit and wouldn't mind me taking a
look at the kit. I had started a regular kit back in 1989 and completed
the tail and part of the wings before other things caused me to stop and
sell the kit. I am now ready to get back in and would like to look over
a quick build kit if possible.
Curt Hoffman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator mounting |
>Has anyone mounted the Van's (AS) gascolator with the input/output fore and
aft?
>What pipe fittings did you use to go through the firewall and into the
>gascolator?
>Is the bracket from AS any good?
>Royce Craven
Royce,
I mounted the gascolator fore & aft. I didn't used a bulkhead fitting. I
went through the firewall with the 3/8 fuel line (protected by a rubber
grommet) right into the gascolator. As the gascolator is solidly affixed to
the firewall, I figured that the gas line would stayed centered in the
rubber grommet and there would be no chance for the fuel line to rub on the
firewall. So far, after 390 hrs and two condition inspections, the
installation has worked as expected.
I didn't used the ACS gascolator bracket. It seemed flimsy and it didn't
allow the gascolator to clear the bottom engine mount (horizontal) tube. I
used the bracket off a wrecked Cherokee 140 that I bought.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hrs Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
> It might be worth it to take the wing or part to a local "dent doctor" car
> repair shop. I hear that "painless dent removal" is preferable to filling and
> sanding on critical aluminum parts.
I have never enjoyed body work or drywall. I just don't seem to have the touch.
However, recently I dropped the bucking bar into the leading edge as I was
rivetting and it made as noticable ding in the skin. I have never before tried
to hammer out a ding, but decided to give it a try. I found a cheap body hammer
and anvil set at one of the cheap tool stores. The tools were of poor quality
because of poor machining. A while spent on the scotchbrite wheel to fix
them up and they're fine now. I read in a body book about how to approach a
ding, and to my surprise, it worked. Maybe 10 minutes of careful work. The
ding is gone. No filler needed.
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I used pop rivets on my elevators. When I did my ailerons and flaps,
though, I found that it was possible to drive ordinary AN rivets in the
tips if you use a bucking bar that fits in there and great care with the
rivet gun. Avery sells a bucking bar with one end that looks vaguely
like a hammer and the other end a "shoe". This is the one to use.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
From: mcomeaux [SMTP:mcomeaux(at)cmc.net]
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 1998 10:45 PM
To: RV-List
Subject: RV-List: Elevators
How does one get the last rivets on at the narrow end of
elevators? I
can'nt even get the thin nose to fit in there......Poprivets?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST Elevator Control Horn |
>I need Help!
>I did a real dumb thing the other night, I riveted the skin onto my
left
>elevator. I did a great job of riveting but proceeded to soon by not
first
>riveting on the control horn.
>Would it be acceptable to use Cherrymax or other type of pop rivet?
>Do any other ideas pop into your minds beside drilling out the skin
rivets?
>Thanks for your help everyone
Yikes! I'll bet you're not the first one. Well, I'd go about it thusly:
1. Remove enough rivets along the inboard rib and spar on both sides and
see if you can peel back the skin sufficiently to get your or a smaller
(wife's?) hand in there with the smallest bucking bar you can find.
2. Drill the horn to the spar and rib and debur the inside holes with a
scotchbrite pad or emery paper..whatever it takes to get it done.
3. Rivet the horn with AN4's where you can get them bucked..and use
steel shanked blind rivets where you can't (such as near the spar/rib
junction).
4. Rivet the skin back on and use some "oops" rivets (sold by Van's) in
the holes that are too wallowed out for a proper fit of an AN-3 rivet.
I claim no greater wisdom than anybody else here, but this is how I'd go
about solving the problem. Keep us informed of how it goes and
especially let Frank Van der Hulst and I know if this procedure works
for you.
Hang in there!
Brian Denk
-8 wing stuff
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6A Slider frame |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>1. Because of a factory supplied non symmetry with the aft bowed parts
>of
>the frame, I'll need to modify them somewhat. Can anyone tell me how
>to go
>about determining the approximate vertical positioning of the aft end
>of
>the slider canopy frame?
I usually recommend to builders that they don't commit to a vertical
positions (which means don't permanently lock in the for and aft
positions of the canopy track) until they have done the initial fitting
of the canopy. Then you can use a steel ruler to project what the
extended line of the canopy will be for the rear skirts (it may be higher
than you might think).
I have seen nothing in the various how-to
>guides
>(Orndorff, Justice, Cone, et. al.) regarding this detail. Should the
>frame
>be about one plexiglas thickness below a forward extension of the
>turtle
>deck skins? Will this vertical position become obvious after the
>initial
>plexiglas fit?
At least more obvious than without it, its hard to visualize what the
projection of the canopy is.
>2. Is it important that the side rails be parallel with the main
>longerons,
>as viewed from the side?
Yes, if you want to have the side skirts fit well.
Unless I shorten the rear canopy bows, the
>side
>rails are going to have to be lower at the aft end than at the front.
>
>Thanks much in advance.
>
>Alex Peterson
>6A
>Maple Grove MN
>
>
A little additional info... I recommend to builders that they do nothing
to lock in the positions of the frame (drill the front roller brackets,
final drill the rear track, etc) until after they have at least done the
initial fitting of the canopy to check the fit to the frame and roll bar
intersection, and see how it projects into the turtle deck area.
Make some spacers that you can stack on the roller brackets to change the
frame hight, and only drill a couple holes in the slide rail so that you
can adjust things around once you start fitting the canopy, and start
looking at how the skirts will fit. This will give the opportunity to
change things until you are sure you have everything in the Ideal
positions to start fitting the skirts. Then you can drill and lock
everything into position.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joseph.wiza(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
I had the same problem. In my case I made friends with a good finish man,
dings are gone,
Joe/fuselage
----------
> From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dings in the Skins
> Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 2:22 PM
>
>
> If you do be sure they understand that this is an airplane that uses
> monocoque (sp??) construction. The skin bears most of the load.
>
> My feeling is that if the dent is from riveting that it can't be that
big.
> As someone said earlier, wait until after you've built more of the plane.
If
> it still is too big and too obvious then you might consider using
> micro-balloon filler (Ultra-fill, maybe).
>
> Really, paint covers lots of dings and you will be the only one to notice
> any more than 10% of them.
>
>
>
>
> >
> >It might be worth it to take the wing or part to a local "dent doctor"
car
> >repair shop. I hear that "painless dent removal" is preferable to
filling and
> >sanding on critical aluminum parts.
> > RV4- need to order fusealage Cree Fetterman
> >
> John Ammeter
> ammeterj(at)seanet.com
> Seattle WA USA
> 1974 1/2 JH-5
> RV-6 N16JA
> First flight August 1990
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Wing Tip Ribs: |
Maybe I don't see the problem. Back when I built N16JA, an RV-6, we didn't
have Tip Rib Drill Templates. I spaced the rivet holes evenly and in the
middle of the rib flanges drilling them with a 1/16" drill bit. Then, by
back-drilling with the same bit, was able to have a 'pilot' hole. Then,
drill out to the #41 size.
You may have to buy, beg or borrow a 90 degree drill to do this. Where are
you located? (this, BTW, is a not-so-subtle request for everyone to include
their location in their signature)
>
>I have reached the point of Rib Prep - I have them fluted, thank god all the
>notches are pre cut from Vans, I was looking to make a Tip Rib Drill Template,
>but seem to be missing the spacing for this. Or I can't see the forest
>through the trees.
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>Bill
>KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
>Main spar in the Jig.
>
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator mounting |
Royce Craven wrote:
> What pipe fittings did you use to go through the firewall and into the
> gascolator?
Hello Royce;
I used a Parker steel bulkhead fitting thru the firewall, available from
your friendly Parker dealer. I did not want to use aluminum there.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
Listers,
I am at the point of building the 605 bulkhead in my 6A and need to make
the decision of what type of canopy my plane will have. I have always
thought that the slider was the way to go but have found myself lately
going back and forth between it and the tip-up.
What type of canopy are you guys and gals building or flying?
Are you happy with the canopy type you chose?
What are the pros and cons of both types?
Thanks in advance, this has really proving to be a tough decision to
make.
Gary Zilik
Assembling F-605 Bulkhead
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343 <JDaniel343(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Spar Flange Strips |
I would like to know if it is worth it to taper the spar flange strips.
Does it save very much weight? Are they stronger if they are left alone and
not tapered?
Thanks for any replies.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST Elevator Control Horn |
I see no problem using cherry max and I think there even stronger than 470's.
Just make sure there not pop rivets.
Carey Mills
rear spars to fuse...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Voltage Regulator |
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
> You should not adjust the regulator with the engine running for
> chance that you could raise the voltage too high and damage something,
> but you do have to check it with it running and everything powered up
> otherwise the alternator and regulator aren't functioning.
> Also I don't thing 13.8 Volts is the proper value, but that
> depends on what battery you are using.
> At Van's we set the reg. to provide a voltage of about 14.2 or
> 14.3 being measured at the bus by the instruments ( with the small amount
> of voltage drop between there and the battery that puts the battery
> voltage at 14.1 or 14.2 or so). I don't know if that is exactly the
> correct setting but we get good life from our RG batteries and it seems
> to work well through out the different temp. conditions that we encounter
> during the year.
> As for adjusting the reg. make very small changes at a time and
> then recheck the output. I am pretty sure that counter clockwise on the
> pot. lowers the voltage; and clockwise raises it, but after you make the
> first adjustment double check that it is going the correct way.
> Only turn it about 1/8 of a turn at a time to prevent over doing
> it and maybe damaging something.
> I believe what you are primarily adjusting is the charge voltage of the
> battery so the most precise way would be with a DVM on the battery
> terminals and set the reg for the battery charge voltage that you want,
> regardless of what your panel instrument says the buss voltage is.
> Hope this helps.
>
> Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
> These opinions and ideas are my own
> and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> of my employer.
>
I was told the non-ajustable regulator that I installed was set at
13.8 volts, my RMI was showing 14.5 volts. So I did what any good
builder would do, chock the wheels, tie the tail wheel down, jump
in fire it up and shove my head under the instrument panel with a
digital meter.
The meter showed 14.5, so the RMI monitor is right.
Now what do I do? A) replace the regulator B) just leave it and hope
for the best C) throw a tantrum fit D) drink heavily for 4-5 days
and pretend the whole thing never happend. Inquiring minds want to
know?
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6 Fusalage Jig |
Does any one have a RV-6/6A fuselage jig they are no longer in need of
near the Denver area. I have the means to pick up any type of jig within
a reasonable distance.
Reply off-list
zilik(at)bewellnet.com
Gary Zilik
F-605 Bulkhead
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine installation |
>After bolting the Van's new o-320 engine into the RV-6A, I was carefully
>following the instructions in the wonderfull :-( owners manual and couldn't
>understand what they were talking about until I realised that this 1973
>document covered dozens of different models/options.
>
>After removing the sparkplugs and letting the oil out and turning the engine
>as instructed, I tried to find a "oil strainer" . Is this the "oil suction
>screen" at the back(aft) of the sump?
Suction screen is in the sump and can be accessed through the large fitting
on the bottom of the sump. The "pressure screen" is on the back of the
engine between the magntoes.
>The Service Instruction (#1472) says to inspect the "induction riser". What
>is this? It has to be clean and dry before installing the "fuel servo".
What's >a"fuel servo"?
There are 4 "induction risers". They are the tubes from the sump to each
intake port. They need to be free of preservative oil before cranking the
engine. Remove the 2 bolts which hold the riser to the cylinder head, and
loosen the hose clamp at the end attached to the sump. Wiggle the riser
out of the rubber hose and wipe inside of the tube clean. The "fuel servo"
refers to fuel injection, but also applies to carburetors as well.
>If not oil free, clean the induction system in the sump. What is involved in
>this operation? "t may also be necessary to inspect, clean and reinstall
the >intake pipes." Don't tell me, these are the large tubes coming from
the sump, >right?
Yes, see above. The idea is quite simple, remove all the preservative oil
from the induction system before cranking. A rag with a length of safety
wire to pull it through each port would be sufficient.
>I guess a detailed diagram of the engine supplied would be an unreasonable
>inclusion for an $18,000 engine. There isn't one picture with a spin-on oil
>filter. Forget about the new starter. My engine has 2 Slick magnetos not
>even mentioned. My model should have Bendix units.
No comment.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris & Tammy Edwards <cte(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Flight Simulator-98 |
Would the person with FS-98 designed to be an RV built please send me a copy so
I can fly before getting mine built?
Please & Thanks
Chris Edwards
cte(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
Thought I would annouce the first flight of my hangar partner's, (Dwain
Harris) RV-6 yesterday morning. He loved it!!! (O-360 with Hartzell C/S, tip-
up canopy).
Hopefully my turn is soon..... mid Feb.? (RV-6A, O320, Sensenich F/P, tip-up)
ps: We are based at Whiteman Airport. (Just north of Los Angeles)
ead under the instrument panel with a
>digital meter.
>The meter showed 14.5, so the RMI monitor is right.
>Now what do I do? A) replace the regulator B) just leave it and hope
>for the best C) throw a tantrum fit D) drink heavily for 4-5 days
>and pretend the whole thing never happend. Inquiring minds want to
>know?
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
The range of 13.8V - 14.2V is the preferred range for correct charging of
most liquid acid batteries. If you have an RG battery then follow the
battery manufacturers instructions. Even "non-adjustable" regulators can
usually be adjusted. (Hey, its an "Experimental", right?) If you have a
quality DVM, you should be able to remove the lid from your regulator and
adjust the charging voltage. Some regulators are the old vibrator tyle and
look like a multi-pole relay inside, and some are all electronic, and will
have a circuit board inside. The electronic ones will have a small trim
potentiometer which is likely painted over to prevent it turning. With the
engine running at least 1200 RPM, turn the adjustment until the voltage is
within the desired range. Shut everything down and put a drop of paint
(fingernail paint from the S.O. works well) on the adjustable pot, and
re-install the lid. Do a run up and cycle the landing lights and other
large loads to be sure that voltage stays where you want it. If so, you're
done adjusting your "non adjustable" regulator. For the old mechanical
style, you will have to do a little bending of the contacts if it is the
kind without screws to adjust. The mechanical type are harder for the
uninitiated to properly set. Consider taking it to a Alternator/Starter
shop and letting them check/adjust/test it for you.
Option A) is too expensive unless the regulator is dead.
Option B) is potentially expensive in new batteries and avionics etc.
Option C) likely won't impress your regulator, but might make you feel better.
Option D) likely won't solve anything either.
Option E) is to adjust your "non-adjustable" regulator and learn a little
about your charging system in the process.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
I chose the tip-up because I liked the unobstructed foward visibility.
Walt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
>What type of canopy are you guys and gals building or flying?
>Are you happy with the canopy type you chose?
>What are the pros and cons of both types?
>Gary Zilik
Gary,
I've been asking myself the same question for my second RV-6. I have a
tilt up on my RV-6 and like it fine. I think it's cheaper, lighter, easier
to build, is easier to seal out cold air and has better visibility due to
lack of obstruction. Some of the panel instruments are accessible. The
only downside might be taxing with the canopy up in warm weather. However,
I have done this on many occasions and it's not much of a problem. (I do
have the lift struts on my installation.) I do have to look out the side
when taxiing and I pull the canopy down when making corners. Of course, on
the 6A, you should be able to see over the glare shield on a tip up
installation.
The only advantage of the slider (to me) is ventilation while taxiing. On
the other hand, if building a second RV-6, it might be an interesting change
of pace.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hr. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Boyd Craven Jr. wrote:
>
> Hello, I am testing the ability to reach you for a customer of ours who seems
to have trouble. Please respond when you get this.
>
> Boyd Craven, InterActiVision Online Services
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Hello, I am testing the ability to reach you for a customer of ours
> who seems to have trouble. Please respond when you get this.
>
> Boyd Craven, InterActiVision Online Services
Read you 5 square!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections |
to
ISPs]
lizjess(at)cdsnet.net wrote:
>
> Derek Reed wrote:
> >
> > --
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: FCC considers per minute charges for telephone connections
> to
> > ISPs
> > Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:15:57 -0500
> > From: Larry Kenney <lkenney(at)slip.net> (by way of John Cunliffe
> )
> > To: vhf(at)w6yx.stanford.edu
> >
> > Here's some news about some potentially expensive legislation being
> > considered by the FCC.
>
> If this request goes through there will be many of us who will not be
> able to belong to an internet system. What a shame this would be. I do
>
> not want this to happen. What else can I do?
>
Not a lot Liz, just hope that the FCC is not as intransigent as our
BOCC,who are supposed to listen to the people they work for but instead
do as they please.One wonders why these turkeys keep getting
re-elected,but in general the mass of the electorate couldn't care less
as long as they are not personally affected ,and then even if they are,
these individuals are are small minority of the whole.
DR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> I have always> thought that the slider was the way to go but have found
myself lately> going back and forth between it and the tip-up.
>
> What type of canopy are you guys and gals building or flying?
>
I am building the tip up canopy due to what I think will be better
visibility.
My question to every one is - Where do you find clearer
instructions on assembling the canopy frame for the tip up canopy? The
plans don't show the rivet pattern at the lower rear corners, only that
there are two bolts to hold on the latches. Do I make the frame as wide
as the fuselage longerons, or am I supposed to leave the thickness of
the skirt? Are the skirts supposed to over hang the fuselage sides or do
they butt up to the side skins just above the cockpit rails? If they
butt up to the rails, what seals the canopy?
Your help will be appreciated. Many thanks in advance.
Doug Murray
Southern Alberta, Canada
RV-6 making great progress but slowed down trying to decpher the plans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mills, Trevor R" <MillsTR(at)BP.COM> |
| Subject: | Internal corrosion protection |
As I have just ordered my RV8 empenage I have many choices to make.
One that I would like some help with is "Internal corrosion protection"
I have spoken to a few local flyers and found many option's.
NO.1 US paint Systems Alumiprep/Alodine/Primer
NO.2 Clean / Primer
The question? Is NO.1 an overkill and will NO.2 do the job.
(I have seen a lot of Cessna's that were shinny inside and also a lot of
20 to 30 year old gliders.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | RE Wing Spar Flange Strips |
"I would like to know if it is worth it to taper the spar flange
strips."
Yes, it allows more space for you to install the nut plates for the
fuel tank. There will be just a few that will be difficult to dimple.
And be sure to chamfer (cut at 45 deg) the ends of 3/4 by 3/4 angles
on the rear side of the spar to allow better access for riveting on
the main skins.
Richard Reynolds, hanging the flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
I'm going to go with the tip-up on my RV-6A. I looks marginally easier
and quicker to build and provides better access to the area of the
cockpit between the panel and the firewall. I don't like the way it
looks, though. For sharp looks the slider is the only way to go.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
(skinning the tail, fuselage in jig)
-----Original Message-----
I am at the point of building the 605 bulkhead in my 6A and need
to make
the decision of what type of canopy my plane will have.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST Elevator Control Horn |
Carey:
Thanks for the imput, that was the general opinion of everone I ran it by.
The CherryMax I use was the replacement for the 470 called for in the plan.
they were an expensive mistake @ over 1.00 each 25.00 for the two horns, and
thank od I was able to use a friends gun to shoot them in, but the procedure
was painless unless you count the money.
Thanks
Bill KB2DU@AOL
Spar in the Jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeffrey Davis" <jdavis1(at)ford.com> |
Cellular Frequently Asked Questions - From FCC Web Page
http://www.fcc.gov/wtb/cellular/cellfaq.html
9. Can I use my cellular phone in aircraft (to include hot air balloons, etc.)
Answer:
Section 22.925 of the Commission's rules, 47 CFR Part 22, provides that
cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard
airplanes, balloons or anyother type of aircraft must not be operated while
such aircraft are airborne (not touching the
ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board
that aircraft must be turned off. The
following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in
any aircraft:
"The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited
by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could
result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones
while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to
FAA regulations."
Clear to me..
--
Jeffrey S. Davis
Senior Research Engineer
Advance Vehicle Technology
Ford Motor Company
Phone (313)845-5224 Fax (313)845-4781
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | glueing interior panels |
<< >2) In the Becky Orndorf Interior video she cautions against gluing fabric
>over a painted interior surface because the 3M spray adhesive will not
>adhere well. Does anyone have any contrary experience with this?
>Thanks.
>Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument Panel
>Barrington, IL
I can talk about that. I used 3M spray adhesive to glue foam and vinyl
sides to the urathane painted interior of my RV. It worked great - - - - -
for about 4 to 6 months. Then the adhesive kind of lost it's tackiness.
The panels fell off one by one.
>>
I had the glue failure on my -4 also. I decided to try other means on the next
bird. Out of 4 different glues, construction adhesive is the only type that
survives today. I used a double-mouthful-of -bubblegum looking blob in several
spots on one panel, and it's working OK, whereas the others have gone on
vacation. MD 400 brand has a temp rating of around 250F- this should work even
in PHX!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darrell Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab spar |
>
>I am wondering if the trim tab spar, the areas that contact the skin, are
>suppose to be parallel to each other as they come from the factory or
should
>they be bent to conform to the airfoil shape?
>
They should be bent to conform to the airfoil shape AND the distance between
the skins. Apparently the spar, as supplied, is thicker than it needs to
be, or I squeezed the trailing edge radius too much. I neglected to fit
this carefully, and ended up with a slight bulge where the skins meet the
trim tab spar outboard of the trim tab cutout. Looking at other RV's at
flyins, this is a common problem that's easy to prevent, but hard to fix
gracefully.
Darrell Anderson
Great Falls, MT
-30 F @ 0530 this morning
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | 3/8 prop flange bushings |
I recently needed to replace the prop flange bushings. After several
inquiries, I decided NOT to do it. Instead, I had a prop extension made
that accepted 3/8 bolts. The manufacturer of the prop extension that Van
sells will make you an extension. The cost is a bit more than the one Van
offers, but less than the cost of a prop extension, new flange lugs and the
cost to have the lugs replaced in your flange.
The person to contact for the prop extension is Judy Saber. She's in
Florida. I'll send you her address. Her product is a work of art and she
knows her business. Also a very pleasant person to deal with. She also
has the best price on the prop flange bushings if you still want to go that
way ($19 each), and they're stainless.
robert.cabe(at)usaa.com
RV-6, cowling
---
"The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's
and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Elevator alignment |
I was one of those with twist in one of my elevators, and when they were
mounted, the outer tips did not line up. It flew fine but, drew
attention to the flaw. Saturday I dismantled the necessary parts, lined
up the tips with the horizontal stabilizer and redrilled the horns (at a
safe distance from the other holes). I put it back together and flew
it. I now have a little more nose down trim available and have picked
up about 3 mph, as best I can tell. I still need to raise the front of
the stabilizer a little as when cruising It still takes a little too
much nose down trim. The only problem I ran into was when I drilled the
holes farther back on the horn (they were in the very front of the horn,
I moved them to the very back, near to the flange but with edge
clearance for the bolt head and nut.) the rod end that threads into the
control tube needs to be longer. I have a little more than the diameter
of the bolt worth of threads screwed into the female part of the control
rod. What is the proper amount of threads considered to be safe? I am
just curious as I am going to replace it with a longer end to take care
of this problem and to put my sticks back where they were. Also, the
control tube end just does contact the horn at near full deflection. I
know you should have enough threads turned in where if one end goes all
the way in the other won't go all the way out. I am just curious about
the strength factor. Thanks alot. Michael. (It sure looks better with
the elvator tips lined up)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
Can the RV-8 be flown with the canopy slid open? I thought I saw a
picture somewhere. I am also looking for a picture of a black RV-4 that
I saw in a magazine a few months back. Is there a reason why there are
so few black aircraft out there? Heat build-up? Visibility? If anyone
could help, I'd appreciate it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim tab spar |
JDaniel343 wrote:
>
> I am wondering if the trim tab spar, the areas that contact the skin, are
> suppose to be parallel to each other as they come from the factory or should
> they be bent to conform to the airfoil shape?
Mine did not have parallel flanges, but they did not conform to the
airfoil either. The angle was just enough less so that the lower
flange/skin combo would fit into the sub-spar at full travel. If in
doubt, assemble the top side with the hinge and adjust with a hand
seamer to make it work. It took a light hand press (no seamer) to make
the tab clear the shop heads of the rivets in the elevator on mine.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Flange Strips |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
By all means, taper the flange strips. I weighed the material removed
once and believe that it was about 3 lb, might have been more, but
definitly worth while. Your spar ,if anything , will be stronger because
the stresses will be more evenly distributed along its length.
Bill, RV4 N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: glueing interior panels |
Just out of curiosity, would pro-seal work here? Maybe someone who is
working on there tanks can take some left over proseal and put some on a
piece of scrap and stick some interior fabric to it and see. Maybe the set
up time would be too long. Just a thought. Al
>
>
><< >2) In the Becky Orndorf Interior video she cautions against gluing fabric
> >over a painted interior surface because the 3M spray adhesive will not
> >adhere well. Does anyone have any contrary experience with this?
> >Thanks.
> >Dennis Persyk 6A Instrument Panel
> >Barrington, IL
>
> I can talk about that. I used 3M spray adhesive to glue foam and vinyl
> sides to the urathane painted interior of my RV. It worked great - - - - -
> for about 4 to 6 months. Then the adhesive kind of lost it's tackiness.
> The panels fell off one by one.
> >>
>I had the glue failure on my -4 also. I decided to try other means on the
next
>bird. Out of 4 different glues, construction adhesive is the only type that
>survives today. I used a double-mouthful-of -bubblegum looking blob in
several
>spots on one panel, and it's working OK, whereas the others have gone on
>vacation. MD 400 brand has a temp rating of around 250F- this should work
even
>in PHX!
>
>Check six!
>Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't Turn Back was, First Flight Anticipation |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
> All,
>
> Since I feel quite strongly about this issue and rather than force feed my
> editorial to all, and to save bandwidth, I stuck an essay on the subject on
> the web. You can find it at this address:
>
> http://www.petroblend.com/dougr/dnt-turn.htm
>
> If you don't respond to the: engine failure after takeoff without
> hesitation, "Lower the nose and Land straight ahead." Please read it. If
> you don't have web access and would like a copy e-mail me off the list and I
> will send it to you.
Doug, good article. You are right, the first thing to do in an engine
failure (any altitude) is set best glide. Trim for it, if you can. I
agree with both the stall/spin danger and tail-wind landing danger;
however it is sometimes a choice of evils, as you note in your article
(not in those words).
I think your essay is right on. I just hadn't gotten that sense from
your original posting. Thanks for clarifying.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Young <gyoung(at)bcm.tmc.edu> |
>
> Darrell Anderson
> Great Falls, MT
>
> -30 F @ 0530 this morning
This validates why it's worth the 100F+/95%RH summers down here.
Expected high today of 75, same as Sat. & Sun.
Greg Young
Houston, TX
RV-6 fuselage out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Don't Turn Back was, First Flight Anticipation |
mikel(at)dimensional.com wrote:
>
> Add me to the list. A turn back to the airport is a long, slow, tight
> turning dangerous maneuver. It is not 180 degrees but a 245 degree or so
> right (or left) turn followed by another turn to get back to center line.
> No thanks. I have many fields ALREADY picked out, depending on where I am
> in the pattern (one of which, by the way, is the airport). Want to know how
> much altitude the "turn back" takes? Go up and do it sometime. Yikes!
>
That's exactly the point in training. I even got to do a few no-power
landings at a dirt strip before I got my private license. It taught me
what I already knew; the plane still flies after the fan quits. As a
glider, a C-152 makes a good brick, but I know you can make a good
landing without power. Another trick: we'd go up and fly approaches
over a landmark at 3-5k AGL. Pick a 'runway altitude' and try not to
bust it. Try this for power-off approaches and you can safely see how
much altitude you lose in a turn. Just remember that your results will
vary with the density altitude.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Voltage Regulator |
I don't know diddly about this subject. I am not one to get excited over half
a volt. However I can throw a fact into the mix:
My voltage routinely drops about a half to three quarters volt after the batt
has charged for about ten to twenty minutes. I keep my batt charged pretty
good, since I fly at least twice a week :-))
I mention this since it seems to end up about where the average of the experts
opinion of where it should be.
I have an RG batt from Van's and a ford regulator from Landoll.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Adjusting Voltage Regulator |
>Can someone tell me how to properly adjust the V/R to achieve 13.8 volts
>out.
>--
>Chet Razer
>razer(at)midwest.net
>http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
Chet,
I went through the exact same thing with my adjustable voltage reg from
Vans. Initially it read about 15v. There is a pot on the underside of the
v.r. To achieve 13.8v, I had to turn the pot about 1/2 turn
counterclockwise. A good investment is a crowbar o.v. module from Bob
Knuckols (sp?). Also, after adjusting the v.r., it is a good idea to hook
up an accurate voltmeter to the bus and leave all avionics off while running
the engine and verifying the voltage.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Black Airplanes |
Black is a very difficult color to see in the air. It is extremely difficult
to figure out what attitude or direction a black plane is flying (turning
toward or away from you). This is just one of the many reasons why stealth
aircraft are painted black.
However, I have seen a totally black RV-4. Looked good in the South East
Texas skies (where it is real hot)!
Bob Busick
<< Is there a reason why there are
so few black aircraft out there? Heat build-up? Visibility? If anyone
could help, I'd appreciate it. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
I have never met or heard of a single RV builder that wished he had built the
other canopy. They may be out there, but they do not admit it!
Bob Busick
<< What type of canopy are you guys and gals building or flying?
Are you happy with the canopy type you chose?
What are the pros and cons of both types?
Thanks in advance, this has really proving to be a tough decision to
make.
Gary Zilik
Assembling F-605 Bulkhead
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bum flyer <Bumflyer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
In a message dated 1/11/98 11:22:35 PM, you wrote:
>I have a
>tilt up on my RV-6 and like it fine. I think it's cheaper, lighter, easier
>to build, is easier to seal out cold air and has better visibility due to
>lack of obstruction. Some of the panel instruments are accessible. The
>only downside might be taxing with the canopy up in warm weather
This is an excellent summary . I have also heard the slider has more drag,
however have not personally seen evidence of this. Using the same analysis
I chose a slider and am very happy with it. It may well be harder to
build/fit but for a first time builder it is not a significant factor. All
users I have talked to with sliders are happy with it, just as I am. I still
consider the tip up to be a great design and always recommend it to people who
haven't come up with a strong preference. If you do prefer the slider then
don't rule it out because of the difficulty of fitting. Oh yeh I did discover
the baggage area is easier to load with a slider (by a very small amount.)
The thing is both of these canopies are marvelous and much better than the
competition out there in my opinion. This debate will rage forever, as will
the electric flap debate.
D Walsh RV-6A slider
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Spar Flange Strips |
> I would like to know if it is worth it to taper the spar flange strips.
> Does it save very much weight? Are they stronger if they are left alone and
> not tapered?
One poster talked about access for riveting, etc. This is not the only
reason Van suggests you taper the spar flange strips.
You will note that you have 5 strips at the wing root, but they gradually
taper to none about 3 feet from the tips. At least part of the reason
for this (I'm not an Aero-Eng, so I don't know how *big* a part) is for
structural reasons. That is, you want the wing to be stiffer at the root.
If they all stopped all at the same place, this would be a stress point. If
you pull a high-G maneuver, this is where the wing would be most likely to
fail.
Tapering the flanges increases this slowly-less-stiff aspect, making for
a more reliable airframe.
You have already seen other places where Van has done this. For instance,
the stiffener for the VS spar does the same thing.
The question "are they stronger if left alone" -- well, of course, they
are. But what may seem intuitive to be good would actually be a design
flaw.
For all it's worth, Van has been tapering these for you for nearly two
years. Mine came pre-tapered. I just had to cut 45-degree angles off
the thin one (the long one). I then rounded the cuts a bit more to
further avoid stress points. But I didn't realize this until the night
before I was going to a friend's father-in-law's to make use of his
overhead mill to taper 'em real nice.
Van doesn't add work to his planes for nothing. If you add all the
lightening holes, taper flanges, etc all together, I bet you still only
get maybe 5 to 10 pounds of material (at most). There are other, more
subtle reasons other than just gross weight for these things.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MStu32 <MStu32(at)aol.com> |
ok
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding or Tip-up Canopy on 6A? |
>I am at the point of building the 605 bulkhead in my 6A and need to make
>What are the pros and cons of both types?
GARY:
I am at the same decision point. Your post forced me to dot down my pros/cons.
PRO TIP-UP PRO SLIDER
-visibility -ventilation
@ taxi
-visibility -better
looks @ taxi/ground
-visibility -must
feel/look cool to hang the left arm
-easier installation out while
taxiing (like convirtable @low
-easier?/better? sealing speed
-better access to insstruments/ -appealing resale item??
radios - better
rain protection ofinstrument panel
-easier access to baggage comp't
Specific questions to LIST:
Which construction has a better rollover protection?
Any two-time builders who changed from one to the other type of canopy?
Thanks in advance.
Safe and happy landings -ALWAYS! Lothar
Denver, CO |insulating new PILOTSHED ~carriagehouse)||Ready to jig||
loocking for fuselage 6/6A||
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | elevator pushrods |
I was installing the elevator pushrods yesterday and ran into some problems.
First, maximum up elevator travel is limited by the forward pushrod
bearing, which contacts the inside of the clevis on the control stick
assembly before the clevis is within 1/8 inch of the F604 as Van's
specifies. In my case, the bearing hits the clevis when it is still almost
1/2 inch from the F604.
Second, down elevator travel is limited by the cutout in the F605.
However, enlarging the cutout will not solve the problem because the
pushrod is already very close to scraping on the underside of the floor.
In fact, even if I somehow fix the problem with the bearing/clevis
interference it looks like the pushrod will contact the underside of the
floor with very little additional movement.
I read in the archives about someone with a similar problem who filed the
clevis and bent the pushrod for clearance. Has anyone else encountered
this problem, and if so, what do you recommend?
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)hfsmobility.com |
| Subject: | RV-LIST Elevator Control Ho |
Negatory on the cherry max, this isn't as big a mistake as you might think.
I would just drill out the bottom side enough to get a bucking bar in there
and put in the correct AN rivets. Once you get started it won't seem like a
big deal. I would pad the top skin with something so you don't ding it with
the bucking bar.
Eric Henson
Dana Point, CA
Back riveting top skins - THANKS ROB ACKER!!!!!
>>>Would it be acceptable to use Cherrymax or other type of pop rivet?
Do any other ideas pop into your minds beside drilling out the skin
rivets?<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Dings in the Skins |
>
>Finished the HS, Finished the VS. Got a couple of dings in the skins from
>new guy riveting. What is acceptable ....
Hello,
I have a couple of 'dings',actually smiles, well ok, annoying grins in my
HS. I will move on, finish the airplane and then take stock of what I need
to do. By then it will be a repair to a nearly finished airplane rather
than the depressing feeling that I am starting all over again.
I would recommend you stand up the piece that is dinged so you can see it,
and then move back 10 feet. Look at it again. Now imagine it with paint.
I am on the rudder and the 'dings' seem to be diminishing... somewhat.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barnes, Eric" <eric.barnes(at)tandem.com> |
| Subject: | RV-LIST Elevator Control Horn |
I did this with the rudder brace - those 3 rivets in the rib. It wasn't
difficult - the holes are a little bigger already from the dimpling, so
I drilled the heads, popped them off, drilled the centers with a smaller
bit than the #41, and knocked out the shanks. I had already bent one
leading edge though, and of course, it was this side that I drilled the
rivets out, and so had trouble bending the skin back to get the squeezer
in. Something to consider.
Hope this helps.
EB #80131 Trim tab (lots of head scratching trying to avoid pop
rivets. Gave up.)
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank van der Hulst [SMTP:frankv(at)pec.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 04:08
To: RV list
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-LIST Elevator Control Horn
>
> I did a real dumb thing the other night, I riveted the skin
onto my left
> elevator. I did a great job of riveting but proceeded to soon
by not first
> riveting on the control horn.
Not as dumb as what I did... rivetted the *Left* horn onto my
Right
elevator :-(
> Would it be acceptable to use Cherrymax or other type of pop
rivet?
I don't think a pop rivet would be strong enough. Could be
wrong, I
guess.
> Do any other ideas pop into your minds beside drilling out the
skin rivets?
You wouldn't need to drill out too many rivets... maybe a dozen
or
twenty. Just enough to get your hand and bucking bar in the
inboard
area. Even so, whether this is feasible depends on how good you
January 05, 1998 - January 12, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ea