RV-Archive.digest.vol-ed
January 27, 1998 - February 02, 1998
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | F-676 and F-677 overhang |
Hello Listers,
I have my fuselage upside down in the jig and I am drilling the F-676
and F-677 skins to the floor ribs. The plans and manual tell me that I
need to overlap the skins two inches to the side of the centerline by
of an inch and allow the excess to hang over the right and left sides of
the fuselage to become (someday) the bottom fairings for the wigs.
My only questions (at this moment) are (1) what is the dimension for the
skins to stick out to the right and left of the fuselage; (2) if you
know the answer to number 1, where did you find it on the plans; and (3)
should I trim the skins aft of the bracket where the rear spar attaches,
or should I leave another inch or two of skin aft of the attachment just
in case?
Steve Soule
-17 this morning, shop COLD
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A - General Engine Questions |
Please disregard my comment regarding number of rows of tubes! My brain
must have been out to lunch when I wrote this. The bolts on a
Stewart-Warner type cooler that I have are AN3-41, so I think the length
depends on the installation.
>The oil cooler mounting bolt length will vary depending on the number of
>rows of tubes and type of cooler.
>Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>>
>>A few firewall forward questions
>>What is the size of the bolts for mounting the oil cooler (Vans)? Tony B's
>>engine book says AN3-42, but my measurements show 4-37 with allowing for
>1/8 stiffening angle.
>>Royce (not even close to finishing) Craven
>>Melbourne Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | F668 sub panel for RV-6A |
Listers,
I'm currently working on the F668 sub-panel and have another
question.
My panel seems to be about .2" taller than plan. That throws off the
dimensions at the sides for the longeron cutout. The plans called for
7 5/8" from longerons to the top of the panel. Is that what you used
instead of the side measurements to get the height needed? If I use
the measurements on the sides of DWG 35, mine will be almost 1/4"
taller than plan. Right now, I'm leaning toward disregarding the side
dimensions and sticking with the height dimensions so that I can
keep the front of the canopy lower.
One thing I didn't like about the F668 is the shape the parts are in. I
had two pretzels to deal with. Nasty looking. I hope they pull out
some as I add pieces and parts.
BTW, I appreciate the answers I got the other day concerning the
height of the panel in reference to the F668. I will be lowering mine
to 3/8" below the sub-panel line for clearances. Besides, I'm short
and need all the help I can get to see out! :-)
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
| Subject: | Quick Question on HS ... |
> > I spent the first 6 weeks of my empennage kit sanding out tooling
> marks on the
> > HS stiffeners with 400 grit sandpaper. Now, nearly two years later,
> I'm
> > finishing up the empennage regretting any time at all I spent
> sanding.
>
> > ROUND OFF THE SHARP CORNERS, DEBURR THE SHARP EDGES AND HOLES AND
> MOVE ON.
>
> > them with primer. Stop the sanding madness!!
>
> I totally disagree, but you should be working smarter, not harder.
> Remove all tooling marks until smooth. Use a scotchbrite wheel
> instead of sandpaper. I think the HS stiffeners took a whopping
> five minutes on the wheel to get it silky smooth.
>
>
> Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
> RV-6AQME working on the sliding canopy...
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
<< Please help me to understand how two electric pumps that are gone
due to electrical failure (I suspect complete electrical failure occurs
more often than mechanical pump blockage), provide something that can be
termed "good" redundancy.>>
Well short of a full electrical failure, the failure of one pump will not
effect the operation of the other. In the event of a full electrical failure
you are SOL.
<>
Perhaps you might want to put the EI AND the second electric fuel pump on an
emergency back-up (motorcycle) battery. The back-up battery could be charged
from the main bus. The EI and the back-up fuel pump could operate off the main
bus and in the event of a main bus failure you could switch to the back-up
bus. I'm sure you would get about 1/2 an hour from such a system. You would
have to look at the power draw of the EI and the pump vs. the output of the
battery to determine how long it would really last.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lighting question |
<< has anyone got the Vans red LED swivel light mounted in their plane and in
use?>>
I mounted mine (2 of 'em) where F604 and the top longeron come together. This
allows me to use the light as a map light or backup instrument flood light.
They are very bright so be sure to put them on a dedicated pot.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sub-panel instrument holes |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
Listers,
This is probably obvious to those of you who live in towns where you can
actually look at RVs. I cannot.
I will have eight items in my instument panel that are longer than 6
inches. Two radios and 6 instruments. I am trying to decide if it is
better to cut large holes in the subpanel that can accommodate several
items each or if one should try to cut a small hole that fits each long
item. The small holes would seem to make support a little simpler in the
rear. If I use large holes it seems like there will not be much
structure left to the subpanel.
Opinions?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Tip-Up Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: F668 sub panel for RV-6A |
22>
<1.5.4.32.19980127141902.00837a14(at)ozemail.com.au>
<1.5.4.32.19980127141902.00837a14(at)ozemail.com.au>
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm currently working on the F668 sub-panel and have another
>question.
>
>My panel seems to be about .2" taller than plan. That throws off the
>dimensions at the sides for the longeron cutout. The plans called for
>7 5/8" from longerons to the top of the panel. Is that what you used
>instead of the side measurements to get the height needed? If I use
>the measurements on the sides of DWG 35, mine will be almost 1/4"
>taller than plan. Right now, I'm leaning toward disregarding the side
>dimensions and sticking with the height dimensions so that I can
>keep the front of the canopy lower.
I'm not with my plans at the moment but the instrument panels are pretty
accurately cut. There is a slope in the panel, is it possible that you are
confusing the vertical height of the panel with the slope height?
>One thing I didn't like about the F668 is the shape the parts are in. I
>had two pretzels to deal with. Nasty looking. I hope they pull out
>some as I add pieces and parts.
Lots of structure gets added, but with some pulling and bending you can get
them pretty flat.
Leo Davies 6A firewall stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
> From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
> Well short of a full electrical failure, the failure of one pump will not
> effect the operation of the other. In the event of a full electrical
failure
> you are SOL.
> Perhaps you might want to put the EI AND the second electric fuel pump on
an
> emergency back-up (motorcycle) battery. The back-up battery could be
charged
> from the main bus.
Gary,
Thanks for the reply. I can see we are in agreement on the failure
mode...but we differ on our own standards on what constitutes "good
redundancy".
The EI and dual fuel pump setup you described is exactly what I
envisioned. Since I've only flown high-wings before, I have no knowledge
of low wing fuel systems except what's in the RV plans. Are the pumps
Van's provides rated for continuos duty, can they be used for this
application? If not, what type to use and any cautions to using a dual
electric fuel pump system? Listers?
Rob (RV-6Q)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
----------
> I know of one RV-6 builder who is flying with a Chevy engine that does
not have a mechanical fuel pump. He uses two electric fuel pumps and he
has a back up battery wired into his system.
Bob
RV-6 Cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-676 and F-677 overhang |
----------
From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: F-676 and F-677 overhang
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 12:37 PM
Hello Listers,
and (3) should I trim the skins aft of the bracket where the rear spar
attaches,
or should I leave another inch or two of skin aft of the attachment just
in case?
Steve Soule
-17 this morning, shop COLD
Huntington, Vermont
I can sure answer #3. Most certainly leave some behind the rear wing
attach fitting. I did not and now have an ugly hole to fill.
Bob
RV-6 Cowling
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
Rob,
This sounds like a reasonable approach to me as long as you have some kind
of annunciator or other positive, easily identifiable indication that the
primary is gone and you are now on back-up. Ive read at least one account of
a pilot who had a primary system failure, and his back-up battery took up
the slack. Unfortunately he remained blissfully unaware of the failure until
the back-up died. This occurred in a Subaru powered airplane with EFI and EI.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (fuse on order)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
I've been
>toying with the idea of a backup battery for the E.I....how about using two
>electric pumps, each on a different circuit for redundancy? I don't want
>to put that nasty bump on my cowl .
>
>Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt Brian J. Mork, 333-6044" <MorkBJ.DFC.USAFA(at)usafa.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery-Start Questions |
>I think cranking voltage is a better indicator of battery condition than
>open circuit voltage. You can have decent open circuit voltage on a
very
Absolutely correct. As another poster discussed, a significant
voltage drop can develop across the wire to the
starter and starter solenoid. Run a separate wire pair (thin
is okay, since there will be negligible current draw) between
your battery terminals and your voltmeter to see what the
battery itself is doing.
Of course, operational installation may require different wire
arrangement,
but to test the battery, don't measure downstream of large current
wires.
---
"Standard disclaimer applies" - PGP key available via my web page.
Brian J. Mork, 4504-C W. Juniper, USAFA, CO 80840
Mork@USA.Net, or http://www.pcisys.net/~mork/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Message to List Contained MIME... |
>
>> Sorry to bother you all.
>> What's a complete RV-4 kit worth (un-assembled of course and doesn't
>> have all the holes pre-drilled).
Ok Andy I'll take a stab at this. A brandy new up to date RV4 kit is a
dinner shy of $11k.
In addition, you don't have to shell out the whole $11k at once. In
addition, any changes in the sub-kits will come along as you buy them etc.
In addition, you'll have a warranty on any missing or damaged parts. In
addition, you won't have to build your own wing spar ( I ballpark that the
pre-punched wing kit saves at least 100 hours of work, maybe more).
Ok, let's assume that this kit is close by and won't cost you a fortune to
ship. Let's assume that there's no damage and no rusty steel parts to
throw away and let's assume that the existing owner has not hacked up any
sub-assemblies that you will throw away.
I say $7grand MAX! Good luck with your decision and let us know when you
have joined us "officially".
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Macintire" <dave_mac(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated. This is supposed to be
the last and most difficult portion of the empennage construction. I
have a cutoff wheel that I have used extensively with an air die grinder
for trimming the HS and VS with good success. I also have the set of
three metal snips one can purchase from HF Tools with which I am almost
ready to throw in the trash can. Are other, more expensive snips any
better? Other comments? Thanks.
Dave Macintire
Orlando, FL
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge cracks |
----------
> Subject: RV-List: Hinge cracks
> I am posting this for a friend who has a problem with his hinges at the
> propeller surround area of his cowl. The last time he replaced these
> pieces of hinge (they are about 60mm long) he used extruded hinge and
they
> still cracked on the out side of the round section.
> He would appreciate any ideas.
Les,
I've had my RV for going on six years and the first time the extruded
hinges
around the nose broke I replaced them with stainless hinges. The next time
the
stainless hinges cut through the rivets and I ended up using screws to fix
it once
and for all.
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
For any who are interested; a local Velocity builder recently had a forced
landing (still early in his test program) in his Chevy V6 powered aircraft
shortly after takeoff. The airplane lost its landing gear when he touched
down in a muddy field. Damage limited to the gear, prop, and superficial
cosmetic damage to the fuse.
Pilot reported a loud backfire, followed by a loss of power at about 300'.
After landing, discovered a carb fire. No further details as of yet. If I
hear any more will pass it on.
The owner has decided to build an aluminum block/head V6 to replace this
engine while he is fixing the damage to the airframe. The airplane has had
to carry a large amount of nose weight for cg reasons and has been flying at
>100 pounds heavier than a Lyc. powered Velocity.
Mike Wills
RV-4(fuse on order)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>Would be interested in hearing from any builders that are considering and/or
>using auto engine conversions. Especially Chevy Vortec. Thanks.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
> From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
> Unfortunately he remained blissfully unaware of the failure until
> the back-up died. This occurred in a Subaru powered airplane with EFI and
EI.
Yikes. Agree on the failed system warnings.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | WI builder group |
Count me in on a proposed WI builder's group. I'm located in Peshtigo,
45mi NE of Green Bay (I *still* love my Packers....sniff!) and sometimes
feel like I'm The Lone Riveter. Let me know what I can do to help out
if you need help.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV 6A HS hangin' on the wall, VS close behind
jorear(at)mari.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge cracks |
All the builders in Southern California (LA area) have done the same as
the SF builders. When I was in Oregon flying with Mike Seagar, he
recommended using 4130 steel. I know of one RV in SoCal that has steel.
I have 0.063 AL with 2 # 10 screws each side but would use 4130 next
time.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A - General Engine Questions |
>A few firewall forward questions
>Is the position for the oil temp the large flat bolt head underneath?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wndwlkr711 <Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com> |
RV-3 engine mount for sale-primered but never used. If interested, call
Dennis at 760-355-8341. $300.00 and he will pay shipping.
Anyone having any luck with capacative senders in the fuel tanks? I called
Van's but they don't recommend them.
George Stanley
Desert Center, CA
RV-6A Fuel Tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WI builder group |
robert dziewiontkoski wrote:
>
>
> Are there any Wisconsin RV builders that would be interested in forming a
> builders group or getting together to work on a plane or launch a WI RV
> newsletter?
>
YES YES and YES...I'm near LaCrosse...where are you???? Madison area I
presume?? I'm still setting up for an RV-4 and plan to get the tail
ordered by about April.
Scott Aeronca 11CC N4181E
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip-Up Canopy For Sale |
William G. Knight wrote:
>
>
> Have finished tip-up canopy and all parts for sale as I am changing
> recently-bought completed and flying RV-6 to slider. Package would include
> attached forward upper and rear upper fuselage skins and structure so buyer
> could simply install on his aircraft. Very fine craftsmanship. Please reply
> off-line.
>
WHY?
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery-Start Questions |
<< I have a relayed circuit (lifted from amateur radio operators who
put sensitive radio gear into their cars) that automatically
cuts out power to the avionics bus when power drops, and
then when you restart, a button press brings the avionics bus
back on line -- kind of like a "you can't accidently leave me
on for the next start" circuit. >>
This approach has too many single points of failure IMO. You can use it if
you want, but I believe it is less reliable than just leaving it all on. I
don't know if Bob Nuckolls agrees. Maybe he will comment for the good of the
body.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | F-676 and F-677 overhang |
I left an inch, do you think it will be enough?
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Cabe [SMTP:robert.cabe(at)usaa.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 4:54 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: F-676 and F-677 overhang
I can sure answer #3. Most certainly leave some behind the rear
wing
attach fitting. I did not and now have an ugly hole to fill.
Bob
RV-6 Cowling
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tool discounts?? |
<< We offer discounts on tool purchases made at one time as well. Discount
amount varies based on amount of purchase. Please visit our website or call
for more information:
http://www.browntool.com >>
Yes, we know already.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
<<
Would be interested in hearing from any builders that are considering and/or
using auto engine conversions. Especially Chevy Vortec. Thanks.
>>
Go check the archives for the past 12 months. There's a ton of discussion.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Hi,
I have some sheet metal snips I'll sell you. Wiss & DoIt brands. I will not
sell you my Prosnip - I only have the red one and it is so great it seems to be
all I need. To show appreciation I should buy the other Prosnips.
I alway thought Wiss was "THE" name in snips. Buy the best but how do you know
which is best? Charlie says get brand K, but what does he know - brand K is all
he has ever used. Expensive does not equal best. Advertising budget doesn't
either and ditto packaging.
So, which gas welding outfit is good?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>I also have the set of
> three metal snips one can purchase from HF Tools with which I am almost
> ready to throw in the trash can. Are other, more expensive snips any
> better? Other comments? Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
Hi,
Amazing. I've been flying since 1974 and I've never had an alternator failure
much less a total electrical failure. It can happen, of course, but not easily.
For example, I have an instrument that will tell me if my charging circuit has
gone west. The, I have a battery that will keep me going for longer than my
fuel will, I think?
A low voltage annunciator would be a nice addition, wouldn't it.
hal
>I've read at least one account of
> a pilot who had a primary system failure, and his back-up battery took up
> the slack. Unfortunately he remained blissfully unaware of the failure until
> the back-up died. This occurred in a Subaru powered airplane with EFI and EI.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
Check out our archive - there are some of us.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
> Would be interested in hearing from any builders that are considering and/or
> using auto engine conversions. Especially Chevy Vortec. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
>
>Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
>elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated. This is supposed to be
>the last and most difficult portion of the empennage construction. I
>have a cutoff wheel that I have used extensively with an air die grinder
>for trimming the HS and VS with good success. I also have the set of
>three metal snips one can purchase from HF Tools with which I am almost
>ready to throw in the trash can. Are other, more expensive snips any
>better? Other comments? Thanks.
>
>Dave Macintire
>Orlando, FL
>RV-6
>
If you must cut with snips, there's no beating a set of Wiss snips. Why do
you need to cut this from scratch? Are you a masochist? :-) Mine came all
cut out, pre-punched and partially bent. All you do is add water......
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Right Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170 <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
I am currently in the process of installing a "Vortec" in my RV-4.
The engine is assembled and I am building the mount now
If you would like further information E-mail me off list and I will fill in
the details
Regards
Merle Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WI builder group |
Jeff..
I have a cabin west of Pembine so I have reason to be in your area(live in
Milwaukee) maybe we'll get together sometime.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: jorear(at)mari.net <jorear(at)mari.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 9:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: WI builder group
>
>Count me in on a proposed WI builder's group. I'm located in Peshtigo,
>45mi NE of Green Bay (I *still* love my Packers....sniff!) and sometimes
>feel like I'm The Lone Riveter. Let me know what I can do to help out
>if you need help.
>
>Regards,
>Jeff Orear
>RV 6A HS hangin' on the wall, VS close behind
>jorear(at)mari.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jodyedwards(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lighting question |
>
>
><< has anyone got the Vans red LED swivel light mounted in their
>plane and in
>use?>>
>
>
>I mounted mine (2 of 'em) where F604 and the top longeron come
>together. This
>allows me to use the light as a map light or backup instrument flood
>light.
>They are very bright so be sure to put them on a dedicated pot.
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC - NJ
>
>I'm also installing Van's LED swivel lights under the cockpit rails and
I'm having a problem finding the proper resistor/pot combination to dim
these. Thanks for any help. Jody Edwards RV 4 Ft. Lauderdale, FL
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lighting question |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
... has anyone got the Vans red LED swivel light mounted in
their
plane and in use?
I tried one, and while it worked as a map light, it didn't throw a lot of
light on the panel. I ended up getting 4 of the swiveling eyeball lights
to mount under the glareshield and was AMAZED at how much light those
things put out. Putting 4 of them under the glareshield would be
overkill. So I ended up mounting one in each cockpit rail, each lighting
half of the panel. Even then I usually have them dimmed at about 50%
with a rheostat. They work well for panel and map lighting.
I also have the other two available if anyone is interested. $20/both
shipping included.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
>
>Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
>elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated. This is supposed to be
>the last and most difficult portion of the empennage construction.
Actually, cutting it out is easy - getting it to fit perfectly while
clecoed together, and then having it maintain that perfect fit AFTER you
have driven all the rivets; now that's another story.
>have a cutoff wheel that I have used extensively with an air die grinder
>for trimming the HS and VS with good success. I also have the set of
>three metal snips one can purchase from HF Tools with which I am almost
>ready to throw in the trash can. Are other, more expensive snips any
>better? Other comments? Thanks.
I use the snips I bought from Avery for almost all trimming and have no
complaints at all. However, they do tend to leave small marks which must
be filed away after you make the cut, but it's no big deal.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
bolting on the tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
I used a very sharp cardboard knife and a straight edge. Take a few passes
at each cut and change the blade if it gets dull. Took about 5 minutes to
cut the whole thing. The best thing is you dont end up with the distortion
you normally get when using snips.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: David L. Macintire <dave_mac(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 6:59 PM
Subject: RV-List: Elevator Trim Tab
>
>Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
>elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated. This is supposed to be
>the last and most difficult portion of the empennage construction. I
>have a cutoff wheel that I have used extensively with an air die grinder
>for trimming the HS and VS with good success. I also have the set of
>three metal snips one can purchase from HF Tools with which I am almost
>ready to throw in the trash can. Are other, more expensive snips any
>better? Other comments? Thanks.
>
>Dave Macintire
>Orlando, FL
>RV-6
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Pictures (fuselage) |
If anyone is interested, I just updated my web page and added some pictures
of my fuselage in the jig. (Comments welcome)
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Dave, I used a double shear cutter I believe might be called a duct shears.
The one I have is ancient, but I suppose they are available somewhere.
They work essentially the same way a nibbler works, with one "finger" below
the sheet and two opposing "fingers" above the sheet, with a 1/8" or so
kerf strip removed. They leave no distortion in the remaining material.
Alex Peterson
>Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
> elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated. Are other, more
expensive snips any
> better? Other comments? Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johnnie989 <Johnnie989(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimples or dimple tape |
The man's name for getting the dimple tape you inquired about is Anthony(Tony)
Occhipinti. His address is 1353 Lake Ave., Apt A. Metairie, LA His phone # is
(504) 831-1816. He is a very knowledgable man and very interisting to talk to.
I think He hold the patent for the dimple tape
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
| From: | robjhall(at)Juno.com (Robert J. Hall) |
>Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
>elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated...
>snip
Dave, I had good results using a sharp utility knife and steel straight
edge to score along the outline of the trim tab (about 10-12 passes). It
made a nice even cut with no distortion of the metal on either side of
the cut.
Bob Hall
RV-6
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Gibbons" <planenuts(at)theonramp.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Rudder Pedals? |
Both the RV-8 prototypes had rear seat rudder pedals. Van's said that
they were working on making them better for the kits. As far as I can
tell, there is no provision for rear seat rudder pedals in my fuselage
kit. What's up?
Bob Gibbons
#80067
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ferdfly <Ferdfly(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
<< <
<< DON"T do this... without gravity feed on your tanks, an electrical
failure
makes you a glider pilot unless you have the mechanical pump. >> >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F-676 and F-677 overhang |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Hello Listers,
>
>and (3) should I trim the skins aft of the bracket where the rear spar
>attaches,
>or should I leave another inch or two of skin aft of the attachment
>just
>in case?
>
>Steve Soule
>-17 this morning, shop COLD
>Huntington, Vermont
>
>
>I can sure answer #3. Most certainly leave some behind the rear wing
>attach fitting. I did not and now have an ugly hole to fill.
>
>Bob
>RV-6 Cowling
>
>
>
If you are building the fuse. then you probably have already built the
wings which makes it very simple.
The overhang from the fuse is meant to match up to the trailing edge of
the wing.
Figure out were the wing trailing edge will be in relation to the rear
spar attach point and then trim it accordingly.
The skins should already be trimmed to width so that if you do the
overlap correctly at the seat rib you should have the correct amount of
overhang.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
ll eventually. Do your best
when installing the cowl that when you put the cowl pieces in position.
They just set into place and don't have to be held there to get the pins
or screws started.
The cowl longevity also seems to be connected to how smoothly the engine
prop. combination runs. Vibration is hard on all parts of the airplane.
If yours doesn't seem as smooth as someone else's, check it out and find
out why. In the long run it will pay off.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Unreachable Site Problem Resolved! |
Hello Listers!
Just a quick note to let everyone know that the problem I've been having
with a few unreachable sites (home.com, dallas.net, dtc.net & others) has
finally been resolved! These sites should now be receiving email from the
matronics.com domain with no problem. The problem had/has to do with the
IP subnet address that was assigned to my network by my ISP. In
non-technical terms, there are certain IP address ranges that are
generally consider not usable because they exhibit "undetermined" results
under certain circumstances. Well, guess what range my ISP assigned to
my network??? Yup, one of the bogus ones!
Anyway, everyone should finally be receiving their List mail again! I will
be obtaining a new subnet from my ISP in the next few days. This will
also involve updating all of my Domain Name and MX records, which means there
will likely be a few days for a few of you in which the matronics.com
domain may not respond, i.e. you may not be able to post messages (altough
you will likely continue to receive email from the List). It takes
a fews days, sometimes as much as a week, for all of the Domain Name
Servers around the world to fully converge.
I will try to post a message to the List just before the subnet/DNS changes
take place.
Thanks for your patience!
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Lauritsen <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
| Subject: | Tool discounts?? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthew J. Shepardson [SMTP:MJShep(at)compuserve.com]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 11:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tool discounts??
Greetings: I'm still fairly new to the RV-List and was curious if anyone
has looked into the possibility of negotiating tool discounts with various
suppliers.
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool has discounts built into their tool kits.
You will also find the basic prices to be very competitive on the quality tools
you need to built the RVs.
Enjoy your project.
DJ Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 1st St.
Boone IA 50036
1-800-368-1822
online catalog www.cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Hottest Cylinder????? |
Hello out there.
Which is the hottest cylinder, and therefore desired cylinder for CHT, on
the O-360-A1A?
Thank you,
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, plumbing etc.
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Willemssen, Chris J." <chris.j.willemssen(at)loram.com> |
| Subject: | 1)Wheel pants and 2)Nose wheel main bar. |
I'm somewhat new to the list, and basically, somewhat new to the RV's. A
friend
has given me an excellent opportunity to join him in enjoying his pretty much
complete RV-6A. So I can't say I have the pride of self building our RV-6A,
but
I hope to gain pride through partial ownership and upkeep/improvements.
There's
always the near future for starting my own homebuilt aircraft.
2 questions:
1) Concerning the wheel pants--has anyone had trouble with them filling up
with
slush/snow? Last two times we've taken the RV out, it's been snowy/slushy (can
you say Minnesota?). As we were taxiing back to the hangar last flight, we
noticed some scary scraping/grinding noise. Finally, we figured out that the
pants (all three of them) were full of what was now ice, and that was rubbing
on
the tires.
________________________________________________________________________________
for the winter, or the other cutting out the bottom of the wheel pants to allow
for greater clearance between it and the wheel. I'm not convinced cutting is
the way to go, as it will most likely fill up anyway (small icebergs hanging
from automobile fender wells come to mind, even though there is up to 6" of
clearance there).
Any suggestions?
2) On the nose wheel bar, there is a rounded piece attached to the trailing
edge of the bar, giving it a more streamlined appearance/function. This piece
is a wooden pattern which is fiberglassed into place. The problem is that as
the bar flexxes, the fiberglass does not, thus causing the piece to separate
from the main bar.
Suffering from severe ignorance, I'm not sure if this trailing edge piece is
even a standard RV part. And if it is, I would guess this has got to be an
extremely common problem, as fiberglass does not possess the elasticity that
steel does. I would welcome input concerning this issue.
Hoping to gain respect as time goes on-
Chris Willemssen (chris.j.willemssen(at)loram.com)
--RV-6A with 16 hours on it, 24 to go before the FAA disappears (sort of).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Here is how I did it:
Lay it out with a Sharpie. Drill holes to locate the corners of the trim tab.
Using a thin wheel (0.040") on a right angle die grinder, cut it out. This
did such a nice job, it required very little edge cleanup.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Australian Vans workshop |
Aussie listers and lurkers,
It's a first!
Van's College Oz is a workshop being organised by current builders of
Van's kit aircraft. The event is scheduled as an opportunity for new
builders and potential builders of Van's aircraft kits to gain
'hands-on' experience working with aircraft materials and tools.
Twenty participants will be guided by five experienced builders and a
representative of Van's Aircraft Inc., USA. The workshop venue has
been made available by Knockfin Holdings and Luskintyre Aviation
Enterprises at no expense to us. These facilities, located near
Lochinvar, NSW, include accommodation/dining areas and a CASA-approved
engineering workshop. Meals will be included and participants may
elect accommodation in-house or elsewhere. Participants will be asked
to provide their own small hand tools and safety equipment (safety
glasses, hearing protectors, dust masks, etc.). Instruction and
supervision on the safe use of pneumatic hand drills, rivet guns,
other specialised hand tools, linnisher and drill press will be
provided.
Cost is estimated not to exceed $350, and is not - for - profit. This
includes meals and real estate for your sleeping bag.
Time is likely to be 13,14 June. Nice and frosty in the Hunter Valley.
First in, best dressed, so reserve a place by emailing me offline.
Peter Bennett
pbennett(at)zip.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
I used regular snips to cut the elevator skin. I followed the plans for
bending and riveting the trim tab. I did not like the results so
ordered a second trim tab skin and made another one. Everything seems
fine, no work of art, but seems like it will do the job.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont.
-----Original Message-----
Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the
left
elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lighting question |
Ed,
I would like to buy the other two if I am first to respond. E-mail me your
address and I'll send you a check. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
>
> ... has anyone got the Vans red LED swivel light mounted in
>their
>plane and in use?
>
>
>
>I tried one, and while it worked as a map light, it didn't throw a lot of
>light on the panel. I ended up getting 4 of the swiveling eyeball lights
>to mount under the glareshield and was AMAZED at how much light those
>things put out. Putting 4 of them under the glareshield would be
>overkill. So I ended up mounting one in each cockpit rail, each lighting
>half of the panel. Even then I usually have them dimmed at about 50%
>with a rheostat. They work well for panel and map lighting.
>
>
>
>I also have the other two available if anyone is interested. $20/both
>shipping included.
>
>
>Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
>ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Are other, more expensive snips any
> better? Other comments? Thanks.
>
> Dave Macintire
Dave: Try ProSnip snips, they are sold by Walmart, Are made by Vice
Grip. I have had very good luck with these, even better tht Wiss.
Tailwinds ---Carroll RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump failure |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
> Reading the electric/mech. fuel pump discussion about a clogged engine
> driven fuel pump and the electrical not being able to feed I was wondering
> if there are systems with a bypass so the electric pump could supply
> regardless of the condition of the engine pump?
The Duchess I flew for my ME training had electric boost pumps to the
engines. They were plumbed in parallel to the mechanical pump and had a
check valve to prevent the mechanical pump from returning fuel through
the electrical pumps should the latter fail. I was told that the
electrical pumps would not push fuel back through the mechanical pump as
it was essentially a one-way design.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick E. Kelley" <webmstr(at)kalitta.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
David L. Macintire wrote:
>
> Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
> elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated. This is supposed to be
> the last and most difficult portion of the empennage construction. I
> have a cutoff wheel that I have used extensively with an air die grinder
> for trimming the HS and VS with good success. I also have the set of
> three metal snips one can purchase from HF Tools with which I am almost
> ready to throw in the trash can. Are other, more expensive snips any
> better? Other comments? Thanks.
I probably did it the least elegant way of all. After measuring and
making sure that there was sufficient material, I cut the tab material
away from the elevator with a nibbler! Yes, it made a 1/4" cut, but I
didn't trust shears to not curl the edges and I didn't have a cutoff
wheel. The other alternative would be a saw; can you imagine sawing
that floppy material? Once the elevator was built, I used posterboard
to fashion a template - I bent a piece around the trailing edge and then
trimmed until it fit in place. Once I was happy with the template, I
draped it over the tab material and traced around it. Guess what?
Plenty of material. I used shears this time because I could make sure
that only the scrap curled. I spent much more time agonizing over the
measurments and the cut-out than I did actually building the parts.
This is the only thing I envy about the pre-punched kits.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
<< Are the pumps Van's provides rated for continuos duty, can they be used for
this application? >>
I'm not sure if they are rated for continuos duty and I'm not sure that I'd
want one for continuos duty due to the noise they make. However, I would look
into an automotive alternative as they are rated for continuos duty and seem
to be quiet. I would use the auto pump as the main and the Faucet pump as the
back-up.
BTW I have an EI and have had a total loss of alternator output (due to a bad
breaker in the field circuit) when 100 miles from home. I shut down every
thing electrical including the EI and used the good 'ol mag for spark.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
re other things you may be
cooking too . . . like gascolators, alternators,
vacuum pumps, batteries, etc.
Thermocouples are easy to work with and instruments
to read them are under $100 . . . if there's enough
interest, we'll add the necessary instrument and
switch to our equipment rental list on the website.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert l. wadsworth" <110014.1237(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Lead times(COLD WEATHER) |
In reply to Down South Building,
I have built a few houses and workshops. I would suggest not using the
"vapor barrier" between insulation
and sheetrock. It will do just that, collect moisture. The moisture will
condesate on the plastic and do one
of two things (depending on which side of the plastic it collects). You
will experience either wet sheetrock or soaking insulation (this info. is
from a local commercial/residential insulation contractor).
If you are concerned with air leakage, then investigate blown insulation
for your walls. This material is basically ground up newspaper that is
treated for protection against rodents, bugs, etc. Installed correctly,
it will provide an airtight air chamber between exterior and interior. (I
have it in my house, works great.)
I am in the process of building my shop, 28 ft x 36 ft. (Wife wants part
of it.) I will insulate even though you may think 40 degrees is warm (live
outside of Atlanta, GA). Probable will not use A/C (may change my mind in
August, 95 degrees, 95% humidity).
Good luck,
Future RV6
Robert Wadsworth
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick Question on HS ... |
Jeff Carpenter, speaking of spar flange strips, wrote:
>ROUND OFF THE SHARP CORNERS, DEBURR THE SHARP EDGES AND HOLES AND MOVE ON.
>More of us would be flying our own birds by now if we weren't so damn anal.
I agree many builders smooth edges more than structurally necessary in low
stress areas but when it comes to spar flange strips Jeff's viewpoint
scares me; perhaps his older kit did not have tapered flange strips.
The flange strips on recent kits are tapered and have machining marks on
them as from a milling cutter and the machining also results in an
absolutely sharp edge. I believe the sharp edge and maching marks should be
removed for notch sensitivity/strength/fatigue reasons. Do the plans say
"finish as from 400 paper" for no reason?
I used coarser paper to start and worked toward 400. Used a vixen file
drawn at a 45/45 angle to strip and sandpaper to get radius; made radius
gage by drilling hole in sheetmetal and cutting it in half. OK... gage is
anal but proper surface on these structural components is not.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA
john.bright(at)bigfoot.com
H:757-886-1161, W:757-875-7324
RV-6/6A 25088, rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump failure |
>Reading the electric/mech. fuel pump discussion about a clogged engine
>driven fuel pump and the electrical not being able to feed I was wondering
>if there are systems with a bypass so the electric pump could supply
>regardless of the condition of the engine pump?
>
>Have a Great Day!
> denny-->> RV-6
> harje(at)proaxis.com
>
This is very easily done with a bypass line around the engine driven pump
and a check valve.
Take care,
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hottest Cylinder????? |
<< Which is the hottest cylinder, and therefore desired cylinder for CHT, on
the O-360-A1A? >>
I believe that under most conditions, #3 is the hottest. However, I am also
aware that, in normally aspirated a/c engines, the fuel distribution is rather
poor, particularly at partial throttle settings. This begs for a multipoint
CHT/EGT monitor to really see what's going on, primarily in the early phases
of flight testing for purposes of tuning the baffles (which may involve adding
small dams on the front of cyl#s 1 and 2).
Don't cheap out. That lyc cost a small fortune.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Since all are contributing comments on shears, thought I would put in my
$.02. I use good quality sewing scissors to cut/trim .016 sheet aluminum.
Easy to control, makes a good clean cut line, and leaves no grip marks on
the metal as snips do.
BTW, dont recommend you borrow the wife's scissors; buy your own.
Mike Wills
RV-4(fuse on order)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>Dave, I used a double shear cutter I believe might be called a duct shears.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt Brian J. Mork, 333-6044" <MorkBJ.DFC.USAFA(at)usafa.af.mil> |
| Subject: | re:Fuel Tank Probes |
Lister wrote:
>Anyone having any luck with capacative senders in the fuel tanks? I called
>Van's but they don't recommend them.
I have two KC-135 fuel tank probes. MIL SPEC
and all. Picked them up from a government
surplus lot sale. Never been used, and I'm
currently not building so I'd be game to
sell them for a fraction of any other option.
If interested, reply off-line to mork(at)usa.net.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Belany <jsbelany(at)win.bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WI builder group |
robert dziewiontkoski wrote:
>
>
> Are there any Wisconsin RV builders that would be interested in forming a
> builders group or getting together to work on a plane or launch a WI RV
> newsletter?
Count me in from the shores of Lake Superior! Hoping to start an rv-6
soon!
--
Flying is the second greatest
thing known to man.
Landing is the first!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
Hey Dave,
Put down the snips, go buy a dremel tool. It's money well spent. Don't
monkey around with cutting and bending those tabs. Make your cuts 90 degrees
to the tab spar. Make one straight cut then build little ribs with your
flanging tool that will pop rivet in. You will come out with a trim tab
perfectly matched to your elev. E-mail me privately if I can be of more
assistance.
Eric Henson
Top Skins
eric.henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Helpful advice on how to cut out the sheetmetal pattern from the left
elevator needed for the trim tab is appreciated. This is supposed to be
the last and most difficult portion of the empennage construction. I
have a cutoff wheel that I have used extensively with an air die grinder
for trimming the HS and VS with good success. I also have the set of
three metal snips one can purchase from HF Tools with which I am almost
ready to throw in the trash can. Are other, more expensive snips any
better? Other comments? Thanks.
Dave Macintire
Orlando, FL
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert l. wadsworth" <110014.1237(at)compuserve.com> |
Has anyone used/bought tools from Clinton Aircraft Tools in Atlanta, GA?
Wayne seems to have some very good pricing.
Future RV6
Robert Wadsworth
ted for continuos duty, can they be used
for
>this application? >>
>
>I'm not sure if they are rated for continuos duty and I'm not sure that I'd
>want one for continuos duty due to the noise they make. However, I would look
>into an automotive alternative as they are rated for continuos duty and seem
>to be quiet. I would use the auto pump as the main and the Faucet pump as
the
>back-up.
The Faucet pumps are pulsed electromagnetic pumps and decendants
of the old Bendix electrics that used actual "points" or contacts
to make/break the electro-magnet's power path to initiate each
stroke. Modern encarnations like the Faucet are all solid state
switching on timers as opposed to the use of points and are,
there for, quite suitable for continuous duty service.
Automotive, in-tank pumps are also continuous duty devices but
as I recall, they use motors with bearings, seals, etc. Being
centrifugal pumps, they require no valves while the Faucets
are reciprocating pistons and do require valves. In terms of
reliability we're trading brushes and bearings for reed or
ball valves . . . Hmmmm . . . about a toss up I think . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Cut-out for O-320-H2AD |
>
>
><< Are the pumps Van's provides rated for continuos duty, can they be used
for
>this application? >>
>
>I'm not sure if they are rated for continuos duty and I'm not sure that I'd
>want one for continuos duty due to the noise they make. However, I would look
>into an automotive alternative as they are rated for continuos duty and seem
>to be quiet. I would use the auto pump as the main and the Faucet pump as
the
>back-up.
The Faucet pumps are pulsed electromagnetic pumps and decendants
of the old Bendix electrics that used actual "points" or contacts
to make/break the electro-magnet's power path to initiate each
stroke. Modern encarnations like the Faucet are all solid state
switching on timers as opposed to the use of points and are,
there for, quite suitable for continuous duty service.
Automotive, in-tank pumps are also continuous duty devices but
as I recall, they use motors with bearings, seals, etc. Being
centrifugal pumps, they require no valves while the Faucets
are reciprocating pistons and do require valves. In terms of
reliability we're trading brushes and bearings for reed or
ball valves . . . Hmmmm . . . about a toss up I think . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim tab twice.
Maybe I should go head and order a second one now and call the one in
the kit a practice piece?
Chris Browne
-6 HS
Looking forward to doing the trim tab twice
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: RE: RV-List: Elevator Trim Tab
Date: 1/28/98 8:33 AM
I used regular snips to cut the elevator skin. I followed the plans for
bending and riveting the trim tab. I did not like the results so
ordered a second trim tab skin and made another one. Everything seems
fine, no work of art, but seems like it will do the job.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pumps ONLY |
>One builder (and my auto racing expert building partner) suggests two
>electric fuel pumps in parallel with one way valves to permit one pump
>to provide fuel in event of pump failure. Another builer says "DON'T DO
>IT!! YOU'LL BECOME A GLIDER PILOT IN EVENT OF ELECTRICAL FAILURE!!!"
>
There are relatively painless ways to provide reliable power
for electrically dependent engines. We put dual electronic
ignitions in all the time.
>Can a system with two electric fuel pumps and no engine driven pump be
>designed to be considered safe? With proper design cannot the battery
>and/or alternator provide reliable power to at least one electric fuel
>pump at all times? Please give me your thoughts before I cut my
>beautiful cowl!
A second battery can be maintained by the normally working
alternator and separated from the bus in case of alternator
failure . . . see the bibliography on our website of articles
that deal with this issue. The automatic switchover module
for this task will show up on our website soon. But if you
have any other active warning of alternator failure (VM1000
alarm, EIS voltmeter alarm, ect) then the extra battery can
be maintained manually.
Dual pumps can be plumbed in parallel with check valves to
provide redundancy. The extra battery doesn't have to be a
big guy . . . a 4 a.h. battery would be fine. OR consider a
pack of alkaline cells (some ELT battery packs are good
candidates) as a standby source for fuel pump that are simply
replaced every year.
We'll talk some more about it next week in Ft. Worth . . .
don't carve up your cowl!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
Mike Wills told of a forced landing by a Chev V6 powered Velocity:
> Pilot reported a loud backfire, followed by a loss of power at about 300'.
> After landing, discovered a carb fire.
Sounds like overly rich mixture with liquid fuel in the intake manifold. It is
not common for Chevys to have fuel spill out of the carburetor - I should say
'was' since they don't use carbs any more. If there is a spill, it winds up in
the "valley" between cylinder banks where it either evaporates harmlessly or
catches fire. I agree with Richard Finch's suggestion that a fuel catch tray
(an aluminum pan) should be mounted under the carb with a drain line going out
of the cowl. Then, make damn sure there is no fuel leakage. Even with Lycoming
and its updraft carb the risk of fire is there.
> The owner has decided to build an aluminum block/head V6 to replace this
> engine while he is fixing the damage to the airframe. The airplane has had
> to carry a large amount of nose weight for cg reasons and has been flying at
> >100 pounds heavier than a Lyc. powered Velocity.
This is good news as I have been coming up with weightier numbers for an
installation with iron heads. In an RV, 100 pounds in a V6 installation can be
offset by as little as ten pounds in the tail or shifting the battery to the
luggage compartment. If you can't stand the extra weight, use aluminum heads to
reduce weight by 38 pounds and aluminum block to reduce weight by 75 pounds
more. You also won't have so much money to carry around! :-)
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt Brian J. Mork, 333-6044" <MorkBJ.DFC.USAFA(at)usafa.af.mil> |
| Subject: | re:Smooth surfaces required? |
charset=US-ASCII
Lister wrote:
>The flange strips on recent kits are tapered and have machining marks
on
>them as from a milling cutter and the machining also results in an
>absolutely sharp edge. I believe the sharp edge and maching marks
should >be
>removed for notch sensitivity/strength/fatigue reasons. Do the plans
say
>"finish as from 400 paper" for no reason?
Okay. I give in. This question intrigues me. Unless it's a fracture
or crack (maybe drilling a stop hole would be an example), *removing*
material seems to never strengthen a metal. It would seem the
ridges, lines, ruffles, machining fly-cut marks, etc would be wasted
weight, but how would they actually weaken the piece?
Rough surfaced could weaken a combination piece, where surfaces
have to lie against each other under stress, but a piece by itself.... (?)
---
"Standard disclaimer applies" - PGP key available via my web page.
Brian J. Mork, 4504-C W. Juniper, USAFA, CO 80840
Mork@USA.Net, or http://www.pcisys.net/~mork/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick Question on HS ... |
John Bright wrote:
>
>
> Jeff Carpenter, speaking of spar flange strips, wrote:
>
> >ROUND OFF THE SHARP CORNERS, DEBURR THE SHARP EDGES AND HOLES AND MOVE ON.
>
>
> I agree many builders smooth edges more than structurally necessary in low
> stress areas but when it comes to spar flange strips Jeff's viewpoint
> scares me; perhaps his older kit did not have tapered flange strips.
>
> The flange strips on recent kits are tapered and have machining marks on
> them as from a milling cutter and the machining also results in an
> absolutely sharp edge. I believe the sharp edge and maching marks should be
> removed for notch sensitivity/strength/fatigue reasons. Do the plans say
> "finish as from 400 paper" for no reason?
>
> I used coarser paper to start and worked toward 400. Used a vixen file
> drawn at a 45/45 angle to strip and sandpaper to get radius; made radius
> gage by drilling hole in sheetmetal and cutting it in half. OK... gage is
> anal but proper surface on these structural components is not.
>
It has been about five years since I finished my HS spar and I have found that
the questions on this list
give the impression that the spar flange strips are something to fear. The quickest
way I found to accomplish
the preparation of the doublers was to cut the taper with a bandsaw, rough smooth
the edges cut with a belt
sander, round the appropriate edge radius with a carbide bit in a table mounted
router, and finish up with the
scotchbright wheel. Total time about 1 hour. I don't have any fear about the strength
of these parts as the
scotch bright wheel will smooth out any irregularites you might inavertantly left.
I also like to use a vixen
file to straighten edges. Although I don't have a lot of time to build, ( I'm still
not finished - RV-6 - and
working on the tip up canopy) I feel that the little time I do get to build should
be as productive as
possible.
Don't get so involved with theory that the bird never flies. That is what Van told
me at our last meeting.
Have fun.
Doug RV-6 the canopy might fit one day soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
I bought some shorty Clecos from them and was satisfied. BUT you gotta
remember I'll by tools that look like heck but when I'm done with them they
will almost look new if I'm going to keep and use them. I have spent
several hours cleaning used *good* clecoes and restoring them to fine
shape. At < .15 ea. I couldn't pass them up. Al
<110014.1237(at)compuserve.com>
>
>Has anyone used/bought tools from Clinton Aircraft Tools in Atlanta, GA?
>Wayne seems to have some very good pricing.
>
>Future RV6
>Robert Wadsworth
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss <WstcttPrss(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick Question on HS ... |
In a message dated 1/28/98 8:06:31 AM, you wrote:
<>
I've been on the phone at length with Vans as well as in Jerry Scott's hanger.
They all have laughed at me for the kind of time I spent sanding. My flange
strips are smoother than snot on a doorknob... not only on the edges but on
the faces as well. The new bulider has a great tendancy to over-do every last
thing, and this 400 grit sand paper discussion seems to keep them marching
down that same wheel-spinning path.
Jeff Carpenter
RV-6
Altadena, CA
wstcttprss(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | WI builder group |
robert dziewiontkoski wrote:
>
> Are there any Wisconsin RV builders that would be interested in forming a
> builders group or getting together to work on a plane or launch a WI RV
> newsletter?
Don't know where you live, but there are quite a few of us in EAA
Chapter 18, which meets every 4th Tuesday at 730pm, in the CAP hanger at
Timmerman Fld in Milwaukee. We have discussed a builders group, but
there is not much interest since we see already each other, and the
aircraft & projects, regularly.
Chapter 18 includes the original founders of EAA. EAA #1-#5 are all
members and #2-#5 regularly attend the meetings. This is a very active
"builders" chapter. If you live in the area you are welcome to check us
out.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lead times(COLD WEATHER |
Hey Mark,
Do you do your own finish paint in your shop? If so is the window unit
enough to eliminate those fisheyes you get from the humidity?
Watch for traffic
Eric Henson
>>> BTW- a 30K btu window (220V) unit keeps my 26' x 60' shop at 80F w/ 95F
outside. More important, the humidity is kept low.<<
Check Six
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Chris Browne wrote:
> Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim tab twice.
I was unhappy with the results of my trim tab construction but installed it
anyway. I made a little rib rather than try to fold in the ends and it is
*SAFE* but not as pretty as I'd like. What I am going to do is replace it
someday in the future, after it is flying.
> Maybe I should go head and order a second one now and call the one in
> the kit a practice piece?
My entire RV6A (Valentine) is a "practice piece".
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
This listing is for an RV4 builder who doesn't have internet access:
Mark Spry, Elkmont, AL 205-732-4657 (evenings)
Steel fuselage jig for RV4. Excellent workmanship. Call for info and
price. (North Alabama)
Sam Buchanan (STILL waiting on wing kit.......sigh........)
sbuc(at)traveller.com
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pumps ONLY |
<< A second battery can be maintained by the normally working
alternator and separated from the bus in case of alternator
failure . . . see the bibliography on our website of articles
that deal with this issue. The automatic switchover module
for this task will show up on our website soon. But if you
have any other active warning of alternator failure (VM1000
alarm, EIS voltmeter alarm, ect) then the extra battery can
be maintained manually.
Dual pumps can be plumbed in parallel with check valves to
provide redundancy. The extra battery doesn't have to be a
big guy . . . a 4 a.h. battery would be fine. OR consider a
pack of alkaline cells (some ELT battery packs are good
candidates) as a standby source for fuel pump that are simply
replaced every year.
We'll talk some more about it next week in Ft. Worth . . .
don't carve up your cowl!
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
>>
The question is, is all this extra weight, time, money, and energy worth it
just to get around installing a mechanical fuel pump. Believe me guys the
weight for these extras really starts to add up fast. You wont believe how
much an extra 50lbs of weight makes a differance on your RV. Try and remember
to keep it simple, it will climb faster, fly just as well, and there is less
to go wrong down the road.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Did mine once, and came out as well as any I have seen on any RV. Couldnt
be happier with it. As with all things, think before you do anything, and
practice the bending on some scrap (if you dont have some, get some).
Mike Wills
RV-4 (fuse ordered)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim tab twice.
>
> Chris Browne
> -6 HS
> Looking forward to doing the trim tab twice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Hole in your Cowl |
Will:
I never saw any comments on your fuel pump/cowl problem. Have you got any
other problem with the H2AD fitting in the Cowl? What did you come up
with.
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTED AIR <BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | alternate engines |
Gentlemen: We at Belted Air Have been flying an RV-6A with a chevy V-6 for
almost 3 years, we still offer a ride to any one who gets to Las Vegas please
call ahead first . Try it for yourself see what its really like we have over
185 hours troublefree, I wish I could compare it to a Lyc, but no one has
offered a ride in a Lyc powered 6A for comparison. (702) 384-8006 or
beltedair(at)aol.com Our web site with pictures is beltedair.com
Thank you
Jess
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
I announced to a friend today that I intended to use auto fuel in one tank
of my RV. He said that he intended to do the same thing until he found that
one of our RV group had run a test wherein he put a couple of pieces of
aluminum with Proseal sandwiched between them into a container of mogas and
left it there for 2 years. At the end of this time, he took the test piece
out and found they came apart easily and the Proseal could be scraped off
with your fingernail almost like chewing gum. He believes that Proseal is
degraded by mogas. Damn, avgas costs double what mogas does bringing to
$3.40 per gallon locally.
Sloshing compound was not used.
Any comments or experiences out there ?.............Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 1)Wheel pants and 2)Nose wheel main bar. |
-----Original Message-----
From: Willemssen, Chris J. <chris.j.willemssen(at)loram.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 2:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: 1)Wheel pants and 2)Nose wheel main bar.
1) Concerning the wheel pants--has anyone had trouble with them filling up
with slush/snow.
Cessna puts an adjustable scraper bar in the pants as an aid but requires
that pants be off during winter operation. A serious problem arrises when
you acquire slush during takeoff, it freezes at altitude, and the wheels are
locked when you land.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrigton, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt Brian J. Mork, 333-6044" <MorkBJ.DFC.USAFA(at)usafa.af.mil> |
You wrote:
>I have spent
>several hours cleaning used *good* clecoes and restoring them to fine
>shape. At < .15 ea. I couldn't pass them up. Al
Anybody have need for an ultrasonic cleaner? I have two, and only
use one. If interested, reply to mork(at)usa.net
---
"Standard disclaimer applies" - PGP key available via my web page.
Brian J. Mork, 4504-C W. Juniper, USAFA, CO 80840
Mork@USA.Net, or http://www.pcisys.net/~mork/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
halk(at)sybase.com wrote:
> > >100 pounds heavier than a Lyc. powered Velocity.
>
> This is good news as I have been coming up with weightier numbers for an
> installation with iron heads. In an RV, 100 pounds in a V6 installation
> can be
> offset by as little as ten pounds in the tail or shifting the battery to
> the
> luggage compartment. If you can't stand the extra weight, use aluminum
> heads to
> reduce weight by 38 pounds and aluminum block to reduce weight by 75 pounds
> more. You also won't have so much money to carry around! :-)
Do some arithmetic on what that extra 100lbs will cost you though...
here's some figuring I did recently regarding O320 vs O360...
In the RVAtor that's online, there were only two -6s which gave
weights: an O360 at 1058 and an O320 at 976. That's an 82lb
difference... dunno how much of that is due to the heavier engine, but
it doesn't really matter.
Given a 210lb pilot and full fuel (38 gallons = 120???lbs), if I have
a 976lb plane, at Gross (1600lbs) I have 294lbs available for luggage
& passenger... ie another big guy, plus 40lbs luggage each... good
enough for a weekend or more away. With the O360 plane, I have only
212lb available... I can take a big guy and no luggage, or a 130lb
blonde girl and some luggage (no room for pajamas though :-)
Aerobatics-wise, with me flying, gives 1340 - 210 = 1130lbs for plane,
fuel, and passenger. With a 1058lb plane, that only leaves 72lbs for
fuel+passenger -- it's either solo aerobatics with half a tank of
fuel, or I can take the blonde girl aboard with no fuel. With a 976lb
plane however, I can take that blonde girl up for an hour or so. More,
if I go on a diet!
Bear in mind also that heavier weights mean longer landing and (unless
offset by more power) takeoff distances. I guess that to carry that
extra weight, you would also either need to use more power (and
therefore more fuel) for the same airspeed, or the same power for a
lower airspeed. In either case, you lose range.
It really is important to build your plane as light as possible.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
(snip)
Has anyone used/bought tools from Clinton Aircraft Tools in Atlanta, GA?
No experience with above, but Clinton's tool of Arkansas seems to be
getting a lot of publicity and endorsements.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT 8127 <PILOT8127(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Exhaust Cracking. |
Hello Listers !!
Has anyone had a problem with the exhaust stack at the #3 cyl. cracking and
separating ? I have had it professionally welded twice. Any more (weld)
buildup around the flange, and I will have to "glue it" in place ;^) Maybe I
should just order a new set? Also, what is the foot/pounds (or inch/pounds)
of torque for #1 tightening the spark-plugs, and #2 torque requirements for
the prop nuts, (Pacesetter 200) wood 68/79 ?
Gary (and) RV-3 N5AJ Flying PS: Check out Sam's cool Web-Site and all the
RV's there!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pumps ONLY |
> The question is, is all this extra weight, time, money, and energy worth it
>just to get around installing a mechanical fuel pump. Believe me guys the
>weight for these extras really starts to add up fast. You wont believe how
>much an extra 50lbs of weight makes a differance on your RV. Try and remember
>to keep it simple, it will climb faster, fly just as well, and there is less
>to go wrong down the road.
> Ryan Bendure
How about 3 pounds? Or better yet, split the main battery requirements
between a pair of 12 a.h. batteries with their own contactors . . . again
about a 3 pound penalty and exemplar reliability.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hottest Cylinder????? |
Ron, I've been watching all my cylinders with the RMI monitor and it
seems #1 runs about 30 degrees C cooler that 2,3 and 4. No 2,3 and 4
run anywhere between 180 and 210 depending on climbout. This is with
OAT at about 10 Degrees C. No 2,3 and 4 all run at the same temp.
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lighting question |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
writes:
>
>Ed,
>I would like to buy the other two if I am first to respond. E-mail me
>your
>address and I'll send you a check. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
Hi Al, you are first, and they are yours. I posted the message last
night, and this morning I already had 5 replies! This list is amazing.
Enjoy the lights, I really like them. I wired the lights in parallel
through a 200 ohm, 4 watt wire wound pot. Make sure you use this pot, a
smaller one will burn up. The lights put out one watt each.
Ed Bundy
9103 Hanley Pl.
Eagle, ID 83616
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1)Wheel pants and 2)Nose wheel main bar. |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>1) Concerning the wheel pants--has anyone had trouble with them
>filling up with slush/snow? Last two times we've taken the RV out, it's
been
>snowy/slushy (can you say Minnesota?). As we were taxiing back to the
hangar last
>From what we could tell, there are two solutions--one being to remove
>the pants for the winter, or the other cutting out the bottom of the
wheel pants
I wouldn't cut out the wheel pants. I doubt this would solve the problem
entirely, and it would create more drag all the time. I live in Idaho,
and we get snowy slushy conditions from time to time (certainly not as
much as Minnesota) and I just pull the pants off. It's quick and easy,
and one less thing to worry about.
>The problem is that as the bar flexxes, the fiberglass does not, thus
causing the piece to
>separate from the main bar.
>Suffering from severe ignorance, I'm not sure if this trailing edge
piece is
>even a standard RV part. And if it is, I would guess this has got to
Hmm. The part is definitely standard, but I have not experienced this
problem (nor even heard of it before). I can see how this could happen,
but perhaps there isn't enough fiberglass on the leg. I used 4"
fiberglass tape and wrapped the entire leg overlapping 2" of the tape on
each wrap. So there is basically 2 layers of tape all the way up the leg
in one unbroken strip.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Engine Compartment Temps |
Just a bit of data for the data collectors. I used an extra temp sensor
on my RMI monitor to keep track of engine compartment temps. The sensor
is located on the forward side of the firewall behind the oil filter of
an 0360 A1A. In normal flight in cruise config. the temp runs about 37
Degrees C with an outside temp of 10 Deg. C. I'll post another message
after the next flight to let you know what that temp does after engine
shutdown.
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KB2DU <KB2DU(at)aol.com> |
Could some one please give me the E-Mail Address for Gretz -
I need the information on the Heated Pito he sells with and without static.
Thanks
Bill
KB2DU(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
----------
> Subject: RV-List: Auto fuel
> I announced to a friend today that I intended to use auto fuel in one tank
> of my RV. He said that he intended to do the same thing until he found that
> one of our RV group had run a test wherein he put a couple of pieces of
> aluminum with Proseal sandwiched between them into a container of mogas and
> left it there for 2 years. At the end of this time, he took the test piece
> out and found they came apart easily and the Proseal could be scraped off
> with your fingernail almost like chewing gum. He believes that Proseal is
> degraded by mogas. Damn, avgas costs double what mogas does bringing to
> $3.40 per gallon locally.
> Sloshing compound was not used.
> Any comments or experiences out there ?.............Austin.
Austin,
I would tell you I've used Auto Gas ( only Ammco) for 6 yrs, going on 700
hrs.
in both tanks with absolutely no problems. But I don't want 50 other know- it-
alls
telling me how wrong I am to use Auto gas and how bad it is for my engine. So
I won't tell you my experiences. Ha Ha
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
gretz-aero(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
It does come pretty close to the cross brace on my 6A, 0320, installation. I
was told to keep an eye on it and if it looks like it is touching, due to
engine vibration, then B&C has an extension that mounts between the adapter
and the engine. This moves the unit aft, away from the engine mount cross
piece.
Walt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Lead times(COLD WEATHER) |
Hello, Listers. This is the "Vapour Barrier" guy.
I posted my general plans for providing a comfortable workshop. In this
thread people were talking about "dripping sweat", working in frigid temps.,
taking off part of the year, etc. The issue is that more people will
complete their projects IF they are comfortable and don't lose momentum due
to long lay offs. My method is to use a lobour-easy and wallet-wise approach
to happy building. For instance, vapour barrier costs about $1.00 per 100 sq
ft plus some staples, insulation is cheap and a kid can install it, and
sheetrock (gyproc) is fairly cheap and easy to install. Not rocket science.
All of these costs will be recuperated at resale time.
My comments were - and still are correct. I will use the post from Mark
(Austin, TX) for correcting the misleading stuff from some posters.
> I have built a few houses and workshops. I would suggest not using the
"vapor barrier" between insulation and sheetrock. It will do just that,
collect moisture. The moisture will condesate on the plastic and do one of
two things (depending on which side of the plastic it collects). You will
experience either wet sheetrock or soaking insulation (this info. is from a
local commercial/residential insulation contractor).
The ONLY purpose of "insulation" is to resist the transfer of heat - and of
course sound, in EITHER direction. It doesn't matter which approved material
you use - certified R-value, doesn't support combustion, doesn't "settle",
etc., etc. I like fiberglass batts. It doesn't require chemicals for fire,
creepy crawly things, etc. AND I don't have pay a crew for a scenic drive
out to my camp to "blow in" some new treated chemicals that are (trust me)
inert.
The ONLY purpose of the vapour barrier is to stop moisture - and of course
drafts, in EITHER direction. Buildings are natural sieves. Air's ability to
retain moisture varies according to temperature. When the air temperature
on one side is significantly different it will really try to pick up (or
lose) the moisture when it gets to the other side (drafts, leaks, etc.). In
the north moisture is NO problemo! Furnaces have built in humidifiers to put
moisture in the inside air to stop dry skin, static electricity, dowels
falling out of furniture, etc. My workshop will be comfortable for the RV
even though it does not meet all building code requirements (An inspector
would still not approve it as fit for human habitation). The rules apply -
North or South (but on which side should the barrier be down south). Maybe
it doen't matter - it sure does up north!!!
>It would seem that the 3M "Tyvek" sheeting would be a better mat'l for this
application- vapor moves one way- out- and air movement is kept to a
minimum.
However, I do remember seeing one of those do-it-yourself shows using
plastic
over insulation behind a wood cathedral ceiling. I will be building my wife
a
new house soon, so I'm gathering info on such subjects.
I am not familiar with the 3M Tyek stuff. If you live in an incorporated
area you probably are subject to published building codes which you may have
to comply with??? Your "cathedral roof" application - for your area, is the
SAME as I have stated for the RV-6A workshop - in my area. The wood part of
course being irrelevant (decoration only).
>A/C is used a lot here. BTW- a 30K btu window (220V) unit keeps my 26' x
60' shop at 80F w/ 95F outside. More important, the humidity is kept low.
This statement is an excellent help for anyone. I'm a northerner. All I know
is to get air I open a window. I think that the idea would be to install an
a/c that is strong enough to cool......but weak enough so that it has to run
a lot (to remove max. moisture). My impression is that a big A/C makes air
that is cool and "clammy". I guess??
Happy Building (in comfort)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
>He believes that Proseal is degraded by mogas.
Some mogas contains alcohol, ethanol or methanol. These are harmful to some
rubber and even metal parts, methanol (wood) more than ethanol (grain). I
believe an old Sport Aviation described a water solubility method of
testing for presence fo alcohol.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA
john.bright(at)bigfoot.com
H:757-886-1161, W:757-875-7324
RV-6/6A 25088, rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Duberstein <Allen_Duberstein(at)ccm.fm.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hole in your Cowl |
Text item:
All:
I have a -H2AD under my cowl. Fuel pump and all, it fits
allen
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com AT SMTPGATE on 01/28/98 05:34
Subject: RV-List: Hole in your Cowl
Will:
I never saw any comments on your fuel pump/cowl problem. Have you got
any other problem with the H2AD fitting in the Cowl? What did you come
up with.
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:34:46 EST
Subject: RV-List: Hole in your Cowl
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
by mailbag.jf.intel.com (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15344
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PAA04552 for | Date: | Jan 28, 1998 |
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Could some one please give me the E-Mail Address for Gretz -
>I need the information on the Heated Pito he sells with and without static.
Gretz Aero
W. Warren Gretz
3664 East Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
We'll have pictures of Warren's work up on our "other vendors
of interest" page soon.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
>Okay. I give in. This question intrigues me. Unless it's a fracture
> or crack (maybe drilling a stop hole would be an example), *removing*
> material seems to never strengthen a metal. It would seem the
> ridges, lines, ruffles, machining fly-cut marks, etc would be wasted
> weight, but how would they actually weaken the piece?
Brian, in most cases you are correct in stating that the part is weaker
when you remove material (weaker with regard to a single loading to
failure). However, the fatigue life can be changed dramatically by
imperfections in the surface such as those you mention. In other words,
when you remove material (imperfections) from some part, the single cycle
load that that part would survive drops, while the fatigue life likely goes
up. Fatigue life is essentially how many cycles of a given loading the
part would be expected to survive. Fatigue life drives many design
decisions in aircraft, while others are driven by the ultimate strength.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
6A canopy fitting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Costello <bcos(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tools Clinton Aircraft Tools |
<110014.1237(at)compuserve.com>
>
>Has anyone used/bought tools from Clinton Aircraft Tools in Atlanta, GA?
>Wayne seems to have some very good pricing.
>
>Future RV6
>Robert Wadsworth
I bought from Clinton when I was first starting out and I would never
do it again. Most of the stuff he sent me was junk.
Best regards,
Bill Costello bcos(at)ix.netcom.com Chicago
RV-6 in process N97WC reserved SBGA enthusiast
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
>>I believe the sharp edge and maching marks should be removed
>>for notch sensitivity/strength/fatigue reasons.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(Emphasis added)
>Okay. I give in. This question intrigues me. Unless it's a fracture
>or crack (maybe drilling a stop hole would be an example), *removing*
>material seems to never strengthen a metal. It would seem the
>ridges, lines, ruffles, machining fly-cut marks, etc would be wasted
>weight, but how would they actually weaken the piece?
>Brian J. Mork, 4504-C W. Juniper, USAFA, CO 80840
Think of each little tool mark as a nick in the surface of the metal. A
potential stress riser. When loaded the flanges on an "I" or "C" spar are
loaded in compression or tension. If you have a "rough" edge on the spar
cap, you have places where the metal will crack easier than if it were all
smooth.
Same reason we remove metal from a prop to make it stronger. File the
nicks down to smooth metal and reduce the chance of a crack propagating
from the surface imperfection. Your example of stop drilling is a good
one. Filing the edges of the spar cap smooth expands the area a stress
must act on, thus giving the same effect as a stop drill or de-burr on a
hole that exists already.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hottest Cylinder????? |
<< I almost NEVER hear of anyone including temperature
surveys under the cowl during flight test on
experimentals. There are other things you may be
cooking too . . . like gascolators, alternators,
vacuum pumps, batteries, etc. >>
Bob-
It's in MY plan. I have a 12VDC powered chart recorder and a free air
thermocouple that I intend to use in precisely the way you describe. I use
the VM1000 for multipoint engine CHT/EGT.
I also have temperature indicators (stickers) made by Tempil that turn dark
upon reaching a certain temperature. After a survey with the tc at various
critical FWF areas, I will place the proper temp range sticker in these
locations so I can monitor things over time and get a better understanding of
the Delta Ts.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
>Okay. I give in. This question intrigues me. Unless it's a fracture
>or crack (maybe drilling a stop hole would be an example), *removing*
>material seems to never strengthen a metal. It would seem the
>ridges, lines, ruffles, machining fly-cut marks, etc would be wasted
>weight, but how would they actually weaken the piece?
>
>Rough surfaced could weaken a combination piece, where surfaces
>have to lie against each other under stress, but a piece by itself.... (?)
My understanding is that the machining marks, if left alone, are places of
stress concentration much like a cut in the material that ends in a sharp
corner rather than a radius. If the material is subjected to vibration,
and most airplane parts are, the part can fail, crack, or break at the
points where the stresses are most severe, or concentrated - ie; at the
sharp corners or machining marks (which bottom out in sharp corners!).
I remember an AD from a few years ago dealing with the props on C152s and
the like. One of them lost a prop blade and, upon inspection, it was
determined that the failure was due to scratches that were left in the
surface from a sanding operation that were never polished out. This led to
a requirement to remove the paint from the affected props in the field to
inspect for the scratches, and polish them out if necessary.
I was really surprised when I was making the little hold-down clamps for
the pitot line to hold it to the spar. I just cut the strips and started
bending them without polishing the edges first, and they kept cracking due
to the tight radius, I assumed. Then, I tried one after polishing the
edges on the S/B wheel and presto, no problem with cracking.
Anyway, that's my understanding of the reasoning - sorry for the
long-windedness...
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
I am ready for my tools for my QB -6a...which tools do I REALLY need at
first? I do not want to buy 1,000.00 worth of tools to begin. Could I get
away with a gun, sets, bucking bars, and deburring tool? (I already have a
compressor)
Do I need a dimpler right away?
thanks for the info...
Paul Besing
RV-6A QB (197AB Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< but Clinton's tool of Arkansas seems to be
getting a lot of publicity and endorsements. >>
I've too have heard that they are a growing concern and use of their hardware
is firmly on the rise.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Austin,
I used mostly auto fuel in the right tank of my first RV4 for more than 9
Yrs. Sometimes pure auto fuel, sometimes a mixture with 100LL. It still
doesn't leak.
Regards, Bill RV4 N66WD
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Exhaust Cracking. |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Gary,
Is your exhaust system braced back to the engine? It should not be
braced to the airframe or engine mount, this promotes cracking.
Proper spark plug torque is 25 ft-lb. I dont recall prop bolt torque but
it does vary with the diameter of your prop bolts. Hope this helps
Regards, Bill RV4 N66WD
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Exhaust Cracking. |
<< Has anyone had a problem with the exhaust stack at the #3 cyl. cracking and
separating ? I have had it professionally welded twice. Any more (weld)
buildup around the flange, and I will have to "glue it" in place ;^) Maybe I
should just order a new set? >>
Is this a Larry Vetterman High Country system or an Alan Tolle system? I
would think that Larry would want to see it for repair.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Austin;
I am of the opinion that the gentleman may be wrong. My experience is
with the right tank being kept full of auto gas (reg) at all times except
when x-country and could not buy auto. I kept 100ll in the left tank at all
times for take off and landings. Do you notice my attempt to remember what
is where? Right is regular and left is Low lead!! Takes simple stuff for a
mind like mine.
I started this about the 2 or 3 month I was flying my bird, and it was
still that way when I sold it. Hadn't had a leak in that time, from about
May of 94 til Jun of 97. I had also used slosh in my tanks, as when I
built, it was still the recommended thing to do. I never saw any slosh that
came off and was collected in my filters. I think the secret to the
sticking is in the cleaning of the metal.
Not that it is right, but I first used a kitchen type SOS pad on my metal.
It both has soap and scuffs the surface. Then I cleaned it with Simple
Green. Then rinsed and rinsed it. Finally, I cleaned it with Coleman stove
fuel (some call it white gas, others call it carbon tetra chloride, others
call it Varsol). It is what Vans recommended in the construction book. The
good thing about it is that it soaks up the oils and keeps it in suspension.
I did this using the medical gauze that I got from my dentist (also what
rubber (vinyl or what ever it is) gloves). Use plenty of the liquid
because you are cleaning and flushing the stuff off. From that clean up
on, I NEVER touched the surfaces except to spread proseal on them. After
the tank was completed, I used a syringe and a piece of plastic tubing to
get the slosh where I wanted it (the proper cell) and then tilted the tank
around to get it to run on the edges and corners.
I can't help but believe that he maybe did not have a good bond of
proseal, or that I was damned lucky.
Don't know why I'm telling you this, because you have your tanks
completed. But If you have done them correctly, and I'll wager you have, I
wouldn't worry about the auto gas and pro-seal.
Press on, friend.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 N61764 sold
Stephenville TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot |
Just finished added Warren Gretz's pitot tube and associated
mounting parts to our website. See . . .
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/others.html>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
Only did it once on my old kit, but made a cardboard template first.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
> Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim tab twice.
> Maybe I should go head and order a second one now and call the one in
> the kit a practice piece?
>
> Chris Browne
> -6 HS
> Looking forward to doing the trim tab twice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hole in your Cowl |
> From: Allen Duberstein <Allen_Duberstein(at)ccm.fm.intel.com>
> All:
> I have a -H2AD under my cowl. Fuel pump and all, it fits
Allen,
That's great! How much clearance do you have between the pump and the
cowling? Is the aircraft flying, and if so have you had any interference
problems?
I ask because I've been told that you need at least 1/2" clearance all
around, otherwise engine vibration and g-loads will cause rubbing.
Rob (RV-6Q using H2AD).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I am building a QB in the same hangar as my friend is building a "regular"
RV6. I think I have used every tool he has.
The QB requires you to do everything ... not quite as much repetition and
some things that are NOT required of regular builders.
You will need drills, clecos, rivet gun, bucking bars, deburring tools,
cutting tools, sanders, scotchbrite, dimpling tools, etc, etc. A band saw
will be very helpful in cutting the wood for the forming blocks.
James
RV6A QB working on Rudder
----------
> From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: QB Tools
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 9:57 PM
>
>
> I am ready for my tools for my QB -6a...which tools do I REALLY need at
> first? I do not want to buy 1,000.00 worth of tools to begin. Could I
get
> away with a gun, sets, bucking bars, and deburring tool? (I already have
a
> compressor)
>
> Do I need a dimpler right away?
>
> thanks for the info...
>
> Paul Besing
>
> RV-6A QB (197AB Reserved)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Austin Tinckler wrote:
>
>
> I announced to a friend today that I intended to use auto fuel in one tank
> of my RV. He said that he intended to do the same thing until he found that
> one of our RV group had run a test wherein he put a couple of pieces of
> aluminum with Proseal sandwiched between them into a container of mogas and
> left it there for 2 years. At the end of this time, he took the test piece
> out and found they came apart easily and the Proseal could be scraped off
> with your fingernail almost like chewing gum. He believes that Proseal is
> degraded by mogas. Damn, avgas costs double what mogas does bringing to
> $3.40 per gallon locally.
> Sloshing compound was not used.
> Any comments or experiences out there ?.............Austin.
>
If memory serves me right I remember that Van changed the type of
tank sealer back in the 80's because there was a problem with
compatibility with some of the additives in auto fuel. If you are
using the current Proseal from Van's you won't have a problem with
auto fuel. As I said it was a long time ago and I can't remember all
the details but you can probably find out from Van's.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gasobek(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | EAA Chapter 1 Open House |
How many RV's are planning on attending EAA Chapter 1's Open House? It
is going to be Saturday and Sunday February 21-22, 1998.
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hottest Cylinder????? |
>
>
><< I almost NEVER hear of anyone including temperature
> surveys under the cowl during flight test on
> experimentals. There are other things you may be
> cooking too . . . like gascolators, alternators,
> vacuum pumps, batteries, etc. >>
>
>Bob-
>
>It's in MY plan. I have a 12VDC powered chart recorder and a free air
>thermocouple that I intend to use in precisely the way you describe. I use
>the VM1000 for multipoint engine CHT/EGT.
>
>I also have temperature indicators (stickers) made by Tempil that turn dark
>upon reaching a certain temperature. After a survey with the tc at various
>critical FWF areas, I will place the proper temp range sticker in these
>locations so I can monitor things over time and get a better understanding of
>the Delta Ts.
>
>-GV
>
Bless you! May your engine run long and strong . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Exhaust Cracking. |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Has anyone had a problem with the exhaust stack at the #3 cyl.
>cracking and
>separating ?
Only until I removed my Tolle exhaust and installed one from High Country
Exhaust (Larry Vetterman).
>of torque for #1 tightening the spark-plugs,
I believe it is 35 Ft lbs.
and #2 torque
>requirements for
>the prop nuts, (Pacesetter 200) wood 68/79 ?
>
Depends on what size prop. bolts you are using. Use the standard torque
value that is called for on your bolt/nut.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
> Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim tab
>twice.
> Maybe I should go head and order a second one now and call the
>one in
> the kit a practice piece?
>
> Chris Browne
> -6 HS
> Looking forward to doing the trim tab twice
>
>
One possible consideration would be to put off building the tab until
after building other portions of the airplane.
The .016 skins (.020 on the RV-8) are thin and easily damaged. You will
gain hundreds of hours of experience building the remainder which may
help get the finish everyone must be striving for on their trim tab.
I would like to add a hint in using snips/shears whether it is for thin
.016 skins or .040 on the fuselage. This is a hint already known by
many, and I believe that it is mentioned in the man. but I'm not sure.
When you have to make a finished edge cut with any kind of snips or
shears and you want it to look as good as possible. Always do it in two
steps. Make one cut about 1/8" away from the final cut line and don't
worry about what kink marks it makes. Then go back and finish the cut by
trimming off the last 1/8 inch.
The kink marks are made as a result of the large amount of metal that is
being force to peal away from the finish piece. If the final cut is only
1/8" it makes a very nice tight curl with little resistance to the
shearing action and just about any type or brand of shears will do a
pretty nice job if they are sharp. If you have the type of shears that
leave marks from the serration's, dress them off with a file.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert G. Miller" <rgmiller(at)acadiacom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimples or dimple tape |
The tape should be on the market in the near future.
Rodney Coston wrote:
>
>
> >
> >You wrote:
> >
> >>There is a man in New Orleans (Sam Steele, I believe) who
> >>patented some dimple tape for the leading edges of airplanes. He
> >>put it on his -4 and claims a pick up of 8 mph. His friend with
> >>another plane claims he picked up 10 mph. I thinkthere was an
> >>article in sport aviation a while back concerning this.
> >
> >January 1998 Sport Aviation.
> >
>
> I still cant figure where to get the stuff from the article---or am I just
> missing it.
>
> Rod Coston
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | re:Smooth surfaces required? |
>Okay. I give in. This question intrigues me. Unless it's a fracture
>or crack (maybe drilling a stop hole would be an example), *removing*
>material seems to never strengthen a metal. It would seem the
>ridges, lines, ruffles, machining fly-cut marks, etc would be wasted
>weight, but how would they actually weaken the piece?
>
>Rough surfaced could weaken a combination piece, where surfaces
>have to lie against each other under stress, but a piece by itself.... (?)
>
Brian,
If and when a crack or break occurs, it will start at a nick, scratch or
some kind of blemish. Any kind of sharp edge is a place where stress will
concentrate. The stress concentrated there will sometimes exceed the
strength of the material, causing a failure. By removing scratches, machine
marks and the like (to a point), there will be "stress raisers" for stress
to concentrate. Thus, the stress is distributed more evenly along the piece.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Right Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
I'm about to ream out the main spar center holes.
Plans versus drawing #6 is a bit unclear as to the proper size.
Aircraft Spruce lists specs for NAS1104 bolts as .3120 + 0, -0.001, but
what are the specs for the NAS1304 bolts? What's the difference between
NAS11xx and NAS13xx anyway?
I drilled/reamed out one hole with a .3125 reamer, and bolt went in with
a faily light tap on the head.
I know there was a discussion of this a while back but couldn't access
the archives.
Second question: I got some NAS1304-31 bolts cheap ($.50). Can I shorten
them to -26 (requires cutting the thread further down the bolt too), if
I smooth out out the end of the thread cut? Someone warned me that
cutting the tread on aircraft bolts weakens then as the origianl thread
was rolled not cut. However, do these spar bolts carry much tension? It
would seem most of the load is in shear?
Reason I bring this up is NAS1305-26 bolts from Van's are $3.50 or more
a bolt (x16 = $56 or more) - money I'd rather use elsewhere.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pumps ONLY |
<< How about 3 pounds? Or better yet, split the main battery requirements
between a pair of 12 a.h. batteries with their own contactors . . . again
about a 3 pound penalty and exemplar reliability.
>>
As I said before ( KISS) keep it simple. Less to go wrong, and easier to
maintain.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< Finally, I cleaned it with Coleman stove
fuel (some call it white gas, others call it carbon tetra chloride, others
call it Varsol). It is what Vans recommended in the construction book. >>
Coleman fuel is coal tar naphtha, works well and leaves virtually no non-
volatile residue.
There is no Carbon Tet in it. DO NOT use Carbon Tet as it is carcinogenic
bigtime and will no doubt shorten your life span.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
In a message dated 1/28/98 1:27:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, cebrowne@duke-
energy.com writes:
> Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim tab twice.
> Maybe I should go head and order a second one now and call the one in
> the kit a practice piece?
>
I only built the trim tab once. I actually made a pattern of the trim tab
from poster board, including the little fold-up ends. I taped this pattern to
the trim tab spar and to the trim tab hinge. This was attached to the
elevator. Once the pattern was perfect, I traced it onto the aluminum and cut
the trim tab out. It came out perfectly. After all that, I missed my edge
distance on the hinge holes, generating my first piece of scrap. Oh well.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 builder needs major help |
Hello all,
I've mostly been a lurker on this list but I'm going to have to speak up
now because I need some help. A little background first. I purchased a
completed empanage kit and incomplete wing kit from a builder who gave
up for lack of time. By doing this I didn't get to learn on the
empanage--I'm now having to learn on the wing.
Here are my problems:
Left wing leading edge: I strapped down the leading edge skin and
marked where the ribs were on the inside of the skin. I then removed
the L/E skin and drilled the holes on the top side using a template I
had made. This turned out to be a bad idea because my template wasn't
just right. I then drew my black line on the rib flanges and strapped
the skin back on. The holes I had drilled wandered a bit but I could
see the black line on one side or other of the holes so I thought it
would be okay. It mostly was. I went ahead and drilled the ribs using
the holes in the strapped on skin as drill guides. When I removed the
skin again to check the holes I had just drilled in the rib flanges I
noticed two problems.
Problem 1) The top two holes (as the wing sits in the jig) on three of
the ribs are too close to the edge of the flange (as in microns). On
two of the three ribs the top most hole completely missed the rib
(despite the suggested offset -- Van's was right, I just screwed up).
Problem 2) On one rib (this is also one of the ribs affected by problem
1) one rivet hole has been drilled right next to the spar. I mean
*right* next to it.
I know the purists out there will tell me to chalk it up as a learning
experience and order new ribs and leading edge skin. While that is a
possiblity that I may end up having to pursue, I would also like to see
if anyone has any other sugestions. This is not going to be a show
plane, I'm not too concerned with cosmetics. I just want a *safe*
acceptable work around for my dilema.
I have a couple of ideas that I will keep to myself because I want to
see some other suggestions first. Then I'll bounce off the list what I
had in mind and you guys can tell me if they are feasible or not.
Many thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide!!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Network and System Administrator
Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
Phone: 408-743-2224
Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776
Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
Sounds like there is a market out there for prebuilt trim tabs....
Any entrepreneurs in the house?
Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim
tab twice.
Maybe I should go head and order a second one now and call
the one in
the kit a practice piece?
Chris Browne
-6 HS
Looking forward to doing the trim tab twice
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 builder needs major help |
Scott,
I don't have any advice for you, I just want to say keep at it
till you get it right. (Been there, done that.) I would let
small things go when I got in a hurry, and now, when I see a
"perfect" rv, I want to go back and fix all the little things I
let go. It has only cost a couple hundred dollars (or less) but
is well worth it when you see the finished product. I have been
flying a -4 I bought from someone else. I am barely working on
my other -4 because it is too much fun flying this one. At least
I am taking my time on the unfinished one now. See ya. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 1)Wheel pants and 2)Nose wheel main bar. |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
>
>
>1) Concerning the wheel pants--has anyone had trouble with them
>filling up
>with slush/snow.
Couple of years ago I left the Hartford CT area for Sun 'N Fun
(April). The runway was covered with an inch of wet snow. Flew most of
the way up high, with only one cold stop in N Carolina. After landing and
parking in Florida (85 degrees), puddles sudenly appeared around the
wheels of my -6A. This was followed by chunks of ice falling inside the
wheel pants.
I now take off the wheel pants every winter..........
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
place ;^)
Maybe I
> should just order a new set? >>
>
>Is this a Larry Vetterman High Country system or an Alan Tolle system?
I
>would think that Larry would want to see it for repair.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | auto fuel eats pro-seal? |
Listers:
One aspect of the mogas discussion is missing: did this tester change the gas
on a, say, weekly basis? I'm not too sure what compound would be in a jar
after two years, but I'd bet it only resembled mogas.
This could be a factor in the deterioration of the sealant.
So: if you use mogas, you'd better fly often! Hey, that's an excuse I haven't
used yet. "Sorry, honey. I gotta go fly to use up that week-old gas..."
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pumps ONLY |
>
>
><< How about 3 pounds? Or better yet, split the main battery requirements
> between a pair of 12 a.h. batteries with their own contactors . . . again
> about a 3 pound penalty and exemplar reliability.
> >>
>As I said before ( KISS) keep it simple. Less to go wrong, and easier to
>maintain.
> Ryan
But does KISS mean we'll NEVER install dual ignition systems? Electronic
controlled fuel injection? All electric gyros? The need to consider and
fabricate reliable electrical systems goes far beyond the issue of
all electric fuel delivery. I would agree that a magneto is "easier"
to maintain . . . two bolts, 5 wires and you've got it out in your
hands . . . perhaps every few hundred hours. Electronic ignition may
have more pieces and more wires but it has a good probability of
running the lifetime of the airplane without being touched. If KISS
had been applied to all the other technologies in our lives we
would never have graduated beyond the horse as a means of communcation
and transportation.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tools Clinton Aircraft Tools |
In a message dated 1/29/98 4:31:10 AM, you wrote:
<>
I understand that Monica Lewinsky is quite fond of Clinton's tool.
Lloyd Morris
RV-6, fuselage
upply the box. Thanks again, Al
>
>writes:
>>
>>Ed,
>>I would like to buy the other two if I am first to respond. E-mail me
>>your
>>address and I'll send you a check. Al prober(at)iwaynet.net
>
>
>
>Hi Al, you are first, and they are yours. I posted the message last
>night, and this morning I already had 5 replies! This list is amazing.
>Enjoy the lights, I really like them. I wired the lights in parallel
>through a 200 ohm, 4 watt wire wound pot. Make sure you use this pot, a
>smaller one will burn up. The lights put out one watt each.
>
>
>Ed Bundy
>9103 Hanley Pl.
>Eagle, ID 83616
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
>Second question: I got some NAS1304-31 bolts cheap ($.50). Can I shorten
>them to -26 (requires cutting the thread further down the bolt too), if
>I smooth out out the end of the thread cut? Someone warned me that
>cutting the tread on aircraft bolts weakens then as the origianl thread
>was rolled not cut. However, do these spar bolts carry much tension? It
>would seem most of the load is in shear?
>
>Reason I bring this up is NAS1305-26 bolts from Van's are $3.50 or more
>a bolt (x16 = $56 or more) - money I'd rather use elsewhere.
>
Do Not, I repeat DO NOT cut additional threads in an AN bolt. You are
correct that AN bolts have rolled threads. Using a die will cut the threads
and result in sharp corners at the base of each thread instead of a radiused
corner. This is the definition of a stress concentration and these bolts
will most likely crack over time. The last bolts in your airplane that you
would want to mess with are the ones that connect the wings to the fuselage.
Just my .02.
Scott Gesele N506RV- Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malia Mondy <malia(at)truman.edu> |
| Subject: | Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
>Do some arithmetic on what that extra 100lbs will cost you though...
>here's some figuring I did recently regarding O320 vs O360...
>
>In the RVAtor that's online, there were only two -6s which gave
>weights: an O360 at 1058 and an O320 at 976. That's an 82lb
>difference... dunno how much of that is due to the heavier engine, but
>it doesn't really matter.
>
>Given a 210lb pilot and full fuel (38 gallons = 120???lbs), if I have
>a 976lb plane, at Gross (1600lbs) I have 294lbs available for luggage
>& passenger... ie another big guy, plus 40lbs luggage each... good
>enough for a weekend or more away. With the O360 plane, I have only
>212lb available... I can take a big guy and no luggage, or a 130lb
>blonde girl and some luggage (no room for pajamas though :-)
>
Okay, somebody enlighten the uninformed, low-time, wanna-build-an-RV-someday
pilot (that's me) -- You mean to tell me that if I want to carry heftier
loads (read that: pilot and/or passengers need to lose some weight) I need
the LESS-HEFTY engine?? That the heftier, more-HP O360 doesn't even make up
for its own extra weight over the O320??? Or are we just talking about
gross weight the airframe is rated for?
Malia Mondy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
<< ..........run a test wherein he put a couple of pieces of
aluminum with Proseal sandwiched between them into a container of mogas and
left it there for 2 years. At the end of this time, he took the test piece
out and found they came apart easily and the Proseal could be scraped off
with your fingernail almost like chewing gum. >>
Did that Mogas by chance have alcohol in it ? That could be the culprit. I
don't think the fuel by itself is much different as far as additives go, but I
am not a petrochemical engineer. any other opinions ?
Regards, Merle (CheRVrolet-4) Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Second question: I got some NAS1304-31 bolts cheap ($.50). Can I shorten
them to -26 (requires cutting the thread further down the bolt too), if
I smooth out out the end of the thread cut? Someone warned me that
cutting the tread on aircraft bolts weakens then as the origianl thread
was rolled not cut. However, do these spar bolts carry much tension? It
would seem most of the load is in shear?
Reason I bring this up is NAS1305-26 bolts from Van's are $3.50 or more
a bolt (x16 = $56 or more) - money I'd rather use elsewhere.
I don't know what the specs are for the NAS bolts, BUT I strongly urge
you to not cut down ANY aircraft bolts, especially for the spar
carry-through. Aircraft bolt threads are indeed rolled, not cut.
Cutting will weaken them, how much I have no idea, nor do I care. I
don't really think it matters what direction the load is applied, a
weakened bolt is just that, weaker than it should be.
I certainly agree with trying to save money when possible, but I think
this is false economy. For example, you will need to spend just shy of
$300 for the rubber mounts and bolts to attach your engine. Some of the
more critical stuff in airplane construction is rather pricey, but when
you consider what you're asking these parts to do, it doesn't seem quite
so bad.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt Brian J. Mork, 333-6044" <MorkBJ.DFC.USAFA(at)usafa.af.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery-Start Questions |
charset=US-ASCII
><< I have a relayed circuit (lifted from amateur radio operators who
> put sensitive radio gear into their cars) that automatically
> cuts out power to the avionics bus when power drops, and
> then when you restart, a button press brings the avionics bus
> back on line -- kind of like a "you can't accidently leave me
> on for the next start" circuit. >>
>
>This approach has too many single points of failure IMO.
Include a hardwired bypass that you "never use" unless the
above approach fails. If the above circuit fails, it will always
be from the operating to the power-off mode. Just engage the
bypass switch if and when this ever occurs. Ergometrically, this
can all be on one toggle switch:
Up is momentary "bring on line."
Center is normal ops position.
Down is harwire bypass of the circuit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ciswired.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Malia Mondy wrote:
> Okay, somebody enlighten the uninformed, low-time, wanna-build-an-RV-someday
> pilot (that's me) -- You mean to tell me that if I want to carry heftier
> loads (read that: pilot and/or passengers need to lose some weight) I need
> the LESS-HEFTY engine?? That the heftier, more-HP O360 doesn't even make up
> for its own extra weight over the O320??? Or are we just talking about
> gross weight the airframe is rated for?
Just before we go too far down this road, the difference in weight between
a typical O-320 and O-360 is about 10-15lbs, not 57 (or whatever it was).
The gross weight is the limiting factor here as I understand that the gross
weight for a typical RV is unchanged irrespective of what you have under
the cowl.
On the other hand, the gross weight of an experimental aircraft is whatever
the builder says it is, right?
greg
greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
| Subject: | Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
>Do some arithmetic on what that extra 100lbs will cost you
though...
>here's some figuring I did recently regarding O320 vs O360...
>
>In the RVAtor that's online, there were only two -6s which gave
>weights: an O360 at 1058 and an O320 at 976. That's an 82lb
>difference... dunno how much of that is due to the heavier
engine, but
>it doesn't really matter.
>
>Given a 210lb pilot and full fuel (38 gallons = 120???lbs), if
I have
>a 976lb plane, at Gross (1600lbs) I have 294lbs available for
luggage
>& passenger... ie another big guy, plus 40lbs luggage each...
good
>enough for a weekend or more away. With the O360 plane, I have
only
>212lb available... I can take a big guy and no luggage, or a
130lb
>blonde girl and some luggage (no room for pajamas though :-)
>
Okay, somebody enlighten the uninformed, low-time,
wanna-build-an-RV-someday
pilot (that's me) -- You mean to tell me that if I want to carry
heftier
loads (read that: pilot and/or passengers need to lose some
weight) I need
the LESS-HEFTY engine?? That the heftier, more-HP O360 doesn't
even make up
for its own extra weight over the O320??? Or are we just
talking about
gross weight the airframe is rated for?
Malia Mondy
Unless you can increase the gross weight the engine is only going to buy
you extra performance, not *necessarily* extra load carrying capacity.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Macintire" <dave_mac(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 builder needs major help |
VanArtsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
> I've mostly been a lurker on this list but I'm going to have to speak up
> now because I need some help. A little background first. I purchased a
> completed empanage kit and incomplete wing kit from a builder who gave
> up for lack of time. By doing this I didn't get to learn on the
> empanage--I'm now having to learn on the wing.
>
> Here are my problems:
> Left wing leading edge: I strapped down the leading edge skin and
> marked where the ribs were on the inside of the skin. I then removed
> the L/E skin and drilled the holes on the top side using a template I
> had made. This turned out to be a bad idea because my template wasn't
> just right. I then drew my black line on the rib flanges and strapped
> the skin back on. The holes I had drilled wandered a bit but I could
> see the black line on one side or other of the holes so I thought it
> would be okay. It mostly was. I went ahead and drilled the ribs using
> the holes in the strapped on skin as drill guides. When I removed the
> skin again to check the holes I had just drilled in the rib flanges I
> noticed two problems.
>
> Problem 1) The top two holes (as the wing sits in the jig) on three of
> the ribs are too close to the edge of the flange (as in microns). On
> two of the three ribs the top most hole completely missed the rib
> (despite the suggested offset -- Van's was right, I just screwed up).
>
> Problem 2) On one rib (this is also one of the ribs affected by problem
> 1) one rivet hole has been drilled right next to the spar. I mean
> *right* next to it.
>
> I know the purists out there will tell me to chalk it up as a learning
> experience and order new ribs and leading edge skin. While that is a
> possiblity that I may end up having to pursue, I would also like to see
> if anyone has any other sugestions. This is not going to be a show
> plane, I'm not too concerned with cosmetics. I just want a *safe*
> acceptable work around for my dilema.
>
> I have a couple of ideas that I will keep to myself because I want to
> see some other suggestions first. Then I'll bounce off the list what I
> had in mind and you guys can tell me if they are feasible or not.
>
> Many thanks in advance for any help anyone can provide!!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> Network and System Administrator
> Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
> Phone: 408-743-2224
> Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776
> Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com
>
Scott,
There are various fixes to this common problem. I believe I have seen a
post before (or maybe in the achives) that says the factory solution is
to remove part of the rib flange and fabricate a wider (wider is not
always better!) flange which the builder then rivets on the rib.
Comments from the list?
The main reason for posting this is to tell you to get help from
literally dozens of RV builders in the southern Cal area. Your
telephone area code indicates that you are from the San Jose area. I am
almost certain there is a builder nearby who can mentor you. If you are
not a member of a local EAA chapter, join one. They are fun and you
will find supportive members. Also, keep asking questions. The list
members are very helpful.
Dave Macintire
Orlando, FL
RV-6 RE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate e |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>Okay, somebody enlighten the uninformed, low-time, wanna-build-an-RV-someday
>pilot (that's me) -- You mean to tell me that if I want to carry heftier
>loads (read that: pilot and/or passengers need to lose some weight) I need
>the LESS-HEFTY engine?? That the heftier, more-HP O360 doesn't even make up
>for its own extra weight over the O320??? Or are we just talking about
>gross weight the airframe is rated for?
>
>Malia Mondy
>
The comparison involved two airplanes with more differences than just the
engine. The weight difference between an 0-320 and O-360 is minimal. On
the order of eight pounds or so.
And yes, maximum recommended gross weight does not change with engine
differences or other weight differences so any weight added decreases
useful load.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Tip-Up Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Exhaust Cracking. |
>
> Is your exhaust system braced back to the engine? It should not be
> braced to the airframe or engine mount, this promotes cracking.
I have a High Country crossover system and after hearing from several
people that they braced the pipes aft of the ball joints to the engine
mount without adverse affects, I called Larry Vetterman to ask him about
this. He told me that it's not a bad way to go, as long as you use some
sort of rubber shock mount. He said that in fact the ball joints will
be less likely to freeze up if mounted this way since they will work a
little more. He said that bracing them to the sump works fine too ("6
of one, half dozen of the other" were his exact words...)
I'm going to brace them a to couple of sump bolts (with shock mounts of
course), but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Note that the above only applies to the pipes aft of the ball joints.
I'm sure you'd NEVER want to brace any fixed portion of the exhaust
system to the engine mount....!
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
<http://www.edt.com/homewing>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Tools Clinton Aircraft Tools |
Some of you need to check on your children - I think they are using your email
to send out messages.
>
> I understand that Monica Lewinsky is quite fond of Clinton's tool.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
<< The last bolts in your airplane that you
would want to mess with are the ones that connect the wings to the fuselage.
>>
Agreed! Finn, get the right bolts. Your butt is worth it.
Now, a question for the structural engineers on the list: It would seem that
these fasteners, like most in these airframes we build, are in shear. The
special thing about these NAS bolts is that they are close tolerance in
diameter. How would cutting the threads a bit longer, or chasing them with a
die (if you might have slipped with a hammer), make any structural difference?
I'd say that the only tensile force on these bolts would be from the torque of
the nut. It would seem that a well fitted taper pin would work just as good
here. I suppose my lack of structural analysis education might be showing a
bit here...Is there a twisting force (trying to pop these bolts out) on the
spar carry-thru as well?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Extra Cowl for RV6 |
I am looking for an RV6/6A cowl someone may have laying around. It
doesn't have to be in great condition, I'm going to cut it up anyway
(read experiment). I can pay $200 if interested.
Send message off list
Cecil Hatfield
cecilth(at)juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
Hi all,
Frank van der Hulst has taken some trouble and time to help me understand what
I am getting into with a Chevy conversion, but...
I weigh 165 and will set my gross at 1800 or more.
> Given a 210lb pilot and full fuel (38 gallons = 120???lbs), if I have
> a 976lb plane, at Gross (1600lbs) I have 294lbs available for luggage
Aerobatics, man?? Whuzzat?? I'll try some but my wife hates steep turns and
says if I should ever do so much as a barrel roll while she is in the plane, it
will be her last flight with me. And I don't know any blondes.
> Aerobatics-wise, with me flying, gives 1340 - 210 = 1130lbs for plane,
I can build a Chevy that will weigh less than stock and produce 300hp but for
starters I'll be rather stock at probably 220 hp. In any case, I don't expect
performance to be any worse than an O-360 with a passenger.
> Bear in mind also that heavier weights mean longer landing and (unless
> offset by more power) takeoff distances.
Actually, Frank, if I remember right weight has very little effect on range.
At any rate, my range would be as if I had an O360 and a passenger or extra
baggage. Something I am working on is just how do BFSC's compare for the V6
and the O360. Greg Travis, one of the few people I have heard say that the
Lycoming might do as well as a Chevy V6 on fuel consumption told me that the
data he has seen is not very reliable. I have some published test figures
showing a V8 producing BFSC's of 0.38 lbs per hp per hour but I can't say how
reliable they are either. The V6 is 3/4ths of the V8. I will have the option
of flying higher because of the addded horsies. That means that I will often
be up where the winds are with me.
>I guess that to carry that
> extra weight, you would also either need to use more power (and
> therefore more fuel) for the same airspeed, or the same power for a
> lower airspeed. In either case, you lose range.
Finally, it is an experiment. It may not work. These engines push trucks
along the freeways into the wind with travel trailers at sea level putting our
100% for hours on end. I wouldn't think of running my Deb's Continental at
say, 1000 msl at 100% power for more than a minute or two.
Anyway, Frank, thanks for the advice. By the way, how's your glass cockpit
work going?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
Gross weight is what I say it is.
Someone said that Van once gave an okay to 1840 for the RV6.
In my Deb, if I get an STC to put in a bigger engine (I can go from present
225hp to 300 hp for a mere $45,000), I will have a higher gross weight limit.
Several factors affect what gross weight should be set at, I believe.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> The gross weight is the limiting factor here as I understand that the gross
> weight for a typical RV is unchanged irrespective of what you have under
> the cowl.
>
> On the other hand, the gross weight of an experimental aircraft is whatever
> the builder says it is, right?
>
> greg
>
> greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
Listers,
I got a nice set of builder's notes this morning. One thing that caught
my interest was the fact that this builder decided to not install the
canopy ejection on his -6A. I had thought about this myself and felt it
needed looking into. However, the archive program seems to be failing
for me today. How about you -6A tip up builders. Did you install the
ejection system, or not?
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (Building panel structure. About to assemble engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt Brian J. Mork, 333-6044" <MorkBJ.DFC.USAFA(at)usafa.af.mil> |
| Subject: | re:Smooth surfaces required? |
Jon wrote:
>>Okay. I give in. This question intrigues me. Unless it's a fracture
>>or crack (maybe drilling a stop hole would be an example), *removing*
>>material seems to never strengthen a metal. It would seem the
>>ridges, lines, ruffles, machining fly-cut marks, etc would be wasted
>>weight, but how would they actually weaken the piece?
>
>If and when a crack or break occurs, it will start at a nick, scratch or
>some kind of blemish. Any kind of sharp edge is a place where stress
will
>concentrate. The stress concentrated there will sometimes exceed the
>strength of the material, causing a failure. By removing scratches,
machine
>marks and the like (to a point), there will be "stress raisers" for stress
>to concentrate. Thus, the stress is distributed more evenly along the
piece.
I believe by faith. I'll keep things smooth.
---
"Standard disclaimer applies" - PGP key available via my web page.
Brian J. Mork, 4504-C W. Juniper, USAFA, CO 80840
Mork@USA.Net, or http://www.pcisys.net/~mork/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
>
>
><< The last bolts in your airplane that you
> would want to mess with are the ones that connect the wings to the fuselage.
> >>
>Agreed! Finn, get the right bolts. Your butt is worth it.
>
>Now, a question for the structural engineers on the list: It would seem that
>these fasteners, like most in these airframes we build, are in shear. The
>special thing about these NAS bolts is that they are close tolerance in
>diameter. How would cutting the threads a bit longer, or chasing them with a
>die (if you might have slipped with a hammer), make any structural
difference?
Did some digging around in the specs and offer the following:
NAS1304 and NAS1305 bolts are the same genre . . . the 1304 is
.250" diam, the 1305 is .3125" diam. They are called, "Bolt, Shear -
Hexagon Head". The NAS spec has been superceded by NAS660x where
the "x" in 130x and 660x are interchageable.
While not super bolts, they are 4140 steel with a tensile range
of 160-180 KSI tensile and 95 KSI shear.
>I'd say that the only tensile force on these bolts would be from the
torque of
>the nut. It would seem that a well fitted taper pin would work just as good
>here. I suppose my lack of structural analysis education might be showing a
>bit here...Is there a twisting force (trying to pop these bolts out) on the
>spar carry-thru as well?
Unless the design is controled to specifically limit tension stress,
(belville washers, cushions or other compressive devices) I would suppose
the bolts are TORQUED to some clamp-up specification. Given that no
material is INelastic, dynamic flight loads on a structure held together
by a shear fastener have to modulate the tension forces as well. Without
a very careful analysis of the design, it's risky to fiddle with the
designer's original selections. My observations of most designers
attitudes toward amateur builders is to add the usual 50% saftey factor
and the DOUBLE it . . . (ever wonder how Burt's personal Long-EZ came out
100 pounds lighter than most amateur built versions?)
Your question is a good one and with competent analysis may yield an
answer favorable to the desire to modify or substitute the fasteners.
I preach failure tolerant design in electrical systems as being pretty
easy to do . . . wing spars are MUCH harder. I think I'd stick to the
drawings.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab |
<19980111.123150.9510.0.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
> If the final cut is only 1/8" it makes a very nice
>tight curl with little resistance to the shearing action and just
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
Tell the boss that needs to be in the Manuel. Very good point.
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab |
halk(at)sybase.com wrote:
> > Literally *everyone* I have spoken with has done the trim
> > tab twice.
There must have been changes... on my emp (#24692, Mar 96), the trim
tab was already cut out.
> I was unhappy with the results of my trim tab construction but installed it
> anyway. I made a little rib rather than try to fold in the ends and it is
> *SAFE* but not as pretty as I'd like. What I am going to do is replace it
> someday in the future, after it is flying.
I folded the ends in... no big problem. Also not as pretty as I'd
like, but I'll decide after it's flying whether to replace it or not.
Actually, there's not a lot of bits that *are* as pretty as I'd like,
but they're all adequate. Come to think of it, that pretty much
describes *me*. :-)
> > Maybe I should go head and order a second one now and call the one
> in
> > the kit a practice piece?
>
> My entire RV6A (Valentine) is a "practice piece".
Yup... it's a learning experience. My *next* RV-6 will be much better
:-)
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Pumps ONLY |
<< But does KISS mean we'll NEVER install dual ignition systems? Electronic
controlled fuel injection? All electric gyros? The need to consider and
fabricate reliable electrical systems goes far beyond the issue of
all electric fuel delivery. I would agree that a magneto is "easier"
to maintain . . . two bolts, 5 wires and you've got it out in your
hands . . . perhaps every few hundred hours. Electronic ignition may
have more pieces and more wires but it has a good probability of
running the lifetime of the airplane without being touched. If KISS
had been applied to all the other technologies in our lives we
would never have graduated beyond the horse as a means of communcation
and transportation.
Bob . . . >>
I guess I should have been a little more clear. I do believe in keeping
things as simple as possible. In this this particular statement I was refering
to the fuel system. The mechanical pump provides a reliable source for fuel
pressure and is already incorporated on the engine. Building a system to be as
reliable electrically will take more time, and money. Once you have gone to
the trouble to make a system as good with 2 electric pumps you are no better
off then you were to start with.
As far as the mag goes, I agree with you. I have purchased an electronic
ignition for my bird. But nothing has changed, I still have a mag to back me
up in the event of a failure. In other words I dont have to build in a back up
system, its already there. Still simple.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
>,
> I would tell you I've used Auto Gas ( only Ammco) for 6 yrs, going
on 700
> hrs.
> in both tanks with absolutely no problems. But I don't want 50 other
know- it-
(snip)
Thanks, I enjoyed the note ! This is getting interesting and just
the kind of stuff I like to hear.......Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: auto fuel eats pro-seal? |
----------
:
> One aspect of the mogas discussion is missing: did this tester change the
gas
> on a, say, weekly basis? I'm not too sure what compound would be in a jar
> after two years, but I'd bet it only resembled mogas.
> This could be a factor in the deterioration of the sealant.
Good point Mark ! valid food for thought...Thanks again.....Austin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ciswired.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998, Hal Kempthorne wrote:
> At any rate, my range would be as if I had an O360 and a passenger or extra
> baggage. Something I am working on is just how do BFSC's compare for the V6
> and the O360. Greg Travis, one of the few people I have heard say that the
> Lycoming might do as well as a Chevy V6 on fuel consumption told me that the
> data he has seen is not very reliable. I have some published test figures
> showing a V8 producing BFSC's of 0.38 lbs per hp per hour but I can't say
> how reliable they are either. The V6 is 3/4ths of the V8. I will have
> the option of flying higher because of the addded horsies. That means
> that I will often be up where the winds are with me.
Hal,
That's not exactly what I said. What I said (in greatly expanded form)
is that:
1. I have dyno data from Ford's test cell showing a 75% power
BSFC from a Ford V6 (injected engine of 200HP) Duratec of
0.46 (of course this is not the Chevy engine). This data was
given to me by Ford's David Hunt at the request of
a Ford Vice President.
2. I have dyno data from Lycoming's test cell showing a four
cylinder IO-360 (200 HP, injected too) with a 75% power
BSFC of 0.43 WITHOUT LASAR injection and 0.38-0.40 WITH
LASAR injection. This is at best-economy mixture. This data
was given to me by both Unison (Brad Mottier) as well as
Lycoming (Rick Moffit)
3. Although I don't believe that the Chevy V6 engine can compete
with the Lycoming in terms of turning fuel into shaft power,
especially with the PSRU efficiency "hit," I am open to the
suggestion that the Chevy is more efficient INSTALLED due to
(possibly) lower cooling drag as well as a more efficient
(slower turning) prop.
The Ford tests were done under the later SAE environmental standards and
need to have approximately 0.01BSFC subtracted to compare with the
aircraft engine numbers.
I would also like to add:
a. Typically, on a Lycoming, fuel injection gives you about
0.02BSFC points over carburetion (although that is likely to
change with GAMIjectors for Lycomings).
b. The 200HP IO-360, with its hemi heads, high compression, and just four
cylinders has the opportunity to be one of the, if not the, most fuel-
efficient aircraft engines out there.
c. I am willing to believe that a Duratec engine could have its fuel
consumption numbers improved via a custom cam and some other tweaks
appropriate to the aerospace mission. However, I find it hard to believe
that the Chevy V6 is, out of the box, 0.08BSFC better than a cousin
auto engine. In other words, I find a BSFC of 0.38 for the Chevy
WAY OUT THERE.
Here I will say that I will pay $1000.00 to anyone who demonstrates a
lower fuel burn, in any RV-6, for the Chevy engine vs. an injected 200HP
Lycoming where both engines are operated at their best-economy mixture.
This is, of course, at equivalent payload weights, airspeeds, and ambient
temperatures. Best economy mixture determined as the point at which the
first cylinder peaks its EGT. And, of course, the test is in the SAME
airframe each time. Fuel flow measurement via fuel flowmeter (i.e. not
fuel pressure or how much she took at the pump).
greg
greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
halk(at)sybase.com wrote:
> Frank van der Hulst has taken some trouble and time to help me
> understand what I am getting into with a Chevy conversion, but...
I actually wrote most of that as part of a discussion with Jim Hurd. I
tried to find out the difference in weights between an O320 and O360
and couldn't find any numbers, so resorted to comparing two aircraft
from the online copy of the RVator. I'm happy to accept Greg Travis's
assertion that the weight difference is only 10-15lbs (I'd guessed
45lbs) between those two engines. Clearly the weight difference
between the two aircraft was due to extra paint, upholstery,
instruments, whatever. Which means that in terms of weight alone
there's not a lot to choose from between an O320 and an O360.
However, I posted to the list in response to a comment that with Chevy
engines it's possible to spend a few hundred dollars to save 100lbs or
so in weight. For pilots (especially heavy ones) who want to take a
passenger cross-country, it may be worth paying the extra bucks up
front to get range. Similarly, for (heavy) pilots who want to take a
passenger for aerobatics, it might be a good trade-off.
I notice that Jess Meyers? (BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com) is on the list. Jess
(and other auto-conversions flying (Ed Anderson, anyone else?)...
1. What does your aircraft weigh?
2. What have you set Gross and Aerobatic weight limits at?
3. How does your firewall-forward weight compare with a Lycoming?
> I weigh 165 and will set my gross at 1800 or more.
What you set your Gross at is irrelevant, unless there's some reason
why you can set your Gross at 1800 when you have a Chevy, but can't do
that with a Lyc?
> Actually, Frank, if I remember right weight has very little effect on
> range.
Lift isn't free... you're lifting more weight, and must pay for it
somehow.
> At any rate, my range would be as if I had an O360 and a passenger or extra
> baggage.
If you're happy with that, then fine.
An archive search will show that I am NOT anti auto-conversions. The
opposite, in fact... I still have a vague plan to put a Mazda 13B into
my -6. But, when it comes time to make that decision, the engine
weight and my planned mission (cross-country, aerobatics) for the
aircraft will be important factors.
> I will have the option
> of flying higher because of the addded horsies. That means that I will
> often be up where the winds are with me.
Absolutely. However,
1. Sometime the winds will be agin you (Murphy says "More often than
not" :-()
2. It takes time and fuel to climb. Heavier planes climb slower.
3. If you have less range, you'll do more landings, and therefore need
to climb more often. Or you could add an inflight refueling probe :-)
> Finally, it is an experiment. It may not work.
Yup. I'm happy for you to try it. However, I think it's important to
be aware of the significance of this decision.
> Anyway, Frank, thanks for the advice.
Hey, it's worth what you paid for it :-)
> By the way, how's your glass cockpit work going?
Too busy wing-building to do much about it. I'm still collecting data,
information, etc. I reckon that by the time I get close to doing the
panel, there'll be another generation of micros out there. And maybe
Rutan Jr will have released the specs for his stuff.
Winter plans include doing a little work on the GPS/mapping end of
things, plus work on DIY capacitance-type fuel senders, landing
lights, and/or strobes.
Finally, it is an experiment. It may not work.
Frank. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
<< How about you -6A tip up builders. Did you install the
ejection system, or not?
>>
Jim,
I installed the ejection system simply because it allowed easier removal and
installation of the canopy. In five years of flying I have removed it twice,
but it sure came in handy. What I did different though was that I mounted the
release handle to a small sub panel below the main panel. This provided a lot
more room on the main panel and allowed me to move all my 3 1/8" instruments
up as high as possible. If you'd like more info on how to accomplish this mod
let me know.
Rick McBride
rickrv6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
----------
> From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
> To: rv-list
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly
> Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 5:42 PM
>
>
> Jim,
I thought long and hard about whether or not to install the quick release.
I decided to install it.
1. I'm using the gas struts to hold the canopy open. I thought that this
would mean that the quick release would not work anyhow since the struts
would prevent the canopy from departing the fuselage.
2. Just for jollies, I tried to install the canopy with 1/4 inch bolts
instead of the quick release mechanism. It was a royal pain in the neck
(literally). I've talked to other builders that have been able to do this,
but I was not. Not only is it very difficult to get up under the panel to
insert the bolts, there is very little space for a wrench to tighten the
nut on the bolt.
3. I chose to use the quick release with the gas struts.
good luck
Bob
RV-6 cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: On-Line Rvator |
----------
>
>"...resorted to comparing two aircraft from the online copy of the
RVator."
How do you access the "online copy of the RVator"??????
Thanks,
Bob
RV-6 cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
> I am ready for my tools for my QB -6a...which tools do I REALLY need at
> first? I do not want to buy 1,000.00 worth of tools to begin. Could I get
> away with a gun, sets, bucking bars, and deburring tool? (I already have a
> compressor)
>
> Do I need a dimpler right away?
I have trapped myself with this kind of thinking before... slaving
away for hours with a hacksaw tapering my HS stiffeners. Now, I've
found that a jigsaw and an angle grider are worth having, so I've
bought them. If I'd bought them early on instead of later, I could
have saved myself a lot of work.
OTOH, I would probably have bought a whole lot of tools I'd only use
once, and in the process, found I couldn't afford to buy the empennage
kit for another 6 months.
Catch-22... it's only *after* you've used a tool *and* done the same
job without the tool that you know whether the tool was worth using or
not.
Anyway, to answer(?) your question... Dunno what order you tackle
stuff on the QB. But, I'll guess that you'll need a dimpler fairly
soon (and fairly often). If you can get tools quickly (say within a
day or two) it's maybe worth buying tools 'Just In Time'. If there's a
long lead time or high price on each tool order (like for me, being
outside the USA) then the 'cost' of not having a tool on hand may be a
week or two when you're unable to work on your project. Of course,
that time can be used profitably painting the fence, mowing the lawn,
etc.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
I'm not there yet, as my fuselage is still upside down in the jig. I
understand that the canopy jettison mechanism is useful not only for
getting out of the plane in an emergency, but also when you are on the
ground and want to work on the gadgets in your panel. I will follow the
plans (if I can figure them out!) and put it in.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Puzzling over the plans for the bottom skins on the RV-6A.
-----Original Message-----How about you -6A tip up builders.
Did you install the
ejection system, or not?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
> If memory serves me right I remember that Van changed the type of
> tank sealer back in the 80's because there was a problem with
> compatibility with some of the additives in auto fuel.
With the removal of lead from auto fuel there's all kinds of other
chemicals being added. Here in NZ, when unleaded was phased in, lots
of cars (and petrol pumps) had problems with O-ring seals failing. The
high aromatic (benzene-like substances) content caused the rubber to
swell. This first became widespread knowledge when a homebuilt
aircraft running mogas had leaks in its fuel system, and the CAA
banned all mogas use in aircraft. Dunno whether they've since made it
legal again or not.
Be cautious with auto fuel. What works for one guy may not for
another... Mogas composition varies from winter to summer. Who knows
what is in the mogas from one US state to another? From one year to
the next?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
> I am ready for my tools for my QB -6a...which tools do I REALLY need at
> first?
With the QB you can work for quite a long time (tho not in the manual's
suggested order) with just:
Safety equipment!
Steel measure / ruler or clear plastic
Sharpies
Drill bits #30 & #40 & 3/16"
Hand drill elec or better, air - a $99 drill press would be nice!
Clecos 150 silver & 50 copper
Cleco pliers.
One sheet metal snips, yellow
4" or larger bench vise
File 8 inch mill bastard
3/4 in step drill bit
wrenches (1/4 ratchet set +), pliers, screwdrivers
coarse rat tail file
cut-off wheel arbor
hammer any kind but ball pein preferred - 10 or 12 oz
Basically what you do is leave dimpling & riveting till last.
rivet gun - 2x is all that is needed
C frame tool
1/8 and 3/32 dimple tools
1/8 round head rivet tools
flat rivet tools
bucking bar 2?
micro countersink tool
pop rivet tool
Now you have enough, as best I can remember, to build your QB. Especially
since you already have compressor and probably lotsa other tools. Wood tools
work great cutting aluminum. I've made heavy use of table saw and planer
blade.
Soon you will realize that you are wasting precious time & buy the power tools.
There are many tools that make quicker but aren't essential for good work...
rivet fan
strap duplicators
power cleco tool
power dimpler
die grinder
band saw
hand rivet & dimple pliers
power buffer with scotch brite wheel
hand drill scotch brite tools
bench grinder
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Holes in firewall |
How are people cutting the the larger diameter holes in the
firewall, the ones up to 1" and larger, that need to accomodate
grommets for controls, etc?
I have heard that the Unibits that large have two flutes and as a
result are hard to control. I have a 1" hole saw that "says" it's
for metal or wood, but it has pretty coarse teeth and I hesitate to
try it on stainless.
What have others done?
Randall Henderson
randall(at)edt.com
<http://www.edt.com/homewing>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Kerr <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
>
>>I guess that to carry that
>> extra weight, you would also either need to use more power (and
>> therefore more fuel) for the same airspeed, or the same power for a
>> lower airspeed. In either case, you lose range.
>
>Finally, it is an experiment. It may not work. These engines push trucks
>along the freeways into the wind with travel trailers at sea level putting
>our
>100% for hours on end. I wouldn't think of running my Deb's Continental at
>say, 1000 msl at 100% power for more than a minute or two.
>
Is it true that the Chevy engine in question is putting out 100% power?
These trucks are geared to run at 65mph at 100% power in some gear?
I remember from youth that Riva boats used Chrysler Marine V8's which were
considerably beefier than the auto versions - due to their' having to put
out 80-100% power for hours on end.
So this Chevy isn't built like a "mere" car engine?
Just for fun: Mitsubishi put some cheap parts in the 3000GT twin turbo for
the US market. Not for the German market, where they figured people would
drive fast all day (not 100% power by a long shot, though). In the US the
engine was built as a stoplight special. They told me "all modern engines
are built that way" - built to fail at some Market-Research-Driven point.
Anyway,
Just wondering - Ian
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
>John C Darby Jr.
>RV6 N61764 sold
>Stephenville TX
>
Will you build another?
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Right Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Kerr <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
>
>Be cautious with auto fuel. What works for one guy may not for
>another... Mogas composition varies from winter to summer. Who knows
>what is in the mogas from one US state to another? From one year to
>the next?
>
>Frank.
Good point, California mogas is different. Don't know how, exactly, but it
was supposed to rot out fuel lines. I believe BMW had a recall to replace
them with different ones. Be careful.
-Ian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT8127(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RE: Exhaust Cracking |
Hello Listers,
Thanks for all the info. I have the exh. pipe off and welded (again). If she
fails me again, I will order a new set of Vetterman's. Broken exhaust manifold
pipe(s) are no place to cut any corners. Thanks again, Gary and N5AJ
RV-3 , slider, 160 hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
Its not really an ejection system like an F16 or something, its simply a
panel mounted lever that allow you to easily remove the canopy for
maintenance purposes. In fact, the way they are designed now, it would
be impossible to blow the canopy off in flight, unless you modify the
design.
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tools Clinton Aircraft Tools |
Oh, come on, I heard worse then that on the radio this morning. He made
me laugh.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 HS
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>
> Some of you need to check on your children - I think they are using your email
> to send out messages.
>
> >
> > I understand that Monica Lewinsky is quite fond of Clinton's tool.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: On-Line Rvator |
robert.cabe(at)usaa.com wrote:
> >"...resorted to comparing two aircraft from the online copy of the
> RVator."
>
> How do you access the "online copy of the RVator"??????
I *knew* I should have clarified that at the time.
Following links from Vans Web page http://www.vansaircraft.com you can
get to http://www.vansaircraft.com/sections/get-rva2.htm which
includes the December 1996 RVATOR. No photos.
Scott McD, You might like to tell Van that I would love for Vans to
publish all the RVATORs on the Web. :-)
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
NAS11XX are close tolerance "shear" bolts and NAS13XX are close tolerance
"tension" bolts. I think the size diameter tolerances would be the same.
The proper ream size for a NAS1306 is .3740 which is .0005 smaller than the
maximum diameter but .0005 more than the minimum diameter. I can't locate
the ream size for NAS1104 or NAS1304 bolts, but the size listed for this
bolt in my Aircraft Spruce Catalog is .2495, not .3120 which is for the
NAS1105. In either size, I would still use a.0005 smaller reamer, not .0005
larger, as you will have a loose fit (.0015) if your bolt size is the
maximum .0010 undersize.
I also agree with others that you should not cut off the bolts and cut new
threads.
I would also suggest that you contact Van's support team about any unclear
instructions regarding spar bolt sizes, etc.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>Plans versus drawing #6 is a bit unclear as to the proper size.
>
>Aircraft Spruce lists specs for NAS1104 bolts as .3120 + 0, -0.001, but
>what are the specs for the NAS1304 bolts? What's the difference between
>NAS11xx and NAS13xx anyway?
>
>I drilled/reamed out one hole with a .3125 reamer, and bolt went in with
>a faily light tap on the head.
>
>
>Second question: I got some NAS1304-31 bolts cheap ($.50). Can I shorten
>them to -26 (requires cutting the thread further down the bolt too), if
>I smooth out out the end of the thread cut? Someone warned me that
>cutting the tread on aircraft bolts weakens then as the origianl thread
>was rolled not cut. However, do these spar bolts carry much tension? It
>would seem most of the load is in shear?
>
>Reason I bring this up is NAS1305-26 bolts from Van's are $3.50 or more
>a bolt (x16 = $56 or more) - money I'd rather use elsewhere.
>
>
>Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
This listing is for an RV4 builder who doesn't have internet access:
Mark Spry, Elkmont, AL 205-732-4657 (evenings)
Steel fuselage jig for RV4. Excellent workmanship. Call for info and
price. (North Alabama)
Sam Buchanan (wing kit at the Roadway terminal!!)
sbuc(at)traveller.com
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
mately the same bending
load.Kinda of like a wing spar in gusty conditions. Which one breaks first?
Do you wish to fly with a spar that has notches?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
>Here I will say that I will pay $1000.00 to anyone who demonstrates a
>lower fuel burn, in any RV-6, for the Chevy engine vs. an injected 200HP
>Lycoming where both engines are operated at their best-economy mixture.
>greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
Sorry Greg, but I'm really busy taking up the $10,000,000 challenge to
design an earth orbiting rocket, you know, that "X" challenge that Burt
Rutan is also taking on so your challenge will have to wait! :-) Al
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pmartin Compaq" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WI builder group |
Dear Jeff,
I am in Green Bay and am building an RV8. I am now installing the floor
boards etc in the fuselage. I am interested in a Wis builder group.
I can be contacted at;
Martin Hardware
1221 E. Mason st
Green Bay, Wis
920 432 4845 mornings
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
----------
> From: jorear(at)mari.net
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: WI builder group
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 5:12 PM
>
>
> Count me in on a proposed WI builder's group. I'm located in Peshtigo,
> 45mi NE of Green Bay (I *still* love my Packers....sniff!) and sometimes
> feel like I'm The Lone Riveter. Let me know what I can do to help out
> if you need help.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Orear
> RV 6A HS hangin' on the wall, VS close behind
> jorear(at)mari.net
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Holes in firewall |
posted by: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
>
>How are people cutting the the larger diameter holes in the firewall
I haven't cut any holes yet, but consider the greenlee punches from your
Electrician type friends. They can be borrowed at low cost.
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load (engine and prop weights) |
<< That the heftier, more-HP O360 doesn't even make up
for its own extra weight over the O320??? >>
The O-360 weighs about 10 lbs more than the O-320 in the same configuration.
Use of the Sky-Tec starter saves 10 lbs. The Hartzell c/s prop is almost 40
lbs heavier than the average fixed pitch woody. Then, there can be a lot of
difference in the weight of the panel goodies. And how about that new
epoxy/glass cowl?
Weight is weight and the more you save elsewhere by saving an ounce a day, the
more "useful load" you can safely carry. BTW, you as the builder establish
the gross weight.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hole in your Cowl |
donspawn(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
> Will:
> I never saw any comments on your fuel pump/cowl problem. Have you got any
> other problem with the H2AD fitting in the Cowl? What did you come up
> with.
Don, I now have two holes in my top cowl...one to accommodate the fuel pump mount
and
one opposite it to accommodate what someone told me was a constant speed provision.
Since they are opposite each other, I will have two symetrical teardrop blisters
on my
cowl. I could possible have avoided cutting the cowl by allowing it to be about
1/2"
high at the spinner but that would not be desirable.
The size of the blisters may depend on whether I install an engine driven fuel
pump or
not. I am considering two electric fuel pumps and no engine driven fuel pump.
This
would greatly shorten the plumbing to the carb and keep the fuel lines away from
high
heat. The second electric pump would be a backup with its own power source. ANR
headset should quieten an electric fuel pump which I understand is somewhat noisy.
I have read on the list of problems in baffling the H2AD so additional challenges
loom.
Thanks to all who posted.
Will Cretsinger
-6A at Grand Prairie TX airport
Still working the cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Extra Cowl for RV6 |
<19980129.102653.21415.0.cecilth(at)juno.com>
| From: | tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
I have a RV6 cowl for a fixed pitch prop. I had to buy a new cowl since
I'm using a constant speed prop. Where are you
located? I live in NY State about 75 miles north of NY City.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
>RV6/6A cowl someone may have laying around. It
>doesn't have to be in great condition, I'm going to cut it up anyway
>(read experiment). I can pay $200 if interested.
>
>Send message off list
>Cecil Hatfield cecilth(at)juno.com
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get
>completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Holes in firewall |
| From: | "Mike Kukulski" <kukulski(at)highfiber.com> |
Randall Henderson asked:
>How are people cutting the the larger diameter holes in the
>firewall, the ones up to 1" and larger, that need to accomodate
>grommets for controls, etc?
Unibit is the way to go here after drilling a pilot hole. I tried both
Unibit and hole saws (required for my cabin heat holes) and the Unibit is
much easier to control and cuts the stainless more efficiently. Use a heavy
duty 1/2 inch drill as well at slow speed to drive the Unibit.
Mike Kukulski
RV-4 N96MK
Albuquerque, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 builder needs major help |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Problem 1) The top two holes (as the wing sits in the jig) on three of
>the ribs are too close to the edge of the flange (as in microns). On
>two of the three ribs the top most hole completely missed the rib
>(despite the suggested offset -- Van's was right, I just screwed up).
>
Assuming that when you laid out the holes in the skin that the are in a
straight line and perpendicular to the spar, you could do a little more
fluting (straightening) on the offending ribs only on the side that the
flange was missed and try again (since you already have holes next to the
edge on a couple you could try and bias in a little closer to the web to
have good edge distance).
>Problem 2) On one rib (this is also one of the ribs affected by
>problem
>1) one rivet hole has been drilled right next to the spar. I mean
>*right* next to it.
If that's the case then you probably barely hit the rib flange also.
You could possibly trim away a small portion of the rib flange were the
hole is and then fill just the skin hole with a rivet. Then drill a new
replacement hole higher on the rib to replace it. To fill the hole I
would use a 1097 3-3 rivet and double flush it on both sides. If you did
it by back riveting it will probably be nearly unnoticeable.
>
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv-6a sliding canopy |
| From: | lastchance4(at)Juno.com (JOHN F ANDERSON) |
Prior to installing the plastic canopy on the metal frame, the rollers
worked o.k. Now that the plastic is installed the rollers slide instead
of rolling. If i push the canopy in from the side the rollers work
fine.Any suggesting on how to fix the problem without removing the
plastic from the frame.
Jack Anderson
Boulder City, Nv
rv-6a flying but not painted
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Holes in firewall |
<19980129.215957.2927.1.donspawn(at)juno.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>
>>How are people cutting the the larger diameter holes in the firewall
>I haven't cut any holes yet, but consider the greenlee punches from
>your
>Electrician type friends. They can be borrowed at low cost.
>
Randall, I have some greenlee punches and they do work great.
Give me a call if you need to use them.
Scott
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 builder needs major help |
Scott
I belong to chapter 20 in San Carlos. The rv4 is the most popular plane in
that chapter. The guys in the club are very helpful. Ide be happy to connect
you with some of them if you want,. Ide help you myself, but Iam just starting
the wings myself soo you ahead of me. I also have an extra set of leading
edge skins.
Call me if you want.
Mark Van Nuys
650 363 1601 wk
650 571 5243 hm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab-AND CHANGES TO MANUAL |
<19980111.123150.9510.0.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com> <19980129.135452.16087.4.donspawn(at)juno.com>
>RV-List message posted by: donspawn(at)juno.com: If the final cut is only 1/8" it
makes a >very nice tight curl with little resistance to the shearing action
and just . . .
>Then Don Jordan writes to Scott McDaniels: "Tell the boss that needs to be in
the Manuel. >Very good point."
I agree it should be in manual. "It" is a good example of at least a
dozen or more other kinds of tips that could be in the manual, to reduce
"re-inventing the wheel", or, more to the point, "reduce repeating
mistakes" and "reducing time spent studying/calling".
All my calls suggesting changes result in good guidance, but laced with
the standard, "Just study harder, you're doing this for education, not
just to build your cross-country dream machine. And, the manual will
get too big, etc, etc." - or something to that effect (other than "the
effect" of getting improvements to the manual).
David Carter, Nederland, TX; HS stab skeleton: Shortening H405 and H608
ribs about 1/16inch (by rebending fwd end tabs a bit) - so fwd spar
flange hole centerlines will show in center of prepunched skin holes -
using measurements from pp skin (dist between centerline on aft spar and
fwd spar plus dist up to top of rib (4.8/16ths), using an 18" metal
ruler clamped accurately on rib to show distance from hole in aft spar
to top (in jig) of rib/tab, so can bend and see results instantly and
get it right before re-clamping fwd spar on again for final check.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Holes in firewall |
>
>How are people cutting the the larger diameter holes in the
>firewall, the ones up to 1" and larger, that need to accomodate
>grommets for controls, etc?
>
>I have heard that the Unibits that large have two flutes and as a
>result are hard to control. I have a 1" hole saw that "says" it's
>for metal or wood, but it has pretty coarse teeth and I hesitate to
>try it on stainless.
>
>What have others done?
>
>Randall Henderson
Randall,
I have been using the Unibits with good results up to .75 ". I use copious
cutting fluid. For holes larger than this I have been using a carbide burr
in my die grinder. It makes a worse noise than rivetting but seems fairly
easy to control.
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
>
>I'm about to ream out the main spar center holes.
>
>Plans versus drawing #6 is a bit unclear as to the proper size.
>
>Aircraft Spruce lists specs for NAS1104 bolts as .3120 + 0, -0.001, but
>what are the specs for the NAS1304 bolts? What's the difference between
>NAS11xx and NAS13xx anyway?
>
>I drilled/reamed out one hole with a .3125 reamer, and bolt went in with
>a faily light tap on the head.
>
>I know there was a discussion of this a while back but couldn't access
>the archives.
>
>Second question: I got some NAS1304-31 bolts cheap ($.50). Can I shorten
>them to -26 (requires cutting the thread further down the bolt too), if
>I smooth out out the end of the thread cut? Someone warned me that
>cutting the tread on aircraft bolts weakens then as the origianl thread
>was rolled not cut. However, do these spar bolts carry much tension? It
>would seem most of the load is in shear?
>
>Reason I bring this up is NAS1305-26 bolts from Van's are $3.50 or more
>a bolt (x16 = $56 or more) - money I'd rather use elsewhere.
>
>
>Finn
>
The ground is HARD!! 'Nuff said? I certainly wouldn't chance it.
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Right Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EAA Chapter 1 Open House |
If I still have an airplane. i`ll go. Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator/Voltage Regulator |
I have installed a 50 amp alternator on my RV6A. My alternator has an
internal voltage regulator. It has a charge lead and then a three prong
plug. One of the leads on the plug is a "sense" lead. Do I still need to
use the external voltage regulator that I bought from Vans?. Where do I
connect the "Sense Lead". To the positive side of the battery?. Would
greatly appreciate any suggestions.
Ron Caldwell
RV6A - N655RV
rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Jim,
Instead of using up valuable panel space with a canopy release handle,
that
more than likely will never be used, I chose to extend the shaft down to
the
bottom of my panel. There I put a simple handle with a retention pin to
keep
the canopy hinge pin in place. Works well and frees up panel space...
This is
on the standard Tp-Up canopy.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>> From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
>> To: rv-list
>> Subject: RV-List: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly
>> Date: Thursday, January 29, 1998 5:42 PM
>>
>>
>> Jim,
>
>I thought long and hard about whether or not to install the quick
>release.
>I decided to install it.
>
>1. I'm using the gas struts to hold the canopy open. I thought that
>this
>would mean that the quick release would not work anyhow since the
>struts
>would prevent the canopy from departing the fuselage.
>
>2. Just for jollies, I tried to install the canopy with 1/4 inch bolts
>instead of the quick release mechanism. It was a royal pain in the neck
>(literally). I've talked to other builders that have been able to do
this,
>but I was not. Not only is it very difficult to get up under the panel
to
>insert the bolts, there is very little space for a wrench to tighten the
>nut on the bolt.
>
>3. I chose to use the quick release with the gas struts.
>
>good luck
>Bob
>RV-6 cowling
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
Jon;
I am seriously considering it. Doing a lot of number crunching but have
too many non quantitative question marks that are making the decision very
hard for me. The desire to do so is extremely high and pressing. We have a
slightly damaged Cessna 150 project that is a possible. And my dream
project, a Stearman, is not promising right now. The price is right but the
owner will not get off of dead center. I think it will fall through.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 N61764 sold
Stephenville TX
>Will you build another?
>Jon Elford
________________________________________________________________________________
I learned a little tidbit from Vans last night that should help anyone
working on the forward spar of the HS, in my case an RV-6. The manual
tells you to remove only the flange and not the radius when trimming
the forward spars of the HS (HS-602) in order to bend and fit the HS
610s and 614s. The reason for this is allow you to pound the radius
flat and give yourself additional edge distance for the -4 rivets in
the 610s and 614s. It is not mentioned in the manual. So, you may
want to drill the 610s/614s before trimming the flange, as I did. You
can then decide if you need the additional edge distance (I didn't) in
the radius and trim/pound the 602 accordingly.
Maybe this is common knowledge, but it puzzled me. I Suppose I should
get used to it.
Chris Browne
-6 emp
Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv-6a sliding canopy |
<< Prior to installing the plastic canopy on the metal frame, the rollers
worked o.k. Now that the plastic is installed the rollers slide instead
of rolling. If i push the canopy in from the side the rollers work
fine.Any suggesting on how to fix the problem without removing the
plastic from the frame.
Jack Anderson
Boulder City, Nv
rv-6a flying but not painted
>>
Jack:
I've found that the frame and the plexi seldom agree on the final shape of the
slider portion. This paradox confronts many canopy installations. An ambient
temp change will introduce another variable, as the plexi shrinks and expands
more than the steel frame. I'd like to say that you can simply bend the frame
to the desired dimension, but you stand a good chance of breaking the plexi.
Would it be possible for you to change (file, or shim) the wheel bushings a
bit, to get the wheels to track closer to the center of the track? Are you
sure that the wheels actually do rotate? I've had to file those wheel bushings
more that a few times to get 'em to roll correctly. Is the track full of
paint? Who's on first? What's on second? ;-)
Also, (I'll bet you tried this first!) you might simply lube the track and get
the wheels (now sliding blocks) to slide good enough to satisfy.
PLease post your solution to the list.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
You fellas DO safety the ejection mechanism after shut-down, don't you? ;-)
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator/Voltage Regulator |
>I have installed a 50 amp alternator on my RV6A. My alternator has an
>internal voltage regulator. It has a charge lead and then a three prong
>plug. One of the leads on the plug is a "sense" lead. Do I still need to
>use the external voltage regulator that I bought from Vans?. Where do I
>connect the "Sense Lead". To the positive side of the battery?. Would
>greatly appreciate any suggestions.
>Ron Caldwell
We'd really need to know a little more about *WHICH* 50 Amp internally
regulated alternator you have. (ND as used on Honda, Geo, etc.? or others.)
The plug for the ND alternator carries power to excite the alternator and
has provision for a charge light in the car. For it to work correctly, you
must have power from the Bus (through a fuse or CB of the correct rating)
and either an indicator light with 12V supplied to the light and grounded
through the alternator, or a small resistor to simulate the light. Other
alternators may be wired differently (light wired to a current source
rather than current sink?) so get a copy of the wiring diagram for the
appropriate car and look at it.
If you have a good alternator shop in your town I'm sure they could tell
you how to wire it, but the factory diagram for your particular model is
still the best information.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
I would be very careful about not over "pounding" out the radius as you may
stretch the metal and end up with a piece that has an arc in it or looks
like a snake on the edge. Might try it on some scrap first to see what
happens when you do that.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
>
>
>
> I learned a little tidbit from Vans last night that should help anyone
> working on the forward spar of the HS, in my case an RV-6. The manual
> tells you to remove only the flange and not the radius when trimming
> the forward spars of the HS (HS-602) in order to bend and fit the HS
> 610s and 614s. The reason for this is allow you to pound the radius
> flat and give yourself additional edge distance for the -4 rivets in
> the 610s and 614s. It is not mentioned in the manual. So, you may
> want to drill the 610s/614s before trimming the flange, as I did. You
> can then decide if you need the additional edge distance (I didn't) in
> the radius and trim/pound the 602 accordingly.
>
> Maybe this is common knowledge, but it puzzled me. I Suppose I should
> get used to it.
>
> Chris Browne
> -6 emp
> Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
I am like you, a real penny pincher. I sure wouldn't like to spend an extra
$56 on some bolts.
But - If you have a total of $30,000 in your finished plane, that $56.00 is
only 0.2% of the total cost you have into the plane. Think about how little
those bolts cost and how big a risk your willing to take.
If you have to save money please find some otherway to do it.
John L. Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
Could these bolts be cut, not rethreaded, and be used?
I assume the only reason to cut them is because overall they cannot be
installed do to their overall length. If after installing and the nut put on,
if the cut is after the nut would this not be acceptable as long as no
rethreading is involved?
John L. Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
What about scratches on the flat surfaces of the spar flanges, not the edges?
Do these have to be taken out?
By taking out these draw marks on the flat surface, I would be removing quite
a bit of material in the spar flanges I have (these are the thin ones that are
not tapered in the pre-punched kit). I have about 6 parallel scratches all
side by side.over about 1/4" in width, not real deep maybe 0.005".
Any advice?
John L. Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WBrooks001(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: need SK 52 and SK 53 sketches |
Thanks very much for the offer, I have them now. This list is great!
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)adobe.com> |
| Subject: | Builders list ?? |
Hello listers,
Is there currently a resource on the web for finding
RV builders in a perticular area other than
blasting the list for this info?
If there is no such list I'm considering starting a
list that would contain the following information
on RV builders on my web page if there is enough
interest.
Name
Address
Phone Number
Email address
Web Page
Project Type
Project Status
And any other information that might be helpful in locating
builders that are near you.
If this sounds like a good idea please let me know off list.
Also if you want your information on the web page please provide
answers to the above and I will add you in. Once I have the
page created I will publish the address to the rv-list for
all to use.
Thanks,
Jeff Hawkins
RV-8
Suwanee, GA
________________________________________________________________________________
Agreed on both points. The edge is pretty crummy but you can always
trim that away, like I did. But as long as you don't go to crazy with
the hammer as you suggest, at least you have a choice when your edge
distance is less tha 1/4" other than to scrap it and start over.
Chris Browne
-6 Emp
Atlanta
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: RV-List: HS-602s
Date: 1/30/98 7:08 AM
I would be very careful about not over "pounding" out the radius as you may
stretch the metal and end up with a piece that has an arc in it or looks
like a snake on the edge. Might try it on some scrap first to see what
happens when you do that.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
>
>
>
> ... The manual > tells you to remove only the flange and not the
radius when trimming
> the forward spars of the HS (HS-602) in order to bend and fit
the HS > 610s and 614s. The reason for this is allow you to pound
the radius > flat and give yourself additional edge distance for
the -4 rivets in > the 610s and 614s. ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
I keep hearing about problems with mogas from time to time on this list,
and from many different people. It seems as though everyone is talking
around the subject so I think I'll throw in my nickel's worth.
In 1989 I let it be known that I was about to build a tank farm
at my small airport and that I would have mogas available if there were
enough customers for it. Shortly after that I received a call from none
other than Mr. Goodwrench, saying he was going to buy a plane and park it
at my field, and buy gas from me IF he were sure that I had the proper
filters. The he told me of his research and recommended a filter that
would suck the strings out of atoms. I told him that I was going to use
two filters in the 2-5 micron range. He persisted, adding that his
carburetor
had twice been destroyed by fuel contamination. I told him it was alcohol
and he assured me that he did not use atlantic, 10% alcohol, and was
assured by the pump jockeys that their gas contained NO ALCOHOL.
Then I informed him that New York was a ( cross-trade ) state and that it
was legal for the fuel suppliers to cross trade in bulk and it made no
difference what the pump jockey said because he couldn't possibly know.
Mr. Goodwrench was stunned.
You may also be interested in this. While engines have been
modified over the years, supposedly to handle gas with reduced lead
content, and also supposedly to handle the additive tetra ethel lead,
( sounds like a big contradiction in terms ) Amoco has not gone out of
business. It has been pumped into cars since moses rode a skate board
and continues to make cars go today. Well,a couple of guys at the field
gave me this bit of wisdom. One of these guys had a ship shot out from
under him in WW2 and the other was a primary flight instructor in early
WW2. They say that Amoco was the aviators choice since time began .
And what do you see when you look at the side of an Amoco pump?
NO LEAD. I'll leave you to your own conclusions on that one.
In my neck of the woods fuel comes in by pipeline, except Mobil which
is shipped in by truck. As a result Mobil and Amoco are the choice of
mogas around here. Something else you might want to consider is that
the Oil Co's change their formula's every four months in order to keep
the A.S.T.M. ( I think that's spelled vapor pressure ) proper for the
seasonal changes. Well I guess that's all I know about that.
Larry Mac Donald
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
In a message dated 1/30/98 9:09:05 AM, you wrote:
<< I have about 6 parallel scratches all
side by side.over about 1/4" in width, not real deep maybe 0.005".
Any advice?
John L. Danielson>>
I think an earlier reply of mine got hung up in cyberspace, but I'll try
again. My HS stiffeners are smoother than snot on a doorknob. I have spoken
with Vans and with Jerry Scott about this and they have all laughed at the
amount of time I invested with 400 grit sandpaper.
Does it matter to you if your airplane lasts beyond 50 years of hard use?
Talk to Vans. Find a balance between your desire for perfection and finishing
your project.
Jeff Carpenter
RV-6
Altadena, CA
wstcttprss@aolcom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Wentz <Don_Wentz(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
John Morgan at Van's is converting his RV-4 from 160 to 180 horsepower
and CS prop. He is in need of the oil line that feeds the prop from the
governor. Evidently all of the new O-360 engines from Van's come ready
for CS with this oil line installed?
If you bought one of those engines and are using fixed pitch, he would
like to buy that oil line.
Also, his old firewall fwd is for sale.
Respond to me if you have any leads.
thx,
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369, FF 6/30/94, 490hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 (A) Jig For Sale |
I have a fuselage jig for sale, mine and one other RV-6 was built on it. The
jig and I are located in Fremont Ca which is about 10 miles north of San Jose.
Contact me offline at:
RBusick505(at)aol.com
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: rv-6a sliding canopy |
> << Prior to installing the plastic canopy on the metal frame, the rollers
> worked o.k. Now that the plastic is installed the rollers slide instead
> of rolling.
I assume that by "installed" you mean riveted on. In this case, I don't
know of many options, and the ones I do know of are kinda scary.
Scott McD. came over one day when I was doing the canopy and as I
recall he said he once worked on one that was like this, and he
successfully bent it in place. But that would sure make me nervous! I
can't think of any other alternatives however, short of drilling it off.
If you chose either of these options, I imagine you'd want to get it as
hot as possible in your shop first. Better yet, stick a space heater in
the cockpit and close the canopy and let it heat up for a while.
For those who haven't done their slider yet, take heed of the above
discussion. I ran into the same thing but fortunately caught it before
I riveted my canopy on. Here is a partial post that I wrote about it a
while ago. I found it in the archive. Forgive my partly incorrect
use of the term "preload".
------------- Begin Included Message Part -------------
> - It looks like the sides of my SLIDING canopy want to bulge out 1/4"
> or so. Will the side skirts hold them in?
Yes. But note that this bulge will also tend to push the frame out, so
if the frame rides nicely in the center of the tracks without the plexi
on there, then once you get it on and clamp the sides to the frame, the
rollers will be rubbing against the outside of the rail. I found it
necessary to bend the front bow of the frame inward so it was about
1/2" narrow without the plexi clamped to it. Once the plexi was on and
clamped to the side rails of the frame, the two preloads cancelled each
other out and the rollers are right where they need to be. Try to work
this out before doing final shimming at the front, as any re-bending
will change the shape of the front bow.
------------- End Included Message Part -------------
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
<http://www.edt.com/homewing>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
I believe that the folks who supply the pre-built spars sand the flange
strips down on a flat bed belt sander before they are anodized. Don't know
where you are located, but if the parts you have are badly gouged from the
milling process, you might want investigate the possibility of having the
sanding done on a custom basis either by them or another shop close to you.
This does remove a bit of material.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>What about scratches on the flat surfaces of the spar flanges, not the
edges?
>Do these have to be taken out?
>By taking out these draw marks on the flat surface, I would be removing
quite
>a bit of material in the spar flanges I have (these are the thin ones that
are
>not tapered in the pre-punched kit). I have about 6 parallel scratches all
>side by side.over about 1/4" in width, not real deep maybe 0.005".
>Any advice?
>
>John L. Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Willemssen, Chris J." <chris.j.willemssen(at)loram.com> |
| Subject: | 1)Wheel pants and 2)Nose wheel main bar. |
I'm somewhat new to the list, and basically, somewhat new to the RV's. A
friend
has given me an excellent opportunity to join him in enjoying his pretty much
complete RV-6A. So I can't say I have the pride of self building our RV-6A,
but
I hope to gain pride through partial ownership and upkeep/improvements.
There's
always the near future for starting my own homebuilt aircraft.
2 questions:
1) Concerning the wheel pants--has anyone had trouble with them filling up
with
slush/snow? Last two times we've taken the RV out, it's been snowy/slushy (can
you say Minnesota?). As we were taxiing back to the hangar last flight, we
noticed some scary scraping/grinding noise. Finally, we figured out that the
pants (all three of them) were full of what was now ice, and that was rubbing
on
the tires.
________________________________________________________________________________
for the winter, or the other cutting out the bottom of the wheel pants to allow
for greater clearance between it and the wheel. I'm not convinced cutting is
the way to go, as it will most likely fill up anyway (small icebergs hanging
from automobile fender wells come to mind, even though there is up to 6" of
clearance there).
Any suggestions?
2) On the nose wheel bar, there is a rounded piece attached to the trailing
edge of the bar, giving it a more streamlined appearance/function. This piece
is a wooden pattern which is fiberglassed into place. The problem is that as
the bar flexxes, the fiberglass does not, thus causing the piece to separate
from the main bar.
Suffering from severe ignorance, I'm not sure if this trailing edge piece is
even a standard RV part. And if it is, I would guess this has got to be an
extremely common problem, as fiberglass does not possess the elasticity that
steel does. I would welcome input concerning this issue.
Hoping to gain respect as time goes on-
Chris Willemssen (chris.j.willemssen(at)loram.com)
--RV-6A with 16 hours on it, 24 to go before the FAA disappears (sort of).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Whelan <twhelan(at)f22l11.mar.lmco.com> |
Christopher E Browne wrote:
> But as long as you don't go to crazy with
> the hammer as you suggest,
>
>
> I would be very careful about not over "pounding" out the radius
> Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
> The reason for this is allow you to pound
> the radius flat and give yourself additional edge distance for
> the -4 rivets in the 610s and 614s. ...
>
Speaking of flattening the center portion of the flanges on the HS forward spar,
I'm not there yet but how about clamping some lumber to each side of the flange
to
make the equivalent of a large hand seamer and bending it flat?
On a related topic, the additional (hard Al) material that is being retained for
edge clearance has now been flexed 90 degrees twice. Does it matter?
Todd Whelan
RV-8 #80554
(still) getting shop and tools together; empennage parts inventoried. Sportair
class next weekend!
________________________________________________________________________________
I didn't see in the archive that anyone is using this primer. Has
anyone tried it? I'm going to give it a whirl (the SW store was
closer than Dupont! :^}) It is apparently the SW equivalent of
Variprime and I am told it differs from the SW wash primer in that it
contains zinc chromate and that 980 is incompatible with wash primer.
Chris Browne
-6 emp
Atlanta
was stunned.
This is good advice. Alcohol IS the big problem. Not particulates.
The only thing to do is test your own fuel -see the archives -I already
wrote about this.
> You may also be interested in this. While engines have been
> modified over the years, supposedly to handle gas with reduced lead
> content, and also supposedly to handle the additive tetra ethel lead,
> ( sounds like a big contradiction in terms )
Get your facts straight...
Tetraethyl Lead IS the LEAD in leaded fuel. The other major ingredients
in fuel are Heptane and Iso-octane. Pure iso-octane is 100 octane fuel
by itself -expensive stuff -no additional lead needed. Heptane is mixed
in with iso-oct 'cause it's cheap -but it drops the octane. T.E.L. is
added to make up for this 'cause it's cheap too -but artificially raises
the octane rating, making it possible to have (for example) 100 octane
"rated" fuel without having it be 100% iso-octane. This is a simpilfied
explanation, but basically accurate.
the Oil Co's change their formula's every four months in order to keep
> the A.S.T.M. ( I think that's spelled vapor pressure ) proper for the
> seasonal changes. Well I guess that's all I know about that.
The fuels DO change seasonally, but the ASTM is 'American Society for
Testing Materials' -not a term for vapor pressure.
Scott
N4ZW
No, I'm not a petro engineer -I just learned this stuff 'cause I use
autogas (with great success) and wanted to know more about fuels in
general. Incidentally you all had better get used to the idea of auto
gas... It looks like we're all going to be burning it in the pretty near
future -the new avfuel spec. "82UL" is just 87 oct autogas really.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TPhilpin(at)aol.com |
<< The manual
tells you to remove only the flange and not the radius when trimming
the forward spars of the HS (HS-602) in order to bend and fit the HS
610s and 614s. The reason for this is allow you to pound the radius
flat and give yourself additional edge distance for the -4 rivets in
the 610s and 614s. It is not mentioned in the manual. So, you may
want to drill the 610s/614s before trimming the flange, as I did. You
can then decide if you need the additional edge distance (I didn't) in
the radius and trim/pound the 602 accordingly. >>
Might I suggest one leave the radius intact which provides stiffness and still
offers the additional edge distance, just over the radius rather than
flat?????????
Tony Philpin
RV-8 Builder, PA -16 owner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load (engine and prop weights) |
While we're on weight, does everyone install rear seat rudder pedals/
throttle controls? How much weight could you save by leaving them out?
How many other -8 builders have/ are planning full controls in the
backseat? Would it be hard to add them at a later date, if they were not
installed from the outset?
Moe Colontonio
-8 HS
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> << That the heftier, more-HP O360 doesn't even make up
> for its own extra weight over the O320??? >>
>
> The O-360 weighs about 10 lbs more than the O-320 in the same configuration.
> Use of the Sky-Tec starter saves 10 lbs. The Hartzell c/s prop is almost 40
> lbs heavier than the average fixed pitch woody. Then, there can be a lot of
> difference in the weight of the panel goodies. And how about that new
> epoxy/glass cowl?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
<< I
understand that the canopy jettison mechanism is useful not only for
getting out of the plane in an emergency, >>
One question I had about the canopy jettison mechanism is this-
Would it be possible to eject the canopy in flight (just prior to touchdown
while putting into rough terrain) since under these circumstances it is likely
that the aircraft will come to rest belly up?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
<< Here in NZ, when unleaded was phased in, lots
of cars (and petrol pumps) had problems with O-ring seals failing. The
high aromatic (benzene-like substances) content caused the rubber to
swell. >>
Very interesting. I believe I read an article about the future of 100LL that
referred to the use of "aromatics" to increase the octane of fuels being
looked at as a replacement for this fuel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard TREANOR <rtreanor(at)ci.sunnyvale.ca.us> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-602s -Reply |
>> snip
>Might I suggest one leave the radius intact which provides stiffness and
>still
>offers the additional edge distance, just over the radius rather than
>flat?????????
>>
I've already scraped one set of 602's. I would think that leaving the
radius in would be a problem when bending the material the required 6
degrees. Would that cause a crimp in the edges when bent?
I wish I would have received this thread a couple of days ago, as I have
already modified my second set of 602's, and I can already see that I'll
have to locate my holes a little more inboard to compensate for edge
distance. I hope I have enough material! If not another $20 into the kitty!
Rich Treanor
Sunnyvale, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
I use the 988 in a spray can, and I like it. Nothing beats it for ease
of use. No screwing with guns and compressors, and no cleanup. SW told
me it's the same stuff as the 980, just in a can. I don't think it
contains Zinc Chromate though. It's a light grey color, and it gets
dirty quick, as it shows every fingerprint. From now on, I'll spray my
parts just before final assembly. I pay about $4.50 a can, and you get
pretty good coverage.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 HS
Christopher E Browne wrote:
>
>
> I didn't see in the archive that anyone is using this primer. Has
> anyone tried it? I'm going to give it a whirl (the SW store was
> closer than Dupont! :^}) It is apparently the SW equivalent of
> Variprime and I am told it differs from the SW wash primer in that it
> contains zinc chromate and that 980 is incompatible with wash primer.
>
> Chris Browne
> -6 emp
> Atlanta
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
Hi,
I want to see and maybe ride in your demo week of 16 February. Please let me
know if there is one day better than another. I can do any day but would
prefer other than Thursday.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
Wk 650.943.8351
Hm 408.244.4984
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Free for the taking one RV wing jig. It is set up for building both
wings at the same time. ( yes, you have to crawl under it )
It was built by Hal Benjamin, he has finished his wings and move to
Long Island. It is in Tallahasse, FL. If some one wants it I will
keep it in my hanger for a short while, if not its fire wood.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: alternate engines |
The only place where Californians go as slow as 65 is in the driveway. When
you pass one of these Chevy trucks, they are doing all they can to go faster.
hal
> Is it true that the Chevy engine in question is putting out 100% power?
> These trucks are geared to run at 65mph at 100% power in some gear?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Holes in firewall |
I cut all big holes with a fly cutter. Just clamp a block of wood to one side
of the stainless to anchor the pilot drill on the cutter. Takes about 15
seconds to cut.
Small holes with the Unibit. Lay out all holes you can with the motor hung,
like the cabin heat, etc, remove the motor mount/motor and cut away.
Bruce Patton
Just got my paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A canopy ejection assembly |
<< Would it be possible to eject the canopy in flight (just prior to touchdown
while putting into rough terrain) since under these circumstances it is
likely
that the aircraft will come to rest belly up?
>>
An RV-4 flyer told me that he would jettison his canopy in a rough field
landing or emergency. And I though that the reason for the jettisonable (is
that really a word?) canopy was for this very purpose.
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
Thanks Les,
That was the kind of hard info I was looking for.
I'm now using a .305 reamer in a drill press which gives a tight fit
with hardware store bolts (just used for fitting the wing) ground down a
bit.
That should give a real press fit for the NAS bolts.
Don't you find it interesting that NAS13xx are tension bolts and NAS11xx
are shear bolts, yet the specified nuts for these bolts in Van's design
are AN364- shear nuts!
I'm going to sit down and do some rough calculations on the actual loads
on these bolts. I'm faily certain that they are vastly overengineered,
and that NAS13xx were chosen because they were available.
Did you note Scott MaDaniel's posting some time ago, re the real stress
is at the outermost fuselage bolts (fulcrum)? Of course the full wing
spar should be viewed as one beam on which the fuselage sits.
I'll probably use spacers or get the right bolts (or maybe a combination
of both) instead of cutting the thread.
Finn
Leslie B. Williams wrote:
>
>
> NAS11XX are close tolerance "shear" bolts and NAS13XX are close tolerance
> "tension" bolts. I think the size diameter tolerances would be the same.
>
> The proper ream size for a NAS1306 is .3740 which is .0005 smaller than the
> maximum diameter but .0005 more than the minimum diameter. I can't locate
> the ream size for NAS1104 or NAS1304 bolts, but the size listed for this
> bolt in my Aircraft Spruce Catalog is .2495, not .3120 which is for the
> NAS1105. In either size, I would still use a.0005 smaller reamer, not .0005
> larger, as you will have a loose fit (.0015) if your bolt size is the
> maximum .0010 undersize.
>
> I also agree with others that you should not cut off the bolts and cut new
> threads.
>
> I would also suggest that you contact Van's support team about any unclear
> instructions regarding spar bolt sizes, etc.
>
> Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
> >
> >
> >Plans versus drawing #6 is a bit unclear as to the proper size.
> >
> >Aircraft Spruce lists specs for NAS1104 bolts as .3120 + 0, -0.001, but
> >what are the specs for the NAS1304 bolts? What's the difference between
> >NAS11xx and NAS13xx anyway?
> >
> >I drilled/reamed out one hole with a .3125 reamer, and bolt went in with
> >a faily light tap on the head.
> >
> >
> >Second question: I got some NAS1304-31 bolts cheap ($.50). Can I shorten
> >them to -26 (requires cutting the thread further down the bolt too), if
> >I smooth out out the end of the thread cut? Someone warned me that
> >cutting the tread on aircraft bolts weakens then as the origianl thread
> >was rolled not cut. However, do these spar bolts carry much tension? It
> >would seem most of the load is in shear?
> >
> >Reason I bring this up is NAS1305-26 bolts from Van's are $3.50 or more
> >a bolt (x16 = $56 or more) - money I'd rather use elsewhere.
> >
> >
> >Finn
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab-AND CHANGES TO MANUAL |
>David Carter, Nederland, TX; HS stab skeleton: Shortening H405 and H608
>ribs about 1/16inch (by rebending fwd end tabs a bit) - so fwd spar
>flange hole centerlines will show in center of prepunched skin holes -
>using measurements from pp skin (dist between centerline on aft spar and
>fwd spar plus dist up to top of rib (4.8/16ths), using an 18" metal
>ruler clamped accurately on rib to show distance from hole in aft spar
>to top (in jig) of rib/tab, so can bend and see results instantly and
>get it right before re-clamping fwd spar on again for final check.
This operation sounds much harder than necessary. I didn't have to do this
and I have good rivets throughout the stab with good edge distances, etc.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Right Elevator
Right Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge cracks |
>IMO, toss the hinge. Instead use two pieces of .062" thk aluminum sheet
>riveted to the lower cowling with approx .75" overhang (underhang?). Put the
>top cowling in place and pull it down in tight position. Drill 3 holes each
>side in the top cowling, going thru the plate. Then install platenuts in the
>plate and countersink the top cowling and you have a much stronger attachment.
That's sort of what I did. Works great. I riveted and bonded the plate to
the lower cowel, and used the type of nutplate that "float" to allow the two
coweling halves to move relative to each other.
Micheal
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying, but not enough
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternator/Voltage Regulator |
Yes, I'm sure my alternator is an ND type. It's used in a 1989 Honda
Accord. It looks just like the one that Van's sells, but just a little bit
larger. I'll check with a local alternator shop to make sure. If it is an
ND type, do I still need to install an external voltage regulator?
----------
> From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator/Voltage Regulator
> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 8:01 AM
>
>
> >I have installed a 50 amp alternator on my RV6A. My alternator has an
> >internal voltage regulator. It has a charge lead and then a three prong
> >plug. One of the leads on the plug is a "sense" lead. Do I still need
to
> >use the external voltage regulator that I bought from Vans?. Where do I
> >connect the "Sense Lead". To the positive side of the battery?. Would
> >greatly appreciate any suggestions.
> >Ron Caldwell
>
> We'd really need to know a little more about *WHICH* 50 Amp internally
> regulated alternator you have. (ND as used on Honda, Geo, etc.? or
others.)
>
> The plug for the ND alternator carries power to excite the alternator and
> has provision for a charge light in the car. For it to work correctly,
you
> must have power from the Bus (through a fuse or CB of the correct rating)
> and either an indicator light with 12V supplied to the light and grounded
> through the alternator, or a small resistor to simulate the light. Other
> alternators may be wired differently (light wired to a current source
> rather than current sink?) so get a copy of the wiring diagram for the
> appropriate car and look at it.
>
> If you have a good alternator shop in your town I'm sure they could tell
> you how to wire it, but the factory diagram for your particular model is
> still the best information.
>
>
> Bob Steward, A&P IA
> AA-1B N8978L
> AA-5A N1976L
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Inspection List by FAA Inspector |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BD2DCB.A15D4FE0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BD2DCB.A15D4FE0
I found a great link on Van's page to a check list written by an FAA =
inspector. I recommend it to all as a good checklist to follow before =
FAA (or DAR) inspection. It is =
http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm
Dennis Persyk 6A instrument panel
Barrington, IL
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BD2DCB.A15D4FE0
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I found a great link on Van's page to a check =
list=20
written by an FAA inspector. I recommend it to all as a good =
checklist to=20
follow before FAA (or DAR) inspection. It is http://www.pr=
ovide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm
Dennis Persyk 6A instrument =
panel
Barrington, IL
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BD2DCB.A15D4FE0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: rv-6a sliding canopy |
Jack,
I was fortunate to notice this before rivetting the plexi. I bent
the frame in a tad to compensate. I also tapered the wheels a bit so
they are thinner at the periphery than the centre and sort of follow
the contour of the side of the canopy rails.
The canopy rolls now but as a result I had some side to side
play in the slider which caused fouling with the weather seal strip
on the windscreen.
I fixed this by cutting strips of self adhesive UHMW tape (United
States Plastics Corp) and laying them inside the curved side of the
canopy rails so there is no play at the forward limit of the slider
travel. You could use the same technique but make the strips full
length of the rails. There would be a bit of friction between the
outside of the wheel and the UHMW, but I'll bet it's a big
improvement.
Email me offline if you want more details. BTW, get the 3" tape and
use it for your flap top skins where they rub on the wing skin. You
will find a zillion other uses for this magic stuff.
Peter
> Prior to installing the plastic canopy on the metal frame, the rollers
> worked o.k. Now that the plastic is installed the rollers slide instead
> of rolling. If i push the canopy in from the side the rollers work
> fine.Any suggesting on how to fix the problem without removing the
> plastic from the frame.
> Jack Anderson
> Boulder City, Nv
> rv-6a flying but not painted
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 doing plumbing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gretz-aero(at)Juno.com (Warren Gretz) |
I saw the post yesterday that someone is looking for a good deal on a
RV-6 cowl. I managed to loose the return e-mail address to this person.
Sorry.
I have a RV-6 cowl that I will sell at a good price. I would want a
minimum of $375 for it. I am located in Denver.
Warren Gretz
(303) 770-3811
gretz-aero(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
Scratches and such create a point of localized stress. The example I
remember is to take a couple of pieces of cardboard. Bend one until it
folds; were you able to predict the failure point? Next, notch a couple
of sides on the other piece and repeat the procedure. It should fail at
the notches. A smooth radius spreads the stress out (this is why
stop-drilling works). If a milling mark or scratch is deep, it can
often be dished out to an acceptable radius. Guess what? The
scotchbrite wheel smooths those marks out just fine.
PatK - RV-6A
Capt Brian J. Mork, 333-6044 wrote:
>
> It would seem the
> ridges, lines, ruffles, machining fly-cut marks, etc would be wasted
> weight, but how would they actually weaken the piece?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | ground handling 6 vs 8 |
Hi all,
I'm building an 8 or 8A, and have a question about the ground handling
quality of the 8. Has anyone flown both the 8 and 6? How does the new gear
on the 8 compare to the old gear on the 6. I've never flown either, but
I've heard plenty about the handling of the 6.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
SlingShot SS-003, N8754K
RV-8(A?) empenage
Navarre, FL
rad(at)pen.net
http://www.pen.net/~rad/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rv-6a sliding canopy |
I had a similar problem with my slider. What I wound up doing, was to modify
the screw holes that mount the rails to a slight oval shape. This allowed me
to move the rails outboard just enough to cure the interference problem.
During fabrication, another builder had warned me about how hard it is to
install the %$##!! nuts on the screws that hold these rails in. So I installed
nutplates. Good luck.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Glover <tglovebox(at)bc.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
JDaniel343(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Could these bolts be cut, not rethreaded, and be used?
Jeez. After all the talk by the FAA about bogus bolts 'n stuff, I would
be *extremely* cautious with some 'cheap unknown history' bolts. Aren't
they about the same colour as Cheese Whiz? Might they be about as
strong?
As has been said before; your butt is riding on them. Would you trust
your butt to just *any* bolt?
Tom (asbestos shorts) Glover
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Airshow 7 Feb, New Zealand |
Just a note to mention that the annual Sport Aircraft Association airshow is
to be held 6-8 February at Matamata with the main day being the 7 Feruary
-just in case there are any visitors on business trips that need a
distraction for a day or two!
Check the following web site for further information.
http://www.kaon.co.nz/saanz/index.html
L. Coats ZK-RVL RV6 flying :-) 224.4hr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
<< Several factors affect what gross weight should be set at, I believe. >>
Not the least of which should be airframe ultimate strength !!!!!
messing around with gross weight is something that is best done by very
careful stress analysis. Most people forget that unlike a car, an airplane can
have an EFFECTIVE weight of 3-4 times the gross weight at rest. if your RV
weighs 1200 lb. on the ground, guess what, In a normal 45 degree bank it now
has an effective weight of 2400 lbs. and so on...............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
>
> I would be very careful about not over "pounding" out the radius as you > may
Put the Flush Squeezer sets into your hand squeezer and gently squeeze
the bend flat.
Doug Gray
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul and Janet Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
Speaking of cowls.... I have a new, uninstalled, 6 cowl for $300 and
wheelpants as well. Michigan
cheers Paul
IO-360 6A
_____________________________________
* The Leins *
* 1555 South Brinton Road *
* Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 *
* (517) 644-2451 *
_____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Moore <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com wrote:
> Not the least of which should be airframe ultimate strength !!!!!
> messing around with gross weight is something that is best done by very
> careful stress analysis. Most people forget that unlike a car, an airplane can
> have an EFFECTIVE weight of 3-4 times the gross weight at rest. if your RV
> weighs 1200 lb. on the ground, guess what, In a normal 45 degree bank it now
> has an effective weight of 2400 lbs. and so on...............
In a 60 degree banked turn the g-force would be 2.
Bob Moore
CFI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator/Voltage Regulator |
>Yes, I'm sure my alternator is an ND type. It's used in a 1989 Honda
>Accord. It looks just like the one that Van's sells, but just a little bit
>larger. I'll check with a local alternator shop to make sure. If it is an
>ND type, do I still need to install an external voltage regulator?
>> We'd really need to know a little more about *WHICH* 50 Amp internally
>> regulated alternator you have. (ND as used on Honda, Geo, etc.? or
>others.)
No. The 89 Accord had an internal regulator. (I own a Honda.)
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | How to use alumiprep?? |
Let me throw one out there. I,m going to use alumiprep and variprime.
Haven't purchased yet, but was wondering how some of you are doing the
alumiprep step(s)?? Do you spray it, do you soak it , do you scrub it,
do you dunk a donut in it :-?.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6a #25305 Empennage parts deburred & ready for assembly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
While examining under the hood I noticed a candle wax or bees wax like
substance that had dripped out of the rear of my starter and splattered
on top of the filtered air box. The substance looks exactly like wax,
not grease or whatever the starter windings are dipped in. There is no
burnt odor or any indications of starter malfunction. There was still
one drop which had solidified on the aft bottom of the starter housing
waiting to get hot and drip.
What is this stuff and why is it there
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | cowl guys and other stuff fer sale |
Just wanted to remind everybody of the free classified section on the RV
Journal web site:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/forsale.html
We have plenty of room for "Cowls for Sale" and other goodies!
Sam Buchanan (Wing kit arrives!) (14 week delivery....)
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Trip to Alaska |
>-->
>
> I'm starting the planning process for a two week trip to Alaska mid
>May time frame in my -6A. Route of travel will be from New England to
>Rochester Mn, then on up to the Calgary, Canada area and following the
>Alcan Highway to Juno and Fairbanks (& who knows from there...).
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
\
Fred, if you want a stop-over and return thru B.C., you may follow back
down from Alaska on the Hwy. 37 to Junction yellowhead at my home where
RV-6 C-FXXG lives. Smithers is 20 minutes away and has fuel etc.
Love to show you around, we have mountians but nothing a RV can't handle.
Get in touch thru Shirley's address if you would like more info.
Ed Hobenshield
- Private field, Kitwanga B.C. (even 150 Cessana's fly off this strip )
Shirley Hobenshield shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca
Kitwanga, BC, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>While examining under the hood I noticed a candle wax or bees wax like
>substance that had dripped out of the rear of my starter and splattered
>on top of the filtered air box. The substance looks exactly like wax,
>not grease or whatever the starter windings are dipped in. There is no
>burnt odor or any indications of starter malfunction. There was still
>one drop which had solidified on the aft bottom of the starter housing
>waiting to get hot and drip.
>
>What is this stuff and why is it there
What make of starter is it?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 4:46 AM
Subject: G-Forces in Turns
>>
>if your RV
>weighs 1200 lb. on the ground, guess what, In a normal 45 degree bank it
now
>has an effective weight of 2400 lbs. and so on...............
>
Wow -- what would it be in an abnormal bank?
In a 45 degree turn, 1/[cos(45)] = 1.4 which is 1.4 g's or 1697 lbs. A
60 degree turn produces 2 g's.
G-force is obtained from 1/(cosine turn angle) for a coordinated turn.
Dennis (trig comes easy) Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inspection List by FAA Inspector |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006E_01BD2E23.0EBC5AC0"
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------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BD2E23.0EBC5AC0
The information packet that the Northwest Region FAA sends out to =
builders includes a detailed check list as well as every other document =
that I know of to register, request inspection, operating limitation =
example, etc along with approved kits list and flight testing AC. All it =
takes to get it is a telephone call. It is pretty complete and if other =
regions don't do that, they could take a lesson from them. =20
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA =20
=20
=20
I found a great link on Van's page to a check list written by an FAA =
inspector. I recommend it to all as a good checklist to follow before =
FAA (or DAR) inspection. It is =
http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm
Dennis Persyk 6A instrument panel
Barrington, IL
------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BD2E23.0EBC5AC0
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
The information packet that the =
Northwest Region=20
FAA sends out to builders includes a detailed check list as well as =
every other=20
document that I know of to register, request inspection, operating =
limitation=20
example, etc along with approved kits list and flight testing AC. All it =
takes=20
to get it is a telephone call. It is pretty complete and if other =
regions=20
don't do that, they could take a lesson from them.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma =
WA =20
I found a great link on Van's page to a =
check list=20
written by an FAA inspector. I recommend it to all as a good =
checklist=20
to follow before FAA (or DAR) inspection. It is http://www.pr=
ovide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm
Dennis Persyk 6A instrument =
panel
Barrington, =
IL
------=_NextPart_000_006E_01BD2E23.0EBC5AC0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trip to Alaska |
Keep us all posted on the Alaska trip. Sounds very interesting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Shirley Hobenshield <shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca>
Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trip to Alaska
>
>>-->
>>
>> I'm starting the planning process for a two week trip to Alaska mid
>>May time frame in my -6A. Route of travel will be from New England to
>>Rochester Mn, then on up to the Calgary, Canada area and following the
>>Alcan Highway to Juno and Fairbanks (& who knows from there...).
>
>>
>>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
>\
>
>Fred, if you want a stop-over and return thru B.C., you may follow back
>down from Alaska on the Hwy. 37 to Junction yellowhead at my home where
>RV-6 C-FXXG lives. Smithers is 20 minutes away and has fuel etc.
>
>Love to show you around, we have mountians but nothing a RV can't handle.
>Get in touch thru Shirley's address if you would like more info.
>
>Ed Hobenshield
>- Private field, Kitwanga B.C. (even 150 Cessana's fly off this strip )
>
>
>Shirley Hobenshield shobenshield(at)cmsd.bc.ca
>Kitwanga, BC, Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
Curious as to what size bolt a .305 reamer is for?
The RV-6s, and I believe the RV-4s also, use AN365 nuts on the spar bolts.
But you may be right about the use of tension versus shear bolts being a
convenience not a requirement. Again, I would suggest you check with Van's
on this if there is any question as to what hardware should be used on
the -3 spar.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>I'm now using a .305 reamer in a drill press which gives a tight fit
>with hardware store bolts (just used for fitting the wing) ground down a
>bit.
>That should give a real press fit for the NAS bolts.
>
>Don't you find it interesting that NAS13xx are tension bolts and NAS11xx
>are shear bolts, yet the specified nuts for these bolts in Van's design
>are AN364- shear nuts!
>
>and that NAS13xx were chosen because they were available>> >
>> >Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Quick Release for Passenger Control Stick |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD2E4E.23B170C0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD2E4E.23B170C0
What is an acceptable quick release fitting to replace the AN3-13A bolt =
and nut used to secure the removable passenger-side control stick (dwg =
41 R4 for 6/A)? The AN393-13 Clevis Pin (MS20392-2C13) is to be used for =
"secondary controls not subject to continuous operation" =96 I need a =
translation!
Would an MS17985-313 Quick Release pin be acceptable, and do such things =
exist? The A/S catalog lists only a couple of -4 sizes. Advice from A&P =
types would be appreciated!
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage - pondering controls
Barrington, IL
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD2E4E.23B170C0
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
What is an acceptable quick release fitting to replace the AN3-13A =
bolt and=20
nut used to secure the removable passenger-side control stick (dwg 41 R4 =
for=20
6/A)? The AN393-13 Clevis Pin (MS20392-2C13) is to be used for =
"secondary=20
controls not subject to continuous operation" – I need a=20
translation!
Would an MS17985-313 Quick Release pin be acceptable, and do such =
things=20
exist? The A/S catalog lists only a couple of -4 sizes. Advice from =
A&P=20
types would be appreciated!
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage - pondering=20
controls
Barrington, IL
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01BD2E4E.23B170C0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dukeav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
I prefer Metalprep over Alumiprep for the reason that you can use it on steel
also. I believe they cost the same.
To use either:
- Make sure part is clean before using; MEK, acetone, etc.
- Spray, brush or dip part with Metalprep / Alumiprep. Plant sprayers work
well. Of course, do not reuse a sprayer for different products. Dedicate a
sprayer for Metalprep / Alumiprep.
- Use rubber or plastic containers and synthetic brushes or sponges ( acid
reistant ).
- Use minimum strength and duration recommended on label ( more is not
better ).
- Rinse well with water to remove residual chemicals.
- If surface drys before rinse, rewet with Metalprep / Alumiprep.
- Finish the part soon therafter, alodine, prime.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
>
>
><< Several factors affect what gross weight should be set at, I believe. >>
>
>Not the least of which should be airframe ultimate strength !!!!!
>messing around with gross weight is something that is best done by very
>careful stress analysis. Most people forget that unlike a car, an airplane can
>have an EFFECTIVE weight of 3-4 times the gross weight at rest. if your RV
>weighs 1200 lb. on the ground, guess what, In a normal 45 degree bank it now
>has an effective weight of 2400 lbs. and so on...............
>
I believe a properly coordinated 60 degree banked turn while maintaining
altitude yields 2 g's. Strongly agree with all else you have said, though.
Frankly, when you first look at your kit and see the "raw" materials used to
construct an RV, it's amazing that it doesn't crumple into a heap! They're
so flimsy and light. But due to the miracles of modern monocoque design,
this stuff becomes STRONG!! Simply amazing.......
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Elevators and selling stuff
for wing kit money.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv-6a sliding canopy |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>
><< Prior to installing the plastic canopy on the metal frame, the
>rollers
> worked o.k. Now that the plastic is installed the rollers slide
>instead
> of rolling. If i push the canopy in from the side the rollers work
> fine.Any suggesting on how to fix the problem without removing the
> plastic from the
frame.
> Jack Anderson
> Boulder City, Nv
> rv-6a flying but not painted
> >>
This is a problem that sometimes occurs with the sliding canopies but not
only while building. Over time, it seems that just from the weight of
the canopy on the frame, and from passengers accidently putting weight on
it (even after you tell them not to) it gets bowed out enough to not
slide smoothly.
The only fix I have found (I have done it twice on my airplane in almost
5 years of flying) is to remove the canopy from the airplane,
take it somewhere that it will get warmed up very well (I'd try and get
the whole thing at least above 80 deg F., and start squeezing the frame
at the bottom where the rollers attach until you get the width you need.
Go slowly, don't be in a hurry. I would caution against using this
process though, unless you are sure you nicely finished all the edges and
very cleanly debured all the rivet holes.
Disclaimer follows:
Even though I have done this on 3 different RV-6A canopies, there is of
course no guaranty that yours wont break.
BTW the UMPS tape sounds like a good idea to help keep it working
smoothly but from my experience lubing the track is a bad idea. It helps
for a short time but then the lube begins to collect dust and dirt which
makes it slide even worse. Only put lube on the shaft of the roller to
help it roll.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Canopy/fairing strip seal |
About to rivet down the canopy fairing strip in place. Sure looks like it
needs some type of seal between the fiberglass and the canopy. I made it
myself, so the fit is very tight, but will leak water, especially in a few
years.
What do people recommend?
Do it when putting the strip down, a bead of caulk, or a a bead after? And,
what type of material won't bug the plexi?
Bruce Patton
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Quick Release for Passenger Control Stick |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>What is an acceptable quick release fitting to replace the AN3-13A
>bolt =
>and nut used to secure the removable passenger-side control stick (dwg
>=
>41 R4 for 6/A)? The AN393-13 Clevis Pin (MS20392-2C13) is to be used
>for =
>"secondary controls not subject to continuous operation" =96 I need a
>=
>translation!
>
>Would an MS17985-313 Quick Release pin be acceptable, and do such
>things =
>exist? The A/S catalog lists only a couple of -4 sizes. Advice from
>A&P =
>types would be appreciated!
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage - pondering controls
>
>Barrington, IL
>
>
In my airplane the right hand stick is not a primary flight control, it
is only there to allow a passenger to fly the airplane "intermittently".
I used the inexpensive type of 3/16 " pin that has a spring loaded ball
in one end and a pull ring on the other end (they are easily cut to
length) Available at hardware stores.
BTW this is what we have installed for the removable rear stick on the
yellow RV-8. We connected the pin to the stick with a short piece of
small cable which keeps the two from being separated.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
<< All this to say that when running oxygenated auto fuel
in your planes, full rich on the mixture knob is not quite as rich as it is
when running avgas.... >>
Speaking of oxygenated fuel, one might want to consider what effect this fuel
has on a E.F.I. engine. The oxygen sensors sense more oxygen, I believe, and
this does result in less power with that fuel. The fuel, in essence, fools
the sensors. I know that in my Ford Van, the oxygenated fuel,
although I have not had any trouble with it, does not produce either the power
or the economy of the non-oxygenated stuff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Reading the slide canopy discussion, I wondered if the canopy would
force or bulge the side rails out on the tip-up. Or is the frame ridged
enough that it doesn't happen?
Is it better to take the side rail skin below the longeron or just
even with the longeron?
I'm a bit nervous about slicing the canopy in to at the roll bar.
Would be better to drill the canopy in place after cut it in two so as to
adjust the gap between front and back pieces for a very small gap?
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com> |
| Subject: | What have I forgotten? |
Hi all,
I'm at the point where I am about to start skinning the fuse and have
started to get paranoid about what I have forgotten to do before the
skin is on and it's too late (or much more difficult). There are also
some things I am not sure how best to do at this point. Some specific
things I'm losing sleep over and which are causing me to develop a
severe case of builder's block (this is where you do laps around the
jig, make a lot of funny sounds, but don't do anything useful):
- static lines (where to run, what size holes, use bushings?)
- steps (when should these be fitted?)
- holes for wiring (where are the best places to route wires?)
- the angles at the rear bulkheads used for attaching the HS
(is it easier to put these in now, or wait until the
fuse is turned over?)
- baggage compartment sides (put in now or later? Seems easier
now, but may get in the way later, or if removed to
do the skins, may not line up when all is said and done)
So... any advice? What things did you not do before skinning the fuse
and would have gladly given away your new Lycoming to go back and get a
second chance?
Thanks in advance.
Tom Goeddel
RV-6a (some day - it'll be the one with the antique tail...)
tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel pump failure |
>Reading the electric/mech. fuel pump discussion about a clogged engine
>driven fuel pump and the electrical not being able to feed I was wondering
>if there are systems with a bypass so the electric pump could supply
>regardless of the condition of the engine pump?
Mechanical fuel pumps are designed so that fuel is *supposed* to be able to
flow through them when they are not operating. That's how the electric
boost pump 'primes' the engine prior to start.
Having said that, there was an AD a few months ago on some mechanical fuel
pumps. Due to a manufacturing defect, a failure mode existed that would
block all flow through the pump. This causes at least one forced-landing
that I am aware of.
Though all production aircraft equipped with a boost pump have the two
pumps in series (at least all that I am familiar with), a couple of friends
and I have debated the merits of plumbing our pumps in parallel with check
valves to avoid this particular failure mode. In the end though, I put
mine in series.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
almost flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab-AND CHANGES TO MANUAL |
And don't forget there are many other references available in addition to
the manual. I think the Ornoff videos covered the cutting mentioned below.
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
RV-8 emp.
Advance, NC
On Friday, January 30, 1998 12:01 AM, David Carter
[SMTP:dcarter(at)datarecall.net] wrote:
>
> >RV-List message posted by: donspawn(at)juno.com: If the final cut is only
1/8" it makes a >very nice tight curl with little resistance to the
shearing action and just . . .
>
> >Then Don Jordan writes to Scott McDaniels: "Tell the boss that needs to
be in the Manuel. >Very good point."
>
> I agree it should be in manual. "It" is a good example of at least a
> dozen or more other kinds of tips that could be in the manual, to reduce
> "re-inventing the wheel", or, more to the point, "reduce repeating
> mistakes" and "reducing time spent studying/calling".
>
> All my calls suggesting changes result in good guidance, but laced with
> the standard, "Just study harder, you're doing this for education, not
> just to build your cross-country dream machine. And, the manual will
> get too big, etc, etc." - or something to that effect (other than "the
> effect" of getting improvements to the manual).
>
> David Carter, Nederland, TX; HS stab skeleton: Shortening H405 and H608
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | General - Fuel bypass valve |
Hi all
Has anyone used a fuel bypass valve on a carb engine?
Does the electric fuel pump need this type of valve in parallel (as
mentioned in Tony B's book)?
Thanks
Royce Craven
RV6A
Melbourne Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: re:Smooth surfaces required? |
It took me about 100 hours to build the wing spars because of the condition of
the raw aluminum supplied. I may have over done it, but I figured that this was
a good place to invest some time. To finish the surface of the flange strips,
start with 100 or 120 grit in a random orbit sander. Follow that by 220 and
then with scotchbrite, again on the random orbit sander. If you eliminate
any irregularities with the course grit, you will end up with satin flange strips.
Good luck
Brian Eckstein
fitting ailerons and flaps
----------
>
> What about scratches on the flat surfaces of the spar flanges, not the edges?
> Do these have to be taken out?
> By taking out these draw marks on the flat surface, I would be removing quite
> a bit of material in the spar flanges I have (these are the thin ones that are
> not tapered in the pre-punched kit). I have about 6 parallel scratches all
> side by side.over about 1/4" in width, not real deep maybe 0.005".
> Any advice?
>
> John L. Danielson
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator/Voltage Regulator |
<< If it is an
>ND type with internal regulator, do I still need to install an external
voltage regulator? >>
No, but a crowbar OV module from Bob Nuckolls would probably be a good safety
addition.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What have I forgotten? |
I am waiting until my wings are on to do the steps and that means I'm not
finishing the floor installation either. The reason is that I saw one -6A
built by a well-known, multi-time builder, with the steps installed prior to
mounting the wings. The owner ended up trimming off the flaps to get them
to fit around the steps(ughly). I retrofitted one to my first -6A after it
was flying and it wasn't that hard.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Hi all,
>
> - steps (when should these be fitted?)
>
>Tom Goeddel
>RV-6a (some day - it'll be the one with the antique tail...)
>tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load |
I don't think the side rails on the tip-up canopy will bulge out, at least
it didn't on my first -6A. I fitted the side skins below the longerons on
both. Liked it on my first.
If you can get the newer style canopy to lay on the roll bar to drill it
without cutting it too short, you're a better man than I. I ended up
cutting it when it was about two inches away from it after I had cut too
much off the front trying to get it to lay on the roll bar. I had no such
problems on the older style canopy. Leave yourself lots of margin on the
first trim. I wouldn't cut it to the length stated in the instructions
until you have an idea of how its going to fit. If you do cut it to length
first, I would measure the length from the rear to the front, not the other
way like I did. Someone on the list is supposed to have a detailed guide on
this, but I've never been able to find it on their page.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
> Reading the slide canopy discussion, I wondered if the canopy would
>force or bulge the side rails out on the tip-up. Or is the frame ridged
>enough that it doesn't happen?
>
> Is it better to take the side rail skin below the longeron or just
>even with the longeron?
>
> I'm a bit nervous about slicing the canopy in to at the roll bar.
>Would be better to drill the canopy in place after cut it in two so as to
>adjust the gap between front and back pieces for a very small gap?
>
>
>Have a Great Day!
> denny-->> RV-6
> harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What have I forgotten? |
<< - static lines (where to run, what size holes, use bushings?)>>
<< - holes for wiring (where are the best places to route wires?)>>
<< - baggage compartment sides (put in now or later? Seems easier
now, but may get in the way later, or if removed to
do the skins, may not line up when all is said and done)>>
Anytime before first flight.
<< - steps (when should these be fitted?)>>
Before permanent installation of baggage floor.
<< - the angles at the rear bulkheads used for attaching the HS
(is it easier to put these in now, or wait until the
fuse is turned over?)>>
When you level the tail end and drill the shear plate.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
>I know that in my Ford Van, the oxygenated fuel,
>although I have not had any trouble with it, does not produce either the power
>or the economy of the non-oxygenated stuff.
>
This is correct. Your mileage will usually drop noticably when using the
oxy-fuel (only in the winter here in Oregon). Your oxygen sensors detect a
lean condition when injecting the "normal" amount of fuel necessary for a
proper mixture with non-oxy fuel. The computer then compensates by
increasing the pulse width of the injectors which allows more fuel per
intake cycle with the same amount on air. VOILA!! Less fuel economy and
less power.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Elevators and selling stuff
for wing kit money.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tie Down Bracket |
Listers:
Regarding the W422 Tie Down Bracket (RV4 plans, Drawing 18): It attaches next
to and bolts through a spreader angle and also bolts through the spar web and
the top spar flange strip. There is a pre-drilled hole for the angle, but not
one for the Tie Down Bracket. I assume I am to drill the hole there, but am
hesitant to drill into any spar flange strips except if it says to directly in
the plans.
Also, I have a builder's tip: I installed anti-head-gashing units on my wing
jig angles. The angles are 1 1/2 inch steel angle. The ends are nicely
protected with tennis balls. Just cut an L shaped slot and slip them over the
ends of the angles. They are soft and brightly colored and will prevent those
unsightly head wounds.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load |
Les, I have already cut the canopy to length and at the dead center of the
aft side of the roll bar the canopy is up about a quarter of an inch off the
bar with no pressure on it. But at the F-631A roll bar of the frame, the
canopy is up what looks like a 1/2 to 3/4" with the bottom of the frame
parallel with the longeron. I assume (?) I am to raise the F-631A roll bar
until it seats under the canopy with the sides of the frame still parallal
to the longeron for the frame roll bars final position before drilling the
canopy and the frame together.
The sides at the roll bar area are about an 1 1/2" away from the frame. I
am hoping this won't pull the frame sides out.
I wonder about drilling the aft part of the canopy to the roll bar before
cutting the canopy in two at the roll bar. Then cut it in two, clean up the
edges fit the portions and then drill it to the frame to get a smaller gap
between the two. Or the other way around and drill to the frame, clean it
up and slide the aft part closer for better fit before drilling the aft part
into postion. ??
Any ideas on these thoughts?
Someone posted he thought Will Cretsinger made some tip-up instruction, but
I did see anything posted after that. Will, if your out there.....help!
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Toad <toad(at)favorites.com> |
Each Night a few of us get into a chat room just to hash over Ideas we
see here on the rv list or to help each other out in out various stages
of construction, Others get into comparing notes about how their bird
fly's or plan trips etc. The chat room has been very beneficial to me in
pursuit of building one of the rv's. I have also got to meet some very
knowledgable pilots/builders. The stories are top notch.
Come join us at approx 8:00pm mst
from the web, go to; http://www.rconline.com follow link to chat
irc client software point to server; rco.iglobal.net port 6667
when on the server, type /join #rvchat to create or join the room.
It has been a lot of fun, hope to see ya there tonight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate |
engines)
if your RV
>weighs 1200 lb. on the ground, guess what, In a normal 45 degree bank it now
>has an effective weight of 2400 lbs. and so on...............
It takes a 60 deg. bank to produce a load factor of 2..
Scott Gesele N506RV- Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load |
Denny, I was told by Van's to cut it first if it wasn't laying on the roll
bar and that it would drop in place when I did so. That seemed to work
okay. Then I fitted and drilled the rear in place. I think it's important
to try and hold the sides in while drilling the front to the canopy frame
bow as the horizontal position of the end cut changes when it is pulled in
place. I initially drilled it to the bow center to position it fore and
aft, then pulled it in, taped it, and finished drilling down each side of
the bow. When drilling the sides, be sure to keep the front held down in
place as it will tend to creep up and you will end up with a bulge at the
front corner. These comments are from my experiences and others may be
different. Hope they help some and that you find Will Cretsinger's info as
well.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>
>Les, I have already cut the canopy to length and at the dead center of the
>aft side of the roll bar the canopy is up about a quarter of an inch off
the
>bar with no pressure on it. But at the F-631A roll bar of the frame, the
>canopy is up what looks like a 1/2 to 3/4" with the bottom of the frame
>parallel with the longeron. I assume (?) I am to raise the F-631A roll bar
>until it seats under the canopy with the sides of the frame still parallal
>to the longeron for the frame roll bars final position before drilling the
>canopy and the frame together.
>
> The sides at the roll bar area are about an 1 1/2" away from the frame. I
>am hoping this won't pull the frame sides out.
>
>I wonder about drilling the aft part of the canopy to the roll bar before
>cutting the canopy in two at the roll bar. Then cut it in two, clean up
the
>edges fit the portions and then drill it to the frame to get a smaller gap
>between the two. Or the other way around and drill to the frame, clean it
>up and slide the aft part closer for better fit before drilling the aft
part
>into postion. ??
>
>Any ideas on these thoughts?
>
> Someone posted he thought Will Cretsinger made some tip-up instruction,
but
>I did see anything posted after that. Will, if your out there.....help!
>
>
>Have a Great Day!
> denny-->> RV-6
> harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >
> >While examining under the hood I noticed a candle wax or bees wax like
> >substance that had dripped out of the rear of my starter and splattered
> >on top of the filtered air box. The substance looks exactly like wax,
> >not grease or whatever the starter windings are dipped in. There is no
> >burnt odor or any indications of starter malfunction. There was still
> >one drop which had solidified on the aft bottom of the starter housing
> >waiting to get hot and drip.
> >
> >What is this stuff and why is it there
>
> What make of starter is it?
>
> Bob . . .
Bob, it is an Electrosystems, Inc. its the unit that was installed on the engine
when
I purchased the engine from Vans.
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Daniel Potter <dpotter(at)qnet.com> |
| Subject: | Vans Wing Tips for Sale |
I have an unused set of vans wing tips for sale for $200. Will pay
shiping anywhere in the US.
Contact me offline if you are interested.
Dan Potter
dpotter(at)qnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load |
*** snip ***
>Any ideas on these thoughts?
>
> Someone posted he thought Will Cretsinger made some tip-up instruction, but
>I did see anything posted after that. Will, if your out there.....help!
RV-listers building tip-up canopies ....
Will Cretsinger's tip up canopy building notes have been added to my
web site ... point to:
http://www.flash.net/~gila
and you'll find all of Will's notes parked behind the small red RV6As.
Thanks Will!
Gil (just providing a location) Alexander
> denny-->> RV-6
> harje(at)proaxis.com
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Step Problem 6/A |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BD2F06.03A50EA0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BD2F06.03A50EA0
Seeing the recent post about when to install steps reminded me of an =
apparent problem with the Wd-657 step plans and instructions.
Drawing 'WD-657 INSTALLATIO R1" calls out mounting the torque tube =
flush against the F623 web. I did that and when the plate is snugged =
against the skin the torque tube tilts towards the bottom skin. The =
result is that I had to cut away a major fraction of the F6125 UHMW =
block to accommodate the tilted tube and shim the mounting plate to =
reduce the tilt. The picture in the upper right corner of the 8-picture =
sheet looks to me as if Van's drilled the hole ABOVE the plane of the =
F623 web, so perhaps this is a case of "do what I do, not what I say".
I suggest drilling the hole such that the torque tube is 1/4 inch away =
from the F623 web so that you can utilize the F6125 block as supplied.
Two other 6A builders near me (QB and slow build 6As) had exactly the =
same problem, so be warned!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BD2F06.03A50EA0
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Seeing the recent post about when to install =
steps=20
reminded me of an apparent problem with the Wd-657 step plans and=20
instructions.
Drawing 'WD-657 INSTALLATIO R1" =
calls out=20
mounting the torque tube flush against the F623 web. I did that =
and when=20
the plate is snugged against the skin the torque tube tilts towards the =
bottom=20
skin. The result is that I had to cut away a major fraction of the =
F6125=20
UHMW block to accommodate the tilted tube and shim the mounting plate to =
reduce=20
the tilt. The picture in the upper right corner of the 8-picture =
sheet=20
looks to me as if Van's drilled the hole ABOVE the plane of =
the F623=20
web, so perhaps this is a case of "do what I do, not what I=20
say".
I suggest drilling the hole such that =
the torque=20
tube is 1/4 inch away from the F623 web so that you can utilize the =
F6125 block=20
as supplied.
Two other 6A builders near me (QB and slow =
build 6As)=20
had exactly the same problem, so be warned!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BD2F06.03A50EA0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What have I forgotten? |
>Hi all,
*** snip ***
>So... any advice? What things did you not do before skinning the fuse
>and would have gladly given away your new Lycoming to go back and get a
>second chance?
Tom,
... If you are going with the electric flap option, I would mount
the flap drive weldment before skinning, since it will be much easier to
mount the two outer UHMW tube mounts.
If you have the manual option, it's not as critical since the UHMW
mounts are attached in front of F-605, while with the electric flaps they
are mounted on the aft face of F-605.
... hope this helps ... Gil (it was a pain to drill) Alexander
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Tom Goeddel
>tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com
Mounting ELT antenna and cables
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What have I forgotten? |
<< I am waiting until my wings are on to do the steps and that means I'm not
finishing the floor installation either. The reason is that I saw one -6A
built by a well-known, multi-time builder, with the steps installed prior to
mounting the wings. The owner ended up trimming off the flaps to get them
to fit around the steps(ugly) >>
Then he must not have followed the dimensions in the plans very well. Mine
are per print and there's about 1/2" from the flap TE to the step tube.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What have I forgotten? |
> - static lines (where to run, what size holes, use bushings?)
> - holes for wiring (where are the best places to route wires?)
>Tom Goeddel
Tom,
You might consider beveling the F-604 F, the "U" shaped piece that rivets
to the longeron and F-604 B on both sides. This will give you some room
under the F 621 B canopy deck for the static line and any antenna wiring or
tail light wiring. You'd want to really smooth the 604 F and probably use
some spiral wrap to tie everything in a bundle and to keep the 604 F from
ruggin any wires, etc.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hr. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What have I forgotten? |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
> - static lines (where to run, what size holes, use bushings?)
> - steps (when should these be fitted?)
> - holes for wiring (where are the best places to route wires?)
> - the angles at the rear bulkheads used for attaching the HS
> (is it easier to put these in now, or wait until the
> fuse is turned over?)
> - baggage compartment sides (put in now or later? Seems easier
>
These are excellent questions, most of which I didn't even think of in my
excitement to start getting some of those big pieces of skin on.
Luckily, the order described in the instructions works pretty well, and
doesn't box you in much. I would leave all of these things until after
you get the fuse out of the jig and turned upright. Once you get the
"boat" at the proper height, it is very easy to work on the inside by
just leaning over the top rail.
As to the specific questions, I recommend getting Van's static kit.
Cheap, effective, works well. Has instructions and all parts to answer
your questions. I didn't do the steps, so I'm not sure of the optimal
time. Wiring has no definitive answer. It is a pain no matter when you
do it. I found that it worked best to be sure that all items that the
wire will attach to are in place first. Engine, wings, etc. This makes
it tougher to drill the holes, but insures that you don't end up drilling
a bunch of holes in the wrong place. Everything else I would do in
order.
However, there is one BIG "gotcha" waiting when you start putting on the
top skins. Be SURE to drill and attach the brackets to the rear of the
longerons that holds the aft end of the shoulder harness cable. I
drilled them before skinning, but for some reason didn't attach them
until the skin was on. Guess what? The bolts are just a *little* too
long to line up because they hit the curve of the skin ARRGH!
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy tip-up type |
I have had the canopy on and off 16 times to this point and a cut
after each time. Excessive, (?) it seems like it to me, too! The reason
was I was not sure what would happen to the distance over roll bar as the
geometry of the front changed. I am not recommending this procedure. For
those with more mechanically skill or a better understanding of the
procedure can do better then this exercise in frustration. I take about 6 to
8 runs to complete one cut...fear of heat stress is one of my reasons.
I didn't rivet the front canopy skin in place, I left it clecoed
because I was puzzling out the corner where the canopy finishes the curve
over the skin and starts back towards the roll bar. I just finished taking
the canopy skin off and trimming it after marking the approximate location
of the canopy in relation to the skin and frame (Wd-625A). It was the only
way I could think of to make this area transition smoother.
Les, it sounds like my next step should be to cut the canopy in two
and drill the aft portion in place. Then adjust the frame bow up (and
possibly the front of the canopy) so the profile and edge transition to the
cabin frame is smooth.
Dennis, the suggestion from your group sounds valid for any large
gap between the canopy and the cabin roll bar. I have heard or read
somewhere in the past that cutting and letting drop into place worked out
fine. But I have trouble seeing how. It seems to me that would give a
broken back look, if you follow my meaning. Or is that compensated with the
front cut? I hope the I can adjust that tranition area as I said above, as
I only have a 1/4 between the cabin roll bar and the canopy.
Does this sound reasonable to you guys?
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load |
>
> Will Cretsinger's tip up canopy building notes have been added to my
>web site ... point to:
>
>http://www.flash.net/~gila
Thanks Will and Thanks Gil!
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT8127(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Exhaust Cracking |
boundary="part0_886365928_boundary"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--part0_886365928_boundary
--part0_886365928_boundary
From: PILOT8127(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Exhaust Cracking
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:40:17 EST
Scott,
I ordered the High-Country exhaust from VAN'S Fri. afternoon. John (at Van's)
was very helpful. Larry Vetterman was there, installing a H-C exh. system on a
O-360. The two of them made sure I got the right one ordered. It turns out
that I may have a custom built or possibly modified Tolle X-Over system
installed now. John said that a 4-pipe system is standard. I got the
indication that a cross-over system would not fit properly on an RV-3. I went
ahead and posted this to the list. Instead of replying to Scott "offline". I
hope this helps the other builders. The Tolle system now installed has cracked
twice. Within 20 hrs. of operation no less. It's time for a change.
Thanks Scott, and everyone else that replied. Gary and N5AJ RV-3,
slider, 160
--part0_886365928_boundary--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
Well, I wondered what I'd screw up next, and it looks like I've found
out. Last night I drilled my skins to my HS skeleton. All the holes were
more or less on the center of all rib/spar flanges, but when I took it
all apart, I noticed that I had missed edge distance on 4 holes. These
offending holes are located at the junctures where the 405 and 608 ribs
meet the front spar. They are the last hole on each side of these 4
ribs, where a rivet would go through the skin, front spar, then rib. I
drilled in the center of the front spar, I only missed on the ribs. I
missed the edge distance so badly that I'm sure there is no way to
"safely" get a rivet in there. I figure I have 2 options, and I thought
I'd ask the list.
1. Cut away the flange on the rib and leave it, so the rivet will just
go through the skin and the front spar, and miss the rib entirely. I'm
not sure how critical these last holes are on the ribs, but it looks
like the spar is supporting the skins here, unless the rib supports the
spar? (chordwise)
2. Cut away the flanges and rivet a new flange in place. If I go this
route, how much flange should I cut away? I'd probably cut down to 2d of
the next hole down, then use at least 2 AD-4 rivets to hold the new
flange in place. What is the min pitch for 1/8" rivets? I believe it's
3d for skins, but does this also go for structural rivets, or is it
more?
Did anyone else have this problem? All my HS skeleton measurements look
ok, and it's straight in the jig, so how did I miss on these 4 holes???
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
Thinking of opening a scrap yard with all my "bad" RV parts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Vertical Stab. Cracks |
Yesterday the Sun finally snuck out from under the clouds and fog. I fired
up the pink panther and flew of to the land of Vikings and Cheeseheads
(wounded, not mortally) for the MN Rvator meeting at South St Paul airport.
One of the topics discussed there was cracking thru the rivit holes on the
vertical stab. As soon as the meeting was over I went out and looked at my
stab and sure enuf there was a crack about 3/8" NE and SW of a rivit head
near the trailing edge, down near the bottom of the vertical stab. Paul
Irlbeck looked and suggested that since she has about 320hrs TT just to stop
drill it and watch. I can't believe I had never seen it before, just goes
to show you have to keep your eyes open.
It was my first meeting, met some nice folks and learned alot too.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
As an afterthought to my original post, I missed the edge distance on
these rivets vertically, as if the rib were too short, or the spar was
too high. All my holes were dead center of the ribs.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
MoeJoe wrote:
>
>
> Well, I wondered what I'd screw up next, and it looks like I've found
> out. Last night I drilled my skins to my HS skeleton. All the holes were
> more or less on the center of all rib/spar flanges, but when I took it
> all apart, I noticed that I had missed edge distance on 4 holes. These
> offending holes are located at the junctures where the 405 and 608 ribs
> meet the front spar. They are the last hole on each side of these 4
> ribs, where a rivet would go through the skin, front spar, then rib. I
> drilled in the center of the front spar, I only missed on the ribs. I
> missed the edge distance so badly that I'm sure there is no way to
> "safely" get a rivet in there. I figure I have 2 options, and I thought
> I'd ask the list.
>
> 1. Cut away the flange on the rib and leave it, so the rivet will just
> go through the skin and the front spar, and miss the rib entirely. I'm
> not sure how critical these last holes are on the ribs, but it looks
> like the spar is supporting the skins here, unless the rib supports the
> spar? (chordwise)
>
> 2. Cut away the flanges and rivet a new flange in place. If I go this
> route, how much flange should I cut away? I'd probably cut down to 2d of
> the next hole down, then use at least 2 AD-4 rivets to hold the new
> flange in place. What is the min pitch for 1/8" rivets? I believe it's
> 3d for skins, but does this also go for structural rivets, or is it
> more?
>
> Did anyone else have this problem? All my HS skeleton measurements look
> ok, and it's straight in the jig, so how did I miss on these 4 holes???
>
> Moe Colontonio
> RV-8
> Thinking of opening a scrap yard with all my "bad" RV parts
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load, : ( & lecture write up |
<< I think it's important
to try and hold the sides in while drilling the front to the canopy frame
bow as the horizontal position of the end cut changes when it is pulled in
place. I initially drilled it to the bow center to position it fore and
aft, then pulled it in, taped it, and finished drilling down each side of
the bow. When drilling the sides, be sure to keep the front held down in
place as it will tend to creep up and you will end up with a bulge at the
front corner. These comments are from my experiences and others may be
different. Hope they help some and that you find Will Cretsinger's info as
well. >>
Speaking from experience here.... I recommend that you do not drill the canopy
while under any stress, taped down or forced inward to fight out buldges.
Mark it while taped and located properly, then pull back and drill in a free
state. And drill in a slow scraping cut, minimal pressure, of course with
plexi bits.
You may pull it in with screws later to fit it all to the frame. But a sharp
piercing point under stress might get you a certian disaster, if you are un
lucky like I. My last hole being drilled on the LH forward (tip up)
direction did snap/crackle and a 8 inch crack into the canopy was the reward.
JUNK.
I have my second one done now and have done another friends too. It isn't all
that difficult after all. But you need to be well informed in what probably
would yield the least potential of breakage and success. Study up, trust me
you don't want to be one of the unlucky ones.. $$ ; ) .
I don't know if my notes are what RV listers might be looking for, I got lots
of requests from the list after the lecture I gave this summer. They will
come to you in a *.awd file extension. Which is windows95 fax viewer.
There is a drawing which accompanies it too. You may write/e mail me at
McManD(at)aol.com
This for my 1997 EAA Oswego 2nd annual RV forum lecture, hand out on Tip up
canopy fabrication. It was well recieved, there were tear filled eyes and many
a grown sounded, as I offered the display/review of my first canopy. All eyes
were trained on the crack which made it junk as we studied my disasterous
first attempt at canopy fabrication.
Respectfully, Dave McManmon Cicero NY RV6, on gear, canopy done (Wheeeew)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
I am working on the wing tip and I'm having a little trouble on the fit
up. I have the tip trimed and fitted in place and the top holes
drilled. The first problem is that with the tip level with the top of
the wing at the front spar it is above level at the rear spar. Is it
normal for the tips to have a slight up sweep at the trailing corner?
Second, my ailerons are aligned perfectly with the flaps in the up
position and the tooling holes on the last outboard rib. The trailing
end of the tip is approx. 3/8" higher than the aileron. Have others had
the same problems? I'm planning to split the trailing edge, pull it
down into place and re glue it.
Thanks for the input.
Frank Smidler
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate |
engines)
Hello Listers;
One thing I am sure that all RV pilots will agree upon, regardless of
the horsepower, try a solo takeoff with half full tanks and feel for
yourself what weight does for you and how important weight is.
John kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Solana" <solanas(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | firewall ground bolt |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01BD2F4B.D26AA8E0"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BD2F4B.D26AA8E0
A simple minded question --- If I put a large bolt through the firewall =
for the main ground, is a normal bolt OK, or should it be made out of =
copper? The only reason this came to mind is because I noticed that the =
large bolts on the solenoids are all a copper color!!!
Thanks,=20
Rick Solana, -6a
panel in and engine on, working on wiring
Richmond, VA
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BD2F4B.D26AA8E0
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
A simple minded question --- If I =
put a large=20
bolt through the firewall for the main ground, is a normal bolt OK, or =
should it=20
be made out of copper? The only reason this came to mind is =
because I=20
noticed that the large bolts on the solenoids are all a copper=20
color!!!
Thanks,
Rick Solana, -6a
panel in and engine on, working on =
wiring
Richmond, VA
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01BD2F4B.D26AA8E0--
________________________________________________________________________________
<34D4EAF6.F1E70D25(at)erols.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Well, I wondered what I'd screw up next, and it looks like I've found
>out. Last night I drilled my skins to my HS skeleton. All the holes
>were
>more or less on the center of all rib/spar flanges, but when I took it
>all apart, I noticed that I had missed edge distance on 4 holes. These
>offending holes are located at the junctures where the 405 and 608
>ribs
>meet the front spar. They are the last hole on each side of these 4
>ribs, where a rivet would go through the skin, front spar, then rib. I
>drilled in the center of the front spar, I only missed on the ribs. I
>missed the edge distance so badly that I'm sure there is no way to
>"safely" get a rivet in there. I figure I have 2 options, and I
>thought
>I'd ask the list.
>
>1. Cut away the flange on the rib and leave it, so the rivet will just
>go through the skin and the front spar, and miss the rib entirely. I'm
>not sure how critical these last holes are on the ribs, but it looks
>like the spar is supporting the skins here, unless the rib supports
>the
>spar? (chordwise)
>
>2. Cut away the flanges and rivet a new flange in place. If I go this
>route, how much flange should I cut away? I'd probably cut down to 2d
>of
>the next hole down, then use at least 2 AD-4 rivets to hold the new
>flange in place. What is the min pitch for 1/8" rivets? I believe it's
>3d for skins, but does this also go for structural rivets, or is it
>more?
>
>Did anyone else have this problem? All my HS skeleton measurements
>look
>ok, and it's straight in the jig, so how did I miss on these 4
>holes???
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8
>Thinking of opening a scrap yard with all my "bad" RV parts
>
>
>
Moe,
Don't scrap anything. I think you did just fine. As long as you hit the
center of the spar flange you shouldn't need to correct anything.
Occasionally because of the way that a part has to be formed, it may not
nest into another part as far as would be ideal (to allow for clearance
on the radius of the spar flange bends, etc.)
I know that it appears to break the edge distance rule that you are just
now trying to learn but in this instance it is not a problem.
Leave the parts as they are and put on the skin. It sounds like you got
it aligned pretty well.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
Fellow listers,
Today I spent all day riveting all my bulkheads together and mounting
the firewall to the jig. After careful measuring the firewall actually
is positioned were I wanted it. Pretty amazing (at least I think so)
Anyway, the question. With the help of my trusty helper (my wife) we
bent the top longerons as described in the manual and in Frank J's
supplement. After laying them on the jig and positioning them for width
at each station they fit great except at the firewall weldments. At the
firewall the weldments are cocked so that the longerons will be twisted
from the vertical plane. My longerons are vertical at this stage. Did I
do something wrong or should I just twist them and make them fit.? I
just sort of figured that once the longerons were bent they would fall
into place.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993
Jigging the fuselage.....
________________________________________________________________________________
Moe:
I would opt for door number 1. Just cut off the end of the rib
flange and rivet the skin to the fron spar. I too came close in the
areas that you mention (although I am building an RV 6A) but was able to
rivet the rib flanges as well. I did have the same problem that you had
with my VS, and did just as you suggested in option number one. IMHO, I
don't think that this is anything to lose sleep over.
Good luck with the rest of your project. Is this fun, or what??!!
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV 6A ser. no. 25171......On to the Rudder!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3 - NAS bolt specs |
The shank is usually only threaded enough for the nut and three washers;
cutting it down would not change the grip length. Cutting new threads
is a bad idea, because cut threads are weaker than the rolled ones that
the manufacturer provides. You must buy the correct length; it is bad
practice to shorten and/or rethread aircraft bolts.
PatK - RV-6A
JDaniel343(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Could these bolts be cut, not rethreaded, and be used?
> I assume the only reason to cut them is because overall they cannot be
> installed do to their overall length. If after installing and the nut put on,
> if the cut is after the nut would this not be acceptable as long as no
> rethreading is involved?
>
> John L. Danielson
>
f list.
> Also if you want your information on the web page please provide
> answers to the above and I will add you in. Once I have the
> page created I will publish the address to the rv-list for
> all to use.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff Hawkins
> RV-8
> Suwanee, GA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>V-List message posted by: MoeJoe
>
>Well, I wondered what I'd screw up next, and it looks like I've found
>out. Last night I drilled my skins to my HS skeleton. All the holes
were
>more or less on the center of all rib/spar flanges, but when I took it
>all apart, I noticed that I had missed edge distance on 4 holes. These
>offending holes are located at the junctures where the 405 and 608 ribs
>meet the front spar. They are the last hole on each side of these 4
>ribs, where a rivet would go through the skin, front spar, then rib. I
>drilled in the center of the front spar, I only missed on the ribs. I
>missed the edge distance so badly that I'm sure there is no way to
>"safely" get a rivet in there. I figure I have 2 options, and I thought
>I'd ask the list.
>
>1. Cut away the flange on the rib and leave it, so the rivet will just
>go through the skin and the front spar, and miss the rib entirely. I'm
>not sure how critical these last holes are on the ribs, but it looks
>like the spar is supporting the skins here, unless the rib supports the
>spar? (chordwise)
>
>2. Cut away the flanges and rivet a new flange in place. If I go this
>route, how much flange should I cut away? I'd probably cut down to 2d
of
>the next hole down, then use at least 2 AD-4 rivets to hold the new
>flange in place. What is the min pitch for 1/8" rivets? I believe it's
>3d for skins, but does this also go for structural rivets, or is it
>more?
>
>Did anyone else have this problem? All my HS skeleton measurements look
>ok, and it's straight in the jig, so how did I miss on these 4 holes???
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8
>Thinking of opening a scrap yard with all my "bad" RV parts
Moe,
Don't sweat it too much. I don't recall if I encountered this on my HS,
but it rears it's ugly head again later on in the wing kit. Some of the
rib flanges in these type of junctions aren't long enough to capture the
rivet properly, and still allow the rivet hole to be centered in the
other parts in assembly. The skin is extrememly well supported by the
remaining rivets along the rib flanges and the ribs are firmly attached
to the front spar with #4's...so, keep on truckin.
I'm sure I'll get slammed by the more anal types, but Van's advice in
these issues is thus: don't get overly obsessed with it to the point
where the bird never get's in the air.
Oh, before you open your scrap RV parts business, let me know...I have a
few of my own...
Brian "donning flame-proof suit" Denk
-8 #379
flaps, access covers and such
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: firewall ground bolt |
>A simple minded question --- If I put a large bolt through the firewall for
the main ground, is a normal bolt OK, or should it be made out of copper?
The only reason this came to mind is because I noticed that the large bolts
on the solenoids are all a copper color!!!
>Rick Solana, -6a
Rick,
My kind of question. I used a regular bolt. On the engine side, the bolt
head bolted the ground strap to the firewall. On the cockpit side, the bolt
bolted an aluminum angle to the rear of the firewall. On the top part of
the angle was another hole to which the cable from the starter relay
attached. After 3 years, I've not had any grounding problems. I did cover
the firewall connection, both at the firewall and the engine, with "liquid
electrical tape" to keep moisture out. For the engine attach point, I used
the top of the steel plate that I made (similar to the one Van's supplies)
that bolts to the carb bolts and to which you attach the throttle & mixture
cable. I also attached some rubber belting off of this plate to which the
exhaust pipes are attached.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hr. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com> |
| Subject: | Allegro Avionics Engine Analyzer |
Hello,
Have any of your learned gents and ladies have any experience with a
nifty electronic engine analyzer made by Allegro Avionics of Tuscon,
Arizona? Mike Melville of plastic airplane fame apparently has one on
his LongEasy which went on the round-the-world flight with Dick Rutan.
The instrument, called the M816 Lynx, monitors RPM, Manifold Pressuer,
Amps, Volts, OAT, Oil Pressusre, fuel flow, fuel totalizer, EGT, CHT,
and lots of other things. It combines a lot of features into one
instrument and does not seem overly expensive for its capability. It
does a bit more with one 2.25 inch instrument than do the two
Electronics International instruments (US8A Ultimate Analyzer and FP-5
Fuel Flow) which are in Van's catalog.
Anybody know anything about this equipment?
How about some thoughts from the builders in Tucson? You guys familiar
with Allegro Avionics?
Reply offline if you wish. Thanks.
Frank Zeck, North Dakota, RV-4 to fly this summer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS problems: Missed edge dist at rib ends |
David Carter apologizes for longer than normal quote, but this is too
specific to be truncated:
>RV-List message posted by: MoeJoe up next, and it looks like I've found out. Last night I drilled my
skins to my HS skeleton. All >the holes were more or less on the center of all
rib/spar flanges, but when I took it all >apart, I noticed that I had missed
edge distance on 4 holes. These offending holes are located >at the junctures
where the 405 and 608 ribs meet the front spar. They are the last hole on >each
side of these 4 ribs, where a rivet would go through the skin, front spar,
then rib. I > drilled in the center of the front spar, I only missed on the
ribs. I missed the edge distance >so badly that I'm sure there is no way to "safely"
get a rivet in there. I figure I have 2 >options, and I thought > I'd
ask the list.
> ( options 1 & 2 followed, then this question:)
> Did anyone else have this problem? All my HS skeleton measurements look ok,
and it's straight in the jig, so how did I miss on these 4 holes???
Answer from David Carter: Yes, I have the same problem, except I
haven't drilled yet - I stopped day before yesterday when it was obvious
there was going to be no edge distance on those rib ends, exactly as you
described - & I have measureed and quadruple checked and everything is
per plans (pre-punched skins).
There was a thread about 3-4 weeks ago about plans problems. I stayed
out of that one because my only problems at that point were with the
"builders manual" - I had never found any problem with the plans or
parts not working. This, too, may not be a plans problem, but, instead,
a parts problem, either with the fwd end of flanges on 608s & 405s, or
with the prepunched holes that hit the edges of those rib flanges. If
the 4 prepunched holes were repositioned slightly outboard, then there
would be no problem, if I remember right from 2 days ago.
Maybe those of us who haven't drilled yet can tape over the 4 offending
holes and layout 4 new locations slightly outboard that will pick up
adequate edge distance on the rib. How, then, to deal with the 4
unused pre-punched holes? Remove about 3/16 or 1/4 inch of rib flange
material so that the 4 rib flanges don't even extend to that hole?
No problem, like they say on the Van's Builder Support telephone line,
"just figure it out, it's all right there for you to find." "No, we
don't like to change the manual every time someone calls in a problem."
"No, I don't have a database about how many other people have called
about this issue, so I don't know if it is YOUR problem our OUR
problem." [ Ignorance is bliss]
Moe, I sincerely apologize for not posting my problem as I found it two
days ago. If I had, maybe you would have stopped before drilling to
scratch your head like me and wonder long enough to get some more help
from the others. Looking forward to reading the "real solution" from
some other builder.
signed
David Carter, RV-6 empennage (ready to do something about this edge
distance problem so I can continue building my cross-country dream
machine. I'd rather be flying than re-designing and rewriting a
manual.), Nederland, Texas (SE Tex Gulf coast)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 8:46 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones)
>
>Anyway, the question. With the help of my trusty helper (my wife) we
>bent the top longerons as described in the manual and in Frank J's
>supplement. After laying them on the jig and positioning them for width
>at each station they fit great except at the firewall weldments. At the
>firewall the weldments are cocked so that the longerons will be twisted
>from the vertical plane. My longerons are vertical at this stage. Did I
>do something wrong or should I just twist them and make them fit.? I
>just sort of figured that once the longerons were bent they would fall
>into place.
>
Gary,
The longerons require a slight twist from the F602 the to firewall weldment.
It is just a matter of a few degrees. Some builders just make the longerons
fit without pretwist, thereby riveting the longerons with a slight built-in
torsional twist.
More important however is to make sure the weldments point to the inflection
(bend) point on the jig. The only way to check this is to clamp a piece of
straight angle to the weldment and see if it intersects the jig where the
longeron begins its bend.
In my case I had to hold the split weldment bent off to one side with a tiny
C-clamp while I whittled down the other leaf with an angle die grinder and 2
inch sanding disc. Failure to check this will result in a bend in the
straight part of the longeron to match it up to the weldment. The longeron
itself is not suitable for this test as it may by now be non-straight, so
use another piece of angle.
By the way, my wife was also a great help in the longeron-bending saga.
Those of us with supportive wives are really lucky!
Dennis Persyk 6A aileron trim
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load, : ( & lecture write up |
Dave, I understand what you are saying, but you can't very well drill a
matching hole in the plexi when it is an inch or two away from the frame. I
have not ever owned a plexiglas drill bit either. But I've always made sure
to smooth the edges after cutting with a cut-off wheel, and slowly drilling
holes with a 135 degree split point drill bit, before very much moving or
fitting was done and that the material was warm while doing so. I also
never exerted very much force to get it in the proper position and hold it
there either.
I, fortunately, have not had your sad experience with a cracked canopy.
However, if you really want to compare tear jerkers, let me tell you about
this "free" water based paint job I got on my first RV-6A sometime. At one
point, I would have traded a dozen cracked canopies for the resulting
dilemma that I found myself in. But who wants to hear about that? I'd
rather forget it and tell you that, in spite of those troubles, I went on to
win a Bronze Lindy at Oshkosh '94 and that all of the 350 hours that I owned
and flew that plane have been the most memorable ones of my life. I hope
that yours has turned out as well.
Regards, Les
>
>Speaking from experience here.... I recommend that you do not drill the
canopy
>while under any stress, taped down or forced inward to fight out buldges.
>Mark it while taped and located properly, then pull back and drill in a
free
>state. And drill in a slow scraping cut, minimal pressure, of course with
>plexi bits.
>
>You may pull it in with screws later to fit it all to the frame. But a
sharp
>piercing point under stress might get you a certian disaster, if you are un
>lucky like I. My last hole being drilled on the LH forward (tip up)
>direction did snap/crackle and a 8 inch crack into the canopy was the
reward.
>JUNK.
>
>I have my second one done now and have done another friends too. It isn't
all
>that difficult after all. But you need to be well informed in what
probably
>would yield the least potential of breakage and success. Study up, trust
me
>you don't want to be one of the unlucky ones.. $$ ; ) .
>This for my 1997 EAA Oswego 2nd annual RV forum lecture, hand out on Tip up
>canopy fabrication. It was well recieved, there were tear filled eyes and
many
>a grown sounded, as I offered the display/review of my first canopy. All
eyes
>were trained on the crack which made it junk as we studied my disasterous
>first attempt at canopy fabrication.
>
>Respectfully, Dave McManmon Cicero NY RV6, on gear, canopy done (Wheeeew)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6/6A Construction Notes |
The following is a summary of RV-6/6A construction notes for the
information of newcomers and maybe a few oldtimers...
http://www.edt.com/homewing/justice/index.html is the location of Frank
Justice's Supplemental Instructions covering almost everything except
tilt canopy.
http://www.flash.net/~gila is the location of Will Cretsinger's
Construction Notes for Wing, Fuselage (Plywood) Jig, and Tilt Canopy.
Each is parked behind a red RV-6A courtesy of host Gil Alexander.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunnytop.htm is the
location of Frank van der Hulst's notes primarily for empennage and now
working on the wing. Also contains threads to other home pages.
All construction notes become a little more stale with time as Van
improves the kits; nonetheless, the construction sequence and
information remain valid and helpful. You will simply not have to do as
much work as previous builders thanks to the annual improvement of kits
provided by Van.
Now if you know the location of notes to supplement Justice notes from
cowl to completion, I'm real interested. In addition to the above aids
on the net, there is always the Orndorff videos available from Avery.
Happy building,
Will Cretsinger
Arlington TX
RV-6A now worrying the cowl for H2AD engine and retired from note
writing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Still Chatting |
-----Original Message-----
From: Toad <toad(at)favorites.com>
Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 10:10 AM
Subject: RV-List: Still Chatting
>
>from the web, go to; http://www.rconline.com follow link to chat
>irc client software point to server; rco.iglobal.net port 6667
>when on the server, type /join #rvchat to create or join the room.
>It has been a lot of fun, hope to see ya there tonight.
>
I tired to join the chat but I guess I was unsuccessful because I have not
downloaded and installed the IRC protocol. The RC web page indicated that
Java-enabled browsers were equivalent to IRCs so I didn't bother with the
IRC business.
Perhaps you could offer some more tips to those of us listers who would like
to chat but are not familiar with the nuances of this medium.
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Builders list ?? |
Call Van's, they will send you a list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
Does oil pour all over the engine when you remove the filter to replace it?
Jim Cone
RV-6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
<34D518AD.7732(at)greenapple.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Hello Listers;
>One thing I am sure that all RV pilots will agree upon, regardless of
>the horsepower, try a solo takeoff with half full tanks and feel for
>yourself what weight does for you and how important weight is.
>John kitz
>N721JK
>Ohio
>
>
>
John,
I couldn't agree more. I truly enjoy introducing (and converting)
pilots to the RV grin club, Deep down in side I more prefer to fly solo
when I am out to have fun.
Give me my airplane (160 HP and fixed pitch prop.) with only 12 gal of
fuel and the other seat empty any day, over a 180 with constant speed
prop. but loaded up with all kinds of other weight adding stuff. Make
that on a cold day flying in our local area (airports averaging 200 MSL
at the ground), Yeha.
Now if you have a 180 HP plus constant speed on a light (compared to the
average) RV....... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Etc. Etc. Etc.
Adding just the weight of a passenger is significant.
A 200 lb passenger is 12.5% of the total gross weight (recommended) of an
RV-6!
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I have been noticing lately that I see replies to original posts that I
have never received, and I think that I have sent some posts that have
never been transmitted to the list.
Has anyone else been experiencing this?
Is it common to E-mail service or maybe my E-mail server?
E-mail ignorant
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
>
>Fellow listers,
>
>Today I spent all day riveting all my bulkheads together and mounting
>the firewall to the jig. After careful measuring the firewall actually
>is positioned were I wanted it. Pretty amazing (at least I think so)
>
>Anyway, the question. With the help of my trusty helper (my wife) we
>bent the top longerons as described in the manual and in Frank J's
>supplement. After laying them on the jig and positioning them for width
>at each station they fit great except at the firewall weldments. At the
>firewall the weldments are cocked so that the longerons will be twisted
>from the vertical plane. My longerons are vertical at this stage. Did I
>do something wrong or should I just twist them and make them fit.? I
>just sort of figured that once the longerons were bent they would fall
>into place.
Gary,
... this has definitely been covered in the archives ... I wrote a
posting on fuselage assembly (since incorporated into the Frank Justice
notes, I think).
The longerons do need a twist in them to match the firewall brackets.
If you don't, there wil be a lot of torque on the fittings (and on the
clamp at F-604) and it will be difficult to fit.
If I were doing this portion over again, I think I would add an extra
longeron support at the center of the F-604 and F-605 span. If you look at
completed RV6s, you will see a lot have a small gap between the cockpit
rails and the top of the side skin, due to a slightly bulged upward
(downward while jigged) longeron. This support will hold the longeron in
place a little better. It can't be a cross member all the way across the
jig though, you need to be able to climb in there ...:^)
... hope this helps ... Gil (twist it) Alexander
Just cut the fwd. elevator push rod down to 47 inches from 47.5 (the plans
dimension), and now I need another VA-115 &*@%$!!
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A s/n 22993
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: firewall ground bolt |
<< A simple minded question --- If I put a large bolt through the firewall for
the main ground, is a normal bolt OK, or should it be made out of copper? >>
I'd recommend a 5/16" dia brass bolt and brass nut for the very best results,
but standard AN bolts and nuts (or even stanless steel) will work okay.
To easily allow connection of many grounds on both sides of the f/w get the
blocks from B&C. I think it comes with the brass thru hardware.
-GV
lot of features into one
>instrument and does not seem overly expensive for its capability. It
>does a bit more with one 2.25 inch instrument than do the two
>Electronics International instruments (US8A Ultimate Analyzer and FP-5
>Fuel Flow) which are in Van's catalog.
>
>Anybody know anything about this equipment?
>
>How about some thoughts from the builders in Tucson? You guys familiar
>with Allegro Avionics?
Frank,
... I have bought one I am going to use in conjunction with my RMI
MicroMonitor. It is the 'bare-bones' version, and will add full 4 cylinder
CHT/EGT scanning to my panel, since the RMI only monitors one cylinder, and
needs an external, manual switch for 4 cyl. monitoring. The Allegro unit
also cames with all probes included in the price.
This choice was made after I had already constructed the RMI unit
(a really nice kit, BTW). Another local builder decided to go with a
complete Allegro set-up, adding fuel flow/press, manifold pressure and rpm.
This now becomes a 2 instrument set-up (both 2.25 inch dials) and very
compact for full engine/fuel monitoring (ideal for RV4s?? ...:^). We both
made our decisions after seeing a Europa at a Long Beach fly-in, and
wondering where all of his engine monitoring instruments where. The two
dial set-up seemed effective and compact, with built-in alarms taking some
of the need for visual monitoring away. His final cost was almost the same
(or slightly less) than my cost for the RMI kit, probes/sensors and the
Allegro CHT/EGT scanner.
Neither of us are flying yet, so no reports on how it works.
..... Gil (I got one) Alexander
>
>Reply offline if you wish. Thanks.
>
>Frank Zeck, North Dakota, RV-4 to fly this summer.
>
ELT antenna/cable installed.
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
<< At the
firewall the weldments are cocked so that the longerons will be twisted
from the vertical plane. My longerons are vertical at this stage. Did I
do something wrong or should I just twist them and make them fit.? >>
You did nothing wrong. Just hold them flat at the point where they begin the
downward (upward when upside down in the jig) bend on their way to the f/w,
hold the f/w end in a clamp (with some wood to prevent scarring the surfaces)
and twist them sufficiently to match the weldments.
You've done well, grasshopper. It is now time to move on. The fun is only
beginning.
January 27, 1998 - February 02, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ed