RV-Archive.digest.vol-ee
February 02, 1998 - February 08, 1998
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Shields <dshields(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net> |
| Subject: | how do I unsubscribe? |
--------------1BADAFDBD22D4CA041078395
Hi,
How do I unsubscribe? I tried sending a message to
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" with unsubscribe in the body, but the
messages keep coming. I enjoy reading about people building RV's
because I intend to start building an RV-6A in a year or two, but this
rv-list thing is overwhelming my e-mail box. Every time I log in to my
box there are over 100 messages waiting. Thanks in advance for any help.
aspiring RV-6A builder,
David Shields
dshields(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net
--------------1BADAFDBD22D4CA041078395
Hi,
How do I unsubscribe? I tried sending a message to "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com"
with unsubscribe in the body, but the messages keep coming. I enjoy
reading about people building RV's because I intend to start building an
RV-6A in a year or two, but this rv-list thing is overwhelming my e-mail
box. Every time I log in to my box there are over 100 messages waiting.
Thanks in advance for any help.
aspiring RV-6A builder,
David Shields
dshields(at)tulsa.oklahoma.net
--------------1BADAFDBD22D4CA041078395--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Builders list ?? |
<< Call Van's, they will send you a list. >>
Jim,
The list does is not very detailed in sorting out what the status of the
person and airplane is currently doing. I got the Florida list( all 425) of
them and it is not really a good list to mail flyers out to for a flyin, etc.
It had names of people that I know who had ordered in info flyer years ago and
are since building other kits. It also does not offer Email addresses, so I
personally would like to see a list of active Emailing RVer's.
Bernie Kerr,S. Fla, working 6A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Holes in firewall |
Randall,
In my experience with the stainless steel firewall, the unibit was by far the
superior tool to drill large holes. I think the hole cutters you describe would
not work well at all. I drilled using the unibit and then use a demeral tools
with a metal cutter on the end to remove the lip left around the hole by the
unibit.
Ed
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> How are people cutting the the larger diameter holes in the
> firewall, the ones up to 1" and larger, that need to accomodate
> grommets for controls, etc?
>
> I have heard that the Unibits that large have two flutes and as a
> result are hard to control. I have a 1" hole saw that "says" it's
> for metal or wood, but it has pretty coarse teeth and I hesitate to
> try it on stainless.
>
> What have others done?
>
> Randall Henderson
> randall(at)edt.com
> <http://www.edt.com/homewing>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
Gary,
Not only do you have to bend them, but you also have to twist the
longerons to match the steel weldments. I was apprehensive too, but the
twisting was easier than the bending.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Fuselage in the jig, fitting and drilling bottom skins
-----Original Message-----At the
firewall the weldments are cocked so that the longerons will be
twisted
from the vertical plane. My longerons are vertical at this
stage. Did I
do something wrong or should I just twist them and make them
fit.?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
>
>Does oil pour all over the engine when you remove the filter to replace it?
>
>Jim Cone
>RV-6A Flying
>
I'm told that if you wait 30 minutes or so after the engine has
been run to remove the oil filter, that simply holding a rag
under the filter will catch a few drips . . . check with
Bill on this at 1-316-283-8000
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: firewall ground bolt |
>
>
><< A simple minded question --- If I put a large bolt through the firewall
for
>the main ground, is a normal bolt OK, or should it be made out of copper? >>
>
>I'd recommend a 5/16" dia brass bolt and brass nut for the very best results,
>but standard AN bolts and nuts (or even stanless steel) will work okay.
Brass is indeed the material of choice. You can view the B&C ground
bus kit on on our catalog page at . . .
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/catalog.html>
Put the bolt through the firewall facing forward, with the battery
ground lead under the head of the bolt. Sandwitch the firewall with
the ground busses on each side. Install first nut on firewall side
with some thread locker (super glue is good) and tighten to about
20 lb-ft. Then install firewall to crankcase ground strap with
second nut. This is all that's necessary for the whole ground
system. No jumpers around shock mounts or fiddling with engine
mount bolts are necessary or recommended.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Torsional vibration articles. |
Listers,
A while back I brought up the topic if gyroscopic forces on PSRU's and gave
a pretty lame explanation of what my concerns were. I have gotten with Greg
Travis since then and he so graciously put on his web page at:
http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Torsional/index.html
some articles on the subject that I refered too and FAXed to a few listers
who were interested. If you are planning on using a PSRU I think you will
find these articles interesting. Thanks Greg for your very informative web
pages! Al
PS-- This is NOT a pro or con message about alternative engines or PSRU's!
It is only more information for the builders.
________________________________________________________________________________
>
>Did anyone else have this problem? All my HS skeleton measurements look
>ok, and it's straight in the jig, so how did I miss on these 4 holes???
Moe, When I did the HS on my 4, It was obvious from looking at the parts
that you could not hit the skin, spar AND rib. I believe I simply left
this rivet out. There are approximately 500 skin rivets in your HS. I
think you'll be ok with 496. In general, don't sweat skin rivets too
much unless you have several bad ones in a row. A bad one here or there
should be left alone. Apply your energy to insuring that you have good
rivets tieing your spars together and that you didn't violate edge distance
when you attached your ribs to the flange strips in the rear spar.
Good luck
John ( who built two HS's )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Still Chatting |
For those of you who would like to join in on the RV_CHAT area during the
evenings but are unable to use the java site, try downloading the attached
file.
I had the same problem but after unziping this program I just ran the
Mirc32.exe program. This is the one for 32 bit computers otherwise just run
the Mirc.exe, and follow the setup.
I use AOL for my internet provider. Just log onto AOL, then run the Mirc32.exe
or Mirc.exe application file. At the bottom type /server rco.iglobal.net 6667
wait a few seconds until a reply comes back then type /join #rvchat (there are
spaces where they are shown in the above typed areas). You should be in now.
Good luck
John L. Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: O-360 oil line |
Don:
I think my buddy's motor is an 0-320. Does that make a difference? Also, he
seems to think the line is worth big bucks. :-( Some people......
I had figured it was a throw-away item.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
Twisting tool:
3' section of 2X4. Cut a saw kerf (groove left by the blade) 3/4" deep, 1/8"
wide, 4" from one end. The angle will fit into this tool (tightly). It takes a
surprising amout of twist with this tool (110 deg or so) to get the required
small twist. Remember- the longeron will only twist between the clamp and the
side of the tool nearest the clamp.
This is one tool that the Snap-On man doesn't carry.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: List problem? |
I have noticed the same thing.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: SCOTT R MCDANIELS <smcdaniels(at)Juno.com>
Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 12:11 AM
Subject: RV-List: List problem?
>
>I have been noticing lately that I see replies to original posts that I
>have never received, and I think that I have sent some posts that have
>never been transmitted to the list.
>Has anyone else been experiencing this?
>Is it common to E-mail service or maybe my E-mail server?
>
>E-mail ignorant
>
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
>These opinions and ideas are my own
>and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
>of my employer.
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Avionics Engine Analyzer |
> From: Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com>
> Have any of your learned gents and ladies have any experience with a
> nifty electronic engine analyzer made by Allegro Avionics of Tuscon...
>It combines a lot of features into one
> instrument and does not seem overly expensive for its capability
Frank,
I have one of the units (though not hooked up and flying yet). Chose it
after demoing all the electronic analyzers at sun'n'fun...high bang/$$$
ratio. There's a lot of information on it in the archives which should
answer your questions.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate |
engines)
>Give me my airplane (160 HP and fixed pitch prop.) with only 12 gal of
>fuel and the other seat empty any day, over a 180 with constant speed
>prop. but loaded up with all kinds of other weight adding stuff. Make
>that on a cold day flying in our local area (airports averaging 200 MSL
>at the ground), Yeha.
>Adding just the weight of a passenger is significant.
>A 200 lb passenger is 12.5% of the total gross weight (recommended) of an
>RV-6!
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
RV performance is really amazing at a field elevation of 200 ft (or 10
feet if you go to S&F.) For a real feel of what density altitude can mean,
fly from Van's homecoming in a 150 hp, fixed pitched RV-6 and pick up fuel
in Laramie, WY. When I did this, the D.A. was 10,500 feet. I leaned for
take off but, at the time, it didn't seem to do much good. Laramie's
longest runway is 7,700 feet. It seemed that I used most of it. It took
forever to get the tail up. As I rolled along with the tail up, I checked
engine instruments, mags, counted antelope and read "War & Peace" before I
finally got "unstuck". Now that I live in Buffalo, WY, a 180 with a
constant speed would be welcome. Maybe if I hit the "Nordic Track"????
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hr. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
I have been looking for a valve for an alternate static air set up.
Has anyone suggestions what to use and where they could be gotten? I have
had any luck at the usual sorces such as Spruce.
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
In a message dated 1/31/98 7:21:36 AM, you wrote:
<>
Mix the Alumiprep with water in a spray bottle. Spray the entire part and let
it dwell 20-30 seconds. A little rubbing sometimes helps (wear rubber gloves
if you want to keep your skin). Then, hose the part off. The water should
sheet off nicely if the Alumiprep has done its job. If not, repeat the
procedure. When the part is dry it's ready to prime.
Jeff Carpenter
RV-6
Altadena, CA
wstcttprss(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: What have I forgotten? |
<< So... any advice? What things did you not do before skinning the fuse
and would have gladly given away your new Lycoming to go back and get a
second chance? >>
The rudders! If you haven't, install them NOW. I saw that some suggested
that you install your floors now bit I don't agree. Skin the fuse, remove
from the jig and turn the fuse on its SIDE to install the floors. I know too
many people who wacked their backs installing the floors. You will be bent
over for many hours installing the floors. If the fuse is on its side you can
use a chair on rollers to measure/cut/fit the floors.
Speaking of the floors, after they are installed make some plywood copies
(1/4" to 3/8") that you can temporally install (with clecos) so you don't
destroy your floors or your floor ribs. You're gonna be in and out of this
thing a lot and the floors are gonna go in and out as well.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> > I would be very careful about not over "pounding" out the radius as you >
may
>
> Put the Flush Squeezer sets into your hand squeezer and gently squeeze
> the bend flat.
Sorry but I just have to butt in here. People are talking about bending
this flange to avoid notching it, but why?
If you're worried about strength, I wouldn't. First of all, this is at
the very center of the HS where the stiffening strips are the thickest,
and the spar is split there anyway, and you're only taking about 1 1/2"
width. And you don't have to remove more than 1/4"" of the flange. Try
to picture just how this part would fail as a result of that portion
of the flange being cut back. I can't.
Just notch it out and move on.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: List problem? |
>--------------
>
>I have been noticing lately that I see replies to original posts that I
>have never received, and I think that I have sent some posts that have
>never been transmitted to the list.
>Has anyone else been experiencing this?
>Is it common to E-mail service or maybe my E-mail server?
>
>E-mail ignorant
>
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>--------------
Hum, I think that last paragraph explains it best... :-)
Seriously though, Juno has a pretty low threshold for what they consider a
'full' mail box. When this threshold is met, Juno will no longer accept
incoming email to that address. It actually sends a message back to the
sender saying that the target email address has a full mail box. Seems like
they should sent one to the full mailbox too. Anyway, that's likely why
you arn't getting email at times...
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy/fairing strip seal |
> About to rivet down the canopy fairing strip in place. Sure looks like it
> needs some type of seal between the fiberglass and the canopy.
> What do people recommend?
> Do it when putting the strip down, a bead of caulk, or a a bead after? And,
> what type of material won't bug the plexi?
I used a product called "Lexel", available at Ace H/W. It's a
non-silicone, paintable clear caulking compound. It was recommended to
me by a guy who used it to seal the replacement windshield on his
Mooney. I called the manuf. about it and got the MSDS and it looked ok
for plexi, and I put some on some scrap and left if for a few days just
to verify -- it didn't craze it in that time, so I went with it.
I put a bead between the plexi and the fairing before riveting. I used
Naptha to clean up the extra that squeezed out the edges.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
<< I'm told that if you wait 30 minutes or so after the engine has
been run to remove the oil filter, that simply holding a rag
under the filter will catch a few drips . . . check with
Bill on this at 1-316-283-8000
>>
Bill told me the same thing at S-n-F last year. IMHO, this is a built-in dry
start- the oil pump has to fill this 3/4 qt filter (on every start) before it
pumps oil the the crank, etc. This sounds less than optimal. Does the factory
setup (horizontal filter) even hold oil? Or do I have this all wrong?
Check six!
Mark
Have a screen- want a filter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
| Subject: | To Step or Not to Step |
I am building a 6A and would like to hear from others on the pros and
cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A. I will soon close the baggage
skin, so it will save me some rivets/headache if I can make a final
decision one way or another.
Thanks in advance for any help!!!
Gary Fesenbek
RV-6A, drilling rear fuselage skins.
Roanoke, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
| Subject: | cowl air exit size |
I have a question regarding the size of the outlet on the bottom cowl where
the cooling air exits. Another builder in town is at the stage where he is
mounting the exhaust and finds that he has to trim the botton of his cowl to
give clearance for the exhast stacks (older cowl,pre constant speed). How
much can he trim off without making the opening too large or does this
really matter?
I have heard or read that the exit size should be a %age of the inlet size
to give a pressure differential of X which would give the optimum airflow
through the cowl. Is this true or should the builder just trim to give
adequete clearance without giving any thought to the final size of the
opening.....??
I have searched the archive without much success so am posing this
question to the list.
Blissfully Building away
Marc DeGirolamo
-4 #3289
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load, : ( & lecture write up |
<< RV-List message posted by: "Leslie B. Williams"
Dave, I understand what you are saying, but you can't very well drill a
matching hole in the plexi when it is an inch or two away from the frame. I
have not ever owned a plexiglas drill bit either. But I've always made sure
to smooth the edges after cutting with a cut-off wheel, and slowly drilling
holes with a 135 degree split point drill bit, before very much moving or
fitting was done and that the material was warm while doing so. I also
never exerted very much force to get it in the proper position and hold it
there either. >>
What's not explained in the first post but is in the presentaion was my method
to transfer the holes, as you mentioned. Again to drill stress free, One at a
time, side to side, from rear forward. I Plexi-bit drilled the canopy as
noted in free state, 2 " or what ever it felt like away from the frame. I
held in place, marked, lossened it up and drilled into with a plywood backing
to slow drill point pierce through. All this being done alone, canopy in
place, on the canopy frame, on the fuselage. It sounds longer than it took.
And the real toublesome areas are the last 5 or 6 forward most sholes on the
rails. Where the canopy tended to be wide on the 3 I've done so far.
I have a regular 7/64 bit that I side wall dulled (on 3M wheel) bit. I
clamped canopy back in place with duct tape and silver clecos (in 7/64th
holes. Then drilled throught the plexi hole with this 1/64 smalled drill bit
to transfer hole into aluminum rails. No plexi was cut and the drill went
throught the aluminum easily. You later size for rivets or screws as
required.
Later, Dave Mc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
message posted by: Denny Harjehausen
I have been looking for a valve for an alternate static air set up.
Has anyone suggestions what to use and where they could be gotten? I have
had any luck at the usual sorces such as Spruce.
Hi Denny
Try a Curtis CCA-1550 fuel quick drain valve, it has a provision so that it
can be locked open when you need to use alternate static air. Mount it on a
AN910-1D union. Mount below or behind your panel, it is very similiar to
Cessna's setup.
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
6A - Wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ciswired.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Allegro Avionics Engine Analyzer |
On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Robert Acker wrote:
>
> > From: Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com>
> > Have any of your learned gents and ladies have any experience with a
> > nifty electronic engine analyzer made by Allegro Avionics of Tuscon...
> >It combines a lot of features into one
> > instrument and does not seem overly expensive for its capability
>
> Frank,
>
> I have one of the units (though not hooked up and flying yet). Chose it
> after demoing all the electronic analyzers at sun'n'fun...high bang/$$$
> ratio. There's a lot of information on it in the archives which should
> answer your questions.
Hi Guys,
I hope this doesn't cross the line into a "commercial post" but I'm doing
an article on engine monitors for one of the aviation magazines. I'm
interested in the Allegro as I've heard (but not seen) a lot about it here.
I would love to talk to future and/or present owners of this or any
other engine monitor in preparation for the article. If you're willing to
speak up, send me private email (address below) and I'll give you a call.
greg
greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
Scott said:
> Give me my airplane (160 HP and fixed pitch prop.) with only 12 gal of
> fuel and the other seat empty any day, over a 180 with constant speed
> prop. but loaded up with all kinds of other weight adding stuff.
Maybe the guy with the constant speed 180, a full IFR panel and full tanks has
a mission that includes crossing high mountain ranges with a passenger and poor
weather below? Then 12 gal might not be adequate. Likewise the 160hp.
The 180 CS can fly both missions. The 160 can't.
Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Jim Cone is right - drilling your finger hurts.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | -8 elev trim (manual type) |
Listers:
Have any of you installed a manual trim system (and have the system perform
correctly)? This setup doesn't seem to be as user friendly as the -4 or -6
manual systems. Unless I missed some hidden clue (or a plans update), there's
gonna be some flak as these are built up.
Help me, Obi Wan- you're my only hope.....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
Moe,
I am about to get to the same point on my -6. Did you miss the edge
distance with the center mark on the flange or was the mark not
visible in the prepunched hole when you drilled? I'm guessing that
the only way to avoid this is to clamp the skeleton together, put it
in the jig, mark the flange centers, and then check/adjust the entire
skeleton before riveting it. Then, it seems to me, you should be dead
on.
Chris Browne
-6 HS
Atlanta
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: RV-List: HS problems
Date: 2/1/98 4:36 PM
Well, I wondered what I'd screw up next, and it looks like I've found
out. Last night I drilled my skins to my HS skeleton. ...
Did anyone else have this problem? All my HS skeleton measurements look
ok, and it's straight in the jig, so how did I miss on these 4 holes???
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
Thinking of opening a scrap yard with all my "bad" RV parts
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy/fairing strip sealant |
<< > About to rivet down the canopy fairing strip in place. Sure looks like
it
> needs some type of seal between the fiberglass and the canopy.
> What do people recommend?
> Do it when putting the strip down, a bead of caulk, or a a bead after?
And,
> what type of material won't bug the plexi? >>
M-D makes all sorts of sealants. I use the grey (matches the interior paint I
usually use) 50 yr stuff between the plexi and the skirts- look for those
yellow 10 oz tubes with 50 YEAR on 'em. The stuff is also paintable, which
Randall mentioned as being important. Clean off any extra with mineral spirits
and a clean rag.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
Gary, I installed the step on pilot's side before closing fuselage, looks neater
that way for sure. I decided not to install one on passenger side since figured
I
would be flying by myself most of the time and if I had a passenger who could not
made the step from passenger side, they could always cross over. Its a long step
from ground to wing and hazardous trying to do so particularly if wing is wet.
Just my view.
Ed
RV-6A N494BW
Fesenbek, Gary wrote:
>
> I am building a 6A and would like to hear from others on the pros and
> cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A.
>
> Gary Fesenbek
> RV-6A, drilling rear fuselage skins.
> Roanoke, VA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
I just had an interesting conversation with a wealthy man at the airport
yesterday. I
told him why I liked to run auto gas in my plane and the benefits in cost it
provided.
I told him you had to be careful not to put alcohol in the tanks because it
would
hurt the slosh. He wanted to know how many hrs. I flew a year. (150) Then he
wanted
to know if the savings would justify to problems I would have if I happened to
put Auto
Fuel with Alcohol in my tanks.
I saw Mike Wonder do a leak test on a proven tank he had been working on.
He
just went down to the service station a bought some cheap gas to use in his
tests.
The tank had many hrs on it previously with no problems. After he put the gas
in, it
started seeping and then went to full blown leaks. He had to redo the entire
tank.
Although I'm a stanch believer in Auto Gas, that man at the airport got me
to
thinking. I only use Amoco, which supposedly doesn't have alcohol in it. Now
I believe I'll check for alcohol each time I use ANY auto gas.
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
> I am building a 6A and would like to hear from others on the pros and
> cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A. I will soon close the baggage
> skin, so it will save me some rivets/headache if I can make a final
> decision one way or another.
>
> Thanks in advance for any help!!!
I posted the following a while back (went back and got it out of
the archive):
------------- Begin Included Message Part -------------
Flying to Sun-N-Fun in the RV-6T and back in the RV-6B, with different
legs from different seats, I got a fair amount of experience with the
step/no step issue, as both planes have a step on the passenger side
only.
The bottom line is that once I learned the proper technique, I didn't
at all mind getting in on the side without the step, but I'm 6' tall
and in reasonably good shape. On the other hand, at the show when
people were "trying it on for size", it was obvious that a lot of them
were physically unable to make it up there without straining them-
selves, and even if they could make it up OK they were more than likely
to kick, step on, grab, bend, or otherwise do damage to the canopy
fairing, flap, fuselage side, or wing area outside of the wing walk.
This also occurred on the side with the step, but was not quite as
likely.
Based on that experience I would say that if you yourself feel
comfortable making a pretty big step up there you could do without on
the pilot's side, but unless you're going to reserve the right seat for
an exclusive, physically fit, well-trained few, you should go for a
step on the passenger side.
------------- End Included Message Part -------------
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
<http://www.edt.com/homewing>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
><| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | To Step or Not to Step |
I must be at about the same place you are. I know that steps are things
that will make life easier in the future, but this project seems like it
will never end, so I'm going to keep things as simple as I can. No
steps.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----I am building a 6A and would like to
hear from others on the pros and
cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders list ?? |
patk(at)mail.ic.net wrote:
> While not as fast as Internet, Vans supplies builders-lists.
Really? When I started building about 2 years ago, I asked Barbara at
Vans for names and addresses of builders in NZ. She told me that they
couldn't supply that information because their filing system wasn't up
finding it.
> Perhaps
> his unofficial site could carry a master database?
Whilst a Web-accessible database would no doubt be useful to builders,
I'm dubious about this proposal. It's an open invitation to spammers.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A Construction Notes |
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 10:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6/6A Construction Notes
[much deleted!]
>Happy building,
>Will Cretsinger
>Arlington TX
>RV-6A now worrying the cowl for H2AD engine and retired from note
>writing...
Gosh, Will, after the fabuous Canopy Instructions I was hoping you would
write a procedure on engine and systems installing! Please don't retire
your fine writing abilities yet -- we need you!
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage - following Will's instructions to the letter on
the canopy!
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Canopy Pre-load, & water paint |
Les:
I would like to hear the story. Off line if the other lesters wouldn't
care.
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wing root fairings |
Does the RV-6 kit come with strips of aluminum for the wing root fairings? I
don't like the looks of the fiberglass ones that came with my -4, and am
planing to use flat ones with the rubber strips. Anybody got a part # for
these?
Pat Allender
Iowa City
RV 4 Pat A(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
You should try out someone's 6A before deciding. Only if you are able
to mount up with no difficulty should you consider not having a step.
If you are less than five eight or so then I think you would greatly
appreciate a low drag step. Age, infirmity, short skirts, etc., greatly
affect this rule of thumb.
I chose to use a zero drag step on my 6A, and have had no regrets so far
with 143 hours and 60 dual flights with passengers of all sizes.
The zero drag step is a small rubber maid stool which lives up side down
in my bag compartment. It takes up little cube and weighs very little.
Of course I must retrieve it from the passenger side before enplaning.
My guesstimate is that an entry aid is needed for those with inseams
shorter than about 30 inches. For normally aspirated people this means
about five foot nine. I have no trouble mounting up so only use it for
less tall passengers.
Hope this helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
<< Now
I believe I'll check for alcohol each time I use ANY auto gas.
N444JN >>
What will be your method to check for alcohol?
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty Emrath" <emrath(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
I have a friend who solved the problem and put one step on the passenger
side only.
RV6 HS in jig, undecided as to tri-gear. Any older pilots who can comment
on the easy of entry of a -6 versus -6A?
Marty
-----Original Message-----
From: Fesenbek, Gary <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 12:58 PM
Subject: RV-List: To Step or Not to Step
>
>I am building a 6A and would like to hear from others on the pros and
>cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A. I will soon close the baggage
>skin, so it will save me some rivets/headache if I can make a final
>decision one way or another.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help!!!
>
>Gary Fesenbek
>RV-6A, drilling rear fuselage skins.
>Roanoke, VA
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
>
>
><< I'm told that if you wait 30 minutes or so after the engine has
> been run to remove the oil filter, that simply holding a rag
> under the filter will catch a few drips . . . check with
> Bill on this at 1-316-283-8000
> >>
>Bill told me the same thing at S-n-F last year. IMHO, this is a built-in dry
>start- the oil pump has to fill this 3/4 qt filter (on every start) before it
>pumps oil the the crank, etc. This sounds less than optimal. Does the factory
>setup (horizontal filter) even hold oil? Or do I have this all wrong?
There are no check valves in the system to retain "levels" of oil
after engine shut down . . . I suspect the horizontal filters
drain too . . . just not as much because they're laying flat.
Oil in the engine above oil level in the sump has gravity working
to bring it all down and eventually does . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Countersunk Platenuts - Help |
> I have tried to locate dimpled nutplates (I have only a very few left over
> from the biplane).
[snip!]
You can dimple the ears of the nutplates yourself. Grind off enough of the
edge of a dimple die so it will fit next to the threaded portion of the nut
plate, then dimple them in your Avery C arbor. It takes a harder whack
than with aluminum of course, but it's not difficult.
OR... use NAS-1097 "reduced head" rivets. These only take a light
countersink, so you can use 3/32" rivets in material down to .025 thick
without dimpling. Since the rivets are only there to hold the nutplate on
while torquing, the reduced head size isn't an issue. NAS 1097 rivets are
are available from Van's, Spruce, etc. (These rivets are also handy for
filling "extra" holes, and the larger (1/8") ones can be used used in the
occasional over-sized hole. Hence the common nickname "oops" rivets).
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
<http://www.edt.com/homewing>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
RV>><I'm surpised nobody has mentioned this yet but it is completely unnecessary
RV>to use Alumiprep with Variprime. Variprime has acid in it and is self
RV>ectching. It will stick very well to any reasonably clean surface.
RV>Alumiprep offers no advantage that I can think of except adding more work
RV>to the least fun part of the project.
RV>John
John:
Thanks for the post. I thought that I was missing something here.
All that I have done to parts to be primed is clean them very well with
Coleman Lantern Fuel after a light scuffing with a scotchbrite pad, and
then I hit them with Variprime. That to me is the beauty of using a
self-etching primer. This method has worked well for me so far.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV 6A On to the rudder!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregory Young <gyoung(at)net1.net> |
| Subject: | Countersunk Platenuts - Help |
On Monday, February 02, 1998 15:24 PM, DFaile(at)aol.com
[SMTP:DFaile(at)aol.com] wrote:
>> snip
> of the nutplate holes were drilled and dimpled. The
> nutplates supplied were
> dimpled where the rivets are installed.
>> snip
> I have tried to locate dimpled nutplates (I have only a
>> snip
The simple solution is to dimple them yourself. This has
been mentioned several times on the list but it took me
awhile to grasp that the steel nutplate really will dimple
easily with your normal dimple die and squeezer or C-frame.
Another approach is to use the 3/32 NAS rivets. Their
head is so small you barely have to countersink. I use the
NAS where I can't dimple.
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY (reserved) fuselage out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
I put a step on the right side, but not the left. I figured that I will
be careful and aware of the "big step" up or down. However, passengers
who are not as familiar with the plane might not be.
Other pros: a step cost less than a new flap, especially if that new
flap becomes needed 1000 miles from home.
cons: a drag penalty of approximately 24.61 second on a coast to coast
flight.
Andy
RV-6A N-5060 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
On my first -6A, I put in one for the passenger (normally my short wife) and
wished later that I had put in one for me. My new one will have two but I'm
putting them in after the wings are on so there's no chance of locating them
wrong. I've made enough mistakes on this one already.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>I am building a 6A and would like to hear from others on the pros and
>cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A. I will soon close the baggage
>skin, so it will save me some rivets/headache if I can make a final
>decision one way or another.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help!!!
>
>Gary Fesenbek
>RV-6A, drilling rear fuselage skins.
>Roanoke, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
----------
> From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Fuel
> << Now
> I believe I'll check for alcohol each time I use ANY auto gas.
> N444JN >>
> What will be your method to check for alcohol?
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
The container I use to check for water in the tanks have calibrated lines
on it.
You fill the tube with gas to one line, add water to the next line and shake
well to
mix the two.
Water and gas don't mix, but alcohol and water does.
The tube has a percentage of alcohol content written on the tube. If you end up
with more water than you started out with and less gas in the tube, that means
your gas has alcohol in it. The alcohol left the gas and mixed with the water.
I forget what they call the container I use, but its sold everywhere and
it's
been around for God knows how long. If someone else on the list knows what
the correct name for this glass container is feel free to butt in. I still have
the
box it came in, so next time I go to the hanger I'll read the box.
Sorry I didn't know the name of it.
Jim
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS problems: Missed edge dist at rib ends |
Thanks to all who replied on the edge distance problem, I still have not
finished reading all the replies. I talked to Scott at Vans today, and
he said to just put a rivet there, and not worry about it. I was worried
about dimpling with so little edge distance (<1/16"), but he said go for
it, and I did, and it worked. Scott says that if the rivet doesn't split
the hole open when I first drive it, it won't split at a later date. If
it does split, then I simply cut away the flange and go that route. When
I dimpled it, it did stretch the metal a little, but it looks ok. I did
ding my skin though. In the video, George O. countersinks the forward
most PP hole in the center of the HS, because it's such a tight fit for
the C-frame dimpling tool. What the heck does George know, I can get
that C-frame in there with some help. Well, I did get it in there, but
when I hit the dimple, the edge of the die was touching the skin because
of the tight curve on the outside, and I dinged it. The top skin no
less, and I did it to BOTH halves before I realized my mistake. For some
reason it only dinged the top sides. Oh well, live and learn.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 working towards the next big chance to ding my skins, riveting!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
>
>><
>I'm surpised nobody has mentioned this yet but it is completely unnecessary
>to use Alumiprep with Variprime. Variprime has acid in it and is self
>ectching. It will stick very well to any reasonably clean surface.
>Alumiprep offers no advantage that I can think of except adding more work
>to the least fun part of the project.
ALERT .. this is NOT true if you read the DuPont AIRCRAFT painting manual.
They specifically state that aircraft surfaces must be etched and alodined
before priming for a satisfactory paint job.
Ignore this if you don't believe what the manufacturer says about
his product.
... Gil (read the instructions) Alexander
And yes .. it's definitely in the archives.
>
>John
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load, & water paint |
donspawn(at)Juno.com wrote:
I've been looking at Stits water based paint system,would be interested
in any comments on this or other water based paints.
Derek Reed OR. 6A
>
> Les:
>
> I would like to hear the story. Off line if the other lesters wouldn't
>
> care.
>
> Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
> donspawn(at)juno.com
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I used to put an ounce or so of water in a jar, then put the gas
in, and shake it up. Let it settle for a minute or two. If the
water is absorbed into the gas, it has alcohol in it. If it is
still seperated, it doesn't. I think this works?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
<< I am building a 6A and would like to hear from others on the pros and
cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A. >>
The installation is very straightforward and I'm glad I installed them (one on
each side) on my 6A.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Flight Stimulator |
I missed the final verdict on the RV add-ons for the latest Flight Simulator.
Where can I get them?
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
RV-8 Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
I am going to soon be in the market for an RV 6 project. I would like to
buy someones complete kit that has excellent workmanship on what they
have completed up till now. Maybe you guys on the mail list can keep
your eyes and ears open for a project that maybe 50 or 60% done and has
went dormant. I won't be ready until about april. I will also consider
some parts and pieces from different kits also. What I really want is a
QB at regular kit price (doesn't everyone). I don't have the time to
build it all and I don't have the money for the QB.
thanks for any leads and have any sellers to email me direct to reduce
the clutter on this fine mail list.
Thanks for your help. Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Countersunk Platenuts - Help |
<< I have tried to locate dimpled nutplates (I have only a very few left over
from the biplane). If we could locate nutplates with dimples, we could dimple
the
rib flange which is easier than countersink and many (including me) say
stronger. Take this a step farther: We could use countersunk pull stem (blind
rivets) and make the work even shorter.
AH! You say that pull stem countersunk rivets are 100 degree, not 120 degree
as normal rivets. Yes, this is true, but you can get a 100 degree countersink
cutter and even a Roper Whitney punch with a 100 degree dimple die.>>
Actually, it's the reverse. Countersunk pop rivets are 120 deg and normal
AN426 rivets are 100 degree. But it's not a big deal for these fastenings.
<< Has anybody thought of this application? Here is what I have found out so
far.
The nutplates are K1000-08. This is also MS21047. If a "K" is added, it is
countersunk. The nutplates are made by a company (Kaynar) supposedly in
Placentia CA. I have not been able to locate a telephone number for them or
who they sell them to.>>
This is all readily available info. Print out the RV Builders' Yeller Pages
at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm for future reference.
<< If you can help, please let me know (off list is acceptable)>>
They are P/N MS21047-L08K. Skybolt has them in their catalog.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy William Benedict <jbenedic(at)up.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders list ?? |
Is this message somehow saying Van's has an unofficial site?
They only have one site, the official site (www.vansaircraft.com).
As far as putting the builders list on Van's site, it poses too many
problems (many people have asked about this already):
1. The list is huge, managing it would be very cumbersome. Their current
setup is not able to handle it. The list is always at OSH--take a look
at it sometime, it's big.
2. I tried to put 30 people's e-mail addresses on an intranet of 3000
users, but got too many objections about listing addresses publicly.
Imagine the reaction if thousands of peoples' names, address, phone
numbers, and information about their personal hobbies were made
available to the world via the Internet without anyone's permission...
Over the years I've been reading the RV-List, there have been many tries
to put together a page of RV-Listers only. Each time there seems to be
only a mild response to the suggestion (along with several people sending
their information directly to the list). I don't even know of one that is
currently up with more than a couple of people listed. I think it would
be great if it worked...
Good luck,
Jeremy
jbenedic(at)up.edu
> patk(at)mail.ic.net wrote:
> > While not as fast as Internet, Vans supplies builders-lists.
> > Perhaps
> > his unofficial site could carry a master database?
>
> Whilst a Web-accessible database would no doubt be useful to builders,
> I'm dubious about this proposal. It's an open invitation to spammers.
>
> Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | seeking rick reynolds |
I need to get in touch with Rich Reynolds in Norfolk, VA but cannot find him
online... anyone with his current e-address please respond OFF-LIST. thanks
much.
Bill Boyd
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Countersunk Platenuts - Help |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
David,
the platenuts can be easily dimpled by using your regular dimple dies. I
use a pneumatic squeezer because I have one but I feel certain that a
hand squeezer would do the job also. Have done this many times, it works
great.
Regards, Bill RV4 N66WD
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
I think the point is to leave enough material so edge distance isn't a
problem here, something that everyone seems to screw up. (I did)
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> Sorry but I just have to butt in here. People are talking about bending
> this flange to avoid notching it, but why?
>
> If you're worried about strength, I wouldn't. First of all, this is at
> the very center of the HS where the stiffening strips are the thickest,
> and the spar is split there anyway, and you're only taking about 1 1/2"
> width. And you don't have to remove more than 1/4"" of the flange. Try
> to picture just how this part would fail as a result of that portion
> of the flange being cut back. I can't.
>
> Just notch it out and move on.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6
> randall(at)edt.com
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pmartin Compaq" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersunk Platenuts - Help |
Dear Dave.
I found the platenuts that you are looking for as well as a lot of other
hard to find hardware at very reasonable prices at: B & B Aircraft
Supplies, Gardner Airport, Gardner Kansas. I don't have the rest of the
address by this computer, however a call to information wil l get you the
telephone number and you can call them.
Also I think that they have the Parker Alternate Air valves new surplus
that one of the other listers was looking for.
Dick Martin
RV8 fuselage almost finished waiting for finish kit
----------
> From: DFaile(at)aol.com
> To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Countersunk Platenuts - Help
> Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:24 PM
>
>
> I am looking for help with platenuts (nutplates).
>
> Back a few years, I was building a biplane and some of the sheet metal
and
> steel parts had nutplates attached. Looking back on this, I remember that
some
> of the nutplate holes were drilled and dimpled. The nutplates supplied
were
> dimpled where the rivets are installed.
>
> I have tried to locate dimpled nutplates (I have only a very few left
over
> from the biplane). The application on an RV seems significant. For
example:
> Some of the floor ribbs have nutplates installed on the ribb flange and
they
> must be countersunk (thin metal but it does have the steel nutplate as a
> reinforcement). If we could locate nutplates with dimples, we could
dimple the
> ribb flange which is easier than countersink and many (including me) say
> stronger. Take this a step farther: We could use countersunk pull stem
(blind
> rivets) and make the work even shorter.
>
> AH! You say that pull stem countersunk rivets are 100 degree, not 120
degree
> as normal rivets. Yes, this is true, but you can get a 100 degree
countersink
> cutter and even a Roper Whitney punch with a 100 degree dimple die.
>
> Has anybody thought of this application? Here is what I have found out so
far.
> The nutplates are K1000-08. This is also MS21047. If a "K" is added, it
is
> countersunk. The nutplates are made by a company (Kaynar) supposedly in
> Placentia CA. I have not been able to locate a telephone number for them
or
> who they sell them to.
>
> If you can help, please let me know (off list is acceptable). Thanks
>
> david faile CFII A&P
> DFaile(at)aol.com
> fairfield, ct
> Christen Eagle since '82
> RV6 started
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Change of email address |
Hi listers,
I've finally gotten fed up with my old Internet provider. Please be
advised that I've just changed my email address to:
chaskuss(at)gdi.net
Charlie Kuss
RV 8
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Quartim <martinq(at)cris.com> |
| Subject: | HLP Near Virginia Beach, VA |
After a lot of research seems that the RV is the only airplane that meet my
needs and I would love to hop inside one. I live in Virginia Beach and I
would like to meet some of you folks near by.
I am a mechanic engineer and a glider pilot with over 200hrs working on my
power rating.
You can reply directly to my email martinq(at)cris.com.
Thanks,
Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gregory Young <gyoung(at)net1.net> |
| Subject: | To Step or Not to Step |
Another consideration is that with enough weight on the
step it is possible to drop the plane on it's tail. I'm
high enough on the "Bubba scale" that I did it to Mike
Seager in the red 6a on my demo flight. Once the thing
starts to rotate it does so with a vengeance. I think you
could hit the tail hard enough to do some damage... at
least to the tie-down ring. If you or your pax are "down
linemen" sized, you may want to do some moment calculations
to see if you might have a problem for different loading
sequences. I'm 6'3" so I now ignore the step, and step
directly on the wing.
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY (reserved) fuselage out of jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>> >While examining under the hood I noticed a candle wax or bees wax like
>> >substance that had dripped out of the rear of my starter and splattered
>> >on top of the filtered air box.
>> >What is this stuff and why is it there
>>
>> What make of starter is it?
>>
>Bob, it is an Electrosystems, Inc. its the unit that was installed on
>the engine when I purchased the engine from Vans.
I've had B&C and Skytec starters apart but not an Electosystems.
I'm mystified as to what it might be. It sounds like it might
be a grease but I'd certianly expect it to be less viscous than
"wax" . . . how hard would it be to get the starter off and open
it up?
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Pre-load |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
> I'm a bit nervous about slicing the canopy in to at the roll bar.
> Would be better to drill the canopy in place after cut it in two so as to
> adjust the gap between front and back pieces for a very small gap?
I was too. If my results were at all typical, the net result of splitting the canopy
is to allow the rear
portion to sit properly, and you end up having to trim and file the junction of
the two pieces anyway to get
a reasonably close fit. I'd say you have 1/8" to 1/4" of leeway there. At least,
that's what I had to deal with
since my cut wasn't perfectly straight either. As long as you trim and sand to
get a uniform gap between the
front and rear plexi, it will look just fine after you glass in the fairing strip.
Try to get the rear plexi to
fit evenly along the front hoop of the rear canopy frame, since this is most visible
after the plane is finished.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
Unless you have a 36 inch inseam, you need a step.
Jim Cone
RV-6A Flying (with a step of both sides)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Schrader <leschrader(at)dvsdghse.com> |
| Subject: | Info for finish kit on RV-4 |
Hello List...
I need some info....I'm ready to order the finish kit for my RV-4 and
I'm thinking about certain mod's that I won't need some of the parts
from the kit for....
1. I've heard about the fiberglass gear leg fairings but haven't seen an
address or web site for them. Does anyone have any pro or con on their
use, experiences, etc.
2. I've seen the Bakersfield bunch using aluminum spinners on fixed
pitch props that have the same profile as the factory glass one....are
they custom or stock items and how much. I've also heard of a carbon
fiber spinner.....same info needed.
3. I've heard of the full length fiberglass wing root fairings but
again......no address or web sight info.
I would appreciate any info any of you have......there is no need buying
parts that I won't use in the finish kit.
E-mail me off line if you want to or if the discussion is very long.
Thanks,
Larry Schrader
RV-4, finish kit
leschrader(at)dvsdghse.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
Marty Emrath wrote:
>
Any older pilots who can comment
> on the easy of entry of a -6 versus -6A?
I tried both 6 and 6A. In my opinion if your limber you'll be ok. If
your not flexible than I'ld opt for the step. I have a 6 and I passed
I'm also 61yrs old. Try one and see for yourself.
Keep stretching,
DON
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <charliekuss(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersunk Platenuts - Help |
DFaile(at)aol.com wrote:
> I am looking for help with platenuts (nutplates).
snipped
> If you can help, please let me know (off list is acceptable). Thanks
Dave,
I just bought some of these (MS21047L06K #6 screw, dimpled rivet holes,
flat screw hole) from Skybolt Aeromotive Corp. 551 North Park Ave. ,
Apopka, Florida 32712 (407)889-2613 .They sell them in packs of 10 at
$.38 each.
Call and ask for a free catalog. It's a great reference source for
aircraft hardware. They have a $10 minimum order (extremely reasonable I
thought). They'll also send you an Aerquip catolog (they are
distributers). Tell them you are building an RV. They are nice people to
deal with.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -8 elev trim (manual type) |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Listers:
>Have any of you installed a manual trim system (and have the system
>perform
>correctly)? This setup doesn't seem to be as user friendly as the -4
>or -6
>manual systems. Unless I missed some hidden clue (or a plans update),
>there's
>gonna be some flak as these are built up.
>
>Help me, Obi Wan- you're my only hope.....
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
>
>
The RV-8 left elev. and trim tab is exactly the same as the RV-6
(prepunched) elevator and trim tab.
What is wrong?
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: HS problems: Missed edge dist at rib ends |
>
>Thanks to all who replied on the edge distance problem, I still have not
>finished reading all the replies. I talked to Scott at Vans today, and
>he said to just put a rivet there, and not worry about it. I was worried
>about dimpling with so little edge distance (<1/16"), but he said go for
>it, and I did, and it worked. Scott says that if the rivet doesn't split
>the hole open when I first drive it, it won't split at a later date. If
>it does split, then I simply cut away the flange and go that route. When
>I dimpled it, it did stretch the metal a little, but it looks ok. I did
>ding my skin though. In the video, George O. countersinks the forward
>most PP hole in the center of the HS, because it's such a tight fit for
>the C-frame dimpling tool. What the heck does George know, I can get
>that C-frame in there with some help. Well, I did get it in there, but
>when I hit the dimple, the edge of the die was touching the skin because
>of the tight curve on the outside, and I dinged it. The top skin no
>less, and I did it to BOTH halves before I realized my mistake. For some
>reason it only dinged the top sides. Oh well, live and learn.
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8 working towards the next big chance to ding my skins, riveting!
>
FWIW,
When I dimpled the holes in my skins closest to the bends on my stabs and my
control surfaces, I put the male die in my handy 2X rivet gun and mounted
the female die in the natural bucking bar that God gave me--my fingers.
With CAREFUL use of the rivet gun and some yoga pain suppression techniques
:-), you can put a satisfactory dimple in the skins by simply holding the
female die inside and teasing the trigger on the gun. Easy does it, though.....
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Elevators and selling stuff
for wing kit money.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing Walk Doubler-RV-8 |
Listers; I am drilling my top-side wing skins and the plans and manual say to
use a 9 3/8 x 26" panel for the wing walk doubler, but I recieved 2 10" x 48"
panels. The part #'s match, so these must be the right parts. Is this a
discrepancy? Also the manual says to overhang the doubler over the rear spar
by about one inch. But the 26" length as called for in the plans brings the
doubler out even with the rear spar, which makes more sense to me. What's the
Scoop? Have found a lot of small errors in the RV-8 manual and plans so far,
seems like more than my previous RV-4 kit. I guess this is to be expected with
a new product like this.
Von Alexander
Independence, Or.
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Twisting tool:
>
>3' section of 2X4. Cut a saw kerf (groove left by the blade) 3/4"
>deep, 1/8"
>wide, 4" from one end. The angle will fit into this tool (tightly). It
>takes a
>surprising amout of twist with this tool (110 deg or so) to get the
>required
>small twist. Remember- the longeron will only twist between the clamp
>and the
>side of the tool nearest the clamp.
>
>This is one tool that the Snap-On man doesn't carry.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
>
>
Something that I do that some may find quicker and easier.
Use 2 adjustable (crescent) wrenches with tape on the jaws.
Clamp the wrenches on the longeron at the 2 opposite ends of where you
want the twist to occur and twist until you have what you want.
This method allows you to do the twisting in the jig until you get the
longerons to match the weldments.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Info for finish kit on RV-4 |
>
1. I've heard about the fiberglass gear leg fairings but haven't seen an
address or web site for them. Does anyone have any pro or con on their
use, experiences, etc. >>
Subj: Gear Leg Fairings
Date: 01/08/97
The wide chord, reflexed trailing edge gear leg fairing used by, among others,
Dave Anders on his 258MPH 360 powered RV-4 is now available from:
Tracy Saylor
P.O. Box 856
Santa Paula, CA 93060
(805)933-8225
Cost is $195.00 including tax / shipping and an installation guide.
Per Tracy, the fairings are aircraft grade epoxy/fiberglass and should not
have the typical shrinking problems that polyester resin products do.
He currently does not provide intersection fairings, because the variation
between aircraft make it impossible to get a fit he is comfortable with.
According to several people who had the prototypes installed at Watsonville
96, these fairings a worth a couple of MPH, and the look great.
I have ordered a set and will post a note when I get them installed.
Dan Helm
mt. View CA
RV-4 3696
that is built
in to the normal spin on adapter (which now you wouldn't have).
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: cowl air exit size |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>I have a question regarding the size of the outlet on the bottom cowl
>where
>the cooling air exits. Another builder in town is at the stage where
>he is
>mounting the exhaust and finds that he has to trim the botton of his
>cowl to
>give clearance for the exhast stacks (older cowl,pre constant speed).
>How
>much can he trim off without making the opening too large or does this
>really matter?
>I have heard or read that the exit size should be a %age of the inlet
>size
>to give a pressure differential of X which would give the optimum
>airflow
>through the cowl. Is this true or should the builder just trim to give
>adequete clearance without giving any thought to the final size of the
>opening.....??
> I have searched the archive without much success so am posing
>this
>question to the list.
>Blissfully Building away
>Marc DeGirolamo
>-4 #3289
>Saskatoon,SK.
>Canada
>
>
>
>
Is it an RV-4 that you are talking about?
If so RV-4's usually have more than enough cooling already and wouldn't
generally need a larger exit opening.
I don't think this is a common problem, it may be related to the exhaust
system he is trying to install, Or something else specific to his engine
compartment design/layout.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: List problem? |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>I have been noticing lately that I see replies to original posts that
>I
>>have never received, and I think that I have sent some posts that
>have
>>never been transmitted to the list.
>>Has anyone else been experiencing this?
>>Is it common to E-mail service or maybe my E-mail server?
>>
>>E-mail ignorant
>>
>>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>--------------
>
>
>Hum, I think that last paragraph explains it best... :-)
>
>Seriously though, Juno has a pretty low threshold for what they
>consider a
>'full' mail box. When this threshold is met, Juno will no longer
>accept
>incoming email to that address. It actually sends a message back to
>the
>sender saying that the target email address has a full mail box.
>Seems like
>they should sent one to the full mailbox too. Anyway, that's likely
>why
>you arn't getting email at times...
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-List Admin.
>
>
>
Thanks Matt,
I know that Juno isn't the ideal E-mail service, and it probably causes
you a lot of headaches.
I don't think that is the cause of the problem though, because I check
the box every day to make sure it doesn't get to full. Unless you have
been getting some mail to me kicked back?
It seems that it is a post that is missing from the middle of a bunch
that I receive, and sometimes one that I send doesn't seem to get there
(but maybe I get what I do't pay for).
Scott
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Scott said:
>
>> Give me my airplane (160 HP and fixed pitch prop.) with only 12 gal
>of
>> fuel and the other seat empty any day, over a 180 with constant
>speed
>> prop. but loaded up with all kinds of other weight adding stuff.
>
>Maybe the guy with the constant speed 180, a full IFR panel and full
>tanks has
>a mission that includes crossing high mountain ranges with a passenger
>and poor
>weather below? Then 12 gal might not be adequate. Likewise the
>160hp.
>
>The 180 CS can fly both missions. The 160 can't.
>
>Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission Mission
>Mission
>
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Jim Cone is right - drilling your
>finger hurts.
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
>
>
Oh come on, get real.
Please look at the context of the post.
Flying for fun!!!!!
Do you think I head off across the mountains on a trip with 12 gal on
board? If you don't then I don't think your comparison is relevant.
Everyone can build there airplanes the way they want (isn't that what its
all about)
I was simple trying to stress the effect of weight (far to many of the
people who build the "got to have everything in the airplane that I can
cram in" airplanes haven't a clue as to what kind of performance they
would have had if they had lightened up a bit :)
With 160 HP and fixed pitch prop I too have departed airports with
density altitudes above 10,000. I have done it at 1650 lbs and not used
any more than 3500 ft of runway.
BTW my airplane is basic IFR and nicely finished but still weighs 125 lbs
less than some RV-6A's that I know of, which means the're already
carrying 5/8ths of that 200 pound passenger when flying solo.
Sorry... I don't me this to sound so strong, but some times I wonder were
the fun is in this. My post also in no way was meant to say that
180/constant speed was a bad idea. Reread the post. At the end I said
that a moderate weight RV with such was the ultimate.
Scott
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Doubler-RV-8 |
>by about one inch. But the 26" length as called for in the plans brings
the
>doubler out even with the rear spar, which makes more sense to me.
What's the
>Scoop? Have found a lot of small errors in the RV-8 manual and plans so
far,
>seems like more than my previous RV-4 kit. I guess this is to be
expected with
>a new product like this.
>
>Von Alexander
>Independence, Or.
>MAlexan533(at)aol.com
Von,
Been there myself! The 26" dimension is correct..it ends flush with the
rear spar, otherwise it would create additional thickness there to
*possibly* scuff the daylights outta the flap skin. The sheets in the
kit you mentioned are the ones to use. The doubler butts up against the
main spar flange, and only slightly overhangs the outboard rib in the
wing walk area..whichever Rib number that happens to be. It is flush
with the wing skin on the inboard end.
This had me rather confused too, but it was quite easy to fit, and I'm
going to be riveting it in place later this week..FINALLY!
Have fun!
Brian Denk
-8 #379
flaps, skins and landing light
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
<< In a 60 degree banked turn the g-force would be 2.
>>
Oops, my mistake
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | gear leg farings |
I just received my gear leg farings from Mark Fredrick. They are a thing of
beauty, larger in chord then the stock ones but the look is right. I have
not yet installed them but it should be easier then the aluminum ones. As
well there have been lots of the aluminum ones wear out in the overlap area,
this will not happen with these as they are one piece.
Good work Mark!
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step(auxilary step?) |
Being an aero engineer, I have a hard time bringing myself around to hanging
that step out there in the breeze. We plan to look at posssibly mounting the
internal hardware to mount the step, cut the external hole and put a cover
plate over the hole. Then when I get too old or decide that I am already too
old, we'll install the step. In the meantime when we fly with someone who
needs the step, we were thinking of carrying a simple folding step for those
who need it. Has anyone come up with a good carry along step.
Bernie Kerr, S. Fla., working 6A fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate air |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Denny,
I used a gas tank quick drain fitting inside the cockpit. Works great
and is easy to use. Use the style that can be locked open.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
> I have been looking for a valve for an alternate static air set
up.
>Has anyone suggestions what to use and where they could be gotten? I
have
>had any luck at the usual sorces such as Spruce.
>
>Have a Great Day!
> denny-->> RV-6
> harje(at)proaxis.com
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
Moe is correct. I posted the original message on this, and it seems
to have veered off course. It is just a way to ensure edge distance
on the 602 and nothing else. My suggestion was simply to drill the
610 and 614 *before* trimming the 602, then decide if you want to
leave the radius of the flange on the 602 for edge distance. You
certainly don't have to if you dont need the edge distance, like me.
The manual and George's video have you trim the 602 before drilling
the 610s/614s. I had read posts about folks having to trash the 602s
over edge distance, and I bungled onto this approach. Thought it
might help someone just starting avoid a early disappointment.
Chris Browne
-6 emp
Only screwed up 3 rivets in the HS last night!
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: RV-List: HS-602s
Date: 2/2/98 11:09 PM
I think the point is to leave enough material so edge distance isn't a
problem here, something that everyone seems to screw up. (I did)
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> Sorry but I just have to butt in here. People are talking about bending
>
this flange to avoid notching it, but why?...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
>
><< I am building a 6A and would like to hear from others on the pros and
> cons of installing a step(s) on my 6A. >>
>
>The installation is very straightforward and I'm glad I installed them (one on
>each side) on my 6A.
>
I'll second that. The weight/drag penalty is small compared to the
convenience they add. Without them it is a very big step up over the flap
and onto the wing. Even at my tender age of 28, it would be difficult to
get on the wing without them. The steps also reduce the chance of slipping
and destroying a flap.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying :)
getting
a new set of F-631As. I have thought of a spacer. But that would be hard
to make look right.
How are you guys finishing the roll bar under the canopy? I would
prefer to not to put a fiberglass bar over that area unless I have no
choice. I over heard someone say they used Proseal between the roll bar and
the canopy. However I did not get a chance to ask about the treatment or
see it either.
Have a Great Day!
denny-->> RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
<< Do what I and a lot of other builders have done.
Get a remote spin on filter bracket from the performance automotive store
and plum it in series with the oil cooler using hoses.
If you look at the oil circuit diagram in the Lyc. overhaul man. in
conjunction with looking at an accessory case and normally supplied spin
on adapter you will see that the path that the oil takes is the same as
if you plumb them in series with each other.
You still use you screen housing so that you still have the function of
the vernatherm but you remove the screen from it.
>>
I'm not a Lycoming expert, but as I understand it, the vernatherm allows
cold oil to bypass the oil cooler. As the oil temp increases, the vernatherm
starts to close off the bypass and start to force some of the oil through the
cooler. If the oil gets hot enough, the vernatherm totally closes off the
bypass and forces all of the oil through the cooler. So if your filter is in
series with the cooler, wouldn't your oil only be filtered when it gets hot?
And if your flying in really cold temps, maybe only part of the oil supply is
getting filtered? This probably isn't a problem, but just a thought.
Mark LaBoyteaux
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
RV-6a N106RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | engine weight and flap reflex |
| From: | Paul and Janet Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
In the many discussions I see on and off the list I see no clear figures comparing
Lycoming engine weight in the configuration I am using to other common configurations.
I wonder how much more (or little more) my A3B6d IO360 with Van's
lightweight starter and alternator, wood prop, no vacuum system, no prop governer
and one Bendix mag and lightweight EI triggers weigh compared to my friend's
IO320 with stock accessories, vacuum pump, prop governer, two mags and constant
speed prop. The IO360's more efficient cylinder heads and extra crank
balance weights add a little more weight, but the rest of the package is about
as light as is practical. Does anybody have access to some Lycoming engine weight
numbers that would apply here?
Those of us building manual flaps on 6ses can easily add detents to the selector
" banana" in steps as we wish (10-20-30). Has anyone tried to reflex their
flaps a couple degrees for cruise flight? It seems it would be easy to do and
since it is worth a couple MPH on my present airplane so I am tempted to try
it on my 6A.
Answers giving hard facts , heartfelt opinion or wild guesses will be welcomed
and given appropriate consideration : )
Thanks,
Paul
6A IO360, about to fit cowl
_____________________________________
* The Leins *
* 1555 South Brinton Road *
* Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 *
* (517) 644-2451 *
_____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy/fairing strip sealant |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>M-D makes all sorts of sealants. I use the grey (matches the interior paint I
>usually use) 50 yr stuff between the plexi and the skirts- look for those
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
Mark,
This must be terribly obvious to most people but not to me. I am at this
stage and am interested in this sealant, but what is "M-D?"
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Tip-Up Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Info for finish kit on RV-4 |
>......there is no need buying
> parts that I won't use in the finish kit.
>
Uneeded parts may be returned, but I found out the hard way they charge
you a 15% "restocking fee".
Bob Reiff
ted, it doesn't.
Actually, it's the reverse. If the amount of water appears to INCREASE,
that means there is alcohol in the gas. The alcohol comes out of
solution from the gas and mixes with the water.
EAA HQ has an info packet on auto fuel which includes the test
procedure.
Bob Reiff
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
Another tool that works very well is seaming plyers, the vise grip
version sold by Avery's. Just clamp them onto the longeron and twist
away.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com [SMTP:smcdaniels(at)Juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:51 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones)
MCDANIELS)
>
>Twisting tool:
>
>3' section of 2X4. Cut a saw kerf (groove left by the blade)
3/4"
>deep, 1/8"
>wide, 4" from one end. The angle will fit into this tool
(tightly). It
>takes a
>surprising amout of twist with this tool (110 deg or so) to get
the
>required
>small twist. Remember- the longeron will only twist between the
clamp
>and the
>side of the tool nearest the clamp.
>
>This is one tool that the Snap-On man doesn't carry.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
>
>
Something that I do that some may find quicker and easier.
Use 2 adjustable (crescent) wrenches with tape on the jaws.
Clamp the wrenches on the longeron at the 2 opposite ends of
where you
want the twist to occur and twist until you have what you want.
This method allows you to do the twisting in the jig until you
get the
longerons to match the weldments.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
Actually, on a tail dragger the filter stays full of oil. Anyone who has done
a filter change on a an RV with a tail wheel could attest to this.
BTW, when I change my oil I raise the tail so the filter will drain.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Whelan <twhelan(at)f22l11.mar.lmco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
Gil Alexander wrote:
>
> >
> >>< >
> >I'm surpised nobody has mentioned this yet but it is completely unnecessary
> >to use Alumiprep with Variprime. Variprime has acid in it and is self
> >ectching. It will stick very well to any reasonably clean surface.
> >Alumiprep offers no advantage that I can think of except adding more work
> >to the least fun part of the project.
>
> ALERT .. this is NOT true if you read the DuPont AIRCRAFT painting manual.
> They specifically state that aircraft surfaces must be etched and alodined
> before priming for a satisfactory paint job.
>
> Ignore this if you don't believe what the manufacturer says about
> his product.
>
> ... Gil (read the instructions) Alexander
>
> And yes .. it's definitely in the archives.
>
> >
> >John
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> mailto:gila(at)flash.net
> Gil Alexander,
> Los Angeles, CA
Then why use their self-etching primer at all? I understand surfaces must be
etched and alodined before using the epoxy primers, but the self-etching ones as
well?
Still sorting through the mounds of primer information,
Todd Whelan
RV-8 #554
Atlanta, GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RMille6453(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Doubler-RV-8 |
Hiya Von,
I had the same trouble. And I just went for it! Then I got to buy more
aluminum!!! :( Cut the Doublers so they butt up against the spar flange and
then overhang the rear spar an inch or so. I called Van's and thats what i
was told to do.
Been there, done that.
Rob Miller
Rv8 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WstcttPrss(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step(auxilary step?) |
In a message dated 2/3/98 6:22:02 AM, you wrote:
<>
Has anyone tried a spring-loaded fold-out step?
Jeff Carpenter
RV-6
Altadena, CA
wstcttprss(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
My fuel sampler has this check printed on the side of the cup.
----------
From: Bob Reiff[SMTP:Reiff(at)execpc.com]
Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 8:47 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Auto Fuel
> The container I use to check for water in the tanks have
calibrated lines
> on it.
>
> I forget what they call the container I use, but its sold
everywhere and
> it's
> been around for God knows how long. If someone else on the
list knows what
> the correct name for this glass container is feel free to butt
in.
I'll butt. I like to use a plastic syringe. You can suck up gas
directly from the can without any mess. 10 parts gas to 1 part
water.
Size isn't too important, but I use a 35 mm.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Info for finish kit on RV-4 |
> Uneeded parts may be returned, but I found out the hard way they charge
> you a 15% "restocking fee".
>
Van's is very, very, fair in all dealings I've had them. Many businesses won't
take stuff back at all.
I know that the 15% restocking charge does NOT cover the cost of taking them
back. They have to handle inbound freight; unpack without losing small parts;
deal with customer if parts are smashed up; identify part and make sure it is
unused; deal with customer if parts are rusted, have extra holes in them etc;
put part in proper stocking location; update inventory; create credit memo;
adjust customer account or send check - and probably a few steps I didn't think
about.
I don't mean to preach but most people who have not run their own businesses
and many who have, don't understand what things really cost. When I had my
Honda motorcycle business, we used to mark up small dollar parts 200% and more.
For example, we would buy handle bar grip rubbers from Honda in bags of ten
for like 16 cents each. Normal markup made them like 27 cents! Even in the
late sixtys, this was cheap! We sell one and make 11 cents - no actually we
would lose a dollar or more. So we would mark them up to maybe 97 cents. If
we didn't make our business profitable, the customers would be the losers as
there would be no dealership or at least not one as fair as we were. The way
many 'modern' businesses deal with the cost of handling small items is to not
handle small items.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
| Subject: | engine weight and flap reflex |
You sent:
> <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
>
> Has anyone tried to reflex their flaps a couple degrees for cruise
> flight? It seems it would be easy to do and since it is worth a couple
> MPH on my present airplane so I am tempted to try it on my 6A.
>
> Paul
> 6A IO360, about to fit cowl
>
I second the question - I've wondered about reflexing the flaps to a
positive position. Seems like I've heard of some planes which reflex to
about a +7 degrees and pick up an additional 10 knots. Scott - how
about you? Does Van's have anything to offer on this?
Keith Jensen
-6a emp in process
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy/fairing strip sealant |
<< This must be terribly obvious to most people but not to me. I am at this
stage and am interested in this sealant, but what is "M-D?"
>>
Well, if you're talking about my favorite wine,.....
It's the sealant manufacturer- Macklandburg-Duncan.
Incurable wise-guy
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: seeking rick reynolds |
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>I need to get in touch with Rich Reynolds...
Richreyn(at)aol.com
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA
john.bright(at)bigfoot.com
H:757-886-1161, W:757-875-7324
RV-6/6A 25088, rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root fairings |
corp.las vill(at)s.co
> Does the RV-6 kit come with strips of aluminum for the wing root fairings?
Yes. It's shown on the plans as .025 2024-T3 wing root fairing, and
"Rubber Channel". There may be other part numbers but I don't see
them on the plans.
I'm not sure if you'd want to use the -6 aluminum parts as they are cut
more or less to shape to fit the fuselage which will of course
be different on the -4. Probably just as easy to buy just the
channel and some .025 and make them yourself.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pmartin Compaq" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersunk Platenuts - Help |
----------
> From: Pmartin Compaq
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersunk Platenuts - Help
> Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 10:05 PM
>
Compaq"
>
> Dear Dave.
> I found the platenuts that you are looking for as well as a lot of other
> hard to find hardware at very reasonable prices at: B & B Aircraft
> Supplies, Gardner Airport, Gardner Kansas. I don't have the rest of the
> address by this computer, however a call to information wil l get you
the
> telephone number and you can call them.
> Also I think that they have the Parker Alternate Air valves new surplus
> that one of the other listers was looking for.
> Dick Martin
>
> RV8 fuselage almost finished waiting for finish kit
>
> ----------
> > From: DFaile(at)aol.com
> > To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Countersunk Platenuts - Help
> > Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:24 PM
> >
> >
> > I am looking for help with platenuts (nutplates).
> >
> > Back a few years, I was building a biplane and some of the sheet metal
> and
> > steel parts had nutplates attached. Looking back on this, I remember
that
> some
> > of the nutplate holes were drilled and dimpled. The nutplates supplied
> were
> > dimpled where the rivets are installed.
> >
> > I have tried to locate dimpled nutplates (I have only a very few left
> over
> > from the biplane). The application on an RV seems significant. For
> example:
> > Some of the floor ribbs have nutplates installed on the ribb flange and
> they
> > must be countersunk (thin metal but it does have the steel nutplate as
a
> > reinforcement). If we could locate nutplates with dimples, we could
> dimple the
> > ribb flange which is easier than countersink and many (including me)
say
> > stronger. Take this a step farther: We could use countersunk pull stem
> (blind
> > rivets) and make the work even shorter.
> >
> > AH! You say that pull stem countersunk rivets are 100 degree, not 120
> degree
> > as normal rivets. Yes, this is true, but you can get a 100 degree
> countersink
> > cutter and even a Roper Whitney punch with a 100 degree dimple die.
> >
> > Has anybody thought of this application? Here is what I have found out
so
> far.
> > The nutplates are K1000-08. This is also MS21047. If a "K" is added, it
> is
> > countersunk. The nutplates are made by a company (Kaynar) supposedly in
> > Placentia CA. I have not been able to locate a telephone number for
them
> > who they sell them to.
> >
> > If you can help, please let me know (off list is acceptable). Thanks
> >
> > david faile CFII A&P
> > DFaile(at)aol.com
> > fairfield, ct
> > Christen Eagle since '82
> > RV6 started
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau) |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step(auxilary step?) |
Re: ideas for other step configurations......
How about a folding step that folds up into the fuselage (Cessna RG-style)
or one that unlocks and pulls straight up into the interior of the plane...???
That ought to keep a few aeronautical engineers busy for a few nights.
8<}
Paul M. Bilodeau
pbilodeau(at)att.com
732-957-6611
RV-6A Empennage
Building Horizontal Stabilizer.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HLP Near Virginia Beach, VA |
Martin Quartim wrote:
>
> After a lot of research seems that the RV is the only airplane that meet my
There are about 8 RV-6's abuilding in the area, 3 on the southside and
5 on the peninsula. None are flying yet. Mike Seagar from Van's is
coming April 12-14 with his RV-6 for "lessons".
Call me at 627-8743, anytime.(except this Tuesday night, I'm going to
the EAA meeting)
Dick Reynolds, Norfolk, wings almost finished, starting the fuselage
bulkheads.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
Bob, not hard to remove starter, may do so after next 5 hours or so if
condition persists. Local experts suspect it's excess grease.
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pjl51(at)Juno.com (Patrick J LaVigne) |
Can anyone tell my how to access the archives? I've try'ed , but no
luck. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, so I can't correct it.
Thanks,
Pat LaVigne
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
<< The alcohol left the gas and mixed with the water.
>>
Thanks alot. That method seems it would work pretty good.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Need 5x or 6x rivet gun |
Does anyone in the Minneapolis area have a large rivet gun 5x or 6x I could
borrow or rent. I am just starting to rivet my spars and would like to use a
rivet gun to set those large rivets.
Please respond directly to me Jdaniel343(at)aol.com, (John L. Danielson)
Rv-6A - Empanage finished, riveting wing spars
Thanks for any help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Mazda Rotary Conversion Book |
NOW IN STOCK!
The Aviators Guide to Mazda Rotary Conversions
by Tracy Crook
A detailed analysis and installation instructions for those considering
installing a Mazda 13B Rotary engine in their RV. Written by Tracy Crook
who has installed the engine in his RV-4 and now has over 600 hours time
on it. discounted price - $29.95
also,
18 YEARS OF THE RV-ATOR is now in production and will be available for
shipping in March. Anyone ordering now (before March 1st) can get it at
the discounted price of $27.95.
See our web page:
http://www.rvbookstore.com
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Maybe the guy with the constant speed 180, a full IFR panel and full
tanks has
>a mission that includes crossing high mountain ranges with a passenger
>and poor weather below? Then 12 gal might not be adequate. Likewise
the
>160hp.
>The 180 CS can fly both missions. The 160 can't.
It can't? I'm not sure I follow. Scott was obviously talking about
flying with minimum fuel for sport flying, not mountain crossing. Now
why can't a 160hp installation cross tall mountains with poor wx below?
A 160hp engine burns the same amount of fuel at a given hp setting as a
180, so the range will be equal or better than a 180. At full gross my
6A will climb at 500+fpm at 10,000', so I don't think safety is an issue.
Certainly there is more available performance with 180/cs, but the 160/fp
is EASILY up to the task. Plus, if the mission involves saving a big bag
of money, the 180/cs can't fly THAT mission...
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg farings (Mark Fredericks) |
How much are his gear leg fairings, and do you have his number?
Thanks in advance.
I absolutely can not STAND anything on an airplane (especially an RV)
that adds weight, drag, or especially both, and does not "carry its
weight". In some folks' case I'm sure it does. I have noticed some
people say that it is a necessity if you are not a certain height or
inseam length. I don't agree. My 6A does not have a step on either
side, and while I am 6'3", my wife is only 5'2". She flies with me
constantly and has no problems. I ALWAYS leave the flaps fully down when
parked to keep people off of them, and getting in and out is very easy.
It would be very difficult to get in with the flaps up, but I would be
worried about other people doing that step or no step. I also recommend
some no-skid tape or paint for added security.
I have only flown one passenger that had any problem, and he was a rather
overweight, elderly gentleman. Even then, he was able to get in and out
with only slight assistance.
IMO, it is really not a big issue. As long as the flaps are down, a
quick briefing will get your passenger in without trouble. If the
primary pilot has trouble due to age or infirmity, then it would be
necessary. There are a lot of people that feel they ARE a necessity, and
that's fine. I feel they are a waste of weight and drag. It is FAR
easier to board a 6A without steps than it is to check the fuel on a
Cessna...
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Stimulator |
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> I missed the final verdict on the RV add-ons for the latest Flight Simulator.
Where can I get them?
>
> Larry
> larry(at)bowen.com
> RV-8 Emp.
Larry;
You can get the RV-4 from one of these sites and along with it the
conversion program that loads the files in the correct location. The
RV-4 flies pretty well.
John kitz
N721JK
Ohio
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/7109/
http://www.swannet.com.au/~moby/hangar/patches.html
http://simflight.com/mikem
http://www.swannet.com.au/~moby/hangar/index2.html#Software
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
Question,
I began riveting my spar with the Avery C-frame tool. Seems to work ok. I
have been using a 4lb. hammer and 4 to 5 blows per rivet. I started outboard
and am working my way toward the root, riveting first one rivet on the upper
spar flanges and then the corresponding rivet on the bottom spar flanges.
Using this method I only C-clamp toward the inboard side since I already have
a rivet that has been set outboard of the rivet I am currently setting.
The problem is I have a gap between the spar flange and the spar web, about
0.009" to 0.011". There is no gap at the rivet location (approx. 1/4" to 3/8"
away from the rivet to the rivet location).
I would like to be able to put C-clamps right next to the rivet I am
setting but this is not possible due to the proximity of the C-frame tool.
I am only up to Station 73.5" (aileron bell-crank location), so most of my
problem exists with the first spar flange although the first 3 rivets with the
next spar flange are this way also.
Any suggestions will be much appreciated. I am considering drilling out
these rivets and trying again but I thought I would see what all the
knowlagable folks here have to offer.
John L. Danielson
Jdaniel343(at)aol.com
Empanage finished (except trim tab)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Need 5x or 6x rivet gun |
Hi Daniel,
When i did my spars, I call Vans. The shipped me a large rivet squezzer,
I set my rivets in two days, shipped it back to vans. Cost me $10 plus
shipping. Perfect rivets every one.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, CA
>
>Does anyone in the Minneapolis area have a large rivet gun 5x or 6x I
>could
>borrow or rent. I am just starting to rivet my spars and would like to
>use a
>rivet gun to set those large rivets.
>Please respond directly to me Jdaniel343(at)aol.com, (John L. Danielson)
>Rv-6A - Empanage finished, riveting wing spars
>Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jharmstrong(at)attmail.com (Jack H Armstrong) |
Phone: 540-668-6152
| Subject: | Willing to help (want to learn) |
Folks,
As a new pilot, new member to the list and an RV wannabe, I would
like to offer my help in exchange for some experience with RV's. I will
be in San Fran/Livermore area on business from Feb 9-20, and most of my
free time will be on the weekend. From looking at some of the postings,
it appears that there is an active contingent of RV builders in the
SF/Livermore area and I would love to use the weekend "learning RV".
Please reply to:
jharmstrong(at)att.com
Thanks in advance,
Jack
Jack Armstrong
N3005X
Hamilton, Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
<3.0.1.16.19980202224947.30af49f8(at)dtc.net>
>
>Bob, not hard to remove starter, may do so after next 5 hours or so if
>condition persists. Local experts suspect it's excess grease.
>--
That's sort of my take too . . . but "stiff" like wax . . .
If it's dripping out of the motor opposite it's attachment
to the gear box, it wouldn't say much for the bearings and/or
care with which they were lubricated . . . inquiring minds
really want to know . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chagen(at)ideasign.com (Craig Hagen) |
| Subject: | Builders in SE South Dakota |
Listers:
Looking for any builders on RV list in the SE South Dakota area. I am in
Sioux Falls, SD, building RV6A and would like to see if anyone out there
happens to be close by.
Thanks.
Please reply directly to:
chagen(at)ideasign.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
<19980112.054802.9526.4.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Scott,
Do you by any chance recall the brand name of that remote right angle
adapter? Are they available at any automotive speed shop?
BTW, I agree with your comments about keeping the airplane light. It
makes all the difference. My 180/CS RV4 is fairly well equipped but VFR
only. It only weighs 976# MTY,paint & upholstry included.
Regards, Bill, N66WD
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
>Actually, on a tail dragger the filter stays full of oil. Anyone who has done
>a filter change on a an RV with a tail wheel could attest to this.
>
>BTW, when I change my oil I raise the tail so the filter will drain.
>
Cut the bottom out of a one gallon plastic milk jug and stick it upside down
under your oil filter before you change it. The jug is flexible enough to
bend around hoses and other obstructions. It will catch most of the drips
(provided of course, that you leave the cap on the milk jug).
Mark
RV-6; flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dennis Kane <dennis(at)straylight.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mazda Rotary Conversion Book |
I was crusing the net and came upon a web page for Electroluminescent
lighting systems (aftermarket and experimental both) for cockpit
instrument panels. That is the good news. (one product was a strip that
went under the panel brow to shine down on the instruments, all were 9volt
powered)
Bad news is that now that I need the information, I can't find the company
or the web page.
Can anyone help?
Respectfully,
Dennis Kane
STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe hart <joehart(at)erols.com> |
anyone have any used tools in good shape that they would like to sell,
especially a rivet squeezer and a 2x gun. sent to joehart(at)erols.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
I have always heard that etching before using a self-etching primer is
not a good idea. Why etch twice anyway? I just clean the metal with
"Simple Green" or S/W "Ultra Clean" and spray. Seems to stick just fine.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 HS primed with Sherwin Williams 988 Self Etching
>
> Then why use their self-etching primer at all? I understand surfaces must be
> etched and alodined before using the epoxy primers, but the self-etching ones
as
> well?
>
> Still sorting through the mounds of primer information,
> Todd Whelan
> RV-8 #554
> Atlanta, GA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg farings (Mark Fredericks) |
>
>How much are his gear leg fairings, and do you have his number?
>Thanks in advance.
email Mark at mlfred(at)aol.com.
He is most helpful and will send the farings out with the bill,
Tom martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Spar |
JDaniel343(at)aol.com wrote:
> I am considering drilling out
> these rivets and trying again but I thought I would see what all the
> knowlagable folks here have to offer.
Think twice before drilling out lots of those 3/16" rivets. I drilled
out a total of 10 or 12... it was a *major* pain in the neck, and the
replacement rivets weren't much better than the ones I drilled out.
Anything that's "barely acceptable" is acceptable... leave it alone!
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
I have found that most parts from Van's are made pretty well, but the
boarding steps needed a lot of work to fit. The biggest problem was the
angle (in the airplane's roll axis) between the torque tube and the plate
which attaches to the (vertical) rib. As received, the torque tube would
have exited the bottom skin, at its inboard end. Not particularly desiring
this, I cut a pie shaped piece out of the torque tube and rewelded it at
the appropriate angle. The step portion is at a negative 12 degree angle
of attack, which should reduce the workload on the elevator. I chose to
not rework it.
BTW, I stole the idea of putting the step inside of the skin from another
builder. It complicated fitting the side skins a little, but not a big
deal and it looks a lot better. A couple of joggles in the ribs is all that
is really required.
Alex Peterson
6A (bending, cutting, welding etc. the slider frame)
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eilene VanGrunsven <100556.2660(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
Concerning the steps; they can be mounted from the inside with flush AN426
3 rivets on the outside. Machine countersink the steel plate, dimple the
skin, etc. Move the step back about one half of an inch, or trim the steel
plate to clear the vertical rib. One baggage floor rib will need to be
notched, and a spliced plate fabricated and installed after the step is
mounted.
Two planes in the Portland area have been done this way.
Disclaimer: This technique is a personal innovation and not necessarily
approved by my big brother.
Stan Van Grunsven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Curt Reimer <Curt_Reimer(at)MBnet.MB.CA> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Stimulator |
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> I missed the final verdict on the RV add-ons for the latest Flight Simulator.
Where can I get them?
>
> Larry
> larry(at)bowen.com
> RV-8 Emp.
Sorry Larry, but just havn't been able to get the RVs to work very well with FS98.
They were originally
designed with FS 5.1. I might have to wait for the 98 version fo FLight SHop, if
it ever exists, and
redo the flight models from scratch.
I'll keep working in it when I have the time, and post any positive results to
the list.
If you like I can send you the RV-6A files. That's the only one that is reasonably
flyable, but
its not really up to snuff. Kind of unstable in yaw.
Curt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine weight and flap reflex |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
The IO360's more efficient cylinder heads and
>extra crank balance weights add a little more weight, but the rest of
>the package is about as light as is practical. Does anybody have
>access to some Lycoming engine weight numbers that would apply here?
I believe the specs that Lycoming provide with the counter weighted
IO-360 said that it is 50 pounds heavier than a parallel valve O-360 with
the same accessories.
>
>Those of us building manual flaps on 6ses can easily add detents to
>the selector " banana" in steps as we wish (10-20-30). Has anyone
>tried to reflex their flaps a couple degrees for cruise flight? It
>seems it would be easy to do and since it is worth a couple MPH on my
>present airplane so I am tempted to try it on my 6A.
>
I am not an Aerodynamics engineer (anyone else able to comment)
but I believe gaining any benefit from this requires a specific design
airfoil. And even some of those that were specified to benefit from it,
after testing proved to have no measurable change. I do know that some
airplane (and sail planes) do benefit from this, but as far as I know no
testing has ever been done on an RV. It would also take quite a bit of
modifying of the flap to get it to travel above the standard neutral
point.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
the oil circuit goes through the
filter housing and then out through the cooler (or the other way around;
can't remember now). The way it is set up the vernatherm provides a
bypass for the cooler and the filter. Cold thick oil doesn't flow
through a paper media filter very well.
So if you have a screen housing you can remove the screen, but continue
using the housing to retain the function of the vernatherm.
All of the builders that I know of doing this installation have run from
the oil cooler outlet port, to the filter adapter, then to the oil
cooler, and then finally back to the cooler return port.
This allows you to inexpensively mount the filter vertically, but
beware; you can still have oil mess when removing the filter because you
now drain the cooler and the related lines (but you can decide where the
mess will be dealt with (it also might get more of the normally
undrainable oil out of the system depending on how you did your
installation).
I think when I bought my adapter (6 or so years ago) it was about $20.
Add to that one more hose, a couple of fittings and reducers and your
done.
As I mentioned in a previous post I use a CH48108 filter because it has a
bypass valve built in (same price as a CH48110), because the Lyc spin on
adapter has a spring loaded by pass valve built in.
Tom at Vans has talked about using performance automotive filters that
are rated for high pressure to save some money but I have never bothered
(or wanted to take the chance) with it.
BTW the adapter that I have is cast aluminum, and probably weighs about
the same as what the spin on adapter weighs, so there is some weight gain
from retaining the screen housing and adding another hose but not too
much
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
Ed Bundy wrote:
>
> I have noticed some
> people say that it is a necessity if you are not a certain height or
> inseam length. I don't agree. My 6A does not have a step on either
> side, and while I am 6'3", my wife is only 5'2". She flies with me
> constantly and has no problems.
Ok! Sport at 6'3" you shouldn't have a problem. Your wife at 5'2" is
small
and most likely very flexible.
>
> I have only flown one passenger that had any problem, and he was a "Rather
Overweight Elderly Gentleman" Even then, he was able to get in and out
> with only slight assistance.
Does this mean he would'nt have been able to mount his steed and fly
without
help from some young buck.
>
>
There are a lot of people that feel they ARE a necessity, and
> that's fine. I feel they are a waste of weight and drag.
ED! Tell us just how much drag does this step constitute for us
"Newbees"
who want to build our plane for comfort and convienience. I mean
fuel flow, speed reduction on an RV6 O-360 C/S. And not for the sake of
the
Old MACHO image.
>
>
Rather Overweight Gentleman Builder,
61yrs.
DON
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
> Sorry... I don't me this to sound so strong, but some times I wonder were
> the fun is in this. My post also in no way was meant to say that
> 180/constant speed was a bad idea. Reread the post. At the end I said
> that a moderate weight RV with such was the ultimate.
>
> Scott
>
>
I can't agree with you more. And from what I've seen on here you have
more to say that's worth listening to than most. I'm building an RV6
with an O-360,C/S.
Your point is made only in to qualify the fact that weight is important
and not neccessarily horse power and prop.
Building an airplane is a personel thing it's your inner self comming
out in a form and it's your creation. How you want it to be fitted is
your own preference and how you plan to use the airplane. Personally I
think too much is being made over all this damn speed; and one should
not try to coerce another to build his plane other than the way he wants
it. I don't care if I lose 5,8,or even 10 miles per hour if the plane if
fitted with the ammenities I want and performs well enough to take me
safely in a reasonable time to my destination. If I want to build a CAFE
racer than I'll go at it another way.
I also think that this sort of talk puts some of the builders in a
position thinking that if they don't build there RV according to these
standards then they have a "DOG". Hogwash!!
Before I decided to build an RV I flew many old classic airplanes. I
sold a PA-12 to buy this plane. One thing I'll always remember about
slow airplanes, was every Sunday we would fly out to have breakfast
somewhere. I took off first or whatever and innevidably when I got to
our destination all the planes that past me like I was tied; although
they had landed and were taxying in or were parked. I none the less was
on my down wind leg only to land 5-6 min behind them.
So Build your plane to enjoy it the way you want it. Not the way someone
else thinks you should. Screw the speed. Over the long run you'll never
know it. Enjoy the plane and the scenery. By the way I also flew jets.
Now there's speed!
MY OPINION,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lass <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Spar |
How about the way Van did it with the original RV-3 spars: (structual) adhesive
e.g. the T-88(?) from Aircraft Spruce. This way the spar caps become one block,
with no chance of the pieces separating while you rivit them, and they get even
stronger!
Finn
JDaniel343(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Question,
> The problem is I have a gap between the spar flange and the spar web, about
> 0.009" to 0.011". There is no gap at the rivet location (approx. 1/4" to 3/8"
> away from the rivet to the rivet location).
> Any suggestions will be much appreciated. I am considering drilling out
> these rivets and trying again but I thought I would see what all the
> knowlagable folks here have to offer.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 access cover dimples |
G'day folks,
I'm fitting the wing access hole covers and finding that the #8 dimples
don't sit very nicely together and the cover doesn't want to sit down
flush...or at least not as flush as I'd like. I used a countersink to
"shave" a skin dimple somewhat, and it did improve the fit, but wonder
if there's a better way to do it. Perhaps a lighter touch on the
squeezer when setting the dimples in the covers? Hmm...maybe...
Just wanted to check with you folks before continuing.
Thanks!
Brian Denk
-8 #379
flaps, skins and landing light underway
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi John
<>
Turn the rivets around and put the factory head on the thinner material.
After drilling out several rivets due to gaps I turned the outer 21 rivets
around and no more gaps.
This has been a problem on both HS and wing spars, see archives for more
data.
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
6A - mounting ribs on spars.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cfggg <ddebt(at)pathcom.com> |
What is your present airplane? The wing on the RV-3/4/6 has a NACA 5 digit
series airfoil (max camber 25% chord). There is a very small pitching moment
coefficient generated on these airfoils resulting in a small download on the
tail for balance.
The aircraft that use NACA 6 digit series or those airfoils developed from
the GAW airfoils (NLF on Lancair) have significantly higher pitching moment
coefficients (max camber 40 to 60% chord). The resulting increase in
balance load increases drag on the wing and tail.
The intent of reflexing the flaps is to reduce the trim drag. I don't think
it would make a difference on an RV.
On the other hand, while the flap is reflexed, the maximum lift of the wing
is reduced and the stall speed increases. The benefit here is a potential
increase in Va (how to loosen your fillings in turbulence faster).
David Fried
>
>Those of us building manual flaps on 6ses can easily add detents to the
selector " banana" in steps as we wish (10-20-30). Has anyone tried to
reflex their flaps a couple degrees for cruise flight? It seems it would be
easy to do and since it is worth a couple MPH on my present airplane so I am
tempted to try it on my 6A.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 access cover dimples |
>G'day folks,
>
>I'm fitting the wing access hole covers and finding that the #8 dimples
>don't sit very nicely together and the cover doesn't want to sit down
>flush...or at least not as flush as I'd like. I used a countersink to
>"shave" a skin dimple somewhat, and it did improve the fit, but wonder
>if there's a better way to do it. Perhaps a lighter touch on the
>squeezer when setting the dimples in the covers? Hmm...maybe...
>
A lighter touch when setting the dimples will only result in the screw heads
not sitting correctly. As you indicated, a few turns with a swivel
deburring tool on the skin will allow the dimple in the cover to nest nicely.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
I flew my RV6 for the first time this past Saturday (1/31) after four
years of building. Not having the vast apparent flying experience as
many on the list, I was somewhat apprehensive of my ability to land
the thing. The only other airplane I had flown solo was a Citabria I
used to own (about 200 hours). No time in an RV. It was late in the
day, clear and calm, and a crowd had gathered to see if Dicky could
actually fly the blue-yellow-red sunburst-painted jewel he had built.
Having run out of excuses and with my standing among the other pilots
at the airpark on the line, I cranked the newly rebuilt HIO-360.
Testing the radio I was asked how I felt and my reply was something
about not being able to drive a nail in a certain part of my anatomy.
I sat a the end of the runway a did about three runups to gather my
nerve. All okay, still no excuse to abort. Light grip on the stick,
toes ready on the rudders, left hand pushed the throttle lever
forward. Thought about raising the tail as it gathered speed, but in
about four seconds it just left the ground with no apparent effort
from me. Faster and higher, straight ahead. What an airplane!
I started flying circles about 2500 feet over the airfield while the
V-Tail Bonanza chase plane took off. Speed settled at a little over
160 knots. Had to slow a bit to let the Bonanza catch up..gloat...
Left wing slightly heavy, very little elevator trim required, same
with the rudder. Flew to an airport with a long, wide runway for the
first landing. Landed so short that I had extend the rollout to look
good for the video as I went by. This RV6 is easier to land than the
Citabria. Took off to return to the Lake Norman field (40' wide x
3000'). Had to make a pass for the crowd. Hit 212 mph (GPS ground
speed). Bearly touched the rudders on landing...tracks straight. I'm
still grinning. Champaign dinner with friends, special congratulations
from Trish...what a day!
Keep building, its truly worth it.
RV6, N54X, HIO-360-B1A, dual electronic ignition (Rose), Airwolf
remote oil filter, Performance Props 70X76 wood prop, harmonic
balancer, tip-up canopy, left-hand throttle/mixture quadrant,
MicroMonitor, Terra radios, Lauristen leather seats, Chroma One paint,
aluminum tail and canopy fairings, empty weight 1051.
Dick Steffens
Lake Norman, North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jepilot(at)Juno.com (J E REHLER) |
Any bottle with graduations marked will work, of course. Try a baby
bottle or tall olive bottle (add marks to the outside). Check your
local grocery store. There are lots of containers with graduated volume
marks. I used a baby bottle to test for alcohol in my Kitfox with a two
cycle engine but don't test for alcohol with the RV6A. Regards.
J. E. Rehler RV6A flying, Corpus Christi, Texas, W5KNZ
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
<19980112.054802.9526.0.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
| From: | Ian Kerr <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Useful load of engines (Was: alternate engines) |
Please let no-one think that a lower-powered RV is a "dog". Certainly not
in my eyes. Although I'd certainly like a lot of power, I'd probably
appreciate better economy and weight more (did I mention short-field
performance?). I'm beginning to think a little engine with a constant-speed
prop might be nicer than a big engine w/normal prop. A solid prop would be
nice and simple.
What I want is a few G's and a view! Otherwise, the airlines.
just 2c, have fun all,
Ian
>
>> Sorry... I don't me this to sound so strong, but some times I wonder were
>> the fun is in this. My post also in no way was meant to say that
>> 180/constant speed was a bad idea. Reread the post. At the end I said
>> that a moderate weight RV with such was the ultimate.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>
>I can't agree with you more. And from what I've seen on here you have
>more to say that's worth listening to than most. I'm building an RV6
>with an O-360,C/S.
snip
>
>So Build your plane to enjoy it the way you want it. Not the way someone
>else thinks you should. Screw the speed. Over the long run you'll never
>know it. Enjoy the plane and the scenery. By the way I also flew jets.
>Now there's speed!
>
>
>MY OPINION,
>Don
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine weight and flap reflex |
| From: | Paul and Janet Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
>I believe the specs that Lycoming provide with the counter weighted
>IO-360 said that it is 50 pounds heavier than a parallel valve O-360 with
>the same accessories.
Scott,
The Lycoming specs are : IO360A3B6D at 330lbs. with the heavy
prestolight starter , 60 amp alternator and stock "siamese"double mag.
My interest is in finding the weight of my engine with Van's accessories.
How much do you suggest I have reduced the weight by using the 7 1/2 lb
starter, 35 amp alternater and single Bendix mag? BTW, Lycoming told me
the O360 A1A was 285 lbs "dry" with accessories and I wonder which ones
they are -- it is hard to compare apples to apples without all the facts.
Information from Larry Betterman and Dave Anders leads me to believe my
engine configuration (similar to Dave's RV 4) will be producing about 225
hp. If I will be carrying a little less than one pound for each of those
extra horsepower I can live with that.
The comments about the likely ineffectualness of reflexing flaps with
Van's airfoil will certainly save me some hours of work. I sure was
hoping to hear from some RV builder who had already done it and had
quantifiable results. Thanks again for your info. Keep up the good work.
Cheers, Paul 6a
_____________________________________
* The Leins *
* 1555 South Brinton Road *
* Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 *
* (517) 644-2451 *
_____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
| From: | Paul and Janet Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
Dick,
Wow! That sounds like a great airplane! Congratulations on your first
flight. You give me a lot of encouragement in achieving my goal of a 1050
lb. 6A. I would be interested to hear how long it takes you to get
comfortable getting into shorter fields with your fixed pitch prop (my
field is 2300 ft. over obstacles). Thanks for the boost to my spirits.
Paul 6A- IO 360
_____________________________________
* The Leins *
* 1555 South Brinton Road *
* Mt. Pleasant, MI 48858-9628 *
* (517) 644-2451 *
_____________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com |
Call The Yard ( 800 ) 888-8991
>>anyone have any used tools in good shape that they would like to sell,
especially a rivet squeezer and a 2x gun. sent to joehart(at)erols.com<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | duane dickson <ddickson(at)sisna.com> |
| Subject: | where is John Hovan |
I have been trying to raise John Hovan for some time now but the server rv.austin.apple.com
doesn.t respond.
I'm presently building the wings on my rv-6 and have used to a great extent the
builders guide for the wings that I got from Hovan's home
page. I now want to get the fuselage guide but can't seem to get into John's home
page. The addres that I'm using is :
http://rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html. Can anyone help me??
thanks Duane Dickson.
-------------------------------------
Name: duane dickson
E-mail: ddickson(at)sisna.com
-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Colin Strong <Colin_Strong(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Spar |
I have the same gap on my HS rear spar.
Talked to a couple of local builders here who say that this gap shouldn't be a
big deal. Still debating on whether or not I should just re-do the rear spar
(don't feel like drilling out all those rivets).
Anyone have an opinion?
I Did do the front one correctly by putting the factory head on the thinner
side, and there is no gap.
Colin Strong
RV6 #25216 - Ready to jig up the HS
Hi John
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
You may also want to try Brown Tools, they carry some used stuff from
time to time. In fact I bought a die grinder from them.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
[SMTP:Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 3:04 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: used tools
Call The Yard ( 800 ) 888-8991
>>anyone have any used tools in good shape that they would like
to sell,
especially a rivet squeezer and a 2x gun. sent to
joehart(at)erols.com<<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: where is John Hovan |
ddickson(at)sisna.com wrote:
> I have been trying to raise John Hovan for some time now but the server
> rv.austin.apple.com doesn.t respond.
John no longer works at Apple.
Frank Justice's Supplemental Instructions, which is what I believe
you're looking for, can be found at
<http://www.edt.com:80/homewing/justice/index.html>.
Incidentally, anyone building wings should also look at Will
Cretsinger's notes <http://www.flash.net/~gila/> -- also has fuselage
jig construction notes and tip-up canopy notes.
My own Bunny's Guide
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunnytop.htm> has
my notes, plus ideas culled from the RV-list. It covers things from
starting at the beginning of the project, and goes up to the Wing LE
assembly (which where I'm at).
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David L. Macintire" <dave_mac(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
Todd Whelan wrote:
>
> Gil Alexander wrote:
>
> > >
> > >>< > >
> > >I'm surpised nobody has mentioned this yet but it is completely unnecessary
to use Alumiprep with Variprime.
> > snip
> > ALERT .. this is NOT true if you read the DuPont AIRCRAFT painting
snip
> Then why use their self-etching primer at all?
-snip-
Priming internal parts and priming for exterior painting seems to me to
be two separate considerations. Dupont is probably concerned (rightly
so) that your expensive (yes, their paints are) paint sticks and lasts
even against the onslaught of bugs and rain and other FOD encountered
during taxiing and flight. I don't think that internal priming warrants
such extensive procedures. However, there are exceptions. When I
visited Van's facility a year ago last month, I talked to Ken about this
very subject. He stated that even using Variprime, he strongly
suggested to use an etching system on the spar components since they are
what he considered critical to keep from corrosion. He suggested using
the plastic gutter technique to contain the liquid and dunk the parts in
it. Also, he suggested using alodine and then priming. One could
consider this overkill for etching primer, but we all need to think of
things that help us sleep better at night since there are so many little
conflicts while building that sometimes keep us from doing same.
As far as priming before exterior painting, though, I strongly recommend
following the manufacturer's instructions to the letter.
Listers, please comment.
Dave Macintire
RV-6 in Orlando
Almost ready to start my wing kit which I have had for almost a year!
(Shame on me!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: To Step or Not to Step |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Ok! Sport at 6'3" you shouldn't have a problem. Your wife at 5'2" is
>small and most likely very flexible.
Yes Don, that is true. I was stating that a "minimum inseam" was not
required for a flapless airplane. If one is 5'2" and not in good shape,
a step would be welcome.
> I have only flown one passenger that had any problem, and he was a
>"Rather Overweight Elderly Gentleman" Even then, he was able to get in
and out
> with only slight assistance.
Don, it is EXTREMELY poor form to change somebody's message and then
re-quote it. I did NOT capitalize the rather overweight elderly
gentleman, nor did I put quotation marks around it. I was simply stating
a fact, not drawing attention to it.
>Does this mean he would'nt have been able to mount his steed and fly
>without help from some young buck.
Probably, which is exactly what I said later in my post. My exact words
were: "If the primary pilot has trouble due to age or infirmity, then it
would be necessary."
>>There are a lot of people that feel they ARE a necessity, and
>> that's fine. I feel they are a waste of weight and drag.
>ED! Tell us just how much drag does this step constitute for us
>"Newbees" who want to build our plane for comfort and convienience. I
mean
>fuel flow, speed reduction on an RV6 O-360 C/S. And not for the sake of
the
>Old MACHO image.
I have no idea. This airplane has never had them, so there is no
comparison to be made. I do know that they add SOME weight and SOME
drag. For ME, they do not add enough convenience to overcome *any*
weight and drag that they add, which was the original intent of my post.
It has nothing to do with an "old macho image." How are steps un-macho
anyway?
As I stated in my precious post, I did not add any drag or weight that I
did not find absolutely necessary. I also trimmed weight everywhere
possible - lightening holes, no excess avionics, etc. My 6A came out at
997# without paint, with an 0-320 and metal fixed pitch prop. This is
fairly light, and it performs very well. To restate my previous post :
A minimum inseam is not the deciding factor - the pilot's age, condition,
etc, as well as potential passengers should be considered in addition to
your aversion (or lack thereof) of extra weight and drag. Some, most, or
all people may disagree with me and may prefer steps over any excess
weight and drag. This is fine. I don't want them, and if someone else
is making the decision, I don't want them to think that a certain
height/inseam is necessarily the deciding factor.
You want an RV with "comfort and convenience", that's terrific. I want
an RV that is light and fast. Also terrific. That's the beauty of
personal airplanes. Okay, "Sport"?
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
<< I flew my RV6 for the first time this past Saturday (1/31) after four
years of building. >>
CONGRADULATIONS!!!!!
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting Spar |
>RV-List message posted by: Frank van der Hulst
> > JDaniel343(at)aol.com wrote: I am considering drilling out these rivets and trying
again but >>I thought I would see what all the knowlagable folks here have
to offer. Think twice before >>drilling out lots of those 3/16" rivets. I
drilled out a total of 10 or 12... it was a *major* >>pain in the neck, and the
replacement rivets weren't much better than the ones I drilled out.
>> Anything that's "barely acceptable" is acceptable... leave it alone!
David Carter adds: The only flush rivets I've done were on vertical
stab spar last summer (when I had halted work on Horiz Stab due to an
unresolved issue) and I had about a 40% "bad" rate. I was shocked,
after having had such an "error-free experience" with the round head
rivets, where the cupped rivet set holds the set right in position on
the round head.
I use a pneumatic squeezer - the flush set seemed to just slide off to
the side as I squeezed - so final squeeze was no longer parallel to axis
of rivet - so lots of the rivets were squeezed with badly cocked
shop/formed heads.
I called Avery and he had me send the set rivet set back and he
machined it completely flat - I think there's normally a slight curve.
I haven't had occasion to use it since, but suspect it will help - Avery
is super good and knowledgeable.
signed
David Carter, RV-6 HS, just trimmed, drilled, and touchup primed my 404
ribs. Will rivet fwd spar on tomorrow and start working on skins;
Nederland, Texas (SE Tex Gulf coast)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by SERV05.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
| From: | dgm(at)slac.stanford.edu (Don McShurley) |
After spending the last 1 1/2 years only reading and learning from all the
builders the time has come to jump in and ask a question. Realizing that a
large amount of band width has been already been spent on the priming of
aluminum my question is how do you prep, prime and paint the stainless
steel fire wall? In my limited experance it seems to me that primer and
paint are stains and tend not to adhear well to stainless steel. Will a
etching primer work here and not chip off? I am most concerned about the
stainless aluminum interfaces and any electrolysis that could take place.
Thanks in advance.
Don McShurley S-51 fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
> Then > Todd Whelan wrote:
> Then > Gil Alexander wrote:
> > > >>< snip
> > > ALERT .. this is NOT true if you read the DuPont AIRCRAFT painting
> snip
> > Then why use their self-etching primer at all?
> > -snip-
> > Priming internal parts and priming for exterior painting seems to me to
> be two separate considerations. >snip > I don't think that internal priming
warrants
> such extensive procedures. However, there are exceptions. When I
> visited Van's facility a year ago last month, I talked to Ken about this
> very subject. He stated that even using Variprime, he strongly
> suggested to use an etching system on the spar components since they are
> what he considered critical to keep from corrosion.
> Listers, please comment. Dave Macintire RV-6 in Orlando Almost ready to start
my wing
David Carter adds: I've avoided commenting on Variprime posts up to
now. Variprime is self-etching, but what it isn't, is ... it's not a
barrier to moisture and contaminants that settle out of the air onto
interior surfaces at night during the cooling off time. When I first
started and began my "education" about primers and paints, I called
DuPont tech support folks who said, with no ambiguity, Variprime is
porous and not a suitable product to use alone, without a top coat of
something non-porous, for corrosion control on the inside.
Since I didn't like the time, expense, and weight of a two coat
internal corrosion protection system, I selected an epoxy zinc chromate
used in the commercial aircraft industry and apply a single thin coat.
David Carter, RV-6 Horizontal Stab, Nederland, Texas (SE Tex Gulf coast)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders in SE South Dakota |
If you ever get to Denver or thereabouts we have a great group of Rocky
Mountain RVators..
Next meeting at Jeff Co airport, hangar 32C , 1000 hours on 14 Feb 98.
hanagar 32C contains 3 RV-6s, all completed. I will probably fly my 6A
over from FTG for the event. If you get to the meeting, then we are
usually available at Front Range where my hangar mate is building a 6A
quick build.
D Walsh 303 756 6543
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine weight and flap reflex |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>I believe the specs that Lycoming provide with the counter weighted
>>IO-360 said that it is 50 pounds heavier than a parallel valve O-360
>with
>>the same accessories.
>Scott,
> The Lycoming specs are : IO360A3B6D at 330lbs. with the heavy
>prestolight starter , 60 amp alternator and stock "siamese"double mag.
>
>My interest is in finding the weight of my engine with Van's
>accessories.
>How much do you suggest I have reduced the weight by using the 7 1/2
>lb
>starter, 35 amp alternater and single Bendix mag?
I really don't have any idea. I hate to answer questions like that
unless I really know.
BTW, Lycoming told
>me
>the O360 A1A was 285 lbs "dry" with accessories and I wonder which
>ones
>they are --
I believe it is a weight with two mags, carb., fuel pump, vacuum pump
drive, governor drive and line, and light weight starter, but no
alternator (at least that is the way they supply them to Van's).
Someone at Lycoming should be able to tell you how the engine that weighs
285 is equipped.
This probably isn't much help but it sounds like you already plan to use
that engine, so go ahead an do what you can for weight reduction and then
just enjoy the airplane.
Let us know what you find out.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
it is hard to compare apples to apples without all the
>facts.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
my question is how do you prep, prime and paint the stainless
>steel fire wall? I am most concerned about
>the
>stainless aluminum interfaces and any electrolysis that could take
>place.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Don McShurley S-51 fuselage in the jig
>
>
I would just leave the firewall bare for the reasons you mentioned, and
it allows you to safely use solvents on the engine side for cleanup, and
there is no paint on the firewall to scratch off with tools while working
in the engine compartment.
Just prime all of the aluminum and/or steel parts that attach to it to
keep them insulated from each other.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com> |
>Realizing that a large amount of band width has been already been spent on
the priming of
>aluminum my question is how do you prep, prime and paint the stainless
>steel fire wall?
I was planning on leaving mine bare, and was under the impression that most
builders do just that.
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
installing tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Don McShurley wrote:
>
>
> After spending the last 1 1/2 years only reading and learning from all the
> builders the time has come to jump in and ask a question. Realizing that a
> large amount of band width has been already been spent on the priming of
> aluminum my question is how do you prep, prime and paint the stainless
> steel fire wall? In my limited experance it seems to me that primer and
> paint are stains and tend not to adhear well to stainless steel. Will a
> etching primer work here and not chip off? I am most concerned about the
> stainless aluminum interfaces and any electrolysis that could take place.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Don McShurley S-51 fuselage in the jig
> Don,
You don't need to paint or prime stainless. It is not subject to
corrosion but would look good if you polished it.
Have fun building.
Doug RV-6 Canopy frame is starting to look like something.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com> |
Don McShurley wrote:
>
>
> After spending the last 1 1/2 years only reading and learning from all the
> builders the time has come to jump in and ask a question. Realizing that a
> large amount of band width has been already been spent on the priming of
> aluminum my question is how do you prep, prime and paint the stainless
> steel fire wall? In my limited experance it seems to me that primer and
> paint are stains and tend not to adhear well to stainless steel. Will a
> etching primer work here and not chip off? I am most concerned about the
> stainless aluminum interfaces and any electrolysis that could take place.
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Don McShurley S-51 fuselage in the jig
>
typically we do not prime stainless steel as it does not corrode. after
many years 30 or so it might dull if left outside.rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com |
Thanks for that, what a great post. I'm quitting my job and going home to
squish rivets. Thanks for the shot in the arm. Congrats on the huge
accomplishment.
Eric Henson
Richard Steffens blissfully wrote:
>> I flew my RV6 for the first time this past Saturday (1/31) after four
years of building. <<<
Whole bunch of really good stuff clipped.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com> |
| Subject: | factory rv flight training |
Anyone wanting to get some rv flight training I will be taking the RV6
66RV on the road for three stops the week before sun and fun. The first
stop will be Grand Rapids Mich April 8,9,10 (apt is 3GM) and the contact
is John Gill at 616 776-0840. My second stop is at Hampton Rds Va April
12, 13, 14 (apt PVG) the contact is Dick Reynolds at 757 627 8743. Third
stop is at Dublin Ga April 16, 17, 18 (apt DBN)and the contact is Brent
Mayo at 912 275-4320 or you can reach me at 503 429-5103 between
0700am-0900am Pacific time
Mike Seager rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
>
> Richard Steffens blissfully wrote:
>
> >> I flew my RV6 for the first time this past Saturday (1/31) after four
> years of building. <<<
>
Your first flight post could not have come at a better time. Yesteday
was not a good buliding day for me. Screwed up a couple of parts and had
to re-order from Van's and generally got real discouraged. But reading
your post gave me the shot of encouragement that I need to keep on
working so that one day I can also post a first flight. Congratulations.
Thanks again
Fran Malczynski
RV6 (Wings)
Olcott, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rt Angle Oil Filter Adapter |
The filter relocation kits as shown in the Summit Racing catalog include an
adapter
(with inlet and outlet hose connections) that screws on to the engine where
the oil filter would normally be. It also includes a remote filter mount
that has ears on it for bolting to the firewall (or where ever you desire)
and has the corresponding inlet and outlet hose connections. Hoses connect
the two together. It appears that this set up would operate no different
than the stock system as far as bypassing the oil filter when it is clogged
or when the oil is cold as long as the correct filter is used. On engines
that do not have an oil filter your only option might be to connect into
the oil cooler lines. This would sure be cheaper than buying the oil filter
conversion kit that allows you to install a spin on oil filter. As far as
only filtering when the oil is hot, wouldn't this be better than not having
any filter at all? The cost is about $35.00 vs nearly $400.00 for the
filter
conversion kit.
Summit part number SUM-G4985 for a single filter (dual filters available)
Summit Racing 216-630-0200
Jerry Isler
RV4 #1070
----------
Scott McDaniels wrote:
> Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:50 AM
> Do what I and a lot of other builders have done.
>
> Get a remote spin on filter bracket from the performance automotive store
> and plum it in series with the oil cooler using hoses.
> If you look at the oil circuit diagram in the Lyc. overhaul man. in
> conjunction with looking at an accessory case and normally supplied spin
> on adapter you will see that the path that the oil takes is the same as
> if you plumb them in series with each other.
> You still use you screen housing so that you still have the function of
> the vernatherm but you remove the screen from it.
> The other thing that is a good idea is to use a CH48108 filter instead of
> the normal CH48110.
> The CH48108 has a bypass valve built in to replace the one that is built
> in to the normal spin on adapter (which now you wouldn't have).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Listers,
With all that talk about engine weights, I was wondering how much the
standard starter weighs. My O-320 was purchased new from Van's in May of
96. At that time, they were shipping the old "boat anchor" style starters.
Even though I tried to keep it light, I'd love to shave a few pounds off of
the empty weight by installing a light weight starter.
Second, what could I expect to get for my current starter that will have
about 100 hours by the time the change is made.
Thanks in advance.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
I just thought I'd pass this information along to those of you who are
beginning to wire your birds and using shielded cable. I have had three
wiring glitches the last of which was a dead right mag and all three
were attributed to the same problem.
During initial wiring, after removing the outer jacket from the ends of
shielded cable I simply pulled braided shielding back and installed my
crimp connectors on the conductor wire and shielding. After time,
vibration caused the shielding to "creep" back toward and inside the
crimp connector of the conductor and grounded it (not good). As I
mentioned the last instance grounded my right mag and it bacame non
functional, fortunately it was found during a ground run-up.
The Fix: after inspecting all wiring terminations (alot if you're using
both RMI units). I have begun using heat shrink tubing to secure and
insulate the braided shielding against contacting anything other that
what it's supposed to be secured to.
One last tip, when stripping these shielded wires, I have started using
a mag. glass to inspect the conductor insulation, its amazing how the
shield braiding can find its way into the smallest cut on conductor
insulation and eventually ground it.
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Startet Weights |
Lats summer I bought a 150 hour Prestolight for $225. I viewed this as
a very good deal. I think they are about $900 new. Everybody is swapping
them out for the lighter starters now. It seems to have depressed the
market some.
BTW, I have a 149 tooth Lyc. ring gear for sale. It's in excelent condition.
No wear on the teeth at all. Asking $200. They're about $400 new from Lyc.
Chris
>
>
> Listers,
>
>
> Second, what could I expect to get for my current starter that will have
> about 100 hours by the time the change is made.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Two RV3 kits for sale - $5200 |
While in Oregon last week, I called Jim Whitbeck, who is selling
two RV3 kits. His phone number is 541-496-0351, email address is
jdmachine(at)wizzards.net.
He's an A&P, located approximately 20 miles East of Roseberg (sp?)
Oregon. He bought these two kits from an IA in Arizona. The IA was
operating an aero school, and Jim believes these kits were used as
part of the instruction.
Jim bought the kits with the intention of finishing them to the point
where somebody could install their own engine. He hasn't had the time
to do any work on them, and now needs the room for his machine shop.
He believes that these parts where purchased over time, not all at
once.
This is what he has for sale:
Two wing kits. One is "half finished", the other "more than half
finished". The spar laminations are 1/8" thick, which I understand
means that these are pre-1984 wing kits. The flaps and ailerons have
been built.
Only the wing kits have had any construction done.
One complete tail kit.
One tail kit that is missing skins.
One canopy.
One cowling.
Two sets of wingtips.
No motor mounts, no landing gear.
He's asking $5200 for everything.
I was calling to get more information for Tom Benton, my neighbor here
at
Treasure Coast Airpark, and a repeat RV builder. Tom has since decided
to
concentrate on his 2nd RV6A rather than his 2nd RV3, so he's no longer
interested in the kits that Jim is selling. Please contact Jim if
you're
interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Startet Weights |
This seems sort of strange to me. I got a new 0-320 from Vans' in early '91
and it was one of the first bunch to use the Lycoming labeled light weight
starters. Didn't think that they had used the older style Prescolite, etc.
starters since then.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Listers,
>
>With all that talk about engine weights, I was wondering how much the
>standard starter weighs. My O-320 was purchased new from Van's in May of
>96. At that time, they were shipping the old "boat anchor" style starters.
>Even though I tried to keep it light, I'd love to shave a few pounds off of
>the empty weight by installing a light weight starter.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Starter Weights |
| From: | brucegreen(at)Juno.com (Bruce Green) |
The standard starter weighs about 18 lbs. If anyone is interested, I
have one that is brand new, that is for sale. It is an MZ4222 and is
new, not rebuilt.
Bruce Green
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | RV8/rudder/nutplates |
Hello,
Is it permissible to over drill the holes in the K-1000-6 plate nut to
accept a -5 rivet instead of the -4?
This particular plate nut is at the bottom of the spar at the intersection
of R410, R405PD and spar.
To others approaching the rudder skeleton, DON'T attach the bottom rib
until the VERY last as you'll have to remove it to get at the rivets on the
bottom of the R410 brace given the two bucking bar options you'll receive
from Avery. Also I would lay the skeleton against the skin before marking
and drilling the bottom rudder rib (I forget number) to the spar. I went
by the dimensions on the plans and was off by 1/16 with the skin. Enough
to require some trimming.
Going out on a limb here.... make you primary standard of what to do the
holes on the pre punched skins, not the dimensions in the plan. I keep
treating the dimensions on the plans as gospel and find myself close, but
rarely right on.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: where is John Hovan |
>--------------
>
>I have been trying to raise John Hovan for some time now but the server
>rv.austin.apple.com doesn.t respond. I'm presently building the wings on my
>rv-6 and have used to a great extent the builders guide for the wings that
>I got from Hovan's home page. I now want to get the fuselage guide but
>can't seem to get into John's home page. The addres that I'm using is :
>http://rv.austin.apple.com/jhovan/home.html. Can anyone help me??
>thanks Duane Dickson.
>ddickson(at)sisna.com
>--------------
The John Hovan web pages are now located at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan
John is no longer working at Apple. His new email address is
"hovan(at)flash.net". John is no longer on the RV-List, so you must
email him directly for input on his pages.
Matt Dralle
RV-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>I just thought I'd pass this information along to those of you who are
>beginning to wire your birds and using shielded cable. I have had three
>wiring glitches the last of which was a dead right mag and all three
>were attributed to the same problem.
>
>During initial wiring, after removing the outer jacket from the ends of
>shielded cable I simply pulled braided shielding back and installed my
>crimp connectors on the conductor wire and shielding. After time,
>vibration caused the shielding to "creep" back toward and inside the
>crimp connector of the conductor and grounded it (not good). As I
>mentioned the last instance grounded my right mag and it bacame non
>functional, fortunately it was found during a ground run-up.
Try this for keeping all the braided shield wires out of harming
ways . . .
(1) Put 1" piece of 3/16" heatshrink over end of wire to
be terminated.
(2) Remove outer insulation to expose shield braid approx 1"
from end of wire.
(3) Push shield braid back slightly so as to "bunch" it up a
bit right at the end of the outer insulation jacket.
(4) Bend braid and internal conductors over right at the end
of the outer jacket to make a "J" shape on end of wire.
(5) Use blunted pick to tease an opening into the side of the
shield braid exposing the wires within.
(6) Use the pick to get under the wires and pull them out through
the opening.
(7) Pull the shield braid back out straight and twist the
ends just slightly to take care of the "fuzzies"
at the end.
(8) Put piece of 3/16" heatshrink over shield braid leaving
approx 3/16" exposed. Shrink down. Install PIDG or
similar terminal on end of braid.
(8) Install PIDG or similar terminal on center conductor(s).
(9) Slide heat shrink from step (1) so that 1/3 of it's
length is past end of shielded wire's outer jacket
and shrink in place.
This technique prevents damage to center conductor insulation
since only standard strip-and-terminate operations are carried
out. "Fuzzies" from stray shield braid are corraled because there's
no attempt to "unbraid" or comb out the strands in an effort
to make the center conductor accesable. ALL conductors are
ultimately covered with insulation exposing only the portion
of the terminals necessary for connection.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ciswired.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Startet Weights |
On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Leslie B. Williams wrote:
>
> This seems sort of strange to me. I got a new 0-320 from Vans' in early '91
> and it was one of the first bunch to use the Lycoming labeled light weight
> starters. Didn't think that they had used the older style Prescolite, etc.
> starters since then.
They still ship both kinds. They ship the prestolite starter, unless told
otherwise, for certified installations that originally used the prestolie
starter. Otherwise, again for certified birds, you would need to recompute
the W&B when reinstalling the engine. Again, they WILL ship the light
weight starter if you request it but the default, for engines orginally
shipped with the heavy starter, is to get the heavy starter sent back.
I got a Lycoming with a prestolite starter from the factory, brand-new,
in 1994.
greg
greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GUY G & DONNA RECHT <guyrecht(at)kans.com> |
anyone care to compare the RV6 and the MustangII.
How about the quickbuild kits for each.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuselage/Wing assembly |
A question for those who have gone before.
Do I need to mate the wings to the fuselage while the fuselage is still in the
jig?
This will be difficult in my 16x20 shop.
Thanks in advance
Brian Eckstein
closing up the wings and shifting thoughts to fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim R. Stone" <Stonedog(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep?? |
David,
What is the name of the zinc Chromate you used? I'm about to pick a primer
and your words are strong and speak of long life for my metal.
Jim Stone
(Drilling Out Spar rivets for Hamon Rocket ribs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul A. Rosales" <rv6a(at)Juno.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Crankshaft - Final AD |
Now that the final AD requiring inspection of Lycoming crankshafts for
pitting/cracking (final rule targets only O-320/360s) is out, I am
curious to know if those of you who have received your new RV engines
from Lycoming have the crankshaft flange stamped 'PID' (painted inside
diameter). This 'PID' stamp exempts owners from the AD.
Details of the AD, for those who have not seen it, can be found at:
http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/1998/98-1-021.html
Paul Rosales
RV-6A N628PV panel in progress
Ready to order a new O-360!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul A. Rosales" <rv6a(at)Juno.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming Crankshaft - Final AD |
Regarding the AD, I forgot to include the AD affects those of you with
O-320/360 AND fixed pitch props. Constant 'speeders' rest easy.
Paul Rosales
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage/Wing assembly |
Brian,
Are you building a -6, 6A or -4?
If you're building a 6, there is no need to mate the wings until you're
ready to work on flap and aileron connection.
If you're working on a -6A, you'll have to install the wings while the
fulelage is still in the jig to drill the gear attachment weldments. You
can move the jig/fuselage out in the driveway to do that.
Can't comment on the -4.
Bob
San Antonio
RV-6 Cowling
----------
> From: Brian Eckstein <eckstein@net-link.net>
>
> Do I need to mate the wings to the fuselage while the fuselage is still
in the jig?
>
> This will be difficult in my 16x20 shop.
> closing up the wings and shifting thoughts to fuselage
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paulr(at)colorado.cirrus.com (Paul Romano) |
Anyone out there interested in selling a (not started) RV4
wing kit? Want a complete kit, possibly partially started.
Preferrably in the Colorado area.
e-mail me off list.
thanks
Paul
(paulr(at)colorado.cirrus.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Startet Weights |
I was thinking about what Van's sells. Their accessories catalog states
that the engines they sell come with the lightweight starter. Of course
they will order the engine and accessories one wants, but I think that you
would normally have to specify the heavier starter and pay whatever the
additional cost might be.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Leslie B. Williams wrote:
>
>>
>> This seems sort of strange to me. I got a new 0-320 from Vans' in early
'91
>> and it was one of the first bunch to use the Lycoming labeled light
weight
>> starters. Didn't think that they had used the older style Prescolite,
etc.
>> starters since then.
>
>They still ship both kinds. They ship the prestolite starter, unless told
>otherwise, for certified installations that originally used the prestolie
>starter. Otherwise, again for certified birds, you would need to recompute
>the W&B when reinstalling the engine. Again, they WILL ship the light
>weight starter if you request it but the default, for engines orginally
>shipped with the heavy starter, is to get the heavy starter sent back.
>
>I got a Lycoming with a prestolite starter from the factory, brand-new,
>in 1994.
>
>greg
>
>greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
Somewhere on the prints it shows to place about a 1/8" wedge between the
longeron and the fixture at the F604 bulkhead. I think this is suppose to
give the longeron a slight twist when you clamp it to the fixture.
Joe/fuselage
----------
> From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
> To: RV Mailing list
> Subject: RV-List: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones)
> Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 9:35 PM
>
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> Today I spent all day riveting all my bulkheads together and mounting
> the firewall to the jig. After careful measuring the firewall actually
> is positioned were I wanted it. Pretty amazing (at least I think so)
>
> Anyway, the question. With the help of my trusty helper (my wife) we
> bent the top longerons as described in the manual and in Frank J's
> supplement. After laying them on the jig and positioning them for width
> at each station they fit great except at the firewall weldments. At the
> firewall the weldments are cocked so that the longerons will be twisted
> from the vertical plane. My longerons are vertical at this stage. Did I
> do something wrong or should I just twist them and make them fit.? I
> just sort of figured that once the longerons were bent they would fall
> into place.
>
>
> Gary Zilik
> RV-6A s/n 22993
>
> Jigging the fuselage.....
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
. Has anyone tried to
>reflex their flaps a couple degrees for cruise flight?
The flap botom skin overlaps the fuselage by three quarters of a inch or so
to cover the hole where the flap rod comes through. To reflex the flap this
overlap of skin would have to be cut off leaving an ugly hole. Could be done
but I am not sure it would be worth the hassle, unless of course you are one
of those `need for more speed' guys...:-)
Marc DeGirolamo
-4 #3289
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Mehrhoff" <99789978(at)email.msn.com> |
Is there an advantage of using strobes with power supplies in each wing?
Will there be more radio interference if I use wingtip antenna with strobe
power supply in tip?
RV-8 finish kit here.
Stan Mehrhoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Lervold <RLervold(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV8/rudder/nutplates |
Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To others approaching the rudder skeleton, DON'T attach the bottom rib
until the VERY last as you'll have to remove it to get at the rivets on the
bottom of the R410 brace given the two bucking bar options you'll receive
from Avery.<
Or just use pop rivets to attach all three surfaces of the R-410. None of
them are exposed, the entire assembly is covered up by the rudder bottom
cap. Besides, pop rivets are supposedly stronger than solid AN rivets.
Randy Lervold
-8 #80500, left elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage/Wing assembly |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>Do I need to mate the wings to the fuselage while the fuselage is
>still in the jig?
>This will be difficult in my 16x20 shop.
The procedure is slightly different depending on which model you are
building, but none of them need to be mated while still in the jig. If
you are building a 6A you will need to mate the wings before turning the
fuselage upright and finishing the top because the main gear weldments
need to be located and drilled, and they have to be drilled in assembly
with the main spar. I suppose this could be done while still in the jig,
but it is far easier to support it at a reasonable height on sawhorses so
you can get underneath and "inside" the cockpit area.
Ed Bundy RV6A - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)juno.com - Eagle, ID
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Here are a couple of questions that I would like to pose to those of you
who are flying IFR with your RVs:
What minimum equipment did the DAR require and what was involved in
receiving IFR certification?
Is biannual recertification of the pitot system required?
Even though I am still early in my project, I am trying to decide
whether or not to make the RV6 IFR capable. The amount of stuff required
to be loaded into the panel will play into the decision.
Thanks in advance for your replies!
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage/Wing assembly |
Sorry, I'm building a 6A
Brian Eckstein
----------
>
> Brian,
>
> Are you building a -6, 6A or -4?
>
----------
> > From: Brian Eckstein <eckstein@net-link.net>
> >
> > Do I need to mate the wings to the fuselage while the fuselage is still
> in the jig?
> >
> > This will be difficult in my 16x20 shop.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
Hi Stan;
I can't help you with the strobe question, though I will eventually have to
deal with that. I am just finishing the left wing and tank on my RV-8 #544,
and was wondering if you could tell all of us here on the list a little bit
about the finish kit. I heard the canopy skirt is composite? How about the
cowling, is it the new epoxy honeycomb? Does the canopy look like it is going
to go together fairly easily? I am impressed so far by the tail and wing kit.
My empennage kit went to together in 2 weeks, and after 4 days I am getting
ready to close up the left wing. There are quite a few small mistakes I have
found, mostly in the manual and plans, not the product itself. But by using
common sense, they can be worked thru. Your observation (and others) of the
finish kit is valued by the rest of us coming behind you.
Regards, Von Alexander
Independence, Or.
RV-8 #544
RV-4 N107RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
| Subject: | RV8/rudder/nutplates |
>> Besides, pop rivets are supposedly stronger than solid AN rivets.
>>Randy Lervold
>>-8 #80500, left elevator
Randy:
Not so. The shear strength of most pop rivets (some Cherry Max being
an exception) are considerably less than their AN equivalents.
Don't use them in structural applications without consulting with
Vans.
George
-8 #80006
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Weights |
<< With all that talk about engine weights, I was wondering how much the
standard starter weighs. My O-320 was purchased new from Van's in May of
96. At that time, they were shipping the old "boat anchor" style starters.
Even though I tried to keep it light, I'd love to shave a few pounds off of
the empty weight by installing a light weight starter.
Second, what could I expect to get for my current starter that will have
about 100 hours by the time the change is made. >>
My recollection is that the standard ESI starter that came with my O-360-A1A
new from Van's was about 18 lbs and the Sky-Tec I had Lycoming swap me for the
ESI weighed about 8 lbs. Just a little paperwork, no money (straight across
swap prior to engine start) and voila, 10 lbs off the engine weight. Too bad
you ran yours.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Weights |
>With all that talk about engine weights, I was wondering how much the
>standard starter weighs. My O-320 was purchased new from Van's in May of
>96. At that time, they were shipping the old "boat anchor" style starters.
>Even though I tried to keep it light, I'd love to shave a few pounds off of
>the empty weight by installing a light weight starter.
>
>Second, what could I expect to get for my current starter that will have
>about 100 hours by the time the change is made.
>Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
I have weighed the Prestolite MZ4218 starter Lycoming shipped with my
O-320E2G, and it weighs 16-7/8#. There appear to be some that weigh more
since some of the starter replacements are advertised as "saving 10#", and
none that I've seen are less than 8#.
One of the starter replacements used to offer $100 trade in on your old
Prestolite. That seems very low, and is probably only core value. I bet
you'll have a hard time getting more than B&C or Sky-Tec want for their
replacements.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep??: Other primers |
> Jim Stone
David responds:
The brand of epoxy zinc chromate primer I use is Pratt & Lambert
(recently bought by Sherwin-Williams, but still sold and labeled as
Pratt & Lambert. The Sherwin-Williams tech support office for Pratt &
Lambert products is in Wichita, Kansas, 1-888-888-5593, Ext 130 Sally.
I buy from Sherwin-Williams store in San Antonio, TX: 4243 Industrial
Center Blvd, San Antonio, TX 78217, teleph 210-654-1481. They will ship
to you. (have to buy from dealer, not factory, but factory - above -
will tell you the closest dealer.)
Cost me, in Spring of 1997, $88.50 plus shipping for a "kit" of 1 gal of
epoxy (zinc) chromate corrosion protective primer #484-950 and 1 gal of
#120-802 (catalyst or "adduct", a clear liquid). These two are mixed
1:1 and let stand for 30 minutes before spraying (or touching up
scratches or newly cut edges with a sponge rubber "paint pop").
I also bought a gallon of thinner/cleaner #110-588 (or -566) for
$24.50 plus shipping which I use to clean my paint gun and clean up
stuff. Takes a POWERFUL solvent to cut this stuff!
I went to pharmacy/drug store and bought 3 syringes of 50 or
60cc each, and use one for each of the three items above. Makes it easy
to mix small batches without having to pour out of the cans, which would
be a major messy chore. When I painted my first batch of horizontal
stabilizer spar & flanges, plus the elevator hinges, I only mixed about
100 or 200 cc's of product, about 1/3 of a paint gun cup. Using an HVLP
gun this stuff goes a long way.
If you can figure out how to get into the rv-list archives, try to pull
up my 2 posts on "internal corrosion protection" 12 & 13 Jan 1998. If
not, e-mail me off line and I'll copy them to you.
About zinc chromate being the primer of choice, also check the rv-list
archive for 16 Jan 98 re Akzo Primer (a brand name for another zinc
chromate product). Michael J. Robbins tells of its use by Boeing
Aircraft in Seattle, Washington. It's now been bought by Dexter
Aerospace, costs $86 for a 2 gallon kit - sounds just like the Pratt &
Lambert - within $2 of being same price.
Aircraft Spruce, a builder supplier, sells a 2 gallon zinc
chromate kit for $100, same 2 gallon kit.
I've been on the phone while typing this and found the Dexter/Akzo HQ:
847-623-4200. You can call them and Sherwin-Williams (Pratt & Lambert)
for the dealers nearest you.
Happy building.
David Carter, RV-6 empennage, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Startet Weights |
Listers,
My experience with this starter situation is that if you just call
Van's they will exchange your old starter with the new lightweight.
I bought a O-360 september "96 and they made the change then.
I was told when I ordered the engine that it would come with the new
starter but when I open the box "Voila" the Prestolite. Some guys keep
them for weight and balance conditions if there tail heavy.
Good Luck
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
joseph.wiza wrote:
> Somewhere on the prints it shows to place about a 1/8" wedge between the
> longeron and the fixture at the F604 bulkhead. I think this is suppose to
> give the longeron a slight twist when you clamp it to the fixture.
Joe, I think this longeron tilt you mention is a hangover from the RV-4
and should not apply to the -6/6A. My longeron is flat on the jig until
it reaches for the firewall weldments.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
-6A Too cold to work on cowl today at 40 degrees
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage/Wing assembly |
<19980205.161115.11822.1.ebundy(at)juno.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Startet Weights |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Listers,
>
>With all that talk about engine weights, I was wondering how much the
>standard starter weighs. My O-320 was purchased new from Van's in May
>of
>96. At that time, they were shipping the old "boat anchor" style
>starters.
>Even though I tried to keep it light, I'd love to shave a few pounds
>off of
>the empty weight by installing a light weight starter.
>
Are you using a fixed pitch prop or a constant speed?
Weight reduction is a good thing but with a fixed pitch prop. (especially
wood) leaving on a heavy starter to have a little more weight way up
front (which is the best place to have extra weight if you must) helps
with the baggage loading / C.G. control.
Some RV's (particularly RV-4's) are limited by the empty C.G. being
almost at the mid range point which then just moves even further aft
because of loading. This problem is usually with a wood prop but also
can be somewhat an issue with a fixed metal prop.
It's not an issue with a constant speed.
If you are using a constant speed then go for the weight reduction.
If not, then consider just leaving it to help with the baggage
capacity/C.G.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8/rudder/nutplates |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>To others approaching the rudder skeleton, DON'T attach the bottom
>rib
>until the VERY last as you'll have to remove it to get at the rivets
>on the
>bottom of the R410 brace given the two bucking bar options you'll
>receive
>from Avery.<
>
>
>Or just use pop rivets to attach all three surfaces of the R-410. None
>of
>them are exposed, the entire assembly is covered up by the rudder
>bottom
>cap.
Besides, pop rivets are supposedly stronger than solid AN rivets.
Maybe, but not necessarily. It depends on which blind (pop) rivet you
are talking about and which AN rivet you are comparing it to.
I don't remember for certain but I think an AN470AD4-X is good for about
280 lbs. in shear but an AN470AD3-X is down to something like only 160
lbs. So you can't just substitute rivets with out knowing what the
actual strength is of the replacement rivet.
RV kits are supplied with as many as 7 or 8 different types of blind
rivets. Some are quite strong (like the monel steel). Some are much less
so (like the AACQ which are all alum. with much lower pull-up forces for
use on canopies). Some are kind of middle of the road (like the CS4-4
and the LP4-3).
Builders should use caution substituting fasteners unless you know that
the are an approved replacement ( such as the MK-319 being used in place
of AN426AD3-X rivets).
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garrett V. Smith" <GARRETTSMITH(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Listers:
Just a few comments on IFR RV's.
Before we spend piles of money on avionics and instruments to make our
homebuilt aircraft IFR capable it may be prudent
to think long and hard about the actual type of flying you intend to do
with your aircraft. Actual IFR flying IS different than what Van
designed the RV for, picture yourself in your aircraft at night in icing
conditions over inhospitable terrain. There is no doubt that you can spend
a truckload of money to equip your RV with fancy stuff and that you will
have a nice panel that looks really functional,
but IFR certification goes a little deeper than that.
Heated pitot tubes and static ports.
Heated fuel vents.
Heated windshield.
Prop deice.
Wing deice, inflatable boots on the wing and tail, or better yet, a hot
wing.
Ok, ok, I'm being a little sarcastic, I apologize.
You have your IFR panel, now go back to a night , IFR cross country and
throw in some icing conditions over terrain that you can't land on (which
is pretty much everything that isn't a lighted runway). The prop is
unbalanced because of the ice on it, the engine
is shaking like mad, you can't see because of the ice on the wind screen
and your airplane is not able to maintain altitude because you have a load
of airframe ice...
Far fetched scenario? It has happened and will happen again.
I don't mean to patronize or offend anyone who has a full panel or wants
one, it's your airplane and the avionics people will
love you for it, just be careful about flying an aircraft that is not
'really' IFR equipped into IFR conditions.
Just my 2 cents worth.
My RV is going to be day VFR only, I fly IFR for a living and it 'is' work
some times.
Have a good day,
Garrett Smith
Calgary, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Is there an advantage of using strobes with power supplies in each wing?
Will there be more radio interference if I use wingtip antenna with strobe
power supply in tip? >>
Stan-
I like the idea of the synchronized (not alternating) flashes at full energy
and it is easier to run 12V power to the wing tip mounted p/s and a short
shielded run to each head. That's why I went with three separate supplies
(both wings and combo tail) with the sync line connecting all. I'm lit up
like a Christmas tree, what with the RMD tip lights and all. Being visible is
good.
The interference in my experience with the Whelens comes from proximity to the
strobe head and bundling of wires with the high tension line over a
considerable distance, not radiating from the power supplies (assuming proper
grounding and wiring).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to use alumiprep??: Other primers |
David,
... one point for reference. It's no longer ZINC chromate in these
epoxy paints (the first postings confused me, since the zinc chromates
still available are not epoxies) due to health hazards (lung cancer?).
The epoxy paints are all STRONTIUM CHROMATE, so use this term to not
confuse the paint salesmen/technical support folks.
An RV-list archive search on "23377" (for MIL-P-23377D) will give
you a lot of information. The MacDonald-Douglas (now Boeing) spec. paint
that A/C Spruce sells, and an equivalent paint to the original Boeing spec.
made by Courtaulds, are commercial "designer" equivalents to this Mil-Spec,
and are much easier to use than the full Mil-Spec. paint. This epoxy is
the easiest paint I have ever sprayed.
.... Gil (use the right ingredient ...:^) Alexander
>
David, What is the name of the zinc Chromate you used? I'm about to pick a
primer and your words are strong and speak of long life for my metal.
>> Jim Stone
>
>David responds:
>The brand of epoxy zinc chromate primer I use is Pratt & Lambert
>(recently bought by Sherwin-Williams, but still sold and labeled as
>Pratt & Lambert. The Sherwin-Williams tech support office for Pratt &
>Lambert products is in Wichita, Kansas, 1-888-888-5593, Ext 130 Sally.
>
*** lots snipped ***
>
>Cost me, in Spring of 1997, $88.50 plus shipping for a "kit" of 1 gal of
>epoxy (zinc) chromate corrosion protective primer #484-950 and 1 gal of
>#120-802 (catalyst or "adduct", a clear liquid). These two are mixed
>
>If you can figure out how to get into the rv-list archives, try to pull
>up my 2 posts on "internal corrosion protection" 12 & 13 Jan 1998. If
>not, e-mail me off line and I'll copy them to you.
>
>About zinc chromate being the primer of choice, also check the rv-list
>archive for 16 Jan 98 re Akzo Primer (a brand name for another zinc
>chromate product). Michael J. Robbins tells of its use by Boeing
>Aircraft in Seattle, Washington. It's now been bought by Dexter
>Aerospace, costs $86 for a 2 gallon kit - sounds just like the Pratt &
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wash Primers |
It has been well documented that some primers such as Variprime require a
topcoat because they are not self-sealing.
But I have some more information on wash primers that I have not seen posted.
This is from the A&P Airframe Textbook (paraphrased):
It is necessary to have sufficient moisture in the air to properly convert the
acid into the phosphate film. Proper conversion requires nine-hundredths of a
pound of water per pound of dry air during application of the primer. To
figure this, you need a wet bulb and a dry bulb thermometer and a relative
humidity chart. If the crossing points are between 0.05 and 0.09 you may add
one ounce of distilled water per gallon of thinner. If below 0.05 you may add
up to two ounces of water per gallon of primer. If there is not enough water
in the air, the acid will not convert and will become trapped against the
metal. Later, moisture from a heavy dew can penetrate the surface and unite
with the free acid converting it. This process will lift the primer and paint
from the surface. If this occurs shortly after application of the primer you
can sit the airplane in the sun and the conversion may become complete
allowing the blisters to go down.
This is a good reason for me to stay with the acid etch followed by epoxy
primer.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com> |
Do any of the listers have any news on the Lycoming factory strike. I
think it has been on for 4 or 5 months. Is Lycoming still delivering
engines? Maybe Van should look at Continental engines for his planes. (I
think I know where I could find a good O300).
Rich Zeidman
waiting for wing kit
should be put on the opposite side. To what extent =
should this plate be riveted to the firewall around its perimeter. Any =
chance it functions if it is just attached by the hardware holding the =
mounted part?
thanks,
Rick Solana, RV-6a 804RS
engine on, instrument panel in
Richmond, VA
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD32CD.95FFDDA0
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Dumb question: When thiings =
are hung on=20
the firewall that have some weight, (like starter solenoids, oil=20
coolers,gascolators), I assume a reinforcing plate should be put on the =
opposite=20
side. To what extent should this plate be riveted to the firewall =
around=20
its perimeter. Any chance it =
functions=20
if it is just attached by the hardware holding the mounted =
part?
thanks,
Rick Solana, RV-6a =
804RS
engine on, instrument panel =
in
Richmond, =
VA
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BD32CD.95FFDDA0--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave and/or Diane Irwin" <dirwin(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A checkout this August |
Hi Mike
I am planning on being in Portland in mid-August (8-12) this year and would
like o get a checkout on a RV-6A. Is it too early to 'book' time with for
for this? We are building a -6A with 150hp O-320 - very standard stuff -
and hope to fly early next year. I have owned a Grumman Yankee for the last
9 years and have almost 800 hours in it. Please let me know if you are
available during the upcoming August. Thanks.
Dave Irwin
London, Ontario, Canada
519 - 663-1994 (W)
519 - 433-2327 (W)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen) |
Sam,
My RV-6A, N925RV, is IFR certified. The photo on your
web site shows the panel. While I did install an ADF, I did
it to get my ticket, not because I thought that I needed it.
(Although, it has allowed me to make approaches into
airports I wouldn't have been able to get into without it...)
The DAR did not require and specific instrumentations,
but did require the Pito Static and Transponder certification
prior to final signoff on the air worthiness and limitations
sheet. That bi-annual recertification is necessary, just as
it is with certified crafts.
If you want to fly IFR, be sure that your limitations sheet
has a line that states "Day/Night VFR and IFR operation
is authorized".......
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Here are a couple of questions that I would like to pose to those of you
>who are flying IFR with your RVs:
>
>What minimum equipment did the DAR require and what was involved in
>receiving IFR certification?
>
>Is biannual recertification of the pitot system required?
>
>Even though I am still early in my project, I am trying to decide
>whether or not to make the RV6 IFR capable. The amount of stuff
>required
>to be loaded into the panel will play into the decision.
>
>Thanks in advance for your replies!
>
>Sam Buchanan
>sbuc(at)traveller.com
>"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
n your aircraft at night in icing
>conditions over inhospitable terrain. There is no doubt that you can
spend
>a truckload of money to equip your RV with fancy stuff and that you will
>have a nice panel that looks really functional,
>but IFR certification goes a little deeper than that.
>
>Heated pitot tubes and static ports.
>Heated fuel vents.
>Heated windshield.
>Prop deice.
>Wing deice, inflatable boots on the wing and tail, or better yet, a hot
>wing.
>
>Ok, ok, I'm being a little sarcastic, I apologize.
>
>You have your IFR panel, now go back to a night , IFR cross country and
>throw in some icing conditions over terrain that you can't land on
(which
>is pretty much everything that isn't a lighted runway). The prop is
>unbalanced because of the ice on it, the engine
>is shaking like mad, you can't see because of the ice on the wind screen
>and your airplane is not able to maintain altitude because you have a
load
>of airframe ice...
>
>Far fetched scenario? It has happened and will happen again.
>
>I don't mean to patronize or offend anyone who has a full panel or wants
>one, it's your airplane and the avionics people will
>love you for it, just be careful about flying an aircraft that is not
>'really' IFR equipped into IFR conditions.
>
>Just my 2 cents worth.
>
>My RV is going to be day VFR only, I fly IFR for a living and it 'is'
work
>some times.
>
>Have a good day,
>
>Garrett Smith
>Calgary, Canada
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV=6A Longerons (the long ones) |
>
> Joe, I think this longeron tilt you mention is a hangover from the RV-4
> and should not apply to the -6/6A. My longeron is flat on the jig until
> it reaches for the firewall weldments.
Yes, and I didn't have to do it on my -4 either.
Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
I am planning an IFR RV6A. I agree with Garrett about the icing and
stuff.
However, IFR is a term that can mean a lot of things. I am planning an
IFR RV6 because its damned hard to fly VFR on top without one.
I want to have an ILS in mine just to keep up my proficiency. I don't
plan on shooting approaches to 300 and though. I want IFR to maintain
my IFR currency and because I fly a lot of cross country and if I want
to punch a hole in a cloud now and then, I want to be legal to do it.
Now icing, that is a different story. I don't plan to fly into any icing
conditions. Even so this has happened to me on occasions and as long as
you know what to do, you can live to tell the tale.
Anyone up for an IFR trip to New York this weekend from ROA???
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: Garrett V. Smith [SMTP:GARRETTSMITH(at)compuserve.com]
Sent: Friday, February 06, 1998 2:36 AM
To: INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: IFR RVs
Hi Listers:
Just a few comments on IFR RV's.
Before we spend piles of money on avionics and instruments to
make our
homebuilt aircraft IFR capable it may be prudent
to think long and hard about the actual type of flying you
intend to do
with your aircraft. Actual IFR flying IS different than what Van
designed the RV for, picture yourself in your aircraft at night
in icing
conditions over inhospitable terrain. There is no doubt that you
can spend
a truckload of money to equip your RV with fancy stuff and that
you will
have a nice panel that looks really functional,
but IFR certification goes a little deeper than that.
Heated pitot tubes and static ports.
Heated fuel vents.
Heated windshield.
Prop deice.
Wing deice, inflatable boots on the wing and tail, or better
yet, a hot
wing.
Ok, ok, I'm being a little sarcastic, I apologize.
You have your IFR panel, now go back to a night , IFR cross
country and
throw in some icing conditions over terrain that you can't land
on (which
is pretty much everything that isn't a lighted runway). The prop
is
unbalanced because of the ice on it, the engine
is shaking like mad, you can't see because of the ice on the
wind screen
and your airplane is not able to maintain altitude because you
have a load
of airframe ice...
Far fetched scenario? It has happened and will happen again.
I don't mean to patronize or offend anyone who has a full panel
or wants
one, it's your airplane and the avionics people will
love you for it, just be careful about flying an aircraft that
is not
'really' IFR equipped into IFR conditions.
Just my 2 cents worth.
My RV is going to be day VFR only, I fly IFR for a living and it
'is' work
some times.
Have a good day,
Garrett Smith
Calgary, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8/rudder/nutplates |
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
>
> >>To others approaching the rudder skeleton, DON'T attach the bottom
> >rib
> >until the VERY last as you'll have to remove it to get at the rivets
> >on the
> >bottom of the R410 brace given the two bucking bar options you'll
> >receive
> >from Avery.<
> >
> >
> >Or just use pop rivets to attach all three surfaces of the R-410. None
> >of
> >them are exposed, the entire assembly is covered up by the rudder
> >bottom
> >cap.
>
> Besides, pop rivets are supposedly stronger than solid AN rivets.
>
> Maybe, but not necessarily. It depends on which blind (pop) rivet you
> are talking about and which AN rivet you are comparing it to.
>
> I don't remember for certain but I think an AN470AD4-X is good for about
> 280 lbs. in shear but an AN470AD3-X is down to something like only 160
> lbs. So you can't just substitute rivets with out knowing what the
> actual strength is of the replacement rivet.
>
> RV kits are supplied with as many as 7 or 8 different types of blind
> rivets. Some are quite strong (like the monel steel). Some are much less
> so (like the AACQ which are all alum. with much lower pull-up forces for
> use on canopies). Some are kind of middle of the road (like the CS4-4
> and the LP4-3).
>
> Builders should use caution substituting fasteners unless you know that
> the are an approved replacement ( such as the MK-319 being used in place
> of AN426AD3-X rivets).
Scott,
Some of us newer builders would like a description of these different pop-rivets
with their corresponding part
number. It sometimes can be confusing to really know which rivet is which. Can
you help us out? Thanks.
Those pesky lower rivets at the bottom of the rudder gave me quite a brainstorming
session figuring out just
how to buck them with a bucking bar. I finally made a bar out of 1x1x6 solid steel
with one side machined off
at about 15 degree angle. I slid the bar in the hole between th rudder horn & the
brace that joins to the
rudder bar and held it in place with rubber bands on each end of the rudder bar.
Now insert a rivet and push
the rivet into place with the rivet set/gun assembly and displace the bucking bar
against the tension of the
rubber bands. Pull the trigger and set the rivet. Perfect on all four rivets the
first time and the proper
solid rivet too. The solution was so simple that I had over looked it for months.
Hope this helps.
Doug - RV-6 Still deburring, priming, riveting, and having FUN!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Peterson <paul.peterson(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Wavey elevator leading edge. |
Hello,
I'm finishing up the right elevator for my RV-8 and am afraid I may have
stressed the edge of the skin that overlaps the other when rolled over
to form the leading edge. I used the edge rolling tool from Avery to
give the edge a slight bend to create a smooth transition, however, it
is evident that I put too much tool pressure to the edge as the skin now
has several 'waves' that I can't seem to flatten out when rivitting.
Beside replacing the skin :-( what other choices do I have? Could I
simply snip the waves in half and put additional rivits on each side of
the slices. I think this would contour the edges well enough, however,
I'm concerned about any loss in structural integrity.
Any help would be appreciated.
Paul Peterson
paul.peterson(at)ibm.net
RV-8 finishing tail - wings are on order.
uld
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
Hi all,
I keep seeing statements saying that Veriprime isn't self sealing and needs
a top coat. What does this say for the benefit of using Veriprime without a
top coat? I'm under the impression that many people (including myself) do
this. I'm also under the impression that Veriprime is high on the approved
primer list from Van's, with no caveat about needing a top coat. Naturally,
the exterior surfaces will get top coated, but I have no plans to top coat
the interior surfaces.
I guess my question is: Are you saying that Veriprime is "no better than
not priming at all", or "better than not priming, but not as good as other
primers"? I've gotta admit, I consider ANY primer on the alclad stuff to be
overkill, but I'm doing it anyway.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
SlingShot SS-003, N8754K
RV-8 empenage
rad(at)pen.net
http://www.pen.net/~rad/
u have a load
>of airframe ice...
>
>Far fetched scenario? It has happened and will happen again.
>
IMHO IFR certification does not mean one needs to fly in icing conditions
at night. My own RV-6 will be IFR certified primarily for those very
brief and easy punch ups or downs through cloud layers. That one
ability, for me, immeasurably increases the utility of an airplane. I
have found my infrequent IFR flights in my old '57 Pacer with no heated
pitot or other antiice equipment and no glideslope receiver to be easy
and enjoyable. Sure one can get in trouble if you are not careful.
>I don't mean to patronize or offend anyone who has a full panel or wants
>one, it's your airplane and the avionics people will
>love you for it, just be careful about flying an aircraft that is not
>'really' IFR equipped into IFR conditions.
>
>Just my 2 cents worth.
>
>My RV is going to be day VFR only, I fly IFR for a living and it 'is' work
>some times.
>
>Have a good day,
>
>Garrett Smith
>Calgary, Canada
>
In answer to the original poster. The nav equipment needed is equipment
appropriate to the flight being made. One can fly a lot of IFR with a
single vor receiver although some sort of backup would be very prudent.
You also need the normal gyros and a clock and a transponder.
Static certification is required by an approved shop or "the
manufacturer." I feel competent to do those checks and intend to do so
as "the manufacturer." However I don't intend to call attention to the
fact I am doing so.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Tip-Up Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
The following reply to my request for info on equipping an RV for legal
IFR operation reveals the need for some clarification as to the type of
IFR I am considering for my RV6.
Garrett V. Smith wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers:
>
> Just a few comments on IFR RV's.
>
> Before we spend piles of money on avionics and instruments to make our
> homebuilt aircraft IFR capable it may be prudent
> to think long and hard about the actual type of flying you intend to do
> with your aircraft. Actual IFR flying IS different than what Van
> designed the RV for, picture yourself in your aircraft at night in icing
> conditions over inhospitable terrain.
Whoa! The above scenario is not just IFR, it is STOOPID! Sorry, but I
can't picture myself in the above situation. To many personal
limitations have been violated to allow MY RV6 to enter a situation as
described.
The IFR ops I am considering (yes, I am IFR-rated) are what we sometimes
refer to as "light IFR". I enjoy filing an IFR flight plan on
cross-country trips even when the weather is CAVU. Being in the ATC
system is reassuring in that somebody knows where I am at all times. I
am also relieved from having to take full responsibility of avoiding
restricted and controlled airspace. Obstacle clearance is assured, and
if weather conditions begin to deteriorate, or if it becomes necessary
to penetrate a cloud layer, the full force of the ATC system can be
called upon for assistance.
> There is no doubt that you can spend
> a truckload of money to equip your RV with fancy stuff and that you will
> have a nice panel that looks really functional,
> but IFR certification goes a little deeper than that.
Precisely. That is why I want to hear from RV pilots who HAVE gone
through the IFR certification process.....
> Heated pitot tubes and static ports.
> Heated fuel vents.
> Heated windshield.
> Prop deice.
> Wing deice, inflatable boots on the wing and tail, or better yet, a hot
> wing.
>
> Ok, ok, I'm being a little sarcastic, I apologize.
Apology accepted
> You have your IFR panel, now go back to a night , IFR cross country and
> throw in some icing conditions over terrain that you can't land on (which
> is pretty much everything that isn't a lighted runway). The prop is
> unbalanced because of the ice on it, the engine
> is shaking like mad, you can't see because of the ice on the wind screen
> and your airplane is not able to maintain altitude because you have a load
> of airframe ice...
> Far fetched scenario? It has happened and will happen again.
I have already addressed that issue.
> I don't mean to patronize or offend anyone who has a full panel or wants
> one, it's your airplane and the avionics people will
> love you for it, just be careful about flying an aircraft that is not
> 'really' IFR equipped into IFR conditions.
Be careful about flying ANY airplane into IFR conditions!
> Just my 2 cents worth.
>
> My RV is going to be day VFR only, I fly IFR for a living and it 'is' work
> some times.
I have no problems with VFR-only RVs, and mine may very well end up that
way. However, the capability to punch through the low cloud layer and
get to breakfast while the pancakes are still hot is a nice alternative.
Sam Buchanan (still looking for answers....)
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gerald Gaulden" <Gerald_Gaulden(at)ccgate.ueci.com> |
I have a manual titled 16 Years of the RVator, published 6/94. The
introduction includes the statement "This manual will be updated from
current issues of the RVator every two years". Does anyone have
information on who to contact for an updated version of this manual?
The telephone number listed in my '94 issue is no longer in service.
Thanks.
gerald_gaulden(at)rec.raytheon.com
or
rv-6(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage/Wing assembly: How read "Refs 1 2 3"? |
<19980205.161115.11822.1.ebundy(at)juno.com> <19980112.160335.2830.2.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
> RV-List message posted by: smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) . . . had
3 References 1 2 3 as last line of header of e-mail. The ref numbers were highlighted
blue meaning they were "links".
I use Netscape Navigator. When I clicked on the blue highlighted ref
numbers, a "Netscape" message popped up saying "The given message ID
doesn't exist in the folder". I note on the bottom status line that
there is a different URL for each of the msg. Do we just copy those
down and then use the internet browser to go read the refs?
Two other postings to rv-list today also had references. I'd never
noticed these things on previous postings so this is my first experience
with the issue. Any help/comments for us new guys?
David Carter, RV-6, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
>
> If you want to fly IFR, be sure that your limitations sheet
> has a line that states "Day/Night VFR and IFR operation
> is authorized".......
>
>
>Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
>wstucklen1(at)juno.com
>
Fred,
Yes and no. My DAR indicated that he nor the feds would specifically
authorize night or IFR flight in any homebuilt. The airworthiness cert
states that the aircraft is approved for VFR day unless equipped per FAR
..... This puts the responsibility on me to ensure that the required
equipment is installed. When the plane was inspected I did have the
required equipment for night and IFR. I was assured that I could legally
fly IFR and/or at night based on this airworthiness.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV- Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wavey elevator leading edge. |
<< Beside replacing the skin :-( what other choices do I have? Could I
simply snip the waves in half and put additional rivits on each side of
the slices. I think this would contour the edges well enough, however,
I'm concerned about any loss in structural integrity.
Any help would be appreciated.
Paul Peterson >>
Hi Paul...
I wouldn't worry about it too much,it's a non structural part of the skin.
I would get it as flat as I could as is....maybe some extra pop rivets to hold
it down....when hung on the stab,even at full travel you won't see the seam.
so....only you & us listers will know the waves are there.
Jim Wendel
N43RV...RV4
#80505 RV8
....tail done & The wing kit is on a truck on it's way to me as we speak
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wavey elevator leading edge. |
I used the edge rolling tool from Avery to
>give the edge a slight bend to create a smooth transition, however, it
>is evident that I put too much tool pressure to the edge as the skin
now
>has several 'waves' that I can't seem to flatten out when rivitting.
>Paul Peterson
>paul.peterson(at)ibm.net
>RV-8 finishing tail - wings are on order.
>uld
Paul,
The trick to using the rolling tool is to make several light passes..and
the finished result should not be readily apparent to the eye..it only
takes a very small curl to do the job. When I roll edges..I hold the
part up to the light..and if there is somewhat of a change in the
reflected light along the edge, then the tool has done it's job.
Just go easier on the next elevator...and you'll have great results!
Brian Denk
-8 #379
riveting skins on left wing
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>Hi all,
>
>I keep seeing statements saying that Veriprime isn't self sealing and
needs
>a top coat. What does this say for the benefit of using Veriprime
without a
>top coat? I'm under the impression that many people (including myself)
do
>this. I'm also under the impression that Veriprime is high on the
approved
>primer list from Van's, with no caveat about needing a top coat.
Naturally,
>the exterior surfaces will get top coated, but I have no plans to top
coat
>the interior surfaces.
>
>I guess my question is: Are you saying that Veriprime is "no better
than
>not priming at all", or "better than not priming, but not as good as
other
>primers"? I've gotta admit, I consider ANY primer on the alclad stuff
to be
>overkill, but I'm doing it anyway.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Russell Duffy
Russell,
I share your pain! It's a crazy issue and everybody has an opinion on
it. I've been through this myself, and have been using Variprime on all
interior surfaces..WITHOUT any other coating. Just out of curiosity last
night, I read the label on the latest quart of primer..and nowhere did I
see any reference to any form of coating. I think that if DuPont
considered it important enough to mention..they WOULD have!
I, too feel that priming Alclad is just another level of protection that
most will not need in all but the worst environments..but I kinda like
the "military chic" look it gives to the parts. What the heck, I'll
never own an F-18.
I try to keep in mind the robust structures in the war era
machines...which, to my understanding, were acid etched (as Vari prime
supposedly does all by itself), then zinc chromated...and that was it.
The B-17G I got to drive two years ago sure was in fine shape! (yeah, it
was COOOL!)
Okay, back to building...
Brian "donning asbestos suit for the impending anal-retentive type
assaults" Denk
-8 #379
finally riveting wing skins.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> Here are a couple of questions . . .
>
> Even though I am still early in my project, I am trying to decide
> whether or not to make the RV6 IFR capable. The amount of stuff . . .
> to be loaded into the panel will play into the decision.
Hi Sam,
I just read a few of the replies that your inquiry generated and felt
motivated to respond. Consider the fact that the world of GA is
dominated by the light airplane: the Cessna 172s, 182s, the Piper
PA28s, etc. The vast majority are IFR equipped: two nav/coms, DME,
ADF, marker beacon receiver, glide slope receiver, transponder,
whatever. These aircraft are arguably no more capable than an RV of
flying safely in icing conditions. Clearly, safe, pleasurable IFR
flight is dependent on staying clear of thunderstorms, icing, and other
hostile conditions, and on knowing and respecting your own personal
minimums.
None of this necessarily implies a day-VFR airplane. My personal
interests as an instrument-rated pilot lie predominantly in IFR cross
country flying. I have only a mild interest in basic aerobatics:
aileron rolls, loops, lazy eights, etc. So I'm building an RV-6A, not a
Pitts or Christen Eagle, and although most would describe it as
over-equipped, I don't care; it's my airplane and I'm building it to
satisfy my own interests. This is not to say that I will intentionally
fly into forecast icing or other hostile weather conditions or take off
at night over mountains into heavy weather. I fly from Santa Monica
airport in Southern California. Most of my IFR flying comprises
penetrating cloud layers on climbouts and approaches and avoiding heavy
cumulus enroute. Moreover, I fly when many pilots are held on the
ground by nothing more than the marine layer that drifts in and out of
Santa Monica bay and along the California coast.
I wish I could respond to your certification questions more specifically
but, like you, I'm still in the building process. In case you're
worried about being the only guy around with a full panel, know that
you're not alone by a longshot. I think most of the guys with fully
equipped, IFR-capable RVs tend to be quiet about them because they don't
fit the "model" of the light, day-IFR, aerobatic, "sport airplane," RV
archetype. I have roughly 20 hours in an IFR-equipped RV-6A, and
there's no doubt in my mind that the airplane is roughly as IFR-capable
as a Cessna 172 or whatever. Given the configuration of most of the GA
aircraft in the country, an IFR-equipped airplane is the rule, not the
exception.
If you'd like to correspond further about my own plans, please contact
me off-line. I could even provide you with an illustration of my panel,
if you're interested.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
OK, builders, it's time for some encouraging talk about FLYING.
You too, will soon be writing about FLYING. (Soon, soon.)
First and foremost, let me reiterate what you have heard a thousand times:
YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE THIS AIRPLANE.
OK. I now have 19+ hours of test flight time and am having a blast.
Some thoughts:
*As you develop your test flight cards, just sit down and figure out what
you want the 25 or 40 hours to involve. You need to test all parameters
that the airplane will fly in future flights: if it is going to be certified
to 6Gs, then you must go out and pull 6Gs (!). Ask around, read, watch the
list. As for the flight cards: make them up. (This way you get to imagine
yourself flying, which is cool.) You don't necessairly have to do each one
in order or do just one on one flight. I have combined/changed/modified
many of the flight cards I thought up before I was flying. You can combine
altitude speed runs with glide rates, for example. Get up there, go,
various glide speeds on the way down. I found I needed to do most of the
high speed fuel/speed runs early as my engine is new and needs 65-75% for
the first 25 or so hours. Oh, twist my arm. Latest midweight speed runs
average 190mph at 70% (wheeeeeeeeee).
*This airplane runs cool. The engine, I mean. I have the oil cooler air
intake 90% blocked and the oil cooler air exit gate closed and now am
getting 170-180 in cruise. I am using a 2" scat from the back of #3
cylinder baffle to the cooler mounded on the engine mount with a 2" air exit
on the back of the cooler with a cockpit-controled air gate. OATs: 3-11 C.
Never an oil temp over 180 yet. Cylinder temps never over 310, average
280-290. I run 40W mineral oil, preheated with a sump heater and old
blanket on the cowel. Starts 3rd blade with 3 pumps of the throttle and 2
seconds of prime (front two cylinders).
SO: it may be more effective to block the air coming IN the oil cooler than
to block it on the back side from coming OUT. I used a slightly modified 45
degree cockpit heater gate from Vans for the exit, which could easily be
used to limit the air coming in. Problem is, you won't know if your engine
is going to run cool until you are FLYING. But you probably will need some
oil cooler air regulation method. This has beed discussed (in the archives).
*I have the Infinity stick grip and really like it. Has a great feel in the
hand and I love the hands-on ability to switch frequencies, turn on landing
lights etc. without lifting a hand from the stick. Cockpit layout has
worked very well. I sat in the cockpit (or an imaginary one) for many hours
before finalization of my design. I also looked at military cockpits and
other RVs for ideas. Great thing is: I have not found a THING I want to
change or move. Lots of "flying" before flying has paid off.
*Flaps: I have manual flaps. I like them, although they take some getting
used to to figure out methods of making them easy to work. I have a visual
flap indicator on the left flap that shows as the flaps are lowered. It is
on the stainless steel strip far outboard (one checker: first notch; two
checkers: second notch). This is REALLY handy to glance at while flying.
Highly recommeded. Simple, much quicker than something in the cockpit (you
ARE looking outside most of the time while in the pattern, aren't you?).
Easier than checking handle position.
Well, gotta go fly. More later.
Keep building.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | RV8/rudder/K-1000-6 |
Hello,
Is it permissible to enlarge the holes in the K-1000-6 plate nut to accept
a -5 rivet instead of the -4?
This particular plate nut is at the bottom of the spar at the intersection
of R410, R405PD and spar.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
This is a legal question, and I'm in Canada, so I'm looking for
the Canadian answer. But the subject may be of interest to
non-Canadians as well.
I expect to make my -6 VFR-only initially, largely for cost.
However, I'd like to have the option of making it IFR-legal
later (primarily to make it VRF-OTT-legal). Can I upgrade my
permit to IFR-legal at a later date? Should I build an IFR-legal
pitot-static system right from the start?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
[-6 tail]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Weights |
>One of the starter replacements used to offer $100 trade in on your old
>Prestolite. That seems very low, and is probably only core value. I bet
>you'll have a hard time getting more than B&C or Sky-Tec want for their
>replacements.
B&C used to offer $100 for an operating, gear reduction Prestolite.
I don't know if he's still doing that. . . I hope not. Ostensibly,
he was going to sell them to a local overhaul shop as cores but
I can tell you that there's a mounatin of those damned things sitting
on a shelf in his back shop. He decided that he didn't want to
contribute to putting them back into circulation . . . he's
got a lot of bux tied up in high-dollar scrap iron . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
| Subject: | Scary flying story |
OK, this isn't RV related exactly - it's my scary flying story from last
week. I'm so happy to be alive that I feel like sharing.
> In the WWI era parachutes were all made out of silk. An aviator was
> considered to be a member of the "catepillar club" if he had ever had his
> life saved by a parachute.
>
> I'm the newest member of the catepillar club.
>
> Here's how it went:
>
> This paragliding site in Mexico is known for strong afternoon thermals.
> The whole idea of the site is to launch early in the day before the
> conditions on launch built up too much. Then once airborne, catch the
> afternoon thermals and try to fly them for the 10 mile trip back to town.
> Note that I use the word "town" loosely here. This is a town 3 hours from
> Mexico city. I didn't see any hospitals (or even gas stations) for a
> long, long way. The scenery was beautiful though. Standing amongst 90
> foot tall ponderosa pines, staring for miles. (take mental note: mountain
> is entirely covered with 90' pine trees)
>
> I get to launch and there are about 20 people already flying. Turns out
> there is an international competition at this site next week and people
> are getting there early to practice. I watch 5 or 6 launches including
> someone from our group and decide to go. I set up and make a goofy
> looking launch. It was ok - just no points for style. I haven't flown
> paragliders in a while so my first 15 minutes of the flight were a little
> tense. I finally settled into the harness and got about the work of
> gaining altitude. The thermals were "punchy" meaning you'd suddenly find
> yourself going up but without enough room to turn completely within the
> lift.
>
> I eventually found a ridge that was working. A flight directly along the
> ridge resulted in a good tone the whole way. The tone comes from a device
> called a "variometer" that tells you how fast you are going up by playing
> different tones. It's difficult to tell small changes in lift without the
> device. It turns out mine also has an alarm for when you're plummeting
> towards earth. I'd learn about that later...
>
> I've now climbed through 80% of the wings out there. The mountain from
> which I launched was at 8000 feet and I was at about 9200 feet now. The
> idea is to get up to about 11000 feet before going over the back of the
> mountain. Air is really trashy on the lee side of a mountain unless you
> are high enough.
>
> Suddenly I hear a crinkly sound from the right hand wing tip. A collapse
> was happening. The idea in a collapse is to keep flying straight with the
> opposite brake (the wing may want to turn in the direciton of the
> collapse) and if necessary, re-inflate the tip using the same-side brake
> handle.
>
> By the time I could think to fly straight the collapse came out on its
> own. As quickly as it happened so did the left tip. Again, it came out
> on its own. I'm getting rocked and rolled a little bit so I decide to
> steer towards clearer...
>
> OOOOPPPPSSS!!! In an instant the whole right hand side of my wing
> deflates. I begin a sudden swooping turn to the right. Full left brake
> can't stop the turn. Just as I have the left hand side of my wing fully
> stalled the right side pops open and instantly the wing spins. Within 2
> seconds what was a big paraglider is now an angry ball of tangled fabric.
>
> (9000 feet)
>
> beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep went my sink
> alarm. It was the most frantic sounding alarm I'd ever heard. I was now
> falling backwards, helicoptering around this ball of trash. I was under
> about 2 G's based on the difficulty of keeping my hands in front of me. I
> tried each recovery procedure - pull the brakes, D risers, etc. Nothing
> worked as I had one long set of twists between me and the wing. I was
> accelerating towards the ground quickly and in seconds was only 500 feet
> over the top of the mountain.
>
> (8500 feet)
>
> My wing was hopeless. Nothing was trying to sort out -- it was just
> getting worse. Somewhere in my head I was waiting to hear one of my
> buddies on the radio tell me to pull my reserve. I realized "what the
> hell am I waiting for that for?" I reached around behind me for my
> reserve handle but couldn't feel it. My thick ski gloves (it gets cold at
> 11000 feet) were keeping me from feeling anything. I had to let go of the
> wing, turn around in my harness, look and grab the handle.
>
> Letting go of a paraglider is equivalent to admitting that you are now
> just a passenger (a payload) and no longer a pilot. It feels as strange
> as being on the I5 at 70mph and suddenly unbuckling your seatbelt,
> dropping the driver seat flat and climbing into the back seat of your own
> car.
>
> (8300 feet)
>
> I found the reserve handle and pitched it way out. Paragliding reserves
> are not like skydiving reserves. In skydiving you have a handle that you
> simply pull and a parachute launches out of your back. In that case you
> usually have thousands of feet of altitude and maybe 120mph of wind to
> help deploy the chute. In paragliding you don't have the altitude or
> airspeed to deploy a big chute. You have to actually throw the bag which
> contains the chute far enough to extend the lines and hard enough to get
> the chute out of the bag. You then have to tug the bridle itself to get
> it to inflate. Since most paragliding accidents happen low to a mountain
> the idea is that your reserve should be sized just large enough to save
> your life but not prevent broken limbs. Why use such a small reserve?
> Because if you had a big cushy reserve you'd probably never get it opened
> in time when you needed it most and it would do you zero good.
>
> (8200 feet)
>
> My reserve was pitched mightily and my next step was to go about disabling
> the wing. The reserve stopped my spin which meant that the wing would
> start to untangle itself. The last thing I now wanted was for the wing to
> re-inflate. If it did it could "downplane" which means the wing would fly
> opposite the tug of the reserve and I'd be going down faster than under
> either one alone. Another bad thing is that the wing could reinflate and
> knock the reserve down (or tangle). I looked at the risers and found the
> B-lines. If you hold in the B lines the wing can't re-inflate. Oh no - I
> forgot to tug the bridle of the reserve - I hope it is deploying! A quick
> glance over my shoulder revealed the most beautiful thing I'd ever seen -
> a round green parachute. A beautiful, round, open, green parachute.
>
> (8100 feet)
>
> Next step - assume crash position. When coming down under a reserve you
> have to realize the descent is over 600 foot per minute down and you have
> no steering or flaring control. You have to do a "PLF" or parachute
> landing fall to break the impact. My old skydiving teacher reminded me to
> pretend that you're holding a winning lottery ticket between your knees
> and don't want to let it go. If you keep your body in that position you
> act like a human shock absorber and will take the impact with a roll. If
> you let your legs apart they won't last...
>
> (8050 feet)
>
> Now that I was clutching the B risers with my arms, had my legs together
> hard and was only feet above the trees I quickly radio'ed so someone would
> see where I went in. "Marc, I'm going in" I said with an obviously scared
> whimper. As the top of the trees rushed up to meet me I stopped to think
> about how cruel I had been year after year to that poor Christmas tree
> angel I had stuck on the top of my tree. How I didn't want to know what
> that felt like...
>
> I wasn't sure whether I was hoping to get hung up in the trees or to thump
> thruough to the ground. What happened was with a crackly crack snap thump
> my reserve and wing both broke some branches on the way to the ground and
> I landed on a wonderfully steep face. My legs, butt, head hit in that
> order greatly softening my fall. I was fine. I WAS FINE! I shouted over
> the radio and everyone cheered. It took the kids 20 mintues to spot me on
> the back side of that mountain. I'm glad I wasn't waiting for any
> paramedics becasue I then realized that this wasn't seattle. No
> helicopter minutes away. No "overlake" hospital...
>
> (7920 feet)
>
> I gathered up what was left of my equipment and spent the rest of the time
> just hanging out in Mexico. The next day an instructor/competitor flying
> my identical wing got into a spin and rode his reserve down. From the
> ground it looked like a very recoverable situation but he was definitely
> spooked (as was everyone else) with my little adventure.
>
> Other than that Valle de Bravo is a nice town. Great scenery, ate shrimp
> cocktails and drank some cerveza. Too bad nobody caught my last
> paraglider flight on tape...
>
> -Mike
RV8 #80047. Rigging left wing. Swearing off all flying machines that tend
to collapse in the first signs of turbulence.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
> That's why I went with three separate supplies (both wings and combo
tail) >with the sync line connecting all. I'm lit up like a Christmas
tree, what with the >RMD tip lights and all. Being visible is good.
GV:
What strobes did you use (P/N)? What is RMD?
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Strike |
Zeidman, Richard B wrote:
>
>
> Do any of the listers have any news on the Lycoming factory strike.
So far as I know they are still on strike and are still delivering
engines. The lead times have streached out on engines. I recently
wanted to replace the engine on my Tripacer. Because of the strike I
couldn't send them my engine and get the same engine back after
overhaul. They had an engine in stock for exchange however that had
been overhauled. I decided I wanted a "Zero Time" rather than their
"overhauled" engine. I ordered it in early October and received it in
December.
Mike Denman
RV6
Pay attention to the details
Sweat the small shit!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Wavey elevator leading edge. -Reply |
Paul,
You could do like what you have suggested and it would not effect the
structural integrity of the right elevator at all. I recommend you to drill a
small hole (#40) at the end of the cut to prevent crack propagating to the
elevator spar . Also make sure the elevator fit well with the
horizontal stabilizer and there are no binding due to additional rivets.
T.Nguyen
Closing on top wing skins and Fuselage on order.
RV-6A
>>> Paul Peterson 02/05/98 09:12pm >>>
Beside replacing the skin :-( what other choices do I have? Could I
simply snip the waves in half and put additional rivits on each side of
the slices. I think this would contour the edges well enough, however,
I'm concerned about any loss in structural integrity.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Wavey elevator leading edge. |
My trim tab is not what I would like it to be but I decided to move on and
rework or replace the trim tab later if it turns out worse than the rest.
We do this all the time in software. Get it out the door and fix minor bugs
later.
hal
>
> Beside replacing the skin :-( what other choices do I have? Could I
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A front top decking. |
Fellas,
I have managed to get the forward deck structure assembled on my
-6A, to include the instrument panel. I haven't drilled the F671 forward
skin, yet. For those of you who are ahead of me, when did you rivet
this structure together. I know I can't get the sub-panel in if I have the
F621x pieces riveted; so, I have to make sure I don't fall into the trap of
putting those in without the sub-panel's being there, first. Anyway,
when did you do it? If done early, did it cause problems later when
working on the canopy frame, etc.? BTW, mine is a tip up.
Jim Sears
RV-6A (Console, next. Assembling engine.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHink11769(at)aol.com |
Brian,
After reading your post I thought I would offer some assistance.
** Just out of curiosity last night, I read the label on the latest quart of
primer
..and nowhere did I see any reference to any form of coating. I think that if
DuPont
considered it important enough to mention..they WOULD have!**
The label has the following statement:
615S Variprime Self-Etching Primer, Variprime is a two component, fast drying,
self-etching enamel primer with excellent corrosion resistance for refinishing
passenger cars or commercial vehicles with any topcoats. To be used only with
616S variprime converter.
This is a very clear statement that Variprime is a primer to be used with any
topcoat. What part of that statement is un-clear to you?
** Brian "donning asbestos suit for the impending anal-retentive type
assaults" Denk**
Most of us try to post accurate information to the RV-List to help other
builders, its unfortunate that you choose to spam the list with your BS.
Curtis Hinkley
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(at)ciswired.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Strike |
On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, John M. Denman wrote:
>
> Zeidman, Richard B wrote:
> >
> >
> > Do any of the listers have any news on the Lycoming factory strike.
I have some info on the strike at
www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Lstrike/lstrike.html
greg
greg travis greg@ciswired.com http://www.prime-mover.org/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
You said:
>
>
> It is necessary to have sufficient moisture in the air to properly
> convert the
> acid into the phosphate film. Proper conversion requires
> nine-hundredths of a
> pound of water per pound of dry air during application of the primer.
>
>
According to the my chart (Carrier Corp. Form AC-199 Psychrometric
Chart, copyright 1946) in order to get 0.09 lbs water / lb dry air, at
100% RH (relative humidity) you must be at least 123.5 deg Fahrenheit!
If you are at 80% RH, better be at least 132 deg Fahrenheit. And for
those poor sots of us in the dry West, if you are only 30% RH, better
kick the old thermostat up to 171 deg F and turn on the humidifiers!
Of course this means there must sure be a lot of planes out there with
nice blistery paint jobs, since I doubt I'm the only one that finds such
conditions rather lethal, and this is the first I've ever heard of
adding water to Variprime. :-)
Keith Jensen
-6A emp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
mikel(at)dimensional.com wrote:
then you must go out and pull 6Gs (!).
Where do you get this information from? quite frankly I don't believe
this is true.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | gear leg farings |
I have a question for those of you lucky enough to be flying your RV-6 or 6A.
I'm getting ready to build the gear leg fairings. I've seen a lot of negative
comments regarding the aluminum ones. Should I waste my time on the aluminum
or should I go ahead and build/buy fiberglass ones?
I'm also confused about the one versus two piece fairings. The instructions
say to cut the aluminum fairings into two pieces to allow for flexing during
landing otherwise it will oil can. Okay, that makes sense. But if that is
true,
then how come the fibeglass fairings don't crack? Are they installed in one
piece or are they also cut into two pieces?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Randy Pflanzer
Indianapolis
N417G RV-6 Wiring and Other Assorted Details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Someone Looking to Buy a RV-6 |
Just this week, a message was sent to the list by someone (in
Illinois I think) that was looking to buy a RV-6.
I was too quick with the delete key. Could someone forward
his message to me. I think I might have a lead for him. Thanks.
Randy Pflanzer
Indianapolis
N417G RV-6 Wiring and Other Details
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wash Primers |
In a message dated 2/6/98 5:30:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
KJensen(at)simplot.com writes:
> Of course this means there must sure be a lot of planes out there with
> nice blistery paint jobs, since I doubt I'm the only one that finds such
> conditions rather lethal, and this is the first I've ever heard of
> adding water to Variprime. :-)
>
I'm not advising pouring water into your primer. I'm simply posting
information I have not seen on the list before. That is why I referenced the
A&P Airframe Textbook. It comes from IAP, Inc. and I got it from Alexander
Aeroplane, now ACS east. Interested builders can reference the book and see
the chart for themselves.
Mark McGee
RV4, epoxy primed innards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)cboss.com> |
subscribe PAGAN(at)CBOSS.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Scary flying story |
Mike,
Enjoyed the story, and glad everything worked out. I'm a hang glider pilot
myself, but shelved my glider about a year and a half ago. Once I started
building the RV I found I wasnt flying enough to maintain proficiency. A
couple of bone headed episodes made me realise that hang gliding isnt
something I should be doing once every three months or so. But I've never
come down "under canopy"!
Every once in awhile the urge to go hang glide is pretty irrestible; part
of the motivation to get the RV done. Nothing like a nice easy flight in bouyant
late afternoon air, or a 100 mile cross country in booming air.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (waiting for fuse)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>OK, this isn't RV related exactly - it's my scary flying story from last
>week. I'm so happy to be alive that I feel like sharing.
>> -Mike
>RV8 #80047. Rigging left wing. Swearing off all flying machines that tend
>to collapse in the first signs of turbulence.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
"Garrett V. Smith" wrote:
>Actual IFR flying IS different than what Van
> designed the RV for, picture yourself in your aircraft at night in icing
Could we get a quotation from Van's or whatever *FACT* there is to substantiate
this?
You can fly IFR without doing it at night in icing can't you? :-)
> but IFR certification goes a little deeper than that.
Please let me know what this "certification" is for experimentals and where you
get the facts. :-)
> My RV is going to be day VFR only, I fly IFR for a living and it 'is' work
> some times.
Suit yourself. Here in the Bay Area of California we often have a marine layer
- bases at 1000 agl and less than a thousand thick. My usual destination is the
Sierras where it may be severe clear. I want to be able to legally pop up
through that layer so mine will have appropriate equipment -- should anyone
care. :-) :-)
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bs(at)cbtek.com (Bill Shaw) |
Sam -
To fly legally fly IFR you must have your pitot-static system, your
transponder, and your altimeter recertified every 24 calendar months. In
addition, you must verify the accuracy of the VOR radios every 30 days
(There is a limit of 4 or 6 degrees depending upon where and under what
conditions it's checked). If you are going with a certified IFR GPS unit, I
am not sure what the regulations are at this point.
As far as what the DAR requires, I think you should discuss that with the
DAR. It seems as though I've seen a post on this to the effect that you
should notify the DAR of your intentions when he intially looks at your
aircraft, and he will tell you what is expected of you and the aircraft in
order to fly IFR.
Hope this doesn't discourage you, I plan to make mine IFR when the time
comes.
Bill Shaw
bs(at)cbtek.com
What minimum equipment did the DAR require and what was involved in
receiving IFR certification? (Standard IFR equipment. i.e., VOR,
Glideslope, GPS?-expensive!!, ADF??, Loran??(It's not dead yet!), DG, HSI?
Is biannual recertification of the pitot system required? (Yes every 24
calendar months!)
Even though I am still early in my project, I am trying to decide
whether or not to make the RV6 IFR capable. The amount of stuff required
to be loaded into the panel will play into the decision.
Thanks in advance for your replies!
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TPhilpin(at)aol.com |
Heavily edited:
..and nowhere did I see any reference to any form of coating. I think that
if
DuPont considered it important enough to mention..they WOULD have!**....
The label has the following statement:
615S Variprime Self-Etching Primer, Variprime is a two component, fast
drying,
self-etching enamel primer with excellent corrosion resistance for
refinishing ...
with any topcoats. To be used only with 616S variprime converter.
This is a very clear statement that Variprime is a primer to be used with any
topcoat. What part of that statement is un-clear to you?
Most of us try to post accurate information to the RV-List to help other
builders,.........
Curtis Hinkley
RV8
>>
At the risk of creating a malestrom:
I have begun my own research regarding primers et al, with the industry
representitives. My inquiry has been restricted to the options available for
the interior protection of surfaces and the fuselage. I can confirm that
Dupont regards Veriprime as the second most effective primer application in
preparation for a top coat. (The first would be acid etch and conversion, a 2
part epoxy primer, then a top coat of choice). Veriprime is reccommended to
be applied after a cleaning and scuffing of the surface. Veriprime is not
reccommended as a barrier to dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion or as a
moisture barrier without a top coat. In fact, I was told by a CT technical
rep that it may even absorb moisture without a top coat. The national tech
rep indicated it had some properties associated with zinc chromate (Dupont
2085s yellow/green) but they were minimal. I was told that the one part zinc
chromate (DuPont 2085S) still provides reliable dissimilar metals and moisture
protection (for the interior surfaces) which needs only to be applied over a
clean surface. For higher protection a three step (etch, primer, top coat) or
two step application (self-etching primer, top coat) is required. DuPont
800-338-7668 (#2)
More information is being obtained from DuPont and the other manufacturers
including the methods of application, cost, weight, and and other pertinent
data. I will make an effort to distribute the information to others when
compiled. Please don't shoot down the messenger....
Tony P. (CT)
RV-8 empennage still in the box
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage/Wing assembly |
Many thanks to all who responded to my question about needing to insert the wings
for gear alignment in my 6A. This is a clever bunch of people, but that's
no surpise.
Brian Eckstein
Fuselage on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Air Hammer intead of Riveter |
Has anyone thought of using an air hammer intead of an air riveter? Will
the rivet sets fit in a hammer? It seems to me that these two pieces of
equipment are pretty similar, and the air hammer is much less expensive.
thanks...
Paul Besing
RV-6A QB (197AB)
Waiting on kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
Listers; I am installing the left tank skin and am having a heck of a time
getting the skins to meet up with the lower main skin on the other side. I
have about a 1/4" more to go, and all the stretching and pushing and strapping
does'nt get it much closer . I can still feel some slack in the skin on the
top side, should I just go ahead and drill and clecoe my way up the tank skin
and assume that it will meet up properly? Also I am about 1/32, maybe less,
overlapping onto the leading edge skins evenly all the way around, so will
have to file off that edge to match. Did anybody else have to do this?
Thanks.
Von Alexaner
8 #544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I did a stupid thing today. I was showing a friend in another rv
how to pick up the tail from a dead stop and start a takeoff run
when a gust of wind caught me, and my new prop
turned into splinters. What's another 700 dollars and a lot of
embarrassment? On the same subject, a few weeks ago I sent a
felix propeller back to felix to see if he could tweak on it so
it would work a little better on my -4. He told me on the phone
he probably could, but, if not he would buy it from me for 200.00
, or more if it was in good shape. Well, he called me today and
said it would need a new leading edge and the tips were going to
have to be cut and redone. And he said he would give me 100.00
for it, or 214.00 to fix it. It only had one small nick on one
tip when I sent it to him. When I asked him about the 200.00 he
mentioned last time, he said, oh no, maybe if it was a sensenich,
but not for this one. Funny how his story changed when he had my
prop in his posession. I told him to send me 100.00, it wasn't
worth mailing back to me. The Props Inc. prop I had was a very
good one. It cost 700.oo including shipping. I will try a
Sterba next, unless someone on the list has a good performing
prop they would like to sell. Let me know. Thanks. (Sorry so
long)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< 615S Variprime Self-Etching Primer, Variprime is a two component, fast
drying,
self-etching enamel primer with excellent corrosion resistance for
refinishing
passenger cars or commercial vehicles with any topcoats. To be used only with
616S variprime converter.
This is a very clear statement that Variprime is a primer to be used with any
topcoat. What part of that statement is un-clear to you? >>
What this duPont statement says to me is that Variprime is compatible with all
common topcoat chemistries, not that it requires a topcoat to be effective at
all. So, yes, how you arrived at the interpretation you did regarding the
duPont statement is unclear to me.
For all interior priming requirements, IMO Variprime is quite effective on its
own when applied over clean aluminum with only a mild scotchbrighting (there's
that peculiar verb again), without any alumiprep, alodine, eye of newt, secret
sause, and/or any additional topcoat paint which duPont would love for you to
buy from them.
-GV
came out perfect.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air Hammer intead of Riveter |
<< It seems to me that these two pieces of
equipment are pretty similar, and the air hammer is much less expensive. >>
An air hammer, I've been told, will ruin your project. If you can borrow an
air hammer and practice on scrap with satisfaction and quality, then you would
be the judge of this. Think of all the $$$ Boeing would save if they equipped
their mechanics with air hammers instead of costly rivet guns.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Larry,
On the static subject, you bring up a very good point. I have had some
communications problems due to static discharge. It has been infrequent,
but when it does occur, it can cause communication problems that could
have ressulted in a missed clearance. I'm going to be experimenting with
my own version static wicks this summer....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Hammer intead of Riveter |
>air hammer is much less expensive.>
>An air hammer, I've been told, will ruin your project. If you can borrow an
>air hammer and practice on scrap with satisfaction and quality, then you
would
>be the judge of this. Think of all the $$$ Boeing would save if they
equipped
>their mechanics with air hammers instead of costly rivet guns.
Most air hammers (and I own a couple) have no "teasing trigger" like a good
rivet gun does. The "zip guns" as they are commonly called are just too
coarse to be used easily in aircraft construction. Imagine the difference
between a light switch and a dimmer, and you have the approximate
difference between a "zip gun" and a 3X or 4X rivet gun. If you happen to
be in the body shop business, you could use your expensive rivet gun as a
zip gun.... But I would caution against the reverse.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Hammer intead of Riveter |
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 8:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: Air Hammer intead of Riveter
>
>Has anyone thought of using an air hammer intead of an air riveter? Will
>the rivet sets fit in a hammer? It seems to me that these two pieces of
>equipment are pretty similar, and the air hammer is much less expensive.
>
>thanks...
>
>Paul Besing
>
>RV-6A QB (197AB)
>Waiting on kit
>
I used an $8.88 air hammer to practice riveting because I was anxious to
get practicing before I got my tail kit and Avery 3X gun. The air hammer
actually had a nice teasing trigger and the rivets (3/32 and 1/8) that I
drove with it were all as good as I later drove with the 3X real gun.
I had heard horror stories about how the air hammer would "tear up" the
rivets or work-harden them. Being an experimental physicist I decided to
test that myself in my RV "laboratory".
I drove several dozen 3/32 and 1/8 rivets, flush and button head, with both
guns, at pressures that required between 1/2 and 5 seconds to upset the
rivet. I thought that if I would get work hardening, it would happen with
the 5 second, many-blow rivets.
By careful visual examination I found no significant difference between guns
and drive times! I made a crude indent-type hardness tester with a
spring-loaded center punch. Examination under a microscope revealed no
significant hardness differences and no grain structure change as would be
associated with work hardening.
Nonetheless I never use the air hammer anymore. The 3X Avery gun has a
better balance and the slower hitting piston affords better control. I
tried the air hammer the other day because it fit between two angles on the
fuselage where the Avery wouldn't but I gave up on it because I couldn't
control the driving action as well as could with the Avery. I borrowed a
12" offset set and used the Avery.
Conclusion: Air hammer can drive acceptable rivets but real gun is easier
to use.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage installing NACA vents
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
>
>For all interior priming requirements, IMO Variprime is quite effective on
its
>own when applied over clean aluminum with only a mild scotchbrighting
(there's
>that peculiar verb again), without any alumiprep, alodine, eye of newt,
secret
>sause, and/or any additional topcoat paint which duPont would love for you to
>buy from them.
>
>-GV
GV ... this is part of a private response to MoeJoe ... The probable
difference is the definition of "quite effective". I would venture to
guess that DuPont has done a little more research into the long term
effectiveness of Variprime than you have ...:^) Moe was asking about my
source of information, and rightly so ....
Moe,
... it is the "DuPont Imron Aircraft Finishes" manual (actually a
little booklet) that describes their aircraft refinishing process. (Dupont
number E-67002 - rev 10/84) I believe I picked it up at Oshkosh in 1996.
The part in interest is the section on priming .. it describes use of
Variprime on Page 7.
At the end of the priming section is the following:
"A special note: Over most substrates Variprime is self-etching, but for
aircraft usage we reccommend both cleaning and conditioning the metal
surfaces to ensure maximum adhesion."
The section on preparation details 'cleaning and conditioning' as etch
and alodine. The cleaner is 225S Aluminum metal cleaner, and the MSDS
gives one of it's ingredents as:
11. Phosphoric Acid (22%)
Again ... this is Variprime, not another manufacturer. This is also
for external paint ... Variprime is NOT recommended for use without a top
coat.
... Gil Alexander
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHink11769(at)aol.com |
GV,
Since you did not understand the message on the front of the Variprime can I
would have hoped that you would have turned the can arround to the back were
the little box states :
DIRECTIONS FOR USE
Stir thoroughly to ensure uniform mixture,
USAGE: Variprime is recommended under all DuPont topcoats, including our color
coat/clear coat systems.
Now if that is not clear, turn the can arround again to the front, read the
note just to the left of the DuPont trade mark, it' printed in red, it states:
FOR INDUSTRIAL USE ONLY, by professional, trainned painters. Not for sale to
or use by the general public.
This statement has your name on it.
Curtis Hinkley
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wash Primers |
-----Original Message-----
From: FMark40(at)aol.com <FMark40(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wash Primers
>
>In a message dated 2/6/98 5:30:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>KJensen(at)simplot.com writes:
>
>> Of course this means there must sure be a lot of planes out there with
>> nice blistery paint jobs, since I doubt I'm the only one that finds such
>> conditions rather lethal, and this is the first I've ever heard of
>> adding water to Variprime. :-)
>>
>
>I'm not advising pouring water into your primer. I'm simply posting
>information I have not seen on the list before. That is why I referenced
the
>A&P Airframe Textbook. It comes from IAP, Inc. and I got it from Alexander
>Aeroplane, now ACS east. Interested builders can reference the book and
see
>the chart for themselves.
>
>Mark McGee
>RV4, epoxy primed innards
>
Hey guys, TIME OUT! Aren't we confusing conversion coating with paint
etching? They are different applications with different chemistries.
Dennis Persyk 6A fuselage
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | Nut plates for cover on trim tab |
How does one attach the nut plates on the left elevator for the trim
motor cover.
Regards----Mike Comeaux
mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Veriprime - For GV |
eye of newt, secret sause,
>
>-GV
Secret sause? Please listers, spell sauce with a "C" so when I do an
archive search for secret "sauces" it will come up without missing any
posts. :-)
Sorry GV I couldn't pass that one up, I'm sure you understand....Al ( all
smiles)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
>The label has the following statement:
>
>615S Variprime Self-Etching Primer, Variprime is a two component, fast
drying,
>self-etching enamel primer with excellent corrosion resistance for
refinishing
>passenger cars or commercial vehicles with any topcoats. To be used only
with
>616S variprime converter.
I just looked at my brand new can of Veriprime, and this statement is
absolutely, positively, NOT on it. Perhaps it's on some sort of additional
data sheet that you may have obtained, or they have more than one version of
the label. Of course it does say "Not for sale or use by the general
public". I guess that means I didn't really buy it, and I certainly can't
use it :-)
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>
> mikel(at)dimensional.com wrote:
>
> then you must go out and pull 6Gs (!).
>
At my age if I pulled 6G's That would be the end of the flight test.
Don
> Where do you get this information from? quite frankly I don't believe
> this is true.
> --
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Someone Looking to Buy a RV-6 |
Randy J. Pflanzer wrote:
>
>
> Just this week, a message was sent to the list by someone (in
> Illinois I think) that was looking to buy a RV-6.
>
> I was too quick with the delete key. Could someone forward
> his message to me. I think I might have a lead for him. Thanks.
>
> Randy Pflanzer
> Indianapolis
> N417G RV-6 Wiring and Other Details
>
I am looking for a project that has a lot of work done already. do you
know of any of these around?Tnx , Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air Hammer intead of Riveter |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Has anyone thought of using an air hammer intead of an air riveter?
>Will
>the rivet sets fit in a hammer? It seems to me that these two pieces
>of
>equipment are pretty similar, and the air hammer is much less
>expensive.
>
>thanks...
>
>Paul Besing
>
>
Paul,
The last line ogf yoour post should be a clue to your answer.
There is a reason that they are much less expensive.
Good rivet guns ahve a throttle trigger that allows good control of the
gun action, variable from barely on to full tilt.
An air hammer/air chissel basicly has a trigger that is an on/off switch
with no control available.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
"IFR" flying in an RV day or night is fine with the following
considerations.
I have several thousand hours flying IFR in many types of aircraft. I'ld
list them all but it would bore you. Most important is to not put
yourself in a position you aren't able to get out of. Sounds easy enough
doesn't it. But here is the kicker. "Weather is not is not 100%
predictable". Many times I've ended up in a senario that was not not
supposed to take place. Now I'm talking about cross-country flying not
punching up through the clouds.
Sure, during the summer you can deal with status layers and low overcast
to get on top and fly somewhere and then shoot a VOR,ADF or ILS to an
airport without too much of a problem. It's when the summer is about
over and your doing the same thing but now the temps have change enough
to promote ice. Not so much on the way up, but on the way down for the
approach. Gee! the temp was not suppose to be that low when we left to
come home. Ok! captain what do you do now? I wont go into the senarios
at this point but I'm simply trying to make a point about single engine
IFR. The pitfalls that we all get into no matter how good we think we
are and qualified an IFR pilot we may actually be, they are always
lurking around the corner when you least expect them.
Now having said all of this. I plan to equipt my RV with the basic IFR
instrumentation to; in the event of a situation that has developed
beyond the technology and science of weather forcasting and I have to
get my butt on the ground; since there is no other place to go and not
enough fuel then I will execute an IFR approach. Otherwise I'll stay VFR
at all times. Hey it's fun to see the countryside.
In New England we have learned that if you don't like the weather now.
Wait a little while it will change. I'll most likely opt in that
direction and enjoy my flying. IFR flying is not that much fun. It can
be down-rite dangerous to your health.
Besides...Been there...Done That Many Times.
My opinion
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Best of RVator |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
> I have a manual titled 16 Years of the RVator, published 6/94.
>The
> introduction includes the statement "This manual will be updated
>from
> current issues of the RVator every two years". Does anyone have
> information on who to contact for an updated version of this
>manual?
> The telephone number listed in my '94 issue is no longer in
>service.
> Thanks.
>
> gerald_gaulden(at)rec.raytheon.com
> or
> rv-6(at)juno.com
>
>
>
I'm not sure but I think 94 was when the orig (14 years) was first
published. I think the 16 year came out in 96. I haven't seen anything
of the next publication (I assume this year some time).
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
inal balance it. My airplane has a three blade prop. from him. He
seemed very knowledgable and was good to do business with (I disagree
with his opinion on prop. bolt torque values though).
Consider something like that as an option.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
fit if all of the other structure is
assembled correctly.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg farings |
<< Should I waste my time on the aluminum
or should I go ahead and build/buy fiberglass ones?>>
But the fiberglas ones from Mark Frederick or Tracy Saylor. They look so much
better IMO.
<< I'm also confused about the one versus two piece fairings. The
instructions
say to cut the aluminum fairings into two pieces to allow for flexing during
landing otherwise it will oil can. Okay, that makes sense. But if that is
true,
then how come the fibeglass fairings don't crack? >>
The fiberglas fairing is flexible (and attached using 2" of syntactic foam to
the top and bottom of the gear leg, allowing the center to flex freely) and
the aluminum fairing is rigid and difficult to support without it crimping.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< The probable
difference is the definition of "quite effective". I would venture to
guess that DuPont has done a little more research into the long term
effectiveness of Variprime than you have >>
Perhaps. But you can easily test it yourself without too much difficulty.
Just take a piece of aluminum, mask off a portion of it as an uncoated
control. Then prepare the balance of the sample with any coating
combination(s) you wish to test. Put the sample outside so that it gets both
sun and shade. Spray it every so often with a salt solution approximating sea
water in salinity. This will give you a good relative feel for the "real
world" performance. If you can steam age the sample, so much the better.
Am I given to understand that you topcoated the inside of your skins and such?
If so, your plane might last for 200 yrs, instead of mine which will probably
only last 100 yrs ;^). Of course by then we'll likely be flying starships
(not the Beech model).
The primer thread has now become stretched beyond reason. We should all agree
not to discuss politics, religion or primers. Surely no good will come of it.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
<34DB8715.E220F379(at)ix.netcom.com>
>
>> Where do you get this information from? quite frankly I don't believe
>> this is true.
>> --
>> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
Jerry ... frankly, this one is in the FARs ....:^)
*** snip from FAR search for 'experimantal' and 'range' - one hit ***
Sec. 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
*** snip ***
(b) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate
outside of an area assigned by the Administrator until it is shown that--
(1) The aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and
throughout all the maneuvers to be executed; and
(2) The aircraft has no hazardous operating characteristics or design
features.
*** more snipped ***
*** end FAR section ***
It's the bit about "...until it is shown that..." and "...all the
maneuvers to be executed" that MUST be shown before you can leave the
intial restricted area. If you say you have a plane that can pull 6g in a
tight turn, you must show that during testing - and presumably log it in
the logbook.
Gil (it's in the FARs) Alexander
... ELT mounting and wiring ...
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Mehrhoff" <99789978(at)email.msn.com> |
Yes, the canopy skirt is fiberglass. The glass work on the skirt and the
cowl is extremely good. The cowl is honeycomb. It looks really good and
will take heat better than glass. Is good for me since I am going to use a
180 turbocharged engine. I was a little disappointed with the amount of
material included in the fininsh kit, esentially cowl and canopy and
hardware for same, however guess it is to be expected. Did get a tailwheel.
I have had the same problem with plans and manual however can work around
it. I have modified my gear to use the new RV-4 gear legs. It really looks
good and saves quiet a bit of weight. Don't have that one out of jig and on
gear yet. We have another one on the gear. My finish kit went to packing,
and my credit card charged, on 9 Jan. I got the kit on 3 Feb.
-----Original Message-----
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nut plates for cover on trim tab |
In a message dated 2/7/98 12:00:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
writes:
> How does one attach the nut plates on the left elevator for the trim
> motor cover.
>
Countersink the # 3 rivets into the doubler. The # 6 screws will have to be
countersunk into the cover and will also require a bit of countersink into the
doubler as well.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Wavey elevator leading edge. |
That edge-rolling tool is hard to use. When you "roll" the skin, you
also stretch it. The stretching is what you see as waves. I would live
with the wavy edge for now and move on. It will not look as bad in a
few months.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
drilling F-672 bottom forward skin
-----Original Message-----I'm finishing up the right elevator
for my RV-8 and am afraid I may have
stressed the edge of the skin that overlaps the other when
rolled over
to form the leading edge. I used the edge rolling tool from
Avery to
give the edge a slight bend to create a smooth transition,
however,
________________________________________________________________________________
The homebuilts in our area (Connecticut) that are approved for IFR have a
statement in the Airworthiness attachment saying that the aircraft must be
properly equipped for IFR. It seems it is up to the builder/manufacturer to
insure it meets the requirements.
david faile, fairfield ct
CFII/A&P
Christen Eagle II since '82
RV6 (IFR) started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHink11769(at)aol.com |
GV,
We would all like to put the Variprime issue out to pasture however there is a
reason it won't go away.
I joined the RV-List about a year before I started building my RV8 to learn
about building airplanes and RV's. I looked up to people like you to provide
good information and be helpful. You have provided allot of help to builders
and I like your detailed responses, it seems that you know what you are
talking about and you really want to help.
What I do not understand is why, when you know how DuPont wants Variprime to
be used that you would decide to place incorrect statements on the list to
miss-lead new builders and then hide behind "IMHO".
Curtis Hinkey
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>
>Hi Listers:
>
>Just a few comments on IFR RV's.
>
>Before we spend piles of money on avionics and instruments to make our
>homebuilt aircraft IFR capable it may be prudent
>to think long and hard about the actual type of flying you intend to do
>with your aircraft. Actual IFR flying IS different than what Van
>designed the RV for, picture yourself in your aircraft at night in icing
>conditions over inhospitable terrain. There is no doubt that you can spend
>a truckload of money to equip your RV with fancy stuff and that you will
>have a nice panel that looks really functional,
>but IFR certification goes a little deeper than that.
>
>Heated pitot tubes and static ports.
>Heated fuel vents.
>Heated windshield.
>Prop deice.
>Wing deice, inflatable boots on the wing and tail, or better yet, a hot
>wing.
>
I must disagree. I have seen many RV's that have all of the capabilities
found in most hi-performance singles. They have a huge advantage in one area
over nearly all single engine store-bought airplanes, awesome climb
performance. In the ice you describe in your post this is the best
anti-icing protection you can have.
There is alot of IFR flying to do that is not in ICE, not at night, not in
inhospitable terrain. Even so, If I had to leave Steamboat Springs in an RV
4 at gross wgt or a Cessna 402 at gross IFR with a trace of rime ice
reported I think the RV might be a better choice. If an engine quit you
might be better off in the RV because you would land off airport in either
airplane. In the RV you would be going half as fast when you landed.
The important thing in an IFR airplane is a the pilot having a through
understanding of the limitations of the pilot, as well as the airplane. I
flew a C182 RG for years in Iowa for business. I never really had any real
ice problems. I iced it up alot but never had a problem. A 182 with 1
person in it in the winter climbs almost as good a RV.
Conversely, I flew nite freight in Twin Beeches and C-402s for 10 years.
They had most of the toys on your list some of them even worked. I have
been in some real dicey icing situations with them. (I too will spare the
details) They had lousy climb performance, and not going really was not an
option.
The RV is not an IFR bird for the brand new instrument pilot. It goes too
fast and rolls too quick. It is however a fine platform for a experienced
and current Instrument pilot. My 4 is not IFR, I hope to change that. I
scud run to and from Florida last fall. IFR would have been many times
safer.
IMHO
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
PS. sorry about the earlier post, I was forwarding that msg home so I could
respond and hit the wrong button.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
RV building tip of the day: The Avery edge rolling tool works much
better, IMO, if you stick some of the self-adhesive, UHMW tape on the
surface of the aluminum disk. The tool will roll much easier, there will be
no metal to metal contact and, as a result, no burrs are formed on the edge.
Bob Skinner RV-6 390 hr. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<< He
seemed very knowledgable and was good to do business with (I disagree
with his opinion on prop. bolt torque values though). >>
What were his opinion on the prop bolt specs ? I too has good results with his
prop but don't recall if I even ask him how to mount the prop.
RV-6A flying
75TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nut plates for cover on trim tab |
Mike wrote:
> How does one attach the nut plates on the left elevator for the trim
> motor cover.
Mike,
Verrry carefully (in voice of Arty Johnson). Seriously, the nutplates
get riveted to the E-615PP reinforcing ring. It can be done one of 4
ways.
#1 Make spacers out of .063" aluminium. Countersink the spacers to
allow
dimpling the cover plate. This allows using flush rivets with the
nutplates that Van's supplies. I did this. It worked nice but is a lot
of extra work.
#2 Buy nutplates with all 3 holes dimpled . I did this on my rudder
bottom. The 38 cents apiece I spent for them was money well spent. I
bought mine from Skybolt Airmotive. They are in the RV Yellerpages.
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
#3 Dimple the nutplate rivet holes in the nutplates Van provides.
Countersink the screw hole to allow use of flat head #6 screws. A number
of
people have done this successfully. I personally, don't think it's
worth
the wear and tear on my expensive dimple dies.
#4 Use NAS rivets to mount the nutplates. With these undersized head
rivets, you can countersink the E-615PP for the rivet heads. Countersink
the center hole of the nutplate as mentioned above.
Personally, I think option #2 is the best.
I will email you some photos of my installtion directly. The RV List
doesn't support graphic formats.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 waiting on wing kit
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: gear leg farings- why do they work? |
<< I'm also confused about the one versus two piece fairings. The
instructions
say to cut the aluminum fairings into two pieces to allow for flexing during
landing otherwise it will oil can. Okay, that makes sense. But if that is
true,
then how come the fibeglass fairings don't crack? Are they installed in one
piece or are they also cut into two pieces?
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Randy Pflanzer
Indianapolis
N417G RV-6 Wiring and Other Assorted Details
>>
Randy, and others:
The reason that the 'glass GLF's don't crack is: they don't flex, at least not
very much. The fairings I make are a wider chord, and therefore also wider at
the "spar" section. They contact the gear leg only at the top & bottom,and the
leg has plenty of room toflex inbetween. As installed, the fairings are
probably 2.25" thick at the top, and 1.25 at the bottom. This leaves lots of
room for that leg to do almost anything it wants, and still not contact the
inside of the GLF at the centerpoint.
BTW- most of the fellas are using stiffeners on their gear legs (-4's & -6's)-
many more than I would have thought!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | -4 gear on the -8? |
<< I have modified my gear to use the new RV-4 gear legs. It really looks
good and saves quiet a bit of weight. Don't have that one out of jig and on
gear yet. We have another one on the gear. >>
Hey- you're putting the std RV gear on the -8? What an idea! You could save a
bit more weight, if desired, by getting the titanium legs from J Harmon.
Turbo too? Fellas, I think we'd better watch this guy- he's got some nifty
ideas....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wavey elevator leading edge. |
The waviness is caused by the skin having been stretched on the edge. You
can use a shrinker tool to remove the stretch but it leaves little bite
marks from the jaws on the skin which would need to be sanded out. Since
these skins are thin, it probably wouldn't take much shrinking to get the
waviness out if you want to go to the trouble. Check around for someone who
has a shrinker that you can borrow if you chose to pursue this method and
practice on some scrap material first. Or buy one from U. S. Industrial
Tools or another supplier for somewhat over $100 new.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Hello,
>
>I'm finishing up the right elevator for my RV-8 and am afraid I may have
>stressed the edge of the skin that overlaps the other when rolled over
>to form the leading edge. I used the edge rolling tool from Avery to
>give the edge a slight bend to create a smooth transition, however, it
>is evident that I put too much tool pressure to the edge as the skin now
>has several 'waves' that I can't seem to flatten out when rivitting.
>
>Beside replacing the skin :-( what other choices do I have? Could I
>simply snip the waves in half and put additional rivits on each side of
>the slices. I think this would contour the edges well enough, however,
>I'm concerned about any loss in structural integrity.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>Paul Peterson
>paul.peterson(at)ibm.net
>RV-8 finishing tail - wings are on order.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
My last Veriprime comment is purely an observation. When I started the
first RV project 5.5 years ago, all I did was wipe down the parts with
acetone, then spray Veriprime. My house is within about 1.5 miles of the
Gulf of Mexico, and the normal humidity is about 90 % during the summer. I
still have scraps of parts from the original project in my garage, and none
of them show any signs of corrosion (this includes unprimed alclad). Around
here, bare steel rusts literally in front of your eyes, but after 5.5 years,
none of the primed steel parts are rusted. To me, this is indisputable
proof that Veriprime works.
Rusty (signing off the primer thread) Duffy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bs(at)cbtek.com (Bill Shaw) |
> I did a stupid thing today. I was showing a friend in another rv
> how to pick up the tail from a dead stop and start a takeoff run
> when a gust of wind caught me, and my new prop
> turned into splinters. What's another 700 dollars and a lot of
> embarrassment?
Mike-
It sounds as though you had a prop strike under power and, if you did, I
would strongly recommend you get the engine crankshaft examined for
damage!! Any prop strike, particularly under power, needs to be examined
thoroughly! My sympathies go out to you. It's not a cheap proposition!
Bill Shaw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Certification (Flying) |
>mikel(at)dimensional.com wrote:
>
>then you must go out and pull 6Gs (!).
>
>Where do you get this information from? quite frankly I don't believe
>this is true.
>--
>Jerry Springer
Heck, I was just trying to share some flying stories..............
But:
When an aircraft is certified, it has to have demonstrated that it can
perform within the design parameters. If you certify an aircraft to
withstand 6Gs, then that aircraft has demonstrated in test flying that it
withstood that force while flying. If you certify an aircraft to land in a
demonstrated crosswind of 20 knots, that aircraft has demonstrated that
landing. If an aircraft is certified to carry 100 pounds of baggage and
still be controlable, it has been demonstrated during flight testing. What
ever you have certified your aircraft to do, it has to have been
demonstrated so in test flying or you can not certify that aircraft to do
that maneuver. Has the aircraft been spun in the test flights? If not,
that aircraft cannot be legally spun.
FAR Section 91.319(b) requires you state in your log: "I certify that the
prescribed flight test hours have been completed and the aircraft is
controllable throughout its range of speeds and thorughout all maneuvers to
be executed, has no hazardous operating characteristics or design features,
and is safe for operation." And the form releasing you from Phase I into
Phase II states the above and "The following acrobatic flight maneuvers have
been satisfactorily performed in the flight test area and are recorded in
the aircraft records:......."
If you are finished with your test flight hours but want to, say, test it
further doing spins because those weren't done in the initial test period,
you are restricted once again to your test area for that flight testing.
I didn't make this up, "they" did: it's in the regs.
"When the test program is done, you will understand your airplane better
than anyone on the face of the earth. You will know how far you can push it
and how to fly it to get the best preformance from it. You will also have
developed a level of piloting precision, aeronautical knowledge, and cool,
balanced judgement you never expected to attain. This is the mark of the
test pilot."
Vaughan Askue "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft"
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying (expanding the envelope)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Air Hammer intead of Riveter |
> Conclusion: Air hammer can drive acceptable rivets but real [rivet] gun is easier
> to use.
I second this. I used a $35 Chicago Pneumatic CP711 air hammer for my
tail and most of the wings and it works fine. The trigger can be
"teased" somewhat but it requires a very small movement of the trigger.
Then I bought a $175 2x riviet gun from Avery and I like it better
because of the more controllable trigger, ie. larger trigger movement to
get a desired response. Other than the trigger I see no difference.
Stroke length and blows per minute are similar.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Wisian" <av8r(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Strike |
Richard
Wanted to ask off line. We own a C-170 and looking for another 0-300 do you
know of one personally. please reply off line.
Thanks
Ron Wisian
-----Original Message-----
From: Zeidman, Richard B <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com>
Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 6:48 AM
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Strike
>
>Do any of the listers have any news on the Lycoming factory strike. I
>think it has been on for 4 or 5 months. Is Lycoming still delivering
>engines? Maybe Van should look at Continental engines for his planes. (I
>think I know where I could find a good O300).
>
>Rich Zeidman
>waiting for wing kit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
For those of you that might be swayed into using a product contrary to the
manufacturers' labeling, don't do it, as your plane will fall from the sky or
corrode into oblivion. It may be illegal in your area to use a product in a
manner not consistent with its labeling.
You must follow the printed directions and be a professional (read qualified)
painter to use most of this stuff. It is just too difficult for "normal"
people to grasp the finer points of paint application. Airplanes should only
be built in factories.
Like Van says, "Just build the plane".
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
<34DB8715.E220F379(at)ix.netcom.com> <3.0.5.32.19980207002819.0084e840(at)pop.flash.net>
Gil Alexander wrote:
>
>
> >
> >> Where do you get this information from? quite frankly I don't believe
> >> this is true.
> >> --
> >> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>
> Jerry ... frankly, this one is in the FARs ....:^)
>
> *** snip from FAR search for 'experimantal' and 'range' - one hit ***
>
> Sec. 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating limitations.
>
> *** snip ***
>
> (b) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate
> outside of an area assigned by the Administrator until it is shown that--
> (1) The aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and
> throughout all the maneuvers to be executed; and
> (2) The aircraft has no hazardous operating characteristics or design
> features.
>
> *** more snipped ***
>
> *** end FAR section ***
>
> It's the bit about "...until it is shown that..." and "...all the
> maneuvers to be executed" that MUST be shown before you can leave the
> intial restricted area. If you say you have a plane that can pull 6g in a
> tight turn, you must show that during testing - and presumably log it in
> the logbook.
>
> Gil (it's in the FARs) Alexander
Frankly it is not in the FAR's
Well Gil normally I have alot of respect for what you say, but your
are putting your own interpretation on this one. I well know what
the FAR's say. (flying since 1965, building and flying since 1970,and
instructing since 1976) Tell me how are the guys that don't have G
meters going to demonstrate 6gs? All the FARs are saying is that you
must demonstrate each maneuver that you intend to do in phase II.
They don't say fly the airplane to the design g limits.
You can interpret them any way you wish, I just don't want to see
builders going out and thinking that they have to test their airplane
to the limit.Some peoples bodies cannot even stand 6gs we certainly
don't want them passing out while testing their nice new airplane
do we!!
--
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry thornton <jthorn(at)sbt.infi.net> |
| Subject: | Primer Removal/Overcoat |
Listers:
While priming (zinc chromate) the interior fuselage parts on my 6A, I
got carried away and continued using the green stuff on parts internal
to the cabin (F605) where I actually had planned to use a white epoxy
primer. Can I overcoat the zinc chromate with epoxy primer or do I need
to scuff up or completely remove the zinc chromate first?
Thanks in advance for any assistance (Don M. need not respond).
Jerry Thornton (received finish kit 3 days ago, 4 months after order)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacquelyn eastburn" <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wavy elevator leading edge. |
Paul, as Jim in the above post said, just use some extra pop rivets. this
problem is not too un-common.
Jim & Jackie Eastburn
RV-8 Ser. # 80079
Hillsboro, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacquelyn eastburn" <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Hammer instead of Riveter |
Paul, your going to hear a lot about this one. an air hammer would be one
of the fastest ways to ruin your kit and send your frustration level
through the ceiling. NEVER-NEVER cut yourself short on good tools. you wont
regret it.
Jim & Jackie Eastburn
RV-8 Ser. # 80079
Hillsboro, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
<< Mike-
It sounds as though you had a prop strike under power and, if you did, I
would strongly recommend you get the engine crankshaft examined for
damage!! Any prop strike, particularly under power, needs to be examined
thoroughly! My sympathies go out to you. It's not a cheap proposition!
Bill Shaw >>
We had this in mind at the flight school I operated- all the Champs & Cubs had
wood props. In the event of a strike, the prop was toast, but the crank was
fine. Saved me large $$$ twice. I'd bet the crank is fine. A trusted engine
man told me that Lyc cranks are v flexible in the nose area. By all means,
check the flange. If it dials OK, fly it.
For your next prop: Sterbas are inexpensive. Aymar-Demuth guarantees your
satisfaction, or your $$ back.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Best of RVator |
It is my understanding, as a customer of the RV-ation Bookstore that the new
edition of "18 Years of the RV-ATOR" will be ready to ship around March. I
believe that anyone who pre-orders it will get it at the current price. You
can check it out at www.rvbookstore.com
Happy building.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
<34DB8715.E220F379(at)ix.netcom.com>
<3.0.5.32.19980207002819.0084e840(at)pop.flash.net>
>
>Gil Alexander wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> Where do you get this information from? quite frankly I don't believe
>> >> this is true.
>> >> --
>> >> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>>
>> Jerry ... frankly, this one is in the FARs ....:^)
>>
>> *** snip from FAR search for 'experimantal' and 'range' - one hit ***
>>
>> Sec. 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating
limitations.
>>
>> *** snip ***
>>
>> (b) No person may operate an aircraft that has an experimental certificate
>> outside of an area assigned by the Administrator until it is shown that--
>> (1) The aircraft is controllable throughout its normal range of speeds and
>> throughout all the maneuvers to be executed; and
>> (2) The aircraft has no hazardous operating characteristics or design
>> features.
>>
>> *** more snipped ***
>>
>> *** end FAR section ***
>>
>> It's the bit about "...until it is shown that..." and "...all the
>> maneuvers to be executed" that MUST be shown before you can leave the
>> intial restricted area. If you say you have a plane that can pull 6g in a
>> tight turn, you must show that during testing - and presumably log it in
>> the logbook.
>>
>> Gil (it's in the FARs) Alexander
>
>Frankly it is not in the FAR's
>
> Well Gil normally I have alot of respect for what you say, but your
> are putting your own interpretation on this one. I well know what
> the FAR's say. (flying since 1965, building and flying since 1970,and
> instructing since 1976) Tell me how are the guys that don't have G
> meters going to demonstrate 6gs? All the FARs are saying is that you
> must demonstrate each maneuver that you intend to do in phase II.
> They don't say fly the airplane to the design g limits.
> You can interpret them any way you wish, I just don't want to see
> builders going out and thinking that they have to test their airplane
> to the limit.Some peoples bodies cannot even stand 6gs we certainly
> don't want them passing out while testing their nice new airplane
> do we!!
Jerry,
... the intent was not to say that limit load testing had to be done
(in flight or otherwise), just that if you want to perform 6g tight turns
(or any other maneuver) you have to demonstrate those exact maneuvers in
the initial test area.
If you like to do 6g tight turns, then the installation of a G meter
would be a good idea ...:^) and that maneuver has to be demonstrated in
the test area.
I guess what I should have said is that if you want to perform any
aerobatic maneuvers after the initial test period, then those same
maneuvers MUST be demonstrated during the test period. The actual g pulled
is not the point, but the exact maneuver is. However some of the more
'violent' maneuvers might imply certain g loading.
You are correct, don't go out and fly to the g-limits if you are not
going to pull any high-g aerobatics.
... Gil (will try and be clearer next time) Alexander
>
>--
>--
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>
------------------------------------
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
>>Before we spend piles of money on avionics and instruments to make our
>>homebuilt aircraft IFR capable it may be prudent
>>to think long and hard about the actual type of flying you intend to do
>>with your aircraft.
I plan to build an RV-6A - and to use it for (PLANNED) VFR only. Can someone
with IFR experience advise me on the following approach, perhaps correct my
"waffle" logic???
My current plan is to equip the panel with extensive VFR equipment, and to
install "stuff" for IFR capability, including suitable redundancy. This
"stuff" may be of questionable quality, non-certified, non-maintained, etc.
I may (or may not) keep IFR current. MY (faulty???) logic here is to use the
IFR "stuff" as a contingency. For example, if I were a sky diver I would
dive with the plan of only using the primary chute - and would not dive
otherwise. But I would have a contingency (2nd chute). The IFR "stuff"
would only be a contingency.
This approach means that IF I ever got into an OOPS condition I could use
IFR as a contingency, knowing that I'll be able to land without risking VFR
minimums, etc., but alive to face a friendly "chat" with the FAA and a lot
of paper. Thanks for any help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Wait, wait, wait, WAIT. Geeze!
>Tell me how are the guys that don't have G meters going to demonstrate 6Gs?
Well, they won't know unless it is by interpolation: a 6G turn is such and
such. It is probably a good thing to have a G meter when flight testing,
just so you'll know and can document what the airplane has done. Not all
airplanes have all-cylinder CHT probes, but it would give you more information.
>All the FARs are saying is that you must demonstrate each maneuver that
you >intend to do in phase II. They don't say fly the airplane to the
design g >limits.
EXACTLY! If you have no intention of using the design limits of the
airplane, you don't have to. But, if you certify the airplane at 6 Gs, then
that has to have been demonstrated during flight testing.
>You can interpret them any way you wish, I just don't want to see
>builders going out and thinking that they have to test their airplane
>to the limit.
Right. You do not HAVE to. You don't have to do tail slides. Or even
spins, if you don't want to. But if you intend to do them at some time
during Phase II (the phase that comes after the flight test time is flown
off), then they have to have been done and documented during the test flight
period. Period.
Just 4G turns, for crying out loud, feel weird enough. I may only get up to
4Gs during my test flight period. I will document such. I have no inverted
system and, thus, will not be doing inverted flight in Phase II. Is the
airplane capable of inverted flight? You bet. But I won't be documenting
in my test flight period that I did any and thus, cannot legally do inverted
flight in Phase II.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying (gently expanding the envelope)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CHink11769(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Variprime--ENOUGH! |
Hi Don,
I'm sorry that you think this is a pissing contest. I think this is about
posting accurate information to the RV-List about the proper use of Variprime
and nothing more. The RV-List provides allot of good info to allot of
builders it should be providing accurate information on the use of Variprime.
With any luck we can put this puppy to bed once and for all.
Curtis Hinkley
RV8
<<
GV and CH--
If you two are gonna have a pissing contest, would you please do it
off-list?
--Don McNamara
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
I too come from the humid Gulf Coast though I temporarily live in Phoenix
(where I am high and dry without my project, oh well) and used Variprime on my
both my steel and alum. parts. Despite the humidity and water none of my
alclad or my primed alum or steel parts show any sign of corrosion or rusting.
Unprimed steel parts show immediate rust. I did get many of the weldments
powdercoated such as the engine mount and controls. I believe the Variprime is
an adequate primer for the interior of our RVs and is a good undercoat. There
probably is a better material to be used alone than Variprime and I wish I new
what it is. You know that I work at a foundation restoring an older factory
airplane that is mostly alum construction. These ac were not primed or
corrosion proofed at all and despite their being considerably older than
myself they often show little corrosion. Of course, some do have heavy
corrosion and intergranular type in the extrusions. Most of these ac have
spent the majority of their lives tied down out in the rain on the back row
forgotton. I figure a Variprimed RV regularly hangared should last an eon
(small exaggeration). Do not worry it will be okay. Hope to finish my 4 and
build a 6 when I get back to civilization and a hanger. My Kfox misses me.
Oh, do not move to Az despite the great weather here because there is no
hanger space at all here---absolutely none and people here do not know the
word share like we do back home. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Sick'em GV -gettem. I with you on this --Variprime is ok and normal people can
build a nice airplane. I trust a homebuilder anytime over a Professional and I
guess I am both so I should know. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin edge rolling |
<34D1304E.91CEDEC2(at)pec.co.nz>
| From: | daviddla(at)Juno.com (Blah ba Blah) |
Hi folks, Do I need to roll the edges of the wing skins where they butt
up to each other to prevent the edge from lifing? Thanks, Dave
RV-6A wings
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
> It sounds as though you had a prop strike under power and, if you did, I
> would strongly recommend you get the engine crankshaft examined for
> damage!! Any prop strike, particularly under power, needs to be examined
> thoroughly! My sympathies go out to you. It's not a cheap proposition!
> Bill Shaw >>
>We had this in mind at the flight school I operated- all the Champs & Cubs
had
>wood props. In the event of a strike, the prop was toast, but the crank was
>fine. Saved me large $$$ twice. I'd bet the crank is fine. A trusted engine
>man told me that Lyc cranks are v flexible in the nose area. By all means,
>check the flange. If it dials OK, fly it.
>Check six!
>Mark
Even though you are "experimenting" with your RV, prudence (and the FAA)
require you to comply with ADs. The one in question in this scenario is:
AD91-14-22.
This AD deals with any "sudden stoppage", and requires the bolt at the back
of the crank and the pin that drives the accessory gears be replaced after
any "sudden stoppage". Lycoming and their lawyers define "sudden stoppage"
as *ANY* contact of the prop with a non gaseous substance during operation.
So no matter how minor a prop strike (wood props, too) to any kind of
terra firma (mud, sand, grass field, etc.) the AD is in effect.
Bolt, pin and crank lock plate, $10. Great time to check those Oil Pump
gears with the Accessory cover off. Gear set $300.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Bill,
Thanks for your reply.
More than likely, the RV6 will be IFR capable (no point in not being
able to use the IFR rating!).
Sam
Bill Shaw wrote:
>
>
> Sam -
> To fly legally fly IFR you must have your pitot-static system, your
> transponder, and your altimeter recertified every 24 calendar months. In
> addition, you must verify the accuracy of the VOR radios every 30 days
> (There is a limit of 4 or 6 degrees depending upon where and under what
> conditions it's checked). If you are going with a certified IFR GPS unit, I
> am not sure what the regulations are at this point.
> As far as what the DAR requires, I think you should discuss that with the
> DAR. It seems as though I've seen a post on this to the effect that you
> should notify the DAR of your intentions when he intially looks at your
> aircraft, and he will tell you what is expected of you and the aircraft in
> order to fly IFR.
>
> Hope this doesn't discourage you, I plan to make mine IFR when the time
> comes.
>
> Bill Shaw
> bs(at)cbtek.com
>
> What minimum equipment did the DAR require and what was involved in
> receiving IFR certification? (Standard IFR equipment. i.e., VOR,
> Glideslope, GPS?-expensive!!, ADF??, Loran??(It's not dead yet!), DG, HSI?
>
> Is biannual recertification of the pitot system required? (Yes every 24
> calendar months!)
>
> Even though I am still early in my project, I am trying to decide
> whether or not to make the RV6 IFR capable. The amount of stuff required
> to be loaded into the panel will play into the decision.
>
> Thanks in advance for your replies!
>
> Sam Buchanan
> sbuc(at)traveller.com
> "The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg farings |
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
> The fiberglas fairing is flexible (and attached using 2" of syntactic foam to
> the top and bottom of the gear leg, allowing the center to flex freely) and
> the aluminum fairing is rigid and difficult to support without it crimping.
Do the wood/fiberglass leg stiffeners still have to be used with the
fiberglass gear leg fairings??? And would three fairings be purchased
for the -6A?
Will Cretsinger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Yes. An a+p will be checking my crank Monday or Tuesday. It
only got about 4 inches of each blade tip and didn't even stop,
but, I guess it is still considered a sudden stoppage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing skin edge rolling |
<19980207.172350.3726.0.DavidDLA(at)juno.com>
yes
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
I seriously doubt any damage was done to your engine but dial it out to be
safe. Wood props rarely cause damage but you were running your engine well
above idle so it is possible there was damage. Without more to go on I would
have to say ck it out carefully but do not expect to find anything wrong.
Fingers crossed for you. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
><< He
> seemed very knowledgable and was good to do business with (I disagree
> with his opinion on prop. bolt torque values though). >>
>
>
>What were his opinion on the prop bolt specs ? I too has good results
>with his
>prop but don't recall if I even ask him how to mount the prop.
>
>RV-6A flying
>75TX
>
>
>
He recommends bolt torques that are well above the limit for the AN bolts
that we use for prop. bolts. I don't remember the specific #'s
but I think they were way too high.
I torque my 3/8 prop bolts to between 20 and 22 ft lbs ( speced for 18 ft
lbs.). Seems like I remember him recommending between 30 to 35 ft lbs.
for the 3/8 bolts.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garrett V. Smith" <GARRETTSMITH(at)compuserve.com> |
Hello again:
Judging from the rapid responses regarding IFR RV's, many of you have put a
lot of thought into this. My intent was to spark some debate, mission
accomplished.
Ernest asked if he was using 'faulty logic' by putting in a artificial
horizon and a d.g., the answer is, an emphatic 'no'.
IFR contingency is obviously better than creating a hole in the ground
with your airplane.
Numerous posts have mentioned the obvious need for proper planning, the
ability to pop up through a thin layer or do a cloud break procedure is a
requirement for some, my concern is, forecasting is inexact and thin layers
can turn into thick layers.
Someone also mentioned the excellent climb performance of the RV and how
you can use this performance to get out of some
situations...I suppose so, as long as you don't use performance as a
replacement for good planning.
I have received some inquiries as to the validity of instrument training,
this question goes hand in hand with equipment selection.
The aircraft and the pilot should be considered an entire system, the
system will perform up to the weakest link in the system,
and no further. The weak link could be the pilot or the aircraft depending
on the conditions you are in at the time.
I said:
>Actual IFR flying IS different than what Van
> designed the RV for, picture yourself in your aircraft at night in icing
Hal asks:
Could we get a quotation from Van's or whatever *FACT* there is to
substantiate
this?
Please refer to Vans info pack, page 5, under the heading THE AIRPLANES,
first paragraph, and I quote.
"In keeping with the light sport aircraft philosophy, our prototypes were
equipped with simple VFR instrumentation, a single
comm radio, a LORAN or GPS, and a transponder. "
Vans words,and I agree. But the bottom line is, put whatever 'stuff' you
want in it, it's your airplane.
I welcome friendly comments, respond to me personally if you have any more,
this is just my 2 cents worth. I'm up to 4 now.
Best Regards to all,
Garrett Smith
Calgary,Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
Mike,
I think it requires more than just a check from an A&P - I am under the
impression that the Crank has to be sent out to be inspected, I just had the
right engine in my Seneca Overhauled and there were 2 Hair Line Cracks in the
Crank - not visable to the naked eye, but it would not pass - so $3600.00
later I have a certified Crank.
Best of Luck
And Yes Keep Your Finger's Crossed
It do get expensive.
BSivori(at)AOL.COM
N929RV ( Reserved )
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
February 02, 1998 - February 08, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ee