RV-Archive.digest.vol-eg
February 14, 1998 - February 21, 1998
backrivetting, so why not do it? I found that my back rivetted top skins did
come out better than most of my conventional rivetted work. Not to say that
I am overly upset with the quality of that work, but if you can do something
that has the potential to improve your workmanship for a minimal cost, do it.
A side benefit of backrivetting wing skins is that it takes little to no
skill at the bucking bar to do great work. For conventional rivetting I must
rely on a friend to help, as the wife and kids have proven to be not very
proficient with gun or bar. But my 15 year old daughter bucked the top skins
on my wings. Just wish my conventionally rivetted leading edges looked as
good as the top skins.
Mike Wills
RV-4(fuse ordered)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
Is it really neccessary to backrivet
>the wings, or can you do an qually nice job with the swivel set?
>
>
>Alan Carroll
>RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Subject: | RV-4 main longeron rivet spacing |
Fellow Listers and RV-4 experts:
In reference to drawing 31 showing the fuselage skin rivet spacing. My
question concerns the type rivets and spacing attaching the side skins to
the main longerons (especially from the firewall rearward to F-404). Are
these #4 rivets spaced 2" apart? I have heard others have decreased this
spacing and used #3 rivets instead for a better appearance (especially from
the F407 aft to the tail). What have others done and what do you recommend?
Thanks,
Doug
*******************************************
Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
Subject: | New lightweight radio/intercom |
For those that are looking for a lightweight radio/intercom there was one on
display at our 'Oshkosh' here in New Zealand. A nice compact unit only
weighing 550g or about a pound - haven't found out if it is just mono or stereo.
Web page is http://www.netlink.co.nz/~gliding/microair.html
Usual disclaimer applies here!
L. Coats ZK-RVL RV6 flying :-) 228.3hr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 main longeron rivet spacing |
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
>
> Fellow Listers and RV-4 experts:
>
> In reference to drawing 31 showing the fuselage skin rivet spacing. My
> question concerns the type rivets and spacing attaching the side skins to
> the main longerons (especially from the firewall rearward to F-404). Are
> these #4 rivets spaced 2" apart? I have heard others have decreased this
> spacing and used #3 rivets instead for a better appearance (especially from
> the F407 aft to the tail). What have others done and what do you recommend?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
Doug
I used #4 rivets and a 2" spacing. If I had to do it over agian
I would use #3 rivets and reduce the spacing, it looks nicer.
The downside of this is drilling and bucking the additional rivets
in the rear of the fuselage.
Good luck
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)allways.net> |
Subject: | Re: drilling thin tubing (spacers & bearing) |
charset="us-ascii"
> Anyone have any hints for drilling the spacers & brass bearing for the
>aileron mounts? They just spin in every clamp I can devise, getting
>rather deeply _scored_ (not scratched) in the process.
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
> President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
> RV-8 80091 Mounting 1st Aileron
I took some soft, thick aluminum and made covers for my bench vise. Took
about five minutes and works great. Holds just about anything without
marking it up.
Don Mack RV-6A (just hung the wings to mount the landing gear, does that
look NICE)
donmack(at)allways.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | duane dickson <ddickson(at)hubwest.com> |
I think this message was in connection with SISNA switching me from their mail,sisna.com
mail server to mail.hubwest.com server.
This caused me and the service provider pain and inconveniance. Sorry.
-------------------------------------
Name: duane dickson
E-mail: ddickson(at)hubwest.com
-------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:Flying |
>
>More notes from the test flying.
> SNIP
>You can also hold her in a stall,
>wings level, coming down stalled, wings kept level with rudder OR ailerons
>(they are effective all the way throught the stall) and instant recovery
>with neutral stick.
You are correct that you can control your RV in a stall with the ailerons,
however this is a bad habit to develop. I am not saying that you should not
explore this area, however, many flyers fail to understand the danger in
recovering from stalls in this manuver.
When you raise a wing with the aileron you increase the angle of attack on
the wing with a down aileron. In some aircraft or some configurations this
can cause the "remainder" of the wing to stall. In certain airplanes this
will result in an exciting ride. If the ball is not center the ride gets
worse.
Learning and practicing the old and seldom practiced falling leaf will help
overcome the instinct that most pilots develop in well mannered airplanes
(RV's and C-150s) to raise the stalled wing with aileron. In the wrong bird
or configuration this can have deadly consequences. The falling leaf will
train the proper response of raising the wing with rudder while keeping the
ailerons neutral.
If you happen to not believe this, try it in a T-6 or a DC-3. Once is all
it takes.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
PS if your instructor says "what's a falling leaf," get a new (older)
instructor
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Subject: | f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
Listers,
This is probably a really stupid question, but... I've got to ask it
Between the 604 and 605 bulkheads the longerons bow, the f-620 armrests
bow, does the f-615 (L & R) seat rib bow? I keep looking at this and
wonder how the skin will fit if it doesn't bow. The plans show a bow,
but pictures in the manual seem straight. I should have taken more
pictures of the QB kit at Oshkosh last year.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A (pondering bowing f-615, cutting flanges off of to wide baggage
floor ribs)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Backriveting the Wings |
> Bear in mind that you will wind up using method A) when you put on
> your last skins because you have no choice! We put on our top skins
> first using method B) but now that we are done I can't see any
> difference between A) and B).
My wife and I used method B (back riveting) with Avery's set. I was
running the gun and had a real hard time making good shop heads. I
rebent the back rivet set and this helped, but it was still the hardest
riveting I had done. On the other wing we started the same way. I got
fed up and decided to go to plan A, I knew I could do this. My wife has
been the bucker as I had figured bucking would be the easy part. Turns
out that my wife hated bucking so I let her have the rivet gun. With no
practice and on the top skins of my wings she started riveting. We
messed up one rivet (my fault) and she will never hold a bucking bar
again. She says running the gun is really easy, so she guns and I buck.
I can not tell the difference between the two riveting types on the
wings.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: drilling thin tubing (spacers & bearing) |
Brian Huffaker wrote:
>
> Anyone have any hints for drilling the spacers & brass bearing for the
> aileron mounts? They just spin in every clamp I can devise, getting
> rather deeply _scored_ (not scratched) in the process.
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
> President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
> RV-8 80091 Mounting 1st Aileron
Brian
I am not sure why you would be drilling bearings and spacers on your aileron
mounts. On my mounts the bearings are already in place, in fact the hole mount
is
prefabricated. On the brackets that mount to the aileron I predrilled them taking
the dimensions from the plans as gospel. When fitting the aileron and brackets
to
the mounts, I calculated how long the spacer needed to be and made these from
the
tubing supplied for this. Cut the tubing (spacer) a little longer than needed.
Chuck the tubing in your drill and take it to the belt sander. With the sander
running and drill running you get a real nice finished end on the tube (spacer)
Measure with calipers as you go and soon you will have a perfectly fitting spacer.
Gary Zilik
RV- 6A (building the fuselage)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: drilling thin tubing (spacers & bearing) |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>
><<
>
> Anyone have any hints for drilling the spacers & brass bearing for
>the
> aileron mounts? They just spin in every clamp I can devise, getting
> rather deeply _scored_ (not scratched) in the process.
> >>
I assume with the brass bearing you mean the one for the RV-* aileron
bellcrank (I never received your orig post just a reply someone else
sent)?
The inside diameter (I.D.) is best opened up with a reamer of the correct
size for the bolt that has to slip through. A drill bit grabs to much
and causes the problem you are describing.
As for the spacers... If you mean the ones that are cut from the hard
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Backriveting the Wings |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I agree with most of what has been said about the two possible methods
for riveting wing skins with a couple of exceptions.
We can't say that universally back riveting is no major quality
difference to the normal method. Remember not every RV builder develops
the same level of skill as another. And to some the work they are doing
looks real good until they see what is possible with other techniques.
I agree that someone can do as good a job front riveting as they can back
riveting, but not everyone can. As discussed already it is easy to do
and is particularly ideal when using inexperienced helpers.
In our shop we do it on the top main wing skins for 2 reasons.
1, We can doing the best job possible with out a lot of effort, and have
very little chance of doing any damage that would be embarrassing (We do
want you customers to be impressed so that you will buy our kits ;-) )
2. We can do it as fast as possible. Takes us less than 1 hour to put
both main top skins on a wing.
Give it a try.
Also, I mentioned on a previous thread that we modify the Avery back
rivet set by heating it with a torch and put a second bend directly
behind the first one. This gives it a double off-set and keeps the
driving action directly parallel to the rivet. Makes it work much
easier.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 9:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: f-615 seat rib RV-6A
>
>Between the 604 and 605 bulkheads the longerons bow, the f-620 armrests
>bow, does the f-615 (L & R) seat rib bow?
>Gary Zilik
Gary,
I just put a straight edge to my riveted fuselage and F-615 is straight --
in truth, mine is concave inward about 1/16!
It is good practice to use the arm rest to make the longeron curve because
then you have a good shot at the canopy frame fitting.
When I got to the F-623 things got hard to visualize. It's placement is not
critical. but do not use up much space with rivets in hanging it at the aft
end. Do the final attaching after you have bent the curve in the tab and
have overlapped all the skins. There is a lot that comes together there and
you want to have freedom to place rivets wherever they need to go.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Backriveting the Wings |
>
>
> Has anyone "front" riveted their wing skins using Avery's swivel set?
> Alan Carroll
> RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
I 'Front' riveted my left wing top and bottom,helped a friend do top
skin on his RV8 and we were both very pleased with the results,not one
bad rivet,used the Avery swivel set,wouldn't be without one. First time
builder.There are old timers here that laugh at the swivel set ,but then
they are not doing my riveting.!!
Derek Reed Grants Pass OR RV6A Finishing wings.
>
>
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
writes:
>
>Listers,
>
>This is probably a really stupid question, but... I've got to ask it
>
>Between the 604 and 605 bulkheads the longerons bow, the f-620
>armrests
>bow, does the f-615 (L & R) seat rib bow? I keep looking at this and
>wonder how the skin will fit if it doesn't bow. The plans show a bow,
>but pictures in the manual seem straight. I should have taken more
>pictures of the QB kit at Oshkosh last year.
>
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A (pondering bowing f-615, cutting flanges off of to wide baggage
>floor ribs)
>
>
>
Not stupid at all. You have to look at the plans closely but it does
show that the seat rib also should be curved to approximate the curve on
the arm rest.
Fear not builders if you already have skinned but didn't do so (My
personal RV-6A which was the first one I built has straight seat ribs)
the only effect it really has on the airplane is a different trim of the
wing root fairings.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: drilling thin tubing (spacers & bearing) |
<< (just hung the wings to mount the landing gear, does that
look NICE) >>
I'll bet that really, really does. It'll be much easier to imagine it flying
now!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
Subject: | Re: f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
> Between the 604 and 605 bulkheads the longerons bow, the f-620 armrests
> bow, does the f-615 (L & R) seat rib bow? I keep looking at this and
> wonder how the skin will fit if it doesn't bow. The plans show a bow,
> but pictures in the manual seem straight. I should have taken more
> pictures of the QB kit at Oshkosh last year.
Gary, good question.
The side skin, once against the longeron and arm rest, will define the
curvature of the outboard seat ribs. The outboard seat ribs nail down the
fore/aft dimension between wing spar sockets, so try to get the proper
curvature in the outboard seat rib prior to drilling both ends.
Also, unless the parts have been corrected, the flange which will support
the seat bottoms will need to be shimmed around 1/8 - 3/16". Once the seat
ribs are all drilled to the 604 and 605 bulkheads, hold a straight edge
laterally across the flanges which will support the seat bottoms to
determine if something needs to be done. It might be easier to do
something now rather than later. I shimmed mine later with wood strips.
Have others had this problem?
Alex Peterson
6A, Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Backriveting the Wings |
<34E664CF.979B4BBB(at)bewellnet.com>
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
With
>no
>practice and on the top skins of my wings she started riveting. We
>messed up one rivet (my fault) and she will never hold a bucking bar
>again. She says running the gun is really easy, so she guns and I
>buck.
>I can not tell the difference between the two riveting types on the
>wings.
>
>
Just curious, are you using a swivel rivet set?
My wife also drove most of the rivets in our airplane (except some of the
fuselage, I'll explane in a minute) using a swivel rivet set.
Looks real good. We won a few workmanship awards.
IMO back riveting has the edge when you get to skins that have more of a
curved shape than you have with wing skins, such as the fuselage turtle
deck. When you drive the conventional way on a curved skin using a flat
set, it can tend to pound a small flat on the highly curved surface.
While I was in the Philippines helping them build the first 2 RV-8 quick
build airframes I introduced them to back riveting.
Every guy in the shop was laughing at me... for about 5 minutes.
They all then became instant converts.
I believe all of the fuselage riveting is now done this way and I believe
you can tell a difference if you were to compare to the fuselages before
that.
On the RV-6(A) kit the tail cone has thin J stringer material that
distorts more during riveting that the .063 angle that is in the RV-4 and
RV-8 if you drive on it too hard. Back riveting works very good here
also. And it is accessible enough to use the standard back rivet set
with the spring thing on the end.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:Flying |
>>You can also hold her in a stall, wings level, coming down stalled, wings
kept >>level with rudder OR ailerons (they are effective all the way
throught the >>stall)....
>You are correct that you can control your RV in a stall with the ailerons,
>however this is a bad habit to develop.
Point here is that this is such a well designed aircraft that you HAVE
aileron control in a stall, not that you should USE aileron control in a
stall. Some aircraft lose aileron control early in the development of a
stall. This is one of the things you discover while in the TEST PHASE. :>)
>If your instructor says "what's a falling leaf," get a new (older)
>instructor
Wow! Haven't heard anyone mention THAT maneuver in a while.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: re: cell phones in aircraft |
This morning while accompying group of cub scouts on a tour of my favorite
tower, ATC told me about a pilot last week that lost radio communications
and didn't know lost communication procedures...
so he called the tower on his cell phone...
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 8:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: re: cell phones in aircraft
>
>
>>
>>I will be getting a copy of the FCC rules from him in the mail. If you
>>want a copy, e-mail me, and I will e-mail back with it attached.
>>
>>I said I WAS going to install it, no longer, and the fine is $10000.
>
> Cell phone frequencies are indeed allocated to land-mobile service
> only and it's an FCC issue, not an FAA one. Therefore, it's
> a vilolation of a regulation to use one from an airborne aircraft.
> Now, could you use one while on taxi from active to the ramp to
> call home, call for fuel, etc? Certainly. Just can't have daylight
> under the wheels.
>
> Would it be prudent to carry a hand held or have an installed
> cell phone for situations where it's use might mitigate lost
> of property, or worse yet, loss of life? Certainly. The FCC
> is like any other branch of government with inforcement
> responsabilities. The LIKELYHOOD that any single transgression
> of the rules will be (1) noticed, (2) complained about, (3)
> acted upon by an enforcer who already has too much on his plate
> is extremely small. Use of a cellphone in blatant, obvious and
> noticed disregard for the rules is inviting the wrath of
> government. Responsable use within the rules with occasional
> "transgressions" when warranted are most unlikely to bring
> you grief. Given the capabilities and growing coverage of cell
> phones and their technology, I'd not go flying without it
> (if I owned one).
>
> It's an issue similar to the ELT's that were once sold to
> hikers and backpackers . . . obviously not for the original
> intended purpose but if used only for the most obvious emergency
> situations, it's unlikely to get the user in hot water. Now,
> the REAL crime is the fact that a back-packer laying at the
> bottom of a drop with a broken leg thinks the calvary is
> going to come riding over the hill as soon as the switch is
> flipped on his little yellow box. I believe a recent AOPA
> article told us that ELTs yield their intended usefulness in
> less than 10% of aircraft accidents where an ELT is installed.
> But that's another problem . . . My best recommendation, trash
> your ELT and buy a cell phone.
>
> Now, if you wanted to INSTALL a cell phone in your certified
> ship, the FAA would have you drawn, sawed and quartered for
> not installing a TSO'ed model . . . it matters not how many
> lives might be saved. So use only HAND HELD devices in your
> certified iron, and don't plug it into the cigar lighter.
> In some FAA jurisdictions this is tantamount to an "installation".
>
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
> < If you do, >
> < What you've always done, >
> < You will be, >
> < What you've always been. >
> =================================
> <http://www.aeroelectric.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | Hanging the wings (was "drilling thin tubing (spacer |
s & bearing)")
Don,
I'm a few weeks away from hanging the wings for drilling the landing
gear. How did it go for you? Did everything go together the first
time? Did it take six guys all day?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Drilling side skins to fuselage
-22 degrees this morning
-----Original Message----- (just hung the wings to mount the
landing gear, does that
look NICE)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
Mine are straight/flat and do not bow. When you get the side skins on
it all looks fine. The curves at the main longeron and along the side
all taper down to a more or less flat and straight bottom.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----Between the 604 and 605 bulkheads the
longerons bow, the f-620 armrests
bow, does the f-615 (L & R) seat rib bow?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | FW: Question: forming aft end of F-670 side skins |
Hello listers,
Here is a message I sent to Van's this morning. Any comments from those
who have been there before me?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Fuselage in a jig
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Soule
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 1998 6:35 AM
Subject: Question: forming aft end of F-670 side skins
Hello Van's Aircraft,
I have fitted the side skin F-670 to my fuselage. I formed the curve or
cone-shape in the aft end and finally got it to lay flat (more or less)
on the F-623.
Forming sheet metal is not something I do well. You should see the body
work on some of my old cars! This aft part of the F-670 looks a bit
like a cave man made it with stone tools.
My question is this: Can I wrap this part of the side skin to the
bottom of the airplane, that is, covering the bottom skin?
The plans call for me to put the F-670 under the bottom skin. The way I
made it, though, I am not sure the bottom skin will look good trying to
cover the messy F-670.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Builder's Number 24293
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Subject: | Re: Dimple Tape Question |
I know a couple of the hangar buddies of the man who developed
this dimple tape. They say it works. Frank Smith (built several
rv's) is supposed to try it on his constant speed prop this week
and let me know the results. He said, of the one's who have
tried it on rv type aircraft, most of the results was seen with
the tape applied to the prop. The tape applied to the leading
edges of the wings and tail surfaces showed lesser gains. A man
with a stearman supposedly tried it on his wing struts and picked
up 10 mph. I will try it as soon as I can get my hands on some.
I trust Frank to give me the straight forward scoop on this
stuff, as he does with everyhting else rv related. I get excited
about "free" speed, too.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 main longeron rivet spacing |
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
> Fellow Listers and RV-4 experts:
>
> In reference to drawing 31 showing the fuselage skin rivet spacing. My
> question concerns the type rivets and spacing attaching the side skins to
> the main longerons (especially from the firewall rearward to F-404).
>
Doug: I wouldn't worry too much about the spacing from the firewall to the
instrument panel F403. There are a bunch of nutplates that go in this area, and
probably one -4 rivet between each one would be sufficient. You will also have
several #8 screws there. This can be laid out when you install the top skin from
the firewall to the instrument panel.From the instrument panel back I would use
-3
rivets at 1" to 1.25" spacing. I have seen others built this way and they look
good. I didn't do it this way, but I wish I had.
Happy Flying ---- Carroll Bird
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:Flying |
>
>
>You are correct that you can control your RV in a stall with the ailerons,
>however this is a bad habit to develop. I am not saying that you should
not
>explore this area, however, many flyers fail to understand the danger in
>recovering from stalls in this manuver.
>
Mike,
In the first paragraph of my post (above) is was my intent to distinguish
between flight test and flying, evidently I did not successfully acomplish
that, sorry. My only point was that MOST people I fly with do not have a
clue as to why this is a bad habit.
I have been flying for 20 yrs and just recently got my instructor rating. I
have been terrified how students and low timers pick up small statements or
bad habits, and incorporate them in their flying, when asked where did you
learn that they reply "from you......."
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
On my QB they are straight.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>Between the 604 and 605 bulkheads the longerons bow, the f-620 armrests
>bow, does the f-615 (L & R) seat rib bow? >
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A (pondering bowing f-615, cutting flanges off of to wide baggage
>floor ribs)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Dimple Tape Question |
<< Does anyone know anything about this? Is it "pie-in-the-sky"? Where can I
buy this "dimple tape"? >>
This was discussed ad nauseum recently. Tony can be reached at 504-831-1816.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Sketch SK-103, where are you? |
Ref: RV-6 Instructions, chapter 12, page 12-2, last full paragraph
of the page mentions "SK-103" which is supposed to depict a cross
section of the upper cowl/firewall interface. Am I missing something
obvious, or is "SK-103" hiding somewhere? I can find no such sketch
anywhere in chapter 12.
Tim Lewis
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Backriveting the Wings |
-----Original Message-----
From: SCOTT R MCDANIELS <smcdaniels(at)juno.com>
Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 12:35 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Backriveting the Wings
>On the RV-6(A) kit the tail cone has thin J stringer material that
>distorts more during riveting that the .063 angle that is in the RV-4 and
>RV-8 if you drive on it too hard. Back riveting works very good here
>also. And it is accessible enough to use the standard back rivet set
>with the spring thing on the end.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
Scott,
I was wondering about backriveting the tail cone and now my fears are
confirmed -- I'll have to do it! I crawled in there to backdrill all the
holes in the tail cone and it brought back memories of spelunking (cave
exploring) and being in an MRI tunnel to get a scan of my back. Riveting
in there must sound very much like an MRI scan.
For the fortunate many who haven't had an MRI scan, Magnetic Resonance
Imaging utilizes pulsed magnetic fields to image cross sections of your
body. You are slid into a very skinny tunnel where you lay for what seems
forever (about 20 minutes).The pulsation causes loud noises as the gantry
distorts under the field forces and the sound is very much like riveting.
(There are now so-called "open MRI" machines that are not so confining.)
MRI back scans and tailcone drilling/riveting from within are not for people
with even mild claustrophobic tendencies!
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
After carefully looking at and re-measuring the type S cowl top and side
flanges, I think I will use the plain 212-12N receptacles and 2700 (-3
length) studs on the sides. Since the type S cowl is so much lighter and
fits together so well, I don't believe that using the larger 4000 series
studs and receptacles is necessary. However, I plan to install 9 of the
MS245-2 floaing receptacles on the top and use the 2700 studs there for now.
This will allow changing to the 4000 series studs and grommets later if the
need arises. If anyone has any experience or comments on this, please
reply.
I would like to mention that if anyone is going to use the type S cowl, no
shims are needed between the hinges on the firewall. Instead, a .040 shim
is added to the cowl on the bottom sides hinges only.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Hi, Ron.
>
>Strange you should ask about that. I just the other day received 25 of
the
>MS245-2 Receptacle, Floating, from Skybolt. Was not too happy.
>So to answer your question. I quess I'm still out to lunch on this. I
have
>the new epoxy type cowl with the overlapping sides and intended to use the
>adjustable receptacles and camloc fasteners, both across the top and on the
>sides, instead of the hinges. I also intended to use soft 3/32 AN rivets
to
>mount them on the sides because of the thin fiberglass and wanted the
>ability to adjust the holding tension. Until I try riveting a scrap of the
>cowl with an NAS cheater rivet to see how it holds up to the squeeze, I
>don't know if I will use them on the sides. The top will be okay because
>they mount on .040 aluminum. I could mount the receptacles on aluminum
>strips and then rivet the strips to the sides with the soft rivets which
>would keep the 1/8" rivet squeezing from crunching the fiberglass>>Les
Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>>Hello Les,
>> How is your research going on the Camloc question?
>>
>> I just talked with a sales type at Skybolt, and he recommended
>>going with the 4000 series as it would hold up better in the long run.
>>i.e. less chance of holes wallowing out.
>>Ron Vandervort
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net (stan burchett) |
Subject: | BUILDER/PARTNER WANTED..HamptonRoads VA |
-6A builder seeking partner to start -8 or -8A kit. I live in Tabb
(lower York Co.). 757-867-7244
Stan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Leslie B. Williams <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Camlocs...?
>
>After carefully looking at and re-measuring the type S cowl top and side
>flanges, I think I will use the plain 212-12N receptacles and 2700 (-3
>length) studs on the sides. Since the type S cowl is so much lighter and
>fits together so well, I don't believe that using the larger 4000 series
>studs and receptacles is necessary. However, I plan to install 9 of the
>MS245-2 floaing receptacles on the top and use the 2700 studs there for
now.
>This will allow changing to the 4000 series studs and grommets later if the
>need arises. If anyone has any experience or comments on this, please
>reply.
Les,
Here are some tips I got from Roger Wall who has a show-plane quality 6. He
has the old cowl and got fed up with the hinge and pin system for the top.
He used 4002-G Grommet and 214 -16 Receptacle -5s (0.171 to 0.200 grip
range), and Flush Grommet 4002-G. His reasoning for using the large head
series was not for strength but rather to distribute the force of the
fastener over a large area of the fiberglass to prevent fretting wear over
time.
He left off the snap ring until cowl painting so he could paint without the
Camlocs in place.
I want to use Camlocs throughout, so please keep us posted on how your
project progresses.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
Subject: | AKZO primer vs water based |
Gil:
Hope you can stand one more primer question (off-list, at least).
I've read over the many posts on AZKO primer and it sounds great, but only
one of the posts I read mentioned tersely that it was toxic. How toxic?
Does it contain isocyanates or chromates?
Considering that priming isn't totally necessary in the first
place, I don't see any reason to place myself at any risk to get it done.
I found a Sherwyn Williams water based epoxy primer ("water based catalyzed
epoxy primer", partA is B70W100, part B is B60V15) that sounds much more
benign than most epoxies - I haven't used it yet, though. The SW guy told
me I'd be foolish to use more dangerous paints. The hazards sheet mentions
crystalline silica, etheylene glycol, and a couple of ethanol based
solvents with no OSHA toxicity ratings established yet. I'd certainly take
pains to ventilate a makeshift paint booth and wear a respirator, but it
sounds much safer than most epoxies.
So, how toxic is the AZKO primer and do you have any opinion on the
SW water based epoxy?
Thanks for your time.
Tom Sargent
(Trying to work on my RV6-A tailkit if I can EVER get a weekend off!)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:Flying |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
>
> I have been flying for 20 yrs and just recently got my instructor rating. I
> have been terrified how students and low timers pick up small statements or
> bad habits, and incorporate them in their flying, when asked where did you
> learn that they reply "from you......."
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
I like the one were the instructor tells the student to pull your
nose up and the instructor looks over and sees the student trying
to pull his nose up.....Your points are well taken Doug students
do pick up allot of bad habits from us the instructor if we are
not carefull.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
Flying 34 yrs, Instructing 22 yrs.
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-4 main longeron rivet spacing |
From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Hi Doug,
I used #3 rivits with 1" spacing in my airplanes. It gives a much nicer
appearence. I have not questioned Van personally about this but it was my
understanding that he had OK'd it. It might pay to call & check.
Regards, Bill RV4, N66WD
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Wing-walk Doubler-R-Wing? |
I have a question about the wing walk doubler. What is the purpose of the wing
walk doubler on the right wing of the RV-8? Is this a structural necessity,
or purely for in case somebody steps there? If the non-skid wing walk tape is
on the left side only, is it still necessary to have the doubler on the right
wing? Just wondering.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
Subject: | Re: Backriveting the Wings |
>MRI back scans and tailcone drilling/riveting from within are not for
people
>with even mild claustrophobic tendencies!
I should be right at home doing mine from the inside. I've installed and
serviced MRI scanners for 12 years :-)
BTW- MRI scans are more fun than mylograms.
Russell Duffy
RV-8, (HS riveted yesterday, VS proceeding rapidly)
Navarre, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Pro-Seal Application Idea |
Just thought I would pass along a technique for Pro-Seal application that I
learned about today from a fellow builder. Instead of the popsicle stick
method, he used a cake decorating bag, with the small metal reuseable tip.
These bags are a sort of cloth like material into which you put your premixed
pro-seal and then twist and squeeze out the pro-seal in a very controllable
manner, without applying too much. Outstanding results! These are available at
your local large craft store. Hope this helps somebody, I am certainly going
to use it when I get to my tanks, which should be within the next couple of
weeks, I hope.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wing-walk Doubler-R-Wing? |
<< If the non-skid wing walk tape is
on the left side only, is it still necessary to have the doubler on the right
wing? >>
Von:
By the time you get that airframe ready to fly, you will wish that the
wingwalk extended to the tip! Put it in, and folks can enter (or exit) from
either side. The -4 has it on the left only- the canopy keeps the inattentive
on the correct side for entry/exit.
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ray Lee <mesa(at)lonestarbbs.com> |
Subject: | Where on earth is SK-52 |
Working on Flaps (RV6) using F.Justice instructions.
He refers to what I assume is a drawing, SK-52. Any help on where
I might find this ????
Thanks
Ray Lee RV6 (finishing wings at last)
Plainview, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I plan to install 9 of the
MS245-2 floaing receptacles on the top and use the 2700 studs there for now.
This will allow changing to the 4000 series studs and grommets later if the
need arises. If anyone has any experience or comments on this, please
reply. >>
Les-
The 4000 series, being larger in diameter mostly due to the grommets, requires
a much greater edge distance. I think 5/8" edge to center. So, keep this in
mind if you expect to convert from 2700 to 4000 in the future.
-GV
RV-6A N1GV (first flight tomorrow)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe03(at)erols.com> |
Subject: | Polishing Aluminum |
I am just about to finish riveting my HS, and would like to get off all
the black marks left by the rivet set. Should I use some sort of polish,
or should I just wipe it down with a cleaning solution like simple
green?
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 HS
Cherry Hill, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:Flying |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
>
> >
>
> >
> >You are correct that you can control your RV in a stall with the ailerons,
> >however this is a bad habit to develop. I am not saying that you should
> not
> >explore this area, however, many flyers fail to understand the danger in
> >recovering from stalls in this manuver.
> >
I agree with Doug and the use of ailerons. If there is one thing that's
important in "stall recovery" above any other manner of recovery. DO NOT
USE THE AILERONS FOR CONTROL. The rudder is your primary direction and
roll control surface on the aircraft. To use ailerons will only induce a
longer recovery in many cases. This is from an old but not so bold pilot
with 45yrs flying experience and having learned from the old guys. Now I
are one. Flying is an unforgiving medium one that should be executed
with knowledge and the advantage of others experience. Unlike the
warnings that were given you by others about other things in your life
and not taken to heart because you felt they didn't apply to you or it
didn't apply to this case. This imformation may hurt you if you don't
pay attention.
Good luck,
Don.... CFII,ATP,A&P,retired.
RV6QB near done
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wing-walk Doubler-R-Wing? |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
> If the non-skid wing walk
>tape is
>on the left side only, is it still necessary to have the doubler on
>the right
>wing? Just wondering.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 #544
>
>
We assume that it adds strength to the wing in the root area ( and all
the static load testing ws done with one on each wing ) so they are
specified to be installed in both wings.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Pro-Seal Application Idea |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Just thought I would pass along a technique for Pro-Seal application
>that I
>learned about today from a fellow builder. Instead of the popsicle
>stick
>method, he used a cake decorating bag, with the small metal reuseable
>tip.
>These bags are a sort of cloth like material into which you put your
>premixed
>pro-seal and then twist and squeeze out the pro-seal in a very
>controllable
>manner, without applying too much. Outstanding results! These are
>available at
>your local large craft store. Hope this helps somebody, I am certainly
>going
>to use it when I get to my tanks, which should be within the next
>couple of
>weeks, I hope.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 #544
>
>
>
I just this past week tried something similar. I was going to post the
idea here but someone beat me to it. Actually I feel kind of foolish
for not trying something like this a long time ago.
I have been assembling a set of RV-8 tanks for someone, and with it being
the 8th or 9th set that I have put together I decided that their must be
an easier/cleaner (yea right) way.
Instead of a pastry tube I used a small sized ziplock freezer bag.
Filled it with the amount of proseal to be used at that time, and then
snipped the corner off so that it had about a 1/8 hole.
Squeeze the bag and out it comes.
I found this to be the most helpful when installing the rear baffle as it
has the most area to cover all at one setting.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Subject: | Re: AKZO primer vs water based |
Tom;
I'm posting this to the list as it might be of interest to others
considering using water based paints. I used a water based paint, both
primer and topcoats, on my Kitfox. It was called SystemThree and made in
Seattle, WA. They used to advertise in Sport Aviation but have pulled
their ad. It sticks fine on fabric and fiberglass, but does NOT stick to
aluminum (except the inside of my spray gun cup). I just finished
stripping all the paint off all the large aluminum parts on my KF and
redoing with a (toxic) epoxy primer and auto enamel (DuPont Centari). The
water based stuff started peeling off in sheets after about two years. I
don't know anything about the SW paint; it may be fine. However Stits (or
whatever they are now) have come out with a water based paint, but the
local distributor advises not to use it on aluminum. In the not too
distant future we won't have any choice but to use water based paint, but
until then I'm sticking to the most toxic stuff I can find and use my Hobby
Air.
And about the AKZO. Yes, it's toxic. Be careful about buying it from any
distributor; AKZO no longer makes the stuff and you don't know how long
these distributors have had it on their shelf. The shelf life is two
years. It's good stuff though. Boeing and the old Douglas used it, and I
have also.
Mike Robbins
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Workmanship Concerns (CHATTER) |
<< You are the only set of eyes to keep your airplane safe, so let's not
dilute
ourselves by looking at their gliches and passing our hacks off to lightly.
The above statement does not have to be true. I get as many people to look at
my work as possible, from beginners to A&Ps.
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Polishing Aluminum |
>I am just about to finish riveting my HS, and would like to get off all
>the black marks left by the rivet set. Should I use some sort of
polish,
>or should I just wipe it down with a cleaning solution like simple
>green?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8 HS
>Cherry Hill, NJ
Moe,
I say, don't bother! Move on. The little clean up details can be done
after you undoubtedly grunge it up during handling when mounting on the
fuse. Hangar rash is a tricky lil devil...creeps up on ya in spite of
your best efforts.
Brian Denk
finally skinning left wing. To back rivet, or not to back rivet, that is
the question....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
Subject: | What exactly IS back-riveting? |
I see a lot of reference to back riveting. What exactly is it and does
it require different sets for the rivet gun and/or special bucking bars?
Please reply off list as I'm SURE not everyone wants to see an
explanation of back riveting! What are the advantages/disadvantages?
Scott, Aeronca 11CC, N4181E...hence the no riveting experience :(
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Subject: | Polishing Aluminum |
get off all the black marks left by the rivet set.
I left all of mine the way they are. I am using Poloyfiber epoxy primer
(no flames please) and the prep for that involves using a scotchbrite
pad and some elbow grease. I think at that point my black marks will be
removed. I also have some very fine buffing compound that I can use for
any of the tough stuff. I plan on priming my empenage/fuselage/wings
just prior to painting so I have to wait a bit to do this.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6AQ
Electric Flap installation
Roanoke, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
----------
> From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Baffle Kit
>
> 2. A piece of aluminum was delivered with the instructions. It's
about
> 8"x11". What's it for?? >>
>
> Reinforcing the attach points using doubler patches as shown in the
> instructions.
>
> -GV
>
GV-
Thanks for the answer, but I'm confused. The "doubler patches as shown in
the instructions" are completed and provided with the kit. There must be a
use for an 8"X12" piece of aluminum. Is it to reinforce the area where the
oil cooler attaches to the left rear baffle? One list member suggested
that.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pro-Seal Application Idea |
> Just thought I would pass along a technique for Pro-Seal application that I
> learned about today from a fellow builder. Instead of the popsicle stick
> method, he used a cake decorating bag, with the small metal reuseable tip.
I have not riveted my tanks yet, but I have obtained some empty caulking
tubes to use for the Proseal. I got them from a local industrial
adhesives distributor who also repackages adhesives from bulk.
Bob Reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
After checking my baffle kit, it looks to me like the .040 material "was"
used to make Part No. 10R-320 / 360 which is now pre-made with .063 (page 2
of instructions). It is also used to make retention clips on the RV-6 (step
6 of instructions), and a flange re-inforcement angle in place of 4RB for
the RV-6 oil cooler mounted on the left rear bulkhead (step 10 of
instructions). The rest of it is probably a carry over from when you had to
make some of the other parts as well.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>----------
>> From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Baffle Kit
>>
>> 2. A piece of aluminum was delivered with the instructions. It's
>about
>> 8"x11". What's it for?? >>
>>
>> Reinforcing the attach points using doubler patches as shown in the
>> instructions.
>>
>> -GV
>>
>GV-
>
>Thanks for the answer, but I'm confused. The "doubler patches as shown in
>the instructions" are completed and provided with the kit. There must be a
>use for an 8"X12" piece of aluminum. Is it to reinforce the area where the
>oil cooler attaches to the left rear baffle? One list member suggested
>that.
>
>Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Polishing (preping) Aluminum |
>>Getting off all the black marks left by the rivet set....
>
>I left all of mine the way they are.....
So did I. I pri....uh.....put an undercoat on my -4 and prepared the
surface, giving it some "teeth", by a light scuffing with ScotchBrite. I
thought every little thing under the......undercoat would show: it does not.
Prior to spraying, however, prep the surface with naphtha, MEK or some other
solvent to make sure the spots aren't something on the metal the paint
solvent will dissolve.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Subject: | Re: AKZO primer vs water based |
>"Michael J. Robbins" wrote, "Tom; I'm posting this to the list
as it might >be of interest to others considering using water based paints.
>> And about the AKZO. Be careful about buying it from any distributor;
AKZO no longer makes the stuff and >you don't know how long these distributors
have had it on their shelf. The shelf life is two
> years. It's good stuff though. Boeing and the old Douglas used it, and I have
also.
Just a comment on current production of what used to be Akzo, posted a
couple of weeks go: Akzo was bought by Dexter Aerospace - the primer is
still produced & costs $86 for a 2 gallon kit - sounds just like the
Pratt & Lambert and is within $2 of being same price.
Aircraft Spruce, a builder supplier, sells a 2 gallon zinc
chromate kit for $100, same 2 gallon kit, probably the Dexter/Akzo
product (call and ask).
You can call Dexter's HQ at 847-623-4200 for seller nearest to you. You
can call Sherwin-Williams's Pratt & Lambert factory in Wichita, KS, at
1-888-888-5593, Ext 130 Sally to find out the Pratt & Lambert sellers
nearest you.
David Carter, RV-6 HS, smoothing skin edges prior to priming & riveting
to skeleton, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
Les,
Thanks for the very complete answer. Where did you mount the oil cooler???
Bob
San Antonio
RV-6
----------
> From: Leslie B. Williams <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Baffle Kit
> Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 9:01 AM
>
>
> After checking my baffle kit, it looks to me like the .040 material "was"
> used to make Part No. 10R-320 / 360 which is now pre-made with .063 (page
2
> of instructions). It is also used to make retention clips on the RV-6
(step
> 6 of instructions), and a flange re-inforcement angle in place of 4RB for
> the RV-6 oil cooler mounted on the left rear bulkhead (step 10 of
> instructions). The rest of it is probably a carry over from when you had
to
> make some of the other parts as well.
>
> Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>
> >----------
> >> From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
> >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Baffle Kit
> >>
> >> 2. A piece of aluminum was delivered with the instructions. It's
> >about
> >> 8"x11". What's it for?? >>
> >>
> >> Reinforcing the attach points using doubler patches as shown in the
> >> instructions.
> >>
> >> -GV
> >>
> >GV-
> >
> >Thanks for the answer, but I'm confused. The "doubler patches as shown
in
> >the instructions" are completed and provided with the kit. There must
be a
> >use for an 8"X12" piece of aluminum. Is it to reinforce the area where
the
> >oil cooler attaches to the left rear baffle? One list member suggested
> >that.
> >
> >Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WoodardRod(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Polishing Aluminum |
> I am just about to finish riveting my HS, and would like to get off all
> the black marks left by the rivet set. Should I use some sort of polish,
> or should I just wipe it down with a cleaning solution like simple
> green?
>
> Moe Colontonio
Hi Moe,
I'm pretty much leaving mine the way they are--smudges, marks and all--until
I'm ready for the exterior priming and painting sequence.
The one suggestion I've heard over and over from painter-type friends and
relatives (there is a difference) is that I should ABSOLUTELY NOT use anything
that has any silicone in it if I try to clean up my finished parts. My
brother-in-law will not allow things like Armour-All within 50 feet of his
paint booth.
When I restored my Cherokee, I found that the plexiglass spray cleaner I had
been using contained silicone of some sort. Even after I completely stripped
the metal window trim pieces all the way down to aluminum, we were still
fighting fisheyes from the silicone stuff.
My $0.02.
Rod Woodard
RV-8, #80033 [Champ time: 12.0 hrs; RV building 0 hrs :-( ]
Loveland, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
Subject: | Re: Where on earth is SK-52 |
>He refers to what I assume is a drawing, SK-52. Any help on where
>I might find this ????
>Thanks
>Ray Lee RV6 (finishing wings at last)
>Plainview, Texas
>
Ray
Sk52 is in face a small b/p (dwg). There layout rivets patterns. find
after the pictures in my book. There are small drawings.
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)allways.net> |
Subject: | Re: Where on earth is SK-52 |
charset="us-ascii"
I believe it is in the manual, either among the instructions or with the
yellow page-sized drawings.
Don Mack RV-6A
donmack(at)allways.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Lee <mesa(at)lonestarbbs.com>
Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 11:39 PM
Subject: RV-List: Where on earth is SK-52
>
>Working on Flaps (RV6) using F.Justice instructions.
>He refers to what I assume is a drawing, SK-52. Any help on where
>I might find this ????
>Thanks
>Ray Lee RV6 (finishing wings at last)
>Plainview, Texas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
site,
then we would wiggle the wings slightly while sitting on the foam rubber
(the wings not us) to get the initial bolts to go through. Once the first
few bolts were through, the rest fell into place. We have the pre-drilled
landing gear, so aligning the gear in the mounts was very simple.
Don Mack RV-6A
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
-----Original Message-----
>
>Don,
>
>I'm a few weeks away from hanging the wings for drilling the landing
>gear. How did it go for you? Did everything go together the first
>time? Did it take six guys all day?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>Drilling side skins to fuselage
>-22 degrees this morning
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< The "doubler patches as shown in
the instructions" are completed and provided with the kit. There must be a
use for an 8"X12" piece of aluminum. Is it to reinforce the area where the
oil cooler attaches to the left rear baffle? >>
In the "old" days we had to chew the baffle doublers out using our teeth. We
also had to drive 5 miles to school and back in unheated cars when it was
raining. It was a tough life. I swear, you new guys have it so easy.
Use it for reinforcement of the left baffle for the oil cooler if it is .090"
thk or more IMO.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Polishing Aluminum |
<< Should I use some sort of polish,
or should I just wipe it down with a cleaning solution like simple
green? >>
There is a polish that comes impregnated in a cottonlike material called
MetalBrite.
It comes in a can. It is used to remove oxidation from metals. Some people
with bare aluminum w/trim airplanes use it.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
Subject: | Where's the scrap? |
For some reason I assumed there would be some scrap aluminum & spare rivets in
the RV-8 emp. kit that could be used to perfect my riveting techniques before
do the real thing. After inventorying today, I realized there are not. Any suggestions
on where to get said practice materials? Aircraft Spruce seems to
have 'bargain bags' of scrap plastic, tubing, etc - but I couldn't find any sheet
aluminum.
Thanks,
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
Advance, NC
Starting RV-8 emp. - finally!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Wing-walk Doubler-R-Wing? |
<< s it still necessary to have the doubler on the right
wing? Just wondering. >>
I called Van about this some time ago, his reply was, "You absulutely need the
doubler. F. Laforge RV-4 Mounting engine and cowling. In So Cal.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Where on earth is SK-52 |
Ray Lee wrote:
>
> Working on Flaps (RV6) using F.Justice instructions.
> He refers to what I assume is a drawing, SK-52. Any help on where
> I might find this ????
Have you tried looking in Van's Manual???
Gary Zilik
reen?
>>
>>Moe Colontonio
>>RV-8 HS
>>Cherry Hill, NJ
>
>Moe,
>
>I say, don't bother! Move on. The little clean up details can be done
>after you undoubtedly grunge it up during handling when mounting on
>the
>fuse. Hangar rash is a tricky lil devil...creeps up on ya in spite of
>your best efforts.
>
>Brian Denk
>finally skinning left wing. To back rivet, or not to back rivet, that
>is
>the question....
>
I also wouldn't bother with the marks until final finish preparation, but
if you want to impress all your RV friends with nice looking parts until
that time their is something that you can do.
To prevent the scuffing which causes the black burnish marks, put one
layer of plastic packing tape on the rivet set (or back rivet bucking
bar). Get the good stuff from 3M or Scotch, the cheap stuff doesn't last
very long.
If you do this you will have perfectly shiny markless skins on all your
parts.
If you are using a swivel flush set it still works. Just cat a small
piece and fold the corners to the inside of the rubber boot.
BTW if you want to really impress other builders, put a small piece on
the end of the rivet set when driving AN470's. It will look like the
rivet was set with a squeezer (if you don't pound a smile into it that
is).
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: Where's the scrap? |
Try to find a local scrap metal dealer. Your local A&P will definitely
know where to go. You don't need aircraft grade to practice, anything
will do. The stuff is very cheap too. Make sure you don't drive your
first rivets into your airplane!! Practice first! I am reminded of this
bit of advice every time I look in the corner at my "spare" HS front
spar.
Now a question to the list in general: I heard from a GlasairIII friend
of mine who knows a friend of Van that there are 2 -8 quick builds ready
to ship. Anyone else hear anything about this? Anyone have a price?
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 HS
Cherry Hill, NJ
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> For some reason I assumed there would be some scrap aluminum & spare rivets in
the RV-8 emp. kit that could be used to perfect my riveting techniques before
do the real thing. After inventorying today, I realized there are not. Any
suggestions on where to get said practice materials? Aircraft Spruce seems to
have 'bargain bags' of scrap plastic, tubing, etc - but I couldn't find any
sheet aluminum.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
> larry(at)bowen.com
> Advance, NC
> Starting RV-8 emp. - finally!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pro-Seal Application Idea |
>
>> Pro-Seal application he used a cake decorating bag, with the small
metal reuseable tip.
>
>empty caulking
>tubes to use for the Proseal.
>Bob Reiff
>
>I found popsicle sticks too stiff. I used the little plastic handle which
is used to hold the foam onto a `foam brush'. The blade is tapered towards
the tip so you can cut it back until it is the right stiffness. My moto is
the old KISS scenario, it worked great. I made several of different widths
and shapes to get into all the little cracks and crevices. Cleans up with
MEK. I like Scott M's idea of the zip lock bag to apply the proseal and then
spread it with my plastic foam brush handles. Just my .02 cents
>
>
>
>
Marc DeGirolamo
-4 #3289
Saskatoon,SK.
Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernie Amadio" <e_amadio(at)vaxxine.com> |
Subject: | Re: drilling thin tubing (spacers & bearing) |
----------
> From: Don Mack <donmack(at)allways.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: drilling thin tubing (spacers & bearing)
> Date: February 14, 1998 9:10 PM
>
>
>
> > Anyone have any hints for drilling the spacers & brass bearing for the
> >aileron mounts? They just spin in every clamp I can devise, getting
> >rather deeply _scored_ (not scratched) in the process.
> >
> > Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
> > President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
> > RV-8 80091 Mounting 1st Aileron
>
>
>
> I took some soft, thick aluminum and made covers for my bench vise. Took
> about five minutes and works great. Holds just about anything without
> marking it up.
>
> Don Mack RV-6A (just hung the wings to mount the landing gear, does that
> look NICE)
> donmack(at)allways.net
> http://www.flash.net/~donmack
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | FASTER RVs Part 1 |
From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
I would like to suggest that we discourage people from making claims on
the RVlist about speed improvements to RVs without providing adequate
data to support the claim. I think we all waste time and perhaps money
pursuing claims about simple little add-ons that make airplanes fly
faster. You've seen them, they go like this.
"ABC has developed a new Framus for RV aircraft that adds up to 10% to
the speed. Extensive research, analysis and testing has led to exciting
results. Pilots report that RVs with the new Framus can fly rings
around RVs with dimples and vortex generators. The local F-18 fighter
squadron is considering using the new Framus because they are tired of
not being able to keep up with these RVs."
"ABC has long thought that Van's design was too conservative. So, we
...(insert here a paragraph containig words like supercomputers, NACA
WW2 research, Computational Fluid Dynamics, Monica Lewinsky, Roswell New
Mexico, advanced NASA boundary layer research...etc). The new Framus
was recently written up in several glossy magazines."
Now someone who claims that the speed has gone up by a given percent
(say 10%) may not realize it, but they are also claiming that the
overall drag has gone down by twice that percent (20%) and the
horespower required by three times that amount (30%). That is because
aircraft drag varies as the square of the speed and and power required
varies as the cube of the speed.
Drag changes don't happen. There are reasons for them. Among other
things it is a result of changing skin or cross sectional areas, weight
or span, preventing laminar flow from going turbulent or turbulent flow
from separating, or improving cooling. One might expect relatively big
drag improvements on a badly designed or dirty aircraft, but the RVs are
well designed, clean aircraft and large changes would be required to
make large drag changes.
However, who can argue with pilot reports that say " My RV is now 10%
faster." Well, lots of people including me. I'd like to see the data
from these flight tests and to see how they were carried out. It isn't
adequate to just fly the aircraft, look at the ASI and say "Looks like
10% to me." The differences being looked for are small and the tests
have to be precise. Even people skilled at making drag reductions, like
Kent Paser and Dave Anders, sometimes have to test several mods at once
to get a measurable effect.
There are lots of ways for even a well intentioned pilot to go wrong
testing. The before and after tests have to be adjusted for equal
weights, horsepower and atmospheric conditions. It is no small feat to
keep the aircraft from climbing or diving while holding course, reading
the bouncing instruments and recording data. This is over and above
outright fiddles and mistakes.
So, having had my say, I'll make a positive suggestion. I,ll post a
flight test data form on the RVlist as Part 2 of this note. You can
check it out and perhaps those of us making modifications to our
aircraft can use it to measure the speed increase or decrease more
accurately and report it to the RVlist. Also if someone is promoting a
new Framus we can ask them to post the flight test data to the list with
their announcement. If someone isn't comfortable analysing the data,
I, and no doubt others would be glad to do it for them.
ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
---
{ Presentation of the preceding message was made possible by Flight 642 }
{ BBS. Canada's Aviation and Simulation connection. (905)642-2993 }
{ WEB Page: http://www.flight642.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
Subject: | Where's the scrap? |
>For some reason I assumed there would be some scrap aluminum & spare
>Larry
>larry(at)bowen.com
>Advance, NC
>Starting RV-8 emp. - finally!
All your friends at the airport will have some laying around. The
freight will be more than its worth to order it.. Local sheet metal
companies maybe, like a/c ducting. Local EAA friends. About 8 rivets &
you will be ready. Good luck.
Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:Flying |
And to quote our esteemed leader re. flying:
"Flying is made safer through our constant pursuit of
PERFECTION, not pretentious statements and attitudes with the flavor of
whistling in the dark."
R. VanGrunsven
This was in some past RVator. I don't remember which one, but it struck
me as worth noting.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, wiring and doing cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
<< I would lose that prop asap if I were you......I have heard nothing but
nightmares about the Ivoprop,
including some fatalities......
>>
I missed the original post on this thread, but is the prop referred to an in-
flight adjustable model ? I have heard bad things about those but not the
standard ground adjustable type.
Just Curious
Merle (you know - the Chevy guy) Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Polishing Aluminum |
Paul
The Seneca is a 6 Place - Fred will be flying Right Seat I think but no I have
not thought about other cargo.
Will be in touch
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Subject: | Where's the scrap? |
I didn't build an 8 but after building a 6 empenage, I did find there
was a bit of scrap in the kit if you look for it. For example, there
were two lightning holes in the VS that yield pieces big enough to
practice on. This material will be .032 for the flanges I believe and
.063 for the bottom flange brace. The HS flange (HS 801/802??
maybe)angles must be trimmed a bit and that will yield some heavy duty
stuff (.063 plus) that is good for practicing counter sinking. As for
rivets I can't speak to the eight but they do give you extra rivets
because they don't expect you to get every one just right. I had quite
a few AN470AD4-5s and AN426AD3-3s in the 6 kit. A note of caution that
you may use more of the AN426AD3-3s depending on your countersink rule.
My personal rule is if it ain't .040 or more get the dimple dies out the
draw!
Remember when you practice to try varying the pressure to get what you
feel most comfortable with. At the risk of starting a Riveting Jihad, I
rivet with the flush set at about 25 psi with a 3X gun.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A Electric flaps
Roanoke, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen [SMTP:larry(at)bowen.com]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 1998 7:27 PM
To: Rv-List (E-mail)
Subject: RV-List: Where's the scrap?
For some reason I assumed there would be some scrap aluminum &
spare rivets in the RV-8 emp. kit that could be used to perfect my
riveting techniques before do the real thing. After inventorying today,
I realized there are not. Any suggestions on where to get said practice
materials? Aircraft Spruce seems to have 'bargain bags' of scrap
plastic, tubing, etc - but I couldn't find any sheet aluminum.
Thanks,
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
Advance, NC
Starting RV-8 emp. - finally!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Where's the scrap? |
Find an aluminum siding contractor for some scrap. Most gutters are .032
(some are .027). Who cares what color it is for practice riveting.
-----Original Message-----
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Date: Monday, February 16, 1998 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Where's the scrap?
>
>Try to find a local scrap metal dealer. Your local A&P will definitely
>know where to go. You don't need aircraft grade to practice, anything
>will do. The stuff is very cheap too. Make sure you don't drive your
>first rivets into your airplane!! Practice first! I am reminded of this
>bit of advice every time I look in the corner at my "spare" HS front
>spar.
>
>Now a question to the list in general: I heard from a GlasairIII friend
>of mine who knows a friend of Van that there are 2 -8 quick builds ready
>to ship. Anyone else hear anything about this? Anyone have a price?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8 HS
>Cherry Hill, NJ
>
>Larry Bowen wrote:
>>
>>
>> For some reason I assumed there would be some scrap aluminum & spare
rivets in the RV-8 emp. kit that could be used to perfect my riveting
techniques before do the real thing. After inventorying today, I realized
there are not. Any suggestions on where to get said practice materials?
Aircraft Spruce seems to have 'bargain bags' of scrap plastic, tubing, etc -
but I couldn't find any sheet aluminum.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Larry
>> larry(at)bowen.com
>> Advance, NC
>> Starting RV-8 emp. - finally!
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Flaring 1/8 Tubing |
How should you go about flaring the ends of 1/8 inch tubing? My Flaring
tool from Avery will only flare tubing down to 3/16 inch. I'm using 1/8
tubing for my Fuel Primer Lines and Fuel Pressure Gauge. Appreciate any
ideas. Thanks.
Ron Caldwell
rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net
RV6A - Finish Stage
we thought
is that it would then lay flat on your work bench. However, this type
of binding is considerably more expensive than standard "perfect"
binding. If this is a feature you have found worth while, we will
continue with it. If not, we'll switch to a standard method.
2] organization
Now is the time if you have any comments on how it may be better
organized as far as the sequence of articles, or what might be done to
make specific topics or subjects easier to find.
3] mistakes
If you know of any mistakes, or items that are no longer relevant
such
as people mentioned who no longer provide certain services, or defunct
builder's clubs, etc... please let me know.
4] builder's clubs
If you know of any builder's clubs that are not listed on that
page,
and should be, please let me know.
5] cover photo
I need a cover photo for the 18 Year book. If you have a good quality
and interesting photo of your finished plane (or planes) that you would
like to have grace the cover, please let me know. I'll send a free book
to the person whose photo gets used and discount coupons for everyone
whose pictures we can't. Only thing... I need it within the next two
weeks.
Thanks for your help
Andy Gold
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brad Bundy" <bundyb(at)infowest.com> |
As for your inquiry concerning the original posting of the Ivoprop; On
2/13/98, I had asked if there where any who had info or experience with the
Ivoprop.
What I received were opinions and "I have heard" .
As I have learned again; It is easier to write than to
research.
I wanted data, personal experiences. I like the Ivoprop concept. I want
to make it work for my airplane. It has been working well on other
airplanes.
Therefore I shall continue to research and in as much as I have the
electric prop installed, learn from personal experience. I promise that as
I gain final and sound data that if it be desired by those trying also to
learn from facts the same shall be shared.
As to the fatality concerning this same model prop, it seems that the
owner/pilot may have just purchased the Velocity and did not understand the
proper sequence for maintaining the proper torque on the prop bolts. So,
how well do we need to know our own airplanes?
Those of us who build/buy and fly experimental need to remember that they
are just that. Flying any aircraft can not and should not be a carefree
experience.
If we have concerns we should have someone look at that,
if we are not sure.
Any further inquiries can be addressed to
Brad Bundy
bundyb(at)infowest.com
Owner/Pilot, not builder but learner of a Chard 6 of the which
I have much more "experimenting" to do.
S/N 002
N48AC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brad Bundy" <bundyb(at)infowest.com> |
Subject: | Fw: Ivoprop info |
----------
> From: Brad Bundy <bundyb(at)infowest.com>
> To: Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com
> Cc: rvlist(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Ivoprop info
> Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 9:48 AM
>
> As for your inquiry concerning the original posting of the Ivoprop; On
> 2/13/98, I had asked if there where any who had info or experience with
the
> Ivoprop.
> What I received were opinions and "I have heard" .
> As I have learned again; It is easier to write than to
> research.
> I wanted data, personal experiences. I like the Ivoprop concept. I want
> to make it work for my airplane. It has been working well on other
> airplanes.
> Therefore I shall continue to research and in as much as I have the
> electric prop installed, learn from personal experience. I promise that
as
> I gain final and sound data that if it be desired by those trying also to
> learn from facts the same shall be shared.
> As to the fatality concerning this same model prop, it seems that the
> owner/pilot may have just purchased the Velocity and did not understand
the
> proper sequence for maintaining the proper torque on the prop bolts. So,
> how well do we need to know our own airplanes?
> Those of us who build/buy and fly experimental need to remember that they
> are just that. Flying any aircraft can not and should not be a carefree
> experience.
> If we have concerns we should have someone look at that,
> if we are not sure.
> Any further inquiries can be addressed to
> Brad Bundy
> bundyb(at)infowest.com
> Owner/Pilot, not builder but learner of a Chard 6 of the which
> I have much more "experimenting" to do.
> S/N 002
> N48AC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
Hi All,
I noticed that someone asked for some help on the RV-List, recently.
The individuals that responded ON THE LIST did NOT even try too offering any
help.
Is the list a source of mutual help for RV builders?
If you have an answer, please send it directly to LesDrag(at)aol.com
Do not waste space on the RV-List.
For my own personal response. I am sending the word "HACKER" directly to the
unhelpful flame freaks, along with their response.
IMHO, getting flamed ON THE LIST for asking for help is unacceptable to the
person asking for help, and to everyone else on the list.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Flaring 1/8 Tubing |
From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>How should you go about flaring the ends of 1/8 inch tubing? My
>Flaring tool from Avery will only flare tubing down to 3/16 inch. I'm
using
>1/8 tubing for my Fuel Primer Lines and Fuel Pressure Gauge. Appreciate
>any ideas. Thanks.
Ron, you need a flaring tool that will accommodate 1/8" line. There are
a few that will. I have the Rolo-Flair tool from ACS. It makes nice
flares from 1/8 to 3/4. You can probably borrow one from a local builder
for the few places you need it.
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | seaok71302(at)juno.com (mike a adams) |
My ProSeal just went past the expiration date... do I have to throw it
away......
It's really not called Pro-Seal....
I searched the internet for Morton Thiokol and eventually got the chemist
who developed MC-236. ( the stuff Van's sells to seal tanks,... it's not
ProSeal ). He said there are tests you can do to recertify and extend
the shelf life in 3 month intervals a maximum of 3 times ( 9 months )
past the expiration date, presumably if you were building a CERTIFIED
aircraft.
The properties of the seal ( which will soon be renamed AC-236 because
Morton Thiokol has sold this chemical division of the company, same stuff
) will be unchanged after the cure period. He said it might set up
slower and run on vertical surfaces more than a fresh batch.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Ivoprop info |
> From: Brad Bundy <bundyb(at)infowest.com>
> I wanted data, personal experiences. I like the Ivoprop concept. I want
> to make it work for my airplane. It has been working well on other
> airplanes.
Check the archives, there's quite a bit of first hand data and personal
experiences. If you still pursue flight testing this prop on a Lyc, might
I suggest a parachute and making sure both the engine and motor mount are
chained/cabled to each other, and also seperately to the airframe, should a
flown blade knock them off. Please keep the list posted on your flight
testing.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
Building an RV-6 with an O-320. Have baffle kit and oil cooler from Van.
The instructions with the baffle kit, page 10, show the "RV-6 Baffle mount
oil cooler air inlet". It appears to be only one half the size of the oil
cooler.
Is that correct or should the opening in the baffle be about the same size
as the oil cooler??
Thanks for the help.
Bob Cabe
San Antonio
---
"The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's
and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA."
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | MC-236 B-2 ( a.k.a. Proseal ) |
From: | seaok71302(at)juno.com (mike a adams) |
My ProSeal just went past the expiration date... do I have to throw it
away......
It's really not called Pro-Seal....
I searched the internet for Morton Thiokol and eventually got the chemist
who developed MC-236. ( the stuff Van's sells to seal tanks,... it's not
ProSeal ). He said there are tests you can do to recertify and extend
the shelf life in 3 month intervals a maximum of 3 times ( 9 months )
past the expiration date, presumably if you were building a CERTIFIED
aircraft.
The properties of the seal ( which will soon be renamed AC-236 because
Morton Thiokol has sold this chemical division of the company, same stuff
) will be unchanged after the cure period. He said it might set up
slower and run on vertical surfaces more than a fresh batch.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Flaring 1/8 Tubing |
>How should you go about flaring the ends of 1/8 inch tubing?
There is a special flaring tool that just does 1/8 inch tubing and nothing
else. I got mine from ACS, I believe. Kinda pricy, as I remember, but when
you gotta have a tool.............
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
Hi,
I am looking for a way to contact Bernie Warnke Propeller manufacturer. My
apologies if the name is spelt wrong.
Regards Les.
Les Rowles
Po Box 1895
Traralgon
Australia 3844
lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au
kit from banard aircraft components this does include the gold
anodized pre built spar. He will take $4000 for both kits. He is going to
order an RV-8 Quick Build. E-mail me privately if you know anyone interested.
My other hanger mate is about to skin his RV-4 fuselage and wants to know
if its best to top coat (color coat) the interior parts of the cockpit or
just prime now and paint the inside of the cockpit later (after assembly).
He is not planning on using any fabric sidewalls.
Fraternally,
Dave Hamilton
RV-8 (fuel tanks)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
I'm a newbie to the RV group. I just purchased a project from a guy that
was started in 1988. I'm not sure of the fuselage type yet. That is
whether it is a sliding canopy or tilt up canopy. I didn't have time to
look at it yet and it is stored out West for about 4 or 6 weeks.
If it is an unstarted fuselage as a tilt up, can it be converted and
built up as a slider?
Any replies will be appreciated. TNX
Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL.....
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Ivoprop info |
<< I had asked if there where any who had info or experience with the
Ivoprop. >>
Brad,
Research is one thing. Flight testing a prop which has a questionable history
is another thing.
I have flown over 400 hours with IVO props on low HP machines. 50-60 hp. I
was using one of his props on a 70 HP engine and a blade was cracking at the
bolt attach when I caught it. IVO gave me my money back, but choose not to try
to solve the problem. His first reaction was that I had failed to keep the
torque correct on the prop. When I explained my background and techniques he
quickly offered to give me my money back.
Please check the archives and check the NTSB files before you commit yourself
to flight testing this prop. A separated blade is not to be dealt with
lightly.
Bernie Kerr 6A fuselage SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Flaring 1/8 Tubing |
>How should you go about flaring the ends of 1/8 inch tubing?
There is a special flaring tool that just does 1/8 inch tubing and nothing
else. I got mine from ACS, I believe. Kinda pricy, as I remember, but when
you gotta have a tool.............
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
Any of you So Cal listers planning on attending Flabob this coming weekend?
If so, I'm planning on being there Saturday (weather permitting) and would
like to get together with anyone interested. Maybe chat over lunch?
Mike Wills
RV-4 (fuse ordered)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rich Tichy <fsi(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi,
I've been reading the Rv list for only a short time. Having read the
last few letters about the Ivoprop, I also have a question about props.
I would like to know who is and is not a good source for a prop. I think
I'll stay with a wood fixed pitch but need some advice as to how to pick a
good
supplier.
Thanks Rich RV-6 only 5% left to do.
lockport, Il.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gregg healy <greggrv6(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Steel HS Jig - LA , Ca Area (RV-6) |
Greetings Fellow Builders,
I have a percision steel jig designed for the RV-6 horizonal
stabilizer for sale. It was built by Noah Peckler for RV-6
production. I recently completed my tail feathers.
Please contact me directly.
Gregg Healy
greggrv6(at)dock.net
Camarillo, Ca.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Bernie Warnke |
> From: L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au>
> I am looking for a way to contact Bernie Warnke Propeller manufacturer.
My
> apologies if the name is spelt wrong.
> Regards Les.
Les,
The latest (Feb. 98) has the following contact info:
Margie Warnke Propellors
3906 W. Ina Road #200-193
Tucson, AZ 85741
Phone 520-405-9309
Let us know what you find out happened to Bernie, and about the prop (I
need to start thinking about ordering one too).
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flaring 1/8 Tubing |
>How should you go about flaring the ends of 1/8 inch tubing? My Flaring
>tool from Avery will only flare tubing down to 3/16 inch. I'm using 1/8
>tubing for my Fuel Primer Lines and Fuel Pressure Gauge. Appreciate any
>ideas. Thanks.
>
>Ron Caldwell
>rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net
>RV6A - Finish Stage
>
>
Ron,
One of the flaring tools that Avery sells will flair 1/8" tubing. Try to
find a local RV builder who might have this as you only need to make a few
flares. I used this flaring tool from Avery for my primer lines and had no
problems.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
>
>Building an RV-6 with an O-320. Have baffle kit and oil cooler from Van.
>
>The instructions with the baffle kit, page 10, show the "RV-6 Baffle mount
>oil cooler air inlet". It appears to be only one half the size of the oil
>cooler.
>
>Is that correct or should the opening in the baffle be about the same size
>as the oil cooler??
>
>Thanks for the help.
>
>Bob Cabe
>San Antonio
Even in SA, I doubt you'll need all of the opening. I've got an RV-6 with
the 150 HP O-320 and put the oil cooler in back of the left rear cylinder.
I only have an opening about half the size of the cooler and I'm hard
pressed to get the oil temp into the green even when the temperature is in
the 80's (it does happen here occasionally). I keep the exit side of the
cooler partially blocked year round, too.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 N16JA
First flight August 1990
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: FASTER RVs Part 1 |
Ron,
I for one enjoy hearing about all of the different ideas for speed. I
personally dont care if they are substanciated or not. Lets face it most of us
know you get nothing for free, so usually its not to hard to separate the fact
from the bs.
For instance if I used everything available to save fuel, EFI, Ellison TBI,
Electronic ignition and so on I should be flying on about 4GPH right. Wrong!
it all has to end somewhere, the engine absolutly will not run without fuel.
The same holds true for speed. Some of these guys have come up with clever
ways of squeeking out a couple of extra miles per hour here and there. A
little common sense will let you know if the numbers they are claiming are
possible or not. Usually if someone claims a 10mph incrrease for a single mod
( short of clipping your wings or adding more HP) its bs. A 3 or 4 mph
increase hmmm could be.
Here are 3 no BS tips for making your RV faster.
#1. Build it straight and clean.
#2. Keep it light (dont sacrifice weight for strength)
#3. Run a strong engine with the right propeller. ( the correct engine prop
combo is one of the most imortant steps)
We are all big boys here, and I think most of us would prefer to make our own
determination as to weather or not we want to believe speed claims or not.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
LesDrag(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> The individuals that responded ON THE LIST did NOT even try too offering any
> help.
My apologies, but at the risk of seeming to be a 'flamer', could you
clarify what you mean? I think I understand you, but English seems to
have failed you.
> Is the list a source of mutual help for RV builders?
It has been tremendous help to me, and hopefully I've been able to help
others. Not only materially, but also for inspiration in those times
when I've gotten discouraged. Not only that, some of the postings are
just plain fun to read.
> If you have an answer, please send it directly to LesDrag(at)aol.com
Nope, I think everyone needs to hear this.
> For my own personal response. I am sending the word "HACKER" directly to the
> unhelpful flame freaks, along with their response.
Again, I am not sure I understand your intent, but this seems hardly a
punishment. Also, why "HACKER"? I *am* a hacker, in the old sense of
the word, and am not offended by it. Why not "FLAMER" and be more to
the point about it. It will have the same effect either way.
> IMHO, getting flamed ON THE LIST for asking for help is unacceptable to the
> person asking for help, and to everyone else on the list.
Yes, yes, I agree with the sentiment. In a perfect world, the old hands
on the list would be more tolerant of the newbies and the newbies would
pay more attention to the guidelines published by Matt so that the old
hands would have less to grump about.
However, two points. First, if I tersely tell someone to check the
archives (tersely in order to keep the posting small), some folks take
that as a flame. Not having body language or voice tones as a cue, they
assume terseness equals brusqeness. In other words, they add a meaning
to the message that was not put there by the original poster.
Second point. The list is a community. We have too many people for
everyone to get along and yet we do - amazingly well. Still, we have
the odd sorehead or two, and the role changes hands constantly. When I
catch myself being grumpy, I try to apologize. When someone else grumps
on me, I try to pass it off. Usually, it turns out to be crossed
communication in the first place.
What I am saying is that we are all responsible for our own civility.
If you flame a flamer, you have just added to the flames, not made
things better. If someone is truly out of line, let Matt deal with
them.
PatK - RV6A - hoping to fly the *friendly* skies
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4flyer(at)aol.com |
Can any one give me the dimentions of a jig that I can build all models of RV
wings in? Do I have to have a different wing jig for each model wing? Any
help you could give would be much appreciated.
Eli Lewis, Venice, FL
RV-4/RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David S. Hamilton" <hamlton(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Where on earth is SK-52 |
Hello everyone,
I'll apoligize upfront for attaching this message to the previous thread.
I'm new to this list and don't understand yet how this works. After my
apparent failed attempt at a new thread last night, I'll try this method of
launching a new message into cyber space.
I have two parts to this posting.
One of my hanger mates wants to sell his RV-4 kit and purchase an RV-8
quick build. He has completed about half of the tail and has the wing kit
also. The work on the tail is good. His wing kit came from Benard
Aircraft and includes all their quick build components including the pre
assembled, gold anaodized spar. He has $7,000+ invested and will accept
$4,000 for both kits. I believe this to be a good bargin for anyone
starting out or perhaps about to order an RV-4 Wing kit. Please E-mail me
privately if you know of any interest.
My other hanger mate is assembling his RV-4 fuslage and wants input from
builders that have been there. Did you paint the color coat on the
interior parts of the cockpit before assembly or wait until later to
topcapt these interior areas? (Please no Variprome debate!) Which method
did you choose and what would you do if you were building again.
Thanks in advance,
Dave Hamilton
RV-8 #80001
fuel tanks - arggggh!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Subject: | Horiz Stab - repair of extra hole made when dimpling |
I was whacking away with my Avery C frame dimpler on horiz stab skins,
when one felt funny. Yup, the stuff I was using to hold my skin more or
less level with dimple die had flex'd the skin up and off the die. So,
I took a small punch and went arount the "extra" dimpled hole very
carefully, a little at a time, and pushed the dimple out, finally using
a larger steel rod flat on one end. Came out nice and flat, no
mangling, and a tiny hole. So,
I thought, I'll take this to a guy to weld a little spot of aluminum in
that tiny little hole (it was on the "bottom" of the outboard tip).
Well,
I wish I hadn't. He was used to making shrimp boats and welding heavy
aluminum. I asked him if his electric arc rig was going to blast a big
hole in my skin, and he said, "No."
He didn't tell me that he'd fill in the dimpled hole, about 3/4 inch
away and leave a 1/4 inch pile of junk on both sides!
I filed away and finally got that part of skin back to about .0323
thickness and put skin back on skeleton and back-drilled throught the
rib's hole. Then dimpled the new hole. Well,
The new aluminum layer flexed where the dimple depression started and
separated slightly, making a small pit on each side of dimple. Well,
Wish I'd just put body putty on it a year down the road when I paint
the exterior.
No one need reply to this. I've learned. Just passing it on to the
next guy who makes an extra hole and asks himself, "Should I just close
that hole as best I can - or take it to my local welder?"
David Carter, RV-6 empennage (painting inside of HS skins tomorrow,
riveting next day), Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
Well said.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wmills(at)southwind.net (William H. Mills) |
Subject: | RV vs. Lancair Revisited |
I know this was thrashed over a couple of weeks ago, but thought you might
find this interesting....
A friend of mine who's an engineering flight test pilot happened to be in
the Pacific Northwest recently, and while up there made his way down to
Van's, where he was given a factory tour and the famous $40,000 free ride
in RV-8 #2 (no, he didn't buy a kit on the spot...but he fully understood
why most did!). He described the airplane as wonderful...one of those
airplanes you just can't wait to go out and fly; fabulous handling
qualities; stick forces and stick force gradients in the ounces category
(surprise, surprise). As Van says...Total Performance. He came away very,
very impressed (and he flies a wide variety of piston and turbine equipment
in his work, including Beech's T-6A Texan II prototype).
Later that same day, he had the opportunity to fly a recently (almost)
completed Lancair IV-P (I say almost completed, as it lacked portions of
the interior trim, a part of the planned avionics package, and
interestingly, the pressurization system). This airplane had had plenty of
$$$$ lavished on it, and to date the builder and helpers/cobuilders had
invested 6000+ hours of construction time in it (!!!!!). My friend
described this one as an airplane that he couldn't wait to get to cruise
altitude so he could put it on autopilot! Handling qualities were not
pleasant at all...and speaking of utility, yes, of course it goes
fast...but the owner couldn't fly it to, say, Sun-n-Fun with one (1) other
person and still take their luggage and other paraphanalia along (this is a
4-place, remember). My friend's comment: for about the same or even much
less money (and certainly a lot less time invested!), you could go out and
by a nice A36 Bonanza and have a real useful payload capability in an
airplane that flies much, much nicer (albeit not as fast).
There's lots more than meets the eye...it pays to look closely and carefully.
Bill Mills
Wichita
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Subject: | Re: f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
>Not stupid at all. You have to look at the plans closely but it does
>show that the seat rib also should be curved to approximate the curve on
>the arm rest.
>Fear not builders if you already have skinned but didn't do so (My
>personal RV-6A which was the first one I built has straight seat ribs)
>the only effect it really has on the airplane is a different trim of the
>wing root fairings.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
>
Scott,
I have heard that a straight fuse. side extending from the wing leading edge
for the length of the chord increases speed. This along with a 'cone
section' root fairing (a la Spitfire) will pick up a few free knots. Any
truth in this? Is a straight seat rib better?
Royce Craven
RV6A Engine etc....
Melbourne OZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< The instructions with the baffle kit, page 10, show the "RV-6 Baffle mount
oil cooler air inlet". It appears to be only one half the size of the oil
cooler.
Is that correct or should the opening in the baffle be about the same size
as the oil cooler?? >>
Bob-
My cutout for the inlet (behind cyl 4) is the size of the finned area of the
Niagara oil cooler that Van's sells except for a small triangulation at the
lower inside corner clearing the cylinder fin rise in that area. IMO, this
configuration enhances the air flow thru this cooler to the maximum practical
extent for this particular cooler mounting location.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Russ Rieber" <rrieber(at)inreach.com> |
Subject: | Re: AKZO primer vs water based |
FYI
I work for an aerospace company that builds parts for most of the large
aircraft companies (like Boeing...) and we use water based primers on
aluminum all of the time. One thing we did find with the water based
primers is they make steel parts rust!
Russ Rieber
RV-6 Just starting the empenage kit
----------
> From: Michael J. Robbins <kitfox(at)gte.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AKZO primer vs water based
> Date: Sunday, February 15, 1998 10:20 PM
>
>...I used a water based paint, both primer and topcoats, on my Kitfox. It
was called SystemThree and made in
> Seattle, WA. ...It sticks fine on fabric and fiberglass, but does NOT
stick to
> aluminum (except the inside of my spray gun cup). I just finished
> stripping all the paint off all the large aluminum parts on my KF and
> redoing with a (toxic) epoxy primer and auto enamel (DuPont Centari).
The
> water based stuff started peeling off in sheets after about two years.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Where's the scrap? |
<34E9153F.6826C6D8(at)bellatlantic.net>
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Now a question to the list in general: I heard from a GlasairIII
>friend
>of mine who knows a friend of Van that there are 2 -8 quick builds
>ready
>to ship. Anyone else hear anything about this? Anyone have a price?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8 HS
>Cherry Hill, NJ
>
Not true as far as I know.
Their are 2 RV-8 Q.B. kits that are the Beta kits that I spent 3 lovely
all expenses paid weeks in the Philippines supervising the assembly of.
One was used for landing gear drop tests and the other was used for the
FAA approval evaluation.
I believe there are some under construction right now and with the sea
freight delivery time, etc. it should be some time in April when we have
some.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Helping? IVO PROP (Chatter) |
LesDrag(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> IMHO, getting flamed ON THE LIST for asking for help is unacceptable to the
> person asking for help, and to everyone else on the list.
>
> Jim Ayers
> LesDrag(at)aol.com
>
Hi Jim
First I don't think anyone was intentionally trying to flame anyone as
IVO has had some bad press from some of the older props. Now having
that out of the way, I know you have been having good luck with your
IVO Prop, my question is the LOM engine being inline part of the
reason you are having good luck? I would love to have a adjustable
prop for my O-360 solid crank engine but the guys I talk to are still
having bolt (or blade) loosening problems at the hub on the 0-360's, as
much as I would love to have one of these props, I guess I am to much
of a chicken to use one till some good solid data is in. I know the
IVO prop topic has been beat to death on the list but I am still
interested in RV's that have been using one, especially O-360's with
good results.
---
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Where's the scrap? |
> Any suggestions on where to get said practice materials? Aircraft Spruce seems
to have 'bargain bags' of scrap plastic, tubing, etc - but I couldn't find
any sheet aluminum.
>
Your local hardware store usually carries aluminum sheet. While this is not 2024t3
is works just as good for practice and is not to expensive..
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>If it is an unstarted fuselage as a tilt up, can it be converted and
>built up as a slider?
>Any replies will be appreciated. TNX
>
>Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL.....
>
Phil,
The answer to your question is yes. even if the fuse. was started you
could still switch pretty easily. If the fuse was nearly completed you
could still change but a little more difficult.
If the whole kit was purchased before the early part of 1991 or so then
it is in all probability a tip up fuse.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Ivoprop info |
I agree with Bernie (from the post above --not B. Warnke), Ivoprops have a
known propensity to throw blades in ALL their various iterations. My info is
not of the "I heard" type---my Ivo did infact try to throw a blade and after
initial attempts to blame me by Ivo, he refunded my money with no fuss and a
whole bunch of very strange excuses. These Ivoprops have a failure history on
every type of engine and aircraft they have been flown on and personal
inspection of many by myself after my enlightening lesson reveals a similar
trend toward failure. Do other props fail---yes but generally they are not as
experimental as the Ivo. Let me repeat that I have seen failed and failing
Ivos on a variety of installations from ultralights to Lycoming types--it is
not heresay. An interesting near failure of a Warneke occured to an
aquaintence of mine who had moved to Az. from humid Houston. Flying his
modified aircraft in sportsman type aerobatics he regularly pushed his machine
hard. About six months or maybe more, he was in a practice session when there
began a vibration that got much worse---he reduced power and returned to base.
Upon inspection he found the prop to be held on by I think only two
bolts---the others loose in the spinner or gone.It is my understanding that
the prop had not been retorqued since his move--I do not know accumulated
time. I saw on the bolts that remained and those in the spinner considerable
evidence of fretting and working over a long period of time--clearly the prop
had not been maintained properly. Here,in this case ,we can well blame the
owner for inadequate maintenance as was the case---Not the prop. Other factors
may have been at work here also but it is clear that lack of proper mainteance
is a large factor in this near failure and not the design of the Warneke prop.
This was not the case with my Ivo or several others I have looked into--they
failed due to inadequate design. It is not just our behinds at risk but that
of our loved ones and friends as well---do you really trust them to an Ivo.
Just my humble factual experiance. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Horiz Stab - repair of extra hole made when dimpling |
Please do not weld on aircraft aluminum--among other things it ruins the heat
treat, introduces possibility of intergranular corrosion,destroys the alclad ,
causes distortion and is absolutly forbidden. Next time you get an extra hole
in 032 please double flush it or if nothing backs it up just put in an extra
rivet. I am not sure where the skin was welded upon but most likely it is time
to toss it and call it a lesson well learned. Not trying to ruin your day--but
welding 2024 is never acceptable and is not an approved repair. JR A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Bernie Warnke |
<< I am looking for a way to contact Bernie Warnke Propeller manufacturer. >>
Try him at 520-294-1166 and for future info of this nature see the Yeller
Pages at: http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Subject: | Re: rv-4 kit bargin |
>
>Hey everyone I've got two seperate items.
>
>One of my hanger mates has decided to sell his RV-4 kit. The tail is about
>50% done and the work is good. He also has a wing kit including the "quick
>build" kit from banard aircraft components this does include the gold
>anodized pre built spar. He will take $4000 for both kits. He is going to
>order an RV-8 Quick Build. E-mail me privately if you know anyone interested.
>
>My other hanger mate is about to skin his RV-4 fuselage and wants to know
>if its best to top coat (color coat) the interior parts of the cockpit or
>just prime now and paint the inside of the cockpit later (after assembly).
>He is not planning on using any fabric sidewalls.
>
>
>Fraternally,
>
>Dave Hamilton
>RV-8 (fuel tanks)
>
Dave,
I am building a -6 currently, but I love the -4's as well. Your "deal" is
tempting. What part of the country are you in?
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Elevators - Wings ordered!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Subject: | Re: to 16 YEARS OF RV-ATOR owners |
Good product, stick with current binding - it is easier to leave open to a place.
one suggestion - there is a lot of difference in the final gross weights at least
with
Rv-6s. Mine for instance loaded with two 170 people and 70lbs of lugage would
gross out
at 1750 lbs. Might be interesting to have a table of representative examples of
different RV- finish weights.
Ed
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com wrote:
>
> We are currently putting together the updated 18 YEAR book and would
> like your opinion on a few things so that we may perhaps improve the new
> edition. Your answers (directly back to us at winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com)
> would be much appreciated.
>
> 1] type of binding
> Past editions have used a plastic comb binder. The benefit we thought
> is that it would then lay flat on your work bench. However, this type
> of binding is considerably more expensive than standard "perfect"
> binding. If this is a feature you have found worth while, we will
> continue with it. If not, we'll switch to a standard method.
>
> 2] organization
> Now is the time if you have any comments on how it may be better
> organized as far as the sequence of articles, or what might be done to
> make specific topics or subjects easier to find.
>
> 3] mistakes
> If you know of any mistakes, or items that are no longer relevant
such
> as people mentioned who no longer provide certain services, or defunct
> builder's clubs, etc... please let me know.
>
> 4] builder's clubs
> If you know of any builder's clubs that are not listed on that page,
> and should be, please let me know.
>
> 5] cover photo
> I need a cover photo for the 18 Year book. If you have a good quality
> and interesting photo of your finished plane (or planes) that you would
> like to have grace the cover, please let me know. I'll send a free book
> to the person whose photo gets used and discount coupons for everyone
> whose pictures we can't. Only thing... I need it within the next two
> weeks.
>
> Thanks for your help
> Andy Gold
> winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
> I'm a newbie to the RV group. I just purchased a project from a guy that
> was started in 1988. I'm not sure of the fuselage type yet. That is
> whether it is a sliding canopy or tilt up canopy. I didn't have time to
> look at it yet and it is stored out West for about 4 or 6 weeks.
> If it is an unstarted fuselage as a tilt up, can it be converted and
> built up as a slider?
Phil --
If it hasn't been started, then it's just a matter of sending some money
to Van's to get those parts you don't already have. I don't know if this
is a small amount of dollars or a large amount.
But I would recommend you talk to people before you make a decision.
The tip-up, while looking funny on the ground, has some advantages:
1. Unobstructed forward view -- no roll bar in the way.
2. A tighter seal to keep water away from your avionics.
3. Easier access to the avionics.
Most of the builders I know are building tip-ups for these reasons. You'll
be happy either way, so I recommend you think about it before going through
the complexity of switching from whatever style you bought.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Bernie Warnke |
Rob: I had info about two months ago that Bernie was suffering from cancer,
and that his condition did not look good.. Haven't heard anything since
then...My 3 has one of his props...TOP NOTCH!!!! Hope he recovers
successfully....Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
LesDrag(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I noticed that someone asked for some help on the RV-List, recently.
>
> The individuals that responded ON THE LIST did NOT even try too offering any
> help.
>
> Is the list a source of mutual help for RV builders?
Yeah Jim, just ask about primer sometime. You'll get messages from both
on and off the list from these holier-than-thou, been there done that
types. I asked a question about primer and was told "Hey, WE'VE ALREADY
talked about that. Pick one and get over it." I almost left the list
because of that. If it happens again I will leave the list.
I've been on the internet for about 10 years and have been a member of
many lists, I'm not new to this. I know there are certain threads that
keep coming back again and again. All the more reason to address these
recurrent threads in more detail in the FAQ--or set up a web page with
questions, answers, and perhaps a comparisson of options available.
I know there are some that will say "It's in the archives, you idiot."
Well, the discussion is in the archives but no conclusions. All that's
there is, "I use this, I use that." Not very helpful. A web page or a
FAQ section about primers would prevent almost all primer questions.
Don't flame me just because I haven't "been there and done that."
P.S. Thanks to those who responded off-list with helpful suggestions.
--
Scott
RV-4 Tail bought complete, Wings started
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
Patrick Kelley wrote:
>
>
> LesDrag(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > The individuals that responded ON THE LIST did NOT even try too offering any
> > help.
>
> My apologies, but at the risk of seeming to be a 'flamer', could you
> clarify what you mean? I think I understand you, but English seems to
> have failed you.
This is exactly what he's talking about. You know what he means. Don't
criticize his grammar.
________________________________________________________________________________
Speaking of baffles and oil coolers: has anyone tried building a cockpit
controllable baffle behind (exit side) of oil cooler, with which to control
oil temps in highly varying outside air temps?
If so, how to build?? How well does it seem to work????
Thanks.
hilljw(at)aol.com
rv-8 tail kit
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
From: Department of Encouragement
Re: Flying Your Airplane
There has been some talk on the list comparing the RV series to other
airplanes, namely here lately, the Lancair. I am not one to say anything
bad about any other airplanes (although I have my opinions about some of
them). However, let me rant here for a second about your RV. You are going
to LOVE this airplane.
There are several airplanes you can fly that it seems you are fighting with
constantly or that the AIRPLANE has just a little more control over the
flight than you have at any given moment; they are not fun to fly. Sure,
they get you there in a hurry, but it is hard to.....well, bond with the
airplane. How many airplanes out there have been built and sit around in
the hanger, not being flown?
Not so the RV. This is one great airplane to fly. I can't WAIT to get up
for the next flight. I'm looking at the weather constantly to try to
predict if I will be able to get up four days from today. I come in from
work and plug the oil heater in just in case I can fly the next day.
'Course, I love to fly anyway; but this airplane sucks you into the air like
a love affair gone wild: can't wait for another flight.
Bottom line: YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE THIS AIRPLANE!! Did I mention that
already? Van disigned a great looking, great performing airplane that just
happens to be an absolute joy to fly. It goes fast/slow without being
"spooky". How can you beat that?
No, I do not work for Van. He has worked for ME by giving me this great
design to build and fly and I am proud to be one of his cheerleaders.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying (expanding the envelope)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4Brown(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV4 - Need a Mentor |
Gentlemen:
I have been monitoring the list for about two years. Occasionally I have
even been able to contribute something. I am a good metal worker but there are
areas of this project where I could benefit from a knowledable friend and
confidant. I am looking for a mentor to consult with to help finish the power
plant and systems portion of my project. The equipment ordered is as follows:
- Aero Sport rebuilt Lycoming O-360 with Bendix fuel injection, electronic
ignition, inverted oil and fuel
- Hartzel constant speed prop
I'm sure there are many lessons to learn. I don't want to make any serious
mistakes and I certainly don't want to hurt myself in the process. I would
like to discuss the following with someone who has completed and flown their
RV4. I'm sure there are many items you would do differently if you built a
second or third aircraft.
- firewall equipment locations.
- firewall penetrations - cables, electrical cables, fuel lines, etc.
- throttle and cable linkages
- fuel pumps/ fuel system
- vacuum systems
- electrical systems
- oil cooler location and system installation
I would really appreciate being able to meet with an experienced RV4
builder, pull the cowl and have some serious heart to heart conversations. If
you can spare a little time, I would be most grateful. I'm located near West
Point, New York (South Eastern, NY) and I am willing to travel to meet.
Please contact me off list if you can help!
Tom Brown RV4Brown(at)aol.com
RV4 on the gear, canopy essentially complete
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
> The tip-up, while looking funny on the ground, has some advantages:
> 2. A tighter seal to keep water away from your avionics.
The tip-up has a gap right above the avionics, which needs to seal each
time the canopy is cycled (in fact, my Orndorrf tapes show how they
fashioned "rain-gutters" of sorts to take any water over the avionics down
to the fuselage interior sides).
The slider has a permanently fixed and sealed piece of plexi over it,
offering greater protection to the avionics. However, it does have a gap
above your head, possibly offering less protection to the pilot in case of
rain .
> 3. Easier access to the avionics.
Very true...but also readily fixed by making the panel removable (easy), or
with subpanels (somewhat more difficult).
Just food for thought...its gotta' be worth more than the unnecessary and
sarcastic "ad nauseum" flame wars going on here. I'm wondering if we
listers really are grown ups building real airplanes at times...scary.
Rob (RV-6Q...BEATING on the rear $%^&@! canopy frame).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | donspawn(at)juno.com |
Waiting on my 6A fuselage. Need to try & find which used 0-320 or I0-320
Lyc.
Mr. Hartmann sent me the list of aircraft the engines when on. & the
description on each engine. There are a lot of unanswered question after
reading this items.
Aviall lists Overhaul Manuals, Parts, & Service bulletins for about
$165.00.
Hopefully I can find out what suffix #'s, wide deck, hollow cranks, &
tilted sumps mean.
1- Is this the way to go or should I get them from the factory?
2- If I find an engine with FI , would that be a problem to use?
3- What is Ellison TBI?
Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
> >But I would recommend you talk to people before you make a decision.
> >The tip-up, while looking funny on the ground, has some advantages:
> >
> >1. Unobstructed forward view -- no roll bar in the way.
> >2. A tighter seal to keep water away from your avionics.
> >3. Easier access to the avionics.
>
> Actually, I think the tip up is more likely to help *dump* water
> into the avionics stack when opened, not provide a tighter
> seal. The slider will provide better protection for your
> avionics, and with a removeable instrument panel (or
> portions that are removeable) easier access is probably
> a wash. Just get a ride in both, then make the call. Both
> provide *excellent* visibility, I don't even remember
> consiously seeing the rollbar in the slider RV-6 I got
> a ride in initially.
>
> For me, the main reasons for the slider are cooling
> and cool. I hate being too hot.
>
> Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
> RV-6AQME almost finished with the sliding canopy...
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
Subject: | Re: Pro-Seal Application Idea |
We've been using the plastic baggie proseal technique for years at the
heli service center I work at. We've found another neat way to do it
too...
We get big syringes (~1" dia.) at a veternary supply place and put the
mixed proseal inside them. They work great. AND... we found that you can
use compressed air to blow out the unused portion after it has cured,
and get several uses out of each syringe. We use both techniques along
with tongue depressors and popcycle sticks -depending.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Horiz Stab - repair of extra hole made when dimpling |
<< or take it to my local welder?" >>
As a welding engineer, let me assure you that the skins are NOT the things
that you want to weld. Even if it is a good weld, the tensile strength goes
to about half. Also the corrosion resistance provided be the alclad goes
away. I have had cases where 2024 was welded but you wouldn't believe the
development time and costs involved.
Gene Francis, RV-6A with the baffling almost complete
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
I agree wholeheartly.
I have been on this list for 1.5 yrs. I can put up with the responses but some
can't.
I get frustrated on this list sometimes but I usually do get answeres to my
questions eventually, I just have to ignore the B.S. and decide who knows what
their talking about and who doesn't. Please Matt don't take this as a
critisism I love this list. The archives do help sometimes.
When people ask a question here they are going to still have to make a
decision (just look at the response to a primer question) everybody thinks
their way is the best. The final answere is there is no one way to do some of
the things we do, be open minded, there are many ways to do things as well as
many products to use doing them.
Have an open mind, read the LIST and make a decision based on common
sense.
John L. Danielson
Jdaniel343(at)aol.com
Riveting wing spars / Rebuilding Trim Tab
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Pro-Seal Application Idea (Another one) |
I used disposable cake frosting bags to apply ProSeal. They are available
almost anywhere for $2-3. You use them just like you were applying frosting
to a cake. gives a nice steady bead, no air bubbles and best of all --its
both clean and cheap.
Dan Helm
-4 Still finishing up
d the avionics area.
As soon as you tip the canopy up dont you have the problem of water running
off the windshield and down the back of the avionics as well as the avionics
area open to the elements.
I realize this area can be sealed off but the canopy doesn't do this.
Go ahead - I'm waiting for the flame mail
John L. Danielson
Jdaniel343(at)aol.com
Riveting wing spars / Building new trim tab
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
I don't know the source of this, but it's excellent advice for
lists and newsgroups.
"Be conservative in what you send,
and generous in what you receive."
When I run out of generosity for a particular flamer, I set my
filter so that I no longer see his posts. Doesn't help the
flamer, but it stops me from feeling annoyed.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter)) |
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
[snip]
> I've been on the internet for about 10 years and have been a member of
> many lists, I'm not new to this. I know there are certain threads that
> keep coming back again and again. All the more reason to address these
> recurrent threads in more detail in the FAQ--or set up a web page with
> questions, answers, and perhaps a comparisson of options available.
Thats a great idea. There's only one problem: who's going to do it?
Matt? He has his hands full already. I was the one who originally
created the FAQ and have tried to maintain it to the best of my
abilities but can't spend all my time on it, and really don't have the
experience nor the incliniation to fully address some of these issues.
I have requested input for the FAQ before but never recieved any input
from anyone else. This is too bad because even though I have tried to
be as objective as possible, and mainly provide answers that are
distillations of postings on the list, I'm sure my personal biases
have crept in there to some extent.
Primers and Ivoprop are two that I just don't have the experience,
time or inclination to address. If someone thinks they can
objectively compose a distillation of the more fact-based postings
about these subjects (or any other for that matter), I would be happy
to add them to the FAQ.
So who's going to do this? I nominate Scott VanArtsdalen :-)
BTW, the most current rv-list FAQ is available in indexed HTML on the
home wing home page, at HTTP://www.edt.com/homewing/faq.html.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com |
Subject: | Easy Access Panel |
Hey Gang,
I'm no where near this point but am day dreaming of panel instillations,
lots more fun than my accounting job. I'm sure everyone saw the picture of
the Young Eagles panel that removed in sections, as shown in SA magazine.
Has anyone run across a set of plans for a setup like this? My blood
pressure is too high to be hanging upside down under the instrument panel
chasing wires.
My alternate plan is to somehow hinge the panel so that the whole thing
leans out on a pivot near the bottom. I would have to make fixed side pieces
so that it will clear the canopy sill near the panel, of course. Any advice
or thoughts would be appreciated.
Eric Henson
RV-6 Slider (Wings almost done)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Rich,
I will give you 3 of my favorite wood prop makers in my order of
preference. Aymar Demuth, Bernie Warnake, and Ed Sterba. All of these guys are
reputable prop makers. Sterba is probally the cheapest while Demuth and
Warnake cost about the same. IMHO Demuth makes the most consitant prop. In
other words if I bought a second prop from him of the same pitch and diameter
the operational results would be the same as the first one. All of these prop
makers can be found in the classified section of the sport aviation magazine
under propellers. BTW I run a Demuth, when Its worn out I will buy another.
One other thing, If you only have 5% left to go you better make up your mind
in a hurry. Some of these guys will take up to 6 months to build your prop!
They are very buisy.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
Hi,
Just few lines to say how sad I was to hear Mr Bernie Warnke is not well.
Thanks to all responded. The purpose of my request was, that I could not
get a response from his buisness and thought this was another way to get on
to him. I had a few responses direct and must say this man is certainly
well respected. I had no idea Mr Warnke is so unwell and wish him and his
family all the best.
Regards Les.
Les Rowles
Po Box 1895
Traralgon
Australia 3844
lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | angle-valve O-320 |
Listers:
ECI, the cyl folks in San Antonio, are developing a new engine for the
experimental market. It is a much improved 0-320, with what amounts to GO-480
barrels. HP produced on the dyno comes up to 175, but as much as 190 with good
reliability. The lower HP version weighs about 5 lb more than the 160 HP lyc,
and the 190 HP model comes in at 15 lb heavier (bigger rods).
This is all I have now, and some of you may have heard about this already.
Let's watch this one, as an exp engine might be somewhat cheaper than the Ol'
Lyc-o-saurus.
My understanding is that there will also be a certificated version (= larger
bucks).
Now, putting these barrels on the 320 is not a new thing- anyone can do it.
ECI is also making improvements to the case, so things like cams and other
internal parts will survive longer.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
----------
> Rich,
> BTW I run a Demuth, when Its worn out I will buy another.
>
Ryan,
Your message to Rich was timely for me. I also am about ready to decide on
a prop. I'll have an RV-6 with an O-320, 160 HP.
What are you flying? Engine? Prop diameter and pitch? How's your
performance???? Cost??
Thanks,
Bob Cabe
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4flyer(at)aol.com |
I am trying to build a wing jig that will be compatable with any RV wing does
anyone have any dimentions that will be of help to me? Eli Lewis Venice,FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>Has anyone tried building a cockpit controllable baffle behind (exit side)
of oil cooler, with which to control oil temps in highly varying outside air
temps?
>If so, how to build?? How well does it seem to work????
Hey, JW: I have a setup where the oil cooler takes air off the back of the
baffle behind cylinder #3, a 2 inch duct. That goes to a sealed aluminum
frame bolted to the oil cooler (with the same bolts mounting the oil cooler)
which is mounted on the engine mount. The back has a (slightly modified) 45
degree heater vent that Van sells which the door is controled from the
cockpit. Clear as mud?
How does it work? I have the gate shut completly and the intake closed off
about 95% and the oil temperature has never gotten above 180. I have not
flown yet in hot weather, but am not worried. On the plate covering the
intake, I wrote: REMOVE ABOVE _____ DEGREES AMBIENT TEMPERATURE. I don't
know yet what temperature I need to remove it. The hottest I've flown it in
yet is 60 degrees. That is when it got to 180. I'm sure I will have no
problem with oil temperatures being too high!
I think it may be better to have air controled going in the FRONT of the
cooler. That is what I am doing indirectly with the sealing plate.
Hope this helps............
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying (in the cold Colorado air)
________________________________________________________________________________
A big problem has developed up here in the northeast involving crankshafts
that were ground and yellow tagged by NELSON GRINDING in Bedford, MA. It seems
that perfectly good crankshafts were being improperly ground using inferior
tools. After numerous failures (2 at our airport Danbury, CT)., the feds
investigated and shut the shop down. Our local shop had nine yellow tagged
cranks on the shelf from Nelson Grinding, after magnafluxing all 9, 7 of them
were found to be cracked.
Our local FSDO is busy trying to figure out the best course of action,
possibly issuing an A.D.. Both failures here occurred with less than 20 hrs.
since overhaul.
I understand the shop was in business for the last several years. I strongly
recommend that anybody who suspects that one of these cranks may be in their
engine, either check their yellow tags, or contact their overhaul facility. I
know of at least 2 reputable repair stations that have installed these cranks.
Repair stations are required to keep these records for 2 years and provide
overhaul details upon request free of charge.
Regards,
Bill Mahoney
Sherman, CT
RV-6 N747W
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
After the last primer war, I swayed back and forth and finally picked
AKZO. I just received an AKZO primer kit and had a couple of questions
and would like a response from AKZO users only please. You may respond
off-list if you prefer(primer wars get ugly!). Here's some background on
what I am doing. I plan to use Metalprep 79 and then Alodine before
applying AKZO. I live in Oklahoma and it's always windy here and I will
be priming outside. I have an Eastman paint/pesticide respirator with
organic filters and also another pre-filter built in.
QUESTIONS:
1. Give me some good ideas on easy ways to do the Metalprep and
Alodine steps. I thought about scrubbing with a scotch-brite pad
dipped in Metalprep, then rinsing with water, then Alodine while
still wet.
2. Any opinons about using the respirator and spraying outside in
the breeze? I don't want health problems.
3. Should I do one coat of primer or two light coats.
Appreciate the help.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6a Empennage ready to prime.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
Subject: | Easy Access Panel |
>I'm no where near this point but am day dreaming of panel
instillations,
>lots more fun than my accounting job. I'm sure everyone saw the picture
of
>the Young Eagles panel that removed in sections, as shown in SA
magazine.
>Has anyone run across a set of plans for a setup like this? My blood
>pressure is too high to be hanging upside down under the instrument
panel
>chasing wires.
I am working with him directly to get this information (and more) about
the removeable instrument panel on my web site for everybody. I for
one am definitely going to take this approach! Stay tuned, it will
probably
take a couple of weeks to get the information from him
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME working on the sliding canopy...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
Subject: | Windshield Antenna |
In the directions for the Van's supplied windscreen antenna, it mentions
installing a capacitor across the backs of the headset and mike jacks. I
assume this is the grounds, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone had
problems with this antenna or does it perform relatively well for VFR type
flying.
Your replys appreciated.
Charles Golden
N609CG 6A
Chevy Powered
Installing Panel
(Now I understand why people build aircraft with no electrical system)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)jps.net> |
Subject: | RV-4 Tank rear baffle |
I just searched the archive and couldn't find anything on this. I was
laying out the ribs on the rear baffle per DWG 17 last night and to my
shock and amazement the dimensions used in the print didn't match up to the
dimensions of the rear baffle. The dimensions from the print add up to
38.5 inches for the rear baffle, the actual rear baffle measures 39 inches.
Does the baffle need to be trimmed or should I just alter the print
dimensions to match the rear baffle?
I hope that was understandable.
--
Scott RV-4 #1054
Wings
rgy in the cockpit is MUCH higher
than if the antenna were outside in a more traditional location.
Depending on the pedigree of various gizmos on the panel, they
may object to the stronger radio frequency energy field. An objection
is registered by waging needles, jumping digits, and various other
behavior only while you are using the antenna to transmit.
The capacitors across the jacks has to be a precautionary measure
that may not be necessary. I'd install the antenna and then observe
other cockpit hardware for degraded performance. Add filters and/or
shielding to the systems that require it. Now, it may be that
Van's experience with MOST intercoms is that the capacitors are
needed and therefore suggests putting them on for every installation.
Either way, the intercom is but one potential victim and you'll
just have to try it and see what happens.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Has anyone used the pop rivet dimplers, which consist of a nail and dies
that are place in a pop rivet gun?
Do they do the job for the whole plane, or just the hard to reach areas?
Thanks...
Paul Besing
RV-6A QB (197AB)
Still Waiting on kit...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter) |
>There is no one way to do some of the things we do; there are many ways to
do >things as well as many products to use doing them.
>Have an open mind, read the LIST and make a decision based on common
>sense.
>
Right. This has to do with both answering questions, as well as remarking
about someone elses answer (grammar, for example). This list is to help
builders/flyers get their airplanes in the air, not a forum for showing
everyone how much you know. If it will help a builder with something
confusing (of which there are MANY), post it. If your purpose is to make
you look like Mr. Boeing himself, sent it to your mother-in-law and go kick
the dog. The LAST thing you want to do is discourage questions. Some of
the questions we ALL had initially, looking back on them, were rediculous.
Give the newbies the same consideration. Remember, this is a major source of
builder support; in some communities (even some with active builder groups)
it may be the ONLY source. Let's not ruin it.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | chris marion <flyrv6(at)cinci.infi.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List:Frederick Maryland RV forum |
Does anyone have any info on the Frederick Maryland builders forum?
Date, time, ect.
thanks
chris marion
rv-6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Which Sets and Dies |
Could someone tell me the following:
Which kind/sizes of hand squeezer rivet sets do I need? (flush, cupped, etc)
Which kind/sizes of hand squeezer dimple & dies do I need?
Which kind/sizes of rivet gun sets do I need? (flush, cupped, offsett, etc)
Thanks very much for your help with these confusing items!
I am diving into my tool catalogs trying to figure out what I REALLY need!
Paul Besing
RV-6A QB (197AB)
Still Waiting....
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
Subject: | Specific primer question |
All,
I decided to go with the Sherwin Williams Wash Primer #P60G2 and Catalyst Reducer
#R7K44, largely because it is listed in the RV-8 construction manual as being
acceptable. When I went to the local S/W Automotive store (the same store
where I was able to find the elusive GBP988 rattle-can primer), they didn't recognize
these specific products by name. After some discussion they happily sold
me some "E2G973 Vinyl Etch Primer" and "R7K242 Reducer".
Does anyone have experience with, or opinions on these products?
Thanks,
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
Advance, NC
RV-8 Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
I have a question for you users of the dimplers.
They are suppose to get into tight areas but if thats so how do you install
the nail?
The nail is a good 1" or longer, with that much room needed I can get my
regular dimpler in these tight places. Please help. Am I doing something
wrong?
John L. Danielson
Riveting wing spars / building another trim tab
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
>
>Has anyone used the pop rivet dimplers, which consist of a nail and dies
>that are place in a pop rivet gun?
>
>Do they do the job for the whole plane, or just the hard to reach areas?
>
>
>Thanks...
>
>Paul Besing
Paul,
They do an ugly job but will get some places you otherwise can't. You need
a set (1/8 and 3/32) but only use them where nothing else will do.
Leo Davies 6A engine and panel
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Jerry, first, about using both "metalprep" and Alodine: When I did my
research all the Sherwin Williams, Pratt&Lambert, and DuPont folks and
their written guides for treating aluminum said it was one or the
other. Either will prep the surface to improve adherance of the
primer. I use PPG Alodine, after scrubbing with PPG "degreaser solvent"
DX 330 and red Scotchbite pad to totally scuff away the shiney surface,
then wash in warm soapy water and rinse. I always wear neoprene rubber
gloves (durable to withstand scrubbing with abrasive pads, avail from
PPG).
I dry the parts before Alodining. The Alodine chemical "gets used up"
after about two ribs if you dip parts in the same tub of liquid, so now
I dip fresh liquid out of a cup as I "bath" each part for 1 to 3',
keeping it wet. The stain/color change doesn't improve much after a
minute or so. Rinse well and dry with paper towels or whatever to avoid
mineral spots from evaporating water - unless you use rain water, which
I happen to have.
I use a standard "Sears?" 2 cartridge filter mask and it provides pure,
clean smelling
air when I'm scrubbing with strong solvent, mixing and spraying.
I'm building in a 1 1/2 car garage and build a small paint booth on one
side of garage with a window. Built the booth of 3 mil construction
plastic tacked/duct taped to a few uprights. Put a hefty squirrel cage
blower in window to exhause fumes and draw in fresh air to keep
concentration of fumes lower.
I paid PPG $180 for a DeVilbiss HVLP gun and use it with a Sears 2 hp
20 gal tank, with system set at 80psi and regulator at handle of gun set
at 8 to 10psi, wetness 1/4 to 3/4 turn CCW from full "off/dry". It is 6
turns from full off to full "wet" but keeping it close to dry give you
control and lets you build your coverage in 2 to 3 passes, where you can
see what is happening. Gun has "round" pattern (use 1/4 turn from full
off/dry) and "fan" or "flat" vertical line of paint (use 3/4 to 1 turn
CCW from full dry), which I like to use as much as possible because you
don't put on too much and get runs. I only used round today to reach
out to places where I couldn't get gun close enough because of hose
interference - but cut the wetness when I did use it.
David Carter, RV-6 Horizontal Stab (rivet skins onto skeleton tomorrow),
Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Easy Access Panel |
This was indeed a slick-looking installation, and one that would pay dividends
anytime something is upgraded or repaired.
I went to lengths to make my entire panel removable (no sub-panels), and it
was no easy feat, nor are the results as useful as I would like. It _can_ be
done, but careful attention (read: after-the-fact rerouting of lots of tubes
and wires) will allow everything to disconnect and slide out like one of those
works-in-a-drawer Quasar TV's. It takes lots of Molex connectors, DIN and D-
sub connectors, tubing clamps, etc depending on the goodies in your panel, and
I'm not certain it will be installable/removable without _some_ upside-down-on
your-back time hooking a few hard-to-reach items up.
Keep a careful diagram of how everything goes together, including, where
necessary a 1-2-3 installation sequence and you should end up with a truly
removable panel for your efforts. There is a substantial up-front investment
of extra time in doing it this way. I can only speak for the tip-up 6A model,
BTW.
Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
<< capacitor across the backs of the headset and mike jacks. I
assume this is the grounds, >>
The cap is to bypass RF to groound, keeping it out of your mic and audio
circuits. It connects from the hot (tip) to the ground of each jack's
terminals. I don't think the PTT contact needs bypassing, but the mic and
phones would benefit from this treatment if they are to be in a strong RF
field from a nearby radiator (antenna).
Hope this helps.
Bill Boyd
planning to relocate wingtip antennas to the (fiberglass) gear leg fairings-
inverted-L style quarter-wave whips....
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
These dimplers are just for the hard to reach areas, it would take much too
long to do the whole airplane with them!
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Which Sets and Dies |
<< Which kind/sizes of hand squeezer rivet sets do I need? (flush, cupped,
etc)
Which kind/sizes of hand squeezer dimple & dies do I need?
Which kind/sizes of rivet gun sets do I need? (flush, cupped, offsett, etc)
>>
Try for starters: a few (at least 2) flush squeezer dies (may as well get
different heights), plus one each for the AN-3 and AN-4 rivets (cupped). The
AN-6's in the spar can't be squeezed, but you will need one cupped die this
size for the Avery Tool to set those spar rivets.
You will be dimpling size 3 and 4 holes (3/32 and 1/8") as well as the
occasional larger screw head (100 degree) Start with the #3 and #4 dimple die
sets and borrow/buy the rare ones later as needed.
A 3x rivet gun will do all you need, but some folks who can afford more than
one like the lighter touch of the 2x on thin metal. Get a good swivel-head
flush set with rubber guard, and also a _decent_ back rivet set (the cheap
ones are junk)
For your hand squeezer, let me suggest the 2" yoke (the three inch will reach
a few more holes that would otherwise have to be done on the Avery Tool (AKA
the sheet-scratcher) but it flexes too much to squeeze a 1/8 rivet without
cleating it over. You'll want a 1" yoke for really tight quarters too.
No way aroundan outlay of about $2k for tool to build these airplanes right.
If I had it to do over again I'd save time and frustration by shelling out
even more for lots of really good tools!!
Bill Boyd
Almost finished!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Flaring 1/8 Tubing |
If you are careful, an ice pick worked carefully into the end of the tubing
will flare it enough for the nut and sleeve to grip it down onto the flare and
finish the job "in assembly." My A&P taught me this trick. He's the guy with
all the holes in his left hand ;-)
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Mayer <S_Mayer(at)compuserve.com> |
Paul,
I've used the pop rivet dimpler, and it did and acceptable job dimpling
some parts of my HS. However, I find it faster and simpler to use the
Avery C-frame tool or squeezer to do the majority of the dimples in
my aircraft.
Steve
RV-4 emp.
>Has anyone used the pop rivet dimplers, which consist of a nail and dies
>that are place in a pop rivet gun?
>Do they do the job for the whole plane, or just the hard to reach areas?
>Thanks...
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A QB (197AB)
>Still Waiting on kit...
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Faster RVs Part 2 |
From: | ron.taborek(at)flight642.com (RON TABOREK) |
Here is a relatively simple yet relatively accurate way of finding out
if the Framus you added to your RV is speeding you up or slowing you
down.
GENERAL
The pilot should fly two sets of tests, one without and one with the
mod. Each set of tests should be done at two power settings at least,
more are better. At each power setting the pilot should fly three
tracks (not headings) 90 degrees apart, while maintaining altitude and
other factors constant.
The pilot should keep a lookout for other aircraft, keep constant
altitude and track, note instrument readings and record the data in the
form which follows. Having an observer/lookout and a tape recorder
along is a big help as is testing in smooth air.
Fly at any safe and convenient weight, altitude and temperature, as long
as conditions are recorded. Your (at least) two power settings should
bracket your speeds of interest, say 65% and 75% power. Doing the tests
at the same weight, altitude and temperature before and after the mods
will minimize subsequent corrections but is not really necessary. The
data will be reduced to standard reference conditions.
You will need a GPS, clock, ASI, altimeter, OAT, RPM and manifold
pressure instruments and power/altitude charts for your engine.
TEST PROCEDURE
Before take-off record
1) Is airspeed to be in mph or knots?
2) Is temperature to be in deg F or C?
3) What propeller do you have? How many blades? What diameter in inches?
4) What aircraft? What empty, crew, fuel, oil and equipment weight?
5) At take-off record the time of day.
When you get to test altitude, set the altimeter to 29.92 to read
pressure altitude and record the time starting the tests.
6) Set the power level to be tested, fly at constant altitude and, when
stabilized, record RPM, manifold pressure, OAT and altitude.
7) Fly a constant altitude and track using GPS. Record track, IAS and
ground speed when the readings stabilize.
8) Without changing power and altitude slowly turn left or right to a
track 90 deg from the first and again record track, IAS and ground
speed.
9) Without changing power and altitude, turn another 90 deg in the same
direction (you are on the reciprocal of your first track) and record
track, IAS and ground speed again.
10) Record the time the tests were completed and the maximum altitude
deviation which occurred.
Tests for this power setting have now been completed. Repeat steps 6) to
11) with the next power setting.
12) When tests at all power settings are complete, reset altimeter
before landing.
13) Make the modifications to be tested and repeat steps 1) to 12).
At this point you will have at least two sets of speed and power data
before the mods and two after, ready for analysis. Part 3 will describe
the analysis.
Testing requires a lot of attention inside the cockpit. Remember a
"heads up" as well.
ron.taborek(at)flight642.com RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au> |
Hi Paul,
definitely only for those hard to reach areas.
Cheers
John Morrissey
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Besing [SMTP:rv8er(at)doitnow.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 12:42 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Pop Dimplers
>
>
> Has anyone used the pop rivet dimplers, which consist of a nail and
> dies
> that are place in a pop rivet gun?
>
> Do they do the job for the whole plane, or just the hard to reach
> areas?
>
>
> Thanks...
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A QB (197AB)
> Still Waiting on kit...
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)home.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Has anyone used the pop rivet dimplers ..
Paul,
I have found the pop rivet dimplers _far_ inferior to the regular dimple dies,
both in
terms of the quality of the result and ease-of-use. There are a few places on
the
airframe where the pop rivet dimplers are the only solution, but I consider it
a
last
resort.
I have peeked ahead to your next post about riveting tools in general. You are
going
to get a variety of recommendations. I believe a craftsman with a little patience
could
build an entire RV with no more riveting tools than a 3X gun, flush and 1/8"
cupped
rivet sets, and a couple (well, OK 3 to 5) bucking bars.
At the other end of the scale, there are one or two builders that have had custom
yokes
made ( 3/4" thick steel, 24" throat, cost $500+ dollars) for squeezing rivets in
the skins
of the flying surfaces, although a majority of us (and no doubt Van himself)
consider this
downright silly.
It appears to me that the typical RV "lister" (myself included), is somewhat of
a
"tool
junkie" who welcomes an excuse to spend $10-$50 for that nifty tool that we "need"
to finish our airplanes. I consider a quality hand squeezer (Avery or Tatco) at
$100+
to be a wise investment, but I balk at $400 for a pneumatic squeezer. Yet there
are
some folks who can't live without one.
With a little patience, you can build a safe and even very pretty RV with no more
than
the minimal set of tools listed in Van's construction manuals. More and better
tools
make the going a little easier, but it seems builder tool "requirements" are
determined
more by personality and financial status than by anything else (perhaps this
applies to
primers as well!).
I noticed from an earlier post that you are in Scottsdale. I live in the near
Tatum and
Bell (about 2 miles north of Paradise Valley Mall).
Regards,
Blake Harral
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Which Sets and Dies |
> From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
> I am diving into my tool catalogs trying to figure out what I REALLY
need!
> Paul Besing
Paul,
It sounds like you have lots of tool questions.
I compiled my QB tool research into an Excel spreadsheet I would be glad to
provide to anyone on request. Mind you it, and its prices, are dated 8/96
so you will need to do some updating on your own.
However, I have used *every* tool (and then some) on it so it should be a
good starting point (for std. kit builders as well since you basically need
the same stuff).
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
> One other thing, If you only have 5% left to go you better make up your mind
> in a hurry. Some of these guys will take up to 6 months to build your prop!
> They are very busy.
Prop business must be good...today I learned of a three month delay on
my Sensenich metal prop ordered from Van....
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX, -6A cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
From: | ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
>In the directions for the Van's supplied windscreen antenna, it
>mentions installing a capacitor across the backs of the headset and mike
jacks.
>I assume this is the grounds, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone
>had problems with this antenna or does it perform relatively well for
VFR
>type flying.
I know some people don't like that antenna, but I have used it for over a
year and it works great. Plenty of range, cheap, light weight and NO
drag. All of my favorite things. I too inquired about the caps and was
told that some installations don't need it while others do, and to try it
without them first. Mine works fine without them. I'm not sure exactly
how they are wired if necessary though.
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/
-
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
>Has anyone used the pop rivet dimplers, which consist of a nail and dies
>that are place in a pop rivet gun?
>
>Do they do the job for the whole plane, or just the hard to reach areas?
Hey, Paul: I have a set for both AN-3 and AN-4 rivets. Came in handy many
times in tight and just plain goofy spaces. Even though they were supposed
to be for the angle of a pulled rivet, I don't think they were: more for the
standard rivets, but work for the pulled. I would recommend them only for
occasional use and not the whole airplane.
Michael
arry. I used the P60G2 and it worked very well. Tough as nails, and
easy to shoot. I'm not familiar with the Vinyl Etch primer, and I would
contact another SW distributor to see if you can find the P60G2.
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
Now the other question..
Read my posting from yesterday and you will see question about
windshields. Tip-up or slide.
In the project I bought, it had an IO-360-A1B engine. Vans does not like
these types of conversions and I understand why. Specifically, he
designed an aircraft for certain engines and to deviate means he was not
involved in the testing. He should have been. But I have to use what I
have. Therefore I need input from those of you who have an RV6 with 200
hp in it. what I want to know is things like W&B, any structural mods
needed to be done, operating parameters, etc...
Tnx Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Specific primer question |
I was told by my local distributor that these are one and the same. It also
looks the same as the QB primer when applied, if mixed at the 2-1 ratio
Van's suggests. If you don't put enough reducer in it, it will come out
stringy.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>All,
>
>I decided to go with the Sherwin Williams Wash Primer #P60G2 and Catalyst
Reducer #R7K44, largely because it is listed in the RV-8 construction manual
as being acceptable. When I went to the local S/W Automotive store (the
same store where I was able to find the elusive GBP988 rattle-can primer),
they didn't recognize these specific products by name. After some
discussion they happily sold me some "E2G973 Vinyl Etch Primer" and "R7K242
Reducer".
>
>Does anyone have experience with, or opinions on these products?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Larry
>larry(at)bowen.com
>Advance, NC
>RV-8 Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | less_drag(at)juno.com |
Subject: | Re: Ivoprop info |
writes:
(Snip)
>If we have concerns we should have someone look at that,
>if we are not sure.
>Any further inquiries can be addressed to
>Brad Bundy
>bundyb(at)infowest.com
>Owner/Pilot, not builder but learner of a Chard 6 of the which
>I have much more "experimenting" to do.
>S/N 002
>N48AC
Hi Brad,
Great posting.
I tried to send you an answer on AOL, but it was returned.
Thin the Aileron Trailing Edge on the Light Wing to get them in balance.
Just a little bit at a time.
Or with a rubber mallet, bump the Aileron Trailing Edge Bigger on the
Heavy Wing, if your trailing edge radius is already 3/16" diameter or
less.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Avery and Cleveland have always been my favorites but at Copperstate I met a
very nice man who has a company called Airbolt. He has some very nice tools
and some excellent dimple sets at very good prices. He had a number of nifty
angle drills and an expensive (to me) c- frame tool for adaptation to the
pneumatic squeezers we all seem to have or want. For example his 6pc #6-8-10
screw dimple set was 67.75$. Anyway, he is just another source for that
special tool you just have to have. His number is 800-736-4123. He is a Kfox
3 builder and seems knoweledgeable in our RV sheetmetal needs also. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | 6A Tanked at Last |
From: | "William H. Watson" <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net> |
I'm just about finished with the 6A left fuel tank; here are my thoughts for those
who haven't reached this point and who may have some trepidation or concerns.
General:
Be extra careful with rib preparation and later with drilling alignment - you
don't want to deal with edge problems here. I used an ice pick to get spot-on
alignment.
Study the drawing carefully as there are some really critical alignments and
edge placements you want to achieve.
Set the depth of your machine countersink tool so that the heads will be flush,
especially under gaskets.
Specifics:
The Cleveland "tank" dimple dies really work well; all my rivets are nice and
flush.
You've heard this many times: get the Avery swivel mushroom riveting head.
I did the whole tank alone, with no smileys. Using the riveting cradle is essential.
Notice that the rivet spacing on the root and outer rib/baffle are different
than the interior ribs (I didn't).
The welding brush from Avery does a nice job of scuffing the aluminum; IMHO,
scotch bright pads alone are not aggressive enough.
I suggest doing the root rib as a single session; it's not worth rushing.
It took some doing, but pull the skin down to the 1" seam line, front and back.
If you don't, you will have plate nuts and rivets with nasty edge problems
on the spar doubler, tank baffle, and main spar.
My sender goes from 30 to 200 ohms (not per drawing) and has a dead zone at
the empty end of the range. I'm using 5 inches for the second bend ( much more
than the drawing).
BTW, the black death/pro-seal is not that bad, just don't try to be a perfectionist
on the inside of the tank (seal it up, then show your friends). Have fun.
Bill Watson
6A Left Wing
Mountain View CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
Subject: | bleeding brake lines!#*!*# |
Would appreciate any advice on filling and bleeding air out of the brake
lines. I am not having very good luck! Purchased one of the bleeder tanks
from A/C Spruce. Seems to work well enough, pumps up to about 80psi. This is
attached to the port on the bottom of the brake unit and the fluid is pumped
up through the system and into the resevoir. The problem is that each time I
do this procedure, and have the fluid flowing good, with no visible bubbles,
as soon as I shut the pump off and close the port I get fairly good size air
bubbles(pockets) in the filler lines. These are the plastic lines that go from
the master cylinder to the resevoir. The brakes work good and feel normal,(not
mushy). Any thoughts?
Walt RV-6A #21611 (Inspection scheduled for this Sunday!)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: f-615 seat rib RV-6A |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>Not stupid at all. You have to look at the plans closely but it does
>>show that the seat rib also should be curved to approximate the curve
>on
>>the arm rest.
>>Fear not builders if you already have skinned but didn't do so (My
>>personal RV-6A which was the first one I built has straight seat
>ribs)
>>the only effect it really has on the airplane is a different trim of
>the
>>wing root fairings.
>>
>>
>>Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
>>
>Scott,
>I have heard that a straight fuse. side extending from the wing
>leading edge
>for the length of the chord increases speed. This along with a 'cone
>section' root fairing (a la Spitfire) will pick up a few free knots.
>Any
>truth in this? Is a straight seat rib better?
>
>
>Royce Craven
>RV6A Engine etc....
>Melbourne OZ
>
>
>
>
I don't know about the speed increase or whether curved is better, but
leaving the rib straight wont really give you a straight side any way.
The armrest is curved the same as the upper longeron, so trying to keep
the rib straight (it gets curved by the skin somewhat) doesn't really
happen.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>
>>Is that correct or should the opening in the baffle be about the same
>size
>>as the oil cooler??
>>
>>Thanks for the help.
>>
>>Bob Cabe
>>San Antonio
>
>Even in SA, I doubt you'll need all of the opening. I've got an RV-6
>with
>the 150 HP O-320 and put the oil cooler in back of the left rear
>cylinder.
>I only have an opening about half the size of the cooler and I'm hard
>pressed to get the oil temp into the green even when the temperature
>is in
>the 80's (it does happen here occasionally). I keep the exit side of
>the
>cooler partially blocked year round, too.
>
>
>
>John Ammeter
>ammeterj(at)seanet.com
>Seattle WA USA
>1974 1/2 JH-5
>RV-6 N16JA
>First flight August 1990
>
>
>
>From what I have seen with different RV's the one thing I know is that
they are all different.
A lot of factors effect the oil temp. How hard or easy you run the
engine, and at how high of RPM.
I have also noticed that most of the oil cooling systems in RV's have a
critical (for lack of any other description) OAT. Any temp above this
produces a higher steady oil temp.
For some RV's the difference between 85 F. and 95 F. can produce much
more than a 10 deg jump in oil temp.
My personal recommendation to builders is to design for the maximum
cooling available (unless you live somewhere that rarely gets above 80
deg. and you are sure you will never go anywhere that does) and adjust as
needed for your conditions/situation later.
The ultimate test isn't even just flying in higher temps but is a
situation as follows...
Flying on a cross country trip on a rather hot day. Need to stop for
fuel in lets say Gallupe (spell?) New Mexico. Elevation is around 5700
ft. or so. You are on the ground long enough to stretch and get fuel (30
minutes) so the engine gets well heat soaked.
You taxi for takeoff with the density altitude beyond 10,000 ft.
The take off is no problem (even with 160 HP and a fixed pitch prop)
but as you climb through 8500 ft you happen to glance at the oil temp.
Woe, I've never seen it that high before...
It would be very common for a lot of RV's (using maximum oil cooling) to
have an oil temp of 230 - 235 deg at the end of the climb to altitude.
Yes, possibly even an RV that wont even get to 180 deg when the ground
elevation temp is 60 deg.
Don't build yourself short. It's a lot easier to reduce the cooling when
you need to than it is improve it.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
Subject: | Re: Easy Access Panel |
Eric,
I have just completed a panel for slider type RV-6 that hinges the basic
six flight instruments to the left, and six other (fuel, volts,amps,oil
temp, oil press) instruments down. The tach, MAP, G-meter, vacuum gage,
egt/cht are all 2 1/4 gages, in a line above the basic six flight
instruments. Therefore all instruments are either accessable by being
hinged themselves or by being positioned around the perimeter of the
hinged opening. If you are interested in more detail I'll send you a
layout sketch if you send me your address.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I use them in the hard-to-reach areas and the regular dimple dies
everywhere else. The regular dies do a better job.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Fitting side skins to the fuselage
-----Original Message-----Has anyone used the pop rivet
dimplers, which consist of a nail and dies
that are place in a pop rivet gun?
Do they do the job for the whole plane, or just the hard to
reach areas?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
John,
You are probably referring to the tip rivet holes on aileron and
elevator ribs, etc. The method I use is to just bend the rib flanges
apart enough to insert the nail. Set both opposing dimples, remove the
nail, then use the hand seamer to realign the flanges as necessary. I
have been able to reach all rivet holes using this method.
Crude but effective....
Sam Buchanan (riveting spars.......oh, my aching knees....)
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
JDaniel343(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I have a question for you users of the dimplers.
> They are suppose to get into tight areas but if thats so how do you install
> the nail?
> The nail is a good 1" or longer, with that much room needed I can get my
> regular dimpler in these tight places. Please help. Am I doing something
> wrong?
>
> John L. Danielson
>
> Riveting wing spars / building another trim tab
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
Scott,
Thanks for the excellent answer on oil cooler installation.
Bob Cabe
San Antonio
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
>
>>In the directions for the Van's supplied windscreen antenna, it
>>mentions installing a capacitor across the backs of the headset and mike
>jacks.
>>I assume this is the grounds, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone
>
>>had problems with this antenna or does it perform relatively well for
>VFR
>>type flying.
>
>
>
>I know some people don't like that antenna, but I have used it for over a
>year and it works great. Plenty of range, cheap, light weight and NO
>drag. All of my favorite things. I too inquired about the caps and was
>told that some installations don't need it while others do, and to try it
>without them first. Mine works fine without them. I'm not sure exactly
>how they are wired if necessary though.
You would need one capacitor per jack. On the microphone jack, it is
wired from the ground (sleeve) terminal to the microphone (ring)
terminal of the jack. On the head sets, it's wired from ground (sleeve)
terminal and the hot (tip) terminal . . . if you have stereo headsets,
there will be an extra channel (ring) terminal which will need a
capactor to ground too.
The capacitors are tiny . . . about the size of a match head with
itty-bitty leads. Not difficult to add. I'll echo Ed's advice and
suggest adding NO filters on any system until you know that you need
them.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
The nail is a good 1" or longer, with that much room needed I can get my
> regular dimpler in these tight places. Please help. Am I doing something
> wrong?
For the really tight spots I have used two methods:
1. cut the nail head off and use a vice grip to hold the female die in place.
2. squeeze the dies together with pliers (no nail)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
>planning to relocate wingtip antennas to the (fiberglass) gear leg fairings-
>inverted-L style quarter-wave whips....
Oops! The Bob Archer style wingtip antennas are predominately horizontally
polarized . . . optimum for VOR/LOC service. The 1/4 wave antenna on the
gear leg will be predominately vertically polarized, more suitable for
for COM use. It's true that from altitude, a wet string hung over the
side of the cockpit will function at some performance level as an antenna
but if one is concerned for the details, wingtip antennas are an
apples-for-oranges replacement for vertical spike antennas.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
Subject: | RMD Aircraft Lighting |
I called subject this date @ 503-681-0685 and get message "line is no longer
in service...."
Anyone know another number or status of RMD ?
Phil Rogerson 6AQ 60057
Fernandina Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gene Gottschalk <Gene.A.Gottschalk.1(at)gsfc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Frederick Maryland RV forum |
Chris and other interested Listers,
The Frederick Maryland EAA Chapter 524 regrets to announce that the RV
Forum has been canceled. Due to declining enrollment and finical losses
incurred over the past few years we can no longer afford to hold the forum.
We felt that because of the growing number of more locally sponsored RV
forums and other sources of information dissemination (such as this great
list), the number of participants would continue to decline. We are,
however, sponsoring the Alexander Sport Air Workshop one or two times a
year. These seminars have a metal workshop for those that wish to gain
actual hands on experience with aluminum airplane construction. Check
http://www.sportair.com/ for information and dates. June 13 & 14 is the
next scheduled workshop date for Frederick, Maryland.
-Gene Gottschalk
EAA Chapter 524
Frederick, Maryland
>
>Does anyone have any info on the Frederick Maryland builders forum?
>Date, time, ect.
>thanks
>
>chris marion
>rv-6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack K. Holley" <jkholley(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Which Sets and Dies |
Importance: Normal
>
> I compiled my QB tool research into an Excel spreadsheet I would be glad
to
> provide to anyone on request. Mind you it, and its prices, are dated 8/96
> so you will need to do some updating on your own.
>
I am starting to tool up for an RV6. If you don't mind, I'd like a copy of
that spreadsheet. Thanks!
Jack K. Holley
jkholley(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
Subject: | Re: Helping? or Hacking?? (Chatter)) |
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
[snip]
> I've been on the internet for about 10 years and have been a
member of
> many lists, I'm not new to this. I know there are certain threads
that
> keep coming back again and again. All the more reason to address
these
> recurrent threads in more detail in the FAQ--or set up a web page
with
> questions, answers, and perhaps a comparisson of options
available.
Thats a great idea. There's only one problem: who's going to do
it?
Matt? He has his hands full already. I was the one who originally
created the FAQ ....
Agreed about Matt and I commend you for your work.
I have requested input for the FAQ before but never recieved any
input
from anyone else.
This is a big problem. New guys want to know about primer. Old guys
already have selected their primer for whatever reason and don't want to
hear any more about it. If no one wants to contribute to a FAQ on this
subject then the old guys are going to have to get used to the fact (faqt?)
that these questions will arise again and again and again and.....
Primers and Ivoprop are two that I just don't have the experience,
time or inclination to address. If someone thinks they can
objectively compose a distillation of the more fact-based postings
about these subjects (or any other for that matter), I would be
happy
to add them to the FAQ.
I probably have even less experience than you but I would be happy to....
So who's going to do this? I nominate Scott VanArtsdalen :-)
Oh, I see. :-] Well I would be happy to do a primer section for the FAQ.
This may even help me with my primer selection. I will try to start
collecting the names of various primers this weekend.
Okay Randall, here's the tricky part:
If anyone could please email me directly with any information on the
primer(s) they use, preparation techniques, application techniques,
safety/health hazzards, interaction information, I will start trying to
compile a primer section to the FAQ.
I am more than willing to contribute to the group if I can gather the
information. Want to see what I did for my old Aeronca mailing list
buddies? Take a look at: http://www.jps.net/svanarts
--
Scott VanArtsdalen (RV4 #1054, left wing in jig)
Network and System Administrator
Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
Phone: 408-743-2224
Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776
Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
Subject: | elevator access door nutplates |
I apologize for wasting bandwidth. Will the lister who had asked for
photos of my access door & servo installation please email me again. I
erased your email address and I have more (clearer) photos for you.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | RV-6A side skins |
A while ago I posted a message about forming the cone-shaped aft end of
the F-670 side skins. I recall saying something about how the curve
looked like I had made it using stone tools, etc.
I want to tell all that after a week of patiently working with the side
skin, it not only tucks in nicely under the bottom skin like the plans
say it will, but it also looks heart-warmingly good.
Never give up.
Steve Soule
Fuselage in the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
Did anyone say what value cap. to use? I missed it. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 Tank rear baffle |
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
> Does the baffle need to be trimmed or should I just alter the print
> dimensions to match the rear baffle?
>
> Scott, I wouldn't alter the print. Measure the width of the skin to see if it
> would be wide enough for the extra 1/2". Also if you leave the extra length,
it
> will come out on the endboard end of the tank. You may need that space for the
> plumbing at the endboard end.
Carroll Bird RV-4 (Hope to fly this summer.)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau) |
Subject: | Re: Cancellation of Frederick Maryland RV forum |
Bummer.....I was looking forward to attending again this year!!
I guess I'll have to wait for the New York weekend at the end of the
summer.
Paul M. Bilodeau
pbilodeau(at)att.com
732-957-6611
RV-6A Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | emcole(at)ix.netcom.com (Edward Cole) |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
You wrote:
>
>
>Has anyone used the pop rivet dimplers, which consist of a nail and
dies
>that are place in a pop rivet gun?
>
>Do they do the job for the whole plane, or just the hard to reach
areas?
>
>
>Thanks...
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A QB (197AB)
>Still Waiting on kit...
Paul,
I use them for hard to reach places like up against the bends in the
control surfaces or anywhere the C-tool can't get into. You wouldn't
want to use it all the time as it is slow and not as controllable.
I've even got a spare set that is ground flat on one side to get into
ribs where I'm a little close to the web.
Ed Cole
RV6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: bleeding brake lines!#*!*# |
>Would appreciate any advice on filling and bleeding air out of the brake
>lines. I am not having very good luck! Purchased one of the bleeder tanks
>from A/C Spruce. Seems to work well enough, pumps up to about 80psi. This is
>attached to the port on the bottom of the brake unit and the fluid is pumped
>up through the system and into the resevoir. The problem is that each time I
>do this procedure, and have the fluid flowing good, with no visible bubbles,
>as soon as I shut the pump off and close the port I get fairly good size air
>bubbles(pockets) in the filler lines. These are the plastic lines that go from
>the master cylinder to the resevoir. The brakes work good and feel normal,(not
>mushy). Any thoughts?
>
>Walt RV-6A #21611 (Inspection scheduled for this Sunday!)
Walt,
Make sure that the brake system offers little resistance when filling. You
have an 80 psi pump, that will be gross overkill for this system. The fluid
will flow with very little effort as long as the system was installed
correctly. Your problem sounds very similar to what I just went through a
few weeks ago.
During my initial bleeding (about a year ago), the system was back filled,
as you are doing, without any problems. After the plane had about 50 hours
on it, there were bubbles in the clear lines from the pilot master cylinders
to the pax master cylinders, resulting in soft brakes on the pax side. I
tried to add fluid using the same low pressure filler as before and was
unable to. There was now a significant restriction somewhere in the line.
It was traced to a blockage at the tee fitting that goes into the reservoir.
Upon disassembly, it looked clean, but somehow was not allowing fluid to
pass. I might have overtightened the nuts on this tee. As the brake pads
started to wear, and the pax brakes were depressed, the fluid was unable to
flow from the reservoir and air was pulled into the system. I haven't seen
any air enter the system since this blockage was fixed.
Hope this helps. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask
and good luck on your inspection.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
Subject: | Installing NACA inlet ? |
I am getting ready to install the NACA inlets (SV-1) on the sides of my
6A.
The plans call for using rivets and RTV. I don't think that will hold up
as well as proseal as George O. uses in his video/plane. That seems a
bit messy though. Has anyone tried the 3M tape and if so how long have
they been attached? I think that would be a good solution as long as
they didn't end up falling off, which would be a bad thing.
Don Mack RV-6A
donmack(at)allways.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard TREANOR <rtreanor(at)ci.sunnyvale.ca.us> |
Raining here in SF Bay Area, so thought I'd brighten up your day a little
with a short story to prove there is alway someone "dumber".
Finished my rear HS spar and proceeded to bolt on my HS-411 hinge
assembly. Deftly place AN3-5 a bolt in correct hole...so far so good! I've
never used a click type of torque wrench so... I ran back in the house
and re-reviewed Orndorf tape of said procedure. Sure enough he
tightened bolt and at the proscribed 20-25 in/pounds the wrench gave a
'chunk' and appeared to release.
Run back out to the garage. Began tightening bolt...no 'chunk'! Kept
tightening bolt...still no 'chunk'! Yes, kept tightening...finally a 'chunk'!
The
bolt snapped in half, falling on the bench. Hmm, must be a bad bolt. Tried
again, this time I sripped the bolt! What a lousy torque wrench!!! Yeah
that's it, should have bought the $200 Snap-On tool.
Engineer friend came over last night and examined the offending
wrench. It was just fine! The big 'chunk' that I expected was a really a
tiny 'click'.
Ignorance is not bliss!
Rich Treanor
Sunnyvale, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
In a message dated 2/19/98 11:55:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
lottmc(at)datastar.net writes:
<< lottmc(at)datastar.net >>
Per info on rv list I read .01 cap.
Dave
RV6(Eng.next)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 Tank rear baffle |
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>
> I just searched the archive and couldn't find anything on this. I was
> laying out the ribs on the rear baffle per DWG 17 last night and to my
> shock and amazement the dimensions used in the print didn't match up to the
> dimensions of the rear baffle. The dimensions from the print add up to
> 38.5 inches for the rear baffle, the actual rear baffle measures 39 inches.
> Does the baffle need to be trimmed or should I just alter the print
> dimensions to match the rear baffle?
>
> I hope that was understandable.
Since no one else seems to have answered, I'll take a stab at this.
BTW, my experience comes from a -6, but I think the situation is
similar. I was laying out my rear baffle and had spare baffle left over
until I realize that the outboard rib was for the other tank and was
facing inboard. With the proper rib and the flange facing outboard,
everything was just fine. This brain fade on my part lasted longer than
I care to admit; thank heavens I didn't drill or cut anything. If that
is not your problem, then I would contact Vans. I found on my -6 kit
that the plans and material were correct; I cannot speak for the -4.
Good luck.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: bleeding brake lines!#*!*# |
>Would appreciate any advice on filling and bleeding air out of the brake
>lines. I am not having very good luck! Purchased one of the bleeder tanks
>from A/C Spruce. Seems to work well enough, pumps up to about 80psi. This is
>attached to the port on the bottom of the brake unit and the fluid is pumped
>up through the system and into the resevoir. The problem is that each time I
>do this procedure, and have the fluid flowing good, with no visible bubbles,
>as soon as I shut the pump off and close the port I get fairly good size
air
>bubbles(pockets) in the filler lines. These are the plastic lines that go
from
>the master cylinder to the resevoir. The brakes work good and feel
normal,(not
>mushy). Any thoughts?
>
>Walt RV-6A #21611 (Inspection scheduled for this Sunday!) >>
Hi All,
I use a small cheap oil pump can filled with hydraulic fluid to back fill my
brakes. Just attach a flexible tube between the end of the oil can nozzle and
the brake caliper fitting.
I saw a problem similar to what you discribe on a two place A/C brake system.
The person was using a pressurized can system to back fill the brake system.
No visible bubbles in the lines (clear plastic type), until later.
It reminded me of a story I had heard about how the fizz is put in soda pop.
All that is required is to pressurize the drink solution to 5 atmospheres
(75psi) and then seal the drink solution in a bottle.
Jim Ayers
Less_Drag(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Specific primer question |
Larry,
I used the P60G2 wash primer with good results. It's very tough and easy to
apply, but just make sure you mix the combined components about twice as long
as you think is necessary. Otherwise you might initially get some very
stringy ejecta from your spray gun. Not that I have any first hand
experience with that, you understand. : )
Joel
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Leif Stener" <leif.stener(at)swipnet.se> |
Subject: | Installing NACA inlet ? |
----------
> Frn: Mack, Don
> Till: Rv-List (E-mail)
> mne: RV-List: Installing NACA inlet ?
> Datum: den 19 februari 1998 18:04
>
>
> I am getting ready to install the NACA inlets (SV-1) on the sides of my
> 6A.
>
> The plans call for using rivets and RTV. I don't think that will hold up
> as well as proseal as George O. uses in his video/plane. That seems a
> bit messy though. Has anyone tried the 3M tape and if so how long have
> they been attached? I think that would be a good solution as long as
> they didn't end up falling off, which would be a bad thing.
>
> Don Mack RV-6A
> donmack(at)allways.net
> http://www.flash.net/~donmack/
>
Hi Don!
I installed the NACA inlets whit Proseal and oops-rivet ( about 8
rivets). The oops-rivets alow you to countersink the sheet but not the NACA
inlet. The sheet is curvd in top, and you must have space for your rudder
ped. I think the Proseal it self want hold the inlet in that curvd place.
Leif Stener RV-6, Sweden, riveting the top skin.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
<< Oops! The Bob Archer style wingtip antennas are predominately horizontally
polarized . . . optimum for VOR/LOC service. The 1/4 wave antenna on the
gear leg will be predominately vertically polarized, more suitable for
for COM use. It's true that from altitude, a wet string hung over the
side of the cockpit will function at some performance level as an antenna
but if one is concerned for the details, wingtip antennas are an
apples-for-oranges replacement for vertical spike antennas.
>>
Bob: I think this polarity thing gets run into the ground; consider your own
point about the wet string...
Every time we bank an airplane we affect the polarity of all radiators
attached thereto, with virtually no noticeable effect.
The inverted L which I plan to make will extend down the trailing edge of my
homemade gear leg fairings (glass/epoxy) for perhaps 8-10 (at the same slant
as the gear leg, of course) before turning sharply aft along the slipstream
lines as a length of telescoping tube/whip (maybe with small corona ball).
Any way you puzzle this geometry, it's a sloping overall polarity. Most of
the current will be in the roughly vertical portion, while most of the voltage
will be on the horizontal segment. After it interacts with the metal of the
gear leg, it won't make a hill of beans difference what polarity I started out
trying to achieve. My guess is it will be "Q-5 copy" from any reasonable
distance. I plan to build it, tune it, and forget about it! One for 108-138
Mhz, and the other for 144-148 Mhz, which will keep the airframe drag
symmetrical ; -)
Thwe wingtip antennas I have decided to abandon are not commercially
available- they are my own design of copper foil dipoles and would have been
masively shielded 180 degrees by the wing tip rib and associated structure.
It looks so impractical now that I'm going to dismantle them before ever
putting them in service. This will also save the weight of two RG-58 runs the
length of the wings.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TPhilpin(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Primers / Corrosion - Cessna's Current Process |
Dear List Members:
In my own research of corrosion control and primers for interior structures I
spoke with many product technical reps who were either helpful but uninformed
or extremely product biased without a clear cost benefit persepctive. In
order to obtain more objective (interpert this as end user) input I spoke with
a member of the engineering department at Cessna Aircraft. The engineer was
kind enough to speak with me at length and shared the following:
Cessna assumes worse case enviornment for their products - salt air
enviornment not unlike Florida or worse.
They currently offer a 20 year guaranty against corrosion on some of their
current GA airframes. In order to achieve this level of corrosion resistance,
Cessna uses Alclad whenever possible, and has the following process for the
treatment of all aluminum parts prior to assembly:
1. A deoxidizing degreasing treatment - namely an acid etch
2. A chromic substrate conversion treatment in vats - Alodine is a product
name
3. All surfaces are sprayed with a two part catalyzed epoxy primer that meets
Mil Spec P2337F. In order to meet this mil spec the epoxy primer must contain
strontium or zinc chromates which protects the surface even if the primer is
subsequently scratched during assembly. This engineer firmly believes
nothing else has been found to adequately replace the chromates.
All parts are then assembled.
When ready for exterior painting, the surface is primed again using the two
part primer to seal any scratches etc that have occurred during assembly.
The finish top coat is a polyurethane product giving a 6 mil finished surface.
It is believed that this process adds about 15 lbs to the typical GA light
aircraft.
In areas subject to exotic hydraulic fluids, Cessna uses a fuel bay primer
from Dexter Aerospace which is slightly brittle and used only when necessary.
Ordinary Zinc Chromate is no longer used because it never really cures (unlike
the catalyzed products), and as a result can be disolved by fuels or other
chemicals used later on in the painting process.
Hopefully this information may prove helpful to current and future builders
when deciding the products and efforts to be utilized in building their own
aircraft.
Respetfully submitted,
Tony Philpin, CT builder
RV - 8 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Subject: | Twin Cities Rv Forum |
Fellow Listers:
Just saw the note regarding the cancellation of the East Coast Forum which
is unfortunate. Putting on such an event is a major commitment with many
variables.
Just another reminder however, that the 4th Annual Twin Cities RV Forum is
planned for Saturday May 2, 1998 in Red Wing, MN. For those in the upper
Midwest we are hoping that this will be an informative and worthwhile event.
It is a day long gathering with a lineup of RV speakers, lots of doorprizes,
a sheet metal workshop (we'll build an RV-6 vertical stabilizer and give it
away as our grand prize!) John Morgan from Van's Aircraft will be here with
one of the RV demo ships. An evening banquet is planned at the beautifully
restored St. James Hotel in Red Wing.
All RV enthusiast are invited especially flyin RVs . If you'd like to be
added to our mailing list to receive our March newsletter which will have
all the details, drop me an email off the list. Our if you have any other
questions, let me know.
Doug Weiler, pres, MN Wing
*******************************************
Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Colin Strong <Colin_Strong(at)ccm2.hf.intel.com> |
Subject: | Specific primer question |
What do you mean by "twice as long"?
I have had the 'blotchy' gun output problem and I have heard that it is a good
idea to mix it two parts to one instead of the 1.5 parts to one as recommended
by SW. Is that what you mean?
"but just make sure you mix the combined components about twice as long as you
think is necessary. "
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Installing NACA inlet ? |
> The plans call for using rivets and RTV. I don't think that will hold up
> as well as proseal as George O. uses in his video/plane. That seems a
> bit messy though.
Working with this small amount of proseal really isn't bad (not even
close to as bad as doing the tanks). A little messy, yes, but no big
deal.
> Has anyone tried the 3M tape and if so how long have
> they been attached? I think that would be a good solution as long as
> they didn't end up falling off, which would be a bad thing.
I've used the 3m tape for non-airplane parts and wouldn't hesitate to
use it for this application. Once you get it on there, you'd better
not ever want to get it off again! Just be sure to let it "cure" for
a while because it doesn't get to full strength until after it's been
on for a while.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pmbs(at)probe.mt.att.com (Paul M Bilodeau) |
Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
Rich,
this is a characteristic of my Harbor Freight Torque Wrench also...and
I only had to send it back twice to find out that George's click wasn't
the same as my wrench's click........
Self-induced frustration mode off !!!!
Paul M. Bilodeau
pbilodeau(at)att.com
732-957-6611
RV-6A Empennage
Building Horizontal Stabilizer.....
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com |
In response to the writer who was comparing airframes earlier, I have
invested much time comparing the MII with the RV6/6A. I am about to
make my decision. Here is what has surfaced as important to me.
The folding wing of the MII can save tens of thousands of dollars of
hangar rent in just a few years.
Over a period of ten years, in my area that would be $36,000. Mustang
Aero states that aerobatics
shouldn't be performed with this option though.
Excluding the price of a new engine, the MII kit is around $4000 less.
Mustang aeronautics doesn't
offer discounts on new engines. The discount offered by Vans can save
up to $7000.
The first kit to order for the MII is usually the center section (around
$2500), the first on the RV6
is the empenage (around $1500).
According to my sources, the MII is faster, handles turbulance better
and has a smoother ride
than the RV6 because of wing area and loading.
The MII stalls 5 mph faster than the RV6. According to serveral
sources, the flaps on the MII are basically a drag device and don't add
much lift.
The MII has a longer takeoff and landing distance and climbs slower
than the RV6.
Plans are available for the MII that a plane can be built from. Not so
with the RV6 according to
people experienced with both.
The MII taildragger is trickier to land than the RV6.
The carry-through spar of the RV6 seems to be a stronger structure than
the bolt together wings of the MII. The NTSB web site describes one
idiot actually ripping his wings off an MII. I am sure he spent much
effort over a long period of time to do this, and he would probably
would have killed himself in any airframe.
After studying both videos and talking to many builders in both camps,
the RV kit seems to
be of better quality. From what I can see, the RV6 uses crimping for
metal shrinkage as opposed to
the metal removal technique used on the MII. The RV6 also has
strengthening (anti-oilcanning) grooves on many of the bulkheads where
the MII doesn't.
Most importantly, and I would like soom feedback from those with
experience, the larger wing of the
RV6 should provide a much better power-off glide than the MII.
After talking with people who have flown both the RV6 is easier to fly.
One MII builder reports that he
must re-trim when he moves his feet during flight. Don't know if that
is the case on the RV6.
Vans has made many improvements over the years and there always seems to
be a new model in
development. Mustang Aero hasn't done much to their 22 year old design.
There are several businesses providing parts and services for the RV6.
Haven't seen any yet for
the MII.
More people are building RV6s.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
Subject: | Surface prep method and questions |
I've been following the priming debate with, to be honest, a great deal of
confusion. I've just received my -8 empennage kit. I want to get started,
but the whole priming issue (and the err.. passion? which it raises on the
list) is causing me some concern. Corrosion is a big issue in NZ (lots of
coastline), and I want my aeroplane to be around for a very long time. So I
want to get it right, and have a clear plan in my head as to surface prep
and priming.
I spoke to the engineers at the Alpine Fighter Collection who are
responsible for restoring and maintaining WWII fighters in flying
condition - P51D, Spitfire, Hurricane, Yak 3 etc etc.
While I'm still unclear on the primer that I will use because of the
toxicity issues, I think I now have a better idea of the pre priming
process.
The procedure suggested to me is: (for my location/requirements of airframe
life)
With all parts finished and ready for final assembly:
1. Disasemble from jig.
2. Remove any remaining plastic covering
3. Use thinner to remove any ink remaining on the part(s)
4. Immerse the part in a bath of Prepsol. This cleans the part and
improves the "take" of the Alodine.
5. Move the part to a bath of Alodine.
6. When the part is ready (a light straw colour on exposed edges - note
that the alodine will not take to the Alclad - DON'T overdo the Alodining)
remove and rinse well with water.
7. When dry, the part is ready for priming.
Note 1: prep and prime ALL parts
I specifically asked about scuffing with scotchbrite so that the alodyne
will take to the Alclad, and was told quite clearly that it defeated the
purpose of the Alclad - that the Alodyne was to provide the *exposed* alloy
(where I've drilled, filed etc) with a layer of corrosion protection similar
to that provided by the pure aluminium on the Alclad on the non worked
surface.
I'm going to find a couple of long wide and shallow trays with sealable lits
for the Prepsol and Alodine, and install a hand held sprinkler and drain in
the corner of my garage. Apparently the Prepsol and Alodine can be used
repeatedly before they need replenishing or replacing.
I appreciate Dave Carters (hi Dave!) advice and help tremendously and I have
amended this approach to include
8. Dry with paper towels to avoid mineral spots.
Note 2: Refresh the Alodyne bath as necessary
Note 3: Use a 2 cartridge filter mask unless you want to fly before your
aeroplane.
My questions refers to id'ing parts. If I label all the parts with a sharpie
pen directly onto the alclad, (not the plastic covering), and avoid removing
these markings in step 3, will they still show after the alodining? Will
that cause any later problems? Also, are there primers that the sharpie will
show through after priming?
Thanks for any constructive feedback and comments about this method. (I
appreciate that this is probably old news for everyone who is well into
their project, but please be rest assured it is VERY new to me... *grin*)
Chris
RV #80630
____
Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751
Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz
Level 2, 450 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
>Bob: I think this polarity thing gets run into the ground; consider your own
>point about the wet string...
>
>Every time we bank an airplane we affect the polarity of all radiators
>attached thereto, with virtually no noticeable effect.
>
>The inverted L which I plan to make will extend down the trailing edge of my
>homemade gear leg fairings (glass/epoxy) for perhaps 8-10 (at the same slant
>as the gear leg, of course) before turning sharply aft along the slipstream
>lines as a length of telescoping tube/whip (maybe with small corona ball).
Agreed . . . and for most of us, it's a toss-up . . . especially when
it's unlikely that new airplanes will DEPEND on VOR as the primary
naviation. The tip antennas do indeed strongly favor the outboard
direction and early experiments with these antennas suggested that
putting BOTH antennas in and being able to switch to the favored
antenna for side-looking, waypoint identification is a good thing to
do. I'll agree that the need for optimum antenna performance at VOR
is rapidly disappearing and for most folk is a mute point.
>
>Thwe wingtip antennas I have decided to abandon are not commercially
>available- they are my own design of copper foil dipoles and would have been
>masively shielded 180 degrees by the wing tip rib and associated structure.
Bob Archer proposed a 1/4-wave faired back unipole antenna with a
gamma-match feedpoint several years back. I believe these antennas
are still available in kit form. Early experience with these antennas
is what drove my initial comments . . .
>It looks so impractical now that I'm going to dismantle them before ever
>putting them in service. This will also save the weight of two RG-58 runs
the
>length of the wings.
They're so light and easy to install, why not have them in place
if only for a spare? I think people are more likely to experience
cross polarization degredation in communications modes than for
VOR modes . . . trying to hit a Flightwatch remote site from
50 miles out with a Terra transmitter can stretch your uV/M
pretty thin . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com> |
Subject: | RV-4 Tank rear baffle |
I'll double check witch ribs go where but I think I had them correct. I was
just making the layout marks on the baffle and found that the last mark
(where the last rib would go) was way off. This may be something that was
mentioned in the RVator years ago. I guess I better buy those back issues!
----------
From: Patrick Kelley[SMTP:patk(at)mail.ic.net]
Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:47 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Tank rear baffle
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>
> I just searched the archive and couldn't find anything on this. I
was
> laying out the ribs on the rear baffle per DWG 17 last night and
to my
> shock and amazement the dimensions used in the print didn't match
up to the
> dimensions of the rear baffle. The dimensions from the print add
up to
> 38.5 inches for the rear baffle, the actual rear baffle measures
39 inches.
> Does the baffle need to be trimmed or should I just alter the
print
> dimensions to match the rear baffle?
>
> I hope that was understandable.
Since no one else seems to have answered, I'll take a stab at this.
BTW, my experience comes from a -6, but I think the situation is
similar. I was laying out my rear baffle and had spare baffle left
over
until I realize that the outboard rib was for the other tank and was
facing inboard. With the proper rib and the flange facing outboard,
everything was just fine. This brain fade on my part lasted longer
than
I care to admit; thank heavens I didn't drill or cut anything. If
that
is not your problem, then I would contact Vans. I found on my -6
kit
that the plans and material were correct; I cannot speak for the -4.
Good luck.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Installing NACA inlet ? |
>I am getting ready to install the NACA inlets (SV-1) on the sides of my
>6A.
>
>The plans call for using rivets and RTV. I don't think that will hold up
>as well as proseal as George O. uses in his video/plane. That seems a
>bit messy though. Has anyone tried the 3M tape and if so how long have
>they been attached? I think that would be a good solution as long as
>they didn't end up falling off, which would be a bad thing.
>
Don,
Don't give up on proseal so easily. I used it and found that it wasn't that
messy (no where near as messy as the tank). It was easy and I doubt that
there is any chance of the ducts coming off. An added benefit of the
proseal is that it can fill any small gaps where the plastic meets the aluminum.
If I had to do it over again I would still use the proseal without hesitation.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 Tank rear baffle |
Scott,
I assume that your kit is old enough that you dont have pre-punched skins.
I did have pre-punched skins, and used them as a template to layout the
holes on the rear baffle. No trimming was required on mine, it was perfect.
Make sure that you are using the correct ribs on the ends and flanges are
facing the right way. Dont have mine in front of me but will try to remember
to check this tonite and get back to you tomorrow if no one gives you a good
answer before then.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (fuse ordered)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
The dimensions from the print add up to
>38.5 inches for the rear baffle, the actual rear baffle measures 39 inches.
> Does the baffle need to be trimmed or should I just alter the print
>dimensions to match the rear baffle?
>
>I hope that was understandable.
>
>--
>Scott RV-4 #1054
>Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
From: Department of Encouragement
Re: Flying your dream (or: "Red Lipstick")
This is information you will need to file away somewhere if you aren't in
the Flying stage yet.
Flight testing is going well. Just finished a BUNCH of climb trials (many
need to be done for averageing). Today, needed to begin loading the back up
to test how things happen as weight is added to the back seat/baggage.
There are many things you can throw back there (or over there for you -6ers)
but it has to be something that A) won't hurt much if it is getting tossed
around the cabin (yikes) and B) won't do much if it spills (ie, no dust
etc.) OK: what are the options? Concrete is compact and in small bags.
NO!!! You do NOT want to breath concrete dust if something goes amiss. How
about blocks of hard concrete. NO!!! You wouldn't want to get hit by any
large rocks flying through the cabin. Sand: yeah, that might work. Pellet
stove pellets. Just happen to have some. Available at Builders Square. 40
pounds each. If it gets loose, bunch of wood in your hair.
SO: loaded 80 pounds in the back seat, STRAPPED the things in, and off we
went. First: go up and do stalls. Not much change really, either in the
speed or feel of the stall. Slow flight: no problem either. Didn't feel
much different.
Now: I have 28+ hours in the ol' dear. I am getting to where I am familiar
with a lot of her ways, including landing. And taking off. But today: I
couldn't make a decent landing to save my soul. That dumb weight in the
back. (Alright, and the crosswind, OK?) Sorta like your date always
showing up with no lipstick and one night, shows up with bright red lipstick
on. Something new about her you didn't know before. Not bad, just
different. OK, gotta adjust. Do we still listen to Frank Zappa, or do we
go with Spice Girls now?
My theory is, you make about 3 or 4 stop-and-goes and then you go do
something else for a while. I did 6. They were getting better...until #6;
then I went and did something else.
LESSON: load the airplane up with progressive weights. DON'T wait and do it
with something that will make rude remarks about your landings. With
weight, they ARE different. Go up to gross with something like pellets
before live weight is added.
MAN, are you going to like your new airplane!!
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying (learning to land again)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mjm003 <mjm003(at)beta.latech.edu> |
Subject: | What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
I'm interested in building an RV-6A, but would like to know
how much to budget for.
I'm starting without any major tools.
Will probably put a used Lycoming and enough instumentation for night
VFR
Running the numbers myself, I get rough estimates of $28-30K but that's
without
miscellaneous items that I don't know about yet.
Has anyone kept an itemized ledger of all costs incurred in the building
process?
If so, please share the information with me.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | osmith(at)seas.ucla.edu |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
The best eime to find me in my office is usually between 10 and 11:30. Other
time I may well be in the lab.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don McCall <mccall(at)cayman.ds.boeing.com> |
Subject: | Re: Primers / Corrosion - Cessna's Current Process |
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 TPhilpin(at)aol.com wrote:
> Cessna assumes worse case enviornment for their products - salt air
> enviornment not unlike Florida or worse.
> They currently offer a 20 year guaranty against corrosion on some of their
> current GA airframes. In order to achieve this level of corrosion resistance,
> Cessna uses Alclad whenever possible, and has the following process for the
> treatment of all aluminum parts prior to assembly:
>
> 1. A deoxidizing degreasing treatment - namely an acid etch
> 2. A chromic substrate conversion treatment in vats - Alodine is a product
> name
> 3. All surfaces are sprayed with a two part catalyzed epoxy primer that meets
> Mil Spec P2337F. In order to meet this mil spec the epoxy primer must contain
> strontium or zinc chromates which protects the surface even if the primer is
> subsequently scratched during assembly. This engineer firmly believes
> nothing else has been found to adequately replace the chromates.
Great post, Tony! Thank you. Finally, something other than just
hearsay. I'm curious about one thing, however... I know of many builders
who are cleaning the surface and applying the appropriate epoxy primer,
without the Alodine; does anybody know what is accomplished by the
Alodine? I have to believe that there's a good reason why Cessna is
doing that...
Don McCall
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mark Graf <markgraf(at)pop.a001.sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
>
> In the directions for the Van's supplied windscreen antenna, it mentions
> installing a capacitor across the backs of the headset and mike jacks. I
> assume this is the grounds, but does anyone know for sure? Has anyone had
> problems with this antenna or does it perform relatively well for VFR type
> flying.
>
> Your replys appreciated.
>
> Charles Golden
> N609CG 6A
> Chevy Powered
> Installing Panel
> (Now I understand why people build aircraft with no electrical system)
>
To All,
While I understand that the windshield antenna works well, I would
suggest using a standard comm antenna mounted on the lower or upper side
of the fuse. There are some studies in the radio communications world
that suggest having your head next to radio frequency power output as
low as a cellular telephone (0.6 watts) for extended periods can cause
cancer. Our aircraft radios normally have between 4 and 6 watts output.
Obviously the amount of exposure time is less for the airplane (at least
for recreational flyers like myself). While there is not what I would
call a conclusive study, I am not taking the chance.
Additionally the radio transmission propogation is better for the old
standard stick in the air than the ribbon in the canopy. Physics are
physics and it just works better, it has to do with ground plane,
reflected power, and some rather complex formulas. Again, I have heard
that the ribbons work well.
Good Luck with your RX and TX
Mark Graf RV-6 - N71CG flying 160+ hours
markgraf(at)sprintmail.com
Association of Public Safety Communications Officers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
David Carter wrote:
>
>
> Jerry, first, about using both "metalprep" and Alodine: When I did my
> research all the Sherwin Williams, Pratt&Lambert, and DuPont folks and
> their written guides for treating aluminum said it was one or the
> other. Either will prep the surface to improve adherance of the
> primer. I use PPG Alodine, after scrubbing with PPG "degreaser solvent"
> DX 330 and red Scotchbite pad to totally scuff away the shiney surface,
> then wash in warm soapy water and rinse. I always wear neoprene rubber
> gloves (durable to withstand scrubbing with abrasive pads, avail from
> PPG).
> I dry the parts before Alodining. The Alodine chemical "gets used up"
> after about two ribs if you dip parts in the same tub of liquid, so now
> I dip fresh liquid out of a cup as I "bath" each part for 1 to 3',
> keeping it wet. The stain/color change doesn't improve much after a
> minute or so. Rinse well and dry with paper towels or whatever to avoid
> mineral spots from evaporating water - unless you use rain water, which
> I happen to have.
> I use a standard "Sears?" 2 cartridge filter mask and it provides pure,
> clean smelling
> air when I'm scrubbing with strong solvent, mixing and spraying.
> I'm building in a 1 1/2 car garage and build a small paint booth on one
> side of garage with a window. Built the booth of 3 mil construction
> plastic tacked/duct taped to a few uprights. Put a hefty squirrel cage
> blower in window to exhause fumes and draw in fresh air to keep
> concentration of fumes lower.
> I paid PPG $180 for a DeVilbiss HVLP gun and use it with a Sears 2 hp
> 20 gal tank, with system set at 80psi and regulator at handle of gun set
> at 8 to 10psi, wetness 1/4 to 3/4 turn CCW from full "off/dry". It is 6
> turns from full off to full "wet" but keeping it close to dry give you
> control and lets you build your coverage in 2 to 3 passes, where you can
> see what is happening. Gun has "round" pattern (use 1/4 turn from full
> off/dry) and "fan" or "flat" vertical line of paint (use 3/4 to 1 turn
> CCW from full dry), which I like to use as much as possible because you
> don't put on too much and get runs. I only used round today to reach
> out to places where I couldn't get gun close enough because of hose
> interference - but cut the wetness when I did use it.
>
> David Carter, RV-6 Horizontal Stab (rivet skins onto skeleton tomorrow),
> Nederland, Texas
>
David, Thanks for sharing your response with the list. I know this
will help a lot of the epoxy primer users.
Jerry Calvert
-6a empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
Subject: | 6A Finish Kit Checklist |
Getting ready to order finish kit for my 6A... Could someone who has
been there before provide a checklist of options? I want the new cowl
but which finish kit items are better purchased in the aftermarket and
can be omitted from the order to Vans? I'm building an O-320/CS slider
and have already got the steps. I'm looking for better,
easier-to-install stuff, albeit more expensive.
Thanks in advance.
Jim drilling fuselage skins in NM
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench |
Hey Rich
Dont feel too bad - I did the same exact same thing. 20-25 Inch Pounds on the
wrench is real easy to miss, I learned on the HS so when it came time to do
the bolts on the Wings I was an expert.
Keep on Building
BSivori(at)AOL.COM
N929RV ( Reserved )
Wings in the Jiggs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Beware of the kit cost quoted for the Mustang II. I have a friend who bought
one, partially because it was cheaper. He also liked the name better too.
When he got started, he found that the kit didn't include wheels or brakes, a
$400.+ item. It also didn't include a canopy or the frame, another big check
for $600+ and a scrounge for a frame from a wreck. Lots of other items like
hardware and fittings were not included, that cost lots. I seriously doubt
that the Mustang II is cheaper when you buy what is included in Van's kits.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com wrote:
> It's true that from altitude, a wet string hung over the
> side of the cockpit will function at some performance level as an antenna
> but if one is concerned for the details, wingtip antennas are an
> apples-for-oranges replacement for vertical spike antennas.
Having recently flown in an RV where we had some difficulty with COM
on the ground, would a gear-leg antenna be effective whilst taxiing?
Would it get shielded by the wing and/or fuselage?
Or, since I don't want an external antenna, would I be better to use
one or two wingtip antennas?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Twin Cities Rv Forum |
East coast? The RV forum in Oswego NY, EAA 486 is planed this September.
Don't miss it! I might even show my cracked canopy again? Any body got a use
for it?
Later Dave McManmon RV6 Cicero NY
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ray Murphy, Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
Subject: | Composite aircraft |
One other note to consider before building a composite aircraft. The USCG
flies the HH65 which is made of composite material. During the course of
it's lifetime so far the average airframe has gained about 60 pounds of oil,
fuel and water. We also use Kapton wiring in the airframe. That wiring has
caused at least 2 fires in aircraft. It too has a tendancy to retain
moisture, adding to weight and causing arcing. Just food for thought.
Ray and Nancy Murphy
murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us
RV6A empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don McCall <mccall(at)cayman.ds.boeing.com> |
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, mjm003 wrote:
> I'm interested in building an RV-6A, but would like to know
> how much to budget for.
I haven't begun to build my -6A yet, but I've spent a fair amount of effort
researching the expected cost (you'd be surprised at how all those little
odds and ends add up!). Everything is on an Excel spreadsheet (version 7 for
Windows 95), categorized according to construction phase; I'd be happy to
send it along to you if you like, then you can see for yourself what my
assumptions and expected expenses were for all the items, and make your own
guesstimates accordingly.
Mine will be full IFR, but you can easily delete the things you won't need.
Regards,
Don McCall
P.S. If you don't have Excel, I can convert it to a plain text file and
send it like that.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
Gee... doesn't look lke a very tough decision to me.
-----Original Message-----
From: armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com <armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com>
Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 2:48 PM
Subject: RV-List: Comparison
>
>In response to the writer who was comparing airframes earlier, I have
>invested much time comparing the MII with the RV6/6A. I am about to
>make my decision. Here is what has surfaced as important to me.
>
>The folding wing of the MII can save tens of thousands of dollars of
>hangar rent in just a few years.
>Over a period of ten years, in my area that would be $36,000. Mustang
>Aero states that aerobatics
>shouldn't be performed with this option though.
>
>Excluding the price of a new engine, the MII kit is around $4000 less.
>Mustang aeronautics doesn't
>offer discounts on new engines. The discount offered by Vans can save
>up to $7000.
>
>The first kit to order for the MII is usually the center section (around
>$2500), the first on the RV6
>is the empenage (around $1500).
>
>According to my sources, the MII is faster, handles turbulance better
>and has a smoother ride
>than the RV6 because of wing area and loading.
>
>The MII stalls 5 mph faster than the RV6. According to serveral
>sources, the flaps on the MII are basically a drag device and don't add
>much lift.
>
>The MII has a longer takeoff and landing distance and climbs slower
>than the RV6.
>
>Plans are available for the MII that a plane can be built from. Not so
>with the RV6 according to
>people experienced with both.
>
>The MII taildragger is trickier to land than the RV6.
>
>The carry-through spar of the RV6 seems to be a stronger structure than
>the bolt together wings of the MII. The NTSB web site describes one
>idiot actually ripping his wings off an MII. I am sure he spent much
>effort over a long period of time to do this, and he would probably
>would have killed himself in any airframe.
>
>After studying both videos and talking to many builders in both camps,
>the RV kit seems to
>be of better quality. From what I can see, the RV6 uses crimping for
>metal shrinkage as opposed to
>the metal removal technique used on the MII. The RV6 also has
>strengthening (anti-oilcanning) grooves on many of the bulkheads where
>the MII doesn't.
>
>Most importantly, and I would like soom feedback from those with
>experience, the larger wing of the
>RV6 should provide a much better power-off glide than the MII.
>
>After talking with people who have flown both the RV6 is easier to fly.
>One MII builder reports that he
>must re-trim when he moves his feet during flight. Don't know if that
>is the case on the RV6.
>
>Vans has made many improvements over the years and there always seems to
>be a new model in
>development. Mustang Aero hasn't done much to their 22 year old design.
>
>There are several businesses providing parts and services for the RV6.
>Haven't seen any yet for
>the MII.
>
>More people are building RV6s.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Jerry, first, about using both "metalprep" and Alodine: When I did my
> research all the Sherwin Williams, Pratt&Lambert, and DuPont folks and
> their written guides for treating aluminum said it was one or the
> other. Either will prep the surface to improve adherance of the
> primer. I use PPG Alodine, after scrubbing with PPG "degreaser solvent"
> DX 330 and red Scotchbite pad to totally scuff away the shiney surface,
> then wash in warm soapy water and rinse.
I wouldn't presume to contradict all these paint manufacturers, but I
don't think it's really "one or the other" UNLESS you do the scuff/wash
step, which replaces the etch, right?
The Alumaprep serves two purposes -- to acid etch the material to give
something for both the alodine to work on and the primer to adhere to,
and also cleans the metal. The scotchbrite scuff and wash with
detergent will do the same thing. Alodyne will just bead off if you
don't etch first. Some people scrub with alumaprep and a scotch-brite
pad, but I think this is overkill and may even remove more material than
is necessary.
If the Sherwin Williams stuff is a self-etching primer, you don't
strictly need to do either one, but you should at least clean first with
some sort of solvent.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
Subject: | Specific primer question |
>"E2G973 Vinyl Etch Primer" and "R7K242 Reducer"...
Does anyone have experience with, or opinions on these products?<
This is what I have been using. I'm no painting expert but it seems to go
on easy and even. It's tough, I haven't had any problems with it
scratching off as I've seen on some zinc chromate parts.
Scott A. Jordan
-8 #331
waiting for wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Specific primer question |
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I decided to go with the Sherwin Williams Wash Primer #P60G2 and
> Catalyst Reducer #R7K44,
>
> Does anyone have experience with, or opinions on these products?
I use the same product,due in part to the fact that I purchased a Kit
from another builder who had started with SW products so I just kept
right on using it.Personally I really don't worry much about this
'primer' thing as I have no experience on any primer longevity,all I do
know is that I'm 70 now and my RV will sure last 'till the end of my
flying days,what happens to it when I'm gone I couldn't care less
about.Just do what you consider best and press on regardless.
Good Luck
Derek Reed OR RV6A wings
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
> larry(at)bowen.com
> Advance, NC
> RV-8 Emp.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Cancellation of Frederick Maryland RV forum |
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Paul,
I seem to remember that the RV Builders Forum in Oswego, NY, is listed
in the Atlantic Flyer as being held in Sept this year. You might want to
look into it....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
From: | rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Charles,
I know that some have used this antenna with success, but my experience
was not good. When transmitting, too much RF energy was getting into the
intercom resulting in a loud squeel. Tried it with and without the caps.
Finally gave up and went back to the bottom mounted bent whip. I am now
using the copper tape on the canopy as a ELT antenna.
Regards, Bill N66WD
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Primers / Corrosion - Cessna's Current Process |
<< does anybody know what is accomplished by the
Alodine? I have to believe that there's a good reason why Cessna is
doing that. >>
Prevents (or reduces) filliform corrosion under the paint.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "J.C. Hassall" <jhassall(at)ipass.net> |
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR |
RV
[...]
>Mine will be full IFR, but you can easily delete the things you won't need.
>
>Regards,
>Don McCall
Don, I'd really appreciate a copy too. Mine will be IFR, so your data will
be more pertinent to me.
Thanks for the offer.
Jim
J.C. Hassall
RV-6 Builder Wannabe
mailto:jhassall(at)ipass.net
Blacksburg VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Bob & Joe,
In over a 100 Hrs of operation i my RV-6A (with the tip up) and
hundreds of hours in the rain, I've yet to get any water on my avionics.
Some of those hours were in rain with a curled up front canopy seal. The
secret is to have a velcro'ed in waterproof cover between the panel and
the front deck. Works great! Even protects your gear when you open the
canopy in the rain.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
(Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!)
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris Ruble <cruble(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
What's your bottom line?
Chris
> I haven't begun to build my -6A yet, but I've spent a fair amount of effort
> researching the expected cost (you'd be surprised at how all those little
> odds and ends add up!). Everything is on an Excel spreadsheet (version 7 for
> Windows 95), categorized according to construction phase; I'd be happy to
> send it along to you if you like, then you can see for yourself what my
> assumptions and expected expenses were for all the items, and make your own
> guesstimates accordingly.
>
> Mine will be full IFR, but you can easily delete the things you won't need.
>
> Regards,
> Don McCall
>
>
> P.S. If you don't have Excel, I can convert it to a plain text file and
> send it like that.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
>armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com wrote: In response to the writer who was comparing airframes
>earlier, I have invested much time comparing the MII with the RV6/6A.
I am about to
>make my decision. Here is what has surfaced as important to me.
>Most importantly, and I would like soom feedback from those with experience, the
larger >wing of the RV6 should provide a much better power-off glide than the
MII.
>After talking with people who have flown both the RV6 is easier to fly.
>More people are building RV6s.
David Carter gives a short reply (for once): You are focusing on some
good things. Now, have you ever heard of the "RV grin"? If not, get a
ride in an RV. It (the experience that causes the RV grin) will
probably profoundly influence your choice of airplane to build.
David Carter, RV-6 empennage, Nederland, Texas.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
>I'm interested in building an RV-6A, but would like to know how much to
budget for.
>I'm starting without any major tools. Will probably put a used Lycoming and
enough >instumentation for night VFR
>Running the numbers myself, I get rough estimates of $28-30K but that's
>without miscellaneous items that I don't know about yet.
I'm about $15,000 through the building process right now. I have a used O-320
which should fly for a total of about $9k -$10k after overhaul. I will only
have one gyro, and a single com radio when the airplane flys. The airplane
will be equipped for night. Right now, I'm estimating a total fly away cost
of $32 -$35k. This cost includes $2k of tools. This figure excludes all the
little stuff I get at home depot, replacement parts (it's the crating and
shipping which really hurts), and a few other odds and ends I buy out of
pocket.
I think it would be extremely hard to get any of the kits off of the ground
for under $30k, with the current kit prices and the strong (expensive) market
for used engines.
My $0.02...
Kyle Boatright
(cinching up the drawstrings on my nomex shorts)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
There was a gentlemen who posted a few days ago asking for info on the
IVO prop. Last night at my local EAA chapter meeting, I met a guy who is
running a ground adjustable 3 blade IVO on a Ford V6 190hp auto
conversion, in an old Bellanca something or other. It wasn't an RV so I
didn't take any notice of the airframe (he had video). Anyway, he has
about 40 hours on the prop since Sun n Fun, and he loves it. I asked him
about cracking, and he said he had heard nothing, and wasn't concerned.
Email me off list, and I can try to put you in touch with him. He was a
very nice guy, very accommodating.
Please note that I have no intentions of using an Ivo-prop in my RV, nor
will I use an auto engine. I am in no way endorsing the Ivo-prop, or
saying that it's safe. I am simply stating what the owner told me, based
on his experiences.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 HS
Cherry Hill, NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Brake-wheel fairing interference |
I trimmed and fitted all of my wheel fairings last weekend, and the cutout
access plates for both of the main fairings are going to interfere with the
brake calipers. I've considered trying to heat the fairings and attempt to
flex them inboard to try and provide enough clearance, or it may be possible
to trim the access panels and form a bubble to provide the proper clearance.
Has anyone else experienced this interference? What about just leaving the
little access panels off? I'm waiting for my Mark Fredrick gear fairings to
arrive, and after they're fitted and the gear leg-wheel fairing intersection
fairing is fabricated maybe this panel won't be needed?
One other question, I still have some Pro-seal that's about to expire, and
I'm wondering about using it to glue the gear leg stiffeners to the main gear
legs. It would provide longer working time than using the polyester-bondo
filler material, but I don't know how well it'll stick to the wood. Since the
whole thing's gonna be wrapped up with fiberglass anyway.........
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: Primers / Corrosion - Cessna's Current Process |
*** big snip ***
>1. A deoxidizing degreasing treatment - namely an acid etch
>2. A chromic substrate conversion treatment in vats - Alodine is a product
>name
>3. All surfaces are sprayed with a two part catalyzed epoxy primer that
meets
>Mil Spec P2337F. In order to meet this mil spec the epoxy primer must
contain
>strontium or zinc chromates which protects the surface even if the primer is
>subsequently scratched during assembly. This engineer firmly believes
>nothing else has been found to adequately replace the chromates.
*** big snip ***
>Respetfully submitted,
>Tony Philpin, CT builder
>RV - 8 empennage
Tony ... I fully agree ...:^) ... interesting that Cessna changed from no
primer to epoxy primer now that the price of their planes has gone up.
However, one minor point. The Spec is MIL-P-23377F (an extra 7), and
if you want to buy some certified paint, the easiest consumer outlet is
DETCO in Newport Beach, CA. (1-800-845-0023) ... they distribute Sterling
paint products, and Sterling U-1201 epoxy primer meets this Mil-Spec. If
you order from them, don't forget to tell them you are an EAA member and
get a 40% discount.
BTW ... this primer at 0.001 inch thick (the military aviation
requirement for alum.) weighs 0.0133 lbs. per sq. ft.
... Gil (epoxy prime it) Alexander
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Subject: | Re: Primers / Corrosion - Cessna's Current Process |
> On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 TPhilpin(at)aol.com wrote: Cessna assumes worse case enviornment
for >their products In order to achieve this level of corrosion
resistance,
>Cessna uses Alclad whenever possible, and has the following process for the
>treatment of all aluminum parts prior to assembly:
> 1. A deoxidizing degreasing treatment - namely an acid etch
> 2. A chromic substrate conversion treatment in vats - Alodine is a product name
> 3. All surfaces are sprayed with a two part catalyzed epoxy primer
> Great post, Tony! Thank you. Finally, something other than just
> hearsay. I'm curious about one thing, however... I know of many builders
> who are cleaning the surface and applying the appropriate epoxy primer,
> without the Alodine; does anybody know what is accomplished by the
> Alodine? I have to believe that there's a good reason why Cessna is
> doing that... Don McCall
My wake up call this morning was from Pratt & Lambert's Lab returning my
call to them yesterday. One of the things I asked was, "Do I really
need to apply alodine after using degreasing solvent & scrubbing with
scotchbrite pad, followed by soap and warm water wash and rinse?"
His answer was, "Yes, we feel strongly that you need the alodine in
order to assure adequate adhesion of the epoxy primer. If you don't
alodine, you have an unacceptable risk of primer not adhering."
So, I did it. There was another post today by Chris Hinch of New
Zealand (High, Chris) that answered a question that neither PPG nor
Pratt & Lambert could answer: Why are my parts not changing color very
much when I alodine, and why do they turn blue instead of yellow? The
answer is apparently that alodine doesn't take to alclad very well (or
takes differently). I thought it was interesting that the alodine
purpose is to provide protection "equal to alclad" on the edges and
drilled holes of alclad sheet that have no alclad protection. That is
reason #2 for using Alodine, as well as reason #1, adhesion of the epoxy
chromate primer.
Putting these two reasons together, you might extrapolate that if you
didn't use alodine or other chemical conversion coating, then your edges
(no alclad protection) would be the places that paint separation should
be expected to occur first.
Pratt and Lambert confirmed that my light green epoxy primer has
strontium, not zinc, as its "chromate". That was pointed out several
days ago when someone corrected one of my posts. Thanks for pointing
that out to me.
I like the primer thread. I'm still learning from it. OK, I've seen
the passion. I suspect the passion can be distilled to a matter of
which basic source of info a person trusts most, "prior good experience
with, for example variprime" or "what the factory man and or written
guidance says". Maybe this thread could be kept "cooler" by
acknowledging the validity of both viewpoints and respecting people
regardless of which they weight above the other. Lets keep the info
flowing to the new guys - there's lots of them coming on right on our
heels.
David Carter, RV-6 empennage, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Subject: | Marking parts vs scrubbing and priming |
Chris Hinch of New Zealand gave an excellent post on aluminum prep and
priming and then asked some questions, one of which had to do with
marking.
First, if you don't prime, or apply a semi-transparent coating, then
you can simply mark parts with felt tip pens.
For my ribs and steel hinges on aft spar of horiz stab, I left parts on
the left "unmarked" and used a single punch mark on, e.g., the steel
hinges on right and ribs on right. Where there were two identical
hinges in a pair, I put the mark on each "toward the center". This was
working fine until I applied the primer - I had never used my gun
before, had never painted before, and put on way too thick a coat -
which filled in my punch marks! I managed to find the marks/depressions
OK and re-cleco'd things to assure the holes matched - no problem.
I also bought a bunch of small plastic tie wraps and cut out little
plastic tags (from the clear plastic bags my Avery tools came in) and
tied labels to the parts that had holes drilled in them. I abandoned
this, but think it might have application on some parts. For example,
when I painted my two horiz stab skins yesterday, the only
distinguishing mark was the tiny ding in the tip end edge where the
welding debacle was done. If that mark hadn't been there, I'd have had
to trial fit the skins to know where they went. A ring of plastic in
the right one, or a punch mark, or even writing with the Sharpie pen
would have been helpful. Now that I'm getting a 0.7 mil thickness,
using about 3 passes with the gun, you can see through the primer film,
and the Sharpie would show through OK for ID.
David Carter, RV-6 empennage, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TPhilpin(at)aol.com |
Subject: | FYI: Avionics Note: Reported on AVWeb.com |
The following was posted in the AVWeb.com newsletter:
Proposed AD?????
...The FAA, TARGETS WIDELY USED KT-76A TRANSPONDERS WITH AD
Finally, the FAA targeted the 20,000 KT-76A transponders in service
throughout the GA fleet with an AD. The agency is concerned that the
units are transmitting misleading altitude information and the fix is
estimated to cost $120 each. Compliance is required in just 6 months.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com |
Subject: | Easy Access Panel |
Hot Damn, Mitch!
Where's that Lancair guy? See how easy it is to build an RV! You won't get
that on the Lancair list. I thank you, and my lumbar thanks you.
Eric Henson
>>I am working with him directly to get this information (and more) about
the removeable instrument panel on my web site for everybody. <<
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "J.C. Hassall" <jhassall(at)ipass.net> |
Subject: | Re: Which Sets and Dies |
[...]
>I compiled my QB tool research into an Excel spreadsheet I would be glad to
>provide to anyone on request. Mind you it, and its prices, are dated 8/96
>so you will need to do some updating on your own.
Rob, I'd sure appreciate a copy. It'll be a huge help in estimating my
startup expenses - and a running start on plans to hide the startup
expenses :-p
Thanx
Jim
J.C. Hassall
RV-6 Builder Wannabe
mailto:jhassall(at)ipass.net
Blacksburg VA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
<< radio frequency power... can cause
cancer. >>
Warning: if we are not disciplined in our handling of this topic, a thread
could be started which could one day occupy more archive space than the
dreaded p----r thread>>>>
This rumor hit Wall Street 5 or 6 years ago, and when I saw how Motorola stock
dipped on the news, I _KNEW__ I should leverage myself and buy all of it I
could, convinced the rumors would be shown to be bogus (they were) and that
the stock would recover strongly (it did.) Of course, I sat on my hunch and
did nothing...
True, if you want to hurt yourself, look into a UHF cavity amplifier with the
shielding removed. This is how microwave ovens work. They don't operate by
making your food cancerous, but by warming it. Same goes for the lens of your
eye when exposed to *strong* UHF and micro-wiggle energy. Heat = tissue
damage. Just enough heat = diathermy treatment like you get in Physical
Therapy.
Likewise, 60Hz EMF from an electric blanket or a high tension line will not
give you leukemia. Remember that if you accept a 95% confidence interval in
your "scientific study," then by definition one study in 20 will find a cause
and effect relationship that isn't really there! So we have the Swedes
getting cancer from their electric power grid when no one else is, and it
would be politicaly incorrect to warn only the Swedes of this danger but not,
say, the Canadians, and if them, why not all those hapless Americans who
could be at-risk from this clearly Communist plot, so the word goes out to
"warn" everyone that the RF pollution will get us all if we don't do
something. Kinda like the doctor who knows you have a viral infection but -
why take chances- here's an antibiotic (that can't possibly help you but it
makes us all feel safer.)
IMHO, building and flying an experimental airplane is serious business and
deserves our focused attention. RF cancer scares are, at present,
unsubstantiated hysteria, and should not distract or detract from the serious
fun we should be having in our workshops.
Sorry for the soapbox, but it's the stress of my day job, having to read all
those scientific journals and convince worried parents that kids get over
colds without antibiotics. I feel better already.
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
<< we had some difficulty with COM
on the ground, >>
With whom were you trying to communicate? If the tower couldn't read you from
the runway, I'd say someone has a malfunction somewhere. Near-field
communication like that should work about as well with or without an antenna!
Was this a shared/busy unicom frequency, perhaps? Maybe you were hearing him
too well and he was overloading the rcvr front-end. I had that problem with a
KX-99 once. Worked great in the clear, but close in to the airport it would
break up and get too distorted to copy the tower. I had to ask for light gun
signals on my maiden test flight of my first homebuilt because of this. A
lower bus voltage fixed it. Just wondering....
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Pop Dimplers |
In regard to the thread on using Pop Dimplers, I have found a trick that
results in dimples formed very closely to regular dimple dies. I use a finish
nail that is a close fit in the pop dimple dies. This results in better
alignment and a better dimple.
For hard to reach places, like the elevator tip ribs, cut the nail off to a
length that is a little longer than both halves of the dies together. A pair
of long nose pliers will help maneuver the nail and die into place. Then use
two pair of vice grips, one on each side of the nail, to squeeze the dies
together.
Hope this helps.
G. Stanley
Desert Center, CA
RV-6A Fuel Tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
Subject: | Re: Brake-wheel fairing interference |
>
> I trimmed and fitted all of my wheel fairings last weekend, and the cutout
>access plates for both of the main fairings are going to interfere with the
>brake calipers. I've considered trying to heat the fairings and attempt to
>flex them inboard to try and provide enough clearance, or it may be possible
>to trim the access panels and form a bubble to provide the proper clearance.
>Has anyone else experienced this interference? What about just leaving the
>little access panels off? I'm waiting for my Mark Fredrick gear fairings to
>arrive, and after they're fitted and the gear leg-wheel fairing intersection
>fairing is fabricated maybe this panel won't be needed?
Mark,
I don't think you can really fit the access panels until you have the gear
leg fairings. I then cut out enough glass that the wheel fairings would sit
in place without fouling anything. I then moulded plasticine (child's
greasy modelling clay) to make a smooth intersection fairing. I wrappled
three layers of electicians tape on the gear leg fairing at the top of the
modelling gunk. Fireglass over the whole shebang. Take cut off wheel and
(very carefully) cut out access plate. Remove access plate. remove
plasticine (can easily be done in two nights with a toothpick). Remove
wheel fairing (copious swearing helps). Take whole unlikely mess and sand
and bog until beautiful. Fit nutplates.
Don't forget to do all the above with the wheels hanging weightless in the
flying position.
Hope for the best on test flight day.
If there is an easier way don't tell me.
Leo Davies 6A (the wheel fairings look good).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
I don't have a complete itemized breakdown of the cost for my RV-6A, but I
have a total cost of $32,000., which included a reman 160 Lycoming, a
Sensenich metal prop, state of the art radios, all new instruments for IFR
flight, and a very nice interior. Unlike my first kit plane, almost
everything that you need is included in the kit except engine, instruments,
radios, interior, and paint. My first plane kept bleeding my wallet every
time I turned around, because something that I thought was included, wasn't.
I have a friend that is building a Mustang II and is going through the same
thing that I did on my first plane. Van's kit did not do that. I am very
satisfied with the kit and even more satisfied with the finished plane.
Jim Cone
RV-6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
> The inverted L which I plan to make will extend down the trailing edge of my
> homemade gear leg fairings (glass/epoxy) for perhaps 8-10 (at the same slant
> as the gear leg, of course) before turning sharply aft along the slipstream
> lines as a length of telescoping tube/whip (maybe with small corona ball).
> Any way you puzzle this geometry, it's a sloping overall polarity. Most of
> the current will be in the roughly vertical portion, while most of the voltage
> will be on the horizontal segment. After it interacts with the metal of the
> gear leg, it won't make a hill of beans difference what polarity I started out
> trying to achieve. My guess is it will be "Q-5 copy" from any reasonable
> distance. I plan to build it, tune it, and forget about it! One for 108-138
>
OK! You Geniuses... How about telling an old DUM-DUM how I can Mount my
antennas for the two coms I have in the legs in the language I can
Understand and with no electronic testing equipment. BOY!!! would I
appreciate that info since I'm about ready to install these two comm
antenna under the belly.
For ever grateful,
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | rv-4 tail kit for sale |
From: | drigby(at)juno.com (David L. Rigby) |
Listers,
RV -4 tail kit for sale. It is an older serial number (hence no prepunch)
Some of the internal structure has been completed but no holes in the
skins yet.
Asking 500.00 US + shipping
If interested or questions please respond off the list
Thanks
Dave
drigby(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
Subject: | Yeller Pages Update |
The latest, and so far greatest update to Gary VanRemortel's RV Builders'
Yeller Pages is available at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm.
Enjoy, and be sure to tell Gary thanks.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RMD Lighting |
Apparently Bob DeBorde has changed his phone number but I tracked him down
over the Internet. Try calling him at 503-648-0331. Let me know if he is
still a viable supplier. I'll update the Yeller Pages....yet again.
Well, there's no rest for the weary and my 6A awaits with just one flying hour
on the Hobbs. Maybe if El Nino would give the SF Bay area a rest, I could go
bore some holes.
thx
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Installing NACA inlet ? |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
writes:
>
>>The plans call for using rivets and RTV. I don't think that will hold
>up
>>as well as proseal as George O. uses in his video/plane. That seems a
>>bit messy though.
The Yellow RV-8 prototype and the soon to be completed RV-8A both have
the NACA vent housings installed with just Proseal.
Be sure to use duct tape or something similar to hold them in place for a
couple of days while it cures.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs.
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "J VanGrunsven" <rvforpla(at)pacifier.com> |
Subject: | Re: RMD Aircraft Lighting |
Phil,
Try (503) 628-6056 for RMD, he moved from HIO to Twin Oaks airport (home of
EAA chapter 105)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
Subject: | Ivo prop users etc |
I have been asked by an RV builder who is doing a subaru conversion for his
-6 to enquire about the ivo prop problems that have been posted lately.
1. He asks if any of the prop failures have involved the ivo-prop magnum series
2. If the magnum series have failed, what engine had they been attached to
and was a direct drive involved or a reduction drive (what type?).
Please reply off list if you would like to lcoats(at)wave.co.nz
Thanks
Louise
L. Coats ZK-RVL RV6 flying :-) 229hr
ould
>break up and get too distorted to copy the tower. I had to ask for light gun
>signals on my maiden test flight of my first homebuilt because of this. A
>lower bus voltage fixed it. Just wondering....
>Bill
>
I believe this was my aircraft that is being discussed here! I have an
aerial on the bottom of the fuselage between the gear legs but favouring the
right hand side, a TKM radio from Vans, flightcom intercom and blackhawk
headsets. I had trouble with the radio right from the start and this was
sent away for repair locally as it would not work at all in the beginning of
the test programme. Since then I seem to have periodic reports that my
transmissions are faint 2-4 on the scale or warbling. On this particular
day, discussed above, there was a temporary tower set up in a mobile van
about 20-30m away and I tried moving around to see if I could 'raise' this
tower and in the end took off and called them up from downwind and was
informed that they had heard no transmissions on the ground. I am still
not sure if an aerial on the bottom of the fuselage is a good idea but I am
interested in hearing the 'experts' thoughts on this matter.
Another point, I have an ACK ELT and the aerial for this is in front of the
F608 bulkhead (dorsally not ventrally). This aerial has rusted quite
happily in our salty environment over the last three years and after seeing
a few RV's in the US with ELT aerials in the baggage comparment I was
wondering if these are known for a fact to function in this site when a
mishap occurs and does the manufacturer encourage siting the aerial in this
site (baggage comparment)?
Louise
L. Coats ZK-RVL RV6 flying :-) 229hr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RMD Aircraft Lighting |
Phil ,
try 503-648-0331.....George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4flyer(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: rv-4 tail kit for sale |
Dave , I am interested in your Tail I am ready to order my tail and wing kit
for the RV- 4 when I ran across your posting please E-mail me your location
and how we can make this sale happen. Thanks , Eli Lewis Venice, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
<< The tip-up, while looking funny on the ground, has some advantages:
1. Unobstructed forward view -- no roll bar in the way.
2. A tighter seal to keep water away from your avionics. >>
I very much doubt that the tip-up canopy provides better protection from the
elements. The early tip-ups leaked water all over the avionics. While the
new tip-up design is better, it does still leak some water. How do you
suppose that the fixed top skin/wind screen could leak water behind the
instrument panel?
I think that most of the RV-4 and tip-up six drivers would agree that the
slide-back is superior in that ground operations are cooler in the summer and
there is less chance of canopy damage due to wind or prop wash.
I certainly dont want to start a "mine is better than yours" debate but if I
did my flame shield is in position.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alan Carroll <carroll(at)geology.wisc.edu> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
> The tip antennas do indeed strongly favor the outboard
> direction
Why is this? My understanding of radio waves (very elementary) suggests
that it shouldn't matter what side of the airplane the antenna is on.
What about mounting a dipole VOR antenna across the bottom of the cowling
(left to right, beneath the air intake, with a connector for removing the
cowling)? Has this been tried, or would proximity to the engine and
exhaust system cause problems?
Alan Carroll
RV-8 #80177 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Samuel Steele <steele(at)loyno.edu> |
I have a Magellan Hand-Held GPS that is in excellent shape. For sale:
$300. Please FAX me at: 504 865-2453 if interested.
Sam Steele
Sam Steele e-mail: steele(at)beta.loyno.edu
Physics Dept. Machinist
Loyola Univ. N.O.
(504) 865-3646
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
Subject: | Re: Brake-wheel fairing interference |
>I don't think you can really fit the access panels until you have the gear
>leg fairings. I then cut out enough glass that the wheel fairings would sit
>in place without fouling anything.......
>
>Don't forget to do all the above with the wheels hanging weightless in the
>flying position.
I did the clay thing too, and they look great. Still taking a lot of
sand-and-fill, which is not done YET.
Here's the rub: in rigging the ailerons (pinching the light wing's aileron,
etc.) it has been suggested you fly the airplane without the gear and wheel
fairings first and adjust the ailerons. (The gear leg fairings affect the
"rigging" of the airplane as they are an airfoil shape.) Then put the
fairings back on and adjust further. Now: if you are going to fly with the
fairings on, why not leave them on to adjust the ailerons? You get them as
close as you can using the methods described in the manual and, once the
glass has been set at the fuselage/gear and fairing/gear intersections, they
are going to be hard to adjust anyway. And what "adjustment" do you make;
ie, how do you rig the gear fairings?
My opinion: put 'em on as straight as possible, glass 'em in and go flying.
Make adjustments to the ailerons with the gear fairings in place.
Just my own opinion.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Flying (approaching gross weight flights)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort) |
armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com wrote:
>
>
> In response to the writer who was comparing airframes earlier, I have
> invested much time comparing the MII with the RV6/6A. I am about to
> make my decision. Here is what has surfaced as important to me.
With regard to the comparison of Mustang II and RV-6, a couple of things
come to mind.
When comparing kit costs, be sure all included items are valued. The
additional refinement of the RV kits is hard to put a value on but ought
not be neglected. With regard to the folding wing, personal preferences
will vary. I kept a glider in a trailer at home for several years and
the freedom from hangar rent was welcome. However the glider was
specifically designed for the purpose. I would not look forward to this
process for a powered aircraft. The aerobatic restriction on the
folding wing might indicate something of the structural characteristics.
The stalling speed, takeoff and landing distance kind of go together.
What is not noted is how the aircraft behaves close to the stall. The
RV flies very well at low speeds and is comfortable in this flight
region. The II is less so. I don't see many full stall landings with
Mustang II's. The climb rate should be related to the power loading and
the total airframe drag which in turn is influenced by wing loading and
span loading. Other things equal, the Mustang should climb OK. As to
the ride characteristics, the general statement that the II handles
turbulence better might be true, in a sense, but the RV is not
uncomfortable to me with comparatively soft responses. A Lancair 360 I
flew,even with a higher wing loading, was less pleasing because of the
sharpness of the ride. It was quite rough. My experience with the
Mustang is limited to three flights is a Buick powered bird and even
though it is heavier it is not substantially different than my RV-4.
With regard to the ride, that is.
As to speed, a superbly built Mustang II might be faster than an RV-6.
With average construction it is doubtful. The above mentioned Buick
powered II is definitely slower than my 160HP -4. I can literally fly
circles around him. Furthermore, his speed loss when maneuvering is so
great that as a practical matter he doesn't do much of it. The
equivalent Lyc powered II built by the same people at the same time was
described as better but unfortunately it moved to another part of the
country before I could fly with it.
Both aircraft are not difficult to fly but the II probably demands a bit
more from the pilot. The best thing would be to fly both aircraft. If
you can, get a Mustang II pilot to slow his aircraft down and explore
that regime. He will probably be nervous.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Moore" <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
Subject: | Re: Magellin GPS |
> From: Samuel Steele
> I have a Magellan Hand-Held GPS that is in excellent shape. For sale:
> $300. Please FAX me at: 504 865-2453 if interested.
I just bought a new Magellan Pioneer GPS at K-Mart for $99. :-)
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
I kept track. $55K. ($2K for tools and shop). Started in 1992 and
finished in 1998. Adjust accordingly. I believe the potential savings
could add up to about $23K so I think you are pretty close. Here are
areas of potential savings:
I have new engine and C/S prop. (Could save $14K)
All new instruments and radios.
$3K paint job.
Add on $1K ignition system.
Three strobe system.
Elec. trim and flaps.
slider.
D J's seats and upholstery.
BTW I pay 135.50 per month for half hangar and $100 for insurance. Gas
$229 per month for 17 hours. Oil is 1.32 per hour and overhaul is $5.
This yields a current operating cost of $43.29 per hour. I am flying
as often as I can to try to get this cost down by running it up ;-)).
I make no claim as to my ability to predict others expenses. But these
are what mine are.
As for my 'options'. None of them are frills and would highly recommend
them all to anyone who can find a way to afford them. On the other hand
I have included operating expense to show you that no sane person can
afford to own one of these things anyway!
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Subject: | F689 elevator pushtube |
Listers,
I'm working on the F689 forward elevator pushtube. I've carved out
the needed amount on the weldment to get the stick to come within
the 1/8" of the F604. I've gouged out some of the bulkhead for tube
clearance, though a tad more is needed. However, when I set the
sticks where I think neutral should be, the bellcrank at the rear end
of the pushtube is tilted forward about twenty degrees at the top. I've
made the pushtube per plan and have screwed the rod ends all the
way into the bearings. Although I seem to be getting plenty of travel,
I don't really like the bellcrank being off by that much. Have any of
you run into a similar problem? I seems the geometry would dictate
some deficiency in the elevator throws, one way or other. Since my
distances on bulkheads, and such, are pretty much right on, it
appears that the dimension for the pushtube at 47.5" is a tad too
long?
Jim Sears
RV-6A #22220 (struggling with controls)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Brown <smbrown(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | RV-6 Empennage and Wing for sale |
Before I could afford to build I wondered how one could let a project go
without attention for a long period of time... well now unfortunately I do :-(
The realities of work and family have caught up with me.
I have a -6 empennage kit with a complete skeleton, started skinning but not
attached and no work done on the vstab; prior to prepunch. This might be good
for someone that wants to practice before starting theirs.
Also have a complete, untouched wing, prepunched, w/Phlogiston spars; the spars
were shipped to me mistakenly but I liked what I saw so kept them... I did pay
for them :-)
I'm feeling ambivalent about this, I hope one day to build it but if someone
makes a reasonable offer in the $3k range, and would give it a good home, I'd
consider it.
--
Steve Brown
Cisco Systems
Phoenix. AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | paulr(at)colorado.cirrus.com (Paul Romano) |
Subject: | RV-4 Wing/Fuselage Kit |
I am looking for an RV-4 Wing and/or Fuselage
kit that has not been started. My preference is for a
kit from Van's with the pre-drilled spars (but not assembled).
Good opportunity to make some money to put towards the -8!
Contact me off line, if interested.
Paul
paulr(at)colorado.cirrus.com
Paulro(at)worldnet.att.net
303 939-8675
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Brake-wheel fairing interference |
<< I've considered trying to heat the fairings and attempt to
flex them inboard to try and provide enough clearance, or it may be possible
to trim the access panels and form a bubble to provide the proper clearance.
>>
Mark,
Do you have the correct length on the spacers for your wheel pant
mounting plate? You might be able to bring it out a little more with longer
spacers, or by adding a washer or two under the existing spacers. You might
also double check and make sure your brake caliper is mounted properly.You
should be very close to having enough room. If this doesent work you could
build in a slight convex shape cover at the same time you are doing your gear
leg intersection fairing layups.
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
<< BTW I pay 135.50 per month for half hangar and $100 for insurance. Gas
$229 per month for 17 hours. Oil is 1.32 per hour and overhaul is $5.
This yields a current operating cost of $43.29 per hour. I am flying
as often as I can to try to get this cost down by running it up ;-)). >>
Geez Dennis,
I think it would be best if you kept a lid on this kind
of information. If my wife found this out my flying career would be over. ; ).
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
Another consideration is resale value. I think it would be really tough to
beat an RV. After five years of flying my RV-6 I sold the airplane in a
couple of days at OSH for a 64% profit. I would challenge any other kit plane
to show that kind of performance.
Rick McBride
RV-6 N523JC sold
RV-8 #80027
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
> Most importantly, and I would like soom feedback from those with
> experience, the larger wing of the
> RV6 should provide a much better power-off glide than the MII.
I, too, would like to hear some words of wisdom on this from those with
more aerodynamics knowledge than me. All other things being equal
(which they aren't in this case, mind you) which would have the better
L/D at best glide, the small-wing airplane or the large-wing airplane?
The large-wing airplane will have more profile drag at all speeds,
but it might well have less induced drag at best glide speed, due to
a lower AOA, right? Which would have the dominant effect?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
I had $32k invested in my RV-6 without tools. I built the airplane from 1988
to 1992. The engine cost $3.7k with a wood prop. The panel included full
gyros, nav/com, transponder, loran (more than the cost of a superior GPS), and
full night capability. I think you'd have to be a real scrounger to bring it
in that low now.
Rick McBride
RV-6 N523JC
RV-8 80027 (I've invested nearly $28k and am still working on the wings, ugh!)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Magellin GPS |
>
>> From: Samuel Steele
>> I have a Magellan Hand-Held GPS that is in excellent shape. For sale:
>> $300. Please FAX me at: 504 865-2453 if interested.
>
>I just bought a new Magellan Pioneer GPS at K-Mart for $99. :-)
>
>Bob Moore
Bob,
I've seen those here but I'm still able to get the GPS2000
for $99 in lots of 6 (I give them away at my weekend seminars).
I suspect the 2000 will go away and was wondering if the
Pioneer works with a toot in an airplane. What say ye?
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Haan <bobh(at)cdac.com> |
Subject: | Re: F689 elevator push tube |
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220 (struggling with controls)
>when I set the sticks where I think neutral should be, the bellcrank at
the >rear end of the pushtube is tilted forward about twenty degrees at the
>top.Have any of you run into a similar problem?
Jim,
My fwd elevator push pull tube is the plans length of 47.5 and the elevator
bellcrank is vertical when the elevators are neutral.
I had to do the same things you did; grind the control assembly weldment to
clear the fwd rod end bearing of the fwd elevator push pull tube and
increase size of rectangular cutout in the 604 bulkhead by filling about
1/8 out of the top of this rectangle to give the fwd push pull tube more
clearance.
If you have not hooked up the rear push pull tube that goes from the
bellcrank to the elevator control horns, I would not modify the fwd tube
until this is done. The best way to find neutral is the elevators in line
with the horizontal stab not the position of the stick. You may find every
thing is can be adjusted ok.
Bill Benedict, Van's GM, came to inspect my plane and he checked to make
sure the bellcrank was vertical when the elevators were neutral. He said
it was important. It is not clear to me why if the elevators travel the
required angle up and down. But, I made sure it was vertical when the
elevators are neutral.
The rod end bearing should be threaded into the push pull tubes at least
half way for safety. This way if a push pull tube rotates, one of the rod
end bearings will bottom out before the other one unscrews.
Once the neutral position for the elevators has been achieved with the bell
crank vertical, notice, a final adjustment can be made to all 4 elevator
control push pull tube rod end bearings. If you screw in (safer) the rod
end bearings for say the rear push pull tube (shorten it) and hold the
elevators in neutral, the bell crank top goes aft and the bell crank bottom
goes forward. As a result, the fwd push pull tube rod end bearings also
need to be screwed in (shortened.) This creates a neat opportunity to get
all 4 rod end bearing screwed in more than half way.
Bob Haan
bobh(at)cdac.com
Portland, OR
RV6A 24461 Fuse out of jig, working on forward top deck
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Brake-wheel fairing interference |
<< Mark,
Do you have the correct length on the spacers for your wheel pant
mounting plate? You might be able to bring it out a little more with longer
spacers, or by adding a washer or two under the existing spacers. >>
I had to use slightly longer spacers than what the plans called out for.
When I used the 13/32" dimension called out on sheet 45, the wheel fairings
pushed the
U-414 wheel fairing mount plate up against the brake disc. I wound up using
ones that are 1/2" in length. But now that you mention it, another 1/8" might
just be enough to take care of the problem. Duh, why didn't I think of this on
my own?
Thanks,
Mark LaBoyteaux
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<< The large-wing airplane will have more profile drag at all speeds,
but it might well have less induced drag at best glide speed, due to
a lower AOA, right? Which would have the dominant effect? >>
If I remember aero 101 from 1995, the best L/D on a drag vs. velocity curve is
just to the right of the point where the parasitic(profile) drag and the
induced drag are equal. Since the larger winged airplane will have more
parasitic drag if the fuselage,etc. are about equal ,than the profile drag
will also be larger and the L/D will not be as good on the RV. When I got a
ride in an F-16 at Edwards( eat your heart out), we did a simulated engine
out( engine to idle and speed brakes deployed) from Lake Isabelle at 28000
feet and when we arrived at Edwards we still were 5000 AGL. I don't know the
air mile distance, but having driven it in a car, it must be over 60 miles.
When an UL student says oh you must be able to glide a long way, I always use
this as an illustration to show that the distance you go is poor in lightly
loaded wings, but I would not want to attempt a landing in an F-16 in places
where I could put my ULwith no sweat. Same thing here, Good news for the
heavier wing loading Mustang II provided there is a nice long , hard landing
site when you get there.
Sorry for the long winded post.
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Subject: | That priming thing.... |
Derek Reed wrote:
> I use the same product,due in part to the fact that I purchased a Kit
> from another builder who had started with SW products so I just kept
> right on using it.Personally I really don't worry much about this
> 'primer' thing as I have no experience on any primer longevity,all I do
> know is that I'm 70 now and my RV will sure last 'till the end of my
> flying days,what happens to it when I'm gone I couldn't care less
> about.Just do what you consider best and press on regardless.
> Good Luck
Derek,
Your post is probably going to get me in hot water (or maybe, hot
alodine...). For several weeks I have been biting my tongue (or is that
"sitting on my hands"?) while the endless primer debate unfolded.
It appears that some builders are obsessed with fabricating the "Eternal
Aeroplane"! I really believe that some of the builders would have
newbies believe that their shiny new RVs are going to corrode, crumble,
and the resulting powder come wafting from the sky before the forty-hour
flyoff is completed if the "Proper" primer is not religiously applied.
Just how long do our RVs REALLY have to last? I am building a
thirty-year aircraft. Thirty years from now, my flying days will almost
certainly have been concluded due to a health problem of some sort.
Besides, I don't know if it will even be legal to fly these contraptions
in thirty years! And besides that, think you will be able to find a
Lycoming in thirty years???
Most homebuilt aircraft do not live as long a life as factory built
birds due to construction inconsistency, lack of proper maintenance, and
just sheer neglect from a no-longer interested owner. True, the Vans
series of airplanes have a better than average chance of outliving most
homebuilts due to their fine engineering and conventional construction.
But seriously, how long does your RV NEED to last??
If you are intent on constructing a monument to the art of homebuilt
aircraft construction, then by all means, prime that sucker till the
cows come home! No doubt, several decades from now, our children will be
leading their grandkids up to the museum exhibit of your plane and all
present will be awed by the wonderfully crafted but humorously primitive
state of aircraft back when the RV was in its heyday. Chuckles will
erupt as the oldsters recall airplanes with props, and the hilarious
panel with its collection of watch-like movements and primitive
electronics will have heads wagging as they wonder why anybody with time
and money to spend would have expended so much care in the preservation
of such antiquated technology.
Far out? Think about it. Does your RV REALLY need to last sixty years?
If so, then prime that sucker till the swallows come home.
I was looking through the repair manual of our 1940 J-3 the other day.
In the section on wing overhaul, it stated that all non-alclad parts
should be primed. The inference was that alclad parts were fine in their
natural state.
I must admit that the "prime that sucker or watch it fall from the sky"
syndrome is a hard one to repel. Against my better judgment I primed the
ribs of my RV6 the other day, but I must admit, I felt really silly
shooting perfectly good primer on the alclad parts. However, I realize
that not all (maybe very few?) builders share my thoughts, so I have no
intention of persuading anybody who is inclined to prime everything in
sight from doing just that.
Whew....I feel better now. My apologies for taking up bandwidth to vent.
However, I really do feel that a lot of folks are getting torqued out of
shape over stuff that should be resolved quickly and simply, and are
generating much too much stomach acid about building a 100 year airplane
instead of just getting out in the shape AND BUILDING THE THANG!
After all........isn't the whole point of this exercise........to fly?
Sam Buchanan (assembling both wing skeletons)
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Moore" <bobmoore(at)wwd.net> |
Subject: | Re: Magellin GPS |
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> I've seen those here but I'm still able to get the GPS2000
> for $99 in lots of 6 (I give them away at my weekend seminars).
> I suspect the 2000 will go away and was wondering if the
> Pioneer works with a toot in an airplane. What say ye?
Haven't tried it airborne yet. It is internally identical to the 2000
(two channel, scanning) minus some waypoint storage capacity.
In the face of the Garmin and Lowrance 12 channel, parallel
receivers, Magellen is milking this old receiver for the last drop.
Bob Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
The other day, my wife asked me if their were any female builders of RV's. I
told her I wasn't sure, but thought there "must" be a few. Well, are there?
If anyone knows of any women who are the primary builder of an RV, let me know
please. It might help to "bring her on-board" if she can communicate with a
female builder or at least a dedicated helper. You see, she has nothing
against the project I am about to start, but if I can "light the fire", then
she will be a much more willing participant.(Bucking Rivets)
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Engine Baffle Ignition Wire Seals |
AC$ wants $7.25 each for the 5mm two-wire seal to bring ignition
wires thru the engine baffles. I'm using a Lightspeed electronic
ignition, which uses 7.5mm wires. I suppose I could buy the AC$
seals and drill them out a bit. Any listers have other clever ideas
for this problem that have worked in service?
Tim Lewis
Fitting cowling.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Don McCall <mccall(at)cayman.ds.boeing.com> |
Subject: | Michael Markert? |
Mike, I've tried to send you the RV-6A cost projection spreadsheet (twice),
but your email address keeps getting bounced. Could you please send me the
correct address?
Thanks.
Don McCall
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net |
After reviewing Aircraft Spruce under camlocs, the choice for the cowl
would seem to be the 2700 series camlocs. I would appreciate any direction
as to what others are using, what size (dash #), spacing between camlocs,
etc. Also, it would seem that along the sides would be an appropiate
location. Do others do this and the same questions apply?
How about installation? I see all type of expensive tools listed which
would eliminate this plan for me. Although I have open and closed these a
thousand times, I have never really looked at how they are installed. Do I
need special tools or can this all be installed with builders tools that
have grown considerably.
Last question. What are the best places to purchase?
Answers are always appreciated.
Charles Golden
N609CG 6A
Chevy powered
Finishing panel, working on cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Comparison of Wing size |
(RVs vs MMII L/D stuff deleted)
Tedd McHenry sez...
>I, too, would like to hear some words of wisdom on this from those >with
more aerodynamics knowledge than me. All other things being >equal (which
they aren't in this case, mind you) which would have >the better L/D at
best glide, the small-wing airplane or the large->wing airplane?
Well if we take this to mean the *LONG* winged vs the *SHORT* winged plane
of equal weight and wing area... (say we build different wings for the same
fuselage and engine) then the LONGER wings will have better L/D. The
Aspect Ratio affects aerodynamic efficiency as a portion of the high
pressure "leaks" around the tips and spoils the performance of the outer
ends of the wings. Thus the longer the wing is the less of the total wing
is degraded. The down side is that it is difficult in terms of complexity,
weight, and stiffness to build extremely high aspect ratio wings. The
short wing is easier to build, weighs less, and can be considerably stiffer.
>The large-wing airplane will have more profile drag at all speeds,
>but it might well have less induced drag at best glide speed, due to
>a lower AOA, right? Which would have the dominant effect?
As pointed out above, if we had the same fuselage with 2 sets of wings of
the *SAME AREA*, the profile drag would be equal. The reason those Reno
Racers chop off the wing tips is to decrease wing *AREA* which lowers
profile drag at the expense of induced drag. Since induced drag drops as
speed increases, they don't care about the induced drag, only profile drag
at 500+ mph.
Your second comment sounds like you are wanting to compare wings of
different *AREA* not length (aspect ratio). In this case if you build a
second set of wings for your RV that is *TWICE* the size in each dimension
you will have 4 times the area. Stall speed should drop with the sq.rt. of
2, and you'll be able to out slow fly a SuperCub. Unfortunately, the
profile drag of all this additional wing area will kill your top speed, and
the extra weight will make your useful load drop to a single place with 30
minutes fuel. Except for the weight you'd have an ultralight.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | PhilipR920(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RMD Lighting |
Tks to all who responded.
I did get in touch with Bob DeBorde @ 503-628-6056 and ordered his lights.
Apparently he is doing well as there is a backlog for the lights.
I was impressed that he did not want any payment prior to shipping the kit.
He said "Wait until look at it. If you like it send payment, if not send it
back.
As I have seen his lights on several RV's, I'm sure I'll like, but it's nice
to deal with someone with his attitude.
Phil Rogerson 6AQ60057
Fernandina Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Paul Osterman III" <PineRanch(at)classic.msn.com> |
Hey Bob Nuckolls:
Caught your comment: "trying to hit a Flightwatch remote site from
50 miles out with a Terra transmitter can stretch your uV/M
pretty thin" on the Windshield Antenna thread.
Forgetting the windshield antenna thread for a moment, would you elaborate a
little more on your thoughts about Terra and some of the other manufacturers
of comm and nav radios. My finish kit should be here in a month and I'm
starting to think about what radio's/nav I'll be putting in. You know, no more
dreaming, it's time to make some choices and write a check. I must confess
that although I've been flying for over 20 years, to me (a rental pilot) a
radio has been well, just a radio. I assume that all the majors are equal in
quality, King, Narco, Terra, II Morrow...but since magazine reviews seem to be
mostly a review of features & benefits, I don't know how accurate my
assumption really is. I've just never paid much attention to manufacturer's
reputation for quality & service, or any of the "specifications" I see on the
back of some of the sell sheets I've picked up here and there.
For example, some comm radios have 5 watts of transmitting power while others
have 8 or 10. I've assumed that more watts means more clarity over a longer
distance, but I haven't a clue as to whether or not this is discernable to an
average weekend driver or is even true. Is there a general rule of thumb on
transmission distance per watt? Which of the many specifications usually found
on manufacturer's brochure are worthwhile paying attention to and trying to
compare one unit to another? Given your experience and expertise, if you were
in the market for a new set of radios for a cross country airplane, what
criteria would you use to make your purchase decisions? Anything in particular
you would avoid? Any general thoughts on the subject would be appreciated as
usual.
Paul Osterman
RV6A Fuse out of jig
Anderson, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Windshield Antenna |
-----Original Message-----
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Windshield Antenna
>
><< radio frequency power... can cause
> cancer. >>
>
>Warning: if we are not disciplined in our handling of this topic, a thread
>could be started which could one day occupy more archive space than the
>dreaded p----r thread>>>>
>
>IMHO, building and flying an experimental airplane is serious business and
>deserves our focused attention. RF cancer scares are, at present,
>unsubstantiated hysteria, and should not distract or detract from the
serious
>fun we should be having in our workshops.
>
>>Bill B
>
I concur with Bill!
I have am active in the field of radiation detection and measurement and I
have come to detest people who play upon the fears of others with the
dreaded RADIATION themes: Radon, CRT screens, power lines and now RF from
cell phones.
The risk of injury from flying an experimental aircraft is orders of
magnitude (1000 times, 10000 times, a whole lot) greater than sustaining any
kind of injury from the RF levels generated by a com radio. This is
substantiated by aviation insurance risk tables based on statistically
relevant data. There are no data whatever on injuries from RF levels
associated with com radios.
In all seriousness, if one's risk aversion carries over to RF fields from
small transmitters than perhaps this is the wrong hobby -- experimental
aircraft flying does carry a much higher risk than many other pursuits.
Those of us who love aviation learn to understand and manage those risks.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Nutritional aluminum? |
Hi folks
Now that I have your attention, I am wondering if any of you experience the
taste of aluminum after, say, scotchbriteing by hand for five minutes. I do
often and it makes me pretty certain I am absorbing it thru my skin. Metals
in the bod not good I think. Any Docs out there with an oppinion?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Subject: | Re: Specific primer question |
>
>All,
>
>I decided to go with the Sherwin Williams Wash Primer #P60G2 and Catalyst
Reducer #R7K44, largely because it is listed in the RV-8 construction manual
as being acceptable. When I went to the local S/W Automotive store (the
same store where I was able to find the elusive GBP988 rattle-can primer),
they didn't recognize these specific products by name. After some
discussion they happily sold me some "E2G973 Vinyl Etch Primer" and "R7K242
Reducer".
>
>Does anyone have experience with, or opinions on these products?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Larry
>larry(at)bowen.com
>Advance, NC
>RV-8 Emp.
>
Larry,
I am using the SW Wash Primer as well. This is the stuff Van's is using in
their prototype shop. It is cheap and easy to shoot. Be sure to reduce it
2:1, instead of the 1.5:1 that SW recommends. It sprays easier, but is
slightly more runny at first. It does dry to the touch quickly though.
This is a semi-transluscent primer, which means that it is not designed to
completely hide the metal underneath. It looks almost anodized when
properly applied.
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Elevators - Wings ordered!!
from a no-longer interested owner. True, the Vans
>series of airplanes have a better than average chance of outliving most
>homebuilts due to their fine engineering and conventional construction.
>
>But seriously, how long does your RV NEED to last??
>
>If you are intent on constructing a monument to the art of homebuilt
>aircraft construction, then by all means, prime that sucker till the
>cows come home! No doubt, several decades from now, our children will be
>leading their grandkids up to the museum exhibit of your plane and all
>present will be awed by the wonderfully crafted but humorously primitive
>state of aircraft back when the RV was in its heyday. Chuckles will
>erupt as the oldsters recall airplanes with props, and the hilarious
>panel with its collection of watch-like movements and primitive
>electronics will have heads wagging as they wonder why anybody with time
>and money to spend would have expended so much care in the preservation
>of such antiquated technology.
>
>Far out? Think about it. Does your RV REALLY need to last sixty years?
>If so, then prime that sucker till the swallows come home.
>
>I was looking through the repair manual of our 1940 J-3 the other day.
>In the section on wing overhaul, it stated that all non-alclad parts
>should be primed. The inference was that alclad parts were fine in their
>natural state.
>
>I must admit that the "prime that sucker or watch it fall from the sky"
>syndrome is a hard one to repel. Against my better judgment I primed the
>ribs of my RV6 the other day, but I must admit, I felt really silly
>shooting perfectly good primer on the alclad parts. However, I realize
>that not all (maybe very few?) builders share my thoughts, so I have no
>intention of persuading anybody who is inclined to prime everything in
>sight from doing just that.
>
>Whew....I feel better now. My apologies for taking up bandwidth to vent.
>However, I really do feel that a lot of folks are getting torqued out of
>shape over stuff that should be resolved quickly and simply, and are
>generating much too much stomach acid about building a 100 year airplane
>instead of just getting out in the shape AND BUILDING THE THANG!
>
>After all........isn't the whole point of this exercise........to fly?
>
>Sam Buchanan (assembling both wing skeletons)
>sbuc(at)traveller.com
>"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
>
Sorry for quoting the entire post, but it ALL seemed relevant. I couldn't
agree more with Sam's opinion. Aluminum does not just corrode into a
useless heap if left unattended for an hour. In some climates it may not
corrode at all - EVER. People sometimes ask me if I'm priming the inside of
my empennage skins. I say no and they give me that "don't fly over my
house" look.
I'm certainly not against priming anything, but don't put a lot of weight on
the issue. And by all means, don't let it hold up your project.
Personally, I went with the SW system because it is cheap, foolproof to
spray and painfully simple. Besides, this is what Van's is using on the
RV8A prototype. If it's good enough for the designer, it's good enough for
this flunkie builder.
Again, sorry for the megabyte response, but very well said in my opinion Sam.
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Elevators - Wings ordered!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Subject: | Re: F689 elevator pushtube |
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm working on the F689 forward elevator pushtube. I've carved out
>the needed amount on the weldment to get the stick to come within
>the 1/8" of the F604. I've gouged out some of the bulkhead for tube
>clearance, though a tad more is needed. However, when I set the
>sticks where I think neutral should be, the bellcrank at the rear end
>of the pushtube is tilted forward about twenty degrees at the top. I've
>made the pushtube per plan and have screwed the rod ends all the
>way into the bearings. Although I seem to be getting plenty of travel,
>I don't really like the bellcrank being off by that much. Have any of
>you run into a similar problem? I seems the geometry would dictate
>some deficiency in the elevator throws, one way or other. Since my
>distances on bulkheads, and such, are pretty much right on, it
>appears that the dimension for the pushtube at 47.5" is a tad too
>long?
>
>Jim Sears
>RV-6A #22220 (struggling with controls)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
the two pivot points on your bellcrank to be centered in a vertical line
with the stick in the neutral position. That way any fore or aft stick
movement would yield the same rate of travel at the elevators. The
situation you describe seems like it would yield a faster rate of travel
with aft stick movement than foreward movement from neutral.
Looking WAY ahead in my plans shows you are correct in your 47.5" length.
Is this the length of just the aluminum tube or is this the total length
from bearing center to bearing center? A look at the instructions says that
the stick should be neutral (0-5 degrees foreward) and the bellcrank
vertical, then the rod cut to length planning for good thread depth into the
tube. No mention of the 47.5" spec. I get the impression it's a custom fit
deal, which makes sense as everyone's fuselage length will vary a little.
Just my $.02 worth (albeit from a semi-newbie). Oh to be where you are!!
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Elevators - Wings ordered!!
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: What's the Average Completion Cost for Night VFR RV |
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I had $32k invested in my RV-6 without tools. I built the airplane
>from 1988
>to 1992. The engine cost $3.7k with a wood prop. The panel included
>full
>gyros, nav/com, transponder, loran (more than the cost of a superior
>GPS), and
>full night capability. I think you'd have to be a real scrounger to
>bring it
>in that low now.
>
>Rick McBride
>RV-6 N523JC
>RV-8 80027 (I've invested nearly $28k and am still working on the
>wings, ugh!)
>
>
It does take some scrounging but I think it can still be done for under
$30,000.
One good way for someone on a tight budget to complete an RV is to use
some of the major salvage outfits for parts.
I know of RV's (mine included) that have been completed this way.
You can buy anything that you need at reduced prices from new (including
engines) and get a guaranty that it will all work when you first start
test flying the airplane.
Working with homebuilders has become a big part of there business and the
are often good about making package deals if you buy a lot of stuff.
The only one I have personal experience with is Wentworth in Mpls.
They were good to do business with and replaced a couple of items that I
didn't like the condition of. Also replaced an instrument after it
failed in the first 10 hours or so, no questions asked.
This option might be something to consider when shopping for parts and
accessories.
A lot of parts I prefer to not purchase used but a lot of items are just
fine in an RV if they have been previously "flight tested".
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs. Finally Sold!
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
<34EDB47E.1258(at)tc3net.com>
From: | smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
I apologize for not having more specific info on the following, I will
try to find it.
Some interesting reading on a comparison of the MII and the RV-6 was
published in kit planes quite a few years ago.
An aviation writer once wrote an article about the wonderful new home
built that he had bought, an MII. He remarked about considering an RV-6
but knew that Fat wing airplane wouldn't perform as well.
Well Van wrote him a letter and the duel was scheduled.
I'm sure most of us can guess at the outcome. Needless to say, the
writer ended up doing another article (the one published in Kitplanes).
Does anyone out there know the issue it was published in?
Otherwise I will find it and post it here if any one is interested.
Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs. Finally Sold!
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Engine Baffle Ignition Wire Seals |
In a message dated 2/20/98 9:16:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
timrv6a(at)earthlink.net writes:
>>
Try a Lycoming dealer in your area to see what they get for them. I have them
from Lycoming, have'nt used them yet, still in bag. I imagine they are sized
for the Slicks that came on engine!
Dave (RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: That priming thing.... |
In a message dated 2/20/98 9:17:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sbuc(at)traveller.com writes:
<< Sam Buchanan (assembling both wing skeletons)
sbuc(at)traveller.com >>
Sam-----
I do'nt think your wing ribs are ALCLAD!!!!
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
Subject: | RV6A bottom seat skin |
Suppose a guy trimmed his seat belt holes just a little to large for his
likeing.
Is this something that really shows up as you look in I am unable to
remember
what it looks like. Also is there anybodys homepage constructing a 6AQB?
With pictures to view?
Thanks ----Mike Comeaux
RV6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GHLX34A(at)prodigy.com (MR GEORGE T KILISHEK) |
Subject: | RV-8 Wing Top Skins |
Thanks to all who replied to my question. Here's feedback on the
results.
I gently (hand pressure only) bent the trailing edge skin to conform
to airfoil shape aft of the spar, and relocated the aileron gap seal
to hold it there. Now fits fine, except for a small discontinuity at
the spar flange.
Lesson for all: check the angle of the rear spar flanges before
riveting skins on: they can be corrected with hand seamer at that
point, but only with great difficulty later.
It may not be such a big deal as I thought, anyway. Following is
Van's take on the matter (from Ken):
Subject: Re: RV-8 wing top skin
I have seen many RVs where the skin flares back a little aft of rear
spar.
I have never detected any difference in flight characteristics.
About the
only solution I can see is to use hand seamers to bend the rear spar
flange
to a little steeper angle.
Ken
>I have my left wing on the table, aileron fitted and as I fit the
gap
>seal I found this problem:
>
>The top wing skin, instead of following the airfoil shape downward
>over the aileron, comes directly aft from the rear spar (it appears
>to be parallel to the chord line, although exact measurement is
>difficult). It appears to be followiing the line of the top flange
>of the rear spar, which seems to be parallel to the chord line,
>rather than sloping downward as the drawing shows.
>
George Kilishek
#80006
Seeing if I can screw up the flap alignment
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: That priming thing.... |
<< Sam Buchanan (assembling both wing skeletons)
>sbuc(at)traveller.com >>
>Sam-----
>I do'nt think your wing ribs are ALCLAD!!!!
The ribs are alclad, as is everything I can think of which was made from
aluminum sheet. Most (maybe all) of the extruded bar stock and angle isn't
alclad and should be pr**ed.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Nutritional aluminum? |
<< I am wondering if any of you experience the
taste of aluminum after, say, scotchbriteing by hand for five minutes. I do
often and it makes me pretty certain I am absorbing it thru my skin. >>
What you're really doing IMO is breathing the finely divided dust. Blow your
nose later and you will see the blue/gray of aluminium dust in your snot.
Since we all swallow quarts of snot every day (sorry to be so graphic, but
it's true) you are ingesting the dust and tasting it on the way down. Yuk!
Wear dust mask or you will go as crazy as the rest of us, wandering around the
airport aimlessly and mumbling about airplane this and that.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: FEMALE BUILDERS |
you wrote:
> It might help to "bring her on-board" if she can communicate with a
> female builder or at least a dedicated helper. You see, she has nothing
> against the project I am about to start, but if I can "light the fire", then
> she will be a much more willing participant.(Bucking Rivets)
>
While I am not a female builder, I have the most dedicated helper in the world;
My wife. She will drop everything and give me a hand anytime. Drives a mean rivet
too! She is a loyal fan and is eagerly awaiting the day we can fly it to Oshkosh.
Drop us a line, my wife would love to talk to yours
Gary and Carolyn Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | FEMALE BUILDERS (also helpers in general) |
I almost always let my helpers use the gun while I buck. It makes them
happier and they come back to help next time I ask. I do think that
bucking is harder than shooting. My 13 year old daughter does flawless
work with the rivet gun.
Steve Soule
RV-6A fuselage STILL in the jig
-----Original Message-----
..... then
> she will be a much more willing participant.(Bucking Rivets)
....
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: FEMALE BUILDERS |
There was a female builder of an RV4 several month ago in Sport Avaiation. If
you can't find it, write me off line and I will see if I can.
Bernie Kerr
kerrjb(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
Subject: | Re: Magellin GPS |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> Pioneer works with a toot in an airplane. What say ye?
>
My wife bought me the Pioneer for Christmas and I've tried it several
times in a Cherokee 140 that I fly. Works great. to my knowledge I've
not lost tracking with it and I usually just lay it on the right front
seat when flying alone. However, when driving around in my car I do have
to keep it positioned so that it see's the sky or I do lose tracking.
It's very basic and other then the ability to mark where you are at a
point in time all info is entered manually.
It,s compact and easily fits in a shirt pocket. The navigation screen is
straight forward giving heading, bearing, distance, speed plus steering
directions and number of satellites being tracked. You can set up a
single route with several waypoints.
In my opinion, for $99 you cannot go wrong. I wanted it so that I could
practice navigating with it so that when I finally did install one in my
RV6 project I would have a more then general idea of what GPS navigation
was all about.
I have also taken it hiking with similar results and ordered a mounting
kit from Cabela's so that I could mount it on my boat to mark where I
caught that really big Lake Ontario salmon in the spring and fall.
Thanks
Fran Malczynski
RV6 (Wings, still)
Olcott, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack K. Holley" <jkholley(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Nutritional aluminum? |
Importance: Normal
> Hi folks
> Now that I have your attention, I am wondering if any of you experience
the
> taste of aluminum after, say, scotchbriteing by hand for five minutes. I
do
> often and it makes me pretty certain I am absorbing it thru my skin.
Metals
> in the bod not good I think. Any Docs out there with an oppinion?
>
>
If you're tasting it, you're probably inhaling it. IF it can be absorbed
through the skin (lots of argument on that), you would likely not absorb
enough to cause you to taste it.
Medically: Aluminum has been linked (not fully substantiated yet) to
conditions like Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. Of course, there are MANY
other factors than just Al levels, so don't get too concerned about it. IMO
it's still the safest material to build with.
Recommendations: Wear a good mask when scotchbriting, etc. Take a good
multi-vitamin/mineral and antioxidants.
Feel free to email me privately if you have other questions!
Dr. Jack K. Holley, D.C.
Chiropractic Physician
jkholley(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
How might one go about closing the fiberglass tips on the elevators/rudder
if one were uncomfortable with fiberglass? I've been playing around with
an aluminum cap but it is difficult at best to form and then what? rivet in
place? How about some discussion....inquiring minds want to know!!!
Bill Pagan
80555
waiting on the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com> |
Subject: | Re: F689 elevator pushtube |
22>
>I'm working on the F689 forward elevator pushtube. I've carved out
>the needed amount on the weldment to get the stick to come within
>the 1/8" of the F604. I've gouged out some of the bulkhead for tube
>clearance, though a tad more is needed. However, when I set the
>sticks where I think neutral should be, the bellcrank at the rear end
Jim,
I just finished doing this so maybe the following will help:
The placement of my bulkheads is pretty accurate too, but both of my
elevator pushrods had to be made shorter than the plans dimensions in order
to have the bellcrank vertical with the stick in the neutral position, and
the elevators in neutral at the same time. I think that the plans really
intend to give you a starting point that is safe - ie; too long - and you
cut and fit from there.
I used the view of the bellcrank that shows the top hole for the elevator
pushrod aligned with the aft edge of F628 on dwgs 32 and 40 to check for
vertical positioning.
Like you, I also had to grind away at the weldment and cut add'l material
from the top edge of the cutout in F605 - I think about 1/8" was necessary
there.
BTW, when you mount the elevators you will probably find that you have some
more fitting and cutting to do - I had to enlarge the fwd edge of the hole
in the aft deck and remove material from the rear spar channel of the HS in
order to get full down deflection, but from what I've read on the list,
this is quite common and causes no problems.
Hope this helps!
Bruce Stobbe
RV-6
control stops, etc.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Subject: | Re: FEMALE BUILDERS |
Jim, yes, there are female builders. At least one has been a
participant on the list. However, be aware that there is a whole slough
of RV wives. Many of them are as gung-ho about the project as their
husband. If your wife is going to be a partner in your project, she
might get more out of talking to them.
My wife is one of these. She was a little reserved at first, but she
let me go ahead. I made sure that she got to help, and she learned to
rivet at the same time I did. You can see her rivetting on my web page
at http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm and I would be happy to forward email to
her if your wife wants to ask questions. Involvement wasn't enough - it
wasn't until I dragged her to a gathering of the Michigan Wing that she
really believed that these things actually get off the ground. That's
all it took. While she declined to take a demo ride at Oshkosh, she
can't wait until we can take a flying vacation in our own RV.
So, get your wife out to where the RVs gather and let her meet some of
the women behind the RVs there. That'll bring her around.
PatK - RV-6A
JNice51355(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> The other day, my wife asked me if their were any female builders of RV's. I
> told her I wasn't sure, but thought there "must" be a few. Well, are there?
> If anyone knows of any women who are the primary builder of an RV, let me know
> please. It might help to "bring her on-board" if she can communicate with a
> female builder or at least a dedicated helper. You see, she has nothing
> against the project I am about to start, but if I can "light the fire", then
> she will be a much more willing participant.(Bucking Rivets)
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
Martin,
Years ago I pondered on the very same questions you are asking, you
have made an excellent choice by asking others imput. Number one: go
to a friends or fellow builder house who is building a fiberglass
airplane. Before you spend $30,000.00 Rub some epoxy based resin wet,
and dust (Not Polyester) on your arm to see if your allergic, you might
have to wait several days to see if there is a reaction. Many people are
allergic to these resins, I'm one of those people. Number two: Ask
Lancar if you can land that airplane on grass regularly? Number three:,
if question number two is negative, ask yourself what options you have
left if an emergency landing needs to be made and all you have is grass
and fields. Number 4: Ask Lancair what the speed is of there airplane
at stall, and when they come over the numbers, now refer to Number
three. A ruff landing in a RV at 45-55 mph is much better than a crash
landing at 90mph in a Lancair (survivability?). Now you say that you
don't plan on flying on grass strips(limiting your travel plans),
concrete is your pleasure. Then ask yourself this, in the future will
you be able to afford landing at privately controlled airports when they
start charging you for every takeoff landing. In addition, do you
want to participate in fly in's? Many of those are held on grass
fields. Lastly, I was born and raised on a 400 acre dairy farm in
Oshkosh WI. I've seen many beautiful airplanes, I've also seen several
piled up bloody messes in various fields around Oshkosh, in fact my
sisters tried to save the lives of two pilots that crashed into Lake
Winnebago. And you know the thing I remember most in these accidents
is the piled up pieces of fiberglass. There were 3 airplanes that
servived forced landing on our farm. One was a kitfox, the other two
were aluminum, I can't remember type. In each of the 3 events, the
pilot fixed their airplanes and took off. Martin the choice is yours,
but think it out clearly!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
Subject: | Re: FEMALE BUILDERS |
>
>
> The other day, my wife asked me if their were any female builders of RV's. I
> told her I wasn't sure, but thought there "must" be a few. Well, are there?
> If anyone knows of any women who are the primary builder of an RV, let me know
> please. It might help to "bring her on-board" if she can communicate with a
> female builder or at least a dedicated helper. You see, she has nothing
> against the project I am about to start, but if I can "light the fire", then
> she will be a much more willing participant.(Bucking Rivets)
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
Until recently there were quite a few posts from Cheryl Sanchez on
the list. From the name I assume she is female and she certainly
seemed to be a primary builder. The last posts I remember from her
were about engine installation I believe. I have wondered how she is
doing.
You could check the subscription list to see what her e-mail address
is, if she is still on the list that is.
Larry Pardue
RV-6Q Still working on canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Subject: | Forward elevator pushrod (F689) |
Thanks to Jon, Dennis, and Gil who responded very quickly to my
plight concerning the forward elevator pushrod length. As a result of
their input, I removed one rod end from the tube and cut one inch
from it. This was after I had made some measurements to see what I
needed to have good grip on the threads as well as some adjustment
room. I allowed about 1/8" adjustment either way on each end and
made sure they would not unthread themselves with that much
movement. With that, I tried the fit again. Perfect, as best I can tell
for right now. I have 1/4" adjustment either way and have a
bellcrank that's now sitting verticle at neutral. The control throws are
much better with only one place bumping. That's where the skin of
the seat floor makes it's bend upward toward the baggage
compartment. Since this happens at just about the full throw forward
on the sticks, I'm not worried about it. I'm not planning on inverted
flight or inverted spins. I'll do well to do the possitive stuff from
upright flight. :-) Of course, the truth to all of this won't come out
for sure until I put the elevators on, huh? Anyway, I carefully drilled
the holes and riveted things back together. Monday, I guess I'll drag
the old HS down for fitting to fuselage. That should be fun!
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A #22220
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
Subject: | RV-8 Aileron Gap Seal Question |
Where the aileron gap seals attach to the rear spar, there are the universal
head 470 rivet heads (attaching the ribs) preventing the gap seal from laying
flat against the rear spar. Do I just attach the thin (.020) gap seal by just
bending it over the protruding rivets and riveting in between? Hope you can
make sense of this. Also on the ends, the gap seal rests up on the aileron
brackets. The plans call for 52" on the gap seal, the part is actually 52
1/4". Is it supposed to rest on these brackets?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8#544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Fiberglass Tips |
<< How might one go about closing the fiberglass tips on the elevators/rudder
if one were uncomfortable with fiberglass? >>
Find someone who likes to work in fiberglass and pay them, or alternately do
reciprocal work for them that you enjoy. This is the greatest thing about the
pooling of talent amongg homebuilders.
Much of my fiberglass (short of the final sanding and filling) was done by my
friends who are building a Wheeler Express. They actually enjoy composite
work (go figure).
I, on the other hand, enjoy electrical system design and panel wiring (among
other things) so I did this for them in exchange.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Subject: | One more thought on PRIMER |
If the years 2075 AD through 2100 AD have any special meaning for you, then
by all means go the super-primer route. If not or if you think this post is
too simple then I wouldn't worry about corrosion. Just take care of the
aircraft after it is built. Al
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aileron Gap Seal Question |
Von,
The ribs are supposed to have 426 rivets where the gap seal passes over
them, you will have to drill out the rivets and install 426's. As far as
the aileron braket, I left mine long on top and cut it at an angle on the
end so it would not rest on the braket. Hope this helps.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Paralleled Batteries Article |
Some weeks ago, I promised to upload an updated version of
the dual battery article I did for Sport Aviation a few years
ago. It's finished and available at:
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bat_iso2.pdf>
We've purchased the software to generate the widely accepted
.pdf files. They're bigger than the old .html + graphics
files but MUCH easier to maintain on our website. Further,
they produce faithful printed copies of the work without
regard to the idiosyncracies of your browser and screen
resolution.
Another feature you'll see in this and future postings of our
printed materials is permission to republish any article in
a not-for-profit educational endeavor.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you do, >
< What you've always done, >
< You will be, >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Engine Baffle Ignition Wire Seals |
>
>AC$ wants $7.25 each for the 5mm two-wire seal to bring ignition
>wires thru the engine baffles. I'm using a Lightspeed electronic
>ignition, which uses 7.5mm wires. I suppose I could buy the AC$
>seals and drill them out a bit. Any listers have other clever ideas
>for this problem that have worked in service?
>
I used a large grommet (AN931-4-16, if I remember correctly). I elongated
the center hole so that two wires would fit through it, and slit one side so
I could get it over the wires. After installation, I sealed all the gaps
with high temperature silicon. It is not as pretty as the high priced
seals, but it was easy to install and seems to work well.
Mark
RV-6; flying, 165 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 Aileron Gap Seal Question |
Von, if you already have both wing skins on, or if you have riveted using
AN470s, putting in the AN426 rivets is not practical nor necessary. Just
drill holes, cut slots, make cutouts, etc. in the gap seal to fit over the
rivet heads and around the brackets. I have seen some that simply went over
the rivets, but not for me.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Von,
> The ribs are supposed to have 426 rivets where the gap seal passes over
>them, you will have to drill out the rivets and install 426's. As far as
>the aileron braket, I left mine long on top and cut it at an angle on the
>end so it would not rest on the braket. Hope this helps.
>
>
>
>Jim Cimino
>RV-8 sn 80039
>http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
>(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | More info on dimple tape |
Listers,
This morning I flew out in a 5 ship formation flight for
breakfast with 4 other RV's. After we ate and stood around the airplanes for a
bit I noticed that Hal Smiths airplane had the dimple tape on it. It turns out
his was the airplane in the article in sport aviation. The prop is hanging on
the wall in his hangar. I inquired about the speed increase with the tape and
the claims that the magazine article made. He told me that he didnt know how
they came up with those numbers and that the whole thing was a bunch of BS.
Thats right! He says that he cant even say that he had an increase of 1mph.
BTW the prop thats in the article does not have dimple tape on it. The prop is
actually dimpled. Just thought I would let you all know what he said before
you waste time and energy finding and installing the tape. Its like everything
else in life, if it sounds like its to good to be true it probably is. He
February 14, 1998 - February 21, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-eg