RV-Archive.digest.vol-ei

February 27, 1998 - March 07, 1998



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From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Pro-Seal Mix Ratio?
Listers, I happened to be in our local walmart tonight and bought a small dietetic scale. It is made by sunbeam and cost just under 5bucks. It measures in grams and ounces. Could be a handy tool for measuring proseal or fiberglass resin. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Arizona Builder's Group
From: smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Feb 26, 1998
On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:19:05 Paul Besing writes: > >Any builders from Arizona that would be interested in forming a >builder's >group? > > >Paul Besing >RV-6A QB (197AB) >Building up the tools.... >Still waiting on kit..... > > > > Paul, There is a loosely organized builders group in arizona that I believe is still sort of active. Contact Marvin & Maxine Horn at 602-546-0198 to find out. Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs. Finally Sold! These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 1998
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Runout Engine
22> Keep your eyes open for who gets to salvage the wind damaged planes in Florida. Any of the planes that get totaled might produce a good engine and/or prop. Mike McGee jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com N6358G A ship in port is safe but that is not what ships are for.. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com>
Subject: Slider frame ?
Date: Feb 26, 1998
> > >I attempted to use Frank Justice's recommendation. This is described > in step > >3 under "Completing the Canopy Assembly". He suggests grinding out a > >depression on the inside of the Plexiglas to recess the canopy into > the rear > >bow near the connection to the side tube. I don't have much of a > problem with > >a bulge at this point, however, it is difficult to get the trailing > edge of > >the rear skirt to contact the fuselage ( 0.15 inch gap). I may try a > metal > >tab extending from the rear of the frame near the hold down block to > the skirt > >to pull this a little tighter. > > Ken, I did exactly this and it turned out GREAT! I used about > six inches of .063 (~3/4" wide) and made a "braces" for each > side at the bottom aft end of the rear skirt / side skirt junction, > and hand bent it in some. Clecoed all together, it seals up > real nice and tight with the canopy closed. Make sure your > top fuselage skin right there clears the braces when you slide > it back. I didn't have the bulging problem mentioned above. > > > Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved) > RV-6AQME working on the sliding canopy... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Allegro Avionics
<< Does anyone know the phone number and/or the address for Allegro? >> Try the RV Builders' Yeller Pages. Allegro and dozens of other suppliers are listed. -GV rk. >> It's too bad that you spent all that money on the Bose when you could have had the Lightspeed 20K for about 1/3 of the price. IMO, for $415-$425, the Lightspeed is the best value out there. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lott, Michael" <Michael.Lott(at)ssc.nasa.gov>
Subject: ALCOHOL IN FUEL TEST
Date: Feb 27, 1998
A while back there was a small discussion on checking for alcohol in fuel. I started thinking again (uh oh), and remembered getting some STP type gas treatment that took care of water in fuel. I had a gallon jug full of gas and put a small amount (1/2 ounce) of water in the gas. I then put the STP treatment in the gas and mixed it up and the water was absorbed into the fuel. The STP had some form of alcohol in it. This is why I always thought if you mixed a little water in your gas, the water would "disappear" if there was alcohol in it. Somebody on the list said just the opposite of this, so, now I am wondering who is right. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Re: Lasar ignition
Hello Pat, The Lasar ignition does not require an additional switch, and the mags have no impulse coupling. Ron Vandervort, 0-360 with Lasar ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: rv4 cowl
Mike, are there any problems with the nutplates loosing their 'locking' ability after removing the cowl a few times? Would camlocs be better?? Royce Craven RV6A Melbourne Oz >>My vote is for screws and nut plates, holds the cowl tight and does not wear out and you do not burn your hands decowling a hot airplane. Replaced too many broken hinges. Mike > > >It is generally unnecessary to deburr dimpled holes; the dies remove any >burrs. However, remove any noticeable flash or curls of aluminum before >you dimple; I find a pass with a shop rag snags aluminum shavings still >attached to the hole and removes them. Also, many builders lightly >deburr dimpled holes, not to remove burrs but to make the rivets seat >better. If you do this, it requires a very light touch, practice on >scrap first. > >PatK - RV-6A > >Larry Bowen wrote: >> >> I dimpled the HS603PP before I deburred. According to the manual, this wrong. What should I do? > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: engine overhaul- increase comp to 10:1?
From: wstucklen1(at)juno.com (Frederic W Stucklen)
Mark, Another consideration might be the Prop. If one were to change the vibrational characteristics of the engine, they may also be changing the vibrational effects on their certified propeller........ Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Working on 2'd RV-6A - Chevy Powered!) wstucklen1(at)juno.com >Most who have met me would agree the I have no problem with an a/c having "too >much" power. (insert Tim Taylor grunting here) That being said, here are a >few things to consider about running compressions higher than 9.0:1. ***SNIP *** _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: engine overhaul- increase comp to 10:1?
<< OK Mark, I tried not to get involved in this one but you just had to go and drag me in. I hate to burst your buble or anyone elses but! I have been running 10:1 compression on my engine since I overhauled it 450hrs ago. My engine runs as smooth as any I have sat behind (knock on wood). I throw in a quart of oil about every 13 hrs. I have chrome cylinders and deffinately have not had any of the linning comming off. >> Ryan: Keep in mid that you operate from a 5000' msl area, so you don't get much more than 80-85% power. This would reduce your power output to v close, or even less than, the rated 160 HP (180 x .8 = 144HP). Your engine should feel exactly the same as a 150 would at SL. Now, I've seen your bird at the SWRFI (used to be Kerrville), so I know that you operate at low altitudes also. Can you feel stronger power pulses at lower altitudes (during climbout)? Is your engine dyna-focal or conical mounted? Chrome peeling: I'd guess this would be a factor for engines operated at continous high power settings- 90% and above (hard acro with its associated intentional overspeeds). I envy your oil burn! My 0-320 was similar. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Starter Solonoids.
>I'd like to see if we can identify which brand(s) of starter contactors seem >to be the bad actor(s). If possible, those of you who have first hand >knowledge of starter contactor failures, both from "not de-energizing" and >"not energizing", please post info. All are designed only for "intermittent >duty". It doesn't have to be from an RV as long as you can ID the >manufacturer. > >Wag-Aero and Wicks both supply White-Rogers P/N 70-111225-5 (aka Stancor >70-914) > >ACS P/N 22735 is actually Federal-Mogul P/N 7000022735 (aka Capsonic 227035) > >Van's supplies Cole-Hersee P/N 24022 > >Okay, folks. These are the major horses in this race. Since I proposed this >"Consumer Reports" of sorts, I'll keep score. Post directly to me. Let's see >if we can discover a trend here. Problem is, lots of folk are using all of those part numbers, some for years with no difficulties. The RBM/Stancore/White-Rogers part is a direct descendant of the contactors flying in thousands of Cessnas. The time and dollars required to do rational life testing of various parts to ascertain the physical data is huge. The outcome of such tests questionable because of the myriad of variables which contribute to contactor sticking. Here's an excellent example of where failure tolerant design makes a lot of sense. Assume right out of the box that ANY contactor you put in the starter control slot is going to fail. Instead of agonizing over poor data and anecdotal stories, you as the designer of your airplane's electrical system can make sure that when and if the failure does occur, it's no big deal. Long live the starter engaged indicator light. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: engine overhaul- increase comp to 10:1?
>Mark, > > Another consideration might be the Prop. If one were to change the >vibrational characteristics of the engine, they may also be changing the >vibrational effects on their certified propeller........ > >Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV This is why the extended hub prop is not certified for the non-counterwieghted IO-360. Steve Barnard and Dave Anders(?) are using counterweighted engines. This allows the extended hub M2YR which is now available through Van's. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: ALCOHOL IN FUEL TEST
> A while back there was a small discussion on checking for alcohol in fuel. > I started thinking again (uh oh), and remembered getting some STP type gas > treatment that took care of water in fuel. I had a gallon jug full of gas > and put a small amount (1/2 ounce) of water in the gas. I then put the STP > treatment in the gas and mixed it up and the water was absorbed into the > fuel. The STP had some form of alcohol in it. This is why I always thought > if you mixed a little water in your gas, the water would "disappear" if > there was alcohol in it. Somebody on the list said just the opposite of > this, so, now I am wondering who is right. I'm the somebody. My source is Field Information No. 306 from EAA HQ, "Field Test for Determining Presence and Amount of Alcohol in Gasoline", which gives the field test procedure developed by Conoco, Inc. A summary of the method: "A sample of gasoline is shaken at room temperaure with an amount of added water. The volume increase of the water is proportional to the amount of alcohol initially in the fuel sample. 9 parts of the gasoline sample are combined with 1 part of water." I suggest anyone interested in this topic call EAA and get their auto fuel info packet. It is quite comprehensive and helpful. Bob Reiff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net>
Subject: Re: Bose Headset evaluation
Vanremog wrote: > It's too bad that you spent all that money on the Bose when you could have had > the Lightspeed 20K for about 1/3 of the price. IMO, for $415-$425, the > Lightspeed is the best value out there. > > -GV I agree. At Sun-N-Fun last year, I listened to Bose and Lightspeed side-by-side in one of those little acoustic eggs that have sound from various airplanes piped in. The Lightspeed 20K sounded as good or better than the Bose. I've had a Lightspeed 20K for several months now, and have been very happy with it. It's lighter, and fits so comfortably that it's easy to forget it's being worn. When I had the opportunity to fly it in something *really* noisy (more than an RV6 :-) I found that the noise-cancelling mike wasn't quite as good as that in a David Clark. The intercom had to be squelched quite high to keep my microphone from transmitting. This required me to raise my voice to active the VOX intercom. I called Lightspeed, and they said they'd switched to another microphone with lower gain around December 1996. They replaced my microphone with the new one for free, and the problem went away. A very few headset allow the microphone gain to be adjusted, but Lightspeed isn't one of them. -- -------- Rob Rimbold rimbold(at)ntr.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Wingtip lenses
<< BUT! How else would a fella get the lights inside a fairing? It just seems wrong to have 'em sticking out in the wind.. >> I installed my position lights behind the lenses that I got from Van's. The white light, as you would expect, is in the rudder. I installed the strobe in the HS. I fly at night and have no problem (unless IFR) with the strobe reflections. When in the soup (in any aircraft) I always turn off the strobes. My strobe in the fairing doesn't stick-up mone than about an inch and can be seen 360 degrees (level or above the aircraft) As we all know, lights behind a fairing aren't completely legal for night ops because they do cut-off some of the required viewing angle. My buddies fly with the pos/strobe external mounted lights on the wing tips and I have to admit that I can see a strobe on their aircraft from any angle. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: Wingtip lenses
Date: Feb 27, 1998
>For all of you contemplating installing those wingtip lenses from >Chief, or the ones that Van sells: > >My advice is "Don't Do it." > >dave Barnhart >rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Dave: I just got a E-mail back from Chiefs & they said they don't handle that light lenes kit. Why put it in the catalog? I saw it on Jay Pratt's 6 over at Weatherford & like the looks. Thanks for your comment, I guess I got to start over. Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx donspawn(at)juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com
Subject: WorkBench
Date: Feb 27, 1998
I am finishing the structural modifications to my machine shop and plan to order an empenage kit within the next two weeks. What size of workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? Are there any little tricks (such as grooves for clamping, etc) that might make benchwork easier? Thanks, Pat. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Don McMullen <donrmc(at)gte.net>
Subject: unsubscribe
Can Someone tell me the exact wording to unsubscribe to the list I am too busy to read all this stuff right now and feel overwelmed at all the E-mail messages I am getting. Thanks Don McMullen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: emcole(at)ix.netcom.com (Edward Cole)
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
You wrote: > > >Can Someone tell me the exact wording to unsubscribe to the list I am >too busy to read all this stuff right now and feel overwelmed at all the >E-mail messages I am getting. Thanks >Don McMullen > > > > Don, subject. This is a copy of the message at the bottom of every post!! Note: it is to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Bose Headset evaluation
>I cam into a litle extra cash, and bought a Bose headset. I went out and >flew with it and two other headsets this past weekend, and thought I would >pass along my observations. >Dave Barnhart Dave, Be prepared to get jumped on for spending too much money. I bought a Bose a few years ago on a trip to S&F. I flew the 9 hour trip down with the Telex 4000 ANR. Bose had a 30 day trail, so I bought one & used in on the return trip. Absolutely no comparison. I kept the headset. Naturally, a cheaper ANR (the Lightspeed) came out after I purchased the Bose. I also bought one of the first Sony Walkmans & I'm the other guy who bought a Beta VCR. The other day, I tried a friends new David Clark ANR. It, too, blew the socks off the Telex 4000 ANR, seemed comfortable (which my previous 10-30 was not) and was almost as good as the Bose. If the Lightspeed is as good as the new David Clark, I would probably be tempted to buy either one instead of the Bose just to save a few bucks. But, I sure don't consider the Bose wasted money. I have lost a lot of my hearing ability and have priced hearing aids. The Bose is cheap when compared to these. I am also using the "system", i.e. Flight Following, FSS, etc. to much greater advantage. I was always reluctant to use such services before because I had a hard time understanding. The Bose headset has made aviating much more fun and enjoyable & I think that I'm a better, safer pilot when using the headset. Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: engine overhaul- increase comp to 10:1?
<< Keep in mid that you operate from a 5000' msl area, so you don't get much more than 80-85% power. This would reduce your power output to v close, or even less than, the rated 160 HP (180 x .8 = 144HP). Your engine should feel exactly the same as a 150 would at SL. Now, I've seen your bird at the SWRFI (used to be Kerrville), so I know that you operate at low altitudes also. Can you feel stronger power pulses at lower altitudes (during climbout)? Is your engine dyna-focal or conical mounted? >> Mark, I have had the airplane to sea level many times. The only difference I notice is that it feels like I have a jet pack strapped on for take off. Now obviously this has nothing to do with the 10:1 it would feel that way with any set up after being used to flying from a 5000' strip. The power difference between here and there is unbelievable. I have a dynofocal mount and at least can not feel any noticeable pulsing or vibration at any altitude or power setting. If thier are any problems with mine or any of the others I know of I will be happy to let the list know. I definatly would not want to steer anyone down the wrong path. My advice is if your aprehensive about something like this dont do it. If you decide to do it make sure its done by a reputable shop or make darn sure you know what your doing if you do it yourself. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: WorkBench
Date: Feb 27, 1998
If you have the room several tables would be nice. I have a very small shop and am building a quickbuild 6a, just so you know where I am coming from. My shop is 10 by 20'. I have a single multi-purpose bench. This bench has the bending brake that is published in the plans module on the front face. The size of the table top is 3' by 6'. I have a 4 by 8 sheet of fiberboard that I normally have on top of the table and this gives me plenty of room to work. Of course more room would be nice, but hey I've got to put the fuselage somewhere. I use the small top for the finish bends on stuff and the larger top for general work. The biggest piece I had to put on my bench was when I dimpled the wing skins. I could have used a larger top or even possibly a recessed slot for my C-Frame, but I got by without it. One thing I would recommend is building the small EAA (Tony B.) workbench for the grinder, band saw, drill press and sander. I did not have all of these when I started but now with them all on this bench it really works out great. This bench is on casters so that it can be moved about in my extremely small workplace and you can rotate it to the tool you are using. That comes in real handy. I got most of my ideas from looking at the linked web sites off of Van's web page. Even though there aren't many shop pictures, you can glean some shop/organizational stuff off of the background of many of the "RV" pictures shown. I think shop organization is absolutely key and the workbenches and shelves that you put in there are a big part of it. Gary K. Fesenbek System Engineer Meridium, Inc. gfesenbek(at)meridium.com www.meridium.com <http://www.meridium.com> -----Original Message----- From: armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com [SMTP:armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com] Sent: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:23 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: WorkBench I am finishing the structural modifications to my machine shop and plan to order an empenage kit within the next two weeks. What size of workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? Are there any little tricks (such as grooves for clamping, etc) that might make benchwork easier? Thanks, Pat. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com>
Subject: Mike and Headset Jacks...?
Date: Feb 27, 1998
For those interested. I tried o-rings in my front headphone jacks yesterday (club 172 that I fly and maintain) to eliminate TX noise. My TX is received loud and clear by the tower but is very scratchy and muffled in the plane. I thought the o-rings worked at first, but the noise returned. My next try is to replace my comm antenna. I may try to insulate the rear seat jacks too. Anyway, that's what I've found so far. Any other ideas? Rich Zeidman A&P RV6A S/N25224 Wing kit on the way > >It corrected some playback noise in my radio. An MX11. Sounded very > > >mushy when tramx. Sent to who I bought it from. Their correction > was > to > >send me the 2 washers per jack. I've never seen them advertised > >until Bob says he has them. > > > > My intercom recommended the use of them. I couldn't find any place to > get them short of a "mounting kit" that cost around $30 or so. I > ended > up using suitably sized rubber grommets. Fit the grommet through the > (larger than normal) mounting hole, the install the jack through the > grommet and gently tighten. This insulates it nicely from the panel > and > it works just as well as the fiber washers. > > > Now that Bob has them it's not as big a deal, but the rubber grommets > are > still cheaper and easier to find locally. I have a kit of lots of > different sizes and was able to fix it up quickly. > > > Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 > > - > > _____________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: WorkBench
> What size of > workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? > Are there any little tricks (such as grooves for clamping, etc) that > might make benchwork easier? One "trick" is to go check the local furniture liqidation outlets. I found a rather beat up used workbench that nonetheless was usable and had a nice thick dense particle board top (recommended), for $25. Randall Henderson randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AB320FLYER(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: engine overhaul- increase comp to 10:1?
Mark, You are correct that all IO-360's are not counterweighted. Only if there is a 6 in the suffix of the engine identifier, does it have counterweights. I purchased an IO-360 with high compression pistons mainly because I'll be operating from a high altitude field and starting takeoff roll with only about 75% of rated power. If I lived at a lower elevation I probably would have stuck with the 8.7 to 1 pistons. Joel Harding ab320flyer(at)aol.com >Also, I don't think that all IO-360's are >counterweighted- Can another lister confirm this? ar electronic ignition >mags? Do you need a separate switch for the electronic part? How about for >starting? Is there an impulse coupling on one mag like the standard ones? > I'm pretty much in the dark on such subjects. Any enlightenment would be >appreciated. > Pat Allender > Iowa City ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: engine overhaul- increase comp to 10:1?
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
>Keep in mid that you operate from a 5000' msl area, so you don't get much more >than 80-85% power. This would reduce your power output to v close, or even >less than, the rated 160 HP (180 x .8 = 144HP). Your engine should feel >exactly the same as a 150 would at SL. 144hp would be the power output for this engine at this altitude, and not to pick a nit, but I think 150 owners would LOVE to have 144hp available at sea level. Unfortunately, they have to make do with 100hp out of their 0-200. Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ - _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: gcomfo(at)tc3net.com (Gordon Comfort)
Subject: Re: Allegro Avionics
Jim Moore wrote: > > > Does anyone know the phone number and/or the address for Allegro? I'm > interested in their engine monitor and analyzer. > > Jim Moore > RV8 fuse. Jim: Try 520 327 3695 and ask for Peter du Bois. GComfort ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: rv4 cowl
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Bob, Did you put the whole cowl together using platenuts or just at the firewall? Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Mike and Headset Jacks...?
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
> For those interested. > I tried o-rings in my front headphone jacks yesterday (club >172 >that I fly and maintain) to eliminate TX noise. My TX is received loud >and clear by the tower but is very scratchy and muffled in the plane. >I thought the o-rings worked at first, but the noise returned. My next try >is to replace my comm antenna. I may try to insulate the rear seat jacks >too. >> get them short of a "mounting kit" that cost around $30 or so. I >> ended up using suitably sized rubber grommets. Fit the grommet through I'm not sure how you used o-rings. If you just put one on the front and/or back of the jack you are still grounding the center of the barrel to the panel. The idea is to completely insulate the jack from the panel, hence the use of a rubber grommet - but you do need to drill a bigger hole. This works great for a new installation, but for a retro-fit on a factory bird you might want to get the fiber washers. The fiber washers are not just washers, they also have a "shoulder" to completely insulate the jack from the panel. I'm not sure if this is causing your particular problem or not, but you might try insulating all of the jacks before replacing the antenna. I would think that if the transmission is getting out then the antenna wouldn't be causing the problem. But then again... Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ - _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Determining Percent Engine Power
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
> The post suggests simply adding the first two digits of >engine RPM (probably rounded to the nearest hundred) to the manifold >pressure and if the sum equals 48 the engine is running at 75% power, >if the sum is 45 the power setting is 65%, etc. While this method is >simple to understand and use many of the "Local Experts" I have >consulted disagree with this method entirely. Unfortunately the power >charts for my Lyc 0360 are so small I can't read them even with a mag. Hi Chet. Your "local experts" need some continuing education. This method has been around for a long time, and is accurate to within a couple of percentage points. It doesn't work on turbocharged engines (at least not in the same format) but it is very accurate on normally aspirated powerplants. I was sceptical at first, but I've checked it against many engine power charts and factory POH's, and it works very well. I believe it loses some accuracy below 45%, but if you cruise in that area you certainly don't need to worry about leaning. Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ - _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Drilling the elevator horns
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Listers, I tried using the archives again and ran into my usual trouble of not getting what I was looking for. I'm ready to drill the elevator horns for the pushrod. How did you fellas approach that? I'm not sure I can do it on the airframe; but, I'm also pretty sure I can't do a good job of holding things together so I can remove them for the drilling. Mine are about 5/8" apart. So, what did you do? BTW, I may also want to put in a stiffener to help eliminate the torque forces being carried to the bolt that holds the bearing at the pushrod end. Boy, this thing sure looked neat with the VS an HS in place. :-) Jim Sears in KY RV-6A #22220 (Pondering what to do next.) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Mike and Headset Jacks...?
g.com> > > For those interested. > I tried o-rings in my front headphone jacks yesterday (club 172 >that I fly and maintain) to eliminate TX noise. My TX is received loud >and clear by the tower but is very scratchy and muffled in the plane. I >thought the o-rings worked at first, but the noise returned. My next try >is to replace my comm antenna. I may try to insulate the rear seat jacks >too. > Anyway, that's what I've found so far. > Any other ideas? > Rich Zeidman A&P > RV6A S/N25224 > Wing kit on the way > If you need insulating washers on any jacks, you'll probably need them on all jacks. Also, you mention insulating headset jacks but don't speak about microphone jacks. You can see if insulation will help by dismounting ALL jacks and just let them dangle. I had one guy who flew his airplane for two weeks this way . . took some 1" heatshrink and closed it down over the jacks with plugs in place. Kept things all cozy and short-proof until his avionics shop could get the washers. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Subject: Subscribe
From: rvinfo(at)juno.com (Dave Smith)
suscribe _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Lasar ignition
Date: Feb 27, 1998
I don't believe that CHT probes are on the LASAR systems on the new engines supplied by Van's, at least it wasn't on mine. According to the literature, that option is for certificated birds that have known CHT operating perimeters. Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA > >Pat, >The difference is the addition of a system controller, low voltage control >harness, a CHT probe, and a manifold pressure pickup. The electronic portion >is primary and activates both magneto coils for start. The standard >magneto's are used as backup and the changeover is done automatically through >the controler. I'm pretty sure there are no impulse couplings, so electrical >energy is required for start. > >Joel Harding ab320flyer(at)aol.com > > >> Does anyone know what the difference, if any, is between wiring the >>ignition >>of an engine with regular mags and one with the Lasar electronic ignition >>mags? Do you need a separate switch for the electronic part? How about for >>starting? Is there an impulse coupling on one mag like the standard ones? >> I'm pretty much in the dark on such subjects. Any enlightenment would be >>appreciated. >> Pat Allender >> Iowa City > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: rv4 cowl
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Bob, thanks for getting me to thinking about the Camloc question again. I had to sit back and remember just how it was that I put on and took off my -6A top cowl using hinge pins and how I would do it if I had Camlocs installed instead. I think you're right, at least about the sides. I can imagine that installing the cowl with Camlocs there would be a royal pain, especially toward the front. I have a friend who is using 2700 series Camlocs all around on his -4 who says he's happy with his, but it isn't painted to get scratched up yet, after 6+ years. So, I think for me, it's either screws, which I'm not too fond of, or hinge pins with their attendant shortcomings. However, across the top, I still think stainless Camlocs would be a good, although expensive, option; not too difficult to install; quick to remove or button up; and would hold it down tight, unlike the hinge pins which allow it to raise up when the cowl is pressurized. Decisions, decisions!! BTW, I returned all the floating type adjustable Camloc receptacles that I got from Skybolt for a refund. I really don't think they're all that neat; they are expensive; I don't think they're needed on the S-type cowl; and I don't like how the company does business. Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA > >>are there any problems with the nutplates loosing their 'locking' ability >>after removing the cowl a few times? >>Would camlocs be better?? >>Royce Craven > >Royce, > Yes, the nutplates will lose their locking ability after so many >"operations". > The downside to Dzus or camlocks: cost, weight, more difficult to install >(special tools needed), loosen in service, wallow out holes in fiberglass, >ratty looking (if painted) & the protruding studs can scratch your paint as >you install or remove the cowl and thus make cowling & de-cowling more >difficult than necessary. > >Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu>
Subject: Re: WorkBench
> What size of workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? >Are there any little tricks (such as grooves for clamping, etc) that >might make benchwork easier? > >Thanks, > >Pat. Hello Pat, My favorite 'trick' is that I screwed a 2 foot wide particle board section(s) to the horizontal beam of the empennage 'H' jig. Works great! I say screw(deck screws) as I can remove sections real quick when I need to use it. It is also at a good height. What seems best for me is long and narrow as opposed to short and wide. Also a must is being able to access it from all sides. Narrow flat doors over a stable base is about perfect. By the way, I purchased a 4x8 3/4" particle board for $11. Bench on casters mentioned by Gary Fesenbek sounds intriguing! Regards Vince Himsl RV8 rudder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: rv4 cowl
>Bob, >Did you put the whole cowl together using platenuts or just at the >firewall? >Steve Soule Steve, I stayed with the piano hinge for the horizontal, top to bottom cowl connection and on the vertical portions of the bottom cowl. I've never heard of any problems in this area and have not experienced any problems with my installation and I would use this installation again. Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Feb 27, 1998
I think you send "unsubscribe" in the body to rv-list-request(at)matronics.com in lieu of the rv-list(at)... Sorry to loose you. Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx donspawn(at)juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: Lanair
Date: Feb 27, 1998
02/27/98 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record RECORD 3 **** A. Type: Accident Mid Air:N Missing:N Entry date: 02/27/98 From: SPOKANE, WA, ATCT B. Reg.No.: 109GF M/M: EXP Desc: EXP/HOMEBUILT: 1997 LANCAIR IV Activity: Unknown Phase: Climb GA-A/C: General Aviation Descr: ACFT TOOK OFF AND CRASHED INTO A HOME ABOUT 5 NM FROM THE ARPT, THE 2 POB SUFFERED FATAL INJURIES, THE ACFT WAS DESTROYED, THERE WERE NO GROUND INJURIES, ALL OTHER INFORMATION IS UNKNOWN, COEUR D'ALENE, ID. WX: METAR KCOE 261554Z 00000KT 1 1/4SM OVC006 M02/M02 A3000 Damage: Destroyed C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 UNK: D. Location City: COEUR D'ALENE State: ID E. Occ Date: 02/26/98 Time: 15:49 F. Invest Coverage. IIC: Reg/DO: NM11 DO CTY: BOISE DO State: ID Others: NTSB G. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: COEUR D'ALENE, ID Dep Date: 02/26/98 Time: Dest: BILLINGS, MT Last Radio Cont: UNKN Flt Plan: UNK Last Clearance: UNKN WX Briefing: Other: _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Drilling the elevator horns
> I'm ready to drill the elevator horns for >the pushrod. How did you fellas approach that? I'm not sure I can >do it on the airframe; but, I'm also pretty sure I can't do a good job of >holding things together so I can remove them for the drilling. Mine >are about 5/8" apart. So, what did you do? BTW, I may also want >to put in a stiffener to help eliminate the torque forces being carried to >the bolt that holds the bearing at the pushrod end. >Jim Sears in KY Jim, I machined a piece of 1" stock to fit between the elevator horns when mounted. I drilled a #30 hole through the spacer. I drilled a #30 hole through one elevator horn, slid the drilled spacer in between the horns & lined it up with the hole drilled in the elevator horn. I then clamped everything together and drilled the opposite horn. The #30 hole through the spacer assured a straight bit which meant the holes on both sides would line up. I then enlarged the holes in the horn. I used the drilled spacer to repeat the process above where the rod end attaches and drilled the horns and spacer to 3/16" and bolted it in place. My thinking here was to tie the two elevators together. In case the bolt or rod end should fail, there might then be a chance to still control the plane because the two elevator halves are tied together & you could use the elevator trim control to, hopefully, complete a sucessful landing (although I'd prefer never to have to try this.) Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Bose Headset evaluation
>It's too bad that you spent all that money on the Bose when you could have had >the Lightspeed 20K for about 1/3 of the price. IMO, for $415-$425, the >Lightspeed is the best value out there. well, I'm not going to get into that discussion. It's kinda like talking about primers. I will say this: 1. A few months back I flew in a helicopter with a Bose headset. The Bose's ability to block out all that racket was nothing short of amazing. I could *feel* the ship vibrating, but could not hear it. With the headset off, the noise associated with the vibrartion was deafening. 2. I am just as concerned about the Hi-Fi Stereo qualities of the headset as I am the ANR qualities. If all I was looking for was ANR, I probably would have bought a Dave Clark ANR headset. I did not have the chance to try a Lightspeed vs Bose comparison with the audio system in my airplane, but I did compare the Bose vs DC. The Bose was significantly better in the Hi-Fi department. I'm confident that a comparison with the Lightspeed would yield similar results. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@iis-intellect.com>
Subject: Plexi drills
Date: Feb 27, 1998
Can anyone tell me if it is advantageous to use the plexiglass drills over the standard split-point when drilling the canopy to the slider frame? It would seem to me that the plexi drills would not cut through the steel very effectively. Thanks, Bob Japundza Network Consultant, MCSE ImageMax, Inc. bjapundza@iis-intellect.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com>
Subject: Re: Drilling the elevator horns
22> <199802271708.KAA18783(at)home1.trib.com> <199802271708.KAA18783(at)home1.trib.com> > >Listers, > >I tried using the archives again and ran into my usual trouble of not >getting what I was looking for. I'm ready to drill the elevator horns for >the pushrod. How did you fellas approach that? I'm not sure I can >do it on the airframe; but, I'm also pretty sure I can't do a good job of >holding things together so I can remove them for the drilling. Jim, I've just completed that myself (sounds like we are working at the same pace more or less) and here's how I did it: 1. With one elevator off the airplane, mark and drill a #40 pilot hole in the horn. Remount it to the HS. 2. Find a scrap piece of material the correct thickness (5/8" in my case) to fit snugly between the control horns. Drill a #40 pilot hole through this material. 3. Clamp both elevators in neutral position (since I have my elevators overbalanced right now, I just clamped a scrap piece of AL across the top of the counterweight arms that extended over the HS, preventing the elevator from moving). 4. Clamp the scrap piece of material between the horns with the #40 holes aligned - use a drill blank or drill bit shaft for alignment. 5. Now you can drill the #40 pilot hole in the opposite control horn in perfect alignment with the first pilot hole. 6. Now drill the entire assembly open to 3/16". Worked great for me - good luck. BTW, if you think it *looks* great, wait until you get in it with the controls connected and wiggle the stick a little; talk about smoooooth. :>) Bruce Stobbe RV-6 fwd fuselage misc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: 4 Sale-Piper Pitot
spencer wrote: > > > Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com wrote: > > > > > > Anyone needing a VFR pitot? I have a blade type Piper pitot w/out the > > heating element. I decided to go full IFR so I can't > > use this one. Eric; If your Piper pitot has 2 additional holes about 3/16" dia. and roughly 4" deep (one 1/2" deeper than the other) new heating elements can be purchased from Faith Aircraft at 916 368 1832. $100.00 for both elements which are brand new. Marty RV-6A/N464MS(rsvd) Erwinna. Pa. starting fuse. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: WorkBench
Good tip. The local university has a large liquidation warehouse; I was able to get a table for $10. The thing weighs a ton with a very solid table top. I halved a sheet of particle board and put both pieces on top. When I finished a part (elevator, for example) I simply turned the sheet over or swapped it to the bottom, so I had clean surface for four parts. It has been all the workbench I need; many empennage spar tasks were done on the crossbeam of the jig, and the wing spars were done on my living room floor. However, the more workbench you can get, the easier things will be. PatK - RV-6A Randall Henderson wrote: > > > What size of > > workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? > > Are there any little tricks (such as grooves for clamping, etc) that > > might make benchwork easier? > > One "trick" is to go check the local furniture liqidation outlets. I > found a rather beat up used workbench that nonetheless was usable and > had a nice thick dense particle board top (recommended), for $25. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bs(at)cbtek.com (Bill Shaw)
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
Date: Feb 27, 1998
> > Can anyone tell me if it is advantageous to use the plexiglass drills > over the standard split-point when drilling the canopy to the slider > frame? It would seem to me that the plexi drills would not cut through > the steel very effectively. Bob- Plexi drills were never meant to drill through steel. They have been "dulled" so that they won't take such a big bite out of plexi, which causes cracking, splittiing, etc. Also, it's recommended that the plexi be warm, i.e. at least 70 degrees F. when drilling - 80F is even better. :>)) Bill > > Bob Japundza > Network Consultant, MCSE > ImageMax, Inc. > bjapundza@iis-intellect.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
ect.com> >Can anyone tell me if it is advantageous to use the plexiglass drills >over the standard split-point when drilling the canopy to the slider >frame? It would seem to me that the plexi drills would not cut through >the steel very effectively. >Thanks, >Bob Japundza No they don't cut metal worth a damn. In fact, after you use them in metal, you can pretty well kiss them good bye for plexi use. I suggest a thin wood shim be hind each hole as you drill through the plexi towards the metal. (Paint mixing stick?) *AFTER* the hole in the plexi is complete come back with a 135 degree split point bit and drill the metal. If you drill through the plexi and into the metal on the first hole, your second and each additional hole in the plexi will be less likely to succeed without cracks! The whole idea is to drill the plexi with a bit that is most likely to succeed with no cracks. Most any bit will drill the metal. So the advantage of the plexi drill is less chance of a crack if used properly. If you should find the need to drill through the metal frame *FIRST* on some holes, I'd stop as soon as possible after clearing the far side of the metal and then come back with a plexi drill and back up the canopy with a block of wood to drill through it. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly <Ferdfly(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: rv4 cowl
<< So, I think for me, it's either screws, which I'm not too fond of, or hinge pins with their attendant shortcomings. >> Les, On my RV-4 , I used stainless steel hinges instead of aluminum, A little harder to build but I`m betting they wont break. Fred LaForge Engine, Cowl Air cleaner, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 1998
From: Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com>
Subject: Re: rv4 cowl
Royce Craven wrote: > > > Mike, > are there any problems with the nutplates loosing their 'locking' ability > after removing the cowl a few times? > Would camlocs be better?? > > Royce Craven > RV6A Melbourne Oz > > >>My vote is for screws and nut plates, holds the cowl tight and does not > wear out and you do not burn your hands decowling a hot airplane. Replaced > too many broken hinges. Mike > > > Royce, Camlocs would work ok except that they are more expensive and do not hold the cowl as tight. After 800 hrs of flying I never had a screw loosen up and in the beginning I ran a tap thru the nutplates as it was hard to install the screws. I built RV-6 serial # 4. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbldr3170 <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: engine overhaul
<< I have a low time io-360 which will be overhauled soon. Am wondering about > using the high compression pistons (10:1). What plusses or minuses do you > engine gurus know about doing that? ie, added power?? reduced tbo???? >> Well, here comes another viewpoint ! Changing compression will definitely increase HP, all other factors being equal. It also will put more strain on your bottom end etc. because it creates more cylinder pressure (hence the higher HP). Is it a problem - NO !!! Lycoming did it on the factory engines, and Lord knows they are VERY mindful of liability issues, so they had to know it was not going to create any "monsters" in the form of lawsuits. My personal opinion, which is all that this diatribe is, is that if the extra 10 or so HP is important to you, by all means up that compression. If you are concerned about reliability, and engine life, do it anyway, it's not going to appreciably shorten engine life, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL.. But if you want to be ultra conservative, then stay with the lower comp. pistons. As always - my $.02 worth, for what it's worth PS - if the 10:1 pistons make your Lyc too "shakey" use a Chevy (please no flames I'm only joking) Regards Merle (3 power pulses per revolution instead of 2) Miller ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
> Can anyone tell me if it is advantageous to use the plexiglass drills > over the standard split-point when drilling the canopy to the slider > frame? It would seem to me that the plexi drills would not cut through > the steel very effectively. > > Thanks, > > Bob Japundza Bob, The plexi drills will self destruct in steel. Drill the plexi until it hits the steel. Shim the plexi with a piece of ply and finish the hole. Remove the shim and drill the steel. Enlarge the plexi hole with a plexi drill to a size determined by your particular plexi theology. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 tailwheel on, main gear happening ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rwbrv4 <Rwbrv4(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
Use the Plexi drills for the canopy and when you get to the steel frame use a regular drill. Put a small spacer between the canopy and the frame when you are drilling the plastic to keep the plexi drill from touching the metal. I bought my plexi drills from Aero Plastics, used them on my 4 and every windshield replacement that I do. Rick Bell A&P RV4 N83RB "Margaritaville Air Express" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: WorkBench
I have found the handiest thing is to buy those sturdy folding 2.5 x 6' tables at Costco for 35.00 each. They stay arrow straight, fold up when not in use, and can be used or easily sold after the project is over. About 5 of them works out right. They are somewhat low in height for some jobs, so I cut some 4 x 4 posts in 6 inch lengths, bored 1.5" holes about 1" deep both on the side of the post as well as the end. You need four per table. This allows you to put the proper height on table for the job at hand, adding 3.5", or 6". The holes are to keep the table from slipping off the blocks. This has worked great for me, and gives you a lot of flexibility. Just an idea to ponder. Von Alexander RV-8 #80544 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Drilling the elevator horns
Date: Feb 28, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com> Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:59 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Drilling the elevator horns > >> >>Listers, I'm ready to drill the elevator horns for >>the pushrod. How did you fellas approach that? >Jim, > >I've just completed that myself (sounds like we are working at the same >pace more or less) and here's how I did it: > >1. With one elevator off the airplane, mark and drill a #40 pilot hole in >the horn. Remount it to the HS. > >2. Find a scrap piece of material the correct thickness (5/8" in my case) >to fit snugly between the control horns. Drill a #40 pilot hole through >this material. > >3. Clamp both elevators in neutral position (since I have my elevators >overbalanced right now, I just clamped a scrap piece of AL across the top >of the counterweight arms that extended over the HS, preventing the >elevator from moving). > >4. Clamp the scrap piece of material between the horns with the #40 holes >aligned - use a drill blank or drill bit shaft for alignment. > >5. Now you can drill the #40 pilot hole in the opposite control horn in >perfect alignment with the first pilot hole. > >6. Now drill the entire assembly open to 3/16". > >Worked great for me - good luck. BTW, if you think it *looks* great, wait >until you get in it with the controls connected and wiggle the stick a >little; talk about smoooooth. :>) > >Bruce Stobbe >RV-6 >fwd fuselage misc > I am also performing that operation. When I align the counter weight arms, I find the elevators differ in angle by about 1.5 degrees per Smart Level. I can sight across and see a slight (maybe 1/16 - 1/8 inch) misalignment between the two planes. I don't think I have any twist in the elevators but they are not symmetrical. Do you guys note any similar effects? Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit (as yet untouched) Barrington, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: Scott Malone <scottm(at)pld.com>
Subject: elevator push tube
Could someone tell me if there are spacers required between the rod end of the pushtube and the elevator actuator arms? If not, what stiffens and aligns this area. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Tailwheel assembly weight
Just received my fuse kit (its great to be a builder again!). While inventorying and fondling new parts, came across the tailwheel mount/spring/fork, and man that little sucker is HEAVY. This would seem to be a place that would be perfect for a composite assembly. I would imagine that simply using a carbon fiber rod in place of that machined steel piece would take several pounds of tail weight out of the airplane. Has anyone done this? I'm not an M.E. or structural engineer so could be totally out to lunch on this; if so please show me the error of my ways. While flying competition RC sailplanes several years ago, we routinely replaced steel wing joiner rods with carbon fiber rods. Loads on the wing joiner are huge during a zoom winch launch and I've never had one fail. Mike Wills RV-4 (fuse) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com>
Subject: Re: Drilling the elevator horns
>I am also performing that operation. When I align the counter weight arms, >I find the elevators differ in angle by about 1.5 degrees per Smart Level. >I can sight across and see a slight (maybe 1/16 - 1/8 inch) misalignment >between the two planes. I don't think I have any twist in the elevators but >they are not symmetrical. >Do you guys note any similar effects? Dennis, As far as I can tell using just the old Mark IV eyeball, my elevators appear to be just about perfectly aligned if I sight along the trailing edges or the top skins - I must've lucked out for once. I doubt that such a small difference is anything to be too concerned about though. Bruce Stobbe RV-6 fwd fuselage just finished marathon deburring/priming session ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Elevator & Wing Jig
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Found something interesting today in the back of one of my customers pickup beds. It was the most perfect looking 2x6 I ever saw. As I looked at it, it turned out to be laminated together then machined to size. When the customer arrived to pick up vehicle I asked and found out it is material they use to make door & Window frames custom. Never twists or distorts. I'm beyond the jig part myself but thought it to be interesting enough to pass on. I wish I seen this stuff earlier on. You could actually have them groove it to connect pieces also to construct frame as you like it. Any dimensions. Regards----Mike Comeaux RV6A---QB--Still at it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DFaile <DFaile(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Tailwheel assembly weight
<< simply using a carbon fiber rod in place of that machined steel piece would take several pounds of tail weight out of the airplane. >> I almost put a composite tail wheel spring on my Christen Eagle II to save some weight, but I have now seen several FAA incident reports of them failing. Glad I have remained with what we know works (steel) and will do the same with my RV6. david faile, fairfield, ct cfii/a&p flight advisor/tech counselor christen eagle ii since '82 rv6 started ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: Determining Percent Engine Power
Date: Feb 28, 1998
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Determining Percent Engine Power > Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 2:33 PM > > > > The post suggests simply adding the first two digits of > >engine RPM (probably rounded to the nearest hundred) to the manifold > >pressure and if the sum equals 48 the engine is running at 75% power, > >if the sum is 45 the power setting is 65%, etc. While this method is > >simple to understand and use many of the "Local Experts" I have > >consulted disagree with this method entirely. Unfortunately the power > >charts for my Lyc 0360 are so small I can't read them even with a mag. > > > > Hi Chet. Your "local experts" need some continuing education. This > method has been around for a long time, and is accurate to within a > couple of percentage points. It doesn't work on turbocharged engines (at > least not in the same format) but it is very accurate on normally > aspirated powerplants. I was sceptical at first, but I've checked it > against many engine power charts and factory POH's, and it works very > well. I believe it loses some accuracy below 45%, but if you cruise in > that area you certainly don't need to worry about leaning. > > > Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 > ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ _____________________________________________________________________ Hello Chet, I was probley one of the advocates of the power determination formula that you were talking about. I learned it from the RVator years ago. Ed Bundy is entirely correct with what he wrote. You can take it to the bank. The reason I know is that at 65% power, my fuel burn is the same going to Calif. flying at 10500 ft. As it is flying to Fla. at 3000 ft. I keep it at the same power setting on a trip and always burn 8.2 gal. per hour,( Block to block ) If I weren't at the same power setting, I wouldn't have the same fuel burn. I don't know if it's exactly 75%=48, 65%=45, and 55%=42, but I bet it's just as close as any other free advice you get on the RVlist. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Jim Nolan N444JN Waiting for Sun-N-Fun ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
Date: Feb 28, 1998
---------- > Can anyone tell me if it is advantageous to use the plexiglass drills > over the standard split-point when drilling the canopy to the slider > frame? It would seem to me that the plexi drills would not cut through > the steel very effectively. > > Thanks, > > Bob Japundza > Network Consultant, MCSE > ImageMax, Inc. > bjapundza@iis-intellect.com Bob, I've been reading the messages about drilling Plexiglas and thought I'd add to your knowledge bank if you can believe it. When I was drilling my canopy for my RV4, a friend of mine in Indianapolis offered me some advice. Drill carefully, counter sink carefully and then take a torch to it. Yes you heard me right. Jim Winings from Indy apparently used to build motorcycle farings years ago. After he made the Plexiglas windshield he would torch the holes to take the stress out of it. It also gets rid of the drill and countersink marks in the hole. Not being one to pass up experience, I did this to my canopy after I drilled and countersunk the holes. Worked great, haven't had any trouble going on six years. By the way, you only leave the torch on the Plexiglas for a very, very short period of time. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator & Wing Jig
So what's this stuff called, and where do you get it? Is it expensive? Moe Colontonio RV-8 VS mcomeaux wrote: > > > Found something interesting today in the back of one of my customers > pickup beds. It was the most perfect looking 2x6 I ever saw. As I looked > at it, it turned out to be laminated together then machined to size. When > the customer arrived to pick up vehicle I asked and found out it is > material > they use to make door & Window frames custom. Never twists or distorts. > I'm beyond the jig part myself but thought it to be interesting enough to > pass > on. I wish I seen this stuff earlier on. You could actually have them > groove it > to connect pieces also to construct frame as you like it. Any dimensions. > > Regards----Mike Comeaux > RV6A---QB--Still at it. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Drill carefully, counter sink carefully and then take a > >torch to it. Yes you heard me right. > Believe it or not.. it's called "flaming" the edge e deck io540 and it has narrow shell bearings. These narrow bearings survive better in hi comp engines and so do the cases at a ratio of about 3 to 1.. Aerobatic pilots ( air show performers) spend 90+ % of their time flying directly over the runway while they hammer their motors, so that in the event of engine failure they have a great place to land not far away, they simply throw out their car keys and follow them down. The higher the comp ratio the greater the efficenty. As I see it there are two major negative concerns with high comp( and I am trying to decide between 10 or 11 to 1). 1 Increased engine wear due to pounding.. 2 Sudden engine failure due to detonation or knocking. how I am planing on trying to resolve these are as follows... 1. do not use full throttle at sea level, plan to fly high for full throttle, this will give you the same type of advantage that the turbo guys have... 2. DOn' t lug the motor down at low altitudes. 3. Do what you can to promote cold air induction. This greatly reduces the tendency to knock. 4. Consider octane boosters. And inversly this negates the use of auto gas.. 5. Some types of ceramic coatings are suppposed to deminish knocking, Iam looking into this. 6. Solid metal props are harder on high comp engines than composites.. In closing I understand that instock car racing on the tracks that require restrictor plates the cylinders that are furtherst from the carb they up the comp to close to 15 to 1 in order to get similar power from all cylinders. The tricky part about that is that you never want to lug the motor while exiting the pits because it will detonate and you will have to watch the rest of the race from the stands. I hope this helps.....Mark VN..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: WorkBench
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
>It has been all the workbench I need; many empennage spar >tasks >were done on the crossbeam of the jig, and the wing spars were done on >my living room floor. However, the more workbench you can get, the >easier things will be. Yep, you can never have too much workspace. I don't know if the emp kit is still shipped the same way, but when I got mine it was in a 4' x 2' wooden crate. After I took one sheet of plywood off and emptied the contents I ran a wooden beam across the center of the inside, then attached 4 legs to it. Turn it over, instant table. I then cut notches in the 4 corners of the removed plywood and attached it about halfway down the legs for a shelf. It isn't something that you'd want to build anything on, but it's great for holding tools, plans, parts, etc. Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ - _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343 <JDaniel343(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
<< (JimNolan) >> Drill carefully, counter sink carefully and then take a torch to it. Yes you heard me right. >> I've heard this before. I am sure VANs would not approve of this. What you are really doing is adding stress to the plexiglass by sealing the edge of the plexiglass. This causes internal pressure with no place to go. I'm not saying it might not work if did for 1 second or so but why do it at all. A scraper will do the same thing. Just my 2 cents John L. Danielson JLD AirCraft Tools ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: Bud Newhall <bud(at)softcom.net>
Subject: RV Fly-in
RV RENDEZVOUS May 17, 1998 Westover Field O7 Contact: Chris McKeage (209) 267-5090 13477 Buckeye Ct. Sutter Creek, CA 95685 Events: 20 Hot air balloons, Sat. and Sun. Airport Appreciation Day May 16 Camping available on field Bathrooms and Showers Shuttles to Sutter Creek Lunch available on field Lots of Flying Performance demos Formation Flying Maybe some aerobatics Plan to be here! Other Planes also welcome *Airport closed mornings 7:00 - 9:00 for balloon lift off. The RV gathering is Sunday. The Airport Appreciation Day is Saturday. If you want to see the balloon launch Sun. morning you should probably come sometime on Sat. Site approximately 40 miles SE of Sacramento near Jackson, CA __|__ __|__ ____(+)____ ____(+)____ ' ' ' ' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com>
Date: Feb 28, 1998
Subject: First Flight!!!
I am VERY happy to announce the first flight of RV-6A , #21611, N79WH. I took her off from Whiteman Airpark, Pacoima Calif., at approx. 6:30 this morning, (Sat.) WOW!!!!!!!!! The flight was flawless; the plane handled beautifully with NO surprises! I am breaking in a newly rebuilt 0-320, (160hp), so I keep it in the pattern at 75% power setting for about 20 minutes. All temps and pressures were normal and indicated airspeed was 160mph. After about three trips around the pattern,(they go by very quickly!!), I centered the stick, set my feet on the floor, and let go of the stick. She flew rock steady! No heavy wings, no yaw, just straight and true!!! What a blast!! Michael: You were right, I LOVE this airplane!! Thanks to 3.5 hours with Mike Seager a couple of weeks ago, the landing was great. I can't find the words to convey what it feels like to accomplish what I have been dreaming about for 16 years! (10 years waiting to get into the right financial\personal position and deciding on which model to build; and 6 years to build my bird.) I know it has been said before, but I will say it again to you guys: Keep at it, it CAN be done, and it's WORTH IT!! Walt. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: Elevator & Wing Jig
> >Found something interesting today in the back of one of my customers >pickup beds. It was the most perfect looking 2x6 I ever saw. As I looked >at it, it turned out to be laminated together then machined to size. When >the customer arrived to pick up vehicle I asked and found out it is >material >they use to make door & Window frames custom. Never twists or distorts. >I'm beyond the jig part myself but thought it to be interesting enough to >pass >on. I wish I seen this stuff earlier on. You could actually have them >groove it >to connect pieces also to construct frame as you like it. Any dimensions. > > >Regards----Mike Comeaux >RV6A---QB--Still at it. > Amazing what we find in customer's cars.... I distinctly remember finding a catalog of all the current airplane kits available in the front seat of a Geo Metro. I helped myself (not a habit of mine) due to overwhelming interest. I noticed that the kit manufacturer of some of the airplanes I had seen out at the airport was only 5 miles from my house! It was a small, but quite popular company called Van's Aircraft. My interest was peaked, but I had no money at the time. Some time later, when selling our house, I asked one prospective buyer where he worked. He said "Van's Aircraft". He bought the house, which provided money, and he gave me a video and an info packet, which provided a way to spend much of it. The rest is history and the wings are next! > > Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Finishing up empennage- WINGS ON THE WAY!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Royce Craven <roycec(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: rv4 cowl
Thanks Mark Royce > > >> >This hasn't come to be a problem, after 200 hrs on this bird, and 750 on the >one before it. > >RE camlocs: remember- they stay in the hole, and protrude a bit inside. This >is a problem when fitting the cowl, if camlocs are used at the front corners, >and behind the spinner. Across the top seems to be no problem, and they work >fine here. > >Check six! >Mark > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Questions
I have a few questions for those who have "been there done that". 1. Did you use gear leg stiffners? If so why? what material did you use, and how did you attach them? 2. Should I paint the cockpit rails? If any thing is going to get scratched and beat up it would be these, I could polished them! 3.I installed manual trim but think I will convert to electric. Could I attach the MAC servo to the front of the manuel cable under the throttle quad? Answers to any, or all of these questions would be of great help. Thanks Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee.FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
Subject: Re: WorkBench
The ideal height for a workbench is around 6" below your elbow so you might keep this in mind to save your posture and back. Your kitchen counter is designed for a person shorter than the average builder so make your workbench match your body!!! Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX RV-6A still working the cowl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Subject: Torque Values
Question in regards to torque values and nutplates. Example: Where do I reference the torque value on bolts being held by nutplates, such as the aileron belcrank mounting bolts going through the main spar into the tie-down bracket mounted nutplates? It seems like the nutplates are pretty tight and would give a false read on the actual torque being applied and the standard torque value for a given sized nut would have to be adjusted to compensate for the pressure from the nutplate? ??? Bill Pagan 8A Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: engine overhaul
Date: Mar 01, 1998
> >Here is some more to think about... >Aerobatic pilots ( air show performers) spend 90+ % of their time flying >As I see it there are two major negative concerns with high comp( and I am >trying to decide between 10 or 11 to 1). >6. Solid metal props are harder on high comp engines than composites.. Another thing the Acro Pilots do is Keep the RPM's up, If you are going hi-compression, don't over prop the engine, make sure it turns up real good. You can do this by running a low pitch fixed or a constant speed prop. And yes you can have a constant speed composite prop $$$$$$ I had and O-290-D2 with VO-435 jugs and 10.5 to 1 pistons. It turned a prince prop and I used a 3200 rpm redline. (That was at wide open throttle on the back side of a loop) it ran 28-2900 flat out straight and level at 2500ft. I would normally take off at 20" M.P. and then add MP as the airspeed/RPMS came up. I did some full power T/O's and never had a problem but I just wanted to be safe. I could be at 160+ mph at the end of the runway, then add power and pull up, WAY UP! It had an Ellison TBI that tended rich and I let it. It was a great running engine, never had a cylinder problem in 300 hrs. It was not very "nieghbor" friendly. People would say "who flies that little red airplane that sounds like it's pissed off all the time." ;-) I saw something on the list about puttiing -480 jugs on a 320..... The pink panther could have a "new attitude!" just dreaming.... Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid) www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rwbrv4 <Rwbrv4(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Subject: Re: Questions
#1 douglas fir stiffners epoxied to and wrapped with glass and epoxy to the gear legs. Strongly reccommend. #2 Paint them, yes they get scratched up but so will polished ones, and believe me they look worse scratched. #3 yes you can put a mac servo under the quadrant hooked to the existing control cable. I did and it works fine. I still have my manual trim lever and the mac has a disconnect feature so if it fails I still have manual trim. Rick Bell A&P RV4 N83RB "Margairitville Air Express" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: Questions
My friend used the standard 2 piece gear leg fairings. He injected the sound deadening foam from a can into them, them sealed both ends with an inch of epoxy. Very sturdy, and flexible. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Subject: Re: Questions
<< 1. Did you use gear leg stiffners? If so why? what material did you use, and how did you attach them? 2. Should I paint the cockpit rails? If any thing is going to get scratched and beat up it would be these, I could polished them! 3.I installed manual trim but think I will convert to electric. Could I attach the MAC servo to the front of the manuel cable under the throttle quad? >> Craig, Installing the stiffeners for the gear legs looked like a lot of work, so I decided to wait until after taxi testing and see if they were needed at that time. I was glad I did because it turns out they were not needed and I ended up saving myself alot of time. I have also flown an RV4 with the new long gear legs without the stiffners and it had no shimmy that I noticed. On the other side of the coin, I have recently been involved in replacing an engine mount and landing gear on an RV4 that had a bent gear. He had the stiffeners installed and also filled the gear leg fairing with expandable foam. The foam over time had evidently absorbed quiete a bit of water because once I got all this stuff stripped off of the gear legs they were highly pitted and corroded. If I were you I would wait and see. Your cockpit rails are anyones guess. My paint is 4 years old, the plane has had many people in and out and the rails are holding up ok. If you polish you will probably still be dealing with scratches. You can mount your servo for your electric trim up front. I have seen it done on at least 3 birds and the owners say it works just fine. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: First Flight
re: Walt - first flight in rv congratulations!!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com>
Subject: Re: Plexi drills
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Ask me about my $700.00 episode (including shipping) with a heat gun and my RV-4 canopy. DO NOT use heat unless you know what you are doing and are willing to take this risk! Canopy prices have doubled in the last 2 years. This is my story and I'm sticking to it. Jerry Isler RV-4 # 1070 Donalsonville (loooong way from Van's), Ga ---------- > From: JimNolan <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Plexi drills > Date: Saturday, February 28, 1998 7:56 PM > > When I was drilling my canopy for my RV4, a friend of mine in Indianapolis > offered me some advice. Drill carefully, counter sink carefully and then take a > torch to it. Yes you heard me right. > By the way, you only leave the torch on the Plexiglas for a very, very > short period of time. > That's my story and I'm sticking to it. > Jim Nolan > N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight!!!
Jon Elford wrote: > > >I am VERY happy to announce the first flight of RV-6A , #21611, N79WH. I took > > > Those stories are quite motivational to us short-timers... > Congrats from me too. I have been a lister on and off for a long time and agree on the importance of motivation. Let me add another corny comment. I have been flying since May (150 hours) and am now able to calm down about it; however yesterday while letting my hangar mate fly enroute back from PUB, I got to looking around the cockpit and had another one of those adrenelin rushes all over again. I just marvelled that all those parts I spent five and a half years putting together were really working in such harmony. Sooo in case you are wondering, the feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment lasts a long time . I can't imagine how all those show winners must feel! I can imagine how they fly as all Van's RV's fly wonderful. So even my first time amateur effort is a source of great pride, and many compliments. How could anyone afford not to own one?? That last comment was for RB 131 RB. 8-) D Walsh , RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: First Flight!!!
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Congratulations..!!! on your new beginning. Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx donspawn(at)juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Torque Values
With appologies to anyone running 2400 baud... >Question in regards to torque values and nutplates. Example: Where do I >reference the torque value on bolts being held by nutplates, such as the >aileron belcrank mounting bolts going through the main spar into the >tie-down bracket mounted nutplates? It seems like the nutplates are pretty >tight and would give a false read on the actual torque being applied and >the standard torque value for a given sized nut would have to be adjusted >to compensate for the pressure from the nutplate? ??? >Bill Pagan >8A Wings I was in a class some years ago that was totally devoted to proper torque in fastening systems. The instructor went to great pains all morning to show us how everyday we were violating some basic ground rules of proper use of threaded fasteners. By the end of the morning at the lunch break I think we'd all about decided that it was hopeless, and that we'd *NEVER* be able to successfully torque a bolt. The afternoon was spent teaching us the correct methods to avoid the common failures we had discussed all morning. In the exact situation you described, where a friction component was causing inaccurate torque readings, he suggested that we use a very accurate measurement of the existing drag on the fastener, and *ADD* that amount to the torque spec. for that particular system. Since nutplates have a higher friction when new than when re-used, I might suggest running the bolt into the nutplate once, and then removing and measuring the torque the second time, and then adding *THAT* amount to the value originally intended. (6 in.lb drag + 35 in lb torque = 41 in lb corrected installation torque) Measuring the torque on a new nutplate would give a higher reading which would then be incorrect for the re-installing of the bolt. Each time in the future you remove and replace the bolt(s) you will want to use the corrected torque rather than the standard torque, so make a note of the "corrected torque". Of course we all know that you only turn the nut and hold the bolt, right? In a perfect world, maybe. Anytime the bolt is turned and the nut held, the torque applied will be incorrect. The drag of the bolt in the hole will contaminate your reading, making it read "OK" when the actual torque is TOO LOW. What about tightening bolts onto soft materials (like Aluminum?), did you use washers to spread the load and prevent gauling? Did you use the correct thread lube? In some cases its none with the plain cad plated surfaces bearing on each other. In other cases it can be some pretty bizarre (and not commonly available Sunday morning at the airport) lubricants (We already have "Mouse Milk" can "Yak Butter" be far behind?). Any other substitution will give bad readings. What we are attempting to do is *NOT* measure torque, but rather to approximate the amount of preload or stretch we apply to the bolt. Torque is only a secondary means of reaching our goal. Any of the factors (like incorrect thread lube for the torque spec. given, incorrect technique on the part of the torque wrench operator, mis-calibrated tools, etc.) will give bad readings which means improperly loaded fasteners. For instance, did you know that your torque wrench freshly calibrated by someone traceable to the National Bureau of Standards is *NOT* accurate in the first 1/6th and last 1/6th of its range? That's right. A 100 ft lb torque wrench is accurate only over the middle 2/3 of its range. So it should not be used for anything *OUTSIDE of 16-84 ft lbs! Size the wrench to the job, and don't fool yourself into thinking that you can just figure the conversion from in lb to ft lb and set that 100 ft lb torque wrench to 3 foot pounds and have 36 inch pounds. No telling what you'll have that far away from the calibrated zone. Having said all that, many joints in aircraft are designed so that the primary load is SHEAR and not tension. In these applications it is only necessary to see to it that the bolt is still in place (nut has not come off) and the exact torque is of no other concern. It is difficult and awkward to measure small torques accurately. Most people over torque the airframe bolts on their planes. I used to employ a car "mechanic" (who learned his trade in the Navy) who used the "uniform torque standard" (he wrung the little ones off and left the big ones loose) and was relieved of his bolt tightening responsibilities. I never let him near my airplane. May this not grow into the "Torque Wars", is my humble prayer. If you disagree, tell me off line, and I'll try and dig out my SAE book on threaded fastening systems. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: WorkBench
armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com wrote: > I am finishing the structural modifications to my machine shop and plan > to order an empenage kit within the next two weeks. What size of > workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? See my Bunny's Guide http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunnytop.htm -- Part 0 includes pre-start activities like workspace. My first bench was 4'6" x 3'... the 3' depth was too great to be useful, so I reduced that to 96" x 31" (NB: *exactly* the same size as the wing box -- guess where the benchtop came from?) when I moved to my garage workshop. Generally, the longer the benchtop the better, up to about 11 feet... that'll allow you to put your wing spars on it. You'll want to recess a steel back-rivetting plate into the workbench for back-rivetting your control surfaces. Ideally, that'll be at least 4' from the end of the bench. You'll need to drill into the benchtop sometimes... alternatively, use a large sheet of plywood on top of the benchtop to drill into. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Q-build kit
Date: Mar 01, 1998
How do you figure which bag of rivets go where? Like for instance the floor skins call for a LP4-3 pop rivet--Look at the inventory list I already found (2) bags with the same rivets Q Bag-496 & Bag 482 Can anyone help? Mike Comeaux------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Subject: Re: WorkBench
<< I don't know if the emp kit is still shipped the same way, but when I got mine it was in a 4' x 2' wooden crate. >> Negative on that, my friends. Just got my empennage. It is in a corrugated box that measures about 55inches by 30inches, and not very thick. This stuff is now packed ingeniusly. Wish it were a wooden crate. Guess I'll have to build the table out of the 2x4s in the wall I am knocking out!! Jim Nice RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Questions
RV4131rb wrote: > > >> 1. Did you use gear leg stiffners? If so why? what material did you >> use, and how did you attach them? > Craig, > Installing the stiffeners for the gear legs looked like a lot of > work, so I decided to wait until after taxi testing and see if they were > needed at that time. I was glad I did because it turns out they were not > needed and I ended up saving myself alot of time. I have also flown an RV4 > with the new long gear legs without the stiffners and it had no shimmy that I > noticed. On the other side of the coin, I have recently been involved in > replacing an engine mount and landing gear on an RV4 that had a bent gear. He > had the stiffeners installed and also filled the gear leg fairing with > expandable foam. The foam over time had evidently absorbed quiete a bit of > water because once I got all this stuff stripped off of the gear legs they > were highly pitted and corroded. If I were you I would wait and see. > Your cockpit rails are anyones guess. My paint is 4 years old, the plane has > had many people in and out and the rails are holding up ok. If you polish you > will probably still be dealing with scratches. > You can mount your servo for your electric trim up front. I have seen it done > on at least 3 birds and the owners say it works just fine. > Ryan > Craig On the other side of the coin I flew my RV-6 for about 300 hrs without stiffeners and never was very happy with the ground handling. I removed the alum farings and replaced with a one piece fiberglass faring and put the stiffeners on at the same time and it made a world of difference in the way it handled on the ground. IMO I would install them. I to installed the alum by filling with foam and when they were removed found that the rear legs were rusted and pitted from the foam, there was a article in the RVator several years ago because of my gear legs rusting. When I replaced my farings I used a good grade of window molding trim and made them per Van's drawings. I also used a paint product called Hammerite to paint my gear legs which is a rust inhibitor, then epoxied the wood on and wrapped with fiberglass per instructions. Take a lot of time setting up the farings to get them straight, IMO this is one of the biggest problems with RV's not flying straight in the yaw axis. I also get twice as much time on my tires now with the stiffners. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Microllam (was elevator and wing jig)
> So what's this stuff called, and where do you get it? Is it expensive? I used a similar product called Microllam for the 14 foot 2x6 sides for my fuselage jig. They come in almost any dimension and are used for headers above doors and windows and in place of steel beams supporting houses. Darn straight and structurally stronger than a real 2x6. Mine were made by Trust-Joist Macmillan and were $1.93/foot (delivered). They come in any length so I ordered 2 @ 15' from the local lumber yard and they were delivered 2 days later. Total cost of my fuselage jig was 90 bucks If anyone is interested I will scan the page on this product and place it on my RV-6A web page. Gary Zilik RV-6A Ready to disassemble the fuselage skeleton for p-----g. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight!!!
Rvator97 wrote: > > I am VERY happy to announce the first flight of RV-6A , #21611, N79WH. I took > her off from Whiteman Airpark, Pacoima Calif., at approx. 6:30 this morning, > (Sat.) > WOW!!!!!!!!! The flight was flawless; the plane handled beautifully with NO > surprises! > > > Walt. > Hay Walt congratulations.....I love to see these first flight messages and they are even more special from people I have met through the years from the rv-list. Hope to see you somewhere in Oregon or CA this summer Be careful and have fun. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
>How do you figure which bag of rivets go where? Like for instance the >floor skins call for a LP4-3 pop rivet--Look at the inventory list I already >found (2) bags with the same rivets Q Bag-496 & Bag 482 Can anyone help? Hi Mike, don't sweat it. I think Van's puts the same parts in different bags just to keep in inventory for certain related areas straight on their end. If you have more than one bag with the same part in it, just put them all in the same parts drawer. Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ - _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Ray Lee <mesa(at)lonestarbbs.com>
Subject: Re: Bose Headset evaluation
rv-list(at)matronics.com wrote: > > > I cam into a litle extra cash, and bought a Bose headset. I went out and > flew with it and two other headsets this past weekend, and thought I would > pass along my observations. > > Headsets: > > 1. Bose > > 2. Dave Clark 10-20 with Oregon Aero ear seals.(not an active noise > cancelling headset) > > 3. Flightcom headset with aftermarket noise-cancelling installed. > > All three headsets were tried with a Flightcom intercom. The Bose and Dave > Clark were also tried with my PS Engineering PM2000 stereo intercom. > > In all cases, the Bose was noticably quieter than the other two headsets. > The absence of low frequency roar/rumble was dramatic when compared to the > Dave Clark. > > Surprisingly, when attached to the Flightcom intercom, the Bose's audio > volume was significantly lower than the other two headsets. > > When attached to the PM2000, the Bose sounded significantly better than the > other two headsets. This also surprised me. I have always felt that the > audio quality of my DC was great, but the Bose was significantly better. > (the CD in the stereo sounded a lot better too) > > just for some background info, the audio in my RV-6 consists of: > > King KLX-135A GPS/COM > Baupunkt FM/CD player > PS Engineering PM2000 Stereo interom. > > Best Regards, > Dave Barnhart > rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Dave- Hang in there on the Bose. I know what they cost, but why is it that everytime I hear someone compare headsets they always compare with Bose???? I have tried a few other sets and have found none that I felt were overall as good as Bose.I am considering the PM2000 also. I you have any regrets, please reply. I also have an Aeronca Chief that my wife and I flew to OSH last year. I felt so strong on the Bose that I set a motorcycle battery in the floor and carried my Bose headset with me. I have the battery pack but hate to carry a lot of extra batteries. Thanks for the info. Ray Lee Plainview, Texas Finishing the Wings RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: WorkBench
> armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com wrote: > > I am finishing the structural modifications to my machine shop and plan > > to order an empenage kit within the next two weeks. What size of > > workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? My first workshop (where I built the wings) was fairly small and could not stand a big workbench. I built an 8' x 2' bench that was very sturdy. I used the Avery C tool and riveted my spars on the bench.. Once I got my new shop built (called new house, with 24x36 heated shop) I nabbed two doors from our office building for the new workbenches. These are solid core (1 hr fire rated) and are 8'6" by 3'. These I put into an L shape in one corner and added my old bench to one end. The long lengths are real handy. The height of mine are 39.5". The 3 foot width is a little wide at times (hard to reach my pegboards) but are great when dimpling my skins. When I need to drill into the bench I cover it with 3/4" 2' x 8' particle board shelving. Every once in a while I sand the top of the particle board to deburr the holes that are left in it. My office building throws out the doors any time a suite is remodeled. Said it was cheaper to install new doors than try and reuse the old ones. Gary (lots of workbench) Zilik ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
mcomeaux wrote: > How do you figure which bag of rivets go where? Like for instance the floor > skins call for a LP4-3 pop rivet--Look at the inventory list I already found > (2) bags with the same rivets Q Bag-496 & Bag 482 Can anyone help? Mike, It does not matter which bag of LP4-3 rivets you use for any particular assembly calling for LP4-3 rivets. I bunch all my like rivets together, easier to find. I figure that when I run out of rivets, the plane will be done. Gary Zilik ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Subject: Re: Slider frame ?
> Per the plans, the outside surface of the plexiglas is about lined up in > the vertical plane with the outboard surface of the side bars of the slider > frame (the jog in the side skirt allows this). However, at its aft end, > the plexiglas inside surface rests on the outboard surface of the rear bows > of the slider frame. Due to this, the joint where the side rails meet the > rear bows should have a jog of one plexiglas thickness (the rear bow should > be inboard about 3/16" from the side rail). Mine were welded flush. I > plan to cut them and move them inboard the appropriate amount. Am I > missing something? What have others done? > I just went and looked at my (completed) canopy. I remember being worried about the very point you make. I ended up doing nothing about the problem, and that worked out fine... In other words, my canopy goes on the outside of the un-indented tube without any grinding or anything. All that really matters is that the skirt ultimately lines up with the outside edge of the fuselage, so one ends up squeezing the rear of the frame together a tiny bit more than would have been necessary if the frame tube had been inset per the plans. The plans discrepancy you point out (together with the out-of-order, internally inconsistent, inaccurate instructions) makes the slider canopy installation one of the most challenging parts of building an RV. It's rewarding when it all comes together, however. There's a great back issue of the Tri-State newsletter than has a well written set of instructions for the canopy. Well worth the $5.00 for the year's worth of back issues. Tim Lewis Cowling ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted Springfield VA http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a timrv6a(at)iname.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
I would just combine them, label them appropriately, and not worry about it. If it is the right rivet, who cares which bag it came from? If you run out of rivets, you are going to have to use rivets that came from neither bag. By the way, even with drilling out some rivets, I had leftovers from the empennage kit, and it looks like I will have leftovers from the wing kit. Vans Aircraft is generous in this regard. PatK - RV-6A mcomeaux wrote: > > How do you figure which bag of rivets go where? Like for instance the > floor > skins call for a LP4-3 pop rivet--Look at the inventory list I already > found > (2) bags with the same rivets Q Bag-496 & Bag 482 Can anyone help? > > Mike Comeaux------mcomeaux(at)cmc.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Subject: FAA inspection in NC
Can anyone in NC who has gotten their RV-6 or RV-4 inspected recently recommend a particular inspector or DAR in this area. I contacted the FAA last week about getting my RV-8 inspected and was not very happy with the employee that I spoke with. I got the impression that he was not very impressed with homebuilts. Without even seeing my plane, he informed me that he would assign me 40+ hours to fly off, even with a certified engine and prop. He was not very concerned about even giving me a date for the inspection. I only received 30 hours on the RV-4 that I built and it had an experimental prop. Unfortunately, that inspector has since been transfered to FL. Any leads will be appreciated. Thanks, Louis Smith RV-8 N801RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com
Date: Mar 01, 1998
Subject: Dimpling Q
May I dimple the .16 rudder skin with the plastic on or will it act like a spacer and make the rivets sit up slightly in the dimple? Trying to be careful with the rudder skin. Mark mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Dimpling Q
> May I dimple the .16 rudder skin with the plastic on or will it act like a spacer and make the rivets sit up slightly in the dimple? > >It is best to remove about 1 inch of the plastic right down the rivet line so as to work with the metal. Leave the rest of the plastic on to protect the skins untill you are ready to do your final finsh. Have fun building. Doug M. RV-6 working on tip up bubble ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: WorkBench
> armstpat(at)wellsfargo.com wrote: > > I am finishing the structural modifications to my machine shop and plan > > to order an empenage kit within the next two weeks. What size of > > workbench do I need, and what is the best top surface material to use? My main bench is 2' x 8' with an extra 2'4" x 8' particle board top screwed to it. The extra 4" is a lip on the front that is handy for clamping. I drill right into the top and will flip it over when it becomes too holely. The bench has a power strip attached to it for pluging stuff in like table band saw, table sander, and what ever. One end of the table has wheels. One end can be picked up like a wheel barrow and it can be moved around. There's storage area underneath. I also keep a card table handy that can be folded up after use and stored out of the way. I have a closet door on saw horses that is also handy. You can't have enough work space!! I have two steel shelving units that I keep the band saw, table sander, vice, bench grinder, and various other tools on. When I need a tool, I take it off the shelf, put on one of the work benches and use it there. When through, it goes back up on the steel shelf. Good luck on the project :-) Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a Emp in the jig, getting ready to drill skins. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Comm/Nav Radios
At 03:24 AM 2/21/98 UT, you wrote: > >Hey Bob Nuckolls: > >Caught your comment: "trying to hit a Flightwatch remote site from > 50 miles out with a Terra transmitter can stretch your uV/M > pretty thin" on the Windshield Antenna thread. > >Forgetting the windshield antenna thread for a moment, would you elaborate a >little more on your thoughts about Terra and some of the other manufacturers >of comm and nav radios. My finish kit should be here in a month and I'm >starting to think about what radio's/nav I'll be putting in. > > . . . . I've just never paid much attention to manufacturer's >reputation for quality & service, or any of the "specifications" I see on the >back of some of the sell sheets I've picked up here and there. Building a decent aircraft radio used to be a real bear. I have one of Ed King's first radios on my shelf of marvelous milestones in electronic history. This is the KY90, a vacuum tube, 90 channel radio. Looking at the packaging alone, it's a wonder that these things performed as well as they did . . . but 90 channels in one little box was pretty heady stuff back in 1960. I've got a Lear LTRA-6 transceiver setting right next to the KY-90. 10 channel crystal controlled transmitter, tunable almost calibrated receiver. The Lear offered an omni-scope adapter that used a real 3" oscilloscope CRT mounted in the panel to display omni steering data in illuminated green squiggles on the screen. These radios suffered greatly from environmental effects. Rotary switches to select banks of crystals got corroded, tubes got weak, tube sockets corroded, relays were open frame subject to dirt, moisture, etc. The Lear radio was 2 watt transmitter (closer to 1 watt in reality), the KY-90 was about a 5 watt radio as I recall. The radios were assembled one part at a time and by hand. Craftsmanship figured very strongly in the radio's quality. Nowadays, frequencies are synthesized in single chip devices, only one crystal in the system clocks all of the radio's frequncy needs. Receiver mixer, i.f. amp and detector stages that used to require 4-6 vacuum tubes and 10 watts is done on a single chip for 10 milliwatts. Most switching is solid state. >For example, some comm radios have 5 watts of transmitting power while others >have 8 or 10. I've assumed that more watts means more clarity over a longer >distance, but I haven't a clue as to whether or not this is discernable to an >average weekend driver or is even true. Is there a general rule of thumb on >transmission distance per watt? Which of the many specifications usually found >on manufacturer's brochure are worthwhile paying attention to and trying to >compare one unit to another? Given your experience and expertise, if you were >in the market for a new set of radios for a cross country airplane, what >criteria would you use to make your purchase decisions? Anything in particular >you would avoid? Any general thoughts on the subject would be appreciated as >usual. > >Paul Osterman >RV6A Fuse out of jig >Anderson, Ca > > > > > > Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Dimpling Q
Date: Mar 01, 1998
> >May I dimple the .16 rudder skin with the plastic on or will it act like a spacer and make the rivets sit up slightly in the dimple? > >Trying to be careful with the rudder skin. > >Mark >mgilbert(at)ix.netcom.com Mark, I found the thinner material (.020 and under) would take a dimple just fine with the plastic still in place....and it protects the sheet from scratches. The thicker sheet, such as .032 is a toss-up...sometimes it would work, other times, not quite deep enough, probably due to varying degrees of "enthusiasm" when pounding on the C-frame arbor! Best bet is to try both methods, and drop a rivet in the resultant dimples to see if there's a noticeable difference. Brian Denk -8 #379 closing left wing...finally! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Lasar ignition
> > > Does anyone know what the difference, if any, is between wiring the ignition >of an engine with regular mags and one with the Lasar electronic ignition >mags? Do you need a separate switch for the electronic part? How about for >starting? Is there an impulse coupling on one mag like the standard ones? > I'm pretty much in the dark on such subjects. Any enlightenment would be >appreciated. > Pat Allender > Iowa City > Panel stuff-4 Pat, The wiring is very easy and as per the installation instructions, one wire to the L contact on your key swich and one to the R. There is no impulse coupling so the R to G jumper gets removed. The mags are electronically retarded at start. This is why you can't hand prop a LASAR system with a dead battery. Cheers, Leo Davies ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Subject: Re: First Flight!!!
<< So even my first time amateur effort is a source of great pride, and many compliments. How could anyone afford not to own one?? That last comment was for RB 131 RB. >> Dennis, Good to see you pay attention! Now where's that picture? Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net>
Subject: Re: First Flight!!!
Rvator97 wrote: > > > > > I am VERY happy to announce the first flight of RV-6A , #21611, N79WH. I took > > her off from Whiteman Airpark, Pacoima Calif., at approx. 6:30 this morning, > > (Sat.) > > WOW!!!!!!!!! The flight was flawless; the plane handled beautifully with NO > > surprises! > > > > May this flight be the first chapter of your next book. Congratulations Fran Malczynski RV6 (Wings) Olcott, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Subject: Frey Jig for sale
Have Frey jig for RV-3 ,in like new condition...$5000 or Best Offer...Claudio. 1-800-582-3125 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: re: nav com radios . . .
This message was incomplete on first "SEND" . . . gotta be more careful with where I "click" things . . . At 03:24 AM 2/21/98 UT, you wrote: > >Hey Bob Nuckolls: > >Caught your comment: "trying to hit a Flightwatch remote site from > 50 miles out with a Terra transmitter can stretch your uV/M > pretty thin" on the Windshield Antenna thread. > >Forgetting the windshield antenna thread for a moment, would you elaborate a >little more on your thoughts about Terra and some of the other manufacturers >of comm and nav radios. My finish kit should be here in a month and I'm >starting to think about what radio's/nav I'll be putting in. > > . . . . I've just never paid much attention to manufacturer's >reputation for quality & service, or any of the "specifications" I see on the >back of some of the sell sheets I've picked up here and there. Building a decent aircraft radio used to be a real bear. I have one of Ed King's first radios on my shelf of marvelous milestones in electronic history. This is the KY90, a vacuum tube, 90 channel radio. Looking at the packaging alone, it's a wonder that these things performed as well as they did . . . but 90 channels in one little box was pretty heady stuff back in 1960. I've got a Lear LTRA-6 transceiver setting right next to the KY-90. 10 channel crystal controlled transmitter, tunable almost calibrated receiver. The Lear offered an omni-scope adapter that used a real 3" oscilloscope CRT mounted in the panel to display omni steering data in illuminated green squiggles on the screen. These radios suffered greatly from environmental effects. Rotary switches to select banks of crystals got corroded, tubes got weak, tube sockets corroded, relays were open frame subject to dirt, moisture, etc. The Lear radio was 2 watt transmitter (closer to 1 watt in reality), the KY-90 was about a 5 watt radio as I recall. The radios were assembled one part at a time and by hand. Craftsmanship figured very strongly in the radio's quality. Nowadays, frequencies are synthesized in single chip devices, only one crystal in the system clocks all of the radio's frequncy needs. Receiver mixer, i.f. amp and detector stages that used to require 4-6 vacuum tubes and 10 watts is done on a single chip for 10 milliwatts. Most switching is solid state. The technology to build very long lived radios is now off-the-shelf. Receiver sensitivity, bandwidth control and off frequency interference control used to be a problem with vacuum tubes and early solid state but those issues too have been pretty well run to ground. >For example, some comm radios have 5 watts of transmitting power while others >have 8 or 10. I've assumed that more watts means more clarity over a longer >distance, but I haven't a clue as to whether or not this is discernable to an >average weekend driver or is even true. Is there a general rule of thumb on >transmission distance per watt? The differences in received signal for 5 watts versus 10 watts on the ground is very tiny and only at extreme range for the system in use. When you're low and the remote site is a long way off is when you're most likely to have problems with facilities hearing you. As a general rule, you can talk to anything you can hear. Ground based transmitters tend to run in the 25-50 watt class and their receivers are usually pretty good too. I think I'd pick a radio on (1) warranty, (2) operational features and (3) size for the place I'd like to put it. Your priority might shuffle these around a bit but I think they're more important than poring over the "specs" Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: "David S. Hamilton" <hamlton(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: rv4 for sale
My friend, Russ Harlow, has a RV-4 empannage and wing kit for sale. The empannage is 75% complete and the work is quite good. His wing kit is still in the boxes and is a Benard Aircraft Components kit with the pre-assembled gold anodized wing spar. He wishes to sell both kits for only $4,000.00. He is located in Atlanta GA and can deliver kits to Sun-N-Fun. Call him direct at (770) 631-1480 Thanks, Dave Hamilton RV-8 80001! fuel tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Subject: Re: FEMALE BUILDERS
> You see, she has nothing against the project I am about to start, but if I can >"light the fire", then she will be a much more willing participant.(Bucking >Rivets) My main rivet bucker became DRIVER ONLY after her first driven rivet. (But, honey, it's not that easy to do and if you slip and bla bla bla....) She hasn't BUCKED a rivet since. And MAN, did she do nice work. Has a real touch on the rivet gun. I'm lucky: I have a willing participant and now, soon-to-be copilot. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: Don Champagne <Mongo7ix(at)netcom.com>
Subject: Re: rv4 cowl
>My vote is for screws and nut plates, holds the cowl tight and does not > > wear out and you do not burn your hands decowling a hot airplane. Replaced > > too many broken hinges. Mike > > > > > Royce, Camlocs would work ok except that they are more expensive and do not hold the cowl as tight. After 800 hrs of flying I never had a screw loosen up and > > Mike, Did you use countersunk or pan head screws? If countersunk what did you do if anything to reenforce the fiberglass? Thinking along these lines, Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: support (Matronics Technical Support 510-606-1001)
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Subject: Re: Advertising on the RV List...
-------------- > Hi Matt, > My name is John L. Danielson, JLD AirCraft Tools. I just started a small > mail order tool company and I did post an announcement on the RV list. > It was my understanding that you can advertise on the list. I will keep > any advertising short and to the point so that readers can e-mail me > personally, and I won't be making these posts very often ( once a month ). > Is there a problem with this? I received an e-mail back from someone I > thought would be interested in a Flyer I put out and he seemed somewhat > offended that I used the list for this purpose as he said "Its only for > builders questions and not for advertising". If this is true I will stop. > Please respond. I love the list no matter what. It has helped me countless > time get answere to questions I have had. > > Sincerely > John L. Danielson > JLD AirCraft Tools > 13020 Welcome Lane > Burnsville, MN 55337 > E-mail Jdaniel343(at)aol.com -------------- John, My official policy regarding commercial advertising on the List is this: "Occasional commercial advertising on the List is permissible as long as the items are related to aircraft construction at some level." I think that as long as the advertising doesn't start to feel like Spam, most Listers will welcome the information. Matt Dralle RV and Zenith List Admin. -- Technical Support | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 510-606-1001 Voice | 510-606-6281 FAX | support(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com W.W.W. | Specializing in Aircraft Avionics ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
Date: Mar 02, 1998
> From: mcomeaux <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> > To: RV-List > How do you figure which bag of rivets go where? Like for instance the > floor > skins call for a LP4-3 pop rivet--Look at the inventory list I already > found > (2) bags with the same rivets Q Bag-496 & Bag 482 Can anyone help? Mike, Some of the bags are specifically related to certain sub-assemblies, and some parts are bagged to be used wherever are called out for. For instance, I kept all my canopy hardware in the bags till needed, whereas I dumped bags containing like rivets/nuts/bolts into a common marked container. Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
I was ready to disassemble my fuselage skeleton and the nagging fit problem of the 607 and 608 bulkheads caused me to revisit this area. The Problem. On Dwg 24 the width of the f-608 bulkhead 5" from the bottom is stated to be 9.49" and 15 inches from the bottom should be 9.58" measured from the centerline of the bulkhead. Total width would then be 18.98 and 19.16 respectively. After riveting the bulkhead together using the tooling holes for alignment my bulkhead is a solid .250" wider than the plans call for. Revision 1 on dwg 24 says that .125" has been added to the dimensions on f-607 and 608 for a total width increase of .250". On the other hand, Frank J's supplement says that I must add .125 to each of the measurements due to a plans change. If I add the .125" to each measurement as Frank says, I end up with my fat bulkheads. I have drilled out the rivets holding the two halves together and laid out the correct dimensions on my workbench. I have drilled and clecoed the halves to the bench following the plans dimensions and before I cut off the overlap and make a splice plate I need to know what the width really should be. Gary Zilik Pausing, Thinking, Measuring, and asking questions before I really goof. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
<< I bunch all my like rivets together, easier to find. I figure that when I run out of rivets, the plane will be done. >> Actually you'll have quite a few rivets left over when the plane is done. So don't stay on the ground just because you haven't used all the rivets provided. Just make sure that there is the correct fastener in every hole and go flying. You'll have plenty of spares for the next project. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com>
Subject: Female Builders
All this talk of female builders, actually, wives helping out on the project, pretty much just went in one eye and out the other. My wife has never had any interest in airplanes. She's flown with me from time to time but would rather shop or something. This past weekend she shocked and amazed me. She actually helped me buck some rivets. Another builder told her how his wive helped him with all the rivets. This got my wife very curious about all this rivet stuff -- what's bucking, what's a rivet? I started riveting my leading edge skin this weekend and showed her the routine. This is a rivet, it goes here, this is a rivet gun, it goes here, this is a bucking bar, it goes here, and so forth. I drove a few rivets to show her what I was going to have to do and explained the areas that I would need help in. She wanted to buck a few rivets so I showed her again in more detail what to do. To my surprise she actually enjoyed it. She said it was actually rewarding to the results. The next step is to show her how to run the rivet gun (she'll like that better). This also got her more interested in the project. Now she has a stake in it because she helped build it. I also got to take my first ride in an RV. A very nice gentleman by the name of Randy Thorne gave me a ride in his RV-4. In short, just let me say this.... WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Enough said. Randy has a 180 motor with a constant speed prop and that little beast will really get out of Dodge when it wants to! We were up to 3000 feet in our practice area in, oh, a second or two. He let me fly it around for awhile. All I can say once again is.... WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We came back and landed. No big deal. The thing just went straight down the runway. My grin is only now subsiding. I am so motivated now! -- Scott Van Artsdalen RV-4, left wing in jig, making fuel tank -- Scott VanArtsdalen Network and System Administrator Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems Phone: 408-743-2224 Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776 Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
Date: Mar 02, 1998
> From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Actually you'll have quite a few rivets left over when the plane is done. > You'll have plenty of spares for the next project. Man, you guys are lucky....extra parts! I was repeatedly calling Van's for hardware not listed on the original inventory but discovered missing during building. Mind you Van's customer support was excellent as they would send the missing items without charge, but with the hassle factor on both ends I opted to purchase one of those aircraft hardware kits. Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
> I was ready to disassemble my fuselage skeleton and the nagging fit > problem of the 607 and 608 bulkheads caused me to revisit this area. [snip!] Gary, Ahh, another poor soul gets bit by this one. Read on -- I posted this back in July, and went and got it out of the archve. Randall ---- This is an issue that I came up against, and although the answer is still somewhat ambiguous, I went through an interesting process, and found out some things about this very issue that you probably want to consider. On the bulkhead fabrication drawing (my old one, I didn't get a new one either), at some point there was a revision to widen the F-607 and F-608 bulkheads by 1/8" per side, or 1/4" overall. Local lore had it that this was done on purpose "so the skins would lie better". When I got my fuselage all jigged up I found that there was a bulge in the longerons because of this widening. I decided to call Vans and confirm that this was indeed supposed to be there, since nothing was said about it in the manual, and in fact the longeron curve profile on dwg #22 specifically shows the longeron being "straight aft of this point". Tom and Bill both told me no, the longerons are supposed to be straight, the revision was because previously the bulkheads were too narrow. Not being satisfied with this, I did the geometry and found that mathematically, using the dimensions prior to the revision, and at the station lines called out, the bulkhead sides would all have formed a straight line. The extra 1/8" per side added in the revision would ADD a bulge and you'd have to move the station lines to make them straight again. I pointed this out to Vans (they really hate it when you do that) but they were still not convinced, and told me if I had to change the station lines to make them straight, then do so. This seemed REALLY wierd to me -- if I had to move the station lines BECAUSE of the revision, then why the revision in the first place, and why not move the station lines at the same time as the widening of the bulkheads? As a reality check I looked at four other RV-6s under construction in the area, and ALL of them had this bulge. So I decided to track down the "lore" that said they were SUPPOSED to bulge I finally found that it originally came from Art Chard, who as we all know used to build prototypes for Vans. Art told me that yes, a side effect of the way the tailcone skins are rolled is that there is a slight curve to the skins perpindicular to the bottom "curl", and that the bulge was added so as to offset the tendency of the skins to oil-can. He also said that aerodynamically, an 1/8" bulge should be insignificant. So according to Art Chard, there is SUPPOSED to be a 1/8" bulge per side between the F-606 and F-610. I went back to Vans with this, and they finally conceded that there may have been a revision such as this that no one remembered the reason for, but they also said that they went out and laid a straightedge up against the factory demonstrators, which were all built by Art Chard, and they couldn't detect any bulge Go figure. So I left the bulge in. I did end up widening the next aft bukhead by 1/16" (F-610) to remove a slight "fishtail" flairing at that point. Now when you sight down it you can see a slight curve, but otherwise it's undetectable. My skins lie nice and smooth, and there appears to be no oil canning. Bottom line is, I really don't know if it helped or not, but at least it didn't hurt anything. Randall Henderson, RV-6 http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Subject: VS407 Rib Center
Just completed inventory of my 6A Empennage Kit. I noticed that the VS407 is extremely wavy on the large flat portion, with a bit of oil can. Is this part a reject, or is it supposed to be the way it is? If everyone else noticed the same condition and used the part with no problems, I guess I'll use it as is. If not, I may have to talk to VANS about replacing it. What do you think, fellas? Jim Nice RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: First Flight!!!
Walt, Congratulations!!! What a thrill that must be. I can't wait. I'll have to stop by the hanger and get some more details. Best of luck on the flight testing. Laird Owens RV-6 - turtledeck stuff West Hills, CA _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Sat, Feb 28, 1998 10:25 PM
Subject: First Flight!!!
I am VERY happy to announce the first flight of RV-6A , #21611, N79WH. I took her off from Whiteman Airpark, Pacoima Calif., at approx. 6:30 this morning, (Sat.) WOW!!!!!!!!! The flight was flawless; the plane handled beautifully with NO surprises! I am breaking in a newly rebuilt 0-320, (160hp), so I keep it in the pattern at 75% power setting for about 20 minutes. All temps and pressures were normal and indicated airspeed was 160mph. After about three trips around the pattern,(they go by very quickly!!), I centered the stick, set my feet on the floor, and let go of the stick. She flew rock steady! No heavy wings, no yaw, just straight and true!!! What a blast!! Michael: You were right, I LOVE this airplane!! Thanks to 3.5 hours with Mike Seager a couple of weeks ago, the landing was great. I can't find the words to convey what it feels like to accomplish what I have been dreaming about for 16 years! (10 years waiting to get into the right financial\personal position and deciding on which model to build; and 6 years to build my bird.) I know it has been said before, but I will say it again to you guys: Keep at it, it CAN be done, and it's WORTH IT!! Walt. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Foam board in tips
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Just curious. Have many or any of you glued a piece of 1/8" foam sheet to the inner top surface of the tips ? Some people have done this to avoid the waviness that appears in the top surface of the tips after a while. I thought about doing this but did not because I have looked at a number of RVs that have been flying a long time and their tips look good to me. I realize that from time to time, Van has gone to a different supplier of sub assemblies because of quality and/or cost. Could be that this waviness occurred in older kits, but the more recent product is better that ever. Any comments ?...............Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Gascolator Location
Okay you RV-6 builder/Flyers, where in the heck did you put the gascolator? One of the drawings in the Construction manual shows it hanging in space about six inches off the firewall about even with the gear leg. How did you mount yours? Is it mounted to the firewall with some sort of brackets? I'd appreciate any help. The instructions leave a lot to be desired. Thanks. Randy Pflanzer RV-6 N417G Firewall Forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: engine overhaul
Mark says he will go easy on his 11:1 compression ratio engine by: >1. do not use full throttle at sea level, plan to fly high for full throttle, this will give you the same type of advantage that the turbo guys have... I am uncertain about this but I doubt it will help. The engine's compression ratio is the ratio between the size of the combustion space with the piston at bottom dead center and top dead center. A high compression piston makes both spaces smaller by the same amount. These parameters are unaffected by engine speed. Actually, the peak pressure developed inside the chamber might be greater at lower engine speeds as there is more time to fill the space with fresh air-fuel mixture, but this depends on many other factors. The idea that extra power be used only at high altitude is correct. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: VS407 Rib Center
I just started my VS, and noticed that a few of my ribs were twisted. The material is pretty easy to work with, and I took most of the twist out by hand. The spars and skin should keep the rest plenty straight. I didn't get anything that looked obviously defective though, and if it's real bad, I would just send it back. Moe Colontonio RV-8 VS JNice51355 wrote: > > > Just completed inventory of my 6A Empennage Kit. I noticed that the VS407 > is extremely wavy on the large flat portion, with a bit of oil can. Is this > part > a reject, or is it supposed to be the way it is? If everyone else noticed the > same condition and used the part with no problems, I guess I'll use it as is. > If not, I may have to talk to VANS about replacing it. What do you think, > fellas? > Jim Nice > RV6A > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
Date: Mar 02, 1998
If I remember correctly, I followed the plans and moved the bulkheads slightly for or aft to make the skin lie smooth. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont Drilling the second F-670 to the frame -----Original Message----- I was ready to disassemble my fuselage skeleton and the nagging fit problem of the 607 and 608 bulkheads caused me to revisit this area. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: re: nav com radios . . .
Speaking of radios.... I ordered the Icom A-200 panel mount for its size and 2 year warranty. I was a bit dismayed when I read the warranty paper work, after I received the radio and it said the warranty was only 90 days if installed by other than a licensed F.A.A. radio shop. The radio seems to be a very good one, but, they should tell people this before they order one. I don't know if other manufactures are like this, but, it would figure heavily in my decision when buying one, since I like to install my radios myself. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "The French's" <french@mag-net.com>
Subject: RV-6A for sale
Date: Mar 02, 1998
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003F_01BD460A.B9E5BBE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BD460A.B9E5BBE0 Listers I have put my RV-6A up for sale as I cannot afford to have two = airplanes. I'm building a 6A quickbuild. Th ad I'm running is as follows. RV-6A TTSN 150 hrs. Yellow/blue trim. Lyc. 0-360-A4M 1200 SMO. CHT, EGT, = lightweight starter, 35 amp alt. Comm TKM MX-11. AT-150 xpdr. Electronic = engine monitor. Microencoder (A/S, ALT, VSI, true A/S dens alt, OAT, Alt = deviation alarm) ACK ELT . Garmin 195 GPS. Strobe, nav, tail=20 light combo on wingtips. Landing light. Flightcomm Int. 2 cabin heat=20 inlets c/w defrost, fully insulated and upholstered. Cruise 175 mph on 8 = GPH. 9/10.=20 $60,000 US. Call days: 250-962-3671. evenings/weekends 250-563-4337 or = email french@mag-net.com I'm a little prejudiced, but I'm told this is a 9 out of ten A/C Ted French Prince Georrge BC RV-6A 170 hrs ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BD460A.B9E5BBE0 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Listers
 
I have put my RV-6A up for sale as I = cannot=20 afford to have two airplanes. I'm building a 6A quickbuild.
 
Th ad I'm running is as = follows.
 
RV-6A TTSN 150 hrs. Yellow/blue = trim. Lyc.=20 0-360-A4M 1200 SMO. CHT, EGT,
lightweight starter, 35 amp alt. Comm = TKM=20 MX-11. AT-150 xpdr. Electronic
engine monitor. Microencoder (A/S, = ALT, VSI,=20 true A/S dens alt, OAT, Alt
deviation alarm) ACK ELT . Garmin 195 = GPS.=20 Strobe, nav, tail
light combo on wingtips. Landing light. Flightcomm = Int. 2=20 cabin heat
inlets c/w defrost, fully insulated and upholstered. = Cruise 175=20 mph on 8 GPH. 9/10.
$60,000 US. Call days: 250-962-3671. = evenings/weekends=20 250-563-4337 or email
french@mag-net.com">french@mag-net.com
 
I'm a little prejudiced, but I'm = told this is a=20 9 out of ten A/C
 
Ted French
Prince Georrge BC
 
RV-6A  170 = hrs
------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BD460A.B9E5BBE0-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Deal Fair" <dealfair(at)bcni.net>
Subject: nav com radios.....
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Hi Listers, This is in response to Paul Osterman III where he recently stated he is "starting to think about what radio's/nav ewuipment ----etc." Well Paul, two years and 430 hours ago I decided to re-panel my RV-4. I really wrestled with what radios to use as I wanted a full gyro panel and there just isn't much room in a -4. My top priority for choice of radio finally came to SIZE. I settled on a 760 channel com, 200 channel nav unit sold exclusively by Wag-Aero called an "ICS PLUS". The radio has some very interesting features, e.g., self-contained battery in case of electrical failure, 40 channel Glideslope/Localizer with indicators, 20 channel memory each on nav/com with flip-flop button, built-in intercom and so on. I was, however, very apprehensive to shell out $1,450.00 for a radio manufactured by some outfit I never heard of. Wag-Aero has a good reputation so I bought it. I am really pleased with the unit. If (when) this one goes out, I will replace it with another one and repair this for a backup. I fly all over the mid and southwest region of the country and have had no difficulties talking to/with ATC. A Narco transponder fits perfectly right under the radio. I believe my panel really looks good and is very functional. My only gripe is with the LCD display. I always wear sunglasses and there are times I have difficulty reading the display. I have to remove my glasses to see the darn thing. (Age wouldn't be a factor, would it???) Other than that, I have to recommend it based on my experience. Regards, Deal Fair (N34CZ) George West, Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
Randy J. Pflanzer wrote: > > Okay you RV-6 builder/Flyers, where in the heck did you > put the gascolator? I'm going to use 2 fuel filters (CarQuest # 86033) in place of a gascolator. Will install one in the line from each tank prior to the fuel selector valve. That way, if one should get plugged, I can switch to the opposite tank for fuel. I don't believe gascolators do very much filtering and certainly aren't in the low point on a RV-6 for water collection. Another builder has used this design for several hours without problems. Just my $.02 worth. Warren Bishop RV-6 prepping interior for paint ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RICK" <rhard(at)dtc.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6 Empennage and Wing for sale
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Steve, Sorry to see you selling but I'm interested in your kit. Please call me at 316-776-0392 after 5:00 pm. We can discuss price and shipping. Also my email address is rhard(at)dtc.net. Please reply either way. Thanks Rick Harding ---------- > From: Steve Brown <smbrown(at)cisco.com> > To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com' > Subject: RV-List: RV-6 Empennage and Wing for sale > Date: Friday, February 20, 1998 8:52 AM > > > Before I could afford to build I wondered how one could let a project go > without attention for a long period of time... well now unfortunately I do :-( > The realities of work and family have caught up with me. > > I have a -6 empennage kit with a complete skeleton, started skinning but not > attached and no work done on the vstab; prior to prepunch. This might be good > for someone that wants to practice before starting theirs. > > Also have a complete, untouched wing, prepunched, w/Phlogiston spars; the spars > were shipped to me mistakenly but I liked what I saw so kept them... I did pay > for them :-) > > I'm feeling ambivalent about this, I hope one day to build it but if someone > makes a reasonable offer in the $3k range, and would give it a good home, I'd > consider it. > > -- > Steve Brown > Cisco Systems > Phoenix. AZ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 02, 1998
Subject: Re: Fluid Dynamic, by Hoerner
I have found a location (Amazon .com) to buy the above book, but I find that Hoerner has written two books, Fluid Dynamic Lift and Fluid Dynamic Drag. For those of you in the know, what is the difference in the books? At $95 each, I don't want to buy both now, which would be more appropriate for building? Thanks Bob Busick 'RV-6 Fremont CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: VS407 Rib Center
MoeJoe wrote: > > > I just started my VS, and noticed that a few of my ribs were twisted. > The material is pretty easy to work with, and I took most of the twist > out by hand. The spars and skin should keep the rest plenty straight. I > didn't get anything that looked obviously defective though, and if it's > real bad, I would just send it back. Moe - Remember that the VS ribs are built with a curve in the sides. When forming a rib with curved sides there will always be a bit of bending and possible waviness due to the stretch on the material in the flange. Figure out your rivet spacing and flute between the rivets until the web lays flat and the flange is at right angles to the web. Van covers this procedure in the front of the manual but it is easy to overlook when you see the super parts in the new kits. Some of us older builders really had to do some major straightening:-) Keep building - Your bird WILL fly. Doug Murray RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
Stephen J. Soule wrote: > > If I remember correctly, I followed the plans and moved the bulkheads > slightly for or aft to make the skin lie smooth. > Rather than reposition the table cross pieces to hold the bulkheads, I just made shims to move the bulkheads and got a real straight side to the fuselage. If I were to do it again I would not rivet the bulkheads together until I had mounted them into the jig between the longerons and figured out the heights and widths - THEN I would drill and rivet the bulkheads together. I feel that it would be much quicker than redrilling to size and/ or moving jig cross pieces and/ or bulkheads. It is a good thing that I had blank fuselage skins to drill. I wonder how this headscratcher will be solved when Vans starts prepunching the fuselage kits? Doug Murray RV-6 Will I ever get the Canopy to fit well? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: VS407 Rib Center
> >Just completed inventory of my 6A Empennage Kit. I noticed that the VS407 >is extremely wavy on the large flat portion, with a bit of oil can. Is this >part >a reject, or is it supposed to be the way it is? If everyone else noticed the >same condition and used the part with no problems, I guess I'll use it as is. >If not, I may have to talk to VANS about replacing it. What do you think, >fellas? >Jim Nice >RV6A > Jim, Have you fluted it yet? Fluting works wonders!! If it's really bad, send it back. They're real good about that kind of stuff. > > Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Finishing up empennage- WINGS ON THE WAY!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
I just learned that my two resident RV-6 buddies, who each have Van's Isspro oil pressure sending units on their one year old aircraft, are occasionallly getting indicator fluctuations...real attention getters; ie. drop in oil pressure or fluctuations. No pattern apparently, not every flight. Is there any history of similar problems out there with any of you folks operating the Isspro electric oil pressure system from Van's? Thank You! Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, wiring and doing cowling. Seattle area ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Trim Tab Hinge
Date: Mar 03, 1998
If I recall right, you cut the pin about inch short and drill the hinges at each end for safety wire. Look at the aileron hinges on a Cessna 150 next time you are at the airport. Steve Soule -----Original Message----- ..... What holds the elevator trim tab hinge pin in place? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
Date: Mar 03, 1998
>Listers, > >Stupid question of the day..... What holds the elevator trim tab hinge pin >in place? >Jon Elford Jon, I've seen them secured, and not secured...with evidently perfectly safe results either way. I secured the inboard end by bending the extra 1/2" of the hinge wire forward along the rib/skin seam, and then safety wired it with a loop of wire through a small diameter hole. (Actually, it's not done yet, but will be done after painting). I've also seen more elaborate means such as riveting a single hinge eyelet to the trim tab spar and securing the extra hinge wire length in it. Either technique achieves the same result. Yet again, you get to spend some time making a decision...which, for me takes more time than actually DOING something! Enjoy. Brian Denk -8 #379 finally closing left wing http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
<< Okay you RV-6 builder/Flyers, where in the heck did you put the gascolator? >> I saw something at the airport last night that I haven't seen in a while. A friend's RV-6A had a slight fuel odor, and upon inspection, they found a leaking gascloator. The thing appaerntly wouldn't drain completely, and always held a small amout of water. This caused corrosion in the metal can, and a small leak followed. This was an AC brand aircraft gascolator, so the quality should not be doubted. I would suggest that any builders using such an item should check the thing more than once a year, and dump out any water that may be laying in the bottom. A sort of wedge built up of proseal might direct any water towards the drain (which appears to be above the bottom of the can). Another reason to... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
>Okay you RV-6 builder/Flyers, where in the heck did you >put the gascolator? Randy, I installed my gascolator on the right side of the fuselage, in the wing root area. In this location, it stays cool, doesn't interfere with the engine mount, doesn't catch the cowl when the cowl is removed and keeps all those fittings away from the electrical equipment and exhaust found in the engine compartment. I am very pleased with this installation and wouldn't hesitate to put it here. There has been discussions on this list about the merits of filters vs. gascolators. I will not start that one again :) Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Randy; I put my gascolator on the work bench. It works fine there! I did have it on a bracket I built, about 3/4 inch from the lower left firewall. After what I think was fuel vapor problems, I put a small auto inline filter between ea tank and the fuel selector. No more vapor problems and I feel better about fuel stoppage and better fuel filtration. Do you need a well aged on the shelf gascolator? John C Darby Jr. RV6 N61764 sold Stephenville TX thinking about, would there now be waviness outlined along the reinforcement strips? Some things you just have to live with--like our wives getting older. I feel sure that which ever way you go, it will be fine. And you will then spend the rest of your life wondering what it would be like if you had done it the other way. Such is life! John C Darby Jr.. RV6 N61764 sold Stephenville TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
Date: Mar 03, 1998
If I remember correctly, I followed the plans and moved the bulkheads slightly for or aft to make the skin lie smooth. I, too, am currently fitting these bulkheads. I have not riveted them together, so I can adjust the width to fit the longerons. This seems to work, except: I checked the alignment of the top and bottom of each bulkhead with the F-606 and F-610 and cannot make them align. At this point, I quit for the evening and will be addressing the misalignment again tonight. Any suggestions??? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
>Stupid question of the day..... What holds the elevator trim tab hinge pin >in place? I really haven't researched this much, but got to wondering as I >was finishing up the drilling on my left elevator tonight. Plans don't >offer much, haven't consulted manual yet. Maybe it just sits loose in there >and while flying you keep an eye on it. When you see it working it's way >out you tap it back in with the rudder....... Yeah sure!! :-) > >Jon Elford Jon, I cut my hinge about 1/2" longer than needed, bent it forward (over 90 deg. bend) drilled a small hole in the elevator and used safety wire to retain it. Easy, cheap, light and effective. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 1998
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
> Some of the bags are specifically related to certain sub-assemblies, and > some parts are bagged to be used wherever are called out for. For > instance, I kept all my canopy hardware in the bags till needed, whereas I > dumped bags containing like rivets/nuts/bolts into a common marked > container. Note: When I started on my project, I was advised to dump all the parts bags into individual plastic bins, not leave everything in the paper bags. I'm told they can corrode if you leave them in those paper bags for a lengthy period. I don't know if this is due to the small amount of corrosive ingredients still in the paper or if it has to do with trapping moisture or something. This may not be a real problem -- I don't even remember who told me to do this. And it's probably not a problem if you're moving faster on your kit than I am on mine. But if you're a slowboy like me, it might be worth it to move them to a storage bin array. They're only a few bucks from Menards and they look neat hanging on your wall. "All my little parts are over in those bins there." Or, I could be totally whacked, and you should ignore me. Whatever. -Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BELTED AIR <BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
We have had the same problem, once just after breaking out on top with no where to go but down all other gages normal water temp and oil temp, so we pressed on. When arriving over an airport it returned to normal. The sender was replaced after checking against a mechanical which read more accurate, then another failure with another new sender. We are changing to mech. this week its too unnerving. BAP RV-6A Chevy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
<< What holds the elevator trim tab hinge pin in place? >> I drilled it and put a cotter pin in it. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SinedAngel <SinedAngel(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
> >Stupid question of the day..... What holds the elevator trim tab hinge pin in place? >Jon Elford >> ... I have about 350 hours on my RV... and it just stays there.... I always check it during preflight and every 20-30 hours or so it seems to work "out" about a 1/4 inch, so I just push it back in.... it's real easy to spot during pre- flight.... thought about doing one of all those "fixes" I've seen but it hardly seems worth the effort. ..Dennis .. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
<< I don't believe gascolators do very much filtering and certainly aren't in the low point on a RV-6 for water collection.>> I certainly don't want to be the one to start the gascolator wars, but I keep hearing this argument used to justify leaving out the gascolator. In order to be effective the gascolator doesn't need to be the lowest point in the system. It merely needs to be between the fuel supply and the carburetor. It is a physical fact that the fuel pickup (finger screen) is the lowest point in the system on most low winged a/c with wing tanks. Any water that you don't drain out in the morning preflight, or that gets in during refueling at that out-of-the-way airport will settle to the bottom of the tanks. In order for significant water to not cause a problem, it needs a place to get sidelined somewhere on its trip from the fuel pickup to the carburetor. Any place along this way will do, but in order to deal with both tanks using a single gascolator, it needs to be after the multiple paths become a single line. The water will settle again in the gascolator since it is just a gravity water separator and allow you to safely drain it off before your next flight. It can't deal with a lot of water since it is small, but it is better than many filters which are easily blocked by water. You should mock up a test system with all of the chosen components, add some water and see if it works as you desire. << Another builder has used this design for several hours without problems. >> And most would operate for years due to the better water traps in modern gas delivery systems, but be careful, there might be other sources of significant water (rain getting thru leaky fuel cap center bolts). -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Frey Jig for sale--correction
Frey Jig for RV-3. Correct price is $500 or BO...Claudio..1-908-351-5800 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: My kit is here!
I am picking up my RV-6A QB kit from the local dock today...it is about time! Is there anything that I should be aware of while unpacking, organizing, inventoring, etc? thanks.. Paul Besing RV-6A QB (197AB) Its here! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com>
Subject: Re: rv4 cowl
Don Champagne wrote: > > > >My vote is for screws and nut plates, holds the cowl tight and does not > > > wear out and you do not burn your hands decowling a hot airplane. Replaced > > > too many broken hinges. Mike > > > > > > > Royce, Camlocs would work ok except that they are more expensive and do not hold the cowl as tight. After 800 hrs of flying I never had a screw loosen up and > > > > > > Mike, > Did you use countersunk or pan head screws? If countersunk what did you do if anything to reenforce the > fiberglass? > > Thinking along these lines, > Don > Don, I used #8 countersunk machine screws with countersunk flat washers with no reinforcing on the fiberglass works great. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
>What holds the elevator trim tab hinge pin in place? Hey, Jon: As there are many different ways of doing things, I was going to do the safety wire/cotter pin thing but found hinge pin has pretty small diameter. I made three 90 degree bends in mine: at the inner end of the hinge and at the rear "spar" skin of the elevator. This forms a square loop with the end of the hinge pin now resting against the spar skin, about in the middle of the skin. Measure 1/2 inch or so along this and mark it for the 3rd bend. Drill a hole in the skin at the mark and bend another 90 angle to fit the end of the pin into that hole, facing forward. The spring tension of the pin keeps it in the hole and prevents the pin from sliding out. Clear as mud? > Maybe it just sits loose in there and while flying you keep an eye on it. >When you see it working it's way out you tap it back in with the rudder....... That was pretty funny!! Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: engine overhaul
Date: Mar 03, 1998
charset="us-ascii" > >Mark says he will go easy on his 11:1 compression ratio engine by: > >>1. do not use full throttle at sea level, plan to fly high for full throttle, >this will give you the same type of advantage that the turbo guys have... > >I am uncertain about this but I doubt it will help. The engine's compression >ratio is the ratio between the size of the combustion space with the piston at >bottom dead center and top dead center. A high compression piston makes both >spaces smaller by the same amount. These parameters are unaffected by engine >speed. Actually, the peak pressure developed inside the chamber might be >greater at lower engine speeds as there is more time to fill the space with >fresh air-fuel mixture, but this depends on many other factors. Hal your assumption would be correct if you used a constant speed prop and limited rpms, but with a fixed pitch you limit the amount of air/fuel that can get in the combustion chamber with the throttle plate. Hence the BMEP (Brake Mean Effective Pressure) is considerably lower at reduced power settings, not reduced rpms. The reduced rpms is a result of less engine power available on a fixed pitch setup. For a given M.P. BMEP will be fairly constant with some increase from reducing RPMs due to the factor of fill time you discuss. The big gotcha here that no one has brought up is the type of fuel delivery system you are discussing. If you use a fuel injection system, the last several degrees of throttle deflection do little to the throttle plate M.P.) and do a lot to the fuel delivery rate. This enrichment at full throttle is there to provide additional cooling at takeoff power. Some pressure carbs have automatic enrichment at full throttle, however I don't think any of the one we find on small Lycomings do. If you defeat this feature by advancing the throttle to nearly max MP and stopping before the fuel flow starts to rise you can have trouble. If you are using dramatically reduced power settings this should not be a problem. My point is this reduced power takeoffs will lower BMEP, however, care need to be taken to insure that the fuel delivery system does not lean the mixture too far during this type of operation. There could be throttle positions that could get you in trouble, depending on your fuel delivery system and prop setup. In the big radials, where we take off at 44" or better of manifold pressure. Detonation is a huge concern. These engines have low (6.0 range) compression but the Blowers pack so much in to them that they barely survive on 100LL fuel. When it goes away we are in big trouble. I have detonation curves for R-2600's if anyone is interested, sorry none for a Lycoming. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com http://www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Q-build kit
Date: Mar 03, 1998
> From: Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> > When I started on my project, I was advised to dump all the parts bags > into individual plastic bins, not leave everything in the paper bags. > > Or, I could be totally whacked, and you should ignore me. Whatever. Joe, You are correct...I think the build instructions had a blurb on parts storage recommending not leaving items in paper bags. I got somewhat anal; while doing my bag inventories I transferred the parts to plastic ziploc bags, sucked the remaining air out and sealed, and placed each ziploc back into its bag. Rob (RV-6Q - not happy - engine with bad crankshaft sitting in corner - so much for all my touting getting good mid-time lycomings for $6K - strapping myself down for an rv-list flogging). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
<< Any water that you don't drain out in the morning preflight, or that gets in during refueling at that out-of-the-way airport will settle to the bottom of the tanks. In order for significant water to not cause a problem, it needs a place to get sidelined somewhere on its trip from the fuel pickup to the carburetor. Any place along this way will do, but in order to deal with both tanks using a single gascolator, it needs to be after the multiple paths become a single line. The water will settle again in the gascolator since it is just a gravity water separator and allow you to safely drain it off before your next flight. It can't deal with a lot of water since it is small, but it is better than many filters which are easily blocked by water. >> GV, All excellent points, here's one more. The screen in the gascolator is very fine and will trap just about anything but water. It is also much easier to take appart the gascolator and clean the screen then it is to change filters usually located in some out of the way place. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
I use to be in the "don't put a gascolator in the aircraft" camp but time (and hopefully some experience) has changed my outlook somewhat. Gary V. is correct in that the gascolator doesn't need to be the lowest point in the system it just needs to be between the fuel supply and the carburetor. As fuel passes over the trap in the gascolator, anything heavier than the fuel (water, proseal and slosh - our biggest concerns) will fall into the "can". While the gascolator allows these contaminants to "fall away" from the fuel, these same contaminants will clog a fuel filter and can potentially disrupt the supply of fuel. I performed the annual on my RV last month and did find that the bottom of the gascolator coated with some red stuff that I assume is slosh. There was also an aluminum chip in there as well from when I modified my tank for a return line. I flushed it well but this one chip was left behind. Luckily the gascolator found it for me. Yes its tractor techbut it works. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Foam board in tips
I ordered the "upgrade" tips from the manufacturer- these came with the foam already in 'em. They have stayed v smooth, but you can see where the foam is. That polyester has a mind of its own. To put the foam in after the tip is already constructed might work if done correctly- it certainly can't hurt! Epoxy resin would help further. BTW- the foam is 1/8", with one layer over it- and I'd guess the cloth to be 8 or 9 oz. The foam extends from trailing edge to nose. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: My kit is here!
Date: Mar 03, 1998
It's pretty straight forward. You'll find almost everything in the fuse box. Make sure you have plenty of hammers and pry-bars. Try to keep two or more pieces of 4 by 8 ply in good condition to use as your airfoil templates. I have also reused most of the 2 by 4's. You will find a (2 by 6???) piece of presswood. Don't throw that away because you can use it for the parts you have to form. A cordless drill with a phillips attachment is necessary to get the wings out of the hold-downs. I picked mine up in a 20' UHaul and unpacked it on the truck. The crates can be moved but you will have to get 5-6 of your weight lifting buddies to help you. As I recall the big crate weights ~1000 lbs or so. Other than that I can't think of anything. Drop me a line if you have further questions. Get ready to pull out a hell of a lot of staples. > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Besing [SMTP:rv8er(at)doitnow.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 3:07 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: My kit is here! > > > I am picking up my RV-6A QB kit from the local dock today...it is > about time! > > Is there anything that I should be aware of while unpacking, > organizing, > inventoring, etc? > > thanks.. > > Paul Besing > RV-6A QB (197AB) > Its here! > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
<< Any water that you don't drain out in the morning preflight, or that gets in during refueling at that out-of-the-way airport will settle to the bottom of the tanks. snip many filters which are easily blocked by water. >> GV, All excellent points, here's one more. The screen in the gascolator is very fine and will trap just about anything but water. It is also much easier to take appart the gascolator and clean the screen then it is to change filters usually located in some out of the way place. Ryan >> OK, OK! But, if you run mogas, heat absorbsion is something you REALLY have to watch. The gascolator fwd of the firewall is a large heatsoak I choose to not carry around. One aborted takeoff will convince you of this, esp if the runway is fairly short. Maybe a two-column report with plus and minus for both would be a good idea? Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
Someone who may or may not have known what he was talking about told me that using a restrictor in the fitting can cause "surging" oil pressure readings. Can anyone confirm or disprove this? Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
In an RVator a while back there was a writeup about someone who's gascolator rusted through, and it was found to be a result of the drain not being at the lowest spot in the bowl, so there was always some water sitting in the bottom. The article mentioned that on some gascolators the weld at the drain pipe formed a "dam" between the low spot in the bowl and the drain pipe. The lesson is, when installing your gascolator you should check to make sure there's no "dam" and also make sure the bowl is oriented such that the drain is at the low spot when on the ground. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com>
Subject: My kit is here!
It's pretty straight forward. You'll find almost everything in the fuse box. Make sure you have plenty of hammers and pry-bars. Try to keep two or more pieces of 4 by 8 ply in good condition to use as your airfoil templates. Okay, here's a bonehead builder question... What do you use the airfoil templates for? Another builder gave me his. I'm not sure what they are for! -- Scott VanArtsdalen Network and System Administrator Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems Phone: 408-743-2224 Pager: 1-800-225-0256 Pin: 635776 Email: scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: Bad Crank
Date: Mar 03, 1998
OK Rob: WE need to hear the story. I am hunting the same thing. IF I don't find one quick I am thinking about trying to install my Cont E225-8. Don Jordan~6A wings~Arlington,Tx donspawn(at)juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Newmgo <Newmgo(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Filters
The gascolator is also the last stop for trapping any water going to your engine, besides it's filtering function. Since I'm "re-engining" from an O-320 to an IO-360 in my -4, I'm trying to find a high pressure one that can handle the fuel injection boost pump pressure (30 psi). Any help on that? Filters, properly selected and installed, provide a measure of safety, but in colder climes any water going through them could freeze and then, guess what? Also, if you have an older RV, as I do, and you sloshed your tanks after the Proseal and haven't since removed it, filters I imagine would plug up faster from the slosh debris than a gascolator. And some of the slosh DOES detach and then, guess what? A friend's -3 had it plug up the boost pump on climb out. Fortunately he had enough skill and altitude to make it back to the runway. With my tanks off now and opened up, I've found some of those pieces more than big enough to plug up a filter, the fuel tank pick up, or even a pump orifice as my friend found. I lucked out. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
Date: Mar 03, 1998
> From: donspawn(at)juno.com > OK Rob: > WE need to hear the story. I am hunting the same thing. IF I don't find > one quick I am thinking about trying to install my Cont E225-8. At this point the crank is pitted per Lycoming SB505B, it may or may not be serviceable depending on how deep the pitting is and how much extra material I have over the minimum allowable I.D., and I'm still trying to work things out with the seller. As soon as the entire story plays itself out, I intend on posting the "engine" experience to the list. Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
Randall, Your not talking about an electric gauge here are you? Its true that with a mechanical gauge, a restriction wil tend to damp fluctuations. I had a mechanical Auto Meter gauge on one of my hot rods that was plumbed with a fairly large piece of Aeroquip hose (dont remember the size but guess the i.d. was about 3/16"). If the engine misfired at idle, the misfire would register on the oil pressure gauge! Pretty unnerving until I got used to it. Mike Wills RV-4 (fuse) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >Someone who may or may not have known what he was talking >about told me that using a restrictor in the fitting can >cause "surging" oil pressure readings. Can anyone confirm >or disprove this? > >Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rwbrv4 <Rwbrv4(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
You should use a restrictor fitting so if you have a pressure line failure all your oil is not dumped overboard. All certified aircraft using mechanical guages have restrictor fittings that I have ever worked on. Having air in the line will cause inaccurate readings. Both Cessna and Piper talk about this in some of their literature. I just had a friend put a factory overhauled engine in his certified a/c and had sluggish pressure readings and low pressure at idle. My test guage showed everything to be ok. I bled the air out of the line at the guage and presto it was fixed. Rick Bell, Jr. A&P RV4 N83RB "Margaritaville Air Express" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Proseal Question
Date: Mar 03, 1998
How long does it take for this stuff to cure? Tommy W. (First time proseal user) RV-6A Tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: My kit is here!
scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com wrote: > Try to keep > two or more pieces of 4 by 8 ply in good condition to use as your > airfoil templates. > > Okay, here's a bonehead builder question... No such thing... > What do you use the airfoil templates for? Ensuring that the ailerons and flaps continue the correct airfoil line of the wing. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: rv4 for sale
Could you please leave me a number where I could reach this man. 61 more days Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Proseal Question
Dave According to Georges Tapes & My RV Mentor's let it sit untill you can just see a finger print then let it sit one more day, thats what I got out of all the information. I have both wings to about the same state & going to start Pro-Sealing the tanks by the week end. So good luck BSivori(at)AOL.COM N929RV ( Reserved ) Wings in Jigs Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
Mlfred wrote: > I would suggest that any builders using such an item > should check the thing more than once a year, and dump out any water that may > be laying in the bottom. I have always disassembled the gascolator at every oil change (25 hrs on the J-3). My veteran A&P friend showed me a way to safety wire the gascolator bail so it can't vibrate off and consequently jettison the bowl. The newbie A&P's at the FBO had not seen that trick. My anal contribution for the month... Sam Buchanan (getting ready for fuel tanks!) sbuc(at)traveller.com "The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Filters
Newmgo wrote: > > The gascolator is also the last stop for trapping any water going to your > engine, besides it's filtering function. Since I'm "re-engining" from an > O-320 to an IO-360 in my -4, I'm trying to find a high pressure one that can > handle the fuel injection boost pump pressure (30 psi). Any help on that? > Try the Andair Gascolator (as well as the marvelous Andair Fuel Selector Valves) which were written up in the RV-Ator a while back. I have both going into my -4 and they are truly works of art. The gascolator is a high pressure type and you will be most impressed with it as well as the wonderful fuel valve. You're gonna wanna put 'em on the mantle, sigh, and just admire the workmanship. Get them at Chief or Aircraft Spruce. Frank, The Smiling Grandpa > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
I have a great question if anyone would care to respond. An A&P send out your cam & crank & case ( Lyc LIO360 ) Counter Rotating right engine for a 1972 Seneca. You are told that the Cam Failed & the Crank Failed - now your engine price just went up $1000.00 for the Cam & $3600.00 for the Crank Total $4600.00 more. How do you know Your Cam & Crank failed - How can you be sure your not getting the Cam & Crank where the sun don't shine. The Seneca is my first plane I have owned it for the past year & the right engine was just about TBO 2000 Hrs and had an oil pump AD so I elected to overhaul the engine New Cylinders etc. Thanks BSivori(at)AOL.COM N929RV ( Reserved ) RV6 Wings in Jigs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
> Randall, > Your not talking about an electric gauge here are you? Its true that with a > mechanical gauge, a restriction wil tend to damp fluctuations. [snip] Yes actually my "source" was talking about an electrical gauge (1/4" aeroquip hose from engine to remote sender, about 2' worth. Then wires to the gauge.) Randall > > > > >Someone who may or may not have known what he was talking > >about told me that using a restrictor in the fitting can > >cause "surging" oil pressure readings. Can anyone confirm > >or disprove this? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
> > > >Stupid question of the day..... What holds the elevator trim tab hinge > pin in place? > >Jon Elford >> >... >I have about 350 hours on my RV... and it just stays there.... I always check >it during preflight and every 20-30 hours or so it seems to work "out" about a >1/4 inch, so I just push it back in.... it's real easy to spot during pre- >flight.... thought about doing one of all those "fixes" I've seen but it >hardly seems worth the effort. >..Dennis How hard is the hinge pin? Could you cut the hinge pin a little long, crimp one end, and then bend the other end under? Just an idea.... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
> You should use a restrictor fitting so if you have a pressure line failure all > your oil is not dumped overboard. All certified aircraft using mechanical > guages have restrictor fittings that I have ever worked on. Having air in the > line will cause inaccurate readings. Both Cessna and Piper talk about this in > some of their literature. I just had a friend put a factory overhauled engine > in his certified a/c and had sluggish pressure readings and low pressure at > idle. My test guage showed everything to be ok. I bled the air out of the > line at the guage and presto it was fixed. > Rick Bell, Jr. A&P RV4 N83RB "Margaritaville Air Express" Ok sounds good. But mine an electric gauge, wired to a sender on the firewall, which is connected to the engine with about 2' of 1/4" aeroquip hose. No bleeder valve but I suppose it'd be possible to add a 'T' fitting and a bleeder up near the sender. Is this something you think should be done, or is there a method for bleeding the line without a bleeder fitting? This and any other info be greatly appreciated as I'm getting ready to install both the FP and OP senders. And yes I know not to hang the senders off the engine! Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: VS407 Rib Center
Date: Mar 03, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: Douglas G. Murray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 1:21 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: VS407 Rib Center > >MoeJoe wrote: >> >> >> I just started my VS, and noticed that a few of my ribs were twisted. >> The material is pretty easy to work with, and I took most of the twist >> out by hand. The spars and skin should keep the rest plenty straight. I >> didn't get anything that looked obviously defective though, and if it's >> real bad, I would just send it back. > > >Moe - Remember that the VS ribs are built with a curve in the sides. When forming a rib with curved sides >there will always be a bit of bending and possible waviness due to the stretch on the material in the flange. >Figure out your rivet spacing and flute between the rivets until the web lays flat and the flange is at right >angles to the web. Van covers this procedure in the front of the manual but it is easy to overlook when you >see the super parts in the new kits. Some of us older builders really had to do some major straightening:-) > >Keep building - Your bird WILL fly. > >Doug Murray RV-6 > A couple of additional points to Doug' s answer: 1) The right angle between web and flange is obtained with the seaming pliers. 2) It is not always possible to obtain both a flat web and a straight flange (and hence a straight rivet line); in this case go for the straight flange. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Barrington, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
<< OK, OK! But, if you run mogas, heat absorbsion is something you REALLY have to watch. The gascolator fwd of the firewall is a large heatsoak I choose to not carry around. One aborted takeoff will convince you of this, esp if the runway is fairly short. Maybe a two-column report with plus and minus for both would be a good idea? >> Mark is correct, in that this can be a major minus for the gascolator. Blowing some cooling air on it helps when the engine is running but not when it is heat soaking on the ramp while you have lunch. My four dot tempil label indicates that the gascolator shroud on my plane has reached 170F at some time during the initial 6.4 hrs of operation. Ambient temps in SF Bay area have reached about 65F during this period, so if there is a delta T of 105F that tracks regardless of ambient temperature, fuel might start boiling around 107F (MSL) ramp temp. This is certainly a concern and I will continue monitoring the situation as the warmer weather slithers in. Do we know anyone able to make replacement machined thick walled Delrin bowls to replace our zinc plated steel ones? This would minimize the heat soak (insulative) and the probable bowl corrosion due to trapped water mentioned previously. We had a result similar to the bowl corrosion Mark described here in CA recently. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Good Crank
I purchased a run-out first run O-320 recently and wanted to share my experiences to date. The engine cost $5,700, delivered. The crank and crankcase were guaranteed rebuildable (with the exclusion of S B 505). The relatively new (early '80's) engine has no damage history, the cylinders have never been off, and spent its previous life on the front end of a CAP C-172, so should have gotten reasonably good maintenance. Also, it has only been out of service and pickled for about a year. I suspect I paid a slight premium (maybe $500?) for this engine, but since it had what I considered a good pedigree, I rolled the dice. As I disassembled the engine, I was amazed at how easily it came apart, and at how little wear was evident on the wearable parts. The local engine guru's pronounced the crankcase good, and I sent the crank off to have it yellow tagged. The word from the shop was "You have a good crank". I asked what recertifying the "good crank" was going to cost. The answer: approximately $500. This includes coating the inside of the crank to take care of SB505, turning the main's to .03 (or is it .003?) undersize, checking the dimenstions, cad plating the flange, and modifying the gear on the rear of the crank. These repairs and costs were in line with what I expected. I will send the cam, rods, cylinders, etc. off for recertification soon, but I don't forsee any major problems at this time. I expect this engine will fly again for a total of $9,000 - $10,000 invested. Just wanted to share my engine experience. Kyle Boatright -6 before the Millenium ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Kent Ashton <kjashton(at)vnet.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
I have an oil pressure sender/hobbs meter switch/manifold assembly from a Cessna or some such airplane with a very small (1/16", ANXX-2) fitting on the end if it. I've heard this is a good thing because if the sender or hobbs meter switch ever self-destruct, it will take a while to pump your oil through this restriction and it may give you time to put down somewhere. Point is, the certified airplanes use a relatively small sized restriction for this type of thing. Also had a bad sender which gave a high pressure reading. I fiddled with that one a long time after a mechanical gauge seemed to confirm high oil pressure but I finally put on a new sender and it has worked fine thereafter. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
Randall Henderson wrote: > > > In an RVator a while back there was a writeup about someone who's > gascolator rusted through, and it was found to be a result of the drain > not being at the lowest spot in the bowl, so there was always some water > sitting in the bottom. The article mentioned that on some gascolators > the weld at the drain pipe formed a "dam" between the low spot in the > bowl and the drain pipe. The lesson is, when installing your gascolator > you should check to make sure there's no "dam" and also make sure the > bowl is oriented such that the drain is at the low spot when on the > ground. Gascolators are as any other device or piece of equipment thats installed in an aircraft,is only as good as the maintenance it needs. It's primaqrry purpose is to filter and trap. Water,dirt or anything else that may show up in the system. WE ALL KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE. If it was designed for MOGAS then I'm sure we would have seen them in autos long ago. I've yet to walk by an aircraft using MOGAS and not smelled old gas fumes. As did all the aircraft I flew that used it. Poor gascolator doesn't get the attention its due till some problem occurs and then it's its fault. You must open it up at least once a year and preferrably twice to clean and inspect it to assure its well being. And even though its not in a convienient place sometime due drain it as you do the te almighty wing tank sumps and your gascolator will smile on you and serve its true purpose. Many thousand hours using gascolators and not one engine failure. Don RV6QB..A&P ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
>You should use a restrictor fitting so if you have a pressure line failure all >your oil is not dumped overboard. Absolutely. I have a Rochester gauge with an electronic sender, restrictor and have rock-steady pressure readings. Some folks might think with a restrictor the pressure readings would be slow to register: not so. Restrictor: an AN rivet pressed in and drilled with the smallest drill bit you have. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Formative Flying nce), and yes it is all of these things and YOU built it. But there is more: what it will do to you as a pilot, if you will let it. It can make you a better pilot. Or not. With this airplane, you have at your disposal an instrument for improving your skills as a pilot; but it may not work that way for you. Van has given us this great airplane that does so many things so well, and we have the opportuntiy to bring our skills up to the level IT requires, to use this airplane to its greatest advantage. How? Several ways. First: get some instruction. This airplane is going to teach you a lot, but it helps to have a guiding hand, sometimes. Doesn't have to be in an RV initally, if one isn't around. You have to maintain your skills. The majority of accidents happen to Experimental aircraft in the first 2 hours. Yikes. After that, we are pretty even with General Aviation. So: before you go out and get to know your new airplane, know thyself first. Polish your skills. Aerobatic training builds confidence. Lets you SEE other than straight and level. Find someone with a good reputation (and airplane) and go turn things upsidedown. And get some RV time SOMEWHERE. Second: fly your airplane. Sound obvious? May not be. Are you going to fly the 25 or 40 hours of the test flights of your airplane or is someone else going to help you "fly them off"? I am beginning to wonder if 40 hours is going to be enough. Yes, I will have ample opportunity to do that over the years I fly this airplane, but these early hours are the "formative hours": when you get to know your airplane and it gets to know you. This is when you find out the little (and sometimes not so little) things, the nuances. Early dating, not yet at the heavy petting stage. You do that by flying your airplane. A lot. Doing different things, that you may not feel like doing after the time is flown off. Not just jetting crosscountry. Think about some of the basic things you did to learn to fly in the first place: stalls, slow flight, steep turns. Remember turns on and around a point? Are you kidding? Isn't that too basic? What does that do? Gets your head out of the airplane, for one thing. Lets you practice flying the airplane with a lot of other things going on in and outside the airplane; gets you to FEEL and HEAR what the airplane is telling you about what is happening. Touch and goes. Yup. I like stop and goes better. Lets you reconfigure the airplane for takeoff. So you don't take off with the trim in landing position. Do you have to do all this? No. You may be perfectly content to just have a superficial relationship with your airplane. And land it all over the runway. And make sloppy turns in slowflight in the pattern. All relationships have areas you may never know anything about. But if one of those areas that isn't too pleasant suddenly arises and you have had a glimpse of it already, it may not surprise you. Go up some time at altitude and configure your airplane for landing: slow, flaps down, descending turn. Assume you are overshooting the centerline and you (inadvertently) mash on the rudder to swing the tail around. Know what happens? Your lower wing can stall, because now it is now flying slower as you push the upper wing around. And if you pull back on the stick because the ground is RIGHT THERE, bad things will happen. BUT: you already tried that at altitude and you know what to do. For one thing, don't horse the tail around with the rudder. You knew THAT because you have kept current. This airplane can make you become a better pilot, which will allow you to take full advantage of all this surperior aircraft has to offer. Did I mention you are really going to like this airplane? Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Formative Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: My kit is here!
VanArtsdalen, Scott wrote: > Okay, here's a bonehead builder question... What do you use the airfoil > templates for? Another builder gave me his. I'm not sure what they are > for! > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen Scott As someone else pointed out the airfoil templates can help you line up the flaps and Ailerons but their main purpose is to help you set the wing incidence once the wings are mounted to the fuselage. There is a drawing that explains how to cut them so that when they are on the wings you can put a level on the top side to the right set on both wings before drilling the rear wings spar bolt. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com t my own personal pref. (I am talking about elec. senders) -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
>I just learned that my two resident RV-6 buddies, who each have Van's >Isspro oil pressure sending units on their one year old aircraft, are >occasionallly getting indicator fluctuations...real attention getters; >ie. drop in oil pressure or fluctuations. No pattern apparently, not >every flight. >Is there any history of similar problems out there with any of you >folks operating the Isspro electric oil pressure system from Van's? Hi Ron. I'm using the same system and it's been rock solid for 180 hours. Since it's intermittent, I would pull the oil lines and check for "flaps" of interior rubber causing the fluctuations. These flaps are caused by installation of the hose ends cutting a piece of the interior and allowing it to block / unblock the oil flow. Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ - _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
Date: Mar 03, 1998
>You are told that the Cam Failed & the Crank Failed - Are they cracked or overworn? Ask for them back & if not cracked measure their your parts. otherwise find a mechanic that you can trust. Don Jordan~~ 6A-wings~~ Arlington,Tx donspawn(at)juno.com _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] o.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
> I was ready to disassemble my fuselage skeleton and the nagging fit > problem of the 607 and 608 bulkheads caused me to revisit this area. I modified the width of several bulkheads, and, as I recall, unrevised the revision which widened the two bulkheads. Don't rivet the bulkheads together until after you have taped on several strings to determine width. Don't forget to use strings on the bulkheads that hang below the jig. I also recall that height-wise the bulkheads seemed ok, it was the width that needed work. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net>
Subject: Paint (NOT primer) Question
My favorite auto paint store carries both Imron and Durathane. Are they essentially the same, or does one go on easier than the other? Mike Robbins RV-8 #591 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: My kit is here!
The airfoil templates are used as a pattern, drawn onto a piece of plywood and cut out, then placed over the wing and used to perfectly align the ailerons to the wing. Then the flaps are aligned with the ailerons. I am at that point now on my RV-8. Von Alexander #80544 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Filters
<< The gascolator is also the last stop for trapping any water going to your engine, besides it's filtering function. Since I'm "re-engining" from an O-320 to an IO-360 in my -4, I'm trying to find a high pressure one that can handle the fuel injection boost pump pressure (30 psi). Any help on that? >> Yes, try the Andair gascolator. It's pricey but is probably worth it. They are listed in the RV Builders' Yeller Pages on the net. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Listers, In the past months that I've been in this group, I've seen this topic discussed a couple of times. Each time, the virtues of gascolators vs fuel filters are discussed. Has anyone ever looked at the Facet boost pump that sits on the firewall that can opened and checked each year at annual? I have one on my Cheetah and really like it. I can twist the bottom off and have a fine screen inside that catches the stuff that can come through the system. It also separates the fuel from the water, like the gascolator. Because gascolators are prone to leaks, and the fact that I'm not too pleased with the idea of having the pump in the cockpit for some unknown reason, I'm planning on using the little Facet like the one in my Cheetah. As for water, I very seldom see any in my Cheetah's tanks; and, it has flush fuel caps much like the ones on the RV. I never see dirt in the fuel, which is generally autogas. Of course, I know that some of that dirt is much to small to see and would most likely not be stopped by the fuel pump or gascolator. :-) Jim Sears in KY RV-6A #22220 (Still installing the tail components and fighting the cold) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Good Crank
Kyle, By the time I sent out the cylinders for work - shiping etc, the cost of new ones was not that much diffrent, chek it out. Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net>
rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
Alex Peterson wrote: > I modified the width of several bulkheads, and, as I recall, > unrevised the revision which widened the two bulkheads. Don't > rivet the bulkheads together until after you have taped on several > strings to determine width. Don't forget to use strings on the > bulkheads that hang below the jig. I also recall that height-wise > the bulkheads seemed ok, it was the width that > needed work. How did the skin fit? Have you progressed past the riveting point? One of the earlier replies mentioned that the bulge was there to accomodate a side-effect of the creation method for that skin, which was a slight bulge. We're at the point of lining up the aft bulkeads, and I've got F-607 and F-608 clamped about 1/4" thinner than the tooling holes would indicate. This allows for straight longerons and J stringers. If anyone can confirm that the skin will fit without waves (because of the bulge created during it's manufacture) then I'm inclined to keep it straight. -- -------- Rob Rimbold rimbold(at)ntr.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: Proseal Question
Date: Mar 04, 1998
> How long does it take for this stuff to cure? I prosealed the tanks in late december 1997. It took several days until it wasn't sticky and several weeks until it was solid. Some professionals I have talked to have said that it will continue to cure over a long time and that once fully cured it can be sanded. Even now after 2 months it has the consistency of very hard rubber. Brian Eckstein ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Parker43rp <Parker43rp(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
Listers: I am in the process of painting my RV-6 with Centari without the hardner using a Croix LPHV sprayer. I am having trouble eliminating orangepeel texture in the cured finish. I have thinned the paint to the recommended viscosity, used a higher temperature reducer, and added retarder in different combinations with incomplete success. The size of the needle and air cap assembly of the sprayer is 0.7. The Centari is applied in 3 crosscoats over veriprime. Does anyone have experience with these products and equipment? Ray Parker RV-6 final assembly and painting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
Date: Mar 04, 1998
---------- > From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> > Restrictor: an AN rivet pressed in and drilled with the smallest drill bit > you have. > > Michael > RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Michael, Interesting approach. "an AN rivet pressed in and drilled..." Pressed in where? For electric as well as mechanical gauges? Bob RV-6 Cowling San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
Vanremog wrote: > -Do we know anyone able to make replacement machined thick walled Delrin bowls > to replace our zinc plated steel ones? This would minimize the heat soak > (insulative) and the probable bowl corrosion due to trapped water mentioned > previously. We had a result similar to the bowl corrosion Mark described here > in CA recently. > > -GV > Again, consider the Andair Gascolator available from Chief or Aircraft Spruce. They are beautifully machined aluminum and coated with a corrosion resistant epoxy. Frank ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com>
Subject: airfoil templates
> As someone else pointed out the airfoil templates can help you >line up the flaps and Ailerons but their main purpose is to >help you set the wing incidence once the wings are mounted to the >fuselage. There is a drawing that explains how to cut them so that >when they are on the wings you can put a level on the top side to >the right set on both wings before drilling the rear wings spar >bolt. Since my wings are not yet mounted and I already tossed the templates out, I'm hoping that it will be OK to just place a 3.03 inch spacer on the rear spar as shown in the sketch and level from there to the main spar. Anyone see any problems with doing it this way? As far as I can tell it should work just fine. Bruce Stobbe RV-6 canopy frame ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Ray, Please keep us posted on your progress with Centari. I'll be investigating paint this summer and would be very interested in your experience. Thanks, Bob RV-6 Cowling San Antonio ---------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
Parker43rp wrote: > > > Listers: > I am in the process of painting my RV-6 with Centari without the hardner using Why no hardner? Usually the hardener is a benifit to the durability of the final job. > a > Croix LPHV sprayer. I am having trouble eliminating orangepeel texture in the > cured finish. Two things to try - put an extra length of air hose in line (50 ft rather than the regular 25 feet) to let the turbine air cool more. This will extend the drying time for the paint and allow more flow out. The second thing to check is your spraying distance - It should be about 6- 8 inches from the part being sprayed and perpendicular to the part. If you are further from the part or not perpendicular the paint will have to travel further to the surface and allow it to dry slightly and thus the dreaded orange peel. A cure for this is to let it dry completely and then polish the peel out to a shine. A few light coats of paint is better than one or two heavy ones. You want to achive full coverage paint job with as little paint as possible. Keep it light and looking good ! I have thinned the paint to the recommended viscosity, used a > higher temperature reducer, and added retarder in different combinations with > incomplete success. The size of the needle and air cap assembly of the > sprayer is 0.7. > > The Centari is applied in 3 crosscoats over veriprime. Does anyone have > experience with these products and equipment? > > Ray Parker > RV-6 final assembly and painting > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
<< At this point the crank is pitted per Lycoming SB505B, it may or may not be serviceable depending on how deep the pitting is and how much extra material I have over the minimum allowable I.D., and I'm still trying to work things out with the seller. As soon as the entire story plays itself out, I intend on posting the "engine" experience to the list. Rob (RV-6Q). >> When I removed the plug from the front of my IO-320 to convert it back to a constant speed, the inside of the crank was coated with about a 1/4" thick sludge. After cleaning all of it out, the crank had no signs of corrosion or pitting. But what suprised me were the coarse machine grooves inside the crank that look like they were a result of manufacturing. I expected it to be a lot smoother. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV Finishing up Frederick gear fairings! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Proseal Question
<< How long does it take for this stuff to cure? Tommy W. (First time proseal user) RV-6A Tanks >> It depends on the ambient temperature of your shop. It seems like at around 75 F the PS870-B2 will set in about 2 hours and take around 24 to cure enough so that it doesn't feel tacky. Colder temps will extend this, warmer will speed it up. My first tank I built in Feb, and I had plenty of working time with the sealer, and it took a couple of days before it no longer felt tacky. The second tank I built in July, and man was I surprised at how much shorter my working time was! I also discovered that mixing smaller batches would help extend the working time. It seems that if you mix up a big batch, the increased mass causes it to start to warm up and set faster. This has been my experience. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
<< You should use a restrictor fitting so if you have a pressure line failure all your oil is not dumped overboard. All certified aircraft using mechanical guages have restrictor fittings that I have ever worked on. Having air in the line will cause inaccurate readings. Both Cessna and Piper talk about this in some of their literature. I just had a friend put a factory overhauled engine in his certified a/c and had sluggish pressure readings and low pressure at idle. My test guage showed everything to be ok. I bled the air out of the line at the guage and presto it was fixed. Rick Bell, Jr. A&P RV4 N83RB "Margaritaville Air Express" >> Tony Bengelis shows how to fabricate and install restrictor fittings in both of his books. He uses an AN470 rivet and drills a small hole in it. This is placed in between the fitting on the engine and the hose going to the sender mounted on the firewall. I was worried that this would leak, so I installed one to find out. I've had 60 psi oil pressure showing with no leak yet. I also installed one on the fuel pressure line going to the fuel pressure sender. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal Question
22> <000b01bd46fd$d407e7c0$f7fb2499@tommy-> <000b01bd46fd$d407e7c0$f7fb2499@tommy-> >> How long does it take for this stuff to cure? >I prosealed the tanks in late december 1997. It took several days until it >wasn't sticky and several weeks until it was solid. Some professionals I have >talked to have said that it will continue to cure over a long time and that once >fully cured it can be sanded. Even now after 2 months it has the consistency of >very hard rubber. >Brian Eckstein I would doubt the bit about "sanding" proseal. It is supposed to stay flexible. If it ever got "hard" then it would crack and leak as the airplane flexed under loads. I have proseal that was applied 25+ years ago on a homebuilt that is still flexible and would not "sand". The process of curing is temerature dependent. For every 10 degrees C (~20F) increase in temp. the curing time is decreased by 50%. Thus if you want it to cure quickly, take it in the house if it is cold in your shop. I know of one builder who claims to have wrapped his parts in an electric blanket to speed the cure. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
<< Ask for them back & if not cracked >> What did the shop say was wrong with your crank. How can you be sure that you'll get yours back? Not to sound paranoid but you r crank could be fine but you might get one back that is out of limits. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
>> WE need to hear the story. I am hunting the same thing. IF I don't find >> one quick I am thinking about trying to install my Cont E225-8. > >At this point the crank is pitted per Lycoming SB505B, it may or may not be >serviceable depending on how deep the pitting is and how much extra >material I have over the minimum allowable I.D., and I'm still trying to >work things out with the seller. >Rob (RV-6Q). I have just this week inspected and cleaned my own O-320E2G's crank snout in accordance with the SB. I found "light" pitting on this 22 year old shaft with 2350 TT. The pitting such as it was was *NOT* my main concern. The "screw threads" left inside the crank snout were *MUCH* more serious stress risers that some hard to see pitting. The inside bore was so poorly machined that it was actually hard to find any pitting for all the roughness left by the factory. Maybe this crank was made on a Monday or Friday? My repair to the factory machine work also satisfied the SB and I now have a crank which is slick as any well machined surface should be with a surface finish of 30-40 u in rms. (Looks like really smooth cylinder honing) I chucked the crank in a fixture which allowed me to see down into the bore with a good light. I obtained an industrial hone and applied cutting fluid in copius amounts while running the hone in the bore with an oscillating motion (in and out). I initially used a 100 grit stone set, and frequently stopped to check the bore. Using a "deep hole" bore gauge from Sterrit Instruments to carefully measure the ID, I was able to clear all the pitting *LONG* before the "screw threads" were finally cleaned up. I finished with a 300 grit stone set and left the surface extremely smooth and free of any evidence of tool marks. The ID was well under the factory max called out by Lycoming and I didn't remove material "locally", but instead honed it across the entire 6" depth of the snout. The crank is being turned 3/3 and renitrided and cad plated. After its complete I'll coat the ID and mark the crank "PID" and be free from any further AD compliance issues in the future. Since not all individuals have access to machine shop equipment, nor would be capable or qualified to run such items, I may be available to do cranks for others if a demand exists. Email me off the list if interested. I have been discussing my findings (screw threads) with my local FSDO inspector with an eye towards possibly offering an "in place" honing of crank snouts to comply with the Ad and SB, and to remove what I feel are even worse stress risers left from poor machining. With the spinner off, and some provision to plug the crank at the rear to keep the grit out of the crank case, it looks to be a workable solution. I have an O-320E2D that I will be trying it on installed in the plane before I go further with offering this procedure to assembled engines. The entire process cost me just under $1,000 for equipment. That is 1/3 the cost of a new crank, and I can amortize that over my 3 engines. I'd say the cost per engine will run around $100 each considering shop time and consumable materials (stone sets and cutting oil) after the initial investment is covered. Just so everyone agrees this is RV related Nearly all the engines people choose for any RV have this AD and SB applicable. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
> is there a method for bleeding the line without >a bleeder fitting? This and any other info be greatly appreciated as >I'm getting ready to install both the FP and OP senders. >Randall Randall, Loosen the fitting at the sender, wrap a rag around the sender/fitting and safety wire the rag in place and run the engine to purge the possible air? Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com e mount. I used the bracket off of the Cherokee 140 wreck that I bought. You might try an aircraft salvage yard, telling them how far out from the firewall you need the bracket to locate the gascolator. You do want to make sure that the gascolator is mounted firmly to the firewall. You don't want to hang it on the aluminum tubing, or a bulkhead fitting. By the way, I mounted my gascolator on the right side (as well as the electric boost pump.) Then, you have a straight shot from the outlet of the gascolator to the inlet of the mechanical fuel pump, eleminating the loop caused as a result of mounting the gascolator on the left side. Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com iece of 1/8" foam sheet to >the inner top surface of the tips ? Some people have done this to avoid the >waviness that appears in the top surface of the tips after a while. I >thought about doing this but did not because I have looked at a number of >RVs that have been flying a long time and their tips look good to me. >Any comments ?...............Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: airfoil templates
I used the spacer and a digital level (accurate to 0.2 of a degree) to set incident angle of wings. Worked just fine. However, try several orientations on rear spar to convince yourself you have the right position and once you do for one wing - check to make certain that the rear spar/fuselage fitting have sufficient edge distance of material according to Van's instruction. Then BEFORE you drill make certain the second wing can be set to the SAME incident angle and has sufficient material before drilling either rear spar fitting. I ended up needing to increase angle of incident for both wings by 1/2 degree in order to leave sufficient edge material around hole. Then you will need to adjust horizontal stabalizer. It was necessary for me to add a 1/8" spacer between forward horz stab and fuselage longeron to keep the incident relationship between wing and horz stab. Ed BStobbe wrote: > > > et mounted and I already tossed the templates out, > I'm hoping that it will be OK to just place a 3.03 inch spacer on the rear > spar as shown in the sketch and level from there to the main spar. > > Anyone see any problems with doing it this way? As far as I can tell it > should work just fine. > > Bruce Stobbe > RV-6 > canopy frame > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: Good Crank
> >As I disassembled the engine, I was amazed at how easily it came apart, and at >how little wear was evident on the wearable parts. Kyle, I was just reading Lycomings overhaul manual last night and have come away somewhat intimidated. Especially when it comes to checking al of the tolerances and making sure all of the right parts are within specs. Also, they specify all sorts of tools for removing the parts what tools have you purchased? >The word from the shop was "You have a good crank". I asked what recertifying >the "good crank" was going to cost. I am not sure what to expect when sending parts out to check. It seems there are so many horror stories, I am not confident in this regard. >I will send the cam, rods, cylinders, etc. off for recertification soon, but I >don't forsee any major problems at this time. I expect this engine will fly >again for a total of $9,000 - $10,000 invested. > >Just wanted to share my engine experience. I hope you will keep me/us updated. I am seriously considering at least pulling my engine apart for inspection if nothing else. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: airfoil templates
>I already tossed the templates out, I'm hoping that it will be OK to just place >a 3.03 inch spacer on the rear spar as shown in the sketch and level from there >to the main spar. Anyone see any problems with doing it this way? The spacer method was the only way to mount the -4 wings and it works just fine. Do it in multiple places along the spar, and the same places on both wings. Not sure if this made any difference, but it made me think it was more accurate. And Suzie Q flys straight and fast. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Formative Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 03, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
I designed and fabricated a genuine elegant solution to this problem which is cheaper simpler and lighter than anyone elses, that I've seen. It is also easier to do than any I have seen. I have showed it to many and they all nod politely but none have duplicated it! I used a pin about one quarter inch longer than the hinge and put a ninety degree bend in it. I then used a dremel wheel and small file to put an ell shaped slot in the inboard most hinge loop. The slot is such that it is only exposed when the tab is at ninety degrees or so (disconnected), so the pin is retained during all normal operation angles. to remove it you must disconnect the pushrod from the horn, and rotate the tab to ninety degrees. Maybe the reason nobody else has done it is they don't understand my crystal clear directions?? Hmmm. I am going to sun n fun and I will put a sign on my tail pointing to this pin retainer. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: landing/taxi lights
Date: Mar 04, 1998
This may be an oversimplification, but... Why couldn't we use a standard auto headlight for a combination landing/ taxi light? On dim it would be a taxi light, and on bright it would be a landing light. The mount would be easy enough - get one from a junk yard. The lens could be Lexan formed to the shape of the wing's leading edge. Has anyone tried this? Bob 6A empennage on order ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Lines
>Interesting approach. "an AN rivet pressed in and drilled..." Pressed in >where? For electric as well as mechanical gauges? Yes, for both. The idea is that if a break in the sender line occurs the oil will still pump out, but at a MUCH slower rate, one that may allow you to get on the ground before the noise stops. The fitting from the oil pressure port on the back of the engine is a straight or 45 degree steel AN fitting (many engines have to have this on BEFORE it is on the engine mount). In the outlet hole (the flare fitting end) is where the rivet goes. Actually, I think I lied: a rivet (AN5) was recommended but I used a piece of a brass rod I got from the local hardware/hobby store instead. I can't remember the size. I took one of the fittings to the store and got a rod that was just a little larger than the outlet hole, then gently enlarged the hole with a drill bit to match the diameter of the rod. I drilled the small hole in the rod BEFORE pressing it into the fitting. "Pressing" was actually shoving....I mean gently pushing it in by hand. Since the rod is slightly larger than the passageway in the Aeroquip fitting of the hose, that helps keep it in place. Then, of course, a flexable Aeroquip hose with a slight bend in it to allow for engine movement from the engine to the firewall-mounted electronic sender. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Formative Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: Trim Tab Hinge
Date: Mar 04, 1998
---------- > From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> > >I then used a dremel wheel and small file to put an ell shaped slot in the inboard most hinge loop Dennis, Good note. Is the "L" shaped slot in the hinge that is riveted to the elevator or the hinge that is riveted to the horizontal stab? or does it matter? Thanks, Bob RV-6 San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
Date: Mar 04, 1998
> From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com> > constant speed, the inside of the crank was coated with about a 1/4" thick > sludge. After cleaning all of it out, the crank had no signs of corrosion or > pitting. But what suprised me were the coarse machine grooves inside the crank > that look like they were a result of manufacturing. I expected it to be a lot > smoother. Mark, I concure, the machining marks on mine are deep and have a burr on them. I would think they are far worse than minor pitting in regards to being stress risers. Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Bad Crank
<< How can you be sure that you'll get yours back? Not to sound paranoid but you r crank could be fine but you might get one back that is out of limits. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ >> Gary and others, If you are sending out your parts for overhaul this way you should be taking down any serial numbers or other identifying marks before you ship them. This is important on cylinders, crank, and case halves. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Paint (NOT primer) Question
If I remember correctly theyre both poly paints made by different manufacturers. I believe Imron is one of the first polys introduced by DuPont and Durethane is PPG's line of polys. IMHO anything with PPG on it will do ya right if you can perform up to its demands. Eric Henson ---------- From: Michael J. Robbins Subject: RV-List: Paint (NOT primer) Question Date: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 10:03PM My favorite auto paint store carries both Imron and Durathane. Are they essentially the same, or does one go on easier than the other? Mike Robbins RV-8 #591 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Do it yourself ov protection . . .
I've had a number of requests recently for information on crafting one's own crowbar overvoltage protection module. I've just posted an article in .pdf format for those interested in the data. See . . . <http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html> Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: landing/taxi lights
<< This may be an oversimplification, but... Why couldn't we use a standard auto headlight for a combination landing/ taxi light? On dim it would be a taxi light, and on bright it would be a landing light. The mount would be easy enough - get one from a junk yard. The lens could be Lexan formed to the shape of the wing's leading edge. Has anyone tried this? >> What you describe is the landing light system that Bob Olds sells. I used it and it works great. I put one in each wing. Instead of using a Hi/Low switch I used a separate taxi light circuit and landing light circuit. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
> OK, OK! But, if you run mogas, heat absorbsion is something you REALLY have > to watch. The gascolator fwd of the firewall is a large heatsoak I choose to > not carry around. One aborted takeoff will convince you of this, esp if the > runway is fairly short. All true, which is another reason to put it in the wing root. Eustace Bowhay did this and it was written up in the RVator a while back. It looked good to me so I did it too. It took come careful measuring to make sure it will clear the other plumbing, etc., not to mention the plumbinbg to and from the gascolator, what with the electric pump, stiffener angles and bulkheads to get around. I have a pretty big pile of "practice" lines as a result of that little endeavor, but what the heck, 3/8" alum tube is pretty cheap. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Trim Tab Hinge
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Reply to: I designed and fabricated a genuine elegant solution to this problem which is cheaper simpler and lighter than anyone else's, that I've seen. It is also easier to do than any I have seen.... That sounds really nice. My chances of getting to FLA. are exactly zero, so is it possible that you could send a photo or drawing to Van's for publication or otherwise post something so that I could see It? Steve Soule Huntington, VT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Fluid Dynamic, by Hoerner
I have both and the Fluid Dynamic Drag is the better book to buy. Both books are interesting and written in plain language that is easy to understand. They are the best books on aerodynamics ever written and as still used as text books today. Jim Cone jamescone(at)aol.com RV-6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: HELP! F-607/608 Bulkhead Question
> How did the skin fit? Have you progressed past the riveting point? > One of the earlier replies mentioned that the bulge was there to > accomodate a side-effect of the creation method for that skin, which > was a slight bulge. The concern is oil-canning, not "wavyness" -- I doubt you'd ever get wavyness whichever way you did it unless you were REALLY sloppy when fitting the skins. I would recommend leaving the bulge in. The revision was done for a reason as Art Chard confirmed, even though no one else at Vans seems to remember it. I suspect that he, being the prototype builder, was the one most likely to know about this sort of effect, and got the revision in there without ever having it be acknowledged or even noticed by others on the staff. I built it per the plans, and although I fretted over the aesthetics of it, after it's all together and turned over you would have to put a straightedge on the longerons to ever notice they aren't straight. And I don't have any oil-canning of the skin. You may or may not have oil-canning if you make the longerons straight, but I think you'd probably be more likely to have it than not in that case. Bottom line is, pick a method and go with it. Obviously people have done it both ways and they both fly! If there's oil canning you can always add a stiffener. It is frankly not easy to build a whole airplane and have no oil-canning anywhere. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Noel E Drew <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com>
Subject: Oil Pressure Sender.
Date: Mar 04, 1998
As a result of a dubious regard for the integrity of my oil pressure sender, I installed alongside it, an oil pressure switch to an idiot light on my panel. The theory is that should the sender fail and show no pressure, the light can be used for confirmation of a cause for an emergency. I watch the light go out on start up to confirm that it is working and, in the event of an indicated loss of pressure, will decide between a precautionary landing and a flight to the nearest airport on the basis of whether the light is lit. Never tested this for real though. ZU-APF RV6 160 hours [Noel E Drew] South Africa noeldrew(at)iafrica.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: Bad Crank
Date: Mar 04, 1998
>>Just so everyone agrees this is RV related Nearly all the engines >>people choose for any RV have this AD and SB applicable. Is it true that CS RV's don't have to comply with this one? G. Fesenbek Roanoke, VA (RV for short) Priming parts for assembly (please no primer flames!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
I used Centari on cars a couple times and used it on my engine mount, steel parts and the interior. What worked for me was to use the hardner, wich seems to make it a lot more forgiving as well as adding gloss and hardning. As I recollect the hardner costs about as much as the paint and it contains the evil stuff you don't wnat to breath or touch. Good luck. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
> >>Okay you RV-6 builder/Flyers, where in the heck did you >>put the gascolator? One of the drawings in the Construction >>manual shows it hanging in space about six inches off the >>firewall about even with the gear leg. >>Randy Pflanzer > >Randy, > > As you've discovered, mounting the gascolator can present some problems. >The bracket that ACS sells will not place the gascolator forward far enough >to clear the cross tube on the engine mount. I used the bracket off of the >Cherokee 140 wreck that I bought. You might try an aircraft salvage yard, >telling them how far out from the firewall you need the bracket to locate >the gascolator. You do want to make sure that the gascolator is mounted >firmly to the firewall. You don't want to hang it on the aluminum tubing, >or a bulkhead fitting. > By the way, I mounted my gascolator on the right side (as well as the >electric boost pump.) Then, you have a straight shot from the outlet of the >gascolator to the inlet of the mechanical fuel pump, eleminating the loop >caused as a result of mounting the gascolator on the left side. > >Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com > > Bob, Thank you......Finally someone answered the question Randy asked. I have been fiddling with that ACS mounting bracket for a while looking for a solution to the interference with the engine mount cross tube. One of the other issues is that once the bracket is mounted to the firewall the bail is irremovable as far as I can see. I have been contempating building a bracket for the bracket but it seemed an irritation.... down to the wreckers for me. The other issue is the left/right one. It looks so much more logical to have the gascolator on the right that I assumed the left sided location must have been mandated.... the loop protects against vibration or some such? I would love to know if there is a reason. Cheers, Leo Davies ##$@$$%$#!! gascolator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: "VanArtsdalen, Scott" <scott.vanartsdalen(at)lmco.com>
Subject: What wire
I want to go ahead and pull the wire for my nav and landing lights. What size/type/part no. wire should be used for the nav lights? Landing light? I'm going to use the nav light with the strobe built in and will probably mount the power supply(ies?) for the strobes in the wing tips. Any suggestions? -- Scott Van Artsdalen RV-4 #1054, left wing in jig ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: landing/taxi lights
> > ><< This may be an oversimplification, but... Why couldn't we use a standard > auto headlight for a combination landing/ taxi light? On dim it would be a > taxi light, and on bright it would be a landing light. The mount would be > easy enough - get one from a junk yard. The lens could be Lexan formed to > the shape of the wing's leading edge. > > Has anyone tried this? >> Sure. IMHO it's the ONLY way to go. Modern halogen automotive headlamps outshine (no pun intended) ANY certified sealed-beam in terms of both performance and longevity. Further, they're less expensive when purchased at K-Mart. Consider adapting a hi-lo lamp and making the low beam lamp available too . . . it's not pointed in the OPTIMUM direction but it's a whole lot better than no light at all. When the high beam filament goes, you've got a standby built into the same bulb. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do, > < What you've always done, > < You will continue to be, > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: landing/taxi lights
I purchased the Landing lights from Van's the box say its a 55 watt Halogen Lamp. IMHO this does not seem bright enough - Anyone have any experience with this BSivori(at)AOL.Com N929RV ( Reserved ) Wings in Jigs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: RE:Good Crank
In response to my earlier post (which I never saw on the list???), Shelby wrote: >Kyle, I was just reading Lycomings overhaul manual last night and have come >away somewhat intimidated. Especially when it comes to checking al of the >tolerances and making sure all of the right parts are within specs. Also, >they specify all sorts of tools for removing the parts what tools have you bought? The only tools I borrowed were cylinder wrenches. Otherwise, a few sockets, screwdrivers, etc were all that was required. I also got one of the local A&P's to split the case, as mine is doweled, and I wasn't comfortable with popping it open. He charged me $20. I will have my tolerences done in a shop. I'm only good for the wrench work... Shelby also asked about repair services. I'm using Aircraft Specialties Services in Tulsa Oklahoma (1-800-826-9252). Three things led me to this shop: 1) The shop was highly recommended. 2) The shop can do all of the work...No need to send a part to a local service, who sends it to a guy, who sends it to a guy... 3) They have a published standard price list and a 1-800 number, which at least implies a professional shop. I'll keep everyone updated. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
> One of the other issues is that once the bracket is mounted to the > firewall the bail is irremovable as far as I can see. I have been > contempating building a bracket for the bracket but it seemed an > irritation.... down to the wreckers for me. Before you toss the bracket -- you should know that if you turn the bracket upside down then the gascolator can be installed sidewase and its easy to get the bale out. Of course this would mean the fuel would have to come straight out the fwall, which may or may not work for you depending on your installation. Regardless, it doesn't seem to me like it would be much work to take some scrap alum. or stainless (you could use scrap from the fwall cutout if you did that and didn't have a PP fwall) and just cut off the "ears" of the bracket and bend some new ones up and rivet them on to extend the dist. from the firewall. I agree its a hassle to have to modify an item like this but I still think it would be easier than running around trying to find a used one that would work. As I said in an earlier post, I put mine in the wing root, not inverted and tight spacing so I have to remove the bracket or at least loosen it to get the bale out which is why I put nutplates on it, but anyways, I did look at it a while and these are my thoughts. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
Hello listers; For a restrictor, I drilled the drilled and tapped the fuel and oil pressure fittings and lock tighted in a set screw that had been drilled. I think it is the only way to fly. John kitz N721JK Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Re: Good Crank
BSivori wrote: > > > Kyle, > > By the time I sent out the cylinders for work - shiping etc, the cost of new > ones was not that much diffrent, chek it out. > > Bill I don't know where you guys are sending your parts for repair, but Clydesdale is a nationally recognized name. They measured my cylinders, honed them, pressed in new valve guides, and ground the valves and seats all for $250.00, thats right, $250.00 for 4 cylinders. That was 60 some dollars each. John Kitz N721JK Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender.
Noel wrote about his oil pressure warning light: > I watch the light go out on start up to confirm that it is working and, in the event of an indicated loss of pressure, will decide between a precautionary landing and a flight to the nearest airport on the basis of whether the light is lit. In autos we called them "idiot lights" because only an idiot would drive without one eye on the oil pressure gauge, I guess. In airplanes they are called "annunciators" and they are a hell of a good idea. They put this warning stuff in multimillion dollar jets because humans do on rare occasion not look at the gauge often enough. A loud clattering is not the ideal annunciator! If you watch the oil gauge too much you aren't looking for traffic maybe? Oil pressure can go from fifty pounds to zero in a few seconds so a once every few minutes is not a fast enough scan. I find I sometimes go many minutes at a time just looking out the window or at the gyros. The basis for an emergency landing or not should probably be the gauge and the light and not just the light, however IMHO. I'd like to have annunciators for everything, like for when everything is up but the gear or the mixture. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
>I used the ACS mount. I mounted it in the center of the firewall just above >the cross bar. No clearence problems. If you put it in any other location it >becomes difficult to sump the bowl on preflight (short of putting some kind of >access door in the lower cowl). >Gary Corde >RV-6 N21GC - NJ Gary, I didn't do anything elegant for gascolator drain access, just drilled a hole in the bottom of the cowl on the right side. Your method would eliminate the hole. Your installation would have the gascolator mounted higher than mine for clearance of the engine mount cross tube but I don't suppose it would make that much difference as either location is not a low point in the fuel system of a RV-6. I feel a little better, having the gascolator mounted on the right side, away from the exhaust system as opposed to the center of the firewall mounting, however. Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com>
Subject: RV-6 canopy frame
I just started working on fitting the fwd canopy frame to the fuselage and have already determined that I will need to shim the frame up 3/8" above the longerons in order to have it line up flush with the top flange of the F-668 sub-panel and the top flange of the firewall. The plans say to use a 1/8" to 3/16" shim in order to get this alignment, but for me this is not enough. For those that have been there, can you see any problems in increasing this gap to 3/8"? Also, the plans say to cut a slot in the F-668 to accomodate the hinge arms, but don't specify whether the slot is to continue up through the flange of F-668 or not. Neither the pictures (which are not too useful since they are of the prototype and things have changed since then) nor the plans seem to offer any clarification on this, unless I've missed something. I've cut the smallest slot possible for the time being and haven't extended it up thru the flange yet. Any comments from those of you fortunate enough to be finished with this portion? Bruce Stobbe RV-6 canopy frame ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
>The other issue is the left/right one. It looks so much more logical to >have the gascolator on the right that I assumed the left sided location >must have been mandated.... the loop protects against vibration or some >such? I would love to know if there is a reason. >Leo Davies Leo, I kind of thought the same thing when I was building but couldn't come up any logical reason for left side mounting of the gascolator. I have enough hose from the gascolator to the mechanical fuel pump to allow for engine flex and haven't had any problems so far. By the way, I have my gascolator mounted so the inlet & outlet are fore & aft. The fuel line from the fuel valve is a straigt shot into the inlet. In the outlet, I have a 45 degree AN fitting. I also built a cooling shroud around the gascolator. Also, the gascolator bracket that I "borrowed" from the Cherokee 140 was steel and much sturdier. Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: financing rv kits
Has anybody experience (good or bad) with financing an RV kit ?? Just about to order an -8 emp. Gert ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
From: rvpilot(at)juno.com (William R. Davis Jr)
Hi Ray, I had a very bad experience several years ago using Centauri without the hardener. when spraying on a second coat the next day after the first coat, the fresh coat caused the underlying paint to blister up in big spots, probably 30% of the area was affected. My anguished call to the DuPont Tech. Rep. brought the answer that Centauri should never be used without the hardener. He had no answer for the fact that their technical Lit. does not mention this. He claims that Centauri without hardener can take up to 6 Mo. or longer to completely dry. If you are going to use Centauri, please use the hardener, the finish will be harder, glossier, and cure completely. As to the orange peel, my experience with the Croix and Centauri was that the paint had to be thinned out much thinner than normal. Since Centauri dries fairly rapidly,it must be put on wet enough to flow out before it starts to dry. The Croix makes the problem worse because of the hot air from the turbine. An extra length of hose can help. Personally, I have given up on Centauri, there are better products out there. Regards, Bill, RV4, N66WD _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Ray; I used Centari with the hardener and an LPHV gun that I bought form Harbor Freight. Got a fair amount of orange peel but not very rough. Did some touch ups with a good touch up gun and got a surface like glass. I think it was that none of us had experience with a LPHV. I don't think it is a paint problem, but what do I know? John C Darby Jr. RV6 N61764 sold Stephenville TX >I am in the process of painting my RV-6 with Centari without the hardner using >a >Croix LPHV sprayer. I am having trouble eliminating orangepeel texture in the >cured finish. I have thinned the paint to the recommended viscosity, used a Does anyone have >experience with these products and equipment? > >Ray Parker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Bad Crank
.com> >>>Just so everyone agrees this is RV related Nearly all the >engines people choose for any RV have this AD and SB applicable. > Is it true that CS RV's don't have to comply with this one? > G. Fesenbek The AD (in its latest release!!) is worded such that all engines of 150 HP or less are not included. The SB still applies, but under part 91 we don't *HAVE* to comply with the SB. At the next OH, you may find that your crank won't pass muster and will need to be replaced, but you will not be forced to take it out of service *NOW*. The AD is aimed at 151+ HP fixed pitch prop engine. So all the High Compression O-320s and all the O-360s (with the exception of a couple "solid" shaft engines) will be required to have mandated inspections for corrosion pits. The Controllable prop engines will not have to be inspected in the field, but at next OH they will have to be checked for compliance. Thus you could go in for a first run OH and expect your crank would be serviceable, and find it not useable. In the strictest sense, *ANY* RV can be exempt from this (or any) AD by giving your log book and data plate to your local FSDO inspector. If you have a data plate and logbook with a Lycoming model number then you must comply with all applicable ADs. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: less_drag(at)juno.com
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Questions
Hi All, Question #1; I didn't use gear leg stiffeners. I balanced the wheel pants. Question #3; I installed the MAC servo in the tail and ran the wires forward to the switch on the front panel. I used a short cable from the trim tab to the MAC servo. It saves some weight in the tail. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com writes: > > >I have a few questions for those who have "been there done that". > >1. Did you use gear leg stiffners? If so why? what material did you >use, and how did you attach them? >2. Should I paint the cockpit rails? If any thing is going to get >scratched and beat up it would be these, I could polished them! >3.I installed manual trim but think I will convert to electric. >Could I attach the MAC servo to the front of the manuel cable >under the throttle quad? >Answers to any, or all of these questions would be of great help. > >Thanks > >Craig Hiers >RV-4 N143CH >Tallahassee.FL > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
From: ebundy(at)juno.com (Ed Bundy)
> Tony Bengelis shows how to fabricate and install restrictor >fittings in both of his books. He uses an AN470 rivet and drills a small hole in >it. This is placed in between the fitting on the engine and the hose going to >the sender mounted on the firewall. I was worried that this would leak, so This apparently works fine, but I thought it was a little "clunky". I opted to use a steel fitting with the NPT end soldered shut. Then drill an .060 or so hole through it and install. I think either way is just as effective, but I feel it is imperative that this be done. A #8 hose can empty your engine mighty quickly. Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@juno.com - http://members.aol.com/rv67em/ - _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Paint (NOT primer) Question
From: smcdaniels(at)juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Mar 05, 1998
>My favorite auto paint store carries both Imron and Durathane. Are >they >essentially the same, or does one go on easier than the other? > > >Mike Robbins >RV-8 #591 > > Mike I have painted with both. They both can produce excellent results but are different. Durethane is a true polyurethane like Pratt&Lambert Jet Glow the new Superflight polyurethane (which the Yellow RV-8 prototype was painted with) and a number of others. One of the characteristics of these paints is a very slow drying time. Which as a result produces the very wet look mirror finish (if applied properly; not guaranteed) that is common on many airplanes. But, because of the slow dry time you need a very clean environment to spray in and then shut the door and walk away for about 24 hours. During this time there must be no dust, dirt, bugs, etc in the paint area to contaminate the finish. But the positive side is that it flows and flows and flows to a very smooth shinny finish. I painted my RV-6A with durethane. It was a challenge but it turned out great, and after 5 years and 600 hours people were still asking me if it was new. Imron drys much faster which as a result is more prone to orange peel if not applied properly (but less prone to be contaminated from dust, dirt, etc.), but it too can provide a very wet shinny looking finish which also seems to be quite durable though I don't know how the durability compares to some of the other slow drying polyurethanes. Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs. Finally Sold! These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] l and adjust the gun with the other controls. The over spray will still be greatly reduced from that of a regular gun. Also because of the lower quality atomization it seems to work better to spray on well wetted cross coats (just short of getting sags and runs) which helps the paint to flow well and flatten out the orange peel/splatter problems. If the temperature you are spraying in is anything above 65 Deg. F. or so, the drying time is a factor with most paints when using the HVLP. I have often had to use right at or just slightly over the max amount of reducer recommended. Besides the longer hose, another thing that can help if you are spraying in a rather warm environment is to loop the hose through a 5 gal bucket of cold water right after it exits the turbine. This can result in the air temp from the hose not staying the same through your whole paint session but you can have someone change the water regularly to try and keep it the same temp. Doing this lowers the temp of the air before it gets to the gun. Hope this is of some help Scott McDaniels RV-6A N64SD 560+ Hrs. Finally Sold! These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PANNAIR <PANNAIR(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6 canopy frame
Bruce--- I ended up with 1/4" or more and it worked out OK. The canopee(can of worms) call it what you want is a bugger! Take your time with it, it will finally come around. The slots need to be cut through the flange or the canopy might not blow off if ejected, the hinges could catch....(My assumption).... anybody else???? Dave--- rder to get this alignment, but for me this is not > enough. > 3/8" should be alright but check to make sure that the firewall - subpanel are perfectly in line and in the correct location. A lot of builders have needed to increase the dimensional clearance with the instriment panel. > For those that have been there, can you see any problems in increasing this > gap to 3/8"? > > Also, the plans say to cut a slot in the F-668 to accomodate the hinge > arms, but don't specify whether the slot is to continue up through the > flange of F-668 or not. Neither the pictures (which are not too useful > since they are of the prototype and things have changed since then) nor the > plans seem to offer any clarification on this, unless I've missed something. > Cut the slot all the way through the flange if you want the canopy to jettison in flight. (Van's has said that to their knowledge no one has used this option in flight.) If you just want the canopy to be removed for servicing then a closed slot will do. Do install some form of the jettison release mechanism as bolts through the hinge points are a real bear to get out when you are done riveting the forward skin in place. > I've cut the smallest slot possible for the time being and haven't extended > it up thru the flange yet. Any comments from those of you fortunate enough > to be finished with this portion? > > Bruce Stobbe > RV-6 > canopy frame > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Gascolators and Filters
I'm trying to find a high pressure one that can > handle the fuel injection boost pump pressure (30 psi). Any help on that? >> > Could you not place the gascolater before the pump? You would then not need a pricey model Gary Zilik ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: What wire
<< I want to go ahead and pull the wire for my nav and landing lights. What size/type/part no. wire should be used for the nav lights? Landing light? I'm going to use the nav light with the strobe built in and will probably mount the power supply(ies?) for the strobes in the wing tips. Any suggestions? -- Scott Van Artsdalen RV-4 #1054, left wing in jig >> May I recommend purchasing a copy of Bob Nuckolls "Aeroelectric Connection". I found it to be very usefull, it includes a wire sizing chart. Very good chapter on thermocouples, some sample schematics. A good reference book to have around when you get to the panel wiring stage. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 04, 1998
From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Re: Gascolator Location
Jim, Does the Facet pump, of which you speak, have a quickdrain built into it? Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: What wire
<< want to go ahead and pull the wire for my nav and landing lights. What size/type/part no. wire should be used for the nav lights? Landing light? I'm going to use the nav light with the strobe built in and will probably mount the power supply(ies?) for the strobes in the wing tips. Any suggestions? >> The strobes I sell use 1.5A @ 14V each. We run the recommended 18GA wire to 'em. We use 14GA for the Duckworks landing lights, and 16GA for the nav's. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 canopy frame
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Bruce, I've done the tip up canopy and agree with you on both issues. 1. The gap between my longeron and the forward canopy frame had to be more than 3/16 inch. 2. I left the flange on the sub panel. Bob San Antonio RV-6 Cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: financing rv kits
<< Has anybody experience (good or bad) with financing an RV kit ?? >> Call Bobby Thomas at Citizens National Bank. Bobby is a RV builder/flyer and just an all around good guy. In order to finance a kit you will need to register your aircraft, have a title search and insure the kit. He'll also let you take out a loan against a completed RV. Citizens National Bank Laurel MD (301) 497 6220 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)adobe.com>
Subject: Painting with Centari
Painting with Centari is not hard. Here are some tips that might help. 0. Before you start painting, water down the floor. Don't make puddles, just make sure it is wet. This will prevent you from kicking up dust from sanding or whatever pre-paint activities you made as you move around the project painting. 1. Always use the hardener. It's very toxic so ALWAYS use a mask when you are around this stuff. 2. Never spray heavy coats! Always use a light mist for the first coat and let it become tacky before the second and later coats. 3. As you near the final coat add a little more reducer to your paint cup on the spray gun. This will thin the paint and allow it to "settle" or smooth out. Be very careful when doing this as it will be very easy to run or sag the paint. Remember light coats are better. 4. After the final coat leave the painting area until its well into its cure. Walking around the project or working near it will kick up dust and it will land in the wet paint. If you see a hair, bug or dust in the paint, leave it there. It is much easier to remove once the paint has dried. A little wet sanding and buffing and you will never have known it was there to begin with. Hope these help... -Jeff Hawkins Suwanee, Georgia RV-8 #563 Waiting for the wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PhilipR920 <PhilipR920(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Grand Rapids Technologies EIS
I am preparing to install the GRT Super EIS in my 6A. I planned to locate the unit at the top of the panel about eight inches from the right edge. I am concerned that the screen may not be readiable at this location/angle, and am considering modifying the panel to angle the unit. If anyone has experience with this unit, I would appreciate comments relative to visibility. Thanks, Phil Rogerson 6A 60057 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICHGREER <RICHGREER(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Strobes
I have the Whelen strobes with separate power supplies for each wingtip. Where is the best place for mounting the supplies. The outermost rib or on the spar itself. If mounting on the spar would the holes drilled into the spar weaken it? Any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks, R. Lindberg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Radio problems
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Hi out there !..Yesterday, I plugged in my head set to try my radio for the first time. Atis was extremely faint with volume all the way up. Pressing the mike button gave a loud click in the head set but there is no side tone. I did not want to try to transmit further since this can blow your radio if you have no proper antenna contact. A call to the radio man said that even with a hunk of wire stuck onto the cable that I should get a signal back and that there was most likely a short somewhere. Did I wire the jacks wrong and make a short or bad ground ? I don't know yet as I still had to fix that damn little double S piece of tubing that goes into the gascolator that was weeping gas...BTW, if you haven't gotten there yet, make sure you leave more that 4" of run between the firewall outlet and the gasc. inlet (especially if it is mounted in a standoff bracket) or you will have the greatest time trying to form a curving S twist in the tubing to match it up. But more to the point here...any ideas on the radio problem ?....Austin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Samuel Steele <steele(at)loyno.edu>
For Sale! Mc Cauley Aircraft Propeller 1C1 172/EM 7653 Model E-1493 Overhauled and Tagged Never Installed Asking $1,250.00 Please call: Milton Cook 104 Woodlawn Drive Carrier, MS 39426 (601) 799-2654 Sam Steele e-mail: steele(at)beta.loyno.edu Physics Dept. Machinist Loyola Univ. N.O. (504) 865-3646 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
>I had a very bad experience several years ago using Centauri without the >hardener. when spraying on a second coat the next day after the first >coat, the fresh coat caused the underlying paint to blister up in big >spots, probably 30% of the area was affected. My anguished call to the >DuPont Tech. Rep. brought the answer that Centauri should never be used >without the hardener. He had no answer for the fact that their technical >Lit. does not mention this. He claims that Centauri without hardener can >take up to 6 Mo. or longer to completely dry. If you are going to use >Centauri, please use the hardener, the finish will be harder, glossier, >and cure completely. As to "never" using Centauri without hardener, as a professional auto painter (back before I knew better) I used to paint all the time with Centauri. It is good paint. The #829 "gloss extender" was a good idea if you were painting in a less than dust free environment (garage?), or expected to top coat the job in less than 72 hours, such as adding stripes or re-shooting a panel with a run or sag. The instructions on Centauri clearly (used to) state that recoating after tack free was not a good idea unless you waited at least 72 hours. *ALL* synthetic and acrylic enamels dry in 2 stages. Stage #1 is solvent evaporation. This is what we see after 4-6 hours. Stage #2 is the binder curing by oxidation. This process can continue for *YEARS*. That is the reason the auto manufacturers bake their paint on right after spraying. They want to dry the paint per stage #1, and then promote binder oxidation per stage #2, all in 20 minutes. What the poly urethane additives like #829 do is to catalyze the reaction and promote "cross linking" of the molecules. This process speeds up stage #2 substantially, and produces a more chemically stable finished product. It effectively does what force drying does to non-catalyzed paint, and adds an "epoxy" type toughness to the paint. So when you paint your RV, I suggest that *ANY* enamel paint system be catalyzed rather than "air dryed" for maximum gloss and ease of repair. As to the HVLP problems, mix the paint to the manufacturers specifications, paint a test panel. Adjust gun first, the painter's technique second and then the reduction of the paint last. The #1 screw up that I saw with "amateur" use of paint products intended for trained professionals was poor mixing ratio control. If these people baked like they mixed paint, you couldn't eat what came out of the oven. The mix ratios on modern multi part paints are *VERY* critical. You are playing "mad scientist" when you add a little of this and a little of that to your paint instead of carefully mixing *EXACT* portions. 20+ years ago it was common practice to add a little reducer if you needed to. The paint was just 2 components then, now some systems are up to *5* components, and must be mixed per label instructions if "professional" results are to be expected. I have used my automotive paint experience to good use as an A&P. Lots of wheel pants and replacement surfaces have been painted "in the hangar" and came out looking better than new. Your RV can be a work of art if you will but read and follow the directions for the medium you are using. Any system can give good or bad results based on operator skill. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Strobes
Hi All, I mounted the power packs vertically, plugs down, on the rib, just forward of the spar using nut plates on the back of the rib. Installation came out very clean. You could put the packs on the spar, there's almost no stress at that portion of the spar, so a few mounting holes wouldn't hurt, but access would be limited. Laird RV-6 #22923, skining the turtledeck So Cal _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Mar 5, 1998 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Strobes
I have the Whelen strobes with separate power supplies for each wingtip. Where is the best place for mounting the supplies. The outermost rib or on the spar itself. If mounting on the spar would the holes drilled into the spar weaken it? Any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks, R. Lindberg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Strobes
<< I have the Whelen strobes with separate power supplies for each wingtip. Where is the best place for mounting the supplies. The outermost rib or on the spar itself. If mounting on the spar would the holes drilled into the spar weaken it? Any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks, R. Lindberg >> Think about repair access for a minute- how ya gonna get to 'em when they use up all their smoke? If you are using the Duckworks ldg lites (or other wing mounted types), mount the supplies on the fwd side of the spar, just inbd of the tip rib. Look at the huge (lightening) holes just inboard of these mounting holes- I wouldn't think you can hurt the spar with a few #8 holes near the tip... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Control Sticks
Fellow RVers, I brought home my friends RV-6A control sticks to ream and fit the bushings and install the control stick weldments. It's been so long ago since I did mine that I can't remember if the bushings are to pivot on the AN4 bolts (use drilled shank bolts and castle nuts) or if the control stick weldments are to pivot on the bronze bushings in which case the AN4A bolts would be torqued down on the bronze bushings. Couldn't seem to find any reference on this in the manual or on the plans. Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 canopy frame
I was having trouble after installing the compression tubes to hold the canopy open. They were trusting my canopy frame forward about an 1/8". A fellow builder told me to install a rivet in each of the F-646 where the flanges lap the firewall angle. That cured the shift. Another forehead slapper for me! Have a Great Day! denny h. RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: : Aircraft painting
In response to Bob Stewarts EXCELLENT post on paint curing, thanks Bob, that was a great post. Really enjoyed reading that. I've got some questions I'd like to run by ya in hopes of tapping into you years of experience. I am currently planning on using two part acrylic enamel from PPG for my plane. I have only used the acrylics in my paint excursions and feel pretty comfortable with them. My main reason is I have always been told that acrylics are much more repairable than polys. Any comments on the repairability of acrylics vs. durability of polys. Also, I have never done any striping. Could you give your sugestions on painting a two tone job. Say it was red over white. Would you recommend painting the whole thing white then masking for the red, or would you sugest I butt the colors against one another. Seeing this is a pretty time consuming thing, what is the normal time frame before the top coat (clear) has to be applied over both colors? Sure apreciate your comments on this, I would normally ask this off the list but I feel this is good stuff and most people would also enjoy reading this. Thanks again, Eric Henson Fuse on order, building control surfaces for wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Vacuum Fliter
How often should I replace my vacuum and vacuum regulator filters. Is it flight hours or calendar time? Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bstobbe(at)corotec.com
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Control Sticks
> >Fellow RVers, > I brought home my friends RV-6A control sticks to ream and fit the >bushings and install the control stick weldments. It's been so long ago >since I did mine that I can't remember if the bushings are to pivot on the >AN4 bolts (use drilled shank bolts and castle nuts) or if the control stick >weldments are to pivot on the bronze bushings in which case the AN4A bolts >would be torqued down on the bronze bushings. Couldn't seem to find any >reference on this in the manual or on the plans. Thanks, My understanding is that the bronze bushing is intended to be held stationary in the forked end of the assembly and the control stick weldment pivots on it. Bruce Stobbe RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Control Sticks
<< if the control stick weldments are to pivot on the bronze bushings in which case the AN4A bolts would be torqued down on the bronze bushings. >> I tried it both ways, and the above is how I did it. The other way had quite a bit of friction. I ground down the weldments so that the bronze bushing was longer and would be torqued down. I had to ream the bronze bushings and I had one weldment that needed to be reamed, or drilled out, I couldn't get the busing to rotate inside the weldment. I don't know if this is the right way to do it, but it how I did it and I like it! Bob Busick RV-6 Fremont CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: Control Sticks
Date: Mar 05, 1998
---------- > From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> "....if the control stick weldments are to pivot on the bronze bushings in which case the AN4A bolts would be torqued down on the bronze bushings." Bob, The above is the correct method. Been looking at some archived information. Your past notes are quite helpful. Bob RV-6 cowling San Antonio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Rich Tichy <fsi(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: props
Hi all, I 've asked about props for my RV-6 awhile back but before I plunk a large chunk of my allowence for a prop I was hoping someone out in RV-land could tell me if they have used a Pacesetter or Ted's custom prop. Of rhe 3 suppliers I did talk too, I'm leaning toward Paul Irbeck or Aymar-Demuth. Also has anyone used the "harmonic dampener" on their plane. Can anyone hold my hand alittle longer ? Rich Only 5% to go! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Control Sticks
<< I can't remember if the bushings are to pivot on the AN4 bolts (use drilled shank bolts and castle nuts) or if the control stick weldments are to pivot on the bronze bushings in which case the AN4A bolts would be torqued down on the bronze bushings. >> The sticks ride on the brass bushings and the bushing rides on the AN4 bolt. I had to torque and retorque my bolts just so until I got the feel that I wanted. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Control Sticks
<< I brought home my friends RV-6A control sticks to ream and fit the bushings and install the control stick weldments. It's been so long ago since I did mine that I can't remember if the bushings are to pivot on the AN4 bolts (use drilled shank bolts and castle nuts) or if the control stick weldments are to pivot on the bronze bushings in which case the AN4A bolts would be torqued down on the bronze bushings. Couldn't seem to find any reference on this in the manual or on the plans. Thanks, Bob Skinner >> I believe there is only one correct answer to this question and I had to make the mistake first and then fix it: Let the bushings extend, and torque the bolts down on them. The stick weldment pivots on the bushing, not the bushing on the bolt. This is why there is no need to cotter a castle nut on the bolt - no rotational force on the bolt; all is on the bushing which cannot move on the bolt because it is pinched into place. I didn't realize this and thought I should grind the bushings flush with the weldment... the "fix" later on was to grind away just enough of the weldment to again have a bit of bushing sticking out. The bolts can snug up the brackets enough to re-establish contact with both ends of the shorter bushings and all seems well. It was someone at Van's who told me I shouldn't have shortened the bushings in the first place. Bill Boyd final countdown.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: props
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Rich, I'm just a bit behind you on my construction. I've looked at the archives using "Aymar" as my search criterion, and have nothing but good comments on the prop. I'm leaning in the same direction. Bob San Antonio RV-6 Cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PILOT 8127 <PILOT8127(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: props
Rich, I use a *Pacesetter-200* prop with harmonic damper. Love it to death. Idles at 550 smoothly. 700 very smoothly. Looks good too, with 6 alternating (lite and dark) wood laminations. Pitch is 79 and pulls great up at 7500ft.! Flying on an RV-3. (160hp.) Gary and N5AJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Aircraft painting
Eric and all, Finally something I feel like I can help with. In a past life I've done a lot of custom painting on cars, motorcycles helmets, jetskis. I learned painting thru trial and error (lots of errors) painting my Formula I RC models, where you started the race based on the looks of your airplane. Talk about motivating. I too used PPG catalysized (sp?) enamals because of their toughness and ease of repair, along with a huge color selection. A few years back I converted over to using the PPG Delton Acrylic Urethane for all my paint jobs. I like the urethane much better. It shoots more like a Lacquer than anything else. It has a very fast tack time (thus less time to attract dust), shoots on very smooth, and flows out nicely. I think it is MUCH easier shoot to urethane than enamals. If you can get a good job on enamal, than you'll do just fine with urethanes. It is very easy to polish/repair Delton at anytime. I've heard (no experience though) that the Delthane finish is tougher, but cannot be polished easily. I'll be using Delton on my -6. As far as striping, ask yourself one thing. Do you want to carry around half of a paint job that isn't doing anything? I don't. It's estimated that a paint job can weigh 15 to 30 lbs. I've done everything I can to keep my airplane light. So I plan to butt the edges of the major colors. If I have a small accent strip, generally I just shoot that over the base color. If your shooting white and red, there's no real reason for a clear coat, except to add more weight. It can be shot just a glossy as a clear coat. If you chose colors that don't need clearcoating (colors that need clear are called basecoat/clearcoat finishes, like the really nice metallic colors) you don't need to worry about the time between different colors, or even a clear coat. As a matter of fact you should let the first color sit overnight before putting striping tape on that new paint. Be sure to use only good 3M "fineline" tapes for separating colors, and then thier general purpose masking tape to mask everything else. A lot of the cheaper masking tapes have really brutal adhesives that will attack anything, and transfer very quickly. The 3M tape is not so sticky and peels off nicely. You really don't want to cheap screw something so important. The second advantage to butting the colors is that you don't end up with a big step in the paint. It just takes a little longer. Drop me a note if you have addition questions. Best of luck, Laird in SoCal owens(at)aerovironment.com RV-6 22923 just ordering my finish kit, whoopee!!! Boy... does my wallet hurt! _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Mar 5, 1998 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: : Aircraft painting
In response to Bob Stewarts EXCELLENT post on paint curing, thanks Bob, that was a great post. Really enjoyed reading that. I've got some questions I'd like to run by ya in hopes of tapping into you years of experience. I am currently planning on using two part acrylic enamel from PPG for my plane. I have only used the acrylics in my paint excursions and feel pretty comfortable with them. My main reason is I have always been told that acrylics are much more repairable than polys. Any comments on the repairability of acrylics vs. durability of polys. Also, I have never done any striping. Could you give your sugestions on painting a two tone job. Say it was red over white. Would you recommend painting the whole thing white then masking for the red, or would you sugest I butt the colors against one another. Seeing this is a pretty time consuming thing, what is the normal time frame before the top coat (clear) has to be applied over both colors? Sure apreciate your comments on this, I would normally ask this off the list but I feel this is good stuff and most people would also enjoy reading this. Thanks again, Eric Henson Fuse on order, building control surfaces for wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: UFOBUCK <UFOBUCK(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
You interested in painting a 6A ?? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Paint (NOT primer) Question
<< seems to be quite durable though I don't know how the durability compares to some of the other slow drying polyurethanes. >> SNIP Above quote was about Imron paint. As far as durability goes, a friend of mine showed me a piece of Alclad that had been painted with Imron. He took the sheet and bent it at nearly a right angle, then bent it back and forth twice. The metal was very distorted, but the Imron showed no cracks or flaking. That was impressive. Jim Nice RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Pressure Sender Integrity...?
Date: Mar 04, 1998
What might be better is to run the engine until pressure is indicated, shut it down, slowly loosen the sender(s) while the pressure is still up to bleed out any air in the line, then tighten it back up. Start back up and check for leaks. This should work for both oil and fuel systems. Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA > >> is there a method for bleeding the line without >>a bleeder fitting? This and any other info be greatly appreciated as >>I'm getting ready to install both the FP and OP senders. >>Randall > >Randall, > > Loosen the fitting at the sender, wrap a rag around the sender/fitting and >safety wire the rag in place and run the engine to purge the possible air? > >Bob Skinner RV-6 400 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids Technologies EIS
From: jepilot(at)juno.com (J E REHLER)
I fly with the Grand Rapids Technology monitor and have found it to be very effective. It is mounted near the center of the panel at the top near eye level. I think it is important for it to be close at hand since you will be pressing the control button form time to time (including during flight) to bring up additional data on the screen (eg. OAT, remaining fuel) which are not usually displayed. I also have a bright red warning light (about 1 inch in diameter) beside the unit and also as close to eye level as possible which blinks when any preset parameter is reached. It really catches your eye. Also when a limit is reached or exceeded the unit changes screen to larger print and the function which has exceeded the limit also blinks. You have to acknowledge the warning by pushing an input button before it will return to the default screen. Having the unit near eye level allows you to quickly glance at it during takeoff to check your rpm, manifold pressure, etc. Each time you fill the tanks you must, of course, enter the fuel amount in the unit so it can calculate the remaining fuel based on your in flight fuel consumption. I find having it located close at hand facilitates all of these functions. All of my instruments are located on the left two thirds of the panel because I have a glove compartment in the right side, a very hand thing to store check list, flash light, sun glasses, etc. Regards J. E. Rehler RV6A flying, Corpus Christi, Texas, W5KNZ _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICHGREER <RICHGREER(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: index-List
list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: 200 hp IO-360
From: jerryinak(at)juno.com (Jerry C Paterson)
I am considering ordering an IO-360 A1B6 from Aero Sport in Kamloops B.C. Would be interested in how happy previous customers have been. Jerry Paterson Anchorage AK RV-8 80479 _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: QFA1 <QFA1(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 05, 1998
Subject: Footwells/rudder trim
NE1 have info on construction of RV-4 RCP footwells?? Is rudder trim possible thru a spring system to the rudder pedals or some other method?? Greg-RV4AV8R2B-Hughes//Fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: Bryon Timothy Maynard <bmaynard(at)communique.net>
Subject: Re: financing rv kits
I just refinance my RV-6A. NAFCO has the best rates. Very cooperative. They are also very familiar with Van's Aircraft. GreenTree Finacing has been a real pain. Gert wrote: > > Has anybody experience (good or bad) with financing an RV kit ?? > > Just about to order an -8 emp. > > Gert > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: props
Hello, Rich. I have a 150 rv-4. Not the slickest example around. I tried a felix prop 68x70. 145 cruise at 2500 rpm at 1000 ft. It was supposedly made for a glasair. Felix said I should be seeing 185 cruise with it. It would wind up to 3000 rpm. His props are about 500.00 new. Climb was decent, but overall performance was not good at all. I had a good Props inc. prop. It was a 68x67. 173 cruise at 2500 rpm at 1000 feet. It was a very nice prop with very many thin laminations. It was 700.00, including shipping. This prop was a great all around performer. I am using an older Warnke 70x72 I borrowed from a friend. It was made for a 180 hp plane. It does 160 cruise at 2500 rpm's at 1000 feet. Average performance, compared to the props inc. prop. My new sterba 68x72 will be here next week. I can't wait to check out it's performance. It is 520.00 including shipping. All these guys were super to talk to. Felix kind of changed his story every time I talked to him. Props inc. told me delivery would be 3 weeks, it took 6. Sterba said 3 weeks, it will be about 4. These speeds were taken from gps, 2 opposite directions, averaged, unknown temps. No gear leg intersection fairings. i hope this is a little help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 05, 1998
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net>
Subject: Painting
Thanks all for your responses on my question (NOT primer) and Ray Parker's. I didn't know there were that many polyurethanes out there. Maybe I'll buy a pint of a few and see which I like the most. A little expensive, maybe. But what's the first thing that catches people's eyes - that paint job, which I am going to do myself. And Scott, thanks for the info on the HVLP guns. I have been using a Croix and always get orange peel. I recall that I got better results using the old fashioned high pressure guns. I have noticed that I get a better flow if I put it on thick, but I HATE runs. More practice, I guess. And Laid in SoCal, I may just drop you a note. You seem to have a lot of good info. Keep those responses coming. Mike Robbins RV-8 #591 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAK124E <MAK124E(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: Re: My kit is here!
"unsubscribe" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Acrylic Enamel Hardeners - Isocyanates
Date: Mar 04, 1998
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0078_01BD47A2.634FF360" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BD47A2.634FF360 Recent posts have addressed the use of a hardener with Dupont Centari. = The acrylic enamel hardeners - also called gloss enhancers - contain = isocyanates. In my book, they nullify the main advantage of using = Centari instead of Imron, mainly reduced heath hazards. If you are going to spike your paint with a hardener, read the label = carefully, or better yet, call the manufacturer and request an MSDS = (material safety data sheet). The major risk with isocyanates is that = if you haven't sprayed them before, you don't know if you are one of the = unlucky few who have a low threshold to them. Maybe your buddy Joe at the airport ingests copious amounts of = isocyanates all the time and is still kicking, but there is a small = chance you could develop a respiratory reaction after the first few = molecules you breath (exaggeration, but you get the point!). =20 Be careful when you paint! Dennis (heath-conscious) Persyk 6A finishing kit Barrington, IL ------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BD47A2.634FF360 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
Recent posts have addressed the use of a = hardener with=20 Dupont Centari.  The acrylic enamel = hardeners -=20 also called gloss enhancers - contain isocyanates.  In my book, = they=20 nullify  the main advantage of using Centari instead of Imron, = mainly=20 reduced heath hazards.
 
If you are = going to spike=20 your paint with a hardener, read the label carefully, or better yet, = call the=20 manufacturer and request an MSDS (material safety data sheet).  The = major=20 risk with isocyanates is that if you haven't sprayed them before, you = don't know=20 if you are one of the unlucky few who have a low threshold to=20 them.
 
 Maybe = your  buddy=20 Joe at the airport ingests copious=20 amounts of isocyanates all the time and is still kicking, but = there is a=20 small chance you could develop a respiratory reaction after the first = few=20 molecules you breath (exaggeration, but you get the  point!).  =
 
Be careful when = you=20 paint!
 
Dennis (heath-conscious)=20 Persyk    6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
 
------=_NextPart_000_0078_01BD47A2.634FF360-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: financing rv kits
> >Has anybody experience (good or bad) with financing an RV kit ?? > >Just about to order an -8 emp. > > >Gert > I won't finance anything but a house!!!.... But that's another issue. > > Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Finishing up empennage- WINGS ON THE WAY!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Aircraft painting
Jim, I didn't put it in an attachment. It was a just a regular reply to a post. Nothing special. I'll send you copy just to you see if you can read it. Matt, what's up with this? Laird _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Fri, Mar 6, 1998 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
Would the person whose label is "Owens" please put his/her text in the note instead of an attachment? You may have some stuff I'd like to read. My reader chokes each time I try to read your notes via the attachments. Thanks! Jim Sears in KY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: seat cushions
I noticed there is an article in the RVator archives about what Mr. Van found most comfortable. If you don't have 18 years of the RVator (or however many it is now) I would be glad to fax it to you. Just give me a #. Eric Henson eric.henson(at)cendantmobility.com ---------- From: MAUROMA FLORA Subject: RV-List: seat cushions Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 4:49PM <> We are building an RV6 in South Africa and need some information about design and fabric for the seat cushions. We would appreciate any ideas in this regard. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Vacuum Fliter
How often should I replace my vacuum and vacuum regulator filters. Is it flight hours or calendar time? Hi Gary My Cessna service manual (100 series 1963 thru 68) states: 1) Vacuum relief valve garter-type filter each 1000 hrs. 2) Gyros, without a central air filter system, internal filters every 100 hrs. and whenever erratic or sluggish responses are noted with normal suction gage readings. 3) Gyros, with a central air filter system, change central filter every 500 hrs and whenever suction gage readings drop below 4.6 inches. Change internal filters (if installed) at overhaul. George McNutt, Langley B.C. 6A - Wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: William Fletcher <wfletcher(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: I changed IPS
please unscribe me from fletcher(at)polarnet.com thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rwbrv4 <Rwbrv4(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: Re: props
Jerry, buy a Hartzell new or used and never have to buy another prop. I' ve have friends with wood props that didn't last long with much xcountry flying. Rain, sand and other foreign objects are death to them. If you are going to be a fair weather weekend type flyer then use the wood prop. I have a 73" Hartzell on my 180 hp RV4. Rick Bell, Jr. RV4 N83RB "Margaritaville Air Express" Augusta, Ga. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Caldwell" <rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net>
Subject: Sealing/Caulking Rear Canopy Skirt
Date: Mar 06, 1998
When I built my sliding canopy, I had a very hard time getting the rear skirt to fit flush with the plexiglass canopy. I have in some places a very large gap between the canopy and the front edge of the rear skirt. I'm not as concerned with water leakage as with the possible increased drag. Has anyone tried sealing or caulking this area? If so, what type of sealant or caulk did you use?. What is the best way to mask off or protect the plexiglass forward of the gap being filled? Would really appreciate any ideas or suggestions. Thanks very much for the help. Ron Caldwell - Latter Part of Finish Stage (RV6A) rlcaldwell@utah-inter.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: Re: props
Hey Rick, What kind of #'s are you getting with that prop? Should fly in May... Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
Date: Mar 06, 1998
I'm so glad to hear that there are some real professional painters on the list. Maybe one of them can help with a potential misconception that I have. I read a post lately that stated that one didn't need to put a clear coat on top of some of the color coats. I was thinking that the clear coat would be to protect the color coats from oxidizing over time and from being beaten from the friction caused by our very fast aircraft. My thinking was that I should put on a clear coat or two in order to extend significantly the easiest paint job, the first one. Is this incorrect? Brian Eckstein 6A fuselage ---------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: props
Date: Mar 06, 1998
---------- > From: Rich Tichy <fsi(at)earthlink.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: props > Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 3:55 PM . Also has anyone used the "harmonic dampener" on their plane. > Can anyone hold my hand alittle longer ? > Rich Only 5% to go! Rich, I use a harmonic Dampner,plus the 12 pound ring on my 150 hp RV4. I've used them in combination for about 500 hrs. I've had no trouble with this setup and it has allowed me to carry 240 lb. passengers and stay within cg limits. Bill Nolen from Ark. advised me yrs ago about the rewards of this combination. I've got to be truthful and tell you that I saw no benefit in the installation of the harmonic balancer other than the ability to carry extra weight in the back without exceeding the cg limits. The theory behind the harmonic balancer is true and I'm sure that if I had had an unbalanced prop it would have cured any vibration caused by the unbalanced prop. The prop I use is a Warnke almost constant speed and it was just as smooth before I installed the harmonic balancer as it was afterwards. If you buy the balancer you can't be throwing your money away, especially if you have a RV4. If you do decide to buy a harmonic balancer I can testify that I found Mark Landoll to be honest, straightforward and I appreciate having the products he has supplied me with. I've had my prop for 6 yrs and have had no trouble with it. I do slow down to 2000 rpm in rain though. If you've got to buy a wood prop ( money in my case) I do have some advice. Buy the best. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Sealing/Caulking Rear Canopy Skirt
I used a product called "Lexel" to seal my canopy. It's safe to use on plexi, cleans up with Naptha or alcohol, is clear and paintable, and NOT silicone based. Good stuff. Used it on the recommendation of a Mooney owner who used it to seal his new windshield. Got it at the local Ace hardware store. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: seat cushions
From: pjl51(at)juno.com (Patrick J LaVigne)
To the people in South Africa, I bought an Aeronca Chief 1947. It is the plane I'm ready to get my ticket in. When I first started flying i couldn't even see the tops of trees over the cowl, only sky I replaced the 50 year old seats with foam out of a Cadillac front seat which i purchased for $5,00. I took the bottom and back foam to a lady who does upholstery, picked out a fabric (gray) and told her how much my butt had to be raised. She cut the foam down using an electric meat carving knife and not only can i see a bit over the cowl but the rough landings are much easer to take . I don"to know if any rv builders have tried this, but it worked for me Best wishes, Pat LaVigne Rochester, N.Y. (tooling up) P.S. find a junk yard, get dirty, save bucks. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
Hey Brian, I think what you are referring to is a one step paint in which you have the color mixed in with the clear coat and reducer. This is what I have the most experience painting (PPG Delstar acrylic enamel). It's a fairly easy paint process. You usually mix in a hardener which makes the paint flow out with a wet look that looks clear coated. You can wet (color) sand just as you can with a clear coat finish. The main obstackle I have run into with this process is that of mottling of the metallic particles due to cold temps in my garrage. This shows up as color stripes in the middle of your gun's spray pattern. You can use a faster reducer but then the job doesnt flow out as well. Using a two part finish where you first lay your color coat then lay on a clear coat can eliminate the mottling. There are lots of reasons to use the two part systems, it seems like the more hot rod paint systems go with the two part. My guess would be this is for better control of your color base. Both systems will give as good a paint job as the painter and his surroundings is capable of producing. If I was not dead set on a metallic job on my bird I would go with a one step poly paint. After looking at "Bounty Hunter", Tom Wheelan's very fast RV-4, I just have to add the sparkles. Anyone know if they make metallic poly yet? One thing, if you paint poly, beg borrow or steal a fresh air system. It can kill you. Legend has it a builder in Arizona died after getting overspray on his arm while touching up some small parts. Eric Henson Wangs ---------- From: B&S Eckstein Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Aircraft painting Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 8:10PM I'm so glad to hear that there are some real professional painters on the list. Maybe one of them can help with a potential misconception that I have. I read a post lately that stated that one didn't need to put a clear coat on top of some of the color coats. I was thinking that the clear coat would be to protect the color coats from oxidizing over time and from being beaten from the friction caused by our very fast aircraft. My thinking was that I should put on a clear coat or two in order to extend significantly the easiest paint job, the first one. Is this incorrect? Brian Eckstein 6A fuselage ---------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net>
Subject: Re: 72 inch prop
Im running a 71x76 Performance Wood Prop, I have no problems with clearance at all. I called Clark at Performance and told him what I wanted as far as performance from my airplane and he sent me exactly what I wanted the first time, guess I got lucky. -- Abby Razer Barbara Razer Molly the Dog and Chet Razer razer(at)midwest.net http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net>
Subject: RV-6 Kits for Sale
I'm posting this message for a friend, Please respond to his Telephone No. and not the list. RV-6 Complete Kit for Sale. Metal work near complete. Includes Warnke Prop and prop extension, Lights, Wiring, Instruments, Oil Cooler, Electrical Switches and most parts needed for completion. All components new. Needs 0-360 engine. $22,000.00 O.B.O. Call Bill: 618-758-2350 -- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RVator article
Rick and Barbara Osgood wrote: > > > In Frank Justice's manual, under the section for building the fuel > tank, > he notes an article in a past RVator on using a finger strainer > instead > of the recommended bent tube for fuel pickup. I would like to try this > > on my fuel tank but I do not appear to have this issue of the RVator. > I > am not even sure which issue it is in. > > If any one is willing, can the fax a copy of this article to me at > (612)942-6190. > > Thanks in advance > > -- > Rick and Barbara Osgood > Rick, These strainers are available in the accessories catalog. Ed Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: To Newsletter Editors
To RV-listers who also share with newletter editors. I got a call from Ken Scott at Vans to-day wanting some further detail on a construction posting I did on empennage fairings. He got it from a Minnesota newsletter, and I didn't even know it had been used....:^) Common courtesy would suggest at least asking permission first, (yes, I will grant it, and I am even willing to expand on the original posting if needed) ... and it would also be nice to keep the information flow 2-way and send me a courtesy copy of your newsletter, either electronically or by snail mail. This really is a small price (32 cents) to pay for an article! So my new RV-list e-mail signature now includes: "Newsletter Editors: Permission given to re-print if credit is given and a courtesy copy is sent to me." I know writing a newsletter is hard work, but _please_ be courteous and extend this request to ALL articles you 'borrow' from the RV-list, not just mine. It makes those few of us that put in time to make longer, and I hope more informative, postings more likely to keep it up. ... thanks ... ... Gil (would like to know where my postings go...:^) Alexander ------------------------------------------------------- mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: seat cushions
Date: Mar 06, 1998
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0040_01BD493E.C83D4320" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BD493E.C83D4320 For your consideration. My background was a career in AF fighters. So all of my flying was done = after stepping over a canopy rail. All of the a/c seat cushions had = greasy, oily foot prints on them (except an F-4 I picked up at the = plant). I didn't want that. I considered that very few parking ramps are grease/oil/tar free, that I = did not want to fly and keep my cushions grease free by driving myself = crazy as to where I step on the ramp or screwing around with a towel or = something to step on. If I got spots on the fabric, it would look bad = and very hard to get out. I am a height that I can not step over the canopy rail onto the floor in = the RV6, and damned sure can't get out of it with out stepping on the = seat. SO, I used nugahyde seats. A grease spot wipes off and the worst came = off with a little solvent. I did use some of the temperfoam in the seat. Considered it well worth = the extra money. But I feel sure that you will get other advice on this, so this is just = why I did what I decided on. John C Darby Jr. RV6 N61764 sold Stephenville TX =20 =20 We are building an RV6 in South Africa and need some information = about design and fabric for the seat cushions. We would appreciate any = ideas in this regard. ------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BD493E.C83D4320 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
For your consideration.
 
My background was a career in AF fighters.  So = all of my=20 flying was done after stepping over a canopy rail.  All of the a/c = seat=20 cushions had greasy, oily foot prints on them (except an F-4 I picked up = at the=20 plant). I didn't want that.
I considered that very few parking ramps are = grease/oil/tar=20 free, that I did not want to fly and keep my cushions grease free by = driving=20 myself crazy as to where I step on the ramp or screwing around with a = towel or=20 something to step on.  If I got spots on the fabric, it would look = bad and=20 very hard to get out.
I am a height = that I can not=20 step over the canopy rail onto the floor in the RV6, and damned sure = can't get=20 out of it with out stepping on the seat.
SO, I used nugahyde seats.  A grease spot wipes = off and=20 the worst came off with a little solvent.
I did use some of the temperfoam in the seat.  = Considered=20 it well worth the extra money.
But I feel sure that you will get other advice on = this, so=20 this is just why I did what I decided on.
 
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 N61764  = sold
Stephenville TX

 
We are building an RV6 in South = Africa and=20 need some information about design and fabric for the seat cushions. = We=20 would appreciate any ideas in this=20 regard.
------=_NextPart_000_0040_01BD493E.C83D4320-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa <BPattonsoa(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: Re: Painting
I did just what your are planning, sample different paints. I have painted one and one half airplanes in my career, a 15 meter sailplane, and a fues for the same. I have always used a good Binks sprayer, and a cheap Harbor Freight touch up gun. I tried using a HVLP on a major wing touch-up job last year. Was not happy with the results, a lot of Orange peal, sanded and buffed out. Used Delstar Acrylci Enamel with the catalyst, as recommended, and loved the paint. I did the trailer without the catalyst, to save money, and after 18 years it is in bad shape. For the -6A, I wanted to go with a Polyurethane. Tried Imron on the glider, which is why one wing is 10 lbs heavier than the other. Imron makes a good primer, with enough sanding. I purchased a quart of Randolph paints polyurethane in one of my planned trim colors. Shot it on a hunk of sheet alum with self-etching primer. The stuff went on very well, and set up and cured into a mirror finish, except for all the dust, bugs, etc. Then tried the torture test, bent, twisted, and abradded a strip of the painted alum. It did great, except when scrapped with a knife, the primer/aluminum bond failed somewhat easily. As a result I have purchased all my paint in Randolph Ranthane, including Epibond Epoxy primer, and their Rand-o-prep etching material, several gallons of acetone to remove the self-etching primer from the rivet lines on the outside, a Hobby-Air positive pressure respirator, Tyveck suit, etc. Will be building paint booth soon, and going at it. I was going with HVLP sprayer, but am willing to waste the extra paint on overspray. A good Binks gun does work well, and I know how to use it. Bruce Patton Annualing the HP-18 San Luis Obispo ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: Quick build kits
Date: Mar 06, 1998
I noticed the bulkhead right behind the baggage floor skins on the bottom of fuselage almost all of my rivets are barely protruding or are damaged from installation from factory any body else have same problem? Regards Mike Comeaux mcomeaux(at)cmc.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Trim Tab Hinge
Thanks to all who responded about my trim tab hinge pin. I haven't yet done anything, but as usual I now have so many ideas that I will spend more time deciding what to do than actually doing it! Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Finishing up empennage- WINGS ON THE WAY!! enough to reach the cockpit from the left elevator. I could be wrong...... :-) Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Finishing up empennage- WINGS ON THE WAY!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Painting....
I once had a painter friend who told me that painting a car is like holding a stick of dynamite in one hand and a lit match in the other. The closer together you get the two without lighting the dynamite, the better the paint job. This was to say that you want to lay it on as wet as possible so that it flows out smooth, but not quite so wet that it runs. "How do you know where that point is", I asked. He said, "Paint cars for 20 years." I, too will be painting my own plane. I can't wait!! Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Finishing up empennage- WINGS ON THE WAY!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 06, 1998
Subject: Re: Painting with Centari
I have used Centari on several projects (cars) and like it. I think you will want the hardener and a good Binks/Devillbiss gun---I have not seen any good work with this paint using the Croix type systems. I have had smoother results over Lt. Gray Corlar than over bare Variprime. If you use the hardener the Centauri can be buffed--color sanded to a fine finish. I think Centari does have a tendency to orange peel and to a very small amount I kinda like it (the orange peeling) . JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com>
Subject: Cowling rivets
Date: Mar 06, 1998
My 3/32" rivets that attach the piano hinges to the cowling have tiny cracks in the gel-coat radiating out from them. I assume this is normal and will not show through the paint. Am I right or have I screwed up somehow. I set them with a squeezer. Scott Sawby N341SS prepping for paint ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: seat cushions
Date: Mar 06, 1998
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD4946.4A2ACFE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD4946.4A2ACFE0 I patterned my seat cushion foam for my first RV from an article by Tony = Bingelis in Sport Aviation. The drawings for this can be found (as = amended by Ken Hitchmough) at = www.matronics.com/rv-list/hovan/cushion.html and will help if you intend = to build your own. My foam and material was purchased at a local = upholstery material distributor and the covers were designed/made by a = friend of a friend. I ended up re-doing some of it and learned how to = sew using an industrial sewing machine in doing so. Then I made some = side panels as well. In the end, I think the cost for the seat cushions = would approach what you can buy ones already made either by D. J. = Lauritzen at Cleaveland Tool or Becky Orndorf at GBI. So this is what I = plan to do for my current RV-6A project. Best wishes. Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA We are building an RV6 in South Africa and need some information = about design and fabric for the seat cushions. We would appreciate any = ideas in this regard. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD4946.4A2ACFE0 http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
I patterned my seat cushion foam for = my first RV=20 from an article by Tony Bingelis in Sport Aviation.  The drawings = for this=20 can be found (as amended by Ken Hitchmough) at www.matronic= s.com/rv-list/hovan/cushion.html=20 and will help if you intend to build your own.   My foam and = material=20 was purchased at a local upholstery material distributor and the covers = were=20 designed/made by a friend of a friend.   I ended up re-doing = some of=20 it and learned how to sew using an industrial sewing machine in doing=20 so.   Then I made some side panels as well.  In the end, = I think=20 the cost for the seat cushions would approach what you can buy ones = already made=20 either by D. J. Lauritzen at Cleaveland Tool or Becky Orndorf at = GBI.  So=20 this is what I plan to do for my current RV-6A project.   Best = wishes.
 
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
 

 
We are building an RV6 in South = Africa and=20 need some information about design and fabric for the seat cushions. = We=20 would appreciate any ideas in this=20 regard.
------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BD4946.4A2ACFE0-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 1998
From: Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Painting
BPattonsoa wrote: > etching material, several gallons > of acetone to remove the self-etching primer from the rivet lines on the Why do you remove the self etching primer from the rivet lines? Fram Malczynski RV6 (Wings) Olcott, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Subject: Re: Sealing/Caulking Rear Canopy Skirt
<< I used a product called "Lexel" to seal my canopy. It's safe to use on plexi, cleans up with Naptha or alcohol, is clear and paintable, and NOT silicone based. Good stuff. Used it on the recommendation of a Mooney owner who used it to seal his new windshield. Got it at the local Ace hardware store. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com >> Five weeks ago, I did the final installation on my windshield and canopy. I fabricated aluminum fairings for the windscreen per the article in the June '97 RVator. I used a 50 year sealant/caulk that's white but dries clear, cleans up with water, non-toxic, supposed to be superior to everything else, paintable, etc. The fairing overlaps the windscreen by 1 1/2". During installation I smeared a film of this stuff on the fairing, and riveted it in place. Well five weeks later, the sealant has dried around the edges and is clear, but in the center it is still white, and when I press on the fairing I can still see some of it squishing around. Will it ever dry? I don't know. But I wonder, all sealants and RTV's seem to rely on exposure to air to cure, if they're sealed up between two pieces of material, how could they ever cure? I'm really disappointed that I used this material, and am wishing I had just used pro-seal instead. Then I know it would have cured. I'm hoping to be able to set the fuselage out in the sun when the temps get warmer, and maybe with more time the sealant will finish curing. This has been my experience. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that this sealant cleans up with water, maybe other sealants would work ok, but this is what's happened to me. Mark LaBoyteaux MLaboyteau(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Subject: Re: 72 inch prop
<< I have been looking at the Sensenich web site and reading about their new fixed pitch prop for the Lycoming 180 hp engine. I wonder if a prop of that diameter would have a tendency to strike the ground when used on a RV-6A. Are their any listers who run a prop with blades that long on a RV-6A? Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont Fitting side skins to upside down fuselage >> I've got a new Hartzell C/S from Van's on my -6a, and according to the owners manual that came with it, it started out as a 74" prop, but has been reduced to a 72". I haven't flown it yet, but there seems to be plenty of clearance. Mark LaBoyteaux MLaboyteau(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Wire splicing
Jon, I don't have the electric trim, but I had the same situation with the taillight. I figured that I would want to be able to remove the rudder, so I put a connector at the fairing - recessed so the the connector from the fuselage wouldnt interfere. On hindsight, I should have made the connection inside the tailcone; I'm going to have to weatherproof the connection and deal with bending stress at the connector. For your application, if the wire will reach into the tailcone, I would use a slim connector and route it through a tube through the empennage so that you can snake the connection out should you need to remove the elevator or servo only. PatK - RV-6A Jon Elford wrote: > > What is the recommended method of splicing the small trim servo wires to > lengthen them? Solder/heat shrink tubing? Any suggestions? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft painting
22> >I read a post lately that stated that one didn't need to put a clear coat on top of some of the color coats. I was thinking that the clear coat would be to protect the color coats from oxidizing over time and from being beaten from the friction caused by our very fast aircraft. My thinking was that I should put on a clear coat or two in order to extend significantly the easiest paint job, the first one. Is this incorrect? >Brian Eckstein The Clear Coat is still paint. It still deteriorates in UV light and will still scratch just like solid colors. The 2 main reasons to clear coat are: The base color has no shine to it. Most modern systems are like this, and the base is just color. Originally it was just the metallics which needed the Clear, now several systems need clear to have any shine. Adding gloss and "depth" to the paint. If you have several colors, and they are striped over a base like we normally do on the planes, then clear will allow you (with proper technique) to flush the edges so that it is smooth. This is especially critical when the stripes are span wise. The little 0.003" lip of each stripe is a perfect trip for the boundary layer, and will kill lift. This results in a poor climbing, strange stalling plane. Other than these 2 reasons, one should *AVOID* clear coat process in aircraft. Especially if you don't have a hangar! Just wander through the parking lot at your favorite grocery store and look at the tops and hoods of 10 year old cars with metallic paint. See all the dull white stuff and flakes coming off? This is the clear coat giving up the ghost. The fix? Sand it *ALL* back off and repaint. As to the "friction" of extremely fast aircraft, it isn't that which kills that paint. As you fly higher you expose the paint to high intensity UV radiation which breaks down the paint, and minute particles of dust in the air "sand blast" your prop and leading edges. Don't belive the UV light hurts your paint? Visit Denver and then a city at or near Sea Level. Whose cars look the worst? Paints designed for aircraft (Alumigrip, Jet-Glo, etc.) are more abrasion resistant that your run of the mill polyurethane paints. (They also dry slowly so that the painter can get all the way around the plane and still "melt in" the overspray. (Start at the nose of a 747 and paint all the way to the tail and back up the other side, and then try to get the paint to look slick where the two coats overlap at the nose...) Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: seat cushions
>We are building an RV6 in South Africa and need some information about design >and fabric for the seat cushions. We would appreciate any ideas in this regard. >For your consideration. All of the a/c seat cushions had greasy, >oily foot prints on them (except an F-4 I picked up at the plant). I >didn't want that. >John C Darby Jr. FWIW, Both my Grummans have sliding canopies which means entry and exit is very similar to RVs. The seat cushions "flip up" which allows the cushion to be picked up with your toe, and then it flops back down after your foot is out of the way. I never sit on a "greasy, oily foot print"! In the AA-1B the whole seat bottom is hinged and lifts up. In the AA-5A, the cushion lifts and the "pan" that supports it remains stationary. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 06, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: 72 inch prop
I am running a 72inch on my 6A. It is the Hartzell that Van sells. The clearance is about the length of my shoe, which is about a foot (Pun intended). It certainly does look close to the ground to me and should be a consideration in your prop selection. I feel that my 'dings' are more numerous than the RV-6s with Hartzells whose props I look at but so far (160 hours) nothing that needs to be filed. BTW if Sensinich had the 72 incher when I was buying a prop I would have gone for it in a heartbeat. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry E.\"Bud\" Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)gate.net>
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids Technologies EIS
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Mine is located lower left panel and is easily read and manipulated bud hawkins N400BH flying (18 hrs now) ---------- > From: PhilipR920 <PhilipR920(at)aol.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Grand Rapids Technologies EIS > Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 10:21 AM > > > I am preparing to install the GRT Super EIS in my 6A. I planned to locate the > unit at the top of the panel about eight inches from the right edge. > I am concerned that the screen may not be readiable at this location/angle, > and am considering modifying the panel to angle the unit. > If anyone has experience with this unit, I would appreciate comments relative > to visibility. > Thanks, > Phil Rogerson > 6A 60057 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry E.\"Bud\" Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)gate.net>
Subject: Re: Grand Rapids Technologies EIS
Date: Mar 07, 1998
I too have and EIS installed and am very happy with it. The RPM is right on with the Mech tach, once you set up the scale factors every thing works fine. When a lit is exceeded the lamp flashes and the page is pulled up and the item flashes. You ack and take care of the problem... You will like it. Bud Hawkins N400BH check this www.mindspring.com/~jah/rv-8/dad's_rv-6.htm ---------- > From: J E REHLER <jepilot(at)juno.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Grand Rapids Technologies EIS > Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 8:10 PM > > > I fly with the Grand Rapids Technology monitor and have found it to be > very effective. It is mounted near the center of the panel at the top > near eye level. I think it is important for it to be close at hand since > you will be pressing the control button form time to time (including > during flight) to bring up additional data on the screen (eg. OAT, > remaining fuel) which are not usually displayed. I also have a bright > red warning light (about 1 inch in diameter) beside the unit and also as > close to eye level as possible which blinks when any preset parameter is > reached. It really catches your eye. Also when a limit is reached or > exceeded the unit changes screen to larger print and the function which > has exceeded the limit also blinks. You have to acknowledge the warning > by pushing an input button before it will return to the default screen. > Having the unit near eye level allows you to quickly glance at it during > takeoff to check your rpm, manifold pressure, etc. > > Each time you fill the tanks you must, of course, enter the fuel amount > in the unit so it can calculate the remaining fuel based on your in > flight fuel consumption. I find having it located close at hand > facilitates all of these functions. All of my instruments are located on > the left two thirds of the panel because I have a glove compartment in > the right side, a very hand thing to store check list, flash light, sun > glasses, etc. > > Regards > J. E. Rehler RV6A flying, Corpus Christi, Texas, W5KNZ > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Subject: 18 Years of the RV-Ator progress
To the 50 or so people who have pre-ordered 18 Years of the RV-ator, here is a progress report: The body of the book is done (360 pages). Just a few small details remain and we expect it to go to print by the end of this week. The printer then wants 10-14 days to complete the job, so deliveries to you will happen during the last week of March. The books will continue to be GBC comb bound at your nearly unanimous request. For those yet to order; the discount pre-order price of $27.95 will apply through March 20. After that, the full price takes affect. 96-97 update pages - Pages to update your 16 year books to the current version will be begun in a few weeks and should be available sometime in April. Andy Gold Winterland Publications RV-ation Bookstore - www.rvbookstore.com 970-887-2207 970 887-2197 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Subject: Re: Props: growing your own
>Has anyone carved their own prop for RV use or ever considered doing so? Hey, Jerry: Yikes. The RV series is a unique family of aircraft in that they go so fast and so slow: i.e., they have a wide range of airspeeds a prop has to handle. That is why there is only one metal fixed pitch prop currently available and that is restricted in RPM. The prop growers that are around today are producing some really good props (Demuth, Warnke, etc.) and have carved many a prop to get it close to right. And still have to recarve some to fine tune them. It would be fun to hack around on a prop you made yourself but would add to the frustration/building time. And, when your airplane is inspected for flight testing, it is with the prop on it at the time of the inspection. If you change props, you are SUPPOSED to notify your inspector and jump through more hoops. Is all that worth it? Maybe. My Warnke prop is BEAUTIFUL and performed well right out of the box. There has been some suggestion that wood props are for local fairweather flying only. Ask Dick Rutan how his wood prop handled his recent flight around the world. In around the world weather. On the BACK of his airplane. Are metal props more durable, less maintainance? No doubt. And some folks have said the cost of the metal will equal the two or three woods you go through to get it right. Maybe. I really like mine, but again, it was good from the first. (Kelli says: get two: when you take the prop off the mantel to install it, you will want another for the mantel, it is so pretty.) You do have to pamper the woods (reduce RPM in rain, maintain proper torque, etc) but there are MANY pulling RV's around.. I run the Harmonic Balancer and, man is it smooooooooooooth. I like what it did for the weight-and-balance (moved it forward) and how the engine doesn't "slam to a stop" like it looks like it does when you just have the wood prop alone and shut the engine down. PROPS: another "P" word, and everyone has their favorite. I agree with the note "get the best". Go with someone used to RVs and not pie-in-the-sky claims. It's not that building your own wouldn't be a cool thing to do, but there is a certain amount of Black Magic that goes into it and the witch propers out there have the knack. AND: you want something you know will stay on the airplane. Keep building. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Formative Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: props
Date: Mar 06, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: Jerry Isler <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 10:57 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: props > >Listers, > >Has anyone carved their own prop for RV use or ever considered doing so? >Jerry Isler >RV 4 # 1070 >Donalsonville, Ga. > Jerry, I have been to the Ed Steba and Felix propeller forums at Sun&Fun and have read articles on prop making. I think the requirements for making your own prop are: 1) Tilt arbor table saw or band saw (depending on technique used) 2) Good knowledge of laminating wood 3) Good wood "carving" skills, especially with a spoke shave 4) Ability to duplicate a curve form with templates (to get both blades symmetrical) 5) Drill press and good layout technique for bolt centers I am buying a constant speed prop but I think making my own would be fun. I doubt that I would get the performance or lifetime with my homemade prop, but it would be interesting. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Barrington, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rwbrv4 <Rwbrv4(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Subject: Re: props
Carey, I generally true (tas) between 198 and 205 MPH at 8000' at 2300 RPM with wide open throttle (about 21 or 22 inches if my memory serves me correct), and maybe a little better tas at 10000' +. These figures have been checked by GPS etc. At lower altitudes I always cruise at 23 "mp and 2300 rpm seems to be best economy for my O-360A1F6D. It does real well on what I call long crosscountry trips. IE Augusta Ga. to Greyslake IL. (Chicago), Augusta to Key West, Lakeland Fl, New )Orleans etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Subject: Re: Wire splicing
<< What is the recommended method of splicing the small trim servo wires to lengthen them? >> If you find you need to splice these wires, the recommended method would probably be the installation of moisture proof splices. These are sold by Ray-Chem, and should be available through an electrical supply store. Be sure to ask about equiptment necessary to make the splices also. They are strong, and the moisture seal will make them last. Jim Nice RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 1998
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
Subject: Electronic Ignition by Empire Development
Does anyone have an electronic ignition from Empire Development Corp of Redondo Beach, CA, installed and operating? In my mailout the price is $385...$95 more for a deluxe model with internal knock sensor...my mailout may be dated. Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX RV-6A still working the cowl ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 1998
Subject: Re: props
From: tcastella(at)juno.com (Anthony J Castellano)
I noticed that you are using a Lycoming O-360A1F6D. I have the same model with a little over 800 hrs since new that I plan to use in my RV-6. Are you using the single drive dual Bendix magneto? The guy I bought my engine from lost the magneto, so I plan to use a single Slick mag with impulse coupling and an electronic ignition for the second set of plugs. I am also thinking of installing a Airflow Performance fuel injection system. I am eager to hear your comments and would appreciate any advice you can offer. Regards, Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig) _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 07, 1998
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Wire splicing
You know, you can buy shrink tubing with adhesive on the inside. This not only seals it waterproof, it is also a very good strain relief of your joint. Gert JNice51355 wrote: > > > > << What is the recommended method of splicing the small trim servo wires to > lengthen them? >> > If you find you need to splice these wires, the recommended method would > probably be the installation of moisture proof splices. These are sold by > Ray-Chem, and should be available through an electrical supply store. Be sure > to ask about equiptment necessary to make the splices also. They are strong, > and the moisture seal will make them last. > Jim Nice > RV6A


February 27, 1998 - March 07, 1998

RV-Archive.digest.vol-ei