RV-Archive.digest.vol-eo
April 13, 1998 - April 23, 1998
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Database Update |
Have you thought about making the database available via your
website? If you don't already have a website set up, your ISP
should allow you to put a moderate sized one on their disk.
--
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gauge Quality: was Tweaking RV-6 and me (long) |
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
> What about some of the gauges used in non flying machines such as super high
> dollar ambulances and fire trucks? I understand that VDO is a top name. In
> auto stuff catalogs such as Summit Racing, VDO gauges are $30 and up and
> senders under $20.
>
Hal & List
VDO guages do not torerate vibration very well (what racers tell me). AutoMeter
might be a better choice, it's what all the race car builders use. The price is
close to lower cost aviation guages.
Keith Warfield
RV-6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Shot in the Dark |
Im trying to get the E-Mail address of the Signatore "Check Six".
Check six, could you pleeze respond. I would like to communicate
with you off the net.
Thanks
LKDRV8Wannabee
B747400(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Strong, Colin" <colin.strong(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Crash in South Dakota |
________________________________________________________________________________
"Aamold bought the plane from a man in Oklahoma who advertised the Raven
craft
on the Internet"
So I assume that it was a Raven craft.
Our local paper (Minneapolis) reports two people from Woodbury, MN died in
an
experimental plane crash in South Dakota. No date or type given. Does anyone
know the type or info of this crash??
Thanks
Rick Osgood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
Just curious, why wouldn't you pick electric flaps in the first place? Is there
some advantage to manual flaps, or is this like a tail/nosedragger thing?
Moe Colontonio
paul lein wrote:
>
> I had a one hour lesson with Mike Seager last Friday in "old blue." It
> was a wonderful experience but I am re-evaluating my decision to use
> manual flaps in my almost completed 6a. (Mike strongly recommends
> electric flaps.) I have built the manual flaps with the flap lever
> shortened a few inches as Van's recommends. My wife and I have been able
> to sit in our fuselage and make motor sounds and I find the flap lever
> more awkward to reach, now that the interior has everything in it, than
> it was at first. Are there any RV Listers who have flown both and would
> like to share advice? It would be very easy to convert my plane to
> electric flaps at this point, on the other hand maybe I should wait until
> I have flown with the manual flaps for a while.
> Thanks in advance,
> Paul
> 90% done, 90% to go in Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <hyde(at)bcl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: electric vs vaccum ag & dg |
>
SNIP
>my local FAA guy has indicated he has a problem with letting my microEncoder
>serve as the only altimeter on my ship... so I had to send some documentation
>and put him onto the Hillsboro FSDO which signed off the prototype RV-8 to
fly
>with just such an all-electric panel. Someone lost an alternator in that
>plane at night and had to use GPS for speed and altitude... gosh, at least I
>already have an analog airspeed in my panel... but I didn't want to duplicate
>the altimeter- just not that critical for visual flight... FAA guy says
"what
>if you fly into scud - we all do..." and I said (politely) "speak for
>yourself... won't catch me in no scud without a functional or redundant
>electrical system!" So he's thinking it over. Why do these hitches have to
>surface at the last minute?!
>
SNIP
I've been fascinated with the MicroEncoder approach (even breadboarded an
airspeed/altimeter myself), in the interests of simplifying the instrument
panel and lowering costs while making it easier to fly the plane. I think
all those dials and needles are more confusing than they need to be -- it
took me a while to get used to the airspeed needle moving downward when I
went faster (at least in the near-stall range where it's most important).
That intimidating and confusing mess of dials and gauges may be very macho,
but I don't believe that they contribute to safety.
The MicroEncoder spec says it only needs about 600-700ma, which a stack of
alkaline D-cells should be able to supply until your fuel runs out. Would
the FAA buy that as a redundant power supply? The breadboard I built was a
little less power-hungry, but it ran almost an hour on one of those little
rectangular 9-volt transistor batteries.
What I would like (and if I had the $$$ to take the time, would love to
build it), is a complete set of VFR instruments in a single electronic box
at a price that normal people could afford to install two for redundancy.
I think it could be done -- the Rocky Mountain stuff comes tantalizingly
close, IMO.
Don Hyde
Quincy, IL
6A, Tools ordered, order tail as soon as I can unload the boat...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | electric vs vaccum ag & dg |
Bob,
Could you use one of B & C's dynamo's on the vacuum pad as a backup
without having a second battery?
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [SMTP:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 6:58 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: electric vs vaccum ag & dg
In amateur built airplanes, dual alternators also call for
dual batteries . . . totally independent electrical systems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
Normally, I prefer the simplicity and reliability of mechanical over
electrical systems. Like a lot of us, my flight training was in
Cessnas, and after flying both old C-172s with the "johnson bar" flaps
and also the newer ones with electric flaps and all their various
crummy unreliable switches, I was a staunch believer in manual flaps.
But after the first few hours in a manual flap RV-6, I realized that
the geometry makes all the difference. In the C-172 the handle is way
down on the floor and there is plenty of leverage to pull it up. On
the RV, it's much closer to your hip, your co-pilot, and the seat-
back, so it can be pretty awkward. Plus while you are hefting this
thing with your right arm and some of your body, your left hand is on
the stick of a very responsive aircraft, so the tendency for pilot
induced oscillations is greater.
Bottom line is, I strongly recommend the electric flaps on the RV-6.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing wiring |
Rob or other 8ers
Nearly ready to rivet skeletons together but I need to know tried and true
location of wiring conduit and also pitot line. Manual gives suggestions but
I know someone must have measurements that best avoid problems later.
When do I need to install fuel senders?
Also any other hints or "If I had it to do overs" I would like to hear them.
Thanks loads in advance,
Dennis Clay, 8 #80473
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | elevator rib cracks |
Elevator builders:
The left elevator root rib (E-605) supplied with my kit had cracks about
3/32 long in the web between the skin flanges and spar flange. I guess
its not a problem because of the strength of the steel horn (WD-605) but I
removed metal with a rotary file without violating rivet edge distance. I
cant see any cracks in the assembled right elevator but the view is
restricted by the horn.
John Bright, SME Hampton Roads, Va, USA, 217 Bulletin and Home Page Editor,
john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, 757-875-7324,
http://chapters.sme.org/217/homepage.htm
SME members: Please send your e-mail address to records(at)sme.org, ref your
member number.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
<< Just curious, why wouldn't you pick electric flaps in the first place? Is
there
some advantage to manual flaps, or is this like a tail/nosedragger thing? >>
Manual flaps are just for those that (1) have a profound distrust of
electrons, believe that the electric flaps will surely fail fully deployed for
landing and they have to do a go around,(2) have a Popeye-like arm, or (3)
have a phallic attraction to the handle.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott) |
I am looking for a prop again. If any one has a good performing
used prop for a 150-160 h.p. -4, let me know please. I ordered
one from Sterba almost 2 months ago. He told me 2 weeks, it
took 4. The first prop was way out of wack. I called him back
with the performance figures and he said he would cut me a new
one and rush it to me in 2 weeks. I waited 3 weeks and called
him this morning. He said he hasn't started it yet, as he has
been trying to get other props ready for people to get to
sun-n-fun. I don't know how he figured I wasn't going, but, I
just wish people would stand by what they tell you. I have been
waiting almost 2 months, with probably another month until I get
another prop from him for a second try. I would be happy to get
a good used one if anyone has a good one. Thanks. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Gold Tint Update |
I spoke with John at Aero Sound Sheild today. He just got back from
Van's...I guess they had a successful meeting about providing a coating
mentioned in previous threads. He informed me that it would be in the
$600-$900 range if they had some quantity to do. Not cheap...they will
also sell the film (similar to window tint) for $36/linear foot. It comes
on a 36" roll. It may be applied in two pieces by a very skilled tint
person...we'll have to see...I am talking with a close friend of mine who
is an expert at window films and tinting, and he is going to run some test
on it to see the managability of the film, and if it could possibly be
applied in one piece, if one did not want to pay the $600-900 range for the
vacuum adhesion.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)
Rudder and controls (and whatever I can find to work on)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
paul lein wrote:
>
Paul, I have flown both with manual and electric flaps in my RV-6A, and
would never go back to manual because you cannot (or at least I am not
strong enough to) release the push button with one hand if you need to
go around in a "tight" situation - the back pressure exerted up through
the flap linkage really pins the flap into the detent (notch) - you need
both hands to release it, and if you are in a rough situation you cannot
leave the stick alone - I couldn't and the electric eliminates that
danger. Also the electrics give you infinite control of the amount of
flap deployment you want - zero throu 40-degrees. Go with the electric.
120Hrs on my RV-6A tells me this is the way to go - also you get rid of
the darn long flap handle between people. Have fun!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | electric vs vaccum ag & dg |
>
>Bob,
>
>Could you use one of B & C's dynamo's on the vacuum pad as a backup
>without having a second battery?
>
>Ken Harrill
>RV - 6, fuselage
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III [SMTP:nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 1998 6:58 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: electric vs vaccum ag & dg
>
>
> In amateur built airplanes, dual alternators also call for
> dual batteries . . . totally independent electrical systems.
Sure. In fact, I just got out of a meeting where we're getting the
B&C SD-20 installed on the A-36 Bonanza and it will still have only
one battery . . . of course we call the second alternator a "stand-by"
alternator. Further, no electrical gizmo is so crutial to flight
that the airplane comes spiraling out of the sky when the breaker
pops. My earlier post was a poor choice of words. Sorry 'bout that.
I should have said when dual alternators are installed for fully
rudundant elecrical systems, the second alternator should get it's
own battery.
Of course, the second alternator/battery combo can be different
size . . . like Dean Hall's RV-4. I think he's got an L60/24 a.h.
for the main and an SD-8/6 a.h. for the redundant system. It may
be a subtle point but without a second battery, the second alternator
is just standby for the first and there are single points of failure
than can bring everything down.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | wet vacuum pumps |
The recent thread regarding vacuum vs electric gyros raised a few
questions in my mind. Why aren't wet vacuum pumps the norm?
What are the disadvantages?
Do they fit the standard drive pad for vacuum pumps on our Lycomings?
Where do you get them and how much do they cost?
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Tichy <fsi(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Wentworth Aircraft |
Randy
I got my engine from Wentworth Aircraft. I saw an add in Trade A Plane,
called Wentworth and talk to Jim. He told me about the engine and said
they sell every
thing as is. This engine had all the logs and everything. When I asked how
much the delivery would be, $175.00 was the price. I bought the engine.
Two days latter I got a call saying they had a truck going to Mi.to pick up
an airplane and would I be home on such and such a day as they would drop
my engine off as they would be within 5 miles of my place. I said how much
will that cost me? How about dinner for the driver? Sure OK.
When I received the engine, one of the spark plug was striped in its cylinder.
I called Wentworth, more than alittle upset. Jim sent another complete
cylinder, next day air, at no charge.
I can only tell you that I will buy another engine from them.
If you have any questions, I'll be glad to help you out.
Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tweaking RV-6 and me (long) |
Austin:
I think you might just help dispel the myth that you need to be some sort of
macho super pilot to fly an RV. Seriously, I think that anyone with a
little dual, especially if they have time insomething like a J-5, should be
anble to handle an RV. If a person as no tail wheel time they should get if
it necessary (not flying a -6A) but other thatn that I find my -4 a joy to
fly and I only had about 125 hours when I soloed mine....
Richard
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing wiring |
If you plan on installing a wing leveler under the seat like is suggested
for my -6, you should beware. I used George Orndorff's suggestion, one inch
down and 9 back of the spar. Guess where this comes through the fuse.
Nearly a bulls eye.
Tom -6 fuse skinning.
-----Original Message-----
From: DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, April 13, 1998 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 wing wiring
>
>Rob or other 8ers
>
>Nearly ready to rivet skeletons together but I need to know tried and true
>location of wiring conduit and also pitot line. Manual gives suggestions
but
>I know someone must have measurements that best avoid problems later.
>
>When do I need to install fuel senders?
>
>Also any other hints or "If I had it to do overs" I would like to hear
them.
>
>Thanks loads in advance,
>
>Dennis Clay, 8 #80473
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Has anyone done business with Central Air Parts Inc. ?
Any responses appreciated.
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: electric vs vaccum ag & dg |
> I went back through my log books and found 9 pump failures. All
> were dry pumps.
[snip!]
> The wet pump on my RV4 had 3000 hours on it
Ok so someone clue me in. By all accounts that I've heard, wet pumps
are much more reliable than the dry pumps. So why get a dry pump?
What are the pros and cons? Are there special installation issues for
wet pumps? Why are there so many more dry pumps than wet in the
catalogs? I only see "Pesco" and "Garwin" overhauled units in the
catalogs (Chief and Wag-Aero, respectively). Why no new wet pumps for
sale? Any recommended brands and sources for same?
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Airborne vac pump fittings |
| From: | rvsixer(at)Juno.com (michael d hilger) |
If you are assembling the bits and pieces for your vacuum system
and need those expensive airborne fittings ($50-75 on up), don't order
the 1K8-6-8 elbow ($4.50) from Wag-Aero.
They just told me they can't get 'em, so we'll have to cruise the salvage
yards or bite the bullet...
Mike Hilger
RV-6 Systems installation
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
> Just curious, why wouldn't you pick electric flaps in the first place? Is
there
> some advantage to manual flaps, or is this like a tail/nosedragger thing?
There have been a few other responses to this question, but I think they
don't quite hit the point.
1. Manual flaps are more reliable
2. They work properly during an electrical failure
3. #1 leads to reduced maintenance expense
4. There's some advantage to being able to feel the stress you are putting
on the flaps instead of just toggling a little switch.
However, that lever WILL get in the way. On the -4, the rear passenger's
foot & leg are over the lever, and it can get quite difficult to pull in
the first 10 degrees if the guy in back isn't sufficiently flexible to
get out of the way. (This from personal experience: I'm the guy who
wasn't sufficiently flexible.) On the -6, the lever takes up room between
the seats -- room that could have been used for other things, like the
all-important pop holder.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello List:
It's me again with another rudder question. I have built the
fixture for construction of the rudder using the provided v-blocks
making sure that I have used those that are designated for the rudder.
The plans show on sheet 8-pp that the distance between these v-blocks needs
to be 39 1/2 inches. After setting my rudder skin into the fixture, I
see now that the prepunched holes for riveting the two ribs are covered
up by these v-blocks.
If I move the v-blocks closer together to clear the prepunched
holes, I cannot figure out how to get the TE of the rudder skin to be
parallel to the work surface, as is asked for in figure 6-3pp. Why does
this TE have to be parallel to the work surface? Seems to me that if I
get the v-blocks perpendicular to the center line of the fixture and at
90 degrees to the centerline, won't that ensure a straight rudder? What
did everyone else do here? My plan would be to get the v-blocks as
close to the tip and bottom of the rudder without covering up the
prepunched holes, make sure everything is square in the fixture, and
have at it.
Once again, thanks for all the help.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV 6A ser. no 25171 rudder
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gauge Quality: was Tweaking RV-6 and me (long) |
I had 6 each 2 1/4" Mitchell (VDO-modified with a aircraft style face)
gauges in my first -6A and had no problems with them in 350+ hours.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>> What about some of the gauges used in non flying machines such as super
high dollar ambulances and fire trucks? I understand that VDO is a top
name. In auto stuff catalogs such as Summit Racing, VDO gauges are $30 and
up andsenders under $20.
> Hal & List
>VDO guages do not torerate vibration very well (what racers tell me).
AutoMeter might be a better choice, it's what all the race car builders use.
The price is close to lower cost aviation guages.
>Keith Warfield
>RV-6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | Equipment review at 100 hours |
C-GDOC first flew back in June 97, and I am now up to 115 hours, with no
serious problems. I thought it might help and encourage those in the
earlier stages to review the extra equipment fitted.
Navaid Wing Leveller. I love it. I mounted it on a small tray under the
passengers feet, so it operates at the base of the passengers control
column. Once it is switch on, it takes over the flying, and the line on my
GPS becomes straight. It will track to the GPS, but I have not found this
necessary. Trim is very sensitive, and for turns, it will hold a constant
turn very accurately. The main advantage is that it does not get tired, and
even in bumpy weather it gives a very fast response. While there are
instructions for adjustments, mine worked right out of the box. It even had
Left and Right correct - which was a 50 : 50 chance. If I was to be nit
picky, the knobs are very small, and hard to use in rough weather.
GPS. I have the Garmen Pilot lll, and I would not leave home without it. It
is magic. It will even bring me down to the threshold. Other makes may work
as well. I had a problem - I dropped it, and the antenna came a bit loose,
I returned it and they sent another one by return mail - with a small
charge for the update. I have made a bracket so the GPS is mounted to my
left, easy to read or adjust, yet it clears the canopy. The sort of bracket
they sell for Cell Phones might be better. I saw just the one at Oshkosh,
called a "RAM" holder. I gave them a cheque, but despite monthly phone
calls, and frequent promises, it never arrived. Say "Hi" to them for me if
you see the booth this year.
Fuel Flow Meter. I bought a Fuelscan from our illustrious RV-List Maestro,
Matt. I installed it, just as the instructions said. It is meant to be in a
straight part of the fuel tubing, so it is under the pilot's seat, mounted
on a small bracket attached to the floor. It worked right away. There is a
constant read out of fuel flow, in units of your choice. Canada uses
litres, but I am still on gallons. Then at the touch of a button, it will
read gallons used, much more accurately than the Mickey Mouse fuel gauges.
The next button is fuel remaining, and the next one, how much longer flight
at this rate of consumption. When I fill up, I note "Fuel used", and the
amount put in the tanks is always exact, to 1/10 gallon. If it were not
correct, it can easily be adjusted. After a fill up, it can be re-set to 38
gallons. I think it is a very good investment.
(By the way, I have no affiliation with Matt -or anyone else)
AvMix. This gadget tells you exactly when the mixture is correct. Using
auto technology, it measures oxygen level in the exhaust, and lights up
when it is 14%. Hence you just lean out till the light comes on, then
enrich the mixture just enough to put the light out. I reckon I save a
gallon and hour - so this item will pay for itself. The sensor is affected
by lead, so needs replacing periodically. Aircraft Spruce have them.
I think that is all. I will be a Sun n Fun for the first 2 or 3 days,
parked with the other RVs, and I will be glad to show you my bird.
BTW - landing the RV 6A is very easy, but don't go round telling people, we
want them to think we are "Hot Shots".
When in ground effect, with the low wing, and the flaps down, it becomes
very stable and almost self levelling.
John Cocker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder fixture |
>Hello List:
>
> It's me again with another rudder question. I have built the
>fixture for construction of the rudder using the provided v-blocks
>making sure that I have used those that are designated for the rudder.
>The plans show on sheet 8-pp that the distance between these v-blocks
needs
>to be 39 1/2 inches.
My plan would be to get the v-blocks as
>close to the tip and bottom of the rudder without covering up the
>prepunched holes, make sure everything is square in the fixture, and
>have at it.
>
>
> Once again, thanks for all the help.
>
>
>Regards,
>Jeff Orear
>RV 6A ser. no 25171 rudder
>Peshtigo, WI
Jeff,
Your plan will work fine. I placed the v-blocks as close to the top and
bottom of the rudder as possible without getting in the way of the rib
rivet lines. The rudder can be shifted in the blocks anyway to allow
access for whatever tooling you need to use. As long as the blocks are
plumb (do NOT rely on the blocks being sawed perfectly square, verify
this yourself. Don't ask me how I know...), you won't have any problems
at all. Also make sure to tape the V-block cutouts with duct tape to
protect the skin from scuffing.
Have fun!
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
Elbow deep in Proseal
http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
I bought some rivets today that were an "MS20" spec rather then the
usual NAS or AN. I think the whole designation was "MS20470AD4-9" or
something similar. Are these aircraft grade rivets? The guy at the
counter said they were mil spec, aircraft grade, and that the MS
designation supercedes the AN or NAS spec. Any thoughts?
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: rudder fixture |
> If I move the v-blocks closer together to clear the prepunched
>holes, I cannot figure out how to get the TE of the rudder skin to be
>parallel to the work surface, as is asked for in figure 6-3pp. Why does
>this TE have to be parallel to the work surface? Seems to me that if I
>get the v-blocks perpendicular to the center line of the fixture and at
>90 degrees to the centerline, won't that ensure a straight rudder? What
>did everyone else do here? My plan would be to get the v-blocks as
>close to the tip and bottom of the rudder without covering up the
>prepunched holes, make sure everything is square in the fixture, and
>have at it.
>
>Regards,
>Jeff Orear
>RV 6A ser. no 25171 rudder
>Peshtigo, WI
>
Jeff,
I ran into this, too. Like you say, as long as you are on centerline and
perpendicular, you will have a straight rudder. I called and talked to Bill
Benedict about this very issue and he said they could be an inch or two off,
but that being on centerline and perpendicular is the key. My rudder and
both elevators came out as straight as an arrow.... My rudder didn't sit
with the TE parallel either. Don't worry about it.
Keep at it!
>
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Wing Spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Paul,
Although the RV6 manual flaps are many times better than the RV4 manuals,
that last notch on the 6 can be a problem. Go with the electric--you'll
be glad you did. Note that electric flaps are standard on the RV8.
Best regards, Bill , RV4, N66WD
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
>I bought some rivets today that were an "MS20" spec rather then the
>usual NAS or AN. I think the whole designation was "MS20470AD4-9" or
>something similar. Are these aircraft grade rivets? The guy at the
>counter said they were mil spec, aircraft grade, and that the MS
>designation supercedes the AN or NAS spec. Any thoughts?
>
>Moe Colontonio
Moe;
He's right. The MS20 are the same as AN or NAS. My supplier (Spencer
Aircraft) only carries MS stuff. When I get time I'll write you off list
on how my HS is going. Like you, I had to scrap the front spar.
Mike Robbins
RV-8 #591
Still trying to finish the HS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airborne vac pump fittings |
Make 'em, you're home builders aren't you? Or are you just assemblers?
If you have a small lathe or know some one who does, make these
fittings. They are just metal in a certain shape. If you can build an
airplane don't be intimidated by a small fitting. make them!
Phil
michael d hilger wrote:
>
> If you are assembling the bits and pieces for your vacuum
> system
> and need those expensive airborne fittings ($50-75 on up), don't order
>
> the 1K8-6-8 elbow ($4.50) from Wag-Aero.
> They just told me they can't get 'em, so we'll have to cruise the
> salvage
> yards or bite the bullet...
>
>
> Mike Hilger
>
> RV-6 Systems installation
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
nstall so that just the important parts stick thru the baggage
cover. With the Oxysaver cannulas it provides 7 hrs duration each to two
persons at 15,000 ft. The complete system weighs about 6 lbs. Chief sells
for $375 complete.
We tried ours out at 13,000 ft last Sunday for about 2 hours. The cannulas
are very easily donned/doffed and the system enabled/disabled at altitude.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Graf <markgraf(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
> Bottom line is, I strongly recommend the electric flaps on the RV-6.
>
I have flown in 6's with both the manual and electic flaps. My
observations:
The electric are infinatly adjustable between the stops, the manual have
three positions, up half and full. On the manual that I fly, the full
is about 35 degrees, that half about 18 degrees.
The manual flaps are sort of self protecting. it gets to be very
difficult to add flaps above flap speed, but I have had no problem at
speeds below 90 for the first notch and 75 for the second notch. I am
of average build with a slight horizontal enhancement (too many fly in
breakfasts), so upper arm strength is not a great factor.
I enjoy flying both, and appreciate the benefits of both, but the beauty
of building it yourself is that you can make it what you want. Get a
ride in one of each, I can't imagine a tougher way to make a decision.
Mark Graf
N71CG 150hp RV-6
160+hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< I bought some rivets today that were an "MS20" spec rather then the
usual NAS or AN. I think the whole designation was "MS20470AD4-9" or
something similar. Are these aircraft grade rivets? The guy at the
counter said they were mil spec, aircraft grade, and that the MS
designation supercedes the AN or NAS spec. Any thoughts? >>
This is correct. In a rare stroke of logic, the gummint in their collective
wisdom made the MS20470 supercede the AN470 and the MS20426 supercede the
AN426.
They have not done anything right (correct) since.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Equipment review at 100 hours |
<< BTW - landing the RV 6A is very easy, but don't go round telling people, we
want them to think we are "Hot Shots".
When in ground effect, with the low wing, and the flaps down, it becomes
very stable and almost self levelling. >>
John is absolutely correct on both counts. The 6A is a creampuff to land and
absolutely do not tell anyone (you didn't hear it from me). For everyone
else, the 6A is a hot plane driven only by top gun type pilots with finely
honed senses, right.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
Paul:
I am an Electrical Engineer. I work with Spacecraft.
I have the manual flaps in my -6. I LIKE THEM. Both aileron and
elevator have manual tirm. I have flown with Mike and know that he
thinks that the electric ones improve safety. I have flown both. I
have 92+ hours on my -6 in the last 7 months. I have no plans at this
time of changing to electric. I did built it so that I could retrofit
in the electric if I wanted to.
I do not find the following disadvantages of manual flaps important.
1. Cannot get to the flap handle when someone with a wide rear is
along for the ride. (Solution: Be picky on who you give rides to.)
2. The last notch (44 degrees) is hard to get unless the airplane is
slowed down. I do not put the last notch in until I have 65 KIAS.
This is usually downwind abeam the numbers. They can be put down at
80 KIAS but you better have a strong arm.
3. Cheaper.
IMHO: If you are more than 10% over the FAA standard person, get the
electric. If you regularly fly someone more than 10% over the FAA
standard person, get the electric. Most of my non-RV time is in
aircraft with electric flaps or no flaps. How was I to find out if I
did not like the manual flaps unless I tried them. Besides, I did not
want to spend the extra money until I found out for myself that I did
not like it.
I have manual flaps. I LIKE MY MANUAL FLAPS IN MY RV-6. I have not
plans of changing from manual flaps.
---paul lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> wrote:
>
>
> I had a one hour lesson with Mike Seager last Friday in "old blue."
It
> was a wonderful experience but I am re-evaluating my decision to use
> manual flaps in my almost completed 6a. (Mike strongly recommends
> electric flaps.) I have built the manual flaps with the flap lever
> shortened a few inches as Van's recommends. My wife and I have been
able
> to sit in our fuselage and make motor sounds and I find the flap
lever
> more awkward to reach, now that the interior has everything in it,
than
> it was at first. Are there any RV Listers who have flown both and
would
> like to share advice? It would be very easy to convert my plane to
> electric flaps at this point, on the other hand maybe I should wait
until
> I have flown with the manual flaps for a while.
> Thanks in advance,
> Paul
> 90% done, 90% to go in Michigan
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: vacuum and primer systems |
>
><< The March copy of kitplanes just hit the newsstands (well
> selected aviation book stores) so April's issue is still a month away.>>
>
>When you get it check out the Rapco ad to see how their system fits together.
>
><< If you had the mental energy to look at the Spruce catalogue that would be
> wonderful>>
>
>Here goes the list of things I used for a two gyro system. All dollars
>rounded US.
>
>Suction Gauge P/N 10-01010 $76 (v=vent to static air, p=pressure from gauge)
>Sigmatek Vacuum Pump w/gasket P/N 1U128-006 $354 (face ports up)
>Regulator P/N 2H3-23 $194 (mount on f/w)
>Cooling Shroud (optional) P/N 10-23975 $46 (helps cool pump)
>Filter P/N 1J7-1 $35 (mount in cabin under panel)
>Special Wrench (recommended for your chapter) P/N 10-13911 $29
>Fitting (2 req'd) P/N 1K1-6-10 $25 ea (install in pump ports)
>Fitting (4 req'd) P/N 1K10-4-6 $19 ea (install in gyro instrument ports)
>Fitting P/N AN840-4D $3
>1/4" ID stiff walled Hose 2 ft max
>3/8" ID stiff walled Hose 4 ft max
>5/8" ID stiff walled Hose 3 ft max
>
><< I hate to abuse the friendship but was wondering if you could give me a
> little advice on primer fittings. The Spruce catalogue has a tiny
> reproduction of primer fittings and all the details have been lost. I have
> put the ACS solonoid on the firewall and thought I would run -4 Aeoroquip
> 601 to the baffle and then put in a T as you said you had done. What T
> gives you reduction from the -4 down to 1/8 copper tube?>>
>
>Leo-
>
>No can do. You need to keep it 1/8" OD tubing all the way from the outlet
>(P/N AN816-2D, AN819-2D, AN818-2D) of the solenoid operated valve to the Tee
>(AN804-2D, AN924-2D). I would also recommend using S/S tubing (P/N 03-16010)
>in lieu of copper. I used 1/8" teflon w/stainless braided hose assy (Earl's
>from the local speed shop) for the run from the f/w to the Tee, the rest is
>s/s hard tubing.
>
><< Then what fitting
> do you use to get the tube into the manifold plug? >>
>
>The ACS drawing is truly worthless. What you need is an AN800-2 (Cone
Union),
>AN805-2 (Nut) and AN4022-1 (Fitting) for each primer port connection (I put
>them in the front two jugs only). Each Cone Union needs to be SILVER
soldered
>onto the 1/8" OD tubing.
>
>Hope this helps you thru your current impass. The end is in sight and it
will
>be worth it, trust me.
>
>-GV (RV-6A flying 30.1 hrs and loving it)
>
GV,
Many thanks again for your help. The above looks just the ticket. I have
taken the liberty of CCing it (? invalid construction) to the list as it is
bound to be of use to several people struggling out there.
Cheers,
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
Moe
Ms20470, or 20426, are direct replacements for AN470, and AN426 rivets. Not to
worry. The guy told you right.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing wiring |
>>Nearly ready to rivet skeletons together but I need to know tried and true
location of wiring conduit and also pitot line. Manual gives suggestions
but
I know someone must have measurements that best avoid problems later.
When do I need to install fuel senders?<<
Dennis,
Just making those decisions myself as follows...
WIRING: wires in forward-upper corner of ribs with decreasing diameter snap
bushings as wires peel off for; heated pitot, landing light, tip strobes.
I'll need to figure out exactly what diameters to use, bought a nice
assortment of snap bushings for any eventuality.
PITOT: will be plastic 1/4" tubing from ACS (Nylo-Seal I think) in lower
front corners of ribs. I bought the trick pitot mount from Warren Gretz and
will locate it one bay outboard of the standard location to get it away from
the inspection cover. The pitot also features a built in static source hence
I will run two tubes, also thru nylon snap bushings. This will also save all
the plumbing for the standard dual static sources on either side of the
fuselage.
Hope that helps,
Randy Lervold
-8 #80500, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
Dear List,
Over the Easter weekend I have been struggling with my prop and spinner. A
couple of issues came up and when I checked the archives I found some of
these had been raised before but the answers probably didn't match the
questions. I thought I would detail my experiences for general interest.
I have a 360 new from Van's and a C/S prop, new from Van's (lucky me)
I should start by saying that I had an operational limitation that not all
builders face. When I ordered my engine and prop there was a hiccup at
Van's that lead to them "dropping" the prop (not physically, just from the
order). This meant that there was a six month interval between the arrival
of my engine and my prop. I didn't want to wait forever to mount the
engine, cowling etc so I spoke to Bill B. at Van's who said, " no problem,
mount the rear spinner bulkhead on spacers and fit the cowling to that." I
forget the absolute dimension of the spacers for the moment but it was 2
and something inches.
This leaves me not much room to move on fitting the spinner rear bulkead to
my prop because I am comitted to the location of the bulkhead by the
location of my cowl.
So, when my prop arrives I find it fitted with 1/4 inch spacers plus
washers and nuts on bolts designed to mount a spinner bulkead. This is
described in the Hartzell info as "spinner mounting kit". Sounds good.
Once you cut out the 7.2" circle from the centre per instructions the
Van's spinner kit rear bulkead (with laser cut holes), slides beautifully
over the bolts and down to the hub. Well almost. In fact there is a lump
of hub that stops the plate seating on the spacers. In order to sit the
bulkead clear of the hub would require a further 5/16 of spacing. Not only
would this do away with my current cowl but it would pretty much sit the
bulkhead in the starter ring gear.
What solution. Well the only logical solution is to cut out two rectangular
lumps from the inner diameter of the rear bulk head to clear the
offending piece of hub. This done the bulkead sits down nicely on the
spacers. Now rivet on the reinforcing ring, mount the prop, put the cowling
on and stand back with pride. A lovely 3/16 inch clearance between the
front of the cowl and the rear edge of the spinner bulkhead, Bill's
dimensions are just right!
Well almost.
While trowling through the archives I had retrieved an irritating post
from GV who mentioned that the prop must not strike the spinner rear
bulkhead when it is in the fully coarse position. He's such a stickler for
detail. So get a big friend and we put the prop in coarse. Well almost
except that the blade roots foul the bulkhead. @#$%$#@#$%$#
Get some 063 washers and put one on each bolt spacing the bulkead back 1/16
of an inch. Re-try the coarse pitch trick. Now the prop hits the stops and
you can just slide a sheet of paper between the bulkead and the prop root.
Now my clearance to cowl is 1/8 of an inch. A bit squeaky. I figure if I'm
real careful with my nut plate placement I can take off the bulkead and
machine 1/16 off the back all the way round and restore this clearance.
So what......
Well I guess it will all work.
The Van's spinner kit for the 180 and the C/S will only work if you hack
out a lump (s) of metal not mentioned in the insructions.
The spacing back from the hub is not 1/4" it is 1/4 plus 1/16"
If you have your prop I would mount the spinner before the cowl.
I hope no one points out some glaring error to me but the above was the
only way I could make it work for me.
Cheers,
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder fixture |
It should work just fine as you supposed. However, I found that I was
able to work my rudder in the jigs as diagrammed by moving the rudder
slightly to clear the holes and using a long drill bit. Keep going.
PatK - RV-6A
jorear(at)mari.net wrote:
>
> It's me again with another rudder question.
*** Question about fixture spacing snipped ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rwbrv4 <Rwbrv4(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wet vacuum pumps |
Ken, the wet pumps used to be the norm, but most people considered them messy
because they required a oil seperator. Oil is exhausted with the air from the
pump, (the vanes of the pump are lubricated with oil-thats why they last so
long), and must be recovered and returned to the engine. Properly done they
are no more messy than the engine crankcase breather system, in fact less
messy. Look in trade-a-plane for them.
Rick Bell A&P RV4 N83RB "Margaritaville Air Express"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
| From: | twood(at)ucf.k12.pa.us (Tom Wood) |
I am building an RV-4. Do you recommend electric flaps on the 4 also?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
>
> Are there any RV Listers who have flown both and would
>like to share advice? It would be very easy to convert my plane to
>electric flaps at this point, on the other hand maybe I should wait until
>I have flown with the manual flaps for a while.
>Paul
>
Paul:
Many of the responses to this post have come in strongly in favor of
electric flaps. I would like to offer another viewpoint.
I built the manual flaps in my RV-6 in accordance with the drawings. I also
shortened the handle as recommended. On the ground, I could work the flaps
without a problem. When I flew the airplane, I could only get 1/2 flaps.
Even at airspeeds near the stall, I could not pull hard enough with one hand
to get full flaps. (One time when you do not want to let go of the stick is
when you are adding flaps.) After the first few hours of flight, I decided
that this was not going to work; I ordered the electric flap kit from Van's.
I was discussing the problem with a local RV-4 pilot, and he suggested that
I might be able to change the geometry to make it work. In the flaps up
position, my flap handle was 2 or 3" above the floor boards. I installed
longer flap push rods and cut new notches in the flap support bracket so
that in the flaps up position, the end of the flap handle would rest about
1/2" above the floor. This small change made all the difference in the
world. I was now able pull for full flaps, even at higher airspeeds (Vfe).
After 30 or 40 flying hours, I decided that I preferred the manual flaps,
and I returned the electric flap kit to Van's for a credit.
I personally like the instant on/off capability of manual flaps. Tom Green
at Van's has manual flaps in his airplane. He says that to get into some
remote strips, he needs to be able to dump the flaps immediately at
touchdown. (These are flying skills that I have yet to learn.) My rework
of the flap support bracket left notches in other places in addition to 0,
50 and 100%. I find these other flap positions occasionally useful. If I
was building another RV-6, I would go with manual flaps with set positions
of 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100%.
Pilot/passenger size, seat cushion thickness, and seat back position will
also have an influence on the ease (or difficulty) of using manual flaps.
In the final analysis, I believe that the decision to go with manual or
electric flaps is one of personal preference.
Mark
Green Bay, WI
RV-6; flying, 180 hours
(working on my first annual inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Bad landings & Authority |
Well, here I am again with a story. Many of you seem to like to hear about
flying stories, so I'll bare my soul again.
Last night I made the worst landing ever after so many sweet ones.
I flew to an airport across the river to let my daughter and son-in-law see
the new RV. Landing to the West, no wind to speak of, no traffic at all.
When I got down to about 300', the glare of the sun was a full blast in the
face. I really don't know if I touched on the threshold or before it. I
dropped in and a very bad bounce, stick jumps back and forth. another jump
and I hit the throttle to go around. Forgot the flaps (again), went around
and landed OK. I felt very bad all night. My old pal back at base laughed
and said "It won't be the last time, I still do them once in a while". "Why
didn't you ask for a change of runway ? those controllers sitting there are
not aware of the problems you may have " ?
He was very right. I never thought to ask because I am so used to
thinking of them as being the authority. No bashing of controllers, please
believe that, it was up to me to speak up. Next time I will. I sure hope
that the RV gear is strong. I didn't bend anything. Too bad it wrecked my
night's sleep....Practice..practice..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
<< While trowling through the archives I had retrieved an irritating post
from GV who mentioned that the prop must not strike the spinner rear
bulkhead when it is in the fully coarse position. He's such a stickler for
detail. So get a big friend and we put the prop in coarse. Well almost
except that the blade roots foul the bulkhead. @#$%$#@#$%$#
Get some 063 washers and put one on each bolt spacing the bulkead back 1/16
of an inch. Re-try the coarse pitch trick. Now the prop hits the stops and
you can just slide a sheet of paper between the bulkead and the prop root.
Now my clearance to cowl is 1/8 of an inch. A bit squeaky. I figure if I'm
real careful with my nut plate placement I can take off the bulkead and
machine 1/16 off the back all the way round and restore this clearance. >>
Leo-
I wouldn't recommend fitting of the cowling without having the prop, but
you've done well grasshopper and your reasoning is sound. Just kiss the TE of
the rear bulkhead off on a lathe or whatever and you should have about .150"
clearance, which is what I have, and it works fine.
Keep in mind that the whole shebang will settle about .250" at the prop flange
after your first few flights. This opens the top gap and closes the bottom.
If you feel that you need more and can't get it any other way, you could shim
the engine mount at the firewall using some fender washers.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | electric vs vaccum ag & dg |
It maybe a subtle point but without a second battery, the second
alternator is just standby for the first and there are single points of
failure than can bring everything down.
Bob,
Maybe I am misinterpreting the B & C literature. Don't they make a
"dynamo" that produces power when it is turning? This unit would not
require a field voltage to operate, thus eliminate the single point of
failure concern. How would this work as a backup source of power?
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder fixture |
Hello,
I moved the V-blocks closer together. TE parallel to table is not
important, unless I missed something.
Also, On my plans, the dimensions for the 410 brace didn't make sense.
You'll have to worry that into place. Mine had a blue outline on it which
I used. Ok but had to attach lower tab to the top of the rudder
horn...ok'd by VANS.
When you do the trailing edge bend, do a little on one side, then flip it
over and do the other. This will minimize any irregularities you may have
in your break. I worried about this until I did it. It is actually no big
deal.
Sighting the WD-405 into correct position is 'interesting'. I use markings
on the tube with a string and the already installed spar reinforcement
rivets as a guide.
For skill/appearance enhancement, make sure the skin is perfectly supported
and in alignment with the back rivet plate and the dimpling tool. I took a
long table, bought particle board, cut holes in it for the plate and the
dimpler so that the skin was supported at all times and in alignment. The
result was a minimum of distortion or stress around the rivets.
On bending the leading edge, I recommend you bend each section at a time
rather than all at once, especially if you will be doing it yourself. I
tried all three at once by myself and though the results were very good,
ther is a slight crease along the spar line on the small section near the
top of the rudder.
BUT, the rudder went a lot faster for me and marked the first time I really
felt I was begriming to get a handle on what I was doing. The quality of
the work showed a dramatic improvement, and the time it took to do it came
down.
Times:
Rudder: 50 hours
Right Elevator: 50 hours...includes work/paint done on parts common with
Left elevator.
Left Elevator: Still working on it but after 15 hours have 80 % done.
Wings on Order
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8- Left Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Holes thru spar for wires etc. |
Hi all,
It seems to me as tho the best place to put a hole in the main spar to pass
wiring and a pitot tubing thru would be dead center. In other words, notch the
end of the spar mid span. I need about a one inch diam hole or several smaller
ones.
Is this this right place? I suppose some could be routed up and over the spar
but is that necessary?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
Sun in the eyes - bad even if there is no Red Barron shooting at you.
I learned all about this long ago, flying into Oakland. I was a Washington
resident at the time and big city airports were a challenge anyway. I was
pleased that I had made it all the way to OAK and was in nice position on a base
leg for runway 27R. Then I turned final and !!POW!! - blinded! I concentrated
on getting it on the runway with never a thought of going around/away etc.
Part of the cure is planning ahead which I am not naturally good at. Arriving
at sundown for 27 is going to be like this. Come on in welding goggles at the
ready. Or, ask for a different runway or land real steep. Or, wait till
sundown.
Later, an instructor taught me to think of the landing approach as an approach
to a go-around. Then, if everything is perfect, land.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Wiring wings
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
A quick question here about installing the j-stringers on the RV6A;
How do you attach the stringers on the F610, 611, 612 bulkheads?
The F610 has only straight slots in it, and the 611 and 612 have no
slots at all. The instructions are vague in this area. I assume you
have to trim the stingers to fasten to the bulkheads. Is this correct?
Thanks in advance.
Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage---
emcole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Holes thru spar for wires etc. |
<< I need about a one inch diam hole or several smaller ones. >>
Save yourself the heart-ache and make a 3"x 4" cut-out now. It seems like you
have enough room until you start pulling antenna wires and other conduits
through that hole. It gets cluttered-up fast and is a real pain to open up
later.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
Leave for SNF tomorrow (to beat the Wx and to watch a Shuttle launch)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | electric vs vaccum ag & dg |
>
>Maybe I am misinterpreting the B & C literature. Don't they make a
>"dynamo" that produces power when it is turning? This unit would not
>require a field voltage to operate, thus eliminate the single point of
>failure concern. How would this work as a backup source of power?
>
>Ken Harrill
>RV - 6, fuselage
>
Excellent question. They do indeed have a permanent magnet alternator
(3 different kinds) that do not require field excitation . . . the
rub is that the voltage regulators still need some external bias to
know that a battery is on line before they come alive . . . regulation
is poor and NOISE is terrible without a battery . . . it can be a
pretty small one. I think we've got some bulders flying the SD-8 with
as small as a 6 a.h. battery. This is essentially what Dean Hall
is doing.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
Leo Davies said:
> Over the Easter weekend I have been struggling with my prop and spinner. A
[snip!]
This is really good stuff Leo!
I have been going through the same process, with a few differences.
I started out just using the prop instead of a temporary spacer. I
think a spacer would've been more convenient but I was afraid to trust
the "given" dimension.
One thing that Leo touched on but I'm not sure is clear is that
if you do use a spacer instead of the prop, don't cut out the center of
the spinner backplate yet. If you do, you will be cutting out the holes
that you can use to bolt it to the crank. That's another reason (the
REAL reason actualy) why I ended up just using the prop!
I am curious about one thing. Leo, you said you got "big friend and we
put the prop in coarse". Was the "big friend" there to help twist
the blades brute force? Maybe a dumb question, but I have a new
prop and engine like you and don't know of a way to change pitch
without running the engine. Are you saying you just reef it around?
One more thing. Van's seems to be eternally 3-6 months out on
Hartzell props (for O-360 anyway), so for anyone who is planning to
get one, be sure you take the long lead time into account.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
You are correct. You have to trim the stringers at the 611 and 612.
For a good fit you will probably have to modify the slots in all the
other bulkheads.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
A quick question here about installing the j-stringers on the
RV6A;
How do you attach the stringers on the F610, 611, 612 bulkheads?
The F610 has only straight slots in it, and the 611 and 612 have
no
slots at all. The instructions are vague in this area. I assume
you
have to trim the stingers to fasten to the bulkheads. Is this
correct?
Thanks in advance.
Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage---
emcole(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Tom,
I would definitly reccomend electric flaps on a 4. The manual flap
arrangement is in my opinion pretty "Mickey Mouse" and with a passenger
(especially one with big feet), pulling flaps on (or off) can be a real
hassle. I flew my first 4 about 400 hrs with manual flaps and when the
electric flap option came out---converted.What a joy! I Put them on from
the get go on the new 4.
Regards, Bill, N66WD
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> |
Anybody know what's going on at Panel Planner? Their website has been off-line
for the past few days.
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
>
>Keep in mind that the whole shebang will settle about .250" at the prop
flange
>after your first few flights. This opens the top gap and closes the bottom.
>If you feel that you need more and can't get it any other way, you could shim
>the engine mount at the firewall using some fender washers.
>
>-GV
Ah.......
good thought, I had forgotten that the whole motor mount shebang is a
partially moveable feast
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Malia Mondy <malia(at)truman.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
>
>Sun in the eyes - bad even if there is no Red Barron shooting at you.
>
>I learned all about this long ago, flying into Oakland. I was a Washington
>resident at the time and big city airports were a challenge anyway. I was
>pleased that I had made it all the way to OAK and was in nice position on a
base
>leg for runway 27R. Then I turned final and !!POW!! - blinded! I
concentrated
>on getting it on the runway with never a thought of going around/away etc.
>
>snip<
This discussion reminds me of an article I saw several years ago in a
magazine/pamphlet called Aviation Safety. What I remember of the article
was something like this:
The NTSB was investigating several single-engine plane crashes where the
pilot was landing directly into the sun, and for no apparent reason, flew
the plane into the ground. No final reduction in power, no flare, etc.
They theorized that at certain prop rpm's, the prop through the glare of the
sun created a sort of strobe effect which mesmerized (or even hypnotized)
the pilot to the point of incapacitating him. I can't remember for sure if
they had tried to duplicate the conditions in simulated settings. Anyway,
they strongly cautioned that pilots be aware of the potential for this
hypnotic effect and choose a different runway or delay their landing. . .
Anybody else recall this, or have issues of Aviation Safety from 1989? I
found a couple from September & October, but I couldn't locate that specific
article, but I know it was in that approximate timeframe. A brief internet
search didn't turn up that magazine, either.
Malia Mondy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Young <gyoung(at)bcm.tmc.edu> |
I used a rat-tail file to turn the slots into an "L" shape and trimmed the ends
of the J-stringers to a tab to overlap the bulkhead flange.
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY (reserved) fuselage - controls and panel
>
> A quick question here about installing the j-stringers on the RV6A;
> How do you attach the stringers on the F610, 611, 612 bulkheads?
> The F610 has only straight slots in it, and the 611 and 612 have no
> slots at all. The instructions are vague in this area. I assume you
> have to trim the stingers to fasten to the bulkheads. Is this correct?
> Thanks in advance.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
<< "MS20470AD4-9" >>
Sounds like a part number I've seen at Boeing, so don't worry, they are fine.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
>
> He was very right. I never thought to ask because I am so used to
>thinking of them as being the authority. No bashing of controllers, please
>believe that, it was up to me to speak up. Next time I will. I sure hope
>that the RV gear is strong. I didn't bend anything. Too bad it wrecked my
>night's sleep....Practice..practice..
>
Anytime I make 2 good landings in a row, I am worried about the next one,
because 3 in a row and there is a liar some where!
As for ATC, along time ago from an old-timer told me, the most important
word in aviation is "unable." Don't say, "I, uh, well, I, uh would prefer,
maybe, like if you could let me try, that runway over there, that is sorta
pointed towards the wind." When ATC tell you to do something that you are
not comfortable with just respond, "unable." They will ask you why and
then tell them.
The same goes for when you ask them for a something and they say "standby."
Going into Dallas Love as a green co-pilot in a Jet Commander. The Jet
Commander was a real fuel critical airplane, it was either out of gas or on
the ground. We were dodging thunderstorms and had been forced down to a low
altitude too early. I kept begging the controller for a more direct route.
The urgency must have been apparent in my voice because the controller asked
if we needed to declare a fuel emergency. The "Old Salt" inn the left seat
picked up the mike and said, "No we're not, and we're not gonna, But we are
going direct to Dallas Love right now." After a moments pause the response
was, "cleared direct Dallas Love." Learned a lesson I'll never forget that
day.
Nothing against them the controllers, but they are not flying your airplane
and may not know what is going on in your airplane. Read the FAR's and find
out how many times it says "the Pilot in Command is responsible....." and
then see how many times it says, "ATC is responsible...."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
>
>
>> Over the Easter weekend I have been struggling with my prop and spinner. A
>[snip!]
>I have been going through the same process, with a few differences.
>I started out just using the prop instead of a temporary spacer. I
>think a spacer would've been more convenient but I was afraid to trust
>the "given" dimension.
Be afraid, be very afraid...... well actually the backplate on spacers is
quite nice to work with, I'm sure you must have cursed that prop a few
times during cowl mounting. If I was doing it over with the prop on hand I
think I would make a wood copy of the rear bulkhead, fit the prop with the
bulkhead, make sure of the distances and cut spacers to duplicate this,
prop back in the box, wood dummy bulkhead on...... etc
>One thing that Leo touched on but I'm not sure is clear is that
>if you do use a spacer instead of the prop, don't cut out the center of
>the spinner backplate yet. If you do, you will be cutting out the holes
>that you can use to bolt it to the crank.
True
>I am curious about one thing. Leo, you said you got "big friend and we
>put the prop in coarse". Was the "big friend" there to help twist
>the blades brute force? Maybe a dumb question, but I have a new
>prop and engine like you and don't know of a way to change pitch
>without running the engine. Are you saying you just reef it around?
Yep.... This was from Bill Benedict. If I grab the leading and trailing
edges of the prop on my own and really lean into it I can reef it around
almost to the stop but have no hands left over for other tasks. With one
person on each blade it is fairly easy and one person can hold it in full
coarse while the other checks clearances etc.
>One more thing. Van's seems to be eternally 3-6 months out on
>Hartzell props (for O-360 anyway), so for anyone who is planning to
>get one, be sure you take the long lead time into account.
For sure, maybe this is something to do with Cessna going back into
production but the lead on the prop was long.
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: J- Stringers |
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 4:22 PM
Subject: RV-List: J- Stringers
>
> the 611 and 612 have no
>slots at all. The instructions are vague in this area. I assume you
>have to trim the stingers to fasten to the bulkheads. Is this correct?
>
This is the way I did it and it appears to be quite rigid. With a tail
dragger, I didn't want to give up any strength in those rear bulkheads by
cutting relief there.
Tom -6 fuse skinning
>
>Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage---
>emcole(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
RE: Bottom fiberglass rudder cap:
I have notched out the bottom fiberglass rudder cap to clear the control
horn. The result, a square hole through the rudder. Can and should
this be closed up? Or is there some other purpose to it?
-Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
No need to get too technical on this question....
What are the basic differences between the way cars are typically
painted and the way airplanes are painted?
Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Paint |
Auto painters don't scream and argue about what primer they're gonna
use.
Moe
Glenn & Judi wrote:
> No need to get too technical on this question....
>
> What are the basic differences between the way cars are typically
> painted and the way airplanes are painted?
>
> Glenn Gordon
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Hargrave" <Bobby.Hargrave(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rib-fwd spar attachment |
Tony:
Thanks for the heads up. I will trim before rivet'g mine. Just started emp
4/9.
Bob
RV8 80706
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Paint |
<< What are the basic differences between the way cars are typically
painted and the way airplanes are painted? >>
Cars are mostly steel which requires derusting (sand blasting or similar)
followed immediately by a good epoxy chromate primer and then top coat in
quick succession if you don't sand between coats.
Airplanes (ours anyway) are mostly FRP and aluminum. The FRP needs to be
filled and primed (acrylic or epoxy) and sanded ad infinitum.
Finishing aluminum requires that you (1) scuff (scotchbrite or similar to give
tooth), (2) clean (Alumiprep, weak phosphoric acid), (3) rinse (water), (4)
chem film (Alodine, chromic acid), (5) rinse (water), (6) dry, (7) prime
(epoxy primer preferred) and (8) top coat and clear coat if needed (your
choice) all in quick succession (one day apart or so) to get the best bonding.
Use the same system/manufacturer for all the paint.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Dwyer" <bddwyer(at)rogers.wave.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
The phenomenon you are describing is also known as "flicker vertigo". Try a
web search on that term.
Barry Dwyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Dwyer" <bddwyer(at)rogers.wave.ca> |
| Subject: | Priming quick-build kits |
What is the current wisdom on priming quick-build kits? Obviously a large
part of the structure (laps, riveted joints, rivets, etc.) will get no
benefit from spraying primer before final close-outs.
Are builders doing this anyway? Or is it simpler, safer, cheaper, etc. to
just build with unprimed aluminum and then spray the works with ACF-50 (or
some such product that "weeps") after construction?
Barry Dwyer
(sold spam-can, waiting for payment so I can buy an RV-8 QB)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Planner |
Try this version of their URL:
http://www.panelplanner.com/product.html
By the way, the software is really neat. Product Review coming soon in
"The RV Journal".
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
Nicholas Knobil wrote:
>
>
> Anybody know what's going on at Panel Planner? Their website has been off-line
for the past few days.
>
> Nick Knobil
> Bowdoinham, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G51355 <G51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Left Elevator Stiffener Position |
Question regarding RV8 left hand elevator, inboard stiffener position (this is
the stiffener that is mounted on the upper elevator surface, over the elevator
trim motor).
Drawing 4PP indicates 5 1/8 inches to the LEFT edge of the stiffener (all
other dimensions are to the RIGHT edges of the stiffeners). The drawing
indicates this stiffener is positioned over the left side of the trim motor
opening (I realize that the stiffener is not mounted on the same surface as
the trim motor opening) however if you measure 5 1/8 inch to the LEFT edge,
the stiffener will be positioned over the center of the trim motor opening.
Either the drawing has the wrong dimension or it incorrectly depects where the
stiffener is in relation to the trim motor opening. Any thoughts?
Glen Wagner
RV8 Left Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Holes thru spar for wires etc. |
On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Hal Kempthorne wrote:
> It seems to me as tho the best place to put a hole in the main spar to pass
> wiring and a pitot tubing thru would be dead center. In other words, notch the
> end of the spar mid span. I need about a one inch diam hole or several smaller
> ones.
This has been discussed before... IIRC, the conclusion was that the centre
is the best place. However, it might be worth checking to see where the
elevator and rudder linkages go.
On the RV-6, the pitot line goes in front of the main spar, so you
shouldn't need to route the pitot tubing through the spar (unless you put
your wings on backward :-) Or maybe you were talking about the static port
tubing?
In an effort to avoid these issues, I've put my wing wiring through the
nose ribs and between the tank and spar. In the process, I've run into a
couple of different snags, but I think it's going to be workable.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
> The urgency must have been apparent in my voice because the controller asked
> if we needed to declare a fuel emergency. The "Old Salt" inn the left seat
> picked up the mike and said, "No we're not, and we're not gonna, But we are
> going direct to Dallas Love right now." After a moments pause the response
> was, "cleared direct Dallas Love." Learned a lesson I'll never forget that
> day.
Doug,
I don't think you want to give the impression that not calling a "Fuel
Emergency" to the controller is the way to go. It cost one nothing if
you do and only alerts the controller that you need priority handling.
Some of these "Old Salt" had to much ego and not enough humility as I
remember. I think you know my Old Salts are older than yours.HEHE Any
way I'm not trying to flame you just review your statement and remind
you of AVIANCA back a few years ago at Kenedy JFK New York and what he
did and what he should have done.
Keep the blue side up
Regards
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J VanGrunsven" <rvforpla(at)pacifier.com> |
This evening I got to fly the new RV-8A for the first time. The flight was
for one delightful hour of cruising, slow flight, a whole bunch of stalls,
wing overs, rolls, cuban 8s, and octaflugerons (untitled but pure fun
maneuvers of all sorts that excite the soul) and 5 landings (2 on
pavement, 3 on grass). Just one word discribes this newest anti-gravity
machine from Van's "skunk works"; DELIGHTFUL, EXCITING, SENSIBLE,
DESIRABLE, , PRACTICAL, take your choice. And yes, I like the nose wheel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Bottom fiberglass rudder cap: |
I have notched out the bottom fiberglass rudder cap to clear the control
horn. The result, a square hole through the rudder. Can and should
this be closed up? Or is there some other purpose to it?
-Glenn
On completed RVs I've seen, the notch has been left open. What did you use to
make the notch, a cutoff wheel?
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
to the LEFT edge,
the stiffener will be positioned over the center of the trim motor opening.
Either the drawing has the wrong dimension or it incorrectly depects where the
stiffener is in relation to the trim motor opening. Any thoughts?
This stiffener will not interfere with the electric trim motor, or anything else
in that neighborhood.
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Priming quick-build kits |
My QB was already primed. No pigment was used but you could tell on
close inspection that primer had been applied. I have been priming all
parts that I constructed/added to the QB kit.
Gary Fesenbek
Roanoke, VA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barry Dwyer [SMTP:bddwyer(at)rogers.wave.ca]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 10:32 PM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Priming quick-build kits
>
>
> What is the current wisdom on priming quick-build kits? Obviously a
> large
> part of the structure (laps, riveted joints, rivets, etc.) will get no
> benefit from spraying primer before final close-outs.
>
> Are builders doing this anyway? Or is it simpler, safer, cheaper, etc.
> to
> just build with unprimed aluminum and then spray the works with ACF-50
> (or
> some such product that "weeps") after construction?
>
> Barry Dwyer
> (sold spam-can, waiting for payment so I can buy an RV-8 QB)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Graham Jones <gratech(at)acslink.aone.net.au> |
Luker, Michael G. wrote:
> I need to build a hanger and I'm looking for anyone on the list who
> may have a lead on building an inexpensive(not cheap) hanger from
> scratch.
Michael
One "relatively inexpensive" option several is to buy a factory building
that is
in reasonable condition but about to be demolished. Two colleagues and
I are
building a hangar that was effectively half a factory building. It was
being
pulled down to make way for a freeway and we approached the company
whose building
it was and found that they were interested in selling it to us as long
as we could
fit in with their demolition schedule... We did and got a 64' X 80' X
20' clear
span steel structure and cladding for around US$6500.
We are planning for it to take 6 planes with plenty of room to avoid
hangar rash.
All up cost will be about US$16500 erected with sliding doors at both
ends, a
Concrete floor, new roof and new cladding where needed. If we cut out
the
concrete floor (and used stabliised or granitic sand) we could save
about a third
of that. We were able to get the original plans and drawings for the
building so
we easily got permission from the building authorities in the airport
area but
they indicated that if it had been an already erected structure and we
were just
re-erecting it it would not have been a great problem to get approval
(This is
Australia - your mileage may vary...).
So we reckon we got a cheap hangar. It may seem to be big at first but
another
fellow put up a NEW hangar next to us that is JUST big enough to house
his Tiger Moth
(it would probably take two RV's) for US$18000. Given that there are
three of us in
our hangar, with (eventually) two planes each and we could make room for
a fourth
person it is cheap hangarage.
Graham Jones
RV6A Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Bottom fiberglass rudder cap: |
Nick,
For fiberglass trimming, I have found that Harbour Freight offers some small
(1" Dia or so- very thin <1/32)
diamond coated "cutoff" wheels that fit a demeral tool. These permit a very small
"Kerf" line and are easier to
control than the 3" Dia 1/32 cut off wheels in a air driven cutoff tool. They
cut through fiberglass or thin
aluminum sheets very nicely and offer very precise control in my opinion. Also
the smaller demeral tool is easier
to control around corners and curves that air driven cut off tool.
Ed
Nicholas Knobil wrote:
>
>
>
> On completed RVs I've seen, the notch has been left open. What did you use to
make the notch, a cutoff wheel?
>
> Nick Knobil
> Bowdoinham, Maine
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Bottom fiberglass rudder cap: |
I second the Dremel tool with the #409 cutoff wheels. I used the method
described in the "18 Years of the RVator" book to get a nice result
without the square hole. You can see photos here:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/rud_log.html
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
Anderson Ed wrote:
>
>
> Nick,
> For fiberglass trimming, I have found that Harbour Freight offers some small
(1" Dia or so- very thin <1/32)
> diamond coated "cutoff" wheels that fit a demeral tool. These permit a very
small "Kerf" line and are easier to
> control than the 3" Dia 1/32 cut off wheels in a air driven cutoff tool. They
cut through fiberglass or thin
> aluminum sheets very nicely and offer very precise control in my opinion. Also
the smaller demeral tool is easier
> to control around corners and curves that air driven cut off tool.
>
> Ed
>
> Nicholas Knobil wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On completed RVs I've seen, the notch has been left open. What did you use
to make the notch, a cutoff wheel?
> >
> > Nick Knobil
> > Bowdoinham, Maine
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
| From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
Malia,
Don't know about the hypnosis effects BUT when landing into the
sun,blades passing between your eyes and the sun, throttling back about
to start the flare. The prop slows to about 800 rpm and a monster welles
up in your stomach and you (can) go into a state of panic, INSTANTLY.I
can see how one could wreak it by 1. realizing something is terribly
wrong but not knowing what. 2. trying to climb out to get away from this
condition. 3. plane , traveling at it's slowest speed with power all but
off, stalls and crashes. In my case I was lucky enough to have an
instructor watching me instead of the runway and he saved me from
whatever would have happened. Been there, suffered that.
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
Then I turned final and !!POW!! - blinded! I concentrated
on getting it on the runway with never a thought of going around/away
etc.
snip<
This discussion reminds me of an article I saw several years ago in a
magazine/pamphlet called Aviation Safety.
was something like this:
The NTSB was investigating several single-engine plane crashes where
the pilot was landing directly into the sun, and for no apparent reason,
flew the plane into the ground. No final reduction in power, no flare,
etc.They theorized that at certain prop rpm's, the prop through the glare
of thesun created a sort of strobe effect which mesmerized (or even
hypnotized)
the pilot to the point of incapacitating him. pilots be aware of the
potential for this hypnotic effect and choose a different runway or delay
their landing.
Anybody else recall this,
Malia Mondy
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Bottom fiberglass rudder cap: |
> diamond coated "cutoff" wheels that fit a demeral tool. These permit a very
This must be the tool to use after you drill a hole in your finger!!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
charset="us-ascii"
>
>Doug,
> I don't think you want to give the impression that not calling a "Fuel
>Emergency" to the controller is the way to go. It cost one nothing if
>you do and only alerts the controller that you need priority handling.
Don is right, when you are out of gas you should say so. ( in the jet
commander that would have been immediately after take off on almost every
trip ) I was just using this as an example of an individual who knew he
was flying the airplane, not ATC. Albeit a poor one...... We landed that
time with our legal, 1000# of gas (30 min at cruise), like we always did.
If we weren't going to, he would have declared (I hope), but 1000# was
barely 2 circuits around the pattern in the jet commander. The other lesson
that could be learned from this story is that just because 30 minutes fuel
at cruise is "legal," it may not be enough.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L. Coats" <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual or electric flaps (6a) |
Here is my .02c (NZ) worth. I fly a -6 with manual flaps and like Mark
below set them up so the handle at the zero degree was just off the floor.
I don't have to look at the ASI to know if I am putting the flaps down at
too fast a speed! I can get 40 degree required if I am below the 87 KTS
without too much trouble (I am one of the fairer sexes!) and like Tom find
it useful to dump the flap very rapidly on some occassions. I like the
simplicity of the manual system and it suits my type of flying - if you are
into to electrical circuits build the electric system otherwise the manual
system is less expensive!
Louise RV6 246.3hr
In the flaps up
>position, my flap handle was 2 or 3" above the floor boards. I installed
>longer flap push rods and cut new notches in the flap support bracket so
>that in the flaps up position, the end of the flap handle would rest about
>1/2" above the floor. This small change made all the difference in the
>world. I was now able pull for full flaps, even at higher airspeeds (Vfe).
>After 30 or 40 flying hours, I decided that I preferred the manual flaps,
>and I returned the electric flap kit to Van's for a credit.
>
>I personally like the instant on/off capability of manual flaps. Tom Green
>at Van's has manual flaps in his airplane. He says that to get into some
>remote strips, he needs to be able to dump the flaps immediately at
>touchdown. (These are flying skills that I have yet to learn.) My rework
>of the flap support bracket left notches in other places in addition to 0,
>50 and 100%. I find these other flap positions occasionally useful. If I
>was building another RV-6, I would go with manual flaps with set positions
>of 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100%.
>
>Pilot/passenger size, seat cushion thickness, and seat back position will
>also have an influence on the ease (or difficulty) of using manual flaps.
>In the final analysis, I believe that the decision to go with manual or
>electric flaps is one of personal preference.
>
>Mark
>Green Bay, WI
>RV-6; flying, 180 hours
>(working on my first annual inspection)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | Bottom fiberglass rudder cap |
Heya Sam,
Very nice website!
What kind of filler did you use to make the creases go away?
Nick Knobil
Bowdoinham, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
The thread on landing into the sun reminded me of a scary experience I
had a few years ago. Landed at a grass strip with my partner in the
plane, a C-175. Traded places to depart, and he started taxiing down
to the west end of the field for an east departure. I voiced my
concern about taking off uphill in wet long grass with tall trees a
few hundred yards off the end of the runway, but he didn't want to
take off into the sun. So after reviewing short/soft field procedures
and agreeing on an abort point, we went for it. Got off right at the
abort point, the trees were coming up too fast, I was calling out Vy
over and over, and we cleared those trees by about 10 feet. Scared
the $#&^ out of me.
The moral of the story is, if all other things are NOT equal, choose
the Sun or wait till it goes down....!
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Important Phrases |
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: WAS: Bad landings & Authority NOW: Important Phrases
>As for ATC, along time ago from an old-timer told me, the most important
>word in aviation is "unable." Don't say, "I, uh, well, I, uh would
prefer,
>maybe, like if you could let me try, that runway over there, that is sorta
>pointed towards the wind." When ATC tell you to do something that you are
>not comfortable with just respond, "unable." They will ask you why and
>then tell them.
>
I have the following phrases on my abbreviated yoke checklist in my Skyhawk:
Unable!
Stand by one.
Center (approach, departure, tower), 84V is deviating (R/L) for safety
Center (approach, departure, tower), 84V is climbing (descending) for safety
84V has minimum fuel status (not an emergency yet, but no delays)
I'll cancel my IFR on the ground
Request (no gyro) ASR apch with recommended altitude callouts
I'm declaring an emergency!
Just remember, never in the history of aviation has a controller in a tower
crashed as a result of ignoring his duties as PIC!
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher B. Olsen" <colsen(at)compus.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8A joy ride |
J VanGrunsven wrote:
>
> This evening I got to fly the new RV-8A for the first time. The flight was
> for one delightful hour of cruising, slow flight, a whole bunch of stalls,
> wing overs, rolls, cuban 8s, and octaflugerons (untitled but pure fun
> maneuvers of all sorts that excite the soul) and 5 landings (2 on
> pavement, 3 on grass). Just one word discribes this newest anti-gravity
> machine from Van's "skunk works"; DELIGHTFUL, EXCITING, SENSIBLE,
> DESIRABLE, , PRACTICAL, take your choice. And yes, I like the nose wheel.
Sounds like fun. I think I am leaning towards the 8A myself. The sorta matching
N numbers are pretty cool. How about a little more info on the ship. What
engine
are they using. Also a far as I could tell from the pictures on the web site the
cowl
seems to be a different. Is this true, or just a trick played by the lighting?
Chris Olsen
Tooling Up 8A ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Paint |
>
> What are the basic differences between the way cars are typically
> painted and the way airplanes are painted?
>
Cars are painted at much less expense.
Oops, not true. Compare costs of a very good auto paint job and an airplane
paint job - much closer than most car/airplane whatever costs.
Cars are steel while airplanes are aluminum and fiberglass.
Oops again, not true. There are cars built entirely of fiberglass and aluminum.
I don't know for sure but I don't thing they are painted with airplane stuff
etc.
Cars spend more time outdoors in weather and sun so need better paint. ??
Airplanes are often not primed whereas cars always are.
A paint salesman from Alumnigrip came to our EAA chapter meeting and talked up
their stuff (about $300 per gallon!) He said airplane paint is more flexible
than auto paint and needs to be & that auto paint will crack & deteriorate
sooner. I wonder.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> |
donspawn(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
> My hangar concrete is always dry. The one across from me is built the same EXCEPT
it has been painted. I visited the other day. No rain, but
> humid that day & the neighbor's floor was very wet with water?
>
> Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx
>
Don:
Just speculating:
Could it be that your hangar is oriented to the sun in such a way that
your floor warms up, where your neighbors faces away from the sun and
remains cold. When the temprerature and humidity rises, the cold floor
condenses the warm moist air. The paint does not allow the moisture to
absorb into the concrete and beads up on top.
martin shorman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
I recall the article and others very well about the hypnotic state that
will befall certain individuals due to strobe effect.
Strobe effect hypnosis can be induced by lights, a slow turning prop
between the veiwer and a light source (the sun low in the sky), or any
other even pulsing of light.
It may be very pronounced or subliminal.
Proffessionals theorize after the fact that many seemingly unexplained
stall/spin
accidents may have been caused by a hypnosis brought on by strobe.
Some studies even link the problem to petimal epileptic seisures.
Having said that,I guess Just Being Aware is the answer.
Air traffic controllers pull the blinds on thier tower and just do
not think of the problem seeing to land into the sun at sunset or sunrise
for that matter.
If you think that you will have a problem seeing the runway because of the
low sun angle dont land, go around, or hold out until the sun sets.
If the wind is not a factor as it often isnt at sunrise or sunset
ask to land on another runway if you have one available.
Happy Landings
LKDRV8Wannabee
________________________________________________________________________________
<34D7C17F.91C(at)greenapple.com>
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Listers,
Flicker vertigo is a phenomena that can also get you when landing with
the sun at your back, low on the horizon---- if the backs of your
propeller blades are not painted flat black. I have experienced this
once. Some of the wooden prop makers out there do not paint the backs of
the blades flat black ( Prince, for one ).
Regards, Bill, N66WD
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I am curious about one thing. Leo, you said you got "big friend and we
>put the prop in coarse". Was the "big friend" there to help twist
>the blades brute force? Maybe a dumb question, but I have a new
>prop and engine like you and don't know of a way to change pitch
>without running the engine. Are you saying you just reef it around?
>
>One more thing. Van's seems to be eternally 3-6 months out on
>Hartzell props (for O-360 anyway), so for anyone who is planning to
>get one, be sure you take the long lead time into account.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>randall(at)edt.com
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>
>
>
One way to do this is to use a large C clamp to clamp a board (approx. 2
feet long) to the back side of a prop blade near the tip
Use another block under the other part of the clamp so you wont mess up
your expensive prop.) and then use it as a handle to twist the prop.
2 people twisting on the blades with there hands also works but the board
makes it much easier.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Keep in mind that the whole shebang will settle about .250" at the
>prop flange
>after your first few flights. This opens the top gap and closes the
>bottom.
>If you feel that you need more and can't get it any other way, you
>could shim
>the engine mount at the firewall using some fender washers.
>
>
Leo,
My experience is that the engine usually sags approx. 1/8 if you use new
lord mounts (dynafocal) at installation. If you use old ones all bets
are off.
The engine for the RV-8A was the one removed from the blue RV-8.
The old (300 hrs. or so) mounts were used and in the first 20 hours the
spinner bulkhead has moved downward maybe 1/16 in.
I think you are probably fine with 1/8 in. gap on your spinner to cowl
clearance as long as this is the closest point and it is not the bottom
(which could get even a little closer with engine sag)
I know of a number of RV's with about an 1/8 and they have no problems.
The smallest gap possible will give you the least drag possible at this
point.
The solution you have mentioned for gaining clearance sounds like a good
one if you decide that you would feel better with just a little more gap.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Hargrave" <Bobby.Hargrave(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
index
end
Bob Hargrave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | paul lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu> |
Thanks for all the replies on and off the list to my question about the
relative merits of electric or manual flaps. I am going to stay with
manual flaps with two minor changes. 1- I will make the flap rods longer
so the "Johnson bar" is as close to the floor as is comfortable and, 2- I
will cut 4 detents in the selector "bannana" for more deflection choices
(ie 0, 25, 50, 75, and 100% ).
Besides, I just spent the whole evening adding mounts for crotch straps
to my almost finished interior and I have told myself " no more
retrofits - finish it first !"
Cheers ,
Paul
6A, IO360, Tip Up, A-D prop ..oh, and manual flaps too.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Graf <markgraf(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Bottom fiberglass rudder cap: |
Nicholas Knobil wrote:
>
>
> I have notched out the bottom fiberglass rudder cap to clear the control
> horn. The result, a square hole through the rudder. Can and should
> this be closed up? Or is there some other purpose to it?
>
Due to the possibility of intake of water/slush and the resulting weight
that far back, I put some silicon (RTV) over the slot. The rudder still
has a small drain hole in the bottom.
Mark Graf
N71CG 150 hp
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bottom fiberglass rudder cap |
Nicholas Knobil wrote:
>
>
> Heya Sam,
>
> Very nice website!
>
> What kind of filler did you use to make the creases go away?
>
> Nick Knobil
> Bowdoinham, Maine
Thanks!
Lightweight body filler from the aviation department of the local
Autozone.....and a couple sheets of 400 wet-or-dry.
Sam
ad? My understanding is that Vy gets you up faster, but Vx
gets you up more steeply, which seems to be what's called for in that
situation.
I shudder to think of the possibilities here: a V-speed thread, ushering in
the dreaded Vx / Vy wars! It all comes of having too much time to 'Internet'
and not enough time to pound rivets. Back to work, all of you!
Bill B (six weeks to go?)
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello list:
Its me, the rudder man again! I am trying to get the rudder horn
brace, part R410, into position to drill it to the rudder horn and the
bottom rudder rib. I made a cardboard pattern that fit quite nicely and
traced it onto the pre-bent R410. Everything fit well, except that I
have a gap of about 3/16" between R410 and the rib flange at the front
of the rudder, and about 3/32" at the aft end on both sides of the part.
A call to Vans resulted in the recommendation to flare the edges of R410
out, and then bend a parallel tab to butt up against the rib flange. I
have tried for the life of me to get nice even contact between R410 and
the rib flange, but I can only get the first two rivet holes in the rib
flange to make contact, with the last hole still having a tad of a gap.
If anyone else had this problem, what was your solution? The way I
look at it, I can either try to insert a shim just at this last hole to
support the skin/rudder flange, or I can dimple the rudder flange, but
omit countersinking the hole in R410, thus taking up the space of the
gap with the dimple. Also, did you use the CS4-4 blind rivets here as
indicated on the plans? Seems to me that if you cut the opional
lightening hole (from what I have read, it is a necessity), you should
be able to get in there with a small bucking bar to use an AN rivet.(?)
As always, thanks for your help.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A ser. no. 25171 rudder
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash) |
| Subject: | Re: Soundproofing Light Aircraft |
<74730.1417(at)CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>>There appear to be at least three sources of soundproofing
>>materials which focus on homebuilt aircraft:
>>
>>Aircraft Reman (Bill Nash) publishes a booklet "SoundProofing The
>>Light Aircraft" and sells "The SuperSoundProofing Mat".
>>
>>EAR offers various materials for sound suppression.
>>
>>Soundcoat Co. has a large array of sound suppression materials.
>>
>>Which of these is best ?
>>
>>--
>>Vaso Bovan, PE
>>Bovan Associates
>>94043-2990
>>
Obviously, from my point of view, Super Soundproofing Mat is best!
However, it IS FAA approved and has been a standard for aircraft use
for almost 10 years.
To get the booklet, contact me or access the web site below for an
online copy.
(We have other products in addition to the mat, which are designed for
aircraft (and other vehicle) soundproofing)
("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Will Nash
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Super Soundproofing Co.
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1291 E. Vista Way, #150
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760)-749-7049
(((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)connectnet.com
SoundProofing Web Site: http://aircraft_r.321media.com/sphome.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
Take heart all ye who don't land perfect every time. I have found, by
examination, and also phone calls to those who should know that the RV has
a very robust gear. It will take a lot. I was very busy during that bad
arrival, so I really can't say if I bounced once or twice, but it was high
enough like a diver at the high arc of the diving board. I'm not kidding.
When she started to go over on one wing, I opened the tap and she took off
like a cat with a rock thrown at it. Even though I forgot to raise flap. I
pulled the cowl and found all OK. There was no broken fibreglass or welds.
I was asked if I tore off the fairings or hit the prop.
Or if the starter ring left a groove in the cowl. No. I guess I got off
lucky. I even thought of getting out of this altogether, but felt better
when the next day broke bright and blue...Just 5 days before, I painted the
back of the prop black, and there was still lots of flicker (could have
been worse) I made the mistake of cutting down the flap lever, so I'm going
to fix that pronto. I notice too that the tower has nice shades and uses
them. Pretty in the evening. I will never again be shy about asking for a
runway change or making up my mind that I am waiting too long by dragging
it in long and low before going around for a better try. I am not landing
on a carrier even though that is how we all landed at our primitive strip
years ago. Bad old habits. Thank God and Van too that I get another chance
to fly better and enjoy it..Austin..lots older..little wiser...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
>>I am curious about one thing. Leo, you said you got "big friend and we
>>put the prop in coarse". Was the "big friend" there to help twist
>>the blades brute force? Maybe a dumb question, but I have a new
>>prop and engine like you and don't know of a way to change pitch
>>without running the engine. Are you saying you just reef it around?
>>Randall Henderson, RV-6
>One way to do this is to use a large C clamp to clamp a board (approx. 2
>feet long) to the back side of a prop blade near the tip
>Use another block under the other part of the clamp so you wont mess up
>your expensive prop.) and then use it as a handle to twist the prop.
>2 people twisting on the blades with there hands also works but the board
>makes it much easier.
>Scott McDaniels
Please Scott, Clamp it near the *ROOT* please. Ever seen how they adjust
fixed pitch props at a prop shop? This method of clamping long boards near
the tip is pretty darn close to the procedure they use to twist the pitch
into or out of a fixed pitch prop during OH.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv8 angle stock |
Greetings RV-8ers
My wing kit has 3 pieces of 063x3/4x3/4x12' angle alum. I need less than 30"
for the wing tie down assembly which I am ready to do but I fear cutting these
long pieces for such short needs. Can this truly be the plan? And what of
the other 33' of which I can find only a need for about 2 more feet? The
15'2" longerons are safely put away.
Thanks in advance for peace of mind.
Dennis Clay, rearin to build some more airplane parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hard Bounces |
Austin Tinckler wrote:
>
Austin,
Many pilots have a bigger ego than they have ability. In your case I
feel that you have more humilty than ability but are not too proud to
share your your frailty. A vertue I must admit is very rare and I'm sure
is greatly appreciated by those who also have failed. Your a good asset
to this list. I'm also certain that you'll be a good pilot as you
overcome these short comings. I love to read your posts.
Keep the blue side up
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy William Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | MY NEW Website/RV-8A Pix |
Greetings All,
After announcing I would put some RV-8A pictures on my personal web site,
I decided I finally needed to get my personal web site done.
Well, for better or worse, it's done. Nothing plain, nothing fancy.
Check it out and tell me what you think -- jwb(at)europa.com
Oh yeah, there's also 18 RV-8A pictures on the site. The pictures aren't
perfect, I'll try to re-download them this weekend when I have time to
troubleshoot (they are too dark).
Here it is: http://lhotse.up.edu/~jbenedic
Enjoy,
Jeremy
jwb(at)europa.com
Disclaimer: The RV-8A photos are owned by Van's Aircraft, Inc. Although
they are owned by Van's, this web site and this display of them referenced
in the above message has nothing to do with Van's Aircraft, Inc. The
rather poor color quality of the pictures is my fault and should not
reflect upon Van's Aircraft, Inc. in any way shape or form.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | fire extinguishers |
I am about to install a fire extinguisher and am wondering if the small 1
pound units are big enough. The next size is 3 pounds and it is physically
a lot bigger and so hard to mount in a small cockpit, any comments about the
effectiveness of the small unit would be appreciated.
Tom martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
I used small c-clamps to pull the tabs into position while I drilled and
clecoed. It does not take a lot of tension to pull an aluminum part
3/16". Just be sure you drill the spar and rib web first so that the
angle doesn't change.
Also, I used the pop rivets but I am not being a fanatic about avoiding
them in my aircraft (I did use AN rivets in my wing walk). Either
should be just fine.
PatK - RV-6A
jorear(at)mari.net wrote:
>
> Its me, the rudder man again! I am trying to get the rudder horn
> brace, part R410, into position to drill it to the rudder horn and the
> bottom rudder rib. I made a cardboard pattern that fit quite nicely and
> traced it onto the pre-bent R410. Everything fit well, except that I
> have a gap of about 3/16" between R410 and the rib flange at the front
> of the rudder, and about 3/32" at the aft end on both sides of the part.
*** Rest of post snipped ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
I drilled the trim tab, and did not realize that it had moved, and now the
tab is about 1/16" past the trailing edge of the elevator. It is still
straight, just the trailing edges do not quite line up. Does anyone think
that this will pose an aerodynamic disturbance?
Thanks in advance.
Paul Besing
RV-6A
Trim systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
ri.net>
> R410... gap... between R410 and the rib flange... what was your solution?
I borrowed a hardwood form and some 0.040 2024 alclad from a local guy and
made a new wider 410. It worked out great. The form block can be made with
a band saw and router to radius the corner. Make it to fit closely inside
the rib, clamp the aluminum to the form through tool holes with screws and
a bearing block of wood.
> did you use the CS4-4 blind rivets here as indicated on the plans?...
should be able to get in there with a small bucking bar.
I used CS4-4. My bucking skills would not work with such a small bar and
difficult access and 1/8" rivets.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A 25088,
elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Important Phrases |
>I have the following phrases on my abbreviated yoke checklist in my Skyhawk:
>
>Unable!
>Stand by one.
>Center (approach, departure, tower), 84V is deviating (R/L) for safety
>Center (approach, departure, tower), 84V is climbing (descending) for safety
>84V has minimum fuel status (not an emergency yet, but no delays)
>I'll cancel my IFR on the ground
>Request (no gyro) ASR apch with recommended altitude callouts
>I'm declaring an emergency!
>
>Just remember, never in the history of aviation has a controller in a tower
>crashed as a result of ignoring his duties as PIC!
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
>Barrington, IL
Right on the money Dennis. I have had occasion in the good old days
to lock horns with center when it came to safety. They have there problems,
but I figure, as Dennis says, the center rarely crashes or even bounces.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | fire extinguishers |
I would also like to see some opinions on the best site for the fire extinguisher.
I have mine in the mid line, behind the seats, and it would be hard to get it
in a panic situation.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
Hi Tom,
I'm certified by the state to service fire extinguishers for the past 13
years so feel I'm qualified to answer.
I feel one pound is too small. Especially if its also used for the
engine. I plan on using a 5 lb extinguisher and even then, don't believe
its enough. If I'm sitting in a cockpit at 5000 ft with a fire, I would
be hoping I had 50 or 60 lbs of the stuff. Everything is a compromise
isn't it?
In the engine compartment, (at 150 mph) the gale blowing through, would
keep any small amount of extinguishing agent, ineffective. You need to
think , where can a fire start, then aim at that spot with the nozzle.
Flood the area with lots of extinguishing agent in a short time.
Hope this helps.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks California
You wrote:
I am about to install a fire extinguisher and am wondering if the small 1
pound units are big enough. The next size is 3 pounds and it is
physically
a lot bigger and so hard to mount in a small cockpit, any comments about
the
effectiveness of the small unit would be appreciated.
Tom martin
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DJKKS502 <DJKKS502(at)aol.com> |
I drilled the trim tab, and did not realize that it had moved, and now the
tab is about 1/16" past the trailing edge of the elevator.
Paul
The trim tab being just that amount off won't affect a thing. It might bug
you a little, and maybe cause that one in a million jerk to comment (but who
cares about them anyway). My advise is to get it flying and rebuild it later,
if you want. But I warn you, once you fly it you won't care about all this
small stuff. Unless your after trophies or something.
Don RV-4 N144DN Good Luck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>I drilled the trim tab,and now the tab is about 1/16" past the trailing
edge of >the elevator. Will this pose an aerodynamic disturbance?
Paul: NO! Just leave it. One person will notice (after we all forget this
post) and that will be you. If you are STILL not happy with it, Van sells
just the trim tab skin.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
John, I have a one pound halelon? extinguisher mounted on the front side of the
brace between the seats
(RV-6A with manual flaps).. It is out of the way, but I can reach it and unsnap
strap with one hand,
still somewhat clumsy to get at, but probably easier than trying to reach over
the back of the seats.
Ed
John Cocker wrote:
> I would also like to see some opinions on the best site for the fire extinguisher.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fire extinguishers |
John Cocker wrote:
>
>
> I would also like to see some opinions on the best site for the fire extinguisher.
> I have mine in the mid line, behind the seats, and it would be hard to get it
in a panic situation.
> John
>
> Regarding fire extinugisher placement: I put a gift of a small halon extinguisher
on the left of the fuselage, immediately forward of the instrument panel,
at about knee height. It doesn't interfere with leg room, can be reached without
unbuckling the shoulder harness and is just where you can get at it in a
big hurry. Also, use halon only...lots of other stuff works on one or two types
of fire only. Mostly I was concerned about the most likely type of fire, that
of electrical, so I hope you use approved aircraft insulated wiring.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Hello Danmark/Germany |
Canadian RV builder flying to Frankfurt April 29th, then driving to Denmark
for two week holiday. Would be interested in visiting RV projects or
interesting airfields along the way, and also while the wife refreshes her
Danish with relatives.
Anyone interested, or with information or tips please reply off list to
gmcnutt(at)compuserve.com
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
RV6A - Wings, mounting Navaid autopilot servo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
From: Department of Encouragement
Re: Your new airplane: your gonna love it
Test period: the Forty Hours is over!! It didn't seem to take that long.
This is such a cool airplane the time just sailed by. Am I really through
with the test period? No. As I said before, even the forty hours didn't seem
as though it was going to be enough. Was it adequate for assuring the FAA
(and myself) that the airplane demonstrated "no hazardous operating
characteristics or design features and is safe for operation" (you have to
write this in your log when the test period is over)? Yes. We kind of knew
that to begin with. But every airplane is made by a different manufacturer
and must be test flown to demonstrate that.
I still have a lot of flying to do. I want to KNOW this airplane. And what a
grand time I've had already; this is going to be a good friend. I need more
accurate data for RPM/speed/altitude curves. Which mean more time trials.
These, if done right, take quite a bit of time. As do climb trials. I still
need data for flights under 5000 feet. If I do any testing not already
demonstrated and logged in the test flight log, I am again restricted to the
test flight area. Time trials? No, as I have demonstrated them safely
already. This would include any further G testing or aerobatic manuvers I
need to further explore. I am not happy with my glide figures yet as I
didn't want to do extended glides from altitude at idle with an OAT of 1-2C.
All of which means I have to go out and FLY some more. And you know how I
hate doing that!!
And with the test period up, I just got back from my FIRST CROSS-COUNTRY!
Quite the trip, actually. Denver to Leveland. Texas. (Isn't it ALL level
land in west Texas?) What a great flying machine this is! The main problem I
found: this airplane goes too fast. (!) Sectional maps flying all over the
place as I raced off of one onto another. I STILL like sectionals, though. I
have this obsession with knowing where I am. Still draw the line and follow
it. Found out several things on this flight:
Maps: take sectionals and WAC both to cover the area you are flying. This
airplane goes so fast you may need an alternate airport not on the map your
line is drawn on.
GPS: it is not infallible. Or maybe it is the operator. I had a flight plan
programed in and hit "reverse" to come back home and it was getting me
further off course the further I flew. How did I know? The Line on the
sectional. What was the problem? The flight program has three legs to dogleg
around DIA and the GPS needed to have the "to" flight plan deactivated first
before the "return" was properly entered. Was trying to take me directly
home. Over DIA. Yikes. Figured it out pretty soon, though. Won't happen again.
Trim: I have manual trim and really like the minute adjustments I can make
as I scoot along. Found that the faster you go, the more sensitive
adjustments are. Move the trim a little and you are suddenly
at
a
different altitude.
Trim: it is nice, once your airplane is flying, to have gotten the airplane
in perfect trim. Helps to build it straight, too. Once in trim, just a
FINGER on the stick (I put mine on the shelf of the Infinity stick grip) is
all you need to fly, making small little adjustments. A fast flying airplane
offers a challange to keep in the 100 foot altitude margin. What a blast.
Aileron trim: don't have it. Didn't need it. Dean Hall has his own aileron
trim design on the trailing edge of the wing tip and he says it is the one
thing he thought was too much effort for the benefit. I keep tanks switched
every half hour. Helps keep the airplane in balance and awareness of fuel
status current (if you don't have Matt's flow meter). Never noticed an out
of trim problem.
Fuel: I am used to a 6+ hour endurance on the Cub (36 gal @ 5-6gph). Three
hours in the -4 and you should be on the ground or have a good alternate
plan. Which is my bladder/butt limit anyway. And usually you are at your
destination by then (see the posts about more fuel on board). At 2500 rpm I
went through 8.8 gal/hour and tore throught the sky at between 160-170 knots
GPS down and back. Wow. Until I got into the wind.
Down: no problem. Return: that front/low garbage that is now plaguing the
mountain states was a problem. Landed at La Junta, CO (old B-25 training
base) and waited for DEN to clear (Ha! It never did) and took off in a 30
knot wind with no problems ("accidently" had to use the taxiway for takeoff
as it was the only piece of hardpad pointing into the wind; all but one
runway were closed due to construction. Do what you have to do to be safe).
Just over 2.5 hours going down, longer coming back because of weather
diversions.
This is a fantastic all around airplane. It flys great when you are out
doging around and yet zooms you to a cross-country destination. In decent
comfort, I might add. Back when I was trying to decide on a design, I had no
idea then how right my choice would turn out to be. Thanks, Van.
You flyers going to S&F: fly safe, don't push your personal limits. You
builders going: take LOTS of photos of RV parts: the underwing inboard
section of the flaps; landing lights; canopys; cowlings; wingtips; etc. I
found one of the MOST useful resources was photos of sections of other
airplanes, not just the whole airplane. My photo file is arranged by
section: wings, tail, trim, canopy, etc.
The List wants reports, too, when you get home.
Keep building; keep getting to know your airplane.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Exploring the relationship
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F&C Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Flicker Vertigo |
<34D7C17F.91C(at)greenapple.com> <19980415.203622.10710.0.rvpilot(at)juno.com>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------C9BB0BD7E3FA5AA7EA259733
This phenomenon is a very real problem when flying helicopters at night
and in the clouds. Especially if you leave the rotor head light on.
The strobe effect is immense.
Fred
--------------C9BB0BD7E3FA5AA7EA259733
begin: vcard
fn: Fred & Carolynn Hiatt
n: Hiatt;Fred & Carolynn
email;internet: hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu
note: RV-6A
version: 2.1
end: vcard
--------------C9BB0BD7E3FA5AA7EA259733--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Great story...what motivation..time to go build some more!!!!
>
>From: Department of Encouragement
>Re: Your new airplane: your gonna love it
>
>Test period: the Forty Hours is over!! It didn't seem to take that long.
>This is such a cool airplane the time just sailed by. Am I really through
>with the test period? No. As I said before, even the forty hours didn't seem
>as though it was going to be enough. Was it adequate for assuring the FAA
>(and myself) that the airplane demonstrated "no hazardous operating
>characteristics or design features and is safe for operation" (you have to
>write this in your log when the test period is over)? Yes. We kind of knew
>that to begin with. But every airplane is made by a different manufacturer
>and must be test flown to demonstrate that.
>
>I still have a lot of flying to do. I want to KNOW this airplane. And what a
>grand time I've had already; this is going to be a good friend. I need more
>accurate data for RPM/speed/altitude curves. Which mean more time trials.
>These, if done right, take quite a bit of time. As do climb trials. I still
>need data for flights under 5000 feet. If I do any testing not already
>demonstrated and logged in the test flight log, I am again restricted to the
>test flight area. Time trials? No, as I have demonstrated them safely
>already. This would include any further G testing or aerobatic manuvers I
>need to further explore. I am not happy with my glide figures yet as I
>didn't want to do extended glides from altitude at idle with an OAT of 1-2C.
>All of which means I have to go out and FLY some more. And you know how I
>hate doing that!!
>
>And with the test period up, I just got back from my FIRST CROSS-COUNTRY!
>Quite the trip, actually. Denver to Leveland. Texas. (Isn't it ALL level
>land in west Texas?) What a great flying machine this is! The main problem I
>found: this airplane goes too fast. (!) Sectional maps flying all over the
>place as I raced off of one onto another. I STILL like sectionals, though. I
>have this obsession with knowing where I am. Still draw the line and follow
>it. Found out several things on this flight:
>
>Maps: take sectionals and WAC both to cover the area you are flying. This
>airplane goes so fast you may need an alternate airport not on the map your
>line is drawn on.
>
>GPS: it is not infallible. Or maybe it is the operator. I had a flight plan
>programed in and hit "reverse" to come back home and it was getting me
>further off course the further I flew. How did I know? The Line on the
>sectional. What was the problem? The flight program has three legs to dogleg
>around DIA and the GPS needed to have the "to" flight plan deactivated first
>before the "return" was properly entered. Was trying to take me directly
>home. Over DIA. Yikes. Figured it out pretty soon, though. Won't happen
again.
>
>Trim: I have manual trim and really like the minute adjustments I can make
>as I scoot along. Found that the faster you go, the more sensitive
>adjustments are. Move the trim a little and you are suddenly
> at
> a
> different altitude.
>
>Trim: it is nice, once your airplane is flying, to have gotten the airplane
>in perfect trim. Helps to build it straight, too. Once in trim, just a
>FINGER on the stick (I put mine on the shelf of the Infinity stick grip) is
>all you need to fly, making small little adjustments. A fast flying airplane
>offers a challange to keep in the 100 foot altitude margin. What a blast.
>
>Aileron trim: don't have it. Didn't need it. Dean Hall has his own aileron
>trim design on the trailing edge of the wing tip and he says it is the one
>thing he thought was too much effort for the benefit. I keep tanks switched
>every half hour. Helps keep the airplane in balance and awareness of fuel
>status current (if you don't have Matt's flow meter). Never noticed an out
>of trim problem.
>
>Fuel: I am used to a 6+ hour endurance on the Cub (36 gal @ 5-6gph). Three
>hours in the -4 and you should be on the ground or have a good alternate
>plan. Which is my bladder/butt limit anyway. And usually you are at your
>destination by then (see the posts about more fuel on board). At 2500 rpm I
>went through 8.8 gal/hour and tore throught the sky at between 160-170 knots
>GPS down and back. Wow. Until I got into the wind.
>
>Down: no problem. Return: that front/low garbage that is now plaguing the
>mountain states was a problem. Landed at La Junta, CO (old B-25 training
>base) and waited for DEN to clear (Ha! It never did) and took off in a 30
>knot wind with no problems ("accidently" had to use the taxiway for takeoff
>as it was the only piece of hardpad pointing into the wind; all but one
>runway were closed due to construction. Do what you have to do to be safe).
>Just over 2.5 hours going down, longer coming back because of weather
>diversions.
>
>This is a fantastic all around airplane. It flys great when you are out
>doging around and yet zooms you to a cross-country destination. In decent
>comfort, I might add. Back when I was trying to decide on a design, I had no
>idea then how right my choice would turn out to be. Thanks, Van.
>
>You flyers going to S&F: fly safe, don't push your personal limits. You
>builders going: take LOTS of photos of RV parts: the underwing inboard
>section of the flaps; landing lights; canopys; cowlings; wingtips; etc. I
>found one of the MOST useful resources was photos of sections of other
>airplanes, not just the whole airplane. My photo file is arranged by
>section: wings, tail, trim, canopy, etc.
>
>The List wants reports, too, when you get home.
>
>Keep building; keep getting to know your airplane.
>
>Michael
>RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
>Exploring the relationship
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: rv8 angle stock |
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, DenClay wrote:
> My wing kit has 3 pieces of 063x3/4x3/4x12' angle alum. I need less than 30"
> for the wing tie down assembly which I am ready to do but I fear cutting these
> long pieces for such short needs. Can this truly be the plan? And what of
> the other 33' of which I can find only a need for about 2 more feet? The
> 15'2" longerons are safely put away.
Dunno about the RV-8, but the -6 has numerous spreader angles and rib
reinforcement angles to be made from this stuff IIRC.
I asked Vans about the 10'10" pieces at one point... they said they're
merely offcuts from the 14'2" longerons -- Vans gets there angle in 25'
lengths. Perhaps a couple of your pieces are 9'10" long?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
<3534EEBD.314E(at)netins.net>
When the temprerature and humidity rises, the cold floor
>condenses the warm moist air. The paint does not allow the moisture to
>absorb into the concrete and beads up on top.
>
>martin shorman
>
I face South & he is north. I think you are right. Maybe the painted
floor's hanger needs a fan in there to evaporate the water. I see all the
beatiful Beech & cessna hangers that are painted & very clean. Maybe
because of there 900 foot ceilings.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx
donspawn(at)juno.com
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
> Randall: wouldn't you have cleared those trees by a wider margin if you had
> called out Vx instead?
Dang! I should have known I'd get dinged on something like that.
Yes of course I was calling out best angle, whichever V that is. I
can never keep the Vs straight. Ast least I know the diff. between
best angle and best climb.
Man, you can't get away with ANYTHING on this list! :-)
Randall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rv8 angle stock |
I also have had the same concerns about cutting the wrong piece of stock.
When you read your plans it tells you to "Make from", unfortunately that
length is the piece you will cut off. I cut one of my shorter fuse
longerons too short and had to order a new one because I was afraid to cut
the 6' pieces I had. I mentioned this to John Morgan and suggested that
they tell us which pieces to cut for which part, he said it sounded like a
good idea, and would mention it to the guys an Van's. I think we should
all suggest this to Van's because if you do screw up, it can be very
difficult to get a replacement piece. (it is hard to ship)
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
Congradulations Mike. Now you have to get it painted.
RVer273sb stew to you
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Wentworth Aircraft Parts |
I recently bought a used IO-360-B1E from Wentworth and have talked to them
at least once a week since. I dealt with Dave and am not happy. I have no
problems with the engine I purchased or the price but I had some problems
with some charges that were supposed to be credited to me and some
additional parts we were to exchange. I was told things would be shipped
by a certain date and even told they were on the way, when in fact they
were not, and sometimes took three calls over two weeks to get them
shipped. I have waited for a credit for four months and an intake tube for
two months, all which were "no problem". Today I talked to Steve (the
owner) and he was very helpful. I think we have resolved all my problems
and he was not aware of the problems I was having and was willing to do
what ever it took to make me happy. He said a lot of his business is from
hombuilders and RV's, and believes that service after the sale is just as
important as before. I believe he means it. If I find that all my
problems are now solved, I will not hesitate to deal with them again, but
not with Dave.
I noticed that people on the list have mixed feelings about Wentworth and
would be interested in hearing what problems they had and who they dealt
with there. Maybe the problem is with one or two salesman. I know Steve
would be interested and is planning on monitoring this list for problems
with service. So if you have dealt with them let me know how you made out.
Maybe we can show some of these companies the power of the internet.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
> Yes of course I was calling out best angle, whichever V that is. I
> can never keep the Vs straight.
Vx - X has all the sharp angles (best angle)
Vy - Y kinda lays down flatter
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bad landings & Authority |
Heres my fail proof method. They are in alphabetical order.
x comes before y, a(ngle) comes before r(ate)
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
<3.0.1.32.19980415233041.00fe4cd8(at)pop.mindspring.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>One way to do this is to use a large C clamp to clamp a board
>(approx. 2
>>feet long) to the back side of a prop blade near the tip
>>Use another block under the other part of the clamp so you wont mess
>up
>>your expensive prop.) and then use it as a handle to twist the prop.
>>2 people twisting on the blades with there hands also works but the
>board
>>makes it much easier.
>>Scott McDaniels
>
>
>Please Scott, Clamp it near the *ROOT* please. Ever seen how they
>adjust
>fixed pitch props at a prop shop? This method of clamping long boards
>near
>the tip is pretty darn close to the procedure they use to twist the
>pitch
>into or out of a fixed pitch prop during OH.
>
>
>Bob Steward, A&P IA
>AA-1B N8978L
>AA-5A N1976L
>
>
>
Your right Bob I should have been much more specific.
I didn't really mean right at the tip but that is what I wrote.
You need to be far enough out the blade so that you have a relatively
flat area to clamp to (half way out is probably good enough)
BTW when fixed pitch props are adjusted I think they are using a pretty
good sized lever arm to do the twisting and the prop. is immobilized, in
the case of a constant speed the force required to twist is not all that
high (but don't go to the high pitch stop and then keep twisting)
Thanks for pointing this out. I don't want to provide any info that
could cause any builders other problems.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob_Ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca (Bob Ungrin) |
| Subject: | Panel Mounting a GPS |
I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is posing
somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether the unit
must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
experience in this area? Thanks in advance.
bob_ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
What size hole do I drill for a CS4-4 pop rivet?
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 Rudder, trying to make that evil 410 thing fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
jorear(at)mari.net wrote:
> > I am trying to get the rudder horn
> brace, part R410, into position to drill it to the rudder horn and the
> bottom rudder rib. I made a cardboard pattern that fit quite nicely and
> traced it onto the pre-bent R410. Everything fit well, except that I
> have a gap of about 3/16" between R410 and the rib flange at the front
> of the rudder, and about 3/32" at the aft end on both sides of the part.
>
Jeff,
Ran into the same problem. There was no way that the R410 was going to
have a nice fit! Some builders have made shims to take up the room.
Some builders used clamps and sqeeeeezed the skin and flange in to meet
the R410. Personally, I built a new one that is wider and has no gap
and fits like you would want it to fit. Took less than two hours which
is about how long I would have spent making tappered shims. I don't
think letting the dimple take up the space would be sound, IMO.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6a emp & wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
Bob Ungrin wrote:
>
>
> I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
> idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
> Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is posing
> somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether the unit
> must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
> and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
> experience in this area? Thanks in advance.
> bob_ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca
>
>
Bob,
Scott Gesele has pictures of panels on his web site(links off of
Van's). The panel on the top row, far right has a GPS built into the
panel. Double click on it to enlarge it. Thomas Rose of Halstead
Kansas built this VFR -6a and it has a lot of inovative ideas
incorporated into it. It also has a built-in hand held.
Jerry Calvert
-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chagen(at)ideasign.com (Craig Hagen) |
jorear(at)mari.net wrote:
I am trying to get the rudder horn
> brace, part R410, into position to drill it to the rudder horn and the
> bottom rudder rib.
>
>
I had the same problem. The R410 I got in the kit is too narrow... What
I did is send Van's about $5.00 for the pre-punched R410. It is a
correct fit and is mostly correct. $5.00 well spent and a comfort level
of having a good fitting part.
Chagen
RV6A just starting the elevators
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
>Heres my fail proof method. They are in alphabetical order.
>x comes before y, a(ngle) comes before r(ate)
>Dennis
And on every airplane *I* have flown (admittedly only a dozen) the Vx is
lower airspeed than Vy, so again the *FIRST* one is angle and the second
one is rate.
"Use Vy and say goodbye" (best rate) is on a sign at an airport I frequent
which has a shopping mall at the end of the runway.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
jbauer(at)dmpl.com, sabswbc(at)aol.com, LYNN_SPAIN(at)classic.msn.com
After finishing the 601 bulkhead & trying to finish the 605, I got good
news tonight. My N# was researved. Going to have to call me 76DJ from now
on.
Don Jordan ~~ 6A-fuselage ~~ Arlington,Tx
76DJ ~~ donspawn(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
| From: | Ron Caldwell <rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A Gear Interface Fairings |
I'm ready to make my gear (fuselage and wheel pant) intersection
fairings for my 6A. I plan to use modeling clay and mold release. I
have the two piece wheel pants. I assume that the fairings should be
fiberglassed to the wheel pants. If so, then I guess the fairing should
be split in half at the point where the wheel pants split. What is the
best way to secure the two halfs of this fairing when assembled for
flight? Would appreciate any ideas or suggestions for making these
fairings.
Ron Caldwell
rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
| From: | fitton(at)Juno.com (Robert D Fitton) |
I am toying with the
>idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
-
I'm planning to do the same in my RV-4. I've been in touch with John E.
Smith in Garmin Product Support. His Fax no. is (913) 397-0836. He sent
me an exploded view of the yoke mount for the -195 and it appears
feasible to remove the part that actually holds the GPS from the rest of
the yoke mount and mount it to the panel. He also included a diagram of
the pin-out. It would then be possible to use ship's power rather than
batteries and also connect to a remote antenna. With the rapid advance
in GPS technology, I'm not prepared to dedicate a hole in my panel for a
"real" panel mount.
>From the tone of you post, it sounds like you already know the info
above. But just in case.....
I'll be real interested in any responses you may get to your post if they
aren't on the open list. I'll let you know what I learn although I'm a
couple of weeks away from sending the check to Van. My off-list address
is:
fitton(at)vegas.infi.net
Good luck. It's a great idea.
Bob
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
>What size hole do I drill for a CS4-4 pop rivet?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8 Rudder, trying to make that evil 410 thing fit.
I've been drilling these to #30 holes since they're #4 rivets, but they often
fit tight.
As for the 410, I just installed mine a couple weeks ago. I used it pretty much
as it was, but added about an .063 shim between the 410 and the rib flange. I
drill countersunk the shim, and dimpled the skin and rib flange. I think it
came out about as good as could be expected for such an odd piece. Bucking the
2 inside rivets that connect the 410 to the rudder control horn was a bear
though (ugly too ). I didn't cut the lightening hole in the 410 which might
have made this easier.
Rusty
RV-8A, left elevator and expecting wings in June.
Navarre, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spinner bulkheads for 180 C/S unit |
When I worked fo piper we used to use a piece of 1 inch plywood 4 feet long
with the
blade shape cut into one end on each blade to set them to low pitch.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | oil filter recess |
I'm going to use the dog bowl in the fire wall for my oil filter recess.
Can anyone who has used one of these SS bowls tell me the approximate
dimensions for its center. My bowl is a bout 7 inches in diameter and
about 2 or 2 1/2 inches deep. It will be for the oil filter only on an
IO360.
then I'll put firewall together.
Phil Sisson at Litchfield, IL RV6-200
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
Bob
I left space just to the right of the flight instruments for mounting the
Garmin 195. It has not had to be adjustable for angle, but under some
conditions, sun through the windshield for instance, it can be very
difficult to read. Mostly its OK and I will probably mount the same unit in
the same place on my next plane. I used the mount that came with it &
drilled & tapped four screw holes in the panel. Worked great
Ted French
RV-6A C-FXCS 180 hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Ungrin <Bob_Ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca>
Date: April 16, 1998 7:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Panel Mounting a GPS
>
>I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
>idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
>Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is posing
>somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether the unit
>must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
>and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
>experience in this area? Thanks in advance.
>bob_ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "albert poon" <albertp(at)bigpond.com> |
boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01BD6A10.DAB41D60"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BD6A10.DAB41D60
hi listers,
my first time on the list. i plan to leave my rv6 unpainted except for =
the fiberglass parts which will be painted in aluminium color to match =
the metallic finish. can anyone advise re the correct polish/procedures =
to get a polished or a dulled-alum look? thanks
90% finished 90% to go
albert poon
albertp(at)bigpond.com
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BD6A10.DAB41D60
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
hi listers,
my first time on the list. i plan to =
leave my=20
rv6 unpainted except for the fiberglass parts which will be painted in =
aluminium=20
color to match the metallic finish. can anyone advise re the correct=20
polish/procedures to get a polished or a dulled-alum look? =
thanks
90% finished 90% to go
albert poon
<=
/BODY>
------=_NextPart_000_006B_01BD6A10.DAB41D60--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
>
>Hello list:
>
> Its me, the rudder man again! I am trying to get the rudder horn
>brace, part R410, into position to drill it to the rudder horn and the
>bottom rudder rib. I made a cardboard pattern that fit quite nicely and
>traced it onto the pre-bent R410. Everything fit well, except that I
>have a gap of about 3/16" between R410 and the rib flange at the front
>of the rudder, and about 3/32" at the aft end on both sides of the part.
>A call to Vans resulted in the recommendation to flare the edges of R410
>out, and then bend a parallel tab to butt up against the rib flange. I
>have tried for the life of me to get nice even contact between R410 and
>the rib flange, but I can only get the first two rivet holes in the rib
>flange to make contact, with the last hole still having a tad of a gap.
>
> If anyone else had this problem, what was your solution? The way I
>look at it, I can either try to insert a shim just at this last hole to
>support the skin/rudder flange, or I can dimple the rudder flange, but
>omit countersinking the hole in R410, thus taking up the space of the
>gap with the dimple. Also, did you use the CS4-4 blind rivets here as
>indicated on the plans? Seems to me that if you cut the opional
>lightening hole (from what I have read, it is a necessity), you should
>be able to get in there with a small bucking bar to use an AN rivet.(?)
>
>
> As always, thanks for your help.
>
>Regards,
>Jeff Orear
>RV6A ser. no. 25171 rudder
>Peshtigo, WI
>
>
Jeff,
I ended up tweaking my R410 around so that I only needed a .032" shim
between it and the rib flange. Turned out good.
Cut the lightening hole. It is not optional in my opinion. It is necessary
for access to the rivets. I was able to use AN rivets everywhere with my
squeezer through the lightening hole. I used my 3" yoke (Tatco squeezer)
with a 1/2" tall x 3/8" wide flat set and if you hold your tongue just right
and promise not to cheat on your taxes next year you can get in there to
squeeze the AN470's and the AN 426's.
Keep at it!
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Wing Spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Riveting Main Spar |
Listers,
I began driving the main spar 3/16 inch rivets yesterday. I'm using the Avery
C-Frame Tool method and I needed a way that would allow me to do it without a
helper. What I came up with is working great and may be of interest.
I simply clamped a small dolly of about 8 inches square to the spar using an
appropriately sized wood spacer. It is situated at about two feet from the
tip end and it rolls to me as I pull it. I use additional spacers to
compensate for any deviation in floor level to ensure the arbor is normal to
the spar.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Low Fuel Level Sensor |
Listers,
I am considering a Low Fuel Level warning lamp for my RV4 but do not want the
additional weight of the dedicated purpose floats. Does it sound feasible to
use the existing floats with a circuit which would monitor the voltage across
the fuel receiver units? This circuit would be an op-amp voltage comparator
and maybe a driver transistor for the lamp. At maybe 4 gallons, whatever
voltage that comes out to be, the comparator output would go to 12 Volts and
light up the lamp. There would also be a lamp test pushbutton which would put
the bulbs across the 12 Volt bus for a momentary preflight check. There would
be one lamp for each side. The weight penalty would be that of a couple
Integrated Circuits.
Any ideas on this?
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
Jeff,
> A call to Vans resulted in the recommendation to flare the edges of R410
> out, and then bend a parallel tab to butt up against the rib flange.
Sounds familiar..
> with the last hole still having a tad of a gap.
Exactly the same for me
>insert a shim just at this last hole to
> support the skin/rudder flange
.025 offcuts did the job for me
> Also, did you use the CS4-4 blind rivets here as
> indicated on the plans?
yes
> Seems to me that if you cut the opional
> lightening hole (from what I have read, it is a necessity), you should
> be able to get in there with a small bucking bar to use an AN rivet.(?)
good luck, it is a small hole. I'll stick with the CS4-4.
A question for the wider audience...
The 4 rivets attaching the 410 to the angle are also a challenge to
buck. I have considered substituting pops in this location. I contacted
vans to get approval to use the correctly sized cherrymax rivets in this
location but they would not commit to this solution.
I have been told that equivalent size Cherrymax rivets have been widely
accepted by most aircraft manufacturers as suitable for direct
replacement for all structural AN470/MS20470 and AN427/MS200427 rivets.
Is this true?
Doug Gray
RV-6 Emp still!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Good, #30 is what I wanted to hear, since that's what I drilled. My 410, of course,
doesn't fit correctly either. If I shim it on the sides, will I still be able to
use
the CS4-4 rivets? I know there are all kinds of specs for solid rivets, but what
about pop rivets? How much of the rivet needs to be sticking out the other side
of
the hole to be the correct length?
Moe Colontonio
RV-8
Russell Duffy wrote:
>
> >What size hole do I drill for a CS4-4 pop rivet?
> >
> >Moe Colontonio
> >RV-8 Rudder, trying to make that evil 410 thing fit.
>
> I've been drilling these to #30 holes since they're #4 rivets, but they often
> fit tight.
>
> As for the 410, I just installed mine a couple weeks ago. I used it pretty much
> as it was, but added about an .063 shim between the 410 and the rib flange.
I
> drill countersunk the shim, and dimpled the skin and rib flange. I think it
> came out about as good as could be expected for such an odd piece. Bucking the
> 2 inside rivets that connect the 410 to the rudder control horn was a bear
> though (ugly too ). I didn't cut the lightening hole in the 410 which might
> have made this easier.
>
> Rusty
> RV-8A, left elevator and expecting wings in June.
> Navarre, FL
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Gear Interface Fairings |
Rod:
My two piece wheel pants fairings are epoxied to the wheelpants.
Works great. The fuselage to gear leg is secured with 2 #4 screws to
the fuselage. I drilled and taped the fuselage. One on the side goes
through the 0.040 floor, 0.032 side skin, and the wd-6xx engine mount
weldment. On the bottom, the tapped screw hole is in the 0.040 floor
and 1/8" angel on the firewall.
---Ron Caldwell wrote:
>
>
> I'm ready to make my gear (fuselage and wheel pant) intersection
fairings for my 6A.
------ snip ------
I assume that the fairings should be
> fiberglassed to the wheel pants. If so, then I guess the fairing
should
> be split in half at the point where the wheel pants split. What is
the
> best way to secure the two halfs of this fairing when assembled for
> flight? Would appreciate any ideas or suggestions for making these
> fairings.
>
> Ron Caldwell
> rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
Good luck how ever you do it. There are other ways but this one works
for me.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
>I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
>idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
>Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is posing
>somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether the unit
>must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
>and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
>experience in this area? Thanks in advance.
>bob_ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca
I know that you are looking for opinions on panel mounting the Garmin 195.
FWIW, I have been using the 195 in my RV-6A by just resting it on my right
leg. It doesn't get in the way, isn't taking up real estate on the panel,
is connected to the aircraft's power and works just fine this way.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor |
>I am considering a Low Fuel Level warning lamp for my RV4 but do not want the
>additional weight of the dedicated purpose floats. Does it sound feasible to
>use the existing floats with a circuit which would monitor the voltage across
>the fuel receiver units? This circuit would be an op-amp voltage comparator
>and maybe a driver transistor for the lamp. At maybe 4 gallons, whatever
>voltage that comes out to be, the comparator output would go to 12 Volts and
>light up the lamp. There would also be a lamp test pushbutton which would
put
>the bulbs across the 12 Volt bus for a momentary preflight check. There
would
>be one lamp for each side. The weight penalty would be that of a couple
>Integrated Circuits.
>Any ideas on this?
>Mark McGee
>RV4 Wings
Have you driven an Acura or a Honda? Most have the exact circuit you
describe. When the tank gets low a warning light comes on with an icon of
a gas pump.
The sender is a variable resistor, the circuit is contained in the
instrument panel, so I have never seen the guts of it, but have had the
tank out for a bad sender and can see that there is no "extra float" or
other mechanism to sense fuel level.
Shouldn't be too hard for the electronic minded to whip up exactly what you
describe.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E Steffens"<resteffe(at)dukeengineering.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List--Panel Mounting GPS |
Bob,
I mounted a Garmin 195 on the panel of my -6. I made a bracket that
angled the unit so that I look directly at it. I found that if the
thing is mounted flat on the panel it is hard to see. The bracket
attaches to the panel with four small bolts and the piece of the yoke
mount that cradles the unit bolts to the bracket. For power I found
that the cable to the cigarette lighter plug would fit in the gap
between the top of the panel and canopy deck (tip-up). I installed a
lighter receptacle in the sub-panel and used snap-ties to secure the
plug. Easy to remove and no cables to cut. Also I have only four small
holes in my panel if I decide to change. GPS technology and hardware
will surely change and so will my panel.
Dick Steffens, RV6 Flying, North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
>"Use Vy and say goodbye" (best rate) is on a sign at an airport I frequent
>which has a shopping mall at the end of the runway.
>
This sign must not have been written by an RV pilot. I find that any speed
below 110 kts and this thing climbs like a bat outta hell. I'm also off the
ground in under 600'.
Disclaimer: I'm not advocating climbing at 110 kts when looking at an
obstruction. There are times where Vx in an RV is the most prudent airspeed.
-Scott Gesele N506Rv - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
On 16 Apr 98 at 15:58, Bob Ungrin wrote:
> I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
> idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the
> panel. Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is
> posing somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether
> the unit must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce
> reflections and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the
> list had any experience in this area? Thanks in advance.
> bob_ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca
I did what you're talking about. My 195 mounts to the yoke mount in
a small aluminum box attached to the rear of the panel. (A portion
of the 195 yoke mount is attached to the box.) My 195 protrudes
1/4"-1/2" thru the panel. Pictures at
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/panel.htm
Tim
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor |
<< Listers,
I am considering a Low Fuel Level warning lamp for my RV4 but do not want the
additional weight of the dedicated purpose floats.
snip
Any ideas on this?
Just one: You won't need this feature. The floats can be adjusted to good
accuracy at the low indication. K.I.S.S., ya know. If you are thinking that
your gauges might be off, well so will your low level thing-a-ma-jig, as it
gets its info from the same sender.
This free advice is worth what you paid for it....
Check six!
Mark
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Here's another one... X has more angles than Y
Paul Besing
RV-6A
Empennage
>
>>Heres my fail proof method. They are in alphabetical order.
>>x comes before y, a(ngle) comes before r(ate)
>>Dennis
>
>And on every airplane *I* have flown (admittedly only a dozen) the Vx is
>lower airspeed than Vy, so again the *FIRST* one is angle and the second
>one is rate.
>
>"Use Vy and say goodbye" (best rate) is on a sign at an airport I frequent
>which has a shopping mall at the end of the runway.
>
>
>Bob Steward, A&P IA
>AA-1B N8978L
>AA-5A N1976L
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
Bob,
You wrote:
"I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is posing
somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether the unit
must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
experience in this area? Thanks in advance."
I've found the Garmin 195 GPS to be unreadable with a bright sun anywhere
from abeam to aft, on a fixed panel mount in a PL-2 ( similar to an RV-6 in
configuration). The 195 is a great GPS but a mount adjustable in several
directions is absolutely essential in my opinion.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: oil filter recess |
> I'm going to use the dog bowl in the fire wall for my oil filter > recess.
With the advise of my thirsty dog, what I found on my 6A (with an 0-360)
is that if you cut off the "nut" section on the back of the oil filter,
it will squeeze in place without the need of a firewall recess.
Andy
Winterland Publications
http://www.rvbookstore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List--Panel Mounting GPS |
What about one of those cell phone mounts, the type that is like a padded clamp.
You
could probably mount it low in a corner, and swivel it whichever way you want.
They
hold pretty tight, but he unit would be easy to remove if you needed to take it
with
you.
Moe Colontonio
Richard E Steffens wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I mounted a Garmin 195 on the panel of my -6. I made a bracket that
> angled the unit so that I look directly at it. I found that if the
> thing is mounted flat on the panel it is hard to see. The bracket
> attaches to the panel with four small bolts and the piece of the yoke
> mount that cradles the unit bolts to the bracket. For power I found
> that the cable to the cigarette lighter plug would fit in the gap
> between the top of the panel and canopy deck (tip-up). I installed a
> lighter receptacle in the sub-panel and used snap-ties to secure the
> plug. Easy to remove and no cables to cut. Also I have only four small
> holes in my panel if I decide to change. GPS technology and hardware
> will surely change and so will my panel.
> Dick Steffens, RV6 Flying, North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Sam Buchanan's RV web page |
OK, everybody take a minute and click into this page.
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/18years.html
I know a lot of you may think that I wrote it, trying to sell my book.
I didn't. Sam did it himself with absolutely no coaxing from me.
But that doesn't mean I can't be happy about it.
Thanks Sam.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <n164ra(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor |
> >I am considering a Low Fuel Level warning lamp for my RV4 but do not
want the
> >additional weight of the dedicated purpose floats. Does it sound
feasible to
> >use the existing floats with a circuit which would monitor the voltage
across
> >the fuel receiver units?
> >
>
> Have you driven an Acura or a Honda? Most have the exact circuit you
> describe. When the tank gets low a warning light comes on with an icon
of
> a gas pump.
One caveat...Honda's don't generally do rolls or encounter turbulence. I
thought of incorporating something like this in my plane, but figured
during anything but smooth s&l flight I would have a constantly flashing
warning lamp. Not good .
Aircraft spruce sells dedicated float sensors with a very small arm. These
mounted down low in the tank would be less prone to this.
In the end I skipped on the whole thing due to KISS, more weight...more
expense...more places to leak. My watch has never let me run out of gas
yet, and my fuel flow sensor should be a nice backup to that.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
>I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
>idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
>The other question I have is whether the unit
>must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
>and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
>experience in this area?
Bob:
I mounted a GPS 195 unit on the panel in my RV-6 using a U-shaped bracket
that I fabricated out of .060" aluminum. I disassembled the GPS holder from
the Garmin yoke mount, attached the holder to one leg of the U bracket with
countersunk screws, and bolted the other leg of the U bracket to the panel.
I fabricated the bracket so that it would hold the GPS such that the display
would be at 90 degrees from my line of sight when I look at it. This means
that the bottom of the GPS is approximately 3" from the panel while the top
nearly touches the panel. Since the GPS is not mounted directly in front of
me, it is also tilted slightly in the other direction. It took a little
bit of experimenting to get the correct bend angles on the bracket. With
the display at 90 degrees to my line of sight, I rarely have a problem with
reflections.
For power, I did not want to use batteries or to mess with a cigarette
lighter adapter and a long cord. So, I installed a 2.5 mm power jack in the
panel adjacent to the GPS support bracket. I cut the cigarette lighter
adapter about 5" from the end that plugs into the GPS and installed a 2.5 mm
plug; this plugs into the panel mounted jack. I also installed an in-line
2.5 mm jack in the other cut end of the cigarette lighter adapter cable.
That way I can still use the adapter if I want to use the GPS elsewhere.
(The power plug and jacks are similar to those used for power supplies on
many portable electronic devices. They are available at electronic supply
houses and at Radio Shack.)
I attached the external antenna to the top of the glare shield with
sticky-backed Velcro. (The antenna was first removed from the suction cup
bracket.) The antenna cable was directed to the GPS through a hole
(w/grommet) in the glare shield and a hole in the panel. I tied the excess
cable in a bundle behind the panel.
I love the GPS 195. The display is great, and with the moving map,
everything is layed out right in front of you. You hardly need a chart. (I
still force myself to follow along on the chart and keep track of the
compass heading in case the GPS ever fails.) When I park my airplane
somewhere other than the hanger, I always take the GPS with me to avoid
tempting a would-be thief.
Mark
RV-6; flying, 180 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Paint |
<< What are the basic differences between the way cars are typically
painted and the way airplanes are painted?
>>
Hi All,
I've visited one assembly line.
The body was primed by lowering it into a tank of primer.
The car was painted only in the sense that there was paint on all the outside
surfaces, not necessarily evenly, or smoothly.
The car went through a reflow oven to provide the smooth shiny surface we all
expect.
The surface preparation, primer surface finish, and the paints ability to
flow-out all combine to how smooth and shiny an aircraft finish ends up.
BTW, these are just my observations. If you don't agree with them, I don't
care. :-)
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gene Gottschalk <geneg(at)pop.kis.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
Not to mention it's easy to upgrade every couple of months when the new
latest and greatest comes out. BTY, Mike Seager has one mounted to the
panel of the factory RV6 using the Garmin bracket screwed to the panel with
the yoke mount removed. Only a couple of screw holes to fill when the
novelty wears out.
I gave this a lot of though, and seriously considered buying a King comm
radio with the GPS built in. When I saw how quickly the GPS industry
evolves I decided to stay with a portable hand held, at least until the
technology runs it's course. The 195 sure works well and it's easy to use
in your lap. Probably better than a panel mount if the air isn't too rough
as you can turn it this way and that to combat sun position.
-Gene Gottschalk
Frederick, MD, N700RV, riveting forward fuselage skins
>
>
>>I'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
>>idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
>>Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is posing
>>somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether the unit
>>must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
>>and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
>>experience in this area? Thanks in advance.
>>bob_ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca
>
>
>I know that you are looking for opinions on panel mounting the Garmin 195.
>FWIW, I have been using the 195 in my RV-6A by just resting it on my right
>leg. It doesn't get in the way, isn't taking up real estate on the panel,
>is connected to the aircraft's power and works just fine this way.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 seat belt bracket |
G'day listers,
I can't seem to find the material call-out for the F-804L seat belt
attach lug on my plans or in the instructions. I looks like perhaps two
pieces of .063 alloy or maybe thicker material, but I'd like to make
sure before I start cutting anything. Boy, the wing center section
construction must be where we absolutely, positively take care of that
%51 rule, eh? Lots of pieces to make!
Thanks folks,
Brian Denk
RV-8 #379
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Hargrave" <Bobby.Hargrave(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
index
end
Bob Hargrave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
>Good, #30 is what I wanted to hear, since that's what I drilled. My 410, of
course,
>doesn't fit correctly either. If I shim it on the sides, will I still be able
to use
>the CS4-4 rivets? I know there are all kinds of specs for solid rivets, but
what
>about pop rivets? How much of the rivet needs to be sticking out the other side
of
>the hole to be the correct length?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>RV-8
Pop rivets do come in different grip lengths, but I'm not sure about the
designation. I assume (danger, danger) that the second 4 in the "CS4-4" means
the length in 1/16ths, but if you measure a rivet, it's about 3/8" long.
Perhaps this is a grip length spec. As soon as I post this wild speculation,
I'm sure someone will post the actual answer if I'm even minutely off base.
Like someone else said, you can't get away with anything on this list :-)
The more direct answer to your question is: Yes, the CS4-4's worked fine on the
410 even with my .063 spacer.
Rusty
RV-8A (left elevator suspended by a trip to Cleveland for 3-4 weeks)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Tornadoes in Nashville |
Many of you may have seen the national coverage of the tornadoes that hit
Nasvhille yesterday. I was lucky(extremely) my business is located 3 blocks
south of one of the hardest hit areas downtown and we suffered very little
damage.
Cornelia Fort(M-88) was not. This is the home of Colemill Enterprises the
company that converts Navajos, Bananzas, 310s and Barons. They took a
direct hit and almost every plane on the field was destroyed. Over forty
reportedly were destroyed. There were a few in hangers that made it, one of
the maintenence hangers survived, and strangly a couple of King Airs
outside and not even tied down were relatively unscathed.
People on the field say the damage occured in less than "one" minute.
I am sure there will be more press coverage of this.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael_Markert(at)vul.com (Michael Markert) |
subscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor |
>I am considering a Low Fuel Level warning lamp for my RV4 but do not want the
>additional weight.....
I have one on my RV-4. Works great. Doubles as a watch, timer and stopwatch.
And portable, too. Wear it on my wrist. Made by Timex. Adds negligible
weight to the aircraft and is as simple a low fuel indicator as you can
find. Makes my eyes get bigger, too (side effect).
I think (and this is just me talking here) if you need a light to tell you
your fuel is low, you ain't payin' enough attention to what is going on. If
you have been timing your fuel (you DO time your fuel consumption, don't
you) a light coming on would only add to your anxiety: On. Yikes. It's on
mighty early. Is it reading correctly? Oh, now it's off. I must be OK (false
sense of security). OOPs. Now it's on again (increased anxiety). I actually
very rarely find myself looking at my fuel guages. I don't really trust them
(no reason not to, I just don't) and I already know how much fuel I have
left. Because of my portable fuel flow/low fuel warning device.
Just a thought............
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
>The 4 rivets attaching the 410 to the angle are also a challenge to
>buck.
I borrowed a 4" squeezer head.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A 25088,
elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tornadoes in Nashville |
<< Cornelia Fort(M-88) was not. This is the home of Colemill Enterprises the
company that converts Navajos, Bananzas, 310s and Barons. They took a
direct hit and almost every plane on the field was destroyed. Over forty
reportedly were destroyed. There were a few in hangers that made it, one of
the maintenence hangers survived, and strangly a couple of King Airs
outside and not even tied down were relatively unscathed.
People on the field say the damage occured in less than "one" minute.
I am sure there will be more press coverage of this.
Shelby in Nashville. >>
>>>glad you weren't hurt, Shelby... now just think of all the non-prop-strike
Lyc's that will be available to the list as the insurance adjusters start
parting these wrecks out...
Bill B
_ aren't you getting close to finished? Seems you've been on the list at
least as long as I.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: oil filter recess |
Thanx Andy. I'll do a double check and see if I can keep from amking my
dog any thirstier also. This sounds a lot better and simple-er...
Phil Sisson at Litchfield, Illinois... Pitts N1GB
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com wrote:
>
> > I'm going to use the dog bowl in the fire wall for my oil filter >
> recess.
>
> With the advise of my thirsty dog, what I found on my 6A (with an
> 0-360)
> is that if you cut off the "nut" section on the back of the oil
> filter,
> it will squeeze in place without the need of a firewall recess.
>
> Andy
> Winterland Publications
> http://www.rvbookstore.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Low Fuel Indicator |
I think a beeter method is to install an EI fuel guage. It works with
the resistive senders supplied by VAN and is dead accurate. I had
calibrated dip sticks when I had VAN's "cheapo" indicators, and these
calibrated sticks always agree with the digital indications of the EI
guage. It is a bit pricy, but after using it I never had any doubt that
it was money well spent. Also, I threw out the heavy brass fuel selector
Van supplied, and spent the $125 or so for one sold by Aircraft Spruce.
It has absolutely positive detents, and there is never any doubt where
the selector is. With the old brass one the detent was so vague that
you didn't know what was going on. One RV-6 pilot said that with the
original selector he would never change tanks unless he was right over
an airport. I agree with him. There are a few places to spend a few
bucks, and the above two are some of them.
RV-6A 121 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tornadoes in Nashville |
Sport AV8R wrote:
>
>
> << Cornelia Fort(M-88) was not. This is the home of Colemill
> Enterprises the
> company that converts Navajos, Bananzas, 310s and Barons. They took a
>
> direct hit and almost every plane on the field was destroyed. Over
> forty
> reportedly were destroyed. There were a few in hangers that made it,
> one of
> the maintenence hangers survived, and strangly a couple of King Airs
> outside and not even tied down were relatively unscathed.
>
> People on the field say the damage occured in less than "one" minute.
>
> I am sure there will be more press coverage of this.
>
> Shelby in Nashville. >>
>
> >>>glad you weren't hurt, Shelby... now just think of all the
> non-prop-strike
> Lyc's that will be available to the list as the insurance adjusters
> start
> parting these wrecks out...
>
> Bill B
>
> _ aren't you getting close to finished? Seems you've been on the list
> at
> least as long as I.
Finishing is no reason to leave the list..We fledglings might still need
adviseonce in awhile. Phil
>
>
>
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Re: Tornadoes in Nashville |
>
>>>>glad you weren't hurt, Shelby... now just think of all the non-prop-strike
>Lyc's that will be available to the list as the insurance adjusters start
>parting these wrecks out...
>
>Bill B
I think there will if anything be some O-200s, Continentals, and maybe some
8 cyl Lycomings. I just got back from over there and this is primarily a
residential area just east of downtown, one of the oldeset neighborhoods in
Nashville. You just can't believe the devastation. It is like a giant
weedeater came through. Most streets are impassable, people all over trying
to get there lives in order - it is as if it was bombed out.
>
>_ aren't you getting close to finished? Seems you've been on the list at
>least as long as I.
Unfortunately not. Just starting my fuselage, but seem to be accumulating
plenty of parts.
Shelby in Nashville
Heading to S&F on Saturday.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
For those who don't know, the Bud-one airship crashed yesterday here
in Tallahassee.
The ship was being landed, tied-up, or what ever they do at Quincy
airport when the wind suddenly changed direction.
the pilot applied full power to try and clear the tree's the surround
the field, he was not successful. It looked like a giant budweiser
sheet layed over a couple of BIG oak tree's.
The crew escaped unharmed, but the airship was trashed.
I wonder if they got tested for alcohol- just kidding.
Craig Hiers
"Driving" to SUN-N-FUN agian.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
Hello,
On the 410, I found the circular cutout mandatory to access the rib rivets.
I took a 3/4" by @1' length of round stock, slanted the head and offset
it(bent ehr formed it). I used the plans recommended pop rivets for the sides.
The archives has a post from a previous discussion on this topic, within
last year. I can remember only vague details, but a lister submitted an
idea that was (gasp) much better than mine. It didn't require expensive
tools.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Left Elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks) |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor |
After being a passenger in a Piper Arrow that taxied to a fuel pump
on fumes, I elected to install the low level switches in my -6. The
plane had plenty of fuel but it was in the other tank. We were returning
from OSH sunburned and tired, the pilot (CFII,MEL,1000+hr) had forgot to
check the position of the fuel selector even during the landing.
I believe Vans lost a plane due to a faulty fuel guage, a low level
switch would be a back-up for this.
I installed the switches to let me know if I forgot to switch tanks.
I plan to time my fuel use also, and I know if I do this I shouldn't
need the switches. KISS is good, but there is nothing wrong with a
little CYA. : )
Chris Brooks
RV6 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor |
F Mark40 wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> I am considering a Low Fuel Level warning lamp for my RV4 but do not
> want the
> additional weight of the dedicated purpose floats. Does it sound
> feasible to
> use the existing floats with a circuit which would monitor the voltage
> across
> the fuel receiver units? This circuit would be an op-amp voltage
> comparator
> and maybe a driver transistor for the lamp. At maybe 4 gallons,
> whatever
> voltage that comes out to be, the comparator output would go to 12
> Volts and
> light up the lamp. There would also be a lamp test pushbutton which
> would put
> the bulbs across the 12 Volt bus for a momentary preflight check.
> There would
> be one lamp for each side. The weight penalty would be that of a
> couple
> Integrated Circuits.
>
> Any ideas on this?
>
> Mark McGee
> RV4 Wings
>
The low fuel level switches available for the tanks only weigh a few
ounces. They are nothing but a float that makes
or breaks a small reed relay. Hook them to 12V and an indicator. Wicks
has a set for around thiry dolloars, but if
you look at a lot of electronics catalogs you can find them cheaper.
Mitch Faatz installed them on his quick build tanks
on the fuel sender access cover. They are bulkhead mount switches and
install very easily (assuming your tanks are off the
aircraft!)
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ti-downs arrived. |
My Titanium Ti-downs arrived. (Tie downs that go in Mother Earth to
secure the aircraft when not flying.) They are the most beautiful
piece of metal I have ever seen. It is unbelievable how light they
are. I work around Spacecraft that use titanium fuel lines and
hardware. I have been fortunate to see, touch and handle titanium
tubing and hardware before. After pricing other aircraft and
non-aircraft anchors, I feel the small additional cost was worth the
weight savings. I have not weighed them but they feel about half the
weight of others that I looked at. (Guess is apx. 1 lbs.) I think I
just bought the "Worlds Best" tie down anchors.
Need to find out about grass strips that are fun weekend get-away for
us RV types. Anyone with enough free time to plan a fly in for us
RV'er please post.
See ya at Jackson, CA Amador-Westover Airport for the RV
Rendezvous on 17 May.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)jps.net> |
Importance: Normal
>
> >Heres my fail proof method. They are in alphabetical order.
> >x comes before y, a(ngle) comes before r(ate)
> >Dennis
That's one way. My CFI help me remember it by saying that "x" has all those
*angles* in it. So that's best angle of climb.
ld be easy to remove if you
> needed to take it with
> you.
>
My thoughts exactly! And if you buy a GPS unit with a different form factor
it will probably fit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
<< 'm currently planning the panel for an RV-6A. I am toying with the
idea of mounting the GPS (Garmin GPS195MAP) either in or on the panel.
Due to the large size and irregular shape of this unit, it is posing
somewhat of a problem. The other question I have is whether the unit
must be adjustable for angle and/or elevation to reduce reflections
and/or glare from bright sunlight. Has anyone on the list had any
experience in this area? Thanks in advance.
bob_ungrin(at)on.infoshare.ca >>
Bob: I mounted my Garmin 195 in the panel,(flush) of my 6A. I fabricated a
"box" for the unit to drop into. Put in cut-outs for the antenna and power
wires. BTW: mounted the remote antenna in the engine compartment; works well
under the cowling. So far, ( I have only 16 hours on my plane), the unit is
very easy to see at all levels of light. I really like it!.
Walt RV6-A N79WH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Ti-downs arrived. |
Importance: Normal
> Need to find out about grass strips that are fun weekend get-away for
> us RV types. Anyone with enough free time to plan a fly in for us
> RV'er please post.
>
Hey there Gary,
One strip that would be just far enough for you to really stretch your wings
and is very scenic and has friendly folks would be Cottage Grove, OR. I've
stayed there twice. Once in the Best Western across the street and once
camped on the field. The runway is paved but you can taxi off onto the
grass down by the river and pitch a tent. Ever been there? If not, try it!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 #1054
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Ti-downs arrived. |
Been to Cottage Grove for a Hatz fly-in. (Hatz is a scratch built
tube and fabric bi-plane.) Nice airport. The Hatz fly-in is about
the same time as Van's Homecoming. Would be a great place for someone
to organize an RV fly-in this summer. (Hint. Hint.)
---Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>
>
> > Need to find out about grass strips that are fun weekend get-away
for
> > us RV types. Anyone with enough free time to plan a fly in for us
> > RV'er please post.
> >
>
> Hey there Gary,
> One strip that would be just far enough for you to really stretch
your wings
> and is very scenic and has friendly folks would be Cottage Grove,
OR. I've
> stayed there twice. Once in the Best Western across the street and
once
> camped on the field. The runway is paved but you can taxi off onto
the
> grass down by the river and pitch a tent. Ever been there? If not,
try it!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> RV-4 #1054
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ti-downs arrived. |
>
>My Titanium Ti-downs arrived. (Tie downs that go in Mother Earth to
------------snip-----------------
I think I just bought the "Worlds Best" tie down anchors.
>
>Need to find out about grass strips that are fun weekend get-away for
>us RV types. Anyone with enough free time to plan a fly in for us
>RV'er please post.
>
>See ya at Jackson, CA Amador-Westover Airport for the RV
>Rendezvous on 17 May.
>Gary A. Sobek
>RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>So. CA, USA
>RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
Thanks Gary, for the nice report on my "Ti-downs"
Regarding fun Fly-ins, here's another tip: The Rogue River EAA chapter 725
is having a Fly-in/Camp-out Sept.11-12-13. A real friendly group.
Check out my website at:
http://www.airtime.com
Sincerely,
Randy Simpson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ti-downs arrived. OOPS.. |
Dear RV-List,
OOPS...I posted the wrong website address. Please disregard the previous
one. The right one is:
http://www.airtimemfg.com
Sincerely,
Randy Simpson
p.s. That'll teach me not to talk on the phone while typing reply's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Mounting a GPS |
Garmin's GPS 195 price list has part # 010-00120-00, which is listed as a
bracket mount and called a "GPSMAP 195 Swivel mounting kit", for $35.00.
They don't show a picture of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
<< I drilled the trim tab, and did not realize that it had moved, and now the
tab is about 1/16" past the trailing edge of the elevator. It is still
straight, just the trailing edges do not quite line up. Does anyone think
that this will pose an aerodynamic disturbance? >>
Paul,
This little boo boo wont hurt anything but your pride, however I do
have a suggestion for you. Set the elevator aside while you build your wings
and think about weather you want to leave well enough alone. By this time you
will have several sections of left over hinge material. You could remove the
hinge pin for the trim tab, drill off the hinge half on the tab or the
elevator side (which ever one leaves you with a little leeway). Reinstall the
hinge pin with a new section of hinge half. Now reposition the tab where you
want it and drill through the existing holes in the tab (or elevator) into the
new section of hinge.Remove the hinge pin. Rivet the new section on. Now
reinstall the hinge pin. WALA. This fix would probably take about a half hour.
Problem Solved!
Ryan Bendure
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: oil filter recess |
> I'm going to use the dog bowl in the fire wall for my oil filter recess.
> Phil Sisson at Litchfield, IL RV6-200
>
Phil,
Why not just spring for the box already built by Van's. Its only 25 bucks and the
same amount of work. Also, someday you may decide to put a CS prop on it.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993 - Ready to fit wings for landing gear drilling.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor |
In a message dated 4/17/98 4:21:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mikel(at)dimensional.com writes:
> I have one on my RV-4. Works great. Doubles as a watch, timer and stopwatch.
> And portable, too. Wear it on my wrist. Made by Timex. Adds negligible
> weight to the aircraft and is as simple a low fuel indicator as you can
> find. Makes my eyes get bigger, too (side effect).
>
> I think (and this is just me talking here) if you need a light to tell you
> your fuel is low, you ain't payin' enough attention to what is going on.
Actually, I have two clocks and one timer running when I fly. I just thought
I could learn something about the electronics involved from one of the EE
people on here. But you set me straight. That'll learn me.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tornadoes in Nashville |
> You just can't believe the devastation. It is like a giant weedeater
>came through. Most streets are impassable, people all over trying
>to get there lives in order - it is as if it was bombed out.
Been there and done that. I got hit in the April 1974 tornado swarm.
I lost my home and was devastated. It took a few days to get over
the shock; but, work had to be done as soon as it happened to save
as much stuff as possible from the rain that continued after the
tornado hit. We were lucky. The one that hit our house was a small
one and only destroyed the house. Many of the things inside were
saved. About three years ago, we got hit by a bad hail storm that
took out our roof, our aluminum siding, and badly dented our truck.
The roof and sides of my metal garage still show the scars.
Jim Sears in Ky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
The same as you would for an AD4264-4; they are both 1/8" rivets. This
is much easier than some of the other pop-rivets which seem to use a
different arbitrary numbering system. A CS (countersink?) rivet is
pretty well equivalent in size to the corresponding AD rivet.
PatK - RV-6A
MoeJoe wrote:
>
> What size hole do I drill for a CS4-4 pop rivet?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Indicator |
In a message dated 4/17/98 5:54:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fasching(at)chaffee.net writes:
> I think a beeter method is to install an EI fuel guage. It works with
> the resistive senders supplied by VAN and is dead accurate.
I have considered this. I understand it is scaled by adding fuel in two
gallon increments and then setting it. Could you talk about this? Also, do
you have the inverted tank on the left? If so, is it inaccurate due to the
position of the sending unit on the aft baffle?
> Also, I threw out the heavy brass fuel selector
> Van supplied, and spent the $125 or so for one sold by Aircraft Spruce.
> It has absolutely positive detents, and there is never any doubt where
> the selector is.
I have been considering the Andair fuel valve. Is this the one you are using?
It is in the new Avery catalog for $170. I will probably have Van's omit the
fuel valve from my fuselage kit and put the money toward the Andair valve.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tie-downs arrived. |
In a message dated 4/17/98 10:17:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> My Titanium Ti-downs arrived. (Tie downs that go in Mother Earth to
> secure the aircraft when not flying.) They are the most beautiful
> piece of metal I have ever seen. It is unbelievable how light they
> are.
Where do you get these Tie-downs?
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Check your jig alignment! |
Just thought I'd relate a bad experience I had this past week with my jig. I built
a plain vanilla "H" shaped jig out of kiln dried 2x4s. It is straight and sturdy,
and I built my HS & VS in it without any problems. The other night I setup my V
block jig for my rudder with a plumb bob & digital level. A really great tool BTW
if you have $100 burning a hole in your wallet. I got everything setup perfectly,
then put the rudder in the jig and drilled the skin to the spar. Upon taking it
out I noticed my V-blocks seemed kinda flimsy. I verified that they were secured
to the crossmember, but noticed that the crossmember was loose. It turns out that
for some idiotic reason I only used 2 screws on each end to secure the support
that the crossmember was attached to, and I had used cheap scrap blocks too. I
have no idea why I did this, all I can say is that when I built the jig I had no
idea what I was in for. Now my rudder is likely crooked. I'll rivet the whole
thing, and if it's wacky I'll rebuild it at the end of the project. So my tip for
the day: Verify that the jig is setup correctly before you drill anything!
Moe Colontonio
RV-8 Rudder or propeller, depending on how it looks outa the jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tie-downs arrived. Where to get. |
---F Mark40 wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 4/17/98 10:17:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> >
> > My Titanium Ti-downs arrived. (Tie downs that go in Mother Earth
to
> > secure the aircraft when not flying.) They are the most beautiful
> > piece of metal I have ever seen. It is unbelievable how light they
> > are.
>
> Where do you get these Tie-downs?
********** INSERT **********
You can get your Ti-downs from:
http://www.airtimemfg.com
or contact Randy Simpson at: airtime(at)proaxis.com
********** END INSERT **********
> Mark McGee
> RV4 Wings
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MY NEW Website/RV-8A Pix |
How about some pics of the conventional RV-8? I can't find them anywhere!
Moe Colontonio
Jeremy William Benedict wrote:
> Greetings All,
>
> After announcing I would put some RV-8A pictures on my personal web site,
> I decided I finally needed to get my personal web site done.
>
> Oh yeah, there's also 18 RV-8A pictures on the site. The pictures aren't
> perfect, I'll try to re-download them this weekend when I have time to
> troubleshoot (they are too dark).
>
> Enjoy,
> Jeremy
> jwb(at)europa.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Ti-downs arrived. |
Importance: Normal
>
> Been to Cottage Grove for a Hatz fly-in. (Hatz is a scratch built
> tube and fabric bi-plane.) Nice airport. The Hatz fly-in is about
> the same time as Van's Homecoming. Would be a great place for someone
> to organize an RV fly-in this summer. (Hint. Hint.)
>
Yeah, if only someone had an RV to fly in with... (Sob. Sob.)
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 #1054
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Indicator |
-----Original Message-----
From: John W. Fasching <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 4:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Low Fuel Indicator
>
>I think a beeter method is to install an EI fuel guage. It works with
>the resistive senders supplied by VAN and is dead accurate. I had
>calibrated dip sticks when I had VAN's "cheapo" indicators, and these
>calibrated sticks always agree with the digital indications of the EI
>guage. >
>RV-6A 121 hours
I have a question about the accuracy near full scale -- the low-end accuracy
is going to be excellent with the EI linearizing circuitry and that's where
its important. But the 1.5 degree dihedral causes the tip to be 1.25 inches
higher than the root. This means that the float "doesn't know" any gas has
been used until the level falls at least 1.25 inches from "true full". This
seems like it would create an uncertainty of a gallon or two regarding "true
full". That's why we visually check gas levels!
Do you find that to be the case?
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tie-downs arrived. Where to get. |
Gary A. Sobek wrote:
>
> > >
> > > My Titanium Ti-downs arrived. (Tie downs that go in Mother Earth
> to
> > > secure the aircraft when not flying.) They are the most beautiful
> > > piece of metal I have ever seen. It is unbelievable how light they
> > > are.
> >
> > Where do you get these Tie-downs?
>
> ********** INSERT **********
>
> You can get your Ti-downs from:
>
> http://www.airtimemfg.com
>
> or contact Randy Simpson at: airtime(at)proaxis.com
>
> ********** END INSERT **********
>
Gary which lenght did did you get?
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 seat belt bracket |
Hi Brian,
You must have an RV8, my plans don't show that number, but these two
pieces sound like the two that fit on the longorns. They should be on
your inventory list. They are already stamped out shape wize and the bolt
holes are there. The plans should show you the shape you are looking for.
When you say "material call out" it leads me to think you plan on cutting
them out. No need to do that.
Look in the plastic bag that has the two cables, they may be there.
Cecil Hatfield
writes:
>
>G'day listers,
>
>I can't seem to find the material call-out for the F-804L seat belt
>attach lug on my plans or in the instructions. I looks like perhaps
>two
>pieces of .063 alloy or maybe thicker material, but I'd like to make
>sure before I start cutting anything. Boy, the wing center section
>construction must be where we absolutely, positively take care of that
>
>%51 rule, eh? Lots of pieces to make!
>
>Thanks folks,
>
>Brian Denk
>RV-8 #379
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Check your jig alignment! |
> idea what I was in for. Now my rudder is likely crooked. I'll rivet the
whole
> thing, and if it's wacky I'll rebuild it at the end of the project. So my
tip for
(lots snipped)
May get some flak for this, but if it was me, I would leave it alone and
fly with it. It may even be beneficial. I know of a design which calls for
a rudder that most people just cannot get straight and the airplane doesn't
know it..flies fine..
I assume you are faced with just a small twist..don't let it tear you up.
Keep plugging..........OK, flame away all ye who disagree.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Bad landings & Authority |
A plane (C172?) crashed recently at the local, uncontrolled airport (8A7)
because it was trying to land on 27 shortly before sunset. The pilot died
and the passenger was seriously injured. The pax said they tried to
initiate a go-around but were very disoriented from the blinding sun, thus
ended up in the trees on the approach end.
Plan, anticipate, be careful, have fun....
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
Advance, NC
RV-8 Emp.
On Tuesday, April 14, 1998 2:41 PM, Hal Kempthorne [SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com]
wrote:
>
> Sun in the eyes - bad even if there is no Red Barron shooting at you.
>
> I learned all about this long ago, flying into Oakland. I was a
Washington
> resident at the time and big city airports were a challenge anyway. I
was
> pleased that I had made it all the way to OAK and was in nice position on
a base
> leg for runway 27R. Then I turned final and !!POW!! - blinded! I
concentrated
> on getting it on the runway with never a thought of going around/away
etc.
>
> Part of the cure is planning ahead which I am not naturally good at.
Arriving
> at sundown for 27 is going to be like this. Come on in welding goggles
at the
> ready. Or, ask for a different runway or land real steep. Or, wait till
> sundown.
>
> Later, an instructor taught me to think of the landing approach as an
approach
> to a go-around. Then, if everything is perfect, land.
>
>
> Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Wiring wings
> halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | RV Journal at Sun-N-Fun |
The RV Journal is headed to Sun-N-Fun!
If all goes according to plans, Sam will land in the middle of Mecca
Monday morning with the Kodak DC120 digital camera fully charged with
fresh electrons! No doubt considerable time will be required for him to
calm down and stop running around in circles while salivating over all
the cool RVs, but eventually sanity will return and he will begin to
document some of the neatest and coolest RVs and RV stuff to be found.
Once he finally staggers back to the room each evening, he will
faithfully (unless a good excuse arises...like somebody inviting him to
go to the Outback Steakhouse) download the images from the camera, and
upload the Sun-N-Fun Scrapbook to "The Journal" so those of you who are
grounded (or too broke from making regular contributions to the Oregon
economy to make it to Lakeland) can share in the fun. In the next few
days (after Monday), try clicking on the following link to see what your
grimy and sunburned hack can uncover:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/scrapbok.html
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Indicator |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I have a question about the accuracy near full scale -- the low-end
>accuracy
>is going to be excellent with the EI linearizing circuitry and that's
>where
>its important. But the 1.5 degree dihedral causes the tip to be 1.25
>inches
>higher than the root. This means that the float "doesn't know" any gas
>has
>been used until the level falls at least 1.25 inches from "true full".
> This
>seems like it would create an uncertainty of a gallon or two regarding
>"true
>full". That's why we visually check gas levels!
>Do you find that to be the case?
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
>Barrington, IL
>
>
>
>
We have the E.I. fuel gauge in both the Yellow RV-8 and now the new
RV-8A. They are very accurate but do work as described because of wing
dihedral.
With the 21 gallon tanks you need burn off approximately 4-5 gallons
before the gauge shows any drop in fuel level (slightly less if you have
the sender in the second bay because of a flop tube installation), but
the indicated fuel level is very accurate right down to probably a 1/2
gallon or so except for a tank with a flop tube, it needs between 1 gal.
and 1 1/2 gal to start the float floating 9assuming you have your sender
installed as far inboard in the second rib bay as possible.
The technic for calibrating the gauge is as described (adding fuel in 2
gal increments) and is the most accurate if it is done with the airplane
in level flight attitude.
It seems to be a good thing for the demo airplanes at Van's because we
have so many different pilots that fly so many different airplanes.
But we also know the dangers of relying too much on the fuel gauges. As
also mentioned we had an airplane damaged a couple of years ago because
of fuel starvation (it is now flying as the RV-9)
which BTW had the E.I. fuel gauge in it (but with a failed fuel sender
that is indicating a tank as 1/2 full when it is about to run dry, it
doesn't matter what fuel gauge you have).
It is a very nice instrument (though a little on the pricey side compared
to other fuel gauges that are available).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kennedy <skennedy(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | For Sale 0-360-A4K |
I have a neighbor with a Lyc 0-360-A4K removed from a Grumman Tiger in
1991 with 1357.7 TTSN. He bought it to install on a Tiger that a local
outfit was rebuilding for him, but the deal was not completed. The log
is here, and all four jugs were replaced at 1129 hours in 1989. Some
cylinder work and test run was done on 11/15/95. All accessories except
alternator.
I have no $ interest, and won't need an engine for a couple of years.
Please reply off list or call in the evenings or week-ends
Hope it helps
Steve Kennedy
skennedy(at)flash.net
281-482-2563
Friendswood, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Check your jig alignment! |
I'm not even sure if it's crooked yet. I'll probably keep it and fly off
the test time with it. I'm not happy with the quality, and I think this
will be just the excuse I need to give myself to scrap it. Mt stiffener
rivet spacing is not even, there is RTV all over the place (I tried
putting some under a stiffener, Doh!), and my trailing edge bend, while
good enough, is slightly pinched at the top and bottom. When it's all
finished, I'll hang it on the wall, and look at it again when it comes
time to fly.
Moe Colontonio
Austin Tinckler wrote:
>
>
> > idea what I was in for. Now my rudder is likely crooked. I'll rivet the
> whole
> > thing, and if it's wacky I'll rebuild it at the end of the project. So my
> tip for
> (lots snipped)
>
> May get some flak for this, but if it was me, I would leave it alone and
> fly with it. It may even be beneficial. I know of a design which calls for
> a rudder that most people just cannot get straight and the airplane doesn't
> know it..flies fine..
> I assume you are faced with just a small twist..don't let it tear you up.
> Keep plugging..........OK, flame away all ye who disagree.......
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Fuel Indicator |
F Mark40 wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 4/17/98 5:54:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> fasching(at)chaffee.net writes:
>
> > I think a beeter method is to install an EI fuel guage. It works with
> > the resistive senders supplied by VAN and is dead accurate.
>
> I have considered this. I understand it is scaled by adding fuel in two
> gallon increments and then setting it. Could you talk about this? Also, do
> you have the inverted tank on the left? If so, is it inaccurate due to the
> position of the sending unit on the aft baffle?
>
> > Also, I threw out the heavy brass fuel selector
> > Van supplied, and spent the $125 or so for one sold by Aircraft Spruce.
> > It has absolutely positive detents, and there is never any doubt where
> > the selector is.
>
> I have been considering the Andair fuel valve. Is this the one you are using?
> It is in the new Avery catalog for $170. I will probably have Van's omit the
> fuel valve from my fuselage kit and put the money toward the Andair valve.
>
> Mark McGee
> RV4 Wings
>
Yes, fuel is added in two gallon increments, a button is pushed on the
back of the unit, and another two gallons added, etc. Only problem is
that you must have the aircraft IN A FLIGHT LEVEL ATTITUDE and empty
tanks. If you screw up (I did) you have to begin at square one, ie,
empty tanks. Its easy, but I managed to mess up that sort of thing.
One responder asked about full indications - since you must put the
plane in a flight level attitude this is taken care of. I put the nose
wheel of my RV-6A into a small depression just off the edge of the
blacktop near the pump and used a carpenter's level on the reference
point (ledge of the cockpit) to set it level, and no problem.
As to the fuel selector: No I did not buy the $170 one from Avery, tho;
its probably a fine unit, I purchased one for about $125 from Aircraft
Spruce - there is only one of that price in their catalog, I don't have
a catalog here so I can't give you the number, but you'll find it. It's
GREAT! Have fun. s/John 121 hrs RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Interior Reflections |
Any thoughts on interior colors with regard to annoying reflections on the
canopy? Is this a problem? In particular, pieces such as slider frames and
rails, instrument panel, windscreen frame and brace, etc..
Thanks in advance.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A wings and main gear |
I'm at the same stage but will try Frank J's false spar method to install
the landing gear. Anybody experience method?????
Joe/fuselage/Landing gear
----------
> From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: RV-6A wings and main gear
> Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 6:36 PM
>
>
> Yo Listers!
>
> A milestone in northern Vermont! A couple of friends came over and we
> put the wings on the upside down fuselage. It turned into an airplane!
> And the best part was ... the wings fit! You will not believe how nice
> it looks to see those three big pieces come together.
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MY NEW Website/RV-8A Pix |
>
>How about some pics of the conventional RV-8? I can't find them anywhere!
>
>Moe Colontonio
>
>Jeremy William Benedict wrote:
>
>> Greetings All,
>>
>> After announcing I would put some RV-8A pictures on my personal web site,
>> I decided I finally needed to get my personal web site done.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> Jeremy
>> jwb(at)europa.com
I could get that address either.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Reflections |
>Any thoughts on interior colors with regard to annoying reflections on the
>canopy? Is this a problem..........
Can't speak for the -6 but the -4 types need to pay particular attention to
the rollover structure. The darker (black, for example) the better for
reflections for the back seat passenger. In bright light things really
reflect back. I have medium to dark grays and black in mine and am glad for
it as, even then, there are sometimes some annoying reflections.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
I'm working on the HS skeleton for my RV-8. As I understand it, the
skeleton is prepared, primed and assembled - then the skins are drilled,
deburred, dimpled, clecoed and riveted onto said skeleton. Does it matter
that the holes in the front spare and ribs are drilled after those parts
are primed? These areas (the holes) are effectively unprimed after
drilling. Do you prime the new holes again? Would it be better to prime
the whole assembly once *EVERY* hole is drilled? Or, should I stop
worrying about such tiny details?
Cheers,
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
Advance, NC
RV-8 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
A tip an experienced builder gave me is that if you prime the parts prior to doing
any work on them it will reduce the scratching of the soft alum. surfaces. I've
done this on my whole structure and like the results. Once primed you can slide
the pcs over alum. shavings with no affect. If the edges need deburred or you
must work with the pcs I would just reprime those areas that I exposed bare alum.
prior to final assembly. Prior to painting I will prime the revet heads.
Remember factory planes are not primed at all inside so don't sweat the details
too much.
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> I'm working on the HS skeleton for my RV-8. As I understand it, the
> skeleton is prepared, primed and assembled - then the skins are drilled,
> deburred, dimpled, clecoed and riveted onto said skeleton. Does it matter
> that the holes in the front spare and ribs are drilled after those parts
> are primed? These areas (the holes) are effectively unprimed after
> drilling. Do you prime the new holes again? Would it be better to prime
> the whole assembly once *EVERY* hole is drilled? Or, should I stop
> worrying about such tiny details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior Reflections |
I have an RV-4 with creme colored instrument panel, and all white interior,
plus a chromed rollbar, and have had absolutely no problem with reflections,
front seat or back. The fact is, if the sun is shining, you are usually
wearing sunglasses, so don't notice the reflections, (if any). Besides, under
that canopy, you are sitting under one big reflection! Get some good quality
sunglasses, and paint the interior any color that pleases you. Just another
opinion.
Von Alexander
N107RV (RV-4)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER <AB320FLYER(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8A joy ride |
> Just one word discribes this newest anti-gravity
>
machine from Van's "skunk works"; DELIGHTFUL, EXCITING, SENSIBLE,
>
DESIRABLE, , PRACTICAL, take your choice. And yes, I like the nose wheel.
Jerry,
Your description sounds like pure brochure material. Not only are you having
way too much fun, you're turning the rest of us green with envy. We can only
take so much stimulation you know, I guess we're just not in Bill Clinton's
league.
BTW that was way more than one word.
Joel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
> Do you prime the new holes again? Would it be better to prime
>the whole assembly once *EVERY* hole is drilled?
Larry:
All the skins & ribs are Alclad ( thin layer of pure AL) & I think the
rivets.
The thick 6061 members need paint. When you drill a hole, that area is
now not protected & will need paint. Prime every thing last. Couldn't
find Advance, NC on the wall, but if she is going to live need the sail
air much, Prime everything. A lot of midwest people choose to only prime
mating surfaces. Spam cans don't get no prime.
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A-fuselage
donspawn(at)juno.com ~ Arlington, Tx
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
>Or, should I stop
>worrying about such tiny details?
Yes :-)
Rusty
RV-8A (left elevator, wings on the way)
Navarre, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Kennedy <skennedy(at)flash.net> |
I got a number of enquiries regarding the 0-360-A4K which my neighbor
has for sale. To the number one question, the answer is "About $8K".
The location is at "Polly Ranch", an airport community in Friendswood
Texas, south of Houston.
As I have mentioned in some off-list replies, I am not sure of the
suitability of this A4K variant, with the carb aft of the pan. As to
the internal condition of the engine, cam, cylinder walls, etc. since
the engine has been stored for several years, I can not confirm without
a teardown. Do any of you engine gurus out there know if it is possible
to see the cam lobs with a mirror with a jug removed?
Also-- the ring gear ( the one that the starter engages) is not mounted.
Still hope it helps
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Miller <rgmiller(at)acadiacom.net> |
| Subject: | crash in Louisiana |
The New Orleans newspaper reported that a homebuilt aircraft crashed in
the Achafalya swamp last night. Pilot and passanger killed. Anyone
have any details?
Robert Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
Larry, this is one of those things where everyone has an opinion.
Here's mine : It will be impossible to make every hole before
you need to rivet some parts together, and you must prime before you
rivet. Therefore, do what you can and then don't worry too much. For
instance, there is no way you are going to drill the mounting bolt
locations for the horizontal stab until the fuselage is ready to accept
it; you certainly won't wait that long to rivet.
Of the holes you drill through primed surfaces, here is the poop. In
most of these holes you will be placing heavily alodined rivets, so
there is little danger of dissimilar metal corrosion and, if you drive
the rivets soon after you drill the holes, the rivet will help seal the
exposed metal. For bolt holes and others where there will be contact
with dissimilar material or, like the cutouts in the fuselage sides for
the control tube, with air it would be wise to coat the edges with
primer. Bolts are often placed 'wet' with primer.
Finally, what about all those unprimed rivets? On my aircraft, the
exterior will be etched, alodined, primed and painted. My painter said
that the etch and alodine would work into any loose rivets and that the
primer and paint would seal the outside. For the interior heads, most
rivets retain their alodine barrier, even after driving and the risk of
getting enough corrosion to affect them is small. Given the effort to
prime, I'll just rely on regular inspection instead.
One final thing; everyone says prime especially near the ocean and don't
worry so much in the 'mid west' (actually central; I wish people would
look at a map ). Well, the spam cans I saw in CA had no problems
mostly becaus they were hangared and never exposed long to sea air. On
the other hand, the jets at YIP and DET are exposed to huge amounts of
snow and ice removal chemicals, and I don't mean the glycol sprayed on
them. For an auto comparison, my '65 PU has been an outdoor vehicle and
has had several paint jobs in it's life (every six years or so because
of scratches and such in the bed) but no serious corrosion. One winter
in Ann Arbor was enough to spot the grill with rust and caused me to
refrain from driving it at all in the winter. My point: corrosion
agents are everywhere, not where you might expect.
PatK - RV-6A
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> I'm working on the HS skeleton for my RV-8. As I understand it, the
> skeleton is prepared, primed and assembled - then the skins are drilled,
> deburred, dimpled, clecoed and riveted onto said skeleton. Does it matter
> that the holes in the front spare and ribs are drilled after those parts
> are primed? These areas (the holes) are effectively unprimed after
> drilling. Do you prime the new holes again? Would it be better to prime
> the whole assembly once *EVERY* hole is drilled? Or, should I stop
> worrying about such tiny details?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 Details |
---Steve Kennedy wrote:
>
>
> I got a number of enquiries regarding the 0-360-A4K which my neighbor
> has for sale. To the number one question, the answer is "About $8K".
------------------- snip --------------------
Do any of you engine gurus out there know if it is possible
> to see the cam lobs with a mirror with a jug removed?
> Also-- the ring gear ( the one that the starter engages) is not
mounted.
>
> Still hope it helps
>
> Steve
Pulling one jug will allow an inspection of the cam on a pre buy
inspection. You can see enough to make a decision. I do not have my
books in front of me but I think all the Tigers had SOLID cranks so a
conversion to Constant Speed will require a NEW CRANKSHAFT.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
Saturday morning around 8:00am the prototype Zenith CH-801 crashed at
Kitchener/Waterloo Regional airport. The pilot was slightly injured.
Unofficial reports are there was an aileron linkage failure on one
aileron while flying downwind. The pilot was able to complete the
pattern using rudder and the one working aileron. However during the
landing flare the wing tip contacted the runway and the airplane ended
up inverted. The airplane was severly damaged..
Terry Jantzi
RV-6 C-GZRV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
Working on the fuel tanks. I've pulled, pushed and tightened the straps
over the tank skins until I think the whole wing assembly will buckle. I
can't seen to get the botton row of rivets, (the ones that drill through
the rear baffle to get far enough down over the edge radius onto the flat
part to drill. Been working on this for days........HELP!! Anybody have
any suggestions on fitting the tank skins that might help?
Bill Pagan
80555 Tanks(@#$%^&*()'"]{][) :'(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 8:18 AM
Subject: RV-List: FUEL TANKS
>
>Working on the fuel tanks. I've pulled, pushed and tightened the straps
>over the tank skins until I think the whole wing assembly will buckle. I
>can't seen to get the botton row of rivets, (the ones that drill through
>the rear baffle to get far enough down over the edge radius onto the flat
>part to drill. Been working on this for days........HELP!! Anybody have
>any suggestions on fitting the tank skins that might help?
>
>Bill Pagan
>80555 Tanks(@#$%^&*()'"]{][) :'(
>
Hi Bill,
Well, I found that I could not get a good fit with just the straps, but once
I started drilling and clecoing from the top, working parallel to the spar,
the skin was pulled tight to the ribs and fit perfectly by the time I got to
the bottom spar flange. This approach requires the faith that things will
fit :-). I'm working from memory here, but as I recall there was a gap of
about 1/8" between the bottom of the tank skin and the bottom wing skin when
I had the straps tightened as far as I felt comfortable. I had roughly the
same situation with the leading edge skin, by the way. The only other thing
I have to suggest is that you might look at your rib flanges to see that
they are perfectly perpendicular to the web.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
Left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Peck <dpeck(at)ozemail.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Database Update |
G'day Rob,
No I don't have a web site as I only have a fairly slow connection and generally
only use email. Some other people have offered to make it available at their web
sites which should make it more available to all.
regards
David Peck
rimbold wrote:
>
> Have you thought about making the database available via your
> website? If you don't already have a website set up, your ISP
> should allow you to put a moderate sized one on their disk.
>
> --
> --------
> Rob Rimbold
> rimbold(at)ntr.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wntzl(at)execpc.com (David M Wentzell) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:VS405 Lightening Hole? |
Question - re: VS 405 rib. It has the circular pattern punched in, but the
hole is not cut out. Is this an optional lightening hole? Plans do not
specify. Can I cut it out?
wntzl RV6#25361
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:VS405 Lightening Hole? |
Yes, cut it out if you want.
Moe Colontonio
David M Wentzell wrote:
>
>
> Question - re: VS 405 rib. It has the circular pattern punched in, but the
> hole is not cut out. Is this an optional lightening hole? Plans do not
> specify. Can I cut it out?
> wntzl RV6#25361
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flipside" <flipside(at)global.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Journal at Sun-N-Fun |
Sam
Many thanks for sharing your advice and experiences with us potential and
current builders.
A lot of us are stuck in the boonies or far away places and unable to
attend Oshkosh or S&F as often as we would like.
It's guys like you that make rv-list what it is. Also congrats on your home
page - great tips and photos.
Looking forward to your coverage of S&F
Regards
Brian Salzmann - About to order 6A
Johannesburg South Africa
----------
>
> The RV Journal is headed to Sun-N-Fun!
> If all goes according to plans, Sam will land in the middle of Mecca
> Monday morning with the Kodak DC120 digital camera,
try clicking on the following link to see what your
> grimy and sunburned hack can uncover:
>
> http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/scrapbok.html
>
> Sam Buchanan
> "The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
>Working on the fuel tanks. I've pulled, pushed and tightened the straps
>over the tank skins until I think the whole wing assembly will buckle. I
>can't seen to get the botton row of rivets, (the ones that drill through
>the rear baffle to get far enough down over the edge radius onto the flat
>part to drill. Been working on this for days........HELP!! Anybody have
>any suggestions on fitting the tank skins that might help?
>Bill Pagan
Bill,
As I'm sure you know, be carefull not to put too much pressure on your
banding straps.
You might find it helpfull to place 1x1 lengths of wood uder the banding
straps to help keep the skin flat to the ribs. Round tubing works well for
this, as well. With the round tubing, it's easy to roll the tubing downward
(aft) and keep the skin flat as you drill and clecoe. Also, you might
consider removing a little material on the leading edge ribs to allow the
skin to slide into the proper position.
Bob Skinner RV-6 405 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Working on the fuel tanks. I've pulled, pushed and tightened the
>straps
>over the tank skins until I think the whole wing assembly will buckle.
> I
>can't seen to get the botton row of rivets, (the ones that drill
>through
>the rear baffle to get far enough down over the edge radius onto the
>flat
>part to drill. Been working on this for days........HELP!! Anybody
>have
>any suggestions on fitting the tank skins that might help?
>
>Bill Pagan
>80555 Tanks(@#$%^&*()'"]{][) :'(
>
>
>
>
Bill,
The skins do fit but are difficult to pull into position without actually
drilling and clecoing.
When building the tanks for the RV-8A I didn't even use straps until the
top side of the skin was drilled to the ribs. This gives access to the
ribs from the other side which allows you to hold the rib center line
aligned with the skin P.P. holes as you drill. I then drill a couple
holes at a time on each rib, slowly working my way towards the leading
edge. This makes the skin lay down tight and should give you enough to
reach the proper point on the back side.
This all assumes that you have the ribs fluted correctly and the rib
flanges adjusted to 90 deg.
One other thing to check would be that you aren't distorting the rear
baffle when pulling downward with the straps. As described in the man.
this can happen since the baffle isn't supported full width by the "Z"
brackets. It is for this reason that the instructions recommend that you
install temporary blind rivets in the outer most rib to baffle holes,
because these will hold things together better than clecos will.
Hope this helps.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
My information so far is sketchy, but there was a landing mishap involving a
homebuilt aircraft at the airport in Arlington, Washington. I only got a
"glance" at the aircraft on the "tube". It was said that the pilot was
uninjured, and the aircraft may have been a Glasair. It was a low-wing
fiberglass airplane with a three-bladed prop. It appears that he landed with
the landing gear tucked neatly into the gear wells. About the only other
thing I know is that he was on his way to Sun&Fun.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | RV6A F-639 Fwd Seat Floor Panel |
Drawing #37 gives dimensions for cutout to clear F604 bulkhead sides.
If I use these, I will have better than a 1/2" gap between panel and
bulkhead side. Since I could find no photo of this area in the manual
could somebody clue me in on this: snug fit or is there supposed to be a
gap?
Also, probably not a big deal, but which overlaps which: 639 or 640?
Thanks.
Jim So. New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Clecoing #12 hole |
I'm match drilling my assembled 411 to the HS609's and HS603's. As per
George and the manual, these are predrilled with a #30 drill, and now I'm
final drilling them with a #12. However, as soon as I put the largest cleco
in that I had (a #10 3/16" Kwiklok) I noticed that the cleco seems to move a
lot more than the #30 clecos in the #30 holes - is this because of the
slightly smaller hole than the cleco is optimal for? I've looked for a #12
cleco in the online catalogs. but no joy.
Should I continue with the remaining 3 holes in the 411 using #10 cleco, or
could I use the bolts (pushed through down into the worksurface) as a means
of holding everything in line? I really don't want to screw this part up.
Thanks to the list in advance, and proud to have posted my first real
construction question - it means I must actually be building!!!
____
Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751
Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz
442 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand
RV-8 Builder #80630
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 aileron bellcrank bushing |
Listers:
Not sure if this question can be answered by non-RV8 folks. I'm
fabricating/installing my aileron bellcrank assembly now and in the Orndorff
video it says "drill out the bushing" to match the main hinge bolt. The
builder's instructions are even more vague and don't even mention it. Since
the bolt won't go thru the bushing it clearly does need to be drilled out.
How have you done this? With a drill (how did you hold/jig it)? With a
reamer (same question, how do you hold/jig it)?
Thanks!
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
>>Working on the fuel tanks. I've pulled, pushed and tightened the straps
>>over the tank skins until I think the whole wing assembly will buckle. I
>>can't seen to get the botton row of rivets, (the ones that drill through
>>the rear baffle to get far enough down over the edge radius onto the flat
>>part to drill. Been working on this for days........HELP!! Anybody have
>>any suggestions on fitting the tank skins that might help?
>>
>>Bill Pagan
>>80555 Tanks(@#$%^&*()'"]{][) :'(
>>
>Hi Bill,
>
>Well, I found that I could not get a good fit with just the straps, but once
>I started drilling and clecoing from the top, working parallel to the spar,
>the skin was pulled tight to the ribs and fit perfectly by the time I got to
>the bottom spar flange. This approach requires the faith that things will
>fit :-). I'm working from memory here, but as I recall there was a gap of
>about 1/8" between the bottom of the tank skin and the bottom wing skin when
>I had the straps tightened as far as I felt comfortable. I had roughly the
>same situation with the leading edge skin, by the way. The only other thing
>I have to suggest is that you might look at your rib flanges to see that
>they are perfectly perpendicular to the web.
>
>Steve Johnson
>RV-8 #80121
>Left wing
Bill,
Have a good look at the tips of the nose ribs, make sure they are seamed to
90 degrees or a little past and polish off anything remotely proud - try
and make them conform to a curve rather than a series of flats. Put wood
spacers underneath your straps to hold the skins down flat on the ribs. I
would NOT start drilling untill the skins are where you want them.
Leo Davies (I have 300 4" X 2" X 1/2" wood spacing blocks but you have to
come and get them :-) )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com> |
| Subject: | Non-RV question (sorry) for Portland area Rv'ers |
Hi all,
Sorry to waste bandwidth for everyone, but I thought this was for a good
cause...
My sister who lives in Portland, OR has developed an interest in taking
flying lessons. Do any of you in the Portland area have any advice about
good places to learn out there, good instructors, clubs, etc.? I live in
NJ so I'm afraid I'm not much help with regards to the local Portland
aviation scene. She is located near downtown, by the rose gardens.
Thanks in advance for any help. Please reply directly to me so this
doesn't waste any more list bandwidth.
And now back to your regularly scheduled RV-related programming...
Tom Goeddel
tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com
RV-6a (skinning the fuse...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 aileron bellcrank bushing |
Randy,
A 1/4 inch bit is only slightly larger that the i.d. of the bushing and is the
correct size. I put the bushing in vise-grip pliers after I wrapped it in a
piece of foam pad. Drilled it by hand. Takes three seconds and wah lah, it
works.
Good luck,
Dennis Clay
rv-8 #80473 wings close to skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 aileron bell crank bushing |
I used a .2490 reamer (available from Avery) and held it in my vise with
rubber jaws. I was told you need to maintain a close tolerance on this bolt.
>
>Listers:
>
>Not sure if this question can be answered by non-RV8 folks. I'm
>fabricating/installing my aileron bellcrank assembly now and in the Orndorff
>video it says "drill out the bushing" to match the main hinge bolt. The
>builder's instructions are even more vague and don't even mention it. Since
>the bolt won't go thru the bushing it clearly does need to be drilled out.
>How have you done this? With a drill (how did you hold/jig it)? With a
>reamer (same question, how do you hold/jig it)?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Randy Lervold
>-8, #80500, wings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 aileron bellcrank bushing |
>Listers:
>
>Not sure if this question can be answered by non-RV8 folks. I'm
>fabricating/installing my aileron bellcrank assembly now and in the
Orndorff
>video it says "drill out the bushing" to match the main hinge bolt. The
>builder's instructions are even more vague and don't even mention it.
Since
>the bolt won't go thru the bushing it clearly does need to be drilled
out.
>How have you done this? With a drill (how did you hold/jig it)? With a
>reamer (same question, how do you hold/jig it)?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Randy Lervold
>-8, #80500, wings
Randy,
I ran into the same problem. I simply reamed it out while I held it in
place in the bench vise, but padded it with a wrap of an old rag so the
jaws wouldn't mar the surface. I don't exactly recall the drill size,
but a micrometer (which you should have in your tool collection anyway)
will show you what to use. I didn't need an exotic drill bit size, and
found it in my el cheapo Black and Decker drill assortment. I then used
an undersized wooden dowel which I rubbed some polishing compound into
to buff the inside after reaming it. This was not really necessary, but
was easy to do and only took a couple minutes. The resultant fit of the
bushing around the bolt is super smooth.
Hope this helps.
Brian Denk
-8 #379
tanks, center section, etc.
http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
> Spam cans don't get no prime.
>
Just my $0.02 worth. I understand that the new spam cans are getting primed. Read
this in one of the many aviation mags I get.
If you prime before drilling, IMHO, I would not worry about the holes that are
drill through it. Just deburr dimple and rivet. At least half of the time spent
in
building these wonderful aircraft is in prepping the parts for riveting, and
adding even one step in the prep phase slows things down a bunch. Each hole in
a
skin requires 4 deburring steps (2 sides of skin, two sides of skeleton) and 2
dimple steps (skin and skeleton) That's 6 steps in each and every hole in the
skin. And there are a bunch of holes in these planes.
I think on the next RV that I build, I will prime all the parts as they come out
of the box. I don't mind priming the skins, but all those little pieces drive me
nuts
Gary Zilik
RV-6A, S/N 22993, Will be mating wings for the first time next saturday, April
25.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Parts/Bags/Plans Cross-reference database online |
Hi All,
Dave Peck sent me a copy of his RV-6/6A parts cross-reference
database.
I've converted it to HTML (made it into an HTML table) and uploaded it
to my Bunny's Guide Web site. It can be found at
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/4809/rv_parts.htm> --
in the process it has grown form David's 39K text file to a whopping
95K.
There's a link to it from
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/4809/bunnytop.htm>
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N13eer <N13eer(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 aileron bellcrank bushing |
<< Listers:
Since the bolt won't go thru the bushing it clearly does need to be drilled
out.
How have you done this? With a drill (how did you hold/jig it)? With a
reamer (same question, how do you hold/jig it)?
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, wings >>
Randy
A reamer will do the best job. A standard drill will leave marks inside the
bushing. I clamped my bushing in my drill press (not turning) and used a hand
drill to run the reamer up through.
Hope this helps
Alan Kritzman
RV-8 Bottom skins going on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Announcing Puget Sound RV mailing list |
[Resend because matronics.com thought I was trying to subscribe to
rv-list(at)matronics.com, rather than show everyone else how to subscribe to
PugetRV(at)try.to. Hopefully now that my previous message is indented with [>]
symbols the mailserver program at matronics will let this through....]
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Corbitt <donc(at)analogia.com>
Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 8:39 PM
Subject: Announcing Puget Sound RV mailing list
>I'm announcing a new mailing list for RV builders and flyers in the Puget
>Sound (Pacific Northwest) area. This would be a good place for local
>discussions like get togethers, build-ins, fly-ins, etc that don't make
>sense for a worldwide email list.
>
>To subscribe, send email as follows: (Note - this email is being read by a
>program on my computer - just send the subscribe request, don't include any
>human-type remarks....
>
> to: listserv(at)try.to
> subject:
>
> subscribe PugetRV
>
>I suspect this will be a low volume mailing list, so you shouldn't worry
>about another 30 message per day like you get here on rv-list.
>
>Note - I also run mailing lists for CFI's and student pilots, which you can
>subscribe to at the same time
>
> subscribe cfi
> subscribe rec.aviation.student
>
>Send mail directly to me (donc(at)analogia.com) if you have any questions.
>--
>Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Miller <rgmiller(at)acadiacom.net> |
The local news reported a mid-air collission between two bi-planes at an
air show in Lakeland today. Any details?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Davis" <rickd(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airshow crash |
charset="US-ASCII"
Robert,
Two of the four Stearmans from the Red Baron Stearman Squadron were lost
with their pilots.
I found an article w/ video of the crash (weak stomach's cautioned).
http://cnn.com/US/9804/19/briefs.pm.ap/airshow.crash.ap/index.html
Thanks,
Rick
(still pondering which RV to start [RV6A or RV8A])
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Miller <rgmiller(at)acadiacom.net>
Date: Monday, April 20, 1998 12:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: airshow crash
>
>The local news reported a mid-air collission between two bi-planes at an
>air show in Lakeland today. Any details?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy William Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MY NEW Website/RV-8A Pix |
But Moe, I'm an RV-4 pilot, not an RV-8 builder.
Nevertheless, even though the -8 interests me less than the -4/6A/8A,
there are pictures available:
-my web site has the pictures of the yellow RV-8 from AOPA Pilot
-Van's web site has pictures of both RV-8s under the RV-8 section
-several other web sites linked from Van's have a picture or two of the -8
Of course, there just aren't that many pix out there with
only 2 (possibly 3) RV-8s and 1 RV-8A in existence.
I also added a few more RV-8A pictures to my web site:
http://lhotse.up.edu/~jbenedic
~Jeremy :-)
jwb(at)europa.com
> How about some pics of the conventional RV-8? I can't find them anywhere!
>
> Moe Colontonio
>
> I earlier wrote:
> > Oh yeah, there's also 18 RV-8A pictures on the site. The pictures aren't
> > perfect, I'll try to re-download them this weekend when I have time to
> > troubleshoot (they are too dark).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
How much have you shimmed the rear baffle? The plans call for 7/8" to
1"; if you are at one, try lowering the baffle slightly.
PatK - RV-6A
pagan wrote:
>
> Working on the fuel tanks. I've pulled, pushed and tightened the straps
> over the tank skins until I think the whole wing assembly will buckle. I
> can't seen to get the botton row of rivets, (the ones that drill through
> the rear baffle to get far enough down over the edge radius onto the flat
> part to drill. Been working on this for days........HELP!! Anybody have
> any suggestions on fitting the tank skins that might help?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Homebuild crash near DET |
A homebuilt that authorities say was smuggling cocaine and heroine
crashed near here yesterday. Speculation was that he ran out of fuel
and was trying to put it down in a field. The plane was pretty much
destroyed and the pilot killed. The TV news shots showed the remains to
be a composite canard, but I couldn't make out which one. This is an
emotional delimma - should I feel bad or not?
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | " Benim" <benim(at)icomnet.com> |
Re: substituting Cherrymax for solid rivets.
I did a little research into rivet types, strengths, etc.. for a
presentation.
Shear strength for 1/8" T2117 AD rivet is 388 pounds
Shear strength for 1/8" Cherrymax CR rivet is 664 pounds
First glance would say substitute away. In fact I have seen many references
say just that.
However, joint strength depends on more factors than just the shear strength
of the rivet.
For example, the material itself could fail. If you look in Van's
construction manual they list the bearing strength of various thicknesses of
2024-T3 ALCLAD.
Another factor to consider is the amount of stress the joint will need
to withstand in tension. Although riveted joints are designed to be loaded
in shear, it is not a perfect world and joints will be loaded in all
directions. Neither Cherrymax or AD rivets have published strengths in
tension that I could find.
For more information I recommend the following. "Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and
Plumbing Handbook" by Carroll Smith and published by Motorbooks
International, Osceola, WI 54020.
Cherry also has some info on the web at www.avdelcherrytextron.com
However, the info was on N, Q, and Avex rivets only, not Cherrymax.
I realize none of this gives a direct answer but may be of help in your
making a personal determination of if and when to substitute.
And yes, I must confess I have used Cherrymax in just the application you
described. I needed to clamp the pieces together to get the joint tight and
there was no room to buck. I haven't decided yet, but may rework or possibly
add a couple of AD rivets ( I think there is room) before finishing.
Tom Benim
Kinston, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | STANAIR <STANAIR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airshow crash |
It was not at lakeland airshow. It was at kissimmee airshow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: MY NEW Website/RV-8A Pix |
I think the very last paragraph sums it up. There are 18 pictures of the RV-8A,
I
doubt there are 10 pictures in existance of the conventional RV-8. All you guys
going to Sun n Fun, get some RV-8 pics!!
I finally got my website up last night. It's a little rough around the edges, but
I'm working on it. There's some good tips for newer builders. Check it out at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe/welcome.html
Moe
> But Moe, I'm an RV-4 pilot, not an RV-8 builder.
>
> Nevertheless, even though the -8 interests me less than the -4/6A/8A,
> there are pictures available:
>
> -my web site has the pictures of the yellow RV-8 from AOPA Pilot
> -Van's web site has pictures of both RV-8s under the RV-8 section
> -several other web sites linked from Van's have a picture or two of the -8
>
> Of course, there just aren't that many pix out there with
> only 2 (possibly 3) RV-8s and 1 RV-8A in existence.
>
> I also added a few more RV-8A pictures to my web site:
> http://lhotse.up.edu/~jbenedic
>
> ~Jeremy :-)
> jwb(at)europa.com
>
> > How about some pics of the conventional RV-8? I can't find them anywhere!
> >
> > Moe Colontonio
> >
> > I earlier wrote:
> > > Oh yeah, there's also 18 RV-8A pictures on the site. The pictures aren't
> > > perfect, I'll try to re-download them this weekend when I have time to
> > > troubleshoot (they are too dark).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airshow crash |
If anyone know the names of the pilots killed in the Red Baron Mid-air,
please e-mail me off the list.
Thank you
Glenn Gordon
glenng(at)megsinet.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Heinlein <steveh(at)us.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A F-639 Fwd Seat Floor Panel |
>
>Drawing #37 gives dimensions for cutout to clear F604 bulkhead sides.
>If I use these, I will have better than a 1/2" gap between panel and
>bulkhead side. Since I could find no photo of this area in the manual
>could somebody clue me in on this: snug fit or is there supposed to be a
>gap?
>
>Also, probably not a big deal, but which overlaps which: 639 or 640?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jim So. New Mexico
What timing! We hit this exact same problem over the weekend also. The moral
of the story is... don't trust the plans! We decided to make the panel
exactly (no gap) with the feeling that since the panel is removable we can
always take it out and enlarge the cut-out later, if necessary.
Also, the left side skin (the shorter one) gets attached first, then the longer
one overlaps it (on top of the F-619 rib).
Stephen Heinlein
steveh(at)us.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sport Aviation Database Update |
<353206C5.60E4BF3(at)ntr.net>
>
>G'day Rob,
>No I don't have a web site as I only have a fairly slow connection and
generally
>only use email. Some other people have offered to make it available at
their web
>sites which should make it more available to all.
>
>regards
>David Peck
>
Very good. Over the past several weeks, we've begun to solicit
articles and other data items of interest to builders for posting
at the AeroElectric Connection. If you think it would be an
appropriate addition to the kinds of things we're doing, I'd
be pleased to talk about adding it to our own archives. At the
very least, we'll put up a link to what ever site becomes
the resting place for the data. Keep us informed.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Ramblings |
Hello list:
I am very pleased to announce that I have closed up my rudder!
Just want to thank the list for your input on the problems that I had
with its construction, and thought that I would mention some things that
helped me out.
Regarding the rudder horn brace, part R410 (the part from hell!), I
ended up flaring the sides out and then bending a tab on each side to
parallel the rib flange that it gets riveted to. This was required to
close a gap left after the factory bent the stock that R410 is made
from. I also placed a .04" shim, made from cutoff from making the R410
part, on each side of R410, again to further close the gap. I just
couldn't get a nice tight fit otherwise. With making these bends and
using the shims, I now have a nice fit. I truly belive that Van's made
R410 the way it is to act as a right of passage. If you can get by this
part, you can be assured that you can build an RV! :) Of course, I
still have the trime tab to experience!!
On bucking the 4 AN rivets that attach R410 to the rudder horn,
have I got a deal for you! I found that if you use the heavy stainless
steel base from a machinist's square as a bucking bar, you can slip it
right along all the rivets and buck them with no problem at all. I used
a medium sized one that I got from Harbor Freight. Just support it with
two fingers throught your *required* lightening hole in R410, and away
you go. It really worked slick. No damage to the square, either.
Well, gotta get the shop cleaned up and try my luck with the
elevator.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A ser. no. 25171 Elevator!
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Just kidding....I have been in a joking mood today...sorry to waste your time!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Mehrhoff" <99789978(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tornadoes in Nashville |
I missed part of the news, was at sun & fun. What airport got hit?
Stan
Rossville, TN RV-8 almost finished
-----Original Message-----
From: Shelby Smith <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Friday, April 17, 1998 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tornadoes in Nashville
>
>
>>
>>>>>glad you weren't hurt, Shelby... now just think of all the
non-prop-strike
>>Lyc's that will be available to the list as the insurance adjusters start
>>parting these wrecks out...
>>
>>Bill B
>
>I think there will if anything be some O-200s, Continentals, and maybe some
>8 cyl Lycomings. I just got back from over there and this is primarily a
>residential area just east of downtown, one of the oldeset neighborhoods in
>Nashville. You just can't believe the devastation. It is like a giant
>weedeater came through. Most streets are impassable, people all over trying
>to get there lives in order - it is as if it was bombed out.
>
>>
>>_ aren't you getting close to finished? Seems you've been on the list at
>>least as long as I.
>
>Unfortunately not. Just starting my fuselage, but seem to be accumulating
>plenty of parts.
>
>Shelby in Nashville
>Heading to S&F on Saturday.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Close, Jim (Toronto)" <Jim.Close.Toronto(at)alliedsignal.com> |
| Subject: | Buying an Engine |
RV-list message posted by Randy J. Pflanzer - info on Wentworh Aircraft
My only experience comes from stopping at their booth at Sun and Fun
yesterday looking for a rate of climb indicator. When I asked if it was
tagged serviceable they told me no "but it has been fully tested and is
guaranteed for one year". When we pulled it out of the case I noticed
that the fitting had been broken off in the case and there was no way
any line could have been hooked up to it. So much for the fully tested
part of their patter.
----------
From: Randy J. Pflanzer
Subject: RV-List: Buying an Engine
Date: Saturday, April 11, 1998 2:42PM
I'd appreciate any experience that any of you have had with
Wentworth Aircraft in Minnesota. I called him to inquire on
an engine and he has an O-320-D3G with 1900 TT and 450 SMOH
for $9,500. Have any of you purchased an engine from this
guy? Was your experience a good or a bad one. Thanks in
advance for your comments.
I'm about as far as I can go on the wiring without hanging
an engine on the front so I'm looking hard for something,
but patient enough to avoid a quick buying mistake.
Randy Pflanzer RV-6
N417G "Special Angel" - Wiring and various odds and ends.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. VonHoven" <vonhoven(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | RV accident list needed |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------E3830945F6C47AC99EBE6079
Does anyone have an list of RV
accidents? I'm considering buying an
RV-8 but would like to research it a
little more. Please e-mail me at
vonhoven(at)usa.net.
Thank you.
--------------E3830945F6C47AC99EBE6079
begin: vcard
fn: Charles P. VonHoven
n: VonHoven;Charles P.
org: SSC Industries
email;internet: vonhoven(at)usa.net
title: Plant Process Development Engineer/QA Manager
version: 2.1
end: vcard
--------------E3830945F6C47AC99EBE6079--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Homebuild crash near DET |
<< should I feel bad or not? >>
A homebuilt smuggling drugs. You probably should not feel bad. I would be
reasonably sure that the person flying it "did not" build it. It's a
character issue.
I mean, you are looking at a list of people who are probably more honest than
your average individual.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Hi all,
>
> I did a little research into rivet types, strengths, etc.. for a
> presentation.
>
Thanks! I suspect that many of us are prejudiced against "pop" or more
properly, "blind" rivets.
> Shear strength for 1/8" T2117 AD rivet is 388 pounds
> Shear strength for 1/8" Cherrymax CR rivet is 664 pounds
>
The Cherry web page is great. www.avdelcherrytextron.com
I see in Aircraft Spruce Catalog that a Cherry "Q" rivet which has a mandrel
that plugs the rivet body has:
for type CC (the strongest with stainless body and mandrel) is
700 punds in shear and 600 pounds in tension!
> First glance would say substitute away. In fact I have seen many references
> say just that.
>
They are just uglier, maybe?
> However, joint strength depends on more factors than just the shear strength
> of the rivet.
>
But all that applies to both types, right?
We can always use more and larger if in doubt. Some things in my RV seem built
"hell for stout" while others, such as fuselage bulkheads, seem very flimsy. I
suppose this just means I don't understand about aircraft strength.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport & sweating canopy
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Buying an Engine |
Well, this seems fair!!
>
> My only experience comes from stopping at their booth at Sun and Fun
> yesterday looking for a rate of climb indicator. When I asked if it was
> tagged serviceable they told me no "but it has been fully tested and is
> guaranteed for one year". When we pulled it out of the case I noticed
> that the fitting had been broken off in the case and there was no way
> any line could have been hooked up to it.
Tested for what? Tested to look okay.
The unscrupulous seller would claim, when you return it, that you broke it! The
more scrupulous seller would take it back, give you back your money, and put it
back on the shelf to sell again.
There used to be a store here in Silicon Valley that sold computer junk such as
circuit boards, vacuum pumps and huge casters. They put stickers on stuff that
read:
"Guaranteed not to work. If it does work, bring it back for a refund."
I think of vendors - all vendors - as cats and myself as a mouse. Sometimes we
get along splendidly but I am always watchful.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 aileron bellcrank bushing |
<< Takes three seconds and wah lah, it
works. >>
Do you mean Voila?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WBRV <WBRV(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Fwd: [IAC] ATC USER FEES !! |
boundary="part0_893122113_boundary"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--part0_893122113_boundary
--part0_893122113_boundary
by relay24.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0)
with SMTP id VAA26757;
via sendmail with P:stdio/D:aliasinclude/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp
(sender: )
(Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1998-Apr-13)
bytes) by hsi.handmadesw.com
via sendmail with P:smtp/D:aliases/T:pipe
(sender: )
(Smail-3.2.0.101 1997-Dec-17 #2 built 1998-Apr-13)
(Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA205;
From: harley(at)ccimedia.com (harley carnes)
Subject: [IAC] ATC USER FEES !!
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 20:56:45 -0400
Hi.
The following is an actual news dispatch from Reuters - today. April
20th. AP and UPI carry similar stories.
----
User-Funded Air Traffic System Proposed
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Clinton administration proposed legislation
Monday to convert air traffic control services into a business-like
operation that would be mostly financed through user fees.
Government officials said the fees would provide air traffic control
services with adequate funding, exempt from budgetary spending caps, at a
time of rapid growth in air travel.
"We are approaching aviation gridlock if we don't act," Transportation
Secretary Rodney Slater told a news conference, echoing the warnings of t=
he
recent report by the National Civil Aviation Review Commission.
Under the plan, air traffic services would be converted next year into wh=
at
officials are calling a "performance-based organization," supervised by a
chief operating officer.
Fees based on the cost of providing services would then be levied on
airlines starting in 2000.
Slater said existing excise fees such as the 7.5 percent ticket tax could=
be
reduced as revenue began to build from the user fees.
Also sent to Congress Monday was a $9.7 billion Federal Aviation
Administration reauthorization proposal for fiscal 1999 that starts Oct. =
1
this year.
That suggested legislation contained $1.7 billion a year for airport gran=
ts,
coupled to a recommendation to allow airports to increase facility charge=
s
to $4 per passenger from $3 at the moment.
FAA Administrator Jane Garvey said it was too early to say what levels of
fees for different air traffic services were being contemplated.
"We need a strong cost accounting system before we move to a pricing
mechanism and that's what we are aggressively putting in place now," Garv=
ey
told reporters.
In January a U.S. court rejected fees levied by the FAA on foreign flight=
s
overflying U.S. airspace because the charges were not based on FAA's actu=
al
costs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
---
----
If pilots do nothing - make no phone calls and write no letters to their
local (and other members of Congress) - this thing will happen. Bill
Clinton has not yet found an area in which he is unwilling to increase t=
he
fee, or the tax. In aviation - he may think he has found both.
Spread the word. It's real.
Fly safe,
Harley Carnes
--part0_893122113_boundary--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV accident list needed |
You can search the NTSB database for accidents easily. The address is on
my home page.
>Does anyone have an list of RV
>accidents? I'm considering buying an
>RV-8 but would like to research it a
>little more. Please e-mail me at
>vonhoven(at)usa.net.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\vcard4.vcf"
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Red Barons, Formation Flying Etc. |
Listers,
By now most of us have seen the horrible video of the Red Barons crash at
Kissimmee FL. I heard about the crash yesterday afternoon and I "knew" that
it was the Barons, I had that worthless feeling in the bottom of my belly
that I have had before when things like this happen. I also "knew" that my
pal Sonny Lovelace was gone. Last night an airshow friend called and said
that it was the right wing and the slot that tangled. Sonny flew the slot.
This morning I learned on the news that it was in "fact" Sonny Lovelace and
Randy Drake.
I met the Red Barons in 1992 when they flew our local airshow here at MCW.
I was Co-chair and got to know all of them. Sonny was a crop duster from
Nebraska and in a former life I sold Ag Chemicals. We shared many mutual
friends. I saw him at 3 or 4 shows every summer and at the ICAS convention
in every December. We hoisted a few beers over the past 6 years. When ever
I would hear the Red Barons on the radio in my civil aviation travels I
would ask who was there. If Sonny was in the group he would always recognize
my voice and respond in his deep Nebraska farmer drawl "Hey Doug."
Randy Drake was new to the Red Barons in 1992 and flew his first solo
airshow at MCW that year. The next year he started flying with the team. We
had a freelance video guy and Randy always wanted a copy of his first
airshow performance, I never got it for him and I am sorry for that.
There is a reason for my rambling here, These guys have flown more
formation than nearly anyone alive. If you watched them go cross country,
most of the
time it was in "parade" formation, they flew 2 or 3 shows at 20 sites each
summer and gave formation rides during the week. I fly alot of formation
and have a CAF and a NATA formation rating. I get to fly the B-25 at wild
airspeeds at low altitudes right in front of big crowd with the FAA watching
and it is legal. I know how easy it is to get caught up in the excitment
and take
things for granted. These RVs make us all feel like fighter pilots, and we
find our selves doing things that we would never consider in a Cessna.
The Red Barons flew a safe show. It was not close to the ground and did not
derive its entertainment value from being death defying. Its value was in
its precision and its energy. They flew close, but not really close, They
left some margin. Those of you in business know the definition of quality
is low variability. The Red Barons had a quality act. Having said that,
without second guessing what happened, it is safe to say that some event
used up their margin of error. Whether it was a mechanical problem, a wind
gust, or human error, the margin was used up and the price was high.
The flying season is just getting started in full swing for many of us. We
will be out showing off and having fun in our hot rods. When we are doing
this and the other antics we enjoy, please remember that we give up a
tremendous amout of the margin for error we enjoy in aviation. I am not
recommending that we stop flying formation or having fun. But as we dust
off our airplanes and our skills for the summer season, remember to ponder
the skill of ourselves, those we fly with, and the capabilities of our
airplanes. Leaving plenty of margin on all of them will assure we will
still be around next winter. If we all use this as a cue to take a moment
and do this, maybe this terrible tragedy will not be in vain.
So long Sonny & Randy,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rhett Westerman <rhettw(at)premier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: crash in Louisiana |
>
>
> The New Orleans newspaper reported that a homebuilt aircraft crashed in
> the Achafalya swamp last night. Pilot and passanger killed. Anyone
> have any details?
It was a Glassair III that went down in IFR. I just have verbal details so I will
refrain from posting them .
--
----------------------------------------
Rhett Westerman
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
rhettw(at)premier.net
http://www.premier.net/~rhettw/index.htm
----------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV accident list needed |
About a year ago someone on the list posted an excellent review of RV
accidents. I suggest checking the archives.
Ron Taborek RV- 4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
Re: Should stuff be painted before or after drilling?
You should prime after drilling, deburring, and dimpling, but before
riveting. If you prime before these steps, then there's a chance
that you'll weaken the primer to metal bond where the dimple die
contacts the metal. The metal is deformed a small amount on the
flat surface, and (obviously) quite a bit in the dimple.
Rather than risking paint delamination around all of the dimpled
rivets, we're priming after that step. I've never heard of paint
coming off like that, but it seems to me that it's a risk that doesn't
have to be taken.
On the (rare - I swear! :-) occasions that we forget to drill a hole
and don't realize it until after the piece is painted, we just drill
it, deburr and dimple it, and don't worry about it.
---
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV accident list needed |
| From: | seaok71302(at)Juno.com (mike a adams) |
>
>Does anyone have an list of RV
>accidents? I'm considering buying an
>RV-8 but would like to research it a
>little more.
>
>
Go to Yahoo search engine and type: rv ntsb
You will find many accidents. I did not find a single one attributed to
the RV airframe/design.
We could all learn from those who have gone before us and avoid repeating
a mistake, in some cases, fatal; this is perhaps the only homage we could
pay to those who gave their lives in the pursuit of rvation. Common
threads include pilot training, pilot judgement, and engine failure.
Mike Adams/-4#2316
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AIRPLANEIT <AIRPLANEIT(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Drug Traffickers |
Here's a little humor for you guys who said, "He didn't build it" regarding
the experimental canard used for drug trafficking. I was talking to a good
friend about the subject, and he mentioned he knows a guy, who knows a guy,
who knows a guy, who is having a Seawind with a turbine engine built for him,
he is also training a couple pilots. He would do it all himself, except for
the fact that he's in jail for drug trafficking. Would this be a business
expense?
-Nick Stolley
With all these plane crashes, do we need a day off like the Air Force and
Navy got?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Red Barons, Formation Flying Etc. |
My sympathies to the family and friends of the two Red Baron pilots. Are there
any assumptions yet as to what happened? In watching the video, I could not
help but think 'heart attack', or some other instantly debilitating ailment.
The upper biplane dove into the lower one so rapidly, it seems unlikely to be
control failure. Looked more liked the pilot slumped forward, hitting the
stick, going rapidly down. A truly tragic accident, and as Doug already said,
makes us all take a closer look at how we fly and how we can be safer.
Von Alexander
RV-4 N107RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Homebuild crash near DET |
In the interest of accurate reporting, I have to say that the newspaper
report differed from the TV news. The newspaper said that the plane was
stuffed with 300 pounds of marijuana (where did he put it all?). They
also mentioned that a couple of the 'rescuers' grabbed bags of drugs and
money and took off.
The other major difference in the reporting is that the TV news implied
that Customs aircraft had been chasing the plane; in other words,
distracting the pilot. The paper says that Customs aircraft were
monitoring the aircraft, since it crossed the border at low altitude
with no transponder, but there was no indication that the pilot knew
they were there.
On thing I am pleased about: neither the TV or paper news have
identified the aircraft as other than homebuilt. They have not
speculated as to type, but they are learning not to jump to
misidentification. Glad to see it wasn't a composite C-152 :). In
fact, a Cessna did actually go down in Canton (looked like a 152 from
the photos) and they only called it a 'light plane'. I guess they are
tired of letters and calls from the local GA community.
PatK
I wrote:
>
> A homebuilt that authorities say was smuggling cocaine and heroine
> crashed near here yesterday.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Red Barons, Formation Flying Etc. |
: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>My sympathies to the family and friends of the two Red Baron pilots.
Are there
>any assumptions yet as to what happened? In watching the video, I could
not
>help but think 'heart attack', or some other instantly debilitating
ailment.
>The upper biplane dove into the lower one so rapidly, it seems unlikely
to be
>control failure. Looked more liked the pilot slumped forward, hitting
the
>stick, going rapidly down. A truly tragic accident, and as Doug already
said,
>makes us all take a closer look at how we fly and how we can be safer.
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-4 N107RV
Von,
It's very likely that the pilot was, indeed, incapacitated, as I've
watched the video several times. The aircraft suddenly went into a pitch
excursion and a slight roll bobble as it failed to complete the constant
radius pullout with the other a/c. The only other possibility I can
think of is a failure of the elevator control, and the aircraft simply
unloaded and followed it's energy vector into the aircraft below. Let's
take this opportunity to make absolutely SURE that our elevator pushrods
CANNOT in any way become disconnected from the end bearings.
Let us all hope that this is the last time we adress an issue such as
this. Fly each flight like your life depends on it...because it DOES.
Best regards to all,
Brian Denk
-8 #379
IAC, AOPA, EAA
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Red Barons, Formation Flying Etc. |
Doug,
Well said, It was a bad weekend for Aviation, the pilot killed in Bridgeport
Conn. was a friend and one of the people that got me involved in the hobby,
Charlie Gunsburg lived in my Condo Development and was a very active member of
our community.
Your statements are right on the mark, the season is just getting started,
and everyone from Student Pilot to Commercial needs to take stock of their
level
of skill. Its no shame to go back and get some dual with a CFII, and brush
up.
Its aslo no shame to keep your personal minimums high.
I sit here and get angry that he left knowing that the weather was bad, and
made a bad choice. We all have to remember that the choices we make not only
affect us but our families that must go on. My friend leaves a wife & a 6
year old son that loved to fly with his dad.
So to all my building pilot friends - lets make the 1998 Flying Season a Safe
One
In Memory of Charles Gunsburg
Bill Sivori
(N929RV) Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Prime-n-drill vs Drill-n-prime |
Some small stuff to sweat...
A small spot of corrosion developed on the underside of one of the magnesium
elevators on my Debonair. The small spot turned into a small hole resulting in
IA squawking and a $5000 expense. Small, non-alclad breaks probably ought to be
painted, right?
hal
>
> On the (rare - I swear! :-) occasions that we forget to drill a hole
> and don't realize it until after the piece is painted, we just drill
> it, deburr and dimple it, and don't worry about it.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HillJW <HillJW(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | nose gear on rv's |
I am at the wing stage on an rv-8 or 8a. Trying to decide which. You 6a
drivers please tell me, how much of a problem do the nose gears give regarding
shimmy?
I once had a Grumman, which was very good, but did occasionally have some nose
gear shimmy. It had to have the tension set just right. Do the rv-6a's have
this same tendency? Also, how much cruise speed do the nose gears cost?
Thanks.
hilljw(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Formation Flying |
I am looking for an RV pilot(s) in the Southern California area that
have the formation flying card and would like to fly formation with
other RVs. I have attended the ground school and need more practice
for my sign off. I have one friend with a RV-4 wingman card and is
working toward his lead card. We have and do fly together. Looking
for others who can safely join us.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Red Barons, Formation Flying Etc. |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> By now most of us have seen the horrible video of the Red Barons crash at
> Kissimmee FL. I heard about the crash yesterday afternoon and I "knew" that
> it was the Barons, I had that worthless feeling in the bottom of my belly
> that I have had before when things like this happen. I also "knew" that my
> pal Sonny Lovelace was gone.
Doug,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. We have been fortunate to
enjoy the Red Barons at Aerospace America in Oklahoma City. And yes,
they were the best and gave it all they had each performance so that
guys like me could wonder in amazement at how they do it. We lost a
great pilot & friend by the name of Tom Jones at Aerospace America
several years ago and the pain was hard to deal with. I only know that
guys like Sonny, Randy, and Tom would have chosen to go out no other way
than in the glory of their act. When our day comes, may we be so lucky.
Have Faith.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
how much of a problem do the nose gears give regarding
> shimmy?
There is a spring washer in the nose gear assembly. As long as it is
kept to the proper tension there is no shimmy what-so-ever. On my 6A, I
had set the break-out tension once upon assembly. Then after about 5-6
hours, everything settled into place reducing the tension level and a
shimmy developed. I retightened the nut back to specs and never had a
problem again.
> Also, how much cruise speed do the nose gears cost?
Supposedly the nose gear costs about 2 mph. However my 6As speed matches
my hangar partner's RV-4, demonstating that there are many variables
which will increase or decrease your end result cruise speed by a mph or
so. All of these factors add and subtract to the end result to give very
minor speed differences to similar aircraft. A nose wheel - tail wheel
decision should not be based on airspeed goals.
Andy Gold
RV-6A N-5060 flying
http://www.rvbookstore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
I've got 21 hours on my 6A and have not encountered ANY problems with the nose
gear as yet.
Walt N79WH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Formation Flying |
Gary;
I am still learning about requirements for civilian flying.
What is 'the formation flying card'? Wingman card and lead card? Is this
like the tail wheel thing? When I started to fly civilian, after a career
in the AF and a 20 year layoff from flying, when I looked at a tail dragger
I got the impression I would have to go back to a flying school for some new
kind of civilian lic (I had gotten a civ. single engine land commercial
instrument rating years ago by just submitting paper work). Turned out the
words I was getting were opinions.
Please inform me regarding this formation card thing. I've just been doing
it. Am I now a prime target for FAA to send me to jail?
I ask on the list for it seems that there are more than one of us old timer
retired military. The others can't be as dumb as I am about this., but they
too may have some question.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary A. Sobek <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 22:16
Subject: RV-List: Formation Flying
>>have the formation flying card and would like to fly formation with
>other RVs. I have attended the ground school and need more practice
>for my sign off. I have one friend with a RV-4 wingman card and is
>working toward his lead card
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
>I once had a Grumman, which was very good, but did occasionally have some nose
>gear shimmy. It had to have the tension set just right. Do the rv-6a's have
>this same tendency? Also, how much cruise speed do the nose gears cost?
>Thanks.
>hilljw(at)aol.com
>
>
After 100 hours, I've never had a problem with nose wheel shimmy. Just make
sure you recheck the break out force on the nose gear after greasing it.
This is covered in the construction manual. Setting the correct break out
force is a no-brainer.
Assuming all other variables are the same, I've been quoted at a 2 mph
penalty for the nose gear. Two weeks ago, my RV-6A outran a 4 by about 7
mph. Both A/C have an O-320, mine with a Hartzell, the 4 had a wood prop.
Personally, my biggest concern with the trike is it's weight penalty. I'm
not about to start the "To step or not to step" debate, but a trike with
pilot and passenger side steps will weight about 20 pounds more than a
taildragger.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
Speaking of nose gear....I have temporarily given up trying to drill a hole for
the stop
ring - the first part to go on the wheel end - as after going in about 1/4 inch
each way with a eighth inch bit and lots of oil it is so hard it instantly dulls
the a new bit.
Any suggestions as to how to deal with this?? Special bits, annealing,
welding???
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
Hal,
Its been a while, but I don't recall having to drill the "Stop Ring" to fit
on the nose
gear. As best I recall, it already came drilled for the nose gear shaft and I
just had to
slip it on.. You might want to check with Van in case you got one that was not
drilled at
the factory.
Ed
RV-6A N494BW
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
> Speaking of nose gear....I have temporarily given up trying to drill a hole for
the stop
> ring - the first part to go on the wheel end - as after going in about 1/4 inch
> each way with a eighth inch bit and lots of oil it is so hard it instantly dulls
> the a new bit.
>
> Any suggestions as to how to deal with this?? Special bits, annealing,
> welding???
>
> hal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
>
>Speaking of nose gear....I have temporarily given up trying to drill a
hole for the stop
>ring - the first part to go on the wheel end - as after going in about 1/4
inch
>each way with a eighth inch bit and lots of oil it is so hard it instantly
dulls
>the a new bit.
>
>Any suggestions as to how to deal with this?? Special bits, annealing,
>welding???
>
>hal
I used a cobalt bit and a very slow drill (1/2" Makita). After about 1/8"
of drilling (or less) I'd pull the bit from the hole and run it in a small
cup of oil. BTW, I used engine oil but probably most any good oil would work.
I first drilled with an 1/8" bit and then went to the 5/16" (I think that
was the size). This was in the upper gear legs of an RV-6.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/14/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
Scott Gesele wrote:
>
>
> >I once had a Grumman, which was very good, but did occasionally have some nose
> >gear shimmy. It had to have the tension set just right. Do the rv-6a's have
> >this same tendency? Also, how much cruise speed do the nose gears cost?
> >Thanks.
> >hilljw(at)aol.com
> >
> >
>
> After 100 hours, I've never had a problem with nose wheel shimmy. Just make
> sure you recheck the break out force on the nose gear after greasing it.
> This is covered in the construction manual. Setting the correct break out
> force is a no-brainer.
>
> Assuming all other variables are the same, I've been quoted at a 2 mph
> penalty for the nose gear. Two weeks ago, my RV-6A outran a 4 by about 7
> mph. Both A/C have an O-320, mine with a Hartzell, the 4 had a wood prop.
>
> Personally, my biggest concern with the trike is it's weight penalty. I'm
> not about to start the "To step or not to step" debate, but a trike with
> pilot and passenger side steps will weight about 20 pounds more than a
> taildragger.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
>
>
>
Regarding the step on RV-6A - one owner reported that the steps cost him
5MPH so I skipped mine. Also wheel shimmy is no problem IF you set the
break out correctly. I also experienced the need to reset it - no big
problem - after a few hours of use. Since them no problems whatsoever.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tornadoes in Nashville |
>
>I missed part of the news, was at sun & fun. What airport got hit?
>
>Stan
>Rossville, TN RV-8 almost finished
It was Cornelia Fort.
Shelby just back from S & F.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: airshow crash |
>
>It was not at lakeland airshow. It was at kissimmee airshow.
>
There was a fatal accident in Lakeland on Tuesday morning. It was an
ultra-light. Don't know any other details.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: Red Barons, Formation Flying Etc. |
>
>My sympathies to the family and friends of the two Red Baron pilots. Are there
>any assumptions yet as to what happened? In watching the video, I could not
>help but think 'heart attack', or some other instantly debilitating ailment.
>The upper biplane dove into the lower one so rapidly, it seems unlikely to be
>control failure. Looked more liked the pilot slumped forward, hitting the
>stick, going rapidly down. A truly tragic accident, and as Doug already said,
>makes us all take a closer look at how we fly and how we can be safer.
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-4 N107RV
I was in Lakeland and it was very gusty. The clips I saw gave the
impression the back middle pilot came down on top of the right wing pilot,
which was kind of in a blind, IMO, spot. The guts I am sure were
contributing issues.
Even with all the safety precautions, it is a high risk endeavor. What we
are doing even with the safety record of RVs is high risk. There are higher
risk and lower risk, but the risk is there - always.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
You need steady firm pressure to drill that stuf. With insufficent
pressure
it work hardens fast. H ave you tried a cobalt bit? If that wont do it a
diamond
bit will probably get thru the workhardened area.
stew Rv273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Searching_for_Latex_Gloves |
--divider
Att. Sales / Export Department
Re: Request for LATEX GLOVES
A "RFQ" for LATEX GLOVES products which, to the best of our
knowledge are similar to those offered by you ,was placed with us
by one of our clients.
We are a world wide sourcing firm and we are paid by our clients to
find them suitable suppliers .
To you ,our service is totally free of charge !!!
The information we will get from you will not only be immediately sent
to this particular client but also to all other clients looking for
similar products .
To define and advise us the products you are interested to export
and/or to get more information about us and our FREE SERVICE , please
use our Internet interface at: http://www.thebol.com
Best Regards
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Purchasing department
--divider--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglassing Clay |
Does anyone have a source for clay to make up molds for
fiberglassing? I believe it is called "Plastalene" (?). I am going to make
a custom tail fairing for my -6. The local people that handle resins and
glass haven't heard of it. Sam James demostrates it use on his fiberglass
tape I got from Van's. It look like I could do that...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
----------
> Any suggestions as to how to deal with this?? Special bits, annealing,
Try a cobalt bit and Boelube
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8's @ Sun n Fun? |
For those of you who have been to Sun n Fun, any RV-8's there yet, besides the
factory models? Louis Smith is about the only one I know of that is done or
near done with an RV-8, but there may be others.
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544 Fuse Jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lott, Michael" <Michael.Lott(at)ssc.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Formation Flying |
What is involved in getting these cards? Is it a legal proposition, or just
something on the "side"?
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary A. Sobek [SMTP:rv6flier(at)yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 8:14 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Formation Flying
I am looking for an RV pilot(s) in the Southern California area that
have the formation flying card and would like to fly formation with
other RVs. I have attended the ground school and need more practice
for my sign off. I have one friend with a RV-4 wingman card and is
working toward his lead card. We have and do fly together. Looking
for others who can safely join us.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Clay |
> Does anyone have a source for clay to make up molds for
> fiberglassing?
Modeling clay comes to mind - get it at art stores, hobby shops maybe even toy
stores. My wife used to do pottery and they got into making pottery clay, which
has much higher criteria, from plain old mud. I think these modeling clays are
just clay dirt dried and mixed with oil.
Modeling clay is not real cheap. I was thinking of taking the fairing they sent
me (must be for an RV1) and cutting it back some, taping it, then adding to it
with something. Maybe get wife involved.
Paper Macheie (ma-shay) made from water and newspaper could work. Might shrink
too much tho.
Wasn't it Jim COne who made wing fairings using florist foam and filing it to
shape?
Doesn't anyone peddle a fairing that fits?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johnnie989 <Johnnie989(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun? |
Rv's are here
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Speaking of nose gear....I have temporarily given up trying to drill a
>hole for the stop
>ring - the first part to go on the wheel end - as after going in about
>1/4 inch
>each way with a eighth inch bit and lots of oil it is so hard it
>instantly dulls
>the a new bit.
Besides steady pressure you also need to turn the bit slooooowly.
Try keeping it at no more than 150 RPM or so.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
<353D54FE.205D(at)rkymtnhi.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>how much of a problem do the nose gears give regarding
>> shimmy?
>
>There is a spring washer in the nose gear assembly. As long as it is
>kept to the proper tension there is no shimmy what-so-ever. On my 6A,
>I
>had set the break-out tension once upon assembly. Then after about 5-6
>hours, everything settled into place reducing the tension level and a
>shimmy developed. I retightened the nut back to specs and never had a
>problem again.
>
>
>> Also, how much cruise speed do the nose gears cost?
>
>Supposedly the nose gear costs about 2 mph. However my 6As speed
>matches
>my hangar partner's RV-4, demonstating that there are many variables
>which will increase or decrease your end result cruise speed by a mph
>or
>so.
I agree with every thing Andy has mentioned and wanted to add that
another thing that can cause nose wheel shimmy on an RV-6A
is having too high of air pressure in the tire. If the tire has too
round of a profile, it has a much smaller foot print on the ground and
more of a possibility to shimmy.
I usually keep them aired up to where the entire tread area of the tire
is just barely in contact with a smooth paved surface (around 25 PSI).
As for speed differences, it is also my experience that there is more
difference caused by construction quality/finishing factors than whether
the third wheel is in the front or in the back.
My RV-6A was faster than a # of RV-6's that I compared it to (it was also
slower than a # of them also).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun? |
<<
For those of you who have been to Sun n Fun, any RV-8's there yet, besides
the
factory models? Louis Smith is about the only one I know of that is done or
near done with an RV-8, but there may be others.
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544 Fuse Jig
>>
Von,
I was at Lakeland from Friday night through Tuesday morning and hadn't seen
any other than the factory models. I am in the middle of painting right now.
I did speak with Frank in Fayetteville, NC yesterday. He has finished his
RV-8 and painted it also. Now he is just waiting on the inspection. He said
he has been doing taxi tests. We have both used PPG DELTRON 2000 basecoat and
CONCEPT 2001 Clear on our RV-8s with very good results. It's not cheap
though. Hope to be in the air sometime in May. I think there are at least 4
or 5 others that could fly any day.
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
#80126
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Fiberglassing Clay |
Denny,
Go to your hobby shop or artist type shop. All you need is everyday "modeling"
clay". Any color works. Just scrape it out after the epoxy is cured.
Laird
RV-6 22923 systems installations
owens(at)aerovironment.com (the solor airplane people)
_______________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv-list(at)matronics.com on Wed, Apr 22, 1998 4:41 PM |
| Subject: | Fiberglassing Clay |
Does anyone have a source for clay to make up molds for
fiberglassing? I believe it is called "Plastalene" (?). I am going to make
a custom tail fairing for my -6. The local people that handle resins and
glass haven't heard of it. Sam James demostrates it use on his fiberglass
tape I got from Van's. It look like I could do that...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Clay |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have a source for clay to make up molds for
> fiberglassing? I believe it is called "Plastalene" (?). I am going to make
> a custom tail fairing for my -6. The local people that handle resins and
> glass haven't heard of it. Sam James demostrates it use on his fiberglass
> tape I got from Van's. It look like I could do that...
>
Use regular modeling clay from any art store - it has an oil in it that
prevents hardening and lasts forever. You can use it without any further
release agent. It costs only a few dollars per pound. I made my wheel
pants to leg fairing and leg to fuselage fairings that way and it worked
swell.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Formation Flying |
>
>What is involved in getting these cards? Is it a legal proposition, or
just
>something on the "side"?
>
Here is what the FAR's say about formation.
Sec. 91.111 Operating near other aircraft.
(a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to another aircraft as to
create a collision hazard.
(b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by
arrangement with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in
formation flight.
That is all. You will find nothing in the FAR's about Formation cards or
anything relating to the subject. However if you had an FAA Inspectors
Handbook which is the where you will find how the FAA choses to enforce the
regulations you would find lots about formation cards.
When an airshow promoter applies for a waiver of specific regulations to
hold an airshow, if it is granted, he will recieve a large document called
the special provisions. One of those provisions will be that all pilots
that fly in formation while the waiver is in effect will be required to have
a industry approved card. These cards are issued by industry groups that
have an approved training and standardization program. Most of the approved
groups are signatories to the FAST Group. Included are Confederate Air
Force, North American Trainers Assn, T-28's, T-34 Assn, P-51 group, L-birds
and others.
The purpose of this was to ensure that when you show up at an Airshow in
your T-XX you have some assurance that the other people you will fly with
have passed some type of training program and checkride. That is how it is
supposed to work and it has made improvements in the quality of formation
flying in the Warbird community. Most importantly it standardized the T-34
formation manual as the "standard" for hand signals and formations.
So, formation cards are need only if you plan to fly formation during at an
airshow when a waiver is in effect. You can fly-by before the waiver starts
without it, if the promoter will let you.
For those of you who want to learn more, The T-34 Formation manual is an
excellent manual for anyone who is serious about learning how to safely and
professionally fly formation. It is a great starting point. I am sure it
is available thru EAA. For graduate level work Darton International
produced a Video that puts the T-34 book in a visual format. It is more
exciting than Martha King, but it certainly is not Top Gun.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternative electric trim kits |
| From: | gretz-aero(at)Juno.com (Warren Gretz) |
For those of you that have been asking me about my alternative electric
elevator trim tab kits, which incorporates the MAC servo, I now have a
flyer with a photo showing the installation. If you would like to
receive one of these flyers as well as the flyers on my other products,
please contact me with your postal mail address. My list of products is
growing and now includes this new electric trim tab kit, pitot tube
mounting bracket kits, pitot tubes (two styles), and the ToolKey. The
ToolKey is a polished stainless steel keyfob tool for opening fuel caps
and has your RV model number in the head.
I look forward to introducing you to my RV aircraft parts.
Warren Gretz, (Gretz Aero)
3664 East Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
gretz-aero(at)juno.com
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Formation Flying |
Doug is 100% correct. I could not say it better. L-birds have a Joint
Liaison Formation Committee Operations Manual, and recommend the same
books as Doug plus recommend The Canadian Bushhawks Liaison Squadron
Formation Manual.
BTW: I turn 41 shortly. I was flying tailwheel before an endorsement
was required. I only have 25 hours more Tricycle time than I do
tailwheel. (not for long.) I also was flying formation before the
new requirements. Want to be legal to fly in wavered airspace in a
flight. (Would you not like to see RV's flying legally in air shows?)
---Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
---------- snip ----------
> Sec. 91.111 Operating near other aircraft.
---------- snip ----------
> When an airshow promoter applies for a waiver of specific
regulations to
> hold an airshow, if it is granted, he will recieve a large document
called
> the special provisions. One of those provisions will be that all
pilots
> that fly in formation while the waiver is in effect will be required
to have
> a industry approved card. These cards are issued by industry groups
that
> have an approved training and standardization program. Most of the
approved
> groups are signatories to the FAST Group. Included are Confederate
Air
> Force, North American Trainers Assn, T-28's, T-34 Assn, P-51 group,
L-birds
> and others.
---------- snip -----------
> Most importantly it standardized the T-34
> formation manual as the "standard" for hand signals and formations.
>
> So, formation cards are need only if you plan to fly formation
during at an
> airshow when a waiver is in effect.
---------- snip ----------
> For those of you who want to learn more, The T-34 Formation manual
is an
> excellent manual for anyone who is serious about learning how to
safely and
> professionally fly formation. It is a great starting point. I am
sure it
> is available thru EAA. For graduate level work Darton International
> produced a Video that puts the T-34 book in a visual format. It is
more
> exciting than Martha King, but it certainly is not Top Gun.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Clay |
>
> Does anyone have a source for clay to make up molds for
>fiberglassing? I believe it is called "Plastalene" (?). I am going to make
Danny,
"plasticine" is the greasy re-usable modelling clay you played with as a
kid. Toys R Us should have it in the U.S. Don't spend any more than a dollar.
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jay Humbard <jhumb(at)spaceghost.apexcorp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
<353D54FE.205D(at)rkymtnhi.com> <19980312.235909.7542.0.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
> >how much of a problem do the nose gears give regarding
> >> shimmy?
> >
I once had a Grumman Cheetah with a castering training wheel and it
shimmied so bad I often worried about it coming off. This went on for
years, causing me to perfect the flight instructors advise to "hold it
off........". Through several annuals, and 2 different shops the
nosewheel shimmy remained an unsolved squawk.
One day I took an out of town friend of mine for a ride and he casually
remarked that the nose wheel was out of balance. (I should add that he
had been a Grumman dealer some years prior). His shop balanced the
nosewheel (for something under $100) and the old gal completely lost the
shimmies, at least until I replaced her nose tire some years later.
An imbalanced wheel experiencing rapid angular acceleration on the end
of a spring arm (and scraping on the pavement) made this solution seem
intuitively correct to me. Anyhow, it worked.
Balance those training wheels!
Jay Humbard
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Tillman" <till3(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | painting the rv8 |
howdy, please contact me direct reference painting. am trying to get set up
for that stage now while waiting for our wings. thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lousmith <Lousmith(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun?
>
>
><<
> For those of you who have been to Sun n Fun, any RV-8's there yet, besides
>the
> factory models? Louis Smith is about the only one I know of that is done
or
> near done with an RV-8, but there may be others.
> Thanks.
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 #544 Fuse Jig
> >>
>
>Von,
>I was at Lakeland from Friday night through Tuesday morning and hadn't seen
>any other than the factory models. I am in the middle of painting right
now.
>I did speak with Frank in Fayetteville, NC yesterday. He has finished his
>RV-8 and painted it also. Now he is just waiting on the inspection. He
said
>he has been doing taxi tests. We have both used PPG DELTRON 2000 basecoat
and
>CONCEPT 2001 Clear on our RV-8s with very good results. It's not cheap
>though. Hope to be in the air sometime in May. I think there are at least
4
>or 5 others that could fly any day.
>
>Louis Smith
>RV-8 N801RV
>#80126
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Clay |
I was ignoring modeling clay because the video tape Van sells made by Sam
James stated "you don't want kids play clay because it has oil in it." But
if some of you used it I will give it a try. Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
> pilot and passenger side steps will weight about 20 pounds more than a
> taildragger.
Don't forget that there is an additional 50 lbs gross weight for the 6A.
Doug Gray
RV-6 and puzzled as to why this is the case.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
| Subject: | Re: Formation Flying |
Reguarding the formation "cards" or "patches" the FAA does'nt requre
them but you will need it to do airshow flyby's in formation or to join
the "Mass gaggles" at certain air expos. I am not aware of an RV
specific card but do know that the T-34 assn. runs a program to certify
warbird types and all others. There are a few places around the country
to get this card, Texas Air Aces in Houston, TX at Hooks airport using
T-34s is a good place to go. Their website is www.airaces.com.
Give Don Wylie a call there. All the instructors are ex-mil and they
can do a combat package, acro or Advanced Maneuvers program for you too.
What really makes the experience a good instructional fight(s) is the
onboard 4 camera video that records the whole flight and is a great
review for later.
JW (TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Comfort <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Clay |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> I was ignoring modeling clay because the video tape Van sells made by Sam
> James stated "you don't want kids play clay because it has oil in it." But
> if some of you used it I will give it a try. Thanks!
A better product than modeling clay is used by the auto industry in
building clay models and is referred to as "mockup clay". It is
maintained at 105-110F. and when cooled to room temp can be tooled and
smoothed fairly well. Perhaps this is what Sam James was referring to.
Unfortunately I cannot tell you where to get it. I know it is
manufactured by one of the clay companies in NE Ohio. Most design
schools would have it or at least know of it and anyone in auto body
design could advise. Mine came from the auto industry. I have also
used modeling clay for small parts with some success. The epoxy doesn't
seem to mind for non structural applications. Mockup clay is best.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman <Rvbirdman(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Clay |
I used modeling clay for my gear leg intersection fairings and it worked well.
The oil is a natural mold release and I used the wide package sealing tape
sold to use in the handheld dispenser as release for the area around where the
glass was applied. Great release when done, but had to use some thinner to
remove some of the tape residue after removing the tape. All in all worked
great.
Gary
RV-6 N827GB
Ready for paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Clay |
<< Use regular modeling clay from any art store - it has an oil in it that
prevents hardening and lasts forever. You can use it without any further
release agent. It costs only a few dollars per pound. I made my wheel
pants to leg fairing and leg to fuselage fairings that way and it worked
swell. >>
I would add my agreement to this advice. I scratch-built my own empennage
fairing over a substrate of window screen and bondo. It turned out well, but
I now believe that splitting the original part and filling the gaps with epoxy
or polyester and glass would have been far easier and worked as well.
I used the "Cone method" of florist foam and epoxy for my wing root fairings
with good results, though the process took weeks, not hours, as Jim reported.
But then I forgot what I learned on the gear-leg to wheel-pant fairings, which
were done with modeling clay, and tried to use the foam blocks beneath the
gear-leg to fuselage fairings. IMO, I ended up with much too bulky a
fiberglass part by doing this. The foam does not lend itself well to small
shapes and smooth transitions to tangential surfaces. Use the clay instead.
But let me warn you that the moisture or oils in the clay will impede the
setup of polyester resin, which I otherwise prefer for non-structural parts
because of its rapid set time vs that drippy, saggy epoxy.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Formation Flying--Question |
Did all the pilots who flew in formation at Oshkosh last year for Van's
tribute have a formation flying card? Or did they not need it because they
weren't part of the airshow program or what? Just wondering...... Al
>
>Reguarding the formation "cards" or "patches" the FAA does'nt requre
>them but you will need it to do airshow flyby's in formation or to join
>the "Mass gaggles" at certain air expos.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Warfield <kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Capacitance Fuel Senders |
Lister's,
Has anyone installed the MicroFlight capacitance fuel system? They
offer several types of probes. My questions include:
1. Which probe to buy. Order desk at Aircraft Spruce is not very
knowledgeable. For RV-6's, should I buy the 24" bendable probe?
2. Should the probe be mounted from the bottom of the tank, with the
probe pointing toward the top, or mounted top, pointing down.
Also, include:
Builder experiences ie installation problems, overall accuracy of the
system., things to watch out for, if I had to do it again, I
would........
Reply off list if you like, and thanks for the help.
Keith Warfield RV-6A
kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net or kwarfield(at)syntellect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Formation Flying Book |
FLYING IN FORMATION by Frank Hampson
A very comlete guide on formation technique based on military
standards but written specifically for civilian type aircraft. Lots of
photos, drawings, and diagrams. An exceptional training manual for a
flying skill which is widely unknown, a lot of fun, and certainly a
safety issue for those who frequently fly with others. 182 pages -
$29.50
This is the best formation book we've seen of the few that are out
there. We have them in stock now at RV-ation Bookstore.
RV-ation Bookstore
(970) 887-2207
(970) 887-2197 fax
PO Box 270 Tabernash, CO 80478
Or see and order from our web site at:
http://www.rvbookstore.com
Thanks,
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nose gear on rv's |
April 13, 1998 - April 23, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-eo