RV-Archive.digest.vol-ep

April 23, 1998 - May 01, 1998



      
      
      
      << Don't forget that there is an additional 50 lbs gross weight (allowance)
      for the 6A. >>
      
      That is because the 6A needs it, not because they're any stronger than their
      tail wheel siblings in the air.  IMO, the gear mounts may be a little more
      robust on the 6A vs the 6.  And remember, the builder establishes the
      published gross weight at time of certification.  My gross is 1900 lbs.
      
      -GV (RV-6A N1GV, 44 hrs and rising rapidly) Just back from 4 day Grand Canyon
      and Lake Powell flight.  You're gonna love this plane!
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: TPhilpin <TPhilpin(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick Build Qulity?????
Experienced Builders who attended Sun & Fun: Soliciting opinions on the quality of the RV-6 or 8 Qucik build workmanship. Would you consider it to be first time builders quality, factory quality or show quality????? Please elaborate.... Considering the option.... First Timer RV-8 Empenage Tony Philpin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Formation Flying
Doug, Thanks for the reply on formation flying. I had planned to respond myself in kind but you beeat me to it. To answer the guy looking for playmates in formation flight. Its okay to practice all that you want, just make sure that yu guys brief thouroughly beforehand. Remember, if you approach another aircraft in flight without prior briefing, youve technically just had a near miss and could be violated. BRIEF THE FLIGHT AND FLY THE BRIEFING!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS!!!! LKDaudt Formation Examiner "TRARON" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick Build Qulity?????
<< Soliciting opinions on the quality of the RV-6 or 8 Qucik build workmanship. Would you consider it to be first time builders quality, factory quality or show quality????? Please elaborate.... >> Without a doubt the QB kits are much better than "factory" standards. As far as show quality, that depends on the (final) builder. I would say this, the QB kits are the finest work I have ever seen on a RV. Lets face it, most of us are lucky to build one (or two :-) ) aircraft in a lifetime. Van's people across the pond are cranking-out two aircraft per week. They know rivets! Also keep in mind that they build in stations so that one person isn't responsible for an entire aircraft but only the one or two parts that they assemble. My next RV will be a QB! Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Rob Reece <reece(at)rt66.com>
Subject: Engine Mount/RV-3
This may be kind of trivial, but does anyone remember the "Flat Dyna Focal" engine mounts developed by Van's for the O-290G engines for the RV-3's? I have the original news letter (Number 3, I think) that describes it and shows a picture of the mount. Does ANYONE know of someone who has used this? It's got to be better than drilling out the case for the conical mounts, so the newsletter/Van's said in the description. Just trying to find out more on this mount, looks interesting. Rob Reece RV-3 SN45 EAA 535999 _________________________________________ Rob Reece InfoTech Manager, Scorpius Range Coordinator / Liaison Engineer Microcosm/InfoTech c/o EMRTC New Mexico Tech Mail Station Socorro, NM 87801 Phone: (505) 835-5716 Fax: (505) 835-5714/5680 Email: reece(at)rt66.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EAGLECLIFF <EAGLECLIFF(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
looking for a partner in the Denver area to share construction, expenses and use of an RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ACC PILOT <ACCPILOT(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: Re:
what side of Denver are you looking for .... I am north and west ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com>
Subject: I was wrong about bandsaws
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Back when I was a young RV builder (last year) I boldly asked if anybody could name an item that could be cut with a bandsaw that I couldn't cut with my norton disk in a pneumatic cut-off tool. I got no responses. This morning I realize that none of you replied because you wanted to finish your planes before me and didn't let on to the speed of bandsawing. Granted, my data point was a crappy Harbor Freight variable speed table top bandsaw that wasn't worth the cost of shipping. After starting the initial cut on the 2x2.5x.187 angle for the fuselage tank attach for 20 minutes (and not finishing), I left in disgust to pick up a horizontal/vertical bandsaw on sale at the local tool shop for $179 (Vulcan). My first cut through the aforementioned angle was a religious experience. Very quiet (the band turns fairly slow), didn't cover you in aluminum dust, straight as an arrow, nice clean cut. Even automatically turned itself off after completing the cut. In the vertical position, it has a shelf you can put on to cut like a normal upright bandsaw, but the whole band is offset so you can cut a 40' pipe in half if you wanted. I wish I had bought this baby two years ago. Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME San Jose, CA Wing attach work (tank support, fairing, etc.)... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick B
I believe some of these guys worked in the intermediate maintenance facility at Clark AFB back when we had a military. They went from pounding on F-4's & F-5's to RV's. I wonder if Van has an evacuation plan if Mt. Pinatubo blows again. Eric Henson >>>Also keep in mind that they build in stations so that one person isn't responsible for an entire aircraft but only the one or two parts that they assemble. My next RV will be a QB! Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: tedd <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Subject: Visiting SF/Mountain View Area
Date: Apr 23, 1998
I will be visiting the San Francisco area (Mountain View) next week. Are there any RV builders in the area whose projects I could visit? Reply to me off-list. Tedd McHenry tedd_mchenry(at)hp.com Surrey, BC [-6 tail] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Capacitance Fuel Senders
kpwarfield(at)worldnet.att.net wrote: > Has anyone installed the MicroFlight capacitance fuel system? They > offer several types of probes. I'm not familiar with the MicroFlight products. However, I do understand the general area, and will be receiving some capacitance probes soon. My questions include: > 1. Which probe to buy. Order desk at Aircraft Spruce is not very > knowledgeable. For RV-6's, should I buy the 24" bendable probe? The bendable probes I've heard of, they no longer meter fuel from the bend point. So bendable really isn't an advantage -- you might as well cut them down to fit. Look at your tank ribs in the level flight attitude... you could put a sender vertically (about 8" or so) or diagonally (18" max, I guess). Make sure the sender doesn't require its associated electronic module to be on the end of the probe or it'll be sticking out in the breeze on top of your wing! My Bunny's Guide page <http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny2c.htm> has a fair amount of information on capacitave senders that I've culled from the list and elsewhere. > 2. Should the probe be mounted from the bottom of the tank, with the > probe pointing toward the top, or mounted top, pointing down. Doesn't matter from the sender's point of view. You could even cut the sender in two and join the two halves with wire. You could have most of the sender in the inboard bay, and the rest out in the outboard bay -- that way, you'd be able to meter fuel all the way from empty to full. > Builder experiences ie installation problems, overall accuracy of the > system., things to watch out for, if I had to do it again, I > would........ Some of this is on my page too. Please forward any experiences you have to me for inclusion on the page. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: RV6 Weight and Balance
I'm trying to figure out whether I will need to go to the metal prop to get my baggage allowance up, and/or whether I will need to mount the battery on the front side of the firewall. I'm afraid I may be heading towards a rear CG/ low baggage limit situation. My RV6 is the slider version, will be fully primed and painted, and will have a VFR panel without gyros. I plan to install position lights and strobes. The engine is a wide deck O-320. I will have a basic interior...nice seats, and carpet on the floor. Anyone with a similar RV-6 please let me know what your weight / balance / loading envelope is, what prop you have, if you have a harmonic balancer, and details of your battery installation. By the way, I saw something really neat at Sun N' Fun in the Sun 100... The props on the Questair Ventures were leaving contrails as they accelerated down the runway for takeoff. Impressive.... Thanks, Kyle Boatright ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Price increases after ordering
I ordered an Electrnoics International (EI) volt/Ammeter from Van's. It is listed in the catalog and on Van's web site for $193. That was the price I was quoted when I telephoned Van's and placed my order. They shipped the meter two days later BUT did not bill me for $193, but INSTEAD billed me for $228.45! Be careful if you are not willing to accept a price increase AFTER you place an order; you can make your order CONDITIONAL so that it is only valid only IF the material is sent at the price quoted. BE CAREFUL!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Shelby.Smith(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: RV6 Weight and Balance
> >By the way, I saw something really neat at Sun N' Fun in the Sun 100... The >props on the Questair Ventures were leaving contrails as they accelerated down >the runway for takeoff. Impressive.... > >Thanks, > >Kyle Boatright > Kyle, I saw the same thing - Like a sock of condensation engulfing the airplane. I can't wait to see if my pictures come out. Shelby in Nasvhille. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Carl Angell <"cga-@primary.net"@primary.net>
Subject: LANDING LIGHTS
I'm about ready to close my wings and "DUH"!, can I install my landing lights with all the skins in place?? I've heard yes/no/maybe/I don"t know. Has anyone done this ? Thanks in advance Riveting away in St. Louiee RV6 N242GA (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Formation Flying--Question
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 23, 1998
> >Did all the pilots who flew in formation at Oshkosh last year for >Van's >tribute have a formation flying card? Or did they not need it because >they >weren't part of the airshow program or what? Just wondering...... Al > > Al, I don't know for sure that I am correct but I believe they did not. I know quite a few of the pilots and I don't believe any of them have waver cards. I think they were not required because the formation wasn't done during the "Air Show" program. It was just prior, and was treated the same as other pilots flying in the home built showcase etc. BTW all of the pilots chosen to fly were very experienced in RV's, and the whole thing was very much pre-practiced, pre-rehearsed, and pre-briefed. An exception may have been given by the FAA as a result (If the cards are now required all flight activities such as this now). Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Fiberglassing Clay
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 23, 1998
>A better product than modeling clay is used by the auto industry in >building clay models and is referred to as "mockup clay". It is >maintained at 105-110F. and when cooled to room temp can be tooled and >smoothed fairly well. Perhaps this is what Sam James was referring >to. >Unfortunately I cannot tell you where to get it. I know it is >manufactured by one of the clay companies in NE Ohio. Most design >schools would have it or at least know of it and anyone in auto body >design could advise. Mine came from the auto industry. I have also >used modeling clay for small parts with some success. The epoxy >doesn't >seem to mind for non structural applications. Mockup clay is best. >Gordon Comfort >N363GC > > > In the shop at Van's we have both types of clay. We prefer to use the cheap modeling clay with the oil in it (which does act as a release agent, but we haven't had any problems with it effecting the setup of polyester resin) The professional model builders clay is superior for getting a ice finish but it is quite hard and does need to be heated up to make it soft enough to mold. A couple of hints in using the cheap modeling clay - - It can also be stiff and hard depending on what temp. you are working in... to soften it up, put it in a microwave oven for short periods of time (keep checking it every 30 sec or so depending on the amount you are heating) until it is warmed up enough to be soft and pliable. - In working the clay to the final finish (since we most often are forming fairings with inside radius's) i like to use regular metal table spoons to scrape and smooth to the radius and finish that you want. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
<< I wish I had bought this baby two years ago. >> Never underestimate the power and success of using the correct tool for the job. For those of you who have not bought all the tools (you know who you are), you will really kick yourself when you do (and you will). When in doubt, buy, borrow or rent the correct tool. I hope I do not have to relearn this lesson again, It seems as though I have bought every tool know to man! However, for those of you who mined the bauxite and made the aluminum yourself and are building the entire airplane with a Swiss Army Knife, the above does not apply. Bob "I lost my Swiss Army Knife" Busick RV6 Fremont Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS
Carl Angell wrote: > <"cga-@primary.net"@primary.net> > > I'm about ready to close my wings and "DUH"!, can I install my landing > > lights with all the skins in place?? > I've heard yes/no/maybe/I don"t know. Has anyone done this ? > Carl, You can put in the Duck Works (Don Wentz's light) in after the wing is closed up with no problems. It is easier to make the cutouts with the leanding edge rivited in place. Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS
The Duckworks landing lights can be installed after the wings are closed, but it is much easier to do it before. These lights took me 1 day to install one, and 1/2 day to install the other. This was before closing the wing. I thought the instructions were kind of vague, and could be much improved. But the end results were excellent. Von Alexander RV-8 #544 Starting Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS
> > >can I install my landing L hts with all the skins in place?? >I've heard yes/no/maybe/I don"t know. Has anyone done this ? > > Carl, Yes, you can install the landing lights with the skins in place. It won't be as easy but the Duckworks kit says you can do it. I installed mine (1) before I riveted the leading edge to the spar and it was quite simple. Just a little tighter with the skins on. Bill Pagan -8A fuel tanks (ugh!) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
Mitch Faatz wrote: > > ... the speed of bandsawing. Granted, my data point was a crappy Harbor Freight variable speed table top bandsaw that wasn't worth the cost of shipping. > ....I left in disgust to pick up a horizontal/vertical bandsaw on sale at the local tool shop for $179 (Vulcan). > I wish I had bought this baby two years ago. > > Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME > San Jose, CA Wing attach work (tank support, fairing, etc.)... > > Mitch: Your posting was timely for me, as I did a little band saw shopping last week myself. The place I went only had one; a bench top Delta. This was a very nice tool, but nearly $1,000!! :( They also had a very nice Jet drill press, but nearly $500. I checked the Granger catalogue and looked at the big Sears tool catalogue, and finally looked in the list archives. My computer ran out of memory and crashed, but there was some discussion of band saws and drill presses a number of years ago. The consensus was to use a slow cutting speed, and if possible use a variable speed motor. Does your Vulcan have variable speed? What other wisdom can some of the rest of you share on this subject? Sears has some nice looking table top drill presses for under $200. You can barely buy a good (Milwakee) tool for what they are charging for these. Does anyone have any experiences with this line? martin shorman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
Martin Shorman wrote: > > Mitch Faatz wrote: > > > > > ... the speed of bandsawing. Granted, my data point was a crappy Harbor Freight variable speed table top bandsaw that wasn't worth the cost of shipping. > > > ....I left in disgust to pick up a horizontal/vertical bandsaw on sale > at the local tool shop for $179 (Vulcan). > > I wish I had bought this baby two years ago. > > > > Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME > > San Jose, CA Wing attach work (tank support, fairing, etc.)... > > > > > Mitch: > > Your posting was timely for me, as I did a little band saw shopping last > week myself. The place I went only had one; a bench top Delta. This was > a very nice tool, but nearly $1,000!! :( > > They also had a very nice Jet drill press, but nearly $500. > > I checked the Granger catalogue and looked at the big Sears tool > catalogue, and finally looked in the list archives. My computer ran out > of memory and crashed, but there was some discussion of band saws and > drill presses a number of years ago. > > The consensus was to use a slow cutting speed, and if possible use a > variable speed motor. Does your Vulcan have variable speed? > > What other wisdom can some of the rest of you share on this subject? > > Sears has some nice looking table top drill presses for under $200. You > can barely buy a good (Milwakee) tool for what they are charging for > these. Does anyone have any experiences with this line? > > martin shorman > Martin, I have the bench model bandsaw from Sears and it has cut wood & metal ( except steel) for most of my RV-6. I would highly recomed it for your use. I also have a Sears table model drill press and found that it will do very well except for the heavy drilling in the gear legs. I have even used the flycutter for holes up to 3 inches. Both tools were under $200.00 CAN. I hope this helps. Have fun building. Doug Murray RV-6 - on the gear and finally have the 0-360 engine. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Visiting SF/Mountain View Area
tedd wrote: > > I will be visiting the San Francisco area (Mountain View) next > week. Are there any RV builders in the area whose projects I > could visit? Reply to me off-list. > > Tedd McHenry > tedd_mchenry(at)hp.com > Surrey, BC > [-6 tail] > Tedd: I live in Mountain View and would welcome a visit any time to talk about RV's. The only problem is that my Mountain View is in Alberta, Canada. I'm not sure, but I think that I have heard of you in relation the the Western RVator. True? I am building an RV-6 and have it on the gear and am working on the canopy. How is your project coming along? I hope that your trip to San Fran' is a good one. Doug Murray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)jps.net>
Subject: Proseal mix ratio
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Importance: Normal Sorry to ask this. I did check the archives and couldn't find anything. On my can of proseal (Thiokol MC-236 B-2) it has to mix ratios: 100:10 PBW / 100:7.6 PBV. What does this mean? Which ratio should I use? -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 #1054 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Johnnie989 <Johnnie989(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun?
<< # >> Sorry, I said in an earlier E-Mail that the Rv's were here. I am wrong, only Van's 2 RV8s are in Lakeland. Van said that there are no other flying RV8s flying to his knowledge but that some were getting close. Sorry for the mistake ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FATKORAT <FATKORAT(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 23, 1998
Subject: RE : ProSeal Mix Ratio
W is weight and V is volume. I mixed mine by weight using an RCBS reloading scale accurate to 1 / 7,000 of a pound. Find a friend who reloads. RB Gibbons #80067 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Proseal mix ratio
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote: >Sorry to ask this. I did check the archives and couldn't find anything. On >my can of proseal (Thiokol MC-236 B-2) it has to mix ratios: 100:10 PBW / >100:7.6 PBV. What does this mean? Which ratio should I use? It means... PBW = Parts by weight... mix in a 100:10 (or 10:1) ratio by weight. You have probably seen the balance type scales recommended by the composite guys and Tony Bingelis. Here's your chance to make and use a set.. OR PBV= Parts by volume... Mix in a 100:7.6 ratio by volume. In my experience, these products are not terribly sensitive to mixture ratios. You want to be in the ballpark, but accuracy to 2 or 3 decimal places... naah. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal mix ratio
>Sorry to ask this. I did check the archives and couldn't find anything. On >my can of proseal (Thiokol MC-236 B-2) it has to mix ratios: 100:10 PBW / >100:7.6 PBV. What does this mean? Which ratio should I use? >Scott VanArtsdalen >RV-4 #1054 PBW="parts by weight" or 100 parts to 10 parts a 10-1 ratio *BY WEIGHT* PBV="parts by volume" or 100 parts to 7.6 a 1000-76 ratio *BY VOLUME* I use a couple syringes from a drug store to meter by volume, (one "horse syringe" for the resin and one small one for the hardener), or if electricity is available (not out in the field...) a small digital scale measuring grams and a pocket calculator to figure the exact proportion when you want a glob "about that size" as you scoop it out of the can, and then need to calculate exactly how many grams (at 100-7.6 by weight) are needed to match the glob sitting on the scale. Be sure and mix slowly and completely. You don't want air whipped up in your Pro-Seal causing little voids later on... Oh yeah, the "eau de pro-seal" fragrance will wear off in two to three days. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick Build Qulity?????
><< Soliciting opinions on the quality of the RV-6 or 8 Quick build >workmanship. > Would you consider it to be first time builders quality, factory quality or > show quality????? Please elaborate.... >> > >Without a doubt the QB kits are much better than "factory" standards. As far >as show quality, that depends on the (final) builder. I would say this, the >QB kits are the finest work I have ever seen on a RV. Lets face it, most of >us are lucky to build one (or two :-) ) aircraft in a lifetime. Van's people >across the pond are cranking-out two aircraft per week. They know rivets! >Also keep in mind that they build in stations so that one person isn't >responsible for an entire aircraft but only the one or two parts that they >assemble. >My next RV will be a QB! >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC - NJ Agreed, the workmanship was very nice. It was easily above the "first time" effort, and surpasses what I see in Cessna, Piper, Beech stuff all day long. It was probably not "Grand Champion" quality, though I didn't see any problems with the work, the GC stuff lately at S-N-F and OSH has gotten beyond extremely fine workmanship into the "art" category. I think anyone would be proud to own a quick build built by these experienced folks in the Phillipines. The -8 QB at S-N-F looked as if it could be polished out, the workmanship was so smooth. Besides, you still have to build the tail feathers, and will have *PLENTY* of chances to put a few dings in the skins yourself. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Proseal mix ratio
Scott, All the proseal I have used at work allways comes packaged in correct quantities so that when mixed the ratio is correct. You may not want to mix the entire amount but keep in mind the shelf life goes way down after opening. This is why the proseal that comes in a dispensing tube is popular. Hope this helps N273Sb rv4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Subject: RV Forums at S-N-F
Just in case you didn't make it to the RV Forums at Sun-N-Fun and you wanted to know what was discussed, you can access my notes from the forums. The sessions were mostly geared toward builders-to-be, but a few good questions snuck into the programs. The RV4/RV8 Forum: http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/4forum.html The RV6/6A Forum http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/6forum.html The Sun-N-Fun Scrapbook has been completed. You can start at page one: http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/scrapbok.html Sam Buchanan (time to get back to buildin') sbuc(at)traveller.com "The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Proseal mix ratio
When using a product for a specfic application such as fuel tank sealing one should use the correct mix ratio to insure the cured properties are established. Sure , improper mix ratios might look ok, feel ok, ect but you will not be assured the product will meet its design goals. Granted this sealant is not cheap, but why skimp on fuel tank sealant? Mix it all to get desired results. Rver273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Proseal mix ratio
> Sorry to ask this. I did check the archives and couldn't find anything. On > my can of proseal (Thiokol MC-236 B-2) it has to mix ratios: 100:10 PBW / > 100:7.6 PBV. What does this mean? Which ratio should I use? > PBW = Parts by Weight (i.e.. 10 grams of white and 10 grams of black catalyst) PBV = Parts by Volume (i.e.. 100 Gallons on white and 7.6 Gallons of black catalyst) I used a triple beam gram scale, so the PBW was easier for me. Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22996 fitting wings this weekend. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com>
Subject: I was wrong about bandsaws
Date: Apr 23, 1998
>The consensus was to use a slow cutting speed, and if possible use a > >variable speed motor. Does your Vulcan have variable speed? > > It is variable speed like a drill press (change the belts), all pretty > slow since it's made for metal cutting. > > >Sears has some nice looking table top drill presses for under $200. > You > >can barely buy a good (Milwakee) tool for what they are charging for > >these. Does anyone have any experiences with this line? > > Enco has decent line of drill presses - I got a nice floor-standing > model for about $260. It was so heavy I had to open the box in the > back of my truck and assemble piece by piece in the front of the > garage! It didn't look so heavy when the fork lift set it in the back > of my truck... > > I probably would have gotten the horizontal/vertical metal cutting > band saw at Enco too but they were out of stock. > > > Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved) > RV-6AQME Tank support brackets... > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 23, 1998
From: Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net>
Subject: Re: Proseal mix ratio
>my can of proseal (Thiokol MC-236 B-2) it has to mix ratios: 100:10 PBW / >100:7.6 PBV. What does this mean? Which ratio should I use? Either. They are the mix ratios by weight or volume. I found 100:10 by weight (10:1 for us non-engineers) to be the easiest. That is, ten times as much of the nasty white stuff as the nice smooth black stuff by weight. It will be medium grey when you're done. The simple balance beam scale mentioned in Van's plans works great. I'm not sure the ratios are that critical - I've had good luck just going for battleship gray for odd jobs as an adhesive/sealer. Light gray takes longer to harden. Not to worry doom-and-gloomers, I was as retentive as the next guy with the mix used to seal my tanks. - Mike hartmann(at)sound.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: David and Melissa Hamilton <hamlton(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick Build Qulity?????
> >Experienced Builders who attended Sun & Fun: > >Soliciting opinions on the quality of the RV-6 or 8 Qucik build workmanship. >Would you consider it to be first time builders quality, factory quality or >show quality????? Please elaborate.... Considering the option.... > >First Timer RV-8 Empenage >Tony Philpin > > > Tony, I spent most of last Saturday helping Bill and Scott from Van's set up the display at Sun N fun. We unpacked and set up the QB rv-8. The workmanship was very good. I have some rivets better on my 8 and some worse. I looked really hard and if the qb was available when I started I would have ordered one. It comes down to the $$$$. with a new IO360 going for $28,000 I can't afford the qb anyway. The qb is very well done Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
Not exactly a disagreement (though I have never kicked myself for not buying a bandsaw), but I'd like to share a couple of stories. When I first got into model gliders, the common lo-tech materials were balsa and lite ply. I was asked by the South Bay Soaring Society (SF Area, CA) to build a model at a convention to be given away in a raffle. I was to construct it during the convention. I showed up with an X-acto #1, razor saw, pin vise and drills, and lots of sandpaper. The plane was completed in two days (23 hours) and was highly praised for workmanship. However, at home I use a lot of power tools for building my models, because it's easier. However, you can always find an easier way. When I cut the vertical stab spar doubler for my RV, I used a hacksaw and cleaned up with a vixen file. When the wing arrived, I decided I did not want to taper the flange strips that way (I had visions of a grossly enlarged right bicep by the time I was finished ). So I took them to work to use the bandsaw there. At lunchtime I asked my boss, the Director of Maintenance, for permission to use the bandsaw, and proceeded to cut each and every strip. I was down to the last few when the mechanics started returning. One of the sheet metal guys watched and then said, "If I had known what you were going to do, we could have run those through the shear and you'd have been done in ten minutes." Sigh. No, I'm not going to buy a shear, but I'm going to remember to consult with the mechanics next time I need help with a part. Anyway, my two points: 1) you can do quality work with basic tools, but it may be more work and 2) you don't need to own all the expensive tools if you can find a way to borrow or get the use of them. PatK - RV-6A RBusick505 wrote: > > Never underestimate the power and success of using the correct tool for the > job. For those of you who have not bought all the tools (you know who you > are), you will really kick yourself when you do (and you will). When in > doubt, buy, borrow or rent the correct tool. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Alternative electric trim kits
> >For those of you that have been asking me about my alternative electric >elevator trim tab kits, which incorporates the MAC servo, I now have a >flyer with a photo showing the installation. If you would like to >receive one of these flyers as well as the flyers on my other products, >please contact me with your postal mail address. My list of products is >growing and now includes this new electric trim tab kit, pitot tube >mounting bracket kits, pitot tubes (two styles), and the ToolKey. The >ToolKey is a polished stainless steel keyfob tool for opening fuel caps >and has your RV model number in the head. > >I look forward to introducing you to my RV aircraft parts. > > Warren, Please send me the flyer with photo. I am moving on to my wings, and will hold off on finishing my elevator until I can study an RV-8 rear fuselage and make a decision on the trim. Kevin Horton khorton(at)cyberus.ca 6730 Parkway Rd. Greely, ON K4P 1E3 Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbldr3170 <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
<< Your posting was timely for me, as I did a little band saw shopping last week myself. The place I went only had one; a bench top Delta. This was a very nice tool, but nearly $1,000!! :( >> For what it's worth, Enco manufacturing from Chicago sells a decent bandsaw, that cost $165.00 when I bought mine (2 yrs. ago), and some decent other stuff for cheap. You have to watch what you buy from them, because some of their stuff is not built for the long haul, but their prices are good. If you have an Enco near you it is worth the trip to check them out. I also bought my drill press from them (13" $180.00) and a die grinder, files, etc. Their prices on abrasives (files, grinding wheels, burrs, flap wheels, etc.) can't be beat here in the Cleveland Ohio area. Regards, Merle (Not a machinist but likes good tools) Miller ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Twin Cities Rv Forum
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Fellow Listers: One last reminder for the 4th Annual Twin Cities RV Forum. Date: Sat May, 1988. Location: Red Wing, MN. Speakers, forums, workshop, lots of door prizes, RVs on display plus John Morgan and the RV-8A. See the attached text file for details. Questions, call or email me or Jim Lenzmeier at 612-633-8488. Doug Weile4r, pres, MN Wing ******************************************* Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com name="Forum Info.txt" filename="Forum Info.txt" 4th Annual Twin Cities Rv Forum Sat. May 2, 1998 Red Wing, MN (RGK) The Twin Cities RV Forum is scheduled for Sat May 2, at the Red Wing, MN Airport (40 miles SE of MSP). Times are 0800 to 1700. An approximate schedule is: 0800-0845 Registration, coffee, juice, donuts 0845-0900 Intro and Welcome 0900-1200 Speakers 1200-1300 Lunch 1300-1500 Speakers 1500-1700 Van's Aircraft, John Morgan Speakers: Paul Irbeck (professional RV builder) - corrosion control for the RV Bob Nuckolls (pres. AeroElectric Connection) - RV electrical systems Paul McReynolds (15 RVs built) - Rigging your RV Paul Peterson (professional engineer) - engine operation Mitch Robbins (former NTSB investigator and now NWA flight safety mgr) - RV safety issues Breakout sessions: DJ Lauritsen - RV upholstery and interior design Scott Smith - RV insurance program Afternoon guest speaker: John Morgan, technical support, Van's Aircraft. John will update us on the latest developments at Van's. He is planning to bring either the #2 RV-8 or the prototype RV-8A (tri-gear). During the day we will have door prize giveaways each hour, a People's Choice competion for best RV, a workshop centered around the construction of an RV-6 vertical stab (to be given away as our Grand Prize). Product information will be on display, a mini-fly market will be available for those who want to sell items, a bulletin board for want ad postings. As many RVs will be inside as possible with the remainder on the ramp. Of course fly-ins of any kind will be more than welcome. The evening banquet will begin at 7:00pm. Nice location at the St. James Hotel which is an elegantly restored turn-of-the-century establishment. Guest speaker is Bryan Moon, aviation explorer, historian, and artist. One of his prints will be given away as a door prize. Red Wing is a beautiful Mississippi river town with lots of restaurants, B&Bs, art galleries, antique and pottery shops. The airport is 3 miles from town. We have 10 rooms reserved at the St. James for those wanting to make a real weekend of it. Rooms are very, nice and available until April 10th. $115 per night (call 1-800-252-1875 and ask for RV Forum reservations). Other accommodations in town include: AmericInn Motel 1819 Old Main 800-634-3444 $73.90 / double Days Inn Hwys 61 & 63 800-325-2525 $53.99 / single, $70.99 / double Candlelight Inn B&B 818 w. 3rd St. 612-388-8034 Golden Lantern B&B 721 East Ave. 612-388-3315 $89 - 125 includes breakfast Parkway Motel 3425 Hwy 61 N 800-762-0934 $33 - 51 (1 to 4 people) Pratt Taber Inn B&B 706 W. 4th St. 612-388-5945 $89 - 110 (includes breakfast) Red Carpet Inn 232 Withers Harbor Dr. 612-388-1502 Treasure Island Casino 800-222-7077 Super 8 Motel Hwy 61 & Withers Hbr 612-388-0491 $57 - 69 Sterling Motel 612-388-3568 Rodeway Inn Hwy 61 & Withers Hbr 800-228-2000 $57 - 67 Cost: Forum fee (includes breakfast and lunch): $20 for the first family member $5 for each additional family member $5 for RV fly-in pilots Vendor fee: $20 table rental plus above admission achedule. =09 Banquet: $25/per person. For fly-ins we will provide transportation to and from your hotel. Also information on the forum is avilable at the MN Wing Website: http://www.showpage.org/rv-grp Below is a registration form. If you think you can attend, please consider mailing this ahead of time. It will help us in our planning. Thanks, Doug Weiler, pres, MN Wing 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com *********************************************************** Pre- Registration - 4th Annual Twin Cities RV Builder's Forum Saturday, May 2, 1998, 8am to 5pm Please print: Name: _____________________________________________________ Address: __________________________________________________ City, State, Zip: __________________________________________ Phone: ______________________________ Forum admission (includes coffee, donuts, lunch and beverage): =09 $20 first family member $ 5 each additional family member (adult or child) $ 5 per person for fly-in RV pilots and passengers Forum attendees: 1st family member: _________ Additional family members: ________ Yes, I plan to fly my RV and would like to display it. _________ (RV-3,4,6,6A) Send me a tourist packet on the Red Wing area __________ Evening banquet reservations (6pm cash bar, dinner 7pm):=09 $25 each includes entree, salad, potato, beverage, and dessert. Please indicate number of each menu choice: ______ Old World Pork seasoned and topped with five pepper glaze ______ Breast of Chicken Supreme Vegetarian or special needs menu items also available. Please advise. Please mail to (prepayment is not required, but would be nice): Jim Lenzmeier 65 15th Ave SW New Brighton, MN 55112 (612-633-8488) email: jndlenzmeier(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: RV6 Weight and Balance
Date: Apr 24, 1998
> Anyone with a similar RV-6 please let me know what your weight / balance / > loading envelope is, what prop you have, if you have a harmonic balancer, and > details of your battery installation. (lots snipped) My 6 is very much like yours, came out at 977 lbs, wood prop, no balancer, swivel tail wheel. Datum from tip of spinner and rechecked using wing leading edge. Did my climb test last night at full gross 1600 lb., 228# fuel, two people bigger size, 65 pounds of cat litter, piece of railway track and a few litres of oil in baggage. Sea level take off at 13 degrees C., 3013 atmos. pressure, established climb at 500 ft and reached 3300 ft after 3 minutes. My climbout was at between 90 and 100 mph indicated. I say between because I am not that good a pilot that I keep everything constant. Oil temp never even got hot. Landing at full gross was acceptable but not text book. No crash equipment called out,... gear still attached. ..Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EAGLECLIFF <EAGLECLIFF(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re:
I am in Aspen Park on US 285. Where are you exactly ? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Bandsaws
Home Depot is having a sale on the Free Standing Delta Band Saw, sorry didn't see what size it was but it's more than you would need for an RV. Price is $289.00, can't beat that. Eric >> The place I went only had one; a bench top Delta. This was a very nice tool, but nearly $1,000!! :( ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
Sears Benchtop 10" reach, 1/4" blade bandsaw, under $200. Does plenty good for me. I don't own a drillpress, but I have access to one. So far I've only used it to cut lightening holes. Moe Colontonio RV-8 Left Elevator http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe Martin Shorman wrote: > > Mitch Faatz wrote: > > > > > ... the speed of bandsawing. Granted, my data point was a crappy Harbor Freight variable speed table top bandsaw that wasn't worth the cost of shipping. > > > ....I left in disgust to pick up a horizontal/vertical bandsaw on sale > at the local tool shop for $179 (Vulcan). > > I wish I had bought this baby two years ago. > > > > Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME > > San Jose, CA Wing attach work (tank support, fairing, etc.)... > > > > > Mitch: > > Your posting was timely for me, as I did a little band saw shopping last > week myself. The place I went only had one; a bench top Delta. This was > a very nice tool, but nearly $1,000!! :( > > They also had a very nice Jet drill press, but nearly $500. > > I checked the Granger catalogue and looked at the big Sears tool > catalogue, and finally looked in the list archives. My computer ran out > of memory and crashed, but there was some discussion of band saws and > drill presses a number of years ago. > > The consensus was to use a slow cutting speed, and if possible use a > variable speed motor. Does your Vulcan have variable speed? > > What other wisdom can some of the rest of you share on this subject? > > Sears has some nice looking table top drill presses for under $200. You > can barely buy a good (Milwakee) tool for what they are charging for > these. Does anyone have any experiences with this line? > > martin shorman > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Don Hyde <hyde(at)bcl.net>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
SNIP > >What other wisdom can some of the rest of you share on this subject? > >Sears has some nice looking table top drill presses for under $200. You >can barely buy a good (Milwakee) tool for what they are charging for >these. Does anyone have any experiences with this line? > I have a cheap made-in-China drill press and horiz/vertical bandsaw that I bought at one of the big home-improvement stores (Home Depot or some such) for just over a hundred dollars apiece nearly ten years ago. They aren't nearly as well finished or as fancy as the expensive ones, but they do the job. My drill press has only 10 speeds and especially for a flycutter, I wish it would run slower, and the belt guards on both are really flimsy, but that doesn't prevent them from being lightyears above a hacksaw and handheld drill. I've looked at the ones in Sears, and they're nicer than the ones I have. (Some of them say Made in China.) So, in my experience, it's OK to save some money on these particular tools if that's what you need to do to have them. In my experience, Chinese hand tools and especially drill bits are made of bubblegum or something, but the machinery works OK. My cheap ones will probably be nearly half used up and worn out by the time I kick off rather than being good for another 10 generations of builders, but I'm not worried about that. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4 <RV4(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: RV8 or RV8A...???
I read a post this morning from someone who said it's no big deal to change from an 8 to an 8A as long as the fuselage isn't ordered yet....does anyone know exactly what's involved as far as modifying the wings ? I'm getting ready to order my fuselage...& I really love the look of the 8A Jim Wendel RV4 N43RV....1000hrs. RV8 80505.....Fuel Tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: bandsaw, drillpress
Band saw: An inexpensive bench-top band saw for woodworking works great on aluminum, at least in RV thicknesses. I bought a Pro-Tech 9" for $120.00; the 6 TPI blade that came with it is fine but I may try a finer pitch blade (sold for metal cutting) one day. Will not cut steel; blade speed too fast and machine too weak. Enco's floor-standing 14" "most popular model" is terrible. Drill press must turn 300 RPM or less for a fly cutter (lightening holes). This means two-stage speed reduction which I have not seen on table-top ones. Enco 16" floor-standing drill press is OK. John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A 25088, elevator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: am I done yet
I have a question for any builder who has completed an RV. What would be a reasonable percentage of completeness when the airframe is complete to the point where the engine is hanging with all cowl work done and tip up canopy complete. No other engine work other than four bolts to the mount. During construction I told people that when I was at that point I was 50% finished. When I look back at it now I would guess that it was anywhere from 65% to 75%. I would like a few other opinions as I am trying to determine the value of a project that is at the point mentioned above. Of course the level of completion is determined by how far you want to go in panel goodies and interior appointments. For the sake of argument, lets say upholstered seats and simple VFR panel. Terry Jantzi RV-6 C-GZRV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbldr3170 <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
<< Your posting was timely for me, as I did a little band saw shopping last week myself. The place I went only had one; a bench top Delta. This was a very nice tool, but nearly $1,000!! :( >> For what it's worth, Enco manufacturing from Chicago sells a decent bandsaw, that cost $165.00 when I bought mine (2 yrs. ago), and some decent other stuff for cheap. You have to watch what you buy from them, because some of their stuff is not built for the long haul, but their prices are good. If you have an Enco near you it is worth the trip to check them out. I also bought my drill press from them (13" $180.00) and a die grinder, files, etc. Their prices on abrasives (files, grinding wheels, burrs, flap wheels, etc.) can't be beat here in the Cleveland Ohio area. Regards, Merle (Not a machinist but likes good tools) Miller ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RV-8 Quick Build Quality
> >Soliciting opinions on the quality of the RV8 Qucik build workmanship. > ...I looked > really hard and if the qb was available when I started I would have ordered > one. It comes down to the $$$$. with a new IO360 going for $28,000 I can't > afford the qb anyway. What about getting a new 0-360 for $19,000 for the RV8? I think I read that it's slightly faster than the RV4 with the same engine. -- Bob Reiff Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.execpc.com/reiff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Twin Cities Rv Forum
Doug, Pleeze verify, location and time for those of us who have forgotten.Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: "C. VonHoven" <vonhoven(at)usa.net>
Subject: Where to find used engines
--------------93AF65D2F7A970E5A34B82E7 I am new to list and looking to find a used 360. If anyone has any leads or names of reputable sources I would appreciate the information. I would also like to get in touch with builders in Atlanta. If you live near Atlanta please send me mail off the list. Thank you, Chad VonHoven --------------93AF65D2F7A970E5A34B82E7 begin: vcard fn: Charles P. VonHoven n: VonHoven;Charles P. org: SSC Industries email;internet: vonhoven(at)usa.net title: Plant Process Development Engineer/QA Manager version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------93AF65D2F7A970E5A34B82E7-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
Howdy: I too have a 10" bandsaw (Delta) with a 14 tooth/inch metal cuting blade. As it is a single speed, it is just a *little* noisy, but not much. Does a great job for me so far. I also have a little Sears 8" table top drill press that has 3 speeds to it. Low end is around 600rpm if I recall correctly. I just used it to cut out my *optional* lightening hole in my favorite part....R410....with no problems. Again, so far it too has served me well. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A ser. no. 25171 Elevators Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net>
Subject: Re: Twin Cities Rv Forum
SatDoug Weiler wrote: > > > Fellow Listers: > > One last reminder for the 4th Annual Twin Cities RV Forum. Date: Sat May, > 1988. Location: Red Wing, MN. > > Sat., May what 19"88" ???I know RV's appear to go faster than light, hence the possibility of time travel, but I don't think I really want to relive the 80's :) See you there...May 2nd 1998 I believe it is! Scott (near La Crosse) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Re: am I done yet
Terrance Jantzi wrote: > > > I have a question for any builder who has completed an RV. What would be > a reasonable percentage of completeness when the airframe is complete to > the point where the engine is hanging with all cowl work done and tip up > canopy complete. No other engine work other than four bolts to the > mount. > > During construction I told people that when I was at that point I was > 50% finished. When I look back at it now I would guess that it was > anywhere from 65% to 75%. > > I would like a few other opinions as I am trying to determine the value > of a project that is at the point mentioned above. Of course the level > of completion is determined by how far you want to go in panel goodies > and interior appointments. For the sake of argument, lets say > upholstered seats and simple VFR panel. > > Terry Jantzi > RV-6 C-GZRV > Paint and paint preparation, ignition, sensors, oil temp, oil press, manifold pressure, oil cooler, gascolator, master & starter relays, starter wiring, battery wiring, oil separator installation and piping, magneto timing, spark plug gap setting/torquing, prop spinner installation, prop tracking, prop bolt torque setting, gear leg fairing, make fairings for fuselage to gear leg, gear leg to wheel pants, make/install mounts for wheel pants, antenna installations, radios, tachometer, VSI, petote system, upholstry, transponder/mode C (if applicable) installation, etc, etc. Believe me, you have a lot of work left and its the kind that doesn't show; you work for days and the machine still looks the same outside. Also the entire instrument panel needs to be planned and made. You have finished the fun part, now comes the piddly but necessary work! Also, the wing tips and vertical stabilizer fairings can really slow you down if they don't fit, which they probably won't. Good luck, and have fun!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS
<< I'm about ready to close my wings and "DUH"!, can I install my landing > lights with all the skins in place?? > I've heard yes/no/maybe/I don"t know. Has anyone done this ? >> I just finished installing the DW Landing Lights after my leading edge was in place. It was no problem. The first one took the better part of a day, but the second one went in about half the time. Be carefull in making your cuts & turns with the Jig Saw don't over strees the skin or you can end up with a stress crack in the skin. BSivori(at)AOL.COM N929RV ( Reserved ) Mounting Flaps ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: am I done yet
---Terrance Jantzi wrote: > > > I have a question for any builder who has completed an RV. What would be > a reasonable percentage of completeness when the airframe is complete to > the point where the engine is hanging with all cowl work done and tip up > canopy complete. No other engine work other than four bolts to the > mount. ---------- snip ---------- Assuming that the wings and controls are rigged. 45% complete. This number was first given to me from Kent "Rocky" Rockwell 8.5 years ago. He has a 1987 (correct me if I am wrong Jim [aka: Least Drag]) OSH best all metal RV-3. == Gary A. Sobek RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Bud Newhall <bud(at)softcom.net>
Subject: RV RENDEZVOUS
RV RENDEZVOUS May 17, 1998 Westover Field O7 Contact: Chris McKeage (209) 267-5090 13477 Buckeye Ct. Sutter Creek, CA 95685 Events: 20 Hot air balloons, Sat. and Sun. Airport Appreciation Day May 16 Camping available on field Bathrooms and Showers Shuttles to Sutter Creek Lunch available on field Lots of Flying Performance demos Formation Flying Maybe some aerobatics Plan to be here! Other Planes also welcome *Airport closed mornings 7:00 - 9:00 for balloon lift off. The RV gathering is Sunday. The Airport Appreciation Day is Saturday. Site approximately 40 miles SE of Sacramento near Jackson, CA __|__ __|__ ____(+)____ ____(+)____ ' ' ' ' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: RV8 VS RV4 Speeds
<< What about getting a new 0-360 for $19,000 for the RV8? I think I read that it's slightly faster than the RV4 with the same engine. >> I too have read the same comment as above. Can someone knowlegable comment on how the RV-8 (bigger, heaver and more flat plate drag) can be faster than an RV4. Assuming all things to be as equal as possible, both with the same type of wheel pants, gear fairings, same HP engines etc. Thanks Bob Busick RV-6 Fremont Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Welding
Listers Anybody know where, or who could do the welding modification on my Flap weldment? I want to convert to electric flaps, but I'm having trouble finding a competent welder. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bjnash(at)connectnet.com (BJ Nash)
Subject: Phenolic Resin + Carbon Fiber=Fireproof Material
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Anyone with experience in this? I have just seen a demo of a fireproof material made this way. This could be the answer to fireproof plastic airplanes... or fireproof cowling parts, etc ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)connectnet.com Web Site: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: RV8 VS RV4 Speeds
RBusick505 wrote: > > > > << What about getting a new 0-360 for $19,000 for the RV8? I think I read > that it's slightly faster than the RV4 with the same engine. > >> > > I too have read the same comment as above. Can someone knowlegable comment > on how the RV-8 (bigger, heaver and more flat plate drag) can be faster than > an RV4. Assuming all things to be as equal as possible, both with the same > type of wheel pants, gear fairings, same HP engines etc. > > Thanks > > Bob Busick > RV-6 > Fremont Ca I think that the problem is all things are not equal. The RV-8 comes standard with all the aerodynamic improvements that have been made since the RV-4. Pressure recovery wheel pants, improved cowl design, etc. I think that all things really equal, the -4 would have to be faster. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Alternative electric trim kits
Hi Warren, I look forward to seeing your catalog of RV stuff. I hope to have my 6 flying by the end of summer 1999. Bob Fritz 2041 Vista Del Mar San Mateo, CA 94404-2417 yet....does anyone know exactly what's involved as far as modifying the wings ? >> Jim, I read that post also. Maybe the author knows something the rest of us don't. All my RV-8 documentation says the wing spars for the -8A are different than for the -8. And that you need to decide before you buy the wings. Perhaps Van's can confirm what their literature already says. Rick McBride RV-8 80027 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
Hi Mitch, A vulcan band saw? Where'd you get it? I gotta go buy one and it sounds like you found a winner. I'm in San Mateo so the getting's easy. Last time we spoke I had the tail done....the QB 6 kit is due in the next couple of weeks. got the house projects finished so come on!!! Bob Fritz 650-573-5258 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICKRV6 <RICKRV6(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: am I done yet
<< I have a question for any builder who has completed an RV. What would be a reasonable percentage of completeness when the airframe is complete to the point where the engine is hanging with all cowl work done and tip up canopy complete. No other engine work other than four bolts to the mount. >> You made a good second guess. According to my building log I was at 1600 out of 2360 hours at that point which translates to 67.8%. Rick McBride RV-6 N523JC RV-8 80027 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: drillpresses. was: I was wrong about bandsaws
I bought a Sears drill press (10" 1/2 hp) and it's just fine...now. My only gripe is that the keyed chuck that came with it was way, way out of true; bits wobbled all over the place. Returned the chuck for a new one, no cost, and I'm a happy camper. Bob Fritz tail's done, 6QB due in a couple of weeks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Philip A Lehrke" <plehrke(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Interior Paint on RV-8A Prototype
Date: Apr 24, 1998
I have been looking at the pictures of the RV-8A on Van's homepage. Does anybody know what paint was used for the interior of the RV-8A prototype? Phil Lehrke RV-6A Working Upper Fuselage Skins ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
>Martin Shorman wrote: > > The consensus was to use a slow cutting speed, and if possible use a > variable speed motor. Does your Vulcan have variable speed? > > What other wisdom can some of the rest of you share on this subject? > > Sears has some nice looking table top drill presses for under $200. You > can barely buy a good (Milwakee) tool for what they are charging for > these. Does anyone have any experiences with this line? > > Martin, I have a Ryobi 10" table top drill press that cost around $150. So far it has met all my needs. I also use a Tradesman(Ace Hardware) 10" table top bandsaw(not a variable speed) with a Sears non-ferrous metal cutting blade to cut aluminum. It was around $140. Does a real good job. Unless you think that you need the high $$$$ equipment, buy good quality cheaper stuff and sink the savings into the RV! Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: am I done yet
<< Assuming that the wings and controls are rigged. 45% complete. This number was first given to me from Kent "Rocky" Rockwell 8.5 years ago. He has a 1987 (correct me if I am wrong Jim [aka: Least Drag]) OSH best all metal RV-3. >> Excellent, Gary. Rocky's RV-3 had damage to the paint on one side of the rudder from a tail wheel spring & chain which came loose on a landing. He still received an "Outstanding Workmanship" award at Oshkosh in 1986. Rocky's RV-3 was also selected to represent Van's Aircraft at the Dayton airshow entrance static display, but Rocky couldn't make the trip. I have flown with Rocky for about 200 hrs (formation flight). Recreation flying was redifined for me during this time. Rocky originally installed a new Lycoming IO-320 160 hp engine in his RV-3. The RV-3 has a custom "Porsche Red" and two tone gray paint scheme. Rocky has spent seven years building/restoring P-51's, and TF-51's. Naturally, Rocky's RV-3 N number is N51RV. Unfortunately, Rocky is going to offer his RV-3 for sale. He can be reached directly by Email at nmrno1(at)aol.com It seems his wife, and my wife, both feel that they need to be included in the fun. So far, it looks like RV-4's for both of us. Although I really cann't speak for Rocky. He may be leaning towards a RV-8, by now. Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: Runway Length
Robert Acker wrote: > > > In a couple of weeks I'll be making a road trip ..... > looking for some land to build a house and dirt/gravel/grass runway on > > ..... advice for/against > private airstrips and or airparks...drop me a private e-mail. > > Rob (RV-6Q). > > Rob: This might be an interesting topic for the rest of us. I have some land in Kansas that I hope to put a grass strip on someday. How long, how wide, how rough/ smooth, grade, what type of grass, how high should it be kept, FAA requirements, etc., etc. martin shorman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 24, 1998
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS
Using a Jig Saw to make the cut-outs for the Duckworks Landing Lights would seem to me like a very difficult way to do it. If you would try a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel in it, you will have outstanding, quick results, and with no danger of stress cracks. You also get a cutout that looks like it was done by a CNC machine! By far my most used tool. Von Alexander RV-8#544 Starting Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 24, 1998
From: "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Welding
Craig Hiers wrote: > Listers > Anybody know where, or who could do the welding modification on my > Flap weldment? I want to convert to electric flaps, but I'm having > trouble finding a competent welder. > > Craig Hiers > RV-4 N143CH Craig, I modified my weldment for my RV6 and unless you really want to do it you would be better off sending your weldment back to Vans in exchange for a new one.(IMHO) The process is a little more involved than you might suspect. And if you are going to pay someone else to do the welding, I'm not sure that it will be any cheaper. Good Luck, Mike Denman Pay attention to the details, sweat the small shit! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Interior Paint on RV-8A Prototype
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 24, 1998
>I have been looking at the pictures of the RV-8A on Van's homepage. >Does >anybody know what paint was used for the interior of the RV-8A >prototype? > >Phil Lehrke >RV-6A >Working Upper Fuselage Skins > > > > > It is PPG Durethane, I believe the color is just called "light gray". BTW the interior paint job is not something we are particularly proud of, because of schedule completion constraints it ended up being painted in not the best of conditions. Hey... at least it got painted! Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV8 or RV8A...???
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 24, 1998
does anyone know exactly what's involved as far as modifying >the wings ? >I'm getting ready to order my fuselage...& I really love the look of >the 8A > >Jim Wendel >RV4 N43RV....1000hrs. >RV8 80505.....Fuel Tanks > > > Jim the RV-8 and RV-8A wings are identical. The difference is in the center section. There are a few 3/16 rivets that are deleted to allow for the installation of bolts for the landing gear later. What some builders have been doing if they are un sure is order the 8A wing kit, if they change their mind they just need to drive a few 3/16 rivets or put AN3 bolts in the holes instead at a weight penalty of a few ounces. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV8 VS RV4 Speeds
<3541341D.3714FC6E(at)bellatlantic.net>
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 24, 1998
>I think that the problem is all things are not equal. The RV-8 comes >standard with all the aerodynamic improvements that have been made >since >the RV-4. Pressure recovery wheel pants, improved cowl design, etc. I >think that all things really equal, the -4 would have to be faster. > >-- >Moe Colontonio - Moe is exactly right. The RV-8 has the new pressure recovery wheel pants and something similar for the gear leg farings. If these were the same on an Identically powered and finished RV-4 and RV-8 the RV-4 would be faster. But we don't know how much because we haven't tried it. Just putting the P.R. wheel pants on an RV-4 is probably enough to turn the tables on the difference. All the builders that I know of (the all have fixed pitch props)that have switched from the old style to the new P.R. pants have gotten about a 6 mph speed increase. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick Build Qulity?????
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 24, 1998
>I spent most of last Saturday helping Bill and Scott from Van's set up >the >display at Sun N fun. - I think it was probably Steve and Bill that you helped, Scott is still here back in Oregon. - We unpacked and set up the QB rv-8. The >workmanship >was very good. I have some rivets better on my 8 and some worse. I >looked >really hard and if the qb was available when I started I would have >ordered >one. > >It comes down to the $$$$. with a new IO360 going for $28,000 I can't >afford the qb anyway. - I just want to take a moment to mention (because their is a lot of miss information out there in RV land... though I don't mean to imply that Dave is miss informed :) ). - All of us at Van's are pretty much in agreement that the RV-8(A) doesn't need an IO-360 for an engine. That the more ideal engine for most builders would be an O-360 w/constant speed prop. With the IO-360 you get 20 more HP, approx. a 50 higher empty weight (if you use the counter weighted model as in our prototype) and a $9000 higher price tag (at new prices). The airplanes perform great with the slightly smaller engines (our yellow RV-8 prototype has a 170 HP O-320 and it performs very well). Please don't pass on choosing a great airplane just because you cant afford to use the biggest engine that it is approved for. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MarkVN <MarkVN(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Welding
I give up,,, where are you located? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Subject: Re: am I done yet
>During construction I told people that when I was at that point I was >50% finished. When I look back at it now I would guess that it was >anywhere from 65% to 75%. Terry In my most recent project, the firewall aft was 70% of the project. 30% of my time was spent on hanging and hooking up the engine, doing the cowl and all electrical and panel work. Tom martin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV8 804 bulkhead spacer
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Greetings listers, The spacer to be made for the 804 fuselage/wing center section bulkhead...exactly how should it be sized? I plan to use a micrometer to measure the spar thickness, but should there be a few thousandths clearance added so that the wings can be slid into place without having to beat on anything? Also, the close tolerance wing bolts...no kidding! Those holes in the spar and bulkhead are just a wee bit TOO close, as it appears right now. I already scrubbed the cadmium plating back a little bit from one of the bolts, and that was just from using them to align the bulkhead sides before riveting, per instructions. Has anyone found a need to "micro-ream" the holes? And, if so..just how did you do it? Lubrication didn't help at all...it's so tight that the lube just gets scrubbed off. Thankyou, Brian Denk -8 #379 tanks and center section ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: lottmc(at)datastar.net (Michael C. Lott)
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick Build Qulity?????
Hi Scott, How did ya'll get the 0320 in the yellow prototype to put out 170 h.p.? Anything special, or just good tuning? Thanks. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: Twin Cities Rv Forum
> Doug, Pleeze verify, location and time for those of us who have > forgotten.Larry Saturday, May 2. Red Wing airport. Red Wing is about 30 miles southeast of St. Paul along the Mississippi river. Come any time during the day. We officially open the doors at 8 AM. See the web site for more info. http://www.showpage.org/rv-grp -Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Twin Cities Rv Forum
Dee and I are planning to attend this event. We're looking forward to meeting many of our friends known heretofore only as words on the screen. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: David Peck <dpeck(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Sport Aviation Database Update
Bob, Firstly thank you for all the valuable advice and experience that you share with the list, I always read your posts and find them well balanced and educational. You are welcome to my database to do with as you wish and it is attached as a zipped text and tabs file. Below is the only site that I know of that is hosting my other file, which you can have too if you like. regards Dave Peck about to start RV-6A empennage Perth, Western Australia Hi All, Dave Peck sent me a copy of his RV-6/6A parts cross-reference database. I've converted it to HTML (made it into an HTML table) and uploaded it to my Bunny's Guide Web site. It can be found at <http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/4809/rv_parts.htm> -- in the process it has grown form David's 39K text file to a whopping 95K. There's a link to it from <http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/4809/bunnytop.htm> Frank. Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Very good. Over the past several weeks, we've begun to solicit > articles and other data items of interest to builders for posting > at the AeroElectric Connection. If you think it would be an > appropriate addition to the kinds of things we're doing, I'd > be pleased to talk about adding it to our own archives. At the > very least, we'll put up a link to what ever site becomes > the resting place for the data. Keep us informed. > > Bob . . . > AeroElectric Connection > > //// > (o o) > ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== > < If you continue to do > > < What you've always done > > < You will continue to be > > < What you've always been. > > ================================= > <http://www.aeroelectric.com> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: some landing light options . . .
In my wandering through various stores I try to be alert to un-conventional opportunities to apply technology from other disiplines to airplanes. I have a couple of items to bring to the attention of my airplane building brothers: There's an automotive headlamp used on 96 Olds Cutlass cars that has a very low vertical profile. It's a halogen lamp totally contained inside a sealed refelector/lens assembly. It also features a real connector on the rear for attaching wires. You can take a peek at one of these lamps at: <http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.jpg> This is a 4352 high beam headlamp assembly. I believe it's a 55 watt unit but I've not chased down the engineering data sheets on it. I belive this lamp is an excellent candidate for leading edge installation on airplanes. It's rated life should be in excess of 300 hours. While low in watts, it's a modern automotive design suited to illuminating the path in front of 65 mph vehicles, I suspect it's suitable also for landing airplanes at that speed. If there's enough interest in this lamp, I could CAD up a bezel, mouting ring and backplate wiht 4-point adjuster screws for aiming. I've got access to an NC machine shop that would give us a pretty good rate on VERY precisly carved pieces of aluminum. Saw another interesting lamp. I think it's used in accent lighting in stores. They have a variety of tracklites that run on low voltage a.c. The EXH lamp can be seen at <http://www.aeroelectric.com/exh.jpg> This tiny spot light is also 50 watt. It's a halogen lamp and features a built in reflector. It may be useful on smaller airplanes with PM alternators. We've all seen cars on the highway with the new low temperature discharge lamps . . . the color temperature of these lamps is up around 4500K (blue white) and they feature about 3x the light for 2/3 the watts. You can see some info on these lamps at: http://www.sylvania.com/prodinfo/auto/arcspecs.htm Haven't put my hands on one of these yet but given their size and efficiency, they're attractive for aircraft applications too. Dee and I will be attending the RV gathering in Red Wing MN next weekend. Also, we have a weekend seminar coming up in Livermore, CA May 16-17. Come see us at either of these gatherings if you can. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: RE: RV-6A Gear Leg Mounts
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Listers, The gear mounts for my RV-6A do not fit the fuselage sides when flush against the wing spar. The advice I'm getting (from Van's) is that this is common. I am to heat the 'struts' that go forward to the fuselage from the spar and bend them to fit. I don't have a torch and don't know what I'm doing when I heat steel. Anybody out there in RV-land been here and successfully gone beyond this stage? I'm thinking that shimming the mount at the wing spar might bring the forward 'strut' into the right position. Steve Soule In the shop staring at the wing on the fuselage, the wings and gear on (temporarily) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Accessory case for 0320-E3D
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Listers, I'm looking for an accessory case with the pad drilled and tapped for a governor. I have an 0320-E3D engine. I'm not sure of the part no. I need, I think it is 76108. If anyone has converted an E3D before, I'd like to hear from you. I don't know what problems I'll incur, but this is what I plan to do. Thanks Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Tank Rear Baffle Assembly RV-8
I am finishing up my tanks, and have a question about the rear baffle. The manual talks about using wood with a kerf, or 1x2s with clamps to sqeeze out the excess sealant at the baffle to skin seam. If I understand correctly, it is also saying to let this cure before machine countersinking and riveting the skin to bafftle holes. Why can I not use clecoes to hold and sqeeze the baffle to the skin, then after the sealant cures, machine countersink and rivet? I think the clecoes would be removeable, since the sealant stays somewhat pliable for quite a while. I am assuming the reason I can't machine countersink before sealing the whole thing together is because the thickness of the sealant will throw the hole alignment off. Any ideas or techniques? Thanks Von Alexander RV-8 #544 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-8's @ Sun n Fun- Quick Build Qulity?????
<3541EE3F.5861AC95(at)datastar.net>
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 25, 1998
> >Hi Scott, >How did ya'll get the 0320 in the yellow prototype to put out 170 >h.p.? Anything special, or just good tuning? Thanks. Michael > > > > >The engine overhaul was done by Everet Hatch, he installed 9.0 to 1 "H" engine pistons, minimum end gap piston rings, cylinder port and sump induction port clean up. This work made the engine dyno at about 170 H.P. at standard rated RPM. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbeene <Kbeene(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Oil access door
What is a good size for the oil access door in top of the cowling? I can't find the outline that Van says is there. George O says he used 6.75 x 6 inches. This seems large. Is this size needed to access the hinge pins? Ken Beene Burnsville, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kbeene <Kbeene(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: RE: RV-6A Gear Leg Mounts
<< The gear mounts for my RV-6A do not fit the fuselage sides when flush against the wing spar. >> Steve, I don't know how much gap you have. I had a similar problem and shimmed between the fuse and the mount. One side needed a 1/8" and the other a 3/16" shim. This required getting extra length bolts - the ones with the countersunk head. I wouldn't recommend shimming at the spar as this would require quite a few extra length bolts through the spar and might force the gear mount into F-602. Bending the front leg of the mount sounds like a good idea to me but I would try this while it is in position. Ken Beene Burnsville, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry E.\"Bud\" Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)gate.net>
Subject: Re: airshow crash
Date: Apr 25, 1998
The crash was not at Lakeland It was a mid air crash between two of the Red Baron Flying team. The videos I saw at night looked as tho the right rear guy lost sight of a plane lower and to the right. He dropped down on him.. they stayed together to the ground. A very bad scene. ---------- > From: Robert Miller <rgmiller(at)acadiacom.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: airshow crash > Date: Sunday, April 19, 1998 5:24 PM > > > The local news reported a mid-air collission between two bi-planes at an > air show in Lakeland today. Any details? > > > > ht of the dedicated purpose floats. Does it sound feasible to > >use the existing floats with a circuit which would monitor the voltage across > >the fuel receiver units? This circuit would be an op-amp voltage comparator > >and maybe a driver transistor for the lamp. At maybe 4 gallons, whatever > >voltage that comes out to be, the comparator output would go to 12 Volts and > >light up the lamp. There would also be a lamp test pushbutton which would > put > >the bulbs across the 12 Volt bus for a momentary preflight check. There > would > >be one lamp for each side. The weight penalty would be that of a couple > >Integrated Circuits. > >Any ideas on this? > >Mark McGee > >RV4 Wings > > Have you driven an Acura or a Honda? Most have the exact circuit you > describe. When the tank gets low a warning light comes on with an icon of > a gas pump. > > The sender is a variable resistor, the circuit is contained in the > instrument panel, so I have never seen the guts of it, but have had the > tank out for a bad sender and can see that there is no "extra float" or > other mechanism to sense fuel level. > > Shouldn't be too hard for the electronic minded to whip up exactly what you > describe. > > Bob Steward, A&P IA > AA-1B N8978L > AA-5A N1976L > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Tank Rear Baffle Assembly RV-8
Date: Apr 25, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 1:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Tank Rear Baffle Assembly RV-8 > >I am finishing up my tanks, and have a question about the rear baffle. The >manual talks about using wood with a kerf, or 1x2s with clamps to sqeeze out >the excess sealant at the baffle to skin seam. If I understand correctly, it >is also saying to let this cure before machine countersinking and riveting the >skin to bafftle holes. Why can I not use clecoes to hold and sqeeze the baffle >to the skin, then after the sealant cures, machine countersink and rivet? I >think the clecoes would be removeable, since the sealant stays somewhat >pliable for quite a while. I am assuming the reason I can't machine >countersink before sealing the whole thing together is because the thickness >of the sealant will throw the hole alignment off. Any ideas or techniques? >Thanks >Von Alexander >RV-8 #544 > Hi Von, I am about at this step myself. I intend to use clecoes in every hole and the strips of wood between the clecoes. The intent seems to be to make the layer of sealant as thin as possible between the skin and the baffles. For your info, the directions have changed from the first version here. The procedure of waiting to rivet until the sealant has cured is new. One newsletter I saw mentioned that one builder used sealant and clecoes to assemble the ribs to the skin, waited until the sealant cured, and then riveted the ribs to the skin. Has anyone on the list tried this? It sounds like a good option, but I would like some more opinions on this one. Steve Johnson RV-8 #80121 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: Canopy sealant
What is appropriate for sealing between the external aluminum skirts and the plexiglas? Although one could probably get away with it, acrylic doesn't like the acetic acid given off by RTV silicone, and I'm looking for something less viscous than the sealing bead that is available for this from Aircraft Spruce. What have others used? Thanks, Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A slider ________________________________________________________________________________
From: F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Skinning Wings
Listers, I am in the process of mounting my wing ribs. It seems like a good idea to do as much of the work as possible on the bench before I put the wing in the jig. Have any of you drilled the main skins to the main spar flanges while on the bench? This would serve to keep the main spar from drooping in the jig and it would make it easy to hang the skins onto the skeleton alone. Of course I would not drill through any ribs until the skeleton is aligned in the jig. Only the holes along the spar flange would be drilled on the bench. Is this a good way to do it, or am I missing something? Mark McGee RV4 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: wac chart , sectional soft ware
Does any one out there know of any available software for printing sectionals or wac charts on a pc? Seems like I have seen it advertized somewhere. 273sb rv4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: RE: RV-6A Gear Leg Mounts
> The gear mounts for my RV-6A do not fit the fuselage sides when flush > against the wing spar. The advice I'm getting (from Van's) is that this > is common. I am to heat the 'struts' that go forward to the fuselage > from the spar and bend them to fit. I don't have a torch and don't know > what I'm doing when I heat steel. Steve, A dual cylinder propane/oxygen torch should be adequate for this type of heating, probably about $40. Single cylinder propane probably won't work. Follow the instructions for adjusting the mixture and heat a section about 1" long near the root until it is dull red all around. The torch will be about 2" away from the tube or so; the middle point of the torch can burn through the tube, so keep it away from the tube. I put mine in a vise for this. Try small bends at first, you may be surprised how easily it bends using the "red wrench". Trial fitting in the fuselage between iterations is dangerous, but it will probably only take a couple of iterations. Air cool the hot area only, don't quench in water. BTW, if you are building a slider, this will be good practice for the slider frame. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JDaniel343 <JDaniel343(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Problem: Buld a simple device to detect ice
You have a problem, you need to build a device to detect the prescence of ice crystals other than visually. The problem is to build a box as shown below: V Opening for Device What kind of device can would you construct to place in the opening that will detect ice? Please post any of your suggestions to the list or send them to Jdaniel343(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)ornaprod.com>
Subject: Re: Skinning Wings
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Mark: I am close to the same place as you are. I have the wings in the jigs and front leading edge skin on the right wing. The left one goes on tonite. While I can't say it will cause you any problems for sure, I would think the you would want to do it in the jig. Alignment on the spar flange is the easiest part. What requires some fiddling is making sure that you are in the middle of each rib once they are plumbed square. I had to jog the skin around a little bit and mess around for about 20 minutes to ensure it was a close fit. I am not sure how you would do this if you wing is not jigged and the ribs plumbed. I also am not sure how this is going to make the spar not sag. The wing will not "tighten up" until you drill and cleco the skin to the spar AND the ribs, making them a solid unit. Paul Riedlinger paulried(at)mindspring.com RV-CAM underconstruction at http://paulried.home.mindspring.com BTW, I found it just as easy to drill and mount the ribs in the spar while it was on the jig (a-la the Orndorff video) -----Original Message----- From: F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 5:59 PM Subject: RV-List: Skinning Wings > >Listers, > >I am in the process of mounting my wing ribs. It seems like a good idea to do >as much of the work as possible on the bench before I put the wing in the jig. > >Have any of you drilled the main skins to the main spar flanges while on the >bench? This would serve to keep the main spar from drooping in the jig and it >would make it easy to hang the skins onto the skeleton alone. Of course I >would not drill through any ribs until the skeleton is aligned in the jig. >Only the holes along the spar flange would be drilled on the bench. > >Is this a good way to do it, or am I missing something? > >Mark McGee >RV4 Wings > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
Subject: Re: RE: RV-6A Gear Leg Mounts
Stephen J. Soule wrote: > The gear mounts for my RV-6A do not fit the fuselage sides when flush > against the wing spar. The advice I'm getting (from Van's) is that this > is common. I am to heat the 'struts' that go forward to the fuselage > from the spar and bend them to fit. I don't have a torch and don't know > what I'm doing when I heat steel. Anybody out there in RV-land been > here and successfully gone beyond this stage? I'm thinking that > shimming the mount at the wing spar might bring the forward 'strut' into > the right position. Stephen, my mounts didn't meet the fuselage sides either. I made a 1/8 shim for one side and 1/4 shim for the other side. Am I in trouble further downstream? Hope there is more input. I don't relish the thought of "bending" that steel. Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX RV-6A fiberglass and systems ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Buld a simple device to detect ice
> >You have a problem, you need to build a device to detect the prescence of ice >crystals other than visually. >The problem is to build a box as shown below: One of the slickest ice detectors I've seen sticks a small rod (about 3/16" x 1.5") out into the slipstream where ice is likely to gather when it decides to start sticking. One end of the rod was excited with an ac signal at or near the resonant frequency of the rod (supersonic). When ice gathers on the rod, it's resonant frequency changes and is electronically detectable. 15 years ago this was a VERY expensive gizmo . . . today, I dunno . . . should be easier. Nice thing is that it's impervious to dirt, oil, and other thin films. I think bugs wouldn't bother it much either. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRoss10612 <JRoss10612(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: RV8 804 bulkhead spacer
Brain: Your wing spacer block should be made of dimensionally stable material, and yes, you might want to make it .005 - .010 larger (thicker) than the spar stub. If you have the aluminum material available for spacers, that will work best. If not, two pieces of plywood with a thin aluminum spacer added will do the trick. If you use wood, be cautious not to tighten the bolts too much or you will squeeze the wood to an undersize dimension. Van's uses scrap aluminum in the prototype shop for this reason. The 804C bulkheads have matching holes in them for the spar wing attach bolts. When these are riveted to the 804 assembly, you will often have a small amount of shifting. It is probably the holes in the 804C's mismatching the 804A & B that are creating the tight bolt/scrubbing action that you describe. Take a pin file and work off some material on the inside of these bolt holes through the 804C's and I'll bet your problem will go away. Phil Arter used a reamer he bought specially for this with excellent results. Hope this helps, Jon Ross 80094 - Landing gear boxes ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: some landing light options . . .
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Robert, Last year I researched this possibility and came up with something very similar; a Sylvania H4701. This is a 65W high beam (for a 4 headlight system). I got it at Pep Boys for under $10. The size of the light is 5 7/8 x 3 5/8. The mount is a simple rectangular structure made of .125 angle stock: The ends are made from one and a half by a half (1 1/2 x 1/2) angle, and the horrizontals (top and bottom) are 3/4 x 3/4 angle forming a rectangle 4 5/16 x 11 3/4 outside dimension. These are riveted together. The inside dimension (3 1/8") makes a snug fit for the sealed beam. The light is mounted a little off center to align with the hole in the leading edge. To hold the light in place, nutplates are placed on the back of the horrizontal braces, top and bottom. The location coincides with protrusions on the back of the light that aids alighment for auto applications. The hold-down is built from angle stock about 2 " long and modified to 1/2 x 3/16 and drilled (near the bend) for #8 bolt. The complete unit weighs 20.5 ounces. Although I haven't done it yet, I plan to put some sort of insullation between the sealed beam and the fixture so that when the screws are tightened down, there will be sort of a sponge compression and distribute the hold down load somewhat. If it is proven that more area is needed to distribute the support for the sealed beam, I can easily add some stock at the ends of the light between the horrizontals and put nutplates there too. The light is mounted between two ribs. Large holes and big washers allow for aiming. I'm not an engineer but since starting this project, I'm starting to feel like one. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 1:04 PM Subject: RV-List: some landing light options . . . > >There's an automotive headlamp used on 96 Olds Cutlass >cars that has a very low vertical profile. It's a >halogen lamp totally contained inside a sealed >refelector/lens assembly. It also features a real >connector on the rear for attaching wires. You can >take a peek at one of these lamps at: > > <http://www.aeroelectric.com/4352.jpg> > >This is a 4352 high beam headlamp assembly. I believe >it's a 55 watt unit but I've not chased down the engineering >data sheets on it. I belive this lamp is an excellent >candidate for leading edge installation on airplanes. It's >rated life should be in excess of 300 hours. While low >in watts, it's a modern automotive design suited to >illuminating the path in front of 65 mph vehicles, >I suspect it's suitable also for landing airplanes at >that speed. > >If there's enough interest in this lamp, I could CAD >up a bezel, mouting ring and backplate wiht 4-point >adjuster screws for aiming. I've got access to an NC >machine shop that would give us a pretty good rate on >VERY precisly carved pieces of aluminum. > >Saw another interesting lamp. I think it's used in accent >lighting in stores. They have a variety of tracklites >that run on low voltage a.c. The EXH lamp can be >seen at > > <http://www.aeroelectric.com/exh.jpg> > >This tiny spot light is also 50 watt. It's a halogen >lamp and features a built in reflector. It may be >useful on smaller airplanes with PM alternators. > > >We've all seen cars on the highway with the new low >temperature discharge lamps . . . the color temperature >of these lamps is up around 4500K (blue white) and they >feature about 3x the light for 2/3 the watts. You can >see some info on these lamps at: > >http://www.sylvania.com/prodinfo/auto/arcspecs.htm > >Haven't put my hands on one of these yet but given >their size and efficiency, they're attractive for aircraft >applications too. > >Dee and I will be attending the RV gathering in Red Wing >MN next weekend. Also, we have a weekend seminar coming >up in Livermore, CA May 16-17. Come see us at either >of these gatherings if you can. > > > Bob . . . > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= > < If you continue to do > > < What you've always done > > < You will continue to be > > < What you've always been. > > ================================= > <http://www.aeroelectric.com> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 804 bulkhead spacer
Date: Apr 25, 1998
> >Brain: > >Your wing spacer block should be made of dimensionally stable material, and >yes, you might want to make it .005 - .010 larger (thicker) than the spar >stub. If you have the aluminum material available for spacers, that will work >best. If not, two pieces of plywood with a thin aluminum spacer added will do >the trick. If you use wood, be cautious not to tighten the bolts too much or >you will squeeze the wood to an undersize dimension. Van's uses scrap aluminum >in the prototype shop for this reason. > >The 804C bulkheads have matching holes in them for the spar wing attach bolts. >When these are riveted to the 804 assembly, you will often have a small amount >of shifting. It is probably the holes in the 804C's mismatching the 804A & B >that are creating the tight bolt/scrubbing action that you describe. Take a >pin file and work off some material on the inside of these bolt holes through >the 804C's and I'll bet your problem will go away. Phil Arter used a reamer he >bought specially for this with excellent results. > >Hope this helps, >Jon Ross 80094 - Landing gear boxes Jon, Thanks so much for your help. I used a swivel deburing tool to open up the side (c&d) bulkhead holes just enough to allow the bolts to slip through without chafing. The holes in the A&B bulkhead anodized components, are still too tight. I'm guessing the anodize coating is causing the binding, and a reamer would clean up the holes. I just noted some reamers in Avery's catalog..so I guess it's time to get out the Visa card. The guy I flew with today (in his RV-4) said he had to ream out the holes and the wings installed with ease. He has 11 years on the airframe with no issues. Thanks again for your help! Brian Denk basking in the afterglow of an "RV grin" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Progress Report: Wing Installation on 6A
Listers, Today, for the first time in history, RV-6A s/n 22993 had it's wings mounted to the fuselage. It looks pretty cool even though it is upside down. Here is the rundown on what went on today. Took the left wing out of the jig and dropped/slid the spar into place. My greatest worry was the that the f-604/605 bulkhead distance would be wrong and the rear spar mount would interfere. Not to worry, it clanked right in. Installed a few bolts and the left wing, supported at the tip with a rope to the ceiling and it was in. Total time: about 30 minutes. Right wing, went a little faster. Problems: The wings had a lot of forward sweep. Had to remove both wings and cut 3/16" of the forward rear spar attach flange on the fuselage (f-605c) as the root rib aft flange bottomed out at this point. Stuck the wings back in and found that now the rear spar attach point on the wing needed to be notched as per drawing 14 to clear the fuselage skins. this was done with the wings on. Then the rear spar stubs on the wings bottomed out on the spacer blocks in the f-605C. Removed the spacer blocks, trimmed them down, and things finally fit. We used plumb bobs and chalk lines on the floor for measurements. One the centerline of the jig and the other from tip to tip of the wings. Simple geometry of right triangles then told us what wing was swept and which way. When we were done for the day the right wing tip still needed to move aft 1/8":. Other than that, no problem. Keep building. It looks really cool. Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993 Wings in inverted flight, mounted on fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin Tinckler" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: $50 Burger and RV heaven
Date: Apr 25, 1998
How is this related to RVs? Well, when you have one flying, you can do the following:...There must be a jillion places where you can fly in to get that airport burger (was there ever a bad one?), and enjoy the ambiance. My stop yesterday was just across the border where you get burgers like the B25,(two engines, two patties), Mustang etc., anybody old enough to remember when for 4 bits you got a burger with toasted bun, bacon, loaded, so big you couldn't eat supper. Tall glass of cold coke with rivulets streaming down the side ? For dessert, I would go stand behind the DC-6s as they fired up those glorious round engines that barked out peacock blue flames and oil smoke, and let it all blow in your face so you could taste aviation adventure ? Yesterday the wind was howling off the peaks and the ride was bumpy, but down there was a grass strip where gliders lay at rest on one tip like me with my chin on my arm, dusters quiet with the days work done. The RV handles this wind with aplomb and sidles in and with a blast of prop, turns and parks on a dime. The burger was great and as I strap in to leave, visitors arrive to look at RV and say "Isn't she lovely" ? Just like the Stevie Wonder song. She truly is, with the sun on the candy apple color paint, and after a bit, the prop arc becomes a disc and we lift up again among the snowy peaks. This is too good not to share when you have an empty seat there. I hope you do share as I am now and believe that all those pieces put together become a magic machine to go magic places and make your RV dream come true...... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly <Ferdfly(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Skinning Wings
<< Have any of you drilled the main skins to the main spar flanges while on the bench? This would serve to keep the main spar from drooping in the jig >> Mark, Just because your spar is on the bench is no guarantee that it is straight. Put it in the jig and use jacks, wedges, or whatever it takes to make it straight. You`ll be glad you did. Fred LaForge RV-4 6 mo. Till airborne. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor
> >I also want a low fuel indicator. A friend in The United Kingdom >manufactures simple float switches. I should have them in a few weeks, >the weight added will be less than 6 ounce for wire, sensors and lights. >Check with me in a few weeks. I am leaving Florida soon to return to >Michigan. How abount an optical sensor that is simply threaded through the tank wall at the level were you wish the light to come on? No moving parts. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Canopy sealant
<< What is appropriate for sealing between the external aluminum skirts and the plexiglas? Although one could probably get away with it, acrylic doesn't like the acetic acid given off by RTV silicone>> I have seen no negative effect on any acrylic as a result of any RTV I've ever used on or around it. I'm curious, what does the acrylic do if it doesn't like the acetic acid, just sit there just like acrylics are wont to do, then go pheew and then ignore it? ;^) << I'm looking for something less viscous than the sealing bead that is available for this from Aircraft Spruce. What have others used? >> I used some material that I had at work. I think it is Dow Corning #3140 and it flows real well when applied by syringe along the joint. It dries clear and sets up soft as a breast implant. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PhilipR920 <PhilipR920(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Tefzel Wire
I have Tefzel wire marked MIL 22579/16-XX and MIL 22579/32-XX (XX being wire size). The insulation on the "/32" appears to be thinner. What's significance of the digits after the slash? Thanks in advance, Phil Rogerson, 6AQ 60057 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy sealant
>What is appropriate for sealing between the external aluminum skirts and >the plexiglas? Although one could probably get away with it, acrylic >doesn't like the acetic acid given off by RTV silicone, and I'm looking for >something less viscous than the sealing bead that is available for this >from Aircraft Spruce. What have others used? >Thanks, >Alex Peterson GE 732 RTV is what Grummans use to bond the bow to the windshield (and canopy if applicable). No problems with *THIS* RTV and some are going on 25+ years with this method. Between the plexi and the AL fuselage skins Grummans use an automotive "dum-dum" caulk. 3M makes one called "strip caulk" and is is available at automotive paint stores for a few bucks. 1 Box will last through a lifetime of RV building and ownership. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Tank Rear Baffle Assembly RV-8
<< One newsletter I saw mentioned that one builder used sealant and clecoes to assemble the ribs to the skin, waited until the sealant cured, and then riveted the ribs to the skin. Has anyone on the list tried this? It sounds like a good option, but I would like some more opinions on this one. Steve Johnson RV-8 #80121 >> Hi All, It worked very well for John Peaslee on his RV-4. A structural mechanic from MDAC (Boeing, now) who is also an A&P, recommended the procedure to John. Standard practice, and all that. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 25, 1998
From: Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com>
Subject: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320
Has anyone had to shorten the dipstick tube on their 0-320 engines to allow clearance between the top of the dipstick and the cowl. This is an old style cowl which uses the longer prop adapter....if that makes any difference.I visited my friend and his RV-4 project and his dipstick does contact the cowl....he wants to build a new tube and shorten the dipstick...any comments ! Marc Degirolamo ....taking wings off....canopy/engine/cowl next mdee(at)dlcwest.com Marc DeGirolamo -4 #3289 Saskatoon,SK. Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: I was wrong about bandsaws
Life witout a bandsaw and a 1 in belt sander cannot possibly be complete. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Tefzel Wire
<< I have Tefzel wire marked MIL 22579/16-XX and MIL 22579/32-XX (XX being wire size). The insulation on the "/32" appears to be thinner. What's significance of the digits after the slash? >> The /16 is the standard wall thickness Tefzel over tin plated primaries. The /18 is the thin wall version. My Sonic catalog doesn't show the /32, but, if you're absolutely sure it is Tefzel, then it is probably fine for your a/c. The standard wall version is just a little more robust when it comes to being around things that can abrade (bad form regardless of wall thickness). The slash sheets have no numerical meaning per se. They are merely a way for the spec to address different hookup wire constructions/materials. For instance, /17 and /19 are the standard and thin wall Tefzel over silver plated primaries respectively. Other slash sheets cover TFE insulated wire and such. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Re: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320
The dipstick tube can be shortened as well as the dipstick. There are alum tubes and plastic ones. The alum ones can be heli arc welded after taking out a section from the middle. For the plastic ones , they can be joined back together with a pvc pipe coupling and cemented. Put a couple of blind rivets thru the coupling at each end to help carry torque loads. As for the dipstick, just shorten equal amount at the cap end and redrill the hole for the pin. You will find this works quite well Stew rv4 273Sb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: $50 Burger and RV heaven
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Nice words Austin, Tailwinds, the pink panther Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr PS About that B-25 Burger, I took my annual B-25 recurrency checkride today, $50 bucks won't buy that burger...... But, who could care what burgers cost. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Tank Rear Baffle Assembly RV-8
If you check out my website at http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm you will find that I did pretty much what you suggest. The objective is to put pressure along as much of the trailing edge as you can, so I borrowed an old trick and laid saran wrap over the spar, with wrap hanging over the web flanges. Once the rear baffle was riveted and the rivet heads sealed, I placed the tank on the spar and clecoed it in place. I used side grip clecoes at the inboard end where the second row of screws don't continue. When the proseal cured, I removed the tank and peeled off the saran wrap. The trailing edge conformed perfectly to my spar and there was no excess proseal to remove between the spar and tank. Hope this helps you. PatK - RV-6A MAlexan533 wrote: > > > I am finishing up my tanks, and have a question about the rear baffle. The > manual talks about using wood with a kerf, or 1x2s with clamps to sqeeze out > the excess sealant at the baffle to skin seam. If I understand correctly, it > is also saying to let this cure before machine countersinking and riveting the > skin to bafftle holes. Why can I not use clecoes to hold and sqeeze the baffle > to the skin, then after the sealant cures, machine countersink and rivet? I > think the clecoes would be removeable, since the sealant stays somewhat > pliable for quite a while. I am assuming the reason I can't machine > countersink before sealing the whole thing together is because the thickness > of the sealant will throw the hole alignment off. Any ideas or techniques? > Thanks > Von Alexander > RV-8 #544 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: wac chart , sectional soft ware
I know Jepp has the mapping software, but you better have a healthy credit card account, especially if you want updates. I don't know about it's printing capability. PatK - RV-6A RVer273sb wrote: > > Does any one out there know of any available software for printing > sectionals or wac charts on a pc? Seems like I have seen it > advertized somewhere. 273sb rv4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: some landing light options . . .
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Why not just go to your local auto salvage dealer and get the mounting bracket from a car, complete with the adjusters? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Re: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320
<< As for the dipstick, just shorten equal amount at the cap end and redrill the hole for the pin. >> This raises an interesting question for me. Is it reasonable to recalibrate our dipsticks for 6 qts after we get the system filled and purged with exactly 6 qts of oil (including that quantity in both the spin-on filter and the cooler)? Or maybe this is being to anal. I've noticed that when I put in 7 qts in my new O-360-A1A, the dipstick only reads 6 qts. To recal or not to recal... that is the question. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Skinning Wings
Date: Apr 26, 1998
I wouldn't do it that way. I put it in the jig and fitted the leading edge section first. Then the skins can be snugged up to the leading edge skin. No gap. Cecil > >Listers, > >I am in the process of mounting my wing ribs. It seems like a good >idea to do >as much of the work as possible on the bench before I put the wing in >the jig. > >Have any of you drilled the main skins to the main spar flanges while >on the >bench? This would serve to keep the main spar from drooping in the >jig and it >would make it easy to hang the skins onto the skeleton alone. Of >course I >would not drill through any ribs until the skeleton is aligned in the >jig. >Only the holes along the spar flange would be drilled on the bench. > >Is this a good way to do it, or am I missing something? > >Mark McGee >RV4 Wings > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com>
Subject: Re: wac chart , sectional soft ware
Jeppesen has digitized sectionals and WACs for their Flight Star program. They work well, but you gotta have a FAST computer with LOTS of memory and a FASTER color printer. Then you also have to subscribe to revision service. Not cheap. Jepp's system does not print a "strip map or trip map" of your planned route other than by doing each page individually in the proper sequence, which works, but is time comsuming. That is a much needed improvement which they say will come out someday. It is hard to beat a $7 printed WAC chart. Frank, RV4, N2ZK, June ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: some landing light options . . .
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Yes, the sealed beam mount from an auto sounds reasonable. If someone has tried it, I would like to hear what size of mount is required. Tom -----Original Message----- From: robert dziewiontkoski <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> Date: Sunday, April 26, 1998 8:30 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: some landing light options . . . > > >Why not just go to your local auto salvage dealer and get the mounting >bracket from a car, complete with the adjusters? > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: some landing light options . . .
> >Robert, > Last year I researched this possibility and came up with something very >similar; a Sylvania H4701. This is a 65W high beam (for a 4 headlight >system). I got it at Pep Boys for under $10. The size of the light is 5 >7/8 x 3 5/8. The 4352 is about $22 and an inch shorter in height. It it also a 65 watt device. I'd like to see some pictures of your installation. >I'm not an engineer but since starting this project, I'm starting to feel >like one. This is an "experimental" airplane you are building, is it not? Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: some landing light options . . .
> > >Why not just go to your local auto salvage dealer and get the mounting >bracket from a car, complete with the adjusters? > This might work. I picked up the application index and just scanned down the list until the first use of H-4352 popped up . . .a 96 Olds Cutlass Supreme. There are undoubedly others. A trip to the car parts store to research a shopping list for a trek to the salvage yards may produce some useable hardware. If anyone tries this with success, let's write it up. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com>
Subject: Canopy sealant
Date: Apr 26, 1998
>What is appropriate for sealing between the external aluminum skirts and >the plexiglas? Although one could probably get away with it, acrylic >doesn't like the acetic acid given off by RTV silicone, and I'm looking for >something less viscous than the sealing bead that is available for this >from Aircraft Spruce. What have others used? I called Tom at Van's and asked what they use up in rainy Oregon, and they said nobody up there sealed the sideskirt/plexi junction. And never had a leaking problem. I say if they don't do it in Oregon, I'm not going to do it here in sunny (usually) California! Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME mounting the HS & VS to the fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com>
Subject: I was wrong about bandsaws
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Hi Bob I bought the Vulcan at Post Tool. I don't know how long their sale is, but make sure you call ahead and make sure they have one in stock. I talked to someone at the San Carlos store and couldn't believe how clueless this one guy was about the tools they carried. I ended up buying it from the San Jose store down by Valley Fair mall. Let me know if you want help unloading the QB or anything - Mitch > -----Original Message----- > From: Qmax LLC > Sent: Friday, April 24, 1998 6:02 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: I was wrong about bandsaws > > > Hi Mitch, > > A vulcan band saw? Where'd you get it? I gotta go buy one and it > sounds like > you found a winner. I'm in San Mateo so the getting's easy. > > Last time we spoke I had the tail done....the QB 6 kit is due in the > next > couple of weeks. got the house projects finished so come on!!! > > > Bob Fritz > > 650-573-5258 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry E.\"Bud\" Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)gate.net>
Subject: Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Jim Bede had a great idea on one his ships.... he took four plexiglas rods cut them to different lengths and shape the end in the tank at 45 degrees. As the fuel level left each rod it would change color. thus showing the amount remaining in the tank. The other method is to stick you finger in the tank.... that's to do at 170 plus mph. ---------- > From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Low Fuel Level Sensor > Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 5:11 PM > > > > > >I also want a low fuel indicator. A friend in The United Kingdom > >manufactures simple float switches. I should have them in a few weeks, > >the weight added will be less than 6 ounce for wire, sensors and lights. > >Check with me in a few weeks. I am leaving Florida soon to return to > >Michigan. > > How abount an optical sensor that is simply threaded through > the tank wall at the level were you wish the light to > come on? No moving parts. > > > Bob . . . > //// > (o o) > ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= > < If you continue to do > > < What you've always done > > < You will continue to be > > < What you've always been. > > ================================= > <http://www.aeroelectric.com> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Re: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320
Is your aircraft a tailwheel configureation? If so level the ac and see what it reads. Also remember the oil lines, oil cooler, and filter hold quite alot of oil. Stew RV4 273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Weight & Balance??
From: lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Apr 26, 1998
A short time ago someone put a net address on the list, saying it was a very good weight and balance program. I tried the address and my machine told me it couldn't find the url. I probably copied it wrong. Could someone repost it please. Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: wac chart , sectional soft ware
> It is hard to beat a $7 printed WAC chart. That's what I've always used too, but on the advice of a friend I just ordered the new Topographic Atlas from Air Chart Systems (800-338-7221). It's an 11 x 11" spiral bound book that contains every WAC for the US, plus B & C airspace diagrams. The B & C diagrams are not on the standard WAC's, which means you also have to buy sectionals or terminal charts if flying through or near B or C airspace. The cost was $85 which includes 28 day updates for a year. I have not received it yet so have no other comment. -- Bob Reiff Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.execpc.com/reiff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PANNAIR <PANNAIR(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Re: wac chart , sectional soft ware
In a message dated 4/26/98 4:02:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Reiff(at)execpc.com writes: << RV-List message posted by: Bob Reiff >> Bob--- Nice article in the May 98' issue of PLANE & PILOT called Flight planning software comes of age. Is this what you are looking for? Hope this helps. Dave--- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: RV in Combat
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Ohh Dear !... Dare I report this ?....I must claim my first victory today. Shot down a Mooney....Couldn't help it...seemed like the thing to do. I was tooling along coming back down the valley from the aerie of the snowy peaks, when down there..down over the muddy brown waters of the winding river, a pair of white wings, stooging along twisting this way and that. Damn, he's fast, but I'm faster. I point the nose down, and here we come, suddenly he swoops up and left and I know he can't see me, how can you do like Mark says and Check Six in a Mooney ? I snapped off a burst but I have no tracers so he must be just dumb lucky. He turns tight left but I am inside of him easily. We do this for 720 at least while I play with him. Enough, we're getting low, so I give him a final squirt, waggle the wings and depart. Shot down a Mooney. Friends say he deserved it. RV sure is slick going down hill. Well, I did add a tad of throttle. Not far off is home base, I come in hot and use up half the runway. No victory roll permitted and besides, I'm too old for foolishness. How do I explain to thee ? Can't. Except one is obliged to feel out aircraft and become familiar with said aircraft's capability for turns, maneuvers, whatever. I am still a student you see, so all this is a learning experience. RV has lots to teach me. I am a willing student....Back at the hardstand, engine ticking over like the beat of a thoroughbred's flanks, I simply dismount, absent the scarf, absent the goggles, but grateful to have this mount and happy she brought me home to fight another day................ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Mounting fiberglass tips
Date: Apr 26, 1998
How did you all mount the aluminium reinforcing strips to the inside of the fibergalls tips? I tried using fiberglass resin but the strips popped off while I was drilling the tips to the skins. Methinks I'm going to use some epoxy instead but would like some other ideas if you got 'em. Looking to find the wisdom that was evidently missing from the family gene pool. Respectfully, Nick Knobil Bowdoinham, Maine RV8 Wings on Wait 6TPR > >>Hi! >>We have GPS antenna. >>Please visit our web page http://www.at-taiwan.com/~com00602/ This should do it for those interested. ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._ Bill Nash `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`) Aircraft Remanufacturing Corp (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `.``-..-' 1531 Avohill Dr _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' Vista, Ca 92084 (760) 749 0239 (((),-'' (((),' (((.-' Email: bjnash(at)connectnet.com Web Site: http://www.freeyellow.com/members/aircraft-reman/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: RE: RV-6A Gear Leg Mounts
> >Listers, > >The gear mounts for my RV-6A do not fit the fuselage sides when flush >against the wing spar. The advice I'm getting (from Van's) is that this >is common. I am to heat the 'struts' that go forward to the fuselage >from the spar and bend them to fit. I don't have a torch and don't know >what I'm doing when I heat steel. Anybody out there in RV-land been >here and successfully gone beyond this stage? I'm thinking that >shimming the mount at the wing spar might bring the forward 'strut' into >the right position. > >Steve Soule >In the shop staring at the wing on the fuselage, the wings and gear on >(temporarily) Steve, I am not sure in what direction the misalignment is occurring. My RV6A gear legs also had a misalignment such that when all the wing spar bolts are in place the "flat" on the forward bottomost support was inside the lower piece of angle by about 1/8". I manufactured a 1/8 shim for this out of aluminium sheet. This does alter the length of the fasteners that go through the fuselage at this point. Heating and bending sounds a bear to me because you would have to take the fitting out, heat and bend, bolt it back in to check, heat and bend again etc etc. Not sure if others have had this problem. Leo Davies, Panel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Tom Goeddel <tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com>
Subject: Fuselage inspection openings
Hi all, I'm getting ready to cut inspection openings on both sides of the rear of the fuselage on my -6a and I am wondering about the size. It looks like I should barely be able to squeeze in a hole w/ the dimensions shown on the plans (3 1/4" X 2 1/2") for the outside of the cover. Once the 3/8" flange is added on all sides, that only leaves an opening of 2 1/2" X 1 3/4". Is that really big enough to do what you need to do back there? It looks to me like you would need to have hands the size of munchkins to work in that opening. I'd be inclined to make it bigger, but there isn't room between the flanges of the two rear bulkheads (at least to do it the way the plans show). What have the rest of you done back there? I searched the archives (admittedly not real carefully - the volume of stuff there is getting huge...) but came up empty. Tom "Not-So-Little-Hands" Goeddel RV-6a (still at it...) tgoeddel(at)monmouth.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Re: wac chart , sectional soft ware
<< Jeppesen has digitized sectionals and WACs for their Flight Star program. They work well, but you gotta have a FAST computer with LOTS of memory and a FASTER color printer. Then you also have to subscribe to revision service. Not cheap. >> I am on the second revision of the Jepp Flight Star - Mento Program - works fine on a 166 Pent Lap Top & also functions as a Moving Map GPS with the optional Antena. I dont feel it replaces the Jep Charts - Just too much time to print - But the flight planning is real good. BSivori ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bol(at)thebol.com
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Searching_for_Latex_Gloves
--divider Att. Sales / Export Department Re: Request for LATEX GLOVES A "RFQ" for LATEX GLOVES products which, to the best of our knowledge are similar to those offered by you ,was placed with us by one of our clients. We are a world wide sourcing firm and we are paid by our clients to find them suitable suppliers . To you ,our service is totally free of charge !!! The information we will get from you will not only be immediately sent to this particular client but also to all other clients looking for similar products . To define and advise us the products you are interested to export and/or to get more information about us and our FREE SERVICE , please use our Internet interface at: http://www.thebol.com Best Regards BOL sourcing international Ltd Purchasing department --divider-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WLPMAP <WLPMAP(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: lateral imballance concern
After much research I finally decided on building the RV 6A or so I thought. A very giving individual invited me for a ride in his prestine 6A. Due to my size and weight (6' / 250) it was necessary for him to hold left alerion. I realized that this would not go away when I swapped positions with him and my wife took the copilot position. Obviously this will cause some drag/speed penalities..? Has anyone else run up against this and how have you dealt with it..? I have thought of possible changing to the RV8A ... Purchasing tools.. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Installing Ribs
Listers, I am currently mounting my ribs and have encountered one location where my bolt hole is close to the attach angle flange. The manual allows me to grind bolt heads or washers if needed, but I prefer not to have to grind a bolt head. As an alternative to grinding a bolt, is it acceptable to use a high grade socket head cap screw ? This would fit without grinding the head. Is anyone familiar with the Holo-Krome/Allen fasteners ? Would they be comparable to AN hardware in strength ? They are advertised as having the highest torque/clamping force in the entire industry and they are traceable all the way back to the steel mill. I also have a builder's tip. For drilling the rib attach angles I use a four inch long center drill. It only cuts at the tip and does not damage the spar stiffeners as I back drill. They are available from Travers Tool, 1-800-221-0270, in stock and on time. Mark McGee RV4 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrooksRV6(at)webtv.net (Chris Brooks)
Date: Apr 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Mounting fiberglass tips
--WebTV-Mail-269622290-8519 Nick, I epoxied mine on the empannage, and it worked out OK. I tried something different on the wings that was less messy. 1) drilled holes in wings. 2) fitted, and duct taped wing tips to wings 3) drilled thru fiberglass tips and clecoed 4) removed tips and clamped aluminum reinforceing strips to them 5) drilled thru aluminum strips using wing tip as a template. 6) drilled additional holes thru wing tip and aluminum strip between every other hole for -3 rivets to hold strip to tip 7) prime the strips and rivet nut-plates to them. 8) rivet strips to wingtips with holes that were drilled between every other nut-plate Chris Brooks --WebTV-Mail-269622290-8519 From: Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> Subject: RV-List: Mounting fiberglass tips Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:51:40 -0400 How did you all mount the aluminium reinforcing strips to the inside of the fibergalls tips? I tried using fiberglass resin but the strips popped off while I was drilling the tips to the skins. Methinks I'm going to use some epoxy instead but would like some other ideas if you got 'em. Looking to find the wisdom that was evidently missing from the family gene pool. Respectfully, Nick Knobil Bowdoinham, Maine RV8 Wings on Wait --WebTV-Mail-269622290-8519-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV8 804 bulkhead spacer
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Apr 25, 1998
> >The spacer to be made for the 804 fuselage/wing center section >bulkhead...exactly how should it be sized? I plan to use a micrometer >to >measure the spar thickness, but should there be a few thousandths >clearance added so that the wings can be slid into place without >having >to beat on anything? Also, the close tolerance wing bolts...no >kidding! >Those holes in the spar and bulkhead are just a wee bit TOO close, as >it >appears right now. I already scrubbed the cadmium plating back a >little >bit from one of the bolts, and that was just from using them to align >the bulkhead sides before riveting, per instructions. Has anyone found >a >need to "micro-ream" the holes? And, if so..just how did you do it? >Lubrication didn't help at all...it's so tight that the lube just gets > >scrubbed off. > >Thankyou, > >Brian Denk >-8 #379 >tanks and center section > Brian, If I remember correctly the engineering design for the bolt holes was for a net fit, meaning that the bolt hole is the exact same diam. as the bolt. When building the 2 prototypes we didn't have any problems that I remember. I believe that the spec for the bolt has no plus or minus deviation allowed, so that shouldn't be an explanation. I would strongly discourage you about using any kind of reamer though. A better idea may be to put the bolts in a freezer over night (though this wont help in getting them out again if you let them warm up). As for the spacer... we have used a stack of bar stock that matched the thickness of the spar and have had know problems installing the wings. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: lateral imballance concern
WLPMAP wrote: > > > After much research I finally decided on building the RV 6A or so I thought. > A very giving individual invited me for a ride in his prestine 6A. > Due to my size and weight (6' / 250) it was necessary for him to hold left > alerion. > I realized that this would not go away when I swapped positions with him > and my wife took the copilot position. > > Obviously this will cause some drag/speed penalities..? > Has anyone else run up against this and how have you dealt with it..? > > I have thought of possible changing to the RV8A ... > Purchasing tools.. > WALMAP This is one area that I am a expert on as I am also of the large stature 6'3" and 255lbs. and in 900hrs of RV-6 time this is not even a issue. When the tanks are full I will start burning fuel from the left tank first then switch tanks as needed to help balance things out. As far as drag and speed penalties I am not any slower than any other comparable equipped RV-6. As I said a non issue as far as I'm concerned. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: lateral imballance concern
I have a friend with a -6 that first flew 2 months ago. He also had a left wing heavy problem. After speaking to Van, he was told to inspect to see if the aileron on that side was mounted too LOW. Stand in front of the wing with the ailerons neutral. If the leading edge of the aileron protrudes below the bottom of the wing skin, it will create a wing heavy condition like you describe. In my -6, I need right aileron trim solo with full fuel until I burn off some fuel off the left tank. With two on board, it is neutral. BTW, I am 179 lbs the last time I checked (3 weeks). ---WLPMAP wrote: > > > After much research I finally decided on building the RV 6A or so I thought. > A very giving individual invited me for a ride in his prestine 6A. > Due to my size and weight (6' / 250) it was necessary for him to hold left > alerion. > I realized that this would not go away when I swapped positions with him > and my wife took the copilot position. > > Obviously this will cause some drag/speed penalities..? > Has anyone else run up against this and how have you dealt with it..? > > I have thought of possible changing to the RV8A ... > Purchasing tools.. == Gary A. Sobek RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Kitplane Magazines
Listers, I am going through Kitplane magazines and will be throwing away about 100 them. In the April and May 1996 issues is the two part test of the RV-8. The June 1997 issue has an article on the Chevy RV-6a. If anyone is interested in these 3 issues, I will mail them for the price of the postage. Contact me off-list. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Re: lateral imballance concern
WLPMAP wrote: > > > After much research I finally decided on building the RV 6A or so I thought. > A very giving individual invited me for a ride in his prestine 6A. > Due to my size and weight (6' / 250) it was necessary for him to hold left > alerion. > I realized that this would not go away when I swapped positions with him > and my wife took the copilot position. > > Obviously this will cause some drag/speed penalities..? > Has anyone else run up against this and how have you dealt with it..? > > I have thought of possible changing to the RV8A ... .. I have taken 200lb'ers (plus) up in my RV-6a and had no trouble. The spring (manual) airleron trim handles such unbalance easily, as it does with fuel unbalance. I suppose with a 250lb'er in the right seat, and the right fuel tank empty you would have a problem, but with normal common sense you'll have no trouble. I don't, and neither I nor my RV-6A are any sort of experts/miracle workers. Go for it! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Subject: Re: Mounting fiberglass tips
Date: Apr 26, 1998
>How did you all mount the aluminium reinforcing strips to the inside of the >fibergalls tips? I tried using fiberglass resin but the strips popped off >while I was drilling the tips to the skins. Methinks I'm going to use some >epoxy instead but would like some other ideas if you got 'em. Nick, I just went through this stage. I must have looked at 20 finished RVs and talked to as many owners about installing their tips. What I found is that very few people put any kind of strip or even washers. Most just riveted right through the fiberglass. I have also not found one single person to have any attachment failure regardless of attachment method. My own decision was to countersink the skins, thus keeping as much fiberglass as possible, and then pop rivet them on with CS-4s as called out int he plans. You can also use aluminum washers behind those rivets that you can reach, but I found the washers after I riveted the tips. FWIW, Randy Lervold RV-8 #80500, wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Mark Graf <markgraf(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy sealant
Mitch Faatz wrote: > > > >What is appropriate for sealing between the external aluminum skirts > and > >the plexiglas? I have seen several including silicon and tapes, but the best by far was a small bead of PROSEAL that was very nicely wrapped around the entire seam between the plex and the aluminum or fberglass. It has a nice black color, is light, and does not act against the plex. It is also a nice place to use up that little bit of PROSEAL you had laying around. Mark Graf N71CG RV-6 150 hp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV-6A top wing skins
I'm working on the 6A QB wings. Sketch QB7-2 shows the inboard top wing skin, W-602, overlapping the outboard, W-603. W-602 is already riveted & I'm having trouble getting W-603 to slide between W-602 & the rib. On the plans, drawing 21 indicates that the outboard skin overlaps the inboard. Which is correct? The QB wing bottom already has inboard over outboard. How have other QB builders approached this? Chris Good. RV-6AQ West Bend, WI. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor
> >Jim Bede had a great idea on one his ships.... he took four plexiglas rods >cut them to different lengths and shape the end in the tank at 45 degrees. > As the fuel level left each rod it would change color. thus showing the >amount remaining in the tank. The other method is to stick you finger in >the tank.... that's to do at 170 plus mph. that's a carry over of the same technology upon which my suggested hardware was based. Back in the 50's, Delco batteries began to incorporate what was called the "Delco Eye" . . . a piece of green plex, 90 degree conical tip on far end, molded into battery filler cap. Sunlight would enter the top of the rod and be lost into the liquid below if the conical tip was submerged. When battery water got too low, the light was reflected back and the end of the plex rod glowed green. About 1970 I build some rapid response, liquid level sensors for installation in fuel tanks of some light twins while doing some fuel slosh research. A stack of 1/2" thick prisims 6" high were fitted with lamp bulbs and photocells. The photocells triggered a column of lights on the instrument panel . .. each illuminated lamp represented 1/2" of fuel at the tank outlet. Years later, I developed fuel level sensor probes of various styles and lengths for Beech . . . they're still used on most of the turbine twins . . . and may make it onto the new jet. Nowadays, lots of folk make the basic sensors. One interesting possiblity is to illuminate the back side of the prisim with a superbright LED. Use a crofon fiber bundle to pipe the reflected light directly to the panel. One illuminator, no electronics, little spot of light on panel shows red when fuel is low . . . Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: 6A Gear Mounts
Sometimes I just want to throw in the towel and call it quits. I don't think that one part in the whole fuselage has fit without some sort of modification. Maybe it is just me, but..... I guess I'll keep on building. I threw a straight edge against the gear mounts along the side that bolts to the lower longeron that spans between the f-604 and the firewall and found that the forward lower mounting point on both gear leg mounts will need shimming or bending to fit. Both mounts are identical and there is not one 6A out there that they would fit. I decided to leave this point of drilling until last. As I see it, with the pre drilled gear, there is not much adjustment available to the builder. I am not complaining as I really did not want to have to drill the 5/16 hole through the gear leg. What I did was to clamp the gear mount tightly into the corner made by the intersection of the main spar and the lower f-604 to firewall longeron/angle. I adjusted the gear to wing skin height at 21 3/4" as per the the plans and then checked the camber and toe-in as per the plans and manual. Toe-in looked good and the camber checked out at about 7 degrees on the left gear and 8 degrees on the right. This took my wife and me about 30 minutes. I back drilled the mount using a 1/8 inch long bit and a 3/16 od (1/8 id) piece of copper tubing for a drill guide. Boelube was used to prevent galling of the copper drill guide. Drilling was fairly easy and took about 45 minutes/side to drill the mounts to the spar. I then enlarged a couple of the holes and bolted the mount to the spar before drilling the 1/4 inch holes through the f-604 to firewall angle. These holes were also pilot drilled 1/8 inch before reaming to 1/4 for the AN4 bolts. The forward attach point required either heating and bending of the mount or a spacer. I chose the spacer option as I would not have to remove the mount for heating and bending although as I write this I may change my mind as I have not yet drilled these last two holes. The only real problem I had was when I stuck the gear into the left mount for the first time. I did not clean off the cosmoline and got the gear leg stuck in the mount. In my efforts to free the gear I got some galling of the upper end and had to polish out the upper end of the mount and gear. I cleaned the right gear and mount out real good, lubed up the gear and it slid in with a real nice close tolerance fit. Clean them up before putting them together. Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993. Fabricating tank to fuselage fittings. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 26, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage inspection openings
Tom Goeddel wrote: > I'm getting ready to cut inspection openings on both sides of the rear > of the fuselage on my -6a and I am wondering about the size. It looks > like I should barely be able to squeeze in a hole w/ the dimensions > shown on the plans (3 1/4" X 2 1/2") for the outside of the cover. Once > the 3/8" flange is added on all sides, that only leaves an opening of > 2 1/2" X 1 3/4". Tom, I cut a round hole for the inspection plate. This is a lot easier than the rectangle to fabricate. The actual hole size in the reinforcing ring is 2.5". This sounds a little small (I have big hands too) but all that needs to be done in this hole is to put a bolt through a hole and install a washer and nut. I am not putting and inspection plate on both sides and will cut a 1" hole on the right side and plug with a plastic plug used for electrical boxes. The 1" hole is just so that a socket can be place through it. Placement of this hole will wait until the elevators and horn are installed. Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993 Drilled the gear mounts today. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A top wing skins
Date: Apr 27, 1998
>I'm working on the 6A QB wings. Sketch QB7-2 shows the inboard top wing >skin, W-602, overlapping the outboard, W-603. W-602 is already riveted & >I'm having trouble getting W-603 to slide between W-602 & the rib. On the >plans, drawing 21 indicates that the outboard skin overlaps the inboard. >Which is correct? The QB wing bottom already has inboard over outboard. >How have other QB builders approached this? > >Chris Good. >RV-6AQ >West Bend, WI. Chris, The wing skins should have the outboard skin on top of the inboard. I understand it is to keep any water (such as morning dew condensation) from seeping into the overlap joint as it trickles toward the wing root due to the dihedral. I'm sure there are other reasons, but they don't come to mind right now. Enjoy! Brian Denk -8 #379 tanks and center section ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy sealant
Date: Apr 27, 1998
---------- > From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> > What is appropriate for sealing between the external aluminum skirts and > the plexiglas? Alex, I used "glazing tape" on an RV-6 canopy. Got it from the local glass company. Bob Cabe San Antonio; cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Mark, I have the short oil filler tube and a new dip stick. I need the long tube and dip stick for the O-320 on my RV-6.. Do you want to trade? The short tube is about 6 1/2" long. I think the long one is about 10" long. If you are interested in a trade, drop me a line off the list. robert.cabe(at)usaa.com Bob Cabe San Antonio ---------- > From: Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320 > Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:41 PM > > > Has anyone had to shorten the dipstick tube on their 0-320 engines to allow > clearance between the top of the dipstick and the cowl. This is an old style > cowl which uses the longer prop adapter....if that makes any difference.I > visited my friend and his RV-4 project and his dipstick does contact the > cowl....he wants to build a new tube and shorten the dipstick...any comments ! > > Marc Degirolamo ....taking wings off....canopy/engine/cowl next > mdee(at)dlcwest.com > Marc DeGirolamo > -4 #3289 > Saskatoon,SK. > Canada > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: $50 Burger and RV heaven
, anybody old enough to >remember when for 4 bits you got a burger with toasted bun, bacon, loaded, >so big you couldn't eat supper. Tall glass of cold coke with rivulets >streaming down the side ? For dessert, I would go stand behind the DC-6s as >they fired up those glorious round engines that barked out peacock blue >flames and oil smoke, and let it all blow in your face so you could taste >aviation adventure ? ** I'm even Older then that, Austin! That takes me back to lots of grand memories. You really are making some us envious, but keep it up! It may make me work harder. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Back from Sun N Fun
Flew back from Sun N Fun yesterday AM. 4:15Min total time enroute with one 15 minute fuel stop from LAL to Manasas, VA (HEF) - not bad for 150hp fixed pitch airplane.... Anyway I made a big decision while down there - I'm gonna do it again. This time I will build an -8. Sorry dear (wife) but I just like the way it looks better than a -6. Funny thing about opinions, too - to me the -6A looks better than the -6 but the -8 looks better than the 8A. Anyway after I get some chores done at home a new check to Van's will be in the mail... These are great airplanes. Richard E. Bibb RV-4 N144KT Oak Hill, VA rbibb(at)fore.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor
>> How abount an optical sensor that is simply threaded through >> the tank wall at the level were you wish the light to >> come on? No moving parts. >> >I also want a low fuel indicator. A friend in The United Kingdom >> >manufactures simple float switches. I should have them in a few weeks, >> >the weight added will be less than 6 ounce for wire, sensors and lights. >Jim Bede had a great idea on one his ships.... he took four plexiglas rods >cut them to different lengths and shape the end in the tank at 45 degrees. > As the fuel level left each rod it would change color. thus showing the >amount remaining in the tank. The other method is to stick you finger in >the tank.... that's to do at 170 plus mph. It was the BD-5, and there were *6* plexi rods of varying length cut to a cone type point on one end, and cemeted together and then cut off flat at 45 degrees on the other end and cemeted to a small square of plexi sheet. It works great in the day time. I have the plans if anyone would like to see them. I could scan them and put them on the web if interest is there for them. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Fuselage inspection openings
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Make the opening look like a U. Open at the top. Works for me Cecil > >I'm getting ready to cut inspection openings on both sides of the rear >of the fuselage on my -6a and I am wondering about the size. It looks >like I should barely be able to squeeze in a hole w/ the dimensions >shown on the plans (3 1/4" X 2 1/2") for the outside of the cover. >Once >the 3/8" flange is added on all sides, that only leaves an opening of >2 1/2" X 1 3/4". Is that really big enough to do what you need to do >back there? It looks to me like you would need to have hands the size >of >munchkins to work in that opening. I'd be inclined to make it bigger, >but there isn't room between the flanges of the two rear bulkheads (at >least to do it the way the plans show). What have the rest of you done >back there? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Wesley T Robinson <wesleyt(at)twave.net>
Subject: Steven Frey Jig Available
Hello Listers. I have a RV6 (6A) Steven Frey metal fuse jig in excellent condition for sale. I will deliver it to you or meet you anywhere in NC, upper SC, or lower VA. All original instructions and photos are included. If you have any questions you may E-mail me at wesleyt(at)twave.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric.Henson(at)cendantmobility.com
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: RV in Combat
Hey Austin, be sure to paint a "$" under your canopy. Jolly Good show ole boy. Eric Ohh Dear !... Dare I report this ?....I must claim my first victory today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Empenage fairing!!!
Some time ago someone had a offer of a single layer copy of the supplied fairing like Gil Alexander wrote that was included in this RVator. I couldn't find in the archive, honest! I butchered my factory fairing trying to get it to blend with the airplane. So I can't use it to make a copy now. Who ever had that offer (I think remember who it was) can contact me at harje(at)proaxis.com if you prefer. Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patty" <d020205(at)vm.sc.edu>
Subject: Chrome Plating rudder pedals
Date: Apr 27, 1998
I am interested in getting my rudder pedals chrome plated. A local company gave me a quote of $50. Is that a reasonable price? Also, would you still need to use the 3-M tape to protect the chrome? Patty Gillies D020205(at)vm.sc.edu ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: RVs in flying clubs
Does anyone know what the legality is of an RV being part of a flying club? Once my plane is finished, am I allowed to set up a small club and let other pilots fly the airplane for appropriate compensation. (I'm thinking $40 an hour.) Does the legality change if you charge monthly fees or require members to have an equity share in the airplane? -Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Canopy sealant
> What is appropriate for sealing between the external aluminum skirts and > the plexiglas? I'm sure that by now you have more suggestions than you know what to do with, but here's another: I used a product called "Lexel" to seal my canopy fairings. It's safe to use on plexi, cleans up with Naptha or alcohol, is clear and paintable, and NOT silicone based. Good stuff. Used it on the recommendation of a Mooney owner who used it to seal his new windshield. Got it at the local Ace hardware store. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: First Flight
Well, after three and a half years of dreaming about being able to push the mic button and say "1DB on the roll", it finally happened for real yesterday. With myself at the controls, My RV-6, sn 23744, N601DB slipped the surly bonds of earth for the first time. The first flight lasted about 25 minutes, and was uneventful. With the IO320-B1A and the constant-speed prop, the takeoff was so quick it was almost a blur (By the time I had all the power in, I was airborne). The landing was also pretty good. Some particulars: Engine: IO320B1A Prop: Hartzell Constant Speed Weight: 1057 .4 hrs down 24.6 to go Best Regards, Dave Barnhart SN 23744 N601DB Flying (Boy, how I've daydreamed about being able to say that!!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Fuselage inspection openings
My next door neighbor ten year old refused to help anymore with things inside the tiny inspection hole at the rear. I mean the elevator rod connection point access hole. It is that tiny! hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: RV-6A top wing skins
> I'm working on the 6A QB wings. Sketch QB7-2 shows the inboard top wing > skin, W-602, overlapping the outboard, W-603. W-602 is already riveted & > I'm having trouble getting W-603 to slide between W-602 & the rib. On the > plans, drawing 21 indicates that the outboard skin overlaps the inboard. > Which is correct? The QB wing bottom already has inboard over outboard. > How have other QB builders approached this? > > Chris Good. > RV-6AQ > West Bend, WI. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: RVs in flying clubs
Joe, I am sure you will hear from others on this, but my understanding is that an amature built aircraft can not legally be rented or otherwise require compensation for use. I believe you can receive money for the fuel/oil used (but not certain about even that), but actually compensation for airframe use is forbidden by FAA. There is only one RV-6 that I am aware of that such compensation is legal and it is registered under a more restrictive "expermential category" and which I understand is required to meet higher standards. My recommendation is don't do it. Ed Rv-6a N494BW Joe Larson wrote: > > Does anyone know what the legality is of an RV being part of a flying club? > Once my plane is finished, am I allowed to set up a small club and let other > pilots fly the airplane for appropriate compensation. (I'm thinking $40 > an hour.) Does the legality change if you charge monthly fees or require > members to have an equity share in the airplane? > > -Joe > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Whell Pants
I'm getting ready to order the finish kit for my RV6A. What is the consensus of opinion on which wheel pants to go with? Should I order Van's 1pc, 2pc, or Sam James' 2 pc? Any other items I might need to consider when I order would be helpful. I've already got the Barnard "Howl Cowl", so that will be left off the order. I'm putting in a 200HP IO-360A1B6D engine which I understand takes the dynofocal type 1 engine mount. Any and all opinions welcome! You can reply directly to me or the list. Thanks in advance--- Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage emcole(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brad Bundy" <bundyb(at)infowest.com>
Subject: Fw: unsubscribe
Date: Apr 27, 1998
---------- > From: Brad Bundy <bundyb(at)infowest.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: unsubscribe > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 1:59 PM > > unsubscribe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: RVs in flying clubs
I thhink the only way to do this legally would be some sort of joint ownership where the members of the club all had equity stakes in the airplane. I'm no lawyer and the FARs are tricky so I would get good advice on this first. A call to the FSDO might help. > >Joe, I am sure you will hear from others on this, but my understanding is that an >amature built aircraft can not legally be rented or otherwise require compensation >for use. I believe you can receive money for the fuel/oil used (but not certain >about even that), but actually compensation for airframe use is forbidden by FAA. >There is only one RV-6 that I am aware of that such compensation is legal and it >is registered under a more restrictive "expermential category" and which I >understand is required to meet higher standards. My recommendation is don't do >it. > >Ed >Rv-6a N494BW > >Joe Larson wrote: > >> >> Does anyone know what the legality is of an RV being part of a flying club? >> Once my plane is finished, am I allowed to set up a small club and let other >> pilots fly the airplane for appropriate compensation. (I'm thinking $40 >> an hour.) Does the legality change if you charge monthly fees or require >> members to have an equity share in the airplane? >> >> -Joe >> > > > > > > > > Richard E. Bibb Direct: 703-245-4505 Vice President, Federal Operations Main: 703-245-4544 Fore Systems Federal, Inc. FAX: 703-245-4500 1595 Spring Hill Road Pager: 800-719-1246 5th Floor Vienna, VA 22182 We're from Pittsburgh, we make networks that last. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Rob Reece <reece(at)rt66.com>
Subject: Oil Sump & Starter Gear/Ring
I have an O-290G engine that is in very good shape and may use it on my RV-3. Can anyone tell me a good source for acquiring an O-235/O-290/O-320 oil sump and a starter gear ring for my engine? Obviously not worried about keeping it "certified." Can anyone give me a guess/estimate on how much these parts will run me used for a non-certified engine? Just trying to do some proactive $$$ planning to appease the spouse. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Rob Reece _________________________________________ Rob Reece InfoTech Manager, Scorpius Range Coordinator / Liaison Engineer Microcosm/InfoTech c/o EMRTC New Mexico Tech Mail Station Socorro, NM 87801 Phone: (505) 835-5716 Fax: (505) 835-5714/5680 Email: reece(at)rt66.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Empenage fairing!!!
<< Some time ago someone had a offer of a single layer copy of the supplied fairing like Gil Alexander wrote that was included in this RVator. I couldn't find in the archive, honest! I butchered my factory fairing trying to get it to blend with the airplane. So I can't use it to make a copy now. Who ever had that offer (I think remember who it was) can contact me at harje(at)proaxis.com if you prefer. Thanks! >> I will have these available after May 11. Feel free to "remind" me that you need one of these.... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tailwheel weight w/o wings
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
I'm waiting for my engine to arrive and am wondering if I need to plan to weight the aft fuselage. Is there a safe amount of weight on the tailwheel of a 6 with the wings not installed and the engine installed? Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6QME N441LP Reserved Waiting on Aerosport Power O-360 engine and Sensenich prop. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: lasers on rv's
What ever happened to the thread about putting an "air combat usa" type of laser gun and sighting system on an RV? For those of us who could not make the military, this would be a fun substitute with our high performance machines.... any engineers out there care to comment? Paul Besing RV-6A Working on targeting and aquisition systems (FLIR) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Re:Edge Distance Flap Hinge.
Guy's I drilled the flap hing to the rear skin as called for in the Book & Plans - Pre drilled the hinge, side griped it to the rear spar and made sure I was level and had the correct distance from the Airlron, and had the Wing Templates in place. I then back dilled through the hinge into the bottom skin. Suprise - When I removed the hinge - I did not have the edge distance I would have liked to have had on the bottom skin. Any suggestions or should I just order a new bottom skin & the wider hing from Van's & DO IT OVER Frustrated Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Sliding canopy frame fit questions
Hi all, I cut 3/16th inch out of the left front bow of my sliding canopy frame and now it fits much better. Yet some things are unclear to me. What really needs to fit what and how well at this point? When I try to make the (closed) frame front bow parallel with the roll over bar, the back end is too high. So I wonder, do they really need to come out parallel? When I get the rear slider track rail mounted on the a/c centerline, the canopy frame is off center. If I set the track off about a 1/4 inch, it is okay. What is really important here? If I set a straight-edge on the turtledeck on the centerline, should it be above, below or in line with the canopy frame? Or one plexiglass thickness below? So far, I have resisted all urges to bend the canopy frame. Body men can adjust car doors by putting a block in the hinge opening and pushing the door against it thus bending the door. Amateurs try this and I pretty much ruined a door! Is there a need for rubber seals between canopy frame and roll bar? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel weight w/o wings
Date: Apr 27, 1998
> Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM Larry, With the engine installed (O-320), a -6 will sit three point without the wings. However, it takes very little additional weight to tip the nose down. I hung plastic grocery bags on the tail with about ten pounds of sand in them. Made a big difference. Bob San Antonio; cowling ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Wheel Pants
I deleted the fairings for both the wing and empennage, I will fabricate both by using Jim Cone's instructions, you can buy empennage flimsy from Mark Fredrick. I also deleted the gear leg fairings, I will order from Tracy Sailor or Mark Fredrick. I ordered Van's 2 piece wheel pants and the new epoxy cowl. Order placed mid March 98, packing date last week in June. Bob Busick RV-6 Fremont CA << Any other items I might need to consider when I order would be helpful. I've already got the Barnard "Howl Cowl", so that will be left off the order. I'm putting in a 200HP IO-360A1B6D engine which I understand takes the dynofocal type 1 engine mount. Any and all opinions welcome! You can reply directly to me or the list. Thanks in advance--- Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage emcole(at)ix.netcom.com >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: RVs in flying clubs
) > >Does anyone know what the legality is of an RV being part of a flying club? Only registered owners and freebees, Joe. They use an authorized factory airplane (only) for checkouts thru Van's, as was explain one of Van's people. that someone else built. We had a cost sharing agreement between 3 of us who flew it besides the owner. We drew up the variable costs based on the local fuel prices, oil, and tires. We just kept track of our time and paid per hour to the owner, and separately calculated insurance and hangar rent. We discussed our arrangement with the local FSDO and they agreed it was fine. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if a diffrent FSDO would give you a completely different answer. If you charged anything over and above the direct cost of flying (e.g. $5/hr for engine o-haul reserve) then I think it would be getting dicey as far as the regs are concerned. On the other hand, if you sold shares in the plane, then you would be set, since there is no reg against people co-owning an experimental and sharing whatever costs there are however they want. I know of several situations where people have done this. Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Chuck Dunlap <chuck(at)zekes.com>
Subject: Re: Chrome Plating rudder pedals
$50 seems pretty reasonable. I paid over $100 to have my RV4 rollbar plated. There are many steps and much preparation work involved in the chrome plating process. I think it would look better to protect the pedal with some auto heater hose because the chrome will get scratched. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com>
Subject: Sliding canopy frame fit questions
Date: Apr 27, 1998
> >What really needs to fit what and how well at this point? When I > try to make > >the (closed) frame front bow parallel with the roll over bar, the > back end is > >too high. So I wonder, do they really need to come out parallel? > > No, they should not be parallel. Remember the plexi is still curving > upwards > when it hits the roll bar, so the canopy frame is actually higher than > the roll > bar to meet the canopy at that point. > > >When I get the rear slider track rail mounted on the a/c centerline, > the canopy > >frame is off center. If I set the track off about a 1/4 inch, it is > okay. What > >is really important here? > > I had the same problem and got the spine centered better by adjusting > the spine/frontbow angle and tweaking the rear side bows. Otherwise > it might make the rollers bind as it starts going back at an angle. > > >If I set a straight-edge on the turtledeck on the centerline, should > it be > >above, below or in line with the canopy frame? Or one plexiglass > thickness > >below? > > I think the canopy frame should be even or just below the rear > topskin. > > >So far, I have resisted all urges to bend the canopy frame... > > I used a 3/4 conduit bender to just barely tweak the frame in a few > areas (well, a little at a time for several weeks actually) to make > the > bow of the canopy frame match the bow of the rollbar. I got it close > (I thought) and then when I split the plexi and cleco'ed the > windshield > on, I realized how much more it needed! So I kept tweaking it to > match > and ended up to where I only needed a max of one nylon shim at any > screw hole. > > Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME > San Jose, CA Mounting the HS and VS on the fuselage... > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re:Edge Distance Flap Hinge.
Nothing is supposed to come out right, Bill. See how to deal with wing problems in the demo video ... You say: Suprise - When I removed the hinge - I did not have the edge distance I would have liked to have had on the bottom skin. Is the edge distance "legal"? If so, move on. If not, put in another row of rivets between but further in. If you can stand the sight of two sets of rivets, bondo out the bad ones. This is a learning project, right? I like what Jim Cone said, "Well, there's another reason why this won't be a show plane!" hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Re: First Flight
<< Well, after three and a half years of dreaming about being able to push the mic button and say "1DB on the roll", it finally happened for real yesterday. >> Dave Congradulations to you. You want to help rebuild an old, old RV-4 kit? Keep is all posted on how your flight test program goes, and happy flying. Regards Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Subject: Re: oil filter recess
Hello Gary, Oh I guess it was just the time thing rather than the bucks. When I got started on the firewall , it went so fast that I needed the box quick. If I could have got one from Vam's in a couple of days, I would have but I get about two week service on all small orders. I will probably not use C/s prop.The SS dog bowl really looks good. It looks a lot more professional than the square boxes do from Van's. If I were to use a C/S prop I think I would look for a dog bowl that was a lttle elongated to allow for the governor also, now that I see how it looks. Thanks for the reply, Phil Gary Zilik wrote: > > > I'm going to use the dog bowl in the fire wall for my oil filter > recess. > > Phil Sisson at Litchfield, IL RV6-200 > > > > Phil, > > Why not just spring for the box already built by Van's. Its only 25 > bucks and the > same amount of work. Also, someday you may decide to put a CS prop on > it. > > Gary Zilik > RV-6A s/n 22993 - Ready to fit wings for landing gear drilling. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Subject: Re: Welding
Craig, competent weldors are everywhere. Where are you located? Have you tried the local EAA chapter? Phil sisson Litchfield, IL Find some rag and tube builders and you will find someone among them who is a good weldor.Craig Hiers wrote: > > > Listers > Anybody know where, or who could do the welding modification on my > Flap weldment? I want to convert to electric flaps, but I'm having > trouble finding a competent welder. > > Craig Hiers > RV-4 N143CH > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel weight w/o wings
Yup! We've had our engine installed and on the gear w/o wings for some time and consider it a safe way to go. Warren Bishop RV-6 90% done, 90% to go n5lp wrote: > > I'm waiting for my engine to arrive and am wondering if I need to plan to > weight the aft fuselage. Is there a safe amount of weight on the > tailwheel of a 6 with the wings not installed and the engine installed? > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > Pacer N8025D > RV-6QME N441LP Reserved > > Waiting on Aerosport Power O-360 engine and Sensenich prop. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry E.\"Bud\" Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)gate.net>
Subject: Re: Empenage fairing!!!
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Please tell the respondent that I would be interested in the tail fairings also. I saw some very neat ones at Sun & Fun but they didn't offer them for sale. They were on the fastest RV-4 ---------- > From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Cc: gh334766(at)shellus.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Empenage fairing!!! > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 4:56 PM > > > > << Some time ago someone had a offer of a single layer copy of the supplied > fairing like Gil Alexander wrote that was included in this RVator. I > couldn't find in the archive, honest! I butchered my factory fairing trying > to get it to blend with the airplane. So I can't use it to make a copy now. > Who ever had that offer (I think remember who it was) can contact me at > harje(at)proaxis.com if you prefer. Thanks! > >> > I will have these available after May 11. Feel free to "remind" me that you > need one of these.... > > Check six! > Mark > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harry E.\"Bud\" Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)gate.net>
Subject: Re: Low Fuel Level Sensor
Date: Apr 27, 1998
SCAN THE PLANS PLEASE ---------- > From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Low Fuel Level Sensor > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 11:03 AM > > > >> How abount an optical sensor that is simply threaded through > >> the tank wall at the level were you wish the light to > >> come on? No moving parts. > > >> >I also want a low fuel indicator. A friend in The United Kingdom > >> >manufactures simple float switches. I should have them in a few weeks, > >> >the weight added will be less than 6 ounce for wire, sensors and lights. > > >Jim Bede had a great idea on one his ships.... he took four plexiglas rods > >cut them to different lengths and shape the end in the tank at 45 degrees. > > As the fuel level left each rod it would change color. thus showing the > >amount remaining in the tank. The other method is to stick you finger in > >the tank.... that's to do at 170 plus mph. > > It was the BD-5, and there were *6* plexi rods of varying length cut to a > cone type point on one end, and cemeted together and then cut off flat at > 45 degrees on the other end and cemeted to a small square of plexi sheet. > It works great in the day time. > > I have the plans if anyone would like to see them. I could scan them and > put them on the web if interest is there for them. > > > > > Bob Steward, A&P IA > AA-1B N8978L > AA-5A N1976L > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Philip A Lehrke" <plehrke(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Drill, debur, dimple, then remove plastic?
Date: Apr 27, 1998
There was some discussion last month on the sequence of drilling, deburring, and dimpling. Up to now I have been drilling, removing plastic, deburring, then dimpling. This has been for small parts and have found that if I removed the plastic before deburring I get a better debur as it does not get interfered with by the shredded plastic at the edge of the hole. I am getting to the skins where I want to keep the plastic on until after deburring to protect the alclad while dimpling. My question is when do you remove the plastic that protects the alclad; before deburring or after dimpling? Phil Lehrke RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com>
Subject: F-675 on RV6
Currently have this rearmost top fuselage skin ratcheted down pretty tight prepatory to making my "map" on the inside for skin drilling. Although I have spacer blocks under the straps, it looks like the skin is gonna pooch down a bit when I rivet that center rib (687) that goes down the plane's spine. Any of y'all put a shim in there? Jim New Mexico ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Subject: Fuel Tank Stiffeners
Don't ask why, but does it really matter if the fuel tank stiffeners face fore or aft? Bill 80555 tanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Re: First Flight
Congratulations! Isn't it a GREAT feeling? I just completed my 25 hours yesterday and believe me, it gets better each and every hour! Walt Hastings RV-6A N79WH BTW: Where are you based? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wndwlkr711 <Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS
One RV-6 at S & F had a single, 50 watt halogen light in the lower cowl. He only used it for taxi but said it worked great. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: F-675 on RV6
James K. Hurd wrote: > > Currently have this rearmost top fuselage skin ratcheted down pretty > tight prepatory to making my "map" on the inside for skin drilling. > Although I have spacer blocks under the straps, it looks like the skin > is gonna pooch down a bit when I rivet that center rib (687) that goes > down the plane's spine. Any of y'all put a shim in there? > > Jim New Mexico > Jim, I found that I had much better success with the fuselage skins by drilling the substructure first with a 1/16" drill in the distances called for in the blueprints. By doing the drilling first and then overlaying the skins you won't have to mark the skin , remove and drill it, and then remount the skins and then hope that nothing has moved so that you miss the flange or worse - drill into free air through a flange releif coutout. The skin can be back drilled and you will only have to mount the skins and align them once. occasionally you will notice that the bulkheads do not follow the skin contour and a shim will be needed to fill the gap. this is quite acceptable. Just remember to get a longer rivet in the holes that you shim. Another trick is to use a soft face hammer and 'bump' out any rivets that dimpled the skin in to far. Just hit hard enough to lift the rivet and surrounding skin to a smooth finish. Hope that this helps. Your bird WILL FLY one day so keep plugging along. Doug Murray RV-6 - on gear and working on engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@iis-intellect.com>
Subject: governors
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Can anyone tell me what make/model of prop governors fit best for an RV-6 with the vanilla hartzell from van's? I need to tell my engine shop what governor to put on before it ships next week (O-360A1A.). Hartzell? Woodward? Which works? Thanks, Bob Japundza Network Consultant, MCSE ImageMax, Inc. Carmel, IN bjapundza@iis-intellect.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Bill Costello <bcos(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight
> >Well, after three and a half years of dreaming about being able to push the >mic button and say "1DB on the roll", it finally happened for real >yesterday. With myself at the controls, My RV-6, sn 23744, N601DB slipped >the surly bonds of earth for the first time. A huge CONGRATULATIONS Dave !!!!! Bill Costello ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Mark Nielsen <Mark.Nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Sump & Starter Gear/Ring
> >Can anyone tell me a good source for acquiring an O-235/O-290/O-320 oil >sump and a starter gear ring for my engine? Obviously not worried about >keeping it "certified." > I just replaced the starter ring gear on my O-320. I purchased the gear from Mattituck 800-624-6680. The cost was $105 plus shipping for a fine tooth gear (149 teeth). Mark RV-6; 182 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel weight w/o wings
Larry: My RV-6 sat in my garage with engine and CS prop installed, sans wings and empennage, for many weeks. The only warning is that it you raise the tail so that the fuselage is in the 'level flight' position, the tail gets mighty light, and then I would use some sort of weight back there. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying > >I'm waiting for my engine to arrive and am wondering if I need to plan to >weight the aft fuselage. Is there a safe amount of weight on the >tailwheel of a 6 with the wings not installed and the engine installed? > > >Larry Pardue >Carlsbad, NM > >Pacer N8025D >RV-6QME N441LP Reserved > >Waiting on Aerosport Power O-360 engine and Sensenich prop. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy frame fit questions
Hal: >[When I make] the (closed) frame front bow parallel with the >roll over bar, the back end is >too high. So I wonder, do they really need to come out parallel? No, they do not (I assume you mean parallel vertically (as seen from the side), not horizontally (as seen from above) >When I get the rear slider track rail mounted on the a/c centerline, >the canopy >frame is off center. If I set the track off about a 1/4 inch, it is okay. I had to tweak the rear corners of my canopy frame in order to get it to sit centered and square. I understand that's common. > >If I set a straight-edge on the turtledeck on the centerline, should it be >above, below or in line with the canopy frame? Or one plexiglass thickness >below? One plexiglass thickness below is the closeest approximation you can get. A more accurate statement would be: "With the plexi mounted/clamped to the canopy frame, a ruler oriented fore/aft and laid on the plexi and protruding aft of the canopy frame should contact the turtledeck skin about 4-6 inches aft of the canopy frame." >So far, I have resisted all urges to bend the canopy frame. Body men can adjust >car doors by putting a block in the hinge opening and pushing the door against >it thus bending the door. Amateurs try this and I pretty much ruined a door! Bending the canopy frame *is* a complex task. When you bend it in one place, it changes shape in about three places. At the front bow (the one that rests against the rollbar): Resist bending it unless it is to wide. If it is too tall on one or both sides, trim the ends. If it is too short, use shims between the frame and the plexi. At the back bow: I think that some minor bending is a must. The dang thing is just not shaped right. I used a pipe bender, and made some gradual tweaks. Mine did not come out perfect, but it's not bad. >Is there a need for rubber seals between canopy frame and roll bar? I'm going to try running a bead of RTV in there and see what happens. >What >is really important here? At the front, not much. The fiberglass 'cuff' that covers the canopy/windshield split will hide a lot of imperfections. At the back, it's much tougher. The objective is to make it so that the trailing edge of the rear canopy skirts will contact the turtledeck skin. If you want to telephone meso we can talk about this, please feel free: 602-931-6605. I'm in Phoenix, Arizona. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy frame fit questions
Hal Kempthorne wrote: > > Hi all, > > I cut 3/16th inch out of the left front bow of my sliding canopy frame and now > it fits much better. Yet some things are unclear to me. > > What really needs to fit what and how well at this point? When I try to make > the (closed) frame front bow parallel with the roll over bar, the back end is > too high. So I wonder, do they really need to come out parallel? > I would re shim the windshield bow to allow the parallel relationsihip with the slider bow and give a proper height at the rear. This will make the rest of the fitting a lot easier. If you do achieve a good paralell then you probably won't need any seals to get an air and water tight fit at that junction. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Subject: Re: governors
<< Can anyone tell me what make/model of prop governors fit best for an RV-6 with the vanilla hartzell from van's? I need to tell my engine shop what governor to put on before it ships next week (O-360A1A.). Hartzell? Woodward? Which works? >> I have a new/rebuilt Woodward 210490. $700 from EMI and it works great on my 6A with new O-360-A1A and Hartzell prop. You're really going to enjoy that ROC! -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy frame fit questions
<< If you do achieve a good paralell then you probably won't need any seals to get an air and water tight fit at that junction. >> And what better way to top off that beautiful 6/6A sliding canopy than to install the super nifty canopy skirt caps that I lovingly craft with my own hands. Try one, you'll like it. I form them of .032" thk 2024 sheet in a 50 ton press. You'll need one to win Grand Champion. Send $10 to Gary VanRemortel, 1963 Badgerwood Ln, Milpitas, CA 95035. Includes domestic shipping. I have about 30 of them left... then nada. Then you'll really kick your collective selves in the butt. End of commercial. Soon to be out of work, -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori <BSivori(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 25, 1998
Subject: Re: LANDING LIGHTS
<< Using a Jig Saw to make the cut-outs for the Duckworks Landing Lights would seem to me like a very difficult way to do it. If you would try a Dremel tool with a cutoff wheel in it, you will have outstanding, quick results, and with no danger of stress cracks >> Von, Thanks for the advice on the dremmel tool, its been sitting there all along but I never thought of using it for that. And your correct I would have been better off with the Dremmel vs Jig Saw. Bill lane I had a chance to fly before. It takes quite a plane to humble me. Want I really want people to know is that if a smaller cheaper engine can make an RV of any type affordable, than don't be afraid to go for it. All the handling qualities are still there, all speed and climb numbers are still in the same ballpark. So unless you have to be the big guy on the block, just get the plane flying. I've seen more than one potential RV build discourager by the price of an 0-360 engine. Just my thoughts on the subject Don Simmons N144DN RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Stiffeners
Date: Apr 28, 1998
>Don't ask why, but does it really matter if the fuel tank stiffeners face >fore or aft? > >Bill >80555 tanks Bill, As far as I'm concerned...it doesn't matter at all. But, make sure there is not going to be any issue with the sender float travel, or flop tube (if installed). I found it much easier to install the stiffeners with the "open" side facing aft. Enjoy the sealant...it's yummy on ice cream. :) Brian Denk -8 #379 tanks (still) and center section. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Drill, debur, dimple, then remove plastic?
Date: Apr 28, 1998
I take off the plastic along the rivet lines before deburring. I trim it off with an old soldering iron or with a sharp knife. I pull the plastic up so as not to scratch the skin. I leave the edges of the plastic ragged. The plastic keeps the skin from getting scratched, abraded and keeps peoples' fingers off large areas of it. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Twin Cities Rv Forum
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Larry: Details are attached to this message. Hope to see you then. Just got back from a trip Doug Location is the Red Wing Airport. Do you still have your March newsletter? Map is in there. Here are directions To Red Wing Airport: From MSP/STP area: From I-494 in Newport, so SE on US 61/10 to where US 10 branches to Prescott, WI. Go east through Prescott. Turn south on Rte 63. Turn east on WI State RD 35 to the Red Wing Airport. Or take US 61 SE into Red Wing. Follow the signs to Wisconsin (Rte 63). Go across the river and turn east on WI State Rd 35. (The airport is in Wisconsin). To the Banquet: From the airport, go west on WI State RD 35. Turn left (south) on Rte 63 back into Red Wing. Turn right at Bush Street. The St. James is at the corner of Bush and Main. Free parking at the parking ramp on Bush St. The banquet is in the Victorian Dining Room. -----Original Message----- From: Larry.K.Daudt <B747400(at)compuserve.com> Date: Friday, April 24, 1998 5:52 PM Subject: RV-List: Twin Cities Rv Forum > >Doug, Pleeze verify, location and time for those of us who have >forgotten.Larry > > > > > > name="Forum Info.txt" filename="Forum Info.txt" 4th Annual Twin Cities Rv Forum Sat. May 2, 1998 Red Wing, MN (RGK) The Twin Cities RV Forum is scheduled for Sat May 2, at the Red Wing, MN Airport (40 miles SE of MSP). Times are 0800 to 1700. An approximate schedule is: 0800-0845 Registration, coffee, juice, donuts 0845-0900 Intro and Welcome 0900-1200 Speakers 1200-1300 Lunch 1300-1500 Speakers 1500-1700 Van's Aircraft, John Morgan Speakers: Paul Irbeck (professional RV builder) - corrosion control for the RV Bob Nuckolls (pres. AeroElectric Connection) - RV electrical systems Paul McReynolds (15 RVs built) - Rigging your RV Paul Peterson (professional engineer) - engine operation Mitch Robbins (former NTSB investigator and now NWA flight safety mgr) - RV safety issues Breakout sessions: DJ Lauritsen - RV upholstery and interior design Scott Smith - RV insurance program Afternoon guest speaker: John Morgan, technical support, Van's Aircraft. John will update us on the latest developments at Van's. He is planning to bring either the #2 RV-8 or the prototype RV-8A (tri-gear). During the day we will have door prize giveaways each hour, a People's Choice competion for best RV, a workshop centered around the construction of an RV-6 vertical stab (to be given away as our Grand Prize). Product information will be on display, a mini-fly market will be available for those who want to sell items, a bulletin board for want ad postings. As many RVs will be inside as possible with the remainder on the ramp. Of course fly-ins of any kind will be more than welcome. The evening banquet will begin at 7:00pm. Nice location at the St. James Hotel which is an elegantly restored turn-of-the-century establishment. Guest speaker is Bryan Moon, aviation explorer, historian, and artist. One of his prints will be given away as a door prize. Red Wing is a beautiful Mississippi river town with lots of restaurants, B&Bs, art galleries, antique and pottery shops. The airport is 3 miles from town. We have 10 rooms reserved at the St. James for those wanting to make a real weekend of it. Rooms are very, nice and available until April 10th. $115 per night (call 1-800-252-1875 and ask for RV Forum reservations). Other accommodations in town include: AmericInn Motel 1819 Old Main 800-634-3444 $73.90 / double Days Inn Hwys 61 & 63 800-325-2525 $53.99 / single, $70.99 / double Candlelight Inn B&B 818 w. 3rd St. 612-388-8034 Golden Lantern B&B 721 East Ave. 612-388-3315 $89 - 125 includes breakfast Parkway Motel 3425 Hwy 61 N 800-762-0934 $33 - 51 (1 to 4 people) Pratt Taber Inn B&B 706 W. 4th St. 612-388-5945 $89 - 110 (includes breakfast) Red Carpet Inn 232 Withers Harbor Dr. 612-388-1502 Treasure Island Casino 800-222-7077 Super 8 Motel Hwy 61 & Withers Hbr 612-388-0491 $57 - 69 Sterling Motel 612-388-3568 Rodeway Inn Hwy 61 & Withers Hbr 800-228-2000 $57 - 67 Cost: Forum fee (includes breakfast and lunch): $20 for the first family member $5 for each additional family member $5 for RV fly-in pilots Vendor fee: $20 table rental plus above admission achedule. =09 Banquet: $25/per person. For fly-ins we will provide transportation to and from your hotel. Also information on the forum is avilable at the MN Wing Website: http://www.showpage.org/rv-grp Below is a registration form. If you think you can attend, please consider mailing this ahead of time. It will help us in our planning. Thanks, Doug Weiler, pres, MN Wing 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com *********************************************************** Pre- Registration - 4th Annual Twin Cities RV Builder's Forum Saturday, May 2, 1998, 8am to 5pm Please print: Name: _____________________________________________________ Address: __________________________________________________ City, State, Zip: __________________________________________ Phone: ______________________________ Forum admission (includes coffee, donuts, lunch and beverage): =09 $20 first family member $ 5 each additional family member (adult or child) $ 5 per person for fly-in RV pilots and passengers Forum attendees: 1st family member: _________ Additional family members: ________ Yes, I plan to fly my RV and would like to display it. _________ (RV-3,4,6,6A) Send me a tourist packet on the Red Wing area __________ Evening banquet reservations (6pm cash bar, dinner 7pm):=09 $25 each includes entree, salad, potato, beverage, and dessert. Please indicate number of each menu choice: ______ Old World Pork seasoned and topped with five pepper glaze ______ Breast of Chicken Supreme Vegetarian or special needs menu items also available. Please advise. Please mail to (prepayment is not required, but would be nice): Jim Lenzmeier 65 15th Ave SW New Brighton, MN 55112 (612-633-8488) email: jndlenzmeier(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Subject: Re: Drill, debur, dimple, then remove plastic?
You won't be able to make it work for two reasons: 1) AL shavings tend to pile up under the plastic around the holes and 2) the plastic itself hinders making a good dimple. What many people do is cut away a strip of plastic from the rivet lines; I believe a soldering iron is used to part the plastic without scratching the skins. Since I am going to paint my A/C, I have not worried about it. I just peel the skins after drilling. PatK - RV-6A Philip A Lehrke wrote: > > I am > getting to the skins where I want to keep the plastic on until after > deburring to protect the alclad while dimpling. My question is when do you > remove the plastic that protects the alclad; before deburring or after > dimpling? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Empenage fairing!!!
A fiberglass guy that I know told me that it should take no longer than about 3-4 hours (not including drying time, of course) to do by a skilled professional. For $15/hour, I think it might not be a bad idea for a custom professional job. He told me that any boat/corvette repair shop should have someone that you could hire on the side.... Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Canopy Frame > >Please tell the respondent that I would be interested in the tail fairings >also. I saw some very neat ones at Sun & Fun but they didn't offer them >for sale. They were on the fastest RV-4 > >---------- >> From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Cc: gh334766(at)shellus.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Empenage fairing!!! >> Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 4:56 PM >> >> >> >> << Some time ago someone had a offer of a single layer copy of the >supplied >> fairing like Gil Alexander wrote that was included in this RVator. I >> couldn't find in the archive, honest! I butchered my factory fairing >trying >> to get it to blend with the airplane. So I can't use it to make a copy >now. >> Who ever had that offer (I think remember who it was) can contact me at >> harje(at)proaxis.com if you prefer. Thanks! >> >> >> I will have these available after May 11. Feel free to "remind" me that >you >> need one of these.... >> >> Check six! >> Mark >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brad Bundy" <bundyb(at)infowest.com>
Subject: Bernie Warnke's passing
Date: Apr 28, 1998
On Monday morning, 6am April 27, 1998 an other great contributor to the world of experimental aircraft, passed away in his hospital bed in Tucson AZ. Bernie had a zest for life and loved aviation. Many of us have benefited from his innovative designs in what he called the "Almost Constant Speed" propeller. His wood propellers have pulled many aircraft through the air, and inspired others to develop their own designs to help fill the demand. A memorial service will be held in his honor on April 29, 1998 at 11am in Hudgel's Funeral Home, 1335 South Swan Rd. Tucson AZ 85732. Tel.No. 520-747-2525. Please let others know who would be interested. It has been suggested by his daughter Margie Warnke that rather than sending flowers and such, make a donation to the Cancer Society or to EAA. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: F-675 on RV6
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> it looks like the skin >is gonna pooch down a bit when I rivet that center rib (687) that goes >down the plane's spine. Any of y'all put a shim in there? > >Jim New Mexico Jim, I put a shim there that was pretty thick and some small shims a couple of other places under the top skins. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6QME N441LP Reserved Waiting on Aerosport Power O-360 engine and Sensenich prop. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Drill, debur, dimple, then remove plastic?
Phil, I use an old soldering iron to remove the plastic along the rivet lines. If you have an old discard soldering iron you can round and smooth the tip so that you can draw it along the aluminum without fear of scratching the surface. I remove the plasic before I drill/debur. Mike Wills RV-4 (fuse) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil My question is when do you >remove the plastic that protects the alclad; before deburring or after >dimpling? > >Phil Lehrke >RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Let me add a "PS" to the note I sent yesterday. Does anyone have a long oil filler tube and dip stick that they would like to either trade or sell? If so, let me know. Thanks, Bob ---------- > From: Robert Cabe <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 7:41 AM > > Mark, > > I have the short oil filler tube and a new dip stick. I need the long tube > and dip stick for the O-320 on my RV-6.. Do you want to trade? The short > tube is about 6 1/2" long. I think the long one is about 10" long. If you > are interested in a trade, drop me a line off the list. > robert.cabe(at)usaa.com > > Bob Cabe > San Antonio > > > ---------- > > From: Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: RV-List: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320 > > Date: Saturday, April 25, 1998 10:41 PM > > > > > > Has anyone had to shorten the dipstick tube on their 0-320 engines to > allow > > clearance between the top of the dipstick and the cowl. This is an old > style > > cowl which uses the longer prop adapter....if that makes any difference.I > > visited my friend and his RV-4 project and his dipstick does contact the > > cowl....he wants to build a new tube and shorten the dipstick...any > comments ! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Chris Hill <hill(at)ti.com>
Subject: First time shimming
I'm working on the HS of the RV-8. I'm at the point of mounting the front spar to the ribs... and well it looks like I'll need to shim. Of course I wonder why the fit isn't right, but after double checking everything (and noting the manual says shim if needed) decide to press on. My question is: is there anything wrong with using two shims instead of one... I've cut a small square of 32 mil trim and stuck it in there, but it's not quit enough. it appears I'll need two pieces of 32 mil (I think it was about 1/16 to 1/8 off). Other than needing a longer rivit is there any problem with doing this? RV-8 - HS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Empenage fairing!!!
Paul, You'd be extremly lucky to find ANY skilled professional for $15/hr. Remember, you get what you pay for. Besides, it's not a tough job, and it's more fun to learn about how the compost guys do it anyway. Laird (Finishing a custom motorcycle paint job, at more than 15/hr) RV-6 22923 (waiting on the finish kit) _______________________________________________________________________________
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Tue, Apr 28, 1998 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: Empenage fairing!!!
A fiberglass guy that I know told me that it should take no longer than about 3-4 hours (not including drying time, of course) to do by a skilled professional. For $15/hour, I think it might not be a bad idea for a custom professional job. He told me that any boat/corvette repair shop should have someone that you could hire on the side.... Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Canopy Frame > >Please tell the respondent that I would be interested in the tail fairings >also. I saw some very neat ones at Sun & Fun but they didn't offer them >for sale. They were on the fastest RV-4 > >---------- >> From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Cc: gh334766(at)shellus.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Empenage fairing!!! >> Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 4:56 PM >> >> >> >> << Some time ago someone had a offer of a single layer copy of the >supplied >> fairing like Gil Alexander wrote that was included in this RVator. I >> couldn't find in the archive, honest! I butchered my factory fairing >trying >> to get it to blend with the airplane. So I can't use it to make a copy >now. >> Who ever had that offer (I think remember who it was) can contact me at >> harje(at)proaxis.com if you prefer. Thanks! >> >> >> I will have these available after May 11. Feel free to "remind" me that >you >> need one of these.... >> >> Check six! >> Mark >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Fuel Tank Stiffeners
> Don't ask why, but does it really matter if the fuel tank stiffeners face > fore or aft? Actually I installed them backwards intentionally, on the advice of an experienced builder. Makes it a little easier to buck the rivets (i.e. you can see them). Randall Henderson, RV-6 randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Re: Drill, debur, dimple, then remove plastic?
Philip A Lehrke wrote: My question is when do you remove the plastic that protects the alclad; before deburring or after dimpling? I remove the plastic on the INSIDE of the skin before dimpling. If you leave the plastic on, the inside die (female) cuts a little ring around the dimple, and then when you remove the inside plastic, there is a small plastic ring aroung each dimple. It hard to notice and each one needs to be pickes off with a sharp awl. Keep the plastic on the outside while dimpling to prevent scratching the alumimun with the male dimple die. Then remove it all (with the help of a heat gun) or remove 3/4 inch strips in way of the rivet lines. Cut the plastic using a solder gun with a "rope cutting tip" smoothed so it does not scratch the aluminum. Use just enough pressure to cut the plastic but not scratch the aluminum. I use 3/4 wood strips clamped over the rivet lines to act as guides. Practice on a piece of scrap. Richard Reynolds, RV-6A, Norfolk, VA, starting fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Bernie Warnke's passing
From: seaok71302(at)Juno.com (mike a adams)
Not much Time to organize; but maybe some AZ RVers could quickly put together a missing man flyover..... > > > Mike Adams/2316/-4 > > >On Monday morning, 6am April 27, 1998 an other great contributor to the world of experimental aircraft, passed away in his hospital bed in Tucson AZ. Bernie had a zest for life and loved aviation. Many of us have benefited from his innovative designs in what he called the "Almost Constant Speed" propeller. His wood propellers have pulled many aircraft through the air, and inspired others to develop their own designs to help fill the demand. >A memorial service will be held in his honor on April 29, 1998 at 11am >in >Hudgel's Funeral Home, 1335 South Swan Rd. Tucson AZ 85732. >Tel.No. >520-747-2525. Please let others know who would be interested. >It has been suggested by his daughter Margie Warnke that rather than > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EAGLECLIFF <EAGLECLIFF(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Subject: Re: RVs in flying clubs
where are you ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
Date: Apr 28, 1998
I will need to correct for sweep-forward in my wings, which are mounted at this time for drilling the landing gear in my RV-6A. I have a " sweep-forward in one wing and 1 1/8" sweep-forward in the other. For you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? The reason I would like to know is that I purposefully left the rear spar attach brackets overly long when I built the F-605. I will need to file them down to let the wing get closer to the fuselage. If I know roughly how much to file off, I will only need to dismount and mount the wings once. What a dream that would be! Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont Fuselage upside down, wings on, drilling landing gear ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Empenage fairing!!!
<< A fiberglass guy that I know told me that it should take no longer than about 3-4 hours (not including drying time, of course) to do by a skilled professional. >> Paul, I would love to meet the guy who can manufacture one of these from scratch in 3-4 hours. You would be lucky to get it done in 3 to 4 days. If you had a mold or a flimsy to start with the time would definatly be much shorter, but without it is a very time consuming job. Just preping for the fiberglass to release, making some sort of mold, and final cleanup is a good size job. Once removed from the airplane trimming and finish sanding to the point of having no pinholes is another long job. I wish you all the luck in the world in finding someone to do it for you. Ryan Bendure ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Shelby.Smith(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: RV6 Weight and Balance
> >By the way, I saw something really neat at Sun N' Fun in the Sun 100... The >props on the Questair Ventures were leaving contrails as they accelerated down >the runway for takeoff. Impressive.... > >Thanks, > >Kyle Boatright > Kyle, Got my pictures back. Doesn't show the condensation sock, more of a corkscrew of condensation engulfing the plane - pretty cool still. Shelby in Nashville. er htna that he has had no problems. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Chrome Plating rudder pedals
From: lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Apr 28, 1998
>I am interested in getting my rudder pedals chrome plated. A local >company gave me a quote of $50. Is that a reasonable price? >Patty Gillies >D020205(at)vm.sc.edu Patty, It sounds like a great price to me, but the only experience I have had at plating quotes in the past 20 yrs was recently I received a quote to brass plate a floor lamp--$200.00. Would you send me the name and address of this company please. Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: First time shimming
> >I'm working on the HS of the RV-8. I'm at the point of mounting the >front spar to the ribs... and well it looks like I'll need to shim. >Of course I wonder why the fit isn't right, but after double checking >everything (and noting the manual says shim if needed) decide to press >on. My question is: is there anything wrong with using two shims instead >of one... I've cut a small square of 32 mil trim and stuck it in there, but >it's not quit enough. it appears I'll need two pieces of 32 mil (I think >it was about 1/16 to 1/8 off). Other than needing a longer rivit is there >any problem with doing this? > >RV-8 - HS > Chris, I hope there is not, because I've done it in several places! BTW, this is not the only place you will need to shim... Go for it if necessary. One note on this particular area... Don't pass judgement on whether or not you need to shim here until you are sure the rear spar is absolutely straight (ie: in the jig). I thought I was going to have to shim mine, but once jigged up and straight, no problem. Right on the money! Keep at it! > > > Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Wing Spars ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net>
Subject: First Flight
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Well done, that "First Flight Feeling" has got to be one of the highs in life. Hope to see you at Oshkosh. John Cocker. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
> >I will need to correct for sweep-forward in my wings, which are mounted >at this time for drilling the landing gear in my RV-6A. I have a >" >sweep-forward in one wing and 1 1/8" sweep-forward in the other. For >you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the >rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the >wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket >will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? Stephen, The maths is simple. The ratio is the ratio of the chord to the wingspan (as measured from fuselage to tip. If the wing is 4 times as long as it is wide then moving the rear link in 1/4" will move the tip back 1". Note that the "chord" here is the distance from front spar to rear spar not the aerodynamic chord. Cheers, Leo Davies leo(at)icn.su.oz.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: dougm@physio-control.com (Doug Medema)
Subject: Re: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
> > I will need to correct for sweep-forward in my wings, which are mounted > at this time for drilling the landing gear in my RV-6A. I have a " > sweep-forward in one wing and 1 1/8" sweep-forward in the other. For > you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the > rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the > wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket > will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? > I too will need to correct for some sweep-forward on my wings, roughly in the same ball park as yours. I am quite concerned about the loading effects on the rear spar that this will create. My scenario is: slide in the wings, push some bolts through the main spar attach (F604??) as close to the side of the plane as possible, line up the wing end to end for 0 sweep, verify incidence, then drill the rear spar holes. Now, when I actually mount the wings, I repeat the process, but now insert the rear spar bolts, followed by all the rest of the main spar bolts. Tightening the center bolts on the main spar will put a "tear-out" force on the rear spar bolts. This tear-out force is what worries me. Should shims be made for the main spar such that this situation doesn't arise, or are any tear-out forces small enough not to matter? When I look at the wing structure, it seems that these tear-out forces could be quite large. Have other people worried about this? What did you do about it? Any comments Scott M.? Doug Medema RV-6A -- ready to start sliding canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: 5 speed carpet
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Dear wife, kind and noble lady, gone for day, but give faithful servant many orders for the day. Come home later, see not much done , ask "What you do all day you lethargic retired bum ? " ....I say " today, kind lady, day of rest, and besides, RV call, and faithful pupil of RV must respond to keep RV happy. I go to field, fly RV. I do loop, I do roll, I very happy like kid out of school. Friends say, "how fast carpet ?..you have 5 speed ? " I say, "Oh great RV, God of wind and sky, have many speed and caprice". Today, I meet my first Comanche, we fly home to same field. I call, he call, we both 6 mile South and closing fast. Tower asks, "Can you see fast homebuilt "? Comanche say, "s*** yes, I'm behind and getting farther." Both clear to land, I am back at stable, look up and see his landing lights, he just coming now...RV sweet friend and getting sweeter. Shall I say same for kind and noble lady? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: alu flange
Listers Does any know where I can get a 3/4" alu flange? I can get 3/4" scat tube, but it's no good if I don't have anything to hook it to. Craig Hiers Tallahassee, FL. RV-4 N143CH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Empenage fairing!!!
RV4131rb wrote: > > > > << A fiberglass guy that I know told me that it should take no longer than > about 3-4 hours (not including drying time, of course) to do by a skilled > professional. >> > Paul, > I would love to meet the guy who can manufacture one of these from > scratch in 3-4 hours. You would be lucky to get it done in 3 to 4 days. If you > had a mold or a flimsy to start with the time would definatly be much shorter, > but without it is a very time consuming job. Just preping for the fiberglass > to release, making some sort of mold, and final cleanup is a good size job. > Once removed from the airplane trimming and finish sanding to the point of > having no pinholes is another long job. I wish you all the luck in the world > in finding someone to do it for you. > Ryan Bendure > It took me two day's to make mine, and it fits like a glove. Gil's method works like a charm ( thanks Gil ). The down side is that it's messy and I had a layer of fiberglass dust on everything in my hanger. A small price to pay. Craig Hiers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net>
Subject: 5 speed carpet
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Corsiar has the right idea. Before building, the selection of the right wife is the key to the whole project, and Magic Carpet is a very suitable name for an RV. Last week I flew 24 hours, down to Sun n Fun, then across 200 miles of sea to Gt Harbour Cay, Bahamas, where we had a meeting of the Buttonville Flying Club, 1200 miles from home base. We had 10 aircraft, and nineteen people attending on this small rock. I thought we might have trouble with the US customs on the way back to Ft Pierce, but they were friendly and efficient as ever. Problems ? None really, I needed air in the tires - why do the Van tires need air so often ? With the wheel pants, I have drilled a 1" hole over the stem, and Cleveland Tools now sell a 5" extension, so it is a lot easier to inflate. The other potential problem is I seem to get a lot of oil on the bottom of the fuselage, either from the crankcase, vent, or possibly from the wet vacuum pump, tho it is sent to a separator. Anyone have any ideas. ? I met another member of the RV List in Winchester (OKV), with a very good looking RV6, I really tried to remember his name, but it has been accidentally deleted from my bio-hard-drive.----- [John Cocker] I ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: First time shimming
Before you shim anything, fit the skin to the skeleton to make sure they line up. Don't trust the measurements on the plans. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe Jon Elford wrote: > > > > > >I'm working on the HS of the RV-8. I'm at the point of mounting the > >front spar to the ribs... and well it looks like I'll need to shim. > >Of course I wonder why the fit isn't right, but after double checking > >everything (and noting the manual says shim if needed) decide to press > >on. My question is: is there anything wrong with using two shims instead > >of one... I've cut a small square of 32 mil trim and stuck it in there, but > >it's not quit enough. it appears I'll need two pieces of 32 mil (I think > >it was about 1/16 to 1/8 off). Other than needing a longer rivit is there > >any problem with doing this? > > > >RV-8 - HS > > > Chris, > > I hope there is not, because I've done it in several places! BTW, this is > not the only place you will need to shim... Go for it if necessary. > > One note on this particular area... Don't pass judgement on whether or not > you need to shim here until you are sure the rear spar is absolutely > straight (ie: in the jig). I thought I was going to have to shim mine, but > once jigged up and straight, no problem. Right on the money! > > Keep at it! > > > > > > > > Jon Elford > RV6 #25201 > Wing Spars > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com>
Subject: Re: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Doug, The forces to move the wing aft should be low. Any resistance to moving aft is likely an interference on the aft spar with the fuselage stubs - possibly where the end rib rivets to the spar. I had this problem and Vans said that it would take some force to move the wing aft. When I did this I sheared a rivet off from the rib attachment as the spar stubs. Once this problem was cleared up the wing moved easily with emphasis on easily. Good luck Dan Morris RV6 now painted -----Original Message----- From: Doug Medema <dougm@physio-control.com> Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 4:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move? > >> >> I will need to correct for sweep-forward in my wings, which are mounted >> at this time for drilling the landing gear in my RV-6A. I have a " >> sweep-forward in one wing and 1 1/8" sweep-forward in the other. For >> you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the >> rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the >> wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket >> will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? >> >I too will need to correct for some sweep-forward on my wings, roughly >in the same ball park as yours. I am quite concerned about the loading >effects on the rear spar that this will create. My scenario is: slide >in the wings, push some bolts through the main spar attach (F604??) as close >to the side of the plane as possible, line up the wing end to end for 0 >sweep, verify incidence, then drill the rear spar holes. Now, when I actually >mount the wings, I repeat the process, but now insert the rear spar bolts, >followed by all the rest of the main spar bolts. Tightening the center bolts >on the main spar will put a "tear-out" force on the rear spar bolts. This >tear-out force is what worries me. Should shims be made for the main spar >such that this situation doesn't arise, or are any tear-out forces small enough >not to matter? When I look at the wing structure, it seems that these tear-out >forces could be quite large. > >Have other people worried about this? What did you do about it? Any comments >Scott M.? > >Doug Medema >RV-6A -- ready to start sliding canopy > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net>
Subject: Flyin in S. Illinois
The second annual Rec.Aviation.Homebuilt annual flyin is scheduled for the weekend of May 15,16 and 17 at the Pickneyville-DuQuoin, IL (PJY) airport. Its not an RV flyin but many will probably show up. Details are available at the following URL. http://aviator.cwis.siu.edu/john/ -- Abby Razer Barbara Razer Molly the Dog and Chet Razer razer(at)midwest.net http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net>
Subject: Re: 5 speed carpet
Wonderful poetry, can an RV outrun a twin commanche? -- Abby Razer Barbara Razer Molly the Dog and Chet Razer razer(at)midwest.net http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: jacquelyn eastburn <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: 5 speed carpet
Great stories but remember all of this is going to an already over burden archives. Jim Eastburn Hillsboro, Oregon RV-8 Ser.#80079 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Subject: Re: 5 speed carpet
<< Last week I flew 24 hours, down to Sun n Fun, then across 200 miles of sea to Gt Harbour Cay, Bahamas, where we had a meeting of the Buttonville Flying Club, 1200 miles from home base. >> I think it is neat when folks share their flying experiences with us builders, it helps us keep focused on why we are spending such an inordinate amount of time building a magic carpet. Surely this magic carpet must have taken the long way around since it was only 1200 miles from home and it flew for 24 hours. That works out to be 100mph average for a straight line out and back. Is there more to this story? Bernie Kerr 6A fuselage, 20 miles Sw of Ft Pierce ( next time you are in the area, stop at Treasure Coast Airpark and say hello) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: Re: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
> I will need to correct for sweep-forward in my wings, which are mounted > at this time for drilling the landing gear in my RV-6A. I have a " > sweep-forward in one wing and 1 1/8" sweep-forward in the other. For > you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the > rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the > wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket > will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? > If I know > roughly how much to file off, I will only need to dismount and mount the > wings once. What a dream that would be! Stephen, The amount you need to remove can be easily calculated. Simply take your 3/4" dimension (out at the wing tip) times the distance from the forward spar to the rear spar, divided by the distance from the root to the tip. It will be something around one fifth of the 3/4", or about .15". Alex Peterson, Maple Grove, MN 6A (made a mistake - used a spread sheet to add up remaining items) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 28, 1998
Subject: Re: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
"Stephen J. Soule" asked: >I will need to correct for sweep-forward in my wings, which are mounted >at this time for drilling the landing gear in my RV-6A. I have a >" >sweep-forward in one wing and 1 1/8" sweep-forward in the other. For >you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the >rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the >wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket >will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? One answer was: >The maths is simple. The ratio is the ratio of the chord to the wingspan >(as measured from fuselage to tip. If the wing is 4 times as long as it is >wide then moving the rear link in 1/4" will move the tip back 1". Note >that the "chord" here is the distance from front spar to rear spar not the >aerodynamic chord. Not to pick nits here, but I think the above answer is slightly off, and since this is an important area.... I think the ratio is that of of the distance between the main spar and the rear spar and the span. If the distance between the spars is 2 feet, and the span is 10 feet, (a 1:5 ratio), every inch you move the rear spar attach point will move the wing 5 inches. Kyle ( I just made junk out of 1 ea: F-622L & F-624) Boatright ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 28, 1998
From: ron calhoun <roncal(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Tailwheel weight w/o wings
Is there a safe amount of weight on the >tailwheel of a 6 with the wings not installed and the engine installed? Larry, to my suprise one night I walked into the shop and saw the tail of my rv-4 in the ceiling. It was setting fine the night before. Since I let my black lab spend nights in the shop, and I knew how he likes to roll around on the shop floor, I knew he had rolled under the fuselage and pushed just enough to get it up and away. Of course, I have no proof. He still sleeps in my shop and no harm to the plane. I did tie down the tail. Ron Calhoun Palestine, Tx RV-4 Installing engine, instruments ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
Stephen J. Soule wrote: > . For > you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the > rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the > wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket > will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? Steve, Without using some trigonometry, calculus and judicious use of polar coordinates I used the guessing game. The distance from the rear mount to the spar is about 2' while the distance from tip to root is about 8.5 feet. This gives a ratio of about 2:8.5 or 1:4 move the rear spar mount in 1/4 inch and the tip moves 1 inch. This worked real well for me and I used my cutoff wheel on my die grinder to remove about 3/16 " . I also had to remove my spacer in the f-605C and cut it down some. could have taken some of the rear wing spar but I hated to cut on that unless necessary. I also had to notch the rear spar to clear the fuselage skin. This is shown on DWG 14. I swept the wings back and am just holding them in place with c-clamps at this time and will hold off on drilling them until I get the bottom skin on. I notice that without the bottom seat skin that the f-604 bulkhead wants to twist forward at the bottom center. I guess one could cleco the skin in place and then set the exact wing position. Sorry to hear that your not close to denver I went ahead and heated and bent the left gear mount forward tube and all came out well. The top coat of paint burned off but the Vari-Prime stayed put. Tough as nails. Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
> I am quite concerned about the loading > effects on the rear spar that this will create. I don't think that the outward loading on the rear spar is of any significace while flying. Think about how much drag is created by the wings and pushing backwards. Lots of inward loading in flight. I would shy away from shimming the main spar Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move?
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Thanks for the reply Gary. Actually I realized after I posted the message that it would take simple geometry to solve the problem, not laborious trial and error. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Gary Zilik [SMTP:zilik(at)bewellnet.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 2:02 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6 (RV4 too) How far will it move? Stephen J. Soule wrote: > . For > you who have been there before, what is the ratio of movement at the > rear spar attach bracket to the movement fore and aft at he end of the > wing? In other words, how much movement at the rear spar attach bracket > will I need to take in the present sweep-forward? Steve, Without using some trigonometry, calculus and judicious use of polar coordinates I used the guessing game. The distance from the rear mount to the spar is about 2' while the distance from tip to root is about 8.5 feet. This gives a ratio of about 2:8.5 or 1:4 move the rear spar mount in 1/4 inch and the tip moves 1 inch. This worked real well for me and I used my cutoff wheel on my die grinder to remove about 3/16 " . I also had to remove my spacer in the f-605C and cut it down some. could have taken some of the rear wing spar but I hated to cut on that unless necessary. I also had to notch the rear spar to clear the fuselage skin. This is shown on DWG 14. I swept the wings back and am just holding them in place with c-clamps at this time and will hold off on drilling them until I get the bottom skin on. I notice that without the bottom seat skin that the f-604 bulkhead wants to twist forward at the bottom center. I guess one could cleco the skin in place and then set the exact wing position. Sorry to hear that your not close to denver I went ahead and heated and bent the left gear mount forward tube and all came out well. The top coat of paint burned off but the Vari-Prime stayed put. Tough as nails. Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: KEN FERRARA <KENFER(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative electric trim kits
I would like to request a copy of your RV electric trim flyer. I would also be interested in the other color flyers you have on RV accessories. Thank you, Ken Ferrara 4408 Berwick PL Woodbridge, VA 22192 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com>
Subject: Control Tubes
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Have any of you primed the aileron and elevator control tubes on the outside and/or the inside? Bob San Antonio RV-6 cowling --- "The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4 <RV4(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Subject: 8A.Performance Numbers ?
Has anyone out there heard performance numbers yet on the 8A/200hp ? Jim Wendel RV4 N43RV...& 80505 N???? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary E. Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV 8 wings for sale
Date: Apr 29, 1998
After seeing the RV8 quick build at Sun-n-Fun I have decided to purchase it instead of completing my wings and moving on to a standard fuselage. Therefore, I have a 75%-80% complete set of RV8 wings for SALE. The skeletons are in the jig, everything is primed all skins are drilled, deburred and dimpled. I have not done much on the fuel tanks other than drill the Z brackets in place on the right wing. I was building the two wings at the same time. One aileron is completed. The quality of work is outstanding in my opinion, my background is as a Mechanical Engineer so quality and attention to detail is key in my building. The selling price is $4600 and I am located in Carlsbad, California which is about 30 miles north of San Diego. If anyone is interested my email address is gerush(at)earthlink.net. You will save at least 6 months building time for the price of the standard wing kit. decided to purchase it instead of completing my wings and moving on to a standard fuselage. Therefore, I have a 75%-80% complete set of RV8 wings for SALE. The skeletons are in the jig, everything is primed all skins are drilled, deburred and dimpled. I have not done much on the fuel tanks other than drill the Z brackets in place on the right wing. I was building the two wings at the same time. One aileron is completed. The quality of work is outstanding in my opinion, my background is as a Mechanical Engineer so quality and attention to detail is key in my Carlsbad, California which is about 30 miles north of San Diego. If anyone is interested my email address is gerush(at)earthlink.net. You will save at least 6 months building time for the price of the standard wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Control Tubes
> >Have any of you primed the aileron and elevator control tubes on the >outside and/or the inside? **I did all the tubes some time back. I think my manual suggested priming the inside by sloshing them. Good Day! Denny harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Control Tubes
<< Have any of you primed the aileron and elevator control tubes on the outside and/or the inside? >> Both. To prime the inside of the tube I taped one end of the tube and "fog sprayed" the other end while turning the tube. I then taped-off the end that I sprayed and continued to turn the tube for about five minutes (until any residual paint stopped running). I let it sit for a few hours and repeated the process spraying from the other end. There might be better ways to do it but this worked for me. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: alu flange
Date: Apr 29, 1998
>Listers >Does any know where I can get a 3/4" alu flange? I can get 3/4" scat >tube, but it's no good if I don't have anything to hook it to. > >Craig Hiers >Tallahassee, FL. >RV-4 N143CH > Auto Air shops?, a/c ducking?, I used a 2" vent for 2" hose on a plane from Home Depot off Cornice vents. had to cut the louvers off. Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Re: Control Tubes
Robert Cabe wrote: > > > Have any of you primed the aileron and elevator control tubes on the > outside and/or the inside? > > Bob > San Antonio > RV-6 cowling > > --- > "The opinions expressed herein are solely the author's > and are not necessarily the opinions of USAA." > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jon Theurich <j.theurich(at)F5.com>
Subject: RV 8 wings for sale
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Gary, I'd like to understand how you came about choosing the RV8. I'm in the market and am on the fence between the RV6a and the RV8. You can call me directly at the number below. I live in El Toro, and was just in Carlsbad on Monday. I'd like to see your wings if possible. Jon -----Original Message----- From: Gary E. Rush [SMTP:gerush(at)earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 7:07 AM Subject: RV-List: RV 8 wings for sale After seeing the RV8 quick build at Sun-n-Fun I have decided to purchase it instead of completing my wings and moving on to a standard fuselage. Therefore, I have a 75%-80% complete set of RV8 wings for SALE. The skeletons are in the jig, everything is primed all skins are drilled, deburred and dimpled. I have not done much on the fuel tanks other than drill the Z brackets in place on the right wing. I was building the two wings at the same time. One aileron is completed. The quality of work is outstanding in my opinion, my background is as a Mechanical Engineer so quality and attention to detail is key in my building. The selling price is $4600 and I am located in Carlsbad, California which is about 30 miles north of San Diego. If anyone is interested my email address is gerush(at)earthlink.net. You will save at least 6 months building time for the price of the standard wing kit. decided to purchase it instead of completing my wings and moving on to a standard fuselage. Therefore, I have a 75%-80% complete set of RV8 wings for SALE. The skeletons are in the jig, everything is primed all skins are drilled, deburred and dimpled. I have not done much on the fuel tanks other than drill the Z brackets in place on the right wing. I was building the two wings at the same time. One aileron is completed. The quality of work is outstanding in my opinion, my background is as a Mechanical Engineer so quality and attention to detail is key in my Carlsbad, California which is about 30 miles north of San Diego. If anyone is interested my email address is gerush(at)earthlink.net. You will save at least 6 months building time for the price of the standard wing [Jon Theurich] ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Subject: Re: alu flange
Craig, why don't you make it. Take a one inch piece of 6061 tube and weld it to a piece of flat aluminum ring. and presto you have a flange. Phil Craig Hiers wrote: > > > Listers > Does any know where I can get a 3/4" alu flange? I can get 3/4" scat > tube, but it's no good if I don't have anything to hook it to. > > Craig Hiers > Tallahassee, FL. > RV-4 N143CH > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Subject: Re: Flyin in S. Illinois
I'll be there and I want a ride... Phil chester razer wrote: > > The second annual Rec.Aviation.Homebuilt annual flyin is scheduled for > > the weekend of May 15,16 and 17 at the Pickneyville-DuQuoin, IL (PJY) > > airport. Its not an RV flyin but many will probably show up. Details > > are available at the following URL. > > http://aviator.cwis.siu.edu/john/ > -- > Abby Razer > Barbara Razer > Molly the Dog and > Chet Razer > razer(at)midwest.net > http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Subject: Re: 5 speed carpet
John Cocker wrote: > > Corsiar has the right idea. Before building, the selection of the > right > wife is the key to the whole project, and Magic Carpet is a very > suitable > name for an RV. > Last week I flew 24 hours, down to Sun n Fun, then across 200 miles of > sea > to Gt Harbour Cay, Bahamas, where we had a meeting of the Buttonville > Flying Club, 1200 miles from home base. > We had 10 aircraft, and nineteen people attending on this small rock. > I > thought we might have trouble with the US customs on the way back to > Ft > Pierce, but they were friendly and efficient as ever. > Problems ? None really, I needed air in the tires - why do the Van > tires > need air so often ? With the wheel pants, I have drilled a 1" hole > over > the stem, and Cleveland Tools now sell a 5" extension, so it is a lot > easier to inflate. > The other potential problem is I seem to get a lot of oil on the > bottom of > the fuselage, either from the crankcase, vent, or possibly from the > wet > vacuum pump, tho it is sent to a separator. Anyone have any ideas. > ?Yes John, run a breather tbe down fuselage and out the tail like > Pitts and other acro mounts do. Even if you don't do acro, it will > still keep the bottom clean from oil blow. Phil > I met another member of the RV List in Winchester (OKV), with a very > good > looking RV6, I really tried to remember his name, but it has been > accidentally deleted from my bio-hard-drive.----- [John Cocker] I > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Control Tubes
<< Have any of you primed the aileron and elevator control tubes on the outside and/or the inside? >> Yes, inside and out. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Devlin" <jdevlin(at)americus.net>
Subject: RV6A Canopy Forming - Tip Up
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Listers, In the process of forming my canopy I placed a gas single burner space heater under the canopy while on the fuselag. Moving cautiously, I heated the entire canopy carefully to achieve the final form. Much to my surprise, after cooling, I have a 6 inch diameter dimple in the canopy over the pilot seat. It is depressed about an inch from the normal contour. My plan is to undue the dimple by reheating in the same area and pressing outward with someone on the outside to hold the canopy in place. Hopefully, I can reverse the dimple. Any thoughts on this strategy? Nervous but hopeful, John Devlin It's not the building but the problem solving that will make this plane fly! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Bill Costello <bcos(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Randy Simpson's Tie Downs
Hi Folks, Just got a set of Randy Simpson's tie-downs, made out of titanium. Haven't used them yet, but boy do they look great, inter-twine into a very small package, and are they LIGHT. If they are as strong and as impervious to corrosion as advertised, they will make a fitting baggage compartment item for my RV-6 -- when I get the baggage compartment built, that is. Randy might have them still on an introductory price. You can email him for the particulars at Randy Simpson . BTW, I don't get any commission from Randy. Best regards, Bill Costello bcos(at)ix.netcom.com Chicago RV-6 in process N97WC reserved SBGA enthusiast ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)ornaprod.com>
Subject: RV-5 picture
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Happened to stumble across a picture of the RV-5 on the web. If you are interested, it is at: http://home.att.net/~carrprecision/page2.html Paul Riedlinger paulried(at)ornaprod.com http://paulried.home.mindspring.com (RV-Cam - still coming soon!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: 5 speed carpet
Corsair wrote: > > > Dear wife, kind and noble lady, ..... > .....RV sweet friend and getting sweeter. > Shall I say same for kind and noble lady? > You will if you know what's good for you! martin shorman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: RV-8 QB
I will be receiving my RV-8 Quickbuild kit tomorrow. It was kind of a surprise, since word from Vans as of Monday was that it was still 3 weeks away. I'm going to use a truck to pick it up at the terminal, so Roadway has to do the loading, then I can unpack it from the truck at my leisure. Any tips on unpacking a QB? Any special tools I need? Check my website Friday morning for pictures. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: alu flange
Flying Phil's Circus wrote: > > > Craig, why don't you make it. Take a one inch piece of 6061 tube and > weld it to a piece of flat aluminum ring. and presto you have a flange. > > Phil > Phil I don't have the equipment to weld alu, I was hoping someone would have a source for them. I just wanted to throw money at the problem to make it go away. Craig Hiers Tallahassee,FL. RV-4 N143CH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Johnnie989 <Johnnie989(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 29, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-5 picture
I know it said RV5 but I THINK it's a RV3. I could be wrong, but thats what it looks like johnnie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-5 picture
As I understand it, Van built the RV-5 just to test this engine. RV HOME WING correct me if I am wrong. The RV-3 flying chase also looks good. ---Paul Riedlinger wrote: > > > Happened to stumble across a picture of the RV-5 on the web. If you are > interested, it is at: > http://home.att.net/~carrprecision/page2.html > > Paul Riedlinger > paulried(at)ornaprod.com == Gary A. Sobek RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Good news!!!!!
About a year ago last February, an FAA FSDO inspector in Alaska filed a suspected unapproved parts action against Bill Bainbridge at B&C Specialty Products for violation of 21.303(a) which prohibits offering a non-PMA part for installation on a certified airplane. Bill was approached by authorities from FAA at Sun-N-Fun last week and was told, "All charges have been dropped, an APOLOGY letter is being crafted, and policies and procedures are being written to see that things like this do not happen again. I just had a long conversation with Bill and he sounds like a huge load has been removed from his shoulders. This is all preliminary but his conversations were first person with folks at the top. We'll be publishing copies of the documents as soon as they are available along with a chronolgy of events in this matter on our website. We'll let you all know when the data is available for viewing. I hope I'm not beeing TOO optimistic but this series of events may mark a turning point in the relationship between our public servants and those they purport to serve. Today has been a good day. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV-5 picture
Johnnie989 wrote: > > > I know it said RV5 but I THINK it's a RV3. I could be wrong, but thats what it > looks like > johnnie > Actually Paul was right it is a picture of the RV-5. It was a one of airplane designed by Van and built as a project by Eaa Chapter 105. It was a test bed for Dave Carrs 1/2 VW. It was built sometime in the 1970's as I remember it. I think it is still hanging in the rafters at Van's. -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 29, 1998
From: Anthony Wiebe <awiebe(at)cadvision.com>
Subject: RVer's in the Boston Area
I am going to be in the Boston area for the next two weeks and was wondering if there is anyone that would consider taking me for a ride in their RV6 or RV6A. There are not any flying in my home town (Calgary, Alberta, Canada) and I would give my eye teeth to go up in one. On second thought, I would be more than willing to pay expenses and buy lunch. Secondly, can anyone point me to a reputable FOB where I can rent an aircraft while I'm in the area? Thank you in advance for your help. Best Regards, Anthony Wiebe Calgary, Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: RV-5 picture
Johnnie989(at)aol.com wrote: > I know it said RV5 but I THINK it's a RV3. I could be wrong, but thats what > it > looks like It's both... the RV-5 is nearer the camera. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: GLASAIR Crash in La.
The crash of a Glasair 3 enroute from Falcon at Mesa AZ to Sun and Fun --does anyone know anything about this--circumstances etc. I believe it was in La somewhere. Was weather involved?? Thanks JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: First Taxi tests.....
I taxied my -6a for the first time today, (yeah!) and I have a couple of questions. First is the brakes. Man do they groan! (when applied) I searched the archives, and found several other builders have mentioned this, but the only solution I could find was from Andy Gold. He mentioned using moly to lube the caliper pins. Is this required? or did the groaning go away on its own after a few hours of service? I tried taxing with the brakes lightly applied, taxing to a good clip and applying the brakes heavily, but they groaned as bad at the end of the tests as at the start. The second question. I ran the engine up to check the static rpm, I have an IO-320-B1A with a new C/S prop. The first full throttle run took the rpm to 2820 on the RMI micromonitor. Hmmmm, so I backed it off, (the tires were skiddin and chirpin anyway!) I took it up to 2500 and exercised the prop, went to full throttle and now the rpm stops at 2700. Solid. At this rpm, I can barely move the prop control before the prop starts to load the engine down. I suspect that the new Woodward governor is controling the rpm at 2700, but is this correct? Shouldn't the prop be adjusted so that it's limiting the static rpm to redline (2700) and not the governor? Or would I be better off just leaving it alone, since now it seems to be working ok. Oh, we checked the RMI tach against one of those handheld photo tachs that works with light through the prop, they were exactly even. Mark LaBoyteaux MLaboyteau(at)aol.com RV-6a N106RV Airplanes weighed, finishing up for inspection! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Subject: Re: alu flange
Craig, You makee, I weldee If you send me the tube and flange, I'll weld it up for you and send it back to you. 3 or 4 of them if you do the fabricating... come to the Pinckneyville flyin and we'll come up to my place and weld them and you can take them home with you. Now I came to Florida and no one made me an offer like that.. Phil Craig Hiers wrote: > > > Flying Phil's Circus wrote: > > > > > > > Craig, why don't you make it. Take a one inch piece of 6061 tube and > > > weld it to a piece of flat aluminum ring. and presto you have a > flange. > > > > Phil > > > > Phil > I don't have the equipment to weld alu, I was hoping someone would > have a source for them. I just wanted to throw money at the problem > to make it go away. > > Craig Hiers > Tallahassee,FL. > RV-4 N143CH > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-5 picture
<< It's both... the RV-5 is nearer the camera. >> Come on, guys. That's the prototype RV-3 and the RV-5 in the picture. I think you've been standing to close to the QB kits too long, and forgotten your roots. :-) Jim Ayers LesDrar(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Subject: Pink nee ville flyin
Pinckneyville, Illinois.....Some call it the Great Central Midwest Fly-in. Others just call it the RAH Flyin. He who leaves with the Pinckest Knee's wins. Some say it will be the biggest Midwest RV gathering. 'think I'll bring the Pitts and remind them of what real airplanes are...I'll wear a black Harley shirt too. I'll bring some red dogs but BWB owes me a beer. He has probably forgot it but I'll remind him in his own writing. In the mean time, I am working on fuselage of RV6. Fly safe, badwater phil, ooops just Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PILOT 8127 <PILOT8127(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Pink nee ville RV- flyin
Count one more. I will be in the RV-3 N5 aye-jay. Sounds like fun!! (BTW) what's a "PITTS" ? an airplane or a bad situation ? ......... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: RVer's in the Boston Area
Anthony, While I don't know of any RV6 or RV6A aircraft flying in this area, I can point you towards an excellent FBO. It's called Fox Aviation and it's located at Hanscom Field (BED). Call Hal Spector (the chief pilot) at 781-274-8529 and tell him Ken Balch sent you. He's currently got the following aircraft available for checkout and rental: C-172 Skyhawk, PA28-140 Cherokee, PA28R-201 Arrow III, TB-10 Tobago. Please let me know if you've got any questions. Ken Balch, CFI Anthony Wiebe wrote: > > I am going to be in the Boston area for the next two weeks and was > wondering if there is anyone that would consider taking me for a ride in > their RV6 or RV6A. There are not any flying in my home town (Calgary, > Alberta, Canada) and I would give my eye teeth to go up in one. On > second thought, I would be more than willing to pay expenses and buy > lunch. > > Secondly, can anyone point me to a reputable FOB where I can rent an > aircraft while I'm in the area? > > Thank you in advance for your help. > > Best Regards, > > Anthony Wiebe > > Calgary, Alberta > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: why the sweep forward?
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Sweep forward comes just from the fact that the rear spar attachment can be moved in and out (toward the centerline of the fuselage and away from the center line) by several fractions of an inch. The main spar is just fine. You just have to clamp the rear spar attachment in exactly the right spot before drilling the attachment bolt. There is a lot of fiddling around at the rear spar attach point to get it just right. It's a critical operation and can't be adjusted once it's drilled. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont -----Original Message----- From: Flying Phil's Circus [mailto:sisson(at)ctnet.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 8:06 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: why the sweep forward? I noticed the posting of how far will it move. I was wondering where the "sweep forward" comes from. How could it be eliminated at first? Is it from spar sag as the wing is in the jig, Is it from bulkhead f604? I'm just curious because so many have the same or similar problem. Thanks for reply's... New builder RV6-200, Phil Litchfield, Illinois ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: Re: Randy Simpson's Tie Downs
Bill Costello wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > Just got a set of Randy Simpson's tie-downs, made out of titanium. > Haven't used them yet, but boy do they look great, inter-twine into a I received mine last week. They are a thing of beauty and are a permanent item in the baggage compartment. Randy is very easy to deal with and seems to be a typical RV supplier (trusting and high standards). Terry Jantzi RV-6 C-GZRV (first flight anniversary April 25 with 270 hours on the hobbs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: 5 speed carpet
From: bob.char.reeves(at)Juno.com (Robert L Reeves)
I too have wondered why I have to put air in my -4's tires so often..I'm on my second set of tires and tubes and have checked both sets for leaks. I have to air them up at least once a month. Anyone figured this out? Also, are they letting "experimentals" into the Bahamas now? I was told a couple years ago they wouldn't. Living in Fla. I've always wanted to jump over there. Bob Reeves Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4 Hidden River Airport, Sarasota, Florida _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Pink nee ville flyin
>> When is the dang thing? Is that N or S IL? Check six! Mark pm to redline (2700) and not the governor? Or would I be better off just leaving it alone, since now it seems to be working ok. >> What a coincidence! I had this very q for the fellas the the Hartzell booth @ S-n-F. Yes, you should set the prop to limit RPM on takeoff. The tech rep said to set the thing to 2650 on the early roll, with the gov set to 2700. For some reason, this keeps the RPM from surging on t/o or a go-around. Adjust the allen stop screw on the nose 1/2 turn inward at a time, unitl you get the desired RPM. Don't forget to re-tighten the lock nut! Congratulations on getting your machine to move under its own power. I have no input on the brake problem- could be the pads & rotors beaking in...wait a few hrs to see what happens. BTW- there is no cure for your sore cheeks (from smiling so big). Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: First Taxi tests.....
<< Subj: RV-List: First Taxi tests..... Date: 98-04-30 01:39:41 EDT From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com (MLaboyteau) (Snip) (Snip) The second question. I ran the engine up to check the static rpm, I have an IO-320-B1A with a new C/S prop. The first full throttle run took the rpm to 2820 on the RMI micromonitor. Hmmmm, so I backed it off, (the tires were skiddin and chirpin anyway!) I took it up to 2500 and exercised the prop, went to full throttle and now the rpm stops at 2700. Solid. At this rpm, I can barely move the prop control before the prop starts to load the engine down. I suspect that the new Woodward governor is controling the rpm at 2700, but is this correct? Shouldn't the prop be adjusted so that it's limiting the static rpm to redline (2700) and not the governor? Or would I be better off just leaving it alone, since now it seems to be working ok. Oh, we checked the RMI tach against one of those handheld photo tachs that works with light through the prop, they were exactly even. Mark LaBoyteaux MLaboyteau(at)aol.com RV-6a N106RV Airplanes weighed, finishing up for inspection! >> Hello Mark and all, The prop should be exercised as part of the pre-flight run-up; such as, set engine at 1800 RPM, cycle prop three times (500 RPM drop), check mag's, etc. This was explained to me as allowing fresh oil to be pumped to the prop, so the prop governor could properly control the engine speed. JIm Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: Pink nee ville RV- flyin
Date: Apr 30, 1998
>> (BTW) what's a "PITTS" ? an airplane or a bad situation ? ......... A pitts is how you feel when you work very diligently on your homebuilt, complete it after the second mortgage, divorce, and termination of your long time employment and you realize you should have built an RV. :*) Gary Fesenbek Roanoke, VA > -----Original Message----- > From: PILOT 8127 [SMTP:PILOT8127(at)aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, April 30, 1998 7:28 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Pink nee ville RV- flyin > > > Count one more. I will be in the RV-3 N5 aye-jay. Sounds like fun!! > (BTW) what's a "PITTS" ? an airplane or a bad situation ? > ......... > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: RV6A Canopy Forming - Tip Up
I heated my first attempt (canopy 101) with a small electric space heater. I can not say for sure that it is what caused the crack in left front corner. But after running it over in mind, along with $800. plus dollars that crack cost, I believe that stresses can be built into the canopy from getting the canopy warmer in some areas than others. I put the electric heater under the old canopy and after a half an hour hand tested it. It was warmer in some areas than other, which was really no surprise after thinking it out. I have discussed this with our builders group, many with success in their history and they agree with me there is a good chance of having stresses built in that could ruin a fellows day. It is better, it was decided, to go with the ambient temperature of your shop than space heating the canopy. Of course the higher to point the ambient shop temperature the easier it is to work with. Good Day! Denny harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: GLASAIR Crash in La.
These were two gentlemen that some friends of mine are aquainted with...I recently received a broadcast letter from a local EAA chapter regarding this crash. They encountered severe turbulence six minutes outside of Lake Charles, LA and spun into a wooded swampy area. The two that were on board were: John Bridges Jack Siebenhaar Although I did not know them personally, I am sure they will both be missed. My condolences to their families. Paul Besing > >The crash of a Glasair 3 enroute from Falcon at Mesa AZ to Sun and Fun --does >anyone know anything about this--circumstances etc. I believe it was in La >somewhere. Was weather involved?? Thanks JR > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 QB
<3547BD31.C8D15D74(at)ctnet.net> Grab a buddy, some gloves, two hammers, two prybars, and an electric drill/screwdriver. And don't forget your eye protection! Don't bother trying to remove the crate from the truck. Just brake it down inside. All the smaller parts will be packed inside the fuse...when you remove those, the fuse will be light enough for two people to carry out of the truck. Oh yes...don't use a U'haul. They have wheel wells inside that make loading for the roadway guys a real pain...use a flatbed, or a Ryder truck. (The Ryder trucks are flat inside) Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) > >I will be receiving my RV-8 Quickbuild kit tomorrow. It was kind of a >surprise, since word from Vans as of Monday was that it was still 3 >weeks away. I'm going to use a truck to pick it up at the terminal, so >Roadway has to do the loading, then I can unpack it from the truck at my >leisure. Any tips on unpacking a QB? Any special tools I need? Check my >website Friday morning for pictures. > >-- >Moe Colontonio >moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net >http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: why the sweep forward
Flying Phil's Circus wrote: > > I noticed the posting of how far will it move. I was wondering where the > "sweep forward" comes from. How could it be eliminated at first? > Is it from spar sag as the wing is in the jig, Is it from bulkhead f604? > I'm just curious because so many have the same or similar problem. > Thanks for reply's... > > The reason for the forward sweep in the wings after the initial fitting is that the rear spar mounting point on the fuselage is built intentionally long during construction. This is then trimmed to fit the wings at fitting time. Better to long than to short Gary Zilik RV-6A s/n 22993 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Re: 5 speed carpet
> Also, are they letting "experimentals" into the Bahamas now? I was told > a couple years ago they wouldn't. Living in Fla. I've always wanted to > jump over there. My EAA tech advisor told me of his trip to the Bahamas in is -6 the first time I met him and he showed me his airplane. This was 3 or 4 years ago. -Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: RV-4 firewall assembly
For the -4 builders I am assembling my fuse structure in the jig and have some questions regarding the firewall assembly, WD-402 and WD-403 engine mount support brackets and fuse longerons. The manuual indicates that the firewall stiffener angles are to be attached to the firewall but that the corner holes are to be drilled/riveted later in assembly with the WD-402 and WD-403 brackets. This step doesnt come until the entire structure is completely assembled in the jig. If this is correct how do you dimple the holes in the firewall and c'sink the angles for the AN426 rivets that go here? Is there any reason why these weldments cant be riveted to the firewall now before the firewall goes into the jig? Drawing 26 seems to show the fuse longerons overlapping the ends of the WD-402 and WD-403 which project back from the firewall. Drawing 27 appears to contradict this and shows the weldments overlapping the longerons/angles. I suspect that the depiction on drawing 26 is the correct one and that this doesnt get rivetted until the front side skins are installed. Is my interpretation correct? The manual states that the front bottom skin F-422 front edge is to be slipped under the bottom flange of the firewall (in other words between the flange and the bottom firewall stiffener angle?) and then drilled to the structure. Well if Ive followed the directions to this point Ive already rivetted this angle to the firewall flange. So what is the correct procedure/assembly sequence here? Is there anything else here that isnt obvious that I should be asking about? Thanks in advance for any help, Mike Wills RV-4 (fuse) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: First Taxi tests.....
<< I ran the engine up to check the static rpm, I have an IO-320-B1A with a new C/S prop. The first full throttle run took the rpm to 2820 on the RMI micromonitor. Hmmmm, so I backed it off, (the tires were skiddin and chirpin anyway!) I took it up to 2500 and exercised the prop, went to full throttle and now the rpm stops at 2700. Solid. At this rpm, I can barely move the prop control before the prop starts to load the engine down. I suspect that the new Woodward governor is controling the rpm at 2700, but is this correct? Shouldn't the prop be adjusted so that it's limiting the static rpm to redline (2700) and not the governor? >> Mark- You need to adjust the high rpm stop on the front of the prop hub. You need to break the jam nut loose and turn the setscrew clockwise to reduce rpm. I had to go about 1.5 turns CW to prevent overspeed on takeoff with my O-360. Try adjusting it in one turn and then try flying it. The static rpm you get with the a/c tied down needs to be lower than 2700 (more like 2400) because as the a/c starts moving forward, the prop unloads somewhat. You want to have right around 2700 max during rotation and climb in order to be making max power and yet not overspeed your engine for best longevity. Also try to get your prop dynamically balanced at 2400-2500 rpm before you fly. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: First Taxi tests.....
MLaboyteau wrote: > > I taxied my -6a for the first time today, (yeah!) and I have a couple of > questions. First is the brakes. Man do they groan! This seems to be a result of these darned pads which Van has been shipping the last few years. Mine groaned and vibrated like crazy for the first few hours of operation. Finally after much anguish, I just did it like we did in the AF and mashed them good and hard on the next few landing rolls and they quit squawking.... for good. The good news is that now, after 200+ hours and 280 landings they are at about half the wear limit (from new) and silent. So... just don't be afraid to ride them a few times to "wear them in" but don't try to do it all at once or you will fry the rotors, etc. It took me at least twenty landings to get mine broken in. If you could hold the plane at 2700 RPM, they are working fine. Just put up with the temporary groan for a while . That's what I did and have been very pleased with the resulting service. BTW you will discover that if you taxi at 12K, you can steer with the rudder alone. Cool. Don't forget to re tighten the nose gear washer after the taxi test. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net>
Subject: Tires for RVs/ Bahamas
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Bob Reeves et al, Maybe we need more input on tires and RVs. With my Cherokee, the tires were checked once a year, and never seemed to need inflating. Also they lasted indefinitely. With the RV, I have to inflate monthly, and after less than a year there is very obvious wear, the tread has gone over the lateral half of the tire. Ken Hitchmough's RV 6A, parked next to mine has a similar problem. Would a different brand of tire help ? Do we have too much toe-in ? What do the experts think ? About the Bahamas. There is a list or requirements for Homebuilts. I put them all together and Faxed them to the number given, and two days later I had permission. One requirement was for a statement from a Licensed Mechanic saying that the builder was competent - I just put a note saying this was impossible to get. For the list of requirements for the Bahamas, send me your Fax No. If there is enough interest I could post it on the list. -----Original Message----- From: Robert L Reeves [SMTP:bob.char.reeves(at)Juno.com] Sent: Thursday, 30 April 1998 08:21 Subject: RV-List: 5 speed carpet I too have wondered why I have to put air in my -4's tires so often..I'm on my second set of tires and tubes and have checked both sets for leaks. I have to air them up at least once a month. Anyone figured this out? Also, are they letting "experimentals" into the Bahamas now? I was told a couple years ago they wouldn't. Living in Fla. I've always wanted to jump over there. Bob Reeves Building Bearhawk, Flying RV-4 Hidden River Airport, Sarasota, Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com>
Subject: 6A Taxi Tests - Overheated brakes
A word of caution for those of you doing your taxi tests with a 6A. A local builder had just completed a series of high speed taxi tests and was headed back to his hanger. He applied left peddle and made the one last left turn down a row of parked aircraft. He applied right peddle to straighten out only to find out the brake peddle went down to the floor (or firewall). The aircraft was going too slow for the rudder to be effective. As he was headed for a parked 172 he cut the engine. The prop was still winding down as it cut into the side of the 172 just behind the firewall. The RV's prop (c/s) was damaged along with its wing along the fuel tank area. The 172 sustained $20K worth of damage. The RV was repaired and flown for the first time six months and $$ later. The once new prop was overhauled and the engine torn down and inspected. They both had insurance! The brake failure was due to overheating of the brakes which caused the O-ring to melt. This was with outside temps around 50F. So be easy on the brakes. Gary RV-6 20038 finishing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 firewall assembly
Mike, I dont have my plans in front of me but I am pretty sure I understand the dilema you are going through. I remember going through the same thing many years ago. I would have thought they would have updated the plans by now. #1. All of the longerons and aluminum angles atatch to the outside of the steel weldments on the firewall corners. Think in terms of your side skins having to lay flush with the firewall flange. Those angles sure fit nice on the inside but dont get sucked in they go on the outside. #2. Yes you can drill these now and rivet this assembly together with the exception of the bottom flange. Take a couple pieces of scrap angle and clamp them to the weldments. Now you can move the weldment into a position where you get a good smooth contour between the temporary longeron(scrap angle) and the firewall flange. Use a piece of srcrap aluminum skin to check the fit between the angle and the flange. This is where your side skin will lay so you want it to be able to go on smooth with no buckles. Once this has been accomplished you can drill and atatch your weldments. #3. On the lower or bottom flange you can drill it now and dimple and countersink the angle. However you have to sandwitch the bottom fuselage skin in there when you get to that point so dont rivet the bottom flange to the angle on the bottom of the firewall. You can rivet the bottom angle to forward end of the firewall. When you finally get to the point of skinning the fueselage you can slide the bottom skin between the angle and the flange and pick the holes up into the skin by drilling through the existing holes in the flange.Once you remove the skin for deburing it will be dimpled and it will all go back together as an assembly. If you have already riveted the lower flange to the angle no harm done just remove the rivets. I hope this is of some help. Hopefully written so its not to difficult to understand. Ryan Bendure ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 firewall assembly
For the -4 builders I am assembling my fuse structure in the jig and have some questions regarding the firewall assembly, WD-402 and WD-403 engine mount support brackets and fuse longerons. The manuual indicates that the firewall stiffener angles are to be attached to the firewall but that the corner holes are to be drilled/riveted later in assembly with the WD-402 and WD-403 brackets. This step doesnt come until the entire structure is completely assembled in the jig. If this is correct how do you dimple the holes in the firewall and c'sink the angles for the AN426 rivets that go here? Is there any reason why these weldments cant be riveted to the firewall now before the firewall goes into the jig? Geez Lou-eez! You got a lotta questions! Finish the entire firewall assy, short of riveting the 063 stiffeners in the footwell area. Rivet these after you have riveted the floor ribs to 'em. Fit the rudder pedal mounts while you have the assy on the bench. Run a pc of 1/8" angle between the inner rudder ped mounts to stiffen this area a bit. After you have the firewall assembled, you can locate and drill the outer 4 holes FROM THE ENGINE MOUNT. You should mark the two inner holes with a #40 bit at this time also. Short pcs of 3/8 fuel line as bushings in the outer holes will allow proper jigging. Jigging: Get that firewall jigged exactly straight! Take a few extra moments at the start and during the fuse building process to make sure the firewall gets set up right, and stays that way. Pushing and pulling and tugging on the longerons and bulkheads will try to upset your firewall, so watch this closely. Make sure the thing is pointed at the tailpost/412 bulkhead. Drawing 26 seems to show the fuse longerons overlapping the ends of the WD-402 and WD-403 which project back from the firewall. Drawing 27 appears to contradict this and shows the weldments overlapping the longerons/angles. I suspect that the depiction on drawing 26 is the correct one and that this doesnt get rivetted until the front side skins are installed. Is my interpretation correct? The angle attaches to the outside of the weldments. Figure out your rivet spacing, and put a tack rivet in between at one point. In final assy, these rivets are diffucult to shoot- the weldment soaks up a lot of the gun's energy. We end-around that problem by using Cherry-max rivets here. The manual states that the front bottom skin F-422 front edge is to be slipped under the bottom flange of the firewall (in other words between the flange and the bottom firewall stiffener angle?) and then drilled to the structure. Well if Ive followed the directions to this point Ive already rivetted this angle to the firewall flange. So what is the correct procedure/assembly sequence here? This skin rivets to the lower stiffener and to the stainless flange at the same time. The stiffener angle is riveted (we use AN3 bolts here- two each side) to the weldment along the vertical leg, not the horizontal leg. We use universal head rivets at the belly skin attach, as the stiffener would require machine countersinking. This is not easily done. There will be no drag penalty from using universal rivets here. Is there anything else here that isnt obvious that I should be asking about? What is the capitol of South Dakota? ;-) I can give you directions for a butt-joint at the boot cowl attach area and the #4 bulkhead/side skin joint. V easy, the boot cowl attach nutplates end up ABOVE the longerons, and looks much better. Be the envy of builders everywhere! Check six! Mark Thanks in advance for any help, Mike Wills RV-4 (fuse) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Shelby.Smith(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: GLASAIR Crash in La.
> >The crash of a Glasair 3 enroute from Falcon at Mesa AZ to Sun and Fun --does >anyone know anything about this--circumstances etc. I believe it was in La >somewhere. Was weather involved?? Thanks JR > > Per Compuserve, I believe the president of Stoddard-Hamilton was flying. It was a new 10hr engine failure with an on airport landing. The pilot was at Sun & Fun the next day. Relatively little damage to the plane even though it was landed with gear up. Can't remember all the details. Shelby. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Location Please
Would RV-listers please state your geographic location? thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: GLASAIR Crash in La.
<< Relatively little damage to the plane even though it was landed with gear up. >> Shelby is correct, but is talking about an incident at Arlington Airport in Washington State, which is where Stoddard-Hamilton is located. The Louisiana Glasair crash was a duel fatality, and was a separate incident. Jim Nice RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Pressure Testing Fuel Tanks
I have just finished sealing my RV-8 tanks, and am wondering how long to wait to pressure test? And what is the preferred method to do so? I am guessing I should just go on with the center section and setting up the fuse jig, maybe wait a month just to be sure the tanks are fully cured. When pressure testing, I am afraid of overinflating; I guess the best method I have heard so far is to put a cap on the vent outlet, slowly put air in through the fuel outlet until the skin slightly pops up, then quickly put a cap on the fuel outlet, followed by dipping the tank in a bathtub full of water. Any better ideas? How about the balloon method? Thanks Von Alexander RV-8#544 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Fast (and expensive) Plastic
I'm getting ready to order my finish kit and need input on various aftermarket components which I'm considering instead of the factory parts. If anyone on the list has experience with any of the aftermarket airframe parts, please enlighten me. In particular, I'm interested in the quality of the products and performance gains. Here are some items I'm aware of, but if you have opinions on other items, I'm interested in those too. 1) Sam James' round air intakes and engine cooling plenum. 2) Sam James' wing root fairings. 3) Tracy Saylor's gear leg fairings. 4) Mark F's gear leg fairings. 5) Sam James' wheelpants. Thanks, Kyle Boatright ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Re: 6A Taxi Tests - Overheated brakes
Gary kozinski wrote: > > > > > The brake failure was due to overheating of the brakes which caused the O-ring to melt. This was with outside temps around 50F. So be easy on the brakes. > > Gary RV-6 20038 finishing I agree Gary. I found I had melted the plastic brake line from the taxi tests. After that, I limited the taxi time to 5 or 10 minutes at a time. John Kitz N721JK Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: 6A Taxi Tests - Overheated brakes
<< A word of caution for those of you doing your taxi tests with a 6A. A local builder had just completed a series of high speed taxi tests and was headed back to his hanger. He applied left pedal and ....As he was headed for a parked 172 he cut the engine. The prop was still winding down as it cut into the side of the 172 just behind the firewall... The RV was repaired and flown for the first time six months and $$ later. The brake failure was due to overheating of the brakes which caused the O-ring to melt. This was with outside temps around 50F. So be easy on the brakes. >> I believe that the Cleveland brakes are slightly underspec'd for the heavier 6As and I am going to find out what the LongEZ guys do to improve them without going to the larger 6" wheels. I've heard that they change pads, seals and go to DOT 5 fluid, but I'll report back to the list anything I learn. The LongEZs are hard on brakes. ________________________________________________________________________________ calculated: KE=.0443*W*V^2/N, where KE = kinetic energy in ft-lb W = a/c landing weight in lbs V = a/c landing speed in kts N = number of wheels with brakes Doing the math for my plane, 1900 lbs gross at 56 kts yields131,979 ft-lb and these brakes are rated by Cleveland for 117,500 ft-lb. I like the weaker brakes on taildraggers, but the A's need a little help in this respect IMO. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Pressure Testing Fuel Tanks
MAlexan533 wrote: > > I have just finished sealing my RV-8 tanks, and am wondering how long to wait > to pressure test? And what is the preferred method to do so? I am guessing I > should just go on with the center section and setting up the fuse jig, maybe > wait a month just to be sure the tanks are fully cured. When pressure testing, > I am afraid of overinflating; I guess the best method I have heard so far is > to put a cap on the vent outlet, slowly put air in through the fuel outlet > until the skin slightly pops up, then quickly put a cap on the fuel outlet, > followed by dipping the tank in a bathtub full of water. Any better ideas? How > about the balloon method? > Thanks > Von Alexander > RV-8#544 The balloon method is the best way. By the time the skins pop out in your first method you may have damage to the proseal joints. The balloon will keep the pressure down around 1# and will be sufficient to check for leaks. Also the best way to look for leaks is to use a soapy solution and brush it over the rivet lines and corners just like looking for a puncture in an inner tube. Trying to hold the tank under water could be very trying and would make it difficult to see the leaks on the underneath surfaces. Hope this helps. Doug Murray RV-6 working on engine STILL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: "Charles T. Brietigam" <brietig(at)Ibm.Net>
Subject: RV-3 Kits
Several weeks past someone had a posting regarding some RV-3 kits that were for sale. If the kits are still available, please contact me via email or 502-254-5079. Thanks. Chuck ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: First Taxi tests.....
My brakes "groaned" as well at first. It seemed to stop after about 4-5 flights. Walt RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Soggy brakes
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Hi listers I have just been waking up my 4 from its winter hybernation and as a part of this process, I have changed to metal brake lines from the plastic, because I got fed up with the plastic leaking. I don't have any leaks any more, and I have a nice solid left brake, but no matter what I do I can't seem to get the right brake to bleed up solid. It apprear to be air because it pumps up solid with about four pumps. I have disconnected the master cylinders and turned them the right way up while I bleed the breaks ( 4 guys will know what I mean) and still no joy with the right one. Any Ideas. Joe HIne RV4 C-FYTQ its winter hybernation and as a part of this process, I have changed to metal brake lines from the plastic, because I got fed up with the plastic leaking. I don't have any leaks any more, and I have a nice solid left brake, but no matter what I do I can't seem to get the right brake to bleed up solid. It apprear to be air because it pumps up solid with about four pumps. I have disconnected the master cylinders and turned them the right way up while I bleed the breaks ( 4 guys will know what I mean) and still no joy with the right ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com>
Subject: Re: alu flange
Date: Apr 30, 1998
If you are looking for aluminum Scat duct flanges Aircraft Spruce carries them for about $6 in many common sizes. Dan Morris -----Original Message----- From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 7:24 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: alu flange > >Flying Phil's Circus wrote: >> >> >> Craig, why don't you make it. Take a one inch piece of 6061 tube and >> weld it to a piece of flat aluminum ring. and presto you have a flange. >> >> Phil >> > >Phil >I don't have the equipment to weld alu, I was hoping someone would >have a source for them. I just wanted to throw money at the problem >to make it go away. > > >Craig Hiers >Tallahassee,FL. >RV-4 N143CH > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Soggy brakes
Joe:This problem was common with 4s because the brake master cylinders were mounted with the cylinder at the top...This allowed air to stagnate at the top of the cylinder with no where to go.... no matter how many times you bleed them..Sometimes you can get lucky with a pressure bleeder but the solution is to reverse the cylinders on the pedals and no more troubles!!! A very easy fix!!! I had this problem on my 4 until I figured out the solution..Rebuilt cylinders,lines,etc. looking for air leaks..Over a week!!! Reversed cylinders..problem gone in 5 mins...Best of Luck, Jim Brown ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Randy Simpson's Tie Downs
I too got my "Ti-downs" and they are great. They are of excellent quality. They are incredibly light compared to the old tie downs that I had, about 1/4 the weight, I would guess. For those of you who have not tried to use titanium before, let me relate a story. I got some "McDD. shop sweep" AN4-7A titanium bolts from a friend to use on my Sea Hawk aileron brackets. I needed to chase the threads and cut them off just about 1/4 of an inch to make them work. I clamped a bolt in my vise and took my thread die and started to extend the threads. It was very hard to turn the die, so I got a longer handle and put some muscle to the task. The bolt started giving off sparks and got very hot as I kept turning the die. Satisfied that I had chased the threads far enough, I removed the die with some difficulty. To my astonishment, there were no threads added past where they were originally. I looked at my very expensive die and was astonished to see that it was perfectly smooth inside; the thread cutters were gone! OK, so I'll just use some washers to take up the space, I thought, but I still need to cut the bolt off to use it. I got out my best bi-metal hacksaw blade and started sawing. I succeeded in removing all of the teeth from the blade without scratching the bolt. Time to get serious. I got a die grinder with a carbide blade and began to cut away. You guessed it. Titanium bolt - 1, carbide blade - 0. I wore the blade to nothing without so much as a good dent in the bolt. I gave up. Titanium is some tough stuff. I can''t imagine what it takes to work with it. Anyway, this is one very nice accessory to have on a cross country. I would bet that if you wait until Oshkosh to order a set, you will have a very long wait for delivery, because once you see and hold a set, you will have to have them; you and everyone else. Jim Cone RV-6A flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com>
Date: Apr 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Soggy brakes additional note
Joe:Forgot to mention that the brakes apparently need to stay in the cylinder down position because any air zipps right back to the top if you just remove the brakes turn them cylinder down..bleed them and then put them back the way they were..Jim..(That way works sometimes) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 QB
MoeJoe wrote: > > > I will be receiving my RV-8 Quickbuild kit tomorrow. It was kind of a > surprise, since word from Vans as of Monday was that it was still 3 > weeks away. I'm going to use a truck to pick it up at the terminal, so > Roadway has to do the loading, then I can unpack it from the truck at my > leisure. Any tips on unpacking a QB? Any special tools I need? Check my > website Friday morning for pictures. > > -- > Moe Colontonio > moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe > I did mine with a auto ramp truck. Cost $70.00 I had a QB kit Lyco engine and C/S prop on it. Backed to garage raised the bed and it all slipped off. No Damage and i unpacked it there so I didn'e have to move the crates anymore. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: GLASAIR Crash in La.
>>The crash of a Glasair 3 enroute from Falcon at Mesa AZ to Sun and Fun --does >>anyone know anything about this--circumstances etc. I believe it was in La >>somewhere. Was weather involved?? Thanks JR >> >I believe the president of Stoddard-Hamilton was flying. It was a new 10hr >engine failure with an on airport landing. The pilot was at Sun & Fun the >next day. Relatively little damage to the plane even though it was landed >with gear up. No, I believe that the LA accident is being confused with the one at Stoddard-Hamilton's home base. The LA crash took the lives of two friends of mine, John Bridges and Jack Siebenhaar. John and I were particularly good friends. He was a member of the EAA chapter that I am currently president of. Several of us are taking John's death pretty hard. I last saw him alive at our chapter weenie-roast on Saturday April 11. He was a man full of life and always ready with a laugh. Not only was he an artist with composites, but was always ready and willing to be the paitient teacher. My own RV-6's cowling contains work resulting from his wisdom. John Bridges is sorely missed. Not much is known about the accident at this time. They departed their cruise altitude of 11,500 ft at approximately 8:30 pm and crashed into the swamp, impacting at an approximately 45 degree angle. The aircraft, a very fine Glassair III, was intact until the moment of impact. The only thing we know about the weather is that moderate to severe turbulence was forcast for the area. This is not the first time I've had to bury a good friend, and I can tell you that it does not get easier with repetition. Be careful out there, guys. Best Regards, dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Apr 30, 1998
From: rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net>
Subject: Re: Pressure Testing Fuel Tanks
When I test our tanks, I'll use this method: Seal all openings to the tank, and attach a length of clear hose to one of them. Hang the hose such that the end which isn't connected to the tank is pointing upward, and there is a "U" in the hose below both the open end and the tank connection. Fill the hose with water, until it reaches partway up the hose on the side of the "U" nearest the tank. The water level will be higher on the side of the "U" that is open. Mark this level on the hose. Note the ambient temperature, and go away. Check on the level periodically. It will move in relation to the temperature, but the amount of movement can be calculated, or you can take your readings only at identical ambient temperatures. If the level of water moves more than a temperature change would allow, then you've got a leak. Use a soapy solution to locate it. The more water you use, the more pressure is applied to the tank. You can fit more water by having a deeper "U" or a larger diameter hose. You might want to add some dye to the water to aid in viewing it. -- -------- Rob Rimbold rimbold(at)ntr.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com>
Date: May 01, 1998
Subject: Re: Soggy brakes
<< I have a nice solid left brake, but no matter what I do I can't seem to get the right brake to bleed up solid. >> Joe Hypothetics follow: since I do not have the -4 that I am rebuilding flying yet. However, I have had what one might call extensive experience with simple, as well as complex hydraulic braking systems. If you have bled both sides of your brake system correctly, (and it certainly sounds like you have) and you are sure there is no air in the system, then the next logical step is to suspect a bypassing brake master cylinder. I don't know how old your -4 is, but in reality, age and time in service of certain components isn't necessarily indicative of how long they will actually last, as compared to similar or like components in the same or similar machines. When a master cylinder starts to bypass, it can actually feel like air in the system. As you depress the brakes the first time, a slight amount of pressure (as well as fluid flow) is built up. When you release the brake pedal, then pump it again, the relative motion is fairly rapid. More pressure, and additional fluid flow is the result, etc., etc., until that fourth pump, when everything gets real solid. In effect, the build up of pressure, each time you pump the pedal, results in forcing possible borderline seals to distort a bit, and to effectively increase their contact area with the piston and cylinder walls. For a very simple test of this, pump your right brake up, until it feels solid, then back off of the brake pedal, releasing all pressure. Then, very slowly, depress the brake pedal again. If it travels back to the firewall again, chances are that cylinder is bypassing. What's the solution? Rebuild the cylinder, if possible, or replace it with a new one. If this does not happen, then you have air in the system. The bypassing of a master cylinder is internal, so you will not likely notice any external leakage. In any case, do not ignore this situation. (Can you spell ground loop?) I hope this is what you find, and that I have been of some assistance, in some small way. If not, please let me know what you actually find out, so I may use it for future reference. Regards Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DenClay <DenClay(at)aol.com>
Date: May 01, 1998
Subject: Re: rv-8 leading edge
Hi folks, With my leading edge skins strapped and positioned to drill, the edges of the skins fit nice and tight to the foreward edges of the top and bottom outboard wing skins. However I can tell that the skins will not tightly contact the tips of the leading edge ribs. Should I work the skins on over more tightly and trim the overlap at the bottom skin, or does the curvature of the leading edge provide all the necessary strength? What say ye? Thanks Dennis Clay RV-8 #80473 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Pressure Testing Fuel Tanks
I used the ballon method and a spray bottle with some soapy water to check for leaks. I recommend the ballon as it provides a degree of safety as it would likely burst before you had enough pressure insider to damage the tank. Ed MAlexan533 wrote: > > I have just finished sealing my RV-8 tanks, and am wondering how long to wait > to pressure test? And what is the preferred method to do so? I am guessing I > should just go on with the center section and setting up the fuse jig, maybe > wait a month just to be sure the tanks are fully cured. When pressure testing, > I am afraid of overinflating; I guess the best method I have heard so far is > to put a cap on the vent outlet, slowly put air in through the fuel outlet > until the skin slightly pops up, then quickly put a cap on the fuel outlet, > followed by dipping the tank in a bathtub full of water. Any better ideas? How > about the balloon method? > Thanks > Von Alexander > RV-8#544 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 01, 1998
Subject: Re: Location Please
<< Would RV-listers please state your geographic location? thank you. >> John, How about you setting a good example. Your listing had no project or location. Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 1998
From: David and Melissa Hamilton <hamlton(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: rv-8 leading edge
With my leading edge skins strapped and positioned to drill, the edges of the >skins fit nice and tight to the foreward edges of the top and bottom outboard >wing skins. > >However I can tell that the skins will not tightly contact the tips of the >leading edge ribs. Should I work the skins on over more tightly and trim the >overlap at the bottom skin, or does the curvature of the leading edge provide >all the necessary strength? > >What say ye? > Dennis I pulled the skins down tight using truck straps and the wooden brackets shown in the plans. Mine are nice and snug. I did need to file about a 32nd off the bottom edge to get the skins to butt nicely to the bottom wing skins. Place the straps on top of ribs where possible. I know a 4 builder that cranked the straps so tight that he buckled the skin, so be carefull and proceed slowly. I didn't need anywhere near enough force to worry about buckling anything. > >Dave Hamilton rv-8 just finished the tanks :) # 80001 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-8A in MSP area
Date: May 01, 1998
Fellow Listers: John Morgan and the new tri-gear RV-8A have arrived in Minneapolis and will be at the Twin Cities RV Forum in Red Wing, MN on Saturday May 2. Program starts at 0845 with John speaking to the group at 3:00 pm. Forums, food, workshop, and RVs. Doug, pres, MN Wing ******************************************* Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Strobes From Cleaveland
Date: May 01, 1998
From: "William H. Watson" <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net>
That's Cleaveland Aircraft Tool, not Cleaveland, Ohio. In their new catalog I noticed a set of wingtip stobes/position lights/nav lights with two supplies, one for each wing tip. I ordered a set, just out of greed, to save so much money over the Whelen set from Spruce. ($610 vs $420). The heads sure look like Whelen; that would be $ 2 X $143. The power supply looks more like "home brew." Anyone have any experience with them? The FAR readers will probably ask if it meets spec - which is a good question. RV-6A - Skinning the left wing William H. Watson wmwatson(at)earthlink.net H: 650 254-1656 W: 408 553-4225 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV 4 Pat A <RV4PatA(at)aol.com>
Date: May 01, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 firewall assembly
In a message dated 4/30/98 6:05:00 PM, you wrote: >The manuual indicates that the >firewall stiffener angles are to be attached to the firewall but that the >corner holes are to be drilled/riveted later in assembly with the WD-402 >and WD-403 brackets. This step doesnt come until the entire structure is >completely assembled in the jig. If this is correct how do you dimple the >holes in the firewall and c'sink the angles for the AN426 rivets that go >here? Is there any reason why these weldments cant be riveted to the >firewall now before the firewall goes into the jig? I used universal head rivets on the weldments. I think you could leave the whole thing clecoed until this step if you want to. I would not rivet them on now, because you may have to modify them to get them to fit. I did. Yes, the angles go on the outside like dwg. 26 shows. As for the bottom flange, My manual says to leave it clecoed till you fit the bottom skin. Hope this helps. Where are you located? Pat Allender Iowa City RV-4 Finishing forever ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: May 01, 1998
Subject: uncertified engines vs certified
I am somewhat confused on the issue of certified vs uncertified engines. Example; a friend has an 0-320 that I am considering for my RV-8. He has done some major work on it(not an a&p), so to be legal I would need to remove the serial # plate and send it in to the FAA, or have a mechanic do a tear down and recertify it. Is this correct? Since I will be recieving a repairman certificate, would I legally be able to do major work on a certified lycoming? If not, I might as well have an uncertified engine so I can do my own work. Yes, I do know about making sure I know what I am doing on the engine; but the fact is, these engines are just not that complicated, if one is willing to learn. Kind of like the RV project itself; overwhelming to look at all the parts, but when built piece at a time, it all works out. Any help appreciated. Von Alexander Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 1998
From: jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson)
Subject: Minor accident 2 weeks ago in Minnesota
My wife and I were driving south on I-35 2 weeks ago, just passing the Owatonna airport. Winds were a little gusty, but not too bad, and mostly down the runway. I saw what appeared to be a homebuilt, but could have been an old production plane, having problems. From a mile away, it looked fabric-covered, but who can tell? Tail-dragger, anyways. The pilot obviously wasn't having a good time of it. Wings were waggling quite a bit, and it didn't look like a real stabilized approach. Touch down was okay, but even the roll out didn't look good. And it looked really bad when it ground looped. And the moral to this entire story is yet another reminder: before you go fly your RV, especially for crosswind landings or on short fields -- get some dual! Let's not scratch up our nice babies or make Van fly around to accident sites when the solution is so easy (and fun). -Joe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 01, 1998
From: Shelby.Smith(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: GLASAIR Crash in La.
but is talking about an incident at Arlington Airport in >Washington State, which is where Stoddard-Hamilton is located. The Louisiana >Glasair crash was a duel fatality, and was a separate incident. >Jim Nice >RV6A Jim and everybody, I apologize for not having/getting my info correct on this. Needless to say it affects us all when something like this happens. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net>
Subject: Location Please
Date: May 01, 1998
You are quite right, Bernie, I agree that location etc. makes a posting much better. John RV 6A , flying, 130 hours Newmarket, Ontario [John Cocker] . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: rv-8 leading edge
Date: May 01, 1998


April 23, 1998 - May 01, 1998

RV-Archive.digest.vol-ep