RV-Archive.digest.vol-eq
May 01, 1998 - May 09, 1998
>With my leading edge skins strapped and positioned to drill, the edges
of the
>>skins fit nice and tight to the foreward edges of the top and bottom
outboard
>>wing skins.
>>
>>However I can tell that the skins will not tightly contact the tips of
the
>>leading edge ribs. Should I work the skins on over more tightly and
trim the
>>overlap at the bottom skin, or does the curvature of the leading edge
provide
>>all the necessary strength?
>>
>>What say ye?
>>
>Dennis
>
>I pulled the skins down tight using truck straps and the wooden
brackets
>shown in the plans. Mine are nice and snug. I did need to file about
a
>32nd off the bottom edge to get the skins to butt nicely to the bottom
wing
>skins. Place the straps on top of ribs where possible. I know a 4
builder
>that cranked the straps so tight that he buckled the skin, so be
carefull
>and proceed slowly. I didn't need anywhere near enough force to worry
>about buckling anything.
>>
>>Dave Hamilton
>rv-8 just finished the tanks :)
>#
>80001
Greetings,
I concur. I had to trim away 1/32" from the bottom of both leading edge
skins to fit tight against the main bottom skin. To not have the leading
edge skin tight against the rib noses just looks bad...who knows what
aerodynamic or structural impact, if any it would have. It does take
some rather tight strapping to get it done, but as soon as I measured
the 1/32" overlap, the skin was perfectly tight against the ribs. This
does get into the "fine edge" of minimum rivet hole to edge distance
criteria, but there are so many rivets there, I don't see any adverse
impact from this.
I have pictures of the strapped leading edge skins on my web page if you
would like to have a look:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm
Enjoy!
Brian Denk
tanks, center section, etc...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
Von, I also have a uncertified O-320 redone by Hatch. I was told by Mr.
Hatch to send in the tag to the FAA and enter as such in the engine log. It
was discussed at an RV get together I attend once a month in Eugene that the
above is correct by most FAA inspectors. However there was one fellow there
that claimed he added digit to the serial number and thereby made it a
non-lyc. engine. Either way sounds to me as six of one and a half a dozen of
the other. All agreed at that meeting, most were flying their RV, that in
either way a repairman cert. will take care of the legal end of working on
that engine.
Good Day!
Denny
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
>Since I will be recieving a repairman certificate, would I legally be able
to do major work on a >certified lycoming?
Nope. Your repairman certificate is only good for the airframe (at least,
that's my interpretation of the regs here). Of course, you can do all the
work you want on an uncertified engine, lycoming or otherwise.
If the engine is certified and you want to maintain that status (to keep
the resale value as high as possible), you will only be able to do the same
work as if it was installed in a Cherokee, for instance, and this is
described and detailed in Parts 91 and 43, if I remember correctly.
Bruce Stobbe
Winsted, CT
RV-6
canopy stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | My RV-8 QB has arrived! |
Hello listers. Last night my RV-8 QB kit arrived. I picked it up at the
terminal myself, so Roadway would have to load it, then I parked the
truck outside my shop and took my time uncrating it right there. I had a
few hairy moments getting the slippery wings (they coat them with WD-40)
off the truck, but overall everything went well. There are a few
pictures up on my web page, and I will post more next week when I have
time to properly unpack everything.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Location Please |
> John RV 6A , flying, 130 hours
> Newmarket, Ontario
> [John Cocker] .
>
>
Newmarket, eh? I was flying with a friend in his GY 20 Minicab
(referred to in january's KP as "the RV-6 of 1962) around there last
Sunday. It sure was a beautiful day!
Hammy [CYVR] Richmond, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
fritz(at)opman.com, hpair(at)thegrid.net, russ(at)maui.net,
micheal_mcconnel(at)dell.com, budd(at)goodnet.com, bmmfarms(at)socencom.net,
douglas_b_dennis(at)marforres.usmc.mil, hovan(at)flash.net,
RedAvatrix(at)aol.com, gh334766(at)shellus.com, PLUMERO(at)aol.com,
roger_ritter(at)email.sps.mot.com, cptcaos(at)localnet.com.au,
sirs(at)neosoft.com, rocket2(at)etcrier.net, number63(at)Juno.com,
seibert(at)swbell.net, airflowinc(at)Juno.com
| Subject: | Lookout! Zeros!! |
Listers:
A bit of weird humor...
As prez of the local EAA chapter, I managed to get myself volunteered to help
with this weekends' Georgetown TX airshow publicity. This meant that I had to
be at the airport at 5 AM today, for the local news channel's early broadcast.
The weather guy did his forecast while setting in my bird, and then we got to
do a fly-by for the cameras.
Well, the theme of this years' show seems to be warbirds, and they had a Zero
replica and the "Devil Dog",a B-25 (PBJ-1-J actually) on display for the
cameras also. The Zero owner decided to join our fly-bys, and flew behind me.
You may have it figured out already, but I'll say that while turning from the
low pass to downwind, it was VERY concerning to be looking down the gun
barrels on a WW2 Japanese fighter!! The pilot would occaisonally transmit
(with an oriental accent) "Youuuuu diiiieeee, yankee dog!" and click his
transmit button several times. If not for the thought of the fellas who had
this view as their last, it really could have been funny.
I'll tell ya, some of these 'pilot guys' have a very strange sense of humor...
Check six!, 'cause I'm....
Out of the sun,
Mark
Austin, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
A friend was showing me in his glasair manual (well, he's not a
real good friend!) where it says gascolators are not made to be
pressurized, as with an inline electric fuel pump between it and
the fuel tank. It said it is not accepted practice to install
them after a fuel pump, as they are capable of leaking and
spraying fuel into the engine compartment or on the hot exhaust.
It recommended either building a metal shroud around it, incase
it does leak, to provide a safe path for the fuel to exit the
cowling, or replumbing it so it is being sucked through, not
pressurized. It is a good point, and something to think about.
Also, does anyone know of a rv fly in in Alabama sometime soon?
I heard it at the airport while ago but, no one knew for sure.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
I believe you will find that if the data plate is removed you can do
what you want
to the engine. If non approved work is accp on a certified eng. it is
no longer
certified. If a non licensed person performs work the eng. is no
longer
certified. If you use a certified eng. you as the ac builder or
certificated pilot
can perform what the powers to be call preventive maint. of which
there is
an approved list. You are required to comply with all ad and sb on
a certified
eng. which is usually benificial for reliability. Hope this helps.
Stewart Bergner A+p RVer273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RotaVR <RotaVR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Unsolicited Paintings |
All:
I recently received via U.S. mail an unsolicited painting of my RV-4 .
Evidently the artist had taken a snapshot of my aircraft while parked at
OshKosh last year, and then produced the painting from same.
The artist requests I send him $55 to keep this unsolicited painting, or,
contact him for further instructions on returning it. Supposedly at no cost
to me. That is except for the frustration and time wasted while dinking
around with this unsolicited junk mail.
I believe legally I am under no obligation to return same, nor to pay for it,
as it was never ordered by me in the first place. Much like if I drove by
your house, decided your grass needed cutting, then sent you a bill.
I'm curious as to how other RVers placed in this situation have responded?
Steve Schmitz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure Testing Fuel Tanks |
Von
I haven't heard of anyone else doing this or if it is an approved method.
I just simply poured in about 15 gallons of gas bloack off all out lets and
let the tank sit in various positions to cover all possible leaks. When I
removed one of the plugs from the vent there was a loud whooshing sound, I
found that just slooshing the fuel around created pressure!!!
----------
> From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Pressure Testing Fuel Tanks
> Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 6:58 PM
>
>
> I have just finished sealing my RV-8 tanks, and am wondering how long to
wait
> to pressure test? And what is the preferred method to do so? I am
guessing I
> should just go on with the center section and setting up the fuse jig,
maybe
> wait a month just to be sure the tanks are fully cured. When pressure
testing,
> I am afraid of overinflating; I guess the best method I have heard so far
is
> to put a cap on the vent outlet, slowly put air in through the fuel
outlet
> until the skin slightly pops up, then quickly put a cap on the fuel
outlet,
> followed by dipping the tank in a bathtub full of water. Any better
ideas? How
> about the balloon method?
> Thanks
> Von Alexander
> RV-8#544
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aaron Gleixner <agleix(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 to RV8A Conversion |
does anyone know exactly what's involved as far as modifying
>the wings ?
>I'm getting ready to order my fuselage...& I really love the look of
>the 8A
>
>Jim Wendel
>RV4 N43RV....1000hrs.
>RV8 80505.....Fuel Tanks
>
>
>
I ordered the RV8 wing kit and wanted to make the conversion to the 8A. The conversion
simply involves drilling out a few rivets and opening these same holes
for bolts. If you send the center spar section for the wing back to Vans with
a letter stating your intentions, they will do the conversion (I was told for
under $100). Hope this helps.
Aaron Gleixner
Wing Kit - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | nutplates - dimpled? |
My first nutplates... K1000-06 for elevator trim cover... attached with
AN426AD3-3 rivets... are the rivet holes in the nutplates to be dimpled so
they will lay flat on the inside of the assembly?... thanks.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A empennage 25088
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
--
>
>All:
>I recently received via U.S. mail an unsolicited painting of my RV-4 .
>Evidently the artist had taken a snapshot of my aircraft while parked at
>OshKosh last year,
I got one too, right after OshKosh. I share your sentiments, but I obliged
and sent it back with a note on my nickel, subsequent to that I recieved a
letter with cash for my postage and a polite note as well. I posted the same
question you did here, and got the answer that you offered.
I think this guy is trying and I had no hard feelings about it, I was not
moved by the painting however so I returned it. I think you can do with it
as you please. If I had liked it I would have gladly paid the asking price
for it.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowen.com> |
Importance: Normal
Which rivets did y'all use for the six rivets that hold together the HS411
assembly (The bearing in the center of the rear spar)? The plans call for
4-5s, but these only extends 1.0x the diameter past the assembly - 1.5x is
the rule, right? Van's tech. support said this was fine for this particular
part. Why? Is there some reason to deviate from the rule of thumb? May I
use longer rivets to achieve 1.5x?
Thanks,
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
RV-8 Emp.
Advance, NC (8A7)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman <Rvbirdman(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
Replying to Steve Schmitz regarding unsolicited painting he received of his
RV-4. Postal regs say you can regard any unordered merchandise as a gift and
are under no obligation to pay or return it. If I liked it enough I would
probably pay for it, if not I would throw it away and not pay. A personal
decision.
Gary Bray
RV-6 paint and interior
Bangor Maine area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David and Beth Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
Yes, I to received a painting of my RV-6A. Actually, I received some
correspondence from the artist with some sample pictures of his work first.
I very politely sent back the pictures with a "Thanks, but no thanks" note.
Well, about 4 - 6 weeks later I get this painting in the mail. At first, I
had the same reaction, why should I pay for this, I didn't order it. After
sitting on it for a couple of weeks, I decided it was worth the money and
sent him a check. In his letter, he offered to barter for tools, tapes,
etc. since he is currently building. He probably subscribes to this list as
well, hello, are you out there?
The guy really has a pretty good marketing scheme going. I mean after all,
who else is going to hand paint your airplane for $55. And after looking at
it, I thought he did a pretty good job, especially for the money. Give the
guy a little credit for coming up with a way to use his talents to pay for
the project.
If you don't like it, contact him on returning it. I believe he'll pay the
return postage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
>I recently received via U.S. mail an unsolicited painting of my RV-4 .
>Evidently the artist had taken a snapshot of my aircraft while parked at
>OshKosh last year, and then produced the painting from same.
>The artist requests I send him $55 to keep this unsolicited painting, or,
>contact him for further instructions on returning it. Supposedly at no cost
>to me. That is except for the frustration and time wasted while dinking
>around with this unsolicited junk mail.
>I believe legally I am under no obligation to return same, nor to pay for it,
>as it was never ordered by me in the first place. Much like if I drove by
>your house, decided your grass needed cutting, then sent you a bill.
>I'm curious as to how other RVers placed in this situation have responded?
>Steve Schmitz
$55 notwithstanding, how good was the painting?
The US Postal regulations state that after 30 days you may keep or destroy
unsolicited mechandise if the owner has not made arrangements to pick it up
(at no cost to you). It seems to follow that since you neither
commissioned nor requested the artist to do this painting that you could
keep it for free if the artist doesn't make arrangements to pick it up.
(Perhaps a UPS call tag?)
You are only under the obligation to make it available to whomever the
sender wishes to have pick it up.
I once got some merchandise incorrectly shipped to me by a company and
after several phone calls to their 800 number and repeated attempts to get
rid of it they finally decided it wasn't worth their trouble to have it
picked up! (Speaks volumes about the quality of their mechandise, doesn't it?)
I donated it to a local charity which runs a "thrift store".
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re:RV Flyin in Alabama? |
>Also, does anyone know of a rv fly in in Alabama sometime soon?
>I heard it at the airport while ago but, no one knew for sure.
>Thanks.
There are half dozen flying RVs around central Alabama. I haven't seen
anything about an "RV Flyin" but it is the season for flyins at all the
little airports around the State which have an "Airport Day". Perhaps one
of these is designated an "RV Flyin".
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< A friend was showing me in his Glasair manual where it says gascolators are
not made to be pressurized, as with an inline electric fuel pump between it
and
the fuel tank. >>
Everyone's got an opinion. Mine is, they can surely stand 5 PSI from the low
pressure Facet for the carbureted engines. This has been shown empirically.
But if you are paranoid or if you are using the higher pressure pumps for the
injected engines, go with the Andair gascolator.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
>I recently received via U.S. mail an unsolicited painting of my RV-4 .
>Evidently the artist had taken a snapshot of my aircraft while parked at
>OshKosh last year, and then produced the painting from same.
>The artist requests I send him $55 to keep this unsolicited painting, or,
This type of thing has happened to me several times over the years,
occaisionally with crafts materials, once with a multi-purpose tool, and
frequently magazines. A few even followed up with (empty) threats for
nonpayment. The result is the same in every case. Keep the
unordered/unsolicited merchandise, if you wish, or discard it if it is junk.
You don't even owe the 'artist' a thankyou - after all, the originator of
this con already owes you way more than the $55 for storage and handling fees.
Check with your local postmaster if you like, for peace of mind, but I'm
sure you'll find the painting is yours to keep.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
>>Since I will be recieving a repairman certificate, would I legally be able
>to do major work on a certified lycoming?
>Nope. Your repairman certificate is only good for the airframe (at least,
>that's my interpretation of the regs here). Of course, you can do all the
>work you want on an uncertified engine, lycoming or otherwise.
Well you can't *SIGN OFF* the major work, but anyone can work on an
airplane certified or otherwise, it is just required that the return to
service be signed off by an appropriately rated mechanic.
>If the engine is certified and you want to maintain that status (to keep
>the resale value as high as possible), you will only be able to do the same
>work as if it was installed in a Cherokee, for instance, and this is
>described and detailed in Parts 91 and 43, if I remember correctly.
>Bruce Stobbe
Bruce has an excellent point about resale value. If you pry the data plate
off the engine and declare it "uncertified" you just pried *THOUSANDS* of
dollars off the resale price as well! I just returned from Sun-N-Fun where
I saw several "experimental" engines with 0 SMOH for 1/2 the going rate for
the same engine certified. I know some of you are certain you will never
sell your engine, but what if you decide to convert to Harmon Rocket or
just want to get that extra 30 HP by going to O-360 from O-320.... You
could pay for all the mechanic work you will ever need during the entire
lifetime of your RV with 1/2 the cost of an engine. I feel that it is
false economy to buy a certified engine and then "de-certify" it. If you
bought parts and pieces and built an uncertified engine at low price, why
not! But if you paid top dollar for a fresh OH or new engine and then
proceeded to pry the data plate off it, that little bit of screwdriver work
gained you the ability to break into your engine and work on the guts
(which with a new OH you *HOPE* you don't have to do for 1500-2000 hours
anyway, right?) and it cost you about 1/2 of what you paid for the engine
in lost resale value.
Think about it like this... If you saw these 2 ads in TAP and were looking
for a low time or fresh OH engine for your RV, which engine would you want
to buy?
"O-320 E3D 2140TT 200SMOH by homebuilder. Engine removed for more power
runs good, All parts firewall forward except exhaust, no logs or data
plate experimental only $6500 Call Bubba"
"O-320 E3D 2500 TT 340 SMOH Removed from Wind damaged Piper 140. All ADs
complied with including Oil pump AD (SB 505 complied with). All accessories
available, $11,900 outright. XYZ Salvage 1-800-123-4567"
So, who are *YOU* gonna call? Think about it, we A&Ps are not so expensive
or unreasonable that we must be avoided at all costs.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pressure Testing Fuel Tanks |
joseph.wiza wrote:
>
>
> Von
> I haven't heard of anyone else doing this or if it is an approved method.
>I
> found that just slooshing the fuel around created pressure!!!
>
Any better
> ideas? How
> > about the balloon method?
> > Thanks
> > Von Alexander
> > RV-8#544
I just pressure tested a tank by using a (gasp!) condom. Please don't
ask how I came up with the idea. Honest mom, they handed 'em out at
school! ...But seriously, I put it over the end of a tube with a little
seal-lube (fuel-lube by another brand) and a ty-rap. Less pressure to
inflate than a balloon. Watched it overnight.
...By the way temperature changes during the test will affect the
results -I walked into the shop in the cold morning air and found my
condom had gone flacid overnight. A little heat in the room and that
soldier soon stood right up again like it had a dose of Vicodin. No
leaks. Perhaps folks should try fuel-lube and ty-raps with those things
in their more official usage... Just cinch that ty-rap down tight for
safety ;)
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
| From: | tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
I was told by a retired FAA inspector that once an engine is installed in
a experimental
aircraft it is no longer a certified engine even if it is new such as one
purchased from
Van's.
Can someone verify this?
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
Make some kind of permanent indication that the engine is no longer
certified. You might mark the data plate as experimental. They do this
to propellers by stamping experimental on the hub. I'm not sure I would
remove data plate except to stamp it. Then I would re-install it so I
(or any subsequent owner) would know what engine model it was for future
needs....
Phil
MAlexan533 wrote:
>
> I am somewhat confused on the issue of certified vs uncertified
> engines.
> Example; a friend has an 0-320 that I am considering for my RV-8. He
> has done
> some major work on it(not an a&p), so to be legal I would need to
> remove the
> serial # plate and send it in to the FAA, or have a mechanic do a tear
> down
> and recertify it. Is this correct? Since I will be recieving a
> repairman
> certificate, would I legally be able to do major work on a certified
> lycoming?
> If not, I might as well have an uncertified engine so I can do my own
> work.
> Yes, I do know about making sure I know what I am doing on the engine;
> but the
> fact is, these engines are just not that complicated, if one is
> willing to
> learn. Kind of like the RV project itself; overwhelming to look at all
> the
> parts, but when built piece at a time, it all works out.
> Any help appreciated.
> Von Alexander
> Oregon
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
Unistar Computers wrote:
>
>
> So, who are *YOU* gonna call? Think about it, we A&Ps are not so expensive
> or unreasonable that we must be avoided at all costs.
>
> Bob Steward, A&P IA
> AA-1B N8978L
> AA-5A N1976L
>
Bob
Even if the engine is not *certified* as you say by taking off the
data plate there will still be a line a mile long waiting to buy it
in the homebuilt market, the O-320 I took off my RV-6 was hardly
cool before another RV builder was there to buy it from me.
I am still not convinced that you have to take the data plate off
to do the work on your own engine and return it to service. I don't
have my repairman certificate here it front of me it is out in the
airplane, but I don't remember it saying that I can work on the
airframe only and only do the condition inspection on the airframe
and only return the airframe to service. As I understand it no matter
who works on the engine while it is in a homebuilt it will have to
be torn down and inspected by a certified mechanic before putting it
back on your old Factory Spam can. Just by the fact that a big share
of the engine prop combos on a lot of homebuilts are not certified
will render the engine non certified. This is just all my opinion
of course and has worked for me in almost thirty of flying homebuilts.
And yes there is still a place for A&Ps just not working on my
homebuilt. :-) I can certainly see this from an A&Ps point of view $$$
as you see the homebuilt market growing and factory aircraft market
shrinking.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
On the certificated engine subject. Did you know that if a propeller not
certified for a particular engine is installed on that engine, the engine
is
no longer certified as far as the faa is concerned. The same holds true
for fuel systems. If you say convert a carburated eng to fuel injection
which
was not originally certified on that eng. the eng . is no longer
certified.
An example is like when I installed airflow performance injection on my
0320. Does it ever end? Rver273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
Bob,
The regs state only a licensed mechanic may perform major maint. on
a certificated eng. there is a long list of pm type things a pilot /
builder
can do however. If you perform maint. you are not licenced for the eng
is no longer certified. Its plain and simple. All ADs and SBs must be
complied with and signed off by a rated mechanic to maintain
certification.
Rv273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carol Ricahrds <crcar(at)cc.newcastle.edu.au> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
>
>I am somewhat confused on the issue of certified vs uncertified engines.
>Example; a friend has an 0-320 that I am considering for my RV-8. He has
done
>some major work on it(not an a&p), so to be legal I would need to remove the
>serial # plate and send it in to the FAA, or have a mechanic do a tear down
>and recertify it. Is this correct? Since I will be recieving a repairman
>certificate, would I legally be able to do major work on a certified
lycoming?
>If not, I might as well have an uncertified engine so I can do my own work.
>Yes, I do know about making sure I know what I am doing on the engine; but
the
>fact is, these engines are just not that complicated, if one is willing to
>learn. Kind of like the RV project itself; overwhelming to look at all the
>parts, but when built piece at a time, it all works out.
>Any help appreciated.
>Von Alexander
>Oregon
>
>
>
>Von and Readers,
I can't give you the legal requirements regarding the service and
maintenance of your Lycoming, but as an RV-6 builder I found Lycoming's
Piston Engine Repair School to be good value for money. $400 for 4 day's
training, plus all their relevant service bulletins, sevice letters and
service instructions - about 15 lbs worth. I won't be re-building an
engine, but I would consider this course as a good prerequisite if I
were. I wrote a short article for the RV-Ator late last year. Good
luck with your quest. Sam Richards, Newcastle NSW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
I was going to send this to Tony, and possibly copy Von, but there seems to be
a lot of misinformation out there, and maybe everyone could benefit, so here
goes. (and yes, I do have my firesuit on.)
Tony
I believe that your retired FAA inspector friend has erred.
When you buy a certified engine from Lycoming, operate and maintain it to
Lycoming specifications, and you make no unauthorized changes to the engine,
it is a Lycoming engine. It makes no difference whether you install it on an
experimental aircraft, or a spam can. The same holds true for a certificated
propeller.
In such cases, it is the airframe that is experimental, which is not true for
the engine and prop. That is why we paint "EXPERIMENTAL" on our airframes, and
are required to place a warning placard on our airplanes, so potential
"passengers" can read it.
There are Aircraft log books, (for the airframe) Engine log books, (for the
engine) and Propeller log books for the propeller. There are reasons for this.
If I buy a certified engine, and a certified C/S prop for my RV-4, then
sometime during the life of the airplane, I prang the airframe, but do not
damage the engine or prop, I can still sell my engine and prop to a needy
fellow who owns a spam can, providing his airplane calls for that engine and
prop combination, and all of my records are up to par.
A certified engine and prop, operated and maintained to OEM specifications,
doesn't care what kind of airframe it is tied to. It could just as well be a
Cessna 152, or a Cherokee 140.
I agree with what one of the listers says. If you decertify a Lycoming engine,
regardless of how or why you do it, you have effectively and fiscally, cut
your own throat.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Regards
Wendell B. Ward, A&P WBWard(at)AOL.COM
Memphis, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: nutplates - dimpled? |
John Bright wrote:
> My first nutplates... K1000-06 for elevator trim cover... attached with
> AN426AD3-3 rivets... are the rivet holes in the nutplates to be dimpled so
> they will lay flat on the inside of the assembly?
Yes, They need to be dimpled....
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993
Pine Jucntion Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | NAPA 7220 Primer |
I ordered a can in Seattle area, and it was not made by Sherwin Williams,
but rather Martin Senour. Haven't used it. It cost $5.95 or something
like that.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, wiring
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Mehrhoff" <99789978(at)email.msn.com> |
Where do you find a Andar gascolator?
Stan Mehrhoff
RV-8 finish kit, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gascolator
>
>
><< A friend was showing me in his Glasair manual where it says gascolators
are
>not made to be pressurized, as with an inline electric fuel pump between it
>and
> the fuel tank. >>
>
>Everyone's got an opinion. Mine is, they can surely stand 5 PSI from the
low
>pressure Facet for the carbureted engines. This has been shown
empirically.
>
>But if you are paranoid or if you are using the higher pressure pumps for
the
>injected engines, go with the Andair gascolator.
>
>-GV
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | HELP! Which -6 cowl have I got? |
I received my finishing kit mid 94, right at the time Vans were
standardising on the CS cowl for all kits and providing the 2 1/4 "
prop extension to replace the 4" extension.
I am about to order the prop and extension so I can fit my cowl. Does
anybody know how to tell the difference between the old cowl and the
CS version so I can identify which one I have without hanging the
engine?
My cowls are just 36" long. It's an RV-6.
Thanks
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 tailwheel on, main gear happening
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
Just checking out there to see how many rvers are using the Airflow
Performance
fuel injection. I am running it on my RV4 and am willing to share
installation
and operating data. Stew, RV4 denver co
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Coleman, Dave, R" <david.r.coleman(at)bt.com> |
Stan,
Try the Aircraft Spruce Catalog page 152. I have one and they are
excellent!!
David Coleman
London UK
RV6 Finishing G-RVET
----------
From: Stan Mehrhoff
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gascolator
Date: 02 May 1998 12:57
Where do you find a Andar gascolator?
Stan Mehrhoff
RV-8 finish kit, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gascolator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
>Which rivets did y'all use for the six rivets that hold together the HS411
>assembly (The bearing in the center of the rear spar)? The plans call for
>4-5s, but these only extends 1.0x the diameter past the assembly - 1.5x is
>the rule, right? Van's tech. support said this was fine for this particular
>part. Why? Is there some reason to deviate from the rule of thumb? May I
>use longer rivets to achieve 1.5x?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Larry
Larry,
I found that Van's will frequently spec rivets that are too short. It is
perfectly fine to go up to the next size rivet as long as it doesn't bend
over while driving. You can also trim the next size rivet to get the 1.5d
pre-driven length.
Van's ships AN426AD3-3.5 rivets. I've heard these referred to as
"half-height" rivets. Aircraft Spruce stocks AN426AD3-4.5 and AN426AD3-5.5
. Do yourself a favor and get 1/4# each of these. Van's never included
them in any of the kits for my -6A. There are many places on the airframe
where these will come in very handy. Granted, they will not help you now
with the 1/8" rivets, but will be used frequently during construction.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick & Barbara Osgood" <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
Sometime ago, I received a copy of directions to make the RV6A fuselage
jig from 3/4" plywood. These were step by step with measurements and
required 3 sheets of plywood. My computer recently burped and I lost
that info along with the name of who supplied it. I am about to start
this end of the project so... if anyone has these plans/directions I
would appreciate getting another copy sent.
Thanks
Rick Osgood, Minneapolis, MN
directions to
make the RV6A fuselage jig from 3/4" plywood. These were step by
step with
measurements and required 3 sheets of plywood. My computer recently
burped and I
lost that info along with the name of who supplied it. I am about to
start this
end of the project so... if anyone has these plans/directions I would
appreciate
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
<3.0.1.32.19980501214417.00f23838(at)pop.mindspring.com>
>Unistar Computers wrote:
>> So, who are *YOU* gonna call? Think about it, we A&Ps are not so expensive
>> or unreasonable that we must be avoided at all costs.
>> Bob Steward, A&P IA
>Bob
>Even if the engine is not *certified* as you say by taking off the
>data plate there will still be a line a mile long waiting to buy it
>in the homebuilt market, the O-320 I took off my RV-6 was hardly
>cool before another RV builder was there to buy it from me.
I agree that there are those who will buy your engine, the issue is at
*WHAT* price? Without proper logs and Data plate the value of the engine
is greatly diminished. If you paid $18K new and sell for $8K with 500TT on
it as "decertified" then it cost you $20/hr for depreciation and
decertification. Those numbers are very realistic based on what I saw at
S-N-F. There were numerous engines (o-320 and O-360) 0 SMOH for $6K-$7K
with no data plate, and a complete list of parts used in OH, some even by
"brand name" shops. Surely you couldn't have saved $10,000 in A&P related
engine maintenance in 500 hours by doing the work yourself. If a 500 hour
engine required *ANYTHING* beyond oil changes and cleaning sparkplugs most
owners would be hopping mad.
>I am still not convinced that you have to take the data plate off
>to do the work on your own engine and return it to service. I don't
>have my repairman certificate here it front of me it is out in the
>airplane, but I don't remember it saying that I can work on the
>airframe only and only do the condition inspection on the airframe
>and only return the airframe to service.
*IF* you decertify the engine then the builder with his repairman's
certificate may do whatever it takes to make his plane fly and do the
annual condition inspection. I'm quite sure that you can find hundreds of
planes out there with data plates on the engines. That only means that it
was at one time a certified engine. If it is ever to be sold and used on
any certified application again the entire history of the engine must be
known and any work *NOT SIGNED OFF* by a certificated mechanic must be
rechecked and authorized for return to service. This might get pretty
expensive if the engine has to be opened to gain access to the components
worked on.
> As I understand it no matter
>who works on the engine while it is in a homebuilt it will have to
>be torn down and inspected by a certified mechanic before putting it
>back on your old Factory Spam can. Just by the fact that a big share
>of the engine prop combos on a lot of homebuilts are not certified
>will render the engine non certified. This is just all my opinion
>of course and has worked for me in almost thirty of flying homebuilts.
It is true that your engine is not "certified" while on a homebuilt. But
it can be used on a cerified airframe with nothing more than an A&P logbook
entry *IF* (and this is the point I've been trying to make on and off the
list with several of you) you have maintained it to "certified"
specifications all the while it has been detached from the original
airframe. Thus if you had any non Preventative Maintenance done (or at
least signed off) by your local A&P or IA, you could then resell the engine
at much higher price recouping more of what you paid.
All this is not relevant if the engine was not traceable or maintained
correctly from the start. You bought an "experimental" engine or built it
from non certified parts, etc. In which case you have an "inexpensive"
engine to start with. I just want to get the word out that trashing the
certification on an $18,000 NEW Lycoming so that you can do "major work" on
it yourself is quite expensive. Certainly more than hiring even the most
outrageously expensive FBO to work on it for the life of the engine.
>And yes there is still a place for A&Ps just not working on my
>homebuilt. :-) I can certainly see this from an A&Ps point of view $$$
>as you see the homebuilt market growing and factory aircraft market
>shrinking.
>Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
Jerry as you can see from my Email address I work for a Computer company.
I don't maintain their aircraft. (We don't have a company plane.) I find
that people are willing to pay $50 an hour to have their PC worked on, but
scream bloody murder if you charge them $25 per hour to work on their
plane. Why is that? I've never felt the need to buy liability insurance
for my work as a computer technician, but you can bet I've got $1M
liability for my work as an A&P IA. I'm not worried about homebuilts
taking over the market and leaving me with no airplanes to work on. I
won't live to see the day that amateur built aircraft rival production
planes in total numbers. (Although it sure would be neat if there were
that many homebuilts out there.) I just want builders to see that they
can have their cake and eat it too. Buy a certified engine (if you want
to) and then pay a *VERY* small amount in terms of the cost of the engine
to have someone authorized by the FAA sign off the work you feel you need
to do to the engine. IF you can't get the work signed off, consider why
that might be. You didn't use certified parts? Your shop practices are so
poor that the mechanic is scared to sign it off? You did all the work
*FIRST* and then go trolling around the airport with your logbook and $50
looking for someone to return it to service?
If you involve the mechanic from the start you will have little trouble
getting any approved work signed off. Don't ask him to sign off your
GO-480 cylinders bolted to an O-320 case. Do ask him to supervise your
work and then have him sign your mechanic's logbook to show that you have
accomplished so many hours under direct supervision of an A&P so that *YOU*
can begin to meet the requirements to get your own A&P. Face it, if you
built the entire plane you have done the pratical work, now all you need is
a little study work for the tests and approval to take the written and
practical tests! Many FSDOs will give approval for the tests based on
building an airplane. Ask yours about it.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
don't send FAA your data plate. What are you going to do for one if you
need one later? My engine was modified quite visibly when FAA certified
airplane and they didn't have any concern about it. I even had the 25
hour fly-off as applies to homebuilts with certified engines verses the
40 hours for non certified engines. I had put Total Seal rings in the
pistons, welded fittings on the sump for inverted oil, and put a fuel
servo on in place of the carburetor. I pointed all this out to the
examining Fed who said it looked good! Any one of the things I did
voided the certification as we know it to be. The FAA was well aware
that the engine was modified to the point that it didn't meet the
criteria for standard certification. I marked up everything I had done
in the engine log and left the data plate intact for
Identification...This is on Pitts S1S, been flying 17 years. What's a
Pitts?
Phil Looking at plans and making little pieces for RV6.
Litchfield, Illinois
Carol Ricahrds wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I am somewhat confused on the issue of certified vs uncertified
> engines.
> >Example; a friend has an 0-320 that I am considering for my RV-8. He
> has
> done
> >some major work on it(not an a&p), so to be legal I would need to
> remove the
> >serial # plate and send it in to the FAA, or have a mechanic do a
> tear down
> >and recertify it. Is this correct? Since I will be recieving a
> repairman
> >certificate, would I legally be able to do major work on a certified
> lycoming?
> >If not, I might as well have an uncertified engine so I can do my own
> work.
> >Yes, I do know about making sure I know what I am doing on the
> engine; but
> the
> >fact is, these engines are just not that complicated, if one is
> willing to
> >learn. Kind of like the RV project itself; overwhelming to look at
> all the
> >parts, but when built piece at a time, it all works out.
> >Any help appreciated.
> >Von Alexander
> >Oregon
> >
> >
> >
> >Von and Readers,
>
> I can't give you the legal requirements regarding the service and
> maintenance of your Lycoming, but as an RV-6 builder I found
> Lycoming's
> Piston Engine Repair School to be good value for money. $400 for 4
> day's
> training, plus all their relevant service bulletins, sevice letters
> and
> service instructions - about 15 lbs worth. I won't be re-building an
> engine, but I would consider this course as a good prerequisite if I
> were. I wrote a short article for the RV-Ator late last year. Good
> luck with your quest. Sam Richards, Newcastle NSW
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
RotaVR wrote:
>
>
> All:
> I recently received via U.S. mail an unsolicited painting of my RV-4 .
> Evidently the artist had taken a snapshot of my aircraft while parked at
> OshKosh last year, and then produced the painting from same.
> The artist requests I send him $55 to keep this unsolicited painting, or,
> contact him for further instructions on returning
Steve,
Definately a unique marketing plan! I haven't seen these paintings so I
don't know the quality, but I talked to an artist about doing an RV-6a
painting for my office and it was going to run between $350 - $500
without a frame. The $55 sounds like a bargain!!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
Anthony:
What does it say on your "operating limitations" issued by the FAA
(DAR) when they licensed your aircraft? N157GS says that the engine
will be operated in accordance with limitations for a Lycoming O-320
B2B. I pointed out that I had converted it to Constant speed
operation, added the welded on port for inverted oil, and added a B &
C non-certified alternator. N157GS was licensed with a 25 hour flight
test period.
What does it say on the repairman certificate? As I understand it,
the repairman can do ANYTHING an A & P can do on that particular
airplane. There are non A & P professionals who work on and sign off
certificated work at Repair Stations. I may be wrong, but I believe
that your Repairman Certificate allows you to sign off anything on
YOUR airplane. (Not on someone elses airplane.) If you have the
Repairman certificate and work on your engine, please log and sign it
off in the log book.
I cannot use a Repairman certificate with my airplane because I have
an A & P license. My Operating Limitations say that an annual
conditional inspection must be performed by an A & P. I have used my
A & P license for other RV builders who are not flying for NO CHARGE.
That is my standard FEE for RV builders who are just about finished or
are flying.
Just my opinion. Saw the long thread that is going. Most did not
agree with what I am posting. So am posting my difference of opinion.
Since I have the FAA A & P license, the consequences do not apply to
me.
---Anthony J Castellano wrote:
>
Castellano)
>
> I was told by a retired FAA inspector that once an engine is
installed in
> a experimental
> aircraft it is no longer a certified engine even if it is new such
as one
> purchased from
> Van's.
> Can someone verify this?
>
> Tony Castellano
> tcastella(at)juno.com
> Hopewell Junction, NY
> RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
<3.0.1.32.19980501214417.00f23838(at)pop.mindspring.com> <3.0.1.32.19980502081203.00f234fc(at)pop.mindspring.com>
Unistar Computers wrote:
***A lot of good information in a previous post snipped***
> *IF* you decertify the engine then the builder with his repairman's
> certificate may do whatever it takes to make his plane fly and do the
> annual condition inspection. I'm quite sure that you can find hundreds of
> planes out there with data plates on the engines. That only means that it
> was at one time a certified engine.
--
Bob
You makes some good points, although I would guess that a very small
percentage of the engines we use go back on factory aircraft.
When I had my RV inspected the FAA asked me who the person was that
signed off the work done on the O-320 I had in my RV and if he was a
"certified mechanic" which he is not. They then asked me if I could
prove the ADs had been complied with that were listed in the log book
which I could by having receipts and part numbers. Not once was
it ever mentioned that my engine was not certified or was it suggested
that I give up the data plate.
> I'm not worried about homebuilts
> taking over the market and leaving me with no airplanes to work on. I
> won't live to see the day that amateur built aircraft rival production
> planes in total numbers.
Bob I did not mean that you yourself was worried about not having airplanes
to work on, but there are very many A&Ps that make a living working on
airplanes that are very resentful of the fact we as builders can build an
airplane and do the maintenance on it without benefit of their help.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< Where do you find an Andair gascolator? >>
Where else? ACS and Chief have them. Check the Yeller Pages on the net for
phone and other contact info.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
>
>RotaVR wrote:
>>
>>
>> All:
>> I recently received via U.S. mail an unsolicited painting of my RV-4 .
>> Evidently the artist had taken a snapshot of my aircraft while parked at
>> OshKosh last year, and then produced the painting from same.
>> The artist requests I send him $55 to keep this unsolicited painting, or,
>> contact him for further instructions on returning
>
>Steve,
>
>Definately a unique marketing plan! I haven't seen these paintings so I
>don't know the quality, but I talked to an artist about doing an RV-6a
>painting for my office and it was going to run between $350 - $500
>without a frame. The $55 sounds like a bargain!!
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok
>-6a
>
Jerry, Get a good photographer, preferably a pilot. This was done with
my first span can, (Piper 235). It was enlarged to a 11x14 and nicely
framed at a frame shop. Cost nowhere near your artists quotes. A quality
photograph will beat a good artists representation any day IMHO.
Bruce Knoll
RV6 empennage
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
I want to thank all you listers for the response on uncertified engines; what
an education! In my situation, my friend had the 0-320 in his RV-4, and then
decertified it when he did a top overhaul. He is very mechanically inclined,
and used a Lycoming O'haul manual as well as other experienced help (but no
A&P's). The engine was missing the logs when he got it, but he was able to
trace down the previous owners of the aircraft it came out of. He also kept a
written log of every single step and part #s, etc he used in the top overhaul,
and get this, a complete video of the whole thing! If you are going to
decertify, this would be invaluable to the next owner, because it allows him
to determine what was done and how. The engine now has 500 hours on it since
top overhaul, and is the tightest, smoothest, most leakfree lycoming I have
ever seen! So I guess what we learn is, yes, there are advantages to
decertifying an engine, but don't do it on an newer one, because the value
reduction will be too much. Just my opinion.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544 Just finished the tanks, and about now, I am real glad I am not
building a plastic airplane!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
I am interested in obtaining my A & P license after building my RV-8. Has
anyone else done this? What exactly is involved? What study materials are
required and where do you get them?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rduffy(at)servecom.picker.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NAPA 7220 Primer |
Ron, Look again closely at the can. It says it was made FOR Martin
Senour, not BY them. I tested it on a couple pieces of scrap, then
used it on elevator stiffeners. So far, I like it. It meets all my
current requirements of being convenient, and anything but green :-)
I plan to continue using it.
Russell Duffy
RV-8A (expecting wings in June)
Navarre, FL
> I ordered a can in Seattle area, and it was not made by Sherwin Williams,
> but rather Martin Senour. Haven't used it. It cost $5.95 or something
> like that.
>
> Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, wiring
> Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Devlin" <jdevlin(at)americus.net> |
| Subject: | Canopy Forming RV-6A Tip Up Followup |
Listers,
Thanks for the responses. The technique of reheating the distorted
area and reforming didn't work at all. Making a form wasn't tried due to
the complexity and low likelihood of success.
Recommend builders, who haven't started the canopy, delete the
suggestion of placing a heater under the canopy. Guess I'll chalk this one
up to one of those Lifetime Brain Farts (LBF).
New canopy going on order.
Best regards,
John, Southwest Georgia
LBF Poster Boy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
| Subject: | Re:uncertified engines vs certified |
Didn't the FAA announce changes in the way homebuilts are to be registered at last
years Oshkosh? My understanding is that they want to be able to identify the type
of airplane and engine even if it is experimental and/or non certified so that
the
owners will recieve all safety related notices.
As it was (is?) I could register my RV-6 as a "SMIDLER SPECIAL" or "Franks Six"
with a "Bob's 0-360" non certified engine (actually a Lycoming 0-360 A1A). There
would be no way for the FAA to easily search the data base to send me a notice
on
a problem with this engine or airframe. This is also why we don't really know
how
many RV's are flying.
Frank Smidler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAIN POOF <RAINPOOF(at)aol.com> |
I have an 0-320 150 HP with 2200 total time and 1100 since major. I believe it
is the A2A or B, it originally came out of a Tri-pacer and most recently a
Super Cub that was upgraded to 180 HP. The compression is in the high 70's and
all accessories are included. crated ready to ship. Location in Battleground,
Wa. I have decided to go with the 0-360. $7500. Firm
Jerry Engel
RV-6A ready for fuselage
Rainpoof(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Torque Matco Nose Wheel |
Today I assembled my main wheels and started on the nose wheel. I am
always surprised at how little force it takes to develop 90 inch pounds
of torque, the spec on the Parker/Cleveland wheels.
When I got to the Matco nose wheel I realized that the AN4 bolts were
REALLY tight. The break-away torque was 175 in-lbs. I was ready to
throw away the bolts, thinking they had been severely over torqued, when
I noted that the head was marked "MAC X". My reference books tell me
this is a special bolt.
Does anyone have the torque specs for the Matco wheels?
By the way, I'm not ready for the wheels yet, but I am concerned that
the imported thing purported to be a nose wheel tire is so badly
distorted that it will have over 1/4 inch radial and lateral runout when
mounted! I wanted to get it mounted and under pressure to see if it
stretches round before complaining to Van's!
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
started on
the nose wheel. I am always surprised at how little force it takes
to
develop 90 inch pounds of torque, the spec on the Parker/Cleveland
that the
AN4 bolts were REALLY tight. The break-away torque was 175
in-lbs. I
was ready to throw away the bolts, thinking they had been severely over
torqued,
when I noted that the head was marked "MAC X". My reference
books tell
Matco
but I am
concerned that the imported thing purported to be a nose wheel tire is
so badly
distorted that it will have over 1/4 inch radial and lateral runout when
mounted! I wanted to get it mounted and under pressure to see if
it
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
<< What does it say on the repairman certificate? As I understand it,
the repairman can do ANYTHING an A & P can do on that particular
airplane. There are non A & P professionals who work on and sign off
certificated work at Repair Stations. I may be wrong, but I believe
that your Repairman Certificate allows you to sign off anything on
YOUR airplane. (Not on someone elses airplane.) If you have the
Repairman certificate and work on your engine, please log and sign it
off in the log book. >>
Gary & Company,
I know this has been beaten to death before but
here it is once more.
FAR 65.104 subpart (B)
The holder of a repairman certificate (experimental aircraft
builder) may perform condition inspections on the aircraft constructed by the
holder in accordance with the operating limitations of that aircraft.
43.3 subpart C.
The holder of a repairman certificate may perform maintenance
and preventative maintenance as provided in Part 65.
There is a standard repairman and an Experimental repairman. As you can see
you are alowed to do preventative maintenance ( something that can be
accomplished with a pilots liscense) and condition inspections. Thats it.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
<3.0.1.32.19980501214417.00f23838(at)pop.mindspring.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>>>Since I will be recieving a repairman certificate, would I legally
>be able
>>to do major work on a certified lycoming?
>
>>Nope. Your repairman certificate is only good for the airframe (at
>least,
>>that's my interpretation of the regs here).
>From the understanding that I have of the regs, this is not correct.
I am certainly no expert on the FAR's (particularly when so many of them
are up to the FAA's interpolation depending on the situation at the
moment), but there seems to be a lot of misinformation always floating
around relating to this subject.
I don't have a copy of the FAR's in front of me at this time so I can't
quote directly but the beginning of part 45 has a statement that in
general says "this part does not apply to any aircraft which has been
issued an experimental certificate of airworthiness".
This basically means that any reg. in the FAR's related to maint. on an
aircraft (in part 45) in regards to who can do what, etc.; they do not
apply to any aircraft with an experimental C of A (even a war bird that
is flying in the experimental/exhibition category)
With this being the case, anyone can do any type/level of maint or repair
work on a home built kit plane (even if the bought it from someone
else... I.E. they were not the builder) and then sign off the work
(engine or airframe). The repairmans certificate is only to give you
approval to do the condition inspection (annual) to meet the requirement
that is in the regs (and most all operating limitations) that paraphrased
says "To be legal for flight this aircraft will have been inspected in
accordance with A.C.43.13-2 sub part D by a certified A/P mechanic or a
certified repairman (holder of repairmans certificate).
The EAA published an excellent article a couple years ago on this very
subject, but it only appeared in the Experimenter and not many
homebuilders saw it.
The other problem with this subject is that every FAA employee that you
talk to will give you a different answer to questions on the subject.
Most that I have ever talked to though, feel that even if all log book
entrys look up to snuff that removing a "certified engine from any
homebuilt would probably require at least some type of compliance
inspection to prove that it is in certified condition".
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Daniel H. Morris III wrote:
>
>
> If you are looking for aluminum Scat duct flanges Aircraft Spruce carries
> them for about $6 in many common sizes.
>
> Dan Morris
>
Dan
the smallest flange A/C Spruce sells is 1".
Why is it so hard to find a 3/4" flange?
Craig Hiers
Tallahassee,FL.
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Unsolicited Paintings |
You are under no obligation whatever to store, keep, safeguard, or
otherwise look after, pay for, or keep for pickup, any junk sent to you
without your prior agreement. In fact, you would be wise to simply
inform such persons that you are charging them $25/day storage and
safekeeping fees for each day they fail to recover the merchandise at
their own expense.
Attorney at Law, RV-6A
Salida, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: uncertified engines vs certified |
Tony,
This is fairly well documented if I could only remember where. In the
meanwhile this is what I know.
True and not true. Once installed in an experimental it can not be
installed in a certified airplane without overhaul. If you remove the
dataplate, it is not certified until it is overhauled and if you still have
the dataplate it is reinstalled. If you loose the dataplate you may have
problems getting a new one issued, but it is not impossible. It is
interesting to note that FAR part 45 prohibits the removal of the dataplate
from a certified product except in certain cases.
Dan Morris
>I was told by a retired FAA inspector that once an engine is installed in
>a experimental
>aircraft it is no longer a certified engine even if it is new such as one
>purchased from
>Van's.
>Can someone verify this?
>
>Tony Castellano
>tcastella(at)juno.com
>Hopewell Junction, NY
>RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Report from Red Wing! |
All,
A brisk breeze was blowing when I slipped the surly bonds and winged
northward to the land of Viking ancestors gathered to celebrate the small
plane we all love.... ah hell I'm Not Austin, I got up, it was cold, and I
went to Redwing for the RV Flyin. I was there for a couple hours before I
had to leave for St Paul to fly a mission in the B25.
The turnout was good 1 RV-8A courtesy of John Morgan of Van's, probably 25
other assorted RV's. I would estimate over 100 people milling around. I
was planing on stopping by later in the afternoon with the bomber, but a
thundershower over Redwing prevented that so I didn't get back. The RV-8
looked really nice! I met some other listers there, wish I could have
stayed for more.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)jps.net> |
| Subject: | Unsolicited Paintings |
Importance: Normal
Steve,
Contact your local postmaster for details but you are under NO obligation to
pay for anything you recieve unsolicited through the mail. The postmaster
may indeed be interested in who sent you the painting....
> I believe legally I am under no obligation to return same,
> nor to pay for it,
> as it was never ordered by me in the first place.
You are correct. It's yours to keep and you don't have to pay for it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Report from Red Wing! |
Doug, You should have stayed, we stayed and waited for the big sound of the
rite, right, Wright,???? 2600s. Can you imagine, 100 or so RVers
sitting on the edge of their seats ignoring the speaker, interupting to say
shhhhh, I think I hear it, and all 100 charging for the door only to find
that its still raining and that sound was some guys stomach. We were so
disappointed!!!!
All seriousness aside, Glad you made it on the mission, assuming that it
was successfull agin. Sure hope you didnt do the dreaded 0 flap approach to
Fleming.
But i really want to thank Doug and Jim and all the other helpers
responsible for a great gathering at Red Wing.
Approximatly 25 beautiful RV 4s, 6s, one 3 and the 8A were present.
Twas a great way to spend a rainy Saturday in SE Minn.
LKDXRV8Wannabee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tie-downs arrived. Where to get. |
Hi Gary,
I was wondering if you could help me out here. I have several "kits" on
backorder form a few RVers who are still building their RV's and have been
in no big hurry to get the Ti-downs. (except like you, they are eager to
hold their first Titanium item). They don't know how long the ropes need to
be for a low wing RV, as their planes aren't finished yet (I too don't know,
as I don't have an RV yet).
Could you please tell me what length you came up with as an ideal length
for your RV?
I got the bags yesterday, and I'm getting ready to send out the Kits now.
Thank you,
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from Red Wing! |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
> A brisk breeze was blowing when I slipped the surly bonds and winged
> northward to the land of Viking ancestors gathered to celebrate the small
> plane we all love.... ah hell I'm Not Austin, I got up, it was cold, and I
> went to Redwing for the RV Flyin. I was there for a couple hours before I
> had to leave for St Paul to fly a mission in the B25.
>
> The turnout was good 1 RV-8A courtesy of John Morgan of Van's, probably 25
> other assorted RV's. I would estimate over 100 people milling around. I
> was planing on stopping by later in the afternoon with the bomber, but a
> thundershower over Redwing prevented that so I didn't get back. The RV-8
> looked really nice! I met some other listers there, wish I could have
> stayed for more.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
> www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
Man was that one great event...can't wait until next year. Even saw the
Pink Panther for the first time! Helping build the tail got me
motivated! I saw that I don't have to be scared of it anymore! Thanks
to all who organized it...see you all at the fall picnic.
Scott, getting ready and fired up.
--
Gotta Fly or
Gonna Die !
--Ask me about my
Aeronca Super Chief--
amended 8-29-97: Now after feeling the "Need for Speed", building an
RV-4!
No, the Super Chief is NOT for sale :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RotaVR <RotaVR(at)aol.com> |
Someone had inquired as to the quality of my unsolicited painting. Well,
obviously in my opinion not worth $55. :))
It is not the quality, or lack there-of that perturbs me. A sore spot of mine
is unsolicited phone sales, junk e-mail, cable companies providing unrequested
upgrades then billing for same, etc. etc.
Its the young mans marketing techhnique. Sounds like something one of those
plastic airplane builders would do. :)
Enough. Thanks to everyone for their input !
Steve s.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel injection |
Since so many people responded to this subject, I am replying on the rv
list.
The Airflow Performance Fuel injection system is a terrfic system. I
did find
it to be impossible to install the purge valve as it was supplied
however. I
worked out a way to remote it from the flow divider which worked great.
I sent
them photos and they worked out a fix. This was a problem on the rv4
because
of the
tight cowl on top. I cant speak for other rvs but I suspect the rv6 and rv8
would be no problem. Any way it is an excellent system. Smooth !! All the
installation parts are
included and adapt to vans airbox easily. It is engineered very well. It
comes with
the boost pump/ bypass in one neat assbly. In cruise you can lean till it
quits and
it stays smooth till it stops. As close as I can figure I burn about 1/2 gph
less than a
carburated eng. Stew, rv4 273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty Emrath" <emrath(at)msn.com> |
Stan, during my visit to S&F I picked up one of Andair Ltd. business
cards and brochure. The brochure lists Chief, Aircraft Spruce, Avery
Tools and Wicks. BTW call Owen Phillips at 44 (0) 1705 47391 in the UK
or send E-mail to Andair(at)Andair.CO.UK. The web site is
www.andair.co.uk. Good luck!
Marty Emrath RV6 wings due any day, TN
-----Original Message-----
From: Stan Mehrhoff <99789978(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gascolator
>
>Where do you find a Andar gascolator?
>
>Stan Mehrhoff
>RV-8 finish kit, TN
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 8:36 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Gascolator
>
>
>>
>>
>><< A friend was showing me in his Glasair manual where it says
gascolators
>are
>>not made to be pressurized, as with an inline electric fuel pump
between it
>>and
>> the fuel tank. >>
>>
>>Everyone's got an opinion. Mine is, they can surely stand 5 PSI from
the
>low
>>pressure Facet for the carbureted engines. This has been shown
>empirically.
>>
>>But if you are paranoid or if you are using the higher pressure pumps
for
>the
>>injected engines, go with the Andair gascolator.
>>
>>-GV
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
picked up one
of Andair Ltd. business cards and brochure. The brochure lists
Chief,
Aircraft Spruce, Avery Tools and Wicks. BTW call Owen Phillips at 44 (0)
1705
47391 in the UK or send E-mail to Andair(at)Andair.CO.UK.
The web
site is www.andair.co.uk.
Good
Stan Mehrhoff
te:
"Stan
t;Date:
Vanremog
Glasair
pressurized, as with an inline electric fuel pump between
is, they
the
carbureted engines. This has been
or if
you are using the higher pressure pumps
engines, go with the Andair
p; =
;
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp;
Sites at
http://www.matronics.com =
;
|
&=
nbsp;
--- &nbs=
p; =
;
href=3D"mailto:rv-list-request(at)matronics.com">rv-list-request(at)matronics.c=
om"
|
&=
nbsp;
--- &nbs=
p; =
;
aggressively
edit quoted text on a followup
posting!
p; =
;
&=
nbsp; &n=
bsp;
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
I too got a picture and I am not very impressed with the skill of the artist.
Under law, you are under no obligation to respond to any unsolicited items
sent that were not ordered. I don't plan to respond unless he sends me a UPS
pickup slip so that I can just leave the picture on the porch for pickup.
Jim Cone
RV-6A flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unsolicited Paintings |
Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll wrote:
>
>
> >
> >RotaVR wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> All:
> >> I recently received via U.S. mail an unsolicited painting of my RV-4 .
> >> Evidently the artist had taken a snapshot of my aircraft while parked at
> >> OshKosh last year, and then produced the painting from same.
> >> The artist requests I send him $55 to keep this unsolicited painting, or,
> >> contact him for further instructions on returning
> >
> >Steve,
> >
> >Definately a unique marketing plan! I haven't seen these paintings so I
> >don't know the quality, but I talked to an artist about doing an RV-6a
> >painting for my office and it was going to run between $350 - $500
> >without a frame. The $55 sounds like a bargain!!
> >
> >Jerry Calvert
> >Edmond Ok
> >-6a
> >
> Jerry, Get a good photographer, preferably a pilot. This was done with
> my first span can, (Piper 235). It was enlarged to a 11x14 and nicely
> framed at a frame shop. Cost nowhere near your artists quotes. A quality
> photograph will beat a good artists representation any day IMHO.
> Bruce Knoll
> RV6 empennage
> >
> >
Bruce,
Excellent Idea!! I'll let Sam Buchanan do it and I won't even charge
him anything!!!!
Good luck on the -6.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Kitplane Magazines |
Listers,
A fellow lister whose first name is Tommy or Thomas sent me a request
off-list for a magazine article. I was deleting messages and was to
quick on the trigger and deleted his message by mistake. Please try
again.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: nutplates - dimpled? |
At 21:39 01-05-98, you wrote:
>
>My first nutplates... K1000-06 for elevator trim cover... attached with
>AN426AD3-3 rivets... are the rivet holes in the nutplates to be dimpled so
>they will lay flat on the inside of the assembly?... thanks.
>John Bright, Newport News, VA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A empennage
25088
>
John,
I have found that the NAS 1097 rivets (available from Avery's) are great
for nutplates. They have a smaller head, so you can counter sink the skin
with a deburing tool, and use the nutplate without dimpling it. These
rivets are no good for stuctural applications in 3/32 size, but a nutplate
is not structural. All the rivet does is keep the nutplate from falling off.
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (working on LH elevator & wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca
Engineering Test Pilot stuck in Wichita instead of home working
Transport Canada on the RV :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage jig |
>
>Sometime ago, I received a copy of directions to make the RV6A fuselage
>jig from 3/4" plywood. These were step by step with measurements and
>required 3 sheets of plywood. My computer recently burped and I lost
>that info along with the name of who supplied it. I am about to start
>this end of the project so... if anyone has these plans/directions I
>would appreciate getting another copy sent.
>
>Thanks
>Rick Osgood, Minneapolis, MN
>
Rick,
... if these were Will Cretsinger's fuselage jig notes, you can
find them on my web site at:
http://www.flash.net/~gila/
...Gil Alexander
Was head person for the EAA B-17 at Van Nuys to-day -- "Watch your head!"
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Turning the fuselage over, what to rest it on? |
I am a week or so away from taking my RV-6A fuselage out of the jig and
turning it over. I see a lot of discussion in the List about the
fuselage jig, but nothing about what to rest the fuselage on when out of
the jig. What have the rest of you done about this? Any photos on any
web sites that show a fuselage at this stage? It is important to keep
it firmly level so the it does not warp when drilling the top skins, so
just sitting it on sawhorses doesn't seem like it would work.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman <Rvbirdman(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: testing fuel tanks for leaks |
I tested my tanks by going to a toy store and buying a punch ball (heavy duty
balloon). Fastened it on the fuel outlet and adapted a tire valve stem to the
vent line and installed the fuel cap. Pressurized the fuel tank until the
punch ball inflated and sprayed a mix of dish detergent and water in a old
windex spray bottle over all rivet lines and seams of the tank. The punch ball
takes a little more pressure to inflate that a balloon, but not enough to over
stress the tank. Thank God I had no leaks :)
Gary
RV-6
Bangor Maine area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
Listers,
I'm putting my prop and prop extension up for sale. It's a Warnke 70X70.
I've
ran it 650 hrs. and Bernie refinished it last year. I'm asking $750 for the
prop,
prop extension, spinner and backing plates. Everything is ready to bolt on and
go.
I cruise at 178 mph @ 75% power and have good climbout as well. Full power
gave me 2750 rpm, so it's matched to a 150 Lycoming pretty well. Price isn't
negotiable. If you have a 150 hp RV, I think you'll like this prop. Please make
inquiries to my E-Mail, not the List.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Warsaw, In
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning the fuselage over, what to rest it on? |
>I am a week or so away from taking my RV-6A fuselage out of the jig and
>turning it over. I see a lot of discussion in the List about the
>fuselage jig, but nothing about what to rest the fuselage on when out of
>the jig. What have the rest of you done about this? Any photos on any
>web sites that show a fuselage at this stage? It is important to keep
>it firmly level so the it does not warp when drilling the top skins, so
>just sitting it on sawhorses doesn't seem like it would work.
Here's what I did - maybe it will work for you. First, rather than make a
false spar out of a large piece of wood, I used 4 aluminum blocks, each
about 6 inches long and 1-1/2 inches wide, milled to the correct thickness
to maintain the proper gap for the spar at F604. Each of these 4 blocks
are bolted in place inside the F604 using the 4 most outboard holes, top
and bottom, on each side of the airplane.
My fuselage sits upright supported by an aluminum beam (actually a heavy
E-extrusion) which is about 3/4 X 4-1/2 inches, so it passes through the
F604 with no problem. The top 2 aluminum spacer blocks rest on top of the
beam, which is in turn supported by legs outside the fuselage. The legs
have some feet to help stabilize this inverted-U configuration. In
addition, the tail sits on a padded bar stool and the firewall is also
supported using an old wooden flower planter (shhhh, my wife is still
looking for this...) with shims. The airplane is easy to level by using
shims between the aluminum spacer blocks and the beam, and spacers on the
bar stool and shims at the flower planter.
This set up works great. The airplane stays level in both axises, no
axis', wait, axii?, ok - directions, and is stable enough to allow you to
get in and out those million or so times you will need to.
Although I was fortunate to have aluminum available for this, I see no
reason why it couldn't be made out of wood if necessary.
If someone wants a picture of this crazy set up, let me know and I'll take
one and email it to you.
Bruce Stobbe
Winsted, CT
RV-6 canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Hargrave" <Bobby.Hargrave(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
Scott:
I shared the same concern after riveting my HS 411. I started to drill them
out and replace but decided to go to work instead. After some thought,
those rivets just sandwich the bearing together so that it can then be
bolted to the rear spar. I left mine as is. Agree w/ Van's. They have built
more RVs than I have so why ask why. Have fun w/ HS810 and 814. When you
get ready to rivet front spars 602, I butted mine together at the inboard
ends and came up about 1/8" at each outboard end FWIW. This is an easy fix
to mate to HS 606 ribs. Also, page 6-5, Completing the Skeleton of the
Horizontal Stab, steps are out of order IMO. I numbered the paragraphs 1,
2, 9, 10, 11, 12, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. I'm a 1, 2, 3.... kinda guy and was
trying to fit the skin to the skel on my work table and not in the jig! All
the clamps in Home Depot didnt help! Wasted about 6hrs until I read all of
the steps and realized steps out of order. My jig is a thing of beauty...
not only does it hold my HS but it keeps my garage fm falling on my
airplane.
"If you cant be handsome...at least be handy"-Red Green
"Any tool can be the right tool"-Red Green
Words to live by.
Bob
HS skeleton in jig
RV8 80704
----------
> From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: HS411
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Moore <76147.3367(at)compuserve.com> |
Can anyone compare two engine monitors that I'm considering?
One is the EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies in Mich. It looks like a
good one and is quite inexpensive
The other one is the MicroMonitor from Rocky Mountain Instrument. It also
looks very nice but is more expensive.
They both seem to have about the same features.
Any input on performance and installation would be helpful
Thanks,
JP Moore
RV8 Finish Kit
Co
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning the fuselage over, what to rest it on? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Date: Sunday, May 03, 1998 6:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: Turning the fuselage over, what to rest it on?
>
>I am a week or so away from taking my RV-6A fuselage out of the jig and
>turning it over. I see a lot of discussion in the List about the
>fuselage jig, but nothing about what to rest the fuselage on when out of
>the jig. What have the rest of you done about this? Any photos on any
>web sites that show a fuselage at this stage? It is important to keep
>it firmly level so the it does not warp when drilling the top skins, so
>just sitting it on sawhorses doesn't seem like it would work.
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>
Steve,
Look up the Sport Aviation hint a few months back on using an engine stand
for a rotary mount. I spent $45 for a Chinese engine stand, then got two
3/4 x/4 steel angles and drilled them with 3/16 holes through the engine
mount gussets, but NOT where the engine mount bolts will go. I cut a 3/4
plywood plate to fit between the two horizontally-disposed angles. I have
four AN3 bolts through the angles, and the engine mount flange bolts to the
plywood plate. The center of rotation is 11 inches below the top of the
firewall maximum arc as viewed with the fuselage upright.
The F612 is sandwiched between two 2x4s with 1/4 bolts through the tooling
holes. I used Tee-nuts on the inside for easy installation. A pipe flange
midway down the F612 with a 12" pipe finishes it up. I rest the tail
assembly pipe on a saw horse.
Advantages:
1) Stand indexed every 45 degrees, so I can rotate fuselage all the way
around and position it for optimal work position.
2) No back aches. It is a pleasure to rotate the fuselage 90 degrees, sit
down on a rug, and reach inside to work on things at a comfortable height
and position.
3) Wheels on stand allow you to pick up the tail and wheel the fuselage
anywhere you want.
4) Sturdy mount -- two people can sit in the fuselage with it on the stand.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Report from Red Wing: How to squeeze flying surfaces. Bob N's |
talk
> The turnout was good 1 RV-8A courtesy of John Morgan of Van's, probably 25
> other assorted RV's. I would estimate over 100 people milling around. I
> was planing on stopping by later in the afternoon with the bomber, but a
> thundershower over Redwing prevented that so I didn't get back. The RV-8
> looked really nice! I met some other listers there, wish I could have
> stayed for more.
Actually, we served just a smidge over 200 for lunch -- a new record. Doug
Weiler did a great job picking the site. In spite of fears a location removed
from The Cities would reduce participation, people showed up, in spite of
the rain showers. We were treated to a great facility, and our speakers
were informative.
Two notes I want to make regarding speakers --
Paul McReynolds talked about rigging your RV. During the talk, he discussed
his method for squeezing the trailing edge of the control surfaces, most
notably the ailerons.
Paul does NOT use the method listed in the plans. I can tell you from
personal experience the hinged 2x4 method just doesn't work that well. Paul
does something similar, but different.
He does use 2 2x4s, but they aren't hinged. Instead, he uses 6 large C
clamps and slowly, carefully, clamps the 2x4s closer together until everything
is Just Right.
Other notes on this -- the definition of "just right" he has determined to
mean that the 2x4s should be flush with the trailing edge of the skins.
Stop tightening the C clamps when the 2x4s are 3/32 apart. If the 2x4s have
a slight radius on their edges, either remove the radius (carefully and
straightly) or adjust positioning of the 2x4s slightly.
The clamps themselves should be places along the trailing edge of the 2x4s
almost such that they fall off. You just want to tighten things at the
trailing edge, not forward of that point.
When you think you have 3/32nd between the 2x4s, take it all apart, then
hold the skins trailing edge to the sky and see if they hang with the right
distance at the spar point. Remember, the idea is to have them just touching
the spar with no pressure on them. But if you do it on the table, the
top skin will be affected by gravity and you'll get a slight cheating action
to close the skins further.
Email this isn't clear. I think Paul reads this list, but I'm not sure.
As for Bob N's talk -- he had some interesting things to say. I'll comment
on two items. Firstly, Bob pushes no single point of failure. Which means
that you design your system such that you're not up the proverbial creek
when (not if) something fails. Because you are failure tolerant, you don't
necessarily need to use "aircraft quality" parts everywhere. They're still
going to fail, he says, but *maybe* not as frequently. When you find a
particular part is failing more often than you like, upgrade that individual
part. Interesting idea, and he spent about 10 minutes explaining it, not
just a few sentences.
The other thing he talked about was some stuff he and B&C are doing.
Basically, they're planning to come out with an RV electrical system in a
box. He explained this somewhat, then made the comment that he would expect
us to do the "bulk of the wiring" of an RV in about 2 hours, using the
system he's pulling together. He didn't give time frames, but I suspect
it'll be ready long before I get that far...
All our speakers were good and well worth listening to. Perhaps someone else
can grab some nuggets of info to share with us.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick & Barbara Osgood" <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage jig |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Thanks Gil... Those were the notes I needed.
Rick Osgood
Date: Saturday, May 02, 1998 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuselage jig
>
>>
>>Sometime ago, I received a copy of directions to make the RV6A fuselage
>>jig from 3/4" plywood.
>Rick,
> ... if these were Will Cretsinger's fuselage jig notes, you can
>find them on my web site at:
>
>http://www.flash.net/~gila/
>
>
> ...Gil Alexander
>
>Was head person for the EAA B-17 at Van Nuys to-day -- "Watch your head!"
>
>mailto:gila(at)flash.net
>Gil Alexander,
>Los Angeles, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
Jim, I cant speak for the EIS unit because I ve never owned one, however
I am currently using the RMI Monitor and Encoder units and I like them
both so well I plan on using them both in my next aircraft. They have
performed without error in 49 hours of use and were both easy to build
and install. You can see the installation on my home page.
chet
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alivic(at)wport.com |
I bought my RV-8 empennage kit last August so that I would
be able to study the plans as well as the construction manual while
completing my new house which will house my RV project. I have been
hung up on the primer question since August 1997 and have been very
frustrated since a clear direction on this subject has been very
elusive.
While at SNF week before last I attended three of Chris
Heinz's forums on aluminum and rivets (Chis is the designer of the
Zodiac and founder of Zenair). All were very informative and supported
everything I had learned thus far in my research on these subjects. For
this reason I specifically asked him his thoughts on primer. His
response was clear and logical to me. He stated that if you lived in a
major pollution environment or could taste salt on your lips because you
lived near a salt water environment, than prime all the interior
surfaces of your aircraft with a zinc chromate system. If on the other
hand you lived anywhere else, merely prime all surfaces in contact with
other surfaces with a good zinc chromate primer. He advised that
cleaning the surfaces thoroughly with a suitable solvent and applying
the zinc chromate with a throw away sponge brush would do nicely. The
logic behind this approach is that although condensation will generate
moisture within your enclosed structure, eventually the moisture that is
not trapped between components and structure will evaporate.
I am not attempting to begin another primer war. On the
contrary, I found Chris's suggestion very helpful in clarifying this
controversy and hope that it may also be useful to others.
Tony Livic
RV-8 empennage
alivic(at)wport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: testing fuel tanks for leaks |
Rvbirdman wrote:
I tested my tanks by going to a toy store and buying a punch ball
(heavy duty
> balloon).
A little more scientific method of testing for leaks is described in my
wing construction notes for RV-6/6A and would probably be applicable for
all RV types. Notes are at www.flash.net/~gila courtesy of Gil
Alexander.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
RV-6A Instrument panel and systems
trated on keeping things level
but it would be a plus.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
RV-6A Instrument panel and systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
Jim Moore wrote:
> Can anyone compare two engine monitors that I'm considering?
> One is the EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies in Mich. It looks like a
> good one and is quite inexpensive
Jim, Another local builder and I are both going with the EIS but
neither will be flying for some time. The complete EIS with the big red
light, super size display, and switch for reading four EGTs totaled
$848. Reading of a total of four CHT/EGT combined is standard. With
the switch I can read two CHT and four EGT. I think Rocky Mountain and
Allegro are higher priced.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
RV-6A Instrument panel and systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
Hi Jim,
I can't compare the two types of engine monitors you mentioned, as I've
only used the EIS unit. I bought/installed/used the EIS and really like it!
Greg (the main guy at Grand Rapids Tech.), is very easy to deal with, and
was able to help me with all the questions I had regarding my installation
of the EIS unit on my Ultralight (Greg designed it and understands it
fully). I installed it on my U/L first with no vibration isolation, and the
vibration from my Rotax 503 caused it to fail after the first 20 hours (it
was really buzzing, and I don't blame it for the failure). Greg replaced it
for free, and I haven't had any problems with it since (after another 150
hrs of use). I mounted it with some rubber isolaters after the failure. You
probably wouldn't have to rubber mount it in the panel of your RV-8 (mine is
mounted off the main root tube on my U/L, the same tube the engine is
mounted on).
I would recommend getting the pre-wired plugs that are available from
Grand Rapids Tech., as I didn't the first time around, and I spent alot of
time finding the right size wires in the right colors, and the extra hassles
in soldering the wires to the plugs just isn't worth it. I got the pre-wired
plugs for my second installation, and it went much faster, and they are
quite inexpensive.
I've sent it back for up-grades a couple of times, and now have all the
bells and whistles available, the latest being the fuel flow option. The
nice thing about the fuel flow option is it has an endurance mode, which
tells me how much time I have till I run out of fuel (at the current
throttle setting). I can compare that to the time to go from my GPS, and the
two units do all the math, and as long as the time till empty on the EIS is
a bigger number than the time to go from the GPS, I'll make it to my
destination. That really reduces the "pucker factor" when cutting it close.
There have been a couple of times where I would have diverted to the nearest
airport for additional fuel if I hadn't had this option, just to be safe
(which would have meant I would have had to make other arrangements to get
home, as I can't fly the U/L after dark, and the diversion would have made
it too late to get home before dark.
One of the best features of the EIS (IMO) is the over limit alert. If any
of the temps, times,fuel level, battery voltage, etc. go over/under the
limits you set, a red light flashes, and the thing that is beyond the limit
flashes on the display, so you will instantly notice it and know what the
problem is, without having to constantly be looking at the instrument.
I hope this helps you with your decision on which inst. you end up getting.
In the future, any plane I get will have the EIS unit.
Sincerely,
Randy Simpson
>
>Can anyone compare two engine monitors that I'm considering?
>One is the EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies in Mich. It looks like a
>good one and is quite inexpensive
>The other one is the MicroMonitor from Rocky Mountain Instrument. It also
>looks very nice but is more expensive.
>They both seem to have about the same features.
>Any input on performance and installation would be helpful
>
>Thanks,
>JP Moore
>RV8 Finish Kit
>Co
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from Red Wing: How to squeeze flying surfaces. Bob |
N's talk
>
>Paul does NOT use the method listed in the plans. I can tell you from
>personal experience the hinged 2x4 method just doesn't work that well.
Paul
>does something similar, but different.
>
>He does use 2 2x4s, but they aren't hinged. Instead, he uses 6 large C
>clamps and slowly, carefully, clamps the 2x4s closer together until
everything
>is Just Right.
>
>Other notes on this -- the definition of "just right" he has determined to
>mean that the 2x4s should be flush with the trailing edge of the skins.
>Stop tightening the C clamps when the 2x4s are 3/32 apart. If the 2x4s
have
>a slight radius on their edges, either remove the radius (carefully and
>straightly) or adjust positioning of the 2x4s slightly.
>
>The clamps themselves should be places along the trailing edge of the 2x4s
>almost such that they fall off. You just want to tighten things at the
>trailing edge, not forward of that point.
>
>When you think you have 3/32nd between the 2x4s, take it all apart, then
>hold the skins trailing edge to the sky and see if they hang with the right
>distance at the spar point. Remember, the idea is to have them just
touching
>the spar with no pressure on them. But if you do it on the table, the
>top skin will be affected by gravity and you'll get a slight cheating
action
>to close the skins further.
>
>All our speakers were good and well worth listening to. Perhaps someone
else
>can grab some nuggets of info to share with us.
>
>-Joe
I just got back from Red Wing after a great brunch at the St. James Hotel
and a stop at the pottery shop on the way out of town where my wife got a
chance to indulge her shopping urge. The talk on aileron bending was very
timely, since I'm going to be doing that soon. I might add that one very
important discovery for me was a new adjustable galvanized steel jig. Jim
Reisinger is starting up manufacture of these new jigs. He can be contacted
at 608-269-6361. He has a version for the RV-6 now and will soon have one
for the RV-8. It goes for $650.00.
I am probably in an unusual situation. I will be building my fuselage in a
room in a finished basement that is carpeted. This jig will allow me to go
ahead without ripping up the carpet, since it is rigid enough that it
doesn't have to be attached to the floor.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
larry(at)bowen.com wrote:
> Which rivets did y'all use for the six rivets that hold together the HS411
> assembly (The bearing in the center of the rear spar)? The plans call for
> 4-5s, but these only extends 1.0x the diameter past the assembly - 1.5x is
> the rule, right? Van's tech. support said this was fine for this
> particular
> part.
I followed the plans and was really hacked off to find that the first
rivets I'd done 'for real' had come out with too-short shop heads. I
drilled them out and never trusted the plans again for rivet length.
You'll find my comments on this and other empennage building problems
at <http://www.geocities.com/Canaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny1a.htm>
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
I have the RMI uMonitor in my (flying) RV-6. It has performed flawlessly.
If I had it to do all over again, I would purchase it again.
I also looked at the Grand Rapids Technologies unit. The deciding factor
was that the uMonitor's display can display almost all the parameters
without a lot of button-pushing. I wanted to be able to take a quick
glance and see my Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Fuel Pressure, etc without having
to push buttons to cycle through them.
Things will happen very quickly on your first takeoff (at least it did for
me) for you to be pushing buttons in order to detect a low fuel pressure or
some such problem.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
>
>Can anyone compare two engine monitors that I'm considering?
>One is the EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies in Mich. It looks like a
>good one and is quite inexpensive
>The other one is the MicroMonitor from Rocky Mountain Instrument. It also
>looks very nice but is more expensive.
>They both seem to have about the same features.
>Any input on performance and installation would be helpful
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Aileron Trailing Edge Radius Bending |
I found that buying a 3/32" wooden dowel and placing it in the back of
the aileron and putting two boards around the back end with "C" clamps
every five or six inches worked well. Just uniformly adjust the clamps
until the aluminum is hard against the dowel inside the aft radius bend;
it worked well. There is some very minor "spring-back" but not much.
Also the 3/32" dowel prevents you from inadvertently over bending and
perhaps cracking the trailing edge. It worked for me! The dowels can be
had almost anyplace for 25-cents or so.
Salida, CO RV-6A Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRAUM <GRAUM(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NAPA 7220 Primer |
I've tried several NAPA locations in Cincinnati without success. They
indicated that 7220 was not listed.
Tom Graumlich
RV-6 (wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Re: Report from Red Wing: Jim Reisinger's Jig |
>
> I just got back from Red Wing after a great brunch at the St. James Hotel
> and a stop at the pottery shop on the way out of town where my wife got a
> chance to indulge her shopping urge. The talk on aileron bending was very
> timely, since I'm going to be doing that soon. I might add that one very
> important discovery for me was a new adjustable galvanized steel jig. Jim
> Reisinger is starting up manufacture of these new jigs. He can be contacted
> at 608-269-6361. He has a version for the RV-6 now and will soon have one
> for the RV-8. It goes for $650.00.
There is information on Jim's jig on my web page. Go to
http://www.showpage.org/joe
Click onto my project page and you'll be able to find a link to Jim's stuff.
Jim will also lease the jig for about $45 per month.
The advantage of this jig, as I see it, is that you can get it *just right*.
The biggest problem I ever have with things like this is getting everything
aligned perfectly. With Jim's jig, that should be pretty easy to do without
any shimming.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from Red Wing: How to squeeze flying surfaces. Bob |
N's talk
spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
> new adjustable galvanized steel jig.
> I will be building my fuselage in a
> room in a finished basement that is carpeted. This jig will allow me to go
> ahead without ripping up the carpet, since it is rigid enough that it
> doesn't have to be attached to the floor.
Steve,
If that carpet is any good, I suggest you pull it up and store it
away. I built my empennage in my spare room (after lifting the
carpet). Even with regular sweeping of the workshop, the carpet in the
hallway outside the workshop got full of aluminium shavings. I doubt
I'll ever get rid of them all.
I'd say that by the time you've finished your fuselage, your carpet
would be pretty well ruined.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <airshows1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Finished TIP-UP Canopy Assy. For Sale |
Have just removed tip-up canopy and all associated skins, etc. from RV-6.
Will sell this completed assembly, which should fit another RV-6 without too
much trouble for $500. Please reply off-list. I'm in Florida near Delray
Beach.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NAPA 7220 Primer |
The 7220 is indeed the same stuff as the Sherwin Williams. I use both.
If you look at both cans side by side, the factorys are at the same
address, and they have the same nozzle. They both spray, look, and smell
(Don't try this at home!) exactly the same. There is a Napa right down
the street from me, so it saves me the trip across town to the SW auto
store.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Russell Duffy wrote:
>
>
> Ron, Look again closely at the can. It says it was made FOR Martin
> Senour, not BY them. I tested it on a couple pieces of scrap, then
> used it on elevator stiffeners. So far, I like it. It meets all my
> current requirements of being convenient, and anything but green :-)
>
> I plan to continue using it.
>
> Russell Duffy
> RV-8A (expecting wings in June)
> Navarre, FL
>
> > I ordered a can in Seattle area, and it was not made by Sherwin Williams,
> > but rather Martin Senour. Haven't used it. It cost $5.95 or something
> > like that.
> >
> > Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, wiring
> > Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | REGAES <REGAES(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8A.Performance Numbers ? |
145 FLAT OUT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "robert dziewiontkoski" <dzflyer(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Report from Red Wing! |
Listers...
Just returned from Red Wing. What an excellant event! And I might add a very
nice airport and community. I would not hesitate to visit Red Wing again nor
would I hesitate going to next year's Forum.
Doug Weiler, Jim Lenzmeier and everyone else involved did an excellant job
of putting together a very fine program.
Of the forum speakers that I was able to meet and/or see, I especially
enjoyed Bob Nuckolls, of Aero Electric Connection; and RV-6 builder Paul
Peterson, who gave a very informative (and entertaining) talk on aircraft
engine operation. The day was topped off with a very nice meal in the
Historic St James Hotel (put that on your list of places to visit too)
followed by banquet speaker Bryan Moon.
The best part was that it really motivated me to get into the workshop and
get to riveting!!!
Thank you doug, Jim, et al
Bob Dz...
-6A empennage
Milwaukee WI
624DZ reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
I need to store my QB wings while I finish my elevator. I saw a web page
where the builder used a wing fixture on wheels to store and move his
wings around the shop. Anyone know who this was?
Moe Colontonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Cylinders for sale |
Listers,
I'm overhauling my engine and I've got 4 used 0-320 WFC 150 hp cylinders
with the pistons and piston pins for sale. One cylinder is 600 hrs old. All are
steel ( not chromed ). All had good compression but I had to back the prop
up on #1 to get a good compression reading 75/80. Other than that, all are
rebuildable and # 3 could be used as is if needed. I'm asking $650.00 for all.
Price is not negotiable. Please send inquires to my e-mail, not the list.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 8A.Performance Numbers ? |
REGAES wrote:
>
>
> 145 FLAT OUT
>
>
Did I miss something here?
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Turning the fuselage over, what to rest it on? |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I am a week or so away from taking my RV-6A fuselage out of the jig
>and
>turning it over. I see a lot of discussion in the List about the
>fuselage jig, but nothing about what to rest the fuselage on when out
>of
>the jig. What have the rest of you done about this? Any photos on
>any
>web sites that show a fuselage at this stage? It is important to keep
>it firmly level so the it does not warp when drilling the top skins,
>so
>just sitting it on sawhorses doesn't seem like it would work.
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>
>
>
Steve, It is only important to hold the fuselage straight, level, and
without any twist; until you drill and rivet the rear fuselage deck skin
on (the one that is under the empenage). After this has been done the
fuse. is locked into what ever state it will be in from then on.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Primer Question-SORRY |
Would anyone with knowledge and/or experience with DEFT primer please E-mail
me off-list. It is not my intention to start another primer thread, but do
have a few questions.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
JNice(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NAPA 7220 Primer |
Moe Colontonio Wrote
> The 7220 is indeed the same stuff as the Sherwin Williams. I use both.
> If you look at both cans side by side, the factorys are at the same
> address, and they have the same nozzle. They both spray, look, and smell
> (Don't try this at home!) exactly the same. There is a Napa right down
> the street from me, so it saves me the trip across town to the SW auto
> store.
After hearing some doubt about this being true, I'm relieved to find that
someone actually verified it. I was the one who originally posted this but
have not used either product. I did ask at the local NAPA store and while
they did not have it in stock they said If I wanted they could order it and
have it 2 days. Like most of the local builders I have been using
Veriprime up to now, but would like something a bit more convenient for
smaller jobs.
Dare I ask if anyone else has used Veriprime and SW/NAPA and how they
compared?
Dave Lundquist
RV-6 empennage done, diviing into the wing kit next weekend!
Long Island NY, (somebody said this was important)
ect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
David A. Barnhart wrote:
> I also looked at the Grand Rapids Technologies unit. The deciding factor
> was that the uMonitor's display can display almost all the parameters
> without a lot of button-pushing. I wanted to be able to take a quick
> glance and see my Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Fuel Pressure, etc without having
> to push buttons to cycle through them.
>
> Things will happen very quickly on your first takeoff (at least it did for
> me) for you to be pushing buttons in order to detect a low fuel pressure or
> some such problem.
Grand Rapids EIS has a big red light that tells you the parameter now
flashing on the screen is out of your preset limits without need to push
buttons or scan the screen unnecessarily while "on the roll". Both
monitors undoubtedly have their strong points and owners tend to vouch
for what they have. I regret a recent "objective analysis" in an
aviation publication did not include these two units in the survey.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
RV-6A Instrument panel and systems
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RE: NAPA 7220 Primer |
Dave Lundquist asked:
>Dare I ask if anyone else has used Veriprime and SW/NAPA and how they
>compared?
I've used 'em both, both stick well, especially if you scuff the aluminum
first. The Sherwin Williams is very convenient compared to the Veriprime, and
I like the gray color. The only downside is it doesn't have any sacrificial
elements....
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
Beautiful day of just flying around. Landed, fueled, had a hard time
starting the ol' girl. Hints on hot starts: carburated 0-320, RV-4. It has
been winter and I haven't had to deal with this until today. Any hints?
Thanks,
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Formative flying (more later)
________________________________________________________________________________
I am looking for a prop for a 180 Hp RV. Would consider outright
purchase or lease. Intereseted in a Hartzell or wood prop. Tired of
waiting for the new Sensenich prop.
Please respond to:
tcolson@cedar-rapids.net
Tom Olson, Cedar Rapids, Ia.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing fixture? |
MoeJoe wrote:
>
> I need to store my QB wings while I finish my elevator. I saw a web page
> where the builder used a wing fixture on wheels to store and move his
> wings around the shop. Anyone know who this was?
I doubt you saw this on my web page, but I'm using something exactly
like you mention. This rolling wing stand was made by a neighbor,
Tom Benton, for use with his RV-6A wings. I'm using it to store my
Falcon XP wings until Bernie and I finish work on our RV-6A, and I
can get back to work on the Falcon.
Picture two 2x4 L's (ells, the kind that turn up at the tip of the
lower leg) with a strip of carpet slung between the high and low
tips. Tie the two L's together with some 2x4's, and add some
wheels. Voila! It's simple, inexpensive, won't damage the wings,
and easily mobile. I'll add a picture to my website tomorrow.
http://ntr.net/~rimbold
--
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A & P License |
It used to be you could have your construction time signed off by an A
and P
. However this involved working with an A and P to verify you had done
the
work. I"ve heard this in almost impossible these days. Besides you
must
know much more than your building experience has gained you.
ie. on a hydraulic line 6 feet long, how many clamps are required?
Yes there are courses you can take which teach you the test but I
don"t
know if the FAA will still accept your experience. Your local FISDO
should
be able to tell you. Dont forget you have to be able to pass a
practical test.
Stew. RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
Mike,
Sounds like it was heat soaked. What was your fuel pressure showing?
Sounds like you had a vapor lock situation going. Did you try a
prime?
Then crank with throttle half open.
Stew RV4 273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A & P License |
<< I know as well as anyone that many builders develop skills that rival a
lot of professional mechanics, but it doesn't give you much experience
troubleshooting and repairing problems, etc. >>
Allow me to disagree in part. Everyone is not capable of working as an A&P,
but "many" folks have the experience and the knowledge required, but lack
the credentials to obtain these ratings.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAR Part 43.1(b) uncertified engines vs certified |
---SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
>
---------- snip ----------
> I don't have a copy of the FAR's in front of me at this time so I
can't
> quote directly but the beginning of part 45 has a statement that in
> general says "this part does not apply to any aircraft which has been
> issued an experimental certificate of airworthiness".
>
> This basically means that any reg. in the FAR's related to maint. on
an
> aircraft (in part 45) in regards to who can do what, etc.; they do
not
> apply to any aircraft with an experimental C of A (even a war bird
that
> is flying in the experimental/exhibition category)
----------- snip ----------
----------- insert ----------
FAR Part 43.1 (b) "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which
an experimental airworthiness certificate had previoulsy been issued,
unless a different kind of airworthiness certificate had previously
been issued for that aircraft."
---------- end insert ----------
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are my own
> and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> of my employer.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A & P License |
In a message dated 5/3/98 11:12:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com writes:
> >I am interested in obtaining my A & P license after building my RV-8.
> >Has
> >anyone else done this? What exactly is involved? What study materials
> >are
> >required and where do you get them?
> >Thanks.
> >Von Alexander
The basic requirements for the A&P rating are:
Three written tests: General, Airframe, Powerplant
A Practical Examination from an FAA designate
Work experience (can't quote the exact requirements)
A letter of recommendation from an IA
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DFaile <DFaile(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A & P License |
<< This is really not possible unless you know someone who works for
the FAA that would be willing to try and slide you through. >>
I usually try not to respond "on list" in an effort to keep the list under
control, but this one needs a response.
Last September (1997) I completed my A&P (Mechanic License with Airframe and
Powerplant Ratings) based on an aircraft that I built and I do NOT know
anybody in the FAA "willing to try and slide you through.". I documented my
work on my aircraft which included building and maintenance. I also documented
the time I helped other homebuilders on their projects. I next found an A&P
willing to attest to my work (this was actually the hard part since I had not
worked directly with any one particular A&P) and he wrote a letter
recommending me for the license. the next step is to go to the FAA for the
forms (permission) to take the three writtens (General, Airframe, Powerplant).
After that it is three orals/practicals with a designated examiner.
It is a lot of work, but it can be done.
david faile, fairfield, ct
cfii/a&p
eaa technical counselor/flight advisor
rv6 started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Control Linkage. |
I am working on the Elevator Control Linkage from the stick bach to the
bellcrank. I think this is part number F669. The plans call for this
part to be 47 1/2" long and they don't say "nominal" on the plans so
this may be exact.
My question is before I cut this tube, how can I tell this is the right
length for "my airplane". I was thinking that with the stick in the
neutral position (5 deg back?) and the bell crank perpendicular this
would be a close estimation as long as I left some room for adjustment
both ways.
Any other techniques would be greatly appreciated.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A,
Roanoke, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patty" <d020205(at)vm.sc.edu> |
| Subject: | Cleveland brake cylinder for trade |
Lister,
I have brought a partially completed kit. The kit came with brakes on
one side. I ordered the dual brake kit and it came with Matco
cylinders. My other cylinders are Clevelands. I would like matching
cylinders.
I was wondering if :
1. There is someone in the same situtation as I am and wants to trade
cylinders; or
2. There is someone with single side brakes that would like Clevelands
instead of the Matcos.
Patty Gillies
South Carolina
D020205(at)vm.sc.edu
(803) 787-7506
completed
kit. The kit came with brakes on one side. I ordered the
dual brake
kit and it came with Matco cylinders. My other cylinders are
someone in
the same situtation as I am and wants to trade cylinders;
single side
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
>
>Grand Rapids EIS has a big red light that tells you the parameter now
>flashing on the screen is out of your preset limits without need to push
>buttons or scan the screen unnecessarily while "on the roll". Both
>monitors undoubtedly have their strong points and owners tend to vouch
>for what they have. I regret a recent "objective analysis" in an
>aviation publication did not include these two units in the survey.
Yes, but consider the following: The BRL (Big Red Light) starts flashing
and the unit displays an oil pressure that is 30 psi lower than normal.
Did you lose that 30 psi in the last 30 seconds or the last 30 minutes?
The answer to THAT question makes a big difference in how you react to the
knowledge that the oil pressure is low. Similarly, with fuel injection,
It is a LONG way down from "Normal Fuel Pressure" to "Fuel Pressure Below
Limits". On takeoff I wanna detect the loss of fuel pressure when it drops
that first 2 PSI, not when it hits the low limit.
Please note that I'm not condemning the Grand Rapids unit or folks that use
it. We all make our own decisions based upon our own thinking and
philosophy. Some people's preference is to let the *device* scan the
engine parms and have it tell you when something is out of line, and that's
fine. *My* personal preference is to include the engine gauges in my own
scan. I know that if had the Grand Rapids unit, *I* would get lazy and
would tend to ignore the engine parms, omitting them from my scan.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
I am going with a different cowl so I have a Van's baffle kit at a reduced
price never opened. Contact me off net at harje(at)proaxis.com
Good Day!
Denny
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Does any one have a C/S oil line for an O-320-A ( if there is any difference
in them) that they would like to sell?
Good Day!
Denny
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | uncertified engines vs certified |
This issue was the topic of an article in the "Engine Beat" Section of
Kitplanes a few months back, I'll see if I can find it. The article
discusses the issue in detail and confirms the fact that only an A&P
signoff of all work will maintain an aircraft engine as "certified."
Chris Browne
Atlanta
RV-6A LE
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: RV-List: uncertified engines vs certified
Date: 5/2/98 2:55 PM
I want to thank all you listers for the response on uncertified engines;
what an education! In my situation, my friend had the 0-320 in his RV-4,
and then decertified it when he did a top overhaul. He is very mechanically
inclined, and used a Lycoming O'haul manual as well as other experienced
help (but no A&P's). The engine was missing the logs when he got it, but he
was able to trace down the previous owners of the aircraft it came out of.
He also kept a written log of every single step and part #s, etc he used in
the top
overhaul,
and get this, a complete video of the whole thing! If you are going to
decertify, this would be invaluable to the next owner, because it allows
him to determine what was done and how. The engine now has 500 hours on it
since top overhaul, and is the tightest, smoothest, most leakfree lycoming
I have ever seen! So I guess what we learn is, yes, there are advantages to
decertifying an engine, but don't do it on an newer one, because the value
reduction will be too much. Just my opinion.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544 Just finished the tanks, and about now, I am real glad I am not
building a plastic airplane!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Rolling wing stand pix now on website |
I've just added some pictures to my website of the rolling wing stand
that I'm using. It was made by my neighbor at Treasure Coast Airpark,
Tom Benton, for his RV-6A wings. I'm using it now to store the wings
of my Falcon XP while I work on my (and Bernie's) RV-6A. You can see
the pictures at http://ntr.net/~rimbold
--
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MStu32 <MStu32(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | o360-A4K Sump, help ! |
I have a o360-A4K with a rear carburator attatchment. What is the best fix?
Is a new sump the only answer? Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Trim & Elevator Balance |
With the factory recommended elevator being 25 degrees nose down and 30
degrees nose up, am I correct in assuming the trim tab should portionally
have the same nose up and nose down movement (which is opposite in
direction from the elevator for the same response?
should the elevators be balanced seperately or as a unit...or...does it make
any difference?
Thankyou!
Good Day!
Denny
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Forming RV-6A Tip Up Followup |
> Recommend builders, who haven't started the canopy, delete the
> suggestion of placing a heater under the canopy.
I'm not so sure I'd go that far. If I remember the original post, you
had a gas heater, did you not? I know those guys can get HOT. I
wonder if it wasn't possibly directing the heat at one particular spot
as well.
I used a 4' long electric radiant heater (essentially a portable
baseboard heater). I left it in the cockpit most of the time I was
doing my canopy, and it kept the canopy uniformly warmed up to about
what it would be if left outside on a hot day. I suppose that the use
of a long, radiant heater resulted in more uniform heating and kept me
from having the problems some others have mentioned. I also kept my
shop pretty warm so there wasn't too much differential. I would do it
this way again.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (finish/engine)
Portland OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Soggy brakes |
Hi Mushy Brakes,
If you've really bled out all the air and they are mushy and have air in them
again, it is because there is a leak which allows more air to be sucked in when
the brake is released. Are you sure the line from fluid reservoir to master
cylinder is clear so that release of brakes allows fluid to flow in?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> any leaks any more, and I have a nice solid left brake, but no matter
> what I do I can't seem to get the right brake to bleed up solid. It
> apprear to be air because it pumps up solid with about four pumps. I
> have disconnected the master cylinders and turned them the right way up
> while I bleed the breaks ( 4 guys will know what I mean) and still no
> joy with the right one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Linkage. |
<< part number F669. The plans call for this
part to be 47 1/2" long ... how can I tell this is the right
length for "my airplane". I was thinking that with the stick in the
neutral position (5 deg back?) and the bell crank perpendicular this
would be a close estimation as long as I left some room for adjustment
both ways. >>
First of all 5 back for neutral position is incorrect. For the 6/6A, 3-5
forward I believe to be more accurate. I think is shown in the plans
somewhere. Anyway, hold the stick in this position and hold the reverser
bellcrank vertical (normal with the longitudinal datum) in the neutral
position. Measure from pivot hole to pivot hole. This is Dimension A.
Then determine the proper rod end bearings and the threaded push tube end
fittings so that you have about of the total thread engaged on each.
Measure the distance from the rod end hole to the edge of the shoulder on the
push tube end fittings (where it will seat against the push tube end). Do
this for both ends and subtract the total from Dim A. This should be the "cut
to" length for the tube. It should be somewhere near 47.5"
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
<3.0.5.32.19980503132627.007ae8b0(at)a.crl.com>
Dave,
Like a lot of folks, I'd like to have some electronic gizmo help me with
that scan by flashing a light, yelling at me, and anything else it might do
to get my attention, if it detects something wrong. Especially true during
those first few hours of the test program. Does the RMI unit have provision
for something like this?
Mike Wills
RV-4 (fuse)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
Some people's preference is to let the *device* scan the
>engine parms and have it tell you when something is out of line, and that's
>fine. *My* personal preference is to include the engine gauges in my own
>scan. I know that if had the Grand Rapids unit, *I* would get lazy and
>would tend to ignore the engine parms, omitting them from my scan.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
>Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
I believe you will find the first set of numbers like M22759 which
would be
a milspec number. Next usually is the wire number for its usage in a
system.
Next should be the wire size like 16. All ac wire these days is
teflon insulated
and the insulation is much thiner.
Hope this helps Stew. Rv4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
David A. Barnhart wrote:
>
> >
> >Grand Rapids EIS has a big red light that tells you the parameter now
> >flashing on the screen is out of your preset limits without need to push
> >buttons or scan the screen unnecessarily while "on the roll". Both
> >monitors undoubtedly have their strong points and owners tend to vouch
> >for what they have. I regret a recent "objective analysis" in an
> >aviation publication did not include these two units in the survey.
>
> Yes, but consider the following: The BRL (Big Red Light) starts flashing
> and the unit displays an oil pressure that is 30 psi lower than normal.
> Did you lose that 30 psi in the last 30 seconds or the last 30 minutes?
> The answer to THAT question makes a big difference in how you react to the
> knowledge that the oil pressure is low. Similarly, with fuel injection,
> It is a LONG way down from "Normal Fuel Pressure" to "Fuel Pressure Below
> Limits". On takeoff I wanna detect the loss of fuel pressure when it drops
> that first 2 PSI, not when it hits the low limit.
>
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
> Flying
Dave - I might be wrong, but IMHO the operator of this instrument sets their own
low limits. You could know if your fuel limit has dropped by 2psi if that is where
you set the limit. The objection I have found with this unit is that it is almost
too sensitive. If you set the limits too close to tolerance you could be chasing
the BRL rather than flying with confidence. In your first example of the oil
pressure drop, the only way this instrument could be 30 minutes late is for the
operator to ignore the BRL that long. I agree that a normal scan MUST be used
on
each and every take off and during the flight. This instrument makes that scan
much easier since there is only one instrument to look at and the screens can be
programmed to the checks needed most frequently. My major concern with a multi
input instrument is WHAT IF IT QUITS!
Keep flying and keep safe.
Doug Murray -Alberta, Canada RV-6 still building - engine area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Totland <mail.algonet.se> |
Since the first flight of my RV6 (#20898)three years ago, I have known
that the AI is reading low. In fact, flight testing using clock, GPS and
chase plane have shown that it reads ~10kts low. Well, it was on the "safe"
side, so fixing it was also low on my priority list. This weekend I finally
decided that it was time do something about it. Judging from previous threads,
the results might be of interest to some of you.
I am using the AN5812 heated pitot tube on my -6, but this is not important
as type of probe and position are non-critical items for total-pressure
measurements. Not so for static pressure. Therefore I was careful to
follow Van's instructions regarding static port location, which I trust
are based on flight experience. What I did not notice however, was that
Van used "universal head" blind rivets as ports. These introduce a local
low pressure (due to curvature) right at the orifice, which I do not get
with my machined, perfectly flush ports.
So, what I did was to install "dummy" rivets. I used the heads of two
3/16" AN470AD6 rivets, drilled 2mm holes in the centre of each head
(drilling before cutting off head) and glued them in place over the
flush static ports, taking care to align the holes. That was just what
was needed to correct the position error. It has been verified using
available means (clock and GPS) in a before/after test. Same day, similar
flight conditions. As a side effect, I now have no change in IAS (or altitude)
when switching from static port to alternate static (cabin pressure).
The only problem is the annoying sight of two big, universal head rivets
on the otherwise smooth airplane. I see it every time before entering the
cockpit :(
Ernst Totland
totland(at)algonet.se
SE-XOI, new canopy installed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Linkage. |
>Then determine the proper rod end bearings and the threaded push tube end
>fittings so that you have about of the total thread engaged on each.
Wrong, Wrong, Wrong !!!!!!! There was a recent crash of a composite due to
this error. With everything rigged in the neutral position, you want a 2/3
thread engagement with the rod end into the threaded fitting. The reason
for this is as follows: If the lock nuts loosen, the pushrod can spin. If
you have a 50% engagement then one rod end bearing will reach 100%
engagement while the other completely unthreads itself and falls to the
floor of the aircraft. You will be left with no elevator control except for
trim. I do not want to attempt a landing on trim alone. With 2/3 thread
engagement, if the lock nuts loosen, the worst situation will be 100%
engagement on one rod end and 1/3 engagement on the other. During rigging,
I found that 2/3 engagement left more than enough room for future adjustments.
Bottom line: Install all rod end bearings with a 2/3 engagement as it's
neutral setting. This should be done on all linkages throughout the control
systems.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing fixture? |
>I need to store my QB wings while I finish my elevator. I saw a web page
>where the builder used a wing fixture on wheels to store and move his
>wings around the shop. Anyone know who this was?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>
Moe,
I have a shot of my cradle on my web page at:
http://villagenet.com/~scottg/wing.html
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | H2AD exhaust for RV-4 |
Fellow Listers,
I have a friend you will shortly be installing a 032-H2AD on this RV-4. He
is concerned that Vetterman will not make an exhaust for this engine and he
is wondering what others have done regarding an exhaust system for this
airframe/engine combination. Also will Van's airbox fit on this engine and
are there any other ramifications regarding systems installation for
a -H2AD.
Thanks
Doug
*******************************************
Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
> Like a lot of folks, I'd like to have some electronic gizmo help me with
>that scan by flashing a light, yelling at me, and anything else it might do
>to get my attention, if it detects something wrong. Especially true during
>those first few hours of the test program. Does the RMI unit have provision
>for something like this?
>
Mike,
The RMI unit will beep quite noticeably when a monitored parameter is out of
limits. The displayed value will also blink. Bottom line is that when
something is wrong the RMI unit lets you know right away.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
I don't have an engine monitor but I decided I could really use "idiot
lights" for both oil pressure and fuel pressure. If I blow a seal and
dump my oil I want to know NOW not 30 seconds from now (and frankly it
could be a lot longer than that, if for example I'm distracted with
something "unimportant" like the glideslope needle".) I got an EE
friend of mine to help me rig up a circuit to do this based on the
output of my electric oil and fuel pressure senders (Mitchell). I
know it doesn't replace the gauges but that's not what it's intended
to do.
I am wondering however about one thing -- if the mechanical fuel pump
drops out will there be any lag at all before the engine quits? If
its only a few seconds then that gives me time to hit the boost pump,
but if it's less than that then I don't suppose the idiot light is
worth much.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: A & P License |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Last September (1997) I completed my A&P (Mechanic License with
>Airframe and
>Powerplant Ratings) based on an aircraft that I built and I do NOT
>know
>anybody in the FAA "willing to try and slide you through.". I
>documented my
>work on my aircraft which included building and maintenance. I also
>documented
>the time I helped other homebuilders on their projects. I next found
>an A&P
>willing to attest to my work (this was actually the hard part since I
>had not
>worked directly with any one particular A&P) and he wrote a letter
>recommending me for the license. the next step is to go to the FAA for
>the
>forms (permission) to take the three writtens (General, Airframe,
>Powerplant).
>After that it is three orals/practicals with a designated examiner.
>
>It is a lot of work, but it can be done.
>
>david faile, fairfield, ct
>cfii/a&p
>eaa technical counselor/flight advisor
>rv6 started
>
>
>
>David,
It is great that you got your A&P license this way, but I don't what this
to imply to every one on the list that they will be able to do so.
>From what I understand it is general FAA policy that they do not
consider building a single aircraft to have given you the work experience
that is acquired if you work under the supervision of an IA for 30
months, and they probably are right. Most RV builders after completing
there airplane will not have overhauled an engine, disassembled, repaired
and reassembled a magneto, or a carburetor, or etc, or etc. or etc.
Their may be a few FAA people in FSDO or GADO offices around the country
that would take care of it for you but I know for sure that most builders
would be sent on there way.
To substantial this you can investigate the fact that the FAA is in the
process of revamping the whole mechanic certification program to make it
training and experience related.
Right now with the A&P cert. that I have I could legally turn wrenches on
the engines mounted on the back end of a G-IV, and then sign off the
work. But I would never do that (even though I was tested on my
knowledge of them) because I have absolutely no experience working on
one. In the not to far off future the FAA will most likely be issuing
new A&P certif. that are specific to the type of work and type of
aircraft that you can work on (I.E spam cans or jumbo jets, etc.).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim R. Stone" <Stonedog(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Think before you Post! |
I've been on your "apparently-to " list on your" tip of the day" for a
month now and have not provided any comments to the RV- list. Remove my
address ASAP. J Stone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary E. Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net> |
I am building an RV-8 and plan to buy a new O-360 from Van's but I
wanted to change out the carb for some sort of injector so that I can do
aerobatics, any suggestions?
Gary Rush
RV8 Quick build on order, tail complete
Carlsbad, CA
buy a new
O-360 from Van's but I wanted to change out the carb for some sort of
injector
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< I believe you will find the first set of numbers like M22759 which
would be
a milspec number. Next usually is the wire number for its usage in a
system.
Next should be the wire size like 16. All ac wire these days is
teflon insulated
and the insulation is much thiner. >>
Actually the number following the M22759 spec number is the slash (/) sheet
number. /16 is standard wall Tefzel (Ethylene Tetrafluoroethylene) insulated
tin plated copper conductors. /17 is standard wall Tefzel (Ethylene
Tetrafluoroethylene) insulated silver plated copper conductors. I'd stick
with these two.
Teflon (Polytetrafluoroethylene or PTFE) cold flows too much to use as general
airframe wire IMO. But M16878/4 PTFE is good for wiring the radio stack
because it is much more flexible than Tefzel. In the M16878 stuff make sure
you get the 19 or more strand stuff. The 7 strand stuff breaks.
The next dash number is the AWG (gauge) of the combined stranded conductors.
After that comes the color dash number (9 is white) and then the CAGE
(Commercial and Government Entity) 5 character number.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
<3.0.5.32.19980503132627.007ae8b0(at)a.crl.com> <3.0.3.32.19980504110153.00753158(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Mike Wills wrote:
>
>
> Dave,
> Like a lot of folks, I'd like to have some electronic gizmo help me with
> that scan by flashing a light, yelling at me, and anything else it might do
> to get my attention, if it detects something wrong. Especially true during
> those first few hours of the test program. Does the RMI unit have provision
> for something like this?
Yes. It has programmable audio alarms. Check the web site:
http://rkymtn.com/rmi.htm
Sam Buchanan]
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FAR Part 43.1(b) uncertified engines vs certified |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>> I don't have a copy of the FAR's in front of me at this time so I
>can't
>> quote directly but the beginning of part 45 has a statement that in
>> general says "this part does not apply to any aircraft which has
>been
>> issued an experimental certificate of airworthiness".
>>
>> This basically means that any reg. in the FAR's related to maint. on
>an
>> aircraft (in part 45) in regards to who can do what, etc.; they do
>not
>> apply to any aircraft with an experimental C of A (even a war bird
>that
>> is flying in the experimental/exhibition category)
>----------- snip ----------
>----------- insert ----------
>FAR Part 43.1 (b) "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which
>an experimental airworthiness certificate had previoulsy been issued,
>unless a different kind of airworthiness certificate had previously
>been issued for that aircraft."
>---------- end insert ----------
>> Scott McDaniels
>> These opinions and ideas are my own
>> and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
>> of my employer.
>
>==
>Gary A. Sobek
>RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>So. CA, USA
>RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
>
>
>
Thanks Gary, See it wasn't in front of me so I didn't even get the
correct part #.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
Van's plans, sketches and instructions are not clear to me on the lap joint
of the main skins. Does the outboard skin overlap the inboard skin or does
the inboard overlap the outboard?
Tommy Walker
Ridgetop, TN
6-A Wing Skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David and Beth Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | AutoCad Panel Dwg |
Anyone out there working on designing their panel layout who has access to
AutoCad, is welcome to a copy of my panel design. When I designed mine
three years ago, it sure came in handy. Ended up making several revisions
after plotting out the full scale drawing, taping it to the panel blank in
the cockpit, and analyzed every instrument location while making sputtering
noises.
If you are interested, send me an E-Mail off list for more details.
Dave Hudgins
RV-6A, Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static ports. |
<< Therefore I was careful to
follow Van's instructions regarding static port location, which I trust
are based on flight experience. What I did not notice however, was that
Van used "universal head" blind rivets as ports. These introduce a local
low pressure (due to curvature) right at the orifice, which I do not get
with my machined, perfectly flush ports.
I have exactly the same problem, after using the fuel drain adapters on the
inside for static ports. About a 10% error, with the a/s reading low.
So, what I did was to install "dummy" rivets. I used the heads of two
3/16" AN470AD6 rivets, drilled 2mm holes in the centre of each head
(drilling before cutting off head) and glued them in place over the
flush static ports, taking care to align the holes.
I had figured this was the fix. Dang.
That was just what
was needed to correct the position error. It has been verified using
available means (clock and GPS) in a before/after test. Same day, similar
flight conditions. As a side effect, I now have no change in IAS (or
altitude)
when switching from static port to alternate static (cabin pressure).
Hmm...there should be a slight difference, as the cabin is usually a low (or
at least different) pressure area. Did you notice a difference with cabin
vents open or closed? More tests, man! A good excuse to fly, anyway.
Check six!
Mark
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cylinders for sale |
| From: | daviddla(at)Juno.com (Blah ba Blah) |
Hello everyone, the list has been a lot of help to me and I would like to
warn everyone of possible problems with the company shipping our RV
kits. The short story is I have been trying to get the shipper to make
good on a claim since Thanksgiving, 1997. They have used every excluse in
the book in rejecting my claim. The best advice I have is to request that
vans ship your package using only one carrier, you will have to ask to
find out if their is going to be a transfer to another carrier before the
package gets to you. And please do not give any business to Sierra West
Express based in Sparks, Nev. Dave Ahrens , Bakersfield, CA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derek Reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FOR-SALE 0-320 |
RAIN POOF wrote:
>
> I have an 0-320 150 HP with 2200 total time and 1100 since major. I
> believe it
> is the A2A or B, it originally came out of a Tri-pacer and most
> recently a
> Super Cub that was upgraded to 180 HP. The compression is in the high
> 70's and
> all accessories are included. crated ready to ship. Location in
> Battleground,
> Wa. I have decided to go with the 0-360. $7500. Firm
>
> Jerry Engel
> RV-6A ready for fuselage
> Rainpoof(at)aol.com
>
JerryWould like to give you a call re your engine if you still have it.
Please reply off line to
Derek Reed at dreed(at)cdsnet.net
Grans Pass OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: H2AD exhaust for RV-4 |
<< He
is concerned that Vetterman will not make an exhaust for this engine and he
is wondering what others have done regarding an exhaust system for this
airframe/engine combination. >>
Doug,
Has he asked Vetterman? I am not sure what the differences are
but mabe he should give Larry a call and ask him. Larry's usually a great
help, Im sure he would be happy to point your friend in the right direction.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Re: Filtering and Posting Enclosures to the Lists... |
>--------------
>Can anyone tell me how to attach a file using MS Mail? It works when I
>send an attachment to individuals but not when I send through Matronics.
>To matronics it merges my text with the file and sends a blank message
>with everything as an attachment.
>Woody
>--------------
Hi Woody,
I have an input filter on the incoming messages that are posted to the List
to filter out a variety of things. Among the things filtered are messages
that contain MIME and UUNECODED data enclosures. Since every message
that is posted to the List is appended to an archive file as well as
reforwarded to everyone on the List, I have restricted enclosure posting.
If a message containing a MIME or UUENCODED enclosure is posted to the List,
it should be retured to the sender (and not sent on to the whole List) with
a special message prepended indicating that the enclosure data should not
be posted to the List. Is this what you were referring to?
The RV-List archive is quickly approaching 50Mb and the Zenith-List archive
is almost 4Mb. One or two enclosures a month and the archives would grow at a
staggering rate, making affective searches impossible.
As you have done, it is best to post a message to the List asking who
would like a copy of the file or program you have and then just sending
it directly to those interested parties.
I would also be more than willing to add files to the Matronics FTP server
so that people could access the data in that matter. Please feel free
to email me (dralle(at)matronics.com) if anyone is interested in doing this.
When I started the RV-List way back in 1990, everybody on the List had
a basic, character-based email program and not much filtering was necessary.
About the worst thing that happened was someone come up with a half-page
.signature file that, in the old days, I would have to periodically go
through the archive by hand and edit out. These days, with the huge
volume of messages posted to the Lists and the large number of 'noisey'
email programs including large amounts of non-user data (i.e MIME headers,
etc.) I have implimented a number of sophisticated filtering algorithms
that darn-near strip out just about everything but the message text. If I
were to turn off these filteres, the amount of garbage that would start
showing up in List postings would be unbelievable and would cause the
archives to grow at 3 to 4 times their current rate (probably 10 times).
Anyway, sorry to go on and on, but it seemed like everyone should be
aware of the filtering and the reasoning behind it. If anyone notices that
posted messages are somehow missing lines, be sure to let me know so that
I can continue to tweek my filtering routines.
Happy Posting.
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "STEVE WHITE" <SGWHITE(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: H2AD exhaust for RV-4 |
Doug,
I don't know if this will help you much but I am putting an H2AD engine in
an RV6A the Vetterman exhaust system and the filter air box both work
without modification. different story for the cowl and Vans baffling kit.
Steve White
baffling/plumbing/wiring RV6A
Clackamas, Or ...Soon to be Independece, Or.
----------
> From: Doug Weiler <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
> To: RV Internet Group
> Cc: Mike Casmey
> Subject: RV-List: H2AD exhaust for RV-4
> Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 1:29 PM
>
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> I have a friend you will shortly be installing a 032-H2AD on this RV-4.
He
> is concerned that Vetterman will not make an exhaust for this engine and
he
> is wondering what others have done regarding an exhaust system for this
> airframe/engine combination. Also will Van's airbox fit on this engine
and
> are there any other ramifications regarding systems installation for
> a -H2AD.
>
> Thanks
>
> Doug
>
> *******************************************
> Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com> |
where do you guys locate the starter relay,alt relay and battery ground?
5 days overdue
carey mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Save $'s and Time on All 4 kits of RV4 |
A friend of mine bought a project and has decided to buy a flying RV.
Tail kit completed, wing with Phlogiston spar, 50% completed, fuselage and
finish kits still in boxes. $10500 in Florida. call Brad --561-595-5126
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
After seeing a builder tip in (I think it was Kitplanes) of an engine stand
used as a fuselage stand, I had to try it. I fabricated angle iron like
the picture shows, bolted the angle to the engine mounting holes on the
firewall, and attached it to the engine stand. What you have is a great
support for the front of plane, wheels for moving around the shop, and best
of all, it rotates around its longitudinal axis!
If anyone is interested in this handy stand, I can supply a photo on the
web...I do not yet have a
website, but I can put the image up in no time,....
Maybe this will be a candidate for Sam Buchanan's web site...
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)
Controls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RAIN POOF <RAINPOOF(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FOR-SALE 0-320 |
Derek
I have someone else interested but if it falls thru ( he is trying to scrape
up the money) I will get back to you. My phone # is 360-666-1690
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinders for sale |
>
>Hello everyone, the list has been a lot of help to me and I would like to
>warn everyone of possible problems with the company shipping our RV
>kits. The short story is I have been trying to get the shipper to make
>good on a claim since Thanksgiving, 1997. They have used every excluse in
>the book in rejecting my claim..
I had problems with ABF. Although their invoice says Hidden damage claims
can be filed up to nine months it was a huge hassle.
I think Van's is a little hamstrung because Roadway and ABF are the only
one shipping east. The lesson of the day is check everything when they drop
it off. Mine fuse crate had no exterior damage, but three of the skins were
crimped.
Shelby in Nashville.
Firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Stand |
<< and best
of all, it rotates around its longitudinal axis! >>
OK- so, now when you sit in the fuse after it comes out of the jig, you can
actually DO those aileron rolls while making those engine noises and moving
the stick...
Cool, man!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale |
This issue has me a little concerned, since I am about to write a big check
for a QB kit. Has anyone had problems with Roadway?
Chris Browne
Atlanta
-6A LE
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cylinders for sale
Date: 5/5/98 3:07 PM
...
>
>Hello everyone, the list has been a lot of help to me and I would like to
>warn everyone of possible problems with the company shipping our RV
>kits. The short story is I have been trying to get the shipper to make
>good on a claim since Thanksgiving, 1997. They have used every excluse in
>the book in rejecting my claim..
I had problems with ABF. Although their invoice says Hidden damage claims
can be filed up to nine months it was a huge hassle.
I think Van's is a little hamstrung because Roadway and ABF are the only
one shipping east. The lesson of the day is check everything when they drop
it off. Mine fuse crate had no exterior damage, but three of the skins were
crimped.
Shelby in Nashville.
Firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
I guess you mean 'inverted flight' as most aerobatics can be done with
non-injected engines.
> I am building an RV-8 and plan to buy a new O-360 from Van's but I
> wanted to change out the carb for some sort of injector so that I can do
> aerobatics, any suggestions?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: oil dipstick...RV-4 , 0-320 |
>Has anyone had to shorten the dipstick tube on their 0-320 engines to allow
>clearance between the top of the dipstick and the cowl.
Hey, Mark: I shortened and angled my tube by using 4170 steel tubing the ID
diameter of the OD of the dipstick tube. Cut a chunk out of the tube, made
the splice piece and used JB Weld to stick the two together. Very good
results. The tube doesn't interfere with the engine mount and the oil
dipstick is right where I wanted it.
I shortened my dipstick and recalibrated it with the tail down and oil
circulated in the engine. Worked great.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale |
According to Vans, Roadway is the only company that will accept the high claim
value of the QB kits. As far as I know, there is no changing of carriers. I picked
up my RV-8 QB last week at the Roadway terminal so they would have to load it on
my
truck, and I could uncrate it at my leisure. The crate had a 6" hole in one side,
proabably from a forklift fork, and another gash that looked like somebody had
backed into it. Of course nobody at the terminal knew anything about it, but they
were very helpful in noting the damage on the release form. When I opened the box,
everything was fine. I think no matter what, getting money for a claim of that
size
is going to be a hassle. It's just the chance you take when shipping a $20,000
egg.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Christopher E Browne wrote:
>
> This issue has me a little concerned, since I am about to write a big check
> for a QB kit. Has anyone had problems with Roadway?
>
> Chris Browne
> Atlanta
> -6A LE
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
BUY an 0360 with fuel injection, or find a used overhauled bendix system to
put
on it. Or do what i did and purchase an Airflow Performance system. They
work
terrific!!!!!!!!
Stew. RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAR Part 43.1(b) uncertified engines vs certified |
You will research more and find out that only a rated mechanic can return
to service a certificated engine, period. The first time you do anything
other than
preventitive maint. the engine is no longer legaly certified!!!
Stew, RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Engine mount holes |
Listers,
I've started the drilling process to put my engine mount on the firewall.
I've got one question. The center hole mounts are about 1/8" from the
firewall. The rest mated up to the firewall just fine. How did you fellas
handle a space like that? I pulled them up just fine with a 1/4" bolt;
but, I may be straining on them if I don't put shims behind them.
BTW, I just sent off the registration application for my RV. I got the
assignment letter in the mail yesterday. From now on, my RV-6A is
N198JS.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale |
I did not have a problem with Roadway at all with my QB..(-6a)...I picked
mine up from the terminal in a UHaul and they were extremely careful with
it...about 6 guys and three forklifts, pallets, boards, and about an hour
to load it. I was very impressed...the condition of the crate was perfect
as well...I tried to tip them, and they said "no thanks"
Paul Besing
RV-6A
Controls and Empennage
Scottsdale, Arizona
>
>
>
>
>Christopher E Browne wrote:
>
Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
>>
>> This issue has me a little concerned, since I am about to write a big check
>> for a QB kit. Has anyone had problems with Roadway?
>>
>> Chris Browne
>> Atlanta
>> -6A LE
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Stand |
Hello,
The complete description with pictures for using an engine stand in the
construction of an RV is in the August '97 issue of "EAA Sport Aviation",
page 119. It is that months "Hints For Home Builders" winner.
The RV6A builder who submitted the idea is:
Mr. Dale W. Ensing
RV6A
Cary, Illinois
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Left Elevator
USA/Idaho/Moscow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cylinders for sale |
Shelby Smith wrote:
> Smith)
>
> >
> >Hello everyone, the list has been a lot of help to me and I would
> like to
> >warn everyone of possible problems with the company shipping our RV
> >kits. The short story is I have been trying to get the shipper to
> make
> >good on a claim since Thanksgiving, 1997. They have used every
> excluse in
> >the book in rejecting my claim..
>
> I had problems with ABF. Although their invoice says Hidden damage
> claims
> can be filed up to nine months it was a huge hassle.
>
> I think Van's is a little hamstrung because Roadway and ABF are the
> only
> one shipping east. The lesson of the day is check everything when they
> drop
> it off. Mine fuse crate had no exterior damage, but three of the skins
> were
> crimped.
>
> Shelby in Nashville.
> Firewall.
In all fairness to ABF, I've had the wings and fuselage crates delivered
with no damage. However, the strapping
on the crates had popped off, and there were boot prints all over the
crate as someone walked all over them to get
to other packages. Also, Van might bear some of the blame with his
packing methods. I only live 700 miles south of
Portland, so I can imagine the longer trips east might add to the damage
factor. Van's has shipped skins to a fellow
builder here and twice they arrived damaged because of poor packing
methods. I don't think you can focus the blame
on a particular company as they all have their shortcomings.
Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage--ready to skin!
Silicon Valley, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | medadmin(at)aalborgkeystone.com (Dave Jones) |
| Subject: | Re: 6-A wing skins |
>
> Van's plans, sketches and instructions are not clear to me on the lap joint
> of the main skins. Does the outboard skin overlap the inboard skin or does
> the inboard overlap the outboard?
Tommy,
I call Van's on this and they told me it didn't
matter. I lapped the inboard over the outboard.
Dave Jones
Erie, Pa.
RV6 - Right Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Higgins, John J." <john_higgins(at)merck.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Wing Kit for Sale |
Listers -
I've been lurking on the list for some time and am currently working on an
RV-8 empennage. Having seen the RV-8 quick build kit at Sun N Fun and
assessing my rate of progress on the empennage, I've ordered a quick build.
This leaves a pristine RV-8 wing kit for sale in NJ - can deliver reasonable
distance - pls contact me off list via E-mail or at 201-423-7615
John Higgins
RV8 rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Shipping Companies |
I got my QB from Roadway. I had no damage on the outside of the box but
did have a dent on one of my wings internally in the box. I don't think
I did it unloading but just let it go and will have to bondo/patch over
it. It could have happened at Vans or by the shipping company. From
dealing with these guys (shipping companies) a bit, I realize that you
are just kinda screwed on the little stuff, because the quickest claim I
have ever had took 4 months. That takes a bit of the advantage out of
the quickbuild.
The real problem is when you imagine what can happen. For example
suppose they put a fork through one of the wings. Well the wings are
matched sets with the fuselage. You might have to send the whole works
back including the fuselage as the fuse is coded to the wings.
Then wait 4 months for your claim to come in,
Then wait 2- 3 months for your quickbuild to be packaged and sent from
the factory,
Then wait 2 more weeks for shipment.
In my opinion it's best just not to think "what if" something goes
wrong. It's just too disheartening.
One advise I can give you it to do your part and pick up/have the kit
delivered as soon as possible. That will remove some potential for
them to run into it.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6AQ flight controls.
Roanoke, VA
> Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
> >
> > This issue has me a little concerned, since I am about to write a
> big check
> > for a QB kit. Has anyone had problems with Roadway?
> >
> > Chris Browne
> > Atlanta
> > -6A LE
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Higgins, John J." <john_higgins(at)merck.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-8 Wing Kit for Sale |
Correction on the telephone number - old data dies hard -
> Listers -
>
> I've been lurking on the list for some time and am currently working on an
> RV-8 empennage. Having seen the RV-8 quick build kit at Sun N Fun and
> assessing my rate of progress on the empennage, I've ordered a quick
> build. This leaves a pristine RV-8 wing kit for sale in NJ - can deliver
> reasonable distance - pls contact me off list via E-mail or at
> 908-423-7615
>
> John Higgins
> RV8 rudder
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Fuselage sequence |
I'm currently riveting the rear fuselage skins on the RV4. I'm
wondering if any of you have suggestions in addition to or contrary to
the manual regarding installing some of the internal stuff like rudder
pedals, flap controls, etc. (I have electric flap option). Seems like
it would be a lot easier to put in as much as I can before skinning the
center and forward fuselage.
Thanks.
--
Bob Reiff
Reiff Preheat Systems
http://www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Sam James plenum chamber |
Last week there was a reference in a posting to Sam James' plenum
chamber. I just got his literature and searched the archive for
additional info but there is none. My questions concern the expected
speed gain (he says 5-6 mph). I am also interested in installation
difficulties, if any. Does anyone have any comments about this item?
I would add that I already have his wheelpants and wing root fairings.
They are not installed yet but look very nice.
Thanks.
--
Bob Reiff
Reiff Preheat Systems
http://www.execpc.com/reiff
______________
Subject: RV-List: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale
Date: 5/5/98 12:13 PM
This issue has me a little concerned, since I am about to write a big check
for a QB kit. Has anyone had problems with Roadway?
Chris Browne
Atlanta
-6A LE
______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________
_____
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cylinders for sale
Date: 5/5/98 3:07 PM
...
>
>Hello everyone, the list has been a lot of help to me and I would like to
>warn everyone of possible problems with the company shipping our RV
>kits. The short story is I have been trying to get the shipper to make
>good on a claim since Thanksgiving, 1997. They have used every excluse in
>the book in rejecting my claim..
I had problems with ABF. Although their invoice says Hidden damage claims
can be filed up to nine months it was a huge hassle.
I think Van's is a little hamstrung because Roadway and ABF are the only
one shipping east. The lesson of the day is check everything when they drop
it off. Mine fuse crate had no exterior damage, but three of the skins were
crimped.
Shelby in Nashville.
Firewall.
SMTP
-0700
(firewall-user@prometheus-gate.Microchip.COM [198.175.253.129]) by
titan.Microchip.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA21593 for
via smap (3.2)
From: "Christopher E Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:13:31 -0400
Subject: RV-List: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: FAR Part 43.1(b) uncertified engines vs certified |
Carefull, Stew. I can think of several ways a non A&P can do work such as
replace exhaust header without making the engine "no longer legally certified".
Am I wrong?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> You will research more and find out that only a rated mechanic can return
> to service a certificated engine, period. The first time you do anything
> other than
> preventitive maint. the engine is no longer legaly certified!!!
> Stew, RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Higgins, John J." <john_higgins(at)merck.com> |
Apologies for error on telephone number - old area codes die hard
Listers -
I've been lurking on the list for some time and am currently working on an
RV-8 empennage. Having seen the RV-8 quick build kit at Sun N Fun and
assessing my rate of progress on the empennage, I've ordered a quick build.
This leaves a pristine RV-8 wing kit for sale in NJ - can deliver reasonable
distance - pls contact me off list via E-mail or at 908-423-7615
John Higgins
RV8 rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Flying |
From: Department of Encouragement
Re: Your airplane goes really fast AND is pretty handy.
The day my mother-in-law passed away, Kelli called me at work. Four hours
later, I was 500 miles away, with her, in Texas. Try THAT on the airlines.
Thankfully, the weather was good (albeit a bumpy mid-afternoon). To be able
to jump in your own airplane (that you built, by the way) and roar off
somewhere, even if it isn't an emergency, and get there in a hurry, is a
HUGE benefit! Just you wait. It really opens up a whole new world.
Had some experiences on this trip. First exposure to just....gulp....leaving
the airplane somewhere. Alone. Where perfect STRANGERS are going grope their
grubby hands all over her to move her around. I wanted Suzie Q in a hanger
as the west Texas winds can sandblast anything in their path.
'Sure, we can put it (IT??) in the big hanger here. Just leave it on the
ramp over there. Put chocks under the wheels and face it into the wind.' "Do
you mind if I tie her down?" 'What? Oh, no, sure, go ahead. We'll roll it
into the hanger after we put the other airplanes away this afternoon.' This
was like leaving your WIFE strapped out on the ramp somewhere. What would my
airplane look like when I came back to get it? Those strobes kinda stick
out, from the wing tips there. Hanger rash. Yikes! BANG! 'Oh, rats. What was
that?' Actually, they had a spare T-hanger and she spent the time there by
herself, quite safe. Whew. Did have some greasy finger prints on the tail,
however.
I lucked out and was able to attend a local fly-in while there. Didn't get
there in time that morning to get the furthest distance award. Was fun to
show her off all the same. First one, you know. Proud papa. I was amazed to
find several folks who had no idea what kind of airplane this is. We know.
Doesn't EVERYONE know? It was also intertaining to see how interested the
Air Force Jet Jocks were in the airplane. I guess she just looked a lot like
what they just got out of. Especially since she is still in primer. 'Like
your panel. How fast this thing go?' "Oh, about as fast as the one you fly."
'Mach one?' "Yeah, pretty close to that, I think." Cool.
Did I mention what a great airplane this is?
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Beyond the Boundries
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: H2AD exhaust for RV-4 |
Doug, Vettermans exhaust fits fine on my 6 with a H2AD and so does the
air scoop and air box. I can,'t see why it wouldn't work on a 4.
John Henley, N6LD, Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount holes |
Rule of thumb.. Never pull something into position with bolts.. First of
all is there
an obvious bow to the center of the firewall? Probably not. I ended up
shimming
mine the same amount using two large area washers per side. 1/16" per
washer.
Works fine.
Stew. RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAR Part 43.1(b) uncertified engines vs certified |
HAL
I believe you will find that the exhaust system is considered an
airframe
component. They are not furnished with any engine. The airframe manuf.
installs them because each application is different per aircraft..
Stew. RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
>> I"ll be brief.. Anyone have an address for Sam James??
Stew. RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary E. Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net> |
That is correct inverted flight.
thanks,
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kempthorne <halk(at)sybase.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: O-360
>
>I guess you mean 'inverted flight' as most aerobatics can be done with
>non-injected engines.
>
>> I am building an RV-8 and plan to buy a new O-360 from Van's but I
>> wanted to change out the carb for some sort of injector so that I can do
>> aerobatics, any suggestions?
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "STEVE WHITE" <SGWHITE(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | RV GODS EXTRACT RETRIBUTION - |
Last November I wrote to the rv-list soliciting help and advice on the
fitting of the rear skirts on the RV6 sliding canopy. I had mentioned how
in my frustration after the failed third attempt at getting the skirts to
fit I had kicked the firewall leaving a slight indentation. Okay I put a
dent in the Bloody Thing!! Time passes, all things work out and we move on
to other problems --- err --- (challenges).
Last night I was doing some creative riveting on my engine baffle using the
Avery Riveting/Dimple Tool. I was distracted by a phone call.
My first mistake -- Never turn your back on an Avery Tool.
My second mistake -- Never load up your shop apron pockets with so much
stuff that they can snag Avery Tools and drag them off your work table.
My first observation -- A 24" long Avery Tool falling from a height of 32"
can obtain a near vertical attitude.
My second observation -- BIG TOES BRAKE WHEN AN AVERY TOOL LANDS ON THEM !!
Yes it was the same big toe I used to put the dent in the firewall ---
My question for the list -- Does anyone know if Avery, Cleveland Tool, or
Aircraft Spruce carry any steel toed sneakers ?? I will be getting a pair
as soon as the swellling goes down.
Steve White
RV6A, Baffling, plumbing, wiring, and toe soaking
Clackamas, Or.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WLPMAP <WLPMAP(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage sequence |
Bob
I am currently not a builder but did talk to someone this past weekend
about this type of thing..
He said he waited to cut the air vent scoops in the front skins until
he had mounted his rudder pedals. By doing it this way you can raise the
pedals up to your required level and then cut the openings in the skins for
the scoops.. Doing it the other way around and your out of luck if you've
cut your holes too low.
Mark ( Louisville ky)
Acquiring tools for 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
Hal,
Don't forget if you plan on inverted flight, you will also need an
inverted oil system. If you don not plan on pulling negative G's, you can
live with the carburetor. The second RV-8 prototype does not have an
inverted oil system or fuel injection. (correct me if I'm wrong) We have
quite a few guys doing sport aerobatics routinely without inverted oil or
fuel.
I will have inverted fuel and not oil.
Just my thoughts.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rduffy(at)servecom.picker.com> |
Hi John,
I didn't bring your e-mail address with me, so I couldn't write. How
are you feeling? You should be just about back in the fiberglass
business by now I bet. I expect to make it back Friday night.
See ya,
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage sequence |
Bob:
I have my RV-4 fuselage frame in a state similar to yours. Prior to
skinning the fuselage I would suggest completing the following:
1. rudder pedal installation, rudder cable installation (at least
the bulkhead holes)
2. electric/manual flap installation
3 floor boards and nutplates (these of course are removed when
skinning)
4. bulkhead holes for electrical wirte/conduit to rear position
light (if installated)
5. control stick assembly fitting and pushrod fabrication (F-439
and F-440)
6. placement of electric fuel pump.
This list was passed on to my by Paul McReynolds, RV guru from the Chicago
area RV builders.
Doug Weiler, MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV GODS EXTRACT RETRIBUTION - |
STEVE WHITE wrote:
>
>
> Last November I wrote to the rv-list soliciting help and advice on the
>
> fitting of the rear skirts on the RV6 sliding canopy. I had mentioned
> how
> in my frustration after the failed third attempt at getting the skirts
> to
> fit I had kicked the firewall leaving a slight indentation. Okay I put
> a
> dent in the Bloody Thing!! Time passes, all things work out and we
> move on
> to other problems --- err --- (challenges).
>
> Last night I was doing some creative riveting on my engine baffle
> using the
> Avery Riveting/Dimple Tool. I was distracted by a phone call.
>
> My first mistake -- Never turn your back on an Avery Tool.
>
> My second mistake -- Never load up your shop apron pockets with so
> much
> stuff that they can snag Avery Tools and drag them off your work
> table.
>
> My first observation -- A 24" long Avery Tool falling from a height of
> 32"
> can obtain a near vertical attitude.
>
> My second observation -- BIG TOES BRAKE WHEN AN AVERY TOOL LANDS ON
> THEM !!
>
> Yes it was the same big toe I used to put the dent in the firewall ---
>
> My question for the list -- Does anyone know if Avery, Cleveland Tool,
> Aircraft Spruce carry any steel toed sneakers ?? I will be getting a
> pair
> as soon as the swellling goes down.
>
> Steve White
> RV6A, Baffling, plumbing, wiring, and toe soaking
> Clackamas, Or.
>
>
PATIENCE, GRASSHOPPER!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuselage sequence |
Hi Bob,
I assume you are talking about the rear skins before taking it out of the
Jig. I think it would be easier to do after you get it out of the Jig.
However on mine I have it on a "spit" so I can rotate it to any position
I like to make it easier to do anything inside. And most of it has been
done now. I'm waiting on finish kit.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks California
>I'm currently riveting the rear fuselage skins on the RV4. I'm
>wondering if any of you have suggestions in addition to or contrary to
>the manual regarding installing some of the internal stuff like rudder
>pedals, flap controls, etc. (I have electric flap option). Seems like
>it would be a lot easier to put in as much as I can before skinning
>the
>center and forward fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Control Linkage. |
<< part number F669. The plans call for this
> part to be 47 1/2" long ... how can I tell this is the right
> length for "my airplane". I was thinking that with the stick in the
> neutral position (5 deg back?) and the bell crank perpendicular this
> would be a close estimation as long as I left some room for adjustment
> both ways. >>
>
> First of all 5 back for neutral position is incorrect. For the 6/6A,
3-5
> forward I believe to be more accurate. I think is shown in the plans
> somewhere. Anyway, hold the stick in this position and hold the reverser
> bellcrank vertical (normal with the longitudinal datum) in the neutral
> position. Measure from pivot hole to pivot hole. This is Dimension A.
Wherever you determine the neutral position to be, be sure to check that
the full up elevator angle can be achieved when the control weldment is
about 1/8" from F604. I believe this forced a deviation from the normal
neutral position on mine, although I can't remember how.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount holes |
| From: | rvsixer(at)Juno.com (michael d hilger) |
>
>Listers,
>
>I've started the drilling process to put my engine mount on the
>firewall.
>I've got one question. The center hole mounts are about 1/8" from the
>
>firewall. The rest mated up to the firewall just fine.
Jim,
My mount was the same and my firewall is flat. Just shim it.
Mike Hilger
RV-6 Firewall stuff/Canopy, etc...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com> |
My address appears at the top of this list.
I guess I just dont understand.
I havent listed anything for a while and then it was just short.
Granted, Im no wizard as many are with this E-mail magic, but it sure
is neat to get all this good RV info for the future build project.
If Im doing some thing wrong pleeze advise at B747400 @compuserve.com
Im always open to learn something new.
Especially when it involves this computer magic.
Thanks for your patients.
LKDXRV8Wannabee
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
| From: | rvsixer(at)Juno.com (michael d hilger) |
>
>where do you guys locate the starter relay,alt relay and battery
>ground?
>
>5 days overdue
>carey mills
>
>
>
I have Van's recess box in my firewall and I mounted both
relays on the upper slanted portion of the box on hat channels. For my
grounds I am going to use the brass ground bus that Bob Nuckolls sells on
the firewall (see the Yeller Pages; Bob's web page is very good).
The relays are mounted inside the cabin, by the way.
Mike Hilger
RV-6, Firewall stuff, systems, etc...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale |
> This issue has me a little concerned, since I am about to write a big
check
> for a QB kit. Has anyone had problems with Roadway?
>
Chris,
I've used Roadway for all my kits, with only one issue. I live about 30
miles from their terminal, and for me, it is easier to pick up the crate at
their site rather than scheduling a delivery. This also saves shipping
costs. They tried to deny me the savings (about 50 bucks) the last time
when I picked it up, until I pointed out on the invoice where it said
"homedel" or something like that. I always wonder how I can know more
about their business than they do....
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
Stew. RV4 asked:
>> I"ll be brief.. Anyone have an address for Sam James??
Yep. Sam's address is:
Sam James
1285 Schooner Lane SW
Moore Haven, FL 33471
FYI, I spoke to him last week, and just got his latest price list. Prices
(and parts) are:
1) Cooling Plenum for 200 hp lyc: $410 + $25 shipping
2) Cooling Plenum for 160/180 hp lyc: $400 + $25 shipping
3) Axisymmetric air intakes (pr) $75. Note, you have to fit these to your
cowling.
4) 2 Piece wheelpants $150 + $25 shipping.
5) Wing root fairings $200 + $25 s&h
6) Fiberglass video $30.
I'm probably going with the wheelpants - they are a 2 piece design, and are
somewhat less bulbous than the 2 piece fairings Van's offers. Several of the
"fast" RV's use them. Tracy Saylor, for one.
I'm still considering the plenum and axisymmetric air intakes. Combined, the
cost is over $500, and it sounds like a significant amount of fiberglass work.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Companies...and fiberglass |
A
>>
>>Christopher E Browne wrote:
>>
>Browne"<cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
>>>
>>> This issue has me a little concerned, since I am about to write a big check
>>> for a QB kit. Has anyone had problems with Roadway?
>>>
>>> Chris Browne
>>> Atlanta
>>> -6A LE
>>>I have a shipping story which may be of interest.
>>I had no problems with Roadways but had a bit of a problem with ABF.
Roadways delivered my wing, and fuselage (3 big boxes, 600lbs total), and it
cost me $250.00 . When I ordered the finishing kit ABF delivered it (1 box
275lbs total) and they wanted to charge me $800.00
After much bantering back and forth they lowered the price to 400.00
(still too much but....) Seems they (shippers) have different shipping rates
for different materials (I understand this). The problem lies in the fact
that they deemed the whole finishing kit to be fibergalass (Van's put
`fiberglass parts' on the bill of lading), which costs more to ship than
aluminum or steel...go figure...more mass for the same weight or something.
After explaining that only a percentage of the kit was actually fiberglass
did they agree to redo the shipping charges....Moral of this story......be
wary of the various shipping rates when you ship/receive.
Marc DeGirolamo
RV-4.......wings OFF again...engine/cowl/canopy next
mdee(at)dlcwest.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip- up Canopy |
Hello fellow builders,
I am installing the tip- up canopy at this time on my RV-6 and have a concern at
the forward area of the side rails of the canopy frame. How do you get the forward
canopy skin to lay down far enough into the side rail so as to let the plexi-glass
nestle into the side rail joggle? I have probably made a good goof as I have
already riveted the front skin on to the canopy frame and had not looked far
enough ahead to see the predicament I had made for myself. The rest of the bubble
is fitting very well.
Thanks in advance for any help you tip-up builders can offer.
Doug Murray - RV-6 in Alberta Canada.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Shumway" <dshumway(at)casewaretech.com> |
| Subject: | Bladder Buster Tanks |
Has anyone used or are familiar with Reed Mfg. auxiliary tanks for the
RV's?
I have an 0360 CS and I weigh 150 lbs so the added fuel and weight won't
bother me much. But I am curious of anyones experience or opinion.
Thanks
D. Shumway
Reed Mfg.
lbs so the
added fuel and weight won't bother me much. But I am curious of anyones
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
Bob,
You say you have literature on Sam James' plenum chamber. Would you mind
posting a brief description of them on the list? I have something like
that in mind for future fitting to my RV-4.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Ahamer" <ascot(at)hinet.net.au> |
trying to find a way of stopping the battery from moving up and down inside
the box.
Have some ideas but u might have a better one....please let me now how u
did it.
many thanks
Karl Ahamer RV6AQ just about to beginn wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tien Do <wizard(at)tartarus.uwa.edu.au> |
| Subject: | RV-List : Fixing holes |
Hi guys,
Just a question regarding fixing holes that are drilled on the edge. ie
the hole is half on half off. This has occured while dilling the FL606A
onto the flap spar and rib. It is the rib that has this overhaning
hole. Any suggestions?
Tien
RV6A, Finishing wings
Perth, Western Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount holes |
Listers,
Thanks to those who answered my question concerning the space
at the center holes. I will be putting shims in there today. I, too, felt it
was not the right thing to do to pull them into the firewall with the
bolts. I could just see a break forming in the engine mount. I just
wanted someone else's opinion.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Wow, that new N number sure looks great. :-) )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Sam James plenum chamber |
> I'm still considering the plenum and axisymmetric air intakes. Combined, the
> cost is over $500, and it sounds like a significant amount of fiberglass work.
But...considering you save the cost of the regular baffle kit and
silicone seals, that brings the "net" cost of Sam's plenum and inlets to
about $300.
--
Bob Reiff
Reiff Preheat Systems
http://www.execpc.com/reiff
and costs $400 + $25. The round "laminar
profile axisymmetric inlets" to be installed into the cowling and used
with the chamber are designed by the Miss. State Univ. Aerospace
Engineering Dept. and cost $75.
Advantages are:
1) reduced drag and increased speed (I think he said 5-6 mph).
2) more uniform CHT's as the plenum feeds the same mount of air through
each cylinder
3) less wear and tear on the cowling as it is not pressurized (should
help prevent the loose piano hinge problems I read so much about).
--
Bob Reiff
Reiff Preheat Systems
http://www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wesley T Robinson <wesleyt(at)twave.net> |
| Subject: | Static Line Routing |
Hello Listers,
I am installing Van's static system into my RV-6A and was wondering what was the
best way to route the line toward the firewall. Can I drill some #30 holes thru
the main longeron and attach the line to it with cable ties? Or should I route
it
lower down on the fuse above the rudder cable?
Thanks
Wesley Robinson
RV-6A Hickory, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
>I am installing Van's static system into my RV-6A and was wondering what
was the
>best way to route the line toward the firewall. Can I drill some #30 holes thru
>the main longeron and attach the line to it with cable ties? Or should I
route it
>lower down on the fuse above the rudder cable?
>
I routed mine under the arm rest. To hold the line in place between
bulkheads, I taped it in place temporarily, then "glued" it to the fuselage
side skin in several places with clear RTV.
I found that using a dab of RTV every couple of inches was also a neat way
to secure an wire that could not easily be secured by conventional means. (I
used this method for the wire to the eyeball flood lights that are mounted
in the top of the aft frame on my tip-up canopy.)
Mark, Green Bay, WI
RV-6; flying, 202 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
>I'm still considering the plenum and axisymmetric air intakes. Combined, the
>cost is over $500, and it sounds like a significant amount of fiberglass work.
>
>Kyle Boatright
>
Kyle,
Not exactly as Van's baffle kit isn't free. Just something to consider.
Scott Gesele N506RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Cable Exit |
Per the drawings, there are some conflicting places for the rudder cables
to exit...Oh, how I do not want to cut a whole in such a pretty side
skin...can someone give me a clue as to EXACTLY where to have the cables exit?
Next, the metal plates that connect the cables to the rudder
pedals...should I wait to have everything linked up to determine the length
of the plates?
thanks in advance..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)
Controls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: My RV-8 QB has arrived! |
In message <354A1309.13932910(at)bellatlantic.net>, MoeJoe
writes
> slippery wings (they coat them with WD-40)
>
Sorry to have to mention this now you have your new toy, But!
Be careful with the paint job and get rid of the WD40. It is a pain to
get rid of when preparing for paint.
This is how I know.
I had a glider trailer delivered with WD40 on the bare aluminium. We
thought we got it all off when we painted it and we were careful, but
now after six years we have paint cracks on some of the joints were it
it was obvious we could not get the WD40 out unless we de rivited it.
The paint has flaked of were it did not bond properly due to the WD40
seeping out after washing before painting.
Ther are probably some good solvents out there that will clean it
off.(we used thinners and soapy water and a lot of elbow grease), talk
to the paint people.
RV8 80274
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael_Markert(at)vul.com (Michael Markert) |
subscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JAMES D. WOLF" <JJA.WOLF(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Self etching primer |
I am a new subscriber and I think this subject has already been beat to
death, but I have a fairly specific question:
Regarding Sherwin Williams Wash Primer (P60G2); can it be top coated
after fully cured with Dupont DP40? or, is there a preferred method or
type of coating that will work? I have not been able to find a
satisfactory answer from the SW literature.
Thanks,
Jim Wolf
RV6 abuild'n in Long Beach, CA
JJA.WOLF(at)worldnet.att.net
this subject
has already been beat to death, but I have a fairly specific
Williams Wash
Primer (P60G2); can it be top coated after fully cured with
color=3D#000000 size=3D2>ont DP40? or, is there a preferred method
or type of
coating that will work? I have not been able to find a
satisfactory answer
href=3D"mailto:JJA.WOLF(at)worldnet.att.net">JJA.WOLF(at)worldnet.att.net| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
<< I'm still considering the plenum and axisymmetric air intakes. Combined,
the
>cost is over $500, and it sounds like a significant amount of fiberglass
work.
>
>Kyle Boatright
> >>
Kyle, and others:
Speed ain't free. Tracy Saylor had an amazing speed this year in the Sun 100-
236 mph or so. Man, that's moving! I don't know RPM or engine (O-360, c/s
prop) mods, but I can say that his airframe is v smooth. He has the "Hott
Tips" also, but the results from these on a -6 are not v clear. He actually
attributed his gain from the past recorded speeds to his Savier ignition- the
new plasma style. I recall 218 (still pretty fast) as his speed last year, or
the year before. He said his ONLY change from that setup is the ignition. I'm
sorry to spend your money for you, but it sounds like you'll need both the
plenum and the ignition.
Sam's pcs will reduce cooling drag, which is a significant part (25%, I think)
of the total drag on these airframes. Yup, it's some 'glass work, but it would
seem to produce good results for the time/$$$ invested, without simply shoving
more fuel thru the motor (more HP=more speed). Keep in mind that to go twice
as fast with no airframe changes, it takes four times the HP (or fuel flow). I
recall that it would take 480HP to get a Champ to go 200 mph. Now THAT would
be a ride! Hmmmm...... maybe one of those turbines like is installed in the
Legend....
I better get started!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
<< I am installing Van's static system into my RV-6A and was wondering what
was the
best way to route the line toward the firewall. Can I drill some #30 holes
thru
the main longeron and attach the line to it with cable ties? Or should I
route it
lower down on the fuse above the rudder cable? >>
We used some of those white nylon cable tie bases that are about 1" square and
normally are attached to a surface with double stick foam tape. We pull the
tape off and slather up the mounting surface with proseal. Place against the
inside skin just below the longeron at about 8-10" intervals and retain with
masking tape until the proseal cures. Then tie wrap the line to the bases.
No holes in structure.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Heinlein <steveh(at)us.ibm.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing (lowest point of the system |
>>I am installing Van's static system into my RV-6A and was wondering what
>>was the
>>best way to route the line toward the firewall. Can I drill some #30 holes
thru
>>the main longeron and attach the line to it with cable ties? Or should I
>>route it
>>lower down on the fuse above the rudder cable?
>>
>I routed mine under the arm rest. To hold the line in place between
>bulkheads, I taped it in place temporarily, then "glued" it to the fuselage
>side skin in several places with clear RTV.
I am at the same point on my fuse and then I remembered being told that the
lowest point of the static system should be the static port opening(s). Is this
true? Maybe theoretically it is, but how about practically? If you really
want to keep the static ports as the lowest point, then routing the lines under
the armrest instead of just below the main longeron would be a problem
(at least for me, building a -6A). Any ideas out there on this one?
Stephen Heinlein
steveh(at)us.ibm.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
> ... to go twice as fast with no airframe changes, it takes four times the HP
I think it's closer to eight times... cruise power goes up basically with
speed cubed. Drag goes up with speed squared.
John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A 25088,
elevator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Perforated Tape for Propeller and Wings |
Does anybody else have any info/rumors/hard data on how the perforated
tape worked (or didn't work more likely) on RV's? My results were very
disappointing and I removed the tape. Noticed that the minor (very
minor) clear polyurethane "circles" left after the tape was removed gave
me about 50RPM more than normal; and that bit of poly was so small that
you could barely feel it, and it could only be seen if the light was
right.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Barry Dwyer" <bddwyer(at)rogers.wave.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
>> Keep in mind that to go twice as fast with no airframe changes, it takes
four times the HP (or fuel flow).
It's worse than that. If I remember my A.C. Kermode, drag (and required
horsepower) increases as the *cube* of speed: to go twice as fast requires
8x the horsepower. Speed is never cheap, but speed through drag reduction is
an absolute bargain compared to the horsepower alternative.
Barry Dwyer
Spam can goes to new owner today,
Van gets check tomorrow.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
If you are using a starter such as mark lindalls it has a start solenoid
built
right in to it. Stew. RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
Most installations I've seen have the static line up against the
longeron or under the arm rest. Be advised that if the static line
goes below the level of the ports then you have the potential for
water to be trapped in the line and should put a water trap in (Chief
part number CES S1258-1).
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (finish/engine)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Exit |
> Per the drawings, there are some conflicting places for the rudder cables
> to exit...Oh, how I do not want to cut a whole in such a pretty side
> skin...can someone give me a clue as to EXACTLY where to have the cables exit?
Dwg. 34 shows the rudder cable hole at 10" below the longeron and
151 1/2 from the firewall. That's where I put mine.
> Next, the metal plates that connect the cables to the rudder
> pedals...should I wait to have everything linked up to determine the length
> of the plates?
I think so. I made temporary links out of aluminum and sat in the
plane and found the best combination of travel and space for my big
feet before I made the steel ones.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sam James plenum chamber |
> ... to go twice as fast with no airframe changes, it takes four times the
HP
I think it's closer to eight times... cruise power goes up basically with
speed cubed. Drag goes up with speed squared.
>>
Hmmmmm......that would explain the 480 HP requirement to get my Champ going
200 MPH. 4X65 is NOT 480, last time I looked. Of course, the engine only
develops 65 HP in its dreams...
In any case, I'd better stick to something I know more about- bending rivets
and drilling holes in my fingers...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip- up Canopy |
Douglas G. Murray wrote:
>
How do you get the forward
> canopy skin to lay down far enough into the side rail so as to let the plexi-glass
> nestle into the side rail joggle? I have probably made a good goof as I have
> already riveted the front skin on to the canopy frame and had not looked far
> enough ahead to see the predicament I had made for myself.
Doug, I seem to recall that I riveted the canopy skin before I did the
joggle. You might see if my notes at www.flash.net/~gila are any help
to you. The joggle need not be very long, just enough to permit the
plexi to slide gracefully off the canopy skin into the side slot. The
joggle will be covered with fiberglass so it need not be really
beautiful, just functional. I even used electrical pliers to persuade
the skin to joggle!
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
RV-6A Rudder connect and instrument panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing (lowest point of |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>I am at the same point on my fuse and then I remembered being told that the
>lowest point of the static system should be the static port opening(s).
>Is this
>true? Maybe theoretically it is, but how about practically? If you really
>want to keep the static ports as the lowest point, then routing the lines
>under
>the armrest instead of just below the main longeron would be a problem
>(at least for me, building a -6A). Any ideas out there on this one?
>
>Stephen Heinlein
>steveh(at)us.ibm.com
>
In Van's instructions the line is run along the upper longeron. Static
port is lowest point. Probably the reason for this is that there is
nothing to prevent water from entering the static system from the ports.
When it enters it is going to want to go to the lowest point which
effectively plugs the system up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing (lowest point of the system |
<< I am at the same point on my fuse and then I remembered being told that the
lowest point of the static system should be the static port opening(s). Is
this
true? Maybe theoretically it is, but how about practically? >>
I think that the static ports should always be the lowest point in the system
with the line interconnecting the two ports on either side of the fuse going
over the top. The main static line should sweep up and forward from the tee
with no sags or low points that could trap moisture and freeze closed.
After routing the line forward along the underside of the left longeron, I ran
it thru at the 6A slider canopy deck and then to the instruments with no dips
or rises.
I recommend not fighting physics whenever possible because physics seems to
win everytime. Remember, Father Physics is the law and he never sleeps.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< If you are using a starter such as mark lindalls it has a start solenoid
built
right in to it. Stew. RV4
>>
Ditto for the Sky-tec units....Of course, that will leave you with a hot wire
fwd of the firewall, but that wire can also be used to connect the alt to the
battery.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Totland <mail.algonet.se> |
| Subject: | Re: Static ports. |
>>I now have no change in IAS (or altitude) when switching from static port
to >>alternate static (cabin pressure).
>
>Hmm...there should be a slight difference, as the cabin is usually a low (or
>at least different) pressure area. Did you notice a difference with cabin
>vents open or closed? More tests, man! A good excuse to fly, anyway.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
> >>
Cabin vents were open all the time. I usually fly with either vents open or
heat on. Air is taken from the rear baffle in both cases. I do not remember
having seen a differens in pressure before, but I'll check again next time I
fly (when the weather gets better).
Ernst
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Perforated Tape for Propeller and Wings |
I have heard that tape on the prop decreases performance, and on the wings
it increases perfomance. This came from a gentlemen (RV-6) who had both,
and his performance increased when he took the tape off of the prop...
Paul Besing
RV-6A Controls
>
>Does anybody else have any info/rumors/hard data on how the perforated
>tape worked (or didn't work more likely) on RV's? My results were very
>disappointing and I removed the tape. Noticed that the minor (very
>minor) clear polyurethane "circles" left after the tape was removed gave
>me about 50RPM more than normal; and that bit of poly was so small that
>you could barely feel it, and it could only be seen if the light was
>right.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Keep it Short! |
Larry.K.Daudt wrote:
>
>
> My address appears at the top of this list.
> I guess I just dont understand.
> I havent listed anything for a while and then it was just short.
> Granted, Im no wizard as many are with this E-mail magic, but it sure
> is neat to get all this good RV info for the future build project.
> If Im doing some thing wrong pleeze advise at B747400 @compuserve.com
> Im always open to learn something new.
> Especially when it involves this computer magic.
> Thanks for your patients.
> LKDXRV8Wannabee
>
Larry,
We all get the same messages. They are not slaps-on-the-wrist for
bodashish messages by any particular user. These are just reminders to
the List users that help keep the hard drive capacity below a gillion
nano-gigs.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip- up Canopy |
Doug,
I've spoken to Will on other subjects and he's a good source of info.
There are different ways to skin this cat. I did not do a "joggle".
You'll understand what I did when you see the picture.
I'll mail it tomorrow.
Bob
San Antonio
----------
> From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
> Doug, I seem to recall that I riveted the canopy skin before I did the
> joggle. You might see if my notes at www.flash.net/~gila are any help
> to you. The joggle need not be very long, just enough to permit the
> plexi to slide gracefully off the canopy skin into the side slot. The
> joggle will be covered with fiberglass so it need not be really
> beautiful, just functional. I even used electrical pliers to persuade
> the skin to joggle!
>
> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
> RV-6A Rudder connect and instrument panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvsixer(at)Juno.com (michael d hilger) |
I plan to use Cablecraft non-vernier throttle and vernier mixture
cables for my engine. This is an RV-6, slider, O-360-A1A, and the
controls will be mounted on a small sub-panel below the standard panel.
Carb is a Marvel MA4-5. My question is: What length should I specify when
I order the cables? I haven't mounted the engine yet.
Mike Hilger
Inver Grove Hgts, MN
RV-6 N207AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Low Compression? |
| From: | ebundy(at)Juno.com (Ed Bundy) |
I have about 180 hours on a factory new 0320. I did the first
compression check on the engine and 3 of the cylinders are 74-76, but #2
is 58. All or most of the leakage is past the rings because I can cover
the breather tube and it pressurizes. It doesn't sound like there is
any leakage past the valves. Is it possible that all of the ring gaps
are lining up? How likely is that? The engine has always run great,
and everything I've read says that this happens from time to time and
to check it again in 10 hours, but come on - this shouldn't be happening
on a new engine should it?
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@juno.com - http://www.bigskytel.com/~ebundy/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WLPMAP <WLPMAP(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount holes |
Jim,,
so you still retired and working on the rv i see..
I plan to check on the UPS simulator schedule tomorrow and
will let you know my friday about possible dates..
thanks again for all your help last week..
Mark and Wendie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WLPMAP <WLPMAP(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV GODS EXTRACT RETRIBUTION - |
Steve,
Are the steel sneakers to protect your toes or
to keep you from being able to lift your foot high enough to kick you RV..?
Mark
Louisville Ky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johnnie989 <Johnnie989(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Perforated Tape for Propeller and Wings |
I had a Lengthy talk with the man who invented the perforated tape last
Sunday. It was interesting to hear his ideas and theories about how and why
the tape works. I suggest as I have done before that you call him up and tell
him your results with the tape. I am sure he would be a great help.
Johnnie989(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Static Line Routing |
Wesley, I would say not to drill into the longeron if you can help from
it. I would tuck it up underneith some way or another and put a little
dab of glue or silicone rubber to hold it in place although I haven't
really studie d the plans or routing of it yet.
Phil Wesley T Robinson wrote:
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I am installing Van's static system into my RV-6A and was wondering
> what was the
> best way to route the line toward the firewall. Can I drill some #30
> holes thru
> the main longeron and attach the line to it with cable ties? Or should
> I route it
> lower down on the fuse above the rudder cable?
>
> Thanks
> Wesley Robinson
> RV-6A Hickory, NC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Compression? |
>
> I have about 180 hours on a factory new 0320. I did the first
> compression check on the engine and 3 of the cylinders are 74-76, but #2
> is 58. All or most of the leakage is past the rings because I can cover
> the breather tube and it pressurizes. It doesn't sound like there is
> any leakage past the valves. Is it possible that all of the ring gaps
> are lining up? How likely is that? The engine has always run great,
> and everything I've read says that this happens from time to time and
> to check it again in 10 hours, but come on - this shouldn't be happening
> on a new engine should it?
Ed,
Did you check them cold. That could be your problem. If you didn't check
it
hot ( not just letting it warm up on the ramp) flying it for 30 minutes first,
you
can get a low reading. I had a new cylinder do the same thing when I checked
it cold. After I warmed it up on the ramp, it was worse. After a call to a
friend
who has umpteen hours and owned a lot of planes. He told me to go fly it
and then check it. Turned out to be 80/80 after it was flown.
You don't care what it reads cold, it don't operate cold.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
Jim I personally think you are going to have engine problems if you
start running inverted with no inverted oil. You can buy a system or if
you had a lathe or someone to make a couple of peices, you could put on
a continuous oil system for not too much money. The Christien system is
the very basic system that all acro people use. A typical basic system
can be built from scratch by almost any one for probably less than $100.
Mine cost about $30 15 years ago. If you want drwings let me know....
Phil
Jim Cimino wrote:
>
> Hal,
> Don't forget if you plan on inverted flight, you will also
> need an
> inverted oil system. If you don not plan on pulling negative G's, you
> can
> live with the carburetor. The second RV-8 prototype does not have an
> inverted oil system or fuel injection. (correct me if I'm wrong) We
> have
> quite a few guys doing sport aerobatics routinely without inverted oil
> fuel.
> I will have inverted fuel and not oil.
> Just my thoughts.
>
> Jim Cimino
> RV-8 sn 80039
> http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
> (717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale |
Alex. What was the cost to our area Via Roadaway?
Im thinking of doing a little vacation to the great Northwest next year and
haul the 1000 lb box behind my car to Mn.
LKD tail kit ordered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Compression? |
Ed, a Lyc. rep just recently told me that if during a compression check
you get a cylinder that reads low, just as yours is , that in all
likelyhood the ring grooves are lining up. The fix is to go run the
engine for a while and then check them again. If low pressure still
exists then you had better call Lycoming.
--
Abby Razer
Barbara Razer
Molly the Dog and
Chet Razer
razer(at)midwest.net
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale |
>LKD tail kit ordered
You better buy a big motor for that thing Larry or you will be panther food!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>trying to find a way of stopping the battery from moving up and down inside
>the box.
>Have some ideas but u might have a better one....please let me now how u
>did it.
>many thanks
>Karl Ahamer RV6AQ just about to beginn wiring.
when we STC'd the B&C batteries into certified singles,
simple painted plywood spacers were used to take up the
slack where the B&C battery was smaller than the battery
we were replacing.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wntzl(at)execpc.com (David M Wentzell) |
| Subject: | One wing or two? |
I am getting ready to start the wings. Any comments on building one at a
time or both at once?
wntzl(at)execpc.com
RV6 - finishing the rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< << If you are using a starter such as mark lindalls it has a start
solenoid
built
right in to it. Stew. RV4
>>
Ditto for the Sky-tec units....Of course, that will leave you with a hot wire
fwd of the firewall, but that wire can also be used to connect the alt to the
battery. >>
I'm confused as to this talk of solenoids on the starters. Yes, the Sky-tec
has a solenoid on the starter. But this is not a solenoid (more accurately
called a contactor) that turns the starter, it is a solenoid that throws the
pinion gear out to engage the ring gear (old style starters do this with a
Bendix spring) when 12V is supplied thru a starter contactor by the starter
switch.
Am I missing some subtle stuff here or are you guys all wet?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Listers,
I am to the point in my laboring where I need to drill my wing ribs to the
spars. I am trying to understand the instructions as to the procedure they
recommend for setting up the spacing and then drilling to the spars. While
the concept is not complicated, I refuse to drill holes in airplane parts
until I thoroughly understand what I want to end up with. Any thoughts or
comments on how y'all did it? Van's strong warning in the instructions
about making sure your rivet hole pattern works for all the ribs has me
somewhat snake-bitten. It seems so simple. Am I reading to much into this,
or is there something I'm missing?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Wing Spars finally done.....
Onto the endless sea of ribs.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One wing or two? |
Takes twice as many clecoes.
Usually the same mistake is made on both wings. For example, you do steps
1, 2, 3 to wing A and then steps 1, 2, 3 to wing B. On doing step 4 to wing
A, you discover an error in step 2 which is, of course, already done to
both wings. If you had built one wing at a time, this error in step 2
would have been corrected when doing wing B.
It will save time.
I would do it again.
Bob
M Wentzell)
>
> I am getting ready to start the wings. Any comments on building one at a
>time or both at once?
> wntzl(at)execpc.com
> RV6 - finishing the rudder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bob Haan
bhaan(at)easystreet.com
Portland, OR
RV6A 24461 Working on Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Low Compression? |
<< Is it possible that all of the ring gaps are lining up? How likely is
that? >>
It is possible, and it is about as likely as the probability/possibility that
you will be struck with lightming, during the next year. How much would you be
willing to bet against those odds?
Have someone check your ring gaps. Make sure it is not happening. Don't try to
hedge the bet.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Bladder Buster Tanks |
-----Original Message-----
From: David Shumway <dshumway(at)casewaretech.com>
Date: Wednesday, 6 May 1998 15:45
Subject: RV-List: Bladder Buster Tanks
>
>
>
>Has anyone used or are familiar with Reed Mfg. auxiliary tanks for the
>RV's?
>I have an 0360 CS and I weigh 150 lbs so the added fuel and weight won't
>bother me much. But I am curious of anyones experience or opinion.
>
>Thanks
>
>D. Shumway
>
>
>
>Reed Mfg.
>lbs so the
>added fuel and weight won't bother me much. But I am curious of anyones
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I went through the same process of trying to find out about the Bladder
Buster Tanks, after reading the advert in Kit Planes April '97. The advert
only appeared once. All my enquires proved fruitless (who has seen or used
them). For those who do not know what the Bladder Buster Tank is, here is an
clip from the advert:
" These aluminium .040 T-3 tanks increase wing span 18 inches, add 17
gallons of fuel (I assume both tanks), lower stall speed 2 MPH and add
stability in turbulence, with no effect on C.G. Easy to retrofit. Fits
between fibreglass tip and wing. We ship complete and ready to install.
$1950 plus freight." In further pursuit of carrying extra fuel, I was able
to establish that Jon Johanson, has made available through Vans as an
accessory, his tip tanks. These are basically completed new tips, that
replace the old tips, can retrofit to flying RV's and be installed on new
wings. Each tank holds 34 liters, has the same filler cap and comes in three
models. Basic model, no nav/stobes, "schmicko" model nav/strobe in front
section with cover and external strobe model, suits Whelen Model A650 or
A600. The good thing about Jon's kit is: it's available from Vans, it does
not change the RV look and it's been well proven. Hope this is of help. One
set of these tanks were received by Julio Tonion for his RV8QB last Monday,
and he said they are a work of art, and top quality. I'm not shore what the
price is from Vans in US$, but I am sure that they would be cheaper than
Farn Reed's. Jon has really excelled himself with this product!!
Regards,
Ken Glover, Newcastle Australia, Saving frantically for a set, for soon to
arrive RV4. VH-MKW. Ex Julio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Keep it Short! |
>We all get the same messages. They are not slaps-on-the-wrist for
>bodashish messages by any particular user. These are just
>reminders to the List users that help keep the hard drive capacity
>below a gillion nano-gigs.
Unfortunately, not many are paying attention to them. I try to answer
common questions offline to save archive space. Copying full
messages is a common problem. It only takes seconds to delete out
most of the message and reply to a specific question. We are all
guilty of this problem sometimes. Some of us do it all of the time. All
the messages in the world will not fix the problem if the listers don't
read and adhere to them.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvmils <Rvmils(at)aol.com> |
i followed the plans using .063 alum. angle, the ground and relays are not
covered however.
carey mills
7days overdue
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com> |
In a message dated 5/7/98 2:06:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM writes:
> Van's strong warning in the instructions
> about making sure your rivet hole pattern works for all the ribs has me
> somewhat snake-bitten.
I just finished mounting the ribs to my left spar. My big problem was with
the aft spar and figuring out where the rib rivets should go to clear the flap
brace which will be mounted later. I drilled ribs 3, 4 and 5 per the drilling
pattern on the plans and had to order six replacement ribs because they have a
different hole pattern.
You can match drill the forward flange of the main and nose rib pairs on the
bench, but stay far enough away from the web to allow a pop rivet tool to get
in there later. Some of mine are a little close and it will be hard to get a
rivet tool in there.
Van's warning about the hole pattern workin for all ribs is to keep you from
drilling through a spar stiffener, I believe. This was not a problem if you
pay attention to what you are doing before you drill.
The thing that aggravates me most is having to file bolt heads to clear the
rib attach angles. All my mains were fine, but I had to file down three of
the tip rib bolts.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)ornaprod.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One wing or two? |
I am building both at the same time and would not do it any other way.
Likely just my nature, but I would have a hard time getting myself modivated
to do the same thing over again after the triumph of finishing the first
wing!
Yes you need many more cleoco's! Another advantage is that the little jigs
you have to make up can be used twice right way and not get lost or damaged
during the wait for construction of the second wing. Just read the
instructions carefully to be sure you aren't doing something stupid.
If you want to see what mine look like, check out
http://paulried.home.mindspring.com
Thank God, Van didn't design a bi-plane or I would be in the looney bin
after deburring all the holes!!!
Paul Riedlinger
-----Original Message-----
From: David M Wentzell <wntzl(at)execpc.com>
Date: Thursday, May 07, 1998 1:36 AM
Subject: RV-List: One wing or two?
> I am getting ready to start the wings. Any comments on building one at a
>time or both at once?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
<19971009.204841.4863.0.GASobek(at)juno.com> <3.0.1.16.19971010103823.2807ce24(at)dtc.net>
<343F7B36.53C3(at)medeserv.com.au>
Last night I finally got around to inventorying my RV-8QB kit, and noticed that
there was no maual, or at least there was no manual that I could find. I found
plans, and the preview plans set, which seems to be building instructions for the
whole regular kit. Am I missing something, or is there no "quickbuild" manual?
If
there is a QB manual, can anyone tell me where it would be packed?
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< < << If you are using a starter such as mark lindalls it has a start
solenoid
built
right in to it. Stew. RV4
>>
Ditto for the Sky-tec units....Of course, that will leave you with a hot
wire
fwd of the firewall, but that wire can also be used to connect the alt to
the
battery. >>
I'm confused as to this talk of solenoids on the starters. Yes, the Sky-tec
has a solenoid on the starter. But this is not a solenoid (more accurately
called a contactor) that turns the starter, it is a solenoid that throws the
pinion gear out to engage the ring gear (old style starters do this with a
Bendix spring) when 12V is supplied thru a starter contactor by the starter
switch.
Am I missing some subtle stuff here or are you guys all wet?
-GV
GV, and others:
You are correct about the starter solenoids. Now, take a look at your Sky-tec
starter. It has a small wire connected to the lug that the #2 or #4 wire
attaches to. If you run this wire to a 12V momentary switch, that switch can
be your start switch. In other words, you can operate without the starter
solenoid (the one usually mounted inside the a/c). This is directly fron the
folks at Sky-tec, btw. A new twist, eh?
Check six!
Mark
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Hi Moe!
I got the full set of non QB plans with the tail order, then got the
specific QB excerpt with the QB.
Of course caveat this with the fact that I am building a 6A.
Good luck and good riveting!
Gary Fesenbek
RV(Roanoke, VA), 6AQ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Maurice Colontonio [SMTP:moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 07, 1998 7:57 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: QB manual
>
>
>
> Last night I finally got around to inventorying my RV-8QB kit, and
> noticed that
> there was no maual, or at least there was no manual that I could find.
> I found
> plans, and the preview plans set, which seems to be building
> instructions for the
> whole regular kit. Am I missing something, or is there no "quickbuild"
> manual? If
> there is a QB manual, can anyone tell me where it would be packed?
>
> --
> Moe Colontonio
> moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bowed HS Spar - Update |
Awhile back, I found that the rear spar of my HS developed a set which
resulted in a bow as I drilled/riveted it in the jig (the jig is
straight). I was very concerned about how this would affect the rest
of the HS. On Van's advise, I drilled out the edge rivets and set the
assembly aside so I could build an elevator.
I finished the right elevator last night and test fitted it to the HS
which I clecoed back together. I found, well... nothing. There is so
much adjustment in the rod end bearings that the 1/8" tip to tip bend
is negligible, the elevator horn doesn't wobble and the general fit is
great. In the final analysis, there is little value in agonizing over
jig brackets, etc, after you get them aligned. I must have rechecked
them ten times as I built the HS which, incidentally, added to my
disappointment when I found the bow. There is only one alignment
variable for the HS brackets which the rod end bearings cannot adjust
for, and this is set by Vans computer when the HS spar, flange strips,
and brackets are prepunched. I will, however, avoid setting rivets in
a line from now on.
Anyway, I have recovered from my first major attack of new builder
panic. While I know it will happen again, at least a have a little
perspective. Of course, now the whole world knows that my RV has a
bow in the HS, so there goes my shot at Quickbuild Grand Champion .
Chris Browne
-6A LE
Atlanta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
>At 01:04 AM 5/7/98 Yes, the Sky-tec has a solenoid on the starter. But
this is not a >solenoid (more accurately called a contactor) that turns the
starter, it is a solenoid >that throws the pinion gear out to engage the
ring gear (old style starters do this >with a Bendix spring) when 12V is
supplied thru a starter contactor by the starter >switch.
The starter switch through a small wire supplies juice to the
Starter Contactor on the firewall that supplies the 12V thru a larger wire
to the Contactor (Selenoid) on the the Sky-tec Starter...Right?
A Good Day to you!
Denny
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jpl(at)showpg.mn.org (Joe Larson) |
| Subject: | Wing ribs, one wing or two |
> I am to the point in my laboring where I need to drill my wing ribs to the
> spars. I am trying to understand the instructions as to the procedure they
> recommend for setting up the spacing and then drilling to the spars. While
> the concept is not complicated, I refuse to drill holes in airplane parts
> until I thoroughly understand what I want to end up with. Any thoughts or
> comments on how y'all did it? Van's strong warning in the instructions
> about making sure your rivet hole pattern works for all the ribs has me
> somewhat snake-bitten. It seems so simple. Am I reading to much into this,
> or is there something I'm missing?
Fred Hiatt offered me some advice I'll pass along... This assumes you have
prepunched skins.
You want to make sure that the holes on the skins line up pretty much along
the center of the spar flanges. If you follow Van's measurements blindly,
this may not work out as nicely as you would like.
Therefore, do this --
Location the position of the top skins on the main spar. Clamp them into
place. Then mark on the spar flange where the holes in the skins for the
ribs should go.
At that point, you have a clue where the ribs are supposed to be, so you'll
be far more confident when you start drilling.
Other comments --
As for the drilling pattern from ribs into main spar -- you just want to
make sure you do NOT drill through the sandwich of bars, so your drill
pattern needs to stay clear of these and also give you enough room to
squeeze rivets as required. Remember -- the ribs are held in place by a
LOT of rivets. You have rivets into the spar. More rivets into the spar
angles. And you have a TON of rivets through the skin and into the spar.
Those puppies aren't going anywhere, so don't worry about rivets being a
little close together from rib to spar -- the spacing at that point is
not critical.
As for one wing at a time or two -- you'll get done faster if you can do
both at the same time. Right after you've figured out and completed a step
on one wing, you can repeat it on the other wing. Thus, you won't have to
re-figure it out later. You'll also gain some advantage from setup issues --
setup for a particular step, do the step on BOTH wings, then move on.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
<19971009.204841.4863.0.GASobek(at)juno.com>
<3.0.1.16.19971010103823.2807ce24(at)dtc.net>
<343F7B36.53C3(at)medeserv.com.au>
Mine was sealed in a box that contained all the little brown bags of
hardware....
If
>there is a QB manual, can anyone tell me where it would be packed?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One wing or two? |
I have done it both ways and my opinion is; if you are building a second RV,
then go for the two wings at once, but if it is your first airplane, build the
wings one at a time. It gets too confusing to keep left and right straight,
you will make more mistakes, and worst of all, you will have two of all your
mistakes! Been there, done that, not worth it (for the first airplane).
Another side point; you get bored doing so much of one thing, for example
riveting skins, etc. Doing one wing at a time allows you to have a change in
pace.
My opinion.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544 fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< The starter switch through a small wire supplies juice to the
Starter Contactor on the firewall that supplies the 12V thru a larger wire
to the Contactor (Solenoid) on the the Sky-tec Starter...Right? >>
My understanding is, the starter switch supplies low current 12VDC power to
the starter contactor (relay) on the firewall. It closes momentarily and
supplies high cranking current capable 12VDC power to the starter. This power
causes the starter motor to turn but it would just sit and turn against
nothing were it not for the starter mounted solenoid (not a contactor or
relay, just a mechanical movement) which throws out the pinion gear to engage
the ring gear.
As always, if I am mistaken, please enlighten me.
Just to be precise by definition, a "solenoid" is a component that produces a
pure mechanical action due to electromagnetism as a result of power
application across a coil. A "contactor" is a high capacity electrical
"relay" which uses an internal solenoid as a mechanism with which to close
higher power electrical contacts using lower power.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing ribs, one wing or two |
<< Location the position of the top skins on the main spar. Clamp them into
place. Then mark on the spar flange where the holes in the skins for the
ribs should go. >>
I used a light peice of hardware al angle (1.5x 1.5) that was 10 feet long. I
clamped the two skins to the angle and drilled a hole at the common hole Van
provides at the overlap. Now I drilled a hole at each of the prepunched hole
locations with a 1/16 inch drill. I marked each hole on the top and bottom of
the spar flanges and felt very confident that theprepunched skins would line
up with the center of each rib and they did. I checked these against the
provided measurements and they corresponded very nicely.
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage in jig, SE Fla.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
ALL wet?? For your information Lindolls starter ingages the drive just as
The Contactor applies power. Same unit does both duties..check it out..
Stew. RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< ALL wet?? For your information Lindolls starter ingages the drive just as
The Contactor applies power. Same unit does both duties..check it out..
Stew. RV4
>>
Your information is all correct Stew, but its Landoll starters and
alternators.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
<< Am I missing something, or is there no "quickbuild" manual? If
there is a QB manual, can anyone tell me where it would be packed?
>>
Moe,
I bet the guy who built the airplane has it! Sorry man, just a
little jelous sick hummor. Im sure its in there somewhere.
Ryan Bendure Co
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< For your information Landoll's starter engages the drive just as
The Contactor applies power. Same unit does both duties. >>
Great. Thanks for clearing that up. Then in this case you must run another
small gauge wire from the starter switch to a small terminal on the starter
and the large AWG wire is always hot (with the master on) thru the firewall,
right?
This is completely different from the Sky-tec type then.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing ribs, one wing or two |
Kerrjb(at)aol.com wrote:
> << Location the position of the top skins on the main spar.
> Clamp them into place. Then mark on the spar flange where
> the holes in the skins for the ribs should go. >>
>
> I used a light peice of hardware al angle (1.5x 1.5) that
> was 10 feet long.
[snip]
Not a bad idea... and Vans provides a couple of pieces 10'10" long
too! However, I think that the skins themselves would make just as
good a template as al angle drilled from the skin.
Incidentally, most of these issues are dealt with very well in Will
Cretsinger's notes (indispensible IMHO) <http://www.flash.net/~gila/>.
I've culled some of the wing-jig pros and cons from the list and have
them in the Bunny's Guide
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny2b.htm>
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: One wing or two? |
<< I am getting ready to start the wings. >>
If I had the space, I would probably want to build them both at once.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing ribs, one wing or two |
<< Not a bad idea... and Vans provides a couple of pieces 10'10" long
too! However, I think that the skins themselves would make just as
good a template as al angle drilled from the skin.
>>
Frank,
Thanks for the compliment. I don't think you want to drill the holes in
Van's peice. The 1.5 inchx1.5 inch al angle is very convenient to use to mark
the spars and it also gets used for many other jobs where a long stright edge
is needed.
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
I called Vans, and they said there is no RV-8 QB manual. They don't have
the time to write one. When I unrolled my plans this afternoon, I found
a sheaf of papers that lists specifically what sections of the regular
manual and what steps need to be done for the QB. This is just as good
as a manual IMO, and I was very relived to find it. I thought I was
going to have to pour over the plans to find the sections that were not
completed on the QB.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
RV4131rb wrote:
>
> Moe,
> I bet the guy who built the airplane has it! Sorry man, just a
> little jelous sick hummor. Im sure its in there somewhere.
> Ryan Bendure Co
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brad Bundy" <bundyb(at)infowest.com> |
| Subject: | plenum chamber/ram air |
----------
> From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Sam James plenum chamber
> > You say you have literature on Sam James' plenum chamber. Would you
mind
> > posting a brief description of them on the list?
How about an address where we can contact Sam James.
Also other listers: any info or specs/research on the size and shape of
intake ram induction for fuel injection system with a 2&1/8" I.D. ?
Brad bundyb(at)infowest.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Fuselage and Wing Assembly |
While I am just starting my RV-8 fuselage, I am wondering about how long it
takes from the time you take the completed fuse and wings to the airport,
assemble them and get ready to fly? Is it possible to have everything done on
the fuse and wings, etc, (including paint), so that all you have to do is hook
up the fuel lines, ailerons and flap controls, electrical into the wing for
strobes and landing lites, and install the wing fairings? Am I forgetting
something? I am not allowed to paint in my hangar(state regs), so thought I
would take the fuse and wings to an automotive paint shop and have them
painted before assembly. I know there are disadvantages to this, but I think
if I am careful it will work, as around here they want $5k+ for aircraft paint
jobs. Anybody done this?
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544 Starting fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: One wing or two? |
>
M Wentzell)
>
> I am getting ready to start the wings. Any comments on building one at a
>time or both at once?
> wntzl(at)execpc.com
> RV6 - finishing the rudder
>
>
David,
I'm about 75% done my wings and am very happy I decided to build both at
the same time. It seems to save time and allow you to work in assembly
line fashion. The only drawback I've heard is if you have a space problem
and that the possiblity exists you can make two mistakes instead of one.
Bill Pagan
-8A wings (both)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Companies, was Cylinders for sale |
Im looking at the IO360 200HP and Prop as we speak!!!
Straight up with Panther in trail, ADIOS MAMA!!!
LKDxWannabee
floor with a angle bracket
between the two bolts over the top of the battery and secured with lock
washers and nuts.
I then wired a simple blade switch into the ground so I could deactivate
the electrical starting system (only) at the battery.
I had an FAA inspector look it over and it was approved as installed
as a certified installation for that aircraft.
Cool!!!!
LKDx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Monitors |
JP,
You might check the archives for a comparison post I made some time
ago. I ended up gettin an EIS system. Have not yet flown it.
On 3 May 98 at 11:09, Jim Moore wrote:
> Date: Sun, 3 May 1998 11:09:03 -0400
> From: Jim Moore <76147.3367(at)compuserve.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Engine Monitors
> To: "INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com"
> Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Can anyone compare two engine monitors that I'm considering?
> One is the EIS from Grand Rapids Technologies in Mich. It looks
> like a good one and is quite inexpensive The other one is the
> MicroMonitor from Rocky Mountain Instrument. It also looks very nice
> but is more expensive. They both seem to have about the same
> features. Any input on performance and installation would be helpful
>
> Thanks,
> JP Moore
> RV8 Finish Kit
> Co
>
>
>
>
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
e that it's NOT leaking past the rings, but crankcase pressure
is just a necessary evil of an internal combustion engine. Thus the need
for a breather....
I can offer this suggestion from the automotive industry. When an engine
runs, carbon is constantly being deposited in the combustion chamber. The
spark plugs are no exception. When you turn the spark plugs to remove them
for said compression test, the carbon that has been deposited around the
edge of the plug flakes off. These carbon flakes can easily get caught
between a valve and a seat and get stuck there. The low speed cranking
associated with a compression test is not enough to dislodge them sometimes,
resulting in a poor valve to seat seal and thus low compression. When I am
tasked to perform a compression test on ANY engine, I will ALWAYS loosen the
plugs 1 1/2 to 2 turns and then put the wires back on and run the engine for
a minute or two. This time includes several snap accelerations to get the
intake and exhaust flow up for an instant to clear the carbon out. Then
pull the plugs and procede like normal.
FWIW....
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Wing Spars finally done.....
Onto the endless sea of ribs.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sky tech starter |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
I will try to clear up a little confusion here. The Sky Tech starter has
a solenoid/contactor that can do both jobs. It can be hooked up two ways:
one- the heavy #2 cable is run from the starter contactor to the large
terminal on the motor, a small jumper is run from there to the solenoid.
When the starter is engaged, the big terminal becomes hot, this then
engages the solenoid which pushes out the pinion gear and at the same
time closes the internal contactor to complete the circuit to the motor.
Option two-If you choose to eliminate the starter contactor, the #2 cable
is run directly from the master contactor to the starter. this then is
hot all the time that the master is on. No jumper in this case. A small
wire is run from the start switch to the solenoid/contactor terminal.
Same results when the start switch is pushed.
Hope this helps
Bill, RV4, N66WD, FL west coast
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> |
I'm at the point of installing the tailwheel weldment. The best alignment
technique I can think of is eyeballing the alignment between the tailwheel
spring and a string run down the centerline. That MAY take care of the
alignment along the centerline. Are there any better techniques?
After that, how do I get it aligned vertically (so the tailwheel doesn't have
a left or right tilt)?
Thanks,
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Miller <rgmiller(at)acadiacom.net> |
Anyone have any dealings with the Brown Tool Co -- either good or bad?
I sent an angle drill for repair around Thanksgiving and haven't gotten
it back yet.
Robert Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Yeller Pages Update (rev 5 May 98) |
The latest, and so far greatest update to Gary VanRemortel's RV Builders'
Yeller Pages is available at http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm.
Enjoy, and be sure to tell Gary thanks.
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: plenum chamber/ram air |
<< How about an address where we can contact Sam James. >>
This kind of repetitive stuff is all in the Yeller Pages at:
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
The 5/5/98 revision is current.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Close, Jim (Toronto)" <Jim.Close.Toronto(at)alliedsignal.com> |
Mount you gascolator on the fuselage at the wing root and you will avoid
the potential risk associated with fuel leaks near the engine.
----------
From: MICHAEL
Subject: RV-List: gascalator
Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 2:53PM
A friend was showing me in his glasair manual (well, he's not a
real good friend!) where it says gascolators are not made to be
pressurized, as with an inline electric fuel pump between it and
the fuel tank. It said it is not accepted practice to install
them after a fuel pump, as they are capable of leaking and
spraying fuel into the engine compartment or on the hot exhaust.
It recommended either building a metal shroud around it, incase
it does leak, to provide a safe path for the fuel to exit the
cowling, or replumbing it so it is being sucked through, not
pressurized. It is a good point, and something to think about.
Also, does anyone know of a rv fly in in Alabama sometime soon?
I heard it at the airport while ago but, no one knew for sure.
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky tech starter |
> A small wire is run from the start switch to the solenoid/contactor
Take care, all is not as it seems.
Bob Nuckolls has an illustration (not sure if it is available at his
site, he refers to it as Fig 6_3 for reference) which describes in
detail the typical wiring for this solenoid. I say 'Typical' because
am not certain if this is true of Sky-Tec starters.
The diagram shows two windings in this solonoid coil, one to ground,
and the second to the motor. The second winding will be shorted as the
contactor points close after the armature/pinion pulls in. I believe
this second winding provides additional pull in force.
The result is that the pull in current alone exceeds 35 Amps! This is
enough current to total a humble panel start switch if it is wired
directly.
Confusing eh!
Doug Gray
RV-6 Elevators
Sydney Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< < For your information Landoll's starter engages the drive just as
The Contactor applies power. Same unit does both duties. >>
Great. Thanks for clearing that up. Then in this case you must run another
small gauge wire from the starter switch to a small terminal on the starter
and the large AWG wire is always hot (with the master on) thru the firewall,
right?
This is completely different from the Sky-tec type then.
-GV
>>
Well, not exactly. The Sky-tec unit also has that small wire. It is connected
to the large wire terminal. Disconnect the small wire form that large lug, and
you can use it as the starter engage wire.
In other words, the two can be used exactly the same, either with or without a
separate starter soleniod.
BTW- I have a new Sky-tec to fit the 149 tooth flywheel here- $375 plus
shipping.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 with 0-360 |
Does anyone know if anyone ever built an RV-3 with an 0-360?? Jim Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky tech starter |
<19980507.225641.12150.0.rvpilot(at)juno.com>
<3553D4BD.7EC9(at)hlos.com.au>
>
>> A small wire is run from the start switch to the solenoid/contactor
>
>Take care, all is not as it seems.
>
>Bob Nuckolls has an illustration (not sure if it is available at his
>site, he refers to it as Fig 6_3 for reference) which describes in
>detail the typical wiring for this solenoid. I say 'Typical' because
>am not certain if this is true of Sky-Tec starters.
>
>The diagram shows two windings in this solonoid coil, one to ground,
>and the second to the motor. The second winding will be shorted as the
>contactor points close after the armature/pinion pulls in. I believe
>this second winding provides additional pull in force.
>
>The result is that the pull in current alone exceeds 35 Amps! This is
>enough current to total a humble panel start switch if it is wired
>directly.
>
>Confusing eh!
>
>Doug Gray
>RV-6 Elevators
>Sydney Oz
The referenced figure was from an issue of HotFlashes from the
'Connection about 6 years ago. I'm taking that figure and
updating the text that goes with it. Will announce the availability
of the data soon . . . perhaps yet today. I worked on the article
last night and it's about done.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sky tech starter |
>
>
><< I will try to clear up a little confusion here. The Sky Tech starter has
> a solenoid/contactor that can do both jobs. It can be hooked up two ways: >>
>
>"I see", said the blind man.
>
>-GV
All will be revealed to you shortly . . . see my
reply elsewhere . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
Folks,
Need your help in figuring out a problem. I have an 0-360-A1A 180
hp. RV6A wood prop, with a brand new skytech starter, and a brand new
Concorde RG25XC battery. I'm having trouble starting the airplane, I'm
experienceing kickback at the intial starting phase. This happened the
other day when it was 70 degrees outside. I have that wonderful keyed
ignition switch Vans sells. Alternator puts out 13.9 volts. and I do
not have a harmonic dampner. The battery is usually indicating around
12.7 volts on the RMI when engaging the master switch. I'm not
experiencing this problem when restarting the airplane after a flight,
as long as the restart is conducted within an hour of shut down. Any
ideas? Please respond soon if possible. I'm interested in what mr.
Knuckels has to say. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
From: Department of Encouragement
Re: THEY are really gonna love your airplane
OK, I like to land places and, well, goof with people. But I really don't
goof with them. I just tell them the truth and it, well, you can see in
their faces, they aren't sure if you are leveling with them. Here:
I landed somewhere in west Texas, a while ago, and, even though it was a
Tuesday, there were plenty of folks hanging around watching things happen at
the airport. I accidently made one of the best landings I had made in a
while and taxied off the runway over to the pumps. Here come four guys, out
to see what the heck THIS was. One was pretty excited.
'I watched you come in. Nice landing. Pardon my ignorance, but, what is
this?' "RV-4." Blank look. "Experimental." Blanker look. "Homebuilt. Pounded
it together in the garage." 'YOU built this?' "You bet. You can build one
too. So, now, when you gonna order yours?" 'Whoo, I don't know. I just flew
today for the first time in 20 years. And now I guess I'm gonna have to have
SOMETHING...but, man. Where'd you come in from?' "Denver." 'Denver City?'
"No. Denver, Colorado." 'Colorado? When'd you leave?' "Two this afternoon."
'Two. Two? This afterNOON?' "Yeah. Mighta been five after." 'How fast does
this thing GO?' "GPS was saying 165 knots, 'bout average." 'Knots? And you
BUILT this? The whole thing?' "Yup, mostly."
I was managing to dribble some fuel in her by now and they were making sure
everything was going OK. Topped off at 24.6 gallons. 'Where'd you stop on
the way?' "Didn't." 'Ydidn't stop? How much fuel this thing hold?' "Thirty
two U.S. gallons." 'What are you burning an hour?' "Oh, lessee here: took 2
hours and a little under 45 minutes. That'd make it, what, about 8.8." 'You
were doing 165 knots and were burning 8.8 gallons and hour?' "Yeah, I guess,
between 165 and 170, something like that. Sorry."
Yeah, that's the type of goofing with people I like; nothing gets them like
the truth. I have one of the best airplanes a person can have (that I built
myself), going cross-country like a puma in heat and they are plugging
along, well, they are probably burning about 8.8 in their Cessnas, but they
AIN'T doing it at 165-170 knots. How much more fun can this get? I don't
even have 60 hours yet!!
So: how many people have built their own airplane? Not many. And those that
haven't yet are going to think yours is pretty cool. Maybe even inspire them
to build one of their own.
Keep building; they are gonna love your airplane.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Beyond the Boundries
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Graf <markgraf(at)sprintmail.com> |
> >trying to find a way of stopping the battery from moving up and down inside
> >the box.
> >Karl Ahamer RV6AQ just about to beginn wiring.
>
> when we STC'd the B&C batteries into certified singles,
> simple painted plywood spacers were used to take up the
> slack where the B&C battery was smaller than the battery
> we were replacing.
>
> Bob . . .
>
We placed a tennis ball between the case and the battery, holds it well,
adds very little weight.
Mark Graf
N71CG RV-6 Denver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
<< Need your help in figuring out a problem. I have an 0-360-A1A 180
hp. RV6A wood prop, with a brand new skytech starter, and a brand new
Concorde RG25XC battery. I'm having trouble starting the airplane, I'm
experienceing kickback at the intial starting phase. >>
Hmmmmmm..... This usually means that the non-impluse mag is trying to fire.
You should check to be sure you have the switch wired correctly, and that the
switch is actually working correctly.I will add that this may be one of those
cases where the two (mag) toggles have a bit of an advantage- the wiring is
easier, and trouble-shooting is also easier.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Seals and radio hash |
I am somewhat reluctant to convey this since I am not sure of the value to
y'all on the list, and the space is growing...but check it out for
yourself. May help.
Last night, I took off in trail of my buddy, set up a climb at full bore,
when suddenly all hell broke loose in the headphones ! I switched freq.
turned volume right down..no change.. throttle back a bit and hash
stops...I call Ted saying I am 1 mile 6 o'clock and wham, right wing drops
hard, ..I have hit his wake.
I push in throttle to move aside and hellish radio noise comes
back....throttle back and it stopped....I finally saw that the intercom was
left on ( I just installed and played with it on ground) and the other
headset was hanging on the sidewall picking up the loud thing in front...my
radio was OK after all, but when you are busy, it is hard to diagnose. I
will watch that from now on !!
Following this, we formed up and compared numbers on his GPS etc..
We set a course and altitude and formed up close..what great fun.. the RV
looks wonderful and when you see the prop disc of the other a/c in the
setting sun, it makes for a photo shot to treasure. Ted sure is good for
formating as he gives me the easy part (lead), and he tucks in and I can
see his mustache !
His airforce days show in his skill. We turn together down over the mud
flats and he calls out the seals that gather there regularly in the
evening.
Soon a third RV calls, but he is too far away to join up. We start a long
turn to home and , Wham, I hit that wake again ! We split up, I follow car
headlights and gas stations to read what road I am on and I cannot see any
strobes for haze. We land at dusk and soon 3 RVs taxi in, shut down and get
put away. The smell and warmth of the engines in the cool night, their
ticking sounds, a fitting and welcome finale to a great RV
evening.........Enjoy..your turn will come..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Will Crestinger's notes |
<19980507.225641.12150.0.rvpilot(at)juno.com>
<3553D4BD.7EC9(at)hlos.com.au> <3.0.1.16.19980508090534.2e1f1596(at)dtc.net>
Can anyone please send me the link to Will Crestinger's Wing notes? I had the address,
but I seem to have lost it, and I'm having a rough time finding it again. Nobody
seems
to have a link for them!
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Mount |
Kyle,
Use a plumb bob along the side of the tire With the fuselage level
across the longerons.
Stew. 4vr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
What is your timing set at? Also make sure you ar starting on the left mag
only. The one with the impulse coupling. Watch it because you can wipe
out
your ring gear and believe it or not the distributor gears in the
mags...
Stew, RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
<< From: Department of Encouragement
Re: THEY are really gonna love your airplane
OK, I like to land places and, well, goof with people. >>
Mike:
You seem to have the knack for describing the reaction (of the pilot and
others) to these crazy home-made airplanes we fly. Keep 'em coming!
Check Six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< The Sky-tec unit also has that small wire. It is connected
to the large wire terminal. Disconnect the small wire from that large lug,
and
you can use it as the starter engage wire.
In other words, the two can be used exactly the same, either with or without
a
separate starter solenoid. >>
Mark-
I took the cowling off today and examined my Sky-tec starter more closely and
I now see what you mean. I didn't realize that the starter motor current got
enabled by a set of contacts only as the solenoid completely throws the pinion
gear out. This apparently is to ensure that the motor doesn't start spinning
until the pinion has engaged the ring gear.
I originally thought that the motor current and the solenoid were in parallel.
Now it makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
How many people have used this feature to eliminate the firewall mounted
remote starter contactor? Are there any obvious drawbacks?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com> |
<< I have an 0-360-A1A 180
hp. RV6A wood prop, with a brand new skytech starter, and a brand new
Concorde RG25XC battery. I'm having trouble starting the airplane, I'm
experienceing kickback at the intial starting phase. >>
Hmmmmmm..... This usually means that the non-impluse mag is trying to fire.
You should check to be sure you have the switch wired correctly, and that the
switch is actually working correctly. >>
I'm assuming that you are using the standard two mag ignition. There is a
short metal strap (jumper) that belongs on the ignition/starter switch between
the R terminal and a GND terminal (the one closest to and in the same plane
with the R terminal). This little metal strap is provided with the switch,
but if you have lost it, just make an 18 AWG wire jumper with two #6 lugs.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
20-20 hind sight dept.:
If all is OK with wiring and switching and timing etc etc, you may have a
stuck impulse coupling. This would act exactly like the wrong mag was trying
to light the fire.... I recall an AD on these babies a while back.
Maybe one of the A&P's online can (please) explain the correct way to time an
impulse mag- I think you have to be sure the coupling has snapped before doing
the timing, or you wind up with a very different than recommended timing
setting. I know it sure wouldn't hurt me to have a copy of the correct
procedure printed out...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel Mount |
<< Kyle,
Use a plumb bob along the side of the tire With the fuselage level
across the longerons.
Stew. 4vr >>
AND! make sure the tailwheel is in the straight ahead position. We found also
that if you mount the thing too high (close to the top longeron) at the #12
blkhd, you stand a fair chance of having the spring drag on the rudder bottom!
Just when I thought I had made every concievable mistake, Mr Murphy reminds
me....
This came up when we put an -8 tail on a Rocket.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>
>Folks,
>
> Need your help in figuring out a problem. I have an 0-360-A1A 180
>hp. RV6A wood prop, with a brand new skytech starter, and a brand new
>Concorde RG25XC battery. I'm having trouble starting the airplane, I'm
>experienceing kickback at the intial starting phase. This happened the
>other day when it was 70 degrees outside. I have that wonderful keyed
>ignition switch Vans sells. Alternator puts out 13.9 volts. and I do
>not have a harmonic dampner. The battery is usually indicating around
>12.7 volts on the RMI when engaging the master switch. I'm not
>experiencing this problem when restarting the airplane after a flight,
>as long as the restart is conducted within an hour of shut down. Any
>ideas? Please respond soon if possible. I'm interested in what mr.
>Knuckels has to say. Thanks.
Have you checked to see if the jumper that kills the right
mag during cranking has been installed? With a lightweight
starter and hot battery, cranking rpms are considerably higher
and you may be getting a spark from the right mag hot enough
to give you an advanced spark. I've put a copy of the ignition
switch wiring up on our website at:
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/magswtch.pdf>
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Kick back during starting |
In order to preclude the non-impulse mag from firing and possibly
kicking the engine backwards during an unsuccessful starting attempt, I
put a toggle switch on the panel near the key-start switch which simply
grounds out the non-impulse starter. When the engine catches I flip the
switch and activate the non-impulse starter. As one responder mentioned,
it is entirely possible to wipe out the ring gear and the starter if the
non-impulse mag fires at an inoportune time. Simple, safe, cheap.
RV-6A Flying
Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
<< How many people have used this feature to eliminate the firewall mounted
remote starter contactor? Are there any obvious drawbacks?
-GV
>>
Mr G:
I have no idea if anyone has snapped to the fact this can be done! The most
obvious drawback to me is that the large wire is 'hot' anytime the master is
engaged. But, you would need such a wire anyway (a #8 or 10 size) connecting
the alt to the buss or the battery. Another lister explained that the start
switch would have to handle 35 amps- this sounds like a lot of amps to
energize a solenoid. You could certainly eliminate the second starter
soleniod, saving a few bucks and a small amount of wiring hassle...
The RV-4 I built has just such a setup, and it still works after 850 hrs.
'Electric Bob' Nuckolls is really the right person to examine the failure mode
here... didja know he helped Moses wire the Ark? ;-) Talk about qualified! And
Sam James helped build it- I'm sure you didn't know the Ark was fiberglass.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | 0-360 Sensenich? |
Does anybody have any performance comparisons or pilot reports to offer
for Sensenich's new 0-360 metal prop.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver <A20driver(at)aol.com> |
Had the same prob with the 160hp Lym. in my 4..Could find nothing wrong in the
ign or wiring..Solved the prob by starting in full idle after regular priming
plus 2-4 carb shots depending on day temp...Jim Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starter contactors |
The updated article I promised is available at:
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf>
The article has been spell checked but not tightly proofed . . .
I'd welcome notification of any goofs . . .
>I have no idea if anyone has snapped to the fact this can be done! The most
>obvious drawback to me is that the large wire is 'hot' anytime the master is
>engaged.
Which is no different than having an "always hot" wire on a starter
contactor just a few inches away on the firewall . . .
> But, you would need such a wire anyway (a #8 or 10 size) connecting
>the alt to the buss or the battery.
In an RV the main bus feed can come from the downstream side of
the battery contactor inside the cockpit. The alternator b-lead
can be fused and tied right to the hot side of the starter
contactor . . . just inches away.
> . . . . Another lister explained that the start
>switch would have to handle 35 amps- this sounds like a lot of amps to
>energize a solenoid. You could certainly eliminate the second starter
>soleniod, saving a few bucks and a small amount of wiring hassle...
True . . I have a number of builders who've elected to go this
route and chose to observe reservations in article referenced
above.
>'Electric Bob' Nuckolls is really the right person to examine the failure
mode
>here... didja know he helped Moses wire the Ark? ;-) Talk about qualified!
And
>Sam James helped build it- I'm sure you didn't know the Ark was fiberglass.
That's another one of those urban legends . . . we OFFERED to do the
wiring but the CALWWU (Candle and Lamp Wick Weavers Union) raised
a fuss and got the specs for the Ark rewritten. Got shot down in the
final round of proposals when the CALWWU pointed out that with 40
days and nights of rain, our solar panels were kaput. If push
came to shove, livestock could be boiled down for lamp grease. I'm
told that several species became extinct during the voyage but
the ensuing coverup prevented the SPCA from taking action.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Just a little venting |
Hello fellow RVers:
I am once again turning to the group that understands me best to
vent some frustration. Ever since I have started building my 6A,
friends and even family all seem to have the same reaction. "You mean
that *YOU* are building a *HOMEMADE* airplane???!!!! Whoa-Nellie! You
won't catch me in *that* thing!! Are you *NUTS*???"
Why in the heck do people have that kind of attitude?? Where does
it come from? I try not to take it personal, as if they are concerned
that *I* in particular am actually building an airplane, but all this
doubt and alarm is really starting to get to me. Once I point out that
I will know *every* rivet etc. in this craft, and how the fleet of
certified aircraft is getting older as we speak, and the comparative
safety of homebuilts vs certified airplanes, they chill out a little,
but I sense that they are still convinced that I am building some sort
of flying coffin. Geeze!!! Give me a break!
I guess that in a way, all this lack of support is helping to fuel
the fire so to speak. I realize that I am building this airplane for
*me*, but this is just a bit of motivation to build the best 6A that I
can just to show everyone a thing or two. As the saying goes, he who
laughs last, laughs best!
Ok, there. I feel better now. Time to go work on that "homemade"
airplane of mine. Now where did I put that baling wire and super-glue
anyway?? And why do I have so many left-over parts??? Oh well, I don't
suppose it matters. ;^)
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A no. 25171 left elevator
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
A
> Need your help in figuring out a problem. I have an 0-360-A1A 180
>hp. RV6A wood prop, with a brand new skytech starter, and a brand new
>Concorde RG25XC battery. I'm having trouble starting the airplane, I'm
>experienceing kickback at the intial starting phase.
I had this same problem with my RV4 same engine. I had a Prestolite starter
and each time it kicked back it sheared a half moon key in the starter, not
expensive but embarassing.
I detiremined that the problem was with the switch. In the start position
the right mag is shorted out as it does not have an impulse coupling. In my
case either the switch was bad or I released the switch from the start
position too soon. If released to the `both position at the wrong time the
right mag will cause the prop to kick back.
My solution was to get rid of the key switch. I then went with two toggle
switche for the mags and a push to start button for the starter, end of
problems. Not only is this a lot easier to wire it gets rid of a single
point failure, and is cheaper to boot!
I have wired my next plane the same way. My old citabria was done this way
and I encourage you to use this simple system
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT 8127 <PILOT8127(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 with 0-360 |
Holy Cow Jim !
A O-360 ? I have an O-320 160 hp. in my RV-3 and it cruises WAY UP in the
yellow.......I pull it back to 20 "mp. and 2250 rpms. just to keep in the
green arc.
Gary and N5AJ
in Brazil, Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
All:
I experienced a trim runaway yeasterday and thought it would be helpful to
pass my experiences on to others.
I have electric elevator trim. Upon leveling out after climbout yesterday,
I blipped the switch to get a little DOWN trim, but I got UP trim instead,
and the trim kept going UP and UP and UP. Fortunately, I anticipated this
scenario during building:
1. The Trim circuit breaker is a pullable breaker and is located separately
from the other breakers in a spot that I can quickly locate in my
peripheral vision and pull it.
2. I use the Matronics trim governor and have the speed set pretty slow (It
takes maybe 10-15 seconds to go from neutral to the up or down limit).
Thus I was able to pull the breaker before it went too far. After landing,
I traced the fault to a pinched wire in the pilot's stick. When I
installed the stick grip, one of the trim wires became wedged between the
stick and the grip.
After repairing the fault, I went out today and did a little experiment.
At 120 mph, I put in full UP trim, and found that I had no problems holding
the airplane straight and level. By using both hands on the stick, I could
have flown indefinitely that way. At 90 mph, I could quite comfortably fly
with full up trim and one hand on the stick holding the airplane straight
and level.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
> Why in the heck do people have that kind of attitude?? Where does
> it come from? I try not to take it personal, as if they are concerned
> that *I* in particular am actually building an airplane, but all this
> doubt and alarm is really starting to get to me.
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A no. 25171 left elevator
> Peshtigo, WI
Jeff,
When I was building my plane, the guys at work thought it was the funniest
thing they ever heard of. They made jokes about it and pointed out that if per
chance I did get it built, I would most assuredly kill myself or even worse
some
innocent bystander.
Have you ever noticed that people will break their necks getting to you to
tell you bad news. Also if they see you are happy, chances are they'll tell
you something to try and worry you. That's human nature. Everyone wants
to feel better about himself and be happier than the next guy. If they see that
you are confident about yourself and you're ability to build an airplane they
see
that as a threat to their confidence and ability.
My wife said it best. All people have dreams, but there are few that
realize
their dreams. And if you're one of the people that never accomplishes his
dream,
how would you feel about a person babbling all the time about building and
flying his own airplane to places most people will never see.
The guys at work don't make fun of me anymore. Usually they ask where
I'm flying to this weekend. After six years of flying my RV, they've quit
waiting
for me to crash and burn. I'm not a hero, not a legend, not ultra smart, but in
a factory with 2400 people, guess who's name is mentioned when it comes
to flying. The same is going to happen for you. Alot of people will tell you
they
can build an airplane but there's relatively few of us that do.
The people that gave me support during my building process are my closest
friends. The people that were quick to criticizes me for such a foolhardy waste
of good money and time are called acquaintances.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Metal Fuselage Jig |
| From: | rvsixer(at)Juno.com (michael d hilger) |
I went to the MN RV Forum in Red Wing on May 2 and saw a
very nice metal fuselage jig. I am past that point so I didn't get any
info. Now a friend is interested in one. Would someone please e-mail me
the name/address/phone so I can put this guy onto him? Off the List, of
course, at: rvsixer(at)juno.com
Mike Hilger
RV-6, N207AM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
i.net>
> Ok, there. I feel better now. Time to go work on that "homemade"
>airplane of mine. Now where did I put that baling wire and super-glue
>anyway?? And why do I have so many left-over parts??? Oh well, I don't
>suppose it matters. ;^)
Jeff,
In a tad over 55 years of plodding on this earth I've come to
understand a basic fact of nature. You cannot deny or ignore
the effects of the "bell curve." In every population of things
you will find a distribution of characteristics that generally
fall some place on a curve. Therefore, one must EXPECT certain
individuals to take their pre-ordained places and sadly enough,
there are slots at the bottom that MUST be occupied.
The next time someone unloads their ignorance on you with
so much enthusiasm, you should smile, shake your head and
offer your condolances. When they ask why YOU feel sorry for
THEM, you can offer your regrets that they were the one
chosen to fulfill one of nature's assigned tasks at the
bottom of the curve for understanding.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
>I detiremined that the problem was with the switch. In the start position
>the right mag is shorted out as it does not have an impulse coupling. In my
>case either the switch was bad or I released the switch from the start
>position too soon. If released to the `both position at the wrong time the
>right mag will cause the prop to kick back.
>
>My solution was to get rid of the key switch. I then went with two toggle
>switche for the mags and a push to start button for the starter, end of
>problems. Not only is this a lot easier to wire it gets rid of a single
>point failure, and is cheaper to boot!
>
>I have wired my next plane the same way. My old citabria was done this way
>and I encourage you to use this simple system
Bless you my son :-) I too think the world would be a better place
if the off-l-r-both-start keyswitch were to disappear off the face
of the earth. But at the risk of blaspheming my own teachings, there
is an option of installing a pushbutton to control the starter and
remembering to start on right mag only. This avoids major surgury
to the panel . .. the pushbutton can be on a bracket just out of
sight behind the panel.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Brown Tool Co. |
seems odd. i've been pleased with my purchases. good tools at reasonable prices.
Brian Eckstein
----------
>
>
> Anyone have any dealings with the Brown Tool Co -- either good or bad?
> I sent an angle drill for repair around Thanksgiving and haven't gotten
> it back yet.
>
> Robert Miller
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: trim runaway |
>After repairing the fault, I went out today and did a little experiment.
>At 120 mph, I put in full UP trim, and found that I had no problems holding
>the airplane straight and level. By using both hands on the stick, I could
>have flown indefinitely that way. At 90 mph, I could quite comfortably fly
>with full up trim and one hand on the stick holding the airplane straight
>and level.
How about full DOWN? They can crap either direction. It's GOOD that you've
done the experiment and know what to expect. There's an awful lot of folk
flying airplanes with TOO much trim authority . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
We've all taken up people for the first time that are a bit nervous. I've found
that a couple things help. First, I tell them that airplanes don't fall out
of the sky for no reason. And then I talk a bit about vfr pilot in ifr and
hot dogs. Second people seem more comfortable when I tell them that the little
bumps they feel are trivial to the airframe and that they would pass out from
g forces before the airframe of the airplane they are in would fail and that
regular maintenance inspections guarentees that. A little education can help
alot.
Brian Eckstein
----------
>
>
> >Ever since I have started building my 6A,
> >friends and even family all seem to have the same reaction. "You mean
> >that *YOU* are building a *HOMEMADE* airplane???!!!! Whoa-Nellie! You
> >won't catch me in *that* thing!! Are you *NUTS*???"...
>
> I get that reaction all the time. My boss once joked that he wanted to know
> when my first flight would be so he could arrange for my replacement. My
> wife tells me that the most frequent question she gets is "Are you going to
> fly in it?".
>
> unfortunately, it is a pretty good barometer of what the public knows and
> understands about airplanes.
>
> It was actually easy to convince my relatives. All I did was have them
> watch Van's RV Story video. To the rest, I mention that all those
> passengers who got on that fateful ValueJet flight were unaware that the
> airplane was full of wiring who's insulation turns to a poisonous gas when
> burned, and that MY airplane is built to a higher standard than that.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
> Flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Fuselage and Wing Assembly |
I did just what you describe with my RV 6A. I etched with acid, then
sprayed on the alodyning solution in my driveway. Rinsed it off carefully
(the lawn has survived) then I wheeled the fuselage down the road to an
autobody shop, where they did a great job. Next the wings and fuselage were
taken 10 miles to the airport on a flat trailer, with lots of padding. I
have a wing rack.
The next stage, the final putting on of the wings I found the most
frustrating job. There are 32 bolts as I recall. Most are different
lengths. A lot of the nuts can't be seen, let alone reached, and you are
curled up inside the fuselage. Between the ribs, there is no space to turn
a wrench - it took me two days of very frustrating work. Once a nut was
torqued, there were too many, or too few, threads showing, so off it came,
and another washer, or bolt, installed.
One hint that was given too late to help me, was to get some compressed
air, and use an impact wrench. It will fit down between the ribs and will
zip the nuts on or off ten times faster, and with a hundred times less
frustration.
To answer your question, I think it was total of four long days work, for
the final, on-field assembly.
The next stage was the final inspection, I had two minor fixes, then a four
week wait for the pieces of paper to get on the right persons desk, while
he was not on holiday. Then seven days for the Canadian mail to deliver
them 20 miles. If this system had been in place a hundred years ago, the
Wright Brothers would still be waiting for approval.
However, after the first flight, all was forgiven, and now those bitter
memories have dimmed.
The good news for you is, the best is still to come.
John Cocker RV 6A 130 hours.
Newmarket Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Speaking of Trim... |
Has anyone used Mr Gretz's alternative electric trim mounting kit? I'd
be interested in hearing any comments as I'm considering this system.
The trim servo is mounted in the rear of the fuselage as opposed to in
the elevator, saving some weight in the elevator balance. Please reply
off list.
Also, should I be concerned about saving too much weight in the tail?
I'm building an 8, with a C/S IO-360 200hp. I'm trying to save weight
every chance I get, but should I worry about making it too nose heavy?
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles T. Brietigam" <brietig(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 with 0-360 |
A20driver wrote:
>
> Does anyone know if anyone ever built an RV-3 with an 0-360?? Jim Brown
>
Of course, John Harmon's Rocket I and Gary Banducci, another RV-3 from
Bakersfield, had an IO-360. You can bet the batteries were back in the tail!!
Chuck Brietigam
RV-3 on its way to the paint shop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David and Beth Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
i.net>
Why in the heck do people have that kind of attitude?? Where does
>it come from?
Jeff,
Everyone who streches the envelope experiences what you have, jealousy and
misunderstanding. Plus there are those who know it all already and like to
do their little "Superior Dance" just to prove it.
Think of it this way, what percentage of the population actually flies?
Less than two or three percent maybe? Out of that, what percentage have
built a plane? Maybe four or five percent tops! Don't even expect
non-pilots to understand our ambitions, much less the spam can crowd. Like
someone else said (was it Bob), just pitty them for they will never
experience the satisfaction and exuberance that we will and do!
Dave
RV-6A, Flying (But never enough!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brown Tool Co. |
My son is building the wings for "our" RV 6. He ordered a rivet fan
from browns. It does not do a straight line with the rivet pattern when
extended. I got mine at the last Sun and Fun from ATS or something like
that, Mine does put all rivet holes in a straight line. I think Brown
will exchange it but he hasn't sent it in yet. In the phone call to them
they seemed to think they were all the same and nothing was wrong. We'll
see.
Phil
CUALL at Pinckneyville, Illinois flyin....
Robert Miller wrote:
>
> Anyone have any dealings with the Brown Tool Co -- either good or bad?
>
> I sent an angle drill for repair around Thanksgiving and haven't
> gotten
> it back yet.
>
> Robert Miller
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Will Crestinger's notes |
<19980507.225641.12150.0.rvpilot(at)juno.com>
<3553D4BD.7EC9(at)hlos.com.au>
<3.0.1.16.19980508090534.2e1f1596(at)dtc.net>
RV builders (and Moe),
Will's notes are on my web site, along with the Mil Spec for
Riveting. It's at:
http://www.flash.net/~gila
... many thanks to Will for creating the notes...
Gil (just my web space) Alexander
RV6A, #20701 ... finishing kit, cleaning up little tail items...
>
>Can anyone please send me the link to Will Crestinger's Wing notes? I had
the address,
>but I seem to have lost it, and I'm having a rough time finding it again.
Nobody seems
>to have a link for them!
>
>--
>Moe Colontonio
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 with 0-360 |
<< Subj: RV-List: Re: RV-3 with 0-360
Date: 98-05-08 10:34:44 EDT
From: A20driver(at)aol.com (A20driver)
Does anyone know if anyone ever built an RV-3 with an 0-360?? Jim Brown
>>
It's not if, but how many.
The original Harmon Rocket is an RV-3 derivative with a 230 hp Lyc. 360
engine.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A engine (243 cu.in.)
Thousand Oaks, Ca.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Trim... |
Moe,
You don't really need the Gretz kit .... this is a posting from the
archive from Mar 1997 ... read the update portion after the posting ...
**** Mar 97 Posting ******
Guys,
.... there is another way that I think is a little cleaner and
certainly cheaper. The trouble with a throttle cable is it's length (and
it's $50 price), which ends up putting the servo in some way inaccessible
place in the aft fuselage with no good mounting surface handy. A much
shorter cable would put the servo on the flat F-614 deck under the tail
surfaces, where it would be accessible by removing the F-694B fiberglass
fairing. I was ready to special order a shorter cable, and then a catalog
arrived!
Airparts Inc., Kansas City 800-800-3229 (the ads with the lady in
the roll of aluminum ..:^) have surplus 24 inch push-pull cables on sale
for $4.20 each. These have 10-32 threaded, swivels at both ends and a
threaded mount at one end that will thread into Vans WD-415 weldment.
Sounded close to what I wanted. I bought one (well actually two, since
they have a $10 minimum order ..:^) They do not have a vinyl jacket like
Vans cables, but a couple of layers of 3/8 diameter heat shrink tubing gave
me a nice looking plastic jacket.
I mounted mine as shown in the plans on the elevator, and routed
the new TRIM cable basically as shown on the plans, but through the center
lightening hole in the HS-405 rib ibnstead of the forward one. This will
make the location of the servo closer to the centerline for easier access.
The 5/8 hole in the main horizontal stab. spar will now be 3.5 inches out
from the centerline. The moving portion will penetrate this hole, so I
will fabricate an angle bracket riveted to HS-405 and use a 1/4 inch Adel
clamp to solidly anchor the forward end of the TRIM cable. A mounting
plate needs to be fabricated to hold the servo about 1 inch (whatever
measurement it takes to keep the TRIM cable in a flat, horizontal plane)
above the F-614 deck.
I think this will be a cleaner system, with better
accessibility, than using a throttle cable that Bill B. describes. Don't
forget that the WD-415 TRIM cable anchor weldment (the nut on a I inch sq.
SS plate) is part of the finish kit, and you might need to order one
seperately from Vans ($6.09 last week).
FOR SLOW BUILDERS ONLY:
Those of you with old elevators - I'm a slow builder ..:^( will
have a royal pain in the ^&&%$ if you built before Rev 3 of sheet 5 (now
sheet 5a), and have to open up the 7/16 hole in the WD-405 elevator horn.
I managed to use a 1/2 inch Unibit on an extension, got a 1/2 hole and then
used a slightly modified SB-625-6 (not a -7 as now called out) plastic
bushing. No way could I work out how to get that hole to be enlarged to
5/8 working through the slot in the pop-riveted leading edge of the elevator.
Interestingly enough, I got one of these -6 bushings to fit into
the main spar of the horizontal stab. by filing off the "lip" on two sides.
I could get a 1/2 hole in my main stab. spar without hitting the spar
caps. Seems tidier than no bushing and using the RTV approach.
... hope this helps some others considering a hybrid TRIM
cable/servo approach.
..... Gil (fiddling with TRIM tabs) ALEXANDER
***** end old posting *****
UPDATE MAY 98:
Finished the installation after a delay from a shattered elbow...:^(
1. A simple mounting plate was made from 0.025, and held to the F-614 with
4 8-32 screws and nutplates. This plate needs to hold the servo about 1
3/16 above the F-614 deck.
2. Clamping the cable did not work. The geometry of how the cable passes
through the spars and stab causes the cable end to slightly move as the
elevator is moved though it's full range. The fix was easy, I just riveted
a braket to the root stab rib and bolted a piece of 1/4 UHMW plastic to it
with a 7/16 hole in it. The cable is now supported only a few inches from
the servo end, and is free to slide back and forth a little in the bracket.
3. The plastic (glass-filled nylon?) "rod end" provided with the MAC servo
can easily be drilled out and tapped 10-32 to fit the end of the push=pull
cable. It comes as a 8-32 fitting.
.... I'm sure the Gretz part are fine, but you can do this bit yourself...
Gil (that's how I did it) Alexander
>
>Has anyone used Mr Gretz's alternative electric trim mounting kit? I'd
>be interested in hearing any comments as I'm considering this system.
>The trim servo is mounted in the rear of the fuselage as opposed to in
>the elevator, saving some weight in the elevator balance. Please reply
>off list.
>
>Also, should I be concerned about saving too much weight in the tail?
>I'm building an 8, with a C/S IO-360 200hp. I'm trying to save weight
>every chance I get, but should I worry about making it too nose heavy?
>
>--
>Moe Colontonio
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
mailto:gila(at)flash.net to reply privately
Newsletter Editors: Permission given to re-print if
credit is given and a courtesy copy is sent to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
>"You mean that *YOU* are building a *HOMEMADE* airplane???!!!!
Whoa-Nellie! >You won't catch me in *that* thing!! Are you *NUTS*???"
>
I had someone say exactly that to me: 'you won't catch me up in THAT
airplane.' And I said "Well, you're right because I will never ask you to
take a ride, and you'll be the poorer for it."
I find this attitiude pretty prevalent, but towards aviation in general. I
have had pilots (!) say they don't know how I have the nerve to fly around
in a J-3 Cub made in 1946. And when people hear you are going to flit around
in an airplane you built in the garage, 'Why, I never heard of such
foolishness.'
We as pilots are in a minority. There are only 630,000 or so pilots on the
U.S.register of which just over 50-60% of those are active. That is not a
lot of folks. And those of us that build are in a minority of the pilots
that fly and THAT is yet a smaller number of folks. Which, in my mind, makes
us all something special. Not high and mighty, just special. It takes a LOT
to get even a private ticket: time, commitment, money, skill. It takes a
BUNCH more of all of that to pound an airplane together.
So: I don't get offended. I feel sorry for those that have chosen an
ordinary kind of life, safely stuck on the ground, never squeeking on a
landing three point just so, never weaving between the towering clouds,
never leaving the ground in something built with their OWN HANDS! And this
piece of sculpture I crafted myself also takes me places at 200 miles per
hour. What a world we will know; the enjoyment we have added to our lives
they will never know.
Let them shake their heads in disbelief while I shake mine also in
disbelief. Life may not be passing them by, but it sure isn't riding on a
self-made magic carpet. What have THEY done that can be thought of as a
landmark event in their lives? For the most part, those events may not be
able to match up with what we think of as a necessity.
MAN, I wish it wasn't raining. I REALLY have the urge to go out and FLY
right now.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Expanding MY OWN envelope
________________________________________________________________________________
<35526396.548DD167(at)bellatlantic.net>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I called Vans, and they said there is no RV-8 QB manual. They don't
>have
>the time to write one.
Moe is that what someone really told you?
I believe the more correct answer is that it was deemed unnecessary since
the RV-8 quick build requires you to simply begin doing the work in the
construction man. at the point that it is at when you receive it (unlike
the RV-6(A) quick builds which had extra work designed into the
construction process which required a different construction man.)
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: trim runaway |
David A. Barnhart wrote:
>
>
> All:
>
> I experienced a trim runaway yeasterday and thought it would be helpful to
> pass my experiences on to others.
>
In the future if you ever have any type of runaway trim again. The first
thing to do is to oppose the the trim with opposite stick force and then
pull the breaker. This is especially important at low altitude for
obvious reasons. I might also suggest addind an idiot lite to warn you
of unwanted stab trim. Just food for thought.
Good Luck with your plane.
Don
RV-6 N767DC
Mont Vernon,NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Champagne <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
David A. Barnhart wrote:
>
>
> >Ever since I have started building my 6A,
> >friends and even family all seem to have the same reaction. "You mean
> >that *YOU* are building a *HOMEMADE* airplane???!!!! Whoa-Nellie! You
How about the fuel leaks in the wiring duct on Boeing 737's?
Don
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
Jeff
So what?? Are you NUTS?? Whoever heard of building an airplane in a garage?
People just don't do that, DO they??
Where do you think we would be today, if Henry Ford, and the Wright boys had
listened to the same kinds of critics?
What are critics, other than people who are afraid to do something on their
own, other than just criticize? How many of them really make a huge mark in
history?
So are you building an aircraft that is going to be inherently unsafe? That is
a question that only you can truly answer for yourself. If you allow the doubt
and alarm to get to you, then that is your choice, not that of those who doubt
and have feelings of alarm to determine.
Van has flown every model of the aircraft he has designed. What right thinking
individual would fly an aircraft he had designed, if he was not convinced it
was safe?
Build your aircraft to the specific design and tolerances that Van drew up,
and you should have no fear that it will perform exactly the way the man said
it would. Build it differently, then maybe you have cause for concern. As to
why those who claim they will never fly in your airplane have reason to be
concerned, well, I can't explain that one
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Russ Christopher <russ_c(at)netport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Just a little venting |
David A. Barnhart wrote:
>
>
> >Ever since I have started building my 6A,
> >friends and even family all seem to have the same reaction. "You mean
> >that *YOU* are building a *HOMEMADE* airplane???!!!! Whoa-Nellie!...
I have had a framed quotation in my home for about twenty years that has
given me strength many times when facing criticism. I share it here, for
what it's worth...
"It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the
strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them
better;
The credit belongs to the man who is in the arena, whose face is marred
by dust, sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes
short again and again, who knows the great enthusiasms, the great
devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause.
Who at the best, knows in the end the triumph of high achievement. Who
at the worst, if he fails at least fails while daring greatly, so that
his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls, who know
neither Victory nor Defeat."
My copy is signed "anonymous". I'm sure some of you have seen this
somewhere, and probably know more about it than I. All I know is it
struck a chord in me when I first read it, and it still does.
Hang in there! I hope to be buying soon...
Russ Christopher
Leona Valley, Ca.
Gonna buy a -6....no, a -8..... no, a -6...., no...uhhhhhhhhhh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: trim runaway |
How does the airplane fly in full down trim?
Ron Vandervort,RV-6Q, wiring my trim with a on/off switch next to
throttle.
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
| Subject: | HS 802 tongue width |
Okay, early days on my HS forward spar, and I've hit a snag. I laid out the
HS802's on my jig and centrelined everything. I've lined up the HS814 and
HS810 and drilled/clecoed them to the 802's (avoiding the ears like the
manual and George's video says). I measured outwards from the centreline (4
7/16") to locate the forward spar bend lines, and marked that line across
the 802 and 810/814. So far so good. Having found those two lines, I removed
the 810/814s, but left the 802's clecoed to the jig while I measure and mark
out the tongues. (unlike George who cuts the tongues before everything
else - I couldn't figure out how he knew where to cut, so I did it in this
order instead). Anyway, the problem is this. The forward spar bend line is
where the 802 flange is cut to form the 802 tongue. At that line, the widest
point of the 802 web, ***avoiding the flange radius like the manual says***,
is less than 3". However, the plans appear to indicate that the width of the
tongues is the same as the distance between the 810 and 814, ie. 3 1/4".
After much looking at the video and measuring and cross checking several
dozen times, I've gone ahead and cut the tongues, and, when assembled, the
edges of the 802 tongues are parallel to, and about 1/8" inside of, the
outside corner edges of the 810 and 814's.
Did I get this horribly wrong? Am I going to have to remake those parts,
lest my forward spar come apart in midair?
____
Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751
Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz
442 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand
RV-8 Builder #80630
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: trim runaway |
<< After repairing the fault, I went out today and did a little experiment.
At 120 mph, I put in full UP trim, and found that I had no problems holding
the airplane straight and level. By using both hands on the stick, I could
have flown indefinitely that way. At 90 mph, I could quite comfortably fly
with full up trim and one hand on the stick holding the airplane straigh >>
Dave,
It's good that you had the foresight to have a "slow trim" and a circuit
breaker. What do you think would happen it you have a full speed down trim
runaway near the ground when you are blasting down the runway showing all your
spam can buddies how quick you "homemade plane" is? If it is controllable with
one hand at 90 and with two hands at 120 mph, how many hands do you think it
takes at 180? Most aerodnamic forces build with the square of the speed. 120
is roughly 2 times more than 90 and 180 is approximately 5 times in my head. (
too lazy to get the calculator). Has anyone ever flown a flight test where
they have carefully built speed with full down trim to see the forces at Vne?
This is another thing to think about when you start trimming the length of the
stick less than what the plans call for!
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Costello <bcos(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: trim runaway |
>After repairing the fault, I went out today and did a little experiment.
>At 120 mph, I put in full UP trim, and found that I had no problems holding
>the airplane straight and level. By using both hands on the stick, I could
>have flown indefinitely that way. At 90 mph, I could quite comfortably fly
>with full up trim and one hand on the stick holding the airplane straight
>and level.
>
>Best Regards,
>Dave Barnhart
>RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
>Flying
Thanks for the hard data, Dave. It makes those of us who have installed
electric trim feel that much better about our decision. And we know who
to talk to if we want to make our trim less sensitive. Could you expand
on the Matronics device versus the one that is made by the company that
provides the servo (forget the name right now)?
Bill Costello bcos(at)ix.netcom.com Chicago
RV-6 in process N97WC reserved SBGA enthusiast
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
Probably worse than those who say you must be "nuts" to get in that
thing and actually FLY are the people who DO FLY and have at least some
idea of what you are doing...those who cannot resist pointing out things
on your plane project which they do not think are right; won't work;
should be done "better" etc etc....I finally gave up, and just say
something like, "Well, that's a good idea. When YOU build your own
airplane, I'm sure you will do it that way, but THIS ONE IS MINE and I
am going to do it MY WAY." (ala Sinatra!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 with 0-360 |
<< Does anyone know if anyone ever built an RV-3 with an 0-360?? >>
Hey Jim,
I remember seeing an RV-3 with a IO-360 (200HP) at the EAA fly-in at Sussex a
few years back. I think the guy was from Maryland. He shared a hangar with
Bobby Thomas who also owned an RV-3. I think both planes have been sold.
That 200 HP RV-3 MOVED like nothin' you'd ever seen before. ROC was 3000 fpm.
Are you thinking about an engine change?
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Malott" <drmalott(at)hotmail.com> |
For Sale
RV 6 O-320,Warnke,silder,manual flaps 50 T.T.
{building itch}
SERIOUS BUYERS send your e-mail address OFF LIST to
drmalott(at)hotmail.com and I will send details.
ITCHY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | RV builders in Central/Northern California |
Hi folks,
I'm flying out to Oakland, Ca. on 5/21/98 & returning to South Florida
on 5/31/98. I'll be visiting with my girlfriend; going to see her
daughter. I'm going to rent a car. I'll be wandering around, taking in
the sights.
I'd be interested in visiting any RV projects in the area. Please
respond off list. I'm also going to try to convince Susan that we should
go to the Portland, Oregon area. Hee, hee, hee!! :-)
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 ailerons & rear spars
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: trim runaway |
>
>How does the airplane fly in full down trim?
>
>Ron Vandervort,RV-6Q, wiring my trim with a on/off switch next to
>throttle.
>Seattle area
Several "spam can" airplanes have a split switch on the yoke so that 2
independent circuits must be completed to actuate the trim servo. This
could be accomplished by adding a trigger on your stick that must be pulled
before the tophat switch gets hot. Both of those circuits would have to
fail to cause a runaway. Electric Bob could come up with a jillion, well
thought out, circuits that could anticipate the probable failure modes.
In the pink panther I push in nearly full nose down trim at 160 mph before I
roll inverted if I plan to stay that way very long. I can hold it (right
side up) with one hand with out any difficulty. I have never pushed it to
the stop, but I will on the next flight and I will see what it does at
speeds near redline and report here. I am certain my trim is rigged at the
specs.
A couple of thoughts (read "My Opinions") on electric trim. I have flown
airplanes with no trim,( my lawn dart, sonerai, etc) to airplanes with
electric trim only which were nearly uncontrollable in out of trim
conditions, (Jet Commander, it had normal AC trim, emergency AC trim, and
emergency DC trim). I think the location and ease of the trim control is
far more important than whether it is manually or electrically actuated. On
the 400 series cessna the trim wheel is located at your right knee and I
never use electric trim in one even if it is installed. The manual system
is so comfortable to use that it is easier. On the King Air on landing if
you did not roll the trim back thru the entire flare you would crash the
nose on the ground. It was necessary to use the electric trim to really
"roll the airplane on" the runway.
On the RV trim change is not necessary to smoothly land the airplane. If
the trim is in a comfortable and accessable location I would question
whether it is a necessary option. In the -4 where I do acro I would not
have it. In the -6 there is a better case for it if you dont want the bar
from the panel down to the floor where it mounts. I do think the -4 and -6
manual system is comfortable and work very intuitively.
The final reason I question the electric trim installation is the clevis
that attaches to the tab. If you compare the manual trim cable attachment
to the little plastic clevis and tiny threaded rod that attach to the tab on
the electric system. I am sure it is safe and I am not saying I would not
fly an electric trim airplane, but I will stick with my manual system.
NOTHING will ruin your day faster than a loose trim tab.
IMHO, Standing by with my nomex ( remember I said, "My Opinion")
Tailwinds from MCW,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com RV4 "the pink panther"
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Maurice Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: trim runaway |
What does happen if your trim tab comes loose? I could see a big problem if it
jammed, but if it was just hanging, would it cause the tail to flutter? I'm
interested to know how it would affect the plane.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> I am sure it is safe and I am not saying I would not
> fly an electric trim airplane, but I will stick with my manual system.
> NOTHING will ruin your day faster than a loose trim tab.
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Sell RV-4 w/o engine? |
I am thinking of selling my RV-4 without the engine and prop. (Will use these
in my RV-8). Has anyone done this? I know of one fellow who did this; the
buyer was building an RV-6 and already had an engine, but decided he did not
have the time to build, so bought this RV-6 without the engine, and used his
own engine. Both parties came out good. Seems like this would be good for
liability, too. Ideas? Anyone interested? Thanks again.
Von Alexander
Salem, Oregon
RV-8 #544. Jigging up fuselage
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | OSHKOSH ACCOMODATIONS? |
Listers; I have decided at the last minute to go to Oshkosh for the fly-in. I
am guessing it is probably difficult to find a place to stay. Does anyone live
near Oshkosh that could call a local motel and see if they have rooms? Or know
of any other phone numbers to call? Or have a place they go every year that I
could get the number of? Wouldnt mind driving 20 or 30 miles if necessary.
Would be myself and my bucker (16 year old son). Any help or recommendations
appreciated! Reply off list.
Von Alexander
Salem, Oregon
RV-8 #544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS 802 tongue width |
the edges of the 802 tongues are parallel to, and about 1/8" inside of, the
>outside corner edges of the 810 and 814's.
>
>Did I get this horribly wrong? Am I going to have to remake those parts,
>lest my forward spar come apart in midair?
Chris;
I am just finishing my second front spar. I think you are OK. My HS802
(602 on my plans) tongue is 3 1/16 at it's narrowest point, and are also
about 1/8 inside of the 810 and 814. But I have a 5/16 edge distance for
the rivets in the narrowest portion of the tongue. So press on.
May 01, 1998 - May 09, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-eq