RV-Archive.digest.vol-es

May 19, 1998 - May 26, 1998



From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Flaring primer tube
>I went to flare my 1/8 copper priming tube last night and realised that >*my* trusty Eastman flaring tool won't clamp tubing this small. How do I >get it to fit my -2 T fittings. Does someone stock an itsy-bitsy flaring tool? >Leo Davies ACS and others have 1/8" primer flaring blocks available. I know of no adapters for Eastman (or any other) flaring tool to do Primer lines. Ask around your local Chapter. This is just the kind of tool that a Chapter should consider buying. Everyone needs it *ONE TIME* for a couple days, and then never again until the next plane. Our Chapter has a Nicopress tool (the big one with the handles) since one needs to do several cable ends and not everyone is into doing 5-Tuck splices! ;-) Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Westover RV RendezVous
Gary A. Sobek wrote: > > Anyone know how many RV's showed up? > > BTW, thanks Chris for inviting everyone. Are we going to do it again > next year? > > == > Gary A. Sobek Gary, I counted 27 on the ground and 2 to 3 in the air after lunch. It was great to see the variety there. It was a great opportunity for us who are still building to get pictures, crawl around the aircraft, and speak with the guys who are flying. Thanks to Chris, Bud, and the ladies who helped out! Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage..ready to skin! Cupertino, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: steenkeeng R410
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 19, 1998
>There is a new R410!! It is alleged to actually fit!!! Order P/N >R410PP for >around $5. I wish I had known this yesterday..... > >Check six! >Mark > > > Yes it's true. It was one of the few parts that rookie builders seemed to have problems with so engineering recently did a prepunch part that was checked for fit on a PP rudder. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: David Hiney <dhiney(at)jps.net>
Subject: BFL fly in
Is there going to be a RV fly in at L45 (Bakersfield) in June? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: Flaring primer tube
You can use the regular solder on brass fittings available for primer lines. They are not cheap but offer a much stronger and reliable connection than the Small 1/8 tube flares. After all reliability is what you are after. If you choose not to use them you might as well use the compression fittings instead of the flare fittings. RV4 273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: RV-4 fuse jigging
More questions regarding jigging the bulkheads and longerons: 1) I assume that F-407 web has to be notched to clear the main longerons though I havent found any mention or depiction of this in the plans or manual anywhere. Is this correct? If this is required, why wasnt it done at Vans like all the other notches on other bulkheads were? 2) Assuming the above is correct, it appears that these notches will be placed about 3/8" - 1/2" down from where the flange starts on the F-407A's if F407 is jigged using the dimensions given on SK-39; that is the flange will need to be removed down to this point. Correct? 3) I assume the longeron horizontal surface must be notched where it passes the bars on F-411 which serve as the mount for the horizontal stab. I cant imagine you would want to notch the bars. Again I was unable to locate a reference to this on the plans anywhere. Is this correct? Is it just me or does the documentation for the fuse lack the detail that was there when building the empennage and wings? BTW, after spending much time (and $, bought a smart level) rejigging my firewall, finally reduced the error mentioned last week to about 1/32". Dont think I would be able to do better than that by rebuilding (still not sure where I went wrong and what I would do differently) so I'm going to use it as is. Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: Weight Penalty
dear rv'ers at the sun-n-fun, i saw some rv's finished so well you could not see evidence of rivits, anyone know how this was accomplished? i tried to fill the heads with light weight puddy, sanded smooth, primed with FEATHER FILL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Jigs
Date: May 19, 1998
>Does anyone know of a available stab/wing jig in the Dallas area? Also I had >read in past issue of RV Aviator of a metal jig available, does anyone now >of the manufacturer & aprox $'s. > >Mark Steffensen >RV-8 Starting Horizantal Stab >Email: Steffco1(at)msn.com > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: BFL fly in
<< Is there going to be a RV fly in at L45 (Bakersfield) in June? >> You bet! 6 June. See ya there. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: Weight Penalty
dear rv'ers at the sun-n-fun, i saw some rv's finished so well you could not see evidence of rivits, anyone know how this was accomplished? i tried to fill the heads with light weight puddy, sanded smooth, primed with FEATHER FILL . IT looked very smooth until i painted it with imron and all the putty seams showed up with reflection of the glossy coat. dissapointed with results, ready to strip and start over unless the weight penalty isn't so great to sand and putty some more? any comments would be help ful thanks scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: BFL fly in
David, June 6, for the Chapter 71 BBQ. There's always a bunch of RV's and Rocket's there. I'll be there for sure, although not flyin my -6 :( It still needs a motor and avionics! Anyone know of an easy bank to....No, I guess that would be a bad idea. They probably would'nt let me build in the "Pen". See ya there, Laird SoCal owens(at)aerovironment.com RV-6 waiting on the finish kit (I can't wait to do the canopy! Really) From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Tue, May 19, 1998 9:42 AM Subject: RV-List: BFL fly in Is there going to be a RV fly in at L45 (Bakersfield) in June? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: Yohannes Kayir <yohannkayir(at)pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: firewall
Fellow listers, Does the aft facing, bottom flange of the stainless steel firewall on an RV-4 go under the bottom (.040) of the belly skin or the other way around? Not so clear in the plans. Thank you in advance. Yohannes Kayir, Pensacola, FL RV-4 (fuselage out of the jig, in a week, I hope) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sport AV8R <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: Flaring primer tube
Leo: following my A&P's advice I flared mine using a dull-tipped awl. Had to hold the tubing in my hand (don't slip!) and worked the tip in, rolling the side of the awl in ever-widening little circles to open the end of the tubing, which is very soft and workable. Once you get enough of a flare for the nut and sleeve to grip the tube, the fitting itself will burnish the flare as things are tightened down. I have *not* yet had an opportunity to test this installation, as my fuel system will continue to contain only air for the next 5 days, but soon enough I'll be gassing up for the first time, and if it leaks, I'll let the list know. Bill Boyd RV-6A virginia inspection 5/27!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Wanted RV4 or RV6
A friend of mine is looking for either an RV4 or RV6 to import to the UK if you are selling please send details to me off list. RV8 80274 -- Rob Hatwell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Eugene Fly-in
Date: May 19, 1998
On June 1 at 6 p.m., the Eugene RV Builders Group is having a mini-flyin at the Creswell Airport located just south-east of Eugene, Oregon (Hobby Field: see below for airport information). The purpose of the gathering is to socialize (bring a potluck) and provide inspirational/motivational rides to local builders/spouses/significant others and want-a-be's. Someone at Van's will be flying down the RV-8A. I will have BBQ's hot if you want to bring something to grill. We will be set up at the Local EAA clubhouse on the south end of the field. Ross Mickey Finishing Kit 6A ++++++++++++++++++++++ Location Lat/Long: 43-55-55.448N / 123-00-24.294W (43.9320689 / 123.0067483) (estimated) Elevation: 535 ft. / 163 m (estimated) Variation: 19E (1985) From city: 1 mile NE of CRESWELL, OR Airport Operations Facility use: Open to the public Sectional chart: KLAMATH FALLS Control tower: no ARTCC: SEATTLE CENTER FSS: MC MINNVILLE FLIGHT SERVICE STATION [1-800-WX-BRIEF] NOTAMs facility: MMV (NOTAM-D service available) Attendance: OCT-APR 0800-1800, MAY-SEP 0800-2000 Pattern altitude: 865 ft. AGL / 1400 ft. MSL Segmented circle: yes Lights: DUSK-DAWN Beacon: white-green (lighted land airport) Landing fee: no Airline operations: not certified under FAR Part 139 Int'l operations: not permitted Airport Communications NOTE: Due to a database access problem, not all communications frequencies may be listed. We are aware of the problem. It will be fixed by June 18, 1998. Please do not email about this. There is nothing that can be done about it until then. CTAF: 122.8 UNICOM: 122.8 Radio aids to navigate to the Airport VOR radial/distance VOR name Freq Var ------------------- ----------------------- ------ --- EUGr121/14.7 EUGENE VORTAC 112.90 20E CVOr142/36.2 CORVALLIS VOR/DME 115.40 18E Airport Services Fuel available: 100LL 80 Airframe service: MINOR Powerplant service: MINOR Bottled oxygen: NONE Bulk oxygen: NONE Runway Information Runway 15/33 Dimensions: 3100 x 60 ft. / 945 x 18 m Surface: asphalt, in good condition Runway edge lights: medium intensity RUNWAY 15 RUNWAY 33 Traffic pattern: left left Markings: basic basic Markings condition: good good Visual slope indicator: 2-light PAPI on left Displaced threshold: no no Touchdown point: no no Obstructions: NONE NONE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: Weight Penalty
It is rather a waste of time to fill rivets. Feather fill might be great but after all this is a sheet metal airplane. Rivets are supposed to show!! What happens when the rivets work or the skin flexing causes the stuff to pop off?? Depending on how much is used there can be a substancal weight gain. Weight adds up quicker than you can believe.. Recomendation , Dont do it ! 273sb RV4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: firewall
The skin should go under the firewall flange,, Keeps oil ect from getting under the .040 skin. Rule of thumb, skins should overlap front to back or inboard to out board. Just imagine you are the air flowing over it. which feels better or smoother.. 273sb RV4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Oilcanning, final verdict?
What was the final verdict on oilcanning? I have alot of it in two panels on my elevator. It's perfectly straight, so I'm not sure what caused it. Testing it at different temps didn't seem to affect it. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: airflow performance fuel injection
To someone out there I had offered to send photos of my installation. went on vacation, lost name of individual, ect ect.. are you still interested?????? 273sb RV4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Subject: Flap Travel
When trial fitting my flaps the forward "roll" of the flap stops on the inboard edge of the flap brace(the part that steps up to rest on top of the inboard doubler plate. The rest of the flap does not touch the flap brace. Subsequently the flap does not line up with the aileron when jigged with the wooden wing cutouts. Should the inboard foward end of the flap be trimmed so the remainder touches the flap brace or is there some other problem???? Bill Pagan -80555 -tanks & things ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
From: rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr)
Hi Mike 1, Correct. F-407 has to be notched to clear the upper longeron. The joggle is already there but for some reason, the notch in the web was not made . Mabey because this is in the area where the 2 sections overlap. 2, Do not recall having to cut away any flange at this point but may have had to. The joggle at the top of 407A pretty much locates the longeron position. do what is necessary to achieve the vertical dimension called out. 3, look on Dwg. #30 upper R.H. ccorner, sectionB-B'. It says that the longeron is to be notched to clear the F-411 vertical bars. The lower longeron is left intact however and the bottoms of the bars are notched Regards, Bill RV4, N66WD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Travel
I cut mine to fit. (I cut off a portion of the 90 bend down on the "roll" to clear the brace where it steps up.) It flys great. It will line up after triming it. ---pagan wrote: > > > When trial fitting my flaps the forward "roll" of the flap stops on the > inboard edge of the flap brace(the part that steps up to rest on top of the > inboard doubler plate. The rest of the flap does not touch the flap brace. > Subsequently the flap does not line up with the aileron when jigged with > the wooden wing cutouts. Should the inboard foward end of the flap be > trimmed so the remainder touches the flap brace or is there some other > problem???? > > Bill Pagan > -80555 -tanks & things == Gary A. Sobek RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144 <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: Flap Travel
Bill Pagan asked: >When trial fitting my flaps the forward "roll" of the flap stops on the >inboard edge of the flap brace(the part that steps up to rest on top of the >inboard doubler plate. The rest of the flap does not touch the flap brace. >Should the inboard foward end of the flap be trimmed so the remainder touches >the flap brace or is there some other problem??? I had this problem some time ago on my RV-6. The advice from the factory was: Trim that portion of the flap back slightly, then bend a new flange. They said this was a common problem. Kyle Boatright ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Oilcanning, final verdict?
Hi again Moe: I sent Van's an E mail about my right elevator oilcanning, and Tom said that it is not uncommon to get some in the control surfaces. Bottom line is not to worry about it. Just the same, it really rubs me the wrong way! My elevator is straight also, so I am quite puzzled as to how this cropped up. This *has* given me an idea for the name of my RV......the Tinman, since it comes with its own oilcan! Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 on to the left elevator and that scary trim tab! Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV 4 Pat A <RV4PatA(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
In a message dated 5/19/98 6:01:26 PM, you wrote: > >2) Assuming the above is correct, it appears that these notches will be >placed about 3/8" - 1/2" down from where the flange starts on the F-407A's >if F407 is jigged using the dimensions given on SK-39; that is the flange >will need to be removed down to this point. Correct? > >3) I assume the longeron horizontal surface must be notched where it passes >the bars on F-411 which serve as the mount for the horizontal stab. I cant >imagine you would want to notch the bars. Again I was unable to locate a >reference to this on the plans anywhere. Is this correct? Looks like you have it figured out ok to me. There is a note on dwg. 30 about notching the longeron. There is other structure there to make up for what you cut out. Have fun! Pat Allender Iowa City -4 finishing forever ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV 4 Pat A <RV4PatA(at)aol.com>
Date: May 19, 1998
Subject: Re: firewall
In a message dated 5/19/98 9:13:52 PM, you wrote: > >Does the aft facing, bottom flange of the stainless steel firewall on an >RV-4 go under the bottom (.040) of the belly skin or the other way >around? Not so clear in the plans. Thank you in advance. I put the stainless overlapping the skin. Looks good to me. Pat Allender ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: Oilcanning, final verdict?
<< Subj: RV-List: Oilcanning, final verdict? Date: 98-05-19 21:01:20 EDT From: moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net (MoeJoe) What was the final verdict on oilcanning? I have alot of it in two panels on my elevator. It's perfectly straight, so I'm not sure what caused it. Testing it at different temps didn't seem to affect it. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe >> Hello Listers and Lurkers, The root rib and the tip rib have two different angles. Because of the different angles of the ribs, the skin has a twist in it from one end to the other. This is a common design practice in homebults, but it doesn't make it correct. Fortunately, there is a way to control any potential canning when you rivet the skin down. Rivet each end of the skin to the spar. Rivet the center point of the skin to the spar. Rivet at the two mid points between the three rivets. Rivet at the four mid points between the five rivets. Etc. By the time you have half of the rivets installed, the skin should be locked down, so you can install the remainder of the rivets. Try this with clecos on a canned skin, and see for yourself. BTW, what I just gave you was a standard practice from sixty years ago that seems to have become forgotten. Just an afterthought, aluminum sheets thinner than 0.032 thick can not support its own weight. Just handling the 0.016, 0.020 and 0.025 skin panels by one end can/will stretch the skin and create a canned section. Additionally, removing the plastic film from the control surface skins can stretch the skin, also. It just takes a little care with the thinner sections to prevent creating problems much later. Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 19, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: RV Fuse Stand
The pics of the RV Stand that I did are now up on Sam's site.. http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/tips.html Thanks again to Sam for a great site, and I hope this helps some of you....It is a really handy method.. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Controls and about to mount Empennage.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Fred New <newf(at)ics.ee>
Subject: Re: firewall
On Tue, 19 May 1998, RVer273sb wrote: > The skin should go under the firewall flange,, Keeps oil ect from > getting under the .040 skin. Rule of thumb, skins should overlap front > to back or inboard to out board. Just imagine you are the air flowing > over it. which feels better or smoother.. 273sb RV4 The rule of thumb here isn't stated very clearly, but for less drag, front to back, the back skin should go on top of the front skin. Imagine a tear drop--blunt end ahead, tapered end in back. (In the archives, search for "overlap" and "LesDrag".) For wings, the general consensus seems to be to overlap like shingles so water doesn't get inside. The firewall flange advice above makes sense too. -- Fred New (newf(at)ics.ee) RV-6A wannabuild Estonia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbldr3170 <Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Names for RV's
In a message dated 5/20/98 12:12:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jorear(at)mari.net writes: << This *has* given me an idea for the name of my RV......the Tinman, since it comes with its own oilcan! >> Well my wife has aptly named my RV-4 "the Mistress" becuase the airplane gets all my love and attention (or so she says) Regards Merle (flyin' in '99 ??) Miller ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com>
Subject: Re: Flaring primer tube
Avery Tools sells a flaring tool that will flare any tube from 1/8' to 3/4" tubing. Part # 212 . Made by Parker Hannifin the same folks that make your wheels and brakes. Price $72.00. Carroll Bird RV-4 just finished primer lines about two weeks ago. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: fuselage in jig.
What is the minimum amount of skins you can have riveted on the fuselage before you remove it from the jig. I have all the bottom skins on, and the side skins from the rear seat backward. I need to move it from where it is. I would feel better waiting until they are all on, but... Would it be safe with what I have done? Thanks. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: jon's seat
I have tried to find out more about Jon's "golden" seat for rv-4's, but have not. Has anyone else been lucky on this. (price. availability, etc.) Thanks. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Tim Bronson <TBronson(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Pneumatic squeezers
Hi Folks, Does anyone out there have an opinion on the suitability of alligator-type (as opposed to the C-type) pneumatic squeezers for an RV project? Thanks, Tim - Pittsburgh - collecting tool$ PS - I like the idea of signing off with your location. It helps me get an idea of where all these RV's are going together and flying. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Hobbs time or tach time?
During the flight testing period, what is used to determine that you have met the 25 or 40 hour requirment spelled out in the operating limitations? Is it tach time or "Hobbs" time? Because usually, one hour of hobbs, or flight time, will not put a full hour on the tach. Anyway, I've put 3.5 hours on the tach, and solved the heavy left wing. It took two tries at squeezing the right aileron trailing edge, and it now flies straight as an arrow. The next thing I want to work on is my oil temp. I think that my inlet to the oil cooler may be the problem. I don't think there's enough space for the air to diffuse properly, and its only cooling a 3" diameter circle in the center of the cooler. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV s/n 22960 The testing continues ........... MLaboyteau(at)aol.com Broken Arrow, Ok ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: fuselage in jig.
<< What is the minimum amount of skins you can have riveted on the fuselage before you remove it from the jig. I have all the bottom skins on, and the side skins from the rear seat backward. I need to move it from where it is. I would feel better waiting until they are all on, but... Would it be safe with what I have done? Thanks. Michael >> Micheal: You can move the thing, but you will have to re-jig the fwd fuse before riveting the fwd skins on. A slight twist could be present if you turn it over and proceed to rivet the thing together. If you are aware of the method of finishing a Stewart S-51 QB fuse, you might get away with using that method. Can you leave it in the jig, and move the whole thing? You will still need to re-level the jig, but this may be a safer method. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: fuselage in jig.
Date: May 20, 1998
Michael, My RV-6A is still pretty flexible from the F-604 to the firewall with all the skins on except the front bottom. I would at least want the front skins clecoed in place before moving it around. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont RV-6A fuselage upside down in the jig for landing gear drilling -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 8:18 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: fuselage in jig. What is the minimum amount of skins you can have riveted on the fuselage before you remove it from the jig. I have all the bottom skins on, and the side skins from the rear seat backward. I need to move it from where it is. I would feel better waiting until they are all on, but... Would it be safe with what I have done? Thanks. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kelvin Rempel" <krempel(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: RV Builders in Alberta
I'm looking for any builders or pilots of RV's in the Alberta region, specifically Edmonton. My fiance and I are looking at purchasing an RV-6 kit in the near future and would like to look at what's involved, and maybe try on the cockpit for size before we plunk down money on the kit. Reply's can be forwarded to krempel(at)telusplanet.net . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
Thanks Bill, I thought I had seen that reference to notch the longerons @ F-411 at some time in the past, but when I went back looking for it I couldnt find it. Now on to the next problem. On the advice of a couple of listers and a local builder, when I assembled my firewall I went ahead and rivetted on the WD-402/403 weldments. Now that the firewall is jigged and I'm trying to fit the longerons, the angle on WD-402s is wrong. That is the WD-402s should point at the tops of F-404 so that the longerons will nest in the weldment and properly fit the F-404. A straight edge placed on the horizontal surface of the weldment should contact the jig at 28 9/16", but on mine it is still 3/4" above the jig at this point. With the longeron in place on the jig, the forward part of the longeron contacts the weldment but there is a gap at the aft end of the weldment of about 1/8" (this gap on the horizontal part of the arm of the weldment). If I pull the longeron into place with a clamp, the longeron bows between the firewall and F-404. Shims between the weldment and longerons would seem to be unacceptible, as would shims between the weldment and the vertical firewall stiffeners. Any advice on this? Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >Hi Mike >3, look on Dwg. #30 upper R.H. ccorner, sectionB-B'. It says that the >longeron is to be notched to clear the F-411 vertical bars. The lower >longeron is left intact however and the bottoms of the bars are notched > >Regards, Bill RV4, N66WD > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Pneumatic squeezers
Date: May 20, 1998
>Does anyone out there have an opinion on the suitability of >alligator-type >(as opposed to the C-type) pneumatic squeezers for an RV project? > >Tim - Pittsburgh - collecting tool$ Tim: I have a alligator ttype & please buy the C type. I have to use washers to get the right height because the ram is not adjustable. Bob Avery's is a good one I have heard. Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Yohannes Kayir <yohannkayir(at)pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: firewall/bottom skin
Thanks for all the replies. While we're on this subject, I recall reading something to the effect that we are better off not riveting this same forward bottom belly skin (F-422). Until when? What are the benefits? Thanks. Yohann Pensacola, FL. RV-4 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic squeezers
> Does anyone out there have an opinion on the suitability > of alligator-type (as opposed to the C-type) pneumatic squeezers > for an RV project? We've got both, and they're WWII era. The C-type squeezer gets used very frequently. The alligator-type is very difficult to line up straight, even with two people. Off-center rivets of drill-out quality happen frequently with it. I wouldn't pay for one, but if you're gifted with one, like us, then I wouldn't throw it out. I'd just explore every avenue before using it. -- -------- Rob Rimbold rimbold(at)ntr.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: nfrance(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (NEIL FRANCE)
Subject: Re: Andair fuel valve.
Is there anyone out there who knows of a U.K. source for the Andair fuel valve suitable for the RV6.? Also any advice on obtaining or making the stall warning device parts for U.K. approval would be welcome. Thanks in advance Neil France. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: Heavyweight starter for sale
From: rvinfo(at)Juno.com (Dave Smith)
I have a new Prestolite MZ-4222 starter for sale. This is a geared starter for 149 tooth lycomings. This is a new starter, not a rebuilt. $250 shipping included. Bruce Green BruceGreen(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
<< That is the WD-402s should point at the tops of F-404 so that the longerons will nest in the weldment and properly fit the F-404. >> Mike, Part of your problem might be that you are trying to install the longerons inside the weldment. They are supposed to be on the outside of the weldment. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: firewall/bottom skin
<< While we're on this subject, I recall reading something to the effect that we are better off not riveting this same forward bottom belly skin (F-422). Until when? What are the benefits? >> Yohan, Until the bottom skin is installed, it goes under this flange. No benefit thats just the way it is. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christopher E Browne" <cebrowne@duke-energy.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: Pneumatic squeezers
Tim, I asked this question before I bought my C type squeezer. I found the opinions mostly negative. Although I have found many places on the empennage where I wished I had one, the alligator squeezer is not as flexible and guarantees that you start your rivet squeeze at an angle of some degree. This may or may not be a big deal, I suppose, and probably requires a little more finesse. Now, if I could find a used one really cheap, I'd snag one. There are tight places where it is just the thing, but if you only buy one, get the C Frame. Chris Browne Atlanta -6A LE ______________________________ Reply Separator ____________________________ _____ Subject: RV-List: Pneumatic squeezers Date: 5/20/98 1:20 PM Hi Folks, Does anyone out there have an opinion on the suitability of alligator-type (as opposed to the C-type) pneumatic squeezers for an RV project? Thanks, Tim - Pittsburgh - collecting tool$ PS - I like the idea of signing off with your location. It helps me get an idea of where all these RV's are going together and flying. "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" subject. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Hobbs time or tach time?
Date: May 20, 1998
> > During the flight testing period, what is used to determine that you have >met the 25 or 40 hour requirment spelled out in the operating limitations? Is >it tach time or "Hobbs" time? Because usually, one hour of hobbs, or flight >time, will not put a full hour on the tach. As defined in FAR part #1 "Time in service", with respect to maintenance time records, means the time from the moment an aircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches it at the next point of landing. Flight time means: (1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or (2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing. These came from the FAR's at www.landings.comTailwinds, My guess is the FAA would chose the time in service method to answer your question. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com http://www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: AIRPLANEIT <AIRPLANEIT(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
There's an RV-6 hopping around the Twin City area with a frog painted on the tail, and the name "RiVit" -Nick Stolley Woodbury, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Names for RV's
Date: May 20, 1998
The name of my someday-to-be-flying RV-8 will nothing but "HEY-HO-A-LENA"! Nick Knobil Bowdoinham, Maine (Located between Bowdoin, Maine and Merrymeeting Bay - Bowdoin is the green part and Merrymeeting Bay is the blue part) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Rvbldr3170 wrote: > > > In a message dated 5/20/98 12:12:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jorear(at)mari.net > writes: > > << This *has* given me an idea for the name of my RV......the Tinman, > since it comes with its own oilcan! >> > > Well my wife has aptly named my RV-4 "the Mistress" becuase the airplane gets > all my love and attention (or so she says) > > Regards Merle (flyin' in '99 ??) Miller RV'ers My wife named mine "Li'l Huzzy". Says I spend more time with that "Li'l Huzzy" than I do with her!! Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic squeezers
The c-frame ones are not adjustable either in standard form. Avery sells an adjustable set holder. John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A 25088, elevator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pilla, Michael" <mpilla(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Date: May 20, 1998
My wife has named my RV-4 (in progress) "Brass Handle" after the Monty Python skit (the most boring guy, even his parents walked away from him, etc.) My wife claims that homebuilding guys get so enthusiastic and talk about all this boring stuff; so "Brass Handle" it is. I'm seriously thinking of painting it on the side :-) Mike Pilla RV-4, #2866, plumbing the engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355 <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: RV Names
I was kinda thinking of naming my RV6A MISS OVERTIME, since overtime pay is what is mostly paying for this project. Jim Nice RV6A WA State amp 497 Watt version costs $189 and puts out 1,696 BTU's at 85 cubic feet per minute. All the hardware for an exhaust pipe setup looks like it will run between $200 - $220. Minimal homepage at www.dcthermal.qpg.com 281-486-0507 Ross Mickey 6A Finishing Kit- Oregon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerric(at)agt.net
Subject: Re: Oilcanning
I am about to build my empennage control surfaces. What is this "oilcanning" all about. And what can I watch for to eliminate the potential problem. Thank you Gerald RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: RV Names
First attempts at riveting elicited the nick-name "Bondo Bomber" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
> > You can use either, but Hobbs time is generally used for airframe hours > and tach time is usually used for engine hours for TBO purposes. > Assuming that your Hobbs starts running on engine start and shuts off on > shutdown, then that is legitimate "time". > > As for your cooling problem, I would suggest checking a few things > before you try to get more air to the cooler. I know a couple of local > builders that had oil temps that were a bit high, but it was caused be > cooler obstructions or mis-routing of the hoses rather than a lack of > air. My installation runs a 3" SCAT tube to the cooler and if anything > it runs too cool. I have a cockpit adjustable flap that can block off > some to all of the air going to the cooler and unless the OAT is above > 70, it is usually blocked off to keep the oil temp at 180. Especially > if you are using a used oil cooler, have it cleaned and flow tested to > make sure there are no obstructions. Also make sure the hoses are going > to and from the proper ports on the engine. Also, #8 hoses are more * efficient than #6. Good luck. * > Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@bigskytel.com http://www.bigskytel.com/~ebundy/ > > > During the flight testing period, what is used to determine that you > have > met the 25 or 40 hour requirment spelled out in the operating > limitations? Is > it tach time or "Hobbs" time? Because usually, one hour of hobbs, or > flight > time, will not put a full hour on the tach. > > The next thing I want to work on is my oil temp. I think > that my inlet to the oil cooler may be the problem. I don't think > there's > enough space for the air to diffuse properly, and its only cooling a 3" > diameter circle in the center of the cooler. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Hi all, My RV is called "Valentine" as wife and I picked it up at Van's on Valentine's Day 1997. It may keep the name and even have an insignia where stars and bars go - a heart with an arrow thru it. I want yellow over orange but aren't Valentine colors more like white and red?? Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Sliding canopy fit at rear
Hi all, I'm having trouble getting my canopy frame below the skin at the rear. I assume it must be below the level of the F6112 - if it is it looks like the rear skirts will fit easily. Am I right? One thing I did to get it lower was replace the UHMW block with a roller and two "L" shaped keepers. Works with little finger. Anyone see problems I might later face with this setup? Is the canopy is pushed upwards during flight or downwards? If the inflight loads are upwards and strong then my roller deal might be unsafe. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weight Penalty
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 20, 1998
> dear rv'ers > at the sun-n-fun, i saw some rv's finished so well you could not see >evidence > of rivits, anyone know how this was accomplished? i tried to fill >the heads > with light weight puddy, sanded smooth, primed with FEATHER FILL . >IT looked >very smooth until i painted it with imron and all the putty seams >showed up >with reflection of the glossy coat. dissapointed with results, ready >to >strip and start over unless the weight penalty isn't so great to sand >and >putty some more? any comments would be help ful >thanks scott > > > Scott, Is this a whole airplane you have painted with this problem or just a small portion of it? Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: 3/4x3/4x.062 Angle
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 20, 1998
>Doe's this angle go full width on the f-605E that the seat back slips >into? >Or do you cut it in 16" lengths the same as the 2024 T3 shims? > >Regards Mike Comeaux > >RV6A--QB > > > >It goes full length as one piece. This adds stiffness to the F-605 bulkhead also. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Date: May 20, 1998
The Pink Panther came about because when I bought my -4 it had pink trim, It looked really good, but I believe that pickup trucks, airplanes, and lipstick, should all be "Blood Red." I certainly could not stand for the Mary Kay jokes etc. so my plan was to paint the airplane. My wife was even teasing me and said I should put a pink flamingo on the tail, NOT! But a panther might work...... I thought. I put a note pad in my (red)truck and started writing down captions. The one that stuck was "got a problem with pink?" I would not paint it for anything now. It was a big hit at OSH and every where else I go, It really draws people to the airplane and gives me an chance to tell all the story of RV's and home made airplanes. I would highly reccommend nose or tail art and a name for your bird! Tailwinds from MCW, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr pink panther pictures here! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV 4 Pat A <RV4PatA(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
In a message dated 5/20/98 6:14:29 PM, you wrote: >the angle on WD-402s is wrong. I had the same problem on mine, and Tom at vans suggested splitting the weldment where it bends and bending the resulting tabs to fit. I guess the old weldments were built that way to start with. I did not like the idea of taking a hack saw to the nice new parts, but I could not think of any other way to do it. When the longeron is bolted and riveted to the tabs they aren't going anywhere. The thing I didn't like about it when it was done was that the edge distance for the bolts was a little slim where the longeron fastens to the weldment. I wish they would get that fixed. Good luck, whatever you decide to do. Pat Allender Iowa City ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
>My wife has named my RV-4 (in progress) "Brass Handle" after the Monty >Python skit (the most boring guy, even his parents walked away from him, >etc.) My wife claims that homebuilding guys get so enthusiastic and >talk about all this boring stuff; so "Brass Handle" it is. I'm >seriously thinking of painting it on the side :-) And I'm going to paint my wife's name on the side of my RV-6. She deserves it for being so supportive and understanding for all these years. I figure that if Chuck Yeager can paint "Glamorous Glennis" on the nose of his airplanes, I can paint "Marvelous Merry Ann" on mine. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart Glendale, AZ RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: John Bright <john.bright(at)bigfoot.com>
Subject: my build notes
My building notes are at http://www.hroads.net/~john/ if anyone wants to visit. John Bright, Newport News, VA, USA, john.bright(at)bigfoot.com, RV-6/6A 25088, elevator ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Elevator spar, E-602pp
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 20, 1998
>We have a possible problem with the elevator spar, part E-602pp. >After >dimpling, the spar developed a slight twist and curve along its >length. Our >concern is if this condition will cause problems later on down the >line? >Will it cause "oil canning?" The elevator looks okay after clecoing >the >spar into the jig and attaching its skin. But we are concerned about >this >condition and will not rivet, yet. What do you think, continue to >truck, or >get a new spar? > >Jim Tillman and Chris Landry >RV8, 80655, wings to be delivered 6/18 >Newnan, GA > > Jim, Unless you have done something wrong it should be fine. Dimpling a spar flange like this does tend to put a slight bow in it but it still lines up ok. This is the same way 4000 + other empennages have been built. Keep at it. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: DC Thermal Cabin Heaters
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com wrote: > The 12 volt 35 amp 497 Watt version costs $189 and puts > out 1,696 BTU's at 85 cubic feet per minute. 500W isn't a lot of heat, but then it doesn't have to heat a lot of space. Probably plenty for an RV, I guess, unless it's leaky. The $189 won't include wiring, fuse, and switch, I guess. > All the hardware for an exhaust pipe setup > looks like it will run between $200 - $220. The installation price isn't the only consideration. Check whether it's on/off, or is the heat output controllable? You'll need a larger (heavier, more expensive) alternator to pump out 35 Amps continuously PLUS run radios, landing lights, etc. Remember that the 500W is initially provided by your engine (how many HP is 500W?). When the heater's on, your engine will need to produce more power and will therefore use more fuel. You'll also have reduced rate of climb and increased takeoff roll. OTOH, exhaust heat is essentially free (after you've paid for the installation hardware). Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Oilcanning, final verdict?
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 20, 1998
>Hello Listers and Lurkers, > >The root rib and the tip rib have two different angles. Because of >the >different angles of the ribs, the skin has a twist in it from one end >to the >other. >This is a common design practice in homebults, but it doesn't make it >correct. > >Jim Ayers >Least Drag(at)aol.com >Thousand Oaks, Ca. > > > > Jim, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, but I'm not so sure that a twist in the skin is causing the problem (not entirely any way). Because the ribs have different tapper angles... I agree that if they where perpendicular to the trailing edge, then what you say would be so. But they are not 90 degrees to the trailing edge, and they are different lengths on the cord line so it is possible they are not flat after assembled. The reason I replied to your post was to mention some other things that can cause the oil canning on control surfaces. If the rib flanges are not adjusted to the correct angle to mate flush with the skin it will attempt to pull the skin to match the rib (the rib material is heavier than the skin, particularly the .016 that is on RV-3,4,and 6's) Since the tail surfaces do taper (particularly the rudder) the rib flanges have to be adjusted to something other than 90 deg. Another thing that can cause a problem is after finishing the metal work you install the fiberglass tips. they sometimes don't lay flush on the skins or flanges that have been riveted on so that when you install the blind rivets it pulls the flanges out of line which then tweaks the skin. And we all know that tweaked skins can cause oil cans. Hope this is also of some help. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
<3.0.3.32.19980520081353.00c8951c(at)manta.nosc.mil>
From: rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr)
Mike: I'm having a little trouble visualizing this but is it possible that you have the longerons inside the weldment? The longerons should be on the outside such that the skin when installed will transition smoothly from the longeron to the firewall flange. Regards, Bill, N66WD S.W. Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: DC Thermal Cabin Heaters
Date: May 20, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 4:45 PM Subject: RV-List: DC Thermal Cabin Heaters > >Has anyone tried the STC'd, in-cabin, instant infra-red forced air heaters >sold by DC Thermal, Inc. >. The 12 volt 35 amp 497 Watt version costs $189 and puts out 1,696 BTU's >at 85 cubic feet per minute. All the hardware for an exhaust pipe setup >looks like it will run between $200 - $220. Minimal homepage at >www.dcthermal.qpg.com 281-486-0507 > >Ross Mickey >6A Finishing Kit- Oregon > I am very interested as well, but to augment the muff heaters -- I like winter flying, night flying included. The 497 W is achieved at 14.2 V, not 12V. At 75% power from a 150 HP engine I estimate the power out the exhaust to be about 17 kW (for 60% Carnot efficiency and one half of heat to exhaust, one half to cylinders and other non-exhaust). You need only capture 3% of that with the heat muff(s) to equal the 497W, so I suspect the 35A heater will not be enough in cold (20F OAT) conditions. I'd like to hear from someone who has done a more rigorous calculation! Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Barrington, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
PINK?????YUK!!!!!I HEAR EVEN ITS OIL IS PINK!!!!! IT JUST BETTER BE FAST OR THE PANTHER WILL BE FISH FOOD GUESS WHATS COMIN DOWN THE LINE DOUGIE!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: cooloing the mags
Does somebody out there have a really good way to cool the mags? Tony B. seems very adamant about doing this. While we are at it who's cooling the gascolator and fuel pump? It was 101 degree's here in Tallahassee today. I was thinking about vapor lock, and the problems it could cause. I was hoping someone has already given some thought to this and had come up with a good plan. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97 <Rvator97(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: Hobbs time or tach time?
Mark, Is yours a new/ or 0 - time rebuilt engine? My rebuilt motor ran fairly hot( 210-220 f) until about 25 hours; then cooled down sustantially. Flew her over four hours last Sunday with climbs to 10,500 ft.; oil temp never exceeded 200 F. Walt. RV-6A N79WH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: Andair fuel valve.
<< Is there anyone out there who knows of a U.K. source for the Andair fuel valve >> Huh? I thought Andair was based in Britain. Check their website. It's listed in the Yeller Pages on the net. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: cooloing the mags
>Does somebody out there have a really good way to cool the mags? Many certified ships have "blast tubes" from the aft baffles aimed at the mags. Think 3/4" EMT conduit.... >Tony B. seems very adamant about doing this. So are the mag manufacturers! >While we are at it who's cooling the gascolator and fuel pump? Many certified ships have "collars" around the FP and Gascolator with small SCAT running to them. 1" on some 2" on others. Most are simply a 0.025" AL cylinder of rolled sheet with oversize holes for each hose to go in or out. This is connected to the SCAT off an aft baffle. Saw one once at OSH on an EZ which combined gascoltor mounting bracket and cooling shroud all in one piece. >It was 101 degree's here in Tallahassee today. I was thinking about >vapor lock, and the problems it could cause. I was hoping someone >has already given some thought to this and had come up with a >good plan. >Craig Hiers >RV-4 N143CH >Tallahassee,FL. Orange Aeroquip Fire Sleeve on all exposed hoses in the engine compartment is a good way to reduce heat soak and vapor lock potential for fuel and increase useful life on other hoses. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: DC Thermal Cabin Heaters
Date: May 20, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 6:47 PM Subject: RV-List: DC Thermal Cabin Heaters > >Has anyone tried the STC'd, in-cabin, instant infra-red forced air heaters >sold by DC Thermal, Inc. >Ross Mickey >6A Finishing Kit- Oregon > >I found the heater to be a fair hand warmer at best in my RV-4. Due to alternator output (35 amp) I was only able to run 2 of the 3 coils but I don't think all 3 would be much of an improvement. I don't have any cockpit insulation which certainly didn't help. An attractive idea but didn't work for me. Did I mention mine is for sale at an attractive price? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Oilcanning, final verdict? Oops!
Well, after reading scott's post I think I know what caused my problem. After riveting my elevator, I noticed that my rib flanges were not quite 90deg. The skin made kind of a ski slope effect at either end of the elevator. I put a hand seamer to them, skin and all, and bent them inline so the skin laid nice and flat. I noticed the oilcanning after this. I should have known better, but I guess I'm still learning. Oops. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe > Another thing that can cause a problem is after finishing the metal work > you install the fiberglass tips. they sometimes don't lay flush on the > skins or flanges that have been riveted on so that when you install the > blind rivets it pulls the flanges out of line which then tweaks the skin. > And we all know that tweaked skins can cause oil cans. > > Hope this is also of some help. > > Scott McDaniels ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: Oilcanning
Hi Gerald Oilcanning is a term used for a condition where if you press on an area of aluminum skin, for example on a control surface, and an area next to where you are pressing pops up. It is the result of having the skin in compression, where it is not tight. On the control surfaces, the main way to prevent it is to ensure that your fixtures on which you build them are aligned properly so as to not build in a twist to the surface. I am still pondering why I have gotten some in one elevator, but that is another story. It has been suggested that due to the empenage control surfaces using .016 skins, one must be very careful how you handle them, such as removing the protective vinal. Since the skins are so thin, one can easily distort them. Once we move on to the wings, a good way to prevent oilcanning is to heat the skins prior to drilling and riveting. This will cause the skin to expand, but not the skeleton beneath. When the skin cools, it will contract and tighten up. Hope this clears things up for you. Regards, ' Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 Left Elevator Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy fit at rear
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 20, 1998
> >Hi all, > >I'm having trouble getting my canopy frame below the skin at the rear. > I assume >it must be below the level of the F6112 - if it is it looks like the >rear skirts >will fit easily. Am I right? > >One thing I did to get it lower was replace the UHMW block with a >roller and two >"L" shaped keepers. Works with little finger. Anyone see problems I >might >later face with this setup? > >Is the canopy is pushed upwards during flight or downwards? If the >inflight >loads are upwards and strong then my roller deal might be unsafe. > > >Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport >halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC > > The aerodynamic loads on the RV canopys are generally upwards at the rear. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 20, 1998
Subject: Re: cooling mags and more
<< Does somebody out there have a really good way to cool the mags? Tony B. seems very adamant about doing this.>> The ribbed 5/8" hoses that Van's sells are good and light for this purpose. << While we are at it who's cooling the gascolator and fuel pump?>> I'm cooling the gascolator, but not the pump. I used 1" SCAT tubing to a s/s shroud. I have placed Tempilabels on various things within the new O-360 engine compartment on my 6A and I keep my oil temp at about 185F with a cockpit adjustable oil cooler door. These are the max temps I have gotten in about 60 hrs of flying (and heat soaking post-flight on the ramp) in 75F max ambient air. Gascolator shroud 170F, Fuel pump bottom cover 150F, Rocker Covers (with the non-stock thick silicone gaskets installed) 250F, Rear Baffle 180F and Upper Engine Crankcase 210F. This gives a good idea of the temp distribution on things and if the deltaTs track roughly the same offset in hotter ambient conditions, the gascolator might be able to boil water in Phoenix. I'll put some Tempilabels on the mags next chance I get and let the list know the temps. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Date: May 20, 1998
. I would > highly reccommend nose or tail art and a name for your bird! My RV is named..."BLEW BYOU"...........Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Hi All, My RV-3 is named the Maroon Marauder. As if you didn't already know that. My daughter came up with that name. What's weird is a friend of mine (remember Rocky with the Porsche Red IO-320 power RV-3) suggested I call it the Maroon Goon. I knew that name was used for a Turner racer in the thirties. The weird part is that when Rocky suggested Maroon Goon, I had the Lycoming O-290 engine in the RV-3. Now I have the LOM four cylinder in-line engine in my RV-3, and my RV-3 actually resembles the Turner racer with the in-line Menasco engine. Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Hobbs time or tach time?
<< one hour of hobbs, or flight time, will not put a full hour on the tach. >> You can ask your friendly local FAA man, but I believe they will accept "Hobbs" time, and if so, that's what I'd go with. Regards Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
<< "Li'l Huzzy". Says I spend more time with that "Li'l Huzzy" than I do with her!! >> Wives are like that. They just don't understand what makes us tick, do they? Regards Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM The "Junkyard Dog" RV-4, Ser. No. 4239 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Jeremy William Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Your RV in KITPLANES
The September issue of KITPLANES will feature the annual overflow of the regular "Completions" column. If you haven't sent KITPLANES a photo and brief write-up of your completed RV, make sure to do so by June 10th! KITPLANES is adding more pages to the September issue and will print all reasonable submissions, this should include you! In addition to seeing your RV in print, you will also be entered in a contest to win a Bendix-King KLX-100 GPScom worth about $1400. If you played PowerBall and didn't win, you'll have much better odds here! Details: "Completions" letters may be typed or even hand-written, but e-mail entries cannot be accepted. KITPLANES also needs a single good sharp color print or slide (no digital images) that they will keep. Air-to-air photos are not required nor encouraged. Contact KITPLANES for more information. Your submission must be received by KITPLANES by June 10th--send to: KITPLANES "Completions" 8745 Aero Drive, Ste. 105 San Diego, CA 92123 (Neither I nor Van's Aircraft, Inc. are associated with the above, we are just providing the information for your information...) ~Jeremy Portland, Oregon jwb@europa.com | http:/lhotse.up.edu/~jbenedic | (503) 514-3100 vm/pager Memorial Day at SF Bay?!? Please weather, cooperate this time! 3 weeks of 50 degrees, overcast and drizzle is enough!!! Let there be SUN!!!! Disclaimer: I speak for no one, not even myself. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
My RV-4 was named RaVen, painted all black with the outline of abirds feathers on the wings. I sure got lots of attention. Tom Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: : Names for RV's
From: wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen)
While building, I spent 40+ Hrs/week in the garage (in addition to a full time job!). Now that my RV-6A is flying, my wife says that I spend all my free time in it. She picked the N number N925RV because it's "Nine to five RV" for me! Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV (Working on second RV-6A - Chevy Powered!) wstucklen1(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil canning vs.Elevator skin twist
Hi Listers, Van's manual defines exactly how much twist is built into the elevator skins on the RV-4 and RV-6, so the evelator will be straight. If the elevator skin was built flat, it would set on a flat surface. However, if you build the elevator on a flat surface, Van's manual states that you should use a shim under the tip end of the spar. This means that the root end of the spar, root TE and tip TE are all setting on a flat surface, and the tip end of the spar is shimmed up to align the two rib centerlines. If the same amount of shim is required when the elevator is turned over, then the elevator is straight. However, both elevator skins are twisted, slightly. Van's manual calls for a shim on the RV-6 of 1/16", and a shim on the RV-4 of 3/32". Not very much, really. But a skin twist, nevertheless. But the point I was trying to make is still valid. If you have an assembly that wants to oil can, you use a technique that will reduce, or even eliminate, the problem. By riveting the ends of the elevator skin to the spar, you have contained any oil canning between the rivets. By adding a "center" rivet, you have created twice as many areas which have half as much oil canning. And you just continue to add "center" rivets, doubling the number of areas with half the oil canning, each time. A modification of this technique would be used if there was an obvious high spot between a skin and the frame (such as the edge of the bottom or top fuselage skin along the longeron). You just install the third rivet at the high point, instead of the "center" point. Then you use "center" rivets in each of the unequal length areas remaining. Again, try this with clecos to see what it does. BTW, quite trying to defend Van's design. IMHO, Richard Van Grunsven is the best aircraft designer around. (Gee, I hope I spelled Van's name correctly. Otherwise, some lister is going to flame me for spelling errors.) :-) Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder Thousand Oaks, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
> > << This *has* given me an idea for the name of my RV......the Tinman, > > since it comes with its own oilcan! >> > > > > Well my wife has aptly named my RV-4 "the Mistress" becuase the airplane gets > > all my love and attention (or so she says) > > > > Regards Merle (flyin' in '99 ??) Miller > RV'ers > > My wife named mine "Li'l Huzzy". Says I spend more time with that "Li'l > Huzzy" than I do with her!! > Jerry Calvert > Edmond Ok -6a > We have an RV-4 flying here in Oregon that has written on the side of it "Divorce One." -- Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Weight Penalty
SCOTT, just the emp at this point SCOTT REVIERE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Ya know, I was thinking of putting....."Check Six!" on the side of my bird. Somehow, I think that some of the other fellas' ideas relating to the a/c competing with the wife unit seems more appropriate.... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: cooloing the mags
We use that blue ribbed plastic conduit from Home Depot in a 7/8" dia. If you would take a heat gun to the stuff, you can soften the end, and get it to fit tightly in the appropraitely sized hole when it cools. A dab of RTV will keep the tube from rotating. You should also use the heat gun the shape the tube, so it will point at the mag coil area. I don't know if the black tubing from Van's has the same properties.... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
SORRY TO INFORM YOU, PINK PANTHER IS ALREADY FLYING ON A RV ON THE INTERNET THERE ARE PICTURES OF IT SCOTT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Mine will be named " SLIPPERY" because of the paint scheme i came up with. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil canning vs.Elevator skin twist
<< Hi Listers, Van's manual defines exactly how much twist is built into the elevator skins on the RV-4 and RV-6, so the evelator will be straight. If the elevator skin was built flat, it would set on a flat surface. Correct! But it's not, so it won't. Imagine two triangles superimposed on each other. These triangles have the same dimensions as the tip and bottom ribs of the rudder (or the elevator). The base and side lengths are different, but not enough to keep the long sides parallel (re: the rudder/elev ribs). In other words, the two triangles are not scaled drawings of each other. Thus, the plane that would form the skin would have to have a slight twist in it. snip But the point I was trying to make is still valid. If you have an assembly that wants to oil can, you use a technique that will reduce, or even eliminate, the problem. By riveting the ends of the elevator skin to the spar, you have contained any oil canning between the rivets. By adding a "center" rivet, you have created twice as many areas which have half as much oil canning. And you just continue to add "center" rivets, doubling the number of areas with half the oil canning, each time. I used this excellent explanation on one of my helpers yesterday, as he was assembling a -8 rudder. He immediately understood what I had been trying to communicate for the last few years- Thanks, Jim, for the help! BTW- the technique works, and it has other applications, too. snip BTW, quite trying to defend Van's design. IMHO, Richard Van Grunsven is the best aircraft designer around. snip Amen, altho Kelly Johnson (SR-71) and Kurt Tank (FW-190) did a pretty good jobs, too. BTW- Mr John Harmon showed that even a great design can be improved ... Jim Ayers Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Ed Komoroski's wife came up with a great name for his Red and Yellow -4. "Just 4 Play". Emphasize the words as you like. My -6 is called "Malia's Misery". Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Sensinich Prop and Spinner
I have heard thru the grapevine that Sensinich has come out with a long, sleek metal spinner to fit the fixed pitch metal props they make. Anybody know anything about this? I am looking to install a chrome plated spinner on my RV-8, and so will need to go with metal of course. Any leads on this? Von Alexander RV-8#544 Getting ready to install fuse skins ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: eprth(at)kneehill.com (Tim Houle)
Subject: FLY-IN
Alberta/BC/Saskatchewan Listers, Anyone attending the Camrose fly-in on the 31st of May? I'm in the building process and am planning on going to Camrose and would like to see some RV's there if any one is going. Tim Houle RV6 empennage *************************** Tim Houle email: eprth(at)kneehill.com *************************** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RV-4 fuse jigging
William R. Davis Jr wrote: > 3, look on Dwg. #30 upper R.H. ccorner, sectionB-B'. It says that the > longeron is to be notched to clear the F-411 vertical bars. The lower > longeron is left intact however and the bottoms of the bars are notched My first impulse was this has to be incorrect as you do not want to notch those bars, but on checking the drawing I find he is right. It shows the top longerons notched but at the bottom the bars are notched. I missed that on the drawing (which really needs a notation to make it more clear) and have already notched all 4 longerons. Called Van's this morning and they say it makes no difference how you do it at the bottom, but it is important not to notch the bars at the top. -- Bob Reiff Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.execpc.com/reiff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RV-4 fuse jigging
> Now on to the next problem. On the advice of a couple of listers and a > local builder, when I assembled my firewall I went ahead and rivetted on > the WD-402/403 weldments. Now that the firewall is jigged and I'm trying > to fit the longerons, the angle on WD-402s is wrong. Mine were off a considerable amount also. The longerons from the firewall weldments were about 2" out of proper location at F404. Called Van's and suggested they adjust the fixture they use for welding these parts. They said just bend the longerons to make them fit. -- Bob Reiff Reiff Preheat Systems http://www.execpc.com/reiff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MoeJoe" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Oil canning vs.Elevator skin twist
Date: May 21, 1998
I'm going to try this method when I rivet my left elevator. My question is, when do I rivet the skin to the end ribs? Do I do these first or last? Moe > > > But the point I was trying to make is still valid. If you have an assembly > that wants to oil can, you use a technique that will reduce, or even > eliminate, the problem. > > By riveting the ends of the elevator skin to the spar, you have contained any > oil canning between the rivets. By adding a "center" rivet, you have created > twice as many areas which have half as much oil canning. And you just > continue to add "center" rivets, doubling the number of areas with half the > oil canning, each time. > > A modification of this technique would be used if there was an obvious high > spot between a skin and the frame (such as the edge of the bottom or top > fuselage skin along the longeron). You just install the third rivet at the > high point, instead of the "center" point. Then you use "center" rivets in > each of the unequal length areas remaining. > > Again, try this with clecos to see what it does. > > BTW, quite trying to defend Van's design. IMHO, Richard Van Grunsven is the > best aircraft designer around. > (Gee, I hope I spelled Van's name correctly. Otherwise, some lister is going > to flame me for spelling errors.) :-) > > Jim Ayers > Least Drag(at)aol.com > RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder > Thousand Oaks, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 20, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Sensinich Prop and Spinner
>I have heard thru the grapevine that Sensinich has come out with a long, sleek >metal spinner to fit the fixed pitch metal props they make. Anybody know >anything about this? I am looking to install a chrome plated spinner on my >RV-8, and so will need to go with metal of course. Any leads on this? >Von Alexander >RV-8#544 Getting ready to install fuse skins Yes, they have metal spinners for their metal props. It's even called an "RV-6 Spinner kit". Is a RV-8 spinner identical to a RV6 spinner?? All details on their web-site, and I believe they are only available from the factory. I have one, and it's nicely made, all trimmed, pre-drilled, nutplates mounted and alodined. Just ready to fit and go. I'm not sure if I would describe it as long and sleek though, it's only slightly 'sharper' than Vans glass spinner. Gil (check their web site) Alexander RV6A, #20701, tail details Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
<3.0.3.32.19980520081353.00c8951c(at)manta.nosc.mil> Bill, Thanks for the response. I have the longerons located correctly (got that question answered a couple of weeks ago). Let me try to clarify the problem. The WD-402 is welded together such that the arm that projects out from the firewall should nest with the longeron. This means the arm should be angled slightly out and slightly up (or down as installed in the jig). My weldments have the correct out angle but the up angle is too shallow so if I clamp the longeron to the weldment the longeron is bowed between the firewall and the F-404 when viewed from the side. I spoke to Tom at Vans and he said that this is a common problem. He recommended that I do just that, force the longeron into position and accept the bow in the longerons. I dont like that approach and think I have decided to machine a wedge shaped shim to fill the gap. Another lister said that he took a hacksaw to the weldment arm and split it along the bend to form seperate horizontal and vertical tabs to which the longeron is attached. Apparently the old versions of the weldments came from Vans this way. I'm still considering this approach. Thanks again, Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >Mike: > > >I'm having a little trouble visualizing this but is it possible that you >have the longerons inside the weldment? >Regards, Bill, N66WD S.W. Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's
Date: May 21, 1998
> >IT JUST BETTER BE FAST OR THE PANTHER WILL BE FISH FOOD > >GUESS WHATS COMIN DOWN THE LINE DOUGIE!!! > You all need to know that Larry flies a Mustang and P-40, You all know the P-40 has shark teeth. What you may not know is that the great "Whale Capt" (note the humble handle he uses....) lives in the land of Red Tailed airliners and fishermen. (read minnesota). Do you suppose this new -8 he is building will have Walleye teeth on the nose.......... Just remember Larry, Cats like fish for lunch! Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com http://www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: cooloing the mags
Craig, I use blast air on the mags, eng driven fuel pump and elect boost pump. IT is easy to do and I dont know of any one who suffers on cylinder head temp by using air off the back baffle. I wish I could get my eng to run hotter!!! It is free,, easy and who knows when it might save your butt. I used 5/8 scat tube over 5/8 tube which has a flange welded to it for attachment. Stewart RV4 273sb close and then ground a taper on the aft edge of the plexi wherever it was high. I think it's better to be a little high and wide than it is to be low and narrow, since you can taper the plexi and/or pull the fairing in while you're drilling/riveting. > One thing I did to get it lower was replace the UHMW block with a roller > and two "L" shaped keepers. Works with little finger. Anyone see problems > I might later face with this setup? Sounds like a good solution! I'd like to see a drawing of this. Is it adjustible? I went through about 8 of those little UHMV blocks before I was happy with mine. I don't know if others had to do this but I would recommend buying a bunch of them before you start. A little bit off here and the thing will stick and be a real pain. Randall Henderson (finish/engine) Portland, OR randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: nfrance(at)ns1.avnet.co.uk (NEIL FRANCE)
Subject: Re: Andair fuel valve.
> >Huh? I thought Andair was based in Britain. Correct, but they don't answer email, can't find a phone number for them, and their website just refers to Chief Aircraft inc. or Aircraft Spruce, I just thought there might be a quicker/ cheaper way. Neil. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil canning vs.Elevator skin twist
<< My question is, when do I rivet the skin to the end ribs? Do I do these first or last? >> We did ours last. Make sure the rudder or elev is still in the jig when you start this, and that your v-blocks are aligned v closely. You can slide one end or the other out a bit to get your squeezer at the rivets. Out of 3 we've done in the last two days, one has a slight can in it, before riveting. As I'm still waiting for the new R410PP's for two of 'em (one is finished), so I'll report how that goes after the parts arrive. It looks like a bit of squeezing on the trailing edge will cure the canning, along with the RTV blob at the stiffener ends. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: cooling the mags
RVer273sb wrote: > > Craig, > I use blast air on the mags, eng driven fuel pump and elect > boost pump. > IT is easy to do and I dont know of any one who suffers on > cylinder > head temp by using air off the back baffle. I wish I could get > my eng to > run hotter!!! It is free,, easy and who knows when it might > save your > butt. I used 5/8 scat tube over 5/8 tube which has a flange > welded to it > for attachment. > Concerning the "blast cooling of the mags"..Since the mags are > securely bolted to the > accessory case/engine case, I don't see how one could cool the mags > appreciably do to the large mass of hot metal to which they are connected. It seems to me that whatever the engine case temperature is, that is what the mag temperature would be. Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage, ready to skin Cupertino, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Subject: flight over populated areas
Date: May 21, 1998
I was reading the FAR's last night (I had trouble sleeping) and read the limitations section on planes with experimental certificates. If I'm reading it right it says that without some special documentation I won't be able to fly over densely populated areas in my RV. Is that true? I'm curious if anyone has heard of that being enforced or addressed during their certificaiton process. Obviously there are thousands of people flying overhead in experimentals all the time so I must be missing something. Thanks, -Mike RV8 #80047 perpetually rigging left wing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: about those harnesses
dear rv'ers a few weeks back everyone was talking about light weight titanum harnesses, i ordered a five point set for my dune buggy and today they arived. not titanum and 3" wide belts weighed 3 pounds apiece. does anyone know the weight of the titanum harness and the belt width? scott wingin it in tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Shaftela <Shaftela(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 Tank Mis-match
just a sugestion- see if the working head of the rivets on the tank could be interfering. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au>
Subject: Jon's seat
Date: May 22, 1998
Michael and listers, If anyone is having trouble getting through to Jon Johanson, please respond to me off the list, and I will pass it on.Michael I have passed on your request. Jon has received a lot of e-mails,on his seats, but he moves around a lot, and sometimes his forwarding mail box has a "electronic brain fart" or some other orgasmatronic event, and nothing gets through.I am working hard to try and get a web page (some guys on the list have set a very high standard to follow) up and running, so you can see what it looks like. Those that said G'Day to Jon at Oshkosh, its the same seat. Ken Glover Newcastle OZ through to Jon Johanson, please respond to me off the list, and I will pass it on.Michael I have passed on your request. Jon has received a lot of e-mails,on his seats, but he moves around a lot, and sometimes his forwarding mail box has a "electronic brain fart" or some other orgasmatronic event, and nothing gets through.I am working hard to try and get a web page (some guys on the list have set a very high standard to follow) up and running, so you can see what it looks like. Those that said G'Day to Jon at Oshkosh, its the same ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: flight over populated areas
Michael Angiulo wrote: > I was reading the FAR's last night (I had trouble sleeping) and read the > limitations section on planes with experimental certificates. If I'm > reading it right it says that without some special documentation I won't be > able to fly over densely populated areas in my RV. Is that true? I'm > RV8 #80047 perpetually rigging left wing > Short answer: don't worry about it too much. Long answer: if you are anywhere near a densely populated area, odds are you will have to talk to ATC. If it's convenient for them, they will route you over anything they please. Takeoffs & landings are excepted from the rule, so you can land anywhere the factory guys can. At least that's been my experience. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karl Ahamer" <ascot(at)hinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy fit at rear
Date: May 22, 1998
hi everyone this is how I "drilled"the holes in the two UHMV blocks for the sliding canopy: I heatet the fingers of the frame with a gas torch untill the glow darkred.then slide them into the block bit by bit which then creates a hole which fits exactly.you have to do this many times to reheat the finger and also to cool the block down with compressed air so it doesn't melt away.it's really a two person job and it worked for me first go.make sure not to inhale the smoke !!!!!wear a mask in a good ventilated area.the trick is realy to do it in small steps......and keep the block cool. I also made the rear scirt 666 out of two pices which worked well thought I let you know this alternative method..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary E. Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Sensenich metal prop for O-360 question & RV8 WINGS FOR SALE
Date: May 21, 1998
I was checking out the web page for the new Sensenich metal prop for the 180hp 0-360 and the performance numbers looked outstanding. I may be all wet but how much better will a variable pitch prop be and is it worth going to a V.P. prop with all the added weight and expense when this prop seems to perform so well. I solicit your comments and observations from those RVers that have experience in this area. By the way I have a set of RV8 wings and center section for sale, about 75% complete, I have decided to go with the Quick Build kit since I have more money than time. Price is $3000 for listers. I just submitted an ad in trade a plane price there is $3250. Ph: (760) 930-9208 Gary Rush RV8 80352 Tail complete, awaiting QB kit Carlsbad, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Weight Penalty
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 21, 1998
> >SCOTT, >just the emp at this point >SCOTT REVIERE > > > > With that being the case then I would do the following if it were me. Decide whether you plan to us a fixed pitch prop (especially on a tail dragger RV). If you are then I would strip it and start over. If I was planning to for sure use a constant speed prop and I decided that I was more willing to carry around the extra weight than I was to strip it, then I would wet sand the whole thing and shoot one more light gloss coat on it and forget it. My suggestion for the rest of the airplane is that you don't fill rivets. It is still a metal airplane know matter what you do to it, and even with rivets filled you will still have skin lap joints that show, etc. If you still like the idea of some what hiding the rivets one thing that you can do is fill with primer. When priming for finish paint first make a couple of narrow wet passes on the rivet lines. Then prime the whole surface. After its dry, (carefully) wet sand over the rivet lines using 400 wet/dry and a sanding block without sanding all the way through the primer. When painted the rivets will be nearly invisible (assuming you had reasonably good quality riveting to start with, as this wont hide dent, smiles, etc.). Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Salvage Bidding
Has anyone got any information on bidding and/or dealing with insurance companies on damaged or salvage aircraft. I'd like to bid on a couple of wrecks to salvage out panels and hardware. Ed Cole Cupertino, CA RV6A Fuselage..ready for skinning! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy fit at rear
Karl Ahamer wrote: > > hi everyone > this is how I "drilled"the holes in the two UHMV blocks for the > sliding > canopy: > I heatet the fingers of the frame with a gas torch untill the glow > darkred.then slide them > into the block bit by bit which then creates a hole which fits > exactly.you > have to do > this many times to reheat the finger and also to cool the block down > with > compressed air so it doesn't melt away.it's really a two person job > and it > worked for me first go.make sure not to inhale the smoke !!!!!wear a > mask > in a good ventilated area.the trick is realy > to do it in small steps......and keep the block cool. > I also made the rear scirt 666 out of two pices which worked well > thought I let you know this alternative method..... > Another method that I suggested to a fellow builder was to temporarily replace the UHMW blocks with a clay block the same dimension and slide the pins into the clay to note the angle of entry. Ed Cole Cupertino, CA RV6A Fuselage...ready to skin! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil canning vs.Elevator skin twist
I'm going to try this method when I rivet my left elevator. My question is, when do I rivet the skin to the end ribs? Do I do these first or last? Moe >> Hi Listers, The basic concept is to start with each end, and then add the "center" rivets. The tip rib is part of the elevator spar rivet pattern, so this is one of the end rivets. The other end rivet is on the root end of the elevator spar. The root rib is not part of the elevator spar rivet pattern. However, when you rivet the skin to the root rib, you should again start at each end of the rib and then add the "center" rivets. This also applies to the tip rib, except you have already installed one of the end rivets for the tip rib at the elevator spar. Hope this helps get the basic concept across. It's not really to critical about the deals. Just remember, if the skin stands off of the spar/rib/frame, install cleco's in the same pattern as you are going to rivet the skin down, to verify that the can will go away. Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 fuse jigging
<3.0.3.32.19980521084620.00b92424(at)manta.nosc.mil>
From: rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr)
Hi Mike, Sorry for being so dense, I understand your situation now, It is true that the older 4's had a "split finger" arangement on these weldments. I believe that the best solution would be to hack saw them apart and then bend to suit unless you have access to a milling machine and can make a tapered shim. I definitly would not force a bow into the longeron. Got to "unsubscribe" for a week or so as the wife and I are taking 66WD up to NJ for some family and friends visiting. Best regards, Bill, S.W. FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Names for RV's / "My Sanity"
"My Sanity" is in the paint shop and I hope to have the name painted on before Oshkosh. I started building "My Sanity" after getting separated from my first wife. I met my second wife while I was finishing the wings. Did some fuselage work while married. Jumped into the project with both feet after separating from the second wife. The first wife cost me one house, 3 rental properties, and a car. The airplane helped me keep my sanity through all this. The second divorce was not as hard. She wanted half the plane and all of everythig else. I had receipts to show that I only spent $1,500 US during the time we were married on the plane. She got the house with payments, I got my S-10 with payments and the RV-6 parts that were paid for. Great trade. :-) Are you starting to see how this airplane has allowed me to keep my sanity and why it is named "My Sanity"? Over 100 hours of flying in 8 months and I can say the RV-6 is more fun than any (all) of my ex-wives. == Gary A. Sobek RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy fit at rear
Karl wrote: "this is how I "drilled"the holes in the two UHMV blocks for the sliding canopy: I heatet the fingers of the frame with a gas torch untill the glow darkred.then slide them into the block bit by bit " Has anyone tried casting a block using fiberglass and resin, or bondo or JBWeld or whatever? Drilling them is pretty weird. Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: cooloing the mags
>Does somebody out there have a really good way to cool the mags? >While we are at it who's cooling the gascolator and fuel pump? >Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL. Craig, I used the ribbed, black conduit that Van's supplies. I drilled a couple of holes on the rear baffle and tie wrapped the ends of the tubing so they would stay pointed at the mags. I used the same conduit for the alternator blast tube and to direct air to a cooling shroud that I built around my gascolator. For the engine driven fuel pump, I used a shroud off of a Cherokee 140 (150 hp Lycoming) fuel pump. This shroud utilizes 2" scat tube. No vapor lock problems in 415 hours of burning 100 LL. Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)MCI2000.com>
Subject: Electronic Compasses
Does anyone have experience with the digital marine compasses that sell for about $100? They use a flux gate apparently. Alex Peterson Maple Grove MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)startext.net>
Subject: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
Listers, Where is the best location for an OAT probe for RV-6A? The other end connects to my EIS but no firm recommendation is made as the location of the probe. Also, I cannot find the F453A (does it have another part number?) clevis for my manual elevator trim connect to the trim tab. I suspect it was in a bag attached to the trim cable and I've misplaced the bag, correct? Am I the only one that cannot find everything immediately?! Thanks for any help... Will Cretsinger, Arlington TX RV-6A Instrument panel and fiberglass ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: "Larry.K.Daudt" <B747400(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Keep Dialog Polite and Respectful...
Just kidding Dougie!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
>I was checking out the web page for the new Sensenich metal prop for the >180hp 0-360 and the performance numbers looked outstanding. I may be all >wet but how much better will a variable pitch prop be and is it worth going >to a V.P. prop with all the added weight and expense when this prop seems to >perform so well. > >I solicit your comments and observations from those RVers that have >experience in this area. >Gary Rush >RV8 80352 A number of years ago Van did a back to back comparison of several wood props from various well known prop makers, and also a C/S prop all in one day on the proto-type RV-6. Scott McD. or other Van connected individuals may remember which issue of Kit Planes or Sport Aviation it was in. The tests were *VERY* enlightening. I recommend the back issue to anyone who is trying to decide what to do about prop on their RV. Those who have already decided would likely not be swayed, so you can just ignore this. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: flight over populated areas
>> I was reading the FAR's last night (I had trouble sleeping) and read the >> limitations section on planes with experimental certificates. If I'm >> reading it right it says that without some special documentation I won't be >> able to fly over densely populated areas in my RV. Is that true? I'm >> RV8 #80047 perpetually rigging left wing > > Short answer: don't worry about it too much. > >Long answer: if you are anywhere near a densely populated area, odds are you >will have to talk to ATC. If it's convenient for them, they will route you over >anything they please. Takeoffs & landings are excepted from the rule, so you can >land anywhere the factory guys can. At least that's been my experience. >Charlie The EAA made a good point on this some years ago. In X-C flying *ANY* area flown over is for the purpose of T/O or Landing. You are either taking off from the departure airport, or you are enroute to landing at the destination. The FAA seems to have followed this logic in "enforcing" the "no flight over densely populated areas" rule. If you are not hot dogging and acting irresponsible (buzzing ground targets) you should get no notice from the FAA. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: fit of the F 604 in 6A
Date: May 21, 1998
I am trying to fit the F604. I got the lower & angled stiffeners almost done. Will have to un clamp & file some more. I got to looking at the rivet patterns & the wd 603 weldments shows 5 rivets ( no call out on the Dwg) in the side of the lower longeron which comes out about 3/4 spacing. The skin rivet Dwg calls out 1.25 inch spacing. I want the spacing to look equal. Should the rivets in all the weldments be of closer spacing? I got a bunch of clamps holding everything together and can't decide where to start drilling. Should I lay out all the spacing & drill or just drill key holes to hold everything for now. Georges vedio made it all look so easy, I feel like a big Dummy tonight. If I go ahead a layout my pattern & drill it I could back drill through the skin later. I started with a 2D distance from the edge, then devided the distance between the ends by four to get the spacing . I ended up with the ends being to close to the edge. Based on the size of rivet, What should be the edge distance?? How do I line up the lower longeron & f 6101 super gusset at the bottom of the F-604? Should I use a straigt egde from the 601 or the 605? Don Jordan ~ N76DJ ~ 6A-fuselage donspawn(at)juno.com ~ Arlington, Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Re: RV Names
I remember seeing the name "Miss Appropriated Funds" on some plane somewhere (a racer I think). Also "Miss Alignment", "Miss Guided", "Miss Fire", "Miss Fit". It's endless... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
From: Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: NAPA 7220 Primer
D > Dare I ask if anyone else has used Veriprime and SW/NAPA and how they > compared? > > Dave Lundquist Dave, Several months ago I called Dupont "Hi Performance and Imron" specialist at 800 572 1568. I want to prime the wings and tail and store in the barn. He told me if I use Veriprime I must put on a sealer or top coat as the primer alone will retain moisture. He suggested I use 824S epoxy primer leave it over the winter, then scuff prior to painting. I have been using S/W 7220 on the remaining parts. The only way I can compare the two is removing the primers with lacquer thinner. The 7220 is much more difficult to remove. Marty RV-6AQ Installing controls Erwinna, Pa. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: Sensenich metal prop for O-360 question
I was checking out the web page for the new Sensenich metal prop for the 180hp 0-360 and the performance numbers looked outstanding. I may be all wet but how much better will a variable pitch prop be and is it worth going to a V.P. prop with all the added weight and expense when this prop seems to perform so well. >> I was going to leave this one alone, since no one wants to hear about a VP prop which weights less than a metal fixed pitch. Just because the VP prop allows the engine to provide the full RPM for take- off and climb, it couldn't possible allow a shorter ground roll and a higher climb rate. And just because you can pick the RPM to run the engine for cruise, regardless of altitude and throttle setting (within reason), this couldn't affect fuel consumption cruise performance. But since I'm referring to the Ivoprop Magnum electric In-Flight djustable Prop, someone is bond to start talking about life insurance. Please make all such Email messages directly to me. As a Personal Financial Analyst for Primerica financial Services, I would be very happy to discuss your life insurance needs. :-) Gotcha :-) :-) Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Limaluk <Limaluk(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
I placed my OAT probe on my left front vertical baffle, facing the engine and about one inch behind where the cowl wraps around to meet the baffle. It gets lots of fresh prop-air. The only time it reads incorrectly is when you shut the engine down, it gets the engine heat. This has been a good place on my RV-6. E. Luke/RV-6/700 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
<< Where is the best location for an OAT probe for RV-6A? The other end connects to my EIS but no firm recommendation is made as the location of the probe. >> I installed mine in the NACA vent. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: Weight Penalty
Scott, i'm building a 6-a and plan on 180 w/ cs prop, and i think i will take your advice Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: Andair fuel valve.
> > Also any advice on obtaining or > making the stall warning device parts for U.K. approval would be > welcome. I bought a very nice stall warning system from: Don Richardson "Sharbrook", Turnhill Rd, High Ham, Langport Somerset TA10 9DF United Kingdom Price was $51 including shipping to US. Tim Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted Springfield VA http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a timrv6a(at)iname.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: fit of the F 604 in 6A
Date: May 22, 1998
Don, I can answer two parts of this. First, I backdrilled everything. There is too much small stuff under that fuselage skin and I didn't want to miss any of it when I drilled. Second, the F-6101 requires a lot of hand filing and hand fitting to go in the space between the angle reinforcing and the F-604. As I recall on mine, it did not exactly line up with anything, but did finally fit everywhere. The rivet spacing is on the plans, but takes a long time to worry out. The skin rivet drawing controls for the most part, but it gives way to specific rivet sizes and spacing call-outs on more detailed drawings. Hope this helps. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont RV-6A Fuselage still upside down in the jig with the wings on -----Original Message----- fit of the F 604 in 6A I am trying to fit the F604. I got the lower & angled stiffeners almost done. >>>>>>>>> Don Jordan ~ N76DJ ~ 6A-fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
<< << Where is the best location for an OAT probe for RV-6A? The other end connects to my EIS but no firm recommendation is made as the location of the probe. >> I installed mine in the NACA vent. -GV >> So did I. Yesterday, I climbed to 8000', and my OAT was indicating 31C, the same as it was on the ground. Huh? That can't be right. Sure enough, the air coming out of both vents still felt kinda warm, while the side of the aircraft was nice and cool. After I landed, I noticed that there's a small gap in the top cowling, just above where it sets on top of the lower cowling, and it's right in line with my naca vents. Just enought to let a little air escape from the accessory area and get sucked into the vents. I'm going to try and use some of my leftover baffle seal material and seal these up. One more little detail to take care of. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV Flying! MLaboyteau(at)aol.com Broken Arrow, Ok ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
I use the Vision Microsystems gauges. The OAT probe is only about 3/8" so Installed it in the NACA inlet for the air vent (right side). No interruption of airflow to the vent (it's like a blast tube!). Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: Salvage Bidding
> >Has anyone got any information on bidding and/or dealing with insurance >companies >on damaged or salvage aircraft. I'd like to bid on a couple of wrecks to >salvage >out panels and hardware. >Ed Cole >Cupertino, CA >RV6A Fuselage..ready for skinning! Ed, There are a couple of places You can look. http://www.acpi.org/salvage.html - AIG http://www.barnstormers.com/rebuildr.html - Loss Management/Avemco The bidding is usually a sealed bid type process. The bidding in my experience is very aggressive. All the Salvage companies seem to be working it very hard and also seem to be efficient at remarketing the parts. Get as good a description as possible of all parts and price them out. The companies do not disclose the amount of the high bid. So usually you don't know whether you were even close. I don't understand the rationale behind not disclosing the price. In my experience(automobiles) the more information available the higher the bids. Shelby in Nashville. Fuselage RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BELTED AIR <BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
You may find an error in the reading as air from the cowl inlet will flow back over that area, we ended up installing it just ahead of the com antenna aft of the canopy. we could maintain 33 degrees c to 10,000 feet in the winter belted air las vegas, nv RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
>Listers, Where is the best location for an OAT probe for RV-6A? Placed mine in the NACA vent, BUT, have not had good luck with accurate readings (reads about 10-15 deg. high). I am getting engine heat from the top cowl during flight since it has a tendency to bow out due to pressure (another good reason for an enclosed pressure chamber). The NACA is in direct trail of where the cowl bows (right above where top and bottom cowl split). I have recommended to a few builders that they put the probe on the bottom of the wing intersection fairing. The thermocouple probe wires should be long enough to reach (does everyone know you should never cut and shorted thermocouple wires?). This should be out of the way of any heat, exhaust should not be a factor. Dave RV-6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: RV Tow Bar
Somewhere I recall that someone is manufacturing and selling tow bars for RVs - can any lister remind me who was selling them? Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: John Walsh <walsh@matrix-one.com>
Subject: Re: Andair fuel valve.
> >I bought a very nice stall warning system from: > >Don Richardson >"Sharbrook", Turnhill Rd, >High Ham, Langport >Somerset TA10 9DF >United Kingdom > >Price was $51 including shipping to US. > >Tim Tim, Do you have any specifics on this system? Is it a switch like the certified systems? What kind of indicator does it use etc.. I can't find anything on it in the archive. Thanks in advance. John ( banging away in Southern New Hampshire) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
David Hudgins wrote: > I have recommended to a few builders that they put the probe on the bottom > of the wing intersection fairing. The thermocouple probe wires should be Thats where I put mine, to keep it out of the direct sun. Does it work --- no. Reads accurately on the ground in my hangar. Reads high when parked on hot asphalt (of course). In flight it reads high due to air leakage from around cowl/gear leg intersection fairings. Terry RV-6 C-GZRV Kitchener, Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: Don Hyde <hyde(at)bcl.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
At 11:54 AM 5/22/98, David Hudgins wrote: SNIP >of the wing intersection fairing. The thermocouple probe wires should be >long enough to reach (does everyone know you should never cut and shorted >thermocouple wires?). SNIP The "magic" in thermocouple wires is not in their length, but in the materials they are made of. In general, it should be OK to shorten them, but splicing ordinary wire on to extend them will introduce some inaccuracies. A thermocouple is a junction of two dissimilar metals, (called the hot junction) which when heated generates a small (millivolt) voltage. At the other end of the thermocouple wire, where it connects to the instrument, there is also a junction of dissimilar metals. This is called the cold junction. Most thermocouple-based instruments have some other temperature-measuring device such as a thermistor to measure the temperature of the cold junction (basically, the terminals at the back of the instrument) and apply a formula using that temperature and the measured voltage in order to calculate the temperature of the hot junction. If you extend the thermocouple by splicing some other kind of wire, then you form a "cold junction" somewhere other than at the back of the instrument. If this location is not at the same temperature as the one being measured at the back of the instrument, then you have introduced an error into your measurement. Anyway, most OAT instruments use either thermistors or sophisticated integrated-circuit measuring elements, which do not share this peculiarity of thermocouples, so splices are generally OK, though wire length could become a factor with some designs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu>
Subject: RV8/LeftElevator/TrimTab
Hello, I am finishing up the left elevator (wings on order) and have hit a snag. The plans call for AD3-4 flush rivets in both the LE spar (E606) and the trim tab itself (e607). Problem: Oh the HINGED sections of both the E607 and E607 spars, I can not get any bucking bar or squeezer head I have to fit in the small space without hitting the hinge. My attempt to "finesse" a rivet resulted in 2 hours of reforming a hinge section. The hinge is ooooooh so easy to hit and mess up! My proposed solution: Use MK-319-BS "pop" rivets for the entire top of the trim tab itself and for the remainder of the E606 rivets. Question: Is there a better way? My position on pop rivets is that their beauty goes up in direct proportion to the cost of the tool required to avoid using them. Regards, Vince Himsl Moscow, ID RV8/Left Elevator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com>
Subject: RV-4/6 - IO-360 experience
Mayday! Mayday! I am co-building an RV-6 and for our sins, we plan on putting an IO-360 200hp angle-valve Lycoming in the front. This is not being done out of any want for extra performance but is purely down to what was available at the time, over here in England. And yes, we do know what we are letting ourselves in for! Our regulating authority in the UK, the Popular Flying Association, is not quite so broad minded as the EAA when it comes to deviating from the plans. Whilst they will OK the engine installation they are worried about our want to put a Hartzell C/S prop on the front because of the extra weight. (They have already approved a '6 with a wooden prop and an IO-360). We desperately need anyone who has or knows of an RV-4 or RV-6 with a 200hp IO-360 on the front (especially if it has a Hartzell C/S) to let us know as much of the following as possible (any info will assist us): 1)RV type 2)Registration number 3)Engine type 4)Propeller type 5)Hours flown 6)Date of first flight 7)Contact name, address, tel no, e-mail address etc. If we can prove there are at least 2000 hours total time of RVs flying about with the big motor and prop then they will ok ours. I look forward to reading all those replies soon! Then we can get on with modifying those cowlings (made of something they call 'fibreglass' apparently....) Many thanks, in anticipation Jerry Parr RV-6 G-RVVI Fuse complete, starting on the systems.... Peterborough, England ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: flight over populated areas
The following announcement was copied from www.eaa.org web site today: EAA Efforts Lead to FAA Clarification on Homebuilt Overflight Policy May 22, 1998 EAA is pleased to report that due to EAAs efforts, FAA has clarified the ongoing issue of homebuilt flights over populated areas. That is an issue that is very important to homebuilt owners and pilots. A controversy arose in California this spring after local FAA officials there began calling homebuilt owners, saying they may be in violation of regulations by flying over congested areas. EAA worked with FAA on an almost daily basis to develop a clarification of the long-standing policy that allowed homebuilts to fly over urban areas. The FAA bulletin issued last week states that once flight testing is completed, Experimental amateur-built aircraft may operate over densely populated areas, both en route and during takeoffs and landings, and operate within congested airways. We appreciate FAAs responsiveness and thank EAA members and staff who worked to resolve this issue. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: RV Tow Bar
<< Somewhere I recall that someone is manufacturing and selling tow bars for RVs - can any lister remind me who was selling them? >> Ken Barto makes the RV-6A nose gear towbar. He's listed in the Yeller Pages. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J VanGrunsven" <rvforpla(at)pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic squeezers
Date: May 22, 1998
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Subject: Re: RV8/LeftElevator/TrimTab
A > >Question: >Is there a better way? My position on pop rivets is that their beauty goes >up in direct proportion to the cost of the tool required to avoid using them. > Yes there is a better way. You need to use a rivet squeezer with a small set to get behind the hinge eyes Tom Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV Tow Bar
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 22, 1998
> >Somewhere I recall that someone is manufacturing and selling tow bars >for RVs - can any lister remind me who was selling them? Thanks. > > > > >Don't remember his name but I believe he is list in the optional parts catalog. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 22, 1998
> >A number of years ago Van did a back to back comparison of several >wood >props from various well known prop makers, and also a C/S prop all in >one >day on the proto-type RV-6. Scott McD. or other Van connected >individuals >may remember which issue of Kit Planes or Sport Aviation it was in. > >The tests were *VERY* enlightening. I recommend the back issue to >anyone >who is trying to decide what to do about prop on their RV. Those who >have >already decided would likely not be swayed, so you can just ignore >this. > Sorry I don't remember what issue it was, but I believe it is in the 16 years of the RVator because it was reprinted (in part at least) in the newsletter. Just my 2 cents on the prop. comparison. If the performance #'s that the orig. poster was referring to were cruise speeds I would agree that their may be no point in the extra expense if that is your main focus/need for your RV. Any good quality fixed pitch prop that is optimized for best cruise performance at a given altitude will probably be very close to what a constant speed or variable pitch prop would do at that same altitude on that airplane... but that is what you are stuck with. With the constant speed you get full rated power output (assuming the pressure altitude you are at makes it available) for takeoff and the option to adjust for different operating conditions in cruise. I am not endorsing a constant speed prop as the only way to go, just providing info on a comparison. My personal feeling though would make me lean much harder towards speeding some of my airplane building money on a constant speed and maybe even do with out some of the other options and gadgets that most of us can do without if we need to. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Salvage Bidding
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 22, 1998
>>Has anyone got any information on bidding and/or dealing with >insurance >>companies >>on damaged or salvage aircraft. >The bidding is usually a sealed bid type process. The bidding in my >experience is very aggressive. All the Salvage companies seem to be >working >it very hard and also seem to be efficient at remarketing the parts. >Get as >good a description as possible of all parts and price them out. The >companies do not disclose the amount of the high bid. So usually you >don't >know whether you were even close. I don't understand the rationale >behind >not disclosing the price. In my experience(automobiles) the more >information available the higher the bids. > >Shelby in Nashville. >Fuselage RV6A > > > I agree entirely with Shelby. probably 90% of the bids go to the major salvage co. as they can afford to invest more (they will be make money on the salvage for years afterwards). I did this for 2 years and finally called one of the salvagers to buy the parts that I wanted. I missed being high bid by 36$ once against Wentworth Salvage. (The winning bidders list that was sent to me was a photo copy where the prices had been blocked out but it bled through). It is possible to do though. A friend won the bid on a storm damaged Cherokee 140 and got it for about $7000 (and he only had to go acrossed town to pick it up). The biggest problem is that you are bidding blind and if you bid aggressively enough to get one you could end up with something that (to you) is not worth what you had to pay for it. I even traveled to inspect a couple that I bid on, and I was sure glad that I did. The info provided is usually rather vague, though I found that if you call the usually provided phone # of the party that is holding/storing the salvage they are usually helpful with answering questions and giving more information. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 22, 1998
Subject: Re: Andair fuel valve.
> How about some details on this unit? Description, installation, > how does it work etc. The stall warning system I bought was originally mentioned in the April 96 issue of the RVAtor on page 16. The unit is very much like the Piper Traumahawk/Warrior/Archer/Arrow stall warning system... A little metal tab protrudes from the leading edge of the wing (instructions tell you exactly where to mount it). When the A/C is a few knots above the stall sufficient air flows from below the tab up over the top of the wing to lift the tab up. When the tab is lifted it closes a contact on the stall warning switch. The switch is connected to a stall warning horn or light (provided by the builder--I used a two tone Radio Shack horn) which activates, warning that a stall is approaching. The stall warning kit consists of the tab/switch/housing assembly, a little cover plate to go over the hole you cut in the wing (just big enough to let the tab stick out), a couple of screws, and instructions. Very simple, very light, and put together well. I think it's worth the money. I recall reading somewhere that U.S. homebuilts have a higher stall/spin accident rate than U.S. spam cans. If that's true I suspect that two contributing factors are the higher wing loading of many experimentals (not a player in the RV series) and the dearth of installed stall warning systems. I think it's well worth $51 to have a little horn that yells "hey dummy, reduce that AOA." Tim "Finishing that $%#^& baffling this weekend" Lewis Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted Springfield VA http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a timrv6a(at)iname.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 22, 1998
> >Listers, Where is the best location for an OAT probe for RV-6A? The >other end connects to my EIS but no firm recommendation is made as the > >location of the probe. > I know there has already been a lot of posts on this but my experiences differ from them all so thought I would also. The problem I have found with most of the temp sensors that I have experience with - Vision Micro Systems, Electronics International, Rocky Mountain, etc. is that they all us sensors that have bodies that can conduct heat to what is supposed to be the sensing tip of the sensor. Some of them tell you this (Rock Mountain I believe does, many of the others don't). AS a result if there much of a temp. difference between the 2 sides of the structure that you are mounting the sensor in, it will produce an error. As an example; I have found that mounting it in the NACA vent inlet on the side of the fuse is about as bad a place as any that you can use. The probe tip is in outside air but the probe body is always in cabin air which we seem to try and keep warmed to at least 70 deg. if we are able, even if it is 20 deg F. outside (BTW this is not very hard to do if you are at altitude with a clear sky and the sun shinning in that open topped canopy, a bit more difficult if you are under cloud cover). I have seen sensors in the NACA have an error of 15 deg or more. Bottom line is I have found the bottom of the wing root fairing to be the best. All of the airplanes at Van's now have the sensors at this location and it seems to work fine with no errors in temp. If you have a sensor already mounted in a location that you are getting an incorrect reading in temp you can try to insulate the back side of the sensor from the higher temp. (making the assumption that know one has yet completed an RV with air conditioning) air source in some way. Some builders have had success using the aerosol can urethane foam. You can use a paper or foam cup as a mold and mold the foam around the sensor. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: RV8/LeftElevator/TrimTab
> Problem: > Oh the HINGED sections of both the E607 and E607 spars, I can not get any > bucking bar or squeezer head I have to fit in the small space without > hitting the hinge. My attempt to "finesse" a rivet resulted in 2 hours of > reforming a hinge section. The hinge is ooooooh so easy to hit and mess up! > > My proposed solution: > Use MK-319-BS "pop" rivets for the entire top of the trim tab itself and > for the remainder of the E606 rivets. > > Question: > Is there a better way? My position on pop rivets is that their beauty goes > up in direct proportion to the cost of the tool required to avoid using them. This problem seems to keep coming up. Use your squeezer and a small bar of steel to set the AN rivets. The bar goes between the shop heads and the squeezer set. The bar is anything thick enough, yet narrow enough, to keep the set out of the way of the hinge eyes. This set "extender" concept works in many places. Alex Peterson Maple Grove MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 22, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
>AS a result if there much of a temp. difference between >the 2 sides of the structure that you are mounting the sensor in, it will >produce an error. As an example; I have found that mounting it in the >NACA vent inlet on the side of the fuse is about as bad a place as any >that you can use. The probe tip is in outside air but the probe body is >always in cabin air which we seem to try and keep warmed to at least 70 >deg. I have seen sensors in the NACA have an error of 15 deg or more. I have the Rocky Mountain Instruments uMonitor. What I did was to place the entire temp probe inside the scat tubing that is attached to the NACA duct. The temps I've seen so far seem pretty accurate. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RBusick505 <RBusick505(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4/6 - IO-360 experience
<< We desperately need anyone who has or knows of an RV-4 or RV-6 with a 200hp IO-360 on the front (especially if it has a Hartzell C/S) to let us know as much of the following as possible (any info will assist us): >> Jerry Check out Barnard Aircraft (916) 676-5601 or info(at)barnardaircraft.com or http://www.barnardaircraft.com Steve has put an IO 360 in an RV 6 with a constant speed, he also makes a cowl for the RV6 as Vans cowl will not fit without modifications. Read all about it on his web site. Good Luck Bob Busick RV-6 Fremont CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: gerric(at)agt.net
Subject: Re: DC Thermal Cabin Heaters
Just as a commnet 1 horsepower is equal to 746 watts. Frank van der Hulst wrote: > > rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com wrote: > > The 12 volt 35 amp 497 Watt version costs $189 and puts > > out 1,696 BTU's at 85 cubic feet per minute. > > 500W isn't a lot of heat, but then it doesn't have to heat a lot of > space. Probably plenty for an RV, I guess, unless it's leaky. The $189 > won't include wiring, fuse, and switch, I guess. > > > All the hardware for an exhaust pipe setup > > looks like it will run between $200 - $220. > > The installation price isn't the only consideration. > > Check whether it's on/off, or is the heat output controllable? > > You'll need a larger (heavier, more expensive) alternator to pump out > 35 Amps continuously PLUS run radios, landing lights, etc. > > Remember that the 500W is initially provided by your engine (how many > HP is 500W?). When the heater's on, your engine will need to produce > more power and will therefore use more fuel. You'll also have reduced > rate of climb and increased takeoff roll. > > OTOH, exhaust heat is essentially free (after you've paid for the > installation hardware). > > Frank. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net>
Subject: Engine ignition option ordering info?
Bernie and I are about to order the engine from Van's for our RV-6A. We're going to get an O-320, and would like to use a Lightspeed ignition for one set of plugs, and a regular magneto for the other. Has anyone else ordered this combination from Van's? Can it be ordered this way? Any comments on the relative quality of the Slick magneto that comes as standard equipment? Rob Rimbold, rimbold(at)ntr.net RV-6A, Fuselage, Treasure Coast Airpark, Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gregory Young <gyoung(at)net1.net>
Subject: RV-4/6 - IO-360 experience
Date: May 22, 1998
On Friday, May 22, 1998 17:22 PM, jerry parr [SMTP:parravion(at)mcmail.com] wrote: > Mayday! Mayday! > > I am co-building an RV-6 and for our sins, we plan on > putting an IO-360 > 200hp angle-valve Lycoming in the front. > > We desperately need anyone who has or knows of an RV-4 or > RV-6 with a > 200hp IO-360 on the front (especially if it has a Hartzell > C/S) to let > us know as much of the following as possible (any info > will assist us): > Jerry, Try contacting Steve Barnard at Barnard Aircraft (http://www.barnardaircraft.com/). He makes the "Holy cowl" for the 6/6a with IO-360. He's a real advocate of the IO-360-C/S combo particularly for weight & balance. I'm planning to use it on my -6 with an IO-360 w/ C/S. While it's not an official endorsement, also check these entries from Van's Web site, Accessories Catalog, Props page: HC-C2YK-1BF/F7666A-4 for use with 0-360 engine (and IO-360 with short cowl). Compact hub, 72" diameter, 1/2" flange bolts. Requires constant-speed cowl. Weight 50 lbs. PART NUMBER PRICEPROP C2YK -1BF/F7666A4 $4435.00 M2YR for use with IO-360 engine and Barnard Cowl (from BAC Aircraft). PART NUMBER PRICEPROP MY2R $5200.00 At least the combo is prevalent enough to warrant inclusion in the catalog. If the PFA's objection is strictly weight & balance you should be able to show by calculation that extra weight forward is beneficial in reducing the possibility of exceeding the aft CG limits (dangerous!). If the objection is elevator authority at forward CG, look at the elevator travel limits in the construction manual. There is a 5 degree difference between the "design" and "minimum acceptable" travel. Assuring that you hit the "design" point should provide a cushion for fwd CG. Of course if you load to stay within Van's CG envelope then it is not an issue in either case. Good luck! Greg Young RV-6 N6GY (reserved) fuselage out of jig, fitting controls, pondering panel ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@iis-intellect.com>
Subject: crank plug
Date: May 22, 1998
Can anyone tell me how to remove the crank plug? It looks like I need some special tool. Can't wait until that big Hartzell is swingin! Thanks, Bob Japundza Network Consultant, MCSE ImageMax, Inc. Carmel, IN bjapundza@iis-intellect.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 21, 1998
Subject: Re: RV8/LeftElevator/TrimTab
From: seaok71302(at)Juno.com (mike a adams)
BACKRIVET, JUST LIKE THE STIFFENERS, EXCEPT, TO STRIKE THE BLOW, SINCE THE BACKRIVET TOOL WILL NOT FIT, USE A SMALL PIECE OF STEEL AND A HAMMER; DON'T LAUGH, IT WORKS GREAT! MIKE ADAMS/#2316/-4/Vancouver, WA > >Problem: >Oh the HINGED sections of both the E607 and E607 spars, I can not get >any >bucking bar or squeezer head I have to fit in the small space without >hitting the hinge. My attempt to "finesse" a rivet resulted in 2 >hours of >reforming a hinge section. The hinge is ooooooh so easy to hit and >mess up! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: RV8/LeftElevator/TrimTab
In a message dated 5/22/98 6:08:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu writes: > Oh the HINGED sections of both the E607 and E607 spars, I can not get any > bucking bar or squeezer head I have to fit in the small space without > hitting the hinge. My attempt to "finesse" a rivet resulted in 2 hours of > reforming a hinge section. The hinge is ooooooh so easy to hit and mess up! > I cut out a piece of 0.125 steel stock about 3/8 inch square and taped it to the flush set. This gave the necessary clearance to squeeze the rivets in the hinge. Mark McGee Upstate NY RV 4 Skinning Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: Engine ignition option ordering info?
On 23 May 98 at 0:24, rimbold wrote: > Bernie and I are about to order the engine from Van's for our RV-6A. > We're going to get an O-320, and would like to use a Lightspeed > ignition for one set of plugs, and a regular magneto for the other. > > Has anyone else ordered this combination from Van's? Can it be > ordered this way? Be aware that Klaus recently modified the standard configuration of the Lightspeed Plasma ignition so it doesn't have a "groundable p lead" function. Thats now a $50 option. You need the option only if you want to use the Lightspeed with a standardx A/C key switch. If you plan to use on/off switches the "standard configuration" will work just fine. _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ Tim Lewis N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted Springfield VA http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a timrv6a(at)iname.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: crank plug
ect.com> >Can anyone tell me how to remove the crank plug? It looks like I need >some special tool. Can't wait until that big Hartzell is swingin! >Bob Japundza The "special tool" is an automotive dent puller. Drill a small hole in the front plug and thread the dent puller into it. "Tap" the dent puller weight out to remove the plug. I have seen them removed with a prybar stuck through a hole drilled in the plug and braced against a block of wood to prevent marring the crank, too. Remember before you get ahead of yourself that you must put the rear plug in *BEFORE* hanging that new expensive C/S prop!! For those who have never seen a dent puller it is nothing fancy. A metal rod with a sliding weight and a self tapping screw on one end. There are probably several other ways to remove the crank plug. The key thing to remember with any method one devises is that you want no shavings left in the crank snout, excessive force inline with the crankshaft should not be needed (and is hard on the thrust surfaces), and it should not involve metal tools striking, prying or scratching the nice cad plate on the crank flange. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Engine ignition option ordering info?
Any comments on the relative quality of the >Slick magneto that comes as standard equipment? >Rob Rimbold, rimbold(at)ntr.net Uhhh, yeah. They fly spam cans around everyday with a minimum of care and feeding. I have owned several sets which went well past 2000 Hr TBO with nary a whimper. Would you like to sell your brand new Slick(s) so that you can install the LS ignition? Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: RV8/LeftElevator/TrimTab
F Mark40 wrote: > > > > Oh the HINGED sections of both the E607 and E607 spars, I can not get any > > bucking bar or squeezer head I have to fit in the small space without > > hitting the hinge. My attempt to "finesse" a rivet resulted in 2 hours of > > reforming a hinge section. The hinge is ooooooh so easy to hit and mess > up! > I have been watching the posts on this subject and an surprised that no one has referred to the tool shown on page 3 in the book "14 years of the RVator". You can also refer to the RVator - March 03/89. This tool is made of 3/8" stock and notched along one edge with cutouts that clear both the hinge eyes and the fold up along the edge of the skins. It took me about 1 hour to make one up and I have never stopped lending it out to other builder in my area since. This took will make perfect shop heads every time and does not damage the hinge. If you need the plans for this tool contact me and I will photo copy them for you. Doug Murray - Southern Alberta - RV-6 - Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Sensenich metal prop for O-360 question
> I was checking out the web page for the new Sensenich metal prop for the > 180hp 0-360 and the performance numbers looked outstanding. I may be all > wet but how much better will a variable pitch prop be and is it worth going > to a V.P. prop with all the added weight and expense when this prop seems to > perform so well. >> > >I was going to leave this one alone, since no one wants to hear about a VP >prop which weights less than a metal fixed pitch. >But since I'm referring to the Ivoprop Magnum electric In-Flight djustable >Prop, someone is bound to start talking about life insurance. >Jim Ayers Having installed and tested some of the IVO props on a FAST experimental let me say that rumors of lost blades aside, the IVO prop was the smoothest running prop I ever saw. I installed the early version which was *NOT* cockpit adjustable as an alternative to a Vari-Prop and a couple wood props. The old IVO was so smooth and quite that one could hardly hear the fan turning. It was also very light installed with the adjustable pitch option. After not being able to get much above 120 MPH out of a 200+ MPH airplane IVO repitched the blades and I tried again. Even after installing the second complete set new of blades and the electric prop pitch adjustment kit 140 MPH was still an unachievable goal. The props all ran smoothly and quitely and pushed the plane well on T/O (former Navy flight officer said it was closest thing to Cat shot he'd experienced!), it had *NO* top end. I eventually tired of IVO's "blade set of the month club" and went with a F/P wood and occasionally the Vari-Prop. Gave up the "Cat shot" T/O but gained top end. 200+ cruise is no problem, 235 is available when a Bonanza or Mooney needs its clock cleaned. What did I learn from this? IVO makes a great prop for Slower aircraft, but the pitch seems to flatten out at high RPM, thus limiting the airframe's cruise performance. I never lost a blade from an IVO prop and had several sets of blades to try with. I ran 2 and 3 blade configurations with ground and cockpit adjustable setups. All seemed to hold the engine well for static runups, and at altitude they all absorbed as much power as could be thrown at them. Couldn't really figure this part out. It seemed that they were pitched well on the ground, but if the blades flattened out at high RPM, why didn't they want to overspeed? If they were *NOT* flattening out at high RPMs, why would the plane not continue accelerating with additional power like it would with the other (Non-Ivo) props? The IVOs just would *NOT* allow the proven plane to perform at cruise like any of the other props I tried. I consider the FP wood prop, FP metal prop, and the hartzell style C/S props to be the best for higher speed homebuilts, based on my personal experience. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Jon's seats
Here is the reply I received from Jon concerning his seats. I am interested in one but, the shipping cost is very high. Jon says they can put at least 4 seats in one box and the shipping would be the same. Would 4 others be interested in going in with me and getting some seats? We could get them shipped to one persons house, then UPS them to the others. Let me know. Michael All the best from Aus, Jon Johanson The seat used in VH-NOJ is a carbon kevlar moulded seat similar to those used in race cars. I went to this seat simply because the standard RV-4 seat was only good for three hours at best and I needed 16 hours. There are a few of these seats being used in RV-4s now with the comment being made by everyone that they wish they had put one in earlier. I also have one in the back now much to my passengers delight - have you ever sat in the back of an RV-4 for a few hours? Its not a lot better than the front. These seats will also be perfect for the RV-8, I would not build one without using these seats. There are no -8s here that I have been able to fit a seat to as yet but as the fitting is very easy I am sure they will go in without any trouble. I have found that the RV-6 seating is far superior to the -4 and as a result I have not been tempted to fit these seats into a -6. That is not to say they would not fit, I am sure they would, its just that I have not been approached to do so. As far as fitting the seat into an RV-4 goes it is almost ridiculously easy. The hardest part is dealing with the flaps. If electric flaps are being used there is no problem but with manual flaps a new bracket is needed to hold the flap position as the standard RV seat back where this usually takes place is removed. As my seat is a little wider than the standard seat the flap handle needs to be bent out a little as well. This reduces the room for passengers feet but is very little more restrictive than the standard RV-4. I had manual flaps for both of my world flights but found the packing space they took up was inconvenient and have since fitted electric flaps which I find very good. To fit the seat its self all that is required is to remove the original seat down to floor level and sit the seat in place. The seat is captured by a rebate that sits up against the main spar on the bottom and the head rest section fits snugly between the apex of the roll bar resting against the roll bar cross member. When the pilot is strapped in (for smart pilots a five point harness is the minimum) the seat is fixed solid and good for a flight of 15 hours and 12 minutes, any more than that I cant vouch for. As far as adjusting the seats for the pilot goes there is room for adjustment by packing under the rebate on the spar and at the roll bar. The only pilot I know who has had trouble fitting into my RV is only about 5 foot 3 inches tall and that is to be expected for an aircraft built for a 6 foot 1 inch pilot. The seats can come either as carbon Kevlar or straight fibreglass:- Carbon kevlar 2.2kg (4.9lbs) A$950.00 (~US$620.00) Fibreglass 4Kg (8.8lbs) A$550.00 (~US$358.00) There are seven colours to choose from:- Grey (same as NOJ), bright red, electric blue, navy blue, black, bright yellow and green (a bit lighter than billiard table green). Air freight and packaging costs to your door in America from Australia are ~A$525.00 (~US$342.00) The size of the package is cubed rather than taken on weight so if possible the more seats in each package the cheaper as the freight cost will be very close to that quoted wether there are one or four seats in the box. jon2.jpg Name: jon2.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg) Encoding: base64 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: RV-4/6 - IO-360 experience
> >Mayday! Mayday! > >I am co-building an RV-6 and for our sins, we plan on putting an IO-360 >200hp angle-valve Lycoming in the front. > >1)RV type >2)Registration number >3)Engine type >4)Propeller type >5)Hours flown >6)Date of first flight >7)Contact name, address, tel no, e-mail address etc. > > >Many thanks, in anticipation > >Jerry Parr >RV-6 G-RVVI >Fuse complete, starting on the systems.... >Peterborough, England Jerry, Which engine are you using? Is it counterweighted? Steve's is counterweighted and is using an extended hub prop - both engine and prop is heavier than non counterwieghted and standard HC-C2YK Hartzell. Keep us posted on your progress. Shelby in Nashville. IO-360 A1B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: RV Tow Bar
>Somewhere I recall that someone is manufacturing and selling tow bars >for RVs - can any lister remind me who was selling them? Thanks. The Tail Dragger Dragger is a good one for the non-A series. They make a special version for the RV series that is angled to miss the rudder. I modified mine to make it work better. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: Salvage Bidding
>It is possible to do though. A friend won the bid on a storm damaged >Cherokee 140 and got it for about $7000 (and he only had to go acrossed >town to pick it up). >The biggest problem is that you are bidding blind and if you bid >aggressively enough to get one you could end up with something that (to >you) is not worth what you had to pay for it. I even traveled to inspect >a couple that I bid on, and I was sure glad that I did. The info >provided is usually rather vague, though I found that if you call the >usually provided phone # of the party that is holding/storing the salvage >they are usually helpful with answering questions and giving more >information. > > >Scott McDaniels Some more good information from Scott. The bid I won(by $98) was heavily researched including an expert in the aircraft type(my partner basically), the previous mechanics(both airframe and avionics that worked on the plane), every owner I could track down, FAA title and modification/repair searches, and pricing out every part/accessory with any value. I still tried to factor in/out what I thought would be a profit for the salvage bidders, but ultimately it came down to what I would have to pay for the parts on the market as well as what I felt I could afford. The jury is still out as to how well I did. There were a couple of tricks that helped me but I have but in some bids since and have missed every one. It is the age old scenario of buying what you need when you need it even if it is a little more expensive. Also, if the engine or part you buy from the salvage company is bad you have some recourse. If you win the salvage bid it's like your wife - for better or worse. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Qmax LLC <QmaxLLC(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: flight over populated areas
I had hoped to fly my 6 out of San Carlos Airport but the FAA has prohibited the first 40 hours from here. Kinda picky....I mean what's the big deal about having 4 million people underneath you? You see, SQL is on the San Francisco Bay, so it makes sense. Bob Fritz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: crank plug
<< Subj: RV-List: crank plug Date: 98-05-23 01:41:44 EDT From: bjapundza@iis-intellect.com (Bob Japundza) Can anyone tell me how to remove the crank plug? It looks like I need some special tool. Can't wait until that big Hartzell is swingin! Thanks, Bob Japundza Network Consultant, MCSE ImageMax, Inc. Carmel, IN bjapundza@iis-intellect.com >> Hello Listers, I taked to a Lycoming tech rep about this very subject. He said you use a punch and hammer. Place the punch at the center of the plug, and hit the punch with the hammer. I haven't done this myself. But I understand the principle. By canning :-) the center of the plug, it reduces the diameter of the plug, so it is free to be removed. The Lycoming tech rep also recommended to NOT drill a hole. This creates debris that can get into the engine. BTW, the new plug is already canned. To install it, you flatten it out inside the crank to make it a larger diameter. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: crank plug
<< Can anyone tell me how to remove the crank plug? It looks like I need some special tool. >> I took a 5/16" drill bit and drilled a shallow hole in it (just to thin it out). Then cleaned up the chips and took a hammer and punch the rest of the way. Twist it around and voila! Then just swab out the uckum-yucky from the hollow crank. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: crank plug
I just wanted to add that if you are pulling this crank plug on a used eng for any reason,,, clean and inspect the bore for rust and pitting. I believe this is Lyc SB 505 Stew RV4 273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: John in New Mexico
To John ? in New Mexico. The message you left on your answering machine was garbled and I couldn't get your last name or phone number. If you are reading this, please call or e-mail back. Sorry to everyone else for this personal message. Andy Gold RV-ation Bookstore Winterland Publications http://www.rvbookstore.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: RV Tow Bar
>>Somewhere I recall that someone is manufacturing and selling tow bars >>for RVs - can any lister remind me who was selling them? Thanks. > >The Tail Dragger Dragger is a good one for the non-A series. They make a >special version for the RV series that is angled to miss the rudder. I >modified mine to make it work better. Got sent before I was done..... Really handy for dragging the airplane in tight quarters in the hanger. Or just moving it around. Caution has to be used so you don't bang it into the tailfeathers, but shouldn't you ALWAYS be careful of that? Skyline Aviation 8298 Reid Road, Hanger #11 Swartz Creek, MI 48473 810-635-8724 Tell them what airplane you have as there are several different models. Would also be pretty easy to make if welding is in your list of talents. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q WAY Beyond The Boundries us, why not? By the way, Kelli is not jealous of the new addition to our lives. She calls it the Magic Carpet. The story of our first long cross-country is coming soon to an RV list near you. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q (aka Magic Carpet) WAY Beyond The Boundries ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
<< My personal feeling though would make me lean much harder towards speeding some of my airplane building money on a constant speed and maybe even do with out some of the other options and gadgets that most of us can do without if we need to >> Scott, would you share your opinion (which I highly respect), on a list of the gadgets we are seeing in RV's these days and rank them in your priority order. TIA Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)ornaprod.com>
Subject: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
Date: May 23, 1998
Ok, I have beat myself to death on this one. What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? My hole cutter only goes up to 4" and I looked at Lowes and they have hole cutters for plumbing that go up to 4-1/2" max. Help! Paul Riedlinger paulried(at)ornaprod.com http://paulried.home.mindspring.com (My RV-6A homepage) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Lycoming 0-320 Crank AD
The FAA AD on inspecting hollow crank shafts on 0-320's calls for applying some "product" (I assume it's a rust preventative) on the hollow interior if all is well, prior to reseating the sealing plug. WHERE CAN THIS BE OBTAINED? BTW a past issue of Sport Aviation had a detailed article on how to remove the plug, and reseat a new one, etc. It was a Tony Benglis article. I can get more specific if anyone wants details. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
How did you cut all the holes in the wing ribs? Oh, that's right, you're one of those lucky guys that got the kit with the holes already cut. Those of us that built our RV's from the raw ore already have the tool needed to cut that simple little hole. You need a 'fly-wheel' cutter; no, I don't know why it's called that. It consists of a center drill bit and a horizontal arm with a vertical cutting tooth. Chuck the cutter into your drill press and clamp the rib securely onto the table (very securely; you don't want to think of the damage a spinning rib can do to your tender anatomy). You want to cut at the slowest speed your drill press can handle. John > >Ok, I have beat myself to death on this one. > >What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib >before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? My hole cutter >only goes up to 4" and I looked at Lowes and they have hole cutters for >plumbing that go up to 4-1/2" max. > >Help! > > >Paul Riedlinger >paulried(at)ornaprod.com >http://paulried.home.mindspring.com (My RV-6A homepage) John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com Seattle WA USA 1974 1/2 JH-5 RV-6 (sold 4/14/98) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: Lycoming 0-320 Crank AD
I believe you will find that the coating you mentioned is not available in the field. As of yet any way. It could be available too us someday. Contact lycoming for details . Stew RV4 273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: oil pump gears
Just received a set of superior gears for a lycoming eng. They had been on order for one year. Any one need a set of gears?? Stew RV4 273sb CO. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karl Ahamer" <ascot(at)hinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: crank plug
Date: May 24, 1998
I have put a new 0-360 ex Vans in my RV6A and just removed the front plug when I put the CS prop on.I was told this is all I have to do so I didn't worry about the "back" plug to be put in.My prop has to come off again anyway and it hasn't been lockwired so it isn't a big deal.But now I'm really not sure wether I have to put this back plug in or not. Would there be a specialist out there to clear this up. thank you! Karl Ahamer RV6AQ near Sydney ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
All: Guys, as far as I'm concerned, my Hartzell Constant Speed Prop is worth every nickel I paid for it. takeoff performance is phenomenal. By the time I have all the power in, she's airborne. Even when I use a climb speed of 110 mph, by the time I turn from crosswind to downwind, I'm at 2000 feet agl. By the time I'm downwind abeam, I'm punching through the top of the Class D and the tower is saying "Frequency Change Approved". And this is with a 320, not a 360. Until now, I have NEVER owned an airplane with this kind of exhilerating performance. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 23, 1998
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
My el-cheapo fly cutter also wasn't large enough to cut the inspection cover hole in the tank root rib. I resorted to a tool all of us probably have in the box.....a pair of aviation snips. Use either the red or green handled variety and cut in the appropriate direction. They work best if you cut to within a 1/4" the first pass, then cut to final size the second time around. A few passes with the 2" ScotchBrite wheel cleans up any burrs. Sam Buchanan sbuc(at)traveller.com "The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6 John Ammeter wrote: > > You need a 'fly-wheel' cutter; no, I don't know why it's called that. It > consists of a center drill bit and a horizontal arm with a vertical cutting > tooth. Chuck the cutter into your drill press and clamp the rib securely > onto the table (very securely; you don't want to think of the damage a > spinning rib can do to your tender anatomy). You want to cut at the > slowest speed your drill press can handle. > > John > > > > >Ok, I have beat myself to death on this one. > > > >What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib > >before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? My hole cutter > >only goes up to 4" and I looked at Lowes and they have hole cutters for > >plumbing that go up to 4-1/2" max. > > > >Help! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DAVENDANA1 <DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com>
Date: May 23, 1998
Subject: Re: Did You Know...
INFO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
Dave; Are you saying that in your opinion, if money were the issue, you would rather have a constant speed prop on an 0-320 than a fixed pitch on a 0-360? This is where I am at on my RV-8, trying to decide between the two, and so far everything seems to point to cs prop and 320 as being a nice, economical, but still high performance combo. Any other opinions? Von Alexander RV-8#544 Installing fuse side skins ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Wanted - Crankshaft
<35510141.D6F80850(at)ctnet.net>
From: tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano)
Does anyone know where I can get a good crankshaft for a Lycoming O360 A1A? Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Help on IO 360 Offer
Date: May 23, 1998
From: "William H. Watson" <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net>
A guy I know stopped by the hanger and offered to sell his used IO 360 A1B6D. He says: "what will you offer for it?" I try to act coy and say I guess one could be stuffed in an RV 6A and will do some research and get back to him. It has 150 hours since a major overhaul, with about 1400 since new. It includes a constant speed prop, governor, spin-on oil filter, Bendix dual mag, starter, alternator, etc. Assuming it is in OK shape (I wouldn't assume anything, but for purposes of ballparking the price), what kind of bucks are we looking at? I plan to look in the archives to see if it will fit in my 6. I thinks there are some issues with the induction system plumbing? Thanks for your help. Skinning left wing. William H. Watson wmwatson(at)earthlink.net H: 650 254-1656 W: 408 553-4225 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: flight over populated areas
Date: May 24, 1998
Just in from one of our people at EAA Chapter 242 ... > > From: Dick Knapinski > > Sent: Friday, May 22, 1998 4:14 PM > > To: 'Cummings, Sue'; Bob Mackey; Bob Warner; Earl Lawrence; HG > > Frautschy; Jack Cox; Joe Schumacher; Pete Moll; Mary Jones; Tim > > Bogenhagen; Tom Poberezny > > Subject: EAA receives FAA clarification on homebuilt overflights > > > > For more information contact: > > Dick Knapinski, Media and Public Relations > > (920) 426-6523 > > dknapinski(at)eaa.org > > > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > > > EAA EFFORTS RESULT IN CLARIFICATION OF URBAN OVERFLIGHT GUIDELINES FOR > > EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT > > > > EAA AVIATION CENTER, OSHKOSH, Wis. - (May 22, 1998) - The > > Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has issued a bulletin clarifying > > limitations for Experimental amateur-built aircraft flying over > > populated areas, which will hopefully end confusion over the issue > > that had emerged in the western United States. > > > > The Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) and its members in > > the region had requested the clarification after confusion over > > operating limitations arose among local pilots and FAA officials in > > the Los Angeles area. The confusion over proper operating procedure > > threatened to slow or halt flying activity as pilots were reluctant to > > fly their Experimental "homebuilt" aircraft for fear of being found in > > violation of regulations or FAA policy. > > > > "EAA always maintained that FAA had established its policy on > > amateur-built overflights of populated areas more than 25 years ago," > > EAA President Tom Poberezny said. "That policy was based on homebuilt > > aircraft's excellent safety record after the test period. Although > > this situation grew out of a singular case regarding an experimental > > exhibition aircraft, it's important to reiterate current policy for > > amateur-built operations." > > > > The FAA bulletin states that once flight testing is completed in > > a homebuilt, an Experimental amateur-built aircraft may "operate over > > densely populated areas, both en route and during takeoffs and > > landings, and operate within congested airways of the National > > Airspace System (NAS)." > > > > EAA also asked FAA Headquarters to reiterate to local and region > > offices that FAA Headquarters should establish policy for U.S. > > airspace, to prevent a patchwork of regulations that might vary > > throughout the country. > > > > The situation began when FAA's Flight Standards District Office > > (FSDO) in Long Beach, Calif., contacted experimental aircraft owners > > operating at John Wayne Airport in Orange County, Calif. > > Representatives from that FSDO informed those airplane owners that > > they may be in violation of FAR Part 91, which prohibits Experimental > > category aircraft over populated areas "unless otherwise approved." > > > > That was in conflict with FAA policy established in 1972, which > > stated that amateur-built aircraft could operate over populated areas > > once certain conditions were met. The policy was created because such > > operations are not deemed a safety concern, but rather a means of > > limiting risk during the initial test phase of such aircraft. This > > clarification by FAA Headquarters reinforces that policy nationwide. > > > > FAA requested EAA's input on the issue, particularly in drafting > > a clarification for operating limitations after initial test flights. > > EAA is continuing to work with FAA Headquarters and its Western Region > > offices to solve the particular situations regarding operations at > > John Wayne Airport. The Long Beach FSDO is also involved in the > > issue, so a reasonable solution to the current situation can be > > implemented quickly. EAA has also asked FAA to clarify the same issue > > for experimental-exhibition aircraft. > > > > EAA is the world's leading recreation aviation organization, > > with 170,000 members and more than 950 local Chapters. For more > > information on EAA and its programs, call 1-800-JOIN-EAA > > (1-800-564-6322) or explore EAA's World Wide Web site (www.eaa.org). > > > > James RV6A QB ... Electric Flaps Columbia, SC > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
Date: May 24, 1998
I drilled inch holes all around the circumference of the hole, punched out the resulting disk and then spent an hour per hole filing and sanding it smooth. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont RV-6A -----Original Message----- What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? My hole cutter only goes up to 4" and I looked at Lowes and they have hole cutters for plumbing that go up to 4-1/2" max. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Lycoming 0-320 Crank AD
Date: May 24, 1998
The stuff you are referring to has the startling name of URETHABOND 104. While it is a specialty item, you can probably scarf some from your local FBO -- they're going to be using A LOT of this stuff this year. I don't even want to tell you the jokes I've heard about warnings on the can in case you get the stuff on certain parts of your body. Regards, Nick Knobil RV-8 Wings on Wait Bowdoinham, Maine (You can't get here from there) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
Paul Riedlinger wrote: > What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib > before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? I cut mine out on a scroll saw using a #7 blade. Works like a charm. I do not like fly cutters. I came very close to losing a hand to one of them. It sure made the blood fly though. Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap, Tx. RV-4 90% complete 90% to go. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
>> >What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib >> >before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? My hole cutter >> >only goes up to 4" and I looked at Lowes and they have hole cutters for >> >plumbing that go up to 4-1/2" max. >> > >> >Help! > I found a "fly-cutter" type hole cutter that is big enough at Sears Hardware, the cost was about $22. It's the drill type with the arm and cutter attached. Worked great for the tank access hole. Be careful with a hole cutter. Seems to be the most dangerous tool I ever used!!!! Bill Pagan 80555 - still sealing the tanks & doin other wing stuff> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
If hole cutten is what you want try MALCO'S ( HC1 ) hole cutter, range is from 2" to 12" perfect hole every time. If you live near a sheetmetal or air conditioning supply shop, it should cost between 35-40 dollars. scott winging it in tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillJW <HillJW(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
Am interested in this discussion. Have an io-360 200 HP, and need to decide on a prop. Does anyone know what Sensinich has for that engine? hilljw(at)aol.comm rv-8a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: RV-6A Towbars
Does anyone recommend where I can get buy a good towbar (pushbar) for an RV-6A? Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: crank plug
>I have put a new 0-360 ex Vans in my RV6A and just removed the front plug >when I put the CS prop on. I was told this is all I have to do so I didn't >worry about the "back" plug to be put in. My prop has to come off again >anyway and it hasn't been lockwired so it isn't a big deal. But now I'm >really not sure wether I have to put this back plug in or not. >Would there be a specialist out there to clear this up. >thank you! >Karl Ahamer RV6AQ near Sydney I can't tell you if there is possibly a Lycoming engine which doesn't need the plug at the back of the crank snout for the C/S prop, but *MOST* all do need them. The purpose of the back plug is to stop up the hole which would let all the oil from the governor spill out into the crankcase rather than pressurise the prop hub to tip the blades. I can't think of a way for the prop to work without the plug at the back of the crank. If your local expert is willing to bet a steak dinner on his "no plug" method, and then come to the airport on Sunday afternoon and install the plug for you at no charge if it doesn't work, take him up on it. Otherwise, get the plug put in when the prop is off! Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming 0-320 Crank AD
>The FAA AD on inspecting hollow crank shafts on 0-320's calls for >applying some "product" (I assume it's a rust preventative) on the >hollow interior if all is well, prior to reseating the sealing plug. >WHERE CAN THIS BE OBTAINED? I got mine from the local engine shop. Turned out *MINE* was the first one they'd done. It is *EXPENSIVE* stuff. It came in a 1.5 gallon kit that was over $200!!! I wasn't keen to do it myself after reading the warnings on the can. I let them do the painting after I'd cleaned and honed the ID of the crank. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: X-country flying
Listers, I just took my first really long trip in my RV-6A and had a great time. I learned a few things that I thought that I would share. First, VFR conditions do not always mean VFR flying. I took off from St. Charles, MO with barely VFR conditions due to the haze from the fires in Mexico and as I climbed to cruising altitude, could see less and less of the ground. I had both GPS (a Garmin GPS Map 195) and Loran (a II Morrow 618TCA) so I thought I had no problem finding my destination near Columbus, OH. I have gotten so used to the GPS that I didn't set up the Loran. That was a mistake. After about ten minutes of flight, I got a "Poor GPS Coverage" message and the screen went blank. I then started to set up the Loran, but found that due to the poor visibility, I was wandering all over the sky while setting it up. Even though it was VFR, there was no horizon and only a small part of the ground was visible. That made holding a heading very difficult. I changed the antenna on the GPS and got the signal back. I just love the GPS moving map, but found that it was still hard to keep a heading without a horizon. The HSI page on the GPS is much easier to use to hold heading and track because it is much more intuitive and easier to interpret. I didn't figure that out until I had flown nearly 16 hours of hard "IFR" in VFR conditions. The lessons learned from this trip are many, but a few are more important than others. First, VFR is not always VFR. Three miles visibility with haze can make it nearly impossible to fly without IFR instrumentation unless you want to fly close to the ground and hope that you don't run into a tall antenna. Second, use all available navigation aids that you have and get them set up before you take off. If one proves unusable, you have the others ready. If you plan to do much cross country flying, get a wing leveler so that you can look at charts, set up GPS or Loran sets, etc., without having the plane wander off of your desired course. The RV holds altitude very well and listening to the RPM will give you an indication if you are climbing or descending (if you have a fixed pitch prop), so something that will hold a heading or course will make flying much easier. I plan to order a wing leveler immediately. One thing that I learned is that the RV is an incredible cross country flying machine. In nine days, I flew all over the eastern US and had a great time, even though the weather was less than desirable. Thanks go to Van for such a great plane. Jim Cone RV-6A flying GREAT! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Pitot line fitting, Tank attach angle
Hi Listers, I'm busy building fuel tanks (and have the blackened fingernails to prove it!). Whilst waiting for the sealant to set, I'm doing other bits and pieces, specifically the pitot tube fitting. So, 1. The plans call out AN426AD4-7 rivets to attach T405/T410 to the root rib. Why flush rivets? And which way round do they go? (I'd guess the flush heads would be to the outside of the tank?) 2. How long should the pitot line be? Does it need to extend any further inboard than the inboard end of the fuel tank? What fitting goes on the inboard end of it? The plans only show it as far as Sta. 44. 3. To flare the pitot tube end, did you push it out the hole in the spar? Or maybe through the inspection hole in the skin? I'd guess (but haven't tried) that after flaring it won't fit through the plastic grommets in the ribs. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: Help on IO 360 Offer
wrote: >A guy I know stopped by the hanger and offered to sell his used IO 360 >A1B6D. He says: "what will you offer for it?" I try to act coy and say >I guess one could be stuffed in an RV 6A and will do some research and >get back to him. about a year ago, an RV-6 with an IO360 was featured in Sport Aviation. The builders christened her "The Other Woman". In the Sport Aviation article, they flat out said that they would never try to do it (put an IO-360 in an RV-6) again, due to the extra work. My suggestion would be to buy the IO-360, sell it to an RV_8 builder at a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Firewall insulation
All: I just finished installing the firewall insulation/soundproofing I bought from George Orndorff some time ago. The sound level in the cockpit is significantly lower now. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
Date: May 24, 1998
> Guys, as far as I'm concerned, my Hartzell Constant Speed Prop is worth > every nickel I paid for it Okay everyone, I've just ordered a c/s capable engine, after my dilemma with the first Lycoming and the crankshaft AD. Thinking about a c/s to go with it (no more crank AD worries). I've figured out that a c/s prop will pay for its initial cost over a f/p installation in fuel savings, after a thousand plus hours or so. But what about ongoing costs? What are the recurring costs (i.e. normal maint., overhauls, etc.) and intervals? Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com>
Subject: Re: X-country flying
Date: May 24, 1998
> >The lessons learned from this trip are many, but a few are more important than >others. First, VFR is not always VFR. Three miles visibility with haze can >make it nearly impossible to fly without IFR instrumentation unless you want Sounds pretty much like IFR to me. What's technically legal is not always safe. Perhaps the safer route is file IFR. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
>I've figured out that a c/s prop will pay for its initial cost over a f/p >installation in fuel savings, after a thousand plus hours or so. But what >about ongoing costs? What are the recurring costs (i.e. normal maint., >overhauls, etc.) and intervals? The CS prop does have a TBO. I think it is 1500 hours. A local prop shop gets about $2K for a normal prop overhaul, but the cost of the overhaul will depend more upon who does it than any other factor, IMHO. Frankly, I did not try to justify the cost of the CS prop in any way. I just wanted one. Best Regards Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Don Pfeiffer <donp(at)scruznet.com>
Subject: Cowling clearance from Exhaust ?
Date: May 24, 1998
I have a 0-360 with Vetterman Crossover exhaust. On the left side the Clearance is 1/2 to 5/8" between exhaust and cowling for about 6 to 8 inches. Should the cowling be protected with some kind of heat shield or is this sufficient clearance? If so what is best way to do this? Don Pfeiffer RV6 donp(at)scruznet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Riedlinger" <paulried(at)ornaprod.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
Date: May 24, 1998
Update: Went to Home Depot today and found a whole General Tools section. They had an adjustable up to 8" fly cutter for 11.95. Took me a whopping 2 minutes to cut the hole. Thanks for the help Paul -----Original Message----- From: Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> Date: Sunday, May 24, 1998 8:49 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407 > > > >Paul Riedlinger wrote: > >> What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib >> before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? > > I cut mine out on a scroll saw using a #7 blade. Works like a charm. I do not >like fly cutters. I came very close to losing a hand to one of them. It sure made >the blood fly though. > > Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap, Tx. RV-4 90% complete 90% to go. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Abby Razer <cool_cat4_@yahoo.com>
Subject: Help Please
Help Please. My computer has shot craps and I would appreciate if someone will contact Matt and ask him to unsubscribe me from the list until I can get my system back on line. Im writing this message from a remote computer and am having difficulty unsubscribing from the list in the normal way using a remote computer. the following is the address that the system will recognize. thnx chet razer razer(at)midwest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: Pitot line fitting, Tank attach angle
Frank van der Hulst wrote: > 1. The plans call out AN426AD4-7 rivets to attach T405/T410 to the > root rib. Why flush rivets? And which way round do they go? (I'd guess > the flush heads would be to the outside of the tank?) > On my six the plans call for AN470 rivets for this. Don't see any need for AN426 here. > 2. How long should the pitot line be? Does it need to extend any > further inboard than the inboard end of the fuel tank? What fitting > goes on the inboard end of it? The plans only show it as far as Sta. > 44. I left mine about two feet longer on the root end after it exits from behind the tank. This will get cut off and be attached to a vinyl / plastic line to and go through the fuselage skin and up to the airspeed indicator. > > > 3. To flare the pitot tube end, did you push it out the hole in the > spar? Or maybe through the inspection hole in the skin? I'd guess (but > haven't tried) that after flaring it won't fit through the plastic > grommets in the ribs. I used a 1 foot piece of copper tubing of the same diameter to exactly get the bends in the right place as it goes through the lightening hole in the spar and then through the tip ribs. My bottom skins were off so I flared the aluminum tube and then routed it through the holes. Gary Zilik 6A S/N 22993 Fuselage out of the jig. Pine Junction, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Crimpers
Starting to think about electrical wiring and wondering if anyone has advice on crimpers for the wiring terminals. I understand that I will need one that does a double crimp and they are expensive. Thanks. George McNutt, Langley B.C. 6-A, fuel tanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: crank plug
>Remember before you get ahead of yourself that you must put the rear plug >in *BEFORE* hanging that new expensive C/S prop!! > >Bob Steward, A&P IA >AA-1B N8978L >AA-5A N1976L Bob, The new engines from Van's have the back plug in place (as well as the front), so for these you need only to remove the front plug if you are installing a CSU. My understanding is that if you are converting an engine that has been running a fixed pitch you then need to add the rear plug behind the oil return bar. I am prepared to bow to your superior knowledge on this but I think what I am saying is correct. Leo Davies leo(at)icn.su.oz.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: crank plug
>Hello Listers, > >I taked to a Lycoming tech rep about this very subject. He said you use a >punch and hammer. > >Place the punch at the center of the plug, and hit the punch with the hammer. > >I haven't done this myself. But I understand the principle. By canning :-) >the center of the plug, it reduces the diameter of the plug, so it is free to >be removed. > >The Lycoming tech rep also recommended to NOT drill a hole. This creates >debris that can get into the engine. > >BTW, the new plug is already canned. To install it, you flatten it out inside >the crank to make it a larger diameter. > >Jim Ayers >LesDrag(at)aol.com >Thousand Oaks, Ca. Jim, The above sounds like the good oil. I drilled my plug (as noted on previous post) and was very distressed at all the little metal bits inside my crank. Spent a long time with rag, solvents and air gun getting it clean to my satisfaction. ...... and I was wondering how the heck you installed a new plug, you obviously stick it in with the convexity out and give it a whack.... so nice when the lights come on Leo Davies ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: crank plug
ect.com> >Can anyone tell me how to remove the crank plug? It looks like I need >some special tool. Can't wait until that big Hartzell is swingin! > > >Thanks, > >Bob Japundza Bob, The Tony Bingellis engine book has a nice diagram of this. I drilled a hole in the plug, enlarged it with my Unibit, then levered it out with a bit of steel that was a close fit to the hole. Carefull not to score the inside of the crank. Carefull not to damage the oil return pipe about 3 inches back. Leo Davies Mounting Bob Nuckolls fuse blocks in my 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com>
Subject: Re: X-country flying
> Loran (a II Morrow 618TCA) so I thought I had no >problem finding my destination near Columbus, OH. I have gotten so used to >the GPS that I didn't set up the Loran. Jim I am seeing Lorans for sale in Trade A Plane for $250-$350. For that price I am thinking of getting one to use with my handheld as a backup. Are there any cons to watch out for? Any suggestions on what type of used Loran to get? Regards, Tom Velvick RV-6a (Finishing $#@# fuel tanks for the 3rd time ) Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz>
Subject: Kiwi-8 website
Date: May 25, 1998
My RV-8 website is up and running. Not complete (are any of these? ever?) but there is some content there for anyone who may be interested. Any feedback welcome. http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm ____ Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995 Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751 Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz 442 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6A Towbars
<< Does anyone recommend where I can get buy a good towbar (pushbar) for an RV-6A? >> Andy- Ken Barto has the best. Get the heavy gauge one as the lighter ones bend too easily IMO. Ken is listed in the Yeller Pages. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: sensenich prop
A man came to the airport yesterday and said he has a lot of time in an rv-4 another man owns. He said it had a 150 in it with a wooden prop (unknown manu.). He said it would do 185 at 8000 feet, full throttle. He then put the new metal f.p. prop on it and the top speed went to 230 mph. He said the rpm restriction has been removed from the new models of the metal prop. Is this true? Is this speed change possible? Hard for me to believe, but, you never know. Michael. One other question. Is there anything else that would make a prop overspeed at wide open throttle other than too little pitch? I tried a 72" pitch and got 2950 rpm's, 76" pitch and got 2850 rpm's. He is now making me a 82" pitch prop that is really for a 180 horse engine. This is on a 150 hp engine. And the tach has been checked. Climb has been really good, but top speed has only been about 185, with the 76" pitch. I suppose if the plane was too draggy it would just bog the engine down instead of turn too many rpm's. The prop maker doesn't understand it. He thinks I have more hp than 150. I guess I will find out, if it doesn't turn the bigger prop. Thanks for any insightful guesses. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pitot line fitting, Tank attach angle
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 24, 1998
>1. The plans call out AN426AD4-7 rivets to attach T405/T410 to the >root rib. Why flush rivets? And which way round do they go? (I'd guess >the flush heads would be to the outside of the tank?) > >Frank. > > > This is called out because some builders install the bracket to the rib before installing the rib in the skin. If you do it that way the rivet heads can get in the way of squeezing the rivets in the skin/rib flange. For this reason I always install the bracket after installing the rib. But your right, the flush heads go on the outside of the bracket. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 24, 1998
>>Dave; Are you saying that in your opinion, if money were the issue, >you >would >>rather have a constant speed prop on an 0-320 than a fixed pitch on a >0-360? >>This is where I am at on my RV-8, trying to decide between the two, >and so >far >>everything seems to point to cs prop and 320 as being a nice, >economical, but >>still high performance combo. Any other opinions? > > >Yes, I think the 320/CS is a better combo than 360/FP. Given the >price >differential between a used 320 and a used 360, I also think that the >two >alternatives will cost about the same. > >Best Regards, >Dave Barnhart >rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB >Flying > > > > I almost agree entirely with Dave (he is a good friend so I'm sure he wont mind :) ). Since you can buy a new O-360 for a little more than $1000 more than an O-320 I think the O-320/constant speed combination would probably be a little more expensive but would also probably be easier to find if you are shopping for used engines. It would still be my first choice. An RV with the O-320/constant speed has excellent performance, and will probably come very close to matching the performance #s of an RV with an O-360/fixed pitch prop. It will be slightly heavier, the O-360 is approx 8 lbs. heavier than an O-320, but the constant speed installation is approx 40 lbs heavier than the fixed pitch. One other consideration that I would like to add (some may disagree with me) is that in real life service I believe the O-320 is a little more fuel efficient in performance versus fuel burned than the O-360 is. It is often said that "Ok I'll go with the 180 HP and then I can always pull the power back a little and run with the 160 HP guys and burn the same fuel". From my experience it doesn't work that way. The O-320 has an MA4SPA carb and the O-360 has an MA5 carb. (which is a larger bore carb.) Also running a Lyc at less than full open throttle makes it less efficient because the throttle plate acts as a deflector which causes (more than normal) a mixture imbalance between the front and rear cyl's. This prevents it from being leaned as far as it normally would. This is not the case if both engines have fuel injection instead of carburetors. So if I had a choice... I would have a O-320/constant speed instead of an O-360 with a fixed pitch prop. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
paulried(at)ornaprod.com wrote: > What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib > before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? I used a jigsaw. Not the neatest, most circular hole, but it's functional, the right size, and no-one's going to see it anyway. See http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny2c.htm for other tank-construction tips. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
48-51,57-59,63-64,66-67,71-77
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 24, 1998
> >Scott, would you share your opinion (which I highly respect), on a >list of the >gadgets we are seeing in RV's these days and rank them in your >priority order. >TIA > >Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla > > > Sure... as long as those itchy blow torch fingers keep in mind that this is only my personal opinion, and you asked me for it. If I were building on a limited budget, but was still determined to make the best overall RV that I could I would do the following. Build the airplane as light as practical Build an instrument panel that was planned out with standard instrument hole cutouts laid out in a logical manner to allow for installation of upgrades and options later (meaning - fill the complete panel with instrument holes and avionics cutouts). Install just basic flight instruments and an electrical system that allowed for easy upgrade and installation of new equipment. For avionics I would install a single com unit (such as an Icom A-200) with a stereo intercom, and a transponder/encoder (I like to fly cross country above 10,000 ft when possible). I would probably also install nav. lights and landing light(s) Install an O-320 with a constant speed prop. -Then working from this basic airplane as funds would allow (over and above the basic airplane above) I would chose the following in approx. this order. -A GPS with moving map. (I know it is not a necessity, and I have flow many RV hours with just a chart on my lap, but when the weather is bad the situational awareness that it provides has mad me decide on it being a Go/No-Go item for "Me" in dealing with any weather with less than 5 miles vis. -A navaid auto pilot/wing leveler (coupled to the previously purchased GPS -An accurately calibrated fuel flow totalizer (such as the matronics unit). -Additional engine instrumentation for EGT and CHT -At this point I would have a well laid out panel that would have painted to match covers over "a lot" of the holes, and I can easily add other things if I thought I needed them but I probably wouldn't change it much. The plus side is that it makes it very easy for someone else to make it into "there" ideal airplane if I would ever sell it (I have already sold 1 RV that I thought I would never sell). The bottom line is only put in what you really need. If you have never flown anything but the Cessna rent a wreck it the local airport then maybe a good way to go is design for all contingencies but keep it simple to start with, and then add later as you need it (this will also be easier on the wallet and get you in the air sooner). If you design your electrical system properly you can make it a relatively simple project to add and upgrade. Lastly ---- It's been said before (and will be again and again) every single pound that you add to the basic airplane will effect its total performance capability, whether you build with a 150 HP / fixed pitch prop or a mega power fire breather with a constant speed. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Cathy Lamport)
Subject: First Flight of C-GLRV
I am very pleased to report the first flight of our RV6A, C-GLRV, on Saturday evening. My husband Dale took to the air about 7:15 p.m. and never came down for another 50 minutes. I was on the ground with a fellow builder and his wife and we were equipped with a receiver. Every so often we would hear comments like "this is wonderful", "I am doing 160 miles an hour and all parameters are great" and more. I can't describe how happy he was. After he made a perfect landing, he kept using the word fantastic. He had test flown four other airplanes and said this was the straightest flying airplane on the first flight. He was ecstatic to say the least. The airplane performed as advertised. Our baby is equipped with an Lycoming O360 and a McCauley C/S. We picked up our first kit on November 11, 1994 (Remembrance Day in Canada) and have logged approximately 2900 working hours. It has been a pleasure being the bucking bar assistant, etc. etc. for this project. Dale and Cathy Lamport RV6A - #23861 Nepean, Ontario, Canada Flying out of Smiths Falls Airport ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Tim Bronson <TBronson(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Help Please
Chet Razer wrote: minimize The number of folks that pass this on. Tim - Pittsburgh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Re: Cowling clearance from Exhaust ?
<< I have a 0-360 with Vetterman Crossover exhaust. On the left side the Clearance is 1/2 to 5/8" between exhaust and cowling for about 6 to 8 inches. Should the cowling be protected with some kind of heat shield or is this sufficient clearance? If so what is best way to do this? >> I have the same setup. First of all, try to rotate the exit pipes in their ball joints so that you have maximized the clearance from the lower cowl in this area. In the most optimum position, this caused the "turn downs" on the pipe ends to toe in a little bit. The two Robbins muffs (narrowest eccentric side) now clear either side of the cowling by about 3/8". The muffs make good heat shields. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
<< Even though it was VFR, there was no horizon and only a small part of the ground was visible. That made holding a heading very difficult. I changed the antenna on the GPS and got the signal back. I just love the GPS moving map, but found that it was still hard to keep a heading without a horizon. The HSI page on the GPS is much easier to use to hold heading and track because it is much more intuitive and easier to interpret. I didn't figure that out until I had flown nearly 16 hours of hard "IFR" in VFR conditions. >> Jim, Thanks for the input on lessons learned. What other visual instruments sources for holding the airplane level do you have? Bernie kerr , 6A fuselage, SE Fla ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Least Drag <LeastDrag(at)aol.com>
Date: May 24, 1998
Subject: Slow Aircraft Ivoprop (was Sensenich metal prop for O-360 question)
<< Subj: Re: RV-List: Sensenich metal prop for O-360 question Date: 98-05-23 09:35:58 EDT From: unistar(at)mindspring.com (Unistar Computers) Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (Snip) Having installed and tested some of the IVO props on a FAST experimental let me say that rumors of lost blades aside, the IVO prop was the smoothest running prop I ever saw. I installed the early version which was *NOT* cockpit adjustable as an alternative to a Vari-Prop and a couple wood props. (Snip) The IVOs just would *NOT* allow the proven plane to perform at cruise like any of the other props I tried. I consider the FP wood prop, FP metal prop, and the hartzell style C/S props to be the best for higher speed homebuilts, based on my personal experience. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L >> After a direct Email with Bob, I just want to add a point of clarification. The Ivoprop Bob was describing was an Ivoprop Ultralight prop on a 120 hp engine (An alternate powerplant). What Bob has said about the performance of the Ivoprop Ultralight prop on a high performance aircraft agrees with what Ivo says about that prop. I just don't want to have any extra confusion about the Ivoprop left on the RV-list. The Ivoprop Magnum prop is designed for high performance aircraft (200 mph+) with engines having up to 450 hp. (Actually, there is an airboat which has a 600+ hp engine using a six bladed Ivoprop Magnum prop.) Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs - Flight test
---SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote: > ---------- snip ----------- > >>everything seems to point to cs prop and 320 as being a nice, > >economical, but > >>still high performance combo. Any other opinions? > > > >Yes, I think the 320/CS is a better combo than 360/FP. Given the > >price > >differential between a used 320 and a used 360, I also think that the > >two > >alternatives will cost about the same. > > > >Best Regards, > >Dave Barnhart > >rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB > >Flying > > --------- snip --------- Since you can buy a new O-360 for a little more than > $1000 more than an O-320 I think the O-320/constant speed combination > would probably be a little more expensive but would also probably be > easier to find if you are shopping for used engines. > > It would still be my first choice. An RV with the O-320/constant speed > has excellent performance, and will probably come very close to matching > the performance #s of an RV with an O-360/fixed pitch prop. ---------- snip ---------- > One other consideration that I would like to add (some may disagree with > me) is that in real life service I believe the O-320 is a little more > fuel efficient in performance versus fuel burned than the O-360 is. > It is often said that "Ok I'll go with the 180 HP and then I can always > pull the power back a little and run with the 160 HP guys and burn the > same fuel". From my experience it doesn't work that way. ---------- snip ---------- > So if I had a choice... I would have a O-320/constant speed instead of an > O-360 with a fixed pitch prop. My 2 cents: I have an O-320 CS and would not trade it for an O-360 FP. Two friends that HAD RV-4's had that combination. The O-320 CS would out speed and climb the O-360 fix pitch. On an April or May 1998 flight of two RV-6s from CCB to North Las Vegas and back, an O-320 CS, Carb, Bendix Mags vrs O-360 CS, Fuel Injection, one Light Speed Electronic ignition, one Bendix mag, 4 in to One cross over exhaust, and Lycon soup-ed up overhauled engine had the following results. Northeast bound ground speed 172 Knots @ 7,500 , Southwest bound ground speed was 148 knots at 8,500 both aircraft stayed within 1/4 mile except the last 50 Nm. Both aircraft had full fuel on departure and filled at the same fuel island on return. Hobbs time was 3 hours round trip. Fuel burn was 26.4 for the 160 O-320 and 26.3 for the 180 O-360 soup-ed up engine. Lycoming performance charts for the two engines show that a stock O-360 will burn less pounds of fuel per horsepower produced when operated at the same horsepower output of the O-320. One flight does not make a valid test but it leads me to believe that the fuel burn will be the same at the same airspeed or the O-360 will burn more fuel if ignition, carburation and exhaust are the same. BTW, my O-320 ran up and back at full throttle and 2,500 RPM. (8.8 GPH) I few in formation with an O-320 Props Inc wood prop RV-4 from Westover to CNO last weekend. We both had full fuel when we left. Will be filling up together next weekend when I get my -6 back. I am interested in learing what the difference in fuel burn was. The north bound trip, I burned 2 gallons more but was not full when we departed. IMHO, if I buy cheap, it is a used O-320 with NEW CS prop. (I am CHEAP!) If I were to buy NEW everything, (money no object) it would be O-360 CS. Having flow both CS and fix pitched RV's, I would like what ever I am flying at the time. I like my RV but I love my Constant Speed Prop. == Gary A. Sobek RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: David and Beth Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall insulation
>I just finished installing the firewall insulation/soundproofing I bought >from George Orndorff some time ago. The sound level in the cockpit is >significantly lower now. One other good source for insulation is John McMahon at http://www.rv6@earthlink.net I installed one of his kits that came with templates, instructions, etc. For those interested, drop him a line for more info. I am totally satisfied with the product. Dave RV-6A Flying - Nashville ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pmartin Compaq" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Help on IO 360 Offer
Date: May 24, 1998
Dear Bill, Based on what it cost me to buy my IO360A1B6 first run out and what it is costing me for a quality overhaul and also what a new constant speed prop costs, I believe it will cost well over 20,000 dollars to duplicate this package. It this engine setup etc. has a quality overhaul and not a Dupont major after a prop- strike, $15,000 would be cheap. The single mag is no problem if you convert to a Lightspeed Electronic ignition. Dick Martin RV8 N233M 80124 Airftrame basically complete, installing innards ---------- > From: William H. Watson <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net> > To: RV List > Subject: RV-List: Help on IO 360 Offer > Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 11:36 PM > > > A guy I know stopped by the hanger and offered to sell his used IO 360 > A1B6D. He says: "what will you offer for it?" I try to act coy and say > I guess one could be stuffed in an RV 6A and will do some research and > get back to him. > > It has 150 hours since a major overhaul, with about 1400 since new. It > includes a constant speed prop, governor, spin-on oil filter, Bendix dual > mag, starter, alternator, etc. > > Assuming it is in OK shape (I wouldn't assume anything, but for purposes > of ballparking the price), what kind of bucks are we looking at? > > I plan to look in the archives to see if it will fit in my 6. I thinks > there are some issues with the induction system plumbing? > > Thanks for your help. > > Skinning left wing. > > William H. Watson > wmwatson(at)earthlink.net > H: 650 254-1656 > W: 408 553-4225 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
>I almost agree entirely with Dave (he is a good friend so I'm sure he >wont mind :) ). Since you can buy a new O-360 for a little more than >$1000 more than an O-320 I think the O-320/constant speed combination >would probably be a little more expensive but would also probably be >easier to find if you are shopping for used engines. Yup, Scott's a good friend and I don't mind ;-) I was speaking of prices for USED lycomings, however. When I was looking at used Lycomings, I found a $4K-5K difference between comperable used 320s and 360s. >If I were building on a limited budget, but was still determined >to make the best overall RV that I could I would do the following... It's also interesting to note that Scott's thinking and mine are pretty close. (It must have something to do with what the Arizona heat does to one's brain) I have cover-plates where the gyros would be (I figure that omitting the gyros and vacuum system saves $1800 and 15 pounds). I have reserved space for VOR heads and other goodies, but have a basic VFR Day/Night airplane. I use the RMI uMonitor for engine instrumentation (and LOVE it, by the way). I *did* spend a little extra on a PM2000 stereo intercom, Blaupunkt CD player, and Bose headset. For avionics I have a King KLX135A GPS/COM and a Transponder/Encoder (RMI uEncoder). Even with the B&C lightweight alternator and starter, the airplane (with the CS prop) is not as light as I would like it to be (1057 pounds). Best Regards, Dave Barnhart RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
In a message dated 5/24/98 10:41:58 PM Central Daylight Time, rver(at)caljet.com writes: << Jim I am seeing Lorans for sale in Trade A Plane for $250-$350. For that price I am thinking of getting one to use with my handheld as a backup. Are there any cons to watch out for? Any suggestions on what type of used Loran to get? Regards, Tom Velvick RV-6a (Finishing $#@# fuel tanks for the 3rd time ) Phoenix, AZ >> I think that the II Morrow 618TCA is the best unit available and has the best database. I looked at them all before I bought mine (before GPS) and paid $2800. for it. If you can find one for $350. it would be a bargain. The only down side I see now that I have a good GPS is that it is slower to update (on the order of several seconds) vs the update every second for the GPS. Jim Cone RV-6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: sensenich prop
MICHAEL wrote: > > > A man came to the airport yesterday and said he has a lot of time > in an rv-4 another man owns. He said it had a 150 in it with a > wooden prop (unknown manu.). He said it would do 185 at 8000 > feet, full throttle. He then put the new metal f.p. prop on it > and the top speed went to 230 mph. The best and cheapest way to make our airplanes perform better is to lie about how fast they go. :-) with a 150hp he did not get that kind of performance increase. > He said the rpm restriction has been removed from the new models > of the metal prop. Is this true? The 2600 rpm limit has not be removed from the O-320 prop, he may have heard about the prop for the O-360 which it appears at this time will not have the rpm restriction. > I tried a 72" pitch and got 2950 rpm's, 76" pitch and got > 2850 rpm's. He is now making me a 82" pitch prop that is really > for a 180 horse engine. This is on a 150 hp engine. You did not say what the length is? And which prop maker? Some of the prop makers measure each station a little differently. Sensenich wood props have numbers that are not even close to anyone else. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 24, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Cowling clearance from Exhaust ?
> >I have a 0-360 with Vetterman Crossover exhaust. On the left side the >Clearance is 1/2 to 5/8" between exhaust and cowling for about 6 to 8 inches. >Should the cowling be protected with some kind of heat shield or is this >sufficient clearance? If so what is best way to do this? > > Don Pfeiffer > RV6 > donp(at)scruznet.com Don, ... if you think it's too close to the glass cowling, the fix is actually quite easy. Add a layer of "Fiberfrax" (sp?) This is a ceramic type cloth that just gets added to the inside of the cowling and prevents any cowl warping or exterior paint blistering (check the undersides of some RV cowls sometime...:^) Aircraft $pruce sells it, and it must be good since the composite folks use it as firewall material. I know of at least one RV3 and one RV6A that needed this. ... good luck ... Gil (an ounce of prevention) Alexander tail details RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd. finish kit Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Clecoes
Date: May 24, 1998
From: "S. R. Hales" <hales(at)garlic.com>
San Jose, CA and vicinity listers: Does anyone have excess clecoes he would like to part with? I think I'll need at least 200 more to finish my wing. Reply directly please. Sherm Hales Finally back to work ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
Date: May 24, 1998
> >> What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib >> before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? > >I used a jigsaw. Not the neatest, most circular hole, but it's >functional, the right size, and no-one's going to see it anyway. > >See http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny2c.htm for >other tank-construction tips. > >Frank. Frank, I used a fly cutter. I clamped the rib to a piece of wood of sufficient width, centered the cutter and slowed the drill press down as much as possible. It came out perfect...although it won't be seen anyway. You can find a suitable fly cutter at a home supply store in the tool department (I just LOOOVE that place), which will also be used for other operations (instrument cutouts, lightening holes, etc). Enjoy! Oh, and use GLOVES when applying tank sealant! Latex, non-powdered surgical gloves can be found at medical supply houses. Brian Denk -8 #379 fuselage on the way. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Cowling clearance from Exhaust ?
><< I have a 0-360 with Vetterman Crossover exhaust. On the left side the > Clearance is 1/2 to 5/8" between exhaust and cowling for about 6 to 8 inches. > Should the cowling be protected with some kind of heat shield or is this > sufficient clearance? If so what is best way to do this? >> > >I have the same setup. > >First of all, try to rotate the exit pipes in their ball joints so that you >have maximized the clearance from the lower cowl in this area. In the most >optimum position, this caused the "turn downs" on the pipe ends to toe in a >little bit. The two Robbins muffs (narrowest eccentric side) now clear either >side of the cowling by about 3/8". > >The muffs make good heat shields. > >-GV GV (or others), I also have this setup. I have noticed that the Robbins muff is not a tight fit on the exhaust even with the clamps done up maximally. It is possible to hand rotate the muff with not much force. Does this mean that under gravity and vibration the muff will gradually rotate and slide distally? If so what techniques have people used to make the muff "stick" to the pipe? Cheers, Leo Davies ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: F-675 Top Skin
Date: May 24, 1998
Someone mentioned laying out your rivet spacing and drilling the holes. Then placing your top skin in place and position it then back drilling into the skin itself rather than drawing all your lines on the skin then measuring your rivet spacing and drilling. I'm working on a RV6A-QB rear top skin. Anybody try this method? Mike Comeaux RV6QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DAVENDANA1 <DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Crimpers
Call "The Yard" in Witchita KS. Great prices on Amp T-Heads and also sheetmetal tools ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DAVENDANA1 <DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
Big question is are they still supporting the database? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
Date-warning: Date header was inserted by cc.newcastle.edu.au
From: Carol Richards <crcar(at)cc.newcastle.edu.au>
Subject: RV-List re: hole cutting
The humble jeweler's saw is a quick answer to the cutting of odd shaped or odd sized holes. This type of saw is similar to a coping saw except the blades are clamped in position rather than with the use of hooks and lugs. These are available from hobby shops and jewelry tool suppliers. A wide variety of blade grades can be had - from the coarsness of coping saw blades to teeth so fine you need a magnifier to see them. Need a square hole in a panel for a switch? Forget about countless drill holes and a file. It can be cut out to nearly the exact size then finished with a fine file. The blades come in packs of 12 or 144 and (as implied) are easily broken until you get used to them. To start a cut in the middle of a piece of material, drill a small hole in the waste section; unclamp one end of the blade; pass it through the hole and reclamp. Saw the hole and unclamp to extract the blade. Blades need to be clamped under tension, so before you tighten the clamp push the tip of the saw frame against a solid surface to 'flex' it slightly, then clamp and withdraw the pressure. The blade should sound with a 'ping' when plucked like a harp. If not, try retensioning. Regards, Sam (RV-6 wings in jig) Newcastle Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: F Mark40 <FMark40(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Lycoming 0-320 Crank AD
In a message dated 5/23/98 5:31:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fasching(at)chaffee.net writes: > BTW a past issue of Sport Aviation had a detailed article on how to > remove the plug, and reseat a new one, etc. It was a Tony Benglis > article. I can get more specific if anyone wants details. It is also in Tony's Engine book. Mark McGee RV4 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: sensenich prop
Date: May 25, 1998
> A man came to the airport yesterday and said he has a lot of time > in an rv-4 another man owns. He said it had a 150 in it with a > wooden prop (unknown manu.). He said it would do 185 at 8000 > feet, full throttle. He then put the new metal f.p. prop on it > and the top speed went to 230 mph. Michael, I've got some beach front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Pitot line fitting, Tank attach angle
Date: May 25, 1998
Re the length of the inboard end of the pitot line: I ran it to the side of the fuselage and installed a bulkhead fitting on the fuselage. I flared the inboard end of the aluminum line and attached it to the fitting. I will run a plastic tube from the airspeed indicator to the fuselage fitting. Re flaring the outboard end of the pitot tube: I pushed the tube out into the inspection hole and flared it in there. I think you could pull it through to open air above the skin, but watch that you don't crimp the tube in the process. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont RV-6A fuselage in the jig, wings on, landing gear mounts drilled, looking for things to do before taking the wings off again -----Original Message----- 2. How long should the pitot line be? Does it need to extend any further inboard than the inboard end of the fuel tank? What fitting goes on the inboard end of it? The plans only show it as far as Sta. 44. 3. To flare the pitot tube end, did you push it out the hole in the spar? Or maybe through the inspection hole in the skin? I'd guess (but haven't tried) that after flaring it won't fit through the plastic grommets in the ribs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Overhaul
Date: May 25, 1998
Listers, When I decided to do my own overhaul all I could think about was saving money. I even bragged to Bob Steward about how cheap doing it myself could be. Well I've compiled a list of parts and prices. ( I thought some of you would like for reference ) You'll notice that there isn't much of the old engine left. QTY Part No. Description Price 4 SL-32000-A20P Millennium Cylinders 3999.84 8 SL78027 Rod Bolts 140.00 8 SL12186 Rod Bolt Nuts 17.92 4 SL69603 Hose 11.45 4 SL-STD-2180 Hose 3.36 1 SL53E19600 Vernatherm Valve 165.62 1 SL61084 Oil Press Spring 5.41 8 SL78290 Hydrolic Plungers 253.46 4 SL13444-1 Piston Pins 152.40 8 SL12892 Thrust Buttons 17.92 8 MM56S Drain Clamps 16.30 8 SL15592-8-28 Intake Clamps 15.06 1 SL61174A Oil Pump Shaft 112.00 1 SL76121 Tach Drive Shaft 101.86 1 AL05K19423-S Oil Pump Impeller Kit 200.27 1 SL69371-1 Major Overhaul Gaskets 149.95 1 SL78258 Oil Pump Housing 162.43 8 SL61662 Rod Bearings 99.28 8 SL68763A Main Bearings 148.88 1qt G-5436-EQ Lycoming Gray Paint 13.84 1 4370 Slick Magneto 485.00 1 4371 Slick Magneto 524.00 1 MA4SPA Fact. Rebuilt Carb. 539.00 1 LW15472 Lycoming Fuel Pump 189.00 1 S-400 High torque Starter 198.00 1 Line Bored, Lapped, Certified Crankcase ECI 780.00 1 Polished, Certified Crank ECI 276.00 1 Rebuit Rockers,Rods,Lifters, gears etc. ECI 429.50 1 AS18840 New Camshaft 581.30 1 Shipping Costs 335.00 TOTAL $10124.05 Hope this gives you an idea of what you're getting into if you decide to do your own overhaul. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Subject: first flight
I know that this is the RV list but since I have owned a RV4 and still follow the list I am going to report the first flight of my new airlplane. On May 21, C-GCAZ took to the air. This is a Harmon Rocket and it is everything that I could have hoped for. In the air, at RV speeds, if you were to close your eyes you would swear that you were still flying the RV4. This is not surprising as both aircraft use the same airfoil. Theaircraft is very fast but those speeds comes with a price, that price being gph. On saturday I flew with a flight of four RVs that came to visit me, thanks guys, and at the same speed as they were flying I used the same fuel per hour as I did in my RV4 180hp fixed pitch. This was a pleasant surprise, and confirms that that at a given speed, a certain hp is being used and fuel used is directly related to hp used. The point being if fuel use gets to be a problem for me I can just fly slower and still chase most things out of the sky! At this point I have 10 hours on the aircraft. I have not explored the upper limits but it stalls 5mph faster then my RV4 did in all configurations. Very similiar to a heavy RV6 in that regard. Why did I build a Harmon Rocket? I wanted to build again and did not want to build the same thing. I like tandem seating, thus not a RV6. Why the rocket and not an RV8? When I started the Rocket, seventeen months ago, not all the kits were available for the 8. As well the performance numbers of the eight were not that much better then my RV4. I am however probably going to build again, something different again, who knows! Tom Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: F-675 Top Skin
mcomeaux wrote: > > Someone mentioned laying out your rivet spacing and drilling the holes. > Then placing your top skin in place and position it then back drilling into > the skin itself rather than drawing all your lines on the skin then > measuring > your rivet spacing and drilling. I'm working on a RV6A-QB rear top skin. > Anybody try this method? > > Mike Comeaux RV6QB > Mike - Drill all your holes on pattern into the substructure first and then back drill the skin. There is adequate room in the tail cone of a RV-6 but could get a little tight in an RV-4. I don't know about the RV-8 . Back drilling will ensure that you don't miss or wander off the stringers & ribs the way it is possible to do by front drilling through the skin. I found that back drilling is much faster too as the skin needs placing only once. Get a helper to hold a block of wood against the skin for you to drill into. This will stop the skin from 'floating up' under the drilling pressure and will the helper can install the clecos too. My entire upper skins were drilled in about 45 minutes. Have fun building. Doug Murray - RV-6 - engine compartment Sunny Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: crank plug
<F0236224BD23D1118EE400805F14C05D029AD8@admin-nt.iis-intell ect.com> >>Remember before you get ahead of yourself that you must put the rear plug >>in *BEFORE* hanging that new expensive C/S prop!! >>Bob Steward, A&P IA > >The new engines from Van's have the back plug in place (as well as the >front), so for these you need only to remove the front plug if you are >installing a CSU. My understanding is that if you are converting an engine >that has been running a fixed pitch you then need to add the rear plug >behind the oil return bar. > > I am prepared to bow to your superior knowledge on this but I think what I >am saying is correct. >Leo Davies If they come that way from Van, Great! But if your engine isnn't from Van then you'll need to check that the rear plug is installed or you'll be very unhappy when you first try to chage pitch on the prop. :-( Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: X-country flying
>I am seeing Lorans for sale in Trade A Plane for $250-$350. For that >price I am thinking of getting one to use with my handheld as a backup. >Are there any cons to watch out for? Any suggestions on what type of used >Loran to get? > >Regards, >Tom Velvick >RV-6a (Finishing $#@# fuel tanks for the 3rd time ) >Phoenix, AZ Tom, The main downside of Loran is the constant threat by the Coast Guard to shut down all Loran chains in the near future. If you are sealing tanks now, there is a good chance that Loran will be out of service by the time you are ready to fly, or shortly thereafter. I agree that you should have a backup to a handheld GPS for navigation if you plan on long trips with the RV. In the panel, I installed a King KX-125 Nav-Com. This is the small unit with a built in CDI. My primary means of navigation is a Garmin GPSMAP 195, with the King VOR receiver as a backup/ secondary means. On almost all trip (100 nm+), I have used both the GPS and VOR's. Sometimes it is just easier to dial in a VOR freq, center the CDI (just press a button on the KX-125) and fly to a station than it is to fumble with the GPS and program in a waypoint. Just my $0.02. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV (Flying) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Cowling clearance from Exhaust ?
<< I have noticed that the Robbins muff is not a tight fit on the exhaust even with the clamps done up maximally. It is possible to hand rotate the muff with not much force. >> I also have the Robbins heat muff on the right side of the Vetterman exhaust. It will rotate by hand with a little force, but I've been told that once the exhaust comes up to temp, it expands. If the clamps are too tight, it can cause cracking. One thing I found with my exhaust, is the slip joint below the #3 cylinder is blowing exhaust gas up on the underside of the cylinder. I found exhaust residue on the spark plug, and I can see on my egt probe clamp, a hot spot where the gas is blowing across it. This joint is very loose. I'm trying to find a way to try and expand the inner pipe, or shrink the outer one in order to reduce the clearance, and stop the leak. All of the other slip joints seem to be sealing up ok during operating conditions. The testing continues....... Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV s/n 22960 MLaboyteau(at)aol.com Broken Arrow, Ok ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
Date: May 25, 1998
>>would rather have a constant speed prop on an 0-320 than a fixed pitch on a >>0-360? >One other consideration that I would like to add (some may disagree with >me) is that in real life service I believe the O-320 is a little more >fuel efficient in performance versus fuel burned than the O-360 is. Scott and others: Is it true, that the 0-320 can be certified to burn autogas, while the 0-360 can not be certified for autogas? If this is the case, than Scott's and others argument would have one more positive point for using the 0-320, particularly loocking in to the future of AC fuel supplies.! Any comments? Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage|| TW and I very much respect his opionon. Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage|| ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Aileron gap seals
Date: May 25, 1998
The plans show the gap seal butting the rear of the rear spar flang with a second row of rivets about half way back on the top skin overhang. This installation would require trimming the flat (top) part of the gap seal about 1". Seems to me that the gap seal was made to slip under the top skin between the skin and the top of the rear spar and riveted with the top skin.This would omit the need for the extra row of rivets. Some one out there in RV Land please advise! Thanks, Tommy 6-A Wings Ridgetop, TN ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: F-675 Top Skin
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 25, 1998
>Someone mentioned laying out your rivet spacing and drilling the >holes. >Then placing your top skin in place and position it then back drilling >into >the skin itself rather than drawing all your lines on the skin then >measuring >your rivet spacing and drilling. I'm working on a RV6A-QB rear top >skin. >Anybody try this method? > > >Mike Comeaux RV6QB > > > I build whole RV-6(A) fuselages this way. Be sure you clamp something to the bulkheads to make sure they stay in the correct position. Something that works good for this is use some of the crate plywood and make a false bulkhead with the center cut out of it that will allow the installation of some clamps around the perimeter. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: sensenich prop
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 25, 1998
> >A man came to the airport yesterday and said he has a lot of time >in an rv-4 another man owns. He said it had a 150 in it with a >wooden prop (unknown manu.). He said it would do 185 at 8000 >feet, full throttle. He then put the new metal f.p. prop on it >and the top speed went to 230 mph. He said the rpm restriction >has been removed from the new models of the metal prop. Is this >true? Is this speed change possible? Hard for me to believe, >but, you never know. Michael. - Maybe the airplane had never been flown in a straight at the ground attitude before... seriously, it maybe possible (though I doubt it) for this speed change if he assumed that the RPM restriction being lifted (which it hasn't as far as I know) meant that he could now turn 3600 RPM with the sensenich prop. If you see this person again, suggest to them that they call Sensenich and ask about the rpm restriction. I believe Ken published in the last RVator that Sensenich might look into removing the restriction because they have some more advanced test equipment that wasn't used in testing the O-320 prop back when they did all of the work developing it. >One other question. Is there anything else that would make a >prop overspeed at wide open throttle other than too little >pitch? I tried a 72" pitch and got 2950 rpm's, 76" pitch and got >2850 rpm's. He is now making me a 82" pitch prop that is really >for a 180 horse engine. This is on a 150 hp engine. And the >tach has been checked. Climb has been really good, but top speed >has only been about 185, with the 76" pitch. I suppose if the >plane was too draggy it would just bog the engine down instead of >turn too many rpm's. The prop maker doesn't understand it. He >thinks I have more hp than 150. I guess I will find out, if it >doesn't turn the bigger prop. > > > I don't have any ideas for you but I would bet the list would like to know who this prop maker is? Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Cowling clearance from Exhaust ?
<< I have noticed that the Robbins muff is not a tight fit on the exhaust even with the clamps done up maximally. It is possible to hand rotate the muff with not much force. Does this mean that under gravity and vibration the muff will gradually rotate and slide distally? If so what techniques have people used to make the muff "stick" to the pipe? >> Leo- I routed the SCAT tubing (the 2" stuff is pretty stiff) inside the engine mount tubing so that it holds the muffs at the correct clocking for max clearance. If I rotate them forcibly, they rotate right back. A trick that you might consider is to tweek the inside radius flange on the end plates so that they grab tighter on the pipe when to cinch up the hose clamps. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: First Flight of C-GLRV
good job and congrates, its nice to here the female side for once, i'm printing this e-mail as we speak to show my wife for encouragement through this project scott reviere winging it in Tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Cowling clearance from Exhaust ?
<< One thing I found with my exhaust, is the slip joint below the #3 cylinder is blowing exhaust gas up on the underside of the cylinder. I found exhaust residue on the spark plug, and I can see on my egt probe clamp, a hot spot where the gas is blowing across it. This joint is very loose. I'm trying to find a way to try and expand the inner pipe, or shrink the outer one in order to reduce the clearance, and stop the leak. >> Mark- I have observed the same thing. It's not a big deal, but I think Larry expands the outer tubes a little too much for the inner tubing OD. Let us know what you find works for you. I was thinking of taking the inside pipes to a muffler shop in hopes they could expand the ends just slightly. This is one of those rainy day projects. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seals
TOMMY E. WALKER wrote: > > > The plans show the gap seal butting the rear of the rear spar flang > with a > second row of rivets about half way back on the top skin overhang. > This > installation would require trimming the flat (top) part of the gap > seal > about 1". Seems to me that the gap seal was made to slip under the top > skin > between the skin and the top of the rear spar and riveted with the top > > skin.This would omit the need for the extra row of rivets. Some one > out > there in RV Land please advise! > > Thanks, > Tommy > 6-A Wings > Ridgetop, TN > Tommy, Your first thoughts are correct. You do have to trim about an inch and install a second row of rivits. You can avoid pop rivits however if you slightly pull down the forward edge and back rivit the seal to the wing skin. Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage Cupertino, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net>
Subject: Re: Help on IO 360 Offer
I recently purchased a used IO-360 for $15,000. It has about 120 hrs. since a Mattituck Overhaul. It came with a new crank, new mags, new fuel pump, overhauled starter, alternator, prop governor, and fuel servo. It did not have a prop. I don't think I got a steal, but I feel the price was fair, and Mattutuck sent me a list of everything they did to it. I think that who did the overhaul is very important. A used constant speed Hartzell is worth about $2500 in good shape from a salvage yard. Jim Cimino RV-8 sn 80039 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771 (717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
Howdy; I have been following this thread, and must expose my ignorance. What is a wing leveler? I assume that it is some sort of gyro that will literally keep your wings level hands off? What does it entail to install one, and is it best to do while constructing the wing and/or fuselage? Also, is this something that must be tied into a GPS? Thanks in advance for enlightening me. From the sound of it, I would probably be well advised to install one. Who makes them, anyway? Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 Left Elevator Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: first flight
Date: May 25, 1998
>I am however probably >going to build again, something different again, who knows! > >Tom Martin > Tom, I don't have to fly a pink airplane..... A Rocket would look really good in my hanger........ Just waiting....... Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
In a message dated 5/25/98 12:14:19 AM Central Daylight Time, Kerrjb(at)aol.com writes: << Jim, Thanks for the input on lessons learned. What other visual instruments sources for holding the airplane level do you have? Bernie Kerri, 6A fuselage, SE Fla >> I have a full IFR panel with a vacuum attitude indicator and an electric turn coordinator, which, BTW, will be for sale when I get my Navaid Devices wing leveler installed. Make me an offer off the list if you are interested. It should be available in 10 weeks, which is the lead time for the wing leveler. Jim Cone RV-6A flying great ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Fwd: Smoke Haze
--part0_896126422_boundary Leo Davies sent this to me and I thought that the list would be interested too. Jim Cone --part0_896126422_boundary with SMTP id CAA06925 for ; Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:23:21 From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> Subject: Smoke Haze Jim, I was very interested to read your post. When I was a low time (VFR only) pilot I got caught by smoke haze in Northern Australia. There had been big fires several hundred miles from our flight path. There was no visibility advisory in the forecast. We took off and after an hour or so noticed that the horizon was "soft". As we flew on the horizon became more and more difficult to identify and the perimeter of the ground underneath us became smaller. From 10,000 feet we gradually had the smallest patch of ground visible underneath us. Then we were IFR with no horizon at all in any direction. Fortunately there were two of us (both with less than 100 hours). I flew the plane while the guy on the right navigated, corrected the DG etc. We made a slow careful 180 and flew back the way we had come. It took an hour to regain a horizon by which time I was getting aprehensive that we had flown into some antipodean version of hades. I now have my IFR rating and my 6A will have all the gear. I have never forgotten how insidiously easy it was to transition to IFR flight without making a conscious decision. I owe much to my ab initio instructor who had spent more time than is required with me "flying on the clocks". Cheers, Leo Davies --part0_896126422_boundary-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
In a message dated 5/25/98 4:29:16 AM Central Daylight Time, DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com writes: Big question is are they still supporting the database? >> You have to ask II Morrow. I would think that they do. Jim Cone ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Cutting hole in tank rib for T-407
Date: May 25, 1998
From: "William H. Watson" <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net>
I can't resist replying to this one, as no one has mentioned what I use... I bought the 1/4" Aircraft Taper Pin Router Bit, p/n 933-4 from Avery, $9.00. Chuck it up in your die grinder and you have an instant, hand-held, milling machine. It's like a Dremmel on steroids. Rough cut the shape or the hole, finish to final dimentions in minutes. So far, I have used it on the tank access hole, tank forward 1/4" angle flange, landing light hole, and push rod hole in rear wing spar. Clamp the work well. A short learning curve is needed to avoid chatter. Second "tip of the day:" get the Cleaveland 10' lightweight hose and coupler kit, ACIT, $20. Those air tool swivels and heavy hoses (at the tool level) are a thing of the past. Wish I had this when I started building. > >What are people using to cut the 5-3/8" dia hole in the T-403 tank rib >before mounting the T-407 tank access reinforcement ring? My hole cutter >only goes up to 4" and I looked at Lowes and they have hole cutters for >plumbing that go up to 4-1/2" max. Bill Watson RV6A, wings Reid Hillview, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
As to shutting down Loran, the rest of the world is very much opposed to shutting down the system and depending on the US to provide GPS coverage for everyone. Now, they have control of the stations in their parts of the world, but would loose control if Loran went away. I think that AOPA and other organizations will prevail in having continuing funding of Loran for some time in the future. Jim Cone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: X-country flying
In a message dated 5/25/98 3:00:11 PM Central Daylight Time, jorear(at)mari.net writes: Howdy; I have been following this thread, and must expose my ignorance. What is a wing leveler? I assume that it is some sort of gyro that will literally keep your wings level hands off? What does it entail to install one, and is it best to do while constructing the wing and/or fuselage? Also, is this something that must be tied into a GPS? Thanks in advance for enlightening me. From the sound of it, I would probably be well advised to install one. Who makes them, anyway? Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 Left Elevator Peshtigo, WI >> Navaid Devices makes a wing leveler which is a single axis autopilot that will keep the wings level and hold a heading or a GPS/Loran/VOR/ILS course. Check the Yeller Pages for other makers of autopilots. I just ordered mine from Navaid and they said the lead time was 10 weeks. Jim Cone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Crimpers
> >Starting to think about electrical wiring and wondering if anyone has >advice on crimpers for the wiring terminals. I understand that I will need >one that does a double crimp and they are expensive. > >Thanks. >George McNutt, Langley B.C. >6-A, fuel tanks. > George, Talk to Bob at the Aeroelectric Connection (or go to his web page) and buy one of his crimping tools. This is not an area you want to cut any corners on. Just think of all those electrical connections vibrating their way loose over time. Bob's tool is excellent and provides a solid, professional crimp. I'm sure you can find the tool elsewhere if you look, but Bob's service is so good I wouldn't waste my time. Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel" RV-6 Wiring and other Stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PANNAIR <PANNAIR(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
Will-- I stuck my probe in the NACA vent on the right side! I drilled up from the bottom about an inch back from the opening so you couldn't see it. I made the hole a few thousandths undersized and added a tad of RTV when I inserted it, seems very secure. Haven't tested it yet so can't give you any final details. Dave--- RV6 hoping for Sept. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Damm" <relav(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: FOR SALE: Completed RV-6A
Date: May 25, 1998
For Sale - RV-6A Professionally built, professionally painted, O-360 150 TTSN. KX-155 Nav-com, Garmin 150 GPS, Narco AT-150 transponder, ACK ELT, electric flaps, electric trim, sliding canopy. Full gyro panel, full dual controls. Immaculate condition. Based in Phoenix, AZ - $68,000 Days - 602-732-5995 Eves - 602-899-6809 professionally Narco AT-150 trim, sliding Based in Phoenix, ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: zeko(at)up.bresnan.net
Subject: Re: X-country flying
Lothar Klingmuller wrote: > > > > > I just took my first really long trip in my RV-6A and had a great time. I > >learned a few things that I thought that I would share. First, VFR conditions > >do not always mean VFR flying. > > > Three miles visibility with haze can > >make it nearly impossible to fly without IFR instrumentation unless you want > > Jim, thanks for sharing your experience. > > I just returned from Honduras (4 days late) which has also a big haze > problems. 4 days no comercial airplanes. I was ready to take a banana boat > for the return. This trip and comments and experience like yours convince > me, that as a serious VFR cross country and night VFR flyer, a wing leveler > is a must. > > RV-listers: Jim is a comercial pilot with TW and I very much respect his > opionon. > > Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage|| > I'm new to the list and intend to build an Rv6qb. A friend (Dave} and I just went on our first long trip in his Mooney. We traveled from Michigan to L.A. That's right L.A. airspace! The whole trip was a challenge and the most execiting adventure of my life. Weather, desert thermals,headwind, mountains, unfamiliar airports,rain, and lots of cockpit work and flight planning for a low time IFR pilot (Dave) and his nonlicensed but very knowledgeable copilot(me). WE took fifteen hours over two days going out and 11 hours in one day returning. One day rest in between. Don't be afraid to charge ahead and try it. We found the control center people helpful and very kind to us rookies. Don,t be afraid to file a flightplan and learn comm. skills. In fact just do it! Good judgement, caution, and courage moved us one giant step foward in our aviation lives. We did pretty good if I say so myself. Jim D. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Aaron Gleixner <agleix(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Priming Nutplates
Date: May 25, 1998
I am getting ready to install the nutplates for the fuel tanks on my RV8 and was wondering if all these nutplates (outside the tank) need to be primed. There are 100+ nutplates for the wing kit and priming them all would take all day. If they need to be primed, is there an easy way of doing this? Cleaning all the nutplates, nailing all 100+ nutplates to a board, spraying the primer, turning over the nutplates, and then renailing and priming the other side seems extremely difficult. I would welcome any and all suggestions to make this easier. Thanks in advance. Aaron Gleixner RV-8A Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: RV-8 Crash?
Guys; I just found out a few minutes ago thru the grapevine here at Independence, Oregon Airpark that the factory RV-8 taildragger crashed (I think it was in California) and killed the pilot, who was not named, but was one of the factory guys. That is all I got on it, and I emphasize, this is not verified as yet. Will let the list know as soon as I find out anything else, unless someone else knows something more? Alot of the fellows here at Independence are very close to the Vans bunch, and that is how it was relayed to me. Will keep in touch. Von Alexander MAlexan533(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: David and Beth Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall insulation
One other good source for insulation is John McMahon at rv6(at)earthlink.net >I installed one of his kits that came with templates, instructions, etc. >For those interested, drop him a line for more info. I am totally satisfied >with the product. > >Dave RV-6A >Flying - Nashville > Correction to John McMahon's address. You can E-MAIL him at the above address, this is not a web site. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
In a message dated 5/25/98 5:31:37 PM Central Daylight Time, PANNAIR(at)aol.com writes: Will-- I stuck my probe in the NACA vent on the right side! I drilled up from the bottom about an inch back from the opening so you couldn't see it. I made the hole a few thousandths undersized and added a tad of RTV when I inserted it, seems very secure. Haven't tested it yet so can't give you any final details. Dave--- RV6 hoping for Sept. I put mine there and it works great. Jim Cone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location
>Will-- >I stuck my probe in the NACA vent on the right side! I drilled up from the >bottom about an inch back from the opening so you couldn't see it. I made the >hole a few thousandths undersized and added a tad of RTV when I inserted it, >seems very secure. Haven't tested it yet so can't give you any final details. >Dave--- >RV6 hoping for Sept. > > I have mine in the same location, but on the left side of the fuse. It is extremely accurate when the airplane is parked in the hanger. In flight, it is useless, it always reads high. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably mount it in the wing root fairing or out on the wing tip. One item on my "to do" list is to move this probe. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Limaluk <Limaluk(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Ivoprop Magnum
I have a solid crank O320 160hp. I am interested in changing props and would like to know if anyone has any experiences with the Ivoprop Magnum, or Sensenich fixed pitch that they can share, in comparison to a wood prop. Thanks. E. Luke/RV-6/20179 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs - Flight test
Date: May 25, 1998
>On an April or May 1998 flight of two RV-6s from CCB to North Las >Vegas and back, an O-320 CS, Carb, Bendix Mags vrs O-360 CS, Fuel >Injection, one Light Speed Electronic ignition, one Bendix mag, 4 in >to One cross over exhaust, and Lycon soup-ed up overhauled engine had >the following results. > >Northeast bound ground speed 172 Knots @ 7,500 , Southwest bound >ground speed was 148 knots at 8,500 both aircraft stayed within 1/4 >mile except the last 50 Nm. To everyone's replies: Thanks for the input on this subject. This is helping me come up with some answers to my own questions as to engine/prop combination that I am going to go with. Could I ask that, when speed comparisons are made, the comparisons be made in terms of true air speed? Ground speeds don't mean a thing to me because I don't know what kind of a headwind/tailwind component the aircraft is working with. Higher /lower outside air temps and higher/lower pressures (in.hg.) need to be taken into account. These factors will correct indicated air speed into true air speed. Some airspeed indicators have the correction for TAS built into them. This makes the calculation very easy. Thanks for the future info. Gary Baker RV-6 (Working on wings) N4GB (Reserved) Medina, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)mail.startext.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall insulation
> One other good source for insulation is John McMahon at > rv6(at)earthlink.net Is this insulation "closed cell" and will not absorb water or gasoline? Whatever insulation is installed, it should be verified that it is closed cell. Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Priming Nutplates
Not necessary as nut plates are passivated or treated. Even boeing doesn't prime them RV4 273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Subject: Navaid general ?s
Date: May 25, 1998
Listers; A couple of quick questions regarding the Navaid system as related to an RV-8: 1. Can the entire system be installed when finishing the fuselage, or are there parts that must go in the wings (where I am presently working)? 2. I plan on using my Garmin Pilot III as my GPS mounted horizontally on the glareshield and wired into the plane for power and antenna. How does the Navaid handheld GPS converter widget obtain the signal from the GPS unit? 3. Is there a comparable S-Tec product that should be considered alternatively? Thanks, Randy Lervold -8, #80500, both wings just jigged Vancouver, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MAlexan533 <MAlexan533(at)aol.com>
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: RV-8 Crash (more info)
Listers; I am trying to find out more about the RV-8 crash in California. A lister from California has heard the following on KNX1070 radio while driving in the Mojave Desert today. He stresses the fact that the radio had a lot of static and he did not get a complete report, so again, lets say that none of this is completely verified yet. They reported a fatal accident involving an RV-8 in the area of Ripley(?) California, and the name he believes he heard mentioned was John Morgan as the pilot. It was possibly a demo flight so there may be someone else involved, also. Von Alexander MAlexan533(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 25, 1998
>Scott and others: Is it true, that the 0-320 can be certified to >burn >autogas, while the 0-360 can not be certified for autogas? If this is >the >case, than Scott's and others argument would have one more positive >point >for using the 0-320, particularly loocking in to the future of AC >fuel >supplies.! > >Any comments? > > >The 150 HP O-320 is approved for auto fuel, it has a 7.0 to 1 comp. ratio. The 160 HP O-320 is not approved for auto fuel, It has an 8.5 to 1 comp. ratio. Though in amateur built aircraft certified or not you can do what you want. You don't need an auto fuel STC. Some have run auto fuel in the higher comp. engines using some care. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seals
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: May 25, 1998
> >The plans show the gap seal butting the rear of the rear spar flang >with a >second row of rivets about half way back on the top skin overhang. >This >installation would require trimming the flat (top) part of the gap >seal >about 1". Seems to me that the gap seal was made to slip under the top >skin >between the skin and the top of the rear spar and riveted with the top >skin.This would omit the need for the extra row of rivets. Some one >out >there in RV Land please advise! > > >Thanks, >Tommy >6-A Wings >Ridgetop, TN > > >This would probably cause a bump in the skin where it dropped off of the gap seal. Your right it is made too long. I believe this is necessary in the mfging process. I suggest you trim it down and install per the plans. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall insulation
This insulation does not absorb any liquid of any kind..Used by military/commerical aviation. John McMahon H.B.Aircraft 615-452-8742 Will Cretsinger wrote: > > > One other good source for insulation is John McMahon at > > rv6(at)earthlink.net > > Is this insulation "closed cell" and will not absorb water or gasoline? > Whatever insulation is installed, it should be verified that it is > closed cell. > > Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX > RV-6A > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Crimpers
> >Starting to think about electrical wiring and wondering if anyone has >advice on crimpers for the wiring terminals. I understand that I will need >one that does a double crimp and they are expensive. > >Thanks. >George McNutt, Langley B.C. >6-A, fuel tanks. Check our website catalog at: <http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/catalog.html> Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com>
Subject: Re: Priming Nutplates
Date: May 25, 1998
Hi Aaron, I really don't think the nutplates need to be primed. I did, however, prime most of mine. I just laid them all flat on a piece of cardboard and shot them with a couple of light coats of Zinc Chromate out of a can. Wait 20 minutes, flip them over and hit the other side. Didn't take long at all. Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96 ebundy@bigskytel.com - http://bigskytel.com/~ebundy/ > I am getting ready to install the nutplates for the fuel tanks on my RV8 and was wondering if all these nutplates (outside the tank) need to be primed. There are 100+ nutplates for the wing kit and priming them all would take all day. If they need to be primed, is there an easy way of doing this? Cleaning all the nutplates, nailing all 100+ nutplates to a board, spraying the primer, turning over the nutplates, and then renailing and priming the other side seems extremely difficult. I would welcome any and all suggestions to make this easier. Thanks in advance. > > Aaron Gleixner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
Lothar Klingmuller wrote: > Scott and others: Is it true, that the 0-320 can be certified to burn > autogas, while the 0-360 can not be certified for autogas? First off, certification is a moot point with experimentals -which is wonderful. What makes an engine capable of burning lower octane fuel is compression ratio basically. The O-360 engines have too high a compression ratio to use autofuel safely. There are two different pistons available for the O-320 series -one provides 160 hp and basically the same compression ratio as the O-360's. The other is a lower ratio piston which makes the engine 150 hp and able to run on autogas ALL DAY without a whimper (assuming other factors such as vaporlock don't come into play). I have heard that low compression pistons are available for the 360's (developed for third world countries, etc.) but have never actually seen such. Oh, and by the way, lower compression ratios also mean lower volumetric efficiency. So you'll have a higher fuel burn/hp with the 150 hp 320 than the 160 version. But it's still MUCH cheaper to run on autofuel even when using a little more of it. Scott IN 150 hp -4 hopefully flying again soon. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz>
Subject: Paint scheme on PC - how do you do it?
Date: May 26, 1998
I've had a few requests from people about how I did my intended paint scheme at my website, so I thought I'd post it here for anyone who may be interested - my apologies if people consider this off topic. The image involved a bit of trial and error - I'm sure there are better ways, and it was just a quick hack - I'm no artist nor Photoshop wrangler. I scanned the heck out of the side profile in Van's info pack (another alternative would have been to download the DXF file from their website). Anyway, scanned as line art at 500 dpi into Photoshop (overall width is about 2500 pixels from memory). Increased colour depth to full RGB. (Scanned as line art to reduce fill artifacts later on). Did the blue parts as solid colour fills, then selected each of them in turn using the magic wand and applied a simple linear gradiant (from blue to white). I filled the canopy with a light gray, selected that colour using the magic wand and applied a radial gradient (gray to white). Erased the propellor lines and ground reference lines. Scanned and cut and paste the eagle into place. When all ready, reduced the image size to about 20% of it's original size - this smooths everything out and does rudimentary antialiasing. Saved the result as a jpeg with minimum compression and put it onto the web server. Most of the work is done (before the final image resize) with the image zoomed out at about 50% or 33%. I've talked about Photoshop here, but PaintShop Pro has the same tricks and tools, and is a good piece of cheap shareware if you don't have Photoshop. Hey, when you look at it, it looks just like any other post (just swap rivets for pixels, prime for resize and alodyne for adobe) *big grin* I know, I know, I should spend more time in the workshop and and less time in front of the keyboard... Chris ____ Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995 Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751 Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz 442 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Crash (more info)
Date: May 25, 1998
>Listers; I am trying to find out more about the RV-8 crash in California. A >lister from California has heard the following on KNX1070 radio while driving >in the Mojave Desert today. He stresses the fact that the radio had a lot of >static and he did not get a complete report, so again, lets say that none of >this is completely verified yet. They reported a fatal accident involving an >RV-8 in the area of Ripley(?) California, and the name he believes he heard >mentioned was John Morgan as the pilot. It was possibly a demo flight so there >may be someone else involved, also. >Von Alexander >MAlexan533(at)aol.com > All, PLLEEEEEAAASE tell me this isn't true. This kind of news we should never hear. I'm hoping someone from Van's will post something here quickly. I have looked at the NTSB site and found no record of any incidents today..at least as of 2100 hrs, Mountain time zone. My prayers and best wishes to all... Brian Denk -8 #379 wings almost done ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com>
Subject: RV-8 (N58RV)
It is with regret that I write this note to inform the group that the yellow RV-8 was destroyed on Sunday morning, taking John Morgan and an acquaintance from Blythe California. John had borrowed the aircraft to travel to Blythe and be with his family for the holiday. Van was enroute to the area 6 hours after the accident but arrived after the NTSB had removed the wreckage to Phoenix. Van and Andy Hanna, our structural engineer are now in Phoenix but will not be able to review the aircraft remains until Wednesday. They will be helping the NTSB, FAA and Lycoming determine the cause of the accident. We would like to keep the rumors to a minimum and intend to inform this group of any findings as soon as available. We would appreciate people not speculating as to the cause of the accident. I just talked to Van and there was at least one witness and his comments along with the description of the failure as described by John's son-in-law do not make sense, therefore we will wait until Van returns for the details. Although the NTSB may take weeks or months to reach a conclusion, Van should be able to provide some details by the end of the week. Our thoughts are with John's family and several of us will be out of the office this week to attend the memorial service for John. Bill Benedict General Manager Van's Aircraft, Inc. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: jswitzer(at)Primenet.Com (John L. Switzer)
Subject: Re: RV-8 Crash (more info)
Von, Brian et. all: I feel the same as you both, I am absolutely devastated at this news. I went for a demo ride with John Morgan in N58RV at Sun-N-Fun last month. Great pilot and a great machine. Hope to learn more soon. John Switzer > > > > >>Listers; I am trying to find out more about the RV-8 crash in >California. A >>lister from California has heard the following on KNX1070 radio while >driving >>in the Mojave Desert today. He stresses the fact that the radio had a >lot of >>static and he did not get a complete report, so again, lets say that >none of >>this is completely verified yet. They reported a fatal accident >involving an >>RV-8 in the area of Ripley(?) California, and the name he believes he >heard >>mentioned was John Morgan as the pilot. It was possibly a demo flight >so there >>may be someone else involved, also. >>Von Alexander >>MAlexan533(at)aol.com >> > >All, > >PLLEEEEEAAASE tell me this isn't true. This kind of news we should never >hear. I'm hoping someone from Van's will post something here quickly. I >have looked at the NTSB site and found no record of any incidents >today..at least as of 2100 hrs, Mountain time zone. > >My prayers and best wishes to all... > >Brian Denk >-8 #379 >wings almost done > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
Subject: Re: Aileron gap seals
<19980315.233654.9510.2.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
From: daviddla(at)Juno.com (Blah ba Blah)
Tommy, their are a lot of builders in the Bakersfield area who do sandwich the aileron gap cover between the top wing skin and the rear spar. I have done it on my RV-6A wings and I like the results. Dave Ahrens, Bakersfield, CA. Still working on wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Bill Pace <wbpace(at)adnc.com>
Subject: RFI: Avery close quarter 8-32 screw dimpler
Could someone who has used the Avery "Close Quarter 8-32 Screw Dimpler Kit" please share their opinion of it with me? Does it produce results which are substantially superior to just dimpling with an AN 509 screw and K1100 nutplate? Before I spend eleven bucks on it, I thought I would ask if it was worth it. Given about 20 odd holes over two wings, the cost per hole is over 50 cents - pretty pricy unless I eventually find other uses for it to help amortize the cost. While I'm at it, does anyone know the shear and tension strengths of LP 4-3 rivets? I can't find it anywhere. I want to use some BSPQ 5-4 rivets in some wing ribs in place of the LP 4-3's where I had to drill some oversize holes. I have the BSPQ numbers. Thanks. ----- Bill Pace wbpace(at)adnc.com RV-6A Skinning left wing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: anti-rotation washers for toggle switches
Dear List, Does anyone know of a source for the washers that stop toggle switches rotating. These are the little guys with a tab on the inside that engages the slot in the threaded part of the switch mount and a tab on the outside that bends back at 90 degrees to engage a notch cut in the switch mounting hole. The RS components catalogue does not list these but I know they exist (Van's electric flap switch comes with one installed. I want the washers for the 15/32 standard toggle switch. Thanks in advance. Leo Davies leo(at)icn.su.oz.au ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 25, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: anti-rotation washers for toggle switches
Leo ... how many do you need?? Gil A. At 04:46 PM 5-26-98, you wrote: > >Dear List, > >Does anyone know of a source for the washers that stop toggle switches >rotating. These are the little guys with a tab on the inside that engages >the slot in the threaded part of the switch mount and a tab on the outside >that bends back at 90 degrees to engage a notch cut in the switch mounting >hole. > >The RS components catalogue does not list these but I know they exist >(Van's electric flap switch comes with one installed. > >I want the washers for the 15/32 standard toggle switch. > >Thanks in advance. > >Leo Davies > >leo(at)icn.su.oz.au > > > > > Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Auto gas
Date: May 26, 1998
Listers, I've been following the thread on auto gas usage and thought it was time to chime in a little. :-) I've been using auto gas in my airplanes for about twelve years. I used it in my C-172 for about five years. The rest of the time has been in a AA-5A Cheetah. Both using low compression engines. I've had no problems other than mild vapor locks on the ground due to heat and seasonal changes. Nothing to be concerned about, actually. I plan to use autogas in my RV-6A when it's done. I'll start out with 100LL to be sure the breakin is done by the book; but, shortly after that, it will be weaned to autogas. As for the higher compression engines, I sent a note to Petersen about these and learned it was OK to use higher octane fuels in them. I was looking at the idea of a O360 at that time. I finally decided on a O320. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Doin' the canopy thingy) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs - Flight test
> >Could I ask that, when speed comparisons are made, the comparisons be made >in terms of true air speed? Ground speeds don't mean a thing to me because I >don't know what kind of a headwind/tailwind component the aircraft is >working with. Higher /lower outside air temps and higher/lower pressures >(in.hg.) need to be taken into account. These factors will correct indicated >air speed into true air speed. > >Some airspeed indicators have the correction for TAS built into them. This >makes the calculation very easy. However, any IAS or TAS numbers are worthless unless the tester has determined the position and instrument errors (either separately or as a total). I work as an engineering test pilot, and I have seen prototypes from large companies that originally had airspeed errors in excess of 10 kts at cruise conditions. Of course, after the testing revealed the error, they would make changes to the static system to reduce the error to something more reasonable. So, if you quote IAS or TAS, it would be good to add a note saying whether or not you have determined the position and instrument errors. I don't want to get into a discussion as to how to measure the position error. It is a pretty big subject. There is a pretty good 10 page description in "Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft" by Vaughan Askue. Take care, Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (starting wings) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Engineering Test Pilot (613) 952-4319 (work) Transport Canada Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net>
Subject: Re: Priming Nutplates
For those who would like to use a spray primer on their nutplates, I would suggest using a zinc phosphate primer, rather than zinc chromate. Chromates prevent corrosion of aluminium alloys. Zinc phosphate is made for ferrous metals. You can purchase it at quality automotive paint supply stores. It's usually right next to the zinc chromate spray cans. Charlie Kuss RV-8 wings >I really don't think the nutplates need to be primed. I did, > however, prime most of mine. I just laid them all flat on a piece of > cardboard and shot them with a couple of light coats of Zinc Chromate out > of a can. > > I am getting ready to install the nutplates for the fuel tanks on my RV8 > and was wondering if all these nutplates (outside the tank) need to be > primed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
About using auto fuel in 0360's... Our sailplane tow plane is STC'd for auto fuel. We run 100ll every 10th tank for valve lubrication. We have had verv good luck with the super cub. But keep in mind the cub is a gravity feed system. I personally would not think of using auto fuel in my RV4. I know there are some people out there that have accicents using auto fuel. Is it worth the difference in price?? A 100ll fuel substitute is under development as we speak. Stew RV4 273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SWasher1 <SWasher1(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Getting started
To the members of this list: I am an instrument-rated pilot with no building experience other than once rebuilding the engine in my car. Yet I have been captivated by the beauty and elegance of the RV-6A, not to mention the sheer volume and quality of the communication on this list. I would like to ask for your expert opinions on 2 matters that are of concern to me. One: Is it really possible to construct the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this insane task? Thank you for your responses. Steve Washer Windsor, CT SWasher1(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com>
Subject: RV-8 (N58RV)
Date: May 26, 1998
My prayers are with them and their families. Driving to work this AM, I also heard on the news today that my flight instructors for the Cub I rent went down last night (Morris IL, C09). One is dead, the other is in critical condition. I will miss Bonnie and will pray for Eric. This will be a tough day for everyone. Don Mack donmack(at)allways.net -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 12:18 AM Subject: RV-List: RV-8 (N58RV) It is with regret that I write this note to inform the group that the yellow RV-8 was destroyed on Sunday morning, taking John Morgan and an acquaintance from Blythe California. John had borrowed the aircraft to travel to Blythe and be with his family for the holiday. Van was enroute to the area 6 hours after the accident but arrived after the NTSB had removed the wreckage to Phoenix. Van and Andy Hanna, our structural engineer are now in Phoenix but will not be able to review the aircraft remains until Wednesday. They will be helping the NTSB, FAA and Lycoming determine the cause of the accident. We would like to keep the rumors to a minimum and intend to inform this group of any findings as soon as available. We would appreciate people not speculating as to the cause of the accident. I just talked to Van and there was at least one witness and his comments along with the description of the failure as described by John's son-in-law do not make sense, therefore we will wait until Van returns for the details. Although the NTSB may take weeks or months to reach a conclusion, Van should be able to provide some details by the end of the week. Our thoughts are with John's family and several of us will be out of the office this week to attend the memorial service for John. Bill Benedict General Manager Van's Aircraft, Inc. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs?
>Scott and others: Is it true, that the 0-320 can be certified to burn >autogas, while the 0-360 can not be certified for autogas? If this is the >case, than Scott's and others argument would have one more positive point >for using the 0-320, particularly loocking in to the future of AC fuel >supplies.! > Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage|| As pointed out by other listers, these are "experimentals" and one is free to experiment with fuels as well. Jim Sears added a point which I'd like to amplify. I own a Grumman Cheetah (AA-5A) which came from the factory with O-320 low compression engine and I bought the plane with an AutoFuel STC for 87 Octane minimum. I OH the engine and put an STC'd conversion on the engine which added the High Compression pistons to what had previously been a Low Compression engine. This voided my 87 Octane STC, and I purchased a NEW High Octane STC from the nice folks at Petersen Aviation in Nebraska ($160=$1/HP). This now makes my Cheetah certified to run 91 Octane Minumum Auto Fuel. Petersen also has 91 Octane STCs for the 180 HP O-360 family as well. Why is this RV-List relevant? This just shows that any O-320 powered and *MOST* O-360 powered RVs can safely run the correct octane autofuel. The FAA has approved the use of varying grades of autofuel for the engines most are likely to use in their RVs. RVs don't need the STC since they are not "certified". This means that we are not "experimenting" when it comes to Auto Fuel use in *MOST* RVs. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Getting started
Date: May 26, 1998
> >To the members of this list: > >I am an instrument-rated pilot with no building experience other than once >rebuilding the engine in my car. Yet I have been captivated by the beauty and >elegance of the RV-6A, not to mention the sheer volume and quality of the >communication on this list. I would like to ask for your expert opinions on 2 >matters that are of concern to me. One: Is it really possible to construct >the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What >preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this >insane task? > >Thank you for your responses. > >Steve Washer >Windsor, CT >SWasher1(at)aol.com Steve, Welcome to our community! It really doesn't take insanity to get started..but it helps. :) The primary concern I had before starting my RV-8 was financial mostly (can I really afford this?), followed by "what will my wife think about this?". Well, the financial matter is not such a big deal. You simply find a way to buy each kit, without much reasoning required...as the Nike ads say, "Just do it". I had a heart to heart talk with my wife, and was very honest in my feelings about my flying endeavors..what it would take to keep me smiling, and what would offer the most performance and safety for the dollars spent. ANY RV fills the bill nicely. Once I showed her Van's video from the information package, she was sold! She loves the beach, and the shot of a formation of two RV's overflying the Pacific coastline..really got her smiling. This brings to the fore the importance of family support. You CANNOT do this alone. Involve your family as much as they can comfortably accomodate, and make sure to spend quality time with them..no matter how much you want to work on the plane. It is VITAL that your life not come to a screeching halt to get it built. I build in a two car garage sized shop, and feel that it can be done with less space. It will take some clever maneuvering of the finished components, but it can..and HAS been done. You could utilize the ceiling for storage of completed tail kit components and even the wings. This would completely free up the floor for the fuselage. You'll soon find out how clever you can be...and you'll come up with novel ideas to solve space problems. If you can't figure out how to solve the space situation, there is SOMEONE here on the RV list who has been there and already come up with a fix for it. We are a very resourceful bunch of folks...and love to share our victories...big and small. Please feel free to ask any other questions you may have..either here, or to me directly. I have pics on my homepage of my project, which may give you a better perspective. Best of luck to you! Brian Denk RV-8 #379 wings almost done. http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: Re: FP vs C/S prop on RVs
Date: May 26, 1998
MCDANIELS) >The 150 HP O-320 is approved for auto fuel, it has a 7.0 to 1 comp. ratio. The 160 HP O-320 is not approved for auto fuel, It has an 8.5 to 1 comp. ratio. Though in amateur built aircraft certified or not you can do what you want. You don't need an auto fuel STC. Some have run auto fuel in the higher comp. engines using some care. Scott and others: I believe STC's exist for 160 HP O-320's. The 160 HP Tripacer is an example. The STC requires premium auto fuel. I heard (rumor) that a lot of work was done attempting to STC older Mooneys with O-360's, using premium auto fuel. But they gave up because of vapor lock problems. Just more information for consideration. Ken Harrill RV - 6, fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Priming Nutplates
If they need to be primed, is there an easy way of >doing this? Cleaning all the nutplates, nailing all 100+ nutplates to a >board, spraying the primer, turning over the nutplates, and then renailing >and priming the other side seems extremely difficult. I would welcome any >and all suggestions to make this easier. Thanks in advance. > Aaron Gleixner This problem comes up over and over. How to prime (or paint) small objects without blowing them away with the spray gun? I was taught this trick over 20 years ago doing autobody work........ Put all your small pieces on screen wire and paint "through" them. The air will go right past the parts and not disturb them. The size of the screen varies with the size of the piece(s) to be painted. Chicken wire or Rabbit wire for larger parts, window screen for tiny parts. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)empirenet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Crash?
> Guys; I just found out a few minutes ago thru the grapevine > here at > Independence, Oregon Airpark that the factory RV-8 taildragger > crashed (I > think it was in California) According to the Riverside County Press-Enterprise, the crash occurred near Blythe, CA between 6:30 am and 7:15 am Sunday morning. > and killed the pilot, who was not named, but was > one of the factory guys. Per the same article, the pilot was John Morgan. Also killed was the passenger, a pilot from the Blythe area. Our thoughts are with the family and friend, as well as the Van's organization during this difficult time. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick_Smith(at)dev.tivoli.com
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: RV3 wings
If anyone has a set of early style RV-3 wings or wing kits without tanks for sale, I would be interested in buying a set, actually two sets. For the curious they will be used for a four-aileron, metal winged biplane. to reply respond off list to r.smith(at)tivoli.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Keep on building...
This weekend I took my RV-6 (which now has 210 hours on it) for a short flight to visit some friends 275 nm away. Wx was great. At 8500', 45 degrees OAT, 2630 rpm, 21.7 in MP, I had a TAS of 168 Kts. Not bad for an O-320 with a fixed pitched prop. On the way home I had 34 Kt tail wind. It's always nice to break the 200 Kt GS barrier. I even got in a few rolls before I landed. With all the discussion of late about FP/CS props, where to put the OAT and all of the other good questions that we post it all comes down to one final point. The RV's are the best damn aircraft in the sky. Build it light and build it right and you will not be disappointed. Keep on building. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 (N58RV)
dear rv'ers it is a great loss to hear to the of the accident of John Morgan, My sympathy to his family and friends. If this little bit of information helps, I meet John for the First time at the Sun-N-Fun this year where I helped Him ready the rv6 for take off, I asked him many questions, but the one that really sticks in my mind ( I asked him how he liked his job. his comment was. (" IT IS THE BEST JOB IN THE WORLD AND I WOULDN'T TRADE POSITIONS WITH ANYONE") I hope that someday, if My number comes up, I could be doing somthing I really love doing as much as John did. god bless scott reviere ABAYMAN(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Getting started
In a message dated 5/26/98 10:15:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SWasher1(at)aol.com writes: > Is it really possible to construct the major components > of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What > preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this > insane task? Yes, I built my RV-6 in a one car garage while living in a condo. As a pre RV project I built an RC model Cub. I had someone fly it for me once and I sold it. Didn't really have an interest in RC aircraft (though they are cool to watch fly) but I was interested in the building process. This small project confirmed to me that I had the discipline to follow through with the project. After all, building an RV is just building a 100 or so small projects that you bring together in the end. I would also suggest that you find someone local who is building an RV and spend an evening helping him/her. This will be a real eye opener for you. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Flying
From: Department of Encouragement Re: Going up in your airplane Out this morning for a smooooooth Memorial Day early morning flight. Kind of a haze layer at 7500 and I am above it in the smooth air, away from traffic, dogging along, doing lazy to tight 2.5 G turns, feeling the airplane work for me. Looking for traffic, always, cranking to look out of the top of the canopy as I turn. And I SEE some...looks like four........BOGIES, ONE O'CLOCK HIGH! Turning, hard right. Weapons armed. Manuvering to intercept. Pullpullpullpull, check six. Gotta lock.....wait......they're ours. There, in a tight turn towards me, 700 feet above, a diamond formation of F-16's, coming around in a turn, over my canopy, and down to do a fly-by of a parade somewhere. Yeehaa! I wanted to follow, fly wing with them. Well, THAT was cool. Glad I was watching for traffic. Not sure they saw me but the slot was hanging kinda low, probably saw something. Well, you gotta watch. Lots of traffic to look out for and you have to assume they don't see you. We are small and go fast. They (most) don't have the visability we do. I went up today to go somewhere where there wasn't going to be a lot of holiday traffic to contend with. Wasn't in the air; there were a LOT of folks out flying today. Didn't expect to see the military guys as we usually don't see them out this close to the mountains. Good day to be flying. Glad to have been there. Your airplane will sort of feel like a jet, it just won't be able to keep up with some of them. You're gonna love it anyway. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Beyond the Boundries ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: Re: Getting started
Date: May 26, 1998
I guess I should take this one guys!!! However, I am no expert!!! I too am an instrument rated pilot and am currently in the throws of building the best RV vans offers. The 6A of course! I am building mine in a single car garage. I think the measurements are 14' by 20'. I should also mention that I have the quickbuild kit, but I built the tail from the normal kit. If you decide to go this way Vans will take $2000 off of the price of the quickbuild kit. In the winter time it was quite a bit cramped in there especially when I was working on the wing and fuselage at the same time. I think you can do it in a single car garage, but shop organization will be more important. Hell, there is a guy that built one in an apartment. I would recommend you consider building the tail from a normal kit. This will cost about $1200 with another $1200 in tools. After you have completed the tail decide if you want to finish the rest or not. If you are pressed for time and have a bit more money consider the quickbuild option. If I can help further just drop me a line. Gary Fesenbek Roanoke, VA RV6A, fuselage > -----Original Message----- > From: SWasher1 [SMTP:SWasher1(at)aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 9:01 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Getting started > > > To the members of this list: > > I am an instrument-rated pilot with no building experience other than > once > rebuilding the engine in my car. Yet I have been captivated by the > beauty and > elegance of the RV-6A, not to mention the sheer volume and quality of > the > communication on this list. I would like to ask for your expert > opinions on 2 > matters that are of concern to me. One: Is it really possible to > construct > the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And > two: What > preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt > this > insane task? > > Thank you for your responses. > > Steve Washer > Windsor, CT > SWasher1(at)aol.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Elevator Bearings
Has anyone come up with a way to put the bolts through the bearings when attaching the elevators to the HS? I had to stop after an hour of trying to do one of them...it's pretty frustrating! Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Mounting Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV3 wings
Rick_Smith(at)dev.tivoli.com wrote: > > If anyone has a set of early style RV-3 wings or wing kits without > tanks > for sale, I would be interested in buying a set, actually two sets. > For the curious they will be used for a four-aileron, metal winged > biplane. > to reply respond off list to r.smith(at)tivoli.com. > > Rick, Email me directly, I know a guy who has two RV3 kits in his garage.Ed Cole emcole(at)ix.netcom.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV3 wings
Rick_Smith(at)dev.tivoli.com wrote: > > If anyone has a set of early style RV-3 wings or wing kits without > tanks > for sale, I would be interested in buying a set, actually two sets. > For the curious they will be used for a four-aileron, metal winged > biplane. > to reply respond off list to r.smith(at)tivoli.com. > Rick, email me directly, I know a guy with two RV3 kits in his garage. Ed Cole emcole(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: BStobbe <coro_01(at)weblabs.com>
Subject: RV-8 accident
The following is from the local paper: Air crash kills area farmer, another man By Sandra Stokley The Press-Enterprise RIPLEY Two men, one a prominent Blythe-area farmer, were killed early Sunday when the experimental plane they were flying crashed in the Ripley area, south of Blythe. Lawrence "Larry" Hull, 55, owner of the Road Runner Ranch in the Palo Verde Valley and John Morgan Jr., 53, of Hillsboro, Ore., died when the Vans RV-8 crashed near the corner of 22nd Avenue and Neighbours Boulevard, coroner's investigator Ric Gomes said. Investigators with the Federal Aviation Administration were trying to determine the cause of the crash. FAA spokesman Bruce Nelson described the Vans RV-8 as home-built aircraft assembled from a kit. Hull's widow, Janet, said her husband had been contemplating buying a Vans and was taking a test flight with Morgan Sunday morning when the crash occurred. Janet Hull said the men took off from Cyr Aviation at about 6:15 a.m. with Morgan piloting the plane. She described Morgan as a veteran pilot who had logged air time in Vietnam and had worked as a crop duster in Blythe. Most recently, he worked as a salesman for the company that sold the experimental Vans RV-8, Janet Hull said. A dispatcher for the California Department of Forestry/Riverside County Fire Department said someone drove into the Ripley fire station at 7:17 a.m. and reported the crash. Debris from the crash was reported in a three-mile area. Hull's death came 23 months after his parents, Dale and Mable Hull, were killed when a single-engine plane piloted by his brother crashed shortly after taking off from Big Bear City Airport. Robert Hull was critically injured in the June 1996 crash.. "Who would have thought two brothers would have been involved in plane crashes," Janet Hull said. "What are the odds of that?" Janet Hull said it was her brother-in-law Robert who broke the news to her Sunday morning that the plane her husband was riding in had gone down. Janet Hull said her husband, who has been flying since 1977, had been thinking of purchasing one of the experimental aircraft. The couple already is part owner of a small plane. "He thought he would like to build his own plane," she said. Mr. Hull was born in Covina in Los Angeles County. The Hull family moved to Blythe to farm in 1948. After working in Los Angeles for 12 years, Mr. Hull returned to Blythe to help his parents. In 1992, the farm was divided, with Mr. Hull working one half and his brother the other. Mr. Hull grew cotton, alfalfa, cantaloupes, wheat, tomatoes, corn and onions. He was active in farming matters, and in May 1996 he and other farmers dumped 200 tons of wheat at a Blythe mall in protest of shipping delays tied to a government quarantine attributed to a wheat fungus. Mr. Hull was president of the Palo Verde Irrigation District, a past president of the California Wheat Growers Association and a member of the California Tomato Commission. In addition to his wife and brother, Mr. Hull's survivors include two children, David Hull, 34, and Natalie Peauroi, 33, and two grandchildren. Published 5/25/1998 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 (N58RV)
Date: May 26, 1998
> It is with regret that I write this note to inform the group that the yellow > RV-8 was destroyed on Sunday morning, taking John Morgan and an > acquaintance from Blythe California. My condolences to the families and friends of both. Please let the list know if, and how, they wish any memorial contributions to be made. Rob Acker (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Re: Getting started
Date: May 26, 1998
Steve, A single-car garage will be tight. The challenge will be where to store the completed wings, empanage, etc while working on the fuselage. The only other preparation is to order the empanage kit and get started. Steve Soule RV-6A fuselage in the jig Huntington, Vermont -----Original Message----- . I would like to ask for your expert opinions on 2 matters that are of concern to me. One: Is it really possible to construct the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this insane task? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Bearings
Here is the simple trick/tool I used with success. Get a pair or needle nose pliars and file (I ground on bench grinder) a samll V groove in the jaws near the tip. This enables one to hold a round bolt by the shaft easier. Use the needle nose pliars in one hand holding bolt while you work the elevator into position with the other. Yu quicly get the hang of it. THere aare other more sophisitcated tools for this purpose but this was quick and easy and worked..... > >Has anyone come up with a way to put the bolts through the bearings when >attaching the elevators to the HS? I had to stop after an hour of trying >to do one of them...it's pretty frustrating! > Richard E. Bibb RV-4 N144KT Oak Hill, VA rbibb(at)fore.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Bearings
>Has anyone come up with a way to put the bolts through the bearings when >attaching the elevators to the HS? I had to stop after an hour of trying >to do one of them...it's pretty frustrating! >Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Mounting Empennage Paul, Using some scrap .032", I made a tool to hold the bolts. The handle can be bent to suit and is 3 or 4 inches long. To the handle, I riveted another piece of scrap with a slot cut in it to accept the shank of the bolt. You then pry the two pieces apart and insert the bolt with the head against the solid part (the handle) and this set up will hold the bot firmly. Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: Priming Nutplates
> If they need to be primed, is there an easy way of >>doing this> I cleaned them by dunking them in a coffee can with solvent, drying, then submerging them in a small amount of primer. Pick them out of the primer (using a rubber glove) and spread on a clean sheet of polyethylene to dry. Works fine. George ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAY MAN <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Elevator Bearings
PAUL, I did mine with a narrow curved needle nose pliers to get the bolts in the hole. It took my brothers help, and you have to hold your mouth open just right, once the bolts are through the nut isn't that bad good luck scott reviere ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: anti-rotation washers for toggle switches
>Does anyone know of a source for the washers that stop toggle switches >rotating. These are the little guys with a tab on the inside that engages >the slot in the threaded part of the switch mount and a tab on the outside >that bends back at 90 degrees to engage a notch cut in the switch mounting >hole. Leo, I've got a 1,000 pieces on order. Should be in later next week. I'll post and announcment, put the up on the web catalog and get pricing as soon as they come in. They'll be supplied standard with all future switch orders from us. Any rv-lister who has ordered switches from us in the past and would like to have these washers can receive them for the asking. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Young <gyoung(at)bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs?
Date: May 26, 1998
I don't think such a blanket statement is warranted. We ARE experimenting. Others' experience may raise your confidence level somewhat, but it's still an experiment. Check the archives for all the variations on oil temp problems on similar or "identical" installations and translate that to all the variations in fuel systems. Look at Petersen Aviation's web page < http://www.webworksltd.com/WebPub/PetersenAviation/PetersenAviation.html > for their list of airframes with STCs and other useful info. The list has a mix of airframes but many are low performance, low powered which the RVs are not. Also note some of the ones that FAILED: Navion, Musketeer,..., and my 7KCAB Citabria - that is a low compression 150hp IO-320. Granted it's injected, but it's also high wing and its systems are pretty simple and straightforward. The conclusion I draw from all this is that there are too many variables and therefore every installation should be thoroughly tested. My choice of an IO-360 will probably preclude my use of auto fuel but I plan to test it anyway. Be safe, test. Greg Young RV-6 N6GY (reserved) fuselage - controls and panel > Why is this RV-List relevant? > > This just shows that any O-320 powered and *MOST* O-360 powered RVs can > safely run the correct octane autofuel. The FAA has approved the use of > varying grades of autofuel for the engines most are likely to use in their > RVs. RVs don't need the STC since they are not "certified". This means > that we are not "experimenting" when it comes to Auto Fuel use in *MOST* RVs. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Elevator Bearings
<< Has anyone come up with a way to put the bolts through the bearings when attaching the elevators to the HS? >> I used a hemostat (forceps), modified by bending the tips slightly, to hold the bolt shank. There are some folks who have built little grabbers out of sheet stock that grasp the head of the bolt, but the forceps worked for me. They are available at Hobby stores and medical supply outlets. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Bearings
Date: May 26, 1998
>>Has anyone come up with a way to put the bolts through the bearings when attaching the elevators to the HS? I had to stop after an hour of trying to do one of them...it's pretty frustrating!<< I just held the bolt mid-shaft with a pair of needle nose pliers and nudged it in while holding the elevator with the other hand and wiggling it slightly to make sure it stayed lined up. I had the HS and elevators resting on two plastic sawhorses. It couldn't have taken over 5 minutes for all four bolts. Give it a try, you can do it... be the bolt! Randy Lervold -8, #80500, mid-wings Vancouver, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: "John C. Devlin" <jdevlin(at)americus.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Bearings
Paul, Try a pair of those surgeon's pliers sold at fishing supply stores. They are very handy to hold and place bolts in tight places. If they don't work, email me for some sailor phrases/words that have come in handy during this project. Best regards, John RV6A, SW Georgia, installing engine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs?
Dumb questions from a guy who has never flown anything but club aircraft fueled with 100LL. 1) How do you get auto gas to the airport and into your plane safely? My brother-in-law who owns a backhoe has a nice 50 gal aux tank with pump/nozzle that he carries around in the back of his pickup to fuel his backhoe (diesel). I thought about one of these, but its placarded against gasoline. Is this just legalese to protect the manufacturer? 2) Where do you buy auto gas to ensure that you are getting gasoline and not some blend (alcohol or??) which may or may not work properly? Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Bearings
Paul, know what you mean. I purchased some "L"s of solid aluminum rod - a 6" lenght of 3/16 aluminum with a 90 degree bend (one leg of the rod you hold) which you stick the other leg of the rod into one side of the bearing/fitting and part way through the bearing (to aline the holes). You then have a better change to put the bolt into the alined holes on the otherside. Once the bolt is partway in, you can then withdraw the aluminum rod and continue to push the bolt thru. I believe I got them from Avery. They certainly helped, but it was still a frustating business with dropping of the bolts/nuts and washers. Ed RV-6A N494BW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz)
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 accident
My condolances to anyone connected with the two reported people killed in the RV-8 accident. John had just flown 2 demonstration flights with my wife and I on the 11th. We subsequently put a deposit on a -8 QB kit and I just recieved my confirmation Saturday. John was a very cordial guy and really treated us nice in giving us a tour of the factory and conducting our flights. I'm sure that he will be missed by his family and at Vans. He told us that he had built his own RV-4 years ago and had used it to commute to the deep south from SoCal to follow crop dusting jobs. He went to work for Vans in the recent past. His son is in Naval flight training in TX and John had visited him in the 8A on his way back from Sun-N-Fun last month. I'm sure that many of you have had contact with John also as he was one of the technical advisors that you ask all of your questions to. This is not the first time I've lost someone I know in an aviation accident and those old rotten feelings in the gut have re-appeared. Now is a good time to re-read the poem "High Flight". My wife just asked me if I sitll want to build our airplane. Of course I do. Flight is a special experience that not everyone is capable of having. Part of an aviators bond with others so blessed is the gumption to keep going, even after tragedy. So long John, I'll meet you in that big holding pattern is the sky someday. Keep an eye on me until then. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Greg Young <gyoung(at)bcm.tmc.edu>
Subject: Elevator Bearings
Date: May 26, 1998
Paul, I got a 3/16 steel rod (59 cents) from the hardware store and made some alignment pins from it. They are shaped somewhat like a question mark (?) creating a handle for the pin. I also saw some from Avery's (I think) that were two piece with a threaded handle that could be removed to check control deflection. I found that once everything was properly aligned the regular bolts were easy to install to check the deflection. BTW I deferred this until last weekend when I mounted the empenage to the fuselage (what a great feeling!). That also meant I deferred the fiberglass work and lead balancing. I don't know that it was a big benefit but I got some comfort being able to check assembled clearances, alignment and control deflections before I drilled the elevator horns. I did not originally defer it for this reason but it's an option. Greg Young RV-6 N6GY (reserved) fuselage - moving controls and making airplane noises > > Has anyone come up with a way to put the bolts through the bearings when > attaching the elevators to the HS? I had to stop after an hour of trying > to do one of them...it's pretty frustrating! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: dougm@physio-control.com (Doug Medema)
Subject: Canopy modification
Listers: I am just starting my sliding canopy and am very interested in any modifications that will make it taller over the seating area. In talking with various people, including Van, I have been told that you can push the currently supplied canopy back from it's normal position and thus gain an extra inch or so of height over the seating area. I would like to do this but have some questions: 1) Has anyone on the list done this? If so, please contact me directly via email. I would really appreciate being able to communicate directly with you. 2) Does anyone have any knowledge of the modifications required? I believe the roll-over structure (Wd-643) stays the same as well as the front member of the sliding frame. Do I have to replace/rebend the center bar of the sliding frame? How about the rear cross-member? Or do you raise the whole frame up somehow? Since the slope of the canopy over the fixed roll-bar remains the same, I don't see how raising the whole frame would work, but maybe there is something I'm not seeing. Any leads on how to make this modification would be appreciated. Thanks! Doug Medema RV-6A #21140, working on sliding canopy. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: X-country flying
>I have a full IFR panel with a vacuum attitude indicator and an electric turn >coordinator, which, BTW, will be for sale when I get my Navaid Devices wing >leveler installed. Make me an offer off the list if you are interested. It >should be available in 10 weeks, which is the lead time for the wing leveler. > >Jim Cone >RV-6A flying great Jim, I am considering the Navaid Devices autopilot, but you, apparently, see no problem replacing your electric turn and bank. Is it not required to have a TSO'd turn and bank as a back up. This is one of the reasons I have been looking at the S-tec system 20/30. I have also heard or read here that the Navaid is not as accurate a turn and bank. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Shelby in Nashville. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com>
Subject: Getting started
It was stated "A single car garage would be tight". Boy, what discouraging words! Some of us don't have that luxury. My dad and I have been building my -6 in the basement of his house. We took over the family room to build the wings. The fuselage was done on the work side with access to the bulk head leading outdoors. Wall to wall clearance in the work area was about six feet. Considering the jig width was four feet that gave us only two feet maximum to move around. We'd slide the jig from wall to wall to work on each side. Fuselage maximum clearance was in the order of 44 inches and we had 46 inches of clearance leading to the outside! With her end to end clearance of 14 feet that gave us about two extra feet on each end to move around in an 18 foot area. We've since moved the fuselage outside under an overhang and do our work there now. I'm not ashamed to state I've been working on the -6 for 12 years now with what I call slow BUT STEADY progress. I moved 100 NM away a year ago and am now doing some long distance building. I fly to "the factory" with my 172 reminding myself this 1 hour flight will soon take only 35 minutes. I've never built anything like this before and simply did some up front research, bought the empennage and the initial tools that Van recommended and had at it. I don't regret anything I've done nor the time its taking. Its been a fantastic learning project leading to many new friends too. It will fly before the year 2000! Gary on Long Island, Plane in MA, finishing 0-360 c/s RV-6 20038 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: F-675 Top Skin
<35696DE7.6536A54B(at)telusplanet.net>
Date: May 26, 1998
>Mike - Drill all your holes on pattern into the substructure first Doug: How do I hold the skeliton togetrher while backdrilling the skins from the stucture? Steve suggested driving rivets in the cross pieces & drill out later, then backdrilling them to the skin. Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Shaftela <Shaftela(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Priming Nutplate
I just got done priming a bunch of nutplates for my rv-4 wing. This is what I did- got a block of wood, drilled a about 40 3/8" holes in it, set the nutplates in the holes, and sprayed the mating surface of them with 2 or 3 coats of primer. I then turned them over and placed the now primed flat surface of the nutplates down on a clean surface(don't put them on a primered surface, they will stick) and sprayed the other side of them. I takes longer to write about it than to do it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: "Robert D. Binzer" <robinzer(at)seidata.com>
Subject: Primer
Has anyone checked out the Mar-Hyde Self Etching Primer for use instead of Zinc Chromate or Zinc-Oxide? Can any one offer yeah or nay on this? Bob Binzer RV-6A tailfeathers Madison, Indiana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: May 26, 1998
From: sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net (stan burchett)
Subject: RV6A project FOR SALE
The empennage kit is completed. The wing kit is halfway (1 wing and the spar, .. made @ NASA). The fuselage is about 1/5 completed (bulkheads done and ready for jigging). Fus videos & jig included. Some tools avail. Death of partner and loss of my medical forcing sale. Asking $8600. I'm in the pattern at PHF (newportNews/Williamsburg Intl) VA. sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net or 121 Myers Rd.,Yorktown,VA ..757-867-7244. Stan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Shaftela <Shaftela(at)aol.com>
Date: May 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Getting started
I'm in the final stretch of assembling my -4 wings in my 2 car garage, but I have only the use of one stall, as my wife uses the other for her car. It's definately do-able. This is my first airplane, although I've done a bit a woodworking before. The biggest factor in your success is motivation. I wanted to build an airplane so bad my teeth hurt. It's really a satisfying experience, sometimes it's hard to believe I'm actually doing it. If you think you want to do it, go visit someone in your area who is building, I'm sure they would be happy to show you their project. Brian- Redmond, WA


May 19, 1998 - May 26, 1998

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