RV-Archive.digest.vol-et
May 26, 1998 - June 01, 1998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moentenich, Brian L NWP" <Brian.L.Moentenich(at)nwp01.usace.army.mil> |
| Subject: | Canopy modification |
At least one builder (Kevin Lane - N3773) made his seats a couple of
inches lower.
-----Original Message-----
From: dougm@physio-control.com [SMTP:dougm@physio-control.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 12:05 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Canopy modification
Medema)
Listers:
I am just starting my sliding canopy and am very interested in
any
modifications that will make it taller over the seating area.
In talking with various people, including Van, I have been told
that you can push the currently supplied canopy back from it's
normal position and thus gain an extra inch or so of height over
the seating area. I would like to do this but have some
questions:
1) Has anyone on the list done this? If so, please contact me
directly via email. I would really appreciate being able to
communicate directly with you.
2) Does anyone have any knowledge of the modifications
required?
I believe the roll-over structure (Wd-643) stays the same as
well as the front member of the sliding frame. Do I have to
replace/rebend the center bar of the sliding frame? How
about
the rear cross-member? Or do you raise the whole frame up
somehow? Since the slope of the canopy over the fixed
roll-bar
remains the same, I don't see how raising the whole frame
would
work, but maybe there is something I'm not seeing.
Any leads on how to make this modification would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Doug Medema RV-6A #21140, working on sliding canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RFI: Avery close quarter 8-32 screw dimpler |
wbpace(at)adnc.com wrote:
> Could someone who has used the Avery "Close Quarter 8-32 Screw
> Dimpler Kit" please share their opinion of it with me?
I bought it recently and have been using it on my wings (tank attach
nutplates). It works fine. It does seem expensive to me for what you
get -- a male die with a hole through it, 3 or 4 hex-head #8 screws,
and an Allen key to match.
> Does it produce results which are substantially superior to just
> dimpling with an AN 509 screw and K1100 nutplate?
Dunno -- didn't try that.
> Given about 20 odd holes over two wings, the cost per hole
> is over 50 cents - pretty pricy unless I eventually find other
> uses for it to help amortize the cost.
I believe there's many more nutplates to go yet, although I dunno how
many are recessed or how many of those will need the close-quarters
tool.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting started |
Hi Steve,
> I am an instrument-rated pilot with no building experience other
> than once rebuilding the engine in my car.
The bad news is that neither your instrument rating, flying
experience, nor your car engine rebuild experience won't help you much
towards building an RV. The good news is that you don't actually need
any experience.
> One: Is it really possible to construct
> the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage?
I hope so... that's what I'm doing! More seriously, yes. Except
(obviously) for fitting wings to fuselage. I'm most of the way through
building my wings, all work done so far in my spare room (empennage)
and single garage. I'm sure that building the fuselage can be done in
my garage too.
As someone else said, you will need to find somewhere to store your
completed components.
> And two: What preparation should I as a builder put myself
> through before I attempt this insane task?
1) Stop calling it insane. It's not insane -- just a big challenge.
Over 1800 people have shown that it *is* possible.
2) Join your local EAA chapter
3) Help out (or just watch) someone else building
4) Go to one of the Alexander Aeroplane/Aircraft Spruce sheet metal
workshops.
5) Acquire catalogs from tool suppliers like Avery Tools and Aircraft
Spruce.
FWIW, I've collected my RV building experiences into "The Bunny's
Guide to RV Building". My thoughts on the build/no-build decision are
available at
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/4808/bunny0a.htm>
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mlfred <Mlfred(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs? |
<< Dumb questions from a guy who has never flown anything but club aircraft
fueled with 100LL.
1) How do you get auto gas to the airport and into your plane safely?
I use 5 gal containers, and pour in thru a funnel w/ a screen.
2) Where do you buy auto gas to ensure that you are getting gasoline and
not some blend (alcohol or??) which may or may not work properly?
Check w/ the local suppliers- they will tell you the ingredients. BTW- keep an
eye on the RVP of the fuel you choose- locally, the "winter mix" stops 1 May.
Will the thing run on 87 octane? That depends! BMEP has a lot to do with it,
but a "dirty" cyl will tend to pre-ignite also. To figure BMEP, Pratt &
Whitney supplies the following: BMEP=2200 (for the O-360)X BHP divided by RPM.
Use your power chart to figure BHP.
Bottom line: Part throttle operations should be OK on reg mogas. Check the
BMEP at the power setting you plan to use. A chart by Chuck Berthe (Kitplanes-
Sept 1995) shows the following BMEP for the O-360:
28"/2700 RPM/147PSI (ok by most standards)
29"/2400 RPM/158 PSI (I'd use 100LL for this one- this is the highest allowed
by Lyc)
28"/2200RPM/155 PSI (t/o for most f/p equipped a/c- probably the highest you
will see)
28"/2500 RPM/150 PSI (c/s at initial climb)
24"/2100 RPM/131PSI (lower than I'd thought- probably OK w/ 87 octane)
24"/2500 RPM/126 PSI
Read Chuck's article- he has researched this stuff much more than I.
I have mogas in one tank in my Rocket. It works fine in the air, but it won't
do too well on the ground- vapor lock, you know.
Check six!
Mark
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs? |
> The FAA has approved the use of varying grades of autofuel
> for the engines most are likely to use in their RVs.
Yes.
> RVs don't need the STC since they are not "certified".
Yes.
> This means that we are not "experimenting" when it comes to
> Auto Fuel use in *MOST* RVs.
No!
What it means is that you won't be experimenting with the *engine* if
you run auto fuel. You would still be experimenting with the fuel
delivery system -- for example, someone mentioned vapour lock problems
in Mooneys running autofuel. The fact that it works just fine on your
Cheetah doesn't mean it'll necessarily work OK in another aircraft
model.
Here in NZ, we've got rid of our leaded auto fuels. We now have
unleaded 91 and 96 octane fuels. At the changeover, there were also
quite a number of problems with fuel hoses... the high aromatic
(benzene) content of the new fuel caused O-rings to expand and leak.
This was first noticed on an aircraft running mogas under an STC. What
effect does the aromatics in unleaded auto fuel have on Proseal? How
about on the various O-rings and other seals?
Note that I'm not saying "Don't try this". What I *am* saying is that
if you do try it, do it with your eyes open.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Canopy modification |
Doug,
In a few months I, too, will be working on the sliding canopy and will
be modifying for headroom. Please post any useful information sent
directly to you.
Thanks.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: dougm@physio-control.com [SMTP:dougm@physio-control.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 3:05 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Canopy modification
Medema)
Listers:
I am just starting my sliding canopy and am very interested in
any
modifications that will make it taller over the seating area.
In talking with various people, including Van, I have been told
that you can push the currently supplied canopy back from it's
normal position and thus gain an extra inch or so of height over
the seating area. I would like to do this but have some
questions:
1) Has anyone on the list done this? If so, please contact me
directly via email. I would really appreciate being able to
communicate directly with you.
2) Does anyone have any knowledge of the modifications
required?
I believe the roll-over structure (Wd-643) stays the same as
well as the front member of the sliding frame. Do I have to
replace/rebend the center bar of the sliding frame? How
about
the rear cross-member? Or do you raise the whole frame up
somehow? Since the slope of the canopy over the fixed
roll-bar
remains the same, I don't see how raising the whole frame
would
work, but maybe there is something I'm not seeing.
Any leads on how to make this modification would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Doug Medema RV-6A #21140, working on sliding canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Mills <tmills(at)powerup.com.au> |
Hello
I have a Tatco hand squeezer with the one and three inch yokes. I would like a
no hole set
for the tight spots, however the special yoke in the Avery catalog does not look
very thin
(or not as thin as the Avery thin nose yokes)
My question Does anyone out have the tatco special yoke, is it a useful
tool
or is there a better alternative.
Thank you.
Trevor Mills 80605 Brisbane OZ.
Finishing left elevator
Waiting on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Getting started |
One: Is it really possible to construct the major components of this airplane in
my single-car garage?
Yes, I'm doing just that. My garage is 16*20 exterior dimension. Tight but do-able.
And two: What preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt
this
insane task?
Oh, rebuild the motor in your car, OR build the empenage.
Brian Eckstein
6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Golden" <Flyinghi(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I received a Newark Electronics Catalog earlier this year to order some
neat electronics out of. Before I discard it, does anyone have a need for
it? Send me an address and I will forward it. This is the 1998 edition
#116. Seems a waste to toss it. Respond off the list.
Regards,
Charles Golden
RV-6A N609CG
Finishing up and so close
Chevy V-6
SE Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)Adobe.COM> |
Bob,
I have been using Mar-Hyde on my RV-8 project and really
like it. It dries fast and is tough as nails once dried.
-Jeff Hawkins
RV-8 #563
Working on the wings
Suwanee, GA
>
>Has anyone checked out the Mar-Hyde Self Etching Primer for use instead
>of Zinc Chromate or Zinc-Oxide? Can any one offer yeah or nay on this?
>
>Bob Binzer
>RV-6A tailfeathers
>Madison, Indiana
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting started |
SWasher1 wrote:
>
>
> To the members of this list:
>
> I am an instrument-rated pilot with no building experience other than once
> rebuilding the engine in my car. Yet I have been captivated by the beauty and
> elegance of the RV-6A, not to mention the sheer volume and quality of the
> communication on this list. I would like to ask for your expert opinions on
2
> matters that are of concern to me. One: Is it really possible to construct
> the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What
> preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this
> insane task?
>
Steve, If you have the desire and patience, you can build an RV. I'm
building in a two-car garage w/o any problem(so far). I have seen a
builder on the list who did it in a one-car. With good planning, you
shouldn't have any problem, but you will need places to store completed
components. As for preparation, I took the Sport Air sheet metal class,
bought the Orendorff(sp?) videos, studied the manual, and read the
list. If you can rebuild a car engine, you can probably build an RV.
Good Luck.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Cap Engraving |
Guys,
Want your fuel caps professionally deep CNC engraved with:
a) fuel quantity
b) fuel grade
c) the word "FUEL"
There is a dandy engraver in Fargo ND who will charge $20 to engrave
both caps and paint the letters black or white, your choice. High
quality. I am very satisfied.
I disassembled my caps, took the main body of the gas cap to the
business, and in a day it was done. Very high quality CNC machine
engraving. They kept the template used for mine and asked me to tell my
friends that they will be pleased to assist others.
Call Linda at 1-701-237-6560.
The business address is: ENGRAPHICS, 1335 2nd Ave N, Fargo, ND, 58102
Frank Zeck
RV4, June 98 :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Tatco makes a no hole yoke. I believe Avery and Cleveland sell them. I
have one, and I use it alot.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Trevor Mills wrote:
>
>
> Hello
> I have a Tatco hand squeezer with the one and three inch yokes. I would like
a no hole set
> for the tight spots, however the special yoke in the Avery catalog does not look
very thin
> (or not as thin as the Avery thin nose yokes)
> My question Does anyone out have the tatco special yoke, is it a useful tool
> or is there a better alternative.
> Thank you.
>
> Trevor Mills 80605 Brisbane OZ.
> Finishing left elevator
> Waiting on wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
I tell people who ask "How's the plane comming?", that building an RV (or
any plane for that matter) is like "Eating an Elephant". You have to take
that first bite if you want to eat him. Soon after that first bite you'll
know if you have a taste for elephant or not! A few bites of him every day
is the key! If you only have elephant every week or two it'll take one hell
of a long time to finish him. Also, too much elephant at one sitting is hard
to digest, and you'll find yourself saying "Oh no not elephant again". Most
folks call it "Burn Out"!
After 800+ hours of elephant diet I find myself enjoying the taste more and
more! My advise is go ahead and order that first hind leg (Tail Kit) and
see if you have a taste for an RV Elephant.
Tommy (6-A in single car garage)
Ridgetop, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GROBDRIVER <GROBDRIVER(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | HS-411 bearing - Prime? |
HI Guys and Gals - you can tell from the subject that I've just gotten
started. My first two questions aren't specifically addressed in the
archives, although one got side-swiped.
The rivets called out in the plan sheet to sandwich the bearing in HS-411 are
4-5s. I drove the first one and went to check it with the guage - something's
not right. I think the rivet is too short.
It's good that this stopped me, though, as I started wondering: Should that
bearing be primed along with the brackets? I didn't do it because it seemed
like the primer would get into the bearing and cause problems. What? Sealed
bearing you say?
Guess I have to drill out that rivet and replace with a -6, and while I have
it apart again... prime the bearing?
Thanks all
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
RV-6 25368 Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Elevator Bearings |
Hi Paul:
I feel your pain! First of all, make sure that your bolts will pass
through the brackets on your HS. I had to pass a drill bit through mine
by hand a couple of times to make enough room. Then, I used an old
surgical forcept to hold the bolt in the hole of the bracket while I
positioned the rod end so that the bolt would pass through. These
surgical forcepts are slender enough to allow you to hold the bolts
through the rod end cutouts in the elevator skins. I immagine that you
can use similar forcepts that are sold in sporting goods stores for
removing fish hooks. Since I don't catch much fish, I use mine on my
RV! ;^)
Hope this helps you out
One last note, my condolences to the RV family on the loss of the
RV8 and its pilots. We all share in their loss.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 elevators
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Shaftela <Shaftela(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV? I'm certainly
leaning that way. I'm pretty well along on the wings for my RV-4. Any input is
welcome, even negative, so fire away. Brian, Redmond, Wa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Cone <JamesCone(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X-country flying |
I do not think that all of the instruments have to be TSO'd to be legal. That
is what I was told by my FSDO during my inspection for certification. I would
consider using just a turn coordinator in IFR conditions an emergency and
would advise ATC of my condition. The Navaid devices does have a turn
coordinator and a ball race for trimming for coordinated flight. Just my
opinion.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SWasher1 <SWasher1(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Time to get started |
To the generous RV netizens,
This was me this morning....
To the members of this list:
I am an instrument-rated pilot with no building experience other than once
rebuilding the engine in my car. Yet I have been captivated by the beauty and
elegance of the RV-6A, not to mention the sheer volume and quality of the
communication on this list. I would like to ask for your expert opinions on 2
matters that are of concern to me. One: Is it really possible to construct
the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What
preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this
insane task?
Thank you for your responses.
Steve Washer
Windsor, CT
This is me at the end of the day...
A little overwhelmed by the sheer quantity and quality of the responses I
received both on-line and off-line from you folks. Can't thank you enough!
I've been on lists before but nothing approaches the good feeling I get from
you all and your passion for this purpose. Thank you for the time you took
out of your projects to counsel this "newbie". Your advice was considered,
thoughtful, and hopeful, especially in the light of some very sad news which
appeared on the list today. Joe Waltz, you made me feel like I knew your
friend.
Hope to see you all back here very soon and for some time to come. A building
project is a long-term commitment, so I hear...
Steve (calling the factory) Washer
SWasher1(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
>>
>> Has anyone checked out the Mar-Hyde Self Etching Primer for use
>> instead of Zinc Chromate or Zinc-Oxide? Can any one offer yeah
>> or nay on this?
> I have been using Mar-Hyde on my RV-8 project and really
> like it. It dries fast and is tough as nails once dried.
>
> -Jeff Hawkins
Bernie and I have been using mostly Deft (two-part epoxy primer), but
we tried Marhyde, too. Deft is easier to clean up (with water), and
"hard as nails" doesn't even begin to describe it. I found it easier
to apply than Marhyde. We're using an HVLP gun. Marhyde will wash
off with solvents, Deft won't.
--
--------
Rob Rimbold, RV6A Fuselage, Florida
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb <RVer273sb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-411 bearing - Prime? |
No need to prime bearings. At least it is not standard practice. Depending
on what the seals are made of, thinner could seep in and ruin the bearing.
Most are corrosion resistant material.
RV4 233sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-411 bearing - Prime? |
Make sure you always check rivet lengths, don't just trust what you see
in the plans. There are many occasions where you need to use longer
rivets. One short rivet is not going to be a problem, but if you feel
you can drill it out without any trouble, go ahead. If you really want
to prime the bearing, just put tape over the rubber part and spray away.
Take a look at my web page, there's alot of tips for beginners.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
GROBDRIVER wrote:
>
>
> HI Guys and Gals - you can tell from the subject that I've just gotten
> started. My first two questions aren't specifically addressed in the
> archives, although one got side-swiped.
>
> The rivets called out in the plan sheet to sandwich the bearing in HS-411 are
> 4-5s. I drove the first one and went to check it with the guage - something's
> not right. I think the rivet is too short.
>
> It's good that this stopped me, though, as I started wondering: Should that
> bearing be primed along with the brackets? I didn't do it because it seemed
> like the primer would get into the bearing and cause problems. What? Sealed
> bearing you say?
>
> Guess I have to drill out that rivet and replace with a -6, and while I have
> it apart again... prime the bearing?
>
> Thanks all
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> RV-6 25368 Emp.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McLaughlJR <McLaughlJR(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting started |
Steve- To be short and sweet:
1. Yes
2. Just get started.
2a. Attend one of the weekend sheetmetal classes if practicable, or just
have one of the guys from your Eaa chapter spend about an hour and a half
showing you how all of your tools work, and practice messing up some rivets.
3. Just get started.
Joel McLaughlin
-6 Wings
N.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting started |
SWasher1 wrote: To the members of this list:
> I am an instrument-rated pilot with no building experience other than once
> rebuilding the engine in my car. Yet I have been captivated by the beauty and
> elegance of the RV-6A, not to mention the sheer volume and quality of the
> communication on this list. I would like to ask for your expert opinions on
2
> matters that are of concern to me. One: Is it really possible to construct
> the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What
> preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this
> insane task?
>
> Thank you for your responses.
>
> Steve Washer
> Windsor, CT
> SWasher1(at)aol.com
>
Steve - answer to first question - YES!! I am building in a 12 x 24 foot area.
You will need a bit more area when you attach the wings, but not to worry about
now.
Second concern - Join an EAA Chapter. Those guys are a real asset to your
building project - both in information needed and encouragement to keep going.
It
is a big project to build an aircraft but REALLY WORTH THE EFFORT !!
BTW the best tool you can find for your RV project will be a builder who is
slightly ahead of you in his/her project :))
GO FOR IT ! and have fun too.
Doug Murray - RV-6 Engine - Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)SagentTech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
>Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV? I'm
certainly
>leaning that way. I'm pretty well along on the wings for my RV-4. Any
input is
>welcome, even negative, so fire away. Brian, Redmond, Wa
Check out my website at http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
There are pictures of a Mazda 13B installed in an RV-6A.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME mounting the empennage & control rods
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Bearings bolts |
To install the bolts, wrap a piece of fairly heavy copper or aluminium wire
(about .063 to .080 electrical single strand cable is ideal) around the
shank of the bolt and the up over the head to stop it slipping out. Then
install the bolt and when in place,simply pull hard on the wire and it will
straighten out and come away. Insulated wire is fine. Works a treat.
Brian.
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RFI: Avery close quarter 8-32 screw dimpler |
G'day, my advice is buy it. It has much more power and does a much better
job. Worth every dollar, and our dollar only buys 62 cent US! Brian.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVENDANA1 <DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 (N58RV) |
My family's thoghts and prayers go out to the famillies of these folks. Will
say a prayer with my daughters for them tonight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | W B Ward <WBWard(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs? |
<< any O-320 powered and *MOST* O-360 powered RVs can
safely run the correct octane autofuel. >>
I think the keyword here is "correct."
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Moradian" <tonym(at)enviroaqua.com> |
1. I have been building my rv-8 project in a 20X20X10 shelter. This
hangar/shelter/tent has galvenized steel frames that supports the material
covering it which is made out of polyethyline. It has zippered doors in
front which roll up through a pully system. The frame can be bolted to the
ground as mine is. I am remodeling the house and building a garage so i
don't need the hangar any more. The unit was purchased last October @
$1300.00 I have shop lights hanging from the top which will go with it. No
reasonable offer will be refused.
2. I also have a steel jig for the wing and the empenage made out of 3/8"
thick square tubing with 5/16" thick base plates. It is solid. It was made
last year also @ $380.00 I will sell it for $290.00 Please contact me off
list if you are interested.
Tony Moradian
Empenage #80398
N100TM reserved
tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken hoshowski <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Salmon Arm Fathers Day Fly in |
The Salmon Arm ,( British Columbia) Flying Club Annual Fathers Day Fly
in will be held Sunday June 21. Pancake breakfast starting at 7:30 am.
Giant flea market for the ladies. Static displays, fly bys, ultra
lights,demo's and of course RV's. We hope to have 12 to 16 Rv's attend.
Anyone arriving Sat. June 20 is invited to a free spaghetti dinner in
the clubhouse. Any RVer's arriving Saturday and desiring complimentary
accomodation (builders homes) please advise and we will do our best to
look after you.
Salmon Arm is approx. 100 miles north of the U.S. border on the
beautiful Okanagan Valley and approx. half way between Vancouver and
Calgary.
For more info contact me direct.
Regards
Ken Hoshowski C-FKEH RV6 160 HP/C/S
First flight Sept 8/93
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Shaftela(at)aol.com wrote:
> Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV?
I am. I've collected together what information I can find at
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/LaunchPad/4808/mazda13b.htm>.
Actually, I was wondering how Ed Anderson is getting on with his. He
should be flying by now.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Vetterman Exhaust Leak- Fixed |
I had noticed an exhaust leak on the slip joint just below the #3 cylinder
on my Vetterman Exhaust system, and a few other listers wanted me to report if
I was able to fix it. So here's what I did:
I went down to AutoZone, and purchased a 1 3/4" U shaped muffler clamp. I
removed the attaching bracket that holds the upper tube to the lower crossover
tube under the #3 cylinder, and used the muffler clamp to slightly compress
the outer tube in order to reduce the clearance between it and the inner tube.
It took 3 or 4 tries to get it where I wanted it. I then removed the muffler
clamp and re-installed the attaching bracket, and Presto! problem solved
without having to remove the exhaust system. This was the only joint that
showed significant leakage. All other joints seem to be sealing up ok.
One thing I notice, on approach to landing, like on crosswind and final,
the exhaust pops some. At first I thought maybe the idle mixture was too rich,
but while I was flying the red 6A at Van's, it did it too. I've had a couple
of the old coots at the field ask me about it, and I'm not sure how to reply.
Their convinced that something must be wrong with my engine. Could this be
related to the fact that there is no muffler on the exhaust? That would
explain why their Wichita Spam cans don't do it and mine does.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV Flying!!!!!
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Broken Arrow, Ok
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Farewell John Morgan... |
I didn't much feel like building tonight after hearing the news of John
Morgan's passing. Not because I am suddenly fearful of flying or of the
aircraft I have chosen to build, but because having met John and flown with
him, my heart was very heavy. It was because of John's flying and his
pleasant demeanor that my garage is now filled with parts to the greatest
kit aircraft available.
It was late August, 1997 on a beautiful VFR day that John introduced me to
the world of RV's with a demo flight that I cherish to this very day. After
flying with me for a half-hour or so and executing a flawless landing at
Van's home strip, he proceeded to take my nervous wife (she is not yet
comfortable in an airplane) on a scenic flight over our new house which was
being built at the time. On our drive home she mentioned that he "really
seemed to know what he was doing". I couldn't agree more. John was an
excellent pilot.
In addition to flying with him once, I had the privelege of being a fellow
member of the Home Wing Builder's Group with John. He always seemed to have
a smile for everyone and something good to say.
Our prevously mentioned new house is located about 5 miles from North Plains
and I have the privilege of watching the prototype aircraft giving demo
flights and doing testing on a regular basis. One of my most-used tools
when building on nice VFR days is my Bushnell binoculars. When an RV flies
over I run out like an idiot with my binoculars and watch until they
disappear from sight. Then, motivated, I run in and squash some more
rivets. I will miss N58RV and John over my house and at the fly-ins.
My sincere condolences go out to John's family as well as the family of his
passenger. My family's thoughts and, more importantly, our prayers go out
for John's widow, family and the entire family at Van's Aircraft.
Farewell, John Morgan. You will certainly be missed....
Regards,
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Drilling wing ribs to spars...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
| From: | seaok71302(at)Juno.com (mike a adams) |
>Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV?
input is
>welcome, even negative, so fire away. Brian, Redmond, Wa
>
Put a water pipe in your aileron,
Put an automotive light in the wing leading edge,
Use an automotive type fuse block for your electrical system,
Sit on a boat cushion,
Use any primer you like,......or none at all, but,
DO NOT PUT AN AUTO ENGINE IN YOUR AIRPLANE
Mike Adams/-4/#2316
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb <RV4131rb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming Nutplate |
<< I just got done priming a bunch of nutplates for my rv-4 wing. This is what
I
did- got a block of wood, drilled a about 40 3/8" holes in it, set the
nutplates in the holes, and sprayed the mating surface of them with 2 or 3
coats of primer. I then turned them over and placed the now primed flat
surface of the nutplates down on a clean surface(don't put them on a primered
surface, they will stick) and sprayed the other side of them. I takes longer
to write about it than to do it. >>
I know this has come up in the past, but. The nut plates provided with the
kit are cad plated. In short they are already coated with a protectant that
will keep them from rusting or causing dissimilar metal corrosion. If one is
not comfortable with that then the extra work and effort to prime the nut
plates is fine but not necessary.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs? |
At some of the airports I fly at/to, the problem is how do you get
AVGAS? These only have auto gas. My home airport, 9B3, has only auto
gas, for example. We have a conventional pump, but the auto gas is the
only thing that comes out of it.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----How do you get auto gas to the airport
and into your plane safely?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Vetterman Exhaust Leak- Fixed |
Hi Mark, I have a T18 that does have a muffler and it often pops once on
final approach, so the muffler does'nt fix the popping. Niether does
changing the idle mixture. Like to know the answer as it can lead to cracks
in the muffler. Carby was recently overhauled, new main jet etc. but did'nt
fix anything. Engine was fully overhauled at same time. Cheers, Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Bearings |
>
> Get a pair or needle nose pliars and file (I ground on bench
> grinder) a samll V groove in the jaws near the tip. This enables
> one to hold a round bolt by the shaft easier.
.......and put a rubber band around the nose of the pliers
inboard of the bolt. This holds the bolt in. You have to squeeze to
drop it.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 tailwheel on, main gear happening
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Getting Started |
>
>
> I tell people who ask "How's the plane comming?", that building an
> RV (or any plane for that matter) is like "Eating an Elephant". You
> have to take that first bite if you want to eat him.
Right. Start with a small tusk, master it and.............
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 tailwheel on, main gear happening
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
mike a adams wrote:
>
> >Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV?
> input is
> >welcome, even negative, so fire away. Brian, Redmond, Wa
> >
> Hi Brian,
I have an RV-6A with a Mazda 13B as the powerplant just about ready for
inspection. Power estimation is 170HP based on static rpm of 2300 with an 68X72
Propeller. Working an auto conversion is not for everyone. Strong liking for
working out engineering problems, willingness to extend the time to get into the
air, and willingness to accept the additional risk is required. Also, do not
expect to save a lot of $$. Unless you are aquiring a FWF installation, you are
actually engaged in your own mini- R&D program and typical of such - it costs more
than you planned and takes longer than you think.
However, if you are the type that enjoys this type of challenge and are interested
in the 13B, I recommend Tracy Crook's conversion manual. You may also want to
look at some photos of my 13B installation at www.flash.net/~donmack.
At some point in time, there may be a reasonably priced alternatives to the very
limited options today, however, they are years away. As far as automobile
alternative engine projects- like any project, you need to be realistic about the
time you want to expend, money you want to invest, and risk you are willing to
take.
Best Regards
Ed RV-6A N494BW
Vienna VA
> DO NOT PUT AN AUTO ENGINE IN YOUR AIRPLANE
>
> Mike Adams/-4/#2316
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Hi Frank,
Saw your mention of my project. No, sorry to inform you, but not yet in the
air. I sprung a leak in the coolant system, that took about 3 months, 3 welders,
and four trips to the junk yard for evaporator cores to finally get a new set of
radiators welded up. I know have them reinstalled on the airframe and am building
new air ducts for them. So I am about where I was 3 months ago. Will be taking
several weeks vacation in June, so it will probably be late july or August before
I get into the air. I will certainly announce it when that day occurs.
Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW -13B Mazda Powered
Frank van der Hulst wrote:
>
> Actually, I was wondering how Ed Anderson is getting on with his. He
> should be flying by now.
>
> Frank.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vetterman Exhaust Leak- Fixed |
MLaboyteau wrote:
>
> One thing I notice, on approach to landing, like on crosswind and final,
> the exhaust pops some. At first I thought maybe the idle mixture was too rich,
> but while I was flying the red 6A at Van's, it did it too. I've had a couple
> of the old coots at the field ask me about it, and I'm not sure how to reply.
> Their convinced that something must be wrong with my engine. Could this be
> related to the fact that there is no muffler on the exhaust? That would
> explain why their Wichita Spam cans don't do it and mine does.
>
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6A N106RV Flying!!!!!
> MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
> Broken Arrow, Ok
>
Mark
Spam cans also pop under certain circumstances, usually what cause
that is somewhere in the exhaust system is a leak. When you close the
throttle cold air mixes with hot exhaust air and causes the pop.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator Bearings |
After all the hi-tech advice, here's another from the low-tech side. By
the way, I liked Brian H's technique. Mine was similar; I cut a 12"
length of hanger wire and bent it in the center around a bolt. I bent
it until it was in the shape of a 'U' with the wire ends spread about
4". In use, I just dropped a bolt into the U and brought the ends
together, clamping it. When the bolt was in place, I slipped the wire
over the head and finished tightening the bolt. Not sophisticated, but
it didn't cost me anything.
PatK - RV-6A - Right fuel tank done; frantically finishing wing before I
move
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Has anyone come up with a way to put the bolts through the bearings when
> attaching the elevators to the HS? I had to stop after an hour of trying
> to do one of them...it's pretty frustrating!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting started |
As for space considerations, check out my website at
http://ic.net/~patk/rv-6a.htm and see what it takes to build in an
apartment w/o a nice, spacious 1-car garage. As for the skills,
you have already demonstrated the first one - asking questions. Contact
Vans for a builders list in your area and visit some projects if you
can. Also locate the fly-ins (many are announced here) and visit them
to get inspiration and advice. If you fall short in a skill area, often
another builder can help or can teach you. I was taught riveting on my
empennage by an A&P at the company where I worked, for example.
Speaking of announcing fly-ins, I have not seen a posting about the
Michigan Wing of Vans Air Force, but I got a flyer that says that it
will be at 12 noon on June 7 at Dalton Airport (near Flint, MI). The
usual format is to informally look at the planes that make an appearance
and hangar fly until the pot-luck is served. Then the meeting goes more
formal as introductions are made all around and any special
presentations are done. Good people, good food (if I do say so myself),
and great topic. Hope I can take time out from Judi's graduation to be
there this time.
PatK - RV-6A - Moving the project to Chicago in a couple of weeks.
> One: Is it really possible to construct
> the major components of this airplane in my single-car garage? And two: What
> preparation should I as a builder put myself through before I attempt this
> insane task?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Brian wrote:
>
>Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV?
Hi Brian,
Tracy Cook has put a Mazda engine in his RV-4, I believe he has written
a book or paper on it. Let me know if your interested and I can find out
more information on it. I believe he's on the Airsoob mailing list.
tailwinds, terry
Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A
38 Cartier St.
Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca
Ontario Canada
P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vetterman Exhaust Leak- Fixed |
MLaboyteau wrote:
>
>
> One thing I notice, on approach to landing, like on crosswind and final,
> the exhaust pops some. At first I thought maybe the idle mixture was too rich,
> but while I was flying the red 6A at Van's, it did it too. Could this be
> related to the fact that there is no muffler on the exhaust? That would
> explain why their Wichita Spam cans don't do it and mine does.
>
Mark - this backfire is quite common on short pipe - no muffler engines and
engines that have excessive leakage in the exhaust system. It is caused by the
unburned fuel that is leaving the engine meeting with oxygen in the air and due
to
the elevated temperature of the resulting gas there is an 'explosion' and you hear
it as a popping in the pipes. I have seen it do damage to exhaust valves if the
condition persists or is really bad. Remember that the exhaust valve is still
partially open when this burning is taking place. A loss of back pressure not
only will cause the popping, and possible burned exhaust valves, but can also
result in a higher fuel consumption as an engine needs some back pressure to
'hold' the incoming fuel/air mixture in the cylinder. On the certified aircraft
the muffler does the double duty of quieting the engine and providing back
pressure. I have heard the exhaust popping on a 172 while retarding the throttle
after entering a spin so I feel all engines can and are affected by this.
I would like to see someone come up with a muffler for the RV series aircraft.
Hope this helps
Doug Murray - RV-6 - engine
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Reiff <Reiff(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Fuel in "High" compression RVs? |
> 2) Where do you buy auto gas to ensure that you are getting gasoline and
> not some blend (alcohol or??) which may or may not work properly?
EAA HQ has an excellent info packet on auto fuel use in aircraft that
will answer this. It's free for the asking and I highly recommend it
for anyone contemplating using auto fuel.
--
Bob Reiff
Reiff Preheat Systems
http://www.execpc.com/reiff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Ed Anderson is putting one in his RV-6A.
You can find pictures and description of the installation at:
http://www.flash.net/~donmack/mazda/index.html
Don Mack
RV-6A Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 1998 8:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Rotary engines in RVs
Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV? I'm certainly
leaning that way. I'm pretty well along on the wings for my RV-4. Any input
is
welcome, even negative, so fire away. Brian, Redmond, Wa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | New Bearing Question! |
Thank you all for all of your innovative ideas...I have now installed the
bearings (using the notched needle nose method)
There is one small problem....how the heck do you tighten them???? I
normally do not have to ask step by step questions, but this one has just
got me........
Thanks in advance,
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
I know this may seem like heresy in the land of maximum performance, etc.
but what about a muffler for RVs? Has anyone installed one? I love
performance but quieting my bird would make the spousal unit more inclined
to join me in longer aerial forays.
I currently run the Vetterman 4 pipe unit on my -4 and it does nice job but
the cockpit is loud!!!
I'd sacrifice a few precious hp for some db attenuation on the noise.
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)Ibm.Net> |
I'd like to send my condolences and prayers to the family and friends of
John Morgan and his passengers family and friends for their sudden loss
recently.
I didn't know John personally, but talked with him
a couple of times on a problem I had with the baffles on my gas tanks.
He gave me a fix and the fix worked and the tanks have been holding air
for over four days.
John, if your monitoring the list, Thanks.....
Fran Malczynski
Olcott, NY
RV6 (Wings almost done, fuselage parts in the garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Michigan Fly-in |
Patrick Kelley wrote:
> Speaking of announcing fly-ins, I have not seen a posting about the
> Michigan Wing of Vans Air Force, but I got a flyer that says that it
> will be at 12 noon on June 7 at Dalton Airport (near Flint, MI). The
> usual format is to informally look at the planes that make an appearance
> and hangar fly until the pot-luck is served. Then the meeting goes more
> formal as introductions are made all around and any special
> presentations are done. Good people, good food (if I do say so myself),
> and great topic. Hope I can take time out from Judi's graduation to be
> there this time.
Info contacts are listed in the announcement on "The RV Journal" front
page:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
Sam Buchanan (jigging fuse, RV6, Athens, AL, USA)
sbuc(at)traveller.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Marshall" <Nigel_Marshall(at)meritorauto.com> |
Thanks to all those who replied to my question last week about removing the
first wing from the jig. Two of us did it on Saturday and it was, as you
all said, much lighter and easier than I had anticipated.
Now I have got to start all over again..........
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062)
Starting second wing
marshan(at)meritorauto.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Bearing Question! |
Tightening them is a slow, tedious 1/8 turn at a time affair.... don't do it
until final install and/or use non lock nuts for interim fittings....
>
>There is one small problem....how the heck do you tighten them???? I
>normally do not have to ask step by step questions, but this one has just
>got me........
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
>
> Tracy Cook has put a Mazda engine in his RV-4, I believe he has written
Yes, Tracy Crook has written an extensive manual on installation,
systems, and performance specs for a Mazda 13B Rotary conversion in an
RV-4. The book is available from RV-ation Bookstore.
Call us at 970 887-2207 or see our web page at:
http://www.rvbookstore.com
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kerrjb <Kerrjb(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs (Tracy Crook) |
<<
Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV? I'm certainly
leaning that way. I'm pretty well along on the wings for my RV-4. Any input
is
welcome, even negative, so fire away. Brian, Redmond, Wa >>
Hard to imagine all those post and Tracy Crook was only mentioned as a maybe
once. Tracy has been written up by the RVator, has over 600 hours on his
rotary powered 4 . published a neat book on how to do it, sells electonic
ignition, publishes a newspaper on alternate power, and is a great guy. I am
going to give you his email address w/o his permission and know he will say
it's OK.
Tracy Crook's email, 71175.606(at)compuserve.com
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Strong, Colin" <colin.strong(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Air Force Northwest RV Fly-in '98 - Jun 20 |
I hadn't seen this posted yet so I have taken it upon myself to invite
all you RV-er's out there to the 7th Annual Northwest RV Fly-in
sponsored by the Home Wing of Van's Air Force.
The following was brazenly plagiarized from the Home-Wing Home-Page
which can be found at:
http://www.edt.com/homewing/flyin98.html
"This is the premier RV event of the Northwest (all right, Van's
homecoming is pretty good too....) with good food, souvenir t-shirts,
and lots of great RV camaraderie.
Last year we had... well, it was pretty much a rain-out. But the year
before that we had over 60 RVs. So come join the fun! "
This is an opportunity not to miss.
Date: Sat. Jun. 20th
Time: 8:00AM to Whenever
Place: Scappose, OR Airport (1S4)
For Detailed Airport Info see:
http://www.airnav.com/cgi-bin/airport-info?1S4
For more information, or if you want to volunteer to help out, call,
or write, to Don Wentz: don.wentz(at)intel.com (503)543-2298
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
Richard,
Have you tried putting the mufflers on your ears instead of your engine?
If you havent tried them already, I suggest you test some active noise
cancelling headsets. I love my Lightspeed 20K and would imagine that it
would work as well in the RV as it does in the spam I fly. Of course I
would be happy to do some flying in your RV with you and confirm this!
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>I'd sacrifice a few precious hp for some db attenuation on the noise.
>
>Richard E. Bibb
>RV-4 N144KT
>Oak Hill, VA
>rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
Richard,
Try a set of Lightspeed active noise cancelling headsets.
Much lighter, quieter, and less hassle (Probably less $$) than a muffler
installation!
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" htt://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
Richard Bibb wrote:
>
>
> I know this may seem like heresy in the land of maximum performance, etc.
> but what about a muffler for RVs? Has anyone installed one? I love
> performance but quieting my bird would make the spousal unit more inclined
> to join me in longer aerial forays.
>
> I currently run the Vetterman 4 pipe unit on my -4 and it does nice job but
> the cockpit is loud!!!
>
> I'd sacrifice a few precious hp for some db attenuation on the noise.
>
> Richard E. Bibb
> RV-4 N144KT
> Oak Hill, VA
> rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Bearing Question! |
I just used a couple of box wrenches and a few choice words. Just snug
them until you are ready to finalize the assembly, then tighten to final
torque with a small torque wrench or with a pull scale on the nut's
wrench (you can figure out the pull with the moment times force
algebra).
PatK - RV-6A
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> There is one small problem....how the heck do you tighten them???? I
> normally do not have to ask step by step questions, but this one has just
> got me........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Van's Air Force Northwest RV Fly-in '98 - Jun 20 |
Regarding the June 20 Northwest RV Fly-In in Scappoose, OR, I would
like to make a clarification. The fly-in starts at 10:00am, not
8:00am as previously stated. We will be setting up between 8:00 and
10:00. People are welcome to show up before 10:00, but should be
prepared to be pressed into service!
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Getting started |
Thanks everyone who pointed out that I can't spell my own web address in
the morning. It should be http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm
PatK
Patrick Kelley wrote:
>
> As for space considerations, check out my website at
> http://ic.net/~patk/rv-6a.htm and see what it takes to build in an
> apartment w/o a nice, spacious 1-car garage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net (and others) wrote:
> I tried to follow the link above. I received a message saying
> that the page did not exist. Did you possibly make a typo?
Oops, my mistake -- GeoCities is case-sensitive... the 'P' in
Launchpad' should be lower case. Try this...
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/4808/mazda13b.htm
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com> |
| Subject: | IO-360 '6s (&'4s) |
Dear Listers
Many thanks to all those who replied to my request for info on 200hp
angle valve IO-360/C/S prop powered RV-4s and 6s.
It may help to know of anyone who is building such a machine as well as
flying examples. Hopefully I can then baffle our Popular Flying
Association with huge numbers of like-minded sane people. Contact name
and address, rv/engine/prop type etc would be a great help.
My building oppo has been to see Steve Barnard last year and will
contact him again direct, also I'm sure Van's will help with whatever
knowledge they have on their database.
Steve's splendid cowls are deigned for an extended hub prop which we
can't use on our motor, so it's out with the hack saw and rubber gloves
for us!
The PFA doesn't mind the weight and balance aspect of this combo - we
have worked out that the CofG stays in limits at all times (we have the
battery in the baggage compartment). Their worry is the extra weight
hanging on the front of the aircraft and whether or not the structure
will cope. Being lightweight limeys the useful load loss is not really a
problem. Most people seem to think RVs come out with an aft CofG if
anything anyway which the heavy combo should help.
By the way our motor is an AEIO-360 A1A without the inverted system (at
the moment.....) and the prop is a Hartzell HC-C2YK 4CF/FC7666A-2. Both
were bought because of the price and availability. The prop was brand
new, still in its box and being disposed off by British Aerospace. It
was originally for the Scottish Aviation Bulldog RAF basic trainer which
was powered by an AEIO-360 A1B6D, I think. The price - about US$1800...!
Thanks once again to all who helped - hopefully I can help some others
at some stage. Trouble is I look after Cessnas and Pipers as a day job -
no use to man nor beast, really.
Jerry Parr
RV-6 G-RVVI
Up to my armpits in rudder pedals
Peterborough
England
PS If anyone still wants to know, the article on prop comparison in the
Sport Aviation was the Jan 91 issue.
PPS I would ditch bog standard mags for electronic ignition anyday -
let's go modern!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net> |
Listers--
I called Van's today to find out where to send cards, flowers or
whatever for John, and was given the following address where his widow,
Sally, will be for a while. If you feel the desire to send a card, I'm
sure she would appreciate hearing from John's extended RV family.
Sally Morgan
760 Ocotillo Road
Blythe, CA 92225
--Don McNamara
N8RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vetterman Exhaust Leak- Fixed |
<< it often pops once on
final approach, >>
Does this "pop" happen when you first pull power? Does it seem to happen less
on a "hot" day? When flying C-150 with an 0-200, I almost always got the
"pop", and was told by my instructor that it was cooler air hitting the valves
due to a temporary lack of back pressure. I never let it worry me. Any
thoughts on this??
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
I am wiring my electric trim, and would like to know what kind of solder to
use when connecting the cable to the servo....anyone have some advice?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Graf <markgraf(at)sprintmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New Bearing Question! |
> >There is one small problem....how the heck do you tighten them???? I
> >normally do not have to ask step by step questions, but this one has just
> >got me........
Tightening them is a slow, tedious 1/8 turn at a time affair.... don't
do it
> until final install and/or use non lock nuts for interim fittings....
I used a small set of ignition wrenches from sears. I had them for my
autos...someone around you should have a few to borrow. They were handy
for other jobs in tight areas as well. A good tool is a joy forever.
Mark Graf
RV-6 N71CG 150 hp
Arvada CO
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
> DO NOT PUT AN AUTO ENGINE IN YOUR AIRPLANE
>
> Mike Adams/-4/#2316
>
P.S. Be sure to retain the farm tractor ignition systems & carb, and the 60+ year
old metalurgy, and the overall unreliable (yes, UNRELIABLE) nature of your antique
engine on your brand new plane.
Seriously, opinions are like that well known & hopefully unseen part of the
anatomy; everybody's got one.
Mine is: better to warn of the many pitfalls of EXPERIMENTING with the power plant
in addition to EXPERIMENTING with the airframe.
If you are serious, contact Tracy Crook (email 71175.606(at)compuserve.com). He has
over 600 hours on a 13b powered RV-4 and is very candid about both the advantages
and problems involved. He publishes an excellent newsletter on the subject.
To the rest of us: it doesn't seem reasonable to me to express such unwavering,
dogmatic opinions without reasoned evidence to back it up. I'll bet we all have
friends who consider us crazy for building our on a/c in the first place (but who
know nothing at all about the subject).
I've owned 4 planes (2 factory, 2 homebuilt), all with a/c engines, none of which
inspired as much confidence in reliability as my various car engines.
I had a friend who died in a Ford V-6 powered Mustang II. I feel that I've seen
it from both sides.
I currently fly a Lyc powered RV-4. I hope that the plane I build will be auto
powered, but I'm doing all I can to learn about the "gotcha's" before I start.
We pilots seem to be almost as superstitious as baseball players, and as
susceptable to propaganda as communists or John Birchers. (please, no political
threads)
Bottom line: Question everything. Including your powerplant.
Charlie England
Slobovia Outernational, Jackson, MS
visitors welcome (you can halp build the house so I can start on the plane)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: HS-411 bearing - Prime? |
>
>Make sure you always check rivet lengths, don't just trust what you see
>in the plans.
My understanding is that rivet lengths are not ordinarily called out on
plans for aircraft structures. It is intended that you calculate the length
required based on the structure call outs.
Van is just being nice to tyros
Leo Davies
leo(at)icn.su.oz.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
Personally,
I would use crimp connectors. Solder makes the end of the wire brittle such
that
fatigue can break it after some time. If you solder, mechanical strain
relief
the flying leads. Any hardware store should carry electrical rosin flux
solder.
Don't use acid flux!
mikewilson
RV4 in the finishing 80% left to go stage.
I am wiring my electric trim, and would like to know what kind of solder to
use when connecting the cable to the servo....anyone have some advice?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
Yes. DO NOT USE SOLDER..... unless unavoidable. Unless the cable is very
well supported it leads to the wire breaking where the solder ends. Use
good crimp lugs or joiners where possible. If you must use solder use good
heatshrink tube over it to support the joint. Cheers, Brian
----------
> From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Solder?
> Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 11:41 PM
>
>
> I am wiring my electric trim, and would like to know what kind of solder
to
> use when connecting the cable to the servo....anyone have some advice?
>
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> Mounting Empennage
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
My advice would be to use 63/37 flux core eutectic solder, if you can find it.
This solder has no plastic state. It is either liquid or it is solid. This
helps to eliminate fractures, should you not be real steady with your work.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: New Bearing Question! |
It makes it easier to tighten them if you use 12point nuts
instead of 6 point nuts
Stew RV4 273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
<< Solder makes the end of the wire brittle such
that
fatigue can break it after some time. >>
If you are sure you wish to solder this item, you may use a potting compound
that will absorb the shock, also act as a seal to moisture, and keep the
solder from experiencing fatigue.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Only one to use.. Rosin core!! You might consider a disconnect
connector however.. RV4 273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Sally Morgan's Address |
All:
I inadvertently deleated the message containing Sally Morgan's address.
Would someone be kind enough to email it to me?
Best Regards,
dave Barnhart
barnhart(at)a.crl.com
RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
on't know why other than air is being ramme through the
hole and slowing the air coming down through the cyls.
David Malott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
>Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV? I'm certainly
>leaning that way. I'm pretty well along on the wings for my RV-4. Any input is
>welcome, even negative, so fire away. Brian, Redmond, Wa
I'm building an RV-8A, and the engine will either be Mazda or Lycoming. It's
really too soon to decide, but I have all Tracy Crook's info, and plan to go
visit him one of these days. I'm even planning to pick up a junk engine just to
take it apart for the experience.
There are many factors to consider. The easy and practical thing to do is bolt
up a Lycoming and go. In the long run, it might even be the cheapest, but this
violates my sense of individuality in a big way. IMO, the rotary engine is the
best design there is, and I wouldn't have the slightest hesitation to fly behind
one. The downside to any conversion is extra building time, frustration, extra
risk, and potentially poor resale value.
"DO NOT PUT AN AUTO ENGINE IN YOUR AIRPLANE"
"You're crazy if you fly something built in a garage" is another one of my
favorite quotes :-) All my life, I've gone out of my way to do what others say
you shouldn't, and I've rarely been disappointed by the results. I'll take this
statement as a vote for Mazda :-)
Rusty
Navarre, FL
Kolb SlingShot (flying)
RV-8A (waiting for wing kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C&F Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
Paul,
Use rosin core solder only!
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig "G." Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net> |
| Subject: | washer identification |
Could someone help me identify some washer callout numbers?
On plan sheet number 19a there is a washer 5702-95-30. Plan calls
for two of these washers to set next to the VA-146 bearing on the
bellcrank. I have the book Standard Aircraft Handbook to identify
parts and it is not listed.
Also there are two washers 5702-75-60 that are placed between the
hiem bearing on the bellcrank that I can not identify.
If someone could describe the size of these washers I would be
gratefull.
Thank you in advance. Craig
Craig Nelson
RV-6 serial # 25101
cgn(at)pond.net
Eugene, OR
wings finished!
Installing ailerons and flaps!
__I__
______O______
o/ \o
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <hyde(at)bcl.net> |
At 03:41 PM 5/27/98, Paul Besing
wrote:
>
>I am wiring my electric trim, and would like to know what kind of solder to
>use when connecting the cable to the servo....anyone have some advice?
>
SNIP
For anything resembling electronics, the only thing to use is 60/40 rosin
multicore (or 63/37 eutectic alloy if it's available). Thin is good -- I
usually like 22ga.
The other essential thing is to have a good thermostatically-controlled
soldering iron, and ALWAYS clean the tip immediately before soldering to
remove the oxidized solder layer that forms on the iron tip within a few
seconds. The tip should be shiny.
I just looked in the Digi-Key catalog, and they have an iron from Easy
Braid Co. that looks like it might be OK and the fancy model is only $20
(p443). I've never seen that one, though, so I can't say whether it's
actually any good. For years, I have used a Weller WTCP60, which Digi-Key
doesn't carry, but I think Newark still does.
Not to look too much like an ad, but Digi-Key is a good place to get
electronic stuff, and easy to order from (almost like RV suppliers). They
are at 1-800-344-4539 or http://www.digikey.com . Radio Shack is not a
good supplier. Their irons are junk and their solder is huge and whatever
alloy it is, it is not shiny like the real stuff.
I learned soldering from NASA techs at Marshall Space Flight Center when I
was a coop student. At the time they were testing the Saturn V rockets
that were going to carry Apollo astronauts (spam in the can to us rocket
guys). Those guys were just along for the ride -- it was our computers
that were driving...
Back to soldering -- the idea is to get the joint hot so that the solder
flows all over it. Clean the iron tip (usually with a sponge, but a damp
rag will work), melt a little "pillow" of solder on the iron, then touch
the pillow to the joint so that the little blob of molten solder makes a
good thermal connection. Wait a few seconds, then touch the solder to the
joint. If it melts and flows readily, flow on enough to fill in the spaces
but not drip. If it's not hot enough, wait some more.
One reason for using that expensive Tyvek insulated wire is that the
insulation won't melt and burn when you solder, so you can apply enough
heat to get a really good joint. That's one reason I wouldn't want to use
automotive wire in my airplane.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sally Morgan's Address |
It is Sally Morgan
760 Ocotillo Rd.
Blythe, Ca. 92225
Stew RV4 273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
>Seriously, opinions are like that well known & hopefully unseen part of the
>anatomy; everybody's got one.
>Bottom line: Question everything. Including your powerplant.
>
>Charlie England
>Slobovia Outernational, Jackson, MS
>visitors welcome (you can halp build the house so I can start on the plane)
>
Correction: Opinions unlike a------s quite commonly come more than one per
person>
>
jim - wing tanks next. ( B.C. Canada.)>
>
* When dreams come true the sky's the limit *
jjewell(at)okanagan.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tank skin rivets |
RV-8 builders,
When drilling the top of the tank skin to the baffle, the last 15 or 20 holes
are so close to the spar reinforcement bar that the drill bit hits it. Not a
problem in itself however I am concerned that the shop set on the rivits will
hit the re-bar.
Anyone had this situation occur and was it a problem?
Thanks IA
Dennis Clay
wings happening
Eugene OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Shaftela wrote:
Sure! I am. I'm trying to duplicate Tracy Crook's installation, although
I made a simpler engine mount (using the cheaper lord mounts - $21 for 8
at Wag Aero). Also moved the muffler over to the left side - less space
in my RV-3 cowling. By the way, Tracy now has an fuel-injection system,
replacing his three bike carburators.
Finn
(RV-3, just about done with the *&^&^%^&$# canopy!)
>
> Anyone out there comtemplating putting a Mazda 13B into an RV?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Rv 6A- bend in .063 angle |
I broke my .063 angle that runs parallel to the upper & lower longerons
between the 601 & 604 bulkheads. Does anyone have any suggestions on a
technique to bend it. All I did was run a four cycle fatigue test. I
drilled a hole & removed the metal with a saw & filed. Looks like I need
to start the bend before it gets to the 604 & then bend back I guess an
opposite 45% angle. If i bend the first radius then how can I hold it to
bend back the other way?
Does the front end line up with the SS firewall and is held there with
the little "L" shape angle? I watched George's vedio again & just like
the other night, his when together with no problems as usual.
Don Jordan ~ N76DJ ~ 6A-fuselage
donspawn(at)juno.com ~ Arlington, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark(at)edt.com (Mark C. Mason) |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
> "DO NOT PUT AN AUTO ENGINE IN YOUR AIRPLANE"
My understanding is that auto engines are designed for mostly
low power output punctuated by occasional spurts of high power.
And that aircraft engines typically run at or near full throttle
most of the time, yet retain a high degree of reliability.
Auto racing engines on the other hand are also used mostly at
or near full throttle. Nevertheless they are rebuilt often, sometimes
after each race.
Would someone in-the-know care to comment about the expected reliability
of non-racing auto engines used mostly at or near full throttle?
Mark Mason
Portland/Hillboro Oregon
Pondering an RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< y understanding is that auto engines are designed for mostly
low power output punctuated by occasional spurts of high power.
And that aircraft engines typically run at or near full throttle
most of the time, yet retain a high degree of reliability.
Auto racing engines on the other hand are also used mostly at
or near full throttle. Nevertheless they are rebuilt often, sometimes
after each race.
>>
Mark,
Your comment about reciprocating racing car engines is true but does not apply
to rotarys. A friend of mine used to race a rotary and he would go to Daytona
and race for 24 hours at 10000+ RPM. He would not tear the engine down, but
take it to a race in Miami next weekend. The rotor was basically a stock
rotor. I worked at Pratt Whitney as a turbine engineer for 33 years and for
the life of me can not believe that NASCAR folks are able to hold a
reciprocating piston engine together at 9000 rpm for 500 miles. If the auto
industry had put as much effort in developing the almost bullet proof rotary
in our cars. 500000 mile car engines would be standard fare IMHO.
I am building a 6A and will put a New Ly. in it because I am 61 years old and
wish to be flying rather than working on installing and developing an
alternate engine. I may start another project with a rotary powerplant when
this one is flying.
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuse., SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
I will be in the DAL area all next week. I would love to see some RV's,
flying or under construction. I am especially interested in wings under
construction or -8 fuselages.
If you would like a set of hands to help out or some gas money please
E-mail me direct.
Thanks
Scott A. Jordan
-8 #331
flaps & ailerons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
"Robert D. Binzer"
robinzer(at)seidata.com
Has anyone checked out the Mar-Hyde Self Etching Primer for use instead
of Zinc Chromate or Zinc-Oxide? Can any one offer yeah or nay on this?
Bob Binzer RV-6A tailfeathers Madison, Indiana
Bob,
Several people have told me that Mar-Hyde is the best.
Strong, scratch resistant, and seals unlike Veriprime so you can put it
on and you don't have to cover it in a couple of days. Just what I want
for at least the inside of the bird. I bought a can at the local paint
store for
$14.00, then someone mentioned that you can buy the same under the name
Martin Seniour self etching primer 7220 at your local NAPA store
so I bought three cans of that at $5.00/can. HTH
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)Adobe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: tank skin rivets |
Dennis,
This is not a problem. Just drill these last few holes
with the tank off the spar and on the bench. There is
just enough clearance for the shop head of the rivets
so don't worry about it. It will fit just fine.
Jeff Hawkins
RV-8 #563
Suwanee, GA
Left wing almost done.
>
>RV-8 builders,
>
>When drilling the top of the tank skin to the baffle, the last 15 or 20 holes
>are so close to the spar reinforcement bar that the drill bit hits it. Not a
>problem in itself however I am concerned that the shop set on the rivits will
>hit the re-bar.
>
>Anyone had this situation occur and was it a problem?
>
>Thanks IA
>
>Dennis Clay
>wings happening
>Eugene OR
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)Adobe.COM> |
Hi Paul,
Tony B's yellow book has a whole chapter on this kind
of stuff. If you do not have his books I highly recommend
you get them. They are great reading when your not building.
Jeff Hawkins
RV-8 #563
Suwanee, GA
Finishing left wing
>
>I am wiring my electric trim, and would like to know what kind of solder to
>use when connecting the cable to the servo....anyone have some advice?
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>Mounting Empennage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Regarding the reccommendations of using connectors instead of solder to
join the wires for my trim, can someone reccommend a
type/model/manufacturer for these wires...If you are not familiar with
them, there is about six wires, and they are about 26 ga wire....
Thanks...
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
>Regarding the reccommendations of using connectors instead of solder to
>join the wires for my trim, can someone reccommend a
>type/model/manufacturer for these wires...If you are not familiar with
>them, there is about six wires, and they are about 26 ga wire....
>
>
>Thanks...
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>Mounting empennage
Paul .. this is in the archives. Search for "trim' AND "connector"
... Of course ... I like this 'hit' the best...:^) I have since bought
these connectors, and they are exactly as advertised.
... Gil (it's in the archives) Alexander
*** from the RV-List archives at
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/search.htm ***
############################################################
# "trim" AND "connector" - Match #9 at Msg #6523 (18.5%) #
############################################################
___
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:47:13 -0800
From: gil(at)rassp.hac.com (Gil Alexander)
Subject: Re: RV-List: Suitable CONNECTORs for electric TRIM
>If you are not looking for a waterproof CONNECTOR, it's hard to beat the
>old square, white Molex CONNECTOR. I've used them in aircraft for
>years. They are cheap and reliable (they are NOT reliable if they are
>constantly being connected and disconnected though.) I would recommend
>the style that uses the .092-diameter pins instead of the smaller
>.063-diameter pins.
>
>If you are looking for something waterproof, the only thing I've found
>are those mil-spec Cannon plugs, but they are heavy. Cannon makes a
>lighter plastic variety, but they are not waterproof.
RV-guys.....
Just checked my Newark catalog. Mil-spec CONNECTORs are $100+ .. WOW!!
But ....
They Newark sells "Conxall" brand weathertight 'Mini-Con-X Cable End
CONNECTORs' that are designed for outdoor use. Mated, the plug/socket
combo. is about 2.7 inches long by 0.7 inch diameter, but it's made of
high-impact molded material, so should not be heavy. The length dimension
includes the "weathertight rubber grommet/seal" and strain relief. They
have gold-plated solder cup connections, so no special crimping tools are
needed, just solder the wire to the CONNECTOR.
For the Pacific Northwet, I believe these CONNECTORs would be better than
the Molex ones, and more weatherproof than the plastic DIN CONNECTORs
supplied by MAC.
For 6 contacts, the part numbers are:
stock# Conxall part# description price ($)
89F4115 6282-6SG-3XX 6 contact cable end socket conn. 6.69
93F7231 8282-6PG-3XX 6 contact cable-cable pin conn. 3.42
A panel mount version is also made:
8F4135 7282-6PG-300 6 contact panel mount socket conn. 5.80
They are a normal stock item (200+ at the local warehouse).
Newark is a supplier of electronic components, etc., and has
distributors all over the US, and has a good, 2+ inch thick catalog. Call
and get their catalog since they have a $25 minimum charge :^)
Catalog requests go to 1-800-298-3133 ext 48, and the catalog lists
all of the regional offices.
... hope this helps ..... Gil Alexander
gil(at)rassp.hac.com
RV6A, #20701
PS .. I haven't bought these CONNECTORs, but after finding them in the
catalog, I think I will use them for all of my electric TRIM cable
hook-ups. The micro version of the above CONNECTOR at 0.540 inch diam. (2
or 3 contacts) should make a good CONNECTOR for the PTT switch in the
removeable passengers control stick.
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
Newsletter Editors: Permission given to re-print if
credit is given and a courtesy copy is sent to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv 6A- bend in .063 angle |
>I broke my .063 angle that runs parallel to the upper & lower longerons
>between the 601 & 604 bulkheads. Does anyone have any suggestions on a
>technique to bend it. All I did was run a four cycle fatigue test. I
>drilled a hole & removed the metal with a saw & filed. Looks like I need
>to start the bend before it gets to the 604 & then bend back I guess an
>opposite 45% angle. If i bend the first radius then how can I hold it to
>bend back the other way?
>
>Does the front end line up with the SS firewall and is held there with
>the little "L" shape angle? I watched George's vedio again & just like
>the other night, his when together with no problems as usual.
>
>Don Jordan ~ N76DJ ~ 6A-fuselage
>donspawn(at)juno.com ~ Arlington, Tx
Don,
You can possibly salvage the angle, if you wish. Just cut another short
piece of .063 angle, 2-3 inches long and rivet it where the long angle
attaches to the 604. In other words, the short piece will be riveted to the
longer angle and to the 604. I've done this on my RV-6 and on the one we're
building in Gillette. I felt that this is a faster method and in doing it
this way it is easier to get a smooth transition in this area so there is no
bulge in the skin.
You are correct about the attachment of the front part of this angle to
the firewall. A small angle is used attached to the angle on the firewall
and the angle from 604 to the firewall is attached to this angle.
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Mark,
While its true that most auto engines are operated as you describe, I dont
think its necessarily true that all are designed with that goal in mind.
Thus, I dont think its fair to write off all auto engines as hopeless for
use in aircraft. In chosing an engine consider the original application,
maintenance history,etc.. If the engine has experienced any success in
racing applications, boating applications, and especially aircraft
applications I think that would be a real good sign.
The Mazda 13B has proven to be nearly bulletproof in racing applications
and boat usage, and has been flown successfully in a number of aircraft.
The 2 aircraft examples that come to mind are Tracy Crook's RV, and Jim
Mayfield's autogyro. Jim's gyro is used in a training environment and sees
regular operation at 7000 RPM. His first engine was overhauled at approx
1100 hours for excessive oil consumption. Theory is that the engine's
premature failure was due to some cooling problems/overheating experienced
during development of the installation(the aircraft is based in Arizona).
Overhaul involved replacement of internal oil seals at a cost of less than
$1000. Last I heard the engine was running strong at over 1500 hours since
the overhaul when the gyro was sold.
Auto racing can provide a good indicator of an engine type's durability
and an engine that is popular with racers usually generates a healthy
supply of heavy duty aftermarket parts. Again, I feel it is unfair to write
off engine reliability based on racing history because most race engines
are highly stressed and frequent rebuilds are one of the costs of racing
competitively. An engine type which demonstrates good reliability in this
environment should do well in a less stressful aircraft application. What
do you think the reliability history of a Lyc O-320 would be if it was
required to deliver 400hp @ 5500 rpm continuously?
Keep in mind that many of the previous failures of auto conversions have
been due to application, poor installation, support system failures, etc...
and not failure of the basic engine. All the above obviously is just
opinion and I'm sure there will be those who will dispute them.
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
>> "DO NOT PUT AN AUTO ENGINE IN YOUR AIRPLANE"
>
>My understanding is that auto engines are designed for mostly
>low power output punctuated by occasional spurts of high power.
>And that aircraft engines typically run at or near full throttle
>most of the time, yet retain a high degree of reliability.
>
>Auto racing engines on the other hand are also used mostly at
>or near full throttle. Nevertheless they are rebuilt often, sometimes
>after each race.
>
>Would someone in-the-know care to comment about the expected reliability
>of non-racing auto engines used mostly at or near full throttle?
>
>Mark Mason
>Portland/Hillboro Oregon
>Pondering an RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OH NO! Auto engines in RVs |
If the auto
>industry had put as much effort in developing the almost bullet proof rotary
>in our cars. 500000 mile car engines would be standard fare IMHO.
>Bernie Kerr, 6A fuse., SE Fla
Will all the list members who have owned a Mazda powered by a rotary engine
please give us *YOUR* experiences? I've seen several Mazda conversions,
and haven't seen anyone demonstrate superior engine life to the Lyconental.
More power for given size, yes. Less vibration, yes, at least at the low
frequencies which we are used to in the Lyconental. Better fuel
consumption? Hmmmm, a qualified *MAYBE*.
I take issue with the "500000 mile [rotary] car engine". Mazda sells just
one rotary powered vehicle anymore, the RX-7. This car has an engine life
expectancy of less than 60,000 in "normal service". Mazda has an
excetional warranty policy over the years which has disguised this short
life. They will replace the engine under warranty (50,000 published, more
if the customer asks). Essentially you buy the RX-7 plus your replacement
engine at the time of purchase. They install it when the first engine
begins to fail, and then by the time the second engine bites the dust the
original owner has sold the car and the subsequent owners don't expect that
a 120,000 + mile car should have the engine last forever.
This is not an indictment of auto engines in general or even Mazda engines
in particular when used in aircraft. There have after all be certified
auto engines in production aircraft! (Go look it up if you are a true
believer in the sacred Lyconental engine.)
Modern auto engines need a PSRU to drop their RPM to acceptable prop RPMs.
This is often the most difficult portion of the conversion. Numerous
failures have occurred when very minor parts have failed on conversions.
An oil leak from a cheap brass fitting used instead of steel or aluminum AN
type fittings, water leaks from hoses, cracks occurring in components
because of undamped vibrations, failed cotter pins or safety wire, etc.
The point is that few of the failures are from the "engine" itself. It is
mostly accessory failure which has caused auto engine failures in aircraft.
Did you follow the extensive work of PowerSport in their rotary
conversions?
I have had extensive experience with a successful auto engine conversion.
The airplane has operated hundreds of hours with a Honda Civic engine in
it. Almost every difficulty has been systems failures. The crank, rods,
pistons, block, head, valves and cam have all performed well. This is a
turbo charged setup with 42" MP as METO and 45" Max. The RPM at cruise is
4000-4500.
This engine is too small for even most RV-3s with only 120-125 HP. It was
very light though @ #170! Maybe someone would like to look into the 2L or
2.2L Accord engine.
The blanket statement that auto engines are unsuitable for A/C has been
repeatedly proven wrong by those that went the distance. 1 issue that
still dogs the auto engine is that there is essentially no "standard"
conversion. Everyone engineers enough of it in their basement to destroy
any chance of statistical models. If all Lycoming and Continental engines
were only available with no accessories, they would also have similar
failures (in addition to the well known problems they currently continue to
have). Imagine if every homebuilder had to fabricate their own
carburation, fuel pump, ignition system, oil cooling, etc. with *NO FACTORY
COMPONENTS*. Would these engines run any more or less reliable than the
FAA certified versions? In most every case the answer would be *LESS*
reliable.
If you go auto conversion because it is "cheaper", you will likely find it
is not. If you do it because you want something different and don't mind
the longer building time and the more extensive testing that comes with 2
experiments at once (airframe and powerplant), then go for it. Or if as I
did you use the auto conversion because there is no aircraft engine which
fits or is light enough or produces enough power for the weight. Then you
are willing to "pay the price" of doing the conversion.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Moradian" <tonym(at)enviroaqua.com> |
I forgot to mention in my intial email that I am located in Los Angeles, CA
if any one is interested.
Tony Moradian
Empenage #80398
N100TM reserved
tmoradia(at)ix.netcom.com
-----Original Message-----
From: J.C. Hassall <jhassall(at)ipass.net>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 1998 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: For Sale
>>
>>1. I have been building my rv-8 project in a 20X20X10 shelter. This
>>hangar/shelter/tent has galvenized steel frames that supports the material
>>covering it which is made out of polyethyline. It has zippered doors in
>>front which roll up through a pully system. The frame can be bolted to
the
>>ground as mine is. I am remodeling the house and building a garage so i
>>don't need the hangar any more. The unit was purchased last October @
>>$1300.00 I have shop lights hanging from the top which will go with it.
No
>>reasonable offer will be refused.
>>
>>2. I also have a steel jig for the wing and the empenage made out of 3/8"
>>thick square tubing with 5/16" thick base plates. It is solid. It was
made
>>last year also @ $380.00 I will sell it for $290.00 Please contact me
off
>>list if you are interested.
>
>Where are you located? Is the hangar shaped like a box or a quonset hut?
>
>TIA
>
>
>
>J.C. Hassall
>RV-6 Builder Wannabe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Mark Mason wrote:
> My understanding is that auto engines are designed for mostly
> low power output punctuated by occasional spurts of high power.
> And that aircraft engines typically run at or near full throttle
> most of the time, yet retain a high degree of reliability.
>
Partly right and partly wrong. Truck engines and marine derivatives of auto
engines are often operated for long extended periods at or near full power at
sea level. I don't know anyone who operates his aircraft engine at 100% for
more than a few minutes. I always back off my Debonair's Continental at or
below 1000 feet agl. Within a few minutes I am at an altitude where the most
power I can get is 75% at full throttle. For long flights and after a longer
time I'm well below that, maybe down to 50% or less. Full throttle does not
yield 100% power unless the engine is at sea level and rated RPM.
>
> Would someone in-the-know care to comment about the expected reliability
> of non-racing auto engines used mostly at or near full throttle?
>
The real issue is the reliability of auto engine derivatives (most installed in
aircraft are modified). I don't think the answers really exist yet. Durability
is less important, at least to me. I'd rather have an engine I can rely on for
500 hours but is then worn out and cheaply overhauled than one that lasts 2000
hours but that I worry about all the time. This statement is about me though,
not engines! The other big issue is weight but as fuel economy pressures
continue, weight is rapidly coming down.
The overwhelming virtue of auto engines is mass production. There are zillions
of them and they are dirt cheap. They are cheap because they are made in huge
quantities. Many don't understand just how big an effect on price high volume
production has. Get a factory tour - any mass product factory. It really can
be enlightening.
Using an auto engine can suck up as much time as it takes to build the airframe
and be exceedingly frustrating. I'm sure it is not for everyone.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
What about the Everett Hatch rotary conversion?
The last distributed info was that the remaining company director was
planning to go forward with the manufacture of the plane jane versionof the
engine expected to sell for about 15K.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rotary Engines in Aircraft |
Because I am anxious to fly, I will probably install a Lyc because of
the engineering and extra work involved, but I am a big fan of
alternative engine research that will help rock the avaition power
plant boat. I found this on the internet at
http://www.monito.com/wankel/aircraft.html and I thought this would be
interesting:
[quote]The first application of the rotary to an aircraft that this
writer is aware of was a 1968 or 1969 Lockheed experimental Q-Star
powered sailplane, a civilian version of the US Army's QT-2
reconnaissance plane, basically a Schweizer, two seater. It was
powered by a 185 HP Curtiss-Wright RC2-60 Wankel rotary engine,
complete with an automobile radiator.[unquote]
It seems to me that rotaries do have an aviation history and that
these guys may be on to something.
Chris Browne
Atlanta
-6 Trim Tab
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Will any one who lives a reasonable distance from Hagerstown or
Frederick, Maryland
please contact me personally at emcole(at)ix.netcom.com
Thanks,
Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tank skin rivets |
>RV-8 builders,
>
>When drilling the top of the tank skin to the baffle, the last 15 or 20
holes
>are so close to the spar reinforcement bar that the drill bit hits it.
Not a
>problem in itself however I am concerned that the shop set on the
rivits will
>hit the re-bar.
>
>Anyone had this situation occur and was it a problem?
>
>Thanks IA
>
>Dennis Clay
>wings happening
>Eugene OR
>
Dennis,
Yes, happened on my left wing. On my right wing, I slid the drill stop
up on the bit so the bit would juuust barely penetrate through the
baffle..and not contact the spar underneath. Oh well, live and learn. On
the small gouges made on the left spar, I dressed them down with a
jewelers file (round) and polished with scothbrite pad. I'm not
concerned at all about it.
Press on!
Brian Denk
-8 #379
wings almost done!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | bend in .063 angle |
> You can possibly salvage the angle, if you wish. Just cut another
>short piece of .063 angle, 2-3 inches long and rivet it where the long
angle
>attaches to the 604. In other words, the short piece will be riveted
>to the longer angle and to the 604.
>Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
Thanks Bob:
I may go that way. I was trying to visulise what it would look like when
out of the fixture. If that will work I think I will do it to both sides
& hope you don't tell any one.
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
I hate to mention it,
BUT !!! I think for the last few months over at Lycoming they had their
office staff building engines while the real experts were on strike. Makes me
kidda nervous buying new from Lycoming right Now. imagine ( file clerk: what
spec did they call for on those main rod end bearings? janitor:: spec? I
just cleaned it, it better not have no spec on it !!! )
scary !!!
scott reviere
winging it in Tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Nav Aid Wing Leveler Installation |
Seriously considering retrofitting a NAV AID wing leveler into my RV-6A
- flying. Can this unit be fitted under the seats and connected to the
aileron push tubes, or must it be installed internally in the wing? The
later would be very impractical in a completed plane, but just might be
possible under the seats. Any experience out there?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
There was a brief comment in a recent Sport Aviation that Steve Beckham was
looking for a buyer for the company.
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>
>What about the Everett Hatch rotary conversion?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OH NO! Auto engines in RVs |
Regarding Mazda RX7 rotary engine reliability in automobiles:
I would take emphatic exception with the idea that they were (are?) only
good for about 60,000 miles. This is what the Nissan dealer told me when I
bought my Mazda RX7 new in '82. I drove it for about 180,000 miles with no
basic engine problems at all. (By "basic", I am excluding the accessories.
I had minor ignition problems that were solved by replacing a computer
component.) When I sold it after driving it about 15 years, it had
developed an oil leak in the o ring between the sections that house each
rotor. It's still running -- and still leaking -- somewhere in Texas.
My biggest hesitation in replacing it with a Miata was that I would have to
give up the rotary engine. After enjoying this little 4 banger for a couple
of years though, I wouldn't go back -- in a car.
The biggest annoyance I experienced with the rotary was what happens when
you flood it. It was explained to me that too much raw gas softened the
rotor tip seals, destroying the compression until they dried out. The
technique for starting a flooded rotary was to pour a quart of oil down the
carb and crank it until it started, and hope the cloud of smoke didn't bring
the fire department, or worse yet, the EPA.
>Will all the list members who have owned a Mazda powered by a rotary engine
>please give us *YOUR* experiences? > snipped
>I take issue with the "500000 mile [rotary] car engine". Mazda sells just
>one rotary powered vehicle anymore, the RX-7. This car has an engine life
>expectancy of less than 60,000 in "normal service". Mazda has an
>excetional warranty policy over the years which has disguised this short
>life. They will replace the engine under warranty (50,000 published, more
>if the customer asks). Essentially you buy the RX-7 plus your replacement
>engine at the time of purchase. They install it when the first engine
>begins to fail, and then by the time the second engine bites the dust the
>original owner has sold the car and the subsequent owners don't expect that
>a 120,000 + mile car should have the engine last forever.
>
Terry Watson
RV-8 #729
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< I think for the last few months over at Lycoming they had their
office staff building engines while the real experts were on strike. >>
DITTO
Did the labor dispute ever get settled? I don't believe it did. It would be
nice if we could "rock their world" a little bit, "not that they'd care".
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: OH NO! Auto engines in RVs |
Bob Steward wrote:
>This car (the Mazda RX7) has an engine life
> expectancy of less than 60,000 in "normal service". .
>
I must be lucky. Each of my three (3) RX7s have over 125,000 miles on them
with no problems. These *ARE* original engines.
I believe the RX7 is now discontinued entirely. The main drawback to these
engines in autos is that the piston engines have gotten to be much better at
fuel economy. My wife loves them and our three are all a hoot to drive and the
latest ones are really works of art. Owners say the new Corvette is just a
copy.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<<
BUT !!! I think for the last few months over at Lycoming they had their
office staff building engines while the real experts were on strike. Makes
me
kidda nervous buying new from Lycoming right Now. imagine ( file clerk: what
spec did they call for on those main rod end bearings? janitor:: spec? I
just cleaned it, it better not have no spec on it !!! )
scary !!! >>
I've heard that Lycosaur has most/all of the components built overseas (lower
labor costs?). So...we've got the lowest-wage people building the parts and
the office staff slapping (slopping?) them together.
This is a prescription for relilability?!?!?
Question for Mazda experts. When we talk of a Mazda doing 6000 rpm, just what
is doing 6000 rpm? The rotors or the output shaft? The rotor turns once for
each turn of the output shaft so which is it? Might make a difference in the
attitude of the openminded (nothing's going to affect the rest of 'em).
And as to reliability, if the engine quits you've got a glider...if the
airframe quits you've got a rock. Seems to me that if you want to err on the
side of conservatism you'd put a Chevy in a Cessna. A Chessna? Of course if
you're that worried what the heck are you doing reading this? You're supposed
to be on a 737 (one that's had all the latest repairs of course.)
Tails done and 6QB kit is in the world's narrowest hanger. (One car garage)
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy J. Pflanzer" <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Vacumm Instruments |
I am ready to order my directional gyro and my artifical horizon.
Do I need to special order these to account for the tilt of the
instrument panel? Or can I use the standard ones? It doesn't
seem that 6 to 8 degrees would be that big of a deal, but I'm
no expert on the subject.
I'm interested in hearing from the flying members of the list
as to their experiences. Thanks.
Randy Pflanzer RV-6
N417G "Special Angel" Wiring and Stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Bob Fritz,
Don't know why you are knocking Boeing 737's. One of the safest aircraft
ever
developed. Think about it!! How many accident free miles do you think the
737's
have??? A staggering amount!! You should be one of the people who
realizes
Airplanes are Mechanical . They can and do fail or break!
Stew RV4273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David and Beth Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacumm Instruments |
>Do I need to special order these to account for the tilt of the
>instrument panel? Or can I use the standard ones? It doesn't
>seem that 6 to 8 degrees would be that big of a deal
Randy,
I ordered mine with a 8 degree tilt for a -6A. This was recommended by a
friend of mine in our local chapter who is an IA & AP. I also discussed
this with Bill Benedict at Van's during Sun 'n Fun (3 yrs ago), he dragged
out the prints and confirmed that 8 degree's would be right. I ended up
ordering rebuilt from Century Instruments at the show that year. Haven't
had any trouble in 200 hours of flight, although they do act a little
"goofy" after aerobatics, I know I'm not doing them any good, but can't
help it! Tom Green suggested to me at the time to install a vacuum shut off
valve to disable the gyros during "the fun stuff". Never got around to it,
but it may be worth considering.
Also, there are different lengths of gyro's. I ordered the shorter version
so I wouldn't have to cut through the sub-panel.
Good Luck,
Dave -6A, (down for annual)(but not for long!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< When we talk of a Mazda doing 6000 rpm, just what
is doing 6000 rpm? The rotors or the output shaft? The rotor turns once for
each turn of the output shaft so which is it? >>
The rotor turns at 1/3 the output shaft.
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Listers,
Anyone heard any details of the RV8 crash? I am curious to know why a pilot
with nearly 10,000 hours suddenly gets killed on a routine flight....
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wing skeletons....
Almost ready to jig.
member that these
engines are 2 strokes, which contributes to high emissions, but they also
must burn a small amount of crankcase oil to lubricate the rotors. This oil
is purposely injected into the intake tract by a small pump controlled by
the throttle and driven by the eccentric shaft (rotary equivalent to a
crankshaft). This oil burning is a fact of life with a rotary as well as
being a pollution issue.
Just my $.02....
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wing skeletons....
Almost ready to jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark(at)edt.com (Mark C. Mason) |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Mazda rotary engines used to wear out rotor seals
at around 60,000 miles. They fixed this in the
early '80s.
Mark Mason
Portland/Hillboro
RV-6 maybe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
I spoke to the folks from MAC at S & F. I noticed a plug they had
installed on a trim motor (5 conductor--just what we need). It was
Radio Shack part nos. 274-003A, 274-006A. The only thing they changed
(and so will I) was to remove the pigtail extending from the plug and
used shrink wrap instead.
Marty RV-6AQ Erwinna, Pa.
Installing RMD Lights in tips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OH NO! Auto engines in RVs |
(apologies in advance to those who will consider this off topic)
>Will all the list members who have owned a Mazda powered by a rotary engine
>please give us *YOUR* experiences? I've seen several Mazda conversions,
I owned an 85 RX-7 and consider the rotary engine to have been the best engine
I've ever owned, though it wasn't powerful enough in those days. I ran the car
VERY hard including some SCCA solo events. However, I should note that I sold
the car at about 50,000 miles to buy something faster.
>I take issue with the "500000 mile [rotary] car engine". Mazda sells just
>one rotary powered vehicle anymore, the RX-7. This car has an engine life
>expectancy of less than 60,000 in "normal service". Mazda has an
First off, Mazda sold many cars and trucks in Japan with rotary engines. This
includes the 3 rotor engine that would be quite nice in my RV-8A. The engine
got (and deserved) a bad reputation during the early 70's when it was originally
introduced here, because of the problems they had with seals. THOSE engines
were good for about 50,000 before rebuild. Once the RX-7 was introduced in '79,
the 12A engine had been perfected, and no further problems existed. I've known
many people that had RX-7's with well over 100,000 miles and no engine problems.
IMO, you are certainly mistaken about the 60,000 "normal service" figure.
There are a couple of things that will trash a rotary though. They aren't
tolerant of overheating, and you should keep the oil clean because it's injected
in a small quantity to lubricate the apex seals. Ideally, the engine should
have a supply of 2-cycle injection oil that burns cleaner than regular motor
oil, but Mazda knew that most people would eventually let the reservoir run out
and trash the engine, so they just use oil from the pan.
>Essentially you buy the RX-7 plus your replacement
>engine at the time of purchase.
Damn, I guess Mazda still owes me an engine. Who do I call to claim it :-)
Rusty (don't talk bad about my rotary) Duffy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bend in .063 angle |
>Thanks Bob:
>I may go that way. I was trying to visulise what it would look like when
>out of the fixture. If that will work I think I will do it to both sides
>& hope you don't tell any one.
>Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
Gosh, Don, I don't think it's anything to be embarassed about:) I didn't
do the assembly this way because of an "uh oh" but because it seemed more
precise. Bending the altered .063 angle is kind of hit and miss as to
whether you will achive the "lines" that you want. Drilling, bending and
fitting as per plans also takes more time and if it doesn't fit flush with
604, you have to try again. No such problem with fitting a second (short)
piece of .063 and lapping over the long angle and the 604. But---I won't
tell anyone, either way.
Regards,
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instruments |
<< I am ready to order my directional gyro and my artifical horizon.
Do I need to special order these to account for the tilt of the
instrument panel? Or can I use the standard ones? It doesn't
seem that 6 to 8 degrees would be that big of a deal, but I'm
no expert on the subject. >>
Only the AG needs the 8 tilt. The DG is standard.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacumm Instruments |
Randy J. Pflanzer wrote:
>
>
> I am ready to order my directional gyro and my artifical horizon.
> Do I need to special order these to account for the tilt of the
> instrument panel? Or can I use the standard ones? It doesn't
> seem that 6 to 8 degrees would be that big of a deal, but I'm
> no expert on the subject.
>
> I'm interested in hearing from the flying members of the list
> as to their experiences. Thanks.
>
> Randy Pflanzer RV-6
> N417G "Special Angel" Wiring and Stuff
>
Randy
The AH works just fine without the tilt, mine is not tilted but
I wish it was. The problem is where the horizon line is in level
flight, I have to have the little adjustable airplane all the
way to the top of the adjustment to be even with the horizon line
in level flight.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
>Question for Mazda experts. When we talk of a Mazda doing 6000 rpm, just what
>is doing 6000 rpm? The rotors or the output shaft? The rotor turns once for
>each turn of the output shaft so which is it? Might make a difference in the
>attitude of the openminded (nothing's going to affect the rest of 'em).
(Disclaimer- not a Mazda "expert")
Each rotor housing fires once for every revolution of the eccentric shaft.
Therefore it takes 3 revolutions of the shaft to fire all sides of the rotors
once. This is one of the reasons that the rotary isn't stressed as much by
rpm's- the rotors are only turning 1/3 of the speed of the eccentric shaft. It
also makes the topic of "displacement" interesting :-)
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Mark C. Mason wrote:
> Auto racing engines on the other hand are also used mostly at
> or near full throttle. Nevertheless they are rebuilt often, sometimes
> after each race.
Except for the rotary, which apparently often goes a whole season
without being opened. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing to be
worried about are the systems attached to the engine (reduction gear,
fuel, ignition, cooling, oil, exhaust, etc.). You certainly don't have
to worry about it throwing a piston or valve! Worst case a seal might
start leaking, loosing a bit of power, plenty of warning.
Finn
than making them in Williamsport. There was an auction scheduled
last fall to sell off the Lycoming production tooling. I heard that a
Federal Judge stopped them from selling (as this would have made the
outsourcing a moot point if they no longer owned the equipment needed to
make engine parts.
There aren't likely to be *ANY* engines sitting around which were assembled
by the engineering and management staff. The market was so desperate for
engines that there was a 12-16 week wait for them to *LOOK* at warranty
claims. New engines were available on an AOG basis and each one was built
just for that particular order.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
<< Anyone heard any details of the RV8 crash? I am curious to know why a
pilot
with nearly 10,000 hours suddenly gets killed on a routine flight.... >>
Jon:
We are all naturally curious about the RV-8 crash... and I mean no flame be
directed at you, Jon, by my following comments.
The fact that the pilot had 10,000 hours may have little or no bearing upon
the reason for the accident... John Morgan was not alone in that airplane.
Van's has asked all of us here on the RV-List to make an effort to curb
rumors, and I hope we can all do just that. Bill Benedict informed me this
evening that Van arrived late today (Thursday) back in North Plains from his
trip to examine the wreckage after it was moved to Phoenix. They (Van's) have
not yet decided what was the actual cause of the accident, although much
discussion is taking place. I know from my own investigation that the Official
FAA report states "In flight break-up." This fact was not withheld by Van's. I
feel certain that Van will direct that a statement be issued very soon, and
that it will be truthful and factual no matter what the consequences may be.
So I will resist the temptation to speculate and await what the designer has
to say. Perhaps this is not so much to ask of us by the designer, after all,
has he not always acted responsibly?
Just my .02, getting off the soapbox now.
Jon Ross RV-80094 N207RV Skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | N106RV----Checking in! |
I thought that I'd check in with the list, an update of sorts on how my
testing is going.
I've put 8.3 hours on it to date. I managed to fly 2 hours, today. It seems
that the crimping I did on the number 3 exhaust leak, worked. I also noticed
that the afterfiring on base and final approach is almost gone. I did some
climb performance testing today. I did 3 full power climbs from 1500' to
10,500', at 105, 100, & 95 mph indicated. My initial weight was 1470 lbs. At
105 mph, the initial climb rate at 2500' was1600 fpm. For 100 & 95 mph at
2500' it was 1846 fpm. The average climb rates from 1500' to 10,500' were 105
mph = 963 fpm, 100 mph = 1001 fpm, and 95 mph = 1056 fpm. Using 95 mph, at
12,500' I was still climbing at 650 fpm.
I leveled off at 12,500' and set up a cruise configuration of MAP 18.6",
prop 2300. I was indicating 125 mph, 155 TAS when corrected for temp and
pressure. Using the formula for the GPS on three different headings, I
calculated that my calibrated airspeed was actually 168 mph, with a fuel burn
of 6.9 GPH. This should've been about 55% power. I've done some other cruise
airspeed calibration checks, and I'm always reading about 10 mph slower than
what I compute using the GPS three headings 90 degrees apart formula from
Kitplane magazine. I haven't done any slow speed calibration runs yet, so I
don't know if the error is across the whole range, or just at the high end.
I'm having some problems getting my engine to idle well after it gets heat
soaked. I suspect I may have a problem with the diaghram in the flow divider.
I'm thinking about pulling the injection system off and having it worked over.
Just when I think I have the idle mixture set just right, the next time I run
it, it changes. I know the idle mixture setting knob isn't moving, I marked it
and it's staying put. I wonder if it might just be a piece of crap stuck under
the seat. I wonder if I could disassemble the flow divider myself and inspect
if for foreign objects?
Man I love this airplane!!!!!!!!! Let the testing continue.............
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV IO-320-B1A
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Broken Arrow, Ok
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacumm Instruments |
<< Do I need to special order these to account for the tilt of the
instrument panel? Or can I use the standard ones? It doesn't
seem that 6 to 8 degrees would be that big of a deal, but I'm
no expert on the subject. >>
When I ordered mine, I forgot to request the 8 degree tilt. I called the shop
I bought the A/H from after I realized it, and they said to go ahead and try
it out, and if I felt it needed to be adjusted, they would take care of it.
It's a Sigma-Tek, and the horizon bar is adjustable. Well, it can be adjusted
to level the bar with the horizon on the indicator in flight, but the horizon
line on the indicator isn't in line with the lines on the outer frame. But I'm
having too much fun to pull it out and send it back in. I really don't find it
all that objectionable, but do wish I had remembered to specify the tilt when
I ordered it.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Broken Arrow, Ok
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
<< Anyone heard any details of the RV8 crash? I am curious to know why a
pilot
with nearly 10,000 hours suddenly gets killed on a routine flight....
Jon Elford >>
Jon,
Either im drunk or I cant help but think you have lost your mind!!!
What kind of question is this? Its kind of like asking why did Phil Hartman
shoot himself ? Who the hell knows!! We have no information.
I also cant believe your ridding the auto conversions because of emisions.
Lets face it no matter how you look at it we are turning a liquid (gasoline)
into a gas. None of it is good for our enviroment. It doesent matter if its a
Lycoming or a Mazda.
Ryan Bendure Co
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< Of course if
you're that worried what the heck are you doing reading this? You're
supposed
to be on a 737 (one that's had all the latest repairs of course.)
Tails done and 6QB kit is in the world's narrowest hanger. (One car garage)
Bob Fritz
>>
Sorry Bob but you sound like another person who is believing what the media
is telling you (you should know better by now). The 737 is one of the most
reliable jetliners ever built. I cant say where all the BS came from about the
frayed wiring within the conduit in the fuel tanks because it just wasnt true.
Sorry I was there but we all must believe what we need to believe.
Ryan Bendure Co
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
In a message dated 5/28/98 3:28:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mark(at)edt.com
writes:
<< Would someone in-the-know care to comment about the expected reliability
of non-racing auto engines used mostly at or near full throttle? >>
You HAD to ask didn't you.
Auto engines are not designed to run at full rated power for long periods of
time. The operative word in that sentence is rated. If an aircraft engine is
rated at 150 HP at 2700 RPM that means it will develop that HP at that RPM. If
an auto engine were rated accordingly,(at 2700 RPM), it would produce that
power level as long or longer than an aircraft engine. the problem is that the
auto engine power would probably be less than the equivalent aircraft engine.
Likewise, if you tried to operate an aircraft engine at 4,000 RPM it wouldn't
live very long either.
The key to this whole very controversial subject is not to expect unreasonable
amounts of power for ANY engine, and expect it to live very long. I expect to
run my V-6 Chevy, for the most part, under 4,000 RPM and as such I expect to
have a very acceptable TBO.
There are a lot of auto engines with more than 1,000 hours on them with no
problems, but they are not junkyard engines that were just thrwon together and
stuck in an airplane. You must assemble the engine with your mission profile
in mind, and then it will be just fine. I have read NO negative comments from
anyone who has actually flown behind an auto engine, only from people who
haven't tried it because "it won't work".
This ought to open the flame wars again, huh ??
Regards, Merle (Yes Virginia, auto engines can, and do, fly) Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: bend in .063 angle |
> more precise. Bending the altered .063 angle is kind of hit and
> miss as to whether you will achive the "lines" that you want.
> Drilling, bending and fitting as per plans also takes more time and
> if it doesn't fit flush with 604, you have to try again.
Actually Bob, it's quite precise if you joggle it by putting packing
of the appropriate thickness on both sides and squeezing it up in a
big vice. As always, practice on a piece of scrap.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 tailwheel on, main gear happening
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instruments |
Randy, I don't know about the AH or DG but some of the Turn Coordinators do
not like being inclined in the panel. I have a combined vacuum and
electric TC and it would slowly turn to one side when it was mounted on an
angle in my T18. The instrument shop said that was normal though I could'nt
understand why it would not do the same in a vertical panel in a sustained
dive or climb. The TC may be the odd one out as it has it's gyro mounted at
a 45 degree angle while a Turn and Bank Indicator and the others have the
shaft horizontal or vertical. Regards, Brian. Albany. West Aussie
Land.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
$14.00, then someone mentioned that you can buy the same under the
name Martin Seniour self etching primer 7220 at your local NAPA store
so I bought three cans of that at $5.00/can. HTH Larry Mac Donald
lm4(at)juno.com
>
Larry,
It's my understanding that the NAPA 7220 primer is supposed to be
Sherwin Williams primer, not Marhyde.
Rusty
Well, I guess I screwed that up pretty good. I apologize to all.
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com> |
><< Anyone heard any details of the RV8 crash? I am curious to know why a
>pilot
> with nearly 10,000 hours suddenly gets killed on a routine flight....
> Jon Elford >>
>
>Jon,
> Either im drunk or I cant help but think you have lost your mind!!!
>What kind of question is this? Its kind of like asking why did Phil Hartman
>shoot himself ? Who the hell knows!! We have no information.
I think you're being a little harsh on Jon. It's a reasonable question that
probably a few hundred of us on this list have not been able to get out of
our minds since we heard the news. No one is speculating on anything, and
the question is clearly no reflection on John's well-known excellent
airmanship and instructing abilities. It's precisely because John was such
a highly regarded pilot that many of us have been given pause to reflect.
In other words, whatever did happen in this horrible tragedy could just as
easily taken any one of us on the list because few I suspect there are very
of us here who, regardless of how good we may be, would ever claim to be a
"better" pilot than John.
Please rethink your analogy.....few of us are worried about us accidently
(or intentionally) shooting ourselves or being shot by a loved one. ALL of
us ARE concerned about making every flight a safe, successful one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
In a message dated 5/28/98 2:57:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, halk(at)sybase.com
writes:
<< Using an auto engine can suck up as much time as it takes to build the
airframe
and be exceedingly frustrating. I'm sure it is not for everyone. >>
How right you are !! I'm into my 8th month of installing my Chevy and I've
only got the engine mounted with no plumbing or wiring done yet. Most people
look at auto conversions for the wrong reasons (cheap) It IS less expensive,
but in order to have it succeed the most important parts are the systems
(fuel, ignition, cooling etc.) the darn engines are pretty much bulletproof,
but the failure modes are usually attributed to faulty systems outside the
actual engine. I am doing this as an engineering exercise, and because I've
heard it won't work, and any engineer loves to hear that !
I wouldn't reccommend it to everyone, but if you have the inclination, and can
take some frustrations (read engineering problems) go for it !
Regards, Merle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 5/29/98 3:34:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
JRoss10612(at)aol.com writes:
<< So I will resist the temptation to speculate and await what the designer
has
to say. Perhaps this is not so much to ask of us by the designer, after all,
has he not always acted responsibly? >>
I think we MUST NOT speculate or add fuel to any fire, but rather wait and see
what Van has to say. I'm sure he will come out with a statement as soon as
practicable. And, I might add there is nobody in the kitplane business IMHO
with more integrity than Van.
Regards, Merle (RV-4 Chevy) Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Brake line locations |
Can someone tell me where the AN fitting goes for the brakeline as it
exits the cockpit and goes out to the main gear. This is for a 6A. I
see the routing on the drawing but there is no measurement there on the
drawing.
Also, I have the dual brake option and don't feel too comforatable
putting those plastic tube fittings in on the passenger side. Anyone
have any thoughts on this one or even better actual field test feedback?
Gary Fesenbek
Roanoke, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Benedict <billb(at)atheria.europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
At Van's, we have at least one aircraft with the probe in the NACA inlet
and it works great on the ground. However, with cabin heat you can change
the OAT reading by up to 10 degrees F. I have been told that insulating the
end of the probe on the inside with some spray insulating foam in a paper
cup will thermally isolate the probe and allow accurate measurements.
Regards, Bill
>>Will--
>>I stuck my probe in the NACA vent on the right side! I drilled up from the
>>bottom about an inch back from the opening so you couldn't see it. I made the
>>hole a few thousandths undersized and added a tad of RTV when I inserted it,
>>seems very secure. Haven't tested it yet so can't give you any final details.
>>Dave---
>>RV6 hoping for Sept.
>>
>I have mine in the same location, but on the left side of the fuse. It is
>extremely accurate when the airplane is parked in the hanger. In flight, it
>is useless, it always reads high. If I had to do it over again, I'd
>probably mount it in the wing root fairing or out on the wing tip. One item
>on my "to do" list is to move this probe.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
>
Bill
RV-4-180 flying. N894RV with over 400 hours behind a O-320, Over 1000 RV
flying hours.
These opinions are mine and do not necessarily represent the opinions or
position of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tUnd(at)webtv.net (Tim Underwood) |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Exactly, spend some time at a race track. When the mazdas blow, there
are not parts all over the track, it just blows smoke and starts losing
power and comes to the pits on the next lap or so. Lots of warning and
still some power.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
>><< Anyone heard any details of the RV8 crash? I am curious to know why a
>>pilot
>> with nearly 10,000 hours suddenly gets killed on a routine flight....
>> Jon Elford >>
>>
>>Jon,
>> Either im drunk or I cant help but think you have lost your mind!!!
>>What kind of question is this?
There is nothing wrong with asking a question about an accident or
an incident. The answers often produces constructive, useful information to
do a better job of building and piloting. Even if 99.9% of the answers are
speculation, this includes hundreds of "offical report" speculating
officially on accidents and incidents.
Van has an excellent product, without question. Van and his staff
make a sincere and responsive effort, to the best of my knowledge, at all
times to make the products as "fool" proof as posible. That is why I bought
the kit. The rest is the resposibility of the builder and pilot. It is, for
education and it is experimental!
My limited conversations with John lead me to believe that he was a
educated, sincere, and competent pilot. He was alway diligent in his answers
to me when I ask for advise.
No one is above mistakes...that should not take anything away from
the pilot or the product in thinking men's minds. But the knowledge derived
from the mistakes can help us. I know many of the thought provoking (most
speculative) answers helped me through 50+ years of general and professional
flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-8 Fuse Jig- Oregon |
Listers; I will have my fuse out of the jig shortly, and would like to make
the jig available to others. I have reciepts for 130.00 for materials, and two
days labor to build it. Would like the standard (around here) $100 for it. It
is built straight and true out of dry high quality lumber. It is made to come
apart into two pieces for hauling with a pickup truck.
Located in Independence, Oregon, which is 10 miles from Salem, Oregon.
Von Alexander
RV-8#544
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robin.y.wessel(at)exgate.tek.com |
| Subject: | Cherry Rivet application |
I have made my first big opps! Building the elevator last night, I forgot to
rivet the control arm first and will be forced to use structural blind
rivets.
Question: The archives mention that CherryMax "Structural" rivets will be an
acceptable substitute for driven rivets. Do you need the $200 plus Cherry
brand Hydra Pullers or can I use my $15 Sears model to install 12 rivets.
Vans online catalog lists 5/32 Cherry "N" rivets as structural, but Cherry
lists them as non-structural. Is this the case were a 5/32 "N" rivet would
substitute for 1/8 rivet in a structural application?
Robin Wessel
RV-6A Ann Arbor, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Digi-Key Connectors |
Just a follow up on the connectors for the electric trim wires...I spoke
with the folks at Digi-Key yesterday, and they were extremely helpful...the
tech guys talked with me for about 20 minutes on all the possible options
that I had, the benifits, drawbacks, etc...I placed an order for some Molex
connectors, crimpers, etc...I'm sure I will be ordering more electrical
supplies from them in the future....
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
<< At Van's, we have at least one aircraft with the probe in the NACA inlet
and it works great on the ground. However, with cabin heat you can change
the OAT reading by up to 10 degrees F. I have been told that insulating the
end of the probe on the inside with some spray insulating foam in a paper
cup will thermally isolate the probe and allow accurate measurements.
Regards, Bill >>
I am considering mounting the OAT probe in the NACA fresh air inlet on the
lower wing skin on my RV-8, this should eliminate cabin/engine heat induced
errors. The wires will have to be made longer, but RMI says no problem.
Jon Ross RV-80094 Skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instruments |
>
>Randy, I don't know about the AH or DG but some of the Turn Coordinators do
>not like being inclined in the panel. I have a combined vacuum and
Is this 8 degree setting an adjustment or are the instruments manufactured
this way. The reason I am wondering is I already have mine and don't know
what they are set for.
Thanks
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
Well put Loren. I think this has sent a shudder throughout our community
and it is perfectly understandable to seek understanding and some sort of
resolution as to the cause.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
I received another e-mail from Jon concerning his seats. He
said they are already upholstered. I asked for pictures of the
seats and the colors so we could better determine which color
would better match our planes or existing upholstery. I will
pass it on when I hear back form him. There are 2 others besides
myself who are interested in these seats. Jon said they could
ship 4 to a box to cut down on the shipping (~350.00). Is anyone
else interested. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cherry Rivet application |
Check the archives. Someone else made this mistake not too long ago. I
believe they were told not to use "pop" rivets here, and it turned out they
only had to drill out a few solid rivets to get in there and buck the horn.
Moe
>
>I have made my first big opps! Building the elevator last night, I forgot
to
>rivet the control arm first and will be forced to use structural blind
>rivets.
>
>Question: The archives mention that CherryMax "Structural" rivets will be
an
>acceptable substitute for driven rivets. Do you need the $200 plus Cherry
>brand Hydra Pullers or can I use my $15 Sears model to install 12 rivets.
>
>Vans online catalog lists 5/32 Cherry "N" rivets as structural, but Cherry
>lists them as non-structural. Is this the case were a 5/32 "N" rivet would
>substitute for 1/8 rivet in a structural application?
>
>
>Robin Wessel
>RV-6A Ann Arbor, MI
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
I think the internet has caused us all to expect instant feedback on
everything. I know that I am a little more then frustrated that I can't find
a shred of info on this accident anywhere. The NTSB still has no report
(that I could find). I wouldn't expect Van to put anything about it on the
webpage. After all, the page is really just an advertisement, and this is
not the type of thing you want to advertise about your product. Keep in mind
that if it wasn't for the internet, most of us wouldn't even know about this
until the next RV-ater came out. I think we should all be patient, Van is a
straight shooter, and I'm sure we will all be satisfied with his report.
Moe Colontonio
RV-8Q #00485
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
>Well put Loren. I think this has sent a shudder throughout our community
>and it is perfectly understandable to seek understanding and some sort of
>resolution as to the cause.
>
>Shelby in Nashville.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
| Subject: | General Question: Autogas in Lyc |
This is an open question to the list:
I was in Edmonton, Canada (Villeneuve) last week, and got a
chance to fly a rental (C-172) with an instructor in the local area.
When checking the sumps, lo and behold the gas was yellow! When I
asked, he said they run on Autogas mostly. He indicated that they will
run three or four tanks of Autogas, and then fill it up with a tank of
100LL, the idea being that the engine is o.k. when fed only an
occasional dose of leaded fuel to keep the valves and stuff happy.
I'd like to hear some opinions on that. I'd also like to hear
some opinions as to what happens to rated HP when running with the lower
octane number - does it drop noticeably? That is my guess.
Keith Jensen
Pocatello, Idaho
-6A HS done - trying to figure out how to store it so I can get
going on the VS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
><< At Van's, we have at least one aircraft with the probe in the NACA inlet
> and it works great on the ground. However, with cabin heat you can change
> the OAT reading by up to 10 degrees F.
For RV-6, where is a good place for RMI OAT probe? I would thing in
a dead air area to minimize temp rise from friction. I know at our speeds
it is not much of a factor, but it would amount a small amount.
A Good Day to you!
Denny
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Brake line locations |
<< Can someone tell me where the AN fitting goes for the brakeline as it
exits the cockpit and goes out to the main gear. This is for a 6A. I
see the routing on the drawing but there is no measurement there on the
drawing.>>
I'll take a measurement today for you. All of the wing related tubing
obviously needs to be contained by the wing root fairing so put your airfoil
template up against the side of the fuse and outline it. I used the 1/4"
right angle bulkhead fittings. Mine are in the reinforced area ahead of the
spar (6A). You drill a hole thru both sheets and then chase the outside hole
to a diameter sufficient to tighten the nut.
<< Also, I have the dual brake option and don't feel too comforatable
putting those plastic tube fittings in on the passenger side. Anyone
have any thoughts on this one or even better actual field test feedback? >>
I used a one into four manifold from ACS and ran the plastic lines from that
into the top of each master cyl (I have shuttle valves so this is required)
using Parker Hannifin brass fittings for plastic tubing.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cherry Rivet application |
If you use the 1/8" Cherrymax rivets you can pull them with a good
hand puller. They have a small washer around the stem that sets the
lockring and enables you to use the standard pulling head. Make SURE
you use the correct Grip Length!!!
Stew RV4273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Jim
they all went back to work unhappily as i read in sport aviation. still i
scares me to purchase a new lyc built by pissed off employees
still scarry
scott
winging it in Tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
Jon,
the NSTB, stated that it was an in flight break up, but i'm still waiting to
see what Mr. VAN has to say about it. I'm sure he will do a complete
investigation of his own. I would expect as soon as it settles down over
there he will inform us
sadly missing Mr. Morgan
scott reviere
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
Looking for good/new condition Sensenich fixed metal, or Hartzell c/s prop
for O-320 (7/16" bolt holes) RV-6. Please send all leads privately to my
e-mail address.
Thanks,
Rob (RV-6Q, waiting for warm canopy working weather and engine delivery).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
Jon,
Curious as to where on the lower wing skin you are mounting this inlet?
Any possibility you might pick up engine exhaust through this "fresh air
duct", or is it located far enough out on the wing to avoid exhaust flow?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>I am considering mounting the OAT probe in the NACA fresh air inlet on the
>lower wing skin on my RV-8, this should eliminate cabin/engine heat induced
>errors. The wires will have to be made longer, but RMI says no problem.
>
>Jon Ross RV-80094 Skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
Moe, & other listers
the NSTB can be found at ( faa.gov/avr/aai/iirform.htm )
if any one has address to other sites let me know
scott reviere
winging it in Tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake line locations |
Gary, I replaced all the brake lines inside the cockpit with stainless steel
braided brake hose from Earl's Performance Products. I did this after having one
of the plastic/nylon lines pull lose from a fitting - I may have installed it
poorly, but decided that the reliability of stainless steel line was worth the
cost and weight. I mean its one thing if you can't get started, its quite another
if you can't get stopped.
Ed Andeson RV-6A
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
Fesenbek, Gary wrote:
>
> Also, I have the dual brake option and don't feel too comforatable
> putting those plastic tube fittings in on the passenger side. Anyone
> have any thoughts on this one or even better actual field test feedback?
>
> Gary Fesenbek
> Roanoke, VA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instruments |
<< Is this 8 degree setting an adjustment or are the instruments manufactured
this way. The reason I am wondering is I already have mine and don't know
what they are set for. >>
The instrument must be disassembled to make the change. The manufacturer
should be consulted or a good gyro shop should be able to do the mod.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cherry Rivet application |
<< have made my first big opps! Building the elevator last night, I forgot to
rivet the control arm first and will be forced to use structural blind
rivets. >>
Did the same thing - Called Vans and they could not advise using the Cherrymax
in its place, the reason was they never did it, therefor could not reccomend
it.
I ran it by several A&P and they all agreed that the Cherrymax would work
fine.
So I used #4 Cherrymax - I purchased the Air Pop Rivet Tool from Avery the
Cherry Max Gauge and it was fixed in about 15 minutes.
Will it work ? I'm sure it will, however keep in mind a failure on this horn
can be rather fatal, I have since rebuilt both elevators, the one with the
Trim Tab did not come out the way I would have liked it too, so I built the
other for the hell of it.
The great part about building the RV is that if you screw up a part, its cheap
enough to buy the parts and do it again, the second time you are armed to the
teeth with the knowledge you gained the first time , lets face it most of us
never did this type of work and its a learning experience.
Good Luck
BSivori(at)AOL.COM
N929RV (Reserved)
Closing the Wings @LAST
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Cherry Rivet application |
There is a difference between a Cherry N rivet and a CherryMax rivet.
The CherryMax are supposed to be stronger and resist vibration better.
Cherry-Textron describes the Cherry N as a "Non-structural blind
breakstem rivet designed for a wide range of applications. Available in
a variety of materials and combinations with low profile, large flange
or countersunk head styles." I understand that the CherryMax is a
structural rivet. Check the website at www.advelcherrytextron.com.
much to my surprise, they no longer describe the CherryMax at that site
(or at least I couldn't find it!)
Steve Soule
Huntington Vermont
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 12:00 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cherry Rivet application
Check the archives. Someone else made this mistake not
too long ago. I
believe they were told not to use "pop" rivets here, and
it turned out they
only had to drill out a few solid rivets to get in there
and buck the horn.
Moe
robin.y.wessel(at)exgate.tek.com
>
>I have made my first big opps! Building the elevator
last night, I forgot
to
>rivet the control arm first and will be forced to use
structural blind
>rivets.
>
>Question: The archives mention that CherryMax
"Structural" rivets will be
an
>acceptable substitute for driven rivets. Do you need
the $200 plus Cherry
>brand Hydra Pullers or can I use my $15 Sears model to
install 12 rivets.
>
>Vans online catalog lists 5/32 Cherry "N" rivets as
structural, but Cherry
>lists them as non-structural. Is this the case were a
5/32 "N" rivet would
>substitute for 1/8 rivet in a structural application?
>
>
>Robin Wessel
>RV-6A Ann Arbor, MI
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
| Subject: | Cherry Rivet application |
I generally consider myself a moderate when it comes to use of pop
rivets and alternate fastners in building one of these things, but I
don't believe I would care to fly in one having pop rivets (Cherry,
structural or otherwise) in the elevator horn attachment. I would try
and open up the elevator skin and attach as designed. Just my
opinion... Good luck.
Bryan Jones
RV-8 80313, attaching empenage
Pearland, TX
>
> I have made my first big opps! Building the elevator last night, I
> forgot to
> rivet the control arm first and will be forced to use structural blind
> rivets.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Aid Wing Leveler Installation |
>
>Seriously considering retrofitting a NAV AID wing leveler into my RV-6A
>- flying. Can this unit be fitted under the seats and connected to the
>aileron push tubes, or must it be installed internally in the wing? The
>later would be very impractical in a completed plane, but just might be
>possible under the seats. Any experience out there?
John,
I think it might be easier to retro fit the Navaid servo under the
passenger seat as opposed to a wing installation, especially if the plane is
painted.
The original material that I got with my Navaid showed an under the
passenger seat installation. The push rod from the servo, which is mounted
to the belly, attached to the co-pilot stick. An idea that I like better
that was done by a fellow lister (GV?) was to use a longer push rod and
attach to the pilots control stick. This lessens the operating range or arc
that the push rod has to operate in thus making the location of the servo
less exacting. When using the short push rod, positioning of the servo is
critical. I had to make some cone shapped (tiny) spacers for each side of
the two push rod rod end bearings so I could get maximum travel. Otherwise,
at extreme positions, the rod ends would bottom out putting stress on the
tiny rod ends. The downside to mounting in the fuselage is that you will
have some new rivets on the belly. I would recommend that the servo be
mounted on a doubler of some kind to lessen flex as opposed to just being
mounted on the .032" belly skin.
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
a more direct address is
ntsb.gov
g. fesenbek
braking in Roanoke
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com [SMTP:ABAYMAN(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 1998 1:31 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 Crash
>
>
> Moe, & other listers
> the NSTB can be found at ( faa.gov/avr/aai/iirform.htm )
> if any one has address to other sites let me know
> scott reviere
> winging it in Tampa
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: General Question: Autogas in Lyc |
>
Keith,
All other things being equal, reduced octane number does not effect power
output of an engine provided the engine doesnt detonate on the lower octane
fuel. Higher octane fuel is insurance against detonation.
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> I'd like to hear some opinions on that. I'd also like to hear
>some opinions as to what happens to rated HP when running with the lower
>octane number - does it drop noticeably? That is my guess.
>
> Keith Jensen
> Pocatello, Idaho
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Shumway" <dshumway(at)casewaretech.com> |
Thanks for the update. I met with my Australian distributor who said he gets
items sent from Australia to Utah for $80 via Fed. Ex. Though he did not
know what the size restraints were. He also said that we could get items
shipped at a small fraction of the cost if we were to have them sent via
boat. (approx. 4-6 weeks) I am in no hurry even though I am already flying.
If the cost difference were worthwhile, I wouldn't mind the wait. I will be
very interested in the photos.
David Shumway
-----Original Message-----
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 9:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: jon's seats
>
>I received another e-mail from Jon concerning his seats. He
>said they are already upholstered. I asked for pictures of the
>seats and the colors so we could better determine which color
>would better match our planes or existing upholstery. I will
>pass it on when I hear back form him. There are 2 others besides
>myself who are interested in these seats. Jon said they could
>ship 4 to a box to cut down on the shipping (~350.00). Is anyone
>else interested. Michael.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacumm Instruments |
>I am ready to order my directional gyro and my artifical horizon.
>Do I need to special order these to account for the tilt of the
>instrument panel? Or can I use the standard ones? It doesn't
>seem that 6 to 8 degrees would be that big of a deal, but I'm
>no expert on the subject.
>
>I'm interested in hearing from the flying members of the list
>as to their experiences. Thanks.
>
>Randy Pflanzer RV-6
>
Randy,
The 8 deg tilt on the artificial horizon works perfectly in my RV-6A. When
trimmed in cruise, all lines line up as they should. It was well worth the
added two week wait to get the special order "8-deg" tilt in the gyro. BTW,
RC-Allen did not charge extra for this.
The D.G. does not need the tilt.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV -Flying (120 hrs since Sept and "Climbing")
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: bend in .063 angle |
>Actually Bob, it's quite precise if you joggle it by putting packing
>of the appropriate thickness on both sides and squeezing it up in a
>big vice. As always, practice on a piece of scrap.
>
>Peter Bennett
>Sydney Australia
>
Peter:
I was the one wilh .063 bending problem. After Bob's post I am planing on
the shim & splice method. Could you explain to me the technique your
usinf to bend it? the 2 f604 pcs are .063 each. So do I need two .125
pieces in the vise to joggle the angle? If I contour the two scrap pieces
with a .250 radius, are your saying I will end up with a .125 offset in
the joggle?
Thanks:
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cherry Rivet application |
robin.y.wessel(at)exgate.tek.com wrote:
>
>
> I have made my first big opps! Building the elevator last night, I forgot to
> rivet the control arm first and will be forced to use structural blind
> rivets.
>
Robin,
Don't feel bad, that's one of the many easy-to-make mistakes. I think
it's great that you have gone this far w/o a major mistake. Personally,
I would drill out the skin rivets around the horn and either reach in
with the squeezer or hand-buck them. If you have a deep squeezer yoke,
you may be able to do all riveting by just drilling out one side of the
elevator. I may be wrong, but to me, this is an area that I would want
all the strength I could get! It's hard to drill out perfectly good
rivets, but the peace of mind definately justifies it IMHO :^)
Good Luck
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< I cant say where all the BS came from about the
frayed wiring within the conduit in the fuel tanks >>
ANSWER - - POLITICS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Aid Wing Leveler Installation |
Bob Skinner wrote:
> Thank you for taking the trouble to give me some much appreciated advise re the
> NAVAID; it's a lot easier to stay out of trouble than to GET out of trouble!
> thank you.
John
>
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
In a message dated 5/29/98 10:22:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
billb(at)atheria.europa.com writes:
<< is >>
Bill--
How do you spray insulating foam in a cup?
Do you put the foam around the probe leaving what part exposed, or do you
insulate the NACA vent betwen the fusalage and vent?
Dave---
Please except our condolences from Akron, NY on John Morgan's unfortunate
accident. Our thoughts will be with him and his wife Salley and his passenger!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark(at)edt.com (Mark C. Mason) |
| Subject: | Re: General Question: Autogas in Lyc |
> All other things being equal, reduced octane number does not effect power
> output of an engine provided the engine doesnt detonate on the lower octane
> fuel. Higher octane fuel is insurance against detonation.
In the early 70s there were water injection systems to prevent
detonation in high compression engines when high octane fuel
was not available. A side effect was steam-cleaned combustion
chambers and valves.
Given the added complexity, is this a viable alternative to
high-octane fuel in aircraft engines?
Mark Mason
Portland/Hillsboro
RV-6 maybe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
RV4131rb(at)aol.com wrote:
> .........The 737 is one of the most
> reliable jetliners ever built......
Ryan Bendure Co
>
Does anyone remember the 737 that broke up over Hawaii (sp?) a few years
ago? The skins and structure pealed away behind the cockpit for several
feet, yet the plane kept flying and landed safely even though a
passenger or two were sucked out the top. Television footage showed the
plane coming in and the passengers were sitting there with the wind in
their faces. My impression at the time was that Boeing had designed a
pretty good airplane. My $0.025 worth :)
martin shorman
Lawton, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | Vacumm Instruments |
Something to bear in mind -- if a vacuum instrument just sits for 90 days,
the warranty is no longer valid. Apparently the lubrication drains away.
Therefore, do not order the vacuum instruments until you are ready to use
them.
John RV6A Flying, 150 hours
Newmarket Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>I am curious to know why a pilot
>with nearly 10,000 hours suddenly gets killed on a routine flight....
>Jon Elford
Jon,
An Excellent Question! Unfortunately we don't know the short answer. What
I do know is, the more we ask ourselves that question, the less likely it is
to happen.......
I met John recently at the Redwing Flyin. He seemed like a very
professional and thoughtful aviator. My thoughts are with his family and
his friends.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: General Question: Autogas in Lyc |
>In the early 70s there were water injection systems to prevent
>detonation in high compression engines when high octane fuel
>was not available. A side effect was steam-cleaned combustion
>chambers and valves.
>
In the late 40's on big round engines Water/Methonal Injection systems were
introduced on hi-output radials. This involved spraying large amouts of
water/methonal, called ADI fluid in the Intake system. This allowed running
much higher manifold pressures without detonation. If the ADI was not
available or not used then a reduced Manifold pressure setting would have to
be used for takeoff resulting in much less power available. In an RV it
would be much easier to use a lower power setting for take off, than fool
with the ADI fluid.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Aid Wing Leveler Installation |
<< An idea that I like better
that was done by a fellow lister (GV?) was to use a longer push rod and
attach to the pilots control stick.>>
Sorry, Bob. It wasn't me. I did it the standard way, attached to the co-
pilot's stick and it works well.
<>
I agree. These small rod ends will break if you look at them cross-eyed (I
broke both during installation and they sent me new ones). I sure would like
an alternative to these little guys. If the rod end attached to the servo arm
breaks in flight, the loose push rod could hang up on the seat ribs and foul
the stick. I need to give this failure mode some thought.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instruments |
<< Something to bear in mind -- if a vacuum instrument just sits for 90 days,
the warranty is no longer valid. Apparently the lubrication drains away.
Therefore, do not order the vacuum instruments until you are ready to use
them. >>
Just what we need, another thing to worry about.
-GV (running gyros that sat in the box for 2 yrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
John,
I am forwarding your request to the RV mail-list. No doubt you will get
some responses.
Listers, please send CC's of your replies directly to John:
jholtphx(at)syspac.com
I don't think he is on the list.
Thanks,
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
John Holt wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a kit or set of plans, for a sliding canopy for
> an rv-4. John Haehn has offered one in the past, but I can't
> seem to track him down. Any ideas?
>
> Blue Skies,
>
> John Holt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
With all this talk about octane ratings, water injection etc. I hope no one
is being misled into thinking that the danger with mogas is the octane
rating and effects on engine lifeand performance.
The danger with mogas is in the engine stopping or losing power when you
want it most. The biggest problem is the
reduced Ried's Vapour Pressure or more simply (correct me if I'm wrong)
Boiling temperature of mogas.
Their seems to be an almost universal misconception that the only problem
at high temperatures is "vapour lock".This being
interpreted to mean the fuel boils in the lines due to the reduced pressure
caused by the pump, thereby leading to fuel starvation ie.,an engine
failure due to SHORTAGE of fuel . It then seems to follow that a gravity
feed system won't have problems due to the higher volatility because it
does'nt suck the fuel.
I'm sure this thinking has led to many accidents. I know of at least two.
The problem that I have never seen in print, is the engine failure due to
EXCESS fuel caused by the use of mogas.
The temperatures in the engine compartment can get very high and the
carburator is not isolated from this. Normally the fuel coming through is
cool enough that it cools the carby and there is no problem. However if
the airplane sits in the sun all day, the fuel gets nice and hot, you do a
few circuits, taxi in, change passengers and take off !!!! Maximum power,
reduced pressure in the carby bowl, bowl in hot engine compartment,
reduced boiling point due to mogas. What's next? Fuel BOILS IN THE CARBY,
carby float is now heavier than the bubbling fuel and sinks to the bottom.
Unrestricted fuel flows to the engine through the bowl vent which is in the
carby throat the engine now losses power due to EXCESS fuel. You would
need to be a brave and quick thinking person to pull the mixture and or
restrict the fuel flow with the shut off valve, but that is what is
required, and fast !
I have seen a Cessna on a very hot day, which would run fine below 3500
feet, but could'nt climb above that due to the mogas boiling. And another
which could not climb after takeoff. ( black smoke puffing from exhaust )
All your training now tells you to "richen mixture,fuel pump on" which only
makes the problem worse
Try putting a block of wood ( which just floats ) in water and watch what
happens when the water boils.
I have used quite a lot of mogas, and in winter it may be fine, but be very
wary if you intend to use it for take off and landing in summer or it might
work out more expensive than avggas.
This is longer than intended but if it saves someone some angst it is worth
it. Happy flying, Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | 6A tail tie down |
Can someone tell me which drawing has the info on mounting the tail tie
down weldment for the 6A? I couldn't find anything on mounting or
positioning in Charlie's plans. I assume that it is installed with
nutplates so it can be easliy replaced if damaged due to over rotation, etc.
Thanks,
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
<< For RV-6, where is a good place for RMI OAT probe? I would thing in
a dead air area to minimize temp rise from friction. I know at our speeds
it is not much of a factor, but it would amount a small amount.
A Good Day to you!
Denny
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR >>
Hi Denny,
I have the RMI micromonitor in my -6A, and I installed the OAT sensor in the
right naca inlet, just like a lot of other people. It reads accurate on the
ground, but in flight, it reads high, just like a lot of other people's! I
tried making a seal at the aft edge of the top cowl with clear RTV, but I
suspect the cowl is flexing out a little in flight, allowing hot air to leak
out, and it's getting sucked in the naca vent. Even at 12,500' when the OAT
should be around 8-10 degrees C, it will still read 23 - 25C. And on mine, the
air coming in the right vent is warmer than the air coming in the left vent.
I'm going to relocate my probe down to the aft end of the lower wing root
fairing. I'm just not sure when! I'm having too much fun flying!
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Broken Arrow, Ok
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Listers,
I publicly apologize for any offense generated by my inquiry into the RV8
crash. I know this is a difficult and trying time, but was only curious if
anyone had heard anything. I deeply respect Van's integrity and
truthfulness and have no doubts as to whether we will be told the
bottom-line as far as this issue goes. Please, if I offended you, I'm sorry.
Regards,
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wing skeletons....
Almost ready to jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: General Question: Autogas in Lyc |
>
> I was in Edmonton, Canada (Villeneuve) last week, and got a
>chance to fly a rental (C-172) with an instructor in the local area.
>When checking the sumps, lo and behold the gas was yellow! When I
>asked, he said they run on Autogas mostly. He indicated that they will
>run three or four tanks of Autogas, and then fill it up with a tank of
>100LL, the idea being that the engine is o.k. when fed only an
>occasional dose of leaded fuel to keep the valves and stuff happy.
>
> I'd like to hear some opinions on that. I'd also like to hear
>some opinions as to what happens to rated HP when running with the lower
>octane number - does it drop noticeably? That is my guess.
> Keith Jensen
Does the power go *UP* as you increase your fuel's octane with no other
changes?
NO. The octane is the measure of resistance to ignition from heat and
pressure. If the engine (C-172, must have been O-300 Cont. on a really old
one, or a O-320 Lycoming on a newer one) was designed to use "80/87" Octane
avgas then 87+ Octane auto fuel has been shown to be adequate. (The O-320
H2AD is a high compression engine and needs more than "80 Octane" fuel to
run correctly.) Since we used to have "91-96 Octane" avgas back 30+ years
ago there are quite a few engines which can run 91-93 Octane car gas with
no ill effects.
Some have speculated that auto fuel may have more heat energy / gallon than
Avgas, and so might provide more HP. I can't confirm this, but the true
issue of "rated horsepower" is purely a function of the energy of the fuel
and its resistance to detonation. Thus if you use "premium" in your car
which was designed for 87 octane you can't see any performance increase.
(Much to the chargrin of the high school crowd who buy "hi-test" with the
idea of gettting a few more ponies out of the old man's Chevy.)
The only way to liberate more power from higher octane fuel is to increase
the compression ratio (actually the BMEP for you purists) and this can not
be done without taking wrenches to the engine. Thus as long as the fuel
used has adequate resistance to detonation, no power is lost (or gained) by
just changing the octane of the fuel.
The occasional use of 100LL with mostly unleaded car gas will certainly not
hurt the engine. Most who have the autofuel STC and do any serious X-C
work in their planes find that usually you have autofuel at home and 100LL
on the road. There are a few places which have (and advertise) autofuel,
but the 100LL only FBOs out number those who will sell autofuel many times
over.
I have felt that until we have materials which are intended from the
factory to use unleaded, that the odd dose of 100LL probably *HELPS*
provide some lubrication to the valve seats and stems.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Aid Wing Leveler Installation |
<< Seriously considering retrofitting a NAV AID wing leveler into my RV-6A
- flying. Can this unit be fitted under the seats and connected to the
aileron push tubes, or must it be installed internally in the wing? The
later would be very impractical in a completed plane, but just might be
possible under the seats. Any experience out there? >>
Lots. It fits fine under the pax seat. The RV-6 instructions they provided
worked swell, no axis cross coupling at all. I wouldn't be without it on a
long x-country. GPS tracking is great.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
It needs to be if you are going to do any short field flapless landings,
stalling it on is almost certain to touch the tie down ring before the
mains and the ring won't like it ! Brian
----------
> From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: 6A tail tie down
> Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 12:42 PM
>
>
> Can someone tell me which drawing has the info on mounting the tail tie
> down weldment for the 6A? I couldn't find anything on mounting or
> positioning in Charlie's plans. I assume that it is installed with
> nutplates so it can be easliy replaced if damaged due to over rotation,
etc.
> Thanks,
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
I designed my own tie down, that can not be bent over or hook onto
anything. Its simple.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, California
>
>It needs to be if you are going to do any short field flapless
>landings,
>stalling it on is almost certain to touch the tie down ring before the
>mains and the ring won't like it ! Brian
>
>----------
>> From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: 6A tail tie down
>> Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 12:42 PM
>>
>>
>> Can someone tell me which drawing has the info on mounting the
>tail tie
>> down weldment for the 6A? I couldn't find anything on mounting or
>> positioning in Charlie's plans. I assume that it is installed with
>> nutplates so it can be easliy replaced if damaged due to over
>rotation,
>etc.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
Jon I really don't think you have offended anyone. We are all waiting to
get word about what happened. In the mean time we want to here
something. I really suspect the airplane may have got a workout more
than what it was capable of. I wouldn't say that publicly on the list
because I may be 180 degrees out. I'll just have to wait and see like
every one else.
Best wishes, Phil Sisson at Litchfield, Ill. RV6 getting ready to
start jigging the fuselage.
Jon Elford wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> I publicly apologize for any offense generated by my inquiry into the
> RV8
> crash. I know this is a difficult and trying time, but was only
> curious if
> anyone had heard anything. I deeply respect Van's integrity and
> truthfulness and have no doubts as to whether we will be told the
> bottom-line as far as this issue goes. Please, if I offended you, I'm
> sorry.
>
> Regards,
> Jon Elford
> RV6 #25201
> Banks, OR
> Wing skeletons....
> Almost ready to jig.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cherry Rivet application |
I made the same mistake on one of the elevators for my RV8 and I just
drilled out the rivets (about 12-15) so that I could get the hand squeezer
in there to squeeze the rivets on the horn. It is not that difficult and
the result looks great. I feel a lot more confident about the structural
integrity this way than using cherry rivets on such an important component.
Gary
RV8 80352, tail complete awaiting QB kit
Carlsbad, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Date: Friday, May 29, 1998 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cherry Rivet application
>
>Check the archives. Someone else made this mistake not too long ago. I
>believe they were told not to use "pop" rivets here, and it turned out they
>only had to drill out a few solid rivets to get in there and buck the horn.
>
>Moe
>
>
>>
>>I have made my first big opps! Building the elevator last night, I forgot
>to
>>rivet the control arm first and will be forced to use structural blind
>>rivets.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-8 N801RV Photos |
If interested, I have added photos of my completed RV-8 to my web site. FAA
inspection is scheduled for this week.
http://members.aol.com/lousmith/rv.html
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
80126
Rocky Mount, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: General Question: Autogas in Lyc |
When using auto fuel in aircraft, remember the octane rating of auto and
aviation fuels are calculated by different methods. The auto fuel rating
must be lowered by approximately 4-6 to arrive at the aviation fuel rating
(ie 86 octane auto fuel is about equivalent in octane to 80 octane aviation
fuel.
As a little background, I worked for the EAA Aviation Foundation at the
Kermit Weeks Flight Research Center (Oshkosh) on the auto fuel program. The
EAA auto fuel STC and information should explain this difference in octane
ratings and provides a quick and easy method to test for alcohol in the
fuel.
FLY-IN-HOME(at)worldnet.att.net
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: General Question: Autogas in Lyc
>
>> I was in Edmonton, Canada (Villeneuve) last week, and got a
>>chance to fly a rental (C-172) with an instructor in the local area.
>>When checking the sumps, lo and behold the gas was yellow! When I
>>asked, he said they run on Autogas mostly. He indicated that they will
>>run three or four tanks of Autogas, and then fill it up with a tank of
>>100LL, the idea being that the engine is o.k. when fed only an
>>occasional dose of leaded fuel to keep the valves and stuff happy.
>>
>> I'd like to hear some opinions on that. I'd also like to hear
>>some opinions as to what happens to rated HP when running with the lower
>>octane number - does it drop noticeably? That is my guess.
>> Keith Jensen
>
>Does the power go *UP* as you increase your fuel's octane with no other
>changes?
>
>NO. The octane is the measure of resistance to ignition from heat and
>pressure. If the engine (C-172, must have been O-300 Cont. on a really old
>one, or a O-320 Lycoming on a newer one) was designed to use "80/87" Octane
>avgas then 87+ Octane auto fuel has been shown to be adequate. (The O-320
>H2AD is a high compression engine and needs more than "80 Octane" fuel to
>run correctly.) Since we used to have "91-96 Octane" avgas back 30+ years
>ago there are quite a few engines which can run 91-93 Octane car gas with
>no ill effects.
>
>Some have speculated that auto fuel may have more heat energy / gallon than
>Avgas, and so might provide more HP. I can't confirm this, but the true
>issue of "rated horsepower" is purely a function of the energy of the fuel
>and its resistance to detonation. Thus if you use "premium" in your car
>which was designed for 87 octane you can't see any performance increase.
>(Much to the chargrin of the high school crowd who buy "hi-test" with the
>idea of gettting a few more ponies out of the old man's Chevy.)
>
>The only way to liberate more power from higher octane fuel is to increase
>the compression ratio (actually the BMEP for you purists) and this can not
>be done without taking wrenches to the engine. Thus as long as the fuel
>used has adequate resistance to detonation, no power is lost (or gained) by
>just changing the octane of the fuel.
>
>The occasional use of 100LL with mostly unleaded car gas will certainly not
>hurt the engine. Most who have the autofuel STC and do any serious X-C
>work in their planes find that usually you have autofuel at home and 100LL
>on the road. There are a few places which have (and advertise) autofuel,
>but the 100LL only FBOs out number those who will sell autofuel many times
>over.
>
>I have felt that until we have materials which are intended from the
>factory to use unleaded, that the odd dose of 100LL probably *HELPS*
>provide some lubrication to the valve seats and stems.
>
>
>Bob Steward, A&P IA
>AA-1B N8978L
>AA-5A N1976L
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
> The danger with mogas is in the engine stopping or losing power when you
>want it most. The biggest problem is the
>reduced Ried's Vapour Pressure or more simply (correct me if I'm wrong)
>Boiling temperature of mogas.
Brian, I think you have this backwards. The lower the vapor pressure or
RVP the less vapors or emissions it will give off. Autogas normally has a
higher or increased RVP than Avgas.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
Phoenix, AZ
rv-6a psyching myself to prime both fuel tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Smith <kpsmith(at)ais.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 In-flight Breakup |
Folks:
I was brousing and stumbled on this. Using search engines, I could find
nothing more. I have not been on the list for some time and am waiting
for Majordomo to kick back in, so would appreciate a direct copy of any
replies. Thanks.
Ken Smith, Jr. kpsmith(at)ais.net
**** 05/27/98 Preliminary Accident/Incident Data Record RECORD 1
****
A. Type: Accident Mid Air:N Missing:N Entry date: 05/26/98
From: WESTERN PACIFIC REGION OPERATIONS CENTER
B. Reg.No.: 58RV M/M: EXP Desc: EXP: VANS RV-8
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Unknown GA-A/C: General Aviation
Descr: ACFT CRASHED DUE TO IN-FLIGHT BREAK UP, THE 2 POB SUFFERED FATAL
INJURIES, THE ACFT WAS DESTROYED, RIPLEY, CA.
WX: METAR KBLH 241350Z 00000KT 40SM SKC 20/09 A2988 Damage: Destroyed
C2. Injury Data: # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Pass: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0
Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0
UNK:
D. Location City: RIPLEY State: CA
E. Occ Date: 05/24/98 Time: 14:00
F. Invest Coverage. IIC: KAPPA Reg/DO: WP21 DO CTY: RIVERSIDE
DO State: CA Others: NTSB (CRISPIN)
G. Flt Handling. Dep Pt: UNKN Dep Date: / / Time:
Dest: UNKN Last Radio Cont: UNKN Flt Plan: UNK
Last Clearance: UNKN WX Briefing:
Other:
AAI IIC:
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does anyone
have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip?
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
From: Department of Encouragement
Re: She is going to LOVE your new airplane
There are several reasons we build. No, wait. There MANY reasons we build.
Every construction crew has it's own many and varied reasons. Some of mine
were to have a REALLY cool looking airplane that went fast and went slow,
that you could go up of a Tuesday morning and feel a tight G turn pull on
your face, land at an unimproved strip in Idaho without much worry, attract
a crowd at the pumps. And one you could travel in.
Travel in. We went on our first RV cross-country last week and had a BLAST!
We had some friends that were going to Arizona and wanted us to meet them
there. They would be going in the conventional way, for the week, and, as we
only had three days off, the only way we could be there was to fly. In the
RV. (YES!!!!) And it was all Kelli's idea.
OK, now, I must admit, I was a little apprehensive: this would be our first
RV cross-country and from Denver, there are some hills to climb before
desert appears in the canopy. I was thinking, maybe we should go somewhere
not so far away for a first trip, maybe. Flatter, maybe, just as a test. But
this trip would be a great one and to a place we had never been. And why not?
What an opportunity. We packed light and were ready to go Sunday night. This
would be the biggest load the airplane had carried. And over a few hills,
did I mention? Monday was good weather but with 35+ knot winds in the
mountains. Driving a Model T over a plowed field would not be a good
introduction to cross-country. The wind was above my personal limits for
mountain winds anyway. We stayed home. I worked on the airplane. (What? You
mean it isn't done yet?)
Tuesday was Weather Fantastic and we had an early morning departure. The
airplane flew like it ever did, even with the weight (WELL within the weight
and balance limits). Trim was not much more forward than passenger-usual.
Climbed a little slower, but have you seen the Cessnas climb, loaded for
vacation?
The first pass through the Rocky Mountains was less than an hour from home:
the first real test, real soon. Now, I am a talker. I like to talk my
passenger through anything that may not be familiar and slipping through a
mountain pass with snow-covered 14,000+ foot peaks on either side needed a
little chat. "OK, we will get a little up air here.....well, here, ah, there
it is. Now we will get in a little downdraft here and, now, maybe a little
bump about here. We are going at this pass at a 45 degree angle so we
have a way out if we hit some down air. We would turn off to the left, over
there. See the other side of the pass? No problem with this one. Might be a
little bit of a ride through here." The view of the Rocky Mountains from the
lofty perch of the -4 was out of this world.
We slipped through at 13,500 (for a brief period) without a hitch. Wasn't
even that bumpy and the up/down did exactly what we expected. And what an
airplane: there we were at 13,500 feet, near but not at gross and still had
a bunch of climb left. The next pass was lower, but by then we were old
hands at slipping through mountain passes. I have a lot of mountain time in
the Cub; this airplane is going to be different. I still give The Rocks a
lot of respect. Did I mention the view?
OK, I don't care for towers. I mean airport control towers. No reason,
really, just cuz. They make me nervous, like a cop car following you. Most
of the cross-country I do in the Cub is done without their "permission to
land". Farmington, New Mexico has a tower. "Farmingtown tower, 232 Suzie Q,
five miles east with Juliet, landing Farmington." Nothing. Talking to other
folks, not me. "....232 Suzie Q four miles east..." Nothing. Oh, great.
Could they not hear me? I've never had problems before. Maybe....oh, OK, I
can play. "...232 Serria Quebec, four east..." Now they hear me. First time
I have had problems with using Suzie Q as a call sign. Sticks-in-the-mud.
Maybe they were just busy. Maybe. I hope. Didn't sound like it. They had no
problem with me outbound, Sierra Quebec-ing all the way. Don't like towers.
I am not supposed to tell where we landed in Arizona because Kelli wants it
to be a secret. I will tell you the scenery is beyond description and you
have to land on an aircraft carrier. Sort of. Our friends were waiting for
us at the airport and just couldn't get over the fact we had left Denver at
6 am and were in Arizona at 9 in the morning (time change). It had taken
them two days to get there. They were also pretty excited about us dropping
out of the sky in the airplane we built ourselves ("You looked SO COOL
coming in!!"). Lots of great photos.
I need to tell a story on Kelli. She was in the back seat absolutely
enthralled with it all, taking photos like Ansel Adams' niece and amazed
with the visiblity and where we were. We were getting into some light rain
and flying below an arch in the clouds, bumping along and I'm watching,
throttling back to protect the prop, looking at the clouds, getting kind of
dark and !!FLASH!!OHMANLIGHTNING!WASTHATLIGHTNING?WHEREWASTHAT?I DID'T SEE
ANY BEFORE THAT and I hear over the intercom michael that was the flash the
flash on the camera went off and I'm sorry I did't think it would I'm sorry.
Hey, I'll take the flash any day! No problem. Flash, yes; lightening, no.
REALLY looked like lightning.
MAN, was there a lot of smoke/smog from the Mexican fires on the way back.
Visibility was about 10 miles max. Pretty unusual for this part of the country.
This airplane has such grand visibility, it was disappointing not be able to
use it.
Going: just under four hours, about 140-160 knots, GPS. Coming back: just
over three hours about 180-210 knots. Love those westerly winds, going with
them. We left Tuesday, came back the next day and it was like being gone a week.
What an airplane. Goes fast, goes slow, travels. Travels well. And Kelli had
a ball. She is a great Back Seat Girl. (PIB: Princess In Back). When we got
back to town, she hit the bookstore and bought a sack full of travel books.
We are making a list. Did I mention what a great PIB I have?
Did I mention you are going to love this airplane? Did I mention SHE is
going to love this airplane?
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q (except in Farmington)
Greatly Expanding the Boundaries
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Yes ... I helped repair a RV6A that suffered this.
The tie down ring did bend upwards, but could be essentially
straightened. Since it's stainless, it deforms fairly easily.
It was adifferent story at the rudder FG lower fairing though. The
fairing was scraped and damaged, but it ends up the the FG fairing is
stronger than the 0.016 alum. skin of the rudder. This caused the upward
loads of impact to buckle the aft edge of the rudder a few inches above the
lower fairing.
Structurally, the damage was not bad, and the plane flew for a while
like that, however the fix was to construct a new rudder. Someone else
built the rudder, I just got the upper fairing glass work to match the
exising vert. stab. (added about 3/16 to the top), painted it and fitted
it. The old tie down ring was re-used.
On the other thread... I fabricated a 0.032 plate that sits on the
inside of the rear most bulkhead. All of the bolts that pass through this
bulkhead to hold on the vert. stab. spar and tie down fit into floating
nutplates. This _will_ make final installation of the vert. stab. _much_
easier. If you don't do this, then you have to work through the small side
access hole to tighten these bolts. this plate can be installed through
the 5 inch hole in the F-614 and passed aft to the rear bulkhead loaction.
... hope this helps ... Gil (I helped fix one) Alexander
>
>It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does
anyone
>have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip?
>
>Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla.
RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
"REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
Newsletter Editors: Permission given to re-print if
credit is given and a courtesy copy is sent to me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com |
Ditto X 10
Dave Funk
Building elevators RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I have had problems from the start with my normally aspirated O-320
quitting when the G load dropped below 1. At SNF I bought a Stromberg
pressure carb. It appears to have the rebuilt red diaphram. Does anyone
have experience in testing and installing one of these? They originally
fit the O-360 and some continental 470's I believe. kevin 6A 160 hrs!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "E. Coli" <timf(at)ushandball.org> |
With all the talk about aircraft vs auto engines (and fuel) reliability
etc, I have an somewhat related (I hope) question...
How well does an RV glide??
Tim Friendshuh
St Paul MN
(considering an RV8)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | 6A tail tie down |
info on mounting the tail tie down weldment for the 6A?
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
Bob:
My "old" instructions have numbers in SK 62 & ref Drg 34. Drwg 34 shows
only a 6. My new plans are at home.
You splice on the .063 angle worked great.!!!
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
My experience is that the tie down ring will hit first.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does
anyone
>have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip?
>
>Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
> I touched the tail of Van's red RV-6B and bent it a bit, and also did the same
> once on my RV-6A. The ring bent a bit, and I replaced it. I would not use nut
> plates; not strong enough. Use bolts per plans. You need a long wrench and some
> choice words to reach the nuts (remove the fairing) but it can be done. An
> inspection mirror and flashlight help.
The best solution I found was just to learn to land the darn thing properly! (It
took a while for me!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McLaughlJR(at)aol.com |
<>
I believe that Van has shown it to be 10 to 1.
Joel Mclaughlin
-6 Wings
NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tUnd(at)webtv.net (Tim Underwood) |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
wankers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tUnd(at)webtv.net (Tim Underwood) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
youll never fly friction man
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tUnd(at)webtv.net (Tim Underwood) |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
The best thing about mogas is the excellent quality control, no go fly
that night xc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tUnd(at)webtv.net (Tim Underwood) |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum Instruments |
rvs are really comfortable in instrument conditions
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tUnd(at)webtv.net (Tim Underwood) |
| Subject: | Re: General Question: Autogas in Lyc |
lets add more systems to something simple
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
-----Original Message-----
From: Kerrjb(at)aol.com <Kerrjb(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A tail tie down
>
>It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does
anyone
>have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip?
>
>Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla.
>
There is a 6A from Kansas that is at OSH every year with triangular gusseted
plate on the tail for a combination tiedown and tail skid. It is about a
foot long and looks like a 30/60 triangle with perpendicular short leg of
about 6 inches. The builder put it on after an over rotation episode.
I have been seriously considering such a modification since it is clear that
the 6 has excessive elevator authority in take off and landing. After 2200
hours of yoke-in-lap landings in my C-172 ( I do not fly it on!) I'm
concerned I'm going to prang my 6A!
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
Has anyone experienced aileron flutter while doing a roll in an RV6A.
Is Aileron flutter in the 6A during rolls common?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Mills <tmills(at)powerup.com.au> |
| Subject: | Avgas in General |
Hello
I have a friend who runs mogas in his Tailwind, he recently had quite a
scare when his little 100 horse monster just stopped at 50ft AGL on take off.
After draining the tank and lines he made it safely home with samples of the offending
fuel in the baggage. He asked me to have look at the fuel as he had not
seen anything like it before, When we poured the fuel into a small bucket it
looked a bit cloudy however when we blew on top of the sample it became very
cloudy.
After some more technical testing was completed we found that the gentleman at
the local gas stop had more than a little bit of water in one of his tanks, so
he just put some alcohol in to get rid of it.
My point is, There are many reasons why I worry about the use of mogas in aircraft,
most have been discussed already R.V.P. (F.V.I. index) would be the main
one. However nobody has said anything about quality control, this is one of the
reason why avgas is more expensive than mogas, the guy at the local pump mite
not have tampered with the fuel he was selling if he knew where it was going.
(And understood the gravity of it)
Yes, I know lots of aircraft run on mogas very well, But just beware! you really
do get what you pay for.
Trevor Mills
RV 80605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
<< I publicly apologize for any offense generated by my inquiry into the RV8
crash. I know this is a difficult and trying time, but was only curious if
anyone had heard anything. I deeply respect Van's integrity and
truthfulness and have no doubts as to whether we will be told the
bottom-line as far as this issue goes. Please, if I offended you, I'm sorry.
Regards,
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wing skeletons....
Almost ready to jig. >>
Jon,
I think this time its not you who owes the public appology but me. My
attack on you wasnt nice or fair. I met John Morgan last year at the
Burlington Co. flyin and we all sat around a room one night having a few beers
and swapping flying stories. I thought he was a top notch guy. I have lost
several friends in RVs for one reason or another and I cant help but get angry
when people speculate what happened with no solid information to work with. My
comment about Phil Hartman was a good example of what happens when people
specutlate or believe rummors. At the time I wrote the post they had said he
shot himself. The next morning it changed to his wife doing the killing. But
who really knows at this point. At any rate Jon you have my personal appology.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
<< Jon,
Curious as to where on the lower wing skin you are mounting this inlet?
Any possibility you might pick up engine exhaust through this "fresh air
duct", or is it located far enough out on the wing to avoid exhaust flow?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil >>
Mike:
The RV-8 drawings now show the rear seat fresh air NACA inlet installed in the
lower right wing just ouside the wingwalk area doubler ... that is, the next
bay out. Most builders are simply using pro-seal to attach the inlet to the
skin. It's a bit more difficult to do if your wing is complete, but it can be
done. I'm quite sure that this will avoid exaust flow and engine cooling exit
air, offering accurate OAT readings.
Jon Ross RV-80094 - Skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
cecilth(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
>
> I designed my own tie down, that can not be bent over or hook onto
> anything. Its simple.
>
> Cecil Hatfield
> Thousand Oaks, California
>
Hey Cecil ole buddy ole pal, would you share your design with us????
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Gee, why is it that I get the idea that the RV-6A bangs it's tail a lot? Is
this true or am I detecting some bad landings caused by some
overzealous handling (showing off)? Since I've never banged the tail
of my airplanes during landings, I'm wondering if there is something
about the -6A that makes this an easier happening. Showing off does
not count, fellas. :-)
I have installed the Orndorff tie down ring. I hope this will tie down the
airplane OK. I'm hoping I can keep the tail off the ground during my
landings, even if I do show off a bit.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Working on canopy)
AA-5A N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
<< Fuel BOILS IN THE CARBY,
carby float is now heavier than the bubbling fuel and sinks to the bottom. >>
Elimination of the CARBY seems to be the logical way to handle this situation.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kerrjb(at)aol.com <Kerrjb(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 10:54 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A tail tie down
>
> >
> >It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does
> anyone
> >have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip?
> >
> >Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla.
> >
> There is a 6A from Kansas that is at OSH every year with triangular gusseted
> plate on the tail for a combination tiedown and tail skid. It is about a
> foot long and looks like a 30/60 triangle with perpendicular short leg of
> about 6 inches. The builder put it on after an over rotation episode.
> I have been seriously considering such a modification since it is clear that
> the 6 has excessive elevator authority in take off and landing. After 2200
> hours of yoke-in-lap landings in my C-172 ( I do not fly it on!) I'm
> concerned I'm going to prang my 6A!
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
> Barrington, IL
>
Dennis, We commonly do very full stall landings in the RV6A and there is
really no reason to drag the tail. This is normally caused by over
controlling which is very easy to avoid.The same goes for soft field
type takeoffs. Many students drug the tail in cessna 150s too but that
certainly is not neccesary.
Michael Seager CFI I do the pilot check out in the RV6 and RV6A For Vans
rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com
503 429 5103
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Inspection Protocol |
Listers,
The pink panther is due for her annual physical. My A&P wondered if anyone
had an inspection protocol for a -4.
Send it directly to me at the address below if you wish to save bandwidth.
Thanks in advance.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com (my old netins.net is no longer valid)
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Flutter |
>
>Has anyone experienced aileron flutter while doing a roll in an RV6A.
>Is Aileron flutter in the 6A during rolls common?
>
Michael,
What you are experiencing is not flutter. If it was, most likely you
wouldn't be telling about it. What is however, common in RV's, is a little
buffet in the ailerons at full deflection. This is caused by some stalling
of the aileron. It should only occur at full or nearly full deflection and
at fairly high speeds. If this is what you are experiencing, worry not, it
is normal.
If you find this annoying there is a solution, The Extra 300L for about
$300,000 does not do that at all...... or just back off on the aileron
deflection slightly.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>How well does an RV glide??
>
>
>Tim Friendshuh
>St Paul MN
>(considering an RV8)
Tim,
The short answer is better than almost anything that was built in wichita or
florida. The long answer would depend on your airplane.
If you search the archives you will find a thread about glide ratio vs
propellor type. The point is the glide ratio of the RV depends greatly on
the type and pitch of propellor installed. I apoligize that I don't have the
exact name of the thread it was some time ago and I don't have the name of
it.
Tailwinds from MCW,
Doug Rozendaal, -4 the pink panther
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carol Knight <cknight(at)rmci.net> |
| Subject: | RV Upholstery Products/Seats |
RV Builders
I have been in the upholstery business for 26 years and have been making
upholstery products for kitplanes for 14 years. I have interior kits
available for RV-4, RV-6, RV-6a, and RV-8. I also have cabin covers and
other items. I am the supplier of upholstery products for several kitplane
manufacturers. A list of other kitplane interior products available upon
request.
For more information, call Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc., at (208)
342-2602 or e-mail me at cknight(at)rmci.net. Photos available upon request.
Sincerely,
KNIGHT AIRCRAFT INTERIORS, INC.
"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
Sam Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
> Can someone tell me which drawing has the info on mounting the tail tie
> down weldment for the 6A? I couldn't find anything on mounting or
> positioning in Charlie's plans. I assume that it is installed with
> nutplates so it can be easliy replaced if damaged due to over rotation,
etc.
If I remember correctly, it doesn't show anywhere on the plans. There is a
small detail sheet on one of the "SK" drawings in the construction manual.
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@bigskytel.com - http://bigskytel.com/~ebundy/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
>I am not supposed to tell where we landed in Arizona because Kelli wants it
>to be a secret. I will tell you the scenery is beyond description and you
>have to land on an aircraft carrier. Sort of.
Ah, that's easy. You landed on the USS Sedona ;-)
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Fellow listers:
Wednesday, after an all-day inspection with no squawks (except that my whiskey
compass deflects a bit as the joystick is swung around - got to degauss that
thing!), the FAA man said N30YD was an airplane. Two days later, after high
speed taxi tests, brakes groaning on one side (perhaps another case of bogus
springs? I haven't looked yet...) and with my friend flying parallel to the
7000 ft runway in his Maule, I opened the throttle and off we (the plane and
I) went. No unexpected moves, no bad manners. She flew like she had been
waiting 4 years for this moment, and indeed she had. Well, 3 yrs, 11 months
and 29 days, but who's counting?! Sometime during the 45 minute first flight,
which included the traditional climbs, descents, slow flight, stalls, and
gentle turns, but nothing over 135 mph indicated,my nemesis in the Maule said,
"Hey, I'm keeping up with you!"
"Enjoy it!" was my reply, as I realized that for the first time,
the RV grin was about to overspread my face.
"Yeah," he radioed back. "Guess it won't last long..."
Well, enough of that. I just want to add my voice of encouragement to those
who are still banging rivets as I was just a few weeks ago. They are all
correct when "they" say, "Keep building, it's worth it!"
Remember, the usual congratulatory messages should be sent to me, not to the
list. The archives are already too full of that sort of thing... Thanks.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
Clifton Forge, VA
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Jim,
To the best of my knowledge, I never caused the tie down ring to hit by
over- controlling during flight. What did happen was that I taxied a little
too fast over a bump at the edge of the tarmac when parking at a fly-in.
The nose bounced up causing the tail to come down hard enough to bend the
tie down ring back and also bend the tail cone skin a bit where it extended
beyond the F-612 flange. I would say that you would have to be
intentionally hot-dogging quite a bit or else be pretty heavy handed to
accidentally over-rotate enough to drag the tail. I've seen it done more
than once by some pilots that I would put in the latter category. Having a
light engine/prop combination up front like I did could contribute to this
being easier to do, but an average pilot such as myself should not have any
difficulty with this IMO.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Gee, why is it that I get the idea that the RV-6A bangs it's tail a lot?
Is
>this true or am I detecting some bad landings caused by some
>overzealous handling (showing off)? Since I've never banged the tail
>of my airplanes during landings, I'm wondering if there is something
>about the -6A that makes this an easier happening. Showing off does
>not count, fellas. :-)
>
>I have installed the Orndorff tie down ring. I hope this will tie down the
>airplane OK. I'm hoping I can keep the tail off the ground during my
>landings, even if I do show off a bit.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS (Working on canopy)
>AA-5A N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)mci2000.com> |
A week or so ago, someone was commenting on how many of the little aft hold
down blocks they went through, trying to get them drilled properly. I
suspect the lack of adjustability has something to do with it.
If one shims below the U shaped aluminum cradle before drilling the hole
for the canopy pins, then adding/subtracting the shims will allow for
vertical adjustment. Similarly, if one makes the plastic block narrower
than the aluminum, the lateral position can be shimmed by moving the
plastic within the U.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nav Aid Wing Leveler Installation |
> Seriously considering retrofitting a NAV AID wing leveler into my RV-6A
> - flying. Can this unit be fitted under the seats and connected to the
> aileron push tubes, or must it be installed internally in the wing?
mine just barely fit under the seat. by bending the push tube I was able
to get the free play needed at all stick positions. Cut the sides off the
cover so that you can remove the cover without removing the entire unit.
kevin 6A 160hrs since Oct!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
<< It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does
anyone
have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip? >>
The ring hits first.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Fellow RVers,
I didn't mean to open a can of worms (or start a thread similar to
primer). I don't know how easy it is to hit the tail tie down on a RV6A. I
have seen several with bent rings which started me thinking on ways to deal
with the problem before it occurs. If the tie down ring is attached with
nutplate, removing the rudder would enable one to easily replace Van's
weldment. I would hope that the ring would protect the rudder bottom but
I'm not sure that this is the case.
I've been thinking along the lines of a tie down/skid similar to the
Cherokees, a streamlined skid with a hole in it for tie down rope. A piece
of 1/4" plate could be sandwiched between two angles so if the plate were
damaged it could be easily replaced. The curvature of the tail cone makes
mounting the angles a little tricky but I think it can be done. I was
thinking of riveting to the skin and spanning the two bulkheads and tying
into them, as well.
I know the guy that I'm helping, "Gillette Charlie", is going to fly with
Mike Seager. In fact, I think he may have already flown with Mike at a
Longmont fly in a year or two ago. I know Charlie hit the skid when he
rotated for take off and whoever he was flying with indicated that tail-hits
happen sometimes. I imagine that by the time Mike gets done with Charlie
that his tail bump days will be over so maybe there is not much to worry
about. However, if a guy can come up with an idea that protects the rudder
and can be easily replaced if damaged, it seems like a good idea. Of
course, I have the ideal tail skid/protector. It's called a tailwheel:)
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com> |
I have a question regarding the 3-leg gps formula. Let's say the wind is
directly out of the West (270). Now if you fly one leg at 0, and one leg
at 180 your ground speed for both of those legs will be the same. So
wouldn't your third leg (and the result of the formula) be radically
different depending on whether you flew it at 270 or 90? I'm sure I'm
missing something ridiculously simple here, but I can't see it.
Thanks,
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@bigskytel.com - http://bigskytel.com/~ebundy/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
I wont argue Tom as I think your right, the important thing is autogas
BOILS at a lower temperature or higher pressure for a given temperature. So
next time you hear of a loss of power on take off, and some one says it
can't have been due to autogas because it was pouring black smoke out, and
it should have been lean not rich if it was vapour lock due to autogas. At
least you will know it could have been the autogas. Tried the block of wood
yet? Regards, Brian
----------
> From: Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AVGAS IN GENERAL
> Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 11:13 PM
>
>
>
> > The danger with mogas is in the engine stopping or losing power when
you
> >want it most. The biggest problem is the
> >reduced Ried's Vapour Pressure or more simply (correct me if I'm wrong)
> >Boiling temperature of mogas.
>
> Brian, I think you have this backwards. The lower the vapor pressure or
> RVP the less vapors or emissions it will give off. Autogas normally has
a
> higher or increased RVP than Avgas.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Velvick
> Phoenix, AZ
> rv-6a psyching myself to prime both fuel tanks
>
>
>
he rear most bulkhead. All of the bolts that pass through
this
> bulkhead to hold on the vert. stab. spar and tie down fit into floating
> nutplates. This _will_ make final installation of the vert. stab. _much_
> easier. If you don't do this, then you have to work through the small
side
> access hole to tighten these bolts. this plate can be installed through
> the 5 inch hole in the F-614 and passed aft to the rear bulkhead
loaction.
>
>
> ... hope this helps ... Gil (I helped fix one) Alexander
>
>
> >
> >It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does
> anyone
> >have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip?
> >
> >Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla.
>
> RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
> "REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
> Newsletter Editors: Permission given to re-print if
> credit is given and a courtesy copy is sent to me.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Flutter |
> If you find this annoying there is a solution, The Extra 300L for about
> $300,000 does not do that at all...... or just back off on the aileron
> deflection slightly.
while you're at it limit the elevator travel and maybe they'll think it's a
$300,000 Ercoupe!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
Eliminate the autogas is cheaper and easier, Jim, after all fuel injection
systems like bubbles from vapour lock even less than carbs. Brian
----------
> From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: AVGAS IN GENERAL
> Date: Sunday, May 31, 1998 6:24 AM
>
>
>
> << Fuel BOILS IN THE CARBY,
> carby float is now heavier than the bubbling fuel and sinks to the
bottom. >>
> Elimination of the CARBY seems to be the logical way to handle this
situation.
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
> WA State
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
I must have been standing too close to my painter when he primed the
latest set of parts; I'm now a shade of green. Oh, well, back to the
project.
PatK - RV-6A
Kelli Lewis wrote:
>
*** Long, gloating post :) snipped ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avgas in General |
>After some more technical testing was completed we found that the
>gentleman at the local gas stop had more than a little bit of water in
>one of his tanks, so he just put some alcohol in to get rid of it.
I've been reading some of this stuff with interest and have made a
few comments along the way in the defense of auto gas. As a user
of auto gas in my automobiles for many years (about 35), I have yet
to have any problems with it, no matter where I got the stuff. At no
time have I ever had an auto stop due to poor gas. The fuel filters
rarely get dirty enough to change out during the entire time I own the
autos, even with over one hundred thousand miles on them. Any
time I've ever opened up a carb, the bowl has been clean.
I have been using auto gas in my airplanes for twelve years. Again,
other than a vapor lock on the ground after quick turn arounds, there
have been no problems with the stuff. When I first started using auto
gas, I even got the gas from some unusual places when on XC trips.
Most of the time, I was using the same gas as that was used in the
airports' tractors. I no longer do that; but, I never had the first
problem while I was doing it. I figured that gas was pretty fresh.
My Cheetah has a tight cowled setup like the RV. I've learned that I
must be careful when I do a quick turnaround anywhere. It is more
important as the temps start warming up after winter cold. Even then,
it's just a minor inconvenience to run the engine up to full power
once before takeoff to be sure the gas is flowing. I've read that I
should not use autogas above 10K'. Heck, I'm a low level pilot who
hates being at 10K'; so, that presents no problems for me. Never do
I have lead fouled plugs except when I use a little 100LL on XC trips.
All I'm trying to say is that you must to listen to both sides before you
decide not to use auto gas. Some who speak against the use of
auto gas have never used it in an airplane. Some have only listened
to others who've listened to others. I didn't buy a Grumman for
several years because I listened to my friends who had nasty tales
about them. Well, I'm flying that Grumman today and am enjoying the
heck out of it. If the Feds have approved auto gas in aircraft, the
insurance companies have given their approvals, airports are now
getting in the act, and future avgas will be a blend of autogas, I'm
having a problem understanding what the problem is with it. I'd just
suggest that you be careful where you buy it, just as you should do
for your car. If you do that, you should have few, if any, problems
with it.
As for comments like not flying XC at night with auto gas, keep in
mind that the air temps are cooler then, which is much better for auto
gas. That's the kind of false information that I'm talking about that
should not be here since it has no facts to back it up. I've flown
many an hour at night using pure auto gas for power. I worry about
where to land if the engine quits due to mechanical failure more than
I think about the gas I'm using. As for the comment above that
stemmed from some guy using alcohol to pick up water in his tanks, I
still remember some friends of mine who bought some 100LL that
looked like it had syrup in it. They almost didn't make it back to the
airport on that stuff. How about those times we've read about Jet A
being put in the 100LL tanks? Just be careful about where you buy
your gas. I get my auto gas around the corner from our airport where
I know it has a high volume of sales. It's always clean and fresh.
One thing that's seldom mentioned is that cost of auto gas vs the
cost of avgas. I save enough money on fuel to pay for my insurance
and some of the tie down. Around here, the savings is about $1.12
per gallon. That makes it substantial enough to at least think about it
if you fly very much.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Working on the canopy)
AA-5A N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
| From: | Ron Caldwell <rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | RV6A Elevator Travel |
I've got my 6A painted and nearly completed. While checking control
surfaces travel, I found that I don't have the full prescribed down
elevator travel (25 degrees). I only have 18 degrees. The forward
flange of the elevator control horn is resting against the control stop
in the full down position. Is 18 degrees OK? Is there anything else I
can do to increase the down travel. BTW, I do get the full 30 degress
up travel. Thanks for your help.
Ron Caldwell
rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
| From: | Ron Caldwell <rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net> |
| Subject: | Control Stiffness |
Just finished hooking up my Control sticks to my airlerons and elevators
on my RV6A. Moving the sticks side to side for the airlerons seems
rather stiff. I tried my friends 6a controls and they flow much more
smoothly and easily. Have I tightened things down to much? Any ideas
appreciated?
Ron Caldwell
rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
<35707275.CEB(at)flash.net>
writes:
>
>cecilth(at)Juno.com wrote:
>>
Hi Jerry, Sure, Send me info off list as to where to send it. I have
photos somewhere I could send. If others want this, I can copy photos.
Cecil Hatfield
cecilth(at)juno.com
Thousand Oaks, CA
>> I designed my own tie down, that can not be bent over or hook onto
>> anything. Its simple
>> Cecil Hatfield
>> Thousand Oaks, California
>>
>Hey Cecil ole buddy ole pal, would you share your design with us????
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Stiffners |
RV-8 Short list ,
RV Tech Support
I am completing my -8 aileron and wonder if I should put a dab of RTV at
the end of the stiffners as is done on the rudder and elevators. It seems
logical that this should be done since it is similar construction &
material size, though the controls on the -8 at .020 are heavier than
other models and probably less prone to cracking.
I can't find anything specifically saying to do or not do this on the
ailerons but I am reluctant to change the weight and or balance of a
control surface without specifically being told it is OK.
Thanks,
Scott A. Jordan
-8 #331
N733JJ (res)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
Brian Holman wrote:
>
>
>(snip)............... Tried the block of wood
> yet? Regards, Brian
>
Brian:
Being the naturally curious sort I am, I would like to try this block of
wood in boiling gasoline experiment. Can you tell me how to boil the gas
without blowing myself up? I don't think I want to put the gasoline in a
pan and boil on my natural gas powered kitchen stove above an open flame
:)
Also, what type of wood, how big, how much gasoline, etc., etc.?
Has anyone else tried this yet?
martin shorman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Jim Sears wrote:
>
> Gee, why is it that I get the idea that the RV-6A bangs it's tail a lot?
Certainly not in my one year experience.
> Is
> this true or am I detecting some bad landings caused by some
> overzealous handling (showing off)? Since I've never banged the tail
> of my airplanes during landings, I'm wondering if there is something
> about the -6A that makes this an easier happening. Showing off does
> not count, fellas. :-)
>
> I have installed the Orndorff tie down ring. I hope this will tie down the
> airplane OK. I'm hoping I can keep the tail off the ground during my
> landings, even if I do show off a bit.
>
I show off a lot but that's another story. My 6A has not hit the tail yet,
although I did have a slight scrape during a half flap crosswind landing in about
30K component, when I had about 50 hours experience. This was caused by a too
late decision to go around and my inexperience with the pitch angle for landing.
That scrape took off the paint but spared the metal, and certainly didn't get
near the rudder even though I mounted my rudder/verical stab about an inch
lower than plans. At present I have logged about 320 landings in 228 hours and
am a lot more consistent. All landings are marvelous.
Your ability to hit the tie down ring on landing is controlled by the c of g, the
flap setting and the speed at touchdown. On my nose heavy (O 360 with C/S prop)
airplane, it is very tough when solo to scrape the tail at any speed or flap
setting, but with a heavy passenger it is much easier to wind up with the nose
too high in flaring--until you get a good sight picture of what to hold. With
mine I would deem that you would have to be brain dead to hit the ring on take
off. In any event the ring has to fail first to allow the rudder to strike. My
guess is you would need a significant sink rate as well as a high pitch angle to
do that. In that case you better look at the main gear too. I would give some
very careful thought before adding something stronger as a skid as this may cause
the tail cone, or aft fuselage skin to crumple instead of the rudder which could
be a far bigger repair job.
In conclusion I will repeat again that this is the easiest airplane to land I
have ever flown.
All of the above is just one man's opinion
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
I have a pic of Jon's seat, now. I don't have a way to post it
to a website for everyone to look at, so I have been mailing it
out to individuals. If someone can volunteer some website space,
I will gladly mail it to you to post, so everyone can see it.
Thanks. Michael C. Lott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tUnd(at)webtv.net (Tim Underwood) |
| Subject: | Re: Avgas in General |
If your worried about fuel cost try hang gliding.
Want me to quote facts:
TCM Aircraft Engine Technical Bulletin #T93-5
ASTM D910
ASTM D-439
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Tank attach angle & tank rib. |
Working on fuel tank parts, have cut out the T-405, and noticed that the
T-shaped "dent" on the T-803 end rib prevents it laying flat against the
web. Should I hammer it flat on my anvil, thus warping the rib (already
drilled to tank skin), or just try to rivit around it. Also, the ring is
interfering with the access plate. Should it just be cut away entirely?
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Fiddling with fuel tank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
Listers:
Anyone know if the Navaid servo can be installed under the seat in an RV-8,
or must the servo be mounted in the wing (probably the right wing). I'm
closing my wings up soon and need to know! Retrofitting to a closed wing
doesn't sound like fun.
Regards,
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, wings
Vancouver, WA
Home Wing - Van's Air Force
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avgas in General |
>After some more technical testing was completed we found that the
gentleman at the local gas stop had more than a little bit of water in one
of his tanks, so he just put some alcohol in to get rid of it.
>Trevor Mills
>RV 80605
With such extensive test equipment as a mason jar and a magic marker one
can test for alcohol in *EVERY* load of fuel.
Place a mark on the outside of a mason jar a inch from the bottom. Fill
jar to the mark with water from sink in FBO restroom. Add auto fuel to
jar, install lid and shake. Allow to seetle for a few minutes, "read" the
line. If alcohol is present the fuel and water line will have moved from
the mark. If not, then the line will match the fuel/water separation exactly.
Relative amounts of alcohol can be measured with a graduated cylinder from
any chemistry set if you are interested in the *percentage* of alcohol
instead of the yes/no indication.
Now, can we get back to RVs?
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Maybe ... but ground loop damage is usually more severe...:^)
>
>Best fix of all, is put the nose wheel where it belongs......on the
>tail....oooh, who said that ?
>
>----------
>> From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A tail tie down
>> Date: Saturday, May 30, 1998 12:45 PM
>>
>>
>> Yes ... I helped repair a RV6A that suffered this.
>>
>> The tie down ring did bend upwards, but could be essentially
>> straightened. Since it's stainless, it deforms fairly easily.
>>
>> It was adifferent story at the rudder FG lower fairing though. The
>> fairing was scraped and damaged, but it ends up the the FG fairing is
>> stronger than the 0.016 alum. skin of the rudder. This caused the upward
>> loads of impact to buckle the aft edge of the rudder a few inches above
>the
>> lower fairing.
>>
>> Structurally, the damage was not bad, and the plane flew for a while
>> like that, however the fix was to construct a new rudder. Someone else
>> built the rudder, I just got the upper fairing glass work to match the
>> exising vert. stab. (added about 3/16 to the top), painted it and fitted
>> it. The old tie down ring was re-used.
>>
>>
>> On the other thread... I fabricated a 0.032 plate that sits on the
>> inside of the rear most bulkhead. All of the bolts that pass through
>this
>> bulkhead to hold on the vert. stab. spar and tie down fit into floating
>> nutplates. This _will_ make final installation of the vert. stab. _much_
>> easier. If you don't do this, then you have to work through the small
>side
>> access hole to tighten these bolts. this plate can be installed through
>> the 5 inch hole in the F-614 and passed aft to the rear bulkhead
>loaction.
>>
>>
>> ... hope this helps ... Gil (I helped fix one) Alexander
>>
>>
>> >
>> >It seems to me that on a 6A, that the rudder hits before the ring. Does
>> anyone
>> >have experience hitting A's on hard surfaces and skinning the FG tip?
>> >
>> >Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla.
>>
>> RV6A, #20701, finishing kit
>> "REPLY" sends to entire RV-list
>> Newsletter Editors: Permission given to re-print if
>> credit is given and a courtesy copy is sent to me.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
I try to fly as much as circumstance will allow, and I still look up from
the lawnmower when I hear an engine overhead. I will run a bit when I hear
a homebuilt exhaust. My wife and I go and sit at the airport to listen and
watch as the avians come home to settle in the twilight. Damn, it is so
pretty. Tower says, "Make it quick, homebuilt turning final 2 miles out"
Got to be an RV, On the radio, I always say RV, never just homebuilt. Here
he comes, a black silhouette against a red-gold sky, swoops to a text book
landing the kind of which I never can do.....................But....I can
still fly a bit of combat..........
2 nights ago, I went for a blast up the valley....old folks need to
do this.... at 2000' feet, things were comfy without a jacket on and
vents open. I went to 6000 to see how much snow was on the peaks and to see
into the canyons and valleys lying many miles away. I notice it is much
colder up here, so I begin to let down at 1800 rpm when lo ! , a bandit I
see heading West and fast and well lighted against the bronze splash of
reflected sun on the serpentine river below. Well, poor me, here it comes
again, that feeling which is automatic and I cannot control (I remember
similar when spying pretty chick in my youth) beyond my control...you know
what is coming, I must go down to engage him. But from my height and speed
quickly up to 185 indicated, I am right on him, but foolishly overshoot.
He now sees me, and picks up the game and swoops and arcs behind me. Can't
have this ! The straps keep this old bod from twisting around to look, so I
crank RV around and once again I get behind. Clever fellow, he breaks off
and I lose him in the dark of the mountain range. Just as well, I rather he
not see my numbers, not everyone has a sense of humor...I run to home base,
land quickly and look at bird. No holes..it is quiet now, just the resident
hawk and a few cows nearby.
I drive out the gate and two Canada geese give me a dirty look. Guess I
didn't land as nice as they do. Back home, old fart puts feet up and wife
asks, "have a nice time"? "Want to watch wheel of Fortune"?..No
thanks....too much excitement like that for and old warrior like yours
truly.....Besides, phone rings and friend says " I saw you blast over my
house tonight " Me ?
Blast ? I was throttled way back to go home " That is the way of the RV
though, it isn't just me that runs to the window when the sound of those
pipes go by !..........What a nice placid way for old folks to spend an
evening. I can't help but smile a bit when the Safeway boy asks, " Can I
help you out with your bags to your car Sir ?..........Jeez..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Elevator Travel |
> I've got my 6A painted and nearly completed. While checking control
> surfaces travel, I found that I don't have the full prescribed down
> elevator travel (25 degrees). I only have 18 degrees. The forward
> flange of the elevator control horn is resting against the control stop
> in the full down position. Is 18 degrees OK? Is there anything else I
> can do to increase the down travel. BTW, I do get the full 30 degress
> up travel. Thanks for your help.
Did you relieve the flanges on the HS rear spar? That is pretty much
universally necessary in order to get full down travel.
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@bigskytel.com - http://bigskytel.com/~ebundy/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL & floating wood? |
>
>>(snip)...... Tried the block of wood yet? Regards, Brian
>Being the naturally curious sort I am, I would like to try this block of
>wood in boiling gasoline experiment. Can you tell me how to boil the gas
>without blowing myself up? I don't think I want to put the gasoline in a
>pan and boil on my natural gas powered kitchen stove above an open flame
>:)
>Also, what type of wood, how big, how much gasoline, etc., etc.?
>Has anyone else tried this yet?
>martin shorman
Martin (and anyone else wanting to try this...)
Brian said in his lengthy post:
"Try putting a block of wood (which just floats) in water and watch what
happens when the water boils."
With all the chatter about avgas vs mogas I guess it was understandable
that the leap would be made to floating the wood in gas, but that isn't
what he suggested.
Brian's implication is that the wood will sink when the water boils.
(Haven't tried this myself, but may this afternoon.) If the wood did float
in any kind of gasoline, which with the reduced specific gravity of gas
compared to water suggests that it would not, then any open flame or
extreme heat source near the gas would be unreasonably dangerous.
Once we have all boiled our blocks of wood, where will we use them in the
construction of our RVs?
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Michael V Seager wrote:
>
> Dennis, We commonly do very full stall landings in the RV6A and there is
> really no reason to drag the tail. This is normally caused by over
> controlling which is very easy to avoid.The same goes for soft field
> type takeoffs. Many students drug the tail in cessna 150s too but that
> certainly is not neccesary.
> Michael Seager CFI I do the pilot check out in the RV6 and RV6A For Vans
> rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com
> 503 429 5103
> Hi Mike,
Last summer I flew round trip from Los Angeles to Oshkosh in another
pilot's RV-6A. My first attempted landing on this trip resulted in the
damage described by Gil Alexander. The landing occurred at Milford, UT, as
I recall. As I flared for landing, the aircraft began to float, with the
nose surprisingly high, and as the airspeed bled off, the owner (and PIC)
took control of the aircraft and landed it, damaging the rudder and
tie-down ring in the process of recovering from the nose-high attitude.
Ultimately, I paid for a new rudder, and Gil wound up helping with the
repair, but that's another story. The incident was, for me, an awkward
embarrassment that led to some serious introspection. After the trip, and
after a flight shooting landings with an instructor that was probably
unnecessary, I reflected thoughtfully on this incident and came to the
conclusion that the problem was not induced by improper technique, or a
full stall approach, or an attempt to drag the aircraft in, but, rather, a
center of gravity that was too far aft, and for which I was unprepared.
The airplane was loaded to the gills, so to speak, with baggage, tool box,
oxygen, towbar, charts, approach plates, equipment, etc., and was low on
fuel. The PIC made no weight and balance check before flight, although he
might have had some intuition about where the C.G. was from past
experience. My own intuition suggests that, without some systematic way to
estimate the C.G., pilots of such shortly coupled aircraft as the RVs may
be unknowing victims of C.G.s that are out of limits. I was wondering if
you have some comments on the aft C.G. problem and how it affects the
attitude of the RV-6/6A in slow flight and in the flare.
Thanks.
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
>
>I wont argue Tom as I think your right, the important thing is autogas
>BOILS at a lower temperature or higher pressure for a given temperature. So
>next time you hear of a loss of power on take off, and some one says it
>can't have been due to autogas because it was pouring black smoke out, and
>it should have been lean not rich if it was vapour lock due to autogas. At
>least you will know it could have been the autogas.
I am real interested in this subject, Brian as I have a Petersen Autogas
STC for my Cessna and am thinking about starting to use mogas in it. I
looked up the distillation curves for avgas and for unleaded gasolines.
They show the initial boiling points for both fuels start at 75 degrees.
So it looks like they will both start to boil at the same temperature, but
I guess it is a matter on how much each evaporates. Avgas's RVP is from 3
to 5 and mogas runs 7-9 in summer and 11 or higher in winter, so mogas is
definately more volatile.
It seems that there are potential problems either way you go. If you use
100LL in a plane designed for 80/87 Avgas, then you may have fouled plugs
or sticky valves from the excessive lead in the fuel (2 grams versus .5
grams in 80/87). If you use mogas, you may have vapor lock problems and
you have to run some 100LL every so often to add some lead. My Petersen
STC says you can use mogas and every 75 hours burn a tank of 100 LL to add
lead to the engine or you can blend mogas 3 to 1 with 100LL to get the
correct lead ratio for the engine. There are a couple of kits out there
to check the RVP of gasoline and whether it has any ethanol in it.
The Following copied from the Petersen STC web site
Thanks to Dr. Ray Hodges of Australia, a simple fail-safe portable tester
is available. The Hodges Fuel Volatility Tester is small enough to be
carried in the airplane and will tell you at a glance whether or not the
fuel has any serious vapor lock potential, given the current outside air
temperature. It immediately tells you if the fuel could cause vapor lock,
regardless of contributing factors such as, temperature, altitude, seasonal
blend, weathering history, or blends with avgas or ethanol. The operation
of the tester is fail safe since air leaks cause low ("unsafe") readings.
This tester has become standard equipment for many people who use auto fuel
and desire a preflight safety check of the fuel. Operating the tester is
quick and simple. A sample of fuel is drawn into the syringe; the syringe
is then coupled to the gage and the plunger is drawn down. This creates a
vacuum in the syringe, the fuel boils, evaporates, and a reading is
obtained on the gage which indicates whether the fuel is "safe or unsafe".
Complete instructions are, of course, included with the tester.
The Hodges Volatility Tester gives an on-the-spot answer to the question -
"could the fuel cause vapor lock?" - and unlike all other standard tests it
does not give an answer that needs further interpretation. If the fuel has
weathered to a lower Reid Vapor Pressure (RVP) than normal, the equipment
automatically accounts for the current vapor pressure, and registers a
"safe or unsafe" result dependent only on the current value. This capacity
to read current value gives the pilot the option of blending fuels until a
safe reading is obtained, or of delaying the flight until a cooler part of
the day when a "safe" reading can be obtained.
Please note that the volatility tester does not give octane ratings, nor
does it specifically give you RVP. However, a chart is available at your
request that can be used to extrapolate RVP to within 1 psi. RVP by itself
means nothing. The tester is designed to give a "go-no go" indication which
is really the most useful way to evaluate the fuel for vapor lock
potential. Furthermore, samples for testing must be fresh, since any sample
collected in an open jar or blends tested that are not properly mixed won't
give a true result.
Highly recommended for any low wing pump fed airplane, and for all
homebuilts, the Hodges Volatility Tester sells for $52.00 shipping included.
ALCOHOL TESTER
We include a description of how to test for alcohol along with each STC. It
is a simple test and you can easily make your own tester. However, we also
offer a reusable alcohol tester for $10.00.
>Tried the block of wood
>yet? Regards, Brian
No, the next time I boil eggs I will throw in a chunk of wood for
flavor. I am going to put a equal amount of mogas and avgas out at
different temperatures and see how long it takes each to evaporate.
I have been reading that you can not burn autogas in the 160 hp O-320's
because of the higher compressions. I have found out that Petersen has an
STC for 160 hp O-320's. You have to use 91 Octane minimum Premium auto gas
instead of 87 Octane unlead. Still a lot cheaper than Avgas.
Regards,
Tom don't want to talk about fuel tanks Velvick
Phoenix, AZ
rv-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
| Subject: | Rear tie down hook. |
Regarding rear tie down hooks, I'm glad others are bringing it up. I've
had 2 rear tie down incidents in the last year with my RV6A. Both were
at short grass strips. I'll explain, both strips were shorter than 1200
feet, getting on the ground was not a problem, the length of the runway
was not a problem. It was while rolling out that I had the problem. In
both instances I was rolling out with plenty of runway left when my nose
wheel hit a GOPHER Mound(Minnesota #$@& creatures), nose goes up and
tail hits ground. In both instances the tie down ring was driven
backwards, forcing the stainless steal edge into the rudder forward
fiberglass bottom fairing, as a result I was unable to move my rudder
after impact, fortunately in either case I didn't have to do a go
around!! I removed the rear tie down ring. I did inform Vans of the
situation, because I feel theres a little bit of a safety issue. I
think An aerodynamic skid plate maybe the solution. Or a stainless
steal bracket similar to what we have in the wing's where we have the
option to remove the ring might be the best answer. To answer the what
hits first question, It's the tie down hook!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Noel E Drew <noeldrew(at)iafrica.com> |
| Subject: | FW: Elevator trim |
-----Original Message-----
From: Noel E Drew [SMTP:noeldrew(at)iafrica.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 1998 9:28 PM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: Elevator trim
My challenge is to get a few more knots out of my RV6 as I intend participating
in the annual South African State President's Air race.
In my search for drag that could easily be reduced I noticed that my trim at top
speed left the elevator slightly low with the counterweight sitting above the
top surface of the horizontal stabiliser by about 3/8th of an inch. My conclusion
was that I had either an error in the alignment of my elevator (or wing)
or a C. of G. which was too far back. A weight and balance check eliminated
the C of G possibility and I experimented with a .040" shim on the front bolt
down which lifted the leading edge of the horizontal stab. The next test resulted
in a lesser deflection of only about 1/8th inch. This has had a positive
effect on speed of at least 1 knot and no noticable effect on stability. Slow
speed flight is well in trimmable range.
The next step seems to be a shim of .063" but I thought I would put this out for
comment from the list before proceeding. I have not seen any discussion on
the subject before but has anyone else gone through a similar trimming process?
Noel Drew
Durban South Africa
RV6 ZU-APF 160hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wntzl(at)execpc.com (David M Wentzell) |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator tip ribs |
Greetings,
The plans do not specifically say at what point to attach the 603, & 604
tip ribs to each other. I think they should be attached together early -
before attaching to the spar. Is this correct? - or did I miss something?
Also, the 605 El. Horn seems to have a slightly different angle than
that made by the rib, spar, & skin at that corner. I have not attached
those elements together yet - Maybe (hopefully) that will not be the case.
Any solutions to that?
Thanks
David Wentzell, Racine, WI (RV6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Tabs |
I would like to but fuel tank tabs similar to those in a Piper Warrior in my
RV6A tanks. I tried the archives but promptly got overcome by the deluge of
info. If anyone else has completed this, what length were your tabs, for what
quantity of fuel and exactly where did you mount them?
Thanks, in advance!
George Stanley
Desert Center, CA.
RV-6A, Fuel Tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach angle & tank rib. |
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com>
Date: Sunday, May 31, 1998 11:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: Tank attach angle & tank rib.
>
>
> Working on fuel tank parts, have cut out the T-405, and noticed that the
>T-shaped "dent" on the T-803 end rib prevents it laying flat against the
>web. Should I hammer it flat on my anvil, thus warping the rib (already
>drilled to tank skin), or just try to rivit around it. Also, the ring is
>interfering with the access plate. Should it just be cut away entirely?
>
Hi Brian,
I have some bad news for you. It looks like you are working with an 804 rib
instead of an 803. The 803 has no T shaped dent.
Good luck,
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
Michael;
If you send your snail mail address, I'll send a SASE for a jons' seat
picture.
steve
schmitz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Tabs |
George
The best fuel gauge is a small wooden stick that you can mark the No of
usable gallons on it. Use this to dip the tanks and it will be small
enough to keep in the cockpit.
We have one in the Luscombe and we had one in the Turbulent & my RV8
will have one.
When we rebuilt the Luscombe we also put the aircraft into flying
attitude and gradually added fuel. From this we were able to make a
placard to show how much fuel was remaining in gallons instead of 1/4,
1/2 full etc. as marked on the gauges.
This has been very usefull on long cross countries.
In message <13dbbc8a.3571a39b(at)aol.com>, Wndwlkr711(at)aol.com writes
>
>I would like to but fuel tank tabs similar to those in a Piper Warrior in my
>RV6A tanks. Thanks, in advance!
>
>George Stanley
>Desert Center, CA.
>RV-6A, Fuel Tanks
>
RV8 80274
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cheetah(at)saber.net |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Stiffners |
Hi Scott
I faced the same problem as you and I decided to go ahead and do it. I
figured a little dab of RTV in the ailerons wouldnt hurt anything.
Rob Miller
80153 Skinning Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Trusty" <dtrusty(at)iname.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
Guys and Gals:
Just put a vapor return line in as described in the RVator a fews years
back. It works good on Ellison TB or carb engines.
Dennis Trusty dtrusty(at)iname.com
Granbury,TX
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL & floating wood test |
Unistar Computers wrote:
>
>
> Brian said in his lengthy post:
>
> "Try putting a block of wood (which just floats) in water and watch what
> happens when the water boils."
>(snip)..............
>
> Once we have all boiled our blocks of wood, where will we use them in the
> construction of our RVs?
>
> Bob Steward, A&P IA
Bob:
I have to admit to being a bit red faced after reading your posting. I
should have gone back and tried to find Brian's original posting
regarding the liquid to use in the float test. I had an accident as a
youngster trying to recreate an experiment with gasoline, and I wanted
to verify the proper procedures.
At any rate let me tell you the results of the wood block test I just
got finished with.
Room Temperature 73f
Stainless steel Revereware pan 5.75" dia x 2.75" deep
approx 3 cups tap water
1 - 2x4x 1.25" long
The wood 2x4 scrap was placed in pan after water and the gas flame
turned on (no gasoline added to water :) )
As the water started to boil, approx 4 minutes later, the wood began to
move around due to the boiling water.
After 7 minutes of boiling, the wood remained floating.
I then removed the 2x4 scrap and placed a scrap of clear pine which
measured 1.5"x11/16"x4.75" in the boiling water.
After an additional 6 minutes of boiling, the scrap continued to float.
I shut the heat off, removed the wood scrap and washed out the pan.
Approximately one cup of water had boiled off in the 17 minutes of heat.
Did I do something wrong here? Was the block actually supposed to sink?
Has anybody else tried this?
martin shorman, lawton, ia
wood block floats in boiling water
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thunder Mustang Crash |
This is not an RV, but yet a very high profile experimental airplane.
The entire source is listed. Can any one verify this?
Subject:
Thunder Mustang Crash
Date:
31 May 1998 20:15:20 GMT
From:
"sven"
Micron Internet Services
Newsgroups:
rec.aviation.homebuilt, rec.aviation.marketplace,
rec.aviation.products,
rec.aviation.restoration
Apparently yesterday afternoon (Saturday). Papa 51's Thunder
Mustang
crashed 25 miles or so southwest of Boise, Idaho. Both Pilots were
killed
on impact. Not Much is known of the accident as of yet, some reports
lead
to a stall spin scenario.....
I will try to keep the group informed as information becomes
available....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach angle & tank rib. |
<< Working on fuel tank parts, have cut out the T-405, and noticed that the
T-shaped "dent" on the T-803 end rib prevents it laying flat against the
web. Should I hammer it flat on my anvil, thus warping the rib (already
drilled to tank skin), or just try to rivit around it. Also, the ring is
interfering with the access plate. Should it just be cut away entirely?
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Fiddling with fuel tank. >>
Brian:
Van's tooled up and made a new root rib for the RV-8 wing tank. The stiffener
ring on the original rib got in the way of the tank cover doubler attach ring.
This, in combination with the tooling hole, made it difficult to place the
stiffener ring on the rib without fear of leaks later on. The T shaped
stiffener bead was, I believe, omitted on the new rib. When I called and
politely inquired, they sent me the new rib, free of charge. But I had to ask
for it... If you have not riveted your tank yet, I suggest that you consider
obtaining/installing this new root rib. By your serial #, I'd guess that you
have the old rib style, I did, and I'm 3 serial numbers later than you.
I'd also suggest that you consider (I said consider here guys) using sealed
nutplates (NAS1473) inside the tank where the sender and cover attach doubler
plates are secured. They are expensive, however you will have less fuel leak
worries later on. On the other hand, many, many RV's have been built without
sealed nutplates which have had no leaks (yet?). But then, I did read about a
few builders that did have fuel leaks past the screw threads.... Van's is
simply trying to save us builders a few bucks here, it's one of those trade-
offs I guess.
Hope you like pro-seal...
Hope this helps,
Jon Ross 80094 Skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stiffness |
>Just finished hooking up my Control sticks to my airlerons and elevators
>on my RV6A. Moving the sticks side to side for the airlerons seems
>rather stiff. I tried my friends 6a controls and they flow much more
>smoothly and easily. Have I tightened things down to much? Any ideas
>appreciated?
>
>Ron Caldwell
>rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
>
Ron,
Go through your control system piece by piece to find out what is binding.
The ailerons should be smooth as silk. When rigging my -6A, I found that if
I tightened the long bolts (AN4-25?) that go through the bottom of the
control sticks( these are the ones that go through the brass bushing, that
the ailerons were very stiff. In my case, the solution was to file a bit
off of the steel weldment that rides on the brass bushing. If that isn't
where yours binds, check each bellcrank and try to isolate the problem.
I also found that control stick boots made out of naugahyde will stiffen the
controls somewhat. I didn't consider this to be a problem as the control
system itself was very smooth.
Hope this helps
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Elevator tip ribs |
Hi Dave:
I riveted my tip ribs together prior to riveting the assembly to
the elevator spar. As you noted, the plans do not specify when to to
this, but it seemed to work out fine for me. It was just easier working
with two small parts, as opposed to messing with it with the spar
flopping around the whole time.
As to the elevator horn not in synch with the elevator skins et al,
I had no problem with either elevator, in fact I just got done riveting
my left control horn on. So I can't help you there. Just make sure
that the control horn is bent at the prescribed 68 degrees and you
should be OK.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 Left Elevator
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
<< Best fix of all, is put the nose wheel where it belongs......on the
tail....oooh, who said that ? >>
Why would I want to raise my insurance and lower my resale value?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Stiffness |
>Just finished hooking up my Control sticks to my airlerons and elevators
>on my RV6A. Moving the sticks side to side for the airlerons seems
>rather stiff. I tried my friends 6a controls and they flow much more
>smoothly and easily. Have I tightened things down to much? Any ideas
>appreciated?
Aileron control movement should be very free and smooth due to the use of
ball-bearing rod-ends at every point of movement/rotation.
You should proceed to isolate the point of stiffness or binding by
disconnecting one component at a time, starting at the ailerons and working
inboard. For example, if you disconnect the pushrod from the right aileron
and the stiffness disappears, then you know that your problem is with the
movement of the aileron itself.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thunder Mustang Crash |
>
>This is not an RV, but yet a very high profile experimental airplane.
>The entire source is listed. Can any one verify this?
>
>Subject:
> Thunder Mustang Crash
Yes, I can verify it. A friend of mine lives in Caldwell, Idaho (the home
of the first customer flying RV-8). The Thunder Mustang is built in Napa,
Idaho, about 10 miles south of Caldwell, He knows Dan Denney and the
Thunder Mustang project. He said an eye witness said there was a "pop", it
nosed over and went straight into the ground. Nothing left except a few
chunks of the engine and a black hole 50' in diameter. Dan was in his
Glasair at the time.
Mike Robbins
Issaquah, WA
RV-8Q #591
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL & floating wood? |
<< Once we have all boiled our blocks of wood, where will we use them in the
construction of our RVs? >>
There you go. You can make a tail skid out of them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
<< Why would I want to raise my insurance and lower my resale value? >>
Here we go again!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | HS608 rivetting problem |
This should be easy, but I seem to be able to make anything
complicated. I'm riveting the HS ribs to the rear spar. My problem is that
when I squeeze the rivet it seems to lift the flange of the rib slightly so
that it's no longer flush with the spar.
There's only 2 holes in the flange and I had the other one clecoed.
I also had a C-clamp holding the flange against the spar in the center and
an elastic cord pressing the top of the hs608 down onto the spar. The
flange looked flush. After the rivet was squeezed, the flange has sort of
"flared" up, I guess from the rivet expanding into the hole. I have
squeezed 3 rivets so far in the two hs608s. Two of them show this very
obvious gap which I can get a .012 or .013 feeler gauge into all the way to
the rivet. The third rivet "looks OK" but using the feeler gauge shows it
has a .003 or .004 gap also.
Is this acceptable? (Sure doesn't sound like it.) Should I drill
these out & try again? I can't think what I could do to better hold the
flange in contact with the rear spar, though.
Would using the rivet gun instead of the squeezer reduce this
effect? The bucking bar needs a lot of room around the rivet and I'd have
to remove the C-clamp to fit it in there, so it might just make it worse.
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
Ed Bundy
You wrote "I have a question regarding the 3-leg gps formula. Let's say
the wind is
directly out of the West (270). Now if you fly one leg at 0, and one leg
at 180 your ground speed for both of those legs will be the same. So
wouldn't your third leg (and the result of the formula) be radically
different depending on whether you flew it at 270 or 90? "
This is one of my favorite formulas, described by David Fox in Kitplanes of
Feb 1995, page 49, so I thought I'd try to answer your question. The
formula works when you change from one track to another by 90 degrees. So
in the case you describe V1 is tracking 0, V2 is tracking either 90 or 270
degrees depending on whether you make left or right turns and V3 is
tracking 180. I worked out both cases using the formula, where the second
leg was either upwind or downwind as you described. This gives different
numbers for V2 in the formula. You still get the same answer however.
That is because V2 appears twice in the formula, once in the numerator of a
term and once in the denominator of a term. It is the combined effects of
these two terms that results in the formula working.
To refresh people's minds, the formula allows quick and accurate
determination of TAS, wind speed and direction using GPS by flying three
successive tracks (not headings) 90 degrees to each other, noting the
ground speed and then making a calculation.
People on the list quote performance many different ways, IAS, CAS, TAS
etc., often using uncalibrated ASIs. As a result comparisons are almost
impossible to make. Performance comparisons would be a lot more useful if
people quoted TAS obtained this way.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | AVGAS IN GENERAL |
>>Tried the block of wood
>>yet? Regards, Brian
I got a wild hair and tried the block of wood. Despite untold looks of
curiosity from my wife, I boiled a piece of Douglas fir and a piece of oak.
The fir stayed afloat, but the oak sank like a brick when it started to boil
heavily. FWIW.....
Regards,
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wings
rib, spar, & skin at that corner. I have not attached
>those elements together yet - Maybe (hopefully) that will not be the case.
>Any solutions to that?
> Thanks
> David Wentzell, Racine, WI (RV6)
>
David,
I attached the ribs together before attaching them to the spar. I think you
could do it the other way if you wanted to. It's your choice.
As for the angle of the elevator horn at the spar/root rib junction, the
skin is ultimately going to determine the angle here. First, make sure that
the root end of the spar is not extending out and contacting the radius at
the bottom of the "V" in the Wd 605. If it does, file it down so that it
clears. After you are satisfied here, cleco the skin to the skeleton and
check for proper fit of the horn. It should fit fairly close, but I think a
slight amount of spreading or "pinching" of the "V" should be OK. If it's
just way off, contact Van's about possibly sending it back and getting one
that fits better.
Note: Check, double check and triple check that you get the correct horn
drilled to each elevator. Fitting them upside down would be hard to correct
without buying some new parts.
Keep at it....
>
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV Fly-in at Creswell, Oregon |
I heard there is an RV flyin at the Creswell Oregon Airport tomorrow
evening(monday) . Does anyone have the specifics on this?
Von Alexander
RV-4 #544 skinning fuse
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net> |
| Subject: | Dipstick-Oil type |
Lycoming gurus,
I have a Lyc. 0-360-A4M (used) mounted to a RV-6 that I just filled with
8 quarts oil using the slow process of "pre-oiling". However, my
dipstick is only showing 7quarts. Could I have the wrong dipstick for
that engine? Would the oil filter and engine cavities hold a quart of
oil? How much difference does in make on the dipstick whether the
aircraft is on all 3 wheels or flight level?
Thanks in advance.
Warren Bishop N876TB
North Platte, NE
getting tangled up in my wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cherry Rivet application |
I did the same thing on my left elevator. At our builders group meeting here
in the Minneapolis area, one of our advisors said to just use aviation grade
nuts and bolts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Hi All,
The method I've found to keep one from inadvertanly hitting the tail
on landing is to mount an antenna (wire wipe type, not plastic...) on the
belly of the plane such that it's tip end will come in contact with the
runway prior to the tail tiedown. This has saved me a** many times....
It's not a cure all... You can still over rotate and slap the tail, but
it clearly demonstrates the maximum rotation angle when landing....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
E. Windsor, Ct
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Because it's the morally right thing to do.
:)
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> << Best fix of all, is put the nose wheel where it belongs......on the
> tail....oooh, who said that ? >>
>
> Why would I want to raise my insurance and lower my resale value?
>
> -GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Go look up "irony" in the dictionary!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< I have read NO negative comments from
anyone who has actually flown behind an auto engine, only from people who
haven't tried it because "it won't work". >>
THAT says it all.
Bob-gonna-use-a-rotary-but-not-in-a-737-Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server |
________________________________________________________________________________
--part0_896665353_boundary
--part0_896665353_boundary
From: Patches1(at)aol.com
Subject: Airline Bashing
Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 11:36:02 EDT
Here are some actual humorous statements by
airline flights crews.
As the plane landed and was coming to a stop
at Washington National, a lone voice comes over
the loudspeaker: "Whoa, big fella...WHOA..!"
"As we prepare for takeoff, please make sure
your tray tables and seat backs are fully upright
in their most uncomfortable position."
"There may be 50 ways to leave your lover,
but there are only 4 ways out of this airplane..."
"Your seat cushions can be used for flotation,
and in the event of an emergency water landing,
please take them with our compliments."
"We do feature a smoking section on this flight;
if you must smoke, contact a member of the flight
crew and we will escort you to the wing of the
airplane."
"Smoking in the lavatories is prohibited. Any
person caught smoking in the lavatories will be
asked to leave the plane immediately."
"Good morning. As we leave Dallas, it's warm,
the sun is shining, and the birds are singing.
We are going to Charlotte, where it's dark,
windy and raining. Why in the world y'all wanna
go there I really don't know."
Pilot : "Folks, we have reached our cruising
altitude now, so I am going to switch the seat
belt sign off. Feel free to move about as you wish,
but please stay inside the plane till we land...
it's a bit cold outside, and if you walk on the
wings it affects the flight pattern."
Pilot: "Folks, if you were with us last week,
we never got around to mentioning that it was
National Procrastination day. If you get a
chance this week, please try to celebrate it.
If you can't get to it, then maybe try to do it
at the weekend, but no big rush. Have a nice
day."
And, after landing: "Thank you for flying Delta
Business Express. We hope you enjoyed giving us
the business as much as we enjoyed taking you
for a ride."
As we waited just off the runway for another
airliner to cross in front of us, some of the
passengers were beginning to retrieve luggage
from the overhead bins. The head steward
announced on the intercom, "This aircraft is
equipped with a video surveillance system that
monitors the cabin during taxiing. Any passengers
not remaining in their seats until the aircraft
comes to a full and complete stop at the gate
will be strip-searched as they leave the aircraft.
Here are a few heard from Northwest:
"Should the cabin lose pressure, oxygen masks
will drop from the overhead area. Please place
the bag over your own mouth and nose before
assisting children or adults acting like children."
"As you exit the plane, please make sure to
gather all of your belongings. Anything left
behind will be distributed evenly among the
flight attendants. Please do not leave children
or spouses."
And from the pilot during his welcome message:
"We are pleased to have some of the best flight
attendants in the industry... Unfortunately none
of them are on this flight...!
--part0_896665353_boundary--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Flutter |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Mike,
Aileron stall, which you are probably confusing for flutter, is common
if the roll is performed at or above the minimum maneuvering speed.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
E. Windsor, Ct.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<<
<< When we talk of a Mazda doing 6000 rpm, just what
is doing 6000 rpm? The rotors or the output shaft? The rotor turns once
for
each turn of the output shaft so which is it? >>
The rotor turns at 1/3 the output shaft.
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla
>>
Duhh,
Sorry, typo. Thas what I meant. That's why the question.
So what's the answer?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<<
Bob Fritz,
Don't know why you are knocking Boeing 737's. One of the safest aircraft
ever
developed. Think about it!! How many accident free miles do you think the
737's
have??? A staggering amount!! You should be one of the people who
realizes
Airplanes are Mechanical . They can and do fail or break!
Stew RV4273sb >>
I tell ya', some folks are:
1. too slow to get the joke
2. don't understand irony
3. have a personal ax to grind
4. miss the point altogether and nit pick on the irrelevant.
Consider yourself flamed back!
And in case you hadn't noticed, the entire 737 fleet was grounded while they
did a retrofit to some part that "only" lasted a bazillion flight hours! That
was my point!!!
Sheesh, I'm gonna go climb back into the fuselage.......
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Thunder Mustang Crash |
Just a little bit of info on the Thunder Mustang, best glide speed is
(or was) 158kts :(
Last I heard they were putting a turboprop in the thing. Wonder if this
had anything to do with it?
(Yes, 158, it's not a typo!)
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Michael J. Robbins wrote:
>
>
> >
> >This is not an RV, but yet a very high profile experimental airplane.
> >The entire source is listed. Can any one verify this?
> >
> >Subject:
> > Thunder Mustang Crash
>
> Yes, I can verify it. A friend of mine lives in Caldwell, Idaho (the home
> of the first customer flying RV-8). The Thunder Mustang is built in Napa,
> Idaho, about 10 miles south of Caldwell, He knows Dan Denney and the
> Thunder Mustang project. He said an eye witness said there was a "pop", it
> nosed over and went straight into the ground. Nothing left except a few
> chunks of the engine and a black hole 50' in diameter. Dan was in his
> Glasair at the time.
>
> Mike Robbins
> Issaquah, WA
> RV-8Q #591
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Prince P-Tip Prop |
| From: | carowbotham(at)Juno.com (Charles A Rowbotham) |
I'd appreciate any ones' experiences/comments regarding Prince P-Tip
Props, in particular their composite props. I plan on installing an
O-360. Also any comments about lead edge strips.
As a new subscriber and previous lurker, I greatly appreciate the
discussions on the RV-List. I also appreciate the excellent job done by
the Web Master and Matronics' support.
Thanks,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV8A-QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
I have sent a picture of jon's seat to a man on the list who has
graciously offered to put it on his web page for everyone to
see. He will let the list know as soon as it is viewable.
Thanks. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach angle & tank rib. |
Brian:
The ribs shipped with early kits had this problem. If you call Vans they
will replace them free (but only if you ask). You can use the ones you
have...flatten the indentations with a rubber mallet and use lots of
pro-seal underneath the access plate.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian
>
> Working on fuel tank parts, have cut out the T-405, and noticed that the
>T-shaped "dent" on the T-803 end rib prevents it laying flat against the
>web--...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL & floating wood? sinking feeling! |
>
>
><< Once we have all boiled our blocks of wood, where will we use them in the
> construction of our RVs? >>
>There you go. You can make a tail skid out of them.
>
Hmmmm!---- Let's see: After all you blockheads have boiled your wood......?
No, no, thats not it, How about? --- After all you wooden heads have boiled
your blocks.......?
I just know there's the makings of a great cheap shot in here somewhere.
Now if I said------ after all you------------.........*
A big smiley
Sorrey about the bandwidth folks >
>jim
>
* When dreams come true the sky's the limit *
jjewell(at)okanagan.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Steve,
I wasn't thinking on that last post. Some people don't have
access to the web to view websites. If you can't view websites,
let me know. I don't mind sending you a printout of jon's
seat. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig "G." Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Fly-in at Creswell, Oregon |
There will be a Eugene RV Builders Group Fly-In monday June 1st
at the Creswell Airport at 6:00 PM. As far as I know, anyone is invited.
Ross Mickey is the head of the builders group and he will have a
couple of bar-b-que grills working. It is bring your own grill items and pot
luck style dinner. RV motivational rides is the theme. Van's was to
send down the RV8A for us to see. But........
Craig Nelson
RV-6 serial # 25101
cgn(at)pond.net
Eugene, OR
wings finished!
Installing ailerons and flaps
__I__
_____O______
o/ \o
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Elevator trim |
<< In my search for drag that could easily be reduced I noticed that my trim
at top speed left the elevator slightly low with the counterweight sitting
above the top surface of the horizontal stabiliser by about 3/8th of an
inch... A weight and balance check eliminated the C of G possibility and I
experimented with a .040" shim on the front bolt down which lifted the leading
edge of the horizontal stab. The next test resulted in a lesser deflection of
only about 1/8th inch...The next step seems to be a shim of .063" but I
thought I would put this out for comment from the list before proceeding. I
have not seen any discussion on the subject before but has anyone else gone
through a similar trimming process? >>
Noel-
With just me and no baggage my 6A and the cg in the 22% MAC position, mine
also did this. I replaced the 1/8" thick blocks under the HS LE with 3/16"
blocks and now the tab is in trail during cruise. A change of .063" in these
blocks is about 0.4 on the HS.
Good luck with the race. Be sure and tell us how you did.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Elevator tip ribs |
David M Wentzell wrote:
>
>
> Greetings,
> The plans do not specifically say at what point to attach the 603, & 604
> tip ribs to each other. I think they should be attached together early -
> before attaching to the spar. Is this correct? - or did I miss something?
> Also, the 605 El. Horn seems to have a slightly different angle than
> that made by the rib, spar, & skin at that corner. I have not attached
> those elements together yet - Maybe (hopefully) that will not be the case.
> Any solutions to that?
> Thanks
> David Wentzell, Racine, WI (RV6)
David,
Assembly of the 603's and 604's was one of the first tasks I completed
when building the elevators. I built both sets at once. The 603's were
trimmed to fit the spars and then the rivet holes were marked(remember,
the counter weights need to clear the rivets) and drilled the 603 to the
604. Orndorff videos show the drilling procedure. Primed and assembled
them. Regarding the elevator horn, I put the skeleton in the
skin(jigged in v-blocks) and side gripped the 609(609 wasn't riveted to
spar yet) to the skin. I adjusted the 609 until it snugged up to the
horn(horn just sitting on spar and centered, not drilled yet) and also
had the proper edge distances on the skin rivets. Took the horn off and
marked the 609 as to where it contacts spar. Drilled 609 to spar.
Reassembled skeleton and put skin and skeleton back in jig and drilled
horn to spar first and then to 609. Both elevators were done this way
and worked well for me. There's probably an easier way, but everything
lined up real nice :-) Just make sure all the edge distances are there.
Good Luck
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | things look different here |
so shoot me down, this is material of questionable appropriateness (sp?)
11 am Sunday, gas up and blast out of Troutdale airport with my buddy
Brian. The sky is finally clear after weeks of rain. We head up the
Columbia Gorge as flight of two climbing to 8,000 feet. We pass Mt. Hood
in all her majesty. Mt Jefferson and clear down to Mt Shasta in CA is
visible. At 8,500' the GPS is indicating 195mph, the airspeed indicator
155. Thirteen minutes puts us abreast Mt Jefferson, also gleaming in white
splendor. Brian is at my 9 o'clock several hundred feet away. The
unpainted aluminum either glows or completely disappears into the
background. Three Fingered Jack, I've climbed that, Black Butte, that one
too, then the Three Sisters and Bachelor. Whoa, only 25 miles to Sun River
and I'm 5,000' too high. GPS says 205 now, yes! One, two we plunk down
into Sun River in the middle of Oregon's high desert just south of Bend. A
nice walk to stretch the legs, although it's been but an hour, and it's
fresh fish for lunch.
Sometimes we get too focused on tail tie downs or calibrated air speeds
and forget what a beautiful country we live in. An hour flight from my
house I can pass some of the most beautiful mountains, a river gorge, and
land in the midst of it without even a landing fee. I hope that by sharing
this with you it might last a bit longer in my memory. Just get them
flying, you'll be working on them anyways. I have been to the airport
almost every day since last October's maiden flight, leg fairings, nav-aid,
map box, you name it, they're works in progress. I'm rambling, sorry, it
was a damn fine day. kevin 6A 160 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
OK everyone, pictures and ordering information for Jon Johanson's RV
seats can be found on my web page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Please keep in mind that I am only hosting Jon's pictures, and am not
selling the seats myself. The email that Jon sent me with ordering
information is on the page as well.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dipstick-Oil type |
<< I have a Lyc. 0-360-A4M (used) mounted to a RV-6 that I just filled with
8 quarts oil using the slow process of "pre-oiling". However, my
dipstick is only showing 7quarts. Could I have the wrong dipstick for
that engine? Would the oil filter and engine cavities hold a quart of
oil? How much difference does in make on the dipstick whether the
aircraft is on all 3 wheels or flight level? >>
Between the oil filter, oil cooler and lines you have 1 qt semi-trapped.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: washer identification |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Could someone help me identify some washer callout numbers?
>On plan sheet number 19a there is a washer 5702-95-30. Plan calls
>for two of these washers to set next to the VA-146 bearing on the
>bellcrank. I have the book Standard Aircraft Handbook to identify
>parts and it is not listed.
>
>Also there are two washers 5702-75-60 that are placed between the
>hiem bearing on the bellcrank that I can not identify.
>
>If someone could describe the size of these washers I would be
>gratefull.
>
>Thank you in advance. Craig
>
Craig, I don't recall see a reply to you from anyone else so I'll try
and help. These are thin silver colored washers about the diameter of a
quarter that are used as a safety precaution to be sure that bell cranks
or rod end bearings stay in there relative positions should the bearing
portion fail. Thus preventing the likely hood of a control system
function being jammed.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
t to adjust than the elevators.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McLaughlJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL & floating wood? sinking feeling! |
< >
and
< < Hmmmm!---- Let's see: After all you blockheads have boiled your
wood......?
No, no, thats not it, How about? --- After all you wooden heads have boiled
your blocks.......?>>
Sorry, but I just can't resist: Let's get those wooden-block-
skidded, over-rotating, aft-cg'ed, non-tail-draggin', mogas-burnin',
rotary-powered, 737s outta here. :^)
Joel McLaughlin
-6 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dipstick-Oil type |
> I have a Lyc. 0-360-A4M (used) mounted to a RV-6 that I just filled with
> 8 quarts oil using the slow process of "pre-oiling". However, my
> dipstick is only showing 7quarts. Could I have the wrong dipstick for
> that engine? Would the oil filter and engine cavities hold a quart of
> oil?
I wouldn't lose sleep over it. I don't think the dipstick measurement is
perfectly precise on total volume. When I change the oil in my 0320 I put
in 7 qts. This shows up as about 6.5 after it has had a chance to drain
into the sump but before engine start. After engine start it is just
slightly below that. (maybe 6.4 qts - the oil filter doesn't hold much due
to it's sideways orientation)
My engine uses very little oil, and I've found that anything over 7 gets
blown out in short order, so I keep it between 6 and 6.75 qts.
>How much difference does in make on the dipstick whether the
> aircraft is on all 3 wheels or flight level?
That I couldn't tell you, because my airplane IS in level flight on all 3
wheels... :-)
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@bigskytel.com - http://www.bigskytel.com/~ebundy/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
Perhaps all 6A's should be fitted with -6 tail wheels in addition to the
nosewheel.... :-)
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL & floating wood? sinking feeling! |
<< Joel McLaughlin-6 Wings >>
So what engine have you chosen, and what kind of fuel have you deciided to
burn?
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Poulos <gpoulos(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A tail tie down |
> < Best fix of all, is put the nose wheel where it belongs......on the
> tail....oooh, who said that ? >
Want the final word on where that third wheel should go? Ask the tail-wheel
itself. Given the opportunity, it's always trying to put itself out front. It
wants to become a tricycle sooo bad... ;-)
Gary
(who counts many tail wheels amoung his friends)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Mehrhoff" <99789978(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid in RV-8? |
Yes it can be installed under seat.
Stan
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Date: Sunday, May 31, 1998 10:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: Navaid in RV-8?
>
>Listers:
>
>Anyone know if the Navaid servo can be installed under the seat in an RV-8,
>or must the servo be mounted in the wing (probably the right wing). I'm
>closing my wings up soon and need to know! Retrofitting to a closed wing
>doesn't sound like fun.
>
>Regards,
>Randy Lervold
>-8, #80500, wings
>Vancouver, WA
>Home Wing - Van's Air Force
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
Thanks, Jon, I thought someone would eventually read what I actually said.
Perhaps it's my Aussie accent which confuses. From my experience, carby
floats only just float. So fir will probably not duplicate the result. The
chap who brought to my attention that mogas could cause an engine to cut
through richness was once the chief engineer for General Motors out here
and also in charge of the Government aircraft factory at one time, so I
thought he just might know more than some others on the subject. His
explanation was, bubbles are lighter than petrol or carby floats, so when
the fuel boils rapidly, its density drops dramatically and the float sinks.
The reason I asked him was that the T18 which I now own had had an engine
failure on take using mogas and as witnesses said it was pouring black
smoke they claimed it could not be the mogas that caused it as vapour lock
should cause leaness ie. no smoke. As you can see the engineer disagreed
with them. As the engine had been rough on the previous take off, the pilot
did extensive run ups to check it but that probably just compounded the
problem. By the way the accident which followed was very serious and had
there not been help available immediately it would certainly have been
fatal. Regards, Brian.
> I got a wild hair and tried the block of wood. Despite untold looks of
> curiosity from my wife, I boiled a piece of Douglas fir and a piece of
oak.
> The fir stayed afloat, but the oak sank like a brick when it started to
boil
> heavily. FWIW.....
>
> Regards,
> Jon Elford
ker(at)utw.com)
> President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
> RV-8 80091 Fiddling with fuel tank. >>
>
> Brian:
>
> Van's tooled up and made a new root rib for the RV-8 wing tank. The
stiffener
> ring on the original rib got in the way of the tank cover doubler attach
ring.
> This, in combination with the tooling hole, made it difficult to place
the
> stiffener ring on the rib without fear of leaks later on. The T shaped
> stiffener bead was, I believe, omitted on the new rib. When I called and
> politely inquired, they sent me the new rib, free of charge. But I had to
ask
> for it... If you have not riveted your tank yet, I suggest that you
consider
> obtaining/installing this new root rib. By your serial #, I'd guess that
you
> have the old rib style, I did, and I'm 3 serial numbers later than you.
>
> I'd also suggest that you consider (I said consider here guys) using
sealed
> nutplates (NAS1473) inside the tank where the sender and cover attach
doubler
> plates are secured. They are expensive, however you will have less fuel
leak
> worries later on. On the other hand, many, many RV's have been built
without
> sealed nutplates which have had no leaks (yet?). But then, I did read
about a
> few builders that did have fuel leaks past the screw threads.... Van's is
> simply trying to save us builders a few bucks here, it's one of those
trade-
> offs I guess.
>
> Hope you like pro-seal...
>
> Hope this helps,
> Jon Ross 80094 Skinning fuselage
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net> |
| Subject: | AVGAS IN GENERAL |
I live about three miles from Merrymeeting field (the home patch) and was
sitting on the porch sipping an ice tea after mowing the dooryard when one
of the C-150 trainers went overhead. It coughed, I looked up, it coughed
some more, then it started sounding really bad. I got my private ticket in
the same plane and the same thing happened to me, a valve stuck - and a
valve has stuck in that aircraft every year since. We only have mogas at
Merrymeeting - You have to go to the big city to get real gas. It's good
training I suppose, but I run 100LL exclusively in my '46 Chief to avoid
just that problem, and do.
Now I'm no expert, but we here in Maine have and additive called MTBE
inserted into our mogas which may cause this problem. We have MTBE to
offset the pollutants that waft up from NH, NY and Mass. Personally, I
think it'd just be easier to turn 'em away at the entrance to the Maine
turnpike.
My personal moral to the story: Auto fuel is for autos, aviation fuel is
for airplanes, and flatlanders should stay home in the summer.
These opinions are my own
Any offense taken is entirely intentional
Nick Knobil
#80549
Wings on Wait
Merrymeeting Field
Bowdoinham, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jbalbierer(at)nysyr.ang.af.mil |
| Subject: | RV-6 Instruction by CFI in a Factory RV-6 |
The 1998 Northeast RV Forum Planning Committee will arrange for this
instruction if there is enough interest.
1. Mike Segar is amenable to instruction October 6, 7, 8, 1998 at Oswego
County Airport(FZY) just north of Syracuse, NY. We must have at least ten
pilots signed up but there is room approximately 18, one hour sessions.
2. The 4th Annual Northeast RV Forum itself is September 12th followed by
a Fly in
Breakfast on the 13th. We expect to share short pleasure rides again at
the Forum (55 last year) - but these, of course, can't compare with
instruction by an experienced instructor specializing in builders and
pilots of RV's - bring your log book.
3. Mike is FAA approved for the factory RV-6. He has helped Van at Sun'
n' Fun and Oshkosh for a number of years and he makes a somewhat brief
"road show" trip around to instruct. Note: this is not his "day time
job" and he has limited time for it. He will be coming to Oswego from
three days of instruction in Tennessee.
4. Other "high performance" builders would be eligible for this
instruction too.
5. This will be a first come, first served opportunity.
6. Since our RV Forum Flyer should be going in the mail soon, if you
want to take a lesson, e-mail (drmotorhd(at)aol.com), telephone
(315:469-3763), or write immediately to:
Bill Hodge, 1998 RV Forum Chairman
110 Orchard Avenue
Nedrow, New York 13120
7. If there is sufficient interest to "launch", we may then ask for a
Deposit of say $50 in order to raise our level of assurance. We, The
Committee, and Mike have time and money at risk if we attempt this
venture.
8. Dates to remember for RV interest at Oswego County Airport: 12 & 13
Sept 98- 4th Annual RV Forum. 6, 7, & 8 October 98(middle of the week
days): Instruction with Mike Segar and the factory RV-6.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | -4 &-8 underwing air inlet |
<< Jon,
Curious as to where on the lower wing skin you are mounting this inlet?
Any possibility you might pick up engine exhaust through this "fresh air
duct", or is it located far enough out on the wing to avoid exhaust flow?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>>
Mike, and others:
The underwing inlet using the SV-kit was my idea. I showed this to Bill
Benedict at Copperstate '93- I had it on my -4. Lo and behold, it shows up on
the -8! (except on the right side) The scoop is mounted outside the wingwalk
ribs, centered in that bay. I haven't found exhaust to be a problem. Mine is
in the left wing, where I figure the most pressure is while on the ground. The
front edge of the cut out is 7 3/4" from the fwd edge of the main skin on the
-8 (I use a 4" measurement). The factory engineers report no doubler is
necessary, altho I use one in my installations.
I'll tell ya, this thing blows a LOT of air for the backseater.
It can be installed as a retro-fit easily.
See the recent RVator for a cap for the eyeball vent.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
| Subject: | RE: New bucking tool |
I always prided myself on having a fairly complete assortment of tools
to build the RV6 with. Not much fancy stuff but pretty much all the
essentials.
This weekend I needed to buck a few rivets inside the canopy rail and
just did not have a bucking bar that would fit in there. I decided to
try my 4" no hole yoke for my avery hand tool and must report that that
thing works absolutely great as a bucking bar especially for -3 rivets.
It can fit almost anywhere you can get your fingers into, is easily
aligned and held and does not make a mess with the surrounding skin. Of
course as bucking bars go, it's a bit on the pricey side. Just wanted
to past on some tool experimentation to yall!
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A, Ronaoke, VA
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
The rotors of a Mazda rotory move around the eccentric shaft (crankshaft) on a
set
of gears such that the eccentric shaft rotates 3 times for each 360 degree
rotation of the rotor. If the rotor is rotating at 2000 rpm the eccentric shaft
is rotating at 6000 rpm. If the rotor is rotating at 1500 rpm the eccentric shaft
is rotating at 4500 rpm, etc.
Ed Anderson RV-6A with a Mazda 13B installed
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
QmaxLLC(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> The rotor turns at 1/3 the output shaft.
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla
> >>
> Duhh,
>
> Sorry, typo. Thas what I meant. That's why the question.
>
> So what's the answer?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
<< To refresh people's minds, the formula allows quick and accurate
determination of TAS, wind speed and direction using GPS by flying three
successive tracks (not headings) 90 degrees to each other, noting the
ground speed and then making a calculation.
People on the list quote performance many different ways, IAS, CAS, TAS
etc., often using uncalibrated ASIs. As a result comparisons are almost
impossible to make. Performance comparisons would be a lot more useful if
people quoted TAS obtained this way.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto >>
I used this formula last week doing speed calibration checks on my system. I
wondered about using "Tracks" or "Headings". Every post I could find in the
archives related to using aircraft heading. Every check I did at cruise speeds
came out 10 mph faster than what my airspeed indicator showed when corrected
for pressure altitude and OAT. I wonder how much difference it makes? I'm
going to go out and try running them again, but this time using aircraft track
90 degrees apart instead of aircraft heading.
I took the liberty of highlighting the words "tracks, not headings" from
Rons original post. Ron, I hope you don't mind.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Starting max gross wght, and aft CG tests!
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Broken Arrow, OK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robin.y.wessel(at)exgate.tek.com |
| Subject: | Cherry Rivet application |
Thanks for all of your suggestions about rivets
It only took me a few minutes to drill out a dozen rivets from the
elevator so I could get my longeron yoke in to squeeze the control arm on
with some std 1/8 rivets
thanks
Robin Wessel
RV-6A
Ann Arbor, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
>> The fir stayed afloat, but the oak sank like a brick when it started to
>>boil heavily.
>> Jon Elford
>His explanation was, bubbles are lighter than petrol or carby floats, so when
>the fuel boils rapidly, its density drops dramatically and the float sinks.
>The reason I asked him was that the T18 which I now own had had an engine
>failure on take using mogas and as witnesses said it was pouring black
>smoke they claimed it could not be the mogas that caused it as vapour lock
>should cause leaness ie. no smoke.
>Brian.
I would suggest that the fuel boiling in the fuel lines raises the pressure
high enough to force the float off its seat. This rush of fuel over fills
the float bowl and slops out into the intake. I have seen the fuel
pressure gauge pegged when making a quick turn around using autofuel. My
answer has always been to run the engine long enogh to return the FP to
normal before taking off. This can often be accomplished by taxiing out to
the run up pad. The best procedure is to avoid this entirely by opening
the oil door on the cowl after landing and leave it open until preflight
oil level check just prior to engine start. This removes heat from the
accessory area of the cowl and pulls cooler air in the bottom of the cowl
by thermal siphon as the hot air escapes out the top. Works for me....
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Instruction by CFI in a Factory RV-6 |
> Mike is FAA approved for the factory RV-6. He Makes a somewhat brief
>"road show" trip around to instruct. Note: this is not his "day time
>job" and he has limited time for it. He will be coming to Oswego from
>three days of instruction in Tennessee.
Yes, Mike will be in the Nashville, TN area on October 2 - 4 (Fri-Sun) for
our annual fly-in. We have more or less turned this event into an RV
fly-in, since we have as many RV's show up as everything else combined (35
last two years).
We will post another note closer to show time, however, if anyone is
interested in some stick time with Mike, E-Mail me off list. We will have
18 one hour slots available starting at 9 AM each day. Last I heard, Mike
was charging $65 an hour total.
Fly-in will be at the Lebanon, TN. airport (M54), twenty miles due east of
Nashville. Transportation, lodging, and meals will be available. As always,
weather permitting. So, if the weather turns to crap during your turn to
fly, you will more than likely loose your time unless Mike can reschedule
you. Just be prepared for this possibility.
Any questions, drop me a line.
Dave Hudgins
davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Stiffners |
I put the RTV in all of my control surfaces just because I could not
find a good reason to not put it there. I could understand the fatigue
issue which prompted use of the RTV in the elevators. Balance is a
concern (just don't go crazy with the RTV usage) but I was more
concerned with a cracked control surface.
Just my opinion.
Bryan Jones, Pearland, Texas
RV-8 80313, attaching empenage to fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott A. Jordan [SMTP:SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com]
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 1998 9:20 AM
> To: RV List; RV-8 Short list; RV Tech Support
> Subject: RV-List: Aileron Stiffners
>
>
>
> I am completing my -8 aileron and wonder if I should put a dab of RTV
> at
> the end of the stiffners as is done on the rudder and elevators. It
> seems
> logical that this should be done since it is similar construction &
> material size, though the controls on the -8 at .020 are heavier than
> other models and probably less prone to cracking.
>
> I can't find anything specifically saying to do or not do this on the
> ailerons but I am reluctant to change the weight and or balance of a
> control surface without specifically being told it is OK.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott A. Jordan
> -8 #331
> N733JJ (res)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Boeimg Surplus Warehouse |
Does anyone know the exact address of the Boeing Surplus Warehouse in
Seattle or Renton. I would like to go there on Wednesday. Do you need
to have a car to get there from the nearest airport?
Mike Denman
"Sweat the small shit, pay attention to the details!
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A OAT probe location |
Thanks Jon,
I'll consider trying that though as you say it may be hard to implement
since the wings are already done.
Mike
>
>
><< Jon,
> Curious as to where on the lower wing skin you are mounting this inlet?
> Any possibility you might pick up engine exhaust through this "fresh air
> duct", or is it located far enough out on the wing to avoid exhaust flow?
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4 fuse
> willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil >>
>
>Mike:
>
>The RV-8 drawings now show the rear seat fresh air NACA inlet installed in
the
>lower right wing just ouside the wingwalk area doubler ... that is, the next
>bay out. Most builders are simply using pro-seal to attach the inlet to the
>skin. It's a bit more difficult to do if your wing is complete, but it can be
>done. I'm quite sure that this will avoid exaust flow and engine cooling exit
>air, offering accurate OAT readings.
>
>Jon Ross RV-80094 - Skinning fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
I don't wish to start any rumors, but I heard from a usually reliable source
that the RV-8 wing spar failed at the outboard fuel tank joint. Beyond this I
will not speculate.
Hoping that Van's will post info soon,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noble, Jack S" <Jack.Noble(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Boeimg Surplus Warehouse |
Boeing Surplus is roughly 6 miles south of Renton at 20651 84th Ave.
Kent, WA
Take East Valley Highway south out of Renton; take 212th St exit; go
west to 84th Ave; go north 4 blocks and you're there.
Jack Noble
767-400 Wing Structures
Boeing Commercial Airplanes
Phone 425-342-5596
FAX 425-342-7251
email: jack.s.noble(at)boeing.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Stiffners |
________________________________________________________________________________
the method of adjusting a "wing heavy" condition is to tweak the radius on
the trailing edge of the ailerons. If you put much RTV in there I would
think this would interfere with this process. Plus Scott McDaniels indicates
in his post that since the chord is shorter than that of the elevators or
rudder it is not needed.
I put it in my elevators and rudder but for these reasons will not put it in
my ailerons.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, wings
Vancouver, WA
Home Wing - Van's Air Force
>
>I put the RTV in all of my control surfaces just because I could not
>find a good reason to not put it there. I could understand the fatigue
>issue which prompted use of the RTV in the elevators. Balance is a
>concern (just don't go crazy with the RTV usage) but I was more
>concerned with a cracked control surface.
>
>Just my opinion.
>
>Bryan Jones, Pearland, Texas
>RV-8 80313, attaching empenage to fuselage
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott A. Jordan [SMTP:SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 1998 9:20 AM
>> To: RV List; RV-8 Short list; RV Tech Support
>> Subject: RV-List: Aileron Stiffners
>>
>>
>>
>> I am completing my -8 aileron and wonder if I should put a dab of RTV
>> at
>> the end of the stiffners as is done on the rudder and elevators. It
>> seems
>> logical that this should be done since it is similar construction &
>> material size, though the controls on the -8 at .020 are heavier than
>> other models and probably less prone to cracking.
>>
>> I can't find anything specifically saying to do or not do this on the
>> ailerons but I am reluctant to change the weight and or balance of a
>> control surface without specifically being told it is OK.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott A. Jordan
>> -8 #331
>> N733JJ (res)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Boeimg Surplus Warehouse |
>Does anyone know the exact address of the Boeing Surplus Warehouse in
>Seattle or Renton. I would like to go there on Wednesday. Do you need
>to have a car to get there from the nearest airport?
>Mike Denman
>"Sweat the small shit, pay attention to the details!
>RV6
Yes, you'll need a car, it's about a ten minute drive. You can get complete
directions at www.boeing.com/assocproducts/surplus/map.html
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, wings
Vancouver, WA
Home Wing - Van's Air Force
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John M. Denman" <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Boeimg Surplus Warehouse |
Noble, Jack S wrote:
>
>
> Boeing Surplus is roughly 6 miles south of Renton at 20651 84th Ave.
> Kent, WA
> Take East Valley Highway south out of Renton; take 212th St exit; go
> west to 84th Ave; go north 4 blocks and you're there.
>
> Jack Noble
> 767-400 Wing Structures
> Boeing Commercial Airplanes
> Phone 425-342-5596
> FAX 425-342-7251
> email: jack.s.noble(at)boeing.com
>
Thanks for the timely input.
Mike Denman
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Stiffners |
One of the major reasons NOT to put RTV in the airlerons is that you will no
longer be able to squeeze/un-squeeze the trailing edge radius to effect
trimming out for a heavy wing condition. This is a common thing to do and
is very effective. This has been discussed and recommended by Van's. Also,
If you end up with a bulbous trailing edge on your aileron with RTV in it,
you are in for some trouble. A result of this is commonly described as
"aileron snatch" and has gotten the attention of more than one experienced
RV pilot.
Before making any changes/additions to any structure or procedure it would
probably be a good idea to thoroughly research it. This is just one
example.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>I put the RTV in all of my control surfaces just because I could not
>find a good reason to not put it there. I could understand the fatigue
>issue which prompted use of the RTV in the elevators. Balance is a
>concern (just don't go crazy with the RTV usage) but I was more
>concerned with a cracked control surface.
>
>Just my opinion.
>
>Bryan Jones, Pearland, Texas
>RV-8 80313, attaching empenage to fuselage
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Scott A. Jordan [SMTP:SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 1998 9:20 AM
>> To: RV List; RV-8 Short list; RV Tech Support
>> Subject: RV-List: Aileron Stiffners
>>
>>
>>
>> I am completing my -8 aileron and wonder if I should put a dab of RTV
>> at
>> the end of the stiffners as is done on the rudder and elevators. It
>> seems
>> logical that this should be done since it is similar construction &
>> material size, though the controls on the -8 at .020 are heavier than
>> other models and probably less prone to cracking.
>>
>> I can't find anything specifically saying to do or not do this on the
>> ailerons but I am reluctant to change the weight and or balance of a
>> control surface without specifically being told it is OK.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Scott A. Jordan
>> -8 #331
>> N733JJ (res)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
>
> to a text book
> > landing the kind of which I never can do.....................But....I
can
> > still fly a bit of combat
>
> where do you live? I wanna shot at you too! Haven't found anyone around
> here to have fun with. kevin 6A 160 hrs.
>
Come, come ye warriors to us old dogs who are but ghosts of the time of air
combat as it was so long ago. We are old now and the lines in the faces are
not just from the oxygen masks. Gracing the face of one of our number is
the crease mark of a .50 caliber, courtesy of a young B17 tail-gunner, but
that is for another day. Some of us are from the Luftwaffe and although of
late we flew ME108, not 109s, we are now mounted on RVs. We are in the
Coast and Cascade range, North of Seattle, North of the border. We also
have the retractable 4, fast and fair of face.
You will need drop tanks to come this far to engage the "Abbeville
Kids" and when you cross the border, radar will pick you up, so you must
fly low, there, down low over the river that we may spot you from where we
wait. Come up, ...up to meet us where we wait among the peaks and high sun
and cumulus. We'll be glad to see you...and fear not..we do not shoot to
kill, as we never liked to kill a fellow flier, just down his craft that he
may fly again.
" I am bloodied but unbeaten,
I am weary and will lie me down
to rest awhile, and when the day shall
dawn anew, I will rise and fight again".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO" <lewisth(at)af.pentagon.mil> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
________________________________________________________________________________
"RV-8 Prototype Crashes
The prototype Vans RV-8 experimental reportedly crashed last Sunday
during a demonstration flight near Ripley, California. According to a
preliminary FAA report, the single suffered an in-flight structural failure
and broke up, killing both aboard. Early information indicates a factory
representative and a prospective purchaser -- neither of whom were
identified -- were aboard for a demonstration flight. There are reports of
approximately 1,000 RV-8 kits in various stages of construction and
builders tell us they are apprehensive."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Avgas in General |
I believe there is also a test for JET-A in avgas. (remember when???)
hal
>
> With such extensive test equipment as a mason jar and a magic marker one
> can test for alcohol in *EVERY* load of fuel.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | m.talley(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Boeing Surplus Warehouse |
writes:
>
>
>Does anyone know the exact address of the Boeing Surplus Warehouse in
>Seattle or Renton. I would like to go there on Wednesday. Do you
>need
>to have a car to get there from the nearest airport?
>Mike Denman
Boeing Surplus is located at S 208th and 84th S in Kent. Their hours are
10 to 5 Tues thru Fri and Sat 9 to 4. Their phone # is 425-393-4060. They
are about 5 miles north of the Auburn airport, 8 miles south of Renton
airport and about 10 miles east, southeast of SEA. Boeing employees and
retirees get a discount with id. As I remember they put new stuff out
early in the week so it's best to go Tues or Weds.
Mike Talley
Arlington WA
RV-6 about to seal the tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Angiulo <mikeang(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
That sounds consistent with where the prototype wing failed during
destructive load testing.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 01, 1998 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Crash
I don't wish to start any rumors, but I heard from a usually reliable source
that the RV-8 wing spar failed at the outboard fuel tank joint. Beyond this
I
will not speculate.
Hoping that Van's will post info soon,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Stiffners, and more |
<< One of the major reasons NOT to put RTV in the airlerons is that you will
no
longer be able to squeeze/un-squeeze the trailing edge radius to effect
trimming out for a heavy wing condition. This is a common thing to do and
is very effective. This has been discussed and recommended by Van's. Also,
If you end up with a bulbous trailing edge on your aileron with RTV in it,
you are in for some trouble. A result of this is commonly described as
"aileron snatch" and has gotten the attention of more than one experienced
RV pilot.
Before making any changes/additions to any structure or procedure it would
probably be a good idea to thoroughly research it. This is just one
example.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>>
No snips, as it is all relevant.
I *assume* (uh-oh!) the builder in question put RTV only at the ends of the
stiffeners, as opposed to filling the entire trailing edge. I see no potential
problem (or gain, for that matter) with this, as the stiffeners usually hold
the TE radius to the correct (or very nearly so) radius. The bulging occurs
*between* the stiffeners, where I wouldn't expect to find any RTV. The ol'
squeezing trick should work OK- just go easy- a little bit at a time.
A sidenote:
I adjusted a customer's h stab (Rocket). He didn't have enough down trim to go
past 200 MPH with a pax, or 225 solo. After the h stab was adjusted to the
proper angle
(the Rocket uses a 3/16" shim under the fwd spar of the h stab), the trim was
more correct, and he picked up 12 KTS!! There seems to be no small benefit
from having the airframe tuned correctly. Alas, all was still not well in
Rocketland. He now had a stick shake passing thru 250 MPH. Not good, Mav. I
could see a bit of bulging in the elev trailing edge (I had seen this on
previous visits as well). I felt that we had gotten the incidence angle
correct, but another Rocketeer suggested the trim tab might be causing some of
this shake. The tab was tight- no play. I commented on the unsightly TE
bulging, and recommended fixing that first (easy, fast, cheap). POOF! No more
shake- the a/c behaved normally up to 275 MPH indicated. BTW- this empennage
has no RTV at the stiffeners.
Moral of the story? Watch what the heck you (and others) are doing or have
done! Don't ignore those trailing edges (like I did- it was a slight bulge),
or any other recommended control sfc profiles for that matter. I'd say that if
the elev had this sort of effect, maybe the -6 drivers might pay v close
attention the their rudder profiles, as these birds seem to like to wag their
tails (yes- I know- they're happy!). Do any of you (-6 drivers) have comments
on the rudder profile? Has anyone else had the elev shake I described?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/9805.htm
Don Mack RV-6A
-----Original Message-----
Moe, & other listers
the NSTB can be found at ( faa.gov/avr/aai/iirform.htm )
if any one has address to other sites let me know
scott reviere
winging it in Tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Stiffners, and more |
. I'd say that if
>the elev had this sort of effect, maybe the -6 drivers might pay v close
>attention the their rudder profiles, as these birds seem to like to wag their
>tails (yes- I know- they're happy!). Do any of you (-6 drivers) have comments
>on the rudder profile? Has anyone else had the elev shake I described?
>
>Check six!
>Mark
Mark
Under some conditions, I am getting a little tail wagging the dog
syndrome. Before the next flight I intend on squeezing the trailing edge of
the rudder slightly, I will report any differences.
Tom martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Stiffners |
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron Stiffners
>
>
>
>From what I understand once we're flying our planes (won't THAT be great!)
>the method of adjusting a "wing heavy" condition is to tweak the radius on
>the trailing edge of the ailerons. If you put much RTV in there I would
>think this would interfere with this process. Plus Scott McDaniels
indicates
>in his post that since the chord is shorter than that of the elevators or
>rudder it is not needed.
>
>I put it in my elevators and rudder but for these reasons will not put it
in
>my ailerons.
>
>FWIW,
>Randy Lervold
>-8, #80500, wings
May 26, 1998 - June 01, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-et