RV-Archive.digest.vol-eu
June 01, 1998 - June 08, 1998
>Vancouver, WA
>Home Wing - Van's Air Force
>
>
I used Dow Corning 737 Neutral Cure sealant. I did not bend my rudder TE
radius enough on the first attempt and the sealant did not interfere with
altering the radius on the second attempt. It had cured for several months
by then and had reached terminal durometer (hardness). It is not a problem.
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
Today on short final I applied 40 degrees of flaps. On landing I
went to retract the flaps and no go! Back to the hangar where I found a
blown fuse. Has anyone else had this problem! It was quite gusty and my
indicated speeds were under 100mph, perhaps the motor kicked out on a gust?
After replacing the fuse the system cycled normally, I am looking
for some suggestions of things to look for. I am using the suggested 5 amp fuse.
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -4 &-8 underwing air inlet |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Mike, and others:
>
>The underwing inlet using the SV-kit was my idea. I showed this to
>Bill
>Benedict at Copperstate '93- I had it on my -4. Lo and behold, it
>shows up on
>the -8! (except on the right side) The scoop is mounted outside the
>wingwalk
>ribs, centered in that bay. I haven't found exhaust to be a problem.
>Mine is
>in the left wing, where I figure the most pressure is while on the
>ground. The
>front edge of the cut out is 7 3/4" from the fwd edge of the main skin
>on the
>-8 (I use a 4" measurement). The factory engineers report no doubler
>is
>necessary, altho I use one in my installations.
>
>I'll tell ya, this thing blows a LOT of air for the backseater.
>
>It can be installed as a retro-fit easily.
>
>See the recent RVator for a cap for the eyeball vent.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
>
>
Mark,
It was a great idea you had; except I was the one who talked engineering
into letting me try it because I had seen it on some other RV's before
Bill saw yours at Copper State. I don't think he was even in the loop on
this one.
Not that any of this really matters though. I really posted to your
message to point out that Van's aircraft has a wealth of
engineer/research going on all over the world and we do take note of a
lot of the good ideas that you builders come up with. And sometimes they
even get incorporated into kit improvements/enhancements. It has
happened many times over the years.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Michigan Wing Fly-in 6/7 |
| From: | Kate and/or Jack <jgh(at)iavbbs.com> |
All listers and others interested in Van's aircraft are invited to attend
the next meeting of the Michigan Wing of Van's Air Force which will be
held at 12 noon on Sunday June 7th at the Experimental Aircraft
Association facility at Dalton Airfield (3DA) Flushing Michigan.
This very attractive field is located approximately 6 miles NNW of the
main Flint Mi airport and has a 2500' paved 18-36 runway in addition to
an 1800' 9-27 grass strip.
About 10 RV's and a number of other aircraft (including a helicopter)
generally attend if the weather is good.
Pot luck meal usually starts after everybody has arrived and the first
round of hanger flying has died down so you might want to bring a dish to
pass. Feel free to ask if you need more information.
Jack & Katy Haviland
jgh(at)iavbbs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flap question |
Tom Martin wrote:
>
> Today on short final I applied 40 degrees of flaps. On landing
> I
> went to retract the flaps and no go! Back to the hangar where I found
> a
> blown fuse. Has anyone else had this problem! It was quite gusty and
> my
> indicated speeds were under 100mph, perhaps the motor kicked out on a
> gust?
> After replacing the fuse the system cycled normally, I am
> looking
> for some suggestions of things to look for. I am using the suggested 5
> amp fuse.
>
> Tom Martin
>
>
I guess this would be a vote in favor of circuit breakers vs. fuses. ( I
hate to bring up an old thread)Ed Cole
Cupertino, CA
RV6A Fuselage...ready to skin!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap question |
Make sure you have no binding in the flaps or linkage.
I had to remedy things like dragging nylon actuator guide block
and tight out of line torque tube bearings while constructing my
RV4. I have had no problems what so ever.
RV273sb CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McLaughlJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL & floating wood? sinking feeling! |
<>
None chosen yet. Probably Lyc. O-320. May burn some mogas on one side. And
I am (attempting to) following development of rotary conversions. ( Very
impressed with turbo RX-7 I once had) Hope everyone's up for the occasional
humor. I know I enjoy it. Happy building!
Joel McLaughlin
-6 Wings
N.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
Has anyone had anyone had experience using "Tite Seal" compound on the fuel
tank inspection plates and the sender mount plate? How well does it work?
Tommy
Finishing 6-A Wings
Ridgetop, Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | HS608 rivetting problem |
I have the exact problem with my HS606 this past Sunday. I don't have a
feeler gauge, but could see light between the two surfaces that were
perfectly flush before I squeezed the rivets. I am still debating on what
to do about it, and have stopped riveting ribs for the time being.
I haven't seen a reply to this post yet. Anyone have any input?
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
RV-8 emp.
Advance, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 1998 7:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: HS608 rivetting problem
This should be easy, but I seem to be able to make anything
complicated. I'm riveting the HS ribs to the rear spar. My problem is that
when I squeeze the rivet it seems to lift the flange of the rib slightly so
that it's no longer flush with the spar.
There's only 2 holes in the flange and I had the other one clecoed.
I also had a C-clamp holding the flange against the spar in the center and
an elastic cord pressing the top of the hs608 down onto the spar. The
flange looked flush. After the rivet was squeezed, the flange has sort of
"flared" up, I guess from the rivet expanding into the hole. I have
squeezed 3 rivets so far in the two hs608s. Two of them show this very
obvious gap which I can get a .012 or .013 feeler gauge into all the way to
the rivet. The third rivet "looks OK" but using the feeler gauge shows it
has a .003 or .004 gap also.
Is this acceptable? (Sure doesn't sound like it.) Should I drill
these out & try again? I can't think what I could do to better hold the
flange in contact with the rear spar, though.
Would using the rivet gun instead of the squeezer reduce this
effect? The bucking bar needs a lot of room around the rivet and I'd have
to remove the C-clamp to fit it in there, so it might just make it worse.
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: things look different here |
> Sometimes we get too focused on tail tie downs or calibrated air speeds
>and forget what a beautiful country we live in. An hour flight from my
>house I can pass some of the most beautiful mountains, a river gorge, and
>land in the midst of it without even a landing fee.
Kavin, thanks for sharing. Yes we live in the MOST beautiful country!!
Stories like yours gives us earth bound rivet pounders new enthusiasm. I
will be back in the Oregan skies one of these years.
PS Dump question of the week: What do you'll do along the coastal areas in
those gloomy winter months?
Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:BFL Fly-In (info needed) |
Can someone post any info on the RV Fly-In this weekend
Thanks
Dan Helm
-4 finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: HS608 rivetting problem |
I had the same problems, and brought the parts to a builder who was
almost done with his 6. He gave me a funn look and asked me what the
"extra" flange did to hold the rib on. I didn't have an answer, and
neither did he. He told me it was nothing to worry about. In an
application like that where you are smashing rivets into such a narrow
strip in a straight line, you are bound to have this effect.
BTW, just another reminder, Jon Johanson's seat pics and ordering info
are on my web page. They are really nice looking seats, and I'm kinda
glad I'm not at that point yet on my project because I'd be breaking out
the credit card that's already glowing red from overuse.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> I have the exact problem with my HS606 this past Sunday. I don't have a
> feeler gauge, but could see light between the two surfaces that were
> perfectly flush before I squeezed the rivets. I am still debating on what
> to do about it, and have stopped riveting ribs for the time being.
>
> I haven't seen a reply to this post yet. Anyone have any input?
>
> Larry
> larry(at)bowen.com
> RV-8 emp.
> Advance, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 1998 7:43 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: HS608 rivetting problem
>
>
> This should be easy, but I seem to be able to make anything
> complicated. I'm riveting the HS ribs to the rear spar. My problem is that
> when I squeeze the rivet it seems to lift the flange of the rib slightly so
> that it's no longer flush with the spar.
>
> There's only 2 holes in the flange and I had the other one clecoed.
> I also had a C-clamp holding the flange against the spar in the center and
> an elastic cord pressing the top of the hs608 down onto the spar. The
> flange looked flush. After the rivet was squeezed, the flange has sort of
> "flared" up, I guess from the rivet expanding into the hole. I have
> squeezed 3 rivets so far in the two hs608s. Two of them show this very
> obvious gap which I can get a .012 or .013 feeler gauge into all the way to
> the rivet. The third rivet "looks OK" but using the feeler gauge shows it
> has a .003 or .004 gap also.
>
> Is this acceptable? (Sure doesn't sound like it.) Should I drill
> these out & try again? I can't think what I could do to better hold the
> flange in contact with the rear spar, though.
>
> Would using the rivet gun instead of the squeezer reduce this
> effect? The bucking bar needs a lot of room around the rivet and I'd have
> to remove the C-clamp to fit it in there, so it might just make it worse.
>
> ---
> Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: things look different here |
Hmm, never could understand all that beautiful scenery crap. Here in
scenic NJ, I spend more time making sure I don't get hit by a 747 into
Philly Int or a C130 out of Mcguire. Who's got time to look at the
scenery? Maybe it would be a little easier if it wasn't so smoggy all
the time, but that helps hide all those ugly factorys on the ground
anyway.
--
Moe Colontonio (wishing I lived in Nevada)
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Lothar Klingmuller wrote:
>
>
> > Sometimes we get too focused on tail tie downs or calibrated air speeds
> >and forget what a beautiful country we live in. An hour flight from my
> >house I can pass some of the most beautiful mountains, a river gorge, and
> >land in the midst of it without even a landing fee.
>
> Kavin, thanks for sharing. Yes we live in the MOST beautiful country!!
> Stories like yours gives us earth bound rivet pounders new enthusiasm. I
> will be back in the Oregan skies one of these years.
>
> PS Dump question of the week: What do you'll do along the coastal areas in
> those gloomy winter months?
>
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cjfranz(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: HS608 rivetting problem |
Larry, I ran into a similar problem riveting the wing ribs to the rear
spar, when squeezing the rivet caused the rib to bulge away from the
spar. Tried putting the rivet through the rib and then the spar, so the
bucktail on the rivet would be on the larger spar surface, and the
manufactured head on the rivet would be against the thinner rib flange.
Seemed to take care of the problem. Maybe you could try the same method
on the elevator.
Carl
RV6 working on the fuselage
Pinckney MI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap question |
Install a slow blow circuit breaker. I have PB switch CB's and regular CB's
for everything that has a switch on the unit itself. This works very well.
Jim Cone
RV-6A Flying Great!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Butcher <rbutch(at)inreach.com> |
| Subject: | Re: things look different here |
kevin lane wrote:
>
>
> so shoot me down, this is material of questionable appropriateness (sp?)
>
> 11 am Sunday, gas up and blast out of Troutdale airport with my buddy
> Brian. The sky is finally clear after weeks of rain. We head................
>
Kevin... Thanks for "reminding me" why we really fly these things called
airplanes!
Ron Butcher
Turlock, Calif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | 6/6A Fuselage Jig for Sale: $50 |
Friend just pulled his fuselage out of jig this week and wants to sell
it. He's moving fast--jig was built just two months ago. It's regular
lumber, built per plans. Location: right on I-25 halfway between El
Paso and Albuquerque. $50
call Pete 505/894-6701 Truth or Consequences, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <TBronson(at)compuserve.com> |
Jon Elford wrote:
"Perhaps all 6A's should be fitted with -6 tail wheels in addition to the
nosewheel.... :-)"
Now, I have to admit, I considered a similar post myself - I'm only
surprised it took so long.
All kidding aside, I was looking at a Fouga Magister (European military jet
trainer) and noticed that it incorporates a small wheel into the ventral
strake under the aft fuselage. Something like this:
-------O------- (excuse my poor computer "art")
I would think that a relatively small wheel, say, the size of the wheels
on office chair casters, would suffice to avoid those embarassing scraping
noises if you drag the tail. Just a thought from a not-yet builder.
Tim
Pittsburgh
RV-8 starts this fall
I'll eat Grape Nuts, but I draw the line at boiling wood!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Stiffners |
<< One of the major reasons NOT to put RTV in the airlerons is that you will
no
longer be able to squeeze/un-squeeze the trailing edge radius to effect
trimming out for a heavy wing condition. >>
I hate to disagree with Les, but......IME the amount that you must squeeze the
TE is so small and the RTV is so soft that this really isn't much of a
concern.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap question |
<< After replacing the fuse the system cycled normally, I am looking
for some suggestions of things to look for. I am using the suggested 5 amp
fuse. >>
Try a slow-blow fuse next time.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: things look different here |
Lothar Klingmuller wrote:
>
>
> > Sometimes we get too focused on tail tie downs or calibrated air speeds
> >and forget what a beautiful country we live in. An hour flight from my
> >house I can pass some of the most beautiful mountains, a river gorge, and
> >land in the midst of it without even a landing fee.
>
> Kavin, thanks for sharing. Yes we live in the MOST beautiful country!!
> Stories like yours gives us earth bound rivet pounders new enthusiasm. I
> will be back in the Oregan skies one of these years.
>
> PS Dump question of the week: What do you'll do along the coastal areas in
> those gloomy winter months?
>
Get a motel on the beach and what the storm waters crash upon the rocks.
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: TOMMY E. WALKER <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 8:55 PM
Subject: RV-List: TITE SEAL
>
>Has anyone had anyone had experience using "Tite Seal" compound on the fuel
>tank inspection plates and the sender mount plate? How well does it work?
>
>Tommy
>Finishing 6-A Wings
>Ridgetop, Tennessee
>
>I used a thin coat of "medium" Tite Seal on the gaskets of both of them and
have had no leaks in 500hrs. I also used noncork gasket material. Ivan RV-4
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Lowrance/Nav-Aid coupling |
ok, I give up. The Nav-aid guys actually have never tried using the
Lowrance Airmap 300 to run their autopilot. Does anyone out there have
this arrangement working? Starting from the rounded side of the Lowrance
plug I grounded pin 1 and used pin 3 as the output which I fed into pin 8
of the nav-aid.(which contains the $150 board to handle hand-helds). On
the lowrance I turned on the NMEA version 2.0 output option and turned off
the Starlink DGPS and Magnavox stuff. I turned the RMC/RMB sentences on and
all the other sentences off. When I flip the autopilot switch to the left
(TK maybe?) nothing seems to happen. Flipped to the right in wingleveler
mode it works fine. The course/track switch doesn't seem to make any
difference either. The nav-aid guy told me the thing was transmitting
codes so a volt meter wouldn't work for checking. So now what? Free
rides. Fix this and I'll give you a free ride. Hopefully a west coaster
will solve this. kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< If the rotor is rotating at 2000 rpm the eccentric shaft
is rotating at 6000 rpm. If the rotor is rotating at 1500 rpm the eccentric
shaft
is rotating at 4500 rpm, etc. >>
Still no answer to the original question. And the question is.........
I'm tooling down the road in my RX7 at 4000 rpm....
What's the tachometer reading; the rotors or the shaft?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Okay, several people have expressed an interest in Jon's seats.
If ya'll are ready to order, let me know. I will see how many
people actually want to order and we can start getting the show
on the road. My idea was to have them sent to me (I live in the
new Orleans area), then repackage them and send them out to the
individual buyers via UPS. I don't believe UPS will cost too
much. My labor is cheap, too. (I had better say my labor is free
before too many ask.) I will see what kind of payment Jon can
handle. My visa loves to be exercised, if that is what he
requires. If he needs a money order, I may have to get the money
from everyone first. (That should tell you what one and a half
rv-4's are doing to my bank account!) If anyone has a different
or better idea, let us know, via the list. Thanks. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: HS608 rivetting problem |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>I have the exact problem with my HS606 this past Sunday. I don't have
>a
>feeler gauge, but could see light between the two surfaces that were
>perfectly flush before I squeezed the rivets. I am still debating on
>what
>to do about it, and have stopped riveting ribs for the time being.
>
>I haven't seen a reply to this post yet. Anyone have any input?
>
>
>Larry
>larry(at)bowen.com
>RV-8 emp.
>Advance, NC
>
>
Larry ( & Tom),
What you are describing is something that happens (to a varying degree
depending on the situation) some times when you squeeze rivets. It will
tend to pucker the material under the shop head of the rivet. As long as
the parts were tight together when you began squeezing the rivet, and the
rivet is proper formed, you have nothing to worry about.
Because of the problem you describe, The preferred orientation is always
to put the manufactured head on the thinner material. Unless there is a
particular reason for a different orientation (which there some times
is). In many cases the materials are the same thickness, then it wont
matter which way you put it. You are probably riveting ribs to the rear
horizontal stab. spar which because it looks nicer the manufactured heads
have traditionally been put on the back (out side) side of the spar.
Feel free to turn them around the other way if you want. You will
probably be happier with the results you get and know one will ever
notice the difference.
For some reason if you use a gun and a bucking bar you see much less of
this happening. So that would be another option also.
Final note, when we are talking about 2 or so rivets at each end of the
ribs in a structure like the stabilizers, a major function of them is to
hold the framework together while you get the skin put on it.
Most of the strength in these structures is from the 2 spars and the skin
itself.
(This is not license to be sloppy with these rivets, It just means minor
gaps and such wont have any negative effect on the final strength of the
structure in this case)
If the rivets them self look good, just keep on riveting!
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
I e-mailed jon again. I asked him what method of payment he
requires, are the seats attached to the fuselage in any way, do
you lose any legroom with them, exactly how many seats could go
in one box, and when could we expect them once they are ordered.
I will post his reply to the list. Thank you. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flap question (blown fuse) |
My C-150 will do that sometimes when on short final I drop the last 10
(from 30 to 40) and the rpm is back to idle. It uses a slo-blo style fuse.
The last 10 degrees is probably when the old motor is working hardest and
at idle I probably don't have full system voltage which also ups the
current draw.
>
> Today on short final I applied 40 degrees of flaps. On landing I
>went to retract the flaps and no go! Back to the hangar where I found a
>blown fuse.
Mike McGee N6358G
Vancouver, WA jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: AVGAS IN GENERAL |
Bob,
Sounds plausible when you are sitting on the ground engine off or idling,
but why should the fuel decide to boil in the heat sleaved lines which are
no where near the exhaust system when the fuel is under pressure in them
and at maximum flow rate. ie. 50 feet into the climb. The carby temp can
read very high on a hot day especially with a cross over exhaust so close
to it and no heat shield between them and the pressure is reduced. This
aircraft has a fuel pressure gauge and as he had had some power loss on the
previous flight then had it checked by an A&P then done extensive runups, I
would expect he would have been watching the instruments like a hawk. I
think the best bet if you can arrange it is to use avgas in the circuit and
mogas in cruise.
In Australia the main incentive to use mogas in Lycomings has been removed
as avgas is only about 5% dearer than mogas now.
Safe flying, Brian.
>
> I would suggest that the fuel boiling in the fuel lines raises the
pressure
> high enough to force the float off its seat. This rush of fuel over
fills
> the float bowl and slops out into the intake. I have seen the fuel
> pressure gauge pegged when making a quick turn around using autofuel. My
> answer has always been to run the engine long enogh to return the FP to
> normal before taking off. This can often be accomplished by taxiing out
to
> the run up pad.
>
> Bob Steward, A&P IA
> AA-1B N8978L
> AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
<< builders tell us they are apprehensive. >>
Well what a bunch of B.S. that is. I am not in the least bit apprehensive.
Where did that come from?
For those who said something like this, I have a question. How much do you
want for your kit? Make it worth my while.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
I would like to hear from anyone with any knowledge of propellors as
advertised by MARGIE Warnke in "Sport Aviation" We have been very
impressed with the props made by Bernie Warnke, and as these are no longer
available we are wondering what to use instead. Bernies props seemed to
outperform the other props we have seen both on climb and cruise, with good
RPM on climb and yet low Rpm for high cruise speed. I am sure the home
builders will feel the loss of Bernie. Use my home Email address if you
feel it prudent. Thanks in advance. Brian.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
>Still no answer to the original question. And the question is.........
>
>I'm tooling down the road in my RX7 at 4000 rpm....
>
>What's the tachometer reading; the rotors or the shaft?
The shaft.
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO" <lewisth(at)af.pentagon.mil> |
| Subject: | AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box |
Listers,
The FAB box kit supplies AN470AD3 rivets (small, round head) to rivet the
fiberglass FAB housing to the aluminum top plate. I have the die for an
AN470AD4 rivet, but not for an AN470AD3 rivet. I'm thinking of just using
the flat dies that I use for AN426 rivets, rather than buying an AN470AD3
die for a dozen little round head rivets. What have others done?
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ N47TD (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
types="text/plain,text/html";
--=====================_2220123==_.ALT
>
>
><< If the rotor is rotating at 2000 rpm the eccentric shaft
> is rotating at 6000 rpm. If the rotor is rotating at 1500 rpm the eccentric
>shaft
> is rotating at 4500 rpm, etc. >>
>
>Still no answer to the original question. And the question is.........
>
>I'm tooling down the road in my RX7 at 4000 rpm....
>
>What's the tachometer reading; the rotors or the shaft?
>
It is reading the shaft.
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
--=====================_2220123==_.ALT
It is reading the shaft.
--=====================_2220123==_.ALT--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
<< << builders tell us they are apprehensive. >>
Well what a bunch of B.S. that is. I am not in the least bit apprehensive.
Where did that come from?
For those who said something like this, I have a question. How much do you
want for your kit? Make it worth my while.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM >>
Interesting. As an AVWEB subscriber, I took notice that the "builders tell us
they are apprehensive." comment was not included in the original AVFLASH news
piece. It would appear that someone has edited the original news blurb.
As for the comments regarding the point of failure on the RV-8 wing, a
"usually reliable source" would not remain anonymous, but rather be willing to
come forward. Besides, if we look at the RV-8 wing, where else would we expect
it to break? Would we all feel better if it broke at the spar attach? I am
fairly certain that this is the point of failure of the wings that were
factory tested to ultimate limits. It has to break somewhere, and the real
question is how many G's did N58RV experience prior to the accident?
Jon Ross 80094 skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
WBWard(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << builders tell us they are apprehensive. >>
>
> Well what a bunch of B.S. that is. I am not in the least bit apprehensive.
>
In all fairness to AVWeb there was nothing in the report that I received about
"builders being apprehensive".
Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap TX. RV-4
day, June 02, 1998 6:55 AM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RV-List: AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box
Listers,
The FAB box kit supplies AN470AD3 rivets (small, round head) to
rivet the
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <TBronson(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
<< builders tell us they are apprehensive. >>
FWIW, in my "copy" of AVflash, the above statement was not included. My
guess is that it was somebody's conjecture which was not immediately caught
by the editors. I'll bet they were unable to find any "apprehensive"
builders.
Tim
Pittsburgh
Non-apprehensive future RV-8 builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Flap Blown Fuse...WHY? |
We all seem to be brainwashed to think that when a fuse blows that we should just
replace it and continue on. Or we here, "Darn...I should have used a circuit
breaker so I could reset it right away".
The first question to ask it "why did this fuse blow?" I'd suggest considering
the following:
1. Put an ammeter in the circuit and see if the motor is drawing more current
than it should while cycling the flaps (on the ground!). Apply some resistive
force to the flaps while they are running to see how quickly the current approaches
the 5 amp rating of your fuse. You might have something binding or misaligned
which would cause the motor to draw more current than it should.
2. Check the wiring. Maybe you have a frayed wire that is shorting to ground
or you stipped a few extra strands of the wires when stripping off the insulation.
3. Determine the weakest link in the flap system and size the fuse to protect
that part. Maybe 5 amps is too small. The fuse is meant to blow and protect
the loop before some other part of the loop burns up.
4. Finally, don't kick youself for not using a circuit breaker. So what if you
couldn't retract your flaps. You could have still done a go-around if needed
and you can still taxi to your tie down without damage. No big deal!
Gary RV-6 finishing 20038 between Long Island and MA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: things look different here |
>PS Dump question of the week: What do you'll do along the coastal areas in
>those gloomy winter months?
>
Well, I live on Long Island. That has to count as a costal area, right?
Last winter, I packed the skis into my -6A (internal ski rack) and
constantly flew up to Maine to ski for the day. Take a look at
http://villagenet.com/~scottg/inflight2.html , taken on one of these
flight. This sure doesn't look all that gloomy, does it? When the weather
is bad, we who live in these "gloomy" area take the opportunity to get away
from the wives, go to the hanger and work on the planes.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
The number is not the only thing that is important. I find that
most sport aviation enthusiasts I talk to do not understand the G-Limit
restrictions put on aircraft.
The published G-Limits on most aircraft that we build are the
symmetric G-Limits for the airframe. This insures that no wing will see
more G than it can handle. It is actually pretty easy to over G an
aircraft if it is out of rig or you do not do a symmetric (i.e. straight
back or forward) pull on the stick with no rudder.
If you think you have not over G'ed the airframe because your
$200 G-Meter shows 6 Gs, in reality you could have put 9 to 12 or more
Gs on one of your wings, if a symmetric pull was not accomplished. The
amazing thing is that most folks think that $200 G meter protects them
from over G (look I only pulled 6 Gs!!!). It got so bad in the Air
Force that a special equipment is now onboard all real airplanes
(fighters) that the pilot cannot reset from the cockpit.
It is a natural tendency in a center stick aircraft as the G
load increases for the stick to move to one side or the other depending
on the hand that is on the control stick.
Just my .02 cents!
Gary Fesenbek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy McCallister <rmccalli(at)runet.edu> |
rmccalli(at)runet.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -4 &-8 underwing air inlet |
<< Mark,
It was a great idea you had; except I was the one who talked engineering
into letting me try it because I had seen it on some other RV's before
Bill saw yours at Copper State. I don't think he was even in the loop on
this one. >>
Scott:
Jeez- the ONE TIME I decide to tell the world I had an idea,...it turns out
somebody else had it first. Aaargh. My mom told me that there would be days
like this! My apologies, sir.
I had thought I had come up with a nifty application because after viewing the
-8 at one of its early airshows, I chided Bill about having put the scoop on
the 'wrong' side. He said that he told the shop guys to just put the thing in,
without specifying left or right. When the gen mgr of Van's, Inc. tells me
something, I tend to believe him. Heck, his desk is right over there- go ask
him (as if at this point he doesn't have anything else on his mind...:-( ).
But, if what you write is correct, I'd say that more than one of us figured
out that the high pressure air is on the bottom! That Bernoulli guy was right!
Check six!
Mark
keep the flow divider and lines cool, but during taxi
and
engine idling, the reduced cooling air and reduced fuel flow through the
system
gang up to overheat the fuel. My engine is an IO-320-B1A. the fuel from the
servo runs aft, up through the accessory area, through the baffle slightly
left of
center, and to the flow divider. All fuel lines are firesleeved, except for
the
injector lines that go from the flow divider to the injectors. I'm running
100LL,
and the fuel pressure at the outlet of the mechanical pump is staying constant
at
26 psi.
The reason I suspect the flow divider is that I can remove the top cowl,
and
the flow divider will be too hot to touch. After running the engine for a few
minutes with the top cowl removed, the idle smooths out. After shutting down
the engine, the flow divider is much cooler, and can be touched without
causing
permanent damage to my fingers. Today, I'm going to fabricate a piece of 1/8"
phenolic to install between the flow divider and it's mounting bracket that's
attached to the crankcase, to try and prevent heat transfer from the crankcase
to
the flow divider. Has anyone else had a similar problem? If so, how did you
correct it?
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Broken Arrow, Ok
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johnnie989(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
I'm not apprehensive either.
I am really interisted in what they find out about this crash before I spend
my hard earned cash. I feel for the pilot and his family. I flew in this very
airplane. I've been in a crash with an RV4. I wouldnt use the word
apprehensive. just looking after my butt.
Johnnie989
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Blown Fuse...WHY? |
>We all seem to be brainwashed to think that when a fuse blows
>that we should just replace it and continue on. Or we here,
>"Darn...I should have used a circuit breaker so I could reset
>it right away".
If you'd used a breaker, you might have fallen victim to
the idea that it's somehow normal or at least okay to
experience a nuisance trip . . . all our brothers flying
certified iron think so . . . cause there's nothing they
can do about it.
Keep in mind that the response time for a fuse is 10-50
times faster than a breaker. When I spec fuses into motor
circuits, I'll often go to a larger gage wire and appropriate
larger fuse to filter out nuisance trips.
I strongly suspect that if your flap motor called for 5A
circuit protection, the designer was thinking circuit breakers.
Consider going to 7-amp/20AWG or 10-amp/18AWG for flap
system wiring.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Faster RVs Part 3 - Correction |
A few months ago I put three posts on the list entitled Faster RVs Parts 1,
2 and 3, suggesting how to accurately measure, calculate and compare cruise
speeds at comparable power, weights and atmospheric conditions..
Wouldn't you know it, but I found an error in Part 3 where Fox's formula is
used, so I thought I should post a correction. That is:
- delete the words "and divide the result by two" in item 1 e) so it now
reads "1 e) add a) + b) + c) +d)"
- add the words " and divide the results by two" in item 1 f) so it now
reads "1 f) take the square root of e) and divide the result by two. This
is your TAS during the test."
You can find the earlier stuff in the archives by searching for the keyword
Framus.
Sorry about that!
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
ht).
It sounds like you're getting close- there sure are a lot of little things to
do at this point...right? A condensed version of your 'amazing expanding list
of things to do' posted to this list would be good information. You know- "I
finished one doo-hickey and found three other chingaderas, one framus, and a
photoratistat that had to be installed. Why is my list getting longer instead
of shorter? AARGH!"
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
>
>
He said:
> "...and builders tell us they are apprehensive."
>
As has been noted, this statement did not actually appear in the AvWeb
article (I'm on their service too).
I did note the government/military address from whence this mis-quote
originated.
Keith Jensen
25285
-6A HS done, into VS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/2/98 10:27:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com writes:
> It got so bad in the Air
> Force that a special equipment is now onboard all real airplanes
> (fighters) that the pilot cannot reset from the cockpit
Last I checked my RV-6 was a real airplane. It can take-off, land and even
kill me just like the real thing.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jswitzer(at)Primenet.Com (John L. Switzer) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
Carroll:
If you look at the AVWEB web page, the "newswire" version of the story does
contain the satement mentioned. The email version does not. I'm sure the
original snippet was taken from the web version.
>
>
>
>WBWard(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> << builders tell us they are apprehensive. >>
>>
>> Well what a bunch of B.S. that is. I am not in the least bit apprehensive.
>>
>
> In all fairness to AVWeb there was nothing in the report that I
received about
>"builders being apprehensive".
>
> Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap TX. RV-4
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HS608 rivetting problem |
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I have the exact problem with my HS606 this past Sunday. I don't have
> >a
> >feeler gauge, but could see light between the two surfaces that were
> >perfectly flush before I squeezed the rivets. I am still debating on
> >what
> >to do about it, and have stopped riveting ribs for the time being.
> >
> >I haven't seen a reply to this post yet. Anyone have any input?
> >
> >
> >Larry
> >larry(at)bowen.com
> >RV-8 emp.
> >Advance, NC
> >
> >
> Larry ( & Tom),
>
> What you are describing is something that happens (to a varying degree
> depending on the situation) some times when you squeeze rivets. It will
> tend to pucker the material under the shop head of the rivet. As long as
> the parts were tight together when you began squeezing the rivet, and the
> rivet is proper formed, you have nothing to worry about.
>
> Because of the problem you describe, The preferred orientation is always
> to put the manufactured head on the thinner material. Unless there is a
> particular reason for a different orientation (which there some times
> is). In many cases the materials are the same thickness, then it wont
> matter which way you put it. You are probably riveting ribs to the rear
> horizontal stab. spar which because it looks nicer the manufactured heads
> have traditionally been put on the back (out side) side of the spar.
> Feel free to turn them around the other way if you want. You will
> probably be happier with the results you get and know one will ever
> notice the difference.
> For some reason if you use a gun and a bucking bar you see much less of
> this happening. So that would be another option also.
> Final note, when we are talking about 2 or so rivets at each end of the
> ribs in a structure like the stabilizers, a major function of them is to
> hold the framework together while you get the skin put on it.
> Most of the strength in these structures is from the 2 spars and the skin
> itself.
> (This is not license to be sloppy with these rivets, It just means minor
> gaps and such wont have any negative effect on the final strength of the
> structure in this case)
> If the rivets them self look good, just keep on riveting!
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are my own
> and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> of my employer.
>
One other tibit is if you take a piece of rubber about a quarter of a
inch thick and maybe one inch square and drill a hole in it you then can
partially squeeze the rivet with the rubber over the shop head and the
rubber will tend to draw the two pieces of material together. The other
thing you can do to minumize the pucker is be careful not to use to long
of rivet.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box |
>
>
><< The FAB box kit supplies AN470AD3 rivets (small, round head) to rivet the
> fiberglass FAB housing to the aluminum top plate. I have the die for an
> AN470AD4 rivet, but not for an AN470AD3 rivet. I'm thinking of just using
> the flat dies that I use for AN426 rivets, rather than buying an AN470AD3
> die for a dozen little round head rivets. What have others done?
>
> Tim Lewis
> RV-6AQ N47TD (reserved)
> >>
>
>I can't comment about other builders, but I have seen flat sets used on many
>universal head-3 rivets on production a/c- possibly during some sort of
repair
>situation. None appear to be loose, so I'd say go ahead. This approach will
>leave more $$$ for adult beverages in your wallet (the ones consumed after
>that first incredible flight).
Even the MIL Spec says this use of flat sets is OK
http://www.flash.net/~gila/
Gil (use the $$$ for those adult beverages) Alexander
>
>It sounds like you're getting close- there sure are a lot of little things to
>do at this point...right? A condensed version of your 'amazing expanding list
>of things to do' posted to this list would be good information. You know- "I
>finished one doo-hickey and found three other chingaderas, one framus, and a
>photoratistat that had to be installed. Why is my list getting longer instead
>of shorter? AARGH!"
>
>Check six!
>Mark
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box |
Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> The FAB box kit supplies AN470AD3 rivets (small, round head) to rivet the
> fiberglass FAB housing to the aluminum top plate. I have the die for an
> AN470AD4 rivet, but not for an AN470AD3 rivet. I'm thinking of just using
> the flat dies that I use for AN426 rivets, rather than buying an AN470AD3
> die for a dozen little round head rivets. What have others done?
>
> Tim Lewis
> RV-6AQ N47TD (reserved)
>
Tim
I'll answer your question with a question. How did you get this far without
having a AN470-3 die?
Craig Hiers
My planes at the airport- and I'm not :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Graves <mgraves(at)dalsemi.com> |
Please forgive my ignorance, but I tuned in too late.
Was anybody injured or killed in the RV-8 crash?
Mike Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Assuming a standard RX-7 tachometer hook-up, the 4000 RPM represents the RPM of
the eccentric (crank) shaft, the rotors in this case would be rotating at 1333.333
RPM or eccentric shaft speed (tach speed) divided by 3. If the rotors were turning
at 4000 RPM the tach would indicated 12000 (that is if the engine and tach
survived to reach 12000). I undertand that full race prepared rotary engines can
approach 12000 rpm. Hope this clarifies the RPM question.
Ed
QmaxLLC(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I'm tooling down the road in my RX7 at 4000 rpm....
>
> What's the tachometer reading; the rotors or the shaft?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Kerr <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
...
>factory tested to ultimate limits. It has to break somewhere, and the real
>question is how many G's did N58RV experience prior to the accident?
>
Yes, this *is* the real question, along with the fact that this was a
prototype. How was it different from the kits, if at all? How was it
treated during it's life?
All this may take some time, so I suspect we'll have to be patient before
we find out what has to be done to avoid another such tragedy.
-Ian
lurking
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
I am
>fairly certain that this is the point of failure of the wings that were
>factory tested to ultimate limits. It has to break somewhere, and the real
>question is how many G's did N58RV experience prior to the accident?
>
>Jon Ross 80094 skinning fuselage
>
>Listers: regarding the recent RV8 crash;
I for one will not feel free to comment further on, or respond to
remarks regarding this subject untill the appropriate official reports are
made public.
There are lots of real questions still begging answers. In spite of
any and all good intentions it is still best to wait in silence while real
information is still being studied. Rumors often arise out of innocent
postulations and gain ever stronger validity each time they are responded or
referred to. Lets all wait for word from appropriate sources (NTSB, Vans',
FAA, etc.), then we can question and answer the string to its eventual end.
Jon and all others please note, Do not take offence, There is no criticism
intended in this statement.
jim RV6-eh wing rivets and tanks to do. Kelowna, B.C., Canada >
>
* When dreams come true the sky's the limit *
jjewell(at)okanagan.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box |
I used my flat die just the other day on a line of 470 rivets that were too
close to a flange to get the cupped set on. I used a Pnuematic squeezer, and
it left a little flat spot on the rivet head, but it set them just fine.
Moe Colontonio
>I'm thinking of just using
>the flat dies that I use for AN426 rivets, rather than buying an >AN470AD3
>die for a dozen little round head rivets. What have others done?
>
>Tim Lewis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
>
Anybody up for a game of telephone? You know the one where people start a
phrase and whisper it in someone's ear, pass it along, and see how
distorted it can become?
I think we should all cease any and all speculation out of respect to
Van's, John Morgan, and his family. I am sure that we will have our
answers in due time
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
I thought going from RC models to a kitplane put me in a REAL airplane.
I guess I was mistaken. I'll start saving my money for a $20 million
fighter so I can have a real plane...
Bryan Jones, Pearland, TX
RV-8 80313, attaching empenage to fuselage
> > It got so bad in the Air Force that a special equipment is now
> onboard all real airplanes
> (fighters) that the pilot cannot reset from the cockpit.
>
> It is a natural tendency in a center stick aircraft as the G
> load increases for the stick to move to one side or the other
> depending
> on the hand that is on the control stick.
>
> Just my .02 cents!
>
> Gary Fesenbek
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
Yesterday at our builders-group-pot-luck-rv-fly-in the guest of honor was Bill
Benedict from Vans flying the 8A. He gave demo rides to our wives and
children.
Do you suppose Van would have permitted this, in view of recent developments
and in todays litigatory(word?) climate, if he was not certain of the testing
and resulting strength data of the RV-8?
I for one will continue riveting with renued vigor. What a fantastic flying
machine.
Respectfully
Dennis Clay #80473
left wing ready for rivets
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank RV6 |
Help
After pro sealing the rear baffels I installed the fuel tanks onto the wings -
Now when I tried to take them off - They wont move - any suggestions on how to
get them free
BSivori(at)aol.com
Frustrated
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
> It got so bad in the Air
> Force that a special equipment is now onboard all real
airplanes
> (fighters) that the pilot cannot reset from the cockpit
Oops, should have read that before I put that out.
I meant real Air Force airplanes. Fighters as opposed to the tankers,
bombers and such who really earn their paycheck.
Hey I'm building a 6A so obviously it is real enough for me.
*************************************************
* Gary Fesenbek
*
* Meridium Inc.
*
* (540) 344-9205 x112
*
* gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
*
* http://www.meridium.com
*
*************************************************
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com [SMTP:RV6junkie(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 10:56 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: G Limits
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/98 10:27:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com writes:
>
> > It got so bad in the Air
> > Force that a special equipment is now onboard all real airplanes
> > (fighters) that the pilot cannot reset from the cockpit
>
> Last I checked my RV-6 was a real airplane. It can take-off, land and
> even
> kill me just like the real thing.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC - NJ
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box |
Hey Tim,
I'd just use the AN470AD4 dies to set the AD3's. I think you'll get at better
manufactured head than with a flat set.
Laird, SoCal
RV-6 fuse (damn, there's a lot of platenuts in the cabin area!)
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Tue, Jun 2, 1998 6:37 AM
Subject: RV-List: AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box
Listers,
The FAB box kit supplies AN470AD3 rivets (small, round head) to rivet the
fiberglass FAB housing to the aluminum top plate. I have the die for an
AN470AD4 rivet, but not for an AN470AD3 rivet. I'm thinking of just using
the flat dies that I use for AN426 rivets, rather than buying an AN470AD3
die for a dozen little round head rivets. What have others done?
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ N47TD (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "m.hanson" <paintbox(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | reality vs the plans-HS assembly |
Just when I thought I might know more than just how to drill a hole...
I'm in the process of drilling skins and ribs on the HS and have run into a
conflict between how I read the plans and what I'm actually seeing on the
HS.
In the rib attach dwg. for the 404&405, it shows that there are 4
rivets,one thru 404,610,602&405 / one thru 404,614,602&405. Where I'm
running into confusion is how the 2 center rivets, that join the flanges
of the 404&405,with the 602 sandwiched in between , fit because there is a
(+/- ) 1/8 inch gap between the 404 flange and the 602.?! This is because
the 404 bridges across the 610&614. I must be missing something, because
this does not look the way it is shown in the plans and I'm at a stand
still because I don't know what to do with it!!! I did trim the 404 to fit
around the 614, am I supposed to trim somewhere else? Thanks for any help.
Marc Hanson
RV-6A HS in progress?
paintbox(at)rconnect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box |
<< I'll answer your question with a question. How did you get this far without
having a AN470-3 die? >>
Tim-
I still don't have a 3/32 universal die and my plane is long done. I spent
the savings on fuel.
BTW, I see that you've recently been promoted. Congrats!
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flap question |
I would suggest finding the problem, friction and or binding before
a bandade fix like a slow blow fuse. If there is no problem then try the
fuse.
RV4273sb CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AN470AD3 rivets in Filtered Air Box |
That will work fine on the -3 rivets, in that application. They might flatten
a tad
but will still be much stronger than the fiberglass.
RV4273sb CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank RV6 |
Outside snap?
Don
Help
After pro sealing the rear baffels I installed the fuel tanks onto the wings
-
Now when I tried to take them off - They wont move - any suggestions on how
to
get them free
BSivori(at)aol.com
Frustrated
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "m.hanson" <paintbox(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | plans vs reality,HS |
Before all of you kind and generous RV'ers out there pass your wisdom on to
me, I have solved my problem! Actually, I just looked at the plans REAL
hard this time and saw that I indeed was supposed to trim the flange of the
404 rib so that it would sit against the 602 in between the 610&614.
Sometimes it just helps to have someone to talk to!!!
Marc Hanson
Back on track
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glad I built 'em |
From: Department of Flying Builders
Re: Things I'm Glad I Put On My Airplane, etc.
I was up flying today, just had to go up. Crystal-clear typical Colorado
morning, enjoying the airplane. Had a chance to look around inside and liked
what I saw. My airplane took a little longer than usual to build, but I'm
glad I took the time to build it straight (apparently) and JUST the way I
wanted it. Take time to plan well and you will have a happy place to fly.
Here are some random thoughts:
The Warnke prop: MAN, I like it. I feel fortunate I had mine carved up
before Bernie started doing angel wings (I wonder if he's still using the
beautiful laminate he used on the props). Mine was perfect right out of the
box. I hope he shared his magic secrets with those who are doing them now.
The Landow Harmonic Balancer: Never flown the RV without it but the engine
is becoming smoother with time. I think that is part breaking in of the new
engine and the breaking in of the balancer. Puts the weight forward and
gives the prop some inertia. I like it. Maybe those expensive Dynafocal
mounts help, too.
Throttle shelf: I built in a little side wall shelf that my whole arm and
hand rests on to run the go lever; throttle, mixture and trim sticking
through it, angled slightly for comfort. At the time I thought it may have
been extra weight I didn't need but it is really great to have an area to
rest your arm. No movement with The Bumps and very east to fine-tune the
throttle/mixture/trim with my arm steady on the shelf.
Manual trim: Never had the electric but I like the m i n u t e adjustments I
can make with the manual trim. Mounted just lateral to the throttle.
The Short Gear. Three point almost always drags the tailwheel first unless
I'm carrying a little power. Longer gear would help that but the short gear
is ON THERE and I can't even find the time to quit flying long enough to
paint the ol' dear, let alone change gear. Probably won't ever change it.
The Rocky Mountain mEncoder: I like it and use almost all of its many
functions. I still have the analog AIS, VSI, ALT and use them all. The
mEnconder is a good primary/backup system. I use different instruments at
different times. I mounted the VSI upper right corner of the Flight Cluster
for mountain flying: since the horizon isn't always definite, it is nice to
know if you are going up or down.
Airspeed Indicator: analog in the upper left corner of the Flight Cluster
which is where it seems to belong. Why? Most of your turns low and slow in
the pattern are to the left and that makes it a short scan distance to refer
to it when most needed: slow and looking to the left in the pattern. I refer
to the analog guage when in the pattern, mostly from 'where the needle
should be' perspective. Take lots of time to plan your panel. You are going
to have to look at it a lot and for a long time. Look at other panels and
note what you like and don't about them. Then "fly" your panel a lot before
you do the Hard Copy.
Infinity Stick Grip: really like it. Has a great feel and just the right
size for my hand. Someone asked me one time if the stick flys OK lefthanded
when needed and it does, although it is, of course a right handed stick. A
well thought-out design, based on F-16 design. My jet is just a little
smaller, and almost as fast. Try it out at Oshkosh, excuse me, AirVenture at
their booth.
Manual Flaps: I can see the advantages of both, but I like the manual. I can
IMMEDIATELY dump flaps on landing which PLANTS the airplane on when needed.
It takes a little muscle to yank off full flaps on go-around, but we are
supposed to be in shape anyway, right? This is like the tailwheel/nose wheel
debate. You like what you like.
The Bugs Know: In cleaning the bugs off the airplane, it is easy to see that
this is a very well designed airplane. How? Where the Bugs Are. Their little
smudges hug the top of the wing quite a ways back from the leading edge.
Good airflow adhearance. They smudge RIGHT AT the forward canopy
fairing/fuselage intersection; again, good airflow. Wingroot fairings gets
bugs: good airflow. Tail fairing, for crying out loud, where the flow should
be all over the place: bugs. That is why this airplane slips through the air
so fast. VERY unscientific method of airflow analysis, but I can also see
places I need to improve on the coweling from the bug hits (as if I needed
them to know that), and the blister I made for the alternator bracked aligns
exactly with bug bodies. Thanks for the help, bugs.
RV-4: MAN, do I love this airplane. I am EXTREAMLY biased and like the whole
RV series, but I still think the RV-4 is the best looking. You like what you
like. I am very at home in the front office and the airplane just FITS me
like a glove. An old soft familiar glove. Some days when I can't fly, I just
go out to the hanger and LOOK at the airplane and marvel.
Keep building. You are going to LOVE your NEW airplane.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Introspection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>Using GPS or Loran, fly straight and level flight on any track (not
>heading), record the ground speed, call it V1. Turn left or right to a
>track 90 degrees from the first, record the second ground speed and call it
>V2.
>Turn another 90 degrees in the same direction to a third track 180 degrees
>from the first, and record V3.
>
>For engineers, calculate TAS = ( sqrt ( V1^2 + V2^2 + V3^2 + (
>V1^2*V3^2/V2^2)))/2
>
>For human beings :-)
>
>a) calculate V1 squared
>b) calculate V2 squared
>c) calculate V3 squared
>d) calculate V1 squared times V3 squared divided by V2 squared
>e) add a) + b) + c) + d)
>f) take the square root of e) and divide by two. That is TAS.
>
>The wind component in the direction of your first track is W1 = (V1 -
>V3)/2
>
>The wind component in the direction of your second track is W2 = (V2 -
>(V1*V3/V2))/2
>
>Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
Well, I've said this before, but I am mistified as to why anyone would
want to use such complicated methods (flying ground tracks, and doing all
that math) to find TAS.
--Turn on your GPS
--Make a slowww turn back and forth till the GPS shows the lowest ground
speed
--Read the number on the GPS
--Turn to a HEADING 180 degrees from the first heading
--Read the number on the GPS
--Add the two groundspeed numbers and divide by 2. This is your true
airspeed.
--You are done (Try it at a different speed now. The other guys are
still trying to fly a ground track and program their calculators)
:)
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Installing Radios
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "E. Coli" <timf(at)ushandball.org> |
I think he meant real Air Force aircraft, ie: fighters, not bombers that
don't pull big g's...not implying RV's aren't real, simply that the B-1
isn't. ;-)
----------
> From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: G Limits
> Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 9:56 AM
>
>
> In a message dated 6/2/98 10:27:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com writes:
>
> > It got so bad in the Air
> > Force that a special equipment is now onboard all real airplanes
> > (fighters) that the pilot cannot reset from the cockpit
>
> Last I checked my RV-6 was a real airplane. It can take-off, land and
even
> kill me just like the real thing.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC - NJ
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
When Bill gave official word of the RV-8 accident to the list last week he
respectfully requested that all speculation regarding the events surrounding
the accident be kept off-list until Vans and the NTSB completed their
investigation. Make no mistake, when a cause is determined we will be made
aware before anyone else.
As such, lets stop pondering publicly as to the cause of this tragedy. This is
how rumors get started. The RV series of aircraft have a proven track record.
Dick is a respected designer, engineer and businessman. Lets make sure that
we (individually and collectively) are not the cause of any negative impact on
Vans business.
Even if you have seen the wreckage, any theory or story you might have
regarding the aircraft is pure speculation as to the cause of the accident. As
builders, owners and flyers of Vans designs we have the right to know the
facts and he Bill has told us we will be first to know any official
developments.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
>>
>>
>I did note the government/military address from whence this mis-quote
>originated.
>
>Keith Jensen
>25285
>-6A HS done, into VS
>
I think an apology is due to Major Tim Lewis. The implication that his
timely and apparently accurate information about what was published on a
subject of vital importance to many of us was somehow self-serving is
totally inappropriate.
Terry Watson
RV8 #729
Seattle
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au> |
| Subject: | RV List: HS608 rivetting problem |
Larry & Tom,
Here is a little tip that I picked from Jim Gentry (Retired Production
Manager Bell Helicopters Fort Worth) and it works just great. Get a
piece of fairly dense rubber about 3/4 inch diameter, thickness to be a
little longer than the rivet tail,drill a hole in it the size of the
rivet, position the rubber over the tail of the rivet. Compress the
rivet lightly with squeeser or gun, this will then pull the two surfaces
together. This will, in nearly all cases, get rid of the pucker. Remove
rubber, and finish driving rivet.
Ken Glover Newcastle - OZ
from Jim
Gentry (Retired Production Manager Bell Helicopters Fort Worth) and it
works
just great. Get a piece of fairly dense rubber about 3/4 inch diameter,
thickness to be a little longer than the rivet tail,drill a hole in it
the size
of the rivet, position the rubber over the tail of the rivet. Compress
the rivet
lightly with squeeser or gun, this will then pull the two surfaces
together.
This will, in nearly all cases, get rid of the pucker. Remove rubber,
and finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>
> The published G-Limits on most aircraft that we build are the
>symmetric G-Limits for the airframe. This insures that no wing will see
>more G than it can handle. It is actually pretty easy to over G an
>aircraft if it is out of rig or you do not do a symmetric (i.e. straight
>back or forward) pull on the stick with no rudder.
>
Excellent Post Gary,
Gary is absolutely right here. The situation he describes is called a
"rolling pull." The loads a wing will tolerate when it is preloaded in
torsion are considerably less. This is extremely critical in the North
American Mustang and Douglas A-26. I personally watched an A-26 break the
rear spar cap when the pilot spotted another airplane (the one I was in) and
pulled back on the yoke with the ailerons near full deflection. Miraculously
the pilot unloaded the wing after hearing a loud band and landed safely.
This is a real concern when doing acro at speeds far above Va. What if you
are 3/4 of the way around a roll at 180 mph and full aileron deflection when
you see a Canada Goose headed for the canopy? Easily, you could
instinctively pull too hard.... Even if you are at or below Va, if the wing
is torsionally loaded by full deflection of the ailerons, maneuvering speed
may not be enough protection.
Editorial starts here:
Let me preface these remarks by saying, I am not suggesting or accusing any
particular person of doing anything to contribute to the unfortunate set of
circumstances that occurred. My only purpose in discussing this event is to
must make us ponder how we fly and how something similar could happen to us.
Otherwise this terrible loss would be in vain.
The story goes that Lloyd Stearman offered $10,000 to anyone who could break
a Stearman in flight. That would be huge amount today, and no one ever
collected. This was because the Stearman is so draggy that even at full
power straight down it will not achieve enough speed to break it. What's
the point of this? As far as I know nearly any other airplane can be broken
by the pilot. (This includes the unlimited aerobatic types)
An RV is no exception. It is stronger than most, but not indestructible.
Apparently the weakest link was tested. Prudence dictates that a full
investigation be made, and if flaws are found they be fixed. If the weakest
link is what is found, then what we know is the weakest link.
The fact remains that in nearly ALL airplanes you hold in your hand the
power to break the airplane. In a car, when you meet an 80,000# semi on a
two lane road you hold that same power. Food for thought.......
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: G Limits (Humor) |
<< I thought going from RC models to a kitplane put me in a REAL airplane.
I guess I was mistaken. I'll start saving my money for a $20 million
fighter so I can have a real plane... >>
In the world of mathmatics there are real numbers and imaginary numbers. If
we transfer this logic to aviation there are real airplanes and imaginary
airplanes. I guess that the RVs are imaginary airplanes, which is ok by me,
as I consider myself for the most part to be an imaginary pilot (at least
while I am in the building stage).
Some of you guys need to lighten up, this is suppose to be fun, add a little
humor to your life!
Bob Busick
Imaginary RV-6
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glad I built 'em |
VERY unscientific method of airflow analysis, but I can also see
places I need to improve on the coweling from the bug hits (as if I needed
them to know that), and the blister I made for the alternator bracked aligns
exactly with bug bodies.>>>
Don't count yourself out, Michael. Forensic science uses maggots and flies
to determine time of death!
I can't wait to clean off the bugs on my bird!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)
Mounting Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
<< Yesterday at our builders-group-pot-luck-rv-fly-in the guest of honor was
Bill
Benedict from Vans flying the 8A. He gave demo rides to our wives and
children.>>
I'm sorry, but I have to rain on your parade. Marketing is marketing and
Science is Science. I like to look at the brightest side too, but I'm a
realist. We can kid ourselves only so far. Pretending that there is no
problem when the analysis is not complete is unwise.
<< Do you suppose Van would have permitted this, in view of recent
developments
and in todays litigatory(word?) climate, if he was not certain of the
testing
and resulting strength data of the RV-8? >>
Great rhetorical question and this was quite possibly an irresponsible
activity if the structures between this a/c and the prototype are identical,
IMO. I realize that the proto had many more hours on it (but controlled hours
by factory pilots) so I may be a little over the top here. A more prudent
action might have been to tone down the marketing push a little until the
analysis on the failed prototype is complete (I'm assuming here that it
isn't), but then I'm not a businessman.
If the structures of the two planes are equivalent and we believe no gross
pilot error in the crash of the prototype, you can bet that I wouldn't be
condoning the taking of women and children up until I knew EXACTLY what
happened. Now maybe there is a major difference (between the two a/c) that
only Van's staff is privy to.
I'm not building an 8/8A, but, if I was, you can bet that "apprehension" would
be my new middle name. A healthy dose of apprehension might be good for all
until the truth is revealed.
Just one little man's opinion. I'll be happy to receive flames if put to me
directly (not to the list).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: reality vs the plans-HS assembly |
m.hanson wrote:
>
>
> Just when I thought I might know more than just how to drill a hole...
> I'm in the process of drilling skins and ribs on the HS and have run into a
> conflict between how I read the plans and what I'm actually seeing on the
> HS.
> In the rib attach dwg. for the 404&405, it shows that there are 4
> rivets,one thru 404,610,602&405 / one thru 404,614,602&405. Where I'm
> running into confusion is how the 2 center rivets, that join the flanges
> of the 404&405,with the 602 sandwiched in between , fit because there is a
> (+/- ) 1/8 inch gap between the 404 flange and the 602.?! This is because
> the 404 bridges across the 610&614. I must be missing something, because
> this does not look the way it is shown in the plans and I'm at a stand
> still because I don't know what to do with it!!! I did trim the 404 to fit
> around the 614, am I supposed to trim somewhere else? Thanks for any help.
>
Hi Marc,
The 404 is trimmed to fit over the 610 & 614. The 404 is held to the
602 and 405 with the center two rivets only. It's hard to picture, but
drawing 3pp shows(about in the middle of the sheet) how the 404 is
trimmed to fit over the 610 & 614.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sm5092(at)ldd.net (SAMMY MABRY) |
-----Original Message-----
From: TOMMY E. WALKER <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 11:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: TITE SEAL
>
>Has anyone had anyone had experience using "Tite Seal" compound on the fuel
>tank inspection plates and the sender mount plate? How well does it work?
>
>Tommy
>Finishing 6-A Wings
>Ridgetop, Tennessee
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Tommy
I don't know any thing about the tite seal. I just saw your adress in
Ridgetop Tenn, which is fairly close to me, I live in Benton Kentucky.
Sounds like you are just ahead of me, I have a left wing in the jig with
the skins drilled. Have started on the tanks. Just wanted to get
aquainted.
Sam
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
><< builders tell us they are apprehensive. >>
>Well what a bunch of B.S. that is. I am not in the least bit apprehensive.
>Where did that come from?
>For those who said something like this, I have a question. How much do you
>want for your kit? Make it worth my while.
Wendell,
I love the RV-8 that the bunch of bits in a box in my workshop will one day
become. I have no intent of giving up on my dream, or offering you a great
deal. But, if you ask me if I am apprehensive about the fact that an
extremely experienced pilot was lost in an superb aircraft build by Van's
experienced team, whereas I have only over 100 hours PIC and am an
inexperienced builder building my own plane eight thousand miles away from
the factory? Come on, I'd have to be an idiot to say I wasn't. The loss of
John Morgan, his passenger and N58RV is a tragedy. Yes, I am concerned, as
we all are when a fellow pilot is lost. Yes, I am apprehensive, which is not
necessarily an unhealthy thing. Most importantly though, I am certain that
Van understands these concerns all too well, and that he and his team will
let us know as soon as there are concrete facts and logical conclusions
available.
Oh, by the way, did I mention I love my plane? Even if she is 'just' an semi
assembled emp kit?
Chris
____
Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751
Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz
442 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand
RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
On 2 Jun 98, at 15:32, RV6junkie(at)aol.com wrote:
> When Bill gave official word of the RV-8 accident to the list last week he
> respectfully requested that all speculation regarding the events
> surrounding the accident be kept off-list until Vans and the NTSB
> completed their investigation.
Actually Bill said, "We would like to keep the rumors to a minimum and intend
to
inform this group of any findings as soon as available. We would appreciate people
not
speculating as to the cause of the accident." He also said "Although the NTSB
may
take weeks or months to reach a conclusion, Van should be able to provide some
details
by the end of the week." (posted 5/25) I don't believe we've heard anything more
from
Van's since that post.
We learned the initial diagnosis of "in flight breakup" from a lister's 5/30 post
from the
preliminary accident report. I'm grateful to that lister for posting what he learned,
and
to anybody else on the list who has access to facts and posts them for all of us
to see.
The loss of John and the -8 has been on my mind every day since it went down.
I
believe the best way to reduce speculation is to provide information, not to exhort
silence. All of us who build and fly RVs have a legitimate interest in knowing
the facts.
I'm also interested in hearing what other folks think about the accident, based
on the
facts that we know. I think the discussion of asymmetric G loads, for example,
is
important and timely. Even if it turns out to be irrelevant to the loss of the
-8 it is a
good topic to discuss, and one that was not covered when I went thru civilian ground
school in '85.
Tim Lewis
Riveting the FAB tonight with flush sets
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
| Subject: | reality vs the plans-HS assembly |
You asked:
>
> In the rib attach dwg. for the 404&405, it shows that there are 4
> rivets,one thru 404,610,602&405 / one thru 404,614,602&405. Where I'm
> running into confusion is how the 2 center rivets, that join the
> flanges
> of the 404&405,with the 602 sandwiched in between , fit because there
> is a
> (+/- ) 1/8 inch gap between the 404 flange and the 602.?! This is
> because
> the 404 bridges across the 610&614.
>
Marc:
If you look at Drawing 3, about the center of the page, you will
see a detail which shows that the edges of 404 are removed so that the
rib does NOT sit up on 610/614, but snuggles right down between, and
flush. Yes, I didn't catch it at first either, and couldn't figure out
for the longest time how those pieces were supposed to slip in without
bending things.
Keith Jensen
-6A HS just done
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)" <KJensen(at)simplot.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
> ----------
> From: Terrence C. Watson[SMTP:tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:37 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb
>
>
>
>
> I think an apology is due to Major Tim Lewis.
> Terry Watson
> RV8 #729
> Seattle
>
Terry, Tim, et al:
I agree - I sent this to Tim privately earlier, but in light of Terry's
comment, I see it needs to be published as broadly as my mistake.
My apology to the entire list.
Keith Jensen
> ----------
> From: Jensen, Keith (MC R&D)
> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 5:01 PM
> To: 'lewisth(at)af.pentagon.mil'
> Subject: apology
>
>
> Tim:
> I posted an email concerning the avweb notice of the
> RV-8 crash you posted, in which I implied something really stupid. I
> apologize for the innuendo. I'll be kicking myself a while for that
> one. If you feel this needs to be posted to the list in order to make
> good the apology, by all means do so.
>
> Keith Jensen
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: G Limits (Humor) |
> Some of you guys need to lighten up, this is suppose to be fun, add a little
> humor to your life!
>
> Bob Busick
> Imaginary RV-6
> Fremont CA
Bob,
I've been down a month waiting on parts for my overhaul. Ha ha, boy am I
having fun now. I can tell you haven't got yours built yet.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Here is more mail from Jon's group. Another question brought up
is import duties. Does anyone know if this would apply to a seat
order from Jon in Australia?
(with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Tue Jun 2 18:33:46 1998)
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 00:31:47 +1000
From: Bruce Johansen <bjjoey(at)writeme.com>
Subject: Re: RV seats
<3.0.5.32.19980529214527.00796660(at)mail.netconnect.com.au>
Good morning Michael.
In answer to your questions:-
>What method of payment do you require.
Master card or Visa card can be arranged or else a bank draft sent to me
will work.
>how many seats can you fit to one box?
How big a box would you like? :) We will make the box to suit the order but
more than four per box could be stretching things a bit.
>are the seats attached in any way to the fuselage.
In NOJ no, there is no need in the front but in the back it would be easy
to fix them to a solid pivot on the floor. This is what I will be doing
when I can but it is not really necessary.
>do you lose any leg room with them?
In the front no. For the passenger yes, a little. There is still plenty of
room for a passengers feet and legs but they will need to move their left
leg when it is time to use the manual flaps. The biggest complaint I have
from passengers is that the forward visibility is reduced when it comes to
them looking at the instrument panel and directly forward - a valid complaint.
>One more thing, when can we expect to receive them after >they are ordered?
Seats should be ready for shipping in 10 working days from receiving the
order. Shipping is usually 7 - 10 days to the USA.
Till next time all the best,
Jon Johanson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: reality vs the plans-HS assembly |
The 404 flange must be trimmed to fit between the 810 & 814. The
outboard rivets do not go through the flange of the 404 rib, as the
flange there must be trimmed away. There is a picture of this on the
Horizontal Stab section of my web page.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
m.hanson wrote:
>
>
> Just when I thought I might know more than just how to drill a hole...
> I'm in the process of drilling skins and ribs on the HS and have run into a
> conflict between how I read the plans and what I'm actually seeing on the
> HS.
> In the rib attach dwg. for the 404&405, it shows that there are 4
> rivets,one thru 404,610,602&405 / one thru 404,614,602&405. Where I'm
> running into confusion is how the 2 center rivets, that join the flanges
> of the 404&405,with the 602 sandwiched in between , fit because there is a
> (+/- ) 1/8 inch gap between the 404 flange and the 602.?! This is because
> the 404 bridges across the 610&614. I must be missing something, because
> this does not look the way it is shown in the plans and I'm at a stand
> still because I don't know what to do with it!!! I did trim the 404 to fit
> around the 614, am I supposed to trim somewhere else? Thanks for any help.
>
> Marc Hanson
> RV-6A HS in progress?
> paintbox(at)rconnect.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
<< Still no answer to the original question. And the question is.........
>
>I'm tooling down the road in my RX7 at 4000 rpm....
>
>What's the tachometer reading; the rotors or the shaft?
The shaft. >>
Great!!!
That means the shaft, a hunk of metal maybe an inch and a half in diameter is
doing a piddling 4000 rpm of pure rotation while the rotors are doing 1/3 of
that and rotating as well.
That's a very low stress condition and definately not comparable to a recip
engine's 4000 rpm.
I like a rotary even more, now.
Thanks!!
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
<< It has to break somewhere, and the real
question is how many G's did N58RV experience prior to the accident? >>
Nope....the real question is - what happend? Answer that first, then go on to
the diagnosis. beware assumptions and newsflashes.
bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
You are not apprehensive??? How can a wing break, cause a terrible tragedy,
and you not be apprehensive. My wing kit will stay in the box until some
answers appear. You bet I am apprehensive.
hilljw(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Fellow Rivet Rammers:
I am about to go where this man has never gone before, and bend the
tabs for the ends of the trim tab and the outboard side of the cutout
for the trim tab in the left elevator. I am in a quandry as to where to
make the bend for the tabs in the elevator. I see on the plans where
the fold line should be for the trim tab, but not for the elevator. I
want to make these bends so that the gap at the outboard edge of the
trimtab and the elevator is even along its length.
How did the group do this? I am thinking that the best way would
be to do the bends in the trimtab, set the trim tab in place in the
cutout in the elevator, and then transfer the angle the outboard end
of the trim tab has to the tabs on the elevator. Sound like a plan, or
is there an easier way?
This is all assuming that I don't mess up these bends and end up
making little ribs anyway! Thought I would at least give it a college
try. Thanks for the advice, group.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 left elevator and scary tab bends.
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Glad I built 'em |
<<
VERY unscientific method of airflow analysis, but I can also see
places I need to improve on the coweling from the bug hits (as if I needed
them to know that), and the blister I made for the alternator bracked aligns
exactly with bug bodies.>>>
----------
Don't count yourself out, Michael. Forensic science uses maggots and flies
to determine time of death! >>
----------
Anybody know the whole story of the RAF gluing split peas to the wings of the
Splitfire (oops!) Something to do with airflow analysis as I remember...they
kept gluing them on to check airflow patterns.
Maybe they should have used Michael's BAFALED. (Bug Airflow Forensic Analysis
and Laminar Evaluation Determinator) :-)
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | reality vs the plans-HS assembly |
A real live picture is worth a thousand words. Moe's got a good one
illustrating the 404 on http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe/HS.htm under
the "Drilling the skin to the skeleton" section.
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
RV-8 emp.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: reality vs the plans-HS assembly
m.hanson wrote:
>
>
> Just when I thought I might know more than just how to drill a hole...
> I'm in the process of drilling skins and ribs on the HS and have run into
a
> conflict between how I read the plans and what I'm actually seeing on the
> HS.
> In the rib attach dwg. for the 404&405, it shows that there are 4
> rivets,one thru 404,610,602&405 / one thru 404,614,602&405. Where I'm
> running into confusion is how the 2 center rivets, that join the flanges
> of the 404&405,with the 602 sandwiched in between , fit because there is a
> (+/- ) 1/8 inch gap between the 404 flange and the 602.?! This is because
> the 404 bridges across the 610&614. I must be missing something, because
> this does not look the way it is shown in the plans and I'm at a stand
> still because I don't know what to do with it!!! I did trim the 404 to
fit
> around the 614, am I supposed to trim somewhere else? Thanks for any
help.
>
Hi Marc,
The 404 is trimmed to fit over the 610 & 614. The 404 is held to the
602 and 405 with the center two rivets only. It's hard to picture, but
drawing 3pp shows(about in the middle of the sheet) how the 404 is
trimmed to fit over the 610 & 614.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | HVLP via Binks gun |
I just bought a new Binks gun and it is great!!! I'm totally unexperienced
with spray guns but this thing makes me look like I know what I'm doing....so
far.
It's non-turbo so it doesn't suck in the dried paint that floats around the
shop and it doesn't get warm with use like I was told a turbo gun would. (any
corroboration to that out there?)
I shot the barbeque and then a couple of picture frames and they came out
really great. Beginner's luck maybe, so I'd like to hear from others before
diving into the sheet metal of my a/c. Anybody got some tips re: technique,
pressures, paint thinning?
$400 is kind of 'spensive for a paint gun (especially if all I do is the
barbeque!) but a whole lot of fun and whole lot cheaper than paying somebody
to do it. Besides, what's the re-sale value when I'm done? Makes it a bunch
cheaper. Come to think of it, that's less than a decent turbo rig so that's a
wash.
Grinning over my just received 6QB kit.
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
I heard that a Bonanza crashed the other day. Seems it came
apart in the air. There were no witnesses, so structural failure
was blamed. All Bonanza owners are apprehensive. It may just
be a rumor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: HS608 rivetting problem |
John Walsh emailed me yesterday with the suggestion to put the mfr head on
the rib flange AND use the gun instead of the squeezer. As Scott
McDaniels' post indicated, when one piece is a lot heavier material than
the other, this produces better results. I tried it last night and it
worked well. I used an offset rivet set so as to minimize the bending of
the rib (you have to push it aside to get the rivet gun lined up). The
rivet gun is a little harder for me to get good results with, but I'm
getting better. A few hundred more rivets and I'll be a pro.
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: HS608 rivetting problem |
>I have the exact problem with my HS606 this past Sunday. I don't have
>>a
>>feeler gauge, but could see light between the two surfaces that were
>>perfectly flush before I squeezed the rivets. I am still debating on
>>what
>>to do about it, and have stopped riveting ribs for the time being.
>>
>Larry ( & Tom),
>
>What you are describing is something that happens (to a varying degree
>depending on the situation) some times when you squeeze rivets. It will
>tend to pucker the material under the shop head of the rivet. As long as
>the parts were tight together when you began squeezing the rivet, and the
>rivet is proper formed, you have nothing to worry about.
>
>Because of the problem you describe, The preferred orientation is always
>to put the manufactured head on the thinner material. Unless there is a
>particular reason for a different orientation (which there some times
>is). In many cases the materials are the same thickness, then it wont
>matter which way you put it. You are probably riveting ribs to the rear
>horizontal stab. spar which because it looks nicer the manufactured heads
>have traditionally been put on the back (out side) side of the spar.
>Feel free to turn them around the other way if you want. You will
>probably be happier with the results you get and know one will ever
>notice the difference.
> For some reason if you use a gun and a bucking bar you see much less of
>this happening. So that would be another option also.
>Final note, when we are talking about 2 or so rivets at each end of the
>ribs in a structure like the stabilizers, a major function of them is to
>hold the framework together while you get the skin put on it.
>Most of the strength in these structures is from the 2 spars and the skin
>itself.
>(This is not license to be sloppy with these rivets, It just means minor
>gaps and such wont have any negative effect on the final strength of the
>structure in this case)
>If the rivets them self look good, just keep on riveting!
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
Scott,
This is a great reply. I remember going through the same period of worry
myself back in horizontal stab days. This would be worth adding to the
preamble in the manual - it causes heart burn for every first time builder.
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: O-360 for sale |
Subject:
Lyc O-360 A1D
Date:
From:
Roger Mellema
mail.halcyon.com
Newsgroups:
rec.aviation.marketplace
Lycoming O-360 A1D engine. From 1968 Mooney damaged in hurricane -
logbooks lost. The following are included: mags redone, carb redone
(also have Ellison for $1500), Woodward prop governor, Pesco wet vacuum
pump, flywheel modified for Light Speed ignition, good alternator,
starter, oil filter adapter.
Engine was recently run for a couple of hours. Hot oil pressure
is top
of the green, compression is 76 / 80. Everything worked perfectly
including the prop governor.
Engine is extremely clean inside and out, rubber is still soft.
My
guess is that the total time is less than 1000 hours.
Also Hartzell constant speed prop (compact hub) freshly
overhauled. It
is 72 inches long. HC-C2YK1-A with 7666 blades.
Package ~ $12,000, or best offer. Will sell separate.
Reply via email. rmellema(at)who.net
--
Roger D. Mellema Editor: BD-4 Builder's Newsletter
BD-4 with Ford 3.8 L V-6 2/3 P-51 with 351 Ford V-8
Rotordyne tandem Gyroplane with Lyc O-290
rmellema(at)who.net
http://www.halcyon.com/www2/rmellema/BDindex.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
> I'm tooling down the road in my RX7 at 4000 rpm....
>
> What's the tachometer reading; the rotors or the shaft?
>
the shaft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Smith <kpsmith(at)ais.net> |
| Subject: | FAA and NTSB listings. |
Some one asked. accident and incident reports are found here:
The following provides the most timely info I have found, with most
postings occurring the next day:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/iirform.htm
More complete synopses of accident reports can be found on the
following, but about 12 to 18 months later:
http://www.canard.com/ntsb/months.htm
Ken Smith. kpsmith(at)ais.net
Dusty RV6 HS in the jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:BFL Fly-In (info needed) |
I've attended the fly-in the last seven years,( this will be the first one
I've flown to in my RV!). We usually see around 50 - 75 RV's fly-in.
Attandance is usually around 300 people for the BBQ. The BBQ starts around
3-4pm. Lots of RV's, lots of nice people, and lots of great food!
Walt. RV-6A 79WH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:BFL Fly-In (info needed) |
Oh yeah, I forgot: The chapter welcomes ALL aircraft, not Just RV's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
<< You are not apprehensive??? How can a wing break, cause a terrible
tragedy,
and you not be apprehensive. My wing kit will stay in the box until some
answers appear. You bet I am apprehensive.
hilljw(at)aol.com
>>
I strongly recommend that WE STOP this "thread" right here... until the
official results come out. PLEASE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Bill Benedict is right. RV-8 info on the web. |
Info was posted to their web site on 6/1/98.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/sections/n58rv.htm
It takes a lot of patience to build an airplane. Waiting for answers
is part of the trait necessary to see a project through to completion.
I will be flying my RV to Bakersfield with its new paint for the RV
BBQ. See you there.
Good luck with your building.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Folks
Please try to have patience in this RV8 Accident issue. This has probably
been a pretty tough week for Van and his staff. Also, this is a sensitive
issue, too. Who or what do we blame for this accident? I am quite sure that
there will be more destructive testing of RV8 parts, but this, of course,
takes time. Just my two cents worth.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi group, its me again:
Was just doing some head-scratching about where to put the bend
lines for the tabs at the outboard end of the trimtab cutout in the left
elevator, when I had a revelation, no, a darn right vision! (At least
for me!) Is this bend perpendicular to the trim tab hinge line?? Could
it be that easy? Say it's so!
Hoping I answered my own question. I gotta stop talking to myself like
this!
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 Left elevator and trim tab
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marc DeGirolamo <mdee(at)dlcwest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: -4 &-8 underwing air inlet |
>>
>>The underwing inlet using the SV-kit
What did you use to attatch the vent to the wingskin.....proseal or rivets.?
Marc DeGirolamo
mdee(at)dlcwest.com
can..oh!....p---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: RV seats] |
Hi Michael,
I'm ready to order. Just let me know what the next step is.
Thanks,
Wally Hunt
RV4WGH(at)aol.com
815/332-4708
Rockford, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: -4 &-8 underwing air inlet |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Scott:
>Jeez- the ONE TIME I decide to tell the world I had an idea,...it
>turns out
>somebody else had it first. Aaargh. My mom told me that there would be
>days
>like this! My apologies, sir.
>
None necessary... like I said it wasn't my idea either. It was my idea
to try and develop it into a standard kit item. Some of the early RV-8
wing kit builders probably wondered why their kit had no info about
installing the vent. That is because when those first wing kits went out
we hadn't yet flown N58RV to allow doing any testing.
After we had verified that it worked fine (almost too good) it was added
into the kit. I can't remember for sure, but I think we even prepunch
the opening in the bottom skin now.
>I had thought I had come up with a nifty application because after
>viewing the
>-8 at one of its early airshows, I chided Bill about having put the
>scoop on
>the 'wrong' side.
I decided we should put it on the right side just as a safety precaution
for exhaust fumes. The prop wash spiral tends to be going around towards
the left side as it curls under the belly. This turned out to be no
factor though as we found out from the blue RV-8 prototype when it had a
airshow smoke system installed for a while. When flying tight formation
on it with the smoke on the exhaust stream wasn't even 18 in. in diam as
it passed the tail wheel.
He said that he told the shop guys to just put the
>thing in,
>without specifying left or right. When the gen mgr of Van's, Inc.
>tells me
>something, I tend to believe him. Heck, his desk is right over there-
>go ask
>him
Actually its about 1 1/2 miles from the engineering/prototype shop.
(as if at this point he doesn't have anything else on his
>mind...:-( ).
>
>But, if what you write is correct, I'd say that more than one of us
>figured
>out that the high pressure air is on the bottom! That Bernoulli guy
>was right!
Yup, which also helps prove how great an idea you had!
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: HVLP via Binks gun |
I have a wagner cap spray hvlp that I used to paint my RV4. I"ve also used a
regular spray gun. I swear by the hvlp!! You never run out of air. It is
extremely
portable. IT uses much less paint and gives a professional job with little
experience. As for resale value, I was going to sell it after I painted my
first a/c.
It has now painted 2 aircraft and I wouldn"t think of selling it!!!!
RV273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
QmaxLLC(at)aol.com wrote:
> That [4000 rpm on a rotary] is a very low stress condition
> and definately not comparable to a recip engine's 4000 rpm.
That's not a fair comparison. You should be comparing 6000 rpm on the
rotary to 2900 rpm on a Lycont.
You won't be running a rotary at 4000 rpm. It won't generate enough
power. (What engine *does* deliver *enough* power?) You'll need to run
the engine at 5000-6000 rpm, then reduce the shaft speed via a gearbox
(PSRU) to produce 2400-2900 rpm at the prop.
Not that that means a rotary isn't better than a Lycont -- just that
you should be using the right comparison to demonstrate it.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cleaning of Instrument Glass |
Listers; I have a couple of instruments, a VSI and a Turn and Bank, that have
a sort of cloudy look to them. Upon close examination I see that this
cloudiness is actually a film on the inside of the glass. Can these
instruments be disassembled and the glass cleaned and reassembled by us? Or
are they vacuum sealed? Or do they have to be sent to an Instrument shop? It
looks like about 5 tiny screws that hold the front portion of the instrument
together including the glass. Any tips? Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544 Skinning the fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
<< I heard that a Bonanza crashed the other day. Seems it came
apart in the air. There were no witnesses, so structural failure
was blamed. All Bonanza owners are apprehensive. It may just
be a rumor. >>
Was it the prototype?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Whitehouse <jmw(at)wco.com> |
In case anyone didn't know, Van's website is keeping a dedicated "button"
(link) to a site regarding details of the -8 accident. They'll probably
post there before any other list, I'd imagine. As of 6/2 they can't of
course say what happened, but acknowledge that it appears to be an
inflight airframe failure, though the subsequent impact damage makes it
difficult for Van to determine what went wrong. If anybody doesn't know,
their address is
>> vansaircraft.com <<
Keep the faith, and keep on building.
John -4 wings No. Calif
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Marshall" <Nigel_Marshall(at)meritorauto.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Glad I built 'em |
They did it on the prototype to determine for production which areas needed
to be flush-rivetted, and which could be rivetted with 470 type rivets
without reducing the top speed; the full story is in the autobiography of
the test pilot, Jeffery Quill.
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062)
Starting second wing
marshan(at)meritorauto.com
QmaxLLC(at)aol.com on 02/06/98 21:12:21
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Glad I built 'em
<<
VERY unscientific method of airflow analysis, but I can also see
places I need to improve on the coweling from the bug hits (as if I needed
them to know that), and the blister I made for the alternator bracked
aligns
exactly with bug bodies.>>>
----------
Don't count yourself out, Michael. Forensic science uses maggots and
flies
to determine time of death! >>
----------
Anybody know the whole story of the RAF gluing split peas to the wings of
the
Splitfire (oops!) Something to do with airflow analysis as I
remember...they
kept gluing them on to check airflow patterns.
Maybe they should have used Michael's BAFALED. (Bug Airflow Forensic
Analysis
and Laminar Evaluation Determinator) :-)
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVENDANA1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning of Instrument Glass |
If you are careful you can do this but there is a chance you may tear the
gasket for the glass depending on how old they are. Good Luck!
Dave Funk
Workin on elevators!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Pace <wbpace(at)adnc.com> |
| Subject: | Hitching a ride to Bakersfield from San Diego |
Is anyone flying to the Bakersfield Fly-In this weekend from the San Diego
area who needs some company on the trip? I haven't been in a light plane
in ages (years) while I've been building and it's too far to drive. OK, so
I'm begging, but I can't make it to OSH this year (or last year for that
matter) and I need my RV fix!
Replies to wbpace(at)adnc.com or calls to my machine at 619-549-8796 will
receive a warm welcome. :-)
-----
Bill Pace
San Diego, CA
wbpace(at)adnc.com
RV-6A Skinning left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
With all due respect to David Fox and his very excellent formula,
consider that it is not necessary to fly these tracks at 90 degrees etc
etc in order to compute TAS. All that is necessary is to record the
ground speed and track for ANY three legs. This is sufficient to resolve
wind speed and TAS.
I have written up a description of the calculation (with spreadsheet
formulae) required and Bob Nuckolls has been kind enough agree to put a
PDF version on his website. I expect Bob will drop a note on the 'list
when it is available.
Doug Gray
RV-6 LH elevator.
Sydney, OZ
> David Fox's GPS TAS formula, so here is
> a summary of his Feb 1995 Kitplanes article.
>
> Using GPS or Loran, fly straight and level flight on any track (not
> heading), record the ground speed, call it V1. Turn left or right to a
> track 90 degrees from the first, record the second ground speed and call it
> V2.
> Turn another 90 degrees in the same direction to a third track 180 degrees
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | Primer over Sealer |
I'm about ready to mount my gas tanks and wanted to prime the metal to
metal areas of the tank. Does anyone see any problem with some primer
overspray ending up on the tank sealer (Thiokol MC 236 B-2) on the tank
baffles or tank end ribs?
I'll be using either NAPA #7220 or Vari-Prime.
Thanks
Fran Malczynski
Olcott, NY
RV6 (Wings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
In a message dated 6/3/98 2:53:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, frankv(at)pec.co.nz
writes:
<< That's not a fair comparison. You should be comparing 6000 rpm on the
rotary to 2900 rpm on a Lycont. >>
I think everyone is getting all wrapped up in RPM as an indication of stress,
and you can only do that if you are comparing reciprocating to reciprocating.
Rotary engines do not have the severe acceleration/deceleration forces of a
reciprocating engine, therefore by the laws of physics, the stresses are not
necessarily the same. Rotary engines can (and do) see RPM's in the 15,000
range in race applications, but you better not try that with a piston engine.
If you want a fair comparison, you need to examine aspects of the dynamic
process that are common to both engines.
Regards Merle (more opinions than I can put in print) Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
John L. Switzer wrote:
> Carroll:
>
> If you look at the AVWEB web page, the "newswire" version of the story does
> contain the satement mentioned. The email version does not.
John:
I stand corrected, however I don't know where or how to receive the newswire.
This brings a few questions to my mind though. How does AvWeb know how to get
hold of RV-8 builders? How many of them did they poll? Of those polled how many
answered that they were apprehensive?
It seems to me that this is one of the ways those damned lies get started.
Regards --- Carroll
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Request
>Actually Bill said, "We would like to keep the rumors to a minimum and
intend to
>inform this group of any findings as soon as available. We would
appreciate people not
>speculating as to the cause of the accident." He also said "Although the
NTSB may
>take weeks or months to reach a conclusion, Van should be able to provide
some details
>by the end of the week." (posted 5/25) I don't believe we've heard
anything more from
>Van's since that post.
Besides starting an accident investigation, Vans and his employees had to
deal with the funeral of a colleague last week. What ya say we cut them
some slack?
Scott Gesele (Flying my 6A and wouldn't hesitate to jump into an 8)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
| Subject: | Titanium Tailwheel Strut |
I have a couple of titanium (grade 2) tailwheel struts. The titanium
struts are dimensionally the same as my RV-8 tailwheel strut (I assume
they are all the same size). I am not going into production with these
things (takes too much of my time to make these cost effectively).
However, I will take offers for the struts directly at jonesb(at)geon.com.
The weight savings is aproximately 1-lb 3-oz. Could be a real bonus for
a tailheavy plane! BTW, one of the struts is drilled and the other is
not.
Bryan Jones, Pearland, TX
RV-8 80313, attaching empenage to fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
| From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
Cute, Very Cute,
You say marketing is marketing and proceed to use slanderous
innuendo against Van's, then admit your not a business man.
I'd suggest your not much of a scientist either. You say "IF" the
structure, twice and" MAYBE" once, and then proceed to be an authority by
telling people to avoid allowing their friends and relatives to fly in
the machines. Well ,from the scientific standpoint, you don't know
anything about it. Just if's and maybe's, just like the rest of us. And
from the business standpoint you have just done a great job of trying to
destroy the company that builds our kits. Then you just spew this stuff
out to one thousand people and then have the gall to say you'll receive
flames privately. Well, this is a list of people who are sharing
information on how to build Van's kits and here you are posturing
yourself and at the same time destroying the very company we need. So I'd
like to say this. Shut up. If I here any more of this innuendo from you
I'll be on the phone to Matte Dralle asking if he can find you a
different list list for you to expound your "realism" on
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
<< Yesterday at our builders-group-pot-luck-rv-fly-in the guest of
honor was Bill Benedict from Vans flying the 8A. He gave demo rides to
Marketing is marketing and Science is Science.
Great rhetorical question and this was quite possibly an irresponsible
activity if the structures between this a/c and the prototype are
identical,
>condoning the taking of women and children up until I knew EXACTLY
what happened.
maybe there is a major difference (between the two a/c)that
I'll be happy to receive flames if put to me directly (not to the
list).
>-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)tivoli.com |
Gentleman,
There is so much useless non-technical, non-RV spam coming from this list
it diminishes the value of subscribing.
Please reread the RV list policies and abide to make it a better list.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | bondo and prepping |
What does one use to blend the fiberglass tips to the edges of the skins?
I seem to remember seeing something like Bondo...also, what is used to prep
the surface before adding primer? I currently use a cleaner from sherwin
williams for all my priming needs...is there anything to know about adding
primer on top of Bondo? (or the aircraft equivalant)
Thanks in advance..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab tabs |
jorear(at)mari.net wrote:
>
> Hi Fellow Rivet Rammers:
>
> I am about to go where this man has never gone before, and bend
> the
> tabs for the ends of the trim tab and the outboard side of the cutout
> for the trim tab in the left elevator. I am in a quandry as to where
> to
> make the bend for the tabs in the elevator. I see on the plans where
> the fold line should be for the trim tab, but not for the elevator. I
>
> want to make these bends so that the gap at the outboard edge of the
> trimtab and the elevator is even along its length.
>
> How did the group do this? I am thinking that the best way would
>
> be to do the bends in the trimtab, set the trim tab in place in the
> cutout in the elevator, and then transfer the angle the outboard end
> of the trim tab has to the tabs on the elevator. Sound like a plan,
> is there an easier way?
>
> This is all assuming that I don't mess up these bends and end up
> making little ribs anyway! Thought I would at least give it a college
>
> try. Thanks for the advice, group.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A 25171 left elevator and scary tab bends.
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
Jeff,
You might think about making some small ribs vs. bending. I did that
with mine and it came out very clean.
There should be posts in the archives concerning this.
Ed Cole
RV6A Fuselage ready to skin
Cupertino, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric Westland <ewestland(at)altavista.net> |
| Subject: | Split a mag kit? |
I am looking for someone that wants to split a Slick mag kit (2 new mags
plus a harness for each). The kits come with one impulse mag and one
non-impulse mag. I am using Jeff Rose's electronic ignition, so I only
need one, but you get the best buy if you buy a kit. If you are
thinking of doing the same, then this could save us both a few hundred
dollars on a new mag purchase, especially if you don't have a core.
I spoke with Jeff about this last weekend and his mag can easily be used
to start the engine and can go in either the left or right side. The
slight advantage of having the impulse mag is that starting would be
easier with it should the electronic unit quit. Other than that, it's
just a matter of being sure you have the mag that's correct for your
engine.
If you are interested, please e-mail me privately.
-eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
Larry Mac Donald wrote:
>
> Cute, Very Cute,
> You say marketing is marketing and proceed to use slanderous
> innuendo against Van's, then admit your not a business man.
> I'd suggest your not much of a scientist either. You say "IF" the
> structure, twice and" MAYBE" once, and then proceed to be an authority
> by
> telling people to avoid allowing their friends and relatives to fly in
>
> the machines. Well ,from the scientific standpoint, you don't know
> anything about it. Just if's and maybe's, just like the rest of us.
> And
> from the business standpoint you have just done a great job of trying
> to
> destroy the company that builds our kits. Then you just spew this
> stuff
> out to one thousand people and then have the gall to say you'll
> receive
> flames privately. Well, this is a list of people who are sharing
> information on how to build Van's kits and here you are posturing
> yourself and at the same time destroying the very company we need. So
> I'd
> like to say this. Shut up. If I here any more of this innuendo from
> you
> I'll be on the phone to Matte Dralle asking if he can find you a
> different list list for you to expound your "realism" on
> Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
>
Easy Larry, easy!
If you take the time to read what Gary said, and read it objectively
without emotion , he makes some good points.
We all respect Van and what he has created. I think we all want rush to
defend Van's and his products.
It's almost like someone said something bad about your Dad!
I suspect if you owned a car that had a potential serious defect, you
would demand information
and expect the manufacturer to investigate and possibly suspend
production on his product.
I know Gary, although not that well, but I have come to respect his
style and ideas. He is one of the more conscientious
builders I know and his aircraft reflects this. If you have been on
this list for some time you'll find that Gary seldom
replies unless he has something beneficial to input.( Besides this, he
is a good friend of Matt Dalle and they are located
at the same airport. So good luck getting him off of the list)
Let's all lighten up about this until the facts are in.
This has been a tough week for all of us with the RV8 crash, the Papa 51
crash, and the Warrior II I flew
last a week ago Tues. crashed Friday and killed all 4 on board.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Does anyone on the list know if a c/s Hartzell prop from a 1967 Mooney
M20C will work on an RV - 6?
I have noticed that Van sells a compact hub prop. What's the
significance of this and is the Mooney prop a compact hub. Do some c/s
props have G load restrictions.
Any help will be appreciated.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince S. Himsl" <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: trim tab tab |
Hello,
I took a small carpenters square, rested it on the edge of the skin where
the trim tab hinge goes and marked a line to center of the notch at the tip
of the tab to be bent. My skin had a note telling me that the
semi-circular notch at the corner was not at required depth. My line
showed this to be true. Thus I deepened the notch and did the bend.
Frankly I had more trouble with the actual bending of the tab than with
marking it.
I have just finished the Left Elevator + trim tab and my alignment worked
out according to
plans... notice I didn't say perfect :)
Vince Himsl
RV8 Wings
Moscow, Idaho
>
>Hi group, its me again:
>
> Was just doing some head-scratching about where to put the bend
>lines for the tabs at the outboard end of the trimtab cutout in the left
>elevator, when I had a revelation, no, a darn right vision! (At least
>for me!) Is this bend perpendicular to the trim tab hinge line?? Could
>it be that easy? Say it's so!
>
>
>Hoping I answered my own question. I gotta stop talking to myself like
>this!
>
>
>Regards,
>Jeff Orear
>RV6A 25171 Left elevator and trim tab
>Peshtigo, WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lets Respect Bill Benedict*s_ Request -Reply |
Listers,
I am whole heartly agreed with Scott Gesele. Let's try to keep the
rumors and speculations to the minimum. I am sure that we will be
informed when the facts are available.
I have lots of respect for Van, Bill and their organization and I would not
hesitate to take a demo ride in an 8.
T.Nguyen, PE
Analysis Engineering Manager
Fuselage in jig.
>>> Scott Gesele 06/03/98 08:07am >>>
>Actually Bill said, "We would like to keep the rumors to a minimum and
intend to
>inform this group of any findings as soon as available. We would
appreciate people not
>speculating as to the cause of the accident." He also said "Although
the
NTSB may
>take weeks or months to reach a conclusion, Van should be able to
provide
some details
>by the end of the week." (posted 5/25) I don't believe we've heard
anything more from
>Van's since that post.
Besides starting an accident investigation, Vans and his employees had
to
deal with the funeral of a colleague last week. What ya say we cut them
some slack?
Scott Gesele (Flying my 6A and wouldn't hesitate to jump into an 8)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Kerr <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
I agree with the quote from Merle below, except that some race piston
engines do see around 16,000rpm, if I remember correctly. F1 engines. The
valve springs were the limiting factor and now they use air pressure
instead.
>reciprocating engine, therefore by the laws of physics, the stresses are not
>necessarily the same. Rotary engines can (and do) see RPM's in the 15,000
>range in race applications, but you better not try that with a piston engine.
>If you want a fair comparison, you need to examine aspects of the dynamic
>process that are common to both engines.
>
-Ian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
Sorry, but I've got to agree with GV on this one. If one of two
prototype aircraft broke up in flight for no apparent reason, you bet your
ass the Air Force would ground the other until the reason is found. If Van
landed in the street in front of my office right now, I wouldn't hesistate
to jump in and take a ride, but I would not allow my girlfriend or sister to
get in the plane.
On the other hand, I know that Van has no bad intentions here. If there
is a problem, it will be resolved. Van may also know something that we do
not. Maybe the airframe wasn't the problem. We will probably not get any
hard info until the next RVator.
Flame me all you want, on or off list.
Moe Colontonio
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
>
>Cute, Very Cute,
> You say marketing is marketing and proceed to use slanderous
>innuendo against Van's, then admit your not a business man.
>I'd suggest your not much of a scientist either. You say "IF" the
>structure, twice and" MAYBE" once, and then proceed to be an authority by
>telling people to avoid allowing their friends and relatives to fly in
>the machines. Well ,from the scientific standpoint, you don't know
>anything about it. Just if's and maybe's, just like the rest of us. And
>from the business standpoint you have just done a great job of trying to
>destroy the company that builds our kits. Then you just spew this stuff
>out to one thousand people and then have the gall to say you'll receive
>flames privately. Well, this is a list of people who are sharing
>information on how to build Van's kits and here you are posturing
>yourself and at the same time destroying the very company we need. So I'd
>like to say this. Shut up. If I here any more of this innuendo from you
>I'll be on the phone to Matte Dralle asking if he can find you a
>different list list for you to expound your "realism" on
>Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
>
><< Yesterday at our builders-group-pot-luck-rv-fly-in the guest of
>honor was Bill Benedict from Vans flying the 8A. He gave demo rides to
>
> Marketing is marketing and Science is Science.
>
>Great rhetorical question and this was quite possibly an irresponsible
>activity if the structures between this a/c and the prototype are
>identical,
>
>>condoning the taking of women and children up until I knew EXACTLY
>what happened.
> maybe there is a major difference (between the two a/c)that
>
>
> I'll be happy to receive flames if put to me directly (not to the
>list).
>>-GV
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Titanium tie-downs |
Anybody know where Randy Simpson is ? Trying to reach him about those neat
tie-downs. Please reply if you have
info.................Thanks......Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
Or maybe you are just kidding???
All Bonanza owners with the V tail are apprehensive and have been for years.
They have had tails fall off - on rare occasion. There is a 'fix' but then when
overstressed the wings come off.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> I heard that a Bonanza crashed the other day. Seems it came
> apart in the air. There were no witnesses, so structural failure
> was blamed. All Bonanza owners are apprehensive. It may just
> be a rumor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | resteffe(at)dukeengineering.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection Heat Problems---Help! |
I've also have a bit of a heat problem with my injected RV-6. When going to
near idle to slow down enough to lower the flaps, the engine sometimes cuts
out a little. Add some throttle and it smooths out. However, it does get my
attention. I turn on the fuel pump when I start to slow down and leave it
on until I shut down at the hanger. No trouble restarting after being
heat-soaked, but I have a purge valve just ahead of the flow divider on top
of the engine. I can recirculate cool fuel through the fuel lines and fuel
controller before starting. Runs a little rough taxing out to take off, but
after a runup it has always been smooth on takeoff. I have a forward
pointing fuel controller with the intake horn just below the prop. I also
have a crossover exhaust above the fuel contoller. I made a shield and
wrapped the pipes to help control the heat. I probably should have used
4-into-1 exhaust. I still can try enclosing the mechanical fuel pump and
cooling with a blast tube and rerouting the fuel line from the pump to the
fuel controller. I hadn't thought of the fuel boiling in the little tubes
to the injectors on top of the engine. If you insulate these somehow, let
us know how it worked.
Dick Steffens, RV-6, flying, North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Listers, I've been wrestling with the canopy for a couple of days. Here
are some parameters I'm working with. Tell me if I'm close enough for
cutting the bottom edges and prepping for the cut at the roll bar.
1. Total length is 65.5". It's resting with the front about 1" behind the
front edge of the canopy skin and about 1" inside the F674 skin. I've
read that 1" is OK at the front. I've allowed a bit more skin at the rear
so that I could have a nice fit where it meets the sides. Also some
warm fuzzy room, if needed. I had more before I cut some skin to make
the canopy fit better.
2. There is a gap of about .25" at the center of the canopy on the
cabin frame. It seems easy enough to push down and appears to be
just the way the canopy is formed. It's round where the frame is flat.
The sides are fitting right in when pushed in. It fits nicely around the
curved parts, too.
3. Because cutting at the front was not making any difference at the
back, we tried wedging the center of the rear edge of the canopy up
against the skin. It looked great and didn't seem to make any
difference at the cabin frame. We weren't sure it was OK to do that;
but, it sure made better sense than cutting when not needed.
4. Sides were pushed in to be sure front fit was OK. Still need to trim
around the front corners to blend into the side rails. Other than that, it
seems to be lying flat enough with the sides pushed in.
5. Based upon the fit above, a line was drawn on each side's bottom
for the final fit cuts. That line sort of runs uphill toward the rear. The
difference is about .5" from front to rear.
OK, does it sound like I'm on the right track?
Because of earlier discussions on the list, I know I can do the cut at
the cabin frame for a better fit. I may opt to do that.
What about the angle between the canopy (front to rear) and the cabin
frame? We noticed there is quite a gap at the front edge of the cabin
frame when we pressed down the canopy to the canopy frame. The
frame angle is right on, too. Is this normal? We couldn't see any way
to get the angle much better without dropping the cabin frame back at
the top and doing a lot of cutting up front. Neither idea seemed good.
What do you do about the gap above when you rivet the rear window
to the cabin frame? I realize the rivet line is further back on the cabin
frame; but, I have about a 1/16" gap at the front edge of the rear
window if I leave it that way. I read where someone cut his a bit further
back on the cabin frame.
How much space is there between the front canopy and the rear
window along the cut line? This might help some of the above in my
thinking process. I haven't seen any comments about how far to
space the two sections from each other. I know a strip of glass is
placed over the top to form a seal, sort of.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael V Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop question |
> Ken, I took the prop and engine out of a 62 mooney and istalled it in the rv6
it will work fine. It has a 74 inch prop which is 2 inches longer than what van
sells but you will still have plenty of prop clearance. Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | electrical noise |
I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets,
particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight
fluctuation in my volt meter.
Any ideas on what this is and how it can be corrected?
Thanks in advance,
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Igor Braginsky <garry@pepper> |
Subject: Request for quotation
From: bol(at)theboll.com
Att. Sales / Export Department
Re: Request for quotation
A "RFQ" for products which, to the best of our knowledge are similar to
those offered by you, was placed with us by one of our clients.
We are a world wide sourcing firm and we are paid by our clients to
find them suitable suppliers .
To you ,our service is totally free of charge !!!
The information we will get from you will not only be immediately sent
to this particular client but also to all other clients looking for
similar products.
To define and advise us the products you are interested to export
and/or to get more information about us and our FREE SERVICE , please
use our Internet interface at: http://www.thebol.com
Best Regards
BOL sourcing international Ltd
Purchasing department
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab tabs |
jorear(at)mari.net wrote:
>
>
> Hi Fellow Rivet Rammers:
>
> I am about to go where this man has never gone before, and bend the
> tabs for the ends of the trim tab and the outboard side of the cutout
> for the trim tab in the left elevator. I am in a quandry as to where to
> make the bend for the tabs in the elevator. I see on the plans where
> the fold line should be for the trim tab, but not for the elevator. I
> want to make these bends so that the gap at the outboard edge of the
> trimtab and the elevator is even along its length.
>
> How did the group do this? I am thinking that the best way would
> be to do the bends in the trimtab, set the trim tab in place in the
> cutout in the elevator, and then transfer the angle the outboard end
> of the trim tab has to the tabs on the elevator. Sound like a plan, or
> is there an easier way?
>
> This is all assuming that I don't mess up these bends and end up
> making little ribs anyway! Thought I would at least give it a college
> try. Thanks for the advice, group.
>
The elevator tabs are bent perpendicular the the hingeline and so is the
corresponding ;eft tabs on the trim tab. I bent the elevator tabs
first, then the mating trim tab tabs. Positioned the trim tab in
place(at least 1/8" gap) and then lined up a ruler with the right side
elevator skin and continued it on the right side of the trim tab and
drew a reference line on the trim tab for bending. Tab came out lined
up real nice. I used the bending method described in 18 years of
RVator.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
<< How many of them did they poll? >>
I have NEVER been polled on anything, but I always hear the results. What a
joke.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
22>
<3.0.1.16.19980602084835.0a0fbcea(at)dtc.net>
>
>Listers, I've been wrestling with the canopy for a couple of days. Here
>are some parameters I'm working with. Tell me if I'm close enough for
>cutting the bottom edges and prepping for the cut at the roll bar.
Jim,
I am not sure which aircraft you are building but if it is a slider 6 where
I have some experience then the best tip I got came from Scott McDaniels (I
think). This tip was to get under the canopy and frame out on the front
lawn and jiggle the two around until they mate. All the canopies I have
seen have been able to achieve this (no one has had to cut the top bar).
The mounting of the frame is fairly flexible (you can jack up the front
with washers and the rear has the skins to cover a fairly wide tolerance
range). You can put masking tape on all the bars to help see where contact
is occurring.
The next good tip is to not get obsessive about anything until you cut off
the windscreen. The junction of the canopy and screen will have a fairing
over it so that small angulations will not be apparent. The shape of the
main canopy relaxes considerably when the front comes off!
The last good tip (Gil Alexander I think) is to cut little bits at a time.
Accept the fact that you will spend a weekend with your cut off wheel. My
daughter turned 459 quarter inch strips of plexi into a nice mobile for her
art class. As the pressure comes off and the plexi relaxes it can be
difficult to predict where relationships will change (just like real life
really).
Hope the above helps,
Leo Davies
6A antennae (where does everyone else run those coaxs?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
I hope people who are posting on this RV-8 crash thread realize that
this stuff goes to hundreds of people, any one of whom could end up
being a reporter, attorney, investigator or what have you, who might
be inclined to use our bickering or speculation in or out of context
for their own purposes. If this happened it could very well be
damaging to Van's Aircraft, RV builders, experimental aircraft
builders in general, or GA overall. Case in point: I'm afraid to see
what AVWEB might have to say about RV builders' apprehensions NEXT
week.
I'm not trying to tell anyone not to talk about it, although
personally I prefer to wait till the people investigating it have had
time to give us some results. I just think people should be more
careful about what they say on a public list like this.
Randall Henderson, RV-6
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
<< I'll be happy to receive flames if put to me directly (not to the
list). >>
I do not believe that GV left an E-mail address. Also, I must add that I
"know"
that Van's and his staff are not getting filthy rich from their hard work, and
I can say (no maybe or if in this statement) that they absolutely care about
the safety of those who build from Van's kits.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Crash snippet from Avweb |
Wendell---
Will take $50,000 for my kit. Please send money as soon as possible as I think
all Rv's are doomed unless we get a response from headquarters!
Don't you think intelligent people want to arrange their own destiny?????
Hope this isn't to strong!
Dave---
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lowrance/Nav-Aid coupling |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Kevin,
I have been using a Lowrance GPS coupled to a Nav-Aid with great success
for about a year now. My system uses a Smart Coupler II and not the built
in unit which I assume that you are using. The II has a Green LED that
lights when it is receiving valid info from the GPS. I don't know if the
built -in unit has this. My Lowrance is set up for NMEA ver.2.0 on, all
DGPS outputs off, and all sentences on. Only 2 wires are used on the NEMA
output cable from the GPS. The white wire is data output and goes to pin
2 (On the Smart Coupler II), The shield is ground and goes to pin 3.
Hope this helps. If it solves your problem, give the ride to a "Young
Eagle"----I live in Florida.
Regards, Bill, RV4, N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig "G." Nelson <cgn(at)pond.net> |
I attended our RV builders group meeting at the Creswell Airport, OR
Monday. I stood out near the runway and watched airplanes arrive
and depart, and was astonished to see N58VA approach and land.
Mr. Benedict flew that airplane down to give us demo rides. I figured
if Bill flew that RV8A down to see us dispite the events of last week,
then I would have no problem taking a ride. That is one great plane.
I was amazed at the performance and stability of this plane. On one
part of the ride I was looking straight down at the ground. I still
cannot stop thinking about it. Build on you Rv-8 guy as I think Van's
still has a lot of confidence in this airplane.
Craig Nelson
RV-6 serial # 25101
cgn(at)pond.net
Eugene, OR
wings finished!
Installing ailerons and flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
Listers,
I've been reading the thread on the list about the 8 crash, it's possible
causes,
and implications that Van may have marketed a product for monitory considerations
before it was ready for production. Well here's my 2 cents. Don't want no atta-boys,
don't want no flames, just my 2 cents.
When I first started building my 4 (1988) I remember if you weighed over 170
lbs., Van called you fat and told you to buy someone else's airplane. When we
wanted electric flaps he said we didn't need them because the only motors available
weighed too much for HIS airplane. When we wanted constant speed propellers he
said we didn't need those either. Most of the changes I've seen in the last ten
years
have come because WE wanted them, not Van. This includes the RV-8 ( fat man's
RV-4 ). In all my dealings with the man I can't say I ever thought for a minute
that
he would sell anything he didn't believe in. Although I don't know him that well
I've
staked my life on his reputation and airplane for 6 yrs. To think he would market
something only for money's sake is unrealistic and has no credibility.
We'll find out eventually what happened to the RV-8. It may be design error,
it may be the pilot or it may be both. God knows, it's happened a thousand
times before and it'll happen a thousand times again. If we all folded tent each
time an airplane went down or a famous pilot got killed we'd never get in an
airplane.
If a mistake has been made ( RV-3 wing spars, RV-4 engine mount pads too
thin) it will be corrected. It's a shame these things happen but we all know it
will. I just can't think of anyone other than Van that has met the challenges,
which for the most part was put on him by US, the consumer of a great product.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
On 3 Jun 98, at 9:17, Larry Mac Donald wrote:
> You ... use slanderous innuendo against Van's,
...
7F00,0000,0000> I'd suggest your not much of a scientist
either.
...
>Well ,from the scientific standpoint, you don't know anything7F00,0000,0000
about it.
..
> 7F00,0000,0000you have just done a great job of trying
to destroy the company that builds our kits.
...
7F00,0000,0000> So I'd like to say this. Shut up. If I here
any more of this innuendo from you I'll be on the phone
> to Matte Dralle asking if he can find you a different list list for you to
> expound your "realism" on Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
Larry,
In stark contrast to your venomous, hysterical post, Gary has a long history of
reasoned, insightful contributions to the list. I would describe Gary's recent
post as a series of reasonable questions and observations framed in a
responsible context. I posit that such a post will not elicit an ad hominem
attack from responsible adults who aren't afraid of honest inquiry into the
truth.
Tim Lewis
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Wootton" <wcw(at)calweb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 confidence |
STOP!!!!!!
Wait until the report comes out!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Injection Heat Problems---Help! |
Dick,
Sounds like you have the airflow performance system. I have it on my RV4
and
have had no problems with it quitting in the pattern like you describe.
I have blast air cooling on the boost pump assbly (mounted on eng mt x
tubes)
and engine boost pump. I also wraped the nozzle lines and the line from
the purge
valve to the flow divider with silicone gyline tape. this tape bonds to it
self likeyou
wouldn"t believe. I have found that after rollout I have to lean to smooth
and I
ALWAYS USE THE BOOST PUMP FOR TAKEOFF AND LANDING. I have
operated from 7000 ft to sea level with out ever adjusting anything.
RV4 273sb CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
dropping in to Scappoose the other day to buy some more of that great
$1.69/gal 100 LL I noticed that Giles had a new project out on the ramp.
What a beast, literally. Three fat paddles driven by a turbine and best of
all was the modified rudder. It had this extra sort of claw on it, like
maybe a bat might have on it's wing. Very Flash Gordon looking, very cool,
even though it was still all carbon fiber black color. Definitely looks
like aero mag material. Hopefully it will do better than the Thunder
Mustang. I know I'm having lots of fun in my $30k airplane but that one,
well, we couldn't even afford the prop now could we? kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
I'm sending this after giving careful thought. 1st of all, Good article
Gary.. And also read doug Rozendaal's post....
The group I hang around with thinks of this very subject quite often.
The thing in your hands that can break any airplane is the "wing removal
lever". About the Stearman, I don't think Lloyd Stearman ever paid the
money but there have been many Stearmans break in flight from over
"G"...Most that I am familiar with Precessional loads as a result of
high G loading that ripped the engine or propellers off with
catastrophic end results. (death)
Having been in the competition circuit for about 8 years, I got a good
chance to see a common direct effect of constant High G loadings. This
is the rapid wear out of airplanes. The more you work them the more care
and repair they require. Not to forget that Aluminum does not "forget"
when you over stress it either. It can only bend so many times until it
breaks. If we are lucky, we will simply find a little broken place that
needs repaired. But, maybe we won't find the little broken place until
it combines with another break to produce catastrophic results.
I recently talked with a person who had an RV3 that he didn't build. I
asked if the wings were modified and he said he wasn't sure, but didn't
think they were. I told him to please don't do any Acro in it until he
could verify it or not. He replied that he only done an occassional loop
or a roll. HMmmm...
As I become familiar with my RV6 project and study the plans, I am
getting very confident in it as a well designed airplane. It is strong
and if well built, it should last a long time. As for aerobatics, I
would reserve that one for the imagination. Can I do the sportsman or
intermediate sequence in it, probably after I become familiar with it.
Will I? No. I have about a thousand hours inverted time and about five
years of real concentrated Acro flying. I really don't think it is the
right kind of plane for that type of flying even tho' the feel is good.
Keep in mind that many of these airplanes are being built by very crafty
people who haven't yet learned how to fly. "Soon" (4 or 5 years down the
road) the little jewel is done and the builder has gotten his license
and is happily flying his little honey on a Sunday afternoon. One day he
thinks it is time to teach himself aerobatics. The response is so good,
the roll was flawless, let's do it again... Nothing to it. And so it
goes.. Sorry for the soapbox, but I want everyone to enjoy this
great airplane.
Phil Sisson '84 IAC & US National Sportsman champion
'85 IAC & US National Intermediate champion
'89 L. Paul Soucy award... and then I
quit.
Not patting myself on the back, just trying to keep some planes
together...
Gary wrote:
>
>
> The number is not the only thing that is important. I find
> that
> most sport aviation enthusiasts I talk to do not understand the
> G-Limit
> restrictions put on aircraft.
>
> The published G-Limits on most aircraft that we build are the
> symmetric G-Limits for the airframe. This insures that no wing will
> see
> more G than it can handle. It is actually pretty easy to over G an
> aircraft if it is out of rig or you do not do a symmetric (i.e.
> straight
> back or forward) pull on the stick with no rudder.
>
> If you think you have not over G'ed the airframe because your
> $200 G-Meter shows 6 Gs, in reality you could have put 9 to 12 or more
>
> Gs on one of your wings, if a symmetric pull was not accomplished.
> The
> amazing thing is that most folks think that $200 G meter protects them
>
> from over G (look I only pulled 6 Gs!!!). It got so bad in the Air
> Force that a special equipment is now onboard all real airplanes
> (fighters) that the pilot cannot reset from the cockpit.
>
> It is a natural tendency in a center stick aircraft as the G
> load increases for the stick to move to one side or the other
> depending
> on the hand that is on the control stick.
>
> Just my .02 cents!
>
> Gary Fesenbek
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Engines strength & RPMs (was: Rotary engines in RVs |
Hi all,
The reliability of an engine is related to many more things than the RPMs it
operates at, as most of you probably know. I didn't realize how many till I got
to studying engines for my 6A.
Modern metals and lubricants have greatly extended the strength of engines.
Modern methods of precision measurement and production improve the ability to
take higher stresses and last longer while doing it.
In one of my auto conversion books, there is a picture of a racing Chevy V6 that
produces over 500 hp. I could put one of them in my RV and probably win lotsa
time to climb races! At this rate, the Lycoming 360 would be putting out over
700 hp! It can't hold up under the loads, even if bags of money were spent on
it to convert it to racing status. However, the Lyc has a good chance of
chugging along reliably for 2000 hours. The 500 hp racing V6 had a TBO of ten
hours! Still, ten hours could win a lot of time to climbs. Each engine has its
own virtues and vices - each is designed to meet a certain need.
The rotary RX7 engines have a pair of rotors in sorta rounded triangle shapes
that do the four cycle thing - the suck, squeeze, bang, ptuii. They are rolling
around in a triangular chamber while turning the crankshaft which is slightly
eccentric. Someone has a web page with a running cut-away rotary engine.
Another web page has a stationary diesel that is redlined at 140 rpm. That's
one hundred forty! It has a bore of about three feet as I remember.
If the durability of my RV V6 is only 500 hours, I'll be happy as parts of very
high quality are quite cheap. You can get a new set of high quality pistons
with pins and rings for the price of a Lycoming exhaust valve! If the engine
turns out to be much less reliable than it is in millions of road vehicles, I'll
be pulling it out. Likewise if I can't beat the socks off any four cylinder
Lycoming RV! :-)
At 7500 feet, a 240 hp engine puts out 180 hp max. A 180 puts out 135. Will
this double the climb ability at this altitude? How does one determine how much
power is required for level flight?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Looking for an airport
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | Flap Blown Fuse...WHY? |
One explanation for blown fuses for the flaps - I put some clear tape on
the forward edge of the flap, so it would not get scratched. At some stage
past full flaps, the edge of the tape goes past the upper skin of the wing,
and then the flap cannot be lifted. In my case it is not a problem, as the
flap is never lowered that far, unless I am removing it, but I am sure the
fuse would blow if the flaps were being retracted.
Incidentally I recommend using the clear tape, rather than the stainless
steel tape, which itself becomes scratched.
John Cocker RV6A 150 hours
Newmarket Ontario
a turbine and best of
all was the modified rudder. It had this extra
sort of claw on it, like
maybe a bat might have on it's wing. Very Flash
Gordon looking, very cool,
even though it was still all carbon fiber black
color. Definitely looks
like aero mag material. Hopefully it will do
better than the Thunder
Mustang. I know I'm having lots of fun in my $30k
airplane but that one,
well, we couldn't even afford the prop now could
we? kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sylvan Adamson <sadamson(at)cyberhighway.net> |
When the RV-8 factory plane crashed and Bill Benedict posted that Van's
would inform us of what they find I had a signed and noterized licence
agreement and order for an RV-8 on my desk with a check. It made it as far
as the dash of my truck and I decided to wait and see what they had to say.
Since that time I've been checking posts on the list to see if there was
any usefull information and waiting to hear from Van's as promised. Not
pushing Van's. The only thing I can say is. Don't most of you people
posting on this subject have anything to do? Don't you have planes to
build? While this list provides some great information, trying to sort it
out sometimes can give a person a case of the drizzles. To me it's become
not worth it. SA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Countersink cutter for RV-8 wing spar |
RV-Listers,
I am sitting here in Wichita trying to figure out if I have all the tools I
need to start my RV-8 wings whenever I make it back home. I am staring at
the preview plans, but I can't look at any hardware because it is back in
Ottawa.
Will I need the special countersink cutter that Avery's sells for cutting
clearance in the wing spar for the dimpled tank skins? This cutter is 1/2
inch diameter, and has a #30 pilot. I already have a 3/8 diameter cutter
with a #30 pilot.
Thanks for your advice,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (getting ready to start wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Getting ready to work on the spars and I noticed a reference on the
plans to SK-37. What is it and where is it????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
Andy, I had the same problem. Tried changing to electronic alternator
voltage regulator, shifted intercom and all plugs and sockets and controls
to behind the seat. Took supply off isolating solenoid on battery which is
behind the seat. Then noticed that when the engine revs were below 2000,
the noise disappeared completly. So as my alt. puts out far more amps than
I could ever use I put a larger pulley on the alternator (about 3.75
inches). Have not had a problem since. I notice Van's sell a larger pulley,
I suspect that would fix your problem . Good luck, Brian
----------
> From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: electrical noise
> Date: Thursday, June 04, 1998 4:19 AM
>
>
> I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets,
> particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight
> fluctuation in my volt meter.
>
> Any ideas on what this is and how it can be corrected?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Andy
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David and Beth Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
>I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets,
>particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight
>fluctuation in my volt meter.
>
>Any ideas on what this is and how it can be corrected?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Andy
>
I get a little "tick" in the intercom from the transponder, especially when
the altitude encoder is on. I also get a fluctuation in the amp meter when
the strobes are on, but that's it. There is a high grade of coax available
that may fix the problem, it is mentioned in the "Aeroelectric Connection"
book by Bob Nuckells (sp?).
Dave, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lane' Mail" <lsherrill(at)mindspring.com> |
I am determined the RV-8 is an aircraft suitable for building, for AT
LEAST one reason. The RV aircraft are beautifully designed aircraft. It
takes a AI or AP degree of excellence (or someone dedicated to PROPER
construction) to construct this bird. I am and WILL build the RV-8A because
RV represents the best in Customer response and with this web site also
represents the best in user experience. I do not have ANY problem with
Van's designs -- but it must be constructed according to proper plans.
I have ordered pre-plans for the the RV-8A, yet not have received the
plans--I am not critical, as the resolution of the auger is far more
important than me salivating. Once Van has determined the cause of the
'incident', I have no problem with the plans being delivered.
Van, you and your staff, take your time. The RV aircraft are a beautiful
sight to see while cutting through the atmosphere!!!!
With Best Regards,
Lane Sherrill
NEW RV-8A builder and damned sure of my choice!
-----Original Message-----
From: Sylvan Adamson <sadamson(at)cyberhighway.net>
Date: Wednesday, 3 June 1998 22:59
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 crash
>
>When the RV-8 factory plane crashed and Bill Benedict posted that Van's
>would inform us of what they find I had a signed and noterized licence
>agreement and order for an RV-8 on my desk with a check. It made it as far
>as the dash of my truck and I decided to wait and see what they had to say.
>Since that time I've been checking posts on the list to see if there was
>any usefull information and waiting to hear from Van's as promised. Not
>pushing Van's. The only thing I can say is. Don't most of you people
>posting on this subject have anything to do? Don't you have planes to
>build? While this list provides some great information, trying to sort it
>out sometimes can give a person a case of the drizzles. To me it's become
>not worth it. SA
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | aileron torq tube hole |
How close is too close concerning the top of the aileron torq tube hole in the
rear spar of the RV-8. ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning of Instrument Glass |
>Listers; I have a couple of instruments, a VSI and a Turn and Bank, that have
>a sort of cloudy look to them. Upon close examination I see that this
>cloudiness is actually a film on the inside of the glass. Can these
>instruments be disassembled and the glass cleaned and reassembled by us? Or
>are they vacuum sealed? Or do they have to be sent to an Instrument shop? It
>looks like about 5 tiny screws that hold the front portion of the instrument
>together including the glass. Any tips? Thanks.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 #544 Skinning the fuse
If your aircraft is IFR certified then you *MUST* have the instrument
tested and re-certified by an instrument shop. If it is VFR then you are
probably "home free" with the FEDs since you are "experimenting". The
static system also runs the encoder for the Mode C, and if you booger up
the seal on the VSI you may get odd readings from the altitude readout.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Titanium tie-downs |
Corsair wrote:
>
>
> Anybody know where Randy Simpson is ? Trying to reach him about those neat
> tie-downs. Please reply if you have
> info.................Thanks......Austin.
>
Hi Austin,
Randy sent me an email last week , stating he was sorry for the delay in
shipping me
the tie-downs I ordered. He is on the MOAT (mother of all trips) that he
speaks
about on his web page.
Try him again in a week or so.
Gene Angell
RV6 N242GA (reserved)
fuselage construction just begun in St.Louie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lowrance/Nav-Aid coupling |
> I have been using a Lowrance GPS coupled to a Nav-Aid with great success
> for about a year now. My system uses a Smart Coupler II and not the built
> in unit which I assume that you are using. The II has a Green LED that
> lights when it is receiving valid info from the GPS. I don't know if the
> built -in unit has this. My Lowrance is set up for NMEA ver.2.0 on, all
> DGPS outputs off, and all sentences on. Only 2 wires are used on the NEMA
> output cable from the GPS. The white wire is data output and goes to pin
> 2 (On the Smart Coupler II), The shield is ground and goes to pin 3.
> Hope this helps. If it solves your problem, give the ride to a "Young
> Eagle"----I live in Florida.
>
conversation today with nav-aid revealed that I need a set of jumper wires
which are output from the interpreter board to the regular panel mount
input pins, since no internal connections exist. I'll check that out next
trip out, although I don't remember putting them in. He told me to turn
the sentences off, so I don't know if that will make any difference. My
Lowrance is the 300 which I believe just came out. Thanks for the reply.
I've given several rides and finally had my first "chucker". 10 seconds
from touchdown, he puked right thru the mic which now isn't working too
well! kevin
>
> Regards, Bill, RV4, N66WD
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
>
>I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets,
>particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight
>fluctuation in my volt meter.
>
>Any ideas on what this is and how it can be corrected?
>
Is the noise synchronous with the strobe flashes? Does
the noise go away with the turning off of any single
accessory? Does the noise go away if you're operating
battery only . . . alternator off?
>>Andy, I had the same problem. Tried changing to electronic alternator
>>voltage regulator, shifted intercom and all plugs and sockets and controls
>>to behind the seat. Took supply off isolating solenoid on battery which is
>>behind the seat. Then noticed that when the engine revs were below 2000,
>>the noise disappeared completly. So as my alt. puts out far more amps than
>>I could ever use I put a larger pulley on the alternator (about 3.75
>>inches). Have not had a problem since. I notice Van's sell a larger pulley,
>>I suspect that would fix your problem . Good luck, Brian
Slowing the alternator down increases field current (more
heat) and slows down the fan (less cooling) and shouldn't
be necessary. If the noise IS coming from the alternator
itself, changing the regulator is an inexpensive thing to
try. What regulator are you using currently?
When you said 'development' do I undestand that this is a
new condition that didn't exist previously? How old is the
battery in the airplane? What size and technology (flooded,
RG?)
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy and silicone? |
Refresh my memory, please.
Is it safe to use silicone caulk near/on plexiglas?
I'm thinking of using a thin layer on the skin/canopy intersection, to
keep water out.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
Getting ready to work on the spars and I noticed a reference on the
plans to SK-37. What is it and where is it????
Hi Jerry
The SK- diagrams (does the SK mean sketch?) are in the pre-build plans book
and they are not necessarily in numerical order. It appears to be a older
numbering system for the diagrams and not all the references in the
instructions have been updated to the numbers used with the plans figures.
For example Figure 7-2 in my RV-6 plans is the same diagram as SK-37 is in
the pre-build plans, unfortunately the instructions sometimes refer to the
SK number instead of the Figure number.
All this head scratching can be legally counted as building time and I am
going for the "high time award".
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
6-A completing fuel tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trevor Mills <tmills(at)powerup.com.au> |
Hi listeners
I have a Garmin model 55 AVD hand held GPS. I have been using it for some time
now in a cradle with power supplied from the aircraft system. I have just tried
to use it with it's own batteries with no go.
I have checked the output of the batteries, all OK at 6.03 volts
also cleaned the contacts all looks OK. Now have connected by to aircraft power
and it works still
I would like to use this with a data logger in a glider.
Any help would be great.
Trevor Mills.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
The "SK" drawings are sketches in the construction manual.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
Getting ready to work on the spars and I noticed a
reference on the
plans to SK-37. What is it and where is it????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Flap Blown Fuse...WHY? |
Thank you for all the replies on the list regarding my flap fuse problem.
Yesterday when I flew I checked the amperage draw on the flap circuit. On
the ground, no load, the system drew a constant one amp, up and down. In the
air at 100 mph, it increased to almost 5 amps at full flaps. Bob Nuckolls
suggested using a 7 amp fuse and I will try that for now.
The RV bunch are a great group of guys, Terry Jantzi flew hi RV6 in
last night to give me a 5 amp circuit breaker, no charge! I will wait for a
while to install it as I am still interested in solving this fuse problem. I
am using the automotive blade type fuses and according to my supplier there
is no slow blow version of this type of fuse?
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter O'Brien" <petero(at)orbital.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
G'day Andy,
Those "clicks" you speak of , in my opinion, may be caused by
any number of things, check out the list below.
1. System voltage may be set too high, check the sys voltage,
ideally it should be around 13.8V, the theoretically maximum voltage
from a 6 cell lead acid battery, this includes gell cell (12V)
battery, at 1000 and at 1500 r.pm, I'm assuming that you are running
an alternator, there should be little or no increase in voltage.
2. Is your buss wiring to the battery sufficently heavy, 8# min.
3. Is the grnd connection to the battery good enough, I generally
use 1" braid.
4. Check the electrolyte level in the battery, if this is
decreasing, then your charge rate, i.e system voltage, is too high.
In order to have a quiet electical system the internal resistance of
the battery must be very low, as must the buss and gnd, a battery
that is low on electrolyte has a higher than usual internal
resistance, and is less able to bypass transients in the system, some
times alt whine or noise is indicative of this condition.
5. You may try running the wire to the alt regulator from the alt
switch away from the avionics loom, I find that shielding the alt
output wire to the buss is of little use. Generally the problem is a
high resistance connection some where is the sys.
6. Avoid sharp bends in the transponder coax, as the high
frequencies used, may radiate into the aircraft at a sharp bend, if
the intercom clicks in sync with the interogator light this may be
the problem.
Regards,
Peter O'Brien
Currently building with R.Hill 60084 an RV6, hoping to fly in
August.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rolf Hankers" <ROLF(at)Benjamin.iff.ing.tu-bs.de> |
| Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
Confirmation of reading: your message -
Date: 3 May 98 16:43
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: electrical noise
Was read at 15:13, 4 Jun 98.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Flap Blown Fuse...WHY? |
>
> Thank you for all the replies on the list regarding my flap fuse problem.
>Yesterday when I flew I checked the amperage draw on the flap circuit. On
>the ground, no load, the system drew a constant one amp, up and down. In the
>air at 100 mph, it increased to almost 5 amps at full flaps. Bob Nuckolls
>suggested using a 7 amp fuse and I will try that for now.
I presume your flap circuit is wired with at least 20AWG wire or
heavier . . . the fuse is to protect the wire . . . fuse sizes can
and should be upsized to eliminate nuisance tripping but the wire
has to go up in capacity along with the fuse.
> The RV bunch are a great group of guys, Terry Jantzi flew hi RV6 in
>last night to give me a 5 amp circuit breaker, no charge! I will wait for a
>while to install it as I am still interested in solving this fuse problem. I
>am using the automotive blade type fuses and according to my supplier there
>is no slow blow version of this type of fuse?
If a 7A fuse and 20AWG fixes it, why would you want a slo-blo fuse?
There are no slow versions of the ATO/ATC series fuses used in
our power distribution panels and most automobiles.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lucchinetti, Marco" <MarcoL(at)crt.com> |
| Subject: | N58RV THis is all anyone knows |
Until the testing is finished this is all anyone knows! The
check for the tail kit is still going out on Monday , but the wing kit
will wait until there is a resolution
NTSB Identification: LAX98FA171
Accident occurred MAY-24-98
at RIPLEY, CA
Aircraft: Van's Aircraft, Inc.
RV-8, registration: N58RV
Injuries: 2
Fatal.
On May 24, 1998, at 0630 hours Pacific daylight time, an experimental
RV-8, N58RV, experienced an in-flight structural separation and crashed
1 mile south of Ripley,
California. The aircraft was destroyed and the pilot and pilot-rated
passenger sustained fatal injuries. The aircraft was being operated by
Van's Aircraft, Inc., as a
business flight when the accident occurred. The flight originated from a
private agricultural strip in Blythe, California, at 0620. Visual flight
conditions prevailed at the
time and no flight plan had been filed. A relative of the passenger
reported that on departure the pilot was seated in the front seat, while
the passenger was in the back.
The aircraft is equipped with dual controls, however, the throttle can
only be operated from the front seat. An eyewitness, about 1.5 miles
northwest of the crash site,
reported that he heard the sound of an engine surging and looked to see
where the sound was originating. He saw a yellow aircraft flying
straight and level, about 1,000
feet agl. The aircraft was on a southbound heading, about 1 mile east of
his location. He estimated that he watched the flight for over a minute
when he saw something
fall from the aircraft. This was followed almost immediately by a loud
boom that he described as sounding like a "shotgun." The aircraft's nose
suddenly pitched up about
45 degrees, then abruptly nosed over as it began to roll. The aircraft
entered a nose-down spin and continued in a vertical descent until
impact. A postaccident inspection
of the aircraft by the Safety Board found an outboard section of the
left wing about 0.2 miles northeast of the main wreckage. The main spar
of the left wing was
fractured at a point inboard of the aileron and outboard of the flap.
The main spar of the right wing was also fractured about the same
location, but remained attached by
the wing's outer skin. According to the kit designer, the wing design
had previously been statically tested to failure, which had required in
excess of 9 G's.
P.S. I found this at www.ntsb.gov. I gotta say, reading accident
reports is both very educational and VERY sobering.
Marco Lucchinetti
marcol(at)crt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick_Smith(at)tivoli.com |
| Subject: | Re: 180hp Sensenich prop feedback. |
Comrades,
Is anyone flying with a Sensenich metal prop on a 180 hp RV-6 yet?
I am planning on purchasing one and am leaning toward the one with the
higher pitch for better range.
They also offer a metal spinner (not spinner kit) that is ready to "bolt
on". If anyone has this setup a short product review would be greatly
appreciated.
N1150S has a Sterba prop on a Woofter 7-inch diameter extension. This
combination is light, smooth, inexpensive and offers great T.O. and climb
performance but with two big souls on board the baggage is limited to
approximately 45 lbs due to aft cg limits.
The Sterba/extension has 80 hours on it and is for sale available as soon
as the ich arrives.. Make offer, it is a great setup for the flight test
phase since it gets you off and climbing fast, is inexpensive, and wont
ruin your engine if you prang it on the ground.
I read a hard-to-believe statistic that 10% of experimentals have a prop
strike before the test time is over. Not RVs I hope.
Rick.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Countersink cutter for RV-8 wing spar |
On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> RV-Listers,
>
> Will I need the special countersink cutter that Avery's sells for cutting
> clearance in the wing spar for the dimpled tank skins? This cutter is 1/2
> inch diameter, and has a #30 pilot. I already have a 3/8 diameter cutter
> with a #30 pilot.
>
Did all my countersinking with the 3/8" one, no problem.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Fiddling with fuel tank
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator construction methods |
Would any RVer who has built elevators using both constructions methods,
i.e. The old way of shims under the spars and the new way of using the jig
blocks, please contact me off-list at: Bskinr(at)trib.com ?
Thanks,
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
>Getting ready to work on the spars and I noticed a reference on the
>plans to SK-37. What is it and where is it????
Jerry:
If you are building a 6/6A & you are talking about the main spar, I think
your statement came from page 7-4 & the sk is above sk-40 just in front
of the pictures. All the if's are because I got a Barnard kit & didn't go
through that part.
I hope this helps. I was going to visit your project the last time I went
by Edmond but didn't have time. One of this days though.
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
This counts as speculation, and I thought carefully before sending it.
But in light of some other postings, here goes...
The account of the crash as released by those in charge is quite
consistant with other crashes (not RV's) in which the engine/prop
separated from the airframe during flight (loss of a prop blade and the
subsequent EXTREME vibration caused sometimes leads to this). The
violent pitch up due to the balance change would load the spar WELL into
the 2 digit g range.
Obviously this is just a guess, but if this proves true it would
eliminate both John Morgan's flying and Van's airframe design as having
anything to do with it, which despite the extremely unfortunate and sad
event would serve to make us all feel at least a little better. And it
makes sense. John was by all accounts a truly great pilot and Van has a
history of designing sound planes. I really don't think all of you guys
who have money invested in an RV-8 kit need to worry -that is unless you
also worry about asteroids hitting you as you climb out of bed. I guess
I'm saying don't blame anyone yet... I hold Van and his employees in the
highest esteem. I have no reason not to.
The opinions/guesses above are completely my own. I am an authority of
nothing. Time will tell... In the meantime flame away if you desire. I'm
just very sorry the whole thing happened and like everyone, am trying to
make sense of it the best I can.
Scott Spencer -IN
still trying to get my -4 flying again & looking forward to seeing other
RV'ers at Mike Wonder's fly-in at Shawnee this weekend.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 180hp Sensenich prop feedback. |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>
>Comrades,
>Is anyone flying with a Sensenich metal prop on a 180 hp RV-6 yet?
The Sensenich props for O-360's are not being delivered yet. According
to their web-site (www.sensenich.com) and a card they sent out to
customers, they had problems with the forgings from an outside vendor.
According to the web page, replacement forgings were released for
shipment May 22nd and shipping dates will be announced shortly.
I believe I will receive one of the first props shipped, as I ordered
well before availability was announced. I will post to the group when I
receive mine.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Installing Radios
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical Noise |
Most extraneous electrical noise, rather from strobes, or
alternator/generator outputs, etc, can be effectively eliminated with
what is called a "feed-through" capacitor. You can get them at Radio
Shack for about $5. They mount in the firewall, for example, and provide
a direct through connection, but the body of the device effectively
"shorts" noise (and other high frequency junk) to ground. Sprauge used
to make them but I have not seen their feed through capacitors on the
market for some time. You can buy this kind of product in the aviation
catalogs for $25-35, but the Radio shack ones work just as well. They
are rated about 0.1ufd and have a currect carring capacity of more
amperes than most of your generators/alternators can put out. Hope this
helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen, Brent" <BAllen(at)uci.edu> |
| Subject: | FYI: Superior Air Parts introduces its own engine |
Hello,
Looking at the cost of a 6A QB, Engine, and food, teasers like the
following always interest me:
In AOPA's News section ( http://www.aopa.org/members/ ) there was a
posting today that Superior Air Parts has introduced its own engine for
experimental aircraft. Based on the Lycoming 320/360 series engines, the
non-certified XP 360 is a horizontally-opposed, air-cooled design
offering horsepower choices in the 180 to 200 range. Price for the new
engine has not been firmed but, according to Superior, is expected to be
significantly below a comparable Lycoming engine. For more information
contact the engine's exclusive distributor A.E.R.O. Aviation
618/797-6630
Brent
BAllen(at)uci.edu
RV-6A Tail
Irvine, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy and silicone? |
> Is it safe to use silicone caulk near/on plexiglas?
It's safe but you'll have trouble getting paint to stick anywhere near
where you use silicone. I investigated and ended up using Lexel,
available at Ace Hardware stores. Seems to have worked fine although I
haven't flown yet. Others recommend proseal. There are some postings
about both in the archives -- search for "lexel" and also "proseal AND
canopy".
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Pace <wbpace(at)adnc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI: Superior Air Parts introduces its own engine |
u>
>
> Price for the new
>engine has not been firmed but, according to Superior, is expected to be
>significantly below a comparable Lycoming engine.
Yes, but compared to what? If they are comparing it to Lycoming's _list_
price (around $35K isn't it?) then it probably won't be any better than
what Van charges for the certified engine at the near OEM price he pays for
it.
Now if Van can get OEM pricing direct from Superior then we're talking
about something here. However I doubt he will be able to carry engines
from Superior without jeopardizing his relationship with Lycoming. Of
course he might be able to use the competition to get Lycoming to lower
prices further, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
But like the rest of you, I hope for the best. :-)
-----
Bill Pace
San Diego, CA
wbpace(at)adnc.com
RV-6A Skinning left wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Noise |
>Most extraneous electrical noise, rather from strobes, or
>alternator/generator outputs, etc, can be effectively eliminated with
>what is called a "feed-through" capacitor. You can get them at Radio
>Shack for about $5. They mount in the firewall, for example, and provide
>a direct through connection, but the body of the device effectively
>"shorts" noise (and other high frequency junk) to ground. Sprauge used
>to make them but I have not seen their feed through capacitors on the
>market for some time. You can buy this kind of product in the aviation
>catalogs for $25-35, but the Radio shack ones work just as well. They
>are rated about 0.1ufd and have a currect carring capacity of more
>amperes than most of your generators/alternators can put out. Hope this
>helps.
This type of filter is useful only for reducing radio frequency
noises effects on lower frequency radios like ADF and Loran. They
have no effect on audio rate conducted noises on the bus (typical
of alternator whine and some forms of alternator instability).
If the noise you're trying to filter is coming in through the antenna
(i.e. turning the volume control up and down on the victimized
radio affects level of noise) the low capacity feedthru device mounted
right on the alternator may help.
If the noise is not coming in through the antenna, you'll need to
deduce the propogation path or better yet, if this is a NEW noise,
see if components of the offending system can be upgraded to
put the snake back in the sack. Until we understand where the
noise is being generated and why, one can spend a lot of time
"trying" things with little or no probability of success.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs |
Hmmmm, lessee. If a rotary is turning 6000 RPM then that's 6K at the shaft
and 2000K on the rotors. The shaft is only about 1.5 inches in diameter
(compared to about 12 inches for the perimeter of a Lyc crankshaft) Never
mind the reciprocating mass in a Lyc. It's significant, of course, but the
rotary has nothing to compare it to so we won't.
And I have to PSRU that little shaft from a measley 6K down to about 2200 rpm.
And the gears are typically from a Ford truck which gets thrown in reverse,
stopped, restarted and mis-clutched a couple of hundred times a day (not
counting the number of times your son decided to see how much rubber it would
lay down)
You're right, it's a lousy comparison :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
<< I"ve also used a
regular spray gun. I swear by the hvlp!! You never run out of air. It
is
extremely
portable. IT uses much less paint and gives a professional job with
little
experience. As for resale value, I was going to sell it after I painted
my
first a/c.
It has now painted 2 aircraft and I wouldn"t think of selling it!!!! >>
-------
Is that a turbine type? and what model? I probably don't want to know this
but was it one of the relatively cheap setups from Home Depot? If it works
that nice please fill us in......yeah, all of us...even those of us you are
gonna really annoy by telling us what a good deal you got AFTER we bought
something expensive.
Thanks a lot pal :-)
:-) Bob :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | aileron torque tube hole RV-8 |
A better description: The rear spar of the RV-8 has a hole in it for the
aileron to bellcrank tube. It is a cut and fit operaton with the hole
progressing towards the tp of the rear spar and getting very close to the
flange. There are no dimensons or notes in the Vans info or drawings as to the
minimum distance required on the web portion. The quickbuild comes with a
hole already cut, but it is not high enough to allow the tube to pass thru. Is
a half inch of web area enough ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marty Sailer <mwsailer(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI: Superior Air Parts introduces its own engine |
Allen, Brent wrote:
>
> In AOPA's News section ( http://www.aopa.org/members/ ) there was a
> posting today that Superior Air Parts has introduced its own engine for experimental
aircraft. Based on the Lycoming 320/360 series engines,
After talking with Superior at S 'n F I called the engineer in charge
of the project in Dallas, Tx. This engine will use dynafocal 1 mount.
In Fl. they told me they were first going to build up a 200 hp engine to
test but could give no specifics. It will be a parallel valve, 200 hp
with 10-1 pistons and no fuel injection. He expected it to be on the
market in 3 to 5 months.
For planning only.
Marty RV-6AQ
Erwinna, Pa.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop question |
| From: | jepilot(at)Juno.com (J E REHLER) |
Ken-- my RV6A has a firewall forward engine and CS prop from a 1957
Mooney M20. The engine is an 0-320 and the CS prop is Hartzell. It
works very well .. A small bump was required on the cowling to assure
adequate clearance for the alternator. However be careful to check the
CS prop which probably is subject to the recent AD by Hartzell. My old
prop did not pass ( and the 40 year hub design is also quite dated
compared to the new models) so I recently replaced it with a new Hartzell
CS purchased thru Van's using the one-time discount price. J. E.
Rehler RV6A flying, Corpus Christi, Texas, W5KNZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FYI: Superior Air Parts introduces its own engine |
<< However I doubt he will be able to carry engines
from Superior without jeopardizing his relationship with Lycoming. >>
Would someone refresh me on this? What type of engine is Superior building,
and are they flying yet?
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | N58RV Information |
Don't know if this is news to y'all, but it's the first time I saw it:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/LAX/98A171.htm
Larry
larry(at)bowen.com
RV-8 emp
Advance, NC
size=3D3>Don't know if this is news to y'all, but it's the first time I
saw
size=3D3>RV-8
color=3D#000000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Wagner HVLP |
BOB,
THE WAGNER CAPSPRAY IS A TURBINE. AND I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS CHEAP. BELIEVE
I GAVE AROUND $550 FOR IT TWO YEARS AGO. DON'T
RECALL THE MODEL THOUGH. IT HAS A REAL NICE 5 ADJ GUN. I COULD PUT
ONE COAT OF WHITE ON MY rv4 FUSE WITH 1AND1/2 QTS.
RV4 273SB CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pmartin Compaq" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
Dear Tommy,
I have been using Tite Seal for over 25 years and I still haven't found
anything better as a sealant on airplane engines and fuel tank fittings
etc. I usually use the lite, however I have also used the medium with
equal success. The medium is better is better on old loose threads etc.
On new stuff, I think the lite is better. I used Tite Seal lite on all of
the tank fittings on my RV8.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
80124 installing innards, airframe essentially complete
----------
> From: TOMMY E. WALKER <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: TITE SEAL
> Date: Monday, June 01, 1998 8:36 PM
>
>
> Has anyone had anyone had experience using "Tite Seal" compound on the
fuel
> tank inspection plates and the sender mount plate? How well does it work?
>
> Tommy
> Finishing 6-A Wings
> Ridgetop, Tennessee
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Listers,
Yesterday, I sent a note to the RV-list to hopefully get some
feedback concerning my canopy installation. I was stopped cold
because I didn't have the slightest idea if I was about where I
needed to be. I got two responses. One helped a little. The other
wished me luck. Both were appreciated; but, the lack of response
from those of you who have travelled this road before me was very
disappointing.
I guess the RV-8 crash discussion has tied up your minds so much
that you've forgotten that there are some of us out here who are
trying to get where you are. In the end, I called Van's and got the
warm fuzzies I needed. Therefor, here a slightly edited list of the
items again with some more info in hopes that maybe some of you
behind me can use it.
>>1. Total length is 65.5". It's resting with the front about 1" behind
the front edge of the canopy frame skin and about 1" inside the F674
skin at the rear. I've read that 1" is OK at the front. I've allowed a bit
more skin at the rear so that I could have a nice fit where it meets the
sides. Also some warm fuzzy room, if needed. I had more before I
cut some skin to make the canopy fit better.<<
Per my conversation with Tom Green at Van's, that's just right. The
closer to the front edge of the canopy skin I can make it up front,
the better the transition to the canopy. That makes for a nice slope
back in appearance. The 1" allows a bit for the glass work.
>>2. There is a gap of about .25" at the center of the canopy on the
cabin frame (roll bar). It seems easy enough to push down and
appears to be just the way the canopy is formed. It's round where
the frame is flat. The sides are fitting right in when pushed in. It fits
nicely around the curved parts, too. <<
No problem there, either. Tom says it can have as much as a half
inch in the center and still be just fine. When the cut is made over
the cabin frame, the parts will fall into place very nicely.
>>3. Because cutting at the front was not making any difference at
the back, we tried wedging the center of the rear edge of the canopy
up against the skin. It looked great and didn't seem to make any
difference at the cabin frame (roll bar). We weren't sure it was OK to
do that; but, it sure made better sense than cutting when not
needed. <<
Tom said we did the right thing. By wedging it up, we found that it
made no difference at the roll bar and prevented our making cuts we
didn't need up front. I guess I could trim off a little more up front; but,
I don't think I will unless I see that the cuts to make the transition
curves to the sides are going to make it necessary. I should need
very tiny cuts, at most.
>>4. Sides were pushed in to be sure front fit was OK. Still need to
trim around the front corners to blend into the side rails. Other than
that, it seems to be lying flat enough with the sides pushed in.<<
I give credit to Will Cretsinger's notes for that hint. It sure made a
difference up front. With the sides loose, the front edge laid flat.
When we pressed in on the sides, the center of the front edge would
bulge up. We cut accordingly. Now, the front edge lies flat when
the sides are pushed in. Remember, the canopy sides with be held
in when you put it on. You don't want the front center sticking way
up. Not good!
>>5. Based upon the fit above, a line was drawn on each side's
bottom for the final fit cuts. That line sort of runs uphill toward the
rear. The difference is about .5" from front to rear. <<
This may change a little when I do some final trimming; but, that's just
how it may turn out when it's done. I'll hold off a bit before I start this
cut; but, I think it will still be very close on mine. Your canopy may
not fit this way at all. Mine is a bit high up front because I cut very
little off the front of the canopy. I did cut a little off the rear. I'm not
sure if that's correct; but, it worked for me. Gee, I may have a lot of
head room for my taller passengers, now.
>>What about the angle between the canopy (front to rear) and the
cabin frame? We noticed there is quite a gap at the front edge of
the cabin frame when we pressed down the canopy to the canopy
frame. The frame angle is right on, too. Is this normal? We couldn't
see any way to get the angle much better without dropping the cabin
frame back at the top and doing a lot of cutting up front. Neither
idea seemed good.<<
This must be normal.
>>What do you do about the gap above when you rivet the rear
window to the cabin frame? I realize the rivet line is further back on
the cabin frame; but, I have about a 1/16" gap at the front edge of
the rear window if I leave it that way. I read where someone cut his
a bit further back on the cabin frame. <<
If I cut my canopy at the 3/8" mark behind the front face of the roll
bar, I will have a gap under the leading edge of the rear window due
to the curvature of the canopy vs the angle of the roll bar. However,
I can cut it further back on the roll bar and eliminate a lot of the gap.
In fact, Tom suggested that I cut it further back so I can use the
small channel that's formed between the front and back of the roll bar
as a drip channel for when it rains. That's what I'll probably do and
eliminate that gap caused by the canopy curvature angle. I have to
rivet it on the rear part of the roll bar, anyway.
>>How much space is there between the front canopy and the rear
window along the cut line? This might help some of the above in my
thinking process. I haven't seen any comments about how far to
space the two sections from each other. I know a strip of glass is
placed over the top to form a seal, sort of. <<
The glass strip appears to be optional to cover up any bad stuff or
keep out water. On the other hand, it may not be needed if there is a
good seal and the cut is near perfect. The space is about 1/8".
That's about the width of the cutting wheel. Make that cut nice and
neat. :-)
Be aware that I didn't even think about working on the canopy's plexi
until the temps were about 80 degrees. Yeah, I did do some of it in
the upper seventies after I got started ; but, most of it has been done
above 80 degrees. Today, because it was very cool, I left it alone.
I'm also sanding after each cut. I'm using a sanding disk on my air
drill and running it at a slower speed. I then go down the edges with
a sanding block to make a slight bevel to get rid of sharp edges. It's
working, so far. Also, cover up any sharp edges in skins and such
so that you don't get scratches on the canopy.
I hope this helps some of you.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Struggling with the canopy)
AA-5A N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FYI: Superior Air Parts introduces its own engine |
><< However I doubt he will be able to carry engines from Superior without
>jeopardizing his relationship with Lycoming. >>
>Would someone refresh me on this? What type of engine is Superior building,
>and are they flying yet?
>Jim Nice
They are "reverse engineering" a Lycoming O-360 (and later an O-320) with
cases they have developed in house. Right now they are talking
experimental only, but they had the rough cases at SNF and said that they
plan on PMA'd cases eventually.
When you consider that nearly every part for the Lycoming O-320/O-360
series is available aftermarket right now except the case and the data
plate, it doesn't take much to get to a complete "Lycoming" engine that has
never been to Williamsport!
A little competition is what we've been needing in the engine market for 20
years. Lycoming is going to have to wake up and deal with this issue.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleaning of Instrument Glass |
>
> >Listers; I have a couple of instruments, a VSI and a Turn and Bank, that
> >have a sort of cloudy look to them. Upon close examination I see that
> >this cloudiness is actually a film on the inside of the glass. Can these
> >instruments be disassembled and the glass cleaned and reassembled by us?
> If your aircraft is IFR certified then you *MUST* have the instrument
> tested and re-certified by an instrument shop. If it is VFR then you are
> probably "home free" with the FEDs since you are "experimenting". The
> static system also runs the encoder for the Mode C, and if you booger up
> the seal on the VSI you may get odd readings from the altitude readout.
>
> Bob Steward, A&P IA
> AA-1B N8978L
> AA-5A N1976L
Bob,
Can you point out which FAR paragraph levies this requirement on Part 91
IFR ops? I don't recall reading this requirement (but I've been building rather
than flying for a couple of years, so my memory is stale).
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
FAB complete, baffling complete, now gotta mount exhaust hangers so I can
finish the lower cowling cutout so I can fiberglass on the air scoop.
Everything's related to everything else...
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Indiana RV Fly in |
Once again, Mike Wonder is holding his pot-luck lunch and RV fly-in
schmooze session, at the Shawnee airport, 30 mi SW of Bloomington,
Indiana (1I3). The festivities will begin around noon Saturday. There
will be an estimated 5-10 RV's coming, as well as many builders like
myself who kick themselves for not having their airplanes done to be
able to fly in with. It is a good opportunity to have your cake and eat
it too; stuff your face and talk RV's with people who like to do the
same. Low pass mandatory.
Thanks,
Bob Japundza
Network Consultant, MCSE
ImageMax, Inc.
Carmel, IN
bjapundza@iis-intellect.com
RV-6, just mounted O-360
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rod Smith <rsmith(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Projects in the Denver Area |
I will be in the Denver area from Jun 9th to Jun 23rd and would be
interested in seeing projects or flying planes while there. I am planning
on an RV-8 but am interested in all RVs. Please reply privately, not on the
list.
Thanks
Rod Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: RV seats] |
Wally,
Tell me what color you want, and type (fiberglass, kevlar), and
when I find out for sure what the others want , I'll get back
with you before I order to confirm you still want it. Thanks.
Michael. (Hopefully by Friday or Saturday.)
hole being 5" wide and 5.5" long, it is roughly 4.75" x 5.25".
The worst implication of this is that the lense would be a little
difficult to get in and out of the hole. Appearance will be all but
indistinguishable.
What to do if you have bought one of our kits in the last 5 months:
1 - Measure the width of the opening on the Wing Cut-out Template.
a - If it is 5", you're set.
b - If it is 4.75", go to 2.
2 - If your template is undersize, you can:
a - Adjust it to fix the discrepancies, or,
b - Email Duckworks and request a new template.
3 - If '2' and you've already cut the hole:
a - Try to fit the lense in, if it is a little tight, take a
little off of the lower edge of the lense.
b - If you just can't get it to fit widen the hole slightly
(this should not be necessary)
If you do request a new template, be sure to include your mailing
address. Since most kits are sold thru Van's I do not have a record of
who got them.
Sorry for the inconvenience,
Don Wentz, Duckworks Exp Aircraft Parts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: Rotary engines in RVs - powersport |
The rotary design was always attractive to me because it's so much
simpler (no valve stems or rocker arms, no connecting rods, no cam, etc..,
In principal it should be possible to make a rotary more reliable than a
piston engine. Don't know if the Mazda 13b actually is very reliable, of
course. It might be. In any case, I was real interested in the Powersport
Rotary. It seemed that they'd worked it out well and were going to offer a
ready to mount package. Then Everet Hatch died. Does anybody know what
happened to Powersport? Are they still going to sell engines?
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Quesion, |
I had the local DAR in yesterday to look at the wings of my RV6 prior to
closing, he found one item that I was going to re-do. Where the Piano Hinge
for the flap meets the flap brace & the skin, I dont have enough edge distance
on the skin.
Has anyone else runinto this - Is the larger Piano Hinge Van's offers the
correct
fix?
Other than that I have a green light to close both wings - The DAR spent
aboiut 1 1/2 hours going over the Wings & was impressed with the quality of
Van's Kit.
BSivori(at)AOL.COM
Getting ready to close Wings
N929RV ( Reseved )
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sealed nut plates and screws |
Where can I get the sealed nut plates (NAS1473 ?) that are used for fuel
tanks. No luck in the ACS catalog.
Also, I found some 8-32 stainless steel screws with integral rubber seals
rated for 500 psi. They can be purchased from McMaster Carr. About 43
dollars per hundred. I would consider them if they had a groove under the
head. Have any of you seen such screws as these?
Mark McGee
RV4 Fuel Tanks (and overhauling my Colt's O235 in the same garage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karl Ahamer" <ascot(at)hinet.net.au> |
| Subject: | RVs and HAM RADIO |
I think I have seen a few HAM radio callsigns appearing on the list.Any
HAMS out there interested in using this medium to get in
touch with other builders and discuss matters and exchange experiences?
Or is there already a net setup???
PLease let me know.
Regards Karl Ahamer VK2GKA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Quesion, |
<< Where the Piano Hinge
for the flap meets the flap brace & the skin, I dont have enough edge
distance
on the skin.
Has anyone else run into this - Is the larger Piano Hinge Van's offers the
correct
fix? >>
Now, do you lack ED on the skin, or the hinge? I have used P4 or P5 as
required on the wing to get the TE of the flap to line up with the TE of the
ail, with good results. If you're too close (ED) on the skin, I'm afraid I
can't thelp much there...
Please report your results!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
| Subject: | Oshkosh area RV Builders. |
I'm wondering if there are any RV list members or readers from the
Oshkosh/Fond du Lac area? Looking for a hanger to store my airplane on
occasion. If so could you contact me off line. At pluker(at)ibm.net
or luker.michael(at)mayo.edu Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
Listers,
One of Larry Vetterman's suggested methods for supporting the aft (behind
the ball joint) portion of his exhaust pipes is to use a rubber isolated strap
going from the exhaust pipe up to a bolt on the oil pan of the engine. If I do
that the existing Lycoming bolt (STD 1414, 1/4-20 x 1 1/8) needs to be
replaced with something just a bit longer. I can either try to find a longer
Lycoming bolt (STD 1204, 1/4-20 x 1 5/16 should work) or use a standard
AN4 bolt (much easier to find). When I called them Lycoming couldn't
recommend the AN4 bolt because they don't have insight into the relative
strength of AN4 bolts and the Lycoming bolts. I got the feeling they didn't
really see a problem, but they were unwilling to endorse any change to an
engine with a data plate without the proper paperwork.
Any insight into the impacts of replacing the coarse pitch lycoming bolt with a
fine pitch AN4 bolt?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
Sweating the details
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Bocox" <rbocox(at)ryko.com> |
| Subject: | Buick V-8 installation, WARP Drive Props and System 3 Paint |
I am currently finishing up the installlation of a Buick 215 CID V-8 in an RV-6A.
Are there any others out there doing the same? I would like to discuss details
with anyone who is interested. Using a Belted Air Power Drive. The engine
runs great!!
I fit a 3-bladed WARP Drive prop to the aircraft. I had to mill a special adapter
plate to fit the spinner frontplate to the prop. I have drawings if anyone
is interested. I am also using System 3 paints. I think the paint is wonderful,
is quite inexpensive, but it has a few quirks. If anyone is interested
in discussing this paint, contact me here or directly.
Roger E. Bocox
In Des Moines, IA
RV-6A N872RF
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap Quesion, |
Mark,
My problem is the ED on the skin, however I went to the hangar at 6AM this
morning because it was driving me nuts, I noticed that the measurements for
the hinge on to the flap were not correct, the plan calls for 1/8 inch from
the center of the hinge to the skin, I,m a bit heavy.
I also measured the hinge full open its 1 1/4 which is a P3 - the P4 is 1/1/2
and the P5 is a full 2 inches. Since I only did this to the right wing, I'll
try the left wing over the weekend and see what happens,
Any suggestions would be helpfull.
Thanks
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Listers,
>
>Yesterday, I sent a note to the RV-list to hopefully get some
>feedback concerning my canopy installation. I was stopped cold
>because I didn't have the slightest idea if I was about where I
>needed to be. I got two responses. One helped a little. The other
>wished me luck. Both were appreciated; but, the lack of response
>from those of you who have travelled this road before me was very
>disappointing.
>
Jim,
Please remember we are also building airplanes and it is time consuming.
I considered responding to your post but did not for two reasons.
--I could not determine for sure if you have a tip-up or slider. The
procedures are very different for the two designs and I'm not sure
someone who has done one style can have much of intelligence to say about
the other. If it said anywhere in your post what you are building I
could not find it.
--You asked many questions in one post. Personally I just am not willing
to spend the time necessary to answer so many questions at once.
I know the feelings about canopy fitting. I built a tip-up (as I believe
you are) and had the similar experience of cutting and cutting at the
front but the back never came up near the skin. Finally, when I was
about to run out of canopy at the front I just made the lateral cut and
then cut a thin wedge to make things line up at the roll-bar. Many times
I thought the whole mess was hopeless but in the end it turned out
reasonably well.
With all my problems I felt grateful for the bits of advice I got from
the list and I got some good ones through direct e-mail. I never felt
like anyone on the list owed me anything, and I think having to figure
some of it out myself contributed to the education and recreation stuff
we are supposed to be doing.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Installing Radios
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
Look in the engine parts book. the sump bolts are different lengths. Seeif
you
can find one that will work even if you have to use a few washers. The an4
bolt
will only work if it is a thru bolt as it has fine thread. The tapped holes
are course.
Stew RV4273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N58RV THis is all anyone knows |
>
> Until the testing is finished this is all anyone knows! The
>check for the tail kit is still going out on Monday , but the wing kit
>will wait until there is a resolution
>
We all want to "know" what happened. I have some bad news. It is perfectly
reasonable and likely that we may never "know" what happened. Those of you
who have been on this list for a long while remember when my friend Kosta
Asselanis perished in his -4 in Minnesota. We still don't "know" what
happened. I am fairly sure that even Kosta never knew what was wrong. I
just finished my condition inspection the pink panther. While I was
twisting screws and lubeing linkages, I spent allot of time thinking about
Kosta and wondering what happened.
Neither the FAA or the NTSB "know" why TWA 800 blew up either. For those
of you who like to live with absolute certainty, this aviation business is a
bad one. One thing that I "know" absolutely is that as long as we fly
airplanes we will crash them. We should continue to strive for no crashes,
but it will never happen.
As for the discussion of this tragedy on this list, I think the way we
resolve these issues in our minds is by talking about them rationally with
like minded individuals whom we respect and trust. Discussing the passing
of a friend in an
experimental airplane with my attorney friends is not going to get me any
closer to understanding what happened or dealing with the uncertainty of
this business. We should be able to find more like minded friends here than
anywhere and I think a rational and polite discussion here is healthy.
Having said that, all need to be extremely careful in how we choose our
words in these discussions, and understanding that sometimes things don't
read the
way we meant them. When this is all done we will all fly our
RV-4, RV-8, Bonanza, or 747, with the knowledge that sometimes they crash
for
reasons we will never understand.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed nut plates and screws |
Mark:
Try Genuine Aircraft Hardware in Paso Robles, CA at 805-239-3169. They will
have everything that you need (including NAS 1473 sealed nutplates) at
reasonable prices with excellent service. Nice people too.
Hope this helps,
Jon Ross RV-80094
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
I can't see any problem with using an AN bolt, but I'm not a structural
engineer either. I wrestled with that same issue then decided to go a
different direction. I found some small rubber hangars at an exhaust place
that look like oval "doughnuts" that are about 3"x2" with a hole in each
end. One end bolts to the nosegear support with an Adel clamp, the other
end to the pipe with a hose clamp. Then there is a piece of small steel
tube attaching both pipes to each other.
Works very well, and puts a little movement in the slip joints to keep them
free.
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@bigskytel.com - http://www.bigskytel.com/~ebundy/
> that the existing Lycoming bolt (STD 1414, 1/4-20 x 1 1/8) needs to be
> replaced with something just a bit longer. I can either try to find a
longer
> Lycoming bolt (STD 1204, 1/4-20 x 1 5/16 should work) or use a standard
> AN4 bolt (much easier to find). When I called them Lycoming couldn't
> recommend the AN4 bolt because they don't have insight into the relative
> strength of AN4 bolts and the Lycoming bolts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
<< Any insight into the impacts of replacing the coarse pitch lycoming bolt
with a
fine pitch AN4 bolt? >>
On advice of the A&P who did my overhaul, I replaced the Lycoming bolt with a
longer Grade 5 hardware store bolt of the same pitch, to keep the same thread
engagement up in the engine case.
All I can say is I still have my data plate (that's a long story in itself)
and after a whopping 3.5 hours it hasn't fallen out of the sky.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A Virginia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust suppor |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>Listers,
>
>One of Larry Vetterman's suggested methods for supporting the aft (behind
>the ball joint) portion of his exhaust pipes is to use a rubber isolated
>strap
>going from the exhaust pipe up to a bolt on the oil pan of the engine.
Tim,
This is interesting to me. I got my Vetterman system about a month ago
and that method of attachment is not mentioned. I got a rather vague
sheet showing the supports being attached to the engine mount. The
actual recommended geometry is not clear from the sheet.
I am not crazy about attaching to the engine mount because of the
relative movement between it and the engine even though there is a little
isolation through the use of rubber hose in the middle of the attach
tubes.
I wonder if anyone has had good or bad experiences with these two
different attach methods and I wonder why your method isn't mentioned in
my documentation?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6QME N441LP Reserved
Installing Radios
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com> |
| Subject: | Looking to see RV6A/6 in Dallas area |
Folks,
In my research to find a suitable plane to build - I'd like to see
an RV6A/6 in the Dallas area. I'm looking at things like XC comfort,
storage area, layout, and maybe a $30k free ride.
The Dallas area includes about 1.5 in a C-152 - so I can fly in to
visit if necessary.
Please respond directly - I don't think we need to choke up bandwidth
on the server for this.
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed nut plates and screws |
<< Where can I get the sealed nut plates (NAS1473 ?) that are used for fuel
tanks.>>
Try Olander.
<< Also, I found some 8-32 stainless steel screws with integral rubber seals
rated for 500 psi. They can be purchased from McMaster Carr. About 43
dollars per hundred. I would consider them if they had a groove under the
head. Have any of you seen such screws as these? >>
Try Olander again. These are made for APM Hexseal.
Both are listed in the Yeller Pages.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
<< One of Larry Vetterman's suggested methods for supporting the aft (behind
the ball joint) portion of his exhaust pipes is to use a rubber isolated
strap
going from the exhaust pipe up to a bolt on the oil pan of the engine. If I
do
that the existing Lycoming bolt (STD 1414, 1/4-20 x 1 1/8) needs to be
replaced with something just a bit longer. >>
Tim-
These are coarse thread bolts because they're going into tapped aluminum sans
helicoils. Fine threads would need helicoils for strength in the soft AL.
IMO just use the existing bolts if your strap is 1/8" thk. If you're sure
that you want to change the length, get some Grade 8 coarse bolts from the
hardware store.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Weichert, Wolfgang" <Wolfgang.Weichert(at)nrc.ca> |
| Subject: | Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
I think this has nothing to do with the strength of the bolt. If you
tighten a course thread to a specific torque, and you do the same with a
fine thread bolt (same torque) you have different clamping pressure
between head and nut. So what you want to know is how much clamping
pressure the specified torque for the coarse thread would exert, and
then find the torque for the fine thread causing the same clamping
pressure. Use that torque for the finer thread. I don't know if there is
much difference in the real world. I believe torque figures are stated
to ensure minimum clamping pressure without stripping the thread.
======================================
* Wolfgang Weichert System Support Unit
* Phone (613) 993-9589 Fax (613) 941-0175
* e-mail wolfgang.weichert(at)nrc.ca
======================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Lewis [SMTP:timrv6a(at)earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, June 05, 1998 9:32 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust
support
Listers,
One of Larry Vetterman's suggested methods for supporting the
aft (behind
the ball joint) portion of his exhaust pipes is to use a rubber
isolated strap
going from the exhaust pipe up to a bolt on the oil pan of the
engine. If I do
that the existing Lycoming bolt (STD 1414, 1/4-20 x 1 1/8) needs
to be
replaced with something just a bit longer. I can either try to
find a longer
Lycoming bolt (STD 1204, 1/4-20 x 1 5/16 should work) or use a
standard
AN4 bolt (much easier to find). When I called them Lycoming
couldn't
recommend the AN4 bolt because they don't have insight into the
relative
strength of AN4 bolts and the Lycoming bolts. I got the feeling
they didn't
really see a problem, but they were unwilling to endorse any
change to an
engine with a data plate without the proper paperwork.
Any insight into the impacts of replacing the coarse pitch
lycoming bolt with a
fine pitch AN4 bolt?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
Sweating the details
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
>One of Larry Vetterman's suggested methods for supporting the aft (behind
>the ball joint) portion of his exhaust pipes is to use a rubber isolated strap
>going from the exhaust pipe up to a bolt on the oil pan of the engine.
>Tim Lewis
Tim,
Another method of support would be to attach some rubber belting to a
plate that attaches at the carb that you attach your throttle & mixture
cable to. I did this on my 150 hp RV-6 and it has worked well for 400+
hours. I didn't use Van's plate because I used a different throttle cable
(highly recommended---simple push pull with friction lock as opposed to the
vernier, especially the vernier supplied by Van's).
I bent a flange down on the aft end of the "carb plate", drilled some
holes in it and bolted on some rubber belting. To the bottom of the
belting, I attached the pipe hangers. My carb plate does have a support of
4130 tubing that is attached at one end to a bolt on the prop governor pad.
I can't say if this additional support is necessary but it seemed like a
good idea at the time. Between the tube support and where it attaches to
the top of the "carb plate" is where I attached my ground strap. I cleaned
the steel so there would be good contact and then coated the connection with
"Liquid Electrical tape". Again, no problem in 3 years and 400+ hours.
A side note: I started out with the Vetterman mild steel, 4 pipe and
switched over to the S.S. cross-over. I initially used stainless steel hose
clamps to clamp the pipes to the support. I had a heck of a time keeping
clamps on the plane. They broke on a regular basis. I'm now using regular
muffler clamps. I know, they're heavey and ugly but they haven't let me
down, yet. If anyone elects to stay with the S.S. hose clamps, I'd
recommend carrying a few spares in the plane and checking security on the
pipes before every flight.
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fletcher Keith <keith.fletcher(at)pwc.ca> |
| Subject: | Phoenix, Arizona |
I'm looking for some contacts and info of Phoenix, Arizona area RV'ers
for hanger space or sharing if possible. I understand the Arizona area
is quite RV active.
Please respond outside the list for discussion at fletke(at)pwc.com
K. Fletcher
RV-4, C-FMYO
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Buick V-8 installation, WARP Drive Props and System 3 Paint |
Exciting, keep us posted on your flight test results.
Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, about to order Lycosarus, SE Fla.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
> Any insight into the impacts of replacing the coarse pitch lycoming bolt with
a
> fine pitch AN4 bolt?
Tim,
As was previously mentioned by Gary V. stick with the coarse thread.
Standard engineering practice is to alway use coarse thread in
aluminium. The depth of fine (AN hardware) threads is not as deep as
coarse thread. Due to the reduced (compared to steel) strength of
aluminium, coarse threads are needed to prevent the aluminium threads
from stripping out. It is the aluminium case castings that require that
coarse bolts be used here.
Rule of thumb.... Coarse threaded fasteners are stronger. Fine thread
fasteners resist loosening from vibration better.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8 prepping wing ribs
Boca Raton, Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Bocox" <rbocox(at)ryko.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical wiring seminar at OSHKOSH |
I will be putting on a seminar at OSHKOSH on Friday July 31, in tent #4 at 8:30
AM. This seminar is for anyone who needs basic information on wiring you homebuilt
aircraft. Things covered will be simple schematics, wire numbering, wiring
diagrams, wires, connectors, wiring methods, determining wire gauges needed,
why the AC-43 wants you to do things in a certain way, etc. This is not going
to be a detailed indepth discussion aimed at electrical engineers and PHDs.
It is basics for electrical dummies. (not really). If you or anyone you know
would benefit from such a program, have them stop by.
Roger E. Bocox,EE
RV-6A N872RF
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
<<
I think this has nothing to do with the strength of the bolt. If you
tighten a course thread to a specific torque, and you do the same with a
fine thread bolt (same torque) you have different clamping pressure
between head and nut. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Buick V-8 installation, WARP Drive Props and System 3 Paint |
Roger Bocox wrote:
>
> I am currently finishing up the installlation of a Buick 215 CID V-8 in an >
RV-6A. Are there any others out there doing the same? I would like to discuss
> details with anyone who is interested. Using a Belted Air Power Drive. The
> engine runs great!!
> I fit a 3-bladed WARP Drive prop to the aircraft. I had to mill a special >
adapter plate to fit the spinner frontplate to the prop. I have drawings if >
anyone is interested. I am also using System 3 paints. I think the paint is
> wonderful, is quite inexpensive, but it has a few quirks.
Hi Roger, keep us posted.
Couple of questions, where are you planning to mount the rad and what
rad are you planning to use? I'm leaning toward a P-51 style belly
scoop.
tailwinds, terry
Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A
38 Cartier St.
Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca
Ontario Canada
P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Bocox" <rbocox(at)ryko.com> |
| Subject: | System Three Paint system |
I have had quite a few requests to post my experiences with the paint. Here goes.
1. Primer.
I am using the yellow-green anti-corrosion primer. This stuff is very full of
solids, and it must be mixed with an electric mixer each time it is used. It
must be thinned to about 10% to get it to spray properly. If the surface metal
is prepared well, the primer sticks like iron and is as hard as concrete. I
think it will be on there forever. You cannot hardly scratch it off without
gouging the metal underneath. It must be applied pretty wet to get it to smooth
out. If dry at all, it will make the surface like sandpaper. It fills well,
and would probably hide all rivets in a couple of coats. IT sands well. Sand
dry with 220 to 320 grit first, and then touch up by wet sanding with 400
before finish coats. I like the primer, although I don't know how you would ever
get it off if you had to.
2. Paint system
The system is a linear polyurethane which thins with distilled water. The best
part is that you don't have to spend tons of money on thinner. The system is
a base coat-clearcoat system. I am doing a somewhat complicated paint scheme
and so I am only putting one coat of paint on in each area. I am not painting
the entire plane white first. Inm this way, I can get the paint surface levels
more even and have a smooth top coat when I put the clear over it.
2A. Base coats. The paint is mixed up with a crosslinker first. You put in 8
drops per fluid ounce of paint. Note: you must let this sit for 20 minutes before
using the paint. The trick with the base and top coats is to thin the paint
very little. I have found that about 5% thinning is all that is needed.
Apply a somewhat dry coat first, then recoat with a medium wet coat every 20-30
minutes until the desired results are obtained. The paint is very vsicous
and heavy, and will run easily on vertical surfaces if put on too heavy. The
only problem I am having with the paint is that it does not allow the 3-M Fine-line
tape to come off very well. The paint will not stick well to the masking
tape, and wants to lift off the tape when you peel it off. You have to either
have to pull the tape off when the paint is still quite wet, or wait until
the paint is just about dry. When it is dry, you need to run and X-Acto knife
along the edge to score the paint. This works quite well, and makes a nice clean
edg
2B Final Clear Coat
Before applying the clear coat, wet sand the paint, smoothing down the paint seam
edges with maybe 400 sandpaper, and then top it off with 600 grit. Be careful
with the 400 as you can cut too deep and have to recoat! Just be sure to
knock the shine off the paint with the 600 grit. I used dry transfer lettering
to put on the "NO STEP" and the fuel filler information. The top coat is
applied just like the base coats. Wipe the entire surface with Isopropyl alcohol
and let dry. Do not use alcohol on the lettering, or it will come off!
Wipe with a tack rag,and go at it. The clear coat can be sanded, if desired, with
600 up to 2000 grit paper, and then use rubbing compound/polishing compound,
before waxing.
Conclusions
So far, I like the system. It is a little different , and it takes a little to
get used to it. The advantage of a base coat/clear coat system is that dings
in the paint will ding, usually, the clear coat,and the plane will still look
good.
Let me know if anyone else has any other experiences/ comments aboutthe paint.
Roger Bocox
RV-6A N872RF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support -Reply |
If I read your message right, I believe that there is a misconception about
the preload (clamp load) on the bolt with different type of threads
(coarse vs. fine thread).
The preload on the bolt is determined by the applied torque, joint
stiffness, bolt diameter and the theads lubrication. There is insignificant
difference on the bolt preload between the coarse and fine thread if the
same torque is applied. However, with the same bolt diameter, the
minimum tensile area on the coarse thread bolt is smaller than the
minimum tensile area on the fine thread. Therefore, in general practice,
fine thread bolt has higher torque limit than the coarse thread bolt.
For example:
Nominal diamete Minium Tensile Area
#10 -24 (UNC) 0.190" 0.0175 In^2
#10-32 (UNF) 0.190" 0.020 In^2
For tension application, the failure mode on the bolt is normally at
the minimum diameter (in the threaded section) or at the fillet radius
under the bolt head.
Hope this helps.
T.Nguyen, P.E
Analysis Engineering Manager
Fuselage in Jig
>>> "Weichert, Wolfgang" 06/05/98
11:02am >>>
I think this has nothing to do with the strength of the bolt. If you
tighten a course thread to a specific torque, and you do the same with a
fine thread bolt (same torque) you have different clamping pressure
between head and nut. So what you want to know is how much
clamping
pressure the specified torque for the coarse thread would exert, and
then find the torque for the fine thread causing the same clamping
pressure. Use that torque for the finer thread. I don't know if there is
much difference in the real world. I believe torque figures are stated
to ensure minimum clamping pressure without stripping the thread.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust suppor |
> >One of Larry Vetterman's suggested methods for supporting the aft (behind
> >the ball joint) portion of his exhaust pipes is to use a rubber isolated
> >strap
> >going from the exhaust pipe up to a bolt on the oil pan of the engine.
> This is interesting to me. I got my Vetterman system about a month ago
> and that method of attachment is not mentioned. I got a rather vague
> sheet showing the supports being attached to the engine mount.
I have the same sheet. The alternative method was on the reverse
side. Did you look on the back side of the sheet? As I recall it
just shows two straps of 4120 (.063 or thinwall tube I think) coming
down from appropriate sump bolts, with rubber heater hose used as
shock straps, and a cross piece between them.
I talked to Larry about the pros and cons of each method. He didn't
seem to have a preference for which way was better. Hanging from the
engine mount is probably easier, and he said that as long as you have
some sort of rubber shock strap it's not a problem. I know several
people who have done it this way. He also said going from the sump
seems to work fine as well but you still need the isolation straps,
and also a crosspiece.
You might want to give Larry a call (he's in the yeller pages). He
was happy to talk to me about it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Sealed nut plates and screws |
> Where can I get the sealed nut plates (NAS1473 ?) that are used for fuel
> tanks. No luck in the ACS catalog.
>
> Also, I found some 8-32 stainless steel screws with integral rubber seals
> rated for 500 psi. They can be purchased from McMaster Carr. About 43
> dollars per hundred. I would consider them if they had a groove under the
> head. Have any of you seen such screws as these?
Mark,
Evidently you are going down the much travelled path of wanting to
make your tank plates removable and not pro-sealed on. Hopefully this
won't start another debate about the pros and cons of that idea -- I
won't get into that, there's plenty of it in the archives already!
But I do think that the self-sealing screws would be a better solution
than the sealed nut-plates. If you think about the way the nutplates
work they are only sealing the hole through the bulkhead, anything
that might seep around the gasket next to the screw could potentiallyt
get out the hole in the coverplate. For this reason I think the
self-sealing screws would be a better solution. I have seen these in
a few catalogs and all the ones I've seen do have a groove on the
underside of the bolt head with an o-ring in it. One place I've seen
these is at Long-Lok Fasteners Corp., at www.longlok.com.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <joe(at)mcione.com> |
To who ever's been there. I plan on running my elect elev trim wire to up
front (no other electrical this area). Should I just drill holes in the
bulk heads. Also bulkhead F604 is it acceptable to drill holes in this
bulkhead for electrical and static tube?????
Thanks for any help.
RV6A joe/fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
Thanks for all the feedback, guys. After I posted my question I spent 4-6
hours making different mock up brackets and examining options for attaching
the supports to the plane. On the -6A I found that the engine mount tubing
running down to the nose wheel attachment makes it quite challenging to run
a strap from the sump to the exhaust while missing the Robbins heat muffs. I
was also concerned that such a configuration might not keep the exhaust
pipes from moving side to side enough to hit the engine mount. I finally
stumbled on to a configuration that seems to work...
For each exhaust pipe (I have the crossover Vetterman system) I fabricated a
support out of 1/16" steel that is (mostly) 1" wide and about 8" long. The
support starts at the 3/8" bolt that holds the nost gear portion of the engine
mount to the firewall. The support has a 3/8" hole in it, and goes between the
engine mount and the nut. The support then goes up and forward, parallel to
the engine mount tube that leads to the nose gear. Then the support is bent
down about 300 degrees so that it points down at the exhaust pipe and aft.
Then I bolted a couple of layers of old car tire sidewall (1" wide, 4" long)
extending down and aft from the support.
________________________________________________________________________________
steel (clamped to the exhaust pipe) that almost reaches the support
described above. The "hook" is also bolted to the tire sidewalls.
(To stabilitze the first support I use an adel clamp attached to the engine
mount. It is bolted to a little tab that protrudes from the side of the support.)
The effect of this system is similar to that shown in one of Mr Vetterman's
options, but I like my modification because it doesn't require a cross over
support joining the two exhaust pipes, and the support I fashioned seems
firm enough to prevent the exhaust pipe from hitting the nose gear portion of
the engine mount, or the cowling.
I'll post a picture to my web site if I ever get access to a scanner.
Thanks for all the ideas, gang!
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-8 N801RV FLIES!!! |
Today is the day I've been waiting on for 22 months. She left the earth for
the first time!!!! The first flight lasted 1.4 hours. I returned to the
ground only to fill 'er up and off I went again. Boy, does that IO-360 drink
fuel. This is the third RV that I have had the honor and fortune of flying on
the initial flight and it doesn't get any less exciting. It's dark now. I
can hardly wait for the sun to come up tomorrow. Keep building guys. There
is a light at the end of the tunnel and boy is it bright.
Regards,
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
SN:80126
3 hours TTSN
________________________________________________________________________________
<< THE WAGNER CAPSPRAY IS A TURBINE. AND I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS CHEAP. BELIEVE
I GAVE AROUND $550 FOR IT TWO YEARS AGO. DON'T
RECALL THE MODEL THOUGH. IT HAS A REAL NICE 5 ADJ GUN. I COULD PUT
ONE COAT OF WHITE ON MY rv4 FUSE WITH 1AND1/2 QTS. >>
I have a little experiance with the Wagner HVLP systems, (worked in their
quality department) They make severial diffrent models, from the basic "Home
Depot" model with a plastic spray gun, up to a high end comertial unit with
electro static charge to increase transfer percentage. I am currently using
the low end unit that I got as a "field test" before I left. It is basicly a
shop vac with a hose on the out put, it works good for primer but I would not
use it for a final coat on my plane. The higher end units have much higher
spray pressure and will give a very good result. Wagner also makes the same
higher end HVLP units in diffrent color for sherwin williams. Shop around for
the best price.
Hope this helps
Alan kritzman
RV-8 waiting for Fus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Hoopingarner <randy(at)tr.reno.nv.us> |
would anyone on the list be able to direct me to a first class uphostery
shop? I would like a professional job.
thanx in advance.
Randy,
RV-6 time to start the finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
> All I can say is I still have my data plate (that's a long story in itself)
> and after a whopping 3.5 hours it hasn't fallen out of the sky.
>
> Bill Boyd
> RV-6A Virginia
>
Speaking of engine data plate there is a good article in Kitplanes
in the letters section this month (July 1998) on this very subject.
It says you do not turn your data plate into anyone just remove and
keep it if you do something to the engine to make it uncertified.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
<< would anyone on the list be able to direct me to a first class uphostery
shop? I would like a professional job.
thanx in advance.
Randy,
RV-6 time to start the finishing kit
>>
Randy,
I would suggest D.J.Lauritsen of Cleveland Aircraft Tool. She did the leather
seats in my RV8 and I have received a lot of compliments on them.
Regards,
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | seaok71302(at)Juno.com (mike a adams) |
The following was copied from Vans Web site. I'm posting it here for
those who do not have net access. No comments or speculation.
6/5/98
NTSB Identification: LAX98FA171
Accident occurred MAY-24-98 at RIPLEY, CA
Aircraft: Van's Aircraft, Inc. RV-8, registration: N58RV
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
On May 24, 1998, at 0630 hours Pacific daylight time, an experimental
RV-8, N58RV, experienced an in-flight structural separation and crashed 1
mile south of Ripley, California. The aircraft was destroyed and the
pilot and pilot-rated passenger sustained fatal injuries. The aircraft
was being operated by Van's Aircraft, Inc., as a business flight when the
accident occurred. The flight originated from a private agricultural
strip in Blythe, California, at 0620. Visual flight conditions prevailed
at the time and no flight plan had been filed. A relative of the
passenger reported that on departure the pilot was seated in the front
seat, while the passenger was in the back. The aircraft is equipped with
dual controls, however, the throttle can only be operated from the front
seat. An eyewitness, about 1.5 miles northwest of the crash site,
reported that he heard the sound of an engine surging and looked to see
where the sound was originating. He saw a yellow aircraft flying straight
and level, about 1,000 feet agl. The aircraft was on a southbound
heading, about 1 mile east of his location. He estimated that he watched
the flight for over a minute when he saw something fall from the
aircraft. This was followed almost immediately by a loud boom that he
described as sounding like a "shotgun." The aircraft's nose suddenly
pitched up about 45 degrees, then abruptly nosed over as it began to
roll. The aircraft entered a nose-down spin and continued in a vertical
descent until impact. A postaccident inspection of the aircraft by the
Safety Board found an outboard section of the left wing about 0.2 miles
northeast of the main wreckage. The main spar of the left wing was
fractured at a point inboard of the aileron and outboard of the flap. The
main spar of the right wing was also fractured about the same location,
but remained attached by the wing's outer skin. According to the kit
designer, the wing design had previously been statically tested to
failure, which had required in excess of 9 G's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: System Three Paint system |
Roger and others considering using System 3 paint;
I painted my Kitfox with System Three about three years ago. The
following is my experience. Roger, you might want to be sitting down
when you read this.
The good news is, which unfortunately doesn't apply to us tin airplane
builders, is it sticks great to fabric, and seems to stick OK to
fiberglass. BUT, after about two years, it started peeling off in sheets
on all my aluminum parts. Primer and all. The first of this year and I
removed all the larger aluminum parts, stripped them down to bare
aluminum, and re-primed them with epoxy primer and DuPont Centari
enamel. The other neat thing that is happening is that blisters are
developing until the clear coat on both the fabric and plastic surfaces.
And you have to clear coat it to get a gloss. A knowledgable person said
it was mildew, which he said is fairly common with clear coats and water
based paints. I made serveral attempts to explain my problems to System
Three, but they offered little help. They did admit that it didn't stick
well to aluminum. (One of the owners has built . .yes . . a plastic
Glasair.)
Now maybe they have improved their paint. I hope so. It hadn't been out
long when I used it. But I'll never use it again.
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q #591 HS finally finsihed
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine bolt attachment for exhaust support |
<< I started out with the Vetterman mild steel, 4 pipe and
switched over to the S.S. cross-over. I initially used stainless steel hose
clamps to clamp the pipes to the support. I had a heck of a time keeping
clamps on the plane. They broke on a regular basis. I'm now using regular
muffler clamps. I know, they're heavey and ugly but they haven't let me
down, yet. If anyone elects to stay with the S.S. hose clamps, I'd
recommend carrying a few spares in the plane and checking security on the
pipes before every flight. >>
A clamp that I have been very pleased with for attaching pipes to their
hangers is available from McMaster-Carr and is called a T-bolt Clamp. It is
p/n 5312K11. I replaced the fiber locknut with an all metal 1/4-20 (coarse
thread) nut and cut off some of the t-bolt length to fit. It is very robust.
These are often used by OEM motorcycle companies for attaching mufflers to
pipes.
-GV
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< would anyone on the list be able to direct me to a first class uphostery
shop? I would like a professional job. >>
DJ Lauritsen at Cleaveland tool is the class act.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Sealed nut plates and screws |
Where can I get the sealed nut plates (NAS1473 ?) that are used for fuel
tanks. No luck in the ACS catalog.
Hi Mark
Spencer Aircraft Ph. 800-424-1160 specialize in aerospace fasteners. They
are located close to Boeing in Seattle. Not sure if they are in Yeller
Pages and how their prices compare.
They have a nice catalog that lists the NAS1473A self sealing nut plate.
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
6A - Fuel Tanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | frustrated! tach problems! |
Would appreciate any input/advice on my tach problem:
The facts:
I am using an Electronics Int'l. tach. Since I have only one mag,(Lightspeed
CDI), both leads are attached to the mag switch. My mag switch is a simple
toggle switch that grounds the P lead when turned off.
When I first started flying my plane, the tach would occasionaly get
"skittish" and the readings would jump a round alittle. After about 4-5 hours
this seemed to stop and the tach worked great for another 15 hrs. Then, all of
a sudden, while on a flight returning home from Sacramento a couple of weeks
ago, it started again. All the way home,(2 hours) the tach just jumped around
and never stabilized on a reading.
What is really strange is that after landing I noticed that it was working
well again. I taxied back to my hangar, did alittle run -up and the tach
worked great! I sent the tach back to EI and had it checked out. They said
that it was fine, no problems. I put the tach back in and the problem
persists! It works well on the ground,(under 1700rpm) but stops during take-
off and while flying. The readings tend to fluctuate around the lower end of
the scale,( 500-800 rpms).
This evening I thought I would try a different tach; installed a Westach
unit, and surprise, surprise, it does the SAME thing! Good , solid readings
at the lower rpms, but when I rev her up, the needle starts jumping around.
This unit is an electronic unit as well, installed just like the EI unit,( to
the P lead at the switch.)
I really do not know where to go from here, any suggestions?
Thanks, Walt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy pop riveting? |
Canopy number 2 is at the stage of final installation on the tip-up. However
this problem can apply to either style canopy. I had intended to install
6-32 screws to hold the canopy to the roll bar after tapping the roll bar.
One tap snapped in the roll bar. After a lot of effort I finally removed
the broken tap. I quit for the day to rethink whether I really wanted to do
this if it was that easy to snap the small tap.
Re-reading various idea articles, the Rvator August '97 was but one that
said " pop rivets may place too much clamping pressure on the acrylic to
permit free movement".
So, I am in the process of using scrap acrylic with the holes drilled to
5/32" holes to pop rivet to alum. strips with holes drilled to the normal
1/8". I will then heat to see the reaction.
The article also says that RTV will be destroyed by the movement and
suggests 1/16" rubber strips as a sealant.
I know there must be lots of pop riveted canopies out there. What have you
gentleman found that have had time on your airplane? What size holes did
you drill for both the pop rivets and the screws? How did you seal?
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
I've drilled & clecoed the most rear ward skin on the fuselage. Now I'm up
to the one right behind the baggage compartment. I have a slider going on
and I was wandering about the triangle looking piece on top do I trim
around
that or position directly over it? It is the piece right on top behing the
baggage
area. Thanks.
Mike Comeaux
RV6A-QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe03 <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
I dimpled my 606 on my Left Elevator instead of countersinking it like
the plans say. The plans say to countersink the 606 so the trim tab
hinge doesn't need to be dimpled or countersunk. Is there any problem
with just dimpling the trim tab hinge? I will have to grind my set a
little, but I should be able to get it to fit.
Thanks
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Flap Hinge Problem |
| From: | "William H. Watson" <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net> |
Maybe this will work:
I had almost the same problem, but on the hinge side. The edge distance
on the hinge itself was less than 1/4." So I put a rivet between the
each existing rivet, but higher on the hinge; still OK on the wing skin.
This is a ziz-zag pattern. Later, I saw the same pattern and attachment
approach on the flap hinges of a Beech 18 at the Palo Alto airport. Cool.
If your DAR agrees, add another row with the proper edge distance.
Bill Watson
Left Wing closed!
>
>I had the local DAR in yesterday to look at the wings of my RV6 prior to
>closing, he found one item that I was going to re-do. Where the Piano Hinge
>for the flap meets the flap brace & the skin, I dont have enough edge
>distance
>on the skin.
>
>Has anyone else runinto this - Is the larger Piano Hinge Van's offers the
>correct
>fix?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Home made trim tab ribs |
Hi Group:
I decided to bag the idea of trying to bend the tabs on the
elevator skin at the trim tab cutout, and I have made a little rib to
insert there as was kindly suggested by most of you. How did you rivet
this in? Is it best to rivet it so that the rib web is flush with the
skins, or rivet it in the same manner as the tip and root ribs, where
the rib flanges are flush. I am leaning toward the latter suggestion,
as then I can rivet it in with solid rivets and avoid using cs4-4's.
Thanks as always for the help.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 Left elevator and Trim tabs
Wing Kit due just after Oshkosh!!
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
After drilling 4 5/32" holes 2 1/2" apart, 3/8" from the edge in the acrylic
and 1/8" (#30) holes in the aluminum I pop riveted the project together. It
was heated until I couldn't touch it and then I stuck it in the freezer for
approximately 45 min. Then it was banged on the counter top a few times for
good measure and allowed to get back to room temp. I carefully examined it
and nothing happened, Nada!
I am not sure if I answered my own question or not...?
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
m
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 N801RV FLIES!!! |
Congratulations!!! BTW, flying the RV-8A to Sun-n-Fun, we used less fuel
than the RV-6A (Old Blue) going the same speed and loaded about the same.
Soooo, if you're a little conservative with the go lever, it isn't that bad.
Les Williams
>
>Today is the day I've been waiting on for 22 months. She left the earth
for
>the first time!!!! The first flight lasted 1.4 hours. I returned to the
>ground only to fill 'er up and off I went again. Boy, does that IO-360
drink
>fuel. This is the third RV that I have had the honor and fortune of flying
on
>the initial flight and it doesn't get any less exciting. It's dark now. I
>can hardly wait for the sun to come up tomorrow. Keep building guys.
There
>is a light at the end of the tunnel and boy is it bright.
>
>Regards,
>Louis Smith
>RV-8 N801RV
>SN:80126
>3 hours TTSN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jacquelyn eastburn <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 N801RV FLIES!!! |
yahooo!!!!!!
jim eastburn ser# 80079
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 N801RV FLIES!!! |
<<
Congratulations!!! BTW, flying the RV-8A to Sun-n-Fun, we used less fuel
than the RV-6A (Old Blue) going the same speed and loaded about the same.
Soooo, if you're a little conservative with the go lever, it isn't that bad.
Les Williams
>>
Les,
Thanks. It's just so much fun to push on that go lever though! :)
Unfortunately, it is raining here today.
Louis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | MN Wing Sat Breakfast |
Fellow Listers, et al:
Just a note to advise everyone of the bi-monthly breakfast hangar session
next Saturday, June 13. Place: Hideaway Cafe, St. Paul Airport, 0900.
Big airshow at Eau Claire the same day (Blue Angels, Golden Knights, Gene
Soucy, etc.) We are planning on flying on over right after breakfast. EAU
airport closes at 1130. Maybe we can assemble a gaggle of RVs (plus one
slow Citabria).
Doug
*******************************************
Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy pop riveting? |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
writes:
Denny,
>I know there must be lots of pop riveted canopies out there. What have
you
>gentleman found that have had time on your airplane? What size holes
did
>you drill for both the pop rivets and the screws? How did you seal?
I used the screw idea you started with. Taping the roll bar shouldn't
be any more difficult than tapping any other piece of metal. I used # 8
screws, but # 6 screws should be enough, especially if you "bond" the
canopy in place. I used left over Pro-Seal. The srew holes in the plexi
were opened up to almost #10 size to allow for movement. Each hole in the
Plexi was countersunk to allow for the use of a counter sunk washer on
the outside. From a practical standpoint, the Pro-Seal alone would hold
the Plexi in place.....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
E. Windsor, Ct.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wichata Kansas?? |
Anybody building or flying a RV live in the Wichata area. I am moving there in
Sept---building a RV-4 and I have a Kitfox I built also. I went out there
recent but did not have time to fully investigate the airports and hanger
facilities--some of what I saw was not entirely promising. Can anyone tell me
the best way to go about hanger space in that area and were is the best
facility/s? Are there any fly-in/airport communities that still have unbuilt
lots/property for sale? Thanks in advance for your help--JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Avery Tools Angle Drills or??? |
Does anyone on the list have a knowledge of the Pan American 90 and 45 angle
drills Avery shows in his 98 catalog--the ones listed as being New and
Smaller? How well do they work, are they pro quality, do they tease smoothly
and progressively. If not what brand and model do you recommend as better.
Just bought one of those Sioux 1410 mini-palm drills from Brown Tool on
sale--it is a super little drill and I am looking for similar
quality/compactness in an angle unit. Thanks in advance for any help--JR
PS--I want this stuff for Professional use but if it finds its way into use
building my 4 --well you know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Sorry to bother the list, again. We have ten seats on the order
list. Would anyone else like one before I send the order in on
Monday? Here is a list of those who ordered. If there are any
mistakes, please holler at me. Michael.
(I only put initials, to protect the innocent!)
J.J.H.-1kev, 1 fbrglas, both gray
B.G.-2 kevs, both gray
W.G.H-2 fiberglass, both gray
T.L.S.-2 kev, both gray
R.G- 1 fibergls, gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
On 6 Jun 98, at 6:37, mcomeaux wrote:
> I've drilled & clecoed the most rear ward skin on the fuselage. Now I'm up
> to the one right behind the baggage compartment. I have a slider going on
> and I was wandering about the triangle looking piece on top do I trim
> around that or position directly over it? It is the piece right on top
> behing the baggage area. Thanks.
That triangle piece will be under your top skin when you are finished. Don't
trim the top skin there. In fact, leave the top skin well forward of that area
until
you install the canopy and see exactly what contour you want in the fuselage
top skin in order to meet smootly with the canopy
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Camloc in oil door (-6) |
How does one keep the camlock fasteners from falling out of the oil door? It
looks like it'll just be held in by the little tiny "prongs" that engage in the
recepticle. Perhaps I should epoxy it in place?
Thanks,
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Malott" <drmalott(at)hotmail.com> |
Walt
I have a EI tach and a EI CHT/EGT gauge. I have not had an problem
with either of them, but the other night sitting on the ground with the
engine off and the master and gauges on I hit the transmit button on the
radio and the CHT/EGT gauge temp reading changed. I then tried
different frequencies on the radio , the higher the freq. the more
the gauge changed in the temperature reading. The only thing I could
suggest is see if something else is producing electrical interfere
nce in your panel.
David Malott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy pop riveting? |
I will agree with this post, fwiw.. If you are having problems with
tapping hole, maybe you need to take some lessons in tapping or study a
machinist's book about how to do it.. Not to be critical but some
builders may not know how to tap metal properly. Also a tapping fluid
may help. Most of all go slow. Tap each hole carefully. Best of
luck, Phil
Frederic w Stucklen wrote:
> Stucklen)
>
> writes:
> Denny,
>
> >I know there must be lots of pop riveted canopies out there. What
> have
> you
> >gentleman found that have had time on your airplane? What size
> holes
> did
> >you drill for both the pop rivets and the screws? How did you seal?
>
> I used the screw idea you started with. Taping the roll bar
> shouldn't
> be any more difficult than tapping any other piece of metal. I used #
> 8
> screws, but # 6 screws should be enough, especially if you "bond" the
> canopy in place. I used left over Pro-Seal. The srew holes in the
> plexi
> were opened up to almost #10 size to allow for movement. Each hole in
> the
> Plexi was countersunk to allow for the use of a counter sunk washer on
>
> the outside. From a practical standpoint, the Pro-Seal alone would
> hold
> the Plexi in place.....
>
> Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
> wstucklen1(at)juno.com
> E. Windsor, Ct.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Horace W Weeks <74664.2105(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Camloc in oil door (-6) |
There should be a steel retainer with internal spring tabs that press down
over the flanged cam-loc body. After it is pressed on you will have to cut
it to remove it, so I am waiting until the door is painted before I press
the retainer ring on.
Ace Weeks
RV-6
Installing the panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy pop riveting? |
>
> I used the screw idea you started with. Taping the roll bar shouldn't
>be any more difficult than tapping any other piece of metal. I used # 8
>screws, but # 6 screws should be enough, especially if you "bond" the
>canopy in place.
Hi Fred, I backed off on the #6 tap with the breakage. Why it broke
I am not sure. I used #36 drill, but seemed stiff to turn. I turned the
bit in a ways, back it out then back in. When it broke it was almost flush
to the roll over bar. No way to get to the back side and no real clean way
of working from the front. Finally after drilling a series holes next to the
offending tap bit with model airplane size drlls got it out. So I am either
moving up to the #8 or pop rivet as called for on the plans. I am still
thinking....on which one.
I looked at another local airplane at our RV BBQ here last week that
had used Proseal with rivets. It is a concideration for a very secure canopy.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Camloc in oil door (-6) |
There are special washers that crimp on the under side.
However sometimes if they are captive you cant get the
door open .
RV4 273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Please Read - New List Feature... |
Listers:
With way over 1000 members on the combined RV and Zenith email lists, I
have to stay on top of bouncing email accounts. The amount of returned mail
can reach the 4-5 Mb per day mark very quickly. As stated in the FAQ,
I will generally remove an address from the List if it is causing bounce
problems.
Many times the problem was transient and the person's email may be working
again in a few days or so. Since the sheer volume of bounce mail makes being
too picky about who gets removed impossible, I simply tell List subscribers
that if their email is working okay now, to just go ahead and resubscribe.
"But how do I know if I've been removed from the List?" Well, there are
some tools within the Majordomo List manager, but admittedly these are not
for the faint of heart...
Alas, I have written special web page that will list every email address
that is removed from the List and exactly why it was removed. The Page
will be automatically updated each time I "clean house" and the most
receint removals can be found at the top of the list. If you do find
your email address on the removal list, note the cause of the removal, and
if it has been fixed, there are hyperlinks on the page to the resubscribe
to the List of your choice. (The new digest lists are not explicitly shown
but can be subscribed to by simply adding a "-digest" to the email address,
e.g. "rv-list-request" becomes "rv-list-digest-request").
I just cleaned-house on the Lists this morning and these address are _not_
shown on the new page since I wrote it after I cleaned, but there are
a couple of entries in there now so you can get an idea of how it works.
To access the new list page, simply surf over to the respective List web
page and click on the hyperlink intitled "Hey I'm Not Getting List Mail
Anymore!"...
The URLs are:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/index.html
and
http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list/index.html
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
List Administrator
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Overhaul questions |
I am in the early stages of overhauling my Lycoming O235 (and plan on doing my
own O320 or O360 when my RV4 project is ready for an engine).
I now need to review all Service Bulletins and Service Instructions so I can
ensure I comply with all the most recent requirements. Lycoming tells me I
have to go to an A&P and review all the documents to ensure nothing is
overlooked.
It seems there must be a better way. Lycoming offers the documents on CD rom,
but the cost is too high to justify. They also offer a one time issuance of
the documents, but it is about 100 dollars. I would like to avoid spending
another 100 dollars if I can. Does anyone have a better way to get
information on Lycoming engines?
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings (once I get this engine back together)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
Anyone at the point of building the fuselage,that lives
near Nashville,Tn please E-Mail me so that I may get
some information on the plans...
Thanks
John McMahon
E-Mail rv6(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phoenix, Arizona |
Fletcher:
( I appologize for sending this to the entire list, but my email directly
to the individual bounced.)
You wrote:
>I'm looking for some contacts and info of Phoenix, Arizona area RV'ers
>for hanger space or sharing if possible. I understand the Arizona area
>is quite RV active.
Give me a call at 602-931-6605. THough I don't know of any hangar
spaces right off the top of my head, I can sure ask around, and I can give you
names and phone numbers of some other folks to contact.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
RV-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pmartin Compaq" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Avery Tools Angle Drills or??? |
Dear JR,
I bought one of Avery's Pan Am 90 degree angle drills 2 years ago at
Oshkosh for approx. $265 on sale. I have found it to be one of the most
usefull high quality tools that I have ever owned. It is indespensib le on
the RV8 that I am building. I would not hesitate to buy another one from
Avery.
I have had good luck with all of Avery/s tools. Not the cheapest, but
certainly the best. I also tried 3 different rivit squeezers before I
finally gave up an bought Avery's good one.. First a US Tool squeezer. Of
but hard to use. Next a Tatco. Looks good, but is not stiff enought and
tends to roll the shop head of to either side. Last I bought Avery';s
latest squeezer of his own design and am very happy with it. I have found
that the 1 1/2", 2 1/2" close quarter, 2 1/2" offset and 4" dies to be
necessary on my RV 8. The only one I could get along without would be the
4" die.
GOOD TOOLS ALWAYS PAY DIVIDENDS.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
80124 airframe essentially done installing innards
----------
> From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Avery Tools Angle Drills or???
> Date: Saturday, June 06, 1998 4:04 PM
>
>
> Does anyone on the list have a knowledge of the Pan American 90 and 45
angle
> drills Avery shows in his 98 catalog--the ones listed as being New and
> Smaller? How well do they work, are they pro quality, do they tease
smoothly
> and progressively. If not what brand and model do you recommend as
better.
> Just bought one of those Sioux 1410 mini-palm drills from Brown Tool on
> sale--it is a super little drill and I am looking for similar
> quality/compactness in an angle unit. Thanks in advance for any help--JR
> PS--I want this stuff for Professional use but if it finds its way into
use
> building my 4 --well you know.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Hinge |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I dimpled my 606 on my Left Elevator instead of countersinking it like
>the plans say. The plans say to countersink the 606 so the trim tab
>hinge doesn't need to be dimpled or countersunk. Is there any problem
>with just dimpling the trim tab hinge? I will have to grind my set a
>little, but I should be able to get it to fit.
>
>Thanks
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 Page at:
>http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
>
>
>
Moe,
If I am remembering correctly, the reason for machine countersinking the
606 is so that you don't have to do anything to the holes in the hinge
(because there would be a flush surface where the hinge contacted the
606). This is desirable because the hinge material is rather soft, and
if you machine countersink there is not much of that soft material left
to hold the rivets (not a good thing). I would recommend that for
strength you also dimple the hinge. The other reason it is done the
other way is that dimpling the hinge tends to distort and curve it
somewhat, but it should be a problem with a piece that short.
Remember this later though when you are fitting the flap hinges on the
wings. It is the exact same situation only then you are dealing with a
long piece of hinge.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | rear fuselage skin |
I asked earlier about mounting the rear skin just behind the baggage area.
There is a triagular piece on top that it will cover up. Do I lay out my
rivet
spacing over that as well? I would like to corespond with someone else
that is constucting a QB-6A . When I do cover this plate it will set my
skin
off the bulkhead a little distance do I shim? If someone is interested in
e-mail
their phone number off the list I would appreciate it. Thanks.....
Mike Comeaux
mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tach problem |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Walt,
I meant to reply to your post but accidently deleted it so I am piggy
back on someone elses... hence no text from your message.
Since you mentioned that you are sensing RPM from only one mag
(because you have elect ignition) I would be suspect of a problem with
that mag. Especially since the westach did the same thing.
I have installed and flown the E.I. tach in 3 or 4 RV's and never had any
problems with them (I actually really like there instruments).
But I don't know what type of mag problem could cause this.
I am guessing, but maybe a bad condenser? Or the points pitted and
arcing?
One thing I have done in the past in working with other electronic tachs
is use an oscilloscope to look at the P lead line signal.
You may see some type of break-up of the signal at higher RPM's (assuming
you have access to one).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Overhaul questions |
<< Does anyone have a better way to get
information on Lycoming engines? >>
Try Greg Travis' page at <http://www.prime-mover.com>
-GV
that engage in
the
recepticle. Perhaps I should epoxy it in place? >>
There are two types of retainers for these. They're listed on the lower left
corner of page 104 in the ACS catalog. The split washer type allows more
movement for use on an outside radius. The internal tooth washer is like a
press-on barbed retainer similar to what is used to keep metal insignias on
car bodies.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PILOT8127(at)aol.com |
Hi All Listers,
June 6th, dawned bright and sunny. Wind calm. Sky clear. Perfect RV
weather.....
Three RV-4's (two 160's and one 180), Dennis from Kokomo, In., Jim from
Speedway, In., and one from Chicago area (Missed his name). Tom's Harmon-
ROCKET was there. Dave and his 6A. Bob and his "NEW" 6 (180 w/ C/S) and
absolutely "gorgous" PANEL !. And my RV-3 (160). Shawnee Field @ Bloomfield,
In. was a mecca of RV activities all afternoon. This is the most RV's
gathered in Central Indiana I have seen for awhile. Many formation flights,
demo rides, field "strafing" runs, and 200+ low passes. 45 total airplanes.
But as usual Van's "AIR-Force" stole the show. Mike Wonder put on the food,
and the RV's did the rest.....
Gary Rodgers and N5AJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net> |
| Subject: | Engine bolt attachment for exhaust suppor |
Larry,
I went through this decision-making process a year ago. The Vetterman
instructions show the exhaust supported from the engine frame. I telephone
to check this was recommended.
Although it seems more logical to support the exhaust back to the engine,
the angle is so acute, that the support would be minimal.
I therefore suspended the exhaust, using a rubber strap purchased from a
car place, it came with a metal attachment which is attached to the exhaust
with a stainless steel pipe clamp.
The upper end is attached to part of the engine mount, again with a metal
strap. I then put a metal tube, with the ends flattened between the two
clamps at the lower end, so the lateral movement of the exhausts is
limited.
This system has survived for 150 hours so far.
John
Newmarket, Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Hi Brian, My frame is all alumn. as it is the tip up. That is why used it
in my little test. An RV BBQ I went to last week there were 5 RVs there. 2
tipups -6, 2 sliders -6A and the RV-8A. One tipup and one slider had cracks.
One in the front lower corner which was glued back and one in the back
corner, also glue patched. Both owners said they happened shortly after
installation. They were not sure why.
It appears to me now that the all alumn. pop rivets on the roll bars
thru 5/32" holes in the plexi. and #6 screws for the rest thru 3/8" holes
is a ok combination. The latter can take a larger hole I believe because of
alumn.skin outside and plastic washers inside are used to squeeze/hold the
plexi and thereby allowing free movement in those areas. The 5/32" holes in
the plexi on rollover bar area is as large a hole in the plexi and 1/8"holes
in the roll bars, I believe, that is safely used to hold with a pop rivet.
This should allow a progressive stretch and contraction between the holes
due to heat and cooling. Some builders are using Proseal on the roll over
bar portion. That is a consideration, though many of flying RVers that I
have talked to say it is unnecessary. My concern, probably unfounded, is
that it would either prohibit the plastic to move or the proseal would give
way if the first did not happen. That is purely conjecture on my part.
If I would not have had the tap breakage experience I would have
done #6 screws on the roll over bar portion because I felt that with screws
there was more control on pressure applied to the plexi. But the enclosed
roll bar scared me off that idea when I broke the tap. High odds say it was
my fault not a faulty tap. For those with more tooling experience and/or a
better touch, the screws would still be the way to go I believe.
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sweemer" <teetime(at)flinthills.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wichata Kansas?? |
-----Original Message-----
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, June 06, 1998 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wichata Kansas??
>This may or may not be of interest to you. Last year in the Wichita area
there was a small airshow which to my understanding there were a few RV's
there. I couldn't go but was told that after the fact.
I live 120 miles north of Wichita in a little town called Ogden, Kansas.
I am building an RV4 and just need the last kit, engine and instruments (and
the money to get them!)
Tim
>Anybody building or flying a RV live in the Wichata area. I am moving there
in
>Sept---building a RV-4 and I have a Kitfox I built also. I went out there
>recent but did not have time to fully investigate the airports and hanger
>facilities--some of what I saw was not entirely promising. Can anyone tell
me
>the best way to go about hanger space in that area and were is the best
>facility/s? Are there any fly-in/airport communities that still have
unbuilt
>lots/property for sale? Thanks in advance for your help--JR
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I think I would like one, should I call you or e-mail.
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tach problem |
>
>
> Walt,
> Since you mentioned that you are sensing RPM from only one mag
> (because you have elect ignition) I would be suspect of a problem with
> that mag. Especially since the westach did the same thing.
> I have installed and flown the E.I. tach in 3 or 4 RV's and never had any
> problems with them (I actually really like there instruments).
> But I don't know what type of mag problem could cause this.
> I am guessing, but maybe a bad condenser? Or the points pitted and
> arcing?
Walt - sounds like a change of the point set may be in order. Occasionally the
tension spring will loose tension and allow the points to bounce causing a slight
miss in the engine and erratic tach readings. Also check to see if the cam lobe
is
dry as a dry rubbing block on the points can also cause the condition you
describe. Lots of times all you need to correct this condition is a touch of
grease.
Hope this helps - Have fun flying.
Doug Murray - RV-6 Engine area
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Reserving N numbers |
Listers;
Can anyone direct me to the proper agency for reserving one's N number? What
is the basic procedure?
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500
Vancouver, WA
Van's Air Force - Home Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plexi attach methods |
If I would not have had the tap breakage experience I would have
>done #6 screws on the roll over bar portion because I felt that with screws
>there was more control on pressure applied to the plexi. But the enclosed
>roll bar scared me off that idea when I broke the tap. High odds say it was
>my fault not a faulty tap. For those with more tooling experience and/or a
>better touch, the screws would still be the way to go I believe.
>Have a great day!
>Denny - RV-6
Have you considered "riv-nuts"? These would require only a plain hole in
the rollbar, and could be replaced if ever over tightened and stripped (as
opposed to tapping in the rollbar material) There are several sizes and
grip lengths. They can be set with a puller that resembles a pop-rivet
tool (in fact I have seen threaded mandrels for installing riv-nuts which
work with a standard pop-rivet squeezer!) and the riv-nuts are quite
inexpensive.
For those that have never seen one, think pop-rivet with inside threads to
accept a screw, and instead of "popping" them, one pulls them tight with a
threaded mandrel which is then unscrewed.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plexi attach methods |
>Have you considered "riv-nuts"?
>Bob Steward, A&P IA
>AA-1B N8978L
>AA-5A N1976L
Hi Bob, I had a passing thought as I was searching the supply catalogs on
the riv-nuts. I was under the impression that they required a expensive
tool. I will have to check that option better. Thanks.
By the way my plan call for either AACQ-4-4 or Ak-44-BS. In the
experimenting I was doing it appears that -4 with a grip of .187 - .250
would be to short for the main roll over bar and acrylic. Mine averages
.286. The -5 has .250 - .312.
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
NTS
Kit A (2.5 oz.) cartridge, p/n 09-38500 2 oz. $14.95
Kit B (6 oz.) cartridge, p/n 09-38510 3.5 oz. $16.85
Questions:
1. Has anyone used this?
2. Is this a better way to go?
3. Is the hand-dispensing gun listed below the sealant worth the $63.75?
4. What's the best/easiest way to measure and mix ProSeal if I go with the
conventional stuff?
Thanks!
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, wings
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Overhaul questions |
>I now need to review all [Lycoming] Service Bulletins and Service
Instructions so I can
>ensure I comply with all the most recent requirements. Lycoming tells me I
>have to go to an A&P and review all the documents to ensure nothing is
>overlooked.
>
>It seems there must be a better way. Lycoming offers the documents on CD
rom,
>but the cost is too high to justify. They also offer a one time issuance of
>the documents, but it is about 100 dollars. I would like to avoid spending
>another 100 dollars if I can. Does anyone have a better way to get
>information on Lycoming engines?
In my opinion, NO. I maintain a lycoming SB subscription, and I think it
is pretty low cost. I started this practice years ago when I owned the
Bonanza. Beech would issue a Beechcraft service bulletine or an AD, and it
would simply refer to the TCM service bulletin for the details. I got
tired of imposing on the local FBO for a look at his service bulletins.
So now that I have a Lyc, I keep a Lyc SB subscription. Yup, it was $100 to
get started. After that it's $40/year. I get all the service bulletins,
service letters, and Service Instructions when they come out. I'm also
better informed than all my flying buddies who only hear about the SB's
second or third hand. Look at it this way, for someone to sit down and go
thru all the service bulletins, service letters, and service instructions
in the set and find the ones applicable to your engine would take about 2-3
hours. An A&P would probably charge you $100 for that. Well, why not just
get the SB set and do it yourself. You'll learn a whole lot more in the
process.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Jackson" <gfj(at)ballistic.com> |
| Subject: | Visit to Austin, Tx this month |
I am visiting Austin, TX on Tuesday, June the 16th, and Sunday, June the
21st, and would enjoy seeing some RV aircraft. I am considering buying a
RV-8. I would appreciate spending some time with some builders. Thanks....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plexi attach methods |
In a message dated 6/7/98 2:15:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, harje(at)proaxis.com
writes:
<< >Have you considered "riv-nuts"?
>Bob Steward, A&P IA
>AA-1B N8978L
>AA-5A N1976L
Hi Bob, I had a passing thought as I was searching the supply catalogs on
the riv-nuts. I was under the impression that they required a expensive
tool. I will have to check that option better. Thanks.
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
>>
Denny,
I used a countersunk rivnuts on my -6 tip up role over. I used the
inexpensive setting tool with my pop rivet squeezer and it worked great. Be
careful when you install the screws. The rivnuts can work loose and just spin
in their hole. Some rivnuts are keyed to keep them from spinning. I didn't
use them but you could probably make a small notch in the hole for the key by
using a small needle file. If you want I can research my files to find out
exactly what pieces and parts I used. Contact me off list.
Rick McBride
RV-6 N523JC
RV-8 80027
rickrv6(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
Hi Randy,
> Getting ready to do my fuel tanks soon and contemplating my
> encounter with the dreaded black stuff.
Really, it's not that bad.
> I remember reading somewhere that ACS had an
> alternative version of ProSeal that comes in some sort of
> container that does the measuring and mixing for you, then
> dispenses via cartridge. No muss, no fuss... sounds good to me.
The muss and fuss doesn't come from the measuring and mixing!
> 4. What's the best/easiest way to measure and mix ProSeal if I
> go with the conventional stuff?
Make yourself a little balance -- from the balance point to one end
should be 20 inches, to the other end 2 inches (ie 10:1).
Now, my question for listers: When Proseal/rivetting things with holes
in them (eg the drain flange, nutplates), how do you stop Proseal from
oozing into the holes? I've put screws in, but I'm a bit worried the
Proseal will stick them in permanently.
My tank experiences can be found at
<http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/4809/bunny2c.htm>.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | jumping from sliders |
Hi everyone,
When my RV-8A is done, I plan to do the usual amount of aerobatics for fun.
Naturally, I would plan to have a parachute, but I wonder how easy it is to get
out of the sliding canopy. On all the other RV canopy designs, there's always
been a built-in way for the canopy to come off if needed, but I can't remember
reading about any such method for the sliders. In fact, I seem to recall some
debate about whether you would be able to even slide it back due to the force of
the air against it.
Can you get out quickly if needed?
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
SlingShot SS-003, N8754K
RV-8A, 80587 (confidently waiting for wings)
rad(at)pen.net
http://www.pen.net/~rad/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy pop riveting? |
| From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Denny,
Maybe you had a weak tap and it just was it's time to break. Murphy's
law strikes again.....
The other advantage to using the Pro0Seal is that the canopy doesn't
leak when you fly in the rain....
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
E. Windsor, Ct.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reserving N numbers |
Randy,
The info below is correct that Denny posted except that the Registration
Form does not need to be used. Simply a letter stating the numbers requested
will suffice. You only need to send in $10, not the $5 and $10. You are not
registering anything, simply reserving an N number, which costs $10 per
twelve months. You will receive a reminder in the mail from the FAA in the
eleventh month asking whether you wish to renew your number or let it lapse.
This is how my reserved number has been handled.
Gary Baker
RV-6 (Working on wings)
N4GB (Reserved)
Medina, OH
>
>>
>>Can anyone direct me to the proper agency for reserving one's N number?
What
>>is the basic procedure?
>
>
>Hi Randy, I wrote the FAA, Aircraft Registration Branch, P.O. 25504,
>Oklahoma City, OK 73125-0504. Phone (405)954-3116
>
>I sent a Aircraft Registration Application form. This form can be gotten
>from the local FAA or OK city, $5.00 for registration and $10.00 for
>reserving my number for one year. This fee has to be sent in every year
>until you are certified. >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
I screwed up the tabs on my left elevator today. I will have to make a
rib, so should I make the rib flange inboard or outboard?
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Devil and the Details |
I was out flying today. Had no qualms at all about flying the old dear. However,
reading about the recent incidents involving some high profile aircraft has
me thinking. It doesn't make me nervous flying a proven design (RV-4);
flying is an activity I don't tend to take lightly anyway. It does make me
think more about what I may learn from the occurances, even if WE DON'T KNOW
WHAT HAPPENED.
It is hard to think my skills would compare to a pilot that had 10,000
hours. I would like to think, however, that my skills represent the hours I
do have. I am pretty obsessive about my flying and have many "rules" I have
developed over the years that define how I fly. Some are pretty definite,
some are less well defined. Sometimes I don't go flying just because it
"feels" like I shouldn't go flying.
I try to fly a lot. I try to improve my flying skills on most every flight,
assessing how I flew and how the airplane flew. I like to have the runway at
a particular place on the wing as I fly every downwind in a pattern. I like
to have my turn to final line up with the center line of the runway every
time, final speed nailed on final. I like to have cross-country flights
accurate in navigation and elevation/airspeed within certain limits. I like
my flying to be as precise as I can. I am proud to be a pilot and hope my
skills represent that pride.
I am also proud to have built the airplane I fly in. There are few pilots
around and fewer still who have built their own airplane. There is skill
involved in the building and the flying of the aircraft we pilot. It took a
while to get my airplane built the way I wanted it built and it will take
some time to be able to fly it the way I think it should be flown. Probably
as long as I have the airplane.
During construction, the devil is in the details. We have certain control
over how our airplanes are built. There are variances in some of the things
we do, there are some things that HAVE to be built a certain way. And there
are things we cannot forget. Rivets in the torque tubes for the controls,
for example. We can avoid those mistakes by being careful builders and
careful inspectors.
Inspections: we inspect our airplanes many times (by ourselves and by
others) before the first flight. Inspect the airplane like a 100 hour after
the first flight, after 10 hours, 50 hours and then the usual 100 or annual
inspection. Things can work loose, crack or break. Find them ahead of time.
Preflight inspection should be a religion. I don't like to talk to or be
bothered by anyone during my preflight inspections. I have had other pilots
ask me 'What are you doing?' during my preflight, insinuating they may not
be so picky before their flight. Ok for them. I am about to fly an
Experimental aircraft that I built, through the air at over 160 knots and
perhaps pull 2-3 Gs in the process. This is an activity that should not be
taken for granted.
Maintainance: keeping your steed in absolute top condition. Fixing squawks
as soon as they are noticed. What is that squeek when the ailerons are moved
the last 5 degrees? They still feel smooth. Do I need to open the airframe
up and find that little squeek? Ailerons shouldn't squeek. Find the problem.
Carb heat cable binds every once in a while? Pull the cowling and find the
problem before you have to fly home from somewhere with full carb heat on
when you didn't want it.
Training: we have to fly with someone to demonstrate our skills every two
years. What is wrong with getting together with your instructor more often
to go over non-biannual flying? Accelerated stalls. Aerobatics. Emergency
procedures. You can also self-train. Review your emergency engine-out
procedures to emergency landing touchdown. Do you do everything right and in
the same sequence every time? Did you forget to turn the fuel off
(simulated, of course, during practice) before touchdown ? (You DO have an
emergency routine/check list, don't you?) Do you know where you would land
from, say, right here? What is your best glide speed? Practice, practice,
practice. Then the emergency will seem more like a routine.
Practice slow flight, stalls, stop-and-goes. Stuff we did as students to
learn the skills. We need our skills polished. Boring holes in the sky is OK
every once in a while, but some time should be dedicated to learning the
airplane. I think you should try to know as much as you can. Military
aviators know way more than they need to. What is your wing loading? How
about the power loading? How many square feet of wing do you have, anyway?
What is YOUR airplanes best glide speed? Do you HAVE to know this stuff to
fly your airplane well? No. But it will get you to know the small things
about your airplane which may help with the big stuff.
Flying is as safe as we make it. There can be some things beyond our control
we cannot plan for that have a bad outcome. But we can influence those
things we have the ability to.
Traffic was thick this morning, as it was the first day of good flying
weather we have had in several days and everyone was up. I was searching the
skies quite a bit, looking for bogies. Great to have the visibility, but you
have to use it. It still amazes me how many airplanes I fly near while out
flying the -4. Space between closes fast. The old J-3 Cub can't catch up
with anyone. By the way, I saw the F-16s again today. Flying formation,
finger four left, coming at me, my altitude. I saw the canopies and the
short wings head-on and at first, thought it was a formation of RV-4s coming
at me! Then I saw what they were, coated canopies shining in the sun, slight
right turn. I rocked my wings with gusto; wanted to form up, ;>) but they
showed no signs of having seen me. What were they going to do, wave back in
formation? Well, I had a 727 wave back one time................
Build 'em right, fly 'em safely.
Michael
RV-4 N 232 Suzie Q
Developing the Trust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Rib |
>I screwed up the tabs on my left elevator today. I will have to make a
>rib, so should I make the rib flange inboard or outboard?
>
>--
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 page at:
>http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Moe,
No problem. I made a small rib right from the start...since I KNEW I
would mess up the tabs by trying to fold them. I faced the flanges
outboard, and blind riveted it in place with CS4-4 rivets. It looks
fabulous, and I wouldn't change a thing. Oh, I made the little rib out
of .020 alclad, and used a piece of file folder paper as a template
before cutting any alclad. It took all of ten minutes.
Press on!
Brian Denk
-8 #379
wings 99% done...99% left to go.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | FAB Fitting Follies |
Listers,
I've been working on the filtered air box (FAB), and am up against a bit of a
problem/decision. With the new model of FAB (not the one shown in the
Orndorff video) the air filter sits between the fiberglass bottom of the FAB and
the aluminum top plate that bolts to the carb. This constrains the angle at
which the entire FAB assembly can be tilted, since one must keep the air filter
tightly squeezed.
I bent the front portion of the FAB's metal top cover up as much as I could to
meet the opening in the cowl air scoop, but it really should be higher to get
the top of the FAB input aligned with the top of the opening in the cowl scoop.
In addition, the inlet into the FAB is about 3/8" taller than the opening in the
cowl scoop.
I can see three options:
1. Leave the cowl scoop and FAB alone and fabricate the "tunnel" per the
instructions. The tunnel will have a significant down slope to get from the
cowl scoop inlet down to the opening in the FAB. The 1" long tunnel would
provide a more or less smooth transition between the smaller cowl scoop
opening and the larger FAB inlet opening. The down side is that the tunnel
has to angle down pretty steeply, which looks to me like it would inhibit air
flow.
2. Leave the FAB alone, and move the cowl scoop aft until it's only 1/4" away
from the FAB inlet. This also lowers the cowl scoop, and it meets up pretty
well with the FAB inlet. This entirely eliminates the need to build the
fiberglass tunnel mentioned in the FAB instructions. I believe I can seal the
transition well with the rubber gap seal. The only problem I can see here is
that the cowl scoop opening is smaller than the FAB opening, so without
building the "tunnel" there's a discontinuity (smaller hole leading to larger
hole) between the cowl scoop opening and the (larger) FAB inlet hole. I
recall hearing that that sort of discontinuity generally increases drag, although
I don't know what the impact would be 12" behind the prop where the cowl
scoop is.
3. I could perform radical surgery on my completed FAB box, cutting the
fiberglass portion and angling the front portion up more to meet the cowl
scoop location. In the process I could shrink the size of the FAB opening to
match the cowl scoop opening. I'd need to build the fiberglass tunnel per the
FAB plans.
I'm inclined to go with solution #2. It avoids the angled tunnel section of #1
and it avoids the radical surgery of #3. Any ideas from the list?
Thanks,
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Rib |
>
>I screwed up the tabs on my left elevator today. I will have to make a
>rib, so should I make the rib flange inboard or outboard?
>
>--
>Moe Colontonio
Moe,
I would say that it is purely a matter of personal preference. If
the flange is outboard, you can use AN rivets, but the edge of the
cutout is not smooth. If the flange faces inboard, the edge of the
cutout is smooth, but you have to use pop rivets. I don't believe
there would be any functional difference between the two options.
I put my flange inboard, and had the delusion that I could open the
skin up a bit and rivet the top side with AN rivets before riveting
the skin to the spar, and only have pop rivets on the bottom. Alas,
I decided that there was not enough room to properly rivet, and that
I would risk a skin ding to try, so I have pop rivets top and bottom.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (starting wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)bigskytel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tach problem |
I have noticed this phenomenon as well. Usually (but not always) my EI
CHT/EGT gauge will change, and the red warning lights will come on whenever
I transmit. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, but it was disconcerting the
first couple of times it happened.
Ed Bundy RV6A - Eagle, ID - first flight 11/20/96
ebundy@bigskytel.com - http://www.bigskytel.com/~ebundy/
> I have a EI tach and a EI CHT/EGT gauge. I have not had an problem
> with either of them, but the other night sitting on the ground with the
> engine off and the master and gauges on I hit the transmit button on the
> radio and the CHT/EGT gauge temp reading changed. I then tried
> different frequencies on the radio ,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)mci2000.com> |
>I have a slider going on
> and I was wandering about the triangle looking piece on top do I trim
> around
> that or position directly over it? It is the piece right on top behing
the
> baggage
> area. Thanks.
>
> Mike Comeaux
> RV6A-QB
Mike, check with Van on this, but I believe that the only purpose of the
triangle is to distribute loads from the rollover structure on the tip up.
Shouldn't need it on the slider.
Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN
6A finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> The ACS catalog indicates "We offer a Pro-Seal equivalent which is a B-2
> type material and meets specification MIS-S-8802E, Type II, Class B-2. These
> kits are packaged in poly bags with nozzle, plunger and instructions."
>
> PRO-SEAL TYPE TANK SEALANTS
> Kit A (2.5 oz.) cartridge, p/n 09-38500 2 oz. $14.95
> Kit B (6 oz.) cartridge, p/n 09-38510 3.5 oz. $16.85
>
> Questions:
> 1. Has anyone used this?
Yes.
> 2. Is this a better way to go?
I think so, although I haven't used the "mix in little batches" type
of ProSeal. I have, however, mixed lots of batches of epoxy, and
I figured that this would be easier to mix and apply. The application
to the tank is all long straight seams, which the caulking-gun
style of application is well suited to do.
I used kit "B" shown above. I figured that there wasn't much of a
difference in price to get a lot more of the sealant, compared to
kit "A".
One tube will let you seal four ribs, so you can estimate the amount
of linear distance you can cover. I've still got to attach the
rear baffle and the fuel drains on both tanks, and I expect to
be done after nine tubes.
> 3. Is the hand-dispensing gun listed below the sealant worth the $63.75?
If it's the pneumatic gun, it sure does make it easier. The tubes
are narrower than caulk tubes, and they've got a hemispherical front
end that makes them slide up out of a caulking gun when you near the
end of the tube. The third caulking gun that I tried had a plunger
small enough to fit in the tube. Some times, the cap inside the
tube that gets pushed by the plunger would turn sideways, requiring
a messy adjustment. The caulking guns I was using cost $1.98, so
I just threw them away rather than clean them.
After six tubes, I discovered that one of my neighbors had two of the
pneumatic applicators. It makes the application faster, neater, and
easier. I wouldn't buy one unless I planned on doing more than the
tanks for our plane.
If I had to do it over again, I'd pay to get the pre-made tanks.
The application of the stuff is easy - it's the clean-up that takes
forever and exposes you to lots of solvents. Wear a respirator
at least during clean-up.
--
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Hinge |
<19980316.222957.9534.0.SMCDANIELS(at)juno.com>
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
The
>other reason it is done the
>other way is that dimpling the hinge tends to distort and curve it
>somewhat, but it should be a problem with a piece that short.
In the above I meant to say "it should not be a problem with a piece that
short"
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
JR:
Trivial item, but first things first. "Wichita" is spelled as typed here .
. . might be something a 'local' should know how to do properly. Along
those lines, Wichita is just a small hick town, and we all have horses and
drive pick'em up trucks with a bale of hay in back. Population got up to
293 until that last group of gunslingers came through in a cloud of dust;
now we're down to 287. Rumor has it the injuns are about to raid so we
might be down even smaller tomorrow.
In reality, the Wichita population is over 300,000 in the city proper (not
including the burbs), and we are still the Air Capital of the World with
Raytheon (Beech), Bombardier (Lear), Boeing, Cessna and several homebuilt
companies in town. The 50 year Bonanza anniversary was held here not too
long ago, and the International 180/185 Club will hold their annual
gathering here next weekend (June 13/14). In other words, Wichita is the
biggest small town around, and we'd like to keep it that way. The locals
are very friendly (except while driving) and are willing to help new comers
like y'all any time.
To answer your questions more directly, I would guess that there are about
10 people in the Wichita area that are building RVs. The local EAA chapter
should point you to at least half of those builders. As for the airports,
there are 3 city-owned airports and about 50 grass strips in Sedgwick County
alone (yes, "Sedgwick" is spelled correctly . . . . remember the injuns I
mentioned before . . . . ). I would also venture to say that there are
10-12 "airport communities" in the area, too; it all depends on how far you
want to drive. If you're coming from a large city, no drive in Wichita is
too far. We're 12 miles out of town to the west/southwest and can reach the
northeast side in 35-40 minutes. Restaurant lines around here are a lot
longer than that.
If you've gotten through all the bull up to this point in the story, you
can't be all that bad. E-mail me personally, and I can tell you a lot more.
I would like to know what/who brings you to Wichita. I am an FTE for a
major producer of light and medium size business jets (who also just entered
the singles market again). We live in an "airport community" and have an -8
tail in the hangar/garage.
Yee Haw from Wichita,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME(at)worldnet.att.net
-----Original Message-----
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, June 06, 1998 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wichata Kansas??
>
>Anybody building or flying a RV live in the Wichata area. I am moving there
in
>Sept---building a RV-4 and I have a Kitfox I built also. I went out there
>recent but did not have time to fully investigate the airports and hanger
>facilities--some of what I saw was not entirely promising. Can anyone tell
me
>the best way to go about hanger space in that area and were is the best
>facility/s? Are there any fly-in/airport communities that still have
unbuilt
>lots/property for sale? Thanks in advance for your help--JR
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James S. Clare" <clare2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | No subject was specified. |
The subject is a RV-4 canopy latch system. If any listers have drawings
or instructions for building a latch system for a partially open canopy
for ground ventilation I sure would appreciate hearing from them. I've
heard that the Puget Sound group has designed a good latch but can't
confirm this. Also saw a great design at Van's fly-in last year. Believe
the -4 was from Illinois, but my drawing is now incomprehensible.
Would be most happy for any suggestions that would improve my nylon cord
full open limit device, too.
Jim Clare
clare2(at)earthlink.net
RV-4 N430BZ
Cornelius, Or.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | McLaughlJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
<< Questions:
1. Has anyone used this?
2. Is this a better way to go?
3. Is the hand-dispensing gun listed below the sealant worth the $63.75?
4. What's the best/easiest way to measure and mix ProSeal if I go with the
conventional stuff?
>>
1. I used it
2. Couldn't say if it was better then the other or not, as the tubes are the
only way I've tried. IMO:
A. Good points:
- No measuring, and mix in the tube.
- Gun applicator is somewhat handy, and may allow you to keep the
mess off of yourself for a little while longer
- Fewer popsicle sticks, and tongue depressers needed (wasted)
- Was able to clean much of my mess as I went with mek - not as bad
as the stories I've heard.
B. Bad points:
- Lots of waste - probably averaged 35%.
- Your batch will set up in 4-5 hours, and you may not be ready to
quit for the day.
- If you don't have the high dollar gun (as I didn't) at about the
3-4 hour mark a normal caulk gun goes south on
you as the sealant hardens (increased pressure blows out the
front weld)
- A little pricey: 3x$17 + 2xshipping (for me) for one tank.
3. Don't know that, but the first time I ruined a cheap caulk gun, I thought
it would have been nice to have the correct tool. (WHWHTB?) I did one tank
with three tubes, was rather slow, and ended two sessions using some pretty
thick (hard) stuff. I beleive I will plan for four sessions next time. I
ruined three $2 guns, and was only able to finish, because my friend welded
the front back on one of the caulk guns. If you could split the cost with at
least one other builder, I beleive the good gun might be justified.
4. Don't know that. See other posts.
This way is viable, but the waste bothered me somewhat, and the batch in the
tube hardens, and slows you down at the absolute worst time - late at night
for me. I hope to reduce some of this by using four tubes next time.
So... good luck.
Joel McLaughlin
-6 Wings
N.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Devil and the Details |
> I try to fly a lot. I try to improve my flying skills on most every
flight,
> assessing how I flew and how the airplane flew. I like to have the runway
at
> a particular place on the wing as I fly every downwind in a pattern. I
like
> to have my turn to final line up with the center line of the runway every
> time, final speed nailed on final.
I enjoyed reading what you had to say, it's very hard not to agree with
you. I'd like to think I was as cautious, but I have no emergency list for
instance. I thought of posting one right beside me but never did. In fact
Friday I discovered as I was entering the Seattle veil that my transponder
wasn't working. Turns out that I inadvertently robbed a fuse when working
with the auto-pilot. An easy fix, but perhaps a warning flag of getting
sloppy. I vow to post the emergency list and update my panel labels, and
even load the extra fuse holder with a fuse this week. One point about
practicing approaches. Try spending some time with purposely bad
approaches, too fast, too high, lower than perfect, whatever. It teaches
you what you can pull off and when to simply go around. I do this at TTD
which has 5000+ feet of runway at 40'msl. so I don't feel it's too
dangerous. I'm finding that burning off speed is still the toughest task
after years of T-craft time and side-slipping doesn't do a whole lot.
kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | ProSeal alternative? |
Getting ready to do my fuel tanks soon and contemplating my encounter with
the dreaded black stuff. I remember reading somewhere that ACS had an
alternative version of ProSeal -------
Hi Randy
There is probably lots of info on this topic in the archives but here is
my input.
I am not an expert on this topic (yet) because I havn't checked my tanks
for leaks, however I will jump into the subject because I finished my tanks
this morning.
What a let down, it really wasn't half as bad as expected. It is a little
messy and my 10 year old grandaughter (who wanted to pull the clecos and
put the rivets in the holes) still has some proseal on her, but it will
wear off.
1) I had picked up a box (100) of disposable latex gloves at a garage sale,
used about fourty, peel off and throw away when contaminated.
2) Bought a package of 100 popsicle sticks at the Dollar store, used about
25 for spreading and filleting.
3) Used some little pieces of scrap aluminum for spreading and mixing.
4) Had some sturdy 20 cc size hypodermic needles, no needle just a plastic
outlet which I opened up to 1/8" - used about four for filleting, the
outlet was really a bit small so it was a hard push to expell the proseal.
Try a drugstore.
5) Used 10" X 10" pieces of cardboard for mixing trays.
6) I measured the proseal by volume, (100 parts to 7.6 parts) using plastic
cannisters for 35 mm film, these vary in size slightly, get about four
identical ones from your local film processor. My film cannister was 45mm
high and I cut another to 4mm high and used a tiny screw to screw it to a
piece of wood for a handle.
Fill the large cannister level with proseal, work out air bubbles. Fill
short container with black catalist and mix together.
Gave me enough mix to do four ribs or one back baffle, workable for 4 - 5
hours.
On the stiffners and ribs I coated each mating surfaces (ribs and skin)
with a thin coat 1/32 to 1/16 thick and ensured that all dimples and rivet
holes had proseal in and around them.
Small fillets were made the next day anywhere that proseal was not oozing
out of the seam.
Rear baffle requires a thicker coating because you can't get in later to
fillet.
In all I used about 2/3 of the fuel tank sealant that Van sells.
I think that a lot of the problems with "dreaded black stuff" is that it is
applied too thick, oozes out everywhere, and gets all over everything and
everybody. Of course my thinking will change if my tanks leak!
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
6A - Onward to flaps & ailerons.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
<< << Questions:
1. Has anyone used this? >>
I tried all 3 methods, I purchased the Pro Seal from Van's and did the
popcycle
stick application. ( Not fun )
I then purchased some empty Sim Kit Cartriges - Mixed the Pro Seal from Vans
and placed it into the Empty Cartridge ( Empty with a 6 inch tip $1.50 - 6 oz
) This way I mixed what I needed and did not have that much waste. The Air
driven gun is the way to go, made the whole job easier. ( I was lucky I
purchased it at a Auction for $10.00 )
The Pre Mixed worked well also, however there was more waste.
In any event, it was not the nightmare that every one thinks it is - 2 boxes
of rubber gloves and plenty of thinner and Plan your work, if your tired that
night do something else.
BSivori(at)AOL.COM
Closing Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
Guys
I am getting ready to close my RV6 Wings after my DAR did his thing and was a
happy camper. He has inspected alot of RV6' & 4's in the area and just loves
to see the pre built spar.
I installed one wire condit in each wing for Landing Lights & Tip Lights, the
questions are as follows.
1. Should I install a second conduit ( Black Flexable Stuff Van sells) in each
Wing.
2. Should I pull the wire in now or wait till later,
3. If the answere to #2 is yes what type of wire .
Thanks
BSivori(at)AOL.COM
CLosing Wings
N929RV ( Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
>> 1. Should I install a second conduit ( Black Flexible Stuff
Van sells) in each
>> Wing.
>> 2. Should I pull the wire in now or wait till later,
>> 3. If the answer to #2 is yes what type of wire .
I've got my 6A setup with all of the lights in the wings. This includes
a single unit fore/aft position with a strobe. Additionally each wing
has one landing or taxi light. I am planning on putting my marker
beacon in the right wing.
Decide what you will have in your wingtips and measure the OD of all
this stuff and see if there is enough room with a single conduit. I
have a piece of 3/4" thin wall PVC in each of my wings. If you buy one
of the inclusive lighting kits from Vans it will already have the wire.
Plus you should decide if you are going to put a strobe power supply on
each wingtip or not. That will drive the wire size/type that you will
need as well.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
McLaughlJR(at)aol.com wrote:
> B. Bad points:
> - Lots of waste - probably averaged 35%.
> - Your batch will set up in 4-5 hours, and you may not
> be ready to quit for the day.
> - If you don't have the high dollar gun (as I didn't)
> at about the 3-4 hour mark a normal caulk gun goes
> south on you as the sealant hardens (increased
> pressure blows out the front weld)
> - A little pricey: 3x$17 + 2xshipping (for me)
> for one tank.
I think that you might be going a little too slowly for the setup time
of the sealant. The stuff that I got from Aircraft Spruce was called
DynaSeal, and it had a two-hour setup time. This is indicated as
the last (I think) digit in the number designator on the product tube.
There are different setup times available (although maybe not from
Spruce) and different viscosities. There is, for instance, and type
that is thin enough to apply with a paint brush and sets up in half
an hour.
You should apply the sealant to one side of the joint, and then cleco
it in place. Repeat until you have everything cleco'd that you think
you can rivet in time. After the riveting stage, go back and use
a tongue depressor stick to smooth the stuff that squished out from
underneath the joint. Add some sealant, if necessary, to make sure
that you've got a smooth seam all the way around the piece, and
that each of the rivet shop heads is coated.
> 3. Don't know that, but the first time I ruined a cheap caulk gun, I thought
> it would have been nice to have the correct tool. (WHWHTB?) I did one tank
> with three tubes, was rather slow, and ended two sessions using some pretty
> thick (hard) stuff. I beleive I will plan for four sessions next time. I
> ruined three $2 guns, and was only able to finish, because my friend welded
> the front back on one of the caulk guns. If you could split the cost with at
> least one other builder, I beleive the good gun might be justified.
Riveting speed is important, because you want to be able to add more
sealant, if necessary, and smooth the bead around the edges, after
you've finished riveting. Just in case, it's safer to apply the
sealant to all of the joints first, and cleco them all in place,
before you start riveting.
I used about four tubes per tank, with about 15% waste. Are you
applying enough sealant? I don't think that I'm applying too much.
I don't have any more than was necessary to do as I described above.
--
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
Don't throw those clecoes away! I found that the proseal will set and
can be peeled easily off the tip of the clecoe after a few days. These
clecoes seem to have about the same failure by sticking rate as my
ungunked clecoes.
PatK - RV-6A
David A. Barnhart wrote:
>
> Here *is* something you can do to make the job less icky: Go buy a bunch of
> inexpensive clecos for the pro-sealing job. then instead of trying to
> clean the proseal off all your clecos when the job is done, just throw the
> cheap ones you used away.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
George McNutt wrote:
>
>
> Getting ready to do my fuel tanks soon and contemplating my encounter with
> the dreaded black stuff. I remember reading somewhere that ACS had an
> alternative version of ProSeal -------
>
> Hi Randy
>
> There is probably lots of info on this topic in the archives but here is
> my input.
> I am not an expert on this topic (yet) because I havn't checked my tanks
> for leaks, however I will jump into the subject because I finished my tanks
> this morning.
>
> What a let down, it really wasn't half as bad as expected. It is a little
> messy and my 10 year old grandaughter (who wanted to pull the clecos and
> put the rivets in the holes) still has some proseal on her, but it will
> wear off.
George,
Your experiences were very similar to mine; The tank sealer really isn't
that bad. I did spend about an hour after each session cleaning clecos,
however. By the way, builders shouldn't worry too much about getting the
sealer off the tips of the clecos; It will peel off easily after curing.
> In all I used about 2/3 of the fuel tank sealant that Van sells.
> I think that a lot of the problems with "dreaded black stuff" is that it is
> applied too thick, oozes out everywhere, and gets all over everything and
> everybody. Of course my thinking will change if my tanks leak!
Same here. There is still plenty left to glue on parts that fall off the
airplane later....
I used a technique for sealing the rivet shop heads that I have not seen
posted lately. You can get details for brushing the sealer onto the ribs
by checking my fuel tank construction log:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/tanks2.html
What I really dread is the canopy...
Sam Buchanan
sbuc(at)traveller.com
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
You may also want to call the Orndorff's...I have seen some of their
work...very, very, nice...I am going to order mine through them....
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)
Mounting Empennage
>
>would anyone on the list be able to direct me to a first class uphostery
>shop? I would like a professional job.
>
>thanx in advance.
>
> Randy,
> RV-6 time to start the finishing kit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
I would like to know the answer to this as well, as I was pondering this
exact same thing last night!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting Empennage
>
>To who ever's been there. I plan on running my elect elev trim wire to up
>front (no other electrical this area). Should I just drill holes in the
>bulk heads. Also bulkhead F604 is it acceptable to drill holes in this
>bulkhead for electrical and static tube?????
>Thanks for any help.
>
>RV6A joe/fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Emp. intersection fairing |
Would someone please provide me with the weight of an unmodified RV-4
emp intersection fairing including the 2 pieces that fit under the horz
stab? Thanks Ivan
an
unmodified RV-4 emp intersection fairing including the 2 pieces that fit
under
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Overhaul questions |
Mark;
Your local FBo may be able to help you with out charging you too much. Our
local subscribes to a service (Aircraft Technical Publishers) who puts out a
CD every two weeks. On it is all service Instructions and ADs. Our local
gives me his old CDs and I printed it out. It list the titles etc and if
you want, you can then print out the actual documents. What you will need
is the model and serial numbers of the engine, the mags, the carb etc on the
engine. Have no idea as to what he may charge you, but it is much more
simple and easier than a physical search of reams of documents.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
June 01, 1998 - June 08, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-eu