RV-Archive.digest.vol-ev
June 08, 1998 - June 16, 1998
>I now need to review all Service Bulletins and Service Instructions so I
can
>ensure I comply with all the most recent requirements. Lycoming tells me I
>have to go to an A&P and review all the documents to ensure nothing is
>overlooked.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net> |
Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto,
across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of
the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas,
Denver, Chicago.
Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to
jcocker(at)medhumor.com
Thanks.
John C-GDOC 150 hours
Newmarket Ontario
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
> >I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets,
> >particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight
> >fluctuation in my volt meter.
> Does the noise go away if you're operating
> battery only . . . alternator off?
Yes, I have isolated the sound to something being generated by the
alternator. That is, when I shut down the master or pull the fuse for
the alternator field, the noise quits. I have also noticed that the
noise becomes more prominent and rythmical at normal operating rpms and
of course it is louder as the volume on the radio is increased.
Next, I pulled the cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free
of the alternator. (I think it is a capacitor. It is a silver
cylindrical piece about 1 1/2" long x 3/4" in diameter. The piece is
marked 23939-1030 / Capto Corp / Tipp City OH / S15 5-1 / 9336) What is
this piece and what does it do? Everything else in the system works fine
even with this disconnected (except the noise).
Unfortunately, the wire to it broke off right on its base, so
re-connecting it might be marginal at best. I might have to replace it.
So again, what is it, and where can I get a new one? And of course,
could the absence of this piece be responsible for the alternator
electrical noise?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Re: Reserving N numbers |
. Simply a letter stating the numbers requested
>will suffice. You only need to send in $10, not the $5 and $10.
*That makes me wonder as I had sent the $5. and the $10. With the
registration Form. The FAA sent me the last letter with the Assigned box
check rather then the reserved box. Until now I just thought it was a
mistake. I sent my renew $10. in, But I did Not receive a notice as you
stated Gary. May be I wasted my second $10. N641DH maybe Assigned to me,
period.
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andy Rice <arice(at)ramaker.com> |
Subject: | MN Wing Sat Breakfast |
The Bloomer Airport, 20 miles north of Eau Claire, will be having a
gathering after the airshow...So if anyone want to come and have some
coffee, spend then night and camp, enjoy a bonfire, etc... show up.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Doug Weiler [SMTP:dougweil(at)pressenter.com]
> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 1998 1:52 PM
> To: Tony Dockendorf; Tom Irlbeck; Tom Berge; Terry Stern; Mitch
> Robbins; Mike Casmey; Loren D. Jones; Larry Daudt; Joe Larson; Jim
> Lenzmeier; Fred Hiatt; Ed Jungst; Cliff Carpenter; RV Internet Group
> Subject: RV-List: MN Wing Sat Breakfast
>
>
> Fellow Listers, et al:
>
> Just a note to advise everyone of the bi-monthly breakfast hangar
> session
> next Saturday, June 13. Place: Hideaway Cafe, St. Paul Airport,
> 0900.
>
> Big airshow at Eau Claire the same day (Blue Angels, Golden Knights,
> Gene
> Soucy, etc.) We are planning on flying on over right after breakfast.
> EAU
> airport closes at 1130. Maybe we can assemble a gaggle of RVs (plus
> one
> slow Citabria).
>
> Doug
>
>
> *******************************************
> Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "JOHN J. FRITSCH" <bscmjjf(at)netdex.com> |
Subject: | Re: The Big Loop |
If you like wine, stop in the Sonoma/Napa area. and spend a day making the rounds
at wineries/picnicing. STS is probably best airport...E-mail me at
bscmjjf(at)netdex.com for more details and possibly place to stay...JJF 1986 RV-4
N95JF
John Cocker wrote:
>
> Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto,
> across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of
> the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas,
> Denver, Chicago.
> Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to
> jcocker(at)medhumor.com
> Thanks.
> John C-GDOC 150 hours
> Newmarket Ontario
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: FAB Fitting Follies |
<< I've been working on the filtered air box (FAB), and am up against a bit of
a
problem/decision. With the new model of FAB (not the one shown in the
Orndorff video) the air filter sits between the fiberglass bottom of the FAB
and
the aluminum top plate that bolts to the carb. This constrains the angle at
which the entire FAB assembly can be tilted, since one must keep the air
filter
tightly squeezed.
I bent the front portion of the FAB's metal top cover up as much as I could
to
meet the opening in the cowl air scoop, but it really should be higher to get
the top of the FAB input aligned with the top of the opening in the cowl
scoop.
In addition, the inlet into the FAB is about 3/8" taller than the opening in
the
cowl scoop. >>
Tim,
I have an IO-320, so I had to use the O-360 bottom scoop to provide
clearance for the injection servo. I wonder if you used a scoop for the O-360,
would it sit lower and provide a better line-up into the inlet of the FAB?
After my first few flights, I noticed that my air filter was rotating inside
the airbox. How did I know this? One of the forward tabs that hold the filter
in place was shearing off a slice of rubber from the filter, and I noticed it
on a pre-flight inspection. I wound up installing a plate of .090 aluminum
that's bonded to the bottom of the FAB bowl, in order to shim the filter up
tighter against the top plate and stop it from rotating. So far it seems to be
working ok. Man, that filter catches a lot of bugs!
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Down for new baby daughter.
She must be powered by a rotary, 'cause she sure can whine!
Broken Arrow, Ok
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Re: The Big Loop |
You may want to stop for lunch in Sedona, Arizona...it is the closest thing
to landing on an aircraft carrier! Not to mention, the scenery is
beautiful..canyons, red rock, etc...
Paul Besing
>
>Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto,
>across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of
>the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas,
>Denver, Chicago.
>Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to
>jcocker(at)medhumor.com
>Thanks.
>John C-GDOC 150 hours
>Newmarket Ontario
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Strobe Power Supply |
.com>
What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other
than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this
cut down on noise?
>Plus you should decide if you are going to put a strobe power supply on
>each wingtip or not. That will drive the wire size/type that you will
>need as well.
>
>
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)
Mounting Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Reserving N numbers |
In a message dated 6/8/98 11:57:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, harje(at)proaxis.com
writes:
. Simply a letter stating the numbers requested
>will suffice. You only need to send in $10, not the $5 and $10.
*That makes me wonder as I had sent the $5. and the $10. With the
registration Form. The FAA sent me the last letter with the Assigned box
check rather then the reserved box. Until now I just thought it was a
mistake. I sent my renew $10. in, But I did Not receive a notice as you
stated Gary. May be I wasted my second $10. N641DH maybe Assigned to me,
period.
Have a great day!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
>>
Denny,
I did the exact same thing. The FAA mailed me a check about a month later for
$10.
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Moe:
Regarding your trimtab ribs, I made mine so that the rib flange is
flush with the skin. In other words, make it look like the tip and
root ribs. Mine worked great and looks good.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 Trim tab to go, and the Empenage is done!
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: The Big Loop |
John Cocker wrote:
>
> Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto,
> across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of
> the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas,
> Denver, Chicago.
> Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to
Hi John,
Good luck on the trip. Either on the way out or back, you should try and
stop here in the Sault and go to the Bush Plane Museum. I'll be out of
town next weekend, but if you stop on the way back I'd be glad to taxi
you around.
tailwinds, terry
Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A
38 Cartier St.
Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca
Ontario Canada
P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Weichert, Wolfgang" <Wolfgang.Weichert(at)nrc.ca> |
Subject: | Strobe Power Supply |
I don't know what the advantages are putting strobe PS in each wingtip.
Disadvantages are that you may need to get at them at some future time,
so make the tip removable or have an access door.
I put my PS on an access door below the baggage floor and ran the wires
only to the tips. If proper grounding rules are observed (i.e. grounding
the shield at the noise source only, the power supply, not at he strobe
light) then there will be no interference at all. In 300 hrs have never
had noise interference.
======================================
* Wolfgang Weichert System Support Unit
* Phone (613) 993-9589 Fax (613) 941-0175
* e-mail wolfgang.weichert(at)nrc.ca
======================================
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Mike,
If it's the f-688 (dwg # 32) piece your talking about, I had a similar question
and asked Van's. Ken sent back the reply that the f-688 is not required for
a slider. That piece of structure is reinforcement on the Tip Up canopy. I
can send Van's reply to you if you like.
Laird RV-6 Slider (working on the rudder pedels)
SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Sat, Jun 6, 1998 11:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: 6A-QB Skin
I've drilled & clecoed the most rear ward skin on the fuselage. Now I'm up
to the one right behind the baggage compartment. I have a slider going on
and I was wandering about the triangle looking piece on top do I trim
around
that or position directly over it? It is the piece right on top behing the
baggage
area. Thanks.
Mike Comeaux
RV6A-QB
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply- 1 or 2? |
<< What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other
than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this
cut down on noise?
>>
Good question! Putting TWO supplies in the wings will reduce your climb,
because your wallet will be heavier! Seriously, I sell the Aeroflash brand
nav/strobes/position setups for $420/pr. Most places sell the Whelens for much
more.
Let me know if I can help further....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Higgins, John J." <john_higgins(at)merck.com> |
Subject: | electrical noise |
>
"I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets,
particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight
fluctuation in my volt meter... I have isolated the sound to something being
generated by the alternator. That is, when I shut down the master or pull
the fuse for the alternator field, the noise quits. I have also noticed that
the noise becomes more prominent and rythmical at normal operating rpms and
of course it is louder as the volume on the radio is increased. I pulled the
cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free of the alternator. (I
think it is a capacitor. It is a silve
> cylindrical piece...What is this piece and what does it do?... So again,
> what is it, and where can I get a new one? And of course, could the
> absence of this piece be responsible for the alternator electrical noise?
>
> Andy"
>
> Andy - There is a nice article on alternator & voltage regulator whine at
> the avweb site - might help confirm you finding above as cause and it also
> mentions a replacement part :
>
> http://www.avweb.com/articles/altwhine.html
>
> John Higgins RV-8 Emp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: Plexi attach methods |
Personally I try to stick with the plans unless there's a good reason
to do otherwise. I'm not sure that having trouble tapping the holes
is a very good reason to switch to pop-rivets or riv-nuts.
Are you using cutting oil? I had the same problem until I said "duh!"
and got some cutting oil, and that made all the difference. Now that
you've broken a tap off you should have a feel for how much torque it
takes to break it off, so you should know when to back it off to clear
the chips. It's easy once you get the hang of it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to
jcocker(at)medhumor.com
Hi John
Will post this to the RV-list in hopes of increasing tourism and
subsequently the value of the Canadian dollar before I order fusalage!
Some nice smaller places to stop in southern British Columbia are:
1) Crawford Bay, a grass strip on the Cranbrook (YXC) 264 radial @ 35 N.M.
(N49 40 W116 49). No town, but there is a campground and rental cabins next
door, store 1/2 mile, golf course with restaurant across road and beach at
end of runway. Strip is shown as one way but I have seen Cessna 172 doing
sightseeing flights operating both ways. No fuel.
2) Nelson, N49 29 W117 18, a quaint town with adjacent airstrip located in
a scenic mountain valley. Paved, fuel, accomodations and easy walk to
everything.
3) Oliver, N49 10 W119 33, Southwinds restaurant, hotel with swimming pool
etc at south end of field. Paved, fuel etc. Town adjacent and easy walk.
4) Salmon Arm, N50 40 W119 37, nice airport and town, Flying club might
still have a courtesy car. Large Fly-in on fathers day weekend with several
RV's in attendance, why not get the prize for coming longest distance?
5) Chilliwack, N49 09 W121 56, in the fraser valley, all facilities,
airport coffee shop famous for pie. Adjacent to town, easy walk.
6) Langley, N49 06 W122 37, is a friendly small strip to stop at in the
Vancouver area, all facilities and no ATC problems, about 10 RV's based
here. Downside is that we are 30 miles from downtown Vancouver. Call me at
604-514-0747, I live a mile from airport and I will assist & update you on
the airports we use going to California.
George McNutt, Langley B.C.
6A - Flaps.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: FAB Fitting Follies |
> I've been working on the filtered air box (FAB), and am up against a bit of a
> problem/decision.
[snip!]
Tim:
You say you have completed the FAB box. I assume this means you've
done the aternate air door? If not, then shortening the FAB box isn't
all that "radical". That's what I did. Fortunately for me I saw this
coming so I installed the FAB box and cowl scoop at the same time and
adjusted them together for the best fit (I recommend this to other
builders!) I moved the scoop down, bent the end of the FAB box up,
shortened the FAB box quite a bit, and even so only had to add about
3/8" of "tunnel".
If you have already installed the door, then I'd probably go with #2.
If you are still worried about the discontinuity of the junction,
you might be able to cut back the inside of the inlet and re-do it so
it forms a better junction.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Peterson <pwpeterson(at)Ibm.Net> |
Subject: | N-Numbers and inspections |
Listers,
What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's
N-number. Can it be three letters and two numbers such as 'NABC99', or
do the numbers have to precede the letters, eg 'N1234AZ'. What is the
required number of characters/numbers? I've seen some - excluding the
'N' prefix - that are a single number followed by two letters.
Also, do I have to have my wings inspected before closing them?
Thanks.
Paul Peterson
finishing wings, waiting for fuse.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply- 1 or 2? |
Which model(s) do you have?
Do you have the 156-0049? Which is the nav/strobe/position?
thanks...
Paul
>
>
><< What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other
> than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this
> cut down on noise?
> >>
>
>Good question! Putting TWO supplies in the wings will reduce your climb,
>because your wallet will be heavier! Seriously, I sell the Aeroflash brand
>nav/strobes/position setups for $420/pr. Most places sell the Whelens for
much
>more.
>
>Let me know if I can help further....
>
>Check six!
>Mark
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
Subject: | Re: N-Numbers and inspections |
N
then
1..9
then
0..9 [repeated between zero and four times]
then
A..Z [repeated between zero and two times]
Total length (including 'N') not exceeding 6. I don't know the minimum
length, except that (almost) all the shortest legal id's are already taken
:-)
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Peterson <pwpeterson(at)Ibm.Net>
>What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's
>N-number. Can it be three letters and two numbers such as 'NABC99', or
>do the numbers have to precede the letters, eg 'N1234AZ'. What is the
>required number of characters/numbers? I've seen some - excluding the
>'N' prefix - that are a single number followed by two letters.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
<3.0.1.16.19980603231422.464f085a(at)dtc.net>
>
>> >I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets,
>> >particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight
>> >fluctuation in my volt meter.
>
>> Does the noise go away if you're operating
>> battery only . . . alternator off?
>
>Yes, I have isolated the sound to something being generated by the
>alternator. That is, when I shut down the master or pull the fuse for
>the alternator field, the noise quits. I have also noticed that the
>noise becomes more prominent and rythmical at normal operating rpms and
>of course it is louder as the volume on the radio is increased.
Ahhaa! Good input . . .
>Next, I pulled the cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free
>of the alternator. (I think it is a capacitor. It is a silver
>cylindrical piece about 1 1/2" long x 3/4" in diameter. The piece is
>marked 23939-1030 / Capto Corp / Tipp City OH / S15 5-1 / 9336) What is
>this piece and what does it do? Everything else in the system works fine
>even with this disconnected (except the noise).
This has to be an alternator noise filter. . . Got off the phone
with my favorite filter engineer at Captor not ten minutes ago!
We COULD do a lot of detective work and then try to find a replacment
filter. Since we're talking about an amateur-built airplane,
you can put anything on there you'd like to give it a try.
You can call Newark Electronics at 800-4-NEWARK and order
a 47F1970 Capacitor. This is about 1.4" diameter and 2.3" long.
Make connections to it by means of two 10-32 screws on one end.
Attach to rear of alternator using Adel clamp (MS21919DG20)
and wire [+] lead to the alternator b-lead terminal and
[-] lead to the alternator case. Use 20AWG jumpers for these
connnectonns and try to keep them to 4" or less in lenght.
>Unfortunately, the wire to it broke off right on its base, so
>re-connecting it might be marginal at best. I might have to replace it.
>So again, what is it, and where can I get a new one? And of course,
>could the absence of this piece be responsible for the alternator
>electrical noise?
>
when noise goes up and down with the volume control . . .
you betcha . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Hello Carey,
Just tell me what you want. I need to get the order out by
Tuesday, if possible. I am asking everyone to send a check of
any type as soon as convenient for the costs of the seats. I
would rather wait on the shipping and figure that out one time,
including the ups to specific homes. You can call if you like.
I work odd shift hours and will be at work tonight 6 pm till 6
am. You can call anytime if you need to.
Michael C. Lott
1238 Caesar road
Carriere, Ms. 39426
Home phone 601-798-8896
work 228-688-3381
Talk to you later. Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | THEHENS(at)webtv.net (Gary Hendrickson) |
to whom it may concern,
My name is Gary Hendrickson and i'm currently building an rv-6. I
understand you have a e-mail list. Would you please put my address on
this for usefull info.
thehens(at)webtv.net.
Gary Hendrickson.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
Subject: | Re: N-Numbers and inspections |
>
>Listers,
>
>What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's
>N-number. Can it be three letters and two numbers such as 'NABC99', or
>do the numbers have to precede the letters, eg 'N1234AZ'. What is the
>required number of characters/numbers? I've seen some - excluding the
>'N' prefix - that are a single number followed by two letters.
I called today and found out you can't use "I" or "O" because of the
confusion with their numerical likenesses.
Shelby in Nashville.
"N95EB" reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Roger Bocox" <rbocox(at)ryko.com> |
Subject: | Status of Buick V-8 215 CID project |
A number of you are interested in how the Buick project is going. This is for
Ted in paticular.
My project is down to painting, wheel pant-leg, and cowl work. It is taking quite
a bit of work to fit all of the stuff under the cowl with the Buick. The
worst part was making the engine mount. This alone, took me about 4 months to
get right. I did not paint the mount for about a year so I could get all of the
mounting tabs on. I painted the mount white epoxy. My engine is actually
an Oldsmobile turbo model. I had a speed shop rework the engine going for reliability,
not HP. I saved a great deal of cost by making a deal with the owner.
We came to an agreement in that I did not need the engine back for a year
or so, so he agreed to work on it only when their work was slow. The engine was
CC'd, and balanced. Some port work was done, but not much. He installed the
Crower cam you suggested, the Edelbrock manifold also. The shop owner suggested
that I do not turn the intake manifold around, but mill it 6 degrees the
other direction to get the slope of the carb head right. I have access to complete
m
IGNITION
I have installed 2 MSD-6 electronic modules, connected to mallory coils and a mallory
dual point distributor. The points were separated for each MSD unit, and
the timing had to be adjusted on the points to get them the same. The distributor
is not 180 degrees apart on the points. It was not difficult to do.
I put a switch on the dash which selects which ignition system to use. The backup
system operates off of a separate small gell cell battery. This battery
is linked into the charging system and I have a switch on my voltmeter so I can
check its voltage.
MIXTURE
I also installed a MSD lean- rich systen with the oxygen sensor in the exhaust.
This is pretty neat! I am using a 350 CFM Holley Carb with the mixture control
from the guy( I can't remember his name) in Arizona. The mixture system works
good, but the mixture lever appears to be a little sensitive. I made a longer
lever for the mixture control, and this helps with the sensitivity. The
biggest problem I still have is what to do about the air filter. With the mixture
lever located where it is, It is almost impossible to fit an air cleaner/filter
on top of the carbureter. I made up a custom epoxy-glass collector box
for the top of the carb. I also built up a remote filter enclosure to locate
somewhere, connecting the two boxes and the front of the cowl with SCAT tubing.
This will work OK, but I am having trouble finding a location for the filter
box. Little issues come up like how to change the filter element without
dissassembling the entire cowl, etc. Any Ideas What to do?
VACUUM SYSTEM
I made up a canister by welding 6061T6 aluminum 3" dia by 10" long. I connected
this to the intake manifold through a checkvalve. Preliminary running of the
engine shows I can get enough vacuum to run the DG and the Horizon. Since I
have not flown the plane, I will no more as time progresses.
COOLING SYSTEM
I started off using the air conditioner evaporators. I ended up not liking them.
If I could buy good units with fittings already on them, I would have bought
them in a flash. I ended up using aftermarket aluminum oil coolers. The units
are about 5" by 11" by 1'' thick. I installed 4 of them. 2 on each cheek.
The plumbing is a little excessive, since I have so many fittings. I milled
and then welded up custom distribution manifolds to make the connections, then
connected them together with aircraft hoses and AN fittings. I put an aftermarket
header tank in and installed a bleeder hose from the top of the manifold
system to the top of the header tank. I still need to install 2 pressure
gauges in the water system. my calculations show that I have about 195 square
inches of radiator area, and a cooling system volume of 2.35 gallons. I have
ran the engine extensively-- 2-3 hours in my garage without a prop. I place box
fans in front of the radiators only. I have a 180 degree thermostat installed.
I
OIL COOLER
I installed a sandwich adapter between the block and the oil filter. I ran AN
hoses/fittings to a small oil cooler 3" by 9" approx.
The oil cooler is installed in front of the radiators on the pilot side. Does
not appear to cut down air flow. I don't remember exactly what the oil temperatures
were during running, but they were quite normal.
EXHAUST SYSTEM
I welded up my own system. I did not run the pipe to the back side of the head.
I made them more like headers. Presently, they go straight down and out of
the cowl. Me and another guy are going to redesign them so that they go out
at the back end of the cowl. After we are done, I am going to send them to a
place in Wichita, KS and have them silver ceramicoated. They will do it for about
$200.00. Much cheaper than stainless exhausts. Someone needs to sell exhaust
systems also. I also indexed the spark plugs. I got tons of washers from
the engine rebuilder, so why not?
STARTER and ALTERNATOR
I am using a TILTON starter and an aftermarket single wire alternator. These seem
to be working fine so far.
PROPELLER
I bought a 68" dia. WARP drive unit. They suggested that I start at 16 degrees
pitch. When I put the prop on, I noticed that the spinner front plate was designed
for a real thick wood prop. This lead to discussion with a few A & Ps in
our EAA chapter, and we cam up with a milled adapter. This looks like a prop
extension. I turned it on a 12" lathe out of 6061T6. The unit started out
as a 3" thick 6-1/2" dia chunck of metal. The prop end was made 3/8" thick, and
the front plate end was made 1/4" thick. The unit ended up being 2.30" long
to put the front plate in the proper place. All excess material was removed
from the insided of the hub. locating bosses were milled in to center the adapter
on the prop (about a 1") hole, and a larger one was milled in to fit Van's
front plate. I made these a press fit so that they would align exactly. When
finished, the unit ended up weighing 1lb-13 oz, Now, AN6H-32A bolts are only
what is needed to put the prop on, and I put blind nut plates on the back
side of
I figure that I will have about $5700 firewall forward when I am done. Not too
bad. I also figure that the auto conversion added about 2 additional years to
the project. Everything looks good and I am sure it will be worth the effort.
Due to the difficulty in making all of your own parts, I would not do this exact
conversion again. I would Jess Meyer's at Belted Air Power
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
Subject: | Service Bulletins and Instructions |
Listers,
I just ordered a complete set of Service Bulletins and Service Instructions
from
Lycoming. It cost $125.00 plus $15.00 shipping. They also have it on CD Rom for
$315.00.
The women that takes your order is named Gladys. She'll tell you that the CD
Rom is a steal at that price.
Due to sickness in the family, I may not get a chance to get my engine back
together very soon so I thought I'd go whole hog and do the engine overhaul to
the
best of my ability ( which ain't much ) and I guess that means not missing any
service bulletins. Now all I have to do is learn how to read.
Thought I'd pass along this information since there was a thread on it.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: rv email list |
Gary Hendrickson wrote:
>
> to whom it may concern,
>
> My name is Gary Hendrickson and i'm currently building an rv-6. I
> understand you have a e-mail list. Would you please put my address on
>
> this for usefull info.
>
> thehens(at)webtv.net.
> Gary Hendrickson.
>
Gary,
Checkout the address in the box and follow the instructions...
Welcome aboard!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com> |
Subject: | Re: N-Numbers and inspections |
> What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's
> N-number.
Rules on registration numbers are described
fully in FAR 47.15. Here are the guts of it:
(b) A U.S. identification number may not exceed five symbols in addition to
the prefix letter "N". These symbols may be all numbers (N10000), one to four
numbers and one suffix letter (N 1000A), or one to three numbers and two
suffix letters (N 100AB). The letters "I" and "O" may not be used. The first
zero in a number must always be preceded by at least one of the numbers 1
through 9.
> Also, do I have to have my wings inspected before closing them?
No. The FAA only wants to inspect it once, when its done. For insurance
purposes the 3 EAA tech counselor visits can be any time. Wing closing is
a good time for one of them however.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
At one time(years ago) I owned a C-120. This aircraft is no longer flying,
and the Numbers used for this airplane do not appear in the registry. I was
toying with the idea of being able to reserve "these" numbers for my RV-6A,
since they represent my "first" airplane. Is this a possibility?
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | THEHENS(at)webtv.net (Gary Hendrickson) |
Subject: | what have i done. |
thanks for all the responses folks. glad to see there are so many
helpful people.
happy building ( and flying some day!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Listers
I've been putting off making the fiberglass fairing strip that goes
in front of the -4 canopy, but the time has come.
I made my own vertical/horizontal intersection fairing using Gil
Alexander's instructions. the fairing turned out great.
I was hoping someone out there had a good method of making the canopy
fairing and would share that with me. It makes it a lot easier when
you have some idea of what you are doing.
thanks
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: FAB Fitting Follies |
From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Listers,
>
>I've been working on the filtered air box (FAB), and am up against a
>bit of a
>problem/decision. With the new model of FAB (not the one shown in the
>
>Orndorff video)
>Thanks,
>
>Tim
Tim,
I just wanted to mention (to prevent any confusion) that their isn't an
old style and a new style FAB kit. Their is an O-320 and an O-360 kit.
It sounds like you are working with the O-360 FAB and the video probably
shows the installation of the O-320 FAB.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
Subject: | Re: The Big Loop |
>
>Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to
>jcocker(at)medhumor.com
>
>Hi John
This is the exact trip that I hope to make, be sure to take lots of notes.
Tom martin
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz) |
Subject: | Re: Tach problem |
In the C-130 the "FIRE" lights would flicker when transmitting on HF.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
Subject: | Re: Plexi attach methods |
Probably the best "cutting oil" for aluminium and lead, is mineral
turpentine or kerosene. Dont know theory behind this,but was taught that
when doing my trade and it works well. Also very good with circle cutter
(fly cutter) on thick aluminium such as the instrument panel. It prevents
the cutter from gauling and gives a very clean edge. Brian
> Are you using cutting oil? I had the same problem until I said "duh!"
> and got some cutting oil, and that made all the difference. Now that
> you've broken a tap off you should have a feel for how much torque it
> takes to break it off, so you should know when to back it off to clear
> the chips. It's easy once you get the hang of it.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> |
Subject: | Columbus, MS RVers |
I'm preparing for a move to Columbus, Mississippi and was wondering if
there are any fellow RVators there. If so please
e-mail me direct, I'm hoping to find some active flying and building.
Thanks,
Marcus
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Does anyone have the schedule for the Boone Flyin this month?
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Could anyone post the schedule for the Boone Flyin this month?
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | McLaughlJR(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
<>
Rob - Thanks for the tips. I admittedly went too slow on riveting up my one
tank. And the later the nights wore on, the slower I got. Did you have a
helper, or do it yourself? Also, since it has been a little while, I'm not
sure but that I may have used four tubes instead of the stated three.
Joel McLaughlin
-6 Wings
N.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO" <lewisth(at)af.pentagon.mil> |
Subject: | FAB Fitting Follies |
Listers,
Just to complete the story, I thought I'd pass along what Van's said. Tom
wrote, "I kind of go with solution Number 2 as well... the discontinuity
will be insignificant, it is only a labor matter..."
________________________________________________________________________________
same problem: the FAB 360 airbox when constructed per the plans doesn't
line up with the cowl air scoop. A common solution is to shorten the FAB
360 by another inch or two, then construct a tunnel from the cowl scoop to
the FAB. Since I'd already riveted the FAB 360 together per the plans I
just moved the cowl air scoop down and back, and sealed the gap with the
provided rubber seal.
If anybody from Van's is monitoring the list, please take note. This area
looks like a good candidate for either a design change or plans
modification. One occurrence may be "builder error." Multiple occurrences
of the problem indicate otherwise.
Thanks for all the posts and advice!
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
From: | "William H. Watson" <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net> |
I bought the Aeroflash units from Cleaveland Tools. One supply in each
wing tip. You will need a line for the strobe and a line for the
position lights.
The big advantage is the price - $420. However, you must make the wing
tip removable, at some small cost for the nutplates, dimple die,
countersink, etc.
I fired up the stobes, using a car battery. Really bright and way cool.
Made me want to keep working.....
Bill Watson, RV6A, l. wing skinning almost done
>
>What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other
>than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this
>cut down on noise?
>
>
>>Plus you should decide if you are going to put a strobe power supply on
>>each wingtip or not. That will drive the wire size/type that you will
>>need as well.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply |
I too used the Aeroflash units and attached them to the outboard wing rib
using nutplates (reinforced rib with angle).
I did not make the tip removable but cut an access plate in the tip on the
underside. I can get to the units if ever need be.
120 hours later they work great.....
>
>I bought the Aeroflash units from Cleaveland Tools. One supply in each
>wing tip. You will need a line for the strobe and a line for the
>position lights.
>
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "m.hanson" <paintbox(at)rconnect.com> |
Subject: | electric vs manual |
I am interested in hearing some thoughts both pro and con on manual vs
electric aileron trim, flaps and elevator trim. My emmpenage kit was
ordered with electric trim, but no work on that area yet so it's still an
option. My main concern with the electric option is reliability of the
systems. Any thoughts from listers who've had experience with both types
would be welcome. THANKYOU
Marc Hanson
paintbox(at)rconnect.com
6A- HS riveting
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Roger Bocox" <rbocox(at)ryko.com> |
Ted,
The 215 CID engine from GM was sold in 1965 to Rover. The engines can
be used, and are basically the same. The Belted Air Power drive will
bolt up to it. Most parts are still available for the engine. You have
to do some looking for engines, though. Every once in a while, one is
for sale in Sport Aviation. You can't get some parts though. I could
not find headers. Contact Jess Meyers at BAP for more info. He knows
everything about the engine. You will need the shop manual for the
engine before you go too far. There is also a very good book, about
$30.00, called "Tuning the Rover V-8 Engine". Go to any good book
store, and have them search their database for the book.
Roger Bocox (rbocox(at)ryko.com)
RV-6A N872RF
in Des Moines area
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
Subject: | Re: electrical noise |
<3.0.1.16.19980603231422.464f085a(at)dtc.net> <3.0.1.16.19980608140849.2367248a(at)dtc.net>
> >Next, I pulled the cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free
> >of the alternator.
Thanks Robert,
I was in the shop last night and I think I was able to get a reasonable
re-connection to the stub sticking out of the capacitor body. I'll
reinstall it in a week or two when I do my annual. If it works, great!
If not, I'll call Newark and order the part you suggested.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
Subject: | Re: ProSeal alternative? |
McLaughlJR(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Rob - Thanks for the tips. I admittedly went too slow on riveting up my one
> tank. And the later the nights wore on, the slower I got. Did you have a
> helper, or do it yourself? Also, since it has been a little while, I'm not
> sure but that I may have used four tubes instead of the stated three.
I had a helper for back-riveting the stiffener angles on the tank
bottoms, and for riveting the four interior ribs. I did the end
ribs (and all the stuff that gets attached to them) myself.
Set-up makes all the difference. I had everything laid out and
the surface prepared, before mixing the sealant. For the stiffener
angles, I taped the rivets to the skin, applied sealant to the
skin, and squished the angle down on top of it - pressing it in
hard.
For the ribs, I applied a bead to the rib contact surface and
slid it down into the tank. It was easier to put it almost all the
way down into the tank and then rotate it perpendicular to the skin
(but not yet touching) and then slide it the rest of the way down.
I inserted four ribs, and then started riveting. By the time the
riveting was done, the sealant was harder, but not yet set up.
I then applied some to the shop heads.
--
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Cornyn Drug Store" <acornyn(at)telusplanet.net> |
I am new to the list so I hope that I am not asking an old question. You
can get an STC (not that we need one) to run mogas in O series Lycomings
but not IO or TIO motors. If you run mogas in IO or TIO Lycomings, what
happens?
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Strobe Power Supply- location |
<< I bought the Aeroflash units from Cleaveland Tools. One supply in each
wing tip. You will need a line for the strobe and a line for the
position lights.
The big advantage is the price - $420. However, you must make the wing
tip removable, at some small cost for the nutplates, dimple die,
countersink, etc.
>>
This is true for some applications (RMD landing light users for one).
Let's look at it another way- most folks using the 3-in-1 light assy's will be
set up for night ops, and will have landing lites, right? I have recommended
that builders mount the power supplies to the fwd side of the spar, behind the
landing lite assy. Access to the power supply is thru the landing lite lens
hole. The wingtip can be pop rivetted on in this case, making the tedious to
install nutplate/tiny screw attach un-necessary.
I try to keep in mind while building: I'll be the one to fix anything that
goes wrong, so why not make servicing this a/c as easy as possible? Another
aspect of the K.I.S.S. principle...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick Fogerson <rfogerson(at)baf.com> |
Subject: | electric vs manual |
I initially installed the manual but found it to be rather awkward,
particularly with a passenger. I really like the electric. No problems to
date. The switch is on the stick grip and very handy.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 7:54 AM
Subject: RV-List: electric vs manual
I am interested in hearing some thoughts both pro and con on manual vs
electric aileron trim, flaps and elevator trim. My emmpenage kit was
ordered with electric trim, but no work on that area yet so it's still an
option. My main concern with the electric option is reliability of the
systems. Any thoughts from listers who've had experience with both types
would be welcome. THANKYOU
Marc Hanson
paintbox(at)rconnect.com
6A- HS riveting
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: mogas (in injected motors) |
<< If you run mogas in IO or TIO Lycomings, what
happens? >>
I can't say what will happen in a turbo motor (there could be an octane
deficiency), but I run mogas in my Rocket (IO-540) all the time. No problems
in the air, but the injector sure doesn't like that mogas while on the ground-
lots of vapor lock. I keep 100LL in the left tank for ground ops and climb.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Please Read! - List Downtime... |
Listers,
After many months of waiting, I will be at long last upgrading my Internet
connectivity! Depending on the condition of my line, I could be getting
as high as a 1.1Mb dedicated connection. At the same time, I will be moving
all of the Matronics web pages, the RV and Zenith List web pages, and the
Matronics FTP server over to a new and much faster server. All of the current
hostnames will remain the same; however, the IP subnet will change and a
DNS update will occur. After a DNS update, about 80% of the world will
be able to communicate right away, with the remaining 20% figuring it out
over a period of a week or so.
So, what does this all really mean? Starting tomorrow, Wednesday June 10
well it goes, List messages may or may not be processed, and some messages
will likely be lost. I would strongly recommend _not_ posting any messages
and stable, I will post a messages to the Lists indicating that things
are back online and DNS is at the 80% level. This will likely be late
Wednesday or probably Thursday.
Note that access to the Matronics Web and FTP sites will also be affected and
may be unavailable until Thursday as well.
Thank you for your patience during this period of transition. I'm
confident that the new service will be noticable improvment in performance
and reliability and since all of the computer systems providing the
services will now be locally resident, administration should be far
easier too!
Look for an update soon!
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Subject: | Terrible accident |
I ran across this on the NTSB website and thought I would pass it on.
We probably all have jumped an aircraft before so this may give some
food for thought for the group.
NTSB Identification: SEA98LA085
Accident occurred JUN-03-98 at EVERETT, WA
Aircraft: Piper PA-30, registration: N98NT
Injuries: 1 Fatal.
On June 3, 1998, approximately 1735 Pacific daylight time, a Piper
PA-30, N98NT, registered to and being operated by a commercial pilot,
sustained minor damage when it collided with a parked/unoccupied Cessna
150G (N3290J) on the ramp at the Snohomish County (Paine) Field,
Everett, Washington. The pilot of the PA-30, who was outside his
aircraft at the time of the accident was fatally injured. Visual
meteorological conditions existed and no flight plan had been filed. The
flight, which was to have been operated under 14CFR91, was believed to
have been intended as a personal flight. A pilot rated bystander, who
had arrived to preflight his aircraft, noticed the Piper entangled with
the Cessna, and the pilot lying on the ground. He rendered assistance to
the pilot, who was conscious at the time. After instructions from the
injured pilot, another bystander entered the PA-30 and shut down the
running engine (the opposing engine had stopped operating upon impact
with the Cessna). The pilot bystander radioed the Paine Field tower and
requested emergency assistance. A helicopter airlifted the injured
pilot, who had lost his left leg and sustained shoulder and opposite
knee injuries, to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, where he
subsequently expired early on the morning of June 4. Personnel employed
at Paine Field reported that the pilot kept his aircraft in a local
hangar and that the doors to the hangar were found closed with the
aircraft collision located nearby. A single chock (entangled with a set
of jumper cables), which had been reportedly positioned around the nose
wheel, was observed lying on the ground a short distance from the PA-30.
On-site examination by an inspector from the Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) indicated that the PA-30 pilot had used the jumper
cables to start the aircraft's engine(s) after removing the aircraft
from the hangar and closing the hangar doors. With both engines
operating, the pilot exited the aircraft to remove the nose-wheel chock,
during which the aircraft began to roll and turn right. The aircraft
rolled into the parked Cessna during which the pilot, who was underneath
the aircraft, was thrown into one of the propellers. The pilot
subsequently crawled out from under the aircraft and approximately 20
feet back outboard and behind the right wing where he was found.
Although no flight plan had been filed, the FAA inspector found a fuel
slip within the aircraft indicating that the aircraft had taken on a
substantial fuel load at 1507 hours earlier on the day of the accident.
The accident site is not within visual line of site of the Paine Field
tower.
*************************************************
* Gary Fesenbek
*
* Meridium Inc.
*
* (540) 344-9205 x112
*
* gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
*
* http://www.meridium.com
*
*************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
> 1. Should I install a second conduit ( Black Flexable Stuff Van sells) in
each
> Wing.
> 2. Should I pull the wire in now or wait till later,
> 3. If the answere to #2 is yes what type of wire .
I decided to install the lights later and was easily able to pull wire thru
the flex conduit even with the tips pop riveted on. The cut outs for the
wing tip kit leaves a large hole.
I will add that to do it over I would install the battery box perhaps a
1/2" further aft to enable easier conduit runs under the box and up the
firewall. I didn't like how others drilled many holes thru the forward
bulkheads along the side of the fuselage so ran all of my circuits and fuel
system down the center under the battery box. kevin 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rover Engines |
>
>Ted,
> The 215 CID engine from GM was sold in 1965 to Rover. The engines can
>be used, and are basically the same. The Belted Air Power drive will
>bolt up to it.----
In the past I had some arms length experiance with the GM-215 cu. in./ Rover
3500 cc. At that time we pulled in execss of 225 HP. chassis dyno test
rated. This from stock block, stock crankshaft, normal asperation.
The Lotus espirit(sp?) this engine was put into was driven hard daily in
city traffic and was extreemly fast in the city and on the open road. this
engine stood up very well and lived a very long life.
During that time there was talk of using an Olds crank from some other cu.
in. engine to bring the displacement up to the area of 300 cu. in.. At the
time we avoided this choice due to costs,parts, machining etc.. Also there
was talk of Australian factory built engines in the 300/350 cu. in. range.
These production engines were said to be based on the same Rover 3500 block,
That is to say a bolt in/on swap.
I am inclined to think the bigger/longer bore/stroke in the above "rumored"
Aussie Power plant might be better suited to aircraft application.
Mabe some of our down under RV'ers could advise as to the validity to the
above rumors, the availability of such engines and parts, and if any are
being, or ever have been used in aircraft.
Does Jess Meyers at BAP have any info. on this?.
This thread got my motor running!.
jim RV6-eh tanks next
B.C.canada
* When dreams come true the sky's the limit *
jjewell(at)okanagan.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Inlet vs outlet air |
Does anyone have a formula or even rule of thumb for the the area of the
outlet air as related to the inlet air of the cowling. I found a rather
interesting article in one of the the Experimenter magazine on this subject.
However I believe have forgotten what I understood on the exposure I had
some of the formula applications in algebra. It has been nearly 50 years you
know.
This article worked a formula at a 70 mph climb on 100 degree day. Their
answer came out that the outlet needed to be about 1.22 x larger then the
inlet air of the cowling for the required cooling of an engine. This was
mostly they noted as the expansion due to the heat that was extract from the
engine. It went on to say that for high performance aircraft this would be
somewhat less. It was suggested that it should be figured on case by case
conditions.
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ralph Koger <kogrh(at)willinet.net> |
>
>Could anyone post the schedule for the Boone Flyin this month?
>
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal
>dougr(at)petroblend.com
>www.petroblend.com/dougr
>The Boone, Ia fly-in is schedule for June 20th and all RVer"s are invited.
I will give notice about it in the coming days.
Ralph Koger
515 432-5714
Boone, Ia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Rover Engines |
jjewell(at)okanagan.net wrote:
> Also there
> was talk of Australian factory built engines in the 300/350 cu. in. range.
> These production engines were said to be based on the same Rover 3500
> block,
> That is to say a bolt in/on swap.
Sounds ideal.
I haven't heard of anything. Incidentally, the 3500 engine was also
used in the Leyland P76 here (perhaps that was also available in the
UK or Aus). And I think also the Landrover and Range Rover series of
vehicles?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Excuse me for using the list, again. Just want to let everyone
who ordered a seat know the order has gone out and I am waiting
for confirmation from Jon's group. Thanks. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Bristol" <bbristol(at)intranet.ca> |
Hi Guys,
Today the final inspection was given my RV6A and it should be in the
air shortly. It took 3 years and over 3500 hours to complete. This
includes my own interior as well the exterior paint. It is powered by an
0320 H2AD engine which required a bit of engineering but was worth it.
Full panel with 1 King Com, Transp, Intercom, encoder, Ed Sterba wood
prop, brought the empty weight up to 1060 pounds. A little heavy but
comfortable. I will advise of first flight. bbristol(at)intranet.ca
inspection
was given my RV6A and it should be in the air shortly. It took 3 years
and over
3500 hours to complete. This includes my own interior as well the
exterior
paint. It is powered by an 0320 H2AD engine which required a bit of
engineering
but was worth it. Full panel with 1 King Com, Transp, Intercom, encoder,
Ed
Sterba wood prop, brought the empty weight up to 1060 pounds. A little
heavy but
comfortable. I will advise of first flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Rudder Cable Fairing |
Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of
using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
Mounting Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
>Does anyone have a formula or even rule of thumb for the the area of the
>outlet air as related to the inlet air of the cowling. I found a rather
>interesting article in one of the the Experimenter magazine on this subject.
>However I believe have forgotten what I understood on the exposure I had
>some of the formula applications in algebra. It has been nearly 50 years you
>know.
>This article worked a formula at a 70 mph climb on 100 degree day. Their
>answer came out that the outlet needed to be about 1.22 x larger then the
>inlet air of the cowling for the required cooling of an engine. This was
>mostly they noted as the expansion due to the heat that was extract from the
>engine. It went on to say that for high performance aircraft this would be
>somewhat less. It was suggested that it should be figured on case by case
>conditions.
>Denny - RV-6 finishing
As a matter of first hand experience with a water cooled auto engine
conversion which ran hot on all but the coolest days, I fought that battle
and won. The correct answer was not 1.22 x inlet, but rather closer to 3 x
the inlet. After *MUCH* frustration and several mods to the existing
inlets and outlets with larger and larger inlets and adjustable cowl flaps,
an electric fan to help cool the radiator, etc. I went back to square one.
I read that Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager had problems cooling the liquid
cooled engine on the Voyager, and that they had run numerous tests aided by
the HIGH DOLLAR engineers from Continental, etc. They finally decided to
measure the cooling on Dick's old Toyota since it *NEVER* ran hot in the
worst Mojave heat. They discovered that the key is a 60 mph pressure
differential across the radiator. They rigged up an old helicopter ASI
with the pitot port in front of the radiator and the static port behind the
radiator. At even modest speeds they found that the radiator had the 60
mph differential, and it cooled well even when they blocked off most all
the radiator. They then went back Voyager and "instrumented" it with the
heli ASI and proceeded to do what ever was needed to get 60 MPH on the ASI.
Instantly the temps came into line and they flew it just like that all the
way around the world.
The basic problem was that the inlet was TOO BIG and the outlet was TOO
SMALL. The air would "pile up" in the inlet, and as the air approached the
inlet it would move out of the way because the inlet was "full".
(please no flames, I know this is not exactly how Hoerner, etal would
explain it, but you get the general idea.)
By opening up the exit area they created a place for the air to go, and the
air flowed through the radiator in sufficient volume to cool the Voyager's
aft engine for the flight.
I applied the same method, and found that I didn't have 60 mph indication
on my cooling ASI. I then examined the Long EZ cooling system and measured
the inlet and outlet areas. I closed down *MY* inlet to approximate the
LongEZ. Then I oped up the exhaust to get 60 mph on the ASI. NO MORE
COOLING PROBLEMS!
Did I mention that the cruise and top speed rose dramatically? Seems that
all that extra inlet area was tripping the flow over a large setion of the
fuselage and causing lots of drag.
In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rover Engines |
>Also there was talk of Australian factory built engines in the 300/350 >cu.
in. range. These production engines were said to be based on >the same
Rover 3500 block, That is to say a bolt in/on swap.
>I am inclined to think the bigger/longer bore/stroke in the above
>"rumored" Aussie Power plant might be better suited to aircraft
>application.
>
>This thread got my motor running!.
>
>jim RV6-eh tanks next
>B.C.canada
The book "Tuning Rover V8 Engines" by David Hardcastle (on page 23) relates
the Leyland P76 crankshaft is the largest crank ever used in the Buick/Rover
engine. It had a 3.5" stroke and larger main journals at 2.5". It was used
on the Leyland 73'-75' Terrier light trucks and the P76 Saloon cars. This
is a great book.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rover Engines |
Buick 300 crank works great too. Search the Web for info on this swap.
Search for: buick 215 rover
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: electric vs manual |
From: | gretz-aero(at)Juno.com (Warren Gretz) |
I make and provide to builders an alternative electric elevator trim kit.
It takes the best parts of both the electric elevator like van supplies,
and the best parts of the manual elevator and makes a wonderful hybrid
system. I also manufacture a heated pitot tube mount for RV's and sell
two different "certified" heated pitot tubes. If you would like flyers on
my products please e-mail me with you postal address and I will send you
the flyers. I will also answer any questions you may have about my
systems on e-mail.
Warren Gretz, (Gretz Aero)
3664 East Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
(303) 770-3811
gretz-aero(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>I am interested in hearing some thoughts both pro and con on manual vs
>electric aileron trim, flaps and elevator trim. My emmpenage kit was
>ordered with electric trim, but no work on that area yet so it's still
>an
>option. My main concern with the electric option is reliability of
>the
>systems. Any thoughts from listers who've had experience with both
>types
>would be welcome. THANKYOU
>
>Marc Hanson
>paintbox(at)rconnect.com
>6A- HS riveting
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Matronics Back Online! |
Listers,
The Internet upgrade was a complete success! The connection wasn't up in
time for a DNS update on Wednesday, and so DNS was updated early this morning
(Thursday) and it appears that most servers around the Internet have been
successfully updated.
With the new connection, *all* Matronics network services are now run out
of one location under my control and should provide a very stable environment.
You should notice an improvment the the responsiveness of Matronics web
pages and hopefully better turn around on messages posted to the Lists.
Be sure to try out the new web server and let me know how the 'performance'
feels.
And now that the new web server is running, I will be bringing the all new,
and significantly improved, Archive Search Engine online in just a few days!
Beta test input has been very positive, and I think everyone will be very
pleased with the new features and PERFORMANCE!
Following the posting of this message, I will enable the Lists again and
start posting the messages that were received during the Network upgrade.
Best Regards,
Matt Dralle
RV-List and Zenith-List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles H. Ennis" <105523.2542(at)compuserve.com> |
subscribe 105523.2542(at)compuserve.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
Hi Listers-
Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A?
I haven't had any experience with one before but I can get one pretty cheap.
Is it worth taking a chance on? Or should I stick with the PaceSetter that
has always worked good for me?
Jim
RV6a-finishing kit. Fitting canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
Dear listers,
i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing kit.
also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built spars?
and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8
thanks
scott reviere
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
Is the list working?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Fairing |
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit
> instead of
> using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
> Mounting Empennage
>
Paul,
Avery's has aluminum cable fairings. $10.75 for 2 rudder and 1 elevator
fairing. Trim to Fit!
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Fairing |
Paul,
We sell a set of stamped aluminum rudder cable fairings including one for
each side of the fuselage and an extra for the trim tab cable exit. The price
is $10.75 plus shipping.
George Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott Burger" <hbarca(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | LOm engine mounts for RV-6 |
I am looking for some mounts in order to mount a LOM (Moravia) engine
in a n RV-6 so that it will work reliably. If anyone can help me I would
greatly appreciate it.
Thanks,
Scott Burger
email: hbarca(at)hotmail.com
Nunca tenga miedo de lograr...
Never be afraid to achieve...
N'avez jamais peur d'achever...
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
<< In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
>>
I have an article (Contact! magazine) around here somewher about a fella who
put an augmenter system on his EZ (powered by a Honda, I think). The outlet
was much smaller than the intake!
Would this apply to your system? BTW- what engine and a/c are you using?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
Regarding RV ailerons, I am curious about any builders that may have balanced
their ailerons to 100%. What was the amount of weight added to achieve this
balance, and if so, what method was used to add weight?
RV-8 ailerons are of particular interest to me, as my ailerons seem to be
trailing edge heavy.
All comments welcome.
Jon Ross RV-80094 Skinning fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | photoman <innovate(at)dallas.net> |
Hello everyone,
I'm new to the list and not getting very many
letters. How many a day on average? Thanks.
David
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Randy McCallister <rmccalli(at)runet.edu> |
Subject: | Question on RV-6 Elevator horn/rib |
Can anyone help with this one? Does the rib above the elevator horn (R-405)
fit snuggly on top of the horn. In other words, the rib flange shoves down
between the horn and the spar. Do I groove the rib flange around the attach
bolt as much as possible to get it to fit right on top of R-405? I am
confused by the drawing. The rivets won't go into the rib flange if I don't
push it all the way but this is not specifically shown on the drawing.
thanks, Randy
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net> |
Matt Dralle 510-606-1001 ,
Maxine Kelley ,
Michelle Steiner ,
Rory Duncan
Subject: | change of email address |
This is just a mass emailing to inform everyone that my email address is
changing to patk(at)iols.net effective immediately. The old address will
be good for a few days more, and the website will be changing over to
www.flion.com in a couple of weeks if the registration process goes
smoothly. Thanks for everyone's patience and sorry that I could not
send a personal message to everyone, but we are busy moving.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com> |
Subject: | Meet @ Design Auto Conf DAC San Fran |
I will be at DAC, the Design Automation Conference, in San Francisco Monday
6/15 through Thursday 6/18. If you are attending and would like to chat
regarding RVs, I can be found at the VeriBest Booth #608 or we can arrange
a time to meet via e-mail bhaan(at)easystreet.com.
Bob Haan
bhaan(at)easystreet.com
Portland, OR
RV6A 24461 Working on Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au> |
Subject: | RV-List:Rudder Cable Fairing |
Paul,
Murphy Aircraft have a nice rudder cable fairing off the Rebel, and fits
perfectly on any RV. I am not sure what the part number is, and they are
not expenisve. Murphy E-mail mursales(at)murphyair.com Be carefull when
drilling, they are easy to crack.
Ken Glover Newcastle OZ
cable fairing
off the Rebel, and fits perfectly on any RV. I am not sure what the part
number
is, and they are not expenisve. Murphy E-mail Date: | Jun 11, 1998 |
From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)iols.net> |
Subject: | Moving to Chicago |
Hi. Just wanted to follow up to the 'list and let everyone know that
the move to Chicago is in full swing. Judi has her still-wet diploma
and we have just taken our apartment in Palos Hills, a suburb on the
Southwest side of Chicago. My thanks to all the area 'listers who
submitted advice and help; I got everything I wanted in an apartment
except a place to build. I'll be looking for a garage or shop in the
Palos Hills area if anyone can help.
The project is still in the apartment in Ann Arbor until I can close the
wing. That should be done in a couple of weeks and I will then move it
all to Palos Hills. Once in Chicagoland, I will take a break in
building while I seek new employment, get settled, and try to change my
website. I'll be adding new pictures (at long last!), including ones
from the move. Once established, I hope to continue with the fuselage.
As you can see, my email has changed. The web site remains the same
until I get arrangements settled here; I'm trying to get a personal
domain registered. Once the website is moved and updated, I will post
an announcement on the 'list. Thanks to the readers who have asked
about updates and shown great patience - I hope to give you something
new soon. For any newcomers, the current RV project pages are at
http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm and you will probably do best to try the
book-styled presentation (I think I will retire the other pages in the
update).
If one of the Chicagoland RVer's would tell me where on Clow airport you
guys meet, I will try to make it out there soon. I look forward to
meeting you all and getting back into the project in the near future.
Thanks a bunch to everyone again for making this move so easy and
exciting.
PatK - RV-6A - On the move!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Subject: | Rudder Cable Fairing |
You can get some aluminum faring from Orndoff and I think also from
Avery or Cleveland. They are not that hard to make though.
*************************************************
* Gary Fesenbek
*
* Meridium Inc.
*
* (540) 344-9205 x112
*
* gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
*
* http://www.meridium.com
*
*************************************************
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Besing [SMTP:rv8er(at)doitnow.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 10:46 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Rudder Cable Fairing
>
>
> Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit
> instead of
> using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method?
>
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
> Mounting Empennage
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ralph Koger <kogrh(at)willinet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Fairing |
>
>Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of
>using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method?
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
>Mounting Empennage
>For my RV I formed fairings for the rudder cable exits out of soft
aluminum and cut them into a teardrop shape and then stuck them on with RTV
silicone. Aluminum and no riviting and looks good.
Ralph Koger
RV6A N16RK
Boone, Ia
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Fairing |
> Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of
> using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method?
>
> Paul Besing
Paul: Avery Tools sells a set of neat aluminum fairings, actually you get
three in the package. I used these on my -4 and they look pretty good.
Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net> |
On the trip to Sun-N-Fun I discovered I had a low tire. In my hanger I
have a straight inflater with the built in pressure gauge. After three
airports I gave up finding a similar type. Mostly they had the long pipe
with an angled head which inflates from both the acute and obtuse sides.
They will not fit in the access hole. I really didn't feel like removing
the wheel pants while on my trip. At a Sun-N-Fun booth I found some very
nice steel extensions for a buck which can be screwed on while adding air
and then of course removed. I meant to return and buy the entire box but
never did. I strongly recommend getting one of these and also cutting the
access hole in the pant big enough (1" -1 1/2") to reach in with your
fingers and remove the cap. Brian made his like 9/16" and has some little
tool to remove the cap, but when you're laying out on the hot tarmac it
might not seem so cool.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Hal Harle" <hal(at)axs4u.net> |
unsubscribe
hal(at)axs4u.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Fairing |
Paul,
Avery sells an aluminum one. It work very well.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
>Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of
>using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method?
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
>Mounting Empennage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
Subject: | $$$$$ for the NEW RV LIST ??? |
types="text/plain,text/html";
--=====================_45383504==_.ALT
>Listers,
>
>The Internet upgrade was a complete success! The connection wasn't up in
>time for a DNS update on Wednesday, and so DNS was updated early this morning
>(Thursday) and it appears that most servers around the Internet have been
>successfully updated.
Hey gang,
The Cyberspace merchants are in love with Matt Dralle and RV's and gave Matt a
whole new 1.1 Mb dedicated connection for free. His new server doesn't cost a
penny. And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit
purchasers. Ok, is the message coming through? Let's send some money.
With 800 to 1000 people on the list, it shouldn't burden any one individual.
Those of us who can't wait to see what's on the RV list each day should do our
part now. The other RV listers who are just lurking or have recently joined...
your time will come and you, too, will see the value of the list and
understand
the time, energy and money Matt puts into the list. He has never asked to be
repaid (which is an endearing trait or a character flaw... I can't figure out
which). So it is our responsibility to keep Matt's tanks full.
Matt's address is:
Matt G. Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, California 94551
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
--=====================_45383504==_.ALT
The Cyberspace merchants are in love with Matt Dralle and RV's and gave
server doesn't cost a penny. And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for
free to the next 500 kit purchasers. Ok, is the message coming
individual. Those of us who can't wait to see what's on the RV list each
day should do our part now. The other RV listers who are just lurking or
have recently joined... your time will come and you, too, will see the
value of the list and understand the time, energy and money Matt puts
into the list. He has never asked to be repaid (which is an endearing
trait or a character flaw... I can't figure out which). So it is our
--=====================_45383504==_.ALT--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Norman Younie" <nyounie(at)pacificcoast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Keep that Subject Line! |
I have not received any mail from the list for the last two days .Is there
a problem?
----------
> From: RV-List Tip of the Day <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Keep that Subject Line!
> Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:30 AM
>
> <<< No Message Collected >>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Hal Harle" <hal(at)axs4u.net> |
unsubscribe
hal(at)axs4u.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Henry and Joan Lumb" <lumb(at)flinet.com> |
Subject: | Whelen Strobe Cable Problem |
I ran into a quality problem with the 10 ft cable assembly supplied with
the Whelen Single Strobe Assembly (purchased thru Van's in May '97)
The cable assy comes with the strobe-end connector preassembled to the
cable.
The cable wires could be pulled out of this connector with moderate
finger pressure. Examination of the connector contacts showed that both
the wire crimps and insulation-support crimps were undercrimped.
You can inspect the insulation-support crimp without removing the
contacts from the connector. In my case, it was obvious that this crimp
was barely in contact with the insulation.
If you have a contact-extraction tool and a crimper, you can remove the
contacts and re-crimp them successfully. If not, get a replacement from
Whelen. (860) 526-9504
I suggest not soldering the wire crimp since this generally melts the
wire insulation, making the insulation-support crimp ineffective.
Note: Van's says that they now make this cable assembly in-house.
Hank Lumb
W. Palm Beach, FL
RV6A Fuselage.
the 10 ft
cable assembly supplied with the Whelen Single Strobe Assembly
(purchased thru
strobe-end
of this
color=3D#000000
size=3D2>Examination of the connector contacts showed that both the wire
crimps
insulation-support crimp
was
obvious that this crimp was barely in contact with the
tool and a
crimper, you can remove the contacts and re-crimp them
crimp since
this generally melts the wire insulation, making the insulation-support
crimp
this cable
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SHawksw523(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Surplus Engines and Propellors |
Hi
I am a new RV8 builder and had the good fortune to visit the factory recently
and had a warm welcome from some RVators at Arlington WA (special thanks to
Marty for the flight).
In the conversations somebody mentioned this list and a posting from someone
in the UK regarding surplus stock engines and hoffman props. I have been
unable to find them on the search engine - can anyone help?
Also does anyone know where | can get Mar Hide self etching primer in the UK?
Many thanks
Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
A>Did I mention that the cruise and top speed rose dramatically? Seems that
>all that extra inlet area was tripping the flow over a large setion of the
>fuselage and causing lots of drag.
>
>In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake.
Bob, the article that I had mentioned was in the EAA Experimenter, Jan. '93.
It said in other words, "The exit air must handle the inlet air plus the
expanded volume caused by removed engine heat".
The interesting thing about this is that the RV-6 cowl, that I have
"uninstalled", measures "very roughly" at the inlets a total of 56 sq.in.
and 40.5 sq.in. for the outlet. This is in reverse of the article theory and
your findings by a long ways, giving only .73 X the inlet for the exit. (If
my figures are right, which I will not swear to.) Is the difference in what
you found due to liquid cooling in your case and pusher type in the other,
as apposed to air cooled tractor types?
The article stated that the air "comes out at a velocity that is
slightly greater ideally, but maybe less than, the free airstream." This
article deals with slower airplanes than the RV series and states "for a
high performance airplane much less exit area is require".
The reason I am going into this is I am preparing to install the
round hole inlets and a plentum on my RV-6, O-320. Trying to come up with a
starting point for the exit air is my concern. With expert help, that I
personally do not have contact with, the inlet holes are figured at roughly
35.5 sq.in. for the two.
Any other and/or better ideas out there?
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
In a message dated 6/10/98 1:33:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
unistar(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< Does anyone have a formula or even rule of thumb for the the area of the
>outlet air as related to the inlet air of the cowling. >>
A good rule of thumb is 55 sq. in for 200 HP inlet area and 20% greater or 66
sq. in. outlet area. Also the inlet should expand to 4 times the volume to
slow the air down and allow it to get through the radiator easier and with
less drag
Not exact numbers but it's worked for 2 that I know of.
Regards, Merle (Yeah, the Chevy guy) Miller
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Fairing |
Avery sells an aluminum rudder cable exit fairing.
You can also make one yourself pretty easily. I did so by drilling a
hole the diameter of my pneumatic squeezer plunger in a block of wood
on a shallow diagonal. I then cut the block in half and stuck the
plunger in one side, stuck a piece of AL on top of it, and pressed the
other side on top of it to form the AL around the plunger. Worked
great.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
> Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:46:26 -0700 (MST)
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Rudder Cable Fairing
>
>
> Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of
> using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method?
>
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
> Mounting Empennage
>
>
>
>
Randall Henderson
Engineering Design Team, Inc.
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 4:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: SPAR HELP
>
>i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing
kit.
>scott reviere
>
Scott, I built my own spars. They're not a problem. If you can build the
rest of the plane you can build the spars. The Philiston spars are wonderful
to look at but when the plane is finished you can't see em anyhow. My advise
is to spend that money on another radio or something! The 6-A spars are
different than the 8's.
Tommy
Closeing 6-A Wings
Ridgetop Tennessee>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Listers,
Thanks to the help from some of you, I figured it was about time to
make the cut across the roll bar of my RV-6A tip up canopy. It was a
success, even though the line may not be as pretty as some of you
fellas have done. No cracks so far. Hopefully my luck will continue.
I tried the rear window after the cut and some sanding. It sure looks
good to me! Maybe this bird will fly someday.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Struggling with the canopy)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Van's Bill Benedict posted a reply on this very topic about a year ago
after people started speculating about pouring lead into their ailerons.
He advised to follow the plans. The ailerons are as balanced as the
designer designed them to be.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A battery box
-----Original Message-----
Regarding RV ailerons, I am curious about any builders
that may have balanced
their ailerons to 100%. What was the amount of weight
added to achieve this
balance, and if so, what method was used to add weight?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | SHawksw523(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Surplus propellors and engines |
Hi
I am a new RV8 builder and had the good fortune to visit the factory recently
and had a warm welcome from some RVators at Arlington WA (special thanks to
Marty).
In the conversations somebody mentioned this list and a posting from someone
in the UK regarding surplus stock engines and hoffman props. I have been
unable to find them on the search engine - can anyone help?
Also does anyone know where | can get Mar Hide self etching primer in the UK?
Many thanks
Stuart
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
From: | Ron Caldwell <rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net> |
Subject: | Suction/Vacuum Pressure |
I ran my engine (lyc 0-320) for the first time last monday night on my
RV6A. This was an exciting experience. Of course, I started checking
engine gauges to see if everything was working. I noticed that my
Vacuum/Suction guage was reading zero even when the engine was reving at
1500 rpm. I have sinced recheck my vacuum hoses to ensure there not
crimped or plugged. Now I wondering if I have my vacuum system
correctly installed? I have both a DG and Atitude Indicator. I have
the vacuum ports on both these gauges going to the Vacuum Regulator. I
have the two Air Inlets ports going to my Cockpit Air Filter. I have
the Gauge Ports connected to my Suction Gauge. I am curious about my
Suction Gauge Ports. One is marked with a "P" and the other with a
"V". I wasn't sure if it matter which of my two gyro guages these port
connect too. Another possibly is my Vacuum Pump is Used. Perhaps its
now not working properly. It worked fine about six months ago. Is
there any ways to test the Vacuum Pump for proper operation? Thanks
very much for your help.
Ron Caldwell
rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
From: | Ron Caldwell <rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net> |
Subject: | Oil Cooler Installation |
I have installed a Harrison style Oil Cooler from my Old Cherokee on my
new RV6a. I installed the Oil Cooler on my firewall. After running the
engine for the first time, I removed the 3" air inlet hose which
connects to top of right rear baffle and feeds air to the Oil Cooler,
and found a fine mist of oil on the inside of the hose. Is this
normal? I was surprised? I didn't think oil would get up into this
hose but I don't know. Now I'm wondering if I installed my Oil Cooler
hoses correctly. I have a Lyc 0-320 and ran the oil hose from the top
of my engine to the Cooler Port stamped with a "P". I ran oil cooler
hose next to the Oil filter down to the Oil Cooler Port with no
markings. Does this sound right? Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.
Ron Caldwell
rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
At a Sun-N-Fun booth I found some very
>nice steel extensions for a buck which can be screwed on while adding air
>and then of course removed
Camping World or most motorhome/trailer supply have what you discribed.
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
>Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A?
Jim, I don't have personal experience with them. All the local users I have
asked were more than happy with Warnke. The Cafe numbers sure seem good. It
was the one I was going to get if I hadn't stumbled into a C/S buy.
BTW, I see Mrs. Warnke is continueing the business.
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
Go with the Warnke....great prop on my 3...Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chat Daniel" <cdaniel(at)fnbbaldwin.com> |
Scott
Aerodynamically the wing on the -8 and -6 are the same, but the internal
structure is different.
----------
> From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: SPAR HELP
> Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 3:48 PM
>
>
> Dear listers,
> i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing
kit.
> also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built
spars?
> and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8
> thanks
> scott reviere
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
Kevin: Go down to your local plumbing shop and you can get a great
chromeplated snap-in plug to fit in the hole in the wheel cover...Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Michael Robbins snail mail address |
Sorry for the intrusion on the list.
I sent Michael Robbins information on registering (transfering registration)
aircraft by snail mail and it was returned. Could he please respond to me OFF
LIST with his address.
Thanks,
david faile, fairfield, ct
mcfii/a&p
eaa technical counselor/flight advisor
christen eagle ii since '82 (n13bf)
rv6 n44df started
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure |
Did you notice if your gauges were "spinning down" after engine shut down? If
so your vacuum system is working but the gauge is at fault. If they were not
spinning down your gauge is correct, you have zero vacuum.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Installation |
In a message dated 6/12/98 9:20:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net writes:
> I removed the 3" air inlet hose which
> connects to top of right rear baffle and feeds air to the Oil Cooler,
> and found a fine mist of oil on the inside of the hose. Is this
> normal?
No it is not. Your oil is to stay INSIDE the engine. Sounds like you might
have a pin hole in your cooler on one of the lines.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: Question on RV-6 Elevator horn/rib |
Randy McCallister wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone help with this one? Does the rib above the elevator horn (R-405)
> fit snuggly on top of the horn. In other words, the rib flange shoves down
> between the horn and the spar. Do I groove the rib flange around the attach
> bolt as much as possible to get it to fit right on top of R-405? I am
> confused by the drawing. The rivets won't go into the rib flange if I don't
> push it all the way but this is not specifically shown on the drawing.
>
Hi Randy,
The R404 rib must have a "V" groove cut in it so that the 3/8" bolt can
pass through it. I positioned the R405PD on the R404 and drew a circle
through the hole onto the R404 flange, then cut the "V" notch out. Be
sure to make the shim that goes under the R405PD and butts up against
the R404 flange. You can do yourself a favor now and order the new
prepunched R410($5) if you haven't already done so. That's the next
pain in the butt.
Good luck
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a(Straightening wing ribs)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance |
<< Van's Bill Benedict posted a reply on this very topic about a year ago
after people started speculating about pouring lead into their ailerons.
He advised to follow the plans. The ailerons are as balanced as the
designer designed them to be >>
Yes, I am aware of that thread from last year, I was present on the list at
that time. Still, there is some argument among aeronautical experts as to
whether a target of 70% balance as a design criteria is adequate for flutter
protection. Most current information specifies 100% balance at the speeds RV's
operate. I am asking if anyone here on the list has in fact balanced to 100%.
My own RV-8 ailerons would require about 1 lb 12 oz each to attain full static
balance.
I'm simply saying that "if it's not broke don't fix it" is not enough for me.
Can anyone elaborate on the theory of this type of aileron on an RV wing being
designed to be underbalanced as being the most flutter resitant, vs a 100%
balance? Will it make matters worse to balance it to 100%? If so, what is the
aerodynamic thoery applicable to the balance issue? Can someone here on the
list explain an accepted theory (and quote the source) stating that it is more
resistant to flutter to balance at 70% than at 100%?
The RV-8 wing has a different spar, it is lighter than it's earlier
evolutionary cousins. Vibration and resistance to flex are certainly different
on the RV-8 wing than the other RV wings. This fact may dictate the need for
more static balance than 70%. The same water pipe is used for balancing the
RV-6 ailerons as the RV-8. The RV-8 has thicker skins, .020 vs .016. So the
RV-8 aileron is in fact a bit tail heavier than RV-6 aileron. So in effect, we
have a wing with different vibration nodes and an aileron that is even more
underbalanced than the earlier, RV-6 wing. Again, can some enginneering types
here on the list elaborate on this?
This is not meant to be critical of Van. He is most probably the best designer
in the homebuilt industry. Airplane design is a compromise, and this is one of
those areas where a choice may have been made. It's a good bet that there will
be more on the balance issue from the factory.
Jon Ross
RV-80094 Fuselage just about ready to come out of the
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure |
I BELIEVE YOU WILL FIND THE PORT MARKED P WILL BE PRESSURE!
ARE YOU TRYING TO RUN VACUUM INST ON PRESSURE?
RV273SB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
Subject: | Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure |
I was able to test my entire vacuum system using my household central vac. This
way I was able to set up the regulator during operation without having the engine
running. A good portable vacuum cleaner should be able to draw enough vacuum as
well. All I used was lots of duct tape to seal the central vac hose to the
Mil-6000 hose coming off the regulator at the firewall. Also found that the vacuum
gauge was 1" out if calibration. I tested that against a water column that
equalled 5"hg.
A friend of mine uses a vacuum cleaner to test for leaks in the pressurized
aircraft he maintains.
Ron Caldwell wrote:
> -
> there any ways to test the Vacuum Pump for proper operation? Thanks
> very much for your help.
>
> Ron Caldwell
> rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Dukerich <TDukerich(at)ntninc.com> |
Subject: | Matronics Back Online! |
Matt,
Just wanted to thank for all your efforts. You have gone above and
beyond to provide us a great venue.
Tom Dukerich
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
I agree with the comments below and would add that the conditions the
ailerons are exposed to in flight are 99 % dynamic due to airflow - not
static as is being proposed by this discussion of adding lead to the
couterweight to balance the surface on the ground in still air. I know
I'll likely get realigned on the technical specifics by the experts, but
the fact that the elevators or other surfaces balance statically is only
a coincidence. The control surfaces, in conjunction with the control
linkages and the surrounding airflow act as a dynamic mechanical system
- and they may or may not balance statically. This is far as I care to
venture into this touchy, technical subject...maybe someone who has
working technical knowledge of this subject could offer a quick, concise
reply to make us all a little more comfortable.
Bryan Jones, Pearland, TX
RV-8 80313, installing fuselage wiring and seats
> Van's Bill Benedict posted a reply on this very topic about a year ago
> after people started speculating about pouring lead into their
> ailerons.
> He advised to follow the plans. The ailerons are as balanced as the
> designer designed them to be.
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com> |
Could you elaborate a little on the differences (other than the
attachment to the fuselage). I am trying to visualize what could have
lead to the RV-8 wing failure and what I and the other RV-8 builders
might have coming as a fix. I'm not trying to get any speculation going
on the loss of the RV-8 - just trying to understand the differences !!
> The 6-A spars are
> different than the 8's.
>
> Tommy
> Closeing 6-A Wings
> Ridgetop Tennessee>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Installation |
<< I have installed a Harrison style Oil Cooler from my Old Cherokee on my
new RV6a. I installed the Oil Cooler on my firewall. After running the
engine for the first time, I removed the 3" air inlet hose which
connects to top of right rear baffle and feeds air to the Oil Cooler,
and found a fine mist of oil on the inside of the hose. Is this
normal? >>
Not really. You have a leak somewhere. If you need a different cooler (all
hoses are tight?), many builders are opting for the Setrab brand cooler from
TMR in Orange, CA. About $70 US. I have one of these on my bird (19
row/IO-540), and it works fine! Call Mike at: 714-771-1348. You will need a 9
or 13 row for the 320.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | caummisa(at)arn.net (Richard Caummisar, CSP) |
Subject: | Re: Matronics Back Online! |
Lister donations (and Matt's) at work!
.......Matt will accept donations to offset his expenses.
Send your donation today.
Here's the address..........
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
==========================================================
>
>Listers,
>
>The Internet upgrade was a complete success!
>Beta test input has been very positive, and I think everyone will be very
>pleased with the new features and PERFORMANCE!
>Best Regards,
>
>Matt Dralle
>RV-List and Zenith-List Admin.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure |
Now I wondering if I have my vacuum system
>correctly installed? I have both a DG and Atitude Indicator. I have
>the vacuum ports on both these gauges going to the Vacuum Regulator. I
>have the two Air Inlets ports going to my Cockpit Air Filter. I have
>the Gauge Ports connected to my Suction Gauge. I am curious about my
>Suction Gauge Ports. One is marked with a "P" and the other with a
>"V". I wasn't sure if it matter which of my two gyro guages these port
>connect too.
The "P" is for pressure and the "V" is for vacuum. Some equipment uses
pressure to spin the gyros (most notably turbine based stuff) and almost
every GA type uses vacuum. My instrument guy says you can tell the
pressure driven gyros from the corrosion inside caused by the condensed
moisture!
>Ron Caldwell
>rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Subject: | RV-6A kit for sale |
Fellow Listers,
One of our MN Wing members has the following RV-6A kit components for sale:
Empennage kit (partially complete)
Wing kit
Fuselage kit
plus assorted tools.
Prices of these items are very attractive. Contact Bob Sohlden, Hancock,
MI, 906-482-0669
Thanks,
Doug
*******************************************
Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
Denny and others,
I dont think that there is a generic ratio of inlet to outlet that you can
apply to all aircraft and that is why you find that one design may require
a different ratio than another. As Bob Steward pointed out, the important
factors are the ratio of inlet versus outlet pressure, clean, non turbulent
airflow through the cooling system, and efficiency of the coolers used.
This applies to radiators as well as cooling fins.
So the best possible situation would be to install the inlets at the
highest pressure point on the airframe and the outlet at the lowest
pressure point. This is the reason that the P-51 cooling system works so
well with the inlet under the wing and outlet on the aft fuse(at least in
flight). I assume that the airframe that Bob was discussing didnt allow
placement of inlets and outlets in such locations and that is why his
particular application required the 3 to 1 ratio he described.
Of course relocating your cooling system if you are using a Lycoming isnt
really an option. So you have to optimize the inlets and outlets. The
cowling/plenum you describe as used by Dave Anders, Tracy Saylor, Steve
Bernard, etc.. allow the inlets and outlets to be reduced and still
maintain adequate cooling because they more efficiently convert velocity to
pressure on the inlet side and more efficiently convert the pressure back
to velocity on the outlet side. Aerodynamic tweaks that work on the
exterior of the airframe also work inside the cowling. Any turbulent flow
in the cowling reduces cooling efficiency. Look at the pictures that
appeared in the RVator of Dave Anders RV-4 and see how he attempted to
optimize the exit so he could reduce its size. Talk to these guys and find
out what they have done. Of course since you are building a -6 you could
buy one of Steve's "Holy Cowls" and all the research is done for you; just
install it.
The augmenter that Mark Frederick talked about is also an interesting
approach to reducing pressure on the outlet side. There is a description of
this in one of Tony Bingelis' books as well as the Contact article Mark
mentioned. The Powersport guys were experimenting with one on their Mazda
powered -4 as well, before it was lost.
Mike Wills
RV-4 (fuse)
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
> The reason I am going into this is I am preparing to install the
>round hole inlets and a plentum on my RV-6, O-320. Trying to come up with a
>starting point for the exit air is my concern. With expert help, that I
>personally do not have contact with, the inlet holes are figured at roughly
>35.5 sq.in. for the two.
> Any other and/or better ideas out there?
>
>
>Have a good one!
>Denny - RV-6 finishing
>harje(at)proaxis.com
>Lebanon, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
Subject: | Re: tire pressure |
> At a Sun-N-Fun booth I found some very
> >nice steel extensions for a buck which can be screwed on while adding air
> >and then of course removed
I must have missed the original question, but if you are looking for a
way to get an airhose attachment through the little hole in the wheel
pant and into the tire nozzle, there is a perfect answer.
Big A Auto Parts (and I'm sure the others too) sell a straight chuck
that's about 3/4" in diameter and 3 inches long (4" when you add a quick
disconnect fitting). It cost about $6. It fits perfectly, and eliminates
all the hassle of filling a tire. The store I went to didn't have it on
the shelf, but I told them what I needed and they quickly found it in
their catalog. I had it the next day.
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
http://www.rvbookstore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ingram <ingram(at)springfieldautomation.com> |
unsubscibe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
>A>Did I mention that the cruise and top speed rose dramatically? Seems that
>>all that extra inlet area was tripping the flow over a large setion of the
>>fuselage and causing lots of drag.
>>
>>In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake.
>
>Bob, the article that I had mentioned was in the EAA Experimenter, Jan. '93.
>It said in other words, "The exit air must handle the inlet air plus the
>expanded volume caused by removed engine heat".
> The interesting thing about this is that the RV-6 cowl, that I have
>"uninstalled", measures "very roughly" at the inlets a total of 56 sq.in.
>and 40.5 sq.in. for the outlet. This is in reverse of the article theory and
>your findings by a long ways, giving only .73 X the inlet for the exit. (If
>my figures are right, which I will not swear to.) Is the difference in what
>you found due to liquid cooling in your case and pusher type in the other,
>as apposed to air cooled tractor types?
> The article stated that the air "comes out at a velocity that is
>slightly greater ideally, but maybe less than, the free airstream." This
>article deals with slower airplanes than the RV series and states "for a
>high performance airplane much less exit area is require".
> The reason I am going into this is I am preparing to install the
>round hole inlets and a plentum on my RV-6, O-320. Trying to come up with a
>starting point for the exit air is my concern. With expert help, that I
>personally do not have contact with, the inlet holes are figured at roughly
>35.5 sq.in. for the two.
> Any other and/or better ideas out there?
>Denny - RV-6 finishing
What I didn't mention is that the air inlet on the water-cooled plane I was
working with is now *18* sq. in.!!! Yes, that's correct. 18. It is split
into 2 NACA inlets which feed an expansion plenum with walls tapering (out)
in *3* dimensions as close to 7 degrees as AL Clad will permit. This feeds
an aluminum cored radiator, which for space considerations must exhaust
over the hot engine and then all flow is collected at the back of the
engine and then run to the exit with as little flow disruption as possible.
In other words, the airplane gets in the way of ideal airflow, but the
compromises have been acceptable given the vast improvements in cooling.
Now to the issue of "augmentor" exits... If you have room under the cowl
to install an extractor type arrangement which will attempt to accelerate
the exhaust flow back to near free stream speed, go for it. Most all GA
stuff is too small (read too short) under the cowl to do a good job of
slowing the air coming *IN* to maximize the pressure available to blow down
trhough the engine, and don't have room (length again) to properly reverse
this process to return the expanded heat laden air back to atmospheric.
Dan Bond (of Nemesis fame) had a few comments in Sport Aviation some years
back which detailed the methods for reducing cooling drag from approx 1/3
of the total airframe drag. Good food for thought. Look at the work
LoPresti Speed Merchants is doing with Cowls for Pipers. They are gaining
substantial speed from recowling 20-35 year old designs for better flow
through the engine compartment. You may recall the work Roy Lopresti and
Assoc. did for the Grumman Tiger and the Mooney 201 etal. which added speed
to both of these popular planes at no cost in fuel. Both gained in excess
of 20 mph through proper application of air flow theory *INSIDE* the cowl.
Bob Steward, A&P IA
AA-1B N8978L
AA-5A N1976L
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance |
Bryan:
<< The control surfaces, in conjunction with the control
linkages and the surrounding airflow act as a dynamic mechanical system
- and they may or may not balance statically. >>
Excellent post. However, we then rely on all linkages to have zero free play.
Perhaps the 100% balance may not hurt, but help in the case of a linkage with
some play in it. Yes, it is a dynamic system with the airflow and linkages
considered, and this is the same reason that static testing is not often
adequate to address strength issues as flight loads are dynamic. Perhaps this
is the reason that there is dispute among designers regarding flutter
protection, that is, it is a dynamic issue.
I too, wonder what fix may be coming for us RV-8 builders.
Best regards,
Jon Ross RV-80094
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< The 6-A spars are
different than the 8's. >>
And for this we 6A owners are extremely and eternally grateful.
-GV
In my experience Van's wiring quality is pretty poor, or at least it was. I
had to completely redo my Bendix/King radio wiring because of numerous broken
wires and inadequate terminations. Many of these were badly crimped and then
soldered. I would have preferred that they just send the parts and pieces so
I could terminate, but Bendix/King supposedly requires their distributers to
provide the harness. Too bad, as I am very picky about my wiring.
IMO, do them yourself.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance, flutter |
While we are talking about control surface balance, and flutter, I have a
question. If we have all these RV's going faster then Van's Vne, how did Van
detrmine his Vne? Did he test it, or did he calculate it? Are you taking a
big risk by exceeding Vne, or is it just a very conservative number? Has
anyone ever experienced flutter in their RV, and if so, at what speed?
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
>
*** big snip ***
>Of course since you are building a -6 you could
>buy one of Steve's "Holy Cowls" and all the research is done for you; just
>install it.
Guys,
... spoke to Theresa (sp?) Barnard last week, and they are moving out
of the RV supply business. His "Holy Cowls" are no longer available.
.... Gil (cowl-less in LA) Alexander
PS does anyone know of (or have) an old "Fixed Pitch" cowl for sale for a
RV-6A? Preferably in the CA-NV-UT area.
RV6A, #20701 finishing kit .... but no cowl...:^(
>
*** more snip ***
>Mike Wills
>RV-4 (fuse)
>willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
6-A spars are
>> different than the 8's.
>>
>> Tommy
>> Closeing 6-A Wings
>> Ridgetop Tennessee>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
<< i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing
kit.
also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built spars?
and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8
thanks
scott reviere >>
Scott,
The phlogiston spars are a beautifull piece of work. I had my spars
done by phlogiston when I built my 4. With the spars predrilled now its not
that big of a deal to build them yourself however. With the cost what it is
now to have them prebuilt I would probably put them together myself if I
were to do it again.
The spar on the 8 is completely different from the RV4 or The RV6 series.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In |
Listers,
Since we are back up and running again I thought it might be a
good time to let you all know that the Rocky Mountain Flyin is comming up.
June 27th and 28th will be the dates this year. The Rocky Mountain RVators
will be hosting an RV barbeque on the saturday of the flyin. We usually have a
great turn out of RVs and builders. The BBQ will be at Hangar 34 at noon. All
are welcome.
( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!)
Ryan Bendure Co. RV4 131RB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
This was posted on usenet today, and I thought it might be of interest to
listers wondering about this prop.
Rob (RV-6Q, Socal, cutting slider canopy, using Sensenich!)
*********************************
Bruce A. Frank wrote:
>
> HornetBall wrote:
> >
> > You might also check with your insurance carrier about the Ivo. Avemco
told me
> > today that they would not insure a Velocity with an Ivo.
>
> Avemco sounds like they are trying to get out of the aircraft insurance
> business.
> --
> Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL
Bruce,
I expect Avemco are just being prudent about the risks they will
under-write. When I had my NSI CAP prop failure last August, I reported
it to Ben Owen at EAA. Ben sent me a report compiled from other written
reports to EAA of prop failures. IVOs (all types, not just Magnums)
comprised close to 70% of that list at that time.
I suspect that Avemco have an equal or larger list of their own, based
on their loss history that has led them to the decision to not insure
aircraft equipped with IVOs. This is not meant to imply that IVOs don't
work well in many applications, but a Lyc O-320/O-360 is pretty tough on
props, even wood props were included in Ben Owen's list.
Aside from fire, or structural failure, there aren't too many
emergencies more frightening than a catastrophic prop failure (Been
there, done that; hopefully never again!). I encourage the original
poster to carefully research the use of the IVO on an O-320 before
committing. Perhaps Avemco will share their loss experience with him?
Regards........Gary, ex Lancair 235 pilot, current RV-6 pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
Hi Scott,
The RV8 spars and the RV6/6A spars are completely different.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks CA
>
>Dear listers,
>i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same
>wing kit.
>also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built
>spars?
>and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8
>thanks
>scott reviere
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
<< The augmenter that Mark Frederick talked about is also an interesting
approach to reducing pressure on the outlet side. There is a description of
this in one of Tony Bingelis' books as well as the Contact article Mark
mentioned. The Powersport guys were experimenting with one on their Mazda
powered -4 as well, before it was lost.
>>
I found the article- the outlet was a pc of 5" galv ducting 20" long pulling
thru a 9"x12" radiator (with the appropriate reducing funnel). The owner was
able to get a 2.9" difference in water column height.
Beech used the augmenters on the T-34, and I believe on some of their larger
twins. Piper had it on the Apache. If any of you recall the Omega II, it also
used an augmenter system.
I don't have the 6-channel CHT system it would take to set such a system up,
or I would do it. I'll bet the outlets would be unbelievably small.
Of course, we are trying to dump air into a high pressure area- the bottom of
the a/c! I would consider this a fundemental mistake, but there doesn't seem
to be a way out of this dilemma, short of dumping the air out right in front
of the windscreen (consider the errant oil leak when trying to design this
setup). Maybe some sort of side outlet, re: T-18/Pitts/EAA bipe/many others?
Maybe some side 'cowl flaps', and a very tiny bottom outlet combination. This
would be easy on the -6 or the -8, but more difficult on the -4 due to its
smaller flat side area (cowl cheeks, you know).
An interesting discussion- we are discussing going faster (less drag) without
using more power/fuel...........
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A kit for sale |
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> One of our MN Wing members has the following RV-6A kit components for sale:
>
> Empennage kit (partially complete)
> Wing kit
> Fuselage kit
>
> plus assorted tools.
>
> Prices of these items are very attractive. Contact Bob Sohlden, Hancock,
> MI, 906-482-0669
Hi Doug:
I'm looking to buy a fuselage kit, I just spoke with Bob and he is not
sure if he wants to sell the kits separately or not.
If there is somebody out there who would like to purchase just the
Empennage or Wing kits maybe we could swing a deal. I was going to order
my fuselage kit in the middle of July, so if somebody is interested in
the next month or so let me know.
I'll be out of town till Monday, Terry
Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A
38 Cartier St.
Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca
Ontario Canada
P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Subject: | Aileron Balance, flutter |
>> Has anyone ever experienced flutter in their RV, and if so,
at what >>speed?
Flutter leads to structural disintegration. Most folks that
experience it don't live to tell the tale. Every time I read about some
aircraft just breaking up I think about flutter. When you think about
all the ways it can happen ie. control linkages, rain/water loads, ice,
dings, etc. you come to the conclusion...
It's best just not to think about it.
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A, Roanoke, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In |
<< ( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!)
Ryan Bendure Co. RV4
131RB
>>
It's called a doghouse, you dummy! Any married man should know...
I STILL owe you a ride. Get the truck reserved. Have your tools ready...
Ol' Doug : Are you attending this one?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
Subject: | F-618 seat rib to F604(6A) |
1> My fwd flange (that needs 9-#3 rivets) almost lines up with the upper
& lower AN-3 bolts through the spar stiffeners ONLY on the 2- F618's. If
I try to go to the next spacing, thats too far. Can I just leave the top
& bottom rivets out & use the 2 bolts as long as I can get the nuts on?
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rick_Smith(at)tivoli.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 empanage kit for sale |
Comrades,
I have a 6-month old RV-8 tail kit with the electric trim option that is
for sale in Austin Texas.
The rudder and vertical fin are 100% complete, with the tips attached and
precisely matched fit to each other. No other components are started. The
tail light is mounted in the rudder and is included. The workmanship is
excellent and I guarantee your satisfaction with all work. If interested I
have local references who are on this list.
I have a flying RV-6 and thought I wanted to build another RV but would
rather build a lake house and fly the -6 more.
For $1000.00 I will crate it up and ship freight collect . The total cost
for this kit was approximately $1,500 not counting the alodine, acid etch,
tail light assembly, variprime, Band-Aids, etc.
Contact me at: rick.smith(at)tivoli.com or call (512) 249-7063 in the
evenings.
Check six...you interested yet?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Re: $$$ for the NEW LIST??? |
>--------------
>--> Message posted by: Louis Willig
>
>>Listers,
>>
>>The Internet upgrade was a complete success! The connection wasn't up in
>>time for a DNS update on Wednesday, and so DNS was updated early this morning
>>(Thursday) and it appears that most servers around the Internet have been
>>successfully updated.
>
>Hey gang,
>
>The Cyberspace merchants are in love with Matt Dralle and RV's and gave Matt a
>whole new 1.1 Mb dedicated connection for free. His new server doesn't cost a
>penny. And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit
>purchasers. Ok, is the message coming through? Let's send some money.
>
>With 800 to 1000 people on the list, it shouldn't burden any one individual.
>Those of us who can't wait to see what's on the RV list each day should do our
>part now. The other RV listers who are just lurking or have recently joined...
>your time will come and you, too, will see the value of the list and
>understand >the time, energy and money Matt puts into the list. He has
>never asked to be repaid (which is an endearing trait or a character
>flaw... I can't figure out which). So it is our responsibility to keep
>Matt's tanks full.
>
>
>Matt's address is:
>
> Matt G. Dralle
> PO Box 347
> Livermore, California 94551
>
>Louis I. Willig
>larywil(at)home.com
>(610) 668-4964
>Philadelphia, PA
>--------------
Louis and Listers,
Thank you for your support!
I have set up a Secure Transaction web page on the my server that will allow
those who wish to make a contribution using a Credit Card a simple and easy
way to do so. Once on the Contribution page, all data sent across the
Internet (i.e. the credit card number) is encrypted for maximum card
security.
The URL for the RV-List Contribution Page is:
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/contribution.html
and the URL for the Zenith-List Contribution Page is:
http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list/contribution.html
Your contributions will go directly to support the continued operation
and upgrade the Lists and systems that support it.
Again, I want to thank everyone for their support. Your generosity and
moral support is greatly appreciated!
Enjoy!
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Subject: | RV-8 and RV-6 spars |
The differences in the spars were covered in detail in a RVAtor about
two years ago. It was the issue that introduced the RV-8 if I am not
mistaken. While different from the RV-6 and RV-4 spars, the RV-8 spars
were thoroughly in the mainstream of aircraft engineering.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
The RV8 spars and the RV6/6A spars are completely
different.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Eric Barnes <erbarnes(at)cisco.com> |
Subject: | PDX Area 172 Prepurchase Inspection - Recommendation? |
If anyone in the Portland area has a recommendation (or warning) for
someone to do a pre-purchase inspection/annual on a C-172, I'd appreciate it.
PLEASE CONTACT ME DIRECTLY at:
erbarnes(at)cisco.com
TIA,
EB
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In |
What airport and how many RV's do you expect?
Thanks..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
Mounting Empennage
>
>Listers,
> Since we are back up and running again I thought it might be a
>good time to let you all know that the Rocky Mountain Flyin is comming up.
>June 27th and 28th will be the dates this year. The Rocky Mountain RVators
>will be hosting an RV barbeque on the saturday of the flyin. We usually
have a
>great turn out of RVs and builders. The BBQ will be at Hangar 34 at noon. All
>are welcome.
>( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!)
> Ryan Bendure Co. RV4
131RB
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-6A kit for sale |
correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the wing kit had to match the fuse kit
scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | PILOT8127(at)aol.com |
There is a gathering of RV's scheduled for Saturday. BMG Bloomington
Airport,
Bloomington, In. Breakfast at 8:00am. Airshow at 10:30am. Lunch at noon or
so.
Airshow at 3:30pm. The airport will be CLOSED during the airshows. All are
welcome. Many planes will be displayed. BMG is 50 mi. SW of Indy. TWR.
controlled. See Ya there?? Gary and N5AJ (RV-3, 160hp.)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Dahl" <dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In |
...and at what airport will the Rocky Mountain Flyin be held at?
Christopher Dahl
RV4 N426RC
----------
> From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In
> Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 9:26 AM
>
>
> Listers,
> Since we are back up and running again I thought it might be
a
> good time to let you all know that the Rocky Mountain Flyin is comming
up.
> June 27th and 28th will be the dates this year. The Rocky Mountain
RVators
> will be hosting an RV barbeque on the saturday of the flyin. We usually
have a
> great turn out of RVs and builders. The BBQ will be at Hangar 34 at noon.
All
> are welcome.
> ( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!)
> Ryan Bendure Co. RV4
131RB
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
>
>
>
>
> Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A?
>
>
> Using a Warnke 70 x 72 on my RV-6A w/Lycoming 160HP, results: Excellent. Fast
> lift off, max TAS 202MPH, no problems whatever. (I'm operating off an airport
at
> 7,500ft)
>
> Jim
> RV6a-finishing kit. Fitting canopy
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Thomas <wd_thomas(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Alternative engines/props |
Has anyone had actual experience with Belted Air Power's Chevy V6
installation for the RV6A? I have talked to them at length, and they
sound pretty good at face value. I know Van's attitude about
non-Lycoming engines, but at those prices.............!! The Chevy V6
puts out about 180-200 HP in the range of 4400 rpm, which is about the
right speed for the PSRU that BAP sells. One issue with the Chev is
weight: but that could be offset with aftermarket aluminum heads (Brodix
makes heads that fit this rpm range).
BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues
with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on
the Chevy or a standard Lycoming?
Bill - finishing fuselage, RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
Sam James called this morning. I asked him if he knew anything
about the ratio. He said they had made Dave Anders plenum and that Dave's
-4 has considerable less that 1:1 ratio. My intake will have about 35
sq.in. of intake total. Sam told me that about a 30 sq.in exit should do it
fine, about 86% of the intake. This goes against the Experimenter theory.
A good friend of mine purchased a Bernard cowl. However he has the
extended C/S on his engine. I inqured about the Holey cowl but was told
they did not make one for the standard cowl, as it would not do much good.
The thought behind that is as mention in one of the posts, distance to get
the flow smoothed out is a major factor.
But Tracy S. fast -6 did not have an extended C/S and his did him
some good, obviously. From his advise I am going to get the intake as far
forward as possible. On the first run after the mod Tracy S. mention the
prop ticked the intakes. He shaved them a little and now the clearance is
about 1/16" he says now. An article I read a long time ago before I was
very interested in this mentioned that the need for about 12" of tube
leading into the plenum was needed to get the flow stablized, was found in
their experiments.
It appears in the pictures of Dave Anders -4 cowl that it appears
simular to an augmentor on the exit air side.
More speed with less power interests me because I can pull it back
and make fuel. That is the theroy anyway. We will see.
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A kit for sale |
The wing kit comes with the appropriate fuselage bulkheads which are matched
to the wings.
Doug Weiler
>
>correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the wing kit had to match the fuse
kit
>scott
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "MikeH" <MikeH(at)ghpd.com> |
Does the 6/6A spar differ from the 3 spar ?
Mike Henney
RV-6A empenage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
> From: Bill Thomas <wd_thomas(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Has anyone had actual experience with Belted Air Power's Chevy V6
> installation for the RV6A?
Bill,
There's quite a bit about this conversion in the archives, and at
www.dejanews.com. I've flown it, and was quite impressed by the
engineering. With my limited RV flight time as a baseline, I equate its
performance about equal to a heavy O-320 powered bird.
A fresh overhaul O-320 with all accessories costs $12K, so there's a
minimal initial cost advantage. I choose the Lycosaur for better airframe
performance (lighter aircraft), and proven reliability. If you use
aluminum heads it would equalize the cost and performance differences.
I spoke to a test pilot involved with the project this past weekend, he
informed me the PSRU
belt has shredded a couple of times in flight, one occurence resulting in
an off-field landing. If this is true, it makes me feel better about my
engine decision.
Rob (RV-6Q, Socal, cutting slider canopy).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | KAMKZ <marr(at)shianet.org> |
Subject: | New R410PP (Rudder Brace) |
For those who have purchased the *new* R410PP (rudder brace) from Van's:
What, specifically, is different about this part? I assume the bend radius has
changed
to fit snugly in between the rib flanges without shimming. Also, the "PP" suffix
makes
me assume that *something* is prepunched. What might that be -- the holes to
attach it to the rib flange?
Is the 2.125" lightening hole pre-cut now?
Thanks in advance!
Bill Marr
RV-8 (#80439) empennage
Byron, MI
________________________________________________________________________________
<< And for this we 6A owners are extremely and eternally grateful.
-GV
>>
GV
Your information seems generally to be based on fact, and your advice sound.
Have you given over to emotionalism today(temporarily I am sure), or do you
have some factual information the rest of us are not privy to? If so, please
share.
Respectfully,
Dennis Clay #80473
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
>Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A?
>I haven't had any experience with one before but I can get one pretty cheap.
>Is it worth taking a chance on? Or should I stick with the PaceSetter that
>has always worked good for me?
>Jim
>RV6a-finishing kit. Fitting canopy
Jim,
Warnke made a nice prop. What is the pitch & diameter? Was it pitched
for a RV? If it was pitched for another aircraft, it could be far from what
you need. What's the cost? If it's really cheap and the pitch & diameter
are close to what you think you need, I'd buy it just for a spare.
As has been discussed on the list in the past, it's very difficult to
compare pitches between different prop makers. And, even the same prop
maker makes 2 or 3 "identical" props they can all have very different
performances. Some prop makers are better at getting it right the first
time than others.
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com> |
The -4 & -6 spars are made up up of a center web piece and multiple,
varying length aluminum bars which are riveted together to form very strong,
laminated spar caps. The -8 uses a single aluminum bar beautifully machined
to varying degrees of thickness. It looks great. But my experience has
always been that laminated components are generally stronger (or at least
less subject to a single point of failure in the event of a flaw) than a
single component. I have no idea whether this experience applies to RV wing
spars. But a NTSB inspector who spoke at the MN RV Forum made the comment
that in the RV crashes he's investigated he has been impressed with the
strength of the -4/-6 spars. I think he said he had not seen one fail, even
in some very serious crashes. Hopefully, the -8 will prove just as strong.
Loren Jones
Prior Lake, MN - Emp going into jig....shop almost complete!
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: SPAR HELP
>
>I would also like to hear the differences between the 8 and 6/4 spars, and
>any reasons Van may have had for changing the design.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance, flutter |
<< If we have all these RV's going faster then Van's Vne, how did Van
detrmine his Vne? Did he test it, or did he calculate it? Are you taking a
big risk by exceeding Vne, or is it just a very conservative number? >>
You'd have to ask Van if this was a calculation, but I do not believe so. It
is "suppose" to represent the speed to which the aircraft has successfully
been tested. It is, however, possible that this number is actually a number
that Van felt was realistic(conservative) and that the plane had been tested
for a higher speed. I mean, look at the VNE numbers for the RV-4. Now, I ask
you,
"How fast has Dave Ander's had his RV-4, and has he had any difficulties with
flutter?" Just a thought.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
<< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues
with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on
the Chevy or a standard Lycoming? >>
Folks, I "might" be wrong, but I would think that "even with an IVO prop", a
failure would be less likely on a Chevy V-6 installation than it might on a
LYC. I am planning on a LYC, but believe the Chevy is easier on the prop.
Just an opinion.
It would be interesting to look at the EAA list of prop failures to proof out
this theory.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: SPAR HELP & RV Chat |
Cool it guys, this will get outa hand quick.
On another note, if any lister is interested in a simple, easy to use
chat program that sets itself up and doesn't use any complicated chat
addresses, please email me PERSONALLY. It is called ICQ, and it is an
internet pager that lets you know when your buddies are online, and
allows you to send them realtime messages and open a chat session with
as many as you like. There is noo need to wait in an empty chat room,
just look at your buddy list to see who is online at that time. It is so
simple, even Doug Rozendaal got it set up and running. If you send me an
email personally, I will send you a link to the website you download it
from. It will set itself up quickly and hassle free, and it runs
automatically.
We chat almost nightly, and we can speculate all we want about Lesbian
UFO's shooting down N58RV without fear of being called troublemakers.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
DenClay(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> << And for this we 6A owners are extremely and eternally grateful.
>
> -GV
> >>
> GV
>
> Your information seems generally to be based on fact, and your advice sound.
> Have you given over to emotionalism today(temporarily I am sure), or do you
> have some factual information the rest of us are not privy to? If so, please
> share.
>
> Respectfully,
> Dennis Clay #80473
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
That guy said everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame, and I just wanted to
let everyone know that mine are on page 13 of the latest RVator.
In other words, Ken published the little article I wrote about instaling
the IO320-B1A in my RV-6.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia ) |
Subject: | Re: Moving to Chicago |
You wrote:
>
>
>Hi. Just wanted to follow up to the 'list and let everyone know that
>the move to Chicago is in full swing. Judi has her still-wet diploma
>and we have just taken our apartment in Palos Hills, a suburb on the
>Southwest side of Chicago. My thanks to all the area 'listers who
>submitted advice and help; I got everything I wanted in an apartment
>except a place to build. I'll be looking for a garage or shop in the
>Palos Hills area if anyone can help.
>
>The project is still in the apartment in Ann Arbor until I can close
the
>wing. That should be done in a couple of weeks and I will then move
it
>all to Palos Hills. Once in Chicagoland, I will take a break in
>building while I seek new employment, get settled, and try to change
my
>website. I'll be adding new pictures (at long last!), including ones
>from the move. Once established, I hope to continue with the
fuselage.
>
>As you can see, my email has changed. The web site remains the same
>until I get arrangements settled here; I'm trying to get a personal
>domain registered. Once the website is moved and updated, I will post
>an announcement on the 'list. Thanks to the readers who have asked
>about updates and shown great patience - I hope to give you something
>new soon. For any newcomers, the current RV project pages are at
>http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm and you will probably do best to try the
>book-styled presentation (I think I will retire the other pages in the
>update).
>
>If one of the Chicagoland RVer's would tell me where on Clow airport
you
>guys meet, I will try to make it out there soon. I look forward to
>meeting you all and getting back into the project in the near future.
>Thanks a bunch to everyone again for making this move so easy and
>exciting.
>
>PatK - RV-6A - On the move!
>
>
>
>
Hi Pat,
The Clow RV group meets in the restaurant on the field. The group meets
at about 10:30 till 12 noon every Friday. They have an adverage of 12
to 20 great fellas there.
If I can be of any assistance feel free to contact me. I live about 5
miles from Palos and hang at Lansing Airport with a great bunch of
guys.
Later,
Bob Cornacchia
3626 RoseManor
Markham,IL
708-339-3131
Bcon(at)ix.netcom.com
PS I am building a 6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)iols.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A kit for sale |
Just to expound on the other reply I saw, the spar is match drilled with
the bulkhead that it attaches to. In the case of the regular kits, the
bulkhead is drilled by phlogiston and sent with the wing kit, so any
fuselage kit will work. However, for the quick-build, the bulkhead is
built into the fuselage, so the wing and fuselage have to be ordered as
a unit and are not interchangable with other wings or fuselages.
PatK - RV-6A
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the wing kit had to match the fuse kit
> scott
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Inlet vs outlet air |
<< spoke to Theresa (sp?) Barnard last week, and they are moving out
of the RV supply business. His "Holy Cowls" are no longer available. >>
Are the molds for sale?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Does the 6/6A spar differ from the 3 spar ? >>
Yes, considerably so.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GROBDRIVER(at)aol.com |
Subject: | HS Forward Spar Bend Problem |
Gentlemen, a problem.
Was attching the ribs to the rear HS spar (HS-606, 405 and 608) getting them
drilled into place, etc. Did a dry fit (cabinetmaker lingo) of the forward HS
spar on top of everything and was dismayed to see the 6 degree bend is not
quite enough! When the forward spar is resting on HS 405 and 608, with them
clamped in the correct positions, the tips are higher than the 7 5/8 inches
specified on the HS606 tip rib. I have to press the tip of the forward spar
down on each side about an inch to meet the 606.
Now, George O. taught us that we should not use a rivet to hold parts together
in this way - that the strength is in shear (that right George?) so I would
expect the spar to set right down and touch all ribs, given the 6 degree bend
was done accurately - and I spent enough time setting _that_ up that I think
is was.
I'll keep reading my material and checking the web sites, but <*gulp*> this
doesn't look good.
What say ye?
- Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 Emp
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GROBDRIVER(at)aol.com |
Subject: | HS Forward Spar Bend Followup |
A correction - went back out to the shop to look the situation over again and
I misspoke in my previous note. The forward spar rests on the HS405s and is
about 1/2 inch off the top of the HS608s. The error extends out to the 606s
where it's about the same distance high - maybe a little more.
Anyway, that distance off of the 608s is what makes me think my bends are less
than 6 degrees.
With much hand wringing,
- Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Seeping tank rivet |
Greeting folks,
As a final check for seal integrity of my -8 tanks, I put about 5
gallons of gas in the tanks, and sat them in various attitudes on the
work table. All was fine except for one rivet...on a stiffener of all
places. It seeps fuel slightly....although a "slight" seep is like being
"slightly" pregnant. :)
So, what's the best way to fix it? I'm planning on drilling it out, and
replacing it with a sealed end pop rivet as used to attach the
Z-brackets to the baffle, along with a dab of sealant. Is this the best
way to go about it?
Meanwhile, the wings are done...finally! Now, to sit and wait for the
word from Van; spar modification on the way? Aileron static balance need
a fix as well? Oh well, the Wright's weren't easily daunted...nor will I
be.
Thanks for any input..
Brian Denk
-8 #379
fuselage on the way.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> |
Subject: | Re: I am famous!!! |
Thought I would add a moment to your 15 minutes of fame. I'm sure most
RVers have heard of Dave Barnhart and his amazingly quick RV-4, but I had
the pleasure of him visiting our EAA chapter this week and it was great.
He gave a video presentation developed to show a ladies group what
experimental aviation is all about which was amazing. Beautiful shots of
areas from Alaska to the Bahamas with many RVs in formation having more fun
than anyone should be alowed. We all appreciated your time and good luck
on your next project.
Marcus Cooper
Skybolt flying
RV-6 almost there
----------
> From: David A. Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
>
> That guy said everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame, and I just wanted
to
> let everyone know that mine are on page 13 of the latest RVator.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance, flutter |
> << If we have all these RV's going faster then Van's Vne, how did Van
> detrmine his Vne? Did he test it, or did he calculate it? Are you taking
a
> big risk by exceeding Vne, or is it just a very conservative number? >>
>
> You'd have to ask Van if this was a calculation, but I do not believe so.
It
> is "suppose" to represent the speed to which the aircraft has
successfully
> been tested. It is, however, possible that this number is actually a
number
> that Van felt was realistic(conservative) and that the plane had been
tested
> for a higher speed. I mean, look at the VNE numbers for the RV-4. Now,
I ask
> you,
> "How fast has Dave Ander's had his RV-4, and has he had any difficulties
with
> flutter?" Just a thought.
I hope no one will think that just because Dave has flown "his" Airplane (
which started out as an RV4 but is now much changed ) at well in excess of
the Rv4's Vne that that means it is perfectly safe for them to exceed it
too. Fours are different to 6's are different to 8's and mine will be
different to yours. Flutter can and has occured to the best designed
airplanes. Van has no control over your workmanship and therefore all Rv's
are likely to have a different speed at which problems may occur. This can
be no reflection on the design. With all the Rv's flying, what can be said
is if you stay within the design limits you are unlikely to have a problem,
but once you exceed them you are on your own. Hopefully you will also be
flying on you own too. Brian.H.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Without incurring the wrath of the powers that be, again, it is my opinion
based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have researched
that these props are dangerous and it does not suprise me that Avemco will not
insure them--I would not either. Further, I am glad they have chosen to
eliminate this risk from their portfolio because I do not want to pay the
higher premiums that would be needed to include policies for IVO props. I do
not mean to anger IVO fans--I understand that some folks really like them and
enjoy experimenting with them. Safe flights to all--JR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "m.hanson" <paintbox(at)rconnect.com> |
Subject: | Electric vs manual trim |
This is a message that I posted 6-9-98, but I was somehow knocked off the
list shortly after that and I don't know if there were any responses. My
question was concerning the pros and cons of 'electric' elevator & aileron
trim,and electric flaps. I'm especially interested in your experience with
the reliability of the systems.
If anybody has already sent a response,I apologize for asking again.Thanks!
Marc Hanson
RV-6A HS skins about to be riveted!
paintbox(at)rconnect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
Subject: | Re: $$$ for the NEW LIST??? |
From: | rv6a <rv6a(at)uswest.net> |
Hey Matt,
Did you ever think this thing would get so big? When you and I combined
our lists many years ago when I was still at Ohio State and you started
the official RVlist, we had maybe 25(?) people If I recall properly. Sure
has come a long way. Thanks for keeping it up.
Chris Krieg
**Yes, I'm still slowly working on my RV-6A (plans # 20551). Just ordered
the fuselage kit
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Seeping tank rivet |
>As a final check for seal integrity of my -8 tanks, I put about 5
>gallons of gas in the tanks, and sat them in various attitudes on the
>work table. All was fine except for one rivet...on a stiffener of all
>places. It seeps fuel slightly....although a "slight" seep is like being
>"slightly" pregnant. :)
>
>So, what's the best way to fix it? I'm planning on drilling it out, and
>replacing it with a sealed end pop rivet as used to attach the
>Z-brackets to the baffle, along with a dab of sealant. Is this the best
>way to go about it?
>
Fix it correctly, and be glad that you found this problem prior to paint.
If this was my airplane, I'd go about fixing it as follows:
If the leak is in a bay that you can reach through the inspection plate or
fuel filler, just dab more pro-seal on the rivet.
Assuming the above isn't true:
a) Create a fixture to hold the tank in your drill press, then use a fly
cutter to cut a rather large hole in the rear baffle in the bay that is
leaking. You must be able to get your hand in this hole.
b) Replace the rivet that is leaking (install with pro-seal), check all
other rivets in this bay (pro-seal anything that looks like it might leak in
the future).
c) Clean out all aluminum shavings.
d) Cover the hole created in step (a) with an aluminum plate (.063),
pro-sealed in place and riveted with self-sealing blind rivets.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV-Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: HS Forward Spar Bend Problem |
My tips were off by a whole 1/4", and I had already made a practice spar
so I know I did it right! Always fit things to the skin first, do not
trust the measurements on the plans. I say bend it a little further, but
make sure that you can still make edge dist on all the rivets along the
front spar. Fit the skin on, and play with it until everything matches
up. Then decide what you have to bend or shim to get it right.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
GROBDRIVER(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Gentlemen, a problem.
> Was attching the ribs to the rear HS spar (HS-606, 405 and 608) getting them
> drilled into place, etc. Did a dry fit (cabinetmaker lingo) of the forward HS
> spar on top of everything and was dismayed to see the 6 degree bend is not
> quite enough! When the forward spar is resting on HS 405 and 608, with them
> clamped in the correct positions, the tips are higher than the 7 5/8 inches
> specified on the HS606 tip rib. I have to press the tip of the forward spar
> down on each side about an inch to meet the 606.
>
> Now, George O. taught us that we should not use a rivet to hold parts together
> in this way - that the strength is in shear (that right George?) so I would
> expect the spar to set right down and touch all ribs, given the 6 degree bend
> was done accurately - and I spent enough time setting _that_ up that I think
> is was.
>
> I'll keep reading my material and checking the web sites, but <*gulp*> this
> doesn't look good.
>
> What say ye?
>
> - Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 Emp
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | New item in our catalog . . . |
AC mains ground power supplies just arrived. See at
<http://www.aeroelectric.com/gpu.html>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance |
>
>Regarding RV ailerons, I am curious about any builders that may have balanced
>their ailerons to 100%. What was the amount of weight added to achieve this
>balance, and if so, what method was used to add weight?
>
>RV-8 ailerons are of particular interest to me, as my ailerons seem to be
>trailing edge heavy.
>
>All comments welcome.
>
>Jon Ross RV-80094 Skinning
Jon,
Remember that there is an identical aileron on the other wing that is also
"trailing edge heavy" that is working in opposition. When mechanically
connected via control rods, if one goes down the other must go down, thus
balancing them. I would worry more about making them identical to each
other than perfectly balanced..... IMHO
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
>
>Dear listers,
>i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing kit.
>also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built spars?
>and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8
>thanks
>scott reviere
Scott,
The RV6 wing spar is totally different than the RV8 spar. There are a lot
more pieces to a -6 spar and wing. The -6 spar uses 10 individual
stiffening strips on the spar channel, 5 on top and 5 on bottom, creating a
"lamination" of all the strips to carry the load. There are 2 on the
forward and 3 on the aft side of the spar. Look at your pre-view plans and
you'll know what I mean.
The -8 spar uses 2 individual "step bars", one on the top and one on the
bottom, that start out at the root at full thickness and incrementally get
machined to a smaller thickness as they progress toward the tip. These
"step bars" end about where the fuel tank ends as you progress toward the
tip. They are on the front side of the spar. The -8 spar also features
what is called a "waffle plate" on the aft side of the spar in lieu of the
stiffeners on the aft side of a -6 spar. This is CNC machined out of 1/8"
aluminum sheet.
The Phlogiston spars are very nice and are quite pretty with their gold
anodizing. They are also nearly $900. The spars are not at all hard to
build as they are all pre-drilled. All that is necesary is to finish all
the pieces, prime and rivet. If you've got the cash, go with Phlogiston.
If not, build your own like I did and use the money for a Navaid or something.
Yes, all -8 spars are built by Phlogiston. Personally, I would look
elsewhere for the cause of the -8 crash. I would also, again personally,
not suspect the design of the spar either.
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
Is it Mrs or Miss? I was told it is Bernie's daughter. Any one no for sure,
and what are her props like? Brian
> Jim, I don't have personal experience with them. All the local users I
have
> asked were more than happy with Warnke. The Cafe numbers sure seem good.
It
> was the one I was going to get if I hadn't stumbled into a C/S buy.
> BTW, I see Mrs. Warnke is continueing the business.
> Have a good one!
> Denny - RV-6 finishing
> harje(at)proaxis.com
> Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
> Is it Mrs or Miss? I was told it is Bernie's daughter. Any one no for sure,
> and what are her props like? Brian
I called out there right before Bernie died. His daughter answered the phone.
Apparently his daughter has a big hand in the business. Years ago Bernie
told me ( if I remember correctly ) that he taught his son-in-law how he made
props, then his son-in-law went elsewhere to work. I don't know for sure but
it sounds like his son-in-law is back now. Also she said they would resume
making three blade props. ( Bernie had quit making three blade props ).
I wish them success in the future. I thought Bernie's prices were high but
I got exactly what I wanted without sending it back to get repitched.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | photoman <innovate(at)dallas.net> |
Subject: | Re: Seeping tank rivet |
Be sure to clean that tank out goooood before any
repair work is done!
David
>Fix it correctly, and be glad that you found this problem prior to paint.
>If this was my airplane, I'd go about fixing it as follows:
>
>If the leak is in a bay that you can reach through the inspection plate or
>fuel filler, just dab more pro-seal on the rivet.
>
>Assuming the above isn't true:
>
>a) Create a fixture to hold the tank in your drill press, then use a fly
>cutter to cut a rather large hole in the rear baffle in the bay that is
>leaking. You must be able to get your hand in this hole.
>b) Replace the rivet that is leaking (install with pro-seal), check all
>other rivets in this bay (pro-seal anything that looks like it might leak in
>the future).
>c) Clean out all aluminum shavings.
>d) Cover the hole created in step (a) with an aluminum plate (.063),
>pro-sealed in place and riveted with self-sealing blind rivets.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV-Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Electric vs manual trim |
From: | wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen) |
Marc,
I have electric elevator trim, mechanical aileron trip, and (now)
electric flaps on my RV-6A (1095+ Hrs). This combination has worked out
OK for me. I changed from manual flaps to electric a couple of years ago
because I was tired of having to ask my passengers to lift their left arm
so I could pull the flap handle. The electric flaps are considerably
easier for me to operate. I have yet to have any trim or flap actuation
failures, but am confident that I could get the plane to the ground
safely if any or all these functions failed.
Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV
wstucklen1(at)juno.com
E. Windsor, Ct.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
David,
I'm averaging about 40 per day, or more accuratly from 37 to 60.
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
>Hello everyone,
>I'm new to the list and not getting very many
>letters. How many a day on average? Thanks.
>David
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRoss10612(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance |
<< Remember that there is an identical aileron on the other wing that is also
"trailing edge heavy" that is working in opposition. When mechanically
connected via control rods, if one goes down the other must go down, thus
balancing them. I would worry more about making them identical to each
other than perfectly balanced..... IMHO
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR >>
Jon:
Yes, I agree. However, now we must depaend on a control & linkage system with
zero free play. When some sort of linkage play develops, for whatever reason,
then the static balance is there to minimize the chances of the onset of
flutter.
Jon Ross
RV-80094 fuselage flip
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: HS Forward Spar Bend Problem |
Hi Mike:
One other thing about that front HS spar. Be sure that you are
trial fitting it in your fixture. The plans do not state this, and I
trial fitted mine while on the work bench at first. Went to all the
trouble of making a shim to close a slight gap I had at the tips of the
spar, only to realize when I *did* set the works in the jig that I did
not need the shim. Just a thought.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 Wait'n on the Wing kit
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi guys:
Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you use
to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the
mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets. Does a 4X gun work well? The
pneumatic squeezer that Avery's sells is rated for only up to 1/8th inch
rivets. Is there a larger (read that more expensive :( ) pneumatic
unit out there? The riveting of the spars is the only thing that I am a
bit concerned with, and I need the wisdom of the group to decide the
best way to smash those rivets. Thanks for the input group.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171 wait'n on the wings
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> |
Subject: | Re: I am famous!!! |
All:
"Marcus Cooper" wrote:
>Thought I would add a moment to your 15 minutes of fame. I'm sure most
>RVers have heard of Dave Barnhart and his amazingly quick RV-4, but I had
>the pleasure of him visiting our EAA chapter this week...
The guy with the fast RV-4 is the other Dave, Dave *Anders*.
Best Regards,
Dave Barnhart
rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
jorear(at)mari.net wrote:
> Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise.
> What did you use to rivet the spars?
A five pound mini-sledge hammer, and an Avery-style "C" tool.
Two whacks from the hammer on each rivet worked just fine.
--
--------
Rob Rimbold
rimbold(at)ntr.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
Subject: | Trying to fit the seat ribs on 6A |
My fwd flange (that needs 9-#3 rivets) of the F618 seat ribs almost lines
up with the upper & lower AN-3 bolts through the spar stiffeners ONLY on
the 2- F618's. If I try to go to the next spacing, thats too far. Can I
just leave the top & bottom rivets out & use the 2 bolts as long as I can
get the nuts on?
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Toad <toad(at)favorites.com> |
Subject: | US Tools Comment |
A while back, I posted a response here about my disatifacation with the
quality of some of the tools I bought from US-tools.
After I posted that message here on the list, someone forwarded it to US
Tools or they simply monitor this list.
Well, US Tools emailed me, they were quite concerned about what I had
said. I realized That I was not objective in my oppinion on a few of
thier tools they sell because my oppinion is biased because I am a
Machinist by trade, have been for 24 yrs now, and nothing pisses me off
more than a lower quality drill chuck! But hey, their drill chuck on
their 3/8"ths Drill motor will do the Job and there is no need for a
professional grade chuck for an rv project and they do sell other higher
grade tools outside of their rv-tool kits. I had complaints of simaliar
nature on some of the other tools in the Kit, but my main concern was
with thier clecoes they included. I must admit this is why I bought
their kit in the first place as they include 500 of them. The problem is
they had a bad batch of 3/32 clecoes, the clamping wires spread apart
when you compressed the clecoe to install it, made it near impossible to
use.
Well, they sent me a whole new set of Clecoes! much better ones! at no
charge!
I now must say I am pleased with their services as they do really want
to get you good tools for the price, and if you want a proffesional
grade tool instead, they sell those also.
I am very impressed that they even cared to email me, as I was quite
upset with the clecoes I was not going to bother with them and was going
to replace them from another vendor, I am very glad they have folk
watching. My hat is off to them for the way they handled my situation as
I know that old machinists are a hard lot to please.
Mel Rogers
toad(at)favorites.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance |
<< When some sort of linkage play develops, for whatever reason,
then the static balance is there to minimize the chances of the onset of
flutter. >>
EXCELLENT POINT
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gw <gwhite(at)vaxxine.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A kit for sale |
Terry Mortimore wrote:
> Hi Terry:
What is the price of the empennage and wing kit?
Gary White
Niagara Falls, Ontario
> Hi Doug:
>
> I'm looking to buy a fuselage kit, I just spoke with Bob and he is not
> sure if he wants to sell the kits separately or not.
>
> If there is somebody out there who would like to purchase just the
> Empennage or Wing kits maybe we could swing a deal. I was going to order
> my fuselage kit in the middle of July, so if somebody is interested in
> the next month or so let me know.
>
> I'll be out of town till Monday, Terry
>
> Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A
> 38 Cartier St.
> Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca
> Ontario Canada
> P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | RV6 FP cowl wanted |
RV-listers,
... it seems like my slow building has backed me into a
corner...:^(
I started off with another builder who had an extra FP (the
longer one) cowl. I didn't buy a cowl with my finish kit, and was going to
use his. He ended up moving out of town, and then threw his extra cowl in
the trash!
Plan #2, Steve Barnard came out with his new "Holey Cowl", so I
was going to use this with my O-320, but this needs the prop with the 4
inch extension, since his cowl was designed for the IO-360. So I bought my
Sensenich prop with the 4 inch extension.
Oops... Steve has stopped producing his cowls, and now I am
"Cowl-less in LA" and have a metal prop with expe$ive hardware for a 4 inch
prop extension (have you checked outthe price os Sensenich prop bolts?).
So, does anyone have an older RV6 FP cowl available in the SW
USA? A used one is fine, unlike some RV builders, I have no objection to
glass work...:^)
Any leads would be appreciated.
Gil (I know I should build faster) Alexander
RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd.
... going to experiment with Sterling paint and my HVLP gun on the the
neighbors glass Sabot sailboat this weekend...:^)
PS worst case fix, Van can special order FP cowls. I don't know if
Sensenich will exchange the spacer hardware to let me fit the new, shorter
cowls.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance |
>
><< Remember that there is an identical aileron on the other wing that is also
> "trailing edge heavy" that is working in opposition. When mechanically
> connected via control rods, if one goes down the other must go down, thus
> balancing them. I would worry more about making them identical to each
> other than perfectly balanced..... IMHO
> Jon Elford
> RV6 #25201
> Banks, OR >>
>
This does not work if the aircraft has an anti-symmetrical wing
torsion flutter mode. This is a flutter mode where when one wing is
twisting leading edge up, the other wing is twisting leading edge
down. In this case the two ailerons would be going in opposite
directions, just as the linkage between them would allow.
It is pretty hard to predict the speed that a given design will
flutter. Even the big companies screw it up once in a while. Boeing
lost half the vertical tail on a modified 707 a few years ago. They
then (presumably) did a whole bunch of additional flutter analysis,
and then lost half of the vertical tail again when they redid the
flutter tests. The bottom line is that we as builders do not have
the capability to do a flutter analysis. We are depending on a good
designer to do the analysis and flight testing, and to publish a
valid VNE. Any questions on flutter should really go to Van. I
trust his engineering and integrity. I also hope to do an
instrumented flutter flight test eventually to verify the flutter
damping.
My biggest flutter concern relates to the elevator (and aileron) trim
tab. If the linkage to an unbalanced tab fails, the tab could
trigger flutter on the surface.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (starting wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Engineering Test Pilot (613) 952-4319 (work)
Transport Canada
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: jorear(at)mari.net <jorear(at)mari.net>
Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 8:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: SPAR HELP
>
>Hi guys:
>
> Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you use
>to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the
>mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets.
>
>
>
Jeff, Try the 3-X gun. I tried mine and it worked fine!
Tommy
Closeing 6-A Wings
Ridgetop, Tennessee
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
types="text/plain,text/html";
--=====================_24531078==_.ALT
Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a
policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible.
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
--=====================_24531078==_.ALT
--=====================_24531078==_.ALT--
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
>
>
>
>
> Used the Avery large rivet dimpler/riverter "C"-shaped tool and a three pound
> hammer to set the spar rivets. First spar took almost three hours, second one
> only one hour. Did it on the floor of the hangar alone. Got a great job. No
> sweat. Five deliberate blows from the hammer did the job. A few practice rivets
> to get the feel of it and you're on your way. No need for a big squeezer.
John RV-6A flying
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
In engines without spin-on filter, oil change is recommended at 25 hours or
four months. And WITH spin-on oil filter...........50 hours or four months?
Is this right? This is what my owners manual says. Seems like a long time. I
am so used to a non-filtered engine, and 25 hours is gospel. What is the
concensus?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com> |
Jeff-
I used an arbor press with a 4 pound hammer. It took about 5 whacks to
set each rivet, and they looked fine. It was loaned to me by another RV
builder who is also a structures engineer here at Boeing.
Great way to go.
Rich Z
RV6a
S/N25224
building L tank
> Hi guys:
>
> Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you
> use
> to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the
> mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets. Does a 4X gun work well? The
> pneumatic squeezer that Avery's sells is rated for only up to 1/8th
> inch
> rivets. Is there a larger (read that more expensive :( ) pneumatic
> unit out there? The riveting of the spars is the only thing that I am
> a
> bit concerned with, and I need the wisdom of the group to decide the
> best way to smash those rivets. Thanks for the input group.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A 25171 wait'n on the wings
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ron Fleet" <fleetair(at)wcl.on.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Seeping tank rivet |
Ihad the same thing happen and I just Put som e P R C on the outside and
painted over it you cant see the repair and it dont leak i have been flying
it for 3 years. best of luck ron.
----------
> From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Seeping tank rivet
> Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 10:39 PM
>
>
> Greeting folks,
>
> As a final check for seal integrity of my -8 tanks, I put about 5
> gallons of gas in the tanks, and sat them in various attitudes on the
> work table. All was fine except for one rivet...on a stiffener of all
> places. It seeps fuel slightly....although a "slight" seep is like being
> "slightly" pregnant. :)
>
> So, what's the best way to fix it? I'm planning on drilling it out, and
> replacing it with a sealed end pop rivet as used to attach the
> Z-brackets to the baffle, along with a dab of sealant. Is this the best
> way to go about it?
>
> Meanwhile, the wings are done...finally! Now, to sit and wait for the
> word from Van; spar modification on the way? Aileron static balance need
> a fix as well? Oh well, the Wright's weren't easily daunted...nor will I
> be.
>
> Thanks for any input..
>
> Brian Denk
> -8 #379
> fuselage on the way.
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Brakes Dragging RV6A |
Ref: Dgw 43a, Rev 4 RV6A
After replacing my Cleveland (Parker Hannifin) master cylinder springs
with correct ones from Cleveland, I noted that the right side brake
pedals (both pilot and passenger) still did not spring back to a
fully-extended cylinder stroke =96 in other words, the brakes might
drag.
I found that both right brake cylinders touched the Wd-655R weldment
tube in their last 3/16 inch of their travel to full extension.
I checked a friend=92s right pedal assembly and one of his cylinders
touches, the other clears by a few thousandths.
My proposed fix, plan A:
1) Fill the 3/16 dia hole in the F6117A with JB Weld.
2) Drill a new hole about one hole diameter outboard (away from pedal)
from the original hole.
Plan B:
1) Remake the F6117A=92s with a longer lobe to provide better edge
distance on the relocated hole.
In view of the statement that the "last 0.065" of travel of the master
cylinder shaft releases the pressure from the brake calipers" (RVator
2nd issue, 1998, p15), I urge you to carefully check out the brake
cylinder geometry. Dragging brakes don=92t just cause rapid pad wear =96
they can cause fires and dinged RVs!
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
Barrington, IL
Hannifin)
master cylinder springs with correct ones from Cleveland, I noted that
the right
side brake pedals (both pilot and passenger) still did not spring back
to a
fully-extended cylinder stroke – in other words, the brakes might
cylinders touched
the Wd-655R weldment tube in their last 3/16 inch of their travel to
full
pedal assembly
and one of his cylinders touches, the other clears by a few thousandths.
F6117A with JB
diameter
longer lobe
to provide better edge distance on the relocated
"last
0.065" of travel of the master cylinder shaft releases the pressure
from
the brake calipers" (RVator 2nd issue, 1998, p15), I
urge you to
carefully check out the brake cylinder geometry. Dragging brakes
don’t
just cause rapid pad wear – they can cause fires and dinged
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
A couple years ago when I did my spars. I rented a large table top
squeezer from Vans for $10, It did a great job. That was 410 for a weeks
use.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks CA
>
>Hi guys:
>
> Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you
>use
>to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the
>mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets. Does a 4X gun work well? The
>pneumatic squeezer that Avery's sells is rated for only up to 1/8th
>inch
>rivets. Is there a larger (read that more expensive :( ) pneumatic
>unit out there? The riveting of the spars is the only thing that I am
>a
>bit concerned with, and I need the wisdom of the group to decide the
>best way to smash those rivets. Thanks for the input group.
>Regards,
>Jeff Orear
>RV6A 25171 wait'n on the wings
>Peshtigo, WI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | LeastDrag(at)aol.com |
<< Hello everyone,
I'm new to the list and not getting very many
letters. How many a day on average? Thanks.
David >>
Hello David,
Expect 30 to 80 a day. The list was down for a day or two for an upgrade.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | LeastDrag(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
<< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues
with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on
the Chevy or a standard Lycoming?
Bill - finishing fuselage, RV6A
>>
Hi All,
I heard that Ivoprop was the only composite prop manufacturer still putting
their prop on four cylinder four cycle engines.
I was told that 1% of the Ivoprop props installed on four cylinder four cycle
engines don't work out. However, using the "hub tape" identifies this
situation before any damage occurs to the prop assembly.
This information is for your edification. I am not making an endorsement for,
or against, the Ivoprop prop.
Jim Ayers
LesDrag(at)aol.com
Thousand Oaks, Ca.
RV-3 Maroon Marauder
N47RV LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Magnum High Pitch Electric VP prop
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com> |
Jerry
Thanks for your reply to my info quest and the promise to forward my
problems to anyone you stumble across that may help.
My original note:
Jerry
>
> I was given your address by Edward Cole as the operator of a 200hp
> powered RV.
> If he hasn't told you - here is my problem. I'm co-building an RV-6 over
> here in England and intend fitting a 200hp angle valve IO-360 motor in
> it, turning a Hartzell c/s prop.
>
> Our authorities, whilst happy to clear it with a wooden prop, are
> worried that the structure isn't up to the extra weight of this
> combination. They class the 4 and 6 as similar structure wise.
>
> They will be persuaded though if we can prove that RVs have amassed at
> least 2000hrs in this configuration elsewhere in the known world.
spray or can
be brushed on if required. The spray finish is completely idiot proof
smooth!
By the way, if you are about - UK RV Fly-In at Sibson near Peterborough
on Sunday 19 July 98.
All the best
Jerry Parr
RV-6 G-RVVI
About to fit said motor
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Nick Nafsinger <n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com> |
Subject: | RV clubs / enthuisists |
I'm new to the list and the state of VA. I'm just wondering if anyone
knows of a local RV club in the Hampton Roads / Tidewater area of
Virgina? Thanks!
Nick Nafsinger
Workin' on it.....
n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com
I'm just wondering if anyone knows of a local RV club in the Hampton
Roads /
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Hello listers. I have added a section to my web page with directions to
download and setup the ICQ chat program, as well as a list of RV
builders who are using the program now. The link to the page is:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe/ICQ.htm
Get it while it's hot!
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | Re: Aileron Balance |
>
>My biggest flutter concern relates to the elevator (and aileron) trim
>tab. If the linkage to an unbalanced tab fails, the tab could
>trigger flutter on the surface.
>
>Take care,
>
>Kevin
Kevin has it right here, I have said before in this venue and will say
again, no matter how casual you are about your preflights, be sure you check
the attachment of the trim tab control linkages, because if one of those
comes loose it will be a bad day.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
><< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues
> with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on
> the Chevy or a standard Lycoming?
>
> Bill - finishing fuselage, RV6A
> >>
I live in Clear Lake Iowa about 2 miles from the Warp Drive Plant, and I
know Dale K(I cant spell the rest), the owner/designer of Warp Drive. Dale
told me he would not let me put a Warp Drive on my 4 cylinder LYC because it
would grow "hair at the hub." I will take him at his word.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
>
>
> What did you use to rivet the spars?
Jeff,
Check out the URL below and you will see how I used the Avery C-Frame tool to do
my spars. It is really easy
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5379/wing.html
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993
Pine Junction Colorado
Just put the seat hinges in the wrong way, Oh Well...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ralph Koger <kogrh(at)willinet.net> |
Subject: | Boone, Ia RV day |
The annual RV day is next Saturday June 20th. at the Boone Municipal Airport.
Everyone is WELCOME to share RV-ing. We are looking for you!
If you need more information you may contact me on the RV-list.
Ralph Koger N16RK
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Subject: | Re: Insurancetypes="text/plain,text/html"; |
>
>Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a
>policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible.
>Louis I. Willig
>larywil(at)home.com
>(610) 668-4964
>Philadelphia, PA
>
Scott Smith of SkySmith Intl. is an Insurance broker with a RV program, it
covers you in other peoples RV's and has some other neat features for a fair
price.
http://www.skysmith.com/
is their website, tell him I sent you.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Seeping tank rivet |
From: | tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
Try pulling a slight vacuum on your tank and put some fresh proseal on
the leaking rivet. This should suck the proseal in and seal the leak.
I came up with this idea several years ago as a means of fixing leaking
mooney gas tanks.Someone came out with a kit shortly thereafter to do
just that. I'm glad he did,
since I had no intention of marketing my idea.
Regards,
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
________________________________________________________________________________
<19980524.001450.17174.1.tcastella(at)juno.com>
From: | tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
I have an unused pair of RV-6 wheel pants for sale. These came with my
original
finishing kit, and since I am going to use Van's newest (split
vertically) design, I have
no need for them.
I will accept the best offer I receive.
Tony Castellano
tcastella(at)juno.com
Hopewell Junction, NY
RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig)
________________________________________________________________________________
<< it is my opinion based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others
that I have researched that these props are dangerous >>
Okay, I'm listening with an open mind. I'm totally undecided about a prop.
Exactly what experience have you personally had with IVO? What went wrong?
What was the response by IVO?
Can you state, in detail, a similar litany from "others that I have
researched" ?
Bob,
6QB well under way
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
I am looking for a Val 760 channel radio. If anyone has one they want to
sell, please email me. I'd also be interested in a used King KY96A Com.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Matthew J. Leary" <mjleary(at)elitesys.com> |
Subject: | New RV construction-log website |
I've started a project diary at http://www.elitesys.com/rvdiary/. I hope
it gives someone else even a fraction of the help this list and other
sites have given me.
-Matthew J. Leary - Empennage.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> |
Subject: | Re: I am famous!!! |
Sorry, my bust, we have another member named Dan Barnhart and I am easily
confused. Still congrats on your success and thanks for getting the record
straight, I'd hate to hear from Dave Anders that I praised the wrong guy!
Marcus
RV-6 getting closer
>
> All:
>
> "Marcus Cooper" wrote:
>
> The guy with the fast RV-4 is the other Dave, Dave *Anders*.
>
> Best Regards,
> Dave Barnhart
> rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB
> Flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Subject: | RV-3 Wheels & brake mounting |
I can't get the numbers to add up.
Distance from end of axle to flange is 4.75".
Outside distance from 1/4" spacer to 1/4" spacer is 3.5".
Spacer from flange to 1/4" spacer is supposed to be .75". (This is the
old design where the flange-tube points inboard and ends at the flange
and the bolt is inboard of the flange, with an additional .75" spacer
outboard of the flange.)
Axle thread is 1".
This puts the outside bearing on the thread and leaves only .5" thread
for the axel nut, which is thicker than .5".
According to an old RV-ator (No 17, March '78) the Brake Caliper Mount
mounts on the outside of the Brake mounting flange with the "brake
caliper slide pin tubes" pointing inboard.
Is there any reason not to shorten the (outboard of flange) .75" spacer
to .5" ?
This would move the outboard bearing in onto the un-threaded part of the
axel, the 1/4" spacer on the thread, leaving 3/4" for the axel nut -
sufficient for three threads showing with the nut tightened.
This would also put the brake caliper slide pins further into the tubes
- less stress on the pins - yet enough travel to wear pads completely
down and 1/8" off the disc.
Am I missing something?
My old drawings shows a 1/4" bolt, new drawings shows 5/16" bolt. Which
should I choose?
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com> |
Michael
You are correct on the oil change intervals for a Lycoming.
I look after a fleet of Cessnas for a Flying Club here in England all
with spin-on filters so the oil is changed every 50 hours.
Our UK regultions for 'Public Transport' aircraft which include Flying
Club machines, states that we have to check the aircraft at 50 flying
hours or 62 day intervals. This means that if in winter say, the
aircraft hasn't flown 50 hours inside 2 months then the oil and filter
get changed regardless.
Remember that the oil contains all the combustion by-products and other
nasty corrosive substances which you don't really want inside the
engine. The older the oil, the more crud in it and the worse it is t
doing the lubrication and cooling job it it there for. If the motor is
standing around unused for long periods the damp and condensation mixes
with the oil and degrades its effectiveness almost as much as the in-use
contaminants.
Personally, if I were you, for a few bucks of oil, I would change the
oil every 25 hours even if you don't replace the filter.
On our RV-6 we hope to fit an ADC filter with a removable/washable
filter screen and will then change the oil every 25 hours. This filter
pays for itself over the life of the engine if you work on changing a
spin-on every 50 hours and of course you can check/clean the filter any
time at no extra charge - particularly useful during the early days of a
new engine.
As they say: the oil is the life blood of the engine.
Bad oil, no engine followed by flying a glider!!
Jerry Parr
RV-6, G-RVVI
Engine hanging soon...
Michael wrote:
>In engines without spin-on filter, oil change is recommended at 25
hours or
>four months. And WITH spin-on oil filter...........50 hours or four >months?
>Is this right? This is what my owners manual says. Seems like a long >time. I
>am so used to a non-filtered engine, and 25 hours is gospel. What is >the
>concensus?
>Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Fiberglas Filler |
I have been trying to locate a product called Awl Fair (?), made by US Paint
& Lacquer. It is supposed to be a very good easy to use epoxy type filler,
mixed 1:1.
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvbirdman(at)aol.com |
Listers,
Here is my method for riviting the spars for my RV-6. After tapering the
strips and priming all parts, I ordered a hydraulic shop press from Harbor
Freight for $100.00.
I bolted the spar stiffeners together every few holes and set up using a
roller stand (used for supporting long lumber when running thru a table saw)
to support the spar and enable me to feed the spar thru the press as riviting
progressed. Used a drill bit the same diameter as the recomended thickness of
the shop head and slid it back and forth next to the forming shop head as I
lowered the ram. When I felt the least amount of drag I stopped. This set the
rivit to exact shop head specs. I had drilled the press plate to accept the
cupped rivit set, and also I polished the bottom of the ram prior to use. The
whole process went well, absolute control, no mis-set rivits, no pounding, and
every rivit set exactly the same. Oh to fit the rest of the plane in the press
too! I was very pleased with the result and have 100% confidence in the
spars. The cost of the press is much less than the cost of pre-built spars,
and has come in handy for other things automotive in nature.
Gary Bray
Carmel, Maine
N827GB painting it if prep work is ever done.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: New R410PP (Rudder Brace) |
<3581A683.8FD7F2FC(at)shianet.org>
From: | carowbotham(at)Juno.com (Charles A Rowbotham) |
Bill,
Bends, lightening hole and PP holes to flange done. Needed to make 2
cuts.
$ well spent, thanks to the List - advising R410PP.
Chuck
RV-8AQB
>
>For those who have purchased the *new* R410PP (rudder brace) from
>Van's:
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | ADC 'filter' (non)performance |
<< On our RV-6 we hope to fit an ADC filter with a removable/washable
filter screen and will then change the oil every 25 hours. This filter
pays for itself over the life of the engine if you work on changing a
spin-on every 50 hours and of course you can check/clean the filter any
time at no extra charge - particularly useful during the early days of a
new engine. >>
I saw a comparison sheet about the std screen, the ADC (Oberg), and a std
spin-on. The spin-on outperformed all others in the 30-60 micron range by such
a large margin that the comparison was ludicrous. Keep in mind that the
ADC/Oberg is simply a larger version of the std screen- not much help (in
stopping the particles that actually cause the damage), in other words.
There is a screen available the you can sandwich between the spin-on and its
mounting pad, to stop the larger particles.
BTW- ADC now sells a spin-on adapter system....that might tell you something.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
Subject: | Fly-by Knight interiors |
Has anybody had experience with one of Sam Knight's interiors for an
RV? Quality? Delivery time? Responsiveness to queries?
Please send replies direct to me. (If they are positive, by all means
post to the list if you wish.) I can find customers for Orndorff and
Lauritsen (Cleaveland) interiors, but not Sam Knight.
Peter Bennett
pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Sydney Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
Gary Bray Wrote:
> Listers,
> Here is my method for riviting the spars for my RV-6. After tapering the
> strips and priming all parts, I ordered a hydraulic shop press from
Harbor
> Freight for $100.00.
>----rest of messsage cut----
I ordered and have just received the same press from Harbor Freight and
have the exact same intentions for it's use. Myself and a couple of local
RV builders (Jon Ross & Scott Gesele) discussed the possibilities for the
spar rivets and like Gary we felt that this approach should work very well.
As mentioned it seems like it would be very useful for other riveting work
also, especially areas like the HS spar which would easily fit inside the
press.
I will post to the list when I have done the spar riveting in a few weeks
and let you all know how it worked out but based on Gary's results it
should go well.
Dave Lundquist
RV-6 Wings, going slowly
Stony Brook, Long Island, NY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
Subject: | Re: Brakes Dragging RV6A |
>
>
>
>
> Ref: Dgw 43a, Rev 4 RV6A
>
> After replacing my Cleveland (Parker Hannifin) master cylinder
> springs with correct ones from Cleveland, I noted that the right
> side brake pedals (both pilot and passenger) still did not spring
> back to a fully-extended cylinder stroke =96 in other words, the
> brakes might drag.
>
> I found that both right brake cylinders touched the Wd-655R weldment
> tube in their last 3/16 inch of their travel to full extension. I
> checked a friend=92s right pedal assembly and one of his cylinders
> touches, the other clears by a few thousandths.
My fix was to remove the offending material from the master
cylinders. Doesn't need much filing.
Peter Bennett
Sydney Australia
RV6 tailwheel on, main gear happening
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fly-by Knight interiors |
> Has anybody had experience with one of Sam Knight's interiors for an
> RV? Quality? Delivery time? Responsiveness to queries?
>
> Please send replies direct to me. (If they are positive, by all means
> post to the list if you wish.)
I think a purpose of the list is to share all things RV among other
listers, so we can ALL benefit. Negative reviewer's...PLEASE post to the
list, I myself am wondering about this interior supplier.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | LeastDrag(at)aol.com |
<< Okay, I'm listening with an open mind. I'm totally undecided about a prop.
Exactly what experience have you personally had with IVO? What went wrong?
What was the response by IVO?
Can you state, in detail, a similar litany from "others that I have
researched" ?
Bob,
6QB well under way >>
Hi All,
And from an open mind with experience,
JRwillJR, please identify which Ivoprop you have experience with; the
ULTRLIGHT prop, or the MAGNUM prop.
IMHO, only the Ivoprop MAGNUM prop is applicable to the Lyc/Cont engines
normally used on RV's.
Play fair. Apples to apples.
Jim Ayers
Least Drag(at)aol.com
RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder
LOM M332A engine and Ivoprop MAGNUM prop
with ESMTP id XAA03382;
From: QmaxLLC(at)aol.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:43:20 EDT
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ivoprops
<< it is my opinion based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others
that I have researched that these props are dangerous >>
Okay, I'm listening with an open mind. I'm totally undecided about a prop.
Exactly what experience have you personally had with IVO? What went wrong?
What was the response by IVO?
Can you state, in detail, a similar litany from "others that I have
researched" ?
Bob,
6QB well under way
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Lott, Michael" <Michael.Lott(at)ssc.nasa.gov> |
Am I correct to assume if I get a motor mount from Van's that will fit an
h2ad engine, it will also fit other 0-320's, and 0-360's, if I am lucky
enough to be able to upgrade when it comes time to hang an engine? Thanks.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In |
<< What airport and how many RV's do you expect?
Thanks.. >>
Vance brand airport or better known as Longmont airport (2v2). Usually we see
at least 30 RVs. There are 9 based on the field and several others in the
surrounding area.
Ryan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Carol Knight <cknight(at)rmci.net> |
Subject: | Fly by Knight Interiors |
Kitplane Builders,
As I am also a subscriber to the RV list, I noticed I was the topic of
conversation today.
For those who asked, my interiors can be seen at airshows across the nation.
The owner of PaPa-51 has my interior in his Glasair and P-51 Mustang. Most
of the P-51 Mustangs will have my interior.
The (Skystar, Inc.) factory-built Kitfox and Pulsar all have my interiors as
do most of the private owners of Kitfox.
There should be some of my interiors in the RV-4, RV-6, and RV-8 in
airshows, but I don't know whose will be there. You might ask the owners or
you might be able to match the interiors with the photos I sent out.
As I mentioned before, I have several interior upholstery products for other
models of kitplanes. Samples of fabrics will be provided upon request.
Please indicate what type fabric you are interested in and what color range.
Again, photos are available upon request.
If you have any further questions or comments, please let me know. Phone:
(208) 342-2602 or e-mail: cknight(at)rmci.net
Sincerely,
Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc.
"Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products
Sam Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fiberglas Filler |
Denny,
... my West Marine catalog shows this (Awl-Fair) as a standard product.
Two parts needed, both in qt. size at about $45 each.
This is an old catalog, I'm just going there and will see if they
still sell it.
Catalog sales # 800-538-0775.
...Gil (painting boats this weekend) Alexander
PS let us know how Awl-Fair works out. An epoxy based creamy filler
should be ideal for pin-hole filling in those glass parts... but not good
for the "I want it now" crowd since it has a 24 hr. cure time...:^)
>
>I have been trying to locate a product called Awl Fair (?), made by US Paint
>& Lacquer. It is supposed to be a very good easy to use epoxy type filler,
>mixed 1:1.
>
>Have a good one!
>Denny - RV-6 finishing
>harje(at)proaxis.com
>Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
>
> IMHO, only the Ivoprop MAGNUM prop is applicable to the Lyc/Cont engines
> normally used on RV's.
>
> Play fair. Apples to apples.
A new style IVO Magnum recently failed, in flight, on a Velocity using a
Lycoming
four-banger.
At Oshkosh I will try to get the EAA prop failure report, in an attempt to
finally put this issue to rest. My guess is that on Lycoming four bangers,
judging from my previous research and avoidance of factory reps to come
forth with statistics proving otherwise, will show that a Lycoming
O-320/360 and Magnum mix is a bad one.
Rob (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Carl White" <whiteca(at)email.msn.com> |
Have recently restored '67 Citabria 7ECA to trade for RV8QB or project.
Contact direct for jpg & details. whiteca(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Paranoid control horn question |
Hi Group:
First of all, many thanks to those who responded to my wing spar
riveting question. I now have a couple of options on how to do that.
I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will
accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have
both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with
the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control
horns are not lined up. In other words, one is swept further aft than
the other. I have assured myself that both elevators are spaced the
same from the trailing edge of the HS. At the tip of the control horn
the stagger measures about 3/16 inches at most.
Will this give me headaches further down the road? Other that drilling
the horns so that the elevators are not lined up (something I *don't*
want to do!!), what can be done about it? I have one control horn
drilled, and I am going to wait until I hear from the group before I do
the other one. Thanks for the help.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Subject: | Re: Paranoid control horn question |
> I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will
> accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have
> both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with
> the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control
> horns are not lined up.
Jeff - Mine are not lined up as good as I would like either but unless you are
going to weld up new horns there is no easy cure. I made sure the elevators
matched on the horizontal in trail and drilled the through hole. The same on the
control tube hole. The control stops need to be "jogged" to match the offset
between the horns but the important thing is to make sure that each elevator is
matched to each other and both travel the proper distances in unison.
Hope this helps.
DGM RV-6 engine area
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Paranoid control horn question |
t>
>
>
>I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will
>accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have
>both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with
>the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control
>horns are not lined up. In other words, one is swept further aft than
>the other. I have assured myself that both elevators are spaced the
>same from the trailing edge of the HS. At the tip of the control horn
>the stagger measures about 3/16 inches at most.
>
>Will this give me headaches further down the road? Other that drilling
>the horns so that the elevators are not lined up (something I *don't*
>want to do!!), what can be done about it? I have one control horn
>drilled, and I am going to wait until I hear from the group before I do
>the other one. Thanks for the help.
>
>
>Regards,
>Jeff Orear
>RV6A 25171
>Peshtigo, WI
>
Remember the adage that goes something like: fit the parts to the plane not
to the plans.
As long as there is no binding when the elevators are run from stop to stop
you should drill the hole wherever you need to. I'd suggest you mark where
the errant hole 'wants' to be and then move the elevator up and down. If
the mark shows that the elevator is straight (not warped) then drill it
where you have it. On the other hand if the horn moves all over the place
when you move the elevator then you have a problem with alignment of the
hinge rods.
John Ammeter
ammeterj(at)seanet.com
Seattle WA USA
1974 1/2 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/14/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Jim--we have had this discussion before--regarding my exp. with the IVO and
that of others I have researched--a few cases in person. It is my opinion that
the IVO is not the right prop for 99.99% of RV builders. As you probably
recall--my IVO was on a KFOX. I have also seen the results of a IVO on a 0-320
Midget Mustang. You said that my exp. with the smaller IVO was not relevent--I
said that if an IVO cannot stay together on a 65 horsepower geared engine with
a rubber drive coupling and a reputation for smoothness then how can an IVO
possibly stay together on a big fourbanging direct drive Lyc. I admit I have
not flown an IVO on a RV and I respect your opinion and your obviously good
results--but as I recall you never answered my question---How many different
IVO's have you had on your excellent RV--what problems have you had--why is
there no spinner---do you expect that the average builder would want to be
this experimental with a critical component like a prop. I think not. I had
resolved not to post on this issue again as I really think much of you and do
not wish to offend you are anyone else but when I see folks seriously
considering an IVO I think they need to hear the darkside also. Then they can
make a decision that is not one sided. Safe flying and a fair sky--JR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net> |
Subject: | Light Speed Engineering "Magneto" |
Noted reference to LSE's electronic "magneto" in latest RVAtor. Any
opinions as to whether its worth the almost $1K or not?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charles Woodson <woodson(at)soe.berkeley.edu> |
Subject: | Re: RV-8 empanage kit for sale |
Rick, you have probably sold your kit. If not, I am a little interested.
Best wishes.
Charles Woodson
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~cw
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com> |
Message to all UK (or any of you from wherever in the world if you want
to come!) RV owners, flyers, builders and anyone else who cares:
Sunday 19th July 1998
3rd Annual UK RV Fly-In
Sibson Airfield
Peterborough, England
If you are interested in coming then you are all most welcome. Sibson is
about 100 miles North of London just next to the A1 road.
For further details, especially if you're flying in (we have people
throwing themselves from aeroplanes over the airfield so there is no
overhead join, and no circuit deadside) ring:
UK (0)1832 280289
Jerry Parr
RV-6, G-RVVI
Peterborough, England
Engine etc (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Paranoid control horn question |
MAKE SURE BOTH ELEVATORS ARE ALIGNED AERODYNAMICLY.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN WITH THE BALANCE HORNS LINED UP!
A VERY SLIGHT TWIST IN EITHER OR BOTH WILL CAUSE YOUR
PROBLEM. ALIGN THE CHORD LINES WITH THE HORIZONTAL STAB
AND SEE WHAT YOU HAVE.
RVER273SB CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fiberglas Filler |
>
>Denny,
> ... my West Marine catalog shows this (Awl-Fair) as a standard
product.
>
> Two parts needed, both in qt. size at about $45 each.
>
> This is an old catalog, I'm just going there and will see if they
>still sell it.
Still for sale and listed in the 1998 catalog, about $47 each
component in qts.
Gil (the boat painter) Alexander
>
> Catalog sales # 800-538-0775.
>
> ...Gil (painting boats this weekend) Alexander
>
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | gw <gwhite(at)vaxxine.com> |
Subject: | Trade Siren sailboat 4 RV Kit |
Will trade 17 foot SIREN sailboat and trailer for RV Kit or other
project. Cabin sleeps two and has 3 sails, alcohol stove and motor mount
and running lights. Call Gary 905-262-5822 or gwhite(at)vaxxine.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com> |
Subject: | great pro-sealing secret revealed |
I have found out the easy, fast and effective way to proseal my tanks.
Have an expert help with the pro-sealing. Piece of cake. One tank down.
One to go.
Regards,
Tom Velvick
rv-6a wing tanks
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: great pro-sealing secret revealed |
So what is the secret? QB wings?
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Thomas Velvick wrote:
>
>
> I have found out the easy, fast and effective way to proseal my tanks.
> Have an expert help with the pro-sealing. Piece of cake. One tank down.
> One to go.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Velvick
> rv-6a wing tanks
> Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ivoprops
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:56:47 EDT
Jim--we have had this discussion before--regarding my exp. with the IVO and
that of others I have researched--a few cases in person. It is my opinion that
the IVO is not the right prop for 99.99% of RV builders. As you probably
recall--my IVO was on a KFOX. I have also seen the results of a IVO on a 0-320
Midget Mustang. You said that my exp. with the smaller IVO was not relevent--I
said that if an IVO cannot stay together on a 65 horsepower geared engine with
a rubber drive coupling and a reputation for smoothness then how can an IVO
possibly stay together on a big fourbanging direct drive Lyc. I admit I have
not flown an IVO on a RV and I respect your opinion and your obviously good
results--but as I recall you never answered my question---How many different
IVO's have you had on your excellent RV--what problems have you had--why is
there no spinner---do you expect that the average builder would want to be
this experimental with a critical component like a prop. I think not. I had
resolved not to post on this issue again as I really think much of you and do
not wish to offend you are anyone else but when I see folks seriously
considering an IVO I think they need to hear the darkside also. Then they can
make a decision that is not one sided. Safe flying and a fair sky--JR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Painting fiberglass |
Listers
I'm painting the inside of my -4 and I've come across something I
have not faced yet, painting fiberglass. It's only the top portion
of the rear seat back, but I'm not sure how to prep it.
Any advise?
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee, FL.
Endless details
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
Subject: | Re: great pro-sealing secret revealed |
>
>I have found out the easy, fast and effective way to proseal my tanks.
>Have an expert help with the pro-sealing. Piece of cake. One tank down.
>One to go.
>
I've seen that there are a couple of individuals who advertise to complete
your fuel tanks. What do they charge and what is the quality of their work?
Bill Pagan
-8A tanks & other wing things
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Subject: | Re: engine mount |
Thanks, Rob. I meant if I was lucky enough to upgrade to a
bigger engine. I wasn't knocking h2ad's. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ross Hoffman <rhoff(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-4 Tail Kit - CHEAP! |
I have a RV-4 tail kit with plans for an RV-4 and plans and heavy skins to also
build as a Harmon Rocket. Will sell cheap or trade. Located just south of
Atlanta, GA. e-mail to rhoff(at)mindspring.com Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
It is with the deepest regret that I inform the list that "Rudy, the red nosed
airplane," my pride and joy N929JC, a beautiful and wonderful flying RV-6A was
destroyed this morning when the hangar it was in was blown down by a severe
storm that passed over the airport. In all, 10 airplanes were crushed, most
owned by members of EAA chapter 32. I so loved that plane which just the day
before flew 17 Young Eagle flights. I cannot be without an RV and as soon as
I get the proceeds from the insurance (AVEMCO), I will be a repeat offender.
I will let you know how the insurance claim goes. Interestingly enough, of
all of the planes on which the hangar fell, my RV held up the best. A two
story wall fell on the canopy and left side of the plane. The canopy did not
break. The G meter showed 6.2 positive and 4.5 negative. The left wing did
not break but the force of the wall bent the left main landing gear and the
mount. All of the other planes that had the same amount of debris fall on
them were crushed and crumpled like soda cans. What an incredible machine Van
designed. Looking forward to "Rudy II."
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
Subject: | Re: Death of N929JC |
James
Sorry to hear your bad news. I hope everything goes well with the insurance
and getting back into the air again.
Best regards
Chris
____
Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751
Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz
442 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand
RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com <JamesCone(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 4:25 PM
Subject: RV-List: Death of N929JC
>
>It is with the deepest regret that I inform the list that "Rudy, the red
nosed
>airplane," my pride and joy N929JC, a beautiful and wonderful flying RV-6A
was
>destroyed this morning when the hangar it was in was blown down by a severe
>storm that passed over the airport. In all, 10 airplanes were crushed,
most
>owned by members of EAA chapter 32. I so loved that plane which just the
day
>before flew 17 Young Eagle flights. I cannot be without an RV and as soon
as
>I get the proceeds from the insurance (AVEMCO), I will be a repeat
offender.
>I will let you know how the insurance claim goes. Interestingly enough, of
>all of the planes on which the hangar fell, my RV held up the best. A two
>story wall fell on the canopy and left side of the plane. The canopy did
not
>break. The G meter showed 6.2 positive and 4.5 negative. The left wing
did
>not break but the force of the wall bent the left main landing gear and the
>mount. All of the other planes that had the same amount of debris fall on
>them were crushed and crumpled like soda cans. What an incredible machine
Van
>designed. Looking forward to "Rudy II."
>
>Jim Cone
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)empirenet.com> |
Subject: | Re: Death of N929JC |
Jim,
I am so sorry to hear about your plane - best wishes at getting
airborn again
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: Paranoid control horn question |
Jeff, The most important point is to make sure that the elevators stay in
the same relative plane. My horns staggered about an eighth when the
elevators were held in alignment. I actually had to offset the center
bearing as the tube on one horn was about an eighth too long. I never
thought to check the dimensions until I had trouble mounting the one
elevator and the horn was very tightly riveted on. Anyway, even w/ the
offset, the elevators track well.
Jeff Farrar
RV-8A
Chandler, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: jorear(at)mari.net <jorear(at)mari.net>
Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 12:46 PM
Subject: RV-List: Paranoid control horn question
>
>
>Hi Group:
>
>
>>I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will
>accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have
>both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with
>the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control
>horns are not lined up>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Paranoid control horn question |
<< I have
both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with
the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control
horns are not lined up. >>
Jeff,
Its not uncommon to have the horns offset from one another a slight
amount. But when you align your elevators you need to align the trailing edges
of your elevators not the counterbalances.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au> |
Hi all,
I just got this from the zodiac list that im also subscribet to.
Is this true, and if it is, does anyone know anything about it?
*snip*
>And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit
>purchasers.
*snip*
cheers
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm overhauling a Bendix magneto as part of a major overhaul of my Lycoming
engine. I would like to use the proper bearing grease, but the Bendix Magneto
grease is 34 dollars to buy. Does anyone out there know of a suitable
substitute for the Bendix grease ? I would also like a substitute for Bendix
Breaker Felt Lubricant.
Also, I would like to thank those who recommended I order a set of Lycoming
service documents. I received a box of paper 5 inches high. It included an
index by title and by engine type. I sorted it into applicable Service
Bulletins, Service Instructions, and Service Letters. Now I have three
binders that have the information to fill in my knowledge gap about engine
overhaul and engine operation in general. I would say that owning a set of
these documents is a must for an airplane owner and mechanic.
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings (on hold till I finish an $ overhaul $ on the Colt's engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
G"day Jerry, I live in Albany, South Western Australia. You could say this
country is a bit bigger, like Cairns is 1,847 nautical miles as the crow
flies and their is nothing nautical between here and there ! I don't know
Paul, though I do know a lot of builders over East as most years I go over
to our national "rally". That's near Melbourne, a lot closer, like only 10
flying in a Rv at 150 knots. I have a Thorp T18 and am up to the fuselage
skeleton on jig stage of a n Rv6.Not in a hurry as the T18 is a joy to fly
and just as fast as an RV. We have 2 Rv6's anRv6a and an Rv4 in the town
(23,00 people) plus 3 Rv8's, 3Rv6a and 4 Rv6's under construction.
The usual problem with Rv6's and wood prop is tail heaviness, can't see you
having that problem ! Cheers, Brian
----------
> From: jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com>
> To: rv builders list
> Subject: RV-List: 200hp RV's
> Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 4:59 PM
>
>
> Thanks Brian for the sympathy vote!
>
> It's a funny old thing but I keep hearing of -8 builders on the scrounge
> for cheap engines and props!!
> If we get permission (and we should know soon!) then it will be fun to
> have something a bit different, even if it does mean a fair bit of
> plastic stuff to get stuck into....
>
> On the subject of RV's 'down under' - where are you based? I know
> Australia is a touch bigger than the UK, but I have a mate, Paul
> Salisbury, who emigrated to Cairns a few years back and should have a -4
> flying by now.
>
> Jerry Parr
> RV-6, G-RVVI
> Peterborough, England
> That engine
>
>
> Brian Holman wrote:
>
> You could probably sell your engine- prop combination to a Rv8 builder
> and
> get a new 320 or 360 and prop, get cash back and both be better off.
> Sounds
> like your Dept. of Agrivation is as difficult as the our Australian one
> is.
> Good luck, Brian
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
Subject: | Re: is this true? |
Have you measured your legs lately, I think you might find one is longer
than the other ? Brian
----------
> From: Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au>
> Hi all,
>
> I just got this from the zodiac list that im also subscribet to.
> Is this true, and if it is, does anyone know anything about it?
>
> *snip*
> >And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit
> >purchasers.
> *snip*
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
Subject: | Determining TAS using GPS |
Recently there was a thread regarding the calculation of TAS from a
series of GPS airspeed measurements. I made a comment that it was only
necessary to fly three different legs to collect sufficient information
to calculate TAS.
I have put (.pdf format) a more detailed explanation on my newly
created web page.
http://www.hlos.com.au/~doug.gray/home.html
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
In a message dated 6/13/98 9:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dougr(at)petroblend.com writes:
<< ><< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues
> with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on
> the Chevy or a standard Lycoming? >>
I bought a Warp Drive four blade prop for my Chevy, but I haven't flown it
yet. On a a 6 cylinder, PSRU equipped engine, dynamics are VERY different from
a direct drive four cylinder engine.
I personally would not use either the Warp or Ivo on a direct drive four
cylinder engine - period.
Just my $.02 worth
Regards, Merle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 6/13/98 12:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JRWillJR(at)aol.com
writes:
<< it is my opinion
based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have researched
that these props are dangerous and it does not suprise me that Avemco will
not
insure them--I would not either. >>
Did you use this prop on a Lycoming ???
Regards, Merle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Re: is this true? |
>
>*snip*
>>And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit
>>purchasers.
> *snip*
>
>cheers
>Todd
Of course it is Todd. Van is just that way!
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andy Rice <arice(at)ramaker.com> |
Although I'm not yet building my 8 (I'm being frugal and educating
myself in all possible ways first). I rarely make contributions to the
list.... But, this is something I feel strongly about. Currently I fly
a Challenger from Quad City Ultralights. We have had only bad
experiences with Ivoprops, specifically coming apart in flight. If you
have ever met the people who makes these, I have at Oshkosh and Sun and
Fun, you would never purchase anything from them. They were dirtballs.
I have heard this from many people...no one has been happy with their
work (that I'm aware of). I'm not sure if there is anything suitable,
but we have been using Warp Drive with great success with great factory
support.
Thanks,
Andy Rice
Reviewing Preview Plans, Building Videos, and RVAtor
>
> In a message dated 6/13/98 12:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JRWillJR(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
> << it is my opinion
> based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have
> researched
> that these props are dangerous and it does not suprise me that Avemco
> will
> not
> insure them--I would not either. >>
>
> Did you use this prop on a Lycoming ???
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Merle--you building a RV now--great! No the prop was not on a Lyc--you know
my thought on the IVO--nuff said. How are you doing--going to get ot Oshkosh
this year?JR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Rudder Cable Attach |
I have run my cables for the rudder, and after connecting to the horn, the
distance between the rudder pedals and the cables is about 6". Should the
splice plates be this long? It seems like they should be more like 1
1/2-2" long...
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Andy Rice <arice(at)ramaker.com> |
I believe the guys from Kolb tested an Ivo prop, but first mounted some
sort of plate on the fuselage (under prop), so if it came off, it
wouldn't tear the empennage off.
Andy Rice
Reviewing Preview Plans, Building Videos, and RVAtor
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "A. Reichert" <alan(at)mattress.atww.org> |
Subject: | Re: is this true? |
No. Someone obviously missed the point of that message, and took it out
of context. Did you get the *whole* message, or just this part?
- Alan
On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Todd Lattimer wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I just got this from the zodiac list that im also subscribet to.
> Is this true, and if it is, does anyone know anything about it?
>
> *snip*
> >And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit
> >purchasers.
> *snip*
>
> cheers
> Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Re: is this true? |
I think they should make this retroactive to all RV buyers in within the
last 25 years, so we can all have free Lycomings!
Paul
>
>>
>>*snip*
>>>And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit
>>>purchasers.
>> *snip*
>>
>>cheers
>>Todd
>
> Of course it is Todd. Van is just that way!
>Have a good one!
>Denny - RV-6 finishing
>harje(at)proaxis.com
>Lebanon, OR
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Kevin Shelton <k.j.shelton(at)larc.nasa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: RV clubs / enthuisists |
>
>I'm new to the list and the state of VA. I'm just wondering if anyone
>knows of a local RV club in the Hampton Roads / Tidewater area of
>Virgina? Thanks!
>
>Nick Nafsinger
>Workin' on it.....
>n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com
>
>I'm just wondering if anyone knows of a local RV club in the Hampton
>Roads /
>
I don't know of any RV clubs here in Hampton Roads, but I know of several
6A's and an 8 being built. I also know of a 4 that is flying and there is
also a new member in our EA Ch156 that is building a Quick Build RV6A.
Check out our chapter at http://members.aol.com/eaa156
Maybe we should start a club.
RV-8 wanna be builder
PA28 N4852L
Kevin Shelton
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>
>In engines without spin-on filter, oil change is recommended at 25 hours or
>four months. And WITH spin-on oil filter...........50 hours or four months?
>Is this right? This is what my owners manual says. Seems like a long time.
I
>am so used to a non-filtered engine, and 25 hours is gospel. What is the
>concensus?
>
>Michael
>
This is the textbook advice for oil change intervals and is pretty widely
accepted as the gospel. There is a little more to it than that....
Editorial starts here:
The pink panther has a 160 hp 320 FI without a filter. It has 270 SMOH. I
analyze every change. I have been running about 30-35 hrs. I fly about 15
hrs per month, more this time of year, and I have only added one quart of
oil to it since I bought it (160hrs and that wasn't really needed) My metals
on the analysis are consistently low.
Some important factors to consider if regarding oil drains intervals are:
Where do you live?
How much do you fly?
Do you analyze?
How much oil do you use?
Where is the oil you use going?
Do you have a filter?
How hot does your engine run?
How high does your oil temp get?
Lets discuss these individually.
Where do you live? if you live in a high humidity area or where the day to
night temps vary greatly with high humidity your engine will make water. If
you routinely find drops of water on your dipstick when you pull it out,
don't push drain intervals. If on the other hand you live in AZ and the
humidity is nearly zero your oil will last longer.
How much do you fly? If you fly a lot and regularly your oil the water that
your engine makes gets cooked out often and the number of days between
drains will be less. Most would agree that if an engine is run at all, the
oil should be changed at least 3 time per year and 4 would be better,
without regard for hours at all. This is especially true if you live in the
North or on the Coast as described above.
Do you analyze? Used oil analysis is a tremendous tool to give you some
more insight into what might be happening in you engine. Oil analysis will
not predict all failures, however very often it will give you warning signs
that something is going wrong before it actually does. If you use oil
analysis consistently and have a history on your engine you can use it to
safely extend your drain interval.
How much oil do you use? And where does it go? If your engine uses oil and
you add a quart every 10 hrs, your oil supply is being "sweetened" by the
fresh oil you add and this might make it possible to extend your drain. If
the oil you are using is leaking. If your engine is burning that oil then
the chances are that the same route that allows the oil out of the crankcase
is letting contaminates in to the crankcase and all the harmful combustion
by products that come with it. If on the other hand it is just running out
the blower seal or turbo bearings the continuous supply of fresh oil will
mean you can again safely extend your drain.
Do you have a filter? Obviously the filter removes particulate contaminants
down to about 10 microns. This will help prevent wear in your engine and
keep you oil cleaner longer. The screen serves almost no function other
than to catch parts large enough to have part #s visible so when you check
it you will know something is wrong. Hence it is very important that if you
have a filter you also have a filter cutter so you can make sure there are
none of those part # size parts in your filter.
How hot does your engine run? This question is about heat. If you have an
extremely tightly cowled airplane that runs very high CHT's and a very
effective oil cooler you could be burning up your oil and still have normal
oil temps. Temperature accelerated oxidation. For every 10 degrees of oil
temp above 210 oxidation rates double. Typical oil temp gauges measure the
temperature of the oil being returned to the engine. That should be the
COOLEST point in the system. if you are running 210 degrees there, you can
bet the oil temps around the valve guides are far in excess of that!
Especially if you get greedy with the mixture lever....
How high does you oil temp run? This question is about not enough heat. If
you don't get your oil temp up to 180 you will not effectively boil off the
water that is formed by condensation. Shell had an excellent aircraft ad
campaign recently about the importance of not running with your oil temp too
low. Water when in the presence of combustion by-products will make acids.
This acids are corrosive and destructive and the reason why if your engine
runs at all the oil should still be changed regularly by the calendar,
without regard for hours.
Now that you are totally confused let me finish by saying whether it is a
car, truck or an airplane, the hardest engine to lubricate is the one that
seldom runs and when it does runs for short times. These engines should be
serviced by the calendar not the odometer or hobbs timer. If you fly a lot
and change oil regularly you will not have oil related problems.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
-
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Subject: | Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure |
Later Bonanzas use pressure systems. The pump moves air thru the instruments
one way or the other.
hal
>
> The "P" is for pressure and the "V" is for vacuum. Some equipment uses
> pressure to spin the gyros (most notably turbine based stuff) and almost
> every GA type uses vacuum.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Subject: | RV clubs / enthuisists |
I'm a ways away from Hampton Roads, but I am building a 6A in Roanoke,
VA, there is also a local (Bill Boyd) who just got his 6A flying. He is
near Fincastle (that's close to Roanoke).
*************************************************
* Gary Fesenbek
*
* Meridium Inc.
*
* (540) 344-9205 x112
*
* gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
*
* http://www.meridium.com
*
*************************************************
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Shelton [SMTP:k.j.shelton(at)larc.nasa.gov]
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 12:52 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV clubs / enthuisists
>
>
>
>
> >
> >I'm new to the list and the state of VA. I'm just wondering if
> anyone
> >knows of a local RV club in the Hampton Roads / Tidewater area of
> >Virgina? Thanks!
> >
> >Nick Nafsinger
> >Workin' on it.....
> >n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com
> >
> >I'm just wondering if anyone knows of a local RV club in the Hampton
> >Roads /
> >
>
> I don't know of any RV clubs here in Hampton Roads, but I know of
> several
> 6A's and an 8 being built. I also know of a 4 that is flying and there
> is
> also a new member in our EA Ch156 that is building a Quick Build RV6A.
> Check out our chapter at http://members.aol.com/eaa156
> Maybe we should start a club.
>
> RV-8 wanna be builder
> PA28 N4852L
> Kevin Shelton
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
Check the archives. Many with *NO* actual experience have a lot to say on both
sides of the issue. There are lots of emotional outbursts, too.
Weight. Brodix heads will add about $1600 to cost and cut weight about forty
pounds. BAP claims gross wt of 1156 with iron heads. About the same as a very
light O-320 with a small passenger. With a non-stock cam you might have 235 hp.
hal
> Has anyone had actual experience with Belted Air Power's Chevy V6
> installation for the RV6A? I have talked to them at length, and they
> sound pretty good at face value. I know Van's attitude about
> non-Lycoming engines, but at those prices.............!! The Chevy V6
> puts out about 180-200 HP in the range of 4400 rpm, which is about the
> right speed for the PSRU that BAP sells. One issue with the Chev is
> weight: but that could be offset with aftermarket aluminum heads (Brodix
> makes heads that fit this rpm range).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
Rob wrote:
> I spoke to a test pilot involved with the project this past weekend, he
> informed me the PSRU
> belt has shredded a couple of times in flight, one occurence resulting in
> an off-field landing. If this is true, it makes me feel better about my
> engine decision.
That may be a big "if". Is the test pilot of last year still with the firm?
How did he change from ultra positive as any used car salesman to ultra negative
so quickly?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rob Reece <reece(at)rt66.com> |
Doug-
Thanks for the great posting and great information. Where can I get a copy
of the Shell info?
>Shell had an excellent aircraft ad
>campaign recently about the importance of not running with your oil temp too
>low.
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
(Starting Spar Mod)
Rob Reece
Microcosm Manager - Rocket Engine Test Site (RTS),
& Scorpius Launch Coordinator/Liaison Engineer
Phone: (505) 835-5716
Fax: (505) 835-5714/5680
Email: reece(at)rt66.com
Microcosm Inc.
c/o Energetic Materials Research & Testing Center
Mail Station, New Mexico Institute of Mining Technology
Socorro, NM 87801
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark J Reisdorfer" <mreisdorfer(at)ipapilot.org> |
Subject: | Re: Death of N929JC |
Jim,
>
>It is with the deepest regret that I inform the list that "Rudy, the red
nosed
>airplane," my pride and joy N929JC, a beautiful and wonderful flying RV-6A
was
>destroyed .....>
Very sorry to hear about your bird. You and your lovely bride gave my wife
and myself a ride back to the airport after the banquet at Oshkosh last
year. I had a friend who had recently finished a complete rebuild of a
Stearman and had the same misfortune.
Good luck with the rebuild,
Mark Reisdorfer
RV8 80020
Floyds Knobs, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | William Fletcher <wfletcher(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | St. George Utah Builders |
Im wanting to know if there is any builders in the St. George, Utah
area. You can email me off the list at wfletcher(at)worldnet.att.net
Thanks Bill Fletcher
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
>
> That may be a big "if". Is the test pilot of last year still with the
firm?
> How did he change from ultra positive as any used car salesman to ultra
negative
> so quickly?
Hal,
Like you posted earlier, there's lots of emotion and misinformation posted
on this subject...kinda' like those unprimered quickbuilds .
To address your questions, I know the former test pilot to be a credible
person so I tend to believe him about the PSRU failures. I can't help you
on the person who changed from ultra positive to ultra negative, or did so
quickly, or was at some time a used car salesmen...don't know him or her.
Rob (RV-6Q, Socal).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Subject: | F-618 seat rib to F604(6A) |
1> My fwd flange (that needs 9-#3 rivets) almost lines
up with the upper
& lower AN-3 bolts through the spar stiffeners ONLY on
the 2- F618's. If
I try to go to the next spacing, thats too far. Can I
just leave the top
& bottom rivets out & use the 2 bolts as long as I can
get the nuts on?
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~
donspawn(at)juno.com
Dan,
I think I did exactly what you are suggesting.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, skinning fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
Subject: | Rare earth magnets |
I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium
magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of
debris that always float around the engine in the oil.
I've got a couple of (perhaps dumb) questions for anyone who has had
experience with these.
1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on
the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words
can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal?
2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little
buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass
(about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away?
Thanks for your help.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Attach |
Don"t know for sure but on my 4 this was made up for
by the adjustment straps. Two each side with multiple
holes in them. Mine were about 6 in long
RVer273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GLOMBARD <gLombard(at)empire.net> |
Subject: | Flutter mechanics |
I have been watching the aileron counterbalance discussion and thought
that It might be helpful discuss some flutter mechanics. I am an
aerospace engineer and work with flight dynamics but not specifically
with flutter problems so I am not a flutter expert. If there are flutter
experts out there feel free to correct me or elaborate and I apologize if
I don't have the terminology correct. Hopefully this will be helpful.
It is not enough information to do any type of analysis but may at least
help with mental picture of how flutter works.
I'd like to put my opinion of the bottom line first. I agree
with the earlier comments about the danger of play in the control system
or trim system and about the difficulty in predicting the speeds when
flutter will occur. The ultimate confirmation of flutter resistance in a
design is testing. All of the RV's have presumably been tested up to
their Vne's. If you are planning on exceeding this speed then you should
probably talk to the designer or one of the other guys who have done it.
As mentioned in earlier postings, flutter may not be the only reason the
Vne is what it is. If you intend to keep the plane within its design
envelope, why add the weight when you don't need it?
Let's start with static stability and balance. While static
stability is not necessarily an indicator of dynamic stability it can
usually be assumed that if it is not statically stable it won't be
dynamically stable either. Statically speaking, it is not the balance
relative to the hinge that is of primary concern but the center of
gravity (CG) of the surface relative to its aerodynamic center of
pressure (CP). The CG relative to the hinge line can become more
important once the flutter starts but static stability is a better
indicator of whether it will start or not. The surface is statically
stable about its CG if the CG is forward of the CP. The more forward the
CG the more stable it is. From this point of view it would be good to
have the CG forward of the hinge but there are other factors to consider.
The fact that one aileron is balanced by the other really doesn't affect
this. I don't know where the CP on the aileron is but usually it is
probably on the forward half, maybe very close to the leading edge.
Also, we know that it is behind the hinge on RV's because the controls
would be unstable otherwise. (I say "on RV's because it is possible to
design a control surface with a center of pressure forward of the hinge
line. Not usually a good idea.) It is likely to vary with the angle of
attack of the wing and the aileron itself. So, given this much
information, a 100% balanced aileron will insure that the CG is in front
of the center of pressure but 100% balance is not necessarily required to
achieve this.
So why are the elevators 100% balanced? I don't know the whole
answer but in looking at them, one possible reason jumps out. The tips
extend far forward of the hinge line. The CP of this portion of the
surface is well forward of the hinge line, bringing the CP of the whole
surface forward. This is usually done intentionally to reduce stick
forces but the result may be a need for more counter weight.
On to dynamics. Static instability of the surface itself is not
necessarily enough to produce flutter because the hinge will apply
stabilizing forces. The problem with static instability is that it
significantly increases the hinge forces required to keep it stable. If
the supporting structure is stiff enough to support these loads without
significant flexing then counterbalancing may not be required. There are
a lot of RV's out there with unbalanced rudders and I'm not sure but I
don't think the -3 elevators are balanced. Flutter becomes a problem
when an "aerodynamic natural frequency" gets close to a structural
natural frequency.
For example, an aileron and its control linkage have a natural
frequency determined by the elastic properties (ie. spring rate) of the
control linkage and the inertia of the aileron. The stiffer the spring
and the lower the inertia the higher the natural frequency. The
AERODYNAMIC natural frequency is determined by the inertia and the rate
of increase of aerodynamic force with aileron displacement. In this case
the aerodynamic forces are acting like a spring which tries to keep the
aileron centered. Obviously the aerodynamic forces increase with speed.
Since the inertia remains constant, the aerodynamic natural frequency
increases with speed.
At some point, the aerodynamic natural frequency may approach the
natural frequency of the control linkage and aileron. This is when
flutter is likely to occur. It can happen to any elasticly constrainted
flight surface. Therefore it is desireable to keep all of the structural
natural frequencies higher than their respective aerodynamic frequencies
will ever be within the design flight envelope. This is done by
increasing the spring rate or the stiffeness of the system. Decreasing
the mass will help too but then the aerodynamic frequency may increase as
well and the object here is to keep the aerodynamic natural frequency
lower than the structural natural frequencies.
Something to consider is that when the natural frequencies start
to approach each other, some disturbance is required to start the
flutter. By the time you experience this disturbance you could be well
above the flutter speed and the time it takes to slow down after flutter
starts might be too long.
If there is play in the controls then the spring rate of the
system is near zero and the natural frequency is very low so flutter is
likely at much lower speeds. Part of the difficulty in determing when
flutter will occur is the fact that there are so many modes of vibration
present that it is extremely difficult to determine what all of the
natural frequencies are. An isolated control surface, assumed to be
rigid is a very simple case, add the various modes of flexing in the
wing, the aileron itself, the controls etc., the problem becomes
difficult. Add to this the fact that the airflow is affected by the
oscillating surfaces and the problem becomes very difficult. Analysis of
unsteady airflow is still a cutting edge technology.
All of this discussion assumes that the airflow is steady before
the fluttering starts. Flutter can also be induced by unsteady
oscillating flow conditions. You may have felt this when driving behind
a trailer truck, the car gets pushed side to side in the unsteady wake of
the truck. It can be much higher frequency than that. I have unsteady
flow coming off the windshield of my motorcycle. If I put my head in
just the right spot it sounds and feels like someone is doing a drum roll
on my helmet. Unsteady flow also has a frequency which varies with speed
and when it matches a structural natural frequency..... I suspect
however, that the flow over an intact, properly constructed RV is steady
with the possible exception of the prop wake or if the wing is stalling,
so this is probably not much of a concern for us. Unsteady flow can be a
significant concern for transonic aircraft because shock waves have a
tendency to be unstable in this flight regime. Obviously(?) this
shouldn't be a problem for us. I have heard of shock waves forming on
some aerodynamic bodies at speeds as low a Mach 0.5 or about 330 kts
true, so its not that far from being worth our consideration.
Some additional comments on balancing. Once a surface starts
fluttering it can induce flutter in adjacent surfaces in the same way an
unbalanced tire starts the car shaking. One advantage to balancing the
control surface at the hinge line is that it will minimize the forces
translated into the wing. Keep in mind however that it is impossible to
balance it at the hinge line because the hinge is at the bottom of the
surface. The CG must therefore always be above it. In the case of an
unbalanced rotating body, what matters is how much mass and the CG's
absolute distance from the center of rotation, not the direction from
the CG to the center or rotation. Although I think it is unlikely in
this case, adding weight could make this part of the problem worse by
increasing the mass without proportionally moving the CG closer to the
hinge line.
For a good mental picture of the flutter problem, think of a car
pulling a trailer. The hitch is like the aileron hinge, the trailer
wheels are the center of pressure. What happens if something pushes the
trailer sideways a little as you are driving down the highway? The
wheels skid sideways a little and produce a force sideways on the trailer
similar to the aerodynamic force on the aileron trying to return it to
center. As the trailer returns to center it may overshoot a little and
fish tail a couple of times before it settles down (damps out). The rate
at which it fish tails is analagous to its aerodynamic natural frequency.
If the trailer is loaded such that the center of gravity is forward of
the wheels then it is "aerodynamically stable". You could probably
unhitch it and it would travel a relatively straight line down the road.
I have seen a semi trailer do this when it detached from the tracter on
the highway. Really. It didn't even change lanes! In this situation very
little side force is required by the hitch to keep the trailer tracking
straight.
If, on the other, the trailer is loaded with the center of
gravity aft of the wheels, and you unhitch it at 60 mph it will likely
execute a ground loop. This situation requires the hitch to react large
side forces to keep the trailer tracking straight. A friend of mine was
too lazy to reload a U-HAUL full of furniture when it turned out that the
center of gravity was behind the wheels. When I, I mean he, reached
about 60 mph the natural frequency of the trailer matched a natural
frequency in the car's or the trailer's suspension and the result was
fish tailing to the point of the back wheels of the car skidding
sideways. His "wing" was "fluttering". In this case we know where the
"CP" so it is easy to ensure that the CG is in front of it. Note that
the CG does not have to be at the hitch to prevent trailer flutter.
If you are considering adding weight to balance the ailerons, try
this first. I have not done it. Figure out where the CG of the aileron
is relative to the hinge line. I suspect it is very close, even if it is
not balanced. If it is very close to the hinge line then it is most
likely in front of the CP. I'm afraid I can't tell you how close is
close enough but the plane has been tested. Where it is is close enough
for below Vne. Consider also that the thicker skin of the -8 aileron
will increase the stiffeness and natural frequency of the flexing and
twisting mode in the aileron itself. I don't know if the -8 wings are
stiffer than the others or not but if they are lighter, they may be MORE
resistant to flutter originating in the aileron.
Greg Lombard - RV-8 drilling ribs to spars
glombard(at)empire.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Subject: | RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim strip |
Listers,
I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip in
the rear window. I tried it tonight and found out it's gonna be a mess
and time consuming for one person to do. I also figure it's a great way
for a one person operation to cause a crack in the canopy. Have any
of you used some sort of washer, etc instead of the strip? The only
problem I see with this is that one can see the sealer; but, if one puts
enough sealer on the plexi, that should spread uniformly under the plexi
and still look pretty good.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Stopped until I get an answer)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Rare earth magnets |
I would at least expect yoy to have compass problems!
In a tube and fabric airplane, even the steel tubing
causes problems. RVer273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Brogley <mikeb(at)lsil.com> |
Subject: | Re: is this true? |
Yeah right.
"Conicidentally, Van's announced a $20,000 price increase for the
finishing kit on all models."
--
Mike Brogley
RV-8 sn80241
San Jose, CA USA
mikeb(at)lsil.com
> Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:33:50
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: is this true?
>
>
> I think they should make this retroactive to all RV buyers in within
the
> last 25 years, so we can all have free Lycomings!
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> >
> >>
> >>*snip*
> >>>And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500
kit
> >>>purchasers.
> >> *snip*
> >>
> >>cheers
> >>Todd
> >
> > Of course it is Todd. Van is just that way!
> >Have a good one!
> >Denny - RV-6 finishing
> >harje(at)proaxis.com
> >Lebanon, OR
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GLOMBARD <gLombard(at)empire.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rare earth magnets |
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com wrote:
>
>
> I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium
> magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of
> debris that always float around the engine in the oil.
> can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal?
> I'm not sure if these are the same as I was recently shown at work but it
sounds like they might be. The ones we were using at work would shatter
to dust with a light tap of a hammer or if dropped on a hard surface. It
was causing assembly problems in the shop. They were able to press fit
them with an arbor press though.
Also, iron magnets tend to loose their power if they are heated as can
happen with grinding or machining. I don't know if these would.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rare earth magnets |
-----Original Message-----
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 5:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Rare earth magnets
>
>I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium
>magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of
>debris that always float around the engine in the oil.
>
>I've got a couple of (perhaps dumb) questions for anyone who has had
>experience with these.
>
>1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on
>the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words
>can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal?
Grinding is likely to ruin the magnetic properties as you will heat the
metal too much (beyond the Curie teperature). Cabide mill cutter probably
ok but I would not recommend it.
>
>2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little
>buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass
>(about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away?
Mags don't mind a magnetic field but the magnet's field at 2 1/2 inches will
be hundreds of times stronger than the earth's field -- BIG PROBLEM!
>
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
Barrington, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim strip |
Jim Sears wrote:
> I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip in
> the rear window.
Jim - I am at that point with mine too and am doing it by myself without any
difficulty. I used three strips per side. The only grief I gave my self was to
drill the holes in the strips to the fuselage skin instead of the plexi-glass.(The
thickness of the plexi-glass changes the hole to hole distances). You will need
to
drill one hole in the strip and then coleco the strip to the inside of the
plex-glass. Side clamp the strip the the window and drill through the window holes
to locate the holes on the strip. A bit of masking tape on the side clamp jaws
will save the window from scratches. I used the fuselage skin to mark the edge
shape and then used the hole marking in the strip to find the final with of the
strip. The strip ended up about 5/8" wide. I 'stacked' the strips where they join
at the end rivets so as to be shingled from front to rear. The end result looks
great. Now I just need the patience to clean and paint the interior before
permanently installing the rear window.
Hope this helps.
DGM - RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rare earth magnets |
>
>I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium
>magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of
>debris that always float around the engine in the oil.
>
>I've got a couple of (perhaps dumb) questions for anyone who has had
>experience with these.
>
>1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on
>the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words
>can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal?
these are VERY brittle . . . they can be ground but it's not
a pretty sight. Suggest you use them as is . . . They do grip
the outside of the oil filter very tightly and are not likely
to move around much.
>2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little
>buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass
>(about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away?
Put a ring of magnets around the filter . . . takes 11 or 12 of the
ones I used to stock. Stick them on in opposite polarities as
they progress around the periphery of the filter. Then strap around
the outside with a strip of roof flashing . . . about an inch wide
and long enough to go around about 3 times. Hold the whole thing
in place with a big hose clamp.
The opposing polarities combined with the field conduction
effects of the outter ring will prevent problems with compass.
The amount of "stuff" you'll find stuck to the inside of
the filter is significant. What this means in terms of
engine life . . . dunno, but it sure can't hurt.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Chris Willemssen" <cwillems(at)isd.net> |
Subject: | RVList server failure? |
Sorry for this inconvenient message--but I have gotten no list action
lately, and can not log into Matronics.com. Does anyone know what the
deal is? Please e-mail me off-list (cwillems(at)isd.com) and give me the
scoop. Thanks
Does
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Robert Bristol" <bbristol(at)intranet.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder Cable Attach |
Paul,
On my RV6A the attach brackets are just under 2 inches long.
Bob bbristol(at)intranet.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 10:37 AM
Subject: RV-List: Rudder Cable Attach
>
>I have run my cables for the rudder, and after connecting to the horn, the
>distance between the rudder pedals and the cables is about 6". Should the
>splice plates be this long? It seems like they should be more like 1
>1/2-2" long...
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>Mounting empennage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Light Speed Engineering "Magneto" |
The unit is a CDI,(capacitance discharge ignition) system, not a mag.
I installed one in my 6A during construction.
Advantages:
1) Increased reliability, (mags WILL fail eventually)
2) better fuel economy
2) Senses manifold pressure and advances timing as you climb to higher
altitudes; l eliminates detonation.
3) much more powerful spark, easy starting
I've only got 32 hours on mine, but so far it has worked great.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Death of N929JC |
So very sorry to hear the bad news; must be tough going.
Mine is 75 miles away at the paint shop right now and I am nervous as hell.
(So Cal earthquakes, fires, mud slides etc).
Best of luck to you in our new project.
Walt.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au> |
Subject: | large pilot needs advice |
Hi All,
Sorry to bother you all with a question that has probably been asked half a
hundred times before but i think it's a kind of important thing for me to ask.
I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of
building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the
thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems?
I have read through the archives and seen a few people ask similar
questions and the standard reply was you can lower the height of the seat
when your building. This however isnt an option for me as i live in
Australia and kit planes must be built *exactly* to the specs in the kit
with no deviations at all. (there are ways around this, but dealing with
C.A.S.A and getting aprovals is like shi#*@ing gravel through a funnel)
Basically i need to know that i will fit into the beast and remain
comfortable when i'm up in the air.
Secondly, are there any builders in far Northern New South wales on the
list that I could get in touch with to talk to?
cheers
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Rudder & Elevator leading edges |
Empennage builders,
Someone posted a problem about getting the seams of the rud & elev
leading edges to lay flat after they are bent & riveted. I always
appreciate other builder's helpful hints, so I thought I would pass on
something I tried that made the skins lay down nicely.
1. Use the edge tool to put the slight bend on the edge of the skin
before you start bending with the pipe(just easier to do it now
before it's bent).
2. I found it easier to bend one section at a time with a short 3/4"
pipe than trying to do all three sections at one time. Just get
the skins rounded over and then do the final molding by hand.
3. When the skins are curved about how you want them, take a 3/8"
wooden dowel and hold it at the edge that was bent with the edge
tool. Squeezing it between your fingers and thumb, curl the edge a
little more around the dowel. This makes the edge bend down a little
more and rounds it so that it really fits the curve of the skin.
Cleco together and check to see how the edges are laying down. If
you're not satisfied, un-cleco and bend some more until it meets you
liking. I didn't use the 3/8" dowel on the rudder and I can tell the
difference in fit. The elevators look a lot nicer.
Hope this helps.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mark Graf <markgraf(at)sprintmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim strip |
Jim Sears wrote:
>
> I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip in
> the rear window. Have any
> of you used some sort of washer, etc instead of the strip? The only
> problem I see with this is that one can see the sealer; but, if one puts
> enough sealer on the plexi, that should spread uniformly under the plexi
> and still look pretty good.
>
We did not use a trim strip on our tip up. We used counter sunk washers
with flush machine screws that ARE NOT TIGHT. The plex is over a thin
weather strip material. It does not leak (we haven't been in any raging
torrents) and I think it looks better than a trim strip. You have to
polish out the edge of the plex to prevent cuts when opening and
closing.
Get her done, you are going to love this airplane!
Mark Graf
N71CG RV-6 150 hp
Denver CO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
Listers,
I am deeply touched by all of the expressions of sympathy for my loss. What a
great group of people build these incredible machines. I plan to buy a
quickbuild and if the insurance company doesn't want too much for the salvage,
use some of the parts to speed the building process. AVEMCO looked at the
wreck today and said that it would be about two weeks before they know what
the salvage value is. I plan to order my kit tomorrow and get started. My
"Ti-downs" survived unscathed because they were in a locker in my hangar.
Just think, now they can advertise that they can stand up to a tornado .
Thanks again for your kind words. I'll be at Oshkosh and working as a
volunteer at Van's tent. Hope to see you there.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rare earth magnets |
>I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium
>magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of
>debris that always float around the engine in the oil.
>1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on
>the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words
>can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal?
>2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little
>buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass
>(about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away?
>Andy
Andy,
I put four of these rare earth magnets, obtained from TBO Advisor, on my
oil filter. Surprisingly, there was no effect on the compass nor have I had
any mag/electronic ignition problems. The TBO magnets were uniformly
rectangular so I don't know how the odd shaped magnets would work. The four
magnets do need to be mounted with opposite poles, every other magnet. For
what it's worth, I think I saw a similar set up for a lot less money
advertised in a J.C. Whitney catalog. Maybe they aren't the same, powerful
magnets. The ones purchased from TBO do stick well. I do tape mine on with
electrical tape, although it was stated that this wasn't necessary. I
believe that they now include a strap that holds the magnets onto the filter.
I think they now recommend two bands of four magnets each. They're not
cheap but they never wear out and they do pick up ferrous material. Maybe
this debris is too small to inflict any damage on an engine, I don't know.
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Paranoid control horn question |
<< I have
> both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with
> the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control
> horns are not lined up. >>
I marked how much twist I needed to get one to line up with the other and then
cut the tube. I undersleeved it inside with .058 wall 4130 tube, drilled
jigging holes (for temporary drill blanks) to hold it in the new (correct)
position. I then took it apart and drilled about four 3/8" holes on the
control horn tubes (2 places) staggered. Then I put it back together and had
a good TIG welder rosette weld the whole affair with a bead around the butted
tube ends. Grind to smooth and voila, they lined up perfectly.
I think Van's should make one of the horns adjustable. This is such a common
problem.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
I am reporting the sad news that we have lost another RV-4 in the Sedona Az.
area. Apparently, it collided with Cathedral Rock. The news story was not
clear nor do I know anything further on this regrettable situation that would
not be speculation. While this is not much consolation to our friends and
their families who we have lost--at least they were doing what they loved. I
guess as Homebuilts make up an ever larger fraction of the General Aviation
fleet we can only surmise there will be more such badnews to be delt with by
the Homebuilt fraternity. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Matronics Plagued w/ Power Outages... |
Listers,
We have had no less than *3* power outages here tonight! On the third time,
the Matronics web server didn't come back too happy and is reporting
disk errors. I'm looking at that right now and hope to have it back online
in an hour or so... Longer if I have to do any rebuilding or restoring...
(ack, UNIX just really hates power-off shutdowns...)
The Matronics *mail* server machine is back up now, running fine, and it
is forwarding mail.
Sorry for the problems tonight...
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001) |
Subject: | Matronics Web Server Back Online... |
The Matronics Web Server is back online! No major problems.
Matt Dralle
RV and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Darrell Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Subject: | Paranoid control horn question . . .may not be paranoia |
> << I have
> > both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with
> > the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control
> > horns are not lined up. >>
>
I had the same problem on my RV-4 elevator horns, but noticed it **before** constructing
the elevators. The horns, as welded, did not match the drawings, as
the horns were 6 degrees off (in different directions, left and right). After
a lot of tinkering, I found that the problem was in the bending of the v-shaped
pieces that are riveted to the elevator spar and the inboard rib. The pieces
had not been bent exactly across the middle, so that lining it up on the centerline
of the inboard rib caused the horn to "lead" on one side and "lag" on
the other. A call to Van's got: "Well, you can send them in so we can look at
them, but there's only about 2000 that have been built on the same jig with no
problem...." etc., etc.
I know this is a little late for those finding the problem after the horns are
mounted and the elevators are complete, but it may be a heads-up for those ready
to start. Clamp the horns together the way they will appear on the aircraft,
and see if the spar attachment surfaces are in the same vertical plane and
alignment. Likewise, check the root rib attachment surfaces by laying the clamped-up
pair of horns on a flat surface...they should both evenly contact the surface.
This is how I noticed mine were off.
By carefully matching the parts I had to the drawings to determine what was intended,
I mounted the horn brackets 6 degrees OFF the centerline of the root ribs,
6 high on one side, 6 low on the other.
Now the horns matched each other exactly when the elevator halves were leveled!
Some will say, "So what, just fair the elevators and drill the hole for the rod-end".
Yes, this is cosmetic as long as the "split" horns don't hit one or both
of the stops too early (or hit the spar), limiting the elevator throw.
Hmmm...will ONE horn hitting a stop cause twisting of the pushrod cross-bolt as
it tries to stop the other elevator half? Seems to me you'd want both horn halves
to contact the stops simultaneously.
Darrell Anderson
RV-4 Wings yet to be closed
Montana
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
Subject: | Paranoid control horn question . . .may not be |
paranoia
A
> A call to Van's got: "Well, you can send them in so we can look at them,
but there's only about 2000 that have been built on the same jig with no
problem...." etc., etc.
>
I have built two airplanes, both flying, and had the same problem with the
horns on them. I think that Van should get a new jig for welding the
elevator horns. No disrespect intended here. On both planes I had to make
stops that were different for both sides of the elevators for and aft. This
is not difficult but annoying.
Tom Martin
HRII 26hours, flight restrictions removed yesterday!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flutter mechanics |
Good information Greg. I just printed your post to compare it to an
article I have been re-re-reading written for the EAA Experimenter dealing
with aft CG. The article is trying to explain the engineering of an airplane
and what to expect from it. Kind of a home study course for me to try to
understand what I have been flying and trusting these last 50 years. It is
never too late....Thanks!
Have a good one!
Denny - RV-6 finishing
harje(at)proaxis.com
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim stri |
From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip
>in
>the rear window. I tried it tonight and found out it's gonna be a mess
>and time consuming for one person to do. I also figure it's a great way
>for a one person operation to cause a crack in the canopy. Have any
>of you used some sort of washer, etc instead of the strip?
I used aluminum pop-rivet washers from the hardware store instead of the
strip. Otherwise went by the instructions. It seemed to me that the
washers would distribute the clamping pressure better than the thin
aluminum strip and I think it looks a little better. It seems to have
come out ok.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6Q N441LP Reserved
Getting ready to mount wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Subject: | large pilot needs advice |
Todd,
I am 6' 5" and I am building a RV - 6, so I have
investigated this issue. I have flown a number of times in two 6A's
that are based at my home airport in South Carolina (KCUB). I don't
think that head room is a problem for you. You can adjust the thickness
of the seat cushions and shim the canopy if necessary. Leg room is also
OK. The plans allow for adjusting the rudder pedals forward if needed.
The hanging pedals allow you to slide your feet under them in flight.
Very comfortable! The shoulder room may be a problem. This is my
biggest concern. The only way to increase shoulder room is to "notch"
out the rails of the sliding canopy (Werner Berry's idea). This can add
maybe 11/2". I am just now skinning my fuselage and have modified the
seat ribs and the seat back brace (F-605).
I hope this helps.
Ken Harrill
RV - 6, fuselage
Hi All,
Sorry to bother you all with a question that has
probably been asked half a
hundred times before but i think it's a kind of
important thing for me to ask.
I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders.
Currently i'm thinking of
building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is
will i fit into the
thing and be able to close the canopy without any
problems?
I have read through the archives and seen a few people
ask similar
questions and the standard reply was you can lower the
height of the seat
when your building. This however isnt an option for me
as i live in
Australia and kit planes must be built *exactly* to the
specs in the kit
with no deviations at all. (there are ways around this,
but dealing with
C.A.S.A and getting aprovals is like shi#*@ing gravel
through a funnel)
Basically i need to know that i will fit into the beast
and remain
comfortable when i'm up in the air.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com> |
Subject: | LAKE TAHOE AIR FEST |
Lake Tahoe Air Fest
Saturday August 22 1998
Fly into beautiful Lake Tahoe and show your RV.
We currently have 3 RV's signed up for static display and I would
like to see a lot more.
Fly in any time Friday or before 9AM Saturday
6264 ft. elevation, 8544 ft.long x 150 ft. wide runway.
Contact me off line or phone (530)542-3945 and I will
snail mail an Info pack.
Wayne Bonesteel
RV-4 fuselage out of fixture.
________________________________________________________________________________
Landoll
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Re: Rudder & Elevator leading edges |
Great post, Jerry...I wish I would have read this two weeks ago when I
closed my rudder! I did roll the edges, but was not entirely satisfied, so
I actually blended the edge with the curve using body filler. Sanded
smooth, put some glaze putty on it, and primed it...now it looks like a
fiberglass leading edge.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
Mounting empennage
>
>Empennage builders,
>
>Someone posted a problem about getting the seams of the rud & elev
>leading edges to lay flat after they are bent & riveted. I always
>appreciate other builder's helpful hints, so I thought I would pass on
>something I tried that made the skins lay down nicely.
>
>1. Use the edge tool to put the slight bend on the edge of the skin
>before you start bending with the pipe(just easier to do it now
>before it's bent).
>2. I found it easier to bend one section at a time with a short 3/4"
>pipe than trying to do all three sections at one time. Just get
>the skins rounded over and then do the final molding by hand.
>3. When the skins are curved about how you want them, take a 3/8"
>wooden dowel and hold it at the edge that was bent with the edge
>tool. Squeezing it between your fingers and thumb, curl the edge a
>little more around the dowel. This makes the edge bend down a little
>more and rounds it so that it really fits the curve of the skin.
>
>Cleco together and check to see how the edges are laying down. If
>you're not satisfied, un-cleco and bend some more until it meets you
>liking. I didn't use the 3/8" dowel on the rudder and I can tell the
>difference in fit. The elevators look a lot nicer.
>
>Hope this helps.
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6a Wings
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kirkpatrick, Pat W" <pat.w.kirkpatrick(at)intel.com> |
Subject: | Drilling main landing gear on 6A |
Greetings,
I am in the process of drilling the main gear mounts on my 6A. All of
the holes in the spar are drilled 3/16 where the gear attaches. The
plans call for 1/4" in a few of the locations.
1. My question or concern is do you just drill the holes out to 1/4"??
2. Any problems with stresses around the holes on all of the laminated
peices of the spar which can't be deburred?
I am also concerned about the proximity of some of the hole to the welds
on the gear mount. The holes are right at the edge of the weld and going
to 1/4" would start to cut into the weld.
3. How do you get a washer on the bolt on this situation?
4. Is it ok to grind that area of the weld flat?
5. What about heat buildup from the grinding and stesses that are
created in the steel?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Pat Kirkpatrick
RV-6A
Rio Rancho NM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Moentenich, Brian L NWP" <Brian.L.Moentenich(at)nwp01.usace.army.mil> |
Subject: | Drilling main landing gear on 6A |
1. Use a 12" 1/4" bit if possible. It works best if you can fashion a
guide to align the bit to the hole before starting. Unless guided, a
reamer can end up over-sizing the hole.
2. Since the spar strips are riveted together, there will not be any
burrs on the inner pieces - only on the outside which can be deburred.
I did not have pre-punched wings and the spar hole layout may be
different for PP spars. I was concerned about where the holes would
come through the mount - but none were so close to a weld which would
require grinding a flat area (maybe I was lucky).
3. The washer should be flat on the part. The nut/bolt head can be
close to a rib where it will not turn.
4. You should grind only as much weld as is necessary. The washer
can be cut on one side to minimize this. If you are uncomfortable with
the amount of weld removed, take the mount to a shop and have
reinforcing welds installed on either side of these areas.
5. Do not worry about heat/stress from grinding. The entire part
has been thermally stress relieved after welding and you will not put
much heat into it anyway.
-----Original Message-----
From: Kirkpatrick, Pat W [SMTP:pat.w.kirkpatrick(at)intel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 10:00 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Drilling main landing gear on 6A
Greetings,
I am in the process of drilling the main gear mounts on my 6A.
All of
the holes in the spar are drilled 3/16 where the gear attaches.
The
plans call for 1/4" in a few of the locations.
1. My question or concern is do you just drill the holes out to
1/4"??
2. Any problems with stresses around the holes on all of the
laminated
peices of the spar which can't be deburred?
I am also concerned about the proximity of some of the hole to
the welds
on the gear mount. The holes are right at the edge of the weld
and going
to 1/4" would start to cut into the weld.
3. How do you get a washer on the bolt on this situation?
4. Is it ok to grind that area of the weld flat?
5. What about heat buildup from the grinding and stesses that
are
created in the steel?
Thanks in advance for the help.
Pat Kirkpatrick
RV-6A
Rio Rancho NM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
Subject: | Rudder & Elevator leading edges |
A recommendation I have on the rudder is to drill and cleco in the top
cap. Using a dremmel tool I gingerly cut away at the cap until it fit
very well with the rudder skin. I noticed that I had to move one of my
prepunched holes in order to get the cap to fit just oh so right on the
skin. Sure, sure you can't really move a prepunched hole, but you can
drill in another place and skip the prepunch.
Regards,
Gary Fesenbek
RV6A
Roanoke, VA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Besing [SMTP:rv8er(at)doitnow.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 4:58 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder & Elevator leading edges
>
>
> Great post, Jerry...I wish I would have read this two weeks ago when I
> closed my rudder! I did roll the edges, but was not entirely
> satisfied, so
> I actually blended the edge with the curve using body filler. Sanded
> smooth, put some glaze putty on it, and primed it...now it looks like
> a
> fiberglass leading edge.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB)Arizona
> Mounting empennage
>
>
> >
> >Empennage builders,
> >
> >Someone posted a problem about getting the seams of the rud & elev
> >leading edges to lay flat after they are bent & riveted. I always
> >appreciate other builder's helpful hints, so I thought I would pass
> on
> >something I tried that made the skins lay down nicely.
> >
> >1. Use the edge tool to put the slight bend on the edge of the skin
> >before you start bending with the pipe(just easier to do it now
> >before it's bent).
> >2. I found it easier to bend one section at a time with a short 3/4"
> >pipe than trying to do all three sections at one time. Just get
> >the skins rounded over and then do the final molding by hand.
> >3. When the skins are curved about how you want them, take a 3/8"
> >wooden dowel and hold it at the edge that was bent with the edge
> >tool. Squeezing it between your fingers and thumb, curl the edge
> a
> >little more around the dowel. This makes the edge bend down a
> little
> >more and rounds it so that it really fits the curve of the skin.
> >
> >Cleco together and check to see how the edges are laying down. If
> >you're not satisfied, un-cleco and bend some more until it meets you
> >liking. I didn't use the 3/8" dowel on the rudder and I can tell the
> >difference in fit. The elevators look a lot nicer.
> >
> >Hope this helps.
> >Jerry Calvert
> >Edmond Ok -6a Wings
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Subject: | Re: large pilot needs advice |
>I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of
>building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the
>thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems?
>Todd
Todd,
I'm 6' 3", weigh 215 lbs. and measure 53" around chest/arms. I have about
4" of foam in my RV-6 seats and still have room for headsets (unless it's
really, really bumpy.)
I have manual flaps and a tip up canopy. You may want to consider
electric flaps. With two guys my size in the airplane, it requires a little
wiggling to get full flaps pulled on. Otherwise, no problem.
Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
Subject: | Re: large pilot needs advice |
> >I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking
of
> >building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into
the
> >thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems?
> >Todd
I am 6'4" (mostly torso), 220 lbs, and in the process of installing the
slider canopy. Sitting on a couple of 2x4's to simulate a compressed seat
cushion, and wearing a headset, I just touch the bubble (I have
incorporated the increased canopy height modification per Van's manual).
For footroom (size 13's) and legroom, I have moved the rudders pedals
forward and up 1.5" from the plans location. This allows enough legroom
for rudder pedal operation, and to slip my feet underneath during cruise.
The tops of the brake pedals are slanted forward one inch, allowing rudder
operation without applying brakes.
I will also incorporate the shoulder reliefs that Werner Barry has on his
6A, since my shoulder hits the top canopy deck.
In case anyone else here flies with a partner that is much shorter, I
fabricated a pair of RudderReachers (tm ) for my 5'4" fiancee.
Basically a duplicate set of brake pedal plates, set on three standoffs
which easily bolt/unbolt to the standard brake pedals. This positions them
3" closer and lower. Don't know how or if the braking action will work out
yet until the RV flies, but at least she has full rudder control.
Rob (RV-6Q, Socal).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Shawn Grubb <sgrubb(at)bankofhydro.com> |
Subject: | RV's At Aerospace America In OKC?? |
Does anyone know if any RV's are going to be on display at the Aerospace
America airshow in Oklahoma City this weekend??
I am most interested to talk to any RV builders who will be attending the
show.
Shawn Grubb
Waiting On Preview Plans
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
Subject: | large pilot needs advice |
>For footroom (size 13's) and legroom, I have moved the rudders pedals
>forward and up 1.5" from the plans location.
Rob:
I have my .062 longerons in & not drilled for the rudders. I can see how
you can move them longitudual but did you just block them up or did you
move the stiffener up 1.5 inches for the height?
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
Subject: | Re: large pilot needs advice |
>
> Rob:
> I have my .062 longerons in & not drilled for the rudders. I can see how
> you can move them longitudual but did you just block them up or did you
> move the stiffener up 1.5 inches for the height?
Don,
I used 3/4"x1.5" 4130 steel tubing to raise the UHMW rudder bar blocks.
Rob (RV-6Q, Socal).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Subject: | RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice |
Hi all,
Rob Acker said:
"The tops of the brake pedals are slanted forward one inch, allowing rudder
operation without applying brakes."
This is timely comment for me, as I'm going to drill my pedels tonight. I have
the "overhead" pedels set up on the bench suppended by a couple of 1 gal paint
cans (knew those primer cans would come in handy for something;)). If I drill
the brake pedel/master cylinders to print, with the rudder bars aligned, the
brake pedels will be pretty close to vertical at there relaxed position.
As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back towards the
pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your foot would start applying
an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't think this is a good thing for taildraggers
:)
The only way I see to avoid this is to angle the brake pedels forward (like Rob
said) while the rudders are neutral.
So....I have two questions:
1. How much brake pedel movement is there, after the brakes are bled, to command
full brake?
2. Has anyone who is flying done what I've described, and how much did you angle
them forward? Was it too much, or too little, or just right?
TIA,
Laird Owens (SoCal)
RV-6 22923
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | WoodardRod(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: large pilot needs advice |
Todd:
Bob is very polite for not mentioning it, but I've got to be one of the larger
passengers he's ever carried. I'm 5'10" and weigh [more than he does :-) ] Bob
gave me a ride to and from the Longmont, CO fly-in about a year ago and we
didn't have much problem at all.
Happy building.
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado
In a message dated 6/16/98 12:48:54 PM Mountain Daylight Time, bskinr(at)trib.com
writes:
>
> >I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of
> >building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the
> >thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems?
> >Todd
>
> Todd,
> I'm 6' 3", weigh 215 lbs. and measure 53" around chest/arms. I have
about
> 4" of foam in my RV-6 seats and still have room for headsets (unless it's
> really, really bumpy.)
> I have manual flaps and a tip up canopy. You may want to consider
> electric flaps. With two guys my size in the airplane, it requires a
little
> wiggling to get full flaps pulled on. Otherwise, no problem.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV's At Aerospace America In OKC?? |
Shawn Grubb wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know if any RV's are going to be on display at the Aerospace
> America airshow in Oklahoma City this weekend??
>
> I am most interested to talk to any RV builders who will be attending the
> show.
>
> Shawn Grubb
> Waiting On Preview Plans
>
Shawn Grubb wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone know if any RV's are going to be on display at the Aerospace
> America airshow in Oklahoma City this weekend??
>
> I am most interested to talk to any RV builders who will be attending the
> show.
>
> Shawn Grubb
> Waiting On Preview Plans
Hi Shawn,
I,m hoping there will be some there also, but I don't think there will
be. It disapoints me at the lack of EAA enthusiasm at one of the
greatest airshows going! If you ever get to Edmond, you are welcome to
look over my -6a project. Just started on wings. Enid has a nice
following and their EAA prez has a -6.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a
(405)341-8129
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Air Tool Sale - SIOUX Air Drill |
We are currently running our SIOUX Model 1450HP (1/4" Chuck) and 1454HP (3/8"
Chuck) Air Drills at the super blow-out price of $135.00 ! These sell in our
1998 catalog for $169.95 but now thru July 15th they are available for only
$135.00 !!! These are Industrial quality drills, and of course they are
MADE IN THE USA.
A picture of this drill is available at our website under the "SPECIALS"
heading at:
http://www.browntool.com
While you are there, please visit our "NEW PRODUCTS" section for the latest
additions to our product line including: "the trey" fastener organizer and
our new hand-held hydraulic riveter for installing Cherrymax Rivets, Pop
Rivets, Nut-Plate Rivets, and Riv-Nuts.
Thanks for your time, this message will not be re-posted.
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
5700 N. Rockwell, Building Two, Suite E
Bethany,OK 73008
1-800-587-3883
405-495-4991
FAX 405-495-4992
BrownTool(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: large pilot needs advice |
> I used 3/4"x1.5" 4130 steel tubing to raise the UHMW rudder bar blocks.
I hadn't thought of that. An extra chunk of UHMW works too. Of course
you need longer bolts as well.
One thing to watch out for here is that the NACA ducts will likely be
directly above these blocks. If you don't leave enough room you will
never get the bolts in and out of the UHMW blocks from the top (and
even if you can it will only be by inserting the bolts most of the way
before getting the block in there). Of course you can always put the
bolts in from the bottom but this goes against "standard practice" and
also it may be harder to get them in and out depending on how oversize
you make the holes in the UHMW.
I blocked my pedals up by 1" which was plenty for my size 13s even
with 3/4" thick insulation on the floor.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)mci2000.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice |
> As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back
towards the pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your foot
would start applying an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't think this is
a good thing for taildraggers :)
> 2. Has anyone who is flying done what I've described, and how much did
you angle them forward? Was it too much, or too little, or just right?
I am not flying yet, but when putting the brakes together on my 6A, I did
modify a few things to slant the top of the brakes forward. If one swaps
the left and right rudder pedal weldments, i.e., the one that was forward
moves aft and vice-versa, one of the brake pedals will lean forward an
appropriate amount. The other pedal will lean back way too far, and for
this one I made a new pedal side plate with a much longer tab hanging down
for brake cylinder attachment. Now both pedals slant forward the same
amount. The same modifications could be made without swapping the rudder
pedal weldments; however, both side plates would need to be modified,
instead of only one.
Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice |
According to the plans, the pedals are to be angled back towards the pilot's
feet. That is where mine are...I think this is to allow one to engage the
pedals without having to press so far forward past one's reach. I am
concerned, though, about applying rudder pressure without inadvertantly
riding the brakes while taxiing. Any flying RV's have any input?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Mounting Empennage
>
>Hi all,
>
>Rob Acker said:
>
>
>
>"The tops of the brake pedals are slanted forward one inch, allowing rudder
>operation without applying brakes."
>
>This is timely comment for me, as I'm going to drill my pedels tonight. I
have the "overhead" pedels set up on the bench suppended by a couple of 1
gal paint cans (knew those primer cans would come in handy for something;)).
If I drill the brake pedel/master cylinders to print, with the rudder bars
aligned, the brake pedels will be pretty close to vertical at there relaxed
position.
>
>As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back towards
the pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your foot would start
applying an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't think this is a good thing
for taildraggers :)
>
>The only way I see to avoid this is to angle the brake pedels forward (like
Rob said) while the rudders are neutral.
>
>So....I have two questions:
>
>1. How much brake pedel movement is there, after the brakes are bled, to
command full brake?
>
>2. Has anyone who is flying done what I've described, and how much did you
angle them forward? Was it too much, or too little, or just right?
>
>TIA,
>
>Laird Owens (SoCal)
>RV-6 22923
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Subject: | Re: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice |
> As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back
> towards the pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your
> foot would start applying an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't
> think this is a good thing for taildraggers :)
A lot of people are adding a piece of heater hose or something similar
to the bottom crosspiece of each rudder pedal to keep the toes a bit
further away from the brake pedal.
And did you notice in the most recent RVator that Van's is saying the
"short spring" issue is actually a result of people over-compressing
the brake cylinders with no fluid in the system? I guess we need to
be careful about this. I haven't checked my springs yet but I'll bet
I did this.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
randall(at)edt.com
http://www.edt.com/homewing
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil> |
Subject: | Re: Alternative engines/props |
I saw a beautiful composite fixed pitch prop on an RV-4 at Bakersfield a
week and a half ago. Unfortunately, I didnt get much info as the pilot was
departing. He did say that the prop boosted cruise significantly without
any negative effects on climb compared to the original prop (Pacesetter). I
didnt get any numbers from him though. The prop was made by Lightspeed
(the ignition guy) and was a solid hub prop, no individual blades, bolts,
mounting lugs, etc.. The owner said its the smoothest prop he's ever flown
behind. Anyone know anything more?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil
>
>I heard that Ivoprop was the only composite prop manufacturer still putting
>their prop on four cylinder four cycle engines.
>
>Jim Ayers
>LesDrag(at)aol.com
>Thousand Oaks, Ca.
>RV-3 Maroon Marauder
>N47RV LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Magnum High Pitch Electric VP prop
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
Subject: | RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice |
To all,
I really should use my spellchecker more often. I really do know how to spell
"pedals".
Sorry, and I hear the Spelling Police at my door now...gotta run!
Laird
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 5:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Subject: | Re: Insurancetypes="text/plain,text/html"; |
(snipped)
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> >Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a
> >policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible.
> >Louis I. Willig
> Scott Smith of SkySmith Intl. is an Insurance broker with a RV program, it
> http://www.skysmith.com/
> is their website, tell him I sent you.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
I just got a quote from Mr. Smith, & I have both an observation and a request
for
information.
How many of us Avemco policy holders are aware that the max Avemco will pay any
PERSON (passenger or not) is the amount in the line A, "each person" box on your
policy? Call me stupid if you will, but I had assumed that the "each accident"
figure was your real protection. Not so, according to the Avemco rep I spoke to.
If you hurt someone other that yourself, they are only liable for this MUCH lower
figure.
Now we all know that if the pilot has caused an injury, the lawsuit will be for
much, much more than $50k -$100K. You had best believe that if the insurance co.
believes that they will lose, they are going to pay the $50k & walk, leaving you
to defend yourself.
According to Mr. Smith, his policy says each PASSENGER, not each person, so you
are at least protected if you hurt someone outside the aircraft, and that hull
coverage is handled by figuring realistic shop repair costs, not a low labor
figure like Avemco uses. He also told me that the underwriter is AIG, a very
large international company.
Now to my question. Have any of you had dealings with Skysmith, especially
claims? I am very tempted to change, since the coverage sounds much better (I feel
that I have almost no liability protection with Avemco), and the price is almost
20%
lower.
I hope the info about Avemco will help someone out there who, like me, thought
they were the only game in town & didn't pay much attention to the policy when
purchased.
If someone has experience with Skysmith/AIG, I'd really like to hear about it.
Charlie England
RV-4 N4375J
601-879-9596
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Subject: | Re: Insurancetypes |
I use Skysmith for my quickbuild policy. I had some difficulty in the
beginning getting information, but this was in part my own fault as I
had never insured an aircraft, and didn't quite understand that a
quickbuild kit is simply an aircraft that is not flying. I am in a
business that carries alot of liability, so I had my super anal
retentive insurance broker check out the whole policy, and after driving
Scott Smith nuts, he gave me the thumbs up. His rates are great too,
much better then my insurance guy whom my family has done business with
for 20+ years could do.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Charlie and Tupper England wrote:
>
>
> (snipped)
> Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
> > >Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a
> > >policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible.
> > >Louis I. Willig
> > Scott Smith of SkySmith Intl. is an Insurance broker with a RV program, it
> > http://www.skysmith.com/
> > is their website, tell him I sent you.
> >
> > Tailwinds,
> > Doug Rozendaal
> > dougr(at)petroblend.com
>
> I just got a quote from Mr. Smith, & I have both an observation and a request
for
> information.
>
> How many of us Avemco policy holders are aware that the max Avemco will pay any
> PERSON (passenger or not) is the amount in the line A, "each person" box on your
> policy? Call me stupid if you will, but I had assumed that the "each accident"
> figure was your real protection. Not so, according to the Avemco rep I spoke
to.
> If you hurt someone other that yourself, they are only liable for this MUCH lower
> figure.
>
> Now we all know that if the pilot has caused an injury, the lawsuit will be for
> much, much more than $50k -$100K. You had best believe that if the insurance
co.
> believes that they will lose, they are going to pay the $50k & walk, leaving
you
> to defend yourself.
>
> According to Mr. Smith, his policy says each PASSENGER, not each person, so you
> are at least protected if you hurt someone outside the aircraft, and that hull
> coverage is handled by figuring realistic shop repair costs, not a low labor
> figure like Avemco uses. He also told me that the underwriter is AIG, a very
> large international company.
>
> Now to my question. Have any of you had dealings with Skysmith, especially
> claims? I am very tempted to change, since the coverage sounds much better (I
feel
> that I have almost no liability protection with Avemco), and the price is almost
> 20%
> lower.
>
> I hope the info about Avemco will help someone out there who, like me, thought
> they were the only game in town & didn't pay much attention to the policy when
> purchased.
>
> If someone has experience with Skysmith/AIG, I'd really like to hear about it.
>
> Charlie England
> RV-4 N4375J
> 601-879-9596
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
Subject: | Re: RV-6 Rudder pedals |
The rudder pedals mounting blocks seem to need to be mounted further
forward for most pilots. The important thing is to drill the support angles
to accept the mounts in more than one position in the first place, and
SHORTEN the rudder pedal torque tubes to allow them to go towards the front
of the fuselage. As the fuselage is tapered you can't shift the mounts
forward later without taking the whole assembly out and shortening the
tubes, no small task ! Remember to shorten the end which will increase
the clearance between the rudder pedals as clearance can be a problem
allready.
Also when making the brake pedals, do not drill the bottom mounting holes
in their 3/4 angles until you have fitted the brake cylinder in place and
checked the position of the brake pedal in relation to the rudder pedals.
This is your last chance to align them.
If you are going to raise the pedals , the advantage of using the sqare
tube suggested by Rob Acker is you can still use the standard bolts plus a
couple of short ones.
Good luck, Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
Subject: | Re: large pilot needs advice |
>
> > I used 3/4"x1.5" 4130 steel tubing to raise the UHMW rudder bar blocks.
>
> I hadn't thought of that. An extra chunk of UHMW works too. Of course
> you need longer bolts as well.
The tubing allowed me to use the standard UHMW blocks and bolts, with short
bolts holding the tubing to the longeron. This way, should the aircraft
ever be sold, its real easy to convert to standard pedal height. Also, I
drilled multiple fore/aft holes to allow for adjustment.
> One thing to watch out for here is that the NACA ducts will likely be
> directly above these blocks
VERY good point. Mount the pedals first, then locate the NACA ducts.
> I blocked my pedals up by 1" which was plenty for my size 13s even
> with 3/4" thick insulation on the floor.
Hmmm....your ankles are more flexible than mine . With a bare floor and
the pedals raised 1.5", I am BARELY able to slip my feet underneath (shoes
on).
Rob (RV-6Q, Socal).
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Subject: | Paranoid control horn question . . .may not be paranoia |
<>
If you're pushing or pulling hard enough on the stick in flight to bend that
bolt, I'd say you're already in BIG TROUBLE.....
Just my $.02...
>
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
Subject: | Re: large pilot needs advice |
>
>Hi All,
>
>Sorry to bother you all with a question that has probably been asked half a
>hundred times before but i think it's a kind of important thing for me to ask.
>I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of
June 08, 1998 - June 16, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ev