RV-Archive.digest.vol-ev

June 08, 1998 - June 16, 1998



      
      >I now need to review all Service Bulletins and Service Instructions so I
      can
      >ensure I comply with all the most recent requirements.  Lycoming tells me I
      >have to go to an A&P and review all the documents to ensure nothing is
      >overlooked.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Cocker <JCocker(at)Ibm.Net>
Subject: The Big Loop
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto, across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, Denver, Chicago. Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to jcocker(at)medhumor.com Thanks. John C-GDOC 150 hours Newmarket Ontario ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: Re: electrical noise
> >I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets, > >particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight > >fluctuation in my volt meter. > Does the noise go away if you're operating > battery only . . . alternator off? Yes, I have isolated the sound to something being generated by the alternator. That is, when I shut down the master or pull the fuse for the alternator field, the noise quits. I have also noticed that the noise becomes more prominent and rythmical at normal operating rpms and of course it is louder as the volume on the radio is increased. Next, I pulled the cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free of the alternator. (I think it is a capacitor. It is a silver cylindrical piece about 1 1/2" long x 3/4" in diameter. The piece is marked 23939-1030 / Capto Corp / Tipp City OH / S15 5-1 / 9336) What is this piece and what does it do? Everything else in the system works fine even with this disconnected (except the noise). Unfortunately, the wire to it broke off right on its base, so re-connecting it might be marginal at best. I might have to replace it. So again, what is it, and where can I get a new one? And of course, could the absence of this piece be responsible for the alternator electrical noise? Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Reserving N numbers
. Simply a letter stating the numbers requested >will suffice. You only need to send in $10, not the $5 and $10. *That makes me wonder as I had sent the $5. and the $10. With the registration Form. The FAA sent me the last letter with the Assigned box check rather then the reserved box. Until now I just thought it was a mistake. I sent my renew $10. in, But I did Not receive a notice as you stated Gary. May be I wasted my second $10. N641DH maybe Assigned to me, period. Have a great day! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andy Rice <arice(at)ramaker.com>
Subject: MN Wing Sat Breakfast
Date: Jun 08, 1998
The Bloomer Airport, 20 miles north of Eau Claire, will be having a gathering after the airshow...So if anyone want to come and have some coffee, spend then night and camp, enjoy a bonfire, etc... show up. > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Weiler [SMTP:dougweil(at)pressenter.com] > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 1998 1:52 PM > To: Tony Dockendorf; Tom Irlbeck; Tom Berge; Terry Stern; Mitch > Robbins; Mike Casmey; Loren D. Jones; Larry Daudt; Joe Larson; Jim > Lenzmeier; Fred Hiatt; Ed Jungst; Cliff Carpenter; RV Internet Group > Subject: RV-List: MN Wing Sat Breakfast > > > Fellow Listers, et al: > > Just a note to advise everyone of the bi-monthly breakfast hangar > session > next Saturday, June 13. Place: Hideaway Cafe, St. Paul Airport, > 0900. > > Big airshow at Eau Claire the same day (Blue Angels, Golden Knights, > Gene > Soucy, etc.) We are planning on flying on over right after breakfast. > EAU > airport closes at 1130. Maybe we can assemble a gaggle of RVs (plus > one > slow Citabria). > > Doug > > > ******************************************* > Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI > 715-386-1239 > email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: "JOHN J. FRITSCH" <bscmjjf(at)netdex.com>
Subject: Re: The Big Loop
If you like wine, stop in the Sonoma/Napa area. and spend a day making the rounds at wineries/picnicing. STS is probably best airport...E-mail me at bscmjjf(at)netdex.com for more details and possibly place to stay...JJF 1986 RV-4 N95JF John Cocker wrote: > > Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto, > across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of > the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, > Denver, Chicago. > Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to > jcocker(at)medhumor.com > Thanks. > John C-GDOC 150 hours > Newmarket Ontario > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: Re: FAB Fitting Follies
<< I've been working on the filtered air box (FAB), and am up against a bit of a problem/decision. With the new model of FAB (not the one shown in the Orndorff video) the air filter sits between the fiberglass bottom of the FAB and the aluminum top plate that bolts to the carb. This constrains the angle at which the entire FAB assembly can be tilted, since one must keep the air filter tightly squeezed. I bent the front portion of the FAB's metal top cover up as much as I could to meet the opening in the cowl air scoop, but it really should be higher to get the top of the FAB input aligned with the top of the opening in the cowl scoop. In addition, the inlet into the FAB is about 3/8" taller than the opening in the cowl scoop. >> Tim, I have an IO-320, so I had to use the O-360 bottom scoop to provide clearance for the injection servo. I wonder if you used a scoop for the O-360, would it sit lower and provide a better line-up into the inlet of the FAB? After my first few flights, I noticed that my air filter was rotating inside the airbox. How did I know this? One of the forward tabs that hold the filter in place was shearing off a slice of rubber from the filter, and I noticed it on a pre-flight inspection. I wound up installing a plate of .090 aluminum that's bonded to the bottom of the FAB bowl, in order to shim the filter up tighter against the top plate and stop it from rotating. So far it seems to be working ok. Man, that filter catches a lot of bugs! Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV Down for new baby daughter. She must be powered by a rotary, 'cause she sure can whine! Broken Arrow, Ok ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: The Big Loop
You may want to stop for lunch in Sedona, Arizona...it is the closest thing to landing on an aircraft carrier! Not to mention, the scenery is beautiful..canyons, red rock, etc... Paul Besing > >Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto, >across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of >the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, >Denver, Chicago. >Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to >jcocker(at)medhumor.com >Thanks. >John C-GDOC 150 hours >Newmarket Ontario > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Strobe Power Supply
.com> What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this cut down on noise? >Plus you should decide if you are going to put a strobe power supply on >each wingtip or not. That will drive the wire size/type that you will >need as well. > > Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Mounting Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: Re: Reserving N numbers
In a message dated 6/8/98 11:57:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, harje(at)proaxis.com writes: . Simply a letter stating the numbers requested >will suffice. You only need to send in $10, not the $5 and $10. *That makes me wonder as I had sent the $5. and the $10. With the registration Form. The FAA sent me the last letter with the Assigned box check rather then the reserved box. Until now I just thought it was a mistake. I sent my renew $10. in, But I did Not receive a notice as you stated Gary. May be I wasted my second $10. N641DH maybe Assigned to me, period. Have a great day! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR >> Denny, I did the exact same thing. The FAA mailed me a check about a month later for $10. Louis Smith RV-8 N801RV Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: Trim Tab Rib
Hi Moe: Regarding your trimtab ribs, I made mine so that the rib flange is flush with the skin. In other words, make it look like the tip and root ribs. Mine worked great and looks good. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 Trim tab to go, and the Empenage is done! Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: The Big Loop
John Cocker wrote: > > Next week end, Jeremy Hall and I are setting out to fly DOC from Toronto, > across Canada via Winnipeg, Calgary, Vancouver, then down the West cost of > the US to Los Angeles, then head back East via Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, > Denver, Chicago. > Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to Hi John, Good luck on the trip. Either on the way out or back, you should try and stop here in the Sault and go to the Bush Plane Museum. I'll be out of town next weekend, but if you stop on the way back I'd be glad to taxi you around. tailwinds, terry Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A 38 Cartier St. Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca Ontario Canada P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Weichert, Wolfgang" <Wolfgang.Weichert(at)nrc.ca>
Subject: Strobe Power Supply
Date: Jun 08, 1998
I don't know what the advantages are putting strobe PS in each wingtip. Disadvantages are that you may need to get at them at some future time, so make the tip removable or have an access door. I put my PS on an access door below the baggage floor and ran the wires only to the tips. If proper grounding rules are observed (i.e. grounding the shield at the noise source only, the power supply, not at he strobe light) then there will be no interference at all. In 300 hrs have never had noise interference. ====================================== * Wolfgang Weichert System Support Unit * Phone (613) 993-9589 Fax (613) 941-0175 * e-mail wolfgang.weichert(at)nrc.ca ====================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: 6A-QB Skin
Mike, If it's the f-688 (dwg # 32) piece your talking about, I had a similar question and asked Van's. Ken sent back the reply that the f-688 is not required for a slider. That piece of structure is reinforcement on the Tip Up canopy. I can send Van's reply to you if you like. Laird RV-6 Slider (working on the rudder pedels) SoCal From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Sat, Jun 6, 1998 11:46 AM Subject: RV-List: 6A-QB Skin I've drilled & clecoed the most rear ward skin on the fuselage. Now I'm up to the one right behind the baggage compartment. I have a slider going on and I was wandering about the triangle looking piece on top do I trim around that or position directly over it? It is the piece right on top behing the baggage area. Thanks. Mike Comeaux RV6A-QB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Supply- 1 or 2?
<< What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this cut down on noise? >> Good question! Putting TWO supplies in the wings will reduce your climb, because your wallet will be heavier! Seriously, I sell the Aeroflash brand nav/strobes/position setups for $420/pr. Most places sell the Whelens for much more. Let me know if I can help further.... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: "Higgins, John J." <john_higgins(at)merck.com>
Subject: electrical noise
> "I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets, particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight fluctuation in my volt meter... I have isolated the sound to something being generated by the alternator. That is, when I shut down the master or pull the fuse for the alternator field, the noise quits. I have also noticed that the noise becomes more prominent and rythmical at normal operating rpms and of course it is louder as the volume on the radio is increased. I pulled the cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free of the alternator. (I think it is a capacitor. It is a silve > cylindrical piece...What is this piece and what does it do?... So again, > what is it, and where can I get a new one? And of course, could the > absence of this piece be responsible for the alternator electrical noise? > > Andy" > > Andy - There is a nice article on alternator & voltage regulator whine at > the avweb site - might help confirm you finding above as cause and it also > mentions a replacement part : > > http://www.avweb.com/articles/altwhine.html > > John Higgins RV-8 Emp > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Plexi attach methods
Personally I try to stick with the plans unless there's a good reason to do otherwise. I'm not sure that having trouble tapping the holes is a very good reason to switch to pop-rivets or riv-nuts. Are you using cutting oil? I had the same problem until I said "duh!" and got some cutting oil, and that made all the difference. Now that you've broken a tap off you should have a feel for how much torque it takes to break it off, so you should know when to back it off to clear the chips. It's easy once you get the hang of it. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: The Big Loop
Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to jcocker(at)medhumor.com Hi John Will post this to the RV-list in hopes of increasing tourism and subsequently the value of the Canadian dollar before I order fusalage! Some nice smaller places to stop in southern British Columbia are: 1) Crawford Bay, a grass strip on the Cranbrook (YXC) 264 radial @ 35 N.M. (N49 40 W116 49). No town, but there is a campground and rental cabins next door, store 1/2 mile, golf course with restaurant across road and beach at end of runway. Strip is shown as one way but I have seen Cessna 172 doing sightseeing flights operating both ways. No fuel. 2) Nelson, N49 29 W117 18, a quaint town with adjacent airstrip located in a scenic mountain valley. Paved, fuel, accomodations and easy walk to everything. 3) Oliver, N49 10 W119 33, Southwinds restaurant, hotel with swimming pool etc at south end of field. Paved, fuel etc. Town adjacent and easy walk. 4) Salmon Arm, N50 40 W119 37, nice airport and town, Flying club might still have a courtesy car. Large Fly-in on fathers day weekend with several RV's in attendance, why not get the prize for coming longest distance? 5) Chilliwack, N49 09 W121 56, in the fraser valley, all facilities, airport coffee shop famous for pie. Adjacent to town, easy walk. 6) Langley, N49 06 W122 37, is a friendly small strip to stop at in the Vancouver area, all facilities and no ATC problems, about 10 RV's based here. Downside is that we are 30 miles from downtown Vancouver. Call me at 604-514-0747, I live a mile from airport and I will assist & update you on the airports we use going to California. George McNutt, Langley B.C. 6A - Flaps. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: FAB Fitting Follies
> I've been working on the filtered air box (FAB), and am up against a bit of a > problem/decision. [snip!] Tim: You say you have completed the FAB box. I assume this means you've done the aternate air door? If not, then shortening the FAB box isn't all that "radical". That's what I did. Fortunately for me I saw this coming so I installed the FAB box and cowl scoop at the same time and adjusted them together for the best fit (I recommend this to other builders!) I moved the scoop down, bent the end of the FAB box up, shortened the FAB box quite a bit, and even so only had to add about 3/8" of "tunnel". If you have already installed the door, then I'd probably go with #2. If you are still worried about the discontinuity of the junction, you might be able to cut back the inside of the inlet and re-do it so it forms a better junction. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Paul Peterson <pwpeterson(at)Ibm.Net>
Subject: N-Numbers and inspections
Listers, What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's N-number. Can it be three letters and two numbers such as 'NABC99', or do the numbers have to precede the letters, eg 'N1234AZ'. What is the required number of characters/numbers? I've seen some - excluding the 'N' prefix - that are a single number followed by two letters. Also, do I have to have my wings inspected before closing them? Thanks. Paul Peterson finishing wings, waiting for fuse. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Supply- 1 or 2?
Which model(s) do you have? Do you have the 156-0049? Which is the nav/strobe/position? thanks... Paul > > ><< What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other > than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this > cut down on noise? > >> > >Good question! Putting TWO supplies in the wings will reduce your climb, >because your wallet will be heavier! Seriously, I sell the Aeroflash brand >nav/strobes/position setups for $420/pr. Most places sell the Whelens for much >more. > >Let me know if I can help further.... > >Check six! >Mark > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com>
Subject: Re: N-Numbers and inspections
Date: Jun 08, 1998
N then 1..9 then 0..9 [repeated between zero and four times] then A..Z [repeated between zero and two times] Total length (including 'N') not exceeding 6. I don't know the minimum length, except that (almost) all the shortest legal id's are already taken :-) -- Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com -----Original Message----- From: Paul Peterson <pwpeterson(at)Ibm.Net> >What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's >N-number. Can it be three letters and two numbers such as 'NABC99', or >do the numbers have to precede the letters, eg 'N1234AZ'. What is the >required number of characters/numbers? I've seen some - excluding the >'N' prefix - that are a single number followed by two letters. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: electrical noise
<3.0.1.16.19980603231422.464f085a(at)dtc.net> > >> >I have noticed the development of a ticking sound in my headsets, >> >particularly at higher power settings that seems to match a slight >> >fluctuation in my volt meter. > >> Does the noise go away if you're operating >> battery only . . . alternator off? > >Yes, I have isolated the sound to something being generated by the >alternator. That is, when I shut down the master or pull the fuse for >the alternator field, the noise quits. I have also noticed that the >noise becomes more prominent and rythmical at normal operating rpms and >of course it is louder as the volume on the radio is increased. Ahhaa! Good input . . . >Next, I pulled the cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free >of the alternator. (I think it is a capacitor. It is a silver >cylindrical piece about 1 1/2" long x 3/4" in diameter. The piece is >marked 23939-1030 / Capto Corp / Tipp City OH / S15 5-1 / 9336) What is >this piece and what does it do? Everything else in the system works fine >even with this disconnected (except the noise). This has to be an alternator noise filter. . . Got off the phone with my favorite filter engineer at Captor not ten minutes ago! We COULD do a lot of detective work and then try to find a replacment filter. Since we're talking about an amateur-built airplane, you can put anything on there you'd like to give it a try. You can call Newark Electronics at 800-4-NEWARK and order a 47F1970 Capacitor. This is about 1.4" diameter and 2.3" long. Make connections to it by means of two 10-32 screws on one end. Attach to rear of alternator using Adel clamp (MS21919DG20) and wire [+] lead to the alternator b-lead terminal and [-] lead to the alternator case. Use 20AWG jumpers for these connnectonns and try to keep them to 4" or less in lenght. >Unfortunately, the wire to it broke off right on its base, so >re-connecting it might be marginal at best. I might have to replace it. >So again, what is it, and where can I get a new one? And of course, >could the absence of this piece be responsible for the alternator >electrical noise? > when noise goes up and down with the volume control . . . you betcha . . . Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection //// (o o) ==========o00o=(_)=o00o========== < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Re: jon's seats
Hello Carey, Just tell me what you want. I need to get the order out by Tuesday, if possible. I am asking everyone to send a check of any type as soon as convenient for the costs of the seats. I would rather wait on the shipping and figure that out one time, including the ups to specific homes. You can call if you like. I work odd shift hours and will be at work tonight 6 pm till 6 am. You can call anytime if you need to. Michael C. Lott 1238 Caesar road Carriere, Ms. 39426 Home phone 601-798-8896 work 228-688-3381 Talk to you later. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: THEHENS(at)webtv.net (Gary Hendrickson)
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: rv email list
to whom it may concern, My name is Gary Hendrickson and i'm currently building an rv-6. I understand you have a e-mail list. Would you please put my address on this for usefull info. thehens(at)webtv.net. Gary Hendrickson. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith)
Subject: Re: N-Numbers and inspections
> >Listers, > >What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's >N-number. Can it be three letters and two numbers such as 'NABC99', or >do the numbers have to precede the letters, eg 'N1234AZ'. What is the >required number of characters/numbers? I've seen some - excluding the >'N' prefix - that are a single number followed by two letters. I called today and found out you can't use "I" or "O" because of the confusion with their numerical likenesses. Shelby in Nashville. "N95EB" reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Bocox" <rbocox(at)ryko.com>
Subject: Status of Buick V-8 215 CID project
Date: Jun 08, 1998
A number of you are interested in how the Buick project is going. This is for Ted in paticular. My project is down to painting, wheel pant-leg, and cowl work. It is taking quite a bit of work to fit all of the stuff under the cowl with the Buick. The worst part was making the engine mount. This alone, took me about 4 months to get right. I did not paint the mount for about a year so I could get all of the mounting tabs on. I painted the mount white epoxy. My engine is actually an Oldsmobile turbo model. I had a speed shop rework the engine going for reliability, not HP. I saved a great deal of cost by making a deal with the owner. We came to an agreement in that I did not need the engine back for a year or so, so he agreed to work on it only when their work was slow. The engine was CC'd, and balanced. Some port work was done, but not much. He installed the Crower cam you suggested, the Edelbrock manifold also. The shop owner suggested that I do not turn the intake manifold around, but mill it 6 degrees the other direction to get the slope of the carb head right. I have access to complete m IGNITION I have installed 2 MSD-6 electronic modules, connected to mallory coils and a mallory dual point distributor. The points were separated for each MSD unit, and the timing had to be adjusted on the points to get them the same. The distributor is not 180 degrees apart on the points. It was not difficult to do. I put a switch on the dash which selects which ignition system to use. The backup system operates off of a separate small gell cell battery. This battery is linked into the charging system and I have a switch on my voltmeter so I can check its voltage. MIXTURE I also installed a MSD lean- rich systen with the oxygen sensor in the exhaust. This is pretty neat! I am using a 350 CFM Holley Carb with the mixture control from the guy( I can't remember his name) in Arizona. The mixture system works good, but the mixture lever appears to be a little sensitive. I made a longer lever for the mixture control, and this helps with the sensitivity. The biggest problem I still have is what to do about the air filter. With the mixture lever located where it is, It is almost impossible to fit an air cleaner/filter on top of the carbureter. I made up a custom epoxy-glass collector box for the top of the carb. I also built up a remote filter enclosure to locate somewhere, connecting the two boxes and the front of the cowl with SCAT tubing. This will work OK, but I am having trouble finding a location for the filter box. Little issues come up like how to change the filter element without dissassembling the entire cowl, etc. Any Ideas What to do? VACUUM SYSTEM I made up a canister by welding 6061T6 aluminum 3" dia by 10" long. I connected this to the intake manifold through a checkvalve. Preliminary running of the engine shows I can get enough vacuum to run the DG and the Horizon. Since I have not flown the plane, I will no more as time progresses. COOLING SYSTEM I started off using the air conditioner evaporators. I ended up not liking them. If I could buy good units with fittings already on them, I would have bought them in a flash. I ended up using aftermarket aluminum oil coolers. The units are about 5" by 11" by 1'' thick. I installed 4 of them. 2 on each cheek. The plumbing is a little excessive, since I have so many fittings. I milled and then welded up custom distribution manifolds to make the connections, then connected them together with aircraft hoses and AN fittings. I put an aftermarket header tank in and installed a bleeder hose from the top of the manifold system to the top of the header tank. I still need to install 2 pressure gauges in the water system. my calculations show that I have about 195 square inches of radiator area, and a cooling system volume of 2.35 gallons. I have ran the engine extensively-- 2-3 hours in my garage without a prop. I place box fans in front of the radiators only. I have a 180 degree thermostat installed. I OIL COOLER I installed a sandwich adapter between the block and the oil filter. I ran AN hoses/fittings to a small oil cooler 3" by 9" approx. The oil cooler is installed in front of the radiators on the pilot side. Does not appear to cut down air flow. I don't remember exactly what the oil temperatures were during running, but they were quite normal. EXHAUST SYSTEM I welded up my own system. I did not run the pipe to the back side of the head. I made them more like headers. Presently, they go straight down and out of the cowl. Me and another guy are going to redesign them so that they go out at the back end of the cowl. After we are done, I am going to send them to a place in Wichita, KS and have them silver ceramicoated. They will do it for about $200.00. Much cheaper than stainless exhausts. Someone needs to sell exhaust systems also. I also indexed the spark plugs. I got tons of washers from the engine rebuilder, so why not? STARTER and ALTERNATOR I am using a TILTON starter and an aftermarket single wire alternator. These seem to be working fine so far. PROPELLER I bought a 68" dia. WARP drive unit. They suggested that I start at 16 degrees pitch. When I put the prop on, I noticed that the spinner front plate was designed for a real thick wood prop. This lead to discussion with a few A & Ps in our EAA chapter, and we cam up with a milled adapter. This looks like a prop extension. I turned it on a 12" lathe out of 6061T6. The unit started out as a 3" thick 6-1/2" dia chunck of metal. The prop end was made 3/8" thick, and the front plate end was made 1/4" thick. The unit ended up being 2.30" long to put the front plate in the proper place. All excess material was removed from the insided of the hub. locating bosses were milled in to center the adapter on the prop (about a 1") hole, and a larger one was milled in to fit Van's front plate. I made these a press fit so that they would align exactly. When finished, the unit ended up weighing 1lb-13 oz, Now, AN6H-32A bolts are only what is needed to put the prop on, and I put blind nut plates on the back side of I figure that I will have about $5700 firewall forward when I am done. Not too bad. I also figure that the auto conversion added about 2 additional years to the project. Everything looks good and I am sure it will be worth the effort. Due to the difficulty in making all of your own parts, I would not do this exact conversion again. I would Jess Meyer's at Belted Air Power ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Service Bulletins and Instructions
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Listers, I just ordered a complete set of Service Bulletins and Service Instructions from Lycoming. It cost $125.00 plus $15.00 shipping. They also have it on CD Rom for $315.00. The women that takes your order is named Gladys. She'll tell you that the CD Rom is a steal at that price. Due to sickness in the family, I may not get a chance to get my engine back together very soon so I thought I'd go whole hog and do the engine overhaul to the best of my ability ( which ain't much ) and I guess that means not missing any service bulletins. Now all I have to do is learn how to read. Thought I'd pass along this information since there was a thread on it. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: rv email list
Gary Hendrickson wrote: > > to whom it may concern, > > My name is Gary Hendrickson and i'm currently building an rv-6. I > understand you have a e-mail list. Would you please put my address on > > this for usefull info. > > thehens(at)webtv.net. > Gary Hendrickson. > Gary, Checkout the address in the box and follow the instructions... Welcome aboard! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com>
Subject: Re: N-Numbers and inspections
> What combinations of letters and numbers can I use for my RV's > N-number. Rules on registration numbers are described fully in FAR 47.15. Here are the guts of it: (b) A U.S. identification number may not exceed five symbols in addition to the prefix letter "N". These symbols may be all numbers (N10000), one to four numbers and one suffix letter (N 1000A), or one to three numbers and two suffix letters (N 100AB). The letters "I" and "O" may not be used. The first zero in a number must always be preceded by at least one of the numbers 1 through 9. > Also, do I have to have my wings inspected before closing them? No. The FAA only wants to inspect it once, when its done. For insurance purposes the 3 EAA tech counselor visits can be any time. Wing closing is a good time for one of them however. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: N-Numbers
At one time(years ago) I owned a C-120. This aircraft is no longer flying, and the Numbers used for this airplane do not appear in the registry. I was toying with the idea of being able to reserve "these" numbers for my RV-6A, since they represent my "first" airplane. Is this a possibility? Jim Nice RV6A WA State ________________________________________________________________________________
From: THEHENS(at)webtv.net (Gary Hendrickson)
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: what have i done.
thanks for all the responses folks. glad to see there are so many helpful people. happy building ( and flying some day!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Canopy Fairing
Listers I've been putting off making the fiberglass fairing strip that goes in front of the -4 canopy, but the time has come. I made my own vertical/horizontal intersection fairing using Gil Alexander's instructions. the fairing turned out great. I was hoping someone out there had a good method of making the canopy fairing and would share that with me. It makes it a lot easier when you have some idea of what you are doing. thanks Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: FAB Fitting Follies
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS)
Date: Jun 08, 1998
>Listers, > >I've been working on the filtered air box (FAB), and am up against a >bit of a >problem/decision. With the new model of FAB (not the one shown in the > >Orndorff video) >Thanks, > >Tim Tim, I just wanted to mention (to prevent any confusion) that their isn't an old style and a new style FAB kit. Their is an O-320 and an O-360 kit. It sounds like you are working with the O-360 FAB and the video probably shows the installation of the O-320 FAB. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 08, 1998
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Subject: Re: The Big Loop
> >Any ideas for places we must stop and see, or advice, would be welcome to >jcocker(at)medhumor.com > >Hi John This is the exact trip that I hope to make, be sure to take lots of notes. Tom martin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: TRAASHMAN(at)webtv.net (Joe Waltz)
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Subject: Re: Tach problem
In the C-130 the "FIRE" lights would flicker when transmitting on HF. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Plexi attach methods
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Probably the best "cutting oil" for aluminium and lead, is mineral turpentine or kerosene. Dont know theory behind this,but was taught that when doing my trade and it works well. Also very good with circle cutter (fly cutter) on thick aluminium such as the instrument panel. It prevents the cutter from gauling and gives a very clean edge. Brian > Are you using cutting oil? I had the same problem until I said "duh!" > and got some cutting oil, and that made all the difference. Now that > you've broken a tap off you should have a feel for how much torque it > takes to break it off, so you should know when to back it off to clear > the chips. It's easy once you get the hang of it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Columbus, MS RVers
Date: Jun 08, 1998
I'm preparing for a move to Columbus, Mississippi and was wondering if there are any fellow RVators there. If so please e-mail me direct, I'm hoping to find some active flying and building. Thanks, Marcus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Boone Flyin
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Does anyone have the schedule for the Boone Flyin this month? Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Boone Flyin
Date: Jun 08, 1998
Could anyone post the schedule for the Boone Flyin this month? Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McLaughlJR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Re: ProSeal alternative?
<> Rob - Thanks for the tips. I admittedly went too slow on riveting up my one tank. And the later the nights wore on, the slower I got. Did you have a helper, or do it yourself? Also, since it has been a little while, I'm not sure but that I may have used four tubes instead of the stated three. Joel McLaughlin -6 Wings N.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO" <lewisth(at)af.pentagon.mil>
Subject: FAB Fitting Follies
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Listers, Just to complete the story, I thought I'd pass along what Van's said. Tom wrote, "I kind of go with solution Number 2 as well... the discontinuity will be insignificant, it is only a labor matter..." ________________________________________________________________________________ same problem: the FAB 360 airbox when constructed per the plans doesn't line up with the cowl air scoop. A common solution is to shorten the FAB 360 by another inch or two, then construct a tunnel from the cowl scoop to the FAB. Since I'd already riveted the FAB 360 together per the plans I just moved the cowl air scoop down and back, and sealed the gap with the provided rubber seal. If anybody from Van's is monitoring the list, please take note. This area looks like a good candidate for either a design change or plans modification. One occurrence may be "builder error." Multiple occurrences of the problem indicate otherwise. Thanks for all the posts and advice! Tim Lewis RV-6AQ #60023 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Supply
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: "William H. Watson" <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net>
I bought the Aeroflash units from Cleaveland Tools. One supply in each wing tip. You will need a line for the strobe and a line for the position lights. The big advantage is the price - $420. However, you must make the wing tip removable, at some small cost for the nutplates, dimple die, countersink, etc. I fired up the stobes, using a car battery. Really bright and way cool. Made me want to keep working..... Bill Watson, RV6A, l. wing skinning almost done > >What is the advantage of putting power supplies in each wing tip..other >than keeping high voltage wires from running through the wings? Would this >cut down on noise? > > >>Plus you should decide if you are going to put a strobe power supply on >>each wingtip or not. That will drive the wire size/type that you will >>need as well. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Supply
I too used the Aeroflash units and attached them to the outboard wing rib using nutplates (reinforced rib with angle). I did not make the tip removable but cut an access plate in the tip on the underside. I can get to the units if ever need be. 120 hours later they work great..... > >I bought the Aeroflash units from Cleaveland Tools. One supply in each >wing tip. You will need a line for the strobe and a line for the >position lights. > Richard E. Bibb RV-4 N144KT Oak Hill, VA rbibb(at)fore.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "m.hanson" <paintbox(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: electric vs manual
Date: Jun 09, 1998
I am interested in hearing some thoughts both pro and con on manual vs electric aileron trim, flaps and elevator trim. My emmpenage kit was ordered with electric trim, but no work on that area yet so it's still an option. My main concern with the electric option is reliability of the systems. Any thoughts from listers who've had experience with both types would be welcome. THANKYOU Marc Hanson paintbox(at)rconnect.com 6A- HS riveting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Roger Bocox" <rbocox(at)ryko.com>
Subject: Rover Engines
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Ted, The 215 CID engine from GM was sold in 1965 to Rover. The engines can be used, and are basically the same. The Belted Air Power drive will bolt up to it. Most parts are still available for the engine. You have to do some looking for engines, though. Every once in a while, one is for sale in Sport Aviation. You can't get some parts though. I could not find headers. Contact Jess Meyers at BAP for more info. He knows everything about the engine. You will need the shop manual for the engine before you go too far. There is also a very good book, about $30.00, called "Tuning the Rover V-8 Engine". Go to any good book store, and have them search their database for the book. Roger Bocox (rbocox(at)ryko.com) RV-6A N872RF in Des Moines area ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Re: electrical noise
<3.0.1.16.19980603231422.464f085a(at)dtc.net> <3.0.1.16.19980608140849.2367248a(at)dtc.net> > >Next, I pulled the cowl and found a capacitor whose wire had broken free > >of the alternator. Thanks Robert, I was in the shop last night and I think I was able to get a reasonable re-connection to the stub sticking out of the capacitor body. I'll reinstall it in a week or two when I do my annual. If it works, great! If not, I'll call Newark and order the part you suggested. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net>
Subject: Re: ProSeal alternative?
McLaughlJR(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Rob - Thanks for the tips. I admittedly went too slow on riveting up my one > tank. And the later the nights wore on, the slower I got. Did you have a > helper, or do it yourself? Also, since it has been a little while, I'm not > sure but that I may have used four tubes instead of the stated three. I had a helper for back-riveting the stiffener angles on the tank bottoms, and for riveting the four interior ribs. I did the end ribs (and all the stuff that gets attached to them) myself. Set-up makes all the difference. I had everything laid out and the surface prepared, before mixing the sealant. For the stiffener angles, I taped the rivets to the skin, applied sealant to the skin, and squished the angle down on top of it - pressing it in hard. For the ribs, I applied a bead to the rib contact surface and slid it down into the tank. It was easier to put it almost all the way down into the tank and then rotate it perpendicular to the skin (but not yet touching) and then slide it the rest of the way down. I inserted four ribs, and then started riveting. By the time the riveting was done, the sealant was harder, but not yet set up. I then applied some to the shop heads. -- -------- Rob Rimbold rimbold(at)ntr.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cornyn Drug Store" <acornyn(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: mogas
I am new to the list so I hope that I am not asking an old question. You can get an STC (not that we need one) to run mogas in O series Lycomings but not IO or TIO motors. If you run mogas in IO or TIO Lycomings, what happens? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Re: Strobe Power Supply- location
<< I bought the Aeroflash units from Cleaveland Tools. One supply in each wing tip. You will need a line for the strobe and a line for the position lights. The big advantage is the price - $420. However, you must make the wing tip removable, at some small cost for the nutplates, dimple die, countersink, etc. >> This is true for some applications (RMD landing light users for one). Let's look at it another way- most folks using the 3-in-1 light assy's will be set up for night ops, and will have landing lites, right? I have recommended that builders mount the power supplies to the fwd side of the spar, behind the landing lite assy. Access to the power supply is thru the landing lite lens hole. The wingtip can be pop rivetted on in this case, making the tedious to install nutplate/tiny screw attach un-necessary. I try to keep in mind while building: I'll be the one to fix anything that goes wrong, so why not make servicing this a/c as easy as possible? Another aspect of the K.I.S.S. principle... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick Fogerson <rfogerson(at)baf.com>
Subject: electric vs manual
Date: Jun 09, 1998
I initially installed the manual but found it to be rather awkward, particularly with a passenger. I really like the electric. No problems to date. The switch is on the stick grip and very handy. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 7:54 AM Subject: RV-List: electric vs manual I am interested in hearing some thoughts both pro and con on manual vs electric aileron trim, flaps and elevator trim. My emmpenage kit was ordered with electric trim, but no work on that area yet so it's still an option. My main concern with the electric option is reliability of the systems. Any thoughts from listers who've had experience with both types would be welcome. THANKYOU Marc Hanson paintbox(at)rconnect.com 6A- HS riveting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Re: mogas (in injected motors)
<< If you run mogas in IO or TIO Lycomings, what happens? >> I can't say what will happen in a turbo motor (there could be an octane deficiency), but I run mogas in my Rocket (IO-540) all the time. No problems in the air, but the injector sure doesn't like that mogas while on the ground- lots of vapor lock. I keep 100LL in the left tank for ground ops and climb. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Please Read! - List Downtime...
Listers, After many months of waiting, I will be at long last upgrading my Internet connectivity! Depending on the condition of my line, I could be getting as high as a 1.1Mb dedicated connection. At the same time, I will be moving all of the Matronics web pages, the RV and Zenith List web pages, and the Matronics FTP server over to a new and much faster server. All of the current hostnames will remain the same; however, the IP subnet will change and a DNS update will occur. After a DNS update, about 80% of the world will be able to communicate right away, with the remaining 20% figuring it out over a period of a week or so. So, what does this all really mean? Starting tomorrow, Wednesday June 10 well it goes, List messages may or may not be processed, and some messages will likely be lost. I would strongly recommend _not_ posting any messages and stable, I will post a messages to the Lists indicating that things are back online and DNS is at the 80% level. This will likely be late Wednesday or probably Thursday. Note that access to the Matronics Web and FTP sites will also be affected and may be unavailable until Thursday as well. Thank you for your patience during this period of transition. I'm confident that the new service will be noticable improvment in performance and reliability and since all of the computer systems providing the services will now be locally resident, administration should be far easier too! Look for an update soon! Matt Dralle RV and Zenith List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: Terrible accident
Date: Jun 09, 1998
I ran across this on the NTSB website and thought I would pass it on. We probably all have jumped an aircraft before so this may give some food for thought for the group. NTSB Identification: SEA98LA085 Accident occurred JUN-03-98 at EVERETT, WA Aircraft: Piper PA-30, registration: N98NT Injuries: 1 Fatal. On June 3, 1998, approximately 1735 Pacific daylight time, a Piper PA-30, N98NT, registered to and being operated by a commercial pilot, sustained minor damage when it collided with a parked/unoccupied Cessna 150G (N3290J) on the ramp at the Snohomish County (Paine) Field, Everett, Washington. The pilot of the PA-30, who was outside his aircraft at the time of the accident was fatally injured. Visual meteorological conditions existed and no flight plan had been filed. The flight, which was to have been operated under 14CFR91, was believed to have been intended as a personal flight. A pilot rated bystander, who had arrived to preflight his aircraft, noticed the Piper entangled with the Cessna, and the pilot lying on the ground. He rendered assistance to the pilot, who was conscious at the time. After instructions from the injured pilot, another bystander entered the PA-30 and shut down the running engine (the opposing engine had stopped operating upon impact with the Cessna). The pilot bystander radioed the Paine Field tower and requested emergency assistance. A helicopter airlifted the injured pilot, who had lost his left leg and sustained shoulder and opposite knee injuries, to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle, where he subsequently expired early on the morning of June 4. Personnel employed at Paine Field reported that the pilot kept his aircraft in a local hangar and that the doors to the hangar were found closed with the aircraft collision located nearby. A single chock (entangled with a set of jumper cables), which had been reportedly positioned around the nose wheel, was observed lying on the ground a short distance from the PA-30. On-site examination by an inspector from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) indicated that the PA-30 pilot had used the jumper cables to start the aircraft's engine(s) after removing the aircraft from the hangar and closing the hangar doors. With both engines operating, the pilot exited the aircraft to remove the nose-wheel chock, during which the aircraft began to roll and turn right. The aircraft rolled into the parked Cessna during which the pilot, who was underneath the aircraft, was thrown into one of the propellers. The pilot subsequently crawled out from under the aircraft and approximately 20 feet back outboard and behind the right wing where he was found. Although no flight plan had been filed, the FAA inspector found a fuel slip within the aircraft indicating that the aircraft had taken on a substantial fuel load at 1507 hours earlier on the day of the accident. The accident site is not within visual line of site of the Paine Field tower. ************************************************* * Gary Fesenbek * * Meridium Inc. * * (540) 344-9205 x112 * * gfesenbek(at)meridium.com * * http://www.meridium.com * ************************************************* ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Wire Runs
Date: Jun 08, 1998
> > 1. Should I install a second conduit ( Black Flexable Stuff Van sells) in each > Wing. > 2. Should I pull the wire in now or wait till later, > 3. If the answere to #2 is yes what type of wire . I decided to install the lights later and was easily able to pull wire thru the flex conduit even with the tips pop riveted on. The cut outs for the wing tip kit leaves a large hole. I will add that to do it over I would install the battery box perhaps a 1/2" further aft to enable easier conduit runs under the box and up the firewall. I didn't like how others drilled many holes thru the forward bulkheads along the side of the fuselage so ran all of my circuits and fuel system down the center under the battery box. kevin 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net>
Subject: Re: Rover Engines
> >Ted, > The 215 CID engine from GM was sold in 1965 to Rover. The engines can >be used, and are basically the same. The Belted Air Power drive will >bolt up to it.---- In the past I had some arms length experiance with the GM-215 cu. in./ Rover 3500 cc. At that time we pulled in execss of 225 HP. chassis dyno test rated. This from stock block, stock crankshaft, normal asperation. The Lotus espirit(sp?) this engine was put into was driven hard daily in city traffic and was extreemly fast in the city and on the open road. this engine stood up very well and lived a very long life. During that time there was talk of using an Olds crank from some other cu. in. engine to bring the displacement up to the area of 300 cu. in.. At the time we avoided this choice due to costs,parts, machining etc.. Also there was talk of Australian factory built engines in the 300/350 cu. in. range. These production engines were said to be based on the same Rover 3500 block, That is to say a bolt in/on swap. I am inclined to think the bigger/longer bore/stroke in the above "rumored" Aussie Power plant might be better suited to aircraft application. Mabe some of our down under RV'ers could advise as to the validity to the above rumors, the availability of such engines and parts, and if any are being, or ever have been used in aircraft. Does Jess Meyers at BAP have any info. on this?. This thread got my motor running!. jim RV6-eh tanks next B.C.canada * When dreams come true the sky's the limit * jjewell(at)okanagan.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Inlet vs outlet air
Does anyone have a formula or even rule of thumb for the the area of the outlet air as related to the inlet air of the cowling. I found a rather interesting article in one of the the Experimenter magazine on this subject. However I believe have forgotten what I understood on the exposure I had some of the formula applications in algebra. It has been nearly 50 years you know. This article worked a formula at a 70 mph climb on 100 degree day. Their answer came out that the outlet needed to be about 1.22 x larger then the inlet air of the cowling for the required cooling of an engine. This was mostly they noted as the expansion due to the heat that was extract from the engine. It went on to say that for high performance aircraft this would be somewhat less. It was suggested that it should be figured on case by case conditions. Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: Ralph Koger <kogrh(at)willinet.net>
Subject: Re: Boone Flyin
> >Could anyone post the schedule for the Boone Flyin this month? > >Tailwinds, >Doug Rozendaal >dougr(at)petroblend.com >www.petroblend.com/dougr >The Boone, Ia fly-in is schedule for June 20th and all RVer"s are invited. I will give notice about it in the coming days. Ralph Koger 515 432-5714 Boone, Ia > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Rover Engines
jjewell(at)okanagan.net wrote: > Also there > was talk of Australian factory built engines in the 300/350 cu. in. range. > These production engines were said to be based on the same Rover 3500 > block, > That is to say a bolt in/on swap. Sounds ideal. I haven't heard of anything. Incidentally, the 3500 engine was also used in the Leyland P76 here (perhaps that was also available in the UK or Aus). And I think also the Landrover and Range Rover series of vehicles? Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Jon's seats.
Excuse me for using the list, again. Just want to let everyone who ordered a seat know the order has gone out and I am waiting for confirmation from Jon's group. Thanks. Michael. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Bristol" <bbristol(at)intranet.ca>
Subject: RV6A C-GCTZ
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Hi Guys, Today the final inspection was given my RV6A and it should be in the air shortly. It took 3 years and over 3500 hours to complete. This includes my own interior as well the exterior paint. It is powered by an 0320 H2AD engine which required a bit of engineering but was worth it. Full panel with 1 King Com, Transp, Intercom, encoder, Ed Sterba wood prop, brought the empty weight up to 1060 pounds. A little heavy but comfortable. I will advise of first flight. bbristol(at)intranet.ca inspection was given my RV6A and it should be in the air shortly. It took 3 years and over 3500 hours to complete. This includes my own interior as well the exterior paint. It is powered by an 0320 H2AD engine which required a bit of engineering but was worth it. Full panel with 1 King Com, Transp, Intercom, encoder, Ed Sterba wood prop, brought the empty weight up to 1060 pounds. A little heavy but comfortable. I will advise of first flight. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Rudder Cable Fairing
Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB)Arizona Mounting Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
>Does anyone have a formula or even rule of thumb for the the area of the >outlet air as related to the inlet air of the cowling. I found a rather >interesting article in one of the the Experimenter magazine on this subject. >However I believe have forgotten what I understood on the exposure I had >some of the formula applications in algebra. It has been nearly 50 years you >know. >This article worked a formula at a 70 mph climb on 100 degree day. Their >answer came out that the outlet needed to be about 1.22 x larger then the >inlet air of the cowling for the required cooling of an engine. This was >mostly they noted as the expansion due to the heat that was extract from the >engine. It went on to say that for high performance aircraft this would be >somewhat less. It was suggested that it should be figured on case by case >conditions. >Denny - RV-6 finishing As a matter of first hand experience with a water cooled auto engine conversion which ran hot on all but the coolest days, I fought that battle and won. The correct answer was not 1.22 x inlet, but rather closer to 3 x the inlet. After *MUCH* frustration and several mods to the existing inlets and outlets with larger and larger inlets and adjustable cowl flaps, an electric fan to help cool the radiator, etc. I went back to square one. I read that Dick Rutan and Jeanna Yeager had problems cooling the liquid cooled engine on the Voyager, and that they had run numerous tests aided by the HIGH DOLLAR engineers from Continental, etc. They finally decided to measure the cooling on Dick's old Toyota since it *NEVER* ran hot in the worst Mojave heat. They discovered that the key is a 60 mph pressure differential across the radiator. They rigged up an old helicopter ASI with the pitot port in front of the radiator and the static port behind the radiator. At even modest speeds they found that the radiator had the 60 mph differential, and it cooled well even when they blocked off most all the radiator. They then went back Voyager and "instrumented" it with the heli ASI and proceeded to do what ever was needed to get 60 MPH on the ASI. Instantly the temps came into line and they flew it just like that all the way around the world. The basic problem was that the inlet was TOO BIG and the outlet was TOO SMALL. The air would "pile up" in the inlet, and as the air approached the inlet it would move out of the way because the inlet was "full". (please no flames, I know this is not exactly how Hoerner, etal would explain it, but you get the general idea.) By opening up the exit area they created a place for the air to go, and the air flowed through the radiator in sufficient volume to cool the Voyager's aft engine for the flight. I applied the same method, and found that I didn't have 60 mph indication on my cooling ASI. I then examined the Long EZ cooling system and measured the inlet and outlet areas. I closed down *MY* inlet to approximate the LongEZ. Then I oped up the exhaust to get 60 mph on the ASI. NO MORE COOLING PROBLEMS! Did I mention that the cruise and top speed rose dramatically? Seems that all that extra inlet area was tripping the flow over a large setion of the fuselage and causing lots of drag. In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: Rover Engines
Date: Jun 09, 1998
>Also there was talk of Australian factory built engines in the 300/350 >cu. in. range. These production engines were said to be based on >the same Rover 3500 block, That is to say a bolt in/on swap. >I am inclined to think the bigger/longer bore/stroke in the above >"rumored" Aussie Power plant might be better suited to aircraft >application. > >This thread got my motor running!. > >jim RV6-eh tanks next >B.C.canada The book "Tuning Rover V8 Engines" by David Hardcastle (on page 23) relates the Leyland P76 crankshaft is the largest crank ever used in the Buick/Rover engine. It had a 3.5" stroke and larger main journals at 2.5". It was used on the Leyland 73'-75' Terrier light trucks and the P76 Saloon cars. This is a great book. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: Rover Engines
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Buick 300 crank works great too. Search the Web for info on this swap. Search for: buick 215 rover ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 09, 1998
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
From: gretz-aero(at)Juno.com (Warren Gretz)
I make and provide to builders an alternative electric elevator trim kit. It takes the best parts of both the electric elevator like van supplies, and the best parts of the manual elevator and makes a wonderful hybrid system. I also manufacture a heated pitot tube mount for RV's and sell two different "certified" heated pitot tubes. If you would like flyers on my products please e-mail me with you postal address and I will send you the flyers. I will also answer any questions you may have about my systems on e-mail. Warren Gretz, (Gretz Aero) 3664 East Lake Drive Littleton, CO 80121 (303) 770-3811 gretz-aero(at)juno.com writes: > >I am interested in hearing some thoughts both pro and con on manual vs >electric aileron trim, flaps and elevator trim. My emmpenage kit was >ordered with electric trim, but no work on that area yet so it's still >an >option. My main concern with the electric option is reliability of >the >systems. Any thoughts from listers who've had experience with both >types >would be welcome. THANKYOU > >Marc Hanson >paintbox(at)rconnect.com >6A- HS riveting > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Matronics Back Online!
Listers, The Internet upgrade was a complete success! The connection wasn't up in time for a DNS update on Wednesday, and so DNS was updated early this morning (Thursday) and it appears that most servers around the Internet have been successfully updated. With the new connection, *all* Matronics network services are now run out of one location under my control and should provide a very stable environment. You should notice an improvment the the responsiveness of Matronics web pages and hopefully better turn around on messages posted to the Lists. Be sure to try out the new web server and let me know how the 'performance' feels. And now that the new web server is running, I will be bringing the all new, and significantly improved, Archive Search Engine online in just a few days! Beta test input has been very positive, and I think everyone will be very pleased with the new features and PERFORMANCE! Following the posting of this message, I will enable the Lists again and start posting the messages that were received during the Network upgrade. Best Regards, Matt Dralle RV-List and Zenith-List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: "Charles H. Ennis" <105523.2542(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: Subscribe
subscribe 105523.2542(at)compuserve.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JHeadric(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 1998
Subject: Warnke prop
Hi Listers- Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A? I haven't had any experience with one before but I can get one pretty cheap. Is it worth taking a chance on? Or should I stick with the PaceSetter that has always worked good for me? Jim RV6a-finishing kit. Fitting canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 1998
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Dear listers, i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing kit. also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built spars? and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8 thanks scott reviere ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
Subject: List Working?
Date: Jun 10, 1998
Is the list working? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Fairing
Paul Besing wrote: > > Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit > instead of > using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB)Arizona > Mounting Empennage > Paul, Avery's has aluminum cable fairings. $10.75 for 2 rudder and 1 elevator fairing. Trim to Fit! Ed Cole ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Fairing
Paul, We sell a set of stamped aluminum rudder cable fairings including one for each side of the fuselage and an extra for the trim tab cable exit. The price is $10.75 plus shipping. George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Burger" <hbarca(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: LOm engine mounts for RV-6
Date: Jun 11, 1998
I am looking for some mounts in order to mount a LOM (Moravia) engine in a n RV-6 so that it will work reliably. If anyone can help me I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks, Scott Burger email: hbarca(at)hotmail.com Nunca tenga miedo de lograr... Never be afraid to achieve... N'avez jamais peur d'achever... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 1998
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
<< In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L >> I have an article (Contact! magazine) around here somewher about a fella who put an augmenter system on his EZ (powered by a Honda, I think). The outlet was much smaller than the intake! Would this apply to your system? BTW- what engine and a/c are you using? Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRoss10612(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 1998
Subject: Aileron Balance
Regarding RV ailerons, I am curious about any builders that may have balanced their ailerons to 100%. What was the amount of weight added to achieve this balance, and if so, what method was used to add weight? RV-8 ailerons are of particular interest to me, as my ailerons seem to be trailing edge heavy. All comments welcome. Jon Ross RV-80094 Skinning fuselage. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 1998
From: photoman <innovate(at)dallas.net>
Subject: hello
Hello everyone, I'm new to the list and not getting very many letters. How many a day on average? Thanks. David ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 1998
From: Randy McCallister <rmccalli(at)runet.edu>
Subject: Question on RV-6 Elevator horn/rib
Can anyone help with this one? Does the rib above the elevator horn (R-405) fit snuggly on top of the horn. In other words, the rib flange shoves down between the horn and the spar. Do I groove the rib flange around the attach bolt as much as possible to get it to fit right on top of R-405? I am confused by the drawing. The rivets won't go into the rib flange if I don't push it all the way but this is not specifically shown on the drawing. thanks, Randy RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 11, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)mail.ic.net>
Matt Dralle 510-606-1001 , Maxine Kelley , Michelle Steiner , Rory Duncan
Subject: change of email address
This is just a mass emailing to inform everyone that my email address is changing to patk(at)iols.net effective immediately. The old address will be good for a few days more, and the website will be changing over to www.flion.com in a couple of weeks if the registration process goes smoothly. Thanks for everyone's patience and sorry that I could not send a personal message to everyone, but we are busy moving. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Bob Haan <bhaan(at)easystreet.com>
Subject: Meet @ Design Auto Conf DAC San Fran
I will be at DAC, the Design Automation Conference, in San Francisco Monday 6/15 through Thursday 6/18. If you are attending and would like to chat regarding RVs, I can be found at the VeriBest Booth #608 or we can arrange a time to meet via e-mail bhaan(at)easystreet.com. Bob Haan bhaan(at)easystreet.com Portland, OR RV6A 24461 Working on Canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au>
Subject: RV-List:Rudder Cable Fairing
Date: Jun 10, 1998
Paul, Murphy Aircraft have a nice rudder cable fairing off the Rebel, and fits perfectly on any RV. I am not sure what the part number is, and they are not expenisve. Murphy E-mail mursales(at)murphyair.com Be carefull when drilling, they are easy to crack. Ken Glover Newcastle OZ cable fairing off the Rebel, and fits perfectly on any RV. I am not sure what the part number is, and they are not expenisve. Murphy E-mail Date: Jun 11, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)iols.net>
Subject: Moving to Chicago
Hi. Just wanted to follow up to the 'list and let everyone know that the move to Chicago is in full swing. Judi has her still-wet diploma and we have just taken our apartment in Palos Hills, a suburb on the Southwest side of Chicago. My thanks to all the area 'listers who submitted advice and help; I got everything I wanted in an apartment except a place to build. I'll be looking for a garage or shop in the Palos Hills area if anyone can help. The project is still in the apartment in Ann Arbor until I can close the wing. That should be done in a couple of weeks and I will then move it all to Palos Hills. Once in Chicagoland, I will take a break in building while I seek new employment, get settled, and try to change my website. I'll be adding new pictures (at long last!), including ones from the move. Once established, I hope to continue with the fuselage. As you can see, my email has changed. The web site remains the same until I get arrangements settled here; I'm trying to get a personal domain registered. Once the website is moved and updated, I will post an announcement on the 'list. Thanks to the readers who have asked about updates and shown great patience - I hope to give you something new soon. For any newcomers, the current RV project pages are at
http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm and you will probably do best to try the book-styled presentation (I think I will retire the other pages in the update). If one of the Chicagoland RVer's would tell me where on Clow airport you guys meet, I will try to make it out there soon. I look forward to meeting you all and getting back into the project in the near future. Thanks a bunch to everyone again for making this move so easy and exciting. PatK - RV-6A - On the move! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: Rudder Cable Fairing
Date: Jun 10, 1998
You can get some aluminum faring from Orndoff and I think also from Avery or Cleveland. They are not that hard to make though. ************************************************* * Gary Fesenbek * * Meridium Inc. * * (540) 344-9205 x112 * * gfesenbek(at)meridium.com * * http://www.meridium.com * ************************************************* > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Besing [SMTP:rv8er(at)doitnow.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 1998 10:46 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Rudder Cable Fairing > > > Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit > instead of > using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method? > > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB)Arizona > Mounting Empennage > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Ralph Koger <kogrh(at)willinet.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Fairing
> >Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of >using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method? > > >Paul Besing >RV-6A (197AB)Arizona >Mounting Empennage >For my RV I formed fairings for the rudder cable exits out of soft aluminum and cut them into a teardrop shape and then stuck them on with RTV silicone. Aluminum and no riviting and looks good. Ralph Koger RV6A N16RK Boone, Ia > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylortel.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Fairing
> Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of > using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method? > > Paul Besing Paul: Avery Tools sells a set of neat aluminum fairings, actually you get three in the package. I used these on my -4 and they look pretty good. Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "kevin lane" <n3773(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: tire pressure
Date: Jun 09, 1998
On the trip to Sun-N-Fun I discovered I had a low tire. In my hanger I have a straight inflater with the built in pressure gauge. After three airports I gave up finding a similar type. Mostly they had the long pipe with an angled head which inflates from both the acute and obtuse sides. They will not fit in the access hole. I really didn't feel like removing the wheel pants while on my trip. At a Sun-N-Fun booth I found some very nice steel extensions for a buck which can be screwed on while adding air and then of course removed. I meant to return and buy the entire box but never did. I strongly recommend getting one of these and also cutting the access hole in the pant big enough (1" -1 1/2") to reach in with your fingers and remove the cap. Brian made his like 9/16" and has some little tool to remove the cap, but when you're laying out on the hot tarmac it might not seem so cool. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hal Harle" <hal(at)axs4u.net>
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Jun 10, 1998
unsubscribe hal(at)axs4u.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Fairing
Paul, Avery sells an aluminum one. It work very well. Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying >Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of >using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method? > > >Paul Besing >RV-6A (197AB)Arizona >Mounting Empennage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com>
Subject: $$$$$ for the NEW RV LIST ???
types="text/plain,text/html"; --=====================_45383504==_.ALT >Listers, > >The Internet upgrade was a complete success! The connection wasn't up in >time for a DNS update on Wednesday, and so DNS was updated early this morning >(Thursday) and it appears that most servers around the Internet have been >successfully updated. Hey gang, The Cyberspace merchants are in love with Matt Dralle and RV's and gave Matt a whole new 1.1 Mb dedicated connection for free. His new server doesn't cost a penny. And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit purchasers. Ok, is the message coming through? Let's send some money. With 800 to 1000 people on the list, it shouldn't burden any one individual. Those of us who can't wait to see what's on the RV list each day should do our part now. The other RV listers who are just lurking or have recently joined... your time will come and you, too, will see the value of the list and understand the time, energy and money Matt puts into the list. He has never asked to be repaid (which is an endearing trait or a character flaw... I can't figure out which). So it is our responsibility to keep Matt's tanks full. Matt's address is: Matt G. Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, California 94551 Louis I. Willig larywil(at)home.com (610) 668-4964 Philadelphia, PA --=====================_45383504==_.ALT The Cyberspace merchants are in love with Matt Dralle and RV's and gave server doesn't cost a penny. And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit purchasers. Ok, is the message coming individual. Those of us who can't wait to see what's on the RV list each day should do our part now. The other RV listers who are just lurking or have recently joined... your time will come and you, too, will see the value of the list and understand the time, energy and money Matt puts into the list. He has never asked to be repaid (which is an endearing trait or a character flaw... I can't figure out which). So it is our --=====================_45383504==_.ALT-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Norman Younie" <nyounie(at)pacificcoast.net>
Subject: Re: Keep that Subject Line!
Date: Jun 11, 1998
I have not received any mail from the list for the last two days .Is there a problem? ---------- > From: RV-List Tip of the Day <rv-list(at)matronics.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Keep that Subject Line! > Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 11:30 AM > > <<< No Message Collected >>> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hal Harle" <hal(at)axs4u.net>
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: Jun 12, 1998
unsubscribe hal(at)axs4u.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Henry and Joan Lumb" <lumb(at)flinet.com>
Subject: Whelen Strobe Cable Problem
Date: Jun 12, 1998
I ran into a quality problem with the 10 ft cable assembly supplied with the Whelen Single Strobe Assembly (purchased thru Van's in May '97) The cable assy comes with the strobe-end connector preassembled to the cable. The cable wires could be pulled out of this connector with moderate finger pressure. Examination of the connector contacts showed that both the wire crimps and insulation-support crimps were undercrimped. You can inspect the insulation-support crimp without removing the contacts from the connector. In my case, it was obvious that this crimp was barely in contact with the insulation. If you have a contact-extraction tool and a crimper, you can remove the contacts and re-crimp them successfully. If not, get a replacement from Whelen. (860) 526-9504 I suggest not soldering the wire crimp since this generally melts the wire insulation, making the insulation-support crimp ineffective. Note: Van's says that they now make this cable assembly in-house. Hank Lumb W. Palm Beach, FL RV6A Fuselage. the 10 ft cable assembly supplied with the Whelen Single Strobe Assembly (purchased thru strobe-end of this color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Examination of the connector contacts showed that both the wire crimps insulation-support crimp was obvious that this crimp was barely in contact with the tool and a crimper, you can remove the contacts and re-crimp them crimp since this generally melts the wire insulation, making the insulation-support crimp this cable ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SHawksw523(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Surplus Engines and Propellors
Hi I am a new RV8 builder and had the good fortune to visit the factory recently and had a warm welcome from some RVators at Arlington WA (special thanks to Marty for the flight). In the conversations somebody mentioned this list and a posting from someone in the UK regarding surplus stock engines and hoffman props. I have been unable to find them on the search engine - can anyone help? Also does anyone know where | can get Mar Hide self etching primer in the UK? Many thanks Stuart ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
A>Did I mention that the cruise and top speed rose dramatically? Seems that >all that extra inlet area was tripping the flow over a large setion of the >fuselage and causing lots of drag. > >In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake. Bob, the article that I had mentioned was in the EAA Experimenter, Jan. '93. It said in other words, "The exit air must handle the inlet air plus the expanded volume caused by removed engine heat". The interesting thing about this is that the RV-6 cowl, that I have "uninstalled", measures "very roughly" at the inlets a total of 56 sq.in. and 40.5 sq.in. for the outlet. This is in reverse of the article theory and your findings by a long ways, giving only .73 X the inlet for the exit. (If my figures are right, which I will not swear to.) Is the difference in what you found due to liquid cooling in your case and pusher type in the other, as apposed to air cooled tractor types? The article stated that the air "comes out at a velocity that is slightly greater ideally, but maybe less than, the free airstream." This article deals with slower airplanes than the RV series and states "for a high performance airplane much less exit area is require". The reason I am going into this is I am preparing to install the round hole inlets and a plentum on my RV-6, O-320. Trying to come up with a starting point for the exit air is my concern. With expert help, that I personally do not have contact with, the inlet holes are figured at roughly 35.5 sq.in. for the two. Any other and/or better ideas out there? Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 10, 1998
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
In a message dated 6/10/98 1:33:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, unistar(at)mindspring.com writes: << Does anyone have a formula or even rule of thumb for the the area of the >outlet air as related to the inlet air of the cowling. >> A good rule of thumb is 55 sq. in for 200 HP inlet area and 20% greater or 66 sq. in. outlet area. Also the inlet should expand to 4 times the volume to slow the air down and allow it to get through the radiator easier and with less drag Not exact numbers but it's worked for 2 that I know of. Regards, Merle (Yeah, the Chevy guy) Miller ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Fairing
Avery sells an aluminum rudder cable exit fairing. You can also make one yourself pretty easily. I did so by drilling a hole the diameter of my pneumatic squeezer plunger in a block of wood on a shallow diagonal. I then cut the block in half and stuck the plunger in one side, stuck a piece of AL on top of it, and pressed the other side on top of it to form the AL around the plunger. Worked great. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing > Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 19:46:26 -0700 (MST) > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> > Subject: RV-List: Rudder Cable Fairing > > > Has anyone come up with an A.B.S. or fiberglass rudder cable exit instead of > using the 'ole hole and silicone tubing method? > > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB)Arizona > Mounting Empennage > > > > Randall Henderson Engineering Design Team, Inc. randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 12, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com> Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 4:37 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: SPAR HELP > >i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing kit. >scott reviere > Scott, I built my own spars. They're not a problem. If you can build the rest of the plane you can build the spars. The Philiston spars are wonderful to look at but when the plane is finished you can't see em anyhow. My advise is to spend that money on another radio or something! The 6-A spars are different than the 8's. Tommy Closeing 6-A Wings Ridgetop Tennessee> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Tip up Canopy
Date: Jun 10, 1998
Listers, Thanks to the help from some of you, I figured it was about time to make the cut across the roll bar of my RV-6A tip up canopy. It was a success, even though the line may not be as pretty as some of you fellas have done. No cracks so far. Hopefully my luck will continue. I tried the rear window after the cut and some sanding. It sure looks good to me! Maybe this bird will fly someday. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Struggling with the canopy) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Aileron Balance
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Van's Bill Benedict posted a reply on this very topic about a year ago after people started speculating about pouring lead into their ailerons. He advised to follow the plans. The ailerons are as balanced as the designer designed them to be. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont RV-6A battery box -----Original Message----- Regarding RV ailerons, I am curious about any builders that may have balanced their ailerons to 100%. What was the amount of weight added to achieve this balance, and if so, what method was used to add weight? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SHawksw523(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 11, 1998
Subject: Surplus propellors and engines
Hi I am a new RV8 builder and had the good fortune to visit the factory recently and had a warm welcome from some RVators at Arlington WA (special thanks to Marty). In the conversations somebody mentioned this list and a posting from someone in the UK regarding surplus stock engines and hoffman props. I have been unable to find them on the search engine - can anyone help? Also does anyone know where | can get Mar Hide self etching primer in the UK? Many thanks Stuart ________________________________________________________________________________ Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Ron Caldwell <rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Suction/Vacuum Pressure
I ran my engine (lyc 0-320) for the first time last monday night on my RV6A. This was an exciting experience. Of course, I started checking engine gauges to see if everything was working. I noticed that my Vacuum/Suction guage was reading zero even when the engine was reving at 1500 rpm. I have sinced recheck my vacuum hoses to ensure there not crimped or plugged. Now I wondering if I have my vacuum system correctly installed? I have both a DG and Atitude Indicator. I have the vacuum ports on both these gauges going to the Vacuum Regulator. I have the two Air Inlets ports going to my Cockpit Air Filter. I have the Gauge Ports connected to my Suction Gauge. I am curious about my Suction Gauge Ports. One is marked with a "P" and the other with a "V". I wasn't sure if it matter which of my two gyro guages these port connect too. Another possibly is my Vacuum Pump is Used. Perhaps its now not working properly. It worked fine about six months ago. Is there any ways to test the Vacuum Pump for proper operation? Thanks very much for your help. Ron Caldwell rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net ________________________________________________________________________________ Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
Date: Jun 10, 1998
From: Ron Caldwell <rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net>
Subject: Oil Cooler Installation
I have installed a Harrison style Oil Cooler from my Old Cherokee on my new RV6a. I installed the Oil Cooler on my firewall. After running the engine for the first time, I removed the 3" air inlet hose which connects to top of right rear baffle and feeds air to the Oil Cooler, and found a fine mist of oil on the inside of the hose. Is this normal? I was surprised? I didn't think oil would get up into this hose but I don't know. Now I'm wondering if I installed my Oil Cooler hoses correctly. I have a Lyc 0-320 and ran the oil hose from the top of my engine to the Cooler Port stamped with a "P". I ran oil cooler hose next to the Oil filter down to the Oil Cooler Port with no markings. Does this sound right? Thanks for any ideas or suggestions. Ron Caldwell rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: tire pressure
At a Sun-N-Fun booth I found some very >nice steel extensions for a buck which can be screwed on while adding air >and then of course removed Camping World or most motorhome/trailer supply have what you discribed. Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Warnke prop
>Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A? Jim, I don't have personal experience with them. All the local users I have asked were more than happy with Warnke. The Cafe numbers sure seem good. It was the one I was going to get if I hadn't stumbled into a C/S buy. BTW, I see Mrs. Warnke is continueing the business. Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Warnke prop
Go with the Warnke....great prop on my 3...Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chat Daniel" <cdaniel(at)fnbbaldwin.com>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Scott Aerodynamically the wing on the -8 and -6 are the same, but the internal structure is different. ---------- > From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: SPAR HELP > Date: Thursday, June 11, 1998 3:48 PM > > > Dear listers, > i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing kit. > also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built spars? > and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8 > thanks > scott reviere > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: tire pressure
Kevin: Go down to your local plumbing shop and you can get a great chromeplated snap-in plug to fit in the hole in the wheel cover...Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DFaile(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Michael Robbins snail mail address
Sorry for the intrusion on the list. I sent Michael Robbins information on registering (transfering registration) aircraft by snail mail and it was returned. Could he please respond to me OFF LIST with his address. Thanks, david faile, fairfield, ct mcfii/a&p eaa technical counselor/flight advisor christen eagle ii since '82 (n13bf) rv6 n44df started ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure
Did you notice if your gauges were "spinning down" after engine shut down? If so your vacuum system is working but the gauge is at fault. If they were not spinning down your gauge is correct, you have zero vacuum. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Installation
In a message dated 6/12/98 9:20:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net writes: > I removed the 3" air inlet hose which > connects to top of right rear baffle and feeds air to the Oil Cooler, > and found a fine mist of oil on the inside of the hose. Is this > normal? No it is not. Your oil is to stay INSIDE the engine. Sounds like you might have a pin hole in your cooler on one of the lines. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Question on RV-6 Elevator horn/rib
Randy McCallister wrote: > > > Can anyone help with this one? Does the rib above the elevator horn (R-405) > fit snuggly on top of the horn. In other words, the rib flange shoves down > between the horn and the spar. Do I groove the rib flange around the attach > bolt as much as possible to get it to fit right on top of R-405? I am > confused by the drawing. The rivets won't go into the rib flange if I don't > push it all the way but this is not specifically shown on the drawing. > Hi Randy, The R404 rib must have a "V" groove cut in it so that the 3/8" bolt can pass through it. I positioned the R405PD on the R404 and drew a circle through the hole onto the R404 flange, then cut the "V" notch out. Be sure to make the shim that goes under the R405PD and butts up against the R404 flange. You can do yourself a favor now and order the new prepunched R410($5) if you haven't already done so. That's the next pain in the butt. Good luck Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a(Straightening wing ribs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRoss10612(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance
<< Van's Bill Benedict posted a reply on this very topic about a year ago after people started speculating about pouring lead into their ailerons. He advised to follow the plans. The ailerons are as balanced as the designer designed them to be >> Yes, I am aware of that thread from last year, I was present on the list at that time. Still, there is some argument among aeronautical experts as to whether a target of 70% balance as a design criteria is adequate for flutter protection. Most current information specifies 100% balance at the speeds RV's operate. I am asking if anyone here on the list has in fact balanced to 100%. My own RV-8 ailerons would require about 1 lb 12 oz each to attain full static balance. I'm simply saying that "if it's not broke don't fix it" is not enough for me. Can anyone elaborate on the theory of this type of aileron on an RV wing being designed to be underbalanced as being the most flutter resitant, vs a 100% balance? Will it make matters worse to balance it to 100%? If so, what is the aerodynamic thoery applicable to the balance issue? Can someone here on the list explain an accepted theory (and quote the source) stating that it is more resistant to flutter to balance at 70% than at 100%? The RV-8 wing has a different spar, it is lighter than it's earlier evolutionary cousins. Vibration and resistance to flex are certainly different on the RV-8 wing than the other RV wings. This fact may dictate the need for more static balance than 70%. The same water pipe is used for balancing the RV-6 ailerons as the RV-8. The RV-8 has thicker skins, .020 vs .016. So the RV-8 aileron is in fact a bit tail heavier than RV-6 aileron. So in effect, we have a wing with different vibration nodes and an aileron that is even more underbalanced than the earlier, RV-6 wing. Again, can some enginneering types here on the list elaborate on this? This is not meant to be critical of Van. He is most probably the best designer in the homebuilt industry. Airplane design is a compromise, and this is one of those areas where a choice may have been made. It's a good bet that there will be more on the balance issue from the factory. Jon Ross RV-80094 Fuselage just about ready to come out of the ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure
I BELIEVE YOU WILL FIND THE PORT MARKED P WILL BE PRESSURE! ARE YOU TRYING TO RUN VACUUM INST ON PRESSURE? RV273SB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Terrance Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure
I was able to test my entire vacuum system using my household central vac. This way I was able to set up the regulator during operation without having the engine running. A good portable vacuum cleaner should be able to draw enough vacuum as well. All I used was lots of duct tape to seal the central vac hose to the Mil-6000 hose coming off the regulator at the firewall. Also found that the vacuum gauge was 1" out if calibration. I tested that against a water column that equalled 5"hg. A friend of mine uses a vacuum cleaner to test for leaks in the pressurized aircraft he maintains. Ron Caldwell wrote: > - > there any ways to test the Vacuum Pump for proper operation? Thanks > very much for your help. > > Ron Caldwell > rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tom Dukerich <TDukerich(at)ntninc.com>
Subject: Matronics Back Online!
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Matt, Just wanted to thank for all your efforts. You have gone above and beyond to provide us a great venue. Tom Dukerich ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com>
Subject: Aileron Balance
Date: Jun 12, 1998
I agree with the comments below and would add that the conditions the ailerons are exposed to in flight are 99 % dynamic due to airflow - not static as is being proposed by this discussion of adding lead to the couterweight to balance the surface on the ground in still air. I know I'll likely get realigned on the technical specifics by the experts, but the fact that the elevators or other surfaces balance statically is only a coincidence. The control surfaces, in conjunction with the control linkages and the surrounding airflow act as a dynamic mechanical system - and they may or may not balance statically. This is far as I care to venture into this touchy, technical subject...maybe someone who has working technical knowledge of this subject could offer a quick, concise reply to make us all a little more comfortable. Bryan Jones, Pearland, TX RV-8 80313, installing fuselage wiring and seats > Van's Bill Benedict posted a reply on this very topic about a year ago > after people started speculating about pouring lead into their > ailerons. > He advised to follow the plans. The ailerons are as balanced as the > designer designed them to be. > > Steve Soule > Huntington, Vermont ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)geon.com>
Subject: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Could you elaborate a little on the differences (other than the attachment to the fuselage). I am trying to visualize what could have lead to the RV-8 wing failure and what I and the other RV-8 builders might have coming as a fix. I'm not trying to get any speculation going on the loss of the RV-8 - just trying to understand the differences !! > The 6-A spars are > different than the 8's. > > Tommy > Closeing 6-A Wings > Ridgetop Tennessee> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Installation
<< I have installed a Harrison style Oil Cooler from my Old Cherokee on my new RV6a. I installed the Oil Cooler on my firewall. After running the engine for the first time, I removed the 3" air inlet hose which connects to top of right rear baffle and feeds air to the Oil Cooler, and found a fine mist of oil on the inside of the hose. Is this normal? >> Not really. You have a leak somewhere. If you need a different cooler (all hoses are tight?), many builders are opting for the Setrab brand cooler from TMR in Orange, CA. About $70 US. I have one of these on my bird (19 row/IO-540), and it works fine! Call Mike at: 714-771-1348. You will need a 9 or 13 row for the 320. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: caummisa(at)arn.net (Richard Caummisar, CSP)
Subject: Re: Matronics Back Online!
Lister donations (and Matt's) at work! .......Matt will accept donations to offset his expenses. Send your donation today. Here's the address.......... Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ========================================================== > >Listers, > >The Internet upgrade was a complete success! >Beta test input has been very positive, and I think everyone will be very >pleased with the new features and PERFORMANCE! >Best Regards, > >Matt Dralle >RV-List and Zenith-List Admin. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure
Now I wondering if I have my vacuum system >correctly installed? I have both a DG and Atitude Indicator. I have >the vacuum ports on both these gauges going to the Vacuum Regulator. I >have the two Air Inlets ports going to my Cockpit Air Filter. I have >the Gauge Ports connected to my Suction Gauge. I am curious about my >Suction Gauge Ports. One is marked with a "P" and the other with a >"V". I wasn't sure if it matter which of my two gyro guages these port >connect too. The "P" is for pressure and the "V" is for vacuum. Some equipment uses pressure to spin the gyros (most notably turbine based stuff) and almost every GA type uses vacuum. My instrument guy says you can tell the pressure driven gyros from the corrosion inside caused by the condensed moisture! >Ron Caldwell >rlcaldwell(at)uswest.net Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-6A kit for sale
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Fellow Listers, One of our MN Wing members has the following RV-6A kit components for sale: Empennage kit (partially complete) Wing kit Fuselage kit plus assorted tools. Prices of these items are very attractive. Contact Bob Sohlden, Hancock, MI, 906-482-0669 Thanks, Doug ******************************************* Doug Weiler, Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 email: dougweil(at)mail.pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
Denny and others, I dont think that there is a generic ratio of inlet to outlet that you can apply to all aircraft and that is why you find that one design may require a different ratio than another. As Bob Steward pointed out, the important factors are the ratio of inlet versus outlet pressure, clean, non turbulent airflow through the cooling system, and efficiency of the coolers used. This applies to radiators as well as cooling fins. So the best possible situation would be to install the inlets at the highest pressure point on the airframe and the outlet at the lowest pressure point. This is the reason that the P-51 cooling system works so well with the inlet under the wing and outlet on the aft fuse(at least in flight). I assume that the airframe that Bob was discussing didnt allow placement of inlets and outlets in such locations and that is why his particular application required the 3 to 1 ratio he described. Of course relocating your cooling system if you are using a Lycoming isnt really an option. So you have to optimize the inlets and outlets. The cowling/plenum you describe as used by Dave Anders, Tracy Saylor, Steve Bernard, etc.. allow the inlets and outlets to be reduced and still maintain adequate cooling because they more efficiently convert velocity to pressure on the inlet side and more efficiently convert the pressure back to velocity on the outlet side. Aerodynamic tweaks that work on the exterior of the airframe also work inside the cowling. Any turbulent flow in the cowling reduces cooling efficiency. Look at the pictures that appeared in the RVator of Dave Anders RV-4 and see how he attempted to optimize the exit so he could reduce its size. Talk to these guys and find out what they have done. Of course since you are building a -6 you could buy one of Steve's "Holy Cowls" and all the research is done for you; just install it. The augmenter that Mark Frederick talked about is also an interesting approach to reducing pressure on the outlet side. There is a description of this in one of Tony Bingelis' books as well as the Contact article Mark mentioned. The Powersport guys were experimenting with one on their Mazda powered -4 as well, before it was lost. Mike Wills RV-4 (fuse) willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > The reason I am going into this is I am preparing to install the >round hole inlets and a plentum on my RV-6, O-320. Trying to come up with a >starting point for the exit air is my concern. With expert help, that I >personally do not have contact with, the inlet holes are figured at roughly >35.5 sq.in. for the two. > Any other and/or better ideas out there? > > >Have a good one! >Denny - RV-6 finishing >harje(at)proaxis.com >Lebanon, OR > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: tire pressure
> At a Sun-N-Fun booth I found some very > >nice steel extensions for a buck which can be screwed on while adding air > >and then of course removed I must have missed the original question, but if you are looking for a way to get an airhose attachment through the little hole in the wheel pant and into the tire nozzle, there is a perfect answer. Big A Auto Parts (and I'm sure the others too) sell a straight chuck that's about 3/4" in diameter and 3 inches long (4" when you add a quick disconnect fitting). It cost about $6. It fits perfectly, and eliminates all the hassle of filling a tire. The store I went to didn't have it on the shelf, but I told them what I needed and they quickly found it in their catalog. I had it the next day. Andy Gold RV-ation Bookstore http://www.rvbookstore.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ingram <ingram(at)springfieldautomation.com>
Date: Jun 12, 1998
unsubscibe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Unistar Computers <unistar(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
>A>Did I mention that the cruise and top speed rose dramatically? Seems that >>all that extra inlet area was tripping the flow over a large setion of the >>fuselage and causing lots of drag. >> >>In the end the ratio was almost exactly 3-1, exhaust is 3 times intake. > >Bob, the article that I had mentioned was in the EAA Experimenter, Jan. '93. >It said in other words, "The exit air must handle the inlet air plus the >expanded volume caused by removed engine heat". > The interesting thing about this is that the RV-6 cowl, that I have >"uninstalled", measures "very roughly" at the inlets a total of 56 sq.in. >and 40.5 sq.in. for the outlet. This is in reverse of the article theory and >your findings by a long ways, giving only .73 X the inlet for the exit. (If >my figures are right, which I will not swear to.) Is the difference in what >you found due to liquid cooling in your case and pusher type in the other, >as apposed to air cooled tractor types? > The article stated that the air "comes out at a velocity that is >slightly greater ideally, but maybe less than, the free airstream." This >article deals with slower airplanes than the RV series and states "for a >high performance airplane much less exit area is require". > The reason I am going into this is I am preparing to install the >round hole inlets and a plentum on my RV-6, O-320. Trying to come up with a >starting point for the exit air is my concern. With expert help, that I >personally do not have contact with, the inlet holes are figured at roughly >35.5 sq.in. for the two. > Any other and/or better ideas out there? >Denny - RV-6 finishing What I didn't mention is that the air inlet on the water-cooled plane I was working with is now *18* sq. in.!!! Yes, that's correct. 18. It is split into 2 NACA inlets which feed an expansion plenum with walls tapering (out) in *3* dimensions as close to 7 degrees as AL Clad will permit. This feeds an aluminum cored radiator, which for space considerations must exhaust over the hot engine and then all flow is collected at the back of the engine and then run to the exit with as little flow disruption as possible. In other words, the airplane gets in the way of ideal airflow, but the compromises have been acceptable given the vast improvements in cooling. Now to the issue of "augmentor" exits... If you have room under the cowl to install an extractor type arrangement which will attempt to accelerate the exhaust flow back to near free stream speed, go for it. Most all GA stuff is too small (read too short) under the cowl to do a good job of slowing the air coming *IN* to maximize the pressure available to blow down trhough the engine, and don't have room (length again) to properly reverse this process to return the expanded heat laden air back to atmospheric. Dan Bond (of Nemesis fame) had a few comments in Sport Aviation some years back which detailed the methods for reducing cooling drag from approx 1/3 of the total airframe drag. Good food for thought. Look at the work LoPresti Speed Merchants is doing with Cowls for Pipers. They are gaining substantial speed from recowling 20-35 year old designs for better flow through the engine compartment. You may recall the work Roy Lopresti and Assoc. did for the Grumman Tiger and the Mooney 201 etal. which added speed to both of these popular planes at no cost in fuel. Both gained in excess of 20 mph through proper application of air flow theory *INSIDE* the cowl. Bob Steward, A&P IA AA-1B N8978L AA-5A N1976L ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRoss10612(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance
Bryan: << The control surfaces, in conjunction with the control linkages and the surrounding airflow act as a dynamic mechanical system - and they may or may not balance statically. >> Excellent post. However, we then rely on all linkages to have zero free play. Perhaps the 100% balance may not hurt, but help in the case of a linkage with some play in it. Yes, it is a dynamic system with the airflow and linkages considered, and this is the same reason that static testing is not often adequate to address strength issues as flight loads are dynamic. Perhaps this is the reason that there is dispute among designers regarding flutter protection, that is, it is a dynamic issue. I too, wonder what fix may be coming for us RV-8 builders. Best regards, Jon Ross RV-80094 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
<< The 6-A spars are different than the 8's. >> And for this we 6A owners are extremely and eternally grateful. -GV In my experience Van's wiring quality is pretty poor, or at least it was. I had to completely redo my Bendix/King radio wiring because of numerous broken wires and inadequate terminations. Many of these were badly crimped and then soldered. I would have preferred that they just send the parts and pieces so I could terminate, but Bendix/King supposedly requires their distributers to provide the harness. Too bad, as I am very picky about my wiring. IMO, do them yourself. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance, flutter
Date: Jun 12, 1998
While we are talking about control surface balance, and flutter, I have a question. If we have all these RV's going faster then Van's Vne, how did Van detrmine his Vne? Did he test it, or did he calculate it? Are you taking a big risk by exceeding Vne, or is it just a very conservative number? Has anyone ever experienced flutter in their RV, and if so, at what speed? Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
> *** big snip *** >Of course since you are building a -6 you could >buy one of Steve's "Holy Cowls" and all the research is done for you; just >install it. Guys, ... spoke to Theresa (sp?) Barnard last week, and they are moving out of the RV supply business. His "Holy Cowls" are no longer available. .... Gil (cowl-less in LA) Alexander PS does anyone know of (or have) an old "Fixed Pitch" cowl for sale for a RV-6A? Preferably in the CA-NV-UT area. RV6A, #20701 finishing kit .... but no cowl...:^( > *** more snip *** >Mike Wills >RV-4 (fuse) >willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil 6-A spars are >> different than the 8's. >> >> Tommy >> Closeing 6-A Wings >> Ridgetop Tennessee> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
<< i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing kit. also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built spars? and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8 thanks scott reviere >> Scott, The phlogiston spars are a beautifull piece of work. I had my spars done by phlogiston when I built my 4. With the spars predrilled now its not that big of a deal to build them yourself however. With the cost what it is now to have them prebuilt I would probably put them together myself if I were to do it again. The spar on the 8 is completely different from the RV4 or The RV6 series. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In
Listers, Since we are back up and running again I thought it might be a good time to let you all know that the Rocky Mountain Flyin is comming up. June 27th and 28th will be the dates this year. The Rocky Mountain RVators will be hosting an RV barbeque on the saturday of the flyin. We usually have a great turn out of RVs and builders. The BBQ will be at Hangar 34 at noon. All are welcome. ( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!) Ryan Bendure Co. RV4 131RB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Ivoprops
Date: Jun 12, 1998
This was posted on usenet today, and I thought it might be of interest to listers wondering about this prop. Rob (RV-6Q, Socal, cutting slider canopy, using Sensenich!) ********************************* Bruce A. Frank wrote: > > HornetBall wrote: > > > > You might also check with your insurance carrier about the Ivo. Avemco told me > > today that they would not insure a Velocity with an Ivo. > > Avemco sounds like they are trying to get out of the aircraft insurance > business. > -- > Bruce A. Frank, Editor "Ford 3.8L Engine and V-6 STOL Bruce, I expect Avemco are just being prudent about the risks they will under-write. When I had my NSI CAP prop failure last August, I reported it to Ben Owen at EAA. Ben sent me a report compiled from other written reports to EAA of prop failures. IVOs (all types, not just Magnums) comprised close to 70% of that list at that time. I suspect that Avemco have an equal or larger list of their own, based on their loss history that has led them to the decision to not insure aircraft equipped with IVOs. This is not meant to imply that IVOs don't work well in many applications, but a Lyc O-320/O-360 is pretty tough on props, even wood props were included in Ben Owen's list. Aside from fire, or structural failure, there aren't too many emergencies more frightening than a catastrophic prop failure (Been there, done that; hopefully never again!). I encourage the original poster to carefully research the use of the IVO on an O-320 before committing. Perhaps Avemco will share their loss experience with him? Regards........Gary, ex Lancair 235 pilot, current RV-6 pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Hi Scott, The RV8 spars and the RV6/6A spars are completely different. Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks CA > >Dear listers, >i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same >wing kit. >also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built >spars? >and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8 >thanks >scott reviere ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
<< The augmenter that Mark Frederick talked about is also an interesting approach to reducing pressure on the outlet side. There is a description of this in one of Tony Bingelis' books as well as the Contact article Mark mentioned. The Powersport guys were experimenting with one on their Mazda powered -4 as well, before it was lost. >> I found the article- the outlet was a pc of 5" galv ducting 20" long pulling thru a 9"x12" radiator (with the appropriate reducing funnel). The owner was able to get a 2.9" difference in water column height. Beech used the augmenters on the T-34, and I believe on some of their larger twins. Piper had it on the Apache. If any of you recall the Omega II, it also used an augmenter system. I don't have the 6-channel CHT system it would take to set such a system up, or I would do it. I'll bet the outlets would be unbelievably small. Of course, we are trying to dump air into a high pressure area- the bottom of the a/c! I would consider this a fundemental mistake, but there doesn't seem to be a way out of this dilemma, short of dumping the air out right in front of the windscreen (consider the errant oil leak when trying to design this setup). Maybe some sort of side outlet, re: T-18/Pitts/EAA bipe/many others? Maybe some side 'cowl flaps', and a very tiny bottom outlet combination. This would be easy on the -6 or the -8, but more difficult on the -4 due to its smaller flat side area (cowl cheeks, you know). An interesting discussion- we are discussing going faster (less drag) without using more power/fuel........... Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Terry Mortimore <terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-6A kit for sale
Doug Weiler wrote: > > Fellow Listers, > > One of our MN Wing members has the following RV-6A kit components for sale: > > Empennage kit (partially complete) > Wing kit > Fuselage kit > > plus assorted tools. > > Prices of these items are very attractive. Contact Bob Sohlden, Hancock, > MI, 906-482-0669 Hi Doug: I'm looking to buy a fuselage kit, I just spoke with Bob and he is not sure if he wants to sell the kits separately or not. If there is somebody out there who would like to purchase just the Empennage or Wing kits maybe we could swing a deal. I was going to order my fuselage kit in the middle of July, so if somebody is interested in the next month or so let me know. I'll be out of town till Monday, Terry Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A 38 Cartier St. Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca Ontario Canada P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: Aileron Balance, flutter
Date: Jun 12, 1998
>> Has anyone ever experienced flutter in their RV, and if so, at what >>speed? Flutter leads to structural disintegration. Most folks that experience it don't live to tell the tale. Every time I read about some aircraft just breaking up I think about flutter. When you think about all the ways it can happen ie. control linkages, rain/water loads, ice, dings, etc. you come to the conclusion... It's best just not to think about it. Gary Fesenbek RV6A, Roanoke, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In
<< ( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!) Ryan Bendure Co. RV4 131RB >> It's called a doghouse, you dummy! Any married man should know... I STILL owe you a ride. Get the truck reserved. Have your tools ready... Ol' Doug : Are you attending this one? Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: F-618 seat rib to F604(6A)
Date: Jun 12, 1998
1> My fwd flange (that needs 9-#3 rivets) almost lines up with the upper & lower AN-3 bolts through the spar stiffeners ONLY on the 2- F618's. If I try to go to the next spacing, thats too far. Can I just leave the top & bottom rivets out & use the 2 bolts as long as I can get the nuts on? Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rick_Smith(at)tivoli.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 empanage kit for sale
Comrades, I have a 6-month old RV-8 tail kit with the electric trim option that is for sale in Austin Texas. The rudder and vertical fin are 100% complete, with the tips attached and precisely matched fit to each other. No other components are started. The tail light is mounted in the rudder and is included. The workmanship is excellent and I guarantee your satisfaction with all work. If interested I have local references who are on this list. I have a flying RV-6 and thought I wanted to build another RV but would rather build a lake house and fly the -6 more. For $1000.00 I will crate it up and ship freight collect . The total cost for this kit was approximately $1,500 not counting the alodine, acid etch, tail light assembly, variprime, Band-Aids, etc. Contact me at: rick.smith(at)tivoli.com or call (512) 249-7063 in the evenings. Check six...you interested yet? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: $$$ for the NEW LIST???
>-------------- >--> Message posted by: Louis Willig > >>Listers, >> >>The Internet upgrade was a complete success! The connection wasn't up in >>time for a DNS update on Wednesday, and so DNS was updated early this morning >>(Thursday) and it appears that most servers around the Internet have been >>successfully updated. > >Hey gang, > >The Cyberspace merchants are in love with Matt Dralle and RV's and gave Matt a >whole new 1.1 Mb dedicated connection for free. His new server doesn't cost a >penny. And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit >purchasers. Ok, is the message coming through? Let's send some money. > >With 800 to 1000 people on the list, it shouldn't burden any one individual. >Those of us who can't wait to see what's on the RV list each day should do our >part now. The other RV listers who are just lurking or have recently joined... >your time will come and you, too, will see the value of the list and >understand >the time, energy and money Matt puts into the list. He has >never asked to be repaid (which is an endearing trait or a character >flaw... I can't figure out which). So it is our responsibility to keep >Matt's tanks full. > > >Matt's address is: > > Matt G. Dralle > PO Box 347 > Livermore, California 94551 > >Louis I. Willig >larywil(at)home.com >(610) 668-4964 >Philadelphia, PA >-------------- Louis and Listers, Thank you for your support! I have set up a Secure Transaction web page on the my server that will allow those who wish to make a contribution using a Credit Card a simple and easy way to do so. Once on the Contribution page, all data sent across the Internet (i.e. the credit card number) is encrypted for maximum card security. The URL for the RV-List Contribution Page is: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/contribution.html and the URL for the Zenith-List Contribution Page is: http://www.matronics.com/zenith-list/contribution.html Your contributions will go directly to support the continued operation and upgrade the Lists and systems that support it. Again, I want to thank everyone for their support. Your generosity and moral support is greatly appreciated! Enjoy! Matt Dralle RV and Zenith List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: RV-8 and RV-6 spars
Date: Jun 12, 1998
The differences in the spars were covered in detail in a RVAtor about two years ago. It was the issue that introduced the RV-8 if I am not mistaken. While different from the RV-6 and RV-4 spars, the RV-8 spars were thoroughly in the mainstream of aircraft engineering. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont -----Original Message----- The RV8 spars and the RV6/6A spars are completely different. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Eric Barnes <erbarnes(at)cisco.com>
Subject: PDX Area 172 Prepurchase Inspection - Recommendation?
If anyone in the Portland area has a recommendation (or warning) for someone to do a pre-purchase inspection/annual on a C-172, I'd appreciate it. PLEASE CONTACT ME DIRECTLY at: erbarnes(at)cisco.com TIA, EB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In
What airport and how many RV's do you expect? Thanks.. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB)Arizona Mounting Empennage > >Listers, > Since we are back up and running again I thought it might be a >good time to let you all know that the Rocky Mountain Flyin is comming up. >June 27th and 28th will be the dates this year. The Rocky Mountain RVators >will be hosting an RV barbeque on the saturday of the flyin. We usually have a >great turn out of RVs and builders. The BBQ will be at Hangar 34 at noon. All >are welcome. >( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!) > Ryan Bendure Co. RV4 131RB > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6A kit for sale
correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the wing kit had to match the fuse kit scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PILOT8127(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: RE: INDY-RV'S
There is a gathering of RV's scheduled for Saturday. BMG Bloomington Airport, Bloomington, In. Breakfast at 8:00am. Airshow at 10:30am. Lunch at noon or so. Airshow at 3:30pm. The airport will be CLOSED during the airshows. All are welcome. Many planes will be displayed. BMG is 50 mi. SW of Indy. TWR. controlled. See Ya there?? Gary and N5AJ (RV-3, 160hp.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Dahl" <dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net>
Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In
Date: Jun 12, 1998
...and at what airport will the Rocky Mountain Flyin be held at? Christopher Dahl RV4 N426RC ---------- > From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In > Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 9:26 AM > > > Listers, > Since we are back up and running again I thought it might be a > good time to let you all know that the Rocky Mountain Flyin is comming up. > June 27th and 28th will be the dates this year. The Rocky Mountain RVators > will be hosting an RV barbeque on the saturday of the flyin. We usually have a > great turn out of RVs and builders. The BBQ will be at Hangar 34 at noon. All > are welcome. > ( Mark get out of the closet and come on up!) > Ryan Bendure Co. RV4 131RB > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Re: Warnke prop
> > > > > Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A? > > > Using a Warnke 70 x 72 on my RV-6A w/Lycoming 160HP, results: Excellent. Fast > lift off, max TAS 202MPH, no problems whatever. (I'm operating off an airport at > 7,500ft) > > Jim > RV6a-finishing kit. Fitting canopy > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Bill Thomas <wd_thomas(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Alternative engines/props
Has anyone had actual experience with Belted Air Power's Chevy V6 installation for the RV6A? I have talked to them at length, and they sound pretty good at face value. I know Van's attitude about non-Lycoming engines, but at those prices.............!! The Chevy V6 puts out about 180-200 HP in the range of 4400 rpm, which is about the right speed for the PSRU that BAP sells. One issue with the Chev is weight: but that could be offset with aftermarket aluminum heads (Brodix makes heads that fit this rpm range). BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on the Chevy or a standard Lycoming? Bill - finishing fuselage, RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
Sam James called this morning. I asked him if he knew anything about the ratio. He said they had made Dave Anders plenum and that Dave's -4 has considerable less that 1:1 ratio. My intake will have about 35 sq.in. of intake total. Sam told me that about a 30 sq.in exit should do it fine, about 86% of the intake. This goes against the Experimenter theory. A good friend of mine purchased a Bernard cowl. However he has the extended C/S on his engine. I inqured about the Holey cowl but was told they did not make one for the standard cowl, as it would not do much good. The thought behind that is as mention in one of the posts, distance to get the flow smoothed out is a major factor. But Tracy S. fast -6 did not have an extended C/S and his did him some good, obviously. From his advise I am going to get the intake as far forward as possible. On the first run after the mod Tracy S. mention the prop ticked the intakes. He shaved them a little and now the clearance is about 1/16" he says now. An article I read a long time ago before I was very interested in this mentioned that the need for about 12" of tube leading into the plenum was needed to get the flow stablized, was found in their experiments. It appears in the pictures of Dave Anders -4 cowl that it appears simular to an augmentor on the exit air side. More speed with less power interests me because I can pull it back and make fuel. That is the theroy anyway. We will see. Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A kit for sale
Date: Jun 12, 1998
The wing kit comes with the appropriate fuselage bulkheads which are matched to the wings. Doug Weiler > >correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the wing kit had to match the fuse kit >scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "MikeH" <MikeH(at)ghpd.com>
Subject: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Does the 6/6A spar differ from the 3 spar ? Mike Henney RV-6A empenage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
Date: Jun 12, 1998
> From: Bill Thomas <wd_thomas(at)earthlink.net> > > Has anyone had actual experience with Belted Air Power's Chevy V6 > installation for the RV6A? Bill, There's quite a bit about this conversion in the archives, and at www.dejanews.com. I've flown it, and was quite impressed by the engineering. With my limited RV flight time as a baseline, I equate its performance about equal to a heavy O-320 powered bird. A fresh overhaul O-320 with all accessories costs $12K, so there's a minimal initial cost advantage. I choose the Lycosaur for better airframe performance (lighter aircraft), and proven reliability. If you use aluminum heads it would equalize the cost and performance differences. I spoke to a test pilot involved with the project this past weekend, he informed me the PSRU belt has shredded a couple of times in flight, one occurence resulting in an off-field landing. If this is true, it makes me feel better about my engine decision. Rob (RV-6Q, Socal, cutting slider canopy). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: KAMKZ <marr(at)shianet.org>
Subject: New R410PP (Rudder Brace)
For those who have purchased the *new* R410PP (rudder brace) from Van's: What, specifically, is different about this part? I assume the bend radius has changed to fit snugly in between the rib flanges without shimming. Also, the "PP" suffix makes me assume that *something* is prepunched. What might that be -- the holes to attach it to the rib flange? Is the 2.125" lightening hole pre-cut now? Thanks in advance! Bill Marr RV-8 (#80439) empennage Byron, MI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DenClay(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
<< And for this we 6A owners are extremely and eternally grateful. -GV >> GV Your information seems generally to be based on fact, and your advice sound. Have you given over to emotionalism today(temporarily I am sure), or do you have some factual information the rest of us are not privy to? If so, please share. Respectfully, Dennis Clay #80473 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Warnke prop
>Does anyone have any information about using a Warnke prop on an RV6A? >I haven't had any experience with one before but I can get one pretty cheap. >Is it worth taking a chance on? Or should I stick with the PaceSetter that >has always worked good for me? >Jim >RV6a-finishing kit. Fitting canopy Jim, Warnke made a nice prop. What is the pitch & diameter? Was it pitched for a RV? If it was pitched for another aircraft, it could be far from what you need. What's the cost? If it's really cheap and the pitch & diameter are close to what you think you need, I'd buy it just for a spare. As has been discussed on the list in the past, it's very difficult to compare pitches between different prop makers. And, even the same prop maker makes 2 or 3 "identical" props they can all have very different performances. Some prop makers are better at getting it right the first time than others. Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 12, 1998
The -4 & -6 spars are made up up of a center web piece and multiple, varying length aluminum bars which are riveted together to form very strong, laminated spar caps. The -8 uses a single aluminum bar beautifully machined to varying degrees of thickness. It looks great. But my experience has always been that laminated components are generally stronger (or at least less subject to a single point of failure in the event of a flaw) than a single component. I have no idea whether this experience applies to RV wing spars. But a NTSB inspector who spoke at the MN RV Forum made the comment that in the RV crashes he's investigated he has been impressed with the strength of the -4/-6 spars. I think he said he had not seen one fail, even in some very serious crashes. Hopefully, the -8 will prove just as strong. Loren Jones Prior Lake, MN - Emp going into jig....shop almost complete! -----Original Message----- From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 12:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: SPAR HELP > >I would also like to hear the differences between the 8 and 6/4 spars, and >any reasons Van may have had for changing the design. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance, flutter
<< If we have all these RV's going faster then Van's Vne, how did Van detrmine his Vne? Did he test it, or did he calculate it? Are you taking a big risk by exceeding Vne, or is it just a very conservative number? >> You'd have to ask Van if this was a calculation, but I do not believe so. It is "suppose" to represent the speed to which the aircraft has successfully been tested. It is, however, possible that this number is actually a number that Van felt was realistic(conservative) and that the plane had been tested for a higher speed. I mean, look at the VNE numbers for the RV-4. Now, I ask you, "How fast has Dave Ander's had his RV-4, and has he had any difficulties with flutter?" Just a thought. Jim Nice RV6A WA State ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
<< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on the Chevy or a standard Lycoming? >> Folks, I "might" be wrong, but I would think that "even with an IVO prop", a failure would be less likely on a Chevy V-6 installation than it might on a LYC. I am planning on a LYC, but believe the Chevy is easier on the prop. Just an opinion. It would be interesting to look at the EAA list of prop failures to proof out this theory. Jim Nice RV6A WA State ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP & RV Chat
Cool it guys, this will get outa hand quick. On another note, if any lister is interested in a simple, easy to use chat program that sets itself up and doesn't use any complicated chat addresses, please email me PERSONALLY. It is called ICQ, and it is an internet pager that lets you know when your buddies are online, and allows you to send them realtime messages and open a chat session with as many as you like. There is noo need to wait in an empty chat room, just look at your buddy list to see who is online at that time. It is so simple, even Doug Rozendaal got it set up and running. If you send me an email personally, I will send you a link to the website you download it from. It will set itself up quickly and hassle free, and it runs automatically. We chat almost nightly, and we can speculate all we want about Lesbian UFO's shooting down N58RV without fear of being called troublemakers. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe DenClay(at)aol.com wrote: > > << And for this we 6A owners are extremely and eternally grateful. > > -GV > >> > GV > > Your information seems generally to be based on fact, and your advice sound. > Have you given over to emotionalism today(temporarily I am sure), or do you > have some factual information the rest of us are not privy to? If so, please > share. > > Respectfully, > Dennis Clay #80473 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: I am famous!!!
That guy said everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame, and I just wanted to let everyone know that mine are on page 13 of the latest RVator. In other words, Ken published the little article I wrote about instaling the IO320-B1A in my RV-6. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: bcon(at)ix.netcom.com (Robert M. Cornacchia )
Subject: Re: Moving to Chicago
You wrote: > > >Hi. Just wanted to follow up to the 'list and let everyone know that >the move to Chicago is in full swing. Judi has her still-wet diploma >and we have just taken our apartment in Palos Hills, a suburb on the >Southwest side of Chicago. My thanks to all the area 'listers who >submitted advice and help; I got everything I wanted in an apartment >except a place to build. I'll be looking for a garage or shop in the >Palos Hills area if anyone can help. > >The project is still in the apartment in Ann Arbor until I can close the >wing. That should be done in a couple of weeks and I will then move it >all to Palos Hills. Once in Chicagoland, I will take a break in >building while I seek new employment, get settled, and try to change my >website. I'll be adding new pictures (at long last!), including ones >from the move. Once established, I hope to continue with the fuselage. > >As you can see, my email has changed. The web site remains the same >until I get arrangements settled here; I'm trying to get a personal >domain registered. Once the website is moved and updated, I will post >an announcement on the 'list. Thanks to the readers who have asked >about updates and shown great patience - I hope to give you something >new soon. For any newcomers, the current RV project pages are at >http://ic.net/~patk/rv6a.htm and you will probably do best to try the >book-styled presentation (I think I will retire the other pages in the >update). > >If one of the Chicagoland RVer's would tell me where on Clow airport you >guys meet, I will try to make it out there soon. I look forward to >meeting you all and getting back into the project in the near future. >Thanks a bunch to everyone again for making this move so easy and >exciting. > >PatK - RV-6A - On the move! > > > > Hi Pat, The Clow RV group meets in the restaurant on the field. The group meets at about 10:30 till 12 noon every Friday. They have an adverage of 12 to 20 great fellas there. If I can be of any assistance feel free to contact me. I live about 5 miles from Palos and hang at Lansing Airport with a great bunch of guys. Later, Bob Cornacchia 3626 RoseManor Markham,IL 708-339-3131 Bcon(at)ix.netcom.com PS I am building a 6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)iols.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6A kit for sale
Just to expound on the other reply I saw, the spar is match drilled with the bulkhead that it attaches to. In the case of the regular kits, the bulkhead is drilled by phlogiston and sent with the wing kit, so any fuselage kit will work. However, for the quick-build, the bulkhead is built into the fuselage, so the wing and fuselage have to be ordered as a unit and are not interchangable with other wings or fuselages. PatK - RV-6A ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote: > > > correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the wing kit had to match the fuse kit > scott > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Inlet vs outlet air
<< spoke to Theresa (sp?) Barnard last week, and they are moving out of the RV supply business. His "Holy Cowls" are no longer available. >> Are the molds for sale? -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
<< Does the 6/6A spar differ from the 3 spar ? >> Yes, considerably so. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GROBDRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: HS Forward Spar Bend Problem
Gentlemen, a problem. Was attching the ribs to the rear HS spar (HS-606, 405 and 608) getting them drilled into place, etc. Did a dry fit (cabinetmaker lingo) of the forward HS spar on top of everything and was dismayed to see the 6 degree bend is not quite enough! When the forward spar is resting on HS 405 and 608, with them clamped in the correct positions, the tips are higher than the 7 5/8 inches specified on the HS606 tip rib. I have to press the tip of the forward spar down on each side about an inch to meet the 606. Now, George O. taught us that we should not use a rivet to hold parts together in this way - that the strength is in shear (that right George?) so I would expect the spar to set right down and touch all ribs, given the 6 degree bend was done accurately - and I spent enough time setting _that_ up that I think is was. I'll keep reading my material and checking the web sites, but <*gulp*> this doesn't look good. What say ye? - Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GROBDRIVER(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: HS Forward Spar Bend Followup
A correction - went back out to the shop to look the situation over again and I misspoke in my previous note. The forward spar rests on the HS405s and is about 1/2 inch off the top of the HS608s. The error extends out to the 606s where it's about the same distance high - maybe a little more. Anyway, that distance off of the 608s is what makes me think my bends are less than 6 degrees. With much hand wringing, - Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Seeping tank rivet
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Greeting folks, As a final check for seal integrity of my -8 tanks, I put about 5 gallons of gas in the tanks, and sat them in various attitudes on the work table. All was fine except for one rivet...on a stiffener of all places. It seeps fuel slightly....although a "slight" seep is like being "slightly" pregnant. :) So, what's the best way to fix it? I'm planning on drilling it out, and replacing it with a sealed end pop rivet as used to attach the Z-brackets to the baffle, along with a dab of sealant. Is this the best way to go about it? Meanwhile, the wings are done...finally! Now, to sit and wait for the word from Van; spar modification on the way? Aileron static balance need a fix as well? Oh well, the Wright's weren't easily daunted...nor will I be. Thanks for any input.. Brian Denk -8 #379 fuselage on the way. http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Re: I am famous!!!
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Thought I would add a moment to your 15 minutes of fame. I'm sure most RVers have heard of Dave Barnhart and his amazingly quick RV-4, but I had the pleasure of him visiting our EAA chapter this week and it was great. He gave a video presentation developed to show a ladies group what experimental aviation is all about which was amazing. Beautiful shots of areas from Alaska to the Bahamas with many RVs in formation having more fun than anyone should be alowed. We all appreciated your time and good luck on your next project. Marcus Cooper Skybolt flying RV-6 almost there ---------- > From: David A. Barnhart <barnhart(at)a.crl.com> > > That guy said everyone gets their 15 minutes of fame, and I just wanted to > let everyone know that mine are on page 13 of the latest RVator. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance, flutter
Date: Jun 13, 1998
> << If we have all these RV's going faster then Van's Vne, how did Van > detrmine his Vne? Did he test it, or did he calculate it? Are you taking a > big risk by exceeding Vne, or is it just a very conservative number? >> > > You'd have to ask Van if this was a calculation, but I do not believe so. It > is "suppose" to represent the speed to which the aircraft has successfully > been tested. It is, however, possible that this number is actually a number > that Van felt was realistic(conservative) and that the plane had been tested > for a higher speed. I mean, look at the VNE numbers for the RV-4. Now, I ask > you, > "How fast has Dave Ander's had his RV-4, and has he had any difficulties with > flutter?" Just a thought. I hope no one will think that just because Dave has flown "his" Airplane ( which started out as an RV4 but is now much changed ) at well in excess of the Rv4's Vne that that means it is perfectly safe for them to exceed it too. Fours are different to 6's are different to 8's and mine will be different to yours. Flutter can and has occured to the best designed airplanes. Van has no control over your workmanship and therefore all Rv's are likely to have a different speed at which problems may occur. This can be no reflection on the design. With all the Rv's flying, what can be said is if you stay within the design limits you are unlikely to have a problem, but once you exceed them you are on your own. Hopefully you will also be flying on you own too. Brian.H. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Ivoprops
Without incurring the wrath of the powers that be, again, it is my opinion based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have researched that these props are dangerous and it does not suprise me that Avemco will not insure them--I would not either. Further, I am glad they have chosen to eliminate this risk from their portfolio because I do not want to pay the higher premiums that would be needed to include policies for IVO props. I do not mean to anger IVO fans--I understand that some folks really like them and enjoy experimenting with them. Safe flights to all--JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "m.hanson" <paintbox(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Electric vs manual trim
Date: Jun 12, 1998
This is a message that I posted 6-9-98, but I was somehow knocked off the list shortly after that and I don't know if there were any responses. My question was concerning the pros and cons of 'electric' elevator & aileron trim,and electric flaps. I'm especially interested in your experience with the reliability of the systems. If anybody has already sent a response,I apologize for asking again.Thanks! Marc Hanson RV-6A HS skins about to be riveted! paintbox(at)rconnect.com ________________________________________________________________________________ Delivered-To: fixup-rv-list(at)matronics.com@fixme
Subject: Re: $$$ for the NEW LIST???
Date: Jun 12, 1998
From: rv6a <rv6a(at)uswest.net>
Hey Matt, Did you ever think this thing would get so big? When you and I combined our lists many years ago when I was still at Ohio State and you started the official RVlist, we had maybe 25(?) people If I recall properly. Sure has come a long way. Thanks for keeping it up. Chris Krieg **Yes, I'm still slowly working on my RV-6A (plans # 20551). Just ordered the fuselage kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: Seeping tank rivet
>As a final check for seal integrity of my -8 tanks, I put about 5 >gallons of gas in the tanks, and sat them in various attitudes on the >work table. All was fine except for one rivet...on a stiffener of all >places. It seeps fuel slightly....although a "slight" seep is like being >"slightly" pregnant. :) > >So, what's the best way to fix it? I'm planning on drilling it out, and >replacing it with a sealed end pop rivet as used to attach the >Z-brackets to the baffle, along with a dab of sealant. Is this the best >way to go about it? > Fix it correctly, and be glad that you found this problem prior to paint. If this was my airplane, I'd go about fixing it as follows: If the leak is in a bay that you can reach through the inspection plate or fuel filler, just dab more pro-seal on the rivet. Assuming the above isn't true: a) Create a fixture to hold the tank in your drill press, then use a fly cutter to cut a rather large hole in the rear baffle in the bay that is leaking. You must be able to get your hand in this hole. b) Replace the rivet that is leaking (install with pro-seal), check all other rivets in this bay (pro-seal anything that looks like it might leak in the future). c) Clean out all aluminum shavings. d) Cover the hole created in step (a) with an aluminum plate (.063), pro-sealed in place and riveted with self-sealing blind rivets. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV-Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: HS Forward Spar Bend Problem
My tips were off by a whole 1/4", and I had already made a practice spar so I know I did it right! Always fit things to the skin first, do not trust the measurements on the plans. I say bend it a little further, but make sure that you can still make edge dist on all the rivets along the front spar. Fit the skin on, and play with it until everything matches up. Then decide what you have to bend or shim to get it right. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe GROBDRIVER(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Gentlemen, a problem. > Was attching the ribs to the rear HS spar (HS-606, 405 and 608) getting them > drilled into place, etc. Did a dry fit (cabinetmaker lingo) of the forward HS > spar on top of everything and was dismayed to see the 6 degree bend is not > quite enough! When the forward spar is resting on HS 405 and 608, with them > clamped in the correct positions, the tips are higher than the 7 5/8 inches > specified on the HS606 tip rib. I have to press the tip of the forward spar > down on each side about an inch to meet the 606. > > Now, George O. taught us that we should not use a rivet to hold parts together > in this way - that the strength is in shear (that right George?) so I would > expect the spar to set right down and touch all ribs, given the 6 degree bend > was done accurately - and I spent enough time setting _that_ up that I think > is was. > > I'll keep reading my material and checking the web sites, but <*gulp*> this > doesn't look good. > > What say ye? > > - Mike Thompson > Austin, TX > -6 Emp > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: New item in our catalog . . .
AC mains ground power supplies just arrived. See at <http://www.aeroelectric.com/gpu.html> Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance
> >Regarding RV ailerons, I am curious about any builders that may have balanced >their ailerons to 100%. What was the amount of weight added to achieve this >balance, and if so, what method was used to add weight? > >RV-8 ailerons are of particular interest to me, as my ailerons seem to be >trailing edge heavy. > >All comments welcome. > >Jon Ross RV-80094 Skinning Jon, Remember that there is an identical aileron on the other wing that is also "trailing edge heavy" that is working in opposition. When mechanically connected via control rods, if one goes down the other must go down, thus balancing them. I would worry more about making them identical to each other than perfectly balanced..... IMHO Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Banks, OR Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: SPAR HELP
> >Dear listers, >i've got my 6a wings on order, and wondered if the rv 8 has the same wing kit. >also, does anyone have anything bad to say about phlogiston pre built spars? >and did they build the spar on the factory rv 8 >thanks >scott reviere Scott, The RV6 wing spar is totally different than the RV8 spar. There are a lot more pieces to a -6 spar and wing. The -6 spar uses 10 individual stiffening strips on the spar channel, 5 on top and 5 on bottom, creating a "lamination" of all the strips to carry the load. There are 2 on the forward and 3 on the aft side of the spar. Look at your pre-view plans and you'll know what I mean. The -8 spar uses 2 individual "step bars", one on the top and one on the bottom, that start out at the root at full thickness and incrementally get machined to a smaller thickness as they progress toward the tip. These "step bars" end about where the fuel tank ends as you progress toward the tip. They are on the front side of the spar. The -8 spar also features what is called a "waffle plate" on the aft side of the spar in lieu of the stiffeners on the aft side of a -6 spar. This is CNC machined out of 1/8" aluminum sheet. The Phlogiston spars are very nice and are quite pretty with their gold anodizing. They are also nearly $900. The spars are not at all hard to build as they are all pre-drilled. All that is necesary is to finish all the pieces, prime and rivet. If you've got the cash, go with Phlogiston. If not, build your own like I did and use the money for a Navaid or something. Yes, all -8 spars are built by Phlogiston. Personally, I would look elsewhere for the cause of the -8 crash. I would also, again personally, not suspect the design of the spar either. Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Banks, OR Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Warnke prop
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Is it Mrs or Miss? I was told it is Bernie's daughter. Any one no for sure, and what are her props like? Brian > Jim, I don't have personal experience with them. All the local users I have > asked were more than happy with Warnke. The Cafe numbers sure seem good. It > was the one I was going to get if I hadn't stumbled into a C/S buy. > BTW, I see Mrs. Warnke is continueing the business. > Have a good one! > Denny - RV-6 finishing > harje(at)proaxis.com > Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: Warnke prop
Date: Jun 13, 1998
> Is it Mrs or Miss? I was told it is Bernie's daughter. Any one no for sure, > and what are her props like? Brian I called out there right before Bernie died. His daughter answered the phone. Apparently his daughter has a big hand in the business. Years ago Bernie told me ( if I remember correctly ) that he taught his son-in-law how he made props, then his son-in-law went elsewhere to work. I don't know for sure but it sounds like his son-in-law is back now. Also she said they would resume making three blade props. ( Bernie had quit making three blade props ). I wish them success in the future. I thought Bernie's prices were high but I got exactly what I wanted without sending it back to get repitched. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: photoman <innovate(at)dallas.net>
Subject: Re: Seeping tank rivet
Be sure to clean that tank out goooood before any repair work is done! David >Fix it correctly, and be glad that you found this problem prior to paint. >If this was my airplane, I'd go about fixing it as follows: > >If the leak is in a bay that you can reach through the inspection plate or >fuel filler, just dab more pro-seal on the rivet. > >Assuming the above isn't true: > >a) Create a fixture to hold the tank in your drill press, then use a fly >cutter to cut a rather large hole in the rear baffle in the bay that is >leaking. You must be able to get your hand in this hole. >b) Replace the rivet that is leaking (install with pro-seal), check all >other rivets in this bay (pro-seal anything that looks like it might leak in >the future). >c) Clean out all aluminum shavings. >d) Cover the hole created in step (a) with an aluminum plate (.063), >pro-sealed in place and riveted with self-sealing blind rivets. > >Hope this helps. > >Scott Gesele N506RV-Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Electric vs manual trim
From: wstucklen1(at)Juno.com (Frederic w Stucklen)
Marc, I have electric elevator trim, mechanical aileron trip, and (now) electric flaps on my RV-6A (1095+ Hrs). This combination has worked out OK for me. I changed from manual flaps to electric a couple of years ago because I was tired of having to ask my passengers to lift their left arm so I could pull the flap handle. The electric flaps are considerably easier for me to operate. I have yet to have any trim or flap actuation failures, but am confident that I could get the plane to the ground safely if any or all these functions failed. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N925RV wstucklen1(at)juno.com E. Windsor, Ct. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: hello
From: lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Jun 13, 1998
David, I'm averaging about 40 per day, or more accuratly from 37 to 60. Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com >Hello everyone, >I'm new to the list and not getting very many >letters. How many a day on average? Thanks. >David ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRoss10612(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance
<< Remember that there is an identical aileron on the other wing that is also "trailing edge heavy" that is working in opposition. When mechanically connected via control rods, if one goes down the other must go down, thus balancing them. I would worry more about making them identical to each other than perfectly balanced..... IMHO Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Banks, OR >> Jon: Yes, I agree. However, now we must depaend on a control & linkage system with zero free play. When some sort of linkage play develops, for whatever reason, then the static balance is there to minimize the chances of the onset of flutter. Jon Ross RV-80094 fuselage flip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: HS Forward Spar Bend Problem
Hi Mike: One other thing about that front HS spar. Be sure that you are trial fitting it in your fixture. The plans do not state this, and I trial fitted mine while on the work bench at first. Went to all the trouble of making a shim to close a slight gap I had at the tips of the spar, only to realize when I *did* set the works in the jig that I did not need the shim. Just a thought. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 Wait'n on the Wing kit Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: SPAR HELP
Hi guys: Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you use to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets. Does a 4X gun work well? The pneumatic squeezer that Avery's sells is rated for only up to 1/8th inch rivets. Is there a larger (read that more expensive :( ) pneumatic unit out there? The riveting of the spars is the only thing that I am a bit concerned with, and I need the wisdom of the group to decide the best way to smash those rivets. Thanks for the input group. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 wait'n on the wings Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: "David A. Barnhart" <barnhart(at)a.crl.com>
Subject: Re: I am famous!!!
All: "Marcus Cooper" wrote: >Thought I would add a moment to your 15 minutes of fame. I'm sure most >RVers have heard of Dave Barnhart and his amazingly quick RV-4, but I had >the pleasure of him visiting our EAA chapter this week... The guy with the fast RV-4 is the other Dave, Dave *Anders*. Best Regards, Dave Barnhart rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
jorear(at)mari.net wrote: > Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. > What did you use to rivet the spars? A five pound mini-sledge hammer, and an Avery-style "C" tool. Two whacks from the hammer on each rivet worked just fine. -- -------- Rob Rimbold rimbold(at)ntr.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Trying to fit the seat ribs on 6A
Date: Jun 13, 1998
My fwd flange (that needs 9-#3 rivets) of the F618 seat ribs almost lines up with the upper & lower AN-3 bolts through the spar stiffeners ONLY on the 2- F618's. If I try to go to the next spacing, thats too far. Can I just leave the top & bottom rivets out & use the 2 bolts as long as I can get the nuts on? Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Toad <toad(at)favorites.com>
Subject: US Tools Comment
A while back, I posted a response here about my disatifacation with the quality of some of the tools I bought from US-tools. After I posted that message here on the list, someone forwarded it to US Tools or they simply monitor this list. Well, US Tools emailed me, they were quite concerned about what I had said. I realized That I was not objective in my oppinion on a few of thier tools they sell because my oppinion is biased because I am a Machinist by trade, have been for 24 yrs now, and nothing pisses me off more than a lower quality drill chuck! But hey, their drill chuck on their 3/8"ths Drill motor will do the Job and there is no need for a professional grade chuck for an rv project and they do sell other higher grade tools outside of their rv-tool kits. I had complaints of simaliar nature on some of the other tools in the Kit, but my main concern was with thier clecoes they included. I must admit this is why I bought their kit in the first place as they include 500 of them. The problem is they had a bad batch of 3/32 clecoes, the clamping wires spread apart when you compressed the clecoe to install it, made it near impossible to use. Well, they sent me a whole new set of Clecoes! much better ones! at no charge! I now must say I am pleased with their services as they do really want to get you good tools for the price, and if you want a proffesional grade tool instead, they sell those also. I am very impressed that they even cared to email me, as I was quite upset with the clecoes I was not going to bother with them and was going to replace them from another vendor, I am very glad they have folk watching. My hat is off to them for the way they handled my situation as I know that old machinists are a hard lot to please. Mel Rogers toad(at)favorites.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance
<< When some sort of linkage play develops, for whatever reason, then the static balance is there to minimize the chances of the onset of flutter. >> EXCELLENT POINT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: gw <gwhite(at)vaxxine.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A kit for sale
Terry Mortimore wrote: > Hi Terry: What is the price of the empennage and wing kit? Gary White Niagara Falls, Ontario > Hi Doug: > > I'm looking to buy a fuselage kit, I just spoke with Bob and he is not > sure if he wants to sell the kits separately or not. > > If there is somebody out there who would like to purchase just the > Empennage or Wing kits maybe we could swing a deal. I was going to order > my fuselage kit in the middle of July, so if somebody is interested in > the next month or so let me know. > > I'll be out of town till Monday, Terry > > Terry Mortimore 2.7L Subaru RV-6A > 38 Cartier St. > Sault Ste Marie terry.mortimore(at)sympatico.ca > Ontario Canada > P6B-3K2 RAA #4061 EAA #229708 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: RV6 FP cowl wanted
RV-listers, ... it seems like my slow building has backed me into a corner...:^( I started off with another builder who had an extra FP (the longer one) cowl. I didn't buy a cowl with my finish kit, and was going to use his. He ended up moving out of town, and then threw his extra cowl in the trash! Plan #2, Steve Barnard came out with his new "Holey Cowl", so I was going to use this with my O-320, but this needs the prop with the 4 inch extension, since his cowl was designed for the IO-360. So I bought my Sensenich prop with the 4 inch extension. Oops... Steve has stopped producing his cowls, and now I am "Cowl-less in LA" and have a metal prop with expe$ive hardware for a 4 inch prop extension (have you checked outthe price os Sensenich prop bolts?). So, does anyone have an older RV6 FP cowl available in the SW USA? A used one is fine, unlike some RV builders, I have no objection to glass work...:^) Any leads would be appreciated. Gil (I know I should build faster) Alexander RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd. ... going to experiment with Sterling paint and my HVLP gun on the the neighbors glass Sabot sailboat this weekend...:^) PS worst case fix, Van can special order FP cowls. I don't know if Sensenich will exchange the spacer hardware to let me fit the new, shorter cowls. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Kevin & Theresa Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance
> ><< Remember that there is an identical aileron on the other wing that is also > "trailing edge heavy" that is working in opposition. When mechanically > connected via control rods, if one goes down the other must go down, thus > balancing them. I would worry more about making them identical to each > other than perfectly balanced..... IMHO > Jon Elford > RV6 #25201 > Banks, OR >> > This does not work if the aircraft has an anti-symmetrical wing torsion flutter mode. This is a flutter mode where when one wing is twisting leading edge up, the other wing is twisting leading edge down. In this case the two ailerons would be going in opposite directions, just as the linkage between them would allow. It is pretty hard to predict the speed that a given design will flutter. Even the big companies screw it up once in a while. Boeing lost half the vertical tail on a modified 707 a few years ago. They then (presumably) did a whole bunch of additional flutter analysis, and then lost half of the vertical tail again when they redid the flutter tests. The bottom line is that we as builders do not have the capability to do a flutter analysis. We are depending on a good designer to do the analysis and flight testing, and to publish a valid VNE. Any questions on flutter should really go to Van. I trust his engineering and integrity. I also hope to do an instrumented flutter flight test eventually to verify the flutter damping. My biggest flutter concern relates to the elevator (and aileron) trim tab. If the linkage to an unbalanced tab fails, the tab could trigger flutter on the surface. Take care, Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (starting wings) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Engineering Test Pilot (613) 952-4319 (work) Transport Canada Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 13, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: jorear(at)mari.net <jorear(at)mari.net> Date: Saturday, June 13, 1998 8:57 AM Subject: RV-List: SPAR HELP > >Hi guys: > > Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you use >to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the >mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets. > > > Jeff, Try the 3-X gun. I tried mine and it worked fine! Tommy Closeing 6-A Wings Ridgetop, Tennessee > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com>
Subject: Insurance
types="text/plain,text/html"; --=====================_24531078==_.ALT Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible. Louis I. Willig larywil(at)home.com (610) 668-4964 Philadelphia, PA --=====================_24531078==_.ALT --=====================_24531078==_.ALT-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
> > > > > Used the Avery large rivet dimpler/riverter "C"-shaped tool and a three pound > hammer to set the spar rivets. First spar took almost three hours, second one > only one hour. Did it on the floor of the hangar alone. Got a great job. No > sweat. Five deliberate blows from the hammer did the job. A few practice rivets > to get the feel of it and you're on your way. No need for a big squeezer. John RV-6A flying > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kelli Lewis <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: oil change
In engines without spin-on filter, oil change is recommended at 25 hours or four months. And WITH spin-on oil filter...........50 hours or four months? Is this right? This is what my owners manual says. Seems like a long time. I am so used to a non-filtered engine, and 25 hours is gospel. What is the concensus? Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com>
Subject: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Jeff- I used an arbor press with a 4 pound hammer. It took about 5 whacks to set each rivet, and they looked fine. It was loaned to me by another RV builder who is also a structures engineer here at Boeing. Great way to go. Rich Z RV6a S/N25224 building L tank > Hi guys: > > Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you > use > to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the > mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets. Does a 4X gun work well? The > pneumatic squeezer that Avery's sells is rated for only up to 1/8th > inch > rivets. Is there a larger (read that more expensive :( ) pneumatic > unit out there? The riveting of the spars is the only thing that I am > a > bit concerned with, and I need the wisdom of the group to decide the > best way to smash those rivets. Thanks for the input group. > > > > Regards, > Jeff Orear > RV6A 25171 wait'n on the wings > Peshtigo, WI > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Fleet" <fleetair(at)wcl.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Seeping tank rivet
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Ihad the same thing happen and I just Put som e P R C on the outside and painted over it you cant see the repair and it dont leak i have been flying it for 3 years. best of luck ron. ---------- > From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Seeping tank rivet > Date: Friday, June 12, 1998 10:39 PM > > > Greeting folks, > > As a final check for seal integrity of my -8 tanks, I put about 5 > gallons of gas in the tanks, and sat them in various attitudes on the > work table. All was fine except for one rivet...on a stiffener of all > places. It seeps fuel slightly....although a "slight" seep is like being > "slightly" pregnant. :) > > So, what's the best way to fix it? I'm planning on drilling it out, and > replacing it with a sealed end pop rivet as used to attach the > Z-brackets to the baffle, along with a dab of sealant. Is this the best > way to go about it? > > Meanwhile, the wings are done...finally! Now, to sit and wait for the > word from Van; spar modification on the way? Aileron static balance need > a fix as well? Oh well, the Wright's weren't easily daunted...nor will I > be. > > Thanks for any input.. > > Brian Denk > -8 #379 > fuselage on the way. > http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/akroshomepage.htm > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Brakes Dragging RV6A
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Ref: Dgw 43a, Rev 4 RV6A After replacing my Cleveland (Parker Hannifin) master cylinder springs with correct ones from Cleveland, I noted that the right side brake pedals (both pilot and passenger) still did not spring back to a fully-extended cylinder stroke =96 in other words, the brakes might drag. I found that both right brake cylinders touched the Wd-655R weldment tube in their last 3/16 inch of their travel to full extension. I checked a friend=92s right pedal assembly and one of his cylinders touches, the other clears by a few thousandths. My proposed fix, plan A: 1) Fill the 3/16 dia hole in the F6117A with JB Weld. 2) Drill a new hole about one hole diameter outboard (away from pedal) from the original hole. Plan B: 1) Remake the F6117A=92s with a longer lobe to provide better edge distance on the relocated hole. In view of the statement that the "last 0.065" of travel of the master cylinder shaft releases the pressure from the brake calipers" (RVator 2nd issue, 1998, p15), I urge you to carefully check out the brake cylinder geometry. Dragging brakes don=92t just cause rapid pad wear =96 they can cause fires and dinged RVs! Dennis Persyk 6A canopy Barrington, IL Hannifin) master cylinder springs with correct ones from Cleveland, I noted that the right side brake pedals (both pilot and passenger) still did not spring back to a fully-extended cylinder stroke – in other words, the brakes might cylinders touched the Wd-655R weldment tube in their last 3/16 inch of their travel to full pedal assembly and one of his cylinders touches, the other clears by a few thousandths. F6117A with JB diameter longer lobe to provide better edge distance on the relocated "last 0.065" of travel of the master cylinder shaft releases the pressure from the brake calipers" (RVator 2nd issue, 1998, p15), I urge you to carefully check out the brake cylinder geometry. Dragging brakes don’t just cause rapid pad wear – they can cause fires and dinged ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 13, 1998
A couple years ago when I did my spars. I rented a large table top squeezer from Vans for $10, It did a great job. That was 410 for a weeks use. Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks CA > >Hi guys: > > Just a quick question for those who are spar-wise. What did you >use >to rivet the spars? I realize that my 3X rivet gun won't cut the >mustard with those 3/16th inch rivets. Does a 4X gun work well? The >pneumatic squeezer that Avery's sells is rated for only up to 1/8th >inch >rivets. Is there a larger (read that more expensive :( ) pneumatic >unit out there? The riveting of the spars is the only thing that I am >a >bit concerned with, and I need the wisdom of the group to decide the >best way to smash those rivets. Thanks for the input group. >Regards, >Jeff Orear >RV6A 25171 wait'n on the wings >Peshtigo, WI > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: hello
<< Hello everyone, I'm new to the list and not getting very many letters. How many a day on average? Thanks. David >> Hello David, Expect 30 to 80 a day. The list was down for a day or two for an upgrade. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
<< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on the Chevy or a standard Lycoming? Bill - finishing fuselage, RV6A >> Hi All, I heard that Ivoprop was the only composite prop manufacturer still putting their prop on four cylinder four cycle engines. I was told that 1% of the Ivoprop props installed on four cylinder four cycle engines don't work out. However, using the "hub tape" identifies this situation before any damage occurs to the prop assembly. This information is for your edification. I am not making an endorsement for, or against, the Ivoprop prop. Jim Ayers LesDrag(at)aol.com Thousand Oaks, Ca. RV-3 Maroon Marauder N47RV LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Magnum High Pitch Electric VP prop ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com>
Subject: IO-360 RV's
Jerry Thanks for your reply to my info quest and the promise to forward my problems to anyone you stumble across that may help. My original note: Jerry > > I was given your address by Edward Cole as the operator of a 200hp > powered RV. > If he hasn't told you - here is my problem. I'm co-building an RV-6 over > here in England and intend fitting a 200hp angle valve IO-360 motor in > it, turning a Hartzell c/s prop. > > Our authorities, whilst happy to clear it with a wooden prop, are > worried that the structure isn't up to the extra weight of this > combination. They class the 4 and 6 as similar structure wise. > > They will be persuaded though if we can prove that RVs have amassed at > least 2000hrs in this configuration elsewhere in the known world. spray or can be brushed on if required. The spray finish is completely idiot proof smooth! By the way, if you are about - UK RV Fly-In at Sibson near Peterborough on Sunday 19 July 98. All the best Jerry Parr RV-6 G-RVVI About to fit said motor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Nick Nafsinger <n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com>
Subject: RV clubs / enthuisists
I'm new to the list and the state of VA. I'm just wondering if anyone knows of a local RV club in the Hampton Roads / Tidewater area of Virgina? Thanks! Nick Nafsinger Workin' on it..... n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com I'm just wondering if anyone knows of a local RV club in the Hampton Roads / ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: RV Chat via ICQ
Hello listers. I have added a section to my web page with directions to download and setup the ICQ chat program, as well as a list of RV builders who are using the program now. The link to the page is: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe/ICQ.htm Get it while it's hot! -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron Balance
Date: Jun 13, 1998
> >My biggest flutter concern relates to the elevator (and aileron) trim >tab. If the linkage to an unbalanced tab fails, the tab could >trigger flutter on the surface. > >Take care, > >Kevin Kevin has it right here, I have said before in this venue and will say again, no matter how casual you are about your preflights, be sure you check the attachment of the trim tab control linkages, because if one of those comes loose it will be a bad day. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
Date: Jun 13, 1998
><< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues > with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on > the Chevy or a standard Lycoming? > > Bill - finishing fuselage, RV6A > >> I live in Clear Lake Iowa about 2 miles from the Warp Drive Plant, and I know Dale K(I cant spell the rest), the owner/designer of Warp Drive. Dale told me he would not let me put a Warp Drive on my 4 cylinder LYC because it would grow "hair at the hub." I will take him at his word. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
> > > What did you use to rivet the spars? Jeff, Check out the URL below and you will see how I used the Avery C-Frame tool to do my spars. It is really easy http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5379/wing.html Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993 Pine Junction Colorado Just put the seat hinges in the wrong way, Oh Well... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: Ralph Koger <kogrh(at)willinet.net>
Subject: Boone, Ia RV day
The annual RV day is next Saturday June 20th. at the Boone Municipal Airport. Everyone is WELCOME to share RV-ing. We are looking for you! If you need more information you may contact me on the RV-list. Ralph Koger N16RK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Insurancetypes="text/plain,text/html";
Date: Jun 13, 1998
> >Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a >policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible. >Louis I. Willig >larywil(at)home.com >(610) 668-4964 >Philadelphia, PA > Scott Smith of SkySmith Intl. is an Insurance broker with a RV program, it covers you in other peoples RV's and has some other neat features for a fair price. http://www.skysmith.com/ is their website, tell him I sent you. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Seeping tank rivet
From: tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano)
Try pulling a slight vacuum on your tank and put some fresh proseal on the leaking rivet. This should suck the proseal in and seal the leak. I came up with this idea several years ago as a means of fixing leaking mooney gas tanks.Someone came out with a kit shortly thereafter to do just that. I'm glad he did, since I had no intention of marketing my idea. Regards, Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: For Sale
<19980524.001450.17174.1.tcastella(at)juno.com>
From: tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano)
I have an unused pair of RV-6 wheel pants for sale. These came with my original finishing kit, and since I am going to use Van's newest (split vertically) design, I have no need for them. I will accept the best offer I receive. Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: QmaxLLC(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Ivoprops
<< it is my opinion based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have researched that these props are dangerous >> Okay, I'm listening with an open mind. I'm totally undecided about a prop. Exactly what experience have you personally had with IVO? What went wrong? What was the response by IVO? Can you state, in detail, a similar litany from "others that I have researched" ? Bob, 6QB well under way ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JHeadric(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Need radio
I am looking for a Val 760 channel radio. If anyone has one they want to sell, please email me. I'd also be interested in a used King KY96A Com. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 13, 1998
From: "Matthew J. Leary" <mjleary(at)elitesys.com>
Subject: New RV construction-log website
I've started a project diary at http://www.elitesys.com/rvdiary/. I hope it gives someone else even a fraction of the help this list and other sites have given me. -Matthew J. Leary - Empennage. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Re: I am famous!!!
Date: Jun 13, 1998
Sorry, my bust, we have another member named Dan Barnhart and I am easily confused. Still congrats on your success and thanks for getting the record straight, I'd hate to hear from Dave Anders that I praised the wrong guy! Marcus RV-6 getting closer > > All: > > "Marcus Cooper" wrote: > > The guy with the fast RV-4 is the other Dave, Dave *Anders*. > > Best Regards, > Dave Barnhart > rv-6 sn 23744 N601DB > Flying > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RV-3 Wheels & brake mounting
I can't get the numbers to add up. Distance from end of axle to flange is 4.75". Outside distance from 1/4" spacer to 1/4" spacer is 3.5". Spacer from flange to 1/4" spacer is supposed to be .75". (This is the old design where the flange-tube points inboard and ends at the flange and the bolt is inboard of the flange, with an additional .75" spacer outboard of the flange.) Axle thread is 1". This puts the outside bearing on the thread and leaves only .5" thread for the axel nut, which is thicker than .5". According to an old RV-ator (No 17, March '78) the Brake Caliper Mount mounts on the outside of the Brake mounting flange with the "brake caliper slide pin tubes" pointing inboard. Is there any reason not to shorten the (outboard of flange) .75" spacer to .5" ? This would move the outboard bearing in onto the un-threaded part of the axel, the 1/4" spacer on the thread, leaving 3/4" for the axel nut - sufficient for three threads showing with the nut tightened. This would also put the brake caliper slide pins further into the tubes - less stress on the pins - yet enough travel to wear pads completely down and 1/8" off the disc. Am I missing something? My old drawings shows a 1/4" bolt, new drawings shows 5/16" bolt. Which should I choose? Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com>
Subject: Oil Changes
Michael You are correct on the oil change intervals for a Lycoming. I look after a fleet of Cessnas for a Flying Club here in England all with spin-on filters so the oil is changed every 50 hours. Our UK regultions for 'Public Transport' aircraft which include Flying Club machines, states that we have to check the aircraft at 50 flying hours or 62 day intervals. This means that if in winter say, the aircraft hasn't flown 50 hours inside 2 months then the oil and filter get changed regardless. Remember that the oil contains all the combustion by-products and other nasty corrosive substances which you don't really want inside the engine. The older the oil, the more crud in it and the worse it is t doing the lubrication and cooling job it it there for. If the motor is standing around unused for long periods the damp and condensation mixes with the oil and degrades its effectiveness almost as much as the in-use contaminants. Personally, if I were you, for a few bucks of oil, I would change the oil every 25 hours even if you don't replace the filter. On our RV-6 we hope to fit an ADC filter with a removable/washable filter screen and will then change the oil every 25 hours. This filter pays for itself over the life of the engine if you work on changing a spin-on every 50 hours and of course you can check/clean the filter any time at no extra charge - particularly useful during the early days of a new engine. As they say: the oil is the life blood of the engine. Bad oil, no engine followed by flying a glider!! Jerry Parr RV-6, G-RVVI Engine hanging soon... Michael wrote: >In engines without spin-on filter, oil change is recommended at 25 hours or >four months. And WITH spin-on oil filter...........50 hours or four >months? >Is this right? This is what my owners manual says. Seems like a long >time. I >am so used to a non-filtered engine, and 25 hours is gospel. What is >the >concensus? >Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Fiberglas Filler
I have been trying to locate a product called Awl Fair (?), made by US Paint & Lacquer. It is supposed to be a very good easy to use epoxy type filler, mixed 1:1. Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbirdman(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Listers, Here is my method for riviting the spars for my RV-6. After tapering the strips and priming all parts, I ordered a hydraulic shop press from Harbor Freight for $100.00. I bolted the spar stiffeners together every few holes and set up using a roller stand (used for supporting long lumber when running thru a table saw) to support the spar and enable me to feed the spar thru the press as riviting progressed. Used a drill bit the same diameter as the recomended thickness of the shop head and slid it back and forth next to the forming shop head as I lowered the ram. When I felt the least amount of drag I stopped. This set the rivit to exact shop head specs. I had drilled the press plate to accept the cupped rivit set, and also I polished the bottom of the ram prior to use. The whole process went well, absolute control, no mis-set rivits, no pounding, and every rivit set exactly the same. Oh to fit the rest of the plane in the press too! I was very pleased with the result and have 100% confidence in the spars. The cost of the press is much less than the cost of pre-built spars, and has come in handy for other things automotive in nature. Gary Bray Carmel, Maine N827GB painting it if prep work is ever done. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Re: New R410PP (Rudder Brace)
<3581A683.8FD7F2FC(at)shianet.org>
From: carowbotham(at)Juno.com (Charles A Rowbotham)
Bill, Bends, lightening hole and PP holes to flange done. Needed to make 2 cuts. $ well spent, thanks to the List - advising R410PP. Chuck RV-8AQB > >For those who have purchased the *new* R410PP (rudder brace) from >Van's: > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: ADC 'filter' (non)performance
<< On our RV-6 we hope to fit an ADC filter with a removable/washable filter screen and will then change the oil every 25 hours. This filter pays for itself over the life of the engine if you work on changing a spin-on every 50 hours and of course you can check/clean the filter any time at no extra charge - particularly useful during the early days of a new engine. >> I saw a comparison sheet about the std screen, the ADC (Oberg), and a std spin-on. The spin-on outperformed all others in the 30-60 micron range by such a large margin that the comparison was ludicrous. Keep in mind that the ADC/Oberg is simply a larger version of the std screen- not much help (in stopping the particles that actually cause the damage), in other words. There is a screen available the you can sandwich between the spin-on and its mounting pad, to stop the larger particles. BTW- ADC now sells a spin-on adapter system....that might tell you something. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Fly-by Knight interiors
Has anybody had experience with one of Sam Knight's interiors for an RV? Quality? Delivery time? Responsiveness to queries? Please send replies direct to me. (If they are positive, by all means post to the list if you wish.) I can find customers for Orndorff and Lauritsen (Cleaveland) interiors, but not Sam Knight. Peter Bennett pbennett(at)zip.com.au Sydney Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: SPAR HELP
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Gary Bray Wrote: > Listers, > Here is my method for riviting the spars for my RV-6. After tapering the > strips and priming all parts, I ordered a hydraulic shop press from Harbor > Freight for $100.00. >----rest of messsage cut---- I ordered and have just received the same press from Harbor Freight and have the exact same intentions for it's use. Myself and a couple of local RV builders (Jon Ross & Scott Gesele) discussed the possibilities for the spar rivets and like Gary we felt that this approach should work very well. As mentioned it seems like it would be very useful for other riveting work also, especially areas like the HS spar which would easily fit inside the press. I will post to the list when I have done the spar riveting in a few weeks and let you all know how it worked out but based on Gary's results it should go well. Dave Lundquist RV-6 Wings, going slowly Stony Brook, Long Island, NY > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Brakes Dragging RV6A
> > > > > Ref: Dgw 43a, Rev 4 RV6A > > After replacing my Cleveland (Parker Hannifin) master cylinder > springs with correct ones from Cleveland, I noted that the right > side brake pedals (both pilot and passenger) still did not spring > back to a fully-extended cylinder stroke =96 in other words, the > brakes might drag. > > I found that both right brake cylinders touched the Wd-655R weldment > tube in their last 3/16 inch of their travel to full extension. I > checked a friend=92s right pedal assembly and one of his cylinders > touches, the other clears by a few thousandths. My fix was to remove the offending material from the master cylinders. Doesn't need much filing. Peter Bennett Sydney Australia RV6 tailwheel on, main gear happening ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: Fly-by Knight interiors
Date: Jun 14, 1998
> Has anybody had experience with one of Sam Knight's interiors for an > RV? Quality? Delivery time? Responsiveness to queries? > > Please send replies direct to me. (If they are positive, by all means > post to the list if you wish.) I think a purpose of the list is to share all things RV among other listers, so we can ALL benefit. Negative reviewer's...PLEASE post to the list, I myself am wondering about this interior supplier. Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Ivoprops
<< Okay, I'm listening with an open mind. I'm totally undecided about a prop. Exactly what experience have you personally had with IVO? What went wrong? What was the response by IVO? Can you state, in detail, a similar litany from "others that I have researched" ? Bob, 6QB well under way >> Hi All, And from an open mind with experience, JRwillJR, please identify which Ivoprop you have experience with; the ULTRLIGHT prop, or the MAGNUM prop. IMHO, only the Ivoprop MAGNUM prop is applicable to the Lyc/Cont engines normally used on RV's. Play fair. Apples to apples. Jim Ayers Least Drag(at)aol.com RV-3 N47RV Maroon Marauder LOM M332A engine and Ivoprop MAGNUM prop with ESMTP id XAA03382; From: QmaxLLC(at)aol.com Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 22:43:20 EDT Subject: Re: RV-List: Ivoprops << it is my opinion based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have researched that these props are dangerous >> Okay, I'm listening with an open mind. I'm totally undecided about a prop. Exactly what experience have you personally had with IVO? What went wrong? What was the response by IVO? Can you state, in detail, a similar litany from "others that I have researched" ? Bob, 6QB well under way ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lott, Michael" <Michael.Lott(at)ssc.nasa.gov>
Subject: engine mount
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Am I correct to assume if I get a motor mount from Van's that will fit an h2ad engine, it will also fit other 0-320's, and 0-360's, if I am lucky enough to be able to upgrade when it comes time to hang an engine? Thanks. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly In
<< What airport and how many RV's do you expect? Thanks.. >> Vance brand airport or better known as Longmont airport (2v2). Usually we see at least 30 RVs. There are 9 based on the field and several others in the surrounding area. Ryan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Carol Knight <cknight(at)rmci.net>
Subject: Fly by Knight Interiors
Kitplane Builders, As I am also a subscriber to the RV list, I noticed I was the topic of conversation today. For those who asked, my interiors can be seen at airshows across the nation. The owner of PaPa-51 has my interior in his Glasair and P-51 Mustang. Most of the P-51 Mustangs will have my interior. The (Skystar, Inc.) factory-built Kitfox and Pulsar all have my interiors as do most of the private owners of Kitfox. There should be some of my interiors in the RV-4, RV-6, and RV-8 in airshows, but I don't know whose will be there. You might ask the owners or you might be able to match the interiors with the photos I sent out. As I mentioned before, I have several interior upholstery products for other models of kitplanes. Samples of fabrics will be provided upon request. Please indicate what type fabric you are interested in and what color range. Again, photos are available upon request. If you have any further questions or comments, please let me know. Phone: (208) 342-2602 or e-mail: cknight(at)rmci.net Sincerely, Knight Aircraft Interiors, Inc. "Fly by Knight" Upholstery Products Sam Knight ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Fiberglas Filler
Denny, ... my West Marine catalog shows this (Awl-Fair) as a standard product. Two parts needed, both in qt. size at about $45 each. This is an old catalog, I'm just going there and will see if they still sell it. Catalog sales # 800-538-0775. ...Gil (painting boats this weekend) Alexander PS let us know how Awl-Fair works out. An epoxy based creamy filler should be ideal for pin-hole filling in those glass parts... but not good for the "I want it now" crowd since it has a 24 hr. cure time...:^) > >I have been trying to locate a product called Awl Fair (?), made by US Paint >& Lacquer. It is supposed to be a very good easy to use epoxy type filler, >mixed 1:1. > >Have a good one! >Denny - RV-6 finishing >harje(at)proaxis.com >Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: Ivoprops
Date: Jun 14, 1998
> > IMHO, only the Ivoprop MAGNUM prop is applicable to the Lyc/Cont engines > normally used on RV's. > > Play fair. Apples to apples. A new style IVO Magnum recently failed, in flight, on a Velocity using a Lycoming four-banger. At Oshkosh I will try to get the EAA prop failure report, in an attempt to finally put this issue to rest. My guess is that on Lycoming four bangers, judging from my previous research and avoidance of factory reps to come forth with statistics proving otherwise, will show that a Lycoming O-320/360 and Magnum mix is a bad one. Rob (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl White" <whiteca(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: trade
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Have recently restored '67 Citabria 7ECA to trade for RV8QB or project. Contact direct for jpg & details. whiteca(at)msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jorear(at)mari.net
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Paranoid control horn question
Hi Group: First of all, many thanks to those who responded to my wing spar riveting question. I now have a couple of options on how to do that. I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control horns are not lined up. In other words, one is swept further aft than the other. I have assured myself that both elevators are spaced the same from the trailing edge of the HS. At the tip of the control horn the stagger measures about 3/16 inches at most. Will this give me headaches further down the road? Other that drilling the horns so that the elevators are not lined up (something I *don't* want to do!!), what can be done about it? I have one control horn drilled, and I am going to wait until I hear from the group before I do the other one. Thanks for the help. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Paranoid control horn question
> I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will > accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have > both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with > the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control > horns are not lined up. Jeff - Mine are not lined up as good as I would like either but unless you are going to weld up new horns there is no easy cure. I made sure the elevators matched on the horizontal in trail and drilled the through hole. The same on the control tube hole. The control stops need to be "jogged" to match the offset between the horns but the important thing is to make sure that each elevator is matched to each other and both travel the proper distances in unison. Hope this helps. DGM RV-6 engine area Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: John Ammeter <ammeterj(at)seanet.com>
Subject: Re: Paranoid control horn question
t> > > >I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will >accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have >both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with >the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control >horns are not lined up. In other words, one is swept further aft than >the other. I have assured myself that both elevators are spaced the >same from the trailing edge of the HS. At the tip of the control horn >the stagger measures about 3/16 inches at most. > >Will this give me headaches further down the road? Other that drilling >the horns so that the elevators are not lined up (something I *don't* >want to do!!), what can be done about it? I have one control horn >drilled, and I am going to wait until I hear from the group before I do >the other one. Thanks for the help. > > >Regards, >Jeff Orear >RV6A 25171 >Peshtigo, WI > Remember the adage that goes something like: fit the parts to the plane not to the plans. As long as there is no binding when the elevators are run from stop to stop you should drill the hole wherever you need to. I'd suggest you mark where the errant hole 'wants' to be and then move the elevator up and down. If the mark shows that the elevator is straight (not warped) then drill it where you have it. On the other hand if the horn moves all over the place when you move the elevator then you have a problem with alignment of the hinge rods. John Ammeter ammeterj(at)seanet.com Seattle WA USA 1974 1/2 JH-5 RV-6 (sold 4/14/98) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Ivoprops
Jim--we have had this discussion before--regarding my exp. with the IVO and that of others I have researched--a few cases in person. It is my opinion that the IVO is not the right prop for 99.99% of RV builders. As you probably recall--my IVO was on a KFOX. I have also seen the results of a IVO on a 0-320 Midget Mustang. You said that my exp. with the smaller IVO was not relevent--I said that if an IVO cannot stay together on a 65 horsepower geared engine with a rubber drive coupling and a reputation for smoothness then how can an IVO possibly stay together on a big fourbanging direct drive Lyc. I admit I have not flown an IVO on a RV and I respect your opinion and your obviously good results--but as I recall you never answered my question---How many different IVO's have you had on your excellent RV--what problems have you had--why is there no spinner---do you expect that the average builder would want to be this experimental with a critical component like a prop. I think not. I had resolved not to post on this issue again as I really think much of you and do not wish to offend you are anyone else but when I see folks seriously considering an IVO I think they need to hear the darkside also. Then they can make a decision that is not one sided. Safe flying and a fair sky--JR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)chaffee.net>
Subject: Light Speed Engineering "Magneto"
Noted reference to LSE's electronic "magneto" in latest RVAtor. Any opinions as to whether its worth the almost $1K or not? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Charles Woodson <woodson(at)soe.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: RV-8 empanage kit for sale
Rick, you have probably sold your kit. If not, I am a little interested. Best wishes. Charles Woodson http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~cw ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com>
Subject: RV UK Fly-In
Message to all UK (or any of you from wherever in the world if you want to come!) RV owners, flyers, builders and anyone else who cares: Sunday 19th July 1998 3rd Annual UK RV Fly-In Sibson Airfield Peterborough, England If you are interested in coming then you are all most welcome. Sibson is about 100 miles North of London just next to the A1 road. For further details, especially if you're flying in (we have people throwing themselves from aeroplanes over the airfield so there is no overhead join, and no circuit deadside) ring: UK (0)1832 280289 Jerry Parr RV-6, G-RVVI Peterborough, England Engine etc (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Paranoid control horn question
MAKE SURE BOTH ELEVATORS ARE ALIGNED AERODYNAMICLY. THIS DOES NOT MEAN WITH THE BALANCE HORNS LINED UP! A VERY SLIGHT TWIST IN EITHER OR BOTH WILL CAUSE YOUR PROBLEM. ALIGN THE CHORD LINES WITH THE HORIZONTAL STAB AND SEE WHAT YOU HAVE. RVER273SB CO. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Fiberglas Filler
> >Denny, > ... my West Marine catalog shows this (Awl-Fair) as a standard product. > > Two parts needed, both in qt. size at about $45 each. > > This is an old catalog, I'm just going there and will see if they >still sell it. Still for sale and listed in the 1998 catalog, about $47 each component in qts. Gil (the boat painter) Alexander > > Catalog sales # 800-538-0775. > > ...Gil (painting boats this weekend) Alexander > Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: gw <gwhite(at)vaxxine.com>
Subject: Trade Siren sailboat 4 RV Kit
Will trade 17 foot SIREN sailboat and trailer for RV Kit or other project. Cabin sleeps two and has 3 sails, alcohol stove and motor mount and running lights. Call Gary 905-262-5822 or gwhite(at)vaxxine.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Thomas Velvick <tvelvick(at)caljet.com>
Subject: great pro-sealing secret revealed
I have found out the easy, fast and effective way to proseal my tanks. Have an expert help with the pro-sealing. Piece of cake. One tank down. One to go. Regards, Tom Velvick rv-6a wing tanks Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: great pro-sealing secret revealed
So what is the secret? QB wings? -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe Thomas Velvick wrote: > > > I have found out the easy, fast and effective way to proseal my tanks. > Have an expert help with the pro-sealing. Piece of cake. One tank down. > One to go. > > Regards, > Tom Velvick > rv-6a wing tanks > Phoenix, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Ivoprops
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Ivoprops Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 16:56:47 EDT Jim--we have had this discussion before--regarding my exp. with the IVO and that of others I have researched--a few cases in person. It is my opinion that the IVO is not the right prop for 99.99% of RV builders. As you probably recall--my IVO was on a KFOX. I have also seen the results of a IVO on a 0-320 Midget Mustang. You said that my exp. with the smaller IVO was not relevent--I said that if an IVO cannot stay together on a 65 horsepower geared engine with a rubber drive coupling and a reputation for smoothness then how can an IVO possibly stay together on a big fourbanging direct drive Lyc. I admit I have not flown an IVO on a RV and I respect your opinion and your obviously good results--but as I recall you never answered my question---How many different IVO's have you had on your excellent RV--what problems have you had--why is there no spinner---do you expect that the average builder would want to be this experimental with a critical component like a prop. I think not. I had resolved not to post on this issue again as I really think much of you and do not wish to offend you are anyone else but when I see folks seriously considering an IVO I think they need to hear the darkside also. Then they can make a decision that is not one sided. Safe flying and a fair sky--JR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Painting fiberglass
Listers I'm painting the inside of my -4 and I've come across something I have not faced yet, painting fiberglass. It's only the top portion of the rear seat back, but I'm not sure how to prep it. Any advise? Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee, FL. Endless details ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Subject: Re: great pro-sealing secret revealed
> >I have found out the easy, fast and effective way to proseal my tanks. >Have an expert help with the pro-sealing. Piece of cake. One tank down. >One to go. > I've seen that there are a couple of individuals who advertise to complete your fuel tanks. What do they charge and what is the quality of their work? Bill Pagan -8A tanks & other wing things > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Re: engine mount
Thanks, Rob. I meant if I was lucky enough to upgrade to a bigger engine. I wasn't knocking h2ad's. Michael. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: Ross Hoffman <rhoff(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Tail Kit - CHEAP!
I have a RV-4 tail kit with plans for an RV-4 and plans and heavy skins to also build as a Harmon Rocket. Will sell cheap or trade. Located just south of Atlanta, GA. e-mail to rhoff(at)mindspring.com Thanks! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Subject: Death of N929JC
It is with the deepest regret that I inform the list that "Rudy, the red nosed airplane," my pride and joy N929JC, a beautiful and wonderful flying RV-6A was destroyed this morning when the hangar it was in was blown down by a severe storm that passed over the airport. In all, 10 airplanes were crushed, most owned by members of EAA chapter 32. I so loved that plane which just the day before flew 17 Young Eagle flights. I cannot be without an RV and as soon as I get the proceeds from the insurance (AVEMCO), I will be a repeat offender. I will let you know how the insurance claim goes. Interestingly enough, of all of the planes on which the hangar fell, my RV held up the best. A two story wall fell on the canopy and left side of the plane. The canopy did not break. The G meter showed 6.2 positive and 4.5 negative. The left wing did not break but the force of the wall bent the left main landing gear and the mount. All of the other planes that had the same amount of debris fall on them were crushed and crumpled like soda cans. What an incredible machine Van designed. Looking forward to "Rudy II." Jim Cone ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Death of N929JC
Date: Jun 15, 1998
James Sorry to hear your bad news. I hope everything goes well with the insurance and getting back into the air again. Best regards Chris ____ Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995 Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751 Systems Manager e-mail: chinch(at)arl.co.nz 442 Moray Place, PO Box 5580, Dunedin, New Zealand RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm -----Original Message----- From: JamesCone(at)aol.com <JamesCone(at)aol.com> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 4:25 PM Subject: RV-List: Death of N929JC > >It is with the deepest regret that I inform the list that "Rudy, the red nosed >airplane," my pride and joy N929JC, a beautiful and wonderful flying RV-6A was >destroyed this morning when the hangar it was in was blown down by a severe >storm that passed over the airport. In all, 10 airplanes were crushed, most >owned by members of EAA chapter 32. I so loved that plane which just the day >before flew 17 Young Eagle flights. I cannot be without an RV and as soon as >I get the proceeds from the insurance (AVEMCO), I will be a repeat offender. >I will let you know how the insurance claim goes. Interestingly enough, of >all of the planes on which the hangar fell, my RV held up the best. A two >story wall fell on the canopy and left side of the plane. The canopy did not >break. The G meter showed 6.2 positive and 4.5 negative. The left wing did >not break but the force of the wall bent the left main landing gear and the >mount. All of the other planes that had the same amount of debris fall on >them were crushed and crumpled like soda cans. What an incredible machine Van >designed. Looking forward to "Rudy II." > >Jim Cone > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 14, 1998
From: "Larry D. Hoatson" <lhoatson(at)empirenet.com>
Subject: Re: Death of N929JC
Jim, I am so sorry to hear about your plane - best wishes at getting airborn again Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Paranoid control horn question
Date: Jun 14, 1998
Jeff, The most important point is to make sure that the elevators stay in the same relative plane. My horns staggered about an eighth when the elevators were held in alignment. I actually had to offset the center bearing as the tube on one horn was about an eighth too long. I never thought to check the dimensions until I had trouble mounting the one elevator and the horn was very tightly riveted on. Anyway, even w/ the offset, the elevators track well. Jeff Farrar RV-8A Chandler, AZ -----Original Message----- From: jorear(at)mari.net <jorear(at)mari.net> Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 12:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Paranoid control horn question > > >Hi Group: > > >>I am in the process of drilling the holes in the control horns that will >accept the bolt that passes through the main bearing in the HS. I have >both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with >the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control >horns are not lined up> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Paranoid control horn question
<< I have both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control horns are not lined up. >> Jeff, Its not uncommon to have the horns offset from one another a slight amount. But when you align your elevators you need to align the trailing edges of your elevators not the counterbalances. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au>
Subject: is this true?
Hi all, I just got this from the zodiac list that im also subscribet to. Is this true, and if it is, does anyone know anything about it? *snip* >And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit >purchasers. *snip* cheers Todd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FMark40(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Magnetos
I'm overhauling a Bendix magneto as part of a major overhaul of my Lycoming engine. I would like to use the proper bearing grease, but the Bendix Magneto grease is 34 dollars to buy. Does anyone out there know of a suitable substitute for the Bendix grease ? I would also like a substitute for Bendix Breaker Felt Lubricant. Also, I would like to thank those who recommended I order a set of Lycoming service documents. I received a box of paper 5 inches high. It included an index by title and by engine type. I sorted it into applicable Service Bulletins, Service Instructions, and Service Letters. Now I have three binders that have the information to fill in my knowledge gap about engine overhaul and engine operation in general. I would say that owning a set of these documents is a must for an airplane owner and mechanic. Mark McGee RV4 Wings (on hold till I finish an $ overhaul $ on the Colt's engine) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: 200hp RV's
Date: Jun 15, 1998
G"day Jerry, I live in Albany, South Western Australia. You could say this country is a bit bigger, like Cairns is 1,847 nautical miles as the crow flies and their is nothing nautical between here and there ! I don't know Paul, though I do know a lot of builders over East as most years I go over to our national "rally". That's near Melbourne, a lot closer, like only 10 flying in a Rv at 150 knots. I have a Thorp T18 and am up to the fuselage skeleton on jig stage of a n Rv6.Not in a hurry as the T18 is a joy to fly and just as fast as an RV. We have 2 Rv6's anRv6a and an Rv4 in the town (23,00 people) plus 3 Rv8's, 3Rv6a and 4 Rv6's under construction. The usual problem with Rv6's and wood prop is tail heaviness, can't see you having that problem ! Cheers, Brian ---------- > From: jerry parr <parravion(at)mcmail.com> > To: rv builders list > Subject: RV-List: 200hp RV's > Date: Sunday, June 14, 1998 4:59 PM > > > Thanks Brian for the sympathy vote! > > It's a funny old thing but I keep hearing of -8 builders on the scrounge > for cheap engines and props!! > If we get permission (and we should know soon!) then it will be fun to > have something a bit different, even if it does mean a fair bit of > plastic stuff to get stuck into.... > > On the subject of RV's 'down under' - where are you based? I know > Australia is a touch bigger than the UK, but I have a mate, Paul > Salisbury, who emigrated to Cairns a few years back and should have a -4 > flying by now. > > Jerry Parr > RV-6, G-RVVI > Peterborough, England > That engine > > > Brian Holman wrote: > > You could probably sell your engine- prop combination to a Rv8 builder > and > get a new 320 or 360 and prop, get cash back and both be better off. > Sounds > like your Dept. of Agrivation is as difficult as the our Australian one > is. > Good luck, Brian > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: is this true?
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Have you measured your legs lately, I think you might find one is longer than the other ? Brian ---------- > From: Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au> > Hi all, > > I just got this from the zodiac list that im also subscribet to. > Is this true, and if it is, does anyone know anything about it? > > *snip* > >And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit > >purchasers. > *snip* ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au>
Subject: Determining TAS using GPS
Recently there was a thread regarding the calculation of TAS from a series of GPS airspeed measurements. I made a comment that it was only necessary to fly three different legs to collect sufficient information to calculate TAS. I have put (.pdf format) a more detailed explanation on my newly created web page. http://www.hlos.com.au/~doug.gray/home.html Doug Gray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
In a message dated 6/13/98 9:58:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dougr(at)petroblend.com writes: << ><< BAP also uses, and likes, Warp Drive props. I am aware of the issues > with IVO props, but has anyone had experience with Warp Drive, either on > the Chevy or a standard Lycoming? >> I bought a Warp Drive four blade prop for my Chevy, but I haven't flown it yet. On a a 6 cylinder, PSRU equipped engine, dynamics are VERY different from a direct drive four cylinder engine. I personally would not use either the Warp or Ivo on a direct drive four cylinder engine - period. Just my $.02 worth Regards, Merle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Ivoprops
In a message dated 6/13/98 12:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JRWillJR(at)aol.com writes: << it is my opinion based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have researched that these props are dangerous and it does not suprise me that Avemco will not insure them--I would not either. >> Did you use this prop on a Lycoming ??? Regards, Merle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: is this true?
> >*snip* >>And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit >>purchasers. > *snip* > >cheers >Todd Of course it is Todd. Van is just that way! Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andy Rice <arice(at)ramaker.com>
Subject: Ivoprops
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Although I'm not yet building my 8 (I'm being frugal and educating myself in all possible ways first). I rarely make contributions to the list.... But, this is something I feel strongly about. Currently I fly a Challenger from Quad City Ultralights. We have had only bad experiences with Ivoprops, specifically coming apart in flight. If you have ever met the people who makes these, I have at Oshkosh and Sun and Fun, you would never purchase anything from them. They were dirtballs. I have heard this from many people...no one has been happy with their work (that I'm aware of). I'm not sure if there is anything suitable, but we have been using Warp Drive with great success with great factory support. Thanks, Andy Rice Reviewing Preview Plans, Building Videos, and RVAtor > > In a message dated 6/13/98 12:22:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > JRWillJR(at)aol.com > writes: > > << it is my opinion > based on my experiance with an IVO and that of others that I have > researched > that these props are dangerous and it does not suprise me that Avemco > will > not > insure them--I would not either. >> > > Did you use this prop on a Lycoming ??? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Ivoprops
Merle--you building a RV now--great! No the prop was not on a Lyc--you know my thought on the IVO--nuff said. How are you doing--going to get ot Oshkosh this year?JR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Rudder Cable Attach
I have run my cables for the rudder, and after connecting to the horn, the distance between the rudder pedals and the cables is about 6". Should the splice plates be this long? It seems like they should be more like 1 1/2-2" long... Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona Mounting empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Andy Rice <arice(at)ramaker.com>
Subject: Ivoprops
Date: Jun 15, 1998
I believe the guys from Kolb tested an Ivo prop, but first mounted some sort of plate on the fuselage (under prop), so if it came off, it wouldn't tear the empennage off. Andy Rice Reviewing Preview Plans, Building Videos, and RVAtor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: "A. Reichert" <alan(at)mattress.atww.org>
Subject: Re: is this true?
No. Someone obviously missed the point of that message, and took it out of context. Did you get the *whole* message, or just this part? - Alan On Mon, 15 Jun 1998, Todd Lattimer wrote: > > Hi all, > > I just got this from the zodiac list that im also subscribet to. > Is this true, and if it is, does anyone know anything about it? > > *snip* > >And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit > >purchasers. > *snip* > > cheers > Todd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: is this true?
I think they should make this retroactive to all RV buyers in within the last 25 years, so we can all have free Lycomings! Paul > >> >>*snip* >>>And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit >>>purchasers. >> *snip* >> >>cheers >>Todd > > Of course it is Todd. Van is just that way! >Have a good one! >Denny - RV-6 finishing >harje(at)proaxis.com >Lebanon, OR > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Kevin Shelton <k.j.shelton(at)larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: RV clubs / enthuisists
> >I'm new to the list and the state of VA. I'm just wondering if anyone >knows of a local RV club in the Hampton Roads / Tidewater area of >Virgina? Thanks! > >Nick Nafsinger >Workin' on it..... >n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com > >I'm just wondering if anyone knows of a local RV club in the Hampton >Roads / > I don't know of any RV clubs here in Hampton Roads, but I know of several 6A's and an 8 being built. I also know of a 4 that is flying and there is also a new member in our EA Ch156 that is building a Quick Build RV6A. Check out our chapter at http://members.aol.com/eaa156 Maybe we should start a club. RV-8 wanna be builder PA28 N4852L Kevin Shelton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: oil change
Date: Jun 15, 1998
> >In engines without spin-on filter, oil change is recommended at 25 hours or >four months. And WITH spin-on oil filter...........50 hours or four months? >Is this right? This is what my owners manual says. Seems like a long time. I >am so used to a non-filtered engine, and 25 hours is gospel. What is the >concensus? > >Michael > This is the textbook advice for oil change intervals and is pretty widely accepted as the gospel. There is a little more to it than that.... Editorial starts here: The pink panther has a 160 hp 320 FI without a filter. It has 270 SMOH. I analyze every change. I have been running about 30-35 hrs. I fly about 15 hrs per month, more this time of year, and I have only added one quart of oil to it since I bought it (160hrs and that wasn't really needed) My metals on the analysis are consistently low. Some important factors to consider if regarding oil drains intervals are: Where do you live? How much do you fly? Do you analyze? How much oil do you use? Where is the oil you use going? Do you have a filter? How hot does your engine run? How high does your oil temp get? Lets discuss these individually. Where do you live? if you live in a high humidity area or where the day to night temps vary greatly with high humidity your engine will make water. If you routinely find drops of water on your dipstick when you pull it out, don't push drain intervals. If on the other hand you live in AZ and the humidity is nearly zero your oil will last longer. How much do you fly? If you fly a lot and regularly your oil the water that your engine makes gets cooked out often and the number of days between drains will be less. Most would agree that if an engine is run at all, the oil should be changed at least 3 time per year and 4 would be better, without regard for hours at all. This is especially true if you live in the North or on the Coast as described above. Do you analyze? Used oil analysis is a tremendous tool to give you some more insight into what might be happening in you engine. Oil analysis will not predict all failures, however very often it will give you warning signs that something is going wrong before it actually does. If you use oil analysis consistently and have a history on your engine you can use it to safely extend your drain interval. How much oil do you use? And where does it go? If your engine uses oil and you add a quart every 10 hrs, your oil supply is being "sweetened" by the fresh oil you add and this might make it possible to extend your drain. If the oil you are using is leaking. If your engine is burning that oil then the chances are that the same route that allows the oil out of the crankcase is letting contaminates in to the crankcase and all the harmful combustion by products that come with it. If on the other hand it is just running out the blower seal or turbo bearings the continuous supply of fresh oil will mean you can again safely extend your drain. Do you have a filter? Obviously the filter removes particulate contaminants down to about 10 microns. This will help prevent wear in your engine and keep you oil cleaner longer. The screen serves almost no function other than to catch parts large enough to have part #s visible so when you check it you will know something is wrong. Hence it is very important that if you have a filter you also have a filter cutter so you can make sure there are none of those part # size parts in your filter. How hot does your engine run? This question is about heat. If you have an extremely tightly cowled airplane that runs very high CHT's and a very effective oil cooler you could be burning up your oil and still have normal oil temps. Temperature accelerated oxidation. For every 10 degrees of oil temp above 210 oxidation rates double. Typical oil temp gauges measure the temperature of the oil being returned to the engine. That should be the COOLEST point in the system. if you are running 210 degrees there, you can bet the oil temps around the valve guides are far in excess of that! Especially if you get greedy with the mixture lever.... How high does you oil temp run? This question is about not enough heat. If you don't get your oil temp up to 180 you will not effectively boil off the water that is formed by condensation. Shell had an excellent aircraft ad campaign recently about the importance of not running with your oil temp too low. Water when in the presence of combustion by-products will make acids. This acids are corrosive and destructive and the reason why if your engine runs at all the oil should still be changed regularly by the calendar, without regard for hours. Now that you are totally confused let me finish by saying whether it is a car, truck or an airplane, the hardest engine to lubricate is the one that seldom runs and when it does runs for short times. These engines should be serviced by the calendar not the odometer or hobbs timer. If you fly a lot and change oil regularly you will not have oil related problems. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com http://www.petroblend.com/dougr - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Suction/Vacuum Pressure
Later Bonanzas use pressure systems. The pump moves air thru the instruments one way or the other. hal > > The "P" is for pressure and the "V" is for vacuum. Some equipment uses > pressure to spin the gyros (most notably turbine based stuff) and almost > every GA type uses vacuum. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: RV clubs / enthuisists
Date: Jun 15, 1998
I'm a ways away from Hampton Roads, but I am building a 6A in Roanoke, VA, there is also a local (Bill Boyd) who just got his 6A flying. He is near Fincastle (that's close to Roanoke). ************************************************* * Gary Fesenbek * * Meridium Inc. * * (540) 344-9205 x112 * * gfesenbek(at)meridium.com * * http://www.meridium.com * ************************************************* > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Shelton [SMTP:k.j.shelton(at)larc.nasa.gov] > Sent: Monday, June 15, 1998 12:52 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV clubs / enthuisists > > > > > > > >I'm new to the list and the state of VA. I'm just wondering if > anyone > >knows of a local RV club in the Hampton Roads / Tidewater area of > >Virgina? Thanks! > > > >Nick Nafsinger > >Workin' on it..... > >n.nafsinger(at)mci2000.com > > > >I'm just wondering if anyone knows of a local RV club in the Hampton > >Roads / > > > > I don't know of any RV clubs here in Hampton Roads, but I know of > several > 6A's and an 8 being built. I also know of a 4 that is flying and there > is > also a new member in our EA Ch156 that is building a Quick Build RV6A. > Check out our chapter at http://members.aol.com/eaa156 > Maybe we should start a club. > > RV-8 wanna be builder > PA28 N4852L > Kevin Shelton > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
Check the archives. Many with *NO* actual experience have a lot to say on both sides of the issue. There are lots of emotional outbursts, too. Weight. Brodix heads will add about $1600 to cost and cut weight about forty pounds. BAP claims gross wt of 1156 with iron heads. About the same as a very light O-320 with a small passenger. With a non-stock cam you might have 235 hp. hal > Has anyone had actual experience with Belted Air Power's Chevy V6 > installation for the RV6A? I have talked to them at length, and they > sound pretty good at face value. I know Van's attitude about > non-Lycoming engines, but at those prices.............!! The Chevy V6 > puts out about 180-200 HP in the range of 4400 rpm, which is about the > right speed for the PSRU that BAP sells. One issue with the Chev is > weight: but that could be offset with aftermarket aluminum heads (Brodix > makes heads that fit this rpm range). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
Rob wrote: > I spoke to a test pilot involved with the project this past weekend, he > informed me the PSRU > belt has shredded a couple of times in flight, one occurence resulting in > an off-field landing. If this is true, it makes me feel better about my > engine decision. That may be a big "if". Is the test pilot of last year still with the firm? How did he change from ultra positive as any used car salesman to ultra negative so quickly? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Rob Reece <reece(at)rt66.com>
Subject: Re: oil change
Doug- Thanks for the great posting and great information. Where can I get a copy of the Shell info? >Shell had an excellent aircraft ad >campaign recently about the importance of not running with your oil temp too >low. Rob Reece RV-3 SN45 (Starting Spar Mod) Rob Reece Microcosm Manager - Rocket Engine Test Site (RTS), & Scorpius Launch Coordinator/Liaison Engineer Phone: (505) 835-5716 Fax: (505) 835-5714/5680 Email: reece(at)rt66.com Microcosm Inc. c/o Energetic Materials Research & Testing Center Mail Station, New Mexico Institute of Mining Technology Socorro, NM 87801 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark J Reisdorfer" <mreisdorfer(at)ipapilot.org>
Subject: Re: Death of N929JC
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Jim, > >It is with the deepest regret that I inform the list that "Rudy, the red nosed >airplane," my pride and joy N929JC, a beautiful and wonderful flying RV-6A was >destroyed .....> Very sorry to hear about your bird. You and your lovely bride gave my wife and myself a ride back to the airport after the banquet at Oshkosh last year. I had a friend who had recently finished a complete rebuild of a Stearman and had the same misfortune. Good luck with the rebuild, Mark Reisdorfer RV8 80020 Floyds Knobs, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: William Fletcher <wfletcher(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: St. George Utah Builders
Im wanting to know if there is any builders in the St. George, Utah area. You can email me off the list at wfletcher(at)worldnet.att.net Thanks Bill Fletcher ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
Date: Jun 15, 1998
> > That may be a big "if". Is the test pilot of last year still with the firm? > How did he change from ultra positive as any used car salesman to ultra negative > so quickly? Hal, Like you posted earlier, there's lots of emotion and misinformation posted on this subject...kinda' like those unprimered quickbuilds . To address your questions, I know the former test pilot to be a credible person so I tend to believe him about the PSRU failures. I can't help you on the person who changed from ultra positive to ultra negative, or did so quickly, or was at some time a used car salesmen...don't know him or her. Rob (RV-6Q, Socal). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: F-618 seat rib to F604(6A)
Date: Jun 15, 1998
1> My fwd flange (that needs 9-#3 rivets) almost lines up with the upper & lower AN-3 bolts through the spar stiffeners ONLY on the 2- F618's. If I try to go to the next spacing, thats too far. Can I just leave the top & bottom rivets out & use the 2 bolts as long as I can get the nuts on? Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com Dan, I think I did exactly what you are suggesting. Ken Harrill RV-6, skinning fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Rare earth magnets
I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of debris that always float around the engine in the oil. I've got a couple of (perhaps dumb) questions for anyone who has had experience with these. 1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal? 2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass (about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away? Thanks for your help. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Attach
Don"t know for sure but on my 4 this was made up for by the adjustment straps. Two each side with multiple holes in them. Mine were about 6 in long RVer273sb Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: GLOMBARD <gLombard(at)empire.net>
Subject: Flutter mechanics
I have been watching the aileron counterbalance discussion and thought that It might be helpful discuss some flutter mechanics. I am an aerospace engineer and work with flight dynamics but not specifically with flutter problems so I am not a flutter expert. If there are flutter experts out there feel free to correct me or elaborate and I apologize if I don't have the terminology correct. Hopefully this will be helpful. It is not enough information to do any type of analysis but may at least help with mental picture of how flutter works. I'd like to put my opinion of the bottom line first. I agree with the earlier comments about the danger of play in the control system or trim system and about the difficulty in predicting the speeds when flutter will occur. The ultimate confirmation of flutter resistance in a design is testing. All of the RV's have presumably been tested up to their Vne's. If you are planning on exceeding this speed then you should probably talk to the designer or one of the other guys who have done it. As mentioned in earlier postings, flutter may not be the only reason the Vne is what it is. If you intend to keep the plane within its design envelope, why add the weight when you don't need it? Let's start with static stability and balance. While static stability is not necessarily an indicator of dynamic stability it can usually be assumed that if it is not statically stable it won't be dynamically stable either. Statically speaking, it is not the balance relative to the hinge that is of primary concern but the center of gravity (CG) of the surface relative to its aerodynamic center of pressure (CP). The CG relative to the hinge line can become more important once the flutter starts but static stability is a better indicator of whether it will start or not. The surface is statically stable about its CG if the CG is forward of the CP. The more forward the CG the more stable it is. From this point of view it would be good to have the CG forward of the hinge but there are other factors to consider. The fact that one aileron is balanced by the other really doesn't affect this. I don't know where the CP on the aileron is but usually it is probably on the forward half, maybe very close to the leading edge. Also, we know that it is behind the hinge on RV's because the controls would be unstable otherwise. (I say "on RV's because it is possible to design a control surface with a center of pressure forward of the hinge line. Not usually a good idea.) It is likely to vary with the angle of attack of the wing and the aileron itself. So, given this much information, a 100% balanced aileron will insure that the CG is in front of the center of pressure but 100% balance is not necessarily required to achieve this. So why are the elevators 100% balanced? I don't know the whole answer but in looking at them, one possible reason jumps out. The tips extend far forward of the hinge line. The CP of this portion of the surface is well forward of the hinge line, bringing the CP of the whole surface forward. This is usually done intentionally to reduce stick forces but the result may be a need for more counter weight. On to dynamics. Static instability of the surface itself is not necessarily enough to produce flutter because the hinge will apply stabilizing forces. The problem with static instability is that it significantly increases the hinge forces required to keep it stable. If the supporting structure is stiff enough to support these loads without significant flexing then counterbalancing may not be required. There are a lot of RV's out there with unbalanced rudders and I'm not sure but I don't think the -3 elevators are balanced. Flutter becomes a problem when an "aerodynamic natural frequency" gets close to a structural natural frequency. For example, an aileron and its control linkage have a natural frequency determined by the elastic properties (ie. spring rate) of the control linkage and the inertia of the aileron. The stiffer the spring and the lower the inertia the higher the natural frequency. The AERODYNAMIC natural frequency is determined by the inertia and the rate of increase of aerodynamic force with aileron displacement. In this case the aerodynamic forces are acting like a spring which tries to keep the aileron centered. Obviously the aerodynamic forces increase with speed. Since the inertia remains constant, the aerodynamic natural frequency increases with speed. At some point, the aerodynamic natural frequency may approach the natural frequency of the control linkage and aileron. This is when flutter is likely to occur. It can happen to any elasticly constrainted flight surface. Therefore it is desireable to keep all of the structural natural frequencies higher than their respective aerodynamic frequencies will ever be within the design flight envelope. This is done by increasing the spring rate or the stiffeness of the system. Decreasing the mass will help too but then the aerodynamic frequency may increase as well and the object here is to keep the aerodynamic natural frequency lower than the structural natural frequencies. Something to consider is that when the natural frequencies start to approach each other, some disturbance is required to start the flutter. By the time you experience this disturbance you could be well above the flutter speed and the time it takes to slow down after flutter starts might be too long. If there is play in the controls then the spring rate of the system is near zero and the natural frequency is very low so flutter is likely at much lower speeds. Part of the difficulty in determing when flutter will occur is the fact that there are so many modes of vibration present that it is extremely difficult to determine what all of the natural frequencies are. An isolated control surface, assumed to be rigid is a very simple case, add the various modes of flexing in the wing, the aileron itself, the controls etc., the problem becomes difficult. Add to this the fact that the airflow is affected by the oscillating surfaces and the problem becomes very difficult. Analysis of unsteady airflow is still a cutting edge technology. All of this discussion assumes that the airflow is steady before the fluttering starts. Flutter can also be induced by unsteady oscillating flow conditions. You may have felt this when driving behind a trailer truck, the car gets pushed side to side in the unsteady wake of the truck. It can be much higher frequency than that. I have unsteady flow coming off the windshield of my motorcycle. If I put my head in just the right spot it sounds and feels like someone is doing a drum roll on my helmet. Unsteady flow also has a frequency which varies with speed and when it matches a structural natural frequency..... I suspect however, that the flow over an intact, properly constructed RV is steady with the possible exception of the prop wake or if the wing is stalling, so this is probably not much of a concern for us. Unsteady flow can be a significant concern for transonic aircraft because shock waves have a tendency to be unstable in this flight regime. Obviously(?) this shouldn't be a problem for us. I have heard of shock waves forming on some aerodynamic bodies at speeds as low a Mach 0.5 or about 330 kts true, so its not that far from being worth our consideration. Some additional comments on balancing. Once a surface starts fluttering it can induce flutter in adjacent surfaces in the same way an unbalanced tire starts the car shaking. One advantage to balancing the control surface at the hinge line is that it will minimize the forces translated into the wing. Keep in mind however that it is impossible to balance it at the hinge line because the hinge is at the bottom of the surface. The CG must therefore always be above it. In the case of an unbalanced rotating body, what matters is how much mass and the CG's absolute distance from the center of rotation, not the direction from the CG to the center or rotation. Although I think it is unlikely in this case, adding weight could make this part of the problem worse by increasing the mass without proportionally moving the CG closer to the hinge line. For a good mental picture of the flutter problem, think of a car pulling a trailer. The hitch is like the aileron hinge, the trailer wheels are the center of pressure. What happens if something pushes the trailer sideways a little as you are driving down the highway? The wheels skid sideways a little and produce a force sideways on the trailer similar to the aerodynamic force on the aileron trying to return it to center. As the trailer returns to center it may overshoot a little and fish tail a couple of times before it settles down (damps out). The rate at which it fish tails is analagous to its aerodynamic natural frequency. If the trailer is loaded such that the center of gravity is forward of the wheels then it is "aerodynamically stable". You could probably unhitch it and it would travel a relatively straight line down the road. I have seen a semi trailer do this when it detached from the tracter on the highway. Really. It didn't even change lanes! In this situation very little side force is required by the hitch to keep the trailer tracking straight. If, on the other, the trailer is loaded with the center of gravity aft of the wheels, and you unhitch it at 60 mph it will likely execute a ground loop. This situation requires the hitch to react large side forces to keep the trailer tracking straight. A friend of mine was too lazy to reload a U-HAUL full of furniture when it turned out that the center of gravity was behind the wheels. When I, I mean he, reached about 60 mph the natural frequency of the trailer matched a natural frequency in the car's or the trailer's suspension and the result was fish tailing to the point of the back wheels of the car skidding sideways. His "wing" was "fluttering". In this case we know where the "CP" so it is easy to ensure that the CG is in front of it. Note that the CG does not have to be at the hitch to prevent trailer flutter. If you are considering adding weight to balance the ailerons, try this first. I have not done it. Figure out where the CG of the aileron is relative to the hinge line. I suspect it is very close, even if it is not balanced. If it is very close to the hinge line then it is most likely in front of the CP. I'm afraid I can't tell you how close is close enough but the plane has been tested. Where it is is close enough for below Vne. Consider also that the thicker skin of the -8 aileron will increase the stiffeness and natural frequency of the flexing and twisting mode in the aileron itself. I don't know if the -8 wings are stiffer than the others or not but if they are lighter, they may be MORE resistant to flutter originating in the aileron. Greg Lombard - RV-8 drilling ribs to spars glombard(at)empire.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim strip
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Listers, I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip in the rear window. I tried it tonight and found out it's gonna be a mess and time consuming for one person to do. I also figure it's a great way for a one person operation to cause a crack in the canopy. Have any of you used some sort of washer, etc instead of the strip? The only problem I see with this is that one can see the sealer; but, if one puts enough sealer on the plexi, that should spread uniformly under the plexi and still look pretty good. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Stopped until I get an answer) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Rare earth magnets
I would at least expect yoy to have compass problems! In a tube and fabric airplane, even the steel tubing causes problems. RVer273sb ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Mike Brogley <mikeb(at)lsil.com>
Subject: Re: is this true?
Yeah right. "Conicidentally, Van's announced a $20,000 price increase for the finishing kit on all models." -- Mike Brogley RV-8 sn80241 San Jose, CA USA mikeb(at)lsil.com > Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 08:33:50 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> > Subject: Re: RV-List: is this true? > > > I think they should make this retroactive to all RV buyers in within the > last 25 years, so we can all have free Lycomings! > > > > Paul > > > > >> > >>*snip* > >>>And Van is giving away Lycoming engines for free to the next 500 kit > >>>purchasers. > >> *snip* > >> > >>cheers > >>Todd > > > > Of course it is Todd. Van is just that way! > >Have a good one! > >Denny - RV-6 finishing > >harje(at)proaxis.com > >Lebanon, OR > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: GLOMBARD <gLombard(at)empire.net>
Subject: Re: Rare earth magnets
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com wrote: > > > I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium > magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of > debris that always float around the engine in the oil. > can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal? > I'm not sure if these are the same as I was recently shown at work but it sounds like they might be. The ones we were using at work would shatter to dust with a light tap of a hammer or if dropped on a hard surface. It was causing assembly problems in the shop. They were able to press fit them with an arbor press though. Also, iron magnets tend to loose their power if they are heated as can happen with grinding or machining. I don't know if these would. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Rare earth magnets
Date: Jun 15, 1998
-----Original Message----- From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 5:00 PM Subject: RV-List: Rare earth magnets > >I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium >magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of >debris that always float around the engine in the oil. > >I've got a couple of (perhaps dumb) questions for anyone who has had >experience with these. > >1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on >the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words >can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal? Grinding is likely to ruin the magnetic properties as you will heat the metal too much (beyond the Curie teperature). Cabide mill cutter probably ok but I would not recommend it. > >2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little >buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass >(about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away? Mags don't mind a magnetic field but the magnet's field at 2 1/2 inches will be hundreds of times stronger than the earth's field -- BIG PROBLEM! > Dennis Persyk 6A canopy Barrington, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim strip
Jim Sears wrote: > I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip in > the rear window. Jim - I am at that point with mine too and am doing it by myself without any difficulty. I used three strips per side. The only grief I gave my self was to drill the holes in the strips to the fuselage skin instead of the plexi-glass.(The thickness of the plexi-glass changes the hole to hole distances). You will need to drill one hole in the strip and then coleco the strip to the inside of the plex-glass. Side clamp the strip the the window and drill through the window holes to locate the holes on the strip. A bit of masking tape on the side clamp jaws will save the window from scratches. I used the fuselage skin to mark the edge shape and then used the hole marking in the strip to find the final with of the strip. The strip ended up about 5/8" wide. I 'stacked' the strips where they join at the end rivets so as to be shingled from front to rear. The end result looks great. Now I just need the patience to clean and paint the interior before permanently installing the rear window. Hope this helps. DGM - RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Rare earth magnets
> >I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium >magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of >debris that always float around the engine in the oil. > >I've got a couple of (perhaps dumb) questions for anyone who has had >experience with these. > >1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on >the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words >can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal? these are VERY brittle . . . they can be ground but it's not a pretty sight. Suggest you use them as is . . . They do grip the outside of the oil filter very tightly and are not likely to move around much. >2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little >buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass >(about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away? Put a ring of magnets around the filter . . . takes 11 or 12 of the ones I used to stock. Stick them on in opposite polarities as they progress around the periphery of the filter. Then strap around the outside with a strip of roof flashing . . . about an inch wide and long enough to go around about 3 times. Hold the whole thing in place with a big hose clamp. The opposing polarities combined with the field conduction effects of the outter ring will prevent problems with compass. The amount of "stuff" you'll find stuck to the inside of the filter is significant. What this means in terms of engine life . . . dunno, but it sure can't hurt. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= <http://www.aeroelectric.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Willemssen" <cwillems(at)isd.net>
Subject: RVList server failure?
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Sorry for this inconvenient message--but I have gotten no list action lately, and can not log into Matronics.com. Does anyone know what the deal is? Please e-mail me off-list (cwillems(at)isd.com) and give me the scoop. Thanks Does ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Bristol" <bbristol(at)intranet.ca>
Subject: Re: Rudder Cable Attach
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Paul, On my RV6A the attach brackets are just under 2 inches long. Bob bbristol(at)intranet.ca -----Original Message----- From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 10:37 AM Subject: RV-List: Rudder Cable Attach > >I have run my cables for the rudder, and after connecting to the horn, the >distance between the rudder pedals and the cables is about 6". Should the >splice plates be this long? It seems like they should be more like 1 >1/2-2" long... > > >Paul Besing >RV-6A (197AB) Arizona >Mounting empennage > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Light Speed Engineering "Magneto"
The unit is a CDI,(capacitance discharge ignition) system, not a mag. I installed one in my 6A during construction. Advantages: 1) Increased reliability, (mags WILL fail eventually) 2) better fuel economy 2) Senses manifold pressure and advances timing as you climb to higher altitudes; l eliminates detonation. 3) much more powerful spark, easy starting I've only got 32 hours on mine, but so far it has worked great. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Death of N929JC
So very sorry to hear the bad news; must be tough going. Mine is 75 miles away at the paint shop right now and I am nervous as hell. (So Cal earthquakes, fires, mud slides etc). Best of luck to you in our new project. Walt. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au>
Subject: large pilot needs advice
Hi All, Sorry to bother you all with a question that has probably been asked half a hundred times before but i think it's a kind of important thing for me to ask. I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems? I have read through the archives and seen a few people ask similar questions and the standard reply was you can lower the height of the seat when your building. This however isnt an option for me as i live in Australia and kit planes must be built *exactly* to the specs in the kit with no deviations at all. (there are ways around this, but dealing with C.A.S.A and getting aprovals is like shi#*@ing gravel through a funnel) Basically i need to know that i will fit into the beast and remain comfortable when i'm up in the air. Secondly, are there any builders in far Northern New South wales on the list that I could get in touch with to talk to? cheers Todd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Rudder & Elevator leading edges
Empennage builders, Someone posted a problem about getting the seams of the rud & elev leading edges to lay flat after they are bent & riveted. I always appreciate other builder's helpful hints, so I thought I would pass on something I tried that made the skins lay down nicely. 1. Use the edge tool to put the slight bend on the edge of the skin before you start bending with the pipe(just easier to do it now before it's bent). 2. I found it easier to bend one section at a time with a short 3/4" pipe than trying to do all three sections at one time. Just get the skins rounded over and then do the final molding by hand. 3. When the skins are curved about how you want them, take a 3/8" wooden dowel and hold it at the edge that was bent with the edge tool. Squeezing it between your fingers and thumb, curl the edge a little more around the dowel. This makes the edge bend down a little more and rounds it so that it really fits the curve of the skin. Cleco together and check to see how the edges are laying down. If you're not satisfied, un-cleco and bend some more until it meets you liking. I didn't use the 3/8" dowel on the rudder and I can tell the difference in fit. The elevators look a lot nicer. Hope this helps. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Mark Graf <markgraf(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim strip
Jim Sears wrote: > > I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip in > the rear window. Have any > of you used some sort of washer, etc instead of the strip? The only > problem I see with this is that one can see the sealer; but, if one puts > enough sealer on the plexi, that should spread uniformly under the plexi > and still look pretty good. > We did not use a trim strip on our tip up. We used counter sunk washers with flush machine screws that ARE NOT TIGHT. The plex is over a thin weather strip material. It does not leak (we haven't been in any raging torrents) and I think it looks better than a trim strip. You have to polish out the edge of the plex to prevent cuts when opening and closing. Get her done, you are going to love this airplane! Mark Graf N71CG RV-6 150 hp Denver CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JamesCone(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Death of N929JC
Listers, I am deeply touched by all of the expressions of sympathy for my loss. What a great group of people build these incredible machines. I plan to buy a quickbuild and if the insurance company doesn't want too much for the salvage, use some of the parts to speed the building process. AVEMCO looked at the wreck today and said that it would be about two weeks before they know what the salvage value is. I plan to order my kit tomorrow and get started. My "Ti-downs" survived unscathed because they were in a locker in my hangar. Just think, now they can advertise that they can stand up to a tornado . Thanks again for your kind words. I'll be at Oshkosh and working as a volunteer at Van's tent. Hope to see you there. Jim Cone ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 15, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Rare earth magnets
>I found an electronics surplus catalog which sells rare earth Neodymium >magnets which I would use on the oil filter to collect small bits of >debris that always float around the engine in the oil. >1] The catalogs lists magnets in odd shapes that may not fit neatly on >the filter (in 2-3 places). Is Neodymium easily workable? In other words >can I grind it and cut it into proper sized shapes as any other metal? >2] The catalog is full of warning notices of how powerful these little >buggers are. Should I expect any interference with the compass >(about 2 1/2' away), or worse yet with the mags, just inches away? >Andy Andy, I put four of these rare earth magnets, obtained from TBO Advisor, on my oil filter. Surprisingly, there was no effect on the compass nor have I had any mag/electronic ignition problems. The TBO magnets were uniformly rectangular so I don't know how the odd shaped magnets would work. The four magnets do need to be mounted with opposite poles, every other magnet. For what it's worth, I think I saw a similar set up for a lot less money advertised in a J.C. Whitney catalog. Maybe they aren't the same, powerful magnets. The ones purchased from TBO do stick well. I do tape mine on with electrical tape, although it was stated that this wasn't necessary. I believe that they now include a strap that holds the magnets onto the filter. I think they now recommend two bands of four magnets each. They're not cheap but they never wear out and they do pick up ferrous material. Maybe this debris is too small to inflict any damage on an engine, I don't know. Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 1998
Subject: Re: Paranoid control horn question
<< I have > both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with > the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control > horns are not lined up. >> I marked how much twist I needed to get one to line up with the other and then cut the tube. I undersleeved it inside with .058 wall 4130 tube, drilled jigging holes (for temporary drill blanks) to hold it in the new (correct) position. I then took it apart and drilled about four 3/8" holes on the control horn tubes (2 places) staggered. Then I put it back together and had a good TIG welder rosette weld the whole affair with a bead around the butted tube ends. Grind to smooth and voila, they lined up perfectly. I think Van's should make one of the horns adjustable. This is such a common problem. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 1998
Subject: Another RV Lost
I am reporting the sad news that we have lost another RV-4 in the Sedona Az. area. Apparently, it collided with Cathedral Rock. The news story was not clear nor do I know anything further on this regrettable situation that would not be speculation. While this is not much consolation to our friends and their families who we have lost--at least they were doing what they loved. I guess as Homebuilts make up an ever larger fraction of the General Aviation fleet we can only surmise there will be more such badnews to be delt with by the Homebuilt fraternity. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Matronics Plagued w/ Power Outages...
Listers, We have had no less than *3* power outages here tonight! On the third time, the Matronics web server didn't come back too happy and is reporting disk errors. I'm looking at that right now and hope to have it back online in an hour or so... Longer if I have to do any rebuilding or restoring... (ack, UNIX just really hates power-off shutdowns...) The Matronics *mail* server machine is back up now, running fine, and it is forwarding mail. Sorry for the problems tonight... Matt Dralle RV and Zenith List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 510-606-1001)
Date: Jun 15, 1998
Subject: Matronics Web Server Back Online...
The Matronics Web Server is back online! No major problems. Matt Dralle RV and Zenith List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darrell Anderson" <d.l.anderson(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Paranoid control horn question . . .may not be paranoia
Date: Jun 16, 1998
> << I have > > both elevators lined up so that the counterbalances are both flush with > > the HS tips. When in this configuration, I notice that the control > > horns are not lined up. >> > I had the same problem on my RV-4 elevator horns, but noticed it **before** constructing the elevators. The horns, as welded, did not match the drawings, as the horns were 6 degrees off (in different directions, left and right). After a lot of tinkering, I found that the problem was in the bending of the v-shaped pieces that are riveted to the elevator spar and the inboard rib. The pieces had not been bent exactly across the middle, so that lining it up on the centerline of the inboard rib caused the horn to "lead" on one side and "lag" on the other. A call to Van's got: "Well, you can send them in so we can look at them, but there's only about 2000 that have been built on the same jig with no problem...." etc., etc. I know this is a little late for those finding the problem after the horns are mounted and the elevators are complete, but it may be a heads-up for those ready to start. Clamp the horns together the way they will appear on the aircraft, and see if the spar attachment surfaces are in the same vertical plane and alignment. Likewise, check the root rib attachment surfaces by laying the clamped-up pair of horns on a flat surface...they should both evenly contact the surface. This is how I noticed mine were off. By carefully matching the parts I had to the drawings to determine what was intended, I mounted the horn brackets 6 degrees OFF the centerline of the root ribs, 6 high on one side, 6 low on the other. Now the horns matched each other exactly when the elevator halves were leveled! Some will say, "So what, just fair the elevators and drill the hole for the rod-end". Yes, this is cosmetic as long as the "split" horns don't hit one or both of the stops too early (or hit the spar), limiting the elevator throw. Hmmm...will ONE horn hitting a stop cause twisting of the pushrod cross-bolt as it tries to stop the other elevator half? Seems to me you'd want both horn halves to contact the stops simultaneously. Darrell Anderson RV-4 Wings yet to be closed Montana ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Subject: Paranoid control horn question . . .may not be
paranoia A > A call to Van's got: "Well, you can send them in so we can look at them, but there's only about 2000 that have been built on the same jig with no problem...." etc., etc. > I have built two airplanes, both flying, and had the same problem with the horns on them. I think that Van should get a new jig for welding the elevator horns. No disrespect intended here. On both planes I had to make stops that were different for both sides of the elevators for and aft. This is not difficult but annoying. Tom Martin HRII 26hours, flight restrictions removed yesterday!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Flutter mechanics
Good information Greg. I just printed your post to compare it to an article I have been re-re-reading written for the EAA Experimenter dealing with aft CG. The article is trying to explain the engineering of an airplane and what to expect from it. Kind of a home study course for me to try to understand what I have been flying and trusting these last 50 years. It is never too late....Thanks! Have a good one! Denny - RV-6 finishing harje(at)proaxis.com Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-6A tip up canopy rear window trim stri
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> >I'm trying to figure out a way to get around putting the entire trim strip >in >the rear window. I tried it tonight and found out it's gonna be a mess >and time consuming for one person to do. I also figure it's a great way >for a one person operation to cause a crack in the canopy. Have any >of you used some sort of washer, etc instead of the strip? I used aluminum pop-rivet washers from the hardware store instead of the strip. Otherwise went by the instructions. It seemed to me that the washers would distribute the clamping pressure better than the thin aluminum strip and I think it looks a little better. It seems to have come out ok. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6Q N441LP Reserved Getting ready to mount wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: large pilot needs advice
Date: Jun 16, 1998
Todd, I am 6' 5" and I am building a RV - 6, so I have investigated this issue. I have flown a number of times in two 6A's that are based at my home airport in South Carolina (KCUB). I don't think that head room is a problem for you. You can adjust the thickness of the seat cushions and shim the canopy if necessary. Leg room is also OK. The plans allow for adjusting the rudder pedals forward if needed. The hanging pedals allow you to slide your feet under them in flight. Very comfortable! The shoulder room may be a problem. This is my biggest concern. The only way to increase shoulder room is to "notch" out the rails of the sliding canopy (Werner Berry's idea). This can add maybe 11/2". I am just now skinning my fuselage and have modified the seat ribs and the seat back brace (F-605). I hope this helps. Ken Harrill RV - 6, fuselage Hi All, Sorry to bother you all with a question that has probably been asked half a hundred times before but i think it's a kind of important thing for me to ask. I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems? I have read through the archives and seen a few people ask similar questions and the standard reply was you can lower the height of the seat when your building. This however isnt an option for me as i live in Australia and kit planes must be built *exactly* to the specs in the kit with no deviations at all. (there are ways around this, but dealing with C.A.S.A and getting aprovals is like shi#*@ing gravel through a funnel) Basically i need to know that i will fit into the beast and remain comfortable when i'm up in the air. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com>
Subject: LAKE TAHOE AIR FEST
Lake Tahoe Air Fest Saturday August 22 1998 Fly into beautiful Lake Tahoe and show your RV. We currently have 3 RV's signed up for static display and I would like to see a lot more. Fly in any time Friday or before 9AM Saturday 6264 ft. elevation, 8544 ft.long x 150 ft. wide runway. Contact me off line or phone (530)542-3945 and I will snail mail an Info pack. Wayne Bonesteel RV-4 fuselage out of fixture. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: UFOBUCK(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 1998
Subject: Archives
Landoll ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder & Elevator leading edges
Great post, Jerry...I wish I would have read this two weeks ago when I closed my rudder! I did roll the edges, but was not entirely satisfied, so I actually blended the edge with the curve using body filler. Sanded smooth, put some glaze putty on it, and primed it...now it looks like a fiberglass leading edge. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB)Arizona Mounting empennage > >Empennage builders, > >Someone posted a problem about getting the seams of the rud & elev >leading edges to lay flat after they are bent & riveted. I always >appreciate other builder's helpful hints, so I thought I would pass on >something I tried that made the skins lay down nicely. > >1. Use the edge tool to put the slight bend on the edge of the skin >before you start bending with the pipe(just easier to do it now >before it's bent). >2. I found it easier to bend one section at a time with a short 3/4" >pipe than trying to do all three sections at one time. Just get >the skins rounded over and then do the final molding by hand. >3. When the skins are curved about how you want them, take a 3/8" >wooden dowel and hold it at the edge that was bent with the edge >tool. Squeezing it between your fingers and thumb, curl the edge a >little more around the dowel. This makes the edge bend down a little >more and rounds it so that it really fits the curve of the skin. > >Cleco together and check to see how the edges are laying down. If >you're not satisfied, un-cleco and bend some more until it meets you >liking. I didn't use the 3/8" dowel on the rudder and I can tell the >difference in fit. The elevators look a lot nicer. > >Hope this helps. >Jerry Calvert >Edmond Ok -6a Wings > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirkpatrick, Pat W" <pat.w.kirkpatrick(at)intel.com>
Subject: Drilling main landing gear on 6A
Date: Jun 16, 1998
Greetings, I am in the process of drilling the main gear mounts on my 6A. All of the holes in the spar are drilled 3/16 where the gear attaches. The plans call for 1/4" in a few of the locations. 1. My question or concern is do you just drill the holes out to 1/4"?? 2. Any problems with stresses around the holes on all of the laminated peices of the spar which can't be deburred? I am also concerned about the proximity of some of the hole to the welds on the gear mount. The holes are right at the edge of the weld and going to 1/4" would start to cut into the weld. 3. How do you get a washer on the bolt on this situation? 4. Is it ok to grind that area of the weld flat? 5. What about heat buildup from the grinding and stesses that are created in the steel? Thanks in advance for the help. Pat Kirkpatrick RV-6A Rio Rancho NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moentenich, Brian L NWP" <Brian.L.Moentenich(at)nwp01.usace.army.mil>
Subject: Drilling main landing gear on 6A
Date: Jun 16, 1998
1. Use a 12" 1/4" bit if possible. It works best if you can fashion a guide to align the bit to the hole before starting. Unless guided, a reamer can end up over-sizing the hole. 2. Since the spar strips are riveted together, there will not be any burrs on the inner pieces - only on the outside which can be deburred. I did not have pre-punched wings and the spar hole layout may be different for PP spars. I was concerned about where the holes would come through the mount - but none were so close to a weld which would require grinding a flat area (maybe I was lucky). 3. The washer should be flat on the part. The nut/bolt head can be close to a rib where it will not turn. 4. You should grind only as much weld as is necessary. The washer can be cut on one side to minimize this. If you are uncomfortable with the amount of weld removed, take the mount to a shop and have reinforcing welds installed on either side of these areas. 5. Do not worry about heat/stress from grinding. The entire part has been thermally stress relieved after welding and you will not put much heat into it anyway. -----Original Message----- From: Kirkpatrick, Pat W [SMTP:pat.w.kirkpatrick(at)intel.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 10:00 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Drilling main landing gear on 6A Greetings, I am in the process of drilling the main gear mounts on my 6A. All of the holes in the spar are drilled 3/16 where the gear attaches. The plans call for 1/4" in a few of the locations. 1. My question or concern is do you just drill the holes out to 1/4"?? 2. Any problems with stresses around the holes on all of the laminated peices of the spar which can't be deburred? I am also concerned about the proximity of some of the hole to the welds on the gear mount. The holes are right at the edge of the weld and going to 1/4" would start to cut into the weld. 3. How do you get a washer on the bolt on this situation? 4. Is it ok to grind that area of the weld flat? 5. What about heat buildup from the grinding and stesses that are created in the steel? Thanks in advance for the help. Pat Kirkpatrick RV-6A Rio Rancho NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com>
Subject: Rudder & Elevator leading edges
Date: Jun 16, 1998
A recommendation I have on the rudder is to drill and cleco in the top cap. Using a dremmel tool I gingerly cut away at the cap until it fit very well with the rudder skin. I noticed that I had to move one of my prepunched holes in order to get the cap to fit just oh so right on the skin. Sure, sure you can't really move a prepunched hole, but you can drill in another place and skip the prepunch. Regards, Gary Fesenbek RV6A Roanoke, VA > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Besing [SMTP:rv8er(at)doitnow.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 1998 4:58 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder & Elevator leading edges > > > Great post, Jerry...I wish I would have read this two weeks ago when I > closed my rudder! I did roll the edges, but was not entirely > satisfied, so > I actually blended the edge with the curve using body filler. Sanded > smooth, put some glaze putty on it, and primed it...now it looks like > a > fiberglass leading edge. > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB)Arizona > Mounting empennage > > > > > >Empennage builders, > > > >Someone posted a problem about getting the seams of the rud & elev > >leading edges to lay flat after they are bent & riveted. I always > >appreciate other builder's helpful hints, so I thought I would pass > on > >something I tried that made the skins lay down nicely. > > > >1. Use the edge tool to put the slight bend on the edge of the skin > >before you start bending with the pipe(just easier to do it now > >before it's bent). > >2. I found it easier to bend one section at a time with a short 3/4" > >pipe than trying to do all three sections at one time. Just get > >the skins rounded over and then do the final molding by hand. > >3. When the skins are curved about how you want them, take a 3/8" > >wooden dowel and hold it at the edge that was bent with the edge > >tool. Squeezing it between your fingers and thumb, curl the edge > a > >little more around the dowel. This makes the edge bend down a > little > >more and rounds it so that it really fits the curve of the skin. > > > >Cleco together and check to see how the edges are laying down. If > >you're not satisfied, un-cleco and bend some more until it meets you > >liking. I didn't use the 3/8" dowel on the rudder and I can tell the > >difference in fit. The elevators look a lot nicer. > > > >Hope this helps. > >Jerry Calvert > >Edmond Ok -6a Wings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: large pilot needs advice
>I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of >building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the >thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems? >Todd Todd, I'm 6' 3", weigh 215 lbs. and measure 53" around chest/arms. I have about 4" of foam in my RV-6 seats and still have room for headsets (unless it's really, really bumpy.) I have manual flaps and a tip up canopy. You may want to consider electric flaps. With two guys my size in the airplane, it requires a little wiggling to get full flaps pulled on. Otherwise, no problem. Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: large pilot needs advice
Date: Jun 16, 1998
> >I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of > >building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the > >thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems? > >Todd I am 6'4" (mostly torso), 220 lbs, and in the process of installing the slider canopy. Sitting on a couple of 2x4's to simulate a compressed seat cushion, and wearing a headset, I just touch the bubble (I have incorporated the increased canopy height modification per Van's manual). For footroom (size 13's) and legroom, I have moved the rudders pedals forward and up 1.5" from the plans location. This allows enough legroom for rudder pedal operation, and to slip my feet underneath during cruise. The tops of the brake pedals are slanted forward one inch, allowing rudder operation without applying brakes. I will also incorporate the shoulder reliefs that Werner Barry has on his 6A, since my shoulder hits the top canopy deck. In case anyone else here flies with a partner that is much shorter, I fabricated a pair of RudderReachers (tm ) for my 5'4" fiancee. Basically a duplicate set of brake pedal plates, set on three standoffs which easily bolt/unbolt to the standard brake pedals. This positions them 3" closer and lower. Don't know how or if the braking action will work out yet until the RV flies, but at least she has full rudder control. Rob (RV-6Q, Socal). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Shawn Grubb <sgrubb(at)bankofhydro.com>
Subject: RV's At Aerospace America In OKC??
Does anyone know if any RV's are going to be on display at the Aerospace America airshow in Oklahoma City this weekend?? I am most interested to talk to any RV builders who will be attending the show. Shawn Grubb Waiting On Preview Plans ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: large pilot needs advice
Date: Jun 16, 1998
>For footroom (size 13's) and legroom, I have moved the rudders pedals >forward and up 1.5" from the plans location. Rob: I have my .062 longerons in & not drilled for the rudders. I can see how you can move them longitudual but did you just block them up or did you move the stiffener up 1.5 inches for the height? Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: large pilot needs advice
Date: Jun 16, 1998
> > Rob: > I have my .062 longerons in & not drilled for the rudders. I can see how > you can move them longitudual but did you just block them up or did you > move the stiffener up 1.5 inches for the height? Don, I used 3/4"x1.5" 4130 steel tubing to raise the UHMW rudder bar blocks. Rob (RV-6Q, Socal). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice
Hi all, Rob Acker said: "The tops of the brake pedals are slanted forward one inch, allowing rudder operation without applying brakes." This is timely comment for me, as I'm going to drill my pedels tonight. I have the "overhead" pedels set up on the bench suppended by a couple of 1 gal paint cans (knew those primer cans would come in handy for something;)). If I drill the brake pedel/master cylinders to print, with the rudder bars aligned, the brake pedels will be pretty close to vertical at there relaxed position. As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back towards the pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your foot would start applying an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't think this is a good thing for taildraggers :) The only way I see to avoid this is to angle the brake pedels forward (like Rob said) while the rudders are neutral. So....I have two questions: 1. How much brake pedel movement is there, after the brakes are bled, to command full brake? 2. Has anyone who is flying done what I've described, and how much did you angle them forward? Was it too much, or too little, or just right? TIA, Laird Owens (SoCal) RV-6 22923 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WoodardRod(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 1998
Subject: Re: large pilot needs advice
Todd: Bob is very polite for not mentioning it, but I've got to be one of the larger passengers he's ever carried. I'm 5'10" and weigh [more than he does :-) ] Bob gave me a ride to and from the Longmont, CO fly-in about a year ago and we didn't have much problem at all. Happy building. Rod Woodard Loveland, Colorado In a message dated 6/16/98 12:48:54 PM Mountain Daylight Time, bskinr(at)trib.com writes: > > >I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of > >building an RV-6A, the thing that is concerning me is will i fit into the > >thing and be able to close the canopy without any problems? > >Todd > > Todd, > I'm 6' 3", weigh 215 lbs. and measure 53" around chest/arms. I have about > 4" of foam in my RV-6 seats and still have room for headsets (unless it's > really, really bumpy.) > I have manual flaps and a tip up canopy. You may want to consider > electric flaps. With two guys my size in the airplane, it requires a little > wiggling to get full flaps pulled on. Otherwise, no problem. > > Bob Skinner RV-6 415 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: RV's At Aerospace America In OKC??
Shawn Grubb wrote: > > > Does anyone know if any RV's are going to be on display at the Aerospace > America airshow in Oklahoma City this weekend?? > > I am most interested to talk to any RV builders who will be attending the > show. > > Shawn Grubb > Waiting On Preview Plans > Shawn Grubb wrote: > > > Does anyone know if any RV's are going to be on display at the Aerospace > America airshow in Oklahoma City this weekend?? > > I am most interested to talk to any RV builders who will be attending the > show. > > Shawn Grubb > Waiting On Preview Plans Hi Shawn, I,m hoping there will be some there also, but I don't think there will be. It disapoints me at the lack of EAA enthusiasm at one of the greatest airshows going! If you ever get to Edmond, you are welcome to look over my -6a project. Just started on wings. Enid has a nice following and their EAA prez has a -6. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a (405)341-8129 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrownTool(at)aol.com
Date: Jun 16, 1998
Subject: Air Tool Sale - SIOUX Air Drill
We are currently running our SIOUX Model 1450HP (1/4" Chuck) and 1454HP (3/8" Chuck) Air Drills at the super blow-out price of $135.00 ! These sell in our 1998 catalog for $169.95 but now thru July 15th they are available for only $135.00 !!! These are Industrial quality drills, and of course they are MADE IN THE USA. A picture of this drill is available at our website under the "SPECIALS" heading at: http://www.browntool.com While you are there, please visit our "NEW PRODUCTS" section for the latest additions to our product line including: "the trey" fastener organizer and our new hand-held hydraulic riveter for installing Cherrymax Rivets, Pop Rivets, Nut-Plate Rivets, and Riv-Nuts. Thanks for your time, this message will not be re-posted. Michael Brown Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. 5700 N. Rockwell, Building Two, Suite E Bethany,OK 73008 1-800-587-3883 405-495-4991 FAX 405-495-4992 BrownTool(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: large pilot needs advice
> I used 3/4"x1.5" 4130 steel tubing to raise the UHMW rudder bar blocks. I hadn't thought of that. An extra chunk of UHMW works too. Of course you need longer bolts as well. One thing to watch out for here is that the NACA ducts will likely be directly above these blocks. If you don't leave enough room you will never get the bolts in and out of the UHMW blocks from the top (and even if you can it will only be by inserting the bolts most of the way before getting the block in there). Of course you can always put the bolts in from the bottom but this goes against "standard practice" and also it may be harder to get them in and out depending on how oversize you make the holes in the UHMW. I blocked my pedals up by 1" which was plenty for my size 13s even with 3/4" thick insulation on the floor. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice
> As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back towards the pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your foot would start applying an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't think this is a good thing for taildraggers :) > 2. Has anyone who is flying done what I've described, and how much did you angle them forward? Was it too much, or too little, or just right? I am not flying yet, but when putting the brakes together on my 6A, I did modify a few things to slant the top of the brakes forward. If one swaps the left and right rudder pedal weldments, i.e., the one that was forward moves aft and vice-versa, one of the brake pedals will lean forward an appropriate amount. The other pedal will lean back way too far, and for this one I made a new pedal side plate with a much longer tab hanging down for brake cylinder attachment. Now both pedals slant forward the same amount. The same modifications could be made without swapping the rudder pedal weldments; however, both side plates would need to be modified, instead of only one. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice
According to the plans, the pedals are to be angled back towards the pilot's feet. That is where mine are...I think this is to allow one to engage the pedals without having to press so far forward past one's reach. I am concerned, though, about applying rudder pressure without inadvertantly riding the brakes while taxiing. Any flying RV's have any input? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona Mounting Empennage > >Hi all, > >Rob Acker said: > > > >"The tops of the brake pedals are slanted forward one inch, allowing rudder >operation without applying brakes." > >This is timely comment for me, as I'm going to drill my pedels tonight. I have the "overhead" pedels set up on the bench suppended by a couple of 1 gal paint cans (knew those primer cans would come in handy for something;)). If I drill the brake pedel/master cylinders to print, with the rudder bars aligned, the brake pedels will be pretty close to vertical at there relaxed position. > >As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back towards the pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your foot would start applying an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't think this is a good thing for taildraggers :) > >The only way I see to avoid this is to angle the brake pedels forward (like Rob said) while the rudders are neutral. > >So....I have two questions: > >1. How much brake pedel movement is there, after the brakes are bled, to command full brake? > >2. Has anyone who is flying done what I've described, and how much did you angle them forward? Was it too much, or too little, or just right? > >TIA, > >Laird Owens (SoCal) >RV-6 22923 > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice
> As I depress the rudder pedel, the brake pedel starts to angle back > towards the pilot. This sure looks like the natural angle of your > foot would start applying an uncommanded brake pressure. I don't > think this is a good thing for taildraggers :) A lot of people are adding a piece of heater hose or something similar to the bottom crosspiece of each rudder pedal to keep the toes a bit further away from the brake pedal. And did you notice in the most recent RVator that Van's is saying the "short spring" issue is actually a result of people over-compressing the brake cylinders with no fluid in the system? I guess we need to be careful about this. I haven't checked my springs yet but I'll bet I did this. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR randall(at)edt.com http://www.edt.com/homewing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil>
Subject: Re: Alternative engines/props
I saw a beautiful composite fixed pitch prop on an RV-4 at Bakersfield a week and a half ago. Unfortunately, I didnt get much info as the pilot was departing. He did say that the prop boosted cruise significantly without any negative effects on climb compared to the original prop (Pacesetter). I didnt get any numbers from him though. The prop was made by Lightspeed (the ignition guy) and was a solid hub prop, no individual blades, bolts, mounting lugs, etc.. The owner said its the smoothest prop he's ever flown behind. Anyone know anything more? Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.nosc.mil > >I heard that Ivoprop was the only composite prop manufacturer still putting >their prop on four cylinder four cycle engines. > >Jim Ayers >LesDrag(at)aol.com >Thousand Oaks, Ca. >RV-3 Maroon Marauder >N47RV LOM M332A engine Ivoprop Magnum High Pitch Electric VP prop > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: "Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice
To all, I really should use my spellchecker more often. I really do know how to spell "pedals". Sorry, and I hear the Spelling Police at my door now...gotta run! Laird From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Tue, Jun 16, 1998 5:23 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-6(A) Brake pedels (was) advice ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Insurancetypes="text/plain,text/html";
(snipped) Doug Rozendaal wrote: > >Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a > >policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible. > >Louis I. Willig > Scott Smith of SkySmith Intl. is an Insurance broker with a RV program, it > http://www.skysmith.com/ > is their website, tell him I sent you. > > Tailwinds, > Doug Rozendaal > dougr(at)petroblend.com I just got a quote from Mr. Smith, & I have both an observation and a request for information. How many of us Avemco policy holders are aware that the max Avemco will pay any PERSON (passenger or not) is the amount in the line A, "each person" box on your policy? Call me stupid if you will, but I had assumed that the "each accident" figure was your real protection. Not so, according to the Avemco rep I spoke to. If you hurt someone other that yourself, they are only liable for this MUCH lower figure. Now we all know that if the pilot has caused an injury, the lawsuit will be for much, much more than $50k -$100K. You had best believe that if the insurance co. believes that they will lose, they are going to pay the $50k & walk, leaving you to defend yourself. According to Mr. Smith, his policy says each PASSENGER, not each person, so you are at least protected if you hurt someone outside the aircraft, and that hull coverage is handled by figuring realistic shop repair costs, not a low labor figure like Avemco uses. He also told me that the underwriter is AIG, a very large international company. Now to my question. Have any of you had dealings with Skysmith, especially claims? I am very tempted to change, since the coverage sounds much better (I feel that I have almost no liability protection with Avemco), and the price is almost 20% lower. I hope the info about Avemco will help someone out there who, like me, thought they were the only game in town & didn't pay much attention to the policy when purchased. If someone has experience with Skysmith/AIG, I'd really like to hear about it. Charlie England RV-4 N4375J 601-879-9596 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Insurancetypes
I use Skysmith for my quickbuild policy. I had some difficulty in the beginning getting information, but this was in part my own fault as I had never insured an aircraft, and didn't quite understand that a quickbuild kit is simply an aircraft that is not flying. I am in a business that carries alot of liability, so I had my super anal retentive insurance broker check out the whole policy, and after driving Scott Smith nuts, he gave me the thumbs up. His rates are great too, much better then my insurance guy whom my family has done business with for 20+ years could do. -- Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe Charlie and Tupper England wrote: > > > (snipped) > Doug Rozendaal wrote: > > > >Are there any Aircraft Insurance brokers on the list that want to write a > > >policy on my RV-4? Respond privately, if possible. > > >Louis I. Willig > > Scott Smith of SkySmith Intl. is an Insurance broker with a RV program, it > > http://www.skysmith.com/ > > is their website, tell him I sent you. > > > > Tailwinds, > > Doug Rozendaal > > dougr(at)petroblend.com > > I just got a quote from Mr. Smith, & I have both an observation and a request for > information. > > How many of us Avemco policy holders are aware that the max Avemco will pay any > PERSON (passenger or not) is the amount in the line A, "each person" box on your > policy? Call me stupid if you will, but I had assumed that the "each accident" > figure was your real protection. Not so, according to the Avemco rep I spoke to. > If you hurt someone other that yourself, they are only liable for this MUCH lower > figure. > > Now we all know that if the pilot has caused an injury, the lawsuit will be for > much, much more than $50k -$100K. You had best believe that if the insurance co. > believes that they will lose, they are going to pay the $50k & walk, leaving you > to defend yourself. > > According to Mr. Smith, his policy says each PASSENGER, not each person, so you > are at least protected if you hurt someone outside the aircraft, and that hull > coverage is handled by figuring realistic shop repair costs, not a low labor > figure like Avemco uses. He also told me that the underwriter is AIG, a very > large international company. > > Now to my question. Have any of you had dealings with Skysmith, especially > claims? I am very tempted to change, since the coverage sounds much better (I feel > that I have almost no liability protection with Avemco), and the price is almost > 20% > lower. > > I hope the info about Avemco will help someone out there who, like me, thought > they were the only game in town & didn't pay much attention to the policy when > purchased. > > If someone has experience with Skysmith/AIG, I'd really like to hear about it. > > Charlie England > RV-4 N4375J > 601-879-9596 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: RV-6 Rudder pedals
Date: Jun 17, 1998
The rudder pedals mounting blocks seem to need to be mounted further forward for most pilots. The important thing is to drill the support angles to accept the mounts in more than one position in the first place, and SHORTEN the rudder pedal torque tubes to allow them to go towards the front of the fuselage. As the fuselage is tapered you can't shift the mounts forward later without taking the whole assembly out and shortening the tubes, no small task ! Remember to shorten the end which will increase the clearance between the rudder pedals as clearance can be a problem allready. Also when making the brake pedals, do not drill the bottom mounting holes in their 3/4 angles until you have fitted the brake cylinder in place and checked the position of the brake pedal in relation to the rudder pedals. This is your last chance to align them. If you are going to raise the pedals , the advantage of using the sqare tube suggested by Rob Acker is you can still use the standard bolts plus a couple of short ones. Good luck, Brian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net>
Subject: Re: large pilot needs advice
Date: Jun 16, 1998
> > > I used 3/4"x1.5" 4130 steel tubing to raise the UHMW rudder bar blocks. > > I hadn't thought of that. An extra chunk of UHMW works too. Of course > you need longer bolts as well. The tubing allowed me to use the standard UHMW blocks and bolts, with short bolts holding the tubing to the longeron. This way, should the aircraft ever be sold, its real easy to convert to standard pedal height. Also, I drilled multiple fore/aft holes to allow for adjustment. > One thing to watch out for here is that the NACA ducts will likely be > directly above these blocks VERY good point. Mount the pedals first, then locate the NACA ducts. > I blocked my pedals up by 1" which was plenty for my size 13s even > with 3/4" thick insulation on the floor. Hmmm....your ankles are more flexible than mine . With a bare floor and the pedals raised 1.5", I am BARELY able to slip my feet underneath (shoes on). Rob (RV-6Q, Socal). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Paranoid control horn question . . .may not be paranoia
<> If you're pushing or pulling hard enough on the stick in flight to bend that bolt, I'd say you're already in BIG TROUBLE..... Just my $.02... > > > > Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Banks, OR Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jun 16, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: large pilot needs advice
> >Hi All, > >Sorry to bother you all with a question that has probably been asked half a >hundred times before but i think it's a kind of important thing for me to ask. >I am 6'3 and pretty broad across the shoulders. Currently i'm thinking of


June 08, 1998 - June 16, 1998

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