RV-Archive.digest.vol-fg
August 20, 1998 - August 25, 1998
Bill, the incident I recall reading about I believe happened Down Under. There
was some evidence that the lower rear part of the fiberglass tail fairing (which
are normally screwed down into one of the stringers) was not secured by screws
and
apparently when the elevator was full down, the bottom of the fairing somehow
overlapped the top of the elevator. This then prevented the elevator from moving
from a full nose down configuration. I noticed on my fairing that if you trimed
the lower rear fairing sufficiently then the elevator can be below it and if the
fairing did stick out from the side of the airframe sufficiently it could overhang
the elevator and prevent it from returning to neutral position. I now have two
screws on each side of the fuselage holding down the lower rear of the fairing.
Ed
> t as I recall, it hooks well enough around the leading edge to prevent
> it coming up and off with ease against the slipstream, right?
>
> Also the leverage afforded by the joystick would give the panicked pilot
> enough force to crush this piece if it were jammed in the works, I would
> think... Didn't a French RV pilot experience an elevator jam in the
> counterweight area a few years back and live to tell the tale?
>
> Bill Boyd
> RV-6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Dimeo <Robert.Dimeo(at)digital.com> |
| Subject: | Tail Lite Wires; One or Two? |
Von,
If you bond the rudder to the vertical stab with a bonding strap, you can
run one (hot) wire to the lite and ground the lite to lower rudder spar. The
other option of course is to run the ground wire back through to the rear
fuselage bulkhead.
Regards,
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: MAlexan533(at)aol.com [SMTP:MAlexan533(at)aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 1:03 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Tail Lite Wires; One or Two?
Before I close up the turtledeck skin on my RV-8, I want to run the
wire or
wires for the tailite in the rudder. Do I run one wire or two? Can
the ground
wire from the lite be connected locally, such as just inside the
tail, etc. Or
is it necessary to run the ground back up to behind the panel to a
central
grounding point? As I recall, my RV-4 I sold had only a single
wire going
back to the rudder, so I am somewhat confused on this. Electrical
is not my
strong suit, but a strong willingness to learn will make up for it!
(I hope)
Von Alexander
RV-8
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Franklin update ??? |
Hey Scott,
How's that Franklin install going? This still looks like it would make a great
option. I also wonder if Van's will be able to negotiate a good discount on
these engines. Please keep us posted.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
Kolb SlingShot N8754K
RV-8, 80587 (tanks- Arrrgh)
rad(at)pen.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
'Listers,
I am mounting #8 nutplates behind the spinner of my RV-4 as recommended by
many on the RV List. My O-360 ring gear passes awfully close (c. 3/8") to
the inside of the cowl fiberglass in that area. I think it is much too
close to install a nutplate at the aft edge of the fiberglass for fear that
the screw will hit the ring gear as the engine moves around. Is this
normal, or is my cowling too narrow on the sides behind the spinner? Do
most of you crowd your screws farther forward to miss the ring gear?
Thanks in advance,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST thought I was finished mounting the cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
BTW, I also came up with a solution for using 28V gyros
(cheaper than new
14V gyros) in my RV-4 with a 14V electrical system. (I
have a dual
electrical system and no vacuum system.) If you are
interested in this
problem let me know and I will get the info out to you.
Brian,
Please tell us more regarding the use of 28V gyros and
your dual electrical system.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Help in deciding. |
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com (cecil t hatfield) |
Hi Scott,
After several replys from many people, I have made up my mind to get the
GX65. So many people can't be ignored. Some that had the unit and some
that wish they had it. One was an avionics salesman that said it was the
best. Course he may be selling them, so I have to consider that.
However the fact that so many liked the GX65 and not one thought the
other two we better, had to weigh a lot .
So your 2 cents goes a long way to confirm my decision.
This type of interaction with the 'list' is what makes it so valuable.
I have the air speed, Artificial horizon, and directional gyro now and
expect to have most of the instruments within 8 weeks now. Some from Van
and some elsewhere.
See you at the homecoming.
Thanks again,
Cecil Hatfield
writes:
>
>
>>I'm looking to get a GPS moving map/com panel mount instrument.
>> Take a look at the new II morrow GX60. We have the GX50 (GPS only)
>in one of the company RV-6A's and I really like it. It is very
>intuitive to use (I don't think any of us has ever
>read the manual for it), but once you are familiar with any of II
>morrows
>more recent units you can figure out any of them. Wish I could say
>the same for the KLX-135A. It is the most user unfriendly unit that I
>have ever used (after not using it for a while it
>takes a few attempts just to get a airport loaded in as a waypoint
>that I
>wish to navigate to).
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are my own
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | How to fly an RV |
What follows is an outline only for those who are still building and
probably have low time and/or none recent. The rest of you, don't even read
this.
Like all other builders, I read all the magazine articles on how to handle
an RV. Nothing really prepares you for an RV, so the best you can do is
talk to those who have flown and try to get some rides and dual. Nobody is
likely to let you take it off or land it.
Step 1. Take-off. Mounting up is fun in itself. You get comfortable and
strap in and these surroundings make it self evident that you are aboard
something really different. After all the checks are done and you are ready
to roll, feed in the throttle gradually and you will find the thrust to be
fairly strong. You feel it in your back. With this will come the tendency
to pull left, which you will be prepared for, and you apply right rudder as
needed. After I mastered this, I found I was dropping right wing on
lift-off. Others did the same. This is because I was so keen to get an
arrow straight lift-off that I was holding in rudder too long. The a/c will
lift off by itself and if you have a tailwheel, raising the tail improves
the view and makes you feel like a hot dog, but you don't have to do this
unless you want to.
Step 2. Climb and cruise. Once you are climbing out, you will find that the
controls are light but not snaky and you can move them around gently while
you decide when to level out, turn whatever. When you throttle back,
(because you get to height quickly) it gets quieter and you have time to do
a scan and enjoy life a bit. Tooling around will let you feel how much
response is there and what you feel you like to do. Not much else to say
here.
Step 3. Landing. If you stay in the pattern, you may not get too much
speed up, but if you fly away and come back to join up, you need to think
about slowing down. This you will get to learn quickly and easily and there
is more than one way to do it. Downwind should be about 100 mph, base
slower to 80, final to 75 and 70 and 65 once you get good. I only use one
notch of flap because until I changed the flap handle, no way could I get
the second notch on. (I had cut it down 2 ")..big mistake. I am used to it
now and it works for me. I use 2nd notch rarely and only if I am too high.
I do not practice touch and goes because I want to save the wheels and
brakes and I can make 2 good landings followed by a bummer, so I feel any
landing is a keeper and that suits me. When to turn final is the big
question and depends on wind and traffic and your height. I try to get it
slowed to 75, know I have the runway made. By 70, I am nearly there, and I
quit looking at the airspeed and keep a steady descent. I round out gently
at a height that tells me it is time now ( I really don't know if it is
20-15 or 10 , sorry) THEN, I keep the spinner up MODERATELY, no more and
she will settle on the mains. If I keep pulling back like a Cessna, she
will rise up and drop in. If you are short, an addition of throttle will
carry you to the numbers. If you are a bit high and chop the throttle, she
will settle kind of quick. All this is a description of approach on a short
runway. Ours is 2000'.
I don't need the brakes until the end for turn off. The RV thankfully
tracks very nicely and straight which is a big help for a novice.
If you have a long runway, then life should be even easier for now you can
keep power on all the way, settle as you like, and just let the tarmac come
up to meet you and you roll out. No brakes needed.
I just like to land as deadstick as I can because I was taught that way and
I think it could be valuable.
Pros can send their flames as they choose. This is only a guide for
amateurs by an amateur. I was way out of date with my flying and was
nervous more about the systems than about myself. I had 1.5 hrs checkout in
my RV then went solo thereafter. I am still learning of course. I just
thought this would be of encouragement for those who hope to strap in and
take the challenge sometime down the road.
This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
list and retire to the shop where I dream of bashing more rivets for
another magic carpet.......so long.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
| Subject: | Automated N-number lookup utility |
I've had a few requests from builders to automate my N-number lookup
program, so I went ahead and did it.
Description - There are a number of searchable databases on the internet
that will tell you which N-numbers are already taken. But since I haven't
been able to find one that will tell me what is available, I decided to
build one myself. This utility is a program (named 'lookup') that runs on
my home server computer (analogia.com) and responds to email requests.
How To Use - You need to follow the rules below precisely because this is a
dumb little program, and it only follows simple orders. To find out if a
given N-number pattern is available (as of a few months ago when the FAA
last published their databases), send a request to ,
with one or more lookup requests, each request on a line by itself.
Example - Lets say I want to find an available N-number that ends in "DC"
for Don Corbitt, or "AG" for Analogia Graphics, or "6RV". Send a single
piece of email as follows:
To: lookup(at)analogia.com
Subject:
lookup: ??6rv
lookup: ???dc
lookup: ???ag
lookup: 123?
I would get back a mail message for each lookup request. The first response
would look like this:
********************************************
Available N-Number Lookup Engine.
Written by , Don Corbitt, just for fun.
Maintainer Experimental Avionics mailing list
Send message to to join.
--
116RV, 136RV, 156RV, 166RV, 176RV, 186RV, 216RV, 226RV,
236RV, 256RV, 266RV, 276RV, 286RV, 296RV, 306RV, 326RV,
336RV, 356RV, 366RV, 376RV, 386RV, 396RV, 406RV, 416RV,
426RV, 436RV, 446RV, 456RV, 486RV, 496RV, 516RV, 526RV,
536RV, 546RV, 556RV, 576RV, 586RV, 596RV, 606RV, 616RV,
626RV, 636RV, 646RV, 656RV, 676RV, 686RV, 696RV, 706RV,
716RV, 746RV, 786RV, 796RV, 806RV, 816RV, 836RV, 846RV,
856RV, 866RV, 876RV, 886RV, 896RV, 906RV, 916RV, 926RV,
936RV, 946RV, 956RV, 976RV,
Found 68 available IDs in a search space of 90
********************************************
Donation/Payment - None requested nor accepted, unless you have room for a
passenger in an RV-6(A) in the Seattle area.... :-)
If you have any questions or suggestions please send them directly to me,
. Thanks.
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
Maintainer Experimental Avionics mailing list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Turbojet Engine... |
Okay, so this isn't exactly RV related, but it *is* pretty interesting!
Maybe a 500lbs unit might fit in an RV-4 - could put Lycoming out of
business...
URL: http://www.mecoa.com/sophia/
Enjoy,
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
> This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
>and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
>list and retire to the shop where I dream of bashing more rivets for
>another magic carpet.......so long.......
>
Corsair,
I find your posts pretty much without technical merit but that does not
bother me. It may not exactly meet Matt's guidelines but I think a
mixture of building tips and inspirational prose (well written) is
entirely appropriate.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6Q N441LP Reserved
Wiring & FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail Lite Wires; One or Two? |
<< Before I close up the turtledeck skin on my RV-8, I want to run the wire or
wires for the taillight in the rudder. Do I run one wire or two? Can the
ground
wire from the lite be connected locally, such as just inside the tail, etc.
Or
is it necessary to run the ground back up to behind the panel to a central
grounding point? >>
It is considered bad form to allow hinges to be an electrical path. I run
short straps (I got some small dia stainless steel cables with stainless lugs
at a fly market sometime back) across all of my control surface hinge lines
for lightning protection (just in case) and, yes, you can ground locally on a
metal a/c for lights.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
<< I don't know all of the details but it is believed that the portion of
the fairing that closes the area behind the horiz. stab. (bridging
between the vertical stab and the main fuse longeron) flapped open to
the side (possibly because of the airstream), and the bottom of it
caught on the elevator. >>
It would be interesting to duplicate this failure mode on the ground and see
if the typical pilot could manually overpower the fairing with a pull on the
joystick to achieve neutral elevator.
My homebrew fairing stops at the elevator hinge line. I use an aluminum plate
to fill in behind the elevator horn torque tube, held on by four screws each
side, two of which are tapped into the longeron, two into the vertical stab
skin. I believe those screws in the longerons have plenty of "bite" and with
loctite should not give trouble.
-Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine data plate |
If you raise your compression ratio on the Lycoming, do you need to use a
different type of avgas?
Joe Walker
Rebuilding Wreaked RV6
Houston, Texas
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> >Thanks, very much for the detailed reply, Jim. Do you know who to talk to
> >about an stc for the 160 upgrade? Thanks, again. Michael.
>
> No STC needed on an experimental aircraft. The differences between the 150
> hp and 160 hp O-320s (as I recall) are the pistons. The 160 hp engine has
> higher compression pistons and therefore requires higher octane fuel. If
> you want to burn mogas, stick with the low compression pistons.
>
> If you want even more power, check with LyCon in Visalia, CA. They have
> pistons for the O-320 and O-360 in compression ratios from 8:1 to 12:1.
> They will also flow the heads to improve volumetric efficiency.
>
> Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
> brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
> http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | SEAT/BAGGAGE RIBS PREASSEMBLED |
Any first-time builder: Have you assembled your seat and baggage ribs with
bulkheads F-604 and F605 on a workbench (instead in the fuselage jig as
described in VAN'S manual) ?? Jerry Scott has build several RV's and builf
planes very very fast. His method of pre-assembles was written up in an
article in The RVator April '95?
I am somewhat relunctunt to follow Jerry's suggestion but it seem to me much
easier than crawling under the jig all the time. Any comments are greatly
appreciated.
Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Using fiberglass for gear stiffening? |
Hi all,
I believe that if the legs are bending out of shape (deforming) under landing
stresses, then their MOE (modulus of elasticity) has been exceeded which means
their fatigue life will be exceedingly short. They will break very, very soon.
If they are bending, they are not strong enough for the task.
Maybe some materials scientist will comment - most of what I learned in college
only lasted till final exams. In fact, some didn't last that long.
hal
> I'm thinking the legs may need straightening.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine data plate |
Listers,
This will be my final thread (please) on Engine Data Plate.
Micheal Lott asked me about needing an STC to raise horsepower on a Lycoming
engine. I told him exactly what the FAA required ( no STC, no certified engine
)
Someone else wrote in and said you didn't need an STC to keep your Lycoming
certified when you had an experimental aircraft.
Please take this advice: If you are considering doing your own overhaul to
a Lycoming engine and want to keep it certified, you will have a lot of time and
money invested in Lycoming Service Bulletins, Service Instructions and
Maintenance Manuals. Then you have to research all AD's and Proposed AD's
on the engine you are overhauling. This takes hours of reading. But above all,
DON'T take my word or anyone else's in place of finding out for yourself. We all
mean well I'm sure and will gladly give our advice when asked. But when it came
to dealing with the FAA and my airplane, I didn't take anyones advice, I found
out from the people that had the information. The FAA and Lycoming.
Another piece of advice: If you think time is money, do yourself a favor and
have your engine overhauled by people that do it everyday. While I'm glad I
overhauled my own engine and I'm happy with the result, I could have saved
myself a lot of time and headache by having someone else do it.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Irace <birace(at)sirtfweb.jpl.nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: SEAT/BAGGAGE RIBS PREASSEMBLED |
I did it this way and am VERY glad I did. Crawling in and out of the jig is
a nuisance. This assembly is self contained and is easily done on a
workbench, except for the aft ends of the two outboard baggage compartment
ribs. I didn't rivet it together until after framing the entire fuselage,
but I never had to disassemble it.
skinning fuselage, 6A
********
>
>Any first-time builder: Have you assembled your seat and baggage ribs with
>bulkheads F-604 and F605 on a workbench (instead in the fuselage jig as
>described in VAN'S manual) ?? Jerry Scott has build several RV's and builf
>planes very very fast. His method of pre-assembles was written up in an
>article in The RVator April '95?
>
>I am somewhat relunctunt to follow Jerry's suggestion but it seem to me much
>easier than crawling under the jig all the time. Any comments are greatly
>appreciated.
>
>
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
Austin,
Please don't go, your words are woven so well into the stories that you
tell...
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: SEAT/BAGGAGE RIBS PREASSEMBLED |
Lothar,
I'm building a -4 not a -6 but imagine there are a lot of similarities in
this area. Just completed this section, built it in the jig, and if I had
it to do over again would pre-assemble the whole thing on the bench first.
The problem (at least on a -4) is that this stuff is all hanging in space
above the rungs of the jig and in order to make certain that everything is
level/square it is necessary to add a lot of temporary support structure to
the jig. Maybe this is unnecessary, but I could find no other way to keep
everything together and aligned while drilling/clecoing/rivetting. Of
course this additional structure further impedes access.
Mike Wills
RV-4 skinning fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>
>Any first-time builder: Have you assembled your seat and baggage ribs with
>bulkheads F-604 and F605 on a workbench (instead in the fuselage jig as
>described in VAN'S manual) ??
>
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: fuel starvation |
Though this is not directly related to RV's, it is related to the subject at
hand, and airplanes in general. I could not believe the timeliness of this
articlae from the Sept 98 Flying Magazine's "On The Record" Column.
Cessna 182 Skylane
accident during descent
Orland, California
Weather: nightVMC
pilot certificates: commercial
Instrument-rated: yes
Total time: 1,100 hours
The pilot was completing a four-hour
flight. The pilot reported that he made a
left banking turn to align the airplane
with the runway. He had previously po-
sitioned the fuel selector to the left tank
position and he said he believes the ma-
neuver caused the fuel to unport and
the engine to lose power due to fuel
stawation. He was unable to restart the
engine and made a forced landing on a
highway. It was a dark night and the air-
plane's wing struck a telephone pole.
Aircraft damage: substantial
Injuries: pilot--minor/none; passen-
gers-one serious, one minor/none
probable cause: The pilot's failure to
follow checklist procedures to assure
that the fuel selector was in the both fuel
tanks position. Fuel starvation and the
dark night were factors in this accident.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
In a message dated 8/20/98 6:31:56 Central Daylight Time, dougr(at)petroblend.com
writes:
<< Austin,
Please don't go, your words are woven so well into the stories that you
tell... >>
I echo Mr. Rozendaal's sentiments.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automated N-number lookup utility |
Don Corbitt wrote:
>
>
> I've had a few requests from builders to automate my N-number lookup
> program, so I went ahead and did it.
>
> Description - There are a number of searchable databases on the internet
> that will tell you which N-numbers are already taken. But since I haven't
> been able to find one that will tell me what is available, I decided to
> build one myself. This utility is a program (named 'lookup') that runs on
> my home server computer (analogia.com) and responds to email requests.
>
> How To Use - You need to follow the rules below precisely because this is a
> dumb little program, and it only follows simple orders. To find out if a
> given N-number pattern is available (as of a few months ago when the FAA
> last published their databases), send a request to ,
> with one or more lookup requests, each request on a line by itself.
>
> Example - Lets say I want to find an available N-number that ends in "DC"
> for Don Corbitt, or "AG" for Analogia Graphics, or "6RV". Send a single
> piece of email as follows:
>
> To: lookup(at)analogia.com
> Subject:
>
> lookup: ??6rv
> lookup: ???dc
> lookup: ???ag
> lookup: 123?
>
> I would get back a mail message for each lookup request. The first response
> would look like this:
>
> ********************************************
> Available N-Number Lookup Engine.
> Written by , Don Corbitt, just for fun.
> Maintainer Experimental Avionics mailing list
> Send message to to join.
> --
> 116RV, 136RV, 156RV, 166RV, 176RV, 186RV, 216RV, 226RV,
> 236RV, 256RV, 266RV, 276RV, 286RV, 296RV, 306RV, 326RV,
> 336RV, 356RV, 366RV, 376RV, 386RV, 396RV, 406RV, 416RV,
> 426RV, 436RV, 446RV, 456RV, 486RV, 496RV, 516RV, 526RV,
> 536RV, 546RV, 556RV, 576RV, 586RV, 596RV, 606RV, 616RV,
> 626RV, 636RV, 646RV, 656RV, 676RV, 686RV, 696RV, 706RV,
> 716RV, 746RV, 786RV, 796RV, 806RV, 816RV, 836RV, 846RV,
> 856RV, 866RV, 876RV, 886RV, 896RV, 906RV, 916RV, 926RV,
> 936RV, 946RV, 956RV, 976RV,
> Found 68 available IDs in a search space of 90
> ********************************************
>
> Donation/Payment - None requested nor accepted, unless you have room for a
> passenger in an RV-6(A) in the Seattle area.... :-)
>
> If you have any questions or suggestions please send them directly to me,
> . Thanks.
> --
> Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
> Maintainer Experimental Avionics mailing list
>
Don,
Don't forget reserved N numbers. Mine is N648RV and I don't see it on
your list!
Ed Cole
RV6A N648RV Rsv'd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Pitot/Static/Transponder certification |
Listers
Will The DAR/FAA want proof of the Pitot/Static/Transponder
certification before they issue the airworthiness certificate?
There is only one guy in TLH that does this, and his reputation
is bad to say the least.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Help in deciding. |
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com (cecil t hatfield) |
Hi Bob,
After all the feedback from the list with lots of good information, I
have come to the conclusion that I will get the GX65. According to this
feedback it is easier to read in sunlight, Better transmitting power and
you can choose from three screens. These are the things that swayed me to
go with it. So far the best price I have is $2800.
Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.
Cecil Hatfield
Thousand Oaks, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Bolt and screw hole sizes |
Listeners: What is the correct hole size for a 6-32 screw? I am trying to
install the 6-32 nutplates and would like to know the final screw hole size
for a dimpled nut plate accepting a 6-32 screw. Are there charts one can
refer to for this information as I'd bet there are other screw sizes where I
will need to know the hole diameter. Of course I could just mic the screw
and drill accordingly, but inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
I received a sufficient number of requests for info on running 28V gyros
off a 14V electrical system that I felt it warranted a reply here.
First, I want to amplify on my comments about 28V gyros being cheaper. I
found that *older* 28V gyros are cheaper than new ones AND they appear to
be more robust (I like to do aerobatics which tends to bash gyros). I was
able to purchase an overhauled and yellow-tagged AIM attitude gyro for $700
from the Gyro House in Auburn, CA. (No, I don't know if they have any
more.) This is the older style gyro with the black background and a single
white line for the horizon. None of this "the sky is blue and the ground
is brown" sissy stuff. :^) It is a standard 3.125" instrument. This gyro
handles 360 degree pitch and roll. (It does incorrectly show a roll if you
hold it at exactly +/- 90 degrees of pitch for any length of time but I am
not too worried as I do not keep my RV-4 pointed straight up or straight
down for any significant length of time. ;^)
OK, I have just saved $700 on the attitude gyro but how do I make it run on
my 14V electrical system? (No, it won't do anything if you try to power it
off of 14V -- I tried just for grins.) I turned to one of my electrical
engineer friends who builds power supplies for a living. He pointed me at
the Maxim Max1771 adjustable, high-efficiency, step-up DC-DC controller
chip. You can pick up the data sheet at
http://209.1.238.250/arpdf/1030.pdf. One of their examples is a "2V to 12V
in input to adjustable 24V output" converter which is almost exactly what
you need to build.
The kicker is that Maxim makes an evaluation kit for this chip which is a
complete, ready-to-use converter on a 1" square circuit board. This board
is designed to take 5V in and output 12V but you can make it do 14V in and
28V out just by adding two resistors, for which they have included space on
the board, and changing the output capacitors from 20V units to ones that
will handle the output voltage (I used output caps with a 36V rating). You
can get the data sheet for the evaluation kit at
http://209.1.238.250/arpdf/1260.pdf.
If you are comfortable scratch-building circuits like this (the parts count
is pretty low -- about 10 components) you can talk Maxim out of free
samples of the chip. I am lazy so I paid the approximately $30 for the
evaluation kit since it had the somewhat-hard-to-find components already
there (no, you can't get all the components you need at Radio Shack).
The hardest part of building the converter is solving the formula that
selects the two resistors that set the output voltage. As I recall the two
nearest standard resistor values resulted in an output voltage of just
short of 27V (something like 26.8V). The values I used are 10K for R1 and
I think 168K for R2 (these will make sense when you read the data sheet
which describes the circuit). The resistors are chip resistors which
require somewhat of a delicate touch to solder to the board. This was my
first experience soldering surface-mount components (no leads) but it
wasn't too dificult and I didn't destroy anything in the process. If you
are concerned about soldering just remember that soldering is a skill like
driving rivets and you manged to learn how to do that, right? :^)
The finished converter seems to be able to source about 1.5A at 27V. Since
the gyro only draws about .8A at that voltage, it looks like there is ample
margin. The coverter gets only mildly warm (maybe 20 degree F temperature
rise) in operation. The gyro seems to like it just fine and the whole mess
has run for 24 hours on my work bench with no sign of trouble.
If you are planning to power two gyros, I would build one converter for
each gyro. That way not only is the converter running at only 50% of its
rating, a failure of a converter would only disable one gyro.
One possible concern is interference with the radios. Since the converter
runs at about 200 KHz, I suspect that it would interfere rather badly with
an ADF. If you have an ADF you will probably need to build the converter
into a shielded box with filtering at the input and output. I did not
shield mine since I did not plan to have an ADF in my RV-4. I have run
tests and have not detected any interference with my comm, nav, or GPS
receivers.
I hope this helps someone. It saved me about $700 on the price of a gyro
and was a relatively quick and rewarding project. If you decide to go this
route feel free to drop me a note if you have questions or need assistance.
(Bob Nuckols: feel free to include this information in your very useful
book on electrical systems if you are so inclined.)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Denman <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi John,
I have a really old one( like 10 years... one of the original ones) and a brand
new one still in the box. If you still need the pin out I will go out and look
for it. The people at Quite Flite are also real good about this type of request.
Please reply with your FAX and/or E mail
Mike Denman
RV6
Pay attention to the details. Sweat the small shit.
John Perri wrote:
>
> Looking for a schematic or interface pin-out for a Sierra Radio Quiet
> Flight Inter-Comm.
> Anyone else have one of these in their RV?
>
> Thanks
>
> JMP RV-6 N345JE
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automated N-number lookup utility |
Ed, my program gives you a list of _available_ IDs, which is why yours is
not there. In other words, someone (you) already reserved 648RV, so it
isn't on the available list.
That is the intended benefit of the entire process. There are lots of
databases that give you a list of reserved and active numbers, but I hadn't
seen one that does the work of finding out which numbers are actually
available.
Let me know if I misunderstood you here....
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
Maintainer Experimental Avionics mailing list
Send message to to join.
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
[snip]
>> 626RV, 636RV, 646RV, 656RV, 676RV, 686RV, 696RV, 706RV,
[snip]
>> Found 68 available IDs in a search space of 90
[snip]
>Don,
>Don't forget reserved N numbers. Mine is N648RV and I don't see it on
>your list!
>
>Ed Cole
>RV6A N648RV Rsv'd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bradley Kidder, Jr." <sparksnmagic(at)earthlink.net> |
Just sharing that Mark LaBoyteaux flew into Fort Smith, AR, and let me take
his -6A up for a while. What an airplane. Still unencumbered by the
burden of paint, I was able to look at and discuss some of the finer
construction points and recommendations (paint being one). Though it was
marginal VFR that day (haze), there was enough room to play with the
g-loads, turn radii, and that OH-SO-SMART-FEELING aileron rate. I came
back KNOWING I'm building the right airplane.
THANKS MARK!!!!
// s //
Bradley W. Kidder, Jr.
sparksnmagic(at)earthlink.net
ICQ# 11770815
RV-6A (empennage)
N188FW (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Guys,
This flap trailing edge is really bugging me! I haven't attached the
top skin to the bottom skin yet, but I have dry fitted to see how
everything lines up. It takes quite a push to get the top skin to lay
down on the bottom skin at the overlap joint. Seems that once it is all
riveted and a ruler was layed perpendicular to spar on the bottom of the
flap, it would not lay flat! Has anyone noticed that the bottom of your
flap is not flat????
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automated N-number lookup utility |
Don Corbitt wrote:
>
>
> Ed, my program gives you a list of _available_ IDs, which is why yours is
> not there. In other words, someone (you) already reserved 648RV, so it
> isn't on the available list.
>
> That is the intended benefit of the entire process. There are lots of
> databases that give you a list of reserved and active numbers, but I hadn't
> seen one that does the work of finding out which numbers are actually
> available.
>
>
Don,
My apologies. I guess I should have read your post more carefully.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Franklin update ??? |
47-51,53-59
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Hey Scott,
>
>How's that Franklin install going? This still looks like it would
>make a great
>option. I also wonder if Van's will be able to negotiate a good
>discount on
>these engines. Please keep us posted.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Russell Duffy
>
I think Ken will have an update in the next RVator (coming out sooooon...
as usual), but I guess I can give a little run down.
Phil, one of the other shop guys did the motor mount (Hug job) using one
from a Stinson as a model. When I returned from Oshkosh the engine was
mounted with a new McCauly (sp?) prop and a spinner fitted.
By this time he had dubbed the whole thing the Franklinstien.
Developing a whole new installation is being a bit of a challenge.
Everything (and I mean everything) is different compared to a Lycoming.
Bed style motor mount, rear mounted starter, rear mounted alternator,
front mounted governor, Far, far, far, far,aft mounted carburetor with an
induction system that has to pass through a portion of the motor mount,
and on, and on, and on.
I have just completed modifying the cowl (1 1/4" longer) and building a
modified (chopped and lowered) FAB360 airbox.
We still have a ways to go. Need to work out an exhaust system, and an
induction air inlet for the airbox, as well as a baffle system.
What we know so far.
The engines have always been advertised by the U.S. dealer as being 220
HP but the one we received has a data tag that says 205 HP (which is
closer to what Van always figured the actual HP was considering the
displacement of the engine).
The all up engine weight is heavier than an IO-360 (which is already 50
to 55 lbs heavier than an O-360), but I don't remember by how much.
The associated installation parts (motor mount, cowl, etc) will likely be
heavier than for the Lycoming installations.
Performance... we wont know until we fly it.
When will we fly it? when its completed. :-)
What will it cost? I don't think we know since we haven't even developed
a complete installation yet, and as far as I know no engine prices have
ever been discussed with anyone because we don't even know if it is a
viable engine choice for an RV-8 until we fly it.
That's about all I can tell you so far.
If you come to the Homecoming fly-in you can take a look at it.
Want to know more? . . . . . . Then you will have to wait because that is
about all we know at this time so stand-by, we will keep you posted.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Prepunch is your friend |
Hello all,
A few years ago, I started an RV-6 project (before pre-punched kits) and only
managed to finish the tail and about half the wings. That project was sold and
after a short Kolb project, I started an RV-8. Yesterday, I reached the same
point I was at with the RV-6 kit, but the difference in time is remarkable. The
RV-6 took 670 hours to this point, and the RV-8 only took 215. Van's has done
well with these kits :-)
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
Kolb SlingShot N8754K
RV-8, 80587 (tanks on the horizon)
rad(at)pen.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot/Static/Transponder certification |
>Will The DAR/FAA want proof of the Pitot/Static/Transponder
>certification before they issue the airworthiness certificate?
>There is only one guy in TLH that does this, and his reputation
>is bad to say the least.
Hi Craig (and anyone else that might be in the area),
I can't answer your question really because I don't have a transponder in my
Kolb. There may be another DAR option that you don't know about though. I used
a guy named Richard Kukucka (pronounced Ka-kuch-ka) out of Enterprise, AL. He
has an IFR Cessna and will fly to you for the inspection. You pay his fuel and
the inspection fee which I don't quite remember. He was great to work with and
I will absolutely use him again when the RV-8 is done. If you want to give him
a call:
334-347-7171 (office)
334-393-9008 (fax)
When I called him initially, he sent me a packet of info to fill out and return
to him. He finished filling out his part, and had it all with him when he came
to do the inspection. No pressure, very laid back guy.
Good luck,
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
<< This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
list and retire >>
I hope you change your mind! I find your posts a refreshing change now and
then. You have a vivid imagination, and have a way of making us feel like we
are right in the seat next to you. I dont think to many out there mind your
posts, more than likely just the opposite.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <lewy(at)lanset.com> |
"rv-list(at)matronics.com"
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 NEWS GROUP??? HELP! |
"rv-list(at)matronics.com"
Send a Subscribe here and it will automaticly forward to the correct
list server.
Just put Subscribe in the subject line and subscribe in the body,
nothing else...
--
Jim Lewis
Now at http://www.lanset.com/lewy/default.htm
Just an opinion mindya
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SEAT/BAGGAGE RIBS PREASSEMBLED |
Recommended. Here are photos of the sequence:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/fuse2.html
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
Lothar Klingmuller wrote:
>
>
> Any first-time builder: Have you assembled your seat and baggage ribs with
> bulkheads F-604 and F605 on a workbench (instead in the fuselage jig as
> described in VAN'S manual) ?? Jerry Scott has build several RV's and builf
> planes very very fast. His method of pre-assembles was written up in an
> article in The RVator April '95?
>
> I am somewhat relunctunt to follow Jerry's suggestion but it seem to me much
> easier than crawling under the jig all the time. Any comments are greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
>
>
><< This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
> and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
> list and retire >>
> I hope you change your mind! I find your posts a refreshing change now and
>then. You have a vivid imagination, and have a way of making us feel like we
>are right in the seat next to you. I dont think to many out there mind your
>posts, more than likely just the opposite.
> Ryan Bendure Co.
>
I'd like to second that motion. Granted your 'numbers' on downwind,
base and final aren't the same as mine but that's no problem.
I like the clear and simple style of writing you use. Keep it up and
keep us posted on your experiences.
John Ammeter
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
Austin,
I wholeheartedly agree with Doug. I have greatly appreciated your whimsical
posts.
Ray Murphy, jr.
>
> Austin,
>
> Please don't go, your words are woven so well into the stories that you
> tell...
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Screw hole sizes |
<< Listeners: What is the correct hole size for a 6-32 screw? I am trying to
install the 6-32 nutplates and would like to know the final screw hole size
for a dimpled nut plate accepting a 6-32 screw. Are there charts one can
refer to for this information as I'd bet there are other screw sizes where I
will need to know the hole diameter. Of course I could just mic the screw
and drill accordingly, but inquiring minds want to know. Thanks. >>
This is from a chart I used at Lockheed:
2-56 screw clearance hole = .09375" = 3/32" or #41 drill
4-40 screw clearance hole = .12500" = 1/8" or #30 drill
6-32 screw clearance hole = .15625" = 5/32" or #22 drill
8-32 screw clearance hole = .18750" = #13 or 3/16" drill
10-32 screw clearance hole = .20313" = 13/64" or #6 drill
Bolts are structural and the requirements of the a/c plans and manual should
be followed, as each fastening has individual requirements that influence the
class of fit required.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | daviddla(at)Juno.com (Blah ba Blah) |
Hello Gentlemen; can someone tell me the width of the metal part of the
seat belt that bolts to the seat belt brackets. It actually bolts between
the brackets. Thanks, Dave , RV-6A fuseage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve(at)n45vl.reno.nv.us (Steve Baker) |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
>
>What follows is an outline only for those who are still building and
>probably have low time and/or none recent. The rest of you, don't even read
>this.
>Like all other builders, I read all the magazine articles on how to handle
>an RV. Nothing really prepares you for an RV, so the best you can do is
>talk to those who have flown and try to get some rides and dual. Nobody is
>likely to let you take it off or land it.
>Step 1. Take-off. Mounting up is fun in itself. You get comfortable and
>strap in and these surroundings make it self evident that you are aboard
>something really different. After all the checks are done and you are ready
>to roll, feed in the throttle gradually and you will find the thrust to be
>fairly strong. You feel it in your back. With this will come the tendency
>to pull left, which you will be prepared for, and you apply right rudder as
>needed. After I mastered this, I found I was dropping right wing on
>lift-off. Others did the same. This is because I was so keen to get an
>arrow straight lift-off that I was holding in rudder too long. The a/c will
>lift off by itself and if you have a tailwheel, raising the tail improves
>the view and makes you feel like a hot dog, but you don't have to do this
>unless you want to.
>Step 2. Climb and cruise. Once you are climbing out, you will find that the
>controls are light but not snaky and you can move them around gently while
>you decide when to level out, turn whatever. When you throttle back,
>(because you get to height quickly) it gets quieter and you have time to do
>a scan and enjoy life a bit. Tooling around will let you feel how much
>response is there and what you feel you like to do. Not much else to say
>here.
>Step 3. Landing. If you stay in the pattern, you may not get too much
>speed up, but if you fly away and come back to join up, you need to think
>about slowing down. This you will get to learn quickly and easily and there
>is more than one way to do it. Downwind should be about 100 mph, base
>slower to 80, final to 75 and 70 and 65 once you get good. I only use one
>notch of flap because until I changed the flap handle, no way could I get
>the second notch on. (I had cut it down 2 ")..big mistake. I am used to it
>now and it works for me. I use 2nd notch rarely and only if I am too high.
>I do not practice touch and goes because I want to save the wheels and
>brakes and I can make 2 good landings followed by a bummer, so I feel any
>landing is a keeper and that suits me. When to turn final is the big
>question and depends on wind and traffic and your height. I try to get it
>slowed to 75, know I have the runway made. By 70, I am nearly there, and I
>quit looking at the airspeed and keep a steady descent. I round out gently
>at a height that tells me it is time now ( I really don't know if it is
>20-15 or 10 , sorry) THEN, I keep the spinner up MODERATELY, no more and
>she will settle on the mains. If I keep pulling back like a Cessna, she
>will rise up and drop in. If you are short, an addition of throttle will
>carry you to the numbers. If you are a bit high and chop the throttle, she
>will settle kind of quick. All this is a description of approach on a short
>runway. Ours is 2000'.
>I don't need the brakes until the end for turn off. The RV thankfully
>tracks very nicely and straight which is a big help for a novice.
> If you have a long runway, then life should be even easier for now you can
>keep power on all the way, settle as you like, and just let the tarmac come
>up to meet you and you roll out. No brakes needed.
>I just like to land as deadstick as I can because I was taught that way and
>I think it could be valuable.
> Pros can send their flames as they choose. This is only a guide for
>amateurs by an amateur. I was way out of date with my flying and was
>nervous more about the systems than about myself. I had 1.5 hrs checkout in
>my RV then went solo thereafter. I am still learning of course. I just
>thought this would be of encouragement for those who hope to strap in and
>take the challenge sometime down the road.
> This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
>and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
>list and retire to the shop where I dream of bashing more rivets for
>another magic carpet.......so long.......
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bsgray(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes |
Marty RV6A wrote:
>
> Listeners: What is the correct hole size for a 6-32 screw? I am trying to
> install the 6-32 nutplates and would like to know the final screw hole size
> for a dimpled nut plate accepting a 6-32 screw. Are there charts one can
> refer to for this information as I'd bet there are other screw sizes where I
> will need to know the hole diameter. Of course I could just mic the screw
> and drill accordingly, but inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.
Yes, a #30 drill.
Bruce (Glasair III builder, still sandin')
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A vote of confidence, Was- How to fly an RV |
At 04:23 AM 8/21/98 GMT, you wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>><< This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
>> and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
>> list and retire >>
>> I hope you change your mind! I find your posts a refreshing change now and
>>then. You have a vivid imagination, and have a way of making us feel like we
>>are right in the seat next to you. I dont think to many out there mind your
>>posts, more than likely just the opposite.
>> Ryan Bendure Co.
>I'd like to second that motion. Granted your 'numbers' on downwind,
>base and final aren't the same as mine but that's no problem.
>
>I like the clear and simple style of writing you use. Keep it up and
>keep us posted on your experiences.
>
>John Ammeter
>RV-6 (sold 4/98)
>ATTN: RV4131rb(at)aol.com:
Regarding your writings. It seems that the general consenus is adding up to
a vote of approval.
I'm not sure if you are going away mad ,sad, or otherwise. Anyhow your
reasons are your own and rightfully so.
If you must go, go with warmth in your heart knowing that you will be
remembered and missed. The writing style you have shared with us has a
value all it's own and is not comparable to the run of the mill facts,data
and opinions that ebb and flow from day to day on this list.
I would suggest that you consider gathering your work together and
submitting it to a few if not all of the magazine editors and publishers
that you can find. Of course I'm no expert on such things but why not let
some pros look at your work.
Anyway I hope you'll feel like giving it a try.
I am here to say I am one of many that you have struck a chord with in your
writings.
Once again; Go if you must and rest assured you will be welcome on this list
any time the mood moves you.
jim B.C. Can. RV6-eh tanks, still!
When dreams come true the sky is the limit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | SEAT/BAGGAGE RIBS PREASSEMBLED |
I have seen this method in photos. I was too nervous about it all
fitting together to do it. If you were experienced or had experienced
help, then you might pull it off. It looks like it would greatly
simplify the task of reaching everything for drilling, riveting and
pr*ming. I built my RV-6A fuselage upside down in the jig as per the
manual. It came out quite straight and appears strong!
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A baggage area and floors
-----Original Message-----Have you assembled your seat
and baggage ribs with
bulkheads F-604 and F605 on a workbench (instead in the
fuselage jig as
described in VAN'S manual) ?? Jerry Scott has build
several RV's and builf
planes very very fast
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Self-Sealing screws |
Listers,
I just got a sample 8-32 x 1/2" stainless steel pan head screw with a viton o-
ring in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful thing with that
little groove to prevent the o-ring from squirming out on tightening. I
intend on using these for attaching my fuel senders and tank inspection plates
to prevent leaking around the screw holes.
The screw came from Long Lok Fasteners, makers of self locking and self
sealing fastening hardware. The problem is, I need to find a distributor as
they do not sell retail.
Do any of you know a source for these screws ?
Mark McGee
RV4 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Marshall" <marshan(at)meritorauto.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
"Corsair" on 20/08/98 12:17:23
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: How to fly an RV
Please don't stop - your writings have been an inspiration to the rest of
us who still have a long way to go.
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062)
Skinning second wing
marshan(at)meritorauto.com
This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
list and retire to the shop where I dream of bashing more rivets for
another magic carpet.......so long.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Austin,
It appears that we have all lost the color in the RV-list and it has
returned to it's black and white broadcast state without your occasional
posts. AL
> This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
>and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
>list and retire to the shop where I dream of bashing more rivets for
>another magic carpet.......so long....... Austin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hughes" <okeanos(at)email.msn.com> |
Hello folks,
Im new to the list.
Been lurking for over a year but just purchased tools and an empennage kit
at Oshkosh.
Now i have finished converting the garage to a shop and have the jig and
workspaces built.
My question is Are there any builders near Montgomery Alabama who might from
time to time offer advice or assistance.
My address is
Steve Hughes
102 Travis Ridge
Deatsville, Alabama
Deatsville is approximately 15 miles north of Montgomery
I live three miles from the Wetumpka Alabama airport
Thanks in advance
U may reply off list at
okeanos(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-Sealing screws |
FMark40(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I just got a sample 8-32 x 1/2" stainless steel pan head screw with a viton o-
> ring in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful thing with that
> little groove to prevent the o-ring from squirming out on tightening. I
> intend on using these for attaching my fuel senders and tank inspection plates
> to prevent leaking around the screw holes.
>
> The screw came from Long Lok Fasteners, makers of self locking and self
> sealing fastening hardware. The problem is, I need to find a distributor as
> they do not sell retail.
>
> Do any of you know a source for these screws ?
>
> Mark McGee
> RV4 Wings
>
Mark,
Per GV's Yellar Pages...
Long-Lok Fasteners 513-772-1880
I bought something like these locally at Olander's in Sunnyvale, Ca.
They are expensive.
around $2 each as I recall.
Olanders 408-735-1850
If you need me to pick them up for you. Let me know
Ed Cole RV6A Fuse Skins...still
Cupertino, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap question |
Jerry, it is difficult to comment without seeing your problem first
hand. I checked my flaps, and a ruler does not find them flat either,
but the bottom skin back to the overlap is ruler flat and the trailing
edge between the overlap and the bend is flat, too. The divergence at
the overlap is slight and attributable to the overlap itself. Without
the ruler I cannot see it. If this is the extent of your observation, I
don't think you have a problem to worry about.
As far as the push to get it to lay flat, I did not have that problem.
I had to push the skin up on the ribs slightly to get the proper
fore/aft alignment, but this did not spread the skin very much and was
only about a 1/4 inch press to make it lie flat again. If your problem
was similar but more excessive, then you may have had to build your
flaps too short (fore/aft). This could be due to excessive distance
from the wing rear spar to the edge of the wing skin where the flap
attaches, or too much gap between the wing and flap skins at the hinge.
Again, without looking at your project, this is just speculation. All I
can say for sure is that my wing kit, delivered about 3 years ago, had
the flap top skin bent correctly and there was no difficulty in fitting
it. Getting someone to look at your project will probably a) assure you
that the flap is just fine anyway and b) help you decide what went wrong
so you can avoid the hassle should you build another.
PatK - RV-6A
jerry calvert wrote:
>
> This flap trailing edge is really bugging me! I haven't attached the
> top skin to the bottom skin yet, but I have dry fitted to see how
> everything lines up. It takes quite a push to get the top skin to lay
> down on the bottom skin at the overlap joint. Seems that once it is all
> riveted and a ruler was layed perpendicular to spar on the bottom of the
> flap, it would not lay flat! Has anyone noticed that the bottom of your
> flap is not flat????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing Attach; RV-8 |
I am getting close to the trial fitting and drilling, etc. of the wings into
the fuse. My question is since I am working in a three car garage, and there
is not enough room obviously to fit the wings on, can I wait until I take the
completed fuse to the airport, and then do the wing fitting there, when they
go on permanently? Am I forgetting something? How did all of you do it that
are working in garages, etc?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
Installing turtledeck skin
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Denman <mikedenman(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Self-Sealing screws |
These are also available from McMaster Carr in Los Angeles (by mail). The ones
they list have silicone O rings (not good for your purpose) but they can (and
will) special order with the viton seals. The part number of the 8-32 X 1/2 with
the silicone seals is 90825A816. When I ordered mine I referenced this number
and
indicated I needed the vitron seals. It took them a couple of days to do the
research and then I had my screws. Their phone number is 562 692-5911.
Mike Denman
RV6
Pay attention to the details. Sweat the small shit.
FMark40(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
> I just got a sample 8-32 x 1/2" stainless steel pan head screw with a viton o-
> ring in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful thing with that
> little groove to prevent the o-ring from squirming out on tightening. I
> intend on using these for attaching my fuel senders and tank inspection plates
> to prevent leaking around the screw holes.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Attach; RV-8 |
<<
I am getting close to the trial fitting and drilling, etc. of the wings into
the fuse. My question is since I am working in a three car garage, and there
is not enough room obviously to fit the wings on, can I wait until I take the
completed fuse to the airport, and then do the wing fitting there, when they
go on permanently? Am I forgetting something? How did all of you do it that
are working in garages, etc?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 #544
Installing turtledeck skin
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
>>
Von,
On the RV-8, there is a prefab fairing that intersects with the fuselage and
flap. You must fit and rivet this to the fuselage after setting the wing
angle of incidence. This must be done prior to installing the false floor and
the baggage compartment floor. Just roll it out of the gagage. Start early
one morning with some help. It really doesn't take that long.
Regards,
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
#80126
49 hours ttsn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Self-Sealing screws |
<< The screw came from Long Lok Fasteners, makers of self locking and self
sealing fastening hardware. The problem is, I need to find a distributor as
they do not sell retail.
Do any of you know a source for these screws ? >>
Try Olander. Number is in the Yeller Pages.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bradley Kidder, Jr." <sparksnmagic(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Montgomery AL RV builder |
Greetings... I don't live there, but the man who talked me into an RV is
based at Prattville, right there by you. He's built FIVE so far, and has a
real nice RV-6 right there at Prattville field.
Here's his info:
Ray Hill
One Alpha Nine General Aviation
161B Grouby Airport
Prattville, AL 36067
334-365-2189
a real nice, knowledgeable fellow, but he doesn't do internet. If you talk
to him, tell him I referred you, and if he doesn't know who you're talking
about, tell him I'm the guy who sent him the dollar in the mail.
Hope this helps.
Bradley W. Kidder, Jr.
sparksnmagic(at)earthlink.net
ICQ# 11770815
URGENT MESSAGES: pagekidder(at)bigfoot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fesenbek, Gary" <gfesenbek(at)Meridium.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Attach; RV-8 |
I'm building in a one car. Man am I jealous!!
What I did and this was recommended by Vans (ken specifically) is to do
all fitting prior to moving the plane to the airport. It's not that bad
actually once you have drilled the rear spar attach point. To do this
just move the fuse out of the garage, fit the wings and then move them
back in. It took me two weekends of hard work to get this stuff done.
Then simply take the wings off and store them for when you go out to the
airport. The reason behind this is that once you move to the airport,
things that would take 1 hour in your shop might take 3-4 hours there
especially if you forget something and have to go back home. This will
expedite things as much as possible once you get to the airport.
Please note though that I don't work for Van's and I don't play a Van's
employee on TV. :^)
Gary Fesenbek
Roanoke, VA 24121
*************************************************
* Gary Fesenbek
*
* Meridium Inc.
*
* (540) 344-9205 x112
*
* gfesenbek(at)meridium.com
*
* http://www.meridium.com
*
*************************************************
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MAlexan533(at)aol.com [SMTP:MAlexan533(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 10:24 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Wing Attach; RV-8
>
>
> I am getting close to the trial fitting and drilling, etc. of the
> wings into
> the fuse. My question is since I am working in a three car garage,
> and there
> is not enough room obviously to fit the wings on, can I wait until I
> take the
> completed fuse to the airport, and then do the wing fitting there,
> when they
> go on permanently? Am I forgetting something? How did all of you do it
> that
> are working in garages, etc?
>
> Thanks.
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 #544
> Installing turtledeck skin
> MAlexan533(at)aol.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
How come every time I erase a bunch of RV list posts off my disc, a larger
percentage of the remaining ones were written by Corsair? Maybe it's
because as we resolve each little technical problem, the vision that keeps
us motivated is the one Corsair puts words to. This list would be much less
satisfying without his contributions.
Terry Watson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Higgins, John J." <john_higgins(at)merck.com> |
| Subject: | Self-Sealing screws |
You might also try McMaster Carr - they list 8-32 x 1/2" 18-8 stainless pan
head phillips screws with a "rubber-silicon" O-ring (in a machined groove
good for 500 psi) - their catalog #90825AB816 @ $55.25 per 100 - their
order desk is 908-329-3200 - they may also have info on the suitability of
the O rings for use with fuels
John Higgins
RV 8 - waiting on arrival of QB
> ----------
> From: Edward Cole[SMTP:emcole(at)ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 21, 1998 9:39 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Self-Sealing screws
>
>
> FMark40(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > I just got a sample 8-32 x 1/2" stainless steel pan head screw with a
> viton o-
>
> > ring in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful thing with
> that
> > little groove to prevent the o-ring from squirming out on tightening. I
> > intend on using these for attaching my fuel senders and tank inspection
> plates
>
> > to prevent leaking around the screw holes.
> >
> > The screw came from Long Lok Fasteners, makers of self locking and self
> > sealing fastening hardware. The problem is, I need to find a
> distributor as
> > they do not sell retail.
> >
> > Do any of you know a source for these screws ?
> >
> > Mark McGee
> > RV4 Wings
> >
> Mark,
>
> Per GV's Yellar Pages...
>
> Long-Lok Fasteners 513-772-1880
>
> I bought something like these locally at Olander's in Sunnyvale, Ca.
> They are expensive.
> around $2 each as I recall.
>
> Olanders 408-735-1850
>
> If you need me to pick them up for you. Let me know
>
> Ed Cole RV6A Fuse Skins...still
> Cupertino, CA
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automated N-number lookup utility |
Don,
Thanks so much for providing us with your skills in database manipulation.
I tried building queries at the landings.com site and felt like a bull in a
china shop. I used your programs to get a list of 10 N-numbers then called
Oklahoma City. 6 of the 10 were in revoked status, 2 were in a two year
hold status and 2 were available. This might have already been covered,
but the revoked status numbers may be available. I was told to put them in
my request and they would research the true status. Most of the revoked
numbers are there because of the change to total computer records. There
was a period in the 70's when the FAA required owners to respond to some
request which if not complied with would result in a revoking of the
N-number. The FAA agent said there is a possibility that planes are flying
with revoked numbers and the owners don't even know it.
Anyway, thanks again.
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JAMES A TILLMAN" <till3(at)email.msn.com> |
howdy, congrats on your new project. van will supply you with a list of all
the rv builders in your state if you ask. we are a couple of hours east,
but will offer any assistance possible. good luck.
jim tillman/chris landry
rv8 80655, skinning left wing
newnan, ga h:770-460-8450
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hughes <okeanos(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 9:31 AM
>
>Hello folks,
>Im new to the list.
>Been lurking for over a year but just purchased tools and an empennage kit
>at Oshkosh.
>Now i have finished converting the garage to a shop and have the jig and
>workspaces built.
>My question is Are there any builders near Montgomery Alabama who might
from
>time to time offer advice or assistance.
>My address is
>
>Steve Hughes
>102 Travis Ridge
>Deatsville, Alabama
>
>Deatsville is approximately 15 miles north of Montgomery
>I live three miles from the Wetumpka Alabama airport
>Thanks in advance
>U may reply off list at
>okeanos(at)msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Automated N-number lookup utility |
I don't have a list of revoked or 'held' n-numbers, if anyone knows where to
get one I'll add them to my database. Thanks for the feedback.
Likewise, if anyone else uses these results to get an ID, let me know if it
was truly available or not. I'd like to know how many of the 'available'
IDs really are.
FYI - I've had about 130 search requests in the last couple days generating
about 300 responses.
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
>Thanks so much for providing us with your skills in database manipulation.
>I tried building queries at the landings.com site and felt like a bull in a
>china shop. I used your programs to get a list of 10 N-numbers then called
>Oklahoma City. 6 of the 10 were in revoked status, 2 were in a two year
>hold status and 2 were available. This might have already been covered,
>but the revoked status numbers may be available. I was told to put them in
>my request and they would research the true status. Most of the revoked
>numbers are there because of the change to total computer records. There
>was a period in the 70's when the FAA required owners to respond to some
>request which if not complied with would result in a revoking of the
>N-number. The FAA agent said there is a possibility that planes are flying
>with revoked numbers and the owners don't even know it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
Corsair say it ain't so...
I wonder how could anyone be worried about wasted bandwidth for your
inspirational posts when I think of all the bits blasted over what type of
primer to use? I managed to endure the infamous "primer" thread in large
part due to the inspiration and joy provided by digesting your prose. If
you leave the list you must promise to put me on an email list that receives
your thoughts when the muse strikes...
Heck its a nice day here - time to go put some more hours on the RV...
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 28V from 14V |
>
>I received a sufficient number of requests for info on running 28V gyros
>off a 14V electrical system that I felt it warranted a reply here.
.
.
.
.
>I hope this helps someone. It saved me about $700 on the price of a gyro
>and was a relatively quick and rewarding project. If you decide to go this
>route feel free to drop me a note if you have questions or need assistance.
>
>(Bob Nuckols: feel free to include this information in your very useful
>book on electrical systems if you are so inclined.)
>
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
>http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
I've recommended this same approach for several other builders
and built a power supply for one individual about two years ago.
Haven't heard from him so I presume he's happy with the result
or abandonded the project. In any case, this is a valid approach
to utilization of surplus and/or good-deal-28 gyros in 14v
airplanes.
I got involved in one of these projects about 5 years ago
when one of my builders was agonizing over the 14 vs. 28
question. He was about to go 28 because of some gyros
he'd enherited . . . rather than see him miss out on the
wealth of perfectly good automotive stuff, I suggested the
same step-up supplies.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
John Ammeter wrote:
> >
> >
> ><< This is my last post. I apologize to Matt for the waste of bandwidth
> > and for my posts that had no technical or other merit. I will leave the
> > list and retire >>
> The rich description of flying qualities of Van's aircraft has both technical
> merit and gives the warm fuzzies necessary to encourge builders to complete
> their projects.
> I think you would be shirking your responsibility as a lister to stop repaying
> the list for the information you have recieved with benifit of your continued
RV
> experience.
Joe Walker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gar Pessel <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
I want to powder coat some of the steel parts, particularly in high wear
areas. Anyone have any opinions pro or con about the following items:
slider canopy frame, rudder bars, control stick assembly, and gear legs. I
am painting the engine mount with variprime and white hi-temp engine paint
for ease of inspection, although I find it hard to believe that the massive
welds of such high quality could ever crack. Had a broken engine mount
once on my Cub, so I am spooky about that particular structure. It was
painted black and was only caught because the whole front cowl did a number
on start up. Gar Pessel, Fairbanks AK (empennage)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Hughes" <okeanos(at)email.msn.com> |
Sorry I didnt put it in the post but I'm building The 6a
I appreciate the responses from the list as to builders in the Montgomery
Alabama area and will do my best to contact all of them.
Back to the garage to squish some rivets.
:o)
Steve Hughes
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Using fiberglass for gear stiffening? |
It would appear that your terms are a little confused. The MOE is a numerical term
which allows the equaions of stress and deflection to solve. The units for MOE
are
usually expressed in Millions of PSI and don't really equate to anything other
than
relative stiffness. Wood is about 1.5 million PSI, Steel is about 29 million PSI,
etc.So, all things being equal steel is about 20 times stiffer than wood.
The problem using fiberglas to stiffen a gear leg is twofold. The fiber portion
of
the glass is way stiffer (high MOE) than just about anything. Secondly, the stress
is directly porportional to the distance of the material of concern in cross
section from the center of the gear leg, i.e., the top of the leg is in
compression, the bottom is in tension and the middle isn't stressed.
If you wrap the leg in fiberglas, the fiberglas is the fartherest from the neutral
axis and takes most of the stress. It also takes more stress in porportion due
to
the increased stiffness.
What this means is to stiffen the leg without breaking the glass you have to spiral
wrap it or some such. If you lay the matte of fiber aligning it with the major
axis
(length) of the gear leg, it will be too stiff and break unless you make it thick
enough to take all of the landing load. Wrapping the cloth allows the stress to
transfer through shear from wrap to wrap in the resin which is nowhere near as
stiff as the fibers.
Bending of the gear leg occurs when the yield point of the metal (elastic limit)
is
exceeded and does not relate directly to the fatigue ability of the metal. Contrary
to some of the postings I have read the gear legs should have an almost unlimited
life if the plane is landed as intended. Bending the legs means the plane hit the
ground way too hard or the metal of the legs was not properly heat treated. In
either case the legs should be straightened and re-heat treated if the metal was
intended to be heat treated in the first place.
The sag observed by RV owners is probably just metal creep common in car suspension
springs. Althought, some may be the result of too many hard landings.
There are many knowageable people who provide a wealth of information above and
beyond the services provided by Van's. Unfortunately, some of the information
offered on the list is by people who have limited knowledge about the topic. ANY
question concerning the structural safety of the plane such a gouges in the spar,
bent landing gear legs, cracks of a funny type anywhere should be addressed
directly to Van's first and whatever they say should go.
I apologize for the length of this response and my poor attempt to tranlate math
into English. If I had to use my usual methods of descriptive text this posting
would be 20 pages long and all listers would have changed channels.:^)
Joe Walker (P.E.)
Rebuilding Wreaked RV6
Houston, Texas
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I believe that if the legs are bending out of shape (deforming) under landing
> stresses, then their MOE (modulus of elasticity) has been exceeded which means
> their fatigue life will be exceedingly short. They will break very, very soon.
>
> If they are bending, they are not strong enough for the task.
>
> Maybe some materials scientist will comment - most of what I learned in college
> only lasted till final exams. In fact, some didn't last that long.
>
> hal
>
> > I'm thinking the legs may need straightening.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | another -8 leaves the earth... |
Listers:
'Corsair' I ain't, but here goes...
The RV-8 built by Mr Mark Goldberg (n95mf(at)aol.com) flew this morning in Austin
Texas. Most systems performed as expected- the alt decided it's breaker wasn't
quite big enough, the right wing is a wee bit heavy, she'd like a tiny rudder
tab, and the silly prop gov can't seem to make up it's mind. Pretty good, eh?
I'll say that bird sure likes the sky- it really wanted a roll or two. The
briefing by our chapter Flight Advisor helped me overcome this desire. Look
out on the next hop, tho.
I've flown the -4, the -6, and the Rocket. This ship feels much like the -4
(light and quick), except a bit heavier in pitch (this one has the 200 HP Lyc
and a c/s prop), and lighter on the rudder. Mark is using an engine purchased
from the supplier recommended by Van's, and I'd say that fella does a fine
job- it ran fine for the .5 hr I flew it! I'll make another hop after those
few squawks are taken care of. Mark or I will keep the list posted.
Mark and his helper did a fine job of constructing this one. Email Mark
directly for equipment and other type-specific questions....
Those of you building this model are really going to like this airplane. Keep
on drillin' and fillin'!
Check six!
Mark
HR2 285 hrs
RV-8 .5 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
Hey, you guys sending notes to Corsair. Are you sure he's getting
them? When I read the note from him, he was about to drop out right
then. Maybe you should be copying your notes him directly? Just a
thought. I could also be speaking out of turn. That's happened
before, I guess. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Working on the cowl)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 28V from 14V |
<02d001bdcc58$2b54ad80$1500a8c0@flight.ANAGRAPH>
At 01:49 PM 8/21/98, you wrote:
> I've recommended this same approach for several other builders
> and built a power supply for one individual about two years ago.
> Haven't heard from him so I presume he's happy with the result
> or abandonded the project. In any case, this is a valid approach
> to utilization of surplus and/or good-deal-28 gyros in 14v
> airplanes.
>
> I got involved in one of these projects about 5 years ago
> when one of my builders was agonizing over the 14 vs. 28
> question. He was about to go 28 because of some gyros
> he'd enherited . . . rather than see him miss out on the
> wealth of perfectly good automotive stuff, I suggested the
> same step-up supplies.
Glad to see you are hanging out here. I just discovered the mailing list
the other day myself. I finally have the electrical system, panel, radios,
and engine done on my RV-4. I hope to fly it again this weekend after a
2-year hiatus. Thanks for your help last year.
Got anything new in the pipeline? Sorry I missed you at Oshkosh this year.
Might you be thinking of coming to the new West Coast EAA fly-in at Castle
AFB at the end of September?
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
>
>I
>am painting the engine mount with variprime and white hi-temp engine paint
>for ease of inspection, although I find it hard to believe that the massive
>welds of such high quality could ever crack.
When I started my rebuild of the RV-4 1.9 years ago I sent the engine mount
out to be stripped and inspected. They discovered a crack in the bottom of
the mount where the gear leg slides into the mount. It was welded up,
machined down, then we welded on an additional band around the point where
the gear leg enters the mount to reinforce that area. Given the stresses
on the mount at that point I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
At that point in time the airframe had been flying for just about 10 years
and it had about 550 hours on it.
BTW, when I overhauled the engine in my Comanche last year I sent the mount
out to be stripped and inspected. We found a crack there too. Granted the
Comanche's mount is almost 40 years old and has almost 5,000 hours on it.
I guess the point is, if you have the engine out of the mount it is
probably a good time to do a good job inspecting the mount too. An engine
mount failure in flight could ruin your whole day. Considering that one
probably pulls more G's in an RV and that the mount has to carry the
landing gear loads as well as the engine loads, I would probably pay *more*
attention to the engine mount than I might with other aircraft.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Gummo <tgummo(at)orion.csci.csusb.edu> |
I got a can of the new "proseal" Thiokol MC236 B-2 from Vans.
Does anybody know what the set up time is?
If mixed 10 to 1 (according to the directions) , how long does one have to
work before it is no longer good. There are no instructions on the can
but how to mix.
Thanks in advance,
Working on the tanks,
Closing the wings,
Looking to use a WWII paint scheme,
BTW, does anybody know how to paint "bullet holes" to hide
some dinks caused by my riveting technique?????
Tom
Thomas L. Gummo
Major, USAF Retired, Society of Wild Weasels # 1573
http://web.csusb.edu/public/csci/tgummo/home.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap question |
Patrick Kelley wrote:
>
>
> Jerry, it is difficult to comment without seeing your problem first
> hand. I checked my flaps, and a ruler does not find them flat either,
> but the bottom skin back to the overlap is ruler flat and the trailing
> edge between the overlap and the bend is flat, too. The divergence at
> the overlap is slight and attributable to the overlap itself. Without
> the ruler I cannot see it. If this is the extent of your observation, I
> don't think you have a problem to worry about.
>
> As far as the push to get it to lay flat, I did not have that problem.
> I had to push the skin up on the ribs slightly to get the proper
> fore/aft alignment, but this did not spread the skin very much and was
> only about a 1/4 inch press to make it lie flat again. If your problem
> was similar but more excessive, then you may have had to build your
> flaps too short (fore/aft). This could be due to excessive distance
> from the wing rear spar to the edge of the wing skin where the flap
> attaches, or too much gap between the wing and flap skins at the hinge.
> Again, without looking at your project, this is just speculation. All I
> can say for sure is that my wing kit, delivered about 3 years ago, had
> the flap top skin bent correctly and there was no difficulty in fitting
> it. Getting someone to look at your project will probably a) assure you
> that the flap is just fine anyway and b) help you decide what went wrong
> so you can avoid the hassle should you build another.
>
> PatK - RV-6A
>
> jerry calvert wrote:
> >
> > This flap trailing edge is really bugging me! I haven't attached the
> > top skin to the bottom skin yet, but I have dry fitted to see how
> > everything lines up. It takes quite a push to get the top skin to lay
> > down on the bottom skin at the overlap joint. Seems that once it is all
> > riveted and a ruler was layed perpendicular to spar on the bottom of the
> > flap, it would not lay flat! Has anyone noticed that the bottom of your
> > flap is not flat????
>
Patrick,
Thanks for the response. Evidently, the skin is not bent as much as in
the past because it takes some effort to make it lay down for drilling
to the botton skin. My spar to trailing edge is right on at 10 1/2" so
everything measures good. It may be a different story once riveted, but
when I press the top skin down to meet the bottom skin and lay a ruler
from spar to trailing edge, there is about a 3/32" gap under the ruler.
Ofcourse, some of this is due to the lap joint. Seems that the lap
joint will always be under tension because of the "spring back" pressure
of the top skin.
I'm going to put a little more bend in it and be done with it!!
Thanks
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Steve Hughes wrote:
>
>
> Hello folks,
> Im new to the list.
> Been lurking for over a year but just purchased tools and an empennage kit
> at Oshkosh.
> Now i have finished converting the garage to a shop and have the jig and
> workspaces built.
> My question is Are there any builders near Montgomery Alabama who might from
> time to time offer advice or assistance.
> My address is
>
> Steve Hughes
> 102 Travis Ridge
> Deatsville, Alabama
>
> Deatsville is approximately 15 miles north of Montgomery
> I live three miles from the Wetumpka Alabama airport
> Thanks in advance
> U may reply off list at
> okeanos(at)msn.com
>
Welcome aboard Steve. Van's should has a builders list for your area
available upon request. That may help.
Good luck on the project
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
Alright..alright..I shall return...May I thank the many great pilots and
builders out there who wrote and who felt that sometimes stories help give
them a boost to get that RV done. What a band of brothers we are ! What a
lot of great names I see who have given all of us some useful stuff to
help us along. At this time, I have about 154 posts that I have saved from
people who have taught me things I would not have known otherwise. Most of
this is too good to lose into cyberspace and is in fact never obsolete.
I have been flying since I was 17, but am really a low time pilot by
any measure. I had more enthusiasm than money. I would go out to the field
on my day off even though I was rained out, I loved to look at the
airplanes tied out there just beyond the windows and watch the rain run in
rivulets down the chord of the wings. Still no flying that day, but I would
go out and climb in and sit and just smell the smells of aircraft. When I
was young and a bit stupid, I would walk to the fence and stand behind the
airliners of the day as they started up their big radials one by one. The
props would turn over slowly and there was a puff of smoke and a few licks
of flame which cleared to peacock blue at dusk. The props would turn faster
and blow all that cloud of oil smoke back to me as I stood in the
slipstream hanging onto the fence and then it was clear and all four
engines were just roaring silver discs and they would taxi out and my hair
would sit back down again. I loved it all...I don't know why, but I love to
fly when the VFR is at minimums. Not many others up, rain running uphill on
the windscreen, respect and awe for what you see of nature outside the
1/8th " plexi that keeps you warm and dry. These days I would practice my
forced landings in an era when there was lots of space and no class
airspace.
I would glide deadstick down to a pasture and when I could wait no
longer, push in full throttle and climb away, just over the heads of the
poor cows who were so startled that they gave chocolate milk for 2 days. I
was good....except when I was so full of myself that I forgot my call sign,
landed the wrong way, fast, in a rainstorm, and caused a Hercules to wait
his departure for me. Ah youth ! Tower asked me in for a visit that day.
No tea,... just conversation. When RVs came along, I knew a thoroughbred
when I saw it, and although she likes to run with the bit in her teeth, and
I am a much older rider by now, I thank God and my lucky stars that I have
been along for the ride and also for the opportunity that RVs have provided
for me to come in touch with such a fine bunch of Rvers.
People like you all are what make the journey here all the more worthwhile.
I'd like to fly along with you, and if , when you are up there, and you
look out at 7 o'clock, you just may see a fast RV beginning to form up on
you. I'll waggle my wings and salute you, bank gently down and away where
you will lose me among the patchwork of greens and browns, and yellows, I
will now be hard to see for you are traveling too fast, but I,.. stick
back, waiting, waiting, see the green blur of the turf as it rises up to
meet me and RV. I'll feel the grasp of Mother earth as we roll out and
wend our way home. The geese look at us with some disdain as all our flying
is over for this day. Home again, feeling like an aviator and away for the
night. The geese...Rv.... and me.... deep in the arms of Morpheous.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dshenk(at)ruralhealth.org (Doug Shenk) |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
Unfortunately I signed on too late to read any of the "How to fly an RV" series.
As I reflect on the daunting project ahead (just starting on a RV-6A empennage
kit) I could use any visions of what lies ahead. Is anyone willing to send me
any
of these posts they might have saved?
Doug Shenk, new RV guy
Terrence C. Watson wrote:
>
> How come every time I erase a bunch of RV list posts off my disc, a larger
> percentage of the remaining ones were written by Corsair? Maybe it's
> because as we resolve each little technical problem, the vision that keeps
> us motivated is the one Corsair puts words to. This list would be much less
> satisfying without his contributions.
>
> Terry Watson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe <joe(at)mcione.com> |
Any rv builders in the Gatlinberg TN area. Please reply to
joe(at)mcione.com
Joe/fuselage RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Automated N-number lookup utility |
Don Corbitt wrote:
"Likewise, if anyone else uses these results to get an ID, let me know if it
was truly available or not. I'd like to know how many of the 'available'
IDs really are."
Don,
I searched for ??RC. The "RC" is for my fathers name, whom I owe everything (including
that NEW 0-360 sitting in the garage, THANKS DAD!!!).
The search came back with 13RC, 23RC, 39RC, 47RC, 60RC, 66RC, 79RC. I ruled out
13RC (just call me superstitious) and called the FAA registry. 23RC was revoked,
39RC was issued to an aircraft, 47RC was suspended, 60RC was reserved, 66RC
was revoked and 79RC was suspended. The lady I was talking to said to go
ahead and request any of the revoked or suspended numbers, and they would see
what the problem was and issue the number if possible.
I'll post what the results were when I get confirmation from the FAA
Don, thank you very much for the service you provided.
Laird Owens, So Cal
RV-6 #22923 working fuel lines/selector stuff (boy, that Andair selector is cool!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
In a message dated 8/21/98 5:42:31 Central Daylight Time, sears(at)searnet.com
writes:
<< Hey, you guys sending notes to Corsair. Are you sure he's getting
them? When I read the note from him, he was about to drop out right
then. Maybe you should be copying your notes him directly? >>
I tried to send Austin an off the list note today. Evidently he's already
pulled the plug. Sorry he did that. I rather enjoyed reading him.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Blah ba Blah wrote:
>
>
> Hello Gentlemen; can someone tell me the width of the metal part of the
> seat belt that bolts to the seat belt brackets. It actually bolts between
> the brackets. Thanks, Dave , RV-6A fuseage.
>
Dave
The hooker harness seat belts that I am using have a sleeve in the
metal part that the bolt goes through, it's 5/16 of an inch wide.
It was wider than the brackets and made for a ruff time getting them
in.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes |
Marty, now that you've brought this up, I hope someone also has an
explanation of why there would be different specs on my two drill indexes
that show drill, tap, and body for different screw sizes. I generally use
the smaller of the two, particularly for tapping aluminum, and maybe that is
correct, but I don't know.
Les Williams/RV-6A/Tacoma WA
>
>Listeners: What is the correct hole size for a 6-32 screw
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Screw hole sizes |
Thanks for all who replied to the RV-list! I think I'm out of the woods
and into the Light!.
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, August 20, 1998 11:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Screw hole sizes
>
>
><< Listeners: What is the correct hole size for a 6-32 screw? I am trying
to
> install the 6-32 nutplates and would like to know the final screw hole
size
> for a dimpled nut plate accepting a 6-32 screw. Are there charts one can
> refer to for this information as I'd bet there are other screw sizes where
I
> will need to know the hole diameter. Of course I could just mic the screw
> and drill accordingly, but inquiring minds want to know. Thanks. >>
>
>This is from a chart I used at Lockheed:
>
>2-56 screw clearance hole = .09375" = 3/32" or #41 drill
>4-40 screw clearance hole = .12500" = 1/8" or #30 drill
>6-32 screw clearance hole = .15625" = 5/32" or #22 drill
>8-32 screw clearance hole = .18750" = #13 or 3/16" drill
>10-32 screw clearance hole = .20313" = 13/64" or #6 drill
>
>Bolts are structural and the requirements of the a/c plans and manual
should
>be followed, as each fastening has individual requirements that influence
the
>class of fit required.
>
>-GV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes |
________________________________________________________________________________
finished thread size is a little less than the overall shank size. Anyone
have the definitive answer?
-----Original Message-----
| From: | Leslie B. Williams <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes |
>
>Marty, now that you've brought this up, I hope someone also has an
>explanation of why there would be different specs on my two drill indexes
>that show drill, tap, and body for different screw sizes. I generally use
>the smaller of the two, particularly for tapping aluminum, and maybe that
is
>correct, but I don't know.
>
>Les Williams/RV-6A/Tacoma WA
>
>
>>
>>Listeners: What is the correct hole size for a 6-32 screw
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Tom,
It's been quite a while since I did any pro-sealing, but if memory serves
me correctly you should have at least 2 hours working time with a 10 to 1
mix. You'll probably find that no two batches will come out exactly the
same. Temp and humidity do seem to have some effect on the set time. Wear
old clothes, and have fun, It's not really all that bad.
Joe Rex
Putting all the expensive stuff in fuselage-4
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Gummo +ADw-tgummo+AEA-orion.csci.csusb.edu+AD4-
Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 5:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: proseal
+AD4-
+AD4-I got a can of the new +ACI-proseal+ACI- Thiokol MC236 B-2 from Vans.
+AD4-Does anybody know what the set up time is?
+AD4-If mixed 10 to 1 (according to the directions) , how long does one have to
+AD4-work before it is no longer good. There are no instructions on the can
+AD4-but how to mix.
+AD4-
+AD4-Thanks in advance,
+AD4-
+AD4-Working on the tanks,
+AD4-Closing the wings,
+AD4-Looking to use a WWII paint scheme,
+AD4-
+AD4-BTW, does anybody know how to paint +ACI-bullet holes+ACI- to hide
+AD4-some dinks caused by my riveting technique?????
+AD4-
+AD4-Tom
+AD4-Thomas L. Gummo
+AD4-Major, USAF Retired, Society of Wild Weasels +ACM- 1573
+AD4-http://web.csusb.edu/public/csci/tgummo/home.html
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
--
+AD4- +AHw- Visit the Matronics +ACY- RV-List Web Sites at http://www.matronics.com
+AHw-
+AHw-
+ACI-rv-list-request+AEA-matronics.com+ACI- +AHw-
+AD4- +AHw- +ACY- put the word +ACIAWw-un+AF0-subscribe+ACI- in the +ACo-body+ACo-.
No other text or
subject. +AHw-
+AHw-
+AHw-
+AD4-
--
+AD4-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Screw hole sizes |
GV,
Those sizes seem pretty large if you compare the #19 for an 8-32 that is
called out in the RV plans. My drill indexes list the body size for 8-32 as
#18 & #19, for a 6-32 as #27 or #28, and so on. I would presume that if no
size is specified in the plans, one would use such a source as this?
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
><< Listeners: What is the correct hole size for a 6-32 screw? I am trying
to
> install the 6-32 nutplates and would like to know the final screw hole
size
> for a dimpled nut plate accepting a 6-32 screw. Are there charts one can
> refer to for this information as I'd bet there are other screw sizes where
I
> will need to know the hole diameter. Of course I could just mic the screw
> and drill accordingly, but inquiring minds want to know. Thanks. >>
>
>This is from a chart I used at Lockheed:
>
>2-56 screw clearance hole = .09375" = 3/32" or #41 drill
>4-40 screw clearance hole = .12500" = 1/8" or #30 drill
>6-32 screw clearance hole = .15625" = 5/32" or #22 drill
>8-32 screw clearance hole = .18750" = #13 or 3/16" drill
>10-32 screw clearance hole = .20313" = 13/64" or #6 drill
>
>Bolts are structural and the requirements of the a/c plans and manual
should
>be followed, as each fastening has individual requirements that influence
the
>class of fit required.
>
>-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV [not!] |
22>
<199808211818.OAA29954(at)mailman.fore.com>
<199808211818.OAA29954(at)mailman.fore.com>
Well, I can tell you how *NOT* to learn to fly an RV. Well, maybe it isn't
so bad because it is how I learned and I lived to tell about it but it
probably isn't the optimum way to do the job.
Those of you who live in the Southern California area may even know my
airplane. It was built by Glenn Whitely at Cable Airport. N780GW was his
personal airplane, finished and flown for the first time in 1987. Glenn
was a one-man RV factory. I have no idea how many he built but it was a
fair number. I know that RV-3's, 4's, and 6's came out of his hangar. He
also helped many builders with their own RVs.
When I would fly down to Cable to visit my father and friends down there,
Glenn would let me park my Grumman Tiger at his hangar. I would hang out
there lusting after one of the RVs he was building (there always seemed to
be at least three in various stages of completion). He had an
almost-completed RV-4 that I kept pestering him about (its owner had died
just before the airplane was ready for sign-off) but he kept putting me off
telling me that I would really rather have an RV-6. (No Glenn, I *really*
wanted an RV-4.)
Those of you who knew Glen knew he was a smoker, a really heavy smoker.
One day we noticed that he wasn't smoking anymore but he wouldn't answer
any questions so we quit asking. We suspected that something wasn't right
but Glenn just kept on drinking coffee and eating lunch in the Cable Cafe
and working on airplanes in his hangar so we sort of forgot about it.
About two months later, Glenn was dead. Lung cancer had gotten him. One
day he cleaned up his shop, put his affairs in order, and didn't wait for
the cancer to finish its work. My father called me to tell me the sad news.
About a week later my father called again and opened the conversation with
a comment something like, "Well, you wanted an RV-4 and now you have one.
Come down next week to check it out. And, by the way, don't forget to
bring to pay for it." No, I didn't have and neither did my fateher but Glenn's son had mentioned that he
wanted to sell his father's RV-4 and my father made the deal right then and
there. Somehow I managed to come up with the money. (My kids weren't
going to go to College for at least a year so I would deal with that
problem when it came up.)
Since I had never flown a taildragger before I quickly searched out someone
who could give me instruction and give me a taildragger sign off. I found
one and then proceded to do structural testing of the Citabria's landing
gear. I learned to hate heel brakes but both Citabria and I somehow
survived long enough for the instructor to endorse my logbook.
In the mean time my father was in the process of building a new elevator
for the RV-4. Seems that some hot-shot military pilot had flown with Glenn
and decided to do a split-S out of cruise (this is a no-no in any RV). As
I understand it, six Gs and 100 mph past redline later, the left elevator
had a spanwise crack at the trailing edge about 1/3 the width of the
elevator. (Yes, RV-4's are very strong but you don't need to prove it
too.) It wasn't really structural and a friend had even flown the airplane
for Glenn's memorial service but neither my father nor I were comfortable
with the crack so he had a new elevator built.
Well, we were planning to go to Oshkosh '96 in our Comanche but, at 2300
hours, one of the jugs lunched a ring. The Comanche wasn't going anywhere
until it got an overhaul so now we didn't have an airplane with which to go
to Oshkosh. Or did we? There was the RV-4 sitting there, albeit sans
elevator. So on Saturday morning I proceeded to install the new elevator.
By 10 PM that night, and with the help of people who were actually
competent, the elevator was installed and balanced. One of the guys
helping also had an RV-4 and he promised to check me out in it the
following morning.
Well Sunday dawned clear and clean, or at least as clear as it gets in Smog
City in the summer. I went out at the appointed time but no check-out
pilot. I waited for awhile but it looked like I wasn't going to get any
check out. I wandered around until I found someone else with an RV-4 from
whom I could get the necessary wisdom. My checkout then consisted of the
words, "there's the carb heat, turn it on on the ground; fly final at 70
kts." I then climbed in, taxied out, and took off. I flew over to the
practice area for some stalls and slow flight before returning to Cable. I
made three landings, none of which resulted in any permanent damage, loaded
up my 9-year-old son, who at this time is absolutely convinced that RV-4s
are the coolest airplanes in the world, and flew home to Cameron Park (near
Sacramento).
That night my father flew up (commercial). The next morning (monday) I did
a weight and balance (we were at the aft CG limit) and then he and I
climbed into the RV-4 and flew off to Oshkosh '96.
Some of you may remember the two guys with the solid blue RV-4 who
obviously didn't know jack about Van's airplanes. Heck, they weren't even
smart enough to screw a couple of eyebolts into the wings for the tie down
lines. That was us.
But we managed. Between July and the end of September 1996 I put about 70
hours on that airplane. Flying from Livermore to Cameron park one day, the
exhaust system disintegrated forcing me to land at Lodi. (Those of you who
are Credence Clearwater fans may begin singing, "Oh Lord, Stuck in Lodi
Again.") Other than bits and pieces of exhaust system sitting in the
bottom of the cowl, there was no serious damage. The next day I called
Van's and ordered a new 4-pipe exhaust system. It arrived the following
day. I hiked back out to Lodi, did a quick-and-dirty installation, and
flew the bird back to Cameron Park. Since I was replacing the old
crossover exhaust with a straight-pipe exhaust I needed to build a new
airbox, change the scoop, etc., etc. The compression was pretty low on one
cylinder so I decided, at the suggestion of an overwhelming number of folks
down at Cable who knew the airplane, to overhaul the 2,600 hour engine.
And that brings me up to today. The RV-4 hasn't flown since that ferry
flight from Lodi back in September of 1996. Tomorrow I expect to have the
work all finished: new cowl, new spinner, new airbox, new exhaust, new
hot-rod engine, new electrical system, new panel, new instrumnts, new
radios, and new seats. I am looking forward to finding out that it still
flys just as good as I remember, maybe better. I'll let you know on Monday.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
The thickness of typical TSO end hardware is about .125". The Mil hardware
that Hooker and some others use is wider as previously indicated.
Dan Morris
Morris Technologies, Inc.
Schroth Seatbelts for RV's
>> Hello Gentlemen; can someone tell me the width of the metal part of the
>> seat belt that bolts to the seat belt brackets. It actually bolts between
>> the brackets. Thanks, Dave , RV-6A fuseage.
>>
>
>Dave
>The hooker harness seat belts that I am using have a sleeve in the
>metal part that the bolt goes through, it's 5/16 of an inch wide.
>It was wider than the brackets and made for a ruff time getting them
>in.
>
>Craig Hiers
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Faulty voltage regulator |
>Return-Path:
>From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
>Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:16:36 EDT
>To: nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com
>Subject: Faulty voltage regulator
>
>Bob,
>
>God bless you and your crowbar overvoltage module. Yesterday, my RV-8
>(N801RV) with only 48 hours ttsn, popped its 5 amp. alt. field circuit
>breaker. I reset it and watched the volt meter. After about 5 seconds, I
>observed the voltage passing 15 volts and climbing. The breaker tripped
>again. I did not reset it again. I ran down to the Advance Auto this
morning
>and purchased a new voltage regulator. After 10 minutes and $9.95 I was back
>in the air with no damage to the avionics. All is back to normal now.
>
>Regards,
>Louis Smith
>A very happy customer!!!
>
Some days are VERY GOOD days . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 28V from 14V |
<3.0.5.32.19980820181218.009627c0(at)158.222.8.12>
<02d001bdcc58$2b54ad80$1500a8c0@flight.ANAGRAPH>
>
>Got anything new in the pipeline? Sorry I missed you at Oshkosh this year.
> Might you be thinking of coming to the new West Coast EAA fly-in at Castle
>AFB at the end of September?
Missed OSH ourselves . . . although I DO have a sign that hung over
an empty booth at OSH that say's AEROELECTRIC CONNECTION on it!
We reserved a booth early on and canceled a few months before the
show. They gave us our money back but forgot to reschedule the
booth. Had we showed up to use it, I probably could have had it
for free!
Got a turnkey wirekit we'll have at OSH next year and will have installed
in one or more show planes at Sun-n-Fun next year. I'm claiming that
I can install 95% of an electrical system in 3 hours. We'll see . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
Gar Pessel wrote:
>
>
> I want to powder coat some of the steel parts, particularly in high wear
> areas. Anyone have any opinions pro or con about the following items:
> slider canopy frame, rudder bars, control stick assembly, and gear legs. I
> am painting the engine mount with variprime and white hi-temp engine paint
> for ease of inspection, although I find it hard to believe that the massive
> welds of such high quality could ever crack.
Gar: I powder coated all the steel parts in the kit and some of the aluminum parts
too - rudder pedals & brakes.
It came out real nice and is a great way to finish a part quickly. Make sure that
you tape off areas that you do not want coated because it is very hard to sand
off
the paint. I used Epoxy light gray - I figured that the color was light enough
to
spot any failures but dark enough to look classy :-)
DGM - RV-6 final fitting the wings ( Anyone know how much of the rear spar to
remove to move the leading edges back 1/2" ?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com> |
Tom:
Re: proportions. It's 10: 1 by weight, but about 13: 1 by volume.
My experience has been:
Set up time and "open time" vary with temperature (hotter = shorter). Plan
on 90 minutes to work with it in a 90 degree workshop. Set up time is about
24 hours on a warmish day, several days in cold winter conditions.
George #80006
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Gummo <tgummo(at)orion.csci.csusb.edu>
Date: Friday, August 21, 1998 6:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: proseal
>
>I got a can of the new "proseal" Thiokol MC236 B-2 from Vans.
>Does anybody know what the set up time is?
>If mixed 10 to 1 (according to the directions) , how long does one have to
>work before it is no longer good. There are no instructions on the can
>but how to mix.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Working on the tanks,
>Closing the wings,
>Looking to use a WWII paint scheme,
>
>BTW, does anybody know how to paint "bullet holes" to hide
>some dinks caused by my riveting technique?????
>
>Tom
>Thomas L. Gummo
>Major, USAF Retired, Society of Wild Weasels # 1573
>http://web.csusb.edu/public/csci/tgummo/home.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: powder coating |
I powder coated much of the interior of my RV, and was concern about those
areas that would get alot of bumping on a regular basis. However I did have
the motor mount done and inspect it regularly. I didn't do the gear legs, but
did prime and paint for rust proofing. The problem you WILL have is anywhere
things fit tight. The powder coat will have to come off, and it's tough
stuff. Also I was able to get cans of regular spray paint the same color
through the people who did the powder coat and this was very handy for the
other areas being finished. Good Luck!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | tool of the month |
Dear Listers,
Today I was so pleased with the new angle drill that I bought last year
from Avery that I thought that I should share this infromation with you. I
am building an RV8 and have it 90% completed. I alays try to buy a new
tool every year that is neat that I may not really need but really want.
Such was the case for the Pan AMerican air driven right anle close quarter
drill that I bought from Avery. I knew that it would be handy, but I never
realized how many times that it would save the day. If will reach in at
least 8 inches and will with a short bit fit into a 1 1/4" space. I have
found it to be invaluable. It has saved the day many times by allowing me
to get into hard to get spots and drill perfect holes. Today was one more
example. I fitted the wheel pants on my RV8. It is necessary to drill the
first attach holes from the inside out if you want a perfect fit. My angle
drill made short work of this job. It fit very nicerly inbetween the axle
nut and the wheel and allowed me to drill the initial very important holes
in the 808 bracket to obtain the initial alignment of the wheel pants.jjj
Cheap tools are always disappointment - - good tools last a life time and
always work ! !
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
80124 running out of parts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Screw hole sizes |
writes:
<< Those sizes seem pretty large if you compare the #19 for an 8-32 that is
called out in the RV plans. My drill indexes list the body size for 8-32 as
#18 & #19, for a 6-32 as #27 or #28, and so on. I would presume that if no
size is specified in the plans, one would use such a source as this? >>
The diameters I indicated are not body sizes, but are clearance holes for the
screw sizes mentioned and assume holes are .005" from true position in each
part. Obviously single holes can be held tighter than can a pattern of holes.
Screw body sizes are 2-56 (.082-.086"), 4-40 (.1072-.112"), 6-32
(.1326-.138"), 8-32 (.1586-.164") and 10-32 (.1846-.190").
Like I said at the end of my posting, bolts are structural and require
different clearances depending on class of fit required. For more info on
these fits, see Machinery's Handbook under ANSI standard fits.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Balancing elevator after painting...adding lead! |
Hello listers,
I did a dumb thing and balanced to the gnat's eyebrow before painting and
did not leave extra lead in place for the paint.
Any clever ways to add weight after painting?
Thank you,
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Balancing elevator after painting...adding lead! |
In a message dated 8/22/98 4:09:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us writes:
> I did a dumb thing and balanced to the gnat's eyebrow before painting and
> did not leave extra lead in place for the paint.
I came up short on lead so I cast a one inch diameter lead weight using a
piece of aluminum tubing as mold. I drilled it for a number 8 screw and
drilled the existing counterweight for the screw as well. Countersink the
counterweight so the screw head will sit flush with the existing lead, of
course. It will require a long (> two inch) 8-32 flat head screw to go
through the existing lead and the new weight. You will also need a self
locking screw (I used a nylon insert type). The new cylindrical weight will
fit under the fiberglass tip. You could add a good chunk of lead this way.
Mark McGee
RV 4 Fuel Tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Seat hinges in riveting in a 6 |
I am putting the three rows of seat hinges in my 6. Looking at the plans, it
only looks as if you pop rivet the hinge at the seat rib intersections? I
would think that there should be some rivets in-between the seat ribs that
could be riveted in before the seat is in place (matching spacing to hinge
on seatback).
As is normal, forgot to contact Van's before the weekend.
What have others done?
Don Mack
RV-6A Fuselage
Ercoupe 415-D
donmack(at)flash.net
icq 16679225
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Malone <scottm(at)pld.com> |
| Subject: | ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
I HAVE USED ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES IN MY TOYOTA FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW AND
IT HAS WORKED GREAT, (NO MORE VALVE NOISE OR SMOKING). HAS ANYONE USED
IT, (PROLONG, SLICK-50, AVBLEND, ETC.) IN THEIR LYCOMING.
SCOTT MALONE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley removal |
Listers,
Mark LaBoyteaux kindly sent me pictures and text from his successful attempt to
modifiy a car alternator (60 amp) to accept an external voltage regulator. Price
of
alternator: $40.
I've posted the pictures and text to my web site,
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a .
My thanks to Mark for spending the time and effort to document this
modification.
Question for the group: how do you remove a pulley from an alternator? I'm not
sure which way the nut is to be turned (normal or reverse threads?), and I'm not
sure how to safely prevent the rotor from turning while I'm turning the nut. Any
thoughts?
Thanks,
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 28V from 14V |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> The finished converter seems to be able to source about 1.5A at 27V. Since
> the gyro only draws about .8A at that voltage, it looks like there is ample
> margin. The coverter gets only mildly warm (maybe 20 degree F temperature
> rise) in operation. The gyro seems to like it just fine and the whole mess
> has run for 24 hours on my work bench with no sign of trouble.
A word of caution here. I looked up D1 (the N-channel MOSFET) on both
Motorola's and Siliconix' web sites. They are 30 Volt MOSFETS. Runnning
the converter to output 27 volts, I suspect you'll measure spikes higher
than 30 volts across it. I'd suggest beefing up bothe N1 and D1 to 40 or
45 volt types, just like you increased the caps from 20 to 30 volts(36).
Also, note that in the spec sheet the rated output is 0.5 amps (although
both MOSFET and diaode should easily be able to handle more than that).
Also, per specs it runs at 300KHz, not 200KHz (nit-picking, I know).
Great idea, though!
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
Scott Malone wrote:
>
>
> I HAVE USED ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES IN MY TOYOTA FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW AND
> IT HAS WORKED GREAT, (NO MORE VALVE NOISE OR SMOKING). HAS ANYONE USED
> IT, (PROLONG, SLICK-50, AVBLEND, ETC.) IN THEIR LYCOMING.
>
> SCOTT MALONE
>
Scott
I had a Piper Pacer O-320 that I used Slick-50 in when it was approved for
aviation and at 2400 hrs it was still was not burning oil and had good
compression. It would also turn about 50 rpms more on static runup
after using it. It was expensive to use but my partner was a dealer
that's why we used it. I am very skeptical of all the magic oils but
it seemed to do well for us.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
removal
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Listers,
>
>
> modifiy a car alternator (60 amp) to accept an external voltage regulator. Price
of
> alternator: $40.
Why would you modify to an external regulator? Would not the solid state regulator
do
better if it were left on the alternator so as to reduce the amount of wiring harness
and voltage drop?
> Question for the group: how do you remove a pulley from an alternator?
Take the alternator to your local mechanic. Have him use an impact gun on the nut
-
counterclockwise to remove - and hold the pulley in his hand at the same time.
The nut
will come off very easily. The pulley should then slide off the shaft along with
various washers & spacers. Installation is just as easy - washers and spacers
as
needed, new pulley in place and hand thread the nut back on. With the assembly
finger
tight, hold the pulley in one hand while giving the nut a couple quick clockwise
turns
with the impact gun. I also like to use Locktite 242 on the threads to secure the
nut.
Hope this helps.
DGM - RV-6
Southern Alberta
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
> _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
> Tim Lewis
> N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
> Springfield VA
> http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
> timrv6a(at)iname.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
Jerry wrote
<< I used Slick-50 in when it was approved for
aviation and at 2400 hrs it was still was not burning oil >>
Question: when was Slick 50 approved for this use? Is it still?
buddies plan to use Prolong illegally in their Lycoming-powered spam because
of the fantastic infomercials they have seen on this stuff... Airport Urban
Legend has it that a n Alaskan bush pilot had a failure that pumped all his
oil overboard while over water and his engine ran almost an hour afterward.
The teardown afterward showed no damage and the Feds asked what was up. He
admitted he used Prolong at each oil change...
I admit it is tempting.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap question |
I just finished my my left flap and I too have a slight curviture in the
trailing edge. I attribute this to the large number of rivits that are attach
the bottom skin to the top at the bottom rear of the flap. All those rivits
represent a slight elongation of the bottom surface of the flap, due to
stretching of the skin- a result of setting all those rivets. There are no
corresponding rivets on the top side of the flap, hence the bottom surface is
slightly longer towards the rear, and the result is a slightly curved surface.
I too was concerned about it until I showed it to an experienced aircraft
sheetmetal guy who said that that the deformation slight enough to not be a
factor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
>Does anybody know what the set up time is?
>If mixed 10 to 1 (according to the directions) , how long does one
>have to
>work before it is no longer good. There are no instructions on the
>can
>but how to mix.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Working on the tanks,
>Closing the wings,
>Looking to use a WWII paint scheme,
>
>BTW, does anybody know how to paint "bullet holes" to hide
>some dinks caused by my riveting technique?????
>
>Tom
>Thomas L. Gummo
>Major, USAF Retired, Society of Wild Weasels # 1573
>http://web.csusb.edu/public/csci/tgummo/home.html
>
>
>
Tom just go a lettle at a time. Will Cretsingers notes are real good.
Don Jordan ~ 76DJ ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
removal
Tim, most alternator shafts ends are made to accept a hex key so that you
can hold it and use a wrench to loosen and tighten the nut. By looking at
the exposed threads you should be able to tell which way the nut turns to
tighten/loosen. To remove the pulley, I just hold it by hand and rap the
shaft with a wooden or plastic head hammer (above a table surface) . If it
is really stuck, try soaking with penetrating oil and put it in a vise to
hold it and use a little more persuasion.
>Question for the group: how do you remove a pulley from an alternator?
I'm not
>sure which way the nut is to be turned (normal or reverse threads?), and
I'm not
>sure how to safely prevent the rotor from turning while I'm turning the
nut. Any
>thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim
>_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
>Tim Lewis
>N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
>Springfield VA
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
>timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
remo...
I bought the Pelican alternator from Aircraft Spruce and it has worked well.
It is a 65 amp alternator from a Chevy Sprint Spectrum with an internal
voltage regulator and automatic overheat protection. If it overheats, it
shuts off the field until it cools and then reenergizes the field and starts
working again. It is very small and fits in the cowl with no problems. I
really like it and no modifications are required.
Jim Cone
RV-6A totaled by tornado
RV-6A QB coming soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noble, Jack S" <Jack.Noble(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Bolt and screw hole sizes |
>>From what I now know, the "body" size may be the shank size because
the
finished thread size is a little less than the overall shank size.
Anyone
have the definitive answer?>>
The shank size for the American Standard Number Series of Bolts is
always -
- Shank Dia = .0600 + .0130 x (Number)
e.g. .0600 for an 0-80
.1380 for a 6-32
.1640 for a 8-32
and .1900 for a 10-32.
Then if you have need of a good structural connection the hole should be
net to .003 over and if you don't need a good structural connection the
hole can be made up to 20% larger than the shank.
Jack Noble # 80719
Seattle WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
>
>I HAVE USED ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES IN MY TOYOTA FOR SEVERAL YEARS NOW AND
>IT HAS WORKED GREAT, (NO MORE VALVE NOISE OR SMOKING). HAS ANYONE USED
>IT, (PROLONG, SLICK-50, AVBLEND, ETC.) IN THEIR LYCOMING.
>
OH GOODY! I have been waiting for a thread I could sink my keyboard into
for months!
Oh yeah, BTW, editorial starts here:
Let us just for a moment lay aviation aside and concentrate on cars for a
minute, Does anyone really think that if Teflon would make your auto engine
last longer Detroit would not require its use and make the engine turn
faster, run hotter and be smaller?
I have heard all the arguments about the engine manufacturers wanting your
car to fall apart at 100,000 miles, but that just ain't true. Go to New
York and look at the odometers on Taxi Cabs, Many will have over 200,000
miles on them. I promise you they don't use any mouse milk in the motors.
What they do have is excellent maintenance. People who use additives have
less problems because those who spend the extra money for them also do good
maintenance.
When I buy additives to manufacture engine lubricants, the companies that
sell them will come to me with fleet test data in biggest fleets in the
country. These tests will involve hundreds of trucks over millions of miles
compared to a reference oil in a blind study. If it is a passenger car
motor oil package, the test will be run in New York City taxi fleets. I
have asked for, and never seen, a study that is statistically valid that
will prove any economic benefit from these products. When someone shows me
that kind of data, I will start listening.
Now let's move back to airplanes. I have said many times in this venue and
others that we need better lubricant technology. I would have no problem
with pouring something in if someone would develop some better technology
and charge a fair price for it. My guess is that we have little hope of
moving the LyCon's of the world to lobby the industry to develop better
technology because they will have to approve it. There is currently little
incentive for them to improve their product because their competition is not
moving either. Dr. Williams or Dr. Zoche may change all that but I doubt
it.
There is poor history for encouraging change in our industry, few have been
successful, mostly because no matter what we pilots say, we are a bunch of
hard headed conservative thinkers ( and not all of us are thinkers at all, I
am afraid). We accept new technology kicking and screaming (read plastic
airplanes and converted car engines). We all say we want better
performance, but when someone offers it we seldom embrace it. We find a
million things wrong with it and push it aside. (Ask Beech about the
Starship or Mooney about the Porsche)
Why is it then that when some snake oil peddler comes on the late night
tube, we can't find the credit card fast enough to buy his magic mystery
milk and pour it in our precious airplane? After we pour it in we love it.
Why? Because we have no way to prove it wrong. We have spent too much
money on this product and we want to believe. God forbid that we would tell
our friends that we wasted $49.95, so we see what we want to see. Our
airplane ran great before and it still does, Yipee! And I paid $49.95 for
that! If you had a fleet of 100 planes and split the fleet and did a blind
study and found "economic" benefit, then use it! But you won't, because if
you could they would be publishing statistically significant studies and
selling semi loads of it to oil formulators like me. Instead Joe Six-pack
tells stories about his big 4x4 on their infomercial and they sell it in 4
oz bottles.
If you want to make your airplane run without oil, there is an additive that
you can add to the oil that will allow it to run for some time at light
loads with out oil. Do you know how that additive effects piston deposits?
How does that additive behave when there is oil in your engine? What
compromise do you give up to achieve this perceived benefit?
The final scenario is this one, Maybe there is a product that actually does
have some merit. Maybe the oil companies are too scared to incorporate the
technology because they were burned by X/C II. I will agree to at least one
product that may have some merit in aircraft. They charge $29.95 for 4 oz.
of the stuff. If you change at 25 hrs and you plan a 2000 TBO that equals
80 oil changes @ $30, that totals $2400 or 15 to 20 percent of the overhaul.
What do I get for that? A better chance the engine will make TBO? Guess
what most of the ones that have good maintenance and are flown regular do.
Go to any flight school, they seldom overhaul one early. Will the additive
save you $2400 in parts? I think not. This is what I talked about earlier,
"economic benefit" It ain't there.
This next part ain't even editorial, this is just my opinion and it is just
as biased as Joe Six-packs endorsement on the bube tube:
Most additives will damage little more than your pocket book. Personally, I
would never put anything that had PTFE in an engine. I dumped some marvel
mystery oil in the gas of my Cessna 195 from time to time because it was
known widely to be a valve sticker. My gut feeling was that it worked, but
I can't prove it. If I had an unmodified O-320-H I would put the TCP in it
like Lycoming says. TCP probably won't hurt anything in any Lycoming, but
it doesn't cost $29.95 per change. There is one additive on the market that
has a secret formula like all of them and if it cost $9.95 instead of $29.95
per change I might use it. My gut also tells me that it has something a
lot like TCP in it.
In closing, one of the famous additives companies you listed was fined and
forced to stop most of their advertising claims. Why? Because they could
not prove them. I don' t think you can either.
So Scott, is all this more than you wanted to know? Probably. Are you sorry
you asked? I hope not.
Tailwinds,
Doug "sorry for the long post" Rozendaal, Oil Blender
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
P.S. Seriously, put what ever makes you happy in your airplane, because you,
are the most important person in it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes |
Jack, This seems more in line with what I've seen, what's on Van's plans,
and what I've used. Now I wonder if the specs GV has are for non-structural
items or for the hole sizes where the platenuts/ fasteners are mounted
rather than for the hole size in the material being fastened. This would
provide a lot easier bolt/screw insertion than would typically result when
using the standard shank sizes for both, particularly if the holes are not
in perfect alignment with the platenut, which in my case seems to be quite
often! I've had to enlarge more than a few platenut holes just to get the
bolts/screws to thread in properly.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/ Tacoma WA
>
>
>>>From what I now know, the "body" size may be the shank size because
>the
>finished thread size is a little less than the overall shank size.
>Anyone
>have the definitive answer?>>
>
>The shank size for the American Standard Number Series of Bolts is
>always -
>
>- Shank Dia = .0600 + .0130 x (Number)
>e.g. .0600 for an 0-80
> .1380 for a 6-32
> .1640 for a 8-32
>and .1900 for a 10-32.
>
>Then if you have need of a good structural connection the hole should be
>net to .003 over and if you don't need a good structural connection the
>hole can be made up to 20% larger than the shank.
>Jack Noble # 80719
>Seattle WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rad(at)pen.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 wing skin rivet sequence ? |
Howdy everyone,
I just finished riveting the leading edges to the spars on my RV-8 wings, and
was contemplating what to do next. The procedure calls for the tanks next, but
is there any reason I can't go ahead and rivet the top main skins on? I realize
that I need to countersink top side of the spar where the tank screws will go,
and cut out the overlap corner of the inboard skin where it sits over the flap.
Is there anything else I'm missing?
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
Kolb SlingShot N8754K (for sale)
RV-8, 80587 (putting off the tanks as long as possible)
rad(at)pen.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
remova
On 22 Aug 98, at 9:09, Douglas G. Murray wrote:
> Why would you modify to an external regulator? Would not the solid state
> regulator do better if it were left on the alternator so as to reduce the
> amount of wiring harness and voltage drop?
Doug,
There have been numerous threads regarding this topic. The reason I found
compelling is the ability to have overvoltage protection. With an internal
regulator there's no way I know of to reliably, instantaneously shut off the
alternator if the regulator malfs and you experience an overvoltage. I have a
fairly costly IFR panel, so it's worth the time and money to me to install an
external regulator ($45 or so from Van's) and an overvoltage protector (similar
amount, from Aeroelectric Bob).
Is it a small probability event? Yup. Would the consequences be devastating?
Yup.
Your advice regarding the impact wrench was spot on. Worked like a champ,
and counterclockwise is the correct direction for removing the nut on the Mazda
323 alternator.
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
remova
<< Why would you modify to an external regulator? Would not the solid state
regulator do
better if it were left on the alternator so as to reduce the amount of wiring
harness
and voltage drop? >>
Doug-
Haven't you been paying attention over the last 12 months? See archives or
visit Bob Nuckolls' site for the reasons.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
<< HAS ANYONE USED
IT, (PROLONG, SLICK-50, AVBLEND, ETC.) IN THEIR LYCOMING. >>
Scott-
Please turn off the CAPs. Thx. I use AvBlend (Lenckite) with straight 100W
AD oil in my new Lyc O-360 because the straight weights protect better than
multi-vis and AvBlend was recommended to me by Howard Fenton of Engine Oil
Analysis in Tulsa. I don't think there's anyone who knows more about oil used
in aircraft engines than Howard.
TBO advisor, Light Plane Maintenance and Aviation Consumer are overwhelmingly
negative regarding the PTFE containing additives (so is DuPont and they make
the PTFE). Microlon, I believe, is the only FAA approved one.
TCP oil additive was Tricresyl Phosphate but since it is carcinogenic, they
changed the formula to Triphenyl Phosphate (but kept the TCP tradename).
Triphenyl Phosphate (in AeroShell multi-vis) has been found to separate copper
flakes out of bearings and deposit them in screens and filters.
If you try any of these, let us know the empirical results. I've got 125 hrs
on my rig and everything runs as a fine watch.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Is there a phone number to call FAA and verify N number availability?
Thanks Don for this great utility!
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Bend over & shut up |
Hello everyone,
As I promised last week, here is the final outcome of the saga of the finish
kit that cost $624 to ship to Texas (approx. $350 more than it should have).
Despite some valiant efforts by some members of the RV List with connections
at Roadway we were not able to get anything worked out. For a while it looked
hopeful, but Roadway dug in their heels and said no discount. I got tired of
waiting and just paid the $624 in order to get back to building.
Everyone on this list, who still has kits to order, needs to know this - Vans
offered no assistance what-so-ever with this problem. The only way to protect
yourself is to make it very, very clear to them that they are not to ship you
anything without first confirming the shipping cost to you. If it is not
right, get it settled before shipping. I promise you that you will not get one
bit of assistance from Vans once they have their payment in hand. You can not
assume they will ship by the most economical means and, if you think they
will, it can cost you just like it cost me. Also don't assume you will get a
call if the shipping is 2-3 time what it should be. As a matter of fact I
asked them why they couldn't just pick up the phone and call a customer when
something was obviously out of line such as this. Their response, "We don't
have time to call to discuss shipping arrangements." Keep in mind, they are
spending your money on freight and have no incentive to shop for a good price.
Here is what we confirmed happened on this shipment. Apparently our zip code
is not a direct shipping point for Roadway who was the shipper. ABF would have
delivered for $250 to $300 since our zip is a direct shipping point for them.
I asked Vans why they didn't ship the finish kit ABF since it was so much
cheaper. Their reply was, "We alternate shippers." Looks like I got in the
wrong sequence! One thing that is so frustrating about the whole thing is that
even Roadway has direct shipping points within 5-6 miles of our location that
would have qualified for the same discounts we would have gotten from ABF. The
finish kit could have easily been shipped by ABF with no problem; by Roadway
it could have gone to a terminal or friend's house and given us the
opportunity to drive a couple of miles and pick it up with all the discounts
in place. Again, they are spending other people's money and there is no
incentive to shop around unless YOU make them. If you forget that, you will
get this response, "We ship FOB which means that once it leaves our shop, we
have nothing to do with it. Any dispute is between the customer and the
trucker." If Vans makes a mistake on your shipping their position will be WE
GOT OUR MONEY, WE CAN SHIP HOW WE PLEASE, TOO BAD IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE RATE
WE ACCEPTED FOR YOU. So much for customer service!
Well, there it is. It is ancient history to me, as I am now on the finish kit
and don't even want to think about the whole sorry affair any more. I
sincerely hope it benefits some other builders who still have kits to order.
Make them clarify everything prior to shipping and don't take any crap from
them. Check with other builders in your area and make sure you are getting
rates in the same ballpark. If not, make Vans work for your business by
exploring your options. Don't feel like you are wasting their time because
they will sure waste your money if you let them.
Lloyd Morris
RV-6, Starting finish kit
Lago Vista, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
You can shorten up the bushings or replace
the staked in ones with shorter ones.
rver273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M.Mckenna" <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap question |
Bktrub(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I just finished my my left flap and I too have a slight
> curviture in the
> trailing edge. I attribute this to the large number of
> rivits that are attach
> the bottom skin...
The curvature is present in the bottom skin to begin with. A
byproduct of the rear spar forming
operation I suppose. I'm building flaps on my RV-8 now. If I
discover a way to alleviate this
curve, I'll post the method.
Mike Mckenna (mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net)
Lawrenceville, Ga. (RV-8)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
Scott,
Just use Aeroshell 20-50 and you won't need
any additives. I do run some Marvel Mistry Oil
with the fuel every 3rd tank or so.
RVer273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
remo...
Tim,
check and see if the shaft has a allen hex
broached into it for holding. You should find
the thread direction is such that rotation
tends to tighten it.
RVer273sb Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John W. Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Bend Over and Shut Up. |
Instead of paying high shipping costs I took my pickup truck, drove out
to North Plains and picked up the kit myself. I used what would have
otherwise gone into some trucking company's pocket and had a nice
mini-vacation, enjoying the trip up the Columbia River, and back through
Oregon and Northern California. I don't think that meals, gas, motels,
etc, came even close to what shipping would have been. Also I knew that
there would be no damage enroute. Just a thought. BTW, you also get a
good look at Van's operation which I found interesting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing skin rivet sequence ? |
Russell;
I found it best to just stick to the exact order called for in the plans. If
you do it their way, you are guaranteed not to have any problems. If you do it
any other way, you never know, especially if it is your first rv. Why take
the chance?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bradley Kidder, Jr." <sparksnmagic(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Number |
22>
FAA Aircraft Registry office: (405)954-3116
Bradley W. Kidder, Jr.
sparksnmagic(at)earthlink.net
ICQ# 11770815
URGENT MESSAGES: pagekidder(at)bigfoot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Miller <pitts7(at)erols.com> |
jerry calvert wrote:
>
>
> Steve Hughes wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello folks,
> > Im new to the list.
> > Been lurking for over a year but just purchased tools and an empennage kit
> > at Oshkosh.
> > Now i have finished converting the garage to a shop and have the jig and
> > workspaces built.
> > My question is Are there any builders near Montgomery Alabama who might from
> > time to time offer advice or assistance.
> > My address is
> >
> > Steve Hughes
> > 102 Travis Ridge
> > Deatsville, Alabama
> >
> > Deatsville is approximately 15 miles north of Montgomery
> > I live three miles from the Wetumpka Alabama airport
> > Thanks in advance
> > U may reply off list at
> > okeanos(at)msn.com
> >
>
> Welcome aboard Steve. Van's should has a builders list for your area
> available upon request. That may help.
>
> Good luck on the project
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
Hello , My name is Rich and I just bought a kit this year in Oshlosh
also. Im boung to have lots of questions and will need alot of advice.
Im located in the lover corner of MD and my E-mail addreaa is
pitts7(at)erols.com
I would love to hear from you. Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DENNIS HART <dennishart(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
Old pros-
I have been following the rv list for several weeks and think it will
be a wonderful tool in assembling an RV-6A. Ever since a&p school about 10
years ago I have wanted to build an airplane and fly it. I decided on the
RV back then and just had to wait for the right time. Well- 10 years later
I think it is here. I have flown quite a bit with fellow workers but i have
never gotten my private ticket.
My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
build the RV-6A before I get a license? Is there any info or experience I
need to use in assembly that I can only get from flying or is the process
fairly straight forward? I am a sheet-metal mech. at a major airline and
would love the experience of building an RV.
My thought is that after I build the a/c I imagine I will have to wait
to be able to afford an engine. In this time I can get my ticket.
Is this idiotic thinking?
My apoligies that my post is not of a technical nature. I just figure
this would be the crowd with the best advice.
Anxious to build Dennis
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
I'm trimming my cardboard to fit the electric flap housing sides. The
floorboards
are not exactly flat how do you follow the curvature. The sides are already
bent that screw down on floors. Any help?
Regards Mike Comeaux
RV6QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
In a message dated 8/22/98 5:40:30 Central Daylight Time, dougr(at)petroblend.com
writes:
<< Tailwinds, Doug "sorry for the long post" Rozendaal, Oil Blender
dougr(at)petroblend.com >>
So Doug, why don't you tell us how you really feel?
Most people don't know that with regular maintenance, and frequent oil changes
with the recommended product, there are a lot of engines out there, automotive
or aviation that will more than make TBO, or a specified number of miles.
Change your oil and your filter regularly, and your engine will work as
advertized. Don't, and it will let you down. In airplanes, letting you down
can have some serious ramifications. In automobiles, at least you have the
shoulder of the road.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap question |
In a message dated 8/20/98 10:55:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
calverjl(at)flash.net writes:
> It takes quite a push to get the top skin to lay
> down on the bottom skin at the overlap joint.
Jerry,
I just finished drilling my first flap for my RV-8 today, and found the
following:
-- The trailing edge of my top skin needed to be bent more to lay down
properly on the bottom skin. I used the 2x8 wood bending jig used for the
elevators and rudder.
-- The pre formed rear spar on the bottom flap skin has a built in "bow",
apparently from the forming process. I was able to get virtually all of the
bow out by GENTLY bending the skin/ spar in the opposite direction. Take it
very slowly if you use this approach; you could easily kink the spar.
Good luck
Tom
San Antonio
Flying RV-4, N153TK...735 hours
Amazed at how much quicker the pre punched RV-8 goes together compared to the
-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes |
In a message dated 8/22/98 5:55:31 Central Daylight Time,
lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com writes:
<< if the holes are not in perfect alignment with the platenut, >>
Under what conditions would this be acceptible?
Just learning.
Regards
Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
In a message dated 8/22/98 9:33:26 Central Daylight Time, SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com
writes:
<< make Vans work for your business by exploring your options. Don't feel like
you are wasting their time because they will sure waste your money if you let
them. >>
Van's doesn't have to work for my money. They've long since done that. If they
told me that Federal Express was my best bet for shipping, I'd accept that.
Expensive I know, but then you get what you pay for.
If Roadway decides to charge you extra, because you are 6 mile outside their
shipping zones, your problem is with Roadway, not Van's.
Lighten up!!! Get a grip!! Finish your airplane, then enjoy.
Regards
Wendell (I work for Federal Express) WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
remova
>
>
> Doug-
>
> Haven't you been paying attention over the last 12 months? See archives or
> visit Bob Nuckolls' site for the reasons.
>
> -GV
>
>
Sorry for the question. I am a fairly new lister and have been spending too much
time in the workshop riveting I suppose. I was always taught the KISS principle
and since I work on these alternators every day - for the last 25 years - and
most problems with the regulator cause an under charge problem I was just curious
to see why you would need to go to all the trouble to redesign a great product.
DGM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Jerry wrote
>
> << I used Slick-50 in when it was approved for
> aviation and at 2400 hrs it was still was not burning oil >>
>
> Question: when was Slick 50 approved for this use? Is it still?
>
I should have been a little more explicit I guess, the bottles used to
say on them approved for aviation use, this was late 70's early 80's.
Now whether FAA or any engine manufacture approved it I can't say.
As I said earlier my cousin was my partner in a Piper Pacer and also a
dealer for Slick-50 and had the little gas engine that would run all
day without oil in it, pretty impressive. We always took good care of
our aircraft engine so the long life it lived may have been from just
that alone.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew J. Leary" <mjleary(at)elitesys.com> |
| Subject: | Interference between HS614 and skin |
Have noticed that the HS614 protrudes slightly beyond the edge of the channel,
causing the skin not to
be able to lie flat against both members (I am just over the 3 1/4" separation
of the 610 and the 614,
I'm afraid). Looking at the drawing showing the attachment between the HS and the
fuselage
longerons, it SEEMS like the edge of the 614 is just hanging over the fuselage
and (presumably) not
adding any additional structural strength.
I am considering shortening/grinding down the 614 as per someone else's message
on this list a
couple of years ago, but I can't find anything (even on the sweet new Matronics
search engine!) on
any responses to him. Can anyone who is far enough along to know tell me about
how this outboard
part of the 614 plays into the final attachment? Will I probably have to trim back
the skin/rib at the
root anyway to match the fuselage? Am I correct in thinking that the most outboard
mounting bolts
are still well inside the 614 edge? Thanks much for any help...
-M
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
remova
Douglas G. Murray wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> > Doug-
> >
> > Haven't you been paying attention over the last 12 months? See archives or
> > visit Bob Nuckolls' site for the reasons.
> >
> > -GV
> >
> >
>
> Sorry for the question. I am a fairly new lister and have been spending too
much
> time in the workshop riveting I suppose. I was always taught the KISS principle
> and since I work on these alternators every day - for the last 25 years - and
> most problems with the regulator cause an under charge problem I was just curious
> to see why you would need to go to all the trouble to redesign a great product.
>
> DGM
>
And right you are Doug opinions are like other things everyone has one.
I and other RV's I know have Chevy Sprint alternators (Nippon D) with
internal regulators and they work just fine. My $45.00 alternator from
the wrecking yard now has over 900 hrs on it as it came from the scrap
yard. Mr Nuckolls dose recommend removing the internal regulator but
will also tell you that most modern automotive alternators are far
superior to some of the alternators used and approved for aircraft.
Also it is not neassery to change pully size as some people seem to
think to "slow it down"
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SHawksw523(at)aol.com |
I've just made my HS810 and HS814 and now turn to the HS602s.
The 3PP drawing has a revision which removes the measurement for the removal
of the angle to make the tongue and replaces it with a "trim to fit" but what
do you trim it to fit? The video says trim of the angle as per the plans.
Sorry to post such a simple question but I don't want to mess up again!
thanks in advance
Stuart Hawksworth
RV8A #80697
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
Hi Dennis,
Welcome to the list. I started taking flying lessons in Oct '97 and
started building my kit in December. I didn't get my ticket until July.
There is some risk involved since there is no guarantee you will get the
license but every pilot with his license could be only one medical away
from losing his privledges. There is a great deal of satisfaction in
building and some find that to be enough.
Bill Pagan
80555-wings ready to close
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
> Old pros-
>
>
> My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
>build the RV-6A before I get a license?
>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
> My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
>build the RV-6A before I get a license? Is there any info or experience I
>need to use in assembly that I can only get from flying or is the process
>fairly straight forward? I am a sheet-metal mech. at a major airline and
>would love the experience of building an RV.
Dennis,
There have been several people who starting building RVs before
starting their flying training. I would think the only area where it
helps to have actual flight experince is the layout of the instrument
panel. You should study as many instrument panels as you can and
discuss your proposed layout with people with more experience (when
you get to that stage of the project).
In your case, I would say start building. I too was waiting for the
right time to come along, but it never did. There was always some
little thing in the way. Finally I realized that the perfect time
never arrives. You just have to realize that the earlier you start
the earlier you will finish.
Good luck,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Rich Miller wrote:
>
>
> jerry calvert wrote:
> >
> >
> > Steve Hughes wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello folks,
> > > Im new to the list.
> > > Been lurking for over a year but just purchased tools and an empennage kit
> > > at Oshkosh.
> > > Now i have finished converting the garage to a shop and have the jig and
> > > workspaces built.
> > > My question is Are there any builders near Montgomery Alabama who might from
> > > time to time offer advice or assistance.
> > > My address is
> > >
> > > Steve Hughes
> > > 102 Travis Ridge
> > > Deatsville, Alabama
> > >
> > > Deatsville is approximately 15 miles north of Montgomery
> > > I live three miles from the Wetumpka Alabama airport
> > > Thanks in advance
> > > U may reply off list at
> > > okeanos(at)msn.com
> > >
> >
> > Welcome aboard Steve. Van's should has a builders list for your area
> > available upon request. That may help.
> >
> > Good luck on the project
> > Jerry Calvert
> > Edmond Ok -6a wings
> >
> Hello , My name is Rich and I just bought a kit this year in Oshlosh
> also. Im boung to have lots of questions and will need alot of advice.
> Im located in the lover corner of MD and my E-mail addreaa is
> pitts7(at)erols.com
> I would love to hear from you. Rich
>
Hi Rich,
Welcome to the RV brotherhood. You are correct that you will have a lot
questions. Fortunately, the RV List will have an abundance of answers
for you. Many questions have been previously asked and you can do a
search of the archieves to retrieve the answers. And ofcourse, you can
always toss one out to the list for response.
Enjoy your project and try to do a little every day!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
DENNIS HART wrote:
>
>
> Old pros-
>
> I have been following the rv list for several weeks and think it will
> be a wonderful tool in assembling an RV-6A. Ever since a&p school about 10
> years ago I have wanted to build an airplane and fly it. I decided on the
> RV back then and just had to wait for the right time. Well- 10 years later
> I think it is here. I have flown quite a bit with fellow workers but i have
> never gotten my private ticket.
> My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
> build the RV-6A before I get a license? Is there any info or experience I
> need to use in assembly that I can only get from flying or is the process
> fairly straight forward? I am a sheet-metal mech. at a major airline and
> would love the experience of building an RV.
> My thought is that after I build the a/c I imagine I will have to wait
> to be able to afford an engine. In this time I can get my ticket.
> Is this idiotic thinking?
> My apoligies that my post is not of a technical nature. I just figure
> this would be the crowd with the best advice.
>
> Anxious to build Dennis
> >
Dennis,
There have been several non-pilot RV builders. Since you are sheet
metal mech, you have the skills to build that we had to acquire. I
personally feel that being a pilot is not a prerequisite for building.
Having the desire and a dream is what it takes! Some builders have
learned to fly in their RV's. The problem is finding an instructor who
has time in an RV. You may have to get your ticket in something else
and transition to the RV. Van's has pilots who can give you dual time.
Go for it!!!!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap question |
TOMRV4(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/20/98 10:55:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
> calverjl(at)flash.net writes:
>
> > It takes quite a push to get the top skin to lay
> > down on the bottom skin at the overlap joint.
>
> Jerry,
> I just finished drilling my first flap for my RV-8 today, and found the
> following:
> -- The trailing edge of my top skin needed to be bent more to lay down
> properly on the bottom skin. I used the 2x8 wood bending jig used for the
> elevators and rudder.
> -- The pre formed rear spar on the bottom flap skin has a built in "bow",
> apparently from the forming process. I was able to get virtually all of the
> bow out by GENTLY bending the skin/ spar in the opposite direction. Take it
> very slowly if you use this approach; you could easily kink the spar.
>
> Good luck
>
> Tom
> San Antonio
> Flying RV-4, N153TK...735 hours
> Amazed at how much quicker the pre punched RV-8 goes together compared to the
> -4
>
Tom,
I don't have the bow in my -6a skin, but my trailing edge definately
needs a little more bending. Thanks for the response.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
> If Roadway decides to charge you extra, because you are 6 mile outside
> their shipping zones, your problem is with Roadway, not Van's.
>
> Lighten up!!! Get a grip!! Finish your airplane, then enjoy.
This looks like a case of "don't confuse me with evidence I don't want to see,
my
mind is made up." Lloyd's description of the facts indicates that Van's failed
to
choose the least expensive shipper. A reasonable person would expect Van to
pick the least expensive available shipper. A responsible company would, I
think, strive to do that. Saying "Roadway charged to much, not Van's fault"
ignores the evidence that Van's may have failed in their responsibility to select
the least expensive shipper.
I've not heard Van's side of this particular incident, but Lloyd's "buyer beware"
warning certainly seems warranted.
None of us like to think ill of Van's, but when Van's lets one of us down the rest
need to know about it to avoid the same or similar situation. Thanks, Lloyd.
Tim
Entire QB shipped to San Antonio for $794 in '96.
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
Remove the flange where the floor makes a bend at the front of the piece and
trim to fit.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/ Tacoma WA
>
>I'm trimming my cardboard to fit the electric flap housing sides. The
>floorboards
>are not exactly flat how do you follow the curvature. The sides are already
>bent that screw down on floors. Any help?
>
>Regards Mike Comeaux
>RV6QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Stuart,
The overall length of the front spar, prior to bending, must be 97
5/8 as shown. Trim away just enough of the flange so it will not
interfere with the bend. You don't want to make the "tongue" too
long, or you could be short of edge distance where the rivet goes
through the HS 602 flange, skin and HS 405. Be especially careful
not to trim the width of the "tongue" too much, or you will be short
of the required edge distance on the remaining metal when you drill
the HS 602 to the HS 810 & 814.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>I've just made my HS810 and HS814 and now turn to the HS602s.
>
>The 3PP drawing has a revision which removes the measurement for the removal
>of the angle to make the tongue and replaces it with a "trim to fit" but what
>do you trim it to fit? The video says trim of the angle as per the plans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
What a lame, cry baby attitude! You are spending at least $50,000 on your
airplane and you are making such a big deal about an extra $300. How about
the money Van's saved you on the shipping costs of your tail, wings and
fuselage? We are grown men and women so lets take responsibility for
situations like these. FOB means FOB so it is OUR responsibility to ensure
that we are getting and appropriate shipping rate, it is not Van's.
I am so sick and tired of hearing this cry baby baloney. Van's has made
every effort to produce the least expensive, best performing kit plane in
the industry so that the average Joe like us can afford it. Then there is
one person that does not do their homework on the shipping and so gets
stiffed for an extra $300 and as our society teaches he blames it on
everyone else except himself.
Take responsibility for YOUR mistake LLoyd (since it is FOB you had the
option of selecting shipping companies, I know I did) and quit trying to
shift the blame to Van's.
Gary Rush
80352
Finishing Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com <SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 7:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bend over & shut up
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>As I promised last week, here is the final outcome of the saga of the
finish
>kit that cost $624 to ship to Texas (approx. $350 more than it should
have).
>Despite some valiant efforts by some members of the RV List with
connections
>at Roadway we were not able to get anything worked out. For a while it
looked
>hopeful, but Roadway dug in their heels and said no discount. I got tired
of
>waiting and just paid the $624 in order to get back to building.
>
>Everyone on this list, who still has kits to order, needs to know this -
Vans
>offered no assistance what-so-ever with this problem. The only way to
protect
>yourself is to make it very, very clear to them that they are not to ship
you
>anything without first confirming the shipping cost to you. If it is not
>right, get it settled before shipping. I promise you that you will not get
one
>bit of assistance from Vans once they have their payment in hand. You can
not
>assume they will ship by the most economical means and, if you think they
>will, it can cost you just like it cost me. Also don't assume you will get
a
>call if the shipping is 2-3 time what it should be. As a matter of fact I
>asked them why they couldn't just pick up the phone and call a customer
when
>something was obviously out of line such as this. Their response, "We don't
>have time to call to discuss shipping arrangements." Keep in mind, they are
>spending your money on freight and have no incentive to shop for a good
price.
>
>Here is what we confirmed happened on this shipment. Apparently our zip
code
>is not a direct shipping point for Roadway who was the shipper. ABF would
have
>delivered for $250 to $300 since our zip is a direct shipping point for
them.
>I asked Vans why they didn't ship the finish kit ABF since it was so much
>cheaper. Their reply was, "We alternate shippers." Looks like I got in the
>wrong sequence! One thing that is so frustrating about the whole thing is
that
>even Roadway has direct shipping points within 5-6 miles of our location
that
>would have qualified for the same discounts we would have gotten from ABF.
The
>finish kit could have easily been shipped by ABF with no problem; by
Roadway
>it could have gone to a terminal or friend's house and given us the
>opportunity to drive a couple of miles and pick it up with all the
discounts
>in place. Again, they are spending other people's money and there is no
>incentive to shop around unless YOU make them. If you forget that, you will
>get this response, "We ship FOB which means that once it leaves our shop,
we
>have nothing to do with it. Any dispute is between the customer and the
>trucker." If Vans makes a mistake on your shipping their position will be
WE
>GOT OUR MONEY, WE CAN SHIP HOW WE PLEASE, TOO BAD IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE
RATE
>WE ACCEPTED FOR YOU. So much for customer service!
>
>Well, there it is. It is ancient history to me, as I am now on the finish
kit
>and don't even want to think about the whole sorry affair any more. I
>sincerely hope it benefits some other builders who still have kits to
order.
>Make them clarify everything prior to shipping and don't take any crap from
>them. Check with other builders in your area and make sure you are getting
>rates in the same ballpark. If not, make Vans work for your business by
>exploring your options. Don't feel like you are wasting their time because
>they will sure waste your money if you let them.
>
>Lloyd Morris
>RV-6, Starting finish kit
>Lago Vista, TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes |
Wendell, I agree that ideally there shouldn't be any misalignment of holes.
However, there is some room for misalignment even using the structural hole
sizes that Jack listed. More so if you use the hole sizes that GV listed.
What I was referring to usually has happened when I've used clecoes to
attach the platenuts used for drilling the mounting holes. I think this is
because the squeezed portion of the plate nut is not always perfectly
centered to the threads and/or the correct size, which lets the platenut
float and this is what the clecoe is aligning to (I would quess that is why
there are platenut drill guides that should be used). Therefore, it ends up
not being in perfect alignment to the mounting hole and sometimes is really
tight to get the screw started when assembling a structural part with
multiple screw holes drilled to the minimum size. Of course, if a
structural part won't fit at all, then remounting of the offending
platenut(s) or remaking the part would be in order. If it is a
non-structural part, then I would be inclined to enlarge the holes for ease
of assembly up to the 20% figure that Jack provided.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>In a message dated 8/22/98 5:55:31 Central Daylight Time,
>lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com writes:
>
><< if the holes are not in perfect alignment with the platenut, >>
>
>Under what conditions would this be acceptible?
>
>Just learning.
>
>Regards
>
>Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Shipping Charges ,Also Bend Over Shut Up |
Do it the way I picked up a kit on the gear with wings done.
I live in South Eastern Wa state, the RV3 was in Ft Collins Co, 1200 miles
away, I got in my pickup with trailer in tow and drove it in a total of
48hrs on the road straight thru with a 12 hr layover including loading time
of 6hr. Only cost me time and 400.00 in fuel, its a 1ton pu and gets worse
milage than anything you can imagine. Now lets hear from all of you about
shipping charges. Oh yes had to take a day off from work and loose a weekend
of my time to do it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I'm trimming my cardboard to fit the electric flap housing sides. The
floorboards
are not exactly flat how do you follow the curvature. The sides are already
bent that screw down on floors. Any help? >>
Yes. Cutoff the portion of the flange that is ahead of the floor crease.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
<< My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
build the RV-6A before I get a license? Is there any info or experience I
need to use in assembly that I can only get from flying or is the process
fairly straight forward? I am a sheet-metal mech. at a major airline and
would love the experience of building an RV.
My thought is that after I build the a/c I imagine I will have to wait
to be able to afford an engine. In this time I can get my ticket.
Is this idiotic thinking? >>
Not at all, IMO. Building is completely separate from flying. There are
people who build and don't fly and the reverse. Build the plane if it is your
dream. Then learn to fly. Build it and they will come.
-GV
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Modifying alternator for external voltage regulator, pulley |
remova
<< I was always taught the KISS principle
and since I work on these alternators every day - for the last 25 years -
and
most problems with the regulator cause an under charge problem I was just
curious
to see why you would need to go to all the trouble to redesign a great
product. >>
Sorry, you didn't say you were a new lister, so I erroneously bit your ear
off. Here, you can have it back ;^)
It's really about control and proceeds from the simple idea that anything in
your aircraft can/will fail. Minimizing the capability of the alternator to
cause damage when it fails is key. Removing the internal regulator allows us
to do four important things. We can now control the field by manually
shutting down the alternator, add a very effective automatic shutdown
capability referred to as a crowbar circuit, use a linear regulator adjustable
for RG batteries and install a good low voltage warning lamp that notifies the
pilot promptly when the alternator has gone off-line (bus below 13V).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wingking85(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
I bought an new Chevy Celebrity in 1986. I have changed the oil in it every
3000 miles since I've had it. Some say that is excessive. I've have never
used any kind of additive. Always use Quaker State 10W30. Just ran out and
looked at the odometer. 228795.6
Runs great and never hesitate to take it on a trip. Oil gets dirty no matter
what type. Dirt causes wear. Change oil often. It's That simple.
Don Herrmann
RV-6A Wings 80%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wingking85(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
Had the same sinerio happen. ABF delivered my wing kit to my door step for X
amount.
My buddy, who lives nearby had Roadway call him to pick up his kit across town
for XX amount. I went with him with my freight bill from ABF and they
reluctently did Knock off x.
I for one will not not deal with Roadway if at all possible.
Don Herrmann
RV-6A Wings 80%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wingking85(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
Dennis asked about building before or after getting pilots license.
In my opinon it does not matter. Both take patience and dedication to
achieve.
However don't wait to long to start, life is short. You'll have great fun
doing both. Good luck!
Don Herrmann
RV-6A Wings 80%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
Amen Gary I hope Lloyd reads this. If he is in fact this upset sell the
plane.
----------
> From: Gary Rush <gerush(at)earthlink.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Bend over & shut up
> Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 8:14 AM
>
>
> What a lame, cry baby attitude! You are spending at least $50,000 on
your
> airplane and you are making such a big deal about an extra $300. How
about
> the money Van's saved you on the shipping costs of your tail, wings and
> fuselage? We are grown men and women so lets take responsibility for
> situations like these. FOB means FOB so it is OUR responsibility to
ensure
> that we are getting and appropriate shipping rate, it is not Van's.
>
> I am so sick and tired of hearing this cry baby baloney. Van's has made
> every effort to produce the least expensive, best performing kit plane in
> the industry so that the average Joe like us can afford it. Then there
is
> one person that does not do their homework on the shipping and so gets
> stiffed for an extra $300 and as our society teaches he blames it on
> everyone else except himself.
>
> Take responsibility for YOUR mistake LLoyd (since it is FOB you had the
> option of selecting shipping companies, I know I did) and quit trying to
> shift the blame to Van's.
>
> Gary Rush
> 80352
> Finishing Wings
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com <SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 7:08 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Bend over & shut up
>
>
> >
> >Hello everyone,
> >
> >As I promised last week, here is the final outcome of the saga of the
> finish
> >kit that cost $624 to ship to Texas (approx. $350 more than it should
> have).
> >Despite some valiant efforts by some members of the RV List with
> connections
> >at Roadway we were not able to get anything worked out. For a while it
> looked
> >hopeful, but Roadway dug in their heels and said no discount. I got
tired
> of
> >waiting and just paid the $624 in order to get back to building.
> >
> >Everyone on this list, who still has kits to order, needs to know this -
> Vans
> >offered no assistance what-so-ever with this problem. The only way to
> protect
> >yourself is to make it very, very clear to them that they are not to
ship
> you
> >anything without first confirming the shipping cost to you. If it is not
> >right, get it settled before shipping. I promise you that you will not
get
> one
> >bit of assistance from Vans once they have their payment in hand. You
can
> not
> >assume they will ship by the most economical means and, if you think
they
> >will, it can cost you just like it cost me. Also don't assume you will
get
> a
> >call if the shipping is 2-3 time what it should be. As a matter of fact
I
> >asked them why they couldn't just pick up the phone and call a customer
> when
> >something was obviously out of line such as this. Their response, "We
don't
> >have time to call to discuss shipping arrangements." Keep in mind, they
are
> >spending your money on freight and have no incentive to shop for a good
> price.
> >
> >Here is what we confirmed happened on this shipment. Apparently our zip
> code
> >is not a direct shipping point for Roadway who was the shipper. ABF
would
> have
> >delivered for $250 to $300 since our zip is a direct shipping point for
> them.
> >I asked Vans why they didn't ship the finish kit ABF since it was so
much
> >cheaper. Their reply was, "We alternate shippers." Looks like I got in
the
> >wrong sequence! One thing that is so frustrating about the whole thing
is
> that
> >even Roadway has direct shipping points within 5-6 miles of our location
> that
> >would have qualified for the same discounts we would have gotten from
ABF.
> The
> >finish kit could have easily been shipped by ABF with no problem; by
> Roadway
> >it could have gone to a terminal or friend's house and given us the
> >opportunity to drive a couple of miles and pick it up with all the
> discounts
> >in place. Again, they are spending other people's money and there is no
> >incentive to shop around unless YOU make them. If you forget that, you
will
> >get this response, "We ship FOB which means that once it leaves our
shop,
> we
> >have nothing to do with it. Any dispute is between the customer and the
> >trucker." If Vans makes a mistake on your shipping their position will
be
> WE
> >GOT OUR MONEY, WE CAN SHIP HOW WE PLEASE, TOO BAD IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE
> RATE
> >WE ACCEPTED FOR YOU. So much for customer service!
> >
> >Well, there it is. It is ancient history to me, as I am now on the
finish
> kit
> >and don't even want to think about the whole sorry affair any more. I
> >sincerely hope it benefits some other builders who still have kits to
> order.
> >Make them clarify everything prior to shipping and don't take any crap
from
> >them. Check with other builders in your area and make sure you are
getting
> >rates in the same ballpark. If not, make Vans work for your business by
> >exploring your options. Don't feel like you are wasting their time
because
> >they will sure waste your money if you let them.
> >
> >Lloyd Morris
> >RV-6, Starting finish kit
> >Lago Vista, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat hinges in riveting in a 6 |
I did exactly that...I pop riveted them in place on the floor, being sure to
avoid the seat ribs, so that you can take the seat pans in and out for
maintenence..
You can see my installation at:
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Paul Besing
RV-6A(197AB) Arizona
Waiting on Finish Kit
>
>I am putting the three rows of seat hinges in my 6. Looking at the plans, it
>only looks as if you pop rivet the hinge at the seat rib intersections? I
>would think that there should be some rivets in-between the seat ribs that
>could be riveted in before the seat is in place (matching spacing to hinge
>on seatback).
>
>As is normal, forgot to contact Van's before the weekend.
>
>What have others done?
>
>Don Mack
>RV-6A Fuselage
>Ercoupe 415-D
>donmack(at)flash.net
>icq 16679225
>http://www.flash.net/~donmack
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
Dennis:
I would say don't worry about flying before you build. It is more money you
can put into your project. Trust me, you'll need it! The only thing that I
can think of that would benifit you is things like options and the panel.
If you do not have any flying experience, you don't know what is comfortable
and what is not. You may prefer to put your engine gauges on the right side
of the panel, upside down if you like it that way.
As far as building, you don't need any flying skills to build. Since you
are an A&P you are quite a few steps ahead of the game already.. you will
be glad you have that experience...
Good luck..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting for finish kit..
>
> Old pros-
>
> I have been following the rv list for several weeks and think it will
>be a wonderful tool in assembling an RV-6A. Ever since a&p school about 10
>years ago I have wanted to build an airplane and fly it. I decided on the
>RV back then and just had to wait for the right time. Well- 10 years later
>I think it is here. I have flown quite a bit with fellow workers but i have
>never gotten my private ticket.
> My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
>build the RV-6A before I get a license? Is there any info or experience I
>need to use in assembly that I can only get from flying or is the process
>fairly straight forward? I am a sheet-metal mech. at a major airline and
>would love the experience of building an RV.
> My thought is that after I build the a/c I imagine I will have to wait
>to be able to afford an engine. In this time I can get my ticket.
>Is this idiotic thinking?
> My apoligies that my post is not of a technical nature. I just figure
>this would be the crowd with the best advice.
>
> Anxious to build Dennis
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
In a message dated 8/23/98 3:35:14 PM, you wrote:
<>
I am happy for you that you are in a position that $300 is no big deal to you.
You probably light cigars with hundred dollar bills, don't you? Some of us
still consider it a fair amount of money, especially when it was totally
wasted. All a shipping clerk had to do was type ABF instead of Roadway on a
bill of lading. Is that too much to ask?
<>
I thought that was pretty much the message I sent in my post. I told everyone
that if you want it done right, do it yourself. Don't expect Vans to do it for
you. Honestly though, I think we all have a right to expect the shipper, who
supposedly made the deals with the shippers in the first place, to at least
give us the courtesy of shipping by the least expensive method. After all,
they are the ones who ship freight out every day and are the experts. Do we as
builders, not have the right to expect a little assistance from the company to
which we are giving our business? I know in my company, we will bend over
backward for a customer that gives us twenty bucks. For the cost of an RV, I
would fly cross the country and take them out to lunch.
I also said in my last post that this whole affair was ancient history to me
and I was not going to waste any more time thinking about it. Now here I sit
thinking about it again! I am really putting this out of my mind this time.
Got to start thinking about fiber glass. Yuck! Would much prefer to be bending
rivets and drilling holes in my fingers.
Lloyd Morris
RV-6, Finish kit
Lago Vista, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 28V from 14V |
On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Finn Lassen wrote:
>
> Brian Lloyd wrote:
> > The finished converter seems to be able to source about 1.5A at 27V. Since
> > the gyro only draws about .8A at that voltage, it looks like there is ample
> > margin. The coverter gets only mildly warm (maybe 20 degree F temperature
> > rise) in operation. The gyro seems to like it just fine and the whole mess
> > has run for 24 hours on my work bench with no sign of trouble.
>
> A word of caution here. I looked up D1 (the N-channel MOSFET) on both
> Motorola's and Siliconix' web sites. They are 30 Volt MOSFETS. Runnning
> the converter to output 27 volts, I suspect you'll measure spikes higher
> than 30 volts across it. I'd suggest beefing up bothe N1 and D1 to 40 or
> 45 volt types, just like you increased the caps from 20 to 30 volts(36).
I checked with a scope: no spikes up that high. In fact, I couldn't see
any spikes at all. The putput ripple is essentially a square wave with
very slight rining on it.
> Also, note that in the spec sheet the rated output is 0.5 amps (although
> both MOSFET and diaode should easily be able to handle more than that).
> Also, per specs it runs at 300KHz, not 200KHz (nit-picking, I know).
I actually talked with an application engineer at Maxim and he said
that the eval kit should be very happy doing the job I wanted it to do.
The converter doesn't run at fixed frequency. I forget whether it is the
on or the off part of the duty cycle that changes but it is not a PWM
regulator. The result is that frequency changes with load. I did an
eyeball cycle time measurement using a scope whose timebase has never been
recalibrated and then did a quick-and-dirty time-to-freq conversion in my
head but it seems to be in the neighborhood of 200 KHz so I certainly
could have been off by 50%.
> Great idea, though!
Thanks. It seems to work just fine on the bench but the proof of the
pudding is in the flying. I will let you know in a year if it is still
happy.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt and screw hole sizes & my mistake |
While we're on this subject, I'd like to bring up a goof that I made
yesterday and see what you all think. I was installing my RV-8 flap
actuator arm, and when I installed my platenuts to hold the plastic
block in place, they came out all crooked. It was a tight fit to get a
squeezer in there because of the armrest being in the way, and a bucking
bar would never fit. To make matters worse, the holes I drilled in my
floor for the bolts to go through were nowhere near where they had to
be, and the holes in my plastic blocks were crooked, even though I used
a drill press! I had to make the holes in the floor oblong, I mean
really oblong! Now, after some kicking and cursing (5 hrs worth) my
actuator is installed, but there is a slight load on it when I actuate
it. Both blocks drift about 1/32" each when I move it through it's full
range of travel. Is this anything to worry about? I don't want these
bolts snapping off for obvious reasons. I thought of some fixes I could
implement:
1. Take out the platenuts, rivet a patch over the stringer that they
were attached to, and drill new blocks, attaching them with NUTS and
bolts as they should be. The problem here is that I would then have to
cut an inspection hole in the floor so I could get access to the nuts.
In the RV-8 the floor get pop-riveted down in this location.
2. Enlarge the holes in the plastic blocks until the load is gone. Just
getting new blocks and redrilling them is not an option, as I'll never
get the holes all lined up again.
So what do the experts think?
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
You'll never know until you get started. I say your plan sounds good to
me, buy the tailkit. Just make sure you find out who's gonna ship it!
:)
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
DENNIS HART wrote:
>
>
> Old pros-
>
> I have been following the rv list for several weeks and think it will
> be a wonderful tool in assembling an RV-6A. Ever since a&p school about 10
> years ago I have wanted to build an airplane and fly it. I decided on the
> RV back then and just had to wait for the right time. Well- 10 years later
> I think it is here. I have flown quite a bit with fellow workers but i have
> never gotten my private ticket.
> My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
> build the RV-6A before I get a license? Is there any info or experience I
> need to use in assembly that I can only get from flying or is the process
> fairly straight forward? I am a sheet-metal mech. at a major airline and
> would love the experience of building an RV.
> My thought is that after I build the a/c I imagine I will have to wait
> to be able to afford an engine. In this time I can get my ticket.
> Is this idiotic thinking?
> My apoligies that my post is not of a technical nature. I just figure
> this would be the crowd with the best advice.
>
> Anxious to build Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | speed/power/altitude |
At full throttle cruise in my 6A at 10,000' (2750 rpm, 21" mp) my GPS
slowly inches up and stabilizes at 195 mph.
What then will my full throttle speed be at a lower altitude? (say
2,000')
Will it be lower?
higher?
about the same?
? Higher speed because the engine is creating more power, or because the
air is denser increasing the efficiency of the prop?
? Lower speed because of increased drag due to the denser air?
? or about the same because rpm is the only true factor in determining
thrust and other the variables have little significance?
If the answer is higher or lower, is there an altitude in which the
variables come into equilibrium and the best speed per rpm setting can
be obtained?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | fuel drain valve O-rings |
I have noticed that the small O-ring on the quick drain valves in the
fuel tanks have seriously deteriorated and should be replaced. (I pulled
them out to drain the tanks so I could service my tight fuel valve as
Vans suggests in the RV-ator)
Is there anything special about these O-rings or can they be replaced
with anything of suitable size at the auto parts store?
Thanks,
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org.showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
> >Return-Path: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>
>
> > My question to those who care to respond is- Is it unwise for me to
> >build the RV-6A before I get a license?
>
> I would think the only area where it
> helps to have actual flight experince is the layout of the instrument
> panel. You should study as many instrument panels as you can and
> discuss your proposed layout with people with more experience (when
> you get to that stage of the project).
I would agree with Kevin but also add something else -- there are other
decisions you make as you build the airplane that you may want to discuss
with other builders or pilots. The decisions I'm referring to are the
option decisions from Van's -- 4 vs. 6 vs. 8. Tail vs. nose dragger.
Tip up vs. slider, electric flaps, trim, etc.
The building process itself -- you`ll have an advantage, as you work closely
in the industry already. You already know how to drive rivets.
The decisions I just listed are somewhat of a religious/political discussion
between builders. Everyone has an opinion. Talk to people to help you make
these kinds of decisions.
-J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 28V from 14V |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> > A word of caution here. I looked up D1 (the N-channel MOSFET) on both
> > Motorola's and Siliconix' web sites. They are 30 Volt MOSFETS. Runnning
> > the converter to output 27 volts, I suspect you'll measure spikes higher
> > than 30 volts across it. I'd suggest beefing up bothe N1 and D1 to 40 or
> > 45 volt types, just like you increased the caps from 20 to 30 volts(36).
>
> I checked with a scope: no spikes up that high. In fact, I couldn't see
> any spikes at all. The putput ripple is essentially a square wave with
> very slight rining on it.
Sorry for having jumped the gun there. You obviously did your homework,
so this should prove a reliable solution.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 28V from 14V |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 22 Aug 1998, Finn Lassen wrote:
>
> >
> > Brian Lloyd wrote:
> > > The finished converter seems to be able to source about 1.5A at 27V. Since
> > > the gyro only draws about .8A at that voltage, it looks like there is ample
> > > margin. The coverter gets only mildly warm (maybe 20 degree F temperature
> > > rise) in operation. The gyro seems to like it just fine and the whole mess
> > > has run for 24 hours on my work bench with no sign of trouble.
> >
> > A word of caution here. I looked up D1 (the N-channel MOSFET) on both
> > Motorola's and Siliconix' web sites. They are 30 Volt MOSFETS. Runnning
> > the converter to output 27 volts, I suspect you'll measure spikes higher
> > than 30 volts across it. I'd suggest beefing up bothe N1 and D1 to 40 or
> > 45 volt types, just like you increased the caps from 20 to 30 volts(36).
>
> I checked with a scope: no spikes up that high. In fact, I couldn't see
> any spikes at all. The putput ripple is essentially a square wave with
> very slight rining on it.
>
> > Also, note that in the spec sheet the rated output is 0.5 amps (although
> > both MOSFET and diaode should easily be able to handle more than that).
> > Also, per specs it runs at 300KHz, not 200KHz (nit-picking, I know).
>
> I actually talked with an application engineer at Maxim and he said
> that the eval kit should be very happy doing the job I wanted it to do.
>
> The converter doesn't run at fixed frequency. I forget whether it is the
> on or the off part of the duty cycle that changes but it is not a PWM
> regulator. The result is that frequency changes with load. I did an
> eyeball cycle time measurement using a scope whose timebase has never been
> recalibrated and then did a quick-and-dirty time-to-freq conversion in my
> head but it seems to be in the neighborhood of 200 KHz so I certainly
> could have been off by 50%.
>
> > Great idea, though!
>
> Thanks. It seems to work just fine on the bench but the proof of the
> pudding is in the flying. I will let you know in a year if it is still
> happy.
>
> Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
> brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
> (916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
> (916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
>
Brian,
I work at Maxim. Let me know if I can help you get samples, data books,
or what ever.
Ed Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel drain valve O-rings |
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com wrote:
>
>
> I have noticed that the small O-ring on the quick drain valves in the
> fuel tanks have seriously deteriorated and should be replaced. (I pulled
> them out to drain the tanks so I could service my tight fuel valve as
> Vans suggests in the RV-ator)
>
> Is there anything special about these O-rings or can they be replaced
> with anything of suitable size at the auto parts store?
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
Andy,
There was an article on this subject in Light Plane Maintenance a couple
of months
ago. They devoted several pages on how to make O-rings out of sheet
stock etc. etc.
The bottom line was, it is probably just as cheap to put in new quick
drains as to
replace the O-rings. If you want a copy of the article, let me know and
I'll send it
to you.
Ed Cole
RV6A fuse skins...still
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
You don't neccesarily need to know how to fly in order to build a perfectly
good airplane. I don''t have my license yet, and I am in the middle of
building my wings. I do intend to get finished up on my license and get
checked out on an RV before I fly. I would also like to get an experienced RV
pilot to do the initial flight, if possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | speed/power/altitude |
Given a particular power setting, Indicated Airspeed will be the same
for all altitudes (assuming an angle of attack consistent with straight
and level flight) , however your True Airspeed will be higher at
altitude and will decrease as your height decreases, mainly as I
understand it due to the not insignificant effects of increased air
density and ALL forms of drag.
Therefore in answer to your question, your True Airspeed will be lower
at 2000'.
Because of the decreasing density at altitude, The higher you go- the
faster your true airspeed, assuming , normal aerofoil performance.
I would think Your aircrafts max speed performance (apart from straight
horsepower and thrust at the prop) is all about the way you want to
configure it .
But there are plenty of experienced RVers who have thought this one
through much more than I.
Safe Aviating.
> From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com [SMTP:winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com]
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 6:39 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: speed/power/altitude
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
>What a lame, cry baby attitude! You are spending at least $50,000
>on your airplane and you are making such a big deal about an extra
>$300. How about the money Van's saved you on the shipping
>costs of your tail, wings and fuselage? We are grown men and
>women so lets take responsibility for situations like these. FOB
>means FOB to ensure that we are getting and appropriate shipping
>rate, it is not Van's.
>
>I am so sick and tired of hearing this cry baby baloney. Van's has
>made every effort to produce the least expensive, best performing
>kit plane in the industry so that the average Joe like us can afford it.
>Then there is one person that does not do their homework on the
>shipping and so gets stiffed for an extra $300 and as our society
>teaches he blames it on everyone else except himself.
>
>Take responsibility for YOUR mistake LLoyd (since it is FOB you
>had the option of selecting shipping companies, I know I did) and
>quit trying to shift the blame to Van's.
OK, Gary is right. Enough is enough.
I've been reading this thread for a bit and I know there are some out
there who think Van can do no wrong. Unfortunately, I have an
opposite opinion on the subject since I've just about finished mine
and have run into many things I have had second thoughts about
when dealing with Van's. The gentleman who started this thread
had the same concerns I've had several times during my project.
When I read a response like the one above, I can understand why
we lose folks off our list, even some good folks. So, rather than
discuss the subject so that others can learn from our mistakes, let's
just end it because some of you out there don't want to hurt Van's
feelings.
As for Gary's comments, let me make a couple of my own before I
sign off this note. My airplane is just about to go over the $40K mark
and will not be anything fancy. It's going over that mark because
I've had price increases thrown at me so much that it's driven the
price up by at least ten percent, maybe much more. Van's does the
same thing. I've received orders from Van's and others more than
once that were over $300 beyond what I had seen in their current
catalogs. I felt I had no choice but to eat those from Van's because I
was afraid to offend them. I couldn't get their kits from anyone else!
Even though I can afford the airplane I'm building, I could have
better afforded it and maybe had nicer equipment had the current
catalog prices been honored along the way. It's not just Van's; but,
Van does the same as everyone else.
As for Van's creating a best bang for the buck airplane, I can't
dispute that because I've never built a kit from anyone else. I'm sure
most of us are in the same boat and just weigh what we've heard. I
can say that many of my parts were below my standards, which are
probably just average, and could have been done much better by
the pros. Another thing, if there is a problem, it oftentimes gets
looked over and finally gets fixed years later if there are enough of us
who speak up about it. Remember the electric flaps fit problem just
recently and the spar holes spacing problems that may still be out
there, a problem I discovered myself six years ago? Yes, Van's does
sell a good bang for the buck; but, at what price to us? I've spent
many, many hours fixing problems caused by poor quality at Van's. I
don't mind making some of the parts myself; but, I sure hate remaking
parts due to their errors.
As for Lloyd's taking responsibility for his shipment, I'm not sure I even
had the choice of shippers. I just got a call from the shippers when
the kits arrived. I, personally, would expect Van's to help us get the
best bang for the buck in shipping, too. I was lucky and did get
good rates; but, I thank people like Lloyd who braved people like
Gary and told us about the problem anyway. I have all of my kits and
will probably not buy another Van's airplane kit; however, what Lloyd
did will surely help those behind us. For that, I'm thankful. Let's hope
he can, and will, help us with other things along the way, even
though he may get burned in the process. Goodness knows, I've
been burned a time or two and rarely answer questions on line. I've
been told we all lose when the answers to questions are kept off line.
Well, I think Gary made us perfectly clear to us why that happens.
Listers, I'm sorry for seeming so heated; but, I hate to see us lose
good input due to over zealous loyalty to a business.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shipping Charges ,Also Bend Over Shut Up |
Boyd Butler wrote:
> Do it the way I picked up a kit on the gear with wings done.
> I live in South Eastern Wa state, the RV3 was in Ft Collins Co, 1200 miles
> away, I got in my pickup with trailer in tow and drove it in a total of
> 48hrs on the road straight thru with a 12 hr layover including loading time
> of 6hr. Only cost me time and 400.00 in fuel, its a 1ton pu and gets worse
> milage than anything you can imagine. Now lets hear from all of you about
> shipping charges. Oh yes had to take a day off from work and loose a weekend
> of my time to do it.
Boyd - Your trip sounds like mine. I drove 15 hours each way in a snow storm to
get my RV-6 and spent a very enjoyable week in Van's building class. I would do
it
again in a second. Van's sometimes comes across with a indifferent attitude when
asking for assistance but I probably would too if I was inundated with the same
number of requests they get. Over all, I give Van's honor marks for a great
product. I hope to fly my creation down to the Homecoming one of these years.
I
also thank all of you on this list for the many comments and bits of help I have
received either directly or indirectly. I feel that we have a very good thing
going here. Rather than knock each other when the path is not smooth, let us all
dig in and help each other over the rough spots.
DGM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
Gang, my response to LLoyd was with the same venom and disgust that he
showed toward Van's. If you dish it out Lloyd you must be able to take it.
I am not a Van's zealot and above all do not think they are perfect. The
point of my email was to show that the responsibility is with the builder,
not the manufacturer when it comes to shipping.
If Van's makes an error in the production of the kit, designing or
otherwise, I will be the first one to lean heavily on Van's to get it
corrected (that is Van's responsibility). How it is shipped is mine. All I
have to do is tell Van's in writing how I want it shipped, then if it is not
shipped in accordance with my instructions and as a result costs me more,
then the problem is Van's (not mine and not the shipper), get it?
Finally, the proper way to approach this on the list IMO is for Lloyd to
post in an informative manner that it is necessary to clearly specify with
Van's the shipping carrier they are to use and if you don't you may get
nailed by the shipper for twice the normal (expected) shipping costs. Not
to vent his personal feelings and make broad generalizations that are his
opinions and feelings and do little to inform users as to the original and
fundamental problem, namely BE SURE TO MAKE YOU SHIPPING ARRANGEMENTS AHEAD
OF TIME WITH VAN'S AND DO IT IN WRITING.
Nuf Said! I will not post any further emails regarding this topic. Have a
great day and Happy Building/Flying.
Regards,
Gary Rush
Carlsbad, Ca
80352
Finishing wings
>
>>What a lame, cry baby attitude! You are spending at least $50,000
>OK, Gary is right. Enough is enough.
>
>I've been reading this thread for a bit and I know there are some out
>there who think Van can do no wrong. Unfortunately, I have an
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing skin rivet sequence ? |
rad(at)pen.net wrote:
> was contemplating what to do next. The procedure calls for the tanks next,
> but
> is there any reason I can't go ahead and rivet the top main skins on?
I think it's probably easier to trim the main skins to match the tank
than vice versa.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
<>
Absolutely agree with the 'pay for your own mistakes' concept. I'm not
sure that that applies to LLoyd's situation... he wasn't even told
that Vans might choose a more expensive than necessary shipper.
Now try this one out for size:... Back in March, I emailed the order
for my fuselage kit to Vans. They acknowledged receipt by email. A
month or so later, no charge had appeared on my Visa. When I emailed a
query, I was told that the original order had been lost, and that Vans
"prefers major orders by fax or letter". In the meantime, the NZ$ had
plummeted, so that my kit now costs me about NZ$1,000 (US$500) more.
Now, whose mistake was that? Whose responsibility was that? And guess
who gets to pay?
In fact, I think every order I've placed with them has had some kind
of hitch or mistake.
Whilst Vans produces fine kits at good prices, it seems to me that
their office organisation is below par. And that their attitude is
pretty much "You can't do anything about it, so it's not our problem".
I think part of the problem is that many people on this list seem to
think Van is some kind of god, and that Vans is like the heavenly
choir. Get real, people. Van is a bloke who has found a way to
maintain a good lifestyle doing what he loves (and good on him). The
money for that comes from Vans Aircraft, a company which is in
business to make money by selling airplane kits. They work to get
money... if there's no money in it, they won't do it. They are not
your friends.
As I said, Get Real!
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken hoshowski <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | engine/prop roughness? |
I wonder if anyone on the list has encountered this problem or has any
suggestions.
Engine 0320 B3B 160 HP. Approx 540 since factory reman
Prop Hartzell C/S (purchased new from Vans) Approx 135 since new
Everything nice and smooth at take off power ,prop full fine.
Once we are approx 1000 agl climb/cruise to 2500 square, still smooth
At cruise when prop is pulled back to 2400 and less a roughness
developes and worsens as rpm is reduced. In the circuit at 14 inches
roughness is pronounced and on final when runway is made and power
pulled to idle a very noticeable roughness as engine goes to idle. Once
at idle power all returns to smooth.
Engine compression is 75-75-77-79. Mags and harness have been checked.
Question. Can the blades of a constant speed be out of wack, that is
when not on the stops can one blade be taking a bigger bite than the
other?
We have changed the carb and gone to atomizing nozzle. Next engine step
is to check valve clearances and push rods but with the compression we
are getting this might be unlikely.
Will call Hartzell tomorrow.
Any comments and suggestions welcome.
Thanks
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel drain valve O-rings |
Aircraft Spruce sells replacement O-rings for the quick drain valves for
(as I recall) about 85-cents each) - I had a lot of trouble with dripping
quick drain valves; talked to the manufacturer, and of course they say
"Nobody else ever had that trouble!" - nuts - anyway, after trying several
different O-rings, I finally got a set that actually works. Incidentally, a
slight tug on the bottom of the drain after taking a gas sample will pull
the O-ring into its seat a bit tighter and may help prevent dripping. I
think the springs should be stronger so that this is done by the unit
itself, but a tug will help. Hope this helps.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joe <joe(at)mcione.com> |
Roadway lost my fusealge kit which was to be sent to Florida about a year
ago. After discussing lost item with Vans I was sent another fuselage kit
by Vans Via Roadway which I received and payed the shipping on. Meanwhile
Roadway found the fuselage in New Mexico or Arizona or someplace quite
distant from FL. The fuselage was sent back to Vans. I have received
several threats for payment on the shipping cost of the lost fuselage the
last one was from a collection agency. So far I've used file thirteen
along with the other junk mail.
Hoping for a court date
Joe/finish Kit RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: builder in waiting |
I second that motion.
One thing that I made sure of before I started to build was that I would
indeed enjoy flying. I got my ticket about a year ago, and I started
building the week after. It sounds like you have had enough flying
experiences to know that aviation is your thing, so go for it. In my case,
I figured that if I didn't get started on my RV now, I may never do it.
Best of luck to you.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV 6A 25171
Wings
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Sunday, August 23, 1998 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: builder in waiting
>
>
>Dennis asked about building before or after getting pilots license.
>
>In my opinon it does not matter. Both take patience and dedication to
>achieve.
>However don't wait to long to start, life is short. You'll have great fun
>doing both. Good luck!
>
>Don Herrmann
>RV-6A Wings 80%
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stephen Langdon <SteveLangdon(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
I for one thank Lloyd for his "heads up". I am about to order my first kit
to begin the process. If I had not read this series of posts I would have
trusted Vans and might have spent what would amount to part of my panel
needlessly.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | 0-320 with high compression |
Fellow Listers:
Doing some planning on my engine installation for my RV-4. Just recently
talked with Bart LeLonde at Aero Sport Power and very impressed with his
knowledge. I am considering an 0-320 with high compression cylinders and
pistons (constant speed prop installation) as an alternative to a more
expensive 0-360/constant speed combination.
Granted there is no substitute for money and horsepower, but does anyone
have an opinion on this "souped-up 0-320" with a c/s prop idea. Bart sees
no problem with reliability and longevity (in fact he does lots of these
type rebuilds), but on the other hand you are trying to pump out more
horsepower than originally designed.
Your comments please...
Doug
============
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Miller <pitts7(at)erols.com> |
joe wrote:
>
>
> Roadway lost my fusealge kit which was to be sent to Florida about a year
> ago. After discussing lost item with Vans I was sent another fuselage kit
> by Vans Via Roadway which I received and payed the shipping on. Meanwhile
> Roadway found the fuselage in New Mexico or Arizona or someplace quite
> distant from FL. The fuselage was sent back to Vans. I have received
> several threats for payment on the shipping cost of the lost fuselage the
> last one was from a collection agency. So far I've used file thirteen
> along with the other junk mail.
>
> Hoping for a court date
>
> Joe/finish Kit RV6A
>
Well Fellows Im new to the RV family and just ordered the kit and smiled
when I gave Vans the credit card to pay for shipping. I probely wont
compain about the price, cuz I relized it wont be cheap to ship to
Maryland. I do have a bit of advice. I just bought a wing kit still in
the box and a steel jig from a guy down in dallas. Roadway and yellow
freight wanted 875 for the 400 wing and about the same price for the
steel jig. Ouch it really wasnt worth shippiing the jig. I called the
airlines and they charged about 25% the price and it they garenteed
delivery in 3 days. The only down fall is I need to go to the airport to
recive it. Anyone getting big items should really try to get a quote
from the airfreight carriers. Wish me luck. Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Spaur <chuck(at)spaur.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
As a new builder, getting unfiltered information is very useful, even
information that might be critical of a company or brand-name which I might
like. Discouraging comment or disclosure of "mistakes" defeats the purpose
of this medium. If we try to stick to the facts and share information we
all gain. I'll definitely plan my shipping more carefully from what I've
learned on the list. Back to the shop.
Chuck
RV-6 Empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michelle Hancock <mhancock(at)freewwweb.com> |
I would like to be removed from your distribution/subscription list
please, as soon as possible.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
Gang,
I don't like to respond to heated arguments on the list. Sometimes we say
some venomous things we can't take back and the replies get heated to a
plasma state. As a result, I either keep my opinions to myself, or I reply
off-list. A few minutes ago,
I replied off-list to Gary Rush, concerning his comments about Lloyd
Morris's shipping trials and tribulations. I think I chickened out by going
off-list. Especially when I saw a few other comments agreeing with Lloyd.
Gary, I hope you forgive me for re-posting my reply to you on the list. I
believe the discussion should be kept "open" and play out until we all
feel that we have gained a better understanding. So here goes:
>>Gary,
You said,"The point of my email was to show that the responsibility is with
the builder, not the manufacturer when it comes to shipping."
Wrong. Period. Any manufacturer, supplier, or other business that ships its
products has the responsibility to be courteous enough to help the customer
with the shipping. Van's couldn't do any business ,whatsoever, if they
didn't provide a decent carrier. Van's has sold nearly 8000 kits. How many
of those people could have picked up their kits in person? How many would
know how to obtain the best available carrier? There are two major carriers
that Van uses. He can give both of them his business while insuring the
customer gets the best value. Van has the responsibility of being courteous
and helpful when a customer spends 10-40 thousand dollars with them. If Van
called Roadway and asked them to revise the rate they charged Lloyd, or
else...., He would get a positive response. Ga-run-tee-ed. He has given
Roadway over $3 million business in the past 5 years.
I have been in the manufacturing business for 30 years. My products are
shipped on major carriers. My customers expect me to provide a reliable,
affordable carrier or at least guide them to find the carrier on their own.
For many businesses, shipping is a MAJOR part of the final product being
sold. Such is the case with Van's Aircraft. I'll bet 10-20 % of Van's
employees are involved in shipping the final product. While Van probably
has no interest in shipping (neither do I), He know's it is an integral
part of his product/business.
Gary, If I took $300 from your wallet, would you chase after me for a
little while, or would you just turn away and pound a few more rivets?
Would you tell your friends to watch out for me, or would you pound a few
more rivets? You would be pissed. I think Lloyd Morris is pissed. Thanks
for letting me bend your ear.<<
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 8/23/98 10:53:23 PM, you wrote:
<>
While, after reading that, I am almost embarrassed I brought up my problem.
Sounds like they have gone completely off the deep end. If you are getting
calls from a collection agency, you can be pretty sure you have been reported
to a credit bureau. Take it small claims court, if your credit has been
damaged.
Lloyd Morris
RV-6, Finish kit
Lago Vista, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
Mike,
I cut the forward flanges off so it will fit the shape of the seat pan.
This seems to work, but I am still building. Only time will tell how
this works out after hours of use. I can't wait to find out.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6, working on canopy, static system, & empenage attachment.
>From owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Sat Aug 22 21:38:20 1998
>Received: (from daemon@localhost)
(PDT)
>Message-Id: <199808230436.VAA14537(at)mailhost.cmc.net>
>From: "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net>
>To: "RV-List"
>Subject: RV-List: EF-607 R
>Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:44:59 -0700
>X-Priority: 3
>Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>I'm trimming my cardboard to fit the electric flap housing sides. The
>floorboards
>are not exactly flat how do you follow the curvature. The sides are
already
>bent that screw down on floors. Any help?
>
>Regards Mike Comeaux
>RV6QB
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
Andy,
First, there is a big difference between constant speed and fixed
pitch props as far as the variation of speed with altitude goes. You
didn't mention which you've got, so I'll talk about both types.
You will get the maximum true airspeed at any percentage power at the
highest altitude at which the engine can produce that amount of
horsepower. For a given amount of horsepower, you get more TAS (but
less IAS) at higher altitudes because the air is thinner. This is
true for any type of prop.
With a constant speed prop you will get maximum TAS at sea level, as
sea level is the max altitude at which the engine can produce full
power. Decreasing altitude by 2,000 ft would give you a higher TAS at
full throttle.
With a fixed pitch prop it is pretty hard to say for sure what will
happen if you decrease the altitude. If your prop is very rigid, you
should get more TAS at a lower altitude (if you don't have to
throttle back to keep from over revving). If your prop is a bit
flexible so that the pitch changes a bit with different conditions,
it is impossible to predict what result you will get.
Please note that the vast majority of my prop experience is with
constant speed props, so take all this fixed pitch stuff as just a
best guess.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Engineering Test Pilot (613) 952-4319 (work)
Transport Canada
Ottawa, Canada http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
>At full throttle cruise in my 6A at 10,000' (2750 rpm, 21" mp) my GPS
>slowly inches up and stabilizes at 195 mph.
>
>What then will my full throttle speed be at a lower altitude? (say
>2,000')
>
>Will it be lower?
>higher?
>about the same?
>
>? Higher speed because the engine is creating more power, or because the
>air is denser increasing the efficiency of the prop?
>
>? Lower speed because of increased drag due to the denser air?
>
>? or about the same because rpm is the only true factor in determining
>thrust and other the variables have little significance?
>
>If the answer is higher or lower, is there an altitude in which the
>variables come into equilibrium and the best speed per rpm setting can
>be obtained?
>
>Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine/prop roughness? |
<< Everything nice and smooth at take off power ,prop full fine.
Once we are approx 1000 agl climb/cruise to 2500 square, still smooth
At cruise when prop is pulled back to 2400 and less a roughness
develops and worsens as rpm is reduced. In the circuit at 14 inches
roughness is pronounced and on final when runway is made and power
pulled to idle a very noticeable roughness as engine goes to idle. Once
at idle power all returns to smooth. >>
Ken-
Have you had the engine/prop combo dynamically balanced? This can make a huge
difference.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
<< Now try this one out for size:... Back in March, I emailed the order
for my fuselage kit to Vans. They acknowledged receipt by email. A
month or so later, no charge had appeared on my Visa. When I emailed a
query, I was told that the original order had been lost, and that Vans
"prefers major orders by fax or letter". In the meantime, the NZ$ had
plummeted, so that my kit now costs me about NZ$1,000 (US$500) more. >>
Now I feel compelled to defend Van (who would have thunk it). It says
somewhere in the builders' agreement or kit order form, that all kit orders
must be made on the form by postal mail (not e-mail) because these are the
major assemblies of the aircraft that the builders' agreement covers. Orders
for spare parts and other options are handled more informally, I think.
We are sorry about the NZbuck, but I think it has more to do with Asia than
US.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | 6A Vertical Stab Mounting Question. |
The vertical stab seems to attach to the F612 bulkhead with bolts That
also hold the tie down ring and hinge bracket. It seems to me that there
should be a double of some sort on the front side of the 612 bulkhead. I
can't find any reference to any kind of reinforcement in this area. The
RV-6 vert stab mounts through a double f-612 bulkhead and also the
tailwheel rear mount. Any Ideas???
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I would like to be removed from your distribution/subscription list
please, as soon as possible. >>
Now that we have you, we won't let you go. We're like "Hotel California".
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
<< At full throttle cruise in my 6A at 10,000' (2750 rpm, 21" mp) my GPS
slowly inches up and stabilizes at 195 mph.
What then will my full throttle speed be at a lower altitude? (say
2,000')
>>
Try it and see! You will certainly use more fuel to go the SAME speed.
Assuming that you can get your engine to swallow the fuel & air at a high
enough rate, it might go a bit faster. Your prop will make the difference.
My ship does ~250MPH or so at 1500', and 240 at 10,000. Fuel burn is way
different- 10 GPH vs 25 GPH!!!!!!! OUCH!
Check six!
Mark
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
Listers,
Don't you think we've beat this thread to death. I believe things are being
said on the list that in no way would you say to someone in person.
There are probley two different sides to this thread, those that agree that
Van screwed-up and those that don't. I've e-mailed my opinion to Van
himself. I believe anyone thinking that Van's screwed-up should. That way
if you're going to get flamed, at least it will be by someone that can make
a difference ( in HIS shipping arrangements or OUR ordering practice )
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
<< At full throttle cruise in my 6A at 10,000' (2750 rpm, 21" mp) my GPS
slowly inches up and stabilizes at 195 mph.
What then will my full throttle speed be at a lower altitude? (say
2,000')
>>
Try it and see! You will certainly use more fuel to go the SAME speed.
Assuming that you can get your engine to swallow the fuel & air at a high
enough rate, it might go a bit faster. Your prop will make the difference.
My ship does ~250MPH or so at 1500', and 240 at 10,000. Fuel burn is way
different- 10 GPH vs 25 GPH!!!!!!! OUCH!
Check six!
Mark
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
<< At full throttle cruise in my 6A at 10,000' (2750 rpm, 21" mp) my GPS
slowly inches up and stabilizes at 195 mph.
What then will my full throttle speed be at a lower altitude? (say
2,000')
>>
Try it and see! You will certainly use more fuel to go the SAME speed.
Assuming that you can get your engine to swallow the fuel & air at a high
enough rate, it might go a bit faster. Your prop will make the difference.
My ship does ~250MPH or so at 1500', and 240 at 10,000. Fuel burn is way
different- 10 GPH vs 25 GPH!!!!!!! OUCH!
Check six!
Mark
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine/prop roughness? |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Ken,
It might be worth while to check your propellor tracking, try to get it
right on. A conical mount engine is going to be a little less smooth than
a dynafocal one. Having a dynamic balance done sometimes helps too. It
has been my experience that all 4 Cyl. Lycomings are happier at 2500 than
2400 but your problem sounds worse than normal.
Regards, Bill, N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org.showpg.mn.org> |
> Roadway lost my fusealge kit which was to be sent to Florida about a year
> ago. After discussing lost item with Vans I was sent another fuselage kit
> by Vans Via Roadway which I received and payed the shipping on. Meanwhile
> Roadway found the fuselage in New Mexico or Arizona or someplace quite
> distant from FL. The fuselage was sent back to Vans. I have received
> several threats for payment on the shipping cost of the lost fuselage the
> last one was from a collection agency. So far I've used file thirteen
> along with the other junk mail.
>
> Hoping for a court date
Hey -- they're just trying to run a business, and if they don't know your
side of the story, you can't expect them to be reasonable.
Call Roadway and tell *a person* what happened. *Or* call Van's and
tell them you're getting dunning notices about this and ask them to
clear it up.
But saying nothing to anyone doesn't even give them a chance to handle
this in an appropriate fashion.
-J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Builders in Daytona Beach |
Hello list,
It looks like I'll be heading to Daytona Beach, FL within the next 3 weeks or
so to work on my CFI/CFII/MEI ratings. If all goes well, I'll stay in town and
instruct for the flight school I trainied with.
I was wondering if there are any RV builders in the area who might need (or
allow) a helping hand from time to time. I've given up my RV-8 project for the
time being, but helping out on somebody else's project would sure ease my
withdrawal symptoms.
While I'm at it... if anybody knows anything (good or bad) about Phoenix
Southeast Aviation I'd love to hear it. Also, I'll be renting a studio or a
1-bedroom apartment near DAB, if anybody has any suggestions.
I just resubscribed to the list before I sent this, but if you feel it's more
appropriate, I would welcome private replies.
Best regards to all,
Rod Woodard
Loveland, Colorado and then
Daytona Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | CRACKS IN POWDERCOATING |
Listers, I am consider powdercoating landing gear mounts and all major
weldments (later engine and landing gear mounts). I want to do this in white
for best visual contrast of possible future cracks. I THINK I can get this
done for under $100 (exclusive engine and landing gear mounts).
My questions are:
1: is powdercoating brittle enough to propagate hairline cracks?
2: increased weight should be minimal, since powdercoating is about
3 coats thick (vs 2 coats for primer and paint). True or false?
3: is there a better color than white to show up cracks?
What have you been paying?
Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
> My ship does ~250MPH or so at 1500', and 240 at 10,000. Fuel burn is way
> different- 10 GPH vs 25 GPH!!!!!!! OUCH!
>
> Check six!
> Mark
At 250mph you don't need to check six.
Alex
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
One more comment of Bend over & shut up
I own a retail business and have been dealing with trucking companies for
many years. I must say that it is not a very good experience. The only
people who have any clout with trucking compainies is the Consignor
(shipper). I have had my share screw jobs from the trucking companies.
In defence of Vans, I would like to make the following comments. I have
over 40 people working for me, and I know that on occassion they make
decisions to customers that are not in my or the customers best interest.
(the comment about you are the consignee and it is your prob lem). I had
the misfortune of having my RV8 FUSELAGE kit arrive in a damaged condition.
It was concealed damage, the worst type from the standpoint of a
successful claim with a trucking company. I called the trucking company and
received the usual in you face answer that I expected. I than called Vans
and explained the problem to them, and their answer was WE WILL SEND YOU
THE TOP AND BOTTOM FUSELAGE SKINS AND THE FIREWALL SKIN AT NO CHARGE
TOMORROW. 10 days later my parts arrived at NO CHARGE.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
80124 running out of parts
----------
> From: SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Bend over & shut up
> Date: Saturday, August 22, 1998 9:02 PM
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> As I promised last week, here is the final outcome of the saga of the
finish
> kit that cost $624 to ship to Texas (approx. $350 more than it should
have).
> Despite some valiant efforts by some members of the RV List with
connections
> at Roadway we were not able to get anything worked out. For a while it
looked
> hopeful, but Roadway dug in their heels and said no discount. I got tired
of
> waiting and just paid the $624 in order to get back to building.
>
> Everyone on this list, who still has kits to order, needs to know this -
Vans
> offered no assistance what-so-ever with this problem. The only way to
protect
> yourself is to make it very, very clear to them that they are not to ship
you
> anything without first confirming the shipping cost to you. If it is not
> right, get it settled before shipping. I promise you that you will not
get one
> bit of assistance from Vans once they have their payment in hand. You can
not
> assume they will ship by the most economical means and, if you think they
> will, it can cost you just like it cost me. Also don't assume you will
get a
> call if the shipping is 2-3 time what it should be. As a matter of fact I
> asked them why they couldn't just pick up the phone and call a customer
when
> something was obviously out of line such as this. Their response, "We
don't
> have time to call to discuss shipping arrangements." Keep in mind, they
are
> spending your money on freight and have no incentive to shop for a good
price.
>
> Here is what we confirmed happened on this shipment. Apparently our zip
code
> is not a direct shipping point for Roadway who was the shipper. ABF would
have
> delivered for $250 to $300 since our zip is a direct shipping point for
them.
> I asked Vans why they didn't ship the finish kit ABF since it was so much
> cheaper. Their reply was, "We alternate shippers." Looks like I got in
the
> wrong sequence! One thing that is so frustrating about the whole thing is
that
> even Roadway has direct shipping points within 5-6 miles of our location
that
> would have qualified for the same discounts we would have gotten from
ABF. The
> finish kit could have easily been shipped by ABF with no problem; by
Roadway
> it could have gone to a terminal or friend's house and given us the
> opportunity to drive a couple of miles and pick it up with all the
discounts
> in place. Again, they are spending other people's money and there is no
> incentive to shop around unless YOU make them. If you forget that, you
will
> get this response, "We ship FOB which means that once it leaves our shop,
we
> have nothing to do with it. Any dispute is between the customer and the
> trucker." If Vans makes a mistake on your shipping their position will be
WE
> GOT OUR MONEY, WE CAN SHIP HOW WE PLEASE, TOO BAD IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE
RATE
> WE ACCEPTED FOR YOU. So much for customer service!
>
> Well, there it is. It is ancient history to me, as I am now on the finish
kit
> and don't even want to think about the whole sorry affair any more. I
> sincerely hope it benefits some other builders who still have kits to
order.
> Make them clarify everything prior to shipping and don't take any crap
from
> them. Check with other builders in your area and make sure you are
getting
> rates in the same ballpark. If not, make Vans work for your business by
> exploring your options. Don't feel like you are wasting their time
because
> they will sure waste your money if you let them.
>
> Lloyd Morris
> RV-6, Starting finish kit
> Lago Vista, TX
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CRACKS IN POWDERCOATING |
I'm thinking of doing the same thing. Please send all reply's to the
list.
Thanks,
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
Lothar Klingmuller wrote:
>
>
> Listers, I am consider powdercoating landing gear mounts and all major
> weldments (later engine and landing gear mounts). I want to do this in white
> for best visual contrast of possible future cracks. I THINK I can get this
> done for under $100 (exclusive engine and landing gear mounts).
> My questions are:
> 1: is powdercoating brittle enough to propagate hairline cracks?
> 2: increased weight should be minimal, since powdercoating is about
> 3 coats thick (vs 2 coats for primer and paint). True or false?
> 3: is there a better color than white to show up cracks?
>
> What have you been paying?
>
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO || Ready to jig fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Bend over & shut up |
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote
> We are sorry about the NZbuck,
Not half as sorry as we are! The dollar and our location means that an
American builder could buy three complete RV kits for the same number of
hours a Kiwi builder has to work to buy one! Am I upset about the dollar in
free fall? You bet! Can I do anything about it? Nope! Am I deterred? No way!
Besides, I got 0.5 dual in a Tiger Moth yesterday - first time in a open
cockpit, first time in a taildragger, first wheeler landing. What an
absolute ball!! Having done very little flying in the last ten years, it was
just what the doctor ordered. Economic recession? Coalition government
rollercoaster rides? The Asian crisis? WHO CARES!! I flew a taildragger and
not only survived, I LOVED IT!!
I can't wait to finish my RV-8!
________________
Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
Systems Manager Cell: +025-228-1244
Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751
442 Moray Place, Dunedin, New Zealand Email: chinch(at)arl.co.nz
RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
I have a new sterba 69x82 prop on my 0320 powered -4. My friend
has -4 with an 0360 with a sterba 70x82. Mine cruises at 174
(True) at 2500 rpm, his at 195 at 2500 rpm. His climb will put
mine to shame. We both max out at 2600 rpm. Our tachs are
correct. I am assuming the difference in cruise would be because
his is cleaner than mine. I suppose a little difference in the
props pitch, or design, would be normal, but, almost 30 mph
difference is a lot. Just how much speed loss should one expect
if things are a little out of adjustment, here and there? I did
outrun another -4 with an 0-320 the other day, now he wants to
try my prop. His ship is very clean, compared to mine, so, maybe
mine isn't as bad as I thought. But, why the slow cruise
numbers? (Just looking for that 200).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Vertical Stab Mounting Question. |
>
>The vertical stab seems to attach to the F612 bulkhead with bolts That
>also hold the tie down ring and hinge bracket. It seems to me that there
>should be a double of some sort on the front side of the 612 bulkhead. I
>can't find any reference to any kind of reinforcement in this area. The
>RV-6 vert stab mounts through a double f-612 bulkhead and also the
>tailwheel rear mount. Any Ideas???
Gary,
If you make up a doubler (I used 0.032), and then mount nutplates on
it, you will have a MUCH easier time at final assembly. Working with loose
nuts down at the bottom of the F-612 is not easy for those of use with
standard size hands....:^)
... Gil (easier with nutplates) Alexander
OTOH ... some 6 inch high elves with strong muscles might work....^)
RV6A, #20701, N64GA rsvd. finishing kit
N6GA does show in the available database, but is a 'revoked' number
>
>
>Gary Zilik
>6A s/n 22993.
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
| From: | chriskelhand(at)Juno.com (Kellie D Hand) |
>
Yes, to both of the above.
However, I hope others have not been discouraged from posting items that
may save some of us "only" $300. I am in the group that still considers
$300 an amount worth saving if possible. That's why I am building
slowly, one kit at a time... to save up enough for the next kit :)
I did not realize that not specifying the shipper could double my
shipping costs (which have been very reasonable for the tail and wing kit
I have so far). And I do not think that it is unreasonable to expect a
company to help out a customer that has been denied a shipping discount
routinely given to other customers of the same product. The shipping
volume of Van's pulls a great deal more weight than a single RV builder.
So thanks Lloyd for the heads up, I will know to check and specify the
shipping when I am able to order the fuselage kit.
Chris Hand
RV-6A, working on wings
Seaside, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chriskelhand(at)Juno.com (Kellie D Hand) |
Then follow the directions at the bottom of every post to the list.
writes:
>
>
>I would like to be removed from your distribution/subscription list
>please, as soon as possible.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CRACKS IN POWDERCOATING |
> 1: is powdercoating brittle enough to propagate hairline cracks?
> 2: increased weight should be minimal, since powdercoating is about
> 3 coats thick (vs 2 coats for primer and paint). True or false?
> 3: is there a better color than white to show up cracks?
>
1. yes
2. true
3. Any lighter color will do
DGM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
MICHAEL wrote:
>
>
> I have a new sterba 69x82 prop on my 0320 powered -4. My friend
> has -4 with an 0360 with a sterba 70x82. Mine cruises at 174
> (True) at 2500 rpm, his at 195 at 2500 rpm. His climb will put
> mine to shame. We both max out at 2600 rpm. Our tachs are
> correct.
Michael
Are you comparing numbers by flying side by side? Maybe you should try
his prop to see if that makes a difference.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Enter your name here" <mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly an RV |
Austin,
If you go then I'm gone also. You have a way of writing that is very
funny and interresting. As I said to you privatly before "You Break Me Up"
so stay and share your humor and thoughts. My RV-6 is just about done.
Don Champagne
"Mongo"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders in Daytona Beach |
>Hello list,
>
>It looks like I'll be heading to Daytona Beach, FL within the next 3
weeks or
>so to work on my CFI/CFII/MEI ratings. If all goes well, I'll stay in
town and
>instruct for the flight school I trainied with.
>
>I was wondering if there are any RV builders in the area who might need
(or
>allow) a helping hand from time to time. I've given up my RV-8 project
for the
>time being, but helping out on somebody else's project would sure ease
my
>withdrawal symptoms.
>
>While I'm at it... if anybody knows anything (good or bad) about
Phoenix
>Southeast Aviation I'd love to hear it. Also, I'll be renting a studio
or a
>1-bedroom apartment near DAB, if anybody has any suggestions.
>
>I just resubscribed to the list before I sent this, but if you feel
it's more
>appropriate, I would welcome private replies.
>
>Best regards to all,
>
>Rod Woodard
>Loveland, Colorado and then
>Daytona Beach, FL
Rod,
WOW! You weren't kidding about changing your life!! One big move as
well. I hope the professional pilot gig makes you happy. I've also
contemplated it myself. Hmmm....
Anyway, while you're in Florida, go visit Mudry Aviation at Flagler
County Airport. (NOrth of Daytona, on the coast). I took a five hour
aerobatics course with them last year and had a great time. If you want
some unusual attitude training, or to learn some competition maneuvers,
I highly recommend them.
Best of luck in all you do.
Brian Denk
Albuquerque, NM
RV8 #379
fuselage underway...finally!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blake Harral <bharral(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com wrote:
> At full throttle cruise in my 6A at 10,000' (2750 rpm, 21" mp) my GPS
> slowly inches up and stabilizes at 195 mph.
>
> What then will my full throttle speed be at a lower altitude? (say
> 2,000')
>
Your full throttle speed will be faster down low.
a non-turbo engine can produce 100% of its rated power at sea level.
Since you have more power available you will be faster down low,
assuming you are willing to run full throttle (I suspect your
prop may over-rev a bit more than it does a 10,000).
The Lyc engines are designed to be run for extended periods of time
at power settings of 75% and below. If you take off at full throttle
you will have 100% power and the amount of power avaiable at full
throttle will decrease while you are climbing. Somewhere in 8000-10000
foot range, full throttle will be about 75% power. Since this is the
maximum recommended power for extended periods of operation, it is not
a coincidence that quoted cruise speeds for non-turbo aircraft tend to
be at 8000-10000 feet, where full throttle is about 75% power.
How much faster will you be? Well, Van's literature shows that TOP
speed for an RV is about 10kts (4-5%) faster than the cruise speed, so
I would guess that you might see around 206 mph close to sea level.
This beats Van's quoted figures - Do you have a big engine?,
exceptionally
clean, lightweight airframe? Let us know.
I don't think the less drag from the thinner air a altitude quite makes
up for the reduction in available engine power. I find terrain
clearance,
temperature, and winds aloft are the biggest influence on my choice of
cruise alititudes.
Blake Harral
RV-4 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Eyerobics software info wanted |
Judi and I were investigating the Fly-mart at Oshkosh when she dragged
me into a booth selling 'Eyerobics' software (I believe that's what they
called it). She was interested in the medical basis for their product;
I enjoyed the shade and paid little attention. Anyway, on returning
home, she mentioned it to some of her colleagues and they expressed
interest, but she has misplaced the brochures she was given. If anyone
spotted these folks and knows how to contact them, we'd appreciate it.
An Internet search has come up blank as has a perusal of my stack of
aviation magazines.
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Michael,
This could be partly a difference in airspeed errors. Are these TAS
numbers calculated from GPS readings, or by correcting the IAS
readings? Depending on how the static systems are set up, the
indicated airspeeds could be in error by 10 or 20 mph.
If all you need to be happy is to see 200 TAS (based on IAS), just
move your static port to the upper wing about 18 inches back. You
will see a huge increase in indicated airspeeds ;-) Unfortunately,
your actual TAS won't change :-(
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Engineering Test Pilot (613) 952-4319 (work)
Transport Canada
Ottawa, Canada http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
>I have a new sterba 69x82 prop on my 0320 powered -4. My friend
>has -4 with an 0360 with a sterba 70x82. Mine cruises at 174
>(True) at 2500 rpm, his at 195 at 2500 rpm. His climb will put
>mine to shame. We both max out at 2600 rpm. Our tachs are
>correct. I am assuming the difference in cruise would be because
>his is cleaner than mine. I suppose a little difference in the
>props pitch, or design, would be normal, but, almost 30 mph
>difference is a lot. Just how much speed loss should one expect
>if things are a little out of adjustment, here and there? I did
>outrun another -4 with an 0-320 the other day, now he wants to
>try my prop. His ship is very clean, compared to mine, so, maybe
>mine isn't as bad as I thought. But, why the slow cruise
>numbers? (Just looking for that 200).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Vertical Stab Mounting Question. |
>The vertical stab seems to attach to the F612 bulkhead with bolts
>That also hold the tie down ring and hinge bracket. It seems to me
>that there should be a double of some sort on the front side of the
>612 bulkhead. I can't find any reference to any kind of
>reinforcement in this area. The RV-6 vert stab mounts through a
>double f-612 bulkhead and also the tailwheel rear mount. Any
>Ideas???
You can't find a doubler because there isn't one. Some have put a
doubler back there to allow them to use anchor nuts so that it's
easier to get the VS on and off. I figured out a way to do the job
without the doubler. I also used the bolt pattern used on the RV-6
and used George Orndorff's tie down block on F611. To me, the tied
down ring sent by Van's was not that good; so, I opted for a change.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Working on the cowl)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | VM1000 info needed |
Listers:
Can one of y'all tell me exactly how the display on one of these things
mounts, and it's dimensions, more or less? I have a full size picture to plan
the panel, but what sort of attachments are in the back? How thick is it? How
about the annunciator panel?
Thanks
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)Adobe.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing skin rivet sequence ? |
Hi Russell,
I riveted the leading edge and top skins before I started my tanks. This
makes the wing very solid for fitting the tank skin with the staps and
also allows you to get an exact fit of the tank skin and top main skin
when building the tank.
This worked great for me.
Good Luck!
-Jeff Hawkins
RV-8 #563
Suwanee, Georgia
>
>Howdy everyone,
>
>I just finished riveting the leading edges to the spars on my RV-8 wings, and
>was contemplating what to do next. The procedure calls for the tanks next, but
>is there any reason I can't go ahead and rivet the top main skins on? I realize
>that I need to countersink top side of the spar where the tank screws will go,
>and cut out the overlap corner of the inboard skin where it sits over the flap.
>Is there anything else I'm missing?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>Kolb SlingShot N8754K (for sale)
>RV-8, 80587 (putting off the tanks as long as possible)
>rad(at)pen.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Acknowlegement -Reply |
Welcome back "Corsair". Thought that you would be gone for good.
T.Nguyen
>>> "Corsair" 08/21/98 05:41pm >>>
Alright..alright..I shall return...May I thank the many great pilots and
builders out there who wrote and who felt that sometimes stories help
give
them a boost to get that RV done. What a band of brothers we are ! What
a
lot of great names I see who have given all of us some useful stuff to
help us along. At this time, I have about 154 posts that I have saved from
people who have taught me things I would not have known otherwise.
Most of
this is too good to lose into cyberspace and is in fact never obsolete.
I have been flying since I was 17, but am really a low time pilot by
any measure. I had more enthusiasm than money. I would go out to the
field
on my day off even though I was rained out, I loved to look at the
airplanes tied out there just beyond the windows and watch the rain run
in
rivulets down the chord of the wings. Still no flying that day, but I would
go out and climb in and sit and just smell the smells of aircraft. When I
was young and a bit stupid, I would walk to the fence and stand behind
the
airliners of the day as they started up their big radials one by one. The
props would turn over slowly and there was a puff of smoke and a few
licks
of flame which cleared to peacock blue at dusk. The props would turn
faster
and blow all that cloud of oil smoke back to me as I stood in the
slipstream hanging onto the fence and then it was clear and all four
engines were just roaring silver discs and they would taxi out and my
hair
would sit back down again. I loved it all...I don't know why, but I love to
fly when the VFR is at minimums. Not many others up, rain running uphill
on
the windscreen, respect and awe for what you see of nature outside
the
1/8th " plexi that keeps you warm and dry. These days I would practice
my
forced landings in an era when there was lots of space and no class
airspace.
I would glide deadstick down to a pasture and when I could wait no
longer, push in full throttle and climb away, just over the heads of the
poor cows who were so startled that they gave chocolate milk for 2
days. I
was good....except when I was so full of myself that I forgot my call
sign,
landed the wrong way, fast, in a rainstorm, and caused a Hercules to
wait
his departure for me. Ah youth ! Tower asked me in for a visit that day.
No tea,... just conversation. When RVs came along, I knew a
thoroughbred
when I saw it, and although she likes to run with the bit in her teeth, and
I am a much older rider by now, I thank God and my lucky stars that I
have
been along for the ride and also for the opportunity that RVs have
provided
for me to come in touch with such a fine bunch of Rvers.
People like you all are what make the journey here all the more
worthwhile.
I'd like to fly along with you, and if , when you are up there, and you
look out at 7 o'clock, you just may see a fast RV beginning to form up on
you. I'll waggle my wings and salute you, bank gently down and away
where
you will lose me among the patchwork of greens and browns, and
yellows, I
will now be hard to see for you are traveling too fast, but I,.. stick
back, waiting, waiting, see the green blur of the turf as it rises up to
meet me and RV. I'll feel the grasp of Mother earth as we roll out and
wend our way home. The geese look at us with some disdain as all our
flying
is over for this day. Home again, feeling like an aviator and away for the
night. The geese...Rv.... and me.... deep in the arms of Morpheous.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sharlene Shipley or Bruce Knoll <snsbfk(at)mail.sage.net> |
| Subject: | Shipping Charges |
To Whom It May Concern:
On 8-23-98 Jim Nolan wrote:
"I've e-mailed my opinion to Van
himself. I believe anyone thinking that Van's screwed-up should. That way
if you're going to get flamed, at least it will be by someone that can make
a difference ( in HIS shipping arrangements or OUR ordering practice )"
I too have directly written Van personally with questions as how to insure,
at the time of ordering, we can know what the shipping charges will be. To
date I have NOT received a response, nor has the list heard from Vans. NOT
GOOD PUBLIC RELATIONS! I had planned on ordering a 6A QB this year,
empennage in progress. I wonder if I should wait a while?
BFK
They are one of the sponsors and have an ad almost
weekly.
Ed Cole
RV6A Fuse skins...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VM1000 info needed |
Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Listers:
>
> Can one of y'all tell me exactly how the display on one of these things
> mounts, and it's dimensions, more or less? I have a full size picture to plan
> the panel, but what sort of attachments are in the back? How thick is it? How
> about the annunciator panel?
>
> Thanks
> Check six!
> Mark
>
Mark,
The display is less than 1/2 " thick including the frame around the
glass LCD
display. The back is just a printed circuit board with one ribbon cable
connector. If you need exact dimensions, let me know.
I don't have the annunciator panel, but would expect it to look the
same.
Ed Cole
RV6A Fuse skins
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat hinges in riveting in a 6 |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I did exactly that...I pop riveted them in place on the floor, being
>sure to
>avoid the seat ribs, so that you can take the seat pans in and out for
>maintenence..
>
>You can see my installation at:
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A(197AB) Arizona
Paul,
Noticed your post and thought I would mention that it is important that
you have the seat pans attached with the same strength provided in the
original fasteners that are called out in the plans.
The seat/belly area should be considered structural (particularly the
forward ramp portion) because it boxes the large open area of the
fuselage and helps stiffen the spar centersection area.
I think it is highly unlikely that you would ever need top remove this
portion of the seat pan for maint., but as long as you use an exceptable
# of screws it should be ok.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org.showpg.mn.org> |
I deleted the letter from the guy whose wife was interested in the eye
exercises. Then I saw the following paragraph in AvWeb this week. I
don't know if it's the same thing as what your wife saw, but here it
is... -Joe
VISION AEROBICS IMPROVES SCANNING ABILITY FOR PILOTS
Every pilot knows that scanning is an essential visual skill. Vision
Aerobics patented eye exercise software strengthens and trains the eye
muscles that control scanning. Using Vision Aerobics regularly can
improve night vision, peripheral vision, and reaction time. Pilots who
load Vision Aerobics into their laptops can exercise their eye muscles
anywhere and anytime. The cost is just $99, and your satisfaction is
guaranteed. Learn more at <http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/vision>.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyerobics software info wanted |
My thanks to all who responded and told me to check out the AVWEB pages,
and then I found the ad at the end of this weeks AVFlash. Talk about
timing.
PatK
Patrick Kelley wrote:
>
>
> Judi and I were investigating the Fly-mart at Oshkosh when she dragged
> me into a booth selling 'Eyerobics' software (I believe that's what they
> called it). She was interested in the medical basis for their product;
> I enjoyed the shade and paid little attention. Anyway, on returning
> home, she mentioned it to some of her colleagues and they expressed
> interest, but she has misplaced the brochures she was given. If anyone
> spotted these folks and knows how to contact them, we'd appreciate it.
> An Internet search has come up blank as has a perusal of my stack of
> aviation magazines.
>
> PatK - RV-6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bend over stuff, no flame |
For what it's worth, and I had no idea it was done anyway different.
When I was having mine shipped, the only thing was the finish kit. I
ordered it and someone, don't know if it was Vans or the frt. co., talked to
me about delivery directions. In it, it came up that the trucking co.
didn't have an agent here in town, that if I wasn't at home when the driver
got into town, it would be immediately taken somewhere else and turned over
to a 'local' delivery co. It would cost considerably more. In the
discussion, I learned that it was about $200.00 more because I was having it
shipped to my home address. If a local business address was used, it would
save that much. Bingo, I had it delivered to the feed/ fertilizer business
where I use to work, the delivery truck would wait for normal business hours
to deliver before taking to another 'local' delivery co.. Then picked it up
with my Pickum up truck. I offered to pay the feed/fert. co., but the guy
that use to work for me wouldn't let me pay, they helped me load it on my
truck and couldn't believe that it was and 'airplane' in that box.
I know that everyone isn't that lucky, but if you can talk to one of your
local businesses that normally gets frt. , they may help you out and save
you bucks. Yep, I'm one of the conservative ones. My wife says I'm down
right cheap. Hell, $200.00 is more than I use to make in a month!!
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
________________________________________________________________________________
To who ever was asking info about the eye thing.
avweb has an ad about Vision Aerobics that is suppose to improve scanning
ability for pilots.
I don't know anything other than that. For all I know, it may be just
pictures of pretty ladies on the screen. That is how I exercise my aging
eyes.
It says to learn more at <http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/vision>.
Good looking to you!!
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Partiain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com> |
For Sale 1995 RV-4 185 TTSN , 0320 D1A 160 HP, 185TTSN , Hartzell C/S Prop
185 TTSN, K/N Air Filter, Stainless exhaust pipes with crossover . Single
heater muff. Carburetor heat. Alternator cooling tube, Magneto cooling
tubes, Piper oil cooler, Fuel primer.
Terra 760D Com ,Terra 250D xpdr ,Apollo 360 moving map GPS ,ELT , PSII 1000
intercom, Vertical card compass, Altimeter, VSI ,Electronics International
CHT EGT OAT , Oil Pressure, Fuel pressure, Amp/Volt meter, Electronic Tach,
Lighting on All instruments with dimmer switch.
Navigation Lights, Rear position light, Strobes on wing tips, Dual landing
Lights enclosed in wing tips, Electric Flaps, Locking canopy (keyed same as
ignition), Wood stick grip,
Cabin heat with front and rear outlets, Two fresh air vents located on
canopy skirt.
Professional Paint, White with Blue stripping, Interior panels light Grey
with medium Grey Leather seats
Temper foam, Dark Gray Carpet , Firewall
insulation ,CD player
This is a very nice plane, always kept in a hanger and professionally
maintained. All avionics purchased new November 1996 and installed
professionally.
All plans and instrument documentation. Complete Logs
Cruise 187 mph @ 8.5 gph
Annual due 8/98
$56,000.00
Price includes 8/98 annual (yet to be inspected)
Tony Partain
314-894-0828
Saint Louis MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hintenlang" <dhinten(at)nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> |
| Subject: | Eyerobics software info wanted |
Just ran across it-
Dave
VISION AEROBICS IMPROVES SCANNING ABILITY FOR PILOTS
Every pilot knows that scanning is an essential visual skill. Vision
Aerobics patented eye exercise software strengthens and trains the eye
muscles that control scanning. Using Vision Aerobics regularly can
improve night vision, peripheral vision, and reaction time. Pilots who
load Vision Aerobics into their laptops can exercise their eye muscles
anywhere and anytime. The cost is just $99, and your satisfaction is
guaranteed. Learn more at <http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/vision>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Patrick Kelley
> Sent: Monday, August 24, 1998 6:22 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Eyerobics software info wanted
>
>
>
> Judi and I were investigating the Fly-mart at Oshkosh when she dragged
> me into a booth selling 'Eyerobics' software (I believe that's what they
> called it). She was interested in the medical basis for their product;
> I enjoyed the shade and paid little attention. Anyway, on returning
> home, she mentioned it to some of her colleagues and they expressed
> interest, but she has misplaced the brochures she was given. If anyone
> spotted these folks and knows how to contact them, we'd appreciate it.
> An Internet search has come up blank as has a perusal of my stack of
> aviation magazines.
>
> PatK - RV-6A
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
In a message dated 8/23/98 2:44:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com writes:
<< At full throttle cruise in my 6A at 10,000' (2750 rpm, 21" mp) my GPS
slowly inches up and stabilizes at 195 mph.>>
Wow, that's a lot of RPM for 10,000'. I will assume that you have a fixed
pitch prop and that you are refering to TAS. At 10,000, at full throttle, you
are making about 68% power. At sea level, at full throttle, you will make
100% power. However, for the same power setting (lets say 75%) your TAS will
be the same or slightly higher ( 1 or 2 kts) at a higher altitude (your IAS
will be less).
At sea level my RV will max at about 174 kts. At 75% power at sea level I'll
see about 162 kts. At 8,000', full throttle (75% power) I'll see 164 -
166kts.
Now back to your aircraft. If you can get 2,750 rpm at 10,000' I'm sure that
you can get about 2,900 rpm at sea level. This surely is a climb prop. Have
you heard of the 48 rule for setting power (10% the rpm + MP = power...48
75%. Every change of 3 = 10%)? Because your prop is pitched so high, you
should use 50 as your reference.
Go to sea level and set power until you get the magic 50, such as 2,400 rpm
and 26 in MP. Calculate your TAS. Then go to 8,000 and fire-wall the
airplane. I'll bet that you show about the same TAS with a power setting of
about (my guess) 2,800 rpm and 22 in MP.
So, for the same power setting TAS will be about the same regardless of
altitude. However, since you can make more power at lower altitudes your TAS
will increase.
Does this answer your question?
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
> Mark
If you ship will do 250, would you mind giving the particulars as to what makes
it
so fast? Many strive to get the best power, prop, streamlining, etc.
Thanks
Joe Walker
Rebuilding RV6
Houston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 with high compression |
>Granted there is no substitute for money and horsepower, but does anyone
>have an opinion on this "souped-up 0-320" with a c/s prop idea.
That is the road I took when overhauling the O-320 in my RV-4. I still
have the fixed-pitch prop which I may have to change. I decided to do this
because I already had the O-320 and wouldn't have to change things firewall
forward too much.
If I were starting from scratch and buying a new engine I would buy an
O-360 or IO-360 with CS prop.
Remember, you can always hot-rod the O-360 for even more power. ;^)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
<< So, for the same power setting TAS will be about the same regardless of
altitude. However, since you can make more power at lower altitudes your TAS
will increase.
snip...
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
Now hang on a minute there, pilgrim (use a John Wayne accent). I'll bet you
mean IAS, as TAS increases with altitude, given the same power output.
I can't remember the rate of power drop-off with altitude increase, as opposed
to TAS increase- is it 3% per 1000' power drop-off, compared to 2%/1000' TAS
increase? This particular 'rule of thumb' leaked out thru the last hole I
drilled in my thumb..
This rule would suggest a 20% higher speed at altitude from the same fuel burn
at sea level. Sounds about right. How about it, BD?
Check six!
Mark
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
<< So, for the same power setting TAS will be about the same regardless of
altitude. However, since you can make more power at lower altitudes your TAS
will increase.
snip...
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
Now hang on a minute there, pilgrim (use a John Wayne accent). I'll bet you
mean IAS, as TAS increases with altitude, given the same power output.
I can't remember the rate of power drop-off with altitude increase, as opposed
to TAS increase- is it 3% per 1000' power drop-off, compared to 2%/1000' TAS
increase? This particular 'rule of thumb' leaked out thru the last hole I
drilled in my thumb..
This rule would suggest a 20% higher speed at altitude from the same fuel burn
at sea level. Sounds about right. How about it, BD?
Check six!
Mark
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | London UK Based RV potential |
Im an American living for 5 yrs in London...
i was wondering if anyone can be of assistance in the following......are
there any RV builders in the London UK area that may be able to share some
construction / RV experiences with me. I'm getting my PPL now and am very
keen on going down the RV route...
any suggestions would be most appreciated
I thank you all in advance for your input.
Regards
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 wing skin rivet sequence ? |
Jeff, one stupid question, but why are you holding off on putting the tanks
in?
Jay in London
Potential builder
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Hawkins <jah(at)Adobe.COM>
Date: 24 August 1998 17:07
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 wing skin rivet sequence ?
>
>Hi Russell,
>
>I riveted the leading edge and top skins before I started my tanks. This
>makes the wing very solid for fitting the tank skin with the staps and
>also allows you to get an exact fit of the tank skin and top main skin
>when building the tank.
>
>This worked great for me.
>
>Good Luck!
>
>-Jeff Hawkins
>RV-8 #563
>Suwanee, Georgia
>
>>
>>Howdy everyone,
>>
>>I just finished riveting the leading edges to the spars on my RV-8 wings,
and
>>was contemplating what to do next. The procedure calls for the tanks
next, but
>>is there any reason I can't go ahead and rivet the top main skins on? I
realize
>>that I need to countersink top side of the spar where the tank screws will
go,
>>and cut out the overlap corner of the inboard skin where it sits over the
flap.
>>Is there anything else I'm missing?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Russell Duffy
>>Navarre, FL
>>Kolb SlingShot N8754K (for sale)
>>RV-8, 80587 (putting off the tanks as long as possible)
>>rad(at)pen.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Speeds and altitudes |
Michael Lott was comparing speeds to a friend's same engine RV:
Differences might also be due to engines not producing the same power. This would
not be at all surprising.
Hal Kempthorne
(Can cowl hinges cause the flu?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
<< > Mark
If you ship will do 250, would you mind giving the particulars as to what
makes it
so fast? Many strive to get the best power, prop, streamlining, etc.
Check your Sport aviation Sept 97 p 48. My bird. Not everybody needs one, but
those who do, know who they are.
Why so fast? It's horsepower, man! I'd guess we all have a bit of Tim Taylor
in us.
Now, don't any of you think for a minute I normally ride around with those
speeds and fuel flows! But, I had to do it once!
Email me off list for futher info, or use "rocket" as the word in your
favorite search engine..
Check six!
Mark
Thanks
Joe Walker
Rebuilding RV6
Houston, Texas
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
<< > Mark
If you ship will do 250, would you mind giving the particulars as to what
makes it
so fast? Many strive to get the best power, prop, streamlining, etc.
Check your Sport aviation Sept 97 p 48. My bird. Not everybody needs one, but
those who do, know who they are.
Why so fast? It's horsepower, man! I'd guess we all have a bit of Tim Taylor
in us.
Now, don't any of you think for a minute I normally ride around with those
speeds and fuel flows! But, I had to do it once!
Email me off list for futher info, or use "rocket" as the word in your
favorite search engine..
Check six!
Mark
Thanks
Joe Walker
Rebuilding RV6
Houston, Texas
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com> |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude -Reply |
Joe,
He got a Rocket. That is why it is so fast.
T.Nguyen
>>> Joe Walker <joewalk@hal-pc.org> 08/24/98 01:37pm >>>
> Mark
If you ship will do 250, would you mind giving the particulars as to what
makes it
so fast? Many strive to get the best power, prop, streamlining, etc.
Thanks
Joe Walker
Rebuilding RV6
Houston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
When my fuse kit was being crated for shipping I got a call from Tom at
Vans. He wanted to know if they could crate/ship an extra fuse skin with my
kit for a builder located about 125 miles north of me. Seems this other
builder somehow damaged a skin and Vans went out of their way to try to
help him save shipping costs by contacting me. As it turned out the other
builder chose to pay the shipping/crating and have the skin sent directly
to him, but the point is that Vans went beyond the norm to save this guy
some bucks.
I will verify shipping costs before having my finishing kit shipped
(thanks for the heads up, I wouldnt have thought it necessary previously)
but I gotta believe that what happened here was an anomaly, not SOP for Vans.
Mike Wills
RV-4(fuse)
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>In a message dated 8/23/98 3:35:14 PM, you wrote:
> I know in my company, we will bend over
>backward for a customer that gives us twenty bucks. For the cost of an RV, I
>would fly cross the country and take them out to lunch.
>
>
>Lloyd Morris
>RV-6, Finish kit
>Lago Vista, TX
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
In a message dated 8/24/98 2:28:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Mlfred(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Now hang on a minute there, pilgrim (use a John Wayne accent). I'll bet you
mean IAS, as TAS increases with altitude, given the same power output.>>
Well howdy partner! Yeah, my brain was in IMC this morning. True Airspeed
does increase with altitude for a constant power setting.
<< I can't remember the rate of power drop-off with
<< altitude increase, as opposed to TAS increase-
<< is it 3% per 1000' power drop-off, compared to
<< 2%/1000' TAS increase? This particular 'rule of
<< thumb' leaked out thru the last hole I drilled in my
<< thumb..
I agree with the 3%/1000' for power but doesn't the 2%/1000' apply to IAS?
<< This rule would suggest a 20% higher speed at
<< altitude from the same fuel burn at sea level.
<< Sounds about right. How about it, BD?
20% does sound high. 10% sounds correct.
I'm sure we'll get this all worked-out in 70 or 80 e-mails or so.
Move 'em on out!
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
----------
> From: vans(at)europa.com
> To: JimNolan
> Subject: Re: Shipping Charges
> Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 11:24 AM
>
> It bothers us too but we CANNOT apparently make evryone happy all the
> time... we ship FOB VAN's and give our builders the nearly 50% dicount that
> is afforded Van's by Roadway for doing our shipping with them... we cannot
> always forsee individual problems.... we can only try to help as much as
> possible.. Tom at Van's
>
> >Van,
> > Lloyd Morris from Lago Vista, Tx. has indicated on the RV List that he
has
> >been charged excessive shipping charges for a finishing kit for his 6. He also
> >stated that he could not resolve this problem.
> > While I have only had a rewarding experience with you and your company
> >that doesn't mean everyone will. As one of your deciples ( so to speak ) it
> >bothers me that one of us hasn't had the same rewarding experience I had
> >when I built my 4.
> > I believe the $100.00 finders program was started because you realized
> >the importance of each builders attitude toward you and your product.
> > You probley don't remember Bernie McComb ( him and his wife died in
> >a 4 ) but he was the one singing your praises that inspired me to go ahead
> >and order a kit from you. I remember Bernie looked like he couldn't have
> >afforded the gas to get to MERFI, but he and his wife were there singing
> >the praises of you and your 4.
> > I don't know Lloyd Morris and will probley never meet him but it bothers
> >me that his voice isn't in tune with the rest of us.
> >
> >Jim Nolan
> >N444JN
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Bill Benedict G.M., or Tom Green, or Ken Scott or the office staff @
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | F&C Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Builders/Flyers in Florida |
My wife and I will be coming to Florida in Feb. for a visit (I'm a FL
cracker). We would like to visit projects and flying RV 6's or 6A's
near the Orlando area (within 60 miles). Anybody interested?? We are
building an RV-6A, reserved N299RV.
Fred Hiatt, hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
>(Ask Beech about the
>Starship or Mooney about the Porsche)
The Starship could not carry the same load over the same distances as a
more conventional aircraft of aluminum monocoque construction. The Porsche
Mooney was more expensive, more complex, and slower than its
Lycoming-powered counterpart. The failure of both aircraft in the
marketplace was purely one of dollars and cents, not because pilots are
resistant to change.
Speaking of the cost of new technology, I was considering adding Unison's
(Slick Mags) "Lazar" electronic ignition to my O-320 this time around until
I compared the cost of the ignition system with the fuel savings. By my
calculation I would have to keep the ignition for about 2,500 hours before
I broke even. Given that I would probably overhaul the engine by then
(assuming I still had the airplane), it looked to my like I would never
really break even. As a result, my O-320 has two new standard Slick mags.
Now the Lightspeed ignition on the other hand ... ;^)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
Hm, the lover corner of Maryland sounds like a very nice place, indeed!
Tom Craig-Stearman
>Hello , My name is Rich and I just bought a kit this year in Oshlosh
>also. Im boung to have lots of questions and will need alot of advice.
>Im located in the lover corner of MD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carol Richards <crcar(at)cc.newcastle.edu.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyerobics software info wanted |
Try 'Natural Vision Improvement', a book by Janet Goodrich from the
Viking Press. About $20. The notes on the cover say: Sharpen normal
vision; develop eye coordination; reduce stress and relieve discomfort;free
you of 'old age' reading specs....
It's a bit touchy-feely new age but there are some good points - the main
theme, like taking up a musical instrument, is PRACTICE the exercises.
Back to the aeroplane....
Sam Richards, RV-6 Skins going on wings (at last)
Newcastle Australia>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
>I use AvBlend (Lenckite) with straight 100W
>AD oil in my new Lyc O-360 because the straight weights protect better than
>multi-vis
I would like to see you prove that statement. Lubricity and viscosity are
not directly connected. I believe that if that were unconditionally true,
we would be running straight weight oils in our automobiles and, frankly, I
suspect that the auto industry does a lot more testing of lubricants than
does the aviation industry.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Brake Pad Break-in |
A while back some one on the list had problems breaking in their brake pads. I
decided to call up Cleveland and got this response which is verbatim out of their
maintenance manual.
"
Conditioning Procedures
When new linings are installed, it is important to condition them properly to obtain
the service life designed into them. The metallic and organic linings are
not conditioned in the same manner because they have different operating characteristics.
Separate conditioning procedures are given for metallic and organic
linings.
_______________________________
Nonasbestos Organic Linings
1. Taxi aircraft for 1500 feet with engine at 1700 RPM applying brake pedal force
as needed to develop a 5-10 mph taxi speed.
2. Allow brakes to cool for 10 to 15 minutes.
3. Apply brakes and check for restraint at high static throttle. If brakes hold,
conditioning is complete.
4. If brakes cannot hold aircraft during static run up, allow brakes to completely
cool and repeat steps 1 through 3.
_______________________________
Metallic Linings
1. Perform two (2) consecutive full stop braking applications from 30 to 35 knots.
Do not allow the brake discs to cool substantially between the stops.
2. Allow the brakes to cool for 10 to 15 minutes.
3. Apply brakes and check for restraint at high static throttle. If brakes hold,
conditioning is complete.
4. If brakes cannot hold aircraft during static run up, allow brakes to completely
cool and repeat steps 1 through 3.
_______________________________
CAUTION: Due to the efficiency of these brakes, extreme hard braking on aircraft
with tail wheels could result in lifting the tail from the ground.
_______________________________
These conditioning procedures will wear off high spots and generate sufficient
heat to create a thin layer of glazed material at the lining friction surface.
Normal brake usage should generate enough heat to maintain the glaze throughout
the life of the lining.
Properly conditioned linings will provide many hours of maintenance free service.
A visual inspection of the brake disc will indicate the lining condition.
A smooth surface, one without grooves, indicates the linings are properly glazed.
If the disc is rough (grooved), the linings must be reglazed. The conditioning
procedure should be performed whenever the rough disc condition is observed.
Light use, such as in taxiing, will cause the glaze to be worn rapidly.
"
One way to tell if you have organic or metallic linings is by looking at the surface
of the pad. If it has rivet holes in it, it is organic. The metallics
are bonded to a steel carrier plate which then rivetted to the backing plate.
Something I learned from my conversation with Cleveland technical support was that
the glaze on the pad's surface contributes to the pad's strength. Without
the glaze the pad will break up. Another surprise was that they maintain that
brakes are designed to be used. The hard brake action to make that turnoff
before being swallowed by an airliner is actually good for your brakes.
I hope this helps someone.
Brian Eckstein
6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
>
>
>Listers,
> Don't you think we've beat this thread to death. I believe things are
being
>said on the list that in no way would you say to someone in person.
> There are probley two different sides to this thread, those that
agree that
>Van screwed-up and those that don't. I've e-mailed my opinion to Van
>himself. I believe anyone thinking that Van's screwed-up should. That way
>if you're going to get flamed, at least it will be by someone that can make
>a difference ( in HIS shipping arrangements or OUR ordering practice )
>
>Jim Nolan
>N444JN
>
>
>
>
Louis I. Willig
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Binzer" <robinzer(at)seidata.com> |
Am about to finish the HS. It occurs to me that I have enclosed some
areas in the Horzontal Stabilizer that has no provision for draining
condensation. I have found nothing in the construction manual on this
question. Have I missed something? It bothers me to think of the
possible condensation building up and adding weight to the tail section.
Bob Binzer, Tailfeathers, Madison, Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CRACKS IN POWDERCOATING |
Lotharn The Eastwood Company, http://www.eastwoodco.com/ , has a do it at
home powder coat kit that looks interesting. I have no firsthand knowledge
as I elected to prime and paint for now, though that might change. You do
have to get an oven though, otherwise your roasts taste funny ;)
Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
>Listers, I am consider powdercoating landing gear mounts and all major
>weldments (later engine and landing gear mounts). I want to do this in
white
>for best visual contrast of possible future cracks. I THINK I can get
this
>done for under $100 (exclusive engine and landing gear mounts).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
Chris, I think many of us are jealous!!
Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
>
>Besides, I got 0.5 dual in a Tiger Moth yesterday - first time in a open
>cockpit, first time in a taildragger, first wheeler landing. What an
>absolute ball!! Having done very little flying in the last ten years, it
was
>just what the doctor ordered. Economic recession? Coalition government
>rollercoaster rides? The Asian crisis? WHO CARES!! I flew a taildragger and
>not only survived, I LOVED IT!!
>
>Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyerobics software info wanted |
Patrick, I just ordered a copy of Vision Aerobics. That sounds like what
you mention. It is a series of eye exercises that give the focusing muscles
of your eyes a workout. No user report yet as I just installed it. I
ordered mine from an ad at AVWEB http://www.avweb.com/ . Vision Aerobics
Inc. , 908-219-1916. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov.,
Chandler, AZ
>
>Judi and I were investigating the Fly-mart at Oshkosh when she dragged
>me into a booth selling 'Eyerobics' software (I believe that's what they
>called it). >
>PatK - RV-6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Gascolator Location |
I am considering ordering a second ANDAIR gascolator for my RV-6. My
thinking is to mount one outside the fuselage next to the tank, one for
each side. It seems the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
Advantages:
1) Trap debris from the tank before it enters the selector valve then
the boost pump.
2) Places the bottom of the bowl at or near the low point on the fuel
system.
3) Eliminates the hot air and the cool air circuit necessary for
firewall mounting.
Disadvantages:
1) $125 more expensive
2) ???
I have not fit my wings yet so I am not sure how they will fit. Your
comments are welcomed.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 finish kit - canopy clecoed on and puttin' in systems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 with high compression |
Doug,
A hopped-up O-320 with C/S prop is an excellent choice. Van's RV-4
prototype uses this arrangement to good effect. Those who have flown it say
it makes a nice compromise. I elected to go with a hopped-up O-360 of 200
hp with a fixed-pitch Sensenich. I decided I could not justify the weight
and complexity of the C/S and found that the O-360 was only 10 - 15 lbs
heavier than the O-320 but could be made to produce much more power. I
elected to maximize thrust to weight. The counter argument is that the C/S
prop allows you to maximize the performance of whatever engine you do have,
thus the practical power difference between the O-360/FP and the O-320/CS
will not be so great. In the end you will not go wrong with either choice.
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST cutting the oil filler door.
>I am considering an 0-320 with high compression cylinders and
>pistons (constant speed prop installation) as an alternative to a more
>expensive 0-360/constant speed combination.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Eyerobics software info wanted |
Here is a more precise URL: http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/vision Jeff
Farrar
Subject: Re: RV-List: Eyerobics software info wanted
>Patrick, I just ordered a copy of Vision Aerobics. That sounds like what
>you mention. It is a series of eye exercises that give the focusing
muscles
>of your eyes a workout. No user report yet as I just installed it. I
>ordered mine from an ad at AVWEB http://www.avweb.com/ . Vision Aerobics
>Inc. , 908-219-1916. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in
Nov.,
>Chandler, AZ
>
>>
>>Judi and I were investigating the Fly-mart at Oshkosh when she dragged
>>me into a booth selling 'Eyerobics' software (I believe that's what they
>>called it). >
>>PatK - RV-6A
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
>
>What then will my full throttle speed be at a lower altitude? (say
>2,000')
>
>Will it be lower?
>higher?
>about the same?
TAS for a given thrust increases with a reduction in air density. Prop
efficiency decreases as air density decreases (as I recall). Power output
decreases as air density decreases given a normally asperated engine. So
WRT true airspeed, you have one parameter that says things will get better
as you go up and two that say things will get worse. What usually happens
is that there is some optimum density altitude at which the aircraft will
produce the greatest TAS and another altitude at which the aircraft will
produce the greatest efficiency (MPG).
Usually best TAS occurs at some altitude appreciably above sea level and
best efficiency occurs at some altitude above that. My experience with a
number of normally aspirated aircraft shows that best TAS will occur
somewhere between 4,000 and 8,000 feet density altitude.
So the trick is to go out and try it. Do a full throttle run at each
altitude and calculate TAS at each one. Using IAS is probably just fine
because you are looking for a relative number, not an absolute one, and the
pitot/static errors should be fairly consistent across the speeds in which
you are most interested. If you have something that will show you fuel
flow at each of these points you can guage relative efficiency at each
altitude as well. Crunch the numbers and you will then know where your
particular airplane performs best.
BTW, if you are into cross country air racing, you need this information.
You can then crunch in the winds aloft and calculate the altitude that will
produce greatest average groundspeed and/or max distance covered.
Sometimes being able to cover more distance even at a lower speed will
allow you to finish the race and and safely eliminate a fuel stop thus
making your "slower" speed faster overall.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: speed/power/altitude |
For some reason I keep getting multiple posts of Mark Frederick's messages;
anyone else?
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Gascolator Location |
Rick,
I mounted my gascolator between the left tank and the fuselage. It fits very well
in the -6. Just low enough for the drain to protrude thru the fairing. I
waited until the wings and fairings were fit before locating it. I also have a
flop tube in that tank. Fuel line routing worked out nicely.
Why would you want to use two of them? Mine is downstream (closer to the engine)
of the fuel selector and pump where the fuel from both tanks passes.
This may start the fuel filter vs. gascolator debate (always fun reading in the
archives) but I liked the idea having the slower velocity of the fuel in the
gascolator for objects to fall to the bottom instead of being lodged in a filter.
Just my opinion, though. Your milage may vary.
Laird in SoCal
RV-6 22923 (just happen to be doing that plumbing right now)
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Mon, Aug 24, 1998 4:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Gascolator Location
I am considering ordering a second ANDAIR gascolator for my RV-6. My
thinking is to mount one outside the fuselage next to the tank, one for
each side. It seems the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
Advantages:
1) Trap debris from the tank before it enters the selector valve then
the boost pump.
2) Places the bottom of the bowl at or near the low point on the fuel
system.
3) Eliminates the hot air and the cool air circuit necessary for
firewall mounting.
Disadvantages:
1) $125 more expensive
2) ???
I have not fit my wings yet so I am not sure how they will fit. Your
comments are welcomed.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 finish kit - canopy clecoed on and puttin' in systems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RBusick505(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator Location |
<< I am considering ordering a second ANDAIR gascolator for my RV-6. My
thinking is to mount one outside the fuselage next to the tank, one for
each side. It seems the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
Advantages: >>
I was thinking about how to do this with just one gascolator. With a little
tubing bending I think you will only need one. Use the fuel tube from the
fuel selector and run it back out the fuselage to the gascolator between wing
and fuselage and then reroute back into the fuselage and to the firewall.
I have not done this but would welcome comments on my thoughts.
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Taildraggers and self doubt |
>
> Chris, I think many of us are jealous!!
>
Ummm, it's worse than that. The last three entries in my log book are (in
order) 0.5 dual P51D Mustang, 0.5 dual AT6 Harvard (Texan) and 0.5 dual
Tiger Moth. My mum always said I got things bass ackwards.
To make this post even slightly RV related - the more I built, the more I
was getting worried that my -8 would be way too hot for me to handle, that I
was a lousy 100hr pilot, and taildraggerphobia was setting in.
My penny's worth of advice to anyone building without recent flying time (or
indeed *any* flying time) is to take some time out from building to get some
flying in, even if it's just half an hour every few months. DO it under the
watchful eye of a good instructor. DON'T be scared to try different types of
aircraft. Don't think it will make you proficient - it won't even make you
safe. But it WILL take the edge off that self doubt, and remind you why
you're spending all that time smooshing rivets.
For what it's worth, my LOOONNGGG term plan is to get my licence current
again (hopefully in the Tiger *grin*), and get experience in as many
different taildraggers as I can find, hire, beg and borrow. Then some
concentrated RV time. By that stage, I should be able to make an informed
decision about flight testing my own.
Chris
RV 80630
Dunedin, New Zealand
________________________________________________________________________________
I'm to the point of needing to install the rudder pedals, sticks and few other
items but can't/shouldn't w/o doing a finish paint on them and few other bits.
I need to choose a color scheme and in that paint shops can match any color,
it seems to make more sense to choose the upholstery first.
Question: Who do you like?
I've seen many different versions at fly in's but don't have much of a feel
for satisfaction vs. supplier. The archives have a bit of info. but I'd like
to hear some recent stories.
Thanks
Bob Fritz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat hinges in riveting in a 6 |
> you have the seat pans attached with the same strength provided in the
> original fasteners that are called out in the plans.
> The seat/belly area should be considered structural (particularly the
> forward ramp portion) because it boxes the large open area of the
> fuselage and helps stiffen the spar centersection area.
> I think it is highly unlikely that you would ever need top remove this
> portion of the seat pan for maint., but as long as you use an exceptable
> # of screws it should be ok.
>
Scott - I hope I missed something on the plans - BUT - I thought that the seat
pans were to be blind riveted down with only the center strip removable. Should
I
be using screws for both the bottom seat pans AND the forward seat pans or does
the bottom seat pan get blind riveted and the forward pans get screwed.
I haven't riveted any thing down yet while I await my final inspection so I
haven't created to much work - I HOPE :-)
DGM - RV-6 - Just drilled the rear spar attach holes - WHEW - they finally are
done!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottj(at)ais.net> |
| Subject: | First Annual Apostle Islands RV-Flyin and Boat Excursion |
Flyin Location: Lapointe, Wisconsin ( located in Lake Superior on Madeline
Island ).
Airport: Public, 3000 foot asphalt (LaPointe, Wi)
Date: 9/5/98 or 9/26/98 ( depending on majority response )
Agenda: Meet at the airport on the island at 10am Saturday
morning.
Board a private 27 foot powerboat, ( or possibly
a 45 foot sailboat ).
Boat cruise the islands, stopping to explore sea
caves, etc.
Saturday Night we will camp on one of the
islands, and have an RV builders forum.
Sunday morning we will return to the airport.
Cost: Donations for boat gas, few dollar fee for campsite.
Bring: Tent, sleeping bag, freeze dried food ( or fishing
pole - ha ).
Who ? Anybody interested in RV's, builders, wannabe's, RV
owners.
This event is being hosted by a number of Chicago RV builders / flyers.
For more information, contact Scott Johnson scottj(at)ais.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | derek reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Eyerobics software info wanted |
Edward Cole wrote:
> >
> > Judi and I were investigating the Fly-mart at Oshkosh when she
> dragged
> > me into a booth selling 'Eyerobics' software
If they were a vendor at Osh. then an E mail to the EAA would get you
some info as all vendors were listed by them.
DR. RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator Location |
You should remember that for the gascolator
to function properly it must be at the lowest
part of the system. Even lower than the carb
if possible. I do not have a gascolator at all.
Only the pressure filter for the fuel injection.
I have had no water problems.
RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I have a new sterba 69x82 prop on my 0320 powered -4. My friend
>has -4 with an 0360 with a sterba 70x82. Mine cruises at 174
>(True) at 2500 rpm, his at 195 at 2500 rpm. His climb will put
>mine to shame. We both max out at 2600 rpm.
At what altitude does this happen?
If at 10,000 ft or so then you probably have a good prop match.
If it happens at low altitude then you are probably way over proped.
Most RV's with wood fixed props do best if they can achieve 2700 with
wide open throttle at 8000 ft.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
38-39,43-46,49,51,53,55-58,61,65-72
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Dear listers,
I have watched this thread grow to the point where posts are being driven
by personal emotions far more than factual information, so I did a little
investigating after seeing the original posters (final?) message about
his experience.
Bill B. the general mgr. at Vans has been out of the country for a fly-in
so he has not been involved up to this point.
I believe everyone else in the office thought it had been settled to the
customers satisfaction (as I will describe in a moment) so no other
action was taken.
Other than reminding everyone that there is 2 sides to every story, I
will attempt to provide some facts as I know them (probably still not all
of them but more than has been told up to this point).
I provided Barb with a copy of Mr. Morris's final post describing the end
result of his ordeal.
She was upset by what he said because she put in a lot of time
correcting the billing for him and thought he was satisfied.
The other girls in the office mentioned she probably spent at least a
couple hours on this case dealing with the people at Roadway.
Barb says that she has no way in knowing that Roadway, or ABF, or any
other freight handler will have to use a secondary carrier to make a
deliver to some ones delivery address.
That apparently is what happened in this case.
By Barb spending time on the phone and writing a letter requesting the
corrections, Roadway was supposed to be changing the billing zip code and
correcting the billing to show the full discount on the billing to that
location.
Apparently Mr. Morris wasn't willing to wait for this whole process to
take its course, so he picked up the kit and paid the full freight charge
(at least that was all Barb was able to guess happened).
She also mentioned that Mr. Morris seemed satisfied with what she was
trying to do to get Roadway to correct his bill (she talked to him on the
phone at least 3 times) and was upset that he would describe his dealings
with her in the way that he did.
Bottom line...
When kits are shipped the charges that the customer will receive are
generally way below what most any customer could contract for on their
own (50% discount).
Kits are FOB and customers are entitled to use what ever shipper they
choose, or pick it up yourself.
If Van's sets up the shipping then the customer will receive what ever
discounts the shipper provides.
Barb will intercede on behalf of a customer if something goes wrong in
the process.
Disclaimer:
I don't work in the shipping dept. and can not guaranty that all the
facts I have provided are absolutely accurate (second hand through my
poor memory).
They were provided to give another side of the story since I am the only
one from Van's that currently monitors the list, but I know nothing else
about the situation so please... do not correspond with me directly
regarding anything else about this issue.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MAlexan533(at)aol.com |
Bob; The experience of myself and those around this area, including Vans, is
that D.J. at Cleveland Tools is hard to beat for quality upholstery., that
looks good and fits right.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
Installing landing gear
MAlexan533(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Of all the upholstery that I have seen, go with Becky Orndorff. Her work is
excellent, with quality fabrics, and they are specially designed to fit in
the RV. They can send you a bunch of samples of fabrics that are close to
the colors you want (I said I like blue, teal, and grey, and got about 50
samples of various colors and patterns in the mail free of charge)
You can get a kit that has the seats, sidewalls, carpet, armrest, etc, all
for about 600.00 with premium fabric. I ordered mine, I suggest you do the
same! Order now, though, because they have a l0 week back log...er they did
about 8 weeks ago..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
Waiting on finish kit
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>
>I'm to the point of needing to install the rudder pedals, sticks and few other
>items but can't/shouldn't w/o doing a finish paint on them and few other bits.
>I need to choose a color scheme and in that paint shops can match any color,
>it seems to make more sense to choose the upholstery first.
>
>Question: Who do you like?
>
>I've seen many different versions at fly in's but don't have much of a feel
>for satisfaction vs. supplier. The archives have a bit of info. but I'd like
>to hear some recent stories.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bob Fritz
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
Someone e-mailed me a address of www.flash.net.gila I'm unable to acess
this
I'm looking for pictures of side covers that enclose flap mecanism.
Regards Mike Comeaux mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe lens fogging |
Someone recently (Mark Laboyteau?) asked what caused the fogging of the Whelen
wingtip strobe lens (clear) and whether it reduced the light output
significantly.
I had the same situation and removed my lenses to clean them at 100 hrs just
for grins. Mine fogged in the first few hours of initial operation and they
were installed clean, right out of the box. Apparently, the fog is caused by
outgassing of the RTV (white) potting material that forms the base of the
xenon strobe lamp (or any mold release that may have been used during
manufacture of the lamp). It easily wipes right out of the lens with a paper
towel and appears as a flaky ash-like deposit. It has not returned, and any
change in light output was imperceptible. BTW, the tailight/strobe combo
didn't fog.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Brian Lloyd's Spd/Pwr/Alt is WRIGHT (pun) |
Hate to say this to builder's of the best line of homebuilt aircraft, but
look at a spam can 182 Ops Handbook and then compare it to a T182 Ops
Handbook. The TAS of the T is much faster at altitude only because it still
has rated horsepower at altitude. Brian's guess of 4K-8K is pretty good,
too; depends on the particular engine, installation (ram recovery) and
prop.
Spam Sr. Flight Test Engineer,
FLY-IN-HOME(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
Is there anyone on the list with booths up front or tickets available for
booths?
I would be interested in (4) tickets total.
Regards Mike Comeaux
Daytime (541)593-2554
Evenings(541)593-2364
mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WoodardRod(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | HS Jig Free to Good Home |
Hello listers,
If there's anybody in the Denver area in need of an empennage jig, mine's
available. Free to a good home. A miracle in modern engineering.... Guaranteed
straight or everything you paid will be returned....
Easily portable and adjustable for the slope of your garage/workshop.
Basically a beam constructed of glued and screwed 3/4" plywood with a particle
board working surface glued on top. It's overkill, but what else is new.
Come and get it. It'd be best if you picked it up within the next couple of
weeks. After that it might cost you a frosty adult beverage to lure my brother
out to my rented storage shed.
Best regards,
Rod Woodard
Am I too young to be a snowbird... FL here I come!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Corsair" <tinckler(at)axionet.com> |
| Subject: | Checking switches & britches (that's pants) |
Here is a story that I hoped I would never have to tell. Remember those
wise old phrases thrown around about how single engine pilots will
experience an engine failure sometime ? Well, I had one tonight about one
minute after takeoff. Thank goodness I was alone, because I do give rides.
I had just filled both tanks, but the right had a tad more in it
so I took off on that. I climbed out to 1300 ' turning left, decided that I
should really burn the left down first 'cause I was alone, pushed over to
level off, throttled back to 2100 so I could hear the radio better, pulled
the mixture out about normal and then I lost power, and yes, the wood prop
does stop. It got real quiet except for the clean sound of wind around the
airframe. I turned a gentle right back while I looked down for a good spot.
Damn, everything seems to be East/West while I took off South. I wasn't
scared yet. I thought, damn, I'm going to bend my nice airplane. I turned
the starter, but no luck, I put the electric pump on, cycled the throttle a
few times, left the fuel selector alone, (I was a bit preoccupied), tried
the starter again and she caught, ran rough a bit then seemed normal. I
didn't push it too much because I wanted to conserve and get closer back.
Two airplanes in the pattern, I called to say I was joining downwind and
had engine trouble. They heard me and let me go in first. No tower in the
evening. I did not want to be short, so I was too fast, pulled on flap,
pulled up nose, had to slip, still too high and fast on a short strip, so I
kept slipping, pulled full flap, used up some runway and landed at about
80, bounced a bit, kept stick right back to plant the tail wheel and then
had to use the brakes. Made it fine but now engine sounds clanky at idle.
Did it always do that ?
I was glad to see Uncle Ted there, he was just watching traffic. He said
"that was some short flight and some landing". I managed to laugh and tell
him all. We agreed that I must have leaned too aggressively. I don't really
know. When I fly again, I am going to orbit the field at about 2000' for
the next while. I just want to be sure...after our debrief, I put RV away
for the night, making real sure to check Switches and then britches.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Eyerobics software info wanted |
Go to: http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/vision
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MoeJoe <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CRACKS IN POWDERCOATING |
I'm planning on getting some major steel components powder coated, and
today the guy told me on the phone that you should be able to see cracks
through the powder coat at least as well as through 2 coats of paint, if
not better. He says it's pretty brittle, but very hard to chip.
He quoted me $100 (his min charge) for a bicycle frame, (what I figured
the pile of parts amounted to) and $30 to sandblast it all.
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
J. Farrar wrote:
>
>
> Lotharn The Eastwood Company, http://www.eastwoodco.com/ , has a do it at
> home powder coat kit that looks interesting. I have no firsthand knowledge
> as I elected to prime and paint for now, though that might change. You do
> have to get an oven though, otherwise your roasts taste funny ;)
> Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
>
> >Listers, I am consider powdercoating landing gear mounts and all major
> >weldments (later engine and landing gear mounts). I want to do this in
> white
> >for best visual contrast of possible future cracks. I THINK I can get
> this
> >done for under $100 (exclusive engine and landing gear mounts).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
On Mon, 24 Aug 1998 Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << I would like to see you prove that statement (that straight weight oils
> give better protection than do multi-vis).
> Fortunately, I don't have to. Daimler-Benz, Light Plane Maintenance, TBO
> Advisor and Aviation Consumer have already independently determined this. The
> situation with automotive engines is somewhat different owing to tighter
> tolerances and such.
I would certainly like to see how they "proved" it. I haven't seen any
fleet tests. I have seen several 100% incorrect items in Light Plane
Maintenance in recent years so I must discount them as an infallible
reference. I cannot comment on TBO Advisor or Aviation Consumer because I
am not directly familiar with those publications so I cannot guage their
veracity (although I do respect Kas Thomas whom I believe is the driving
force behind TBO Advisor now). I don't disagree that straight-weight oils
are adequate and will get an engine to TBO and beyond when part of proper
operation and maintenance schedule. What I disagree on is that multi-vis
oils are inherently inferior to single-vis oils.
At normal operating temperature, 20W-50, 15W-50, and straight 50W oils
probably have the same viscosity and are therefore equivalent insofar as
viscosity is concerned. On the other hand, when cold the multi-vis oil
travels and splashes better therefore getting oil to my poor Lycoming's
cam and lifter bodies more quickly, not to mention the rest of the
bearings.
> TBO Advisor even stated that "the only time we would use the multi-vis oil is
> if we were traveling from Acapulco to Anchorage in February".
I guess it takes a multitude of opinions. I am breaking in my new hot-rod
O-320 on Philips 20W-50 mineral (nondipersant) oil. I plan to switch to
Shell 15W-50 semisynthetic when break-in is complete. Maybe I will go to
TBO and maybe not. Time will ultimately tell.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flaps |
Mike:
You can see this at my website:
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Paul Besing
>
>Someone e-mailed me a address of www.flash.net.gila I'm unable to acess
>this
>I'm looking for pictures of side covers that enclose flap mecanism.
>
>Regards Mike Comeaux mcomeaux(at)cmc.net
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seat hinges in riveting in a 6 |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
> Scott - I hope I missed something on the plans - BUT - I thought
>that the seat
>pans were to be blind riveted down with only the center strip
>removable. Should I
>be using screws for both the bottom seat pans AND the forward seat
>pans or does
>the bottom seat pan get blind riveted and the forward pans get
>screwed.
>
No... Paul had mentioned in his post (if I understood him correctly) that
he "had" used screws for the entire seat pan area, and I was simply
warning to maintain the same strength that was provided by the blind
rivets called out in the plans.
Sounds like what you did is what is recommended.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
arily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator Location |
<< You should remember that for the gascolator
to function properly it must be at the lowest
part of the system. Even lower than the carb
if possible. >>
IMO, this is a myth. The gascolator DOES NOT have to be the lowest point in
the system to perform its intended function. It merely needs to be in the
fuel line somewhere between the fuel pickup and the carb/FI system. It is
designed to take any water that the fuel pickup might scavenge up, divert it
safely off to the side in the gascolator bowl and let fuel pass by
unobstructed. The amount of water it is capable of diverting without blockage
is limited by the bowl size, so it can't perform miracles. If you don't have
one you better pray to the gas pump filter gods that you don't get a slug of
H20 on your next fillup. If everybody at the airport does their job, you will
never get any water, but you know Murphy.
If you are using a high pressure pump (fuel injection) upstream, you should
use the Andair type gascolator, as the standard types are not designed to be
under this amount of pressure.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator Location |
The wing root location has been well discussed in the archives and
the RVator. I'm going to do it, but the gascolator will be between
the selector and the boost pump. Haven't looked at the details yet,
but I hope to put the fuel flow transducer (RMI) between selector and
gascolator where there is a good straight stretch of tube along the
spar. The only advantage of a second gascolator would be to keep any
crap out of the transducer by putting both gascolators upstream of the
selector.
I invite Gary the vanremog and any other listers to play devil's
advocate on my proposed configuration.
Peter Bennett
RV6 Firewall forward.
>
>
> I am considering ordering a second ANDAIR gascolator for my RV-6. My
> thinking is to mount one outside the fuselage next to the tank, one
> for each side. It seems the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
> Advantages: 1) Trap debris from the tank before it enters the
> selector valve then the boost pump. 2) Places the bottom of the bowl
> at or near the low point on the fuel system. 3) Eliminates the hot
> air and the cool air circuit necessary for firewall mounting.
> Disadvantages: 1) $125 more expensive 2) ??? I have not fit my wings
> yet so I am not sure how they will fit. Your comments are welcomed.
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Rick Caldwell
> RV-6 finish kit - canopy clecoed on and puttin' in systems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Gesele <tgesele(at)villagenet.com> |
| Subject: | Primer Safety Question |
Listers,
Sorry to do this to you folks, but I've got to ask a primer question
(I promise it will be the first, last, and only one!) First, let me
say that since I live on Long Island, I am going to prime the entire
airframe.
Now, my question is since I'm pretty sure my wife is pregnant, what
precautions should I take to ensure both her and the kid's safety? I'll
be using Veri-Prime for the whole thing, shooting it with a spray gun.
I can't imagine a self-etching primer being too good for her, so any
suggestions on the best way to protect 'em would be appreciated..
Thanks,
Tom Gesele (RV-6 #25465)
Emp arrived yesterday!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson, John" <john.anderson(at)spcf.siemens.com> |
I am curious to know if anyone has a phone number of the supplier who
provides the elongated spinner for the RV's. I don't like the snubby one
provided by Van's. I've seen several elongated ones at Oshkosh but could
not get a phone number or name of a supplier from anyone. Thanks in
advance.
John C. Anderson
Siemens Power Corporation
1040 S. 70th Street
Milwaukee, WI 53214
(414) 475-4201
(414) 475-4461 - fax
E-mail: john.anderson(at)spcf.siemens.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson, John" <john.anderson(at)spcf.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Tip Storage |
I've got a RV-4 that I sometimes have a problem with fitting all the "goods"
in the storage area when my wife and I go on cross country trips. Has
anyone installed the wing tip storage area on their aircraft? What are the
pros and cons of doing this? It seems rather simple to do. Does anyone
know the maximum weight that the wing tip can hold? I have heard it's
around 10 lbs. Thanks.
John C. Anderson
Siemens Power Corporation
1040 S. 70th Street
Milwaukee, WI 53214
(414) 475-4201
(414) 475-4461 - fax
E-mail: john.anderson(at)spcf.siemens.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walsh, John" <JWalsh1(at)unifi.com> |
| Subject: | ENGINE OIL ADDITIVES |
> >I use AvBlend (Lenckite) with straight 100W
> >AD oil in my new Lyc O-360 because the straight weights protect better
> than
> >multi-vis
>
>
I'll take a shot at this. I suspect it is simply a matter of the
100w clinging longer while the airplane sits around for weeks on end ( this
rarely happens to a car). In addition, I suspect the sloppy assembly of
airplane engines causes them to essentially try to machine themselves into
scrap. A thick oil may provide some additional cushion between metal parts.
My guess is that the issue is thick vs. thin, not multi vs. straight
weight.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
John,
Try Sensenich. They provide a spinner. May be the one you're looking for.
They have a web site. Check the "Yellow Pages".
Bob
RV-6; wheel pants
-----Original Message-----
From: Anderson, John [SMTP:john.anderson(at)spcf.siemens.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 7:34 AM
To: rv list
Subject: RV-List: Spinner
I am curious to know if anyone has a phone number of the supplier
who
provides the elongated spinner for the RV's. I don't like the
snubby one
provided by Van's. I've seen several elongated ones at Oshkosh but
could
not get a phone number or name of a supplier from anyone. Thanks in
advance.
John C. Anderson
Siemens Power Corporation
1040 S. 70th Street
Milwaukee, WI 53214
(414) 475-4201
(414) 475-4461 - fax
E-mail: john.anderson(at)spcf.siemens.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SAVOYINTL(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bend over & shut up |
I thought this thread was over with too. I know I am tired of reading about
it. I have to respond to this so that no one thinks it is no longer necessary
to check on shipping. What happened to me will happen to someone else if you
do not make them give you the freight charges in advance. I hope this is the
end of it.
In a message dated 8/25/98 2:54:47 AM, you wrote:
<>
The people at Roadway didn't have any trouble at all telling me which zip
codes qualified for a discount and which ones did not. As I said before, the
whole matter was as simple as checking with each shipper and picking the
lowest cost. They did not do that and it cost me an extra $350 for that
omission. This is why I have warned everyone to make the shipping arrangements
yourself in advance.
<>
After Vans had completely washed their hands of the matter and told me there
was nothing they could do about the problem I went to Roadway myself. The
person I was working with at Roadway asked for a corrected bill of lading with
a new zip code that was on a direct shipping point to us. Someone higher up at
Roadway vetoed the idea.
<>
Wrong. We were told by Roadway there would be no discount allowed. The only
option was to refuse shipment and allow the crate to return to Vans.
<>
Maybe you should review this thread and look again at some of the quotes I
attribute to Vans. These were mostly written by Barb. Why would anyone think I
was happy with my dealing with her?
<>
Didn't happen this time. I have a $624 payment for delivery of a finish kit to
prove it.
<>
Right!
August 20, 1998 - August 25, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-fg