RV-Archive.digest.vol-fm
September 24, 1998 - September 28, 1998
I have installed an ACS p/n 10570 oil breather/separator that was modified by
fly cutting a hole in the front face and stuffing two stainless steel wool pot
scrubbing pads inside. Nutplates were installed and a circular cover was
retained by #8 screws 10 places. The existing oil breather fitting from the
Lyc O-360-A1A was removed and an AN840-10D fitting installed in its place
(after all the big Continental engines use only a 5/8" breather fitting).
This was plumbed using silicone flex tubing (available at Ford dealers that
work on police cars) to the inlet of the separator.
Oil mist captured by condensing out on the s/s media sinks to the bottom of
the separator where it runs into a bottle ACS p/n 06-11225 (a clear Matco
brake fluid reservoir) equipped with a Saf-Air drain valve ACS p/n CAV-110H4
which gets drained at oil changes. The 5/8" outlet of the separator is dumped
using more of the silicone hose with a whistle slot and a short piece of 5/8"
aluminum tubing onto the right exhaust pipe.
This setup captures 99.44% of the entrained oil from the breather. In the 150
hrs of operation on the new engine, I have removed about 3 fluid ounces of
oil. Only two or three drops of oil have gotten thru this labyrinth and ended
up on the pipe. All I get on the belly is exhaust residue (no oil). A little
oil on the belly goes a long way to making a mess.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
>
>Most turbine engined aircraft feed the case breather into the exhaust stack,
>and many radials did the same thing. I have spoken to Larry Vetterman about
>this a while ago, and he said that several locals were doing it with good
>success. Just remember to weld the tube on with a slight slant with the
>flow. I intend to try this soon. The air/oil seperator does little (but
>something).
>
I had this setup on my RV4. From the crankcase the breather tube went to
the exhaust pipe. At the exhaust pipe a stainless tube was welded into it,
the tube had a 45 degree cut on one end that caused a suction effect in the
breather line.
In the breather line a one way valve was inserted to prevent pressure from
going into the crankcase.
This system was suggested by Larry Vetterman. It worked very well. I had a
very clean belly and no oil drips on the hangar floor. I have heard that he
no longer supports this practice. I do not know why. On my current plane I
simply left the hose hang out the cowl. The engine does not burn any oil and
my belly is clean. I do have the odd drip on the floor, but the system is
simple, cheap and safe.
Tom martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | panel labels and markings |
Dick,
Check the most recent Sport Aviation magazine. Steve Formhalls wrote an
article on how to make the labels. I've seen his work. The process he
describes works beautifully and the results are as professional looking as
any I have seen.
Bob
San Antonio
RV-6; finish details
-----Original Message-----
From: martin [SMTP:martin(at)gbonline.com]
Dear listers,
At Oshkosh this year a gentleman from the west coast area arrived
with a
beautiful RV6 that had custom made labels
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PCA-400 Intercom |
John;
I had a GCA-400 intercomm that I put in mine. It was from Gulf Coast
Avionics. Who made it for them I don't know. It may be that yours is a
Pacific Coast Avionics one and if so , they advert. in the Trade A Plane.
They may be able to provide a diagram. Mine came with one. Hope this
helps.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
-----Original Message-----
From: John Conley <cell1pilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Does anyone have information about a PCA-400 intercom?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Crankcase vent line- K.I.S.S. |
<< On my current plane I
simply left the hose hang out the cowl. >>
I've tried to resist this thread.... D'OH!! After reading Mr GV's fine
explanation with part numbers (most useful- thanks, Gary!), here's what I had
done on the -4 I had:
Ford uses a small pre-formed hose (about a 160 deg bend) on their older small
block V-8 water pumps (or was it big blocks? Uh-oh....some one should help me
here...) as a thermostatic bypass. I attached this short hose to the breather
outlet on the 0-320, and a length of 5/8" alum soft line to that. The alum
line protruded into the cowl outlet, and fumes exited there. Cheap, light, and
EZ. Be sure to put that whistle vent into any breather system.
No provisions for a oil separator here- I want to know if my motor is burping
oil everywhere.
And as I mentioned before- WD-40 is a great belly cleaner.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
There was an article about an RV6 in a recent EAA publication where
the builder used a laserprinter and plastic labels. It was one of
those builders hints articles.
I am planning to do it this way myself - so I'll dig up the article
and post the specifics later.
Ralph Capen
RV6a Dallas
Tail Feathers delayed by a recent influx of orders
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR Certification |
Bill (and other interested readers) --
The FARs also talk about minimum equipment. FAR 91.205 spells out what you
need. Counting the VFR stuff, it's a long list. IFR adds:
1. VFR and for night, night VFR equipment
2. Comm and Nav as required for facilities used
3. Turn indicator
4. Slip-skid indicator.
5. Alt
6. Clock
7. Alternator
8. AI
9. DG
Yes, a Nav/Comm meets requirements for #2, provided you don't want to
do an NDB approach. If you want to do an ILS, the Nav head needs a
glideslope display. This is what they mean when they talk about the
facilities being used.
My IFR RV will have a Nav/Comm with glideslope and marker beacon. And
I'll put in an TSO'd GPS. It's the wave of the future. I *may* also add
DME, depending on how much button-pushing the GPS requires to give me
DME info.
-J
> >Return-Path: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> X-Sender: pagan(at)cboss.com
> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 21:24:29 -0400
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
> Subject: RV-List: IFR Certification
> Mime-Version: 1.0
>
>
> FAR Part 91-205.d.2...Two-way radio communications system and navigational
> equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used.
>
> question: What does this mean? Is a Nav/Com enough?
>
> What are the "real" (minimum) requirements for IFR certification?
>
>
> Bill Pagan
> waitin on the fuselage
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy holes |
Yohannes Kayir wrote:
>
>
> Fellow Listers (Craig Hiers in particular),
>
> 1. on your RV-4 canopy, what size holes did you go with? #30 on the tubular
> frame, # 30 on the skirts. And finally the hole in the plexiglass, oversized
> due to expansion; Did you go with #27, 5/32, 3/16? Or may be in between?
> The above sizes were taken out of plans /manual /rvator /archive. What I'm
> interested in is, the size that works for our climate (Florida).
>
> 2. Also, two types of pop rivets came in my canopy hardware bag, they are
both
> 1/8" in diameter. One is all aluminum, including the stem (about 80 each).
> The other is also aluminum but the stem may or may not be. It has a different
> color, like a clad yellow (about 40 each). Plans call for AK-44-BS or AACQ-4-4
> rivets. Are these both the same? Can they be used interchangeably on the
> canopy? Why did I receive two different kinds? May be this second type is
> CS4-4 and it needs to fasten the skirts to the square cross-sectioned canopy
bows.
>
> Getting too anal huh!?! I wouldn't, but this is the canopy we're talking
> about. Rascals have a tendency to c@*!k if they don't like, say, the time of
the
> day.
>
> By the way, I'm so happy for you, sounds like you're getting soooo close
to
> completing your project.
>
> Yohannes Kayir
> Pensacola, Fl.
> RV-4, (canopy this weekend, if Georges permits)
>
Yohannes
Seems like you have recevied a lot of very good advise already.
I opened the hole in the plexi to a #27 using the special drill bit
from Avery's. Make sure you use the AACQ 4-4 rivets through the plexi,
they are a very soft rivet- you might test pull one to see.
It's very improtant the rivets not create a lot of pressure on the
plexi. Also make sure the the plexi rests aginst the the tube when
you set the rivet, you don't want the rivet pulling the plexi down.
I had to do some modification to the frame itself to make it fit
the shape of the plexi.
To me the worst part of the whole project was the canopy, as far as
stress goes it's all down hill from here.
Good luck, and keep in mind how happy you will be when it's done.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil line vent correction |
I guess that my reply was not clear.
It should have read <<"Seems that this would stop a lot of the belly
deposits...">> Or it would vent into the crankcase.
I was not advocating venting the oil breather back into the crankcase. I was
warning that venting into the exhaust system could pressurize the crankcase.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phillips Greg <PhilliG(at)NTSB.gov> |
| Subject: | Panel placards etc. |
In response to Dick Martin's question about panel placards, I think you are
looking for Werner Berry in Tustin, CA. His numbers are (714) 838-8946, fax
(714) 838-0075.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
I need some expert advice, or device. My headphones do a great
job when I am just listening, but when I key the mic to transmit,
It sound like the volume is turned up wide open and it hurts my
ears. I wired the headphone jacks the way the instructions
showed, with no extra components such as caps or resistors in the
circuits. I am using an Icom a-200 radio, and a set of
lightspeed 20k's, and marv golden anr headsets in the rear. The
lightspeeds are worse than the mg's. And it did the same thing
before I ever wired in the backseat jacks. Any expert advice out
there? Help! Thanks for any advice. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | What kind of fiberglass? |
I need to do some fiberglass work and was wondering what kind of fiberglass,
epoxy, etc that I will need during my project. Any suggestions on brand,
type, and place to buy this stuff?
thanks..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Crankcase vent line |
GV and Listers,
Has anybody tried this steel wool pot scrubbing pad idea with
the Robbins heater box???? I used a door spring in mine when I had the
Tolle exhaust system, but now need something else in the Robbins muff
used on the Veterman system....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanremog(at)aol.com [SMTP:Vanremog(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 2:25 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Crankcase vent line
>
>
>
> << The air/oil separator does little (but something). >>
>
> With no media installed I would agree. However, this is easily
> rectified.
>
> I have installed an ACS p/n 10570 oil breather/separator that was
> modified by
> fly cutting a hole in the front face and stuffing two stainless steel
> wool pot
> scrubbing pads inside. Nutplates were installed and a circular cover
> was
> retained by #8 screws 10 places. The existing oil breather fitting
> from the
> Lyc O-360-A1A was removed and an AN840-10D fitting installed in its
> place
> (after all the big Continental engines use only a 5/8" breather
> fitting).
> This was plumbed using silicone flex tubing (available at Ford dealers
> that
> work on police cars) to the inlet of the separator.
>
***** SNIP ****
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings - from one who use to make them |
Any capable Awards or Trophy shop will be able to make the labels. I owned
an Awards shop in Hawaii and we did a ton of the "reverse engraved-color
filled" labels for the military. The material is called Rowmark Slickers
and comes in a wide range of colors. It has a thin colored opaque back
layer and a much thicker clear top layer. Once engraved in the back
(reverse engraved) all one has to do is fill the engraved area with whatever
color they want.
The process is more expensive than standard engraved labels but in my
opinion is far superior. By the way the material comes in either gloss or
matte finish. Also this material is designed for exterior use so you won't
have to worry about the sun fading it. It is important to use the proper
paint to color fill the letters, if the wrong paint is used the letters may
fade. I used automotive touch up paint to color fill the labels we made and
that worked great and never faded.
If you want to save money you can tell the person engraving for you that you
will do your own color filling. The color filling is the most time
consuming part of the the process (i.e. most expensive). Then just buy some
automotive touch up paint in the color you want and go for it.
Hope this helps,
Gary Rush
80352
Fuel Tanks (Black Death)
Fuselage shipping mid October
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roncace, Robert A" <Robert.Roncace(at)west.boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
Hello all;
I expect Santa to bring me an RV-6 tail kit this Christmas.
While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration?
I went to the RV-list archive at Matronics web site and found
a few messages on "Tail jigs" but none seemed to discuss the
freestanding variety. Thanks in advance.
Bob Roncace
P.S. This will be my second tail kit. Partially completed
the first in '89-'90, but military moves precluded any real
progress and I sold it in '94. Now out of the military
so it's time to try again!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
In a message dated 9/24/98 10:28:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com writes:
<< There was an article about an RV6 in a recent EAA publication where
the builder used a laserprinter and plastic labels. It was one of
those builders hints articles. >>
That's what I did. Cheap and looks great. I can also change 'em anytime I
want with little aggravation.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
Chris & Tammy Edwards wrote:
>
> Where and what do I want to countersink and dimple? I'm working on the
> skin that attaches to the flap brace and flap (piano) hinge. I was
> thinking of dimpling the skin, countersinking the brace and doing nothing
> to the hinge. Does this sound correct??
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Edwards
> cte(at)csi.com
Howdy,
The e-mail from Scott McDaniels makes me wonder if we're thinking of the same
question. In general, dimple whenever you can; it's stronger than
countersinking. In any event, do not countersink for 3/32" rivets in material
less than 0.032" thick.
For the flap BRACE in particular, where the flap brace lies between the skin and
hinge, dimple the skin and flap brace, and countersink the hinge.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Flight from midwest to west coast |
Someone a day or two ago asked about flight from the eastern 2/3rds of
the U.S. to the west coast.
Just about everyone on this list has more flight time than I do, so
some of my comments are going to be pretty obvious to most of you.
But it's just possible someone doesn't know this, and none of us want
any of us involved in CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain).
Okay...
Freeways occassionally go through tunnels.
You do *not* want to fly VFR through mountains when the ceilings are lower
than the hills around you. It would be real, real tricky to fly your
RV through those tunnels that suddenly appear in front of you.
All of you west-coasters should also note something -- us flatlanders
get absolutely zero mountain training or experience flying around our
homes. We can take off from our home airports, climb to 2200 MSL, and
fly for hours in any direction while maintaining 1000 feet AGL.
Us flatlanders need to remember there are special safety rules when flying
in mountains. From what I have heard, you would be well-advised to get some
dual before flying in the mountains. The first trip I plan to the west
coast will involve a stop in someplace like Denver, where I'll find a CFI
before crossing those big rocks.
Yeah, an RV on instruments and with a bottle of air can climb over the
top. But what if the freezing level is at 15,000, tops at 22,000? Then
what? Y'all out in California probably know, but I sure don't.
Think safety.
-J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rodney Boyd" <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu> |
| Subject: | Crankcase vent line- K.I.S.S. -Reply |
OK guys, (ignorance showing,here) What's a "whistle vent"?
Rod
>>> 09/24/98 07:52am >>>
<< ......Be sure to put that whistle vent into any breather system.........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
martin wrote:
>
> Dear listers,
> . . . Does anyone know who this person is and where I can contact him.
> Dick Martin
> RV8 running out of parts
You seem to be talking about Werner Berry: (714) 838-8946.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
Robert D. Cabe wrote:
>
>
> Dick,
>
> Check the most recent Sport Aviation magazine. Steve Formhalls wrote an
> article on how to make the labels. I've seen his work. The process he
> describes works beautifully and the results are as professional looking as
> any I have seen.
>
If you are interested in doing your placards this way I have the adhesive
backed transparent film which can be used to create your own custom interior
or exterior aircraft placards. Please contact me off line. The finished
product can be seen on Miss Chiquita:
http://scribers.midwest.net/razer/
chet razer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 fuselage skin overlap |
Fellow Listers:
Another RV-4 fuselage skin question: I am about to drill and fit my F-424
rear side skins where they overlap the F-426 bottom skins. Is it true that
you want to trim the overlapping F-424 skin with a minimal edge distance to
the row of holes that it has in common with the F-426 in order to minimize
any "puckering" between rivets and so this skin will lie as flat as possible
on the F-426?
As always, your comments are highly appreciated.
Doug
============
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
<< My headphones do a great
job when I am just listening, but when I key the mic to transmit,
It sound like the volume is turned up wide open and it hurts my
ears. >>
It is! The sidetone adjustment is a bit high. Your radio should have a sticker
on the outsideof its case telling you which way to turn the thing to reduce
the sidetone volume. A call to the manufacturer might be a good idea, too.
CHECK SIX! Was that too loud? ;-)
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
I didn't know that RV's had backseats????????
I need some expert advice, or device. My headphones do a great
job when I am just listening, but when I key the mic to transmit,
It sound like the volume is turned up wide open and it hurts my
ears. I wired the headphone jacks the way the instructions
showed, with no extra components such as caps or resistors in the
circuits. I am using an Icom a-200 radio, and a set of
lightspeed 20k's, and marv golden anr headsets in the rear. The
lightspeeds are worse than the mg's. And it did the same thing
before I ever wired in the backseat jacks. Any expert advice out
there? Help! Thanks for any advice. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Jig - Freestanding |
My wings were built in a finished room in the basement. The ceilings were finished
plastered. I utilized an existing fixed lolli column for one end support.
On the other I made a 18 x 18 inch plate out of wood with carpet on it with
a " threaded rod comming out of it. The rod went into the other vertical support
made out of uni strut such that I was able to tighten the plate up againt
the ceiling. (Picture the upper part of a small hydraulic floor jack principle)
I had a very fixed structure and didn't have to cut any holes into the ceiling.
A pair of cheep levels were placed at each end to verify the jig stayed
plumb along with a simple string gauge to the floor.
I hope this helps.
Gary, still finishing RV-6 20038 N38GK reserved.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
In regards to using a laser printer and labels to make your panel labels.
There are no specs other than a progam that can print labels. A laser
printer, higher DPI the better and clear averey labels. You just cut the
labels to fit.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions neede |
Bob:
Just a suggestion before you abandon a fixed jig. Could you screw on a
couple of 2X4's through the drywall, and then attach your vertical posts to
them? Then when you are done, remove the 2X4's, fix up the screw holes and
dab alittle paint.
Just a thought.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A 25171
Wing Spars....almost ready to prime
Peshtigo, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 12:20 PM
Subject: RV-List: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions neede
>
>
>Hello all;
>
>I expect Santa to bring me an RV-6 tail kit this Christmas.
>
>While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
>I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
>than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
>of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
>have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration?
>
>I went to the RV-list archive at Matronics web site and found
>a few messages on "Tail jigs" but none seemed to discuss the
>freestanding variety. Thanks in advance.
>
>Bob Roncace
>
>P.S. This will be my second tail kit. Partially completed
>the first in '89-'90, but military moves precluded any real
>progress and I sold it in '94. Now out of the military
>so it's time to try again!
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
> I need some expert advice, or device. My headphones do a great
> job when I am just listening, but when I key the mic to transmit,
> It sound like the volume is turned up wide open and it hurts my
> ears.
You need to adjust the microphone gain and/or output from your
radio. Your radio's manual will tell you where. The same
thing was happening on a local RV-6A, and these adjustments fixed
it.
As an aside, remove the foam from your microphone and make sure
it's aligned correctly before you make these adjustments. The
flat side with the cutouts should be facing your mouth. Slide
the foam back on after you've checked this. If it's not facing
your mouth correctly, your words will be clipped, and yelling
will make it sound somewhat better. But who wants to yell? :-)
Anyway, make sure it's oriented correctly so that you have the
optimum microphone output before you adjust your radio, so
that your adjustments will also be correct.
'Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I need some expert advice, or device. My headphones do a great
job when I am just listening, but when I key the mic to transmit,
It sound like the volume is turned up wide open and it hurts my
ears. I wired the headphone jacks the way the instructions
showed, with no extra components such as caps or resistors in the
circuits. I am using an Icom a-200 radio, and a set of
Lightspeed 20k's, and marv golden anr headsets in the rear. The
Lightspeed are worse than the mg's. And it did the same thing
before I ever wired in the back-seat jacks. Any expert advice out
there? >>
The sidetone output of your radio is likely set too high. Some radios have a
small pot that can be adjusted to about the same level as the received audio.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
<< Has anybody tried this stainless steel wool pot scrubbing pad idea with
the Robbins heater box???? >>
Fred-
I believe that this would work but I have used a 1/4" OD stainless steel
spring in mine. Part of the problem is that stainless is not really a very
good conductor of heat. Metals that conduct heat better are lower temp
melting materials. I would imagine that a thin wrap of the stainless steel
wool would add sufficient contact to the pipe and increase thermal transfer
area to provide some benefit.
Try it, it's cheap.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
RV6junkie(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 9/24/98 10:28:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com writes:
>
> << There was an article about an RV6 in a recent EAA publication where
> the builder used a laserprinter and plastic labels. It was one of
> those builders hints articles. >>
>
> That's what I did. Cheap and looks great. I can also change 'em anytime I
> want with little aggravation.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC - NJ
I used the same process with a slight addition. Paper Direct sells
metallic foils that bond to laser or photocopy toners. I used a red
metallic that stands out nicely from my grey panel.
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/tailwheel/>
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
My qb kit is at the local terminal and now I need to get it home. One idea
is to have it loaded onto a flatbed tow truck. The flatbed can be raised and
tilted down to the ground, then the crates (16'x4'x4' for the fuse) will be
basically slid off into the driveway, after which I will start uncrating.
Will the "unusual attitude" casued by tilting the crate cause any damage?
How well crated is this thing?
I would love to open the crate on the flatbed, but I have to pay by the hour
for the truck. How long should it take to unload the pieces if I try that?
Thanks,
Louis Cappucci
Mamaroneck, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Henry S. (Hank) Eilts" <a0182368(at)rlemail.dseg.ti.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Skins |
Jim Nice wrote:
>For all concerned. I have not dimpled anything with a pneumatic squeeze.
I
>have, however, used the pop rivet dimple dies. I have noticed that they do
>somewhat the same thing. It takes alot of force to break the nail. What I
>think would be "swell" if someone could engineer it, would be a tool that
>works like a blind rivet puller, with the exception being that there is a
>mechanism for "releasing" the tools hold on the nail prior to breaking. If
>this were possible, one could dimple without the excess pressure that is
>causing this problem. Any ideas from any engineers out there??
>Jim Nice
I have been using a pop rivet dimpler and pneumatic puller with good
results. I turn down the air to 10 to 15 psi, 10 psi for thin skins
(elevator) and 15 psi for thick (stabilizer). I get over 200 dimples before
I toss the nail on general principles. If the nail breaks, I have to
disassemble the puller to remove the nail, so I discard the nail at about
200 pulls to avoid this. The dimples come out much better than with a
squeezer. I find (as others on the list have noted) that the squeezer puts
an area of distortion about the size of a dime around the dimple. I have
not found a way around this (except to use the puller instead of the
squeezer), but I haven't tried very hard either. For areas that don't show
(ribs, spars, etc), I use the squeeze because its faster. For areas that
are seen, I use the puller. FYI.
You know, we are getting to be a really picky lot (at least I am), as the
distortion caused by the squeeze isn't really all that bad. There is some
perverse psychology at work here.
PS. I'm using the Harbor Freight $50 pneumatic puller (I know, cheap,
cheap, cheap), which I got used from a friend for $25. (even cheaper yet).
Hank Eilts
RV-6 wing kit arrives tomorrow.
--
Raytheon Systems Corp.
PO Box 660246 MS333
Dallas, TX 75266
972 344-2354 voice
972 344-2377 fax
email: eilts(at)ti.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
It will be possible to construct a freestanding jig. Remember, the wings
will be built on the same jig as the empenage. Patching a few pieces of
sheetrock isn't such a big deal compared to the entire project. By securing
the uprights to the ceiling and floor, you do away with the need to
construct large "feet" for a freestanding jig. This will free up valuable
space within your workshop.
Just my $.02
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
<< Has anybody tried this steel wool pot scrubbing pad idea with
the Robbins heater box???? I used a door spring in mine when I had the
Tolle exhaust system, but now need something else in the Robbins muff
used on the Veterman system....
>>
Interesting idea. With cold weather approaching, I will soon have the chance
to test my single Van's muff on the Vetterman crossover system (on the down-
pipe serving two cylinders). If the heat output is inadequate, I shall try
the SS spuds inside the clamshell housing and get some temp data for the list.
A cold cockpit might even motivate me to install the interior sidewall
upholstery panels for added R-value.
I'd like to see the look on my Amway upline's face when I tell him why I'm
ordering our company's Stainless Steel Scrubbing Spuds for use in my
airplane..... I'm quite certain they don't have an FAA-PMA. Bogus parts!!!!!
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 30 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
<< While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration? >>
Bob: If it were me, I'd use a floor to ceiling jig versus free-standing.
To access the joists overhead, you don't have to bust through the drywall;
just locate the joists (stud-finder or probe with a finishing nail) and cleat
a two-by to the ceiling with some sixteen-penny nails. Then attatch your
uprights to that. It should all come down easily enough when you are
finished; some spackle in the holes and you're done.
BTW - I'm jealous of anyone with a real drywall ceiling in their workshop.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 30hrs.
accustomed to working beneath exposed floor joists and fiberglass batts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
<< While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration? >>
Bob: If it were me, I'd use a floor to ceiling jig versus free-standing.
To access the joists overhead, you don't have to bust through the drywall;
just locate the joists (stud-finder or probe with a finishing nail) and cleat
a two-by to the ceiling with some sixteen-penny nails. Then attatch your
uprights to that. It should all come down easily enough when you are
finished; some spackle in the holes and you're done.
BTW - I'm jealous of anyone with a real drywall ceiling in their workshop.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 30hrs.
accustomed to working beneath exposed floor joists and fiberglass batts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
>
>> Had anybody tried welding a small pipe onto the exhaust and routing
>> the crankcase vent line into the ht gases. Seems that this would stop a
>> lot of the belly deposits...
>
>
>Fred,
>
>I believe the exhaust gas pressure would be too great,
>preventing proper crankcase ventilation and perhaps increasing
>crankcase pressure to the point of producing leaks at the
>seals.
Not to mention venting corrosive combustion products into the crankcase.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Cleaning the belly |
>And as I mentioned before- WD-40 is a great belly cleaner.
I found a solution of "Simple Green" in water to work very well also.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
I didn't care to punch hole in my garage ceiling either. instead I
plastered my verticals to the floor and ceiling. this has worked real
well. Very solid. When completed, I just chiseled off the plaster, good
as new. I also kept some extra plaster around in case cracks opened up
in the plaster (This did happen a couple of times).
Rich Zeidman
RV6A 25224
finishing up wings
>
>
> Hello all;
>
> I expect Santa to bring me an RV-6 tail kit this Christmas.
>
> While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
> I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
> than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
> of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
> have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
>
>I need some expert advice, or device. My headphones do a great
>job when I am just listening, but when I key the mic to transmit,
>It sound like the volume is turned up wide open and it hurts my
>ears. I wired the headphone jacks the way the instructions
>showed, with no extra components such as caps or resistors in the
>circuits. I am using an Icom a-200 radio, and a set of
>lightspeed 20k's, and marv golden anr headsets in the rear. The
>lightspeeds are worse than the mg's. And it did the same thing
>before I ever wired in the backseat jacks. Any expert advice out
>there? Help! Thanks for any advice. Michael.
Your transceiver has an adjustment labled "sidetone." Find this and turn
it down. The transceiver's sidetone feeds your transmit audio back into
the audio system so you can hear it in your headphones. If it is turned up
too high you will blow your head off. If it is too low, you will not hear
what you are saying which is psychologically uncomfortable. It is amazing
how much feedback we need when we talk.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
At the risk of offending people, I just used a Brother "P-Touch" labeling
system with black letters on clear tape. It isn't sexy or expensive but it
works well. On the gloss grey panel it looks surprisingly good, much
better than I had anticipated.
I have an adjustable spot/flood light on the cockpit edge (canopy hinge
side) that illuminates maps or switch labels. All instruments and radios
are internally lighted. This is simple and inexpensive.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Protective plastic on skins |
I'm not sure how you're doing it but I dimple the skins with the plastic
still on. Then I strip off the plastic only where I'm going to rivet. The
results is that I don't get the mark around the dimple like I hear about.
The rivets fit flush and I don't get the "wave" in the skin that I hear some
talk about either. Not that I'm going to end up with a show plane mind you.
There are other areas to screw up......:^)
Bob
RV8 #423 working on the wings
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael_Markert(at)vul.com [mailto:Michael_Markert(at)vul.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 6:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Protective plastic on skins
I just finished riveting my HS skins yesterday. I used Avery's flush
swivel
set and am pleased with the results. We didn't have any dings or smileys.
The
only qualm I have is a slight indentation about 1" diameter around each
rivet.
I had only removed the plastic layer in the vicinity of rivets.
My question is: How long should I leave the plastic protectant on the rest
of
the skin?
I noticed in the Orndorff videos that George says it is fine remove the
plastic
around the rivets as long as you don't leave the rest of it on for too
long.
Upon removal of the remaining plastic from a section, and noticed that the
area
around the rivets where the plastic has been removed for over one month is
a
dull gray comparatively. I assume this graying is oxidation.
I live near the Gulf so the HS will be stored indoors for the next couple
years
until final assembly.
Nevertheless, I'm thinking about removing the rest of the plastic and
priming
the exterior shortly to prevent further oxidation.
Any advice would be appreciated
Michael Markert
RV-6A empenage
Baton Rouge. Louisiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | What kind of fiberglass? |
Paul,
I'm using Aeropoxy from Spruce with 1.45 oz.sq. yard E-Glass....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Besing, Paul [SMTP:PBesing(at)pinacor.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 11:12 AM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: What kind of fiberglass?
>
>
> I need to do some fiberglass work and was wondering what kind of
> fiberglass,
> epoxy, etc that I will need during my project. Any suggestions on
> brand,
> type, and place to buy this stuff?
>
> thanks..
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
> Waiting on finish kit
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-4 fuselage skin overlap- long |
<< Another RV-4 fuselage skin question: I am about to drill and fit my F-424
rear side skins where they overlap the F-426 bottom skins. Is it true that
you want to trim the overlapping F-424 skin with a minimal edge distance to
the row of holes that it has in common with the F-426 in order to minimize
any "puckering" between rivets and so this skin will lie as flat as possible
on the F-426?
As always, your comments are highly appreciated.
Doug >>
Rule of thumb: 2D to the center of a hole from the edge. As you are using 3/32
rivets, you can use 3/16 as the ED for your rivet holes. This will allow a
very flat edge after riveting.
I hate to give away my secrets...... but we're all family, right? When you are
riveting a skin like the side skins on a -4, there is a slight tension at the
edge Doug mentions. If you rivet the skin with this tension in it, you will
have puckers at the edge- some slight, some more noticable. So, get rid of the
tension! When riveting the row of rivets along the bottom longeron, remove all
other clecoes (from the bulkheads and top longeron). The skin will not lay
flat against the fuse, but this is not important while you are riveting this
row along the bottom longeron. Finish riveting this row following the
directions below, install the rest of the clecoes, and bang away! Pay
particular attention to where the skin might need a 016 shim (or more) under
it to keep a smooth contour. I keep cups of various thicknesses handy while
I'm riveting. These are abut 5/8" square, and are pre-dimpled.
Start with the center rivet and work your way to each edge, right? Not really,
or at least, not always. You can start in the center, but rivet the end rivets
(or near the end) next. Then, the two in the center of those two distances.
Then, the four in the center of those four distances, and so on. Use this
technique on your elev and rudder spar/skin rivets also.
Doug: did I give you my tips on butt-joints for the -4 fuse? I recall telling
a few listers about that mod...
As an aside, I purchased one of those modified vise-grip edge rolling tools
from Cleaveland a while back- this thing makes flat-laying edges a very easy
task, and eliminates those unsightly over-bent pressure bends.
I'm sorry to take so long, but there is certainly a lot more to it than
drillin' an' fillin'.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roncace, Robert A" <Robert.Roncace(at)west.boeing.com> |
| Subject: | Freestanding Tail Jig - votes are in!!! |
Thanks to all who responded to my request for suggestions
on the freestanding tail jig!
Upon reflection, it certainly does seem that a few small
screw holes in the ceiling would not be too difficult
to patch. And 10 minutes with the stud finder sure beats
several hours fabricating trestles and stiffeners.
So, the freestanding jig problem is no longer a problem!
Thanks, and happy building.
Bob Roncace
(RV-6 tail kit, 2nd edition, by Christmas)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
YES! At last, someone asked, they really really asked (with apologies to
Judy Garland *grin*)
My empennage/wing jig is entirely freestanding, doubles as extra bench and
storage space, and is as solid as a rock. It took two weekends to build but
was worth it. I have photographs, will scan them over the weekend and put
them on my builders page.
http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm
(yes, I know I haven't done anything for months, mea cupla).
>
> While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
> I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
> than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
> of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
> have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Only the 6 is side-by-side, the rest, that are 2 place, are tandems.
-----Original Message-----
From: Besing, Paul <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: headphones
>
>I didn't know that RV's had backseats????????
>
>
>
>
>I need some expert advice, or device. My headphones do a great
>job when I am just listening, but when I key the mic to transmit,
>It sound like the volume is turned up wide open and it hurts my
>ears. I wired the headphone jacks the way the instructions
>showed, with no extra components such as caps or resistors in the
>circuits. I am using an Icom a-200 radio, and a set of
>lightspeed 20k's, and marv golden anr headsets in the rear. The
>lightspeeds are worse than the mg's. And it did the same thing
>before I ever wired in the backseat jacks. Any expert advice out
>there? Help! Thanks for any advice. Michael.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
Robert.Roncace(at)west.boeing.com wrote:
> While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
> I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
> than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
> of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
> have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration?
I did more or less what you want to do... bolted a 4x2 to each wall
then a shelf from there to the top of the jig post. Worked well.
For photos, hints, etc, go to
<http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm>.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
Bob,
Page 31 of my 18 YEARS OF RV-ATOR shows a photo of a free-standing jig that
should work. It is from the 3/89 issue.
Terry
RV-8 #729 rudder
Seattle
>While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
>I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
>than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
>of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
>have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
>I would love to open the crate on the flatbed, but I have to pay by
>the hour
>for the truck. How long should it take to unload the pieces if I try
>that?
>
>Thanks,
>Louis Cappucci
>Mamaroneck, NY
>
=============================
Don't know if the freight company will work with you, but how about a
rented or better borrowed 16 foot trailer to keep for a week.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | RV-4 fuselage skin overlap- long |
>As an aside, I purchased one of those modified vise-grip edge rolling
>tools
>from Cleaveland a while back- this thing makes flat-laying edges a
>very easy
>task, and eliminates those unsightly over-bent pressure bends.
>
>I'm sorry to take so long, but there is certainly a lot more to it
>than
>drillin' an' fillin'.
>
>Check six!
>Mark
==========================>
Thanks Mark:
I am about to rivet the side skins on my 6A. The rivet spec calls for 2-4
D edge distance. I have trimmed all but the area below the lower
longerons( above in the fixture.) Should I use the 2-4 D rule. and what
is the ED for say AN4 of AN5 bolts?
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 fuselage skin overlap |
Doug Weiler wrote:
>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> Another RV-4 fuselage skin question: I am about to drill and fit my F-424
> rear side skins where they overlap the F-426 bottom skins. Is it true that
> you want to trim the overlapping F-424 skin with a minimal edge distance to
> the row of holes that it has in common with the F-426 in order to minimize
> any "puckering" between rivets and so this skin will lie as flat as possible
> on the F-426?
>
> As always, your comments are highly appreciated.
>
> Doug
Doug
Your on the right track, just put a slight down turn on the edge of
the skin with the edge rolling tool and it will be just fine.
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hill <a0210209(at)rlemail.dseg.ti.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions neede |
This is what I did as well... One 2x4 held to the ceiling with
two screws. Everything else is screwed to these. I'm working in
an apartment, and though I haven't taken the jig down yet, I don't
think the two small screw holes will be a problem.
Jeff Orear wrote:
>
>
> Bob:
>
> Just a suggestion before you abandon a fixed jig. Could you screw on a
> couple of 2X4's through the drywall, and then attach your vertical posts to
> them? Then when you are done, remove the 2X4's, fix up the screw holes and
> dab alittle paint.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A 25171
> Wing Spars....almost ready to prime
> Peshtigo, WI
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rv-list(at)matronics.com <rv-list(at)matronics.com>
> To: Jorear
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 12:20 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions neede
>
> >
>
> >
> >Hello all;
> >
> >I expect Santa to bring me an RV-6 tail kit this Christmas.
> >
> >While planning my shop space (really a ground floor rec. room)
> >I've decided I'd prefer to build a freestanding jig rather
> >than bust through the drywall ceiling to access the joists
> >of the floor above. Has anyone else gone this route and
> >have pictures available or suggestions on a good configuration?
> >
> >I went to the RV-list archive at Matronics web site and found
> >a few messages on "Tail jigs" but none seemed to discuss the
> >freestanding variety. Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Bob Roncace
> >
> >P.S. This will be my second tail kit. Partially completed
> >the first in '89-'90, but military moves precluded any real
> >progress and I sold it in '94. Now out of the military
> >so it's time to try again!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Your Kit in all probability has been there and more on its journey. Don't
sweat the small stuff.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cappucci, Louis <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 4:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: qb delivery
>
>My qb kit is at the local terminal and now I need to get it home. One idea
>is to have it loaded onto a flatbed tow truck. The flatbed can be raised
and
>tilted down to the ground, then the crates (16'x4'x4' for the fuse) will be
>basically slid off into the driveway, after which I will start uncrating.
>Will the "unusual attitude" casued by tilting the crate cause any damage?
>How well crated is this thing?
>
>I would love to open the crate on the flatbed, but I have to pay by the
hour
>for the truck. How long should it take to unload the pieces if I try that?
>
>Thanks,
>Louis Cappucci
>Mamaroneck, NY
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
I would think that since the wool has such thin cross section, it would
quickly heat up and burn out. You are looking for mass to store the heat.
My vote is for a spring.
-----Original Message-----
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Crankcase vent line
>
>
><< Has anybody tried this steel wool pot scrubbing pad idea with
> the Robbins heater box???? I used a door spring in mine when I had the
> Tolle exhaust system, but now need something else in the Robbins muff
> used on the Veterman system....
> >>
>
>Interesting idea. With cold weather approaching, I will soon have the
chance
>to test my single Van's muff on the Vetterman crossover system (on the
down-
>pipe serving two cylinders). If the heat output is inadequate, I shall try
>the SS spuds inside the clamshell housing and get some temp data for the
list.
>A cold cockpit might even motivate me to install the interior sidewall
>upholstery panels for added R-value.
>
>I'd like to see the look on my Amway upline's face when I tell him why I'm
>ordering our company's Stainless Steel Scrubbing Spuds for use in my
>airplane..... I'm quite certain they don't have an FAA-PMA. Bogus
parts!!!!!
>
>Bill Boyd
>RV-6A 30 hrs
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Louis,
I think you have the answers. Sorry I was not available when you called.
GOOD LUCK
PS I have a 1/8" stop countersink.
david
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Coms Recieving Unwanted FM |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
I am inquiring for a friend who has an RV-4. He says his radios work
fine normally until he is over a large city, when the FM radio stations
start causing interference, coming in at times very clear, and
overshadowing tower communications. He has dual radios, and both do it.
He says it just recently started to this. Anybody know what causes this?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | panel labels and markings |
RV-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
At the risk of offending people, I just used a Brother "P-Touch" labeling
system with black letters on clear tape.
I did the same using the same machine. My panel is a metallic charcoal
color so used white lettering on clear tape. When applied only the white
lettering is visible and the clear blends in with the panel. Cost about 20
bucks for a roll of tape available in any stationary store. You can
probably rent the labeller from the stationary store as well.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
Beautiful British Columbia
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: placards and labels |
Aircraft Engravers
112 Canton Road
Granby CT 06035
Phone 860-653-2780
Fax 860-653-7324
They have many options. The one you describe sounds like the .020" Lexan,
reverse engraved. I got black strips with white letters painted in from the
back side, all on a peel and stick piece.
They came out great for my dash, so much so I took it up on a table and had
the entire dash displayed at EAA 486 Oswego Forum this summer. : )
Later, David McManmon Cicero NY RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris & Tammy Edwards <cte(at)csi.com> |
You are thinking of the same thing I am wondering about, but I thought
(Maybe wrong) the flap brace was as thick as the hinges. So are you saying
the flap brace is less than .032.
Thanks,
Chris Edwards
RV-8 QB #80231
N364TS
cte(at)csi.com
> Where and what do I want to countersink and dimple? I'm working on the
> skin that attaches to the flap brace and flap (piano) hinge. I was
> thinking of dimpling the skin, countersinking the brace and doing nothing
> to the hinge. Does this sound correct??
Howdy,
The e-mail from Scott McDaniels makes me wonder if we're thinking of the
same
question. In general, dimple whenever you can; it's stronger than
countersinking. In any event, do not countersink for 3/32" rivets in
material
less than 0.032" thick.
For the flap BRACE in particular, where the flap brace lies between the
skin and
hinge, dimple the skin and flap brace, and countersink the hinge.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Tim,
Don't know about "back riveting" Horiz Stab skins - but do know about
using a gun and flush rivet set: Throw away any non-swivel flush set
you have - only use a SWIVEL flush rivet set.
The swivel flush set gives very good quality - IF you do like Vincent
said and set your air pressure down.
My first half dozen flush skin rivets (first in my life) were done with
a non-swivel set - and pressure still at 80 psi from drilling
operations. Talk about a gun out of control and walking all over the
skin and "smilies"!!
David Carter, RV-6 left elevator, Nederland, Texas
> Vincent Himsl replied to Tim:
>
>
> Hello Tim,
>
> I trimmed as suggested in the plans and it was to close too one of the
> holes. So I just made the trim bigger and absorbed the hole. I didn't
> drill an additional hole. The triming is for attachment later to the rest
> of the airplane.
>
> Check the archives as there was a big discussion on this awhile back and I
> think there is also a change either in the rvator or the archives about the
> triming not being required for the RV8.
>
> Check with Van's!
>
> As for back riveting, I don't know. If you do it the standard way, make
> sure the air pressure to the rivet gun is <30 psi especially if you are a
> begining riveter like I was.
>
> Regards,
> Vince Himsl
> RV8 wings
> Moscow, ID USA
>
> At 07:53 AM 98.09.23 , you wrote:
>
> >Also I talked to some builders at Osh this year and they talked about back
> >riviting the top skins of the HS and the wings. If any one has done this,
> >how do you get the rivet gun around the rib flange to 90 degrees to form a
> >proper shop head ? Can you get an offset back rivet set for the rivet gun?
> >***************************
> >Tim Houle email: eprth(at)kneehill.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Skins |
Don, I think you've pointed me the right direction - squeeze harder,
which for me means set my pressure up from 80 psi to 100 or more, like
everyone else who shared how they do things on this topic. I was using
the lowest pressure of anyone who responded.
Thanks.
David Carter, RV-6, Left Elevator (pa...ted skeleton parts today),
Nederland, Texas
> Don Hyde responded to David Carter:
>
>
> I have gotten the same depressions with my hand squeezer, and they go away
> if the squeezer is set to squeeze a little harder. To get clean dimples,
> it seems to be necessary to squeeze pretty hard on the skin. I think
> you're pneumatic squeezer will make dimples just fine if you set it a
> little tighter (so that you get just a slight impression of the flat part
> of the dimple die around the dimple itself. The flat parts of the dies
> need to squeeze together to flatten the area around the dimple and
> eliminate that depression.
>
> SNIP
> >The "depressed area around the dimple and rivet" (about the diameter of
> >a dime) was definitely caused by using the pneumatic squeezer and 3/32
> >dimple dies. I dimpled half the row of holes on bottom skin of elevator
> >trim tab with squeezer and was seeing the depressed area - identical to
> >the entire right elevator skin at spar and ribs, which had caught my
> >attention.
> >
> SNIP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Bearing Length |
>I am putting the rudder back on, and would like to know what the
spar to spar distance is, or the distance from the holes on the bearings to
the spar. <
Check drawing 6. For the RV-8 there is a drawing in the bottom left corner
that specifies spar to spar distances of 2" at the tip and 2 1/2" at the
root.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
riveting top wing skins (2nd wing) tomorrow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Go rent a Uhaul, a 24ft box truck will do the job. Pick it up at the
terminal, that way they have to load it, and are responsible. Moving that
16ft fuse crate by hand is not going to work. Bring some 1ft pieces of 2x4,
and nail them to the floor of the truck to keep the crate from sliding
around. When you get home, unload the whole thing by hand. It took me about
3 hrs with 3 guys, including lots of pizza, beer, and bull.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
-----Original Message-----
>
>My qb kit is at the local terminal and now I need to get it home. One idea
>is to have it loaded onto a flatbed tow truck. The flatbed can be raised
and
>tilted down to the ground, then the crates (16'x4'x4' for the fuse) will be
>basically slid off into the driveway, after which I will start uncrating.
>Will the "unusual attitude" casued by tilting the crate cause any damage?
>How well crated is this thing?
>
>I would love to open the crate on the flatbed, but I have to pay by the
hour
>for the truck. How long should it take to unload the pieces if I try that?
>
>Thanks,
>Louis Cappucci
>Mamaroneck, NY
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
In race cars, especialy dragsters, they place a small diameter pipe in the
exhaust system. It's cut at an angle and placed in an approximate 45 degree
angle to the collector. At the crank case end, there is a one way valve (in
case of back fire). It's designed to create a vacume in the crank case for
more Horse Power. I've heard of such a system being used in a Long-Ez.
>> Had anybody tried welding a small pipe onto the exhaust and routing
>> the crankcase vent line into the ht gases. Seems that this would stop a
>> lot of the belly deposits...
>
>
>Fred,
>
>I believe the exhaust gas pressure would be too great,
>preventing proper crankcase ventilation and perhaps increasing
>crankcase pressure to the point of producing leaks at the
>seals.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
><< There was an article about an RV6 in a recent EAA publication where
> the builder used a laserprinter and plastic labels. It was one of
> those builders hints articles. >>
>
>That's what I did. Cheap and looks great. I can also change 'em anytime I
>want with little aggravation.
>
Gary,
What brand of plastic label did you use?
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
> Has anybody tried this steel wool pot scrubbing pad idea
>with
>the Robbins heater box???? I used a door spring in mine when I had the
>Tolle exhaust system, but now need something else in the Robbins muff
>used on the Veterman system....
>
>Fred Stucklen
>N925RV RV-6A
>E. Windsor, Ct
>
>
>
I have posted about this before.
Every airplane at Van's has S.S. scrubber pads in the heat muffs.
It's true that stainless isn't the ideal material to use but it works
very well and doesn't burn away over time like the copper scrubber pads
do.
I think the reason it helps improve the heat rise of the air is that
besides giving a lot more surface area for the air to conduct heat from,
it slows the air down as it goes through the muff which gives it more
time to soak up the heat.
We use the muff sold in the Accessories Cat.
I remove the little baffle that is riveted to the inside and then fill
the entire interior space with scrubber pads.
It reduces the volume of air slightly, but greatly improves the heat
output.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>The e-mail from Scott McDaniels makes me wonder if we're thinking of
>the same
>question. In general, dimple whenever you can; it's stronger than
>countersinking. In any event, do not countersink for 3/32" rivets in
>material
>less than 0.032" thick.
>
>For the flap BRACE in particular, where the flap brace lies between
>the skin and
>hinge, dimple the skin and flap brace, and countersink the hinge.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Jack Abell
>Los Angeles
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
>
>
>
>
Jack,
This is incorrect. It is described in the construction man, but I will
mention the main point.
You do not want to Machine countersink the hinge because it much softer
that the 2024-T3 parts. If you countersink it is not leaving much
material (soft material) for the rivets to hold in.
We don't dimple the hinge because it causes a lot of distortion and then
the hinge halves don'e mate together very well.
As a result the flap skin should be dimpled, the flap spar should be
machine countersunk, which then lets you have just plain holes
(strong holes) in the hinge segment. The same is done with the wing
skins, flap brace, and hinge.
This will give you a very strong attachment for your flaps.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Coms Recieving Unwanted FM |
It is caused by passive radiation by your ELT antenna and internals to your
active receiver of FM stations. Some ELTs are more prone than others. The
cheaper ones have less of a problem as my EBC doesn't while we replaced a
Sharc 7 because of the problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 8:25 PM
Subject: RV-List: Coms Recieving Unwanted FM
>
>Listers;
>
>I am inquiring for a friend who has an RV-4. He says his radios work
>fine normally until he is over a large city, when the FM radio stations
>start causing interference, coming in at times very clear, and
>overshadowing tower communications. He has dual radios, and both do it.
>He says it just recently started to this. Anybody know what causes this?
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Bearing Length |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Well, now I am putting the rudder back on, and would like to know what
>the
>spar to spar distance is, or the distance from the holes on the
>bearings to
>the spar.
>Thanks..
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>
It's on either the rudder drawing or the vertical stab. drawing.
I believe it is on the lower left corner of the drawing.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Bristol" <bbristol(at)intranet.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Hoshowski <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 8:29 PM
Subject: RV-List: panel labels and markings
>
>
>At the risk of offending people, I just used a Brother "P-Touch" labeling
>system with black letters on clear tape.
>
>I did the same using the same machine. My panel is a metallic charcoal
>color so used white lettering on clear tape. When applied only the white
>lettering is visible and the clear blends in with the panel. Cost about 20
>bucks for a roll of tape available in any stationary store. You can
>probably rent the labeller from the stationary store as well.
>
>Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
>Beautiful British Columbia
>
Listers,
I also did this on my RV6A using the clear tape with black lettering. I
then clearcoated the panel and the end result looks great.
Bob Bristol Rv6A C-GCTZ 32 hours bbristol(at)intranet.ca
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Coms Recieving Unwanted FM |
>
>Listers;
>
>I am inquiring for a friend who has an RV-4. He says his radios work
>fine normally until he is over a large city, when the FM radio stations
>start causing interference, coming in at times very clear, and
>overshadowing tower communications. He has dual radios, and both do it.
>He says it just recently started to this. Anybody know what causes this?
Yes, but there are several possible causes. I need some answers to questions.
1. Did it not do it before or did he just not notice it before?
2. Does he hear more than one FM station at the same time or is it just
one particular station?
3. Does he hear it on some particular frequency, e.g. tower, ATIS, unicom,
etc., or does he hear it on all frequencies?
The first thing to look for is a problem in the antenna wiring. Make sure
that the coax is solid and that all connections are tight, especially
ground connections (to the aircraft metalwork). I suspect a bad connection
that is acting as a diode and mixing multiple signals into the aviation
frequencies. If it is on all frequencies then I suspect front-end overload
and there is less that one can do with that.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Paul, I thought I heard someone say only real rv's have
backseats. ha.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line- K.I.S.S. |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
Be sure to put that whistle vent into any breather system.
>
Please correct me if I am wrong, but the way that most RV builders
install breather tubes, they do not require a whistle hole (or what I
have more often heard it called... an ice hole.
It has been a while since I have done regular A&P type work so I may be
off base here, but years ago their were AD's on some aircraft requiring
ice holes be installed in the breather tubes.
These AD's were only issued on aircraft that had breather lines that were
directed out of the cowl into the free stream air.
In the winter (or at altitude) when it can get real cold the cold air
could freeze the condensed moisture that was in the tube and eventually
block of the opening.
When that happens the front crankshaft seal blows out, and your oil
supply blows out right after that.
A small hole (ice, whistle, what ever) was to be put into the tube
somewhere inside the cowling where it couldn't possibly ice over, to act
as a pressure relief point in case the main hole iced up.
I have seen very few RV builders put their breather tube through a hole
in the bottom of the cowl. This type of an installation is the only one
that I know of that would require an ice hole.
If your directing your breather tube on the exhaust pipe, inside of the
confines of the cowl, then you don't need a whistle hole.
Please tell me if you know of any other info to the contrary.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anthony K. Self" <chevy_truck(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Big guy, little planes |
I'm just about to order a -8 tailkit. But first, I would really appreciate
some of your opinions. Specifically, I need to hear from any of you over 6
feet tall who have sat in the -8. I am 6' 6" tall and about 250 lbs. I sat
in a -6A a couple years ago and it was way to small. Maybe it was just the
way the guy built it, but I couldn't possibly be comfortable in that -6A.
I'm a student pilot now, and I've had problems getting lessons in a plane
that I can fly due to my size. A Cessna 150 fits me like a wetsuit,
impossible to fly. I can get in a Piper Cherokee, but barely. A Cessna 172
is the only one that's been comfortable so far. What can I expect from
the -8? Thanks in advance.
Anthony Self
RV8 wannabe
CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Captain Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
that rv-6 that had the backside engraved laminate panel was certainly a
beautiful plane. its paint scheme was that of a two tone Mooney (sp?)
green and white. if anyone has pics please emailem to me.
his name was
Werner Berry aircraft components
14331 Livingston St.
tustin, CA 92780
(714) 838-8946
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | headphones and.. |
Thanks for the advice on the sidetone adjustment. Also,
I buzzed over to Taylor, Texas the other day to check out Mark
Frederick's operation. It looks like he has a pretty good setup
going over there. I was pretty impressed with the Rocket. The 2
extra cylinders felt pretty good, even from the back seat. It's
roll rate was impressive, too. It was a lot faster than my -4.
He also had an interesting project going that will be some
serious competition for the Pushy, when it comes time for the
next climb time competition. It looked something like a cross
between a rv-3 and a mig 17. Can't wait to see that one fly.
Uh, oh, I've said too much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< You need to adjust the microphone gain and/or output from your
radio. Your radio's manual will tell you where. The same
thing was happening on a local RV-6A, and these adjustments fixed
it. >>
You don't want to lower the mic gain unless you're overmodulating the carrier.
If you do you will reduce your radio's OA performance. Get someone to listen
to your transmissions on their comm and see if this is the case. If the level
of your transmissions are comparable to other source transmissions, then leave
the mic gain alone and concentrate on adjusting the sidetone.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Captain Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What kind of fiberglass? |
most of the builders I ran across were using epoxy resin from west systems
sold at west marine. I've been using it for years on my model stuff with
great results and no stink.. if you buy the metering pumps (15$ I think) it
will meter the mixture automatically. re: one pump of epoxy and one pump of
hardener. also there is two types of hardener or rather speeds. slow and
fast. I generally use the slow cure for overnight set. the fast cure on a
warm night will will set very rapidly.
perhaps another lister will offer some suggestions as to which weight of
glass cloth would best suit your needs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Captain Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
if you have a copy of 18 years of the rv-ator look on page 31 there's a
photo of a freestanding jig . if you do not have a copy I'll be glad to scan
and e-mail the pic.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Coms Recieving Unwanted FM |
>I am inquiring for a friend who has an RV-4. He says his radios work
>fine normally until he is over a large city, when the FM radio stations
>start causing interference, coming in at times very clear, and
>overshadowing tower communications. He has dual radios, and both do it.
>He says it just recently started to this. Anybody know what causes this?
This is a common maladay of receivers (designed to pick tiny signals
out of the noisy ether) when bombarded with strong signals from multiple
sources. Sometimes it's a matter of poor receiver design. If this is
a NEW condition on an old installation there's a possiblity that a
corroded joint between two conductors on the airplane is providing
the not-so-good ground that allows mixing of strong signals to take
place. The result of the mix is a myriad of new signals at the sum
and difference frequencies of all strong signals present AND their
harmonics. The general result is a cacophony of noises that drive
the receiver nuts.
I used to maintain two-way radio systems on tall towers near or
in multiple strong signal sources . . . sometimes the problem was
created by degredation of a metalic joint in and adjacent structure,
something I couldn't even investigate or fix. In the case of your
friend's airplane, has it been recently painted? He needs to try
unhooking the antenna from each radio and flying over the area where
the interference is worst. Sometimes a bad connection in one antenna
provides the noise source for BOTH radios but will go away or be
markedly reduced when one antenna is disconnected.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Coms Recieving Unwanted FM |
>It is caused by passive radiation by your ELT antenna and internals to your
>active receiver of FM stations. Some ELTs are more prone than others. The
>cheaper ones have less of a problem as my EBC doesn't while we replaced a
>Sharc 7 because of the problem.
Another excellent possiblity. Try disconnecting the ELT antenna
from the transmitter to see if the problem is altered. This may
be in the antenna connections and not the ELT itself . . .
particularly if it's a new problem. A poorly designed ELT would
have caused the problem from day-one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Robbins Heat Muffs |
>
> Has anybody tried this steel wool pot scrubbing pad idea with
>the Robbins heater box???? I used a door spring in mine when I had the
>Tolle exhaust system, but now need something else in the Robbins muff
>used on the Veterman system....
>
>Fred Stucklen
>
Fred:
In my RV-6 I installed Robbins heat muffs without springs, scrub pads or
other fillers. I did however, limit the outlet flow from the muff as was
suggested in the directions. The directions didn't specifiy how much to
limit the flow, so I guessed and drilled six 3/8" dia. holes in the muff
body at the outlet port. This seems to work well.
I have two muffs and two selector boxes -- one for the pilot and one for the
passenger. As far as I am concerned, I get more than enough heat. If I
open the selector box much more than 50% I burn my toes -- even on the
coldest days. I get enough heat that I probably could have got along with
only one heat muff. (I do like the separate heat controls though.)
Now ... getting a little more of that hot air up on my shoulders (without
burning my toes) is a problem that I have not yet solved.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 280 hrs
Green Bay, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gar Pessel <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 Elevator Trim Tab Spar |
>
>Anyone receive an E-607 trim tab spar with flanges that didn't line up
>with the pre-punched holes in trim tab skin?
>
>When I flushed top flange with top skin, the bottom flange was about 1/4
>inch too far aft, putting pre-punched holes right at start of radius up
>from bottom flange to web - was a pain to revise the bends and get
>adequate edge distance.
Mine was off about the same amount. It was corrected by noodling around
with seamers and one of Orndorff's small homebuilt metal brakes. Somewhat
of a pain, but I assumed it to be part of the process of getting this thing
done. Well, maybe it could have been perfect to begin with, but then it
would not have been a challenge. Incidentally, the angle the spar flanges
make with the skin on the TT is critical. It does not take much of an
error to cause the skin to either bow up or flex down, so a certain amount
of patience and noodling is worth while. Also, I found building small ribs
for both the left elevator and the TT to be well worth the effort, and
obviously much simpler than trying to do the bends. Again, I used the
Orndorff brake. All you need to do is get the angle correct, and you can
cut off the ends of the rib to fit the openning and easily see that the
skin is lying flat. Probably stronger than bending the tabs too. Gar
Pessel, Fairbanks, AK RV6 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Revision 8 ?????? (off list) |
>
>I saw you not that revision 8 has gone to the printer.
>
>What is this and what is Revision 8 ????
check out http://www.aeroelectric.com/order.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pdsmith" <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Big guy, little planes |
You should have no problem at all. I'm 6'2" and had tons of room. There is
even a tall pilot option that's only recommended for people of your height
and more. Also check the back issues of the RVator for Ken's thoughts on the
"Bubba factor".
phil smith
RV8 builder 80619
>I'm just about to order a -8 tailkit. But first, I would really appreciate
>some of your opinions. Specifically, I need to hear from any of you over 6
>feet tall who have sat in the -8. I am 6' 6" tall and about 250 lbs. I sat
>in a -6A a couple years ago and it was way to small. Maybe it was just the
>way the guy built it, but I couldn't possibly be comfortable in that -6A.
>I'm a student pilot now, and I've had problems getting lessons in a plane
>that I can fly due to my size. A Cessna 150 fits me like a wetsuit,
>impossible to fly. I can get in a Piper Cherokee, but barely. A Cessna 172
>is the only one that's been comfortable so far. What can I expect from
>the -8? Thanks in advance.
>
>Anthony Self
>RV8 wannabe
>CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
Steve Formhals got the idea from my newsletter which described exactly what he
said in his article. The only difference was that he put borders around the
labels. This system is very easy to do and is very inexpensive. Easy to
change too.
Jim Cone
Past Editor, Van's Air Force, Tri-state Wing Newsletter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What kind of fiberglass? |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
What is the e-mail address for West Marine? And how much epoxy would you
recommend for the average RV?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Fellow Listers,
It's with great sadness to report the tragic accident I witnessed last
Friday morning. My flying companion (for the first time), Milan Stavenik
Jr., perished after failing to climb enough after taking off from the
Crescent Lake State Airport, here in Oregon, on our way to the Alvord Desert
Fly-in. Milan's all fiberglass "Cora" experimental airplane clipped a tree
with it's right wing, breaking it (the wing) off at about 50-75 ft. in
elevation. I had already taken off, and was circling above waiting for him
to do the same. For reasons I still don't understand, his plane wouldn't
climb from the 4000 ft. long runway (my Carrera Ultralight was about 500 ft
high when I passed the end of the runway on take-off, and the previous day,
his plane out-climbed and out performed my plane in every way). The plane
burst into flames around the engine area immediately after hitting the
ground. By the time I landed and got to him (and I got down FAST), the
fiberglass plane was fully engulfed in flames, and he had failed to get out
of it. It was un-real how fast that plane burned. I don't know if the impact
knocked him out, if he died from the initial impact (he didn't wear a
helmet), or the fire got him while he was trapped inside. I'd like to think
the impact got him.
This accident has had a very sobering effect on me. It hasn't diminished
my love of flying, but it makes me want to take every precaution possible to
prevent this from happening again to me or any of my flying buddies. I'd
always wondered if something like this would change my love of flying (so
far, it hasn't).
It seems to me that the Aluminum RV's are far better than fiberglass
planes for their fire resistance alone. I can't imagine an aluminum plane
burning like that, unless it was fed by gasoline or something else.
Milan was origionally from the Czech Republic, and moved to the US in
1984, living in Portland where he imported (from the Czech Republic) the
carbon fiber Sportprops (the BEST Ultralight and light plane propellers, in
my opinion), and other light plane equipment, including the Cora he was flying.
Milan's life revolved around flying and his family. I'll miss his good
nature and sense of humor. The flying community has suffered a real loss
with the un-timely death of this fine man. Godspeed Milan, I miss you.
RV builders and flyers--you have a big safety advantage in not having a
plane that will burn like a styrofoam cup.
Sincerely
Randy Simpson
p.s. Since the weather was stormy behind me, I proceded on to the Alvord
Desert after talking to the State Police, and the FAA investigators when
they finally showed up from Portland. I had told them that Milan's wife,
daughter, and Mother were gonna meet us at the Alvord, and where at the
desert they'd be. Well, when I got there (a whole day later than planned,
and a day and a half after the accident), Milan's family still hadn't been
notified, were still waiting, and were really getting nervous. Guess who had
the extremely unpleasant job of telling them? Me. It was the hardest thing
I've ever done. To top it off, it was his daughters 10th birthday that day.
Please prepare and fly smart like your life depends on it...IT DOES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
Chris & Tammy Edwards wrote:
>
> You are thinking of the same thing I am wondering about, but I thought
> (Maybe wrong) the flap brace was as thick as the hinges. So are you saying
> the flap brace is less than .032.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris Edwards
> RV-8 QB #80231
> N364TS
> cte(at)csi.com
>
> > Where and what do I want to countersink and dimple? I'm working on the
> > skin that attaches to the flap brace and flap (piano) hinge. I was
> > thinking of dimpling the skin, countersinking the brace and doing nothing
> > to the hinge. Does this sound correct??
>
> Howdy,
>
> The e-mail from Scott McDaniels makes me wonder if we're thinking of the
> same
> question. In general, dimple whenever you can; it's stronger than
> countersinking. In any event, do not countersink for 3/32" rivets in
> material
> less than 0.032" thick.
>
> For the flap BRACE in particular, where the flap brace lies between the
> skin and
> hinge, dimple the skin and flap brace, and countersink the hinge.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jack Abell
> Los Angeles
> RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
I don't remember how thick the flap brace is. All I know is that it's thin enough
to dimple and I could dimple it without deforming it; therefore, I dimpled it
because countersinking it would weaken it more than dimpling. I couldn't dimple
the hinge without deforming it, and it was thick enough to countersink. End of
story.
As I said before, my approach is to dimple wherever I can for the sake of
strength. If I can't dimple, I must ensure that the material is at least 0.032"
thick to countersink for 3/32" rivets. Thus, even if the flap hinge is 0.032"
or
more, I would still dimple it if I could.
Jack Abell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Flight from midwest to west coast |
You do *not* want to fly VFR through mountains when the ceilings are lower
than the hills around you. It would be real, real tricky to fly your
RV through those tunnels that suddenly appear in front of you.
Hi Flatlanders -
If the ceiling gets low in the mountains - follow the low ground to the
nearest airport.
1) Rivers, the lowest ground.
2) Railroads, no steep grades or turns.
3) Roads, can climb over passes and into the cloud base. Switchbacks or
sharp turns on secondary roads may cause you to loose sight of the road and
enter or follow a wrong valley.
Tunnels should be part of your thorough pre-flight preparation which should
also include marking the heading and reciprocal heading on straight(er)
portions of mountain passes. It is easy to miss turns and get lost when the
ceiling and visability go down unexpectedly, also highlight the altitude of
mountain passes on your map.
Probably the greatest difference weatherwise from flat country flying is
that a lot of the weather in the mountains is locally generated, towering
cumulus and thunderstorms can build on the side of a hill and dump
precipitation (rain, snow) into the valley you are trying to follow.
Weather on the opposite side of the mountain or valley may be ok.
Never-Never enter a mountain pass unless there is adequate room to turn
around or you can see completely through the pass to lower ground on the
other side.
The Coquahalla highway about 80 miles east of Vancouver B.C. has a 4400
foot pass that can be treacherous when entered from the east, the valley
turns 90 degrees and becomes too narrow to turn around, at this point you
are meeting the warm moist air blowing up the other side of the pass from
the west coast and sometimes a solid wall of cloud. There have been several
accidents here.
Another problem Flatlanders will encounter initially is judging distance
from hills and valley walls. Your depth perception works out to about 200
feet. Beyond that it is the brain, based on previous experience, that
estimates how far away things are. On your first flight into the mountains
budget a little time for experimentation. Let your brain learn to judge
distance from the hills.
Find a gentle valley, fly in a ways and do some 360 degree turns, look at
the valley floor to estimate how much of the valley width you used.
Individual tree size on the hillside is one depth perception clue that will
disappear above the treeline.
Now tell me, how do you ever find your way around over all that flat ground
without mountains for landmarks?
George McNutt 6A
Langley B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Drumm <jdrumm(at)dgs.dgsys.com> |
Sorry to bother everyone with such a simple question, but I can't seem to
back-rivet. Before riveting my stiffners, I did some tests on some scrap
and left over angle. I can't seem to get the gun straight. My shop heads
always come out slanted. I tried to hold the gun as steady as I could. I
have the 2x gun from Avery. I tried different air pressures. What
should I be using?
Any tips greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Joe
RV-8 Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line- K.I.S.S. |
A
>If your directing your breather tube on the exhaust pipe, inside of the
>confines of the cowl, then you don't need a whistle hole.
>
>Please tell me if you know of any other info to the contrary.
Scott
In Canada the "whistle hole" is required. It is such a simple thing
that I do not know why anyone would object to it. Just drill a 1/4" hole in
the tube. It does not leak under normal operation and will be there if you
need it
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
GV, I have a similar question and you sound like you know this stuff. I
have a Terra 720 that is broken and unreadable when I transmit. I
receive fine, and the mic seems fine in that I can record on a
patched-in recorder and the voice is clear. I took the radio to the
shop and they said that other than the gain set a little high they could
find no problem. Is it possible that my intercom is
overdriving/overmodulating the transmitter, could the solution be as
simple as turning down the volume control on the intercom (or does that
only effect the receive channel?). Any suggestions would be
appreciated.
Ed Anderson Mazda Powered RV-6A N494BW Flown
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> << You need to adjust the microphone gain and/or output from your
> radio. Your radio's manual will tell you where. The same
> thing was happening on a local RV-6A, and these adjustments fixed
> it. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Crankcase vent line |
Cy,
The stainless scrub pads I had in mind are very coarse, not your
everyday fine steel type...
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Galley [SMTP:cgalley(at)accessus.net]
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 6:04 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Crankcase vent line
>
>
> I would think that since the wool has such thin cross section, it
> would
> quickly heat up and burn out. You are looking for mass to store the
> heat.
> My vote is for a spring.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 4:47 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Crankcase vent line
>
>
> >
> >
> ><< Has anybody tried this steel wool pot scrubbing pad idea with
> > the Robbins heater box???? I used a door spring in mine when I had
> the
> > Tolle exhaust system, but now need something else in the Robbins
> muff
> > used on the Veterman system....
> > >>
>
to provide some benefit.
>
> Try it, it's cheap.
>
> -GV
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jandjnetserv <jandjnetserv(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Big guy, little planes |
This was my excuse for going all the way to Oshkosh this year - to sit in the 8A.
I'm 6'3" and somewhere the wrong side of 250 lb on a good day, and I had plenty
of
room all round. At least 6" of headroom.
Now if the Oz $ will just stop going thru the floor I'll get the QB order in!
Rgds
John
Anthony K. Self wrote:
>
> I'm just about to order a -8 tailkit. But first, I would really appreciate
> some of your opinions. Specifically, I need to hear from any of you over 6
> feet tall who have sat in the -8. I am 6' 6" tall and about 250 lbs. I sat
> in a -6A a couple years ago and it was way to small. Maybe it was just the
> way the guy built it, but I couldn't possibly be comfortable in that -6A.
> I'm a student pilot now, and I've had problems getting lessons in a plane
> that I can fly due to my size. A Cessna 150 fits me like a wetsuit,
> impossible to fly. I can get in a Piper Cherokee, but barely. A Cessna 172
> is the only one that's been comfortable so far. What can I expect from
> the -8? Thanks in advance.
>
> Anthony Self
> RV8 wannabe
> CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
*****************************************************************
...... I'd rather be flying .....or building an RV8....
John Duncan M.C.N.E. PPL(A) J.P. AOPA(Aust)#42745 EAA#548147
J & J Network Services Pty Ltd
P.O. Box 109 Minto N.S.W. 2566
Australia
jandjnetserv(at)ibm.net
*****************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 fuselage skin overlap- long |
<< I am about to rivet the side skins on my 6A. The rivet spec calls for 2-4
D edge distance. I have trimmed all but the area below the lower
longerons( above in the fixture.) Should I use the 2-4 D rule. and what
is the ED for say AN4 of AN5 bolts?
>>
As far as I know, 2D is the minimum for any hole in aluminum. 4D wouls allow a
bit more of a chance for an edge to roll up- I'd trim if possible.
If you hear any reason for a larger edge distance, let me know!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 fuselage skin overlap- long |
<< I am about to rivet the side skins on my 6A. The rivet spec calls for 2-4
D edge distance. I have trimmed all but the area below the lower
longerons( above in the fixture.) Should I use the 2-4 D rule. and what
is the ED for say AN4 of AN5 bolts?
>>
As far as I know, 2D is the minimum for any hole in aluminum. 4D wouls allow a
bit more of a chance for an edge to roll up- I'd trim if possible.
If you hear any reason for a larger edge distance, let me know!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | What kind of fiberglass? |
Von,
I priced out the West System products at my local marine shop and
they were twice the cost of the Aero-Poxy from Spruce. I paid about $48
for a 1/2 gal from spruce (2 qt containers...)
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: n41va(at)juno.com [SMTP:n41va(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 1:46 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: What kind of fiberglass?
>
>
> What is the e-mail address for West Marine? And how much epoxy would
> you
> recommend for the average RV?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting |
Joe Drumm wrote:
>
> Sorry to bother everyone with such a simple question, but I can't seem to
> back-rivet. Before riveting my stiffners, I did some tests on some scrap
> and left over angle. I can't seem to get the gun straight. My shop heads
> always come out slanted. I tried to hold the gun as steady as I could. I
> have the 2x gun from Avery. I tried different air pressures. What
> should I be using?
>
> Any tips greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joe
> RV-8 Tail
The most common mistake I have observed which gives awful rivets when first
attempting back rivetting is this: The rivet guy doesn't realize he must push
the gun down enough to compress teh spring on the rivet set. You must have the
nosepiece in contact with the rivet before squeezing the trigger.
Hope this helps
DLW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Big guy, little planes |
Anthony,
I was at the Van's tent at Oshkosh this year when a really big guy got in
the 8A. If I remember right he was also 6'6" or more. They took out one of
the cushions from the seat (there are two needed for guys like me (5'7") to
get good ground visibility). He had to bend down quite a bit to get the
canopy to slide forward but he still had a couple of inches head room when
it was closed.
I don't know if the seat is built on the floor (not that far yet) or there
are posts that can be shortened.
Regards,
Bob
RV8 #423
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
>
> You do *not* want to fly VFR through mountains when the ceilings are lower
> than the hills around you. It would be real, real tricky to fly your
> RV through those tunnels that suddenly appear in front of you.
>
>
> Hi Flatlanders -
> [bunch of excellent advice deleted]
> Now tell me, how do you ever find your way around over all that flat ground
> without mountains for landmarks?
In Minnesota -- lakes. Also, the sectional roads make it REAL easy to
come out on your desired headings when taking your private pilot checkride.
Every mile there's a road running N/S or E/W. And those farm fields make
for great spots for practicing turns around a rectangle. For turns around
a point, I like grain silos. Kind of like having your own little pylon to
fly around.
-J
________________________________________________________________________________
dear listers,
i need to know the torque values on the wing rib bolts, also, the bolts face
rearward with the nuts aft, does it get a washer in front and in back of the
rib.
thanks
scott
winging it in tampa
hoping hurricaine georges want blow me away !!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
in florida
you cant fly very far untill your over water, then it is either north or
south
scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Big guy, little planes |
i think it might depend on the seats
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DJKKS502(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting |
Joe,
My shop heads
> always come out slanted. I tried to hold the gun as steady as I could. I
> have the 2x gun from Avery. I tried different air pressures. What
> should I be using?
I always used a number 5 domed type rivet set in the gun instead of a
flat one. It helps to keep the gun on the rivet, and to keep it straight and
centered. Does a nice job on the work side of the rivet too. Hope this
helps.
Don Simmons N144DN RV-4 250Hr. Redding CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Prayers are being said for milan and his family.
________________________________________________________________________________
Guys,
I went through this several times with hand helds until it hit me... These
are active mikes. They require voltage to drive them.
I checked with a good technician at Sporty's who services their units and
verified this. Some headsets are not compatible with some hand helds. I had
to ditch my favorite David Clark electret set for a Sigtronics when using my
HT because the "DC" takes 7V to drive and the voice is unreadable on the
hand held. The Sigtronics only needs 5v and it's perfectly readable although
it sounds much weaker than I would like it to be.
Bob
RV8 #423
GV, I have a similar question and you sound like you know this stuff. I
have a Terra 720 that is broken and unreadable when I transmit. I
receive fine, and the mic seems fine in that I can record on a
patched-in recorder and the voice is clear. I took the radio to the
shop and they said that other than the gain set a little high they could
find no problem. Is it possible that my intercom is
overdriving/overmodulating the transmitter, could the solution be as
simple as turning down the volume control on the intercom (or does that
only effect the receive channel?). Any suggestions would be
appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
TIP
When using the peel and stick labels on the panel, make a template about 1/8
to 3/16 larger than the label and finch(clear coat) over the label. This will
protect the print if it is printed on the outside of the label, and it will
also keep the labels from peeling in the corners after passage of time.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Sorry to bother everyone with such a simple question, but I can't seem
>to
>back-rivet. Before riveting my stiffners, I did some tests on some
>scrap
>and left over angle. I can't seem to get the gun straight. My shop
>heads
>always come out slanted. I tried to hold the gun as steady as I
>could. I
>have the 2x gun from Avery. I tried different air pressures. What
>should I be using?
>
>Any tips greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>Joe
>RV-8 Tail
>
>
>
Is it possible that you are just using rivets that are too long?
Back riveting is even less forgiving of too long of rivets than driving
them the normal way (with a gun and bucking bar).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>As I said before, my approach is to dimple wherever I can for the sake
>of
>strength. If I can't dimple, I must ensure that the material is at
>least 0.032"
>thick to countersink for 3/32" rivets. Thus, even if the flap hinge
>is 0.032" or
>more, I would still dimple it if I could.
>
>Jack Abell
>
>
>
Jake,
I am only responding to your response for the benefit of other new
builders on the list so that they are clear on the factory recommended
way of doing this assembly.
You are free to deviate from that if you wish
Van's recommends dimpling in any situation that you can (for added
strength) except this one.
The flap spar and the flap brace are sandwiched between the skin and the
hinge so even though it is machine countersunk (when done as recommended
in the manual) it is not as much of a strength issue as having a hinge
attached that is made of soft material, much of which gas been cut away
because of machine countersinking.
I highly recommend builders follow the instructions in the manual for
these assemblies. Their is a reason engineering specified doing it
differently from what you might first expect.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
In a message dated 9/25/98 12:42:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com writes:
<< how do you ever find your way around over all that flat ground
without mountains for landmarks? >>
I used to live in the Midwest. The answer is WATER TOWERS.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A O320 Engine baffles |
Listers,
I'm in the middle of installing the engine baffles. I've got the sides and
rear in pretty good shape and am starting on the front left floor. My
question(s) deals with how the floor and side fits up to the cowl inlet.
Of course, the answer(s) to this question will work on both sides. If
some of you folks out there who've experienced this would be so kind
to help, I know some others are most likely going to appreciate your
help. I've found a good part of the baffles baffling so far. :-) Lots of
trial fitting and I've not even trimmed any of the top! Thank goodness
the holes were drilled for the bolts and act as reference points.
Per the drawings, it looks as if the floor and side both end about 3/8"
behind the inlet opening flange's rear edge. However, the drawing for
the floor also mentions making the fit so the side goes about the middle
of the notch of the inlet. I'm assuming the notch is the space between
the outside inlet flange and the side of the cowl. Obviously, the floor
has to be behind the flange to be able to get the cowl off. I'm just not
sure why the side would have to go forward beyond the flange rear
edge. To fit in the middle of the notch would also mean that the floor
would be wider at the front to fit to the side wall.
1. Do you end the sidewall so that it is 3/8" behind and flush to the
rear edge of the inlet; or, does it extend into the notch?
2. If the sidewall does extend past the inlet, which also forces me to
widen the floor at the front, what does that buy me? I'm pretty sure
that it must deal with being able to get the seal material up to the cowl's
front as far as possible to keep down the leaks. Maybe not.
3. I noticed there is a good curve in the lower outer corner of the inlet
that makes for a good gap where air could get through. How much
trouble is it to put the gap seal in that area for a good seal? Did you
use another method such as curving some aluminum from the floor to
the side to make a better fit there; or, did you overlap the material and
let it just settle in where it wanted to do the filling.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Working more hours and getting further behind)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
Do like Moe said...get the Uhaul...actually, get a Ryder...the Uhaul trucks
have wheel wells in them and makes a pain for loading...the Ryder trucks
have a flat bed inside them...
It shouldn't cost you more than about $50 for the day, and you can unpack it
right in the truck...
Have fun with all of that wood and paper...I wish I would have taken a
picture of it so you can see just how much trash you are going to have left
over!!!!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Ouch that hurts! |
Oops- DUH!!!!! See what I get for being a smart ass!! Us -6 builders
forget about the whole back seat thing with the -4's sometimes.....
Thanks for casting a light on my stupidity!!!
Paul Besing
>
>Only the 6 is side-by-side, the rest, that are 2 place, are tandems.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Besing, Paul <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
>To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
>Date: Thursday, September 24, 1998 3:36 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: headphones
>
>
>>
>>I didn't know that RV's had backseats????????
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
> >The e-mail from Scott McDaniels makes me wonder if we're thinking of
> >the same
> >question. In general, dimple whenever you can; it's stronger than
> >countersinking. In any event, do not countersink for 3/32" rivets in
> >material
> >less than 0.032" thick.
> >
> >For the flap BRACE in particular, where the flap brace lies between
> >the skin and
> >hinge, dimple the skin and flap brace, and countersink the hinge.
> >
> >Best wishes,
> >
> >Jack Abell
> >Los Angeles
> >RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Jack,
> This is incorrect. It is described in the construction man, but I will
> mention the main point.
> You do not want to Machine countersink the hinge because it much softer
> that the 2024-T3 parts. If you countersink it is not leaving much
> material (soft material) for the rivets to hold in.
> We don't dimple the hinge because it causes a lot of distortion and then
> the hinge halves don'e mate together very well.
> As a result the flap skin should be dimpled, the flap spar should be
> machine countersunk, which then lets you have just plain holes
> (strong holes) in the hinge segment. The same is done with the wing
> skins, flap brace, and hinge.
> This will give you a very strong attachment for your flaps.
>
> Scott McDaniels
Listers,
I'm acutely embarrassed by my mistaken advice to a fellow builder quoted above.
I
stand corrected by Scott McDaniels.
My apologies to the list.
Jack Abell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>
>Fellow Listers,
> It's with great sadness to report the tragic accident I witnessed last
>Friday morning.
That is no fun. (Yes, that is the understatement for the day.)
I had a similar experience at the Georgetown, CA, fly-in about 3 years ago.
My sons, 8 and 14 at that time, and I were talking with a gentleman with a
Lancair 290 which he had outfitted for 'round-the-world flying. Minutes
later he and his wife took off, failed to achieve flying speed, ran off the
end of the runway, and burned. We couldn't do anything and I had to
explain to an eight-year-old that the man we were just talking to was now
dead.
Making go/no-go decisions ahead of time, i.e. before you start your takeoff
roll, would go a long way toward ensuring that your friends and
acquaintences don't have to go through this.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | turning around in a canyon or valley |
>Find a gentle valley, fly in a ways and do some 360 degree turns, look at
>the valley floor to estimate how much of the valley width you used.
>Individual tree size on the hillside is one depth perception clue that will
>disappear above the treeline.
Turn radius decreases with decreasing airspeed. Slow down so you can turn
within the confines of the valley. Anyone contemplating this should
practice turns during slow flight while avoiding an accelerated stall.
As I recall, a chandelle is supposed to be a minimum radius turn explicitly
designed to reverse course within the confines of a valley or canyon with
rising terrain. Not as common would be a hammerhead turn or an immelman
turn but these need more vertical space.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
> I used to live in the Midwest. The answer is WATER TOWERS.
> Jim Nice
Jim:
A great story used to go around Moose Jaw, the Canadian air force's
main pilot training base.
A student got lost on his first solo, low-level navigation flight.
Southern Saskatchewan can be tough to navigate over at 500 AGL and
250 ktas (normal student parameters). One road looks pretty much
like another. Half the towns on the map don't exist anymore.
Likewise for the railroad lines.
So, following SOPs, he climbed up enough to get radio contact
with the base, and spoke to the ops officer.
"I'm lost."
"Can you see any features you might be able to recognize on the
map."
"I see a town with a grain elevator. I'm going to try to identify
it."
A long pause followed, while the student buzzed the town and tried
to read the name on the grain elevator. Then he replied.
"I'm near POOL, but I can't find it on the map!"
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 tail (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gar Pessel <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting |
>
>
>Sorry to bother everyone with such a simple question, but I can't seem to
>back-rivet. Before riveting my stiffners, I did some tests on some scrap
>and left over angle. I can't seem to get the gun straight. My shop heads
>always come out slanted. I tried to hold the gun as steady as I could. I
>have the 2x gun from Avery. I tried different air pressures. What
>should I be using?
I got the same result if there was any oil at all on the back rivet set.
Dry it out thoroughly before use. BTW, you are using a set with a spring
loaded collar, I hope. I use 40 to 45# on the 2x gun and get consistent
good results. I also slide the set around on the rivet shank to get more
or less in the center of the set before attempting to rivet. It seems to
work better if you are not up against the collar to start with. Firm
downward pressure also helps. Gar Pessel, Fairbanks AK RV6 empennage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
With the recent wisdom of Scott I have now figured out why my trim tab looks
so screwy!...I had big problems making the hinge line up, and it was all
tweaked out just like Scott said....
If one were to reconstruct a trim tab (not that I want to..) how do you get
your rivets to sit flush if you were not to dimple the skin and hinge?
Any comments, Scott?
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: turning around in a canyon or valley |
Note - as you climb higher and the air thins out, your ground speed
increases for a given IAS. That means that you need more room to change
direction at 13,000' than you would at 1,000'. You cover more ground,
things happen faster, and you can't turn as sharp.
Practice your slow flight turns at altitude....
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
>
>>Find a gentle valley, fly in a ways and do some 360 degree turns, look at
>>the valley floor to estimate how much of the valley width you used.
>>Individual tree size on the hillside is one depth perception clue that
will
>>disappear above the treeline.
>
>Turn radius decreases with decreasing airspeed. Slow down so you can turn
>within the confines of the valley. Anyone contemplating this should
>practice turns during slow flight while avoiding an accelerated stall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
Rivers like the Missouri and Mississippi are hard to miss as well as Lake
Michigan!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com <JNice51355(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight from midwest to west coast
>
>In a message dated 9/25/98 12:42:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com writes:
>
><< how do you ever find your way around over all that flat ground
> without mountains for landmarks? >>
>I used to live in the Midwest. The answer is WATER TOWERS.
>Jim Nice
>RV6A
>WA State
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 fuselage skin overlap- long |
One reason to keep larger edge distances--more than 2D--is to allow for future
repairs or repair of a bad hole. If you set a 2D edge for 3/32 rivets and
later have a need to go to 1/8 you may be short on edge distance. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Coms Recieving Unwanted FM |
I am no expert on this subject but I had a similar problem with my Piper Warrior
II
which was caused by a short in the antenna wire. The wire touched the aluminum
body of
the plane causing the whole plane to act as an antenna. Got pretty good FM too.
Quick to
fix.
Joe Walker
Rebuilding Wreaked RV6
Houston, Texas
> >>active receiver of FM stations.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
On my first -6A the original main tires (McCreary Air Trac) were worn out at
about 110 hrs. This was due in large part, I'm sure, to the number of
take-offs and landings during my test period and thereafter by giving as
many rides as I could find riders. In the next 240 hours (which was at
least half cross-country time), I flipped the new ones (Condor, I think)
over once and they were still in good shape when I sold the plane. I tried
to keep my main tires at 30 lbs which required frequent airing up, whereas
the nose wheel was aired to 25 lbs and rarely needed attention. I
occasionallly encountered a little main gear shimmy on landing roll-out
(without any stiffeners and with metal fairings) when the mains were aired
to 30 lbs but never experienced any nose gear shimmy (I also didn't over
lube it and it didn't need any more adjustments after its initial break-in).
BTW, the original nose wheel tire was never replaced and hardly showed any
wear in the 350 hrs I flew it. I do believe that I initially put a lot more
air pressure in the tires because I clearly remember testing the nose gear
ruggedness early on in the test period. It bounced real good on first
impact, and so followed the mains, and so forth, before I caught it on the
second bounce. Never tried that again, even intentionally!
IMO, I wouldn't condemn or praise any particular brand or grade of tire
without comparing the number of take-offs and landings and any other
repetitive hard use things, like fast turns offs, etc. I also believe that
putting in higher air pressure to save tire wear isn't a very safety
conscious thing to do, regardless of their cost.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>Bob,
>
> Ditto on my tires, and I'm using the same ones. I have been rotating
>them and getting about 200 Hrs from a pair...
>
>Fred Stucklen
>N925RV RV-6A
>E. Windsor, Ct
>>
>>
>> GV,
>> My last set of tires were the Goodyear Flight Customs. Doing the
>> math,
>> they represented a better value than the kit supplied McCrearys. They
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
>> Now tell me, how do you ever find your way around over all that flat ground
>> without mountains for landmarks?
>
Three words:
G
P
S
________________________________________________________________________________
Hello-
My name is Christian Plyler. I am a future RV builder. I have an idea
regarding the liability issue arising from the sale of a home-built
aircraft. Unless someone finds fault with this idea, it is the method I
will use when I begin building.
Before begining any process of building, or indeed even buying
anything, the builder sets up a corporation in the state in which you
live. The builder invests in the corporation the required start-up
capital (coincidently, the amount needed to buy the first kit, tools,
etc.). The builder then works for the corporation as a minimum wage
unskilled laborer. The builder continues to invest in the corporation at
such times as the corporation needs to purchase additional materials,
tools, etc. When the airplane is finished, the builder buys it from the
corporation, which is named as the manufacturer, for 50,000 dollars or
something like that, which is in turn paid right back to the builder as
a break-even return on his investment. Then the builder wals away with a
bright shiney new airplane manufactured by, and bought from, a seperate
entitiy (the corporation). If a subsequent owner injures self or others
and wants to sue the manufacturer, just let them. The now defunct
corporation has no assets to be taken, and indeed need not even defend
itself.
Well, thats my idea. Any comentary is appreciated. I hope to be able to
purchase a tail kit for an RV-4 by this time next year. I will be
keeping tabs on this wonderful list.
________________________________________________________________________________
An old & experienced pilot once told me that the only way he'd fly across a
mountain range, and it is also his preference elswhere, is to fly "IFR" (I
Follow Roads).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
>
>GV, I have a similar question and you sound like you know this stuff. I
>have a Terra 720 that is broken and unreadable when I transmit. I
>receive fine, and the mic seems fine in that I can record on a
>patched-in recorder and the voice is clear. I took the radio to the
>shop and they said that other than the gain set a little high they could
>find no problem.
The Terra comm has an automatic mic gain control circuit that is supposed
to automatically adapt to differences in mic gain level so you can't set
the mic gain on that radio. My experience is that when people complain
that the radio is "broken up and unreadable," the problem is the mic being
overdriven by noise. Some mics are better at cancling cockpit noise than
others. For instance, the electret mics on my David Clark HD-10-40
headsets are very susceptible to noise while the electret mics on my
Softcomm headsets are much, much better. Supposedly the military amplified
dynamic mics are the best for noise resistance.
Oregon Aero has something they call a "mic muff" that reduces the noise
getting to the mic. I have one on my helmet mic and it seems to improve
the noise immunity.
>Is it possible that my intercom is
>overdriving/overmodulating the transmitter, could the solution be as
>simple as turning down the volume control on the intercom (or does that
>only effect the receive channel?).
That affects only the audio going to the headphones. It has no effect on
the transmit level.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Big guy, little planes |
Anthony,
I am 6'2", 200 lbs, long legs. I sat in the RV-8 with several feet of extra
space in every direction. I think you will have no problem at all.
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST installing the baffling
>
>I need to hear from any of you over 6
>feet tall who have sat in the -8. I am 6' 6" tall and about 250 lbs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
This idea is questionable because any court will probably "pierce the veil"
of the corporation inasmuch as it is a sham. Why not just look up your
state's limited liaility corporation statute - most likely about the same
in most states - that allows a one-man/woman "limited liability" (LLC)
organization. You can be the "contributor" for the tools/money/labor into
the LLC .Its assets - the plane - are all that any litigant could ever
recover if sued. You CAN register a home-built in the name of the LLC. When
sold, the money can be paid out pro-rata to those contributors - you alone
if that is how you set it up - and the LLC then disolved; it then ceases
to legally exist.
If you use a "regular" incorporation you MUST be formal; meetings,
officers, etc. If not, the whole thing may be recognized as a sham. The
LLC, on the other hand, is INTENDED to be simple, no required board
meetings, only one person needs to be officially "appointed" - that can be
you as the manager - and the likelyhook of you going wrong because you
didn't follow the niceities of the law a minimized.
RV-6A/Attorney-at-Law
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting |
when backriveting, I first center the rivet set on the rivet and then hold the
tip of the rivet set with my hand to keep it from moving around while rivetting.
Brian Eckstein
6A widebody, 747BS reserved
----------
>
>
>
> Sorry to bother everyone with such a simple question, but I can't seem to
> back-rivet. Before riveting my stiffners, I did some tests on some scrap
> and left over angle. I can't seem to get the gun straight. My shop heads
> always come out slanted. I tried to hold the gun as steady as I could. I
> have the 2x gun from Avery. I tried different air pressures. What
> should I be using?
>
> Any tips greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Joe
> RV-8 Tail
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: What kind of fiberglass? |
Another place to check is Raka Marine Discount Epoxy Resins and Fiberglass. They have a pump system too. When I checked into it, they were a lot cheaper than West. phone 561-362-8086 www.magg.net/~raka-inc/
Brian Eckstein
----------
>
>
>
> Von,
>
> I priced out the West System products at my local marine shop and
> they were twice the cost of the Aero-Poxy from Spruce. I paid about $48
> for a 1/2 gal from spruce (2 qt containers...)
>
> Fred Stucklen
> N925RV RV-6A
> E. Windsor, Ct
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: n41va(at)juno.com [SMTP:n41va(at)juno.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 25, 1998 1:46 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: What kind of fiberglass?
> >
> >
> > What is the e-mail address for West Marine? And how much epoxy would
> > you
> > recommend for the average RV?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Von Alexander
> > RV-8 N41VA
> > N41VA(at)juno.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M.Mckenna" <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net> |
Anderson Ed wrote:
>
>
> GV, I have a similar question and you sound like you know this stuff. I
> have a Terra 720 that is broken and unreadable when I transmit.
Ed,
Intercoms often have mic gain adjustment pots inside which
will control your modulation level to the transmitter.If this
adjustment is set too low you would sound weak and garbled on
other receivers. Your problem sounds like a poor antenna
installation or bad antenna component.
Good luck,
Mike Mckenna (mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net)
RV8 (wings)
Lawrenceville, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
One thing that a lot of people over look when using a mic is that it
needs to be as close to your mouth as possible. It actually well
work better if it is brushing your lips as you speak.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv@*getlost*ix.netcom.com remove *getlost*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
Yes! Finally a solution! I don't know how well this will sit with the
attorneys, but you might get away with it...
My 2 cents:
My only concern is, that seems like alot of trouble to go through to plan on
an accident. Solution- Don't be a foolish builder or pilot, and you should
drastically reduce your chance of ever needing to form your corporation.
Take the $600 you would spend on forming a corporation, and spend it on some
more accident prevention, such as dual flight time, some additional tools
that will enable you to do the job right, etc...
Paul Besing
>
>Hello-
> My name is Christian Plyler. I am a future RV builder. I have an
idea
>regarding the liability issue arising from the sale of a home-built
>aircraft. Unless someone finds fault with this idea, it is the method I
>will use when I begin building.
> Before begining any process of building, or indeed even buying
>anything, the builder sets up a corporation in the state in which you
>live. The builder invests in the corporation the required start-up
>capital (coincidently, the amount needed to buy the first kit, tools,
>etc.). The builder then works for the corporation as a minimum wage
>unskilled laborer. The builder continues to invest in the corporation at
>such times as the corporation needs to purchase additional materials,
>tools, etc. When the airplane is finished, the builder buys it from the
>corporation, which is named as the manufacturer, for 50,000 dollars or
>something like that, which is in turn paid right back to the builder as
>a break-even return on his investment. Then the builder wals away with a
>bright shiney new airplane manufactured by, and bought from, a seperate
>entitiy (the corporation). If a subsequent owner injures self or others
>and wants to sue the manufacturer, just let them. The now defunct
>corporation has no assets to be taken, and indeed need not even defend
>itself.
> Well, thats my idea. Any comentary is appreciated. I hope to be able
to
>purchase a tail kit for an RV-4 by this time next year. I will be
>keeping tabs on this wonderful list.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
| Subject: | Removing Resin from Skin |
OK, I carefully masked off the 6A skin prior to doing fibreglas work on
the canopy. However... several runs got through. The runs on the
plastic skin covering were no problem. Resin on bare aluminum is
another story. MEK didn't work. Razor scratched skin. Hammer and
chisel seems like overkill and, darn it, I'm all out of dynamite.
Would appreciate suggestions on how to remove this nasty, hardened
stuff.
Jim New Mexico RV6A @#!*&%!! canopy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Moore <jjm6898(at)unix.tamu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> Making go/no-go decisions ahead of time, i.e. before you start your takeoff
> roll, would go a long way toward ensuring that your friends and
> acquaintences don't have to go through this.
>
>
On a similar note, how useful would a lateral accelerometer inside the
cockpit be to give the pilot an indication that the engine was making
normal power? It wouldn't address the sudden engine failure problem, but
would perhaps help in some cases. Comments?
jjmoore(at)tamu.edu
-6A, planning
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Resin from Skin |
Jim, you might try heating it up with a heat gun or hair dryer (try the back
side of the metal too, if possible) and see if it will peel off.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>OK, I carefully masked off the 6A skin prior to doing fibreglas work on
>the canopy. However... several runs got through. The runs on the
>plastic skin covering were no problem. Resin on bare aluminum is
>another story. MEK didn't work. Razor scratched skin. Hammer and
>chisel seems like overkill and, darn it, I'm all out of dynamite.
>
>Would appreciate suggestions on how to remove this nasty, hardened
>stuff.
>
>
>Jim New Mexico RV6A @#!*&%!! canopy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bsgray(at)ntplx.net> |
John Fasching wrote:
>
> This idea is questionable because any court will probably "pierce the veil"
> of the corporation inasmuch as it is a sham. Why not just look up your
> state's limited liaility corporation statute - most likely about the same
> in most states - that allows a one-man/woman "limited liability" (LLC)
> organization. You can be the "contributor" for the tools/money/labor into
> the LLC .Its assets - the plane - are all that any litigant could ever
> recover if sued. You CAN register a home-built in the name of the LLC. When
> sold, the money can be paid out pro-rata to those contributors - you alone
> if that is how you set it up - and the LLC then disolved; it then ceases
> to legally exist.
Hi John,
I doubt if your suggestion would work either. Just because someone is working for
a corporation (LLC or Standard) does not relieve them of their individual
responsibility or liability for their own negligent acts. Normally, a corporation
carries insurance that indemnifies the employee for job related functions. And
if
that insurance umbrella is large enough, the employee will not be named in the
suit. If however the corporation has no assets, I'm sure any competent attorney
will go after anyone who bucked a rivet, regardless of their employment status.
In short, there is NO WAY to protect yourself from suits. Even getting the buyer
to sign a full waiver does not protect you from the buyers estate or any
subsequent buyers. So, if you can't protect yourself from suits, what can you do?
YOU CAN PROTECT YOUR ASSETS. I'm sure you've heard of "judgment proofing". From
what I understand, it's being used by quite a few lawyers and physicians. You
place all your assets (except the airplane) in a irrevocable trust or (if you live
in a non community property state) your wife's name and let the vultures sue.
After the default judgment is rendered a quick trip to federal bankruptcy court
makes it all vanish with negligible harm to the builder.
Bruce (Glasair III builder, still sandin')
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
$600? No, in Colorado only a one-time $50.00 fee, one piece of paper, one
copy of that, a 32-cent stamp mailing it to the Sect'y of State and you are
an LCC when they return your copy with their stamp. It's that simple!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: turning around in a canyon or valley |
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> Turn radius decreases with decreasing airspeed. Slow down so you can turn
> within the confines of the valley. Anyone contemplating this should
> practice turns during slow flight while avoiding an accelerated stall.
Minimum radius turns are max-G at Va (manuvering speed). Slowing down
more than this increases the turn radius because of the avaliable G is
limited by accelerated stalls. Faster means you can only apply max-G
because of structual limitations, but the speed is higher.
(Read too many air combat books)
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Deburring second wing skeleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Big guy, little planes |
Am 6'4" and 270 lbs. Tried on the 8 wearing my boots (make me 6'6").
Had no problem with head or shoulder room, but my knees did hit the panel.
Don't know what the tall pilot option entails. Will difinatly be modifing
the fuse (probably moving the bottom of the panel up, planing VFR only,
don't need too much panel space). On the other hand, I regularly fly a
152, is small, but have trouble getting max aeleron deflection (yoke
hits my knee)
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com)
President and Founder Friends of P-Chan
RV-8 80091 Deburring 2nd wing skeleton.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
Sorry, Bruce, case law doesn't agree with your analysis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: What kind of fiberglass? |
>>
>>
>> Von,
>>
>> I priced out the West System products at my local marine shop and
>> they were twice the cost of the Aero-Poxy from Spruce. I paid about $48
>> for a 1/2 gal from spruce (2 qt containers...)
>>
There are big differences in Resins, more than just the price. The glue
they put the "Grand 51" aka the plastic mustang, was $600 per gallon. It
met a list of Military specs as long as your arm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line- K.I.S.S. |
> If your directing your breather tube on the exhaust pipe, inside of the
> confines of the cowl, then you don't need a whistle hole.
My breather tube is positioned to drip on the exhaust, but it doesn't
actually touch the exhaust pipe. Freezing condensate seems unlikely
in this setup, but I can't rule it out 100%. Therefore I looked at the
cost/benefit tradeoff:
-What's it cost me to drill a few holes in my crankcase vent line?
About 5 minutes time.
-What's the disadvantage? None that I know of.
-What's the possible advantage? If it prevents the (probably unlikely)
blocked breather line it will also prevent the risk of blowing all my oil
out the nose seal.
It seems to me it's worth the time, and Lycoming strongly recommends
it in the Lycoming Flyer.
Tim "Scott is probably right, but..." Lewis
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Resin from Skin |
I'd try an ice cube first. If it didn't pop off with a fingernail or maybe
a plastic scraper like for a windshield. If that didn't work, you might be
able to use a heat gun to soften and wipe off.
-----Original Message-----
From: James K. Hurd <hurd(at)riolink.com>
Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 7:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: Removing Resin from Skin
>
>OK, I carefully masked off the 6A skin prior to doing fibreglas work on
>the canopy. However... several runs got through. The runs on the
>plastic skin covering were no problem. Resin on bare aluminum is
>another story. MEK didn't work. Razor scratched skin. Hammer and
>chisel seems like overkill and, darn it, I'm all out of dynamite.
>
>Would appreciate suggestions on how to remove this nasty, hardened
>stuff.
>
>
>Jim New Mexico RV6A @#!*&%!! canopy!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Christian,
If I were that concerned about liability, here's what I think I would do.
First, I'd build the airplane to the very best of my ability (as I'm sure
every builder does). Second, I'd spend years and years flying and enjoying
my wonderful creation. Last, when the sad day finally comes when I can't
fly my airplane (they won't let me out of the home anymore), I'd piece out
all the expensive stuff, engine, avionics, ect., and donate the cheap part
(airframe) to my local airport as a wind +ACI-T+ACI-. Might even get a tax
deduction. For now, build, fly, have fun,don't worry, be happy.
Joe Rex
RV-4 Installing aforementioned expensive stuff
-----Original Message-----
From: xtn+AEA-ibm.net +ADw-xtn+AEA-ibm.net+AD4-
Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 4:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: liability
+AD4-
+AD4-The builder then works for the corporation as a minimum wage
+AD4-unskilled laborer. The builder continues to invest in the corporation at
+AD4-such times as the corporation needs to purchase additional materials,
+AD4-tools, etc. When the airplane is finished, the builder buys it from the
+AD4-corporation, which is named as the manufacturer, for 50,000 dollars or
+AD4-something like that, which is in turn paid right back to the builder as
+AD4-a break-even return on his investment. Then the builder wals away with a
+AD4-bright shiney new airplane manufactured by, and bought from, a seperate
+AD4-entitiy (the corporation). If a subsequent owner injures self or others
+AD4-and wants to sue the manufacturer, just let them. The now defunct
+AD4-corporation has no assets to be taken, and indeed need not even defend
+AD4-itself.
+AD4- Well, thats my idea. Any comentary is appreciated. I hope to be able to
+AD4-purchase a tail kit for an RV-4 by this time next year. I will be
+AD4-keeping tabs on this wonderful list.
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
--
+AD4- +AHw- Visit the Matronics +ACY- RV-List Web Sites at http://www.matronics.com
+AHw-
+AHw-
+ACI-rv-list-request+AEA-matronics.com+ACI- +AHw-
+AD4- +AHw- +ACY- put the word +ACIAWw-un+AF0-subscribe+ACI- in the +ACo-body+ACo-.
No other text or
subject. +AHw-
+AHw-
+AHw-
+AD4-
--
+AD4-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Gummo <tgummo(at)csci.csusb.edu> |
| Subject: | mountain flying (fwd) |
Back in the 70's, a FAC (Forward Air Control) squadron lost two O-2
(C-337 suck - blew) aircraft in five days. The first O-2 started up a
valley whos elevation climbed faster than the climb rate of the
overloaded plane did.
They "landed straight ahead" but the wing spar broke and hit both pilots
in the head killing them (Hopefully, an "controlled crash" of an RV
would be much more survivable). The second was lost looking for the
first. We knew what mountain they were flying over but not where?
Anyway, they went to far up a valley and stalled trying to turn around.
SCORE Mountain flying 4. USAF Pilots 0.
Here were four highly trained USAF fighter pilots who had NO mountain
flying training. They had all come from supersonic jet fighter planes
and had over five hundred hours of flight time (min to be selected for
the FAC program). Up to this time, we would just select Afterburner and
climb away.
Your natural instinct is to fly in the center of the valley keeping the
ground as far away as possible. It fact, you should fly as near to the
edge of the valley as you can stand. This gives you DOUBLE the room to
turn around compared to flying up the center.
Flying OVER mountains is not overly dangerous just not as many places to
make a forced landing. Flying in the mountains is very dangerous and
requires special training. Anyone, who likes to fly up into valley
should make sure they have the training required.
ONE MORE TIME, GET MOUNTAIN FLYING TRAINING.
As for slowing down to decrease your turn radius, if you are below your
manuvering speed your turn radius will be about the same as long as you
max perform the turn. Another reason for AOA! As you increase above
manuvering speed, your turn radius will start to increase by a square
function.
Tom Gummo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
How does a corporation build an airplane for educational purposes only, the
fundamentals of allowing the +ACI-X+ACI--homebuilt airplane to be built in the
first
place?
Keep Tryin'
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
+AD4-On a similar note, how useful would a lateral accelerometer inside the
+AD4-cockpit be to give the pilot an indication that the engine was making
+AD4-normal power? It wouldn't address the sudden engine failure problem, but
+AD4-would perhaps help in some cases. Comments?
+AD4-
Lateral accelerometer? This would only tell you if you were side-slipping.
A longitudinal accelerometer would be better, but unless you plan on
spending more than the price of a new engine, you can forget about reading
it that accurately. Fixed pitch props have RPM, and constant-speeds have
manifold pressure+ADs- both of which are much easier to read than an
accelerometer. Take time to know YOUR airplane and its characteristics.
No flame intended,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>
>On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>> Making go/no-go decisions ahead of time, i.e. before you start your takeoff
>> roll, would go a long way toward ensuring that your friends and
>> acquaintences don't have to go through this.
>>
>>
>On a similar note, how useful would a lateral accelerometer inside the
>cockpit be to give the pilot an indication that the engine was making
>normal power? It wouldn't address the sudden engine failure problem, but
>would perhaps help in some cases. Comments?
>
> jjmoore(at)tamu.edu
>-6A, planning
>
The Mirage 2000 fighter uses this concept very effectively. The
longitudinal (i.e. fore and aft) acceleration is displayed in the head up
display during take off and landing. The pilot looks up the predicted
acceleration in the flight manual, based on the gross weight, altitude and
temperature. Then, he checks the acceleration at a specific speed during
the take-off, and does an abort if he doesn't see the right number.
The problem is that the acceleration varies throughout the take-off roll,
so the pilot need to check the number at the same speed every time. He
also needs to figure out the corrections are for gross weight, altitude and
temperature changes.
If the aircraft has a fixed pitch propellor, I think a simpler approach is
to check the rpm at a specific speed during the take-off roll. If the rpm
is correct, the engine is putting out the correct power. This won't work
with a constant speed prop, because the prop governor will vary the pitch
to get the proper rpm even if the power is down, although a significant
power loss would put the prop on the low pitch stop and cause the rpm to be
too low.
Happy building,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca stuck in Wichita instead of home working
Transport Canada on the RV :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Big guy, little planes |
>From the cowboy's book of life:
"A smart ass just don't fit in a saddle."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< GV, I have a similar question and you sound like you know this stuff. I
have a Terra 720 that is broken and unreadable when I transmit. I
receive fine, and the mic seems fine in that I can record on a
patched-in recorder and the voice is clear. I took the radio to the
shop and they said that other than the gain set a little high they could
find no problem. Is it possible that my intercom is
overdriving/overmodulating the transmitter,>>
It's possible. Normally an intercom should not amplify the existing mic
signal level. It may pass it thru a unity gain stage. Different mics have
different output signal strength so adjusting your radio to the mic should be
fairly simple. You just need someone with another radio to receive your
transmissions. Adjust the mic gain on the radio and see if you can improve
clarity while still sufficiently modulating the carrier.
<< could the solution be as
simple as turning down the volume control on the intercom (or does that
only effect the receive channel?)>>
Like I said, normally the existing mic level gets passed thru to the radio
unamplified by the intercom. Try turning off power to the intercom and see if
the effect changes (many intercoms revert to a pass-thru mode upon power-fail
for safety). If there is a big change in the mic level to the radio then
there could be something wrong with your intercom (or maybe it needs an
internal adjustment). Properly operating, the intercom controls do not affect
what is passed thru to the radio, they only affect pilot to passenger
conversations (threshold level for vox key and the mic gain passed on to the
headset output summing stage.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: turning around in a canyon or valley |
<< That means that you need more room to change
direction at 13,000' than you would at 1,000'. You cover more ground,
things happen faster, and you can't turn as sharp.
Practice your slow flight turns at altitude. >>
Why not try a hammerhead?
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Paul,
The problem with your solution is that, even if you build a perfect plane, some
bozo who bought the plane from the kind gentleman you sold it to, can fly it into
the ground. His family then sues you cause that's what happens. My proposed
solution is to die with the plane. Not on purpose of course, just keep it around
as a casket when I'm through flying it. That's what the Vikings did.
There is no corporate veil that cannot be pierced by a jury.
Joe Walker
Rebuilding Wreaked RV6
Houston, Texas
Besing, Paul wrote:
>
> Don't be a foolish builder or pilot, and you should
> drastically reduce your chance of ever needing to form your corporation.
> Take the $600 you would spend on forming a corporation, and spend it on some
> more accident prevention, such as dual flight time, some additional tools
> that will enable you to do the job right, etc...
>
> Paul Besing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Big guy, little planes |
If this Guy also wore an orange safety vest, it coulda been me
I'm 6'6, 230lbs and sat in the -8A with the cushion removed and yep, I
had to duck too to close the canope.
My wife told me I had to sit in it before I could invest in it.
( I cheated and ordered before oshkosh ;-) )
I can testify, I fit, BUT I will probably modify the bottom of the
instrument panel or get the Tall Man's Option.
Head room, shoulder room, etc is NO problem.
Gert
DiMeo, Robert wrote:
>
>
> Anthony,
>
> I was at the Van's tent at Oshkosh this year when a really big guy got in
> the 8A. If I remember right he was also 6'6" or more. They took out one of
> the cushions from the seat (there are two needed for guys like me (5'7") to
> get good ground visibility). He had to bend down quite a bit to get the
> canopy to slide forward but he still had a couple of inches head room when
> it was closed.
> I don't know if the seat is built on the floor (not that far yet) or there
> are posts that can be shortened.
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
> RV8 #423
>
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Removing Resin from Skin |
"Leslie B. Williams"
Watch out. You could be overaging the metal and reducing its strength.
Aircraft grade alloys age harden, increased heat from a heat gun could
overage the metal making it brittle. If it is in a nonstructural
location this may not be a problem but you should check.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing Resin from Skin
Date: 25-09-98 16:31
Jim, you might try heating it up with a heat gun or hair dryer (try the back
side of the metal too, if possible) and see if it will peel off.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>OK, I carefully masked off the 6A skin prior to doing fibreglas work on
>the canopy. However... several runs got through. The runs on the
>plastic skin covering were no problem. Resin on bare aluminum is
>another story. MEK didn't work. Razor scratched skin. Hammer and
>chisel seems like overkill and, darn it, I'm all out of dynamite.
>
>Would appreciate suggestions on how to remove this nasty, hardened
>stuff.
>
>
>Jim New Mexico RV6A @#!*&%!! canopy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
A strain gauge array on the engine mount would be more sensitive (and give a
thrust figure). It is possible to buy self adhesive or glue on elements quite
cheaply and a few dollars worth of electronics would give you a solution.
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> Making go/no-go decisions ahead of time, i.e. before you start your takeoff
> roll, would go a long way toward ensuring that your friends and
> acquaintences don't have to go through this.
>
>
On a similar note, how useful would a lateral accelerometer inside the
cockpit be to give the pilot an indication that the engine was making
normal power? It wouldn't address the sudden engine failure problem, but
would perhaps help in some cases. Comments?
jjmoore(at)tamu.edu
-6A, planning
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Resin from Skin |
<< Would appreciate suggestions on how to remove this nasty, hardened
stuff. >>
Try freeze spray, normally used for electronics testing. The coefficients of
thermal expansion of unreinforced epoxy resin (>150 ppm/degC) and aluminum
(around 20 ppm/degC) are so different that the bond might be persuaded to
easily shear. Careful though, some of the new low ODC cold sprays can attack
paint. Test first.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Harrellace(at)aol.com |
There is and A&P in my aera,that will build any part of the RV
if there is some one that would need to be in the air quicker.Just
give him a call. 502-745-0081
ken RV-7470U B.W.G.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Hinges |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>If one were to reconstruct a trim tab (not that I want to..) how do
>you get
>your rivets to sit flush if you were not to dimple the skin and hinge?
>
>Any comments, Scott?
>
>
>Paul Besing
>
Actually you do dimple the skin, then you machine countersink the spar
(top flange only), which then gives you a flat surface on the bottom side
of the spar flange for the hinge strip to lay flush on. As a result the
only thing done to the hinge is drill holes in it which prevents any
distortion and gives you the most material available for the rivets to
hold on to.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Ronald Blum wrote:
> A longitudinal accelerometer would be better, but unless you plan on
> spending more than the price of a new engine, you can forget about > > > reading
it that accurately.
Really? The Motorolla ADXL05 +-1 - 5 G chip is about $35. Add maybe $50
for additional display electronics (e.g. Digikey RCL010-ND panel mount
Miniature Display Module D.C. Voltmeter) and you have a +- 1G with .005G
resolution accelerometer. Heck, add an ADXL50 and a switch and you can
use the same display for a +-10G (vertical) accelerometer. All for about
$150.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Corporations are not eligble to construct amateur built aircraft under the 51%
rule--only individuals or groups thereoff for the purpose of education
--entertainment etc.JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Open Cockpit |
Ok, I trimmed and cut and trimmed and cut the canopy on my slider until
it fit just great. Then I started drilling to the canopy frame and
decided that maybe I didn't want to shim the canopy and it would be
easier to bend the canopy frame to fit the canopy with no shims. The
windscreen is drilled and in perfect position and after seeing a couple
of RV's with no shims I thought "Hey if they can do it, so can I"
This is the first time in the total construction time that I have ever
considered writing "TRASH" on the side of the fuselage and setting it
out front for the garbage men to haul away.
Maybe when I "Cool Off" in the morning I will see things in a different
light. I can't believe that I had the frame fitting pretty good and
needing only a couple of shims and that I have muffed it up so bad with
my "NO SHIM IDEA".
Live and learn
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 222993 (about to become the only open cockpit RV)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
Can't figure out what you are trying to protect yourself from?
Guess I grew up where people take responsibilty of their actions.
Gordon
xtn(at)ibm.net wrote:
>
> Hello-
> My name is Christian Plyler. I am a future RV builder. I have an idea
> regarding the liability issue arising from the sale of a home-built
> aircraft. Unless someone finds fault with this idea, it is the method I
> will use when I begin building.
> Before begining any process of building, or indeed even buying
> anything, the builder sets up a corporation in the state in which you
> live. The builder invests in the corporation the required start-up
> capital (coincidently, the amount needed to buy the first kit, tools,
> etc.). The builder then works for the corporation as a minimum wage
> unskilled laborer. The builder continues to invest in the corporation at
> such times as the corporation needs to purchase additional materials,
> tools, etc. When the airplane is finished, the builder buys it from the
> corporation, which is named as the manufacturer, for 50,000 dollars or
> something like that, which is in turn paid right back to the builder as
> a break-even return on his investment. Then the builder wals away with a
> bright shiney new airplane manufactured by, and bought from, a seperate
> entitiy (the corporation). If a subsequent owner injures self or others
> and wants to sue the manufacturer, just let them. The now defunct
> corporation has no assets to be taken, and indeed need not even defend
> itself.
> Well, thats my idea. Any comentary is appreciated. I hope to be able
to
> purchase a tail kit for an RV-4 by this time next year. I will be
> keeping tabs on this wonderful list.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>On my first -6A the original main tires (McCreary Air Trac) were worn
>out at
>about 110 hrs. This was due in large part, I'm sure, to the number of
>take-offs and landings during my test period and thereafter by giving
>as
>many rides as I could find riders. In the next 240 hours (which was
>at
>least half cross-country time), I flipped the new ones (Condor, I
>think)
>over once and they were still in good shape when I sold the plane.
I agree Les, and I have posted on this before when builders have
mentioned the "cheap" tires that come with the kits.
I don't know of a single RV builder that didn't get twice the life out of
their second set of tire regardless of what kind they used the second
time.
Your initial flying will have a much higher % of takeoffs and landings.
Also a high % of new RV flyers are not accustomed to RV's or have
experience in higher performance airplanes.
The first 100 hours or so will entail landings that are probably at much
higher speeds than optimum (extra tire wear), maybe not touching down as
straight as would be ideal (more tire wear), heavier use of brakes than
ideal (more tire wear), etc, etc...
The first 100 hrs put on the airplane are likely to be the roughest the
airplane ever see's. More rough from some pilots than other's.
Just plan on wearing out the first set quicker than you would like, and
don't sweat it. The second set will last much longer, but go ahead, it's
ok for you to think that is because you bought a "good" set of tires for
the second round. :-)
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Still, try to read an accelerometer as you are rolling down the runway, and
it is changing continually (as mentioned by another post). The thrust out
of a jet engine (similar to a prop at low levels - ie thrust is about 70+ACU-
fan and 30+ACU- core) decays from 6000+ACM- static to about 5300+ACM- at 120 knots
(roughly 10+ACU-). Drag is also changing rapidly. I'll stay with RPM on fixed
pitch and manifold pressure on constant speed with a whopping cost of +ACQ-0.00
(should be in the panel already).
Some also mentioned strains off the engine mount. Most engine mounts have
an +ACI-indeterminate+ACI- structure, and therefore must be calibrated due to a
known load and direction (very tough with an engine that is vibrating so
much).
The first one to have a good way to measure in flight thrust will be a rich
man. All the manufacturers will jump on it.
Flight Test for a Living,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
ask an attorney,
any defunct corporation, stills has some liabilities, a good attorny can get
around anything ( smoke screen i think the term is used )and still sue your
britches off.
from experience !!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
"Leslie B. Williams"
| Subject: | Re: Removing Resin from Skin |
Last time I looked at my aircraft handbook, to temper or age aluminum for
strength temperature were about 900 degrees for 8 hours. Heat guns have
they have temps up that high. Aluminum transfers heat so quickly, it would
be difficult to get it to even 200 degrees using a heat gun. This
temperature, 150 to 200, is where epoxy softens and will reharden to a high
strength level. The exhaust gases from your engine will heat the bottom of
your fuselage higher.
-----Original Message-----
From: Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com <Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com>
Date: Saturday, September 26, 1998 12:19 AM
Subject: Re[2]: RV-List: Removing Resin from Skin
>
> Watch out. You could be overaging the metal and reducing its strength.
> Aircraft grade alloys age harden, increased heat from a heat gun could
> overage the metal making it brittle. If it is in a nonstructural
> location this may not be a problem but you should check.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing Resin from Skin
>Author: "Leslie B. Williams" at fdinet
>Date: 25-09-98 16:31
>
>
>
>
>Jim, you might try heating it up with a heat gun or hair dryer (try the
back
>side of the metal too, if possible) and see if it will peel off.
>
>Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>>
>>OK, I carefully masked off the 6A skin prior to doing fibreglas work on
>>the canopy. However... several runs got through. The runs on the
>>plastic skin covering were no problem. Resin on bare aluminum is
>>another story. MEK didn't work. Razor scratched skin. Hammer and
>>chisel seems like overkill and, darn it, I'm all out of dynamite.
>>
>>Would appreciate suggestions on how to remove this nasty, hardened
>>stuff.
>>
>>
>>Jim New Mexico RV6A @#!*&%!! canopy!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>
>Still, try to read an accelerometer as you are rolling down the runway, and
>it is changing continually (as mentioned by another post). The thrust out
>of a jet engine (similar to a prop at low levels - ie thrust is about 70+ACU-
>fan and 30+ACU- core) decays from 6000+ACM- static to about 5300+ACM- at
120 knots
>(roughly 10+ACU-). Drag is also changing rapidly. I'll stay with RPM on
fixed
>pitch and manifold pressure on constant speed with a whopping cost of
+ACQ-0.00
>(should be in the panel already).
>
Seeing the expected manifold pressure on an engine with a constant speed
prop is a good check of power on a healthy engine (also assuming that the
rpm is correct, and that the mixture is correctly set).
But, manifold pressure is not a good check of power on a sick engine. If
one or more cylinders is sick (no ignition, or hole blown in the piston, or
stuck exhaust valve, etc) the power will be low. Also, if the internal
friction of the engine has increased due to some problem, the manifold
pressure can be correct, but the power output will be low.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca stuck in Wichita instead of home working
Transport Canada on the RV :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: turning around in a canyon or valley |
Don't forget the split 'S'...if you have a little altitude,nose up to min.
airspeed,half roll and half loop and out you go!!! Not for unskilled in
aerobatics and faint of heart but will get you out of a pretty narrow
canyon...JLB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net> |
| Subject: | Re: What kind of fiberglass? |
Besing, Paul wrote:
> I need to do some fiberglass work and was wondering what kind of fiberglass,
> epoxy, etc that I will need during my project. Any suggestions on brand,
> type, and place to buy this stuff?
Paul, There is a shopping list I used for my -6A included in my tilt
canopy notes, section H. The notes are at
About the only thing I would change is to get a dozen or more 1" brushes
and toss them after each use...it's not worth the time and solvent to
clean them!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
<< Well, thats my idea. Any comentary is appreciated. I hope to be able to
purchase a tail kit for an RV-4 by this time next year. I will be
keeping tabs on this wonderful list. >>
I'd spend less time thinking up scemes and more time building. Really, if
homebuilding an aircraft comes to this it's just not worth building the plane.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
(we were always at max gross wieght it seemed), I made mental note of
that position on the runway.
The accelerate/stopping distance for various might be a worthy thing
to know in these little critters of ours.
Have a good one!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 wing fairings
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Removing Resin from Skin |
James:
My heat gun must be much stronger than Cy's because I can exceed 150 F on a large
area of skin (too hot to comfortably touch) in seconds. I would recommend heating
the metal while holding (rubbing) an ice cube to the resin to keep it brittle.
But
if you try this keep it short.
I have used freon to freeze shrink items before but it is bad for the ozone layer.
However, it does work well.
The last time I removed some unwanted resin I just rubbed it with an ice cube to
maximize the brittleness and tapped it with a small hammer. It broke off well
where it was thin but was pretty ragged next to the main work. This may not be
a
good idea on a visible aluminum skin but it is what I would do..Of course my skin
has more than it's share of havoc.
Joe Walker
Rebuilding RV6 (upon which havoc hath been wreaked)
Houston, Texas
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: turning around in a canyon or valley |
Brian Huffaker is correct. We worked through a CAP "mountain search and
rescue" scenario in Cadet Aerospace Education for a Cessna 182Q (max
gross for the example) at 6000' MSL: Min radius with no flaps was at
109 knots CAS Va pulling 3.8 g limit (122.1 ktas).
We then reworked for 20 degrees flaps with a g limit of 2.0 g and got
only a 20 foot reduction in radius - min radius was at 70 knots CAS
(78.4 TAS). At 75 knots radius was same as at 109 knots CAS with no
flaps.
Given a choice, I'd maneuver at the higher airspeed without flaps
because of the extra energy for climbing "as needed". (Someone else
mentioned a chandelle).
Incidentally, the radius increased fairly rapidly as speed increased
above 109 CAS and increased less rapidly as speed decreased from 109.
For example the radius at 120 knots CAS, was about the same as at 75
knots CAS with no flaps.
David Carter, RV-6, left elevator, Nederland, Texas
- - - - - - - - - - - -
> Minimum radius turns are max-G at Va (manuvering speed). Slowing down more
than >this increases the turn radius because of the avaliable G is limited
by accelerated stalls. >Faster means you can only apply max-G because of structual
limitations, but the speed is >higher. (Read too many air combat books)
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com) President and Founder Friends of
P-Chan
> RV-8 80091 Deburring second wing skeleton
- - - - - - - -
> > On Fri, 25 Sep 1998, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> >
> > Turn radius decreases with decreasing airspeed. Slow down so you can turn
> > within the confines of the valley. Anyone contemplating this should
> > practice turns during slow flight while avoiding an accelerated stall.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RClayp5888(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 540 lycoming engines is a rv6A or 8A |
I talked to a fellow named Steve at Lycom in Visalia, CA last week while I was
engine shopping. He told me that they had recently finished an engine which I
think was a 540 for a RV6 in the last few months. I think he said it was for a
fellow over on the coast. Give Steve a call at Lycom and he can tell you more
about it.
Bob Claypool RV6A, Fresno, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RClayp5888(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Navaid Ap-1servo installation |
I am installing a Navaid autopilot in my 6A. Does anyone have any suggestions
where they would install the servo? Bob Claypool RV6A finishing kit, Fresno,
CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
"krnet-l(at)teleport.com" ,
"rv-list(at)matronics.com"
Hi Airplane Friends.
Another small step in my quest to fly my own plane.
I joined EAA today.
Was going to join in June when we were their visiting but cash was
getting low and we were still 2400 miles away from home.
Gordon
out of place. Also, this puts it in the archive for future listers, and
non-listers.
I do plan to devote my web page to the rotary pursuit because this will allow
the exchange of pictures, and the inclusion of non-RV related conversion info.
I also have a CD recorder, so large amounts of data (photos) can be exchanged if
needed. I'll make an announcement when the page is up, but it might be as late
as November before I get it going. In the mean time, if anyone has any photos,
or links to Mazda info, lay them on me.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL (go away Georges)
RV-8 (Mazda Powered), sn-80587 (tanks)
Kolb SlingShot project for sale
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8 (Mazda Powered), sn-80587 (tanks)
Kolb SlingShot project for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 540 lycoming engines is a rv6A or 8A |
There is partnership in a RV-6 IO-540 in Owasso, OK. One of the fellows
names is Bart Dalton. The airplane was in Kitplane September of this year.
Have a good one!
Denny Harjehausen
RV-6 wing fairings
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John DeLong" <delongj(at)mail.cmedic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
OK, I'll Bite. What is "Pool"
-----Original Message-----
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight from midwest to west coast
>
>> I used to live in the Midwest. The answer is WATER TOWERS.
>> Jim Nice
>
>Jim:
>
>A great story used to go around Moose Jaw, the Canadian air force's
>main pilot training base.
>
>A student got lost on his first solo, low-level navigation flight.
>Southern Saskatchewan can be tough to navigate over at 500 AGL and
>250 ktas (normal student parameters). One road looks pretty much
>like another. Half the towns on the map don't exist anymore.
>Likewise for the railroad lines.
>
>So, following SOPs, he climbed up enough to get radio contact
>with the base, and spoke to the ops officer.
>
>"I'm lost."
>
>"Can you see any features you might be able to recognize on the
>map."
>
>"I see a town with a grain elevator. I'm going to try to identify
>it."
>
>A long pause followed, while the student buzzed the town and tried
>to read the name on the grain elevator. Then he replied.
>
>"I'm near POOL, but I can't find it on the map!"
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Surrey, BC
>-6 tail (still)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Brackets |
Lister's,
How have you countersunk the lowest holes on the W-414 & W-413 brackets. The
micostop countersink attachment I have been using is too large to be used in
this operation. I can only think of using a drill bit or a deburring bit.
Mark Steffensen
RV-8A Wings
Email: Steffco1(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hamilton McClymont <hammcc(at)istar.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
> OK, I'll Bite. What is "Pool"
Wheat pool grain elevator.
Hammy
--
Lamont Management Inc
Vancouver, BC 604-684-7702
http://home.istar.ca/~hammcc/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
Better than that is Ford Motor Company of the side the the tower, or Water
system #3.
These aren't listed on my sectionals.
-----Original Message-----
From: John DeLong <delongj(at)mail.cmedic.net>
Date: Saturday, September 26, 1998 3:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight from midwest to west coast
>
>OK, I'll Bite. What is "Pool"
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
>To: RV Listserver
>Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 5:13 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight from midwest to west coast
>
>
>>
>>> I used to live in the Midwest. The answer is WATER TOWERS.
>>> Jim Nice
>>
>>Jim:
>>
>>A great story used to go around Moose Jaw, the Canadian air force's
>>main pilot training base.
>>
>>A student got lost on his first solo, low-level navigation flight.
>>Southern Saskatchewan can be tough to navigate over at 500 AGL and
>>250 ktas (normal student parameters). One road looks pretty much
>>like another. Half the towns on the map don't exist anymore.
>>Likewise for the railroad lines.
>>
>>So, following SOPs, he climbed up enough to get radio contact
>>with the base, and spoke to the ops officer.
>>
>>"I'm lost."
>>
>>"Can you see any features you might be able to recognize on the
>>map."
>>
>>"I see a town with a grain elevator. I'm going to try to identify
>>it."
>>
>>A long pause followed, while the student buzzed the town and tried
>>to read the name on the grain elevator. Then he replied.
>>
>>"I'm near POOL, but I can't find it on the map!"
>>
>>Tedd McHenry
>>Surrey, BC
>>-6 tail (still)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Brackets |
>
>Lister's,
>How have you countersunk the lowest holes on the W-414 & W-413 brackets. The
>micostop countersink attachment I have been using is too large to be used in
>this operation. I can only think of using a drill bit or a deburring bit.
>
>Mark Steffensen
Mark,
I unscrewed the cage from the microstop countersink and just eyeballed it.
It took nerves of steel and a light touch, but both sides came out
perfectly. I was sweating during the process though :-).
I used one of Avery's single hole countersink cutter, which does a really
nice job (as long as you make sure that the hole hasn't filled up with
shavings). I am not sure how this would work with a standared countersink
cutter.
Good luck,
Take
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>
>
>Seeing the expected manifold pressure on an engine with a constant speed
>prop is a good check of power on a healthy engine (also assuming that the
>rpm is correct, and that the mixture is correctly set).
>
>But, manifold pressure is not a good check of power on a sick engine. If
>one or more cylinders is sick (no ignition, or hole blown in the piston, or
>stuck exhaust valve, etc) the power will be low. Also, if the internal
>friction of the engine has increased due to some problem, the manifold
>pressure can be correct, but the power output will be low.
>
What Ken is saying here is correct, but I am going to try to say it in a
different way. I read Ken's post twice before I realized what he was
saying.
Unless the engine is running normally manifold pressure is a lousy indicator
of engine power. In a twin engine airplane if you just turn the mags off on
one engine and wait a few seconds and then look at RPM's, Manifold Pressure,
Oil Pressure, and Fuel Flow, they will be the same on both engines.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Actually measurements on engine mounts are quite easy. You just put
strain gauges on every connection to the engine (which is isolated
from the structure for vibration reasons) and average the readings
using a simple analogue averaging circuit. A little filtering takes
out the remaining transients and you have a useable signal.
Calibration is also easy in that all you need to do is apply a known
force along the engine thrust line with a pulley and some weights.
Side loads can be calibrated by simulating same and then adjusting the
averaging so as to eliminate the deviation (a bit fiddly (and perhaps
unnecessary) but it can be done). If you don't like stick on strain
gauges , strain gauge bolts are available which replace the standard
engine bolts and are then cabled back. For this application you are
not interested in 0.01% accuracy (which is achieved by some weigh
bridges) so rough enough is good enough.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?...
Date: 26-09-98 06:02
Still, try to read an accelerometer as you are rolling down the runway, and
it is changing continually (as mentioned by another post). The thrust out
of a jet engine (similar to a prop at low levels - ie thrust is about 70+ACU-
fan and 30+ACU- core) decays from 6000+ACM- static to about 5300+ACM- at 120
knots
(roughly 10+ACU-). Drag is also changing rapidly. I'll stay with RPM on fixed
pitch and manifold pressure on constant speed with a whopping cost of +ACQ-0.00
(should be in the panel already).
Some also mentioned strains off the engine mount. Most engine mounts have
an +ACI-indeterminate+ACI- structure, and therefore must be calibrated due to a
known load and direction (very tough with an engine that is vibrating so
much).
The first one to have a good way to measure in flight thrust will be a rich
man. All the manufacturers will jump on it.
Flight Test for a Living,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Brackets |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>How have you countersunk the lowest holes on the W-414 & W-413
>brackets. The
>micostop countersink attachment I have been using is too large to be
>used in
>this operation. I can only think of using a drill bit or a deburring
>bit.
>
>Mark Steffensen
>RV-8A Wings
>Email: Steffco1(at)msn.com
>
Put your #30 counter sink cutter in your deburring tool and do it by
hand. These rivets wont show, so you can do a good enough job this way.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Removing Resin from Skin |
"Leslie B. Williams" ,
"Cy Galley"
I think the figure you have is the annealing temperature (910 to 930F)(490C to
500C) which is followed by a quench in cold water.
The alloy is generally aged at around 174C for alclad 2024, or room tem for non
clad.
(Care of my Standard Aviation Handbook)
Most heat guns get to 600C.
If the exhaust is heating your alloy to 900?F? you need a new exhaust.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[2]: RV-List: Removing Resin from Skin
Date: 26-09-98 07:35
Last time I looked at my aircraft handbook, to temper or age aluminum for
strength temperature were about 900 degrees for 8 hours. Heat guns have
they have temps up that high. Aluminum transfers heat so quickly, it would
be difficult to get it to even 200 degrees using a heat gun. This
temperature, 150 to 200, is where epoxy softens and will reharden to a high
strength level. The exhaust gases from your engine will heat the bottom of
your fuselage higher.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Steffensen" <steffco1(at)email.msn.com> |
Lister's
Thanks for the suggestions for countersinking the W-413 & W-414 brackets.
While on the subject of the rear wing spar is there anything that would
prevent me from cutting & fitting the flap brace at this point as, "I am
assembling the rear spars". It seems that it would be easier at this point
rather than later once the spar is in the jig "and working from beneath" as
per the manual. I won't rivet the brace until the proper sequence per the
manual.
Thanks again......
Mark Steffensen
RV8A Wing - Rear Spars
Email: Steffco1(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Accelerate GO and Accelerate Stop (balanced field for FAR 25 |
Spam)
+AD4- Most of you probably know that large aircraft have a go/no speed
+AD4-that was figured ,for each takeoff in case of loss of problem such as
engine
+AD4-out/ hot wheels/etc, from the performance charts of the airplane. I was
not
+AD4-always sure that this speed was right or good enough. To give myself a
+AD4-little insurance, I always figured the stop distance I would need for the
+AD4-load (we were always at max gross wieght it seemed), I made mental note of
+AD4-that position on the runway.
The V1 speeds always have a consevative factor in them (time to brake, time
for drag devices, idle thrust, time for reversers, and etc.) On that note,
though, V1 is the speed at which corrective action (to stop or go) must have
already been taken. In other words (as Boeing teaches), if +ACI-vee+ACI- as in
V1
has been spoken by the co-pilot, the crew is in a GO mode. Too many pilots
have died trying to stop beyond V1 speed because brake energy and distance
go up with the square of velocity.
+AD4- The accelerate/stopping distance for various might be a worthy
thing
+AD4-to know in these little critters of ours.
+AD4-
The stop distance is a GREAT thing to know. Keep in mind it changes with
velocity (ground speed in this case). The list has been talking about the
mountain valley thing for a while now (which happened to kill the local
Wichita State University (WSU) football team and program). Well, if your
airplane takes 1000 ft to stop at sea level, it may take 1500 ft or more to
stop on a mountain strip. A GREAT point to remember.
Fly Smart,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 540 lycoming engines is a rv6A or 8A |
Denny Harjehausen wrote:
>
>
> There is partnership in a RV-6 IO-540 in Owasso, OK. One of the fellows
> names is Bart Dalton. The airplane was in Kitplane September of this year.
>
> Have a good one!
> Denny Harjehausen
> RV-6 wing fairings
> Lebanon, OR
>
Denny,
I saw Dalton's RV-6+ today at the Tulsa, Ok fly-in at Bartlesville, Ok.
Actually, it is a 4-place -6. It has a stretched fuselage and about an
extra foot on each wing tip. The rear two seats face backwards and has
more room than you would imagine. I think it was built in less than a
year and it's still for sale.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | 540 lycoming engine is a rv6+? |
+AD4-There is partnership in a RV-6 IO-540 in Owasso, OK. One of the fellows
+AD4-names is Bart Dalton. The airplane was in Kitplane September of this year.
Isn't that the RV6+-, a 2+-2 RV-6? If so, I saw it today at the Bartlesville
Fly-In (better known as the 41st annual Tulsa Fly-In). Anyhow, great
looking airplane, but Van has nothing to do with it.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
"Leslie B. Williams"
| Subject: | Re: Removing Resin from Skin |
Very good. I also looked in my Standard Aircraft Handbook, the time is At
least an hour to 24 hours to temper aluminum. You misread or I mislead you,
The exhaust temps of 200 degrees on the belly is what I was claiming NOT
900.
What we are trying to do is get the metal warm enough to soften the epoxy
without harm to the metal. This temperature is less than boiling water. It
is of short duration so that changes to the metal will not happen because of
the low temperature and the short duration.
-----Original Message-----
From: Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com <Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com>
; Cy Galley
Date: Saturday, September 26, 1998 5:53 PM
Subject: Re[4]: RV-List: Removing Resin from Skin
>
>I think the figure you have is the annealing temperature (910 to 930F)(490C
to
>500C) which is followed by a quench in cold water.
>The alloy is generally aged at around 174C for alclad 2024, or room tem for
non
>clad.
>(Care of my Standard Aviation Handbook)
>Most heat guns get to 600C.
>If the exhaust is heating your alloy to 900?F? you need a new exhaust.
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: RV-List: Removing Resin from Skin
>Author: "Cy Galley" at fdinet
>Date: 26-09-98 07:35
>
>
>
>Last time I looked at my aircraft handbook, to temper or age aluminum for
>strength temperature were about 900 degrees for 8 hours. Heat guns have
>they have temps up that high. Aluminum transfers heat so quickly, it would
>be difficult to get it to even 200 degrees using a heat gun. This
>temperature, 150 to 200, is where epoxy softens and will reharden to a
high
>strength level. The exhaust gases from your engine will heat the bottom of
>your fuselage higher.
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy Shims (A TIP) |
Well it is Saturday and the garbage men said the fuselage was to large
to haul away so I drug it back into the shop and attacked the canopy
frame once again. I got it to fit again but will still need shims up to
1/8 inch in more than a few places. I also managed to get the rear of
the canopy a little lower this time and maybe the rear skirts will have
a chance of fitting.
Gary's tip of the day is:
I am using Stanley back up plates as shims. These are the little round
aluminum or steel washers that you would use with Pop rivets when
riveting soft materials such as leather. They are approximately .063" in
thickness and come in 1/8 and 3/16" diameter holes. I am using Krazy
Glue to to glue washers together for thicker shims.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993 (won't be an open cockpit after all)
Pine Junction, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Ap-1servo installation |
RClayp5888(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I am installing a Navaid autopilot in my 6A. Does anyone have any suggestions
> where they would install the servo? Bob Claypool RV6A finishing kit, Fresno,
> CA
You will probably get several ideas on mounting locations. I mounted the
servo in the wing; however, if you have already closed the wing, this
may be a frustrating option.
Other possibilites are:
1) Under the passenger seat. This option has been used many times.
2) On an outboard wing rib. This intriguing option allows you to install
in a completed wing by running a long pushrod from the wingtip to the
aileron bellcrank.
You can see some photos of my wing installation:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/wing_lg4.html
The Navaid guys can provide you with drawings for both the wing and seat
installations.
Good luck,
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/25/98 2:44:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xtn(at)ibm.net
writes:
<< If a subsequent owner injures self or others
and wants to sue the manufacturer, just let them. The now defunct
corporation has no assets to be taken, and indeed need not even defend
itself. >>
Please keep in mind that "lawyers" do not really concern themselves with who
is liable, but rather, who has the deepest pockets. Also keep in mind that to
my knowledge, thus far, no homebuilder has been successfully sued for
liability.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
P.S. Check the archives on this. There have been threads in the past.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flight from midwest to west coast |
In a message dated 9/26/98 11:59:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
delongj(at)mail.cmedic.net writes:
<< OK, I'll Bite. What is "Pool" >>
Must be some Canadian term, EH??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Freestanding Tail Jig - suggestions needed |
>
> YES! At last, someone asked, they really really asked (with apologies to
> Judy Garland *grin*)
I should *really* apologise to Judy Garland - I think I meant Sally
Fields?!? Must have been a long day and a late post....oh well, if anyone is
interested, photos of my freestanding jig are at
http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/workshop.htm
________________
Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995
Systems Manager Cell: +025-228-1244
Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751
442 Moray Place, Dunedin, New Zealand Email: chinch(at)arl.co.nz
RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Landing technique |
Today I visited with a gentleman and his wife at the Tulsa Fly-in. He had
built a beautiful chrome yellow RV-6 with a checkerboard stripe--I think he
was from Enid?--not important--I had asked him if he had any regrets about his
building conventional gear vs. the trike gear. It came up, if I understood
correctly, that he felt the elevator to take some getting used to in it's
sensitivity during the roundout and flare but no--he had no regrets. He was
obviously having a blast with his RV but I suggested that he try a technique I
had used with success in my overly sensitive Yankee. I would trim for final
approach speed and then, still carrying a little power into the initial
roundout at beginning of the flare, use the trim wheel to begin the
aforementioned roundout and initial flare essentially flaring with trim. Not
freezing the yoke but allowing it to come back to seek trim equilibrium--ie-
neutral "feel". As the airplane began to settle or sometimes after the first
chirp I would then bring the yoke gently back for a full stall condition
pulling the power off at the same time. Is this bad advice--does anyone find
this method applicable to taming the RV (trike or conventional)--not arguing
but asking for thoughts. I have done essentially the same thing with a RV-6A
and it works for me but maybe I should not offer unproven advice to folks who
obviuosly have their own techniques mastered. What you guys say--is this bad
advice?JR A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron Brackets |
> >How have you countersunk the lowest holes on the W-414 & W-413
> >brackets. The
> >micostop countersink attachment I have been using is too large to be
> >used in
> >this operation. I can only think of using a drill bit or a deburring
> >bit.
> *********************
> Put your #30 counter sink cutter in your deburring tool and do it by
> hand. These rivets wont show, so you can do a good enough job this way.
>
***********************
I have done similar by hand and the job is acceptable but found better control
by
putting the #30 cutter into the drill press and using the quill stop for a 'close'
depth gauge. You still need to be careful as to the depth you end up but at least
the counter sink is square with the work. Clamp the work down to reduce oblong
countersinking and chatter.
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Ap-1servo installation |
<< I am installing a Navaid autopilot in my 6A. Does anyone have any
suggestions
where they would install the servo? >>
I vote for the standard position under the pax seat per the info provided by
Navaid.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing technique |
JRWillJR(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Today I visited with a gentleman and his wife at the Tulsa Fly-in. He had
> built a beautiful chrome yellow RV-6 with a checkerboard stripe--I think he
> was from Enid?--
JR,
That was Bobby Oneal from Norman Ok. The -6 was his first homebuilt and
it definately is a show winner! Hey JR, I was talking to you and Bobby
about the sensitive elevator, but I didn't know it was JR from the
RV-list!! Small world.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moshe Lichtman <moshel(at)MICROSOFT.com> |
I have been looking for info on spins in RV-6A's. Doesn't look like this is
an "approved" exercise for RV's in general, but am wondering if anyone on
this list has experienced this or can point to information (specifically
recovery characteristics)
Thanks,
Moshe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Gummo <tgummo(at)csci.csusb.edu> |
| Subject: | Mountain Flying (fwd) |
Reference: Mountain Flying and Turning in Valleys
Lets re-visit the mathematics of how a plane turns.
First, the constants:
8000' MSL (in a mountain valley)
RV-4 stall speed 54 mph (indicated air speed)
Standard Atmosphere Ratio = 1.1279 (8000' MSL)
The laws of physics used to calculate the rate and radius of turn use
True Airspeed and are normally converted into feet per second.
Lets look at two methods for turning: Constant Altitude (Level Turn) or
90 degrees of bank. First, the level turn:
G's Radius Rate Required IAS
2 287 25 76
3 264 33 94
4 257 40 108
5 254 45 121
6 252 50 132 (Va maneuvering speed)
9 250 61 162 NO SAFETY FACTOR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6 379 41 162 Staying with 6 G limit.
Note as one RV-lister correctly stated, the radius turn decreases as you
you go up to maneuvering speed and greatly increases as you go pass.
It is also interesting to see that you only gain 2 feet if you go up to 9 G's.
Don't panic and over G as
IT REALLY DOESN'T HELP !!!!!
At just 30 mph above Va, there is a 150 percent increase in turn radius and
a 20 percent decrease in rate of turn.
How does a 90 degree bank turn effect the numbers?
G's Radius
2 248
3 248
4 248
5 248
6 248
9 248
6 373 (at 162 mph)
My point here, is this is the best you can do. However, gravity will cause
the plane to lose altitude while performing the turn. The numbers indicate a
600 foot lost at 2 G's and 160 foot lost at 6 G's. However, that is in a
vacuum and doesn't take into effect any other aerodynamic factors in the real
world. Don't use 90 degrees of bank unless altitude AGL is not a factor.
You only gain 4 feet. As a general rule, min turn is below Va and using the
maximum G available.
The key is to be able to maximum perform your aircraft. How many of you have
practiced turns listed on these tables? The USAF made it easy for me as we
had AOA. Therefore, I could be sure I pulled the proper amount of G's at
any airspeed. If money can be found, I will put an AOA system in my RV
(starting on the fuselage).
How would I fly up a mountain pass. First, I would not slow to Va just to be
able to take advantage of the min radius of turn. Once I realized that I
had made a mistake and required to turn with the min radius, I would climb
and turn at the same time. As the speed slows to Va, the climb could be
transitioned to level flight. Sounds like a chandelle.
And as I mentioned in my last post, I would fly up the side of the valley to
give the max amount of room to turn.
Don't listen to an old F-4G "Wild Weasel" Air to Air Instructor on how to fly
in the mountains, go and get real training.
Tom
Thomas L. Gummo
Major, USAF Retired, Society of Wild Weasels # 1573
http://web.csusb.edu/public/csci/tgummo/home.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Removing Resin from Skin |
Acetone is supposed to work well.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
Would appreciate suggestions on how to remove this
nasty, hardened
stuff.
Jim New Mexico
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Moshe,
Jim Cone wrote a fine report on spinning the RV-6A. He wrote it on this
list back in April, 1997 or so. It is available in the archives. You
should definitely read it before even thinking about spinning your
RV-6A. Jim flies for a living, so approached the maneuver with caution
but not fear. I don't fly for a living, in fact, while building I am
starting not to fly at all. After reading his account, I would approach
a spin in the RV-6A by getting my head examined.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
I have been looking for info on spins in RV-6A's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Visiting Cleveland |
Dear Listers
I will be visiting Cleveland Ohio from England on from 2nd Oct to 13th
Oct and would like to meet up with RV8 builders, Particularly anyone
working on fuselage or finishing.
Email me of list please.
RV8 #80274
Thanks
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
look in 16 years of the RV-Ator Van said "Don't Do It" at least that was what
I got out of the article
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Ap-1servo installation |
While visting Vans I talked with Jerry and He has a Nav-aide and the servo is
installed in the wing tip with a longer push rod. this is just for
information only you might want to call him for the details
Pat Patterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>
>I have been looking for info on spins in RV-6A's. Doesn't look like this is
>an "approved" exercise for RV's in general, but am wondering if anyone on
>this list has experienced this or can point to information (specifically
>recovery characteristics)
>
>Thanks,
>Moshe
Moshe,
I have included a message about RV-6 spins that I saw on
rec.aviation.homebuilt a while back. I will comment after the message.
=====================
Old R.A.H posting:
Yes, I have spun the RV-6. Let me first give you the reason for doing
so:
In Canada, most homebuilts are restricted to NO AEROBATICS unless
evaluated by a technical committee. 2 years ago this changed. The owner
can evaluate the aircraft for the type of aerobatics he wants to
perform, and sent a request and report to Transport Canada. The
evaluation includes spins and recoveries. That was the reason for me to
do spin evaluation.
I have a couple thousand hours experience in gliders and tail draggers,
I enjoy spinning gliders and Citabrias and other aircraft, and I have
the training and experience for spin recovery.
I flew the tests at 6'000' with parachute, half fuel and no luggage.
The first entry was to the left, with recovery initiated after half a
turn. Entry into the spin at idle power was snappy, with quick rate of
rotation and pronounced nose down attitude. Recovery was normal.
Second entry was the same but recovery initiated after 1 turn. Recovery
was normal at first, but then the aircraft flicked to the right like a
spin entry to the opposite. This was recovered from before it could
develop. Next entry was as before but to the right, for a complete turn
or slightly more. Normal recovery action failed to bring the aircraft
out of the spin. Various recovery techniques were initated but failed. I
finally let go of the controls and aircraft recovered by itself with
nose down attitude. During the last spin I had lost 2'500' altitude, was
down to 3,500'. At that stage I disccontinued with that evaluation.
=====================
End of R.A.H posting - start of comments by Kevin Horton
Some people have spun RV-6s. Some people have spun them and wished they
hadn't. You need to realize that every homebuilt aircraft is slightly
different. Just because "Joe" had no problem with spins in his RV-6 does
not mean that all RV-6s will have good spin characteristics.
I recommend that you very carefully consider whether you should do a full
spin evaluation or not. There may be merit to a limited evaluation,
looking at recoveries after one turn or less, but I would recommend that
you go no further than that.
You must be properly prepared before doing spin testing. Read the sections
on spins in Flight Testing Homebuilt Aircraft, by Vaughan Askue, available
from the RV-ation bookstore, <http://www2.rvbookstore.com/RVB/>
Read the section on spins in FAA Advisory Circular AC 90-89A, available on
the internet at <ftp://ftp.fedworld.gov/pub/faa-oai/90-89a.pdf>
You should be experienced in spins in a number of different aircraft types
with different spin characteristics. You should have done spins recently.
You should wear a parachute and helmet, and think about how you will get
out of the aircraft if you need to. You should be mentally prepared to
abandon the aircraft.
This is serious buisiness. I lost a very good friend doing low speed
flight testing a few years ago. They considered the test to be low risk,
and were not wearing parachutes. They ended up in a deep stall and three
people died.
I almost lost my life a few years ago after a partial engine failure in a
Canadair Tutor. I focused to much on sorting out the engine problem and
saving the aircraft, and did not pay enough attention to the altitude. I
ejected at a very low altitude, and was lucky to get away with it. Be
mentally prepared to abandon the aircraft.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Engineering Test Pilot
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Shims (A TIP) |
Gary
You were too fast in dragging it back into your garage, I got their just as the
door was going back down. Darn!
Gordon
Undecided Yet.
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> Well it is Saturday and the garbage men said the fuselage was to large
> to haul away so I drug it back into the shop and attacked the canopy
> frame once again. I got it to fit again but will still need shims up to
> 1/8 inch in more than a few places. I also managed to get the rear of
> the canopy a little lower this time and maybe the rear skirts will have
> a chance of fitting.
>
> Gary's tip of the day is:
>
> I am using Stanley back up plates as shims. These are the little round
> aluminum or steel washers that you would use with Pop rivets when
> riveting soft materials such as leather. They are approximately .063" in
> thickness and come in 1/8 and 3/16" diameter holes. I am using Krazy
> Glue to to glue washers together for thicker shims.
>
> Gary Zilik
> RV-6A s/n 22993 (won't be an open cockpit after all)
> Pine Junction, Colorado
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Backlit Panel Overlay Pictures |
Pictures of a sample of the backlit overlay that I am going to put on my
panel are up at the following address:
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er/panel/panel.htm
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Gyro Flight Instrument |
A few questions came up as I search to purchase a set of air horizon and
DG. All comments are appreciated.
1. Is it worth while to buy cageable ones for use in a -6? I intend to do
occasional loops and rolls. No eye-ball-popping maneuvers or anthing.
2. What up with the advertised "imported" AH and DG? They cost about 50%
less than Simatek (sp) or RC Allen. Are they inexpensive or plain old
cheap? Anyone has experience with these?
3. Reliablity of used or reconditioned ones?
Anh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Some people have spun RV-6s. Some people have spun them and wished
>they
>hadn't. You need to realize that every homebuilt aircraft is slightly
>different. Just because "Joe" had no problem with spins in his RV-6
>does
>not mean that all RV-6s will have good spin characteristics.
>
Kevin makes a very good point here that I think many RV builders need to
keep in mind more than they do.
I think this has happened because their are so many flying now that
everyone tends to assume they will all fly the same.
As one example - Van has vocalized his concerns about some of the
aftermarket gear leg fairings that are available with a larger cord
section than the standard kit fairings. On a conventional gear RV, you
are adding area to a vertical surface (like vertical stab.) that is
"forward" of the yaw axis, when you make these fairings larger.
This type of change could cause a decrease in yaw stability and/or change
the spin recovery characteristics.
I am not meaning to pick on the aftermarket fairing producers.
This was just an easy example to use with something that builders are
using as a modification with possibly no after though at all.
Any flight perimeter you do with your airplane should be flow as though
it has never been done before (even if it is an RV, which means it will
probably fly like an RV).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "chalkboy" <chalkboy(at)mweb.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Spins (2c from Africa) |
-----Original Message-----
From: Moshe Lichtman <moshel(at)MICROSOFT.com>
Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 8:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: Spins
>
2 cents worth from Africa. I had the absolute pleasure of test flying the
first RV-6 to fly in South Africa. Noel Drew, a first time builder built a
magnificent example of an honest, responsive little "real" aeroplane. I also
read Van's report about the nasty spin characteristics of the RV-6 and the
advice that this was not recommended as a recreational maneuver, and for
this reason I approached the spin testing with great trepidation..... lots
of height, parachute etc. If you intend to do aerobatics, you might as well
know what the aircraft will do when you end up in a spin.
My RV spin experience is limited to ZS-APF, an RV-6 with Lycoming O-320 and
Sensenich metal fixed pitch propeller. This report does not imply that YOUR
RV WILL BEHAVE THE SAME. I also do not presume to be any type of aviation
boffin and would advise all "weekend pilots" to listen to Van's
recommendations.
In South Africa, before a student pilot may be sent solo, he has to be able
to demonstrate his/her ability to recover from a spin, so spin training is
part of our pilot license training.
I found that ZS-APF, in the incipient stage of a spin from a level entry or
from a climbing turn entry, exhibited strong anti-spin tendencies with
severe buffeting and pitch oscillations, very similar to the Piper Tomahawk
(PA 38) but once the forces stabilized and the aircraft settled into the
spin that the nose attitude was low and the rotation rate very high. (= good
recovery) Recovery IN THIS SPECIFIC AIRCRAFT, was immediate on removal of
rudder input or on releasing back pressure on the elevator. Full rudder or
elevator forward of neutral, was not required. Remember, the RV's are all
clean , high performance aircraft and therefore the speed build up is fast
and a hamfisted pilot will be able to overstress the aircraft in the pull
out. YOUR aircraft might have totally different spin characteristics,
depending on many variables, however if you build your aircraft as per the
plans, you will find that you have one of the most honest aircraft, with the
most bang for the buck available in general aviation today. Approach any
testing with caution and recover incrementally, starting at the incipient
stage. I did not exceed 4 turns in the stabilized spin
Chalkie Stobbart.
RV-6 Wings closed ready to start fuselage. ATP, CFII, Tech Councilor &
Flight Advisor.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Landing technique-shirts to identify |
We should all have RV-list shirts made up so we can wear them to fly-ins and
such. Then we could identify one another. Just think--vari-prime vs. all the
rest arguments in real life--what fun we could have. Like the Van's Airforce
except it would be Van's RV-List. Yes, Bobby's RV-6 was especially nice and
had an exceptionally clean panel. Congrats to he and his wife for a job well
done. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles(at)onramp.net (charles young) |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid Ap-1servo installation |
Mine is under the right hand seat area, per Navaid included material,
showing this installation. Have seen some in wing near aileron bellcrank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
On Wed, 31 Dec 1969 wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net wrote:
>
> A few questions came up as I search to purchase a set of air horizon and
> DG. All comments are appreciated.
>
> 1. Is it worth while to buy cageable ones for use in a -6? I intend to do
> occasional loops and rolls. No eye-ball-popping maneuvers or anthing.
Cagable will help. I opted for electric gyros which I could switch off
when doing aerobatics in order to prevent damage to the gyros. If you are
starting from scratch and compare the cost of electric gyros with vacuum
(be sure to include the cost of vacuum pump, plumbing, regulator, filter,
guage, etc.) you will find that there is no significant difference between
the two. And considering the reliability of "dry" vacuum pumps ...
> 2. What up with the advertised "imported" AH and DG? They cost about 50%
> less than Simatek (sp) or RC Allen. Are they inexpensive or plain old
> cheap? Anyone has experience with these?
Plain old cheap. I had several "imported" instruments in my RV-4 when I
started rebuilding the panel. Turns out they could not be overhauled so I
had to buy new or used/yellow-tagged.
> 3. Reliablity of used or reconditioned ones?
A good instrument overhaul shop will use new bearings and other wear parts
for the overhaul of an instrument. My experience is that properly
overhauled instruments have the same MTBF as new instruments, sometimes
better because you don't get burned as often by infant mortality.
I just finished building a new panel for my RV-4. I procured
used/yellow-tagged instruments where I could and purchacsed new where
yellow-tagged instruments were unavailable. I ended up with the following
"used" instruments:
Attitude Indicator
airspeed
VSI
needle-ball
New:
heading indicator (DG)
altimeter
All of my electronic instruments, e.g. radios, CDI, engine monitor, fuel
guage, moving map, etc., are new.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
On Fri, 25 Sep 1998 Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> You just need someone with another radio to receive your
> transmissions. Adjust the mic gain on the radio and see if you can improve
> clarity while still sufficiently modulating the carrier.
The technique of having someone listen is OK but it is less desirable than
actually measuring modulation. Remember, their receiver may be the
problem and not your transmitter.
The best way to properly set modulation level is to find someone with a
device called a service monitor. This is a black box (often painted grey
:^) designed to measure the performance of VHF and UHF two-way radios. The
most popular service monitor is made by the IFR company (no relation to
Instrument Flight Rules). Your local avionics shop should have one or
something like it but if there is no avionics shop convenient to you, find
a local ham radio operator. He/she probably won't have one but will
probably know someone who does.
Not only will the service monitor let you test the transmitter for
modulation level and frequency accuracy, but it will also generate a very
accurate test signal for verifying the operation of your various receivers
including comm, nav, and marker beacon.
One of the hams in my neighborhood repairs two-way radios as a sideline
and happens to own an IFR. He came down and used it to test my radio
installtion. It was nice to see exactly what my radios were doing, i.e.
power output, modulation level, signal quality, frequency accuracy, and
receiver sensitivity. It sure beats trying to guess at what is wrong when
someone on Unicom happenes to say, "I can't understand you; your radio is
breaking up."
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing technique |
On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 JRWillJR(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> use the trim wheel to begin the
> aforementioned roundout and initial flare essentially flaring with trim.
> ... advice?JR A&P
I have seen this technique used with aircraft that have electric trim and
very heavy control forces (large Cessna's come to mind here). My simple
lever-operated pitch trim control is too sensitive for use this way so
this is not a universally applicable technique.
Given the very light control forces, I would probably not use this
technique in an RV. Instead I would practice flying the aircraft in
ground effect at landing attitude while carrying just enough power to keep
the aircraft from touching down. That gives you a lot of experience very
quickly with the aircraft in this flight regime.
If you think about it, you probably spend not more than 10 seconds per
landing in the "flare." 100 landings only nets you about 1000 seconds or
less than 0.3 hours of experience in this critically important aspect of
flying.
One of our local instructors who specializes in tailwheel transistions
uses this technique extensively and I have seen it result in very fast
learning curves.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 31 Dec 1969 wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net wrote:
>
> >
> > A few questions came up as I search to purchase a set of air horizon and
> > DG. All comments are appreciated.
> >
> > 1. Is it worth while to buy cageable ones for use in a -6? I intend to do
> > occasional loops and rolls. No eye-ball-popping maneuvers or anthing.
>
> Cagable will help. I opted for electric gyros which I could switch off
> when doing aerobatics in order to prevent damage to the gyros. If you are
> starting from scratch and compare the cost of electric gyros with vacuum
> (be sure to include the cost of vacuum pump, plumbing, regulator, filter,
> guage, etc.) you will find that there is no significant difference between
> the two. And considering the reliability of "dry" vacuum pumps ...
>
>
>
> Brian Lloyd
Brian
I question whether it is a good idea to turn the gyros off for acro. It seems
to me that would just allow them to flop around and could damage them. Not having
used elec I don't know the answers this. I do know the the vac gyro people do
not recommend turning the vac of during acro. FWIW I use RC Allen and have not
had any problems with them doing mild acro.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv@*getlost*ix.netcom.com remove *getlost*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> End of R.A.H posting - start of comments by Kevin Horton
> ...
> Some people have spun RV-6s. Some people have spun them and wished they
> hadn't. You need to realize that every homebuilt aircraft is slightly
> different. Just because "Joe" had no problem with spins in his RV-6 does
> not mean that all RV-6s will have good spin characteristics.
>
> I recommend that you very carefully consider whether you should do a full
> spin evaluation or not. There may be merit to a limited evaluation,
> looking at recoveries after one turn or less, but I would recommend that
> you go no further than that.
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
> khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
> Engineering Test Pilot
> Ottawa, Canada
Very interesting post since I am just getting ready to go out and spin my
RV-4 for the first time. I am not fully comfortable doing aerobatics in
an aircraft whose spin characteristics I don't know.
This begs the question, how can people be comfortable doing snap rolls and
hammerheads without ever having spun their aircraft?
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Caummisar" <caummisa(at)arn.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing technique-shirts to identify |
That'd be great. BUT, don't forget to give Matt Dralle
and Matronics a plug since he (they) have a lot to making
this happen.
Maybe your logo and stuff on the front and Matronics on the back.
-----Original Message-----
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing technique-shirts to identify
>
>We should all have RV-list shirts made up so we can wear them to fly-ins
and
>such. Then we could identify one another. Just think--vari-prime vs. all
the
>rest arguments in real life--what fun we could have. Like the Van's
Airforce
>except it would be Van's RV-List. Yes, Bobby's RV-6 was especially nice
and
>had an exceptionally clean panel. Congrats to he and his wife for a job
well
>done. JR
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
> >On my first -6A the original main tires (McCreary Air Trac) were worn
> >out at
> >about 110 hrs. This was due in large part, I'm sure, to the number of
> >take-offs and landings during my test period and thereafter by giving
> >as
> >many rides as I could find riders. In the next 240 hours (which was
> >at
> >least half cross-country time), I flipped the new ones (Condor, I
> >think)
> >over once and they were still in good shape when I sold the plane.
>
> I agree Les, and I have posted on this before when builders have
> mentioned the "cheap" tires that come with the kits.
> I don't know of a single RV builder that didn't get twice the life out of
> their second set of tire regardless of what kind they used the second
> time.
> Your initial flying will have a much higher % of takeoffs and landings.
> Also a high % of new RV flyers are not accustomed to RV's or have
> experience in higher performance airplanes.
> The first 100 hours or so will entail landings that are probably at much
> higher speeds than optimum (extra tire wear), maybe not touching down as
> straight as would be ideal (more tire wear), heavier use of brakes than
> ideal (more tire wear), etc, etc...
> The first 100 hrs put on the airplane are likely to be the roughest the
> airplane ever see's. More rough from some pilots than other's.
> Just plan on wearing out the first set quicker than you would like, and
> don't sweat it. The second set will last much longer, but go ahead, it's
> ok for you to think that is because you bought a "good" set of tires for
> the second round. :-)
>
> Scott McDaniels
I agree with everything Scott says, as I have since he has started to contribute
to the list, but let me add some math to the analysis for those who are so
inclined....( I know this will ruin the discussion for a lot of you!). When I
bought my condors (on the advice of a formost RV guru), I measured the tread
depth and compared it to the original equipment tire. The Condor has twice the
tread depth. Since then, I have observed the wear pattern to be essentially the
same, and at the same rate PER LANDING. If this continues, the tires will last
three times as long in flying hours.
Now I am sure the condors are heavier, provide a stiffer ride and have a bigger
propensity to bounce; however, to a skilled pilot like myself, with my feathery
touch on landing, this is a non issue.
If I were Van and thought the way he did I would probably continue to provide the
cheaper, lighter tires with the least propensity to bounce. Wouldn't you?
D L (the golden touch) Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com wrote:
>
> A strain gauge array on the engine mount would be more sensitive (and give a
> thrust figure). It is possible to buy self adhesive or glue on elements quite
> cheaply and a few dollars worth of electronics would give you a solution.
>
> On a similar note, how useful would a lateral accelerometer inside the
> cockpit be to give the pilot an indication that the engine was making
> normal power? It wouldn't address the sudden engine failure problem, but
> would perhaps help in some cases. Comments?
Widgets are nice but it strikes me that it is prudent to use what is going
to be in every aircraft. You already have an accelerometer of sorts in
every aircraft: the airspeed indicator. The rate of change of airspeed is
acceleration. Speed gained within a given distance will work also.
Heck, if you have flown an aircraft multiple times you have a feel for how
much distance it will take to achieve flying speed given weight and
density altitude. Pick a go/no-go point on the runway and close the
throttle at that point if you haven't achieved positive rate of climb.
Making these decisions ahead of time while you are not pressured *GREATLY*
reduces the chance of making a bad decision.
As an example, glider pilots are taught how to respond in the case of a
rope break. For the average training glider (22:1 L/D) it looks something
like this:
below 200' -- land out (straight ahead)
200'-400' -- turn back and land downwind
400'-600' -- make an abreviated pattern and land midfield
above 600' -- make a normal pattern
The glider pilot doesn't need to make a snap decision because he/she has
already made the decision before taking off. He/she just looks at the
altimeter and the decision is already made for him/her. (Flying gliders I
have had a rope break at 220' and made a successful downwind landing.)
You can apply this same technique to flying a powered plane but the
numbers will differ between types of aircraft and must be determined
experimentally. For instance, I recommend determining the following
points in your flight:
1. the go/no-go distance down the runway;
2. the altitude at which you can successfully turn back after a power
loss;
3. the point at which you can make an abbreviated pattern and still make
the runway.
I have done this and found the results interesting. I flew to a large,
uncontrolled airport surrounded by farmland on a calm-wind day (when noone
else was using the field). I took off and pulled the throttle at various
altitudes and airspeeds to see if I could safely turn back and make a
downwind landing. I was surprised to learn that, in my Grumman Tiger, I
could indeed make a safe turn-back landing from as low as 500' WITH THIS
AIRPLANE, CALM WIND, AND NO OBSTRUCTIONS. I also learned that I cannot
make a safe turn-back landing in my Comanche from any altitude unless the
runway is really long, I pull the prop control to low RPM, and leave the
gear up until I have completed my turn. In essence I have determined that
turn-back is not a good option in the Comanche.
Although I haven't had a chance to try it, I suspect that the results for
the RV-4 will be similar to the Tiger. I suspect that both aircraft have
similar climb/descent angle ratios.
And please accept my apology for this long ramble. I didn't realize I had
written so much.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "albert poon" <albertp(at)bigpond.com> |
dear listers,
i am about to instal the bayonet probe for the cht(mitchell) into the #3
cylinder head. there are two ports. which one is the preferable location. i
figure that the top one will be cooled more by the incoming air/baffles,
whilst the lower is just upstream of the inlet manifold and cooled by the
fuel/air mixture.
any comments?
On another point, i intend to locate the cht probe in #3cyl and the egt
probe in #4cyl. this gives me a view of two cylinders whilst i lean the
engine. is this preferable to locating both probes on the one cylinder?
any comments will be much appreciated
thanks in advance
albert poon
hobart tasmania aust
albertp(at)bigpond.com
rv6 all done except wiring up the avionics, connect her up and assembly to
weigh,bits and pieces every where.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpling Hinges |
I dimpled to hinge material for my trim tab, and had no problems getting it
to lay down right. Make sure when you dimple, you put the piano wire into
the hinge for support.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
>
>With the recent wisdom of Scott I have now figured out why my trim tab
looks
>so screwy!...I had big problems making the hinge line up, and it was all
>tweaked out just like Scott said....
>
>If one were to reconstruct a trim tab (not that I want to..) how do you get
>your rivets to sit flush if you were not to dimple the skin and hinge?
>Any comments, Scott?
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>Waiting on Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Can I post this in my employees' break room?
>Just because someone is working for a corporation (LLC or >Standard) does
not relieve them of their individual responsibility or >liability for their
own negligent acts.
>Bruce (Glasair III builder, still sandin')
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
>
>On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>>
>> End of R.A.H posting - start of comments by Kevin Horton
>> ...
>> Some people have spun RV-6s. Some people have spun them and wished they
>> hadn't. You need to realize that every homebuilt aircraft is slightly
>> different. Just because "Joe" had no problem with spins in his RV-6 does
>> not mean that all RV-6s will have good spin characteristics.
>>
>> I recommend that you very carefully consider whether you should do a full
>> spin evaluation or not. There may be merit to a limited evaluation,
>> looking at recoveries after one turn or less, but I would recommend that
>> you go no further than that.
>>
>> Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
>> khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>> Engineering Test Pilot
>> Ottawa, Canada
>
>Very interesting post since I am just getting ready to go out and spin my
>RV-4 for the first time. I am not fully comfortable doing aerobatics in
>an aircraft whose spin characteristics I don't know.
>
>This begs the question, how can people be comfortable doing snap rolls and
>hammerheads without ever having spun their aircraft?
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
>(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
>(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
>
It should be noted that the RV-4 and the RV-6 do not have the same
spin charactoristics. One of our local RV-4 gurus spun his -4 while
his video camera recorded all of it from the cockpit. It's very
enlightening to see how fast the spin will wind up in one direction
but not in the other. In one direction simply letting go of the
controls brought it out of the spin while in the other direction the
stick popped into the left rear corner and stayed there while the spin
continued.
The developed spins were about 1 1/2 to 2 seconds per turn (if I
recall correctly).
BTW, the pilot was a former airforce and 747 pilot with thousands of
hours. As aircraft may vary in performance so may pilots.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> Very interesting post since I am just getting ready to go out and spin my
> RV-4 for the first time. I am not fully comfortable doing aerobatics in
> an aircraft whose spin characteristics I don't know.
>
> This begs the question, how can people be comfortable doing snap rolls and
> hammerheads without ever having spun their aircraft?
>
> Brian Lloyd
Just so there is not any confusion the comments regarding spins do not
apply to RV-4s other than be careful.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv@*getlost*ix.netcom.com remove *getlost*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
On Sun, 27 Sep 1998, Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Brian
> I question whether it is a good idea to turn the gyros off for acro. It seems
> to me that would just allow them to flop around and could damage them. Not having
> used elec I don't know the answers this. I do know the the vac gyro people do
> not recommend turning the vac of during acro. FWIW I use RC Allen and have not
> had any problems with them doing mild acro.
I asked this question of the outfit from which I purchased my gyros and
have had my instruments rebuilt in the past (The Gyro House, Auburn, CA).
They felt that the loads on the various components of the gyros posed by
aerobatics are much lower of the gyro is not operating. They felt that
was true of both electric and air-driven gyros but that it is impractical
to turn the air, vacuum or pressure, on and off. This was another factor
in my decision to go with all electric gyros. Another factor in choosing
electrcal power for my gyros is the ease with which to create a secondary
power source in case of failure of the primary power.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
On Sun, 27 Sep 1998 ammeterj(at)home.com wrote:
> >Very interesting post since I am just getting ready to go out and spin my
> >RV-4 for the first time. ...
> >
> >This begs the question, how can people be comfortable doing snap rolls and
> >hammerheads without ever having spun their aircraft?
> >
> >Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
> >brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
>
> It should be noted that the RV-4 and the RV-6 do not have the same
> spin charactoristics.
I wouldn't expect so.
> One of our local RV-4 gurus spun his -4 while
> his video camera recorded all of it from the cockpit. It's very
> enlightening to see how fast the spin will wind up in one direction
> but not in the other. In one direction simply letting go of the
> controls brought it out of the spin while in the other direction the
> stick popped into the left rear corner and stayed there while the spin
> continued.
>
> The developed spins were about 1 1/2 to 2 seconds per turn (if I
> recall correctly).
Thanks for the initial reference point.
> BTW, the pilot was a former airforce and 747 pilot with thousands of
> hours. As aircraft may vary in performance so may pilots.
I agree. I have spun several types of aircraft. Some, like the Christen
Eagle, are extremely benign and pleasant to spin, a virtual "no brainer"
for the pilot. Others have been more "interesting."
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David S. Hamilton" <hamlton(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing technique |
"flaring with trim."
JR,
This is a common technique that works great in many aircraft and not so
good in others. I often use trim to assist the flare in the MD-88 I fly
for a living. The old F-4E landed great this way as does the entire line
of Grumman single engine airplanes. The bottom line is does it work for
you? Give it a try on a calm day and see what you think. Proceed
carefully and add a little more each time until you get comfortable. After
all, in the flare, the aircraft is decelerating and if you can learn to
trim for these slowing speeds at the same rate the airplane is decelerating
it follows that holding the aircraft off becomes almost effortless. Just
takes a little practice.
I must mention the downside to all this as well.
Be sure you are committed to landing and be ready for a handfull if you
have to go around. You could easlily find the airplane wanting to pitchup
rapidly when you shove the throttle back in. Ask yourself if you can
handle this and if unsure then don't try. We don't need and more
stall/spin accidents.
You can also find yourself in an unintentional pitchup if you trim too
rapidly.
Also please realize that as you are holding the airplane off the ground
waiting for that sweet touchdown you are also eating up runway at around 88
feet/second (at 60 miles/hour) this can cause a long landing. Not much of
a problem in an RV but worth considering on a short runway.
Enjoy
Dave Hamilton
RV-8 (80001)
N880RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron Mounting |
I am mounting the ailerons onto my wings. The airfoil template seems of
limited value. I "think" I have a good fit but I don't "know" that I do.
The A-406 and 407 brackets are prepunched as is the spar reinfocement
plate but not the spar itself. I started simply by lining up the puched
holes and clamping everything down. The template fits OK but how do I
determine that the aileron IS vertically correct? I put a bottom skin in
position and it seems failrly flat from the wing to the aileron. The gap
between the aileron and the top skin is consistant along the span at about
1/4". I know this gap is designed in for aileron effectiveness and the
plans show about this much but it seems a bit excessive? I've looked at
pictures and some appear to have less. Does anybody know how much of a gap
there should be?
Scott A. Jordan
80331
Nerviously mounting ailerons
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Temperature are relative. As you pointed out, two ports on the same cylinder
and you are already postulating which is the hottest port. Since
temperatures are relative and need some comparison, what will you be
comparing if you have an EGT which is always relative to many, many factors
to a CHT on a different cylinder. You have no basis of comparison.
EGT is fast acting relative temperature telling you that for the altitude,
power settings, humidity, gasoline, probe location, outside temperature that
when peaked you are at about the best fuel/air mixture. The peak indication
will change with a different set of parameters. It will even change if your
mag quits. It will raise the indicated temperature. There are published
Max cylinder temperatures but the CHT is very slow to change. It can be
used to check cooling effectiveness if you can measure 2 or more cylinders
at the same time. You still need a reference. With one probe you don't
have any way to check.
One final word, Temperatures are relative. There are absolute max temps for
CHT but not for EGTs.
-----Original Message-----
From: albert poon <albertp(at)bigpond.com>
Date: Sunday, September 27, 1998 7:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: cht instal
>
>dear listers,
>i am about to instal the bayonet probe for the cht(mitchell) into the #3
>cylinder head. there are two ports. which one is the preferable location. i
>figure that the top one will be cooled more by the incoming air/baffles,
>whilst the lower is just upstream of the inlet manifold and cooled by the
>fuel/air mixture.
>any comments?
>On another point, i intend to locate the cht probe in #3cyl and the egt
>probe in #4cyl. this gives me a view of two cylinders whilst i lean the
>engine. is this preferable to locating both probes on the one cylinder?
>any comments will be much appreciated
>thanks in advance
>albert poon
>hobart tasmania aust
>albertp(at)bigpond.com
>rv6 all done except wiring up the avionics, connect her up and assembly to
>weigh,bits and pieces every where.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
.com>
>> End of R.A.H posting - start of comments by Kevin Horton
>> ...
>> Some people have spun RV-6s. Some people have spun them and wished they
>> hadn't. You need to realize that every homebuilt aircraft is slightly
>> different. Just because "Joe" had no problem with spins in his RV-6 does
>> not mean that all RV-6s will have good spin characteristics.
>>
>> I recommend that you very carefully consider whether you should do a full
>> spin evaluation or not. There may be merit to a limited evaluation,
>> looking at recoveries after one turn or less, but I would recommend that
>> you go no further than that.
>>
>> Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
>> khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>> Engineering Test Pilot
>> Ottawa, Canada
>
>Very interesting post since I am just getting ready to go out and spin my
>RV-4 for the first time. I am not fully comfortable doing aerobatics in
>an aircraft whose spin characteristics I don't know.
>
>This begs the question, how can people be comfortable doing snap rolls and
>hammerheads without ever having spun their aircraft?
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
Brian,
I was referring specifically to the RV-6/6A because of the experience
described in the R.A.H posting, and because Van has recommended against
spinning RV-6s (caveat - I don't have my RV-ators on the road with me, and
I don't recall exactly what Van said).
I understand that the RV-4 has better characteristics, but I would
recommend that you find out what Van's recommendation is about spinning first.
I will mention a few FAR 23 requirements, not because we have to follow
them, but because a lot of people have thought long and hard about them,
and they make good sense. FAR 23 requires that all single-engine aircraft
designs be shown to have acceptable spin recovery character after one turn
spins, with the flaps up or down, at all CGs (aft is worst case). Note
that there is a high risk of overspeeding the flaps after recovering from a
spin with flaps down, so this one may or may not be a good idea for RVs.
FAR 23 requires that aircraft approved for aerobatics undergo a full spin
evaluation, including multiple turn spins, with a huge matrix of different
control deflections and power settings during spin entry and recovery. The
aim is to show that no matter what the pilot does, he cannot get the
aircraft into an unrecoverable spin mode. The whole spin matrix can take
over 100 spins to do.
Recovery characteristics are better at forward CG, so manufacturers
generally ballast the aircraft to the forward limit at the start of the
spin program. If the characteristics at forward CG are OK, they move a bit
further aft and repeat, until eventually getting to the aft limit. If you
use ballast, you must very carefully think out how it will be secured. The
aircraft may have a violent spin entry, and put high loads on the ballast
restraint. If the ballast comes loose during a spin you could have big
problems.
Be careful out there,
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
I'm looking at maybe building a RV-4
Are you saying that the RV-4 does not have problems with spins?
I think I would keep away from any aircraft that has real problems with spins,
But
then again I know nothing about the RV Aircraft other than what I read here.
Gordon
Not Building
No Selection Made Yet.
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Brian Lloyd wrote:
> >
>
> > Very interesting post since I am just getting ready to go out and spin my
> > RV-4 for the first time. I am not fully comfortable doing aerobatics in
> > an aircraft whose spin characteristics I don't know.
> >
> > This begs the question, how can people be comfortable doing snap rolls and
> > hammerheads without ever having spun their aircraft?
> >
> > Brian Lloyd
>
> Just so there is not any confusion the comments regarding spins do not
> apply to RV-4s other than be careful.
> --
> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
> jsflyrv@*getlost*ix.netcom.com remove *getlost*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Their was a gentleman a while back who was on the list who went out and
spin tested his RV-4 just so he could report back to the list. He was from
Texas and made many very good posts to the list until he sold his RV and
bought a multi-seat spam-can (he said lovingly) for the use of his family.
I think his name was Herman Deirks or something like that but my point is
that his spin reports should be in the archives. They were very detailed if
I recall correctly and if you are going to spin test *YOUR* RV-4 I would
suggest you look up these reports and read them as a starting point. AL
>
>> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> > Very interesting post since I am just getting ready to go out and spin my
>> > RV-4 for the first time. I am not fully comfortable doing aerobatics in
>> > an aircraft whose spin characteristics I don't know.
>> >
>> > This begs the question, how can people be comfortable doing snap rolls
and
>> > hammerheads without ever having spun their aircraft?
>> >
>> > Brian Lloyd
>>
>> Just so there is not any confusion the comments regarding spins do not
>> apply to RV-4s other than be careful.
>> --
>> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
>> jsflyrv@*getlost*ix.netcom.com remove *getlost*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Brian,
You have some great points in your post and I agree with much of it.
However, I must disagree with some of you post especially as it relates to
turning back after an engine failure after takeoff. Oldtimers who have
endured pr*mer discussions, enjoyed the wonderful words of Austin, and
learned from Electric Bob and others, will also recall a discussion on
turning back after take off.
It is my hope that all who contemplate turning back after take off read the
NTSB reports regularly. Pilots get killed time and time again trying to
save their tin instead of their skin. To save bandwidth, I posted an essay
on this subject on my webpage the last time this came up and it remains. It
can be found at http://www.petroblend.com/dougr/dnt-turn.htm
I know that Gliders pilots are taught and practice turning back. Your
assesment of the Comanche is true for most airplanes. An RV is a better
glider than a most spam cans. However it is not a glider and turning back
after take off is bad business. Encouraging it in this venue is bad
business too.
As the "Defender of Don't Turn Back!"
I remain,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
P.S. If you ever take a BFR from me you can count on at least one engine
failure after T/O. If you try to turn back you can count on a long
afternoon. ;-)
>downwind landing. I was surprised to learn that, in my Grumman Tiger, I
>could indeed make a safe turn-back landing from as low as 500' WITH THIS
>AIRPLANE, CALM WIND, AND NO OBSTRUCTIONS. I also learned that I cannot
>make a safe turn-back landing in my Comanche from any altitude unless the
>runway is really long, I pull the prop control to low RPM, and leave the
>gear up until I have completed my turn. In essence I have determined that
>turn-back is not a good option in the Comanche.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
This was another factor
>in my decision to go with all electric gyros. Another factor in choosing
>electrcal power for my gyros is the ease with which to create a secondary
>power source in case of failure of the primary power.
I have been following this thread with interest as I too am interested in
the occasional light aerobatics. However, I would also like a minimal IFR
panel so I can climb to VFR ontop when flying from low ceilings to VFR
destinations. Bearing this in mind, is it legal to have an all electric
panel for IFR? I have always heard that two different sources of power
i.e.. a vacuum A.I. and an electric T&B were required in case one source
failed.
Vince Welch
8A Tail on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
While working on the Vertical Stabilizer, I have noticed a problem. All of
the parts of the VS fit together fine, and are per the drawings, with pre-
punched holes in the skin falling where they should. However, where the
VS407(center rib) slides under the flange of the VS402(fwd spar), there does
not appear to be an edge margin for the holes that hold the spar, the rib, and
the skin together. Has anyone had this problem? And, what did you do about
it??
P.S. When I say "no edge margine", what I mean to say is that if I drill a
hole through the pilot hole in the skin, which appears to be in the correct
place, there will be neat little "half holes" in the rib at that location.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
i have a web-site about the 6a.i am building it now.i am starting to work on
the tail.here it is rv6ajmw at
www.zyworld.com or if that doesn't work it is www.zyworld.com/rv6ajmw/
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 9/27/98 10:15:03 Central Daylight Time, JNice51355(at)aol.com
writes:
<< P.S. When I say "no edge margine", what I mean to say is that if I drill a
hole through the pilot hole in the skin, which appears to be in the correct
place, there will be neat little "half holes" in the rib at that location. >>
Not good!! Wish I knew what to tell you, except "hold that edge distance." I
don't know what it would be, though.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DWAIN L. HARRIS" <102617.2606(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid Ap-1servo installation |
Hi Bob
I installed my servo under the right seat. they sent pictures showing
this way.
Other builders that I've talked to put it in the wing tip saying that it
will be easyer to get to. Pulling up the floor panel seems much easyer an
less chance of paint damage then pulling off the wing tip ( my opinon ).
It sure is handy if you have to reach in the back or fold maps or even
change the CD
Dwain Harris
N164DH
RV-6 70 Hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I'm looking at maybe building a RV-4
>Are you saying that the RV-4 does not have problems with spins?
>I think I would keep away from any aircraft that has real problems
>with spins, But
>then again I know nothing about the RV Aircraft other than what I read
>here.
>
No model RV has a spin problem as long as it is built and operated per
the designers recommendations.
In a nut shell, Van has recommended builders of RV-6(A)'s not
recreationally spin their airplanes in major part because of the steep
nose down attitude and high rotation rate.
Van knows that most people building (and then flying) RV's are your
typical recreational pilots that maybe have never experienced any
aerobatics (or maybe even spins) in any other aircraft they have flown>
>From what I understand (I have never explored spins in RV-6(A)'s beyond
initial development) is that the spin progresses from initial development
in about 3 to 3 1/2 turns with each turn being at a higher rate and more
nose down until it has stabilized after that many turns.
Because of this Van has always had some concern that pilots could scare
themselves badly (or scare a passenger riding with them) if they weren't
prepared for what could develop.
When he was personally doing the spin testing of the RV-6A (i think)
he tested through 1 to 2 turns or so and saw that it was still
developing. Not being sure what the final outcome was going to be (and
being the smart man that he is) he got Bob Herendean to do some spin
testing.
He did a bunch of spin tests and in the end said their was no spin
quality problem at all but the rotation rate would probably scare
the bageebee's out of some people.
So much for nut shell discription...
Bottom line is that the RV-6(A) is different from an RV-4, but none of
them have a spin problem. Van just recommends that you thing seriously
before doing spins in an RV-6(A) (At least anything beyond experiencing
the initial entry and practicing recoveries).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>starting from scratch and compare the cost of electric gyros with
>vacuum
>(be sure to include the cost of vacuum pump, plumbing, regulator,
>filter,
>guage, etc.) you will find that there is no significant difference
>between
>the two.
Where did you buy these instruments?
I have never seen quality electric Gyro instruments for less than
$1000 to $1200 each.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bsgray(at)ntplx.net> |
Sure
My youngest son, while working as a summer life guard for our local municipality,
had the tragic experience of having a 4 year old boy drown on his watch. Even
though he did everything right with regard to attempting to save the boy, my son
was still named as a individual co-defendant in the resultant suit. Fortunately,
he was covered by the insurance umbrella of the city.
Not to be out done, my eldest son was broad sided at an intersection by a sales
rep visiting clients while driving her uninsured personal vehicle. I named both
her, as an individual, and her employer in my recovery action. The judgment was
paid by her employer's business insurance company.
Now I'm sure some learned attorney will jump in here and try to point out the
difference in the laws regarding torts and strict manufacturing liability but it
really doesn't matter. Who ever has a deep pocket will be named. And, baised
joint and several liability, if you're found 1 percent liable and no one else has
any money, you pick up the whole tab.
BTW, I know of one big suit involving homebuilder liability that's now in the
planning stages.
Bruce (Glasair III builder)
Moe Colontonio wrote:
>
> Can I post this in my employees' break room?
>
> >Just because someone is working for a corporation (LLC or >Standard) does
> not relieve them of their individual responsibility or >liability for their
> own negligent acts.
>
> >Bruce (Glasair III builder, still sandin')
>
> Moe Colontonio
> moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
> Check out my RV-8 Page at:
> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 additional fuse stiffeners |
G'day folks,
I noticed on George's RV8 fuselage video that he recommends adding
additional skin stiffeners on the fuselage bottom skin between bulkheads
808 and 809..(I think those are the numbers). It does seem somewhat
"soft" in this area, and prone to oilcanning due to temperature change,
or less-than-perfect riveting technique? (not that it would happen to
ME...nope). I've just started skinning the aft fuselage, and this would
be the best time to do this, if really necessary.
Brian Denk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
Brian, Wouldn't there be a time while the elec. gyro spins down where
damage could occur? Perhaps I don't understand how the electrics work,
though. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
>Cagable will help. I opted for electric gyros which I could switch off
>when doing aerobatics in order to prevent damage to the gyros
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
>(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
>(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
<< When I
bought my condors (on the advice of a foremost RV guru), I measured the tread
depth and compared it to the original equipment tire. The Condor has twice
the
tread depth. Since then, I have observed the wear pattern to be essentially
the
same, and at the same rate PER LANDING. If this continues, the tires will
last
three times as long in flying hours.
Now I am sure the condors are heavier, provide a stiffer ride and have a
bigger
propensity to bounce; >>
I just flew my 6A today on a new set of Condors and didn't notice any change
in handling or landing characteristics vs the original McCreary Aero Trainers
(I got 155 initial hrs from them). I also had no clearance problems regarding
the wheel pants. I'm using 31 psi. I agree that the Condors are a little
heavier construction and have much more tread. I think they will last more
than 400 hrs and consider them a good buy from Chief at $60 ea.
Also, for those who are unaware, the stock brake pads (66-106) start out at
3/16" thick and Cleveland says they have reached their limit when they are
.100" thick. Mine were .140" on the left and .099" on the right (I must do
more right turns). The Avery dies made riveting the new linings a piece of
cake.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>I have been following this thread with interest as I too am interested in
>the occasional light aerobatics. However, I would also like a minimal IFR
>panel so I can climb to VFR ontop when flying from low ceilings to VFR
>destinations. Bearing this in mind, is it legal to have an all electric
>panel for IFR? I have always heard that two different sources of power
>i.e.. a vacuum A.I. and an electric T&B were required in case one source
>failed.
>
>Vince Welch
>8A Tail on order
>
Vince,
There is no such thing as a limited IFR panel. You need all the same stuff.
You can limit your nav instruments if you want to limit your approaches
(and your costs) but if you want to fly on the clocks through clag you need
two sources of power for T&B and A/H, OAT, Heated pitot, lights etc etc.
After speaking to people who have done IFR in RVs (Fred Stucklen is a good
source) I decided that a wing leveller was a minimum additional requirement.
I decided that the options were stone simple or true IFR capable but maybe
I'm an extremist.
Leo Davies
(sticking the wings on this weekend-hope those flaps fit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
1. It lags
2. It only works once you are already committed to a take-off.
A thrust indicator (or possibly a microswitch actuated by a mechanical device)
would tell you if your engine was performing before you started to roll.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Widgets are nice but it strikes me that it is prudent to use what is going
to be in every aircraft. You already have an accelerometer of sorts in
every aircraft: the airspeed indicator. The rate of change of airspeed is
acceleration. Speed gained within a given distance will work also.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: panel labels and markings |
Jim, what do you use to clear coat the label??
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW (1st flight 21 Sept 98)
This will
> protect the print if it is printed on the outside of the label, and it will
> also keep the labels from peeling in the corners after passage of time.
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Thanks Brian,
Could be ambient noise in the cockpit, although the tape recorder
patched into my mic/headset copies my voice perfectly clear?
Ed
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
>
> >
> >GV, I have a similar question and you sound like you know this stuff. I
> >have a Terra 720 that is broken and unreadable when I transmit. I
> >receive fine, and the mic seems fine in that I can record on a
> >patched-in recorder and the voice is clear. I took the radio to the
> >shop and they said that other than the gain set a little high they could
> >find no problem.
>
> The Terra comm has an automatic mic gain control circuit that is supposed
> to automatically adapt to differences in mic gain level so you can't set
> the mic gain on that radio. My experience is that when people complain
> that the radio is "broken up and unreadable," the problem is the mic being
> overdriven by noise. Some mics are better at cancling cockpit noise than
> others. For instance, the electret mics on my David Clark HD-10-40
> headsets are very susceptible to noise while the electret mics on my
> Softcomm headsets are much, much better. Supposedly the military amplified
> dynamic mics are the best for noise resistance.
>
> Oregon Aero has something they call a "mic muff" that reduces the noise
> getting to the mic. I have one on my helmet mic and it seems to improve
> the noise immunity.
>
> >Is it possible that my intercom is
> >overdriving/overmodulating the transmitter, could the solution be as
> >simple as turning down the volume control on the intercom (or does that
> >only effect the receive channel?).
>
> That affects only the audio going to the headphones. It has no effect on
> the transmit level.
>
> Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
> brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
> http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
> +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Thanks Mike,
Will recheck antenna connections, although I would have thought that an
antenna problem would be noticable on receive as well as transmit.
Ed
> Intercoms often have mic gain adjustment pots inside
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Utahpilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
I''ve just starting do some aerobatics in my RV-6A. I've got an 0320 with 160
hp and the Sensenich Metal Fixed Prop. I've been doing Aileron Rolls and 90
degree banking Wing Overs. I find it's very easy to exceed the 2600 rpm
restriction when I nose the airplane over to get my 170-180 mph entry speed.
I realize that I can throttle back and make the pitch down steeper to get the
higher speeds but just wanted to find out if this it what others are doing or
do you sometimes exceed 2600 rpm for a brief time (perhaps 10 seconds) prior
to pull up and then bleeding off the rpms.
Ron Caldwell
utahpilot(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Utahpilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tires - Keeping Inflated |
I have a hard time keeping my tires inflated. I try to keep them inflated
with 31 psi. Within two weeks time, they usually deflate to about 22 psi.
Should I replace the inner tubes, value stems, or do something else.
Ron Caldwell
utahpilot(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Thanks Brian, will see if local repair shop may have such a radio
monitor.
Ed Anderson
>
> -->
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Cabe" <robert.cabe(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight (note for Tim Lewis) |
Tim,
Good news! An RV-6 at Bulverde flew last weekend for the first time. It
has a 180HP with a constant speed prop. It's not painted yet and there is a
lot of finish work remaining, but it flew beautifully. An RV-8 at Bulverde,
beautifully painted and finished, will be inspected this week and will fly
shortly thereafter.
Sounds like you're also approaching that "magic moment".
Bob
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 additional fuse stiffeners |
<< I noticed on George's RV8 fuselage video that he recommends adding
additional skin stiffeners on the fuselage bottom skin between bulkheads
808 and 809..(I think those are the numbers). It does seem somewhat
"soft" in this area, and prone to oilcanning due to temperature change,
or less-than-perfect riveting technique? (not that it would happen to
ME...nope). I've just started skinning the aft fuselage, and this would
be the best time to do this, if really necessary.
Brian Denk
>>
G'day, Brian:
This is a standard thing with -4 and Rocket builders also. It seems that that
belly skin has a mind of its own, and is fairly non-conformal. The stiffeners
keep noise to a minmum while taxiing (no more BONG BONG like that old Cessna
140).
We put two between the 8 & 9 bulkheads, angled like the elev bellcrank ribs,
and one between the 9 & 10. For a retro-fit like yours sounds like, I'd pro-
seal 'em in- no rivets at all, or maybe one rivet in each end of each
stiffener.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 additional fuse stiffeners |
<< I noticed on George's RV8 fuselage video that he recommends adding
additional skin stiffeners on the fuselage bottom skin between bulkheads
808 and 809..(I think those are the numbers). It does seem somewhat
"soft" in this area, and prone to oilcanning due to temperature change,
or less-than-perfect riveting technique? (not that it would happen to
ME...nope). I've just started skinning the aft fuselage, and this would
be the best time to do this, if really necessary.
Brian Denk
>>
G'day, Brian:
This is a standard thing with -4 and Rocket builders also. It seems that that
belly skin has a mind of its own, and is fairly non-conformal. The stiffeners
keep noise to a minmum while taxiing (no more BONG BONG like that old Cessna
140).
We put two between the 8 & 9 bulkheads, angled like the elev bellcrank ribs,
and one between the 9 & 10. For a retro-fit like yours sounds like, I'd pro-
seal 'em in- no rivets at all, or maybe one rivet in each end of each
stiffener.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
Ron:
Spit on your finger and wipe it on the valve. If it bubbles, tighten the valve
and
do it again. If it doesn't bubble your tubes are leaking and need to be replaced.
You only replace the valve stems in tubeless tires which I presume you do not have
if you are asking about replacing the tubes.
Good Luck
Joe Walker
Houston, Texas
Utahpilot(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a hard time keeping my tires inflated. I try to keep them inflated
> with 31 psi. Within two weeks time, they usually deflate to about 22 psi.
> Should I replace the inner tubes, value stems, or do something else.
>
> Ron Caldwell
> utahpilot(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>There is no such thing as a limited IFR panel. You need all the same stuff.
>You can limit your nav instruments if you want to limit your approaches
>(and your costs) but if you want to fly on the clocks through clag you need
>two sources of power for T&B and A/H, OAT, Heated pitot, lights etc etc.
>After speaking to people who have done IFR in RVs (Fred Stucklen is a good
>source) I decided that a wing leveller was a minimum additional requirement.
>
Per FAR 91.205, heated pitot is not an FAA requirement for IFR. I got my
instrument and CFII ticket in an IFR 152 in Florida that did not have heated
pitot. Granted it is a good idea, especially in the winter, but it is not a
requirement. Nav lights are only required for night flight. Leave them off
and you can still fly IFR day. An OAT gauge is also not required.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
Sue the FAA. They require aviation tubes to remain flexible down to 40
below. Only natural rubber meets this requirement. Natural rubber,
unfortunately is very porous and the air pressure has to be checked
frequently. With cars back before synthetic rubber, you had to check and
re-fill tires every week.
-----Original Message-----
From: Utahpilot(at)aol.com <Utahpilot(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 7:48 AM
Subject: RV-List: Tires - Keeping Inflated
>
>I have a hard time keeping my tires inflated. I try to keep them inflated
>with 31 psi. Within two weeks time, they usually deflate to about 22 psi.
>Should I replace the inner tubes, value stems, or do something else.
>
>Ron Caldwell
>utahpilot(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 additional fuse stiffeners |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
As I recall from the past, there were some cracking problems caused by
adding stiffeners to the rear lower fuselage; I do not remember the
specifics, perhaps Scott McDaniels will tell us his opinion and any past
experiences with this. I would think that the idea of pro-sealing the
stiffeners in place would be less prone to cracking tendencies. Also, I
would imagine that you would not want to use much over about .032 angle
to save weight, especially this far back on the fuselage.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
<< I have a hard time keeping my tires inflated. I try to keep them inflated
with 31 psi. Within two weeks time, they usually deflate to about 22 psi.
Should I replace the inner tubes, value stems, or do something else. >>
I have experienced this also but not quite to the same degree. Various
suggestions were made when I asked about this. First of all, you should make
sure that your valve cores are not the problem and use good 'O' ring sealing
metal stem caps as additional assurance against valve leakage in flight.
Different tubes may be tried to see which are the tighter elastomer.
Maybe someone on the list could share with us which tubes are tighter to air
seepage. Some said to put a small amount of sealing liquid in to coat the
tube inside (milk was suggested, but I was reluctant to try).
I too would like to hear additional good info on this issue, now that we have
some new list members.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Hill <hill(at)ti.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting |
I too had problems on the rudder stiffners. I botched my first 10 or so before
giving up for the day. Finially got it though. The biggest change I made was
increasing my pressure. I'd been trying to set the rivit in about 3 secs. always
tipped; changed the air pressure to set it in about 1 second and it's
perfect almost every time. Also I somewhat center the rivit in the collar.
These two changes combined gave me perfect rivits every time. Rivited the
rest of the rivit's in about an hour (almost as much time as I spent on the
first 10). I ended up leaving the tilted rivits in; didn't want to ruin the
thin skin drilling them out. Pounded them a little more and moved on.
RV-8 finishing rudder
>
>
>Sorry to bother everyone with such a simple question, but I can't seem to
>back-rivet. Before riveting my stiffners, I did some tests on some scrap
>and left over angle. I can't seem to get the gun straight. My shop heads
>always come out slanted. I tried to hold the gun as steady as I could. I
>have the 2x gun from Avery. I tried different air pressures. What
>should I be using?
>
>Any tips greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>
>Joe
>RV-8 Tail
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>Per FAR 91.205, heated pitot is not an FAA requirement for IFR. I got my
>instrument and CFII ticket in an IFR 152 in Florida that did not have heated
>pitot. Granted it is a good idea, especially in the winter, but it is not a
>requirement. Nav lights are only required for night flight. Leave them off
>and you can still fly IFR day. An OAT gauge is also not required.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
I remember one time taking off in a 182, basically by the seat off my
pants, after lift off looking down at the airspeed indicator only to find
it pegged at zero. Very unnerving. I would never run the risk no matter
where I was, of loosing my airspeed indicator in IFR conditions. Also, part
of every pre-flight I did on this plane was to check the pitot heat
operation. I would never attempt an IFR flight anywhere without pitot heat.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
I had the same problem Jim. Vans advice was to just buck the rivet in there and
not worry about it. If your the type that loses sleep over such things, there are
several fixes. You could rivet on a new, longer flange. I think there were a few
other fixes mentioned as well. Check the archives, and take a look at my web page.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
JNice51355(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> While working on the Vertical Stabilizer, I have noticed a problem. All of
> the parts of the VS fit together fine, and are per the drawings, with pre-
> punched holes in the skin falling where they should. However, where the
> VS407(center rib) slides under the flange of the VS402(fwd spar), there does
> not appear to be an edge margin for the holes that hold the spar, the rib, and
> the skin together. Has anyone had this problem? And, what did you do about
> it??
> P.S. When I say "no edge margine", what I mean to say is that if I drill a
> hole through the pilot hole in the skin, which appears to be in the correct
> place, there will be neat little "half holes" in the rib at that location.
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
> WA State
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>
>Brian,
>
>You have some great points in your post and I agree with much of it.
>However, I must disagree with some of you post especially as it relates to
>turning back after an engine failure after takeoff. Oldtimers who have
>endured pr*mer discussions, enjoyed the wonderful words of Austin, and
>learned from Electric Bob and others, will also recall a discussion on
>turning back after take off.
And you seem to have missed the point of my comment. As with all things,
the right answer is "it depends." Clearly it is never safe to turn back in
the Comanche. My takeoff prep includes a "no turning back" admonition
prior to take off in the Comanche. I have proved, through experimentation,
that it is safe from several altitudes (I tried it from 400, 500, and 600
feet AGL) and attitudes (I climbed at both Vx and Vy) that it is indeed
safe to turn back in the Grumman Tiger.
You are making a blanket admonition that it is never safe to turn back to
the airport. I am stating that, at least in the case of the Grumman Tiger,
you are incorrect. I back up my statement with experimental proof. I am
suggesting that people perhaps consider trying it in their own aircraft
under safe and controled conditions to see for themselves what happens and
then make a preflight decision based on actual results.
I agree that, in leu of reliable, experiential data, turning back is
probably not a safe bet. I continue to hold that, in the presence of
reliable, experiential data, turning back may actually be the safest course
of action. And I continue to state that the pilot should consider the
situation and make the decision BEFORE taking off.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Gyro Flight Instrument/ Dual Power Source |
> From: V. E. Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
> Bearing this in mind, is it legal to have an all electric
> panel for IFR?
Yes.
>I have always heard that two different sources of power
> i.e.. a vacuum A.I. and an electric T&B were required in case one source
> failed.
You can have two electrical power sources.
I am going with an all electric panel (IFR) because I think (read IMHO) it
is more reliable. With the new RC Batteries and lightweight backup spline
driven alternators sold by B&C, the weight penalty is minimal. Either a
system with an independently wired backup battery or whole backup
electrical system, will allow me to have two power sources for my gyros and
provide backup power for other critical flight instruments besides the
gyros. A vacuum system is not to good at powering a nav/com ; )
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
I beg to differ. My Piper never needed air in the tires more than every three
months or so over a fifteen year period and my RV has lost about 10psi total in
six months. Any tire that is losing major pressure in two weeks has a leak. Maybe
some tubes are more airtight than others.
Joe Walker
Houston, Texas
Cy Galley wrote:
>
> Sue the FAA. They require aviation tubes to remain flexible down to 40
> below. Only natural rubber meets this requirement. Natural rubber,
> unfortunately is very porous and the air pressure has to be checked
> frequently. With cars back before synthetic rubber, you had to check and
> re-fill tires every week.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Utahpilot(at)aol.com <Utahpilot(at)aol.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 7:48 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Tires - Keeping Inflated
>
> >
> >I have a hard time keeping my tires inflated. I try to keep them inflated
> >with 31 psi. Within two weeks time, they usually deflate to about 22 psi.
> >Should I replace the inner tubes, value stems, or do something else.
> >
> >Ron Caldwell
> >utahpilot(at)aol.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>You are making a blanket admonition that it is never safe to turn >back
to the airport. I am stating that, at least in the case of the >Grumman
Tiger, you are incorrect. I back up my statement with >experimental
proof. I am suggesting that people perhaps consider >trying it in their
own aircraft under safe and controled conditions >to see for themselves
what happens and then make a preflight >decision based on actual
results.
You are right that some airplanes can probably handle it in an ideal
situation. However, in a lot of cases, the plane might not have been
climbing normally prior to the complete engine failure, not providing
enough altitude to turn back.
But you cannot forget the human factor. In such a stressful situation, a
lot of pilots will have their head in the cockpit trying to fix the
problem rather than maintaining their attitude. Add to that an attempt
at a tight turn radius, and going from a headwind to a tailwind, and
most pilots will stall the plane.
The safest bet is always to land more or less straight ahead, unless
that is absolutely not an option...
Sylvain
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
The car-racing people have the same problem. Racing tires use
unvulcanized rubber because, when it heats up, it becomes very sticky
and provides better adhesion for braking, cornering, and accelerating.
Most racers take an air bottle to the track with them. You could
easily make one large enough for RV tires out of a propane cylinder,
some hose, and fittings.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
Cy Galley writes:
>
> Sue the FAA. They require aviation tubes to remain flexible down to 40
> below. Only natural rubber meets this requirement.
Thank goodness.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
^^^^^^
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
A couple of years ago I purchased a video someone (John Ammeter?)
made of spin testing his RV-4. The spins and recovery procedure
appear to be quite normal, though the spin rate and nose attitude
might be a bit different from spam cans (which I haven't spun in
over ten years, so can't comment on). The video would be useful
background if you plan to spin your RV-6A.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
[-6 tail]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: turning around in a canyon or valley |
David Carter writes:
>
> Brian Huffaker is correct.
I also agree. Don't go below manoeuvring speed without a damned
good reason. The risk of stalling is much greater than the risk
of running out of room. Practice min radius turns at Va, unless
there is a specific min radius procedure for your airplane that
says otherwise.
One real benefit of the RV, with its low wing and full canopy,
is that visibility in steep turns isn't a problem.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
[-6 tail, former mountain SAR pilot]
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 additional fuse stiffeners |
In a message dated 9/28/98 1:37:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I noticed on George's RV8 fuselage video that he recommends adding
additional skin stiffeners on the fuselage bottom skin between bulkheads
808 and 809..(I think those are the numbers). It does seem somewhat
"soft" in this area, and prone to oilcanning due to temperature change,
or less-than-perfect riveting technique? (not that it would happen to
ME...nope). I've just started skinning the aft fuselage, and this would
be the best time to do this, if really necessary.
Brian Denk
>>
Brian,
I added a rib stiffener at this location to support my S-Tec pitch servo. The
rib really does stiffen up the skin at this location. Since I'm using the
heavier 200hp engine and I only weigh 170 # I wasn't too concerned about the
extra weight. In fact it should prove beneficial being this far back. I
constructed the rib just like the baggage ribs. It proved a very easy
modification.
Rick McBride
rickrv6(at)aol.com
80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>
>The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
>1. It lags
No it doesn't. An airspeed indicator responds instantaneously to
pitot-static pressure differences modulo the mass of the pointer moving.
The frequency response for your airspeed indicator is probably about 10 Hz,
much faster that you can even hope to respond.
>2. It only works once you are already committed to a take-off.
No. It tells you your indicated airspeed. I would certainly hope that you
look at your airspeed indicator to see if it is moving and giving you
reasonable indications before you get to take off speed. If it doesn't
start moving long before the airplane starts to get light, you close the
throttle and brake. Taking off implies that you WILL be making a landing
and landing without either an airspeed indicator or AOA indicator increases
the pucker factor by a considerable margin. Remember, take-offs are
optional; landings are mandatory. ;^)
On my way to Oshkosh this year I flew my PA-16 (the RV-4 wasn't ready to
fly again yet). I made a 9000' density altitude take-off from Rock
Springs, Wyoming. The POH says that the absolute ceiling for the PA-16 is
about 13,000 feet so clearly this was going to be a marginal take-off. We
had 5,000 feet of runway. I set my go/no-go decision at 3,000 feet. If
the aircraft was not airborne and climbing out of ground effect at Vy, we
would chop the throttle and land in the remaining 2,000 feet. We marked
the point on the runway and my son, a student pilot, was to alert me when
we passed the no/no-go point while I concentrated on flying the airplane.
We took off without any problems but our ground roll was about 2,300 feet.
In this case the airspeed indicator combined with a decision distance down
the runway served as a very good method for making the go/no-go decision.
I didn't need a thrust indicator.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
Its interesting that the subject of the "turn-back" after an engine failure
has come-up for descussion. Just two weeks ago I was curious about this very
same topic. So I went out in my trusty RV-6 and did some experiments.
Level at 3,000 feet I slowed the aircraft down to about 70 knots and chopped
the power. I then pulled back and initiated a steep (80 plus degrees) 210
degree turn. After reaching 210 degrees I turn back 30 degrees. I felt that
this best simulated the turn back.
Well needless to say, 70 knots is not enough speed to turn back from zero
altitude. However, at 110 knots I was able to climb, turn and straighten-out
in enough space and still have 50 feet of altitude. 120 knots gave a more
comfortable margin. At 120 knots I could climb about 350 feet during the turn
and I never had to go below 60 knots. When I was at the 180 degree point (210
less 30) I was at 60 knots and about 75 feet above my starting point, no
flaps. It was really a fun experiment. Id pull up until the speed came
under 90 knots and then start a 80 to 110 degree bank turn while decelerating
to 60 knots. I maintained 60 knots from this point. After a few tries I
could just feel the whole maneuver without even looking at the airspeed or
altimeter. It was very repeatable.
Would I turn back? Well from zero feet I dont think so. However if I was
300 feet AGL and had 110 to 120 knots I dont think I would hesitate to turn
back.
This brings up an interesting question (and Im sure a long-drawn-out-email-
debate): Is it best to climb-out at Vx (70 knots) and slowly lower the nose
to Vy (about 110 in my plane) after reaching about 800 feet AGL - OR - liftoff
and accelerate to Vy in close proximity to the ground prior to starting the
climb.
I typically start a shallow climb while accelerating to about 100 knots before
starting a true climbout. By the time I reach 300 AGL Im at 110 to 120 knots.
This feels right to me.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
| From: | aerobubba(at)Juno.com (glen j matejcek) |
Hey Brian--
I'm a new person to this list, and will soon be off it. (as I
haven't started actual construction yet and there are only so many hrs in
a week, 275 msgs this past 4 days is a few too many....) I couldn't
resist responding to your posting re: turning back. Not only CAN it be
done, it's REQUIRED when obtaining a glider rating. (or at least was when
I was involved in that particular field. Now I fly a multi-engined video
game...) Yes, I realize that there's quite a difference between a tiger
(incidentally, my personal favorite spam can) and a glider, but the
principles are all the same. The key, of course, is understanding and
preparation.
In a glider, any tow rope break between 200 and 400 feet agl
resulted in a turn back to the field. Anything above that allowed an
abbreviated pattern. Through experimentation, as you have observed, we
discovered that we could bring the Citabria tug back after reaching 400
agl.
The keys to success included reviewing the conditions of the
moment and the various thresholds for the different procedures. The
review of the conditions included being cognizant of: 1) the wind
direction, as you need to turn into the crosswind in order to minimize
your divergence from the rwy centerline, and 2) the velocity of the wind,
as a strong headwind on takeoff could cause you to go clean off the far
end of the rwy after turning back. The thresholds and associated
procedures included landing straight ahead from 50' or less, minor turns
from 50-100' to avoid obstacles, and up to 90 degree turns in the
100-200' agl range.
The actual return to a downwind landing requires proficiency at
making a 45 degree banked turn (maximizes turn rate per altitude lost) at
the minimum sink glide speed, adjusted for the increase in stall speed.
It all sounds rather dramatic, and it certainly is the first time
you do it. After that it becomes a fun and interesting exercise. (At
least, for the instructors....)
The bottom line is that preplanning and education are invaluable.
They open up a whole lot of options that otherwise might be missed. or
miss-used. Care to speculate on how many people don't realize that the
parachute they're sitting on is REQUIRED to do all it can for you in 500'
or less?
gm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back |
>I agree that, in leu of reliable, experiential data, turning back is
>probably not a safe bet. I continue to hold that, in the presence of
>reliable, experiential data, turning back may actually be the safest course
>of action.
I can hold my breath no longer. The essence of doing anything well is
practice. I live at an airport and, in all the years I have lived here, and
in all the years I have been around airports, I have NEVER seen anyone
practicing a return-to-airport turn. If you are going to consider it as an
option, it must be practiced, a lot, with good data to start with. Thus,
perhaps most of us are not skilled enough to consider it as an option.
Consider: engine out at any time is a bad situation. The worst is probably
takeoff, second is perhaps landing (not considering IFR). Suddenly, there is
a VERY lot to do, including FLY THE AIRPLANE. Running through an emergency
checklist while the engine coughs quiet on takeoff has to be done quickly.
Most pilots, in my experience, forget perhaps the second most important
checklist item which is to turn off the fuel. (FLYING THE AIRPLANE is
first.) That's because we never really reach down and turn off the fuel
while flying, even if we are practicing emergency proceedures.
SO: engine out on takeoff is a major cluster. Turning about 250 degrees to
get back to center line and 45 degrees or so to get lined up again may be
too much to handle while FLYING THE AIRPLANE, punching the ELT on, shutting
off mags and master and fuel (my checklist order). (A 180 degree turn will
only get you pointed back the way you came; the rest is used getting back to
the runway.) If you want it on your option card, you need to go out and
practice it. Safely. Keeping in mind the number of actual emergencies that
occur from pilots practicing emergency procedures!
You should have the major portion of your emergency check list (you DO have
an emergency check list, don't you?) committed to memory, both your mental
and physical (i.e., where things are) memory. And rehearse it often. Navy
jet training 'nuggets' have to go through one emergency procedure check
EVERY time they go flying. Not a bad idea.
So? Unless you are good at low altitude, slow, complex, windmilling prop,
turns, straight ahead is probably the best option. And you should be
prepared to do just that EVERY time you take off: OK, from here its the
runway ahead, yet. And from here, the field to the left, there. And from
here the field on the other side of the road..........
Just some thoughts..........
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Taming the bear........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
In a message dated 9/27/98 10:05:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com writes:
<< I have also been told that cagable Gyro have no life benefit if you cage
them for aerobatics. All the it does for you is give you a stable
aligned gyro the moment you uncage it, >>
This statement "may" be true, unless you want to pay "military prices" for
your gyro equiptment. Maybe one needs to design their panel with this in
mind, making it very easy to remove this equiptment if going out "just to do
acro". I have tumbled a few gyros in years gone by, and await answers from
someone who knows the answer to this.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>Bearing this in mind, is it legal to have an all electric
>panel for IFR?
Yes. Case in point, most airliners don't have vacuum gyros anywhere.
>I have always heard that two different sources of power
>i.e.. a vacuum A.I. and an electric T&B were required in case one source
>failed.
IMHO A second electrical power source for electric gyros is easier to come
by than a second air source is for air-powered gyros. (I know; someone is
going to mention a venturi or the Precise Flight standby vacuum system.)
Bob Nuckols book _The_Aero_Electric_Connection_ spends a lot of time
talking about dual busses and redundant power. Bill Bainbrige at B&C
Specialties has a really nice 14V/8A dynamo that bolts to the vacuum pump
pad and provides backup power for essential systems ... like your gyros.
Heck, even a second battery pack made up of eight or nine 'D' cells will
get you down in a pinch.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
>i am about to instal the bayonet probe for the cht(mitchell) into the #3
>cylinder head. there are two ports. which one is the preferable location. i
>figure that the top one will be cooled more by the incoming air/baffles,
>whilst the lower is just upstream of the inlet manifold and cooled by the
>fuel/air mixture.
>any comments?
Are we talking about a Lycoming O-320 or O-360 here? There is usually one
port in the center of the head on the same side of the head as the intake
and exhaust ports (bottom of the cylinder when the engine is right-side up
:^). This reaches right into the center of the head and gives a good
average temperature. Are you perhaps confusing the injector and primer
holes at the intake port with the CHT port?
The only other approach to measuring CHT is a spark plug gasket
thermocouple. This measures temperature at the spark plug hole and runs
consistently about 20 degrees hotter. Note that Lycoming states in the
engine specs that redline CHT is increased by 20 degrees when measured at
the spark plug hole.
>On another point, i intend to locate the cht probe in #3cyl and the egt
>probe in #4cyl. this gives me a view of two cylinders whilst i lean the
>engine. is this preferable to locating both probes on the one cylinder?
>any comments will be much appreciated
The more information you have, the better off you are when it comes to
making decisions. With a single CHT and single EGT you don't have a very
good picture of what your engine is doing. You will only know what the CHT
is for cylinder #3 and numbers 1, 2, and 4 may be melting down for all you
know.
In my RV-4, #3 is the hottest cylinder in climb but #4 is hottest in
cruise. I know that because all 4 cylinders are instrumented in my
aircraft. I also know that, in climb, the temperature difference between
the coldest (#1) and the hottest (#3) cylinders is substantial (which is
leading me to consider changes to my baffling).
EGT is a very relative indication and doesn't really tell you much about
what is happening in that particular cylinder. On an absolute basis it
tells you whether or not combustion is taking place in that particular
cylinder but that is about it. Other than that you can watch it change as
you lean and use it to determine at which position of the mixture control
you reach peak EGT. Likewise you can see if the EGT changes suddenly (plug
or mag fails: EGT goes up suddenly).
Being able to see relative EGT over the long term will let you know what
you can expect to see and if you see something different, you know that
something has changed. That is where EGT instruments from the likes of
Insight (GEM) and JPI really shine. You get a bar pattern on the display
and you know what the pattern usually looks like for various modes of
operation. Your memory provides the persistence of information for the
purposes of relative comparison.
Now, after all that, I don't think that having CHT on one cylinder and EGT
on another really buys you too much. They do two different things. You
are always going to assume that all your CHTs are relatively close to the
instrumented cylinder. Likewise EGT. You will be able to use EGT to get
some idea of peak for the purposes of leaning the engine but that is about
all it will tell you.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/27/98 10:11:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bsgray(at)ntplx.net
writes:
<< BTW, I know of one big suit involving homebuilder liability that's now in
the
planning stages. >>
Were the initials of the pilot flying the homebuilt airplane by any chance
J. D. ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>
>
>>starting from scratch and compare the cost of electric gyros with
>>vacuum
>>(be sure to include the cost of vacuum pump, plumbing, regulator,
>>filter,
>>guage, etc.) you will find that there is no significant difference
>>between
>>the two.
>
>Where did you buy these instruments?
The Gyro Shop, Auburn, CA.
>I have never seen quality electric Gyro instruments for less than
>$1000 to $1200 each.
My attitude gyro was used, yellow-tagged and cost me $700. I purchased a
new 14V DG with internal lighting and paid about $1300. New, high quality,
internally lighted vacuum gyros, no core, are now in the $500-$700 range.
Spend about $300 for a vacuum pump, $100 for a vacuum regulator, $100 for a
vacuum guage, $50 for a filter and holder, and your price gets pretty close
to mine. OK, maybe you are a couple hundred bucks cheaper.
Now consider that your vacuum pump is going to fail every 500 hours or so,
and if it fails you will probably have to overhaul your gyros because they
will probably become contaminated with carbon, and your lifetime cost for
vacuum gyros may actually be more than for electric gyros.
Consider also the cost of putting in a standby vacuum system. I already
have a backup electrical system for my other essential components so my all
electric panel is already covered.
IMHO, electric gyros have a lower cost of ownership and better backup than
do vacuum gyros. You may disagree. That is what makes a horse race.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
In a message dated 9/28/98 5:11:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Utahpilot(at)aol.com
writes:
<< I find it's very easy to exceed the 2600 rpm
restriction when I nose the airplane over to get my 170-180 mph entry speed.
>>
GEE, you would surely think that Sensenich would consider making another
version of this propeller, without the restrictions, for our use, since the
0320 is still a very popular engine for the RV-series. Does anyone know if
they have plans on doing this? Possibly they can be coerced!!
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
In a message dated 9/28/98 7:05:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, joewalk@hal-
pc.org writes:
<< You only replace the valve stems in tubeless tires >>
This is true, but the valves can be removed from "tubes", and have been known
to leak. Maybe they were not tightened enough at the factory.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>
>Brian, Wouldn't there be a time while the elec. gyro spins down where
>damage could occur? Perhaps I don't understand how the electrics work,
>though. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
You are right, it takes them about 3-5 minutes to completely spin down. My
normal operation is to leave the gyros switched off. I turn them on when I
fly at night, IFR, or under the hood. The rest of the time they don't
accrue the wear and tear of operation.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>I remember one time taking off in a 182, basically by the seat off my
>pants, after lift off looking down at the airspeed indicator only to find
>it pegged at zero. Very unnerving. I would never run the risk no matter
>where I was, of loosing my airspeed indicator in IFR conditions. Also, part
>of every pre-flight I did on this plane was to check the pitot heat
>operation. I would never attempt an IFR flight anywhere without pitot heat.
If it isn't freezing, you aren't going to get ice on the pitot tube,
period, end-of-report. And pitot heat isn't going to help get rid of that
mud dauber's nest in the pitot tube that you didn't discover during preflight.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A O320 Engine baffles |
Listers,
On Friday, I sent a note asking about how to trim the sides of the
engine baffles. Since I didn't get any takers, I did extra head
scratching over the weekend and decided to go for it alone. I'm
kinda used to that out here in the boonies. So, for the ones behind
me who may hit the baffling baffles experience soon, here's what I
learned/did.
Installing the baffles is pretty straight forward except that one has to
do a lot of trimming and fitting to get them to move into position
around the engine. The holes predrilled for the bolts really do help.
Just be careful and don't get carried away with the trimming.
My concern arose at the front of the side baffles where it meets the
inlet. Per the drawings, it appeared the forward end could go into the
slot between the cowl side wall and the inlet wall. Well, that's true if
one is building an RV with the old style cowl. However, we use the
CS cowl these days. Therefore, the old drawings are confusing for
those of us with new cowls. When looking at the forward side
pieces, you gotta look at that CS dotted line and not believe it all the
way. It's close; but, it ain't the gospel truth.
>1. Do you end the sidewall so that it is 3/8" behind and flush to the
>rear edge of the inlet; or, does it extend into the notch?
You cut it to be 3/8" behind and flush to the rear edge of the inlet.
For a good picture of it, see photo page 12-1 in your manual. The
top left is the CS arrangement. The right top is the one that does the
confusing. When I had trimmed the rear and sides today, my sides
ended up looking just like the one on the left. It's the inlet duct that
makes the difference. The old style cowls may not have had them.
We do.
>2. If the sidewall does extend past the inlet, which also forces me
>to widen the floor at the front, what does that buy me? I'm pretty
>sure that it must deal with being able to get the seal material up to
>the cowl's front as far as possible to keep down the leaks. Maybe
>not.
This is no longer of any value since we don't have to worry about
that now. The seal material will be where it's supposed to be when
done. It'll reach the front of the cowl just fine.
>3. I noticed there is a good curve in the lower outer corner of the
>inlet that makes for a good gap where air could get through. How
>much trouble is it to put the gap seal in that area for a good seal?
>Did you use another method such as curving some aluminum from
>the floor to the side to make a better fit there; or, did you overlap the
>material and let it just settle in where it wanted to do the filling.
Ok, I didn't study the instructions all the way through; so, I'm not sure
if it's mentioned in the instructions. However, if one looks at those
photos again, you will find the mention of CB-616. I didn't see the
drawing for this part. I also didn't see it in the floor drawings. I did
see it in the photos. It was used in the old style cowl and could
easily be used in the new cowl to close a gap. It may be mentioned
in the instructions. If so, sorry for asking. If not, I'magonna use it
anyway! That is, if I can get it to fit up OK. There is some angle
that could get in the way somewhat mess up a good idea.
When you get ready to trim around the tops of the baffle parts, be
sure to view the Orndorff systems tapes first. The baffle fit up is the
first thing on them. It sure helped me. I used his pen in a donut idea
to do the trimming. It works. I used a pen in a wide washer, though.
I also put the pen on the end of a long tube so that the pen was 90
degrees to the tube. That allowed me to reach way back into the
inlets and to all of the marking without sticking my hands into the
inlet. Right now, I'm well pleased with the results.
Tomorrow, I go back to putting in the baffle floors with much vigor. I
may be able to get through those OK.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[4]: RV-List: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?...
Date: 28-09-98 13:48
>
>The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
>1. It lags
No it doesn't. An airspeed indicator responds instantaneously to
pitot-static pressure differences modulo the mass of the pointer moving.
The frequency response for your airspeed indicator is probably about 10 Hz,
much faster that you can even hope to respond.
>>Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
outside world full of compressible fluid (air) and the fixed volume of the
indicator. Response is about 2 to 3 seconds behind because of this.
>2. It only works once you are already committed to a take-off.
No. It tells you your indicated airspeed. I would certainly hope that you
look at your airspeed indicator to see if it is moving and giving you
reasonable indications before you get to take off speed. If it doesn't
start moving long before the airplane starts to get light, you close the
throttle and brake. Taking off implies that you WILL be making a landing
and landing without either an airspeed indicator or AOA indicator increases
the pucker factor by a considerable margin. Remember, take-offs are
optional; landings are mandatory. ;^)
On my way to Oshkosh this year I flew my PA-16 (the RV-4 wasn't ready to
fly again yet). I made a 9000' density altitude take-off from Rock
Springs, Wyoming. The POH says that the absolute ceiling for the PA-16 is
about 13,000 feet so clearly this was going to be a marginal take-off. We
had 5,000 feet of runway. I set my go/no-go decision at 3,000 feet. If
the aircraft was not airborne and climbing out of ground effect at Vy, we
would chop the throttle and land in the remaining 2,000 feet. We marked
the point on the runway and my son, a student pilot, was to alert me when
we passed the no/no-go point while I concentrated on flying the airplane.
We took off without any problems but our ground roll was about 2,300 feet.
In this case the airspeed indicator combined with a decision distance down
the runway served as a very good method for making the go/no-go decision.
I didn't need a thrust indicator.
>>> O.K. now try a runway 2,300 feet long....
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The turn-back |
In a message dated 9/28/98 3:06:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RV6junkie(at)aol.com
writes:
<< By the time I reach 300 AGL Im at 110 to 120 knots.
This feels right to me. >>
Gary
I am sure it feel right to "most".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Brian,
Again I agree with most of what you say, and I know it is words that we are
hanging up on here, But they are really important. It is the words that
your instructor choose that will pop out of your mind when the horse hockey
hits the fan. Mine said, "Fly it to the ground don't fall it to the ground"
and preserve your assets in this order, Skin, Tin, Ticket. Having lived
through this scenario I apologize for the passion with which I speak on this
subject.
>
>You are making a blanket admonition that it is never safe to turn back to
>the airport.
I am making a blanket admonition that it should not be recommended in a
broadcast forum like this.
>
>I agree that, in leu of reliable, experiential data, turning back is
>probably not a safe bet. I continue to hold that, in the presence of
>reliable, experiential data, turning back may actually be the safest course
>of action. And I continue to state that the pilot should consider the
>situation and make the decision BEFORE taking off.
I agree that if you have tried it practiced it and know absolutely in your
mind what the parameters are regarding runway length, gross wgt, temp, wind,
and added a margin for getting your $hit together after it happens, flying
back to the airport may be an option for you. Have you tried it in a no
wind condition in the Tiger at gross wgt on a hot day? I also applaud you
for doing what would be called a take off briefing, even if you are alone.
Very professional!
I fly at least 10 different airplanes regularly and more infrequently. I am
not smart enough nor do I have the gas to go out and flight test each of
these
airplane at the corners of its envelope and at various wind directions and
speeds. The matrix that developed would make a Part 25 takeoff performance
chart look like child's play. If I could develop such a chart, I could never
commit it to memory.
The buggabo is this. You may go out and practice. (I applaud that!) And
you
may even practice at gross on that hot day I described earlier. Then you
post your results here. Some other guy (or gal, sorry Louise & others)
reads it and parks it in the back of his brain that "at XXXX ft I can turn
back." Then it happens to him and POW out of the deep dark recesses of his
scared brain comes this number. The reason why it comes out is because
training works! You can't believe what you can remember and how well you
can reason in a crisis if you have been trained for it. Even if that
training was reading someone else's story on the RV-list. What he forgot
was that you had a C/S prop pulled back and he has an aerobatic wooden one
with climb pitch. This poor guy passes on a parking lot which means a trip
to the garage for repair and turns back to the airport and ends up on a trip
to the morgue. The NTSB reports are littered with fatal stall/spin
accidents resulting from turn backs.
The training has to be that the initial response is to:
1.Fly the Airplane (lower the nose to maintain flying speed)
2. Run your emergency checklist. Which include selecting your landing site.
(If you select a landing site that is not in view when your engine quits,
your chances of survival are greatly diminished.)
What I know (from first hand experience) is, if I fly the airplane as
far into the crash as I can I will almost certainly live to fly again. If I
stall/spin I will not. (fortunately no experience here) A controlled crash
down wind dramatically reduces your survival odds. I am not saying that
there is not a set of circumstances where I might fly back and land at the
airport. But there is no set of circumstances where I would recommend it an
a broadcast venue such as this.
In case you haven't figured out, this is a non-negotiable with me ;-) Not
only am I a iron headed pilot, but I like you, am a warbird pilot, the very
worst kind!
Still Defending "Don't Turn Back"
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Turning back |
>
>>I agree that, in leu of reliable, experiential data, turning back is
>>probably not a safe bet. I continue to hold that, in the presence of
>>reliable, experiential data, turning back may actually be the safest course
>>of action.
>
>I can hold my breath no longer. The essence of doing anything well is
>practice. I live at an airport and, in all the years I have lived here, and
>in all the years I have been around airports, I have NEVER seen anyone
>practicing a return-to-airport turn. If you are going to consider it as an
>option, it must be practiced, a lot, with good data to start with. Thus,
>perhaps most of us are not skilled enough to consider it as an option.
>
> (lots of good comments removed)
You are absolutely right in all your points. The point I was making, and
continue to make, is that, with practice, you can determine whether or not
you and your airplane are capable of successfully completing a turn-back to
the airport. I have practiced it and have determined that, in the aircraft
I mentioned, I felt I could safely turn back and would in an engine failure
emergency. I now need to go out and try it in the RV-4 to determine
whether or not I can safely do a turn back in that particular airplane.
BTW, the emergency checklist in that case consists of "switch tanks after
you have the runway made." You don't have any time to do anything else.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Sorry to here about your friend Milan Stavenik Jr. I pray his family will
get through this OK and you too. It must have been quite a shock to see
your friend go in like that. We all much keep a watchful eye out, no matter
what we fly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Simpson <airtime(at)proaxis.com>
Date: Friday, September 25, 1998 1:32 AM
Subject: RV-List: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?...
>
>Fellow Listers,
> It's with great sadness to report the tragic accident I witnessed last
>Friday morning. My flying companion (for the first time), Milan Stavenik
>Jr., perished after failing to climb enough after taking off from the
>Crescent Lake State Airport, here in Oregon, on our way to the Alvord
Desert
>Fly-in. Milan's all fiberglass "Cora" experimental airplane clipped a tree
>with it's right wing, breaking it (the wing) off at about 50-75 ft. in
>elevation. I had already taken off, and was circling above waiting for him
>to do the same. For reasons I still don't understand, his plane wouldn't
>climb from the 4000 ft. long runway (my Carrera Ultralight was about 500 ft
>high when I passed the end of the runway on take-off, and the previous day,
>his plane out-climbed and out performed my plane in every way). The plane
>burst into flames around the engine area immediately after hitting the
>ground. By the time I landed and got to him (and I got down FAST), the
>fiberglass plane was fully engulfed in flames, and he had failed to get out
>of it. It was un-real how fast that plane burned. I don't know if the
impact
>knocked him out, if he died from the initial impact (he didn't wear a
>helmet), or the fire got him while he was trapped inside. I'd like to think
>the impact got him.
>
> This accident has had a very sobering effect on me. It hasn't diminished
>my love of flying, but it makes me want to take every precaution possible
to
>prevent this from happening again to me or any of my flying buddies. I'd
>always wondered if something like this would change my love of flying (so
>far, it hasn't).
>
> It seems to me that the Aluminum RV's are far better than fiberglass
>planes for their fire resistance alone. I can't imagine an aluminum plane
>burning like that, unless it was fed by gasoline or something else.
>
> Milan was origionally from the Czech Republic, and moved to the US in
>1984, living in Portland where he imported (from the Czech Republic) the
>carbon fiber Sportprops (the BEST Ultralight and light plane propellers, in
>my opinion), and other light plane equipment, including the Cora he was
flying.
>
> Milan's life revolved around flying and his family. I'll miss his good
>nature and sense of humor. The flying community has suffered a real loss
>with the un-timely death of this fine man. Godspeed Milan, I miss you.
>
>RV builders and flyers--you have a big safety advantage in not having a
>plane that will burn like a styrofoam cup.
>
>Sincerely
>Randy Simpson
>
>p.s. Since the weather was stormy behind me, I proceded on to the Alvord
>Desert after talking to the State Police, and the FAA investigators when
>they finally showed up from Portland. I had told them that Milan's wife,
>daughter, and Mother were gonna meet us at the Alvord, and where at the
>desert they'd be. Well, when I got there (a whole day later than planned,
>and a day and a half after the accident), Milan's family still hadn't been
>notified, were still waiting, and were really getting nervous. Guess who
had
>the extremely unpleasant job of telling them? Me. It was the hardest thing
>I've ever done. To top it off, it was his daughters 10th birthday that day.
>
>Please prepare and fly smart like your life depends on it...IT DOES
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M.Mckenna" <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
> << I find it's very easy to exceed the 2600 rpm
> restriction when I nose the airplane over to get my 170-180 mph entry speed.
> >>
> GEE, you would surely think that Sensenich would consider making another
> version of this propeller, without the restrictions, for our use, since the
> 0320 is still a very popular engine for the RV-series. Does anyone know if
> they have plans on doing this? Possibly they can be coerced!!
I was told by a Sensenich representative, at sun-n-fun 98,
that they planned to go back and revisit this 2600rpm
limitation on the O-320. He said they now have new, more
accurate measuring equipment and had learned a lot from
testing the O-360 prop. He also said they planned to look into
the IO-360.
Mike (Think I'll go with the much forgiving wood prop) Mckenna
RV-8 wings
Lawrenceville, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Wondering if and how many people from
the Denver area are going to Copperstate
this year???? Please reply off list
Rver273sb(at)aol.com ( Stew)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
After reading several replies to this, I think is fair to again mention that
it might have something to do with the number and kind of landings, sharp
cornering, etc. made in those two weeks. All have something to do with
squishing some of the air through that porous natural rubber which was
mentioned. If you just leave them sit after airing them up you will
probably find that they don't really leak all that much unless you do have
two leaky valve cores, which would be very coincidental..
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>I have a hard time keeping my tires inflated. I try to keep them inflated
>with 31 psi. Within two weeks time, they usually deflate to about 22 psi.
>Should I replace the inner tubes, value stems, or do something else.
>
>Ron Caldwell
>utahpilot(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Static longitudinal stability |
RV-Listers,
There was a discussion awhile back about the effect of a change of
horizontal stabilizer (HS) incidence on static longitudinal stability.
Bernie Kerr and I had a difference of opinion, and we resolved to discuss
it off line and come up with a consensus.
We concluded that my original statement was generally correct, but had an
important caveat that I should have stated. I will try to shed some light
in this message. I will give both a $0.02 and $64 versions.
The $0.02 version is that theory says that a change in HS incidence should
have no effect on static longitudinal stability, if you are operating in
part of the flight envelope where everything is "linear". The problem is
that it is hard to be 100% sure if that assumption will be true. We
recommend that you discuss any such change with Van.
The $64 dollar version - the general equations for behaviour of an aircraft
in pitch look at all the things that produce pitching moments. A moment is
a rotational force. For example, an elevator that is deflected produces a
nose up or nose down pitching moment.
September 24, 1998 - September 28, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-fm