RV-Archive.digest.vol-fn
September 28, 1998 - October 03, 1998
These equations are difficult to deal with unless they can be simplified by
making a few assumptions. Generally, it is assumed that the various parts
of the equation are linear with changes in angle of attack. Linear with
angle of attack means that if you plot the thing in question against angle
of attack, the graph makes a nice straight line. For example, if you plot
the lift from the wing against angle of attack, you see that most of the
graph is a nice straight line, until you get close to the stall.
Once you make all these assumptions, you can simplify the equations, and
then draw all sorts of conclusions. But these conclusions are only valid
as long as the assumption of linearity holds true. For example, the
airflow around the aircraft starts to do strange things close to the stall,
which is why the curve of lift versus angle of attack eventually reaches a
peak and then falls off.
Also, if there was some profile change between the HS and the elevator
(e.g. if the trailing edge of the HS skin was bent to prevent it
interfering with the elevator leading edge), this could lead to some flow
separation which would invalidate the assumption of linearity.
The bottom line is that any change that affects the external shape of the
aircraft should be carefully considered, and should be flight tested with
the same precautions as if it was a new aircraft. Van should be consulted
before any such changes.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Engineering test pilot
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>
>Subject: Re: Re[4]: RV-List: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?...
>Author: Brian Lloyd at fdinet
>Date: 28-09-98 13:48
>
>
>>
>>The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
>>1. It lags
>
>No it doesn't. An airspeed indicator responds instantaneously to
>pitot-static pressure differences modulo the mass of the pointer moving.
>The frequency response for your airspeed indicator is probably about 10 Hz,
>much faster that you can even hope to respond.
>
>>>Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
>outside world full of compressible fluid (air) and the fixed volume of the
>indicator. Response is about 2 to 3 seconds behind because of this.
We can ignore the static system because changes in static pressure are very
slow. Your point on the pitot system is interesting. I agree that, given
your points, response time will be slower than 100ms but I think it will
still be much faster than the 2-3 seconds you suggest (we never did specify
for what change in airspeed). I will devise a test and get back to you
with the results.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>
>And pitot heat isn't going to help get rid of that
>mud dauber's nest in the pitot tube that you didn't discover during
preflight.
I just remembered a pilot friend who used to blow gently into the pitot
tube while having an assistant verify that the airspeed indicator actually
moved. One day he, unthinkingly, did this with the pitot heat on. It took
him a fair bit of yelling and cussing before he could tell us what the
ruckus was all about.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
>
>I''ve just starting do some aerobatics in my RV-6A. I've got an 0320 with
160
>hp and the Sensenich Metal Fixed Prop. I've been doing Aileron Rolls and 90
>degree banking Wing Overs. I find it's very easy to exceed the 2600 rpm
>restriction when I nose the airplane over to get my 170-180 mph entry speed.
>I realize that I can throttle back and make the pitch down steeper to get the
>higher speeds but just wanted to find out if this it what others are doing or
>do you sometimes exceed 2600 rpm for a brief time (perhaps 10 seconds) prior
>to pull up and then bleeding off the rpms.
>
Ron,
I took a look at FAR 35, which has the airworthiness requirements for
propellers. There might be additional info in some advisory circular AC
35-XX, but I don't have good access to those when I am on the road.
The bottom line is that FAR 35 requires the propeller manufacturer to
ensure that there is no fatigue problem within the approved envelope, but
there is no requirement to cover anything in excess of the approved
envelope. The prop-engine combination could be fine at 2600 rpm, and
develop a catastrophic level of vibration at 2601, and that would be OK.
If you spin the prop too fast, there will be vibrations (undetectable from
the cockpit). These will eventually cause fatigue cracks and eventually
either prop blade failure, or crankshaft failure. The problem is that you
have no way of knowing how much time you can run at any given rpm. You
must understand that this is a cumulative damage issue. Just because it
was OK at 2800 rpm last week does not mean that it is guaranteed to be OK
this week.
You don't want to have a prop blade come off. That could easily tear the
engine from the mounts, which would put the CG very far aft, and you would
probably lose control of the aircraft.
My recommendation would be to keep it below 2600 rpm. If that is not
practical, you need to get a different prop.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Engineering test pilot
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: The turn-back |
RV6junkie(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Its interesting that the subject of the "turn-back" after an engine failure
> has come-up for descussion. Just two weeks ago I was curious about this very
> same topic. So I went out in my trusty RV-6 and did some experiments.
>
> Level at 3,000 feet I slowed the aircraft down to about 70 knots and chopped
> the power. I then pulled back and initiated a steep (80 plus degrees) 210
> degree turn. After reaching 210 degrees I turn back 30 degrees. I felt that
> this best simulated the turn back.
>
> Well needless to say, 70 knots is not enough speed to turn back from zero
> altitude. However, at 110 knots I was able to climb, turn and straighten-out
> in enough space and still have 50 feet of altitude. 120 knots gave a more
> comfortable margin.
>
> Gary Corde
> RV-6 N211GC - NJ
>
It is great information Gary BUT... You did do it at gross weight right?
Let me throw in another factor that I do to pilots and students and
that is to pull power when they least expect it, and even then that is not a
true condition because most student and pilots on a BFR expect some kind of
emergency landing situation at some point in the session. You are controlling
the situation in practice so you know when the engine is going to quit and can
react
almost ahead of time. Here again let me say that practice is good
and your chances are much better for having practiced. I have had a engine
failure for real and for the first few seconds you kind of sit there in disbelief
so you would probably lose your 50 ft margin.
I can't stress enough though that PRACTICE IS GOOD.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv@*getlost*ix.netcom.com remove *getlost*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
Air Speed indicator isn't that critical. The airplane never gets to look at
it anyway. If your engine is developing normal power (rpm) and you can
climb or fly level by trimming or controlling the yoke, you should be able
to control the plane. Remember, the plane NEVER gets to see the indicator.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gyro Flight Instrument
>
>>I remember one time taking off in a 182, basically by the seat off my
>>pants, after lift off looking down at the airspeed indicator only to find
>>it pegged at zero. Very unnerving. I would never run the risk no matter
>>where I was, of loosing my airspeed indicator in IFR conditions. Also,
part
>>of every pre-flight I did on this plane was to check the pitot heat
>>operation. I would never attempt an IFR flight anywhere without pitot
heat.
>
>If it isn't freezing, you aren't going to get ice on the pitot tube,
>period, end-of-report. And pitot heat isn't going to help get rid of that
>mud dauber's nest in the pitot tube that you didn't discover during
preflight.
>
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
>http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "M.Mckenna" <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net> |
Anderson Ed wrote:
> Will recheck antenna connections, although I would have thought that
an
> antenna problem would be noticable on receive as well as transmit.
Receivers are pretty forgiving about antenna, a simple 3 foot
length of wire stuck in the radio antenna connector (don't do
this) would work surprisingly well for receiving. Transmitting
requires much attention to the antenna details. Brian's
experience with his Piper Clipper is a prime and very common
example.
Mike Mckenna (mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net)
RV8 wings
Lawrenceville, Ga.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum vs Fiberglass?...) |
>
>
>Brian,
>
>Again I agree with most of what you say, and I know it is words that we are
>hanging up on here, But they are really important. It is the words that
>your instructor choose that will pop out of your mind when the horse hockey
>hits the fan. Mine said, "Fly it to the ground don't fall it to the ground"
>and preserve your assets in this order, Skin, Tin, Ticket. Having lived
>through this scenario I apologize for the passion with which I speak on this
>subject.
That's OK. I respect your passion, your reasoning, and your words.
>I am making a blanket admonition that it should not be recommended in a
>broadcast forum like this.
We are all pilots here. As pilots we are required to make decisions.
There are cases where we may live or die by our decisions. Anyone who
takes my words as gospel without going out and establishing for him/herself
whether or not he/she in his/her particular airplane can safely accomplish
a turn-back is a fool. You will notice that I am *NOT* recommending this
procedure; I am saying that, under the *PROPER* circumstances, it *MAY BE*
a viable alternative.
>I agree that if you have tried it practiced it and know absolutely in your
>mind what the parameters are regarding runway length, gross wgt, temp, wind,
>and added a margin for getting your $hit together after it happens, flying
>back to the airport may be an option for you.
And that is precisely the point I was making.
>Have you tried it in a no
>wind condition in the Tiger at gross wgt on a hot day?
Those are the conditions I used. Well, almost. I was about 150 lbs under
max gross. It was a warm summer morning at sea level.
Funny thing, the problem wasn't getting back to the airport, it was getting
the airplane stopped before I got to the end of the runway. I actually had
to slip the aircraft to kill off energy in my test case.
>I also applaud you
>for doing what would be called a take off briefing, even if you are alone.
>Very professional!
It takes time to make a decision and, at that point in the flight, i.e.
right after take-off, time is something you just haven't got. If you make
the decisions before take off you greatly reduce the response time.
>I fly at least 10 different airplanes regularly and more infrequently. I am
>not smart enough nor do I have the gas to go out and flight test each of
>these
>airplane at the corners of its envelope and at various wind directions and
>speeds. The matrix that developed would make a Part 25 takeoff performance
>chart look like child's play. If I could develop such a chart, I could never
>commit it to memory.
Well, the first question is, can this aircraft make a turn-back in the
altitude available. I'll bet you can eliminate several aircraft right
there. Some will be marginal. Only a few are likely to be able to make
the turn-back with a comfortable margin.
BTW, the wind will only affect the touchdown point, not whether you can
make it back to the runway centerline. At that point runway length becomes
the factor. I bet this could be calculated out ahead of time.
>The buggabo is this. You may go out and practice. (I applaud that!) And
>you
>may even practice at gross on that hot day I described earlier. Then you
>post your results here. Some other guy (or gal, sorry Louise & others)
>reads it and parks it in the back of his brain that "at XXXX ft I can turn
>back." Then it happens to him and POW out of the deep dark recesses of his
>scared brain comes this number. The reason why it comes out is because
>training works! You can't believe what you can remember and how well you
>can reason in a crisis if you have been trained for it. Even if that
>training was reading someone else's story on the RV-list. What he forgot
>was that you had a C/S prop pulled back and he has an aerobatic wooden one
>with climb pitch. This poor guy passes on a parking lot which means a trip
>to the garage for repair and turns back to the airport and ends up on a trip
>to the morgue. The NTSB reports are littered with fatal stall/spin
>accidents resulting from turn backs.
It happens. People do make bad decisions. That is why you MAKE THE
DECISION BEFORE PUSHING THE "GO" HANDLE. You DON'T make the decision
because some random thought pops out of the dusty recesses of your brain.
>The training has to be that the initial response is to:
>1.Fly the Airplane (lower the nose to maintain flying speed)
You would not believe how hard you have to push to maintain glide speed
when the engine quits at Vx. It is pretty close to a zero-G push.
>2. Run your emergency checklist. Which include selecting your landing site.
>(If you select a landing site that is not in view when your engine quits,
>your chances of survival are greatly diminished.)
Which checklist you run, including the one that says, "I haven't got time
to do anything at all right now except fly the plane," should be decided
ahead of time too, if possible.
>What I know (from first hand experience) is, if I fly the airplane as
>far into the crash as I can I will almost certainly live to fly again. If I
>stall/spin I will not.
We are certainly in accord here.
>(fortunately no experience here)
I have made one the-engine-is-stone-cold-dead dead-stick landing but I made
the runway, thank God.
>A controlled crash down wind dramatically reduces your survival odds.
That is a good point too. Kinetic energy is a function of the square of
the velocity so double the speed and the impact is four times worse. It is
ground speed that we are talking about here.
>I am not saying that
>there is not a set of circumstances where I might fly back and land at the
>airport. But there is no set of circumstances where I would recommend it an
>a broadcast venue such as this.
The people of this list are responsible for their own decisions. Grant
them that. It is neither yours nor my place to make any decision for them.
The most important skill for any pilot is the skill to make good
decisions. I am pointing out that there are other options that exist and
that blanket statements are rarely, if ever, true.
>In case you haven't figured out, this is a non-negotiable with me ;-) Not
>only am I a iron headed pilot, but I like you, am a warbird pilot, the very
>worst kind!
Well, I hope you practice until you get better at it! :^) :^)
Seriously, I think that this has been a good exchange. I apologize to
those of you who, long ago, said, "I wish he would shut up." Sadly, I have
never learned that skill very well.
>Still Defending "Don't Turn Back"
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal
>dougr(at)petroblend.com
>http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
I don't get to Iowa too often, but when I do (I might be flying my RV-4 to
New Jersey next week) I will stop in and we can go at this face-to-face,
perhaps over dinner and a couple of beers (at least 8 hours before flying).
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
>>>The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
>>>1. It lags
>>
>>No it doesn't. An airspeed indicator responds instantaneously to
>>pitot-static pressure differences modulo the mass of the pointer moving.
>>The frequency response for your airspeed indicator is probably about 10 Hz,
>>much faster that you can even hope to respond.
>>
>>>>Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
>>outside world full of compressible fluid (air) and the fixed volume of the
>>indicator. Response is about 2 to 3 seconds behind because of this.
>
>We can ignore the static system because changes in static pressure are very
>slow. Your point on the pitot system is interesting. I agree that, given
>your points, response time will be slower than 100ms but I think it will
>still be much faster than the 2-3 seconds you suggest (we never did specify
>for what change in airspeed). I will devise a test and get back to you
>with the results.
>
>
On business jet and airliner type aircraft, it is common to have a several
knot lag in the airspeed indicators during the take-off roll. This is
accounted for in the performance charts.
We've got a bit less volume in the pitot systems of the RV, but not as much
less as you might think. I suspect that the volume of the indicator is a
large portion of the total volume.
We should be seeing some lag in the airspeed during take-off, but I am not
sure what the significance is in this context. All you've got to compare
things to is other take-offs, and they all will have a lag, so it is not a
factor in determining whether you are accelerating normally on any given day.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Engineering test pilot
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
>
>A couple of years ago I purchased a video someone (John Ammeter?)
>made of spin testing his RV-4. The spins and recovery procedure
>appear to be quite normal, though the spin rate and nose attitude
>might be a bit different from spam cans (which I haven't spun in
>over ten years, so can't comment on). The video would be useful
>background if you plan to spin your RV-6A.
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Surrey, BC
>[-6 tail]
>
I may have sold it to you but it was made by Wes Schierman (sp?). I
only provided copying services.
It was a very enlightening video and should be must viewing by anyone
spinning an RV-4 for the first time IMHO. That said, no, I don't plan
to offer any more copies. Wes may be able to offer copies, though,
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
> I think they will (tires) last more than 400 hrs...
No flame intended so please don't be sensitive, but I am amazed to see
tire wear or longevity spoken of in terms of flight hours. Doesn't
everyone log landings in their log book...or is the hour meter the only
"logging" being done? I can go back through my log books and determine
how many carrier, FCLP, land, day, and night landings I made each
flight. I plan to log my RV time (and landings) also though I know it
is not required. Am I alone?
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
-6A Engine wiring and plumbing, tires awaiting first landing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Golden West Fly-In |
There was a good turn out of RV's on Saturday. Did anyone get a count
of how many? Most of them left Saturday evening. I think there were
only 5 or 6 when I left at noon on Sunday.
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cleveland Brakes; How to Install? |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
I am currently trying to figure out how the Cleveland Brakes fit onto the
wheel. The plans (woefully inadequate in this area, by the way) show the
brake bleed fitting on the bottom of the brake unit, which I can do on
the right brake, but it would be on top on the left brake. Is there
supposed to be a right and a left Cleveland brake? If I am looking at
this correctly, it appears that I have two right side units. Somebody
tell me I'm not crazy!
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
<< The prop-engine combination could be fine at 2600 rpm, and
develop a catastrophic level of vibration at 2601, and that would be OK. >>
Unlikely that a resonance from engine/prop would have such a high Q for this
to be possible.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
Will:
You are not alone. In 250 flying hours I have made 323 landings all
on the original tires (Condor) that were never rotated. Only have
added air 3 times in one year. Still flying on the original tires.
Come see them at Edward's Air Force Base Open House on 3 October. I
will be there with "My Sanity". I think Scott McDanniel said that it
is a factor of landing speed / technique. I only do 3 point full
stall landings.
Gary
---Will Cretsinger wrote:
>
>
> > I think they will (tires) last more than 400 hrs...
>
> No flame intended so please don't be sensitive, but I am amazed to see
> tire wear or longevity spoken of in terms of flight hours. Doesn't
> everyone log landings in their log book...or is the hour meter the
only
> "logging" being done? I can go back through my log books and
determine
> how many carrier, FCLP, land, day, and night landings I made each
> flight. I plan to log my RV time (and landings) also though I know it
> is not required. Am I alone?
>
> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
> -6A Engine wiring and plumbing, tires awaiting first landing
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gear Leg Fairings; RV-8 |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
RV-8ers;
Vans says that the gear leg fairings for the RV-8 are still being
developed, with no end in sight soon. What are those of you with RV-8s
using for fairings? I heard Tracy Saylor makes some, does anybody know
anything about these? E-mail address for him? Alternatives? Make your
own?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
riod first,
because it would seem that there would be a number of adjustments to be
made, changes to make, etc. After all the bugs are worked out would seem
like a better time to paint. Would like to hear the pros and cons from
those of you who have been there.
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
Just curious, but what are Van's recommended entry speeds? I'm out-of-town
and can't look them up but these seem awful high. My Citabria's 120mph entry
for aileron rolls works... and it bleeds energy like crazy with a
molassas-like roll rate. If you really want/need that kind of speed beware
of abrupt control inputs since you're way above Vma.
Greg Young
RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy
> hp and the Sensenich Metal Fixed Prop. I've been doing Aileron
> Rolls and 90
> degree banking Wing Overs. I find it's very easy to exceed the 2600 rpm
> restriction when I nose the airplane over to get my 170-180 mph
> entry speed.
________________________________________________________________________________
I've practised turn-backs at altitude in my Citabria, am comfortable with
aerobatics and felt pretty confident in my ability to do a turn-back from
400 ft AGL. That is until I tried a low level one this summer. I went out
to my favorite practise strip, 200' msl, 2000' grass with telephone lines on
one end and trees on the other. Oh yeah, it was 100 deg F. I took off
toward the trees, climbed at Vy and pulled the power at 400 AGL. What a
shock going from a high deck angle climb to a severe nose down turn. It
felt like the trees were in my face and took alot of concentration to keep
the nose down and airspeed up. I can see how easy it would be to succomb to
ground rush and spin in.
Then the next shock, I was too close to the runway. I was almost even with
the end of the runway after 180 degrees of turn. In all the discussions of
turn-backs I don't recall this issue being discussed. Good climbing
aircraft may have a no-win zone where they can't land on the runway ahead
nor effect a turn-back. There were still two 90 deg turns to make and tall
trees to clear to get down. I elected to continue since I had the ability
to abort (yes, I practise go-arounds too). I got it down and stopped but
used all my margin, most of the runway and scared the s**t out of myself.
Yes, the conditions were extreme and I could probably improve with practise.
But low altitude practise is risky if not dangerous and I
saw enough re-evaluate the risk/reward and raise my limit to 600' AGL. I
would suggest anyone contemplating turn-backs find a way to practise their
plan under realistic but extreme conditions before they bet their life on
it. It certainly made me rethink things.
Greg Young
RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install? |
>
>Listers;
>
>I am currently trying to figure out how the Cleveland Brakes fit onto the
>wheel. The plans (woefully inadequate in this area, by the way) show the
>brake bleed fitting on the bottom of the brake unit, which I can do on
>the right brake, but it would be on top on the left brake. Is there
>supposed to be a right and a left Cleveland brake? If I am looking at
>this correctly, it appears that I have two right side units. Somebody
>tell me I'm not crazy!
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
Simple, just move the bleed fitting to the other location.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Now or Later? |
>
>I am getting within two or three months of painting my RV-8, and can't
>decide if I should paint it while the wings are off (advantage of being
>able to take it to auto painter at less cost), or go ahead and assemble
>and fly off the test period, then go have it painted by an aircraft paint
>facility (more expensive). I tend to go with the test period first,
>because it would seem that there would be a number of adjustments to be
>made, changes to make, etc. After all the bugs are worked out would seem
>like a better time to paint. Would like to hear the pros and cons from
>those of you who have been there.
>
>Thanks.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
Were I to do it again I'd paint it before flying. I flew it with bare
metal and some primer for about a year before painting.
The only changes I had to make were adjusting the angle of the HS (and
the fiberglass fairing). It would have been much easier and cheaper
to paint it my self (or use an auto painter) if the wings were off.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hagen <chagen(at)sd.cybernex.net> |
"'kolb-list(at)matronics.com'"
| Subject: | BUILDER'S FORUM & FLY-IN, OCTOBER 10TH, TEA, SOUTH DAKOTA (EAA |
CHAPTER 289)
On October 10th (Saturday) the EAA Chapter 289 will be holding a Builder's Forum
& Fly-In.
The Forum and Fly-In will be at Great Planes Airport, Tea, South Dakota (just south
of Sioux Falls).
The program will be as follows:
Forum
Time Presenter Topic
9:00 am Gayle Wilts Aluminum construction
10:00 am Dean Libra Fiberglass construction
11:00 am Jerry Phillips Fabric construction
12:00 am Lunch
1:00 pm Larry Vetterman Exhaust, ignition, & fuel systems
2:00 pm Mark Satnan GPS & Avionics
The presenters are truly experts in their field (Gayle has built 8+ RVs! And they
are all show winners)
Aircraft Awards
Homebuilts - best metal
best fabric
best composite
Restored A/C- best metal
Best fabric
Judging and awards at 4:00 pm
Bar-B-Que starts around 5:00 pm
Some hanger accommodations are available & we have rooms blocked off at a few hotels
Days Inn (605) 361-9240
Radisson (605) 361-6684
The Forum is Free! The lunch is cheap as is the bar-b-que.
Some door prizes and eaa chapter fund raising raffles (low pressure).
Please let me know if you have any questions. Please e-mail me at
chagen(at)sd.cybernex.net
Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
> >
> >I''ve just starting do some aerobatics in my RV-6A. I've got an 0320 with
> 160
> >hp and the Sensenich Metal Fixed Prop. I've been doing Aileron Rolls and 90
> >degree banking Wing Overs. I find it's very easy to exceed the 2600 rpm
> >restriction when I nose the airplane over to get my 170-180 mph entry speed.
> >I realize that I can throttle back and make the pitch down steeper to get the
> >higher speeds but just wanted to find out if this it what others are doing or
> >do you sometimes exceed 2600 rpm for a brief time (perhaps 10 seconds) prior
> >to pull up and then bleeding off the rpms.
> >
> I fly IAC sportsman class with an RV6. It has an IO-320(160) with a Sensenich
prop. First of all, you should find some one to get some dual with. You dont
need 180mph to do acro in an RV. Most of my maneuvers are started at 140-150mph.
This gives plenty of energy without getting the controls to heavy. Also ,if
your prop is turning 2600 at 170, you need to have the prop repitched. My prop
has 81" of pitch, which is the most that this prop can be pitched to. I dont
see 2600 until Im over 200mph. This is on a stock RV6 with RV8 wheel pants.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
I have the same setup, but I don't seem to have this trouble. Is it
possible that you might be a little under-pitched? Are you descending
steeply with full throttle? I usually give it full throttle and about a
500fpm descent rate and I don't get to 2600 until about 190mph indicated.
Then again I do most of my aerobatics at 6000'+ msl due to a 2500' ground
level. If you are much lower than this you may be more prone to
overspeeding.
According to Sensenich that 2600 rpm limit is cast in stone. They do not
authorize ANY length of time above 2600 rpm. I would imagine some "fudge"
factor is included, but I don't care to find out how much... :-)
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)mci2000.com
http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>I''ve just starting do some aerobatics in my RV-6A. I've got an 0320 with
160
>hp and the Sensenich Metal Fixed Prop. I've been doing Aileron Rolls and
90
>degree banking Wing Overs. I find it's very easy to exceed the 2600 rpm
>restriction when I nose the airplane over to get my 170-180 mph entry
speed.
>I realize that I can throttle back and make the pitch down steeper to get
the
>higher speeds but just wanted to find out if this it what others are doing
or
>do you sometimes exceed 2600 rpm for a brief time (perhaps 10 seconds)
prior
>to pull up and then bleeding off the rpms.
>
>Ron Caldwell
>utahpilot(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | Golden West Fly-In |
I must have looked at about 30 RV's on Saturday. And I had at least six
ahead of me in the long line to get out of there Saturday at 5:00.
There was one really pretty blue RV-6 that really stood out
(paint-wise). I was pretty jealous, sitting in line in a rented
Cherokee, only to get passed after take-off by a couple of RV's that had
taken off behind us...
There was a Commander (I think) that had engine failure on final and
looked like it bellied in a few minutes after we landed that morning. I
looked over just a few seconds after it happened - no cloud of dust, or
anything, just the plane sitting there off to the side of the runway
while the emergency vehicles all rushed over. And then while we were
taking off to go home I saw some other plane over in a ditch tail high.
It must have happened earlier that morning. But it didn't look like
anybody got hurt on either.
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME Finishing Kit...
Pres/Newsletter Editor - Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary A. Sobek
> Sent: Monday, September 28, 1998 8:04 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Golden West Fly-In
>
>
> There was a good turn out of RV's on Saturday. Did anyone get a count
> of how many? Most of them left Saturday evening. I think there were
> only 5 or 6 when I left at noon on Sunday.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
> Flying in So. CA, USA
> RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
+AD4-The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
+AD4-1. It lags
+AD4-No it doesn't.
+AD4-Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
+AD4-outside world full of compressible fluid (air) and the fixed volume of the
+AD4-indicator. Response is about 2 to 3 seconds behind because of this.
I don't know who posted the +ACI-Yes it does+ACI- orignially, but it is wrong.
If
you are travelling fast enough to compress air in an RV . . . . . . get out
while you can (M+AD4-0.35). We tested a 250' trailing cone on a M+AD0-0.92 trailing
cone (static system) descending at +AD4-15,000 fpm, and the lag is still not
measurable.
+AD4APg-I will devise a test and get back to you with the results.
I look forward to seeing these results. Hope your equipment is high dollar
and fast.
+AD4-On business jet and airliner type aircraft, it is common to have a several
+AD4-knot lag in the airspeed indicators during the take-off roll. This is
+AD4-accounted for in the performance charts.
Yes, it is. Not that I love to bring test pilots to their senses with solid
engineering, but the reason the airspeed systems lag in business jets is due
to electronic filtering used in the air data computers and/or display tubes.
On our very fast business jet, we add about 2 knots due to a 320 msec filter
on an airplane that's accelerating at about 6 knots/sec at rotation speed.
(ps. As an added note to Kevin, this is not meant to be a cut on you. I
read a lot of erroneous information on the RV-list and is it always good to
see a message from you, knowing it's coming from another professional who
makes their living doing this sort of thing -Ron)
+AD4-We've got a bit less volume in the pitot systems of the RV, but not as much
+AD4-less as you might think. I suspect that the volume of the indicator is a
+AD4-large portion of the total volume.
Actually some of our aircraft have more and some have less. Not a factor,
though.
+AD4-We should be seeing some lag in the airspeed during take-off, but I am not
+AD4-sure what the significance is in this context. All you've got to compare
+AD4-things to is other take-offs, and they all will have a lag, so it is not a
+AD4-factor in determining whether you are accelerating normally on any given
day.
Compare+ACE- Does this look +ACI-normal+ACI-? How many pieces of information
are
telling me to stop? etc . . . . .
As for the turn back to the airport, I have three comments.
1. Bob Hoover makes his runway departures at 45 deg to the runway for a
reason (yes, he missed a dead stick landing after a misfuel incident). The
angle increases the odds of returning to the runway.
2. The +ACM-1 cause of fatal accidents AFTER an engine failure is stall/spin
(failure to maintain flying speed). As several have mentioned, it is very
difficult to lower the nose whence the ground is coming up to smite thee.
An engine failure does not cause the airplane to stall.
3. If you are going to return to the field, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE
(and not near the ground).
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
Sr. Flight Test Engineer - Major Spam
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>
>>There is no such thing as a limited IFR panel. You need all the same stuff.
>>You can limit your nav instruments if you want to limit your approaches
>>(and your costs) but if you want to fly on the clocks through clag you need
>>two sources of power for T&B and A/H, OAT, Heated pitot, lights etc etc.
>>After speaking to people who have done IFR in RVs (Fred Stucklen is a good
>>source) I decided that a wing leveller was a minimum additional requirement.
>>
>
>Per FAR 91.205, heated pitot is not an FAA requirement for IFR. I got my
>instrument and CFII ticket in an IFR 152 in Florida that did not have heated
>pitot. Granted it is a good idea, especially in the winter, but it is not a
>requirement. Nav lights are only required for night flight. Leave them off
>and you can still fly IFR day. An OAT gauge is also not required.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
Scott,
I was not quoting FARs as I do not have to comply with them (We have ANOs).
I was quoting a personal opinion. My opinion is that there is no such thing
as limited IFR. I have taken off into stuff where the forecast implied I
would climb through and land clear and instead spent a couple of heavy duty
hours in cloud with embedded TS. I looked at making my aircraft "just IFR"
and decided that it was a trap. I have tried to make it true IFR capable
including the S-TEC autopilot.
Again the above is my opinion not regulation.
Cheers,
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
<< I am amazed to see
tire wear or longevity spoken of in terms of flight hours. Doesn't
everyone log landings in their log book...or is the hour meter the only
"logging" being done? >>
In California we measure our tire wear in flight hours because most of the
wear occurs due to the friction of flying thru the smog from all those out of
state cars. Everyone must come here for the cheese.
-GV (Welcome to California, now go home!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)pec.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rear Spar |
steffco1(at)email.msn.com wrote:
> While on the subject of the rear wing spar is there anything that would
> prevent me from cutting & fitting the flap brace at this point as, "I am
> assembling the rear spars". It seems that it would be easier at this point
> rather than later once the spar is in the jig "and working from beneath"
> as
> per the manual.
I don't think you can measure it properly until you've got the bottom
skin on.
Anyway, you can do the rear spar work (attaching flap and aileron)
after removing the wing from the jig.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | More Mountain Valleys |
Hi Flatlanders -
My previous post generated several responses about turning around in
mountain valleys. Those posts, and also this one, discuss situations that
you would not normally encounter as a Flatlander tourist flying in the
mountains.
You will have a pleasant flight over our western mountains when the winds
aloft are light and the weather good. The only reason to come down into a
mountain valley is to land at a airport or if you are forced down into a
valley by un-forcast weather.
If the ceiling gets low in the mountains - follow low ground away from the
weather system to the nearest airport.
Enroute; Never-Never enter unfamiliar mountain passes unless there is
adequate room to turn around, - you must be able to see completely through
the pass and see lower and wider ground on the far side. Before entering
any pass or narrow area circle around climbing as high as possible, look
into the pass and asses the situation, - you must be able to see completly
through the pass to lower ground on the far side prior to entering. Note
that this life extending rule eliminates all narrow passes that have major
turns, there may be a solid wall of cloud (or rock) around that narrow
bend!
Stay to the side of a canyon to give yourself more room to turn around.
Don't cut corners in canyons, you may be turning into a narrower part of
the canyon.
If a canyon has a left turn ahead stay right, asses the canyon beyond the
turn before committing yourself. Being on the "outside" of the turn will
give more time for assesment and it is easier to continue the turn 180
degrees and get out.
Naturally in situations like this you will not be rocketing along at 160
knots. You may have the flaps down to improve over the nose visability. If
following a road/railroad partly hidden by tall trees and your aircraft
nose you will wish the wings were on top.
When departing a airport in a mountain valley circle in the wide valley to
enroute altitude, never try to climb out a unfamiliar side canyon. Entering
a narrow canyon brings into play a major shortcoming in the human
visual-judgement system, - after loosing the normal horizon reference in
the canyon, everyone looses' the ability to judge if the valley floor ahead
is level or sloping upwards at at a angle that exceeds the maxiumum climb
angle of the aircraft.
Results are nicely summed up by another post with the statement "mountain
four USAF zero".
Another problem Flatlanders will encounter initially, is judging distance
from mountains and canyon walls. It has been my experience that Flatlanders
will err on the safe side by a wide margin and feel that the wingtips are
scrapeing the valley sides when the valley is still one or two miles wide.
As for turning around in a mountain valley, some of the previous posts on
this subject may be technically correct but miss the point. The only reason
to be down in the mountain valley is weather. If the vis is down you will
probably be operating at low speed with the flaps down to improve over the
nose visability, if the ceiling is low you would be close to the cloud base
eliminating any vertical maneuvering.
Been down there, done that.
George McNutt -6A
Langley, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com> |
+AD4-The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
+AD4-1. It lags
+AD4-No it doesn't.
+AD4-Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
+AD4-outside world full of compressible fluid (air)----
The following is just a guess and you test types can set me straight:
I can visualize some lag when the pitot lines are close to ambient pressure
however at 280 knots indicated I have observed the airspeed needle move
awfully fast in moderate turbulence. I would guess that a pressure change
(or pulse) in the pitot system probably travels at the same speed as sound.
Guessing again
George McNutt 6A
Langley B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Lag |
George McNutt
Yes, the higher the speed the faster the reading as the density in the
pitot line increases. To move the pointer in the Airspeed indicator
(assuming a mechanical device) you must displace a volume of air in
the indicator to achieve a reading, the inital pulse arrives at the
speed of sound, the volume arrives at a much slower pace as it must
contend with the restriction of the pitot entrance and the wall losses
(drag) of the tube feeding the indicator. Electronic transmitters
(generally) have a smaller swept volume and will therefore respond
faster.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: RV-List: Airspeed Lag
Date: 29-09-98 04:50
+AD4-The limitation of the airspeed indicator is :
+AD4-1. It lags
+AD4-No it doesn't.
+AD4-Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
+AD4-outside world full of compressible fluid (air)----
The following is just a guess and you test types can set me straight:
I can visualize some lag when the pitot lines are close to ambient pressure
however at 280 knots indicated I have observed the airspeed needle move
awfully fast in moderate turbulence. I would guess that a pressure change
(or pulse) in the pitot system probably travels at the same speed as sound.
Guessing again
George McNutt 6A
Langley B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louise Coats <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
Will:
RVL has 280.7 hr, 692 successful landings. Original tyres, not rotated,
regular air fills required as tyres do not stay up. First flight April
1995. Grass airstrips the norm and 3 point landings attempted!
>Will:
>
>You are not alone. In 250 flying hours I have made 323 landings all
>on the original tires (Condor) that were never rotated. Only have
>added air 3 times in one year. Still flying on the original tires.
>Come see them at Edward's Air Force Base Open House on 3 October. I
>will be there with "My Sanity". I think Scott McDanniel said that it
>is a factor of landing speed / technique. I only do 3 point full
>stall landings.
>
>Gary
>
>---Will Cretsinger wrote:
>
>> > I think they will (tires) last more than 400 hrs...
>>
>> No flame intended so please don't be sensitive, but I am amazed to see
>> tire wear or longevity spoken of in terms of flight hours. Doesn't
>> everyone log landings in their log book...or is the hour meter the
>only
>> "logging" being done? I can go back through my log books and
>determine
>> how many carrier, FCLP, land, day, and night landings I made each
>> flight. I plan to log my RV time (and landings) also though I know it
>> is not required. Am I alone?
>>
>> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
>> -6A Engine wiring and plumbing, tires awaiting first landing
>==
>Gary A. Sobek
>"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>Flying in So. CA, USA
>RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
>
L Coats ZK-RVL 278hr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
You guys might want to change the thread subject. You've been off
the original subject for some time. Some good discussion has been
done here and could get lost in the archives.
Jim Sears in KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Thanks Brian,
Even thought the Antenna is brand new, there could be an installation
problem. I will check it out this week end. It is just frustrating to
pay $$$ for a radio that no one can understand you on (realize it may
not be the radio's fault).
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> A new antenna fixed the problem. No, the receive did not appear to be
> significantly affected (but the receiver did sound better with the new
> antenna).
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Thanks Mike, will check out antenna this weekend.
Ed
M.Mckenna wrote:
>
> -
>
> Receivers are pretty forgiving about antenna,
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Gear Leg Fairings; RV-8 |
<< RV-8ers;
Vans says that the gear leg fairings for the RV-8 are still being
developed, with no end in sight soon. What are those of you with RV-8s
using for fairings? I heard Tracy Saylor makes some, does anybody know
anything about these? E-mail address for him? Alternatives? Make your
own?
Von Alexander >>
Von, and listers:
I also make 1-pc fiberglass gear leg fairings to fit the RV series. You will
se a set of my fairings on Dick Collianders' -8 on the cover of the RV-ator. I
have sold many sets of these to many listers, so references will be available
online. I am helping Mark Goldberg work thru the install on his -8 now, so the
exact installation procedure will be worked out soon. I also expect to have
upper and lower intersection fairings available for the -8 sometime after the
GLF install is complete.
Email me off-list with any questions you may have.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Lag |
+AD4- Yes, the higher the speed the faster the reading as the density in the
+AD4- pitot line increases. To move the pointer in the Airspeed indicator
+AD4- (assuming a mechanical device) you must displace a volume of air in
+AD4- the indicator to achieve a reading, the inital pulse arrives at the
+AD4- speed of sound, the volume arrives at a much slower pace as it must
+AD4- contend with the restriction of the pitot entrance and the wall losses
+AD4- (drag) of the tube feeding the indicator. Electronic transmitters
+AD4- (generally) have a smaller swept volume and will therefore respond
+AD4- faster.
What you say is true, but I doubt that can be measured on takeoff (and many
other regimes). I have worked a couple air data systems for the Big B (but
both of these were on little vehicles). The first is a Caproni glider. We
would dive the thing straight at the ground from a couple thousand feet up
(testing some electronics in the passenger seat). These gliders were
designed (and certified) to not exceed Vne (redline) in a 90 deg dive with
the speed brakes out. We mounted a static system in the tail, and it would
lag noticably (a couple hundred feet). The other was a spherical 5 hole
probe (airspeed, altitude, AOA and sideslip) on an UNSTABLE drone that used
air data to keep the pointy end forward. With 20+- feet of 1/32 inch tube,
we maintained frequency responce at over 15 Hz while flying in rain/freezing
rain. Yes, I could make money selling these things, and it wouldn't look
ugly or get damaged easily on an RV (plus, as someone else mentioned before,
probes just look cool).
+AD4-I can visualize some lag when the pitot lines are close to ambient pressure
+AD4-however at 280 knots indicated I have observed the airspeed needle move
+AD4-awfully fast in moderate turbulence
I would guess that's friction within the airspeed indicator, and the higher
delta P helps. There is very little flow in any airspeed system, and the
replenish rate at 120 knots is great.
Love my job,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
<< I was told by a Sensenich representative, at sun-n-fun 98,
that they planned to go back and revisit this 2600rpm
limitation on the O-320. He said they now have new, more
accurate measuring equipment and had learned a lot from
testing the O-360 prop. He also said they planned to look into
the IO-360. >>
If true, this is indeed good news, especially if the outcome is a higher
redline. I believe the Sensenich is pitched high to make best use of the 2600
rpm's in cruise, but gives up a bit in the static and climb department as a
result. If the higher redline is approved, I'd consider having my prop
repitched to let the O-320 "have her head" in 75% cruise, and that would
certainly liberate a few badly needed ponies during take-off and climb-out
that are presently locked in the barn.
As for over-limit operation, this has certainly happened to me a few times.
2620 is the highest I've seen, and happens at max cruise when the nose lowers
just a tad. I get a nice red warning light (Master Caution feature of the
Grand Rapids EIS) but all I usually do is pull slight back pressure. If after
five seconds or so the rpm is still high, I dial back the throtle vernier.
The supposed problem with the prop is fatigue from adverse resonances above
2600 rpm, so while it is not prudent to rack up a lot of time above 2600, I
don't expect the prop blades to depart the hub the first time 2610 is
dsisplayed on the tach and I don't panic when it happens.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 30 hrs.
Now working on the home runway. An RV in a gusting crosswind is cake compared
to a bulldozer...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Utahpilot(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
<< I fly IAC sportsman class with an RV6. It has an IO-320(160) with a
Sensenich prop. First of all, you should find some one to get some dual with.
You dont need 180mph to do acro in an RV. Most of my maneuvers are started at
140-150mph. This gives plenty of energy without getting the controls to heavy.
Also ,if your prop is turning 2600 at 170, you need to have the prop
repitched. My prop has 81" of pitch, which is the most that this prop can be
pitched to. I dont see 2600 until Im over 200mph. This is on a stock RV6 with
RV8 wheel pants.
>>
Yes, I have received dual aerobatic instruction but I don't believe my
instructor was aware of the 2600 rpm restriction. I suspect that your right
about my entry speeds being to high. I will try some aileron rolls at 140-150
mph. Regarding my prop's pitch. It's currently pitched at 79. Will
repitching it to 81 slow down my cruise speeds in straight and level flight?
Because of our high evelations here, I do acro's between the 8000 and 9000
ft? This gives me a good safety margin about 4000 agl. My airplane gets
only 2550 rpm with full throttle at straight and level flight. Does this seem
about right? On average, my ground speeds on a no wind day at altitude are
about 185-190 mph.
Ron Caldwell
utahpilot(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
Cy wrote:
<< Air Speed indicator isn't that critical. The airplane never gets to look
at
it anyway. If your engine is developing normal power (rpm) and you can
climb or fly level by trimming or controlling the yoke, you should be able
to control the plane. Remember, the plane NEVER gets to see the indicator.
>>
Yeah, but you have to admit that at least some of us would find it spooky to
fly a pattern and land with no ASI information. (GPS would be some help, but
could kill you if you didn't take winds aloft into account and got too slow on
final). There is no way I would try to land at the short turf strip at home
with unreliable or absent ASI. If I found myself airborne with a mud dauber
in my pitot, I'd head for the nearest LONG runway to set her down and rectify
the problem. And I'd still be nervous about letting the flaps out above the
white arc. The plane never sees the indicator, but it sees the air flow. The
pilot never feels the wind in his face, but the ASI was made to be seen by the
pilot, and for good reason.
-BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install? |
You can reverse the fittings so that the bleeder comes out on the bottom of
wherever you mount it.
-----Original Message-----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 11:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install?
>
>Listers;
>
>I am currently trying to figure out how the Cleveland Brakes fit onto the
>wheel. The plans (woefully inadequate in this area, by the way) show the
>brake bleed fitting on the bottom of the brake unit, which I can do on
>the right brake, but it would be on top on the left brake. Is there
>supposed to be a right and a left Cleveland brake? If I am looking at
>this correctly, it appears that I have two right side units. Somebody
>tell me I'm not crazy!
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The turn-back |
In a message dated 9/28/98 10:28:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jsflyrv@*getlost*ix.netcom.com writes:
<< You did do it at gross weight right?
Let me throw in another factor that I do to pilots and students and
that is to pull power when they least expect it, and even then that is not a
true condition because most student and pilots on a BFR expect some kind of
emergency landing situation at some point in the session. >>
Good points. I was not at gross but about 1,450. As far as the power chop, I
waited 3 seconds (one one thousand two one thousand....) before starting the
turnback to simulate the "what-the-heck-just-happened" factor.
Gary Corde
RV6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
<< >>Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
>outside world full of compressible fluid (air) and the fixed volume of the
>indicator. Response is about 2 to 3 seconds behind because of this. >>
I suppose I'll weigh in here with $.02. No doubt the VSI has just such a
delay, because of the restrictor orifice designed into the instrument itself,
which allows it to display rate-of-change, although not in real time. The ASI
should not be similarly limited. The mass of the pointer and bellows/gears is
doubtless the largest contributor to mechanical lag.
The plumbing to the instrument from the pitot should transmit pressure
information at mach 1.0, which traverses the distance from the pitot to the
panel in a few milliseconds. There is some damping from friction losses in
the piping, which rise inversely with the 4th power of the radius, but since
the "current" flow in the system is small (the change in volume of the bellows
from one airspeed/pitot pressure increment to the next) this is essentially a
"voltage" system (high impedance, if you will) and I think it will respond and
dampen quickly. I'll predict Brian's experiment yields a response time too
rapid to detect by eye alone, on the order of 1/10th of a second. Hey- I've
got an electronic ASI in addition to the analog one, so what do I care
anyway?!
-BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
Speaking of Copperstate, is there going to be an informal RV'rs dinner? I
heard something about Friday night 10/9 but I know Van's isn't sponsoring
one. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 5:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: copperstate
>
>Wondering if and how many people from
>the Denver area are going to Copperstate
>this year???? Please reply off list
>Rver273sb(at)aol.com ( Stew)
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 09/26/98 |
| From: | Watson(at)earthlink.net, Bill <wmwatson(at)earthlink.net> |
>From: RClayp5888(at)aol.com
>Subject: RV-List: Navaid Ap-1servo installation
>
>
>I am installing a Navaid autopilot in my 6A. Does anyone have any suggestions
>where they would install the servo? Bob Claypool RV6A finishing kit, Fresno,
>CA
I just finished installing it in the right wing. I only purchased the
servo for now. It look much longer than I thought. I made the mounting
tray/frame per the dwg. NAVAID supplied, but I did not follow their
suggested bellcrank assy. Instead, I made a new bellcrank and added
fingers extending outward in the position where the spacer is located per
Van's plans. The servo is accessable through the inboard inspection
hole. The arm is fairly short and runs freely, mounted to the "fingers.".
BTW. I had to take the servo arm off and remount rotated 180 deg.
Beware, as none of this has flown (a few years) yet.
Bill Watson
RV-6A Fuse jig
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chat Daniel" <cdaniel(at)fnbbaldwin.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install? |
Von...
Just did the same thing. I finally figured out that all you have to do is
change the fittings on one of your brakes so that the "feed and bleed" are
correctly oriented.
Chat Daniel
RV-8 678RV (reserved)
----------
> From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install?
> Date: Monday, September 28, 1998 11:08 PM
>
>
> Listers;
>
> I am currently trying to figure out how the Cleveland Brakes fit onto the
> wheel. The plans (woefully inadequate in this area, by the way) show the
> brake bleed fitting on the bottom of the brake unit, which I can do on
> the right brake, but it would be on top on the left brake. Is there
> supposed to be a right and a left Cleveland brake? If I am looking at
> this correctly, it appears that I have two right side units. Somebody
> tell me I'm not crazy!
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
Not suppose to do a Me too but I was also wondering about just how many
takeoffs/landings for a normal set of tires.
800 hours in my Nissan and I normally need tires, but then again that is mostly
taxieing down HWY58 or I15
I though Oregon said come visit, now go home (After leaving our money)
I moved to the High Desert to get out of smog, I walk out my front door and I'm
at
2100ft.
I'm moving to mexico when they open the borders. Almost are now.
Gordon
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << I am amazed to see
> tire wear or longevity spoken of in terms of flight hours. Doesn't
> everyone log landings in their log book...or is the hour meter the only
> "logging" being done? >>
>
> In California we measure our tire wear in flight hours because most of the
> wear occurs due to the friction of flying thru the smog from all those out of
> state cars. Everyone must come here for the cheese.
>
> -GV (Welcome to California, now go home!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
>It should be noted that the RV-4 and the RV-6 do not have the same
>spin charactoristics.
>John Ammeter
>Seattle WA
OK, I'll ask the question that will bug me until I figure it out.... What
makes the -6's spin more agressively then the -4's (and -3's and -8's, too I
assume???) The -4's and -6's share similar wingspan, length, stabilizers,
etc... Or do they?
Any thoughts? Inquiring minds want to know.....
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Skinning wings, drilling fuel tanks
LANDING LIGHTS COMPLETE!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
>
>As for over-limit operation, this has certainly happened to me a few times.
>2620 is the highest I've seen, and happens at max cruise when the nose lowers
>just a tad. I get a nice red warning light (Master Caution feature of the
>
According to an early RVator, the unacceptable vibration mode for the
Sensenich O-320 prop kicked in at 2650 rpm. 2600 rpm was set as the limit
because of the inherent inaccuracies in many mechanical tachometers.
Mark Nielsen
RV-6; 280 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
> Cy wrote:
>
> << Air Speed indicator isn't that critical. The airplane never gets to
look
> at it anyway
BB wrote:
> Yeah, but you have to admit that at least some of us would find it spooky
to
> fly a pattern and land with no ASI information.
I write:
Another good reason for an angle of attack indicator ; )
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Flying |
>Enroute; Never-Never enter unfamiliar mountain passes unless there is
>adequate room to turn around, - you must be able to see completely through
>the pass and see lower and wider ground on the far side. Before entering
>any pass or narrow area circle around climbing as high as possible, look
>into the pass and asses the situation, - you must be able to see completly
>through the pass to lower ground on the far side prior to entering.
I learned mountain flying in Montana in a 65 horsepower Cub. THAT helped me
develop a healthy respect for The Rocks. I now fly the Dash Four in the
mountains as if it had the same power; i.e., I don't plan on the power I now
have getting me out of any situation. You can get into downdrafts that the
airplane can't climb out of, regardless of how much power you have. Always
have an out. All the airplane may be good for sometimes is a place to sit
while the air takes you where it wants, with you showing it where you would
like to be.
Also, approach ANY pass at a 45 degree or so angle so you have less of a
turn to make to get out of trouble should it occur. That trouble is usually
unexpected down air ('red' air). And always be LOOKING at where you are
going to go (as stated above) and where you may have to go unexpectedly:
back behind you. Where are you turning back to? Is there room? Will it still
be a safe turn if I am going down in a hurry? If it doesn't look/feel/seem
right, don't do it. Wishing will not work in The Rocks.
I was once on the way to West Yellowstone from north of Cody, WY and was
soaring up the north wall of a pass, sometimes seeing 2000 fpm climb in the
Cub. It was a good day for mountain flying: gentle winds, good updrafts on
the canyon walls. I was just about to crest the pass, still going up with a
good view of the other side, still on the upwind side, not at the pass yet,
when, in an instant, I was being shoved DOWN so fast fuel was coming out of
the nose tank. Now what do you do? Turn away, left, where I had been
watching if I needed to go there, into the big canyon I had been following.
Down, down, down, until I scooted back near the north wall (knowing the
south wall probably had down air), into all that 'green' (up) air again and
OUT of the valley, thank you very much. Didn't really need to go to West
Yellowstone that day, anyway. Didn't like the feeling, meeting those
completly unexpected winds. Flew around in the plains for a while. Still was
a good day to fly.
>Another problem Flatlanders will encounter initially, is judging distance
>from mountains and canyon walls. It has been my experience that Flatlanders
>will err on the safe side by a wide margin and feel that the wingtips are
>scrapeing the valley sides when the valley is still one or two miles wide.
Sometimes the best lift from a canyon wall is within several wingspan
distance from terra firma. Unless you are used to it, and even if you are,
that LOOKS REALLY CLOSE. You have to have practiced it (there's that word
again), preferably with an instructor, and be used to flying that close to
The Rocks. You REALLY have to be paying attention; head-out-of-the-cockpit
flying. My rate of climb is top right on the panel where the altimeter
usually is as I like the instant reference (discounting lag; see other
posts) of what the airplane is doing up and down while in the mountains. But
just a glance usually confirms what you are seeing OUTSIDE. The horizon is
not there for reference. Yet another reason for KNOWING YOUR AIRPLANE.
Best advice for anyone, including non-flatlanders, for mountain flying: take
a course. The Colorado Pilots Association (P.O. Box 200911, Denver CO 80220)
puts on mountain flying workshops and there are several available by private
instructors. There is a publication High Mountain Flying through the U.S.
Government printing office: Publication number 1992-837-602. There are
several good books available, also. Mountain Flying by Sparky Imeson may be
one of the best (Airguide Publications). Instruction is still the best (you
can READ about doing surgery; don't try it at home).
Oh, yeah: and get to know your airplane.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Taming the bear............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
RV-6 Fuselage is wider effecting the torque and slipstream differently.
Thats my WAG.
Gordon
Jon Elford wrote:
>
> >It should be noted that the RV-4 and the RV-6 do not have the same
> >spin charactoristics.
>
> >John Ammeter
> >Seattle WA
>
> OK, I'll ask the question that will bug me until I figure it out.... What
> makes the -6's spin more agressively then the -4's (and -3's and -8's, too I
> assume???) The -4's and -6's share similar wingspan, length, stabilizers,
> etc... Or do they?
>
> Any thoughts? Inquiring minds want to know.....
>
>
> >
> >
> Jon Elford
> RV6 #25201
> Banks, OR
> Skinning wings, drilling fuel tanks
> LANDING LIGHTS COMPLETE!!!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Golden West Fly-In |
My guess is about 40 if you include the 6 HR2s and the IO 540 powered
"Super Six". A good event for a first attempt, especially considering the
iffy weather on Saturday. The turnout on friday was almost as large.
Cumulative total may have been over 50 as quite a few folks left very early
on saturday to beat the weather.
BTW saw GV's exceptional -6A for the first time; congrats on a really nice
airplane.
Mike WIlls
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>
>There was a good turn out of RV's on Saturday. Did anyone get a count
>of how many? Most of them left Saturday evening. I think there were
>only 5 or 6 when I left at noon on Sunday.
>
>==
>Gary A. Sobek
>"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
>Flying in So. CA, USA
>RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Left Elevator & Trim Tab (RV-6) |
I'm a little nervous about some things related to trim tab position
versus the elevator - and sequence of actions - and thought I'd send out
this "sanity check" e-mail before proceeding.
First, the trim tab skin has been drilled to bottom flange of its spar
and ears bent (successfully) on both ends. So, length of trim tab is
set - haven't pop riveted the ears but the bends are crisp and 90
degrees and I taped them so length is accurate when held in alignment
with elevator for preliminary evaluation of fit.
I clamped 18 inch steel ruler flush with inboard (root) end of elevator
top skin and laid a full length (36"?) piece of stiffener angle
under/along trailing edge of elevator - then laid trim tab in position
(slid outboard of trim tab between/inside the unbent elevator skin
"ears"): With trim tab accurately aligned with elevator at trailing
edge and inboard edge, I have a 1/4 inch gap between top skins of elev
and trim tab (drawing shows about 1/8); the outboard edge of trim tab,
looking its forward outboard corner, is exactly even with the outboard
end of the span-wise notch in the pre-cut/pre-punched elevator skin's
top "ear" that is to be bent down - which means that if I bent the tab
as far outboard as possible now, that I'd have zero end clearance
between tab and elevator, so, to get the "1/8 inch min" dimension called
out in the drawing, I have to extend that notch outboard by 1/8 + maybe
1/32 for bend radius of top ear.
I plan to extend the notch by drilling a 1/8 or so dia hole and
trim into the hole with snips. There is plenty of room in the "relief"
cut at trailing edge of elevator - don't have to extend that pre-cut
area at all.
I'm curious if this sounds reasonable to other builders. I checked
the dimensions of the trim tab and it is exactly the size called in the
drawing detail. There is no detail showing how the elevator skin "ear"
was laid out so cannot tell if mine was cut "wrong" - I doubt it, so
suspect that other builders of Jan 1997 prepunched empennage kits may
have seen something similar to what I'm seeing.
Next "sanity check" thing is the hinge "edge distance" and sequence of
drilling hinge to trim tab's top skin leading edge and elevator top skin
trailing edge. The overall width of hinge is 1 1/16 inches, with the
hinge "flanges" on each side of hinge pin area being 3/8 inch, so
drawing a 3/16 centerlines on each side will center the rivets at the
absolute minimum edge distance for 3/32 rivets with no slop on either
side of centerlines.
Given the 1/4 inch gap between elevator and trim tab skins, there will
be a total of 13/16 inch of hinge under the skins - 6.5/16 (13/32) each
side. The prepunched holes are 7/32 from edges of those skins, meaning
I will have exactly 6/32 or 3/16 of hinge extending beyond centerline of
those pre-punched holes, the exact minimum edge distance for 3/32
rivets.
So, having said all the above, I think the only problem was: I was
spooked by the "1/8 gap" the drawing shows between elevator trailing
edge and trim tab leading edge. Looks like 1/4" is exactly correct to
1) center rivets on hinge material and 2) line up with the pre-punched
skin holes and 3) have the trim tab aligned with trailing edge of
elevator.
If the gap would have been any less, then the rivets in each half
of hinge would have been less than perfect from hinge pin sides of
halves.
I was also slightly spooked by having to trim the elevator ears
outboard before bending so as to have 1/8 inch clearance between
elevator and trim tab - but that's not too scary.
Now, how do I drill all this stuff together so it works out? I think
I'll start with the hinge (I've never taken it apart and don't see any
need to) and trim tab's skin, without spar, clamp the hinge with
outboard end flush with trim tab skin and the 3/16 centerline exactly
centered in skin holes and drill the two end holes, then remove the
hinge and do the same with the spar (cleco'd to bottom and then clamped
flush with forward edge of top skin) - again, just drill the two end
holes. Then cleco the hinge under the spar at these two end holes in
assembly with the trim tab skin - then drill and cleco the remaining
holes in spar and hinge "in assembly" - and remove the inboard end cleco
and redrill that hole "in assembly" to assure it is OK.
I think it is now OK to debur, then countersink top of spar - then rivet
trim tab's bottom skin to spar, so won't have clecos down there
interfering with lying flat on table when fitting to elevator later.
Then, with trim tab riveted on bottom and cleco'd on top, and with
elevator's end tabs/ears not yet folded up and down, slide the trim tab
in between elevator tabs/ears, align with trailing edge and inboard edge
(again using 18" ruler clamped flush to inboard edge and long straight
angle on trailing edge). Clamp hinge (under rear spar) to elevator skin
- at inboard end which is all I can reach, with hinge's 3/16 centerline
centered perfectly in top skin and spar flange holes. Use duct tape and
tape "simulated skins" strips (used previously to center ribs on spars)
to top (and bottom?) of elevator and trim tab to hold the outboard end
aligned so hinge centerline is centered in skin and spar holes. Since
can't really clamp securely at outboard end, start drilling and
cleco'ing (through elevator skin and rear spar) into hinge at inboard
end, where hinge is clamped strongly, and work outboard, continuously
keeping hinge's 3/16 inch centerline centered in skin/spar holes. The
previously measure 1/4 inch gap ought to be there and inboard end and
trailing edge ought to be aligned.
Then go through Builder's Manual routine for checking/squeezing tab into
final shape and riveting its top skin and then the end tabs.
Then bend elevator's end tabs/ears and rivet.
Then rivet trim tab forward hinge half to elevator and be done with trim
tab.
If I understand the Van's Manual and drawings adequately, I hope that
the preceding is "What the captain meant to say . . ." Any corrections,
suggestions of easier more accurate way, etc, or "watch out!"s, will be
appreciated.
David Carter, RV-6 left elevator, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
There has been for the last 2 years that Ive gone to Copperstate. Its been
held at the Italian restaurant right off the airport. I believe its
organized by some of the locals. See ya there!
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>
>Speaking of Copperstate, is there going to be an informal RV'rs dinner? I
>heard something about Friday night 10/9 but I know Van's isn't sponsoring
>one. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install? |
Hi all,
I've done hundreds of brake jobs on all kinds of weird sports cars and yet I
found the Cleveland brake installation a little puzzling. I'm glad to hear
someone else did too.
I do believe that some documentation on brakes and tires would be nice. They
ARE a part of the kit. I suppose the cost of the kit would go up maybe $1.98 if
there were adequate documentation. :~[
hal
> >I am currently trying to figure out how the Cleveland Brakes fit onto the
> >wheel. The plans (woefully inadequate in this area, by the way) show the
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Lag |
>+AD4-On business jet and airliner type aircraft, it is common to have a
several
>+AD4-knot lag in the airspeed indicators during the take-off roll. This is
>+AD4-accounted for in the performance charts.
>
>Yes, it is. Not that I love to bring test pilots to their senses with solid
>engineering, but the reason the airspeed systems lag in business jets is due
>to electronic filtering used in the air data computers and/or display tubes.
>On our very fast business jet, we add about 2 knots due to a 320 msec filter
>on an airplane that's accelerating at about 6 knots/sec at rotation speed.
You are right. I had forgot about the air data computer (ADC) and display
lags. That will teach me to reply late at night :-)
The laws of physics say there will be some lag even without ADCs or
electronic displays. I will defer to your expertise as to how much that
lag would be, and whether it is small enough to be negligible.
Take care,
Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
> Blah ba Blah wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello; I have been trying to find information on concial versus
> > dynofocial engine mounts. I couldn't find much information in the
> > archives . I know everyone has a opinion, but I would like to hear
from
> > people who have actual experience in RVs with both type of mounts.
I am
> > only concerned with the vibration and what it will do to the
airframe. It
> > seems to be easier to find used engines that are conical mounts,
because
> > they are older? Any help would be appreicated. David Ahrens RV-6A
My O-320 powered RV-6 has conical mounts. It has less vibration than
a friends O-360 dynafocal mount. IMHO, I have less vibration than any
4 cylinder aircraft that I have flown in the last 16 years. No I have
not paid the $90 it costs to get the prop balanced. The conical mount
bushings cost $20 to $25 compared to the several hundred dollar cost
of the dynafocal. You will not be able to tell the difference. If
you buy a conical mount and really want dynafocal, check with some of
the engine shops. While I was rebuilding mine, I had found one that
charged $275 to convert the conical to dynafocal. Do not remember the
outfit.
I am VERY Happy with my conical mount. It has flown very well for the
250 hours during the last year.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
Also, the canopy shape is different, producing lift/drag differently.
Sylvain
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:41:42 -0700
From: Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spins
RV-6 Fuselage is wider effecting the torque and slipstream differently.
Thats my WAG.
Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ACCPILOT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
Listers,
I dont want to start a flame war here, but I was at a fly-in in Colorado last
year when a guy came up and started asking me how I like the Sensenich prop
(even tho it is on a T-18 I think it still useful information). As we talked
he told me that he help do some of the enginering on that prop (we have a
160hp 0-320) and that they didn't find hardly and thing bad about the
vibration, and that the little they did find was after 2700 rpms. He could
have been some goof of the street but he did seem to know a lot about props,
and he did give me his card and it had something to do with aerospace
enginering. I am not going to go out and try spinnnig that thing up to 2900
rpms just to see if it can do it, but I think the safety margin is much higher
than 50 rpms, we now have a digital tach and it show that we are about 150
rpms different from the mechanical one.
BTW I am going to the balloon fiesta in Abl. NM. at the end of the week and if
there is anyone who wants to show off the project I would be happy to come by
and look at it.
Tony Cochran
T-18 Driver
Broomfield CO.
RV-6 want-a-be
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
The following is a reply I received from Sensenich back in January when I
asked them about why the 0-360 prop did not have the same RPM restriction as
the 0-320 prop. I also asked if any further testing would be done on the
0-320 prop. Anyway, if the limit was raised, all bets would be off above
2800 RPM (100 RPM above rated speed of the engine).
Jerry Isler
RV-4 #1060
Donalsonville, Ga.
My name is Buddy Sessoms. I am the other engineer at Sensenich. Ken is
away on a business trip so I will answer your questions.
You are correct in your assertion that the O-360 is harder on props than the
O-320. The 72FM (O-360 prop) is an entirely new design with a completely
different thickness distribution than anything Sensenich has made
previously. This resulted in acceptable stresses on the O-360. The 70CM
(O-320 prop) unfortunately did not have acceptable stresses above 2700 RPM.
Due to variances of up to 200 RPM in tachometers a placard was placed at
2600 RPM. So make sure you tachometer is calibrated.
Fortunately, we have better test equipment now and will retest the 70CM in
late 1998. This new prop testing combined with fatigue testing that Alcoa
will do in February will probably result in a clean propeller operating
range. The new fatigue testing should allow us to raise our stress
allowables.
As far as the current limit is concerned, it truly has little to do will
actual flying. The few RVs I have flown in have their props pitched such
that going above 2600 is very hard to do unless the nose is pointed down.
You can even do aerobatics according to Van's RVator instructions without
exceeding 2600 RPM.
Unless you will be doing a lot of aerobatics you will not see the 2600 RPM
limit restricting your enjoyment of flight. You can always do the
occasional roll and even loops, with PROPER throttle control.
If you have decided on a fixed pitch prop the benefits of a metal prop over
a wood prop will outweigh any slight limitation that exists with the 2600
RPM placard.
Above all, you must remember that ALL metal props have an unwritten placard
at the engine redline. Just because the 2600 might be removed does not mean
people can turn 2900 for a higher cruise. We only test about 100 RPM above
redline and even the best tachometers can be 50-100 RPM off.
Please respond to Ken's email address with any more questions.
Thanks
Buddy Sessoms
----------
From: Jerry Isler[SMTP:jlisler(at)surfsouth.com]
Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 8:56 AM
Subject: O-320 2600 RPM Limit
In reading your web site it appears that no progress has been made in
lifting the 2600 RPM restriction for the O-320. I am just curious as to how
a metal prop can be made to work on the larger O-360 with no such
limitations. All of the theories and reasons for the vibrations that I have
heard about is suppose to be due to the large bores on these engines
causing harmonics / vibrations in the prop when the cylinders fire. I know
this is simplistic and a lot more is involved. Anyway, I would like to have
one of your props to go on my O-320 RV4 but I do not know if I want to live
with this compromise. Convince me as to why I should use this prop, other
than you will starve if I don't buy from Sensenich.
Thanks,
Jerry Isler
jlisler(at)surfsouth.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
>OK, I'll ask the question that will bug me until I figure it out.... What
>makes the -6's spin more agressively then the -4's (and -3's and -8's, too I
>assume???) The -4's and -6's share similar wingspan, length, stabilizers,
>etc... Or do they?
>
>Any thoughts? Inquiring minds want to know.....
>
>Jon Elford
Jon,
Vertical wind tunnel testing with models has shown that the cross sectional
shape of the aft fuselage has a significant effect on spin characteristics.
I don't have my notes on the road with me, but I think changes in aft
fuselage shape might affect the way that vortexes are shed off one side or
the other during a spin, and that might give a side force one way or the
other.
Spin characteristics are also very much affected by the relationship
between the moments of inertia around the various axis. The RV-6 will have
a higher moment of inertia around the longitudinal axis than the RV-4 (i.e.
the moment of inertia in rolling manoeuvres).
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Engineering test pilot
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint Now or Later? |
In a message dated 9/29/98 1:22:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ammeterj(at)home.com
writes:
<< >I am getting within two or three months of painting my RV-8, and can't
>decide if I should paint it while the wings are off (advantage of being
>able to take it to auto painter at less cost), or go ahead and assemble
>and fly off the test period, then go have it painted by an aircraft paint
>facility (more expensive). I tend to go with the test period first,
>because it would seem that there would be a number of adjustments to be
>made, changes to make, etc. After all the bugs are worked out would seem
>like a better time to paint. Would like to hear the pros and cons from
>those of you who have been there.
>
>Thanks.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
Were I to do it again I'd paint it before flying. I flew it with bare
metal and some primer for about a year before painting.
The only changes I had to make were adjusting the angle of the HS (and
the fiberglass fairing). It would have been much easier and cheaper
to paint it my self (or use an auto painter) if the wings were off.
John Ammeter >>
I second John's statement. I also flew my -6 unpainted for about a year.
There were no adjustments necessary that would have been effected by paint. I
personally painted my plane and it would have been much easier with the wings
removed. After installing those wings once, I wasn't about to remove them. I
plan to paint my -8 before the first flight, even though those wings are much,
much easier to remove.
Rick McBride
rickrv6(at)aol.com
80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Nelson <nelsonr(at)maptown.com> |
I am interested in buying a completed or nearly so Rv6a. If anyone on
this list has an aircraft for sale or knows of someone that does could
you please let me know.
Thanks
Roger Nelson
Cochrane, Alberta Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-8 manual aileron trim |
RV-Listers,
I asked this question to Van's, but the answer I got back didn't really
tell me what I wanted to know. I also checked the archives, but no luck.
I am studying the RV-8 fuselage options in preparation to ordering the
fuselage kit. One option is aileron trim, manual or electric. Where does
the manual aileron trim control lever mount? Is it on the bottom of the
stick like the -4 and -6, or somewhere else?
Can anyone comment on the weight difference between manual and electric
aileron trim (the new design with springs , not the one that puts a tab on
the aileron).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
Yeah, but electric gyros are DRAMATICALLY more expensive than vacuum. I
planned initially to go electric until I priced them. The thought of buying
TWO dramatically more expensive AIs and one dramatically more expensive DG
or (gag, cough, choke) incredibly expensive electric HSI was more than I
could bear. I bought my humble vacuum AI and DG, with an inexpensive
electric turn coordinator backup. I have flown to localizer minimums on a
turn coordinator and a compass, therefore I know I can do it.
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST took a huge chunk out of my wallet even after the above austerity
;-)
>IMHO A second electrical power source for electric gyros is easier to come
>by than a second air source is for air-powered gyros. (I know; someone is
>going to mention a venturi or the Precise Flight standby vacuum system.)
>Bob Nuckols book _The_Aero_Electric_Connection_ spends a lot of time
>talking about dual busses and redundant power. Bill Bainbrige at B&C
>Specialties has a really nice 14V/8A dynamo that bolts to the vacuum pump
>pad and provides backup power for essential systems ... like your gyros.
>Heck, even a second battery pack made up of eight or nine 'D' cells will
>get you down in a pinch.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
Yup. Occupational hazard to the lips. We used to haze unsuspecting Tweet
students with this trick. Tell the overeager youngster that we need to test
the pitot system. He should blow into the pitot tube while the suave
instructor watches the airspeed gauge for a rise. Bear in mind that the
pitot tube on the T-37 is a straight tube about 8" long, on the nose about
waist high. When the student gets down on his knees and presses puckered
lips to pitot tube, we have a picture of Presidential proportions . . .
Of course, I never did this myself.
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST installing the baffling
>I just remembered a pilot friend who used to blow gently into the pitot
>tube while having an assistant verify that the airspeed indicator actually
>moved. One day he, unthinkingly, did this with the pitot heat on.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
Jon,
My background is a BS in aeronautical engineering from the USAF Academy and
lots of time in a spin in the T-37. None of this makes me an authority on
the subject. With that in mind, here are my thoughts:
The RV-4, a tandem two-seater, has a tall, skinny fuselage with lots of
vertical side area aft of the spin axis.
The RV-6, a side-by-side two seater, has a short, fat fuselage with less
vertical side area aft of the spin axis.
When you consider the angle that the relative wind strikes the fuselage
sides in a spin, the RV-4 shape tends to provide more anti-spin force than
does the RV-6 shape.
Indeed, the short & fat nose of the prototype T-37 (also a side-by-side two
seater) was found to provide a pro-spin pressure distribution. It acted
like a short wing as it sliced sideways through the air, with the lift force
acting pro-spin and nose-up. Cessna solved the problem by affixing a
spoiler all the way around the nose that was parallel to the relative wind
in normal coordinated flight, but became a spoiler in the spin. The net
effect was a slight anti-spin force contributed by the nose, with an
ancompanying decrease in the nose-up pitching moment.
My guess is that the shorter and fatter shape of the RV-6 provides less
anti-spin force, and therefore less damping in the spin, than the RV-4.
This would explain the sportier spin characteristics reported by Van's guest
test pilot.
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST installing the baffling
>OK, I'll ask the question that will bug me until I figure it out.... What
>makes the -6's spin more agressively then the -4's (and -3's and -8's, too
I
>assume?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
Fiberglass?...)
>I suppose I'll weigh in here with $.02. No doubt the VSI has just such a
>delay, because of the restrictor orifice designed into the instrument itself,
>which allows it to display rate-of-change, although not in real time. The
ASI
>should not be similarly limited. The mass of the pointer and
bellows/gears is
>doubtless the largest contributor to mechanical lag.
ASI's seem to have a fairly small aneroid bellows. As I recall on the one
I pulled from my Clipper, about 1cc of displacement causes a 100 kt
airspeed change. (I can't get rid of or overhaul the darned thing because
its radium dial renders it low-level nuclear waste so no shop will touch
it. :^)
>The plumbing to the instrument from the pitot should transmit pressure
>information at mach 1.0, which traverses the distance from the pitot to the
>panel in a few milliseconds. There is some damping from friction losses in
>the piping, which rise inversely with the 4th power of the radius,
Viscosity, right?
>but since
>the "current" flow in the system is small (the change in volume of the
bellows
>from one airspeed/pitot pressure increment to the next) this is essentially a
>"voltage" system (high impedance, if you will) and I think it will respond
and
>dampen quickly. I'll predict Brian's experiment yields a response time too
>rapid to detect by eye alone, on the order of 1/10th of a second.
BTW, I am going to use my shop vac to generate an airflow (claims to be
able to move air at 150 mph) and will direct/divert the flow to/from the
pitot tube to see what the response time is. Actually, I will use my
low-level nuclear waste ASI just in case.
>Hey- I've
>got an electronic ASI in addition to the analog one, so what do I care
>anyway?!
You care because you are a techno-nerd like the rest of us. You *like*
playing with this stuff. Heck, an airplane is the ultimate free-form
physics laboratory!
And to those of you are wondering, "why do these idiots care," I can say,
"it is the principle of the thing now." :^)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Van's dinner Copperstate |
There will be an unofficial Vans dinner Friday night at the Cosmos Italian
restaurant just outside Williams Gateway Airport...I believe it to be at
7:00 PM
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Lag |
>+AD4APg-I will devise a test and get back to you with the results.
>
>I look forward to seeing these results. Hope your equipment is high dollar
>and fast.
It is cheap and slow, i.e. shop vac to generate airflow and MK-1 eyeball to
determine order-of-magnitude data about ASI pointer movement, but 'twill
suffice .
>2. The +ACM-1 cause of fatal accidents AFTER an engine failure is stall/spin
>(failure to maintain flying speed). As several have mentioned, it is very
>difficult to lower the nose whence the ground is coming up to smite thee.
>An engine failure does not cause the airplane to stall.
Yes, it is really difficult to push hard (well, not so hard in an RV) when
the engine quits when you are only 500' in the air. That is why you want
to try it a couple of times first.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
> My normal operation is to leave the gyros switched off. I turn them
on
>when I fly at night, IFR, or under the hood. The rest of the time they
don't
>accrue the wear and tear of operation.
>
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite
Brain:
When I visited Century in Mineral Wells, they had a room full of HSI's &
Dg's. the tour guide indicated that every one until sold was run up every
2 weeks, so the bearings would remain loose. You may want to check this
out in lieu of leaving them off most of the time.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Fogerson <rfogerson(at)baf.com> |
| Subject: | Paint Now or Later? |
I painted mine first and then flew. For my two cents, if I had it to do
over I would fly first and then paint for the reasons you gave. I
buggered up my nose gear leg and cowl removing and replacing it so much.
I suppose you can deduce that there is no best way!!!! Which ever you
do you will probably wish you had done the opposite. In fact if I
really had it to do over I think I would seriously consider just
polishing the damn thing and maybe even attempt an aluminum cowl just to
be different.
-----Original Message-----
<< >I am getting within two or three months of painting my RV-8, and
can't
>decide if I should paint it while the wings are off (advantage of
being
>able to take it to auto painter at less cost), or go ahead and
assemble
>and fly off the test period, then go have it painted by an aircraft
paint
>facility (more expensive).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Left Elevator & Trim Tab (RV-6) |
David,
Get Frank Justice's instructions. They are very helpful at times like
these.
Also, many builders ended up making more than one trim tab. I am one of
them. The second one was a snap.
Good luck.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
(working my day job ... not building)
-----Original Message-----
From: David Carter [mailto:dcarter(at)datarecall.net]
I'm a little nervous about some things related to trim
tab position
versus the elevator - and sequence of actions - and
thought I'd send out
this "sanity check" e-mail before proceeding.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Now or Later? |
On the subject of when to paint, when do you do your cockpit painting?
Seems that the further you get into construction the harder its gonna be to
get into the little nooks and crannies. Ive seen some RVs that I would
swear were at least partially painted before skinning, cant imagine how you
would get into those spaces otherwise. On the other hand, seems that the
sooner you do it the more likely you are to damage the fresh paint as you
finish up all the details.
On a related note, can anyone provide details on how much weight is added
by installing interior upholstery such as padded side panels, carpetting,
etc.? If I were to do this, what is recommended as the best (lightest)
approach?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>I second John's statement. I also flew my -6 unpainted for about a year.
>There were no adjustments necessary that would have been effected by
paint. I
>personally painted my plane and it would have been much easier with the wings
>removed. After installing those wings once, I wasn't about to remove
them. I
>plan to paint my -8 before the first flight, even though those wings are
much,
>much easier to remove.
>
>Rick McBride
>rickrv6(at)aol.com
>80027
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David S. Hamilton" <hamlton(at)mindspring.com> |
>lots of time in a spin in the T-37.
I'll second that! The Tweet was a spinner. The Piper Tomahawk is another
airplane that will really wind up after 3 or 4 turns.
In 1980 I saw the ELT come out of the cheapo' plastic box that forms the
arm rest between the Tomahawk's seats and depart the aircraft through one
of the back windows. I still remember that because it was the only time I
ever damaged an aircraft. All I was doing was letting a weak student do a
sloppy power on stall. He all but refused to use his feet and I thought it
would stress the importance of good rudder coordination. Made a believer
out of both of us:)
I still see him occasionally. We have a good laugh over that several times
each year.
Where and when did you fly the Tweet, Tom? Perhaps we crossed paths.
Dave Hamilton
RV-8 (80001)
N880RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David S. Hamilton" <hamlton(at)mindspring.com> |
>
Hello all,
I just bought a Twin Beech project. Actually an Ex-Navy SNB5. I'll finish
the RV first but will needed something else when RV builders withdraw sets
in.
I anyone is a Beech 18 fan and/or has any interest or experience with these
most honorable of spam cans (anything with R-985's is deserving of more
respect) Please feel free to contact me off list at Hamlton(at)mindspring.com
I can't help wondering what Van would think if I showed up at the 1999
homecoming with a R-985 power RV-8. I could call it the Macho-*@$%&#!.
Dave Hamilton
(80001)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
There is a general info number which is
602-770-6420
they can give most info for thoes requiring it
RV4 Stew Bergner CO.
VFR arrival procedures
From; Holding point Tower
Approach
South thru west San Tan Mtns 124.75
123.70
Southeast thru East Rittenhouse 120.60
124.90
Northwest thru North Superstition Mall 120.60
120.70
North thru Northeast Superstition Mall 120.60
128.65 or
119.2
These were taken from Copperstate flyer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris & Tammy Edwards <cte(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone building in Des Moines? |
I am here this week then back the next. Just curious if anyone is building in
Des Moines?
Thanks,
Chris Edwards
RV-8 QB #80231
N364TS
cte(at)csi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
Would you believe there is a guy here in portland ore, who is making a round
engine out of vw parts? I've heard it run....sounds great.....I wounder
how........rv?
David S. Hamilton wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I just bought a Twin Beech project. Actually an Ex-Navy SNB5. I'll finish
> the RV first but will needed something else when RV builders withdraw sets
> in.
>
> I anyone is a Beech 18 fan and/or has any interest or experience with these
> most honorable of spam cans (anything with R-985's is deserving of more
> respect) Please feel free to contact me off list at Hamlton(at)mindspring.com
>
> I can't help wondering what Van would think if I showed up at the 1999
> homecoming with a R-985 power RV-8. I could call it the Macho-*@$%&#!.
>
> Dave Hamilton
> (80001)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 manual aileron trim |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Kevin;
The manual aileron trim was just recently finished and delivered to
builders; I got mine just last week. It is mounted on the left sidewall
with a cable going down under the floor laterally and attaching to the
control column. Looks very nice and is simple and light. I also installed
manual elevator trim, and highly recommend it, too. These are both
installed in the factory 8-A, for those of you who have seen it.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
I can go back through my log books and determine
> how many carrier, FCLP, land, day, and night landings I made each
> flight. I plan to log my RV time (and landings) also though I know it
> is not required. Am I alone?
>
> Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX
> -6A Engine wiring and plumbing, tires awaiting first landing
Will,
That's impressive, I wish I could say the same. As a point of interest, How
many hours have you got all together.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint Now or Later? |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Mike;
I just got done painting my interior, and was asking the same question a
few weeks ago, and got no response. What I did was wait until I was done
with all the metal work; panel holes cut, cable holes cut, etc. Then with
all the removeable panels, etc out of the plane, paint the interior. All
the parts are easier to paint out of the airplane, if you can remove
them. As you say, there are many knooks and crannies, so use a small gun
and a very flexible hose. Be sure to sand, clean, blow and vacuum the
interior many times. Even after all I did, I still have some minor
particles in the paint, although these will rub out fine. Start painting
at the front by the rudder pedals (you have to be in the plane to do
this), and work your way back, getting out of the plane to do the back
half and baggage area. The most difficult part is seeing when you have
covered adequately. Use a flashlight to shine on each panel as you finish
to see if you covered it and got a flow out. And last of all, do not get
in to the airplane or start working around the paint for one week, this
allows plenty of time to harden fully. When you start installing
systems, you have to be very careful about the paint, using blankets on
the floor, etc to prevent scratching. With proper care, only minimal
touch-up will be required. I used Dupont Centauri with hardener and have
had good results. You will probably hear many other opinions; just do
what you feel will work best for you.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install? |
<< I've done hundreds of brake jobs on all kinds of weird sports cars and yet
I
found the Cleveland brake installation a little puzzling. I'm glad to hear
someone else did too. >>
What I thought to be very clear profile and cross-section views were included
with the installation instructions (PRM-13A) provided from Cleveland. If you
didn't get it or misplaced it, I'm sure that they will send you this document.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mountain Flying |
<< There is a publication High Mountain Flying through the U.S.
Government printing office: Publication number 1992-837-602. There are
several good books available, also. Mountain Flying by Sparky Imeson may be
one of the best (Airguide Publications). >>
Also, there is a good magazine called Mountain Pilot that has a lot of good
info for you cumulogranite bashers. Subscriptions are $16.95/yr. Call
888-847-4403 or try <http://www.mountainpilot.com>
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
Tween Beech sounds really like a nice project. But I don't know what the SNB5
looks like.
send me a pix when you get it or one of that model.
What is the hp of the R-985's? How many Cyl's
I like the old planes with the radial Engines.
Gordon
David S. Hamilton wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I just bought a Twin Beech project. Actually an Ex-Navy SNB5. I'll finish
> the RV first but will needed something else when RV builders withdraw sets
> in.
>
> I anyone is a Beech 18 fan and/or has any interest or experience with these
> most honorable of spam cans (anything with R-985's is deserving of more
> respect) Please feel free to contact me off list at Hamlton(at)mindspring.com
>
> I can't help wondering what Van would think if I showed up at the 1999
> homecoming with a R-985 power RV-8. I could call it the Macho-*@$%&#!.
>
> Dave Hamilton
> (80001)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
Utahpilot(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Because of our high evelations here, I do acro's between the 8000 and 9000
> Ron Caldwell
> utahpilot(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Procedure For Installing Engine |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
My engine will be delivered next week, and I would like to know this; Is
there any reason that I should'nt go ahead and install the engine mount
and engine before I have cut or drilled any holes in the firewall for
hookup? Seems to me I would rather accept the inconvenience of difficult
access than to drill holes in the wrong place. If the engine is
installed, I can accurately line up where the cables, etc should come out
on the firewall. Being a first timer, I need to know if I am missing
something here?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Sensenich for sale |
I have a Sensenich 70cm-81 with 90 hrs.Complete with spinner and ext.
for cs cowl. Drilled for 3/8 bolts. Also have 3/8 bushings for the
crank.1400.00 Great prop but I fly formation with a bunch of guys with
CS.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
For anyone interested, I have been flying for some time with vortex
generators one my RV6. They are awesome. Approx.6 mph off the stall
speed. Almost Nothing lost on the top end. Cleaner stalls, better spin
entry, and untouchable in a dog fight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 manual aileron trim |
The 8 I saw at Oshkosh had a lever at the bottom of the stick.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
>RV-Listers,
>
>I asked this question to Van's, but the answer I got back didn't really
>tell me what I wanted to know. I also checked the archives, but no luck.
>
>I am studying the RV-8 fuselage options in preparation to ordering the
>fuselage kit. One option is aileron trim, manual or electric. Where does
>the manual aileron trim control lever mount? Is it on the bottom of the
>stick like the -4 and -6, or somewhere else?
>
>Can anyone comment on the weight difference between manual and electric
>aileron trim (the new design with springs , not the one that puts a tab on
>the aileron).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
You sure opened yourself up for this one, now everyone is going to want to
know exactly what you did. I for one am curious what size and location you
selected. 6 MPH off stall means nearly hovering!. Nice work
Marcus
> For anyone interested, I have been flying for some time with vortex
> generators one my RV6. They are awesome. Approx.6 mph off the stall
> speed. Almost Nothing lost on the top end. Cleaner stalls, better spin
> entry, and untouchable in a dog fight.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Lag |
Here's the engineer approach again, anyone who adds 2 knots correction
which equates to 1/3 second at rotation
isn't looking out the window on takeoff ;)
Marcus
RV-6 2 weeks since first flight, 31TT, it's a blast
> Yes, it is. Not that I love to bring test pilots to their senses with
solid
> engineering, but the reason the airspeed systems lag in business jets is
due
> to electronic filtering used in the air data computers and/or display
tubes.
> On our very fast business jet, we add about 2 knots due to a 320 msec
filter
> on an airplane that's accelerating at about 6 knots/sec at rotation
speed.
> (ps. As an added note to Kevin, this is not meant to be a cut on you. I
> read a lot of erroneous information on the RV-list and is it always good
to
> see a message from you, knowing it's coming from another professional who
> makes their living doing this sort of thing -Ron)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
<>
Terry,
Please, tell us more...
-Where did you get them?
-How did you mount them?
-How did you determine WHERE to mount them?
Sounds like a great article for the RVator also. Ken Scott would probably
appreciate that.
Inquiring minds, and people wanting better performance, want to know.
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, N558RL reserved, finishing wings, beginning fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
> For anyone interested, I have been flying for some time with vortex
> generators one my RV6. They are awesome. Approx.6 mph off the stall
> speed. Almost Nothing lost on the top end. Cleaner stalls, better spin
> entry, and untouchable in a dog fight.
OK just out of curiosity what speed are you stalling at? Is your
airplane the one that was at Van's homecoming? What do you mean untouchable
in a dog fight? What does cleaner stall mean? What does better spin entry
mean? What is almost nothing lost ontop end. Inquiring minds want to know.
--
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
You are overlooking the effects of the volume of the tubing which must be
increased in pressure along its full length before an "accurate" reading is
obtained. Remember air is compressible so this will require the displacement of
the difference in volume of the air at its initial pressure and its final
pressure. If the air was incompressible (like water) you would be correct the
pressure would propagate at the speed of sound. Some reading will be obtained at
sonic speeds but it will not be accurate until the signal lines equalise.
Additional errors due to mechanical inertia will cause oscillations which will
also need time to damp out.
Please remember your airspeed indicator is just an insensitive altimeter with
two taps.
(PS. yes, I know at high pressure you can compress water but the effect is so
small as to be irrelevant to this discussion)
Now ,if you were interested ,I could design you a pitot with no lags (other than
the speed of light) but you probably couldn't afford it...
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Re[6]: RV-List: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?...
Date: 29-09-98 09:49
<< >>Yes it does, you are forgetting about the tubes connecting it to the
>outside world full of compressible fluid (air) and the fixed volume of the
>indicator. Response is about 2 to 3 seconds behind because of this. >>
I suppose I'll weigh in here with $.02. No doubt the VSI has just such a
delay, because of the restrictor orifice designed into the instrument itself,
which allows it to display rate-of-change, although not in real time. The ASI
should not be similarly limited. The mass of the pointer and bellows/gears is
doubtless the largest contributor to mechanical lag.
The plumbing to the instrument from the pitot should transmit pressure
information at mach 1.0, which traverses the distance from the pitot to the
panel in a few milliseconds. There is some damping from friction losses in
the piping, which rise inversely with the 4th power of the radius, but since
the "current" flow in the system is small (the change in volume of the bellows
from one airspeed/pitot pressure increment to the next) this is essentially a
"voltage" system (high impedance, if you will) and I think it will respond and
dampen quickly. I'll predict Brian's experiment yields a response time too
rapid to detect by eye alone, on the order of 1/10th of a second. Hey- I've
got an electronic ASI in addition to the analog one, so what do I care
anyway?!
-BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gar Pessel" <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | rivet strength and errors |
A while back, I remember someone posting a message about an article that
referred to the strength of rivets with common errors compared to the ideal.
If someone can point me to the source or the article, I would appreciate it.
Reply direct unless you think others might be interested. Gar Pessel,
Fairbanks, AK. (Stopped working on RV6 empennage with sore hand from
squeezing too many rivets)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: h stab adjusting |
After 250 flying hours in the last year, I have not had to adjust the
horizontal stab on my RV-6. It is built to plans as Van intended.
Any performance numbers that Van has published and I tried to verify
has meet (most cases exceeded slightly) his published numbers.
Empty weight is 1086 pounds. Solo with full fuel and 150 KTAS, I am
unable to see any deflection of the elevator counter weight. At 1,800
pounds, there is a slight nose down elevator trim. (counter weight
slightly above the horizontal)
> If my memory serves me right, the stick free pitch stability
> is certainly a function of the horizontal stab and when Tom Green
said it, it
> kinda of reinforced what I thought I remembered from my aero way
back in
> engineering school. So with that, I would not change it without
doing some
> more research.
>
> Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage in canoe stage, SE Fla
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
Dont forget about the October 11, 11am RV, Experimental, Homebuilders Pig
Roast, Free Pig. Bring your own chairs. Sparta, Illinois (SAR) Hunter
Field. Eat until we run out of pig.
chet razer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
Tom, I would have thought the -6 would have more side area behind the
CG. It has a turtle deck. Aren't all othe r dimensions in side
elevation similar to the -4?
Peter Bennett
RV6 firewall forward
> Jon,
> My background is a BS in aeronautical engineering from the USAF
> Academy and lots of time in a spin in the T-37. None of this makes
> me an authority on the subject. With that in mind, here are my
> thoughts:
>
> The RV-4, a tandem two-seater, has a tall, skinny fuselage with lots
> of vertical side area aft of the spin axis.
>
> The RV-6, a side-by-side two seater, has a short, fat fuselage with
> less vertical side area aft of the spin axis.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Now or Later? |
Good question. This had me in decision paralysis for weeks,
particularly when I couldn't get any opinions from the list. Sooooo..
when I had done all the interior metalwork I stripped out everything
removeable and painted it, including canopy. Then I did the interior
with a cheap touchup gun. The KEY point I believe was that I had not
rivetted the forward bottom skin. I could sit on a chair and get into
every crook and nanny forward of the seat brace
Peter Bennett
RV6 firewall forward
(and that skin stays off until engine hookup complete)
>
>
> On the subject of when to paint, when do you do your cockpit
> painting?
> Seems that the further you get into construction the harder its
> gonna be to get into the little nooks and crannies. Ive seen some
> RVs that I would swear were at least partially painted before
> skinning, cant imagine how you would get into those spaces
> otherwise. On the other hand, seems that the sooner you do it the
> more likely you are to damage the fresh paint as you finish up all
> the details.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Airspeed Lag |
+AD4-Here's the engineer approach again, anyone who adds 2 knots correction
+AD4-which equates to 1/3 second at rotation
+AD4- isn't looking out the window on takeoff +ADs-)
Yes, but in today's world, the corrections are electronically added in the
air data computers (ADCs). Plus, that's what the co-pilot is for+ADs- he/she
looks at the engine instruments, calls out critical airspeeds off the
airspeed tape (alive,V1, Vr, V2), and +ACI-feels+ACI- the throttles. The pilot
better have eyes outside the airplane.
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
ps. All Airplane Flight Manuals (AFMs) are published in INDICATED airspeed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Sounds Great Terry,
How about some details - what type, how many, where located, how
attached etc.,etc.
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW
Terry Burch wrote:
>
>
> For anyone interested, I have been flying for some time with vortex
> generators one my RV6. They are awesome. Approx.6 mph off the stall
> speed. Almost Nothing lost on the top end. Cleaner stalls, better spin
> entry, and untouchable in a dog fight.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | NO LAG AT M2 << 1 |
+AD4-You are overlooking the effects of the volume of the tubing which must be
+AD4-increased in pressure along its full length before an +ACI-accurate+ACI- reading
is
+AD4-obtained. Remember air is compressible so this will require the
displacement of
+AD4-the difference in volume of the air at its initial pressure and its final
+AD4-pressure. If the air was incompressible (like water) you would be correct
the
+AD4-pressure would propagate at the speed of sound. Some reading will be
obtained at
+AD4-sonic speeds but it will not be accurate until the signal lines equalise.
Yes, air is compressible, but this effect is negligible at 200 knots+ACE-
Remember this is driven by the Mach number squared (ie. 0.3 X 0.3 +AD0- 0.09,
considered negligible). The only spam I know about that even thinks about
compressibility effects in the airspeed system (yes, the aero weenies
consider it on all aerodynamics) is the Citation X, and it is only thought
about because the feds made us calibrate the airplane out to M+AD0-0.99 . . . .
but that's a long story (but covered very fast at Mach 1)
+AD4-Additional errors due to mechanical inertia will cause oscillations which
will
+AD4-also need time to damp out.
Yes, mechanical inertia is a player. DON'T pump an airspeed indicator up to
redline or suck the altimeter down to 20,000 feet then immediately release
them to ambient conditions+ADs- chances are good they will break.
+AD4-Now ,if you were interested ,I could design you a pitot with no lags (other
than
+AD4-the speed of light) but you probably couldn't afford it...
Yes, 50' of 1/32+ACI- or 1/8+ACI- tube is way too expensive today. We also used
+ACQ-60
transducers on our unstable vehicle (missile, drone, etc.) that required air
data to keep the pointy end forward.
More for Less,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME+AEA-worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
Funny, I had that thought go thru my mind about a VW Radical when I read the
message about the tween beech, But then told myself "Self, No, Don't say it"
I just recently bought a ton of VW parts including a new 4-place Sand rail frame
form my neighbor, engines and extra transaxles so I will have projects to keep
me
busy when ever I get my Airplane plans.
Sounds like a neet idea of a radial VW How about using 4 VW Engines, Have 16 Cyl.
280 hp.
Gordon
susan dawson wrote:
>
> Would you believe there is a guy here in portland ore, who is making a round
> engine out of vw parts? I've heard it run....sounds great.....I wounder
> how........rv?
>
> David S. Hamilton wrote:
>
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I just bought a Twin Beech project. Actually an Ex-Navy SNB5. I'll finish
> > the RV first but will needed something else when RV builders withdraw sets
> > in.
> >
> > I anyone is a Beech 18 fan and/or has any interest or experience with these
> > most honorable of spam cans (anything with R-985's is deserving of more
> > respect) Please feel free to contact me off list at Hamlton(at)mindspring.com
> >
> > I can't help wondering what Van would think if I showed up at the 1999
> > homecoming with a R-985 power RV-8. I could call it the Macho-*@$%&#!.
> >
> > Dave Hamilton
> > (80001)
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Brimhall <snakeskin(at)surfree.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Please explain how they work to us who don't know.
Gordon
Terry Burch wrote:
>
> For anyone interested, I have been flying for some time with vortex
> generators one my RV6. They are awesome. Approx.6 mph off the stall
> speed. Almost Nothing lost on the top end. Cleaner stalls, better spin
> entry, and untouchable in a dog fight.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Procedure For Installing Engine |
Von,
That was my reasoning exactly. Not having built an airplane before, I had
no way of predicting what would penetrate the firewall where. The only
course I could see was to mount the engine, trial fit all the accessories,
then begin drilling. Fortunately the RV-4 has a removable top forward skin,
so I can just pilot the holes from the engine side, then final drill from
the aft side. I don't know whether the RV-8 has the same convenience.
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST just received my next to last expensive box: Apollo GX-65!
> Is
>there any reason that I should'nt go ahead and install the engine mount
>and engine before I have cut or drilled any holes in the firewall for
>hookup? Seems to me I would rather accept the inconvenience of difficult
>access than to drill holes in the wrong place. If the engine is
>installed, I can accurately line up where the cables, etc should come out
>on the firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
Peter,
The turtledeck of the RV-6 increases the side area further forward than the
RV-4's bubble canopy sitting atop the fuselage. Both taper to roughly the
same side area at the tail. Add to this the wider cross section of the RV-6
fuselage and I would guess that the RV-6 shape presents less anti-spin force
in this area.
Just a guess, but it seems to be borne out in spin testing.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST still monkeying around with the baffling
>
>Tom, I would have thought the -6 would have more side area behind the
>CG. It has a turtle deck. Aren't all othe r dimensions in side
>elevation similar to the -4?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Procedure For Installing Engine |
<< Is
there any reason that I shouldn't go ahead and install the engine mount
and engine before I have cut or drilled any holes in the firewall for
hookup? Seems to me I would rather accept the inconvenience of difficult
access than to drill holes in the wrong place. >>
Von-
That is the way I did it. I roughly planned out locations for all of the
firewall goodies (FWGs) first, then assembled the mount to the engine,
attached the mounted engine to the fuselage, fine tuned all the positions of
the FWGs, drilled mounting holes and then mounted the FWGs.
Make sure you have all of the FWGs before you start and mount the biggest FWGs
first. Think ahead for all of the plumbing routes and use nutplates or
rivnuts to allow for removal accessibility. Try to allow form to follow
function. The only thing I would change on my 6A, if I had it to do over
again, would be to mount the boost pump and gascolator on the right side of
the plane, to facilitate entry to the right side port on the engine mounted
fuel pump.
When running the throttle, carb heat and mixture cables I designed a three
gang firewall shield (ACAD .dwg file available) to make this easy. I also
have .dwg files for the special carb and governor brackets I made for the ACS
cables. I think they are downloadable from Tim Lewis' website.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Procedure For Installing Engine |
On 29 Sep 98, at 22:46, VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
> My engine will be delivered next week, and I would like to know this; Is
> there any reason that I should'nt go ahead and install the engine mount
> and engine before I have cut or drilled any holes in the firewall for
> hookup? Seems to me I would rather accept the inconvenience of difficult
> access than to drill holes in the wrong place. If the engine is installed,
> I can accurately line up where the cables, etc should come out on the
> firewall. Being a first timer, I need to know if I am missing something
> here?
>
I'm finishing my O-360 installation, and that's exactly how I did it. It
worked out well for me. Engine start this weekend, maybe.
I did have to take the engine (still attached to the mount) off the
fuselage once so I could rivet the hard-to-reach ends of the cowl
attach piano hinge to the fuselage. Not a big deal, just a couple of
hours work to unhook the engine lines, pull the engine mount bolts,
and back the fuselage up a few inches. I'd suggest you do this before
you get too many connections made to the engine, just to save a bit of
time.
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Now or Later? |
Mike & all:
I am currently working on my RV-4 fuselage and am painting all the interior
components first. I am using AlumaGrip polyurethane for a finish coat (same
color as the base coat of the airplane will be). I think that if you are
cautious and careful, you can complete the fuselage construction without
scratching any part of the interior (I do mask and protect certain areas
that might get bumped). I too felt it would be difficult to paint the
interior after the fact.
Doug Weiler,
Hudson, WI
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 1998 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Paint Now or Later?
>
> On the subject of when to paint, when do you do your cockpit painting?
>Seems that the further you get into construction the harder its gonna be to
>get into the little nooks and crannies. Ive seen some RVs that I would
>swear were at least partially painted before skinning, cant imagine how you
>would get into those spaces otherwise. On the other hand, seems that the
>sooner you do it the more likely you are to damage the fresh paint as you
>finish up all the details.
> On a related note, can anyone provide details on how much weight is added
>by installing interior upholstery such as padded side panels, carpetting,
>etc.? If I were to do this, what is recommended as the best (lightest)
>approach?
>
>Mike Wills
>RV-4 fuse
>willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>
>>I second John's statement. I also flew my -6 unpainted for about a year.
>>There were no adjustments necessary that would have been effected by
>paint. I
>>personally painted my plane and it would have been much easier with the
wings
>>removed. After installing those wings once, I wasn't about to remove
>them. I
>>plan to paint my -8 before the first flight, even though those wings are
>much,
>>much easier to remove.
>>
>>Rick McBride
>>rickrv6(at)aol.com
>>80027
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roncace, Robert A" <Robert.Roncace(at)west.boeing.com> |
Conceptually, the Vortex Generators work in a straight forward
way. What you usually have with VGs is a row of small wings
(usually less than an inch tall) standing vertically off the
wing's upper surface much like an extremely short picket fence
with the slats turned edge-on to the airflow. It looks something
like this:
(appologies for crude ASCII graphics attempt)
airflow
V V V V V V
_______________________________|
|_______________________________|
The little wings are angled to the flow so they will generate
vortices (much like the wing tip, but much smaller) all along
the top of the wing. These vortices energize the boundary layer
of the air flowing over the wing and delay the air's separation
from the wing's upper surface until a greater angle of attack is
reached than the usual stalling AOA.
The art and science of applying VGs is that their size, spacing,
and placement on the wing need to be fine tuned for each application.
I've also seen them on the horizontal tails of some bigger airplanes
(the Boeing 737 comes to mind but I'm not certain).
Regards,
Bob Roncace
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gordon Brimhall [mailto:snakeskin(at)surfree.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 11:15 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: VG's on RV's
>
>
>
>Please explain how they work to us who don't know.
>
>Gordon
>
>Terry Burch wrote:
>
>>
>> For anyone interested, I have been flying for some time with vortex
>> generators one my RV6. They are awesome. Approx.6 mph off the stall
>> speed. Almost Nothing lost on the top end. Cleaner stalls,
>better spin
>> entry, and untouchable in a dog fight.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tires - Keeping Inflated |
I guess I wrote too briefly to be clear. What I was meaning was to spit on the
valve to see if it was leaking. They often leak but will always blow bubbles when
they do. If they are leaking at the valve the valve should be tightened with a
tire valve core removing tool. These simple devices used to be about one dollar
at
any auto parts store. The valves seldom need replacement. If the valve is not
leaking but the tire is losing significant air over a two week period, the tube
either has a hole or the tube is so porous as to be considered defective. A new
tube has always fixed the problem in the planes I have been around and the old
tubes always had holes it them when aired up and sprayed with soapy water. Usually
the holes were caused by pinching the rubber during installation.
Hope this is clearer, everyone should have a valve tool.
Joe Walker
Houston, Texas
JNice51355(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/98 7:05:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, joewalk@hal-
> pc.org writes:
>
> << You only replace the valve stems in tubeless tires >>
> This is true, but the valves can be removed from "tubes", and have been known
> to leak. Maybe they were not tightened enough at the factory.
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
> WA State
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum vs Fiberglass?... |
Doug:
You not only make a good point concerning flight safety, you address a broad issue
of great importance, that of public responsibility. The RV list is a fabulous
forum for the dissemination of information concerning the building techniques of
RV aircraft. However, the nature of the beast is such that flying qualities in
acrobatics, mountain flying, water flying, and emergency maneuvers are just as
likely to be discussed to the great benefit of all. While I have technical skill
in structures and material science, my advice to a lister about to consider a
structural repair or change of questionable nature is always "call Van's". A
number of recent postings by experienced pilots on aerobatics and mountain flying
got warnings of "get training". A new pilot sees only words and does not always
know the difference between a posting by someone who means well and has enough
knowledge to convey a thought in an intelligent way but is expressing an opinion,
verses the expert who may know the material so well he only sees the need to
express what he thinks is obvious in few words. Sometimes the volume of words
appears to carry greater weight.
We need to take great care to help each other build safe aircraft and operate them
in a safe manner. Brian has added much to the body of information on the list
(even if he doesn't understand the evils of multi grade oil). We will miss him
when his prop explodes from high rpm operation.
Joe Walker
Rewiring at the moment
Houston, Texas
P.S. What has this got to do with fiberglass and aluminum?
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> Brian,
skip text
> >
> >You are making a blanket admonition that it is never safe to turn back to
> >the airport.
>
> I am making a blanket admonition that it should not be recommended in a
> broadcast forum like this.
>
> In case you haven't figured out, this is a non-negotiable with me ;-) Not
> only am I a iron headed pilot, but I like you, am a warbird pilot, the very
> worst kind!
>
> Still Defending "Don't Turn Back"
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> dougr(at)petroblend.com
> http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Procedure For Installing Engine |
> Is
> there any reason that I should'nt go ahead and install the engine mount
> and engine before I have cut or drilled any holes in the firewall for
> hookup?
That's pretty much what I did. Gets pretty tricky doing some of that
stuff behind the engine -- an angle drill is almost a must! But you are
right, you do need it on to figure out to do most of the holes.
One suggestion I have is to refrain from final torquing the engine
mount-to-firewall nuts/bolts, and retain the option of just taking the
engine with mount off to do some of the stuff. Pretty easy to do if you
have a hoist. (I couldn't do this as I used a borrowed hoist and gave it
back after mounting the engine).
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | circuit breaker switches |
Listers,
Just wondering if anyone else has experienced a problem with Potter
Bromfield circuit breaker switches and no preaching please from the
Nuckolls crowd :-)
When ever I land on a grass strip, the extra vibration during taxi turns
the fuel pump breaker/switch on. I wonder how many other breakers are
automatically switching on that I can't detect. I was easily able to
repeat the fault by testing for an open circuit and shaking the unit.
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John McMahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
TERRY
Would you please give what you can on the vortex generators you are using..
thanks
John McMahon
Terry Burch wrote:
>
> For anyone interested, I have been flying for some time with vortex
> generators one my RV6. They are awesome. Approx.6 mph off the stall
> speed. Almost Nothing lost on the top end. Cleaner stalls, better spin
> entry, and untouchable in a dog fight.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Boost Pump Location |
I saw GV make a post about the boost pump being located on the right side.
First of all, is this on the firewall or the plans location which is just
forward of F-604 in the cabin?
thanks..
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
>
>Cy wrote:
>
><< Air Speed indicator isn't that critical. The airplane never gets to look
>at
> it anyway. If your engine is developing normal power (rpm) and you can
> climb or fly level by trimming or controlling the yoke, you should be able
> to control the plane. Remember, the plane NEVER gets to see the indicator.
>>>
>
>Yeah, but you have to admit that at least some of us would find it spooky to
>fly a pattern and land with no ASI information. (GPS would be some help, but
>could kill you if you didn't take winds aloft into account and got too
slow on
>final). There is no way I would try to land at the short turf strip at home
>with unreliable or absent ASI. If I found myself airborne with a mud dauber
>in my pitot, I'd head for the nearest LONG runway to set her down and rectify
>the problem. And I'd still be nervous about letting the flaps out above the
>white arc. The plane never sees the indicator, but it sees the air flow.
The
>pilot never feels the wind in his face, but the ASI was made to be seen by
the
>pilot, and for good reason.
>
>-BB
One of the nice things about having your own plane is that you can learn to
do without the ASI. There are many cues to airspeed including wind noise,
pre stall buffet and control "heaviness" and many cues that are related to
airspeed such as atitude and power settings. I grew up flying hang-gliders
without ASIs and we did just fine. When I trained for my night license my
instructor spent a lot of time with all the lights turned off which was
initially nerve wracking but eventually gave a lot of satisfaction.
The ASI is a great aid to learning to fly but once you are well trained in
your airplane you don't look at it much because you use all the cues
sub-consciously.
As noted above the one thing you musn't do is use cues that relate to
ground speed (like GPS and looking out the window).
In a familiar aircraft you can fly your usual settings (take off, cruise
climb, descent, circuit, landing) within 2% of the desired airspeed on the
non ASI cues.
The first flight of course is not the time to be without air speed
information (but it's been done).
Leo Davies
(ASI installed)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel Extension |
I have searched the archives and can't find anything on this.
I want to make an extension to the bottom of my panel.
How have folks done this?
What width is practicable? (I notice in the Panel Planner software a
template which shows one about 2 1/2".)
Is anyone using them for anything other than control cables and switches?
(I was messing around with a seven instrument circular cluster which would
put the bottom of the lower instrument into the subpanel)
Has anyone bitten the bullet and carved out a totally new instrument panel
which is wider?
What are peoples experiences with cutting off part of the control stick to
avoid interference with the extended panel?
Is cutting off the stick even necessary even if it would hit the panel?
(How often do people find their hands on the control stick under the
panel?)
Thanks,
Ross Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Main Gear Tires |
Gary,
What type of inner tubes do you have on your main gear tires?
John Henley, N6LD, 90 Hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
> When ever I land on a grass strip, the extra vibration during taxi turns
> the fuel pump breaker/switch on.
You could replace the switch ... maybe with a fuse?? :-)
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
> One of the nice things about having your own plane is that you can learn to
> do without the ASI. There are many cues to airspeed including wind noise,
> pre stall buffet and control "heaviness" and many cues that are related to
> airspeed such as atitude and power settings. I grew up flying hang-gliders
> without ASIs and we did just fine.
Leo: I know you are right. My point is that it requires extra skill and adds
risk; something I don't want when I'm low and slow on final approach. I can
only say that if I ever found myself flying without ASI (like committed to a
takeoff before I realized the mud daubers had packed my pitot full of dirt)
and I was flying from my home strip of 2000 ft, I would head for the 7000
footer 20 miles away to land and rectify the problem. Short field landings
are, in my opinion, no place to attempt a landing by feel alone, where the
risk of porpoising or overshoot is too great, and the pattern down in this
valley is a bit tight for feeling your way along to the safe flap deployment
speed. Granted, these Vspeeds can be arrived at by knowing your manifold
pressure or tach numbers and stabilizing at a level altitude for a few
moments, but this plane takes a long time to slow down and you don't have that
luxury where all operations are semi-max performance maneuvers.
-BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | RV-8 landing gear width |
RV Listers,
I am pondering my workshop situation and trying to decide whether I will
build the fuselage in my basement workshop, or set up a new workshop in the
garage. The deciding factor will be how major a mod I will have to do on
my house to get the fuselage out of the basement.
What is the width of the RV-8 landing gear from the outside edge of one
wheel to the other, with no weight on the gear?
Thanks,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flying Phil's Circus" <sisson(at)ctnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cleveland Brakes; How to Install? |
von you will probably be able to take out the bleed fitting and insert
it in the pressure side if you need to. this makes them actually
interchangeable.
Phil at Litchfield, IL
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
> Listers;
>
> I am currently trying to figure out how the Cleveland Brakes fit onto
> the
> wheel. The plans (woefully inadequate in this area, by the way) show
> the
> brake bleed fitting on the bottom of the brake unit, which I can do on
>
> the right brake, but it would be on top on the left brake. Is there
> supposed to be a right and a left Cleveland brake? If I am looking at
> this correctly, it appears that I have two right side units. Somebody
> tell me I'm not crazy!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Jerry Springer wrote:
> > OK just out of curiosity what speed are you stalling at? Is your
> airplane the one that was at Van's homecoming? What do you mean untouchable
> in a dog fight? What does cleaner stall mean? What does better spin entry
> mean? What is almost nothing lost ontop end. Inquiring minds want to know.
> This is plane that was at Van's.
> I'm not going to quote an airspeed, because this is much to difficult >to accurately
measure. All I am saying is that my Indicated airspeed >went down by
6mph.
> As for dog fighting. Around here,it is the game of the day. We >start in a
2 ship formation. The lead then calls for a 45 turn away >from each other. After
going out 3 or 4 miles the lead calls a turn >back at each other. When the
lead has sight of the other plane, he >calls tally and either calls left on left
or right on right. The >wingman then calls tally when he has a visual and
repeats the command >of left or right. The when the planes pass(sometimes very
close) and >wing spars line up, the fight is on! Now , the winner is the plane
that >can get on the tail of the other plane. It is usually not hard to see
>when you been shot down. This is were the VG's come in handy. Winning >a dog
fight is about max turn rate . He who turns tightest wins! These >turns are constantly
changing plane, thus airspeed. Above maneuvering >speed the turn radius
is determined by how much you or the plane are >willing to pull(ie:the plane
can not be stalled unless the load limit >of the pl!
ane is exceded).Below meneuvering , the turn radius is >deteremend by the stall
speed. This is where I win. When the other >plane stops turning , because it
has reached stall speed , I am still >turning like a mad man. I have beat an
RV4 with 180hp and a CS. This >was Witnessed by 2 other rv 's (referees?). They
said, it looked like >two completely different planes flying against each other.
Unless there >was a great wieght penalty on my part , the plane has never
been beaten in combat.
Stalls. When I say cleaner, I mean that the air stays longer and
>lets go crisper. It also re-attatches much faster. It is something to be >tried
to see what I mean.
Spins. I fly the IAC sportsman routine in my 6. The 3rd maneuver is
a 1 1/4 spin. Before the VG's , the spin would'nt get started until it
was time to recover. Then it was always an overshoot. Now the spins
starts right away and is much more controlable. The recovery is quicker
and more positive.
Topend. As close as I can tell , I may have lost maybe 2 or 3 mph.For
the flying that I do, this minor sacrafice is well worth it.
Terry Burch (rv6man(at)Earthlink.net)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 landing gear width |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Kevin;
Gear width is 70 inches, about 80 inches with tires installed.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au> |
Has anyone had any experience with the dynacam engine or and thoughts on it?
info can be found at http://207.199.58.145/default.html
cheers
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Blast tube cooling: Alternator, Mag |
Listers,
My EAA tech counselor thinks I should have a blast tube cooling my
magnetor and alternator. I tend to agree. I'm trying to figure out how
to do it. My gascolator is alreay cooled via some plastic Van's conduit.
I plan to cool the alternator (modified Mercury Tracer alternator,
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/alternator.htm) with air blowing on
the rectifier diodes, which are in the rear of the alternator. I think I
should take air off the side of the baffling (rather than at the front
entry ramp) to minimize the amount of rain water I dump on my
rectifier.
I'm not sure what part of the magneto needs to be cooled. Any
advice?
Blast tube material: So far the best material I've found for the
alternator and magneto use seems to be some 3003-0 aluminum tubing
(1/2" id, .035" thick) from AC$ called "Versatube". It's less than a
buck a foot, and I only need 2-3', I think, so cost isn't a problem. I
think I can rivet the Versatube to the baffling and bend it to point
where needed. Any other suggestions?
How have listers arranged to support blast tubes to the alternator
and/or magento? Ideas to share, anybody?
Thanks,
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023 on gear, engine mounted
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Van Artsdalen <scott_rv4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Neighbor Complaints |
---Todd Lattimer wrote:
>
> You could offer to take him flying and show him what all the fuss is
about.
> You never know, you might end up helping him buck rivets of his own ;)
>
> cheers
> Todd
I considered that. I don't know for sure because the guy doesn't talk
to anybody. I get the impression that he is suffering from some sort
of macho plane-envy. People come over to ask about my plane, no one
asks about his Harley. My rollaway toolbox is bigger than his, etc.
I'd offer if I thought it would help.
Scott (my rivet gun bangs harder than his impact wrench) VanArtsdalen
==
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 #1054 - Wings
"The essence of character is doing what's right
even when nobody's looking."
J.C. Watts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: circuit breaker switches |
<< Just wondering if anyone else has experienced a problem with Potter
Brumfield circuit breaker switches >>
I used 6 of them in my old Kitfox model 1. I never had problem one with them.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wheel Nut Installation |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
In installing my wheel nuts onto the axle, the holes in the axle(for the
cotter pin) are nowhere near to lining up with the holes in the wheel
nut. Am I supposed to drill new holes into the axle for the cotter pins
after determining the proper tightness against the wheel itself? The
predrilled holes in the axle are clear out near the outer end of the axle
itself. I believe these axles are made out of anodized aluminum (RV-8),
so I guess it would be easy to drill the new hole. Opinions?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
I am afraid that if you own an airplane you had better learn to fly it by
feel. Having a long runway is false security. You can always come in under
power a little fast and if you feel you don't have enough runway, go round.
Try it next time with less power. Once you feel you have a good approach
and speed, land. If you can't land in 2000 foot, you don't know how to fly
your airplane. I know Van does his test flying from less than 900 feet. Get
to know your airplane. You can't always pick what and when goes wrong. Get
to know your airplane.
-----Original Message-----
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gyro Flight Instrument
>
>
>
>> One of the nice things about having your own plane is that you can learn
to
>> do without the ASI. There are many cues to airspeed including wind
noise,
>> pre stall buffet and control "heaviness" and many cues that are related
to
>> airspeed such as atitude and power settings. I grew up flying
hang-gliders
>> without ASIs and we did just fine.
>
>Leo: I know you are right. My point is that it requires extra skill and
adds
>risk; something I don't want when I'm low and slow on final approach. I
can
>only say that if I ever found myself flying without ASI (like committed to
a
>takeoff before I realized the mud daubers had packed my pitot full of dirt)
>and I was flying from my home strip of 2000 ft, I would head for the 7000
>footer 20 miles away to land and rectify the problem. Short field landings
>are, in my opinion, no place to attempt a landing by feel alone, where the
>risk of porpoising or overshoot is too great, and the pattern down in this
>valley is a bit tight for feeling your way along to the safe flap
deployment
>speed. Granted, these Vspeeds can be arrived at by knowing your manifold
>pressure or tach numbers and stabilizing at a level altitude for a few
>moments, but this plane takes a long time to slow down and you don't have
that
>luxury where all operations are semi-max performance maneuvers.
>
>-BB
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "albert poon" <albertp(at)bigpond.com> |
dear listers
Re: installation of sigmatek vac pump on my 0-320 in my rv6. there are two
in-ports, one for each way the engine turns(cw and ccw). the installation
instructions call for an exhaust vent line which must be directed vertically
downwards 12". But i can't find any other port on it. My engine manual shows
the vac pump rotates CCW . Can I assume that the other IN port will
therefore serve as the exhaust port??
Shall appreciate any advice
Thanks
regards albert
albertp(at)bigpond.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Duckworks landing Light |
Has anyone purchased a Duckworks light for installation in an RV-8?
I bought one from Vans only to find that the mounting bracket is too short
to fit in the outboard bay of the -8. The Installation
instructions mention this and state that there are instructions in a later
section on how to remedy this, but there are no such instructions.
jwentz at Duckworks has not responded to email.
Looks to me like fabricating a mounting bracket from scratch would solve the
problem, but would appreciate any suggestions from anyone who has already
faced and fixed it.
George Kilishek
#80006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 landing gear width |
Can't you take the landing gear off? Reassemble when out?
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 9:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-8 landing gear width
>
>RV Listers,
>
>I am pondering my workshop situation and trying to decide whether I will
>build the fuselage in my basement workshop, or set up a new workshop in the
>garage. The deciding factor will be how major a mod I will have to do on
>my house to get the fuselage out of the basement.
>
>What is the width of the RV-8 landing gear from the outside edge of one
>wheel to the other, with no weight on the gear?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
>khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>Ottawa, Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Loren D. Jones" <Loren(at)LorenJones.com> |
| Subject: | Re: The turn-back |
>
>But low altitude practise is risky if not dangerous and I
>saw enough re-evaluate the risk/reward and raise my limit to 600' AGL. I
>would suggest anyone contemplating turn-backs find a way to practise their
>plan under realistic but extreme conditions before they bet their life on
>it. It certainly made me rethink things.
In glider flying they hammer into your head the 200' AGL minimum before a
turn-back is possible. Anything less is straight ahead. Recognizing that
gliders have at least 3 to 4 times (or more) the glide ratio than the
average GA aircraft, and that they approach at significantly slower speeds,
and have spoilers to bleed off excess altitude when needed, 600' would seem
to be a bare minimum for most GA aircraft. 800' may be more like it. But
unless you consciously apply the rule on EVERY flight, have prepared for it
and make an audible call-out to yourself every time you pass 800', the safer
bet is to follow Doug's advice and just always plan on a straight ahead
landing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DWAIN L. HARRIS" <102617.2606(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Golden West Fly-In |
Thank You
My Blue RV has a total of 70 hrs. With the 180 cs she cruises right
along, She is
is a delight to fly. Good Luck on yours.
Dwain Harris
N164DH
Whiteman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anthony K. Self" <chevy_truck(at)email.msn.com> |
I noticed a while back that N58RV on the cover of KITPLANES was a tail
dragger. The background photo on my desktop is of N58RV and I've been using
it for several months. This photo, though, of N58RV is in tri-gear form. Was
this plane built one way and then converted? I believe it was in taildragger
form when it crashed, and I thought it started life as a taildragger. Did
Van's changer it over to a tri and then back again? Any new official info.
about the investigation?
Anthony K. Self
RV8 start this winter hopefully
CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Finished trim tab and related work on L Elev |
This is one of those "I am happy" e-mails, kind of like "first flight":
I finished my RV-6 trim tab and installation on left elevator, and have
bent the ears/tabs on elevator - came out with 1/8 inche spacing plus
1/32 - shop tolerance for RVs.
I followed my plan that I posted the other day - with some additions.
I'm going to revise my "Left Elevator" document on Frank van der Hulst's
"Bunny's Guide to Building RVs" to include more of "how I really did
it" stuff on left elevator & trim tab.
I drove 4 solid rivets on top skin on 4 outboard holes of rear spar and
also drove solit rivets on top skin on 2 aft/inboard holes of
counter-balance weight. Will only use pop rivets on bottom skin where
they won't show.
Sorry to waste space on the list for this - but, I am happy (no thanks
to Builder's Manual)
David Carter, RV6 left elevator, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Conley <cell1pilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Anthony;
You may want to take a closer look. I believe Van's tricycle gear
RV-8 is N58VA instead of N58RV
John Conley
Flying RV-4 N969BS
Building RV-6(A?) N775RV Reserved
---"Anthony K. Self" wrote:
>
>
> I noticed a while back that N58RV on the cover of KITPLANES was a tail
> dragger. The background photo on my desktop is of N58RV and I've
been using
> it for several months. This photo, though, of N58RV is in tri-gear
form. Was
> this plane built one way and then converted? I believe it was in
taildragger
> form when it crashed, and I thought it started life as a
taildragger. Did
> Van's changer it over to a tri and then back again? Any new official
info.
> about the investigation?
>
> Anthony K. Self
> RV8 start this winter hopefully
> CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==
John Conley - K7DMM
RV-6A QB
N744JC (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Extension |
Hi Ross and all
I did this to my four. I wanted all the radio's in the panel and I also
have all the gyros as well. This makes for a crowded panel in a four.
I didn't want the radio, transponder etc between my feet.
I added a 2 1/2 " panel to the bottom of the standard four panel. THis made
cutting the stick off a little bit a necessity. I haven't flown any other
RV's so I don't know if It makes alot of differeance in the sensitiviy of
the control feel. I haven't had any problems with it though.
Although this works well for me, (I'm 5'9") I have had other taller pilots
sit in the airplane and their knees hit the bottom of the panel.
Made lots of room for a storage, small luggage container on top of the
battery as well.
Joe Hine
RV-4 C-FYTQ
>
>I want to make an extension to the bottom of my panel.
>
>How have folks done this?
>What width is practicable? (I notice in the Panel Planner software a
>template which shows one about 2 1/2".)
>Is anyone using them for anything other than control cables and switches?
>(I was messing around with a seven instrument circular cluster which would
>put the bottom of the lower instrument into the subpanel)
>Has anyone bitten the bullet and carved out a totally new instrument panel
>which is wider?
>What are peoples experiences with cutting off part of the control stick to
>avoid interference with the extended panel?
>Is cutting off the stick even necessary even if it would hit the panel?
>(How often do people find their hands on the control stick under the
>panel?)
>
>Thanks,
>
>Ross Mickey
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Partain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com> |
For Sale 1995 RV-4 185 TTSN , 0320 D1A 160 HP, 185TTSN , Hartzell C/S Prop
185 TTSN, K/N Air Filter, Stainless exhaust pipes with crossover . Single
heater muff. Carburetor heat. Alternator cooling tube, Magneto cooling
tubes, Piper oil cooler, Fuel primer.
Terra 760D Com ,Terra 250D xpdr ,Apollo 360 moving map GPS ,ELT , PSII 1000
intercom, Vertical card compass, Altimeter, VSI ,Electronics International
CHT EGT OAT , Oil Pressure, Fuel pressure, Amp/Volt meter, Electronic Tach,
Lighting on All instruments with dimmer switch.
Navigation Lights, Rear position light, Strobes on wing tips, Dual landing
Lights enclosed in wing tips, Electric Flaps, Locking canopy (keyed same as
ignition), Wood stick grip,
Cabin heat with front and rear outlets, Two fresh air vents located on
canopy skirt.
Professional Paint, White with Blue stripping, Interior panels light Grey
with medium Grey Leather seats
Temper foam, Dark Gray Carpet , Firewall
insulation ,CD player
This is a very nice plane, always kept in a hanger and professionally
maintained. All avionics purchased new November 1996 and installed
professionally.
All plans and instrument documentation. Complete Logs
Cruise 187 mph @ 8.5 gph
Annual due 8/98
$55,000.00
Price includes 8/98 annual (Inspection Complete)
Tony Partain
314-894-0828
Saint Louis MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
Cy Galley wrote:
>
>
> I am afraid that if you own an airplane you had better learn to fly it by
> feel. Having a long runway is false security. You can always come in under
> power a little fast and if you feel you don't have enough runway, go round.
> Try it next time with less power. Once you feel you have a good approach
> and speed, land. If you can't land in 2000 foot, you don't know how to fly
> your airplane. I know Van does his test flying from less than 900 feet. Get
> to know your airplane. You can't always pick what and when goes wrong. Get
> to know your airplane.
>
Cy
You are right about learning to fly your airplane by feel, I would not
be afraid to land my -6 in ANY airport with out a ASI it is no big deal.
My reason for this post is to correct the statement about Van testing
from a airstrip less than 900 hundred feet. this is way to long, his
original airstrip was about 600 ft.(g)but he has not used that
airstrip for quite a few years, maybe 15-20 years. I landed there once
in about 1971, and it certainly was short. He used to fly his RV-3 from
there all the time. the strip he used now, Sunset, is over 2000 ft long.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
---Craig Hiers wrote:
>
>
> Listers
> Can some of you tell where you have routed the crankcase vent line?
> I had mine routed to drip on the exhaust via a metal tube at the end
> of the 5/8" rubber hose. The EAA Tech counselor did not think much
> of this idea and suggested I find another way.
>
> My Airworthiness inspection is in 5 weeks, any hints on what some
> some of you experienced going through this? you know, the little
> things that the inspector wanted changed, rebuilt, reworked, added,
> removed etc. I'm a little apprehensive about this, after all 5 years
> of work and untold amounts of money comes down to whether one guy
likes
> it or not.
>
> Craig Hiers
> RV-4 N143CH
> Tallahassee,FL.
> Getting close, getting nervous......
Craig:
I have been flying my RV-6 for one year and 250 hours. I have the
rubber hose doing right to the top of the right exhaust stack where it
exits from the cowl. This works great or has for the last almost 250
flying hours. BTW: I am an EAA Tech Counselor (# 3812) and would
recommend that you do it as you have listed above.
==
Gary A. Sobek
RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JamesCone(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Extension |
I made a switch panel and by making a "U" shaped channel 1 7/8" high with a 1"
flange to attach to the bottom of the instrument panel and a 1/2" flange on
the bottom for stiffness. I used Potter-Brumfield CB switches and they fit
just fine. I also mounted my throttle, mixture, and carb heat and all of my
regular CB's on the subpanel. I am doing my new QB differently by making the
panel in three sections. One for switches, one for controls, and one for
CB's. I found out that you can't remove a panel easily if a cable control is
mounted on it. By keeping all of the cable controls on a separate panel, I
can remove the switch or CB panel for maintenance by just unscrewing it from
the instrument panel.
Jim Cone
RV-6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 manual aileron trim |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I am studying the RV-8 fuselage options in preparation to ordering the
>fuselage kit. One option is aileron trim, manual or electric. Where
>does
>the manual aileron trim control lever mount? Is it on the bottom of
>the
>stick like the -4 and -6, or somewhere else?
>
It is a side cover plate that mounts directly under the left pilot arm
rest. It is very intuitive to use. It is a lever that moves up and down
beside the pilot. If you need to "lift" the left wing for trim (left
wing heavy) you lift on the lever. If you need to lower the left wing
for trim
(right wing heavy) you lower the lever.
>Can anyone comment on the weight difference between manual and
>electric
>aileron trim
(the new design with springs , not the one that puts a
>tab on
>the aileron).
>
This one would be a very hard call to make.
I don't think we ever weighed all the parts to compare, but I'll try to
remember to ask Ken K.
Without weighing them I would guess they were just about identical in
weight.
The manual elevator trim is for certain heavier that the electric.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing Light |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
George;
It has been last winter since I installed my Duckworks landing lights in
both wings; I was happy with the way they came out, but I do remember the
error in the instructions. As I recall it said' see page so and so for
RV-8 instructions', but there was no such page. I just spent some time
thinking about it, and realized how it was supposed to work. There is a
short 'el' shaped piece of aluminum that is overlapped onto the larger
piece until both ends meet the ribs, and then riveted. E-mail me direct
if you want more details, but I am guessing someone will respond who has
just gone through it. It baffles me why someone would take so long to
correct a simple mistake in their instructions! Oh well, all the more of
a challenge for us, I guess!
Between all of us helping each other on this list, we're going to turn
out a great bunch of airplanes!
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 landing gear width |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>Can't you take the landing gear off? Reassemble when out?
>
Or do as much construction as possible in the basement and then fit the
gear when you have gotten it out.
Anyone building an RV-8 from a Quick build kit gets a fuselage that is
quite far along in the assembly process, but they still have to fit the
gear themselves after they receive it.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I noticed a while back that N58RV on the cover of KITPLANES was a tail
>dragger. The background photo on my desktop is of N58RV and I've been
>using
>it for several months. This photo, though, of N58RV is in tri-gear
>form.
Look closer at the N #.
The tri-gear RV-8A is... N58VA.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Boost Pump Location |
<< I saw GV make a post about the boost pump being located on the right side.
First of all, is this on the firewall or the plans location which is just
forward of F-604 in the cabin? >>
Sorry I wasn't clear, Paul. I would put it in the same place the plans call
for (just ahead of the spar) except I would put it on the right side. Some
people put it in the center near the selector valve, too. The main thing I
was emphasizing was that bringing the fuel line in on the right side of the
firewall is beneficial due to the position of the mechanical fuel pump inlet
port.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Extension |
<< I want to make an extension to the bottom of my panel.....Has anyone bitten
the bullet and carved out a totally new instrument panel which is wider?>>
Yes, this is quite common. I think that Chief Aircraft does some that are
2.5" taller (at the bottom) for customers.
<< What are peoples experiences with cutting off part of the control stick to
avoid interference with the extended panel? Is cutting off the stick even
necessary even if it would hit the panel? >>
Many people cut their sticks to clear, just be conservative here. Cut just
enough to clear everything with your hand on the stick at all the limits of
travel. Mine are about 3" shorter than standard (but keep in mind that the
Northwest teak grips stick quite a bit above the end of the steel tube. The
shorter you cut the sticks, the stiffer the control feel will be and
aggressive aerobatics will be harder on your arm due to the reduced moment.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Listers; In installing my wheel nuts onto the axle, the holes in the
>axle(for the cotter pin) are nowhere near to lining up with the holes
>in the wheel nut. Am I supposed to drill new holes into the axle for
>the cotter pins after determining the proper tightness against the
>wheel itself? The predrilled holes in the axle are clear out near the
>outer end of the axle
>itself. I believe these axles are made out of anodized aluminum
>(RV-8),
>so I guess it would be easy to drill the new hole. Opinions?
>
>Von Alexander
>
Von,
You should drill new holes in the axle nut, not in the axle it self.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing Light |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Has anyone purchased a Duckworks light for installation in an RV-8?
>
>I bought one from Vans only to find that the mounting bracket is too
>short
>to fit in the outboard bay of the -8. The Installation
>instructions mention this and state that there are instructions in a
>later
>section on how to remedy this, but there are no such instructions.
>
> jwentz at Duckworks has not responded to email.
>
>Looks to me like fabricating a mounting bracket from scratch would
>solve the
>problem, but would appreciate any suggestions from anyone who has
>already
>faced and fixed it.
>
>George Kilishek
>#80006
>
Try E-mailing them again.
They are great people and I know that they will take care of it for you.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>
>I am afraid that if you own an airplane you had better learn to fly it
>by
>feel. Having a long runway is false security. You can always come in
>under
>power a little fast and if you feel you don't have enough runway, go
>round.
>Try it next time with less power. Once you feel you have a good
>approach
>and speed, land. If you can't land in 2000 foot, you don't know how
>to fly
>your airplane. I know Van does his test flying from less than 900
>feet. Get
>to know your airplane. You can't always pick what and when goes
>wrong. Get
>to know your airplane.
>
I agree with everything you said except that the strip at Van's is about
3000 ft long. But of course all of us that fly the company planes only
need to use 900 ft of it :-) .
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing Light |
>>Has anyone purchased a Duckworks light for installation in an RV-8?
I bought one from Vans only to find that the mounting bracket is too short
to fit in the outboard bay of the -8. The Installation
instructions mention this and state that there are instructions in a later
section on how to remedy this, but there are no such instructions.
jwentz at Duckworks has not responded to email.
Looks to me like fabricating a mounting bracket from scratch would solve the
problem, but would appreciate any suggestions from anyone who has already
faced and fixed it.
George Kilishek
#80006<<
George,
You have two choices, one of which is indicated in your instructions. One,
mount them in the 2nd bay in from the tip. Two, contact Don Wentz and he'll
be happy to swap your mounts out for longer ones designed for the RV-8 outer
bay.
Hang in there, I'm sure he'll respond to the e-mail.
Regards,
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, N558RL reserved, finishing wings
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: vac pump installation |
<< Installation of sigmatek vac pump on my 0-320 in my rv6. there are two
in-ports, one for each way the engine turns(cw and ccw). the installation
instructions call for an exhaust vent line which must be directed vertically
downwards 12". But i can't find any other port on it. My engine manual shows
the vac pump rotates CCW . Can I assume that the other IN port will
therefore serve as the exhaust port?? >>
Yes, it's all relative.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Blast tube cooling: Alternator, Mag |
<< I'm not sure what part of the magneto needs to be cooled. Any
advice? >>
Tim-
I used the corrugated 5/8" tubes Van's sells. They are directed at the center
part of the magneto main body (not the distributor portion). This is where
most of the heat resides.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford) |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing Light |
>
>
>Has anyone purchased a Duckworks light for installation in an RV-8?
>
>I bought one from Vans only to find that the mounting bracket is too short
>to fit in the outboard bay of the -8. The Installation
>instructions mention this and state that there are instructions in a later
>section on how to remedy this, but there are no such instructions.
>
> jwentz at Duckworks has not responded to email.
>
>Looks to me like fabricating a mounting bracket from scratch would solve the
>problem, but would appreciate any suggestions from anyone who has already
>faced and fixed it.
>
>George Kilishek
>#80006
>
The instructions have been updated on my kit and say to lengthen the mount
as necessary using .032" angle appx. 5/8 x 5/8 x 2-3" in length. Either
that or install them in the next inboard bay which is "normal" sized.
It's a really easy kit. I just finished mine on my -6. Turned out very nice.
>
>
>
>
Jon Elford
RV6 #25201
Banks, OR
Fuel tanks, misc. wing crap...
LANDING LIGHTS COMPLETE!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Extension |
Ross, I added a two inch extenstion across the entire bottom of the
panel to hold amongst other things. 16 electric switch/Circuit
breakers, my two fuelquantity indicators and the air nozzels on the
ends. Everyone who has commented on it think it looks great. It
certainly frees up the bottom of the instrument panel and gives you more
flexibility on how to use the panel. I make my lower panel detachable
with three structural screws. Also, I extended its length until each end
was approx 1/4" from the skin. In hindsight, that is the only thing I
would change as it makes it real tight getting the panel in and out. I
would probably leave 1/2" clearance on each end.
I am 5'9' of average proportions and find no problem with leg
clearances, however someone taller than say 6'3 might have to be
careful when setting into the seat so that their knees do smack into the
lower panel. I have offset my lower panel about 3/4" or so back from
the plane of the main panel which helps with knee clearance and looks
better.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW (1st flight 21 Sept - second flight this weekend)
Ross Mickey wrote:
>
> -
> I want to make an extension to the bottom of my panel.
>
> How have folks done this?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
I purchased my Attitude indicator several years ago, but only recently
had it spinning under vacuum. I recall some postings about the
lubricant in a gyro leaking out or otherwise failing if they are not put
in use quickly. I have one that comes about 9/10 erect, but last time I
killed the engine, I heard this "whrill" sound and the attitude
indicator was spinning almost as fast as my propeller had been. No I
don't mean its gyro was spinning, the indicator itself was whrilling
around in the instrument. I am afeared that this is probably an
indication that the gyro has frozen in its gimbals? Anyone care to
hazard a theory. Is it dead? Should I bury it or could there be
different reason for its bazzar behavior??
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David S. Hamilton" <hamlton(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Seattle Area Builders |
I just learned that I'll be in Seattle for two weeks in the middle of
December. I'd like to meet fellow buliders and see some projects
(especially RV-8s). I'll be going through 737 school at Boeing so free
time will be limited, but I can't study all the time:)
Any builders out there within a reasonable distance that would like to show
off their projects please email me off line.
Thanks,
Dave Hamilton
RV-8 (80001)
N880RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
rather than drill, I'd use a washer or spacer. Is a spacer supposed to be
on the inside that you have left off?
-----Original Message-----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 10:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wheel Nut Installation
>
>Listers;
>
>In installing my wheel nuts onto the axle, the holes in the axle(for the
>cotter pin) are nowhere near to lining up with the holes in the wheel
>nut. Am I supposed to drill new holes into the axle for the cotter pins
>after determining the proper tightness against the wheel itself? The
>predrilled holes in the axle are clear out near the outer end of the axle
>itself. I believe these axles are made out of anodized aluminum (RV-8),
>so I guess it would be easy to drill the new hole. Opinions?
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
| Subject: | business use of an RV |
...just wondering if an experimental could be owned and operated by a
business, thereby gaining some tax advantages. i am not talking about a sham
company/liability shield, etc. what i mean is if i had my own company could
i, the individual who built the rv, sell it to my own company, and then use
it for business travel for myself, etc. would this fall under the
prohibition of operating for hire? anybody ever try it?
as an alternative, if the individual retained the ownership, but used the
aircraft for business travel, would the expenses incurred be deductible
(including pro rata maintenance, hangar fees, etc.), or is this considered
operating for hire?
Louis Cappucci
Mamaroneck, NY
6AQB - unpacking
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Problem |
Anderson Ed wrote:
>
> don't mean its gyro was spinning, the indicator itself was whrilling
> around in the instrument. I am afeared that this is probably an
> indication that the gyro has frozen in its gimbals? Anyone care to
> hazard a theory. Is it dead? Should I bury it or could there be
> different reason for its bazzar behavior??
I think you are correctly afeared. My new RC Allen did that the first
time I spun it up after sitting for about 18 months. The factory found
something and as bonus shimmed it for the panel tilt at the same time.
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/tailwheel/>
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Blast tube cooling: Alternator, Mag |
<< How have listers arranged to support blast tubes to the alternator
and/or magento? Ideas to share, anybody? >>
Tim:
We use that blue corrigated flex conduit from Home Depot/Builders Square. It
can be formed while hot (with a heat gun) and it will retain this shape when
it cools. Drill a hole the same dia as the smaller dia of the corrigation,
heat the end, pop it in, and re-shape the end with a gloved finger. A dab of
RTV holds the tube from rotating. $1.79 for 8' of the stuff.
You want to cool the coils of your mags.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chat Daniel" <cdaniel(at)fnbbaldwin.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Terry....
Just a word of caution about amateur dogfighting....I recently was doing
the same in a T34. I was on the other T34 and feeling very aggressive
about putting him away. I followed him over the top of a loop when I felt
the plane shutter. I ignored that and continued to pull thinking just a
little more and I would have him. The stick went soft, the plane entered
an accellerated stall from an inverted possition. The next thing I saw was
my shaddow coming down on the top of a cloud. Have you ever entered a
cloud, inverted, and out of control? Not a lot of fun.
Anyway, start with plenty of alt, and dont let your fighter jock
aggressiveness take over and ruin your day. By the way, an aggressive
verticle first turn will get em everytime.
Chat Daniel
RV8 678RV (reserved)
----------
> From: Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: VG's on RV's
> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 9:18 PM
>
>
> As for dog fighting. Around here,it is the game of the day. We >start
in a 2 ship
>
>
> Topend. As close as I can tell , I may have lost maybe 2 or 3 mph.For
> the flying that I do, this minor sacrafice is well worth it.
>
> Terry Burch (rv6man(at)Earthlink.net)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chat Daniel" <cdaniel(at)fnbbaldwin.com> |
You may be confusing N58RV which was a tail dragger with N58VA which is the
factory -8A. They have identical paint jobs.
Chat Daniel
RV8 678RV(reserved)
----------
> From: Anthony K. Self <chevy_truck(at)email.msn.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: N58RV
> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 10:40 PM
>
>
> I noticed a while back that N58RV on the cover of KITPLANES was a tail
> dragger. The background photo on my desktop is of N58RV and I've been
using
> it for several months. This photo, though, of N58RV is in tri-gear form.
Was
> this plane built one way and then converted? I believe it was in
taildragger
> form when it crashed, and I thought it started life as a taildragger. Did
> Van's changer it over to a tri and then back again? Any new official
info.
> about the investigation?
>
> Anthony K. Self
> RV8 start this winter hopefully
> CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Scott and Others;
If I cover the existing holes in the axle with the axle nut in its proper
position, how do I know where to drill the hole in the axle nut? The hole
in the axle itself is covered then. It looks like my axle nut needs to
back off of the wheel by about 1/4" in order to use the existing holes on
both pieces. Should I just use thick washers instead? Is anyone else
having problems with the holes drilled in the wrong place?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
I thought I would post this as a builder's hint.
When you pull a CS4-4 with a pop riveter, you get a little mound when the
"nail" pulls through and you need to file it to get it down. I found that
you can use a #4 blind nut that you can get in any RC modeler shop you can
get an almost flat rivet that requires little to no filing.. The #4 blind
nut fits the nail closer than the pop rivet so that the rivet is deformed
less just prior to the nail separating. Put the #4 blind nut on the rivet
with the flare towards the rivet. The blind nut may pull into the riveter on
the first one but it will stop and not jam. Finish your riveting and you can
pull out the blind nut with a pliers.
Bob
RV8 #423 working on the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 landing gear width |
>
>
>>
>>Can't you take the landing gear off? Reassemble when out?
>>
>Or do as much construction as possible in the basement and then fit the
>gear when you have gotten it out.
>Anyone building an RV-8 from a Quick build kit gets a fuselage that is
>quite far along in the assembly process, but they still have to fit the
>gear themselves after they receive it.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
How far can I reasonably take the fuselage and finishing kit before putting
the landing gear on (RV-8)? I assume that I need the LG on to do the
engine installation.
Thanks,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net> |
subscribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Problem |
Terry Jantzi wrote:
>
>Thanks Terry,
Guess I have to bite the bullet and send it back.
Ed
>
> I think you are correctly afeared. My new RC Allen did that the first
> time I spun it up after sitting for about 18 months. The factory found
> something and as bonus shimmed it for the panel tilt at the same time.
>
> --
> Terry Jantzi
> Kitchener ON
> RV-6 C-GZRV
>
> <http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/tailwheel/>
> <http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 quickbuild question |
I have an RV-8 Quickbuild. I have not yet started on my wings, but I was
wondering, how do I get a flop tube into the tanks? Is there a kit or something?
--
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Extension |
If an extension is added on that is recessed back from the main panel like
Ed mentions, you will not have to cut your control stick off so much. Be
aware that deep drop down sections in the middle of the panel on -6/6As
and/or the sides on others might restrict your sideways leg movements to the
point of limiting the control stick deflections. I have sat in one such -6,
and have seen others, that I would feel uncomfortable flying low and slow
where maximum deflections might be needed. And my legs are not very big.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Anderson Ed <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Instrument Panel Extension
>
>Ross, I added a two inch extenstion across the entire bottom >
>I am 5'9' of average proportions and find no problem with leg
>clearances, however someone taller than say 6'3 might have to be
>careful when setting into the seat so that their knees do smack into the
>lower panel. I have offset my lower panel about 3/4" or so back from
>the plane of the main panel which helps with knee clearance and looks
>better.
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW (1st flight 21 Sept - second flight this weekend)
>
>Ross Mickey wrote:
>> -
>> I want to make an extension to the bottom of my panel.
>> How have folks done this?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Turn back or straight ahead |
I have been following the turn-back discussion with more than passing
interest. This is one of those times I wish I could contribute anonymously,
but anyway, heres what happened.
My flying for the last few years has been almost entirely in a friends
Cessna 185F on amphibious floats. He keeps it here at Kenmore Air Harbor,
and we try to go someplace like Arlington or Port Townsend for lunch once a
week, but sometimes it gets to be less than once a month. We trade off time
in the left seat. If he flies out in the left seat, I fly back in the left
seat and get the water landing. Usually, we shoot a few touch and gos at
the airport to keep up to date with the land landings.
One day this spring it was my turn to fly out from Kenmore. We went to
Arlington, where I proceeded to get my two or three land touch and gos in
before lunch. On takeoff after the first one, I went through the usual
routine of establish climb airspeed, gear up, flaps up, throttle back for
noise abatement and then reduce the prop rpm. Everything went fine except
for the prop ... it didnt respond to my gentle pull on the control. So I
pulled some more ... and the engine sputtered and quit. We were probably
around 300 or 400 feet AGL, and let me tell you that the temptation to turn
back to that big paved runway was extreme, but the only thing I did right
that day was to commit to straight-ahead.
I was trying to establish 75 knots glide speed and pick a spot when I
realized that my right hand was on the mixture knob, not the prop control.
The prop was still turning, and with the mixture in, power came back and the
emergency was over.
With all the weight and windage of those big floats, I doubt very much if we
would have survived turning back, but the temptation was surprisingly
strong.
I got away with my lack of proficiency that time. My only satisfaction out
of the whole thing was that the engine noise stopped, my friend and I said
in unison, Straight ahead!
Yes, he still lets me take my turn in the left seat, but I have noticed that
he watches me a little more closely than he used to.
Terry Watson
Seattle RV-8 rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Boost Pump Location |
> I would put it in the same place the plans call
> for (just ahead of the spar) except I would put it on the right side. Some
> people put it in the center near the selector valve, too.
[snip]
One thing to remember is wherever you put it you should try to orient it
on a diagonal or vertical, not horizontal. The manufacturer specifies
this in their directions but doesn't explain why; I called them and they
said the piston will wear unevenly if installed flat, resulting in
shorter service life. Of course these things are designed to be run
continuously on cars (thousands of hours), so "shortened life" in our
situation probably isn't that big an issue. Just something to keep in
mind is all.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
bill,
> ----------
> From: William G. Knight[SMTP:wknight(at)adelphia.net]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 11:07 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> subscribe
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Young <gyoung(at)bcm.tmc.edu> |
| Subject: | business use of an RV |
Louis,
I just recently had similar questions when I started flying my Citabria on
business for my company. I called AOPA to check. The short answer is there
are no restrictions on the use nor on the reimbursement as long as the
flight is incidental to the business. My business is software development
so the distinction is very clear but my understanding is even aircraft
sales demo flights can qualify. I can get reimbursed at whatever level I
can convince my partners to shell out and can carry passengers as well, all
without a commercial ticket. You might want to check with AOPA on your
specific plans.
Greg Young
RV-6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy
>
> ...just wondering if an experimental could be owned and operated by a
> business, thereby gaining some tax advantages. i am not talking about a
sham
> company/liability shield, etc. what i mean is if i had my own company
could
> i, the individual who built the rv, sell it to my own company, and then
use
> it for business travel for myself, etc. would this fall under the
> prohibition of operating for hire? anybody ever try it?
>
> as an alternative, if the individual retained the ownership, but used the
> aircraft for business travel, would the expenses incurred be deductible
> (including pro rata maintenance, hangar fees, etc.), or is this
considered
> operating for hire?
>
> Louis Cappucci
> Mamaroneck, NY
> 6AQB - unpacking
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: The turn-back |
I think I would turn back from 300 feet if straight ahead meant *CERTAIN* death.
No one ever mentions this as tho straight ahead meant landing in a corn field or
some other such soft spot.
When straight ahead is a parking lot full of cars, for example, turning back
might at least have some hope.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: business use of an RV |
Hi,
You probably ought to visit your accountant, lawyer and insurance man.
I have thought some about this but done no research. I believe you have to be
an individual, not a business, to be the builder and repairman of your
homebuilt. After it is built, however, I can't see why you couldn't sell it to
your business if it is a corporation. If it isn't a corporation it would
probably pay you to incorporate.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
> I have been flying my RV-6 for one year and 250 hours. I have the
> rubber hose doing right to the top of the right exhaust stack where it
> exits from the cowl. This works great or has for the last almost 250
> flying hours. BTW: I am an EAA Tech Counselor (# 3812) and would
> recommend that you do it as you have listed above.
I have also heard of people having trouble from inspectors about
dripping it on your exhaust. Can someone elaborate on why this is
a concern? Or why it any percieved concern is bogus?
It's nice to hear that people are doing it and don't have problems,
but if there is a chance of fire or something as a result of doing
this I'd like to know about it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://ww.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: business use of an RV |
Yes, the aircraft could be used for business purposes (i.e., transportation of
you or your employees) as long as you do not profit from the operation of the
aircraft.
As you know, a business cannot be the builder of an experimental aircraft, it
must be built an individual or group of individuals for the "education and
recreation" of the builders. However, after the aircraft has received its
airworthiness certificate from the FAA the aircraft could be sold the
business.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: business use of an RV |
My 0.02 worth is that I understand that certification justification for
a "Homebuilt" is for Educational purposes. That would and other rules
indicate that a "Homebuilt" may not be used in any endevor that involves
"compensation." Now whether "Compensation" covers leasing it back to the
builder for business purposes - only the lawyers might know.
Ed
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
> After it is built, however, I can't see why you couldn't sell it to
> your business if it is a corporation. If it isn't a corporation it would
> probably pay you to incorporate.
>
> hal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Gyro Flight Instrument |
<< You can't always pick what and when goes
>wrong. Get
>to know your airplane.
>
I agree with everything you said except that the strip at Van's is about
3000 ft long. But of course all of us that fly the company planes only
need to use 900 ft of it :-) . >>
Gentlemen, gentlemen. Points well taken. I will make this brief, since 1) it
clogs the archives and 2) it is self- defense, which sometimes becomes self-
pity and makes an ugly spectacle.
I have proven to myself that I CAN land the plane in 900 ft. every time. I
have also learned the hard way about porpoising this plane (witness the dye
check I did on the nose gear so I could sleep at night). The Factory says
this comes in part from landing too fast. It is not (read: NOT ) pleasant.
Ask Fred. I have no experience in stall/spin accidents on final from coming
in too slowly, nor do I desire any. So far, in my vast 30 hours of RV time, I
have not gained the necessary skill to fly the plane by feel alone. I haven't
practiced turning back dead-stick to the runway, either. It occurs to me
these maneuvers are similar. Without practice, I would not recommend a
deadstick turn-back _or a non-ASI landing on a short runway _ to a low-time
pilot. Just my personal opinion, nothing more.
I admit to being a weenie who has scared himself a time or two in this plane
and has spent too little time mastering it to try the stunts which many of
you consider routine. In my later years, as I devote less time to medicine
and more time to proficiency in avaition, I, too, will come to pity the poor
newbies who are airspeed-challenged and can't land the -6A blindfolded. But
this is now, and things must remain as they are for the time being. So, my
kind brethren, indulge me in my airspeed-anxiety while I sort out what I've
gotten myself into by building this beautiful high-performance dream machine.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Duckworks landing Light |
Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Has anyone purchased a Duckworks light for installation in an RV-8?<
Just installed one in each wing. The bay is about 14" wide and if you try
to rivet the two brackets together you will have next to no edge distance
because they will overlap very little. I riveted a 2"x2" piece of aluminum
the same thickness of the mount (.032?) about 1/2" from the edge of the
larger peice. It was spaced so that it would but up against the smaller
piece when it was placed at the proper width. I then riveted a doubler to
both parts. Worked fine. Looked something like this.
_______ ____________|
Scott A. Jordan
80331
Fitting flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Nashville Fly-In(Forecast) |
It is shaping up to be a spectacular weekend here. Highs in the 70s and
mostly clear. I understand(from David Hudgins) responses have been coming
in from Colorado, Texas, Florida, Ontario(?) and all over. Most likely will
break last years record. Should be a great weekend. If you haven't already
made plans and you can come, come on!
Fly in location is Lebanon, TN just east of Nashville.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Blast tube cooling: Alternator, Mag |
>Tim-
>
>I used the corrugated 5/8" tubes Van's sells. They are directed at the
center
>part of the magneto main body (not the distributor portion). This is where
>most of the heat resides.
>
>-GV
GV,
How did you secure the magneto end of the blast tubes? Mine are hanging
off the back of my baffle like some Clintonesque extension at the moment
waiting for inspiration on how to locate them.
Cheers,
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel Extension |
>Ross, I added a two inch extenstion across the entire bottom of the
>panel to hold amongst other things. 16 electric switch/Circuit
>breakers, my two fuelquantity indicators and the air nozzels on the
>ends.
>I am 5'9' of average proportions and find no problem with leg
>clearances, however someone taller than say 6'3 might have to be
>careful when setting into the seat so that their knees do smack into the
>lower panel. I have offset my lower panel about 3/4" or so back from
>the plane of the main panel which helps with knee clearance and looks
>better.
Ross,
I would make a mock-up of any planned extension before going too far with
it. I am 6' 5" and need every bit of room under my panel. I did make a
sub-panel for my engine controls which is only 6" wide. As Jim Cone points
out this makes panel removal much easier. If you use the Nuckolls
suggestion and put the fuse boards on the side of the plane this frees up a
lot of panel space.
Cheers,
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Re: business use of an RV |
>
>My 0.02 worth is that I understand that certification justification for
>a "Homebuilt" is for Educational purposes. That would and other rules
>indicate that a "Homebuilt" may not be used in any endevor that involves
>"compensation." Now whether "Compensation" covers leasing it back to the
>builder for business purposes - only the lawyers might know.
>
>Ed
My thinking is that you most definately can use it in your business and
pass the associated cost along. These could include depreciation,
insurance, and any direct expenses. I am hoping to use it just as I would a
regular spam can. That'll at least offset some of the expenses.
Shelby in Nashville.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
In a message dated 9/30/98 11:28:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com writes:
<< You should drill new holes in the axle nut, not in the axle it self. >>
Von
Scott may have misread your problem. If the holes in the axle are too far
outboard, maybe a washer or two might help. As far as the holes in the axle
nut, is this nut a castle nut??or just a nut with holes drilled in it? I
would certainly want the holes to line up when the proper amount of torque is
added to the nuts.
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | SkyForce SkyMap II? |
If you own a SkyForce SkyMap II moving map GPS, please email me off
list. I have one and would like to talk about the Flight Manager
software package, and discussing it's features, cost, etc.
Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME
San Jose, CA Engine & prop mounted...
President/Newsletter Editor Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Neighbor Complaints |
Doesn't sound like this particular neighbor is worth worrying about. Some
people are just like that. -J
>
> ---Todd Lattimer wrote:
> >
> > You could offer to take him flying and show him what all the fuss is
> about.
> > You never know, you might end up helping him buck rivets of his own ;)
> I considered that. I don't know for sure because the guy doesn't talk
> to anybody. I get the impression that he is suffering from some sort
> of macho plane-envy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy Bubble Dings |
Gang,
My RV4 was assaulted by some one else's angry propeller. Among other
problems, there are several little dings in the side of the canopy
resulting from high velocity impact of aluminum shrapnel fragments
savagely ripped from my wing by the offending prop. These dings
resemble rock chips on your car windshield. There are no cracks, but
just smallish but rough craters (pock marks) where the impacts occurred.
1) Can such plastic canopy bubble dings be repaired?
2) Does anybody know if automotive windshield chip repair technology
(injectable acrylic??) would be applicable to this kind of situation.
Thanks for your thoughts and advice.
Frank Zeck, The Bummed Out Old Pilot :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | routing wires thru ribs |
The plans say to enlarge the tooling hole in one of the VS ribs to
allow pulling thru wiring for lighting. Should the hole have grommet or
something placed in it to keep the wires from rubbing against the edge of
the sheet metal? I don't think this sort of thing merits a piece of
conduit or anything that elaborate. If so, what sort of grommet and where
do I get them?
Thanks,
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: business use of an RV |
It's my understanding if you meet the rules regarding a Private Pilot's
Certificate (vs Commercial), your business should be able to reimburse you
for "reasonable expenses". This means you can have passengers . . . but
again, they are only reimbursing "reasonable expenses". Nothing can be done
"for hire" along the lines of what a certified aircraft/commercial pilot can
do.
-----Original Message-----
From: Cappucci, Louis <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com>
Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 7:12 AM
Subject: RV-List: business use of an RV
>
>...just wondering if an experimental could be owned and operated by a
>business, thereby gaining some tax advantages. i am not talking about a
sham
>company/liability shield, etc. what i mean is if i had my own company could
>i, the individual who built the rv, sell it to my own company, and then use
>it for business travel for myself, etc. would this fall under the
>prohibition of operating for hire? anybody ever try it?
>
>as an alternative, if the individual retained the ownership, but used the
>aircraft for business travel, would the expenses incurred be deductible
>(including pro rata maintenance, hangar fees, etc.), or is this considered
>operating for hire?
>
>Louis Cappucci
>Mamaroneck, NY
>6AQB - unpacking
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: routing wires thru ribs |
I used 5/8 snap in bushings from eagle hardware. Additionally, I ran clear
teflon bought for a criminally low price at Boeing surplus. This will allow
the easy addition of wires at a later date, inaddtion to adding an extra
measure of protection for the wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Bubble Dings |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Frank;
Sounds like an unfortunate accident. I am in the Glass Repair Business,
and can tell you that the glass repair kits cannot repair plastic, only
glass with the inner lamination, such as found in auto windshields. If
the chips are very deep at all, I do not think there is much you can do.
Polishing will perhaps make them look better. How about some details on
what happened, so we can all learn from it?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | floored by shop construction decision |
It's decision time for the floor in my new shop.
Does anyone on the list have a shop with a wood floor? I have an
abundance of 2 X 8 T&G heart pine decking (already bought & paid for at
salvage prices) which I can use for flooring. My expenses would be
limited to a few hundred dollars for structure under the floor, with
under-floor insulation. Or I can pour a slab for around $2000-$2500. My
concern with wood is related to its permanence when exposed to water on
occasion, and what will happen when metal shavings, etc. are walked on
while building. Note that strength will not be an issue with the wood
floor because of the construction technique I can use to install it.
Water is because the shop will be wide enough (30') to have a bi-fold
door & be used to hangar an RV or similar sized plane. The wood is
appealing for monetary, esthetic, & oh-my-aching-feet-reasons.
Experienced minds responding would be appreciated.
Charlie
flying -4, building shop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Bubble Dings |
depending on the depth of the damage, it is
possible to remove the damage. One of the
micromesh kits should work. Some distortion
might occur but if on the side it should be no broblem
Sorry to hear about your incident!!!!
RV4 273sb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: routing wires thru ribs |
Tom, I drilled 2 - 5/8" holes in VS404, 407 & 806. Then installed rubber
grommets in the holes and ran a string thru them bottom to top to pull the
wire in if I decide to put something at the top. The grommets are at Home
Depot or Avery or Van's. You will need to make the top FRP piece on the VS
removable for access. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB due in
Nov., Chandler, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: tom sargent <sarg314(at)azstarnet.com>
Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 6:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: routing wires thru ribs
>
> The plans say to enlarge the tooling hole in one of the VS ribs to
>allow pulling thru wiring for lighting. Should the hole have grommet or
>something placed in it to keep the wires from rubbing against the edge of
>the sheet metal? I don't think this sort of thing merits a piece of
>conduit or anything that elaborate. If so, what sort of grommet and where
>do I get them?
>
>Thanks,
>
>---
>Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Bending aileron skins |
At the RV forum in Mpls this past May, there was a guy (Paul McReynolds?)
who demonstrated a method for bending aileron, rudder, and elevator skins.
He used a bunch of clamps and some boards and squeezed with the clamps
until the gap between the trailing edges of the top and bottom boards were
a certain distance apart.
I wouldn't suppose anyone knows what the recommended distance is using
this method? I just started this for my ailerons, and it looks like it's
going to work *much* better than the method Van recommends, but I don't
remember the distance that was recommended.
Thanks.
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Blast tube cooling: Alternator, Mag |
<< How did you secure the magneto end of the blast tubes?>>
I just heat formed them and tie wrapped to the engine mount tube in that area
with a little electrical tape to maintain position.
<< Mine are hanging off the back of my baffle like some Clintonesque extension
at the moment waiting for inspiration on how to locate them. >>
Hey, hey. I don't make fun of your President now, do I? As I understand from
the blow by blow (pun intended) account, hanging was not his problem.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anthony K. Self" <chevy_truck(at)email.msn.com> |
>>I noticed a while back that N58RV on the cover of KITPLANES was a tail
>>dragger. The background photo on my desktop is of N58RV and I've been
>>using
>>it for several months. This photo, though, of N58RV is in tri-gear
>>form.
>
>Look closer at the N #.
>The tri-gear RV-8A is... N58VA.
Thanks guys, now I feel stupid. It was the identical paint jobs that threw
me off I guess. It did seem hard to believe that Van had changed it over, I
should have figured that one out myself.
Anthony K. Self
CHEVY_TRUCK(at)MSN.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Bubble Dings |
In a message dated 10/1/98 8:02:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RVer273sb(at)aol.com
writes:
<< depending on the depth of the damage, it is
possible to remove the damage. >>
This statement is correct. My eye surgeon removed a trauma induced cataract
and installed a rigid lense replacement. He flies an RV3. He said the
material in my eye was the same as is used on the canopies. This is a
precision ground lense. I am sure there is someone who can grind and polish
out this damage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Breather Line |
A question was asked about problems / hazards of dumping the engine
vent line onto the exhaust pipe. I did mine that way and it has
worked great for 250 hours over the last 12 months. I have no plans
of changing it. Van is more knowledgeable than I. According to the
RV-6/6A Construction Manual (6/2/97 6S11.DOC version) Section 11.
Engine and propeller Installation page 11-4 title ENGINE BREATHER
LINE, he recommends "positioning the breather line outlet so that the
contents are blown directly onto the exhaust pipes and burned." I do
have a FAA A & P license and am an EAA Tech Counselor. I cannot find
anything about not doing this. When I cannot find regulations against
it, I tend to follow technical advice from the best (most qualified)
source. I see nothing wrong with doing your engine breather line this
way or one of several other acceptable methods.
Van designed the RV-6/6A for 150 - 180 Lycoming engines. He knows
better than I do. I do not recommend using any other engines.
"There is no right way to do the wrong thing."
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 fuse jig question |
Greetings,
When I built and positioned my fuselage jig, I didn't know that the
partially assembled fuselage would need to be removed from the jig after
skinning for some interior work, THEN placed BACK on the jig for the
gear mounting duties. My dilemma is that I don't have any place to put
the fuselage on the floor (roof support posts in the way) without taking
the jig apart..or re-engineering the roof structure of the shop
(yikes!). Is it possible to just place the inverted fuselage on some
beefy sawhorses for the forward floor/gear assembly, or is the jig an
absolute necessity? I understand the need for a level and rigid support,
but that jig is going to be a real pain to get around when I'm done with
the skinning chores.
Geeze, you just can't get enough space with these things!
Thanks folks,
Brian "avoiding shop remodeling" Denk
RV8 #379
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 quickbuild question |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>I have an RV-8 Quickbuild. I have not yet started on my wings, but I
>was
>wondering, how do I get a flop tube into the tanks? Is there a kit or
>something?
>--
Moe,
There is no kit.
The fuel tank drawing shows what work is required.
You need to get the flop tube, make/buy a side cover plate without the
opening for the fuel level sender and fuel pick-up. and add a doubler
with platenuts to the rear baffle of the second rib bay in the tank to
relocate the fuel sender away from the flop tube.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 landing gear width |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>How far can I reasonably take the fuselage and finishing kit before
>putting
>the landing gear on (RV-8)? I assume that I need the LG on to do the
>engine installation.
>
>
The main gear legs have to be fitted with the fuse. upside down.
This could be done at anytime before installing the fwd top skin,
windshield, etc.
When N58RV was built we fitted the wings, rigged all the control system,
did all of the interior work, wiring, panel, etc, and all the fiberglass
work for the windshield/canopy, with the fuse sitting on about a 24" tall
saw horse under the center section.
We did some of the engine installation with it this way also, but finally
lifted it up and put the gear on when fitting the cowling.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
at 100 hrs.
Now with over 700 hrs. in RV's I am constantly still learning new things.
Just consider it all a learning experience. I hope that is why everyone
participates in this list. To either learn, or pass along to others what
we have learned.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Scott and Others; If I cover the existing holes in the axle with the
>axle nut in its proper position, how do I know where to drill the hole
>in the axle nut? The hole in the axle itself is covered then. It looks
>like my axle nut needs to back off of the wheel by about 1/4" in order
>to use the existing holes on
>both pieces. Should I just use thick washers instead? Is anyone else
>having problems with the holes drilled in the wrong place?
>
>Von Alexander
>
Von,
I'll try and clear this up but first will try and ad to every ones RV
knowledge by saying that the RV-8 has different landing gear (hence,
different axles) than all the other RV's have. This is the reason that
the standard supplied axle nuts don't match up to the holes in the RV-8
axle.
You can't use spacers as others have suggested or your wheel pant
brackets wont work. They are designed for a specific spacing from the
inside face of the gear leg to the outside of the axle.
The easiest way to reposition the holes is as follows.
- Put the wheels (with spacers) on the axle.
- Push everything tight so that all clearance is removed from the
bearings (as would happen if the nut were tightened).
- Carefully measure the distance from the outer spacer to the cotter pin
hole.
- Set the axle nut on a flat surface and measure up from the flat
surface (which is simulating the surface of the spacer) up to the point
where the hole needs to be and mark the location.
- Remeasure your marks and chose the 3 that are closest to the correct
position.
- Center punch these 3 marks and use them to drill holes on a drill
press (check to make sure that the bed of the drill press is square to
the drill bit).
- Drill each hole all the way through and out the other side.
Your new holes may be as close as 1/8 " to the old holes but this is not
a problem.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: routing wires thru ribs |
Actually, a lot of guys *are* installing a piece of conduit. What's
being used by some of us is a length of PVC pipe.
But yes, you *definitely* want something that will prevent the wires
from chaffing. Can you say "electical short" ? I knew you could.
-Joe
>
> The plans say to enlarge the tooling hole in one of the VS ribs to
> allow pulling thru wiring for lighting. Should the hole have grommet or
> something placed in it to keep the wires from rubbing against the edge of
> the sheet metal? I don't think this sort of thing merits a piece of
> conduit or anything that elaborate. If so, what sort of grommet and where
> do I get them?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BobTrumpRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: floored by shop construction decision |
<< Does anyone on the list have a shop with a wood floor? >>
Charlie,
I built my shop with a wood floor over a crawl space. The floor surface is
3/4" T&G plywood, sealed at the joints, and finished with several coats of gym
floor finish. This finish is very hard and water resistant. The shop is warm
and foot fatigue is minimal. Also, it is easy to screw machines, benches, and
jigs to the floor. Just be sure to design for the load and for minimum
vibration. The crawl space should be vented to avoid moisture build up
without letting in too much cold air in winter. I did not insulate the floor
in order to take advantage of earth coupling which, along with south wall
(only) windows and well insulated walls, doors, and ceiling, keeps the shop
from freezing even without supplemental heat here in western Colorado. When
heat is used, the wood floor allows the shop to warm quickly since there is
minimal thermal mass to bring up to temperature.
Good luck with your project.
Bob Trumpfheller
BobTrumpRV(at)aol.com
http://members.aol.com/mesawood
Mesawood Airpark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Just a word of caution about amateur dogfighting....I recently was
>doing
>the same in a T34. I was on the other T34 and feeling very aggressive
>about putting him away. I followed him over the top of a loop when I
>felt
>the plane shutter. I ignored that and continued to pull thinking just
>a
>little more and I would have him. The stick went soft, the plane
>entered
>an accellerated stall from an inverted possition. The next thing I
>saw was
>my shaddow coming down on the top of a cloud. Have you ever entered a
>cloud, inverted, and out of control? Not a lot of fun.
>
>Anyway, start with plenty of alt, and dont let your fighter jock
>aggressiveness take over and ruin your day. By the way, an aggressive
>verticle first turn will get em everytime.
>
Some very good points... I will add one more.
If you are on a "boggies" tail, and he is just a bit inside of your turn
radius and pulling, it is hard to resist pulling just a little more to
bring him down in your sight line and nail him.
The problem is if the boggie is already pulling near max. (to keep you
off his tail) the only way you could turn inside of him to line up on him
is to pull more than max. G's.
Add to this the fact that you just topped off the tanks this morning,
and you have your buddy with you because you are on your way back from
Saturday morning breakfast It is likely that you are well over aerobatic
gross. We often only think about gross weight and max. G's when we are
going out to do aerobatics, but this type of RV fun flying should be
thought of as if you are out doing aerobatics.
Please be careful, (but it is a lot of fun; I'm a 3 time RV ace myself )
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crankcase vent line |
I would imagine there is some reason for concern any time you drip something
potentially flammable on something very hot. However, unless there is a
significant amount coming out of your breather tube I don't think this is an
issue. Mine usually has just a barely visible oil stain on the pipe. I
brought an aluminum tube to the pipe, so I could put the tube output about
3/8" from the pipe without worry about it melting/catching fire. Being this
close to that much heat makes me pretty certain it will not ice over. I do
have a whistle slot in it for insurance however.
Personally, I think the danger of icing over the breather tube is more
likely/dangerous than dripping a few drops of oil on the exhaust pipe.
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)mci2000.com
http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>I have also heard of people having trouble from inspectors about
>dripping it on your exhaust. Can someone elaborate on why this is
>a concern? Or why it any percieved concern is bogus?
>
>It's nice to hear that people are doing it and don't have problems,
>but if there is a chance of fire or something as a result of doing
>this I'd like to know about it.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
>Portland, OR
>http://ww.edt.com/homewing
>randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary Rush" <gerush(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Duckworks landing Light |
I purchased the duck works like kit and installed in the outboard bay my
making a replacement for the small end of the bracket. It took about 1/2 to
do and worked perfectly. If you want more info you can email me directly.
Thanks,
Gary
80352
Fuel tanks nearly complete, fuselage coming this month
-----Original Message-----
From: aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com>
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 7:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: Duckworks landing Light
>
>
>Has anyone purchased a Duckworks light for installation in an RV-8?
>
>I bought one from Vans only to find that the mounting bracket is too short
>to fit in the outboard bay of the -8. The Installation
>instructions mention this and state that there are instructions in a later
>section on how to remedy this, but there are no such instructions.
>
> jwentz at Duckworks has not responded to email.
>
>Looks to me like fabricating a mounting bracket from scratch would solve
the
>problem, but would appreciate any suggestions from anyone who has already
>faced and fixed it.
>
>George Kilishek
>#80006
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: floored by shop construction decision |
Wood makes a great floor. Many of the industrial buildings build in the twenties
and
thirties have wooden floors. Many of those are still in service. Water is not a
problem as long as it is not left for long periods of time. You need to add a vapor
barrier such a 6 mil poly to the entire area before you add any structure and the
stringers to support the wood floor need to be pressure treated lumber. You may
or
may not need to add concrete pads to support the stringers depending upon your
soil
conditions. Email me off list with your soil conditions and location and I will
give
you some more information.
Joe Walker
Wiring wings
Houston, Texas
Charlie and Tupper England wrote:
>
> It's decision time for the floor in my new shop.
>
> Does anyone on the list have a shop with a wood floor? I have an
> abundance of 2 X 8 T&G heart pine decking (already bought & paid for at
> salvage prices) which I can use for flooring. My expenses would be
> limited to a few hundred dollars for structure under the floor, with
> under-floor insulation. Or I can pour a slab for around $2000-$2500. My
> concern with wood is related to its permanence when exposed to water on
> occasion, and what will happen when metal shavings, etc. are walked on
> while building. Note that strength will not be an issue with the wood
> floor because of the construction technique I can use to install it.
> Water is because the shop will be wide enough (30') to have a bi-fold
> door & be used to hangar an RV or similar sized plane. The wood is
> appealing for monetary, esthetic, & oh-my-aching-feet-reasons.
>
> Experienced minds responding would be appreciated.
>
> Charlie
> flying -4, building shop
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
I am laying out my new panel now. The one instrument I did not consider (until
now) adding is a G-meter. Are all you guys shooting each other down, i.e., having
the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your body to tell
you if the load limit of the structure is being reached?
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
> it is hard to resist pulling just a little more to
> bring him down in your sight line and nail him.
> The problem is if the boggie is already pulling near max. (to keep you
> off his tail) the only way you could turn inside of him to line up on him
> is to pull more than max. G's.
> We often only think about gross weight and max. G's when we are
> going out to do aerobatics, but this type of RV fun flying should be
> thought of as if you are out doing aerobatics.
>
> Please be careful, (but it is a lot of fun; I'm a 3 time RV ace myself )
>
> Scott McDaniels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nashville Fly-In(Forecast) |
Just a quick question.
I have a cousin that is responsible for all my interest in flying.
He would take me on endless trips out of Midway Airport in Chicago
before I ever became a pilot. He now lives in Lebanon TN. Just recently
I have found that He is interested in an RV. I would like to give him
the information on the Fly-in. Can someone pass that to me so I could
pass it on?
Bill Jaugilas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: routing wires thru ribs |
When I was researching this I found some grommets in Aircraft Spruce.
I ended up NOT making future wiring provisions tho - because, of all
the pictures I have of RVs, I couln't find a one with lights on the
VS. Hope I don't regret it later.
---tom sargent wrote:
>
>
> The plans say to enlarge the tooling hole in one of the VS
ribs to
> allow pulling thru wiring for lighting. Should the hole have
grommet or
> something placed in it to keep the wires from rubbing against the
edge of
> the sheet metal? I don't think this sort of thing merits a piece of
> conduit or anything that elaborate. If so, what sort of grommet and
where
> do I get them?
>
> Thanks,
>
> ---
> Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
==
Larry Bowen
larry(at)bowen.com
http://larry.bowen.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
Scott,
One other check that may be used is one of those relatively cheap laser
pointers.
If you set the pointer up in such a way that it points directly through the
hole then screw the nut on and adjust for proper tension, you get the ideal
hole position marked on the nut by laser. Just center punch there and then
put extra holes 1/8" either side of the ideal for adjustments. If you need
some ideas on how to set up the laser pointer contact me off list.
Al
>
>
>>Scott and Others; If I cover the existing holes in the axle with the
>>axle nut in its proper position, how do I know where to drill the hole
>>in the axle nut? The hole in the axle itself is covered then.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bending aileron skins |
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org>
Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 10:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bending aileron skins
>
>At the RV forum in Mpls this past May, there was a guy (Paul McReynolds?)
>who demonstrated a method for bending aileron, rudder, and elevator skins.
>He used a bunch of clamps and some boards and squeezed with the clamps
>until the gap between the trailing edges of the top and bottom boards were
>a certain distance apart.
>
>I wouldn't suppose anyone knows what the recommended distance is using
>this method? I just started this for my ailerons, and it looks like it's
>going to work *much* better than the method Van recommends, but I don't
>remember the distance that was recommended.
>
>Thanks.
>
>-Joe
The distance recommended was 3/16". It worked fine for me.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wheel Nut Installation- another 2 cents worth |
<< I'll try and clear this up but first will try and ad to every ones RV
knowledge by saying that the RV-8 has different landing gear (hence,
different axles) than all the other RV's have. This is the reason that
the standard supplied axle nuts don't match up to the holes in the RV-8
axle. >>
Scott:
If the parts don't work as produced, why not change the specification on one
or the other part? I would think that leaving the hole out of the axle
shouldn't add too much to the price. Two different retainer nuts might lead to
some inventory confusion..
As no factory recommendations ever came with any of the Rockets (using the
same axle/wheel/spacers/nut as the -8), we came up with the following:
Install a wheel (without tire) with the correct spacers on the axle.
Tighten the nut to correct torque
drill thru the nut and axle with a long #30 bit, putting a new hole in the
axle
We would also rotate the nut 1/2 flat, or 30 deg, and drill another hole about
60 deg from the first hole. This allows some adjustment for wear.
A hole slightly larger than #30 allows for an easier 1/8" cotter pin
insertion- maybe #28.
Using the extra hole in the nut method seemed to allow a bit more room for
Murphy to help. Of course, the wheel retainer nut manufacturing lobby likes
that...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: floored by shop construction decision |
I helped a friend put in a T&G 2x8 TREATED floor. It went with the treated
foundation we put under an existing house. The floor however was below
grade and the back wall was against a hill. We put down heavy plastic
under the floor and used treated joists as well. I think you would like it
if you put your flooring over treated joists. He did a lot of metal work
including welding. He had on problems. I would use some of the new water
based urethane varnishes. Should last forever.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 10:21 PM
Subject: RV-List: floored by shop construction decision
>
>It's decision time for the floor in my new shop.
>
>Does anyone on the list have a shop with a wood floor? I have an
>abundance of 2 X 8 T&G heart pine decking (already bought & paid for at
>salvage prices) which I can use for flooring. My expenses would be
>limited to a few hundred dollars for structure under the floor, with
>under-floor insulation. Or I can pour a slab for around $2000-$2500. My
>concern with wood is related to its permanence when exposed to water on
>occasion, and what will happen when metal shavings, etc. are walked on
>while building. Note that strength will not be an issue with the wood
>floor because of the construction technique I can use to install it.
>Water is because the shop will be wide enough (30') to have a bi-fold
>door & be used to hangar an RV or similar sized plane. The wood is
>appealing for monetary, esthetic, & oh-my-aching-feet-reasons.
>
>Experienced minds responding would be appreciated.
>
>Charlie
>flying -4, building shop
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Throttle Cable Length |
Dear Listers:
I bought 42.5" friction lock throttle cable from Van's and installed in
sliding canopy -6, one end attached to Van's throttle/mixture cable bracket
for 0-360-A1A and other end attached to center console about 2" below
standard instrument panel.
Was barely able to get engine end attached to bracket and the entire
cable is taut, ie., no bends. Hole through firewall is per specs and
instrument panel distance aft of firewall is per plans.
Having the throttle mounted just below standard panel would appear to
add barely 1/4" to overall length requirements.
Is the 42.5" throttle cable length this unforgiving?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Wheel Pants Speed Gain/loss |
Removed wheel pants from my -6 with O-360 and C/S prop as I operate
frequently from grass strips and wanted to prevent crud build-up in pants.
Also wanted to be able to visually inspect brakes/lines, etc. as part of
pre-flight.
In flight, noted speed loss of approximately 3 knots IAS. Did not have
large axle mounting nut or inboard mounting plate removed or hub caps on
wheel.
IAS @ 1,500' MSL with 25" and 2500 RPM was 158 KTS with pants on and 155
KTS with pants off. OAT approximately 85 degrees F.
two-piece aluminum fairings (per plans) appeared. Visually, large wheel
pants make landing gear "appear" small.
Plan to remove inboard mounting plate and large axle nut and install hub
caps and re-test in flight.
Has anyone gone through this procedure? Any tips on cleaning up
un-panted wheels and LG leg fairing/wheel junction?
Bill Knight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Bubble Dings |
In a message dated 10/2/98 12:11:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
JNice51355(at)aol.com writes:
<< depending on the depth of the damage, it is possible to remove the damage.
>>
Yes, but the optics will be awful due to the different thickness of the
material.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
In a message dated 10/2/98 5:59:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, joewalk@hal-
pc.org writes:
A G meter is about the best $300 dial you can by. These aircraft are so
maneuverable and fast that a G meter in plain view is VERY necessary.
Gary Corde
RV6 N211GC - NJ
<< I am laying out my new panel now. The one instrument I did not consider
(until
now) adding is a G-meter. Are all you guys shooting each other down, i.e.,
having
the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your body to
tell
you if the load limit of the structure is being reached? >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Joe Walker wrote:
>
> I am laying out my new panel now. The one instrument I did not consider (until
> now) adding is a G-meter. Are all you guys shooting each other down, i.e., having
> the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your body to
tell
> you if the load limit of the structure is being reached?
>
There are many and varied opinions on this. My opinion is you should have a g
meter.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
IF I understand the problem... The holes in the nut don't line up with the
hole through the axle.
Before your drill any more holes, Have you torqued the nut to the proper
setting? Timken claims that one can quickly ruin a taper roller bearing by
not having the proper preload.
The addition of a washer between the nut and the bearing many times will
change the position of the nut enough to make the holes line up. You can
make one from shim stock of aluminum sheet.
-----Original Message-----
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel Nut Installation
>
>Scott,
>One other check that may be used is one of those relatively cheap laser
>pointers.
>If you set the pointer up in such a way that it points directly through the
>hole then screw the nut on and adjust for proper tension, you get the ideal
>hole position marked on the nut by laser. Just center punch there and then
>put extra holes 1/8" either side of the ideal for adjustments. If you need
>some ideas on how to set up the laser pointer contact me off list.
> Al
>
>>
>>
>>>Scott and Others; If I cover the existing holes in the axle with the
>>>axle nut in its proper position, how do I know where to drill the hole
>>>in the axle nut? The hole in the axle itself is covered then.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
News-Software: UReply 3.1
In a previous message, it was written:
>
>I am laying out my new panel now. The one instrument I did not consider (until
>now) adding is a G-meter. Are all you guys shooting each other down, i.e., having
>the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your body to
tell
>you if the load limit of the structure is being reached?
>
>SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
>>
>> it is hard to resist pulling just a little more to
>> bring him down in your sight line and nail him.
>> The problem is if the boggie is already pulling near max. (to keep you
>> off his tail) the only way you could turn inside of him to line up on him
>> is to pull more than max. G's.
Fly smarter, not harder!
Read John Shaw's excellent book Air Combat.
The RVs have sufficient vertical performance to make a high (or low)
yo-yo (depending on airspeed) the perfect answer to Scott's situation
(above).
But be careful out there! More than one mid-air has occurred playing
this way!
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
RV-6 Emp, closing left elevator, wings on the waaayyy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Burch <rv6man(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
> The problem is if the boggie is already pulling near max. (to keep you
> off his tail) the only way you could turn inside of him to line up on him
> is to pull more than max. G's.
Scott, This is not completely true. Only above maneuvering speed can you
pull more than the rated max G limit. Below that speed it is who has the
highest Max Lift coeficient that can turn tighter. If the the lead can
only pull 4.5g's at 110mph before stalling and the aggressor can pull
5g's at 110, then who is turning tighter.My experience is that the
majority of the dog fight is spent below Maneuvering speed.Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Thomasville Georgia 31st annual flyiin |
The Thomasville Georgia 31st annual flyin will be held Oct 9 10 11,
with Saturday the 10th being the "Big day". Last year almost 500
aircraft showed up on a beautiful saturday, with untold amounts of
people. There were approx 8-10 RV's last year, and should be atleast
that many this year, and I'm told one RV-8 will be there this year.
Weather permitting this will be a great flyin.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: floored by shop construction decision |
corrected copy
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: floored by shop construction decision
>
>I helped a friend put in a T&G 2x8 TREATED floor. It went with the treated
>foundation we put under an existing house. The floor however was below
>grade and the back wall was against a hill. We put down heavy plastic
>under the floor and used treated joists as well. I think you would like it
>if you put your flooring over treated joists with the [lastic sheeting. He
did a lot of metal work
>including welding. He had no problems. I would use some of the new water
>based urethane varnishes. Should last forever.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 10:21 PM
>Subject: RV-List: floored by shop construction decision
>
>
>
>>
>>It's decision time for the floor in my new shop.
>>
>>Does anyone on the list have a shop with a wood floor? I have an
>>abundance of 2 X 8 T&G heart pine decking (already bought & paid for at
>>salvage prices) which I can use for flooring. My expenses would be
>>limited to a few hundred dollars for structure under the floor, with
>>under-floor insulation. Or I can pour a slab for around $2000-$2500. My
>>concern with wood is related to its permanence when exposed to water on
>>occasion, and what will happen when metal shavings, etc. are walked on
>>while building. Note that strength will not be an issue with the wood
>>floor because of the construction technique I can use to install it.
>>Water is because the shop will be wide enough (30') to have a bi-fold
>>door & be used to hangar an RV or similar sized plane. The wood is
>>appealing for monetary, esthetic, & oh-my-aching-feet-reasons.
>>
>>Experienced minds responding would be appreciated.
>>
>>Charlie
>>flying -4, building shop
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Pants Speed Gain/loss |
News-Software: UReply 3.1
In a previous message, it was written:
>
> Has anyone gone through this procedure? Any tips on cleaning up
>un-panted wheels and LG leg fairing/wheel junction?
Forgive my ignorance - I'm a long ways from dealing with this...
Aren't the pants split along their length? Any way to mount just the
inner half to provide a junction/half-fairing combined with an open
side to clean out mud/gunk? Kind of like a tire fender.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 Emp, closing left elevator, wings on the waaayyy!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
I have found over the year and a half of flying my 6 that the g-load
sensation has become less and less. I remember doing 60 degree steep
turns as a student pilot and feeling really uncomfortable at 2g's. I now
have to keep a much closer eye on the g-meter when playing around.
> having
> the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your body to
> tell
> you if the load limit of the structure is being reached? >>
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://www.netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/tailwheel/>
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chat Daniel" <cdaniel(at)fnbbaldwin.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Scott...
In the circumstance you discribed, the boggie is inside your turn, and you
are at or close to max turn.....its time for the old hi yo yo. Roll away
from the turn..pull up...roll back so that your lift vector is pointed at
the boggie.. and pull...roll back to match his wings...and shoot.
Chat Daniel
RV8 678RV(reserved)
----------
> From: SCOTT R MCDANIELS <smcdaniels(at)Juno.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: VG's on RV's
> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 11:59 PM
>
>
>
> >Just a word of caution about amateur dogfighting....I recently was
> >doing
> >the same in a T34. I was on the other T34 and feeling very aggressive
> >about putting him away. I followed him over the top of a loop when I
> >felt
> >the plane shutter. I ignored that and continued to pull thinking just
> >a
> >little more and I would have him. The stick went soft, the plane
> >entered
> >an accellerated stall from an inverted possition. The next thing I
> >saw was
> >my shaddow coming down on the top of a cloud. Have you ever entered a
> >cloud, inverted, and out of control? Not a lot of fun.
> >
> >Anyway, start with plenty of alt, and dont let your fighter jock
> >aggressiveness take over and ruin your day. By the way, an aggressive
> >verticle first turn will get em everytime.
> >
> Some very good points... I will add one more.
>
> If you are on a "boggies" tail, and he is just a bit inside of your turn
> radius and pulling, it is hard to resist pulling just a little more to
> bring him down in your sight line and nail him.
> The problem is if the boggie is already pulling near max. (to keep you
> off his tail) the only way you could turn inside of him to line up on him
> is to pull more than max. G's.
> Add to this the fact that you just topped off the tanks this morning,
> and you have your buddy with you because you are on your way back from
> Saturday morning breakfast It is likely that you are well over aerobatic
> gross. We often only think about gross weight and max. G's when we are
> going out to do aerobatics, but this type of RV fun flying should be
> thought of as if you are out doing aerobatics.
>
> Please be careful, (but it is a lot of fun; I'm a 3 time RV ace myself )
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are my own
> and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
> of my employer.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chat Daniel" <cdaniel(at)fnbbaldwin.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Joe...
If you have ever really pulled 6 G's you dont need to ask that question.
Anything past 3-4 G's and you are entering the discomfort zone. The
average non military pilot would probably start to gray-out at about 5-6
G's.
Having said that, I like having a G meter just to know how much you are
stressing the plane and the pilot.
Chat Daniel
RV8 678RV(reserved)
----------
> From: Joe Walker <joewalk@hal-pc.org>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: VG's on RV's
> Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 7:24 AM
>
>
> I am laying out my new panel now. The one instrument I did not consider
(until
> now) adding is a G-meter. Are all you guys shooting each other down,
i.e., having
> the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your
body to tell
> you if the load limit of the structure is being reached?
>
> SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
>
> >
> > it is hard to resist pulling just a little more to
> > bring him down in your sight line and nail him.
> > The problem is if the boggie is already pulling near max. (to keep you
> > off his tail) the only way you could turn inside of him to line up on
him
> > is to pull more than max. G's.
> > We often only think about gross weight and max. G's when we are
> > going out to do aerobatics, but this type of RV fun flying should be
> > thought of as if you are out doing aerobatics.
> >
> > Please be careful, (but it is a lot of fun; I'm a 3 time RV ace myself
)
> >
> > Scott McDaniels
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Re: Nashville Fly-In(Forecast) |
>
>Just a quick question.
>I have a cousin that is responsible for all my interest in flying.
>He would take me on endless trips out of Midway Airport in Chicago
>before I ever became a pilot. He now lives in Lebanon TN. Just recently
>I have found that He is interested in an RV. I would like to give him
>the information on the Fly-in. Can someone pass that to me so I could
>pass it on?
>Bill Jaugilas
Lebanon has just one airport right beside the airport. If he is interested
in RVs that is the place to be this weekend. Also he can call me at
(615)726-3030
Shelby Smith
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nashville Fly-In(Forecast) |
Could someone from the Lebanon, TN crowd email me off list- I think I can trek
to the RV fly-in tomorrow for part of the day and I'd like to know the agenda
for Saturday as well as any special arrival procedures. I'd probably be
arriving 10:30 and departing 2:30. Thanks.
PS- may have empty seat; if anyone wants to hop a ride from Lewisburg/Beckley
WV/ London-Corbin KY let me know.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
Roanoke, VA area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Pants Speed Gain/loss |
Since you lost so little top speed, why worry? Your big problem is clear
the junk off the wing that the wheels throw.
-----Original Message-----
From: William G. Knight <wknight(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 10:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: Wheel Pants Speed Gain/loss
>
> Removed wheel pants from my -6 with O-360 and C/S prop as I operate
>frequently from grass strips and wanted to prevent crud build-up in pants.
>Also wanted to be able to visually inspect brakes/lines, etc. as part of
>pre-flight.
>
> In flight, noted speed loss of approximately 3 knots IAS. Did not have
>large axle mounting nut or inboard mounting plate removed or hub caps on
>wheel.
>
> IAS @ 1,500' MSL with 25" and 2500 RPM was 158 KTS with pants on and
155
>KTS with pants off. OAT approximately 85 degrees F.
>
>two-piece aluminum fairings (per plans) appeared. Visually, large wheel
>pants make landing gear "appear" small.
>
> Plan to remove inboard mounting plate and large axle nut and install
hub
>caps and re-test in flight.
>
> Has anyone gone through this procedure? Any tips on cleaning up
>un-panted wheels and LG leg fairing/wheel junction?
>
> Bill Knight
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
I'm not feeling up to a dogfight yet, but I am very interested in the VG
concept. Especially ater learning they can be affixed to the wing with RTV
and removed by undercutting with dental floss- sounds harmless enough.
Are we ever going to hear the details? Shape, size, number, placement...?
C'mon, guys. Are we not experimenters? Lets find out how much more Total
Performance is out there, waiting to be discovered... clue us in on where to
start sticking our own VG's, please.
-BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ELT Antenna in Tail? |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Scott and Listers;
At the homecoming I could not find the ELT antenna anywhere on the
factory 8-A, so I asked Scott where it was. He said they mounted it in
the tail horizontally under the fairing. I would like to do this on my
RV-8, but if I mount the antenna onto the last bulkhead as Scott says,
the antenna is about 3" too long. Can I safely cut the antenna by 3" to
make it fit without degrading performance too much? Anyone else done
this?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noble, Jack S" <Jack.Noble(at)PSS.Boeing.com> |
Just wanted to remind Terry that if the VG''s decrease his stall speed,
they also reduce his maneuver speed by an equal factor.
Jack Noble
767-400 Wing Structures
Boeing Commercial Airplanes
Phone 425-342-5596
FAX 425-342-7251
email: jack.s.noble(at)boeing.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: floored by shop construction decision |
The original Boeing factory, now restored and fun visit at BFI, had wood floors.
I'd happily trade my concrete garage floor for wood. I know a lot more about
wood than I do about aluminum for example.
Wood dings and scratches but less so with Yellow Pine with which you may have to
predrill for nails. This is just building character. Wood also burns so it
might not be best for welding.? If unprotected it will soak up oils etc. Water
for brief periods (hours) might cause some warping but it will probably shrink
right back when dry.
I might be inclined to finish the wood with nothing at all. Cheap and it will
last you your lifetime. An oil finish finish would be my next choice. I would
not under any circumstances lay some crap like paint or varnish on it as they
will soon look terrible. These can also trap moisture that gets in through
damaged spots and cause wood to deteriorate more rapidly than if left
unfinished.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Fitting canopy rear skirts
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
I had one day of aerobatic lessons but there was no G-meter in my seat. I guessed
that we pulled about 4 or 5 gees. I'm in the CAF so I get an occasional ride in
a
war bird and we play a little but I don't think we exceeded 4 gees there. I agree,
4 gees seems a lot to me which is why I was wondering if Scott and the other guys
who are playing air combat are holding turns at 6 gees and using a meter to keep
from breaking the planes. I thought you passed out at 6 gees without a gee suit
if
you did it long enough to drain the blood from your brain. I know, you Air Force
guys can do nine gees all day. Maybe I will just go ahead and add a g-meter so
I
will know (right before I black out) what a wimp I am.
Joe Walker
Impressed
Houston, Texas
Chat Daniel wrote:
>
> Joe...
>
> If you have ever really pulled 6 G's you dont need to ask that question.
> Anything past 3-4 G's and you are entering the discomfort zone. The
> average non military pilot would probably start to gray-out at about 5-6
> G's.
>
> Having said that, I like having a G meter just to know how much you are
> stressing the plane and the pilot.
>
> Chat Daniel
> RV8 678RV(reserved)
>
> ----------
> > From: Joe Walker <joewalk@hal-pc.org>
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: VG's on RV's
> > Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 7:24 AM
> >
> >
> > I am laying out my new panel now. The one instrument I did not consider
> (until
> > now) adding is a G-meter. Are all you guys shooting each other down,
> i.e., having
> > the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your
> body to tell
> > you if the load limit of the structure is being reached?
> >
> > SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > it is hard to resist pulling just a little more to
> > > bring him down in your sight line and nail him.
> > > The problem is if the boggie is already pulling near max. (to keep you
> > > off his tail) the only way you could turn inside of him to line up on
> him
> > > is to pull more than max. G's.
> > > We often only think about gross weight and max. G's when we are
> > > going out to do aerobatics, but this type of RV fun flying should be
> > > thought of as if you are out doing aerobatics.
> > >
> > > Please be careful, (but it is a lot of fun; I'm a 3 time RV ace myself
> )
> > >
> > > Scott McDaniels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Bubble Dings |
Hi,
I have one eye with an acrylic lens too. The surgeon told me the history of it.
During combat (WWII I believe) a pilot was hit and got a piece of acrylic in
his eye. The doc observed that the body did not reject it so he hit on the idea
of making lenses of the stuff.
> This statement is correct. My eye surgeon removed a trauma induced cataract
> and installed a rigid lense replacement. He flies an RV3. He said the
> material in my eye was the same as is used on the canopies. This is a
> precision ground lense. I am sure there is someone who can grind and polish
> out this damage.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Bubble Dings |
Hi,
I have refitted my canopy with the frame altered to fit the airplane. Now I
have three drilled holes at the front bow that are slightly visible to the
passenger. I will fill them, of course, but it would be nice if they were as
invisible as possible. Any suggestions appreciated.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
Dear Listers,
the only time my wife ever flew with me from miami to tampa and back,( a
really bad day for flying ) she got very air sick, now she demands she will
never fly again, can a person get acclimated to motion sickness? what can i
do do make her more accustom to this? there must be some sort of exercises
she can do? these acro guys must know something. any sean tuckers or patty
waggstaffs out their willing to comment?
scott
winging it in tampa
wings looking like wings
opening up a can of proseal today ( ohh boy )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna in Tail? |
The latest FAA requirement re ELT's not only concerns the operation on
121.5mHz and 243.0mHz but also requires an externally mounted antenna.
FWIW.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Riveting L Elev Aft Spar & Elev Trim Hinge |
1. Riveting Aft Spar - I could use my narrow Avery yoke for about the
first 5 holes in wider part, then switched to home-made thin set and got
about 5 more. Then improvised with a square body center punch lying on
a tongue depressor shim taped to spar web - and held Avery "hammer"
bucking bar against center punch while using swivel flush set.
Would a "no-hole" yoke have been suitable for this job? Other tips?
2. Riveting hinge halves to trim tab and to rear spar/skin of left
elevator - Used squeezer for a few rivets, and managed to bend several
of the hinge "loops" out of line until I learned to put a thick washer
(1/16) under home-made flush set to keep yoke from pushing on the hinge
"loops" during the last part of squeezing the rivet.
I used the vise grip "hand seamer" to gently re-align each hinge loop
enough to get the hinge pin to go in. Each hinge half came out being a
little "wavey" but was able to get pin back in and tab moves freely so
I'm pressing on.
Just wondering how others did it - with better tools? With more
intelligence or shop savey? Any tips?
David Carter, RV-6 left elevator, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Carter <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Left Elev Rear Spar Mis-shaped (RV-6) |
After installing rear spar in left elevator, laid my 18 inch ruler on
elevator and noticed that rear spar was spreading skin too much - was
too thick from flange to flange, i.e., web was too high. Was again
apparent when put skin and skeleton into V-block jigs - elevator bottoms
out in center V-block at rear spar area. Skin aft of rear spar does not
touch V-block.
I held the rear spar on drawing before installing and the angles of
flanges looked OK (if I remember correctly, there was only a drawing for
the inboard end, and none for the outboard (narrow) end, which is the
end causing the currently visible problem, though I think the same thing
is perpetuated aft of the spar over the trim tab.
Was this another part I was supposed to "trial fit" and then take to a
sheet metal shop and use bending brake to reduce the height of the rear
spar web by 1/16 or so inch?
Is this a part that Van's has modified since my Jan 1997 kit delivery?
If so, did I miss the notice in the RVator and thus not order the new
part because I missed it?
Anyone else see this problem? Did you install "as is" or re-bend it?
David Carter, RV-6 left elevator, Nederland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Is there a web page or some such?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wentz, Don" <don.wentz(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Duckworks landing Light |
George,
The Duck here. I did in fact reply to your message, but evidently you
didn't
get it and I didn't get a bounce. Email, not perfect I guess. My
apologies!
Someone on the list (Colin Strong) fwded this thread to me this morning.
Here's the deal:
- RV-8 deliveries begin, Van's gets a call that the mount won't fit.
- Sure enough, I find-out that the outer bay is wider than the -4 or -6!
- After some investigation, we find that many builders do just like some of
the
replies, they make a quick mod and are OK.
- Others report that it fits OK as is.
- I attempt to ease the confusion with a change to the instructions
describing
some options.
- This 'kind of' works, although somehow the update to the instructions
gets-out
in stages (I expect Janet used the 'latest' revision while I was still
working
on it, to print a batch of them).
- I decided that I'd rather change the mount to make it fit the RV-8, the
RV-4 &
RV-6 guys already had to trim it anyway. I just couldn't get comfortable
with
making you guys modify the mounts.
So, we are now receiving the mounts in a length that fits the RV-8 without
trimming or anything (less than 1 inch longer)! I have responded to the
requests for 'what to do' by offering to swap-out the mounts for the new,
longer
ones. That was what my mail that never got to George suggested.
So, all you RV-8 builders that have the Duckworks Landing Light kits and
haven't
installed them yet, if they are 'too short', send them back to us and we'll
swap
for the corrected length, or you can make the slight changes recommended by
some
of the other builders here, your choice.
NOTE - We only recently began getting the new mounts, and as we were
using-up
the supply of original mounts, we tried to supply Van's with a mix. We
marked
the boxes with the NEW mounts as 'RV-8 only', in the hopes that Van's would
mate
these kits with RV-8 builders. (Of course, Van's called us to ask what
'RV-8
only' meant!). The reason I am telling all of you this, is so that IF you
AREN'T building an -8, and you happened to get a box marked 'RV-8 only',
DON'T
send it back!! Remember, the -4 and -6 guys need to trim the mount to
shorten
it for their bay, regardless if it's the new mount or not.
FYI, our new supplier is now making the 'Rivet Plate mounting Strip' for us,
and
we were able to negotiate a price for ALL of the parts that included this
new
one. So, those of you receiving kits now will get pre-made nut strips. Not
a
big deal, but it does make the kit that much easier. My original supplier
was
going to charge me over $3 each for those strips!! That is why we never
supplied them, I didn't think they were worth raising the price of the kits
$10.
Now we can offer them with no change in kit price, which is good for you
AND
us.
If you want a set of the strips (2 per kit), you can order them from Van's
for
$2 each, or send us an email and request them. <jwentz@columbia-center.org>
Once again, thank you to all who have ordered our kits, and for the
responses to
George's questions, we very much appreciate it! Good luck on your projects,
the
end result is worth it!
Don 'The Duck' Wentz, N790DW, 180HP RV-6, #20369, FF 6/30/94, 540hrs
Has anyone purchased a Duckworks light for installation in an RV-8?
I bought one from Vans only to find that the mounting bracket is too short
to fit in the outboard bay of the -8. The Installation
instructions mention this and state that there are instructions in a later
section on how to remedy this, but there are no such instructions.
jwentz at Duckworks has not responded to email.
Looks to me like fabricating a mounting bracket from scratch would solve the
problem, but would appreciate any suggestions from anyone who has already
faced and fixed it.
George Kilishek
#80006
|
|
|
|
|
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
Hal, Here it is. <<http://www.copperstate.org/ >> Jeff Farrar, RV8A,
Empennage complete, QB due in Nov., Chandler, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kempthorne <halk(at)sybase.com>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 11:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: Copperstate
>
>Is there a web page or some such?
>
>hal
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerobatics With Sensenich Prop |
Tony,
I enjoyed visiting with you, again, at Burlington.
>when a guy came up and started asking me how I like the Sensenich prop
>(even tho it is on a T-18 I think it still useful information). As we talked
>he told me that he help do some of the enginering on that prop
Was this guy's name Bob Bristol? If so, he is my wife's cousin. He was
employed at Sensenich and was involved with the developement of the prop. I
think he works for a helicopter outfit in Ft/ Collins (last I knew).
I just got back from another, one week work session on Charlie's RV6A. I
made a new emenage fairing finished up the elevators and trim tab and helped
him with the slider canopy. Boy, the slider is a lot more work than the tip-up!
Regards,
Bob Skinner
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna in Tail? |
I see a lot of -4s with the ELT antenna under the canopy along side the
rollbar. Thats what I intended to do when the time finally comes. If the
FAA says the antenna has to be external can you cite the FAR?
Thanks,
Mike Wills
RV_4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>
>The latest FAA requirement re ELT's not only concerns the operation on
>121.5mHz and 243.0mHz but also requires an externally mounted antenna.
>FWIW.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
My wife takes a half of a DramamineII (nondrowsy) every time she flies
with me.
Her reasoning is from experience and it works well for her.
The only other thing I can think of is lots of rollercoaster rides
to get her used to the feeling (yeah-right!).
Ralph Capen
RV6a Dallas
Emp inventory...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Install a G meter. Even after you are familiar with the airplane you will
need to glance at it periodically to recalibrate your pull. The bulk of the
RV's flight envelope is well above corner velocity, thus it is possible to
inflict a very serious over-G even from cruise flight.
Check six,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST connecting things in the engine room
>
>I am laying out my new panel now. The one instrument I did not consider
(until
>now) adding is a G-meter. Are all you guys shooting each other down, i.e.,
having
>the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your body
to tell
>you if the load limit of the structure is being reached?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
We used two methods to relieve airsickness in T-37 students. One was to put
them on 100% oxygen, but that wouldn't help in most RVs. The other, more
effective, was to give them the stick. While the mind is preoccupied with
other tasks, it has less time to worry about discomfort. Most students
would overcome airsickness in three or four rides. If you can get your wife
interested and involved in the flying she will likely overcome her
airsickness with experience. In the mean time, have her look out the front
rather than over the side or down inside the cockpit.
Good luck,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST connecting things in the engine room
>
>can a person get acclimated to motion sickness? what can i
>do do make her more accustom to this? there must be some sort of exercises
>she can do?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: floored by shop construction decision |
| From: | aerobubba(at)Juno.com (glen j matejcek) |
Although not yet building my -8 (arrgh!) I did build a shop under my
house specifically to accommodate just such a project. My house is on
quite a slope, and a portion of the "crawl space" was up to 11' deep,
with a steeply sloping and uneven gravel floor.
I leveled the 'floor' along one axis, making the surface planar, laid
vapor barrier, and built the wooden structure of treated wood joists and
T&G 3/4 oxboard flooring. One end of the joists (over the higher side of
the earthen floor) are supported by an angle 'iron' fabricated of treated
2x8's sitting on the vapor barrier. The other ends are on top of a 2x10
shot to the concrete foundation wall.
The whole structure is VERY rigid, made the county building inspector
happy, and cost about 1/4 to 1/3 what it would to pump concrete. Plus,
whenever I've needed to, I've been able to nail or screw right into the
floor. It's warm in the winter and easy on my feet. It's painted
'battleship grey', which makes it easier to find dropped small parts than
the original camouflage effect of the natural oxboard. Painting it a
lighter color would reduce the lighting requirements of the shop, but
portable lights actually suit my various project needs quite well. Water
is no problem at all, and I have a dehumidifier to protect my tools (and
woodworking projects) from the inherent basement humidity.
As far as the pine floor and being exposed to the elements, if it has
adequate air circulation and is protected from standing water, it
shouldn't be a problem. You can also get a product called 'cuprinol'
which you can use to 'green treat' your own lumber. Lastly, since I grew
up on hardwood floors, I wouldn't dream of varnishing a shop floor for
fear of breaking my leg on the slick surface.
I hope this all provides some food for thought, and feel free to contact
me at aerobubba(at)juno.com if you'd like.
gm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
>
>can a person get acclimated to motion sickness?
>what can i do do make her more accustom to this?
You definitely can build up your/her tolerance! First of all, take her
up early in the morning when it is smoothest before convective heating
starts, and start with shorter trips. Also, keep the flights short and
build them up. One key point here is that as SOON as she starts feeling
bad (cold sweat, "pricklies", queasy, whatever), get back to the airport
asap. The longer you wait, the longer the bad funk will stay with her
that day. Even once every week or two will start building up her
tolerance quickly.
This is the same as G tolerance. When I was taking aerobatics, about 10
*steep* (60-70 degree) turns in each direction and I started turning
green (over 2G for an extended period of time). The next week, it took
steep turns and a bunch of aileron rolls before I turned green. The
week after that, it took some steep turns, some aileron rolls, and some
loops, etc.
I did Air Combat in a SIAI Marchetti SF.260 and talk about green!
Unfortunately this was before any aerobatic training and my tolerance
was *low*! In the 5th dogfight we were pulling 6 G's over the top for
what seemed like 20 seconds, I grayed out when I couldn't hold it in
anymore. Still concious, but went from tunnel vision & black/white
world to just plain black looking! Of course, after paying that much
for the session, I wasn't about to call it off even though I started
tasting my breakfast so continued with the last dogfight. I never puked
but had the "funk" for about five hours afterwards! I think my skin
color was matching the flight suit and I'm pretty sure a steam cloud
came out of my helmet when I took it off. Oddly, even after all that
the SF.260 is still my favorite plane!
What was the question again?
Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME
San Jose, CA Engine mounted...
President/Newsletter Editor Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
Motion sickness, as I understand it, can "come and go" . . . in the same
amount of turbulence you can be fine on a Monday, sick on a Tuesday, and
fine again on a Wednesday. Has she tried the new versions of Dramamine (the
non-drowsy type)? I was on a catamaran trip off the coast of Hawaii--forty
people on board . . . 13 violently ill. I was in great shape because I took
the Dramamine about a half our before the trip. On a recent sailplane ride
where I was in the back seat, we were flying near Pike's Peak and a moderate
amount of up/down/sideways/backwards type of stuff. Again--I took dramamine
before the flight and had no problems.
Also, next commercial flight you might ask a flight attendent for an answer
to this.
Hope this helps. May your air sickness bag remain empty.
-----Original Message-----
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Air sickness
>
>Dear Listers,
>the only time my wife ever flew with me from miami to tampa and back,( a
>really bad day for flying ) she got very air sick, now she demands she
will
>never fly again, can a person get acclimated to motion sickness? what can
i
>do do make her more accustom to this? there must be some sort of exercises
>she can do? these acro guys must know something. any sean tuckers or
patty
>waggstaffs out their willing to comment?
>scott
>winging it in tampa
>wings looking like wings
>opening up a can of proseal today ( ohh boy )
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Copperstate Web Page |
The official Copperstate Web Page is http://www.copperstate.org
Hope to see you there!
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Harris" <johnh(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Partner wanted for C-140 |
I am looking for a partner for a low time C-140 to be based at Cox Field in
Apex, NC. Well maintained, low purchase price. We can fly for $6 per hour to
get/stay current while completing RV, then recoup investment.
Reply directly to johnh(at)bellsouth.net or call at
303-3198.
John Harris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <hyde(at)bcl.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
There is a prescription drug that is supposed to be pretty effective for
motion sickness -- sailing people use it quite a lot. It is a prescription
drug because some people can't tolerate it, so if your wife is willing to
try it, she should try it on the ground before going up in the air with it.
I checked it out when I was trying to get my wife into my sailboat. She
complained about motion sickness, but when I talked to the Dr. about the
drug, she admitted that she was using seasickness as an excuse -- she just
didn't want to go on the boat.
>
>Dear Listers,
>the only time my wife ever flew with me from miami to tampa and back,( a
>really bad day for flying ) she got very air sick, now she demands she will
>never fly again, can a person get acclimated to motion sickness? what can i
>do do make her more accustom to this? there must be some sort of exercises
>she can do? these acro guys must know something. any sean tuckers or patty
>waggstaffs out their willing to comment?
>scott
>winging it in tampa
>wings looking like wings
>opening up a can of proseal today ( ohh boy )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | ELT Requirements; External Antanna |
Someone asked for an FAR reference; look up FAA TSO (Technical Standard
Order) numberC-91A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Chat Daniel wrote:
>
> Joe...
>
> If you have ever really pulled 6 G's you dont need to ask that question.
> Anything past 3-4 G's and you are entering the discomfort zone. The
> average non military pilot would probably start to gray-out at about 5-6
> G's.
>
> Having said that, I like having a G meter just to know how much you are
> stressing the plane and the pilot.
I'm afraid I must disagree. G-tolerance is quite different with different
individuals. And unless you have a test pilot's calibrated backside, you are a
very unreliable g-meter. The +6 g limit means that something CAN bend at 6.1 g's,
but still get you home in one piece. 5.5 g's in an rv is relatively easy to do
if
you are g-tolerant, & anyone asking about the value of a g-meter is unlikely to
know his own tolerance.
To paraphrase and old saying, "If you have to ask, then yes, you need it."
Charlie
flying -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
If you want info on any TSO punch into this web site:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/air100/tsocur/Current.htm
The requirement for external mounting of ELT antenna is covered under the
need to have agency approval for installation procedures and limitations as
supplied by the maker under TSO-C91A, para c (1) (iii). Manufacturers will
include that requirement in their installation instructions that accompany
the unit you purchase if that was after the effective date of the TSO which
was a few years back. No retrofitting of existing units was ever required
to my knowledge.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
<< she got very air sick, now she demands she will
never fly again, can a person get acclimated to motion sickness? what can i
do do make her more accustom to this? there must be some sort of exercises
she can do? these acro guys must know something. any sean tuckers or patty
waggstaffs out their willing to comment? >>
I heard that the first time Sean Tucker went up in a small plane, he got
sicker than a dog. So what does this tell us? Absolutely a person can get
acclimated to the normal turbulence encountered in flying small planes (and
them some for Sean). You get good at what you do most often. More flying is
the answer, IMO.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
Question
I have no experience with G-meters, but plan on having one. Are there meters
available that record the maximum G's that were pulled and can be reset later.
I believe the military uses them.
Jim Nice
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Partain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com> |
I am looking for a sale agreement for experimental aircraft that would cover
liability and warranty issues. If anyone has a copy please fax or email to:
aviator(at)tseinc.com Fax 314-894-7011
Thank You in advance
Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Gummo <Thomas(at)efep.org> |
I was once an Air - To - Air Instructor in the F-4G Wild Weasels and I
have been reading the posts about the RV "Aces" and can't wait until my
RV flies (working on the fuselage) so I can have some of the fun too. I
would like to say GET TRAINING before you do this. The question would
be WHERE. At what COST, there is a local "Top Gun" flight program but I
understand it costs more than $400 per hour.
The next best bet would be find a "fighter pilot" who can explain all
the dangers of performing BFM (Basic Fighter Maneuvers).
However, I do have one comment on the method one RV "Ace" described.
He talked about them separating to 3 to 4 miles and losing sight. I
would NEVER LOSS SIGHT OF THE OTHER PLANE AT ANYTIME, not during the
setup, not during the fight, and not during the recovery. Any time
sight is lost by both parties, it is a EMERGENCY. It is critical to
inform the other pilot anytime you lose sight. If he has sight of you,
he can direct you to safely fly your plane until sight is restored.
LOSE SIGHT LOSE FIGHT. I would stop any fight where someone loses sight
of the other plane.
If you want to start a dogfight from a neutral setup, I wouldn't go much
past 1 or 2 thousand feet apart. You only need room to complete the
turn toward the other plane, establish a stabilized flight path so each
of you can determine you will pass without hitting each other (in fact
you don't want to ever fly inside the minimum safe distance established
before the flight, say 200 to 300 feet) and then start the fight as the
two planes pass and the Flight Lead calls the "FIGHTS ON!!"
Come out to Apple Valley Airport and I will talk Air to Air all night.
Come after this spring and I will gladly show you. (Remember, TALK IS
CHEAP).
Tom Gummo
(in the phone book)
USAF Retired
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
For those of you interested in installing Micro-Vortex generators on your RVs,
here is the info. I just got off the phone with Charles White from Micro
AeroDynamics of Anacordes, WA
ph 360-293-8082, on the web at <http://www.microaero.com>
I will add this to the new Yeller Pages rev.
They have a new kit for the RVs that has just completed testing. The
installation instructions are being written as we speak. He tells me that, if
you identify yourself as an RV-Lister, you will get a good discount from list
price. The VGs come with directions, templates and are attached using Loctite
330 adhesive.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna in Tail? |
Just a Note,
I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol. Big Deal.
Just to let anyone know that after a succesful ELT search that most
times happens to be a hard landing, the aircraft cannot be entered due
to the thing being locked. We don't have any rights whatsoever to brake
in an aircraft in any way to turn off the ELT. What we do is to wrap the
antenna with aluminum foil to disable it from emmiting the signal that
the sat is recieving. Now to my point.
If an antenna is installed inside any metal it won't work.
Bill Jaugilas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernard Banche" <bb8212(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
If you're looking for something other than a drug store solution, ginger
root is supposed to be effective in preventing motion sickness. It is
available in capsules at health food stores.
B. Banche
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernard Banche" <bb8212(at)hotmail.com> |
There is an outstanding book on the subject titled Every Man A Tiger.
The name of the author escapes me right now. If you can find it I
highly recommend reading it.
B. Banche
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>One other check that may be used is one of those relatively cheap
>laser
>pointers.
>If you set the pointer up in such a way that it points directly
>through the
>hole then screw the nut on and adjust for proper tension, you get the
>ideal
>hole position marked on the nut by laser. Just center punch there and
>then
>put extra holes 1/8" either side of the ideal for adjustments. If you
>need
>some ideas on how to set up the laser pointer contact me off list.
> Al
>
Great idea!
Since we don't have one of those in the shop I never even thought of it,
but now that you mentioned this I can think of all kinds of uses for one.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 fuse jig question |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>When I built and positioned my fuselage jig, I didn't know that the
>partially assembled fuselage would need to be removed from the jig
>after
>skinning for some interior work, THEN placed BACK on the jig for the
>gear mounting duties. My dilemma is that I don't have any place to put
>
>the fuselage on the floor (roof support posts in the way) without
>taking
>the jig apart..or re-engineering the roof structure of the shop
>(yikes!). Is it possible to just place the inverted fuselage on some
>beefy sawhorses for the forward floor/gear assembly, or is the jig an
>absolute necessity? I understand the need for a level and rigid
>support,
>but that jig is going to be a real pain to get around when I'm done
>with
>the skinning chores.
>
If you use something solid that wont allow any wobbling or movement it
should work fine.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Horace W. Weeks" <74664.2105(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Throttle Cable Length |
Bill,
I had the same problem you described when I installed a 42.5" throttle
cable in my RV-6. Van's have a 45.5" cable in stock and they allowed me to
exchange mine for the 45.5" cable. It fits OK allowing a little "S" bend
from my panel extension to the firewall.
Ace Weeks
installing wheel fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
In a message dated 10/2/98 2:52:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time, joewalk@hal-
pc.org writes:
<< Are all you guys shooting each other down, i.e., having
the most fun; installing G-meters or are you using the stress on your body to
tell
you if the load limit of the structure is being reached?
>>
I owned a Swift with a G meter in it. You really have no idea how many
Gs you are pulling without a G meter,especially in a dog fight, I wouldn`t be
without one. Fred LaForge RV-4 wt. and balance soon. in So Cal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
The first time My wife flew with me she did the same thing. There is
nothing purposfuly to do but to fly again. She did and now does not get
sick. There is a time where one becomes addicted to motion sickness
pills and then finds later that you don't need them.
You are absolutly correct in assuming that you learn to roll with the
punches.
Bill Jaugilas
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Dear Listers,
> the only time my wife ever flew with me from miami to tampa and back,( a
> really bad day for flying ) she got very air sick, now she demands she will
> never fly again, can a person get acclimated to motion sickness? what can i
> do do make her more accustom to this? there must be some sort of exercises
> she can do? these acro guys must know something. any sean tuckers or patty
> waggstaffs out their willing to comment?
> scott
> winging it in tampa
> wings looking like wings
> opening up a can of proseal today ( ohh boy )
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation- another 2 cents worth |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>If the parts don't work as produced, why not change the specification
>on one
>or the other part? I would think that leaving the hole out of the axle
>shouldn't add too much to the price. Two different retainer nuts might
>lead to
>some inventory confusion..
>
I think you partially answered that question yourself.
Van's doesn't produce the axles so can't do much about the holes in
those.
It would be a problem maintaining unmixed inventory on 2 parts that look
identical except for slightly different hole position.
>As no factory recommendations ever came with any of the Rockets (using
>the
>same axle/wheel/spacers/nut as the -8), we came up with the following:
>
>Install a wheel (without tire) with the correct spacers on the axle.
>Tighten the nut to correct torque
>drill thru the nut and axle with a long #30 bit, putting a new hole in
>the
>axle
>
>We would also rotate the nut 1/2 flat, or 30 deg, and drill another
>hole about
>60 deg from the first hole. This allows some adjustment for wear.
>
>A hole slightly larger than #30 allows for an easier 1/8" cotter pin
>insertion- maybe #28.
>
Sounds like that technic would work fine also.
I tend to lean more towards preferring having extra holes in the nut
instead of a lot of extra holes in the axle, but it probably doesn't
matter.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are my own
and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
My wife is very prone to air sickness, and car sickness (if see is not
driving). We were visiting my folks a couple of years ago, and my mother
gave her a pair of elastic braclet kind of things, with a large bump in
each one. I think they were called accu pressure braclets, or something
like that. They came with very specific instructions as to where to put
them on your wrist, and how to position the bump.
We both thought it was load of crap, but my wife decided to try them on the
way home. They worked. She has worn them on several flights and they
always seemed to work. I have no idea whether they really do something, or
whether it is all in the head - but the bottom line is that they helped my
wife. Your mileage may vary.
My wife threw the box and instuctions out, so I have no idea who makes them.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
Ottawa, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
Boy, did you open a can of worms!!!!
>
>I am looking for a sale agreement for experimental aircraft that would cover
>liability and warranty issues. If anyone has a copy please fax or email to:
>aviator(at)tseinc.com Fax 314-894-7011
>
>Thank You in advance
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ian Kerr" <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Partner wanted for C-140 |
I can second that. Anyone in at San Mateo airport (SF bay area) want to go
in on a good old cheap Cessna to build learn in? I'm open to Mooney's,
Musketeers etc., but let's keep costs down so I can afford an RV kit+
engine.
Ian Kerr
>
>I am looking for a partner for a low time C-140 to be based at Cox Field in
>Apex, NC. Well maintained, low purchase price. We can fly for $6 per hour
to
>get/stay current while completing RV, then recoup investment.
>Reply directly to johnh(at)bellsouth.net or call at
>303-3198.
>
>John Harris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
As odd as this may sound, try eating a big breakfast just before flying. It
helps to keep the stomach in one place, which aids in keeping from getting
sick...just hope it works, or you will have a big mess....also temperature
inside has made a big difference for me and my wife...keep the cool air flowing!
Paul Besing
>>can a person get acclimated to motion sickness? what can i
>>do do make her more accustom to this? there must be some sort of exercises
>>she can do?
>
>
>
>
>
>
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C&F Hiatt <hiatt001(at)gold.tc.umn.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
Try Bonine. It doesn't cause drowsiness. Also get her to take part in
the flight, the distraction helps.
Fred
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aerobubba(at)Juno.com (glen j matejcek) |
The authors name is Frank O'Brien, with Timothy R.V. Foster, and is
published by Ziff-Davis in 1981
gm
writes:
>
>There is an outstanding book on the subject titled Every Man A Tiger.
>
>The name of the author escapes me right now. If you can find it I
>highly recommend reading it.
>
>B. Banche
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Self-etching Primers |
| From: | aerobubba(at)Juno.com (glen j matejcek) |
Does anybody have any input on the topic of self-etching primers? Steel
vs Al?
gm.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com (SCOTT R MCDANIELS) |
>Scott, This is not completely true. Only above maneuvering speed can
>you
>pull more than the rated max G limit. Below that speed it is who has
>the
>highest Max Lift coeficient that can turn tighter. If the the lead can
>only pull 4.5g's at 110mph before stalling and the aggressor can pull
>5g's at 110, then who is turning tighter.My experience is that the
>majority of the dog fight is spent below Maneuvering speed.Terry
>
>
>
Ok, if we are going to pick nits about this you are probably right.
I was speaking in much more of a general sense, comparing 2 RV's that are
likely to be nearly the same in performance (as far as turning ability
goes anyway).
As for speed... My experience is with flight from one end of the green
arc to the other (we always made top of the green arc the max allowed).
Post's that others made on this thread show that my main point must have
been misunderstood.
I never intended to imply that I fly around pulling near 6 G's in a turn
going around and around trying to stay behind someone.
I was trying to raise the awareness of RV pilots to realize that if the
guy they are following is pulling hard, and they are pulling even harder
(and yes... for this example we will assume they are above manuv. speed).
He may be just fine pulling 4 G's because he is at or near his aerobatic
gross weight. With you pulling just a little harder you could be over
loading the airplane because you are above gross weight.
Remember - An RV is approved for flight at a loading of up to 6 G's ,
but "NOT" at the standard gross weight the airplane is approved
for. 6 G's is only allowed if you are at or below the aerobatic gross
weight. It concerns me how many pilots I talk to that are flying RV's
and don't know this (or that think it is approved for 9 G's)
So if you are flying in a configuration that I used in my orig. example
(good sized passenger friend, near full load of fuel) you could be
loading the airplane to the max load allowed when only pulling 4.5 G's(or
even less, if you have a heavy RV). Pull just a little more (again as
mentioned in my example) and you are now flying in the danger zone (and
no I don't mean that you begin hearing the "Top Gun" movie sound track in
your head set).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wheel Nut Installation- another 2 cents worth |
Although this was listed for nose wheel bearings, it also is the same for
the mains.
le" spacers for the nose wheel bearings you
spacer that goes in between, you are to just assemble every thing and
torque the axle nut to 7 ft. lbs.
This will preload the bearings the proper amount.
The wheel will not spin freely though because of the drag of the rubber
dust seals on the bearings.
FYI... These instructions are for the matco (now supplied) not the
cleveland nose wheel.
BTW when switching to a different nose wheel which required a different
bearing, Tom Green spent time talking to engineers an Timkin bearing.
One thing we learned was that a bearing being operated without the proper
preload was bad, bad, bad.
When adjusting your wheel bearings they should be set up so that their is
some drag (it wont hurt the bearing a bit). So when adjusting the axle
nut, chose the next tighter cotter pin hole to make it just slightly
tight, rather than a hole that will leave it loose and free spinning.
-----Original Message-----
From: SCOTT R MCDANIELS <smcdaniels(at)Juno.com>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wheel Nut Installation- another 2 cents worth
>
>
>>If the parts don't work as produced, why not change the specification
>>on one
>>or the other part? I would think that leaving the hole out of the axle
>>shouldn't add too much to the price. Two different retainer nuts might
>>lead to
>>some inventory confusion..
>>
>I think you partially answered that question yourself.
>Van's doesn't produce the axles so can't do much about the holes in
>those.
>It would be a problem maintaining unmixed inventory on 2 parts that look
>identical except for slightly different hole position.
>
>>As no factory recommendations ever came with any of the Rockets (using
>>the
>>same axle/wheel/spacers/nut as the -8), we came up with the following:
>>
>>Install a wheel (without tire) with the correct spacers on the axle.
>>Tighten the nut to correct torque
>>drill thru the nut and axle with a long #30 bit, putting a new hole in
>>the
>>axle
>>
>>We would also rotate the nut 1/2 flat, or 30 deg, and drill another
>>hole about
>>60 deg from the first hole. This allows some adjustment for wear.
>>
>>A hole slightly larger than #30 allows for an easier 1/8" cotter pin
>>insertion- maybe #28.
>>
>Sounds like that technic would work fine also.
>I tend to lean more towards preferring having extra holes in the nut
>instead of a lot of extra holes in the axle, but it probably doesn't
>matter.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are my own
>and do not necessarily reflect the opinions
>of my employer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
The elastic things are called C-Bands or was it SEA Bands? My wife uses
them and you can buy them at the local drug store....they do seem to work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Partner wanted for C-140 |
In a message dated 10/2/98 2:59:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
johnh(at)bellsouth.net writes:
<< We can fly for $6 per hour to
get/stay current while completing RV, then recoup investment. >>
TOO BAD. Wrong side of the country. SHUCKS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna in Tail? |
In a message dated 10/2/98 4:59:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jaugilas(at)allways.net writes:
<< What we do is to wrap the
antenna with aluminum foil to disable it from emmiting the signal that
the sat is recieving. >>
Bill
Doesn't the wrapping of the antenna cause the signal to be reflected back to
the unit? I would think that this "may" cause the ELT to fail. I don't know.
Does it?? Or, is the unit protected by a diode of some sort?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Larson <jpl(at)showpg.mn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Air sickness |
I have. Just going up enough worked for me. But I still don't do
aerobatics and maybe never will. I turn interesting shades of white
during spin practice. -J
> can a person get acclimated to motion sickness?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Pictures of Ed Anderson's Mazda are online |
I have added 11 pictures that Ed Anderson sent of his RV-6A Mazda 13B first
flight to my web page. http://www.flash.net/~donmack
I have never met Ed. I assume he is the guy with the RV grin.
Don Mack
RV-6A Fuselage
Ercoupe 415-D
donmack(at)flash.net
icq 16679225
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna in Tail? |
J
> << What we do is to wrap the
> antenna with aluminum foil to disable it from emmiting the signal that
> the sat is recieving. >>
> Bill
> Doesn't the wrapping of the antenna cause the signal to be reflected back to
> the unit? I would think that this "may" cause the ELT to fail. I don't know.
> Does it?? Or, is the unit protected by a diode of some sort?
If the ELT is inside the locked aircraft and you wrap it in aluminum foil to
disable the signal, wouldn't it
take quite a bit of foil to do a complete RV-6? :-))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Left Elev Rear Spar Mis-shaped (RV-6) |
> After installing rear spar in left elevator, laid my 18 inch ruler on
> elevator and noticed that rear spar was spreading skin too much - was
> too thick from flange to flange, i.e., web was too high.
David,
Almost every RV I've looked at has this problem - the spar is simply made
wrong. Was in 1993 and apparently still is. Just cut a slot down the
whole thing and rivet on a doubler to hook them back together with
appropriate flange/flange dimension.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: VG's on RV's |
Scott:
Actually that comment was meant as a joke. The thought I had of two RVs, locked
in
mortal combat, in a tight spiral, pulling exactly 6 gees, staring at their
g-meters with neither daring to pull 6.1, seemed rather humorous. You are one of
the most clear and concise writers on the list. I was just asking if you, and the
other guys doing air combat, were using g-meters. It would seem so.
My Piper is allowed mild aerobatics in the utility category at greatly reduced
weight. It isn't allowed anything at gross. I was (am) surprised that Van's
approves aerobatics at gross weight. I haven't done the math but you probably
should not exceed around 4 gees. I have found that some pilots do not understand
that the 6 gee limit is for the wing, not the passengers. Depending upon fuel,
passengers, etc., the stress on the wing at 6 gee at aerobatic weight may be the
same as 4 or 5 gee at gross weight. I am sure anyone doing this has run the
numbers.I certainly will before the bird takes to the air.
As always, your wisdom is appreciated,
Joe Walker
Paneling (shopping for a gee meter)
Houston, Texas
SCOTT R MCDANIELS wrote:
> Post's that others made on this thread show that my main point must have
> been misunderstood.
> I never intended to imply that I fly around pulling near 6 G's in a turn
> going around and around trying to stay behind someone.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net> |
| Subject: | Gretz Aero address change |
Hello RV builders,
I now have a new e-mail address. If you need to contact me for
information about my products, or to receive a set of flyers on my
products, please contact me at my new e-mail address of:
gretz_aero(at)h2net.net
Thanks
Gretz Aero
Warren Gretz
3664 East Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
303-770-3811
gretz_aero(at)h2net.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Left Elev Rear Spar Mis-shaped (RV-6) |
>> After installing rear spar in left elevator, laid my 18 inch ruler on
>> elevator and noticed that rear spar was spreading skin too much - was
>> too thick from flange to flange, i.e., web was too high.
>
>David,
>Almost every RV I've looked at has this problem - the spar is simply made
>wrong. Was in 1993 and apparently still is. Just cut a slot down the
>whole thing and rivet on a doubler to hook them back together with
>appropriate flange/flange dimension.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove MN
Or, you could bend the spar flanges down slightly, remove a bit of
material on the top and bottom of the outboard end by polishing them a bit
with a Scotchbrite wheel (and don't slide it in so far as to create a bulge
in the elevator skin) and move the spar slightly forward.
When I built my left elevator in the early 90's the elevator spar where
the trim tab hinge attaches caused a bulge in the skin. I just completed
Gillette Charlie's left elevator and trim tab using the above methods and
it turned out very well.
Bob Skinner RV-6 N369X 450 hrs Buffalo, Wyoming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
<< I am looking for a sale agreement for experimental aircraft that would
cover
liability and warranty issues. If anyone has a copy please fax or email to:
aviator(at)tseinc.com Fax 314-894-7011
>>
How's this one?
I (Tony XXXXXX) agree to sell Experimental AC XXX
for the amount of XXXX. The buyer XXXXX understands that the AC was built by
an amatuer builder and is not safe on the back of a trailer, and will surely
fall apart if flown in the air. The buyer and his family, all 1,000 of them
understand this and accept full responsibility for the damage that this AC
could cause to some person or some thing including him or herself. This piece
of junk will be sold as is and will not be covered by any warranty.
Seller_________________
Buyer _________________
Maybe im a little simpe minded but I think that should take care
of it!
Ryan Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Back riveting |
| From: | rv8er(at)Juno.com (Steven B Sanner) |
I ground a flat area on one side of the plastic collar of the back rivet
set which allows better centering of the set on the rivet since the
distance form the rivet to the stiffener angle does not allow for enough
clearance otherwise. I also hold the collar in place while riveting to
keep the set from wondering.
Steve S
av8er(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV instruction in New York NEXT WEEK SIGN UP NOW, please |
>Listers, We have had a BUNCH of cancellations for the RV6 Instruction
>next week, please help out.
>
> RV6 CFI Instruction Tue. Wed, Thurs. & perhaps Fri. (Oct 6, 7,
>8, & 9?).
>__
> Michael Seegar (CFI from the West Coast) will be East to give
>instruction in a factory RV6 ($70 per hobbs hour) at Oswego County
>Airport at Fulton, New York. "Slot" times and dates are as follow
>(initialed are already scheduled ___ blank times are openings):
> Tues Wed Thurs
> Oct 6 Oct 7 Oct 8
> 8:30 ____ DC BSt*
> 9:45 ____ SS
>11:00 MM NK
> Lunch
> 1:30 ____ DC BSt
> 3:00 ____ SS BN**
> 4:30 DM AM**
>__
>*Tentative time for second hour.
>**Could be bumped.
>__
> We have prospects in PA who might like to share traveling so
>let us know!!!
>We can try to coordinate with you all. ie: (Erie, Philadelphia,
>Dushore).
>__
>Contact: Dale Buller, 315: 451-1304 or (preferred) dmbuller(at)Juno.com
>__
> Thanks, Dale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cable Length |
Dear Horace:
Thanks for the reply. The 42.5" cable I have has a friction lock on
it. Does your cable have vernier or friction lock controls? Thanks. Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Horace W. Weeks <74664.2105(at)compuserve.com>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 9:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Throttle Cable Length
<74664.2105(at)compuserve.com>
>
>Bill,
>I had the same problem you described when I installed a 42.5" throttle
>cable in my RV-6. Van's have a 45.5" cable in stock and they allowed me to
>exchange mine for the 45.5" cable. It fits OK allowing a little "S" bend
>from my panel extension to the firewall.
>Ace Weeks
>installing wheel fairings
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
subcribe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
Ryan,
I am not an attorney, nor would I ever want to be one - but if I am not
mistaken the Buyer can not sign away the rights of his family members.
So the problem is no matter wha you & he sign - if someone wants to take you
to court your gonna get taken to court. The only defense is to make one self
judgement proof. That means nothing in your name -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT Antenna in Tail? |
Won't have to wrap it. While your dying after a crash and the ELT is
going off (inside a metal plane), the satellite won't pick up anything.
No one will come.
Douglas G. Murray wrote:
> If the ELT is inside the locked aircraft and you wrap it in aluminum foil to
> disable the signal, wouldn't it
> take quite a bit of foil to do a complete RV-6? :-))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EAGLECLIFF(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Partner wanted for a RV6/8 |
I am looking for someone willing to sell a 50% partnership in a RV6 or 8 based
in the Denver area. Please reply directly to eaglecliff(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bill of sale |
Tony: Just take off the wings, propeller, coul, and anything else easly removed,
and sell it as AIRCRAFT (HOMEBUILT) PARTS.
RV4131rb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << I am looking for a sale agreement for experimental aircraft that would
> cover
> liability and warranty issues. If anyone has a copy please fax or email to:
> aviator(at)tseinc.com Fax 314-894-7011
> >>
> How's this one?
> I (Tony XXXXXX) agree to sell Experimental AC XXX
> for the amount of XXXX. The buyer XXXXX understands that the AC was built by
> an amatuer builder and is not safe on the back of a trailer, and will surely
> fall apart if flown in the air. The buyer and his family, all 1,000 of them
> understand this and accept full responsibility for the damage that this AC
> could cause to some person or some thing including him or herself. This piece
> of junk will be sold as is and will not be covered by any warranty.
> Seller_________________
> Buyer _________________
>
> Maybe im a little simpe minded but I think that should take care
> of it!
> Ryan Co.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
Listers:
While visiting with a friend who owns an aircraft business at our local
airport I asked about the corpon primer he uses on the parts they make and
the reconstructions they perform.
He told me they use corpon as a primer sealer on inner (out of sight)
surfaces only.
The reason expressed was that corpon is very tough stuff, it is acid proof,
September 28, 1998 - October 03, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-fn