RV-Archive.digest.vol-fs

October 26, 1998 - October 31, 1998



      
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From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Mph vs. Kts?
BRAVO ! BRAVO ! PAT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Deal Fair" <dealfair(at)bcni.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Connection and Location
Date: Oct 26, 1998
> From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Connection and Location > Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 10:36 AM > > > I am somewhat confused as to the size of AN816 nipple fitting I need to > thread into the engine (0-360) to hook up the oil cooler hoses. My oil > cooler is a Setrab with AN-8 size male(tube) fittings. What size is the > pipe thread in the engine? Which AN-816 steel fitting would I need, and > what size hoses to order to mate up with the oil cooler? > Along the same lines, I have seen two oil cooler failures in the last > year, both mounted onto the engine(one was yesterday on a local RV-8). > My conclusion is that if you mount the oil cooler on the engine, the > extreme vibration levels will make it much more likely to fail than if > mounted on the firewall. Von, You sure may be right about the mounting location. Other than being in the way, my firewall mount has given me no problems over many flying hours. I fly a lot (Need my RV-4 fix!) Now that you mention it, my buddy with the engine mount is stictly a weekend flyer with maybe an hour or so per weekend at the most. Hmmmmm!! Better think about this. As to your question about fittings and sizes, I can't provide answers until this weekend. Hopefully someone else has your answers handy and will get back to you shortly. If not, I'll have an information mission for the weekend. Will really be interesting to see how Tom Craig-Stearman fares on his project. Seems a good idea to me. Good Luck you guys! Deal Fair George West, Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Mph vs. Kts?
Hal Kempthorne wrote: > IFR is all in knots. > > Marketing dudes like mph as it gives higher, more impressive numbers and is easy > for road types. > > Why is experimental so mph oriented?? > I think that all us Canadians ought to go Metric so our bird will top out at 300 KPH :-)) Now THAT'S impressive. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com>
Subject: 6A Main Axle Question
I have a 1998 kit and would appreciate answers to the following: 1) Axle has 5/16 hole thru both it and the U403 Brake Mounting flange. This hole is so close to the vertical part of the flange that neither the bolt head nor the nut can be turned. Interestingly I received no AN-5 bolts of the proper size to fit the hole. Van's instructions allude to "...the allen head screw that secures it." (U403) Well, the only 5/16 allen head screws I received are much too short to go thru the axle and the hole isn't threaded anyway. What am I missing here? 2) I have gone thru the plans, preview plans, sketches and photos and find only those two tiny views of the main axles (plan #49) and these do not specify the bolt in question. Have I missed some critical data? This is gettin' kind of frustrating... Jim RV6A New Mexico canopy done ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Must reading for all listers
Doug Rozendaal wrote: > > > > > >Listers, > > > >It's about that time of year again. Those of you who have been on the list > >for a while know that about twice a year we like to promote taking up a > >VOLUNTARY collection for Matt. > > I just did the online credit card thing for Matt. Have you? Why not? Let > me tell you why I did it. > > I am not a builder. Never will be. I am a flyer. I subscribe to this list > for these reasons. First of all, I have met some of the nicest people in > the world here and we have common bond in flying. Secondly, as a > non-builder it clues me in on areas in the airplane that I need to watch > maintenance wise. Those of you who built your own know them personally. > Those of us who bought them need the benefit of that insight. Finally, as > most of you know, from time to time I have opinions. I am presumptuous > enough to believe that some of my opinions may be of benefit to others that > have not been fortunate (or unfortunate) to have shared some of my > experiences. I enjoy sharing them and also the mental exercise of defending > them when challenged. > > In short, if you can't save enough money from the hints you find on this > list, to throw a few bucks to Matt & Co. for providing this valuable > service, You can't afford to build or fly an RV. > > It is real easy just click here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html > > Tailwinds, N240 the pink panther > Doug Rozendaal > dougr(at)petroblend.com > http://www.petroblend.com/dougr > I have to agree with Al and Doug here even though it has been almost ten years since I finished my RV-6 I still learn new things from this list. I was talking to Van one day and we were talking about the quality of the RVs now being built he told me that he used to be afraid the quality of the finished RVs would go down as more and more airplanes were being built because of the builders being spread farther from the hard core builders base. But as he said just the opposite has happened because of all of the builders helping builders. Because of passing on tips and better ways to do things there are some absolutely gorgeous RVs flying. I have been fortunate enough to have met Matt Dralle personally and to know that he has put a lot of effort, time and money into providing this avenue for us to share ideas for making better and safer RVs. One of the greatest assets of this RV-list has been that I have met and made some friends that will last a life time. I used the contribution link in about June or July and will be doing so again around December. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Mph vs. Kts?
Date: Oct 26, 1998
I really dislike the gauges with two scales. They are too busy, therefore less readable at a glance. Further, we pilots want to remember just one number for each flight condition, not two. Because of the purpose of the airspeed gauge, the actual units are not particularly important. Use either knots or mph, but not both. FWIW. Tom Craig-Stearman tcraigst(at)ionet.net RV-4 64ST mounting oil cooler > >Ok. I gotta jump in. >America also means choices. If you find yourself converting Kts to Miles >all the time, here's your chance to pick what's convenient for yourself. >Why not get one of those having both scales? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Subject: Re: Mph vs. Kts?
IMHO: My airspeed indicator has both and I like it just fine, no problem. Go ahead and get one if you want to. (It also has a true A/S scale). Walt. RV-6A N79WH (92hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Look in Bag 915-2. It should have the botls in it. I just did this and found that the self locking all-metal nuts both cracked through when I tightened them, so I used course thread nylocks instead. Anyone who has used the metal nuts might want to check them out. I also had to use two washers (cut on the side) to fit. Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA From: James K. Hurd <hurd(at)riolink.com> Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 6:26 PM Subject: RV-List: 6A Main Axle Question > >I have a 1998 kit and would appreciate answers to the following: > >1) Axle has 5/16 hole thru both it and the U403 Brake Mounting flange. >This hole is so close to the vertical part of the flange that neither >the bolt head nor the nut can be turned. Interestingly I received no >AN-5 bolts of the proper size to fit the hole. Van's instructions >allude to "...the allen head screw that secures it." (U403) Well, the >only 5/16 allen head screws I received are much too short to go thru the >axle and the hole isn't threaded anyway. What am I missing here? > >2) I have gone thru the plans, preview plans, sketches and photos and >find only those two tiny views of the main axles (plan #49) and these do >not specify the bolt in question. Have I missed some critical data? > >This is gettin' kind of frustrating... > >Jim RV6A New Mexico canopy done > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Excellent answer. Remember EGTs are relative and to compensate for not knowing which is the leanest you want to run 25 degrees rich of max temp. From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 7:00 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: EGT LEAN CYL? > >> >>Would someone with an 0-360 and CHT/EGT gauges on all 4 cyl. tell which >>cylinder runs the leanest? I am installing a single-cyl egt and am trying >>to determine which cylinder to monitor. > >You don't know ahead of time. My leanest cylinder depends on throttle >position, altitude, and RPM. My experience with different engines is that >it varies from engine to engine. It even changed when I added a carb >throat temp probe. It is for this reason that you probably want EGT on all >your cylinders, at least at first. After awhile you will learn the >patterns of EGT for your particular engine. > > >Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies >brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 >http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: wig-wag flashers and lights
>I just installed a module to alternately flash my landing lights. I used >a solid state unit for emergency vehicles that flashes 1.9/second. >Installation was easy and comments from ATC, other aircraft and people >on the ground has been very favourable. >Terry Jantzi I'll second Terry's comments. I feel that flying with the landing lights in flash mode is a real boon to safety. The flashing landing lights are much more visible to me in the daytime than strobes. I fly with both on, all of the time. You never know when you might come across another airplane out here in Wyoming:) I regard to the comments on bulb life in a later post, I have done a bit of testing on this. Before I installed the flasher unit, I flew with the GE 4509 aircraft bulbs on all of the time. I was only getting 10 hours before they burned out. I installed a flasher unit that I bought from Bob Nuckolls (might check Bob's web page to see if he lists them) and continued with the 4509's for awhile. I didn't notice any lengthing of service life. I got fed up with the 4509's and re-did the tip light installation. I bought 3 1/2 inch diameter, halogen off road driving lights from J.C. Whitney, 312-434-6102. The part no. is 12KT6306A. These cost about $4.00 each without the H3 halogen bulb. You can buy a 130 watt H3 bulb from them for $8.00. The lens and reflector are one piece and are light weight plastic. Two of these units with bulbs probably weigh about the same as one, bare 4509 bulb. I can't tell you what the service life is on these units. I have over 275-300 hrs on the original bulbs and have yet to replace one. I made my own wing tip installation. A poor man's RMD, I guess. It was a lot of work but I only paid 40.00 for the lenses. If I had it to do over again, I'd use these 3 1/2" diameter, round lenses in the leading edge of the wing. I think it would be a lighter, simpler installation. Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Halon - AC 20-42C (this is long)
Let me apologize in advance for the long post. Just want to set the record straight on Halon and point everyone to where they can get more information. I hope that this ends the thread. AC No: 20-42C HAND FIRE EXTINGUISHERS FOR USE IN AIRCRAFT Can be downloaded from the AOPA web site. http://www.aopa.org/members/files/ac/ac20-42c.txt The following is taken from that AC. The original Advisory Circulator is 9 pages long. I have taken the liberty of editing. BTW: The 1211/1301 extinguisher that I have in "My Sanity" is of the 14 oz. Size. DEFINITIONS. a. Halon. A short derivation for "halogenated hydrocarbon" whose chemical structure is identified as a four digit number representing, respectively, the number of carbon, fluorine, chlorine, and bromine atom present in one molecule. Halon fire extinguishing agents approved for use include Halon 1211, Halon 1301, and a combination of the two (Halon 1211/1301). Both are liquified gases and typified as "clean agents," leaving no agent residue after discharge. Halons extinguish fire by chemically interrupting the combustion chain reaction rather than by physically smothering. b. Halon 1211. The chemical name is bromochlorodifluoromethane, CBrC1F2. Halon 1211 is a against flammable liquid (-4 deg C/+25 Deg F), Halon 1211 long agent throw range. c. Halon 1301. The Halon 1301 is recognized multipurpose, Class A, B, C rated agent effective fires. Due to its relatively high boiling point discharges as an 85 percent liquid stream offering chemical name is bromotrifluoromethane, CBrF3. as an agent having Class A, B, C capability in total flooding system; however, Halon 1301 offers limited Class A capability when used in portable fire extinguishers. 7. DISCUSSION d. Halogenated Agents. For hand fire extinguishers employing halogenated agents, only Halon 1211, 1301, or mixtures of the two should be used. e. Halon 1211 Extinguishers. extinguishers should not be less than 2 1/2 pounds (1.2 kg) capacity. These extinguishers should have a minimum 5B:C ratings not less than 8 seconds effective discharge time; not less than a 10-foot (3 m) range; and may be equipped with a discharge hose. maximum certificated occupant capacity of one to four persons, including the pilot, a Halon 1211 extinguisher may be used as an option in place of the recommended Halon 1301 extinguisher. (4) If Halon 1211 extinguishers are installed in a nonventilated, passenger occupied compartment, and the compartment cannot be vented, and the occupants cannot leave if the extinguishers art-, discharged, then the total Halon 1211 agent available from all the extinguishers should not be capable of producing a concentration greater than 2 percent by volume at 120 Deg F (49 Deg C) in the compartment. For compartments where egress is possible within one minute, the maximum design concentration can be 4 percent by volume. For ventilated compartments the guidelines in paragraph 8f(5) of this AC can be used. (5) Halon 1211 extinguishers have their greatest effectiveness on Class B and C fires. Extinguishers with 9 pounds (4 kg) or greater capacity are also rated for Class A fires. Extinguishers with a capacity of less than 9 pounds (4 kg), although not rated for use on Class A fires, have been shown to be effective in extinguishing surface Class A fires. Detailed information on Halon 1211 agent characteristics, concentration requirements, health hazards, and extinguishing limitations may he found in NFPA Standard 12B, Halon 1211 Fire Extinguishing System. f. Halon 1301 Extinguishers. extinguishers should have a minimum 2B:C rating, and should have an effective discharge time of not less than 8 seconds. (2) If Halon 1301 extinguishers are installed in a nonventilated, passenger-occupied compartment, and the compartment cannot he vented, and the occupants cannot leave if the extinguishers are discharged, then the total Halon 1301 agent available from all the extinguishers should not be capable of producing a concentration greater than 5 percent by volume at 120 Deg F (49 Deg C) in the compartment. For compartments where, egress is possible within one minute, the maximum design concentration can be 10 percent by volume. For ventilated compartments the guidelines in paragraph 8f(5) of this AC can he used. state (undecomposed) halon concentrations will be approaching allowable limits, Halon 1301 is the halogenated agent of choice for the following reasons: (a) Both Halon 1211 and Halon 1301 decompose when exposed to flame producing toxic products of decomposition. Halon 1211 produces some decomposition products which are not produced by Halon 1301 and is, therefore, also considered more toxic in the decomposed state. 8. GENERAL INFORMATION. e. Advantages of using Halogenated Agent Extinguishers. (1) Halon 1211, Halon 1301, or 1211/1301 is similar to CO2 in that it is suitable for use in cold weather and leaves no residue. (2) Halon 1211, Halon 1301, or 1211/1301 is three times as effective as a CO2 extinguisher having equal weight of agent. (3) Halon 1211 is a liquefied gas which leaves the nozzle in a stream that is about 85 percent liquid and 15 percent gas. This gives the agent a range of 9-to-15 feet and offers significant advantages in fighting fires in large aircraft cabins. Halon 1301 is gaseous upon discharge and has a more limited throw range. Mixtures of Halon 1211 and Halon 1301 have discharge characteristics dependent on the component weight ratio. (4) Because it is a gas, at normal temperatures, Halon 1211, Halon 1301, or 1211/1301 leaves no chemical residue behind to contaminate or corrode aircraft parts or surfaces. (5) Other advantages of Halon 1211, Halon 1301, or 1211/1301 are lower cold shock characteristics on electronic equipment, no degradation of visual acuity, and lower pressure. f. Precautions. (1) Dry chemical extinguishing agents when discharged in crew compartments or confined areas my cause serious impairment to visibility. In addition, they may cause temporary breathing difficulty during and immediately after discharge. (2) Tests indicate that human exposure to high levels of Halon vapors may result in dizziness, impaired coordination, and reduced mental sharpness. Exposure to natural agents is generally of less concern than is exposure to the decomposition products. Exposure to undecomposed halogenated agents may produce varied central nervous system effects depending upon exposure concentration and time. Halogenated agents will also decompose into more toxic products when subjected to flame or hot surfaces at approximately 900 Deg F (482 Deg C). However, unnecessary exposure of personnel to either the natural agent or to the decomposition products should he avoided. The decomposition products of the Halon have a characteristic sharp, acrid odor, and an eye irritating effect, even in concentrations of only a few parts per million. Generally, decomposition products from the fire itself, especially carbon monoxide, smoke, heat, and oxygen depletion, create a greater hazard than the thermal decomposition products of Halon. See NFPA Standard 12A, Halon 1301 Fire Extinguishing System, and NFPA Standard 12B, Halon 1211 Fire Extinguishing System, for more detailed information. Never discharge Halon 1211 on Class D (burning metal) fires. (3) Under nonventilated conditions, Underwriters' Laboratories, Inc., recommends that the maximum Concentration of Halon 1211 not exceed 2 percent in an enclosure, and the maximum concentration of Halon 1301 not exceed 5 percent. For sea-level altitude and a temperature of 120 Deg F (48.9 Deg C), the, compartment volume in cubic feet that will result in these concentrations, for a given weight of agent, is found by multiplying the agent charge weight in pounds by 124.7 in the case of Halon 1211, and by 52.6 in the case Of 1301. (4) Carbon dioxide extinguishes fire by reducing the concentration of oxygen and/or the gaseous phase of the fuel in the air to the point where combustion stops. Carbon dioxide will not -support life when used in Sufficient concentration to extinguish a fire, and it should not be used in habitated, nonventilated aircraft compartments. Due to oxygen deficiency, prolonged occupancy can produce unconsciousness and death at higher concentrations. A concentration of 9 percent is about all most persons can withstand without losing consciousness within a few minutes. At concentrations above 9 percent, occupants would quickly lose consciousness. At concentrations of about 20 percent, death would follow in about 20-to-30 minutes, unless the victim was removed to a source of fresh air. (Ref. NFPA Standard 12, Appendix A). Carbon dioxide must be at a 34 percent concentration to effectively extinguish a gasoline fire. == Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell Flying in So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: Doug Shenk <dshenk(at)ruralhealth.org>
Subject: ?any western colorado builders
Just starting a 6A empennage kit and am looking to meet any RV builders in or around the Grand Junction area. Please reply off list. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
<< 1) Axle has 5/16 hole thru both it and the U403 Brake Mounting flange. This hole is so close to the vertical part of the flange that neither the bolt head nor the nut can be turned. Interestingly I received no AN-5 bolts of the proper size to fit the hole. Van's instructions allude to "...the allen head screw that secures it." (U403) Well, the only 5/16 allen head screws I received are much too short to go thru the axle and the hole isn't threaded anyway. What am I missing here? >> The hex socket head shoulder screws used in my kit have a 5/16" shank and 1/4-20 thread. The shank is just long enough to extend thru the brake mounting flange. You're right that a standard AN5 bolt won't fit. All of this is specified on DWG#45. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Subject: PLEASE READ - System Upgrades / Fund Raiser...
[ Please read this whole message as it contains important information regarding the operation of the RV, Zenith, and Kolb Lists and web sites. ] Dear Listers, As my good friend Al Mojzisik has pointed out to the RV-List this weekend, I've been hard at work upgrading the web server and email server machines that are used predominately to provide services for the Lists. The web server is now running on a brand new 400MHz dual-processor Pentium II Linux system with 512Mb of 100MHz SDRAM, and a 10k RPM Seagate Ultra Wide SCSI hard drive. As an example of this new system's performance, a two-word, ANDed search of the RV-List's 55Mb archive file now take on the order of 2 to 3 seconds! With the dual-processors, two searches can be occurring at once with little or no increase search time. Searches of the Zenith and Kolb List archive files turn in some equally impressive times. The Matronics web server provides service for over 100,000 web hits a month, of which over 95% is directly related to the RV, Zenith, or Kolb Lists. The web server also provides over 3,000 archive searches each month and over 12,000 search match messages are also viewed. This weekend I have also upgraded the old SUN SPARC2 system that provides email support for the RV, Zenith, and Kolb Lists. The new system is based on a 200MHz dual-processor Pentium Pro Linux system with 384Mb of RAM and another 10k RPM Seagate Ultra Wide SCSI hard drive. Some performance tests this weekend have shown the new email system to be over 75 times faster on *one* processor than the old SPARC2 system and affectively 150 times faster running both processors! The new email system is also running its own caching nameserver now which lightens the DNS lookup load on the Internet connection rather substantially. The performance boost in the new email system should decrease the message turn around time on posted List messages. It will also give me the performance breathing room to implement some much needed additional List message filtering and management. Look for more information on this in the coming weeks. I am also working with my ISP to increase the current Internet connection speed from the 384k ADSL to a new 768k SDSL offering that they now have. This additional bandwidth should significantly improve the access to the web server as well as additionally decrease the List message turn around. The bottom line is, however, that I've invested *a lot* of money in all these upgrades that could have, quite frankly, easily gone into my RV-4 project... As Al Mojzisik pointed out this weekend, a Fall Fund Raiser seems in order to support all of the new hardware and upgrades! As in the past, I only ask for contributions when I have invested a significant amount of my own money into the betterment of the Lists and it would seem that I've somewhat out done myself this time! Historically, contribution participation have been on the order of 10% of the List population. Based on the typical contribution levels, we'll need at least a 20% participation level for me to even come close to breaking even on the most recent upgrades. I want to stress now, that the Lists are free and will always be free and I'm not forcing anyone to contribute. I only ask that you donate an amount equal the the value you obtain from your participation in the List. A subscription to the EAA is $35 - is the List worth more to you than 12 issues of Sport Aviation? It certainly is to me; a *lot* more in fact. To make a contribution, you may now use the fully encrypted SSL Contribution Web Page located at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Here, you may use your MasterCard or Visa to make a secure contribution using either 40 or 128 bit encryption depending on your web browser. The complete transaction is fully encrypted and your account information is highly secure. You may also make a contribution by sending a personal check to: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 I want to thank everyone in advance for their generous contributions. I hope that everyone will enjoy the new performance and new features available with the latest upgrades. I will post a summary of the contributing members in a few weeks. Thank you so much for your support! Matt Dralle RV-4 Builder RV, Kolb, and Zenith List Administrator Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: rudder cracks
Date: Oct 26, 1998
> >I notice alot of talk about using rtv to prevent rudder >cracks at the stiffeners in years past. Now that the >stiffener is 3/16 from the trailing edge, is there still a >need for rtv for this purpose? Has anyone out there had >cracks in the newer kits? Any suggestions before I rivet my >rudder together? > > > The best suggestion would be to follow the recommendations in the construction manual, and use the RTV as added assurance. Different builders have different experiences as far as this problem goes. A number of different factors are involved. Not the least of which each builder is a different manufacturer with them also acting as the quality control dept. I couple of things that can effect this are the trailing edge being bent closed correctly, and the leading edges being curled properly before riveting them together. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
writes: << I just did this and found that the self locking all-metal nuts both cracked through when I tightened them, so I used course thread nylocks instead. Anyone who has used the metal nuts might want to check them out.>> Les- I always like to use all metal locknuts in all firewall forward applications and other cases that can experience heat buildup (from brakes in this case). Nylocs can sack out after repeated heat soaking and (at least theoretically) lose their lock. I think that is why Van's sent the metal locknuts. Local auto and performance stores carry good all metal locknuts. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
Date: Oct 27, 1998
>1) Axle has 5/16 hole thru both it and the U403 Brake Mounting flange. >This hole is so close to the vertical part of the flange that neither >the bolt head nor the nut can be turned. Interestingly I received no >AN-5 bolts of the proper size to fit the hole. Van's instructions >allude to "...the allen head screw that secures it." (U403) Well, the >only 5/16 allen head screws I received are much too short to go thru >the >axle and the hole isn't threaded anyway. What am I missing here? > The socket (or allen head bolts) that attach the U403 to the gear leg. You must have missed them when you did your parts inventory. They are socket head bolts about 1 1/2" long that use a course thread 1/4" nut. Call Tom at Van's and he should be able to get you fixed up. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List fund raiser Fly-in
How about someone in the Livermore area near Matt plan an RV-List Fly-in. I can come almost any Saturday that the weather is good. I think a $10 donation to the List and seeing all the flying RV's would be fun. If I have to work the day this is planned, I will double my contribution. == Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell Flying in So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Oct 27, 1998
When I posted the question regarding EGT, I was just wanting to know WHICH cylinder those of you who have a single EGT are using. I already know the scientifics of leaning,etc. And I realize that the actual leanest cylinder can vary, but when you have only a single egt probe and gauge, you have to pick one of the four. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > >Excellent answer. Remember EGTs are relative and to compensate for not >knowing which is the leanest you want to run 25 degrees rich of max >temp. > >From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 7:00 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: EGT LEAN CYL? > > >> >>> >>>Would someone with an 0-360 and CHT/EGT gauges on all 4 cyl. tell >which >>>cylinder runs the leanest? I am installing a single-cyl egt and am >trying >>>to determine which cylinder to monitor. >> >>You don't know ahead of time. My leanest cylinder depends on >throttle >>position, altitude, and RPM. My experience with different engines is >that >>it varies from engine to engine. It even changed when I added a carb >>throat temp probe. It is for this reason that you probably want EGT >on all >>your cylinders, at least at first. After awhile you will learn the >>patterns of EGT for your particular engine. >> >> >>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies >>brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite >1 >>http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA >95682 >>+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax > O- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Oct 26, 1998
Subject: Re: displacement of O2
>The reason SCUBA cylinders are required to be shipped depressurised has nothing >to do with pressure rating. The problem is, if shipped as freight and if the >valve is damaged you could have a repeat of the Valujet saga on a more personal >level. High pressure drops produce high heat (through the formation of shock >waves and compressive heating) and given an oxygen enriched atmosphere fires >will result with steels and other metals burning (refer Apollo 1 and 13). Maybe. SCUBA tanks hold compressed AIR not pure compressed oxygen so this is less of a problem. The problem is if you knock the valve off an air tank (any comressed air tank) it becomes a nice little rocket and can land several blocks away, lodged in someones garage wall. Or it can add a nasty little air vent to the side of an aircraft.......... Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Bob Urban <ruok(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Wanted: RV-3
Looking for completed\flying RV-3. Please send particulars to: Robert Urban ruok(at)mindspring.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: George McNutt <GMcNutt(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: 0-360-A1A.....AD 97-15-11?
Hi Ron AD 97-15-11 applies to piston pins installed in Lycoming engines 0-320 thru 0-720 after Dec 15, 1995. Bad P/N is LW14077 code 17328. Transport Canada has this and other AD's on their web site www.tc.gc.ca If your engine was built or overhauled before Dec 15, 1995 you should be OK. George McNutt 6A Finishing wings. Langley, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WBWard(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: PLEASE READ - System Upgrades / Fund Raiser...
In a message dated 10/26/98 11:32:07 Central Standard Time, dralle(at)matronics.com writes: << dralle(at)matronics.com >> Matt How much do you think would be fair? I've been here for a couple of years now, and I have no idea. You tell me. I'll tell my financial advisor, and she'll send you a check. It's that simple. Regards Wendell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WBWard(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Wanted: RV-3
In a message dated 10/27/98 1:30:43 Central Standard Time, ruok(at)mindspring.com writes: << Looking for completed\flying RV-3. >> I think I know where you can get a grand champion class RV-4, but I know of no RV-3s in this area. How much would you be willing to go for that? Regards WBWard(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Rudder Stiffeners
Date: Oct 26, 1998
I did this on both my elevators, and they came out better then my rudder. The rudder has creases from the stiffener ends being too close to the trailing edge radius. The elevators have no such problem. Cut the angle in there, it will make for a better fit. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 Page at: http://members.bellatlantic.net/~moejoe >While measuring for rudder stiffeners, I noted that if using the 3/16ths >distance from the skin trailing edge, there is part of the stiffener that is >way too close to the radius of the skin.(only on the right hand side of the >skin, due to the angle of the skin) >In order to allow some separation, I was comtemplating placing a 15degree >angle at this location, just like on the other side of the stiffener, except ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com>
Subject: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Date: Oct 27, 1998
I suspect I know the answer to this, but is there anyone who _doesn't_ think it's a bad idea to do some or all of my IFR training in a newly acquired RV-6A? My CFII is willing to instruct in any "safe plane", and I can do some work in a club 172 and other in an RV. Basically, I've just started working on my Instrument ticket, and the thought of spending 40 hours renting a 172 (at $84/hr), when I'm planning on getting an RV soon anyway, just seems to grate on my nerves :-) FYI, this is what I'm looking for: ** Needs ** RV-6A Metal prop (occasional encounters with rain here in soggy Seattle) Minimalist IFR panel Approval for IFR use ** Wants ** CS prop "Tall Pilot Mods" (I'm 6'5") autopilot White/Blue paint (co-pilot request :-) everything :-) ________________________________________________________________________________ the CS and AP might add roughly $10K to that. I have about 100 hours in 172s, and feel like I'm learning fairly quickly. Most of my time is cross country to various airstrips in western Washington (I've visited all but 5 of the 60 or so public-welcome strips nearby, including a half dozen grass strips in the mountains.) But (obviously) 100 hours isn't 500, nor is it 5,000. Answering my own question above, I've heard that IMC flying without autopilot in an RV is an invitation to go inverted. That sounds bad. So my question is, is this guaranteed to be a bad idea, or just probably a bad idea :-) Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
Date: Oct 27, 1998
I was thinking of going with the self-sealing screw method. Check them out at http://www.longlok.com/top.htm They sent me a sample of a number 8 stainless steel screw with Viton O-Ring in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful piece of hardware but they will not sell to individuals. You will need a dealer to purchase them for you. If you find a dealer I would be interested in placing an order too. Maybe we could get better pricing if we ordered together. Let me know. Mark McGee RV4 Wings > I understand special screws can be obtained with the heads sealed by >O-rings>Bill Boyd >RV-6A 40 hrs > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming Overhaul Video
Date: Oct 27, 1998
I just overhauled my Colt's O-235. It caused a slight delay in my RV4 project but now I know I will overhaul when it comes time to put an engine in my RV, as it was easy to do. In addition to the suggestions made by Brian, I purchased a set of Lycoming service publications. These fill in the blanks left by the overhaul manual. Call Lycoming to get them. The hardest part of the engine overhaul was masking the cases for painting. Mark McGee RV4 Wings > >> >>A while back there was a discussion about engine overhaul videos. I >>remembered that George said he would be going ahead with one for an >>engine for the 8 project. > >Well, I didn't use a video. I purchased the Lycoming overhaul manual and >parts list so I could overhaul my O-320-D2J. If you have worked on engines >before everything is very straightforward. My 15-year-old son and I did >all the work and the darn thing even runs and hasn't quit. :^) > >I found the parts list to be a lot more useful than the overhaul manual >when it came to the actual reassembly process but the overhaul manual gives >you all the background you need to know why you are doing things. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
Date: Oct 27, 1998
>Look in Bag 915-2. It should have the botls in it. I just did this and >found that the self locking all-metal nuts both cracked through >when I tightened them, so I used course thread nylocks instead. >Anyone who has used the metal nuts might want to check them >out. I also had to use two washers (cut on the side) to fit. Hmm. Les, I found your comments above very interesting. Mine also cracked and were replaced by nuts purchased at True Value. What bothers me is this may be a problem that's been around for a while and still isn't fixed. Maybe not. I must admit that mine were pretty obvious when they cracked. I felt the nut give when it did it. I immediately backed them off and found they had broken in three places! Seems to me that the kits need to get the AN365 coarse thread nuts if that's what they suggest to buy anyway. I've not had any problems with those nuts. On the other hand, I haven't had any problems with the AN363s purchased elsewhere. I'm betting three are some gear legs out there that have those bad ones on them. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Still hanging engine and firewall parts.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: EGT LEAN CYL?
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Von, I have four EGT probes on N925RV. I've always found #3 to run the leanest WHEN the throttle isn't all the way in. At full throttle, #2 runs the leanest..... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > From: n41va(at)juno.com [SMTP:n41va(at)juno.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 12:43 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: EGT LEAN CYL? > > > When I posted the question regarding EGT, I was just wanting to know > WHICH cylinder those of you who have a single EGT are using. I already > know the scientifics of leaning,etc. And I realize that the actual > leanest cylinder can vary, but when you have only a single egt probe and > gauge, you have to pick one of the four. > Von Alexander > RV-8 N41VA > N41VA(at)juno.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
> > When I posted the question regarding EGT, I was just wanting to know > WHICH cylinder those of you who have a single EGT are using. I already > know the scientifics of leaning,etc. And I realize that the actual > leanest cylinder can vary, but when you have only a single egt probe and > gauge, you have to pick one of the four. > Von Alexander > RV-8 N41VA > N41VA(at)juno.com > writes: > > > >Excellent answer. Remember EGTs are relative and to compensate for not > >knowing which is the leanest you want to run 25 degrees rich of max > >temp. > > > >From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 7:00 PM > >Subject: Re: RV-List: EGT LEAN CYL? > > > > > >> > >>You don't know ahead of time. My leanest cylinder depends on > >throttle > >>position, altitude, and RPM. My experience with different engines is > >that > >>it varies from engine to engine. Von: I have everything instrumented. I get different readings depending on altitude, air speed, prop and throttle position. The way I fly, # 3 tends to run the hottest (leanest) most of the time. # 3 and # 4 are my two leanest. I have a cheap rotary switch installed to switch between the probes and a single channel EGT meter. This allows the cheap single meter to read anything one at a time. == Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell Flying in So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Halon?
From: lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald)
Date: Oct 27, 1998
On Sun, 25 Oct 1998 Rob Rimbold writes: I had a friend in Texas. He sat in his airplane with canopy closed and It KILLED him, >displaced all of the air. Why didn't he just open the canopy? >Asphyxiation >doesn't happen immediately. Is halon toxic by itself? Listers, This is an interesting thread and I'd like to contribute. While " Asphyxiation doesn't happen immediately " is true, it kind of gets in the way of understanding. Over the past twenty eight years, at least twice, men have lost thier lives by climbing into tanks that had, by some means, filled with an inert gas, usually nitrogen. These men would not have entered the tanks if they thought there was danger within. Once inside they continued to breath just as you and I are doing now. Their oxygen was cut off but they didn't know it. It seems that when someone finds out that their body isn't functioning properly, it's too late. Asphyxiation may not happen immediately, but some things happen too fast. Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Smioking Rivets on wing
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Dear Listers: Have discovered I have smoking rivets on first 10-15 3/32nd rivets attaching upper wing skin to rear spar just outboard of rear spar attach bracket on my RV-6. The rivets go through the .032 wing skin and the underlying doubler for the wing walk. This is happening on both wings. I checked two other RV-6's in area and found the same problem developing. The holes for these rivets were countersunk through the .032 skin and it appears the, in some cases, the countersinking was too deep and in other instances the rivets to the rear spar flange were not driven enough. There's no apparent movement in the rear spar attach bracket and bolt on my aircraft. The rivets aren't loose but they have been "working." Question is, what to do? Countersinking with .032 skin is marginal so just re-riveting doesn't appear to be good option. Suspect I will have to replace the rivets with 3/32nd or 1/8th brazier head rivets. I note that the same problem is developing on the horizontal stabilizer rear spar/wing skin rivets. Anyone have any ideas? Has anyone else encountered this? Thanks, Bill Knight ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
While #3 is my hottest, # 2 or #4 tend to peek first (depending on throttle setting) therefore making them the leanest. Nothing beets a good 8 channel (EGT and CHT for each cylinder) engine probe. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: YOUR BIG CHANCE!
Come on you guys, this is your big chance! Big chance for what you say? WELL IT'S YOUR BIG CHANCE TO POST SOMETHING TO THE RV-LIST THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RV'S AND NOT GET FLAMED FOR IT !!!!!!! What am I talking about his time? I'm talking about your contribution to the RV list. TOOT your own horn! Let other listers know that you made that contribution. Let them know that people ARE doing something to make this information medium work. If we can just get everyone to contribute their fair share for what they are getting in entertainment value alone, then Matt can buy food again let alone resume work on his RV-4! Come on you guys, I hope your reading this with a Smile by now. Life is good, We all love RV's and this little cyber community we have here is a big part of it! Let's do our part to help it keep going. Please contribute something today! You guys who have already made contributions let us know how easy it was......you don't have to give amounts, just let us know that someone IS paying for all this fine entertainment and technical knowledge. And for those of you who want to spray me with a HALON extinguisher, at least you now know which one has the greatest range! NOW tell me you don't get anything off this list! You all can go look at yourselves in the mirror now........Al Credit Card contributions can be made at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Or send a check to: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
I've had a problem with my engine that happens from time to time. At full throttle and high RPM (2600 and above) my engine "shutters" for a split second. It feels like its been hit by a bullet. This only happens in cruise, not on take-off. I've been on trips where the engine runs great for two plus hours, shutters a few times, and then continues to run fine. Although now when it happens I back off the throttle (by as little as 25 rpm) and the problem goes away. Its very intermittent and unpredictable. I'm also sure that it is not a good thing! My theories include: 1) Pre-ignition (I have a Jeff Rose electronic ignition), 2) Valve float or a sticky valve caused by lead in the valve guide, 3) Lead being burned off the plugs, causing pre-ignition. Has anybody ever experienced this problem? Even more importantly, has anybody ever experienced this problem and solved it! Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Rudder Stiffeners
>>While measuring for rudder stiffeners, I noted that if using the 3/16ths >>distance from the skin trailing edge, there is part of the stiffener that >is >>way too close to the radius of the skin.(only on the right hand side of the >>skin, due to the angle of the skin) >>In order to allow some separation, I was comtemplating placing a 15degree >>angle at this location, just like on the other side of the stiffener, >except The last set of elevators and rudder that I built, I moved the start of the taper forward from the trailing edge. In other words, there was a little "flap" of the angle that went into the trailing edge of about 3/4 to one inch and then the taper starts. I put a small dab of RTV under this flap. I probably placed the first hole forward of the trailing edge a bit farther forward than the plans. I don't have any idea how this would work on pre-punched kits as all kits I've worked on have been non-pre-punched. Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: fuel tank leaks
>This has worked before and it might be worth a try. Good Luck. >Ralph Koger RV-6A Welcome to the list, Ralph. At least I think you're new to the list. I don't remember seeing any posts from you. Listers. Just so you know, Ralph has one of the nicest RV's I've seen, a 6A with one of the best fitting sliders I've seen and, if I remember correctly, he's built a couple of RVs. He's part of the Boone, Iowa group. Boone has a great RV fly-in every year. Great food, fun and fellowship and a lot of RV knowledge. Anyway, just a note to let listers know that if Ralph posts to the list, he's not blowing smoke. Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
> Removal of the root fairing confirmed my suspicions: gas > is seeping out from under the heads of five screws that hold the inspection > plate on. Bill, Before I put my tanks on, I put some fuel in 'em and sloshed it around to do a final leak test. Both tank inspection lids leaked around the screws. I had made up my own rubberized cork gaskets. A fine gentleman on the list (I can't remember who it was now) sold me a film canister of Fuel Lube for $5. I put a thin film of it on both sides of the gaskets and smeared a little dab of it onto the screws for the lids and the sending units. No more leaks! I've been flying since May, with 80 hours and no leaks. I wouldn't use pro-seal, and here's why, eventually you might have to remove a sending unit, using pro-seal wouldn't make it impossible, but why make things harder than they need to be? For I discovered when I wired up my fuel gauges that I had made both fuel sender installations identical. That is, one showed empty, and one showed full with no fuel on board. Rats! Well, I won't bore you with the details of the subsequent modification that followed. I've still got half of a film canister left, and if no one else can spare some, let me know and I'll send you what I've got. It should be more than enough to fix your problems. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV Broken Arrow, Ok MLaboyteau(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
I have had that problem in, of all things, an ercoupe....It drove me nuts until i found it was WATER entrapped in a "low" spot in the system, and air turblence "shook" it up enough to loosen a few drops....for what it's worth...I hope you find the problem....jolly RV6junkie(at)aol.com wrote: > > I've had a problem with my engine that happens from time to time. At full > throttle and high RPM (2600 and above) my engine "shutters" for a split > second. It feels like its been hit by a bullet. This only happens in cruise, > not on take-off. I've been on trips where the engine runs great for two plus > hours, shutters a few times, and then continues to run fine. Although now > when it happens I back off the throttle (by as little as 25 rpm) and the > problem goes away. Its very intermittent and unpredictable. I'm also sure > that it is not a good thing! > > My theories include: > > 1) Pre-ignition (I have a Jeff Rose electronic ignition), > 2) Valve float or a sticky valve caused by lead in the valve guide, > 3) Lead being burned off the plugs, causing pre-ignition. > > Has anybody ever experienced this problem? Even more importantly, has anybody > ever experienced this problem and solved it! > > Gary Corde > RV-6 N211GC - NJ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Smioking Rivets on wing
<< Suspect I will have to replace the rivets with 3/32nd or 1/8th brazier head rivets. I note that the same problem is developing on the horizontal stabilizer rear spar/wing skin rivets. >> You can use the NAS1097 (OOPS!) rivets to repair this. Most likely, the 1/8" rivets will grip a bit stronger. Don't worry about the machine c/s aspect. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com>
Subject: Re: Mph vs. Kts?
Date: Oct 27, 1998
> >IMHO: My airspeed indicator has both and I like it just fine, no problem. Go >ahead and get one if you want to. (It also has a true A/S scale). > >Walt. RV-6A N79WH (92hrs) I agree. All the airplanes I have flown have had two scales (except the gliders), in all of them I *only* used the outer scale for that particular aircraft's "numbers" (easy to do no matter how "busy" the a/s may look, simply use the set of numbers next to the color range markings). This made transitioning between a/c easier, and I think safer. The inner scale is handy for quick, easy conversion if needed (like on a/s indicators with mph on the outer scale and ATC wanting everything in knots ). Rob Acker (RV-6Q, degree finally finished in December, and then back to building!). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Water wagon
Another Water wagon has taken to the skies, Dean Berry of the PHX area has flown his RV 6 with a Chevy V-6 which today is not too unusual but the fact that it is the second plans built 6 , only one in the states in 4 and 1/2 years makes it special. He reported the first flights as a lot of fun. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RotaVR(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
<< At full throttle and high RPM (2600 and above) my engine "shutters" for a split second. >> Gary, I assume you meant "shudders" as in running rough, shaking momentarily, etc. I don't have a definitve answer to your rough running, but some suggestions as to possible causes: Is your fuel clean? No water, or fuel tank slosh contaminants? Checked your plug wire cigarettes for oil contamination? (can leak from valve covers, wick down plug wire and pool in cigarette area) Possible cracked plug insulator, or mag housing ? broken valve spring ? After inspecting the above systems, components, believe I would start with cleaning plugs, then replacing plugs if cleaning didn't help. Good Luck, Steve Schmitz. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 1998
From: "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Don Corbitt wrote: > > I suspect I know the answer to this, but is there anyone who _doesn't_ think > it's a bad idea to do some or all of my IFR training in a newly acquired > RV-6A? My CFII is willing to instruct in any "safe plane", and I can do > some work in a club 172 and other in an RV. > > FYI, this is what I'm looking for: > > ** Needs ** > RV-6A > Metal prop (occasional encounters with rain here in soggy Seattle) > Minimalist IFR panel > Approval for IFR use > > ** Wants ** > CS prop > "Tall Pilot Mods" (I'm 6'5") > autopilot > White/Blue paint (co-pilot request :-) > everything :-) > Answering my own question above, I've heard that IMC flying without > autopilot in an RV is an invitation to go inverted. That sounds bad. So my > question is, is this guaranteed to be a bad idea, or just probably a bad > idea :-) Hi Don, I just completed my instrument training in April '97. I have about 200 approaches now and about 110 hours of instrument time, almost all of which is in Piper Archers and Warriors. On the other hand, I have only about 21 hours in an RV-6A, the airplane of an acquaintance. Of those 21 hours, I have only about 10 minutes of actual instrument time. Please judge my comments accordingly. Flying in IMC is no more an invitation to go inverted than it is any other time, IMO. Turbulence makes a busy environment all the more challenging, obviously, but I don;t think it's a lot different from turbulence in VMC. Others may not agree. During my instrument training, I would not have been allowed to fly approaches on autopilot. My guess is that your instructor will not allow it either; I hope not, anyway. I think having an autopilot during instrument training would serve only to acquaint one with its use; it would not help you through the training. Moreover, YOU DO NOT WANT TO BECOME DEPENDENT ON AN AUTOPILOT FOR MAKING INSTRUMENT APPROACHES. Using an RV-6A as an instrument training platform seems like a good idea to me. In my limited RV-6A experience, I found the RV-6A very little different from the Pipers from an instrument flight perspective, and I wouldn't hesitate to fly an instrument approach in an RV-6A; in fact, my own RV-6A panel is heavily loaded with IFR goodies. The one drawback to flying an approach in a stick-equipped airplane is that you lose the control yoke as a place to put an approach plate, and you can't very well fly with a two-page size kneeboard because there's no room for it between you and the stick. As a result, it's more difficult to get and stay organized in the intense, single-pilot IFR environment. I will probably wind up using two smaller kneeboards, one for note-taking, and one for area or low altitude chart or approach plate. It's going to take some careful management in an environment that is constantly busy, especially in turbulence. A flight suit with pockets in the lower legs would probably be helpful. So would a "glove compartment," but I don't have room for one. I say go for it. It seems likely to force you into better cockpit organization, and that can't be anything but beneficial. But forget about the autopilot until much later. You'll no doubt, . . . no doubt, get a lot more advice about this from others on the list with far more IFR experience than I. Good luck and best wishes, Jack Abell Los Angeles RV-6A N333JA (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Yes, belt alignment is important. The washer idea is a good one. Ensure adequate thread is exposed for nut. It's a good idea to thoroughly clean thread and nut and use a drop (stress "drop"!) of red lock tight on thread after you are satisfied with alignment. Install nut with a pneumatic impact driver (air wrench) to pound tight. I used to install auto A/C units in AZ. Six years of experience so I have seen what works and breaks. Caution! Do not over tighten belt. The Alt. bearing can't take much. Should be just slug to the point where you can't turn the Alt. pulley by hand. Check this periodically as belt stretches and wears. JMWilson RV-4 hopefully to fly early spring 99. Later From: Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO [mailto:lewisth(at)pentagon.af.mil] Sent: Monday, October 26, 1998 9:27 AM Subject: Listers; My 0-360-A1A Flywheel and Alternator pulleys are about 3/16" out of alignment. Is this a problem? It seems to me like this would result in excess wear on the belt. How would I adjust this? I dont see any adjustment fore and aft on the alternator. The only thing I can figure is to take the pulley off of the alternator and put a couple of thick washers behind the pulley to bring it out. Any ideas? I mounted an auto alternator (modified for external voltage regulator, see http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a ) using Van's mounting bracket kit. I had to extend the bolt slots in the mounting bracket so the bracket would hold the alternator such that it was aligned with the flywheel. My IA/Tech Counselor stressed the importance of alternator/flywheel alignment to minimize belt wear. Tim Lewis RV-6AQ Engine tested, finished spinner this weekend (not hard) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Carb Ice, sticky point pivots in mags???? From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com <RV6junkie(at)aol.com> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 10:15 AM Subject: RV-List: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat > >I've had a problem with my engine that happens from time to time. At full >throttle and high RPM (2600 and above) my engine "shutters" for a split >second. It feels like its been hit by a bullet. This only happens in cruise, >not on take-off. I've been on trips where the engine runs great for two plus >hours, shutters a few times, and then continues to run fine. Although now >when it happens I back off the throttle (by as little as 25 rpm) and the >problem goes away. Its very intermittent and unpredictable. I'm also sure >that it is not a good thing! > >My theories include: > >1) Pre-ignition (I have a Jeff Rose electronic ignition), >2) Valve float or a sticky valve caused by lead in the valve guide, >3) Lead being burned off the plugs, causing pre-ignition. > >Has anybody ever experienced this problem? Even more importantly, has anybody >ever experienced this problem and solved it! > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC - NJ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L.R. BENTLY" <lloydb(at)intekom.co.za>
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Good day listers . Anyone perhaps tried using a fiber washer under each screw head. Lloyd RSA RV6 wingrib fluting . > From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks > Date: Tuesday, 27 October, 1998 05:33 > > > > > Removal of the root fairing confirmed my suspicions: gas > > is seeping out from under the heads of five screws that hold the inspection > > plate on. > > Bill, > Before I put my tanks on, I put some fuel in 'em and sloshed it around to do > a final leak test. Both tank inspection lids leaked around the screws. I had > made up my own rubberized cork gaskets. A fine gentleman on the list (I can't > remember who it was now) sold me a film canister of Fuel Lube for $5. I put a > thin film of it on both sides of the gaskets and smeared a little dab of it > onto the screws for the lids and the sending units. No more leaks! I've been > flying since May, with 80 hours and no leaks. I wouldn't use pro-seal, and > here's why, eventually you might have to remove a sending unit, using pro-seal > wouldn't make it impossible, but why make things harder than they need to be? > For I discovered when I wired up my fuel gauges that I had made both fuel > sender installations identical. That is, one showed empty, and one showed full > with no fuel on board. Rats! Well, I won't bore you with the details of the > subsequent modification that followed. I've still got half of a film canister > left, and if no one else can spare some, let me know and I'll send you what > I've got. It should be more than enough to fix your problems. > > Mark LaBoyteaux > RV-6A N106RV > Broken Arrow, Ok > MLaboyteau(at)aol.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks)
I've been on this list since almost the beginning, and it's been interesting reading all the posts about fuel tank access covers over the years. There have been numerous posts about better ways to install the covers so they will be easily removable. But there have also been as many or more posts from people who have leaky fuel access covers. Is there a message here? I'm going to take all this information to heart and just proseal the damn things on like Van says. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: Subscription and Unsub... [PLEASE READ]
[ Listers - I receive messages like the one below quite often. Please read both the message and my response regarding the unsubscription process. Thanks - Matt ] >Matt, Hi..... > >I am an RV-list subscriber that has just had his original address shut >down and had to start up a new account with the resulting change of >account and address... I do know the correct way to Sub... and Un-sub... >but figure that as I can't send as or be seen as the old address I will >merely confuse your new system muchly. > >Could I please impose on you to manually unsubscribe my old address of >gratech(at)acslink.aone.net.au (it may be but shouldn't be >gratech(at)acslink.net.au - that one should have died nearly 18 months >ago!). I will subscribe with my new address immediately after this >message is sent. > >Thanking You in anticipation >Graham Jones Hi Graham, No matter what email address you are coming from, you can always subscribe and unsubscribe email addresses from the List. I've already done this for your today, but for example, you could have sent an email message like the one shown below to make sure that you were completely unsubscribed: ============== From: "Graham Jones" <gratech(at)a1.com.au> Subject: unsubscribe gratech(at)acslink.aone.net.au unsubscribe gratech(at)acslink.net.au subscribe ============== This would try to unsubscribe the both of the old addresses and request the your new current email address be subscribed. The only cavat about this is that when the _unsubscribe_ request comes from an email address other than the address being unsubscribed, it must be approved by me and this will usually take less than 24 hours. Best Regards, Matt Dralle Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
Gary: I was going to refer you to rv6junkie for technical help until I realized it was you who wrote the post! As you may recall, I had similar problems in my plane this spring. Drilling out the carb jet fixed most of the wandering rpm problem, and de-installing the Jeff Rose system and replacing it with a second mag fixed the "shot by a bullet" heart- and engine-shuddering problem which sounds the same as yours. Then I discovered a broken center conductor in one of the REM37BY's, so I'm left wondering who was to blame. I hope you can solve this problem without shipping anything back to Chattanooga. Please let us know what you find out. I had my first experience with "automatic rough" overflying the rugged Smoky Mountains near Boone, NC this weekend. What a powerful illusion. I convinced myself the engine was going to vibrate apart or quit and actually diverted to a nearby field for a precautionary landing when a little tweaking of the mixture and throttle (maybe the Sensenich doesn't like 2500 rpm?) got it a tad smoother and I pressed on. In a few minutes I felt better and forgot the whole thing. Looking back it is hard to believe I got so spooked, but then, I've been through an engine failure in a two-stroke experimental before. That forever changes the way you listen to the song of your engine. Good luck. -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
<< When I posted the question regarding EGT, I was just wanting to know WHICH cylinder those of you who have a single EGT are using. >> For my O-320 it is consistently the # 3 cyl that peaks first. I believe that is the most common cyl to peak on that model with a carb. With fuel injection or a throttle body, rumor is they will all tend to peak together from more even fuel distribution. Now I am learning through experience that the absolute peak temp will vary with altitude as well as percent power setting, so unless you always fly the same density altitude and MAP, you can't just lean to, say, 1500*F and count on being 50 degrees rich of peak. Somehow, with all the instrumentation on my engine, I have forgotten the old leaning habits (lean to rough, then enrichen till it smooths back out) and now stare compulsively at my digital EGT display. Leaning should probably be done first by feel, eyes outside the cockpit, with an occasional reference to the gauges to verify optimum setings, right? -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
My engine was doing the exact same thing for a while. It was very intermittant to begin with, then got to where more frequent plug cleaning was necesary. Then it got to where it was hard to tell which plug was misfiring because it was so intermittant. I cleaned the plugs, the points, and checked the wires, and everything was good. Then I took the mags apart farther and found the "rotor" bushing worn out on one. This was causing the rotor to hit some contacts in the cap, and miss others, intermittantly of course. I found the parts to be nearly as expensive to repair the slicks, as it costs to replace them. After installing the new ones, the problem went away. I never payed much attention to the intermittant misses when alone, but when a passenger was with me, all kinds of things would go through my mind, from thoughts of law suits for not fixing a known about problem and hurting someone in a crash, to plain embarrassment at having to do an emergency landing if the engine quit in a "good" place. Piece of mind is worth a whole lot. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com>
Subject: Re: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Date: Oct 27, 1998
If your RV-6a is going to be the aircraft you'll be using to fly IFR/IMC, then by all means, do as much or all of your IFR training in it! To me, half of getting your instrument rating is book work and procedures, and learning how to decifer charts and approach plates. The other half (the hardest one) is learning how to make your aircraft do and perform the the procedures you've learned in a proficient and safe manner. Start with the RV-6a, end with it, and fly it! I can bet it will take you more hours. . . . .but you'll KNOW that aircraft in an IFR/IMC environment! Kudos to your instructor if he's willing to give instruction in your -6a also! Good luck! Instrument flight is very rewarding, but always be safe! Rob Reece, CFII RV-3 SN 45 (finishing spar mod, left wing) Socorro, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Aerodynamics/test-pilot question
Can one of you AE's and/or test pilots out there can tell me how the limits of the yellow arc on the airspeed indicator are derived? Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
> >When I posted the question regarding EGT, I was just wanting to know >WHICH cylinder those of you who have a single EGT are using. I already >know the scientifics of leaning,etc. And I realize that the actual >leanest cylinder can vary, but when you have only a single egt probe and >gauge, you have to pick one of the four. In that case, any cylinder is just as bad as any other. :^) Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
>The way I fly, # 3 >tends to run the hottest (leanest) most of the time. # 3 and # 4 are >my two leanest. Hotest is not necessarily the leanest. First to peak is the leanest. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
In a message dated 10/27/98 12:12:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, RotaVR(at)aol.com writes: << Gary, I assume you meant "shudders" as in running rough, shaking momentarily, etc.>> No, I mean it STOPS for a 1/4 rotation or so. << I don't have a definitve answer to your rough running, but some suggestions as to possible causes: Is your fuel clean?>> Yes. << No water, or fuel tank slosh>> None < contaminants?> None << Checked your plug wire cigarettes for oil contamination? (can leak from valve covers, wick down plug wire and pool in cigarette area)>> Clean << Possible cracked plug insulator, or mag housing ? broken valve spring ?>> I would suspect those if the problem wasn't so intermittent. (Once every 20 hours or so). << After inspecting the above systems, components, believe I would start with cleaning plugs, then replacing plugs if cleaning didn't help. >> I'm going to look at the valves and guides next. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Don, I got my IFR ticket in N925RV. It's not a piper of Cessna when it comes to stability issues, but, with the proper training, you can fly it IFR safely. It does require that you have good cockpit management techniques. Everything you need for a given flight must be close at hand. If you have to get behind the adjacent seat for something, you'll loose your attitude. I've installed a snapped in top over the baggage compartment that can support the weight of the Jepps books if necessary. When the right seat is empty, I use it (with the stick removed) for quick access to charts etc.. When the seat is occupied, and the person is capable of helping out, (another pilot) they do just that: twist radio knobs when instructed to do so (and check on afterwards..). I also use two small knee pads for note taking (right) and approach plates (left). The left side is lighted for night flights, and I usually leave the cockpit lights up bright until the approach phase for better chart readability. While flying IFR in the RV can be done without the aid of a wing lever, I recommend using it for longer trips. That way I'll still be alert (not tired) when making the approach. One note: I can always tell when I'm not up to my own level of dictated currency (way more than the FAA would have you do..) If at any time during the flight I'm jerky at the controls, my own standard says that I need more hood time. Currently, I do a minimum of three approached/month, most of it in actual. I have a Sencenich metal prop and heated pito. Be sure to thoroughly test your alternate carb air source for heat. Use of just lower cowl air is not sufficient and will result in carb ice situations, especially in the colder climates like New England... Been there, done that and wouldn't want anybody else to make that mistake. The reg's say that you need to have a 20*C rise in inlet temps (but don't state under what conditions...) I now have a Robbins heat muff on the exhaust cross over that just about meets that temp rise condition under a cruise condition and have not experienced any carb icing since changing it. Hope that helps.... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > From: Don Corbitt [SMTP:donc(at)analogia.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 3:44 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: IFR training in an RV-6A? > > > I suspect I know the answer to this, but is there anyone who _doesn't_ > think > it's a bad idea to do some or all of my IFR training in a newly acquired > RV-6A? My CFII is willing to instruct in any "safe plane", and I can do > some work in a club 172 and other in an RV. ******* SNIP ****** ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Rod Smith <rsmith(at)alaska.net>
Subject: SCUBA Cylinders/Halon
I wanted to dispel some misinformation presented on the list. I work at a huge natural gas processing plant at Prudhoe Bay, Alaska so I know what I am talking about. Simple physics tells you that when you compress a gas it gets hot, when you decompress a gas it cools. Doesn't matter what kind of gas (air, oxygen, CO2, whatever). Thats why large compressors have intercoolers and aftercoolers. The danger of pressurized vessels in an aircraft is the violence involved in a rapid decompression but it would cause rapid cooling not heating. Our plant has the largest supply of halon 1301 in the world and we buy halon that is decommisioned elsewhere. It is the only known extinguishing agent in the world that not only will put out a fire but prevent a fire or explosion from happening in the first place if used in time. It has probably saved my life on at least one occasion. Our system is engineered for a 7% halon flood (enough to stop an explosion) automatically enabled when a large gas concentration is detected on mutiple detectors. I have personally experienced three halon dumps and have walked out of them with no ill effects. On one of the occasions we had a gas leak so bad that I was getting light headed by the time I got out from lack of oxygen (displaced more by the gas leak than the halon). Our management has tried to find a suitable alternative due to the high cost and political flak of continuing to use it but for our situation (enclosed natural gas plant) there is no alternative. We have told management no halon, no employees. I do agree that discharging a full bottle of halon in a cockpit would displace enough air to suffocate you if you didn't get windows, doors and or vents open right away. Rod Smith RV-8 kit soon, I hope ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Step installation
Date: Oct 27, 1998
If I place the steps so that they fit flush with the web of F-623, the tube will protrude out the bottom skin about an inch and the angle of the step plate will not match the skin. Is the solution just to raise the step high enough to anchor it somewhere on F-625 baggage floor rib? Thanks in advance Brian Eckstein 6A Fuse 747BS reserved ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: RV-8 nose ribs attach
Fellas: I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? It sure looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main ribs are installed. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
RV6junkie(at)aol.com wrote: > << Gary, I assume you meant "shudders" as in running rough, shaking > momentarily, > etc.>> > > No, I mean it STOPS for a 1/4 rotation or so. Gary - Have you replaced the points in the mags lately? I have heard that a weak point spring at higher rpms can cause point bounce which will shut off the cylinders effected until the rpm drops and the points 'catch up' again. Another related symptom in this area is a dry cam/rubbing block which will cause the points to not open and close smoothly and cause the same shut down . Maybe before you get the top end torn down to check the valve train, you ought to take a vacuum test of the induction circuit to check for a fluctuating needle - sticking valves. I would go further if you have the equipment and take a scope test of the engine. My equipment can electronically 'see' the vacuum pulses and differentiate between intake & exhaust valves in a specific cylinder. While the scope is hooked up you also can check the point bounce at the rpm affected. Hope you get back soon to smooth flights. DGM RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com>
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
Jim I'm building an RV-4 and dwg. 38 calls out 5/16-20 X 1 1/2 lg right below the screw callout is specified an 363-420 this is 1/4-20 all metal lock nut, don't know what this is for, I used the the 5/16-20 x 1 1/2 screw and 5/16 self lock nut you can tighten with the socket head screw. Maybe they sent wrong size screws. Hope this helps. Wayne RV-4 Baffffffffling. > > > I have a 1998 kit and would appreciate answers to the following: > > 1) Axle has 5/16 hole thru both it and the U403 Brake Mounting flange. > This hole is so close to the vertical part of the flange that neither > the bolt head nor the nut can be turned. Interestingly I received no > AN-5 bolts of the proper size to fit the hole. Van's instructions > allude to "...the allen head screw that secures it." (U403) Well, the > only 5/16 allen head screws I received are much too short to go thru the > axle and the hole isn't threaded anyway. What am I missing here? > > 2) I have gone thru the plans, preview plans, sketches and photos and > find only those two tiny views of the main axles (plan #49) and these do > not specify the bolt in question. Have I missed some critical data? > > This is gettin' kind of frustrating... > > Jim RV6A New Mexico canopy done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick & Barbara Osgood" <randbosgood(at)sprintmail.com>
Subject: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Hello Listers, Has anyone mastered the secret of how to get the VA-111 fitting into the aileron push tube? Thanks Rick Osgood RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: "Rodney Boyd" <rboyd(at)dcccd.edu>
Subject: Aerodynamics/test-pilot question -Reply
>>> Brian Lloyd 10/27/98 12:52pm >>> ....how the limits of the yellow arc on the airspeed indicator are derived?..... Brian Lloyd Note airspeed. (refer to Instruction 1. above) till wings ARE torn off. Note airspeed. Sorry, Brian. I just couldn't resist. : ) Re-engaging lurk mode. Rod -6A emp Dallas,Tx ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Date: Oct 27, 1998
John and Listers: I am just about to finish up an instrument student in a -6. We have spent the summer working on the rating and he is just approaching 50 hours of instrument dual. I'll probably sign him off to take the check ride this week. It has been a more difficult airplane to master than a slow Cessna, but as previously mentioned, since this is the student's own airplane that he will be flying, it makes sense to get the rating in the -6. The key is to stay organized (clipboards, velcro, stopwatches, charts, etc.... all in their proper place). When maneuvering, slow down... know the appropriate power settings for what you are doing. Obviously an autopilot will be an aid (this -6 is equipped with a NavAid unit) but I don't allow it's use during training. When the air is calm, the -6 flies very stable and smooth. When bumpy you have your hands full. There is an abundance of excess power available so one has to use the power sparingly to maintain good altitude control. Good luck and if you have any questions, write me off the List. Doug Weiler, N722DW, RV-4 under construction Hudson, WI pres, MN Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Don, By all means get your IFR training in an RV. You should obtain your training in the airplane type you intend to use for IFR flight. No particular difficulty attaches to flying RVs in the soup. Mr. Stucklen's comments were right on the mark. Most of my cloud time is in the T-37 whose stability is lower than that of the RVs, whose primary flight instruments are on the far side of the cockpit from me, and whose autopilot is a student intent on getting me violated or killed. The RV is wonderful by comparison. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraigst(at)ionet.net RV-4 64ST mounting remote oil cooler > >I suspect I know the answer to this, but is there anyone who _doesn't_ think >it's a bad idea to do some or all of my IFR training in a newly acquired >RV-6A? My CFII is willing to instruct in any "safe plane", and I can do >some work in a club 172 and other in an RV. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com>
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
James K. Hurd wrote: > > not specify the bolt in question. Have I missed some critical data? > > This is gettin' kind of frustrating... > > Jim RV6A New Mexico canopy done Well this is embarrassing I should have read ahead. I forgot it was a shoulder head cap screw with 1/4 lock nut, this is what I used. I think the baffles are driving me nuts. Wayne RV-4 baffles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
BTW in regards to the axle bolt/nut, Tom Green at Vans told me a while back that the while the funky nut/bolt is provided due to the lack of clearance with the brake flange, it's not a bad idea to check to make to manufacturing differences from one brake flange to the next), you can just use that. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
Date: Oct 27, 1998
>Fellas: > >I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? It sure >looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main ribs are >installed. > >Check six! >Mark Mark, Well, they ARE a major pain to install. If I had to do it over again, I'd have a helper to hold the bucking bar, and get both hands on the gun. I used the offset rivet set so the gun cleared the rib webs. I also used an inspection mirror and flashlight to inspect the shop heads..some of which are far from perfect, but drilling them out would do more harm than good. (read the latest RVator..the article about just how bad a rivet can get and still be sufficiently strong). Brian Denk RV8 #379 fuselage cockpit floor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: Aerodynamics/test-pilot question -Reply
>....how the limits of the yellow arc on the airspeed indicator are derived?..... > >Brian Lloyd > > >Note airspeed. > >(refer to Instruction 1. above) till wings ARE torn off. >Note airspeed. > >Sorry, Brian. I just couldn't resist. : ) >Re-engaging lurk mode. There is at least one banana in every bunch. Thanks. :^) Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Use your Scotch brite wheel to slowly grind the fitting down evenly until is just pushes into the tube with firm pressure. Worked for me. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > > >Hello Listers, > >Has anyone mastered the secret of how to get the VA-111 fitting into >the >aileron push tube? > >Thanks >Rick Osgood >RV6A > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Rick & Barbara Osgood wrote: > Has anyone mastered the secret of how to get the VA-111 fitting into the > aileron push tube? The VA-111??? That's the threaded rod-end thing, right? If so, the answer I found (and just last night added into the Bunny's Guide <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny2d.htm>) is HEAT. Apply the business end of a hair drier to the tube. Maybe also put the VA-111 in the freezer first (I didn't need to). Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com>
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Has anyone ordered the gasket kit for an IO360 from acft spruce $280???any good any comment. RV6A/fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Aerodynamics/test-pilot question
> >Can one of you AE's and/or test pilots out there can tell me how the limits >of the yellow arc on the airspeed indicator are derived? > > >Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies As far as I know, there is no requirement for homebuilt aircraft (at least in the US and Canada) to have a yellow arc on the airspeed indicator. I will respond to Brian privately so as to avoid a long off topic thread. I am sure that he would be happy to forward my response to anyone else who is interested. :-) Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings) khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html Engineering Test Pilot Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
Mark Have you done any mods to the spars TOM wfact01(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
Rick, This an unnecessary pain. I don't know why the fittings couldn't be shipped with the correct dimensions.... I chucked the VA-111's in the drill press and reduced the diameter of the shank with a file. A few minutes of grinding and they fit the way they should have out of the bag. Sam Buchanan (trimming tipup canopy) "The RV Journal http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6 Rick & Barbara Osgood wrote: > > > Hello Listers, > > Has anyone mastered the secret of how to get the VA-111 fitting into the > aileron push tube? > > Thanks > Rick Osgood > RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 27, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: RV-6A Nose Gear Failed Inspection
Listers, To all of those RV-6A pilots out there, take the recent service bulletin VERY seriously. Today I had N506RV's nose gear tested by an aerospace materials testing company and it failed inspection. The crack was right where the service bulletin said to look for it. I am currently packing the nose gear for shipment back to Van's. Some details: - The service bulletin says to polish the gear prior to testing. I did not do this as I was told that the beginning of a crack may be masked by mechanically working the area; the paint was stripped though. The testing company is well respected and I have 100% confidence in their results. As I stated, the testing company is an aerospace materials testing company that tests turbine components daily. - N506RV has 175 hrs on the tach. - The airplane has been operated out of a grass strip and one of the taxiways is a little bouncy. I wouldn't call it rough. The runway is probably the smoothest grass field I have ever flown out of. - One trip early last summer was into a grass field that was awful (Katama, on Martha's Vineyard). Even during taxi, the aircraft was bouncing all over the place. - One student learned to fly (and land) in this airplane. Some of the early landings weren't all that great (sorry Tom), but the gear didn't take the abuse that a typical Cessna will see with a primary student as I intervened on the controls prior to a "simulated carrier landing". - One wheel shimmy was experience. This happened on the way to Oshkosh last Summer. This was corrected by increasing the break out force on the nose gear. I spoke with Tom Green today. I believe that I am the first to have it fail inspection. Tom indicated that when the new gear is installed, I will not have to check it in the future. Regardless, I will be ordering a dye kit from ASS. With the -6A, the nose gear needs to be removed to clean the air filter, so why not check the nose gear also? It really is cheap insurance. I've got $25K invested firewall forward and am so glad to catch this problem now instead of later. That's all I know at this time. I'm trying to be as unbiased in this post as possible. I'll keep the list updated on any new info. Take care. Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying (now grounded) PS: I am sending a copy of this post to van's as Tom Green is the only person I have spoken to at this time. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N13eer(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
In a message dated 10/27/98 4:09:45 PM Central Daylight Time, Mlfred(at)aol.com writes: << I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? It sure looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main ribs are installed. >> Try a double offset with the far side ground flat. Half the fun is making the tools so you can put everything togather. Alan Kritzman RV-8 Fus. watching the primer dry, gotta start pounding soon ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
Mark McGee wrote: > > > I was thinking of going with the self-sealing screw method. Check them out > at http://www.longlok.com/top.htm > > They sent me a sample of a number 8 stainless steel screw with Viton O-Ring > in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful piece of hardware but > they will not sell to individuals. You will need a dealer to purchase them > for you. > > If you find a dealer I would be interested in placing an order too. Maybe > we could get better pricing if we ordered together. > > Let me know. > > Mark McGee > RV4 Wings > > Be advised that these screws are expensive. I spent around $50 for enough screws for both tanks. Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Dave & Melissa Hamilton <hamlton(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
All, I had no problem with my VA-111 fittings, I rubbed a little Boelube on them, put the pushrod in a vise and gently tapped the fitting in with a rubber mallet. Maybe I got lucky with mine, but they went in easily this way. Only took a few seconds each. Dave Hamilton 80001 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICKRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
In a message dated 10/27/98 4:27:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mlfred(at)aol.com writes: << Fellas: I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? It sure looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main ribs are installed. Check six! Mark >> Mark, If you're talking about the 1/8" rivets on the leading edge ribs you'll need to use an offset rivet set and grind the outside down in order to get the set in close enough. You'll also need a second pair of hands to buck. You can borrow a modified set from Tom Chapman down in SA, he has mine. Rick McBride ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Smioking Rivets on wing
Date: Oct 28, 1998
> << Suspect I will have to > replace the rivets with 3/32nd or 1/8th brazier head rivets. > You can use the NAS1097 (OOPS!) rivets to repair this. Most likely, the 1/8" > rivets will grip a bit stronger. Don't worry about the machine c/s aspect. If the countersink is too deep as suggested, changing to NAS1097 OOPS rivets is unlikely to help as the head is the same OD and angle as the present rivets. The brazier head might do the job, or extra rivets between the existing ones. Brian(never countersink if it's possible to dimple) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: I'm Not Getting List Mail Anymore...
Date: Oct 28, 1998
G'day Zak, hows your engine, I saw it last Saturday at Bill's hangar. Thought I'd send you this as I think it was you who said you had stopped getting mail from the list, Brian (skinning Fuselage, front side skins) > > RV-List -> http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/index.html > > and select the link intitled "Hey, I'm Not Getting List Mail Anymore". > This will take you to a new dynamic web page that lists in reverse order > every single email address that has been removed from the List. It also > lists a short description of why the email address was removed, i.e. > user unknown, mailbox full, etc. If you find your address listed with a > recent date stamp, rest assured your address has been removed from the > List. If you are confident that your email is working correctly again, > there are hyperlinks from this new page that allow you to easially > resubscribe. > > It's quick and easy! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Brian Huffaker <huffaker(at)utw.com>
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Sam Buchanan wrote: > > Rick, > > This an unnecessary pain. I don't know why the fittings couldn't be > shipped with the correct dimensions.... > Don't know why everybody else seems to have a problem. After deburring the cut end of the tube, could push it right in. Brian Huffaker, DSWL (huffaker(at)utw.com) President and Founder Friends of P-Chan RV-8 80091 Riviting 2nd wing skel ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: GPS
Listers: I'm in the market for a new, hand-held GPS. I've narrowed the choice down to the Lowrance 100 or the Garmin lll. Would any of you that have experience with either one of these or both mind e-mailing me off-list at bskinr(at)trib.com with your comments? Thanks, Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
Date: Oct 27, 1998
I contacted the company today. They informed me that they would sell them in lot's of 100. I would be glad to join in a group purchase. From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 6:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks Mark McGee wrote: > > > I was thinking of going with the self-sealing screw method. Check them out > at http://www.longlok.com/top.htm > > They sent me a sample of a number 8 stainless steel screw with Viton O-Ring > in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful piece of hardware but > they will not sell to individuals. You will need a dealer to purchase them > for you. > > If you find a dealer I would be interested in placing an order too. Maybe > we could get better pricing if we ordered together. > > Let me know. > > Mark McGee > RV4 Wings > > Be advised that these screws are expensive. I spent around $50 for enough screws for both tanks. Ed Cole RV6A Fuselage + + name="Steven B Janicki.vcf" filename="Steven B Janicki.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Janicki;Steven;B FN:Steven B Janicki ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center TITLE:Sr. Director TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740 TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165 ADR;WORK:;;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA URL:http://www.oracle.com URL:http://www.oracle.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com REV:19981028T034523Z END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
Mark: Have faith. It isn't as hard as we all think it's going to be. Use an off-set rivet set, such as the one that Avery sells. It's a two person operation...one to operate the rivet gun, the other to reach into the bowels of the nose section to buck the rivet. I can reach all but the center rivets through the holes in the end ribs. My wife's dainty hand can fit easily through the lightening hole in the spar to buck the rivets on the center nose rib. As always, pay careful attention to the length of rivets specified on the plans...there are three different sizes called for. I use a mirror (gift of my wife, from her purse) and a small flashlight to check the manufactured head. I spent four hours agonizing about doing it and about 45 minutes actually doing it. George #80006 From: Mlfred(at)aol.com <Mlfred(at)aol.com> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 3:15 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-8 nose ribs attach > >Fellas: > >I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? It sure >looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main ribs are >installed. > >Check six! >Mark > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: nose gear
How is the nose gear on the six different from the main gear on the fours? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: Exhaust Studs
>Just for old time's sake (those good old days with dirty hands, old cars, >brute force, etc., etc.), I tried "double nutting" one and giving it a good >twist. No go. (Also, no damage - ulike the usual case in those good old >days.) > >Getting out of that mode, I have checked the Lycoming overhaul manual. >They say to use a collet - type tool. One of our EAA Chapter Tech >Counselors has a tool that sounds like that, so that's available. > >I have also checked the RV list archives and found a suggestion on heating >the cylinder and a good instruction on helicoils (hope I don't have to use >that one). But what sounded like the best advice was a comment to "find >out how to do it, and do it right the first time". >Thanks in advance, > >Keith Williams - RV6 - Moline Illinois >73623.2504(at)compuserve.com Keith, In 10 years of turning wrenches professionally (cars) I have had nothing but good luck with the collet type extractors. I will use them exclusively when the stud is to be reused. I have also found them to have very good clamping force, especially when space is tight and nothing else will fit. If the stud is to be tossed and there is enough room, vice-grips are hard to beat as far as "bite" is concerned. I am also a firm believer in heating the housing, or whatever the stud is threaded into. This is especially true of steel-stud-into-aluminum-housing situations such as yours. When heated, aluminum expands a greater amount than does steel, thus "loosening" the grip somewhat. Some discretion is in order when heating aluminum, though. Aluminum will melt long before it changes color; ie. turning red-hot. I would not use an oxy-acetylene setup for this application. The flame is way too hot. I use your garden-variety hardware store propane torch for heating duties. Once the "grip" is loosened somewhat, the next step is to "shock" the stud loose if possible. The key is to apply as much turning force as quickly as possible without exceeding the unknown strength of the derelict stud. As has been stated before by others, lightly tapping the end of the stud will "shock" the stud and hopefully cause the 40+ year old bond to be broken, releasing the stud. Once the stud starts to turn, BE GENTLE. There is absolutely no lube down in there now and it doesn't take much to gall the threads. This is where the penetrating oil (WD-40, etc.) really works. Spray it on the stud and work it back and forth to get it down in there. Then, as progress will allow, remove the stud. Be patient, though. Carefully inspect the threads in the hole, chase if necessary and install the new stud. ALWAYS USE NEVER-SEIZE on exhaust studs, nuts, etc.! Regards, > Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Banks, OR Fuel tanks, Fuse soon... Honey-do list growing... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
Date: Oct 27, 1998
> >I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? >It sure >looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main >ribs are >installed. > >Check six! >Mark > > > Mark, One of the off-set "S" shaped rivet sets as sold in the avery catalog works great. If you ended up with ribs that are extremely close to the rivets you may have to grind a very small amount of the side at the rivet set end. I use some duct tape wrapped on the set and spring to keep it from turning if you have to rivet one handed (solo). Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-6A Nose Gear Failed Inspection
Date: Oct 27, 1998
>I spoke with Tom Green today. I believe that I am the first to have >it fail >inspection. Tom indicated that when the new gear is installed, I will >not >have to check it in the future. Regardless, I will be ordering a dye >kit >from ASS. With the -6A, the nose gear needs to be removed to clean >the air >filter, so why not check the nose gear also? It really is cheap >insurance. > Checking the nose gear leg for cracks once a year would be added insurance against a failure, but I have never had to remove the gear leg on any RV-6A (O-320 or O-360) to service the air filter. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
Date: Oct 27, 1998
>Hmm. Les, I found your comments above very interesting. Mine also >cracked and were replaced by nuts purchased at True Value. What >bothers me is this may be a problem that's been around for a while >and still isn't fixed. Maybe not. I must admit that mine were pretty > >obvious when they cracked. I felt the nut give when it did it. I >immediately backed them off and found they had broken in three >places! Seems to me that the kits need to get the AN365 coarse >thread nuts if that's what they suggest to buy anyway. - The kits have been supplied with nylock style nuts for a quite awhile. If I am not mistaken there was a note in a past RVator mentioning the problem with some of the all steel nuts, but who has time to read the RVator with all the RV-list mail to read through. :-) Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: My engine (and my heart) skip a beat
Date: Oct 27, 1998
> >I've had a problem with my engine that happens from time to time. At >full >throttle and high RPM (2600 and above) my engine "shutters" for a >split >second. It feels like its been hit by a bullet. This only happens in >cruise, >not on take-off. - It sounds like you have a problem that may be RPM/power output related. I fixed a problem on an O-320 once that acted exactly like this. It turned out that a couple of the valve clearances were excessive. One was right at the upper end of the limit range and the other was outside of the limit range by about .005". If in your trouble shooting you decide to check the valve clearance remember that you must first remove all of the valve hydraulic units and collapse them and then check it after reassembly. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 1998
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: weird altimeter
I'm SO confused. I recently had an altimeter failure: landed at an airport withfield elevation of ~40', with alt. reading ~700' until I touched the adjustment knob, when it whipped around to the correct reading. I ordered an overhauled alt., installed, & test flew. It seemed a little erratic (needle bouncing around a lot) so I checked the static lines for leaks. Found a couple, & fixed. Pulled enough vac. to register ~1500' alt. increase, & system held reading for several minutes. Flew again. Noticed that on a high speed pass down my home runway, the alt. indicates ~100' instead of the field elevation of 250' + ~20' agl of pass. Approach says that the blind encoder is indicating the same altittude as the new alt. when it's set to the local barometric pressure (while flying at normal cruise speed of ~ 165 kts). Land & it indicates within ~60' of field elevation. Static ports are on sides of fuse. ahead of hor. stab. in (I guess) normal location. It is possible that the old alt. did the same thing, but I never looked before during a pass down the runway. Am I crazy, is it crazy, or is this normal & I slept through that session of ground school? Thanks Charlie (purchased 4 years ago) RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-6A Nose Gear Failed Inspection
<< With the -6A, the nose gear needs to be removed to clean the air filter, so why not check the nose gear also? >> You 6A builders, this is only true if the cowling slot plug attached to the nose gear is done improperly. It should be possible (I did it) to allow a 1/2" gap vertically between the bottom of the FAB airbox and the top of the cowling slot plug (or whatever you want to call it) attached to the gear. This will allow you to drop the box off to access the filter. Think maintainability. Who wants to remove the gear to change/clean the filter? -GV -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Weigh In.......RV-6Q
Hello listers, Today RV-6Q N84N tipped the scales ashamedly at 1113 lbs. She is fitted with; 0-360-A1A, Lasar Ignition, Hartzell C/S, full gyros, Navaid, oil separator, Setrab oil cooler, single comm, gear leg fairings and new Press/Recov two piece wheel pants and painted. The C.G. hit 69.2 just inside the forward limit, which is nice. My dilemma is how to choose the gross wt. limit. With regard to the forward empty C.G. I can easily go to higher gross, but what are the limiting parameters. Any input as to how to choose the gross wt. will be most welcome. Thanks, Ron V, Seattle area, FAA inspection Friday the 30th. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
> Hmm. Les, I found your comments above very interesting. Mine also > cracked and were replaced by nuts purchased at True Value. What > bothers me is this may be a problem that's been around for a while > and still isn't fixed. Maybe not. I must admit that mine were > pretty obvious when they cracked. I felt the nut give when it did > it. I immediately backed them off and found they had broken in > three places! Mine didn't crack when I torqued them. I can see however that if you ran the nuts down to the shoulder on the bolt and kept torquing you may well shatter the poor blighters. I added washers to assure myself this couldn't happen. Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Smioking Rivets on wing
Date: Oct 28, 1998
How many hours in service before this became noticeable? Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont. Have discovered I have smoking rivets on first 10-15 3/32nd rivets attaching upper wing skin to rear spar just outboard of rear spar attach bracket on my RV-6. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Step installation
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I sawed 5/8 to 3/4 inch off the length of the step tube to shorten it. This is not mentioned in the plans, but that is what it needed. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont If I place the steps so that they fit flush with the web of F-623, the tube will protrude out the bottom skin about an inch and the angle of the step plate will not match the skin. Is the solution just to raise the step high enough to anchor it somewhere on F-625 baggage floor rib? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks)
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I'm thinking about doing the same thing. Will you use the cork gaskets or make some neoprene ones ? Mark McGee RV4 Left Wing bottom skins riveted on > >many or more posts from people who have leaky fuel access covers. Is >there a message here? I'm going to take all this information to heart >and just proseal the damn things on like Van says. > >Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: 6A Main Axle Question
Date: Oct 28, 1998
>Mine didn't crack when I torqued them. I can see however that if >you ran the nuts down to the shoulder on the bolt and kept >torquing you may well shatter the poor blighters. I added washers to >assure myself this couldn't happen. Peter, in my defense, I'll answer your question on this. I'm pretty careful about not bottoming out the nuts hard. I, too, use washers. The breaks started just as the nuts started expanding at the friction locks. As soon as the threads were in that area a bit, the crack could be felt. I didn't get the threads all the way in. I've done several AN363s since then, and several before I ever started this kit, and have never had one fail before. These were just some bad parts. Per Scott's note, Van's has been using the fiber lock nuts in the kits for some time because of the problem. Well, I just got my kit early this year; so, a long time must mean a long time this year. Some of the nuts may be just fine, as Peter experienced; but, I'd sure be suspicious and take a look at them. Jim Sears in KY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
Mine were a press fit (not finger press, but about what you'd expect for a bushing or the like); I don't think they are the wrong dimension. I placed the VA-111 on a particle board 'cushion' and tapped the pushrod onto it with a rubber mallet. I did everything at room temperature; if you find that a moderate tap won't move the fitting, try the heating method (I'd stick the fittings in the freezer). It'll fit firmly enough for the fitting up process and make you think seriously about welding them on. I rivetted mine, but a weld might've been nicer looking. PatK - RV-6A - In storage looking for a shop Sam Buchanan wrote: > > > Rick, > > This an unnecessary pain. I don't know why the fittings couldn't be > shipped with the correct dimensions.... > > I chucked the VA-111's in the drill press and reduced the diameter of > the shank with a file. A few minutes of grinding and they fit the way > they should have out of the bag. > > Sam Buchanan (trimming tipup canopy) > "The RV Journal http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6 > > Rick & Barbara Osgood wrote: > > > > > > Hello Listers, > > > > Has anyone mastered the secret of how to get the VA-111 fitting into the > > aileron push tube? > > > > Thanks > > Rick Osgood > > RV6A > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Weigh In.......RV-6Q
> > Hello listers, > > Today RV-6Q N84N tipped the scales ashamedly at 1113 lbs. > She is fitted with; 0-360-A1A, Lasar Ignition, Hartzell C/S, full gyros, > Navaid, oil separator, Setrab oil cooler, single > comm, gear leg fairings and new Press/Recov two piece wheel pants and > painted. The C.G. hit 69.2 just inside the forward limit, which is nice. > > My dilemma is how to choose the gross wt. limit. With regard to > the forward empty C.G. I can easily go to higher gross, but what are the > limiting parameters. > Any input as to how to choose the gross wt. will be most welcome. > > Thanks, > > Ron V, Seattle area, FAA inspection Friday the 30th. The DAR that inspected my airplane required 2 copies of weight and balance for the airplane. We wanted several different configurations. I gave him the following CG calculations. Empty Weight CG Gross Weight CG Most Aft CG for standard loading Most Forward CG Most Forward CG (standard pilot) Most Forward CG (Min pilot) Gross Weight Heavy Pilot, Baggage & Reduced fuel Gross Weight Heavy Pilot, Baggage and MIN fuel Gross Weight Heavy Pilot, reduced Baggage and MIN Fuel Set up a spreadsheet with your computer and let it do the math. Print out the results for the FAA. These calculations will tell you what you want the Gross weight at. I wanted to know the worst case weight and balance so set the gross weight at 1800. That is what I gave the FAA. BTW: Empty weight is 1086. == Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell Flying in So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
i used the deburring tool on the inside edge of the tube, the fitting fit in good and snugg scott winging it in tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: Re: wig-wag flashers and lights
> >I just installed a module to alternately flash my landing lights. I used > >a solid state unit for emergency vehicles that flashes 1.9/second. > >Installation was easy and comments from ATC, other aircraft and people > >on the ground has been very favourable. I stopped by my hangar last night and retrieved the part number and supplier for the wig-wag flasher I just installed. Part# 3666-1 Star Headlight & Lantern Co. of Canada Ltd. 8591 Earl Thomas Ave., Niagara Falls, Ontario, Canada L2E6X8 Phone 905-357-0222 Fax. 905-357-9122 email to: sales(at)starheadlight.com Star Headlight & Lantern Co. 455 Rochester St. Avon, New York 14414, USA Phone 716-226-9500 Fax. 716-226-2029 email to: StarWarningSystems(at)StarHeadlight.com Terry Jantzi Kitchener ON RV-6 C-GZRV <http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Weigh In.......RV-6Q
Gary, I am certain you will get lots of suggestions as to how to scientifically go about this - considering G loading, weight etc., and I am not qualified to offer anything there. Just wanted to let you know my RV-6A came in empty at 1170 lbs, with CG at forward limit and I have the certification for a gross weight of 1800 lbs which is about 8% over the 1650 lbs that VAn Lists for the RV-6A. I have seen some RV-6As gross limit set at 1900 lbs. Clearly flying at a 1800 gross adds additional stress and I would be very gentle in the landing phase at those weights - don't want to drop it in and splay the gear {:>} The only two effects I have noticed thus far (only sixth flight) due to heavier weight and forward CG is that with full flaps (40 degrees<100 mph)I do not have quite enough trim authority to trim it level with the weight at 1490 (full fuel and only me). Also, my indicated stall speed at that weigh was 60 MPH. Flaps only seem to make a knot or two difference. On the other hand the aircraft is very stable with the forward CG. I am also told that the additional drag caused by more down force required on the horizontal stab may knock off a few MPH of top cruise speed. Have not yet expanded the performance envelop to that area yet. Good luck on your fight, I had never landed or taken off in a RV and even though I had some oil temp problems that limited my first flight to once around the traffic pattern, there was no problem flying the aircraft - its an honest flying bird. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Mazda Powered Gary A. Sobek wrote: > > > > > > Today RV-6Q N84N tipped the scales ashamedly at 1113 lbs. > > > > > > My dilemma is how to choose the gross wt. limit. With regard to > > the forward empty C.G. I can easily go to higher gross, but what are > the > > limiting parameters. > > Any input as to how to choose the gross wt. will be most welcome. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ron V, Seattle area, FAA inspection Friday the 30th. > > The DAR that inspected my airplane required 2 copies of weight and > balance for the airplane. We wanted several different configurations. > I gave him the following CG calculations. > > Empty Weight CG > Gross Weight CG > Most Aft CG for standard loading > Most Forward CG > Most Forward CG (standard pilot) > Most Forward CG (Min pilot) > Gross Weight Heavy Pilot, Baggage & Reduced fuel > Gross Weight Heavy Pilot, Baggage and MIN fuel > Gross Weight Heavy Pilot, reduced Baggage and MIN Fuel > > Set up a spreadsheet with your computer and let it do the math. Print > out the results for the FAA. > > These calculations will tell you what you want the Gross weight at. I > wanted to know the worst case weight and balance so set the gross > weight at 1800. That is what I gave the FAA. BTW: Empty weight is > 1086. > > == > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell > Flying in So. CA, USA > RV6flier(at)yahoo.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Wing Kit for sale
Y'all, Today I received a very sad phone call. A friend who is building an RV6 has to sell his project due to terminal illness. He would like to sell his project. For sale is a completed RV6 empennage. The workmanship is good on this. The RV6 wings have just been started with the only work done being cleaning up a few parts. He is asking $4800 for everything. Please call me if you are interested at (817) 439-3280 or email. George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A Nose Gear Failed Inspection
>Checking the nose gear leg for cracks once a year would be added >insurance against a failure, but I have never had to remove the gear leg >on any RV-6A (O-320 or O-360) to service the air filter. > > >Scott McDaniels >These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily >reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. > > Scott, The portion of the gear leg fairing that extends forward of the gear (fills the slot in the lower cowl) prevents the air box from being removed. I guess I made mine extends too far up into the cowl. Oh well, I'll have another chance of making it in the near future. Scott Gesele N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Smioking Rivets on wing
Date: Oct 28, 1998
It was noticeable at about 90 hours but got more noticeable in the last 20-30 hours. The plane has about 130 hours total time. From: Stephen J. Soule <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 5:20 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Smioking Rivets on wing > >How many hours in service before this became noticeable? > >Steve Soule >Huntington, Vermont. > > > Have discovered I have smoking rivets on first 10-15 >3/32nd rivets > attaching upper wing skin to rear spar just outboard of rear >spar attach > bracket on my RV-6. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6junkie(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: GPS
In a message dated 10/27/98 10:50:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, bskinr(at)trib.com writes: << I'm in the market for a new, hand-held GPS. I've narrowed the choice down to the Lowrance 100 or the Garmin lll. >> I've used the III extensively. Love it. Gary Corde RV-6 N211GC - NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: IFR
Hi Folks, A couple of recent posts have mentioned not using an autopilot during training for the instrument rating. I agree with this philosophy, but would add that I would STRONGLY suggest that anyone contemplating the possibilty of actually using an autopilot for an approach get some practice before attempting the real thing. There are times when using "automation" is actually more work than hand flying. Like your trusty personal computer, an A/P with do what you tell it to do, which might not be what you WANTED it to do. It will fly the ariplane nicely, but has no common sense and will quite happily fly you into the ground. It's also worth noting that you can't delegate PIC responsibility. If you're climbing smartly out of an airport that lies beneath Class B airspace, and your A/P pitch axis fails to respond to your input, driving you up through the floor or the Class B, guess who gets the certified letter from the Friendly Aviation Administration? It won't be the autopilot! Back to flying: I like to hand-fly most approaches (at work, that is), but I still let "George" do one periodically so I can maintain proficiency in flying an approach either way. Proficiency, be it hand flying or autopilot "management," is the name of the game. After you get that cloud license, get together with your instructor or safety pilot and fly an "autopilot checkride," doing all the same stuff as a hand flown session. Don't forget to throw in an occasional autopilot failure in the middle of an approach or holding pattern entry, just to keep things interesting. ; ) Fly safe. Tim Pittsburgh ATP/CFII Future RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kirkpatrick, Pat W" <pat.w.kirkpatrick(at)intel.com>
Subject: Step installation
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I had to do the same thing even though the factory said nobody else had to. Pat Kirkpatrick Rio Rancho NM I sawed 5/8 to 3/4 inch off the length of the step tube to shorten it. This is not mentioned in the plans, but that is what it needed. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont If I place the steps so that they fit flush with the web of F-623, the tube will protrude out the bottom skin about an inch and the angle of the step plate will not match the skin. Is the solution just to raise the step high enough to anchor it somewhere on F-625 baggage floor rib? | | | | | | ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com>
Subject: IFR
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Go out and get the October issue of FLYING and read Thomas Block "Flying the line". The article "Pilots must take control" is an excellent essay on this very subject. Bob RV* #423 From: Tim Bronson [mailto:IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 9:38 AM Subject: RV-List: IFR Hi Folks, A couple of recent posts have mentioned not using an autopilot during training for the instrument rating. I agree with this philosophy, but would add that I would STRONGLY suggest that anyone contemplating the possibilty of actually using an autopilot for an approach get some practice before attempting the real thing. There are times when using "automation" is actually more work than hand flying. Like your trusty personal computer, an A/P with do what you tell it to do, which might not be what you WANTED it to do. It will fly the ariplane nicely, but has no common sense and will quite happily fly you into the ground. It's also worth noting that you can't delegate PIC responsibility. If you're climbing smartly out of an airport that lies beneath Class B airspace, and your A/P pitch axis fails to respond to your input, driving you up through the floor or the Class B, guess who gets the certified letter from the Friendly Aviation Administration? It won't be the autopilot! Back to flying: I like to hand-fly most approaches (at work, that is), but I still let "George" do one periodically so I can maintain proficiency in flying an approach either way. Proficiency, be it hand flying or autopilot "management," is the name of the game. After you get that cloud license, get together with your instructor or safety pilot and fly an "autopilot checkride," doing all the same stuff as a hand flown session. Don't forget to throw in an occasional autopilot failure in the middle of an approach or holding pattern entry, just to keep things interesting. ; ) Fly safe. Tim Pittsburgh ATP/CFII Future RV-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
Date: Oct 28, 1998
>engine, I have forgotten the old leaning habits (lean to rough, then enrichen >till it smooths back out) and now stare compulsively at my digital EGT >display. Leaning should probably be done first by feel, eyes outside the >cockpit, with an occasional reference to the gauges to verify optimum setings, >right? Bill ( and others): Are you telling us that with all those EGT/CHT gauges good ears and feel is just as good to properly lean out an engine?? No kidding, I want to keep my engine monitoring system SIMPLE and plan to install only oil temp. and pressure gauges ( posssibly with an audible back-up system). What do you think? Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage|| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Chris Hill <hill(at)ti.com>
Subject: Re: GPS
I'm assuming you mean the Pilot III; I have one of these and I consider it to be the best aviation addition I've purchased so far. Easy to use and reliable... won't take a long cross country without it anymore (or at least hope I never have to). > >In a message dated 10/27/98 10:50:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, bskinr(at)trib.com >writes: > ><< I'm in the market for a new, hand-held GPS. I've narrowed the choice down > to the Lowrance 100 or the Garmin lll. >> > >I've used the III extensively. Love it. > >Gary Corde >RV-6 N211GC - NJ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
Lothar, I just ordered the Audio Flight Avionics AV-8 monitor as a compromise between the very basic, and the full bells and whistles extreme. The AV-8 is their lower priced model, provides all the basic engine monitoring plus 2 CHT and 2 EGT, monitoring for shock cooling, various programmable timers (for example an audio reminder to switch tanks), high and low limit monitoring with a red light and audio to inform you if any limits are exceeded. All in a single 3.125" instrument. What could be more SIMPLE than a single gauge that watches itself? Like having a second set of eyes scanning the panel for you as a back up. Yeah I know all about the arguments about digital versus analog readouts, and the fears of putting all your eggs in one basket. Its a personal decision and probably not for everybody. If you arent pre-disposed toward analog you should consider it (or the Grand Rapids EIS). I bought it at Copperstate so got a show discount. Price including all necessary probes was about $750. Cheaper and smaller, than the RMI micro monitor, and you dont have to build it. Doubt if you could buy all the FAA mandated gauges for significantly less. In the -4 the space savings alone is worth the $. If interested see: http://www.rose.com/~afa/index.html Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil >No kidding, I want to keep my engine monitoring system SIMPLE and plan to >install only oil temp. and pressure gauges ( posssibly with an audible >back-up system). What do you think? > > Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage|| > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Step installation
Date: Oct 28, 1998
>If I place the steps so that they fit flush with the web of F-623, the >tube will protrude out the bottom skin about an inch and the angle of >the step plate will not match the skin. Is the solution just to raise >the step high enough to anchor it somewhere on F-625 baggage floor >rib? >Brian Eckstein >6A Fuse 747BS reserved Brian: I had the same problem. I was ready to sell the project. The key is to bend the steel flange of the weldment to fit the fuselage ( after you have fit it to the fuselage as best you can). You want it to just touch the 623, aligned with the 624 (on the 2nd row of rivets). your hole in the 625 will be controled by the 8.75 inches from the 606 to the block & the block wants to stick out the bottom about 1 inch. Locate the block & cut the hole in the 625 & let the steel flange go. Then come back & bent the steel flange & trim one corner to fit. 3 problems I had: The tube is too long at the block. don't cut off too much. don't drill skin holes under the steel flange on the 624. the flange holes control not the skin holes. I ended up will a few lighning holes under the flange, but don't tell. The 626 rib needs to be riveted down to the skin before you drill thru the tube for the long bolt. I am waiting till I get out of the fixture with the center bottom skins on to drill the long bolts & install the steps. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I'm interested but not sure how many are needed for a RV6. What would the price be per screw and do these require a special nut plate? From: Steven B. Janicki <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 9:47 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks > > > >I contacted the company today. They informed me that they would sell them in >lot's of 100. I would be glad to join in a group purchase. > >From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 6:29 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks > > > >Mark McGee wrote: >> >> >> I was thinking of going with the self-sealing screw method. Check them >out >> at http://www.longlok.com/top.htm >> >> They sent me a sample of a number 8 stainless steel screw with Viton >O-Ring >> in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful piece of hardware >but >> they will not sell to individuals. You will need a dealer to purchase >them >> for you. >> >> If you find a dealer I would be interested in placing an order too. Maybe >> we could get better pricing if we ordered together. >> >> Let me know. >> >> Mark McGee >> RV4 Wings >> >> > >Be advised that these screws are expensive. I spent around $50 for >enough screws for both tanks. >Ed Cole >RV6A Fuselage > > > >+ >+ > > > name="Steven B Janicki.vcf" > filename="Steven B Janicki.vcf" > >BEGIN:VCARD >VERSION:2.1 >N:Janicki;Steven;B >FN:Steven B Janicki >ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center >TITLE:Sr. Director >TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740 >TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165 >ADR;WORK:;;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA >Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA >URL:http://www.oracle.com >URL:http://www.oracle.com >EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com >REV:19981028T034523Z >END:VCARD > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I won't know until I receive the catalog. I was told that the minimum order would be qty. 100. From: Marty RV6A <emrath(at)email.msn.com> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 9:20 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks I'm interested but not sure how many are needed for a RV6. What would the price be per screw and do these require a special nut plate? From: Steven B. Janicki <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 9:47 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks > > > >I contacted the company today. They informed me that they would sell them in >lot's of 100. I would be glad to join in a group purchase. > >From: Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 6:29 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks > > > >Mark McGee wrote: >> >> >> I was thinking of going with the self-sealing screw method. Check them >out >> at http://www.longlok.com/top.htm >> >> They sent me a sample of a number 8 stainless steel screw with Viton >O-Ring >> in a milled groove under the head. It is a beautiful piece of hardware >but >> they will not sell to individuals. You will need a dealer to purchase >them >> for you. >> >> If you find a dealer I would be interested in placing an order too. Maybe >> we could get better pricing if we ordered together. >> >> Let me know. >> >> Mark McGee >> RV4 Wings >> >> > >Be advised that these screws are expensive. I spent around $50 for >enough screws for both tanks. >Ed Cole >RV6A Fuselage > > > >+ >+ > > > name="Steven B Janicki.vcf" > filename="Steven B Janicki.vcf" > >BEGIN:VCARD >VERSION:2.1 >N:Janicki;Steven;B >FN:Steven B Janicki >ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center >TITLE:Sr. Director >TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740 >TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165 >ADR;WORK:;;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA >Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA >URL:http://www.oracle.com >URL:http://www.oracle.com >EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com >REV:19981028T034523Z >END:VCARD > > > > > > > + + name="Steve B Janicki.vcf" filename="Steve B Janicki.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Janicki;Steve;B FN:Steve B Janicki ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center TITLE:Sr. Director TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740 TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165 ADR;WORK:;4op4;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA Pkwy=3D0D=3D0ARedwood Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA URL: URL:http://www.oracle.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com REV:19981028T172717Z END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
>Fellas: > >I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? It sure >looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main ribs are >installed. > >Check six! >Mark Mark I did not put the main wing ribs on their center line at the main spar. I moved the main ribs over towards the tip 1/16" to 3/32" where they attached to the main spar. This still gave enough room to still dimple the 3/32 holes on the rib for the wing skins and it also allowed more room to put in the nose ribs with a ground off modified offset snap. Even with these changes it still was a *?????***>. Good Luck RV8 80274 Rob Hatwell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6A Nose Gear Failed Inspection
Date: Oct 28, 1998
You can get a crack checking dye kit at most welding supply houses save you the shipping. From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 9:00 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Nose Gear Failed Inspection > >Listers, > >To all of those RV-6A pilots out there, take the recent service bulletin >VERY seriously. Today I had N506RV's nose gear tested by an aerospace >materials testing company and it failed inspection. The crack was right >where the service bulletin said to look for it. I am currently packing the >nose gear for shipment back to Van's. > >Some details: >- The service bulletin says to polish the gear prior to testing. I did not >do this as I was told that the beginning of a crack may be masked by >mechanically working the area; the paint was stripped though. The testing >company is well respected and I have 100% confidence in their results. As I >stated, the testing company is an aerospace materials testing company that >tests turbine components daily. >- N506RV has 175 hrs on the tach. >- The airplane has been operated out of a grass strip and one of the >taxiways is a little bouncy. I wouldn't call it rough. The runway is >probably the smoothest grass field I have ever flown out of. >- One trip early last summer was into a grass field that was awful (Katama, >on Martha's Vineyard). Even during taxi, the aircraft was bouncing all over >the place. >- One student learned to fly (and land) in this airplane. Some of the early >landings weren't all that great (sorry Tom), but the gear didn't take the >abuse that a typical Cessna will see with a primary student as I intervened >on the controls prior to a "simulated carrier landing". >- One wheel shimmy was experience. This happened on the way to Oshkosh last >Summer. This was corrected by increasing the break out force on the nose gear. > >I spoke with Tom Green today. I believe that I am the first to have it fail >inspection. Tom indicated that when the new gear is installed, I will not >have to check it in the future. Regardless, I will be ordering a dye kit >from ASS. With the -6A, the nose gear needs to be removed to clean the air >filter, so why not check the nose gear also? It really is cheap insurance. >I've got $25K invested firewall forward and am so glad to catch this problem >now instead of later. > >That's all I know at this time. I'm trying to be as unbiased in this post >as possible. I'll keep the list updated on any new info. > >Take care. > >Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying (now grounded) > >PS: I am sending a copy of this post to van's as Tom Green is the only >person I have spoken to at this time. > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Weigh In.......RV-6Q
Anderson Ed wrote: > > Gary, I am certain you will get lots of suggestions as to how to > scientifically go about this - considering G loading, weight etc., and I > am not qualified to offer anything there. Just wanted to let you know > my RV-6A came in empty at 1170 lbs, with CG at forward limit and I have > the certification for a gross weight of 1800 lbs which is about 8% over > the 1650 lbs that VAn Lists for the RV-6A. I have seen some RV-6As > gross limit set at 1900 lbs. Clearly flying at a 1800 gross adds > additional stress and I would be very gentle in the landing phase at > those weights - don't want to drop it in and splay the gear {:>} > > The only two effects I have noticed thus far (only sixth flight) due to > heavier weight and forward CG is that with full flaps (40 degrees<100 > mph)I do not have quite enough trim authority to trim it level with the > weight at 1490 (full fuel and only me). Also, my indicated stall speed > at that weigh was 60 MPH. Flaps only seem to make a knot or two > difference. On the other hand the aircraft is very stable with the > forward CG. I am also told that the additional drag caused by more down > force required on the horizontal stab may knock off a few MPH of top > cruise speed. Have not yet expanded the performance envelop to that > area yet. Good luck on your fight, I had never landed or taken off in a > RV and even though I had some oil temp problems that limited my first > flight to once around the traffic pattern, there was no problem flying > the aircraft - its an honest flying bird. > > Ed > These experiences fairly well mirror mine with N133DW, RV-6A which is now 1125 empty. It has O-360 A1A, C/S, slider. I certified it at 1840 max gross weight, based on a utility est of 4.4 g limit. This was based on a comment from the list! Of course I did all the calculations to be sure the CG was within limits. The close one will probably be landing with two people and max baggaage, empty fuel. It has worked for me, and as a practical matter I do not usually exceed 1800. On solo flights where some light acro is required (which is frequent) I put my tool kit in the baggage compartment which helps me keep from dishing out on rolls. The trim at limit on landing only occurs when solo without the tool kit. with two people there is lots of trim available. The problem there is limiting the sink rate, not cg. BTW if i were starting over I would definitely look at putting the battery in the bag comp and sacrifice a little capacity in favor of a more agile cg. Finally, I believe "what you were told about more down force on elevator reducing top speed..." is probably wrong as my elev is still down during cruise, which has been adequate to keep up with or pass other 6s. It is 197.5 MPH at 75%, 8000 feet. this is .5 MPH faster than Van advertises, but I give him the benefit on measurement accuracy, although I have tested it many times. D Walsh Back in the air after NDI on nose gear (435 landings) ( see other post on gear comments) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6A Nose Gear Failed Inspection
Scott Gesele wrote: > > Listers, > > To all of those RV-6A pilots out there, take the recent service bulletin > VERY seriously. Today I had N506RV's nose gear tested by an aerospace > materials testing company and it failed inspection. The crack was right > where the service bulletin said to look for it. I am currently packing the > nose gear for shipment back to Van's. > > Some details: > - The service bulletin says to polish the gear prior to testing. I did not > do this as I was told that the beginning of a crack may be masked by > mechanically working the area; the paint was stripped though. The testing > company is well respected and I have 100% confidence in their results. As I > stated, the testing company is an aerospace materials testing company that > tests turbine components daily. > - N506RV has 175 hrs on the tach. > - The airplane has been operated out of a grass strip and one of the > taxiways is a little bouncy. I wouldn't call it rough. The runway is > probably the smoothest grass field I have ever flown out of. > - One trip early last summer was into a grass field that was awful (Katama, > on Martha's Vineyard). Even during taxi, the aircraft was bouncing all over > the place. > - One student learned to fly (and land) in this airplane. Some of the early > landings weren't all that great (sorry Tom), but the gear didn't take the > abuse that a typical Cessna will see with a primary student as I intervened > on the controls prior to a "simulated carrier landing". > - One wheel shimmy was experience. This happened on the way to Oshkosh last > Summer. This was corrected by increasing the break out force on the nose gear. > > I spoke with Tom Green today. I believe that I am the first to have it fail > inspection. Tom indicated that when the new gear is installed, I will not > have to check it in the future. Regardless, I will be ordering a dye kit > from ASS. With the -6A, the nose gear needs to be removed to clean the air > filter, so why not check the nose gear also? It really is cheap insurance. > I've got $25K invested firewall forward and am so glad to catch this problem > now instead of later. > > That's all I know at this time. I'm trying to be as unbiased in this post > as possible. I'll keep the list updated on any new info. > > Take care. > > Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying (now grounded) > > PS: I am sending a copy of this post to van's as Tom Green is the only > person I have spoken to at this time. > > > Yo listers. I received van's dye penetrant kit via UPS yesterday and have > already completed my insp. Any one in the hours flyign radius of Denver need > it? let me know as I am going to call Van tomorrow to get teh address of nex t > recipient. I was glad I followed teh instructions as did find two mars which merited sanding out. One looked like a wrench dent and the other was a scratch possibly from a screw driver. these cane out with 400 sandpaper. After that I polished with grey scotchbrite. The gear showed no cracks. I had 330 hours and 435 landings on it. I have kept track of landings. The runways and taxiways at Front Range, Denver, is exceptionally smooth, and I have always treated the nose gear very gently. To put the best face on it, I have been around a while and learned how to land smoothly a few years ago. The only jolts my gear has had is going over to Aurora Air Park once in a great while. They have a paved surface but the taxiways are full of pot holes and are quite bouncy. I always taxi at a slow crawl there. Please pass the word quickly if you know anyone needing the kit in the area. D Walsh call @ 303 756 6543 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
> > > > Bill ( and others): Are you telling us that with all those EGT/CHT gauges > good ears and feel is just as good to properly lean out an engine?? > No kidding, I want to keep my engine monitoring system SIMPLE and plan to > install only oil temp. and pressure gauges ( posssibly with an audible > back-up system). What do you think? > > Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage|| > Lotar, I thought I dmonstrated that? Maybe you need another demo. I am always ready and willing . I cannot speak for others but certainly in my case the lean til it stumbles then shove it in a little works for me great. BTW this procedure is what is stipulated in the Lycoming operators handbook .... for carburetted non boosted engines. I feel that my four egt system is a waste of space and money for my carburetted O-360. I cannot determine which cylinder goes lean first by egt. They are always too close. in addition (as covered in other posts) which one goes lean first (not necessarily the hottest!) changes with power setting, speed RPM, and you name it.... Pull, sputter, push. That's the way the Navy taught me and it seems to work just as well now. Now, having four CHTs..... that's another story! Sigh. Also, if you get fuel injection it is also a far different story. Let's go back to Corsair's flights of fancy and quick arguing all this theoretical stuff. I gotta go fly. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
>Bill ( and others): Are you telling us that with all those EGT/CHT gauges >good ears and feel is just as good to properly lean out an engine?? No, but it gets you in the ballpark. I find if I use the "earball" method of leaning I usually end up about 100-150 degrees rich of peak EGT or approximately best power. >No kidding, I want to keep my engine monitoring system SIMPLE and plan to >install only oil temp. and pressure gauges ( posssibly with an audible >back-up system). What do you think? I do not like to fly without CHT display for all cylinders. My experience is that top end life is a function of CHT. Keep the cylinders cool and your cylinders will last a long time. This should not be a surprise if you look at the stength-to-temperature curve for our aluminum cylinder heads. EGT is nice to have. It greatly aids troubleshooting and can alert you to subtle changes in the way your engine is running before they become a problem. It is also a great aid in leaning the engine. For these reasons I want EGT for all cylinders as well. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks
<< I'm interested but not sure how many are needed for a RV6. What would the price be per screw and do these require a special nut plate >> Before we conclude that these special screws are necessary, consider what my A&P told me today: Cessna (and others) use a combination of rubber and metal washers under the screw heads to seal the screws which hold their fuel senders to the tanks. They fit #8 screws and run $1.03 each. He told me the part #, but I forgot it. And he seems to feel that a neoprene gasket would seal the inspection plates and senders well without any extra goo applied; better than cork. -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Step installation
> the angle of the step plate will not match the skin. I tapped on mine to reshape it just a bit. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: fule tank leaks)
> From: "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com> > To: > Subject: Re: fuel tank leaks (was Re: RV-List: fule tank leaks) > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 06:18:00 -0500 > >> I'm going to take all this information to heart >> and just proseal the damn things on like Van says. > I'm thinking about doing the same thing. Will you use the cork gaskets or > make some neoprene ones ? I got some fiber gasket material from auto parts store, and plan to make my final gaskets out of that. I think using any kind of rubber would defeat the purpose of the proseal since it isn't likely to stick very well. BTW when I pressure tested my tanks, I used the cork gaskets and fuelube, even though I didn't plan for this to be the final seal. The only leak head. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998, Patrick Kelley wrote: > method (I'd stick the fittings in the freezer). It'll fit firmly enough > for the fitting up process and make you think seriously about welding > them on. I rivetted mine, but a weld might've been nicer looking. I just finished rivetting mine together. For some reason, I had lots of trouble... several of my rivets seemed intent on going sideways. I'd recommend welding. > > I chucked the VA-111's in the drill press and reduced the diameter of > > the shank with a file. A few minutes of grinding and they fit the way > > they should have out of the bag. Before reducing the VA-111 size, make sure that you've deburred the inside edge of the tube. A slight burr here might be what's stopping the fitting from, well, fitting. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bdserv(at)usa.net
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Contribute to the list
Just another reminder - don't put if off any longer - contribute something to Matt for the RV-List today. DON'T WAIT - DO IT NOW! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: getting the @?!& VA-111 into the tube
Date: Oct 28, 1998
If you have trouble with these, you might try a tube drilling jig for your drill press (Avery catalog #74735, $15.) It allows clamping the tube squarely in the center and makes it easy to center the tube under the drill bit. The jig clamps to the drill press table. I had no trouble drilling and riveting the end fittings into the push rod tubes. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraigst(at)ionet.net RV-4 mounting remote oil cooler >I just finished rivetting mine together. For some reason, I had lots of >trouble... several of my rivets seemed intent on going sideways. I'd >recommend welding. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
>Noticed that on a high speed pass >down my home runway, the alt. indicates ~100' instead of the field elevation of >250' + ~20' agl of pass. Approach says that the blind encoder is indicating the >same altittude as the new alt. when it's set to the local barometric pressure >(while flying at normal cruise speed of ~ 165 kts). Land & it indicates within >~60' of field elevation. Static ports are on sides of fuse. ahead of hor. stab. in >(I guess) normal location. It is possible that the old alt. did the same thing, >but I never looked before during a pass down the runway. > >Am I crazy, is it crazy, or is this normal & I slept through that session of >ground school? > >Thanks > >Charlie Charlie, Are the fuselage static ports flush ones, or were they made out of domed pop rivets like Van says in the plans? I suspect that flush ports would read a higher pressure (and lower altitude) than the specified domed ports. If the blind encoder and the altimeter agree, this sounds like a straight forward error in the static source (know as position error). This would also affect the accuracy of your airspeed indicator (it would be reading higher than the actual calibrated airspeed). See the flight test part of the links page on my website for info on measuring the position and instrument errors. http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html Take care, Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings) khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: Step installation
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Thanks to all who responded to the step installation question. I got many repsonses and solutions from people who knew exactly what I was talking about. It proves again that this list is a very useful and even essential tool in building this aircraft. Oh, and well worth a few dollars. Brian Eckstein ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PILOT8127(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
razer(at)midwest.net, vanillanut(at)earthlink.net, rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV 's Fly-In
Hi Gang, Jim Whinnings at 3SY says the Indiana RVs will eat breakfast at "Elwood" Airpark Sunday Morning. Most local Rvs will be "IN the AIR" by 8:00 am. Park (airport) is a grass strip (3I1) RWYs. 18-36 El. 866 2100ft. X 300ft. turf 9-27 2,250ft.X 300ft. turf Restaurant is on the field ! Jim Nolan says the weather looks good !! See ya all there? Gary and RV3 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Wing Kit for sale
George, I would be interested in the EP Kit if he wants to break it up. You can respond off list BSivori@aol,com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
Just from the point of view of "problem solving" - it looks as tho the altimeter same cause? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Towbars
Hiya all, How does one tow an RV around? Do I just fire it up and fly from inside a hangar etc?? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net>
Subject: Re: EGT LEAN CYL?
VON L ALEXANDER wrote: > > > Would someone with an 0-360 and CHT/EGT gauges on all 4 cyl. tell which > cylinder runs the leanest? I am installing a single-cyl egt and am trying > to determine which cylinder to monitor. > Thanks. > I use the RMI Micromonitor and monitor CHT and EGT on all 4 cylinders. The spread between my engines EGT temps varies the most with manifold pressure. It seems that at low power settings my EGTs have a spread of up to 50 degrees C. While at approx. 24 inches of M/P my EGTs are within 20 degrees of each other. In addition, I have observed that seemingly insignificant changes is baffling and even adding the aluminum baffle in front of #1 cylinder which used to run 30 degrees C cooler (CHT) that the others will change the way all the cylinders are cooled. My advice is if you want to accurately and efficiently operate your engine, monitor all 4 CHT and EGTs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Riveting the plexiglass canopy...
Do most riveted canopies crack? I am using screws and nuts on the rear bow so that I can drill from inside out into the rear skins. Likewise down the center bar but I can't remember why. I'd really rather rivet to the front bow and rollover bar but I heard a lot of talk against it. Is pop riveting here really a problem? If you do use screws, what size and thread into the bars? You don't use nuts here do you? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 nose ribs attach
Date: Oct 28, 1998
><< I gotta ask about this one: How the heck are most builders doing this? It >sure > looks like there just isn't enough room to shoot 'em, once the main ribs are > installed. >> > >Try a double offset with the far side ground flat. Half the fun is making the >tools so you can put everything togather. > >Alan Kritzman >RV-8 Fus. watching the primer dry, gotta start pounding soon > For what it's worth, I couldn't get it right with the double offset and the ground flat side. I ended up putting a slight bend in the set with the help of another builder with blowtorch, anvil, and very large hammer! Steve Johnson RV-8 #80121 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Hand grip points entering the RV6A?
Me again, One owner told me the fiberglass on the rollbar very soon gets all broken up by hands gripping as one enters the aircraft. I'd like to make sure mine doesn't do that. I tried entering myself and am unsure where one might put hands since I don't yet have any seat soft parts and had to simulate with scraps of hard and soft foam. So, where does one grip? I formed a piece of aluminum that, with practice, could be made to fit the rollbar. Anyone done that? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Hand grip points entering the RV6A?
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com (cecil t hatfield)
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I welded two hand grips for mine. Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks, CA writes: > >Me again, > >One owner told me the fiberglass on the rollbar very soon gets all >broken up by >hands gripping as one enters the aircraft. I'd like to make sure mine >doesn't >do that. > >I tried entering myself and am unsure where one might put hands since >I don't >yet have any seat soft parts and had to simulate with scraps of hard >and soft >foam. So, where does one grip? > >I formed a piece of aluminum that, with practice, could be made to fit >the >rollbar. Anyone done that? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WBWard(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Towbars
In a message dated 10/28/98 6:50:58 Central Standard Time, halk(at)sybase.com writes: << Hiya all, How does one tow an RV around? Do I just fire it up and fly from inside a hangar etc?? hal>> Hal Round these parts, that's "Hi y'all." If you don't have a wheel pant on your tail wheel, a buddy of mine has an unusual but unique contraption that he uses, or rather used, to move his Thorp T-18 in and out of his hangar. It looked somewhat like a very thin and rounded Iron/Steel U channel, with a couple of small hard rubber wheels on it, and a long round handle attached to it for leverage. He would slide it inder the tail wheel, push down on the handle, which would pick up the tail wheel, and permit him to steer the airplane as he moved i out onto the ramp. T'was a very simple, but very effective device. I could imagine something similar to that device, which might allow one to connect it to a riding lawn mower/garden tractor, so one could drag his/her airplane around backwards, all over the airport, if need be. Hope this helps, or at least gets your imagination stirred up. Remember, it's Y'all. Regards Wendell WBWard(at)AOL.COM Hoping to get back to rebuilding the "Junkyard Dog" RV-4 Kit Memphis, Tennessee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moshe Lichtman <moshel(at)microsoft.com>
Subject: Towbars
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I bought a great lightweight RV6A tow bar ($50) from the fellow below: KEN BARTO, Tel: 315-622-2072 RV-6A TOW BARS AND RV INTERIOR ITEMS Moshe From: halk(at)sybase.com [mailto:halk(at)sybase.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 4:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Towbars Hiya all, How does one tow an RV around? Do I just fire it up and fly from inside a hangar etc?? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Wing skins
Hey pre-punched wing guys, Visualize the root main wing rib where it attaches to the main spar and spar flange. This is the rib that is -(3/8) from the -0- reference mark. The plans show the rib's flange is flush with the end of the spar flange. Also the skin appears to be flush. Will's notes even mentions to check the skin to see if it is flush. Ain't no way mine will be flush. My rib and skin will be aproximately 1/8" from the end(towards tip) of the spar flange. I've checked the rib web measurements and everything is right-on. I don't see it as being a problem as long as skin holes and rib centerlines are ok. Any comments?? Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Towbars
>How does one tow an RV around? For the tail-dragging bunch, there is nothing (except something you made yourself, of course) that beats the Tail Dragger Dragger. There is a model they recommend for the RV series. Contact them at www.dragger.com (web site), e-mail: dragger(at)webtv.net or phone 800-535-8640. They also have a Nose Wheel Mover but I don't know much about nose wheels. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Flying all over the place.......... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting the plexiglass canopy...
Hal Kempthorne wrote: > > Do most riveted canopies crack? > > I am using screws and nuts on the rear bow so that I can drill from inside out > into the rear skins. Likewise down the center bar but I can't remember why. > I'd really rather rivet to the front bow and rollover bar but I heard a lot of > talk against it. > > Is pop riveting here really a problem? > > If you do use screws, what size and thread into the bars? You don't use nuts > here do you? > > hal I used rivets and had no problem. I feel it is a better way to go than screwing. To make a long story somewhat short, I feel that most of the bad results from from long ago occurred when different rivets were provided. the soft pull aluminum rivets provided in my kit and now on plans are very gentle to the plexi, and I feel are less likely to crack same than a zealous screw. Good luck D Walsh. 330 hours in sun and rain and no cracks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: RV Fly-out to George AFB Airshow
We are planning an RV fly-out to the Airshow at So Cal International, (George AFB, Victorville,Ca.),on Sunday, Nov.1. All Rvators in the So. Calif. area are invited to meet up at Whiteman Airport on Sunday morning. Planning on leaving WHP around 8am. We have 3 or 4 RVs committed already, would love to get another 4,5,6... or more? Will meet at the north end of the field at the blue hangars,( #34). Sorry about the short notice; will plan better in the future. RSVP: Rvator97(at)aol.com (Walt Hastings) (805)297-7327 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Towbars
For my RV4 with the full swivel tail wheel, I welded up a light tube tow bar and put a longer bolt with 5/8 spacers on each side thru the tailwheel to put the tow bar on. Stewart Bergner RV4 Den. Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: fuel press guage
fellow listers, Wondering if any of you are using the 1 and 1/4 in UMA fuel pressure gage??? If so have you had trouble with them sticking at various places??? I have gone thru 3 of them and they all have stuck after inital use. UMA can't tell me why! One lasted 135 hrs, one lasted 14 hrs and the 3rd made it 18 hrs before it started sticking!! I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks, Stewart RV4 Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bart Dalton" <Planenutts(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: SSP retro plans and kits
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Retro modification kits and plans are available for the SSP ( Super Six Plus) . This is the Lycoming 540 powered Six. For more info contact: John Nys P.O. Box 205 Owasso, OK 74055 918-272-2504 or 918-272-8551 or Email planenutts(at)worldnet.att.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Hand grip points entering the RV6A?
> (Hal Kempthorne) > writes: > > > >Me again, > > > >One owner told me the fiberglass on the rollbar very soon gets all > >broken up by > >hands gripping as one enters the aircraft. I'd like to make sure mine > >doesn't > >do that. > > > >I tried entering myself and am unsure where one might put hands since > >I don't > >yet have any seat soft parts and had to simulate with scraps of hard > >and soft > >foam. So, where does one grip? This is indeed not a trivial thing. For most passengers, getting up on the wing and then down into a cockpit is a completely foreign task . It is a three step process and I make them stop at each point. First up on the wing. Second over the rail to a sitting position on the top of the back of the seat. Finally the slither down into the seat. On exit it is also a three step process, and tougher the older they are. First haul up to a sitting position on the top of the back seat. Second step over the side to the wing, and third, back off the wing to the stool My fiberglass has survived the first 82 dual rides because I carefully supervise entries, and exits. I tell them where to put their hands on entry, which is on the seat back and on the canopy rails. They will always reach for the thin flimsy fiber glass on the roll bar anyway. I tell them to only use the flat palm of their hand on top of the windscreen. I think the reason this works is I tell them if they grab it, it will slice their hand in two and cause a severe bleeding episode. Upon exit, I always get around to steer them out and encourage them to use the center brace on the windscreen to haul them selves up, with right hand on the canopy rail. They should always pause while sitting on the seat back before lurching out to the wing. Again this allows you to maintain control. I always position myself so I can whack their hand if it grabs the fiber glass. BTW, this is another reason I prefer to use a stool rather than a built in step, so they know to wait til I get there with it . Hope this helps . D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: elect tach
Listers Anyone out there that is using the UMA 2 and 1/4 in elect tach??? I have used both the digital LED tach and the analog one. The Led one was fairly accurate but is difficult too see in bright sunlight. The analog tach was 250 rpm off in the cruise range. Sent it in for calibration and it started sticking!!! Got a new one and although it hasn't stuck, it is off on the cruise end! Feed back appreciated. Stewart RV4 Den. Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Step installation
Check the archives, I believe I posted on this problem about 1.5 years ago. Had to cut and reweld the mothers. Look for messages with my first and last name. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A > I had to do the same thing even though the factory said nobody else had to. > > Pat Kirkpatrick > Rio Rancho NM > > If I place the steps so that they fit flush with the web of > F-623, the tube will protrude out the bottom skin about an inch and the > angle of the step plate will not match the skin. Is the solution just to > raise the step high enough to anchor it somewhere on F-625 baggage floor > rib? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gusndale(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Subject: Re: Step installation
Hello everyone, There may be some variation in how people are attaching the bottom outside baggage floor rib (f-623??) which is leading to fit difficulty with the steps. I installed steps on both sides of my 6A and the flange angles were just right. I did the cutting and fitting for the steps before the bottom or side skins were riveted (but after they were drilled and dimpled to fit). I did cut about 3/8 to 7/16ths off the end of the tubes to make a good fit, but that was in part because I elected to mount the steps with the step flange inside the fuse skin rather than outside for less drag. I also moved the step position back about 3/4 inch so it fit just inside the vertical baggage area brace and then added a vertical .063 angle doubler about 8 inches long to sandwich the step flange against the vertical baggage brace and give additional stiffening to the flange attach area. I made an .032 spacer between the step flange and the fuse side skin to account for the step flange being inside the baggage area vertical brace. Then I riveted the step on per plans except I used flush rivets instead of round headed. On mine the flange angles conformed perfectly with the side skin surfaces in that area. I should give credit to Stan VanGrunsven for this method of attaching the steps. He did this on his 6A and showed me how. It is a little more work, but makes a very clean installation. Regards, Dale Wotring RV6A N244DW Vancouver, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM (Jon Elford)
Subject: Re: Wing skins
> >Hey pre-punched wing guys, > >Visualize the root main wing rib where it attaches to the main spar and >spar flange. This is the rib that is -(3/8) from the -0- reference >mark. The plans show the rib's flange is flush with the end of the spar >flange. Also the skin appears to be flush. Will's notes even mentions >to check the skin to see if it is flush. Ain't no way mine will be >flush. My rib and skin will be aproximately 1/8" from the end(towards >tip) of the spar flange. I've checked the rib web measurements and >everything is right-on. I don't see it as being a problem as long as >skin holes and rib centerlines are ok. > > Any comments?? > >Jerry Calvert >Edmond Ok -6a wings Jerry, If I have one piece of advice, or maybe an "I wish I had done it another way", it would be to measure for the proper position of the main skins at the root of the main spar and mark the rivet centerlines through the skin holes and onto the spar flange. Do this for all the ribs and then transfer this spacing verbatim onto the rear spar, again, carefully determining the position of the main skin at the root. Once this is established, forget about all the other rib spacing measurements on the plans. The whole idea is to get the centerline holes in the properly positioned skins to line up with the centerlines on the ribs. You can measure until you're blue in the face (like I did) and still come up with little spacing discrepencies (like I did). Using the skins as a guide will ensure success. You might take a peek at the rib angle attach bolt holes in the spar flange strips and make sure you will be drilling the bolt holes in the angle near it's centerline. It won't always be perfectly centered, but it's more important to have the rivet holes in the center of the rib than to have the bolt in the center of the angle - IMO. All of this rambling will make more sense as you start to see some pieces going together. You will definitely appreciate the extra effort when the thing is in the jig and you start drilling the skins to the skeleton - trust me! I make no bones about it... I was too LAZY to dig the skins out of the bottom of the crate when I was at that stage and scoured the plans for specs and measured and remeasured (spending twice as much time as just digging the skins out and building my wings). All came out acceptable, but it could have been easier. BTW, I wouldn't worry about the spar flanges and rib flanges being even. Mine aren't... Regards, > > Jon Elford RV6 #25201 Banks, OR Fuel tanks, Fuse soon... Snowmobile coming out of mothballs and using up my time and money..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Towbars
Date: Oct 28, 1998
I have a neat tailwheel towbar that hooks on the tail wheel axle bolt. I eliminates the need for a swivel T/W. I know some frown on it but I pull it out of the hanger by the prop and into the hanger with the t/w towbar. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com www.petroblend.com/dougr > >Hiya all, > >How does one tow an RV around? Do I just fire it up and fly from inside a >hangar etc?? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "albert poon" <albertp(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: tacho plug
Date: Oct 29, 1998
dear listers, i am using the jpi didtal tacho and wont need the tacho drive at the back of my 320 engine. question re the plug is, does it leak anything if it is left uncovered? thanks regards albert ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott E Johnson" <scottj(at)ais.net>
Subject: Re: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Hi Don, I did my last instrument check ride in my RV6A and passed. I would offer the following advice: 1.) Do not go into real IFR conditions before you and your instructor have spent many hours with the hood on in an RV. I found the RV much more responsive than the pipers or skyhawks that I have flown and you could be upside down fairly quickly with only a moment of inattention to your bank instruments ( especially when your going about 200 mph ). 2.) Until you have many hours of actual IFR in the RV6A, I would not recommend going over 140 mph. This is because the roll rate is substanially slower at 140 mph than it is at 200 mph and turbulence will be much easier to handle. 3.) Because I find the turn coordinator hard to read in moderate turbulence, I have a vacuum attitude indicator and an electric attitude indicator for safety. Scott Johnson scottj(at)ais.net From: John B. Abell <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 10:22 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR training in an RV-6A? > >Don Corbitt wrote: > >> >> I suspect I know the answer to this, but is there anyone who _doesn't_ think >> it's a bad idea to do some or all of my IFR training in a newly acquired >> RV-6A? My CFII is willing to instruct in any "safe plane", and I can do >> some work in a club 172 and other in an RV. >> >> FYI, this is what I'm looking for: >> >> ** Needs ** >> RV-6A >> Metal prop (occasional encounters with rain here in soggy Seattle) >> Minimalist IFR panel >> Approval for IFR use >> >> ** Wants ** >> CS prop >> "Tall Pilot Mods" (I'm 6'5") >> autopilot >> White/Blue paint (co-pilot request :-) >> everything :-) > > > >> Answering my own question above, I've heard that IMC flying without >> autopilot in an RV is an invitation to go inverted. That sounds bad. So my >> question is, is this guaranteed to be a bad idea, or just probably a bad >> idea :-) > >Hi Don, > >I just completed my instrument training in April '97. I have about 200 approaches >now and about 110 hours of instrument time, almost all of which is in Piper >Archers and Warriors. On the other hand, I have only about 21 hours in an RV-6A, >the airplane of an acquaintance. Of those 21 hours, I have only about 10 minutes >of actual instrument time. Please judge my comments accordingly. > >Flying in IMC is no more an invitation to go inverted than it is any other time, >IMO. Turbulence makes a busy environment all the more challenging, obviously, but >I don;t think it's a lot different from turbulence in VMC. Others may not agree. > >During my instrument training, I would not have been allowed to fly approaches on >autopilot. My guess is that your instructor will not allow it either; I hope not, >anyway. I think having an autopilot during instrument training would serve only >to acquaint one with its use; it would not help you through the training. >Moreover, YOU DO NOT WANT TO BECOME DEPENDENT ON AN AUTOPILOT FOR MAKING >INSTRUMENT APPROACHES. > >Using an RV-6A as an instrument training platform seems like a good idea to me. >In my limited RV-6A experience, I found the RV-6A very little different from the >Pipers from an instrument flight perspective, and I wouldn't hesitate to fly an >instrument approach in an RV-6A; in fact, my own RV-6A panel is heavily loaded >with IFR goodies. The one drawback to flying an approach in a stick-equipped >airplane is that you lose the control yoke as a place to put an approach plate, >and you can't very well fly with a two-page size kneeboard because there's no room >for it between you and the stick. As a result, it's more difficult to get and >stay organized in the intense, single-pilot IFR environment. I will probably wind >up using two smaller kneeboards, one for note-taking, and one for area or low >altitude chart or approach plate. It's going to take some careful management in >an environment that is constantly busy, especially in turbulence. A flight suit >with pockets in the lower legs would probably be helpful. So would a "glove >compartment," but I don't have room for one. > >I say go for it. It seems likely to force you into better cockpit organization, >and that can't be anything but beneficial. But forget about the autopilot until >much later. > >You'll no doubt, . . . no doubt, get a lot more advice about this from others on >the list with far more IFR experience than I. > >Good luck and best wishes, > >Jack Abell >Los Angeles >RV-6A N333JA (Reserved) > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net>
Subject: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Date: Oct 28, 1998
Hi Guys and Gals: Very interesting day today. Had a chance to fly in a newly completed RV6A equipped with the 72FM propeller and thought some of you would be interested in some numbers. RV6A Serial # 23678 built by Holmer Rogers of Revelstoke B.C. Empty wieght 1053 pounds, equipped with a fuel injected 0360 Lycoming A4M. Engine has 245 hrs since factory reman. with differential readings of 77-78 over 80 on all four cylinders. Engine is equipped with electronic ignition. This is a very clean aircraft with a lot of attention payed to detail and is well rigged. With Roger doing the flying and me pushing the pencil this is what we came up with. Surface temp. was 45 F with no wind and a elevation of 1720 ft. Static run showed 2220 RPM and 27.7 in. manifold press. Aircraft was fueled to give us a 1600 lb. gross wieght. Some of the following figures may be off a small fraction but are reasonably close. Take-off starting with full power from brake release we were airborne in 12 seconds. First climb to 8000 ft. was done at full throttle and 120 mph indicated. 3000 - 26.3 mp and 2350 RPM . Initial rate of climb was 1600 fpm 4000 - 25.4 mp and 2350 RPM 5000 - 24.4 mp and 2350 RPM 6000 - 23.7 mp and 2340 RPM 7000 - 22.7 mp and 2330 RPM 8000 - 22.0 mp and 2320 RPM rate of climb here was still 1200 fpm Leveling of at 8200 ft and flying into 8000 ft RPM quickly built to the red line of 2700 RPM. With everything stabilized power had to be reduced to 21 mp to keep from running over 2700. The indicated airspeed at this point was 190 mph. Second climb was done at 25 in.mp and 120 to 6000 with 2280 RPM showing going through 4000 ft. at 1200 fpm. Leveling at 6000 and maintaining 2500 rpm which required 20.5 in mp we had at true airspeed of 182 mph. This was verified with a hand held gps flying all four headings. At a power setting of 2400 rpm and around 19 in. mp the fuel burn was 7.2 US gallons per hour taken from the fuel flow meter. All cruise power settings were done with the mixture leaned to peak minus 50 degrees. My RV6 is constant speed equipped and is 55 lbs heavier. With the exception of the slower initial acceleration on take-off and slightly longer run and slightly lower initial rate of climb I would be hard pressed to keep up with Roger's aircraft. Jim and I are just starting our fuselage for the 6A and after today's experience will probaably go with the fixed pitch prop on our 180 hp engine rather than a constant speed as planned. If one has special requirements such as short field work, high airstrips or floats I would stay with a constant speed. All in all my first impression is that Sensenich have really done their homework on this one and have given us a chance to have almost constant speed performance at a saving of almost 4000.00 US. Another interesting thing happened during our testing. Got a bit too engrossed in the numbers and let a tank run dry. Gets pretty quiet in a hurry. But what I learned from this was after we switched tanks and boost pump on there was a fair delay in getting a restart. It looks to me with this particular fuel system that a blown tank below 1000 ft could prove quite interesting. Hope this is of some interest. Eustace Bowhay C-GHAY 20383 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: elect tach
On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote: > > Listers > Anyone out there that is using the UMA 2 and 1/4 in > elect tach??? I have used both the digital LED tach > and the analog one. The Led one was fairly accurate > but is difficult too see in bright sunlight. > The analog tach was 250 rpm off in the cruise range. > Sent it in for calibration and it started sticking!!! Got a new > one and although it hasn't stuck, it is off on the cruise end! > Feed back appreciated. > Stewart RV4 Den. Co. I just had two UMA airspeed indicators and a UMA VSI fail in the first 15 hours of operation. All three showed case leaks. We took one ASI and the VSI apart and the universal comment was, "gee these things are cheesy." They are going back to be replaced by more, uh, substantial instruments. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane (916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1 (916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MacBooze(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: -8 Wing Alignment Holes
-8 Wing Builders The wing main spar jig alignment holes are dimpled not drilled. Ive found the best time to drill these holes (3/32) is before the main ribs are riveted to the spars. FWIW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Weigh In.......RV-6Q
Thanks for the infor, Denis I suspected that with another body in the airplane to move the CG back a bit, I would probably have adequate trim with full flaps, but nice to hear its true. Also, glad to hear that what I have heard about forward CG = Less Airspeed due to additional down load required on Horz stab to keep nose up doesn't necessarily knock down your speed that much. Yes, I don't intend to exceed 1800 lbs specially given the nose gear problem. Took mine off (a pain) an polished it to a mirror finish and could detect no cracks under magnifying glass, none of the local FBO shops I contacted did magniflux (hard to believe) so I am going to try to find a dye kit - just to make certain my eye ball did not miss any cracks. Ed Denis Walsh wrote: > > > Anderson Ed wrote: > > > > > Gary, I am certain you will get lots of suggestions as to how to > > scientifically go about this - considering G loading, weight etc., and I > > am not qualified to offer anything there. Just wanted to let you know > > my RV-6A came in empty at 1170 lbs, with CG at forward limit and I have > > the certification for a gross weight of 1800 lbs which is about 8% over > > the 1650 lbs that VAn Lists for the RV-6A. I have seen some RV-6As > > gross limit set at 1900 lbs. Clearly flying at a 1800 gross adds > > additional stress and I would be very gentle in the landing phase at > > those weights - don't want to drop it in and splay the gear {:>} > > > > The only two effects I have noticed thus far (only sixth flight) due to > > heavier weight and forward CG is that with full flaps (40 degrees<100 > > mph)I do not have quite enough trim authority to trim it level with the > > weight at 1490 (full fuel and only me). Also, my indicated stall speed > > at that weigh was 60 MPH. Flaps only seem to make a knot or two > > difference. On the other hand the aircraft is very stable with the > > forward CG. I am also told that the additional drag caused by more down > > force required on the horizontal stab may knock off a few MPH of top > > cruise speed. Have not yet expanded the performance envelop to that > > area yet. Good luck on your fight, I had never landed or taken off in a > > RV and even though I had some oil temp problems that limited my first > > flight to once around the traffic pattern, there was no problem flying > > the aircraft - its an honest flying bird. > > > > Ed > > > > These experiences fairly well mirror mine with N133DW, RV-6A which is now 1125 > empty. It has O-360 A1A, C/S, slider. I certified it at 1840 max gross weight, > based on a utility est of 4.4 g limit. This was based on a comment from the > list! Of course I did all the calculations to be sure the CG was within > limits. The close one will probably be landing with two people and max baggaage, > empty fuel. It has worked for me, and as a practical matter I do not usually > exceed 1800. On solo flights where some light acro is required (which is > frequent) I put my tool kit in the baggage compartment which helps me keep from > dishing out on rolls. The trim at limit on landing only occurs when solo without > the tool kit. with two people there is lots of trim available. The problem > there is limiting the sink rate, not cg. BTW if i were starting over I would > definitely look at putting the battery in the bag comp and sacrifice a little > capacity in favor of a more agile cg. > > Finally, I believe "what you were told about more down force on elevator reducing > top speed..." is probably wrong as my elev is still down during cruise, which > has been adequate to keep up with or pass other 6s. It is 197.5 MPH at 75%, 8000 > feet. this is .5 MPH faster than Van advertises, but I give him the benefit on > measurement accuracy, although I have tested it many times. > > D Walsh Back in the air after NDI on nose gear (435 landings) ( see other post > on gear comments) > > x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 > x-mozilla-html: FALSE > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: weird altimeter
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Hal, If the problem is Common to both encoder and altimeter, then your problem is probably static port related.... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > From: halk(at)sybase.com [SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 7:08 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: weird altimeter > > > Just from the point of view of "problem solving" - it looks as tho the > altimeter > the > same cause? > > hal > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Wing skins
In a message dated 10/28/98 11:40:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM writes: << You can measure until you're blue in the face (like I did) and still come up with little spacing discrepencies (like I did). Using the skins as a guide will ensure success >> I bought a peice of 2"X2"X10' hardware store aluminum angle and clecoed the inboard and outboard skins together at the one prepunched overlap hole. Then I clamped the angle to one edge of the skin and drilled 3/32' in diameter holes where the rib holes were in the edge. Now clamp the angle to the spar after locating the inboard rib and you have all the centers for top and bottom flanges on both the main spar and rear spar for both wings. Saves lots of measuring and made me feel secure at drilling the ribs to the spars. My neighbor just checked the angle against his skins and it fit perfectly (CNC is repeatable!), so the angle has been well worth the few bucks it cost. Bernie Kerr, 6A fuselage, SE Fla ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Wing skins
You are correct, sir. Press on. That slight misfit will be hidden by the fairing and won't affect your flight characteristics at all. PatK - RV-6A jerry calvert wrote: > > Visualize the root main wing rib where it attaches to the main spar and > spar flange. This is the rib that is -(3/8) from the -0- reference > mark. The plans show the rib's flange is flush with the end of the spar > flange. Also the skin appears to be flush. Will's notes even mentions > to check the skin to see if it is flush. Ain't no way mine will be > flush. My rib and skin will be aproximately 1/8" from the end(towards > tip) of the spar flange. I've checked the rib web measurements and > everything is right-on. I don't see it as being a problem as long as > skin holes and rib centerlines are ok. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: elect tach
Hi Stew, I used the electric analog dia 2 1/4 inch tachometer which goes to 7000 rpm (using a Mazda Wankle as the power plant) and have about 30 hrs on it with no problems. What signal source are you using to drive the electronic tachs?? Ed RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Listers > Anyone out there that is using the UMA 2 and 1/4 in > elect tach??? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO" <lewisth(at)pentagon.af.mil>
Subject: Weigh In.......RV-6Q
Date: Oct 29, 1998
>could detect no cracks under magnifying glass, none of the local FBO >shops I contacted did magniflux (hard to believe) so I am going to try >to find a dye kit - just to make certain my eye ball did not miss any >cracks. McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com) has a dye penetrant kit (Spotcheck Jr made by Magnaflux) for $24.92 on page 1782. I've found McMaster is very economical on shipping... usually $2-$3 for a light shipment. Tim Lewis RV-6AQ N47TD (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Wing Kit for sale
I'll find out and let you know. George Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Weigh In.......RV-6Q
Thanks Tim, e mail about my Wankel powered RV-6A at Manassas. Well I now have 6 flights on it. Ed Lewis, Timothy, MAJ, AF/XOIWO wrote: > > > McMaster Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com) has a dye penetrant kit (Spotcheck > Jr made by Magnaflux) for $24.92 on page 1782. I've found McMaster is very > economical on shipping... usually $2-$3 for a light shipment. > > Tim Lewis > RV-6AQ N47TD (reserved) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: elect tach
Ed and Listers, I am using the pulse generator driven by the tach drive on the engine with the UMA analog tach. Stew RV4 Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Hand grip points entering the RV6A?
> I formed a piece of aluminum that, with practice, could be made to fit the > rollbar. Anyone done that? > > hal If you look in the June/July '97 issue of the RVator, it has a very good article on fabricating the forward windshield fairing, rollover fairing, and aft slider skirts all out of aluminum. I followed the directions in the article, and am very pleased with the results. I used a piece of .040 for the rollover fairing, and it's stout enough to be used as a handhold for entering and exiting the flight deck. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV Broken Arrow, Ok MLaboyteau(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Joe Belany <jsbelany(at)win.bright.net>
Subject: Re: wig-wag flashers
I do all of the electronics for our police vehicles in the City of Ashland, after trying several brands of flashers we have started using the "Traffic Flasher" from Gals, Inc.. These units have proven very reliable and work in all extremes. We run our vehicles for 2 years and I would estimate that we change a bulb a year. I think that is fairly good bulb life considering we put our lights through a lot of use, maybe averaging an hour a day/365 days a year. The unit runs $39.99, Gal's number is (800)477-7766. I do not have the part number, but I can get it for anyone that wants it. One advantage of this system is you can wire a single switch for the lights and one for the flasher so you can have either both lights on steady or they will alternate. These units are also extremely easy to mount! Just my 2 cents..... Joe Belany RV-6 Empenage Terry Jantzi wrote: > > Mike Thompson wrote: > > > Sounds like something I've been interested in since seeing a similar setup > > on another aircraft in a local pattern. _Very_ noticable. > > > > Have you any feel (or other's experience) for what such use does to the > > life expectantcy of the bulb? A light bulb generally "burns out" when > > turned on from the current surge. Repeated cycles seems like would reduce > > life. > > I don't know what the life of the lamp will be. At 1.9 flashes/sec the > filament does not turn completely off. I always thought that cold starts > were the reason for decreased life. The lamps are rated for 4000 hours > already. I would even accept 50% of that :) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Clayton Smith <clayfly(at)iquest.net>
Subject: RV-4 Strobe Tail Light Wiring
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Have searched the database. Found related questions/answers, but have not found the answers to these particular questions. I'm wiring the Whelan strobe to the top of the vert stab of my RV-4 and need to know: 1) Where are RV-4 builders putting their power supplies? I'm planning to use a 180hp w/ constant speed prop, so I can take the weight further aft, but the power supply is a 1.7 lb. brick. Don't want it too far back. 2) What size wire do I use between power supply and strobe? The Whelan product came with diddley for documentation. Don't know what the strobe will require for power. 3) Should I use shielded cable between power supply and strobe? 4) The power supply has a 3-pin connector with one pin marked (anode), another marked (cathode), and the third marked (trigger), but the strobe has only two wires and a two-wire connector. Hmmm. So, how does the power supply get wired to the strobe? 5) Where can I order these 2 and 3-pin connectors? Thanks in advance for your wisdom! Clay Smith - Attaching tail feathers to fuselage clayfly(at)iquest.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: elect tach
Stew, I am using the tach signal off of one of my ignition modules (Mazda) and the UMA Tach I have works fine with it. Could be a mismatch between the pulse generator and the gauge in your case. Ed RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Ed and Listers, > I am using the pulse generator driven by the tach drive > on the engine with the UMA analog tach. > Stew RV4 Co. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com>
Subject: Landing Gear
Folks, After getting my "Inspect your nose gear" letter from Van's, I was prompted to think that we should perform similar procedures on our Main Gear just for safety's sake. I plan to! My opinion - open to others, Ralph Capen RV6A Dallas Empennage waiting to reduce my mortgage count by one! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
I would like to know how, with a fuel totalizer onboard, how a tank is let run dry? It seems to me that this is EXTREMELY serious business, and should never under any circumstances be allowed to happen. I have heard of some pilots who routinely allow a tank to run dry before switching to 'get maximum range'. Amazingly, these are often very experienced pilots. Everything I have read says to never do this. Lets be careful out there! Just my opinion. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > >Hi Guys and Gals: > >Very interesting day today. Had a chance to fly in a newly completed >RV6A >equipped with the 72FM propeller and thought some of you would be >interested in some numbers. > >RV6A Serial # 23678 built by Holmer Rogers of Revelstoke B.C. Empty >wieght >1053 pounds, equipped with a fuel injected 0360 Lycoming A4M. Engine >has >245 hrs since factory reman. with differential readings of 77-78 over >80 on >all four cylinders. Engine is equipped with electronic ignition. This >is a >very clean aircraft with a lot of attention payed to detail and is >well >rigged. With Roger doing the flying and me pushing the pencil this is >what >we came up with. > >Surface temp. was 45 F with no wind and a elevation of 1720 ft. Static >run >showed 2220 RPM and 27.7 in. manifold press. Aircraft was fueled to >give us >a 1600 lb. gross wieght. Some of the following figures may be off a >small >fraction but are reasonably close. > >Take-off starting with full power from brake release we were airborne >in 12 >seconds. > >First climb to 8000 ft. was done at full throttle and 120 mph >indicated. >3000 - 26.3 mp and 2350 RPM . Initial rate of climb was 1600 fpm >4000 - 25.4 mp and 2350 RPM >5000 - 24.4 mp and 2350 RPM >6000 - 23.7 mp and 2340 RPM >7000 - 22.7 mp and 2330 RPM >8000 - 22.0 mp and 2320 RPM rate of climb here was still 1200 fpm > >Leveling of at 8200 ft and flying into 8000 ft RPM quickly built to >the >red line of 2700 RPM. With everything stabilized power had to be >reduced to >21 mp to keep from running over 2700. The indicated airspeed at this >point >was 190 mph. > >Second climb was done at 25 in.mp and 120 to 6000 with 2280 RPM >showing >going through 4000 ft. at 1200 fpm. Leveling at 6000 and maintaining >2500 >rpm which required 20.5 in mp we had at true airspeed of 182 mph. This >was >verified with a hand held gps flying all four headings. At a power >setting >of 2400 rpm and around 19 in. mp the fuel burn was 7.2 US gallons per >hour >taken from the fuel flow meter. All cruise power settings were done >with >the mixture leaned to peak minus 50 degrees. > >My RV6 is constant speed equipped and is 55 lbs heavier. With the >exception >of the slower initial acceleration on take-off and slightly longer >run and >slightly lower initial rate of climb I would be hard pressed to keep >up >with Roger's aircraft. Jim and I are just starting our fuselage for >the 6A >and after today's experience will probaably go with the fixed pitch >prop on >our 180 hp engine rather than a constant speed as planned. If one has >special requirements such as short field work, high airstrips or >floats I >would stay with a constant speed. > >All in all my first impression is that Sensenich have really done >their >homework on this one and have given us a chance to have almost >constant >speed performance at a saving of almost 4000.00 US. > >Another interesting thing happened during our testing. Got a bit too >engrossed in the numbers and let a tank run dry. Gets pretty quiet in >a >hurry. But what I learned from this was after we switched tanks and >boost >pump on there was a fair delay in getting a restart. It looks to me >with >this particular fuel system that a blown tank below 1000 ft could >prove >quite interesting. > >Hope this is of some interest. > >Eustace Bowhay C-GHAY 20383 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: wig-wag flashers
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Joe; How about a part # on that flasher? Sounds like a good deal to me. Will this handle two 100watt lights? Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > >I do all of the electronics for our police vehicles in the City of >Ashland, after >trying several brands of flashers we have started using the "Traffic >Flasher" from >Gals, Inc.. These units have proven very reliable and work in all >extremes. We >run our vehicles for 2 years and I would estimate that we change a >bulb a year. I >think that is fairly good bulb life considering we put our lights >through a lot of >use, maybe averaging an hour a day/365 days a year. The unit runs >$39.99, Gal's >number is (800)477-7766. I do not have the part number, but I can get >it for >anyone that wants it. > >One advantage of this system is you can wire a single switch for the >lights and >one for the flasher so you can have either both lights on steady or >they will >alternate. These units are also extremely easy to mount! Just my 2 >cents..... > >Joe Belany >RV-6 Empenage > >Terry Jantzi wrote: > >> >> Mike Thompson wrote: >> >> > Sounds like something I've been interested in since seeing a >similar setup >> > on another aircraft in a local pattern. _Very_ noticable. >> > >> > Have you any feel (or other's experience) for what such use does >to the >> > life expectantcy of the bulb? A light bulb generally "burns out" >when >> > turned on from the current surge. Repeated cycles seems like >would reduce >> > life. >> >> I don't know what the life of the lamp will be. At 1.9 flashes/sec >the >> filament does not turn completely off. I always thought that cold >starts >> were the reason for decreased life. The lamps are rated for 4000 >hours >> already. I would even accept 50% of that :) >> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Surprise! (burning a tank dry)
> >Another interesting thing happened during our testing. Got a bit too >engrossed in the numbers and let a tank run dry. Gets pretty quiet in a >hurry. But what I learned from this was after we switched tanks and boost >pump on there was a fair delay in getting a restart. It looks to me with >this particular fuel system that a blown tank below 1000 ft could prove >quite interesting. Perhaps the most interesting feature of my AFA AV-10 engine instrument is when it says very politely in my headphones, "Warning, fuel pressure low." I say a bad word for forgetting to switch tanks sooner, flip the fuel selector, and the engine never misses a beat. Sure beats the snot out of the sudden deceleration as the low fuel pressure warning. > >I would like to know how, with a fuel totalizer onboard, how a tank is >let run dry? Well, it is a *totalizer* and tells you what you have left in all the tanks, not just the one you are burning at the moment. Unless you are keeping a fuel log during the flight, your totalizer isn't going to let you know. >It seems to me that this is EXTREMELY serious business, and >should never under any circumstances be allowed to happen. I have heard >of some pilots who routinely allow a tank to run dry before switching to >'get maximum range'. Amazingly, these are often very experienced pilots. >Everything I have read says to never do this. Lets be careful out there! I am one of those people who periodically lets one tank run dry under controlled conditions. I don't trust fuel guages but I trust them enough to let them worry me. So periodically burning a tank dry lets me see how the fuel guage behaves when the tank nears empty. I have experienced a situation where a guage used to indicate just below the 'E' mark and then six months later became empty at just above the 'E' mark. Nothing had changed in the interim. The aircraft had bladder-type fuel tanks so perhaps the bladder shifted slightly thus changing the float position when resting on the bottom of the bladder. Having a fuel pressure guage that alerts me to the first couple of bubbles now lets me do this without actually starving the engine and generating that emotionally invigorating sudden deceleration feeling. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
> I have heard >of some pilots who routinely allow a tank to run dry before switching to >'get maximum range'. Amazingly, these are often very experienced pilots. >Everything I have read says to never do this. Lets be careful out there! > Just my opinion. >Von Alexander >RV-8 N41VA >N41VA(at)juno.com Von, My uncle, who is a retired United pilot with 20000+ hours routinely runs a tank dry in his C180. He has a bad habit of not informing the uninitiated about this before it happens. Sick sense of humor I guess. The silence is deafening! Certainly not anything I will ever plan on doing. Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson)
Subject: Re: Hand grip points entering the RV6A?
This windshield fairing thread is interesting to me. I am wondering if I need to re-think my plans for this area. I have traveled to fly-ins in Van's planes and done time in their booth, and was convinved, after seeing what the average flat-lander could do to a nice aluminum fairing, that a good thick fiberglass fairing would be the way to go. I am thinking in particular of the fairing on the RV-6T (now the RV-9), which is less than .040, but still I would think that fiberglass would be stronger than an an equivalent thickness of aluminum for this application, not be likely to get permanently deformed, and be easier to form to the bubble. Not so? What do y'all think? Would you have to build the fiberglass up too much to provide a reasonable amount of strength to guard against the errant grabber? I'd just as soon not have to hover like a mother hen over every person who gets into the plane. Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish) Portland, OR http://www.edt.com/homewing randall(at)edt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Wing skins
In a message dated 10/29/98 7:18:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, patk(at)megsinet.net writes: << . Ain't no way mine will be > flush. My rib and skin will be aproximately 1/8" from the end(towards > tip) of the spar flange >> This is common with the 3 prepunched kits I looked at recently. Bernie Kerr ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Date: Oct 29, 1998
With a carbureted engine, the risk is very small. It is only when you have to re-prime a fuel injection pump that problems may arise. If you are not surprised by the quiet, there is nothing wrong with running a tank dry. Re-starts are not that difficult. How do you think Bob Hoover does his dead engines routine?? If you have never run a tank dry, then you are in trouble. The re-start procedure may be different than a normal start. But if you know what to do from experience, it is no big deal. I remember flying on an empty tank is a Cessna 140 for 10 miles. The engine would quit, I would tip up the wing, refill the carb bowl and fly another 30 seconds in level flight. It would quit and I'd tipped it up again and again until I got tired of the routine. I then switched tanks and flew on. Running a tank dry is NOT a problem if you have enough altitude. The surprise of running dry and not knowing how to restart is the problem. Just think, most first starts of the day are with a dry bowl if you used the idle cutoff. With your low winged RV, you will need to fill the carb bowl with a boost pump. When the prop is turning in the air, your normal pump should reprime without a problem after switching tanks. After all with your fancy gages, the fuel line could plug, the fuel valve might not switch, but you still have to make a restart. The 1998 Oshkosh Grand Champion Long-eze this fall made a forced landing because the electrically controlled valve didn't work. Wiped off the landing gear. You might try shutting off the gas sometime and see if you can fly on the primer. Running out of fuel in a tank is NO BIG DEAL. Not know what to do, if it happens IS A BIG DEAL. Ask Vern Jobst sometime. He ran out of fuel and had three tanks full. Happened in front of everybody at Oshkosh. From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 12:56 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Sensenich 72FM Propeller > >I would like to know how, with a fuel totalizer onboard, how a tank is >let run dry? It seems to me that this is EXTREMELY serious business, and >should never under any circumstances be allowed to happen. I have heard >of some pilots who routinely allow a tank to run dry before switching to >'get maximum range'. Amazingly, these are often very experienced pilots. >Everything I have read says to never do this. Lets be careful out there! > Just my opinion. >Von Alexander >RV-8 N41VA >N41VA(at)juno.com >writes: >> >>Hi Guys and Gals: >> >>Very interesting day today. Had a chance to fly in a newly completed >>RV6A >>equipped with the 72FM propeller and thought some of you would be >>interested in some numbers. >> >>RV6A Serial # 23678 built by Holmer Rogers of Revelstoke B.C. Empty >>wieght >>1053 pounds, equipped with a fuel injected 0360 Lycoming A4M. Engine >>has >>245 hrs since factory reman. with differential readings of 77-78 over >>80 on >>all four cylinders. Engine is equipped with electronic ignition. This >>is a >>very clean aircraft with a lot of attention payed to detail and is >>well >>rigged. With Roger doing the flying and me pushing the pencil this is >>what >>we came up with. >> >>Surface temp. was 45 F with no wind and a elevation of 1720 ft. Static >>run >>showed 2220 RPM and 27.7 in. manifold press. Aircraft was fueled to >>give us >>a 1600 lb. gross wieght. Some of the following figures may be off a >>small >>fraction but are reasonably close. >> >>Take-off starting with full power from brake release we were airborne >>in 12 >>seconds. >> >>First climb to 8000 ft. was done at full throttle and 120 mph >>indicated. >>3000 - 26.3 mp and 2350 RPM . Initial rate of climb was 1600 fpm >>4000 - 25.4 mp and 2350 RPM >>5000 - 24.4 mp and 2350 RPM >>6000 - 23.7 mp and 2340 RPM >>7000 - 22.7 mp and 2330 RPM >>8000 - 22.0 mp and 2320 RPM rate of climb here was still 1200 fpm >> >>Leveling of at 8200 ft and flying into 8000 ft RPM quickly built to >>the >>red line of 2700 RPM. With everything stabilized power had to be >>reduced to >>21 mp to keep from running over 2700. The indicated airspeed at this >>point >>was 190 mph. >> >>Second climb was done at 25 in.mp and 120 to 6000 with 2280 RPM >>showing >>going through 4000 ft. at 1200 fpm. Leveling at 6000 and maintaining >>2500 >>rpm which required 20.5 in mp we had at true airspeed of 182 mph. This >>was >>verified with a hand held gps flying all four headings. At a power >>setting >>of 2400 rpm and around 19 in. mp the fuel burn was 7.2 US gallons per >>hour >>taken from the fuel flow meter. All cruise power settings were done >>with >>the mixture leaned to peak minus 50 degrees. >> >>My RV6 is constant speed equipped and is 55 lbs heavier. With the >>exception >>of the slower initial acceleration on take-off and slightly longer >>run and >>slightly lower initial rate of climb I would be hard pressed to keep >>up >>with Roger's aircraft. Jim and I are just starting our fuselage for >>the 6A >>and after today's experience will probaably go with the fixed pitch >>prop on >>our 180 hp engine rather than a constant speed as planned. If one has >>special requirements such as short field work, high airstrips or >>floats I >>would stay with a constant speed. >> >>All in all my first impression is that Sensenich have really done >>their >>homework on this one and have given us a chance to have almost >>constant >>speed performance at a saving of almost 4000.00 US. >> >>Another interesting thing happened during our testing. Got a bit too >>engrossed in the numbers and let a tank run dry. Gets pretty quiet in >>a >>hurry. But what I learned from this was after we switched tanks and >>boost >>pump on there was a fair delay in getting a restart. It looks to me >>with >>this particular fuel system that a blown tank below 1000 ft could >>prove >>quite interesting. >> >>Hope this is of some interest. >> >>Eustace Bowhay C-GHAY 20383 >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Surprise! (burning a tank dry)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Sound like a very nice device... which could fail! Still need to.. 1. establish a guide 2. check you fuel system 3. Check carb heat 4. Check your mags 5. Pick out a landing site 6. Try your primer. 7. Tighten you seat belt 8. Pray From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 2:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Surprise! (burning a tank dry) > >> >>Another interesting thing happened during our testing. Got a bit too >>engrossed in the numbers and let a tank run dry. Gets pretty quiet in a >>hurry. But what I learned from this was after we switched tanks and boost >>pump on there was a fair delay in getting a restart. It looks to me with >>this particular fuel system that a blown tank below 1000 ft could prove >>quite interesting. > >Perhaps the most interesting feature of my AFA AV-10 engine instrument is >when it says very politely in my headphones, "Warning, fuel pressure low." >I say a bad word for forgetting to switch tanks sooner, flip the fuel >selector, and the engine never misses a beat. Sure beats the snot out of >the sudden deceleration as the low fuel pressure warning. > >> >>I would like to know how, with a fuel totalizer onboard, how a tank is >>let run dry? > >Well, it is a *totalizer* and tells you what you have left in all the >tanks, not just the one you are burning at the moment. Unless you are >keeping a fuel log during the flight, your totalizer isn't going to let you >know. > >>It seems to me that this is EXTREMELY serious business, and >>should never under any circumstances be allowed to happen. I have heard >>of some pilots who routinely allow a tank to run dry before switching to >>'get maximum range'. Amazingly, these are often very experienced pilots. >>Everything I have read says to never do this. Lets be careful out there! > >I am one of those people who periodically lets one tank run dry under >controlled conditions. I don't trust fuel guages but I trust them enough >to let them worry me. So periodically burning a tank dry lets me see how >the fuel guage behaves when the tank nears empty. I have experienced a >situation where a guage used to indicate just below the 'E' mark and then >six months later became empty at just above the 'E' mark. Nothing had >changed in the interim. The aircraft had bladder-type fuel tanks so >perhaps the bladder shifted slightly thus changing the float position when >resting on the bottom of the bladder. > >Having a fuel pressure guage that alerts me to the first couple of bubbles >now lets me do this without actually starving the engine and generating >that emotionally invigorating sudden deceleration feeling. > > >Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies >brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 >http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM>
Subject: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
News-Software: UReply 3.1 In a previous message, it was written: > >After all with your fancy gages, the fuel line could plug, the fuel valve >might not switch, but you still have to make a restart. The 1998 Oshkosh >Grand Champion Long-eze this fall made a forced landing because the >electrically controlled valve didn't work. Wiped off the landing gear. To spin off from a previous thread, I'm thinking of ways to clean up my -6 cockpit for maximum space. Electric flaps. Side-mounted throttle quadrant. Electric fuel switching (!?). Then I read this. I've had an electric tank switch (relay) in my truck for years and no failure. I know it only takes once in an aircraft to ruin the day, but what's the experience of failure rate? I guess I could rig back-up manual plumbing... Perhaps I have missed conventional wisdom: "Switch fuel tanks manually!"? Mike Thompson Austin, TX -6 emp done, wings soon, fuse in my dreams! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
NOT TO MENTION THE DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE FROM SHOCK COOLING INSTANT 0 RPM TO CRUISE POWER WHO ARE WE REALLY KIDDING HERE PAT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Ammeter and shunt question
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Listers, I've begun wiring and am trying to work my way through some of the initial details of getting started. While looking at schematics and notes, I found that I may, or may not, need a shunt for my ammeter. I know that some ammeters have internal shunts. How does one know if the ammeter has an internal shunt or needs an external? Mine did not come with one; but, we know that many things do not come with everything needed to get them up and running. I have a Mitchell D1-211-5106 60 amp ammeter that I ordered from A/S. Unlike one of the other ammeters that showed a shunt, this one didn't. Can someone tell me if this one is internal or external? Nothing on the gauge does. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Still hanging parts on engine and firewall.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Strobe Tail Light Wiring
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Clay, I have this system mounted on top of my RV-4 tail. You are right about the lack of documentation. However, I think it should have come with an assembled cable from the power supply to the strobe. I just had to install one of the two connectors. The connector was adequately documented as to which wire goes where. Did you order the strobe from Van's? I mounted my power supply aft of the baggage floor next to the elevator bell crank. The supplied cable was just barely long enough. With a constant speed prop you may want to mount it at the base of the tail under the fiberglass fairing. I have heard of guys using this location. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraigst(at)ionet.net RV-4 64ST mounting remote oil cooler > >I'm wiring the Whelan strobe to the top of the vert stab of my RV-4 and >need to know: >1) Where are RV-4 builders putting their power supplies? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Vari-Eze have spate of manual fuel valves that froze. They had a plastic spool which would swell. The brass also corrodes and sticks. Some times people break off the handle they stick so tight. On a plane that has to switch tanks (low wings), making sure that the fuel selector rotates easily should be part of your preflight. From: Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 4:13 PM Subject: Electric Fuel Switches, was RV-List: Sensenich 72FM Propeller > >In a previous message, it was written: >> >>After all with your fancy gages, the fuel line could plug, the fuel valve >>might not switch, but you still have to make a restart. The 1998 Oshkosh >>Grand Champion Long-eze this fall made a forced landing because the >>electrically controlled valve didn't work. Wiped off the landing gear. > >To spin off from a previous thread, I'm thinking of ways to clean up my >-6 cockpit for maximum space. Electric flaps. Side-mounted throttle >quadrant. Electric fuel switching (!?). Then I read this. >I've had an electric tank switch (relay) in my truck for years and no >failure. I know it only takes once in an aircraft to ruin the day, but >what's the experience of failure rate? I guess I could rig back-up manual >plumbing... >Perhaps I have missed conventional wisdom: "Switch fuel tanks manually!"? > >Mike Thompson >Austin, TX >-6 emp done, wings soon, fuse in my dreams! > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Date: Oct 29, 1998
On this subject, some of you might have attended one of Burt Rutan's forums at this years Oshkosh . . . wups, sorry . . . Air Adventure, or whatever it is now called. Apparently the current thinking on John Denver's accident is that he had to switch fuel tanks . . . the switch was stuck (they had to use vise grip pliers to turn this) . . . on his EZ the switch was positioned over a shoulder . . . as he struggled to turn it the opposite foot kicked in a rudder, the plane rolled at low altitude and hit the "water". To make matters worse, there was a slew of rocks just below the surface of the with RV's . . . but with discussions on running fuel tanks dry, etc. sometimes we need to be more than cautious. No one plans on an accident. But they happen. Anything that can be done to simplify, make fool proof, make obvious, etc. etc. etc. might someday be that one item that prevents the accident. Rick Jory Highlands Ranch, CO Potential RV-8a builder From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Switches, was RV-List: Sensenich 72FM Propeller > >Vari-Eze have spate of manual fuel valves that froze. They had a plastic >spool which would swell. The brass also corrodes and sticks. Some times >people break off the handle they stick so tight. On a plane that has to >switch tanks (low wings), making sure that the fuel selector rotates easily >should be part of your preflight. > >From: Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 4:13 PM >Subject: Electric Fuel Switches, was RV-List: Sensenich 72FM Propeller > > >> >>In a previous message, it was written: >>> >>>After all with your fancy gages, the fuel line could plug, the fuel valve >>>might not switch, but you still have to make a restart. The 1998 Oshkosh >>>Grand Champion Long-eze this fall made a forced landing because the >>>electrically controlled valve didn't work. Wiped off the landing gear. >> >>To spin off from a previous thread, I'm thinking of ways to clean up my >>-6 cockpit for maximum space. Electric flaps. Side-mounted throttle >>quadrant. Electric fuel switching (!?). Then I read this. >>I've had an electric tank switch (relay) in my truck for years and no >>failure. I know it only takes once in an aircraft to ruin the day, but >>what's the experience of failure rate? I guess I could rig back-up manual >>plumbing... >>Perhaps I have missed conventional wisdom: "Switch fuel tanks manually!"? >> >>Mike Thompson >>Austin, TX >>-6 emp done, wings soon, fuse in my dreams! >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Scott Johnson wrote: > Until you have many hours of actual IFR in the RV6A, I would not > recommend going over 140 mph. This is because the roll rate is substanially > slower at 140 mph than it is at 200 mph and turbulence will be much easier > to handle. 3.) Because I find the turn coordinator hard to read in moderate > turbulence, I have a vacuum attitude indicator and an electric attitude > indicator for safety. I'm sure no professor of instrument flying but I'd go for a wing leveler before I went for dual AI's. When one of the dual AI's rolls left 45 degrees, which one do you fly by? Only 140 maybe if lots of turbulence but if not??? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: PLEASE READ - Upgrade Fund Raiser Continues...
Dear Listers, I want to thank everyone that has made a contribution to the new email and web server Upgrade Fund so far. It is really nice to see so much support from the List members. We are currently just short of the 50% mark in terms of necessary contributions, however, to reach the break-even point on the new servers. If you been considering making a contribution to support the recent system upgrades, please connect to the secure website to use your credit card or simply mail in a check today. I believe the Lists, Archives, and Search Engine are a wonderful resource for anyone building or flying one of the these aircraft. I spend countless hours each week maintaining the servers and answering questions about using the Lists, website and search engine because I believe in the importance of the free exchange of information on these aircraft. Your contributions show your support as well and I thank you in advance. The URL for the contribution page is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Or you may send a personal check to: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550 I've also been receiving some wonderful comments from contributors and thought it would be nice to share some of them with everyone. Used here without permission... :-) Thank you, Matt Dralle RV, Kolb, and Zenith List Administrator =============================== The List ==================================== "...always interesting and helpful!" -Robert Gibbons "Your List has been invaluable to me in this early stage. The new archive search engine is a thing of beauty..." -Mike Fiedler "...can't tell you the hours I spend here." -Don Mickelson "...the List has been really helpful." -Joe Drumm "I can't afford what the List is really worth..." -Robert Hall "...the RV-List has made building my RV-6 easier and more enjoyable." -Bruce Stobbe "...your List is a great help..." -John Higgins "...what a blast. I almost like the List better than building." -Martin Emrath ============================================================================== Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sam Richards" <samav8(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Aussie painting Course
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Folks we're at it again, though from a different angle this time. One of the topics new builders seem to have trouble handling is spray painting. I have asked a local techincal college to quote on the cost of a weekend aluminium (aluminum)aircraft spray painting course. They would furnish notes; instructor (experienced in aircraft painting; venue (fully furnished, modern, 4 spray booth facility) and all materials. Participants must furnish an approved carbon filter air mask, and protective clothing, etc. It would be a two-8 hour day affair. Activities would probably be split equally between theory/trouble shooting and practical exercises using acrylic paints. Their price to us is AUS$400 per participant. I would appreciate your feed back on this quote and their suggested approach. Regards, Sam Richards ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: Ammeter and shunt question
22> >I have a Mitchell D1-211-5106 60 amp ammeter that I ordered from >A/S. Unlike one of the other ammeters that showed a shunt, this one >didn't. Can someone tell me if this one is internal or external? Nothing >on the gauge does. I would check with the manufacturer or outfit that sold it to you as the first step. If that doesn't get you an answer you can get a pretty good idea if you have a low-current ohmmeter (most good digital voltmeters have a low power resistance function). If the resistance of the two terminals is very low, on the order of 1/10th ohm or less, the meter has an internal shunt. If the resistance is over 1 ohm (probably on the order of a thousand ohms or more) then it requires an external shunt. You then need to find out what resistance shunt is needed so you need to go back to the manufacturer or figure it out. The latter is possible but it is a pain in the neck so ... go ask the manufacturer. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
> Just > think, most first starts of the day are with a dry bowl if you used the idle > cutoff. Cy- I have to take issue with that statement. The Marvel carb idle adjustment in my Lycoming installation is a rotary valve that affects fuel flow into the main jet from the bowl. the bowl should remain full even at idle cutoff, barring a float or needle & seat problem. Am I right? Bill B never run one dry, but plan to try one day. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Switches
> >On a plane that has to >switch tanks (low wings), making sure that the fuel selector rotates easily >should be part of your preflight. Why does a low-wing aircraft have to have selectable fuel tanks? My Yak is a low-wing aircraft with a 20 gallon tank in each wing. The only fuel selector is a firewall cut-off valve. If you fly with one wing high, the high tank gets used faster than the low tank but that seems to be the only problem. I must admit, it does teach you to keep the ball centered. This system clearly works just fine so why must there be a selector to allow you to use fuel from only one tank at a time? Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
> >NOT TO MENTION THE DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE FROM SHOCK COOLING INSTANT 0 RPM TO >CRUISE POWER WHO ARE WE REALLY KIDDING HERE > > PAT > Pat, Please don't take this personally Pat, it is not. But you provide a great opportunity to make what I feel is an important point. How many airplanes have you been in when the engine quit? First of all,unless you have a feathering prop, you will play hell trying to get the prop to stop. Secondly, unless you are really clumsy your cylinder head temp will not drop a nickels worth before you are running again. If you run a tank dry, and you have done it before, the total time will be less than 10 sec. That is in a fuel injected engine. With a Carb it will take even less time. While we are on the subject..... Editorial begins here..... Here comes some heresy! If you have never ran a tank in your airplane out of gas, go do it! it I would highly recommend it! I would not recommend it over lake Michigan in the Fall, but do it over a long runway at a decent altitude. Take an instructor or experienced pilot if you like, but do it! You should know how it behaves when it quits and, more importantly, how to get the fire going again. You might find, that at higher altitudes it won't start unless the mixture is rich. But maybe not too rich. You should know what the gauges say when it quits ( If you have a C/S prop not much will change). You should know exactly how much gas each tank will take after the engine quit. You might find out that your 32 gal tanks are only 29 usable like mine. What is the worst thing that can happen in the very unlikely case it doesn't start? Dead Stick? If you are so afraid of your bird that the thought of a dead stick landing scares the stuffin out of you, I will not be on your passenger list anytime soon. I will stop short of telling you to take it up and shut it off and land it. But you should practice dead stick landings all the time. To do this pull the power all the way to idle at various places in the pattern and land without touching the throttle. Try to land on the 1000 ft marks as slow as possible, without being 1 ft short. When your engine actually does quit (and it will) you will be able to #1 Start it. or #2 Land it. This training will allow you to: #1 get it started with out soiling your undergarments, and #2 deal easily with the slightly higher decent rate because you have practiced both heavy and light and you will land safely. Someone took a poorly disguised potshot at me for saying in an earlier thread. (no offense taken at all, keep shooting) I said that I run a tank dry to maximize range. I am not advocating that for others. I do it and I am comfortable with it. I don't do it in the hills, I don't do it in the trees, I don't do it over water, and I don't do it with the Mrs. on board, EVER! (Not a big problem because she is not often on board. If I did, she would never get on board again.) I do carry my trusty 4" needle nose vice grip so if the handle breaks, no worries! Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com http://www.petroblend.com/dougr P.S. If you are worried about shock cooling during this training in your Lycoming consider we routinely do single engine approaches to go arounds in the B25 with all 2600 cubic inches idling on one side and 40" Manifold pressure on the other. It makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck, but the training is way more important than the engine! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: "Henry S. (Hank) Eilts" <eilts(at)ti.com>
Subject: Trimble and Terra
To all, Trimble's web site has their third quarter financial report available. Among the things it says is "The company incurred a $2.4 million charge associated with corporate restructuring and a one-time charge of $19.9 million associated with discontinuing the general aviation business." Trimble, as you know, manufactures and markets Terra avionics. Also, on the day of publishing the 3Q results, their management held a conference call with interested parties. In that conference call, the current CEO mentions "divesting the GA business". You can listen to a replay of that call. Again, quoting from the Trimble web site, "A replay of the conference call, held on the same day, will be available after 12:00 pm on October 28, 1998 and will remain available for 48 hours. The replay can be accessed by dialing 1-800-642-1687, access code: 522839 To me, discontinuing means quiting, while divesting means selling. So, it is not clear to me what is going to happen to Terra. However, if they can get some money for the operation (i.e. sell it), I'm sure they would rather do that than just close the doors on Terra. This is all FYI. Hank Eilts RV-6 wing kit in house, finishing the tail. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au>
Subject: Aussie painting Course
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Hi Sam, OK I'm interested - so where are you proposing to have this course?? and when??? John Morrissey RV4 Canberra From: Sam Richards [mailto:samav8(at)hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 10:45 AM Subject: RV-List: Aussie painting Course Folks we're at it again, though from a different angle this time. One of the topics new builders seem to have trouble handling is spray painting. I have asked a local techincal college to quote on the cost of a weekend aluminium (aluminum)aircraft spray painting course. They would furnish notes; instructor (experienced in aircraft painting; venue (fully furnished, modern, 4 spray booth facility) and all materials. Participants must furnish an approved carbon filter air mask, and protective clothing, etc. It would be a two-8 hour day affair. Activities would probably be split equally between theory/trouble shooting and practical exercises using acrylic paints. Their price to us is AUS$400 per participant. I would appreciate your feed back on this quote and their suggested approach. Regards, Sam Richards ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Wing skins
Prepunched wing group, Thanks for the very helpful information on wing skin alignment. Van's staff sent me an email today and confirmed what everyone said about the getting those skin holes lined on the rib centerlines and adjusting the other measurements to suit that alignment. Thanks Jerry Calvert edmond ok -6a wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Kitfox wanted
I have a friend that is looking to purchase a Kitfox with a Lycoming. If anyone knows of one for sale, please contact me directly. Thanks. John N721JK RV-4 280 hours in 2 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Ammeter and shunt question
22> >I've begun wiring and am trying to work my way through some of the >initial details of getting started. While looking at schematics and notes, >I found that I may, or may not, need a shunt for my ammeter. I know >that some ammeters have internal shunts. How does one know if the >ammeter has an internal shunt or needs an external? Mine did not >come with one; but, we know that many things do not come with >everything needed to get them up and running. > >I have a Mitchell D1-211-5106 60 amp ammeter that I ordered from >A/S. Unlike one of the other ammeters that showed a shunt, this one >didn't. Can someone tell me if this one is internal or external? Nothing >on the gauge does. > >Jim Sears in KY Jim, If the ammeter documentation doesn't specify an external shunt then it is almost certainly internally shunted. The manufacturer should be able to confirm this. Leo Davies ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Sensenich 72FM Propeller
Date: Oct 29, 1998
You well may be right. I know I have to use the wobble pump to get the pressure up before my Bellanca will even fire. From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 6:28 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Sensenich 72FM Propeller > > >> Just >> think, most first starts of the day are with a dry bowl if you used the >idle >> cutoff. > >Cy- I have to take issue with that statement. The Marvel carb idle adjustment >in my Lycoming installation is a rotary valve that affects fuel flow into the >main jet from the bowl. the bowl should remain full even at idle cutoff, >barring a float or needle & seat problem. Am I right? > >Bill B >never run one dry, but plan to try one day. > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 1998
From: "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: IFR training in an RV-6A?
Hal Kempthorne wrote: > > When one of the dual AI's rolls left 45 degrees, which one do you fly by? > > hal I think the point of having an extra AI with an independent power source is to be able to detect gyro or vacuum system failure quickly; therefore, one checks the standby to be sure it's not DIFFERENT from the primary. I am told that, perhaps, the most difficult failure to detect is the slow death of an AI in the soup, and it's very dangerous. There should be no difference between the two AIs; if there is, it's a simple matter to decide which one is correct by cross checking your other instruments. Best wishes, Jack Abell Jack Abell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Switches
Date: Oct 29, 1998
I think it can be done with a shuttle valve but I was told that the simplest system is a valve to switch tanks. The problem if you have both tanks feeding, the one that empties first then will draw air, preventing you from pumping gas from the gas remaining in the other tank. What happens in your YAK when you are low on fuel? Does it miss or stop in a bank? I think the FAA discourages pumping out of two tanks at the same time. I understand your distress as I flew nothing but Skyhawks before I bought my Bellanca. Skyhawks feed both tanks and the fuel valve is seldom turned. If you have gas, it feeds and runs. Fill both and fly for 3 hours and still have an hour or more reserve. Of course, on my first cross country, it got very quiet after only 2 hours when I ran the selected tank dry. I had the gear cranked out before I figured I need to switch tanks for the remaining 20 gallons. From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 6:43 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Electric Fuel Switches > >> >>On a plane that has to >>switch tanks (low wings), making sure that the fuel selector rotates easily >>should be part of your preflight. > >Why does a low-wing aircraft have to have selectable fuel tanks? My Yak is >a low-wing aircraft with a 20 gallon tank in each wing. The only fuel >selector is a firewall cut-off valve. If you fly with one wing high, the >high tank gets used faster than the low tank but that seems to be the only >problem. I must admit, it does teach you to keep the ball centered. This >system clearly works just fine so why must there be a selector to allow you >to use fuel from only one tank at a time? > > >Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies >brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 >http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Totland <totland(at)mail.algonet.se>
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
> >Are the fuselage static ports flush ones, or were they made out of domed >pop rivets like Van says in the plans? > >I suspect that flush ports would read a higher pressure (and lower >altitude) than the specified domed ports. > >If the blind encoder and the altimeter agree, this sounds like a straight >forward error in the static source (know as position error). This would >also affect the accuracy of your airspeed indicator (it would be reading >higher than the actual calibrated airspeed). > Kevin, Isn't it the other way around? A higher static pressure means less dynamic pressure and therefore a lower indicated airspeed. I had this problem on my -6 with flush static ports. At cruising speed my indicated airspeed was about 10 kts low. I corrrected the error by putting a cut-off rivet head (AN470AD6) with a 1/16 hole in the center, over the static port, to "simulate" Van's pop rivet. The indicated altitude changed about 150 ft if I remember correctly. Ernst Totland RV6 SE-XOI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Thanks for another message, that having a tank run out of fuel isn't the worst thing in the world IF you know what and how to have it make noise again. If you haven't done it, all the excuses in the world will not help you when it does happen to you. You need the experience of knowing what works. It may be a little too late to find out when you are quietly surprised, low, and slow. From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)petroblend.com> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 7:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > > > >> >>NOT TO MENTION THE DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE FROM SHOCK COOLING INSTANT 0 RPM TO >>CRUISE POWER WHO ARE WE REALLY KIDDING HERE >> >> PAT >> > > >Pat, > >Please don't take this personally Pat, it is not. But you provide a great >opportunity to make what I feel is an important point. > >How many airplanes have you been in when the engine quit? First of >all,unless you have a feathering prop, you will play hell trying to get the >prop to stop. Secondly, unless you are really clumsy your cylinder head >temp will not drop a nickels worth before you are running again. If you run >a tank dry, and you have done it before, the total time will be less than 10 >sec. That is in a fuel injected engine. With a Carb it will take even less >time. > >While we are on the subject..... Editorial begins here..... > >Here comes some heresy! If you have never ran a tank in your airplane out >of gas, go do it! it I would highly recommend it! I would not recommend it >over lake Michigan in the Fall, but do it over a long runway at a decent >altitude. Take an instructor or experienced pilot if you like, but do it! > >You should know how it behaves when it quits and, more importantly, how to >get the fire going again. You might find, that at higher altitudes it won't >start unless the mixture is rich. But maybe not too rich. You should know >what the gauges say when it quits ( If you have a C/S prop not much will >change). You should know exactly how much gas each tank will take after the >engine quit. You might find out that your 32 gal tanks are only 29 usable >like mine. > >What is the worst thing that can happen in the very unlikely case it doesn't >start? Dead Stick? If you are so afraid of your bird that the thought of a >dead stick landing scares the stuffin out of you, I will not be on your >passenger list anytime soon. I will stop short of telling you to take it up >and shut it off and land it. But you should practice dead stick landings all >the time. To do this pull the power all the way to idle at various places >in the pattern and land without touching the throttle. Try to land on the >1000 ft marks as slow as possible, without being 1 ft short. > >When your engine actually does quit (and it will) you will be able to #1 >Start it. or #2 Land it. This training will allow you to: #1 get it started >with out soiling your undergarments, and #2 deal easily with the slightly >higher decent rate because you have practiced both heavy and light and you >will land safely. > >Someone took a poorly disguised potshot at me for saying in an earlier >thread. (no offense taken at all, keep shooting) I said that I run a tank >dry to maximize range. I am not advocating that for others. I do it and I >am comfortable with it. I don't do it in the hills, I don't do it in the >trees, I don't do it over water, and I don't do it with the Mrs. on board, >EVER! (Not a big problem because she is not often on board. If I did, she >would never get on board again.) I do carry my trusty 4" needle nose vice >grip so if the handle breaks, no worries! > >Tailwinds, >Doug Rozendaal >dougr(at)petroblend.com >http://www.petroblend.com/dougr > >P.S. If you are worried about shock cooling during this training in your >Lycoming consider we routinely do single engine approaches to go arounds in >the B25 with all 2600 cubic inches idling on one side and 40" Manifold >pressure on the other. It makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck, >but the training is way more important than the engine! > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Oil Cooler Mount; RV-8
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
I would like to get your observation and opinion on an idea I have for mounting my oil cooler. I have a Setrab 13-row oil cooler; there are several of them around this area being used with success. However there have been cases where they as well as other types, have failed when mounted onto the engine itself, due to vibration. I would like to mount mine separate from the engine, down low on the center of the firewall. It would be sitting horizontal, and would attach to the engine mount tubes on the front, and the firewall in the back, perhaps with rubber washers to absorb vibration. I would make an aluminum shroud in the form of a triangle, with 2" scat tubing coming in from the back of the upper- baffle on both sides of the engine. One scat on each side of the triangle, with the oil cooler on the bottom side. Advantages; a single 3" scat is normally recommended but sometimes not enough; this would exceed the intake of a single 3" hose. If the engine ran too cool, such as in winter, you could plug one baffle opening for reduced cooling. And finally, by having the bottom of the cooler exiting into the slipstream right below it, it seems I would get a 'suction' to actually assist in pulling the hot air thru the cooler. Most installations I have seen simply put more hot air into the engine compartment. Being a first timer, I realize I might be missing something, but for the life of me I can't think of any reason why this would not work great. Ideas? Opinions? Experiences? Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Hinch" <chinch(at)arl.co.nz>
Subject: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
> > > [excellent post snipped for brevity] > In "A Gift of Wings", Richard Bach wrote about a renegade flying school, where students where taught how to *fly*, as opposed to *how* to fly. If you know the story, you'll understand the distinction. After reading it, I went to my instructor (I had a grand total of about 50 hours) and insisted that he show me a full prop stop glide, an engine restart, a downwind landing, and a couple of other things he didn't have to teach me, but I *had* to learn. It was one of the best (and eye-widening!) lessons I ever had. Chris "fresh trousers, table 7" Hinch ________________ Chris Hinch Phone: +64-3-477-2995 Animation Research Ltd Fax: +64-3-479-9751 RV-8 Builder #80630 - http://www.arl.co.nz/chinch/rvlog/kiwi8.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
> >> >>If the blind encoder and the altimeter agree, this sounds like a straight >>forward error in the static source (know as position error). This would >>also affect the accuracy of your airspeed indicator (it would be reading >>higher than the actual calibrated airspeed). >> > >Kevin, > >Isn't it the other way around? A higher static pressure means less dynamic >pressure and therefore a lower indicated airspeed. >Ernst Totland >RV6 SE-XOI > Ernst, you are 100% right. I was asleep at the keyboard. Thanks for pointing this out. Now if I can just teach that spell checker to look for technical errors ;-) Take care, Kevin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Step installation
Date: Oct 29, 1998
Don reminded me of some things I omitted from my previous post concerning how to fit the steps to the RV-6/6A. After you cut off about 5/8 + from the long tube, you will probably need to move the long tube aft and down to get the steel plate on the outside of the aircraft to be somewhat parallel to the skin. This will require you to make the hole in the next-to outside rib much larger than 1 1/2 inches in diameter. There may be an appropriate tool for this purpose, but I used a half-round cabinet rasp, elbow grease and emery paper. As you make that hole progressively larger and wiggle the step around, you will see that the outside steel plate becomes more or less parallel to some but not all of the outside skin. The outside skin is curved and that will require you to make very subtle bends in the steel plate to match the curve of the outside skin. The steel is soft and bends very easily with hand tools. You don't need to bend much to get a nearly perfect fit. I already had my fuselage upright and all the bottom skins were nailed on when I decided to put on the steps. I found it very hard to drill as called out on the plans because there is a bulkhead in the way that already has rivets in it. Your spacing has to miss those rivets while allowing for correct spacing between the holes. In the end I left out two rivets in that column of rivets. I made a doubler and fit it to the inside of the skin and bulkhead. This should make it plenty strong enough. My advice to other builders, though, is to fit those steps during initial construction so that you can put rivets through the whole assembly with greater assurance of getting the correct spacing. Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont Fitting floors to the RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 29, 1998
>Here comes some heresy! If you have never ran a tank in your airplane >out >of gas, go do it! it I would highly recommend it! I would not >recommend it >over lake Michigan in the Fall, but do it over a long runway at a >decent >altitude. Take an instructor or experienced pilot if you like, but do >it! > >You should know how it behaves when it quits and, more importantly, >how to >get the fire going again. You might find, that at higher altitudes it >won't >start unless the mixture is rich. But maybe not too rich. You should >know >what the gauges say when it quits ( If you have a C/S prop not much >will >change). You should know exactly how much gas each tank will take >after the >engine quit. You might find out that your 32 gal tanks are only 29 >usable >like mine. > >What is the worst thing that can happen in the very unlikely case it >doesn't >start? Dead Stick? If you are so afraid of your bird that the >thought of a >dead stick landing scares the stuffin out of you, I will not be on >your >passenger list anytime soon. I will stop short of telling you to take >it up >and shut it off and land it. But you should practice dead stick >landings all >the time. To do this pull the power all the way to idle at various >places >in the pattern and land without touching the throttle. Try to land on >the >1000 ft marks as slow as possible, without being 1 ft short. > >When your engine actually does quit (and it will) you will be able to >#1 >Start it. or #2 Land it. This training will allow you to: #1 get it >started >with out soiling your undergarments, and #2 deal easily with the >slightly >higher decent rate because you have practiced both heavy and light and >you >will land safely. > Amen. I agree 100% with every thing Doug wrote except ot emphasize doing it in your own airplane (probably at altitude over an airport that you would feel comfortable doing a dead stick landing in to). The reason for this emphasis is that my RV-6A was quite different from what may be typical for many RV's, but that's why we should all know every detail of our particular airplane. I had an O-320 with a fixed pitch wood 3 blade prop. It would stop turning so fast when the engine quit that I used to joke that I thought maybe it vibrated when it stopped (like in the cartoons). It had very low rotational inertia, and required a dive to about 185 IAS to get it passed a compression stroke. Bottom line is that if I let a tank run 100 % dry (my airplane gave me lots of warning, it would drop from cruse RPM to about 1800 rpm for the last 20 seconds or so) it would sometimes take as much as 20 to 25 seconds of cranking the engine with the starter after the boost pump had been turned on. If I caught it during the period that the rpm had dropped, it wouldn't quit. As doug already mentioned, doing this also allows you to verify how much fuel you can truly ever plan to feed out of that tank. As for running tanks dry routinely during cross country flights? It is the only true fail proof (nearly) way of knowing what your fuel burn per hour (assuming you are accurately timing which I'm sure everyone does) has been on that particular flight. In knowing exactly what your fuel burn per hour has been, and knowing exactly how many minutes you have run on the other tank... you should know exactly how many minutes of powered flight you have left. As always, it is the pilot in command's decision as to what proceedures "he" will use when flying a particular flight. To be honest, when I fly trips in the company RV's I never run a tank dry because I don't fly any one of them enough to remain familiar enough with them to feel comfortable doing so. Each one has sytems that are slightly different from the others, so for me this has been the conservative approach. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Landing Gear
Date: Oct 29, 1998
> >After getting my "Inspect your nose gear" letter from Van's, I was >prompted to think that we should perform similar procedures on our >Main Gear just for safety's sake. > >I plan to! > >My opinion - open to others, > The main gear legs are quite different from the nose gear leg. They are slightly larger diameter at the top end and taper towards the axle. The many thousands of hours on the whole RV fleet (which all have a common design ancestry in the main gear legs) with never any type of fatigue failure in my opinion shows that yearly inspection is probably not necessary. But it certainly wont hurt anything if you chose to do so. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: Rudder stops
Date: Oct 29, 1998
The plans call for 1 x 1 x .125 angle to be used for the rudder stops. The location shown puts the horizontal leg of the stop above the rudder cable as it comes out of the fuselage back to the rudder horn. In this location the vertical leg of the angle does not go far enough down to rivet to the fuselage horizontal stringer. Do most people just .... 1. Rivet the rudder stop through the rear bulkhead and fuselage skin and don't worry about catching the stringer or.... 2. Use a larger piece of angle to reach down and catch the stringer or.... 3. Something else I haven't thought of. Thanks, Stan Blanton RV-6 Lubbock, TX stanb(at)door.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Ammeter and shunt question
<< While looking at schematics and notes, I found that I may, or may not, need a shunt for my ammeter. I know that some ammeters have internal shunts. How does one know if the ammeter has an internal shunt or needs an external? Mine did not come with one; but, we know that many things do not come with everything needed to get them up and running. >> How big are the terminals on the gauge? Large terminals >10-32 would likely indicate internal shunt. I'd sure hate to run 6-8 AWG wires to and from an internal shunt ammeter on the panel. I would recommend a call to Mitchell (ACS can give you a number for them). Perhaps there is such a thing as a standard shunt, but I haven't heard of one. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Switches
On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, Cy Galley wrote: > > What happens in your YAK when you are low on fuel? Does it miss or stop in a > bank? I think the FAA discourages pumping out of two tanks at the same > time. Well, I have never gotten a tank lower than about 10 litres and that only happened when I was fooling about and wasn't keeping the ball centered. So, I don't know. > I understand your distress No distress here. > as I flew nothing but Skyhawks before I bought > my Bellanca. Skyhawks feed both tanks and the fuel valve is seldom turned. > If you have gas, it feeds and runs. Fill both and fly for 3 hours and still > have an hour or more reserve. I have flown 172's and I owned a 182 at one time. I am familiar. That is why I asked the question. [speculation mode on] A high-wing aircraft always has positive pressure from the tank going to the engine even if one tank empties and unports. On the Yak, the fuel sump in the belly is a good 10" below the lowest point in the tanks. Perhaps that is sufficient head to ensure positive fuel flow to the sump even if one tank empties first and unports. Maybe the Russians know something we don't. :^) Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane (916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1 (916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-4 Strobe Tail Light Wiring
<<2) What size wire do I use between power supply and strobe? The Whelan product came with diddley for documentation. Don't know what the strobe will require for power.>> I don't know which unit you have, but the certificated single flash unit draws about 3A. 18-20 AWG from your bus thru a switch to the power supply. Same for ground. << 3) Should I use shielded cable between power supply and strobe?>> You should use the cable sold for this. Van's has it in an installation kit with connectors/contacts. << 4) The power supply has a 3-pin connector with one pin marked (anode), another marked (cathode), and the third marked (trigger), but the strobe has only two wires and a two-wire connector. Hmmm. So, how does the power supply get wired to the strobe?>> The input is power (12V from switch, gnd (to airframe) and some have a sync contact for tying together multiples power supplies to flash together. The output to the strobe head is anode, cathode and trigger. All xenon tubes require these three inputs. If it has two wires it is not a strobe (just a halogen bulb). The cable must be shielded three conductor (18 AWG or so). << 5) Where can I order these 2 and 3-pin connectors? >> Van's has them. Call Whelen and they will send you the installation guide for their strobes. See Yeller Pages. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Bob Urban <ruok(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Switches
Ercoupe has 2 wing tanks connected together and no selector. If both tanks are full and the aircraft is parked with one wing lower than the other, fuel will be forced out the low wing's filler cap. > > Why does a low-wing aircraft have to have selectable fuel tanks? My Yak is > a low-wing aircraft with a 20 gallon tank in each wing. The only fuel > selector is a firewall cut-off valve. If you fly with one wing high, the > high tank gets used faster than the low tank but that seems to be the only > problem. I must admit, it does teach you to keep the ball centered. This > system clearly works just fine so why must there be a selector to allow you > to use fuel from only one tank at a time? > > Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies > brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 > http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 > +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
Ernst, I believe I may have a similar problem with my newly flying RV-6A. My VSI indicates 1000 feet per minute down when I am in level flight. It reads zero on the ground and will indicate a climb by a lessening of the down rate. Did your situation have any effect on your VSI?? I suspect I have positive pressure in the static which would also mean I may be going 10 mph faster than indicated especially at the higher airspeeds. Ed Anderson anderson_ed(at)bah.com RV-6A N494BW > > > > Isn't it the other way around? A higher static pressure means less dynamic > pressure and therefore a lower indicated airspeed. > I had this problem on my -6 with flush static ports. At cruising speed my > indicated airspeed was about 10 kts low. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)petroblend.com> Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 3:26 PM Subject: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) Some food for thought at www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0007.html Larry building 6A wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
>I had an O-320 with a fixed pitch wood 3 blade prop. It would stop >turning so fast when the engine quit that I used to joke that I thought >maybe it vibrated when it stopped (like in the cartoons). >It had very low rotational inertia, and required a dive to about 185 IAS >to get it passed a compression stroke. In my RV4 I had 180hp and a 70-74 Warnke Prop. At 100mph the prop stops. I know. It happened tiwce and quiet is not a nice sound! Once was a fuel injection problem the other a complete engine failure, dropped valve. With a fixed pitch prop that airplane will have a much higher glide rate then with the engine at idle during practices. The Props on these airplanes are pitched much higher then the airplanes we all trained in and they still pull the airplane a lot at idle. Just be aware that the sink rate is higher without the stick turning. I know. In my current plane, a harmon rocket, I have a constant speed prop. My question for the experts is... When the engine quits and I cannot get it started do i pull the prop handle out to make it go coarse or push it in for fine pitch? Tom Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
In a message dated 10/30/98 6:50:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, anderson_ed(at)bah.com writes: << Ernst, I believe I may have a similar problem with my newly flying RV-6A. My VSI indicates 1000 feet per minute down when I am in level flight. It reads zero on the ground and will indicate a climb by a lessening of the down rate. Did your situation have any effect on your VSI?? I suspect I have positive pressure in the static which would also mean I may be going 10 mph faster than indicated especially at the higher airspeeds. Ed Anderson anderson_ed(at)bah.com RV-6A N494BW >> Ed, I used the flush ports on my RV-8 and experienced low airspeed indications. I was a little disappointed in the speeds after flying it for the first few times. This plane has an IO-360 (200hp) and wasn't indicating much faster that my old RV-4 with 150hp. I used the pop rivet static ports from Van's on the RV-4. Not until doing GPS speed comparisons, did I find that the airspeed indicator was reading about 22mph low on the top end. It was very accurate on the low end. I fixed the problem by experimenting with the heads of different sized AN470 rivets glued over the flush static ports. These rivet heads were first drilled with a 1/16" hole in the center. My airspeed is now calibrated to within about 2 mph on the top end and seems to be right on at low speeds also. It did not have any visible effects on my VSI. Good luck with the problem. Regards, Louis Smith RV-8 N801RV 65 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
Ok, Thanks Louis. Must have a different problem with my VSI. Ed Lousmith(at)aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/30/98 6:50:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, > anderson_ed(at)bah.com writes: > > << > Ernst, > I believe I may have a similar problem with my newly flying RV-6A. My > VSI indicates 1000 feet per minute down when I am in level flight. It > reads zero on the ground and will indicate a climb by a lessening of the > down rate. Did your situation have any effect on your VSI?? I suspect I > have positive pressure in the static which would also mean I may be > going 10 mph faster than indicated especially at the higher airspeeds. > > Ed Anderson > anderson_ed(at)bah.com > RV-6A N494BW > >> > > Ed, > I used the flush ports on my RV-8 and experienced low airspeed indications. I > was a little disappointed in the speeds after flying it for the first few > times. This plane has an IO-360 (200hp) and wasn't indicating much faster > that my old RV-4 with 150hp. I used the pop rivet static ports from Van's on > the RV-4. Not until doing GPS speed comparisons, did I find that the airspeed > indicator was reading about 22mph low on the top end. It was very accurate on > the low end. I fixed the problem by experimenting with the heads of different > sized AN470 rivets glued over the flush static ports. These rivet heads were > first drilled with a 1/16" hole in the center. My airspeed is now calibrated > to within about 2 mph on the top end and seems to be right on at low speeds > also. It did not have any visible effects on my VSI. Good luck with the > problem. > > Regards, > Louis Smith > RV-8 N801RV > 65 hours > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Dry Tanks
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Listers, How about the danger of slipping such that the tank (with low fuel quantity) is down. I found out (at altitude) that with fuel levels of less than 1/4 tank, slipping, with that wing low, caused fuel starvation in as little as 30 seconds. Has anybody else done this test? Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > From: smcdaniels(at)juno.com [SMTP:smcdaniels(at)juno.com] > Sent: Friday, October 30, 1998 12:00 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > > Amen. > I agree 100% with every thing Doug wrote except ot emphasize doing it in > your own airplane (probably at altitude over an airport that you would > feel comfortable doing a dead stick landing in to). The reason for this > emphasis is that my RV-6A was quite different from what may be typical > for many RV's, but that's why we should all know every detail of our > particular airplane. > I had an O-320 with a fixed pitch wood 3 blade prop. It would stop > turning so fast when the engine quit that I used to joke that I thought > maybe it vibrated when it stopped (like in the cartoons). > It had very low rotational inertia, and required a dive to about 185 IAS > to get it passed a compression stroke. > Bottom line is that if I let a tank run 100 % dry (my airplane gave me > lots of warning, it would drop from cruse RPM to about 1800 rpm for the > last 20 seconds or so) it would sometimes take as much as 20 to 25 > seconds of cranking the engine with the starter after the boost pump had > been turned on. If I caught it during the period that the rpm had > dropped, it wouldn't quit. > As doug already mentioned, doing this also allows you to verify how much > fuel you can truly ever plan to feed out of that tank. > > As for running tanks dry routinely during cross country flights? > It is the only true fail proof (nearly) way of knowing what your fuel > burn per hour (assuming you are accurately timing which I'm sure everyone > does) has been on that particular flight. In knowing exactly what your > fuel burn per hour has been, and knowing exactly how many minutes you > have run on the other tank... you should know exactly how many minutes of > powered flight you have left. > > As always, it is the pilot in command's decision as to what proceedures > "he" will use when flying a particular flight. > > To be honest, when I fly trips in the company RV's I never run a tank dry > because I don't fly any one of them enough to remain familiar enough with > them to feel comfortable doing so. Each one has sytems that are slightly > different from the others, so for me this has been the conservative > approach. > > > Scott McDaniels > These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily > reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
> From: Doug Rozendaal [SMTP:dougr(at)petroblend.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 7:19 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > > > ****** SNIP ******* > > >How many airplanes have you been in when the engine quit? First of > >all,unless you have a feathering prop, you will play hell trying to get > the > >prop to stop. > > Actually, it's quite easy to get the prop stopped on my RV (160hp, > metal prop) Just slow it down! At about 70 indicated, it stops.... > > > **** SNIP **** > >You should know exactly how much gas each tank will take after the > >engine quit. You might find out that your 32 gal tanks are only 29 > usable > >like mine. > > Agree here. I found out that i have less than a cup of unusable fuel! > Slipping such that the selected empty tank is high doesn't do any good! > > Bottom line: A pilot has to know his AND his plane's limits! > Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: RV-8 mounting the tail
Any of you RV-8 guys out there have any pointers for mounting the tail? I keep having recurring nightmares about all the R/C planes I built with crooked tails that flew like drunken gnats. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://tabshred.com/rv8/welcome.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: NO Dry Tanks
Date: Oct 30, 1998
In a FLYING video (a very short lived series), a pilot takes a Hawk or Skylane up and shuts down the engine. He ends up finding out that it glides @15:1 with the prop stopped and 10:1 with it windmilling. The windmilling prop is a lot of drag (kinda like autorotation on a gyrocopter/helicopter)! But, the main point, running a tank dry is not a wise desicion. What's the potential gain to potential loss ratio? Not a good trade off in my opinion. Our club also terminates members for returning with less than 5 gallons in a Hawk. Also, sudden stoppage on any engine is bad news; jets especially. As for Bob Hoover, he brings the engine to idle for a while before shutting the engine down. He is also always at the airport when he is doing his routine, and he now takes a 45 deg heading to the runway after liftoff so he can return to the airport in the event of an unexpected failure . . . . he had a airplane misfueled one day. If you have any questions for Bob, he will be at our Annual Hangar Party (Beech, Boeing and Cessna flying clubs) here in Wichita on November 7th. I'd be glad to pass anything along. Just my opinion, Ron FLY-IN-HOME(at)worldnet.att.net >In my RV4 I had 180hp and a 70-74 Warnke Prop. At 100mph the prop stops. I >know. It happened tiwce and quiet is not a nice sound! Once was a fuel >injection problem the other a complete engine failure, dropped valve. >With a fixed pitch prop that airplane will have a much higher glide rate >then with the engine at idle during practices. The Props on these airplanes >are pitched much higher then the airplanes we all trained in and they still >pull the airplane a lot at idle. >Just be aware that the sink rate is higher without the stick turning. I know. > >In my current plane, a harmon rocket, I have a constant speed prop. My >question for the experts is... When the engine quits and I cannot get it >started do i pull the prop handle out to make it go coarse or push it in for >fine pitch? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Try gliding at idle with the prop at max RPM, then pull it out to full course. There should be a noticeable increase in speed and a lower sink rate. It's like a giant streamer was just cut off the tail. At least this was my experience with the Piper Arrow I fly. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://tabshred.com/rv8/welcome.html > In my current plane, a harmon rocket, I have a constant speed prop. My > question for the experts is... When the engine quits and I cannot get it > started do i pull the prop handle out to make it go coarse or push it in for > fine pitch? > > Tom Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks
Stucklen, Frederic IFC wrote: > > How about the danger of slipping such that the tank (with low fuel > quantity) is down. I found out (at altitude) that with fuel levels of less > than 1/4 tank, slipping, with that wing low, caused fuel starvation in as > little as 30 seconds. Has anybody else done this test? Done that and it wasn't a test. I was taking a friend on a photo shoot around a Northern Ontario resort. To maximize the window of oportunity I slipped the airplane on each pass. On the third or forth pass the engine faltered for the first time in about 300 hours of on time. I leveled very quickly turned on the boost pump and switched tanks. I told my passenger that we were just going to fly over yonder clearing for a while. We were showing about 1/2 tanks. I made a note, placarded the selector and it hasn't happened since. Terry Jantzi Kitchener ON RV-6 C-GZRV <http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Switches
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Isn't the gas burned from the header tank in the fuselage and the fuel in the wing tanks transferred to the header tank before being burned? This keeps the bubbles out of the carb feed line. From: Bob Urban <ruok(at)mindspring.com> Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 4:02 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Electric Fuel Switches > >Ercoupe has 2 wing tanks connected together and no selector. >If both tanks are full and the aircraft is parked with one wing lower >than the other, fuel will be forced out the low wing's filler cap. > >> >> Why does a low-wing aircraft have to have selectable fuel tanks? My Yak is >> a low-wing aircraft with a 20 gallon tank in each wing. The only fuel >> selector is a firewall cut-off valve. If you fly with one wing high, the >> high tank gets used faster than the low tank but that seems to be the only >> problem. I must admit, it does teach you to keep the ball centered. This >> system clearly works just fine so why must there be a selector to allow you >> to use fuel from only one tank at a time? >> >> Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies >> brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 >> http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 >> +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Taken from the article listed below... "So, even if the fuel stops, the "suck, squeeze, bang, blow" of the normal internal combustion process continues. All we have to do is introduce fuel again, and the engine simply has no choice, it MUST start producing power again. Will it start again? Is there a problem restoring the fuel flow? In a word, NO. The FAA certification rules require testing in this area. For example: FAR 23.955(e) Multiple fuel tanks. For reciprocating engines that are supplied with fuel from more than one tank, if engine power loss becomes apparent due to fuel depletion from the tank selected, it must be possible after switching to any full tank, in level flight, to obtain 75 percent maximum continuous power on that engine in not more than - (1) 10 seconds for naturally aspirated single engine airplanes; (2) 20 seconds for turbocharged single engine airplanes, provided that 75 percent maximum continuous naturally aspirated power is regained within 10 seconds; or (3) 20 seconds for multiengine airplanes. FAR 25.951(a) Each fuel system must be constructed and arranged to ensure a flow of fuel at a rate and pressure established for proper engine and auxiliary power unit functioning under each likely operating condition, including any maneuver for which certification is requested and during which the engine or auxiliary power unit is permitted to be in operation. (b) Each fuel system must be arranged so that any air which is introduced into the system will not result in - (1) Power interruption for more than 20 seconds for reciprocating engines; or (2) Flameout for turbine engines. I don't have a copy of the old CARs (CAR 3, and 4b) here, but I'm pretty sure that language is lifted right out of those early, common-sense rules. I know of no accidents that have occurred because an engine would not restart when supplied with fuel in flight. I have personally done this literally thousands of times myself, and never seen more than a couple of seconds of interruption, even when I was completely unaware the engine was about to quit. If we count all the people I know who routinely did it, there are literally millions of such events. " From: Larry McKee <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 6:46 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > > >From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)petroblend.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 3:26 PM >Subject: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > > >Some food for thought at www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0007.html > >Larry > >building 6A wings > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-8 mounting the tail- long
<< Any of you RV-8 guys out there have any pointers for mounting the tail? I keep having recurring nightmares about all the R/C planes I built with crooked tails that flew like drunken gnats. >> Moe: All the RV tails mount the same. It's not that hard, as long as you have built a reasonably straight fuse. Level the fuse side to side, using a GOOD level across the cockpit longerons. Set the h stab on the fuse (where it belongs), center it, (put the center bearing in the center of the 411/611/811 bars) and level it using the SAME level, turned the SAME way (put an arrow on the thing so you always get the same side up). Use the proper shim under the h stab rear spar (usually 1/4"). Clamp the stab to the 411/611/811 bars, and drill it up per the plans. Put a pen mark at a point near the rear seat bulkhead, in the center of the turtledeck skin. Use this mark to center or straighten the h stab. You should have the same measurement from this point to each rear corners of the stab. Install the proper shims under the front spar of the h stab. A pc of double- sticky tape helps hold the shims in place. Drill the fwd spar to the angle at the 410/610/810 bulkhead. You might need an additional shim under one or the other side to keep the stab level and not under tension. No problem- just get the stab as level as you can. V stab: We usually put a #8 c/s screw thru the #12 bulkhead into the t/w weldment to hold it in place. This fastener remains in the a/c permanently. It will not interfere with anything else if positioned properly. Position the v stab as shown on the plans, plumb it, and drill the bottom hole where it will attach to the #12 bulkhead. Drill this hole #30 at this time. Check for plumb again. Re-plumb as needed, and drill the other two holes at the #12/t/w weldment/v stab attach. Final drill with a "D" drill for a good fit. The directions are good to finish up from here. I will add that we use those nifty plastic bushings from Avery and some thread to make sure we have the rear spar of the v stab straight (remember using these when you set up your h stab jig?). It really pretty easy to get a curve in this pc, which will cause your rudder to act a bit funny (it will either want to stay centered, or flop to one side or the other). Some fiddling with the attach angle at the top longerons will help keep the spar straight. Or, you may have to raise the front spar attach a bit. Do not expect the adjustable rod ends on the rudder to make up for a crooked hinge line on the spar- it don't work that way! We have never offset the v stab as some others have. How much do you offset the thing anyway? My Champ has a definate turn to the right with power off (it has an offset stab), so this told me to leave the v stab straight. Good luck, and let me know if you have any futher questions. Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder stops
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > >The plans call for 1 x 1 x .125 angle to be used for the rudder stops. The >location shown puts the horizontal leg of the stop above the rudder cable as >it comes out of the fuselage back to the rudder horn. > >In this location the vertical leg of the angle does not go far enough down >to rivet to the fuselage horizontal stringer. > >Do most people just .... > >2. Use a larger piece of angle to reach down and catch the stringer or.... > This one, after trying first as specified. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6Q N441LP Reserved Wiring & FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Believe it or not,cy,,, I have ridden with people who did not know that the engine was not running, just "windmilling", Now THAT really gets your attention! Cy Galley wrote: > > Taken from the article listed below... > > "So, even if the fuel stops, the "suck, squeeze, bang, blow" of the normal > internal combustion process continues. All we have to do is introduce fuel > again, and the engine simply has no choice, it MUST start producing power > again. > > Will it start again? > Is there a problem restoring the fuel flow? In a word, NO. The FAA > certification rules require testing in this area. For example: > > FAR 23.955(e) Multiple fuel tanks. For reciprocating engines that are > supplied with fuel from more than one tank, if engine power loss becomes > apparent due to fuel depletion from the tank selected, it must be possible > after switching to any full tank, in level flight, to obtain 75 percent > maximum continuous power on that engine in not more than - > > (1) 10 seconds for naturally aspirated single engine airplanes; > (2) 20 seconds for turbocharged single engine airplanes, provided that 75 > percent maximum continuous naturally aspirated power is regained within 10 > seconds; or > > (3) 20 seconds for multiengine airplanes. > > FAR 25.951(a) Each fuel system must be constructed and arranged to ensure a > flow of fuel at a rate and pressure established for proper engine and > auxiliary power unit functioning under each likely operating condition, > including any maneuver for which certification is requested and during which > the engine or auxiliary power unit is permitted to be in operation. > > (b) Each fuel system must be arranged so that any air which is introduced > into the system will not result in - > (1) Power interruption for more than 20 seconds for reciprocating engines; > > (2) Flameout for turbine engines. > > I don't have a copy of the old CARs (CAR 3, and 4b) here, but I'm pretty > sure that language is lifted right out of those early, common-sense rules. > > I know of no accidents that have occurred because an engine would not > restart when supplied with fuel in flight. I have personally done this > literally thousands of times myself, and never seen more than a couple of > seconds of interruption, even when I was completely unaware the engine was > about to quit. If we count all the people I know who routinely did it, there > are literally millions of such events. " > > From: Larry McKee <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 6:46 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > > > > > > >From: Doug Rozendaal <dougr(at)petroblend.com> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Date: Thursday, October 29, 1998 3:26 PM > >Subject: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > > > > > >Some food for thought at www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0007.html > > > >Larry > > > >building 6A wings > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
For what it's worth, I was taught to run a tank dry. The three instructors (one an ex many motor driver, the other two ex fighter jocks) I had when going through USAF flying school (T-6 and P-51) all taught the same. Their reasoning was that if you must fly the max on your fuel left, it is better to have it all in one tank when you get in the pattern (if you make it) than it is to have it spread out in each of 2 or more tanks. They each had me run the engine dry by cutting off the fuel, and monitoring the gauges to see what would tell me first that it was going to die. Seems to me it was the fuel pressure, and if caught soon enough the engine didn't get to the windmilling stage. Point being, if you are expecting the tank to run dry, include the fuel pressure in your cross check more often than you would normally and be prepared to react. They had me look at the prop being stationary while in flight, to prove that the a/c would fly with the prop still. Of course, this was in conventional engines. No one had me run a jet dry. In the early days it was hard enough to get them started on the ground, much less in the air. We had airstart procedures, but we didn't practice them. Sort of like no need to practice dying. The 'run dry' system I used only once; in a T-6, coming off of a combat mission. Wish I had it once in an F-4 when I landed with less than 100 pounds on the totalizer. I did check my RV6 by doing it at good altitude, over a very long run way, after building up my confidence. (Must be the age thing, it didn't worry me when I was 20-21). When I landed, it took within 2-3 tenths of a gallon of what I had first filled up my tank with. That was probably temp or so inaccurate, indicted about 1/8 full. As to the 'simulated engine out' practice, I had figured that the glide would be less with a dead prop than at idle. But it seems to me that Van or someone had an article to the contrary. Implying it was better with a dead prop than a windmilling prop. Don't remember if it had to do with the idle or the speed to keep it windmilling. Any one remember the article?? Please don't flame me regarding this, I am not saying it is what YOU should do. I'm just saying what I was taught to do if a mission caught you by the short hairs. And it made sense to me. Of course, it is best not to get yourself in this corner if you can prevent it. John C Darby Jr. RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought Stephenville TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-8 mounting the tail
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Moe; I just basically followed the instructions, go slow and easy and check and double check each step and measurement, before drilling anything. One tip; I used a small roofing nail clamped and taped to the center line and protruding above the lip of the upper rear fuse skin; in other words the back of the passenger compartment. Then using ONLY a non stretching string, such as dental floss, you can just swivel the string back and forth laterally to get your equal measurement on the stabilizer. The whole tail mounting takes about a day, so it is not that bad. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > > >Any of you RV-8 guys out there have any pointers for mounting the >tail? I keep >having recurring nightmares about all the R/C planes I built with >crooked tails >that flew like drunken gnats. >Moe Colontonio >moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net >Check out my RV-8 page at: >http://tabshred.com/rv8/welcome.html > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: PLEASE READ - Upgrade Fund Raiser Continues...
>Dear Listers, > >I want to thank everyone that has made a contribution to the new email and >web server Upgrade Fund so far. Matt, I sent a contribution and answered an instant later with a thanks. I did notice that I had not give the correct return addrress. I hope it went through, I guess I will find out on my Visa bill! Thanks for having the net! It has to be a pain sometimes for you! Have one heck of a good day! Denny Harjehausen - Wiring the RV-6 (??) Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Scott wrote: << As for running tanks dry routinely during cross country flights? It is the only true fail proof (nearly) way of knowing what your fuel burn per hour (assuming you are accurately timing which I'm sure everyone does) has been on that particular flight. In knowing exactly what your fuel burn per hour has been, and knowing exactly how many minutes you have run on the other tank... you should know exactly how many minutes of powered flight you have left. >> Just one caveat: before doing this, verify that the other tank feeds normally, prior to exhausting fuel in the first tank. Line blockages do happen. So does contamination. It would be a shame to run one tank dry and only then discover the other tank's fuel is not available...! -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: Ammeter and shunt question
Date: Oct 30, 1998
>I have a Mitchell D1-211-5106 60 amp ammeter that I ordered from >A/S. Unlike one of the other ammeters that showed a shunt, this one >didn't. Can someone tell me if this one is internal or external? Nothing >on the gauge does. >Jim Sears in KY >RV-6A N198JS (Still hanging parts on engine and firewall.) > > JIm: Chief's catolog shows D1-211-5106 is internaly shunted. [a/s part # 10-25115.] Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Moe Colontonio wrote: > > Try gliding at idle with the prop at max RPM, then pull it out to full course. > There should be a noticeable increase in speed and a lower sink rate. It's like a > giant streamer was just cut off the tail. At least this was my experience with the > Piper Arrow I fly. > > Moe Colontonio > moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net > Check out my RV-8 page at: > http://tabshred.com/rv8/welcome.html > > > In my current plane, a harmon rocket, I have a constant speed prop. My > > question for the experts is... When the engine quits and I cannot get it > > started do i pull the prop handle out to make it go coarse or push it in for > > fine pitch? > > > > Tom Martin I agree with Moe, it should glide better with course pitch, assuming it is windmilling freely. If it is not windmilling, the (Hartzell) will be in fine pitch anyway. So I think the answer to your question is: "It depends." If you are sure you are not going to get a restart, go to coarse pitch and improve your glide ratio. If you still have hope, leave it in fine pitch for better chance at restart. For me that means 99% of the time I want fine pitch. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: GPS summary
RVers, Thanks to all who responded to my question about the Garmin III Pilot and the Lowrance 100. I received many, off-list responses and sent off-list "thank-you's". Hope I didn't miss anybody. More people who responded had experience with the Lowrance than the Garmin units. No matter which unit they had, the responders were happy with their units. The only negatives that I received were on the Garmin. The Garmin's buttons were judged too small and hard to use bt some users and the screen hard to view. Since the Lowrance has about the same screen size, I'd imagine that this screen would be difficult to view on it, as well, although I don't remember any Lowrance users complaining. Some folks that chose the Lowrance commented that the felt that the Lowarance offered the best value, including as standard some items that Garmin charges extra for. I looked at both Web pages. The Lowrance website is much better done and is more informative that the Garmin site. I downloaded the manual from the Lowrance site and was able to get a good feel for the operation of the unit. Several respondents commented on the great service that they received from Lowrance as far as software and hardware updates. Database updates are cheaper with the Lowrance. Lowrance has an obstruction data base, by the way, which could be really useful to some pilots. One factor that appeals to me with the Lowarance is the ability to download ground map information from a CD, turning the 100 into a handy item to take along while hiking/fishing. Their web page shows the detail available with this mode of operation. Sounds like just the thing to keep me from geting lost while tramping around the mountains, hiking and fishing. All of those rock and trees look the same to me:) You can also download stuff for boating. They have symbols for water hazards which might come in handy. I have no interest in "ocean stuff" ever since seing "Jaws", though. The web page for Lowrance is: www.lowrance.com/ Even if you're not interested in the unit, I think their web page is fun just because it's so well done. Regards, Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: Sensenich 72FM Propeller Performance
A great post Eustace. From hearsay I had heard only good reports about the 72FM prop but this is the first with actual performance numbers. Please keep posting performance numbers as testing develops. Gary Zilik 6A s/n 22993 Aero Sport Engine and 72FM prop on the way. > My RV6 is constant speed equipped and is 55 lbs heavier. With the exception > of the slower initial acceleration on take-off and slightly longer run and > slightly lower initial rate of climb I would be hard pressed to keep up > with Roger's aircraft. Jim and I are just starting our fuselage for the 6A > and after today's experience will probaably go with the fixed pitch prop on > our 180 hp engine rather than a constant speed as planned. If one has > special requirements such as short field work, high airstrips or floats I > would stay with a constant speed. > > All in all my first impression is that Sensenich have really done their > homework on this one and have given us a chance to have almost constant > speed performance at a saving of almost 4000.00 US. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: It's painless! (and long)
Fellow RVers, I just made a donation to Matt through his Website. It's easy, fast, painless and the right thing to do. I joined the list in early 1995 after my RV-6 was completed. Boy, do I wish I would have had access to the list while building. What a great resource! I think I donated several years ago and then kind of let things slide. After all, I wasn't building. I kind of figured that all of the time I spent helping other builder's kind of took me off the hook, donation wise. I've made several good friends through the list. It's neat to meet people from the list at fly-ins. You have instant friends. The list is kind of like having hundreds of pen pals. So, from just an entertainment stand point, the list is worth something. How much are subscriptions to aviation magazines? When you look at it from that angle, the list is probably worth $30/year. I'm always amazed at the wide range of knowledge and aviation experience that members of the list have. There are also many knowledgable folks in other areas such as: electrical, avionics, engineering, etc. The list is like having a giant "Rolodex" of experts in various fields. I know there have been comments about "There is a great deal of false or bad information passed on this list daily" but I feel that the majority of information posted through the years has been pretty informative. Just like other chaff. Several years ago, there was an answer man at an aircraft kit supplier who's response to a builder's question was generally "gee, no one else has had that problem". Then, you'd go to OSH and talk to builders of that type of aircraft and find out that they all had the same problem. That's one valuable advantage that we have on the list. Any problems we have can be discussed, kicked around, and generally a solution is arrived at. I wasn't aware until lately of all the equipment required to run a first class operation. I was always sure that Matt spent a lot of time operating the list but never gave much thought to the hardware involved. I always thought it strange that he didn't charge for the list. When I subscribed to the Glastar list, you didn't get on line until you sent your money. I think it was $10.00. Let me tell you, if the Glastar list is worth $10.00, the RV-list is worth a whole lot more. So. Did it work? Did I make you feel a little guilty? Good. Look at it this way. Give up a couple of fine cigars, don't go out to eat or think of how help from the list saved you from having to order expensive parts and send in your donation. Regards, Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Nick Nafsinger <n.nafsinger(at)cwix.com>
Subject: weird altimeter
Guys... Just my $.02, but doesn't a VSI detect "change" (meaning actual climb or descent...) in the static system? If it read high or low because of a constant high or low pressure then it would be an Altimeter... right? flying then that would be a leak in the case. :-^ FWIW. Nick Nafsinger RV-8... soon.... n.nafsinger(at)cwix.com From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lousmith(at)aol.com Sent: October 30, 1998 5:32 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: weird altimeter In a message dated 10/30/98 6:50:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, anderson_ed(at)bah.com writes: << Ernst, I believe I may have a similar problem with my newly flying RV-6A. My VSI indicates 1000 feet per minute down when I am in level flight. It reads zero on the ground and will indicate a climb by a lessening of the down rate. Did your situation have any effect on your VSI?? I suspect I have positive pressure in the static which would also mean I may be going 10 mph faster than indicated especially at the higher airspeeds. Ed Anderson anderson_ed(at)bah.com RV-6A N494BW >> Ed, I used the flush ports on my RV-8 and experienced low airspeed indications. I was a little disappointed in the speeds after flying it for the first few times. This plane has an IO-360 (200hp) and wasn't indicating much faster that my old RV-4 with 150hp. I used the pop rivet static ports from Van's on the RV-4. Not until doing GPS speed comparisons, did I find that the airspeed indicator was reading about 22mph low on the top end. It was very accurate on the low end. I fixed the problem by experimenting with the heads of different sized AN470 rivets glued over the flush static ports. These rivet heads were first drilled with a 1/16" hole in the center. My airspeed is now calibrated to within about 2 mph on the top end and seems to be right on at low speeds also. It did not have any visible effects on my VSI. Good luck with the problem. Regards, Louis Smith RV-8 N801RV 65 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Rudder stops
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com (cecil t hatfield)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
I put one piece of angle across the rear of the Fuslage. Two bolts already in the perfect position holds it on. A much neater setup. Mush less in the breeze. Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks CA > >> >> >>The plans call for 1 x 1 x .125 angle to be used for the rudder >stops. The >>location shown puts the horizontal leg of the stop above the rudder >cable as >>it comes out of the fuselage back to the rudder horn. >> >>In this location the vertical leg of the angle does not go far enough >down >>to rivet to the fuselage horizontal stringer. >> >>Do most people just .... > > > >> >>2. Use a larger piece of angle to reach down and catch the stringer >or.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
>In my current plane, a harmon rocket, I have a constant speed prop. My >question for the experts is... When the engine quits and I cannot get it >started do i pull the prop handle out to make it go coarse or push it in for >fine pitch? > >Tom Martin > Tom, I hesitate to answer this question asked of the "experts".... An "ex-" is a has been and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure. I am not sure that I understand your question, but this is what happens so I hope you can find your answer in here. If your engine is windmilling, and your prop control is calling for 2300 rpms for instance, and your low pitch stops are set low enough (typically they are not and they should not be), or you are diving steep enough, it will govern at 2300 rpms. Otherwise it will behave as a fixed pitch propellor on the low pitch stops. If you select low rpm/ high pitch, it will seek to govern at the lowest rpm allowed. This setting will result in considerably less drag. If your prop is stopped it will be on the low pitch stops and nothing you do with the prop control will have any effect until it starts running. All of this assumes that your oil system is still functioning properly. If the reason your engine is not running is an oil related problem, all bets are off most C/S Props on S/E airplanes will go to low pitch if the oil supply quits. Another tidbit is, if your propellor starts to surge or miss behave, look first at your oil temp/pressure. Often the propellor is the first clue you get about an impending oil related engine failure. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com http://www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Gordon Comfort <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Mount; RV-8
VON L ALEXANDER wrote: > > I would like to get your observation and opinion on an idea I have for > mounting my oil cooler. Von: With regard to your proposal to use 2-2" scat tubes in place of 1-3", I would suggest that the result would be less flow to the cooler with the 2". There are a couple of reasons. The cross sectional area of 2-2" tubes is less that that of 1-3" by a ratio of 9:8. In addition, the ratio of surface area (inside of the tubes) to cross sectional area is greater for the 2" by a ratio of 2:1.33. Both of these characteristics would point to lower flow with the 2". Two other factors (at least) are roughness of the inside of the duct and the inlet conditions. Scat tubing in not very smooth and this would aggravate the conditions described above. As to the inlet conditions, note that an inlet (transition from a box to a tube, for instance) that is not radiused (that has a sharp edge where the tube joins the box) behaves like a smaller opening. This element is frequently ignored but if it is, even larger losses will result. Of course the longer the duct, the less it delivers. The idea of discharging into a low pressure area is a good one if that is really what is happening. The upper plenum on an engine with downdraft cooling must be at a higher pressure than the lower if it is to function adequately but the lower plenum pressure may not be as low as one would like because all the accessory cooling (mags, fuel pumps, vacuum pump) discharges tend to diminish the pressure difference between the ram air and the free stream at the discharge lip. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 1998
From: Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: elect tach
I originally had one in my RV. It never worked right. It would start bouncing all over the place above 2000 RPM. I called UMA and they said they had never heard of this problem. I know of 2 people personally that sent their tachs in multiple times for the very same problem and never had it fixed to their satisfaction, or it came back with a different problem. UMA was not willing to send me a new or rebuilt unit to replace my brand new unit. They would only take mine in for repair and would not promise a return time. Since I was waiting to make my first flight in the airplane I was not willing to wait until they got around to fixing it. Van's graciously gave me full credit on a "real" tach, an EI digital. Now, I don't want to get off on a rant here, (with apologies to Dennis Miller) but I feel that UMA makes inferior equipment, they do not care about customer service or satisfaction, they will outright lie to you, and apparently they could care less if you ever buy anything from them again. I certainly will not. BTW, re your other post: I have a UMA fuel gauge also, and it has worked fine for 215 hours, if it ever sticks I will change to something else... Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)mci2000.com http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/ >Listers > Anyone out there that is using the UMA 2 and 1/4 in >elect tach??? I have used both the digital LED tach >and the analog one. The Led one was fairly accurate >but is difficult too see in bright sunlight. > The analog tach was 250 rpm off in the cruise range. >Sent it in for calibration and it started sticking!!! Got a new >one and although it hasn't stuck, it is off on the cruise end! >Feed back appreciated. >Stewart RV4 Den. Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Wing skins
Date: Oct 30, 1998
I agree, this is the stage I'm at and it seems to be what others have stated so it is the way that I'm planning to build mine. From: Jon Elford <jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM> Date: Wednesday, October 28, 1998 10:20 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing skins > >> >>Hey pre-punched wing guys, >> >>Visualize the root main wing rib where it attaches to the main spar and >>spar flange. This is the rib that is -(3/8) from the -0- reference >>mark. The plans show the rib's flange is flush with the end of the spar >>flange. Also the skin appears to be flush. Will's notes even mentions >>to check the skin to see if it is flush. Ain't no way mine will be >>flush. My rib and skin will be aproximately 1/8" from the end(towards >>tip) of the spar flange. I've checked the rib web measurements and >>everything is right-on. I don't see it as being a problem as long as >>skin holes and rib centerlines are ok. >> >> Any comments?? >> >>Jerry Calvert >>Edmond Ok -6a wings > >Jerry, > >If I have one piece of advice, or maybe an "I wish I had done it another >way", it would be to measure for the proper position of the main skins at >the root of the main spar and mark the rivet centerlines through the skin >holes and onto the spar flange. Do this for all the ribs and then transfer >this spacing verbatim onto the rear spar, again, carefully determining the >position of the main skin at the root. Once this is established, forget >about all the other rib spacing measurements on the plans. The whole idea >is to get the centerline holes in the properly positioned skins to line up >with the centerlines on the ribs. > >You can measure until you're blue in the face (like I did) and still come up >with little spacing discrepencies (like I did). Using the skins as a guide >will ensure success. You might take a peek at the rib angle attach bolt >holes in the spar flange strips and make sure you will be drilling the bolt >holes in the angle near it's centerline. It won't always be perfectly >centered, but it's more important to have the rivet holes in the center of >the rib than to have the bolt in the center of the angle - IMO. > >All of this rambling will make more sense as you start to see some pieces >going together. You will definitely appreciate the extra effort when the >thing is in the jig and you start drilling the skins to the skeleton - trust me! > >I make no bones about it... I was too LAZY to dig the skins out of the >bottom of the crate when I was at that stage and scoured the plans for specs >and measured and remeasured (spending twice as much time as just digging the >skins out and building my wings). All came out acceptable, but it could >have been easier. > >BTW, I wouldn't worry about the spar flanges and rib flanges being even. >Mine aren't... > >Regards, > > > > > > > > > >> >> >Jon Elford >RV6 #25201 >Banks, OR >Fuel tanks, Fuse soon... >Snowmobile coming out of mothballs >and using up my time and money..... > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Subject: Re: elect tach
Ed and listers, I would have to agree that UMA does not supply quality instruments. Unfortunatly I am stuck with the ! and 1/4 in hole in the panel for the fuel press guage! Stew Bergner RV4 Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Chris Hinch wrote: > > In "A Gift of Wings", Richard Bach wrote about a renegade flying school, > where students where taught how to *fly*, as opposed to *how* to fly. ........... This is an excellent book - very inspirational. Richard Bach is also the author of Jonathon Livingston Seagull, and another book about his adventures flying a Waco(?) across country. If anyone has spare time when not working, building, or whatever, you won't be disappointed with his writings. martin shorman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
> >Scott wrote: ><< As for running tanks dry routinely during cross country flights? > It is the only true fail proof (nearly) way of knowing what your fuel > burn per hour (assuming you are accurately timing which I'm sure >everyone > does) has been on that particular flight. In knowing exactly what >your > fuel burn per hour has been, and knowing exactly how many minutes you > have run on the other tank... you should know exactly how many >minutes of > powered flight you have left. >> > >Just one caveat: before doing this, verify that the other tank feeds >normally, prior to exhausting fuel in the first tank. Line blockages >do >happen. So does contamination. It would be a shame to run one tank >dry and >only then discover the other tank's fuel is not available...! > > Very true. I may have incorrectly assumed that everyone else flying RV's switches between tanks every hour or so (if you run a tank dry while timing its usage, you don't have to necessarily use fuel from it all at one time), if you don't, an RV is a light enough airplane that it will be quite a long ways out of roll trim when the one tank empty's while the other is still totally full. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 1998
From: Totland <totland(at)mail.algonet.se>
Subject: Re: weird altimeter
Ed, Your problem is probably instrument related (a leak?) and not due to position error. The VSI measures the rate of pressure change, not pressure level, and should therefore not be effected by the type of static port. I could see no effects on the VSI. My problem was similar to Louis', but the error in indicated airspeed was less. Obviously my solution was the same as his. The correction is proportional to V^2 and therefore hardly noticable at low speed. Ernst Totland totland(at)algonet.se RV6 SE-XOI >In a message dated 10/30/98 6:50:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, >anderson_ed(at)bah.com writes: > ><< > Ernst, > I believe I may have a similar problem with my newly flying RV-6A. My > VSI indicates 1000 feet per minute down when I am in level flight. It > reads zero on the ground and will indicate a climb by a lessening of the > down rate. Did your situation have any effect on your VSI?? I suspect I > have positive pressure in the static which would also mean I may be > going 10 mph faster than indicated especially at the higher airspeeds. > > Ed Anderson > anderson_ed(at)bah.com > RV-6A N494BW > >> > >Ed, >I used the flush ports on my RV-8 and experienced low airspeed indications. I >was a little disappointed in the speeds after flying it for the first few >times. This plane has an IO-360 (200hp) and wasn't indicating much faster >that my old RV-4 with 150hp. I used the pop rivet static ports from Van's on >the RV-4. Not until doing GPS speed comparisons, did I find that the airspeed >indicator was reading about 22mph low on the top end. It was very accurate on >the low end. I fixed the problem by experimenting with the heads of different >sized AN470 rivets glued over the flush static ports. These rivet heads were >first drilled with a 1/16" hole in the center. My airspeed is now calibrated >to within about 2 mph on the top end and seems to be right on at low speeds >also. It did not have any visible effects on my VSI. Good luck with the >problem. > >Regards, >Louis Smith >RV-8 N801RV >65 hours >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller)
Date: Oct 30, 1998
The other book is "Bridge Across Forever" . . . a partially true love story for those that don't mind a quasi-romantic novel. It, too, is excellent and contains numerous passages re: flying. Rick Jory Highlands Ranch, CO From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 6:01 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Dry Tanks, (was Sensenich 72FM Propeller) > >Chris Hinch wrote: >> > >> In "A Gift of Wings", Richard Bach wrote about a renegade flying school, >> where students where taught how to *fly*, as opposed to *how* to fly. ........... > >This is an excellent book - very inspirational. Richard Bach is also the >author of Jonathon Livingston Seagull, and another book about his >adventures flying a Waco(?) across country. If anyone has spare time >when not working, building, or whatever, you won't be disappointed with >his writings. > >martin shorman > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: WELL IT'S WORKING!
Well you guys, It's working. I had the opportunity to have a chat with MATT today and discovered that a LOT of you ARE contributing. That is a lot of you compared to past fund raisers. We are doing well but with about 1000 people on the list the vast majority of you are still sand bagging. (or is that lurking?) Well although just lurking is fine and I can understand it, I still think it would be nice if you would recognize at least the entertainment value of this list and get that contribution in now. I know, I know, SOME of you have a really, really good reason NOT to contribute and for those I'm sure I speak for the whole list when I say that I hope your next PAROLE HEARING is more successfully. But for those of you who still have access to a valid credit card or your bank still honors your checks, make that contribution NOW.... There's never been a better time! AL Credit Card contributions can be made at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Or send a check to: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 PS.....If your sending your contribution via armored car, then just send it to Gary Vanremortel's hangar at Livermore, He knows where Matt lives. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Art Robert" <edgewood(at)rt66.com>
Date: Oct 30, 1998
"unscribe" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Running a tank dry
Date: Oct 30, 1998
> Running a tank dry is NOT a problem if you have enough altitude. The > surprise of running dry and not knowing how to restart is the problem. Just think, most first starts of the day are with a dry bowl if you used the idle > cutoff. With your low winged RV, you will need to fill the carb bowl with a Cy, pulling the "idle cutoff" does NOT run the bowl dry, it only shuts off the fuel to the carby throat, the bowls remains full. However I agree it is good to know what happens ( apart from your passenger going white )and how long a restart takes when you do one one dry. But try it over a large airfield first. Brian ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: GPS summary
Date: Oct 30, 1998
I have owned both. I am sorry I sold my Lowrance as it was much easier to use! From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> Date: Friday, October 30, 1998 11:12 AM Subject: RV-List: GPS summary RVers, Thanks to all who responded to my question about the Garmin III Pilot and the Lowrance 100. I received many, off-list responses and sent off-list "thank-you's". Hope I didn't miss anybody. More people who responded had experience with the Lowrance than the Garmin units. No matter which unit they had, the responders were happy with their units. The only negatives that I received were on the Garmin. The Garmin's buttons were judged too small and hard to use bt some users and the screen hard to view. Since the Lowrance has about the same screen size, I'd imagine that this screen would be difficult to view on it, as well, although I don't remember any Lowrance users complaining. Some folks that chose the Lowrance commented that the felt that the Lowarance offered the best value, including as standard some items that Garmin charges extra for. I looked at both Web pages. The Lowrance website is much better done and is more informative that the Garmin site. I downloaded the manual from the Lowrance site and was able to get a good feel for the operation of the unit. Several respondents commented on the great service that they received from Lowrance as far as software and hardware updates. Database updates are cheaper with the Lowrance. Lowrance has an obstruction data base, by the way, which could be really useful to some pilots. One factor that appeals to me with the Lowarance is the ability to download ground map information from a CD, turning the 100 into a handy item to take along while hiking/fishing. Their web page shows the detail available with this mode of operation. Sounds like just the thing to keep me from geting lost while tramping around the mountains, hiking and fishing. All of those rock and trees look the same to me:) You can also download stuff for boating. They have symbols for water hazards which might come in handy. I have no interest in "ocean stuff" ever since seing "Jaws", though. The web page for Lowrance is: www.lowrance.com/ Even if you're not interested in the unit, I think their web page is fun just because it's so well done. Regards, Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com + + name="Steven B Janicki.vcf" filename="Steven B Janicki.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Janicki;Steven;B FN:Steven B Janicki ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center TITLE:Sr. Director TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740 TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165 ADR;WORK:;;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA URL:http://www.oracle.com URL:http://www.oracle.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com REV:19981031T032305Z END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Subject: Re: It's painless! (and long)
In a message dated 98-10-30 Bob Skinner wrote: > Give up a couple of fine cigars... I am making my contributioin to the list this very evening. I might even skip a Saturday night dine-out to pay for it. But - I'll give up my Arturo Fuentes and Macanudo's when you pry my cold, dead fingers... you get the idea. -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV8 flap actuator blocks
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Greetings folks, I'm having difficulty fitting the plastic flap actuator support blocks to the fuselage. As George mentions in the video, he had to trim the blocks to fit. Hey George, just HOW MUCH did you have to trim? According to my measurements, I need to remove a total of 3/8" of material for the actuator to fit the width of the fuselage. The blocks get rather thin around the 3/16" bolt holes if both blocks are trimmed equally. Unfortunately, I don't see any way around this. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has encountered this. Any suggestions? Brian Denk RV8 #379 fuselage bits n pieces. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net>
Subject: Dry tanks:
Date: Oct 30, 1998
Hi Guys & Gals Really thought there would be more comments on the performance of the prop than their is, however seeing as how the main interest seems to be dry tanks I would like to relate some of my experiences in the fuel deparment and what I have learned during the past 55 years of flying. When riding as a passenger in someone else's aircraft I try not to interfere to much unless something is going on that might effect the length of my stay on mother earth. As a passenger riding in the RH front seat I like to know the amount of fuel that is on board at take-off and see that the fuel selector is on a tank that will a least get us to a safe altitude. Having the engine quit due to fuel starvation when I know there is fuel available in another tank dosen't cause me much concern once we reach say 2000 ft. Then when entering the arrival phase make sure the fuel selector is on the fullest tank and boost pump is on when available. Also when flying low level want to be sure not to run one dry. Over the years have experienced many of this type of engine stopages, fortunetly only three or four self inflicted. In years past when taking my proficiency rides for my commercial or transport licence it was common practice for the check pilot to distract you then shut the fuel off to see how you handled it. My experience with some of the comments such as shock cooling, engine damage,blocked fuel lines, selected on both tanks to name a few has been as follows. As I recall never had a restart take longer than 20-30 seconds, usually 10 seconds or less with a carburator especially with a high wing aircraft and 30 seconds would be the extreme with fuel injection. Cylinder heads don't seem to have time to cool that much in this time frame. Have never had any engine damage resulting from this that I am aware of. Have never experienced blocked fuel lines. On the matter of fuel selector on both, had a fuel cap come off in flight at 6000 on top with a C185 on floats. Was unaware of it and the fuel was sucked out of both tanks with the engine quiting 35 min. into the flight with four hours fuel on board at take-off. Have never flown with a selector on both since. On another occasion had a RH rear fuel cap come off on a DC3 but only lost three inches of fuel. There is always something good comes out of these dicussions in this case it was the chap that talked about side slipping the RV. I am sure that most of us slip with the left wing down . This tells us to be selected on the right tank when ever possible if side slipping. Anyway on my original post re the prop. the only reason I mentioned the dry tank was to point out that with fuel injection it may take longer than you expect to get a restart. Eustace Bowhay C-GHAY RV 6 20383 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com>
Subject: Re: WELL IT'S WORKING!
Date: Oct 30, 1998
> >Well you guys, It's working. I had the opportunity to have a chat with MATT >today and discovered that a LOT of you ARE contributing. Geez, Al, if you worked for NPR they would only have to have a fund drive every couple of years. My check is in the mail. Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris East" <easty(at)tm.net.my>
Subject: What the List has Done for me
Date: Oct 31, 1998
Hi all, Ive been given my 5 mins of fame for making a donation to the list so im going to use it to fill Matt's database. (Sorry Matt) I just wanted to tell you a bit about my history and how the List has help me out. Im an Aussie that first got the rv-bug when i was living in Adelaide when one of the guys at work said he was building an airplane so I went and had a look (RV-4) and it all went from there, I found the list and the Web page and I was hooked. In the middle of the year I got posted to Butterworth in Malaysia with the RAAF and would publicly like the thank Leslie for putting me in contact with the ONLY rv'er (excuse me if there's more) in this country of about 16 million people, who I have now become good friends with and who took me for my first flight in an RV. I always get a big rush of enthusiasm when I read what people are doing on the List. From the list I have found many enjoyable paths that have lead off into the internet, going to the many homepages where builders proudly show there own projects from all over the world. Ive met some of the nicest people the I have ever chatted to on RV-ICQ and got to know them like Family, all because of one post on the List, otherwise I would have not ever known about it. I just didnt realise how many leads I


October 26, 1998 - October 31, 1998

RV-Archive.digest.vol-fs