RV-Archive.digest.vol-ft
October 31, 1998 - November 05, 1998
got from the List until i sat back and thought about it.
I would also like reflect on the very special "family atmosphere" that the
List and RV-er's have because its all to easy to let things slide than it is
to help someone with a problem.
So please help Matt to help other's the same way you would help the next
RV-er down the road. After all it has to be one of the most unique Clubs
that we all belong to, the only Club I know of were you wear the Club's
emblem on your face ........."The RV Grin"
Chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Thanks to you fellas who have had problems with the UMA tachs, I
have sent a note to Aircraft Spruce to see if I can return mine. I spent
way too much money on the thing to buy crap. It was just under $300.
I could have bought a mechanical for a lot less money and will most
likely do that. I want something with an hour meter on it. A Mitchell
should be just fine.
Again, thanks for the heads up. Now, if I can just get A/S to live up to
their customer service promises. Obviously, UMA is not good at it.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Wiring. One step forward, two steps back)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
I would like to say, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels
this way, that I am sure glad Eustace is active on the list.
Several great posts and he sure does know how to stimulate
a thread!
Being a low-time pilot, I sure learn a great deal about the
pro's and con's of an issue from the list. I have found the thread
on purposely running a tank dry to be very informative.
There have been excellent posts on both sides of the issue.
I certainly feel like I have enough information to make
an informed decision on the issue. Thanks to all.
This is more than reason enough to make a contribution to Matt.
I encourage everyone else to do so too.
Randy Pflanzer RV-6 "Special Angel"
N417G - Finishing Engine Install
>
>Hi Guys & Gals
>
>Really thought there would be more comments on the performance of the prop
>than their is, however seeing as how the main interest seems to be dry
>tanks I would like to relate some of my experiences in the fuel deparment
>and what I have learned during the past 55 years of flying.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 flap actuator blocks |
Don't know about the RV8 but I assume it has a torque tube
that goes across the fuselage like the RV4. I shortned the
torque tube on my 4 to get it too fit.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 flap actuator blocks |
Brian You have to make a counter bore in the blocks to clear the welds on
the flap arm
regards
Tom wfact01(at)aol.com RV80013
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List 72FM8 was Dry tanks: |
>
>Hi Guys & Gals
>
>Really thought there would be more comments on the performance of the prop
Eustace,
I really appreciated your report on the fine performance of the 72FM8,
especially in light of the following.
I was a little surprised you did not comment on the shape of the propeller.
After I got mine I noticed the swept or sheared tip shape on my propeller is
opposite what is shown on the Sensenich web page. The tip shape is a tad
odd anyway, but with the tip of the shear shape at the LEADING edge rather
than the trailing edge as in the photos it is decidedly odd looking.
I started worrying about this to the point where I decided there was a
possibility Sensenich had accidently put my tip on backward. I e-mailed Ed
at Sensenich about my concerns. He responded that my propeller is correct.
They accidently put the tip on backward on the prototype and went ahead and
tested it that way. He said the vibration and performance tests came out so
good they just left it that way. Apparently the propeller photos on the web
page were of a pre-prototype.
Go figure!
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q About to tackle cowling, wiring almost finished
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List 72FM8 was Dry Tanks |
>
>Hi Guys & Gals
>
>Really thought there would be more comments on the performance of the prop
Eustace,
I really appreciated your report on the fine performance of the 72FM8,
especially in light of the following.
I was a little surprised you did not comment on the shape of the propeller.
After I got mine I noticed the swept or sheared tip shape on my propeller is
opposite what is shown on the Sensenich web page. The tip shape is a tad
odd anyway, but with the tip of the shear shape at the LEADING edge rather
than the trailing edge as in the photos it is decidedly odd looking.
I started worrying about this to the point where I decided there was a
possibility Sensenich had accidently put my tip on backward. I e-mailed Ed
at Sensenich about my concerns. He responded that my propeller is correct.
They accidently put the tip on backward on the prototype and went ahead and
tested it that way. He said the vibration and performance tests came out so
good they just left it that way. Apparently the propeller photos on the web
page were of a pre-prototype.
Go figure!
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q About to tackle cowling, wiring almost finished
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 flap actuator blocks |
In a message dated 10/31/98 12:18:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I'm having difficulty fitting the plastic flap actuator support blocks
to the fuselage. As George mentions in the video, he had to trim the
blocks to fit. Hey George, just HOW MUCH did you have to trim? According
to my measurements, I need to remove a total of 3/8" of material for the
actuator to fit the width of the fuselage. The blocks get rather thin
around the 3/16" bolt holes if both blocks are trimmed equally.
Unfortunately, I don't see any way around this. I'm sure I'm not the
only one who has encountered this. Any suggestions?
>>
Brian,
I just fit these blocks last weekend. I trimmed the width at the rear portion
of my blocks to 11/16" in order to fit around the F-889 longeron. I also had
to slightly trim the rear top to fit under the same longeron. The other
problem I had was the rear most pre-punched hole did not match. The pre-
punched hole in the floor was too wide, so I ended up drilling an offset hole
about a 1/4" inboard. The front hole matched fine. Van's would do better to
leave this hole out since the squareness of the assembly determines the
position of this rear hole. Although, once you mount the plate nut it didn't
create a problem. I hope this helps.
Rick McBride
80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 flap actuator blocks |
Brian,
On my RV-4 I had to shorten the flap actuator torque tube to make it fit. I
don't know whether the RV-8 has the same setup, though.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST mounting remote oil cooler
>
>I'm having difficulty fitting the plastic flap actuator support blocks
>to the fuselage. As George mentions in the video, he had to trim the
>blocks to fit. Hey George, just HOW MUCH did you have to trim?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net (stan burchett) |
| Subject: | TAIL & WING Kit FOR SALE |
Death of my partner, a 737 driver, forces sale of his completed
empennage and partially completed wing kit (1 wing done). His workmanship
is at the very top of the scale. Located in Norfolk VA area nr PHF
(NewportNews/ Williamsburg) Only asking $4,500. Good tools avail also.
Contact Stan Burchett 757-867-7244 or sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
>> In "A Gift of Wings", Richard Bach wrote about a renegade flying school,
>> where students where taught how to *fly*, as opposed to *how* to fly.
>This is an excellent book - very inspirational. Richard Bach is also the
>author of Jonathon Livingston Seagull, and another book about his
>adventures flying a Waco(?) across country.
Actually it was a Parks he barnstormed the country with. We all need a
little inspiration. Good aviation writing is hard to find. When Corsair is
busy doing other things, any of Richard Bach's books are well worth the time.
'Stranger to the Ground': thoughts while flying an F-86 around.
'Nothing By Chance': barnstorming in the '60s in a Parks.
'A Gift of Wings': a collection of really cool flying short stories.
'Jonathan Livingston Seagull': about life (the book that made him famous).
'Illusions': more about flying and life and its mysteries.
'Bridge Across Forever': meeting the love of your life. And flying.
'One': expanding the relationship.
'Running From Safety': exploring hidden self.
Richard used to be a frequent contributor to the trade magazines. I learned
about him early on in my flying career and he was a constant source of
encouragement. He speaks from the heart, says what we think as pilots. I
can't believe everyone hasn't heard of him or read all his books. Some of
his writings are controversial; all of them make you think. Winter is fast
approaching; curl up with some good reading when the rivet gun is too cold
to hold.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Overcast and rain today.........
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Mount; RV-8 |
Gordon:
Everything you stated in your posting is true, but there is one important feature
of an oil cooler that you did not mention; the need for uniform airflow across
the
cooling surface. While a single 3" tube may carry somewhat less volume than two
2"
tubes, if the two tubes provide a better (meaning more even) distribution of
airflow across the surface area of the cooler, it could result in better
performance. Trial and error tell the tale.
Regards
Joe Walker
RV6 Houston
Panelizing
Gordon Comfort wrote:
>
> VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
> >
> > I would like to get your observation and opinion on an idea I have for
> > mounting my oil cooler.
>
> Von: With regard to your proposal to use 2-2" scat tubes in place of
> 1-3", I would suggest that the result would be less flow to the cooler
> with the 2". There are a couple of reasons. The cross sectional area
> of 2-2" tubes is less that that of 1-3" by a ratio of 9:8. In addition,
> the ratio of surface area (inside of the tubes) to cross sectional area
> is greater for the 2" by a ratio of 2:1.33. Both of these
> characteristics would point to lower flow with the 2". Two other factors
> (at least) are roughness of the inside of the duct and the inlet
> conditions. Scat tubing in not very smooth and this would aggravate the
> conditions described above. As to the inlet conditions, note that an
> inlet (transition from a box to a tube, for instance) that is not
> radiused (that has a sharp edge where the tube joins the box) behaves
> like a smaller opening. This element is frequently ignored but if it
> is, even larger losses will result. Of course the longer the duct, the
> less it delivers. The idea of discharging into a low pressure area is a
> good one if that is really what is happening. The upper plenum on an
> engine with downdraft cooling must be at a higher pressure than the
> lower if it is to function adequately but the lower plenum pressure may
> not be as low as one would like because all the accessory cooling (mags,
> fuel pumps, vacuum pump) discharges tend to diminish the pressure
> difference between the ram air and the free stream at the discharge lip.
>
> Gordon Comfort
> N363GC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: weird altimeter |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> >Am I crazy, is it crazy, or is this normal & I slept through that session of
> >ground school?
> Charlie,
>
> Are the fuselage static ports flush ones, or were they made out of domed
> pop rivets like Van says in the plans?
>
> I suspect that flush ports would read a higher pressure (and lower
> altitude) than the specified domed ports.
>
> If the blind encoder and the altimeter agree, this sounds like a straight
> forward error in the static source (know as position error). This would
> also affect the accuracy of your airspeed indicator (it would be reading
> higher than the actual calibrated airspeed).
>
> See the flight test part of the links page on my website for info on
> measuring the position and instrument errors.
> http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 80427 (wings)
> khorton@cyberus.ca http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
> Ottawa, Canada
>
OK, the credit card payment will be off to Matt as soon as my card & computer are
in the same room.
Thanks, Kevin, for catching this, and to someone else (sorry, forgot your name)
for the correction on the a/s error. I just got through test flying after
attaching 2 pop rivet heads with rtv. Magic: alt is dead on at high speed, & a/s
came up about 10 kts at cruise (I think; normally I ignore it except on takeoff
&
landing or when I might get near vne).
A much bigger issue: If I didn't know about this, & the builder of my plane
didn't, how many others are flying with 100- 200 feet of error on cross countries.
Should Van's make a bigger deal of this in the plans?
Thanks again to Matt & all listers.
Charlie
flying (more accurately) -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
Would like to install my motor for the electric flaps befor fitting wing.
Any suggestions from from experience would be appreciated.
RV6A/fusleage
planejoe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com> |
I've been reading comments about UMA instrument quality recently in "the
list"
How about the imported flight instruments sold by Van's. I'm thinking of
the BC-3 Vertical Speed, BG-3E Altimeter and the UMA-16-310-241D
Airspeed Indicator.
Has anyone had bad luck with these instruments.
I have already purchased the UMA 2 1/2" tach (which received bad reveiws
on the list) and was thinking of purchasing the matching 2 1/2" UMA
Manifold pressure guage, any comments?
Peter (RV6 Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Mount; RV-8 |
That is why you need a transition. Look at the oil cooler installation on
a Skyhawk.
From: Joe Walker <joewalk@hal-pc.org>
Date: Saturday, October 31, 1998 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooler Mount; RV-8
>
>Gordon:
>
>Everything you stated in your posting is true, but there is one important
feature
>of an oil cooler that you did not mention; the need for uniform airflow
across the
>cooling surface. While a single 3" tube may carry somewhat less volume than
two 2"
>tubes, if the two tubes provide a better (meaning more even) distribution
of
>airflow across the surface area of the cooler, it could result in better
>performance. Trial and error tell the tale.
>
>Regards
>
>Joe Walker
>RV6 Houston
>Panelizing
>
>Gordon Comfort wrote:
>
>>
>> VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>> >
>> > I would like to get your observation and opinion on an idea I have for
>> > mounting my oil cooler.
>>
>> Von: With regard to your proposal to use 2-2" scat tubes in place of
>> 1-3", I would suggest that the result would be less flow to the cooler
>> with the 2". There are a couple of reasons. The cross sectional area
>> of 2-2" tubes is less that that of 1-3" by a ratio of 9:8. In addition,
>> the ratio of surface area (inside of the tubes) to cross sectional area
>> is greater for the 2" by a ratio of 2:1.33. Both of these
>> characteristics would point to lower flow with the 2". Two other factors
>> (at least) are roughness of the inside of the duct and the inlet
>> conditions. Scat tubing in not very smooth and this would aggravate the
>> conditions described above. As to the inlet conditions, note that an
>> inlet (transition from a box to a tube, for instance) that is not
>> radiused (that has a sharp edge where the tube joins the box) behaves
>> like a smaller opening. This element is frequently ignored but if it
>> is, even larger losses will result. Of course the longer the duct, the
>> less it delivers. The idea of discharging into a low pressure area is a
>> good one if that is really what is happening. The upper plenum on an
>> engine with downdraft cooling must be at a higher pressure than the
>> lower if it is to function adequately but the lower plenum pressure may
>> not be as low as one would like because all the accessory cooling (mags,
>> fuel pumps, vacuum pump) discharges tend to diminish the pressure
>> difference between the ram air and the free stream at the discharge lip.
>>
>> Gordon Comfort
>> N363GC
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Kitfox for Sale |
Listers,
A while back I thought I remembered someone wanting to find a Kitfox for
sale. I have a friend who has one and told him I would post it to the
list. He just finished a great looking RV-6 and although he is very
modest, he does excellent work. If you know of anyone interested, please
contact
Joel Spray
806/347-2484
Matador, TX
Kitfox III
582 Rotax
203 Hrs TT
White w/Blue and Red Stripes
Comm
xpndr
Encoder
Intercom
Elt.
$16,000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <donmack(at)flash.net> |
Go ahead and do it. The control linkage between the flap and the horizontal
EF tube that runs behind the seats is not made until the wings are
installed.
Don Mack
RV-6A Fuselage
Ercoupe 415-D
donmack(at)flash.net
icq 16679225
http://www.flash.net/~donmack
>
>Would like to install my motor for the electric flaps befor fitting wing.
>Any suggestions from from experience would be appreciated.
>
>RV6A/fusleage
>planejoe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Peter,
I don't know anything about UMA airspeed indicators.
I can speak from experience on the UMA tach and fuel
pressure guage!! As far as my dealings with UMA they
are very slow in responding to problems and generally
Can't resolve them! I have purchased 3 fuel pressure gages
( 1 and 1/4 ) AND AM STILL HAVING PROBLEMS WITH
THEM STICKING! They are so unreliable I carry a new spare!
As for the tach (analog) I have been thru two of thoes.
So far the second one hasn't stuck but it is fairly inaccurate
at the cruise range. I gave up sending things back to them
and hearing they could find no problems with them! They
think I imagine these problems!!! They don't care!!!!
Do your self a big favor and stay away from the tach and
fuel pressure gages!!
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
Does anyone know the purpose of the F-6120E Battery Box Support Plate?
Thanks in advance
Brian Eckstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
When I click on the credit card donation option on Matt's donation web site I
get a message that there's a problem with the secutity certificate, and that
the identity certificate has expired, and that my credit card info won't be
protected.
I'm accessing through Compuserve which could be causing the problem, but is
anyone else getting that message?
Joel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
>
>Does anyone know the purpose of the F-6120E Battery Box Support Plate?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>Brian Eckstein
>
It looks to me like it is riveted onto the battery box 'bottom' and it
then spreads the force on the floor over a longer part of the floor
'angle'. On my RV-6, that part wasn't a rectangle; the battery box
was a little higher and that part was wider in the front tapering down
to the back.
If you leave it off, you might have to limit your 'g' forces to 0.73%
less than spec.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
I have a BG series altimeter which is typical Chinese quality; that is,
rough on the edges and heavy. Don't know how it works though. As to UMA 2
1/4" manifold pressure gauge (or other), from my experience, don't!
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>I've been reading comments about UMA instrument quality recently in "the
>list"
>
>How about the imported flight instruments sold by Van's. I'm thinking of
>the BC-3 Vertical Speed, BG-3E Altimeter and the UMA-16-310-241D
>Airspeed Indicator.
>
>Has anyone had bad luck with these instruments.
>
>I have already purchased the UMA 2 1/2" tach (which received bad reveiws
>on the list) and was thinking of purchasing the matching 2 1/2" UMA
>Manifold pressure guage, any comments?
>
>
>Peter (RV6 Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Belany <jsbelany(at)win.bright.net> |
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 20:29:06 -0600
From: Joe Belany <jsbelany(at)win.bright.net>
Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com, cbundy(at)mci2000.com
Subject: Wig wags
Gentleman, I am going to send a group reply to save some typing :-).
The part number from Gal's for the traffic flasher is #L-FS020 and is
currently priced at $39.99. This is a solid state and completely sealed
unit. Installation consists of 5 wires: postive, negative, switch on,
passenger side, and return (to driver's side).
I was asked about mounting location, I mount the units on the firewall
of our squads and I use #14 wire (a little better current flow), seems
to work just fine. This saves the hassle of mounting the unit within
12" of the lights as some flashers recommend. As far as current
consumption I am not sure, I know automotive lights have quite a draw
but I do not know the specifics.
I don't guarantee it will work for your applications as I have never
tried it, however these cheap units that were discussed on the list work
for our application, we just found the traffic flasher as being the
"best". Very heavy duty and super simple installation.
If you have any questions, let me know. I can always grab and ohm meter
and check the exact operation of the unit. Hope this helps you out,
when I get to the lighting considerations this is the way I intend to
go. Joe
RV-6 Empenage
Flying is the second greatest
thing known to man.
Landing is the first!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
"RV-List: donation" (Oct 31, 8:57pm)
>
>When I click on the credit card donation option on Matt's donation web site I
>get a message that there's a problem with the secutity certificate, and that
>the identity certificate has expired, and that my credit card info won't be
>protected.
>I'm accessing through Compuserve which could be causing the problem, but is
>anyone else getting that message?
>
>Joel
Joel and Listers,
This usually means that you have an older browser with a bug in the SSL code.
I have had one other complaint regarding the expired certificate error message.
The person was using Netscape 3.0. When they tried Netscape 4.0 it went
through without a problem. The Matronics SSL certificate is valid through
April 22, 1999. This can be verified by clicking on the "Security" button
in Netscape, or by clicking File->Properties->Certificates in Internet
Explorer. Here is what would should see with Netscape when looking at
the certificate:
========================================================================
This Certificate belongs to:
matronics.com
dralle(at)matronics.com
Matronics
Livermore, California, US
This Certificate was issued by:
Thawte Server CA
server-certs(at)thawte.com
Certification Services Division
Thawte Consulting cc
Cape Town, Western Cape, ZA
Serial Number: 15:C9
This Certificate is valid from Wed Apr 22, 1998 to Thu Apr 22, 1999
Certificate Fingerprint:
BC:1F:75:E9:AE:55:46:3A:D0:4F:0B:67:D3:F5:70:FE
========================================================================
Internet Explorer should give basically the same info its just a little
harder to read.
I would highly recommend upgrading to the latest version of your browser
if you are having any problems with certificates since it would be
unclear whether or not your browser would be really working correctly and
encrypting as it should.
Again, I was to stress that the Matronics web server _does_ indeed have a
valid security certificate.
Thanks for your support!
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
Matronics
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Updated RV8 webpage |
Greetings listers, lurkers, builders, dreamers...
I've added a few more RV8 fuselage pics to my webpage. They were taken
with a digital camera. Too bad the photographer isn't as good as the
camera!
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/hangar/9656/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
> Does anyone know the purpose of the F-6120E Battery Box Support Plate?
Someone at Van's told me it was a leftover from the old floor mounted
rudder pedals, so I left it off. Supposedly, the old pedals required some
material be removed and the 6120E strengthened it; I can't confirm.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Mount; RV-8 |
While a single 3" tube may carry somewhat less volume than two 2"
> tubes, if the two tubes provide a better (meaning more even) distribution
of
> airflow across the surface area of the cooler, it could result in better
> performance. Trial and error tell the tale.
A single 3" diameter tube can be expected to carry more than twice what two
2" diameter tubes can carry, everything else being equal. It works out
that fluid flow through a tube is proportional to the diameter to the
fourth power. Try blowing through equal lengths of 1/4 and 3/8 pipe.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deal Fair" <dealfair(at)bcni.net> |
Listers,
I offer my ABJECT APOLOGIES to all for quoting my Dear Departed Dad on
the
subject of "Silos."
I was just HORRIFIED to read an off-list response of mine.
Good Grief John, did you have to post my entire message???? No flame to
or say anything that can (and will) come back to haunt you.
Deal (SHUT MY MOUTH) Fair
George West, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
>
>>> In "A Gift of Wings", Richard Bach wrote about a renegade flying school,
>>> where students where taught how to *fly*, as opposed to *how* to fly.
>
>>This is an excellent book - very inspirational. Richard Bach is also the
>>author of Jonathon Livingston Seagull, and another book about his
>>adventures flying a Waco(?) across country.
Several years ago I read an article about paragliding, I think in AOPA's
magazine. It was written by Richard Bach. It sounded like an exciting way
to get airborne, so I gave it a try. A couple of years later, he was the
speaker at a joint meeting of the local (Seattle area) paragliders and hang
glider's clubs. The subject of the talk was flying safety. If you have
read any of his work, you can imagine that Richard Bach talking about flying
safety would make for an interesting evening. The gist of his message that
night was summed up in a little yellow card that he passed out to all of us.
On one side of the card, which for some reason I still have with me, it says
"Vivo Volare. Alter Diem" which I believe translates as "Live to fly
another day", and on the other side of the card, it says "Captain Chicken".
The point he was trying to make to this macho bunch of people who insist on
running off mountains and soaring alongside eagles was to have the courage
to say "No. Not today." This was our license to say that we didn't feel
quite right about flying today. Maybe this belongs with the blue card with
a hole in it that I used to see in the Air Force. It was an Instrument
Ticket. If you held it up to the sky and the color matched the card, then
you could fly.
I remember that Richard Bach also said that night that the amount of
judgement required to fly an aircraft was inversely proportional to the
gross weight of the aircraft. (This man knew his audience) In a 747, you
have checklists and procedures and radar and airways and glide slopes that
tell you exactly what to do; in a paraglider you have the feel and sound of
the wind in your face and not much else.
Some of his books have reached a little beyond the stretch of my
imagination, but I read them anyway. I'll bet Corsair does too.
Terry
RV-8A rudder
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
> How about the danger of slipping such that the tank (with low fuel
> quantity) is down. I found out (at altitude) that with fuel levels of
less
> than 1/4 tank, slipping, with that wing low, caused fuel starvation in as
> little as 30 seconds. Has anybody else done this test?
This was the cause of fatal accident in a Cessna 337 (4 dead, 20,000+ hour
pilot) near here recently. It was flying an unbalanced turn (inboard wing
kept low by use of top rudder ) to improve visibility below them. It is
something to be very aware of, especially with shallow tanks such as wing
tanks. I don't recall it ever being mentioned by an instructor. If you are
doing a yawed flyby at low altitude you need to be very aware of which tank
is feeding. Certainly something worth checking. You dont need to stop the
engine just watch the fuel pressure gauge, which most people seem to have
now. Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Check the date on your computer. Your email shows October 19. If your computer
is
not set to the proper date, you will get that message.
Moe
AB320FLYER(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> When I click on the credit card donation option on Matt's donation web site I
> get a message that there's a problem with the secutity certificate, and that
> the identity certificate has expired, and that my credit card info won't be
> protected.
> I'm accessing through Compuserve which could be causing the problem, but is
> anyone else getting that message?
>
> Joel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ammeter and shunt question |
>
>
><< While looking at schematics and notes,
> I found that I may, or may not, need a shunt for my ammeter. I know
> that some ammeters have internal shunts. How does one know if the
> ammeter has an internal shunt or needs an external? Mine did not
> come with one; but, we know that many things do not come with
> everything needed to get them up and running. >>
>
>How big are the terminals on the gauge? Large terminals >10-32 would likely
>indicate internal shunt. I'd sure hate to run 6-8 AWG wires to and from an
>internal shunt ammeter on the panel. I would recommend a call to Mitchell
>(ACS can give you a number for them). Perhaps there is such a thing as a
>standard shunt, but I haven't heard of one.
Some of my readers have traded their internal shunt meters for
external shunt meters. Except for replacment of existing ammeters
carryover from 1930's automotive. Today, internally shunted ammeters
account for a significan portion of compass swing problems and
magnetically conducted noise. New designs should strive to keep
major current carrying conductors away from the panel . . . ideally
completely out of the cockpit. Check with Mitchel. If your
instrument is new, has all original packing materials, they
may swap with you.
Ammeter shunts are standard in a way. Externally shunted ammeters
are designed for 50 mV full scale. You then select a shunt appropriate
to the system. The ammeter on our website is a good example. A single
instrument has been fitted with shunts for alternators ranging
8 to 125 amps. The other nice thing about an external shunt is
that if you change to a different size alternator in the future,
you can easily change the shunt to match without touching the panel
mounted instrument.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | re: IFR training in an RV-6A? |
>I think the point of having an extra AI with an independent power source
is to be
>able to detect gyro or vacuum system failure quickly; therefore, one
checks the
>standby to be sure it's not DIFFERENT from the primary. I am told that,
perhaps,
>the most difficult failure to detect is the slow death of an AI in the
soup, and
>it's very dangerous. There should be no difference between the two AIs;
if there
>is, it's a simple matter to decide which one is correct by cross checking
your
>other instruments.
Does this really take TWO attitude indicators? First, active notification
of vacuum pump failure is just as important as active notification of
alternator failure. A variety of simple, vacuum switches can be pressed
to this task. Knowing that vacuum is good, what is the likelyhood that
both AI and DG go tits-up at the same time? If you're having trouble
holding heading -and- attitude, one of those guys is lying. Thats what
the turn-coordinator is for . . . to arbitrate the argument between DG
and AI and serve as primary attitude instrument in case the pump barfs.
The systems we've flown with for decades (given benefit of enhancement
like active failure notice for power) are IMHO quite capable of saving
us from our worst fears. But ya gotta be familiar with the failure modes,
extend your nervous system into more of the ship's systems, and be
comfortable with the alternative flight modes when something does
crap.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gusndale(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 10/30/98 9:53:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ebowhay(at)shuswap.net writes:
>
> Hi Guys & Gals
>
> Really thought there would be more comments on the performance of the prop
> than their is, however seeing as how the main interest seems to be dry
> tanks I would like to relate some of my experiences in the fuel deparment
> and what I have learned during the past 55 years of flying.
>
Eustace,
Speaking for myself and probably many others, I'm very interested in the
performance of the new sensenich fixed pitch prop for the 0-360. I'm probably
going to order that prop if the reports on it continue to be good. I just
don't have any new information to offer the list about it since I'm not flying
yet. I'll bet a lot of people are interested in this discussion and the
apparent lack of responses is just because their are so few of those props
actually flying right now.
Please keep us updated on how you are liking it.
Dale Wotring
Ridgefield, WA
RV-6A (Fuse just out of jig)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | How to flatten a dent in the LE? |
Hi Listers,
Whilst closing my left wing, I dropped my bucking bar. It fell through one
of the spar lightening holes (wing is in a wing stand, LE down), and
dinged the LE skin. The dent protrudes maybe 3/32" (looks and feels much
worse! :-( ) where the corner of the bucking bar hit. Of course, Murphy's
Law applies and it was the top of the LE that got hit.
So, how do I go about getting rid of this unsightly pimple? Can I just
flatten (or invert it) with a mallet and fill any remaining dents? Or will
the skin have been weakened by the impact and need some reinforcement?
Frank.
frankv(at)kai.ee.cit.ac.nz Frank van der Hulst
This is my old account. For witty signature, etc
email me at frankv(at)pec.co.nz.
My home page is http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | A Story From A Friend of Ours |
Guys and Gals,
I just heard from a friend of ours and thought you would enjoy this too.
Don't forget ot make your own contributuion! AL
A View From Above
> What is it like to have the last fitting connected, the last
>check done, and now face up to strapping in to fly this creation at last ?
>Well, many builders may have stayed flying and current and fear nothing.
>Others have only built and dreamed and fear everything.
> The question may not be one of much import at all if you are
>getting good instruction from a friend, but I am thinking about the time
>that you must do it alone. Does the heart pound a bit ? Do the fingers
>tremble just a bit ? Is that smile a bit strained if it is there at all ?
>.....It was "yes" to all of the above for me. And not just because this had
>a tail wheel on top of all that. After all, I am a senior citizen and this
>pursuit is not common for folk that are expected to be satisfied in his
>favorite chair.
> Well, the simple fact was that the RV was not designed to bite me or
>make me feel afraid. It is a revelation to find that she will actually take
>you by the grip and guide you through the hard part. Feed in the tap, keep
>some rudder in and just stay there and in brief seconds, she becomes light,
>touches right or left once more the runway, and you become light and
>climbing away.
> Now it is grand ! I feel much better now and turning away, I go to
>find the view I know so well.
> Indian summer has gone and rain has come to the rain forest.
>The ground has lost most of the color and patches of fog and low mist are
>placed here and there like checkers on a board.
> Fun to fly below a strong and dirty overcast where the ceiling is well
>defined and at times I find a small fog bank to blast through on my way
>toward the hills over there.
> Looking down, I see the tracks and a train that looks like a model from
>here. How simple and benign it looks from my perch, nothing like the risk
>of when I won a footrace with a freight train or nearly lost my legs from
>an engine.....long ago....down there too, I see where my pal Bobby's big
>brother and his two friends shot down two young policemen after a being
>cornered there when a bank robbery went bad. They paid the big price for
>that.
>Funny, we never dreamt that we were riff-raff.
> It is more peaceful now, but still looks the same. It is safer up
>here.
>There are much happier things to see and do with the RV and I follow the
>landscape, turning this way and that with just the merest pressure on the
>stick. Bank it over and keep turning and she will stay there quite nicely
>while you have time to pick out what it is you are searching for below.
>Keep it up and you will fly into your own slipstream. That is one of RV's
>little jokes. A little tug at your funny bone.
> Out here, with no one else around, the real fun of speed comes home as
>I follow the rivers twists, the sand bars now grey and littered with dying
>salmon and the odd bear churning the water chasing the bounty.
> Trees are shrouded in heavy mist and hide the hills and cumulo-granite
>that wait for the winter snowfall. If I keep going like this, I will find
>the answer to my childhood question, "What lies beyond those mountains"?
>..more mountains.
> RV is also very satisfyingly fast. When at last you head for home and
>you are called to report in at point "B", they always wonder how it is that
>you do just that so soon after being told to..... Cessnas take a lot
>longer.
> I don't like long drag-in approaches. They cause collisions, but this
>day, I feel as though I was given Cadillac treatment (besides, in this
>murk, the fainter hearts are ground bound around a coffee mug). I am
>cleared straight in from 3 miles off. I'm still showing 160, so I pull her
>back, she is just loping now, speed comes back, the runway is a black strip
>straight away on the horizon, coming closer, altimeter unwinding slowly,
>one notch of flap, not much change, another notch and she gears down,
>runway looming larger, straight on track, over the fence and finally just a
>touch of throttle to clear the plugs, spinner just up a bit, and she
>touches on all three. One of my best.
> I can fly a Corsair, I know I can. Can you fly a Mustang ? I'll bet
>you can.
>Kids that were teen-agers could and did. We can take our own RV/Mustangs
>and take the stick, set the teeth, call up the courage and faith in our
>selves, fight down the fear (fear is normal in moderation) and let this
>wonderful bird show us what we can do together. I'll bet you didn't know
>that you could dance this well or had a partner that would make you look
>and feel so good.
> As for me, I have danced the dance, the music of the engine has stopped
>for now. ..until the next time ....when I need to hear that sound of the
>music of the engine..the sound I love.....the flying I love...
>And if that music be the food of love....PLAY ON....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com> |
Thank you for the response regarding imported and UMA instrument
quality.
So far the only reports are unfavourable. Usually people who are opposed
to something speak up more than those that are happy. I am wondering if
this might be the case here. Would those readers who are happy with the
imported flight instruments sold by Van's, that is the BC-3 VSI, BG-3E
Altimeter and UMA-7-100-20 Airspeed be kind enough to send a short
answer so I can get a better overall idea of there reliablity.
Also looking at purchasing seat belts from "Pacific Aero Harness" . Any
comments regarding aerobatic buckles (long lever with small hook) as
opposed to the type used in automobiles.
Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to flatten a dent in the LE? |
I have always felt that I was no good a sheet metal body work. However, working
with sheet metal as much as one must to build an RV seems to have helped. I've
had some problems like you state in your post. Go buy yourself a body hammer
and a curved anvil that matches the curve. Hold the anvil under the bump
and very lightly tap all around the bump. Very lightly. Just let the hammer
bounce off the skin. Don't use any force. Do not push on the anvil or you'll
stretch the metal. Be sure that the hammer is hitting precisely the area that
you want it to. Work around the bump, not just on the top. It will take hundreds
of taps, but you should be able to get it down to where light sanding will
clean it up.
As I stated, I've never felt that I was any good at body work, but maybe that's
changed. If there are any real sheet metal people on the list, by all means
listen to them.
Good luck
Brian Eckstein
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Whilst closing my left wing, I dropped my bucking bar. It fell through one
> of the spar lightening holes (wing is in a wing stand, LE down), and
> dinged the LE skin. The dent protrudes maybe 3/32" (looks and feels much
> worse! :-( ) where the corner of the bucking bar hit. Of course, Murphy's
> Law applies and it was the top of the LE that got hit.
>
> So, how do I go about getting rid of this unsightly pimple? Can I just
> flatten (or invert it) with a mallet and fill any remaining dents? Or will
> the skin have been weakened by the impact and need some reinforcement?
>
> Frank.
>
>
> frankv(at)kai.ee.cit.ac.nz Frank van der Hulst
> This is my old account. For witty signature, etc
> email me at frankv(at)pec.co.nz.
> My home page is http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to flatten a dent in the LE? |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Frank;
I would just carefully take a small 3/32" punch and small hammer and
carefully tap the dent back in until just below surrounding skin level.
Then when you prep for paint, just level it with a dab of body filler.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>Whilst closing my left wing, I dropped my bucking bar. It fell through
>one
>of the spar lightening holes (wing is in a wing stand, LE down), and
>dinged the LE skin. The dent protrudes maybe 3/32" (looks and feels
>much
>worse! :-( ) where the corner of the bucking bar hit. Of course,
>Murphy's
>Law applies and it was the top of the LE that got hit.
>
>So, how do I go about getting rid of this unsightly pimple? Can I just
>flatten (or invert it) with a mallet and fill any remaining dents? Or
>will
>the skin have been weakened by the impact and need some reinforcement?
>
>Frank.
>
>
>frankv(at)kai.ee.cit.ac.nz Frank van der Hulst
>This is my old account. For witty signature, etc
>email me at frankv(at)pec.co.nz.
>My home page is http://www.pec.co.nz/~frankv
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to flatten a dent in the LE? |
Sorry to hear about your mishap. Yes, you are thinking along the right
track. You have to put a piece of wood on the inside and gently turn
the bump into a dent from the outside with a wood mallet. The dent can
then be filled with epoxy/micro slurry when finishing the plane.
I had to do this on one of my big screw-ups. I was back riveting the
fuselage by myself because I was too impatient to wait for my wife to
hold the bucking bar. The bucking bar slipped off the rivet and I
pounded a nice bump in the side right where everyone can see it. I
worked it down into a dent instead an it looks 100% better. This
(hopefully) will be the only dent for epoxy/micro.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 Main gear fairings and my engine just arrived!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
> Has anyone had bad luck with these instruments.
>
> I have already purchased the UMA 2 1/2" tach (which received bad reveiws
> on the list) and was thinking of purchasing the matching 2 1/2" UMA
> Manifold pressure guage, any comments?
>
>
> Peter (RV6 Canada)
Peter,
I've got 700 hrs on an "RV-4" and I've gone through 3 UMA manifold pressure
gauges. Fluid ( gas and oil mix ) gets in the instrument. I called the company
and
was told that the 2 1/4 gauge has only one diaphragm in it, they said if I had
fluid, it was because the gauge was bad. I lowered the pressure hose so it
was below the gauge and I haven't had trouble in a couple years. I just hope it
stays that way.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | INVERTED FUEL RETROFIT OPTIONS |
Hello, I am interested in installing an inverted fuel system in my RV4. As
the wings are already built I am hoping someone (s) can share their
experiences with me as to retrofiting an inverted fuel system. Perhaps a
small header tank? I don't want to risk damaging the wing tank by removing
and rebuilding one of the wing tanks.
Thank's in advance!
name="Steven B Janicki.vcf"
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ADR;WORK:;;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA
Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA
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URL:http://www.oracle.com
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REV:19981102T010532Z
END:VCARD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to flatten a dent in the LE? |
Frank,
The correct way to fix your protruding dent is not what you
want to hear. By trying to beat it back in you will work harden
the skin in that area as well as stretch it causing a oil canning
problem. Work hardened areas also tend to crack.
The perfered thing to do is to do a flush patch if you have edge
distance from ribs ect. A well done flush patch with a little filler
around the edges would be barely noticable. This is alot easier
than replacing the LE skin.
Of course the choice is yours. You can see what beating it back in
results in and go from there.
Stew RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
It's been windy all day, Winings said he'd be here to help me with my first
flight.
He hasn't showed up. Last week he flew it, said it was perfect and said he'd be
back this weekend to help ME fly it. What the hell, I've got to do it sometime.
I've
been here getting my RV-4 ready all day. Where is he.
My wife asks me if I'm going to take it up. I say, later after the wind dies
down.
She gets in the car and goes home to get a sweater. Good, she's gone. Don't want
here here to see it if things go wrong.
I've got one of my sons here. Bill is strong and can help me if I need him.
I give
him my billfold, I tell him I love him. I tell him to tell Karen and his brother
Jamie that
I love them too. I've just got six hours dual in a Luscombe, that's not enough.
I
know now how people get killed on their first flight. Thirty-Five thousand dollars,
Four years and 3100 hrs of labor and I am afraid to fly it. Not me, I'll be a
statistic before I'll become the weak link in this accomplishment called home-
building.
Bill is waiting on the taxi-way with a fire extinguisher, just in case. I
taxi
down, do a runup, everything looks good. I announce my intentions and line up
on the runway. My legs are shaking as I feed in the throttle, slowly, real slowly.
I'm going straight, thank God for that. The tail comes up, I'm still feeding throttle.
About half throttle now and it just leaves the runway. I'm flying, it's really
me. I'm
flying. Tears well up, can't be a baby, I've got to keep my head on straight. Monitor
the gauges, set the trim and just fly. I don't do stalls, I don't do steep turns,
I
just fly. I'm flying a dream, now I'm part of that dream, I'm in it. My wife, my
kids, my friends and all the people that went before me. All helped make this
dream of mine a reality.
It's been 45 min. and I guess I'd better go back to the airport. I call in
to
unicom and tell Kent to have the trucks rolling when I get there. He laughs and
says OK. I believe he thought I was joking. I wasn't. Watch my speed, let out
my flaps, slow to 80, then 70 on final. Make the threshold, cut the power, get
it
close, hold it off, hold it off, hold it off. Contact, I'm rolling straight. I
let it roll,
plenty
of runway so I let it roll. Straight as an arrow, beautiful landing. There is a
God.
I found out for sure, there is a God and he was watching out for me. How else
but devine intervention could a 200 hr pilot with less than six hours dual be able
to fly a taildragger like this.
I hope writing about my first flight will help others feel better about their
fears
and concerns about a first flight. Mine went great. One of the reasons it went
great is because I had a 900 hour (RV-4 time ) pilot fly and check out the
systems and stall speeds first. I knew what my airplane's limits were before
I flew it for the first time. Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not trying to take
Austin's place. I just didn't know how to word it otherwise.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: INVERTED FUEL RETROFIT OPTIONS |
Steven
First of all do you have an inverted oil system??
Is the ac painted? If it is painted you can still remove
the tank and put the flop tube in it. If you are careful you
won't loose paint around screws. A functional header tank
could be as much work. A pressure carb or fuel injection
is needed for sustained inverted flight.
Stew RV4 CO.
( I just removed a tank for a seep around the fuel quant.
xmtr with good results)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congrats, and many hours of happy flying to you, sir.
Regards
Wendell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
JimNolan wrote:
I'm
> flying. Tears well up, can't be a baby, I've got to keep my head on straight.
Congratulations Jim,
Go ahead, cry like a baby. I get sort of mushy just reading about these
first flights and thinking about how I will feel the first time my labor
of love gets off the ground.
Gary Zilik
Pine Junction, Co.
6A s/n 22993 Still waiting for engine and prop to show up.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Buster" <6430(at)axion.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
> I flew it for the first time.
Wonderful Jim ! Welcome to the airborne. I told you she wouldn't bite you.
Now you can sleep the sleep of those who have been there...done that..
and know that it was all well worth it !!
I just didn't know how to word it otherwise.
You did well ! You just can't know how many builder/lurkers out there will
take heart and inspiration from your post..Many
Congratulations....Corsair..
> Jim Nolan
> N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: INVERTED FUEL RETROFIT OPTIONS |
Stew, The wings are still off. I have not purchased my engine as I am
nearing but not quite ready to install one. I know I can still install a
Flop Tube at this point, however, as the fuel guage float is in the standard
location my obvious concern is interference between the two.
If I solve the 'Flop Tube' issue I plan to install inverted oil as well. I
wish the fuel was as simple.
Sincerely,
Steven B. Janicki
Sr. Director
Oracle Data Center
(650) 506-2740
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: INVERTED FUEL RETROFIT OPTIONS
Steven
First of all do you have an inverted oil system??
Is the ac painted? If it is painted you can still remove
the tank and put the flop tube in it. If you are careful you
won't loose paint around screws. A functional header tank
could be as much work. A pressure carb or fuel injection
is needed for sustained inverted flight.
Stew RV4 CO.
( I just removed a tank for a seep around the fuel quant.
xmtr with good results)
+
+
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ADR;WORK:;;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA
Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA
URL:http://www.oracle.com
URL:http://www.oracle.com
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REV:19981102T032024Z
END:VCARD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | How much Navaid Throw? |
I am installing my Navaid, and was wondering which hole on the servo crank
most are using. I currently have the bearing on the furthest outside hole,
and seems to be enough for stick movement, but I don't have the wings on
yet, so I can't test it. Is the outside hole too much throw? Should I move
it to the inside a hole or two? I am doing the under-the-seat installation.
Thanks!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Installing Autopilot
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rudy Albachten <rudy.albachten(at)amd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: INVERTED FUEL RETROFIT OPTIONS |
When I was deciding whether to put in a flop tube, someone at Van's
(I think Ken) pointed out that by the time you've finished building
an RV, modifying the tank was a weekend project. Since I don't plan
to add inverted oil or fuel injection right away (maybe never), I built
2 normal tanks. We did talk about how to modify a tank later:
- remove tank. If screws are painted you will want to be careful not to
damage the paint. I would lightly score the paint around the screws.
- cut a new access hole in bay 2. If you cut a rectangle you can easily
add a rectangular doubler with nutplates for a new cover with the fuel
level pickup.
- working through original access panel, retrofit the flop tube, swinging
door over fuel transfer hole, and flop tube guides. This is the hardest
part, but they assured me it can be done. Blind rivets should make adding
the door and guides not too dificult.
- make a new solid cover for the original access panel
- remount fuel tank
Keep in mind this is completely theoretical, but I believe I could do this
in a couple days at most.
- Rudy Albachten
RV-6A (still finishing wings)
>
>
>
> Hello, I am interested in installing an inverted fuel system in my RV4. As
> the wings are already built I am hoping someone (s) can share their
> experiences with me as to retrofiting an inverted fuel system. Perhaps a
> small header tank? I don't want to risk damaging the wing tank by removing
> and rebuilding one of the wing tanks.
>
> Thank's in advance!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Tip for measuring wing sweep |
A few weeks ago, there was discussion about whether or not to cut off the
outboard excess wing spar. I just found another reason to keep it on.
When measuring and adjusting incidence angle prior to drilling the aft spar
attach holes, I have heard that it can be frustrating keeping the wing
sweep constant.
What I did was to first mark the main longerons with a lateral line which
was directly above the spar U channel, using a straightedge and plumb
lines. Then, I clamped a vertical bar to the main spar outboard of the
last rib, and ran a string from wingtip to wingtip, just above the main
longerons. This string came off these vertical bars at the same location on
the spar that the longeron lines referenced. Move the string up and down
as needed so it just grazes the lines marked on the longerons. When the
string crosses the lines, the wings are square and in-line. Double check
everything by measuring from each wingtip back to some centerline at the
tail.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
How about using an auto emergency flasher hooked to a relay with two sets of
contacts, normally open and normally closed to run the port and starboard
landing lights? Would such a thing be possible? I checked with a friend
and his Allen Bradley catalog lists an appropriate relay, 12V and 30amp. I
have a trailer flasher on my car and it must have internal loading because
with or with out a trailer the flasher blinks at the same rate all the time
(trailer hook ups in the past were not so easy). IMHO, flash rate would be
about right. Maybe Bob Nicholas can comment on such a set up.
List Donation 'wired in'. Keeping the frequent flyer miles.
Just starting wing structure.
>Subject: Wig wags
>
>Gentleman, I am going to send a group reply to save some typing :-).
>The part number from Gal's for the traffic flasher is #L-FS020 and is
>currently priced at $39.99. This is a solid state and completely sealed
>unit. Installation consists of 5 wires: postive, negative, switch on,
>passenger side, and return (to driver's side).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations, Jim! I hope to follow you in short order. Now go out
there and fix that 200-hr nervousness with a whole lotta RV time!
Enviously,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST think I solved the remote oil cooler problem
>
>Four years and 3100 hrs of labor and I am afraid to fly it. Not me, I'll be
a
>statistic before I'll become the weak link in this accomplishment called
home-
>building.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: INVERTED FUEL RETROFIT OPTIONS |
Steven,
Since the tanks aren't painted and are easy to get out
you might as well put the flop tube in.
Like a lister said, Just cut a hole in the back of the tank
like you did in the root rib for xmtr installation. Add the
nutplates and fabricate a cover plate. You already have an
access hole and cover plate on the inboard rib so.....
Shouldn't take too long and will work. I used a flycutter
in a drill and carefully cut a round hole in the back of the tank.
If you make the cover plate first complete with #8 screw holes
and then lay it in place on the back, you can drill the holes and
trace the OD. Then you can see the correct dia. for the access hole
allowing for edge distance from the screw holes.
Stew RV4 273sb CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How much Navaid Throw? |
Paul,
I used the farthest out hole on the servo arm.
I would suggest that you wait to mount the servo until you have the wings
on and the ailerons attached and aileron stops installed. Same for the
elevator. I didn't feel there was much latitude for servo mounting. That
is, because of the extreme throw of the stick in all directions, servo
mounting location is critical to prevent adverse loads to the servo arm and
servo. I had to make little "cone-shaped" spacers for each side of both rod
ends to allow for maximum movement. Possibly, the correct size of Seastrom
washer could accomplish the same thing.
One builder on the list mounted the servo under the passenger's seat and
used a longer servo to stick rod and attached to the bottom of the pilot's
stick. This would result in less movement and result in more flexability in
servo mounting locations. You might search the archives for more info.
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>I am installing my Navaid, and was wondering which hole on the servo crank
>most are using. I currently have the bearing on the furthest outside hole,
>and seems to be enough for stick movement, but I don't have the wings on
>yet, so I can't test it. Is the outside hole too much throw? Should I move
>it to the inside a hole or two? I am doing the under-the-seat installation.
>Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
Thank you both for your ideas and encouragement. I beleive I have enough
information to work with. My final concern of course will be my original
concern of moving the float assembly to another bay where it will be
inaccurate. Sounds like there is a need for a Flop Tube / Float Assembly kit
needed to address this type of installation. Perhaps a capacitence type of
probe would work in the same bay as the Flop Tube?
I will need to investigate further!
name="Steven B Janicki.vcf"
filename="Steven B Janicki.vcf"
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Janicki;Steven;B
FN:Steven B Janicki
ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center
TITLE:Sr. Director
TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740
TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165
ADR;WORK:;;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA
Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA
URL:http://www.oracle.com
URL:http://www.oracle.com
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com
REV:19981102T061338Z
END:VCARD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How to flatten a dent in the LE? |
<< So, how do I go about getting rid of this unsightly pimple? Can I just
flatten (or invert it) with a mallet and fill any remaining dents? >>
Frank,
Instead of trying to find a curved bucking bar you might consider
a sand bag as your back up if you decide to try and flaten the dent. If its
really a pimple you might simply drill a 3/32nds or 1/8th inch hole dimple and
fill with a rivet.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
JimNolan wrote:
>
> I hope writing about my first flight will help others feel better about their
fears
> and concerns about a first flight. Mine went great. One of the reasons it went
> great is because I had a 900 hour (RV-4 time ) pilot fly and check out the
> systems and stall speeds first. I knew what my airplane's limits were before
> I flew it for the first time. Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not trying to take
> Austin's place. I just didn't know how to word it otherwise.
> Jim Nolan
> N444JN
>
>
Jim
Congratulations it is always fun to hear about first solo flights in
an RV. Remember that first flight is just the beginning to learning
how to fly your pride and joy.
Fly safe
Jerry
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Have been reading with interest the views on dry tanks. I had an
incident this week end while flying my fuel injected Mazda WAnkel
powered RV-6A (total time 4.5 hrs thus far). I was at 8000 MSL feeding
off my right tank (with the flop) tube, fuel indicator was showing
slight over 1/4 tank and I was in a 30 Degree turn to the right (feed
tank low). When I encountered a sudden and dreadful slience. I realized
the engine had quit. The good news was I was at 8000 feet, I
immediately established 90 mph as best glide, then noted the fuel
pressure was zero, turned boost pump on and switched to the left thank.
It seem to take forever for the fuel pressure to come up to 40 psi and
the injectors to start squirting fuel again. Wooden 68x72 prop had
continued to windmill and started up again as soon as fuel pressure
climbed above 20 psi. I estimate I lost 800 ft during this period.
Fortunately there was an airport within easy gliding distance, however,
with only 6 hours in an RV-6 I was not particularly keen about an engine
out landing.
Once my composure was regained I again switched to the right tank as my
calibration indicated I should have approx 6 gallons. This time I was
monitoring the fuel pressure and notice when it started to decline and
immediately switched back to the left tank.
Has anyone had a flop tube hang up such that it was not at the lowest
part of the tank - or any other ideas.
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: weird altimeter |
Hi Nick,
I agree and proved it this weekend. I detached the VSI from the static
line and hooked it up to a hose. By blowing very gentle into the hose I
could get the indicator to read 1000 FPM down, however you had to blow
continously as the needle would drop back to zero if you simply held the
pressure in the line. Also when I sucked gentle on the hose, the VSI
indicated 1000 FPM up. This pretty clearly indicates that I have
positive pressure in my static system. Which means my airspeed
indicator is probably reading lower than actual and my Altimeter lower
also. Just a wag but based on the fluctuation in the Airspeed indicator
and altimeter, I would estimate my airspeed is reading 5 -10 mph slower
than I am flying and my altimeter is around 100 ft low.
It seems I recall an article in RV-ATOR about some "air dams" one can
place around the static port to get things right, does anyone recall the
issue or can relay to me the technique??
Thanks
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Nick Nafsinger wrote:
>
>
> Guys... Just my $.02, but doesn't a VSI detect "change" (meaning actual
> climb or descent...) in the static system?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
>
> Gentleman, I am going to send a group reply to save some typing :-).
> The part number from Gal's for the traffic flasher is #L-FS020 and is
> currently priced at $39.99. This is a solid state and completely sealed
> unit. Installation consists of 5 wires: postive, negative, switch on,
> passenger side, and return (to driver's side).
>
> I was asked about mounting location, I mount the units on the firewall
> of our squads and I use #14 wire (a little better current flow), seems
> to work just fine. This saves the hassle of mounting the unit within
> 12" of the lights as some flashers recommend. As far as current
> consumption I am not sure, I know automotive lights have quite a draw
> but I do not know the specifics.
>
Joe
How big is the unit, and does it come with it's own mounting bracket?
I have been considering this for a while and I think I will do it.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL
N143CH passed it's F.A.A. inspection, first flight very soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
What you say will work. My question is: Why buy the extra part? The
IDEAL # 537 flasher will Wig-Wag the lights without the relay. It is
rated at 14 A. It works in my RV-6 (250+ hours) and cost less than
$8. Purchased from J.C. Whitney.
Gary
>
> How about using an auto emergency flasher hooked to a relay with two
sets of
> contacts, normally open and normally closed to run the port and
starboard
> landing lights? Would such a thing be possible? I checked with a
friend
> and his Allen Bradley catalog lists an appropriate relay, 12V and
30amp. I
> have a trailer flasher on my car and it must have internal loading
because
> with or with out a trailer the flasher blinks at the same rate all
the time
> (trailer hook ups in the past were not so easy). IMHO, flash rate
would be
> about right. Maybe Bob Nicholas can comment on such a set up.
>
> List Donation 'wired in'. Keeping the frequent flyer miles.
> Just starting wing structure.
>
> >Subject: Wig wags
> >
> >Gentleman, I am going to send a group reply to save some typing :-).
> >The part number from Gal's for the traffic flasher is #L-FS020 and is
> >currently priced at $39.99. This is a solid state and completely
sealed
> >unit. Installation consists of 5 wires: postive, negative, switch
on,
> >passenger side, and return (to driver's side).
> >
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
bramsec wrote:
> Ok Pete, I have UMA electronic TAC, Fuel, oil, and coolant pressure and voltage
gauges as well as oil and coolant temp 2 1/4" gauges. I have been very happy
with the UMA gauges. However, be aware that these gauges do contain permanent
magnets which forced me to move my Whiskey compass over to the far right.
I have always had good response from UMA. I was testing my overvoltage controller
once (which did not work properly) and blew out the voltage regulators
in several of the gauges. They repaired them for $5.00 a gauge which I thought
was quite reasonable. So for 1/2 the price of "Aircraft Gauges" and where do
you find a "Water Pressure" aircraft gauge, I have found them to be well worth
the price. No, I do not own stock in UMA.
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
>
>
> So far the only reports are unfavourable. Usually people who are opposed
> to something speak up more than those that are happy. I am wondering if
> this might be the case here. Would those readers who are happy with the
> imported flight instruments sold by Van's, that is the BC-3 VSI, BG-3E
> Altimeter and UMA-7-100-20 Airspeed be kind enough to send a short
> answer so I can get a better overall idea of there reliablity.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>, fuel indicator was showing
>slight over 1/4 tank and I was in a 30 Degree turn to the right (feed
>tank low). When I encountered a sudden and dreadful slience
>
>Ed Anderson
>anderson_ed(at)bah.com
>RV-6A N494BW
This is one of the reasons why it is imperative that you go out and dry out
each tank ( on different flights of course....). You could have flown that
bird for years with using 1/4 tanks as your reserve, until the day came when
you needed your reserve. If it took 800 ft to get restarted, that should
be over a minute at your normal glide. If that is the case, I would suggest
you investigate why, (if that is the best you can do you might consider a
design change) or go practice this manuver again, and see if you can do
better. That seems very excessive.
Now think how many times you have entered the pattern in this or other
airplanes with 1/4 tanks and switched to the fullest one. You would have
been flying a time bomb. I would bet that there are alot of people flying
homebuilts that have no idea how much gas they can get out of their tanks in
flight. So just more good reason to go and dry out your tanks. (on
different flights of course....)
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
I can speak from some rather recent (August 29th) experience with this subject.
At about 800 ft AGL while turning final I ran the right tank dry. I did not
panic but was unable to obtain a restart before I had to put my RV-4 in the
trees short of the runway.
As I said I did not lose my head but things got rather hairy and anxious
when the prop turned over a bunch of times and did not fire. These birds
develop a rather high sink rate with the fan stopped.
In any event, I did not lose my life or even gain serious injury in the
forced landing in trees - I was lucky.
My pride and joy however, is a twisted pile of aluminum that will somehow
make it back in the air someday (I have wing kit and other parts on order)
and I learned a lesson I will never forget. Don't ever give yourself a
chance to run a tank dry - NEVER.
For now I'm flying a '75 Tiger - nice plane but no RV....
Richard E. Bibb
RV-4 N144KT - in rebuild - will fly by 2000
Oak Hill, VA
rbibb(at)fore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Couldn't agree more with your comments, Doug.
To be fair, I must shame-faced admit it took me a little longer (than it
ever will again) to finally look at the fuel pressure gauge and realize
that despite my fuel level indicator supposedly indicating plenty of
fuel - that with zero fuel pressure - I was NOT getting fuel. Then
threw on boost pump and switched to left tank. It probably took no more
than 5 - 10 seconds for the fuel pressure to come back up after I took
that action. Which needless to say, I will be better prepared for next
time. But, I am going to look inside the tank to see if that flop tube
might not be hung up above the lowest fuel level of the tank.
But, you are correct, on the next flight I will run the left tank dry -
making certain I have a full and feeding tank from the right before
trying (and over a airport with a long runway){:>}.
Ed
Ed
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
> bird for years with using 1/4 tanks as your reserve, until the day came when
> you needed your reserve. If it took 800 ft to get restarted, that should
> be over a minute at your normal glide.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
If I remember, flash rate was 60 to 70 per minute in the FARs.
From: Marty RV6A <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Wig wags
>
>How about using an auto emergency flasher hooked to a relay with two sets
of
>contacts, normally open and normally closed to run the port and starboard
>landing lights? Would such a thing be possible? I checked with a friend
>and his Allen Bradley catalog lists an appropriate relay, 12V and 30amp. I
>have a trailer flasher on my car and it must have internal loading because
>with or with out a trailer the flasher blinks at the same rate all the time
>(trailer hook ups in the past were not so easy). IMHO, flash rate would
be
>about right. Maybe Bob Nicholas can comment on such a set up.
>
>List Donation 'wired in'. Keeping the frequent flyer miles.
>Just starting wing structure.
>
>>Subject: Wig wags
>>
>>Gentleman, I am going to send a group reply to save some typing :-).
>>The part number from Gal's for the traffic flasher is #L-FS020 and is
>>currently priced at $39.99. This is a solid state and completely sealed
>>unit. Installation consists of 5 wires: postive, negative, switch on,
>>passenger side, and return (to driver's side).
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Richard and others;
These are my thoughts exactly. While many on the list like to actually
run a tank dry routinely and on purpose, the other side of the coin is
that there are certain things that simply have too much risk. Even if you
'practice' running a tank dry at 6,000' over an airport, there are high
risks; you may misjudge your glide, winds aloft stronger than you
thought, wind up hitting short because the engine would not start, etc.
Certainly much higher risks than if you did not do this. It is a
personal decision; at what point do the risks outweigh the benefit? As
for me, I do not intend to ever run a tank dry, even in practice. If I
ever was forced to, I think closely watching the fuel pressure, and
switching as soon as you see a fluctuation will allow you to avoid having
the engine completely stop. Just another opinion.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>I can speak from some rather recent (August 29th) experience with this
>subject.
>
>At about 800 ft AGL while turning final I ran the right tank dry. I
>did not
>panic but was unable to obtain a restart before I had to put my RV-4
>in the
>trees short of the runway.
>
>As I said I did not lose my head but things got rather hairy and
>anxious
>when the prop turned over a bunch of times and did not fire. These
>birds
>develop a rather high sink rate with the fan stopped.
>
>In any event, I did not lose my life or even gain serious injury in
>the
>forced landing in trees - I was lucky.
>
>My pride and joy however, is a twisted pile of aluminum that will
>somehow
>make it back in the air someday (I have wing kit and other parts on
>order)
>and I learned a lesson I will never forget. Don't ever give yourself
>a
>chance to run a tank dry - NEVER.
>
>For now I'm flying a '75 Tiger - nice plane but no RV....
>
>Richard E. Bibb
>RV-4 N144KT - in rebuild - will fly by 2000
>Oak Hill, VA
>rbibb(at)fore.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
My check list is ALWAYS fullest tank before entering landing pattern.
From: Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com>
Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 8:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dry tanks:
>
>I can speak from some rather recent (August 29th) experience with this
subject.
>
>At about 800 ft AGL while turning final I ran the right tank dry. I did
not
>panic but was unable to obtain a restart before I had to put my RV-4 in the
>trees short of the runway.
>
>As I said I did not lose my head but things got rather hairy and anxious
>when the prop turned over a bunch of times and did not fire. These birds
>develop a rather high sink rate with the fan stopped.
>
>In any event, I did not lose my life or even gain serious injury in the
>forced landing in trees - I was lucky.
>
>My pride and joy however, is a twisted pile of aluminum that will somehow
>make it back in the air someday (I have wing kit and other parts on order)
>and I learned a lesson I will never forget. Don't ever give yourself a
>chance to run a tank dry - NEVER.
>
>For now I'm flying a '75 Tiger - nice plane but no RV....
>
>Richard E. Bibb
>RV-4 N144KT - in rebuild - will fly by 2000
>Oak Hill, VA
>rbibb(at)fore.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternator Hook-up |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
I have an 0-360 from Aero Sport in Canada, with the new lightweight
'nippo' alternator. Besides the battery hook-up, there are two male blade
connectors on the back; one runs vertically, the other horizontal. Which
one is the field hookup, and what is the other one for? This appears to
be made for a one-piece plug to fit over both blades. Can I get these
locally? Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Prop Governors;O'haul |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
I recently acquired a Woodward prop governor that looks fairly new and
fits my engine and prop combination, but has an unknown history. Can I
just have this unit function checked? Or would it be advisable to
overhaul it? As I understand it, these are seldom overhauled, and are so
simple that failures are virtually unheard of. In talking to friends that
own spam cans, they have had props and engines overhauled, but can't
recall having the governor overhauled. What is a typical failure on a
governor? Is it true that when they do fail, they just go to fine pitch
due to the spring loading? They seem to want around $4-500 to overhaul
this unit, EMI was the highest of them all!
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Walker" <fwalker(at)insurquote.com> |
most of your automotive flashers are a bi-metal switch. they are
constructed so that the current passing thought them causes the bi-metal
strip to heat up and when it reaches a certain temp they flex and break the
contact turning the light off, until they cool sufficiently the flex back
completing the circuit turning the light back on to cycle again. which
means the more current that you pass through them the faster they flash.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
>My check list is ALWAYS fullest tank before entering landing pattern.
And when it comes time to change tanks, make sure you've got a perfect
emergency landing field in site, preferably an airport on cross countries.
I usually watch the fuel pressure gauge pretty closely during tank changes
too. No intentional dry tanks for me thank you.
Ed, as to your question about the flop tube getting stuck, I've read that
it's happened before, but can't seem to find it in the archives. I'll be
taking special care to make sure it can't happen to mine. In fact, that
task is waiting for me to get back from being out of town for 5 weeks. My
wife also said the Proseal cans were calling my name- be afraid :-)
Rusty
Kolb SlingShot Sold
RV-8 (tanks)
Navarre, FL (as soon as I escape from Cleveland exile)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
So want will you do when you see the SECOND fluctuation????
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dry tanks:
>
>Richard and others;
>These are my thoughts exactly. While many on the list like to actually
>run a tank dry routinely and on purpose, the other side of the coin is
>that there are certain things that simply have too much risk. Even if you
>'practice' running a tank dry at 6,000' over an airport, there are high
>risks; you may misjudge your glide, winds aloft stronger than you
>thought, wind up hitting short because the engine would not start, etc.
>Certainly much higher risks than if you did not do this. It is a
>personal decision; at what point do the risks outweigh the benefit? As
>for me, I do not intend to ever run a tank dry, even in practice. If I
>ever was forced to, I think closely watching the fuel pressure, and
>switching as soon as you see a fluctuation will allow you to avoid having
>the engine completely stop. Just another opinion.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>writes:
>>
>>I can speak from some rather recent (August 29th) experience with this
>>subject.
>>
>>At about 800 ft AGL while turning final I ran the right tank dry. I
>>did not
>>panic but was unable to obtain a restart before I had to put my RV-4
>>in the
>>trees short of the runway.
>>
>>As I said I did not lose my head but things got rather hairy and
>>anxious
>>when the prop turned over a bunch of times and did not fire. These
>>birds
>>develop a rather high sink rate with the fan stopped.
>>
>>In any event, I did not lose my life or even gain serious injury in
>>the
>>forced landing in trees - I was lucky.
>>
>>My pride and joy however, is a twisted pile of aluminum that will
>>somehow
>>make it back in the air someday (I have wing kit and other parts on
>>order)
>>and I learned a lesson I will never forget. Don't ever give yourself
>>a
>>chance to run a tank dry - NEVER.
>>
>>For now I'm flying a '75 Tiger - nice plane but no RV....
>>
>>Richard E. Bibb
>>RV-4 N144KT - in rebuild - will fly by 2000
>>Oak Hill, VA
>>rbibb(at)fore.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Aileron trim |
I am building a RV6a quickbuild which come with the ailerons completely
made. I would like to have electric trim, and Van's has the set up
available in their catalog.
Has anyone tried to retrofit this electric trim servo motor, bracket etc
and would you recommend/not recommend it? (I would prefer electric to the
manual)
Also, Bill at Vans thought I might try using the Electric Aileron trim for
the RV8, reworking it for the RV6a. Any ideas.
By the way, has anyone ever seen the Sierra Flight System EFIS. Check out
their web site at www.sierraflightsystems.com and run the demo. I'm
considering entering the 21st century with a glass cockpit.
(Reinstalled the controls this weekend, temporarily monted the HS and
VS,(kept coming down in the middle of the night to see my baby sitting in
the garage) and got in some serious garage flying time.....Yes, I made
engine noises too.
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Out Landings (was Dry tanks:) |
An alternate view on dry tanks and engine out landings.
I think we need to keep in mind that our airplanes are experimental.
That means to me that we can not know for sure how much usable fuel we
have until we test it. We have some reasonable assurance that
ceritified manufactures have adequately tested and documented this fact
on standardized airframes.
As for the risks of engine out, 6000 feet over an airport. If I had any
doubt at all about my ability to do a perfect landing engine out, I
would immediately call up my local instructor and practice until I
could. I think that good flying skills are a result of confidence. And
confidence comes from practice.
When I went to get my Hang IV rating for hang gliders, I had to make 3
consecutive landings within a 25 meter circle from a distant mountain
launch site (one of the toughest aviation tasks I have had to
accomplish, and it took almost a year). When you have only one chance
to land, you learn how to do it. I may not be IFR qualified, or very
good at aerobactics, but I have absolute confidence in my ability to
land engine out, regarless of the airport location. I have confidence
because I routinely practice this situation.
Interstingly, Bob Hoover can land engine out after a roll on down wind.
After landing he coasts up to the crowd and stops on a dime that he
placed on the ramp before he took off. I don't recommend the roll, but I
see no reason why with practice, I can not do the same thing (with the
engine at idle of course). We all should be able to at least make the
runway that is 6000 feet directly below. It is a very big risk to to be
flying and not have this confidence.
As for engine out landings, there is no substitue for airspeed and
altitude. You can not stretch the glide, but you can easily eliminate
the excess altitude and airspeed once you are over the landing area. If
you disagree, check with you local flight instrutor and learn how.
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont Ca
>
the other side of the coin is
> that there are certain things that simply have too much risk. Even if you
> 'practice' running a tank dry at 6,000' over an airport, there are high
> risks; you may misjudge your glide, winds aloft stronger than you
> thought, wind up hitting short because the engine would not start, etc.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mack, Don" <DMack(at)tuthill.com> |
FYI,
The premade tanks that I bought London (several years ago) had flop tubes
that would hang up. I had to rework both of them to stop them from catching.
My understanding is that someone else makes the tanks for London now. I
bring it up in case someone in the past had purchased the tanks with flop
tube option and never checked them out.
Don Mack
RV-6A Fuselage
donmack(at)flash.net
http://www.flash.net/~donmack/rv6a
Ed, as to your question about the flop tube getting stuck, I've read that
it's happened before, but can't seem to find it in the archives.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governors;O'haul |
I just had my Governor rebuilt by:
Wings West Governors
1-800-557-3188
The price to rebuild should have been $265. I purchased my IO-360 from Bart
at Progressive Air In Canada and he provided a used Governor that should be
ok. After thinking about it for a while and deciding that that was the only
thing on the plane that was not checked I sent it away for rebuild. To my
amazement the Governor was a pressure to decrease pitch and would have made
the prop work opposite!! The people at Wings West reworked the unit to make
it work correctly but now the price went to $595 but it should work as good as
new. Hopfully the other parts in my engine are correct?
Wings West also has rebuilt Governors for sale.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
Listers,
Have been following this post with interest. I think a lot of builders put
in a flop tube because they think it's the thing to do. I was also going
to do that. Thanks to Eustace I didn't. He asked me what kind of
manoevers I was going to do? Loops and rolls are about all I am interested
in. Loops and rolls are all done with positive G's so why bother with a
flop tube. One more thing to go wrong. It was good advice, so if you only
do loops and rolls which is probably most of us, keep it simple and use the
flop tube as per plans.
My opinion for what it's worth.
Ken Hoshowski C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
Beautiful British Columbia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>
>I can speak from some rather recent (August 29th) experience with this
subject.
>
>At about 800 ft AGL while turning final I ran the right tank dry. I did
not
>panic but was unable to obtain a restart before I had to put my RV-4 in the
>trees short of the runway.
>
Richard,
First of all, thankfully you are alive to tell your story and I am sorry you
lost your airplane. Landing in the trees and surviving is a tribute to you
as a pilot and the RV as an airplane. Your story is exactly the reason why
I advocate practicing this maneuver. As someone mentioned here, a certified
airplane must be able to restart and develop power in something like 10
seconds. There is no reason why a RV won't do the same thing. If it won't
then you may want to look at what needs changed in your fuel system so it
will.
Had you practiced it you "might" have been able to get it going again. You
might have also found that your system has an airlock or something that
precludes it from starting from a dry tank. If you practiced running a tank
dry up high over a long runway and it would not start, you should have had
no trouble dead sticking it in.
Believe me an engine failure in the pattern will get anyones attention. If
it doesn't, you may want to check your pulse. No matter how many tanks you
have run dry, if it happens in the pattern It is going to take some time to
recover your composure. What training does is reduce the time it takes to
regain that composure and get to work. Having a procedure and working
through it is very calming. Primarily because if you have done it before
and practiced it, you "believe" in your mind that you are going to have a
positive outcome. If you "believe" your chances improve dramatically!
Ed Anderson fessed up today in his post that he was "not prepared." My hope
in advocating this experience is to prevent exactly what happened to you.
"Be prepared!" This is why we train and practice.
I say again, I do not advocate that people go out and routinely run tanks
dry. I do, sometimes, when I really need range to save a stop and when the
WX is good, no trees, up high etc. That is my business. (I am not telling
anyone to adopt that as a policy and based on this thread I may quit)
One more time on this too! If you are planning to dry a tank out and you
are not comfortable with it(no shame here at all), get someone to go with
you who # 1, is, and #2, has flown an RV enough to be comfortable landing it
as a glider.
Sorry for your loss,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Electric Aileron Trim |
Dan,
I retro fitted the electric trim
kit into my RV6. It certainly would be easier to do it initially but
really had no problem to it after.
Ken C-FKEH RV6 20332
First flight Sept 8/93
Beautiful British Columbia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dry tanks:Not just homebuilts |
I had my flight review here in Kansas and rented a 150 from a nearby flight
school. The 150 was old and tattered as most are but I did not see anything
falling off so I said ok. I ckd the fuel and saw that both gauges read just
above zero and I asked the instructor to call for fuel. He instead got a dip
stick and dipped the tanks proclaiming that there was 7 gallons useable in the
left and 6 gallons in the right. I asked again about the fuel and the dipstick
he had. He informed me that he had been flying this 150 for years and the
hood work in route. After two t&g's at the home field on the third one the 150
quit cold at about 600 feet AGL or so and about 2/3 down the runway. The
asked while I did a 180 back to the runway. As we were rolling down the
tailwheel on the wrong end settled on. I looked over and said "I think we just
let another pilot tell you something you think may be in correct such as "
like that BOTH position
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governors;O'haul |
<< What is a typical failure on a
governor? Is it true that when they do fail, they just go to fine pitch
due to the spring loading? They seem to want around $4-500 to overhaul
this unit, EMI was the highest of them all!
Von Alexander >>
Von:
Tell 'em you don't need a yellow tag. This uncomplicates the situation
greatly!
Now, be sure that you have a gov that's compatible with your prop- single
engine type, or non-counterweighted.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Yohannes Kayir <yohannkayir(at)pcola.gulf.net> |
Is there any way to test for usable fuel, by running say 1/4 or less
of one tank dry on the ground? Problems would be:
-Overheating
-Correct aircraft attitude
-What else?
Yohann
Pensacola, Fl.
RV-4 Canopy
drilled and clecoed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
A friend had a flop tube fall off on his Christen Eagle. Fortunately there
was enough fuel in the tank when he went inverted, the engine still ran at
LOW attitude. And he got to die in his sleep.
From: Mack, Don <DMack(at)tuthill.com>
Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 12:32 PM
Subject: Hanging Flop Tube was RE: RV-List: Dry tanks:
>
>FYI,
>
>The premade tanks that I bought London (several years ago) had flop tubes
>that would hang up. I had to rework both of them to stop them from
catching.
>My understanding is that someone else makes the tanks for London now. I
>bring it up in case someone in the past had purchased the tanks with flop
>tube option and never checked them out.
>
>Don Mack
>RV-6A Fuselage
>donmack(at)flash.net
>http://www.flash.net/~donmack/rv6a
>
>
>Ed, as to your question about the flop tube getting stuck, I've read that
>it's happened before, but can't seem to find it in the archives.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Hi Rusty,
Good, I am not imagining I saw something on flop tubes. I will tell
you Rusty that I don't know why I put the flop tube in in the first
place. The only aerobatics I would ever do (intentionally that is) does
not require a negative G fuel system. But, it seemed like a good idea
at the time. I think I convinced myself that it would be useful in
"bumpy" air.
Ugh! Proseal - next to putting platenuts on I think I hated that part
the most. The good news is do both tanks at the same time and get it
overwith, otherwise you may never do the second tank{:>}.
Ed
Russell Duffy wrote:
>
>
> Ed, as to your question about the flop tube getting stuck, I've read that
> it's happened before, but can't seem to find it in the archives. I'll be
> taking special care to make sure it can't happen to mine. In fact, that
> task is waiting for me to get back from being out of town for 5 weeks. My
> wife also said the Proseal cans were calling my name- be afraid :-)
>
> Rusty
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Out Landings (was Dry tanks:) |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Bob, I appreciate your viewpoint on this subject. As I said, it really
comes down to this; how much risk are you willing to subject yourself to
in the attempt to practice for the real thing? I feel confident that I
can put my engine-out airplane into that small grass strip below with no
problem, but will I try it just for the sheer heck of it? Will I run a
tank dry on purpose just to see how long the engine will take to restart,
if it starts at all? It is a very personal decision, and is called 'risk
management'. I find it fascinating though, to read all sides and
opinions on this subject.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>An alternate view on dry tanks and engine out landings.
>
>I think we need to keep in mind that our airplanes are experimental.
>That means to me that we can not know for sure how much usable fuel we
>have until we test it. We have some reasonable assurance that
>ceritified manufactures have adequately tested and documented this
>fact
>on standardized airframes.
>
>As for the risks of engine out, 6000 feet over an airport. If I had
>any
>doubt at all about my ability to do a perfect landing engine out, I
>would immediately call up my local instructor and practice until I
>could. I think that good flying skills are a result of confidence.
>And
>confidence comes from practice.
>
>When I went to get my Hang IV rating for hang gliders, I had to make 3
>consecutive landings within a 25 meter circle from a distant mountain
>launch site (one of the toughest aviation tasks I have had to
>accomplish, and it took almost a year). When you have only one chance
>to land, you learn how to do it. I may not be IFR qualified, or very
>good at aerobactics, but I have absolute confidence in my ability to
>land engine out, regarless of the airport location. I have confidence
>because I routinely practice this situation.
>
>Interstingly, Bob Hoover can land engine out after a roll on down
>wind.
>After landing he coasts up to the crowd and stops on a dime that he
>placed on the ramp before he took off. I don't recommend the roll, but
>I
>see no reason why with practice, I can not do the same thing (with the
>engine at idle of course). We all should be able to at least make the
>runway that is 6000 feet directly below. It is a very big risk to to
>be
>flying and not have this confidence.
>
>As for engine out landings, there is no substitue for airspeed and
>altitude. You can not stretch the glide, but you can easily eliminate
>the excess altitude and airspeed once you are over the landing area.
>If
>you disagree, check with you local flight instrutor and learn how.
>
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>Fremont Ca
>>
> the other side of the coin is
>> that there are certain things that simply have too much risk. Even
>if you
>> 'practice' running a tank dry at 6,000' over an airport, there are
>high
>> risks; you may misjudge your glide, winds aloft stronger than you
>> thought, wind up hitting short because the engine would not start,
>etc.
>> Certainly much higher risks than if you did not do this.
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Out Landings (was Dry tanks:) |
<< As for engine out landings, there is no substitue for airspeed and
altitude. You can not stretch the glide, but you can easily eliminate
the excess altitude and airspeed once you are over the landing area. If
you disagree, check with you local flight instrutor and learn how. >>
FWIW: Not all IP's can walk on water. How do I know? I had to learn how to
swim, so to speak. I'd recommend a GLIDER instructor for this practice.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
> >
> >
> > So far the only reports are unfavourable. Usually people who are opposed
> > to something speak up more than those that are happy. I am wondering if
> > this might be the case here. Would those readers who are happy with the
> > imported flight instruments sold by Van's, that is the BC-3 VSI, BG-3E
> > Altimeter and UMA-7-100-20 Airspeed be kind enough to send a short
> > answer so I can get a better overall idea of there reliablity.
Me too . My experience with UMA was favorable. had oil and fuel get in my Man
press gage and broke the glass trying to fix it. Sent it to them and they fixed
it promptly at a reasonable cost. BTW I now also have a "lower loop" in the
line and a filter/trap as well.. No problems in 300 hours since these fixes.
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Would like to install my motor for the electric flaps befor fitting wing.
> Any suggestions from from experience would be appreciated.
A couple of suggetstions:
1) Install the flap weldment before installing the motor and supporting
channels, and check to make sure the forward flap weldment arm clears
the forward channel (the one the motor attaches to) during installation.
I found it was necessary to move the bottom end of this channel forward
1/2" or so from where the plans showed it, otherwise it would interfere
with the weldement arm.
2) The plans (when I did it anyway) were ambiguous as to the up/down
orientation of the center bearing block. There is a "thick" half, and a
"thin" half, and it doesn't say which one is on the bottom. I think
either way can be made to work; I installed mine "thin side down", but
after doing that I realized "thick side down" might have been better, as
it would raise the end blocks up to where their attach bolts won't
cutting little notches in the fwd seat floor to clear the bolt heads).
Also if you put carpet in the baggage cpt. this will give you
room to put the carpet underneath (if you care about that). BUT...
thick side down will also mean the weldment arm will be higher, so the
fwd. channel will need to be further forward to clear it (see tip
#1)...! So it may be that thin side down is right after all.
Amazing how one thing affects another, which affects another, etc....
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Running it dry, was: Dry tanks |
News-Software: UReply 3.1
In a previous message, it was written:
>
> Is there any way to test for usable fuel, by running say 1/4 or less
>of one tank dry on the ground? Problems would be:
>
> -Overheating
> -Correct aircraft attitude
> -What else?
The Bob Siebert method of discovering usable fuel and calibrating your
fuel guages (who I learned it from, anyway).
Don't run the engine.
Prop airplane up to flight attitude. Disconnect fuel line - use electric
fuel pump and pump fuel into gas can. After pump "empties" tanks, remove
drain plugs and see what you have left.
Replace plugs and after doing the math, put 5 gallons usable in each tank.
Mark the guages that _here_ there are 5 (or whatever you choose for minimum
fuel) gallons remaining.
The best part of this thread is to remember if in flight and you get in
this situation, rock the wings to slosh a little more run time into the
lines.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 emp, wings lost in the mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight was 10/25/92 |
Listers,
Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. But just to get things straight,
MY
first flight was 10/25/92. I've got almost 700 hours on it now. I read an e-mail
about someone's apprehension about their upcoming first flight. That's why I
wrote the First Flight note. Now you guys have made me want to go back and
do it all over again.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
Dan,
Just wondering why you want electric trim. The manual system Van's sells
for the RV6 is very simple and foolproof. It doesn't require any
modification to the aileron. (Matter of fact, installation of the Navaid
wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point...).
You can see the system in my construction log:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/fuse9.html
The electric system will work well, however, if you slow down the servo.
You also get to have the fighter plane coolie switch in the control
stick!
I like the simple approach, however.
Best regards,
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
Dan Wiesel wrote:
>
>
> I am building a RV6a quickbuild which come with the ailerons completely
> made. I would like to have electric trim, and Van's has the set up
> available in their catalog.
>
> Has anyone tried to retrofit this electric trim servo motor, bracket etc
> and would you recommend/not recommend it? (I would prefer electric to the
> manual)
>
> Also, Bill at Vans thought I might try using the Electric Aileron trim for
> the RV8, reworking it for the RV6a. Any ideas.
>
> By the way, has anyone ever seen the Sierra Flight System EFIS. Check out
> their web site at www.sierraflightsystems.com and run the demo. I'm
> considering entering the 21st century with a glass cockpit.
>
> (Reinstalled the controls this weekend, temporarily monted the HS and
> VS,(kept coming down in the middle of the night to see my baby sitting in
> the garage) and got in some serious garage flying time.....Yes, I made
> engine noises too.
> Dan
>
> Dan Wiesel
> Interlink Recruiting
> 408-551-6554
> dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
> I hope writing about my first flight will help others feel better
>about their fears
>and concerns about a first flight. Mine went great. One of the reasons
>it went
>great is because I had a 900 hour (RV-4 time ) pilot fly and check out
>the
>systems and stall speeds first. I knew what my airplane's limits were
>before
>I flew it for the first time. Don't get the wrong idea, I'm not trying
>to take
>Austin's place. I just didn't know how to word it otherwise.
>Jim Nolan
>N444JN
Thanks for the report Jim:
I felt the same this weekend. My wings & feet fit. Feels like the tail
kit just got here today.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Contributions, was Dry tanks: |
If you haven't made your contribution to Matt, You gotta do it now! This
is great! Where can you get entertainment like this at any price!
Click here and do it know!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html
Seriously, this is exactly the reason why I read and post to this list.
Polite, intelligent, thoughtful, and worthwhile discussion. It forces me to
defend my positions, to think them through and sometimes even change my
mind. ( not this time though...) To those who choose not to add your
thoughts, I hope it causes you to think and hopefully spend some time soul
searching how you might react in a when the horse hockey hits the fan. Maybe
even go out get some training and explore your airplane.
Send Matt your money and keep piling on me ( and others ) when I post
heresy. What a Great Country!!!!! What a Great Airplane!!!!!
BTW you know that no one is right and no one is wrong here, it is the
thinking that matters........ ( I do have an opinion however )
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Prop Governors;O'haul |
>To my amazement the Governor was a pressure to decrease pitch and would
have made the prop work opposite!! The people at Wings West reworked the
unit to make it work correctly but now the price went to $595 but it
should work as good as new. Hopfully the other parts in my engine are
correct?
>
>Wings West also has rebuilt Governors for sale.
>
>Rob Hickman
>RV-4 N401RH
>
I had a hartzell convertion on a D model bonanza that worked backwards
than most props. I thought the weights on the blades ( with loss of oil
pressure ) is what took them to course pitch not the governor.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electroair Ignition Systems |
| From: | tcastella(at)Juno.com (Anthony J Castellano) |
In the past, there was some very negative critisism of Jeff Rose's
electronic ignition
systems.
Although I had purchased two of them at that time, I wasn't qualified to
comment on
the subject since I hadn't tested them yet.
I recently installed one in place of the right magneto on my Lycoming
O-360 A1A, and
after test flying it, I can report that it does everything that Jeff
says it will.
The instructions were easy to follow, and as recommended, I replaced the
aircraft
plugs with Auto-Lite type 386 (18mm) spark plugs gapped at 0.035". I
believe these
plugs are a key part of the installation since it would be very difficult
to gap an aircraft
plug to 0.035" without damaging the plug. Also $1.90 vs $16.00.
In my opinion, Jeff rose is a very honest and knowledgeable person to do
business
with, and I can highly recommend his product.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
Ken Hitchcough said:
> ... I think a lot of builders put
> in a flop tube because they think it's the thing to do. I was also going
> to do that. Thanks to Eustace I didn't. He asked me what kind of
> manoevers I was going to do?
[snip]
I'm with you Ken.
A lot of people seem to do it "just in case". But stop for a second and
think to yourself "just in case *what*?" Just in case you change your
mind about spending $1000+ on inverted fuel AND $1500+ on inverted oil
AND the significant amount of time that it will take to install the
stuff? The flop tube isn't much good without it.
If you really think you might do that some day, then by all means
install the tube(s). In my case I decided the likelihood was quite
small, so there wasn't much point in the extra cost, work, weight,
worries about the tube hanging up, etc. Resale value? I'm building
this plane for ME.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight was 10/25/92 |
In a message dated 11/2/98 12:29:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
JimNolan(at)kconline.com writes:
<< Now you guys have made me want to go back and
do it all over again. >>
Maybe a "Rocket" this time??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/2/98 7:52:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, n41va(at)Juno.com
writes:
<< I think closely watching the fuel pressure, and
switching as soon as you see a fluctuation will allow you to avoid having
the engine completely stop. >>
How about engine monitors with fuel pressure readings? I believe there are
some out there that will "alarm" for this condition.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
Sam,
thanks for the tip, I'll check out your we site.
>
>Dan,
>
>Just wondering why you want electric trim. The manual system Van's sells
>for the RV6 is very simple and foolproof. It doesn't require any
>modification to the aileron. (Matter of fact, installation of the Navaid
>wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point...).
>
>You can see the system in my construction log:
>
>http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/fuse9.html
>
>The electric system will work well, however, if you slow down the servo.
>You also get to have the fighter plane coolie switch in the control
>stick!
>
>I like the simple approach, however.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Sam Buchanan
>"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
>
>
>Dan Wiesel wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am building a RV6a quickbuild which come with the ailerons completely
>> made. I would like to have electric trim, and Van's has the set up
>> available in their catalog.
>>
>> Has anyone tried to retrofit this electric trim servo motor, bracket etc
>> and would you recommend/not recommend it? (I would prefer electric to the
>> manual)
>>
>> Also, Bill at Vans thought I might try using the Electric Aileron trim for
>> the RV8, reworking it for the RV6a. Any ideas.
>>
>> By the way, has anyone ever seen the Sierra Flight System EFIS. Check out
>> their web site at www.sierraflightsystems.com and run the demo. I'm
>> considering entering the 21st century with a glass cockpit.
>>
>> (Reinstalled the controls this weekend, temporarily monted the HS and
>> VS,(kept coming down in the middle of the night to see my baby sitting in
>> the garage) and got in some serious garage flying time.....Yes, I made
>> engine noises too.
>> Dan
>>
>> Dan Wiesel
>> Interlink Recruiting
>> 408-551-6554
>> dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
>>
>
>
>
>
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | For Sale: Pacesetter 68 x 71 prop |
I have a Pacesetter 68 x 71 prop for sale. Prop is in like new condition. It
is for 150/160 hp lycoming. It has the urethane leading edge. I purchased
this prop from an RV-6A owner several years ago as a spare for my RV-4. I
never did use this prop and now no longer own the RV-4. $400.00 and I will
ship.
Louis Smith
Lousmith(at)aol.com
252-937-4905
North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
Sam:
How does the navaid connect to the manual aileron trim. And what is the
wrote:
>
>Dan,
>
>Just wondering why you want electric trim. The manual system Van's sells
>for the RV6 is very simple and foolproof. It doesn't require any
>modification to the aileron. (Matter of fact, installation of the Navaid
>wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point...).
>
>You can see the system in my construction log:
>
>http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/fuse9.html
>
>The electric system will work well, however, if you slow down the servo.
>You also get to have the fighter plane coolie switch in the control
>stick!
>
>I like the simple approach, however.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Sam Buchanan
>"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
>
>
>Dan Wiesel wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am building a RV6a quickbuild which come with the ailerons completely
>> made. I would like to have electric trim, and Van's has the set up
>> available in their catalog.
>>
>> Has anyone tried to retrofit this electric trim servo motor, bracket etc
>> and would you recommend/not recommend it? (I would prefer electric to the
>> manual)
>>
>> Also, Bill at Vans thought I might try using the Electric Aileron trim for
>> the RV8, reworking it for the RV6a. Any ideas.
>>
>> By the way, has anyone ever seen the Sierra Flight System EFIS. Check out
>> their web site at www.sierraflightsystems.com and run the demo. I'm
>> considering entering the 21st century with a glass cockpit.
>>
>> (Reinstalled the controls this weekend, temporarily monted the HS and
>> VS,(kept coming down in the middle of the night to see my baby sitting in
>> the garage) and got in some serious garage flying time.....Yes, I made
>> engine noises too.
>> Dan
>>
>> Dan Wiesel
>> Interlink Recruiting
>> 408-551-6554
>> dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
>>
>
>
>
>
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au> |
| Subject: | looking to share container |
Hi all,
Looks like i'll be ordering my kit soon *stupid grin*
Is there anyone in Australia who is looking to place an order in the very
near future and willing to share a container to save no freight?
cheers
Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Partain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com> |
For Sale 1995 RV-4 185 TTSN , 0320 D1A 160 HP, 185TTSN , Hartzell C/S Prop
185 TTSN, K/N Air Filter, Stainless exhaust pipes with crossover . Single
heater muff. Carburetor heat. Alternator cooling tube, Magneto cooling
tubes, Piper oil cooler, Fuel primer.
Terra 760D Com ,Terra 250D xpdr ,Apollo 360 moving map GPS ,ELT , PSII 1000
intercom, Vertical card compass, Altimeter, VSI ,Electronics International
CHT EGT OAT , Oil Pressure, Fuel pressure, Amp/Volt meter, Electronic Tach,
Lighting on All instruments with dimmer switch.
Navigation Lights, Rear position light, Strobes on wing tips, Dual landing
Lights enclosed in wing tips, Electric Flaps, Locking canopy (keyed same as
ignition), Wood stick grip,
Cabin heat with front and rear outlets, Two fresh air vents located on
canopy skirt.
Professional Paint, White with Blue stripping, Interior panels light Grey
with medium Grey Leather seats
Temper foam, Dark Gray Carpet , Firewall
insulation ,CD player
This is a very nice plane, always kept in a hanger and professionally
maintained. All avionics purchased new November 1996 and installed
professionally.
All plans and instrument documentation. Complete Logs
Cruise 187 mph @ 8.5 gph
Annual due 8/98 (Complete)
$53,000.00
Price includes 8/98 annual
Tony Partain
314-894-0828
Saint Louis MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty RV6A" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
Well, you certainly have me on this one, I didn't even think to look as see
if there was a FAR covering blinking "head lights".
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Wig wags
>
>If I remember, flash rate was 60 to 70 per minute in the FARs.
>From: Marty RV6A <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Sunday, November 01, 1998 11:11 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Wig wags
>
>
>>
>>How about using an auto emergency flasher hooked to a relay with two sets
>of
>>contacts, normally open and normally closed to run the port and starboard
>>landing lights? Would such a thing be possible? I checked with a friend
>>and his Allen Bradley catalog lists an appropriate relay, 12V and 30amp.
I
>>have a trailer flasher on my car and it must have internal loading because
>>with or with out a trailer the flasher blinks at the same rate all the
time
>>(trailer hook ups in the past were not so easy). IMHO, flash rate would
>be
>>about right. Maybe Bob Nicholas can comment on such a set up.
>>
>>List Donation 'wired in'. Keeping the frequent flyer miles.
>>Just starting wing structure.
>>
>>>Subject: Wig wags
>>>
>>>Gentleman, I am going to send a group reply to save some typing :-).
>>>The part number from Gal's for the traffic flasher is #L-FS020 and is
>>>currently priced at $39.99. This is a solid state and completely sealed
>>>unit. Installation consists of 5 wires: postive, negative, switch on,
>>>passenger side, and return (to driver's side).
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Running it dry, was: Dry tanks |
> The Bob Siebert method of discovering usable fuel and calibrating your
> fuel guages (who I learned it from, anyway).
>
> Don't run the engine.
> Prop airplane up to flight attitude. Disconnect fuel line - use electric
> fuel pump and pump fuel into gas can. After pump "empties" tanks, remove
> drain plugs and see what you have left.
> Replace plugs and after doing the math, put 5 gallons usable in each
tank.
> Mark the guages that _here_ there are 5 (or whatever you choose for
minimum
> fuel) gallons remaining.
This is a good idea, and I'll add two things. First, flight pitch attitude
can vary, of course, depending upon climb, descent, etc. Bring along a
helper, some tape, some paper and a small level. Tape the paper to the
side (inside would be preferred) of the plane. Then, perform a max angle
climb, and have your helper draw a line where the level indicates level. A
plumb line will also work. Do the same during a max angle descent. (I
suspect that fore/aft accelerations due to speed changes will not be a big
factor when in flight, so I have not addressed them.)
Second, kick in some rudder to create a slip or skid, such as might be used
in a rapid descent, and make a mark where the ball is.
Use the attitude lines and ball indications to prop the plane to these
attitudes before doing the above tests. A total of four combinations of
attitude and ball indications can now be tested, and the worst case
understood. For the left tank, it would probably be max descent combined
with right rudder.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Brietigam <brietig(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Hook-up |
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
> Listers;
> I have an 0-360 from Aero Sport in Canada, with the new lightweight
> 'nippo' alternator. Besides the battery hook-up, there are two male blade
> connectors on the back; one runs vertically, the other horizontal. Which
> one is the field hookup, and what is the other one for? This appears to
> be made for a one-piece plug to fit over both blades. Can I get these
> locally? Thanks.
>
Von, tries Van's Aircraft. They have everything you'll need.
Chuck Brietigam, RV-3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
> Good, I am not imagining I saw something on flop tubes. I will tell
>you Rusty that I don't know why I put the flop tube in in the first
>place. The only aerobatics I would ever do (intentionally that is) does
>not require a negative G fuel system. But, it seemed like a good idea
>at the time. I think I convinced myself that it would be useful in
>"bumpy" air.
You never know Ed. I "knew" I'd never need an inverted pickup because all
I'd ever consider doing was rolls, and maybe a loop or two. Just to be
safe, I set one tank up with a flop tube, and now I'm glad I did. About 5
weeks ago, on the excellent advice of one of our fine list members who shall
remain nameless (Brian Denk- Oops), I went to Mudry Aviation and got a
few hours of aerobatic training to see if it was something I'd want to do in
the RV-8. Guess what, hammerheads are fun, and so is inverted flight in a
masochistic sort of way.
This realization has pretty much been the last nail in the coffin for my
rotary conversion plans. I'm starting to keep my eye out for a good, well
used O-360 to be equipped with FI and a full inverted oil system. Maybe
I'll save the rotary idea for whatever project follows the RV-8.
>Ugh! Proseal - next to putting platenuts on I think I hated that part
>the most. The good news is do both tanks at the same time and get it
>overwith, otherwise you may never do the second tank{:>}.
You can stop trying to cheer me up now :-)
Rusty
RV-8 (tanks- if I ever get home)
Navarre, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
Does anyone know if there is an *AD* on the flop tube?
ie, inspect every 12 months?
Larry Olson
RV6 N606RV(res) - just ordered fuselage
Cave Creek, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Bibb <rbibb(at)fore.com> |
Well to add to the thread - I had run a tank dry before at altitude.
Switched and got the fan going again in about 5 seconds. So when it didn't
work at 800 feet I quickly started worrying about stalling it in and began
looking for a place to land. I don't know why it did not start right away
and given the shape of the airplane I never will. As for the check list
item - I was and am human and made a mistake - no excuses.
I'm not satisfied that there was not something "else" wrong that day that
contributed to the outcome. I just know that when I switched tanks, checked
boost, and cranked the engine it did not start. About that point I realized
I was not going to make it and remembered Van's admonishment to "fly the
airplane and do NOT stall!" The slow landing speed of the RV saved my life.
I shudder to think of the outcome if I had been in a Lancair IV.
I just think that if you want to try running a tank dry at altitude you best
be prepared for a dead stick landing. I had had two stopped engine
situations before in my -4 (one aforementioned dry tank and one hammerhead
induced stoppage) that both resulted in almost instantaneous restart so I
was somewhat shocked when it did not want to start as I was staring at
rapidly rising trees as the engine cranked and cranked and cranked.
But these things are easy to dead stick....I've got the battle scars to
prove it...
>
>
Richard E. Bibb Direct: 703-245-4505
Vice President, North American Sales Main: 703-245-4544
Fore Systems, Inc. FAX: 703-245-4500
1595 Spring Hill Road
5th Floor
Vienna, VA 22182
We're from Pittsburgh, we make networks that last.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
<< Matter of fact, installation of the Navaid
wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point. >>
Only if you always let the leveler fly the plane. I hand fly about 95% of the
time and find the coolie hat (with two axis electric trim) on the stick a very
nice feature.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electroair Ignition Systems |
> In the past, there was some very negative critisism of Jeff Rose's
> electronic ignition
> systems.
regarding my personal trials and tribulations with the system in question.
Throughout, I was careful not to lay blame where it did not belong, and was
simply reporting my experience, noting that it was at variance with that of
dozens of satisfied customers. Even after replacing the entire system with
new components, I still could not achieve safe, much less satisfactory ,
performance from the system. Mr. Rose gladly refunded most of my money and I
installed a second magneto, and have been flying my tractor-technology
Lycoming happily ever since. It was frustrating not being able to get the
system to work, even after lots of builder and mechanic-hour$ being thrown at
the problem. Despite these frustrations, I think the tone of the posts was
restrained and balanced. At no time did I unfairly criticize Jeff, who is a
true gentleman as far as I can tell, or his product, which has many ringing
endorsements from prominent RV-listers and members of the Rutan family.
> Although I had purchased two of them at that time, I wasn't qualified to
> comment on
> the subject since I hadn't tested them yet.
> I recently installed one in place of the right magneto on my Lycoming
> O-360 A1A, and
> after test flying it, I can report that it does everything that Jeff
> says it will.
only one set of plugs firing early is difficult to figure in an engine
designed to have its flame front ignited simultaneously from both sides ny two
plugs firing at exactly the same time. While you are at it, be sure to have a
fail-safe electrical system with back-up, since you are now betting your life
on the twelve volt bus.
> The instructions were easy to follow,
the early instructions I received was enough to make me think I had purchased
a Japanese product with translated directions.
and as recommended, I replaced the
> aircraft
> plugs with Auto-Lite type 386 (18mm) spark plugs gapped at 0.035". I
> believe these
> plugs are a key part of the installation since it would be very difficult
> to gap an aircraft
> plug to 0.035" without damaging the plug.
was supplying thumb tacks to make contact with the plug core!
Also $1.90 vs $16.00.
> In my opinion, Jeff rose is a very honest and knowledgeable person to do
> business
> with,
and I can highly recommend his product.
>
>
product. I either received a lemon or am one myself when it comes to
installation. Obviously, your mileage will vary. Consider all the angles
before taking this plunge. Remember, Jeff isn't going to fly this airplane
over unlandable terrain, you are. Strive to optimize reliability and consider
the failure modes.
My personal opinion: why bother with half of a variable timing system (i.e.
only one Electro-whatever and one magneto)? And don't go with all-electronic
ignition unless Bob Nuckolls personally signs off on your electrical system
design ;-)
Bill Boyd
RV-6A
**wish it HAD worked- I invested lots of time and $ in that thing before
tearing it out, and I could have used the extra 5 hp and 10% better mpg!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan A. Gembusia" <Bryan(at)GGGConcepts.com> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
You do not want to put a electrical charge, via a capacitence tube, to
avgas. You will go BOOM. These types of fuel systems were designed for Jet
A. Kerosine cannot be ignighted with just electricity. I do not know of
such a system for Avgas.
Bryan Gembusia
> Sounds like there is a need for a Flop Tube / Float Assembly kit
> needed to address this type of installation. Perhaps a capacitence type of
> probe would work in the same bay as the Flop Tube?
>
> I will need to investigate further!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Fuel Switches |
>
>Isn't the gas burned from the header tank in the fuselage and the fuel in
>the wing tanks transferred to the header tank before being burned? This
>keeps the bubbles out of the carb feed line.
Examination of the Yak's fuel system show that this is the case in the Yak.
The tanks feed a header tank that is the low point in the fuel system. I
answered my own question.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
>
>I have already purchased the UMA 2 1/2" tach (which received bad reveiws
>on the list) and was thinking of purchasing the matching 2 1/2" UMA
>Manifold pressure guage, any comments?
I have 5 UMA instruments in my new plane: two airspeed indicators, one VSI,
and two MAP guages. The MAP guages work just fine both both ASIs and the
VSI failed. I am not impressed with the quality of the UMA instruments.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: weird altimeter |
>
>Ernst,
> I believe I may have a similar problem with my newly flying RV-6A. My
>VSI indicates 1000 feet per minute down when I am in level flight. It
>reads zero on the ground and will indicate a climb by a lessening of the
>down rate. Did your situation have any effect on your VSI?? I suspect I
>have positive pressure in the static which would also mean I may be
>going 10 mph faster than indicated especially at the higher airspeeds.
I just had this problem in my aircraft. Turns out the VSI had a leak in
the case and static pressure was higher than cockpit pressure (not
unusual). I replaced the malfunctioning UMA VSI with something else.
Problem solved.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan A. Gembusia" <Bryan(at)GGGConcepts.com> |
Lets take this advice to heart. NTSB stats will show that 90 % of all
General Aviation Accidents are due to running out of fuel. Lets try to stay
above the 90%. Fill the tanks and keep a TESTED reserve.
Bryan Gembusia
> At about 800 ft AGL while turning final I ran the right tank dry. I did
> not
> panic but was unable to obtain a restart before I had to put my RV-4 in
> the
> trees short of the runway.
>
> As I said I did not lose my head but things got rather hairy and anxious
> when the prop turned over a bunch of times and did not fire. These birds
> develop a rather high sink rate with the fan stopped.
>
> In any event, I did not lose my life or even gain serious injury in the
> forced landing in trees - I was lucky.
>
> My pride and joy however, is a twisted pile of aluminum that will somehow
> make it back in the air someday (I have wing kit and other parts on order)
> and I learned a lesson I will never forget. Don't ever give yourself a
> chance to run a tank dry - NEVER.
>
> For now I'm flying a '75 Tiger - nice plane but no RV....
>
> Richard E. Bibb
> RV-4 N144KT - in rebuild - will fly by 2000
> Oak Hill, VA
> rbibb(at)fore.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
Richard,
You handled the emergency admirably. One restart attempt from 800 AGL,
abandoned when unsuccessful, sounds about right. At that point your life is
the first concern. The airplane will just have to give its life to save
yours. If you had continued in vain restart attempts to the extent that
you neglected flying the airplane, your story might have ended very badly
indeed.
I constantly pounded into my students' skulls the importance in an emergency
of choosing a plan quickly and sticking with it. An adequate plan executed
now is better than a perfect plan executed too late. Second-guessing your
(correct) decision to abandon restart attempts would most likely have been
disastrous. I demonstrated this point repeatedly in emergency procedures
simulators.
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
T-37 Instructor Pilot with many an hour in the EP simulator (Dial-a-Death)
>
>Switched and got the fan going again in about 5 seconds. So when it didn't
>work at 800 feet I quickly started worrying about stalling it in and began
>looking for a place to land. I don't know why it did not start right away
>and given the shape of the airplane I never will. As for the check list
>item - I was and am human and made a mistake - no excuses.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Seager <rv6cfi(at)vernonia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
Matter of fact, installation of the Navaid
wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point. >>
The navaid will track much better if the airplane is in trim first. I had three
axis elictric trim on my first plane (rv6) and for sure will have it on my second
airplane.It worked great. Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Well, it is about the time to start some soldering...'ya think I can borrow
that iron of yours? I understand if you don't like the way that this is
going, but tough shit...I'm gonna come steal it if you don't!
My MicroEncoder will be here Friday....Yipee! Sounds like a good night for
some brews and some solder smoke, huh?
How's the wings going? You may want to read Sam's section on the tanks...it
seems like some really good tips, but how would I know, I don't have to do
it! hee hee
BTW, Same spent 179 hours to complete both wings...holy shit this guy is
good....(not including the tanks, he spent 50 hours on those..)
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Listers:
Sorry for the post to the 'list, folks...It was ment to be sent directly to
the recipient! Also, I apologize in advance to any offended listers due to
the profanity in the email.
Paul Besing
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
>
>Just wondering why you want electric trim. The manual system Van's
>sells
>for the RV6 is very simple and foolproof. It doesn't require any
>modification to the aileron. (Matter of fact, installation of the
>Navaid
>wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point...).
>
Not really.
If you read the documentation with the Navaid unit it tells you not to
use the trim on the unit to trim a control imbalance (I believe they mean
because of fuel load imbalance or any other reason).
If I remember correctly they instruct the operator (pilot) to trim the
airplane, and then use the trim control on the autopilot unit for minor
tweaking only... not to deal with a major adjustment to roll trim.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
>
>Does anyone know if there is an *AD* on the flop tube?
>ie, inspect every 12 months?
>
>
No, but just as any other hose on an aircraft it has a limited life span.
As a result it will require periodic inspections to verify its condition.
BTW... just in case there is anyone on the list that doesn't totally
understand all of this stuff about flop tubes, and what your RV needs for
equipment to do aerobatics.
As already mentioned, if all of the aerobatics you will do will be
positive G manuvers you do not need a flop tube.
An even more misunderstood fact is that if you build an RV using an
engine fitted with a carburetor then the flop tube is a total waste of
time and money. A carb. requires positive gravity to operate. Having a
flop tube will not give you flop capabilities because as soon as you flop
the engine will quit anyway.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McLaughlin" <johnmc49(at)ecity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electroair Ignition Systems |
I just installed the ElectroAir on my RV6 kit (right mag) and test ran the
engine. It idles great and runs up fine. I used airplane plugs and gapped
to Jeff's specs. Still a few months from flying, but seems positive!
John McLaughlin
Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
Hi Guys & Gals:
Seeing as how I started this discusion will throw my two cents in for what
it is worth. Over the years I have found aircraft fuel guages leave a lot
to be desired and have long since used them only as a general reference. I
have no experiece whatsoever with the new electronic stuff so will not
comment on that. I think all will agree that fuel management is one of the
most important parts of flying At the risk of being a bit long winded
this is how I have handled it with light single engine aircraft and have
applied the same rules to flying the RV.
On opening the hangar door and before moving the aircraft, with a clear
sight tester check both tank drains and gascolator for water and any sign
of foreign material. (Have my gascolator mounted in gap between wing and
fuselage so that it will drain without the boost pump) Reason for not
moving is any water will have acumulated at these low spots and not get
disturbed. If you are wondering how any foreign material could get in with
fuel from our modern filtered fueling facilities, I made the big mistake of
sloshing my tanks when I built them and about a year later it started
coming loose but that is another story.
If my previous flight or flights add up to over two hours will refuel to
full tanks. prefer to refuel before hangering to cut down on condensation.
If flying without refueling I visually check the fuel levels. When
refueling visually check the fuel level and by seeing how much fuel each
tank takes you soon get used to judging how much fuel is remaining. Leave
the fuel down a half inch below the filler for expansion. I take off on the
left tank and change tanks every half hour to equalize weight and try to
keep my flights to a maximum of around three hours. There are a couple of
reasons for this, one the most "pressuring one is the range of my bladder
at my age" and the other is I like to have around an hour of fuel remaining
on arrival for the reasons all of you have talked about.
Why switch every half hour? This effectively eliminates the need for a
wing leveler and means that at the end of every hour you have about the
same amount of fuel in each tank. At the end of three hours you have a good
solid hour's fuel left and it would not matter which tank you are on for
landing but the fuel selector will automatically be on the right tank for
that occasional side slip.
You may say that the hour's reserve is overkill but how many times have we
tried to stretch it a bit and wind up maybe close to dark or with the
weather not so swift and wishing you had that hour's fuel. Besides after
three hours it is time for a stretch and climb out and kind of grin to
yourself and say I am 600 miles farther down the road since I took off.
Following this procedure one could do away with the fuel guages but the
final inspector would probably get upset. Also we still have to remember to
change tanks.
This is all based on power settings in the 65-70% range. I am not saying
this the way to do it but it works for me and blowing a tank is never on my
mind.
Eustace Bowhay RV 6 C-GHAY 20383
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Ignition Switch Hook-up |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers; I am just about ready to wrap up my electric and plumbing, but
have a problem with the Bendix ignition switch. Tony Bingelis's book
Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic and mentions a
jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? Or would I just hook up the L
and R to the respective mags, with the shielding on both going to the G
terminal?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
Please clarify. Applying a low 12 volts, and no sparks to a capacitive fuel sender
is going to ignite the fuel, how??
Finn
"Bryan A. Gembusia" wrote:
>
> You do not want to put a electrical charge, via a capacitence tube, to
> avgas. You will go BOOM. These types of fuel systems were designed for Jet
> A. Kerosine cannot be ignighted with just electricity. I do not know of
> such a system for Avgas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
<< Tony Bingelis's book
Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic and mentions a
jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
Von,
You bet! The jumper will cause the RH mag to be grounded out
durring the start. Your impulse mag (LH) is the only one you want firring
durring the start. Install the jumper.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Wow - New Email Weasel Program... |
Dear Listers,
I wrote a new program tonight I call "The Email Weasel". I've been having
an increasing problem with bounced email in recent months due to the fact
that many of the new email servers on the Internet aren't returning enough
error information for me to properly unsubscribe the offending addresses.
The Email Weasel works like this: A single email message with a unique
serial number is sent to each of the List email addresses. The email
message headers are specially configured so that all of the error messages
and any other responses to the message are returned to a single email box
here on the server. Using these error messages and the special serial
numbers, I was able to "weasel-out" about 30 or so bogus email addresses
from the three email Lists tonight! These 30 bogus addresses had heretofore
thwarted my other mechanisms for flagging bad addresses. Removing this
rather large number of addresses should decrease the amount of bounced
email received here everyday to a great deal. Best of all, it should also
decrease the message post turn-around time by an equally large amount!
I realize that receiving a test message every now and then may annoy a
few people. But, in the interest of keeping the Lists running smoothly,
I think that I will probably start running the Email Weasel about once
a month to weasel-out all those new bogus addresses. It seems like a small
price to pay for a tight ship, don't you think?
I'd like thank everyone for their continued support and encouragement!
Matt Dralle
RV, Kolb, and Zenith List Admin.
Matronics
- Note -
The System Upgrade Fund Raiser is still underway. If you haven't yet made
your contribution to support the most recent List system upgrades, won't you
please do so today? Its fast and easy using the web site below. Thanks!! -MD
http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "B. W. Blackler" <wref(at)ozemail.com.au> |
G'Day All,
A friend of mine owns an RV-4 and is getting a new prop... This prop
turns out to be a bit thicker in the hub than the old one and he needs
AN7-61 bolts... Spruce can't help us and were running out of options...
Can anyone help? Or, does anyone know what other options are available ?
Regards
Wayne Blackler
O-360 Long EZ N.Y.F.
AUSTRALIA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
After my engine quit (fortunately temporarily) while feeding fuel from
my flop tube tank which was still indicating over 1/4 tank, I have
decided that I will remove the flop tube or secure it so it does not
flop. Since the peace of mind knowing I can suck down several more
gallons vs never flying inverted, I can easily forego the flying
inverted part.
Ed
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
>
> Ken Hitchcough said:
> > ... I think a lot of builders put
> > in a flop tube because they think it's the thing to do. I was also going
> > to do that.
In my case I decided the likelihood was quite
> small, so there wasn't much point in the extra cost, work, weight,
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Well, that bug may yet bite me, sounds like it could be fun - so will
first find out if the flop tube had anything to do with my engine
stoppage, I may be unfairly blaming the flop tube, but it is the only
difference between left and right tanks.
You will probably need the three rotor wankel for what ever follows the
RV-9 {:>}.
Ed
Russell Duffy wrote:
>
> -
>
>got a
> few hours of aerobatic training to see if it was something I'd want to do in
> the RV-8. Guess what, hammerheads are fun, and so is inverted flight in a
> masochistic sort of way.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
>Tallahassee,FL
>N143CH passed it's F.A.A. inspection, first flight very soon.
Well, what was the verdict? Did he find anything that warranted rework? Were
you satisfied with the inspection? What was the cost? Is Jim going to fly it
for you or is your uncle? What do you think about all of these questions?
Jerry Isler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
UNLESS they both have impulses...
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>
>
><< Tony Bingelis's book
> Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic and mentions a
> jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
> 0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
>
> Von,
> You bet! The jumper will cause the RH mag to be grounded out
>durring the start. Your impulse mag (LH) is the only one you want firring
>durring the start. Install the jumper.
> Ryan Bendure Co.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
A further question on the ignition switch; if I am supposed to use the
jumper for the RH mag, what do I do with the terminal LR? Firewall
Forward shows that one going to the left magneto retard breaker; where is
that? In reading page 187 it sounds like retard breaker mags are only on
systems with a starting vibrator, which I don't have. Still confused.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
><< Tony Bingelis's book
> Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic and mentions a
> jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
> 0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
>
> Von,
> You bet! The jumper will cause the RH mag to be grounded
>out
>durring the start. Your impulse mag (LH) is the only one you want
>firring
>durring the start. Install the jumper.
> Ryan Bendure Co.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
<199811021729.JAA19884(at)proxy4.ba.best.com>
>How does the navaid connect to the manual aileron trim. And what is the
>model or description of this unit.
>>... installation of the Navaid
>>wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point...).
IMO, having installed and used both the Navaid and Van's manual aileron
trim in my -6a, I'd recommend this approach. Why? Because you will not
always be flying with the Navaid on, especially on those short breakfast
flights. Van's trim system is so simple and cheap, why not install it? The
installation does not interfere with the Navaid at all, they are entirely
seperate systems. Also, I believe if you manually trim AND then use the
Navaid, your putting less pressure on the Navaid servo, could help extend
the life of the unit in the long run.
Dave Hudgins
RV-6A Nashville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wow - New Email Weasel Program... |
Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 wrote:
> . It seems like a small
> price to pay for a tight ship, don't you think?
>
Don't stop at flagging them! Flog em!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
Ok, Ok, I have been suitably (and justifiably) chastised.
Obviously, I don't believe the aileron trim to be unnecessary since I am
still incorporating it on my plane (for the stated reasons) even though
it will also have the Navaid. The little blurb about the trim being a
moot point should have been edited from the post before I hit the send
button (I did some painting without a mask this weekend....).
I have indeed carefully read the documentation from Navaid (before I
bought the unit).
Whew....
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Just wondering why you want electric trim. The manual system Van's
> >sells
> >for the RV6 is very simple and foolproof. It doesn't require any
> >modification to the aileron. (Matter of fact, installation of the
> >Navaid
> >wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point...).
> >
> Not really.
> If you read the documentation with the Navaid unit it tells you not to
> use the trim on the unit to trim a control imbalance (I believe they mean
>
> because of fuel load imbalance or any other reason).
> If I remember correctly they instruct the operator (pilot) to trim the
> airplane, and then use the trim control on the autopilot unit for minor
> tweaking only... not to deal with a major adjustment to roll trim.
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Melvin Barlow" <Melvin.Barlow(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Hello All. I'm a recent resubscriber to the list after a couple of years
away. Too much mail to cope with. Now that I'm retired, maybe I'll have time
to read it all. Lots of good info here.
I have a new problem with my 1988 RV 4. The Marvel Scheller Carb. is leaking
fuel out of the venturi when I pressurize the system with the boost pump
during preflight. I suspect this indicates it is time to replace the carb.
with a rebuilt unit. Old one has about 2600 Hrs. on it, close to 600 in the
RV 4. I'm shopping prices now. Checked with a local parts supplier, have an
E-mail in to Mattituck, and A.S.S. & Chief are on the list to check.
Questions:
1. Does anyone have a different idea on the source/solution to the problem?
2. Anyone have a recent experience (good or bad) with any of the sources I
mentioned above?
3. Any other sources I should consider?
Greatly appreciate any input, I'm getting a lot of good info from the list
already, Esp. re. Dry Tanks, Etc. Contributed today, BTW. My E-mail Addr.:
melbarlow(at)worldnet.att.net in case anyone wants to mail me privately.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
How would I know if they both have impulses? Care to elaborate?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>UNLESS they both have impulses...
>
>From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 2:19 AM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>
>
>>
>>
>><< Tony Bingelis's book
>> Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic and mentions a
>> jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
>> 0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
>>
>> Von,
>> You bet! The jumper will cause the RH mag to be grounded
>out
>>durring the start. Your impulse mag (LH) is the only one you want
>firring
>>durring the start. Install the jumper.
>> Ryan Bendure Co.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
>
>
><< Matter of fact, installation of the Navaid
> wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point. >>
>
>Only if you always let the leveler fly the plane. I hand fly about 95% of
the
>time and find the coolie hat (with two axis electric trim) on the stick a
very
>nice feature.
I wonder if you can use a servo on manual aileron trim setup somehow
(instead of the external lever, have the servo under the seat skin biasing
the springs).
It would eliminate the tab on the aileron, and the long wire run. Thoughts
anyone? My right/left coolie hat is waiting for an assignment .
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Leaking Carb. |
Buy a rebuild kit. Very easy and inexpensive.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Aileron trim |
Most autopilots tell you to trim first then engage. The ride can get
temporarily wild if you are really out of trim and disconnect the autopilot.
Especially at night, IFR on a precision approach!
Not only that, you'll save a lot of wear and tear on the autopilot servos.
Scott's right, you need the trim.
Bob
RV8#423
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "greg robl" <gregrv(at)hotmail.com> |
"Subscribe"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leslie B. Williams" <lesliebwilliams(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
Von, check the Aircraft Spruce & Speciaties catalog. It has a diagram in
it. One also should have come with the switch.
Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
Tony Bingelis's book Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic
and mentions a
>>> jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
>>> 0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Electric Aileron trim |
Listers,
The Navaid wing leveler (as well as the Century I) is a rate based
system. This means that an error is required in order for a correction
to be made. In this case, the error is rate of turn which is being
controlled by roll. If the aircraft is out of roll trip (i.e., ailerons)
then the wing leveler will constantly hunt, and on a nice, smooth
flight, you will notice the slight but constant roll from side to side.
Subtle, but it is there, and it will work the servo harder and shorten
it's useful life. IMHO, that, and flight without the wing lever ON, is
why an aileron trim system is still needed....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> >How does the navaid connect to the manual aileron trim. And what is
> the
> >model or description of this unit.
>
> >>... installation of the Navaid
> >>wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point...).
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wig-wag flashers and lights |
So now that everybody is checking their nosegear, how are you supporting the
airframe to pull the nosegear leg? It seems like hoisting it from the top
of the engine mount ring would be the easiest. Comments?
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)mci2000.com
http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
When you pull the prop through, do you hear two clicks or one? Since they
are timed to fire at the same time, it might be hard to tell. You could
remove an inspection plug so you could see the gear inside the mag. If the
gear appears to stop then spin rapidly at the click of the impulse, then
there is one on that mag.
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>
> How would I know if they both have impulses? Care to elaborate?
>Thanks.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>writes:
>>
>>UNLESS they both have impulses...
>>
>>From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com <RV4131rb(at)aol.com>
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 2:19 AM
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>><< Tony Bingelis's book
>>> Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic and mentions a
>>> jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
>>> 0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
>>>
>>> Von,
>>> You bet! The jumper will cause the RH mag to be grounded
>>out
>>>durring the start. Your impulse mag (LH) is the only one you want
>>firring
>>>durring the start. Install the jumper.
>>> Ryan Bendure Co.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leaking Carb. |
Sound like the float needle valve is leaking or the float is sticking.
From: Melvin Barlow <Melvin.Barlow(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 9:52 AM
Subject: RV-List: Leaking Carb.
>
>Hello All. I'm a recent resubscriber to the list after a couple of years
>away. Too much mail to cope with. Now that I'm retired, maybe I'll have
time
>to read it all. Lots of good info here.
>
>I have a new problem with my 1988 RV 4. The Marvel Scheller Carb. is
leaking
>fuel out of the venturi when I pressurize the system with the boost pump
>during preflight. I suspect this indicates it is time to replace the carb.
>with a rebuilt unit. Old one has about 2600 Hrs. on it, close to 600 in the
>RV 4. I'm shopping prices now. Checked with a local parts supplier, have an
>E-mail in to Mattituck, and A.S.S. & Chief are on the list to check.
>
>Questions:
>1. Does anyone have a different idea on the source/solution to the problem?
>2. Anyone have a recent experience (good or bad) with any of the sources I
>mentioned above?
>3. Any other sources I should consider?
>Greatly appreciate any input, I'm getting a lot of good info from the list
>already, Esp. re. Dry Tanks, Etc. Contributed today, BTW. My E-mail Addr.:
>melbarlow(at)worldnet.att.net in case anyone wants to mail me privately.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick.Osgood(at)born.com |
I am just about to start working on my 6A fuselage. In Frank Justice's
manual he suggests getting the Dynafocal mount now to use it for alignment
purposes.
My question is:
A) Has any one proceeded without the mount and if so were there any
difficulties?
B) According to Van's catalog, the Dynafocal mounts are 63.57 per pair any
you need four pair. Does this seem correct??
Thanks
Rick Osgood
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Welcome Greg Robl! |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers; Greg Robl of Independence, Oregon has joined the list, and will
be of great help to us all. He is a friend of mine, has helped me alot on
my RV-8. He has built an RV-3, RV-4, and an RV-6A, as well as co-built an
RV-8 for Jim Oveross. Talk about a man of experience! Greg is currently
building an RV-8 for himself. Welcome to the list, Greg! Get your
thinking cap on, because we've got alot of questions for you to answer!
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Guys and Gals;
You have helped me determine that I do indeed need the jumper on the
Right mag, but what what about the terminal marked LR for left retard?
Leave this one open? Thanks for the help.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>Von, check the Aircraft Spruce & Speciaties catalog. It has a diagram
>in
>it. One also should have come with the switch.
>
>Les Williams/RV-6AQ/Tacoma WA
>
>
>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>Tony Bingelis's book Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup
>schematic
>and mentions a
>>>> jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on
>my
>>>> 0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Melvin Barlow" <Melvin.Barlow(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
According to John Schwaner's book "The Magneto Ignition System", There are
two types of magneto systems - Impulse coupled and retard breaker. If you
have the retard breaker type, you need the starting vibrator to go with it
(says here that is a separate component). A diagram (Pg. 48) shows the left
mag. with two breakers - advance and retard. The LR terminal on the switch
should be connected to the Left Retard breaker.
If you want to know more, I'd recommend Schwaner's book. I rebuilt my Bendix
(impulse coupled) mags. last year. Worked out pretty well. Book is available
from Sacramento Sky Ranch, (916)421-7672. Maybe I'll tackle my Carb. this
year instead of buying a rebuild. My $0.02.
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>
>A further question on the ignition switch; if I am supposed to use the
>jumper for the RH mag, what do I do with the terminal LR? Firewall
>Forward shows that one going to the left magneto retard breaker; where is
>that? In reading page 187 it sounds like retard breaker mags are only on
>systems with a starting vibrator, which I don't have. Still confused.
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>>
>>
>><< Tony Bingelis's book
>> Firewall Forward on pg. 188 shows a hookup schematic and mentions a
>> jumper to be used with retard breaker mags. I have slick mags on my
>> 0-360-A1A, do I need to use this jumper? >>
>>
>> Von,
>> You bet! The jumper will cause the RH mag to be grounded
>>out
>>durring the start. Your impulse mag (LH) is the only one you want
>>firring
>>durring the start. Install the jumper.
>> Ryan Bendure Co.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dynafocal Mount |
In a message dated 11/3/98 1:35:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Rick.Osgood(at)born.com writes:
<< I am just about to start working on my 6A fuselage. In Frank Justice's
manual he suggests getting the Dynafocal mount now to use it for alignment
purposes.
My question is:
A) Has any one proceeded without the mount and if so were there any
difficulties?>>
Most everyone proceeds without the mount as this is part of the finnish kit.
Having the mount would be nice but is not necessary.
<< B) According to Van's catalog, the Dynafocal mounts are 63.57 per pair any
you need four pair. Does this seem correct?? >>
Yes, you will need 4 total. Note, the mount that you referred to in your
first question is the engine/gear mount (welded 4130 about $600). You will not
need the rubber engine mounts until you are ready to install your engine.
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | wig-wag flashers and lights |
Ed,
Easiest way is to tie down the tail! I used one of those twist into the
ground tie downs. It works quite well.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> From: Ed Bundy [SMTP:ebundy(at)mci2000.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:48 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: wig-wag flashers and lights
>
>
> So now that everybody is checking their nosegear, how are you supporting
> the
> airframe to pull the nosegear leg? It seems like hoisting it from the top
> of the engine mount ring would be the easiest. Comments?
>
> Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
> ebundy(at)mci2000.com
> http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynafocal Mount |
>
>
> A) Has any one proceeded without the mount and if so were there any
> difficulties?
Had the entire fuselage built befor fitting the mount. If you leave pilot holes
for the mount when building then it is an easy matter to align the mount and
enlarge the holes.
> B) According to Van's catalog, the Dynafocal mounts are 63.57 per pair any
> you need four pair. Does this seem correct??
>
I went to a FBO where they were changing out flying school engines and picked
out four real clean used mounts. They cleaned up well and are doing the job - all
for free!
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for a Lycoming O-360 |
Listers,
My 6AQB is almost ready for an engine! I'd like to get an O-360 & put one
of the new fixed pitch Sensenichs on it.
Options are:
New - ~20K from Van's
Overhauled - $12-16K
~1000 hrs SMOH - who knows.
Anyone got any opinions, advice, leads on engine suppliers?
I'm planning to talk to Bart Lalonde (Progressive Air) & Tom Schwietz (Aero
Engines).
Regards,
Chris Good
West Bend, WI.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
>
>You do not want to put a electrical charge, via a capacitence tube, to
>avgas. You will go BOOM. These types of fuel systems were designed for Jet
>A. Kerosine cannot be ignighted with just electricity. I do not know of
>such a system for Avgas.
A charge and a discharge are two different things. Capacitance type fuel
level sensors ARE safe to use with Avgas.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for a Lycoming O-360 |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Chris; Just about everybody around here is using Aero Sport engines with
good success.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Listers,
>
>My 6AQB is almost ready for an engine! I'd like to get an O-360 & put
>one
>of the new fixed pitch Sensenichs on it.
>
>Options are:
>
>New - ~20K from Van's
>Overhauled - $12-16K
>~1000 hrs SMOH - who knows.
>
>Anyone got any opinions, advice, leads on engine suppliers?
>
>I'm planning to talk to Bart Lalonde (Progressive Air) & Tom Schwietz
>(Aero
>Engines).
>
>Regards,
>
>Chris Good
>West Bend, WI.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
Check with Sensenich. They may sell him a set of prop bolts separately.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
>AN7-61 bolts... Spruce can't help us and were running out of options...
>Can anyone help? Or, does anyone know what other options are available ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis Autopilot |
At our RV builders meeting last night, a few of us were discussing the
Navaid (single axis) vs.. the STEC (double axis) autopilots. Three of the
guys have flying RV's, one with a Navaid, one installing one and the other
without. The builder with the flying RV6 got his instrument rating in his
plane and is building a second 6. He is planning on installing a double
axis STEC in the plane he is building and says he rarely uses the Navaid.
The issue is reducing the workload of the pilot in both VFR and IFR
environments. It was the consensus of these three pilots that holding a
stable altitude (+- 100 ft) was more difficult than holding heading given
the speed of the aircraft (170-180 mph) and the stick sensitivity. Their
experience is that when the pilot has to look at charts or fiddle with
radios (i.e.. take your eyes off your scan or down from looking outside),
the airplane can gain or loss 100-200 feet VERY quickly without any tactile
sensation to the pilot. Holding a legal IFR heading in this situation is
much easier.
This pilot as well as his hanger mate (who also has a 6 with a Navaid) do
not use them. The hanger mate has had a problem with the Navaid suddenly
veering off course.
I have been planning on a Navaid all along. The price of an STEC 2 axis is
frightening but the discussion last night got my brain engaged again.
Any thoughts?
Ross Mickey
6A Canopy fiberglass
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | aileron trim and navaid |
Thanks to all who explained the merits of the installation of both systems.
Much obliged
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - controls/empennage mounting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric Aileron trim |
o.com>
Bill at Vans told me to consider modifying the RV8 aileron trim kit(which
is similar to the RV6 manual trim except actuated by a server if I want
wanted to have electric aileron without putting the servo out in the
>
>>
>>
>><< Matter of fact, installation of the Navaid
>> wing leveler kinda makes the aileron trim a moot point. >>
>>
>>Only if you always let the leveler fly the plane. I hand fly about 95% of
>the
>>time and find the coolie hat (with two axis electric trim) on the stick a
>very
>>nice feature.
>
>I wonder if you can use a servo on manual aileron trim setup somehow
>(instead of the external lever, have the servo under the seat skin biasing
>the springs).
>
>It would eliminate the tab on the aileron, and the long wire run. Thoughts
>anyone? My right/left coolie hat is waiting for an assignment .
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
>
>
>
>
>
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Builder Assistance |
Hi, my name is Scott Brown, owner of Florida RV-Ation. I custom build RV's for
customers with a love for RV4's, RV6's, and RV8's at a very affordable price!
If you or any of your friends are interested in my services, please email me
at FLARV8N(at)aol.com or call 561-748-2429.
Thanks,
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
Wag Aero also sells Prop bolts reasonably.
From: Tom Craig-Stearman <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop Bolts
>
>Check with Sensenich. They may sell him a set of prop bolts separately.
>
>Regards,
>Tom Craig-Stearman
>
>
>
>>AN7-61 bolts... Spruce can't help us and were running out of options...
>>Can anyone help? Or, does anyone know what other options are available ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis |
Autopilot
Can we get some more feed back on the single axis autopilot from other
owners of Navaids. STEC' s are $4500 ++, but I dont want to spend $1300
hundred on a Navaid if I dont use it.
>
>At our RV builders meeting last night, a few of us were discussing the
>Navaid (single axis) vs.. the STEC (double axis) autopilots. Three of the
>guys have flying RV's, one with a Navaid, one installing one and the other
>without. The builder with the flying RV6 got his instrument rating in his
>plane and is building a second 6. He is planning on installing a double
>axis STEC in the plane he is building and says he rarely uses the Navaid.
>
>The issue is reducing the workload of the pilot in both VFR and IFR
>environments. It was the consensus of these three pilots that holding a
>stable altitude (+- 100 ft) was more difficult than holding heading given
>the speed of the aircraft (170-180 mph) and the stick sensitivity. Their
>experience is that when the pilot has to look at charts or fiddle with
>radios (i.e.. take your eyes off your scan or down from looking outside),
>the airplane can gain or loss 100-200 feet VERY quickly without any tactile
>sensation to the pilot. Holding a legal IFR heading in this situation is
>much easier.
>
>This pilot as well as his hanger mate (who also has a 6 with a Navaid) do
>not use them. The hanger mate has had a problem with the Navaid suddenly
>veering off course.
>
>I have been planning on a Navaid all along. The price of an STEC 2 axis is
>frightening but the discussion last night got my brain engaged again.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Ross Mickey
>6A Canopy fiberglass
>
>
>
>
>
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dipaula(at)pete.nit.disa.mil |
| Subject: | building in tucson? |
hiya folks,
i'm back on the list (mostly in lurk mode) after having relocated from
the mid-atlantic... i'm now in sunny tucson, arizona. still haven't
started building anything yet... but i promised my wife i wouldn't
start until after 1) i get my license, and 2) we have a house.
we're making progress on both points... i'm taking lessons at snoopy's
flight school at ryan field, and we just put in a bid on a house (new
construction - we're talking 4-6 months before i'll have a garage...)
on both points, i'm planning to start construction next fall after
copperstate, which is when i plan to confirm my decision with a test
flight of whatever my choices have narrowed down to.
anyway...
at least one friend (another student pilot) from snoopy's is also interested
in building, and we're looking to see if there's any projects in the area
that we can observe (and possibly help with). i tried calling the local
EAA chapter at the number listed in the copperstate program, but haven't
been able to get ahold of anyone.
so if anyone is in tucson, please let me know! i'd really like to
see the work in progress.
ob.decisions: i had been planning to build an RV for quite some time,
until i went to copperstate last month and fell in love with the lancair
360. however... i did some checking, and found that the lancair takes a
_lot_ longer and costs a lot more than advertised, based on the budgets and
actual build times of lancair builders out there. (i.e., i should expect
at least 3000-4000 hours and budget around $50k-$80k for the whole project...
both a lot more than an RV!). and then there's the issue of protecting it
from the sun (needs UV-blocking paint _and_ a hangar, since the sunlight and
heat are so bad here most of the year), and working with chemicals around my
daughter... it's a beautiful plane, but i think i'll feel a lot better
about both building and owning an all-aluminum airplane. so i'm once again
leaning towards the RV-8, especially since the projected build time (<1500
hours) is supposed to be so low... the sooner i fly, the better!
responses to me directly, please.
-D-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wig-wag flashers and lights |
>So now that everybody is checking their nosegear, how are you supporting the
>airframe to pull the nosegear leg? It seems like hoisting it from the top
>of the engine mount ring would be the easiest.
Thought I'd install a concrete anchor (with 1/2" x 13 female threads) at
the rear tie down location in the hanger, screw in an eye bolt, and ratchet
it down. Then prop up underneath the engine mount with a couple of 2 x 4's
for that extra warm and fuzzy feeling. May also put a little weight on the
inboard section of the horiz. stab./rear fuselage (sandbags) to help offset
the stress. With the tiedown eyebolt removed from the floor, there's no
stud to trip over later.
Dave Hudgins
RV-6A Nashville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
Thanks all for the elect flap installations tips, They appear to work fine
(used the 12 volt lawn mower battery).
> From: Randall Henderson <randall(at)edt.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Electric Flaps (was Re: RV-List: RV6A)
> Date: Monday, November 02, 1998 2:35 PM
>
>
> > Would like to install my motor for the electric flaps befor fitting
wing.
> > Any suggestions from from experience would be appreciated.
>
> A couple of suggetstions:
>
> 1) Install the flap weldment before installing the motor and supporting
> channels, and check to make sure the forward flap weldment arm clears
> the forward channel (the one the motor attaches to) during installation.
> I found it was necessary to move the bottom end of this channel forward
> 1/2" or so from where the plans showed it, otherwise it would interfere
> with the weldement arm.
>
> 2) The plans (when I did it anyway) were ambiguous as to the up/down
> orientation of the center bearing block. There is a "thick" half, and a
> "thin" half, and it doesn't say which one is on the bottom. I think
> either way can be made to work; I installed mine "thin side down", but
> after doing that I realized "thick side down" might have been better, as
> it would raise the end blocks up to where their attach bolts won't
> cutting little notches in the fwd seat floor to clear the bolt heads).
> Also if you put carpet in the baggage cpt. this will give you
> room to put the carpet underneath (if you care about that). BUT...
> thick side down will also mean the weldment arm will be higher, so the
> fwd. channel will need to be further forward to clear it (see tip
> #1)...! So it may be that thin side down is right after all.
>
> Amazing how one thing affects another, which affects another, etc....
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
> Portland, OR
> http://www.edt.com/homewing
> randall(at)edt.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis |
Autopilot
>I have been planning on a Navaid all along. The price of an STEC 2 axis is
>frightening but the discussion last night got my brain engaged again.
>
>Any thoughts?
I would agree that the altitude hold feature would be VERY welcome on a
bumpy IFR flight. Shoot, if your not paying attention, it's sometimes hard
to keep consistant altitude on a smooth VFR flight. IMO, the STEC is
probably a better unit, but also very expensive. Over the last couple of
years, I've discussed the development of an altitude hold unit with the
Navaid guys and would like to add one to complement the wing leveler in my
-6. They keep telling me their working on it, but haven't got the bugs
worked out yet. Estimated price would be about the same as the wing
leveler, $1300.
Now, the people at STEC say their altitude hold unit will also work with
the Navaid unit. I would guess that the price for the altitude hold alone
would be higher than a package deal for both axis from STEC. It will
probably come down to just how much your willing to spend, like so many
other decisions in life.
Have I muddied the water or helped a little?
Dave Hudgins
Nashville
________________________________________________________________________________
I had a heck of time finding prop bolts and the people that helped me out was
performance propellers ... look in sport aviation in the back for phone
numbers etc .
hope this will help
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Lauritsen" <clevtool(at)tdsi.net> |
| Subject: | 37deg. Flareing tool in Denver |
Does anyone in the Denver area have a 37 degree flaring tool that they would
loan to a fellow RV builder for one flare? ( I would guess he could bring
the tube to you )
Drop me a note.
Thanks,
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, IA 50036
1-800-368-1822 orders
1-515-432-6794 questions
1-515-432-7804 FAX
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
http://www.cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <"catbird(at)taylortel.com"(at)taylortel.com> |
| Subject: | Propeller Spacer |
If anyone is planning on using a wood propeller with an O-360
engine I have a 2 1/4" propeller extension, crush plate, and bolts I
purchased from Performance Propellers. I paid a little over $320 for
these items. I will sell for half price $160. This extension is made by
Saber Engineering. I think it is the same one that Van's sells for $200
just for the extension.
The reason I am selling is that I changed horses in the middle
of the stream so to speak, and went with the new Sensenich 72FM metal
prop. I can't use the Saber extension with this prop.
If interested e-mail me personally at .
Carroll Bird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis Autopilot |
You can get the single axis version of the STEC. I don't remember what I
paid, but for some reason I was thinking that $4500 included the altitude
hold option. I ***MAY*** be wrong. Getting older these days and the memory
is not as good as it used to be.
JAmes
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis
Autopilot
>
>Can we get some more feed back on the single axis autopilot from other
>owners of Navaids. STEC' s are $4500 ++, but I dont want to spend $1300
>hundred on a Navaid if I dont use it.
>
>>
>>At our RV builders meeting last night, a few of us were discussing the
>>Navaid (single axis) vs.. the STEC (double axis) autopilots. Three of the
>>guys have flying RV's, one with a Navaid, one installing one and the other
>>without. The builder with the flying RV6 got his instrument rating in his
>>plane and is building a second 6. He is planning on installing a double
>>axis STEC in the plane he is building and says he rarely uses the Navaid.
>>
>>The issue is reducing the workload of the pilot in both VFR and IFR
>>environments. It was the consensus of these three pilots that holding a
>>stable altitude (+- 100 ft) was more difficult than holding heading given
>>the speed of the aircraft (170-180 mph) and the stick sensitivity. Their
>>experience is that when the pilot has to look at charts or fiddle with
>>radios (i.e.. take your eyes off your scan or down from looking outside),
>>the airplane can gain or loss 100-200 feet VERY quickly without any
tactile
>>sensation to the pilot. Holding a legal IFR heading in this situation is
>>much easier.
>>
>>This pilot as well as his hanger mate (who also has a 6 with a Navaid) do
>>not use them. The hanger mate has had a problem with the Navaid suddenly
>>veering off course.
>>
>>I have been planning on a Navaid all along. The price of an STEC 2 axis
is
>>frightening but the discussion last night got my brain engaged again.
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>>Ross Mickey
>>6A Canopy fiberglass
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Dan
>
>Dan Wiesel
>Interlink Recruiting
>408-551-6554
>dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis Autopilot |
The STEC does in fact cost more.
But ... I looked at the two and chose the STEC for the following reasons
(not necessarily in order)
1. STEC has "traditional" turn coordinator ... I wondered how **I** would
handle the LED's if IFR.
2. STEC (potentially) has more "R&D" behind it for the future as they sell
many other models for many aircraft types
3. STEC quality ***seems*** to be much better.
4. STEC had altitude hold option
Earlier posts from me discussed the support they gave (great!). I am happy
with it so far ... but the plane is not flying yet.
James
RV6AQB ... control sticks
Columbia, SC
From: Ross Mickey <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 3:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis Autopilot
>
>At our RV builders meeting last night, a few of us were discussing the
>Navaid (single axis) vs.. the STEC (double axis) autopilots. Three of the
>guys have flying RV's, one with a Navaid, one installing one and the other
>without. The builder with the flying RV6 got his instrument rating in his
>plane and is building a second 6. He is planning on installing a double
>axis STEC in the plane he is building and says he rarely uses the Navaid.
>
>The issue is reducing the workload of the pilot in both VFR and IFR
>environments. It was the consensus of these three pilots that holding a
>stable altitude (+- 100 ft) was more difficult than holding heading given
>the speed of the aircraft (170-180 mph) and the stick sensitivity. Their
>experience is that when the pilot has to look at charts or fiddle with
>radios (i.e.. take your eyes off your scan or down from looking outside),
>the airplane can gain or loss 100-200 feet VERY quickly without any tactile
>sensation to the pilot. Holding a legal IFR heading in this situation is
>much easier.
>
>This pilot as well as his hanger mate (who also has a 6 with a Navaid) do
>not use them. The hanger mate has had a problem with the Navaid suddenly
>veering off course.
>
>I have been planning on a Navaid all along. The price of an STEC 2 axis is
>frightening but the discussion last night got my brain engaged again.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>Ross Mickey
>6A Canopy fiberglass
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electroair Ignition Systems |
>only one set of plugs firing early is difficult to figure in an engine
>designed to have its flame front ignited simultaneously from both sides ny
two
>plugs firing at exactly the same time. While you are at it, be sure to
have a
>fail-safe electrical system with back-up, since you are now betting your life
>on the twelve volt bus.
Batteries properly maintained are very reliable. I encourage my
builders to take a fusible-linked always hot feed for the electronic
igntion right from the hot side of the battery master relay. This
way, the electronic ignition runs even when the rest of the system
has been shut down. Further, this is no more hazardous than the
standard magneto wiring . . . engine hot any time switch is ON.
If one is installing but one electronic ignition and leaving one
mag on, the overall reliability will improve (assuming proper attention
to the battery's condition) . . . a mag is more likely to turn TU than
a properly installed electronic ignition.
Dual batteries are needed only when dual electronic ignitions are
installed.
>
>My personal opinion: why bother with half of a variable timing system (i.e.
>only one Electro-whatever and one magneto)? And don't go with all-electronic
>ignition unless Bob Nuckolls personally signs off on your electrical system
>design ;-)
From what I can deduce, the major improvments in engine
performance are achieved with the first ignition, one is hard pressed
to see a difference when the second on is added unless you spend
a lot of cruise time at low altitudes (higher manifold pressures).
>**wish it HAD worked- I invested lots of time and $ in that thing before
>tearing it out, and I could have used the extra 5 hp and 10% better mpg!
Me too . . . I would REALLY have liked to know what the problem
was. There had to be a reason grounded in the physics of the matter.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 37deg. Flareing tool in Denver |
have him call me at 303 756 6543
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankv(at)ee.cit.ac.nz> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, Bryan A. Gembusia wrote:
> You do not want to put a electrical charge, via a capacitence tube, to
> avgas. You will go BOOM.
Bryan,
Whilst it is OK to be ignorant, it is NOT OK to project FUD onto others
based on your ignorance. Especially, its not OK to pretend to know
what you're talking about when you don't. Here's some facts:
1. It's actually quite difficult to make avgas go BOOM. That's why we need
complex carburettors and ignition systems. Try this at home: Put the ends
of two wires connected to the + and - terminals of a battery into a puddle
of petrol. Nothing happens unless you touch the wires together to cause a
spark.
2. As you fill up your airplane with avgas, you are charging it up. Hence
the need for a ground connection.
3. Wherever there are two electrical conductors at different ptoentials,
there is an electrical field between them. This includes float-type
fuel senders.
> These types of fuel systems were designed for Jet A.
Some of these systems were designed for Jet A. Others have been designed
for mo-gas (the Mazda 626 is an example, I'm told). Others are designed
for avgas, including one specifically for the RV-8.
> Kerosine cannot be ignighted with just electricity.
Not true... it just takes more electricity. And a different set of
conditions from avgas.
> I do not know of such a system for Avgas.
Thanks for sharing that. To find out more facts, you could head off to my
Web page <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/homebilt.htm> which has some
links regarding this and other homebuilding subjects, or to
<http://members.xoom.com/bunny2c.htm> which includes my experiences
building my fuel tanks, installing some capacitance senders in them, and
information about other capacitance-type senders that are available for
RVs.
Frank
(in a grumpy mood today)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan A. Gembusia" <Bryan(at)GGGConcepts.com> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
Ever short a wire?? I don't feel too comfortable about putting electric
currents through a flammable liquid which has a low enough flash point to
ignight with a spark. If your tank got low, the fumes would be more than
happy to ignight from a pinched wire or mis-functioning probe. Jet-A or
Kerosine cannot be ignighted without being compressed. This makes it much
safer to use a capacitence tube type fuel system.
Bryan Gembusia
> From: Finn Lassen [SMTP:finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 2:16 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options
>
>
> Please clarify. Applying a low 12 volts, and no sparks to a capacitive
> fuel sender
> is going to ignite the fuel, how??
>
> Finn
>
> "Bryan A. Gembusia" wrote:
>
>
> >
> > You do not want to put a electrical charge, via a capacitence tube, to
> > avgas. You will go BOOM. These types of fuel systems were designed for
> Jet
> > A. Kerosine cannot be ignighted with just electricity. I do not know
> of
> > such a system for Avgas.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
Frank;
Sorry to shoot you down on this, but since you were so pointed in your
>Try this at home: Put the ends
>of two wires connected to the + and - terminals of a battery into a puddle
>of petrol. Nothing happens unless you touch the wires together to cause a
>spark.
I don't think that is quite right. I've seen a demonstration of a beaker of
avgas, with electrodes in it, and they are sparking within the fuel, below
the surface. The fuel doesn't go boom. In fact nothing happened except I
had run like hell for the exit. The fire marshall putting on the demo was
making the point that with out the oxygen present, it would not go boom. He
did NOT do the spark thing with the electrodes in the beaker but placed
above the fuel level. Then it may well have gone boom.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
,
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
| Subject: | RV-4 for sale in Olympia, WA |
A friend of mine is selling his RV-4 and asked me to post this on the
List for him.
RV-4, built 1996, 95 Total Time engine and airframe, engine had
cermichrome overhaul. Panel is day/night VFR with 760 Comm Flip/Flop,
Narco Transponder with Mode C, has Loran. Aircraft is yellow with
blue striping. Asking $37,500 Call 360-866-8058
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | engine preservation |
Hello Listers:
I am concerned about the long term storage applied to my new Lycoming.
There are not any dehydrator plugs in the cylinders, just the spark
plugs. There is a tag on the engine stating the perservation is good
for 30 to 60 days. There does appear oil to have leaked from the
exhaust ports so perservation oil must have been poured into the
cylinders. Is this all there is to long term storage? It seems I
should have gotten more for the $200 I spent.
For those of you that have been here before me I would appreciate a
response to know if you received the same and if this is all there is.
Thanks,
Rick Caldwell RV-6:] Hanging the engine real soon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 37deg. Flareing tool in Denver |
Go see Bobby Greene or Mike Nevergall at VanAire
From: Mike Lauritsen <clevtool(at)tdsi.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 6:30 PM
Subject: RV-List: 37deg. Flareing tool in Denver
>
>Does anyone in the Denver area have a 37 degree flaring tool that they
would
>loan to a fellow RV builder for one flare? ( I would guess he could bring
>the tube to you )
>
>Drop me a note.
>Thanks,
>Mike Lauritsen
>Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
>2225 First St.
>Boone, IA 50036
>1-800-368-1822 orders
>1-515-432-6794 questions
>1-515-432-7804 FAX
>mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
>http://www.cleavelandtool.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis Autop |
ilot
At Oshkosh last year the STEC rep told me you could get the two axis from a
dealer for less then the retail. He said that it should cost closer to
$3200.
Bob
RV8#423
From: James E. Clark [mailto:James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis
Autopilot
You can get the single axis version of the STEC. I don't remember what I
paid, but for some reason I was thinking that $4500 included the altitude
hold option. I ***MAY*** be wrong. Getting older these days and the memory
is not as good as it used to be.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Just did a Dye Test |
Listers:
I just did a dye test on my nosegear. Photos of the results are on my website
at:
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er/dye.htm
There was an apparent crack, but I do not know how severe this appears.
Maybe someone who has done a similar test can provide wisdom? I plan on
sending a picture to Van's for their input.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
I have watched this thread with amusement. On the old wiper type senders,
there is unregulated 12 volts on the wire to the sender that goes into the
fuel tank. The wiper changes the resistance of that wire to ground by
by-passing the resistance. The gage measures the net resistance. High
resistance is empty. Low resistance is full. This all takes place inside the
fuel tank.
With the capacitance probe, there is very low voltage in the tank. There is
no connection from your 12 or 245 volt battery to the probe. The storage
capability of plates of the capacitance probe is measured OUTSIDE the tank.
No current flows like with the voltage drop of the oldstyle wiper sender.
These senders have been in use in gas powered planes for years. The
Bellanca Viking is one. I believe Cessna 210 use them as well as Mooneys.
From: Bryan A. Gembusia <Bryan(at)GGGConcepts.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 8:58 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options
>
>Ever short a wire?? I don't feel too comfortable about putting electric
>currents through a flammable liquid which has a low enough flash point to
>ignight with a spark. If your tank got low, the fumes would be more than
>happy to ignight from a pinched wire or mis-functioning probe. Jet-A or
>Kerosine cannot be ignighted without being compressed. This makes it much
>safer to use a capacitence tube type fuel system.
>
> Bryan Gembusia
>
>> From: Finn Lassen [SMTP:finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 2:16 AM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options
>>
>>
>> Please clarify. Applying a low 12 volts, and no sparks to a capacitive
>> fuel sender
>> is going to ignite the fuel, how??
>>
>> Finn
>>
>> "Bryan A. Gembusia" wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > You do not want to put a electrical charge, via a capacitence tube, to
>> > avgas. You will go BOOM. These types of fuel systems were designed
for
>> Jet
>> > A. Kerosine cannot be ignighted with just electricity. I do not know
>> of
>> > such a system for Avgas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Just did a Dye Test |
I looked at the picture. It looks like you didn't do a very good job of
cleaning before spraying the developer. Did you do the test more than just
once? If you get the same result a second time, then there may be a crack
just the the right of the collar.
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 9:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: Just did a Dye Test
>
>Listers:
>
>I just did a dye test on my nosegear. Photos of the results are on my
website
>at:
>
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er/dye.htm
>
>There was an apparent crack, but I do not know how severe this appears.
>Maybe someone who has done a similar test can provide wisdom? I plan on
>sending a picture to Van's for their input.
>
>
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>Waiting on finish kit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynafocal Mount |
>
>I am just about to start working on my 6A fuselage. In Frank Justice's
>manual he suggests getting the Dynafocal mount now to use it for alignment
>purposes.
>My question is:
>
>A) Has any one proceeded without the mount and if so were there any
>difficulties?
>
>B) According to Van's catalog, the Dynafocal mounts are 63.57 per pair any
>you need four pair. Does this seem correct??
>
>
>Thanks
>Rick Osgood
Rick,
Those are the Lord mounts (rubber bushings) you want the big welded gizmo
that connects the engine to the fuselage. One is enough.
LD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
>When you pull the prop through, do you hear two clicks or one? Since
>they
>are timed to fire at the same time, it might be hard to tell. You
>could
>remove an inspection plug so you could see the gear inside the mag.
>If the
>gear appears to stop then spin rapidly at the click of the impulse,
>then
>there is one on that mag.
>
A much easier way to check is to look and see if both mags have a impulse
spacer block. Any impulse mag requires a spacer that is approx. 3/4"
thick. This spaces the mag away from the engine allowing for the extra
depth of the impulse/drive gear assembly.
Any mag mounted on an engine that doesn't have the spacer, wont have an
impulse coupler.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Just did a Dye Test |
>Listers:
>
>I just did a dye test on my nosegear. Photos of the results are on my
>website
>at:
>
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er/dye.htm
>
>There was an apparent crack, but I do not know how severe this
>appears.
>Maybe someone who has done a similar test can provide wisdom? I plan
>on
>sending a picture to Van's for their input.
>
>
>
>
>Paul Besing
>
-
Paul,
Apparently there has been some confusion about cracks in RV-6A nose gear
legs.
If you haven't yet finished the airplane (meaning flown it), it is not
possible for you to have a cracked nose gear leg. At least not because
of the reasons / conditions described in the service bulletin.
Even if you were flying it is likely that you would have to accumulate
quite a number of hours.
To shed a little more light on the subject (and show how many different
factors need to be considered in this whole situation) I will pass along
the following... not guaranteed to be absolutely correct since I am only
indirectly involved in the nose gear evaluation.
Van's recently received a nose gear leg that a customer thought might be
cracked. It didn't have loads of hours on it and the airplane reportedly
had never suffered any hard abuse.
The leg was inspected and no crack was found, but it was very apparent
that the leg was bent. It was suggested to the customer that they check
their main gear legs and they were found to be bent also.
For what it's worth...
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finnlass(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
In that case Frank has a good point - fumes will ignite at a spark. The point is
to design the measuring circuit in such a way that a spark won't appear. At
40/1000" you need 1000 Volts for a spark to appear. At 12 Volts the distance has
to be as little as .5/1000".
Don't you have the same problem with the resistive fuel senders?
Finn
John Darby wrote:
>
> I don't think that is quite right. I've seen a demonstration of a beaker of
> avgas, with electrodes in it, and they are sparking within the fuel, below
> the surface. The fuel doesn't go boom. In fact nothing happened except I
> had run like hell for the exit. The fire marshall putting on the demo was
> making the point that with out the oxygen present, it would not go boom. He
> did NOT do the spark thing with the electrodes in the beaker but placed
> above the fuel level. Then it may well have gone boom.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
<< A further question on the ignition switch; if I am supposed to use the
jumper for the RH mag, what do I do with the terminal LR? >>
Von,
It sounds like you have a more common set up with a single impulse
mag. The LR terminal should be left blank for your installation.
Ryan Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dru Fisher" <dfaviation(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Leaking Carb. |
Get a new valve and seat from El Reno Aviation. You'll need a gasket kit,
too. They advertise in Trade-A-Plane, I don't have the number handy. I've
used them before and they're good people with a complete inventory of carb.
parts.
Dru Fisher
dfaviation(at)worldnet.att.net
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Leaking Carb.
>
>Sound like the float needle valve is leaking or the float is sticking.
>From: Melvin Barlow <Melvin.Barlow(at)worldnet.att.net>
>To: rv-list
>Date: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 9:52 AM
>Subject: RV-List: Leaking Carb.
>
>
>
>>
>>Hello All. I'm a recent resubscriber to the list after a couple of years
>>away. Too much mail to cope with. Now that I'm retired, maybe I'll have
>time
>>to read it all. Lots of good info here.
>>
>>I have a new problem with my 1988 RV 4. The Marvel Scheller Carb. is
>leaking
>>fuel out of the venturi when I pressurize the system with the boost pump
>>during preflight. I suspect this indicates it is time to replace the carb.
>>with a rebuilt unit. Old one has about 2600 Hrs. on it, close to 600 in
the
>>RV 4. I'm shopping prices now. Checked with a local parts supplier, have
an
>>E-mail in to Mattituck, and A.S.S. & Chief are on the list to check.
>>
>>Questions:
>>1. Does anyone have a different idea on the source/solution to the
problem?
>>2. Anyone have a recent experience (good or bad) with any of the sources I
>>mentioned above?
>>3. Any other sources I should consider?
>>Greatly appreciate any input, I'm getting a lot of good info from the list
>>already, Esp. re. Dry Tanks, Etc. Contributed today, BTW. My E-mail Addr.:
>>melbarlow(at)worldnet.att.net in case anyone wants to mail me privately.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Propeller Spacer |
Listers,
Also, if anyone is interested in the same version spacer, but 4" long
(for the old style long cowl) I have one for sale. Same price....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> From: Carroll Bird [SMTP:"catbird(at)taylortel.com"(at)taylortel.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 6:52 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Propeller Spacer
>
> <"catbird(at)taylortel.com"(at)taylortel.com>
>
> If anyone is planning on using a wood propeller with an O-360
> engine I have a 2 1/4" propeller extension, crush plate, and bolts I
> purchased from Performance Propellers. I paid a little over $320 for
> these items. I will sell for half price $160. This extension is made
> by
> Saber Engineering. I think it is the same one that Van's sells for
> $200
> just for the extension.
>
> The reason I am selling is that I changed horses in the middle
> of the stream so to speak, and went with the new Sensenich 72FM metal
> prop. I can't use the Saber extension with this prop.
>
> If interested e-mail me personally at .
>
> Carroll Bird
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid vs. STEC or Single Axis vs. Double Axis Autop |
ilot
Listers,
I have the Century I in my RV-6A. This unit is comparable to the now
available STEC single axis unit, and can easily be upgraded to a 2 axis
status with the STEC stand-alone altitude hold option (which is what I
am planning on doing..).
I too find the autopilot to be an asset when dittling with charts
while IFR. What convinced me I should have it was a good case of vertigo
after dark, in turbulent clag, after taking an amended clearance and
trying to figure out just where ATC was vectoring me. The vertigo was
caused by me turning my head a lot while looking at charts and still
trying to fly the aircraft. (I ended up "requesting" that ATC give me
the needed vectors instead, while I flew the plane and cleared my
head...) The installation of the wing leveler now makes this task easily
and safer to achieve.
The wing lever and Altitude hold functions also make long cross
country flights less stressful. While I can still fly the aircraft
without these aids ( 90% of my practice approaches are still flown
without these aids) their use allows me to fly long distances and arrive
at my destination more relaxed, and with enough energy to enjoy the rest
of the day.
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> From: Dan Wiesel [SMTP:dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 5:28 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double
> Axis Autopilot
>
>
>
> Can we get some more feed back on the single axis autopilot from other
> owners of Navaids. STEC' s are $4500 ++, but I dont want to spend
> $1300
> hundred on a Navaid if I dont use it.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
Finn;
I agree that FUMES will ignite with a spark. But it is my understanding
that the float type and the capacitant type do not Normally provide a spark.
And if they do and it is beneath the surface of the fuel, it will not
ignite.
My understanding is that both types are a measure of conductivity. One
using the varying resistance of a coil and the other due to a probe
affected by a fluid (fuel). Neither providing a spark.
Now if the wires to either should chaff, or in some way provide a spark
above the surface of the fuel where there are fumes of fuel and the O2 is
present, then away it goes. But do not both have that 'drawback'? The
advantage to me is that the capacitant type is normally considerably more
accurate with no more risk.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
Funny, I don't have any spacer blocks with my two impulse Slicks, but that
is on a Franklin. I don't remember any spacer blocks on my Cessna Skyhawk
with a Lycoming and it had one with impulse and one without, but then again
they were Slicks.
When I had Bendix mags on my Franklin I did have two spacers.
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com <smcdaniels(at)Juno.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>
>
>>When you pull the prop through, do you hear two clicks or one? Since
>>they
>>are timed to fire at the same time, it might be hard to tell. You
>>could
>>remove an inspection plug so you could see the gear inside the mag.
>>If the
>>gear appears to stop then spin rapidly at the click of the impulse,
>>then
>>there is one on that mag.
>>
>A much easier way to check is to look and see if both mags have a impulse
>spacer block. Any impulse mag requires a spacer that is approx. 3/4"
>thick. This spaces the mag away from the engine allowing for the extra
>depth of the impulse/drive gear assembly.
>Any mag mounted on an engine that doesn't have the spacer, wont have an
>impulse coupler.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | IT'S NOT OVER YET! |
Well guys and gals just a reminder that the RV-List fund raiser is NOT over
yet! I have noticed that we have some new subscribers so I would like to
take this opportunity to recap what has been going on for the past 10 days
or so.....
1) Matt Dralle (our fearless list provider) has added a bunch of new
hardware and software to make the RV-List run better and the archives more
accessible and efficient for all of us.
2) Matt does this without demanding that we pay a list membership fee like
other list providers do.
3) Matt doesn't have enough money left over to buy groceries! ;-)
4) We start a purely VOLUNTARY donation fund raiser to get Matt back what
he has spent. (And hopefully more for more improvements.)
5) We spend the next 3 or 4 weeks defining the word VOLUNTARY as:
"THIS MEANS YOU!"
6) After so much prodding you finally break down and send in a credit card
donation via the secured URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html
Or personal check to: Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94551
7) Now that you have done the right thing you feel so much better about
yourself that you actually DO have a nice day!
Thank you for you attention. You may delete this message after you have
made your donation. If you haven't done it yet then you may use this
message as your screen saver until you do! AL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel level sensors |
Listers
Has anyone installed the capacitive fuel level sensors? Any suggestions or
cavates?
Thanks
Larry McKee
lmckee(at)cnetech.com
Hanford, CA
RV 6A wings
Eschew obfuscation!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
> Ever short a wire?? I don't feel too comfortable about putting electric
> currents through a flammable liquid which has a low enough flash point to
> ignight (ignite) with a spark. If your tank got low, the fumes would be
more than
> happy to ignight (ignite) from a pinched wire or mis-functioning probe.
Jet-A or
> Kerosine (kerosene) cannot be ignighted without being compressed. This
makes it much
> safer to use a capacitence (capacitance) tube type fuel system.
>
> Bryan Gembusia
I'm not sure if the capacitance fuel system made by Skysport works the same
way, but on our Airbus A-300, A-310 systems, the fuel quantity computer sends
a very high impedance 5~7 khz signal out to the probes, with the fuel acting
as the dielectric. It compares the return signal to the supply signal and
measures the phase shift. This is how it measures the capacitance. Most probes
will measure around 50~75 pfd, depending on the length of the probe, when dry.
The processor then interpolates this measurement to calculate how much fuel is
in the tank. There is not enough energy in this signal to create a hot enough
spark to ignite the fuel if the wires were shorted together. If you follow
standard practices and properly route and clamp the wiring and probe, what is
it going to short on? How is the probe going to "mis-function"? Surely you
wouldn't just lay the wires in the tank without properly dressing them!
Now, it's my understanding that on the flight 800 747, they suspect that
possibly, some other high energy wire, might have chafed and shorted to the
wiring going to the probes in the center tank, providing enough energy for a
hot enough spark to ignite the fuel vapors in the tank. But in my opinion,
both the capacitance system and the standard fuel senders are perfectly safe
to use with Avgas and Mogas.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Flying with S/W senders and Isspro fuel gauges!
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Hintenlang" <dhinten(at)nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu> |
| Subject: | Just did a Dye Test |
I'll preface my remark with a qualifier that it's a bit hard to infer alot
from a photograph alone.
It looks like what you are seeing is probably residue, or likely a surface
imperfection or tooling mark as opposed to a crack. Unfortunately dye
penetrant tests delineate surface cracks well, but don't necessarily give
much information regarding the depth of the crack (experience users
exempted) and therefore can be somewhat vague, possibly requiring other NDT
techniques get more definitive interpretation.
I have an NDT lab here at the university with capabilities to do ultrasound,
eddy current, x-ray, etc, and would be willing to provide further
examinations of anyone's gear legs for free if you pick up the to and from
shipping charges. Any one that's interested can e-mail me privately at:
david-hintenlang(at)ufl.edu
Dave Hintenlang
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Besing
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 1998 10:10 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Just did a Dye Test
>
>
>
> Listers:
>
> I just did a dye test on my nosegear. Photos of the results are
> on my website
> at:
>
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er/dye.htm
There was an apparent crack, but I do not know how severe this appears.
Maybe someone who has done a similar test can provide wisdom? I plan on
sending a picture to Van's for their input.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
With the old style wiper resistance. the resistance coil is above in the
fumes. You are measuring conductivity.
The capacitance probe extends down into the fluid. It does NOT measure
conductivity. The electronics located outside the tank measure the
difference in capacitance which is the ability to store electrons. NO
current passes or can pass.
With the wiper resistance type tank sender, current MUST pass for the
ammeter (gas gage) to read. It is a very small unregulated 12 volt current
passing to ground through the variable resistor. When the tank is full,
more current passes. When the tank is empty less current passes. When the
wiper fails to make contact. the gage reads empty. If the wire breaks the
tank reads empty.
From: John Darby <johnd@our-town.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options
>
>Finn;
>
>I agree that FUMES will ignite with a spark. But it is my understanding
>that the float type and the capacitant type do not Normally provide a
spark.
>And if they do and it is beneath the surface of the fuel, it will not
>ignite.
>My understanding is that both types are a measure of conductivity. One
>using the varying resistance of a coil and the other due to a probe
>affected by a fluid (fuel). Neither providing a spark.
>
>Now if the wires to either should chaff, or in some way provide a spark
>above the surface of the fuel where there are fumes of fuel and the O2 is
>present, then away it goes. But do not both have that 'drawback'? The
>advantage to me is that the capacitant type is normally considerably more
>accurate with no more risk.
>
>John C Darby Jr.
>RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
>Stephenville TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ignition Switch Hook-up |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Since I am the one that started this ignition switch thing, I thought I
would pass on my conclusions, for those coming up behind. The standard
setup for an 0-360-A1A with the typical Slick Mags is only the left mag
has the impulse coupling, so you need the jumper on the right mag to
ground it out during start. There is a terminal on the back of the switch
labeled 'R' and another terminal right beside it (this one not marked on
mine). These are the two to jumper. Leave the LR unused, using only the L
for the 'P' lead to the left mag, in addition to the R for the right mag
'P' lead. ACS catalog has excellent diagram. I checked and yes, the
left magneto(or the one with impulse coupling) DOES have a spacer at its
base about 1/2" thick as Scott says.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Funny, I don't have any spacer blocks with my two impulse Slicks, but
>that
>is on a Franklin. I don't remember any spacer blocks on my Cessna
>Skyhawk
>with a Lycoming and it had one with impulse and one without, but then
>again
>they were Slicks.
> When I had Bendix mags on my Franklin I did have two spacers.
>From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com <smcdaniels(at)Juno.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 12:45 AM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Ignition Switch Hook-up
>
>
>>
>>
>>>When you pull the prop through, do you hear two clicks or one?
>Since
>>>they
>>>are timed to fire at the same time, it might be hard to tell. You
>>>could
>>>remove an inspection plug so you could see the gear inside the mag.
>>>If the
>>>gear appears to stop then spin rapidly at the click of the impulse,
>>>then
>>>there is one on that mag.
>>>
>>A much easier way to check is to look and see if both mags have a
>impulse
>>spacer block. Any impulse mag requires a spacer that is approx. 3/4"
>>thick. This spaces the mag away from the engine allowing for the
>extra
>>depth of the impulse/drive gear assembly.
>>Any mag mounted on an engine that doesn't have the spacer, wont have
>an
>>impulse coupler.
>>
>>
>>Scott McDaniels
>>These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
>>reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | RV-8 finishing kit video |
Well, they are finally here.
UPS delivered the RV-8 Finishing Kit Videos yesterday evening around
6:00pm. All the back orders were immediately packed and are now at the
post office. I know a lot of you have been waiting for these. I
appologize for the delay and want to thank you all for your patience.
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
http://www.rvbookstore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynafocal Mount |
>
>>B) According to Van's catalog, the Dynafocal mounts are 63.57 per pair any
>>you need four pair. Does this seem correct??
>>
>Those are the Lord mounts (rubber bushings) you want the big welded gizmo
>that connects the engine to the fuselage. One is enough.
>
>LD.
One pair is enough? Actually, you need four pairs of rubber bushings, at
$63.57 USD each pair or $254.28 total.
Rob (RV-6Q, mounting engine as soon as it arrives, bushings in hand).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
Having spent the past 20 years certifying electrical equipment worldwide for use
in potentially explosive enviroments, I can't help but add my two cents worth
on fuel tank circuits.
First, the majority of your petro-chemicals are all grouped into the same catagory.
Jet- A, Kero, Propane, Gasoline, AVgas, etc. all are considered to require
the same amount of energy to cause them to ignite. (This is considering perfect,
ideal conditions.)
The resistive gauge, as crude as they may seem, are very safe. That's because
there is always a minimum amount of resistance present in the loop which limits
the energy to any contacts within the tank. For test purposes, a failure is
considered and the amount of energy present is tested to determine if it will
ignite a specified explosive atmosphere. Certain components, such as a wire
wound resistor, are considered infailable.
The capacitive probe(s) on the market (I know of one for Gen Aviation) are certified.
If you ask you will find out that the probe is UL listed for use in a
Class I, Division 1, Group D hazardous location. (This is defined within the
National Electrical Code as a petro-chemical type gas/liguid environment that
is always presentl.) The last time I looked at one of these probes (some years
ago) there was little if any information provided to explain the proper installation
to be in compliance with the UL Listing applied to the probe.
Under No circumstance should you be placing anything in your fuel tank that is
not appropriately certified for use in that type of application...this includes
any type of wires. As far as Flight 800's wiring, my first impresion was that
runing wires through the tank was a big mistake. But I've yet to see sufficient
details on the installation to understand what was done.
I'll gladly discuss this topic further OFF LINE for those looking for additional
details.
Gary RV-6 20038 finishing N38GK reserved
kozinski(at)symbol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel level sensors |
I have capacitance senders in my RV-4 tanks. I have been much amused by the
recent thread on the subject. There is no danger. E-mail me off-list if
you want details, as mine is an unusual installation.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST mounting remote oil cooler
>Has anyone installed the capacitive fuel level sensors?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options |
Every time this message comes back up, I am appalled. "Kerosene cannot be
ignited without being compressed." The writer never used a kerosene lamp.
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Inverted Fuel Retrofit Options
>
>
>> Ever short a wire?? I don't feel too comfortable about putting electric
>> currents through a flammable liquid which has a low enough flash point
to
>> ignight (ignite) with a spark. If your tank got low, the fumes would be
>more than
>> happy to ignight (ignite) from a pinched wire or mis-functioning probe.
>Jet-A or
>> Kerosine (kerosene) cannot be ignighted without being compressed. This
>makes it much
>> safer to use a capacitence (capacitance) tube type fuel system.
>>
>> Bryan Gembusia
>
> I'm not sure if the capacitance fuel system made by Skysport works the
same
>way, but on our Airbus A-300, A-310 systems, the fuel quantity computer
sends
>a very high impedance 5~7 khz signal out to the probes, with the fuel
acting
>as the dielectric. It compares the return signal to the supply signal and
>measures the phase shift. This is how it measures the capacitance. Most
probes
>will measure around 50~75 pfd, depending on the length of the probe, when
dry.
>The processor then interpolates this measurement to calculate how much fuel
is
>in the tank. There is not enough energy in this signal to create a hot
enough
>spark to ignite the fuel if the wires were shorted together. If you follow
>standard practices and properly route and clamp the wiring and probe, what
is
>it going to short on? How is the probe going to "mis-function"? Surely you
>wouldn't just lay the wires in the tank without properly dressing them!
> Now, it's my understanding that on the flight 800 747, they suspect that
>possibly, some other high energy wire, might have chafed and shorted to the
>wiring going to the probes in the center tank, providing enough energy for
a
>hot enough spark to ignite the fuel vapors in the tank. But in my opinion,
>both the capacitance system and the standard fuel senders are perfectly
safe
>to use with Avgas and Mogas.
>
>Mark LaBoyteaux
>RV-6A N106RV
>Flying with S/W senders and Isspro fuel gauges!
>MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
> I am concerned about the long term storage applied to my new Lycoming.
> There are not any dehydrator plugs in the cylinders, just the spark
> plugs. There is a tag on the engine stating the perservation is good
> for 30 to 60 days. There does appear oil to have leaked from the
> exhaust ports so perservation oil must have been poured into the
> cylinders. Is this all there is to long term storage? It seems I
> should have gotten more for the $200 I spent.
>
> For those of you that have been here before me I would appreciate a
> response to know if you received the same and if this is all there is.
OUCH!
I posted some information on this a couple of times here before in the
hopes that it would save others the same mistake I made, but evidently
you missed it. Here it is again:
If you order an engine "drop-shipped" directly from Lycoming instead of
from Van's stock, and you expect to put it on your plane soon, you can
save yourself $200 by NOT specifying the "long term storage" option.
I ordered mine with this option because I thought it meant I'd get the
dessicant plugs and preservative oil. Turns out the dessicant plugs are
not included in any case and the preservative oil is in there either
way. The option is mainly just for a vacum sealed plastic bag around
the engine and expando-foam in the crate, which I promptly cut open and
threw away when I got it since I was ready to put it on the plane right
away. Dessicant plugs can be got from ACS for $2.50 ea.
I don't blame Vans for this (although I think it would be nice if they'd
add an explanation of what the option is in the catalog). I just made a
wrong assumption about what long-term storage was, and it cost me $200.
Hopefully this information will save someone else from making the same
mistake.
Note that ALL engines ordered from Van's stock DO have this option since
they can sit on the shelf a while if they go there first. So if you
order from stock you should expect to pay this in any case (says so in
the catalog).
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
As for what you else you should do for the period longer than 90 days,
I'm not sure if anything is really necessary as long as you keep the
ports stoppered up and it is in a relatively controlled environment
(i.e. a heated garage). But there are other options you may wish to
explore anyay. Others on this list have described filling it with oil,
turning it over every few months, etc., but that's not always practical
in situations like ours. It should be noted that Lycoming's warranty is
good if you activate it within 2 years of the time of shipment, and
there's nothing in the warranty that ties that to any extra preservation
measures on your part.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
After looking at some Lycoming parts prices (AN4 plain washer for 95 cents etc)
getting all that oil AND installation for only $200 seems in line.
hal
> Is this all there is to long term storage? It seems I
> should have gotten more for the $200 I spent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | First Flight Preparation |
Listers
Now that the -4 has it's airworthiness certificate I'm trying to figure
out What to do for the first flight.
The main thing I found in the archives is not to high speed taxi,
seems the the taildragger can get away from you in this situation.
What have you who have "been there and done that" done to perpare
for the big event?
I'm a little nervous about this. I don't want anyone getting hurt,
nor do I want 5 years and 2 months worth of work rolled up into
a ball.
Your input would be of great help.
Thanks
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wiper Style Fuel Sensors |
The voltage potential from the Isspro gauges is not 12 volts check it with a
volt meter it is 3 to 4 volts.
My fuel level display system looks at the fuel level sending units (wiper
style) and also keeps track of fuel used. The fuel gauge shows both the
corrected measured level as well as the calculated level based on measured
fuel used. My fuel computer has an input connected to the fuel selector
switch so it knows what tank the fuel is being used from.
Rob Hickman
RV4 N401RH (Flying before 1999)
IO-360 CS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
I always remove the pushrods for long term storage.
Prevents bernealing of the cam shaft due to pressure dis
placing the oil.
Stew RV4 co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick.Osgood(at)born.com |
Thanks to all for the replies.
Rick Osgood
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Dye Test Conclusion |
Well, It seems that I may have acted a little hasty regarding the cracked
leg. I did do the test twice, and achieved similar results. I even did it
a third time (yuck, this stuff is messy). It seems that there are metal
imperfections, which is not considered structurally defective. Also, Van's
said that only gears that have been flying are an issue. I just wanted to
be sure that mine was not one of the ones that had hairline cracks in it
before I installed it!
Below is the official response from Van's regarding my gear. I'm assuming
that this would apply to all non-flying gears out there.
We have no worrys about legs that have not been used.. one thing that can
give the false positive is if you have not polished off the leg to the
mirror glass condition... then do the test... Van's
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting On Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
I think the most helpful thing for me was to A: take some dual from an
experienced RV instructor, and B: work with an EAA flight advisor. The EAA
has provided FA's with excellent written material and checklists for that
memorable first flight. Good luck!
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)mci2000.com
http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>
>Listers
>Now that the -4 has it's airworthiness certificate I'm trying to figure
>out What to do for the first flight.
>The main thing I found in the archives is not to high speed taxi,
>seems the the taildragger can get away from you in this situation.
>What have you who have "been there and done that" done to perpare
>for the big event?
>I'm a little nervous about this. I don't want anyone getting hurt,
>nor do I want 5 years and 2 months worth of work rolled up into
>a ball.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
Have you spent some time in a taildragger getting your flying skills back in
order??? If not, DO IT! before attempting test flying your bird. Have you
flown in some else's RV4? If not DO IT even if it is an over night car ride.
Try and find a CFI that has an RV4 even if it is just to fly it from the
back seat.
How you checked with an EAA Flight ADVISOR??? This is another helpful
service to keep from balling it up.
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 12:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: First Flight Preparation
>
>Listers
>Now that the -4 has it's airworthiness certificate I'm trying to figure
>out What to do for the first flight.
>The main thing I found in the archives is not to high speed taxi,
>seems the the taildragger can get away from you in this situation.
>What have you who have "been there and done that" done to perpare
>for the big event?
>I'm a little nervous about this. I don't want anyone getting hurt,
>nor do I want 5 years and 2 months worth of work rolled up into
>a ball.
>Your input would be of great help.
>
>Thanks
>
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
>Tallahassee,FL.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
Steps before the first flight.
#1 Gets lots of taildragger time.
#2 Get a ride in the RV of the type that you are building
#3 Have a mechanic go over your plane from top to bottom
#4 Have a friend go over your plane from top to bottom
#5 There is a good publication, that the FAA puts out. Amateur Aircraft
Flight testing Handbook, Read it and understand it
#6 If you are the least bit apprehensive get someone else to do tht
first flight.
#7 Have fun!!!
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiper Style Fuel Sensors |
Then the other 8 to 9 volt drop is from the high resistance of the meter,
because your voltage input is at least 12 volts and the wiper is grounded
for the completion of the circuit. This makes it even safer as at 4 volts
DC, sparks don't jump very far.
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com <RobHickman(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 1:49 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wiper Style Fuel Sensors
>
>
>The voltage potential from the Isspro gauges is not 12 volts check it with
a
>volt meter it is 3 to 4 volts.
>
>My fuel level display system looks at the fuel level sending units (wiper
>style) and also keeps track of fuel used. The fuel gauge shows both the
>corrected measured level as well as the calculated level based on measured
>fuel used. My fuel computer has an input connected to the fuel selector
>switch so it knows what tank the fuel is being used from.
>
>Rob Hickman
>RV4 N401RH (Flying before 1999)
>IO-360 CS
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
What is "bernealing"?????
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: engine preservation
>
>I always remove the pushrods for long term storage.
>Prevents bernealing of the cam shaft due to pressure dis
>placing the oil.
>Stew RV4 co.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
<< Now that the -4 has it's airworthiness certificate I'm trying to figure
out What to do for the first flight.
The main thing I found in the archives is not to high speed taxi,
seems the the taildragger can get away from you in this situation.
What have you who have "been there and done that" done to perpare
for the big event?
I'm a little nervous about this. I don't want anyone getting hurt,
nor do I want 5 years and 2 months worth of work rolled up into
a ball.
Your input would be of great help.
Thanks
Craig Hiers >>
Get thee to an EAA Flight Advisor! This is a very good program when measured
against the win/loss ratio. If you don't feel like you should do the flight,
by all means get someone else to do it for you- no lister or anyone else will
think less of you. If you don't know this person, get references- I've heard
some really hair raising horror stories.
I went thru the EAA FA program before flying Mark Goldberg's RV-8 a few weeks
back- most helpful. Our local FA is also a very good guy, and covered all the
bases. I had one of the fellas from my shop man the radio, and read the EAA
supplied checklist while all I had to do was fly the plane and report results.
This may sound like an EAA advertisement, but the program would be good even
if the IRS ran it (as is, of course).
Check six!
Mark
HR2 301 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
<< What is "bernealing"????? >>
It's similiar to "Bernoulling"...ya know- flying! ;-)
Check six!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
In my opinion, you must only be prepared for things that may go
wrong. If nothing unexpected happens, it will be the most
uneventful "piece of cake" of your flying career.
Before I did my first flight I did a lot of sitting in the plane
touching things in the cockpit. I touched everything within reach
until I felt comfortable I could find them without looking at
them. I went through all types of problem scenarios in my mind
until I thought I would know what to do, no matter what problem
cropped up. I even made up my mind how far I would let a problem
go before I would bail out, if necessary. I tied the tail down
and ran the engine at all different speeds (not for long enough
to overheat) until I was satisfied it wouldn't die on climbout or
with quick throttle adjustments. I taxied around enough to get
the feel for the brakes, and slow enough to ground loop it
purposely so I could get the feel of the plane when I recovered.
Also, taxiing fast enough for the ailerons to rock the wings
helped get the feel for when some control would begin or stop. I
did taxi fast enough to lift off a few times, but wouldn't do it
again. Don't take off until you are ready to fly. When I did
actually fly it, I was expecting the engine to quit at any
moment, or pieces and parts to fall off the plane at any time.
Nothing at all happened. It was a great big piece of cake. It
was an extremely easy plane to fly, from lift off to touchdown.
You only have to be prepared for what might happen. Heart attack
crossed my mind a couple times, as my heart was really pumping.
Good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary kozinski <KOZINSKI(at)symbol.com> |
| Subject: | Gasoline ignition levels |
It actually takes a lot of spark to ignite a pertro-chemical, such as avgas, mogas
or kero. At 15 volts you need in excess of 5 amps of current. From another
perspective, a minimum of 200 micro Joules of energy is needed. Hot spots
in another source of ignition. The minimum auto ignition temperature of gas is
535F/280C. The surface area of the hot item needs to be considered. Roughly
speaking, a piece of solid 22 gauge wire less than inch in length, even though
its glowing red, will not ignite the gas. Another thing to keep in mind
is that within a gas tank there is very little air/gas mix. The "ideal" mix for
minimum ignition is approximately 5% gas vs 95% air. Gary RV-6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
Brinneling? I am amazed that it happens from pushrod pressures. How soon does
it happen?
Couldn't you just back off the adjustment screws for the open valves??
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> I always remove the pushrods for long term storage.
> Prevents bernealing of the cam shaft due to pressure dis
> placing the oil.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis Autopilot |
another reason for STEC over Navaid - latter is not to be used in IFR which
seems like it makes it useless.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: RV Builder Assistance |
Scott Brown wrote:
> Hi, my name is Scott Brown, owner of Florida RV-Ation. I custom build RV's for
> customers with a love for RV4's, RV6's, and RV8's at a very affordable price!
Is this legal???
I don't at all oppose the idea that doesn't matter who builds an airplane as
long as it passes an airworthy inspection. I do, however, worry that the whole
idea of experimental aviation might cancelled by the illegal work of a few. I
have heard that there are operators of experimental "home built" aircraft who
haven't a clue how to build an airplane as they never saw theirs till it was
complete.
So, does the builder actually build 51%?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald McKibben <gmckib(at)ra.msstate.edu> |
I'm having trouble getting the close-tolerance bolts in the spar holes,
especially the 3/8" ones, even after cleaning out with emery paper. Any
advice will be appreciated. Is it advisable to use 5/10000 undersize reamers?
Please to reply to me at gmckib(at)ra.msstate.edu. Thanks.
RV-6A, Getting ready to drill LG mounts.
Gerald McKibben
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walsh, John" <jwalsh1(at)unifi.com> |
> I'm having trouble getting the close-tolerance bolts in the spar holes,
> especially the 3/8" ones
>
My RV-4 pre-punched wing kit had the holes drilled 1/64 undersize.
You HAVE to ream them to have any hope of getting the close tolerance bolts
in the holes. I used a full size (3/8) reamer and got what I think are
really nice fits. You can certainly use an undersized reamer and if you are
still having trouble go to the full size. Remember, if you have to wack it
hard, it's too tight. If it drops in just from its own weight, it's too
loose. You are trying to achieve a fit that falls between these two
extremes.
One last thing. Ream these holes by HAND ONLY. I did a couple with
my cordless $200 drill and on the third one, the drill had a bearing failure
causing the reamer to wobble. I have to go to a 7/16 NAS bolt on that one
hole. You can not believe how mad I was after that !!! First for my
overpriced drill to sh*t the bed on me and second because I should never
have used it in the first place.
Good luck
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
>
> Listers
> Now that the -4 has it's airworthiness certificate I'm trying to figure
> out What to do for the first flight.
Craig,
You should download FAA Advisory Circular 90-89A, "Amateur-Built
Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook", available at:
ftp://ftp.fedworld.gov/pub/faa-oai/90-89a.pdf You will need Adobe
Acrobat Reader, available at:
http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html to read it. The
AC was prepared by the FAA and EAA, and has a lot of good info on
what to do before the first flight, and what to do, and how to do it,
on the first flight.
Other links relating to flight testing can be found on the Flight
Testing part of my RV Links page:
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rvlinks.html
Be careful, and good luck,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (wings)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
Hi Creg
There is some excellent advise in some of the previous postings. For what
it's worth this is how I would handle the first flight.
After satisfying myself that everything with the aircraft is ok get a long
time experienced A&E to do one last inspection.
Ask myself if I am ready. Am I taildragger qualified and current. Have I
got some recent time in a RV 4. Am I relaxed enough to handle a emergency.
If I have satisfied these requirements pick a day with good weather
conditions and no wind so I could land either way on the runway in case of
a problem.
With a new or overhauled engine you dont't have the opportunity to do any
ground handleing practice without the risk of glazing the cylinders.
I feel the greatest risk for any pilot flying a new type for the first time
is the unfamiliarity coupled with some kind of emergency. I know we all
want to fly our bird for the first time. But if we are uncomfortable there
is a lot to be said for getting someone you are comfortable with who is
willing and is flying the same type "in your case the RV 4" regularily to
do the first flight or so . This way you can clear all the snags if any and
do any adjusrments nessesary before you go for the first time. This way the
only thing on your mind will be flying the aircraft.
On my first flight with HAY I had to shut it down on the first take-off
because I was overcontroling with the rudder. I wasn't used to that kind of
sensitivity, had the tail wheel springs to tight.and most of my recent
tailwheel time was on a DC3. Three or four inches of rudder ei1ther way
didn't bother the old girl.
Please don't think I am telling you how to fly your aircraft. I am sure you
will make the right decision and in anycase you are ready to launch into
one of the greatest experiences of your life.
Good Luck
Eustace Bowhay C-GHAY 20383
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
Has anyone not off set the vertical stab 1/4 to 3/8" to port, if so what
happened in flight. thanks ahead.
Joe/fuselage
planejoe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Preserve part 2 |
Thanks to the listers who responded to my question. Randall Henderson
is correct - do not order the long term storage unless the engine will
not be hung for a long time. I was not on the list when I ordered the
engine and did not know this.
Fortunately, a mistake was made in my favor and my engine did not have
long term storage applied. Van's said it did when I first E- mailed
them about it. I wasn't convinced so I called Lycoming. The first
question was "Is it in a plastic bag?" It wasn't. Then the paper trail
proved that it wasn't applied. Lycoming told me to hang the engine (I
will next week) and fill it through the breather port full with clean
automotive motor oil. Also, remove the top plugs and fill the
cylinders. This will protect it for the 3 to 6 months before the plane
is ready.
I relayed the updated info to Van's and am getting a credit for my $200.
For those of you considering ordering a new engine, do not get long term
storage. Just fill with oil per Jim Matthews at Lycoming.
Rick Caldwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve Indicator, Part 2 |
After installation the LRI was flight tested and adjusted by trial and
error. Starting at the 50-degree "down" angle suggested, and then making a
wild-and-wooly guess at a second setting I think I hit it on the nose. Here
is what the thing is doing now:
1. At power off stall it just touches the "red" arc as the nose drops.
2. During take off run, the needle just gets above the red arc when the
airspeed indicator and the plane seems ready to fly.
3. During approach to final landing, when ASI shows about 70MPH TAS the LRI
is at the bottom of the green arc, indicating I still have a lot of lift
left above the 55-or-so MPH stall with partial flaps.
Overall Impression: I think the darn thing works! More and more I look at
it rather than the ASI to see where I am in regard to stall when doing slow
flight and heavy turns. If I learn more, I'll post it FYI.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Hand grip points entering the RV6A?) |
I posted this a week ago and got no response. Is there really no one
who has an opinion about this, one way or another?
This windshield fairing thread is interesting to me. I am wondering if
I need to re-think my plans for this area. I have traveled to fly-ins
in Van's planes and done time in their booth, and was convinved, after
seeing what the average flat-lander could do to a nice aluminum fairing,
that a good thick fiberglass fairing would be the way to go. I am
remembering in particular of the fairing on the RV-6T (now the RV-9),
which as I recall is .032 (or less) and which got easily bent by the
"gapers" climbing in and out. Yes I could use .040 like another lister
mentioned, but still I would think that fiberglass would be stronger
than an an equivalent thickness of aluminum for this application, be
less likely to get permanently deformed, and be easier to form to the
bubble. Not so? What do y'all think? Would you have to build the
fiberglass up too much to provide a reasonable amount of strength to
guard against the errant grabber? I'd just as soon not have to hover
like a mother hen over every person who gets into the plane.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: holes in spar |
writes:
>
>
>
>> I'm having trouble getting the close-tolerance bolts in the spar
>holes,
>> especially the 3/8" ones
>>
> My RV-4 pre-punched wing kit had the holes drilled 1/64
>undersize.
>You HAVE to ream them to have any hope of getting the close tolerance
>bolts
>in the holes.
-
This is not correct, and if you are having trouble installing the close
tolerance bolts please call Van's before doing anything to change the
size of the holes.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Just did a Dye Test |
To shed a little more light on the subject (and show how many different
factors need to be considered in this whole situation) I will pass along
the following... not guaranteed to be absolutely correct since I am only
indirectly involved in the nose gear evaluation.
Van's recently received a nose gear leg that a customer thought might be
cracked. It didn't have loads of hours on it and the airplane reportedly
had never suffered any hard abuse.
The leg was inspected and no crack was found, but it was very apparent
that the leg was bent. It was suggested to the customer that they check
their main gear legs and they were found to be bent also.
Need to make a correction of my post.
It turns out that the bent nose gear leg did have a crack in it after
all.
I had received the wrong information.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: First flight |
Many of these responses recommend time in type (RV-4). Wonderful if you can
get it (not always the case). Im always available for any of you -4 flyers
looking for 190 pounds of rear seat baggage. This recommendation also
doesnt account for the lack of rear seat rudder pedals/brakes/throttle. Are
the -4 and -6 similar enough that some time in a -6 (say with Mike Seager
for example) would be sufficient, or is it really necessary to have -4
stick time?
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>Ask myself if I am ready. Am I taildragger qualified and current. Have I
>got some recent time in a RV 4.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank Zeck <ndzk(at)mlgc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: holes in spar |
Gerald McKibben wrote:
> I'm having trouble getting the close-tolerance bolts in the spar holes,
> especially the 3/8" ones, even after cleaning out with emery paper. Any
> advice will be appreciated. Is it advisable to use 5/10000 undersize reamers?
If I am not mistaken, the process of manufacturing the threads on aircraft quality
bolts is different than general hardware quality bolts. Aircraft bolts have the
threads rolled into the shank of the bolt, whereas the standard hardware quality
bold has cut threads. When the aircraft bolts are rolled, there is a very slight
bulge where the threads end and the shank of the bold interface. What we did with
our bolts is to take a fine file and gently (repeat: gently) roll the bolt against
the file to ever so slightly smooth out the invisible bulge for about 1/8th of
an
inch of the shank just beyond where the rolled threads end. When you do this,
the
bolts will go in quite a bit easier. I did not micrometer measure the bulge and
I
am sure somebody will test this theory as this post makes the rounds.
Another thing that we did was to use "antisieze" lubricant inside the bolt holes
of the spar (applied there with a Q tip) and also on the shank of the bolt. This
material is available at any autoparts place. Made the installation of the wing
bolts very easy.
Also, when installing the bolts, do not rotate them with a wrench or socket as
you
tap them in. Do not use a wrench to rotate them if you try to take them out.
Seems like there is a galling of the aluminum and steel which binds the bolt in
Some have (mistakenly IMHO) used zinc chromate paint on the shank of the bolt
before tapping them to place. When that stuff hardens you have glued the bolt
into the spar.
Now, let me tell you guys and gals, I never expected to have my plane wrecked six
weeks after completion. Sh-t happens. Somebody nearly cut the right wing off
my
brand new RV4 (~60 hours) in a taxi accident. I had to remove the wing for
repairs. Can you imagine how hard it would be to remove the wing if the bolts
had
been glued in place with zinc chromate paint? With the anitsieze on them, we just
used a rivet gun to tap them right out. Nifty.
I think it is wise to plan for eventual maintenance. I my case, the advance
planning for eventual repairs paid off in spades.
So: 1) trim the bulge from the shank and 2) use antisieze on the bolts
so
you can get them in (and out) easier.
Frank Zeck, Lisbon, ND RV4 N2ZK Used to be flying. :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Hi all,
Due to the costs in time and money of putting a Chevy derviative engine in my
RV6a, I am going to go the Lycoming route. A junk yard Lycoming.
A fresh new engine from Van's is, relatively speaking, a bargain. The life
cycle cost of an engine is higher than the initial price, however. The main
item to add on is interest on money over time; the time value of money. Just
how much that is depends on how long you keep the engine and how much your
money costs you or how much you could "rent" it out for. It isn't too
difficult to get into a situation where the life cycle cost of a new O360 from
Van's is $40,000.
At first, I thought I would get a first run runout O360 with no prop strike or
other damage such as blow up. Lotsa luck!
I looked in TAP - not much. Plenty of O320's. But they cost as much to
overhaul, service etc as a O360.
I've called around and found some prospective mills but what do I do now? Are
there things to ask for? Do these junkyards and used sellers usually dicker?
Are there usually guarantees or do they go till you start it up?
Finally, any opinions on how much to pay?
I feel like a barefoot pilgrim here!
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
Craig Hiers wrote:
>
>
> Listers
> Now that the -4 has it's airworthiness certificate I'm trying to figure
> out What to do for the first flight.
> The main thing I found in the archives is not to high speed taxi,
> seems the the taildragger can get away from you in this situation.
> What have you who have "been there and done that" done to perpare
> for the big event?
> I'm a little nervous about this. I don't want anyone getting hurt,
> nor do I want 5 years and 2 months worth of work rolled up into
> a ball.
> Your input would be of great help.
>
> Thanks
>
> Craig Hiers
> RV-4 N143CH
> Tallahassee,FL.
>
Even if you can get some time in a -6 do it. If you fly a RV-6
from the right seat it simulates very well what it is like to fly -4.
Most RV-4 builders have their engine controls on the left side
so flying a -6 from the right and using left hand for throttle etc.
works very well. I have checked out several RV-4 pilots to be in my -6
and
it has worked well. Actually if you can fly the -6 and do ok you well
not have any problems in a -4 because they are easier to see out of
on the ground.
Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Scotch Bright polishing wheels |
Fellow listers;
I have Scotch Bright polishing wheels available at a great price. Just
what is needed when building a metal airplane.
Anyone that has polished with one knows how fast a smooth edge can be
obtained. All the filing is gone. I made an adapter and put them on a
1/2 HP motor shaft.
My wheels are in the original 3M boxes and are a full 12 inch diameter,
3 inches wide, and with a 5 inch bore. I am asking 30 dollars each plus
shipping.
Contact me off line if interested.
John
N721JK RV-4 280 hours
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: holes in spar |
A dumb question here...what about freezing the bolts before insertion?
Frank Zeck wrote:
>
> Gerald McKibben wrote:
>
> > I'm having trouble getting the close-tolerance bolts in the spar holes,
> > especially the 3/8" ones, even after cleaning out with emery paper. Any
> > advice will be appreciated. Is it advisable to use 5/10000 undersize reamers?
>
> If I am not mistaken, the process of manufacturing the threads on aircraft quality
> bolts is different than general hardware quality bolts. Aircraft bolts have
the
> threads rolled into the shank of the bolt, whereas the standard hardware quality
> bold has cut threads. When the aircraft bolts are rolled, there is a very slight
> bulge where the threads end and the shank of the bold interface. What we did
with
> our bolts is to take a fine file and gently (repeat: gently) roll the bolt against
> the file to ever so slightly smooth out the invisible bulge for about 1/8th of
an
> inch of the shank just beyond where the rolled threads end. When you do this,
the
> bolts will go in quite a bit easier. I did not micrometer measure the bulge
and I
> am sure somebody will test this theory as this post makes the rounds.
>
> Another thing that we did was to use "antisieze" lubricant inside the bolt holes
> of the spar (applied there with a Q tip) and also on the shank of the bolt.
This
> material is available at any autoparts place. Made the installation of the wing
> bolts very easy.
>
> Also, when installing the bolts, do not rotate them with a wrench or socket as
you
> tap them in. Do not use a wrench to rotate them if you try to take them out.
> Seems like there is a galling of the aluminum and steel which binds the bolt
in
>
> Some have (mistakenly IMHO) used zinc chromate paint on the shank of the bolt
> before tapping them to place. When that stuff hardens you have glued the bolt
> into the spar.
>
> Now, let me tell you guys and gals, I never expected to have my plane wrecked
six
> weeks after completion. Sh-t happens. Somebody nearly cut the right wing off
my
> brand new RV4 (~60 hours) in a taxi accident. I had to remove the wing for
> repairs. Can you imagine how hard it would be to remove the wing if the bolts
had
> been glued in place with zinc chromate paint? With the anitsieze on them, we
just
> used a rivet gun to tap them right out. Nifty.
>
> I think it is wise to plan for eventual maintenance. I my case, the advance
> planning for eventual repairs paid off in spades.
>
> So: 1) trim the bulge from the shank and 2) use antisieze on the bolts
so
> you can get them in (and out) easier.
>
> Frank Zeck, Lisbon, ND RV4 N2ZK Used to be flying. :(
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotch Bright polishing wheels |
Fellow listers,
I purchased six of these wheels from John some time ago and I want to tell
you that they are a bargain! If you have a place to set up a motor with one
(or two) of these wheels attached you will probably go back for more.
Highly recomended! AL
>
>Fellow listers;
>I have Scotch Bright polishing wheels available at a great price. Just
>what is needed when building a metal airplane.
>Anyone that has polished with one knows how fast a smooth edge can be
>obtained. All the filing is gone. I made an adapter and put them on a
>1/2 HP motor shaft.
>My wheels are in the original 3M boxes and are a full 12 inch diameter,
>3 inches wide, and with a 5 inch bore. I am asking 30 dollars each plus
>shipping.
>Contact me off line if interested.
>John
>N721JK RV-4 280 hours
>Ohio
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
Bernealing (sp?) is corrosion caused by pressure of
some sort displacing oil or grease leaving bare metal
to metal contact. This allows corrosion to take place.
Ever see wheel bearings that have sat without rotating
and the rollers have left corroded imprints in the races?
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
yes, you could back off adjustment screws but very few
LYC engines have ever had them. How long does it take?
Depends alot on type of lube and humidity.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
Call Bart Lalonde at Aero Sport Power. If he doesn't convince you that it
is worth buying one of his inexpensive engines, he just might sell you a
good core...cheap, too...he's not out to make lots of money off of us..he's
a real honest guy..
Paul Besing
>
>Hi all,
>
>Due to the costs in time and money of putting a Chevy derviative engine in my
>RV6a, I am going to go the Lycoming route. A junk yard Lycoming.
>
>A fresh new engine from Van's is, relatively speaking, a bargain. The life
>cycle cost of an engine is higher than the initial price, however. The main
>item to add on is interest on money over time; the time value of money. Just
>how much that is depends on how long you keep the engine and how much your
>money costs you or how much you could "rent" it out for. It isn't too
>difficult to get into a situation where the life cycle cost of a new O360 from
>Van's is $40,000.
>
>At first, I thought I would get a first run runout O360 with no prop strike or
>other damage such as blow up. Lotsa luck!
>
>I looked in TAP - not much. Plenty of O320's. But they cost as much to
>overhaul, service etc as a O360.
>
>I've called around and found some prospective mills but what do I do now? Are
>there things to ask for? Do these junkyards and used sellers usually dicker?
>Are there usually guarantees or do they go till you start it up?
>
>Finally, any opinions on how much to pay?
>
>I feel like a barefoot pilgrim here!
>
>
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Waiting on finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Unison electronic ignition |
Fellow Listers:
Has anyone had any practical experience with Unison's electronic ignition
system. I am curious as to it's benefit vs. the plain jane magneto system.
I am considering it for my O-360 which I hope to order from Aero Sport this
winter.
Doug
============
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: holes in spar |
>
> I'm having trouble getting the close-tolerance bolts in the spar holes,
> especially the 3/8" ones, even after cleaning out with emery paper. Any
> advice will be appreciated. Is it advisable to use 5/10000 undersize
reamers?
One cause of the above problem is that the spar parts are drilled unprimed.
Once the parts are primed, the additional thickness causes the spreader
bars to push the spar strips apart by about 4 primer thicknesses, which can
be significant. (I do not know if the pre-built spars are anodized prior
to drilling or not.) I sanded the ends of the spreader bars to remove the
primer, but still had to ream the holes. Clamp the stack together tightly
if you choose to ream.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
Hook up with Mike Seager and get some dual.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Melvin Barlow" <Melvin.Barlow(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
Hi, Craig. Congratulations on getting to that big milestone. You've already
gotten some great advise. Here's what I did ten years ago:
Since the Flight advisor program didn't exist, I asked a personal friend who
was a CFI and had lots of experience in homebuilts to help me get up to
speed and also to decide whether I should attempt the first flight myself or
let him do it for me. I'm happy to say, that he decided that there was no
reason for me not to do it. I had plenty of taildragger experience, so this
was not an issue for me. If you don't, that should be a first priority. I
also had gotten some back seat time in another RV 4, including low
approaches, which helped me get used to how fast things happen, Etc.
We went out in his taildragger (homebuilt Sirocco) with me in the back seat
for some landings and airwork. This aircraft was way more demanding to fly
than the RV 4 and it took some time to get comfortable with it.
Once I was OK with that, we talked about the plan for my first flight in the
RV. Including all the "what ifs" - where to land off airport if necessary,
Etc. Etc. And laid out a complete plan for the first flight. Basically, I
would take the airplane out on the runway and make a couple of runs up to
near liftoff speed and note the ASI. As you indicated, we felt this was the
most hazardous part, and we made sure the airplane was ready to fly. Fueled,
preflighted, quadruple checked, Etc. If anything went astray, I had the
mindset to take off and run the flight as planned.
The plan was to take off and climb out at a reasonable airspeed (say at
least 2X lift off speed?) to pattern altitude in the pattern. Check the
engine instruments and control forces to make the go-nogo decision for
continuation. If "go", I planned to climb to 3000 AGL staying over the
airport. This would require some climbing turns, which were to be kept very
shallow in bank and pitch. Next, I would slow the airplane down in level
flight and get comfortable with it. When ready, I planned to slow the
airplane down to near stall (not full stall) and note the ASI. Whole purpose
being to memorize the indicate airspeed with the airplane near stall in the
landing configuration. Adding 30% to that airspeed gave me the indicated
airspeed for flying the pattern. Doing it this way, I would know what the
ASI indicated near stall, whether that was an accurate indication or not
would be determined in a later flight. Once that was accomplished, it was
time to land.
We picked a calm afternoon when traffic at our uncontrolled field was light.
A few people were on hand, but not a crowd. We ran the flight as planned,
and I'm happy to report that almost everything went fine. Only thing that
didn't was the radio didn't work. Since that had nothing to do with flying
the airplane, I just concentrated on executing the plan. Hope this helps,
good luck and have fun!
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 6:56 PM
Subject: RV-List: First Flight Preparation
>
>Listers
>Now that the -4 has it's airworthiness certificate I'm trying to figure
>out What to do for the first flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Has anyone not off set the vertical stab 1/4 to 3/8" to port, if so what
happened in flight. >>
No offset needed at all. No need for adjustable rudder trim either. Mine
flies straight as an arrow at all speeds and power settings with a small trim
wedge (5"H x 1.5"W x .25"T) attached about half way up on rudder left side.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hand grip points entering the RV6A slider |
<< This windshield fairing thread is interesting to me...a good thick
fiberglass fairing would be the way to go. I could use .040 like another
lister
mentioned, but still I would think that fiberglass would be stronger
than an equivalent thickness of aluminum for this application, be
less likely to get permanently deformed, and be easier to form to the
bubble. Not so? What do y'all think? Would you have to build the
fiberglass up too much to provide a reasonable amount of strength to
guard against the errant grabber?>>
Randall-
I went the fiberglass and vinylester route. It is, IMO, a lot nicer
appearance than even the best aluminum strip implementation. Mine is about 5
layers (.060") at the thickest part and progressively tapers down over the
last 1" to about .012" as it reaches the Plexiglas. It is very robust, but I
still tell passengers to pull themselves out using the center tube (cabane?).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | Your List Admin Gets YAK-18 Ride! |
Hi Listers,
In the spirit of the current List Support Fund Raiser, the RV-List's own
Brian Lloyd wrote me and asked it I would take lunch and a ride in his
YAK-18 in trade for his Contribution. Never one to turn down a thrilling
experience, of course I accepted! I took along my digital camera and
documented the afternoon and I have created a cool web page detailing
the day's events. I want to once again sincerely thank Brian Lloyd for
a wonderful experience.
Enjoy the new web page!
http://www.matronics.com/yak18
Matt Dralle
RV, Kolb, and Zenith List Administrator
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
All O-235 and O-290 have adjustment screws.
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com <RVer273sb(at)aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: engine preservation
>
>yes, you could back off adjustment screws but very few
>LYC engines have ever had them. How long does it take?
>Depends alot on type of lube and humidity.
>Stew RV4 Co.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Unison electronic ignition |
>
>Fellow Listers:
>
>Has anyone had any practical experience with Unison's electronic
>ignition
>system. I am curious as to it's benefit vs. the plain jane magneto
>system.
>I am considering it for my O-360 which I hope to order from Aero Sport
>this
>winter.
>
>
-
This system is installed on the blue RV-6A prototype at Van's.
I have never flown an airplane that always starts so well as this one
does (regardless of the conditions).
>From what I have seen flying this airplane (and I'm sure it is the same
with other electronic ignition systems) the biggest measurable
performance benefit comes when flying at high altitudes (using at least
11,500 or 12,500).
At these altitudes and above the manifold pressure is reduced enough that
the timing is beginning to be advanced a significant amount beyond the
standard 25 deg. and you are able to lean aggressively which produces a
very measurable reduction in fuel consumption.
When flying to copperstate this year (yours truly in the RV-8A and
engineer Ken Krueger in the RV-6A), as long as we flew at high altitudes
Ken in the 6A always burned .5 to .6 GPH less than I was able to get the
Fuel injected IO-360 in the RV-8A to burn, even though to run at the same
pace as the RV-6A I was at a much reduced power / economy power setting
of about 18 inches and 2300 RPM.
He was typically burning about 7.4 GPH and I was burning about 8.0 GPH in
the RV-8A. This was at a TAS of 185 MPH.
The things I like about the Laser system are the back up magnetos in case
of electrical system failure, and no need for independent electrical
systems to have electronic ign. on both sets of plugs.
Things I don't like about it... The cost. Also I would prefer having
some type of indicator showing what the current timing advance is.
BTW the system on the blue RV-6A prototype now has over 600 hours on it
and it has never had a single problem.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eilene VanGrunsven <100556.2660(at)compuserve.com> |
Listers: Concerning the thread about rudder trim or vertical fin offset;
Bill Benedict tried to convience us to offset the fin 1/2 inch. Somewhere
we read that 1/4 inch was the preferred setting. We compromised at 3/8
inch offset on the vert. fin. Our engine is an 0-360 with C/S. We hit it
lucky, no wedge or other add-on was needed on the rudder itself. The plane
flew the same before and after the gear leg fairings were installed. Good
luck!
Stan Van G.
RV-6A
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Preparation |
Craig,
Looks like you have already had some excellent advice. If youre not
aprehensive then thier is something wrong with you. Even the most calm and
cool person will get some serious butterflies on a day like this.
One thing I took into consideration is that I knew the airplane inside and
out, I designed the panel around myself and knew where every instrument and
every switch was. I knew that I could operate the fuel lever in desired
position without looking. To make a long story short I was current in a tail
dragger had remained current durring the building and had ridden in the back
seat of a 4 so I knew what to expect at least as far as handling was
concerned. For these reasons I considered myself the most qualified person to
do the first flight.
Please dont get me wrong, if your not comfortable doing the first flight by
all means let some one who you deam qualified do it for you. Your going to
enjoy the airplane just as much no matter what you decide.
Congradulations on your accomplishment and good luck to you!
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | engine preservation |
If you mean Brinnelling. This is usually related to transport damage.
You may have heard of a Brinnel Hardness Test, this consists of
driving a calibrated hardened steel ball into the work piece. Lose the
calibrated part and use a ball race instead and bounce the equipment
on rough road and you have Brinnelling. This is why 10% of new
electric motors (equipped with ball or roller bearings) are scrapped
or rebuilt before use. If the equipment is rotating at the time the
wear is evened out so this is rarely seen in operating equipment.
It is a close relative of fretting.
What you have described is crevasse corrosion where corrosion is
accelerated in enclosed areas.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: engine preservation
Date: 04-11-98 22:07
Bernealing (sp?) is corrosion caused by pressure of
some sort displacing oil or grease leaving bare metal
to metal contact. This allows corrosion to take place.
Ever see wheel bearings that have sat without rotating
and the rollers have left corroded imprints in the races?
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis Autop |
ilot
Hal,
I not certain that there is a requirement for an autopilot to be
certified for IFR use when used in an experimental aircraft.... Anybody out
there know????
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> From: halk(at)sybase.com [SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 5:12 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid vs. STEC or Single Avix vs. Double Axis
> Autopilot
>
>
> another reason for STEC over Navaid - latter is not to be used in IFR
> which
> seems like it makes it useless.
>
>
> halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | RV Builder Assistance |
Hal,
this is not only legal, but done all over the country. The issue I
think you are addressing, is the ability of the final owner to obtain
the Repairman's Certificate. That requires that he/she build 51% of the
plane. The fact that Scott I building and then selling finished kits is
no different than you or I selling our already finished flying
aircraft's.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> From: halk(at)sybase.com [SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 5:22 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Builder Assistance
>
>
> Scott Brown wrote:
>
> > Hi, my name is Scott Brown, owner of Florida RV-Ation. I custom
> build RV's for
> > customers with a love for RV4's, RV6's, and RV8's at a very
> affordable price!
>
> Is this legal???
>
> I don't at all oppose the idea that doesn't matter who builds an
> airplane as
> long as it passes an airworthy inspection. I do, however, worry that
> the whole
> idea of experimental aviation might cancelled by the illegal work of a
> few. I
> have heard that there are operators of experimental "home built"
> aircraft who
> haven't a clue how to build an airplane as they never saw theirs till
> it was
> complete.
>
> So, does the builder actually build 51%?
>
> hal
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Builder Assistance |
I don't want to stir a hornet's nest. I think there is a difference in
intent that the FAA on occasion has jumped on. To build a kit up to a
flying plane even on speculation and then sell is different than having some
one provide money to build and take delivery upon completion. I know it is a
"Clinton" definition but that it the way lawyers and the FAA see the
situation.
I was a little surprise to see the offer so open. Usually this happens more
by word of mouth so there aren't any records to "hang" the builder.
After the FAA steps in and prosecutes, does the money provider have a plane
he can license and fly if it is finished?
How does a plane like this get licensed. Does the "new" owner do it? or the
builder. Do they have the FAA do it or do they hire a DAR?
From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Date: Thursday, November 05, 1998 7:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Builder Assistance
>
>Hal,
>
> this is not only legal, but done all over the country. The issue I
>think you are addressing, is the ability of the final owner to obtain
>the Repairman's Certificate. That requires that he/she build 51% of the
>plane. The fact that Scott I building and then selling finished kits is
>no different than you or I selling our already finished flying
>aircraft's.....
>
>Fred Stucklen
>N925RV RV-6A
>E. Windsor, Ct
>
>
>> From: halk(at)sybase.com [SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 1998 5:22 PM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Builder Assistance
>>
>>
>> Scott Brown wrote:
>>
>> > Hi, my name is Scott Brown, owner of Florida RV-Ation. I custom
>> build RV's for
>> > customers with a love for RV4's, RV6's, and RV8's at a very
>> affordable price!
>>
>> Is this legal???
>>
>> I don't at all oppose the idea that doesn't matter who builds an
>> airplane as
>> long as it passes an airworthy inspection. I do, however, worry that
>> the whole
>> idea of experimental aviation might cancelled by the illegal work of a
>> few. I
>> have heard that there are operators of experimental "home built"
>> aircraft who
>> haven't a clue how to build an airplane as they never saw theirs till
>> it was
>> complete.
>>
>> So, does the builder actually build 51%?
>>
>> hal
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | RV Builder Assistance |
Fred,
I think there is still a fine line that some are crossing in building kits
and selling them. If they are building a kit for an owner they are on the
hairy edge and for now these planes are being looked at as "custom built".
If they are building kits for no particular owner, they have crossed over
the line and could end up in big trouble.
Builder assistance is a lot different than building the whole thing for
someone who never touches a tool.
Scott's walking on the right side of the line....for now. I've heard that
the FAA is starting to take a dim view of this type operation and could
clamp down... HARD! I keep reading the rules to remind myself that the main
purpose we are allowed to fly our "non certified" planes is for OUR OWN
instruction and recreation.
Anyway....Happy building!!!!
Bob
RV8 #423 STILL working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLPalinkas(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hand grip points entering the RV6A slider |
<< This windshield fairing thread is interesting to me...a good thick
fiberglass fairing would be the way to go. I could use .040 like another
lister
mentioned, but still I would think that fiberglass would be stronger
than an equivalent thickness of aluminum for this application, be
less likely to get permanently deformed, and be easier to form to the
bubble. Not so? What do y'all think? Would you have to build the
fiberglass up too much to provide a reasonable amount of strength to
guard against the errant grabber?>>
Randall-
I saw a good idea at Oshkosh. A builder had welded U handles (like grab
handles on my TCraft) to the rollbar of the sliding canopy. If these do not
interfere with headroom or are mounted where they could cause injury in a
crash, I think it would be an excellent idea. I may ever have a picture of it
if you want to contact me offline.
P.S. Just received a new 0-360 engine drop shipped via Fedex from Lycoming. It
included some very nice forklift holes thru the lower portion of the box. I am
in the process of checking for engine damage. I believe the long term storage
packing plastic has been compromised.
Gary Palinkas
Parma, Ohio
RV-6 (waiting for QB to arrive)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: holes in spar |
>A dumb question here...what about freezing the bolts before insertion?
>
The following is a repost of an article that I posted a little over a year
ago. I believe that it is appropriate to this thread:
1) Install the wings and temporarily pin the center splice plate with
hardware store 3/8 bolts, a bolt in every other hole. Grind one bolt to a
point and use it as a drift pin. The hardware store 3/8 bolts are a little
smaller than the close tolerance bolts Van's supplies. Make sure you don't
have any paint in the holes in the splice plate.
2) Leave the temp splice plate bolts in for now and install the AN3 & AN4
bolts throughout the rest of the center section. I started at the top, next
to a splice plate and worked outboard, then down at the fuse side, then
inboard. For this, drift pins (AN 3 & AN 4 bolts ground to a point) helps.
Some bolts just don't want to go in. Tap a drift pin in next to the
offending hole, the offending bolt should slide right in. On the bolts,
BoeLube was applied to the threads and a silicon spray lubricant applied to
the shank. Leave all nuts off for now. Some bolts will require a hammer to
tap them in. Just don't go crazy with it. The more bolts you install, the
easier it gets.
3) Now for those close tolerance bolts. Get yourself a small block of dry
ice and freeze those bolts prior to installing. One at a time, remove the
temporary hardware store bolts and spray a shot of silicon lubricant in each
hole. Install a frozen close tolerance bolt, work very fast as they warm up
quite rapidly. I did have to use a hammer to drive the bolts in, but they
did go in without much trouble. I installed the four outboard 1/4" close
bolts first. That set the alignment for the remaining 3/8 inboard bolts.
4) After all bolts are in, install the nuts, using proper torque. Before I
get flamed with dry torque vs. wet torque, if your concerned about it, clean
all exposed threads first. Remember the bolts were installed in lubricated
holes.
5) Van's shorts you on the quantity of 3/8" washers. I found that I
typically needed one washer under the head of the bolt and two under each
nut. I'm writing this as my washers are being sent second day from Wicks.
6) I envy those building a -6. The nuts are almost impossible to install
on a few of the bolts in the main gear mounts on a -6A. With serious
contortions and patience, all can be installed.
7) All my bolt heads face aft. The bolt heads in the main gear mounts must
face aft, so I carried this convention throughout.
8) The dry ice helped a lot. Just work fast to get the bolts driven prior
to them heating up. I didn't need to hold the heads of the close tolerance
bolts when torquing the nuts. The fit was that tight !!!!
9) Take your time. Start to finish, it took me about 8 hours to mount the
wings.
10) The RV looks real good sitting in the hanger, painted, with the wings
and tail on :))
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying (waiting on nose gear)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Scott Brown of Florida RV-Ation |
Dear Listers:
Saw something recently about Scott Brown of Florida RV-Ation who builds
RV-4's, -6's, and -8's for people. Where does he live. Anyone got his e-mail
address and phone number? Thanks, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scott Brown of Florida RV-Ation |
<< Saw something recently about Scott Brown of Florida RV-Ation who builds
RV-4's, -6's, and -8's for people. Where does he live. Anyone got his e-mail
address and phone number? Thanks, Bill >>
Scott is doing some sub work for me. Contact him at: 561-748-2429 or email at
flarv8n(at)aol.com
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | AB320FLYER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
Stew,
My engine is on an engine stand, so I can spin the whole engine 360 degrees
every month. After getting the cam wet, would rotating the engine internally
be another option for defeating this bernealing(sp?) problem?
Joel RV-8 CO
>Bernealing (sp?) is corrosion caused by pressure of
>some sort displacing oil or grease leaving bare metal
>to metal contact. This allows corrosion to take place.
>Ever see wheel bearings that have sat without rotating
>and the rollers have left corroded imprints in the races?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Builder Assistance |
Fred,
I think the real issue is whether the resulting aircraft can be certified.
The building and buying is legal but the FAA could refuse to certify it as
"Experimental-Amateur Built" if they are not convinced it was built for
"educational or recreational" purposes. If they refuse there could be a
real problem finding another category to certify it in. If they used
"Experimental-Exibition", for instance, the owner would have usage
restrictions.
We really need a regulatory change to sanction "custom-builts" but I can't
imagine the pols seeing any benefit to it, only problems.
Regards,
Greg Young
RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy
>
>
> Hal,
>
> this is not only legal, but done all over the country. The issue I
> think you are addressing, is the ability of the final owner to obtain
> the Repairman's Certificate. That requires that he/she build 51% of the
> plane. The fact that Scott I building and then selling finished kits is
> no different than you or I selling our already finished flying
> aircraft's.....
>
> >
> > Scott Brown wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, my name is Scott Brown, owner of Florida RV-Ation. I custom
> > build RV's for
> > > customers with a love for RV4's, RV6's, and RV8's at a very
> > affordable price!
> >
> > Is this legal???
> >
> > I don't at all oppose the idea that doesn't matter who builds an
> > airplane as
> > long as it passes an airworthy inspection. I do, however, worry that
> > the whole
> > idea of experimental aviation might cancelled by the illegal work of a
> > few. I
> > have heard that there are operators of experimental "home built"
> > aircraft who
> > haven't a clue how to build an airplane as they never saw theirs till
> > it was
> > complete.
> >
> > So, does the builder actually build 51%?
> >
> > hal
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | RV Builder Assistance |
Bob,
Agree that, if the kits are being custom built for a specific owner, and
that owner applies for the repairman's certificate, then it is illegal. If I
build, register an aircraft, anybody can buy it. If I build and I don't
register it, then somebody else buys it, the FAA will look at the process
closely. I believe that hen new owner can still get it registered in hi
name, but the FAA will require that the builder be specified. (The FAA is
definitely putting more pressure on custom builders in this area.....)
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> From: DiMeo, Robert [SMTP:Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:11 AM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Builder Assistance
>
>
>
>
>
> Fred,
>
> I think there is still a fine line that some are crossing in building
> kits
> and selling them. If they are building a kit for an owner they are on the
> hairy edge and for now these planes are being looked at as "custom built".
> If they are building kits for no particular owner, they have crossed over
> the line and could end up in big trouble.
> Builder assistance is a lot different than building the whole thing for
> someone who never touches a tool.
> Scott's walking on the right side of the line....for now. I've heard that
> the FAA is starting to take a dim view of this type operation and could
> clamp down... HARD! I keep reading the rules to remind myself that the
> main
> purpose we are allowed to fly our "non certified" planes is for OUR OWN
> instruction and recreation.
>
> Anyway....Happy building!!!!
>
>
> Bob
> RV8 #423 STILL working on wings
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bell, Bruce B." <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
Have any RV-4 Builders installed the Gretz Aero cable mounted electric MAC
Servo elevator trim kit for the RV-4? I bought one at Burlington and would
like to hear from someone who has. Thanks!
Please email me at rv4bell(at)door.net.
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: building tip |
Hi Builders:
I got this from a Pulsar builder and thought I would pass it on.
Jim Rose
<| Date: | Nov 05, 1998 |
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hand grip points entering |
the RV6A?)
I have seen damage to this fiberglass fairing near the sliding rail done by
someone not being agile enough and kicking it in. I would like to find a
way to stiffen/reinforce this area when I come to it.At 05:02 PM 11/4/98
-0800, you wrote:
>
>I posted this a week ago and got no response. Is there really no one
>who has an opinion about this, one way or another?
>
>
>This windshield fairing thread is interesting to me. I am wondering if
>I need to re-think my plans for this area. I have traveled to fly-ins
>in Van's planes and done time in their booth, and was convinved, after
>seeing what the average flat-lander could do to a nice aluminum fairing,
>that a good thick fiberglass fairing would be the way to go. I am
>remembering in particular of the fairing on the RV-6T (now the RV-9),
>which as I recall is .032 (or less) and which got easily bent by the
>"gapers" climbing in and out. Yes I could use .040 like another lister
>mentioned, but still I would think that fiberglass would be stronger
>than an an equivalent thickness of aluminum for this application, be
>less likely to get permanently deformed, and be easier to form to the
>bubble. Not so? What do y'all think? Would you have to build the
>fiberglass up too much to provide a reasonable amount of strength to
>guard against the errant grabber? I'd just as soon not have to hover
>like a mother hen over every person who gets into the plane.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
>Portland, OR
>http://www.edt.com/homewing
>randall(at)edt.com
>
>
>
>
>
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | RV Builder Assistance |
Greg,
Agree that there legally isn't an FAA category for "Custom Built",
but then again there's not any "legal" way to get an experimental
inspected if you haven't built it yourself (i.e. there is no provision
in the FAR's for an IA to do a conditional inspection...). These are
"Grey" areas in the FAR's that are being interrupted differently by
different FAA area offices. My read of our local office is that they are
concerned about planes being custom built for an owner, then the owner
applying and getting the repairman's certificate. I haven't seen any
local problems selling a finished, unregistered aircraft to an
individual and him registering the plane, as long as he's up-front with
the FAA about who built it, and the builders name is in the registration
paperwork.
> From: Greg Young [SMTP:gyoung@cs-sol.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 11:20 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV Builder Assistance
>
>
> Fred,
> I think the real issue is whether the resulting aircraft can be
> certified.
> The building and buying is legal but the FAA could refuse to certify
> it as
> "Experimental-Amateur Built" if they are not convinced it was built
> for
> "educational or recreational" purposes. If they refuse there could be
> a
> real problem finding another category to certify it in. If they used
> "Experimental-Exibition", for instance, the owner would have usage
> restrictions.
>
> We really need a regulatory change to sanction "custom-builts" but I
> can't
> imagine the pols seeing any benefit to it, only problems.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
> RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Movement |
Does any one know/remember if there is any specific minimum up angle and
down angle that needs to be achieved for the elevator deflections. I recall
the ailerons were called out, the flaps were not and I haven't seen
anything for the elevators, and for that matter for the rudder.
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - controls/empennage mounting
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Elevator Movement |
> Does any one know/remember if there is any specific minimum up angle and
> down angle that needs to be achieved for the elevator deflections. I
recall
> the ailerons were called out, the flaps were not and I haven't seen
> anything for the elevators, and for that matter for the rudder.
> Dan Wiesel
> RV6a QB - controls/empennage mounting
There's a table towards the back the build manual - I think in the rigging
& flight testing section.
________________________________________________________________________________
Elevator up: 25 deg min, 30 max - mine is at 27
Elevator down: 20 deg min, 25 max - mine is at 22
Rudder: 30 deg min, 35 max - mine is 31 each side
Chris Good
West Bend, WI
6A-QB looking for an engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com (Shelby Smith) |
| Subject: | Re: engine preservation |
>
>Stew,
>My engine is on an engine stand, so I can spin the whole engine 360 degrees
>every month. After getting the cam wet, would rotating the engine internally
>be another option for defeating this bernealing(sp?) problem?
>
>Joel RV-8 CO
My engine is on an engine stand also and I have it as full of oil as
possible - filled through the dipstick(20+ qts.). I am still concerned
about the area in the accessory case(now the highest point). Do you see any
problem putting and filling the engine up through the vent inlet - this
would fill the accessory area.
Shelby in Nashville
IO-360 on hold.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mixture Attach-RV-8 |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
I have one of Vans 'throttle-mixture attach brackets'. I have the
throttle installed, but is this bracket also supposed to support the
mixture cable? If it is, how does it work? If it doesn't, then what is
the recommended way to support the mixture cable at the carb? I am using
the standard Vans cables for the RV-8 mixture as in the catalog. Have an
0-360.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | F-622 (Baggage Compartment Rib) and F-650 (Rear Baggage Site |
Plate) Allignment Problem for RV-6/6A
Listers, Van's manual states to alligen the middle J-channel and the rear
end of F-622. The front end of F-622 is, per plan, 10" below the main
longeron. This fixes the position of F-622. If I do this, the pre-bend
flanges of F-650 do not match either at bulkhead F-606 or at F-622. The
problem is that F-650 has the wrong angle on the corner where the two
pre-bend flanges meet. Apparently I have the following options:
A) Lower (in jig) the rear end of of F-622 by ~3/4".
New problems created: The left-over panel plate materiaI would then be too
short for a bend for the baggage compartment floor tofit over the bend.
This could be fixed by cutting along a line where the floor meets the F-622
and attach an home made angle. I also would have to enlarge the slot of
F-624, the vertical channes between the bulkheads. (enlarged slot is hidden
by covered by plates - not so in my option B). Also, the middle J-channnel
would not allign with the F-622 resulting in a 'step' of the rivet line.
Mostly cosmetic- again unsightly..
B) Raise the front end of F-622 by ~ 1/2". enlarged slot problem as in
C) Make new F-650 plates. (Complicated, with all the flanges and angles and
obtaining the material.)
My question is, has any builder had the same problems?? How did you fix it??
Thanks for all and any input. My fuselage kit was send in May 1992.
Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Unison electronic ignition |
>
>
>Things I don't like about it... The cost. Also I would prefer having
>some type of indicator showing what the current timing advance is.
I worked out the cost of ownership of the Lasar system based on purchase
price, periodic replacement of the moving parts (the mags are still mags
and have a finite lifetime) and fuel saved, against the cost of standard
Slick mags. Unless the price of fuel goes up a dollar per gallon or so,
the Lasar system never breaks even against the stock mags with impulse
couplings. Yes, the Lasar system has a slight performance advantage up
high and I *really* like high-tech toys but I couldn't justify it on the
basis of cost. It gains you nothing down low at high power.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Mixture Attach-RV-8 |
> I have one of Vans 'throttle-mixture attach brackets'. I have the
> throttle installed, but is this bracket also supposed to support the
> mixture cable?
First off, make sure Van's bracket will really work. On my carb, and
as far as I know all the MA4-5 carbs that are being shipped with Van's
O360-A1A engines these days, the "well" in the aft right stud hole in
the carb is about 1/4" deep, which means that after you add the
necessary washers to go under the bracket attach point, there aren't
enough threads left for the nut.
Beyond that, the bracket was designed to handle a throttle cable with
a threaded sleeve, and kind of left it up to the builder to deal with
the mixture, usually with a straight wire cable and saddle clamp. You
could add an extension to the bracket to accomodate a threaded sleeve
but it will have to extend aft quite a ways to allow for the extra
length, especially if you have an ACS type cable with the telescoping
sleeve. I tried to make this work, but it put the attach point so
close to the firewall that it was difficult to then route the cable up
and over the battery box (RV-6).
As I have mentioned before, I am working with Vans to come up with a
bracket that will address these issues and that will work for other
between the engine and the carb, and the mixture portion will probably
be set up for a threaded sleeve and will be angled to the right so the
cable can come in beside the RV-6 battery box. I don't know at this
point if it will work for the RV-8 or not however, but I suspect it
will.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: F-622 (Baggage Compartment Rib) and F-650 (Rear Baggage Site |
> Listers, Van's manual states to alligen the middle J-channel and the rear
> end of F-622. The front end of F-622 is, per plan, 10" below the main
> longeron. This fixes the position of F-622. If I do this, the pre-bend
> flanges of F-650 do not match either at bulkhead F-606 or at F-622. The
> problem is that F-650 has the wrong angle on the corner where the two
> pre-bend flanges meet. Apparently I have the following options:
[snip]
I had the same problem. I just used the hand-seamer to re-bend the
flange on the F-650.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unison electronic ignition |
That was engine guru Everett Hatch's analysis, too. He talked me out of
replacing the mags on my hopped-up O-360.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
RV-4 64ST ducting remote oil cooler
> Unless the price of fuel goes up a dollar per gallon or so,
>the Lasar system never breaks even against the stock mags with impulse
>couplings. Yes, the Lasar system has a slight performance advantage up
>high and I *really* like high-tech toys but I couldn't justify it on the
>basis of cost. It gains you nothing down low at high power.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F-622 (Baggage Compartment Rib) and F-650 (Rear Baggage Site |
Plate) Allignment Problem for RV-6/6A
I recently fit these parts and while both F-649 and F-650 need modification, I
did not have the problem you describe. The forward edge of 649 needed cutting
to be parallel to 605. The rear edge of 649 needed cutting to fit 624. The
upper bent angle of both had to be cut to rest against 622. My kit was purchased
3/98.
Brian Eckstein
>
>
> Listers, Van's manual states to alligen the middle J-channel and the rear
> end of F-622. The front end of F-622 is, per plan, 10" below the main
> longeron. This fixes the position of F-622. If I do this, the pre-bend
> flanges of F-650 do not match either at bulkhead F-606 or at F-622. The
> problem is that F-650 has the wrong angle on the corner where the two
> pre-bend flanges meet. Apparently I have the following options:
>
> A) Lower (in jig) the rear end of of F-622 by ~3/4".
> New problems created: The left-over panel plate materiaI would then be too
> short for a bend for the baggage compartment floor tofit over the bend.
> This could be fixed by cutting along a line where the floor meets the F-622
> and attach an home made angle. I also would have to enlarge the slot of
> F-624, the vertical channes between the bulkheads. (enlarged slot is hidden
> by covered by plates - not so in my option B). Also, the middle J-channnel
> would not allign with the F-622 resulting in a 'step' of the rivet line.
> Mostly cosmetic- again unsightly..
>
> B) Raise the front end of F-622 by ~ 1/2". enlarged slot problem as in
>
> C) Make new F-650 plates. (Complicated, with all the flanges and angles and
> obtaining the material.)
>
> My question is, has any builder had the same problems?? How did you fix it??
> Thanks for all and any input. My fuselage kit was send in May 1992.
>
>
>
>
>
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage||
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Scotch Bright polishing wheels |
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com (cecil t hatfield) |
I was wondering why there are more single parent homes in todays times.
Dad
writes:
>
>Fellow listers;
>I have Scotch Bright polishing wheels available at a great price. Just
>what is needed when building a metal airplane.
>Anyone that has polished with one knows how fast a smooth edge can be
>obtained. All the filing is gone. I made an adapter and put them on
>a
>1/2 HP motor shaft.
>My wheels are in the original 3M boxes and are a full 12 inch
>diameter,
>3 inches wide, and with a 5 inch bore. I am asking 30 dollars each
>plus
>shipping.
>Contact me off line if interested.
>John
>N721JK RV-4 280 hours
>Ohio
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
Jim,
I have a mechanical Stewart Warner aircraft Tach. I was planning to use it
but some firewall modifications prevent getting a good path for the cable. I
plan to sell it and buy an Electric one (probably not UMA). Are you
interested in my Tach? It is new but showing 2.4 hours. Will sell for $100.
plus shipping.
Mike Wilson, RV-4
evening phone 503-397-6207
From: Jim Sears [mailto:sears(at)searnet.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 1998 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elect tach
Thanks to you fellas who have had problems with the UMA tachs, I
have sent a note to Aircraft Spruce to see if I can return mine. I spent
way too much money on the thing to buy crap. It was just under $300.
I could have bought a mechanical for a lot less money and will most
likely do that. I want something with an hour meter on it. A Mitchell
should be just fine.
Again, thanks for the heads up. Now, if I can just get A/S to live up to
their customer service promises. Obviously, UMA is not good at it.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Wiring. One step forward, two steps back)
October 31, 1998 - November 05, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ft