RV-Archive.digest.vol-fv

November 10, 1998 - November 16, 1998



      The standard kit wheel pants, the old 2 piece wheel pants, or the new
      pressure recovery 2 piece wheel pants.
      
      The new P.R. wheel pants from Van's give a 5 to 6 MPH speed gain over the
      original (standard) wheel pants.
      Also there soon should be a matching P.R. nose wheel fairing (like what
      is currently installed on the RV-8A) available as an option for builders
      installing the 3rd wheel on the front.
      
      
      Scott McDaniels
      These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
      reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel return line
Date: Nov 10, 1998
Scott, I have Airflow Performance injection on the O-360 in my RV-4. It does not require a fuel return line in normal operation. I do, however, have the purge valve for hot starts (flush the system with cool fuel before starting.) This does return fuel to the tanks. Don Rivera of Airflow Performance advised me to T into the inlet port from one tank into the fuel selector valve. Purge procedure then is to select the opposite tank, so that purge fuel runs into the non-selected tank's fuel line. I don't know how the stock IO-360 handles it. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraigst(at)ionet.net RV-4 64ST finished fiberglass plenum for oil cooler today. > >I have just completed my -8 tanks in prep of sealing them. In a discussion >today someone mentioned a fuel return line. I had completly forgotten >about putting one in as it is never mentioned in the plans. Even Tony B.'s >book does not discuss its use. Since I plan on using an IO-360 or O-360 >with aftermarket injection, I think this would be a desirable feature. >Any reason I wouldn't want to put in a return line? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
> > >With all the talk lately about G's, and a bit curious myself as far as >safety goes... I was wondering since the RV is limit load 6G, can someone >fly all day, everyday doing 6G manouvers and have no worry? ( I know it >would be tough to to 6Gs all day!). Someone will have to talk about the fatigue lifetime issues. >Also, since the RV-8 acro weight is 1550 (I think - don't have it in front >of me, just from memory), and at 6Gs that is 9300lbs, does that mean at >gross (1800lbs), it is OK to do, say 4Gs, which is 7200lbs? Theoretically, that is what it means. I adjust my G limits according to my static load. I would like to hear if that is not a valid approach. >I know how important it is to not overstress the airframe so was curious. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Skin Overlap
Date: Nov 11, 1998
This is a nice touch. It will allow the flap brace to have a single continuous layer to rivet to. And of course, it will look much better on the top skin. Thanks to all who commented on this topic. Mark McGee RV4 Wings From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 11:20 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Main Wing Skins - overlap >Mark, > I missed this also. I think the only place its shown for the -4 is in one >of the sketches. As far as I can tell, the only effects are asthethetic, >and possibly a little extra wear on the flap leading edge at the corner of >the underlying skin. The notch which is to be trimmed out does not extend >forward of the rear spar, so this could still be done after rivetting the >skins if youre careful. I still plan to do this. I will use a Dremel tool >with cutoff wheel and cut from the underside. I will slip a single edge >razor blade (or thin stainless steel shim stock) between the skins to avoid >marring the top skin and to provide an indication of when I have cut >through the bottom skin. > >Mike Wills >RV-4 fuse >willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Propeller
Peter, Every ones results will vary. You have in my opinion chosen one of the top wood prop makers out there. I have a Demuth prop with 500 hrs on it now. I have flown from one end of the country to the other and have been in weather I would rather not admit to. I have found that if I pull the power back to 2200 rpm in a heavy rain I have had no leading edge damage. ( this is around 150mph). Light rain I dont pull back as much and have had no problems. I live in a dry climate and have found that the prop torque doesent change much after torqing it the first couple of times. I do however check it when the cowl is off for oil changes. I did just have the prop refinished because the back of the blade was showing some dings and wear, the front and leading edge were still in good condition. The airplane is always hangared so outside sitting in the weather is not a problem. I think you will find that a wood prop has a little better performance then the metal if you get the right one. You will definatly find it a smoother running prop. The only other thing I can think to say on the positive side of wood might be that if you should sustain a prop strike your chances are alot better of getting off for less $$$$ mabe several thousand. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: Sam James wheelpants
Hi, I want to beg, borrow, steal, (or pay) for any used construction videos, Info packets, books, for (RV-6A, Engine,firewall forward, how to use metal working tools, etc). Please e-mail me with anything you have. Also I'm looking for any RV pictures you can send me. I really want one of a finished cockpit. Thanks in advance Mike Mike Wills wrote: > > Hi Tom, > Nothing negative intended. But when I see someone post "I gained 5mph by > changing xxx" I think its fair to ask what it was changed from. I had the > same discussion about a year ago with Dan Potter about his wing tips. Im > preparing to order my finish kit in the next month or so and Im trying to > decide what to get. So let me ask this another way. If you were in my > position would you buy Vans pressure recovery pants, Sam James pants, Mark > Fredericks "pushy pants", or??? Can you (or anyone else) compare these > various pants performance, price, and fit and finish? Feel free to respond > off list if you are worried about hurting anyone's feelings. > > > > >Mike SUN-100 RACE 228.7 Stock 0-360 every thing helps TOM > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Landing Gear Leg Labeling
In a message dated 11/9/98, 11:56:02 PM, rv-list(at)matronics.com writes: <> I can verify that the legs will only go in one way and have the axle line up if they are predrilled. Bernie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel return line
[snip] > Since I plan on using an IO-360 or O-360 >with aftermarket injection, I think this would be a desirable feature. >Any reason I wouldn't want to put in a return line? [snip] I recall Jim Cone have fuel problems and cured them by returning a fuel line to the selector. He could give you a better and complete idea, if he is listening. A Good Day To You! Denny RV-6 Near done! Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel return line
> >I have just completed my -8 tanks in prep of sealing them. In a discussion >today someone mentioned a fuel return line. I had completly forgotten >about putting one in as it is never mentioned in the plans. Even Tony B.'s >book does not discuss its use. Since I plan on using an IO-360 or O-360 >with aftermarket injection, I think this would be a desirable feature. >Any reason I wouldn't want to put in a return line? If I recall from my conversation with the folks at Airflow Dynamics, you can plumb the fuel return line upstream of the boost pump but downstream from the tank. That eliminates the need for a separate return to the tank. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LESTER H HOPE" <USHOPES(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Compass
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Lester Hope here. I'm an Avionics technician from New Zealand. In CT at present working on the KAMAN SH-2 Helicopter.. I can strongly reccomend the compass. we have used it in a commercial operation at home since 1973 and it is far more reliable than all it's competition plus it is about a quarter of the weight.... It is a tad dearer though. They make a compass on a mountimg bracket.. I'm not sure what it is called.. Its a bit cheaper but just as reliable and a good looking unit.. have a look at their web site. Good luck. Lester From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 9:12 AM Subject: RV-List: Compass > >Im not sure if this is relevant to the compass discussion, but when I was >down at the AOPA convention in Palms Springs, I saw what seemed to be a >very good compass for both glareshield and panel mount. Something about a >different fluid inside for dampening. > >It is the Navigator and Pegasus by SIRS Navigation out of England. > >Web site is sirs.co.uk > >Sells for $169 -$189 and they have the RV mounting parephenalia for about $15 >Dan > >Dan Wiesel >Interlink Recruiting >408-551-6554 >dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Fuel return line
<< I have just completed my -8 tanks in prep of sealing them. In a discussion today someone mentioned a fuel return line. I had completly forgotten about putting one in as it is never mentioned in the plans. Even Tony B.'s book does not discuss its use. Since I plan on using an IO-360 or O-360 with aftermarket injection, I think this would be a desirable feature. Any reason I wouldn't want to put in a return line? If I simply put a niple into the high point of the inboard rib of one of the tanks will this suffice if the tank is full and therefore above the level of the return? Another option would be to run a line next to the vent line inside the tank to get to the high point. One friend said he believes his airflow performance injection simply returns the fuel to a fuel line above the pump, will this work with the stock IO-360 injection? Scott A. Jordan >> Scott: You refer to the return line necessary when your system is equipped with the Airflow purge valve. We install a second bulkhead fitting in the root rib on one side, and connect the purge line to that. It does not need to have a line to the high point like the vent line. The Lyc FI systems do not have a return like the Cont systems do, nor is this line necessary for most normal Lyc operations. It's use can resolve some hot start problems. Let's say you put the return in the right tank: you will need to feed from this tank while using the purge system. The purge line would be easy to fit to an existing (closed) tank by making a fitting similiar to the tank drain fitting and attaching this fitting to the root rib. Use a #4 line for this. BTW- If you (or any other lister!) decide to purchase an Airflow system, I'm a dealer. Feel free to ask any additional questions! Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: LRI-DISCOUNT-Update-
I have five possible orders at the moment. (Wednesday morning) I am going to try to get this into the RVator to see if any Internet-challenged RV'ers would be interested in this discount. Some of you have posed some good questions and I am trying to get some answers for you. Anyone else interested please read below and check out the web page. Also see John Faschings other post from yesterday. Al (614) 890-6301 (I hate to pass up a bargain!) Listers, I called Bill Geipel of Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) Company and asked him what kind of a discount he could give us if I could get 10 guys (or gals) together to purchase 10 units. Bill said the units normally sell for $770.00 plus $80.00 for the optional heater plus $35.00 for shipping. He said if I could sell 10 we can have them for $670.00 for the LRI and $72.00 (cost) for the heater element and shipping would still be $35.00. That is a savings of $100.00 for the LRI and $8.00 more if you buy the heater. This price would be cash or check. For Credt Cards add 3%. If you wish to see more about the LRI go to: http://www.liftreserve.com/ and have a look at it and the particulars. I'm sure John Fasching (below) will answer any questions you might have also. Please contact me on or off list if you may be interested. AL > >FWIW > >Jim Huntington of Lift Reserve Indicator responded to me regarding my LRI >installation with more or less an offer: He said that if enough RV >builders got together and made a combined order that they would discount >the price...I personally think the LRI is worth its present retail price of >around $750 (Oshkosh special was $710) and my hesitation isn't that it is >not worth the money, its just the parting with $750 for ANYTHING is always >a pain to me....must have been some Scots in my background. Anyway, if >you're interested you can find the LRI people on the internet by searching >for Lift Reserve Indicator...their e-mail address is at the bottom of their >web page....incidentally, I have no connection or association with the >company...its just that I think they're on to something with this instrument. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Subject: Hartzell prop
A friend has relayed to me that Leavens Brothers Aviation in Toronto Ontario has a Hartzell compact hub prop for sale suitable for a O-360. Asking price is around $4000CDN ($2600US). Leavens is a large reputable overhaul shop that has been in business for many years. (800) 263-6142 not sure if it works for all of N.America (905) 678-7028 Ask for George (RV builder) in the prop shop. Terry Jantzi Kitchener ON RV-6 C-GZRV <http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent)
Subject: electronic compass
> > >Tom, > > I looked to me that these compasses ran off their own dedicated >battery..... Isn't that redundant? > Fred: No I don't think so. Although with only 6ma draw, running off a battery all the time would be practical. Or as some one noted, a battery backup would be easy. To answer some of the other comments I saw (thanks for all the response BTW), I think I'd have a whisky compass anyway, whether I had an electronic one or not. Yes it does require a microcontroller chip. We have some Motorola 68HC11 family development stuff here at work, so I guess I could use that. Although there are simpler/cheaper ones that would work too. I'm a digit-head myself, so I think I could cobble something together (several major EE's here at work to consult with too). Tom Craig's comment about the PAI vertical card compass makes me want to investigate those more. Are they expensive? But, it sounds like a number of people would consider this a useful compass. It looks do-able without huge amounts of work, so I think I'll do some tinkering. Maybe while I'm waiting for the wings to be delivered next month. Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Lift Reserve Indicator
Date: Nov 11, 1998
I've gotten some off-net inquiries regarding the LRI. If you want more info I can send you a copy of the Patent on this instrument...it provides are more information than the company does regarding the theory and use of it.... If you want a copy (its about 4-pages long) send me a STAMPED self-addressed envelope and I will mail you a copy. My address is John Fasching 11325 Hidden Hills Dr. Salida, CO 81201 RV-6A flying I repeat...I have no connections with LRI whatever ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dipaula(at)pete.nit.disa.mil
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: no rv-list email in days
On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Mark A. Van-Y wrote: > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 23:06:40 -0700 > From: Mark A. Van-Y <mvanyrv6(at)swlink.net> > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: no rv-list email in days > > > is the system down or is it at my end. haven,t got any email in days from > the list. > what,s up the list is up and running fine. (or at least, i haven't seen any interuption of incoming postings.) check your end. -D- > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Weather Information
Date: Nov 11, 1998
If you have not found it, here is an excellent one-stop weather web source: http://adds.awc-kc.noaa.gov/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brad Bundy" <bundyb(at)infowest.com>
Subject: sell RV6
Date: Jan 11, 1999
Anyone who may be or knows anyone who is interested in buying the Chard built RV6 which I've been renewing for the last three years can contact me in person at bundyb(at)infowest.com. or 435-673-3821. Priced to sell, completel rebuilt, and flying. I can email photos and other info. Also consider trading some www.classifieds2000.com. Brad, flying Chard built RV6 N48AC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L.R. BENTLY" <lloydb(at)intekom.co.za>
Subject: wing advice
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Good day listers . I would like to know if the main bulkhead assembly of the fuse. is required for any function during the construction of the wings for an RV6 as I have to build the fuse at a different address , many thanks .South Africa RV6 wings measure once , cut twice . measure twice , cut once. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Steve Hamer <shamers(at)netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery]
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com wrote: Has anyone had any experience with the Odyssey Battey that Van now lists in Jim, I just put one in my RV-4 yesterday. It seems to turn the engine over better than the Concorde. The interesting part is I bought a Jet Ski battery (PC625) rather than the "airplane" battery (PC545) because the Jet Ski battery sells for $89.88 versus $154.95 for the "airplane" battery. The specs for the Jet Ski battery are superior to the other one. The guy at the battery store said the Jet Ski guys just wouldn't pay the big bucks for a battery and the aiplane guys would. I think there's a commentary there somewhere. Anyway, three starts in not really a test of how this battery is going to work, but for an 10 pound savings (it ways 13.2 lbs) I'll leave it in there for a while to see how it works. Steve Hamer RV-4 flying (bought it) RV-6 wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: wing advice
L.R. BENTLY wrote: > I would like to know if the main bulkhead assembly of > the fuse. is required for any function during the construction of the wings > for an RV6 No. Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Bunny's Guide and I have moved
Hi Listers, Just to let you all know that a) "The Bunny's Guide to RV Building" will be available again at Xoom sometime soon. Xoom say they are reconfiguring things... that's why the Guide hasn't been available there for the last week or so. Keep trying <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm>. b) The Guide is no longer available at http://www.pec.co.nz. Anyone who still has links to there (Hovan, I think?) should point them at the Xoom page above. c) The Guide is available now at <http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny.htm>. However, the indexes and suchlike aren't set up there yet. Note that the photos, etc link to Xoom, so you won't be able to see those until Xoom gets my pages there back online. Here's a brief summary of what's on what pages. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bintro.htm Overview Pre-Build Stuff http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny0a.htm The Decision to Build http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny0b.htm Construction Techniques http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/btime.htm Time to Build http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/blinks.htm Links and References Empennage http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny1a.htm Tailplane and Fin http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny1b.htm Rudder and Elevators http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/carter0.htm David Carter' Emp notes Wings http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny2a.htm Spars and Ribs http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny2b.htm Skinning http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny2c.htm Tanks http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny2d.htm Ailerons and Flaps http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny3.htm Fuselage Avionics http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny5a.htm DIY Avionics http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny5b.htm RST-564 Audio Panel http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/frankvdh/bunny5c.htm Lighting d) I've moved... My new email address is frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz. My old standby of frankv(at)kai.ee.cit.ac.nz will still work, but frankv(at)pec.co.nz definitely won't. Regards, Frank van der Hulst. (RV-6 #24692, 1 wing closed, rivetting top skin to the other) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Arrrrggghhhh!!!! Re: Bunny's Guide and I have moved
Sorry folks, In my previous message, I left out the 'tilde' (~) in my new homepage location. Following are the correct URLs: > c) The Guide is available now at > <http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny.htm>. However, the indexes > and suchlike aren't set up there yet. Note that the photos, etc link to > Xoom, so you won't be able to see those until Xoom gets my pages there > back online. Here's a brief summary of what's on what pages. > > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bintro.htm Overview > > Pre-Build Stuff > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny0a.htm The Decision to Build > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny0b.htm Construction Techniques > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/btime.htm Time to Build > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/blinks.htm Links and References > > Empennage > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny1a.htm Tailplane and Fin > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny1b.htm Rudder and Elevators > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/carter0.htm David Carter's emp notes > > Wings > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny2a.htm Spars and Ribs > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny2b.htm Skinning > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny2c.htm Tanks > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny2d.htm Ailerons and Flaps > Fuselage > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny3.htm Fuselage > > Avionics > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny5a.htm DIY Avionics > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny5b.htm RST-564 Audio Panel > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~frankvdh/bunny5c.htm Lighting Frank. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net>
Subject: Slick Mags
My buddies 200 hr old Slick 4300 series mag just recently went belly up for no apparent reason. It left him VFR on top with only one mag for a while (not a comfortable situation). It has been replaced with a new one and now his bird is flying fine. Upon examination of the bad mag after removal (took the 4 screws out) and split the case we found nothing that looked unusual. Points were good, distributor cap and contacts were not burned, and all the gears were in perfect condition. I was wondering if there was a quick and simple way of troubleshooting the components in the mag with a simple volt ohm meter to isolate the defective component. chet razer 125 hrs and climbing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com>
Subject: Hand grip points entering the RV6A
I have some ideas on installing a handle (or one for each side) which involves two holes(per handle) drilled completely through the windshield bow with a small tube welded into the hole at each side (to regain strength lost due to drilling) for a nut bolt combination. This will allow me to use a handle similar to most SUV's for getting into the front seat. I think that it will work and provide the reinforcement - plus be padded and look a little better than just a steel bar sticking out (no-slam intended). Any additional comments would be appreciated. Ralph Capen RV6A Emp kit waiting onone less mtge Dallas TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: RV-4 CONSTRUCTION PHOTO SITES
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Hello, I am looking for RV-4 Construction Sites that have construction photo's. I am nearing the point of hanging an engine and installing avionics etc... I would like to see what others have done in these and other areas where personal touches were made. Regards, Steven B. Janicki Sr. Director Oracle Data Center 500 Oracle Pkwy Redwood Shores, CA 94065 650-506-2740 name="Steve B Janicki.vcf" filename="Steve B Janicki.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Janicki;Steve;B FN:Steve B Janicki ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center TITLE:Sr. Director TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740 TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165 ADR;WORK:;4op4;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA Pkwy=3D0D=3D0ARedwood Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA URL: URL:http://www.oracle.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com REV:19981111T230950Z END:VCARD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Free Rides
In a message dated 11/10/98 3:27:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, rpflanze(at)iquest.net writes: << Fred is a frequent contributor on the list and sounds like a pretty special guy too. >> I'll second that. It is SOOOOO important for folks first starting out to get the Big BOOST that RVating gives. Thanks to Fred, and my promise to give plenty of rides when my project is finally complete. Jim Nice RV6A WA State ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: FREE RIDES!
Speaking of FREE RIDES, have you (all) made your contribution to the RV-List fund raiser yet? It's been a couple of weeks since we started begging and Matt tells me that we have about a 12% participation rate! Come on you guys! Where else can you find people to give or get free rides in RV's? Where else can you find so much good information about compasses? (Compi?) How bout that Cellular phone thread! That one can keep you from being fined AND thrown in jail. What's that worth to you? Not to mention the entertainment value with such good prose and even jokes! (Don't get carried away with this one the archives are growing fast enough!) Wing skin overlaps, Freq.'s to notify your family on, Wheel pants, Split S's and reverse Cuban 8's. This list is an encyclopedia of information! And some of you still haven't even chipped in. It is VOLUNTARY but remember we defined that as meaning YOUR participation too! So come on, get in the spirit of giving! Send that contribution painlessly via the secured Net connection at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Or personal check to: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Thanks again for putting up with me! AL NOW go find a free $40,000 ride in some ones RV! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: DENNIS HART <dennishart(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: no rv-list email in days
Mark- check on bottom of rv-list homepage. It deals with your situation I think> > >is the system down or is it at my end. haven,t got any email in days from >the list. >what,s up > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Re: Notifying family on the ground
I just let it down from altitude and buzz the house at 210 mph or more and she wakes up immediately!!! John N721JK Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Grand rapids Engine Monitor
Thank you for the propeller responses now on to my next decision, engine guages. As I see it I have two options, Individual standard guages or the Grand Rapids Monitoring System. Cost comparisons (In canadian dollars) for RPM, Manifold Press, Oil Temp, Oil Press, Fuel Press and Voltage. Standard Instruments $770, Grand rapids $950. I would like CHT/EGT/OAT as well. The best instrument I can see for the dollars is the Electronic International EAC-1 @ $590.( I was advised the cheaper Westach unit was no good). This would place the standard instrument approach plus the EAC-1 @ $1360 against the Grand Rapids (which has EGT/CHT/OAT built in for the price of the senders) @ $1100, a nice savings. The EAC-1 can be expanded to read four cylinders for an additional $590.whereas the Grand rapids is currently internally limited to two cylinders for an additional $155. So my questions are: Has anyone experience with the Grand Rapids Monitor? Is two cylinders of EGT/CHT sufficient as this could be had with the Grand Rapids for $1255 against the Standard Instrument + EAC-1 with expander at $1950 (although this covers four cylinders)? Is there another approach? Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Slick Mags
<< My buddies 200 hr old Slick 4300 series mag just recently went belly up for no apparent reason. >> If equipped with a key switch- check that first! Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Change that Subject Line!
> your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it > easy to find threads in the archive. many threads get off on a tangent and lose the subject of the "subject". ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: Slick Mags
Chet, Have you eliminated the possibility of a bad harness lead? Is there continuity across the contacts? Stew RV4 Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
59-60,62-63,67,69,72,77,81-82,84,86-93
Date: Nov 11, 1998
>With all the talk lately about G's, and a bit curious myself as far as >safety goes... I was wondering since the RV is limit load 6G, can >someone >fly all day, everyday doing 6G manouvers and have no worry? ( I know >it >would be tough to to 6Gs all day!). > >Also, since the RV-8 acro weight is 1550 (I think - don't have it in >front >of me, just from memory), and at 6Gs that is 9300lbs, does that mean >at >gross (1800lbs), it is OK to do, say 4Gs, which is 7200lbs? > - In a theoretical sense, yes. - >I know how important it is to not overstress the airframe so was >curious. > - With that said ... I will add that is not a very good idea. I am assuming that you are referring to doing aerobatics at full up gross but limiting the max G load that you pull to about 4 G's. In a perfect world (which would mean that you were a perfect pilot) this would work just fine, but we all know it's not a perfect world. Very few RV pilots go out and pull 6 G's while they do aerobatics. Even fewer do it on a regular basis. Most recreational aerobatics pilots would probably find themselves graying out before pulling 6 G's very long. I know I would. What I am getting to here is that if you fly aerobatics at full gross weight you have already given up a lot of your safety margin which is required to be safe just in case a maneuver goes bad. Even if you are good it will happen once in a while. This is assuming that when you do aerobatics in an RV you never intentionally pull more than about 4 G's (the majority of RV pilots that before you get into the danger zone. As you already showed with the weight #'s doing aerobatics at gross weight your safety margin is greatly reduced and ANY mistake could put you into the danger zone. If things go really bad... Well, it wont be an issue for you any more. Having an operational range of up to 6 G's at aerobatic gross gives you a 2 G mistake margin before you should have to worry about hurting the airplane. At max gross the margin is barely over 1 G. I know, I know, many will probably counter this with the idea that you can do rolls and other maneuvers without getting any where near even 3 G's, and this is true, but things do happen. It is smart flying not to do aerobatics in an RV over aerobatic gross weight. But as already mentioned in this thread, each pilot is responsible for his own actions and judgements. Here is another issue involved, using an analogy that Van presented in a lunch time discussion recently ( I believe it will be the subject of an RVator article in the near future). When doing aerobatics, excess weight can have other effects other than just airframe loads. Van says that an RV in level cruse flight requires about 225 lbs of thrust from the prop. An RV-8 that is at aerobatic gross weight that has just snapped out of a botched loop with an accelerated stall at the top has the cruise power thrust of 225 lbs. + 1550 lbs. of gravity assisted thrust for a total of 1775 lbs of apparent thrust (almost 8 times what was required for 180 mph cruise airspeed) while the nose is pointed directly at the ground. Assuming the accelerated stall happened at about 85 mph with the nose pointed at the ground at would only take about 5 seconds to be at 200 indicated (this is for illustration only, I hope that anyone doing loops has had enough instruction to keep from freezing up and not immediately pull to begin a recovery). I'm sure you can see the point of this analogy. An RV-8 at 1800 lbs. in the same situation would have 9 times the apparent thrust as compared to level flight cruise. The heavier you are the faster speed will build with the nose down. A most interesting fact is how high the apparent thrust still is with the nose pointed at the ground at 45 Deg. or even only 30 Deg. Tune in next time...you will have to wait for Van's article, and then you can get a more detailed explanation. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Dept of Silly Grins, aka First Flight
From: robjhall(at)Juno.com (Robert J. Hall)
Listers, This post is primarily meant to encourage those slow builders such as I am to keep at it. Because "You are going to love this airplane." After nine years, RV-6 N976RH, #20719 finally took to the air today without incident. In fact, I felt more at home in my RV-6 after 30 minutes than I ever did in the Aeronca Champ I was flying to get re-acquainted with tailwheels. For you ex-military pilots, its like coming home. The only regrets: not starting sooner; not working faster. One recommendation, if you get the opportunity to fly with Mike Seager in the factory RV-6, do it. Some vital stats: 1004 lbs, VFR panel, upholstery, carpet, no paint 160 hp Lyc O-320H2AD Warnke 72/72 prop (2270 rpm static, 6800 ft fld elevation, 0 deg C.) Lyc "lead weight" starter Vetterman crossover exhaust sliding canopy left hand throttle electric flaps, electric elev. trim RMI engine monitor Garmin GPS Pilot III for navigation Right now, I don't know that I would change anything. Thanks, Van. Thanks, Matt. Thanks to all you list contributors. Grins to all. Bob Hall RV-6 Builder and Pilot Colorado Springs, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Subject: Grand rapids Engine Monitor
Dave Sloan has a Grand Rapids Engine Monitor in his 6A. I have been interested in there unit for a couple of years for my own 6 but was wondering how easy it was to use and how easy it would be to see in bright sun light. Dave took me up one day on a very bright sunny day and need I say more than my own Engine Monitor is downstairs waiting for installation. I think it's a great way to go. bramsec wrote: > > Thank you for the propeller responses now on to my next decision, engine > guages. > > As I see it I have two options, Individual standard guages or the Grand > Rapids Monitoring System. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Mags
RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote: > > > Chet, > Have you eliminated the possibility of a bad harness lead? > Is there continuity across the contacts? > Stew RV4 Co. The P lead, the keyed switch and the switch wiring was all AOK, the mag was positively the problem. I was just wondering how a layman could isolate the internal mag component that was bad. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gusndale(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 1998
Subject: Re: wing advice
Hi Lloyd, No, the main fuse bulkhead is not needed during wing construction. It is included with the wing kit because the wing spars have been factory match drilled to it for accurate assembly once the fuse is done. Dale Wotring Ridgefield, WA RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Subject: Painting stainless?
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Listers, Just curious whether anyone has painted the interior side of their stainless steel firewall for cosmetic purposes. I just riveted mine tonight with Proseal under all but the top reinforcement angle and of course it made a mess. Upon cleaning it off, or attempting to, with laquer thinner it took some of the primer off the angles. Now it looks kind of tacky - not very "finished". I was thinking of just priming over the entire interior side simply to improve the looks. Will it stick to the stainless if I buff it with scotchbrite? Thanks, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Subject: Re: Grand rapids Engine Monitor
Date: Nov 12, 1998
<> Peter, Yes, there's another approach. Check out the two products from Rocky Mountain Instruments at http://rkymtn.com/. In particular you would be looking at the MicroMonitor. Check the archives on RMI or MicroMonitor and see the comments. This is a very solid unit and a very solid value. I am installing both units from RMI. Regards, Randy Lervold RV-8, #80500 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 1998
From: Dan Brown <danb(at)accex.net>
Subject: Re: Painting stainless?
Randy Lervold wrote: > "finished". I was thinking of just priming over the entire interior side > simply to improve the looks. Will it stick to the stainless if I buff it > with scotchbrite? Just FWIW, I was at an auto paint store this afternoon, and I saw a "self-etching primer" in gray that claims it works on stainless steel, steel, and aluminum. It's in a 12 oz. spray can, made by Sherwin-Williams. There was also another maker of apparently similar stuff, but I don't remember who it was. Dan Brown, KE6MKS, danb(at)accex.net Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: wing advice
Date: Nov 12, 1998
No, you will make your wings without using the bulkhead pieces. Just don't lose them! They are drilled to fit your wing spars and no other bulkhead will be exactly the same. Steve Soule Still working on the RV-6A cabin frame Good day listers . I would like to know if the main bulkhead assembly of the fuse. is required for any function during the construction of the wings...... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: "M.Mckenna" <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Mags
Check for a shorted condenser. Remove condenser from mag and measure across it with an ohmmeter. Should read infinity. Also your coil could have shorted or open windings. Shorted windings would be difficult to measure without knowing normal resistance reading of coils. The condenser is your most likely culprit. Mike Mckenna (mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net) RV-8 wings Lawrenceville, Ga. *********************************************************** chester razer wrote: > > > RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote: > The P lead, the keyed switch and the switch wiring was all AOK, the mag > was positively the problem. I was just wondering how a layman could > isolate the internal mag component that was bad. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Mags
remove the capacitor (condenser for you old guys) and check with an ohmmeter from the capacitor case to its lead wire...should show as open (if using an analog meter with a needle, it may show an initial jump towards zero ohms, then back to infinity)...also, check the continuity of the coil while you're in there...it should not show an open. That's about all there is to check other than that the points are actually opening (spin the drive gear until the impulse fires) and wath the point gap in a darkened room...you might see a tiny spark across them...if not, repeat with the capacitor disconnected. chester razer wrote: > > RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > Chet, > > Have you eliminated the possibility of a bad harness lead? > > Is there continuity across the contacts? > > Stew RV4 Co. > > The P lead, the keyed switch and the switch wiring was all AOK, the mag > was positively the problem. I was just wondering how a layman could > isolate the internal mag component that was bad. > Scott 1986 Corben Junior Ace N3642 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Dept of Silly Grins, aka First Flight
congratulations Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Mags
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Check for a shorted Capacitor. From: chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 4:43 PM Subject: RV-List: Slick Mags > >My buddies 200 hr old Slick 4300 series mag just recently went belly up >for no apparent reason. It left him VFR on top with only one mag for a >while (not a comfortable situation). It has been replaced with a new >one and now his bird is flying fine. Upon examination of the bad mag >after removal (took the 4 screws out) and split the case we found >nothing that looked unusual. Points were good, distributor cap and >contacts were not burned, and all the gears were in perfect condition. >I was wondering if there was a quick and simple way of troubleshooting >the components in the mag with a simple volt ohm meter to isolate the >defective component. > >chet razer 125 hrs and climbing > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Subject: ELT Antenna
Date: Nov 12, 1998
I have an ACK 450 ELT that has about a 2 foot antenna for it. (this is in addition to the portable telescopic one) Are they all supposed to be this long? Or is there a short, stubby, xponder type antenna that will work? thanks.. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er Finish Kit Here! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Painting stainless?
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Randy; I painted my firewall on the inside with Dupont Centauri, and it came out fine, seems to be quite tough. I just sanded the firewall with fine sandpaper first, followed by a cleaning with Prep-Sol. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > > >Listers, > >Just curious whether anyone has painted the interior side of their >stainless >steel firewall for cosmetic purposes. I just riveted mine tonight with >Proseal under all but the top reinforcement angle and of course it >made a >mess. Upon cleaning it off, or attempting to, with laquer thinner it >took >some of the primer off the angles. Now it looks kind of tacky - not >very >"finished". I was thinking of just priming over the entire interior >side >simply to improve the looks. Will it stick to the stainless if I buff >it >with scotchbrite? > >Thanks, >Randy Lervold >RV-8, #80500 >fuselage > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: ELT Antenna
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Paul; That is the elt antenna; the short telescopic one stays with the unit itself in case you want to remove the unit and have an antenna for portability. I have the same unit; I plan to mount it horizontally in the wingtip; just mount it to the forward part of the last rib, and make a gentle bend as it follows the wingtip around. Of course, you have to run some RG-58 cable out to the wingtip along with other wires. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > >I have an ACK 450 ELT that has about a 2 foot antenna for it. (this >is in >addition to the portable telescopic one) Are they all supposed to be >this >long? Or is there a short, stubby, xponder type antenna that will >work? > >thanks.. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A (197AB) Arizona >http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er >Finish Kit Here! > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Hartzell prop
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Terry, Help! The 800 number did not work from Oklahoma. I tried the 905 number but it was a fax line. Please send me an alternate phone number for George if you can find one. I am interested in this prop. Thanks, Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 > >A friend has relayed to me that Leavens Brothers Aviation in Toronto >Ontario has a Hartzell compact hub prop for sale suitable for a O-360. >Asking price is around $4000CDN ($2600US). Leavens is a large reputable >overhaul shop that has been in business for many years. > >(800) 263-6142 not sure if it works for all of N.America >(905) 678-7028 >Ask for George (RV builder) in the prop shop. > >Terry Jantzi >Kitchener ON >RV-6 C-GZRV ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > > >Van says that an RV in level cruse flight requires about 225 lbs of >thrust from the prop. An RV-8 that is at aerobatic gross weight that has >just snapped out of a botched loop with an accelerated stall at the top >has >the cruise power thrust of 225 lbs. + 1550 lbs. of gravity assisted >thrust >for a total of 1775 lbs of apparent thrust (almost 8 times what was >required for 180 mph cruise airspeed) while the nose is pointed directly >at the ground. > >A most interesting fact is how high the apparent thrust still is with the >nose pointed at the ground at 45 Deg. or even only 30 Deg. Scott, I certainly do not want to argue with the thrust of this article, but I would point out that the acceleration of gravity is 32 feet per second squared no matter what the weight. I do think that drag will cause less a decelerative effect at higher weights. In other words a BB and a feather will accelerate at the same rate in a vaccum. With air drag there is a difference. Like many things this is not as simple as it may seem. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6Q N441LP Reserved Wiring & FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Grand rapids Engine Monitor
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Randy; In the bang for the buck category, it is impossible to beat the AV-8 and AV-10 engine monitors by Audio Flight Avionics in Canada. My AV-8 with senders ran around $700.00 complete! This is pretty much everything except fuel flow, which is on the AV-10. Check out the web site at ; http://www.rose.com/~afa Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > ><Has anyone experience with the Grand Rapids Monitor? >Is two cylinders of EGT/CHT sufficient as this could be had with the >Grand Rapids for $1255 against the Standard Instrument + EAC-1 with >expander at $1950 (although this covers four cylinders)? >Is there another approach? >Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto)>> > > >Peter, >Yes, there's another approach. Check out the two products from Rocky >Mountain Instruments at http://rkymtn.com/. In particular you would be >looking at the MicroMonitor. Check the archives on RMI or MicroMonitor >and >see the comments. This is a very solid unit and a very solid value. I >am >installing both units from RMI. > >Regards, >Randy Lervold >RV-8, #80500 >fuselage > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pressure Hoses-Hot Rods
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Those of you getting ready to buy your pressure hoses for your engine, check out your local hot-rod performance shop. I checked, and prices were about two-thirds the price of Vans for the same exact product. Plus no shipping or waiting a week for the parts! It would be worth a call anyway to find out. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com>
Subject: Re: Grand rapids Engine Monitor
Date: Nov 12, 1998
> ><Has anyone experience with the Grand Rapids Monitor? >Is two cylinders of EGT/CHT sufficient as this could be had with the >Grand Rapids for $1255 against the Standard Instrument + EAC-1 with >expander at $1950 (although this covers four cylinders)? >Is there another approach? >Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto)>> Check out the Allegro M816. More functionality in less space (one 2.25" hole) for equivalent cost. The archives have quite a bit of info on it. Rob Acker (RV-6Q). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Dept of Silly Grins, aka First Flight
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Coooooooongratulations Bob!! Great, that your first flight went as planned. Don.t vorget to let that RV smile stay on for a few years. Yes, there is hope for us slow-pokes. I would like to have a look at your left hand throttle arrangement. Manny happy landings! >Listers, >This post is primarily meant to encourage those slow builders such as I >am to keep at it. Because "You are going to love this airplane." After >nine years, RV-6 N976RH, #20719 finally took to the air today without Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage|| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Pressure Hoses-Hot Rods
Von, I dont know where you live, what shops are in your area, or what kind of hose you are buying, but if its Earl's, Russell, or Aeroquip, check out Summit Racing before you buy local. Summit is a mail order speed shop catering to the hot rod crowd (I spent a lot of money in a previous life on hot rods). Summit is usually 10% - 20% cheaper than any of the local speed shops on just about everything. There is a website but I dont have the URL. I think the phone number is in the yeller pages. They always have a multipage ad in Hot Rod magazine. Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil > >Those of you getting ready to buy your pressure hoses for your engine, >check out your local hot-rod performance shop. >Von Alexander >RV-8 N41VA >N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery]
Date: Nov 12, 1998
One of the guys here has one and likes it. Check the archives. Bob. N figured the amps to be about 11.6 (see below) This is only a consideration if your need to know how long you can fly with your essential equipment on battery power alone. Also, is the Jet Ski battery a soft cover? I think for our environment that would be O.K.. Ross ________________________________________________________________________________ "The 7 pound weight savings noted in the original post is a bit misleading . . . If you check the data sheet you'll see that there are two batteries in the 13-14 pound range that will deliver a "reserve capacity" of 27-28 minutes. The notes for the data sheet say this is to support a 25A load down to 10.5 volts. Extrapolating this out: 25 x 28 is 700 ampere-minutes divided by 60 yields 11.6 ampere-hours at the 25 amp rate (impressive by the way). The next battery size up is rated at 24 pounds to deliver 22 A.H. at the 25 amp rate. These weight to capacity ratios are right in line with the rest of the industry. "
From: Steve Hamer <shamers(at)netscape.net>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery]
>I just put one in my RV-4 yesterday. It seems to turn the engine over better >than the Concorde. The interesting part is I bought a Jet Ski battery (PC625) >rather than the "airplane" battery (PC545) because the Jet Ski battery sells >for $89.88 versus $154.95 for the "airplane" battery. The specs for the Jet >Ski battery are superior to the other one. The guy at the battery store said >the Jet Ski guys just wouldn't pay the big bucks for a battery and the aiplane >guys would. I think there's a commentary there somewhere. Anyway, three >starts in not really a test of how this battery is going to work, but for an >10 pound savings (it ways 13.2 lbs) I'll leave it in there for a while to see >how it works. > >Steve Hamer >RV-4 flying (bought it) >RV-6 wings > > > > > http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Subject: Pressure Hoses-Hot Rods
Date: Nov 12, 1998
I have found a distributor for Earl's hoses (the kind you buy in your local hotrod shops). He is much cheaper than the stores, and you don't pay tax...he will sell direct.. http://www.crestcomm.com/motorsports/wmeng-earls.htm or call Dick at 1-715-342-1934 He can send you an Earl's catalog that has all the hoses and AN- fittings you will need. I put steel braided hoses between my brake pedals. The price of the hose alone is about $2 a foot. (The same stuff is $5 a foot in a hotrod shop) Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er Finish Kit is Here! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Re: ELT Antenna
quarter wave antenna is 0.6185 meters (24.2 inches) and for 243.5 MHz at 5/8 wave 0.6156 meters. A simple plated steel whip (which is what came with my ACK 450 (it rusts too)) should be slightly shorter due to the current flowing at below light speed (around 0.9 c). If you want a shorter antenna you have the choice of either bending the supplied antenna and then extending it slightly to compensate for its (very slightly) reduced electrical length, purchasing a new antenna similar to what you have as a com antenna or designing a new antenna with a loading coil (not a job for an amateur (O.k. maybe a ham type amateur...). If you ever need an ELT in an aircraft you will probably be leaving it very shortly (or not at all...) so I would put the transmitter in an inflight pilot accessible location. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RV-List: ELT Antenna Date: 12-11-98 07:16 I have an ACK 450 ELT that has about a 2 foot antenna for it. (this is in addition to the portable telescopic one) Are they all supposed to be this long? Or is there a short, stubby, xponder type antenna that will work? thanks.. Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er Finish Kit Here! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Pressure Hoses-Hot Rods
http://www.summitracing.com/ Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: My Page is temporarily down for maintenance ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Subject: Re: Pressure Hoses-Hot Rods
Date: Nov 12, 1998
shops on just about everything. There is a website but I dont have the It is http://www.summitracing.com Summit is also a good company to deal with. I purchased my remote oil filter unit from them. (about $30, I think) and they had plenty of time to answer questions for me, etc...and they are open 24 hours a day... Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er Finish Kit is Here! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Grand rapids Engine Monitor
Peter, I tried to send direct to you but it got bounced so I'm responding to the list. You should check out AFA's AV-8/AV-10. I just ordered an AV-8 a month ago for my -4. RPM, 2 CHTs, 2 EGTs, oil press, oil temp, volts, pilot configurable timers, etc... I didnt get manifold pressure but they can do that also. In fact they can do just about anything you ask of them; Rod Long is very flexible in what he is willing to do to meet your requirements. All in a single 3.125" instrument. Oh, and of course their real claim to fame is the audio warning when limits are exceeded. See their website at: http://www.rose.com/~afa/index.html In fact they are in your hometown!! See them in person! BTW cost on my unit with features listed above and including probes was $760US (I got a show special, bought at Copperstate fly-in, not sure if you could get the same but its worth a shot). Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil > >As I see it I have two options, Individual standard guages or the Grand >Rapids Monitoring System. > >Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: OrndorffG(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Painting stainless?
Randy, You will probably want to insulate the inside of your firewall to reduce heat and noise, so painting for cosmetic reasons isn't necessary. Also, many paints come off when an adhesive is applied to attach the firewall insulation. Becki Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: Elec Trim failure
Listers, I am putting this out in hopes that It might help someone with the same problem, not for the purpose of starting the electric trim vs manual thread again. I will first say that I am very happy with my electric trim and still wouldnt change it. My airplane (an RV4) has 525 hrs on it. Over the course of the last 40 or 50 hours I have noticed that I had to play with the coolie hat switch to get the airplane to trim in the nose up direction. It never completely failed, It was an intermittent problem. More of an anoyance than anything else. I finally decided to fix the problem before it became more than an anoyance. If I ran the trim switch in either direction I could hear the relay clicking. This indicated to me that the switch and the relay were both working. I removed the servo from the elevator thinking I had the culprit. I pluged a volt meter into each hot lead going into the servo and had my wife actuate the trim switch in each direction. Ah I must be right im showing 12volts at both leads. Now with the servo in hand I plugged it directly into a battery and ran it in both directions several times with not ever a skip or a sputter. Now this to me was confusing,( some what of a relief since the new servo packages run around $200.00) never the less everything checked out good. I talked to an R&E at work (radio electrician) and he suggested that I wasent getting the full amperage to the servo. In other words a relay problem. To make a long story a little shorter I purchased a new relay from Mac (Menzimer I think it is now). I installed it on the airplane and it has worked perfectly since. Hopefully if some one out there is having the same trouble or has the same trouble this will help make things a little easier. The relay cost around $25.00 not nearly as bad as making the $200.00 mistake. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com>
Subject: RV Evaluators and Ferry Pilots?
Date: Nov 12, 1998
So I fell in love with RVs, but there is no way I can take time off to build one right now. So I check Trade A Plane, and find one with everything I want in Denver, Colorado, but I live in Bellevue, Washington. (I also found a good one in Dallas, Texas.) So, are there any RV builders in Denver or Dallas who would like to do some kind of pre-purchase inspection? (I have no problem paying you for your time.) And if I decide to go with a long distance purchase, how do I find someone to ferry an RV back to Seattle? I'm a new private pilot, 92 hours and counting, working on an instrument rating. Never flown cross-country outside of Washington state. Although I'd love to do the ferry flight myself, it just sounds like setting myself up for an NTSB report ("The purchaser of the plane, a new pilot with less than 100 hours logged and 0 hours in this model aircraft, was attempting to fly half way across the country to his home airport of Seattle, Washington, when bad weather....") Are there any RV-6A owners in Washington State that would be willing to take me up for a flight or two, so I can see if I really want to do this? (Yes, I'm talking about buying an RV when my total experience comes from sitting in the blue 6A at Arlington this summer.) Is anyone local selling an RV with "everything I want"? (Specifically - C/S or metal fixed-pitch, IFR, "pretty paint", AP (Navaid OK), etc.) Thanks to all for your help and counsel. (As you can see, the responses to my earlier question about IFR training in a 6A were pretty positive, so I'm thinking about actually doing it.) Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Slick Mags
Date: Nov 12, 1998
RV-List message posted by: "M.Mckenna" Check for a shorted condenser. Remove condenser from mag and measure across it with an ohmmeter Note: It is also a good suggestion to short out any Capacitor before doing any ohmeter checks. Some capacitors will hold a charge for a while. You could zap your meter. Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight sept 8/93 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com>
Subject: Re: LRI-DISCOUNT-Update-
Al, I am interesting in this special discount on LRI. Please count me in. T.Nguyen RV-6A Fuselage >>> Al Mojzisik 11/11/98 07:53AM >>> I have five possible orders at the moment. (Wednesday morning) I am going to try to get this into the RVator to see if any Internet-challenged RV'ers would be interested in this discount. Some of you have posed some good questions and I am trying to get some answers for you. Anyone else interested please read below and check out the web page. Also see John Faschings other post from yesterday. Al (614) 890-6301 (I hate to pass up a bargain!) Listers, I called Bill Geipel of Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) Company and asked him what kind of a discount he could give us if I could get 10 guys (or gals) together to purchase 10 units. Bill said the units normally sell for $770.00 plus $80.00 for the optional heater plus $35.00 for shipping. He said if I could sell 10 we can have them for $670.00 for the LRI and $72.00 (cost) for the heater element and shipping would still be $35.00. That is a savings of $100.00 for the LRI and $8.00 more if you buy the heater. This price would be cash or check. For Credt Cards add 3%. If you wish to see more about the LRI go to: http://www.liftreserve.com/ and have a look at it and the particulars. I'm sure John Fasching (below) will answer any questions you might have also. Please contact me on or off list if you may be interested. AL > >FWIW > >Jim Huntington of Lift Reserve Indicator responded to me regarding my LRI >installation with more or less an offer: He said that if enough RV >builders got together and made a combined order that they would discount >the price...I personally think the LRI is worth its present retail price of >around $750 (Oshkosh special was $710) and my hesitation isn't that it is >not worth the money, its just the parting with $750 for ANYTHING is always >a pain to me....must have been some Scots in my background. Anyway, if >you're interested you can find the LRI people on the internet by searching >for Lift Reserve Indicator...their e-mail address is at the bottom of their >web page....incidentally, I have no connection or association with the >company...its just that I think they're on to something with this instrument. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Slick Mags
>The P lead, the keyed switch and the switch wiring was all AOK, the mag >was positively the problem. I was just wondering how a layman could >isolate the internal mag component that was bad. Others have mentioned the condenser/capacitor across the points. Also check to see if the coil secondary winding is open (infinite resistance from ground to the center contact of the distributor). I have only had one slick mag ever fail on me and it was due to an open coil. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6ator(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: Re: Painting stainless?
DON,T PAINT THAT FIREWALL !! Besides the fact that nothing looks prettier than a nice stainless firewall, you are asking for trouble by painting the firewall. In the event of an engine fire you are going to burn the paint and introduce a lot of smoke and potentially lethal fumes into the cockpit. I don,t care what kind of prep or paint you use, you will constantly be touching up scratched and chipped paint, stainless does not like to be painted, especially when it is exposed to the drastic temperature changes associated with an aircraft firewall. Polish it up and enjoy! Regards, Bill Mahoney Sherman, CT RV-6 N747W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: IRIDITE
If there are any builders in the Puget Sound(Wa State) region that would like to split the cost of a ten pound can of Iridite 14-2, please contact me off- list. There is no way I will use that much. I think you could do several RV's with this amount. I plan to purchase this sometime soon. Jim Nice RV6A WA State ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Hartzell prop
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Tom, In case Terry hasn't been back to you yet Leavens: 905-678-1234 Fax 905-678-7028 Web www.leavensaviation.com 24 hour AOG line 416-563-5221 ( I don't know what an AOG line is.) Regards Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept. 8/93 Beautiful British Columbia > From: Tom Craig-Stearman <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Hartzell prop > Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 7:19 AM > > > Terry, > > Help! The 800 number did not work from Oklahoma. I tried the 905 number > but it was a fax line. Please send me an alternate phone number for George > if you can find one. I am interested in this prop. > > Thanks, > Tom Craig-Stearman > RV-4 > > > > > >A friend has relayed to me that Leavens Brothers Aviation in Toronto > >Ontario has a Hartzell compact hub prop for sale suitable for a O-360. > >Asking price is around $4000CDN ($2600US). Leavens is a large reputable > >overhaul shop that has been in business for many years. > > > >(800) 263-6142 not sure if it works for all of N.America > >(905) 678-7028 > >Ask for George (RV builder) in the prop shop. > > > >Terry Jantzi > >Kitchener ON > >RV-6 C-GZRV > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: RV Evaluators and Ferry Pilots?
Date: Nov 12, 1998
I applaud your cautious approach, as well as your taste in fine airplanes. You won't regret buying an RV. Good luck and welcome in advance. Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 a'building in Oklahoma, not very convenient to your request. > >And if I decide to go with a long distance purchase, how do I find someone >to ferry an RV back to Seattle? I'm a new private pilot, 92 hours and >counting, working on an instrument rating. Never flown cross-country >outside of Washington state. Although I'd love to do the ferry flight >myself, it just sounds like setting myself up for an NTSB report ("The >purchaser of the plane, a new pilot with less than 100 hours logged and 0 >hours in this model aircraft, was attempting to fly half way across the >country to his home airport of Seattle, Washington, when bad weather....") > >Are there any RV-6A owners in Washington State that would be willing to take >me up for a flight or two, so I can see if I really want to do this? (Yes, >I'm talking about buying an RV when my total experience comes from sitting >in the blue 6A at Arlington this summer.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: Re: RV-Am looking for RV builders & flyers in the Oshkosh WI
area Please email me off list if you are building or flying a RV or Harmon Rocket and you live with a couple of hours of Oshkosh, WI Thnaks Chris Wilcox Oshkosh, WI (920) 235-1082 (920) 235-1083 Fax ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com>
Subject: Re: Pressure Hoses-Hot Rods
Besing, Paul wrote: > > > I have found a distributor for Earl's hoses (the kind you buy in your local > hotrod shops). I bought a great oil cooler from Earls. Mounted on the left cowl opening and oil temp has never been over 190. John Kitz N721JK Ohio 283 hours in 2 years ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Painting stainless?
RV6ator(at)aol.com wrote: > > > DON,T PAINT THAT FIREWALL !! > > Besides the fact that nothing looks prettier than a nice stainless firewall, > you are asking for trouble by painting the firewall. In the event of an engine > fire you are going to burn the paint and introduce a lot of smoke and > potentially lethal fumes into the cockpit. > I don,t care what kind of prep or paint you use, you will constantly be > touching up scratched and chipped paint, stainless does not like to be > painted, especially when it is exposed to the drastic temperature changes > associated with an aircraft firewall. > > Polish it up and enjoy! > > Regards, > > Bill Mahoney > Sherman, CT > RV-6 N747W > Better yet, insulate the firewall. Craig Hiers RV-4 N143CH Tallahassee,FL. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Yes, you can pull 6 Gs at aerobatic gross weight all day long, every day, up to the service life of the airframe. An airframe is designed to 150% of its intended load limit. In theory this should produce a structure with essentially infinite life, but that doesn't hold true in the real world. Repeated load cycles and fatigue take their toll. If I recall an old RVator article properly, service life for the RVs was estimated at 24,000 hours, or 12,000 hours with anodized spars. By way of comparision, the 1960s T-37s I flew had about 16,000 hours on them in 1995. These airplanes flew dawn to dusk five days a week and a weekend or two each month. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraigst(at)ionet.net RV-4 64ST finishing remote oil cooler installation > >With all the talk lately about G's, and a bit curious myself as far as >safety goes... I was wondering since the RV is limit load 6G, can someone >fly all day, everyday doing 6G manouvers and have no worry? ( I know it >would be tough to to 6Gs all day!). ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Grand rapids Engine Monitor
Thnsk for the information Randy. I looked at the AV-8 however the cost was at least $CN 500 more than the Grand Rapids but my main reservation is the display which only shows one item at a time. I know about their optional LCD display but that did not show as many items as the Grand Rapid and cost an additional $CN 290 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Hartzell prop
Ken Hoshowski wrote: > > Tom, In case Terry hasn't been back to you yet > Leavens: 905-678-1234 > Fax 905-678-7028 > Web www.leavensaviation.com > 24 hour AOG line 416-563-5221 ( I don't know what an AOG line is.) > > Regards > Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept. 8/93 > Beautiful British Columbia > > > From: Tom Craig-Stearman <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Hartzell prop > > Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 7:19 AM > > > > > > Terry, > > > > Help! The 800 number did not work from Oklahoma. I tried the 905 number > > but it was a fax line. Please send me an alternate phone number for > George > > if you can find one. I am interested in this prop. > > > > Thanks, > > Tom Craig-Stearman > > RV-4 > > > > > > > > > >A friend has relayed to me that Leavens Brothers Aviation in Toronto > > >Ontario has a Hartzell compact hub prop for sale suitable for a O-360. > > >Asking price is around $4000CDN ($2600US). Leavens is a large reputable > > >overhaul shop that has been in business for many years. > > > > > >(800) 263-6142 not sure if it works for all of N.America > > >(905) 678-7028 > > >Ask for George (RV builder) in the prop shop. > > > > > >Terry Jantzi > > >Kitchener ON > > >RV-6 C-GZRV > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au>
Subject: Re: Propeller
Date: Nov 13, 1998
to say on the positive side of wood might be that if you should sustain > a prop strike your chances are alot better of getting off for less $$$$ mabe > several thousand. > Ryan Bendure Co. Unless the the prop strike involves a bird while in flight ! Brian (using a woodprop with several near misses with birds) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Scott <acepilot(at)mwt.net>
Subject: Re: Slick Mags
Scott wrote: > edited... > That's about all there is to check other than that the > points are actually opening (spin the drive gear until the impulse fires) and wath > the point gap in a darkened room...you might see a tiny spark across them...if > not, repeat with the capacitor disconnected. > AND BE SURE YOUR FINGER IS NOT ON THE P-LEAD CONNECTION OR YOU WILL KNOW IT IS WORKING ALSO-O-O-O :) (All this assumes you have the mag off of the engine too!) > chester razer wrote: > > > > > RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > Chet, > > > Have you eliminated the possibility of a bad harness lead? > > > Is there continuity across the contacts? > > > Stew RV4 Co. > > > > The P lead, the keyed switch and the switch wiring was all AOK, the mag > > was positively the problem. I was just wondering how a layman could > > isolate the internal mag component that was bad. > > > > Scott > 1986 Corben Junior Ace > N3642 > > Gotta Fly or Gonna Die > Scott 1986 Corben Junior Ace N3642 Gotta Fly or Gonna Die ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CW9371(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: Whats the latest on the race to Oshkosh for EAA
Please let me know what is going on as I think It would be nice to fly in to Wautoma WI (Y50) and stay there. Is a 40 min drive to Oshkosh. 15 min flight. 3800 by 60 black top runway. The stardusteres club stays in Wautoma. Its a great place. Please contact me for further info. Chris WIlcox (920) 235-1082 (920) 235-1083 fax ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLARV8N(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: RV Builder assistance
Dear fellow aviation enthusiast, I am excited to share with you about the services of Florida RV-Ation. I specialize in quality constructed RV airframes and look forward to working with you on your RV aircraft. My prices are low compared to other builders, however my quality is of the highest standards. I offer builder assistance for the entire airframe as well as component build. I also offer other parts for RV's, and will custom build anything to your specs. If you or any of your fellow RV-Ators are interested in builder assistance for an RV by Florida RV-Ation, please call me at (561) 748-2429 or E-mail me at FLARV8N(at)AOL.COM. Thanks Again for choosing Florida RV-Ation. Scott Brown ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: RV-6 Left Hand Throttle
From: robjhall(at)Juno.com (Robert J. Hall)
Lothar, Kyle, and Alex, and interested lurkers, Since several people asked about my left hand throttle set-up, it may be of interest to others. The push-pull throttle and electric flap switch are mounted on a sub-panel attached to the lower left side of the instrument panel. The throttle is situated inboard far enough to comfortably get hand/wrist by the fuselage bulkhead. The outboard flap switch can be operated without removing hand from throttle. The sub-panel is fabricated from a piece of aluminum angle about 5 inches long. (I think the angle was left over from the fuel tank leading edge attachment stock.) I used nut plates to attach it to the bottom of the instrument panel and to a vertical piece of 3/4 x 3/4 angle riveted to the side skin. It makes a very rigid mount. The throttle came from ACS and, as I recall, has a standard 60-inch cable length. The cable routing makes a big S-curve from the sub-panel to where it goes through the firewall roughly on center-line, above the battery box. The mixture and carb heat controls are mounted along the bottom of the main instrument panel. The mixture is located within easy reach up and inboard of the throttle. Carb heat is inboard from the mixture. I don't remember the exact spacing between controls but it is about 2.5 inches. I made it comfortable for me. Not too close and not too far. Contact me off list if you need more detail. Regards, Bob Hall RV-6 N97RH. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark A. Van-Y" <mvanyrv6(at)swlink.net>
Subject: Single-axis Navaid Autopilot
Date: Nov 12, 1998
does any one on the list have info on the "Navaid" s/a autopilot unit. web address,cost,installation etc.any info would be helpful. thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wairau(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
Folks The behaviour of an aircraft in a dive must be put straight. The heavier the weight the higher the terminal velocity for a given dive angle, (another good reason for keeping weight to a minimum during aeros). Obviously the steeper the dive the higher the terminal velocity, so start reducing your dive angle asap (without exceeding G limits). For two IDENTICAL aeroplanes ( not "airplanes" please) diving at the same angle, the lighter one will actually accelerate quicker at low speeds but reaches its terminal velocity before the heavier one which accelerates slower initially but the acceleration lasts longer. Thats why heavier dive bombers always reached higher dive speeds (eventually). The excellent point that Vans is making I believe is that once you dive at say 60 degrees (and that is very steep) you now have additional accelerating term of approx 0.87G due to the weight vector acting along the "slope" (Sin theta term). By comparison in horizontal flight even from a stall the highest accelerating forces you will experience due to thrust alone are less than 0.2G. So diving at any angle is a whole new ball game for the uninitited, velocity increases VERY rapidly for a slick aeroplane like the RV. Dont also forget that Terminal velocity is only constant in IAS terms, so at altitude the TAS terminal velocity is higher, so you gobble up a lot more sky. Trust this helps Graham M Eagerly awaiting RV6A, and ever thankful to Fred Stucklen for sharing his RV. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Vacuum Pump flex coupling AD 98-23-01
Just got an AD notice affecting the flex coupling of Airborne dry air pumps. The AD was brought about by manufacturing defects of the B1-19-1 flexible coupling. This coupling was shipped between January 1, 1998 and October 13, 1998. "1. Any flexible coupling, P/N B1-19-1, incorporated on certain Airborne Dry pumps, conversion kits, and coupling kits, that has a date code resembling a clockface and indicating a manufacture date of either "12/97" or "5-6/98" should be replaced with P/N B1-7-3 flexible coupling (part of Park Hannifin flexible coupling kit, Airborne P/N 350);" "NOTE 2: The affected flexible coupling was shipped from Parker Hannifin between January 1, 1998, and October 13, 1998. Dry air pumps, conversion kits, or coupling kits that were installed or modified prior to January 1, 1998, would not incorporate the affected coupling. This AD allows the aircraft owner or pilot to check the maintenance records to determine whether the dry air pump, conversion kit, or coupling kit was installed or modified since January 1, 1998." The entire AD is too long to list. I have posted the information that I think most RVer would want to know. If you have a new 211CC Dry Air Pump S/N: 2AP1 through 10AP319, I suggest that you contact your supplier. == Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell Flying in So. CA, USA RV6flier(at)yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net>
Subject: Re: Single-axis Navaid Autopilot
Date: Nov 13, 1998
> >does any one on the list have info on the "Navaid" s/a autopilot unit. web >address,cost,installation etc.any info would be helpful. >thanks Mark, Per their brochure I received two weeks ago: Navaid Devices, Inc. no web site listed 641 N. Market Street Chattanooga, TN 37405 423-267-3311 Fax 423-756-6154 Price $1,300 assembled, tested and delivered in US or Canada International customers add cost of shipping Gary Baker RV-6 (Working on wings) N4GB (Reserved) Medina, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Install vs. Rivet
Date: Nov 12, 1998
Greetings folks, For some silly reason, even thus far into the project (RV8 fuselage), I find myself wondering if the term "install" is to be considered synonymous with "rivet". I'm working on the fore and aft baggage holds, and find some instructions that say "rivet this to that", then, it might read "install this to that"....meaning, cleco it for now and rivet later? There seems to be A LOT of areas in the fuselage where a guy could build himself into a corner quite easily. For me, this has resulted in many hours just spent in deep thought (yes, it occasionally happens) and studying plans to avoid just such an occurance. Hope I'm not the only one here! Any words of wisdom, oh mighty knights of the rivet gun? Brian Denk RV8 #379 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Epoxy for Canopy
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 13, 1998
I am getting ready to install the canopy on my RV-8. This has an epoxy skirt around the bottom, and the manual calls for using epoxy only. Where can I get this locally? I can find fiberglas resin easy enough, but am wondering where to go for epoxy. I will order it if I can't find it. The aeropoxy quart kit from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty for $16.00 looks good, has anyone else used this? Thanks. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Install vs. Rivet
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Brian; Having just finished the RV-8 fuselage, I would say that when it says to install it means to rivet or assemble permanently. I just simply completed each step in the manual, then checked it off and moved to the next step. The one thing I did different was went ahead and installed the gear; this actually put the fuse at just the right height for me to work in by leaning over into it. Wear a back brace though as it is hard on your lower back. Basically stick to the manual and try to visualize what you are doing overall, rather than focus on the one piece. Also, I did my studying before I went to bed, so when I started work the next morning, I knew exactly what to do. I also wrote down realistic goals for the next days work; what I thought I could accomplish. It is a good feeling to meet or exceed your goal for the day. Other days, you dont get as far. So far, in my opinion, once you get past those doggone 'landing gear boxes', it's all downhill from there. Have fun! Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA (cowling & fiberglass stuff) N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > >Greetings folks, > >For some silly reason, even thus far into the project (RV8 fuselage), >I >find myself wondering if the term "install" is to be considered >synonymous with "rivet". I'm working on the fore and aft baggage >holds, >and find some instructions that say "rivet this to that", then, it >might >read "install this to that"....meaning, cleco it for now and rivet >later? > >There seems to be A LOT of areas in the fuselage where a guy could >build >himself into a corner quite easily. For me, this has resulted in many >hours just spent in deep thought (yes, it occasionally happens) and >studying plans to avoid just such an occurance. Hope I'm not the only >one here! Any words of wisdom, oh mighty knights of the rivet gun? > >Brian Denk >RV8 #379 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark McGee" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Flap Brace
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Listers, How is the flap brace fitted around the rear spar stiffeners at the root end ? Also, how is it to be attached to the rear spar root doubler plate ? Does anyone have a picture of this they can E-Mail to me ? Mark McGee RV4 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: split-S from cruise ...
I am afraid you have just repeated a common error. All Aluminium alloy structures have a cycle life regardless of load (light loads just mean a longer life (exponentially, so if you halve the load you get four times the life). Lightly loaded steel structures do not and can have an infinite cycle life (this is known as the endurance limit). This is one of the trade offs we make for a light metal construction. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: split-S from cruise ... Date: 12-11-98 18:57 Yes, you can pull 6 Gs at aerobatic gross weight all day long, every day, up to the service life of the airframe. An airframe is designed to 150% of its intended load limit. In theory this should produce a structure with essentially infinite life, but that doesn't hold true in the real world. Repeated load cycles and fatigue take their toll. If I recall an old RVator article properly, service life for the RVs was estimated at 24,000 hours, or 12,000 hours with anodized spars. By way of comparision, the 1960s T-37s I flew had about 16,000 hours on them in 1995. These airplanes flew dawn to dusk five days a week and a weekend or two each month. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman tcraigst(at)ionet.net RV-4 64ST finishing remote oil cooler installation > >With all the talk lately about G's, and a bit curious myself as far as >safety goes... I was wondering since the RV is limit load 6G, can someone >fly all day, everyday doing 6G manouvers and have no worry? ( I know it >would be tough to do 6Gs all day!). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BSivori(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Re: RV Evaluators and Ferry Pilots?
Good Luck and Welcome on the RV - however I would not make the Cross Country trip alone, Try and find a a RV Pilot with some time and instrament rating under his belt. While the plane will have no problem going cross country - a low time pilot can run into some problems ( and even a high time pilot ) but with 2 pilots your odds are much better, and makes the trip fun vs WORK. In April I lost a friend 1300 Hours Total Time doing a 5 hour flight from Florida to New York, between the weather & being tired he did not make it. So Fly Safe BSivori(at)AOL.COM N929RV Reserved ( Fuse ) N15035 Seneca Owner ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Bolt torque
When torqueing a bolt that holds two pieces together, what do you do if you reach the bolt's torque limit before the two pieces have come completely together? I assume that you would continue until the pieces meet, then stop there. Is this correct? Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Install vs. Rivet
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com (cecil t hatfield)
Date: Nov 13, 1998
>Any words of wisdom, oh mighty knights of the rivet gun?< ((((( "Cleco until you have to rivet, period." ))))) writes: > >Greetings folks, > >For some silly reason, even thus far into the project (RV8 fuselage), >I >find myself wondering if the term "install" is to be considered >synonymous with "rivet". I'm working on the fore and aft baggage >holds, >and find some instructions that say "rivet this to that", then, it >might >read "install this to that"....meaning, cleco it for now and rivet >later? > >There seems to be A LOT of areas in the fuselage where a guy could >build >himself into a corner quite easily. For me, this has resulted in many >hours just spent in deep thought (yes, it occasionally happens) and >studying plans to avoid just such an occurance. Hope I'm not the only >one here! Any words of wisdom, oh mighty knights of the rivet gun? > >Brian Denk >RV8 #379 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Better check the fit of the two pieces. From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 8:06 AM Subject: RV-List: Bolt torque > >When torqueing a bolt that holds two pieces together, what do you do if you reach >the bolt's torque limit before the two pieces have come completely together? I >assume that you would continue until the pieces meet, then stop there. Is this >correct? >Moe Colontonio >moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Subject: Re: Single-axis Navaid Autopilot
Date: Nov 13, 1998
It is a heading hold/GPS tracker and wing leveler. It's cost is $1300. You can install the servo under the seat or in the wing, and you have a panel mounted instrument that can take place of your turn corridinator. (it has a ball in it already) Soon I will have an update on my website showing the installation..stay tuned.. You can call them at 423-267-3311 Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er Finish Kit is Here! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Thomas Nguyen <TNGUYEN(at)oss.oceaneering.com>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
Moe, That's not correct. If you reached the bolt's torque limit before the two pieces come together than you need to back off and use shim to fill the gap. DO NOT overtorque the bolt until the gap bottom out. T.Nguyen RV-6A Fuselage >>> Moe Colontonio 11/13/98 07:05AM >>> When torqueing a bolt that holds two pieces together, what do you do if you reach the bolt's torque limit before the two pieces have come completely together? I assume that you would continue until the pieces meet, then stop there. Is this correct? Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Chuck Brietigam <brietig(at)ibm.net>
Subject: Re: Epoxy for Canopy
VON L ALEXANDER wrote: > > I am getting ready to install the canopy on my RV-8. This has an epoxy > skirt around the bottom, and the manual calls for using epoxy only. Where > can I get this locally? I can find fiberglas resin easy enough, but am > wondering where to go for epoxy. I will order it if I can't find it. The > aeropoxy quart kit from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty for $16.00 looks > good, has anyone else used this? Von, I used a 3M product called DP 190. It's a structural adhesive and works great. It's used on both Pitts and Eagles with obvious results. Any excess can be cleaned off with acetone before it set without any harm to plexiglass, fiberglass, or aluminum. You can also use it to build fillets and later file or sand. Paint adherse to it extremely well. Enjoy Chuck Brietigam, RV-3, in the center of the sky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Archives and search engine
Date: Nov 13, 1998
For all of the FNGs and those who are computer challenged as I am. It can Be done! Today I actually attempted to find some thing in the archives and WAS ABLE TO DO SO! About two or three years ago I tried it and became lost in it all. It is now simple enough even for me. And if I can do it, anyone can. I've been prone to tell people that 'that is in the archives'. The last one regarding left hand throttle caused me to try it and see. Bingo, all kinds of stuff back to about 1994. Just typed in left & hand & throttle and it came up in a few seconds. Damned, I'm getting good on these computers. How does Matt know how to do that? His fingers must get tired of filing through that stuff so fast. Thanks Matt. John C Darby Jr. RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought Stephenville TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Moe, I hope you have checked to make sure that the nut hasn't come up against the shank of the bolt and the resistance there is where you are getting the torque. If that has happened, of course you need a shorter bolt length. If that is not the case, then it's up for grabs. John C Darby Jr. RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought Stephenville TX From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 07:23 Subject: RV-List: Bolt torque > >When torqueing a bolt that holds two pieces together, what do you do if you reach >the bolt's torque limit before the two pieces have come completely together? I >assume that you would continue until the pieces meet, then stop there. Is this >correct? >Moe Colontonio >moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
Date: Nov 13, 1998
>Folks > >The behaviour of an aircraft in a dive must be put straight. > >The heavier the weight the higher the terminal velocity for a given >dive >angle, (another good reason for keeping weight to a minimum during >aeros). > >Obviously the steeper the dive the higher the terminal velocity, so >start >reducing your dive angle asap (without exceeding G limits). > >For two IDENTICAL aeroplanes ( not "airplanes" please) diving at the >same >angle, the lighter one will actually accelerate quicker at low speeds >but >reaches its terminal velocity before the heavier one which accelerates >slower >initially but the acceleration lasts longer. Thats why heavier dive >bombers >always reached higher dive speeds (eventually). > >The excellent point that Vans is making I believe is that once you >dive at say >60 degrees (and that is very steep) you now have additional >accelerating term >of approx 0.87G due to the weight vector acting along the "slope" (Sin >theta >term). >By comparison in horizontal flight even from a stall the highest >accelerating >forces you will experience due to thrust alone are less than 0.2G. > >So diving at any angle is a whole new ball game for the uninitited, >velocity >increases VERY rapidly for a slick aeroplane like the RV. > >Dont also forget that Terminal velocity is only constant in IAS terms, >so at >altitude the TAS terminal velocity is higher, so you gobble up a lot >more sky. > >Trust this helps > >Graham M >Eagerly awaiting RV6A, and ever thankful to Fred Stucklen for sharing >his RV. > > > Thank you Gram, I knew I was in way over my head to word it properly when I made my post, but I wanted to point out that weight has many effects during aerobatics besides just load accelerations. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Chuck Brietigam <brietig(at)ibm.net>
Subject: B&C oil filter adapter
Has anyone with an RV-3 or an RV-4 installed a B&C oil filter adapter? Changing the upper engine oil screen every 25 hours is at best every messy and difficult to accomplish due to the limited engine compartment space of the RV-3. My concern with the B&C filter adapter is possible interference with the upper horizontal engine mount brace. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Chuck Brietigam, RV-3, in the center of the sky! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Dept of Silly Grins, aka First Flight
Congrats , After all that time waiting surely it was worth delaying until Veterans Day. Come up and see me some day. BTW I flew east to MO on Tuesday and was watching 270MPH on my GPS most of the way. Now I wish I had pushed it up to the firewall and tried for 300!! Just ot say I did it. Darndest tail wind I ever saw. Yet smooth flight 545 NM in about 2.5 hours. D Walsh ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com>
Subject: VM1000 Return flow transducer
I have just received an info pak from Vision Microsystems on all of their current gear. Their VM1000 has fuel flow info but does not mention a return flow transducer for injected applications. I have a call in to them again on this question, but I'm also wanting to get info from anyone that is running one of these for ther opinion on installation, support, operation, and the "neato" factor. Thanks, Ralph Capen RV6A Emp here - getting accessories ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery
Hi Jim, I have the Odyssey PC680 (same one as Van lists) in my Mazda Powered RV-6A. I replaced a Concord RG-25XC after one year in service. I got my Odyssey from a Motorcycle Supply Shop in Petersburg Va, for $104.00 +UPS. It weighs 15lbs or approx 7 1/2 lbs less than the Concord. I have only had it installed for 1 month, but as best I can tell it is equal or better in cranking power. According to the literature provided, its service life should be approx 50% better. It will fit inside the battery box, but is much smaller in width (3" as best I recall). I simply added an battery-retainer piece of angle on the opposite side of the battery box from the retainer for the Concord. I then build a wooden spacer to take up the resulting vacant space in the battery box and that is all there was to it. The batter terminals are different (smaller) and uses a socket head screw -10 size I believe. I did need to pace a washer on the screw to put throught the hole in the orginal battery cable leads to hold the lead. Since I use two batteries for my EFI and ignition, I wish I had know earlier as two odyessey batterys save 15lbs over the two Concords. Seeing as how one of my Concords developed a short in less than a year, the odyessey doesn't have to do much to be better. Ed Anderson anderson_ed(at)bah.com RV-6A Mazda Powered Flying > > Has anyone had any experience with the Odyssey Battey that Van now lists in > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: "Henry S. (Hank) Eilts" <eilts(at)ti.com>
Subject: Odyssey Battery Info
Hi folks, Odyssey batteries are made by Hawker Energy Products. Their web site is http://www.hepi.com They have a lot of info, both consumer and engineering info, on the odyssey batteries, starting at http://www.hepi.com/products/sli/index.htm FYI. Hank Eilts RV-6 tail taking too long, wing kit just arrived. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Brace
There is a good picture in the building manual, you must cut the flap and allow it to step up onto the stiffeners and the three cherrymax rivets into the doubler plates. I think thats what you are thinking aboutr, no?!At > >Listers, > >How is the flap brace fitted around the rear spar stiffeners at the root end >? Also, how is it to be attached to the rear spar root doubler plate ? > >Does anyone have a picture of this they can E-Mail to me ? > >Mark McGee >RV4 Wings > > > > > Dan Wiesel RV6a QB - controls/empennage mounting ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Seat Belt Latch
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Listers; In installing my AM-SAFE seat belts from Vans into my RV-8, I notice that with the crotch strap and the two shoulder harnesses slipped over the metal buckle, the latch will not engage, due to excess thickness of the three metal loops. Is this a defect, or am I doing this wrong? Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dipaula(at)pete.nit.disa.mil
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
> >For two IDENTICAL aeroplanes ( not "airplanes" please) diving at the > >same > >angle, the lighter one will actually accelerate quicker at low speeds > >but > >reaches its terminal velocity before the heavier one which accelerates > >slower > >initially but the acceleration lasts longer. Thats why heavier dive > >bombers > >always reached higher dive speeds (eventually). i don't understand this... if by identical you mean same configuration, size, drag, etc. (but different weights), why would the lighter one accelerate faster? drag (backwards force) on both will be the same at any particular speed... and will therefore have a greater effect on the plane with lower mass/weight. the same drag _force_ is a function of shape, cross-sectional area, coefficient of drag, and velocity, but is _not_ a function of mass; the planes should have the same drag force on them when moving at the same velocity. so the drag should have a greater deccelerative effect on the otherwise-identical plane with less mass (F=ma). (forward acceleration should be the same for both planes, 1G*sin(airplane's difference of angle from horizontal). in other words, the lighter plane should accellerate slower (presuming the only accelerative forces are gravity and drag). it would also have a lower terminal velocity than the heavier plane, but i don't know off the top of my head which one should reach TV first. -D- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Install vs. Rivet
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Let me add, in my case: Cleco until you have to rivet or until you run out of clecoes! Steve Soule Huntington, Vermont Still working on that RV-6A cabin frame ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
Moe, specificly what are you assembling. You generally should not exceed standard torques unless specified for the part as being acceptable. You hardware store junk is designed for a specific grip range. Generally we like to see 2-3 threads showing beyond the nut and, again, generally you should not nut. If you use the AC43-13 as a guide you will find it helpful for many rule of thumb comes from. What kind off torque wrench are you using by the way? You will find a wrench in the 30-200 INCH/ Lbs to be very INCH/lbs above that range for plugs, props, axles, and other heavy stuff. JR A&P ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Aeroplanes vs Airplanes...
In the United States "Airplane" is consisdered correct and acceptable terminology as opposed to "Aeroplane". Airplanes also have Instrument Panels not Dash Boards and in the USA airplanes have cowlings and automobiles have Hoods not Bonnets. A Bonnet is something young women wear to a picnic with their baskets in hand and boyfriends in tow. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
Very interesting: Of course Galileo and Highschool Physics 1 won't agree with you and a bomberaways outdives a fighter any day of the week. because it weighs more..Hmmmm JLB.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
> When torqueing a bolt that holds two pieces together, what do you do if you reach > the bolt's torque limit before the two pieces have come completely together? I > assume that you would continue until the pieces meet, then stop there. Is this > correct? Only if you don't mind the bolt possibly breaking later. Don't do this. Modify the joint with a shim or something. Alex Peterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com>
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
> > > >For two IDENTICAL aeroplanes ( not "airplanes" please) diving at the > > >same > > >angle, the lighter one will actually accelerate quicker at low speeds > > >but > > >reaches its terminal velocity before the heavier one which accelerates > > >slower > > >initially but the acceleration lasts longer. Thats why heavier dive > > >bombers > > >always reached higher dive speeds (eventually). > > i don't understand this... if by identical you mean same configuration, > size, drag, etc. (but different weights), why would the lighter one > accelerate faster? drag (backwards force) on both will be the same at > any particular speed... and will therefore have a greater effect on the > plane with lower mass/weight. the same drag _force_ is a function of shape, > cross-sectional area, coefficient of drag, and velocity, but is _not_ a > function of mass; the planes should have the same drag force on them when > moving at the same velocity. You might be forgetting the induced drag component, which does differ between the two planes, since the heavier plane will have a higher angle of attack, everything else equal. >so the drag should have a greater > deccelerative effect on the otherwise-identical plane with less mass (F=ma). > (forward acceleration should be the same for both planes, 1G*sin(airplane's > difference of angle from horizontal). True only if the induced drag is zero, i.e., wing loading zero (straight down, for example). At slow speeds, the induced drag, which is a function of wing loading (proportional to aircraft weight), is relatively high when compared to the parasitic drag. Because of this, the initial acceleration of the lighter aircraft will be more than the heavy aircraft, provided the wing loading is not zero. Straight down (zero wing loading), the initial acceleration of both aircraft will indeed be approximately equal. Alex Peterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Install vs. Rivet
Date: Nov 13, 1998
No, I never have to sit down and think while building my airplane ;-) The real trick is to be able to think BEFORE making a big error. Tom Craig-Stearman From: Brian Denk <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 12:23 AM Subject: RV-List: Install vs. Rivet > >Greetings folks, > >For some silly reason, even thus far into the project (RV8 fuselage), I >find myself wondering if the term "install" is to be considered >synonymous with "rivet". I'm working on the fore and aft baggage holds, >and find some instructions that say "rivet this to that", then, it might >read "install this to that"....meaning, cleco it for now and rivet >later? > >There seems to be A LOT of areas in the fuselage where a guy could build >himself into a corner quite easily. For me, this has resulted in many >hours just spent in deep thought (yes, it occasionally happens) and >studying plans to avoid just such an occurance. Hope I'm not the only >one here! Any words of wisdom, oh mighty knights of the rivet gun? > >Brian Denk >RV8 #379 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Aeroplanes vs Airplanes...
> >In the United States "Airplane" is consisdered correct and acceptable >terminology as opposed to "Aeroplane". Airplanes also have Instrument Panels >not Dash Boards and in the USA airplanes have cowlings and automobiles have >Hoods not Bonnets. A Bonnet is something young women wear to a picnic with >their baskets in hand and boyfriends in tow. JR And how would you like a swift "boot" in the "trunk?" ;^) Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Sorry about the bolt torque question everyone, the correct answer was sent to me off list by Al Mojzisik, and should have been obvious to me but it was very late. You must clamp the two pieces together and then torque the bolt. Thanks to all who responded Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 Page at: http://tabshred.com/moe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
Date: Nov 13, 1998
I really encourage people to learn a bit about the theory of bolts and bolted joints before getting to the stage where you're actually bolting bits together. You can make a lot of hideous mistakes with bolts. The best popular book I know of on the subject is "Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners, and Plumbing Handbook" Carroll Smith is a popular auto racing author and engineer, who explains mechanical engineering concepts in a straightforward (and sometimes entertaining) style. It's published by Motorbooks International and is available through the SAE. Might be available online, too. Another book with a good discussion of bolts, and of fatigue (a closely-related topic) is the "Sky Ranch Engineering Manual," by John Schwaner. It's available from RV-ation Bookstore (970) 887-2207 P.O. Box 270 Tabernash, CO 80478 USA http://www.rvbookstore.com/ Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com>
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Brian Lloyd writes: > > > ... is a no-no with our aircraft. But if you want a manuver that does the > same thing, try this: The Snowbirds use this in their solo routine all the time. I can't recall for sure, but I think they call it a Pretzel Reverse. Works like a charm. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
I hope not. A properly torqued bolt is at above 90% of ultimate strength. Over torquing runs the risk of breaking the bolt either immediately or in service as cracks open up to relieve the excess strain. Things to check. 1/ Is the bolt damaged (distorted threads ect), if so replace the bolt. A standard nut should spin freely on all but precision bolts. 2/ Are you using the right bolt, right thread for the part, or too long. If too long try an appropriate washer or two. 3/ Is the nut damaged (ditto) 4/ Is the bolt lightly lubricated to prevent galling and seizing. Note: Loctite thread lock will act as a lubricant until it sets. 5/ Does the part fit? If not find the right part. 6/ Is the part damaged or not correctly assembled? i.e.. internal components not properly engaged or distorted. 7/ Is the part supposed to be closed up? Flanges often have small gaps at the bolting points. 8/ Is there more than one bolt to be tightened, if so proceed by stepping around the bolts and torquing them up to say finger tight, 10%, 50%, and then 100%. 9/ The limit could be the component you are bolting i.e. a wooden prop. Aviation is one of the places where the comment of don't force it, get a bigger hammer, is usually untrue. Without knowing what you are bolting anything else is guess work. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RV-List: Bolt torque Date: 13-11-98 08:05 When torqueing a bolt that holds two pieces together, what do you do if you reach the bolt's torque limit before the two pieces have come completely together? I assume that you would continue until the pieces meet, then stop there. Is this correct? Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillJW(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Archives and search engine
So, tell the rest of us how to do it. hilljw(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 1998
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: Epoxy for Canopy
VON L ALEXANDER wrote: > > > .........the manual calls for using epoxy only. Where > can I get this locally? Hi Von: I'm sure no epoxy expert, but I bought some at the local marine dealer to fix a leak in my boat keel (sp?). It was called Marine-tex. It was kind of expensive, $24 for a 12 oz can, plus the catalyst and a roll of fiberglass cloth. It fixed the leak, however I have no idea if it would be appropriate for your application. martin shorman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: Re: Aeroplanes vs Airplanes...
In a message dated 11/13/98 12:09:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, JRWillJR(at)aol.com writes: << A Bonnet is something young women wear to a picnic with their baskets in hand and boyfriends in tow. JR >> I'M STAYING OUT OF THIS ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "tmjordan" <tmjordan(at)flash.net>
Subject: Left Elevator Riveting
Date: Nov 13, 1998
I am just finishing my empennage kit, and will be riveting the left elevator together this weekend. Reading the instructions, they call for using CS4-4 pop rivets on the last (outboard) 4 rivets on the E-606 rear elevator spar that the trim tab attaches to. My question is , how can I avoid these pop rivets on the top skin? Is it possible to backrivet this spar onto the top skin at the time the stiffeners are installed, and still form the trailing edge after this? I realize that the rivets that also attach the trim tab hinge will have to be done later, but would like to know anyone else's experience with using AN426 flush rivets to do this. Thanks, Mel Jordan, RV6A Empennage almost done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net>
Subject: Left hand throttle quaudrant
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Most of the aircraft I have flown with a stick have had the throttle quadrant on the left side ( stick in right hand, throttle in the left). I was fortunate enough to have flown a P 51 for several years and wanted to bring some of that old feeling back. I mounted a throttle, prop and mixture quad on the left side just below and forward of the instrument panel. This for me just seemed the natural way to go. I am really happy with it and plan to do the same thing on the 6A. Another benefit was by doing this I was able to eliminate the centre consul making it easier to get in and out and also allows me to swing my legs over for a stretch on a long cross country. Flying the RV right hand on the stick throttle in the left brings back a lot of wonderful memories, next best thing to the 51 and besides it burns a lot less fuel. The only down side is for someone flying it from the right side but really haven't found this to be a problem. They just tell the person in the left side what they want done. Anyone interested in this set up can contact me of the list. I have a photo of it. Eustace Bowhay RV 6 C-GHAY 20383 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Archives and search engine
Date: Nov 13, 1998
OK, I'll assume that you are as comp. challenged as I am, so will do this so that I can understand it: I used the mouse to move the arrow under: http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html and left clicked on it. It hooked my set up to the internet and came up with a page of the archives and instructions. It gave an option of the RVlist or some others, I left clicked on the RVlist. It came up with an area to type in and some instructions. I moved the arrow to the write in area and in my case, typed in: left @ hand @ throttle The @ is for 'and', (that you wanted all three of the words in your search, as left and hand and throttle. It has instructions for the 'or' as a '|' (I understand that this is called a pipe) . Had I used it, I assumed it would have been: left | hand | throttle meaning left or hand or throttle. Then I clicked on submit (or search, I forget), and in a few seconds it came up with a listing. Click on the blue part of the line listing and it brings up the original message. There was something there about the pages being in divided or three parts, I didn't get fancy, just left what was there. I put a space between left and @ and hand etc. Don't know if that is required or not, but it worked for me. For all of you who are knowledgeable of this stuff, my apologies for this long post. For those of you as dumb as I am, hope this helps. John C Darby Jr. RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought Stephenville TX > >So, tell the rest of us how to do it. >hilljw(at)aol.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Aeroplanes vs Airplanes...
> something young women wear to a picnic with their baskets in hand > and boyfriends in tow. JR Unless the boyfriend is Randy. Everywhere else in the world the young woman would stay home with mother. Peter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Nov 13, 1998
Subject: PLEASE READ - Super Weasel List Pruning...
[ Please read this complete message as it contains important information regarding the operation of the email Lists and the current subscription process. Thanks, Matt ] Dear Listers, I've been hard at work for the last two weeks on a number of new applications I refer to as "The Weasel". The Weasel's purpose is to prune the Lists of bogus email addresses. There are two ways in which I plan to implement the Weasel on the Lists - the Daily Weasel, and the Monthly Weasel. - The Daily Weasel - The Daily Weasel will be run once a day on the email box in which all of the bounced email is automatically sent to. This file can become quite large in only a short 24 hour period depending on how many bad email addresses there are on the Lists at any given time. For example, today Nov 13, there was over 5Mb of bounced email! The Daily Weasel parses all of the bounced email error messages in the bounce email box and generates a Majordomo 'unsubscribe' request for each bogus address that has caused 10 or more bounces. These unsubscribe requests are then processed the next time I do List subscription approvals - usually once or twice a day. Any addresses that are removed by the Daily Weasel will also be added to the Unsubscribe Web Page. This web page allows List members to check to see if they have been unsubscribed from the List if they suddenly stop receiving List messages. Address entries are listed on the page with the most recent at the top along with a date and time stamp indicating when it was removed, error message was. Hyperlinks are provided on this page that allow an unsubscribed member to resubscribe to the List of their choice when they are sure that their email problem has been resolved. The URL for this Unsubscribed Web Page is: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed/bouncing.cgi Please make a note of this site for future reference. A link to it is also available from the respective List Web Site as well. - The Monthly Weasel - While the Daily Weasel will no doubt go a long way to managing the excessive amount of bounced mail each day, there are still a few addresses that return bounce messages that do not include information sufficient to locate the address on one of the Lists. An example of this would be where someone has subscribed email address 'A' to the List, but then sets up an email forward to system 'B'. At some point, the user's email address at 'B' is removed, but the forward on system 'A' is not removed. When the List sends a message to 'A', the message is still automatically forwarded to system 'B'. Since the address at system 'B' no longer exists, system 'B' sends an error message back to the List server to report the problem but does *not* include the original email address of system 'A' in the message. In this scenario, there is no way to ever trace the bogus address! Enter the Monthly Super Weasel! Roughly once a month, I will be running the Super Weasel on all of the addresses in the Lists to "weasel out" all of these hard-to-find bogus email addresses. The Super Weasel sends an email message with the headers specially configured to insure that any bounces will come back to a specific email account setup to receive them. Also encoded into the Weasel Message is a unique "Weasel Serial Number" that identifies who the message was actually sent to even if the remote mailer obscures this information. The special email account is monitored by the Weasel's partner application, the "Post Weasel Processor (PWP)". When the PWP receives a bounce email back from the Super Weasel's email probe, it tries to find special Weasel Serial Number in the message, looks up the matching List email address, and automatically unsubscribes the address from any Lists it may happen to be on. An entry is also made in the "Unsubscribe Web Page" as described above. It is important to note that members should *never* respond directly to the Super Weasel's probes as it is highly likely that they're response will automatically unsubscribed from the List. The PWP will try to unsubscribe the incoming email address even if there isn't necessarily a Weasel Serial Number in the message. I've finished up all of the Weasel Applications tonight and have put them online. I've purged any of the old entries from the previous Unsubscribe Web Page since the format of the entries have changed. I have also ran the Daily Weasel on the previous 4 days of bounced email and it removed a number of addresses that are now listed on the web page. I also ran the Monthly Super Weasel a couple of days ago and these entries are also listed on the web page. Please have a look at the Unsubscribe Web Page and perhaps bookmark it for future reference. Again, the URL is: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed/bouncing.cgi - Your Contribution Support at Work - My ability to implement these and other new List maintenance tools is directly related to the increased system performance afforded by the most recent upgrades. The Weasel applications are CPU and network intensive and with the new Email system, they complete in a matter of minutes rather than hours. The new Email system is effectively 150 times faster than the previous system and it shows! I want to sincerely thank everyone that has made a generous contribution so far to support the List and most recent upgrade! If you haven't made your Contribution yet, won't you please do so today? Your generosity truly make this List possible. Thank you. You make make your Contribution using a Credit Card and the SSL Secure web site at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html or with a personal check to: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550 Thanks again for all of your support!! Matt Dralle RV, Kolb, and Zenith List Administrator Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: split-S from cruise ...
Does anyone recall any early experiments concerning the effects of gravity popular fast food shares a common name with. I think the important thing is not to perform a split-s in sleek aircraft such as the RV from cruise physics behind the fact, lest thy bend thine pretty toy. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Bolt torque and clamping
I tend to disagree with the idea of clamping misfiitted parts together to pull them into contact and then applying the torque to the fastener. Since when we torque a bolt we are actually loading or "stretching" the bolt, as soon as the clamps are released what ever portion of the loads the clamps were bearing will then be transferred to the fastener. While I do not disagree with that technique in practice I do not believe it to be technically correct nor am I trying to start a flame war. Some torque's are actually measured by a caliper fit at least somewhat prior to fastening for best results. Is this likely to ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Update on Insurance info....
The other day I sent a quote from AOPA, Skysmith and AVEMCo. I must amend that with the following: AOPA does not cover passengers in the 1st 35 hrs. AOPA does not cover accidents caused by part defects. Skymith has updated his quote; re $55,000 hull flight/ground 1 million/$100,000. covers with defects, and passengers after FAA 25 hr flyoff.....$1299. Excuse me Skysmith! Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, gotta get tach working before I fly. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque and clamping
Date: Nov 14, 1998
To clear up any mis-communications here, the parts I was bolting are in the landing gear box, and the gap is very thin, and can be closed with 2 fingers. The bolt is an AN-3 and gets 20-25 in-lbs of torque, that is why it torqued before closing the gap. Shimming here will not work because of the nature of the part (half is riveted, and 2 bolts go on the end.) I cannot replace it unless I want to rip apart the landing gear box that I paid Van's $17,000 to build for me (Quickbuild). The part was bolted from the factory, but I backed it off to double check the torque. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 Page at: http://tabshred.com/moe My page is now back up! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Landoll harmonic dampener
Listers, Has anyone installed this balancer on a 0-320 in a RV4 with a constant speed cowl and fixed pitch wood prop?? This uses a 2 1/4 in. prop extension. Looks rather tight in there because of the short distance between the front face of the flywheel and the cowl opening lip behind the spinner. Looks like it is possible but could cause a problem installing the lower cowl because of the then limited space between the front face of the dampener and the back of the spinner? Stew RV4 273SB Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Bolt torque and clamping
Moe, Sounds like there is enough flex in the structure to not be concerned about pulling it together with the fastener. It is always a good idea to keep a list of potential problem areas so you can monitor them during inspections. Keep on building! Stew RV4 273sb Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net>
Subject: Re: Bolt torque
Dear Moe, I think everyone here is very helpful in responding to this question. But the solution is in the reason for why we torque bolts. The "tightness", holding ability whatever one wants to call it is determined by how much stretches. In turn, this stretch load is exerted upon the head and the nut to which the material is held together. Using a wrench to measure the rotational load on the nut to determine how much the fastener stretches is by far a poor way to determine the fasteners' preload. Many uncontrollable factors can throw this astray. Dirty, dry, poor cut threads come to mind first. Many others that others have already mentioned. I totally agree that measuring torque is a very poor method of achieving this but it is the only thing we have to do this. Rule #1. Never overtorque anything. If you think you have to something's wrong. Clamping will not help either. The act of torquing the bolt is the clamp. Rule #2. If you tighten the nut and the parts don't come together, something's wrong. Bill Jaugilas Moe Colontonio wrote: > > > Sorry about the bolt torque question everyone, the correct answer was sent > to me off list by Al Mojzisik, and should have been obvious to me but it was > very late. You must clamp the two pieces together and then torque the bolt. > > Thanks to all who responded > > Moe Colontonio > moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net > Check out my RV-8 Page at: > http://tabshred.com/moe > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Listers, I am planning to make the entire seat floor removable so I can use this space for storing survival gear, emergency water and first aid kits. This area is pretty close to the center of gravity and out of the way. I do not like to have "stuff" clutter up the baggage compartment. I plan to rivet partitions just aft of the leghtenign holes of the ribs, so nothing can wander in to this area and interfer with the control lingages. My question to the list: Has anybody done this? How hard is it to move seats etc in and out? I am really after the experience factor. Thanks for any and all opinions. PS Alaska used to have a requirenment to carry survival gear. To our Alaskan Listers, is this still true? Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage|| ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Carroll Bird <"catbird(at)taylortel.com"(at)taylortel.com>
Subject: Re: B&C oil filter adapter
> > > Has anyone with an RV-3 or an RV-4 installed a B&C oil filter adapter? Yes, I have one on mine. My concern with the B&C filter adapter is possible > interference with the upper horizontal engine mount brace. B&C has an adaptor for the -4. It is 2" thick, made of anadized aluminum. It worked great on my -4. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: A20driver(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Landoll harmonic dampener
Anybody: Would like to hear opinions from users of Landoll damper....Thanks, ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Icom 200
Looking for feed back on the ICOM IC A200 panel radio.I will be also using the Flightcom FC 403 intercom. Would appreciate comments on these two items and if anyone has both , do they work together OK? Anything better out there for comperable cost? Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: split-S from final ...
All this split-s stuff reminds me of a little known instrument approach- It's called the Kevorkian Approach. I guess it more or less resembles an localizer approach, except you never descend below 2500' AGL. As you reach the FAF, roll inverted and proceed in a vertical manner to the TDZ. It is a very quick arrival, as you would never really pull out. I guess the "landing" could be called an impact. One good thing about this approach is that there is no way to screw it up! If the NTSB finds the wreckage more or less scattered near the end of the runway (heck- anywhere on the airport property), you got it right the first time! This approach is to be performed by professionals only, of course. C'mon fellas- lighten up! Check six! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Electric Trim Indicator Wiring Diagram?
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Hello Listers, Well I've done it. In spite of diligent efforts to not throw any paper away I have somehow lost track of whatever wiring diagram I ever had for the electric trim system. I can get most of it from Matts booklet on the governor but I can't find anything on the indicator. If anyone has this handy I would sure appreciate a fax of it to 505-887-9526 or a verbal description to my e-mail address or a snail-mail copy. Boy, this simple airplane has a lot of wires. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6Q N441LP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: BOLT TORQUE!
What a List! Where else are you going to get so many answers to such a simple question? AND nearly all of them right to boot! We have a collection of so many engineers and experts here that it is incredible. You not only get the answer to your question, you get the theory behind it and reference material in case you wish to become an expert yourself! Where else are you going to get this kind of stuff? In all fairness to you guys who answered absolutely theoretically correctly to Moe's bolt torque question it's only fair that I tell you that Moe and I talk on ICQ so I had a better idea of what he was trying to do. That is why I answered off list. I could see this thread coming! AGAIN! When I read his post last night I went and hid. I knew I was in for it! BUT HEY, that's what this is all about! We all put ourselves out there for peer review! That way we can come to some consensus and get it done right or as pointed out on the list by Stew, we can note that area for special attention during our annual inspection. (THAT was a really GOOD suggestion!) SOOOOO as you can probably see where I'm headed with this post, I think maybe we have had the definitive proof set before us that, yes, it's time for YOU to make that much delayed contribution to the RV-List Fund Raiser! You've had to learn something from this thread and the many others that go on here each day. Get it over with NOW! GIVE IT UP! You fought the good fight and held out long enough but it's now time to make that contribution if you already haven't! Credit Card contributions can be made at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Or send a check to: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551 Have a good weekend and don't forget to vote! I need to get out more! AL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Subject: Re: Epoxy for Canopy
>I'm sure no epoxy expert, but I bought some at the local marine dealer >to fix a leak in my boat keel (sp?). It was called Marine-tex. It was >kind of expensive, $24 for a 12 oz can, plus the catalyst and a roll of >fiberglass cloth. It fixed the leak, however I have no idea if it would >be appropriate for your application. > Please don't use this product on your canopy prior to testing it on scrap. I've used Marine-Tex (on my Boston Whaler) and, even though I don't have the can with me, I think it may be polyester based. This WILL destroy your canopy if it comes in contact with it. Also, Marine-Tex is a royal pain in the butt to sand. When it dries, it is as hard as a rock. For my fiberglass work (RV-6A), I used AeroPoxy bough from ASS. During the winter months, I used the West system, available from marine stores. The West system has a hardener that cures during cold weather. All of my fiberglassing was with epoxy based resins. Hope this helps. Scott Gesele N506RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Dahl" <dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net>
Subject: Propeller For Sale
Date: Nov 14, 1998
I have one Felix Propeller for sale. It is a 68x75 designed for a 160hp O-320. It was flown for less than 10 hours and is like new. The price is $250. If interested, contact me off the list. Christopher Dahl RV-4 Sutter Creek, CA dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: BOLT TORQUE!
You mention engineers and experts, I'm thinking of building an RV-6A, but I'm neither of the two. Am I biting off more than I can chew? Al Mojzisik wrote: > > What a List! Where else are you going to get so many answers to such a > simple question? AND nearly all of them right to boot! We have a collection > of so many engineers and experts here that it is incredible. You not only > get the answer to your question, you get the theory behind it and reference > material in case you wish to become an expert yourself! Where else are you > going to get this kind of stuff? > > In all fairness to you guys who answered absolutely theoretically correctly > to Moe's bolt torque question it's only fair that I tell you that Moe and I > talk on ICQ so I had a better idea of what he was trying to do. That is why > I answered off list. I could see this thread coming! AGAIN! When I read > his post last night I went and hid. I knew I was in for it! > > BUT HEY, that's what this is all about! We all put ourselves out there for > peer review! That way we can come to some consensus and get it done right > or as pointed out on the list by Stew, we can note that area for special > attention during our annual inspection. (THAT was a really GOOD suggestion!) > > SOOOOO as you can probably see where I'm headed with this post, I think > maybe we have had the definitive proof set before us that, yes, it's time > for YOU to make that much delayed contribution to the RV-List Fund Raiser! > You've had to learn something from this thread and the many others that go > on here each day. Get it over with NOW! GIVE IT UP! You fought the good > fight and held out long enough but it's now time to make that contribution > if you already haven't! > > Credit Card contributions can be made at: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html > > Or send a check to: Matt Dralle > PO Box 347 > Livermore, CA 94551 > > Have a good weekend and don't forget to vote! I need to get out more! AL > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "STEVE WHITE" <SGWHITE(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Update on Insurance info....
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Hi Ron, I have tried several times to drop you an E-mail but I keep fowling up your address and my message just gets bounced. So I thought I would just attach a note to your message. I have been noting with interest your progress. Sounds like your getting close to flying. Have you done your taxi test yet? What kind of bugs are you having to work out? We have sold the house and moved back to my manufactured home. I have moved the plane temporarily to the Scappoose airport. So I am unable to put in as much time on it as I would like. They should be breaking ground for the house down at Independece the end of this month. We are waiting for the building permit right now. I have installed the wings and drilled the rear spar attachment. Still working on the wiring and attaching wingtips. Keep us updated on your progress. I am excited for you. Good luck Ron Steve White > From: Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Update on Insurance info.... > Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 12:35 AM > > > The other day I sent a quote from AOPA, Skysmith and AVEMCo. > > I must amend that with the following: > > AOPA does not cover passengers in the 1st 35 hrs. > AOPA does not cover accidents caused by part defects. > > Skymith has updated his quote; re $55,000 hull flight/ground > 1 million/$100,000. covers with defects, and passengers after FAA > 25 hr flyoff.....$1299. Excuse me Skysmith! > > Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q, gotta get tach working before I fly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: The Big Bite!
Michael, Biting off more than you can chew? NOT AT ALL. My own degree is in accounting! Now there's a real usefull bunch of knowledge! You can do pretty much anything you set your mind to so get at it. If you want it bad enough, then GO FOR IT! You always have the list to answer any of those tough questions you might have. This thing even reaches into some pretty remote places on Earth where people are building RV's. The people here are always MORE than happy to HELP and give you some guidance and will even throw in an occasional oppinion! NOW GET GOING! AL > >You mention engineers and experts, I'm thinking of building an RV-6A, but I'm >neither of the two. Am I biting off more than I can chew? > >Al Mojzisik wrote: > >> >> What a List! Where else are you going to get so many answers to such a >> simple question? AND nearly all of them right to boot! We have a collection >> of so many engineers and experts here that it is incredible. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: B&C oil filter adapter
> My concern with the B&C filter adapter is possible >> interference with the upper horizontal engine mount brace. The very BEST source of answers for questions like this is call the guy who makes 'em . . . he'll be glad to talk to you and he'll put out the straight skinny . . . Call Bill at 316.283.8000 or fax 316.283.7400 Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: cost Survey
I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. How much did you spend on the firewall forward? How much did you spend on Avionics? How much did it coast to finish the plane (-engine and avionics?) What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? Thank you for your reply in advance Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Odyssey Battery
> >Hi Jim, > I have the Odyssey PC680 (same one as Van lists) in my Mazda Powered >RV-6A. I replaced a Concord RG-25XC after one year in service. I got >my Odyssey from a Motorcycle Supply Shop in Petersburg Va, for $104.00 >+UPS. It weighs 15lbs or approx 7 1/2 lbs less than the Concord. I >have only had it installed for 1 month, but as best I can tell it is >equal or better in cranking power. According to the literature >provided, its service life should be approx 50% better. Yes, but it's a much smaller battery with respect to capacity. The RG-25 is a 25 a.h. battery while the PC680 figures out at about 15 a.h. Funny thing about lead-acid batteries, they ALL come to about 1 a.h. per pound give or take an ounce or so. >Since I use two batteries for my EFI and ignition, I wish I had know >earlier as two odyessey batterys save 15lbs over the two Concords. >Seeing as how one of my Concords developed a short in less than a year, >the odyessey doesn't have to do much to be better. Did you talk to Concord about the failure? Two 25's were indeed too much for a dual battery installation . . . a pair of 15's or 12's is much more appropriate. Just want to be sure our readers understand that the "lighter" battery from Van's is on the same order of performance as other RG batteries in the 12-15 a.h. class and that they're not an apples-apples replacment for a 25 a.h. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: ELT Antenna
com> > >I have an ACK 450 ELT that has about a 2 foot antenna for it. (this is in >addition to the portable telescopic one) Are they all supposed to be this >long? Or is there a short, stubby, xponder type antenna that will work? > Antennas are cut to specific lengths for their operating frequency. They MAY contain "loading" circuitry that can shorten their lengths (some hand held transceivers have shortened "loaded" antennas). A transponder antenna is good for 1050 MHz only. The normal length antenna for a popular hand held and install it for the ELT antenna but it mounts with a BNC connector that would be outside and exposed to the elements. . . . ya can't fool with mother nature . . . physics rules. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Elec Trim failure
>If I ran the trim switch in either direction I could hear the relay clicking. >This indicated to me that the switch and the relay were both working. I >removed the servo from the elevator thinking I had the culprit. I pluged a >volt meter into each hot lead going into the servo and had my wife actuate the >trim switch in each direction. Ah I must be right im showing 12volts at both >leads. this is because a voltmeter takes a very few microamperes of current to sample the measurement of interest . . . >Now with the servo in hand I plugged it directly into a battery and ran >it in both directions several times with not ever a skip or a sputter. Now >this to me was confusing,( some what of a relief since the new servo packages >run around $200.00) never the less everything checked out good. > I talked to an R&E at work (radio electrician) and he suggested that I wasent >getting the full amperage to the servo. A poor vernacular for stating that relay contact resistance was high . . . corroded because the current flowing in the motor leads is very low . . . too low to burn away thin films of corrosion with each operation. > In other words a relay problem. To >make a long story a little shorter I purchased a new relay from Mac (Menzimer >I think it is now). I installed it on the airplane and it has worked perfectly >since. Hopefully if some one out there is having the same trouble or has the >same trouble this will help make things a little easier. The relay cost around >$25.00 not nearly as bad as making the $200.00 mistake. In some situations like this, I install a 10 uF crossover capacitor (a electrolytic capacitor designed for AC service) in series with a 10 ohm resistor in parallel with the trim motor. This little circuit causes a very short, 1 amp pulse of current to flow in the relay contacts each time you hit the trim switch . . . the contacts stay clean and will probably run the lifetime of the airplane. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: BOLT TORQUE!
Hehe, sorry Al, I thought I was doing you a favour by giving credit where it was due! I can't even count how many times I've had to force parts into place to make them fit, or run a drill through a hole a second time. I had to stand on my rudder axle to get the last bolt in, even though I drilled and riveted it with the same axle in place and it fit fine. Now my question for the list: Am I the ONLY one out there that is not building a "perfect" airplane or am I the only one admitting it? Does everyone else get a perfect fit on every assembly? Building realistically, not theoretically, Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://tabshred.com/moe Page is up and running! Al Mojzisik wrote: > > What a List! Where else are you going to get so many answers to such a > simple question? AND nearly all of them right to boot! We have a collection > of so many engineers and experts here that it is incredible. You not only > get the answer to your question, you get the theory behind it and reference > material in case you wish to become an expert yourself! Where else are you > going to get this kind of stuff? > > In all fairness to you guys who answered absolutely theoretically correctly > to Moe's bolt torque question it's only fair that I tell you that Moe and I > talk on ICQ so I had a better idea of what he was trying to do. That is why > I answered off list. I could see this thread coming! AGAIN! When I read > his post last night I went and hid. I knew I was in for it! > > BUT HEY, that's what this is all about! We all put ourselves out there for > peer review! That way we can come to some consensus and get it done right > or as pointed out on the list by Stew, we can note that area for special > attention during our annual inspection. (THAT was a really GOOD suggestion!) > > SOOOOO as you can probably see where I'm headed with this post, I think > maybe we have had the definitive proof set before us that, yes, it's time > for YOU to make that much delayed contribution to the RV-List Fund Raiser! > You've had to learn something from this thread and the many others that go > on here each day. Get it over with NOW! GIVE IT UP! You fought the good > fight and held out long enough but it's now time to make that contribution > if you already haven't! > > Credit Card contributions can be made at: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html > > Or send a check to: Matt Dralle > PO Box 347 > Livermore, CA 94551 > > Have a good weekend and don't forget to vote! I need to get out more! AL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: BOLT TORQUE!
No way, any dope can do this, you just have to be persistant and patient, single, play in the NBA, oh, sorry, the NBA job can wait until it's time to buy the engine. Anyway, this stuff is not hard, just get started, and in no time at all you'll be over-torqueing bolts with the best of us! If I can do this, anyone can, just ask Scott McDaniels about all the stupid questions I email him. BTW Scott, my brake cylinder arms are the correct distance from the floor, I had them upside down when I measured the first time! Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 page at: http://tabshred.com/moe michael brown wrote: > You mention engineers and experts, I'm thinking of building an RV-6A, but I'm > neither of the two. Am I biting off more than I can chew? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Robert Graves <rlgbee(at)fnbnet.net>
Subject: Voltage
Can anyone inform me of the nominal voltage developed by a Nickle Metal Hydride cell? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: ignition problems
One of the trade-offs of living in the sticks is that there aren't any good A&Ps within at least 60-70 miles. So let me throw a problem out to the group and see if someone can point me in the right direction. I always do my mag check twice during a run-up, and today I'm glad I did. The first time it went fine at about 75 rpm drop on each. I then went through everything else. Somewhere through it all (I think while coming down for an idle check) I heard a light pop. I didn't think much of it as the engine sometimes misses as I come way down on power. Then on my second mag check, the right side became very rough, losing 3-400 rpm and sputtering badly. I also began to notice what seemed like an electrical burning smell, although no smoke was visible. Aggressive leaning did not help. Nor did 3-4 minutes runup time at high rpm. I don't have an engine monitor (just a mechanical EGT on the two back cylinders), so I couldn't tell if it was merely a bad plug. I pulled the cowl and without removing the mag all looked normal, including all the leads being tight. The smell was stronger, indicating to me that it did originate from in front of the firewall. I appreciate any suggestions, including that of trashing the 1940's vintage magneto system and taking the opportunity to go electronic. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com
Subject: Re: ignition problems
Date: Nov 14, 1998
> >One of the trade-offs of living in the sticks is that there aren't any >good A&Ps within at least 60-70 miles. So let me throw a problem out to >the group and see if someone can point me in the right direction. > >I always do my mag check twice during a run-up, and today I'm glad I >did. The first time it went fine at about 75 rpm drop on each. I then >went through everything else. Somewhere through it all (I think while >coming down for an idle check) I heard a light pop. I didn't think much >of it as the engine sometimes misses as I come way down on power. Then >on my second mag check, the right side became very rough, losing 3-400 >rpm and sputtering badly. I also began to notice what seemed like an >electrical burning smell, although no smoke was visible. Aggressive >leaning did not help. Nor did 3-4 minutes runup time at high rpm. I >don't have an engine monitor (just a mechanical EGT on the two back >cylinders), so I couldn't tell if it was merely a bad plug. I pulled the >cowl and without removing the mag all looked normal, including all the >leads being tight. The smell was stronger, indicating to me that it did >originate from in front of the firewall. > >I appreciate any suggestions, including that of trashing the 1940's >vintage magneto system and taking the opportunity to go electronic. > >Andy > I had a similiar problem with my RV-6 shortly after the first flight. It would usually have a 50 to 70 RPM drop but then it dropped about 300 RPM on the left mag and was very rough. I checked the mag and found a slight crack in the back of the mag so replaced the mag. Still had the problem. Then I replaced the plug harness. While doing that I found that one of the wires had been pinched and almost cut through. That wire was grounding out and not firing the plug. I think a method of finding the errant cylinder (plug) is to run the engine for a few seconds (I'm sure not as long as a minute) and then shut down. The cylinder that wasn't firing will have a cooler exhaust pipe. John Ammeter Seattle WA USA 1975 JH-5 RV-6 (sold 4/98) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Landoll harmonic dampener
>Anybody: Would like to hear opinions from users of Landoll dampener Jim: I run one on my 0-320 driving a Warnke wooden prop. I LIKE it. Some folks say they have had it on and off and can't tell the difference. I have only had it on and I think it can't HELP but smooth the engine pulses out. It also puts weight where you want it: up front. I have seen engines without the dampener jerk to a stop and it makes something in my stomach wrench every time I see it. Can't be good for an engine to do that. I think wood props run smoother at cruise anyway (just my opinion) but the dampener makes it run even smoother. I usually cruise at 2400-2450 (unless I really want to get somewhere fast) and there is little fuselage vibration. Even at the higher RPMs it is smooth. That is probably a combination of several things: the Dynafocal mount, the wood prop and the dampener. Just a small sample of one opinion ..... Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q First year anniversary: what a GREAT year of flying! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com>
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Mike, Most of the really worth-while things I have done in my life I never would have started if I had known how much work and/or money they would take. When you are adding up the costs versus benefits, don't forget to factor in the intangible satisfaction of not just having done it, but in the doing of it. If you don't think you will enjoy the process ... Terry RV-8 rudder, wings coming > >I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A > >I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. >How much did you spend on the firewall forward? >How much did you spend on Avionics? >How much did it coast to finish the plane (-engine and avionics?) >What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary Baker" <gtbaker(at)bright.net>
Subject: Re: New Builder (Was: BOLT TORQUE!)
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Mike, > >You mention engineers and experts, I'm thinking of building an RV-6A, but I'm >neither of the two. Am I biting off more than I can chew? No, not at all! I am neither, I just love flying. I have never built anything before in my life, except for my son's Pedal Eagle plane, which was also a kit-built. Just keep asking questions, get involved with your local EAA Chapter, use the Chapter's Tech Counselor, and when almost done, get with a Flight Advisor. My friend who got me started in this, having built an RV-4, told me I would run the whole gamut of feelings, from the highest of highs to the lowest, ready to chuck the whole thing. I haven't hit either extreme yet, but I have been frustrated and also elated, as well as proud of what I have accomplished so far. Don't give up the kit! Gary Baker RV-6 (Working on wings) N4GB (Reserved) Medina, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: Propeller For Sale
Help!!! I need the opinion of a few engineers and experts. I'm brand new to the RV-6A, I'm far from wealthy, and wondering if this prop will work well on the RV-6A? It will be a year before I build the firewall forward, but if this prop is a good deal I'd like to jump on it now. Opinions??? Chris Dahl wrote: > > I have one Felix Propeller for sale. It is a 68x75 designed for a 160hp > O-320. It was flown for less than 10 hours and is like new. The price is > $250. > If interested, contact me off the list. > > Christopher Dahl > RV-4 > Sutter Creek, CA > dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: Propeller For Sale
At Van's web site I saw a RV6 on floats. Does anyone else know anything about this plane? Chris Dahl wrote: > > I have one Felix Propeller for sale. It is a 68x75 designed for a 160hp > O-320. It was flown for less than 10 hours and is like new. The price is > $250. > If interested, contact me off the list. > > Christopher Dahl > RV-4 > Sutter Creek, CA > dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Voltage
> >Can anyone inform me of the nominal voltage developed by a Nickle Metal >Hydride cell? Basically the same an Ni-Cad . . . they start out at 1.35 volts and are considered essentially "empty" at 1.1 volts. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: Mac Indicator Diagram Request
Date: Nov 14, 1998
I would like to cancel my request for a Mac indicator wiring diagram. I found mine. Thank you to anyone who may have tried to round it up. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Landoll harmonic dampener
<< Anybody: Would like to hear opinions from users of Landoll damper....Thanks, >> Jim, I have ran with and without one on my 4. I really cant tell the difference in the air. It does help durring engine shut down. The engine doesent just slam to a stop. And the weight is definatly in the right place. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Re: Icom 200
I am using the Icom panel mount, and I think it is a real good radio. I'm also using the built in intercomm option, so I couldn't comment on the other intercomm. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4131rb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: cost Survey
<< I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A >> Mike, If in fact its a bare bones RV. I think if you figure the airframe to be one third of the total cost you will be in the ball park. Ryan Bendure Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ammeterj(at)home.com
Subject: Re: Propeller For Sale
Date: Nov 14, 1998
> >At Van's web site I saw a RV6 on floats. Does anyone else know anything about this >plane? > contact Eustace Bowhay. He's the builder of that aircraft. "Eustace Bowhay" John Ammeter Seattle WA USA 1975 JH-5 RV-6 (sold 4/98) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVGEM(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Archives and search engine
appreciation to John Darby. There's more computer illiterate types out here than you might think ! I'll give your instructions a try out later. Thanks again. G-RVEE Waiting for my paper to be processed. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: Icom 200
>Looking for feed back on the ICOM IC A200 panel radio.... Peter: I have the A200 and really like it. It has quite a few nice features like 9 preset channels and flip/flop active to standby ability. I have both hooked to my control stick and rarely have to take my hands off the stick to change frequencies. Really nice. It also, now that I have my antenna working right, seems to broadcast well. I can pick up transmissions from many miles away. I chose the radio in the first place as it was pretty thin and fit into my panel better than any other out at the time. ICOM has a good reputation. I think King has a spin-off of theirs. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Propeller For Sale
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Hi Chris, I am interested in the propeller for $250. I can have tjhe money to you about 15 minutes after you call me on the phone and tell me its a deal. Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks, CA (805) 375-2660 writes: > >I have one Felix Propeller for sale. It is a 68x75 designed for a >160hp >O-320. It was flown for less than 10 hours and is like new. The >price is >$250. >If interested, contact me off the list. > >Christopher Dahl >RV-4 >Sutter Creek, CA >dahlhouse(at)cdepot.net > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent)
Subject: rudder oil canning
I just got my rudder into the V bock jig for the first time and clecoed it together (the end ribs aren't drilled yet and the skin hasn't been drilled to the spar). There's an area on the lower right side that oil cans in when I push on it. Total movement of the surface is probably a tad less than 0.10 inch. Doesn't look too bad. Sounds pretty bad. I experimented with clecoing it in different order hoping to shift the skin around a bit, but that didn't work. My question is, is this serious enough to try to do anything about? Is there anything I can do about it? I have thoughts ot RTVing some sort of brace into the skin at that place. It would be pretty bad if it ever came loose, though. Any suggestions? Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: ignition problems
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Check the capacitors in the mags. Probably the right mag has a bad cap, but you copuld have the switch wired wrong. From: winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 2:03 PM Subject: RV-List: ignition problems > >One of the trade-offs of living in the sticks is that there aren't any >good A&Ps within at least 60-70 miles. So let me throw a problem out to >the group and see if someone can point me in the right direction. > >I always do my mag check twice during a run-up, and today I'm glad I >did. The first time it went fine at about 75 rpm drop on each. I then >went through everything else. Somewhere through it all (I think while >coming down for an idle check) I heard a light pop. I didn't think much >of it as the engine sometimes misses as I come way down on power. Then >on my second mag check, the right side became very rough, losing 3-400 >rpm and sputtering badly. I also began to notice what seemed like an >electrical burning smell, although no smoke was visible. Aggressive >leaning did not help. Nor did 3-4 minutes runup time at high rpm. I >don't have an engine monitor (just a mechanical EGT on the two back >cylinders), so I couldn't tell if it was merely a bad plug. I pulled the >cowl and without removing the mag all looked normal, including all the >leads being tight. The smell was stronger, indicating to me that it did >originate from in front of the firewall. > >I appreciate any suggestions, including that of trashing the 1940's >vintage magneto system and taking the opportunity to go electronic. > >Andy > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Lothar, I mounted my seat floor and baggage compartment floor with screws and nutplates. No particular reason other than it seemed like it might be useful for future inspection or mounting the strobe power supply, ELT or whatever. I also do not have an aversion to nutplates, I actually like putting them in (weird, huh?). I don't know that I'd want my survival gear under there though... you'd wear yourself out taking out all the screws without a power driver. There's a bunch. This is a structural area so I would not use quarter-turn or other quick release fasteners. Only a few problem areas: the center flap bearing block sits on top of and bolts thru both floor pieces, I used nutplates for them; the electric flap housing attaches thru the seat floor, again more nutplates; the seat attach hinges need to be positioned carefully, I positioned them to match the screws into the floor ribs where I could; the baggage sides normally go on top of the floor with the nutplates riveted to the floor, I reversed that so the floor comes out easier. The problems are minor but need some thought. It's a fair amount of extra (and some will argue, unnecessary) work at a time when you're anxious to get the fuselage nailed together. It was worth it to me but your mileage may vary. Regards, Greg Young RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy Listers, I am planning to make the entire seat floor removable so I can use this space for storing survival gear, emergency water and first aid kits. This area is pretty close to the center of gravity and out of the way. I do not like to have "stuff" clutter up the baggage compartment. I plan to rivet partitions just aft of the leghtenign holes of the ribs, so nothing can wander in to this area and interfer with the control lingages. My question to the list: Has anybody done this? How hard is it to move seats etc in and out? I am really after the experience factor. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Louise Coats <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Landoll harmonic dampener
> >Anybody: Would like to hear opinions from users of Landoll damper....Thanks, > I have the damper that has the silicone in it as well. 0-320-D1A with a 70 X 70 Warnke prop. I did without and with tests several years ago and got an increase in rpm, smoother operation and as others had noted not the sudden stop when the mixture is pulled. Plus the weight is forward, 11 lbs for memory which was useful as the RV6 is 1024 lbs and eneded u[ with an aft c of g compared to Van's figures. Others have suggested just to get the metal ring. Probably cheaper. L.Coats 287hr RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: "perfect" airplane
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Moe, You are not alone! I'm building a 30 ft airplane... you know, it'll look great from 30 ft. I figure if the Feds don't like my photo-only builders log as proof that I built it, I'll point out some of the flaws. No one would pay a professional builder for my craftsmanship. Regards, Greg Young RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy Now my question for the list: Am I the ONLY one out there that is not building a "perfect" airplane or am I the only one admitting it? Does everyone else get a perfect fit on every assembly? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lycoming Limits
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 14, 1998
In programming my engine monitor parameters, I am wondering where to find the hi-lo temperature and pressure limits for oil pressure, oil temp, CHT, voltage and fuel pressure? This is for the O-360-A1A. Thanks. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs
Date: Nov 14, 1998
> From: Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs > Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 5:24 AM > > > Listers, I am planning to make the entire seat floor removable so I can use > this space for storing survival gear, emergency water and first aid kits. > This area is pretty close to the center of gravity and out of the way. I > do not like to have "stuff" clutter up the baggage compartment. > Lothar, I don't think you will really gain that much storage in this area . > > My question to the list: Has anybody done this? How hard is it to move > seats etc in and out? I am really after the experience factor. > > I am not aware of anyone doing it. . My own personal opinion is not to do this. This is a structural box like spar which your wing spars attach to. I think your idea would threaten the integrity of this whole assembly. I would suggest you phone Van's for their opinion. > > Some builders have put storage in the wing tips for light items such as sleeping bags and/or light tents. Another option if you are building a 6 is to install a light tube behind the baggage bulkhead to hold skiis or fishing pole. If you will be installing a C/S prop this rearward weight should not be a problem, but always keep C of G in mind. > > > Best Regards Ken Hoshowski C-FKEH RV6> First flight Sept 8/93 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Icom 200
Date: Nov 14, 1998
> From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Icom 200 > Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 6:00 AM > > > Looking for feed back on the ICOM IC A200 panel radio.I will be also > using the Flightcom FC 403 intercom. > > Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto ) > > Peter I helped a friend install the IC 200 and it has probably the best audio I have heard. I was impressed with it. I have four ICOM Amateur (ham) radio's and have had good service from them all>. Bear in mind that often radio's get blamed for poor operation when it's actually poor antenna installation. I presently have a King which has given me good service' but I wouldn't turn down an ICOM either. Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH Salmon Arm British Columbia> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: "M.Mckenna" <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RPM Restriction
Had two Sensenich reps speak at my local EAA chapter 690 meeting last night. The rep talked about the prop restriction for the Sensenich/O-320 Lyc. He claimed the second order mode of objectionable vibration fell between 2600-2690 RPM. He said that above that RPM would be issues for Lycoming redline. I was not able to stay and talk at length with him. I am posting what was said because it contradicts some other info posted on the list some weeks (or was it months) back. That post, if I remember correctly, stated a Sensenich rep. claimed the 2600 RPM restriction was to protect us from possible tach errors and the true problem was at 2700 RPM. Based on what the rep I listened to said, I would heed the 2600 RPM restriction with an accurate tach unless this contradiction was resolved to your satisfaction by Sensenich. He informed us the prop WOULD FAIL if operated in the 2600-2690 RPM range, but could not predict when it would fail. Just passing this info on, please refer questions to Sensenich. Mike Mckenna (mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net) RV-8 wings Lawrenceville, Ga. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Seat Belt Latch
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Von, I bought my belts from aircraft spruce ( Van"s didn't carry them when I needed them) and I had the same problem. I just got around to installing the crotch belt last summer. I had to file about 1/8 of an inch off the female buckle to allow the male end to get in far enough to latch on the two raised catches. Kind of hard to explain if you don't have the parts in front of you. Please Email me direct if I have not explained this adequately. Ken Hoshowski C-FKEH RV6 First flight Sept 8/93 > From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Seat Belt Latch > Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:25 AM > > > Listers; > In installing my AM-SAFE seat belts from Vans into my RV-8, I notice that > with the crotch strap and the two shoulder harnesses slipped over the > metal buckle, the latch will not engage, due to excess thickness of the > three metal loops. Is this a defect, or am I doing this wrong? > Von Alexander > RV-8 N41VA > N41VA(at)juno.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs
Date: Nov 14, 1998
How easy will it be to get to when you need if for survival? Will the area crumple and lock in the very tools you need? From: Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 5:55 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs > >Lothar, >I mounted my seat floor and baggage compartment floor with screws and >nutplates. No particular reason other than it seemed like it might be >useful for future inspection or mounting the strobe power supply, ELT or >whatever. I also do not have an aversion to nutplates, I actually like >putting them in (weird, huh?). I don't know that I'd want my survival gear >under there though... you'd wear yourself out taking out all the screws >without a power driver. There's a bunch. This is a structural area so I >would not use quarter-turn or other quick release fasteners. > >Only a few problem areas: the center flap bearing block sits on top of and >bolts thru both floor pieces, I used nutplates for them; the electric flap >housing attaches thru the seat floor, again more nutplates; the seat attach >hinges need to be positioned carefully, I positioned them to match the >screws into the floor ribs where I could; the baggage sides normally go on >top of the floor with the nutplates riveted to the floor, I reversed that so >the floor comes out easier. The problems are minor but need some thought. > >It's a fair amount of extra (and some will argue, unnecessary) work at a >time when you're anxious to get the fuselage nailed together. It was worth >it to me but your mileage may vary. > >Regards, >Greg Young >RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy > > >Listers, I am planning to make the entire seat floor removable so I can use >this space for storing survival gear, emergency water and first aid kits. >This area is pretty close to the center of gravity and out of the way. I >do not like to have "stuff" clutter up the baggage compartment. > >I plan to rivet partitions just aft of the leghtenign holes of the ribs, so >nothing can wander in to this area and interfer with the control lingages. > >My question to the list: Has anybody done this? How hard is it to move >seats etc in and out? I am really after the experience factor. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net>
cwcrane(at)airmail.net, billy.wilson(at)lmco.com
Subject: Re: cost Survey
michael brown wrote: > I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A > > I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. > What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? Hi Mike, I, too, am building a VFR RV-6A. Today I completed adding up my cost so far...and shocked myself. Terry may be right...I might not have started if I had known what was involved...but I have certainly enjoyed the building process and would do it again...only sooner. I am now ready to enjoy the freedom of flight...soon, I hope. Here are my costs with larger expenditures listed. The item listed may be the biggest item in a combined order...not the cost of the item. squeezer, $295 air compressor, and $101 shop insulation. $175 another squeezer yoke, $135 kit shipping, and $119 HVLP gun. $131 kit shipping. $2420 Terra COM/TXPR/ENCOD, $1765 Sensenich metal prop, $1488 Skyforce GPS, $848 EIS, $800 NavAid instrument, $650 NavAid servo, $650 Vetterman exhaust, $635 flight instruments, $550 Lightspeed headsets, $400 SkyTec starter, $336 Aeroflash strobes, $306 directional gyro, $291 eng shock mounts, $283 baffle, $260 alternator, $231 kit shipping, $230 gyro hor, $228 airspeed indicator, $219 ELT, and $215 seat harness. insulation, exterior coating, and engine overhaul (will fly until overhaul is needed). I am now working on the baffle...first flight within six months, I hope. As for tools, a friend had a drill press always available, otherwise it MUST be purchased. Bench vice is a must. Band saw and belt grinder are extremely desirable. For me the purchase of the HVLP gun was a mistake. I primed faying surfaces only and spray cans were convenient for me. It goes without saying that an air squeezer and two yokes are a MUST. I cannot imagine building without them, almost as necessary as an air die grinder. I got a Campbell-Hausfeld mini die grinder and it has performed flawlessly...another MUST. Sorry to be so long but I wish I had seen this compilation long ago! A prospective builder asked me a few days ago if $40K he had budgeted would cover the cost. I think the answer is "Yes", if he goes VFR and with an experienced engine...and controls his "want list". He caused me to add the figures. Good luck...and now you are informed! Will Cretsinger, Arlington, TX -6A baffle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Gert van der Sanden <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: ela trim cover
Hear ye hear ye o wise men of RVs I am a bit confused about the following: on drawing 5pp (emp RV8) there are detail drawings for the trim servo cover and the manual trim cover. The manual trim cover uses an426ad3-3.5 to mount the E-615pp re-innforcement plate, the ela version uses ad3-3 rivets. I think I will use the AD3-3.5 here Then it mentiones to use an515-6r8 screws to hold the E-616 in place. These come with the emp kit. However, with the ela trim kit came a set of counter sunk screws ( an507-6r8 ??) I like the countersunk screws but I have a problem countersinking the E616 that much. Alternatively I could dimple the E616 and countersink the E615 plate but the holes in the E615PP are rather close to the edge and countersinking these will leave hardly any wall between the countersunk hole and the cut-out for the servo. What have you done, o wise men ??? Gert RV8 80721 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PhilipR920(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Woodward Governor Installation
I would appreciate comments relative to the difficulty of installing a Woodward prop. gov. on an installed engine. I have a RV-6A with 0320-D1A and Dynafocal mount and am considering changing from fixed pitch to CS prop. Thanks, Phil Rogerson 6A 60057/N936PR Fernandina Beach, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: Lycoming Limits
> > In programming my engine monitor parameters, I am wondering where to find > the hi-lo temperature and pressure limits for oil pressure, oil temp, > CHT, voltage and fuel pressure? This is for the O-360-A1A. > Thanks. > Von Alexander > RV-8 N41VA > N41VA(at)juno.com > Von, The numbers you want are listed on FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) E-286, revision 18 for the O-360 series. It is an Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) document available at: <http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/tcds/tc/tcdsvol5/e-286.pdf> All the limits are in the Notes section, starting on page 5. The table of engine models on page 1 lists which notes apply to which models. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader, available at: <http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html> The index of all engine TCDS is at: <http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/tcds/tc/tcds5eng.htm> If you need help wading through the TCDS, or need me to fax a copy (on Monday), e-mail me direct. Take care, Kevin Horton RV-8 (wing leading edges) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work) http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Subject: "Perfect" airplane; was BOLT TORQUE!
Moe Colontonio wrote: > > I drilled and riveted it with the same > axle in place and it fit fine. Now my question for the list: Am I the ONLY one out > there that is not building a "perfect" airplane or am I the only one admitting it? > Does everyone else get a perfect fit on every assembly? > Oh, come on Moe! What a dumb question. Of course everyone's building a perfect plane with absolutely perfect fits. Just kidding!! I was just asking myself the same question this evening. I put something together and it fits perfect. I pull it apart, prime it dimple it, tweak it, and when it goes back together it seems to never fit as well as the first time. My canopy is a good example. I took it apart, primed the frame, dimpled holes, enlarge plexi holes and now nothing lines up worth a stink. Oh well, such is life in the airplane building business. Gary Zilik RV-6A s/n 22993 Hanging a most beautiful O-360 A1A from Aero Sport Power tomorrow. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming Limits
On Sat, 14 Nov 1998, VON L ALEXANDER wrote: > > In programming my engine monitor parameters, I am wondering where to find > the hi-lo temperature and pressure limits for oil pressure, oil temp, > CHT, voltage and fuel pressure? This is for the O-360-A1A. They are in the little red book three-ring binder labeled "Operator's Manual" (Lycoming part number 60297-12). Here are the things you need to know: Minumum fuel 91/96 Octane Oil inlet temperature 180F/82C desired, 245F/118C red line Oil pressure 100psi start/warm-up, 90 psi max, 60 psi min, 25 psi idle. Max 2700 RPM, Max CHT 500F > Thanks. > Von Alexander > RV-8 N41VA > N41VA(at)juno.com > > > > > Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane (916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1 (916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)mari.net>
Subject: Prepunched wing skins
Date: Nov 14, 1998
hello Group: Got another real basic question for you. I am in the process of laying out the positions for my wing ribs, and would like to use my skins to position the ribs properly. Yeah, I know....just measure out the rib stations as per the instructions. Its just that I would rather trust the skins. Is the root end of the skins flush with the rootrib flange? In other words, does the skin overhang the rib flange toward the wing root? My guess from checking the plans is that it is flush and does not have an overhang. Can anyone that has the skins on confirm this for me? Thanks gang Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A 25171 Wings Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: ela trim cover
Here is another question: where does the AS3-063x3x3 go which is in bag 612A and is marked 'trim tab horn' ?? Gert Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227, any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net>
Subject: The big bite
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Michael: I believe all your questions would be answered by reading Jon Johanson' book Aiming High. If you are not aware of it contact Van's Aircraft for a copy or possibly someone on the list might loan it to you for a few days. Eustace Bowhay RV 6 C-GHAY 20383 Salmon Arm, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM>
Subject: Re: BOLT TORQUE!
....Am I the ONLY one out there that is not building a "perfect" airplane..... Thanks for the encouragement Moe, I thought it was just me!!:') Bill Pagan fuselage out of the jig & workin like a dog http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Icom 200
MICHAEL wrote: > > I am using the Icom panel mount, and I think it is a real good > radio. I'm also using the built in intercomm option, so I > couldn't comment on the other intercomm. Michael, looks like it will be an ICOM. I have not seen any advertising regarding the intercom option. Is it built in or is it an add on board? Is it stereo? How much? Thanks for all the replies. Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: "perfect" airplane
In a message dated 11/14/98 3:56:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, gyoung@cs- sol.com writes: << Am I the ONLY one out there that is not building a "perfect" airplane >> Moe I guess that depends on what your definition of "perfect" is. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Subject: Re: cost Survey
>I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV.... Mike: I truely have no idea. If I did, Kelli would probably thump me in the head. I have all the receipts, but have never added them up. It didn't really matter as I knew I was going to finish it, no matter what it cost. And no matter how long it took, due to lack of funds, moving, doing other things besides building, etc. And it took a while. But: I now have an airplane that, to me, is priceless. There is no way to otherwise get an airplane that you...YOU built yourself, and that is one of the best aircraft in the air today. So: you can afford it. It is cheaper that a lot of the "luxury" cars out there. It is cheaper in the long run, than buying a factory-made as you do your own maintainance. You may have to give up some things you did before, like sitting in front of the TV until bed time, going on trips in the car instead of flying, etc. People will a also ask you why you are grinning all the time. Build one. You will LOVE your airplane. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q One year ago............ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Cost to Build
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Listers: I just thought I would add my comments to this thread that has been running lately. I belive that these aeroplanes (I was born in England), can still be build for a very reasonable cost if you are willing or have no other choice but to spend the time to find the various parts. There is nothing you can do about the cost of the airframe, unless you are building a second and I understand there is a small discount. Nevertheless, Vans prices are a great deal, if you look at the prices of other Kits (Murphy Rebel for example). The big variable is the engine. I was fortunate in that I found a O320 early in my project for 2500Cdn. I admitt, a great deal, but the engine had a propstrike so I had to dismantle and rebuild. The crank dialed OK but I took the engine apart to check it anyway. The camshaft needed replacing as well. I did all the work myself with help from knowledgeable people. I had all the engine parts checked and I managed to get a good engine togeather for 5000Cdn. Not a new engine from Vans, but there was no way I could afford that. The other large variable is the instruments and panel. I bought the panel out of a 150 aerobat for 1000cdn, sold the airspeed, bought a second hand one with the appropriate numbers and had most of my panel including a G meter very cheap. I have a VAL radio that works great by the way, and for nav I use a iimorrow 618 Loran C I paid 80Cdn for. Works great, even has a data base. I do not have a transponder as yet, in our little corner of Canada it is not a necessity as yet, although it is the next thing I want to buy. I'm just waiting for a good deal second hand. I guess what this rather long post is trying to say is that for those of us who cannot afford all the new stuff, if you are carefull with what you buy, it is possible to do this comparitivly cheaply. I have less that 35000cdn. in my airplane. I can't fly IFR, I can't go to alot of airports without a transponder, but its paid for and its far more airplane than I ever thought I would own. Joe Hine C-FYTQ RV-4 - lots of snow forcast tomorrow, today might have been the last flying for the year :-( ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Re: Woodward Governor Installation
Date: Nov 14, 1998
If you already have a recess in the firewall, it shouldn't be too bad. Otherwise it will be tricky doing the metal work with the engine in place to allow room. Marcus RV-6, two months since birth, 52 glorious hours airborne. >I would appreciate comments relative to the difficulty of installing a >Woodward prop. gov. on an installed engine. >I have a RV-6A with 0320-D1A and Dynafocal mount and am considering changing > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Landoll harmonic dampener
>Anybody: Would like to hear opinions from users of Landoll damper....Thanks, Jim, I ran the harmonic dampner when I was running a wood prop on my 150 hp RV6. I could tell no difference with or without, either in vibration or rpm increase. The weight did give the prop more inertia, which as others have pointed out, eleminates the sudden stoppage of the prop when shut down. I noticed a much bigger diference in smoothness after the prop was dynamically balanced than I did with the dampner. Something that I always wondered about but have never seen any comments on is, what happens to the silicon fluid in the dampner when it's very cold? It would seem that a frozen glob of goo could throw balance off until the silicon warmed up. cheaper. Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Subject: harmonic balancer
Listers, Back to the original question in reguards to the Landoll unit. Has any one installed the harmonic balancer on a 0-320 in an RV4 which has a constant speed cowl, 2and1/4 in. prop extension and a fixed pitch wooden prop???? Stew RV4 Co. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 1998
From: wntzl(at)execpc.com (David M Wentzell)
Subject: Re:Prepunched wing skins, Flush at root
Jeff, I believe you are correct - No Overhang. That's how I did mine. Another lister posted recently about Not using the skins or a template to locate rib positions, but relying on careful measuring. I did like he did. We measured, and doubled checked, and tripple checked. Should have used the skins or made a full size template. His turned out OK, as did mine. I agree with him, You can measure till you are blue,and something still ends up a little off. Good plan - Get those skins out. David Wentzell Wings - Racine, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L.R. BENTLY" <lloydb(at)intekom.co.za>
Subject: Re: Prepunched wing skins
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Hi Jeff . Just last week I did that job . What I did was first measure out the reference datum and then all the other stations as to the instructions . Then I put the skins on the spar , positioning according to the reference datum , check overlap carfully and marked through the punched holes . Removed the skins checked the marks ( they were very close to the measurements ) and positioned the ribs according to the skin marks . Hope you come rite .South Africa RV6 wings. measure once , cut twice . measure twice , cut once. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Subject: Oil Cooler RV6
To listers who have mounted the standard Harrison/Stewart Warner/ Niagara oil cooler on the left rear baffle, I would like to know your experience with clearance from the engine mount. The baffle kit instructions say to angle the oil cooler 25 deg away from the rear baffle to obtain clearance from the engine mount. This leads to a complex mounting arrangement. My initial mock up with the cooler flat on the baffle seems to provide at least 3/8" clearance from the engine mount and 1/2" from the cowl. The angled mount does not seem necessary. Am I missing something here? What have others done? Thanks Peter pbennett(at)zip.com.au ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler RV6
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Peter; I guess some of this depends on the size of the cooler. I don't know if there is a 'standard' here. I used a used s/w on mine (from the local FBO), don't remember the size etc. But placed it vertically on the rear of the left baffle. It fit with about 1/4'' or less space between its flange and the eng. mt. To help out, I ground down an arch (flattened half moon?) in the flange of the cooler. It gave more clearance and apparently did the trick as I never got any marks on the eng. mt. paint. I did do some acro. in it, but no 'show' type of stuff. John C Darby Jr. RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought Stephenville TX >To listers who have mounted the standard Harrison/Stewart Warner/ >Niagara oil cooler on the left rear baffle, I would like to know your >experience with clearance from the engine mount. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: rudder oil canning
tom sargent wrote: > > > I just got my rudder into the V bock jig for the first time and > clecoed it together (the end ribs aren't drilled yet and the skin hasn't > been drilled to the spar). There's an area on the lower right side that > oil cans in when I push on it. Total movement of the surface is probably a > tad less than 0.10 inch. Doesn't look too bad. Sounds pretty bad. I > experimented with clecoing it in different order hoping to shift the skin > around a bit, but that didn't work. > > My question is, is this serious enough to try to do anything about? > Is there anything I can do about it? Tom, Even though there is oil canning now, it may go away once riveted. Make sure everything is lined up correctly before drilling to the spar and ribs. I used a riveting technique on my flaps and ailerons that I read on John Bright's web site that is linked to Van's web site(I would attach the web address but Van's web is down this morning). Wish I knew about when I did the empennage! My ailerons & flaps skins are tight! Check out John's site. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Re: Icom 200
It is a built in intercom, that you can wire in as an option. I set mine up as an open mic system when switched to intercom. There are probably better ways to do it, but I'm not too up on that stuff. I couldn't get a voice actuated system to work satisfactorily in mine because of the cockpit noise. Good luck. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 5:20 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs > >Lothar, >I mounted my seat floor and baggage compartment floor with screws and >nutplates> >Only a few problem areas: the center flap bearing block sits on top of and >bolts thru both floor pieces, >Regards, >Greg Young >RV6 N6GY (reserved) fitting canopy Many builders elect to cut away the overlying panels at the center bearing block so that the panels come out without messing with first removing the block. I am installing my electric flaps now and went that way. This technique is illustrated in Ornforff's Fuselage tape 3, at around 350 feet into the tape. Dennis Persyk 6A canopy/electric flaps Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 15, 1998
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Prepunched wing skins
Jeff Orear wrote: > > > hello Group: > > Got another real basic question for you. I am in the process of laying out > the positions for my wing ribs, and would like to use my skins to position > the ribs properly. Yeah, I know....just measure out the rib stations as per > the instructions. Its just that I would rather trust the skins. > > Is the root end of the skins flush with the rootrib flange? In other words, > does the skin overhang the rib flange toward the wing root? My guess from > checking the plans is that it is flush and does not have an overhang. Can > anyone that has the skins on confirm this for me? > > Hi Jeff, The root rib on the plans looks flush but mine isn't. My root rib flange starts about 1/8" in towards the tip. I also used the skin to determine rib locations instead of plan measurements. Most of the plan rib location measurements are right on but a few were off by a little bit. That "little bit" could become a pain in the butt. I borrowed someone's idea of making a template from the skins to transfer to the spar. I bought a flat piece of aluminum strip at Home Depot that was 3/4" x 8' x 1/8"(can do all rib locations except tip rib). Side-gripped both bottom skins to it and drilled through each rib location on skins. Now the aluminum strip has the location of the rib centerline rivets. I marked the location on the template of the 5/8" rib flange for each rib. Now the template shows a hole for the center line location of rivets in each rib and each rib flange location. Use the plans to locate the root rib flange web on the spar. Line up the root rib on the template with the root rib on the spar and just move down the template and mark the rib locations. Do the the same thing on the rear spar. The template also has the two plumb line holes drilled in it. It locates the plumb line location span wise. Just mark through the hole, draw a line through that mark from top to bottom of spar, them measure down on line the distances given in manual and drill a small hole. Perfect plumb line holes on main and rear spars! I know, sounds like a lot of trouble, but it's time spent early to avoid wasted time later. Many builders just side-grip the skins to spar and mark the rib rivet locations which is probably the easiest method. Good luck! Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Lycoming Limits
Date: Nov 14, 1998
Get a manual for your engine...!!! You should have one as the mechanic From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com> Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 6:18 PM Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Limits > >In programming my engine monitor parameters, I am wondering where to find >the hi-lo temperature and pressure limits for oil pressure, oil temp, >CHT, voltage and fuel pressure? This is for the O-360-A1A. >Thanks. >Von Alexander >RV-8 N41VA >N41VA(at)juno.com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Woodward Governor Installation
Date: Nov 15, 1998
A recess in the firewall can be easily done by cutting the appropriate hole to fit a stainless steel bowl. The cheapest bowl you can find as they are thinner and thus lighter. Stainless pie plates also work. Don't take from your wife's supply!!! From: Marcus Cooper <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 11:22 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Woodward Governor Installation > >If you already have a recess in the firewall, it shouldn't be too bad. >Otherwise it will be tricky doing the metal work with the engine in place to >allow room. >Marcus >RV-6, two months since birth, 52 glorious hours airborne. > >>I would appreciate comments relative to the difficulty of installing a >>Woodward prop. gov. on an installed engine. >>I have a RV-6A with 0320-D1A and Dynafocal mount and am considering >changing >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net>
Subject: Throttle Quad
Date: Nov 15, 1998
For those of you that have an interest in the left hand throttle installation, I don't have the capability to put the picture up on E-mail, but will gladly send by regular mail, just send me your address of the RVlist. Eustace Bowhay Salmon Arm, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Warren Bishop <wemkbish(at)nponline.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler RV6
pbennett(at)zip.com.au wrote: > > To listers who have mounted the standard Harrison/Stewart Warner/ > Niagara oil cooler on the left rear baffle, I would like to know your > experience with clearance from the engine mount. > > The baffle kit instructions say to angle the oil cooler 25 deg away > from the rear baffle to obtain clearance from the engine mount. This > leads to a complex mounting arrangement. > > My initial mock up with the cooler flat on the baffle seems to provide > at least 3/8" clearance from the engine mount and 1/2" from the cowl. > The angled mount does not seem necessary. > > Am I missing something here? What have others done? > > Thanks > > Peter > pbennett(at)zip.com.au Peter, I used the same oil cooler and mounted vertically on rear baffle of #4. Haven't flown yet, but have enough clearance with engine mount and cowl that the rearward angle was not needed. I did do lots of reinforcing, and used AN3-41 bolts with 1/4" tubing as spacers between the flanges on the cooler. Warren RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Will Cretsinger wrote: > > > michael brown wrote: > > > I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A > > > > I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. > > What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? > > Hi Mike, > > I, too, am building a VFR RV-6A. Today I completed adding up my cost so > far...and shocked myself. Terry may be right...I might not have started > if I had known what was involved...but I have certainly enjoyed the > building process and would do it again...only sooner. I am now ready to > enjoy the freedom of flight...soon, I hope. > > Here are my costs with larger expenditures listed. The item listed may > be the biggest item in a combined order...not the cost of the item. > > squeezer, $295 air compressor, and $101 shop insulation. > > $175 another squeezer yoke, $135 kit shipping, and $119 HVLP gun. > > $131 kit shipping. > > $2420 Terra COM/TXPR/ENCOD, $1765 Sensenich metal prop, $1488 Skyforce > GPS, $848 EIS, $800 NavAid instrument, $650 NavAid servo, $650 Vetterman > exhaust, $635 flight instruments, $550 Lightspeed headsets, $400 SkyTec > starter, $336 Aeroflash strobes, $306 directional gyro, $291 eng shock > mounts, $283 baffle, $260 alternator, $231 kit shipping, $230 gyro hor, > $228 airspeed indicator, $219 ELT, and $215 seat harness. > > insulation, exterior coating, and engine overhaul (will fly until > overhaul is needed). > > I am now working on the baffle...first flight within six months, I > hope. As for tools, a friend had a drill press always available, > otherwise it MUST be purchased. Bench vice is a must. Band saw and > belt grinder are extremely desirable. For me the purchase of the HVLP > gun was a mistake. I primed faying surfaces only and spray cans were > convenient for me. It goes without saying that an air squeezer and two > yokes are a MUST. I cannot imagine building without them, almost as > necessary as an air die grinder. I got a Campbell-Hausfeld mini die > grinder and it has performed flawlessly...another MUST. > > Sorry to be so long but I wish I had seen this compilation long ago! A > prospective builder asked me a few days ago if $40K he had budgeted > would cover the cost. I think the answer is "Yes", if he goes VFR and > with an experienced engine...and controls his "want list". He caused me > to add the figures. > > Good luck...and now you are informed! > While it sounds like this is going to be a really nice RV-6A it does not seem like a bare bones model to me, Now granted I started flying mine in 1989 but I also only had $21,000.00 into it. I flew it 300 hrs with a high time O-320 engine that had 1795 hrs on it when I put it on my RV. I flew for many hours with out any gyros and only a ValCom radio. I would not consider $550.00 headsets to be bare bones. I have flown in a lot of different RVs and VERY few of them have dual brake systems. While this is nice the question was how much for bare bones. You can save another $8-900.00 by using a wood prop I still have a wood prop on mine after close to 1000 hrs flying time. Michael with really careful building you should be able to fly for $30,000 to $32,000 total for a bare bones VFR RV. Whatever the cost and however you equip you RV it is worth it. Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Drilling the top fuselage skin F-675
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Frank Justice says that if you pilot drill the bulkheads you can position the F-675 skin, reach in and drill it from the outside without crawling inside. I pilot drilled and put on the skin, but it doesn't look like I can reach in and drill the F-608 bulkhead to the skin. Have any of you out there been able to drill this skin to the bulkheads without crawling inside? Steve Soule ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Drilling the top fuselage skin F-675
<< I pilot drilled and put on the skin, but it doesn't look like I can reach in and drill the F-608 bulkhead to the skin. Have any of you out there been able to drill this skin to the bulkheads without crawling inside? >> Not me. I did this exercise just this week. Put a couple of boards in there (across the bulkheads, padded with something), climb in, and go for it. A little scary banging around in there, but really no problem. KB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall Bowls
> > > A recess in the firewall can be easily done by cutting the appropriate hole > to fit a stainless steel bowl. The cheapest bowl you can find as they are > thinner and thus lighter. Stainless pie plates also work. > > Don't take from your wife's supply!!! > I found the best dish at a large chain store for about $4.00. I bought a couple seven inches in diameter- practiced on the first and made the second look way better. I followed Tony' s method but found a mallet to bent the lip down produced wrinkles in the bowl area that just didn't look good - I'm sure that the bowl would still be very functional. I found that rolling a a round bucking bar gently around the edges about four times worked very well and now I have at least one part that 'might' win a trophy! I now tell everyone that my airplane has everything including the kitchen sink :-) DGM RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Drilling the top fuselage skin F-675
Stephen J. Soule wrote: > > Frank Justice says that if you pilot drill the bulkheads you can position > the F-675 skin, reach in and drill it from the outside without crawling > inside. I pilot drilled and put on the skin, but it doesn't look like I can > reach in and drill the F-608 bulkhead to the skin. Have any of you out > there been able to drill this skin to the bulkheads without crawling inside? > > Steve Soule Steve - Go ahead - throw a blanket or two in there and crawl in and drill those holes. When you get ready to rivet, crawl in again and back rivet the whole set at one session. Get just about anyone to insert the rivets for you and hold the bucking bar. I should take you less than an hour to rivet the whole top skins. Remember to wear eye protection to guard for metal chips and ear protection 'cause it is extremely noisy. Hope this helps. DGM RV-6 Slowly plugging along with trim around the canopy and locking linkage. Southern Alberta. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Aeroplanes vs Airplanes...
>> something young women wear to a picnic with their baskets in hand >> and boyfriends in tow. JR > >Unless the boyfriend is Randy. Everywhere else in the world the >young woman would stay home with mother. > >Peter and of course in the U.S. it is acceptable behaviour for a young woman to "root for the team" LD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Trade oil pans
Date: Nov 16, 1998
I have an O-320-E2A (TC274 ). I would like to trade oil pans with someone. I'm looking for a pan off a fuel injected IO-320 (it has the intake to the rear instead of the bottom like mine) that would bolt on to my engine. Ernesto Sanchez es12043(at)utech.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler RV6
John Darby wrote: > > Peter; > > I guess some of this depends on the size of the cooler. I don't know if > there is a 'standard' here. I used a used s/w on mine (from the local FBO), > don't remember the size etc. But placed it vertically on the rear of the > left baffle. It fit with about 1/4'' or less space between its flange and > the eng. mt. To help out, I ground down an arch (flattened half moon?) in > the flange of the cooler. It gave more clearance and apparently did the > trick as I never got any marks on the eng. mt. paint. I did do some acro. > in it, but no 'show' type of stuff. > John C Darby Jr. > RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought > Stephenville TX > > >To listers who have mounted the standard Harrison/Stewart Warner/ > >Niagara oil cooler on the left rear baffle, I would like to know your > >experience with clearance from the engine mount. Me too > My experience identical. But I suppose it depends on engine/baffle kit/mount > combo. Mine is an O-360 A1A from Van's with van's mount, and baffle kit. also > the cooler sold by van's. One other thing to think about at this time is whether you are going to want to add a door control for regulating air flow through the cooler. If so, it may influence your choice of mounting positions. I don't have a door, but feel I should have such a control, especially this time of year. If surface temps are below freezing, I need to shut off all air to cooler to have any hope of achieving 180 Degrees in cruise. On the other hand for climbing out on hot (over 90) summer days I need all the cooling air I can get. On a 600 mile cross country I have changed climates enough to wish I had a control! Simplicity is hard to beat though . (Sigh) Good Luck D Walsh RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PILOT8127(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 1998
JimNolan(at)kconline.com, sloanie(at)localline.com, dspencer(at)kiva.net, rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV Fly-In Breakfast
Hi Gang! The RV Fly-In breakfast at (OI2) Brazil-Clay Co. (Indiana) airport was great! 10 RV's were in attendance. They were as follows: Dave Cobbs from Greenwood, In. RV4 (and guest, Monty Gainey also of Greenwood, Bldg. RV4) Tom Utterback from Eagle-Creek, In. Harmon Rocket (and guest, Bud Wilson) Mike Worth from Eagle-Creek, In. RV4 Jim Winings from Speedway, In. RV4 (180 c/s) Steve Wood from Franklin, In. RV4 Paul McCord from Mt. Comfort, In. RV4 (and son, Tom) Dennis Shirley from Kokomo, In. RV4 Chet Razer from Sparta, ILL. RV6A (180 c/s) Farthest Distance Flown Prize! Max Shanklin from Indianapolis, In. RV6A (180 c/s) Bill Nolan from Speedway, In. RV6 (160) Recently flew off time. Unpainted.! HOST: Gary Rodgers Brazil, In. RV3 Breakfast was at the I-70 Truck-Stop Restaraunt. Excellent "Buffet" and menu items were enjoyed by all. Weather was "PERFECT"- warm, clear, and light winds. The group of ten departed in loose formation for a series of low approaches (single-file) to a local GRASS Strip. Some then departed in blue skies for home base. the rest of us (8) continued on to another "Grass Strip" and then to Speedway. More low passes and then landed for fuel. If you could'nt make this trip. NEXT Sunday Nov. 22, The Indiana RV's are eating Breakfast at RCR Rochester, In. Pat's Cafe is the place! Chicago Sectional. Restaraunt is walking distance from aircraft parking. Alot more "Happened" today. DON'T MISS the next RV Excursion ! ! Gary and N5AJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Starter advice
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Fellow Listers: Not a specific RV question, but I'd like to ask our engine experts what starter they might recommend. My Citabria's old Prestolite "boat anchor" is having problems (starter throw-out gear doesn't throw-out once in a while... just whines). I see three models on the market: Lamar, Sky-Tech, and MagnaFlite (Electrosystems). Any recommendation? (or I guess I could overhaul my old one, but it weighs a ton) Doug ============ Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: cost Survey
I'm looking for a good air compressor. Has any one heard of a company called Quincy? I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud. What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet? Jerry Springer wrote: > > Will Cretsinger wrote: > > > > > > michael brown wrote: > > > > > I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A > > > > > > I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. > > > What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I, too, am building a VFR RV-6A. Today I completed adding up my cost so > > far...and shocked myself. Terry may be right...I might not have started > > if I had known what was involved...but I have certainly enjoyed the > > building process and would do it again...only sooner. I am now ready to > > enjoy the freedom of flight...soon, I hope. > > > > Here are my costs with larger expenditures listed. The item listed may > > be the biggest item in a combined order...not the cost of the item. > > > > squeezer, $295 air compressor, and $101 shop insulation. > > > > $175 another squeezer yoke, $135 kit shipping, and $119 HVLP gun. > > > > $131 kit shipping. > > > > $2420 Terra COM/TXPR/ENCOD, $1765 Sensenich metal prop, $1488 Skyforce > > GPS, $848 EIS, $800 NavAid instrument, $650 NavAid servo, $650 Vetterman > > exhaust, $635 flight instruments, $550 Lightspeed headsets, $400 SkyTec > > starter, $336 Aeroflash strobes, $306 directional gyro, $291 eng shock > > mounts, $283 baffle, $260 alternator, $231 kit shipping, $230 gyro hor, > > $228 airspeed indicator, $219 ELT, and $215 seat harness. > > > > insulation, exterior coating, and engine overhaul (will fly until > > overhaul is needed). > > > > I am now working on the baffle...first flight within six months, I > > hope. As for tools, a friend had a drill press always available, > > otherwise it MUST be purchased. Bench vice is a must. Band saw and > > belt grinder are extremely desirable. For me the purchase of the HVLP > > gun was a mistake. I primed faying surfaces only and spray cans were > > convenient for me. It goes without saying that an air squeezer and two > > yokes are a MUST. I cannot imagine building without them, almost as > > necessary as an air die grinder. I got a Campbell-Hausfeld mini die > > grinder and it has performed flawlessly...another MUST. > > > > Sorry to be so long but I wish I had seen this compilation long ago! A > > prospective builder asked me a few days ago if $40K he had budgeted > > would cover the cost. I think the answer is "Yes", if he goes VFR and > > with an experienced engine...and controls his "want list". He caused me > > to add the figures. > > > > Good luck...and now you are informed! > > > > While it sounds like this is going to be a really nice RV-6A it > does not seem like a bare bones model to me, Now granted I started > flying mine in 1989 but I also only had $21,000.00 into it. I flew > it 300 hrs with a high time O-320 engine that had 1795 hrs on it when > I put it on my RV. I flew for many hours with out any gyros and only > a ValCom radio. I would not consider $550.00 headsets to be bare bones. > I have flown in a lot of different RVs and VERY few of them have dual > brake systems. While this is nice the question was how much for bare > bones. You can save another $8-900.00 by using a wood prop I still have > a wood prop on mine after close to 1000 hrs flying time. Michael with > really careful building you should be able to fly for $30,000 to > $32,000 total for a bare bones VFR RV. Whatever the cost and however > you equip you RV it is worth it. > > Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR > jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Is there a big difference between expensive air tools (Ingersoll Rand) and cheap ones??? Jerry Springer wrote: > > Will Cretsinger wrote: > > > > > > michael brown wrote: > > > > > I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A > > > > > > I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. > > > What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > I, too, am building a VFR RV-6A. Today I completed adding up my cost so > > far...and shocked myself. Terry may be right...I might not have started > > if I had known what was involved...but I have certainly enjoyed the > > building process and would do it again...only sooner. I am now ready to > > enjoy the freedom of flight...soon, I hope. > > > > Here are my costs with larger expenditures listed. The item listed may > > be the biggest item in a combined order...not the cost of the item. > > > > squeezer, $295 air compressor, and $101 shop insulation. > > > > $175 another squeezer yoke, $135 kit shipping, and $119 HVLP gun. > > > > $131 kit shipping. > > > > $2420 Terra COM/TXPR/ENCOD, $1765 Sensenich metal prop, $1488 Skyforce > > GPS, $848 EIS, $800 NavAid instrument, $650 NavAid servo, $650 Vetterman > > exhaust, $635 flight instruments, $550 Lightspeed headsets, $400 SkyTec > > starter, $336 Aeroflash strobes, $306 directional gyro, $291 eng shock > > mounts, $283 baffle, $260 alternator, $231 kit shipping, $230 gyro hor, > > $228 airspeed indicator, $219 ELT, and $215 seat harness. > > > > insulation, exterior coating, and engine overhaul (will fly until > > overhaul is needed). > > > > I am now working on the baffle...first flight within six months, I > > hope. As for tools, a friend had a drill press always available, > > otherwise it MUST be purchased. Bench vice is a must. Band saw and > > belt grinder are extremely desirable. For me the purchase of the HVLP > > gun was a mistake. I primed faying surfaces only and spray cans were > > convenient for me. It goes without saying that an air squeezer and two > > yokes are a MUST. I cannot imagine building without them, almost as > > necessary as an air die grinder. I got a Campbell-Hausfeld mini die > > grinder and it has performed flawlessly...another MUST. > > > > Sorry to be so long but I wish I had seen this compilation long ago! A > > prospective builder asked me a few days ago if $40K he had budgeted > > would cover the cost. I think the answer is "Yes", if he goes VFR and > > with an experienced engine...and controls his "want list". He caused me > > to add the figures. > > > > Good luck...and now you are informed! > > > > While it sounds like this is going to be a really nice RV-6A it > does not seem like a bare bones model to me, Now granted I started > flying mine in 1989 but I also only had $21,000.00 into it. I flew > it 300 hrs with a high time O-320 engine that had 1795 hrs on it when > I put it on my RV. I flew for many hours with out any gyros and only > a ValCom radio. I would not consider $550.00 headsets to be bare bones. > I have flown in a lot of different RVs and VERY few of them have dual > brake systems. While this is nice the question was how much for bare > bones. You can save another $8-900.00 by using a wood prop I still have > a wood prop on mine after close to 1000 hrs flying time. Michael with > really careful building you should be able to fly for $30,000 to > $32,000 total for a bare bones VFR RV. Whatever the cost and however > you equip you RV it is worth it. > > Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR > jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Paul Besing <rv8er(at)doitnow.com>
Subject: About to start the canopy
I am about to start my canopy, and would like to know if any of you who have completed the tip up canopy have any words of wisdom that are not in the plans, manual, Justice notes, etc....Can I learn from anyone else's mistakes out there? Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er Waiting on finish kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sylvain Duford" <sylvain(at)duford.com>
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Hi Michael, 3 weeks ago I bought a USA Air (??) at Home Depot for $328 . It is a 5HP, 120 PSI, 20 gal, oil lubricated, reasonably quiet, and really well built. Sylvain From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com> Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 4:44 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: cost Survey > >I'm looking for a good air compressor. > >Has any one heard of a company called Quincy? > >I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud. > >What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet? > >Jerry Springer wrote: > >> >> Will Cretsinger wrote: >> > >> > >> > michael brown wrote: >> > >> > > I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A >> > > >> > > I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. >> > > What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? >> > >> > Hi Mike, >> > >> > I, too, am building a VFR RV-6A. Today I completed adding up my cost so >> > far...and shocked myself. Terry may be right...I might not have started >> > if I had known what was involved...but I have certainly enjoyed the >> > building process and would do it again...only sooner. I am now ready to >> > enjoy the freedom of flight...soon, I hope. >> > >> > Here are my costs with larger expenditures listed. The item listed may >> > be the biggest item in a combined order...not the cost of the item. >> > >> > squeezer, $295 air compressor, and $101 shop insulation. >> > lights, >> > $175 another squeezer yoke, $135 kit shipping, and $119 HVLP gun. >> > and >> > $131 kit shipping. >> > engine, >> > $2420 Terra COM/TXPR/ENCOD, $1765 Sensenich metal prop, $1488 Skyforce >> > GPS, $848 EIS, $800 NavAid instrument, $650 NavAid servo, $650 Vetterman >> > exhaust, $635 flight instruments, $550 Lightspeed headsets, $400 SkyTec >> > starter, $336 Aeroflash strobes, $306 directional gyro, $291 eng shock >> > mounts, $283 baffle, $260 alternator, $231 kit shipping, $230 gyro hor, >> > $228 airspeed indicator, $219 ELT, and $215 seat harness. >> > >> > insulation, exterior coating, and engine overhaul (will fly until >> > overhaul is needed). >> > >> > I am now working on the baffle...first flight within six months, I >> > hope. As for tools, a friend had a drill press always available, >> > otherwise it MUST be purchased. Bench vice is a must. Band saw and >> > belt grinder are extremely desirable. For me the purchase of the HVLP >> > gun was a mistake. I primed faying surfaces only and spray cans were >> > convenient for me. It goes without saying that an air squeezer and two >> > yokes are a MUST. I cannot imagine building without them, almost as >> > necessary as an air die grinder. I got a Campbell-Hausfeld mini die >> > grinder and it has performed flawlessly...another MUST. >> > >> > Sorry to be so long but I wish I had seen this compilation long ago! A >> > prospective builder asked me a few days ago if $40K he had budgeted >> > would cover the cost. I think the answer is "Yes", if he goes VFR and >> > with an experienced engine...and controls his "want list". He caused me >> > to add the figures. >> > >> > Good luck...and now you are informed! >> > >> >> While it sounds like this is going to be a really nice RV-6A it >> does not seem like a bare bones model to me, Now granted I started >> flying mine in 1989 but I also only had $21,000.00 into it. I flew >> it 300 hrs with a high time O-320 engine that had 1795 hrs on it when >> I put it on my RV. I flew for many hours with out any gyros and only >> a ValCom radio. I would not consider $550.00 headsets to be bare bones. >> I have flown in a lot of different RVs and VERY few of them have dual >> brake systems. While this is nice the question was how much for bare >> bones. You can save another $8-900.00 by using a wood prop I still have >> a wood prop on mine after close to 1000 hrs flying time. Michael with >> really careful building you should be able to fly for $30,000 to >> $32,000 total for a bare bones VFR RV. Whatever the cost and however >> you equip you RV it is worth it. >> >> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR >> jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com >> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Darby" <johnd@our-town.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler RV6
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Denis, I took a little different approach to this. I controlled the flow of oil to the cooler. Was much simpler and easier to build up. A ball valve in the inlet side of the cooler, hooked by a bowden cable to the inside for in flight adjustment. My oil temp had run cool to start with so it worked great. Was able to control the temp easy. John C Darby Jr. RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought Stephenville TX > >One other thing to think about at this time is whether you are going to want to >add a door control for regulating air flow through the cooler. If so, it may >influence your choice of mounting positions. I don't have a door, but feel I >should have such a control, especially this time of year. If surface temps are (edited) >D Walsh RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Michael, I have a Quincy 325 two stage vertical air compressor. I rebuilt two of them and sold one to nearly pay for both. The one I kept came out of a commercial dry cleaning operation and the one I sold came out of a commercial tire shop. That should tell you something about Quincey's. They are bullet proof! Best compressor that I own and that I have ever owned and I've had at least a dozen! I still own five at the moment. AL > >I'm looking for a good air compressor. > >Has any one heard of a company called Quincy? > >I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud. > >What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Quincey Air Compressors
Sorry I should have changed the subject. Michael, I have a Quincy 325 two stage vertical air compressor. I rebuilt two of them and sold one to nearly pay for both. The one I kept came out of a commercial dry cleaning operation and the one I sold came out of a commercial tire shop. That should tell you something about Quincey's. They are bullet proof! Best compressor that I own and that I have ever owned and I've had at least a dozen! I still own five at the moment. AL > >I'm looking for a good air compressor. > >Has any one heard of a company called Quincy? > >I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud. > >What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Air tool quality
Michael, First please delete all of the text that is irrelivant to your question and change the subject line to reflect what your subject is. The archives are growing fast enough. Now as far as air tools are concerned, you can probably build your RV using the cheaper (not cheapest) tools and do just fine. A quality tool though can usually be appreciated in it's feel and performance. It's funny how the guys that complete their projects don't part with their tools after they are finished. I have a bunch of tools and figure I will retire upon there sale and the sale of my plane and the sale of anything else that means anything to me so I can pay for the retirement home! AL > >Is there a big difference between expensive air tools (Ingersoll Rand) and cheap >ones??? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Quincy Air Compressors are high quality heavy duty commercial type compressors. At least that is where they made their reputation. I presume that they are cast iron, not aluminum. They may have made a low cost for the home market but many auto body shop use them as they run for years without much attention. From: Sylvain Duford <sylvain(at)duford.com> Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 7:44 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: cost Survey > >Hi Michael, 3 weeks ago I bought a USA Air (??) at Home Depot for $328 . It >is a 5HP, 120 PSI, 20 gal, oil lubricated, reasonably quiet, and really well >built. > >Sylvain > >From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 4:44 PM >Subject: Re: RV-List: cost Survey > > >> >>I'm looking for a good air compressor. >> >>Has any one heard of a company called Quincy? >> >>I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud. >> >>What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet? >> >>Jerry Springer wrote: >> >>> >>> Will Cretsinger wrote: >>> > > >>> > >>> > michael brown wrote: >>> > >>> > > I'm building a bare bones VFR RV-6A >>> > > >>> > > I'd like to take a survey of what it cost to build YOUR RV. >>> > > What are the best non necessary tools to speed up production? >>> > >>> > Hi Mike, >>> > >>> > I, too, am building a VFR RV-6A. Today I completed adding up my cost >so >>> > far...and shocked myself. Terry may be right...I might not have >started >>> > if I had known what was involved...but I have certainly enjoyed the >>> > building process and would do it again...only sooner. I am now ready >to >>> > enjoy the freedom of flight...soon, I hope. >>> > >>> > Here are my costs with larger expenditures listed. The item listed may >>> > be the biggest item in a combined order...not the cost of the item. >>> > >>> > squeezer, $295 air compressor, and $101 shop insulation. >>> > >lights, >>> > $175 another squeezer yoke, $135 kit shipping, and $119 HVLP gun. >>> > >and >>> > $131 kit shipping. >>> > >engine, >>> > $2420 Terra COM/TXPR/ENCOD, $1765 Sensenich metal prop, $1488 Skyforce >>> > GPS, $848 EIS, $800 NavAid instrument, $650 NavAid servo, $650 >Vetterman >>> > exhaust, $635 flight instruments, $550 Lightspeed headsets, $400 SkyTec >>> > starter, $336 Aeroflash strobes, $306 directional gyro, $291 eng shock >>> > mounts, $283 baffle, $260 alternator, $231 kit shipping, $230 gyro hor, >>> > $228 airspeed indicator, $219 ELT, and $215 seat harness. >>> > >>> > insulation, exterior coating, and engine overhaul (will fly until >>> > overhaul is needed). >>> > >>> > I am now working on the baffle...first flight within six months, I >>> > hope. As for tools, a friend had a drill press always available, >>> > otherwise it MUST be purchased. Bench vice is a must. Band saw and >>> > belt grinder are extremely desirable. For me the purchase of the HVLP >>> > gun was a mistake. I primed faying surfaces only and spray cans were >>> > convenient for me. It goes without saying that an air squeezer and two >>> > yokes are a MUST. I cannot imagine building without them, almost as >>> > necessary as an air die grinder. I got a Campbell-Hausfeld mini die >>> > grinder and it has performed flawlessly...another MUST. >>> > >>> > Sorry to be so long but I wish I had seen this compilation long ago! A >>> > prospective builder asked me a few days ago if $40K he had budgeted >>> > would cover the cost. I think the answer is "Yes", if he goes VFR and >>> > with an experienced engine...and controls his "want list". He caused >me >>> > to add the figures. >>> > >>> > Good luck...and now you are informed! >>> > >>> >>> While it sounds like this is going to be a really nice RV-6A it >>> does not seem like a bare bones model to me, Now granted I started >>> flying mine in 1989 but I also only had $21,000.00 into it. I flew >>> it 300 hrs with a high time O-320 engine that had 1795 hrs on it when >>> I put it on my RV. I flew for many hours with out any gyros and only >>> a ValCom radio. I would not consider $550.00 headsets to be bare bones. >>> I have flown in a lot of different RVs and VERY few of them have dual >>> brake systems. While this is nice the question was how much for bare >>> bones. You can save another $8-900.00 by using a wood prop I still have >>> a wood prop on mine after close to 1000 hrs flying time. Michael with >>> really careful building you should be able to fly for $30,000 to >>> $32,000 total for a bare bones VFR RV. Whatever the cost and however >>> you equip you RV it is worth it. >>> >>> Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, OR >>> jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Quincey Air Compressors
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com>
I got the 3 1/2 HP Quincy model 131A20PN3 (two cylinder, cast iron, belt drive). Very quiet, excellent quality. $369.99 from Harbor Freight, free shipping to your door. You can't beat this deal. Carl Froehlich, RV-8A (wings, still!) Vienna, VA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler RV6
<< I took a little different approach to this. I controlled the flow of oil to the cooler. Was much simpler and easier to build up. A ball valve in the inlet side of the cooler, hooked by a bowden cable to the inside for in flight adjustment. >> My cooler door is pretty simple, too. A locking control cable and a little door with a hinge to cover the backside of the cooler. An Adel clamp to hold the sheath of the cable and voila. When closed, it will maintain an oil temp of 180 deg F down to 40 deg F ambient. When open, oil temp is 180 deg F at 105 deg F ambient. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Starter advice
<< I see three models on the market: Lamar, Sky-Tech, and MagnaFlite (Electrosystems). Any recommendation? (or I guess I could overhaul my old one, but it weighs a ton) >> There is also a B&C. I have the Sky-tec on my new O-360 and it is 10 lbs lighter than the ESI. Works great. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
Date: Nov 15, 1998
I bought my tools used, and the guy I bought them from had all the cheaper stuff. I have a Tatco squeezer and a Nesco air drill. The Tatco has held up great, and really gets the job done, but the air drill is starting to crap out a little. My chuck is about stripped out, and it siezes alot. One of the nicer Sioux reversables is on my Christmas list, and Brown Aviation Tool has them on sale. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 Page at: http://tabshred.com/moe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Harrellace(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Subject: Re: Elec Trim failure
Thinks ryan , my trim is doing the same thing ken rv-6 N7470U 220 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: wntzl(at)execpc.com (David M Wentzell)
Subject: Canopy
Hello All As long as we're talking about canopy, I would like to solicit comments / experiences about Tip-Up vs Slider. I don't need to decide yet, but I'm always (literally, always!) thinking ahead. Pros 'n cons?? David Wentzell Wings - Racine, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: Quincey Air Compressors
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Boy! Was I wrong about Harbor Freight! From: Carl Froehlich <carlfro(at)erols.com> Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 8:49 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Quincey Air Compressors > >I got the 3 1/2 HP Quincy model 131A20PN3 (two cylinder, cast iron, belt >drive). Very quiet, excellent quality. $369.99 from Harbor Freight, >free shipping to your door. You can't beat this deal. > >Carl Froehlich, RV-8A (wings, still!) >Vienna, VA > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
I have the no-name 3/8" drill from U.S. Industrial Tool and Supply. The first thing I did with the drill was to install a Jacobs keyless chuck ($10-$12 at Home Depot if I remember correctly). The drill has worked very well; I really recommend the keyless chuck for drills that come with a standard chuck. Sam Buchanan "The RV Journal" http://ww.ath/tis/net/~sbuc/rv6 Moe Colontonio wrote: > > > I bought my tools used, and the guy I bought them from had all the cheaper > stuff. I have a Tatco squeezer and a Nesco air drill. The Tatco has held up > great, and really gets the job done, but the air drill is starting to crap > out a little. My chuck is about stripped out, and it siezes alot. One of the > nicer Sioux reversables is on my Christmas list, and Brown Aviation Tool has > them on sale. > > Moe Colontonio > moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net > Check out my RV-8 Page at: > http://tabshred.com/moe > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
>One of the nicer Sioux reversables is on my Christmas list, and Brown Aviation Tool has >them on sale. >Moe Colontonio Moe, Have you been good enough this year to deserve a Sioux Drill? :) When I built my six, I saved a little money on several tools, one of them my air drill. Mine was just a generic, 3/8" drill. It got the job done and was cheap. In the year before I moved to Wyoming, I helped build a Glastar in my shop. The kit owner was a great guy. I had admired his Sioux, 1/4" drill on many occasions. Before I moved, Capt. Bill presented me with one that he'd bought from Cleavland. This is a very good drill! Very quiet with a very good teasing trigger. It's small which makes it easier to get into tight quarters. If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought one right off the bat. When you think of how much drilling there is to do the cost over many holes:) When I brought my Sioux drill home from work at Gillette awhile back, Gillette Charlie went out to the shop to do some work. He was stuck with the old, noisy 3/8" drill and wasn't happy. He jumped me about taking the Sioux when I went back to work on his RV. I told him it was good for him to see how the other half lived and, besides, it was my drill! The price in the Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co flyer of $199.00 (1-800-587-3883) is the cheapest price I've seen. I wouldn't spend extra for a reversible drill. If you haven't bought your drill yet, I'd highly recommend one. And, if you've been a really good builder, you probably owe yourself one. Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler RV6
>One other thing to think about at this time is whether you are going to want to >add a door control for regulating air flow through the cooler. If so, it may >influence your choice of mounting positions. I don't have a door, but feel I >should have such a control, especially this time of year. If surface temps are >below freezing, I need to shut off all air to cooler to have any hope of >achieving 180 Degrees in cruise. On the other hand for climbing out on hot (over >90) summer days I need all the cooling air I can get. On a 600 mile cross >country I have changed climates enough to wish I had a control! Simplicity is >hard to beat though . (Sigh) >D Walsh RV-6A Hi Denis, I put a door over my cooler after getting tired of messing with duct tape. The real killers are temp. inversions. On a couple of occasions, when I got to altitude, it was a lot warmer than the surface and I had to land and peal off duct tape. My cooler is mounted on the left, front horizontal baffle and the door is activated by a button lock control. It works very well. Below 25 degrees F., the door is all the way shut and I have a hard time getting my oil temp up. Around 10 degrees or below, I close off the inlets with duct tape in order to keep temps up. When fabricating a door, one should make plans for failure mode. I figured that if my installation had a failure that the door would fail open due to the inrush of air. Wrong. The "L" braket I bent out of .040" failed within the first 5 hours and the door failed closed. I had to land and wire the door open. I then fabricated an "L" bracket out of angle and a piece of .062" and this has worked fine for several hundred hours. I did put a spring on the installation so if the bracket fails, the spring pulls the door open. The ball valve in the system than John Darby mentioned might be an easy way to control temps. Warren Bishop is using this method on his six as well. I would think it would be a good idea to spring load the valve open if it's possible. The only downside to this installation is a little more weight and more connections to leak. Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy
>Hello All > As long as we're talking about canopy, I would like to solicit comments >/ experiences about Tip-Up vs Slider. I don't need to decide yet, but I'm >always (literally, always!) thinking ahead. Pros 'n cons?? > David Wentzell > Wings - Racine, WI David, The archives would be a great place to check this out as there has been a lot of discussion in the past. My six has a tip up and I've just been involved with the installation of a slider. My hat is off to anyone who builds the slider and has a really good fit. I feel that the tip up is much easier to build. If I were building, again, I'd go for the tip up. I like the visibility out of the tip up, it's lighter, better looking (uh oh) and I think might seal a little better against the cold. With the struts installed, you can taxi with the canopy open although the slider would be a little better in this instance. I still wouldn't trade. You and I probably opened a can of worms with this discussion but it's more interesting than talking about primer. Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com>
Subject: Re: Propeller For Sale
Just curious about the performance you got with this prop, and why you are selling it? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com>
Subject: Intercoms, cockpit noise, and mics
On Sun, 15 Nov 1998, MICHAEL wrote: > > I couldn't get a voice actuated system to work > satisfactorily in mine because of the cockpit noise. Good luck. I seem to have a thing for airplanes with noisy cockpits. I have had situations where voice actuated intercoms don't work because of the high noise level and thought there was nothing I could do. I was always under the impression that the "best" stuff would perform the best. I purchased David Clark headsets but never was really happy with the performance. Finally, thinking, "one headset is as good (bad?) as another," I purchased a pair of Softcomm headsets because someone was running a special and the price was right. I was quite surprised how much better they performed. I was able to turn the squelch much looser than I could with the DCs. This led to some informal testing of headset microphones in various aircraft. Recently I started out with an amplified dynamic mic on my helmet because several people told me that the military amplified dynamic mic is supposed to handle cockpit noise better than electret mics. I was unimpressed and asked the vendor to send me an electret mic to use in place of the dynamic. He told me in no uncertain terms that the dynamic is *MUCH* better than the electret in a high noise level but he would send me one just to prove it to myself. Turns out the electret works much better in both my RV-4 and my Yak. OTOH, my Softcomm's are still the champ in the noisy cockpit. BTW, the Oregon Aero "Mic Muff" helps a lot too. So, if you are having intercom problems and you don't think there is anything you can do, borrow various headsets and try them. You may find a solution where you thought one didn't exist. Clearly not all mics are created equal. It sure would be nice if headset reviews would test the microphones as well as the earspeakers and ANR. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane (916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1 (916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: About to start the canopy
Paul, ... Will Cretsingers canopy construction notes are on my web site at: <http://www.flash.net/~gila>http://www.flash.net/~gila ...and they do cover the tip-up canopy version. I just improved the formatting of the notes, and will upload the new copy late Sunday night. The content won't change though, so the present information is OK. Gil Alexander RV6A, #20701 finishing kit ... just mounted canopy fwd. metal trim fairing strips. > > > I am about to start my canopy, and would like to know if any of you who have > completed the tip up canopy have any words of wisdom that are not in the > plans, manual, Justice notes, etc....Can I learn from anyone else's mistakes > out there? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > <http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er > Waiting on finish kit mailto:gila(at)flash.net Gil Alexander, Los Angeles, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: Larry Foss <lfoss(at)silcom.com>
Subject: Re: Propeller For Sale
MICHAEL wrote: > > > Just curious about the performance you got with this prop, and > why you are selling it? > The performance with this prop is fantastic. At gross I get 2000' a minute and 190mph cruise. And I am still on the fence about selling it but if I get my price I'll let it go. I will be looking for a PA-12 to do some back-country flying this summer. Or another antique airplane. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Air tool quality
Date: Nov 15, 1998
I have two 3/8" air drills, both have worked fine so far for building my RV 6A (now finishing the wings), one is a Sears Craftsman, the other a no name from Harbor freight. Both are inexpensive and I would recomend either. The only comment have is to watch where the air is exhausted. The Harbor freight drill exhausts through the bottom ot the handle and the Sears exhausts through the top of the case, just to the left and in line with the bit. The Sears blows rivets and every thing else off my bench and can be a nuisance, I'll use the Harbor whenever I can since I don't have to chase everything. Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: Starter advice
>I see three models on the market: Lamar, Sky-Tech, and >MagnaFlite (Electrosystems). Any recommendation? (or I guess I could >overhaul my old one, but it weighs a ton) check out the B&C too . . . first lightweight on the market and the only starter to go on Robinson Helicopters you put on the airplane and weighs about 8 pounds less than the Prestoheavy . . . give Bill a call at 316.283.8000 Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========= < If you continue to do > < What you've always done > < You will continue to be > < What you've always been. > ================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 1998
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy
> Hello All > As long as we're talking about canopy, I would like to solicit comments > / experiences about Tip-Up vs Slider. I don't need to decide yet, but I'm > always (literally, always!) thinking ahead. Pros 'n cons?? > David Wentzell Tip up has better visibility and is easier to make. It is easier to cool your self off with a slider though. DGM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Nov 15, 1998
Subject: More Comments from the List Fund Raiser...
Dear Listers, I've been receiving a lot of very nice comments from members regarding the List and how it has helped them. I thought it would be nice to share a few more of them with everyone. The System Fund Raiser has been going very well and I am planning to post a "Contributing Member List" on Wednesday or Thursday of this week. There's still plenty of time to get your contribution in, however, and assure that *your* name is on this week's Contributing Member List. Please use the following SSL Secure URL to make your credit card contribution or you may also make a donation by sending a personal check to the US Mail address shown below. http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you for all the nice comments and especially for the wonderful support! Matt Dralle List Admin. "This List is even more invaluable to those of us who live where other builders are few and far between." -Nigel Marshall, France "The List is my builders group!" -Vincent Himsl "[I] use the heck out of the Archives..." -Warren Moore "Couldn't build the plane without it!" -Tom Sargent "Much useful information." -Tony Colucci "...invaluable in building my RV-6A." -Steve White "...it provides a wealth of information not otherwise available." -Andrew SanClemente "Great stuff so far... ...lots of ideas already." -Gary Palinkas "...would not be able to participate in [this sport] unless I could receive all this support from other builders around the world." -Johann Johannsson "I have received enough entertainment to feel guilty if I do not contribute something..." -Gary Sobek "Couldn't have accomplished this without the List." -Wes Hays "[The] List is a god-send for me..." -Dennis Hart "I love the search engine..." -Roy, AK "The new new search engine is pretty quick - impressive." -Tim Bronson Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Michael with >really careful building you should be able to fly for $30,000 to >$32,000 total for a bare bones VFR RV. Whatever the cost and however >you equip you RV it is worth it. > >Jerry Springer RV-6 N906GS First flight July 14, 1989 :-) Hillsboro, >OR >jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com > > I also don't mean to take a shot at the builder of the post that Jerry was replying to, but I felt the same way. An RV-6A with a gyro system, navaid auto pilot, etc, etc, is not really a bare bones VFR RV. I entirely agree that a builder with some restraint (hard to do I know) can build a very nice RV-6(A) for about $30,000 U.S. I would like to ad (and this sort of follows the evolution of Jerry's RV-6 that he was talking about. If you need to build on a tight budget... go ahead and dream the panel that you would some day like to have in your RV, and then build it. Then make some nicely painted matching covers to cover all of the holes that will be used later. Use black oxide instrument screws and brass nuts to mount them (this stuff is cheap). To be honest with you this is a very professional way of doing a panel, use up every bit of space with standard equipment holes and such that you can. Do it with a very prefessional layout (copy someone elses if you have to). You will have a nice looking panel even if all of the holes aren't filled, and over the years as you add Christmas gifts it wont look all hacked up. You can even do this with mountings for antenas, and you could probably even borrow an auto pilot servo and have everything ready to just bolt in some day. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Drilling the top fuselage skin F-675
Date: Nov 16, 1998
>Frank Justice says that if you pilot drill the bulkheads you can >position >the F-675 skin, reach in and drill it from the outside without >crawling >inside. I pilot drilled and put on the skin, but it doesn't look like >I can >reach in and drill the F-608 bulkhead to the skin. Have any of you >out >there been able to drill this skin to the bulkheads without crawling >inside? > >Steve Soule > > If you turn the fuse. upside down on saw horses you can stand in the cockpit area and reach in to a good majority of the holes. As mentioned by others, it is not a very big deal to lay some boards in to lay on though. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler RV6
Date: Nov 16, 1998
> >I guess some of this depends on the size of the cooler. - And it also depends on the size of engine. An O-360 is a little wider than an O-320 which moves the cooler outboard a little farther from the motor mount. - I don't know >if >there is a 'standard' here. I used a used s/w on mine (from the local >FBO), >don't remember the size etc. But placed it vertically on the rear of >the >left baffle. It fit with about 1/4'' or less space between its flange >and >the eng. mt. To help out, I ground down an arch (flattened half >moon?) in >the flange of the cooler. It gave more clearance and apparently did >the >trick as I never got any marks on the eng. mt. paint. - I have always done this on RV-6(A)'s just to be sure. The engine moves around a lot more than most builders might think, and very often it does the most shaking during start up and shut down. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
I agree with the guy's recommending the Sioux 1/4 inch palm drill. Of course this best tool thing falls into the catagory of the perfect airplane. Perfect airplanes are not possible and excellent work can be done with junk tools by determined individuals. I would not get a heavy clunky reversible air motor. For sheet metal work the pro's use the 2600 RPM or faster palm drills by Sioux and IR makes a very nice 1/4 palm drill but you will not find it at the local K-Mart. You will have to drill something in the range of 15000 holes in never a waste of money. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sylvain Duford" <sylvain(at)duford.com>
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
Date: Nov 15, 1998
When I bought my tool kit from Avery, I asked to upgrade the drill to the small Sioux (1427, $249) and I'm really glad I did. The drill is probably the most used tool so it is quite important. This drill is very light and small, fits the hand perfectly, has a very precise throttle, and is surprisingly quiet. Probably the best decision I made on tools. Highly recommended. Sylvain RV-8 Right Wing From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> Date: Sunday, November 15, 1998 6:37 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Air tool quality > >I bought my tools used, and the guy I bought them from had all the cheaper >stuff. I have a Tatco squeezer and a Nesco air drill. The Tatco has held up >great, and really gets the job done, but the air drill is starting to crap >out a little. My chuck is about stripped out, and it siezes alot. One of the >nicer Sioux reversables is on my Christmas list, and Brown Aviation Tool has >them on sale. > >Moe Colontonio >moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net >Check out my RV-8 Page at: >http://tabshred.com/moe > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Prepunched wing skins
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Jeff, mine ended up flush with the rib flange with little or no overhang. Steve Soule Is the root end of the skins flush with the rootrib flange? In other words, does the skin overhang the rib flange toward the wing root? My guess from checking the plans is that it is flush and does not have an overhang. Can anyone that has the skins on confirm this for me? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: About to start the canopy
Paul, A note of caution. I spent many an hour getting a "perfect fit" between the forward edge of the canopy sheet metal and the fuselage top sheet. Unfortunately, I had clecos holding the forward top fuselage sheet metal to the bulkhead in front of the instrument panel. Not paying attention late one night. I lifted the canopy forcing the leading edge of the canopy sheet against the clecos and stretching the sheet and putting "waves" into my previously straight and perfectly aligned canopy. Nothing I could do later (including attempts to shrink the skin) ever restored that nice original fit. It aggravates me to this day very time I look at it. So one day I know I will do the canopy over again. Pit fall to avoid - make certain all clecos are removed from the top forward sheet before raising the canopy (Tip up only). Hope this helps you avoid this one %@#$ bit of stupidity I own up to. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW 8 Hrs and Still Humming Paul Besing wrote: > > > I am about to start my canopy, and would like to know if any of you who have > completed the tip up canopy have any words of wisdom that are not in the > plans, manual, Justice notes, etc....Can I learn from anyone else's mistakes > out there? > > Paul Besing > RV-6A (197AB) Arizona > http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er > Waiting on finish kit > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: cecilth(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: cost Survey
Date: Nov 16, 1998
A couple months ago I replaced the one in my shop with a 60 gallon compressor for about $400 from Harbor Freight. It was made in the USA. Most fo Harbor Frieght stuff is from China. Cecil Hatfield Thousand Oaks. CA writes: >I'm looking for a good air compressor. >Has any one heard of a company called Quincy? >I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud. >What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: FAA BANS RV-LIST
FAA administrator, Jane Garvey, announced today in Washington that the RV-List operated by Matt Dralle (On the left coast!) was to be shut down. Citing the 51% rule as the reason for the shut down Garvey explained that with the advent of Vans Quick Build Kits the RV-List offered so much additional assistance to the builders that they no longer met the 51% criteria! "These builders are really pushing the envelope!" Garvey was quoted as saying. "They get all there builder questions answered by one simple E-Mail to this list! They no longer have to spend hours trying to figure out the plans and the manuals supplied by the kit builder. This significantly reduces build time and they make far fewer mistakes. It has taken most of the fun out of being the Administrator and besides, that Dralle guy has nicer hair than me!" She also noted. Rumor has it that Vans also supports the ban because they have noticed that the their sales of replacement parts has significantly decreased since people get advice on how to do it the right way the first time from "one quick question" to the List. We were not able to confirm this rumor however. It was suggested by Moe Colontino that builders supply their serial numbers to the list administrator and if they cross check to a Quick Build serial number then they would not be allowed on the list. Moe also asked that if anyone had a spare empennage and NON-Quickbuild serial number he would be interested in purchasing it. Doug Rozendaal asked the administrator if it wasn't possible that she was just jealous because Matt Dralle calls himself an administrator too? (The List Administrator) To which Garvey replied, "Absolutely not! I can care less what he calls himself! Don't you fly that pink airplane I saw at Oshkosh? We'll have to have a closer look at that machine!" After which Rozendaal withdrew his question. Chet Razer and some others at this point in the meeting asked Ms. Garvey if there was any more beer since they were done flying for the day anyway. To which Ms. Garvey responded that that "was an inappropriate question at such a meeting! " After which Ms. Garvey was bombarded with questions about bolt torque, Extra storage space in RV's, numerous engine questions, and finally some misguided newbie asked her about PRIMER! After tearing her hair out (no wonder Matt's looks better) Ms. Garvey suggested that maybe she better have another look at the RV-List ban and reassess her position. She said she is open to more public input if you don't mention PRIMER! You can contact the Administrator at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution.html Please have your Credit Card ready! Or if you wish, you can send your opinions and a generous check too: Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94550 If you even smiled once, won't you contribute? AL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William G. Knight" <wknight(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Not necessarily so. The slider may in fact be easier to build. The tip up presents big problems when you open it and it has been raining as water will spash all over your radios. This has happened to a local builder three times and he has had to replace his radios each time. The tip up also looks "hokey" and can't be opened much on ground for cooling. The view from inside it, in my judgement, is like some kind of carnival ride. Though some builders think this is neat and "new age," it ain't traditional. From: Douglas G. Murray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 2:04 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy > > > > >> Hello All >> As long as we're talking about canopy, I would like to solicit comments >> / experiences about Tip-Up vs Slider. I don't need to decide yet, but I'm >> always (literally, always!) thinking ahead. Pros 'n cons?? >> David Wentzell > >Tip up has better visibility and is easier to make. It is easier to cool your self off with a slider >though. > >DGM > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: Survival Gear Storage Underneath Seat Ribs
Lothar Klingmuller wrote: > > > Listers, I am planning to make the entire seat floor removable so I can use > this space for storing survival gear, emergency water and first aid kits. I can't answer the structural question because I have not reached that point in my kit yet... However, I think the basic idea needs to be addressed. I am assuming that you are seriously considering flying into the bush and not merely trying to completely accessorize your a/c (no criticism implied to the latter). If so, then my first advice is to take a survival class - the kind where they make you go out and practice the skills. Worthless items in an aircraft: altitude above you, runway behind you, fuel in the truck, and gear you can't use. Next, consider the possible crash scenarios. It could be anything between a forced landing to a severe crash into rock and trees (for example). In the latter case, you might not survive the landing so gear location is moot. In the former case, you have all the time in the world to recover your gear. Heck, you could even sling a tarp over the wing and have a nice little tent. Too bad you didn't pack a cooler of beer and steaks with your survival gear :). But the situation could be somewhere between, where you must leave the a/c as quickly as possible and not return. Perhaps you went down in a lake (only alternative to trees), or the plane is burning. This is why military flight gear has the survival kit with the pilot - where/when he goes, the gear goes with him. After taking a real hard-nosed course, you realize that all you really need is to have your head attached, but there are some things that really help. Fortunately, they are pretty small - a knife, spool of nylon cord, matches or (better yet) firestarter, needle and thread, thin fishline and hooks. Don't forget your essential medicines (prescriptions) and add aspirin, burn creme, and a liquid antiseptic. This should all fit in a large pocket or two. Water might be your big problem but if you can't find it, chances are you won't be able to carry enough to help - you'll be better off to depend on quick retrieval. In any case, any remaining items could be termed luxury but if they are not useless they should be put where they can be retrieved quickly. If my a/c was sinking and I could grab one thing? I think I'd go for the ELT, but it depends on the location and situation. Anyway, to get to the point of this overlong message - if I were to pack anything between the floor ribs, it would be the least essential stuff from a survival perspective - say, my luggage . I've actually given this some thought as I expect to do some cross country flying and even possibly South of our border, and I expect to have an old hunting vest with my basic gear (that's where I learned, hunting in the South with an uncle who had no use for fancy toys) on me and a kit sitting *on top of my baggage* in the back. PatK - RV-6A - Still looking for a building space for fuselage :( ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy
> The slider may in fact be easier to build. ### Not so! :^( . The tip up presents big problems when you open it and it has been raining as water will >spash all over your radios. This has happened to a local builder three times >and he has had to replace his radios each time. ### I would think that fellow would put a simple cover over the area after the second time. It would appear a trend was happening there! Well it was easy to replace the radios...he didn't have feet where his head should be while replacing them. :^) >" it ain't traditional. ### but tip up (or tip sidewise) is the RV tradition! Slider is new age! ;^) And have a really good day! Denny Harjehausen - RV-6 Lebanon, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Hokey? Carnival ride? How can you judge any RV to be hokey or appear like a carnival ride? Traditional? What's traditional? When you make comments like that, you are really slamming the decisions of those of us who decide to be non-traditional, carnival riding, hokey builders. Give the guy a break...he was just stating a fact that there is better visability....and yes, I think that the vast majority of builders will agree that the tip up is easier to build. We are here to exchange helpful information, not to slam RV's or their builders. As for the guy who got water on his radios, maybe he should have learned his lesson the first time, and either put a gutter of some type over the radios, or how about this? Dry the canopy off before you open it! I know most builders here would not let three radios be destroyed! Paul Besing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy
> > > > Not necessarily so. The slider may in fact be easier to build. The tip up > presents big problems when you open it and it has been raining as water will > spash all over your radios. This has happened to a local builder three times > and he has had to replace his radios each time. The tip up also looks > "hokey" and can't be opened much on ground for cooling. The view from inside > it, in my judgement, is like some kind of carnival ride. Though some > builders think this is neat and "new age," it ain't traditional. IMHO: The only way the view could ever look like a carnival is for you to indulge in a few aerobatics - I thought that was one of the compelling reasons to build & fly an RV :-)) I can concur that the rain concern is real - Haven't a few builders placed a false skin over that area to deflect any excess moisture? I don't understand how a slider could be easier as there are lots more parts to build. More parts mean more areas to get to fit properly. Is this why the slider is easier?- 'cause you can mis - match more parts to cover up the other mistakes? I do like the "cool look" of an open canopy while taxiing but I would rather have a 'hokey' look when not having to look around a windshield frame when avoiding traffic on final. DGM RV-6 Tip up canopy - and proud of it!! :-) Southern Alberta. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mikel(at)dimensional.com
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: Re: FAA BANS RV-LIST
>FAA administrator, Jane Garvey, announced today in Washington that the >RV-List operated by Matt Dralle (On the left coast!) was to be shut down. > If you even smiled once, won't you contribute? I did and I have. C'mon, gang. This list is like Clecos: it does one hell of a job, and nothing would work better. When you consider how much you use the information on this list compared to some expensive tool you've only used a few times, this list is like a very useful, inexpensive tool. Maybe one of the most used tools in your toolbox. Chuck in a few bucks. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Conditional inspection in progress..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillJW(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: Engine monitors
Am to the point of buying engine monitors/fuel totalizer. Who has knowledge of the Allegro products? Would appreciate info on those, Audio flight av-8 and av-10, or other recommendations. Thanks. hilljw(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: About to start the canopy
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > I am about to start my canopy, and would like to know if any of you who have > completed the tip up canopy have any words of wisdom that are not in the > plans, manual, Justice notes, etc....Can I learn from anyone else's mistakes > out there? Paul, There are two big lessons I learned. The instructions to keep cutting at the front of the canopy to let the rear pivot into position did not work for me. I cut as much as possible at the front and still lacked about 1 and 1/4 inch of being in position at the rear. It was necessary to cut a wedge at the center cut to get the rear into position. I spent a lot of time making the heavy duty fluting tool and fluting the canopy frame to make it conform exactly to the fuselage side but when I put the plexi on it sprang back out of conformance from the pressure exerted by the plexi. If I would not have fluted at all I think the fit would have been just right (The frame was under bent). Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6Q N441LP Reserved Wiring & FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Air tool quality >Sent: 11/15/98 10:46 PM >Received: 11/16/98 8:15 AM >From: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: N5lp > > > > >Moe, > Have you been good enough this year to deserve a Sioux Drill? :) > When I built my six, I saved a little money on several tools, one of them >my air drill. Mine was just a generic, 3/8" drill. It got the job done and >was cheap. In the year before I moved to Wyoming, I helped build a Glastar >in my shop. The kit owner was a great guy. I had admired his Sioux, 1/4" >drill on many occasions. Before I moved, Capt. Bill presented me with one >that he'd bought from Cleavland. This is a very good drill! Very quiet >with a very good teasing trigger. It's small which makes it easier to get >into tight quarters. If I knew then what I know now, I would have bought >one right off the bat. When you think of how much drilling there is to do >the cost over many holes:) The two tools I have enjoyed the most are my Black and Decker Workmate and my 1/4" Sioux drill. I used the drill at Avery's sheet metal school and splurged on the spot. It is a terrific (and expensive) tool. I have to use a friends generic 3/8" air drill once and a while and I just grit my teeth. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6Q N441LP Reserved Wiring & FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: Canopy
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Listers, The solution to the tip-up canopy allowing water in onto your radios when you open a wet canopy, it to install a light, waterproof velcro'ed in, splash guard over your radios. I used a light waterproof vinyl material from a local fabric shop. It's installed with Velcro for easy access to the area behind the panel. The canopy hinges do protrude through the material, and water could get into this area if there was a lot running off the canopy, or there was a driving rain. But this area drains directly to the floor, not onto the radios. One could easily make this area waterproof by installing the properly shaped basin with a drain (fiberglass project...) With 1165 Hrs in five years, (many of it IFR when exiting the plane was quite wet experience), I've yet to have a water related radio failure. As for the rest of the comments, to each his own. IMHO I find the tip-up to be much more practical than the slider.... Easier to get in, and better visibility.... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > From: William G. Knight [SMTP:wknight(at)adelphia.net] > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 8:45 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy > > > > Not necessarily so. The slider may in fact be easier to build. The tip > up > presents big problems when you open it and it has been raining as > water will > spash all over your radios. This has happened to a local builder three > times > and he has had to replace his radios each time. The tip up also looks > "hokey" and can't be opened much on ground for cooling. The view from > inside > it, in my judgement, is like some kind of carnival ride. Though some > builders think this is neat and "new age," it ain't traditional. > From: Douglas G. Murray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, November 16, 1998 2:04 AM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hello All > >> As long as we're talking about canopy, I would like to solicit > comments > >> / experiences about Tip-Up vs Slider. I don't need to decide yet, > but I'm > >> always (literally, always!) thinking ahead. Pros 'n cons?? > >> David Wentzell > > > >Tip up has better visibility and is easier to make. It is easier to > cool > your self off with a slider > >though. > > > >DGM > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com>
Subject: OIL COOLER
Stumped again, need to order fittings hose and hardware for the oil cooler but I don't know where the connections are on the accessory case for oil out and return, also what size hose 1/2 or 3/8? any help appreciated. thanks Wayne RV-4 engine baffles. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy
I added a metal box/shield that covers the avionics suite top and sides and drains any water to the back of the suite and sides. I also intend to add a strip of vinyl to cover the area from the instrument panel to the bulkhead as has been suggested by Fred. Thus far, I do get a little moisture on the floor, but none on the avionics. I like tilt up, but have nothing against the slider. Didn't have a scarf to hang over the side, so went with the tip up. Ed Stucklen, Frederic IFC wrote: > > > Listers, > > The solution to the tip-up canopy allowing water in onto your radios > when you open a wet canopy, it to install a light, waterproof velcro'ed > in, ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: charles(at)onramp.net (charles young)
Subject: Re: Canopy
This is America! We have a choice or preference, it matters little, otherwise. My choice was the slider, becasue my opinion, it looks better. And besides, when taxi-ing out, you can let your silk scarf blow in the wind! Charles Young RV-6A Slider Almost ready to fly. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Vincent Himsl <himsl(at)mail.wsu.edu>
Subject: Re: rudder oil canning
Hello, My rudder has the same problem. I decided to leave it an move on. My flaps and ailerons show no sign of oil caning. I followed the Orndoff method of drilling the skin to a flat surface, etc. My oil caning is only on one side of the rudder which leads me to believe it has something to do with how I completed the trailing edge bend. Not sure though so will watch this thread with interest. Regards, Vince Himsl RV8 Wings Moscow, Idaho USA At 02:26 PM 98.11.14 , you wrote: > > I just got my rudder into the V bock jig for the first time and >clecoed it together (the end ribs aren't drilled yet and the skin hasn't >been drilled to the spar). There's an area on the lower right side that >oil cans in when I push on it. ..... > My question is, is this serious enough to try to do anything about? ........ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com>
Subject: Tow bar
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Does anyone know of a good quality tow bar for RV6A how much and where. Thanks ahead. Plus I have the electric trim for the elevator dual control with splitter, do I wire them together or have to use some sort of relay after the splitter. RV6A/fuselage planejoe(at)flnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com>
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
n5lp wrote: > > What's a workmate? Is that some type of a table??? > > The two tools I have enjoyed the most are my Black and Decker Workmate > and my 1/4" Sioux drill. I used the drill at Avery's sheet metal school > and splurged on the spot. It is a terrific (and expensive) tool. I have > to use a friends generic 3/8" air drill once and a while and I just grit > my teeth. > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > Pacer N8025D > RV-6Q N441LP Reserved > > Wiring & FWF > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Leif Stener" <leif.stener(at)swipnet.se>
Subject: Re: Trade oil pans
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Ernesto Sanchez <es12043(at)utech.net> Date: den 15 november 1998 23:05 Subject: RV-List: Trade oil pans > >I have an O-320-E2A (TC274 ). I would like to trade oil pans with someone. >I'm looking for a pan off a fuel injected IO-320 (it has the intake to the >rear instead of the bottom like mine) that would bolt on to my engine. > >Ernesto Sanchez >es12043(at)utech.net > >I have a sump from one IO320B1A fore sale. E-mail me >leif.stener(at)swipnet.se< Leif Stener RV-6 finish-kit > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: About to start the canopy
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Will's notes are very helpful so I would recommend them. I went with screws all around and like this option. I like how my canopy fits on the tip up frame but have a slight problem on the passenger side window. The Plexiglas fits well at the roll bar and is snug against the top-rear where it meets the skin. There is a gap of about 5/8" between the skin and the Plexiglas about 2/3 rds of the way down on the passenger side. The pilot side is fine. I tried heating the garage to 100 degrees, took the tip-up canopy off, covered the opening with a blanket and placed a small heater behind the baggage compartment. I was hoping to heat the Plexiglas enough so it would relax to meet the skin but this didn't seem to work. Between two of my screws in this area are 1/8' puckers in the skin......oh well, I guess its not the perfect plane. I don't know what I could have done to keep this from happening. I just got done with fiberglassing the front of the canopy. I also had the gap between the forward top skin and the canopy to tight and when I lifted the canopy received my obligatory wrinkles in the canopy skin. This didn't turn out to be a problem because when I fiberglassed the front of the canopy, I ran the fiberglass all the way to the edge of the skin since I choose to build up this area quite a bit to alleviate the radical bend. I now have a very smooth transition between the canopy and forward skin and all those wrinkles are covered over. Another tip. One place where the canopies like to break is the transition between the side rails (where the canopy is sandwiched between two pieces of sheet metal) and the front of the canopy (where it is just resting on top of the skin). I built this area up under where the canopy sits so the canopy has a smooth, WELL SUPPORTED, transition. Without this, there is an air gap under the canopy and if you put a screw to close to this area, a crack is likely. Ross Mickey 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com>
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: Vinyl Covering
I'm new to the RV-List and to my RV-6A project, but this has been nagging me: I'm about to start riveting the skins on the horizontal stabilizer, and I want to strip away just enough of the vinyl protection to allow riveting. My question is how long can I leave on the rest of the vinyl? I've read that it shouldn't be left on "too long," but what happens if I leave it on until I'm done with the entire airplane? If I have to take it off now, do I need to worry about protecting the aluminum until it's primed and painted? Peter Christensen Marietta, GA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV8 ELT location
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Greetings folks, This is primarily a -8 question, but any reply is welcome. Where is the *best* place to mount an ACK ELT? (It's the big, yellow thing, about the size of a brick...and weighs about as much with batteries installed.) I'm thinking of placing it on a bracket attached to a fuselage longeron or stringer, right behind the 808 bulkhead, with access via the removable baggage hold. The main issue is where to put that big ole antenna! I do NOT want to buy another antenna, and would like to mount it in the same place..inside the aircraft. The instructions aren't very clear about attenuation issues if this is done. I also understand that the ELT is to be mounted as far aft as possible, but to have it perhaps mounted up under the instrument panel where I can easily access it without having to remove anything would be great. I suppose crash damage (yeeech...horrid thought) is the reason for aft mounting. I do not want it in the cabin..that's for sure, so...what other options might there be? Brian Denk RV8 #379 pics at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Slider vs Tip Up
Date: Nov 16, 1998
I opted for the tip up because its lighter, you don't have that bow in the way all the time, and its a bit cheaper.....in over 3.5yrs of flying I have never had water come into the plane upon opening....I have a cover for when the plane is left outside at away airports, and at home its in the hanger....as to ventilation, you can pop the canopy up and turn the safety handle to get air, and with the vents open being fed by the prop wash I never had overheating problems for pilot or passenger. But, "You pays yer money, and takes yer choice!" John RV-6A flying 3.5yrs or so ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: John and Iola Dralle <jdralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: FAA BANS RV-LIST
> >>FAA administrator, Jane Garvey, announced today in Washington that the >>RV-List operated by Matt Dralle (On the left coast!) was to be shut down. > >> If you even smiled once, won't you contribute? > >I did and I have. C'mon, gang. This list is like Clecos: it does one hell of >a job, and nothing would work better. When you consider how much you use the >information on this list compared to some expensive tool you've only used a >few times, this list is like a very useful, inexpensive tool. Maybe one of >the most used tools in your toolbox. Chuck in a few bucks. > >Michael >RV-4 N232 Suzie Q >Conditional inspection in progress..... > > > > > Matt. This guy is OK!!!!! Dad =============================================================== John & Iola Dralle | 2937 Layton Drive | Davis CA 95616 USA | jdralle(at)matronics.com | 530-758-4554 =============================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Re: rudder oil canning
could someone please describe oilcanning again > >Hello, > >My rudder has the same problem. I decided to leave it an move on. My >flaps and ailerons show no sign of oil caning. I followed the Orndoff >method of drilling the skin to a flat surface, etc. My oil caning is only >on one side of the rudder which leads me to believe it has something to do >with how I completed the trailing edge bend. > >Not sure though so will watch this thread with interest. > >Regards, >Vince Himsl >RV8 Wings >Moscow, Idaho USA > > > >At 02:26 PM 98.11.14 , you wrote: >> >> I just got my rudder into the V bock jig for the first time and >>clecoed it together (the end ribs aren't drilled yet and the skin hasn't >>been drilled to the spar). There's an area on the lower right side that >>oil cans in when I push on it. ..... >> My question is, is this serious enough to try to do anything about? >........ > > > > Dan Dan Wiesel Interlink Recruiting 408-551-6554 dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Wanted:Books or Videos RV related
I'll send you some cockpit pix if you give me your address. Are you ready for cockpit and panel already??? halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Doing a new panel (was: cost Survey)
<364E1D8C.3A89(at)arlington.net> <364F1F60.694CB590(at)ix.netcom.com> > >If you need to build on a tight budget... go ahead and dream the panel >that you would some day like to have in your RV, and then build it. >Then make some nicely painted matching covers to cover all of the holes >that will be used later. You have more flexibility with the RV-6 than you do with the RV-4 or RV-8 when constructing the ultimate panel. Even so, I would recommend making several identical but unpunched panels. You use one for your bare-bones starter panel and then have one you can work on later when you are ready to install an instrument panel that costs as much as the rest of the airplane. Once the new panel is finally fleshed out, you replace the old panel in toto. I just completed that process for my RV-4 and if I had had an extra blank panel I could have kept my -4 flying while building the new panel. As it was, my airplane was down for almost two years (I worked slowly) while I did the new panel, electrical system, and engine. The new panel took the lion's share of the time. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Subject: Re: Vinyl Covering
Date: Nov 16, 1998
The covering is not to protect from corrosion. It is only to protect against scratches, etc. The sheet alluminum that we deal with has an alclad coating on it, that if you leave it un-primed, it will be protected. (lets don't start a priming thread) Basically, most builders take it off when they are done with a part before they prime it. Just be sure to take it off before you rivet! Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV8 ELT location
From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER)
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Brian; I put my ELT right where the plans show that the battery would go if you had to mount the battery in back. This worked great and was a strong, sturdy place for it. Be extra careful about getting it in the way of the bellcrank for the elevator. The factory ran their elt antenna horizontally under the rear VS-HS fairing. I could see no way to do this without cutting my antenna, so I ran RG-58 cable out to one wingtip, and will install the antenna horizontally in the wingtip, mounting it to the tip rib and bend back along the wing tip edge. This has been done by quite a few successfully. As I understand it, all new ELT's are required to be installed with a remote panel activation switch, and that is what I did. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA (canopy, cowling, and fiberglass stuff) N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > >Greetings folks, > >This is primarily a -8 question, but any reply is welcome. Where is >the >*best* place to mount an ACK ELT? (It's the big, yellow thing, about >the >size of a brick...and weighs about as much with batteries installed.) >I'm thinking of placing it on a bracket attached to a fuselage >longeron >or stringer, right behind the 808 bulkhead, with access via the >removable baggage hold. The main issue is where to put that big ole >antenna! I do NOT want to buy another antenna, and would like to mount > >it in the same place..inside the aircraft. The instructions aren't >very >clear about attenuation issues if this is done. I also understand that > >the ELT is to be mounted as far aft as possible, but to have it >perhaps >mounted up under the instrument panel where I can easily access it >without having to remove anything would be great. > >I suppose crash damage (yeeech...horrid thought) is the reason for aft > >mounting. I do not want it in the cabin..that's for sure, so...what >other options might there be? > >Brian Denk >RV8 #379 >pics at: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/index.html > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Alternator Wiring
I've noticed a difference in the wiring diagram between Vans and AeroElectric Connection. AeroElectric connect the "B" lead from the Alternator (Charging wire) first to the Master Relay which then runs to the "Bus" and the Battery. Vans connects the "B" lead from the Alternator first to the "Bus" then to the battery through the Master Relay. Question: Vans arrangment would allow an ammeter on the "Bus" to battery wire to show if current is flowing to the Battery (Charging) or from the Battery (Discharge). Where would you install the Ammeter on the AeroElectric arrangement to show Charge/Discharge of the Battery? The lead between Alt "B" to battery would only show that the Alternator was charging the battery but would not show amount of discharge idf the Alternator fails (Would only show zero.). If it was on the battery to "Bus" lead it would always show discharge. What am I missing? Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dave Binkley <dbinkley(at)argotech.com>
Subject: Wanted:Books or Videos RV related
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Hal, Is your RV- 6A flying yet? I have an RV-6 at Palo Alto. Dave N241DC > From: halk(at)sybase.com [SMTP:halk(at)sybase.com] > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 10:52 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Wanted:Books or Videos RV related > > > I'll send you some cockpit pix if you give me your address. > > Are you ready for cockpit and panel already??? > > > halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 ELT location
Date: Nov 16, 1998
I was just thinking about your solution. In case of a crash, wouldn't it be highly likely that a wing/wing-tip would get ripped off, thereby destroying your antenna or cable? I think this is the kind of stuff we should all keep in mind when installing ELTs. I did 4 years of SAR in Canada, and more often than not when looking for a private plane, the ELT and/or antenna would be malfunctioning, making the search much more difficult. Just my 2 cents worth... Sylvain Duford Bellevue, WA, RV-8 Wings. Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 ELT location From: n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 14:50:54 EST Brian; I put my ELT right where the plans show that the battery would go if you had to mount the battery in back. This worked great and was a strong, sturdy place for it. Be extra careful about getting it in the way of the bellcrank for the elevator. The factory ran their elt antenna horizontally under the rear VS-HS fairing. I could see no way to do this without cutting my antenna, so I ran RG-58 cable out to one wingtip, and will install the antenna horizontally in the wingtip, mounting it to the tip rib and bend back along the wing tip edge. This has been done by quite a few successfully. As I understand it, all new ELT's are required to be installed with a remote panel activation switch, and that is what I did. Von Alexander RV-8 N41VA (canopy, cowling, and fiberglass stuff) N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BrownTool(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: SIOUX Air Drill SALE - Advertisement
Just in time for the Holidays we have the following SIOUX Air Tools on SALE thru 12-31-98 SIOUX Model 1410 Mini Palm Drill - Regularly $249.95 SALE PRICE $199.95 !! SIOUX has also just introduced a REVERSIBLE Mini Palm Drill which will retail for $289.95, but as part of this SALE we are featuring it for $239.95 !! (Model 1410R) SIOUX Industrial Air Drills: 1450HP 1/4" Chuck Regular Price $169.95 SALE PRICE: $144.95 1454HP 3/8" Chuck Regular Price $169.95 SALE PRICE: $144.95 1454HPR 3/8" Chuck - Reversible Reg. Price $199.95 SALE PRICE: $174.95 And last but not least, we are featuring the SIOUX Model 1954HP Straight Line Die Grinder which sells normally for $224.95 in our 1998 catalog for only $149.95 !!! You save $75.00. Again, these prices are good thru December 31, 1998. We offer free ground shipping on any pre-paid order over $65.00. Please call TOLL FREE 1-800-587-3883 to order or request additional information. BROWN AVIATION TOOL SUPPLY CO. 5700 N. Rockwell, Building Two, Suite E Bethany, OK 73008 1-800-587-3883 405-495-4991 FAX 405-495-4992 BrownTool(at)aol.com http://www.browntool.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Subject: phone#
does anyone have the phone number of L P Aero Plastics? I lost thier number..and I have a good case of crs! thanks.....jolly ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: RV8 ELT location
> >Brian; I could see no way to do this >without cutting my antenna, so I ran RG-58 cable out to one wingtip, and >will install the antenna horizontally in the wingtip, mounting it to the >tip rib and bend back along the wing tip edge. >Von Alexander >RV-8 N41VA (canopy, cowling, and fiberglass stuff) >N41VA(at)juno.com Von, No flame intended, but if you unfortunately find yourself actually needing the ELT, what guarantee do you have that the wing will still be with the fuse (and thus the antenna with the ELT)? From a functional point of view this would seem to be the worst possible mounting location. Additionally, there was a discussion regarding this subject some months ago in which a lister pointed out that it is now required to mount the antenna externally. I havent followed up on this to confirm since Im not yet to that point, but will do so when the time comes. I hope to install my antenna alongside my rollbar (RV-4) as I have seen in numerous flying airplanes. If this doesnt survive a crash then it would be unlikely that I would need the ELT anyway. My opinion FWIW. Mike Wills RV-4 fuse willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil Following is the message I rec'd regarding external mounting: If you want info on any TSO punch into this web site: http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/air100/tsocur/Current.htm The requirement for external mounting of ELT antenna is covered under the need to have agency approval for installation procedures and limitations as supplied by the maker under TSO-C91A, para c (1) (iii). Manufacturers will include that requirement in their installation instructions that accompany the unit you purchase if that was after the effective date of the TSO which was a few years back. No retrofitting of existing units was ever required to my knowledge. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com>
Subject: ELT LOCATION
VON In an accident you would have to keep your wings for your ELT transmit. wayne RV-4 engine baffles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 ELT location
> >I put my ELT right where the plans show that the battery would go if you >had to mount the battery in back. ... >so I ran RG-58 cable out to one wingtip, and >will install the antenna horizontally in the wingtip, mounting it to the >tip rib and bend back along the wing tip edge. What is the liklihood that the coax running between the ELT and its antenna out in the wingtip will remain intact in a crash? Usually the wing structure is badly damaged in a crash, even a survivable one. It strikes me that putting the ELT antenna further back on or in the empenage would make a whole bunch more sense. Of course, if you are only putting the ELT in to meet the letter of the regs and don't really care if it actually works, your approach is just fine. Heck, most ELTs don't work in a crash anyway. (They work just fine when you make a hard landing tho'!) Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: Trade oil pans
Date: Nov 17, 1998
I need the opening to be at the rear side of the sump. I want to cowl as close as possible to the bottom of the engine. I want to use an Ellison injector on the back side facing towards the firewall. I was told to look for an IO-320-B1A, originally in a Piper Twin Commanche. I would like to trade straight across with all the intake tubes and oil pump intake if need be. My sump is in great shape. Ernesto Sanchez Santa Maria, CA, 93454-1936 es12043(at)utech.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: donspawn(at)Juno.com
Subject: : Vinyl Covering
Date: Nov 16, 1998
My question is how long can I leave on the rest of the vinyl? I've read that it shouldn't be left on "too long," but what happens if I leave it on until I'm done with the entire airplane? If I have to take it off now, do I need to worry about protecting the aluminum until it's primed and painted? > >Peter Christensen >Marietta, GA > Peter: I remove the inside while fitting, then after the dimpling is done, I remove the outside prior to rivetting. I understand we are to rough it up prior to painting. Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: RV6
Hi, My RV is not flying yet. I hope to be in the air before February tho. Do you belong to the EAA? Your nearest chapter might be the one I go to #338; or maybe you go and I just don't know you? We are about 90% RV builders and flyers. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Jeremy Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com>
Subject: FWIW: #2000 RV
On February 11, 1997 when vansaircraft.com hit the Internet, the completed aircraft counter read just over 1500 aircraft. On November 13, 1998 the counter rolled over to 2000 as the 2000th RV completed was reported to Van's Aircraft. Also, FYI, Van's Aircraft On-Line Information Center is coming December 1998 to www.vansaircraft.com ... ~Jeremy jwb(at)europa.com (I speak for no company, just myself!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Air tool quality
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > > > >n5lp wrote: > >> >> What's a workmate? Is that some type of a table??? >> It is a table and a vise and a tubing holder and a portable work bench and a step stool and a fuselage stand and many other things. Really it is a break-down small work bench where the top is split in two. The two parts of the table being attached to each other with a screw arrangement that allows it to be used as a vise. This vise being made out of wood and having channels cut into the facing surfaces and plastic stobbs that make it very versatile. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM Pacer N8025D RV-6Q N441LP Reserved Wiring & FWF ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Wiring
> >I've noticed a difference in the wiring diagram between Vans and >AeroElectric Connection. > >AeroElectric connect the "B" lead from the Alternator (Charging wire) >first to the Master Relay >which then runs to the "Bus" and the Battery. > >Vans connects the "B" lead from the Alternator first to the "Bus" then >to the battery through >the Master Relay. > >Question: Vans arrangment would allow an ammeter on the "Bus" to battery >wire to show >if current is flowing to the Battery (Charging) or from the Battery >(Discharge). Where >would you install the Ammeter on the AeroElectric arrangement to show >Charge/Discharge >of the Battery? The lead between Alt "B" to battery would only show that >the Alternator >was charging the battery but would not show amount of discharge idf the >Alternator fails >(Would only show zero.). If it was on the battery to "Bus" lead it would >always show discharge. Well, you get to make some choices. What do you want your ammeter to tell you? Here is a diagram for discussion: (b) (bl) +======================= Any of (b), (al), or (bl) may be replaced by a piece of wire if you don't want that function. Also assume that the free end of the battery (negative terminal), alternator, and starter are grounded. If you have (b) then you get to see whether the battery is charging or discharging. Frankly, I have never really found this to be too all fired useful unless the alternator fails. In that case I can use (b) to see how much I am sucking from the battery in order to get some kind of idea as to how long the battery is going to last. On the other hand, a voltmeter will tell me directly what the charge state of the battery is since the voltage will steadily decrease until the battery is dead making the voltmeter the equivalent of a "how much juice is left in the battery" guage. When the alternator is working (al) will let you see just how much load you are putting on the alternator. This shows charging current for the battery and the buss load together. If it drops to zero you know the alternator has quit producing juice. If you know what the load should be, and after a few flights you will, you can quickly calculate the battery charge current in your head. This type of loadmeter is standard on aircraft with multiple power sources (generators or alternators) such as twins. (bl) shows just buss load. Turn everything off and it drops to zero. It doesn't show you what is going on between the alternator and the battery. The only place I have seen this type of guage is in transport aircraft with multiple busses. The interesting thing about this is that no single ammeter will tell you what is going on in your electrical system. It takes at least two of the buggers. With two you can easily calculate the third because it will be the difference of the other two. In my RV-4 I chose to use an alternator loadmeter (al) combined with a voltmeter on the buss to determine the state and health of my electrical system. I expect that, most of the time, the alternator will be working and knowing what it is putting out is a more useful piece of information than how much current is going to/from the battery. If I want to know how much juice is left in the battery after an alternator failure the voltmeter will tell me that. Now, about where to connect the alternator, it doesn't matter whether it is connected to the buss and then on to the master contactor, to the buss side of the starter contactor, or directly to the master contactor. All three will work from an electrical point of view. The advantage of connecting to the buss side of the starter contactor is that the wire from the master/buss to the starter contactor has already passed through the firewall and is therefore available without having to punch additional holes in the firewall. Now you have to figure out how you are going to measure current if you choose to do so because you may decide that a voltmeter is sufficient. (I think that a voltmeter is an absolute necessity.) If you want an alternator loadmeter things are simple because you have one wire (B terminal) coming from the alternator and you just put the ammeter or shunt in series with this lead. If you want buss load you just put the ammeter/shunt between the buss and the battery/alternator. The problem comes when you want to read battery charge/discharge current. You can't just put the ammeter/shunt in series with the battery because the starting current will have to flow through the ammeter/shunt and that is just about guaranteed to fry it. (A really hefty shunt *might* survive such abuse but don't bet on it.) In that case you have to do what I have done in my schematic above and put the ammeter/shunt out of the direct path from battery to starter. In that case I would bring the alternator B lead to the ammeter/shunt terminal that is connected to the buss rather than directly to the buss itself. The goal is to have as few connections as possible between alternator and battery and those connections should be as hefty as possible so that the battery functions as a good filter for ripple and voltage fluctions from the alternator. Recently some companies have started shipping Hall-effect current (amp) sensors. These devices can measure current in a wire by being placed next to or around the wire. That means you don't need to cut or break the wire to measure current. For instance, the AV-8 or AV-10 from Audio Flight Avionics (http://www.rose.com/~afa/) now use such a device. You just clamp the sensor around the wire whose current you wish to measure. It will even work right on the battery cable without damage from starter current. This is a big improvement over shunts. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: engine
I have a 0-320 B3B for sale conical mount All accs. E-Mail me off the if interrested. Pat passpat(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: Engine
I have a 0-320 B3B Lyc for sale all accs appox 1000hrs contact me off the list of you have any interrest.. Pat passpat(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy instructions
Apologies for my recent unintended replies to the whole group.... Since I have sent out too much let me keep this message short. Is there anyone interested in reviewing or helping write sliding canopy instructions? I recently sent the list an outline for instructions which I believe could be a big help for those yet to do the thing. You can see this in the archives at http://www.matronics.com/cgi-bin/searching/ws_script_short.cgi and entering the search string: Cone's & Van's & Kempthorne I would appreciate it if you who have suffered the turbulence of slider installation would look and give me some feedback or even write a piece of it. We owe it to the next 2000! hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: Re: Canopy
In a message dated 11/16/98 6:06:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, wknight(at)adelphia.net writes: << presents big problems when you open it and it has been raining as water will spash all over your radios. >> That is what splash guards are for!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John H Lee" <borgny(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Tip up conopy
Date: Nov 16, 1998
This afternoon I finished the tip up canopy on my RV-6A. Everything came out OK except I can't open it from the outside. Thank goodness I haven't put the floor in yet! Did I put the struts in wrong or is there a spring that I don't know about? John Lee borgny(at)rconnect.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
From: bramsec <bramsec(at)idirect.com>
Subject: Re: Alternator Wiring
Brian Lloyd wrote: > -Well, you get to make some choices. What do you want your ammeter to tell > you? Here is a diagram for discussion: > > (b) > (bl) > +======================= > Hey great responce Brian, that says it all, thank you The only reason I was favouring the (BL) option was recent experience with my van. I noticed that when there is a small load the ammeter is almost zero.(Need to turn the lights and heater fan on to get a good indication of charging) So the difference between a good alternator and a failed one was almost undetectable unless there was a large load. In our case that would probably require the landing light on, something not done too often.However I think I will stay with a volt meter as you suggest Regards Peter (RV6 Toronto) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 1998
Subject: Re: fuseage side skins, RV-6
From: daviddla(at)Juno.com (Blah ba Blah)
Hi, I would like some advise on the fitting of the fuselage side skins in the area between bulkheads 604 and 605. In fitting the seat ribs I matched the outside ribs to the curve of the longeron. Now I find the armrest ribs have a different curve (not as pronounced). In other words, if I fitted the skins, they would bend in at the armrest and then out again to the seatrib area. I think I would like the skin to lay straight from the top to the bottom. Question: Does the side skin change from a curve at the top to a straight area at the bottom? If so I will have to change my outside seat ribs to something closer to the curve of the armrest rib?


November 10, 1998 - November 16, 1998

RV-Archive.digest.vol-fv