RV-Archive.digest.vol-fx
November 23, 1998 - November 29, 1998
Why not turn a rivet out of soft aluminum with a head that will fill to hole
on a lathe?
| From: | Douglas G. Murray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plexi-Glas OPPS!
>
>Listers:
>
>On the last countersink for the rivets on the rear tip up bow in my canopy
I went
weird and
>it is up on the top where everyone will see it - gasp!!
>
>Is there a way to fill a hole in Plexi-glass safely so I can re-
countersink to
>the correct depth. I was thinking of Epoxy resin because it cures almost
clear.
>Has anyone tried this or do I have to live with it?
>
>DGM RV-6
>Southern Alberta
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge |
You are right there is a seal at the engine drive that needs replacing.
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
>
>Ken Hoshowski wrote:
>>
>>
>> Listers,
>> My manifold pressure gauge is sticking after about five years of use.
>> I read somewhere that the line from the engine to the gauge should at
some
>> point be lower that the inlet fitting to the gauge, and that a drain or
>> filter could be installed at this point to occassionally drain any
moisture
>> that accumulates.
>>
>> Has anyone tried this?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
>> Salmon Arm B.C.
>>
>Hi Ken
>How are you doing? I have had the same gauge and line on mine for ten
>years and no problems. I used copper with a couple coils in it and
>drilled a very small hole in the bottom at the lowest point in the line.
>I was told this was standard procedure on some of the older aircraft
>for years.
>Now can someone tell me why I am getting oil in my tachometer? I assume
>that
>the seal must be bad at the tach drive at the engine.
>
>
>__
>__
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>__
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Nick,
Thanks for the warning. Others have told me the same thing.
Craig
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nicholas Knobil
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 1998 8:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: Builders in CT
Dear Mr. Paulson,
Taking a ride with Mr. Stucklen in his RV-6 will be the last thing you do
before speaking with the nice ladies who take orders for airplane kits in
North Plains.
Welcome to the club.
Nick Knobil
RV-8 80549 (Wing Leading Edges)
Bowdoinham, Maine (Merrymeeting Field)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Hargrave" <Bobby.Hargrave(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 Top Skins Backrivet |
FWIW, just completed riveting top skins on left wing using Avery #4580
extra long backriveting set with Avery #635 bucking bar. Very pleased with
results. Skins are smooth with no hint of dimples. Set comes with
attention getter disclaimer from Avery stating to practice before
attempting use on your skins. Yeah, right! Like I got time to practice! The
long set really wants to move around while riveting. The first few shop
heads were ugly. My fear was letting the set slip off the rivet and
punching a drain hole in the top of my wing. Ran my 2x gun with 55psi and
steadied the tip with my free hand while my hostile wife assistant did all
the really skilled work with the complex high tech. #635 bucking bar. The
steadier the tip is held, the better the shop head. I learned this after
setting a couple of hundred rivets. I'm a slow learner. Guess thats what
Avery means when they say practice first. My rivet gun also developed a
case of the farts as another lister has recently experienced. The first
time it happened, my assistant took offense at the sound and threaten a job
action as the #635 narrowly missed my foot. If you are going to do that,
you can buck your own rivets was her quote. I gave the 2x a healthy dose of
Miracle Oil which resulted in an occassional wet fart. Could be the longer
set shank or the teflon thread tape as mentioned since I used both.
Having fun in the garage.
Bob Hargrave RV8
Pensacola FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Top Skins Backrivet |
Bob,
Would you be interested in writing copy during the next fund raiser? :-)
AL
>
>FWIW, just completed riveting top skins on left wing using Avery #4580
>extra long backriveting set with Avery #635 bucking bar. Very pleased with
>results. Skins are smooth with no hint of dimples. Set comes with
>attention getter disclaimer from Avery stating to practice before
>attempting use on your skins. Yeah, right! Like I got time to practice! The
>long set really wants to move around while riveting. The first few shop
>heads were ugly. My fear was letting the set slip off the rivet and
>punching a drain hole in the top of my wing. Ran my 2x gun with 55psi and
>steadied the tip with my free hand while my hostile wife assistant did all
>the really skilled work with the complex high tech. #635 bucking bar. The
>steadier the tip is held, the better the shop head. I learned this after
>setting a couple of hundred rivets. I'm a slow learner. Guess thats what
>Avery means when they say practice first. My rivet gun also developed a
>case of the farts as another lister has recently experienced. The first
>time it happened, my assistant took offense at the sound and threaten a job
>action as the #635 narrowly missed my foot. If you are going to do that,
>you can buck your own rivets was her quote. I gave the 2x a healthy dose of
>Miracle Oil which resulted in an occassional wet fart. Could be the longer
>set shank or the teflon thread tape as mentioned since I used both.
>
>Having fun in the garage.
>
>Bob Hargrave RV8
>Pensacola FL
>
>
>__
>__
>__
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
>
> From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
>
>
> > This is one case where a LUBRICATED (not dry) fit is needed to obtain
> >these torque values. The FAA recommends hydraulic fluid, but I would use a
> >small amount of Fuelube on the threads.
> >
> When I was into auto restorations I learned that to correctly torque a
> threaded fitting (bolt etc.) it should be lubricated - dry will give an
> erroneous reading. this post is the only one I have seen addressing this
> issue. What is correct - wet or dry when torquing?
> Thanks
> Larry McKee
Larry,
... as I said before, AC43.13A is the bible. The basic bolt torque
charts in this bible for AN nut/bolt hardware is quoted as DRY.
EVERY builder should have a copy of this book!!
.... Gil (it's almost always in AC43.13A) Alexander
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Finding Location below Platenut |
Listers, is there a TRICK or method to find the location below a platenut??
I would like to rivet the platenuts into the floor ribs flanges
prior to riveting the ribs to the bulkheads F-604 and F605. But if I do
this, how do I find the exact locations to drill holes in F-639/-640 (the
plates which cover the upper part of the foor ribs).
Thanks for any and all suggestions.
Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: An pipe fittings |
>Also, this thing is really tough to get at; a regular wrench doesn't
>have enough throw (even flipping it over between "pulls") and I don't
want
>to bugger it up with jawed pliers. There are some marks on the original
>one from doing that the first time. Any ideas? Thanks.
>
>Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
>ebundy(at)mci2000.com
>http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
Ed:
You need to find a 30 or 60 degree offset open end wrenches.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Donald Farrand <dotndon(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I have an rv4 I have been flying for 5 years and my rv6 is about ready
for the faa inspection. Someone told me I might be able to advertise
the "4" for sale at this address. Can someone tell me the possibilities
and the process to do so if possible?
Thank you.
Don Farrand RV4 N 144DF
dotndon(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
| Subject: | book "speed with economy" |
"speed with economy" by kent paser, sub-title "experimental aircraft
performance improvement," claims pretty impressive (~20kts) speed increases
through drag reduction.
i am looking for reviews and comments. rv-ation book store seems to sell
quite a few, so i am wondering if this is useful stuff, within the realm of
possibility for a first-time builder. i have to do something to make up for
the nosewheel and external step drag penalty to keep up with the
taildraggers ;-)
any feedback appreciated. if you want to reply to the list that's fine, or
send to me off-list and i will compile a synopsis of all comments. thanks...
louis cappucci
6a-qb
mamaroneck, ny
louis.cappucci(at)gs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Priming |
I think we all share this concern, but if the pistons are not providing
enough air flow to move the fuel uphill then why does the engine start?
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)mci2000.com
http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>> I don't see any way that the fuel can migrate down out of the carb with
>four
>> huge pistons sucking away and the throttle closed, but I could be wrong.
>> Anyway, it works for me, and it's the way I've always started most
>> airplanes.
>
>The key here is that the throttle is closed - those four big pistons are
>pulling mostly nothing precisely because the throttle is closed. It takes
>a lot of air flow to move liquids up hill. Be very careful evaluating
>things that seem to work most of the time. (Low probability) x (serious
>consequences) = bad.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
>
>"speed with economy" by kent paser, sub-title "experimental aircraft
>performance improvement," claims pretty impressive (~20kts) speed increases
>through drag reduction.
>
>any feedback appreciated. if you want to reply to the list that's fine, or
>send to me off-list and i will compile a synopsis of all comments.
thanks...
Louis,
This is a really good book. Fortunately, all of the major drag reduction
methods described are already incorporated in the RV series. I think with
what's left to try you might get another knot or so .
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Too many Toys, was LRI |
It is very early to be speculating on the Maryland RV6 fatal crash, but the
local tv is saying there is suspicion of no fuel and the Washington paper is
reporting the NTSB as saying it looked like a stall spin. This was apparently
an experinced airshow pilot, but when it gets suddenly quiet there is that
instinct to make it go further by pulling back on the stick. I have a friend
who is a quad from trying to stretch the glide of his swift when he ran it out
of fuel. Now you can argue they should have been more careful with the
airspeed, but it is hard to put your head in the cockpit when you are
searching for a spot to save the airplane and your fanny. It woould sure be
nice to have that LRE sticking up there in your line of sight while you are
frantically trying to determine where to go.
Bernie Kerr, 6A front end of fuselage stuff, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
Gil,
On Sunday night you wrote:
Interestingly enough, AC43.13A gives a different set of figures
that
are somewhat higher in value, and with less tolerance. And yes they are
POUND INCH.
This is one case where a LUBRICATED (not dry) fit is needed to
obtain
these torque values. The FAA recommends hydraulic fluid, but I would
use a
small amount of Fuelube on the threads.
On Monday morning you wrote:
... as I said before, AC43.13A is the bible. The basic bolt
torque
charts in this bible for AN nut/bolt hardware is quoted as DRY.
I'm confused. Aren't these two messages saying different things? As I
recall, I used the 43.13 values with Fuelube on my fuel and vent line
fittings. Please clarify.
Thanks.
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
I deeply regret any crash, especially when it MIGHT have been prevented (if
as speculated it was a stall/spin) with the use of the LRI - that's exactly
why I put it in my RV-6A..excess toys? I think not!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Finding Location below Platenut |
Lothar,
Others may know more than I, but I think there is no alternative to drilling
the floor and the ribs in assembly. Maybe you can do this when the framing
is all clecoed together, then take it apart and install the platenuts.
There is a lot of other stuff that gets drilled in this floor pan, you may
find that it is premature to drill those floor mounted screws at this stage.
Once or twice I have been in a jam and thought about grinding a point on a
screw, running the pointy thing up the platenut backwards and pressing the
undrilled piece against the point to mark the place to drill. That might
work, I haven't actually done it yet. The one or two times I needed this, I
instead polished a 16 penny finishing nail and pushed it through the
platenut to mark the place to drill. There is no way this would work with
the floor ribs, though, because there is no way to reach under the floor to
manipulate things.
Steve Soule
Listers, is there a TRICK or method to find the location
below a platenut??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plexi-Glas OPPS! |
Corrected copy: Why not turn a rivet out of soft aluminum with a head that
will fill the hole on a lathe?
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plexi-Glas OPPS!
>
>Why not turn a rivet out of soft aluminum with a head that will fill to
hole
>on a lathe?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Fellas:
Let's look at it this way: Bill called upon the total sum of his knowledge in
an attempt to stop or correct whatever was happening or had happened to his
machine at that critical point in time. Sadly, he apparently failed. We should
try to learn that small thing Bill missed, so that another of us may continue
with his or her flying career, should that same small thing occur again.
My one purchase at OSH last year was an IAC poster relating these points- I
can't locate the thing (I'm moving). If someone else has it, I'd like to see
it keyed in. It compares with "High Flight".
Be assured, Bill is watching to see how we handle this...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clayton Smith <clayfly(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
Hello fellow builders,
I need to crimp some wires to a few Molex Pins (ya know, the pins that fit
into the clear plastic connectors used with the Whelen lighting
system). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
($45 in Pacific Coast Avionics catalog), or can I just use an everyday
crimping tool?
Much thanks in advance.
Clay Smith, RV-4 (N9X reserved), putting tail feathers on fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing/ Empenage Jig |
Todd Lattimer wrote:
> Are they the same as the RV4/6 jigs?
Approximately... the distance between the posts is greater for the -8, I
think.
> and is there anywhere on the net that outlines how to build them?
construction, but most things will overlap a lot with the -8.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Paris France RVers |
In you dont live in the Paris France Area Please Trash this message
If you live in the paris france area please contact me off the list. My
family and I are planning a trip and are in need of lodging information.
chet razer
RV6A Miss Chiquita 130 hrs since January
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding Location below Platenut |
Lothar Klingmuller wrote:
>
> Listers, is there a TRICK or method to find the location below a platenut??
> I would like to rivet the platenuts into the floor ribs flanges
> prior to riveting the ribs to the bulkheads F-604 and F605. But if I do
> this, how do I find the exact locations to drill holes in F-639/-640 (the
> plates which cover the upper part of the foor ribs).
> Thanks for any and all suggestions.
>
>
> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage||
>
Lother - try using a hole finder. You can make one using two strips of aluminum
riveted together at one end. Drill the appropriate sized hole through both pieces
at the other end and glue a short rivet into one of the holes with the shank
protruding outward. To use the tool insert the strips over /under the floor sheet
with the protruding rivet inserted into the nut plate. The hole in the upper strip
of the tool will be right over where you need to drill.
Hope this helps
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Plexi-Glas OPPS! |
Cy Galley wrote:
> will fill the hole on a lathe?
>
Cy - I think that I will just have to live with the lower rivet. Making a rivet
is not a problem but my concern is the strength to pull it . If it is too tough
to
pull there may be a chance of cracking the 'glass and I would rather have a low
rivet.
Thanks again for your help. Fresh ideas are always welcome.
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
Robert Acker wrote:
>
>
> >
> >"speed with economy" by kent paser, sub-title "experimental aircraft
> >performance improvement," claims pretty impressive (~20kts) speed increases
>
> This is a really good book. Fortunately, all of the major drag reduction
> methods described are already incorporated in the RV series. I think with
> what's left to try you might get another knot or so .
Hmmm... New 2 piece wheel pants (from Van's) are supposed to be good for
3-5 kts. Fuel drains stick out of the bottom of the wing, etc., some
rv's go 15 to 20 kts faster than avg. without adding 150 additional HP.
Most of the major stuff is done, but in reading old magazine articles by
Paser, his impressive total gain was by taking care of a lot of minor
things.
Paser's book is what I asked Santa to bring me for Christmas this year.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding Location below Platenut |
>
> Listers, is there a TRICK or method to find the location
> below a platenut??
Remember the old magnetic 'stud finders' before the days of electronics?
There is a company selling a 2 piece version of this at air shows. You
insert a tiny magnet (or ferrous bead, I forget which side the magnet is
actually on) in the blind hole, lay your top skin in place, & move the
miniature 'finder' around until the pointer stands up straight. The bad
news is, I have no idea who they are.
Anyone else remember seeing this product?
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Hearing the sad news about Bill Knight reminded me of the recent
accident that happened to local RV flyer not too long ago, Richard Bibb.
Richard's RV-4 had engine failure on final in North Carolina and he had
to put his bird into the top of a tree (hope I would have the same
presence of mind in a similar situation), but walked away intact. It
always makes me wonder what factors makes the critical difference in a
pilot's decision at those crucial moments - experience, frame of mind,
practice, instruments, flight situation, awarness?? I guess the answer
is we seldom know for certain.
I do know that when this happens to a respected pilot who had more
flight experience than I will ever accumulate, it gives me pause for
reflection on the fascination and joy of flying balanced against the
real dangers inherent in flight. But, then I open the morning paper and
find the report of an unfortunate individual who slipped in a bath tub
and is fatally injured and re-afirm that I am willing to accept these
risks because the joy of flight gives meaning to my life, however long
it may be.
God Speed, Bill
Ed
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
Hello, I have read several threads about using the 5 Point Seatbelt system
sold through Summit Racing and others. I would appreciate any information
regarding any issues with the installation of the belts and what model was
ordered.
Note. I am referencing the following URL which had more part numbers and
apparently lower prices for the RCI Belts sold through Summit Racing.
http://www.madcap-racing.com/rci.html
I am building an RV-4.
Regards,
Steven B. Janicki
Sr. Director
Oracle Data Center
500 Oracle Pkwy
Redwood Shores, CA
94065
650-506-2740
name="Steve B Janicki.vcf"
filename="Steve B Janicki.vcf"
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Janicki;Steve;B
FN:Steve B Janicki
ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center
TITLE:Sr. Director
TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740
TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165
ADR;WORK:;4op4;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA
Pkwy=3D0D=3D0ARedwood Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA
URL:
URL:http://www.oracle.com
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com
REV:19981123T200746Z
END:VCARD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Too many Toys, was LRI |
I'd be interested in a volume discount price for the AOA sport. I like
the idea of an aural warning. I don't think we need the "professional" since
our gear is welded down. :^)
Regards,
Bob
From: Charles Rowbotham [mailto:crowbotham(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Too many Toys, was LRI
I have also been following the AOA thread and agree with the following
points: AOA is a safety improvement, it should be mountable on the
glare-shield to keep the pilot's eyes outside and there needs to be a
voice warning system.
For above reasons my son and I are going with Proprietary Software
System's AOA Professional. Sport Aviation had an article on this system
earlier this year (May-98 I think). Proprietary Software Systems has a
web site at http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/LFrantz that is
worth checking out.
If there is interest, I will contact PSP regarding a volume/list
discount.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (N712CR reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New FAA N-number lookup |
I just want to thank you, Don, for your lookup utility. I used to some
months ago to develop a list of 10 numbers. I then called the FAA. All but
one was either on revolked status or on a two year hold. My second choce
was on two year hold which ended on October 22. I was told they wait 30
days after this date to "officially" release these numbers. I waited until
Nov 1 to send my request in and asked them to wait the 30 days if they had
to. I got confirmation on my second choice on Nov 18. I now have Niner
Papa Tango reserved.
Thanks Don.
Ross Mickey RV6A....N-9PT reserved
>To: lookup(at)analogia.com
>Subj:
>
>lookup ??6rv
>lookup ???6a
>
>lookup 777??
>Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Too many Toys, was LRI |
Bob, I am interested in the AOA sport for the same reason you indicated
- the Aural alarm. I doubt that I would be scanning the inside of a
cockpit during the landing phase- particularly at night, so a visual AOA
would probably not do me much good - even right in front of me.
However, one with an aural alarm would hopefully have a better chance of
getting my attention in time to recognize the warning and take
corrective action. Let us know what kind of discount they will offer.
I understand the Sport AOA may not be available as of yet.
Ed
Anderson_ed(at)bah.com
RV-6A N494BW
DiMeo, Robert wrote:
>
>
> I'd be interested in a volume discount price for the AOA sport. I like
> the idea of an aural warning.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
>Robert Acker wrote:
>> This is a really good book. Fortunately, all of the major drag reduction
>> methods described are already incorporated in the RV series. I think
with
>> what's left to try you might get another knot or so .
>
>Hmmm... New 2 piece wheel pants (from Van's) are supposed to be good for
>3-5 kts. Fuel drains stick out of the bottom of the wing, etc., some
>rv's go 15 to 20 kts faster than avg. without adding 150 additional HP.
Charlie,
The at the end of my message indicated I was kidding about only another
knot being achievable. At the end of Ken's book, he lists what each change
brought about. All of the MAJOR speed gains are mostly from items already
incorporated on the RV.
Basically, I bought the book to see what major drag reduction techniques I
might try to incorporate during the building process (things that would be
difficult to incorporate later, not things that could be done after the
plane is flying and could be fiddled with later, as in fuel vent fairings
and wheelpants).
To be honest, the flight testing methods the author used to verify each
modification is worth the price of the book alone. Very thorough, and
material I will use in my flight testing.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Too many Toys, was LRI |
>
> I'd be interested in a volume discount price for the AOA sport. I like
>the idea of an aural warning. I don't think we need the "professional"
since
>our gear is welded down. :^)
>
> Regards,
> Bob
Count me in as interested too!
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
Clayton Smith wrote:
>
> I need to crimp some wires to a few Molex Pins (ya know, the pins that fit
> into the clear plastic connectors used with the Whelen lighting
> system). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
Any electronics tech should have one to borrow. I enticed a friend of a
friend of a friend into my workshop with the promise of a beer if he
brought his crimper. You do need the right tool as it rolls the pin
tangs over for a secure lock.
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
<< ello, I have read several threads about using the 5 Point Seatbelt system
sold through Summit Racing and others. I would appreciate any information
regarding any issues with the installation of the belts and what model was
ordered.
>>
They are HEAVY!!! Hooker Harness makes a v good set, much lighter.
If you want two sets of the three inch RCI units (to fit your -4). let me
know. Cheep, cheep, cheep...as in you pay the shipping...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve/Angle of Attack |
Listers,
This message is not intended to change anyone's mind about anything but
hopefully to inform and make you look a little deeper to be sure you KNOW
what you want.
The basic LRI unit is a stand alone system, completely independent of ALL
other systems. The LRI does not require electrical power. It functions as
a backup to the ASI should the pitot get plugged for whatever reason. Some
other units use the pitot as one of their six (6) or so points of input for
pressure for an accurate reading. If the pitot should get plugged does the
instrument still work accurately? Some units also use a small hole drilled
into the TOP of the wing as another point for data input. That was hole in
the TOP of the wing. The side that gets rained on and dusted and..., well
you see my point.
The LRI works on the ground since it is using dynamic pressure as part of
it's input, so the LRI will indicate sufficient lift for rotation and
take-off. It is my understanding that the LRI is the ONLY unit with this
capability.
The LRI does NOT have an audible warning device or talk to you or flash at
you. If you are incapable of a quick glance at you panel or on your
glairshield at times then this unit is not for you. I have some other
questions for some of you. If your stall warning goes off do you glance at
the ASI as you push the nose down or are you scanning intently for traffic?
What if your stall warning sound is not working and you don't know it? Does
that mean your going to crash because you never look at the ASI? If some
engine parameter beeps or whistles at you do you look to see what the
instrument is telling you. Am I to understand that when an instrument
"speaks up" then it's okay to bring your eyes into the cockpit, but not
before? I really would like to know. I KNOW the theory, but what's the
reality? I may be wrong in this but I think fighter pilots have some sort
of instrument that they actually look at when they are flying and I think
landing too! Will someone with some experience in this please set me
straight.
I don't understand how so many people can bash the "old" technology of the
Lycoming engine, but when an "improvement" to the ASI comes along, it's
"Black Magic!" AL (Still taking names!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
Clay...Yes they are...
Digi-key sells an econo version that will do any molex crimp just
fine...about $30 I think...
You will ruin too many connectors, and your eyesight if you try to use
needlnose or something else. If you were to do just a couple of crimps,
then I would say don't buy it, but mine was worth if for doing about a dozen
or so. The crimps are really fragile, and the crimpers actually bend the
"clamps" down into the wire threads, as opposed to just squashing the top of
them. If you don't buy one, then touch them with a tiny bit of solder after
you crimp them just to be sure.
You can get a catalog from their website, www.digi-key.com
Hope this helps...
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
>
>Hello fellow builders,
>
>I need to crimp some wires to a few Molex Pins (ya know, the pins that fit
>into the clear plastic connectors used with the Whelen lighting
>system). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
>($45 in Pacific Coast Avionics catalog), or can I just use an everyday
>crimping tool?
>
>Much thanks in advance.
>
>Clay Smith, RV-4 (N9X reserved), putting tail feathers on fuse
>
>
>
>
>
>rv-list(at)matronics.com
Paul Besing
Pinacor, Inc.
(800) 528-1415 ext.67697
.....Committed to being your primary distributor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: AOA Sport, was Too many Toys |
News-Software: UReply 3.1
In a previous message, it was written:
>
>Bob, I am interested in the AOA sport for the same reason you indicated
>- the Aural alarm. I doubt that I would be scanning the inside of a
The list price of the full blown AOA Pro is $1,450!
Can the Sport model be _that_ much less?
Seems like a simple stall warning annunciator could be done for _much_ less
if an AOA-in-units indicator is not desired.
Will have to check archives - this _has_ to have been covered.
Mike Thompson
Austin TX
-6 Starting wings!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | LOUD "AIRHORN" WHILE TAXIING? |
I was doing some low speed taxi/brake checking this morning. (RV-6A,
wheelpants off) Just touching the brakes produced the a very loud squeel,
not like brakes, but what a spectator said sounded like an airhorn. Happened
any time the brake was applied, at any speed up to about 20 knots. (My upper
limit)
When I "Twang" the wheelpant brackets, the sound seems to be similar. Could
they be resonating??? This is so loud it attracted a bunch of spectators.
Any ideas?
Bruce Patton
N596S
painted, uhpolstered, and almost ready
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
>I need to crimp some wires to a few Molex Pins (ya know, the pins that fit
>into the clear plastic connectors used with the Whelen lighting
>system). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
>($45 in Pacific Coast Avionics catalog), or can I just use an everyday
>crimping tool?
Don't know what an "everyday" crimping tool is . . . Molex formed
sheetmetal pins are technology cousins to the Amp Mate-n-Lock series.
I believe Whelen uses the AMP Mate-n-Lock connectors.
Both connectors require a specially formed die that rolls the wire
and insulation grip tabs over for proper grip. Production versions
of the proper tool and REALLY big bucks . . . I've got a ratchet
handled tool that's now over $200. We stock the low cost tools for
$24 each.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o==========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
=================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Hormann <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
Dear Robert:
Remember that stall is a result of angle of attack to the relative wind,
not speed. The wing will stall at the same angle of attack irregardless
of the weight. Stall speed increases with weight in relation to the
increased lift, i. e. angle of attack, speed, or some combination of the
two, needed to "lift" the increased weight. Theoretically therefore, the
LRI will give you accurate impending stall info regardless of weight.
For the same reason, altitude, density pressure or otherwise should also
not be a factor since we're measuring the difference in pressure between
the two probes and not against an unrelated standard. Since I've not
seen one of these in action, I can't say about the ground effect issue,
however if the probe is out in front of the wing, I wouldn't think that
it would be a factor.
>
> I'm even more confused concerning the performance characteristics of
> this system. The instrument displays a raw measurement of a
> particular differential pressure condition obtained from a probe placed
> across a region of "induced" flow boundary at a particular chord
> position of the wing. It is hard to envision how this measurement will
> produce a constant "stalling" or "Zero Lift Reserve" value at different
> gross weights and flap configurations as claimed (although, like IAS,
> the value should be fairly constant with density altitude changes).
>
> Regards,
>
> Hawkeye
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Priming |
The vaporized, gaseous portion of the fuel is easily moved uphill; it is
the unvaporized, liquid fuel that is of concern. Back in the days of -
gasp - carburetors on cars, it was not that uncommon to see burn marks on
the paint of the top cover of the air filter housing. I
don't know how this compares to aircraft, with their updraft carbs.
Alex P.
> I think we all share this concern, but if the pistons are not providing
> enough air flow to move the fuel uphill then why does the engine start?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Kircher" <devonair(at)sky1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
From: Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 3:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary?
>
>
>
>Clayton Smith wrote:
>>
>> I need to crimp some wires to a few Molex Pins (ya know, the pins that
fit
>> into the clear plastic connectors used with the Whelen lighting
>> system). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
>
>Any electronics tech should have one to borrow. I enticed a friend of a
>friend of a friend into my workshop with the promise of a beer if he
>brought his crimper. You do need the right tool as it rolls the pin
>tangs over for a secure lock.
>
>Terry Jantzi
>Kitchener ON
>RV-6 C-GZRV
>
><http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
I saw on the Matronics web site pictures of an RV-4 with retractable gear
and claims of 20 more mph with only a loss of 20 pounds of load. How the
heck was this done? Is this a real option for average RV builders? This
speed reduction option would blow the doors off anything to get just a knot
or two.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
Lessons learned this weekend for newcomers who will soon be riveting skins
on their horizontal stabilizer:
1) I picked up George Ornoff's tip too late on using the debur tool to
allow better seating of the 470 rivet into the dimple, but once I did that,
my rivets started looking very good.
2) When you can, use the squeezer, and when you must use a rivet gun, use
two people whenever possible. My wife found that riveting was easier than
bucking, although both of us made mistakes that will put my RV-6A into the
"30-foot plane" group. We got good at it quickly, though, so I'm sure my
wings will be perfect (yeah, right).
3) I struggled with the last rivets at the very front of the tip ribs, but
the squeezer will work there, although I had to do those with the HS out of
the jig in order to angle the squeezer right.
4) I wish I paid more attention in shop class (my mantra throughout this
project).
While not perfect, I sure am proud of my new, shiny horizontal stabilizer
hanging up in my basement.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A vertical stabilizer
Marietta, Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: LOUD "AIRHORN" WHILE TAXIING? |
>
>I was doing some low speed taxi/brake checking this morning. (RV-6A,
>wheelpants off) Just touching the brakes produced the a very loud squeel,
>not like brakes, but what a spectator said sounded like an airhorn. Happened
>any time the brake was applied, at any speed up to about 20 knots. (My upper
>limit)
>
>When I "Twang" the wheelpant brackets, the sound seems to be similar. Could
>they be resonating??? This is so loud it attracted a bunch of spectators.
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Bruce Patton
>N596S
>painted, uhpolstered, and almost ready
>
It's easy enough to see if the wheelpants plate is resonating. Just
bolt a heavy mass onto the plates and go for a taxi. If the plates
were the culprit the sound will either be gone or will have changed
frequency.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Wing Skin Intersection |
Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Where the wing skins meet there is an overlap. The outboard is prepunched
but the inboard one is not. In short you can't see the rib much less the
centerline. I do not want to drill without knowing for sure the rib
islined up.<
Take the inboard skin off or at leas take enough clekos out to pull it out
of the way.
Drill the outboard skin to the rib.
Take enough clekos out to slide the inboard skin under the outboard and
drill the inboard skin.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
Take it to your local radio shop. They should be able to crimp your pins.
From: Clayton Smith <clayfly(at)iquest.net>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary?
>
>Hello fellow builders,
>
>I need to crimp some wires to a few Molex Pins (ya know, the pins that fit
>into the clear plastic connectors used with the Whelen lighting
>system). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
>($45 in Pacific Coast Avionics catalog), or can I just use an everyday
>crimping tool?
>
>Much thanks in advance.
>
>Clay Smith, RV-4 (N9X reserved), putting tail feathers on fuse
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding Location below Platenut |
Use steel strips and they will last longer. You can buy ready made hole
finders with drill bushing welded to the strap for longer life.
From: Douglas G. Murray <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding Location below Platenut
>
>
>
>Lothar Klingmuller wrote:
>
>>
>> Listers, is there a TRICK or method to find the location below a
platenut??
>> I would like to rivet the platenuts into the floor ribs flanges
>> prior to riveting the ribs to the bulkheads F-604 and F605. But if I do
>> this, how do I find the exact locations to drill holes in F-639/-640 (the
>> plates which cover the upper part of the foor ribs).
>> Thanks for any and all suggestions.
>>
>>
>> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage||
>>
>
>Lother - try using a hole finder. You can make one using two strips of
aluminum
>riveted together at one end. Drill the appropriate sized hole through both
pieces
>at the other end and glue a short rivet into one of the holes with the
shank
>protruding outward. To use the tool insert the strips over /under the floor
sheet
>with the protruding rivet inserted into the nut plate. The hole in the
upper strip
>of the tool will be right over where you need to drill.
>
>Hope this helps
>
>DGM RV-6
>Southern Alberta
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
I have read and reread the Paser book and it is one of my favorite RV
building books. I will disagree with the staement that most of Paser's
drag reduction modifications have already been incorporated in the RV!
His biggest drag reduction came in improving the engine cooling system
by modifing the cowl and building a cooling plenum. This is one area
that Van leaves totally up to the builder. There are a lot of knots in
an inefficient cooling system.
Great book, I wish more people would document their improvements as well
as he did. Well worth the price.
Bob Busick
RV6 Fremont CA
> > This is a really good book. Fortunately, all of the major drag reduction
> > methods described are already incorporated in the RV series. I think with
> > what's left to try you might get another knot or so .
>
>
> Most of the major stuff is done, but in reading old magazine articles by
> Paser, his impressive total gain was by taking care of a lot of minor
> things.
>
> Paser's book is what I asked Santa to bring me for Christmas this year.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
Doug,
Thanks for that explanation. Let me add that in ground effect there is a
"cushion" or "pillow" of air that is slightly elevated in pressure that the
LRI is measuring and telling you what you have under there and how it
affects your lift. That is why you can fly (float) along at slower speeds
in ground effect. The LRI measures the differential pressures in this and
all situations at the probe under the wing and translates that to how much
lift you have available to you and tells you through the gauge. But you
have to look at it! Sorry! AL
>
>Dear Robert:
>
>Remember that stall is a result of angle of attack to the relative wind,
>not speed. The wing will stall at the same angle of attack irregardless
>of the weight. Stall speed increases with weight in relation to the
>increased lift, i. e. angle of attack, speed, or some combination of the
>two, needed to "lift" the increased weight. Theoretically therefore, the
>LRI will give you accurate impending stall info regardless of weight.
>For the same reason, altitude, density pressure or otherwise should also
>not be a factor since we're measuring the difference in pressure between
>the two probes and not against an unrelated standard. Since I've not
>seen one of these in action, I can't say about the ground effect issue,
>however if the probe is out in front of the wing, I wouldn't think that
>it would be a factor.
>>
>> I'm even more confused concerning the performance characteristics of
>> this system. The instrument displays a raw measurement of a
>> particular differential pressure condition obtained from a probe placed
>> across a region of "induced" flow boundary at a particular chord
>> position of the wing. It is hard to envision how this measurement will
>> produce a constant "stalling" or "Zero Lift Reserve" value at different
>> gross weights and flap configurations as claimed (although, like IAS,
>> the value should be fairly constant with density altitude changes).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Hawkeye
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Wing Skin Splice Bevel? |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Vince,
Here's another approach. Make a notch in the underlying skin . The width
would be the same as the amount of overlap. The length would be
(chord-wise) about 3/8 to 1/2 inches longer than the amount that the
skin overlaps the spar (front or rear). If you do this real carefully and
file the notch to the exact size no one tell that there is a notch there.
I used this method on my 4 and it turned out beautifully.
Regards,
Bill Davis N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
>
>His biggest drag reduction came in improving the engine cooling system
>by modifing the cowl and building a cooling plenum. This is one area
>that Van leaves totally up to the builder. There are a lot of knots in
>an inefficient cooling system.
Bob,
Different aircraft, differently designed stock cooling system (apparently
very inefficient).
I know of one builder who spent many extra hours building a carefully
designed (and beautifully crafted) plenum for his RV-6, in the quest for
more speed. His aircraft is no faster than "stock" RV's.
To me this indicated that time put into designing and fabricating a custom
plenum would be better spent elsewhere on the project, and that Van's
cooling system must not be that inefficient after all. My RV-6 kit came
with drawings for the complete cooling system (and came with parts for it),
leaving me only to build it as outlined.
Regards,
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Stall Warning (inexpensive) |
Regarding all the talk about stall warning:
D.W. Richardson (a Brit) used to sell a stall warning vane for $51US
(post paid). I bought one (but I'm not flying yet). I read on the list
that Mr Richardson died, so it may not be possible to purchase a unit
anymore. It would, however, be easy to fabricate one.
Richardson's unit is similar to the Piper Cherokee stall warning. A 1/2"
long tab of metal extends out of a slot cut in the leading edge of the
wing. The slot is cut 21 1/4" forward of the seam between the leading
edge skin and the top skin (on the RV-6 wing) near the wing tip. Mr
Richardson's directions say it gives him 8kts warning of a stall.
The stall warning unit is based on a strip of metal 1/2" wide and 2 1/2"
long, hinged (to a mounting bracket) at the back, with the front of the
vane sticking out of the slot cut in the wing. The vane is lifted by the
local upward air flow generated as the wing approaches a stall. The
lifted vane presses against a contact on a microswitch, which is wired
to a horn/buzzer of your choice, mounted in the cockpit.
While EVERYTHING seems to take thrice as long as it should, I think
an RV builder would be able to fabricate one of these stall warners in a
day. The critical thing is knowing where to cut the little slot in the
wing, and Mr Richardson provided us with that data.
Mr Richardson did a nice job brazing all the pieces together and
supplying a nice shiny cover plate for the slot. Whenever I get a
scanner (supposed to arrive on the truck this week, Best Buy says) I'll
scan in a photo of Richardson's unit for listers to see.
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Caldwell" <thomasc(at)owc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
You might try Radio Shack,they have a reasonably priced crimper or Allied
Electronics also sells one.
Regards
Tom
>
>). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
>($45 in Pacific Coast Avionics catalog), or can I just use an everyday
>crimping tool?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.James" <vtx(at)ntplx.net> |
| Subject: | Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$? |
Hi all!
My golly, you are a lively bunch. I've been on the Europa list for past
year or so, and get no more than 2 memos a week. The RV-Listers fire
off 40~50 A DAY! wow! At any rate, that is a big reason why I just
called in an RV6 QB order to Vans', instead of Ivan Shaw @ Europa. A
HUGE info base of active builders in all parts of the USA. That, and
the fact that composites are an utter nightmare (IMHO).
At any rate, I'm a "sheet-metal" neophyte. Have purchased (and viewed)
all the Ordorff videos, and it appears that if I throw enough money at
this project it may actually be do-able by my retirement in 5 years.
Question is this: I've contacted Alexander Sportair Workshop folks, and
found an opening in the Feb 98 "RV Assembly Workshop" in Griffin GA.
Tuition, flight, stay, etc will run about $600~$800.
Has anyone out there taken this 2 1/2 day course? If so, will it be
worth the time and effort in the overall? Or would the $800 be better
off spent on a good compressor/rivet gun & allot of practice on aluminum
trash cans? (heheheee).
Thanks for any advice!
Russ James
Connecticut, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Rimbold <rimbold(at)ntr.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SE Fla RV FLYIN |
Arzflyer(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Where is Treasure Coast Airpark?
It's a few miles SouthWest of Fort Pierce (KFPR), and a few
miles East of the Northern-most tip of Lake Okeechobee.
'Rob
RV6A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Hughes" <hawk(at)digisys.net> |
Dear Doug,
>
>Dear Robert:
>
>Remember that stall is a result of angle of attack to the relative
wind,
>not speed. The wing will stall at the same angle of attack
irregardless
>of the weight. Stall speed increases with weight in relation to the
>increased lift, i. e. angle of attack, speed, or some combination of
the
>two, needed to "lift" the increased weight. Theoretically therefore,
the
>LRI will give you accurate impending stall info regardless of weight.
Whatever the LRI does measure, it most definitely is NOT AOA, so I'm
not sure how the assumptions in your statement related to AOA are to be
extrapolated to the LRI system.
As an aside, when describing the behavior of a true AOA system, the
effects of trailing edge flap deployment will in general shift the peak
of the CL curve to the left, and the actual AOA value at the stall
break will be less with flaps deployed than for a clean wing. (Leading
edge devices will generally shift the curve to the right and the
peak/stall will occur at a higher AOA value when deployed) (Aero For
Naval Aviators pp40-42). It would be a rare coincidence if the
stalling AOA would be the same at all flap settings for a given wing.
Regards, (I'd still like to see some good test data...)
Hawkeye
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William R. Geipel" <czech6(at)win.bright.net> |
Excellent response. I couldn't have said it better myself. Ground effect is not
a
problem.
Bill (owner, LRI Company)
Doug Hormann wrote:
>
> Dear Robert:
>
> Remember that stall is a result of angle of attack to the relative wind,
> not speed. The wing will stall at the same angle of attack irregardless
> of the weight. Stall speed increases with weight in relation to the
> increased lift, i. e. angle of attack, speed, or some combination of the
> two, needed to "lift" the increased weight. Theoretically therefore, the
> LRI will give you accurate impending stall info regardless of weight.
> For the same reason, altitude, density pressure or otherwise should also
> not be a factor since we're measuring the difference in pressure between
> the two probes and not against an unrelated standard. Since I've not
> seen one of these in action, I can't say about the ground effect issue,
> however if the probe is out in front of the wing, I wouldn't think that
> it would be a factor.
> >
> > I'm even more confused concerning the performance characteristics of
> > this system. The instrument displays a raw measurement of a
> > particular differential pressure condition obtained from a probe placed
> > across a region of "induced" flow boundary at a particular chord
> > position of the wing. It is hard to envision how this measurement will
> > produce a constant "stalling" or "Zero Lift Reserve" value at different
> > gross weights and flap configurations as claimed (although, like IAS,
> > the value should be fairly constant with density altitude changes).
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Hawkeye
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
FWIW, this is a copy of an email that I received today. Thought some of you
might be interested.
From: Lynda Frantz <LFrantz(at)compuserve.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 12:35 PM
Subject: Information
The retail cost of the AOA Professional is $1,450. As a comparison the A/C
Spruce simple stall warner switch and buzzer sells for $1,200. Our AOA
includes a four color digital display, voice warning system, landing gear
warner and RS-232 port. If the price puts you off, stay tuned for the AOA
Sport which will be less expensive because of a less expensive LED ladder
display, and elimination of a few features on the AOA Professional. AOA
Sport pricing will not be available until next spring but is targeted to
$800.
As you may have seen at www.angle-of-attack.com, the red chevrons indicate
AOA's near the critical AOA (verbal warning "angle angle push"), the
donut is only on if the flaps are in the landing configuration, the donut
is used for the target AOA for the optimum approach AOA, the "X" on the
green bar is the best glide AOA or the maximum endurance AOA. The digits
at the bottom are units of AOA which are approximately in tenths of a
degree. When the display reads 000 you are at zero degrees from zero lift
which is where your aircraft will accelerate the fastest for any given
power setting. AOA is it aerodynamically and is used to fly Vx, Vy,
L/Dmax, maximum endurance, etc!! You know exactly where you are relative
to a stall during short field appproaches regardless of weight, density
altitute, bank angle or turbulance. As you know IAS stalling speeds vary
depending upon wing loading, bank angle, fuel load, CG, etc while all
approaches should be shot at the same AOA regardless. AOA's fidelity
increases at high AOA's and low airspeeds while the IAS's fidelity actually
decreases.
The AOA Professional installation requires pressure port in the top and
bottom of the wing towards the wing tip and also uses dynamic pressures
from your pitot static system. Our patent pending AOA takes advantage of
the aerodynamic fact that; dividing the wing pressures by the dynamic
pressure results in a coefficient of pressure known to vary uniquely with
AOA. There are no protrusions or moving parts to increase reliability. The
next cheapest full range true digital AOA is $22,000 and it does not
include a voice or digital colored display.
Future projects include the AOA Sport due for release in March 99 and will
feature a simpler but smaller LED ladder display, no gear warner or RS-232
port but retains the voice warning system.
Installation is a 1 day project and perhaps a bit less for AL winged
aircraft.
Snail mail info is on its way tomorrow if you could forward your address.
Accuracy is excellent usually within 1/10 degree and fidelity is of course
even better. Don't know how many are flying but over 170 units delivered
since May 1998. Have reviewed data for flying C-182, C-206, Lancair
320/360, Lancair IV-P, and Velocity. I believe there is a RV flying but
don't know which one. There is no moving parts so expect excellent MTBF.
Jim@angle-of-attack.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
> After reading the contents of the Lift Reserve Indicator related sites at:
> http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4559822
> http://www.liftreserve.com/
> I'm even more confused concerning the performance characteristics of
> this system.
I'm made somewhat skeptical of the patent's claims when I read some
of the assertions in the patent, including:
"Neither airspeed nor angle of attack indication reliably identifies the
critical conditions of wing lift." (page 5, line 56, left column).
According to the FAA's AC 61-21A, page 264,
"One of the most important things a pilot should understand about
angle of attack is that for any given airplane the stalling or critical
angle of attack remains constant regardless of weight, dynamic
pressure, bank angle, or pitch attitude..." I'm no aerodynamics expert,
but it appears to me that the patent assertions conflict with what the
FAA says.
The LRI appears to measure "dynamic" air pressure against the
bottom of the wing. Lift is generated by the pressure difference
between the bottom and the top of the wing. Can any of the
aerodynamics experts on the list tell us if a measurement of the
dynamic air pressure under the wing, by itself, is an accurate measure
of "closeness to stall"?
The LRI certainly is an interesting idea. I'm not sure, however, that it
really measures "the surplus kinetic energy of an aircraft mass" as the
patent claims. Anybody have any AOA vs LRI empirical data?
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Re: RV 6 crash] |
Listers,
Per Eric's request, I forward this to you.
Charlie Kuss
RV8 wings
Boca Raton, Fl.
Subject: Re: RV 6 crash
From: e-rex(at)juno.com (Eric J. Henson)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:55:49 EST
Hey Charlie, please post this to the list for me. It's the post I never
wanted to write.
Hi all, I've been off the list for about eight long months now, all a
part of moving from LA to S. Florida. I guess the primer wars got the
best of me and I just let it ride, (Variprime and epoxy can peacefully
co-exist). I just spent a terrible day in my hangar listening to
armchair quarterbacks hypothesize as to how my friend spent his last
moments. All that means nothing, I'd like to take some of Matt's
bandwidth and tell you about Bill Knight.
One hot evening about sunset my wife and I were driving along the edge of
the everglades and I turned to my wife and said, hey, I hear there's an
airpark around here. About that time an RV-6 took the tops off the tree's
right in front of us and he was sizzling. I immediately pull the truck to
the side while war-whooping incoherently like any of Van's faithful would
do, and we proceeded to watch this guy properly beat up a defenseless
airpark. It was an obvious case of the plane matching the pilot.
A few weeks later I walk into the hangar where I rent a corner big enough
for my fuse jig and a work bench, and there sits this beautiful RV
painted like an airbeetle on steroids. Believe me, if Nigeria owned this
one it would be the wing commanders personal mount. Only one addition on
this beetle, on the tail was Mickey Mouse flipping you the bird.
Before long that RV magic had me and Bill being pretty good hangar chums.
Although Bill bought his RV, he gladly gave up a Marchetti SF 260 to do
so, he said he preferred the way the RV rolled. I figured giving up a
bird like that is about as hard as building an RV so I let him off the
hook. Bill rarely came into the hangar without his dog Archie, a big
friendly Basset Hound. I always called Archie "Radar" because he knew the
sound of Bill's plane. I would be quietly riveting away and all of a
sudden Archie would begin to howl for no reason. In about five minutes
Bill would taxi up to the hangar. One things for sure, ole Radar called
Bills entry into the pattern. And when that plane pulled out, there was
hell to pay from that ground-bound hound.
The local paper highlighted a Bill I never knew. He had an impressive
life, was an actor on the big screen, Wall Street Wiz, knew many big
names as personal acquaintances but never dropped a one. Ya see, Bill was
one of the last of the tell it like it is guys. Just called em as he saw
em. And in a community such as this where people go to great lengths to
tell you about their horribly interesting lives, Bill would rather tell
you about his dog. He was a fiercely patriotic American, but was not
blinded by his personal views. I think the back of his Jeep best made the
point, his license frame said "too close for missiles...... switching to
guns". Above that was a large Greatfull Dead sticker.
So I sit here with one too many Scotches in hand, thinking about pilots
I've known. The names may be different, but still they are the same guys
you knew. They inspired us, taught us, protected us, and shaped our
lives. Aviation, this mistress we all serve, on occasion extracts an
offering from her faithful. We have all known them and probably will know
more. Our loss does not detract from the magnificence of flight, it
defines it's value.
So I raise my glass in a toast to all those we have known that have been
taken too soon, and to all those that just faded away. They will fly with
us always. And if there is a heaven where angels fly on silver wings,
they had best check-six. There's one Hell of a buzz job coming their way.
Press on Bill.
Eric J. Henson (Fuselage)
E-Rex(at)Juno.com
Mason-Dixon Engineering
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William R. Geipel" <czech6(at)win.bright.net> |
When the LRI is calibrated it should be done in the landing configuration. But
you should do stalls, approaches, takeoffs with and without flaps/slats. In most
general aviation airplanes, the Critical AOA will not change that much. Or at
least you won't notice much of a change. The LRI measures pressure differential
at 2 ports. A true AOA gauge is a little wing stuck on the side of a fuselage.
It fly's when you fly. The LRI is measuring not AOA but the amount of lift
being produced by the wing. And since none of the airplane manufacturers shared
info regarding critical AOA with us, it does us no good to know what our current
AOA is. So knowing how much lift is available to us seems to be more important
and is something we can use.
MD
Robert Hughes wrote:
>
> Dear Doug,
>
> >
> >Dear Robert:
> >
> >Remember that stall is a result of angle of attack to the relative
> wind,
> >not speed. The wing will stall at the same angle of attack
> irregardless
> >of the weight. Stall speed increases with weight in relation to the
> >increased lift, i. e. angle of attack, speed, or some combination of
> the
> >two, needed to "lift" the increased weight. Theoretically therefore,
> the
> >LRI will give you accurate impending stall info regardless of weight.
>
> Whatever the LRI does measure, it most definitely is NOT AOA, so I'm
> not sure how the assumptions in your statement related to AOA are to be
> extrapolated to the LRI system.
>
> As an aside, when describing the behavior of a true AOA system, the
> effects of trailing edge flap deployment will in general shift the peak
> of the CL curve to the left, and the actual AOA value at the stall
> break will be less with flaps deployed than for a clean wing. (Leading
> edge devices will generally shift the curve to the right and the
> peak/stall will occur at a higher AOA value when deployed) (Aero For
> Naval Aviators pp40-42). It would be a rare coincidence if the
> stalling AOA would be the same at all flap settings for a given wing.
>
> Regards, (I'd still like to see some good test data...)
>
> Hawkeye
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William R. Geipel" <czech6(at)win.bright.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning (inexpensive) |
What happens in an accelerated stall?
MD
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
> Regarding all the talk about stall warning:
>
> D.W. Richardson (a Brit) used to sell a stall warning vane for $51US
> (post paid). I bought one (but I'm not flying yet). I read on the list
> that Mr Richardson died, so it may not be possible to purchase a unit
> anymore. It would, however, be easy to fabricate one.
>
> Richardson's unit is similar to the Piper Cherokee stall warning. A 1/2"
> long tab of metal extends out of a slot cut in the leading edge of the
> wing. The slot is cut 21 1/4" forward of the seam between the leading
> edge skin and the top skin (on the RV-6 wing) near the wing tip. Mr
> Richardson's directions say it gives him 8kts warning of a stall.
>
> The stall warning unit is based on a strip of metal 1/2" wide and 2 1/2"
> long, hinged (to a mounting bracket) at the back, with the front of the
> vane sticking out of the slot cut in the wing. The vane is lifted by the
> local upward air flow generated as the wing approaches a stall. The
> lifted vane presses against a contact on a microswitch, which is wired
> to a horn/buzzer of your choice, mounted in the cockpit.
>
> While EVERYTHING seems to take thrice as long as it should, I think
> an RV builder would be able to fabricate one of these stall warners in a
> day. The critical thing is knowing where to cut the little slot in the
> wing, and Mr Richardson provided us with that data.
>
> Mr Richardson did a nice job brazing all the pieces together and
> supplying a nice shiny cover plate for the slot. Whenever I get a
> scanner (supposed to arrive on the truck this week, Best Buy says) I'll
> scan in a photo of Richardson's unit for listers to see.
>
> Tim
> _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
> Tim Lewis
> N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
> Springfield VA
> http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
> timrv6a(at)iname.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
John Fasching wrote:
>
>
> I deeply regret any crash, especially when it MIGHT have been prevented (if
> as speculated it was a stall/spin) with the use of the LRI - that's exactly
> why I put it in my RV-6A..excess toys? I think not!
>
I really hate it when people speculate on accidents before the ntsb
reports
are done. Quite frankly if I had to depend on a LRI to save my butt I am
going
to quit flying.
Here is a copy of the FAA preliminary report.
Descr: ACFT TOOK OFF, WITNESSES HEARD THE ENGINE "POP," THE ACFT WING
CLIPPED A TREE, AND THE ACFT CRASHED INTO BAIRD CREEK, THE
PILOT/SOLE OCCUPANT SUFFERED FATAL INJURIES, THE ACFT WAS
DESTROYED, OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES ARE UNKNOWN, EDGEWATER, MD.
These can be read at
http://www.faa.gov/avr/aai/iirform.htm
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William R. Geipel" <czech6(at)win.bright.net> |
Patent discriptions were written by an engineer. Who can understand anything
they say. The probe hangs in undisturbed air. It can be mounted on the nose of
the airplane and will give the same info. The nose of twins. Prop wash gives an
indication of allot of lift! It is measuring pressure differential between 2
ports on the probe. Much like the bottom and top of the wing. One port is on the
leading edge and one port is 90 degrees around the corner from it. I have one.
It works.
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
>
> > After reading the contents of the Lift Reserve Indicator related sites at:
> > http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?patent_number=4559822
> > http://www.liftreserve.com/
> > I'm even more confused concerning the performance characteristics of
> > this system.
>
> I'm made somewhat skeptical of the patent's claims when I read some
> of the assertions in the patent, including:
> "Neither airspeed nor angle of attack indication reliably identifies the
> critical conditions of wing lift." (page 5, line 56, left column).
>
> According to the FAA's AC 61-21A, page 264,
> "One of the most important things a pilot should understand about
> angle of attack is that for any given airplane the stalling or critical
> angle of attack remains constant regardless of weight, dynamic
> pressure, bank angle, or pitch attitude..." I'm no aerodynamics expert,
> but it appears to me that the patent assertions conflict with what the
> FAA says.
>
> The LRI appears to measure "dynamic" air pressure against the
> bottom of the wing. Lift is generated by the pressure difference
> between the bottom and the top of the wing. Can any of the
> aerodynamics experts on the list tell us if a measurement of the
> dynamic air pressure under the wing, by itself, is an accurate measure
> of "closeness to stall"?
>
> The LRI certainly is an interesting idea. I'm not sure, however, that it
> really measures "the surplus kinetic energy of an aircraft mass" as the
> patent claims. Anybody have any AOA vs LRI empirical data?
>
> Tim
> _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
> Tim Lewis
> N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
> Springfield VA
> http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
> timrv6a(at)iname.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Wing Skin Intersection |
>
>Hello,
>
>Where the wing skins meet there is an overlap. The outboard is prepunched
>but the inboard one is not. In short you can't see the rib much less the
>centerline. I do not want to drill without knowing for sure the rib is
>lined up.
>
>If I follow the Orndoff video I wind up with two skins completely clecoed
>and not being able to see the centerline. He doesn't show what he did in
>the video to insure rib alignment.
>
>Suggestions?
>
Vince,
I drilled the top skins on first. As George suggested, I left the splice
until the end. The top and bottom of the rib will not move much, so I
drilled them first. I then checked alignment by reference to the seam from
the back. You can see and check the position of the holes in the rib flange
from the back as you drill as long as the bottom skin isn't on. I then
drilled the bottom skin except for the splice, and removed one of the top
skins (can't remember which), and used the same technique.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: plenum cooling system - was: book "speed with economy" |
> I know of one builder who spent many extra hours building a carefully
> designed (and beautifully crafted) plenum for his RV-6, in the quest for
> more speed. His aircraft is no faster than "stock" RV's.
>
<--stuff snipped-->
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
Rob,
Do you know whether he decreased the size of the cooling inlets?
In theory, the plenum cooling system should allow proper cooling with
less cooling air flow, because there is less air leakage, leaving a
higher percentage of air for actual cooling. But, cooling drag is
largely a function of how much cooling airflow there is (assuming
that the cooling inlet and exhaust are in the same place), so you
probably won't realize much of a drag reduction unless you close down
the inlet and reduce the cooling air flow.
I was seriously considering putting a plenum chamber type system on
my RV-8. I'll be pretty bummed out if I don't get a few knots out of
it. I guess the beauty is that I will never know for sure, since I
can't do before and after testing.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (wing leading edges)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Wing Skin Intersection |
Vince:
You wrote: >Where the wing skins meet there is an overlap. The outboard is
prepunched
>but the inboard one is not. In short you can't see the rib much less the
>centerline. I do not want to drill without knowing for sure the rib is
>lined up.
Check your skins: there should be matched pre-punched holes at the overlap.
If not, you have either a manufacturing defect or ??????
George Kilishek
#80006
>
>If I follow the Orndoff video I wind up with two skins completely clecoed
>and not being able to see the centerline. He doesn't show what he did in
>the video to insure rib alignment.
>
>Suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>Vince Himsl
>RV8 Wings
>Moscow, ID USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Wing Skin Splice Bevel? |
Vince:
You wrote: My plans say/show to bevel the intersection of the top and
bottom skins
>where they intesect. Just how does one bevel aluminum? One piece skin is
>almost starting to look easier
This is a two minute job. Take a body file and draw it across the corner
(inside of outer skin, outside of inner skin). About 5 swipes on each skin
does it. When I say draw it across the corner, make an isosoles triange,
with the skin corner being the "top" of the triangle.
George Kilishek
#80006
>.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$? |
Join an EAA Chapter. Usually they have seminars on Riveting and other
construction basics. An EAA Technical Counselor is invaluable as well. You
can get practice kits and do exactly what the course will teach you. Along
with the basics of riveting you will need to obtain the appropriate FAA
Publications such as the A&P Airframe Guide. You will learn about the
importance of minimum edge distances, types of aluminum, rivet types, how to
choose the appropriate rivet size, etc.
In the case of the RV it's easy as the rivet sizes and other details are in
the plans, available through Vans Tech Support and of course this email list
and archives.
If you feel too nervous to trust what you read and cannot find a local EAA
Chapter then by all means take the course. One other suggestion would be to
look and see if there is a local college or technical school that deals with
A&P Certification Courses. You can probably take a night course on Airframe
101 and learn much more than you will in a weekend crash course.
Don't want to sound long winded. I am an A&P with both military and civilian
experience so I thought I would share my opinion.
Sincerely,
Steven B. Janicki
Sr. Director
Oracle Data Center
(650) 506-2740
----- Original Message -----
From: R.James <vtx(at)ntplx.net>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 5:48 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$?
Hi all!
My golly, you are a lively bunch. I've been on the Europa list for past
year or so, and get no more than 2 memos a week. The RV-Listers fire
off 40~50 A DAY! wow! At any rate, that is a big reason why I just
called in an RV6 QB order to Vans', instead of Ivan Shaw @ Europa. A
HUGE info base of active builders in all parts of the USA. That, and
the fact that composites are an utter nightmare (IMHO).
At any rate, I'm a "sheet-metal" neophyte. Have purchased (and viewed)
all the Ordorff videos, and it appears that if I throw enough money at
this project it may actually be do-able by my retirement in 5 years.
Question is this: I've contacted Alexander Sportair Workshop folks, and
found an opening in the Feb 98 "RV Assembly Workshop" in Griffin GA.
Tuition, flight, stay, etc will run about $600~$800.
Has anyone out there taken this 2 1/2 day course? If so, will it be
worth the time and effort in the overall? Or would the $800 be better
off spent on a good compressor/rivet gun & allot of practice on aluminum
trash cans? (heheheee).
Thanks for any advice!
Russ James
Connecticut, USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve/Angle of Attack |
> If your stall warning goes off do you glance at
>the ASI as you push the nose down or are you scanning intently for traffic?
I look at the ASI as I push.
>What if your stall warning sound is not working and you don't know it?
You should be able to recover from a stall. Certify to FAR 25 and you won't
have to worry about it.
>Does that mean your going to crash because you never look at the ASI?
No. I have a better feel for the airplane than that.
>If some engine parameter beeps or whistles at you do you look to see what
the
>instrument is telling you.
Yes. It's responding to a process that was thought about by people whose
lives were not on the line during the decision process.
>Am I to understand that when an instrument
>"speaks up" then it's okay to bring your eyes into the cockpit, but not
>before?
The rules are different if you are IFR or VFR. Hopefully, if you have lots
of bells and whistles, they are "coded" as to attention required (ie
Warning - pilot action required NOW lest something bad is going to happen
SOON, Caution - pilot action required at some point lest something bad may
happen . . . . both require pilot acknowledgement in FAR 25 aircraft).
>I may be wrong in this but I think fighter pilots have some sort
>of instrument that they actually look at when they are flying and I think
>landing too! Will someone with some experience in this please set me
>straight.
Are you referring to a HUD (heads up display) or AOA indicator?
>I don't understand how so many people can bash the "old" technology of the
>Lycoming engine, but when an "improvement" to the ASI comes along, it's
>"Black Magic!"
The engines lag in technology simply because of economics; it costs money to
certify, and unless you can sell lots of engines (like GM), you can't
recoupe the costs. As for AOA/ASI indicators, it's not magic. Not too many
years ago, pressure transducers were prohibitively expensive; the automotive
industries use them now and they have gotten much cheaper. Economics again.
>AL (Still taking names!)
Please write my name down, I am always glad to help or get someone who can.
Ron
Sr. Flight Test Engineer
Major Spam
Use normalized AOA every working day
ps. If this thing is a simple differential pressure transducer, how do you
explain the difference between 1G and 2G level flight (sure hope
differential pressure doubles)? In other words, an 1800# airplane with
100sf of wing area has a differential pressure of 18psf (0.125psi) in 1G
flight; at 2G it better have 36psf (0.25psi).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV6 Quick Build 4-Sale |
A friend of mine has an RV-6 quick build for sale. The plane has the tip up
canopy and the empenage was built by Art Chard. Nothing on the wings or
fuselage has been started. The plane is uncrated and is located in Portland
Oregon. He also has an IO-320 that had 1600 hours on a factory remanufacture
before it was disassembled. He was planning on installing new cylinder
assemblies and got rid of the old ones.
He would like to sell them both together.
Plane $18,750
Engine $6,500
Please E-Mail me off the list for more information
RobHickman(at)AOL.com
or call
Craig Roberts
(503) 314-7757
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Condolences / Lee Field |
My condolences go out to Bill's friends and family. I have lost 3
friends is 3 separate RV accidents and know how you feel.
I flew into Lee Field near Annapolis MD right after I got my pilots
license. I was taking a friend to visit her family in Edgewater. I
still had my temporary license. From what I remember, the field is
2,500 long and you approach over power lines and a gas station at one
end. The other end has trees. I was a sharp new pilot in a new C-172
(less than 100 on the hobbs.) I made 2 go a rounds before I landed.
Kept coming in too hot. I finally dragged it in and was off the
runway in less than 800 feet. The 2nd go around at Lee was my most
scary aviation experience. I had full power in, stall horn blaring,
pushing forward on the yoke, climbing and just missed the trees at the
end of the runway. Actually flew through the cut out where they were
lower for departing aircraft. I can still see the trees to the side
of the aircraft on climb out.
Too make a long story short, I ended up giving about 6 rides from this
airport to her most of her brothers and sisters. This was an
intimidating airport for me when I was a low time pilot.
==
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$? |
R.James wrote:
>
>
****SNIP****
> Question is this: I've contacted Alexander Sportair Workshop folks, and
> found an opening in the Feb 98 "RV Assembly Workshop" in Griffin GA.
> Tuition, flight, stay, etc will run about $600~$800.
>
> Has anyone out there taken this 2 1/2 day course? If so, will it be
> worth the time and effort in the overall? Or would the $800 be better
> off spent on a good compressor/rivet gun & allot of practice on aluminum
> trash cans? (heheheee).
>
> Thanks for any advice!
> Russ James
> Connecticut, USA
>
Russ,
I took the course and IMHO it was worth the $$. I drove to Ft Worth Tx
so my travel expenses weren't quite as high. You actually build a small
wing section which requires cutting, drilling, dimpling,
riveting...etc.. You learn how to use about all of the tools that you
will use to build an RV. Had a good time. If there is an RV builder in
your area, he/she may be able to give you enough pointers to get you
going and then use the $$ saved for tools.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/23/98 9:28:09 PM Central Standard Time,
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com writes:
<<
I really hate it when people speculate on accidents before the ntsb
reports
are done. Quite frankly if I had to depend on a LRI to save my butt I am
going
to quit flying. >>
Absolutely- This LRI/AOA indicator thread is getting as tiresome as the primer
and cell phone threads.
B.Clary
75TX flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$? |
I can't speak to the RV workshop specifically, but I took the Sportair
fabric covering class last year and found that it was very useful. The
class was professionally presented and went into the little tricks that
often aren't covered in the book. Fortunately, mine was only a few hours
drive and all I had to pay was gas and dining.
Doug Hormann
-----Original Message-----
From: R.James <vtx(at)ntplx.net>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 5:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$?
>
>Hi all!
>My golly, you are a lively bunch. I've been on the Europa list for past
>year or so, and get no more than 2 memos a week. The RV-Listers fire
>off 40~50 A DAY! wow! At any rate, that is a big reason why I just
>called in an RV6 QB order to Vans', instead of Ivan Shaw @ Europa. A
>HUGE info base of active builders in all parts of the USA. That, and
>the fact that composites are an utter nightmare (IMHO).
>
>At any rate, I'm a "sheet-metal" neophyte. Have purchased (and viewed)
>all the Ordorff videos, and it appears that if I throw enough money at
>this project it may actually be do-able by my retirement in 5 years.
>
>Question is this: I've contacted Alexander Sportair Workshop folks, and
>found an opening in the Feb 98 "RV Assembly Workshop" in Griffin GA.
>Tuition, flight, stay, etc will run about $600~$800.
>
>Has anyone out there taken this 2 1/2 day course? If so, will it be
>worth the time and effort in the overall? Or would the $800 be better
>off spent on a good compressor/rivet gun & allot of practice on aluminum
>trash cans? (heheheee).
>
>Thanks for any advice!
>Russ James
>Connecticut, USA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
In a message dated 11/23/98 7:24:23 PM Central Standard Time,
robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com writes:
<<
I know of one builder who spent many extra hours building a carefully
designed (and beautifully crafted) plenum for his RV-6, in the quest for
more speed. His aircraft is no faster than "stock" RV's.
>>
I don't believe the first purpose of a plenum chamber system is more speed. I
am of the opinion the real purpose is better cooling of the cylinders and the
oil.
Speed is a secondary benefit only thru changing the entrance and the air exits
after getting the cooling optimized.
B.Clary
75TX flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: LOUD "AIRHORN" WHILE TAXIING? |
> I was doing some low speed taxi/brake checking this morning. (RV-6A,
> wheelpants off) Just touching the brakes produced the a very loud squeel,
> not like brakes, but what a spectator said sounded like an airhorn.
> Happened
> any time the brake was applied, at any speed up to about 20 knots. (My
> upper
> limit)
My brakes sounded like that on the 6A until after the first ten hours or more
of operations. Then they broke in (?) Anyway, they are silent now, except
for a slight dragging "hiss" when the plane is moved by hand (you'd never hear
it over the engine), which I assume is due to those bogus original springs on
the master cylinders ;-)
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
Guys,
Sorry for any confusion in all of the multiple replies, but the
info. is correct.
To clarify:
AN nut/bolt combos dry torque
AN-818 flare fittings lubricated torque
... Gil (too aggressive message snipping) Alexander
>
>
> Gil,
>
> On Sunday night you wrote:
>
> Interestingly enough, AC43.13A gives a different set of figures
> that
> are somewhat higher in value, and with less tolerance. And yes they are
>
> POUND INCH.
> This is one case where a LUBRICATED (not dry) fit is needed to
> obtain
> these torque values. The FAA recommends hydraulic fluid, but I would
> use a
> small amount of Fuelube on the threads.
>
> On Monday morning you wrote:
>
> ... as I said before, AC43.13A is the bible. The basic bolt
> torque
> charts in this bible for AN nut/bolt hardware is quoted as DRY.
>
> I'm confused. Aren't these two messages saying different things? As I
> recall, I used the 43.13 values with Fuelube on my fuel and vent line
> fittings. Please clarify.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jack
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: [Fwd: Re: RV 6 crash] |
> So I raise my glass in a toast to all those we have known that have been
>taken too soon, and to all those that just faded away. They will fly with
>us always. And if there is a heaven where angels fly on silver wings,
>they had best check-six. There's one Hell of a buzz job coming their way.
> Press on Bill.
>
>Eric J. Henson (Fuselage)
>E-Rex(at)Juno.com
>Mason-Dixon Engineering
Last night, I read a message posted by Charlie Kuss with the name Eric in
it. Something told me inside it was Eric Henson, but something else inside
did not want to believe it was the Eric I knew, the one who had lost his
hangermate.
Before Eric moved to Florida, we spent many hours helping with (and messing
up) each others RV-6 projects. Even when I helped ding up his wing skins,
he would take me for a ride in the Aero Club T-34 anyway. He also set me up
with my the wonderful lady who is, as of two weeks ago, my wife.
I was very glad when he found airplane people in Florida. And I sure wish I
was there for him now. Sorry for your loss Eric.
Godspeed to Bill.
Rob Acker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
| Subject: | Aileron top skin/spar rivets. |
Fellow Listers,
I am about to rivet the Ailerons together and I have given some thought
to the top spar/skin rivet line. I checked the archive, most have used
a bucking bar and gun but with a warning as to the difficulty.
One suggestion was to backrivet using a C frame snap in the gun fitted
with a 1/8" 470 squeezer die. I do like the idea of backriveting these.
I was wondering if I could use an Avery gooseneck 1/8" rivet snap (#
4584) to do this job.
Can anyone tell me if this is possible? Perhaps someone who has one
could overlay it on the RV6 aileron plan (the full size cross section)
and tell me if the goose part of the snap will clear the spar web and
opposite flange.
Doug Gray
RV-6 Sydney, Australia
reply direct to (mailto:doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nigel Marshall" <marshan(at)meritorauto.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paris France RVers |
I live 20 miles outside Paris - how can I help?
Nigel Marshall
Chevreuse, France
RV-4 (# 4062)
Skinning second wing
marshan(at)meritorauto.com
In you dont live in the Paris France Area Please Trash this message
If you live in the paris france area please contact me off the list. My
family and I are planning a trip and are in need of lodging information.
chet razer
RV6A Miss Chiquita 130 hrs since January
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
>
> >Remember that stall is a result of angle of attack to the relative
> wind,
> >not speed. The wing will stall at the same angle of attack
> irregardless
> >of the weight. Stall speed increases with weight in relation to the
> >increased lift, i. e. angle of attack, speed, or some combination of
> the
> >two, needed to "lift" the increased weight. Theoretically therefore,
> the
> >LRI will give you accurate impending stall info regardless of weight.
Which makes it the same as a normal vane type or hole in the leading edge
sucking on a horn type Stall Warning device as used on all the common GA
aircraft. They are both dependent on angle of attack of the fixed portion
of the wing, as is the LRI. They both operate at a higher speed at higher
weight or higher G load, Just like an LRI. Because the wing stalls at the
same angle regardless of load or speed.
The hole in the wing style is better in a high angle of attack, high power
climb situation. In this situation the vane type operates too early (still
fail safe) as the weight of the vane is not acting at right angles to the
hinge line of the vane. The hole in the wing style is much cheaper too as
it costs a fraction of the price of the vane style, or of the LRI for that
matter. It also needs no power supply.
On the subject of angle of attack with flaps down, a new design 10 seat GA
airplane which flew here recently has such a different wing angle at the
stall with flap down that it has a separate stall indicator switch for
flaps down, this is actuated by a switch on the flap.
, Cheers, Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall Warning (inexpensive) |
>
> What happens in an accelerated stall?
>
> MD
It sounds at a higher speed of course.(same angle of attack)Cheers, Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$? |
Russ . . . I, too, looked closely at the Europa and also the Glastar--and I,
too, came away convinced Van's is the way to go. In my case--an RV-8a.
I've taken two of the workshops . . . metal working and composites . . . and
early next month I'll attend a workshop specific to the Van's series of
planes (held in Corona, CA). I think the workshops are worth it. They are
definitely hands on . . . you have several professionals helping you and
giving you good advice. They help erase doubt and to clarify. On the metal
working class we got to use just about everything (snips, grinders, drills,
bucking bars, several versions/types of rivet guns, belt sanders, pneumatic
squeezers, etc. etc. etc.). So--bottom line, I think it is time and money
well spent.
Rick Jory
Highlands Ranch, CO
RV-8a tail kit will be ordered after Corona course.
-----Original Message-----
From: R.James <vtx(at)ntplx.net>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$?
>
>Hi all!
>My golly, you are a lively bunch. I've been on the Europa list for past
>year or so, and get no more than 2 memos a week. The RV-Listers fire
>off 40~50 A DAY! wow! At any rate, that is a big reason why I just
>called in an RV6 QB order to Vans', instead of Ivan Shaw @ Europa. A
>HUGE info base of active builders in all parts of the USA. That, and
>the fact that composites are an utter nightmare (IMHO).
>
>At any rate, I'm a "sheet-metal" neophyte. Have purchased (and viewed)
>all the Ordorff videos, and it appears that if I throw enough money at
>this project it may actually be do-able by my retirement in 5 years.
>
>Question is this: I've contacted Alexander Sportair Workshop folks, and
>found an opening in the Feb 98 "RV Assembly Workshop" in Griffin GA.
>Tuition, flight, stay, etc will run about $600~$800.
>
>Has anyone out there taken this 2 1/2 day course? If so, will it be
>worth the time and effort in the overall? Or would the $800 be better
>off spent on a good compressor/rivet gun & allot of practice on aluminum
>trash cans? (heheheee).
>
>Thanks for any advice!
>Russ James
>Connecticut, USA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Attention Gordon Comfort |
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
Listers,
Sorry to waste bandwidth, Gordon, I've attempted to reply to your post
directly, but it keeps bouncing back. Please email me your correct email
address offlist. TIA
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | AOA clarifications |
>> Stall is a result of angle of attack
Yes!
>The hole in the wing style is better in a high angle of attack, high power
>climb situation. In this situation the vane type operates too early (still
>fail safe) as the weight of the vane is not acting at right angles to the
>hinge line of the vane
Why is a hole better than a vane at high AOA and high power climb? It's NOT
and here's why.
We are actually talking about 3 different types of AOA indicators: an LRI
type unit which measures differential pressure across the airfoil (or a
shape in front of the wing), an aerodynamic switch ala C172 which measures
the stagnation point on the wing (a function of AOA), and a true vane
(normally mounted on a boom or side of the airplane. ALL the systems are
configuration dependent! The pressure sensors don't measure pressure
perpendicular to the flight path (lift), the stagnation point on a wing
changes with configuration on the switch, and the wing stalls at a different
AOA with flaps so the vane angle is different. BUT here's the difference.
When the airplane stalls and the airflow separates, the pressure measurement
is useless, the switch is bang/bang so it's not giving any useful data, but
the vane trucks on, independent of all else . . . . still measuring local
AOA. We don't perform ALL our flight tests with vanes because they look
cool . . . though they are.
The AOA that goes with each and every one of our planes has a different
curve for each flap setting (and some with gear, too, if it changes the
local flow pattern around the vane).
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME(at)worldnet.att.net
ps. Sorry, Matt, I've wasted a lot of space with this one . . . . . .
checks in the mail. If anyone wants to know more, please contact me
off-line at the above address . . . or stop by if you're in the Wichita
area.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
>You might try Radio Shack,they have a reasonably priced crimper or Allied
>Electronics also sells one.
>
>
Mousser Electronics also has one that works well. I have this tool and am
surprised how often I use molex connectors. It wasn't expensive, around $10
or so.
Take a look at the MicroMonitor assembly manual, available on-line from
Rocky Mountain Instruments at:
http://rkymtn.com/rm02000.htm
There is a page on how to properly install molex connectors along with the
part numbers for the correct tool. Remember, ALWAYS use the right tool for
the right job, you will not be sorry.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | LRI- RV-6 Crash-Primer |
>Absolutely- This LRI/AOA indicator thread is getting as tiresome as the
primer
>and cell phone threads.
###I hear the complaint. And do agree that some messages are just not
interesting. So I delete them, and move on to something that is interesting
to me. I mostly find that when I am not interested in what someone else
has to say or speculate on any given subject, is when I "assume" I know all
there is to know on that subject or they differ from what I believe is the
way it should be. Delete, Delete!
Enjoy ! And have better day!
Denny
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: LOUD "AIRHORN" WHILE TAXIING? |
Bill,
You hear the noise in the brakes while moving the
airplane because these are *0* clearance systems.
A little drag or noise is normal.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Comfort <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron top skin/spar rivets. |
Doug Gray wrote:
>
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> I am about to rivet the Ailerons together and I have given some thought
> to the top spar/skin rivet line.
> Doug Gray
> RV-6 Sydney, Australia
> reply direct to (mailto:doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au)
Doug: I'll reply to the list because others might be interested.
I made a bucking bar system that can be used on the ailerons, either top
or bottom, or both. It consists of a bar of cold rolled steel 3/8" X
1-1/2" and about 60" long. The exact size is not crucial. To this I
affixed with double faced tape a small bar that began life as 1/2"
square and 3" or so long. This bar was ground to a bevel approximating
the included angle of the spar flange. The aileron was fixtured so that
the riveting could be done from below with the bar resting in the spar
channel. The bar was taped to minimise scuffing. With a bit of
practice it was easy to insert the rivet with a thumb, slip the mushroom
rivet set onto it, seat the rivet by pushing hard enough to lift the bar
assembly and shoot the rivet. It is necessary to leave the end ribs out
while this is done. A helper to position the bar speeds things up
considerably. The crick in your neck goes away pretty soon. This
enables closing the aileron with driven rivets.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
I'll bet your find sex "tiresome", also!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: UFOBUCK(at)aol.com <UFOBUCK(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 Crash
>
>In a message dated 11/23/98 9:28:09 PM Central Standard Time,
>jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com writes:
>
><<
> I really hate it when people speculate on accidents before the ntsb
> reports
> are done. Quite frankly if I had to depend on a LRI to save my butt I am
> going
> to quit flying. >>
>
>Absolutely- This LRI/AOA indicator thread is getting as tiresome as the
primer
>and cell phone threads.
>
>B.Clary
>75TX flying
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
Listers,
IMHO, the Radio Shack crimping tools is a piece of junk. I bought one,
and after just a few pins, threw it in the "Round File"..... I ended up
getting a used tool at a aviation flee market....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Caldwell [SMTP:thomasc(at)owc.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 8:15 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary?
>
>
> You might try Radio Shack,they have a reasonably priced crimper or Allied
> Electronics also sells one.
>
>
> Regards
> Tom
>
>
> >
> >). Do I need to spend big bucks for a special Molex Crimping Tool
> >($45 in Pacific Coast Avionics catalog), or can I just use an everyday
> >crimping tool?
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Sportair Workshop? Worth the $$? |
News-Software: UReply 3.1
In a previous message, it was written:
>
>At any rate, I'm a "sheet-metal" neophyte. Have purchased (and viewed)
>all the Ordorff videos, and it appears that if I throw enough money at
>this project it may actually be do-able by my retirement in 5 years.
>
>Question is this: I've contacted Alexander Sportair Workshop folks, and
>found an opening in the Feb 98 "RV Assembly Workshop" in Griffin GA.
>Tuition, flight, stay, etc will run about $600~$800.
>
>Has anyone out there taken this 2 1/2 day course? If so, will it be
>worth the time and effort in the overall? Or would the $800 be better
>off spent on a good compressor/rivet gun & allot of practice on aluminum
>trash cans? (heheheee).
Went to the Orndorff class after ordering my emp. Typical garage tinkerer
and woodworking hobbyist, no sheet metal experience (George had fun getting
me to use the snips correctly).
For me, this course was the best money I have spent in preparation for my
project. I could have stumbled through - I'm no dummy - but it was worth
the price for the confidence alone! I had no problems jumping into the
emp kit when I got it, and I haven't ordered any replacement parts yet
(knock on my head).
Relative to the cost of your project? Do it.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 Starting wings!
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 11/24/98 9:23:14 AM Central Standard Time,
cgalley(at)accessus.net writes:
<<
I'll bet your find sex "tiresome", also!!!
>>
Cy you are right but if you are good at it and you put forth your best effort
it does take something out of you. :)
B.Clary
75TX flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglassing Windshield-RV-8 |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
I am unclear about how to get a nice edge on the plexiglass windshield
when fiberglassing it in place. If I use electricians tape to mask off
the exact line I want on the windshield, and use a 2" fiberglass tape and
epoxy, with the edge right up against the electricians tape, will that
give me a good edge? I have heard some talk about 'scoring with a knife
to get a crisp edge, but this sounds a little scary to me. What is the
proper technique here? Some have said they would just lay it up on the
windshield, then take it off and sand it and shape it, then attach it.
Others say heck with that, just make it out of metal. I tend to stick
with just doing as per the manual and Georges video, that is to apply it
and sand it in place. I thought maybe I would just have the first layer
of glass go up to the line of the electricians tape, and the other two
layers slightly back away from the edge. Would this make it easier to get
a crisp edge? If I am careful with application of the first layer, can I
just peel off the electricians tape and have a nice edge? You can see I
am confused by this whole thing, I guess because you basically get one
shot at it, or you replace the entire canopy! Thanks in advance.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Priming |
>The only way you can safely prime is with a priming system that puts fuel
>directly into the cylinders, either with a hand primer or with a boost pump
>install a solenoid in the system so that priming can be done with a switch.
This is what I did; works very well with no fuel lines for primer in the
cockpit.
>With carburated engines only three cylinders are normally primed the other
>being used to give manifold pressure readings.....
Because the front cylinders were so accessable to the placement of the
primer lines, I only primed the front cylinders and have had no problems
starting, even on those cold Colorado mornings. I preheat, but occasionally
the airplane is in a place where there is no preheat (plug-in for the oil
sump heater). I never have to use it when the weather is warm.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
I agree different airplanes are different, but aerodynamics don't change
based upon the airplane. Even LoPresti the speed merchant, asserts that
the single biggest drag reduction in a certified plane can be obtained
in the engine cooling system. Based upon the certified engine cooling
systems I have worked on, there is no basic difference between them and
a stock RV-6 system (except for maybe the cowl design, which does make a
difference). The RV-6 systems I have seen looks just like a Cessna
150/172!
I agree that a plenum is a lot of work, possibly another 500 hours of
work to get the cooling system to work well and surrender those extra
knots. But when a stock RV cruises at 180 MPH, trying to get another
8-10 MPH is real tough. Bill Anders and Steve Bernard have done
something to make their planes go fast, and I don't think it is all just
more horsepower.
As for an RV with plenum being no faster than a stock RV; you have to
compare the numbers before and after to the same airplane as no two RVs
are the same. Additionally, you have to optimize the inlet area to the
outlet area. This is real black magic (fluid dymanics)! In my opinion
and that is all this next statement is: designing and improving engine
cooling is a combination of rocket science and black magic, sometimes
the science does what it should but the magic doesn't or vice versa.
In Paser's book he writes about 25 years of modification and testing.
Not all of his modifications worked, and that is the difficult part, you
modify then test and this becomes a continuous laborious process. Most
people are not willing to forgo flying their RV to spend all the down
time that a true experimental modification will take (i.e., one hour of
test flying and 20-50 hours of modifications, over and over again).
I absolutely agree time spent on a cooling plenum system can be better
spent elsewhere on the airplane. But first you must answer the
question, how fast is fast enough. What is the real difference between
180 MPH and 188 MPH in cruise? There will always be people out there
trying to push the limits and make improvements solely for the
improvements sake. Nothing wrong with this approach, as there is also
nothing wrong with the builder who wants a bare bones completely stock
RV.
Interesting, I have almost completed the finishing kit and none of my
kits came with parts for the cooling system or drawings (except for the
basic cowl, is there another kit after the finishing kit?). Maybe Van
has made some improvements to the system that I don't know about. In my
manual Van writes more about primer than he does about the cooling
system. I am glad that Van has improved this area for the quickbuild
kits. Another reason for buying the quickbuild.
I don't know if Paser's modifications will make a difference on the
stock RV, but my origninal comments were based upon many hours studing
his book with my aerodynamic and fluid dymanics text books as well. Van
may well have developed a cooling system that is superior to Paser's. I
have not seen any RVs that have incorporated Paser's concepts, so I can
not say they will or will not work for an RV. For those who have not
read the book, the plenum is only one of the many modifications to the
cooling system. But, for my aerodynamic inquiring mind, I am very
interested in Paser's (or anyone else) modifications and speed
improvements in the engine cooling area.
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
>
> Different aircraft, differently designed stock cooling system (apparently
> very inefficient).
>
> I know of one builder who spent many extra hours building a carefully
> designed (and beautifully crafted) plenum for his RV-6, in the quest for
> more speed. His aircraft is no faster than "stock" RV's.
>
> To me this indicated that time put into designing and fabricating a custom
> plenum would be better spent elsewhere on the project, and that Van's
> cooling system must not be that inefficient after all. My RV-6 kit came
> with drawings for the complete cooling system (and came with parts for it),
> leaving me only to build it as outlined.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary?
Remember, ALWAYS use the right tool for
>the right job, you will not be sorry.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
>
And remember, be nice to your tool, it will give you years of pleasure!
Larry
eschew obfuscation!
building wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: NEED PNEUMATIC A TYPE RIVETER |
Hey RV Listers:
I am working on an RV4 Fuselage. Replacing the anterior floor web reinforcing
with 1/8th
3/4X3/4 angle. I had to remove the middle motor mount bracket and replace it as
well.
Now I cant get to the rivets up under the firewall. I could use a pneumatic "A"
type
compression riveter. Is there anyone in the northern California area that has
one that
they might want to rent for a weekend. I've got about 12 rivets to finish this
thing and
turn it right side up. You can reach me at daronson(at)cwnet.com. Please answer
direct to
my email to avoid cluttering the list. THANKS A BUNCH.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | RV4 Footwell Plans |
Referencing the thread from the archives does anyone have a copy of the
article they could fax/email/send me? Any assistance greatly appreciated.
Match: #5 Message: #11220 Date: May 21, 1996 From:
[tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil] (Tom Craig-Stearman) Subject:
RV-4 footwells
I spent the weekend installing rear seat footwells in my RV-4. I used
Paul McReynold's drawings in the April RVator. It took me three evenings
and a Saturday morning to retrofit them to my finished floorboards, and they
look great! Very comfortable. I heartily recommend them. Besides, it was
nice to be working in aluminum again after many weeks of electrical stuff.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil
Regards,
Steven B. Janicki
Sr. Director
Oracle Data Center
500 Oracle Pkwy
Redwood Shores, CA
94065
650-506-2740
FAX 650-633-2165
name="Steve B Janicki.vcf"
filename="Steve B Janicki.vcf"
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Janicki;Steve;B
FN:Steve B Janicki
ORG:Oracle Corporation;Data Center
TITLE:Sr. Director
TEL;WORK;VOICE:650-506-2740
TEL;WORK;FAX:650-633-2165
ADR;WORK:;4op4;500 Oracle Pkwy;Redwood Shores;CA;94065;USA
Pkwy=3D0D=3D0ARedwood Shores, CA 94065=3D0D=3D0AUSA
URL:
URL:http://www.oracle.com
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com
REV:19981124T185147Z
END:VCARD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George McNutt <gmcnutt(at)intergate.bc.ca> |
| Subject: | Manifold Pressure Gauge |
Ken Hoshowski wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
> My manifold pressure gauge is sticking after about five years of use.
> I read somewhere that the line from the engine to the gauge should at some
> point be lower that the inlet fitting to the gauge, and that a drain or
> filter could be installed at this point to occassionally drain any moisture
> that accumulates.
> Has anyone tried this?
> Thanks
> Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
Ken some manifold pressure gauges have a needle valve, accessable with a
small screwdriver, in the inlet fitting. Purpose is to adjust for
pressure fluctuations, sometimes a small adjustment helps a slow or
lagging manifold pressure gauge.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Lift Reserve/Angle of Attack |
I hate to jump into this ongoing whatever because these things are not of much
interest to me. I did, however, outfit my Fox with two homemade Angle of
Attack Indicators. I mounted each to the jury struts and calibrated them
during my test flights. I painted a red zone to indicate an impending stall
and green for normal. They worked great since most of the flying I do in this
particular airplane is at tree top level and involves much aggressive turning
and banking at very low airspeeds. This type of flying allows very little time
to monitor gizmos in the panel as your eyes are Working hard outside. The Jury
strut mounted AOA's were very useful as they could be seen as I maneuvered.I
took them off to make some nicer ones and never did. Since RV's have no place
for such a simple device and would clutter the clean look anyway I then vote
for the AOA that provides an aural warning of impending stall and I am not
sure any panel space needs to be given to such a device. Most homebuilts have
no stall warning device at all for many reasons. As to building to the FAA
Certs. why pray tell do that-----I do not want a RV that flies like a Cessna
172 or a Piper Warrior --if I did I would just go get one of those and save
myself a lot of grief. If I wanted a factory job it would have to be a Tiger
anyway because they have a delightfull feel (I used to have one) that is lost
in most mass produced airplanes. Take your family for a drive through the
sky--is not that what all the add copy used to say? I do not think we drive
our RV's through the sky--we FLY them. AOA's can be a good thing maybe I will
get one for my 4. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Windshield-RV-8 |
> layers slightly back away from the edge. Would this make it easier to get
> a crisp edge? If I am careful with application of the first layer, can I
> just peel off the electricians tape and have a nice edge? You can see I
> am confused by this whole thing, I guess because you basically get one
> shot at it, or you replace the entire canopy! Thanks in advance.
I haven't done this step yet, but it seems to be a good candidate for
prototyping. Get some acrylic at the hardware store and try various
things. Even when I'm told how to do something by someone with experience,
I like to try it out on my own on a scrap or something.
Alex P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Powell <RVMike(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I am ready to order an engine for my RV-6A. Desire an O320, 160hp with
dynafocal mount. From an installation point of view, are there any
model numbers I should avoid?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lift Reserve Indicator |
I can understand that the LRI/AOA thread may be getting tiresome to
some. But to me it
is getting more interesting all the time. (There is also a well-written
article on this topic in the latest issue of Kitplanes.) It would seem
that although each system gets its airdata in
different ways, they both seem to work very well and are quite
reliable. As a student pilot
and wannabee RV-8 builder, I think one of these instruments could help
me a lot as a low
time pilot, and help insure that I survive long enough to become an
old-timer pilot.
I would like to see this thread develop and evolve to its natural
conclusion, wherever that
may be, rather than squelch it just as it's beginning to yield some
useful information.
Perhaps someone with a flying RV, an altruistic spirit, and money to
burn could perform
a scientific "fly-off" between the LRI and the AOA system. Better yet,
would the
manufacturers of either of these systems be willing to loan one for an
RV-specific flight
test that would include flaps up/flaps down comparisons? We represent a
potentially
sizable market for them. Would they be willing to put their money where
their mouth is?
George True
Phoenix, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
I bought a set of these and never got around to sending them back. I believe
they must be made for racing steamrollers as they are very heavy. I'll sell
them for $45 each.
Got some from Vans and they are very nice. I weighed both - RCI at 8 lbs and
Vans at 2lbs !! As I remember but....
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> Hello, I have read several threads about using the 5 Point Seatbelt system
> sold through Summit Racing and others. I would appreciate any information
> regarding any issues with the installation of the belts and what model was
> ordered.
>
> Note. I am referencing the following URL which had more part numbers and
> apparently lower prices for the RCI Belts sold through Summit Racing.
>
> http://www.madcap-racing.com/rci.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglassing Windshield-RV-8- long |
<< I am unclear about how to get a nice edge on the Plexiglas windshield
when fiberglassing it in place. If I use electricians tape to mask off
the exact line I want on the windshield, and use a 2" fiberglass tape and
epoxy, with the edge right up against the electricians tape, will that
give me a good edge? I have heard some talk about 'scoring with a knife
to get a crisp edge, but this sounds a little scary to me. What is the
proper technique here? Some have said they would just lay it up on the
windshield, then take it off and sand it and shape it, then attach it.
Others say heck with that, just make it out of metal. >>
Gadzooks- this is a large can of worms. I've done probably a dozen or more of
these jobs, and the cleanest was the last one where we laid up the fairing,
pulled it off, trimmed and sanded, and put the thing back on. Now, I had a
fellow from the resin dept. from Shell in Houston actually doing the job, and
I was assisting, more or less.
Ya want to know how we did it? Read on:
All this happens AFTER you get a good fit with the windshield and the
bubble...everything that gets painted is painted... everything that gets
riveted is riveted....in the canopy area, of course. The canopy is latched
shut during the lay-up process. I do not give any instructions here as to how
to use the resin and cloth, etc. I'm not that good of an instructor...
We shaped a small clay fillet at the base of the windshield plexi. Then, we
waxed the windshield, fuse area, slider bubble, and masked off any other areas
that might get the sticky goo on 'em. I'll tell ya- this stuff will stick to
air! Watch it so that the resin doesn't leak thru the gap between the slider
and the windshield, too.
We laid up the part, making it a good 1/2" bigger than it was to trim to. Let
this set up for 24 hrs at least @ 70F.
Now, this particular fairing was made with carbon fiber for structural
reasons- it gets very cold at 60,000'! Let's see....at 3 deg F lapse per
1,000', that's....uh...180 deg F colder than it is at the surface...Don't ask
about that- I'd have to kill you after I told you. However, I do recommend
using a layer or two of the carbon stuff at the top of the fairing, where
folks will grab to get in & out. This will add to the rigidity a great deal.
If you want to see this carbon fairing, look for Bohannon & crew at Sun-n-Fun.
But don't look for Pushy Galore- she's been replaced. But, I digress...
OK- it's a day later, and the part is set up, as far as you know. Drill a few
(5 or so on the -8, more on the -6) #40 holes around the base in the area
where the fairing will later attach to the fuse.These holes will help you when
you fit the fairing back to the a/c to check your fit, sanding, etc.
Start under one corner with a sharpened tongue depressor, and start to peel
the part loose. It should come off rather easily. Watch those edges- they are
like razor blades with needles sticking out of them. You can make an initial
trim with a set of tin snips- just watch so the the snips don't shatter the
glass too far from the edge- you will sand all the shattered part off anyway.
Sand, shape, and fill till you are happy with the product. If it's no good,
make another! It will be better than your first.
Fit the fairing to the a/c, holding it with clecoes thru the holes you drilled
before you removed the pc. Mask the windshield 1/16" from the edge of the
fairing, and also the entire remaining windshield for that extra protection.
This will give you the crisp edge you desire. You can form the glue the seeps
out into a slight fillet with a popsicle stick, making the job look that much
better. When the glue is still green, pull the tape up near the fairing. This
will also help with the edge you seek.
Remove or open the slider to keep it out of the way.
How to glue the thing on? Use the same resin you used to lay it up, except you
will rough up the plexi and aluminum ( use 60 grit or so) where you want the
fairing to stick. You will also add flox or milled fibers to the resin, to
make it a structural glue (NOT micro balloons). Use enough of the glue to fill
the area between the fairing and the fuse, and plexi. A fair amount should
actually ooze out. The fellow doing the fairing I mentioned before used carbon
black in his glue as a dye. It sure looked good from the inside- not needing
any paint to cover the 'glass. Cleco the thing in place, and make sure glue
oozes our along each edge. Swipe the edges with a popsicle stick to get a
clean edge. Clean up your mess, then....
Go have a beer- you earned it. This thing is going to fly very soon. More beer
after that!
This is sort of a reader's digest version, even tho it is fairly long winded.
Keep in mind where you DO want the resin, and where you DON'T want the resin.
Use release wax or some sort of masking to achieve that objective.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | RV List: Lightweight Tail Wheel |
I am posting for a friend of mine not on the list. Any ideas or
thoughts? I will forward them to Grant.
Thanks
Bob Busick
RV6
Fremont CA
>
> Do you know if anybody makes a light weight tailwheel for an RV. With my
> engine and prop, the plane is a little tail heavy (still well within cg
> limits at max gross though), and a lighter tailwheel way way in the back
> would probably improve things a bit. Thanks, g-
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Windshield-RV-8 |
> I am unclear about how to get a nice edge on the plexiglass windshield
>
I am doing this now for the rear skirts on the slider. I put down clear
packing tape and over that I put down good masking tape. I fiberglassed
to and a little over the masking tape. I carfully sand, with 40 to 60
grit paper, the excess fiberglass to the exact line on the masking
tape. If you are carefull you can get a real clean line and no damage
to the masking tape, packing tape or canopy. But, It takes a lot of
sanding and sanding.
When Gary Vanremortel told me about this I was more than a little
skeptical! But it works real well and you don't have to take the
fiberglass piece off and figure out how to get it back on again. His
plane won a best of show at EAA Arlington Fly In, so this technique does
produce excellent results.
Bob Busick
RV6
Fremont Ca
Fremont CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Does anyone have any experience with the Proprietery Software systems AOA guage?
If you have one, or know anything about them, I'd like to hear from you
regarding installation. I'm considering one for my RV-8, but I'm not sure how
much trouble I'm willing to go through as I have a quickbuild and do not have
very much access to the leading edge of the wings, where the static ports for
the installation are mounted.
Thanks in advance,
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
I suppose I'll see what is wrong with the way I am doing my glareshield before
the
plane is complete.
I cut the aluminum skin away completely back to about 3/4 inch from the panel.
Now I intend to apply a layer of something I would rather hit my head on such as
plastic or even cardboard to stick out two or three inches beyond the panel and
to go forward to the windshield. I will cover it with black cloth or maybe just
paint it flat black. Of course, I will include defroster outlets in it.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV List: Lightweight Tail Wheel |
Robert Busick wrote:
>
>
> I am posting for a friend of mine not on the list. Any ideas or
> thoughts? I will forward them to Grant.
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Busick
> RV6
> Fremont CA
> >
> > Do you know if anybody makes a light weight tailwheel for an RV. With my
> > engine and prop, the plane is a little tail heavy (still well within cg
> > limits at max gross though), and a lighter tailwheel way way in the back
> > would probably improve things a bit. Thanks, g-
> >
>
I don't know of a light weight tail wheel for an RV, and if you did
find one I don't think it would be a whole lot lighter.
You might consider one of the steel rings from Mark Landoll. If I
remember right it adds 12LBS to the ring gear. Thats about as far
forward as you can get, and it also gives the prop more mass to swing.
If you can't raise the bridge, lower the river.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
How 'bout them Seminoles, we kick some Gator butt!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
What is the part number of your Molex tool please?
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary?
>You might try Radio Shack,they have a reasonably priced crimper or Allied
>Electronics also sells one.
>
>
Mousser Electronics also has one that works well. I have this tool and am
surprised how often I use molex connectors. It wasn't expensive, around $10
or so.
Take a look at the MicroMonitor assembly manual, available on-line from
Rocky Mountain Instruments at:
http://rkymtn.com/rm02000.htm
There is a page on how to properly install molex connectors along with the
part numbers for the correct tool. Remember, ALWAYS use the right tool for
the right job, you will not be sorry.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | EF607 Cover Panels 6A |
I have installed the Wd617 canopy latch on my 6A tipup so that I can now
install the electric flaps. There was indeed a major interference problem
as the electric flap plans warn.
My question regards trimming the EF607 cover panels. The bottom flange is
straight, and it abuts the floor panels which have a bend (inflection) in
them. The bottom flange thus has a 3/16 to 1/4 gap at the bend if the ends
are touching the floor. I wonder how others have dealt with this? In the
plans pictures it appears as if Van's has cut off the forward part of the
flange at the bend, but it is hard to tell. Comments appreciated.
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy/flaps
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman(at)aol.com |
Listers,
First flight is imminent (tomorrow), and I have a nagging doubt about my carb
heat. I have the Vetterman cross over exhaust system on my O-320 powered RV-6
with a Robbins heat muff for the carb heat. It feeds to the FAB-O320 airbox
from Van's with the flapper door as shown on the plans with the airbox.
The problem is that I get little if any rpm drop when activating carb heat.
Anyone out there with the same set up and results? How about anyone with the
same setup and a carb intake temp gauge? Is there enough heat produced by this
system? Help, please!, and soon!
Gary Bray
RV-6
N827GB
Away we go!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan A. Gembusia" <Bryan(at)GGGConcepts.com> |
[Bryan A. Gembusia] Ok,
After hearing all of the talk about jamming rivet guns, and how
wonderful the Chicago pneumatic guns were, I went down to my local CP
retailer just to see how much the "real mcoy" costs. The 3X rivet gun was
$667 and the pneumatic squeezer was $1200. This of course is an insane
amount of money when you can get like quality tools from Avery and
Cleveland. My question is can anyone get us RV builders the CP guns at a
lower cost than retail??? Or, does anyone know of a refurbisher of CP
tools?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Bryan A. Gembusia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
Hal,
Why do you think you are going to hit your head on the glareshield.? Arent
you going to use a harness seat belt? I cut my glareshield as per the
plans, ie I think 2 inches back from the panel, and I thought that it wasnt
enough and am considering extending it out to about 4 inches to shade the
>
>I suppose I'll see what is wrong with the way I am doing my glareshield
before the
>plane is complete.
>
>I cut the aluminum skin away completely back to about 3/4 inch from the
panel.
>Now I intend to apply a layer of something I would rather hit my head on
such as
>plastic or even cardboard to stick out two or three inches beyond the
panel and
>to go forward to the windshield. I will cover it with black cloth or
maybe just
>paint it flat black. Of course, I will include defroster outlets in it.
>
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV List: Lightweight Tail Wheel |
In a message dated 11/24/98 6:01:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, craig-
RV4(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< How 'bout them Seminoles, we kick some Gator butt! >>
"how 'bout that wolfpack, we kicked some seminole butt!"
Hi Craig,
Our flyin is Sat a week, we have several guys coming from Ft Walton who came
last year. Are there any Tallahassee RV's I should invite?
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sorry about my post to list, possible we could get a change |
In a message dated 11/24/98 6:01:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, craig-
RV4(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< How 'bout them Seminoles, we kick some Gator butt! >>
I meant to only send this to Craig, it would be good if our reply post could
someway only go to the sender and we had to hit an extra key{s} to make it go
to the whole list.
Sorry,
Bernie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chester razer <razer(at)midwest.net> |
I have experienced exactly the same conditions with my carb heat. I
have the same set-up as you. To date I have had 0 problems with the set
up. Just go fly and dont worry about it
chet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arzflyer(at)aol.com |
Thank You for that statement. I couldn't have said, it better myself.
Condolence is in order at this time, nothing else. To the know-it-all
experts regarding this crash spare us your insensitive, ignorant remarks.
arzflyer, AL Malecha
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV List: Lightweight Tail Wheel |
Aircraft Spruce has a couple.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 4:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV List: Lightweight Tail Wheel
>
>I am posting for a friend of mine not on the list. Any ideas or
>thoughts? I will forward them to Grant.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bob Busick
>RV6
>Fremont CA
>>
>> Do you know if anybody makes a light weight tailwheel for an RV. With my
>> engine and prop, the plane is a little tail heavy (still well within cg
>> limits at max gross though), and a lighter tailwheel way way in the back
>> would probably improve things a bit. Thanks, g-
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
I believe the FAA requirement is 60 degrees over ambient.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rvbirdman(at)aol.com <Rvbirdman(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Heat
>
>Listers,
>First flight is imminent (tomorrow), and I have a nagging doubt about my
carb
>heat. I have the Vetterman cross over exhaust system on my O-320 powered
RV-6
>with a Robbins heat muff for the carb heat. It feeds to the FAB-O320 airbox
>from Van's with the flapper door as shown on the plans with the airbox.
>The problem is that I get little if any rpm drop when activating carb heat.
>Anyone out there with the same set up and results? How about anyone with
the
>same setup and a carb intake temp gauge? Is there enough heat produced by
this
>system? Help, please!, and soon!
>
>Gary Bray
>RV-6
>N827GB
>Away we go!!!!!!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>The problem is that I get little if any rpm drop when activating carb heat.
>Anyone out there with the same set up and results? How about anyone with the
>same setup and a carb intake temp gauge? Is there enough heat produced by
this
>system? Help, please!, and soon!
I have the same setup and I do have carb air temp. The carb temp rise with
application of carb heat is substantial.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
>What is the part number of your Molex tool please?
>
The tool is made by Waldom, with the following number stamped on it:
W-HT1921
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Hyde <hyde(at)bcl.net> |
>
>I'm looking for a good air compressor.
>
>Has any one heard of a company called Quincy?
>
>I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud.
>
>What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet?
>
Quincy compressors are made here in Quincy, Illinois, and are fine
heavy-duty machinery. The company now belongs to Coltech Industries, and is
no longer nice to its employees, but the compressors are still good. If you
can find one for $350, grab it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator |
>
>Perhaps someone with a flying RV, an altruistic spirit, and money to
>burn could perform
>a scientific "fly-off" between the LRI and the AOA system.
I am in the process of installing the AoA Pro by Proprietary Software
Systems to one of my aircraft (sorry, not the RV-4). I will report back
after it is installed and I have flown it some. I have flown with AoA on
other aircraft and I much prefer it to depending on the ASI. I want to see
if the AoA Pro is like the other systems I have flown.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
The FAR 23.1093 requirement is for a temperature rise of 90 deg F at
75% power for engines with conventional venturi carburetors. Engines
with fuel injection must have a sheltered alternate source of air
with a temperature rise of 60 deg F at 75% power.
The above was paraphrased slightly to simplify it. The actual text
is available at:
http://www3.landings.com/cgi-bin/get_file?pass=12031467&FAR/part_23/section_23.1
093.html
While there is no regulatory requirement for us to follow FAR 23,
each of these rules was written in the blood of accident victims.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> I believe the FAA requirement is 60 degrees over ambient.
>
>
> >
> >First flight is imminent (tomorrow), and I have a nagging doubt about my
> carb
> >heat. I have the Vetterman cross over exhaust system on my O-320 powered
> RV-6
> >with a Robbins heat muff for the carb heat. It feeds to the FAB-O320 airbox
> >from Van's with the flapper door as shown on the plans with the airbox.
> >The problem is that I get little if any rpm drop when activating carb heat.
> >Anyone out there with the same set up and results? How about anyone with
> the
> >same setup and a carb intake temp gauge? Is there enough heat produced by
> this
> >system? Help, please!, and soon!
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | GPS question, and rivet gun update |
This may seem like a silly question, so PLEASE...send any replies
directly to me..NOT to the list.
OK, I'm taking a business trip next week via scheduled airline, and
thought it would be a neat opportunity to fiddle around with my Lowrance
Airmap GPS while aloft. Now, is this legal? If so, will it be able to
achieve satellite lock with the antenna merely pointed at the passenger
window?
Allrighty then..enough silliness. My recent post regarding a finicky
rivet gun led me first try to clean it out with solvent, followed by a
fresh oiling. This didn't help..although a LOT of black residue was
washed out of it. So, I called Bob Avery, and in a truly professional
and customer-oriented manner, he immediately faxed me a handwritten
teardown procedure, along with exploded diagram of the rivet gun his
company sells. I tell ya, I'm an Avery Tool fan for LIFE. I'll keep the
list updated on how the rivet gun surgery goes..and if the patient
lives!
Adios,
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
engine hunt underway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
>I agree that a plenum is a lot of work, possibly another 500 hours of
>work to get the cooling system to work well and surrender those extra
>knots. But when a stock RV cruises at 180 MPH, trying to get another
>8-10 MPH is real tough.
>I don't know if Paser's modifications will make a difference on the
>stock RV, but my origninal comments were based upon many hours studing
>his book with my aerodynamic and fluid dymanics text books as well.
>Bob Busick
>RV-6
>Fremont CA
Hi Bob,
I don't know if the plenum would be that much more work than the
conventional system. I ordered Van's baffle kit and installed it per plans.
It took a lot of time to get a nice, even gap between the baffle and top
cowl. Then, you have to install the baffle material. ( I wish I would have
spent the $$$ for the silicon seal.) I had intended on doing a plenum on my
six but wimped out.
On "Gillette Charlie's" RV6A, we're going to do the plenum. I don't think
it will take much longer to fabricate. No real worries about clearance on
the cowl. I intend to cut down the material along the sides to a bare
minimum---enough material left to attach a light angle to which the top
cover will attach. Angles could be attached to the rear baffles in a
similar manner. I plan on bolting some mid-span supports on the case center
line. Another advantage to the cut down sides will hopefully be better
access to the top plugs. For the inlet, we'll have the top flex in this
area so there is a tight fit against the top cowl inlets and will protect
against chaffing with UHMW tape.
Warren Bishop (on the list) did a nice job on a plenum and has pictures
posted on someone's web site. Perhaps he, or others who have done this,
would give us some detailed information. Of course, the best info would
come from someone who has done both types of systems on a RV.
One nice thing about the plenum: even if no speed increase is gained, you
should have a very effecient cooling system, will never have to replace
baffle seals and won't have to worry about bulging of the top cowl due to
the pressures generated.
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
This is for Don Farrand, located in Los Altos, CA.
Don has the following for sale..
RV4 N144DF
Flying since 1993
500 hrs on a new Lycoming 0320 D1A from Van's
Narco 810 COm
Narco AT150 transponder w/emcoder
Trimble TNL 1000 panel mount GPS
KS Tetra II EGT/CHT monitor system
Warneke 70/74 Prop
Asking $35,000 or best offer
690-917-1295
dotndon(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv 4 for sale |
Don,
I put your ad on the RV list tonight and CC'd you.
Let me know if you need any more help with it
Ed Cole
Donald Farrand wrote:
>
>
> I have an rv4 I have been flying for 5 years and my rv6 is about ready
> for the faa inspection. Someone told me I might be able to advertise
> the "4" for sale at this address. Can someone tell me the possibilities
> and the process to do so if possible?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Don Farrand RV4 N 144DF
> dotndon(at)worldnet.att.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Empenage/Wing Jig |
>>OK, I'm finally getting to the important stuff. The magic distance to
shoot for
on the -8 wings is 109.75 to 111. If you get the arms spaced about 110.25,
you'll be a happy wing builder. <<
Vince,
I used 114" as the dimension between the inside surfaces of the jig uprights
and then made my horizontal supports out of 1.5" aluminum angle that I
bought at Home Depot. I then used some pieces of this same angle which I
bolted to the tip end of the wing. This spacing worked perfectly, but as
Russell indicates above it DOES depend on what you're using for your
horizontal material.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, fuselage
Vancouver, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPORT AERO <eloveday(at)ici.net> |
cable.net>
>
>
>[Bryan A. Gembusia] Ok,
>
My question is can anyone get us RV builders the CP guns at a
>lower cost than retail??? Or, does anyone know of a refurbisher of CP
>tools?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Bryan A. Gembusia
>
>
------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Bryan -
Try Jerry Williams at Action Air Parts in Port
Huron, MI. (810) 364-5885. Good overhauled tools,
many of them CP's, at good prices.
regards,
Ed Loveday
RV-6 20181
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Nielsen <nielsen(at)mindspring.com> |
>
> I have the Vetterman cross over exhaust system on my O-320 powered RV-6
>with a Robbins heat muff for the carb heat. It feeds to the FAB-O320 airbox
>from Van's with the flapper door as shown on the plans with the airbox.
>The problem is that I get little if any rpm drop when activating carb heat.
>Anyone out there with the same set up and results? How about anyone with the
>same setup and a carb intake temp gauge?
>
I have exactly the same setup on my RV-6 (O-320), but no carb temperature
guage. Typically I get 30 rpm drop with carb heat on run-up (1700 to 1750
rpm). The drop does vary with different atmospheric conditions.
In almost 300 hours, I had never had a need for carb heat until a couple of
weeks ago. I was westbound around the southern lakeshore of Lake Michigan
cruising at 2450 rpm, altitude 2000' under a 2800' ceiling. Just I was
entering the busy airspace (Gary & Meigs) when the ceiling and visibility
started dropping. I flew lower to try and get through the band of clouds.
About the same time that I decided that the visibility was below my comfort
level (even though I was still legal), I noticed that my RPMs had dropped to
2200. (With the radio work, the deteriorating weather, and the traffic,
things had gotten very busy in a hurry.) Additional throttle did not
increased the rpm. I made my 180 degree turn and added carb heat at the
same time. It took about 20 to 30 seconds before the rpms returned to
normal. I assume that my carburator had pretty good load of ice. Before
this experience, I had wondered if the Robbins muff was really necessary. I
am a true believer now.
By the way, I got home without further problems. I got around the low
clouds by taking the long way -- south of Gary and west of Chicago instead
of my planned route along the lakeshore.
Mark Nielsen
Green Bay, WI
RV-6, 298 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Footwell Plans |
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven B. Janicki <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 1:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV4 Footwell Plans
>
>>
>
Referencing the thread from the archives does anyone have a copy of the
>article they could fax/email/send me? Any assistance greatly appreciated.
>
Steve,
While I don't have a copy of the article (lost in the great flood of '98
here in South Texas), I did construct my footwells using them as a starting
point. They are greatly appreciated by passengers and when flying solo are
nice storage compartments for things that you don't want sliding around.
However, when you get a copy be sure to check dimensions because there is no
way they would work as shown due to interference with aileron push tubes. I
have some sketches of the design I finally settled on which I could send you
if you need them. Would have to be by regular mail since I have no computer
skills beyond what I am doing right now.
Ivan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
I bought a Taylor 2x gun from Avery and find that it works great. A friend
in the area who has been working on airplanes for over 50 years and has the
FAA Master Mechanic award to prove it also uses the Taylor gun and syas it's
worked fine for him. My 2x came to about $145.00. I use a Craftsman
upright tank compressor and an inline filter.
Doug Hormann
-----Original Message-----
From: SPORT AERO <eloveday(at)ici.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 9:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: tools
>
>>
>>
>>[Bryan A. Gembusia] Ok,
>>
> My question is can anyone get us RV builders the CP guns at a
>>lower cost than retail??? Or, does anyone know of a refurbisher of CP
>>tools?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Bryan A. Gembusia
>>
>>
>------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Bryan -
>
> Try Jerry Williams at Action Air Parts in Port
> Huron, MI. (810) 364-5885. Good overhauled tools,
> many of them CP's, at good prices.
>
> regards,
> Ed Loveday
> RV-6 20181
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: prop bolt torque/landoll balancer |
>
>G'Day to all,
>I am in the process of doing an annual on RV4 and the A&P requires the
>prop
>bolt torque for the Aymar-Demuth prop, and if any service/check is
>necessary
>on the Landoll prop balancer. Could find nothing in the archives, and
>neither company has E-mail or fax. Hope y'all can help.
>Regards,
>Ken Glover RV4- VH-MKW
>Newcastle Australia
>
>
RV's using a fixed pitch wood prop. typically use standard AN bolts in
3/8 " , 7/16" , or sometimes 1/2" diameters.
The proper torque value is to use the proper torque for that AN bolt
size.
3/8" prop. bolts would have approx. 18 ft Lbs, etc.
The only thing I could imagine the balancer could possibly require would
be to check the torque of the attach bolts.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Finding Location below Platenut |
>> I would like to rivet the platenuts into the floor ribs
>flanges
>> prior to riveting the ribs to the bulkheads F-604 and F605. But if
>I do
>> this, how do I find the exact locations to drill holes in F-639/-640
>(the
>> plates which cover the upper part of the foor ribs).
>> Thanks for any and all suggestions.
>>
>>
>> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage||
>>
>
>Lother - try using a hole finder. You can make one using two strips of
>aluminum
>riveted together at one end.
It's true you can make your own hole finders, but I wouldn't recommend
you preinstall the plate nuts for the seat pan skins.
It would require a hole finder almost 24 inches long which you would have
trouble using accurately.
The biggest problem though is that the seat/floor ribs do not have
continuous flanges so the don't stay straight/aligned on there own. You
are better laying out the holes in the proper places on the skins and
then looking through the holes for center lines on the seat ribs.
If you went the hole finder route you would likely have seat ribs not in
the proper positions because you wouldn't be able to tell if the are
where they should be when covered up by the seat pan skin.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Windshield-RV-8 |
WARNING - WARNING - very long post follows. Please delete if fiberglass
windshield/fuselage interface is of no interest.
-
>Listers; I am unclear about how to get a nice edge on the plexiglass
>windshield when fiberglassing it in place. If I use electricians tape
>to mask off the exact line I want on the windshield, and use a 2"
>fiberglass tape and epoxy, with the edge right up against the
>electricians tape, will that give me a good edge?
-
I have always liked the way that nicely built Glasairs have their
windshields and windows fitted so I have done it in a way that gives a
similar look even though it is on a metal airplane.
It results in a molded in place fiberglass/epoxy that blends from the
metal into the plexi. without any discernable lines of where the metal
stops and the glass starts, and the termination of the fiberglass on the
plexi is nothing more than a paint line from the finish paint job.
The technique was used on the yellow RV-8 and RV-8A prototypes, and I
have done it on a couple of RV-6A's with sliding canopys also
First off... if this is something you would like to do, 2" fiberglass
tape will not work.
Imagine (or draw on a sheet of paper) a cross section view of the fwd
base of the windshield to the top deck of the fuselage. It will be an
inside radius. Cut out about a 4 " diam circle in poster board or
similar and hold on edge at the base of the windshield. Where the circle
touches the windshield and the skin is about where the fiberglass will
end on each. Also notice that the space formed by the circle that you
want to fill with fiber glass is not the same thickness acrossed the
whole section. This is why you can't use cloth all one width (unless you
want to do more sanding than any metal airplane builder should have to
do).
A couple of general tips -
The closer you get to your finished shape, and the more accurately you
lay up the glass/resin, the less finish work that will be involved.
All of the areas that you will have to sand - make sanding tools in the
exact shape/radius that you want the fiberglass to be in. Example:
All around the forward base of the windshield find some type of round
tube that you can glue different grits of sandpaper too that has the
radius you want the finished shape to be. I use about a 2 inch radius
and I glue sandpaper with spray contract adhesive.
Before doing any glass layups you need to do some prep work.
First figure out where the edges of your finished glass work will be on
the plexi (you can use your round circle radius gage to find the contact
points around the front of the windshield, and bring it around the sides
to match up with the top of the canopy side skirts. I usually match the
portion that goes over the top, to the front edge of the roll bar.
Mark these edges with good quality (3M) electrical tape to protect the
plexi. Now carefully sand all of the plexi that you intend to bond to
using 60 to 80 grit sandpaper. Sand until there is no gloss of the plexi
remaining. Now mix up some resin with microballons to make a small
fillet to fill the recess where the windshield mates to the fuselage.
Mix it very dry (lots of micro balloons / not much resin) so it will not
run.
This fillet will prevent the cloth from dropping down into this space.
Now cut the cloth strips. On the portion around the front I start with
about a 1/2 " wide strip and then make each successive strip about 1/4 "
wider (1/8 " to each side) which will give you about 7 or 8 layers if you
go up to 2 inches. The last layer you put down should be the same width
as what the approx. finished fairing width will be.
A rotary cloth cutter (available from cloth stores, or get in touch with
your friendly local composite airplane builder) and a long straight edge
works great for cutting long skinny strips. The more accurate you are
cutting (and installing) the strips, the less finish work that will be
needed.
Now add another layer of tape to the first one already applied and start
laying up the layers.
I have gotten to be a big fan of the West Systems epoxy but most any that
are available could be used.
Center the first (1/2 inch) strip around the base of the windshield at
what will be the center of the fairing. Put on each successive layer
centered on the previous ones with the final layer butted up next to the
tape but not over lapping onto it.
Let this begin to set up slightly and then do the portion over the top
for the canopy to windshield intersection using a similar procedure
(though this portion will have an outside radius, and typically have
fewer layers with the layers differing in width by about 1/2 " instead of
1/4 " since it is a much bigger radius). You of course need to take the
proper steps to have the layup release from the canopy, etc.
Once everything hardens for a day or so it is time to start "carefully"
sanding. Use the shape tools mentioned previously and start with about
40 to 50 grit paper to get you quickly to the general shape but being
careful to not get into the tape. When you get down near the tape switch
to about 80 to 100 grit paper and work very carefully until you are just
contacting the tape and the skin metal on the edges of the layup (if you
sand through the first layer of tape the second one should protect the
plexi if you are watching carefully).
Now remove the second layer of tape (leaving just one layer) and sand
very, very, very carefully using about 150 grit until you just start to
see sanding marks in the tape.
Brush on a heavy coat of resin (after getting rid of all sanding dust)
overlapping the resin onto the tape and the metal at the edges, and let
harden.
More sanding with 100 and then 150 grit paper.
If you have areas that need filling you can fill them now by scuffing
with 40 or 50 grit paper and filling with a dry mix of resin and
microballoons.
The goal is to have a layup with the outer surface being a buildup of 2
or 3 coats of resin that has been finish sanded to final shape with the
resin blending onto the plexi being the thickness of the electrical tape
or less, and the resin on the metal skin blending out to nothing.
The final blending into the metal may require a couple of wet sanded
applications of a filler primer to blend it out entirely.
I couldn't cover every single detail in this amount of space (it has
gotten way to long already), but I hope the major idea will be helpful to
someone.
If you do it properly it will give you a very nice looking low drag
intersection, and it will make all the " Fast Glass" builders wonder how
a rivet pounder could get a windshield / canopy finish that looks so
good.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
Bryan, I got one of my CP rivet guns from Action Air as I have mentioned
before and other posters as well, the other came from a place called the Yard
in Witcita KS. The one from Action Air was rebuilt and is a superb weapon--I
picked it out from his table at Oshkosh back several years ago. The one I got
at the Yard was surplus and is rough looking on the surface but has a hammer
of gold and a really good trigger--it will clean up nicely. The gun I often
use and have mentioned here before I think is a CP clone from Sid Golden. It
is the best clone I have seen and is 98% as good as the CP. The guns from
Action Air are decently priced--I do not remember --maybe 125$ or so--could
have been a bit more. I would bet you would be satisfied with a gun from
Cleveland or Avery or Brown. By the way I like Siuox drills but not as much
their rivet guns. Goodluck to you--a good tool will serve you well on those
long winter nights. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator |
This is a longish post involving some math. Delete now if you find it
tiresome already.
> I can understand that the LRI/AOA thread may be getting tiresome to
> some. But to me it is getting more interesting all the time.
I was going to keep quiet on this but George's comment encourages me
to say why I believe the LRI suffers much the same problems as an ASI
and may lull into a false sense of security those who use it as an
AOA. I would welcome correction by those with more fluid dynamics,
aerodynamics and math ability than me.
As I understand it, the LRI has two pitot style ports at different
angles to the airstream. It measures differential ram air pressure
and displays it on a gauge. The bottom line is that such a setup will
indicate zero lift margin (ie a stall) at different positions on the
panel indicator depending on aircraft weight.
For a normal pitot,
Ram air pressure = (d . V*2)/2
where d = air density
v = airspeed
If the ports are inclined to the airstream at angles a and b
respectively for ports 1 and 2, then
Port 1 pressure p1 =( d . (Vcos a)*2)/2
Port 2 pressure p2 = (d . (Vcos b)*2)/2
The differential pressure which is indicated is
p1 - p2 = (d.V*2((cos a)*2 - (cos b)*2)/2
If we consider only the stall condition, this will always happen at
the same angle of attack, regardless of weight. Therfore a and b are
constant at the stall for all aircraft weights, as of course is air
density d. Therefore differential pressure at the stall is a
function of only velocity squared.
However the velocity at stall is a function of G loading or weight,
whichever you prefer. Therefore the differential pressure at stall
is a function of weight, which means that "zero lift reserve" will
shift on the dial depending on fuel, pax and baggage.
How significant is the shift? Single pilot stall is typically around
45 mph, and gross weight stall 55 mph, a 22% increase. Because of the
square law relationship, the indication at stall will increase by
10.5% over the same weight range.
If you always dogfight at the same weight, the LRI will do what you
want, but if you then load up the wife and baggage and fly
into short strips, take care.
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
Has anyone out there installed a VOR antenna on the top of the vertical
stabilizer, as is done on many factory planes? I checked the archives, and
there's lots of talk about putting a strobe up there, but it seems that
most people don't have anything on their VS. I'm wondering if its
worthwhile at this stage to install wiring harnesses in the VS before
closing it. Also, if anyone recommends I do so, how is this done? Do I
just drill some holes in the ribs and install some grommets, or is there
something else I need to know, such as a means to anchor any wires. Any
help would be appreciated.
P.S. Thanks for the note, Jim, what did you do on this?
Peter Christensen
RV-6A Vertical Stabilizer
Marietta, Georgia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Gary,
I have that same setup on N925RV and have had no problems with it. I
put a temp probe into the airbox and measured the inlet air temps to see
what I could get for an increase above the ambient under different test
conditions. If memory serves me correct, on the ground there was a
greater than
20* C rise in inlets temps when I puled carb heat. In the air, under
cruse conditions, it was less (due to the volume of air..) but still
sufficient. I think that it was in the order of 10-15*C rise. In any
case, I've not had any problems with carb ice with the carb heat
applied, even in the clouds at near freezing conditions (IFR)....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rvbirdman(at)aol.com [SMTP:Rvbirdman(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 7:18 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Heat
>
>
> Listers,
> First flight is imminent (tomorrow), and I have a nagging doubt about
> my carb
> heat. I have the Vetterman cross over exhaust system on my O-320
> powered RV-6
> with a Robbins heat muff for the carb heat. It feeds to the FAB-O320
> airbox
> from Van's with the flapper door as shown on the plans with the
> airbox.
> The problem is that I get little if any rpm drop when activating carb
> heat.
> Anyone out there with the same set up and results? How about anyone
> with the
> same setup and a carb intake temp gauge? Is there enough heat produced
> by this
> system? Help, please!, and soon!
>
> Gary Bray
> RV-6
> N827GB
> Away we go!!!!!!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: book "speed with economy" |
BOB MY RV4 228 MPH SUN 100 RUNS VANS STOCK TO PLANS COOLING SYSTEM ONLY
CHANGE WAS THE EXIT RAMP
TOM RV4 BOUNTY HUNTER
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles(at)onramp.net (charles young) |
I have a small Radio Shack, two probe, digital thermometer installed, with
one probe inserted in the NACA duct,reading outside air temp and the other
probe inserted into the air filter area. You can see a definite change in
temperature with heat is applied from the Vetterman/Vans's exhaust/heat
muff arrangement.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
Charles, do you recall the model of your Thermometer?? I have been
looking for something similar.
Ed Anderson
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
charles young wrote:
>
>
> I have a small Radio Shack, two probe, digital thermometer installed, with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
Not to start something rash here - on my kit car I soldered my molex
pins with no problems in use after 15+ years.
No genius here, but if there is a reason to crimp them I'm willing
to learn.
Thanks
Ralph Capen
RV6A Emp Dallas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
>>I'm looking for a good air compressor.
>>
>>Has any one heard of a company called Quincy?
>>
>>I've used the $250 craftsman, but it's just too loud.
>>
>>What can I get for around $350 that is quality and quiet?
>>
This has been covered in the past and is in the archives. There are two
main styles of compressors that are applicable to building an RV. The ones
that Sears currently sells are oil less and look as if the motor and
compressor portion are one piece. IMHO, you do not want this style as their
life expectancy are shorter and they are LOUD. The preferred style have a
cast iron compressor pump that is belt driven by an electric motor and
requires periodic oil changes. The old style Sears were this way. I
believe that Home Depot and Harbor Freight still sell the cast iron
variety. They do cost about $100 more but, IMHO, they are well worth it.
I used the cast iron style for my project and thought it sounded loud. I
had nothing to compare it to. I'm currently help my brother with his -6 on
occasion. When his compressor kicks on (new style Sears), I'm eternally
grateful for the cast iron compressor that I used. His is LOUD, very, very
LOUD. Now whenever I use mine, I hardly notice it.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV - Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Finding Location below Platenut |
Lother,
It is not difficult to install the nut plates after you have the
fuselage out of the jig. However, I did back drill the seat pans to the
seat ribs just before skinning the fuselage. Just pilot drill the seat
ribs, clamp the seat pans to the ribs, then back drill #30 through the
pilot holes. It worked very well and I would do it the same way again.
This eliminates the difficulty of hitting the rib when drilling blind
through the seat pan.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, fuselage turtle deck
Columbia, SC
>> I would like to rivet the platenuts into the
floor ribs
>flanges
>> prior to riveting the ribs to the bulkheads F-604 and
F605. But if
>I do
>> this, how do I find the exact locations to drill
holes in F-639/-640
>(the
>> plates which cover the upper part of the foor ribs).
>> Thanks for any and all suggestions.
>>
>>
>> Lothar ||-6A|| Denver, CO ||jigging fuselage||
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
> I suppose I'll see what is wrong with the way I am doing my glareshield before
the
> plane is complete.
>
> I cut the aluminum skin away completely back to about 3/4 inch from the panel.
> Now I intend to apply a layer of something I would rather hit my head on such
as
> plastic or even cardboard to stick out two or three inches beyond the panel and
> to go forward to the windshield. I will cover it with black cloth or maybe just
> paint it flat black. Of course, I will include defroster outlets in it.
>
> Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
> halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
> Soiunds like a good idea to me. You might want to include the recently suggested
> idea of using aluminum tubing. (fuel line size) to add to the ledge. Your idea
> would seem better suited for slider but there may be a down side for the tip
up as
> it has to travel more. One more thing. People always want to grab the glare
> shield to get in and out. If you make it too frangible you may have to replace
it
> often. Don't ask me why they do this. It is the same folks who step on the
> flaps. Ugh. Just spent an hour or so trying to unbent the walk area doubler
which
> got bent down and jammed against the flap.
I used a spray can of flat black paint and it works marvelous. Looks not quite
as
awesome as fabric or other finishes but it flat disappears from teh windwhield
reflections. I love it. Easy to patch when it gets scratched. You guessed it
teh
same folks who step on the flaps and grab the glare shield put sharp objects up
their
too!
D L Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Bill Knight Crash |
For those following this accident, there's an article on page 5 of USA
Today possibly linking the use of Viagra to the accident. This is the first
time the Fed's have investigated the drugs affect related to a fatal
airplane crash. It states that Viagra has been linked to heart problems and
can blur vision. One study reports some patients seeing a bluish haze while
others taking higher than recommended doses had trouble telling the
difference between blue and green.
For those wanting more details, read the article.
Interesting note: The article states that Bill was a friend of Oliver Stone
and appeared in "Wall Street", "Born on the Forth of July", and "The Doors".
The RV community, as well as all those who knew him will miss him terribly
I'm sure.
Dave H.
Nashville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
> The FAR 23.1093 requirement is for a temperature rise of 90 deg F at
> 75% power for engines with conventional venturi carburetors. Engines
> with fuel injection must have a sheltered alternate source of air
> with a temperature rise of 60 deg F at 75% power.
>While there is no regulatory requirement for us to follow FAR 23,
>each of these rules was written in the blood of accident victims.
Great post Kevin. Does anyone know if the requirements for fuel injected
engines as paraphrased above are: 1) to allow for inlet/inlet filter icing,
and 2) is a 60 deg. F rise typical of air that passes through the cylinder
cooling fins at 75%? I have heard that port fuel injection does not need a
heat muff for alternate air, but this makes me think twice.
I have an Airflow FI system.
We need to respect the FAR's, even if we are not required to meet them.
Thanks,
Alex P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Peter,
I have my VOR antenna in this location and also use it for the LOC
and GS (with a splitter). Works well for all functions.
My VOR antenna bas looks like a hockey puck with two holes in it for
mounting. I installed a simple inverted "U" bracket into the top of the
vertical stab that allowed the antenna base to be flush with the skin
edges. The "Hockey Puck" does protrude slightly over the edge of the
skins and I did need to modify the vertical stab top fairing. So that I
could service the antenna, the fin fairing is screwed in place with #8
screws and nutplates.
This all can be done anytime after the vertical stab is closed up,
but remember to drill the cable holes and install plastic bushings in
the vertical stab ribs (3) prior to closing. Also installing a pull
string makes the job easier later on.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Christensen
> [SMTP:peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 1998 7:37 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: VOR Antennas
>
>
>
> Has anyone out there installed a VOR antenna on the top of the
> vertical
> stabilizer, as is done on many factory planes? I checked the
> archives, and
> there's lots of talk about putting a strobe up there, but it seems
> that
> most people don't have anything on their VS. I'm wondering if its
> worthwhile at this stage to install wiring harnesses in the VS before
> closing it. Also, if anyone recommends I do so, how is this done? Do
> I
> just drill some holes in the ribs and install some grommets, or is
> there
> something else I need to know, such as a means to anchor any wires.
> Any
> help would be appreciated.
>
> P.S. Thanks for the note, Jim, what did you do on this?
>
> Peter Christensen
> RV-6A Vertical Stabilizer
> Marietta, Georgia
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
Bryan,
Just received my CP 214 rivet squeezer in the mail from
Action Air Parts. The case is old and beat up a little. Of course it,s
been rebuilt. It operates perfectly. I ordered the squeezer and a
longeron head and he threw in a set of quick disconnect pins.
The tab including shipping UPS was $330.00. The other one I've used has a
swivel at the air port. This CP does not. This CP has a button on the
side that fully retracts the drive shaft. The other one does not.
HTH Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
>
>>[Bryan A. Gembusia] Ok,
My question is can anyone get us RV builders the CP guns at a
lower cost than retail??? Or, does anyone know of a refurbisher of
CP tools?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Bryan A. Gembusi
Bryan -
Try Jerry Williams at Action Air Parts in Port
Huron, MI. (810) 364-5885. Good overhauled tools,
many of them CP's, at good prices.
regards,
Ed Loveday
RV-6 20181
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
>
>
> Not to start something rash here - on my kit car I soldered my molex
> pins with no problems in use after 15+ years.
>
> No genius here, but if there is a reason to crimp them I'm willing
> to learn.
Ralph,
... I have done this too (RST avionics come to mind). IMHO
it's OK
if you still use the 'outer' tabs on the molex 'pins' to grip the
insulation of
the wire after soldering - needle nose pliers do work, but are fiddly.
One trouble is that some builders don't do this, (they solder the
wire down the entire length of the pin) and then there are definite stress
points at the end of the soldered part of the joint. Any flexing (even just
from the movements involved in installation) can weaken the wire. I'm not
sure
that shrink tube would work here since the wire/pin has to fit inside the
nylon
block. As with all soldered joints, good support of the wire at the end of
the
solder is required to prevent future problems. RTV potting of the back of the
nylon block would be one potential solution, but this makes rework almost
impossible.
I'm thinking of writing some articles for Sport Aviation on this
and similar subjects for next year (a "how-to" on actual wiring). Anyone have
any specifics they would like covered? This is _not_ to replace Bob N's
AeroElectric Connection, but to cover exact "how-to's" only.
...Gil (the author?) Alexander
>
> Thanks
> Ralph Capen
> RV6A Emp Dallas
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: att: JOHN WHEELER |
sorry about using the bandwith guys, i need to reply to JOHN WHEELER in
scotland to fax a copy of the hartzel prop restrictions, but i can't seem to
be able to fax across the pond, if anyone knows his snail mail address please
e-mail me off list, thanks
scott
left winging it in tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <scottg(at)icsnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
>Not to start something rash here - on my kit car I soldered my molex
>pins with no problems in use after 15+ years.
>
>No genius here, but if there is a reason to crimp them I'm willing
>to learn.
>
My understanding is that crimped connections are less likely to break as a
result of vibration.
Scott Gesele N506RV Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
----------
> From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 Crash
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 8:33 AM
>
>
> I'll bet your find sex "tiresome", also!!!
( SEX ) what's that (not grinning)
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am happy to announce the sucessful first flight of RV-6 N827GB this morning
at 7:50 AM. It was clear, 30 degrees and a light wind out of the northwest.
All went well, gauges in the green and a smooth running 150 hp O-320 out front
spinning a Sensenich metal prop. 7/10 of an hour and three landings later it
was over. What a thrill it was. Better than when I first learned to fly. The
plane was so smooth on the controls and the visability was fantastic. There is
a heavy right wing and it needs a tad of rudder trim, but other than that it
was a great flight. Saw 170 mph indicated at 2400 rpm, and over the numbers at
80 mph made for a good landing. Won't need quite that speed when things get
familiar.
Many thanks to those of you that responded to my post last evening about carb
heat. This list is a great asset to the RV community, I'm glad to have found
it, even though I was done building when I did. Keep working, you are going to
like this airplane somewhat :-) !!!!!
Gary Bray
RV-6
N827GB
"Joe's Spirit"
.7 hours and WOW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas |
Peter Christensen wrote:
> Has anyone out there installed a VOR antenna on the top of the vertical
> stabilizer, as is done on many factory planes? I checked the archives, and
> there's lots of talk about putting a strobe up there, but it seems that
> most people don't have anything on their VS.
Peter,
There are many other arrangements that might be worth considering. My own choice
was to combine
my strobes and position lights in the wingtips and install the VOR/GS antenna underneath
the aft
fuselage where it's protected on the ground by the horizontal stabilizer. This
arrangement also
minimizes the possibility of someone walking into the antenna. Moreover, the tip
of the VS can
be finished more elegantly, perhaps, because you won't have to be able to remove
it. It might be
a good idea to keep as much electrical wiring and cables out of the empennage as
you can. Just a
thought, FWIW.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Left hand throttle quaudrant |
For what it's worth, I've found that, for me, right-stick-left-throttle is
comfortable, and left-yoke-right-throttle is also comfortable. What's
awkward, for me, is either left-stick-right-throttle or right-yoke-left-
throttle. The ergonomics of yoke and stick are quite different, for me.
(I learned on left-yoke-right-throttle (30 hours), but by far most of my
hours are right-stick-left-throttle.)
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Flaherty" <jflaher(at)uswest.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator |
pbennett(at)zip.com.au wrote:
> I was going to keep quiet on this but George's comment encourages me
> to say why I believe the LRI suffers much the same problems as an ASI
> and may lull into a false sense of security those who use it as an
> AOA. I would welcome correction by those with more fluid dynamics,
> aerodynamics and math ability than me.
>
I'm not going to profess to be any of the above, but would like to throw in
another view.
First, I believe that an AOA device measures differential pressure. Actually,
differential pressure normalized to the average pressure across the top and
bottom. I envision a vane sticking out into an airstream, seeking equilibrium
between the pressure on the top and the pressure on the bottom. If I put the
vane so that the axle goes through a wall in a wind tunnel I can prove that as
the air velocity increases, it will get harder for me to hold the vane in a 10
degree down position. Or, in other words, the pressure that acts on the vane
increases with air velocity but the point of equilibrium stays the same.
Ok, the LRI system. I should be able to take the differential of the two pitots
and normalize this to the average pressure between the two and end up with a
device that measures about the same thing.
There are some differences of course. Take the case where the plane is sitting
still. The vane will be hanging there if it isn't balanced or indicating a high
AOA if it is balanced and you'll know you can't fly. The LRI would pick a
position (I dare not say AOA) half way between the two. It would need "Hey, we
aren't moving fast enough to fly!" logic built into the average pressure part of
the circuit.
I'm not saying that the AOA and the LRI do the same thing. I'm not advocating
that people not test. I have never flown with any AOA indicator. I am not an
aeronautical engineer. I do not play a doctor on TV.
I'm a software guy, and think "Hey, I could code this thing...".
I think the differences based on wing configuration are a more important issue.
How do AOA indicators manage this? With something to measure the position of
flaps I think I could "code" an LRI type device to be more accurate if we are
talking about a difference that matters.
John Flaherty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is a Molex (Big Bucks) Crimping Tool Necessary? |
>>Not to start something rash here - on my kit car I soldered my molex
>>pins with no problems in use after 15+ years.
>>
>>No genius here, but if there is a reason to crimp them I'm willing
>>to learn.
>>
>
>My understanding is that crimped connections are less likely to break as a
>result of vibration.
Not really . . . insulation support behind the electrical connection
is equally important to crimped -and- soldered connections. If you
solder a Molex sheetmetal pin, you still need to carefully close the
second set of "wings" around the insulation or the joint will have
no better integrity as the crimped joint.
Crimping was developed as a means of delivering uniform results for
thousands of successive terminations without the use of hazardous
(hot) expendable matrials (solder) requiring more experience to
apply with equal integrity. Either technique is quite good, they're
just different in their requirements for equal results . . .
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
<http://www.aeroelectric.com>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas |
>
>Has anyone out there installed a VOR antenna on the top of the vertical
>stabilizer, as is done on many factory planes?
I am sure you can but mine is down on the underside of the fuse just about
under the leading edge of the HS.
I had the VOR antenna at the top of the VS in my clipper with the
"whiskers" pointing forward (standard V-type VOR antenna mounting). One
night (it was dark on the ramp) while reaching down to grab the handle to
lift the tail I managed to run one of the antennas into my eye (thank god
for that little ball or I wouldn't have a right eye now). That is unlikely
to happen with the VOR/LOC antenna mounted on the underside.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
> ( SEX ) what's that (not grinning)
About 15 years ago I was flying along with three of my friends in the
Comanche. One person laughingly spoke the words we have often heard, "you
know, there is only one thing better than flying." One of the others,
slightly older than the rest of us said, "no, flying is the most fun you
can have, period. And that is *INCLUDING* sex."
There was silence for about 15 seconds as we digested this bit of heresy
before the speaker continued, "Yes, it sure is. No matter how hard I try,
I can't make sex last longer than about 30 minutes and then I fall asleep.
On the other hand, I can fly all day and still be wired when I finally
quit." We laughed politely at the time but I have come to realize ...
he was absolutely right.
And don't get me wrong, I *REALLY* like sex. :
)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | top speed (was: book "speed with economy") |
I finally got around to doing a speed run on my RV-4. I was flying wing on
a Beech Baron and he kept increasing power trying to see where he would
drop me. He was finally able to pull away at 75% power but by that time I
was indicating 170 kts (verified with his ASI in the Baron). That was at
4000 ft and +10 C for a TAS of 183 kts (211 mph for those of you who don't
fly airplanes :
). This is a stock RV-4 (it does have wing root fairings)
with a fresh, strong O-320-D2J and a wood prop.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding Location below Platenut |
> It's true you can make your own hole finders, but I wouldn't recommend
> you preinstall the plate nuts for the seat pan skins.
>
> It would require a hole finder almost 24 inches long which you would have
> trouble using accurately.
>
> The biggest problem though is that the seat/floor ribs do not have
> continuous flanges so the don't stay straight/aligned on there own. You
> are better laying out the holes in the proper places on the skins and
> then looking through the holes for center lines on the seat ribs.
> If you went the hole finder route you would likely have seat ribs not in
> the proper positions because you wouldn't be able to tell if the are
> where they should be when covered up by the seat pan skin.
I agree with Scott. I used lots of duct tape to force the ribs to the
correct spacing distance prior to laying the floor skins on them.
Additionally, if you plan on installing electric flaps, carefully study the
plans prior to drilling anything to the center ribs.
Alex P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lift Reserve Indicator |
Peter,
The LRI compensates automatically for weight because part of what the
"pitots" are measuring is the pressure under the wing due to the current
weight of the aircraft on that air mass. The heavier the plane the greater
the pressure. It is an automatic compensation by the instrument. You are
just considering the "ram" effect of the air into the tube like the pitot
and not the pressure actually generated by the flying wing into the tubes
because of their placement in the probe. AL
>
>This is a longish post involving some math. Delete now if you find it
>tiresome already.
>
>> I can understand that the LRI/AOA thread may be getting tiresome to
>> some. But to me it is getting more interesting all the time.
>
>I was going to keep quiet on this but George's comment encourages me
>to say why I believe the LRI suffers much the same problems as an ASI
>and may lull into a false sense of security those who use it as an
>AOA. I would welcome correction by those with more fluid dynamics,
>aerodynamics and math ability than me.
>
>As I understand it, the LRI has two pitot style ports at different
>angles to the airstream. It measures differential ram air pressure
>and displays it on a gauge. The bottom line is that such a setup will
>indicate zero lift margin (ie a stall) at different positions on the
>panel indicator depending on aircraft weight.
>
>For a normal pitot,
>Ram air pressure = (d . V*2)/2
>where d = air density
> v = airspeed
>
>If the ports are inclined to the airstream at angles a and b
>respectively for ports 1 and 2, then
>
>Port 1 pressure p1 =( d . (Vcos a)*2)/2
>Port 2 pressure p2 = (d . (Vcos b)*2)/2
>
>The differential pressure which is indicated is
>
> p1 - p2 = (d.V*2((cos a)*2 - (cos b)*2)/2
>
>If we consider only the stall condition, this will always happen at
>the same angle of attack, regardless of weight. Therfore a and b are
>constant at the stall for all aircraft weights, as of course is air
>density d. Therefore differential pressure at the stall is a
>function of only velocity squared.
>
>However the velocity at stall is a function of G loading or weight,
>whichever you prefer. Therefore the differential pressure at stall
>is a function of weight, which means that "zero lift reserve" will
>shift on the dial depending on fuel, pax and baggage.
>
>How significant is the shift? Single pilot stall is typically around
>45 mph, and gross weight stall 55 mph, a 22% increase. Because of the
>square law relationship, the indication at stall will increase by
>10.5% over the same weight range.
>
>If you always dogfight at the same weight, the LRI will do what you
>want, but if you then load up the wife and baggage and fly
>into short strips, take care.
>
>Peter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: VOR Antennas |
>
>Has anyone out there installed a VOR antenna on the top of the vertical
>stabilizer, as is done on many factory planes? I checked the archives, and
>there's lots of talk about putting a strobe up there, but it seems that
>most people don't have anything on their VS. I'm wondering if its
>worthwhile at this stage to install wiring harnesses in the VS before
>closing it. Also, if anyone recommends I do so, how is this done? Do I
>just drill some holes in the ribs and install some grommets, or is there
>something else I need to know, such as a means to anchor any wires. Any
>help would be appreciated.
>
>P.S. Thanks for the note, Jim, what did you do on this?
>
>Peter Christensen
Peter,
I have a VOR antenna on my vertical stab which I then diplex for G/S
information as well. The one I used is a black hockey puck of epoxy with
two posterior facing white whiskers that screw in. I fitted it after
completing my VS. You need to make the top fibreglass section removeable
(plate nuts). I fitted the hockey puck using rivnuts. If you had your
antenna now you could fit platenuts but it is not necessary. You could
drill a couple of holes in the VS ribs and put grommets in now for the
cable runs if you wished.
The bottom line is that there are no great problems with doing the VOR fit
at the end of the day so long as the top fibreglass portion of the VS is
made removable.
Cheers,
Leo Davies
6A getting closer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Ladies and Gentlemen,
>
>I am happy to announce the sucessful first flight of RV-6 N827GB this morning
>at 7:50 AM. It was clear, 30 degrees and a light wind out of the northwest.
>All went well, gauges in the green and a smooth running 150 hp O-320 out
front
>spinning a Sensenich metal prop. 7/10 of an hour and three landings later it
>was over. What a thrill it was. Better than when I first learned to fly. The
>plane was so smooth on the controls and the visability was fantastic.
There is
>a heavy right wing and it needs a tad of rudder trim, but other than that it
>was a great flight. Saw 170 mph indicated at 2400 rpm, and over the
numbers at
>80 mph made for a good landing. Won't need quite that speed when things get
>familiar.
>Many thanks to those of you that responded to my post last evening about carb
>heat. This list is a great asset to the RV community, I'm glad to have found
>it, even though I was done building when I did. Keep working, you are
going to
>like this airplane somewhat :-) !!!!!
>
>Gary Bray
>RV-6
>N827GB
>"Joe's Spirit"
>.7 hours and WOW
>
>
>
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BPattonsoa(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | LOUD "AIRHORN" WHILE TAXIING - Resolved |
Found out that the loud noise in low speed, or any speed taxi was the wheel
fairing outer brackets, U-810 L and R. (The new version of wheelpants) I
bolted a strip of aluminum across the nutplates to stiffen the brackets and
then went and did a little more taxiing. Did four 30 knot rapid stops to
complete breaking in the metalic pads. The noise was there with each brake
application.
Got back to the hanger and found that the left bracked had failed at the
bottom bolt. The back of the bracket was engraved about 1/32 deep by the
brake rotor. (Both left and right brackets.) The clearance to the rotor was
slightly over the recommended .094, about .125.
I took the brackets off, and intend to leave them off. After some intial
flight testing the replacements can go on with the pants, but...... I would
like to get to the bottom of this because I can see the possibility of having
to remove a wheel pant because of some problem and then fly home. Would hate
to ruin the bracket with a brake application.
Can't help but wonder why I am the only person who has had this problem. The
noise was LOUD, and the failure almost immediate.
Bruce Patton
Getting close
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | GPS use and Rivet gun update |
Howdy folks,
Well, it appears that use of my handheld GPS while aboard a 737 isn't
such a good idea..although it may not be expressly forbidden by the
carrier. I may check with them before my trip anyway. Many thanks for
the input from all you great RVers!
As for the rivet gun with a case of the "dry heaves"..it seems to be
better now! Instead of tearing it down per Bob Avery's directions, I
read the usage guidelines he sent and chose to just flood it with oil
and run it with a flush set into a block of wood for several long
bursts. About 10 seconds into the first "salvo", I noticed the rpm
increased dramatically. The was also a lot of oil all over the place,
but it was much cleaner than a few days ago...didn't look black this
time. It still would misfire when really leaning into it, as if driving
a particularly challenging #4 rivet. So, I continued this drill, more
oil, and just running it until the compressor said "Gimme a break! Will
ya?!" Yet more oil all over the place, but looked very clean, and no
more misfires!
So, if your rivet smashing airhammer 'o doom is showing similar
behaviors, give this technique a try. It seems that these things love
oil..LOTS of it.
Back to the rudder pedals...the fixed ones...simple, light and easy to
install.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
The only bad thing about the antenna on top of the Vertical is that
someone could walk into it when on the ground. Also, the signal
strength to the radio will be lower since there is an airplane between
the antenna and the VOR station when flying TO a VOR.
No one mentioned the Bob Archer "Sportscraft" Aircraft Antennas.
Check the archives. They mount in the wing tip. I have them and they
work great. Pick up stations over 100 Nautical out. Bob discounts
the antennas when you buy direct. Retail from Aircraft Spruce is
still cheaper than the "OTHER" commercial antennas. They also can be
obtained from "The Maroon Marauder" Jim Ayers.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edward Cole <emcole(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I screwed up the area code on the first post. It should have have
been 650 not 690
This is for Don Farrand, located in Los Altos, CA.
Don has the following for sale..
RV4 N144DF
Flying since 1993
500 hrs on a new Lycoming 0320 D1A from Van's
Narco 810 COm
Narco AT150 transponder w/emcoder
Trimble TNL 1000 panel mount GPS
KS Tetra II EGT/CHT monitor system
Warneke 70/74 Prop
Asking $35,000 or best offer
650-917-1295
dotndon(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Low fuel switch |
I put one of these in each tank. My tanks are not standard, so my calculations
may not apply to you. Have you gotten good responses to your querry?
Brian Eckstein
----------
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> My name is Jim Baker, I live in Klamath Falls, Oregon and I am building a
> 4. I have the tail and wings finished and am now waiting on the fuselage
> kit. I started this project four years ago and having moved, built a
> shop and with other things getting in the way of the important stuff,
> (like building airplane parts), have dusted off my project and am ready
> to get it together and do some serious building. I subscribed to the list
> before but mostly just read what was going on and lurked in the
> background. :-)
>
> I have purchased a LOW FUEL SWITCH, (float type, found in Aircraft
> Spruce), that I want to install in my RV-4 tank. Not sure if it would
> matter left or right. What I need to know is how high in the end of the
> tank should I put it to read about 5 to 6 gallons left??
>
> I saw one drawn in one of the many papers I've seen on RV's but no
> mention was made about said switch. Has anyone on this list used this
> type of switch before?
>
> jb
> Jim & Elaine Baker
> 2934 Cortez Street
> Klamath Falls, Oregon
> pz 97601
>
>
> +-- --+
> | Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites at http://www.matronics.com |
> | ---
|
> | To [un]subscribe from the RV-List, email "rv-list-request(at)matronics.com"
|
> | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other text or subject.
|
> | ---
|
> | Please aggressively edit quoted text on a followup posting!
|
> +-- --+
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Greetings folks,
I'm installing the semi-fixed rudder pedals now, and can't find the low
pressure (plastic) tubing or the high pressure (aluminum) tubing
anywhere in my pile 'o parts. I also cannot locate the master cylinder
hose assemblies as shown on the plans. These items are not listed on the
bill of materials..so..WHERE ARE THEY?! Are they in the finish kit?
Maybe the left over tubing from the pitot installation is used for the
high pressure lines? Inquiring minds want to know...even this one!
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglass-Windshield-RV-8 |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Scott and Listers;
Your response to my post on fiberglass was very helpful; Questions; When
you talk about laying up several layers of different widths, are these
all laid up at once, or is each layer allowed to cure and then is sanding
needed in between? Also, are the thin strips you cut done on a 45 degree
bias? Or can you just cut standard 2" tape down to size with the rotary
cutter? In experimenting with my epoxy, it is honey like in thickness
when mixed, and dries slightly flexible, but seems to sand well. Is this
normal or should I try a different epoxy? And then finally, on the
intersection fairings I plan to use the clay method for the form, but
what fabric weights and widths to use here, and again how to get the
fabric to turn such a tight curve without lifting up on the edges? In
practicing on scraps, this has been a problem I have noticed with
compound corners, even with 1/2" strips, a refusal to turn the corner
without lifting on the edges. I can put it on dry and it will turn the
corner, but wet is a different story. A wild idea; Can a person use
contact spray to stick the tape down in place, then wet it with resin?
And finally, can a person use Bondo instead of resin and microballoons on
the final thin smooth-out?
Thanks in advance.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Rivet guns; Oil and Moisture |
>So, if your rivet smashing airhammer 'o doom is showing similar
>behaviors, give this technique a try. It seems that these things love
>oil..LOTS of it.
Air tools do not need lots of oil. They only need the proper oil at
regular intervals; air tool oil. Not Marvel's Mystery (although will
work in a pinch), not 10W-30, not 3-in-One, but plain ole air tool oil.
I oil my tools once a day with three small drops. Twice a day if I have
been really abusing the drill, rivet gun, air sander, air file,
etc.....Once the day is done I add two more drops and run the tool for a
couple of seconds.
Moisture is the other culprit. If you live in a humid area and are
running directly from your compressor tank you need an air dryer. As the
tool runs the oil and water will mix and form an emulsion that will drip
from the tool. You will also notice the moisture when you disconnect
from the air hose. Leave tool overnight with this oil/water mix inside
and in the morning it may not work. You should also drain your
compressor each evening if water is a problem. This insides of the tanks
are not painted and will rust through if water is left in them. I know,
I had one blow up in my garage a few years back. I live in Colorado at
8500 feet, which is real dry, and have this problem in early spring.
I have created a simple water cooled dryer that works exceptionally
well, and will post directions on it's construction if anyone is
interested. This is a must if you plan on painting your own aircraft.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993 Decided to fabricate my own baffles/plenum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
FYI The following is from the
news:rec.aviation.homebuilt listing.
Doug Gray
J. Pratt wrote:
>
> I've fixed the problems with the other three files, and now the
> complete AC 43.13-1b is available. Please drop by and pick up your
> copy.
>
> Jim
>
> J. Pratt wrote:
> >
> > The new AC 43.13-1b, Acceptable Methods, Pratices and Techniques has
> > been signed.
> >
> > I hear that a print copy will not be available until early next year.
> >
> > But if you want to download it, I now have it available on my website.
> >
> > http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/faqhmblt.htm
> >
> > Note: These are zip files, which contain PDF files of each section. A
> > couple chapters didn't load for me properly. (3 of 15 have had problems
> > loading) You will see a message on a couple chapters- I hope to have
> > those ones fixed by Thanksgiving.
> >
> > This is an AC every builder and mechanic should have.
> >
> > If you have any problems with chapters other than those already listed
> > as broken, please let me know so I can fix them as well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jim Pratt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Santschi" <rv8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
I understand that the FAA will be phasing out VOR stations in the
near future, wouldn't it be kind of redundant to install a VOR receiver
in your aircraft at this point,if we will have to use GPS.
Chris Santschi
8 empannage on the way.
rv8pilot(at)hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass-Windshield-RV-8 |
You need to get a composite builder to help you. They have the experience
need to make a good compound layup. This skill is not going to come over
night. Look around for a Vari-eze, Longeze, or Cozy builder. They probably
have enough scrap and resin to do that piddly job in an afternoon.
First, you can't make compound curves with tape. You need to cut your own
tapes on the bias which is 45 degrees. Never need to use anything but the
resin to hold the layup together. I never use a brush, but use a squeegee
made from a plastic lid. You need to use gloves or a protectant on your
hands. If you wait until just the right set, you can add a layer of micro
and resin to hide the fabric. Bondo adds weight. Always mix resin in small
batches so it doesn't exotherm(get hot and boil).
If you want to do it yourself, get a composite builder to help. It looks
easy and it is easy after you know how. Sort of like setting rivets only a
lot quieter unless you take into account the builders invectives.
-----Original Message-----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 1:04 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass-Windshield-RV-8
>
>Scott and Listers;
>Your response to my post on fiberglass was very helpful; Questions; When
>you talk about laying up several layers of different widths, are these
>all laid up at once, or is each layer allowed to cure and then is sanding
>needed in between? Also, are the thin strips you cut done on a 45 degree
>bias? Or can you just cut standard 2" tape down to size with the rotary
>cutter? In experimenting with my epoxy, it is honey like in thickness
>when mixed, and dries slightly flexible, but seems to sand well. Is this
>normal or should I try a different epoxy? And then finally, on the
>intersection fairings I plan to use the clay method for the form, but
>what fabric weights and widths to use here, and again how to get the
>fabric to turn such a tight curve without lifting up on the edges? In
>practicing on scraps, this has been a problem I have noticed with
>compound corners, even with 1/2" strips, a refusal to turn the corner
>without lifting on the edges. I can put it on dry and it will turn the
>corner, but wet is a different story. A wild idea; Can a person use
>contact spray to stick the tape down in place, then wet it with resin?
>And finally, can a person use Bondo instead of resin and microballoons on
>the final thin smooth-out?
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | True Angle of Attack system for under $500 |
RiteAngle appears to have a true Angle of Attack system for under
$500. I don't know anything about it other than what's at
http://www.riteangle.com/
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Instruments |
Gary,
I used Rochester gauges and am very happy with them so far.
They are very solidly built. The CHT uses a bayonet probe.
I also like the fact that the gauges already contained range
markings for my Lycoming engine. Haven't flown yet, but
I've seen many other RV's with the Rochester gauges.
Once you get them all, they are pretty expensive though.
The all in one electronic units may be the way to go if
you have the $$$$. For me, this was one of those expensive
options that I thought I could do without.
Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
RV-6 - Cowling and Finishing Up
>
>I am sort of in a quandary about what to do about my engine's health
>monitors. I want analog gauges for their simplicity and lower cost. At
>first I was going to use the UMA line of instruments until I saw them at
>Oshkosh and realized there was a reason for them being inexpensive.
>Recent postings about UMA reliability cemented my choice not to use UMA.
>Westach was another choice that went the same way as UMA. The Mitchell
>1.5" modular instruments look great, but once you buy all the
>instruments, senders, back plates and cluster housing the price goes sky
>high.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 brake lines |
BRIAN THEY ARE,ALL IN THE FINISH KIT
TOM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV List: Lightweight Tail Wheel |
Aviation Products in Ojai, CA has or had a smaller version of a full swivel
job in their catalog. Might be worth a try...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass-Windshield-RV-8 |
Von;
I'm a novice at this. Had never worked with fiberglass until my RV. But
didn't find it that difficult, just time consuming and a lot of
sandpapering. I laid up the curve between the front of the fus. and into
the canopy. They are right about the bias cut to get the curve. The
problem then is that the damned stuff doesn't stay as you cut it. If you
cut a piece 3 in wide, 2 feet long, by the time you pick it up to move it
and put it in place, it can be 1 in wide and 4 feet long. Patience and you
will get it.
As for the curve up on the edges, you can go two ways--peel ply or saran
wrap. Peel ply is avail. from the shops and Aircraft S. You lay up, and
while still wet, lay the peel ply over the edges and press gently on. When
it sets, you just pull the peel ply off, it doesn't set in the epoxy.
Disadvantage and advant.--it leaves the setup rough like sand paper and you
have to sand it smooth. Adv.--if you are going to lay another layer, you do
not have to 'rough-up' the previous layer, the peel ply leaves it rough.
The saran wrap leaves it as smooth as glass for your final lay up. There is
an additive to the epoxy to make it more sandable.
If I can help more, please contact me direct. As I said, I'm no expert, but
learned from mistakes. But if I can lay up fiberglass, anyone can.
If you have the experience of doing this and your cowl. you may come to the
same conclusion I did.--Damned glad I didn't start on a plastic airplane.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
>>all laid up at once, or is each layer allowed to cure and then is sanding
>>needed in between? Also, are the thin strips you cut done on a 45 degree
>>bias? Or can you just cut standard 2" tape down to size with the rotary
>>what fabric weights and widths to use here, and again how to get the
>>fabric to turn such a tight curve without lifting up on the edges? In
>>practicing on scraps, this has been a problem I have noticed with
>>compound corners, even with 1/2" strips, a refusal to turn the corner
>>without lifting on the edges. I can put it on dry and it will turn the
>>Von Alexander
>>RV-8 N41VA
>>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Schofield <DrSchofield(at)compuserve.com> |
Craig,
Don't go for a ride with Fred unless your Christmas shopping is
done and all your projects are finished. I just had the pleasure of
hitching a ride with Fred on Sunday and am writing a check for the tail kit
right now. (My original plans were to start one in 2 years after I'd done
some work on the house.) His plane handles like nothing I've ever been in,
is comfortable for a couple of overweight middle-aged guys, and the view
is phenomenal! I'm sold.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sm5092(at)ldd.net (SAMMY MABRY) |
Is there any difference between the Garmin GPS III Pilot as dipicted in
Sportys for 699.00 and the Garmin GPS III in Amazon.Com for 299.00,
except the Jeppesen data base and can the data base be purchased
elsewhere and installed?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 brake lines |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Hi Brian;
If I recall correctly, all of the tubing for the brake installation comes
in the finish kit. Take note; be SURE to use the special hard-nylon
tubing for the brake connection as called for in the plans. I made the
mistake of just grabbing some tubing, figuring this must be it and had to
redo it. I had used the static-line tubing, which has the same o.d., i.d,
and wall thickness. A dumb mistake.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Greetings folks,
>
>I'm installing the semi-fixed rudder pedals now, and can't find the
>low
>pressure (plastic) tubing or the high pressure (aluminum) tubing
>anywhere in my pile 'o parts. I also cannot locate the master cylinder
>
>hose assemblies as shown on the plans. These items are not listed on
>the
>bill of materials..so..WHERE ARE THEY?! Are they in the finish kit?
>Maybe the left over tubing from the pitot installation is used for the
>
>high pressure lines? Inquiring minds want to know...even this one!
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 #379
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick Sipp" <rsipp(at)ismi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CRACKED COWLING |
A small crack is developing in the aft upper corner of the oil access door
opening in the cowl of my 4. Aircraft has 130 hours of service. All three
sides of the opening have riveted aluminum but plates for the door. The
door is secured with the a removeable hinge wire accessed from the cowl
intake. In flight particularly at higher speeds I can see the aft edge of
the door rising from the pressure in the cowl. Any thoughts on how to
reinforce this corner area of the opening?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
I think they work just fine if you own and fly a J-3 or a BC-12 or similar.
I was told by a friend who new of a CFI who purchased a GPS III (not the III
Pilot) and was bragging about it around the airport until he found out that
the airspeed (groundspeed) only went from 0-99. Otherwise, I have heard
that they work just as well as the Pilot, but unless you want to fly around
in the RV's at half throttle or with flaps hanging out all the time. . . . .
.we have to get the pilot and fork out the extra $400.
Has anyone else heard of this restriction on the plain III that can verify
this info.
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45 (finishing spar mod-left wing)
Socorro, NM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of SAMMY MABRY
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 8:02 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Garmin GPS III
>
>
> Is there any difference between the Garmin GPS III Pilot as dipicted in
> Sportys for 699.00 and the Garmin GPS III in Amazon.Com for 299.00,
> except the Jeppesen data base and can the data base be purchased
> elsewhere and installed?
>
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GPS III |
Sammy,
The difference between the two units is the Jepp database and the "pilot"
has an HSI instead of a compass. You can not install the Jepp database in
the "III". I have been using the basic "III" for a while and enter
airports as needed, the database saves them. I find it works fine if you
don't mind doing a few minutes of programming before your flights.
>
>Is there any difference between the Garmin GPS III Pilot as dipicted in
>Sportys for 699.00 and the Garmin GPS III in Amazon.Com for 299.00,
>except the Jeppesen data base and can the data base be purchased
>elsewhere and installed?
>
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
>
> I understand that the FAA will be phasing out VOR stations in the
>near future, wouldn't it be kind of redundant to install a VOR receiver
>in your aircraft at this point,if we will have to use GPS.
Actually, no one, including the FAA, knows what is going to happen with
navaids.
Theory #1 was GPS +WAAS + LAAS enhancements only, no loran, no VOR, no DME,
no NDB (At least, I think they were planning on shutting down all other
navaids. Don't know for sure.)
Everyone with LORAN RNav yelled and screamed until LORAN was spared for at
least 10 more years, giving Theory #2.
Theory #3 says that GPS is too easy to jam or interfere with, so they are
going to leave a skeleton of VORs in operation for emergency back up.
Theory #4 says WAAS (one or two geosynchronous western hemisphere GPS
satellites with differential and health information) is too expensive for
FAA to afford, and might not actually happen. (I think they were going to
pay for the WAAS satellites with all the money they were going to save from
decommissioning other navaids, which isn't happening right away, if at all.)
So I don't know what is going to happen, but the Theory #1 from a few years
ago seems unlikely right now.
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | SENSENICH FOR 360 |
So, it has been awhile since this question has been asked, so here goes, since
there "should" be some folks out there flying this prop by now. Does anybody
have any good, bad, or otherwise information regarding the new
Sensenich Metal Prop for the 0360??
Jim Nice
RV6A
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LOUD "AIRHORN" WHILE TAXIING - Resolved |
--------------03DBD5C7C45D9E474F03B606
So that's what that was!
--------------03DBD5C7C45D9E474F03B606
--------------03DBD5C7C45D9E474F03B606--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.Sager" <jsager(at)uniserve.com> |
Just bought a used 2X rivet gun from Bill Williams Tools In Fort Worth [817
838 2601] . It's supposed to be a CP. Cosmetically not pretty but drove a
few test rivets and it has a very nice trigger. Much better than the clones
I have used at $100 USD.
I got a CP angle drill for $140 USD and a Cleco pistol air drill [$45
USD] from Jerry at Action Air [313 364 5885]. The Cleco has a real sloppy
trigger shaft and I never would have picked it up off a table but it works
fine . Jerry has lots of other stuff. Very nice dimple dies are $19.95 new
,used $9.95. Rivet spacer [new] $34.95. Hole finder [new] $7.50. Last time
I talked to him he was short on rivet guns but has lots of squeezers.
Would not hesitate to deal with either company again .
Hope this helps
Jim Sager
RV4 [in pieces]
Chilliwack BC
-----Original Message-----
From: Bryan A. Gembusia [SMTP:Bryan(at)GGGConcepts.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 4:38 PM
To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RV-List: tools
[
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au> |
Hi and G'Day listers,
Looking at building 2 x blocks of 8 Tee hangers and need size of door
opening height, width and depth of hanger. Local companies have not built
this type before. Please reply off list. Thanks in advance.
Ken Glover - RV4 VH-MKW
Newcastle - Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Ordorff Systems video? |
Listers,
Anyone viewd the Orndorff Aircraft Systems videos? Just wondering if you
thought they were comprehensive and valuable.
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
-8, #80500, N558RL reserved, fuselage
Home Wing - Van's Air Force
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List; wing skinning |
I have just fitted my inboard bottom wing skin to the spar and to the outboard
skin and to my dismay the inboard skin potrudes .10" below the outboard skin
and overhangs the inboard rib by .25" at the root end. I have checked the spar
for level and I believe it is level . My question is should I trim off the
excess from the skin now or wait until later in the construction process and
what type of problems could this cause later on?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 brake lines |
>
>I'm installing the semi-fixed rudder pedals now, and can't find the
>low
>pressure (plastic) tubing or the high pressure (aluminum) tubing
>anywhere in my pile 'o parts. I also cannot locate the master cylinder
>
>hose assemblies as shown on the plans. These items are not listed on
>the
>bill of materials..so..WHERE ARE THEY?! Are they in the finish kit?
-
YES!
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordorff Systems video? |
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Anyone viewd the Orndorff Aircraft Systems videos? Just wondering if you
> thought they were comprehensive and valuable.
>
> Thanks,
> Randy Lervold
> -8, #80500, N558RL reserved, fuselage
> Home Wing - Van's Air Force
>
>
I think they were well worth the money. I did not always do it the way
George showed in the video, but it will give you a good idea of what
you are going to have coming at you, so you can plan for it.
Things start getting tight in the engine compartment, and it easy
to "paint yourself into a corner".
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ordorff Systems video? |
<< Anyone viewd the Orndorff Aircraft Systems videos? Just wondering if you
thought they were comprehensive and valuable.
Thanks,
Randy Lervold >>
Yep, the Orndorff videos are very useful. I think they are most valuable in
that they give you a picture of what the structure is supposed to look like.
Blueprints are nice, but sometimes a picture helps. Van's construction
manuals have a number of pictures, but hours of videotape gives many more
views. Also, the videos give you a sequence which will work.
I do use the fast forward button a lot... George drills lots of holes and
inserts lots of clecos, at least on the -6 videos I have.
One thing I do recommend is getting a copy of the Justice instructions (if
you're building a -6, although I'm sure a lot of it transfers to the other
airframes as well). They give a step by step approach to everything. I use
the instructions as a checklist, checking off each little step. Keeps me from
missing something. As I remember, the Justice instructions are on Hovan's RV
page, and can be found through the Matronics site.
Kyle Boatright -6...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder cable questions |
Hi,
I had some questions rearding exiting the rudder cables out of the rear
of the fuselage.
1. Ref. Dwg#34, lists a AN742-6C Clamp. Is this the old AN number for
MS21919WDG6 cushioned clamp?
2. Ref. Dwg#34, Re.- longitudinal position of rudder cable exit hole.
There is a 151.5" reference listed. What does this refer to? How is
this best measured in reference to the centerline of the fuselage?
3. Avery sells some aluminum rudder cable fairings. Anyone have any
input on whether or not they should be used?
Thank you,
Happy Thanksgiving to all.
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
Well, Thanksgiving is all but over and I can now start thinking about
Christmas and Christmas lists (family has benn bugging me for some time
now). I will be starting my fuselage as soon as the weather warms in the
spring. Can anyone recommend any tool that they found especially useful on
the fuselage but wasn't really used on the emp or wing (less likely that I
already have one)? With all the platenut talk on the list lately I thought
I maight ask for a platnut drill jig from Avery. Which size would be most
beneficial during fuselage construction? Any favorite bucking bars? Of
course, drill bits are always on the list.
A new IO-360, and most of a new panel would probably be ignored (I tried
those on my list last year) but any other suggestions that will make
fuselage construction easier and more enjoyable are apprecited.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
sealing tanks this weekend
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable questions |
<< 1. Ref. Dwg#34, lists a AN742-6C Clamp. Is this the old AN number for
MS21919WDG6 cushioned clamp?>>
Yes. They clamp on the plastic tubing sleeve and attach with a flush fastener
in a dimpled hole.
<< 2. Ref. Dwg#34, Re.- longitudinal position of rudder cable exit hole.
There is a 151.5" reference listed. What does this refer to? How is
this best measured in reference to the centerline of the fuselage?
It is a longitudinal station reference, same as the bulkhead positions as
shown on Dwg#22 (RV-6/6A). Measure the displacement from the nearest
bulkhead.
<< 3. Avery sells some aluminum rudder cable fairings. Anyone have any
input on whether or not they should be used? >>
They're great. Just trim the flange to leave about .500" width and center
about ten or so 3/32 rivets around the flange. Dimple and there you go. I
oriented the ends of the plastic tubing flush with the TE of the fairings.
*****And while we're on the subject of fairings, keep in mind my attractively
priced super sleek, and oh so voluptuous, canopy skirt caps for the 6/6A
slider. Still a steal at $10.*****
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Graves <rlgbee(at)fnbnet.net> |
I am over GPS'd with my RV-4. Have a very early Garmin 100 (8 Years?)
without data
base. Then a Trimble with data base and remote antennae. Very good
instrument.
Then had to buy a Garmin GPS 12 (about $160 at Walmart or even cheaper
at boat stores). No data base but will store 500 waypoints. Under
clear sky it will usually find
itself in about 35 seconds. It takes longer under the RV canopy. It is
good for at least
180 Knots ground speed. The Garmin 38 is limited to below 100. No good
for us.
I use both (Trimble and GPS 12. Often prefer the Garmin 12
R. Graves
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordorff Systems video? |
I like the Orndorff videos & use them as a general guide rather than step
by step. I've started to write an index to help me locate different
procedures on the tape. Has anyone produced an index that they'd like to
share with others? Maybe George has one he could pass on?
Chris Good.
West Bend, WI.
RV-6AQB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GPS III |
The older Garmin "hobby" GPS receivers (45xl, 38, etc) had the 99 knot
restriction. None of the newer ones (12xl, 12, III, III Pilot, etc) have
this restriction. My 12xl works just fine showing 450 knots on a commercial
flight. Sounds like someone is mis-remembering models.
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
>
>I think they work just fine if you own and fly a J-3 or a BC-12 or similar.
>I was told by a friend who new of a CFI who purchased a GPS III (not the
III
>Pilot) and was bragging about it around the airport until he found out that
>the airspeed (groundspeed) only went from 0-99. Otherwise, I have heard
>that they work just as well as the Pilot, but unless you want to fly around
>in the RV's at half throttle or with flaps hanging out all the time. . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Chris Santschi wrote:
> I understand that the FAA will be phasing out VOR stations in the
> near future, wouldn't it be kind of redundant to install a VOR receiver
> in your aircraft at this point,if we will have to use GPS.
Don't forget localizer and glideslope. ILS is still the only precision
approach game in town.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CRACKED COWLING |
Stop drill the crack. Flush rivet a doubler on the back side. If paint is
your concern, lay a couple layers of glass after the stop drilling and
careful cleaning and sanding of the aluminum. Could use a hartwell latch or
a couple of flush camlocs.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Sipp <rsipp(at)ismi.net>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 11:17 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: CRACKED COWLING
>
>A small crack is developing in the aft upper corner of the oil access door
>opening in the cowl of my 4. Aircraft has 130 hours of service. All three
>sides of the opening have riveted aluminum but plates for the door. The
>door is secured with the a removeable hinge wire accessed from the cowl
>intake. In flight particularly at higher speeds I can see the aft edge of
>the door rising from the pressure in the cowl. Any thoughts on how to
>reinforce this corner area of the opening?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SENSENICH FOR 360 |
JNice51355(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> So, it has been awhile since this question has been asked, so here goes, since
> there "should" be some folks out there flying this prop by now. Does anybody
> have any good, bad, or otherwise information regarding the new
> Sensenich Metal Prop for the 0360??
> Jim Nice
> RV6A
> WA State
Jim,
About a month ago, Eustace Bowhay posted an interesting piece on the
72FM prop. Unfortunately, the posting got turned into a fuel starvation
thread. Search the archives on Bohay to find his posting. Larry
Vetterman talks highly of the prop, so I went out and bought one. $1790
from a Sensenich dealer in Texas. Sure beats 4500 + governor +
maintenance.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993 Scratch building cooling plenum
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable questions |
Glenn,
You asked:
>
>3. Avery sells some aluminum rudder cable fairings. Anyone have any
>input on whether or not they should be used?
>
I used them. They required a little reshaping to fit, but it was no big
deal. I am very pleased with their appearance.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
RV-4 64ST, took delivery of Hartzell this week!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Christmas List |
Make sure you have one of those snake drill attachments.
Platenut jigs are a waste of money. Go out to the local scrap yard, buy a
piece of steel bar stock 1" wide by 1 foot long by 1/8" thick. It will cost
about $1 or less. Mark a centerline on the whole bar, drill a hole in the
center that matches the size of the platenut you want to drill, then screw a
platenut into the hole you just drilled. Now, using the platenut as a guide,
drill the "lug" holes. Use a hacksaw or bandsaw to cut the drilled piece off
the bar. You now have a jig for that sized platenut, and with a foot or more
of stock, you can make as many as you like, in as many sizes, and when they
wear out, just chuck it and make another. Beats the hell outa buying them,
or using the platenut itself as a jig. (Like I did in the beginning!)
I have also found that Black and Decker "bullet" bits are great for drilling
any hole over 1/8". They drill faster and rounder then the 135 deg split
points I've been using.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott A. Jordan <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 6:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: Christmas List
>
>Well, Thanksgiving is all but over and I can now start thinking about
>Christmas and Christmas lists (family has benn bugging me for some time
>now). I will be starting my fuselage as soon as the weather warms in the
>spring. Can anyone recommend any tool that they found especially useful on
>the fuselage but wasn't really used on the emp or wing (less likely that I
>already have one)? With all the platenut talk on the list lately I thought
>I maight ask for a platnut drill jig from Avery. Which size would be most
>beneficial during fuselage construction? Any favorite bucking bars? Of
>course, drill bits are always on the list.
>
>A new IO-360, and most of a new panel would probably be ignored (I tried
>those on my list last year) but any other suggestions that will make
>fuselage construction easier and more enjoyable are apprecited.
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>sealing tanks this weekend
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Farrar" <fourazjs(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordorff Systems video? |
Randy, Yes, I think that seeing something done can really clarify what the
plans and instructions are saying. I review them a few times before
beginning a difficult segment. Jeff Farrar, RV8A, Empennage complete, QB on
the pond., Chandler, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 11:47 AM
Subject: RV-List: Ordorff Systems video?
>
>Listers,
>
>Anyone viewd the Orndorff Aircraft Systems videos? Just wondering if you
>thought they were comprehensive and valuable.
>
>Thanks,
>Randy Lervold
>-8, #80500, N558RL reserved, fuselage
>Home Wing - Van's Air Force
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | derek reed <dreed(at)cdsnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Christmas List |
Scott A. Jordan wrote:
> Can anyone recommend any tool that they found especially useful on
> the fuselage but wasn't really used on the emp or wing (less likely
> that I
> already have one)?
> Any favorite bucking bars?
>
Scott
Have just done a major part of the fuselage and found the 'Extra long
back riveting set' Avery # 4580 indispensable, but did a little rework
on it [suggested on the list sometime back]...put another bend in the
shank so that the driving head part of the set is parallel to the shank
that locates into the gun[needs to be heated with a torch to do this].
also put a radius on the driving tip to prevent the sharp edges from
indenting the skin. This was my first attempt at back riveting and
everything came out fine. You need a good bucker on the outside while
you get to be on the inside.Don't forget the headset, it's mighty noisy
in there!
Derek Reed RV6A Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Christmas List |
>
>
>... Can anyone recommend any tool that they found especially useful on
>the fuselage but wasn't really used on the emp or wing (less likely that I
>already have one)?...
I've found I use an angle drill a lot on the fuselage and hardly had need
for one on the empennage or wings.
Bill Pagan
fuse out of jig but upside down again
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GPS III |
The Garmin GPS III although similar in appearance is a totally different
bird. The Pilot model has an updateable database whereas the GPS III
doesn't. You cannot add one to the GPS III, although you can still input
lat/lon for waypoints. It'll also give you groundspeed, course track,
heading, etc. You just won't have the Jepp database, special use airspace,
etc.
Regards,
Doug Hormann
-----Original Message-----
From: SAMMY MABRY <sm5092(at)ldd.net>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 7:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Garmin GPS III
>
>Is there any difference between the Garmin GPS III Pilot as dipicted in
>Sportys for 699.00 and the Garmin GPS III in Amazon.Com for 299.00,
>except the Jeppesen data base and can the data base be purchased
>elsewhere and installed?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordorff Systems video? |
I have the empennage video's and they have been very useful. They don't
hold your hand through each individual step, but show you how the whole
thing goes together. BTW the videos for the empennage are the same on the -6
and -8.
Regards,
Doug Hormann
(Home Wing - RV-6)
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold <RandyLervold(at)csi.com>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 1998 11:57 AM
Subject: RV-List: Ordorff Systems video?
>
>Listers,
>
>Anyone viewd the Orndorff Aircraft Systems videos? Just wondering if you
>thought they were comprehensive and valuable.
>
>Thanks,
>Randy Lervold
>-8, #80500, N558RL reserved, fuselage
>Home Wing - Van's Air Force
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>Don't forget localizer and glideslope. ILS is still the only precision
>approach game in town.
>
Oh, but not so! The trades report Continental just flew the first
commercial operation of a precision Approach using GPS at DCA and then went
on to MSP and did it all again. "Come gather round people.... cause the
times they are a changin!" No matter how slowly!
As for the VOR if your not IFR you can live without it. When the GPS quits
you can get out the maps (if you remembered to bring them!) I remember my
Tripacer that had a Narco 90 channel 1& 1/2 radio (please don't start a
thread about 1 & 1/2 radios) I got along just fine and that wasnt that long
ago.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Hartzell Prop Delivery |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
My Hartzell prop was due to be shipped Nov 10, here it is the 26th and no
prop. Does anyone know if Hartzell is way behind or having a strike or
something? Vans has no explanation other than 'it ain't here yet'.
Anyone else having problems?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flipside" <flipside(at)global.co.za> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordorff Systems video? |
Randy
If you are a first time builder, then I would definitely recommend George's
videos
B Salzmann 6A Empennage
Johannesburg
South Africa
----------
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Anyone viewd the Orndorff Aircraft Systems videos? Just wondering if you
> thought they were comprehensive and valuable.
>
> Thanks,
> Randy Lervold
> -8, #80500, N558RL reserved, fuselage
> Home Wing - Van's Air Force
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable questions |
Tom Craig-Stearman wrote:
>
>
> Glenn,
> You asked:
> >
> >3. Avery sells some aluminum rudder cable fairings. Anyone have any
> >input on whether or not they should be used?
> >
> I used them. They required a little reshaping to fit, but it was no big
> deal. I am very pleased with their appearance.
Just in case you wish to make your own fairings:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/fuse8.html
Requires about ten minutes and some scrap material which you already
have.
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WILLMINCEY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GPS III |
gps 38 and 45 have the 90kt design limit
the 12 and III do not have this problem.
the 12 does not have the groundmap like the III.
the 12 has 8volt limit on charging if you plan to plug into a/c.
Won't fail immediately but will fail in a few hours. the cost of
the 12 is $162.
That's all i know -
will mincey rv3 driver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Christmas List |
Scott A. Jordan wrote:
> With all the platenut talk on the list lately I thought
> I maight ask for a platnut drill jig from Avery. Which size would be most
> beneficial during fuselage construction? Any favorite bucking bars? Of
> course, drill bits are always on the list.
>
> A new IO-360, and most of a new panel would probably be ignored (I tried
> those on my list last year)
Scott,
The platenut jigs are a real good idea. Most of the platnuts are of the
#8 screw type so I would ask for one of them. I was to cheap to by them
and ended up making my own.
BTW, I asked for the O360-A1A for 3 years and never got it. My wife
finally bought me one this fall.
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993 Scratch building plenum.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop Delivery |
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
>
> Listers;
> My Hartzell prop was due to be shipped Nov 10, here it is the 26th and no
> prop. Does anyone know if Hartzell is way behind or having a strike or
> something? Vans has no explanation other than 'it ain't here yet'.
> Anyone else having problems?
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
Von - I ordered my prop from Sensenich in June and STILL don't have it despite
promises from them about four times. I think that the homebuilders have the
supply companies panting to keep up. I hope that the supply of parts will smooth
out soon and we will all start getting our parts when we order them.
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Kellar" <rjkellar(at)softcom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable questions |
>
>3. Avery sells some aluminum rudder cable fairings. Anyone have any
>input on whether or not they should be used?
>
>Thank you,
>Happy Thanksgiving to all.
>
>-Glenn Gordon
I can only reply to question number 3. I simply took a drill bit the size I
wanted the faring to end up and using some .025 scrap that I laid over the
opened jaws on my workbench wood vise, placed the drill bit, using only the
shank, at an angle and struck it with a hammer several times. I tested the
size opening on the cable and when it was correct stopped hammering. I
trimmed the excess metal away to a nice streamlined shape, drilled, dimpled
and riveted. Total time less than 30 min.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Wd-621 How to hold it on? |
On a 6A, Tip -up canopy, how do you keep Wd-621 (canopy handle) from
sliding out of the nylon block? On page 51, I see a AN960-816 washer and
then a hole. Is this just a bolt or a cotter pin or what?
Ross Mickey
N9PT reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Glover <glovebox(at)smartt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GPS III] |
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 01:00:42 -0800
From: Tom Glover <glovebox(at)smartt.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin GPS III
The Garmin GPSII+ doesn't have the 99 knot limitation, although the
GPSII does! The GPSIII Pilot has *much* higher screen resolution than
the GPSII, and it has all that other neat airspace stuff and the
database (it can be selectively turned off, thank God!) Most
importantly, the GPSIII Pilot's keybuttons are backlit so ya can see
them at night!
Tom Glover Surrey BC Canada
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder cable questions |
Glenn,
I bought the Avery rudder cable fairings and found no good way to rivet them
on. If I had planned to use them from the beginning, I could have used the
same rivet holes as the J-stringers and bulkhead. Or I could have slightly
moved the position of the exit hole to allow them to be used. As it is, I
can't get rivets into them without violating edge distance on the fairings
or putting to holes for the fairing too close to existing holes.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A fuselage top skins
-----Original Message-----
3. Avery sells some aluminum rudder cable fairings. Anyone
have any
input on whether or not they should be used?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable questions |
These little fairings are so easy to make with a
pair of seaming pliers!! You can make them in 15
minutes. If you have a riviting problem you can
bond them on with structural epoxy.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Christmas List |
SCOTT ASK FOR A BIGGER SHOP WITH HEAT SO YOU DONT HAVE TO WAIT FOR SPRING. I
NEED E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR THAT LIST
TOM RV8 TIO540S1AD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
Hi Matt,
I've got a question about the search engine. Is it possible to have the hits
sorted from most recent to oldest. I don't see an option to do that unless I'm
just overlooking it. When I search for something, I usually look at the latest
information first, then work my way back. If there's 4 pages of hits, then I
have to forward through all of them to get to the end.
The search engine if FANTASTIC even with this little gripe, so don't waste a
bunch of time changing anything on my behalf.
Take care. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
Rusty
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 rudder pedal options |
Hi all,
Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. I've got a question about the rudder
pedal options for the RV-8. I understand there are two different styles of
pedals available for the RV-8. One is the original easily adjustable pedals,
and the other is the "fixed" pedals.
Which set is considered standard now? And when do you specify that you want the
optional pedals (i.e. which kit do they come in)? I want the "fixed" pedals,
and my fuselage kit should be shipping within a few weeks.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Christmas List |
>
>SCOTT ASK FOR A BIGGER SHOP WITH HEAT SO YOU DONT HAVE TO WAIT FOR SPRING. I
>NEED E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR THAT LIST
TOM RV8 TIO540S1AD
TOM YOU COULD TRY <(;->)
HO HO HO!!
It could work!!
jim kelowna BC RV6-eh tanks done, main skins next.
When dreams come true the sky is the limit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Prop Delivery |
Call Hartzell.
Alex P.
> My Hartzell prop was due to be shipped Nov 10, here it is the 26th and no
> prop. Does anyone know if Hartzell is way behind or having a strike or
> something? Vans has no explanation other than 'it ain't here yet'.
> Anyone else having problems?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder cable questions |
--------------DD779016AF843854B7DD88D9
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
> Glenn,
>
> I bought the Avery rudder cable fairings and found no good way to rivet them
> on. If I had planned to use them from the beginning, I could have used the
> same rivet holes as the J-stringers and bulkhead. Or I could have slightly
> moved the position of the exit hole to allow them to be used. As it is, I
> can't get rivets into them without violating edge distance on the fairings
> or putting to holes for the fairing too close to existing holes.
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
> RV-6A fuselage top skins
As Stew suggested, I used 3M structural adhesive which allowed a very thin
flange on the fairing wich looks great, and have had no problems in the first
year and a half.......350 hours. If you go this route it allows you to trim
the fairing dow3n to next to nothing. the smaller the better I believe. Pro
seal would work just as well.
D Walsh RV-6A
--------------DD779016AF843854B7DD88D9
--------------DD779016AF843854B7DD88D9--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wd-621 How to hold it on? |
Cotter pin per page 9-6 of RV6 instructions.
Sam Buchanan
Ross Mickey wrote:
>
>
> On a 6A, Tip -up canopy, how do you keep Wd-621 (canopy handle) from
> sliding out of the nylon block? On page 51, I see a AN960-816 washer and
> then a hole. Is this just a bolt or a cotter pin or what?
>
> Ross Mickey
> N9PT reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 rudder pedal options |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Russell;
I believe the adjustable rudder pedals are still 'standard'. If you want
the fixed type, call Vans and let them know asap. You will get about $100
credit, as they are cheaper than the adjustables. They like to call the
fixed pedals 'ground adjustables'. I think they should make the ground
adjustables standard and the slide type optional.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Hi all,
>
>Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving. I've got a question about the
>rudder
>pedal options for the RV-8. I understand there are two different
>styles of
>pedals available for the RV-8. One is the original easily adjustable
>pedals,
>and the other is the "fixed" pedals.
>
>Which set is considered standard now? And when do you specify that
>you want the
>optional pedals (i.e. which kit do they come in)? I want the "fixed"
>pedals,
>and my fuselage kit should be shipping within a few weeks.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Russell Duffy
>Navarre, FL
>RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Christmas List |
>Platenut jigs are a waste of money......
I like mine........
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked cowling |
>A small crack is developing in the aft upper corner of the oil access door
>opening in the cowl of my 4. All three sides of the opening have riveted
>aluminum butt plates for the door.
Since this is a 'non-airflow' area of the cowling, you don't have to worry
about disrupting smooth airflow across the inside of the cowling. The corner
needs to be reinforced with tapering layers of fiberglass. Try this: get the
area REALLY clean (devoid of grease, oil, etc.) then get out your Dremmel
tool and sandpaper and rough up an area an inch or so out from the corner,
even if you have a riveted metal edge; rough it up too. Stop-drill the
crack. Then lay progressively narrower strips of glass cloth up, cut to fit
the 90 degree angle of the opening, working towards the edge of the access
hole. Four to six layers should be way enough. It will be a PITA (pain in
the butt) to get it to fit around/in between the rivets. This should give it
some added strength in the area and not let it flex so much. After the resin
becomes tacky, install the cowel on the airplane so it hardens in position.
Of course, then you'll have to fill the crack and stopdrill hole and paint
the cowling and.........
>The door is secured with the a removeable hinge wire accessed from the cowl
>intake.
It depends on what direction your door opens where various stresses are. You
may have to change the orientation of the door; BIG PITA. Most seem to open
outboard and it sounds as if yours does too. It may be your method of
securing the door is causing undue sress on this corner of of the hole. You
may need to look at that.
>In flight particularly at higher speeds I can see the aft edge of the door
>rising from the pressure in the cowl.
Really? This SHOULD be in a low pressure area of the cowling, as far as ram
air from the forward air intakes, so there shouldn't be much pressure from
inside the cowel. How tight are your baffling seals? You should be able to
tell by the pattern on the inside of the cowling where the seals butt up
against it. Is there a continuous area of contact? If not, air is getting
passed and into the accessory area of the engine compartment, creating
pressure where it shouldn't be. Makes for inefficient cooling and a waste of
cooling air which creates more drag. The pressure may also be from the
lifting pressure of air overflowing the cowling. Reinforcing the door may
help eliminate that. If your door is just the fiberglass from the cut-out of
the coweling, it needs to be reinforced or will either flex or warp. Again,
successive layers of fiberglass will stiffen it up.
And you thought the building phase was over............
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
I am a CFII and my GPS III (Not pilot) gives very accurate ground speed
readings well above 100 mph.
>
>I think they work just fine if you own and fly a J-3 or a BC-12 or similar.
>I was told by a friend who new of a CFI who purchased a GPS III (not the III
>Pilot) and was bragging about it around the airport until he found out that
>the airspeed (groundspeed) only went from 0-99. Otherwise, I have heard
>that they work just as well as the Pilot, but unless you want to fly around
>in the RV's at half throttle or with flaps hanging out all the time. . . . .
>.we have to get the pilot and fork out the extra $400.
>
>Has anyone else heard of this restriction on the plain III that can verify
>this info.
>
>Rob Reece
>RV-3 SN45 (finishing spar mod-left wing)
>Socorro, NM
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of SAMMY MABRY
>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 1998 8:02 AM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: RV-List: Garmin GPS III
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any difference between the Garmin GPS III Pilot as dipicted in
>> Sportys for 699.00 and the Garmin GPS III in Amazon.Com for 299.00,
>> except the Jeppesen data base and can the data base be purchased
>> elsewhere and installed?
>>
>>
>>
>> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
On Thu, 26 Nov 1998, Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> >Don't forget localizer and glideslope. ILS is still the only precision
> >approach game in town.
> >
>
> Oh, but not so! The trades report Continental just flew the first
> commercial operation of a precision Approach using GPS at DCA and then went
> on to MSP and did it all again. "Come gather round people.... cause the
> times they are a changin!" No matter how slowly!
Well, $2000-$2500(US) buys you Cat-I and Cat-II precision approach
capability for your RV. How much do GPS receivers cost that will get you
Cat-I capability? And as far as I have heard, there is no plan to support
Cat-II precision approaches with GPS.
So, I hold that LOC/GS is still the only game in town.
> As for the VOR if your not IFR you can live without it. When the GPS quits
> you can get out the maps (if you remembered to bring them!) I remember my
> Tripacer that had a Narco 90 channel 1& 1/2 radio (please don't start a
> thread about 1 & 1/2 radios) I got along just fine and that wasnt that long
> ago.
I made my 16-year-old son navigate us to Oshkosh in our Clipper using map,
compass, clock, and E6B. We didn't even get lost. I wouldn't let him use
the GPS.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: cabin speaker |
Makes a good backup in case your headset barfs and you can turn on the radio
while you work in you hangar and listen to the tower and traffic.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Date: Monday, October 19, 1998 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: cabin speaker
>
>>Is there any point if having a cabin speaker in an RV. ....noticed Bob
>Nuckoll's comment that he was yet to see a homebuilt quiet enough to use a
>cabin speaker.
>
>I would agree with Bob on this one. You would not want to fly without a
>headset, way to loud!
>
>Dave Hudgins
>RV-6A Nashville
>
>
--+
> | Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites at http://www.matronics.com
|
> | ---
|
> | To [un]subscribe from the RV-List, email
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" |
> | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other text or
subject. |
> | ---
|
> | Please aggressively edit quoted text on a followup posting!
|
>
--+
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
Maybe this is obvious to everyone already, but I found a good way to trim
the inboard top flap skin to match the fuselage. I simply put the flap on
the wing about 4 hinge pitches, or 4", outboard from its proper location.
I then transfered the fuselage contour to the flap by measuring 4" out from
the fuselage at enough points to generate the contour.
BTW, I believe the plans for the flap section say to pre-trim this area to
.5" overhanging the rib, and that would have left very little margin. I
would not trim it at all until mating wings/flaps/fuselage.
Alex P.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au> |
Hello to Vancouverites.
I wish to contact any people from Vancouver. Please contact me direct.
Regards Les Rowles.
Les Rowles
Po Box 1895
Traralgon
Australia 3844
lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 rudder pedal options |
How handy are the "ground adjustble" pedals to adjust? Does anyone have an
estimate on how much time it would require?
hilljw(at)aol.com
rv8a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
In the past several of you have mentioned an ICQ RV chat room. I have ICQ
on my system but have been unable to find the chat room. Can anyone offer
any assistance, advise, direction, HELP?
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Does anyone have much experience with using venturis for vacuum,
instead of pumps? I would like to put a simple system on mine to
drive a couple gyros. I was mainly wondering if they would have
enough vacuum to spool up a artificial horizon before takeoff.
If it couldn't I don't think I would fool with one. Thanks.
Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
>
>
> Does anyone have much experience with using venturis for vacuum,
> instead of pumps? I would like to put a simple system on mine to
> drive a couple gyros. I was mainly wondering if they would have
> enough vacuum to spool up a artificial horizon before takeoff.
> If it couldn't I don't think I would fool with one. Thanks.
> Michael.
Michael - In order for a venturi to work there must be air flow through it. For
an A/H to function before take off you would have to taxi faster than most
airport operators would allow :-) Usually they supply enough vacumm for the A/H
to start up and settle down until you are in the air. They do work fairly well
for a light panel but contribute to drag and have been known to ice up just when
you really need them. They definitely are much cheaper to install but most
pilots like the dependability of the pump.
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vancouver RVers |
Hi Les,
I'm not in Vancouver but about 1/2 way between Vancouver and Calgary on the
trans Canada Highway. 5 hrs by car to Van and 7hrs to Calgary by car. If
I can be of any help please let me know.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
Salmon Arm B.C.
----------
> From: L & M Rowles <lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Vancouver RVers
> Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 3:47 PM
>
>
> Hello to Vancouverites.
> I wish to contact any people from Vancouver. Please contact me direct.
> Regards Les Rowles.
> Les Rowles
> Po Box 1895
> Traralgon
> Australia 3844
> lmrowles(at)netspace.net.au
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 rudder pedal options |
Take out 4 bolts. If you keep the lower section of the forward baggage bin,
you'd have to remove that section, about 10 screws in a tough to reach spot.
Then you have to adjust the cable lenghts by using spacers. You can see a
picture of the "ground adjustable" installation on my web page, in the
"current progress" section.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
----- Original Message -----
From: <HillJW(at)aol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 rudder pedal options
>
>How handy are the "ground adjustble" pedals to adjust? Does anyone have
an
>estimate on how much time it would require?
>hilljw(at)aol.com
>rv8a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Send me your ICQ # Vince. If you are online from 8-11 Eastern time, we will
invite you in. It's not a "room", it's just a group of people, you either
have to be invited in, or invite somebody else to chat with you. A current
list of builders using the program can be found on my website.
Regulars include Al Mojzisik, Doug Ronzendaal, Bruce Stobbe, Charlie Kuss,
Jeff Orear, Chet Razer, Jim Nice, Peter Winter, and a few other Aussie
builders.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
----- Original Message -----
From: V. E. Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 8:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: ICQ
>
>In the past several of you have mentioned an ICQ RV chat room. I have ICQ
>on my system but have been unable to find the chat room. Can anyone offer
>any assistance, advise, direction, HELP?
>
>Vince
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 rudder pedal options |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
HillJW;
Ground adjustable rudder pedals have four AN-3 bolts and nuts holding the
entire unit to the floor. Would take about 15 minutes to adjust.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>How handy are the "ground adjustble" pedals to adjust? Does anyone
>have an
>estimate on how much time it would require?
>hilljw(at)aol.com
>rv8a
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Hinge pin material |
Hi Folks
Does anybody know where to buy hinge pin material ?
I am looking to make a longer hingepin for my elevator trim tab. That
way I can secure it to a nutplate mounted to the trim tab spar.
Can this hinge material be anealed so that I can bend a eye on the end ?
I noticed the actuator arm for the trim tab does not lay flat on the
trim tab. It appears that one of the pop rivets tried to pull trough the
skin of the trimtab and made a 'reverse' dimple. The dimple is very
slight but the actuator arm does not lay flat all the way and it anoys
me. (tandrum here ;-} )
Anybody tried to ddrill out an md-42 pop rivet before ??
Thanks
gert
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________________________________________________________________________________
I have a "super venturi" on my c-172 and it does not spin up the gyros before
takeoff it creates about 2" of suction before takeoff on the propwash only but
not until I get going about 80kts does it create 4.4 to 5.0" to adequately
power my Artificial horizon and DG. I am however considering a venturi for my
RV-6 though because I do not intend on flying any IFR in the 6 and the venturi
is very reliable and cheap.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net> |
-Would appreciate any constructive input. Two hours into test flights of
an RV-4 rebuild project. Have a rich running problem. Really rich.
Really Really rich. Black smoke, sooty exhaust, black plugs. The limited
flying I have done was accomplished by leaning before takeoff. The thing
has loaded up and quit a couple of times on the ground. 150 hp O-320-c2b
(at least that is what the plate says -the logs are really fuzzy -Have
deduced that the engine started life as an O-320-nothing. It's old.)
bottom end overhauled, top has ~400 hrs on it apparently and running
pacesetter wood prop. Anyway, have tried two MS MA-4SPA carbs 10-3678-32
and -12 both with similar results. The -32 came with the engine. Fuel
press ~3 psi w/o boost and 6 with. Seems to make no difference. Anybody
suggest a good carb for this install? any suggestion at all? The engine
runs fairly well after screwin' with the mix for awhile (wood props ARE
smooth) but the mixture is really sensitive/coarse -very little
resolution there. I need a real solution. Have stopped flying until I
get some satisfaction here.
Elsewhere in the news... the flying part has been fantastic except for
the added nervousness caused by an engine that's not quite right. Man
these things fly nice. Wow. I had forgotten just how nice. Wow. I mean
really nice. Wow. Did I say Wow? Wow. Nice. Hooooeeee!
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
Thanks for all the replies. I would want it to be able to at
least spool up a horizon before takeoff, because at night right
after takeoff is a good time to have one, sometimes. Thanks
again. Michael.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rich Rich Rich |
Are you sure about the mag timing?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinge pin material |
You can buy the hinges from Wicks, Van's, Aircraft Spruce, etc. Even if
they make you buy the whole hinge instead of just a pin, that is no big
deal; it's all cheap. You can heat the pin with a torch to bend a tighter
radius.
It is easy to drill out a pop rivet. Just drive the nail deeper than the
head before you drill so that it won't cause the drill bit to go off-center.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
tcraigst(at)ionet.net
RV-4 64ST installing cabin heat ducts
>
>Does anybody know where to buy hinge pin material ?
>
>Can this hinge material be anealed so that I can bend a eye on the end ?
>
>Anybody tried to ddrill out an md-42 pop rivet before ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Footwell Plans |
Look in "18 Years of the RVator". The article should be in there. One
point to be careful of: Make sure the footwells will not interfere with
your aileron push tubes. Mine did not, but came very close. Even though I
placed my control stick weldment slightly forward of normal to match the
push tube holes in the fuse sides.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
RV-4 64ST no longer at Laughlin AFB :
)
>Referencing the thread from the archives does anyone have a copy of the
>article they could fax/email/send me? Any assistance greatly appreciated.
>
>Match: #5 Message: #11220 Date: May 21, 1996 From:
>[tcraig-stearman(at)laugate1.lau.aetc.af.mil] (Tom Craig-Stearman) Subject:
>RV-4 footwells
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
Re: Venturis. You need to check out the RV-4 built by Dr. .......can't recall
his name @ the moment, but he's on the EAA board of directors. One of his
many innovations (dual batteries, dual just about everything) was using one of
the smaller size venturis and mounting it on the belly, aft/downstream of
engine exhaust pipe. This mounting location took advantage of the exhaust
airflow while on the ground, automatically took care of any venturi icing
problems, and was rather unobtrusive to boot. The Dr.s rather exceptional
aircraft was written up a few years ago in Sport Aircraft, where he discussed
the dual battery installation, windshield heat, dual gryos w/ the venturi
back-up, oxygen system, etc., complete with references and manufacturers
listed. I highly recommend it. Again, can't recall his name at the moment, but
remember he was from Fort Collins, Colorado. Will search my files for more
info.
Doug Seward, -4, Seattle, wings (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <BJapundza(at)ksmconsulting.com> |
Listers,
I just wanted to express my satisfaction publicly about my GPS III Pilot.
After using it for a couple of months in rental aircraft, I decided to
permanently make a part of my RV-6's panel. If any of you would like to see
a picture of it in my panel, reply to me off-list. It does everything thing
a "standard" panel mount does, looks like a panel mount (the way I did it),
at 1/3 the price.
Bob Japundza
RV-6, installing baffle seals today
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rich Rich Rich |
Put a T in the fuel line going into the Carb. Use Clear tubing vertical off
the T so you can see the float setting and the fuel level. It sounds like
either your float is sticking or leaking badly. Also your float could have
sunk. The old metal ones leaked and sank. The ADed plastic foam absorbs
gas and sinks as well.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Spencer <dspencer(at)kiva.net>
Date: Friday, November 27, 1998 8:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Rich Rich Rich
>
>-Would appreciate any constructive input. Two hours into test flights of
>an RV-4 rebuild project. Have a rich running problem. Really rich.
>Really Really rich. Black smoke, sooty exhaust, black plugs. The limited
>flying I have done was accomplished by leaning before takeoff. The thing
>has loaded up and quit a couple of times on the ground. 150 hp O-320-c2b
>(at least that is what the plate says -the logs are really fuzzy -Have
>deduced that the engine started life as an O-320-nothing. It's old.)
>bottom end overhauled, top has ~400 hrs on it apparently and running
>pacesetter wood prop. Anyway, have tried two MS MA-4SPA carbs 10-3678-32
>and -12 both with similar results. The -32 came with the engine. Fuel
>press ~3 psi w/o boost and 6 with. Seems to make no difference. Anybody
>suggest a good carb for this install? any suggestion at all? The engine
>runs fairly well after screwin' with the mix for awhile (wood props ARE
>smooth) but the mixture is really sensitive/coarse -very little
>resolution there. I need a real solution. Have stopped flying until I
>get some satisfaction here.
>
>
>Elsewhere in the news... the flying part has been fantastic except for
>the added nervousness caused by an engine that's not quite right. Man
>these things fly nice. Wow. I had forgotten just how nice. Wow. I mean
>really nice. Wow. Did I say Wow? Wow. Nice. Hooooeeee!
>
>
>Scott
>N4ZW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
I am in the process of building the elevator control system. The manual
gives a 5 degree variance in the elevator travel maximums. Where should
I place the control stops? At the minimum or maximum travel?
Thanks,
Glenn Gordon
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Buster" <6430(at)axion.net> |
> Does anyone have much experience with using venturis for vacuum,
> instead of pumps? I would like to put a simple system on mine to
> drive a couple gyros. I was mainly wondering if they would have
Jon Johanson of Australia used an external venturi on his round the world
flights. Worked for him. Check the photos or ask people at Van's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rich Rich Rich |
Do you have a primer?? If so is the eng. getting fuel
through it??
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
Glenn & Judi wrote:
> gives a 5 degree variance in the elevator travel maximums. Where should
> I place the control stops? At the minimum or maximum travel?
>
As with everything, stretch it to the limit. Go for the Max. If your
read the paragraph again, you will find there is a 5 degree variance
between the minimum and maximum.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
On Fri, 27 Nov 1998, MICHAEL wrote:
>
> Does anyone have much experience with using venturis for vacuum,
> instead of pumps? I would like to put a simple system on mine to
> drive a couple gyros. I was mainly wondering if they would have
> enough vacuum to spool up a artificial horizon before takeoff.
> If it couldn't I don't think I would fool with one. Thanks.
A good venturi will pull sufficient vacuum on the ground from propwash to
start the gyros turning but not to spin them up to full speed. I would
bet that, by the time you lift off, your gyros will be spinning fast
enough to provide adequate reference. This should be sufficient for all
operations short of doing zero/zero takeoffs.
As for reliability, I can't think of a more reliable source of vacuum for
air-driven gyros. In fact, I am putting just that system into my Piper
Clipper right now. The Achilles' heel of the venturi is ice. They can
ice up pretty quickly. You can mount the venturi downstream of your
exhaust and that will help to keep the venturi deiced.
Someone else mentioned somthing like, "... the reliability of a vacuum
pump ..." in their message. The phrase "reliable vacuum pump" is an
oxymoron. I have had several vacuum pumps fail on me in flight, once
while on instruments. Fortunately I had installed a Precise Flight
standby vacuum system so with a reduction in manifold pressure I was able
to keep the gyros turning until the completion of my flight.
If you have chosen to power your gyros with air, a valve to allow you to
use manifold vacuum to drive your gyros is cheap insurance. Just remember
to richen the mixture.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rich Rich Rich |
check the type cert for the aircraft that the eng came off of, and make sure
you don't need a MA-3-??? I have 3 , 0-320s and they all have MA-3 somethings
Pat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Santschi" <rv8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
Does anybody find it necessary to re-prime over rivet heads after
setting in parts that have already been primed,or is this one of those
steps where it makes no difference.
Chris Santschi
8 Empannage on the way.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rich Rich Rich |
SCOTT LOOK AT YOUR FUEL PRIMER TO SEE IF ITS LEAKING .
TOM RV8
TIO540S1AD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prime rivets |
Chris,
How many rivets are you talking about and where?
It is always difficult to get paint to adhear to rivet heads.
They are a great place to trap dirt and grime. If you look
around at older paint jobs you will find lots of rivet heads
with loose or peeling paint. This is because of poorly
prepaired surfaces of course. Since you have pre primed
some of the outer skins or whatever you will have to consider
spot shooting the rivet heads with a detail gun and then blending
with scotchbrite ect. Or of course just leaving them alone.
Stew RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <RandyLervold(at)csi.com> |
| Subject: | Orndorff video clarification |
Listers,
Thanks to all who pass along comments on the usefulness of the Orndorff
videos. My questions was unfortunately unclear... I'm after opinions on the
AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS video, not the empennage, wings, fuselage, or finishing kit
videos. Their brochure indicates this is a three hour video that takes you
through all the under-cowl systems such as fuel, oil, electrical, and
cooling.
Anybody seen it and have a recommendation?
Thanks,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, #80500, N558RL reserved, fuselage
Home Wing - Van's Air Force
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 rudder pedal options |
>Then you have to adjust the cable lenghts by using spacers. You can see a
>picture of the "ground adjustable" installation on my web page, in the
>"current progress" section.
>
>Moe Colontonio
Hey Moe,
These pics are great! Thanks. Now.... does anyone have pictures of the
"standard" RV-8 rudder pedals? I guess I might as well make an informed
decision about these things.
Thanks,
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks- can't put them off any longer)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <roba(at)globalink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff video clarification |
>Listers,
>
>Thanks to all who pass along comments on the usefulness of the Orndorff
>videos. My questions was unfortunately unclear... I'm after opinions on the
>AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS video, not the empennage, wings, fuselage, or finishing
kit
Randy,
I just watched the systems videos in preperation for starting this work
(picking up engine today, hanging it and the cowling first). Highly
recommended.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: venturis and reference articles |
>Re: Venturis. You need to check out the RV-4 built by Dr. .......
Dean Hall. His article, one that you should have pulled from your file to
refer to for inspiration as you build, is in the May 1994 Sport Aviation. I
believe he had to move the venturi to its present position as the first
position wasn't as effective. It's been a while since I flew with him and I
could be wrong. If you look closely at the photo on page 80, just medial to
the venturi is a small metal plate covering the hole where a venturi used to be.
Other Sport Aviation issues you need to stare at: October 1987; October
1989; March 1993.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Beginning the second year...........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Corbitt" <donc(at)analogia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Where Are You? |
Whenever someone SPAMs me, and makes the mistake of leaving a 1-800 (or
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members to waste a SPAMmer's time, but if anyone chooses to leave a message
for
>FREE INFORMATION - No Obligation
>
>1. Call 888-249-7130
>2. Leave your name, URL and contact phone
and they call you back, send me private email. I'll collect responses for a
week or so, and send a summary to the list. Could be entertaining....
(If you think it is despicable of me to waste these bozo's time and money
send me private flame mail.)
Winners are determined by longest message left, longest call-back, and most
creative imaginary business description.
Please don't followup to the RV-list. The original SPAM was a total waste.
This followup is off-topic (but fun, at least for me). Followups beyond
this point are not needed. Flame me, not the list, etc.
Thanks.
--
Don Corbitt, donc(at)analogia.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mcomeaux" <mcomeaux(at)cmc.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Where Are You? |
Take me off your list
----------
> From: generalI(at)webmail.bellsouth.net
> To: bigJ(at)webmail.bellsouth.net
> Subject: RV-List: Where Are You?
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 1998 6:01 AM
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 brake lines |
>Hi Brian; If I recall correctly, all of the tubing for the brake
>installation comes in the finish kit. Take note; be SURE to use the
>special hard-nylon tubing for the brake connection as called for in
>the plans. I made the mistake of just grabbing some tubing, figuring
>this must be it and had to
>redo it. I had used the static-line tubing, which has the same o.d.,
>i.d,
>and wall thickness. A dumb mistake.
>
-
If I recall correctly the only place that nylon (plastic) line is used on
an RV-8(A) is for the reservoir to the brake cylinders.
The brake cylinder to caliper circuit uses high pressure flex hose from
the peddle which then becomes aluminum line the rest of the way.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rich Rich Rich |
>Do you have a primer?? If so is the eng. getting fuel
>through it??
>Stew RV4 Co.
>
>
This would also be my first guess since you have tried more than one
carburetor which would most likely rule out a stuck or sinking float,
etc.
If you have a plunger type of engine primer they have check valves inside
that can get stuck open which will allow fuel to be sucked by the engine
through the primer lines directly to the cylinders.
Try disconnecting your primer system (if you have one). Be sure to seal
of the primer system when disconnected so that you don't also cause an
induction leak.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
>I am in the process of building the elevator control system. The
>manual
>gives a 5 degree variance in the elevator travel maximums. Where
>should
>I place the control stops? At the minimum or maximum travel?
>
>Thanks,
>Glenn Gordon
>RV-6
>
>
You should try and make the maximum travel when setting the control
stops. Some times a builder will have a slight interference between a
control surface and an adjoining skin for instance which would prevent
them from getting the entire travel range so minimums are specified as an
allowable deviation from the desired travel range.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Main Gear Tow In |
Listers,
I'm in the middle of installing my RV-6AQ's wheel fairings, and I
noticed that both my main wheels toe in slightly when the plane is on
jacks (gear off the floor entirely). The manual says there should be no
toe in.
Sighting from above, it appears that the front of the tire is towed in
about 3/16" at the front, relative to a center line parallel to the plane's
center line. To visualize: The parallel center line goes right thru the
center of the tread on the rear of the tire, but on the front of the tire the
center of the tire tread is 3/16" inside the line. My trig may be rusty,
but I think that comes out to about three-fourths of a degree of toe in
on each wheel.
Have others noticed this? Is it anything to worry about? I intend to
install the fairings with no toe in. Correct?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Temperfoam and Lava Buns |
The comforts of Temperfoam seats have been previously discussed. The main
problem with it is cold. Winter. Now, for example. It gets HARD and takes
several minutes...SEVERAL minutes to get it soft enough to be comfortable.
There are some things you can do to help: Keep your seat inside the house
and warm. When you go flying, drag it out to the airplane. You can sit on it
on the way to the airport or keep it down by the heater in the car. You can
have a summer seat made of Temperfoam, a winter seat made of regular foam.
Or get some Lava Buns. Those of you who sit through fall weather football
games may be familier with this device. It is a nylon bag with a gel insert
that you heat up in the microwave for about six minutes and it comes out
HOT. It stays warm for "hours". It is made for sitting on during cold
weather sporting events. Or for heating Temperfoam. You can heat it at home,
wrap it up in a jacket or blanket and it retains enough heat to at least get
the Temperfoam started while you do your preflight. Or if there is a
microwave at the airport or in your hanger, heat it there. Get two and
sandwich the seat between them while you drive to the airport, if you take
your seat home. I suppose you could sit on one while you taxi, if you have
enough canopy clearance.
Just another modern marvel.......
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Year Two
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | THEZING3(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: The Zing-new RV-6A bulider |
I am looking for used tools. Can surely use everything needed to build new
RV-6A.
I'm starting my dream project 12/98 in Long Island, New York. Please e-mail me
thru
matronics.com or THEZING3(at)AOL.COM
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Main Gear Tow In |
--> RV-List message posted by - mailto:<"Dennis Persyk" >
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 1:49 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV-6A Main Gear Tow In
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm in the middle of installing my RV-6AQ's wheel fairings, and I
>noticed that both my main wheels toe in slightly when the plane is on
>jacks (gear off the floor entirely). The manual says there should be no
>toe in.
>
>Sighting from above, it appears that the front of the tire is towed in
>about 3/16" at the front, relative to a center line parallel to the plane's
>center line>
>Tim Lewis
Tim,
In my 6A instructions, page 1A of a three-page insert, RV6A section 8,
11.94: SK-63 calls out 1/16 toe in measured with an angle iron piece
spanning both gear legs. This works out to a toe in of angle=arctan((1/16)/
5 3/4) = arctan(0.011) = 0.6 degrees.
The tire is 13 inches in diameter, so your toe in is arctan((3/16)/6 1/2)
arctan(0.029) = 1.7 degrees.
Additional gear geometry data are available in the archives under a post I
made a year or so ago outlining a method of measuring same.
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hinge pin material |
--> RV-List message posted by - mailto:
<< Does anybody know where to buy hinge pin material ? >>
stainless steel welding rod available at your local welding supply store works
well.
Ro
taVR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle Fitting Question |
--> RV-List message posted by - mailto:>
Fellow Builders,
Does anybody out there have any pictures, drawings, or instructions on
how the engine baffling goes together. I have made mine from scratch
from the included plans and have questions on how the front inlet
floors, inlet sides and front center baffle all fit together. The
instructions in the manual say that most builders buy the kit from Van's
and there are not enough pictures showing the details I need. What great
instructions! Why do I even bother to read the manual.
Thanks in Advance
Gary Zilik - Baffled
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff video clarification |
I bought it, I watched it, I like it. I particularly like being able to see
how somebody else resolved routing issues. I think all of George's
videos are worth the money.
Tim Lewis
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and Trap Door |
The plans are poor at best when detailing the fabrication, location, etc. of
the Inverted Fuel Anti Hang-up Guides and trap door. Can someone elaborate
as to what they did for their inverted fuel installation?
Sincerely,
Steven
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Buster" <6430(at)axion.net> |
At the field that I haunt, there is an rather non-descript old guy who
drives his old blue Chevy through the gate and parks beside hangar 32. He's
a bit bent over, not very big, and he's quiet. Until you ask him what he
flies.
When the hangar door opens, my Gawd, there is the pointy white nose of
a beautiful RV, set to roll out and do her stuff. What's it like to fly
that ? and how can this old fart handle it ?
He climbs aboard, collecting this buckle and that, straps it all
together, and with head down, checks all the goings on in the cockpit
before donning helmet, headset, hits the go button and she fires up with a
sound unlike any other small plane.
I walk to the edge of the taxi way and watch while he pulls his elbow in
from the side, rolls the canopy closed, and starts his roll.
By the time the sound reaches me, the tail is up and he is a white
streak, or is it blue ?, as the Corsair, ah, RV, runs a few yards, lifts
off and climbs away in a curving arc and is soon gone.
I'm still there when later he returns and I ask what it was like and
what he saw.
He tells me of Kahili, the island strip, where he just left and climbed
out over the sea just 5 miles off. This is about where some fliers noticed
the engine going into automatic rough, or "Kahili Knock" when out over the
sea.
But close to here, there is, in the shallow water, the clear outline of
a sunken ship which he flies down low and fast over as if on a strafing or
gun camera run. This is in the Pacific, but Northwest, we have no tropical
lagoons here, but down there, that ship is there in the shallow water of a
green lagoon.
He thinks of the leopard of Kilimanjaro, the dry and frozen body of
a leopard up near the summit of snowy Kilimanjaro. What was he seeking
there ?........and here, what was this ship doing here in this unlikely
place, this shallow lagoon where the Corsair, uh, RV, does a gun run over
it ?
Never mind he says, for soon he sees another RV of another color,
going past, fast, the other way. What great fun it is to bring this little
fighter fast around and chase the other RV. This much is true, for in but a
few moments, with engine turning combat speed, he catches the other, but
not wanting to scare too much, banks up and away and is gone from view, for
now below, a set of tracks which, when he plunges down to follow, finds
that at 100 feet, out here in nowhere, he can see the speed, where the
railroad ties become a 3 mile long bar code of a scanner. Fast and blurry.
Suddenly he is over the water's edge again and still with speed, arcs
around the shore line where the trees meet the water and click off
fractions of milliseconds as the fighter rounds the cape and heads for
home.
The trees looked like palms, but of course, that could not be.
Landing was like it should appear, a fast white, or blue, image, big prop
arc, flaps hanging out from the short, fat wings just like the F4U,
carrier-like approach where downwind, base and final are all one, the low
wing levels up just when it needs to and she settles on the mactrack and
rolls out.
I walk back to the hangar to watch him roll back the canopy, take off
the headset, shut her down and hoist himself up to sit on the seatback and
grin the RV grin. He shoots both fists in the air with thumbs cocked.
Another great RV / Corsair combat run. Back to Kahili and laughing
pilots.
For a while, the RV melted away the years and the old guy was 19 again.
But now, this bent over old guy with snow on top and no fire in the
furnace, puts the helmet and bird away, climbs back in the blue Chevy and
is out the gate and gone home.
Stopping at Safeway to get some coffee and stuff, they ask, "need some
help with that Sir ? " Can I help you out to the car "?
No need really. He manages somehow.
How do I know all this ? and just who is this old guy ?
Well, 'tis I, dear RV friend, 'tis I ...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Windshield-RV-8 |
Scott,
Would this method work for a -4 (of course the fiberglass would not be
permanently attached to the metal)???
Joe Rex
-----Original Message-----
From: smcdaniels+AEA-Juno.com +ADw-smcdaniels+AEA-Juno.com+AD4-
how
+AD4-a rivet pounder could get a windshield / canopy finish that looks so
+AD4-good.
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-Scott McDaniels
+AD4-These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
+AD4-reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and Trap Door |
>Can someone elaborate as to what they did for their inverted fuel
installation?<
Steven,
You're right, the plans are vague. The drawing of the trap door is not
bad, don't think I can describe it verbally any better.
In short:
If you are familiar with aerobatics you are probably familiar with the
"Aresti dance". Put your flop tube in the tank with stiffners and ribs
installed (only inboard bay needs to be in) and the rear baffle removed.
Do your Aresti dance and watch the flop tube. If there is any way that the
flop tube could get hung up anywhere, find a way to block it.
What the plans show / my modifications:
Picture in your mind (or better yet put the flop tube, stiffners and rib in
place and simulate) a vertical down line where the tube will fall forward
of the stiffner. Because of the amount of flexibility in the flop tube it
could end up in front of the stiffner and against the rib. Now put the
tank into a steep climb. The tube will be hung up in front of the stiffner
against the rib. If you look closely at the plans, you'll see an anti
hangup guide going from the rear stiffner to the inboard rib. This will
prevent the flop tube from getting hung up in front of the stiffner. Use a
piece of any scrap and clamp it in position with cleko side clamps and test
its effectiveness. Mine goes from about 2" out on the stiffner to about
half way up the rib just in front of the fuel transffer hole.
I also saw a small posibility (knife edge flight) of the tube getting hung
up in the fuel transfer hole (that was cut out of the center of the would
be lightning hole) and put a small strip of alluminum across it to be sure.
The plans also show a guide across the access plate on the inboard rib. I
couldn't see any possibility of the tube hanging up on the platnuts but put
a guide in there to prevent the flop tube from continuously rubbing and
chaffing on them. The plans vaguely show a strip extending from one
platnut on the top to one on the bottom, extended out to protect the tube
from the hardware (picture a sideways "U" with legs extended out from the
tips). I was concerned about the possibility of the tube getting hung up
above (or below) the guide as shown so I brought mine up near the top of
the tank before bending it down (picture the "U" with legs extended
inward). It was more difficult to rivet into position but eliminated one
more possibility.
There are a couple builders with web pages that had pretty good photos. I
don't recall who but I linked to various RV-8 builders through Vans web
page. I will also have some photos available in a few days if you would
like. I am just finishing up my tanks and have no web page but will snail
mail them to you if it would help.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
My fingers are black & smell so I must be sealing tanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
Buster: Loved your listing (story). Exactly why I'm building one. Guess I'll
have to go out and drive a few rivets tonight!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
Hello, I'm seeking information on joystick grips. Was there one on Vans
website a while back that was an 8% scaled down version of an F-4 stick?
Made by a company called Hyperion?
Thank-you,
Norman Hunger
RV6A
nhunger(at)sprint.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: elevator travel |
In a message dated 11/27/98 9:08:33 PM Pacific Standard Time,
glenng(at)megsinet.net writes:
<<
I am in the process of building the elevator control system. The manual
gives a 5 degree variance in the elevator travel maximums. Where should
I place the control stops? At the minimum or maximum travel?
>>
If you set your stops at minumum travel, you`ll still have all the travel you
need. Fred LaForge RV-4 6 hours logged
now ,still fiddling with
rigging...............what fun.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Japundza, Bob" <BJapundza(at)ksmconsulting.com> |
| Subject: | Baffle Fitting Question |
Gary,
I feel your pain, as I am about of the way through the baffling. You must
be a self-masochist!! I think the $175 is well spent in time savings on the
baffling kit. The front areas have the most bends. I'm going to fly with a
friend in his RV-6 tomorrow and many of my own questions should be answered
by looking at his airplane. I should be completely done by Tuesday and will
email you my builder's log pics of the baffles (I have a digital camera.)
Bob Japundza
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Zilik [mailto:zilik(at)bewellnet.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 1998 2:41 AM
To: RV Mailing list
Subject: RV-List: Baffle Fitting Question
--> RV-List message posted by - mailto:>
Fellow Builders,
Does anybody out there have any pictures, drawings, or
instructions on
how the engine baffling goes together. I have made mine from
scratch
from the included plans and have questions on how the front
inlet
floors, inlet sides and front center baffle all fit
together. The
instructions in the manual say that most builders buy the
kit from Van's
and there are not enough pictures showing the details I
need. What great
instructions! Why do I even bother to read the manual.
Thanks in Advance
Gary Zilik - Baffled
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglass Gear Fairings; RV-8 |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
In getting ready to install the gear fairings on the RV-8, I am trying
to decide whether to just epoxy them at the trailing edge for a permanent
and light installation, or to use the hinge material with removeable pin
that is included with the fairings from Vans. Tracy Saylor, who is very
knowledgable on these fairings, says to glass them, because the rivets
eventually start tearing through the fiberglass and looking ugly. I tend
to agree, but wonder about the problem of not being able to get access to
the gear leg or the brake line that goes down it, if I permanently glass
these fairings on. Your experiences and tips are welcome.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Fitting Question |
Gary,
Tony Bingelis published an excellent detailed set of articles on Baffling a
Lycoming in the Oct. & Nov. 1986 issues of Sport Aviation. He has published
other articles on the subject as well.
These articles helped me a good deal.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Installing O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglassing Windshield-RV-8 |
>
>Scott,
>
>
>Would this method work for a -4 (of course the fiberglass would not be
>permanently attached to the metal)???
>
Yes it could be done on a -4, and you could even install in permanently
if you wanted. You could blend it into the upper flange of the side
skirts.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6A Main Gear Tow In |
writes:
>
>Listers,
>
>I'm in the middle of installing my RV-6AQ's wheel fairings, and I
>noticed that both my main wheels toe in slightly when the plane is on
>jacks (gear off the floor entirely). The manual says there should be
>no
>toe in.
>
Not sure what part of the manual you read that in, but the plans sheets
(don't remember DWG #"s) describe setting tow in and show how to check
it.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Fitting Question |
>Does anybody out there have any pictures, drawings, or instructions on
>how the engine baffling goes together. I have made mine from scratch
>from the included plans and have questions on how the front inlet
>floors, inlet sides and front center baffle all fit together. The
>instructions in the manual say that most builders buy the kit from
>Van's
>and there are not enough pictures showing the details I need. What
>great
>instructions! Why do I even bother to read the manual.
>
Gary,
You can't blame Van for having a great marketing strategy. :-)
If you choose to be a true "build it your self" home builder, you have to
expect to be a little innovative.
Get a hold of the set of instructions that come with the baffle kit, from
someone in your area. They will probably answer most of the questions
that you would have.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Flop tube in a QB |
I'm going to be starting my RV-8 quickbuild wings in the next few weeks
(skipped over them because of the accident), and I was wondering if anyone
out there has installed a flop tube in a QB? I'm not even sure if there is
going to be a problem or not. I'd like to hear from anyone who has.
Thanks,
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Baffle Fitting Question |
For what it's worth, I have talked to 3 builders who made their own baffles,
and all 3 said "get the kit, it's just not worth the trouble."
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Sealed Baffle Chamber |
How did Tracy Saylor (and others) make the round inlet ports on the front of
the cowl? What size diameter can they be made at when using a sealed baffle
chamber? Is there a speed advantage to this system and would it be worth the
extra hassle to build?
Norman Hunger
RV6A
Delta, BC
nhunger(at)sprint.ca
________________________________________________________________________________
HOW MUCH WOULD A RADIO RUN FOR A 6A???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Air Dryer and tool tips. |
Air tool basics
Over the years I have learned some basic do's and don'ts of air tool
use.
Don't use an automatic oiler. These units supply more oil than necessary
to the tools and the constant flow of oil must exit someplace, usually
out of the tools exhaust and onto the work piece. This is ok for Joe's
Garage, but not for your future Grand Champion.
Do oil your tools with two to three drops of air tool oil at the
beginning of each work session. If drilling lots of holes, like wing
skins, stop every hundred or so holes and add a couple more drops of oil
to the tool. When done for the day add two more drops and then run the
tool for 1 second. This assures that the tool will not rust up by
morning.
Don't use any old oil. Nothing but air tool oil should be used in air
tools. Definitely do not use 10W-30 or Phillips XC. Oils of this type
will eventually gum up the insides and the tool will only fart when the
trigger is pulled.
Do use air tool oil.
Never, never, never use an air hose that has been attached to an
automatic oiler when painting. Residual oil left in the hose will
guarantee fisheyes on your Grand Champions top coat.
For painting, do use a desiccant air dryer in line with the gun. This is
only effective in moderate humidity (<25%).
Have you ever notice that during a long drilling session that the drill
keeps spitting water on your plane or that the splice midway in your air
hose is leaking water like a garden hose. The water trap at the
compressor is empty, what the heck is going on. The problem is that the
water trap will only trap condensed moisture. Most traps are installed
within a few feet, or inches, of the compressor. This close proximity to
the compressed air source feeds the trap with warm (sometimes hot)
compressed air containing lots of moisture. This hot moisture laden air
passes through the water trap and slowly cools as it passes down the air
hose causing the moisture to condenses back to liquid water and spit out
the tools exhaust.
To combat this I have a crude homemade refrigerated dryer that works
real well.
I used a 5 gallon bucket and a placed a 15 foot coil of 3/8 inch soft
copper tube inside. The tube
exits at the top and bottom through holes drilled in the bucket sides
and sealed with RTV. The tube exiting the bottom of the bucket is
fitted with a male quick disconnect ( the inlet) and the top tube has a
gascolater type water separator followed by a female quick connect. Fill
the bucket with water and ice and you have a very effective dryer as the
water will condense in the copper tubes and be collected in the
collator. I use frozen gallon milk jugs for ice and throw the jug in the
bucket. When done painting put the jug back in the freezer. A desiccant
filter is used at the gun (when painting) for residual moisture
protection. I have found that for normal operations there is no need for
the ice in the bucket. Just the room temperature water (65 degrees) in
the bucket is enough to condense the water.
Even here in Colorado at 8500 ft. (low humidity) I have had to drain the
water trap more than once during marathon drilling sessions.
Hope this helps.
Gary Zilik RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Another RV-6 into the sky.... |
Hello Listers,
I just have to grin, excuse me...
Today, I was finally able to find enough blue sky, here in Seattle area,
for a 40 nminute initial flight. No surprises, it flew as advertised;
delightfully so. What a "Kick in the pants."
RV-6 Quickbuild, 0-360-A1A new from Van's....build time 3 years with
2800hrs including building own empenage.
Most ornery part of the project; the canopy and windshield. I spent two
hard working months alone on that. And that was even worth it.
I think I'll keep it...!
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q Seattle area FLYING, FLYING.....FLYING!!!!!!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Holman" <bholman(at)fullcomp.com.au> |
Moe, is there some way to have ICQ on your system without it opening itself
up every time you log on to the server. I had it on for a while but this
got to me and I deleted it. Also is ther some way my name can be deleted
from the joke I sent you and you put on your page. PLEEEEAAAAASE. No more
jokes till you do !! Cheers, Brian
----------
> From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ICQ
> Date: Saturday, November 28, 1998 9:49 AM
>
>
> Send me your ICQ # Vince. If you are online from 8-11 Eastern time, we
will
> invite you in. It's not a "room", it's just a group of people, you either
> have to be invited in, or invite somebody else to chat with you. A
current
> list of builders using the program can be found on my website.
>
> Regulars include Al Mojzisik, Doug Ronzendaal, Bruce Stobbe, Charlie
Kuss,
> Jeff Orear, Chet Razer, Jim Nice, Peter Winter, and a few other Aussie
> builders.
>
> Moe Colontonio
> moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
> Check out my RV-8 Page at:
> http://tabshred.com/moe
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: V. E. Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 1998 8:00 PM
> Subject: RV-List: ICQ
>
>
> >
> >In the past several of you have mentioned an ICQ RV chat room. I have
ICQ
> >on my system but have been unable to find the chat room. Can anyone
offer
> >any assistance, advise, direction, HELP?
> >
> >Vince
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ERemmers(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Pointer Phone Number |
Need international phone (or fax) number for Pointer company (fabricating
ELTs), maybe in Tempe, AZ.
1-800-number doesn't work from here.
Company is not in the yellow pages.
Any ideas?
Enno Remmers
Cologne/Germany
RV-8 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
Brian,
Before opening your web browser, simply right click on the yellow ICQ
icon found in the lower right corner of your screen. Choose DISABLE.
That will stop ICQ from opening. If you choose later to go onto ICQ,
simply double click on the icon. That will start ICQ.
Charlie Kuss
> Moe, is there some way to have ICQ on your system without it opening itself
> up every time you log on to the server. I had it on for a while but this
> got to me and I deleted it. Also is ther some way my name can be deleted
> from the joke I sent you and you put on your page. PLEEEEAAAAASE. No more
> jokes till you do !! Cheers, Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Dryer and tool tips. |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Date: Sunday, November 29, 1998 1:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: Air Dryer and tool tips.
>
>This hot moisture laden air
>passes through the water trap and slowly cools as it passes down the air
>hose causing the moisture to condenses back to liquid water and spit out
>the tools exhaust.
>
>To combat this I have a crude homemade refrigerated dryer that works
>real well.
>
>I used a 5 gallon bucket and a placed a 15 foot coil of 3/8 inch soft
>copper tube inside.
November 23, 1998 - November 29, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-fx