RV-Archive.digest.vol-fz
December 04, 1998 - December 11, 1998
This puzzled me for longer than it should have. I finally heard it called a
MAP guage as in "manifold absolute pressure". Then I realized that the
automotive manifold vacuum gauge is really "manifold relative pressure" meaning
relative to the ambient pressure - zero. So, when the MAP is 25 inches, a
vacuum gauge would be reading 5 inches.
I'd better shut up before I get myself confused again.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
>
>
> you can use this "feature" of your MP guage to get the local
>altimeter setting before starting the engine somewhere where ATIS is not
>available.
>
Caution, this will only work if you are at sea level. Also, small errors
in the MP gauge will give big errors in your altitude. A half inch error
in the altimeter setting will give you about a 500 ft altitude error.
You are better off setting the altimeter to read the field elevation if no
alitmeter setting is available.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
>> manifold pressure gauge. That prompted a question. Should the
>> gauge show anything above zero when at rest? Mine is showing 30
>> while at rest and has nothing hooked to it, yet.
The real name for manifold pressure is "manifold absolute pressure" or MAP.
It is the absolute pressure (greater than a hard vacuum) inside the intake
manifold. Standard sea-level pressure is 29.92" of mercury so a reading of
30" means you are seeing sea-level air pressure.
During operation with the throttle wide open you should see something close
to the absolute outside pressure, less any losses due to restrictions in
getting the air to the part of the manifold where you are measuring the
pressure. If you close the throttle some, the engine acts as a vacuum pump
and sucks the air out of the intake maifold. That is why MAP decreases as
you close the throttle.
Manifold vacuum guages meaure guage pressure or the difference between
ambient pressure and the pressure inside the manifold. This type of guage
is much cheaper to build.
Your oil pressure guage is usually calibrated in units of PSIG which stands
for "pounds per square inch, guage." It is the difference between the
actual oil pressure and the ambient pressure of the air.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Am I the only one who can't make the F-6111 fit? This is the skin
reinforcement rib used only for the sliding canopy. Looks kinda like a
boomerang. I have searched the archive and found only four messages
(very little help). These two ribs are not even close to fitting. If I
move the lower end of the F-6111 about two inches forward of the F-624 I
could make them fit, but I think that would create a problem later. >>
I used a fluting pliers on mine in certain places to get them to conform
better to the natural skin contour. Keep the bottom lined up with the F-624
as much as possible. A more upright layback angle of the F6111 would be in
order if the skin seems less curved than the F-6111, or the reverse if not.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gar Pessel" <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | aluminum dust hazard? |
I was wondering if anyone knows if aluminum dust and filings are a breathing
hazard. I have been doing quite a bit of work on a qb6 of late. I cut
aluminum with a band saw, shape edges with a belt sander, and smooth with a
scotch brite wheel. This seems to produce significant amounts of aluminum
dust. I have also done some shaping with a small scotch brite wheel on a
die grinder. After such sessions, I sometimes get a real coughing fit at
night, and I wonder if there might be a connection. I get the metallic
taste in my mouth from the aluminum reacting with acids and the gold
fillings to make a small electric current, so I know some of the dust is
getting around, maybe more than I might think. Anyone heard of such a
problem?
Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
Try switching them left and right, mine were marked wrong. All it took
once I switched them right and left was a little twisting and fluting.
Alex Peterson
> Am I the only one who can't make the F-6111 fit? This is the skin
> reinforcement rib used only for the sliding canopy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Green" <dgreen(at)sincom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum dust hazard? |
Some people might classify aluminum dust as a nusience, but more is being known
daily about it. I have worked with aluminum very much on Navy ships because I
am a Shipfitter by trade. The good thing about aluminum is that a standard dust
mask will filter aluminum very effectively. So go to your local hardware store
and buy a few of the disposable ones and keep on building.
Dale Green
RV-6A wannabuild
Gar Pessel wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows if aluminum dust and filings are a breathing
> hazard. I have been doing quite a bit of work on a qb6 of late. I cut
> aluminum with a band saw, shape edges with a belt sander, and smooth with a
> scotch brite wheel. This seems to produce significant amounts of aluminum
> dust. I have also done some shaping with a small scotch brite wheel on a
> die grinder. After such sessions, I sometimes get a real coughing fit at
> night, and I wonder if there might be a connection. I get the metallic
> taste in my mouth from the aluminum reacting with acids and the gold
> fillings to make a small electric current, so I know some of the dust is
> getting around, maybe more than I might think. Anyone heard of such a
> problem?
>
> Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Phoenix, Az visit |
My employer told me to go to Phoenix so I am going to Phoenix. On
Monday and Tuesday of next week (7th and 8th) I will be visiting Bull
Information Systems located in North Phoenix. Bull is located near
Thunderbird and I-17 and so is the hotel I will be staying at. I
would like to spend at least one of my evenings visiting with another
builder to swap stories and builder hints. So if anyone is willing,
please e-mail me a number that I can call when I reach Phoenix.
I am currently in the engine/cowling stages of a 6A slider. My
airframe is compete, but I have no systems installed. It would be a
real bonus if someone is past this point on their 6/6A so that I could
take some pictures, but I am not picky. Any stage of building is fine.
Any airframe is fine.
Gary Zilik
Pine Junction, CO
6A s/n 22993 engine/cowling/baffeling
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: private pilot license question CFR FAR 61.31(K)(2)(iii) |
FAR 61.31 TYPE RATING REQUIREMENTS, ADDITIONAL TRAINING, AND AUTHORIZATION
REQUIREMENTS
(a) Type ratings Required
(b) Authorization in lieu of a type rating
(c) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings:
(d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings:
(e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes
(g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable of
operating at high altitudes.
(h) Additional aircraft type-specific training.
(i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes.
(j) Additional traiining required for operating a glider.
(k) Exceptions.
(1) This section does not require a category and class rating for
aircraft not type
certificated as airplanes, rotocraft, or lighter-than-air-aircraft
or a class
rating for gliders or powered-lifts.
(2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to -
(i) An applicant when taking a practical teest given by an examiner;
(ii) The holder of a student pilot certificate;
(iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an aircraft
under the
authority of an experimental or provisional type certificate;
david faile, fairfield, ct
mcfii/a&p
faa aviation safety counselor
eaa technical counselor/flight advisor
christen eagle ii since '82 (n13bf)
rv6 n44df started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert D. Binzer" <robinzer(at)seidata.com> |
Hi,
Anyone in Nashville, Tenn. have the E-mail Address of Damon Crabtree?
Please respond off-list to:
robinzer(at)seidata.com
Thanks, Bob Binzer, -6a Wings, Madison, IN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
Probably a better way would be to just adjust your altimeter to the field
altitude. It would be more accurate than your manifold guage.
Doug Hormann
empennage
-----Original Message-----
From: Cappucci, Louis <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 2:05 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest
>
>
> you can use this "feature" of your MP guage to get the local
>altimeter setting before starting the engine somewhere where ATIS is not
>available.
>
>> Jim Sears wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Listers,
>> >
>> > As I was working on my panel wiring today, my eyes glanced at the
>> > manifold pressure gauge. That prompted a question. Should the
>> > gauge show anything above zero when at rest? Mine is showing 30
>> > while at rest and has nothing hooked to it, yet. I never noticed it
>> before
>> > and expect it came from the dealer that way. I've been very careful
>> > with the gauges; so, I know it hasn't been dropped or abused. I did
get
>> > it from A/S which leads me to believe that it may be faulty.
>> >
>> > Jim Sears in KY
>> > RV-6A N198JS (Wiring the panel, one wire at a time.)
>> >
>> >
>>
>> It's showing atmospheric pressure; goes lower when the engine's running &
>> throttle is closed & pressure in manifold gets lower.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
Close to ambient pressure is right. Remember Bernoulli! When you get the
air moving through the manifold (and you are moving a lot of air when the
throttle is open!) you'll get a lower pressure reading.
Doug Hormann
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest
>
>>> manifold pressure gauge. That prompted a question. Should the
>>> gauge show anything above zero when at rest? Mine is showing 30
>>> while at rest and has nothing hooked to it, yet.
>
>The real name for manifold pressure is "manifold absolute pressure" or MAP.
> It is the absolute pressure (greater than a hard vacuum) inside the intake
>manifold. Standard sea-level pressure is 29.92" of mercury so a reading of
>30" means you are seeing sea-level air pressure.
>
>During operation with the throttle wide open you should see something close
>to the absolute outside pressure, less any losses due to restrictions in
>getting the air to the part of the manifold where you are measuring the
>pressure. If you close the throttle some, the engine acts as a vacuum pump
>and sucks the air out of the intake maifold. That is why MAP decreases as
>you close the throttle.
>
>Manifold vacuum guages meaure guage pressure or the difference between
>ambient pressure and the pressure inside the manifold. This type of guage
>is much cheaper to build.
>
>Your oil pressure guage is usually calibrated in units of PSIG which stands
>for "pounds per square inch, guage." It is the difference between the
>actual oil pressure and the ambient pressure of the air.
>
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
>http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert P. Busick" <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
In the words of one of the Technical Reps at Van's
"Just Make it Fit"
Do anything, something, even take a break, but don't give up until it fits. It
took me about two weeks of on again off again to get mine to fit. Once they fit,
you often wonder why it was so hard to get them to fit. Must be little Elves
that every so often show up and sprinkle magic dust, because all of a sudden
with no warning, an unfitable part, just fits perfectly.
I wish Van would send those Elves over more often.
Bob Busick
RV-6
Fremont CA
> << Am I the only one who can't make the F-6111 fit? This is the skin
> reinforcement rib used only for the sliding canopy. Looks kinda like a
> boomerang. I have searched the archive and found only four messages
> (very little help). These two ribs are not even close to fitting. If I
> move the lower end of the F-6111 about two inches forward of the F-624 I
> could make them fit, but I think that would create a problem later. >>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Taper Them All? |
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
> >
> >
> The way the wing kits are currently delivered, all of the lightening
> tapers that were approved are done for the builder.
> As far as I know their is no optional lightening work that you can do to
> the wing spar that isn't already done.
> The stiffener strips that you are referring too should be left as they
> are.
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
Hi Scott,
I,m confused!! On plans sheet #13, the pictures of the spars on the top
of the page indicates that the longest spar flange strips(W606-c) can be
tappered. Also, the actual photos of a wing under construction in the
manual shows the W606c with a taper. The pictures are on the 3rd page
of photos that show the black snap rings for the pitot line and some
other views of the nose ribs. The upper left photo shows the end of the
W606c. If there's anyway you can find out for sure, I,d appreciate it.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a "tappered to the max" wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum dust hazard |
>I was wondering if anyone knows if aluminum dust and filings are a breathing
>hazard.
This is in the archives. It was discussed about a year ago and it was
generally decided it was not good for you. Use a mask of some sort. If you
don't, after you finish an evening of aluminum work, blow your nose. Yuck.
Aluminum. Want your lungs to look like that? There is also some speculative
evidence that exposure to aluminum contrubutes to Alzheimer's Disease.
Yikes. Why risk it?
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Air filter maintenance |
>I've got 100 hours on my 6A now and was curious as to the maintenance
>of the air filter.......
>>Be sure and heed the warnings that came with the instructions with the K&N
>>filter in the FAB kit.
>>The biggest no-no is compressed air. It can blow voids or thin spots
>>into the media that you can't see which would severely degrade its
>>filtering ability.
I just recharged mine after 175 hours and I'm not sure it needed it! This is
a really good filter and can take some dirt. I taxi to and from the hanger
on gravel so there is some dust to be filtered.
I got my recharge kit (same part number: 99-5050) from a four wheel drive
performance shop. Using it is easy. Brush off the big stuff (bugs, etc.).
Spray on the soap/cleaner. Let it sit for ten minutes. Hose it off using the
hose with NO NOZZLE. Do NOT use hard blasting water or (as above) compressed
air. Just rinse it off.
Then you apply the oil, of course, using only their oil. It is EASY to use
too much oil. Just apply it to the outter pleats at first and allow 20
minutes for it to soak in. Then look at the element; if there are any white
spots, touch them up. I will do mine at each Conditional Inspection unless
it seems to need it before that.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Year Two....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-number size (was: "private pilot license question") |
Hi Folks,
I've been off the list for a while, so I did an archive search before
responding to this, and didn't see any comments. Sorry if I missed any.
Someone wrote:
>I don't know if this got mentioned before, but doesn't 200+ mph
>require the 12" registration numbers?
According to FAR 45.29(b)(1)(iii) "Marks at least 3 inches high may be
displayed on an aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been
issued....as an amateur-built aircraft when the maximum CRUISING speed of
the aircraft does not exceed 180 KNOTS CALIBRATED AIRSPEED (emphasis
added).
The highest cruise speed listed in my Van's brochure is 210 MPH at 8000"
for the 200hp RV-8 prototype. According to my old, warped whiz-wheel, 210
mph TAS = 183 kts TAS at 8000' on a standard day. 183 kts TAS converts to
about 162 kts CAS. Using these figures, derived on an old CR-5 by an even
older guy, it would appear that we have about 19 knots worth of speed mods
to do before we exceed 180 KCAS and need the big numbers.
Has anyone out there had the FAA insist on large numbers?
Also if interest:
Further along in FAR 45 is the requirement for large numbers, temporary or
permanent, if you penetrate an ADIZ or DEWIZ.
Tim
Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: private pilot license question CFR FAR 61.31(K)(2)(iii) |
This is true, but the bugaboo is the operating limitations on your airplane
have a section that says something to the effect of, "the pilot shall have,
a category/class rating, a type rating, a letter of authorization, or a
flight instructor endorsement, as appropriate."
Some have said that 61.31 lets you off the hook on high perf., complex, or
Tailwheel sign off. If you asked a fed he would say ask in writing. If you
had a wreck they would tell you in writing. My advice is get the
endorsements.
We had this discussion here recently.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
>
>FAR 61.31 TYPE RATING REQUIREMENTS, ADDITIONAL TRAINING, AND AUTHORIZATION
>REQUIREMENTS
>
>(a) Type ratings Required
>(b) Authorization in lieu of a type rating
>(c) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings:
>(d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings:
>(e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes
>(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes
>(g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable
of
>operating at high altitudes.
>(h) Additional aircraft type-specific training.
>(i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes.
>(j) Additional traiining required for operating a glider.
>(k) Exceptions.
> (1) This section does not require a category and class rating for
>aircraft not type
> certificated as airplanes, rotocraft, or
lighter-than-air-aircraft
>or a class
> rating for gliders or powered-lifts.
> (2) The rating limitations of this section do not apply to -
> (i) An applicant when taking a practical teest given by an
examiner;
> (ii) The holder of a student pilot certificate;
> (iii) The holder of a pilot certificate when operating an
aircraft
>under the
> authority of an experimental or provisional type
certificate;
>
>david faile, fairfield, ct
>mcfii/a&p
>faa aviation safety counselor
>eaa technical counselor/flight advisor
>christen eagle ii since '82 (n13bf)
>rv6 n44df started
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb / FI Heat |
Hi Kevin,
I thought that Cessna was going to use fuel injection in their new
planes. If thats the case, I don't think you need any carb heat.
Bill Jaugilas
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
> >I just got back from Flying a new C-172 that has an IO-360. This plane does
> >not have any selector for alternate air or heat. Do the new C-172's have an
> >automatic alternate heated air source? From the previous posts it seems like
> >the FAR's would require heat.
> >
> >Rob Hickman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | aluminum dust hazard? |
Aluminium dust is also a fire hazard, similar to magnesium, and once
lit is very hard to put out as it generates hydrogen when hit with
water. So sweep it up and keep your workshop clean.
P.S. Aluminium has been implicated as a possible cause of Alzheimer's
Disease and definitely causes similar symptoms when ingested in
quantity.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: aluminum dust hazard?
Date: 04-12-98 17:45
Some people might classify aluminum dust as a nusience, but more is being known
daily about it. I have worked with aluminum very much on Navy ships because I
am a Shipfitter by trade. The good thing about aluminum is that a standard dust
mask will filter aluminum very effectively. So go to your local hardware store
and buy a few of the disposable ones and keep on building.
Dale Green
RV-6A wannabuild
Gar Pessel wrote:
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows if aluminum dust and filings are a breathing
> hazard. I have been doing quite a bit of work on a qb6 of late. I cut
> aluminum with a band saw, shape edges with a belt sander, and smooth with a
> scotch brite wheel. This seems to produce significant amounts of aluminum
> dust. I have also done some shaping with a small scotch brite wheel on a
> die grinder. After such sessions, I sometimes get a real coughing fit at
> night, and I wonder if there might be a connection. I get the metallic
> taste in my mouth from the aluminum reacting with acids and the gold
> fillings to make a small electric current, so I know some of the dust is
> getting around, maybe more than I might think. Anyone heard of such a
> problem?
>
> Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "pdsmith" <pdsmith(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Free Standing Jigs |
You can usually order laminated products such as microllam or parallam at a
good lumber store. It's often expensive & tends to come in inconvenient
sizes which have to be ripped to the desired size however. I simply bought a
sheet of good quality 5/8 ply and had the store rip it into the pieces
necessary to build a box beam crossmember for the wing/tail jig. Then you
glue and clamp it together - you can make a few "ribs" to stabilize the
inside of the 4 x 4 beam. Some one gave me the tip of using a light coat of
varathane oil - (not the liquid plastic varathane), which disappears into
the wood but helps moisture proof it greatly. The jig hasn't moved or warped
even a tenth of a degree in my hangar.
The Jignoramus
(Phil Smith)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
Hello listers:
I'm building an 6-a.
Would anyone be able to tell me if I could succesfully install and use a
Century Flight Systems inc. AK430 (wing leveler)model 52d75-3 ser.no. 4556-e?.
This unit is out of a Piper PA-28 (mid seventies era)
The system consists of a panel mounted 3" dia turn and bank unit (blue
mask), a made up (operational) relay box, the interconnecting wiring harness
and the aileron (roll)servo unit model 1C363-1-306R.
The system is bench tested (fully opperational and the original paperwork
and manual etc. came with it.
The overall weight is seven lb.
I'm unsure if the servo roll rate will be suitable to an RV6. I've been told
by one person that these units are designed to match specific airframe
characteristics and will not besuitable for my RV6-a. the warning implied
that the RV would most likely over correct roll wise and or it might correct
roll in a jerky unpleasant possibly unsafe way. I was also told that this
was not an adjustable or (easily correctable by me)condition.
It would be great If this unit is suitable. If any of you can help me on
this please email jjewell(at)okanagan.net
If it turns out to be unsuitable the unit wiil be offered for sale.
jim Kelowna B.C. RV6-eh Top skins left wing done
When dreams come true the sky is the limit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
>This puzzled me for longer than it should have. I finally heard it
>called a MAP guage as in "manifold absolute pressure". Then I
>realized that the automotive manifold vacuum gauge is really
>"manifold relative pressure" meaning relative to the ambient
>pressure - zero. So, when the MAP is 25 inches, a vacuum gauge
>would be reading 5 inches.
This sure makes sense to me. Having owned a Mitsubishi Turbo
Eclipse and currently own a Ford Probe GT with turbo, I thought the
manifold pressure should read zero until power is supplied. Now that
I know it's a barometer and we work in negative pressures using a
normal barometer, it makes sense that it would start at about 30 and
work backwards. To me, the automotive type would be so much
easier.
>I'd better shut up before I get myself confused again.
That makes two of us. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum dust hazard? |
I wear a dust mask whenever I do any heavy sanding or grinding, and try to keep
my
shop vacuumed up. I have this handy little vacuum that attaches to my air line
and
runs off of compressed air. Brown Tool has them on sale for $20. Beats the hell
outa
breaking out the shop vac for small jobs.
Moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Gesele <sgesele(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
>This sure makes sense to me. Having owned a Mitsubishi Turbo
>Eclipse and currently own a Ford Probe GT with turbo, I thought the
>manifold pressure should read zero until power is supplied. Now that
>I know it's a barometer and we work in negative pressures using a
>normal barometer, it makes sense that it would start at about 30 and
>work backwards. To me, the automotive type would be so much
>easier.
>
A manifold gauge does not work backwards after the engine starts. For those
who haven't yet used a MAP, here is a typical flight:
Preflight, get into cockpit, organize cockpit - MAP reads barometric
pressure (around 30" at sea level, standard atmosphere)
Start engine - MAP drops to around 12-14"
Taxi - Around 12-14"
Takeoff - MAP increases with power to around 27-28" (without a turbo
charger, it will be less than with the engine off)
Climb - without a throttle position change, it will drop around 1" per
thousand (ambient pressure is dropping)
Cruise - around 19-26", depending on how much fuel you want to burn and how
high you are.
Descent - will increase at 1" per thousand without a throttle change.
Enter pattern - around 10" during deceleration, then around 12-14"
Shut down engine - MAP jumps back up to 30"
This thing about it starting at 30", then dropping was a little confusing to
me at first. After using one once, it made complete sense.
Hope this helps.
Scott Gesele N506RV -Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
Gary-
I called El Reno Aviation and got multiple listing for various engines in
two days. They even sent listings for mags, carbs, starter, alternator, and
other parts. I have a O-290G engine looking for some O290D/O320 parts, and
they even had a complete 4 page parts listing for the O-290G! I recommend
to everyone to give them a call to get the parts lists even if you don't
necessarily need it right now, they are great parts lists/references for
anyone needing part numbers etc.
Thanks.
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45 (finishing spar mod left wing)
?Oldest unfinished RV in existence? :
)
Socorro, NM 87801
reece(at)rt66.com
> Call El Reno Aviation
> 1004 South Country Club Road
> P.O. Box 760
> El Reno, OK 73036
> 1 (800) 521-0333
>
> Ask for their FREE price list for Lycoming engines. They should be
> able to help you over the phone with a new or used parts with the info
> you listed.
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
> Flying in So. CA, USA
> RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
>
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator pulley size |
>>Power input is equal to power ouput less losses in the device.
>Oops. Shouldn't that be a "plus" rather than a "less"?
You are correct. Thanks!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Transponder/Encoder Problem |
I have been testing all my wiring before disassembly and painting. I've run
across a problem (I think) with my blind encoder and I'm looking for help.
I have a King KT-76C with an ACK blind encoder. I bought them new from
Van's and they provided the wiring harness between the two units. When
I turn my transponder to ALT all I get is "---" in the altitude window.
I assume that it should read "007" which is my field altitude at 29.92".
I've verified that I have continiuty on each wire between the back of
the transponder and the 12 pin connector into the encoder. I've also
verified that I have 12 volts at the 12 pin connector. I've also verified
that the connectors from the transponder are in the right positions
(e.g.-position M on transponder goes to pin 2 on encoder and so on).
I can only deduce that the encoder is not working or I need to "enable"
it in some manner. All functions on the transponder appear to be
working normally. On Monday, I will take the encoder to my local
avionics shop to have it tested.
Has anyone else had a similiar problem? Am I missing something
obvious? Any help would be appreciated. This is my last
wiring gremlin to fix prior to disassembly and interior paint.
Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
RV-6 Final Wiring and then on to the paint shop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com> |
Folks,
I'll be visiting one of my (companies) customers in Omaha, NB from
the 11th through the 15th of Dec.
Anyone in that area with a RV6A (any stage - though I still haven't
had a ride) that would like a visitor for a few hours please let me
know directly so we can get together next weekend.
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
RV6A Emp
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Irwin" <erici(at)mcs.com> |
| Subject: | Considering purchasing/building an RV6 or 6A |
Hi list. I am trying to decide if I would like to build an airplane...in
particular, a RV6 or 6A. I have ordered and received the information packet
and video, I have visited all or most of the GREAT informative web sites
that many of you have put together, and I have been lurking here on the list
for a few weeks.
Before making a big financial and time committment I'd like to visit at
least one local builder and see his or her project. I'd also like to go for
a short flight in an RV (preferably 6 or 6A) which would mean either
visiting Van's in Oregon or finding one of you fine folks in my area who
might be willing to take me for a ride. If anyone can help me out here,
please let me know...I'd sure appreciate it.
Oh yeah...it would probably help if I told you where I am. I live in
Chicago.
One more thing...I saw in the list archives some messages about a Chicago
area builders group that meets at Clow on Fridays for lunch. Does anyone
have any more info about this group and do they ever meet on weekends or in
the evening?
Thanks.
Eric Irwin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Air filter maintenance |
Listers:
Others have done a very good job describing the cleaning process. I will add
that the manufacturer cautions against unnecessary cleaning (as would be the
case at an annual). The filter actually becomes more efficient as it gets
dirty, up to a point. In tarnsferring the auto equivelent (30,000-50,000
miles!) to the a/c environment, it looks like 500 hrs would be a good
interval, and MAYBE 300 or so in a very dusty environment.
You will wear the filter out by simply cleaning it, if done too often. This
looks like a lifetime part if treated properly. Whoda thunk it?
Check six!
Mark
HR2 301 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com> |
Ken Harrill wrote:
> Am I the only one who can't make the F-6111 fit? This is the skin
> reinforcement rib used only for the sliding canopy. Looks kinda like a
> boomerang. I have searched the archive and found only four messages
> (very little help). These two ribs are not even close to fitting. If I
> move the lower end of the F-6111 about two inches forward of the F-624 I
> could make them fit, but I think that would create a problem later.
>
> What's the secret? Any help would be appreciated.
The secret is that you have to twist it. Grab an end with each hand and
simply twist it. You will have to move it around to find where it fits
the best with the bottom forward and top rearward. You do not have to
flute but you may have to trim the ends a little. Don't try to make it
fit at some distance from the front cut edge, it will vary as long its
length with the top being closer to the edge then the bottom. Let the
carma guide you, it will work.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder/Encoder Problem |
<< I have been testing all my wiring before disassembly and painting. I've
run
across a problem (I think) with my blind encoder and I'm looking for help.
I have a King KT-76C with an ACK blind encoder. I bought them new from
Van's and they provided the wiring harness between the two units. When
I turn my transponder to ALT all I get is "---" in the altitude window.
I assume that it should read "007" which is my field altitude at 29.92".
I've verified that I have continuity on each wire between the back of
the transponder and the 12 pin connector into the encoder. I've also
verified that I have 12 volts at the 12 pin connector. I've also verified
that the connectors from the transponder are in the right positions
(e.g.-position M on transponder goes to pin 2 on encoder and so on).
I can only deduce that the encoder is not working or I need to "enable"
it in some manner. All functions on the transponder appear to be
working normally. On Monday, I will take the encoder to my local
avionics shop to have it tested.
Has anyone else had a similar problem? Am I missing something
obvious? >>
Before you do anything rash, check this out. It take up to 5 or 10 minutes of
power on for many encoders to initialize, stabilize and then start sending
altitude information.
I experience it on my GPS/Com in the same way. When it first comes up, it
gripes that no altitude information is being received and I have to
acknowledge it and move on. When it finally does come up several minutes
later, it works fine. I can also turn the Xponder on about 7 minutes in
advance, then bring the GPS/Com online and not get the gripe. Turn your
system on and leave it on for about ten minutes and see if it doesn't come up
in due time.
I assume that you have completely continuity checked the harness. I was
disappointed at the poor quality of Van's harnessing at the time (this was 2.5
years ago and they have no doubt improved significantly) and ended up redoing
it myself. Some wires were broken as a result of their policy of poorly
crimping and then soldering the contact terminations.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Considering purchasing/building an RV6 or 6A |
Our EAA Chapter 75 has several RV building plus Lyle Hefel of Dubuque, Iowa
just finished his second RV. It is a prize winning RV-8. Boone Iowa also
has an active RV group and a flyin. Lyle's number is 319-583-4657.
-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Irwin <erici(at)mcs.com>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 11:42 AM
Subject: RV-List: Considering purchasing/building an RV6 or 6A
>
>Hi list. I am trying to decide if I would like to build an airplane...in
>particular, a RV6 or 6A. I have ordered and received the information
packet
>and video, I have visited all or most of the GREAT informative web sites
>that many of you have put together, and I have been lurking here on the
list
>for a few weeks.
>
>Before making a big financial and time committment I'd like to visit at
>least one local builder and see his or her project. I'd also like to go
for
>a short flight in an RV (preferably 6 or 6A) which would mean either
>visiting Van's in Oregon or finding one of you fine folks in my area who
>might be willing to take me for a ride. If anyone can help me out here,
>please let me know...I'd sure appreciate it.
>
>Oh yeah...it would probably help if I told you where I am. I live in
>Chicago.
>
>One more thing...I saw in the list archives some messages about a Chicago
>area builders group that meets at Clow on Fridays for lunch. Does anyone
>have any more info about this group and do they ever meet on weekends or in
>the evening?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Eric Irwin
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
If you've forgotten, the F-665 is the hex rod w/ rod ends on it which connects
the two sticks in an RV-6...
My problem is that it is too long, even with both of the rod ends run all the
way in. This causes the control sticks to splay inward. I probably need to
"shrink" the F-665 another 1/4". Is there a trap here that I'm missing,
or can I just grind 1/8" inch off of the threaded end of each of the rod end
bearings to make it work?
Thanks,
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sam James Cowl |
Norm-Call Sam James he can answer your questions
Tom RV8
TIO540SIAD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | fuel tank bracket-rv-4 |
I am mounting the wings to my -4, and would like to use flat aluminum sheet
for the intersection fairing. The problem is, when I went to build the
bracket that attaches the fuel tank to the fuselage, it is going to end up
below the fairing where it bolts to the lower angle. I have seen some 4s with
flat fairings that do not have anything sticking out in the breeze. Can anyone
who has done this help me out?
I seem to be having a lot of trouble getting things to fit together lately.
Is this normal?
Done complaining now;
Pat Allender
Still summer in Iowa- so far
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Irwin" <erici(at)mcs.com> |
| Subject: | Considering purchasing/building an RV6 or 6A |
Thanks so much for getting back to me.
I just looked at my sectional and it looks like Dubuque is about 125NM away
from Waukegan (I belond to a flying club there). I can't find Boone on my
sectional. I'm going to see if any nearby builders contact me and if so it
will be easier for me to visit them. If not, I may give Lyle a call (who
knows...I may give him a call anyway...it could give me somewhere to fly to
in one of my clubs 172's).
Eric
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley
> Sent: Saturday, December 05, 1998 12:10 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Considering purchasing/building an RV6 or 6A
>
>
> Our EAA Chapter 75 has several RV building plus Lyle Hefel of
> Dubuque, Iowa
> just finished his second RV. It is a prize winning RV-8. Boone Iowa also
> has an active RV group and a flyin. Lyle's number is 319-583-4657.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Irwin <erici(at)mcs.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 11:42 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Considering purchasing/building an RV6 or 6A
>
>
> >
> >Hi list. I am trying to decide if I would like to build an airplane...in
> >particular, a RV6 or 6A. I have ordered and received the information
> packet
> >and video, I have visited all or most of the GREAT informative web sites
> >that many of you have put together, and I have been lurking here on the
> list
> >for a few weeks.
> >
> >Before making a big financial and time committment I'd like to visit at
> >least one local builder and see his or her project. I'd also like to go
> for
> >a short flight in an RV (preferably 6 or 6A) which would mean either
> >visiting Van's in Oregon or finding one of you fine folks in my area who
> >might be willing to take me for a ride. If anyone can help me out here,
> >please let me know...I'd sure appreciate it.
> >
> >Oh yeah...it would probably help if I told you where I am. I live in
> >Chicago.
> >
> >One more thing...I saw in the list archives some messages about a Chicago
> >area builders group that meets at Clow on Fridays for lunch. Does anyone
> >have any more info about this group and do they ever meet on
> weekends or in
> >the evening?
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Eric Irwin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Caldwell" <racaldwell(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello Ken,
This is what I did to make the F-6111 ribs fit. The rib flanges that
mate with the skin come 90 deg to the rib web. I bent the flanges , 90
deg. at the bottom and > 90 deg. toward the top. Bingo, the ribs fit
just right now.
Rick Caldwell
RV-6 Baffles & cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bakerje(at)Juno.com (Jim Baker) |
I purchased a VAL Radio from VAL several years ago and installed in my
Cherokee 140. It is still in the aircraft and works GREAT! When you
turn it on the flip flop frequencies are 121.9 on one and 121.7 on the
other.
I have a friend that put one in his Mooney and after flying with it for
several years decided he needed a little better quality radio and a VOR,
he had a KING installed (not sure of the model), but between the two of
them side by side the VAL sounded better. The VAL also has automatic
squelch.
The only thing that I would like, would be able to adjust the standby
frequency instead of the active, it was no big deal as long as you
planned ahead. My normal radio operation would be to change the second
frequency (121.7) to 126.5 ATIS, then after getting all the information,
I would change this frequency to the Tower frequency 118.5, this could be
done without looking because the frequency would bottom out. Then I would
flip to the other 121.9, Ground control. The Radio will not go around the
frequency range, only up and down. In other words it stops at 118. or
136.
My normal operating drill,
ACTIVE
STDBY
121.9
121.7 as it was first turned on.
121.7
121.9 after the first flip
126.5
121.9 adjusted to ATIS
118.5
121.9 adjusted to Tower
121.9
118.5 flipped to ground
The last flip would be to Tower or before leaving the tower frequency
change to Center so you would always be adjusting not the next frequency
needed but two ahead.
Looks more difficult after writing it all out than it really is!!!!!
It is a good radio, n'of said.
Jim Baker RV-4 "Fuselage kit for Christmas"
bakerje(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder/Encoder Problem |
In a message dated 12/5/98 10:05:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, Vanremog(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Some wires were broken as a result of their policy of poorly
crimping and then soldering the contact terminations. >>
YIKES
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Scott Gesele wrote:
>
> A manifold gauge does not work backwards after the engine starts. For those
> who haven't yet used a MAP, here is a typical flight:
>
> ...
> This thing about it starting at 30", then dropping was a little confusing to
> me at first. After using one once, it made complete sense.
I think of MAP as a sort-of power guage. Something near 30" is going to
get me around 100% power and it works backward from there. 21" will get
me around 70% power, etc. Sure this is oversimplified because altitude
(lower back-pressure on the exhaust) and RPM factor into the calculation
too but all other things being equal, MAP is your poor-man's percent power
guage.
Lycoming has a really good percent-of-power nomograph in the engine
operator's manual. It does a really good job of showing the relationship
between MAP, RPM, temperature, and ambient pressure on engine power
output.
You know, it would be pretty easy to make a percent-power guage from the
aforementioned 4 parameters. (Hello Matt!)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder/Encoder Problem |
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Randy Pflanzer wrote:
>
>
> I can only deduce that the encoder is not working or I need to "enable"
> it in some manner. All functions on the transponder appear to be
> working normally. On Monday, I will take the encoder to my local
> avionics shop to have it tested.
Gary mentioned that the encoder needs to warm up (solid-state type of
encoder -- the old mechanical blind encoders don't have the problem).
Also some encoders have an output-enable signal required by some
transponders. In most cases you have to tie this pin to ground to enable
the output of the encoder all the time. Some transponders only want
output from the encoder at certain times so the transponder grounds the
encoders output enable pin when it wants to read the altitude.
The pin may be called "output enable" or "strobe". Check the footnotes on
the wiring drawing for your encoder and transponder to see what they
expect.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: wing leveler |
On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, jim jewell wrote:
>
> I'm unsure if the servo roll rate will be suitable to an RV6. I've been told
> by one person that these units are designed to match specific airframe
> characteristics and will not besuitable for my RV6-a. the warning implied
> that the RV would most likely over correct roll wise and or it might correct
> roll in a jerky unpleasant possibly unsafe way. I was also told that this
> was not an adjustable or (easily correctable by me)condition.
You are right in that the autopilot should be matched to the
characteristics of the aircraft. The autopilot, airframe, gyro
combination forms a feedback system. If the aircraft rolls
faster than the autopilot is tuned for or faster than the servo can
respond you will get overshoot, i.e. roll byond the desired bank angle
with the autopilot correcting back and forth, hopefully converging on the
commanded bank angle. In really nasty cases the system can become
unstable with the oscillation increasing in amplitude rather than damping
out.
Fortunately most modern autopilots have adjustable gain, damping, and slew
rate (how fast it can move the stick) to allow it to be tuned to a
particluar aircraft. I would want to talk to the autopilot manufacturer
and ask about the range of the settings and a "safe" initial
configuration before I flipped the "on" switch in flight.
On the other hand, it could be fun to just see what happens. ;
)
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank bracket-rv-4 |
Pat,
Can't imagine how the tank bracket can extend below
the tank? Shouldn't even come close to protruding.
I have never seen a RV4 where it did!
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder/Encoder Problem |
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 9:13 AM
Subject: RV-List: Transponder/Encoder Problem
When
>I turn my transponder to ALT all I get is "---" in the altitude window.
>I assume that it should read "007" which is my field altitude at 29.92".
>
Somewhere in the back of my mind I find this foggy memory that blind
encoders are accurate only to 20 or 50 feet or some such. Is it possible
that the indication you are getting is appropriate for a field elevation of
7'?
Don't put any stock in this unless someone who knows confirms it.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOOREWAR(at)aol.com |
Noticed that the panel on my rv-4 is tilted forward. Do I need to order a
special atitude indicator to compensate for this?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca> |
If you are ordering new instruments, I would order one, however I don't
think it is completely necessary, I have a atitude indicator out of a C150
in my four and it seems to work ok. I don't think the 150 panel has a tilt.
Joe Hine
C-FYTQ RV4
>
>Noticed that the panel on my rv-4 is tilted forward. Do I need to order a
>special atitude indicator to compensate for this?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Mine was too long, too. I cut it with a hacksaw, then smoothed the end.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A fuselage top skins
-----Original Message-----
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com [mailto:KBoatri144(at)aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 1998 1:53 PM
To: Rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: F-665 Length
If you've forgotten, the F-665 is the hex rod w/ rod ends on
it which connects
the two sticks in an RV-6...
My problem is that it is too long, even with both of the rod
ends run all the
way in. This causes the control sticks to splay inward.
I probably need to
"shrink" the F-665 another 1/4". Is there a trap here
that I'm missing,
or can I just grind 1/8" inch off of the threaded end of
each of the rod end
bearings to make it work?
Thanks,
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DShultzroe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Taper Them All? |
Hi Jerry,
I too was confused by the plans and what the manual showed on tappering the
1/8" spar flange. When I began to loose sleep over this, I figured a call to
vans was in
order. I don't remember who it was I talked too, but I was told that this was
pretty
much up to the builder. The purpose of tappering is weight reduction and with
the 1/8" thickness you are not gaining much. [I did taper mine] If I were to
do it again,
I would just do it per plans and trim the ends just to save time.
Warren RV--4 wing spars done
Erie, co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Robbins" <robm(at)am2.com> |
| Subject: | Help Terra Altitude Encoder Pinout |
I'm trying to locate a pinout for a terra encoder. I think my 7 year old
lost mine last time she did an installation!!!
Reply off list.
Thanks in advance,
Mitch Robbins
http://www.am2.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder/Encoder Problem |
> I have a King KT-76C with an ACK blind encoder. I bought them new from
> Van's and they provided the wiring harness between the two units. When
> I turn my transponder to ALT all I get is "---" in the altitude window.
> I assume that it should read "007" which is my field altitude at 29.92".
I too have the King KT-76C that I bought from Van's with an Ameri-King
encoder. It takes a few minutes for the encoder to initialize, and output
altitude information. I also get a "No altitude input" message from my GPS
until the encoder starts to work. I really like the 76C, the pushbuttons are
so much easier than the standard twist knobs!
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Broken Arrow, OK
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sam Richards" <samav8(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Wing/ Empenage Jig |
>From owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Sun Nov 22 18:52:01 1998
> by matronics.com (8.8.8/Matronics-1.2) id SAA07079
>Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19981123134756.006a1184(at)lis.net.au>
>X-Sender: todd(at)lis.net.au
>Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 13:47:56 +1100
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>From: Todd Lattimer <todd(at)lis.net.au>
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Wing/ Empenage Jig
>In-Reply-To: <19981122.202821.3750.1.rvpilot(at)juno.com>
>Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I have just ordered my RV8 Empenage and wing kit!! :)
>What i would like to do while the kit is in transit is get started on
>building the empenage and wing jigs.
>Are they the same as the RV4/6 jigs? and is there anywhere on the net
that
>outlines how to build them? As i would like to get stuck into acutally
>buildinf the kit as soon as it arrives.
>
>cheers
>Todd
>
>Hi Todd, Glad to hear you've made the big step. I don't know the
particulars of the RV-8 jig. I'm sure you've received info in bulk
by now. Just make sure you have plenty of light; as much space as
possible around the jig(s) and power and air at hand. I bought a
small 3 tiered tool trolley to cart tools and parts to the various
work areas. Keep in touch. Best regards, Sam
>
>
> +--
--+
> | Visit the Matronics & RV-List Web Sites at
http://www.matronics.com |
> | ---
|
> | To [un]subscribe from the RV-List, email
"rv-list-request(at)matronics.com" |
> | & put the word "[un]subscribe" in the *body*. No other text or
subject. |
> | ---
|
> | Please aggressively edit quoted text on a followup posting!
|
> +--
--+
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help Terra Altitude Encoder Pinout |
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998, Mitch Robbins wrote:
>
> I'm trying to locate a pinout for a terra encoder. I think my 7 year old
> lost mine last time she did an installation!!!
> Reply off list.
pin function
2 A1
3 A2
4 A4
5 B1
9 B2
10 B4
11 C1
12 C4
13 C2
6 strobe
8 aux heater power 11-33 VDC @ 1A
14 switched power in
15 ground
If the transponder provides a strobe or output enable, connect it to pin
6. If the transponder doesn't need strobe, and the Terra TRT250 doesn't,
ground pin 6 to pin 15.
Pin 8 doesn't need to be connected but you can shorten warm-up time by
applying power to pin 8 to run the internal heater even though power
hasn't yet been applied to pin 14. I didn't do this in my installation so
I have to turn on the transponder to get the encoder to warm up. What I
didn't realize is that the TRT-250 doesn't have a standby position so I
have to turn the transponder on and have it squawking on the ground in
order to get the encoder to warm up. This isn't a really big deal but I
will probably add the heater power sometime in the future to eliminate
this minor annoyance.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
On Sat, 5 Dec 1998 MOOREWAR(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Noticed that the panel on my rv-4 is tilted forward. Do I need to order a
> special atitude indicator to compensate for this?
Well, it does need to be adjusted. A gyro overhaul shop can adjust your
AI to compensate for panel tilt. Helicopter installations have this
problem all the time. I ran into this bugaboo myself in my -4.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Formula for Barometric Pressure |
Can anyone out there give me the formula for changing millibars
to inHG.
Thanks in advance. --- Carroll Buffalo Gap, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
<< Lycoming has a really good percent-of-power nomograph in the engine
operator's manual. It does a really good job of showing the relationship
between MAP, RPM, temperature, and ambient pressure on engine power
output.
You know, it would be pretty easy to make a percent-power guage from the
aforementioned 4 parameters. (Hello Matt!)
>>
A local Austin company has built such a device. I can get the info for you if
you are interested...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Formula for Barometric Pressure |
>Can anyone out there give me the formula for changing millibars
>to inHG.
>
> Thanks in advance. --- Carroll Buffalo Gap, TX
Carroll,
________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.best.com/~williams/avform.htm
Sea level standard pressure is 29.92126 in HG, or 1013.250 mb. Thus
multiply the mb value by 0.02953 to convert to in HG.
Links to Ed William's page, and other useful links, are on my RV Links page
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rvlinks.html
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sam James Cowl |
<< Norm-Call Sam James he can answer your questions >>
I would like to know too, Maybe someone can answer those questions on the
list because I sure theirs alot more people out like me.
Carey Mills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Taper Them All? |
DShultzroe(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jerry,
> I too was confused by the plans and what the manual showed on tappering the
> 1/8" spar flange. When I began to loose sleep over this, I figured a call to
> vans was in
> order. I don't remember who it was I talked too, but I was told that this was
> pretty
> much up to the builder. The purpose of tappering is weight reduction and with
> the 1/8" thickness you are not gaining much. [I did taper mine] If I were to
> do it again,
> I would just do it per plans and trim the ends just to save time.
>
> Warren RV--4 wing spars done
> Erie, co.
>
Warren,
Thanks for your sharing your experience. I sent an email to Van's
yesterday, should hear from them next week. I feel better about it
after hearing that you have already checked it out.
Thanks,
Jerry -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Laird Lind" <lairdl(at)mail.airmail.net> |
Please add me to your list.
Laird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge - at rest |
>
> >You know, it would be pretty easy to make a percent-power guage from the
> >aforementioned 4 parameters. (Hello Matt!)
>A local Austin company has built such a device. I can get the info for you if
>you are interested...
Jim Lewman already sent the info. Here is the URL for others to look at if
they are interested: http://www.technologykitchen.com
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Formula for Barometric Pressure |
<< Can anyone out there give me the formula for changing millibars
to inHg. >>
Since standard sea level atmospheric pressure is 1013.2 millibars and 29.92
inHg, the conversion factor from millibars to inHg would be X.0295302.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
I talked to Van's before I ordered my AI from Century. They tell me that 8
degrees is the magic number. Any gyro shop can easily build this into your
gyro.
Joe Rex
-----Original Message-----
From: MOOREWAR+AEA-aol.com +ADw-MOOREWAR+AEA-aol.com+AD4-
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 7:57 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV4 Gyros
+AD4---+AD4- RV-List message posted by: MOOREWAR+AEA-aol.com
+AD4-
+AD4-Noticed that the panel on my rv-4 is tilted forward. Do I need to order a
+AD4-special atitude indicator to compensate for this?
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Transponder/Encoder Problem |
>>I turn my transponder to ALT all I get is "---" in the altitude window.
>>I assume that it should read "007" which is my field altitude at 29.92".
How long are you waiting after power up before you assume there
is a problem? Some blind encoders use a thermal compensating
technique for their pressure transducers that require several minutes
to warm up. In the mean time, the ouput from the encoder may be
disabled.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel tank bracket-rv-4 |
I just finished this and also had the same problem. What you need to do is
mount the bracket on the inside of the fuselage and cut a slot through the
skin for the bracket to go through. I checked most of the RV-4's at the
Homecoming and they also had the same problem and solved it the same way.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Pflanzer <rpflanze(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Transponder/Encoder Problem |
>
>
><< I have been testing all my wiring before disassembly and painting. I've
>run
> across a problem (I think) with my blind encoder and I'm looking for help.
>
> .....
>Before you do anything rash, check this out. It take up to 5 or 10 minutes of
>power on for many encoders to initialize, stabilize and then start sending
>altitude information.
>
>.....
>
>-GV
>
Thank you, thank you, thank you....
You were right. My patience (or lack there of) was getting the best of me.
I let things warm up for about 10 minutes and wham!!! the problem was fixed.
Thanks for the sound advice. I'm finally ready to move off of the wiring
and on to finishing up the engine install. Should be ready for the air
in February I'm guessing.
Randy Pflanzer N417G "Special Angel"
RV-6 - Moving on to the engine compartment
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Considering purchasing/building an RV6 or 6A |
If you fly:: You Buy ; Enough said
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Master Relay |
>I have a 75 AA5 which will not disengage the master relay in flight when
>the alternator is charging (you cannot turn off the master switch and
>disconnect the buss during flight). It works ok on the ground when the
>engine is not running.
Without seeing wiring for the airplane, I'll have to make
some assumptions. Many TC and amateur built airplanes
have classic split rocker switch for battery and alternator
control which is INTENDED to prevent battery disconnection
any time the alternator is operating. A mechanical internconnect
allows the alternator to be shut off with battery still on
and shuts of battery any time the alternator is shut off.
The reason for this is because most alternators do not run
well with the battery off line.
If you have two separate switches for altenrator and battery,
it may be that the alternator switch is two-pole with one
side used to switch alternator field, the other used to make
sure the battery contactor stays closed any time the alternator
is on.
>There is a diode from the battery terminal to the
>solenoid energize terminal. Do you suppose that this could be a factor if
>it has failed? Or do oyou think that maybe somebody has done some wiring
>changes such that the alternator is feeding voltage to the master relay
>solenoid terminal so that it cannot be disengaged.
Most diodes were added to battery contactors as a spike
catcher for the little bit of engergy that's stored in
the contactor's magnetic circuit. I cannot deduce from your
words exactly how this diode is wired but I suspect you're
speaking of a three-terminal contactor with a (+) or
banded end of a diode attached to the big "BAT" terminal
and the other end attached to the small coil terminal.
This is a conventional use of a diode for spike catching.
Failure of the diode (either open or shorted) would not
produce the symptoms you describe.
In any event, opening the battery contactor in flight without
also shutting down the alternator is generally not a good
idean.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Ground Power Article Update |
I've had several requests recently for alternate wiring
of a 3-terminal ground power receptacle in a system having
the same features as the article I did for the low-cost
Piper receptacle. I've revised the article to include
this information. Interested builders may download
from <http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | percent power instrument |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Mark,
I would be interested in seeing info on a percent power guage if you can
come up with some. I have often wished for just such a device. the
turbine boys have it easy here.
Regards, Bill Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: percent power instrument |
A while back the RVator had a "chart" that showed that when you added your
manifold pressure in inches to your RPM in 100's you could "pull" you
output power from the chart. I am not too certain how accurate this is, but
I have the chart in my plane and use it now and them....I suspect it's a
good approximation but still useful.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | 6A Tilltup C-607 Latch Handle |
Drawing 53R2 depicts the C-607 latch handle as having a 3/16 and a 1/4 hole
in it. Drawing 51R6 shows an assembly view with a CM-4MS ball end bearing
in one hole (1/4 inch) and an AN4 bolt in the other hole. Am I overlooking
something or should the 3/16 hole in the latch handle be 1/4?
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tilltup C-607 Latch Handle |
>
>Drawing 53R2 depicts the C-607 latch handle as having a 3/16 and a 1/4 hole
>in it. Drawing 51R6 shows an assembly view with a CM-4MS ball end bearing
>in one hole (1/4 inch) and an AN4 bolt in the other hole. Am I overlooking
>something or should the 3/16 hole in the latch handle be 1/4?
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
>Hampshire, IL
>
I think this is one of those cases where the plans and the product
don't match. Unless you can find a way to get an AN-4 bolt to fit
into a 3/16 holes I'd seriously consider drilling the hole out to 1/4.
I don't recall what I did on my RV but you can't go wrong using the
larger bolt. My feel would be that if you need a 1/4" hole and
corresponding bolt for the long rod then you also need a 1/4" bolt for
the hinge point.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Dunlap <chuck(at)zekes.com> |
| Subject: | Free fuselage jig for RV6 |
I know this is a long shot, as I live 3 hours east of Phoenix, 2 hours
northeast of Tucson but if someone wants it, come n get it. Built to
Van's plans, 2X6's screwed n glued..2 RV6's built on it.
Chuck Dunlap
Safford, AZ
RV6 Finish kit, Mazda powered!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine suitability ? |
I have a friend who has a 0-320-B3B for sale. The engine is disassembled and
there are no logs. He has owned it for 8 years and bought it from a local
pilot who removed it from a twin Commanche. Is this engine suitable for RV-6?
And what should I look for in determining the condition of this engine? Owner
says all major components are yellow tagged and within limits, he has Lycoming
book with specs and invited me to inspect engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
Listers,
I did get a short RV-6 demo ride before I ordered my RV-8 tail kit, but had
never had another RV flight, until yesterday. Yesterday morning Rich
Ranaudo took me for a 1.3 hour ride in his beautiful RV-4!
This is one sweet flying airplane. Its handling qualities rank right up
there with any aircraft I have flown. The stick forces are well harmonized
and light, but not too light. The only negative is that there is very
little stall warning, but the stall itself was very docile.
Rich was brave enough to let me try two landings. Lets just say that I
should have stopped after one. The main landing gear is a bit too short,
so that you are not stalled when in the three point attitude. This makes
wheel landings the prefered type. You need to have pretty close to zero
rate of descent when the mains touch, or the springy gear will give a bit
of a bounce. I understand that later RV-4s and the RV-8 have longer main
LG legs to make three point landings a bit better.
I sure can't wait to get home now and get back at my RV-8.
Get down in the workshop you guys - it's worth it!
Take care,
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum dust hazard? |
>
>I was wondering if anyone knows if aluminum dust and filings are a breathing
>hazard. I have been doing quite a bit of work on a qb6 of late. I cut
>aluminum with a band saw, shape edges with a belt sander, and smooth with a
>scotch brite wheel. This seems to produce significant amounts of aluminum
>dust. I have also done some shaping with a small scotch brite wheel on a
>die grinder. After such sessions, I sometimes get a real coughing fit at
>night, and I wonder if there might be a connection. I get the metallic
>taste in my mouth from the aluminum reacting with acids and the gold
>fillings to make a small electric current, so I know some of the dust is
>getting around, maybe more than I might think. Anyone heard of such a
>problem?
>
>Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
Gar,
I would not worry too much.
The aluminium and dementia story has been laid to rest.
The inhalation of aluminium particles is not a risk factor for
pneumoconiosis because the particles are successfully engulfed by
macrophages and then expelled in the muco-cilliary blanket (you hack them
up tomorrow). If you are grinding then silica particles from the grinding
wheel might constitute a hazard.
It makes sense to not breathe huge quantities of particulate material and
if you are working in a haze of dust some form of filter is a reasonable
idea. Paints and primers are a more important issue but who wants to get
into that.
Leo Davies
6A getting closer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | List of Contributors #2... |
Dear Listers,
As promised, please find attached the second List of Contributors (LOC)
for the Fall 1998 List Fund Raiser. I would like to thank each one of
you for your generous support of this service. I would again also like
to thank Allan Mojzisik for all of his wonderful support during this
year's fund raiser! Thanks Allan! And finally, I would like to thank
everyone that has made a contribution this year in support of the List.
Your contributions have truly made this this service possible.
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
RV, Kolb, and Zenith List Administrator
-------------------------- Fall 1998 LOC #2 ----------------------------
John Armstrong
Scott Bentley
Robert Berrie
Charles Brietigam
Peter Christensen
Larry Daudt
Barney Ellis
Monte Evans
Leo Gates
Allan Gibson
Aaron Gleixner
Edward Gmerek
Tom Graumlich
Peter Hanna
Carl Hoffman
Fred Hulen
Richard Martin
Ross Mickey
Ray Murphy
Alan Newell
Jim Nolan
Richard Pike
Brian Salzmann
Grant Schemmel
David Stratmoen
Tod Taylor
Mike Thompson
Glen Worstell
-------------------------- Fall 1998 LOC #2 ----------------------------
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Kellar" <rjkellar(at)softcom.net> |
| Subject: | Free steel jig for RV6 |
I have a steel jig for a RV6 that is using up space in my driveway. Located
30 miles south of Sacramento CA. Evenings 209-368-2399 ask for Bob.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Kellar" <rjkellar(at)softcom.net> |
| Subject: | Best way to install F631 |
I am building clamshell 6A and am just about ready to mount the completed
F631 to the F605 bulkhead. Neither Justice notes or Cretzinger notes give
much advice on the sequence for installation. How do you accurately drill
the attach holes of the brackets to the F605 etc. Any help would be
appreciated. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine suitability ? |
Best to take it to a reputable engine shop and have them inspect it and
confirm all AD's are complied with. You can ask them to reassemble the
engine with new bolts, etc. and have them run it on a test stand. You can
also have them do other work such as flow balance the cylinders, etc.
----- Original Message -----
From: <JFW9855(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine suitability ?
I have a friend who has a 0-320-B3B for sale. The engine is disassembled and
there are no logs. He has owned it for 8 years and bought it from a local
pilot who removed it from a twin Commanche. Is this engine suitable for
RV-6?
And what should I look for in determining the condition of this engine?
Owner
says all major components are yellow tagged and within limits, he has
Lycoming
book with specs and invited me to inspect engine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 6A Tilltup C-607 Latch Handle |
In a message dated 12/6/98 9:58:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, ammeterj(at)home.com
writes:
<< I think this is one of those cases where the plans and the product
don't match. Unless you can find a way to get an AN-4 bolt to fit
into a 3/16 holes I'd seriously consider drilling the hole out to 1/4.
I don't recall what I did on my RV but you can't go wrong using the
larger bolt. My feel would be that if you need a 1/4" hole and
corresponding bolt for the long rod then you also need a 1/4" bolt for
the hinge point.
>>
I agree it has to be drilled out to 1/4 inch. Just did ours last week.
Bernie Kerr, 6A canopy, SE FLA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bryan Gembusia" <bryan(at)GGGConcepts.com> |
One more try,
Is there an RV builder out there, willing to fly his/her RV (6 or 6a but
any will do) to harrisburg, PA or the surrounding area's ?? I would be
happy to pay for fuel and expenses so I could check out the plane and
possibly get a ride. Please let me know.
Bryan A.
Gembusia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Formula for Barometric Pressure |
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> << Can anyone out there give me the formula for changing millibars
> to inHg. >>
>
> Since standard sea level atmospheric pressure is 1013.2 millibars and 29.92
> inHg, the conversion factor from millibars to inHg would be X.0295302.
>
> -GV
Thanks Gary and all who replied. That is too simple. I figurerd it would
be like converting F to C or something like that.
Carroll Bird, Buffalo Gap, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine suitability ? |
I would be concerned about the eight year storage time. How was it stored?
What climate did it reside in? There can be very fine corrosion that you
can not see. Lycoming ships their engines full of oil if you are going to
store them for six months. Realize that after all of the hardware, assembly
costs (if you are not going to do it yourself) and lack of warranty, all add
up to costs.
Although my engine is not yet running, it sure is pretty, and there is
nothing to worry about, and I have a one year warranty from start up....
Check it out at
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Taper Them All? |
News-Software: UReply 3.1
In a previous message, it was written:
>
>smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
>> The stiffener strips that you are referring too should be left as they
>> are.
>
>I,m confused!! On plans sheet #13, the pictures of the spars on the top
Since I started this thread, let me try and end it.
I think Scott misspoke (above) but full tapering is not necessary as others
have posted.
RE: Scott's message, leaving the 1/8" strips as they are shipped (at least
as they were shipped in November) means they will have a square outboard end.
Square ends are not good - which is why the plans show _un_tapered strips
with 45 degree cuts (clip the corners) then smooth the edges so the whole
end is slightly rounded over.
After talking with a local expert (Hi Mark!) I decided to go this route
vice a full taper. I was assured there would be no clearance problems
later and we agreed there was no mentionable weight gain.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (reserved)
Prepping wing spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine suitability ? |
I would like to take issue with some of these statements with all due
respect. The storage of the engine is moot if it is disassembled and you
can look at every part. If you see EXCESSIVE corrosion and pitting on parts
then you may have a problem. In some areas any corrosion may be in an area
that should be polished or honed anyway and will be gone upon assembly and
present no further problems. An assembled engine is a problem because you
can't see what you are getting. Are you proposing storing a disassembled
engine in an oil bath? I would suggest that you get a good ten thousandths
2" micrometer and check the journals yourself and then get a dial indicator
and track the prop flange inside radius and outside edge. It really isn't
very hard and you will see what you have. Insure that the crank and case
are good and your on your way. You might want to get the crank magnafluxed
but if it HAS a yellow tag then you should be okay. As far as corrosion you
can't see then I don't think you have to worry about it on a DISASSEMBLED
engine. Just because you got an engine from a "reputable" shop doesn't mean
that some guy doing the work didn't have a bad day! Sure you have a
warranty, but if it goes on takeoff and of course you don't turn back, then
a lot of good that warranty is going to do you in the short run anyway.
Personally I see a lot of value in either assembling or assisting the
assembly of your own engine. At least you KNOW what's in there! AL
(Assembling my IO-360-C1C/A1D) Flame away!
>
>I would be concerned about the eight year storage time. How was it stored?
>What climate did it reside in? There can be very fine corrosion that you
>can not see. Lycoming ships their engines full of oil if you are going to
>store them for six months. Realize that after all of the hardware, assembly
>costs (if you are not going to do it yourself) and lack of warranty, all add
>up to costs.
>
>Although my engine is not yet running, it sure is pretty, and there is
>nothing to worry about, and I have a one year warranty from start up....
>
>Check it out at
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>Canopy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine suitability ? |
If you are like most of us who don't know what you we are looking for, then
you are going to have to pay someone to tell you what you are looking for,
and you will have to pay them to assemble it anyway....
It's just a nice piece of mind to have the engine complete, test run, and
ready to go...less time and headaches for more money I guess....
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 10:02 AM
Subject: For sale
Magellan Skyblazer XL with antenna $275 Lyle Hefel 319-583-4657
Pazmany One - 1990 model, side by side 2 place, all metal, 119 Total Time
with zero-time O-320, NAV-COM Loran, Mode C, Electric Trim, Cleveland wheels
and brakes. $30,000 John Wentz 309-944-6252
Professionally welded AirBike fuselage, reasonable - Call Bob Olds,
319-326-2430
Corby Starlet, fuselage & tail completed, with all materials, Estate Sale,
319-324-0126
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Lateral movement of Stick |
Contrary to Van's notion of not putting in a center console, I have decided
and built my center console. In doing some garage flying, I am trying to
get a handle on the angle of deflection needed in the stick to reach full
aileron deflection. Would someone with a wings and aileron attached bird be
kind enough to measure the angle that the stick is deflected left and right
from 90 degrees straight up ie no deflection, for me.
Much obliged.
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Australia Vacation |
Dear Listers down under:
I'm going to Australia next week, and was thinking of taking the family on
a flying tour of either Sydney or Melbourne(my home town).
Can anyone one point me to a club or tour operater that I can contact who
can take us (4 people) on such a tour?
Any help would be appreciated.
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Electric aileron trim for QB, FYI |
I am building the QB and wanted electric aileron trim. Since the flaps come
built, I did not want to cut into them and retrofit the electric kit as it
comes from Van's.
Instead I installed the manual trim, and I have attached a MAC motor that
sits between the seats back up against where the Electric Flap housing hits
the floor. Some offsetting is required, but gentle bending of the threaded
rod works out fine. So far I have tested it without wings attached, just
the control sticks, and the movement seems fine.
So, if anyone wants to convert or install electric aileron, this little
build is pretty easy. (I would assume that for most RVs you would need some
housing to protect the motor, I didn't need it because I have the Center
Console to house it)
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power Article Update |
Bob, The original drawing showed a 2 AMP Circuit Breaker. Why is this no
longer needed?
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 06, 1998 5:29 PM
Subject: RV-List: Ground Power Article Update
I've had several requests recently for alternate wiring
of a 3-terminal ground power receptacle in a system having
the same features as the article I did for the low-cost
Piper receptacle. I've revised the article to include
this information. Interested builders may download
from <http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf>
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
| Subject: | left-hand throttle for 6/6a |
I spoke with Tracy Saylor about the left-hand throttle kit which he sells
for the side-by-side RV's . I know the pros and cons of this have been
debated before here, so I don't want to rehash that.
But I was wondering if anyone has any pictures of his installation that they
could e-mail me or point me to a link. (Tracy doesn't seem to have gone
digital like the rest of us yet, so I am hoping maybe somebody took some
photos at a fly-in.) I would like to take a look for myself at the
ergonomics, impact on entry/exit, etc. Also, any first-hand left-hand
experience with Tracy's set up out there?
thanks,
Louis Cappucci
6A-QB
Mamaroneck, NY
email to --> louis.cappucci(at)gs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownTool(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tool Sale - Advertisement |
Just a quick reminder to all of our RV customers that our SALE on SIOUX Air
Drills and other aircraft tools ends on December 31, 1998. Remind your family
that you want quality tools for the holidays and give them our toll free
number 1-800-587-3883.
SIOUX Mini Palm Drill, Model 1410, Normally $249.95, SALE PRICE $199.95 !!
SIOUX REVERSIBLE Mini Palm Drill, Model 1410R, Normally $289.95, SALE PRICE
$239.95 !!!
SIOUX Standard Model 1450HP or 1454HP Air Drill, Normally $169.95, SALE PRICE
$144.95 !!!
SIOUX Model 1954HP Straight Line Die Grinder, Normally $224.95, SALE PRICE
$149.95!!
Standard Duty Rivet Cutters, Normally $19.95, SALE PRICE $15.95
Mini-Vac Mini Air Vacuum - Normally $25.95, SALE PRICE $22.95
6" Auto-Twist Safety Wire Pliers - Normally $25.95, SALE PRICE $22.95
Thanks to all of our RV customers for our most successful year. We wish all
of you a HAPPY HOLIDAY SEASON and a NEW YEAR OF HEALTH AND PROSPERITY.
Thank you & HAPPY HOLIDAYS,
Michael Brown
Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co.
Bethany, OK USA
1-800-587-3883
405-495-4991
FAX 405-495-4992
http://www.browntool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine suitability ? |
>
> I have a friend who has a 0-320-B3B for sale. The engine is disassembled
and
> there are no logs. He has owned it for 8 years and bought it from a local
> pilot who removed it from a twin Commanche. Is this engine suitable for
RV-6?
>
>
I am running the same engine and have had no problems with this engine. It
does have the conical engine mounts. You need to use Lord J 6230-1 mounts
in this installation. The engine is 160 hp and has a hollow crank for a
constant speed if you desire. Most 0 320 B3B's were on Piper Apache's. I
thought that Twin Comanches had the 180 Hp engines.
I would have the parts checked by a certified shop and get an estimate on
what final cost would be to assemble. You didn't mention what the owner
wanted but would suggest it should be at a very substantial saving.
Just remember, when it comes to engines, you get what you pay for!
Email me off list if you have any questions on the B3B
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
Salmon Arm B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator pulley size |
On 4 Dec 98, at 8:39, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> . . . In observing nearly 10 years history
> and hundreds of thousands of flight hours experience with B&C belt
> driven alternators on Lycomings, the return rate is ZERO . . . I can
> confidently suggest that upsizing an alternator pulley is a waste of
> worry time.
Zero? That sounds almost too good to be true. Nobody ever had a
problem? Reading this got me to thinking that I'd heard somewhere
about B&C having a non-zero return rate on their alternators. I
thought it was something ascribed to the owner's treatment of the unit.
Checking the archives I found a 10 Sep 96 quote from ... Bob Nuckolls:
>In about 7 years of selling these products in a 40 and 60
> amp version, fewer than a dozen of over 1000 have been returned
> for repairs . . . due to owners washing the grease out of
> the bearings while they were cleaning their engines!
OK, still pretty good.
Tim Lewis
"junk yard alternator converted to external regulator, with new
bearings and brushes for under $100"
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner Cut-out Method |
On 4 Dec 98, at 10:39, VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
> Are there any special techniqes you have come up with to get the pattern
> for the cutout accurately besides the draw-on-cardboard method? And
> finally, how do I determine how big to make the opening for the movement
> of the CS prop? Can I manually twist the prop blades to determine
> clearance on the spinner cut-out? I am hoping to make the cutout
> accurately enough to use the fiberglass cutout piece for the backing plate
> behind the blade. Is this a good idea or should I just use aluminum?
I used a piece of cardboard to determine the approximate width of the
blade, then cut a "starter" area out of the spinner. I gradually
expanded the size of the cutout until the spinner would fit over the
blades just right. Then I took a board with a narrow "v" notch and
used that to twist the prop blade angle (careful, don't ruin the stops in
the prop hub). Again, I gradually expanded the opening in the spinner
until the prop just fit, with a bit of clearance all around at all prop blade
angles. Then I completed the spinner with aluminum plates for the cut
out area.
One odd thing... Although the "point" (tip) of my spinner runs true
(doesn't wobble when the prop is rotated) there is a 1/8 to 1/4 bulge in
one section of the spinner in the area just forward of the prop blades.
Anybody else see this in their spinner?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <gretz_aero(at)h2net.net> |
| Subject: | New products available |
I have now started stocking some new items for sale. I will continue to
pass along as much savings to the builders as possible.
The new items are: ELT's---Ameri-King AK-450 w/ new Duracells---$194
Altitude Encoders---Ameri-King
AK-350---$162
The above prices Include shipping in the U.S.
Very shortly, I will be able to make to length all RF cables with the
connectors you will need. This will include quality RF coax for any of
your radios, ELT, or GPS antenna installations with attached high grade
connectors. Call me on this. I should be ready to provide this service
within a week.
Also very shortly I will have a line of two different amplified GPS
antennas (one certified, one much cheaper but not certified). I am sure
you will be interested in the price of both of these. I should have
them in stock within a week.
Keep checking my postings on my products. I am continuing to start new
products at a fast rate now.
I still provide: Heated pitot tube mounting bracket kits.
Heated pitot tubes
Alternative electric elevator trim kis (best if
used on RV6 or 6A's)
ToolKeys, an attractive polished stainless steel
device to hold your aircraft key and designed to open your fuel caps
with ease. It has your aircraft model number laser inscribed into the
head of the TooKey.
For information on any or all of the above items, please contact me.
Gretz Aero
Warren Gretz
3664 E. Lake Drive
Littleton, CO 80121
303-770-3811 evenings or weekends
gretz_aero(at)h2net.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul William Schattauer <schattauerpw(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Matronics Web & FTP Sever Down... |
Please remove me from the list
Thanks
Paul Schattauer
schattauerpw(at)mindspring.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternator pulley size |
>
>Zero? That sounds almost too good to be true. Nobody ever had a
>problem? Reading this got me to thinking that I'd heard somewhere
>about B&C having a non-zero return rate on their alternators. I
>thought it was something ascribed to the owner's treatment of the unit.
>
> Checking the archives I found a 10 Sep 96 quote from ... Bob Nuckolls:
>
>>In about 7 years of selling these products in a 40 and 60
>> amp version, fewer than a dozen of over 1000 have been returned
>> for repairs . . . due to owners washing the grease out of
>> the bearings while they were cleaning their engines!
>OK, still pretty good.
I guess I should say zero failures for reasons other than
owner abuse . . .
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ground Power Article Update |
>
>Bob, The original drawing showed a 2 AMP Circuit Breaker. Why is this no
>longer needed?
Cause there's a 5 amp switch breaker (the aircraft spruce W31X2M1G5)
to provide both control and crowbar OV fault clearing.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spinner Cut-out Method |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Tim; Thanks for the advice on cutting out the spinner. I went down to the
hardware store and bought a contour gauge for $4.00 and used it to make
the pattern, came out perfect the first time! Highly recommend this tool.
Regarding a bulge in the spinner, mine had some excess resin globs on the
surface, but I sanded those off. Other than that, no imperfections.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA (installing cowling)
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>On 4 Dec 98, at 10:39, VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
>> Are there any special techniqes you have come up with to get the
>pattern
>> for the cutout accurately besides the draw-on-cardboard method? And
>> finally, how do I determine how big to make the opening for the
>movement
>> of the CS prop? Can I manually twist the prop blades to determine
>> clearance on the spinner cut-out? I am hoping to make the cutout
>> accurately enough to use the fiberglass cutout piece for the backing
>plate
>> behind the blade. Is this a good idea or should I just use aluminum?
>
>I used a piece of cardboard to determine the approximate width of the
>blade, then cut a "starter" area out of the spinner. I gradually
>expanded the size of the cutout until the spinner would fit over the
>blades just right. Then I took a board with a narrow "v" notch and
>used that to twist the prop blade angle (careful, don't ruin the stops
>in
>the prop hub). Again, I gradually expanded the opening in the spinner
>
>until the prop just fit, with a bit of clearance all around at all
>prop blade
>angles. Then I completed the spinner with aluminum plates for the cut
>
>out area.
>
>One odd thing... Although the "point" (tip) of my spinner runs true
>(doesn't wobble when the prop is rotated) there is a 1/8 to 1/4 bulge
>in
>one section of the spinner in the area just forward of the prop
>blades.
>Anybody else see this in their spinner?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tim Lewis
>_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
>Tim Lewis
>N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
>Springfield VA
>http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
>timrv6a(at)iname.com
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Free fuselage jig for RV6 |
Chuck, If you still have the free jig I am interested. I live in El Paso and
I don't think that Safford is to far.
I have a pick up truck but it is a double cab Maza. If I let the tail gate
down I have about 8 feet. How long is the jig?
Thanks
Rollie
6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Greener" <rgreener(at)micron.net> |
Hello Laird,
Are you the Laird Lind of Boise, Idaho (The 'used to be' West One Bank).
Regards,
Rob Greener rgreener(at)micron.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Laird Lind <lairdl(at)mail.airmail.net>
Date: Sunday, December 06, 1998 10:08 AM
Subject: RV-List: SUBCRIBE
>
>Please add me to your list.
>
> Laird
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: aluminum dust hazard? |
> The aluminium and dementia story has been laid to rest.
>
> The inhalation of aluminium particles is not a risk factor for
> pneumoconiosis because the particles are successfully engulfed by
> macrophages and then expelled in the muco-cilliary blanket
For those who don't know Leo, he's a neurologist, Harvard quals,
appointments in USA and Australia. From the above you can see that
he has difficulty speaking English, let alone American, and that this
disability is independent of his habit of holding a supply of rivets
in his mouth whilst rivetting. If you want to communicate with him I recommend
sign
language, particularly if it resembles the symptoms of severe motor
neuron disease.
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
Listers,
I would like to put a remote compass in my 4 but want to make sure it would
work before I bought it. Does anyone have any experience with a remote compass,
if you do, please respond. If you had good results, where did you locate the
transmitter in the airplane and what brand of compass was it. Thanks
Jim Nolan
N444JN
P.S. I've already looked in the archives and didn't find any useful information.
So
if you have a remote compass or know someone that does, please let me know.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Selection |
My son and I are building a RV-8A and will soon be looking for a mid
time engine. As first time builders we are very concerned and confused
about selecting an engine. We have really appreciated all the expert
advice that the RV-List has provided and again need the Help and Advice
from all the experts out there.
We do not have the expertise to do a rebuild or the resources to take
advantage of Van's OEM pricing on a new engine.
While Van's provides a listing (in the plans) of all O-320, IO-320,
O-340, O-360 and IO-360 engines (with some suggestions/recommendations)
A Comprehensive listing of which engines fit RV-3/RV-4/RV-6/RV-6A/RV-8
and RV-8A aircraft without modification and what modifications are
required to ensure the other engines fit would be of the greatest help
to many of us.
I'm sure this is a daunting task but from a first time (non AP) builder
this information would be tremendously valuable.
Please consider donating your expertise and experience to this effort.
Many thanks,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
N712CR (reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Remote compass |
<< I would like to put a remote compass in my 4 but want to make sure it
would
work before I bought it. Does anyone have any experience with a remote
compass,
if you do, please respond. >>
We out one in a customers' Rocket. What a piece of crap! It swung wildly in
any sort of turbulence or maneuvering. In the unit's defense, I'll say that it
was an O/H'd WW2 unit (from the s/n). It had a DG-like presentation. It could
be that one of those fancy-schmancy futuristic mid-50's units would work
better? ;-\
This is not meant to damn all remote units- this particular unit was no bueno,
altho all bench checks showed OK. Harumph.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
| Subject: | left-hand throttle for 6/6a |
they are levers, your choice how many (probably very similar to the units
that van's sells, but i don't know for sure). it mounts just forward of the
armrest. as far as exactly how it is mounted, how much room it takes, will
it affect full-range stick movement, etc., i don't know. those are the
questions i have too, so i'd love to see some photos (worth a thousand
words) or hear from somebody who uses it.
louis cappucci
6a-qb
> I wasn't aware of Saylor's throttle quadrant. I'd appreciate it if you
> would
> send me (and possibly the list) a description of what he's selling. Is it
> 1,
> 2, or 3 levers? Is it a lever set-up, or a vernier type set-up? Where
> does
> it mount, and how much thigh room does it take up?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle (I want a left hand throttle) Boatright
>
> RV-6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <michaelt(at)AUSVMR.VNET.IBM.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: left-hand throttle for 6/6a |
News-Software: UReply 3.1
In a previous message, it was written:
>
>ergonomics, impact on entry/exit, etc. Also, any first-hand left-hand
>experience with Tracy's set up out there?
>
You might try contacting ROBJHALL(at)JUNO.COM and get his views on the
quadrant setup. His solution was a left hand panel-mounted throttle which
nicely handles the desire to have stick-right, throttle-left, but doesn't
have a quadrant intruding into our limited -6 cabin space.
I occasionally fly a Grob 109B motorglider which has dual throttles, the
pilot's mounted on the left dash brow. Very nice, and handy to the spoiler
handle.
The next time I get a chance to try on a -6 I want to look at his option
as it sounds like a good way to go. If I decide to go quadrant it will have
to be a single go-fast lever or at most dual lever (throttle/mixture).
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (reserved)
_Still_ prepping wing spars
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Selection |
Hear Hear! This would be a very big help.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
While Van's provides a listing (in the plans) of all O-320,
IO-320,
O-340, O-360 and IO-360 engines (with some
suggestions/recommendations)
A Comprehensive listing of which engines fit
RV-3/RV-4/RV-6/RV-6A/RV-8
and RV-8A aircraft without modification and what
modifications are
required to ensure the other engines fit would be of the
greatest help
to many of us.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Malone <mtmalone(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
I am ready to order wings for my rv6 project and wonder which options to
get and whether they should all be ordered now or later. For example,
should I get one leading edge landing light or two? Is it better to get
the electric trim kit now or wait until some of the wing is built? I
plan to get the Phlogiston spars and the enclosed wing tip light kit,
but any suggestions on other options or timing would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Current / circuit breakers |
>>Some circuit breakers have AC or DC ratings....?
>>How does this effect circuit breakers?
>>
>>My basics has gone out of the window.
>>Got into an arguement without being perpared.
>>
>>C/B's I've seen have dual ratings:
>>e.g.
>>
>>10A
>>12-24VDC
>>110-250VAC
>>???????
Note that the 14 VDC rating and the 100 VAC are the same . . .
10 amps. This is generally true of all switching devices (See
my article on switch ratings downloadable from our website).
This rating has more to do with contact material and contact
opening mechanisms than with the current carrying capacity
of a closed switch.
>>The guy who started the arguement states that an A/C C/B will trip
>>later.?
Not true. Amps DC is the same heating value as RMS Amps AC.
The C/B is simply an educated switch. In addition to a
calibrated trip point, it has to be rated for contact life
assmuming X-number of trips in the laboratory.
Hope this helps.
>
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
>I have a pick up truck but it is a double cab Maza. If I let the tail
>gate
>down I have about 8 feet. How long is the jig?
>Thanks
>Rollie
>6A Wings
I moved Will Cretsingers wood fixture with a standard Chev long bed
truck.
the center legs or 1/2 of the 14 foot length & I just got them in the
bed. The front wiht the most mass needs to go in first. You will have to
tie down the front. I think I was a little long on the overhang.
If you are going very far, I would try & borrow a 16 foot trailer.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael brown <browngalaxy(at)ezol.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List:I want to buy your used tools |
> Hi, I just finished watching the video that came with the info pack from Van's.
> I'm hooked, I'm ready to build. I just need the tools and the Empennage kit.
If any of you are done with your tools, have sold your RV and no longer need your
tools, or can no longer fly because of health reasons I would be interested in
buying your tools and pre punched empennage and wing kits (RV-6A).
Please visit my web site at
http://members.tripod.com/rvrvrv6a/I_want_to_buy_your_RV_tools.html for more
information.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Kuebler" <skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Deburring Wing Ribs |
Well, I finally did it. After two weeks of procrastinating, I sat down and made
myself deburr ALL of those wing ribs. I give thanks to the people at 3M for
making a Scotchbrite wheel that fits in a die-grinder! I deburred all of my
empanage with 400 grit sandpaper and can't imagine doing the wing ribs the same
way.
My question is:
It took me about 10 hours to complete the task, is that about right or am I high
or low?
I have always questioned myself on how much deburring is enough, so I probably
over-deburr just to be safe (edges not holes). I look at Cessnas and Pipers and
the aluminum edges on those are so serrated you could carve a turkey! (also,
no rounded corners) I know it won't hurt the plane to have smoother edges,
but if I can cut 100 hours off of building my plane it will be in the air about
two months earlier.
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
RV-6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com> |
unsubscribe
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| From: | "Buster" <6430(at)axion.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Deburring Wing Ribs |
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Kuebler <skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com>
always questioned myself on how much deburring is enough, so I probably
over-deburr just to be safe (edges not holes). I look at Cessnas and Pipers
and the aluminum edges on those are so serrated you could carve a turkey!
(also, no rounded corners) I know it won't hurt the plane to have smoother
edges, but if I can cut 100 hours off of building my plane it will be in the
air about two months earlier.
>
Just run your finger tips over the edges and holes etc. If they are smooth
with no discernible snags, then it is OK. You don't need to be a fanatic
except on extrusions etc.
Set your own standards, but do it right. Once you stop the process, it
stays that way for the life of the airplane...What would you be satisfied
with ??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Taper Them All? |
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
>
> In a previous message, it was written:
> >
> >smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
> >> The stiffener strips that you are referring too should be left as they
> >> are.
> >
> >I,m confused!! On plans sheet #13, the pictures of the spars on the top
>
> Since I started this thread, let me try and end it.
> I think Scott misspoke (above) but full tapering is not necessary as others
> have posted.
> RE: Scott's message, leaving the 1/8" strips as they are shipped (at least
> as they were shipped in November) means they will have a square outboard end.
> Square ends are not good - which is why the plans show _un_tapered strips
> with 45 degree cuts (clip the corners) then smooth the edges so the whole
> end is slightly rounded over.
> After talking with a local expert (Hi Mark!) I decided to go this route
> vice a full taper. I was assured there would be no clearance problems
> later and we agreed there was no mentionable weight gain.
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (reserved)
> Prepping wing spars
Mike and others who had an interest in this issue,
Van's assured me yesterday that tappering is OK. So, it's a simple
matter of builder's choice. Even though I tappered the longest strips,
looking back I would not do it again because the "weight savings" versus
"time spent tappering" is probably not justifiable. I would just clip
and dress the strips as mentioned above.
May this issue rest-in-peace.
Thanks for everyone's input.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
-6a wings
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| Subject: | Re: Remote compass |
Hi Jim,
I have a remote compass in my Mooney and I am very happy with it.
I also have a vertical card compass on the windshield support brace and the
magnetnetic field makes it read about 8 degrees off but the remote compass is
right on. I mounter the transmotter in the tail section right behind the
baggage compartment.
I plan to a remote compass in my 6.
Hopes this helps you.
Bob Cornacchia
Mooney N5754Q
RV6 working on wings
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| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
Installing the slider for the RV6A, everything seems to be turning out
reasnably well EXCEPT Ive had to use up to one half inch spacers and
smaller on the slider tube that butts up against the roll bar. Vans has
longer pop rivets for this but dont know if I like this or not. anyone
been there.
fusleage/canopy
planejoe(at)flnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 control column and sticks |
Greetings folks,
I'm finding the control sticks and their associated brass bearings in
need of much grinding to fit into the control column weldment properly.
Also, the front seat stick will only travel forward maybe three inches
(measured at the top of the stick) then the bottom of it hits the main
tube of the control column. More grinding needed here? I'm pretty sure
all will work out OK, but wanted to check with those who have been there
to be sure.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
fitting tail and rigging controls.
PS, hey, anybody got a spare O-360 layin' around? ;)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
Michael Malone wrote:
>
>
> I am ready to order wings for my rv6 project and wonder which options to
> get and whether they should all be ordered now or later. For example,
> should I get one leading edge landing light or two? Is it better to get
> the electric trim kit now or wait until some of the wing is built? I
> plan to get the Phlogiston spars and the enclosed wing tip light kit,
> but any suggestions on other options or timing would be appreciated.
My time to build for the various sub-parts of the Wing Kit (and Emp.)
can be found at <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/btime.htm>. Other hints
on Wing (and Emp and some Fuselage) building can be found at
<http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm>. Ensure you get Will
Cretsinger's wing construction notes. They're worth their weight in
gold.
If you use the wing tip light kit, you won't need LE landing lights.
If you're in a hurry to fly, you might get someone else to build your
tanks.
You might also want to consider capacitative fuel senders instead of the
float-type Vans sells. Note: Vans doesn't include any fuel senders in
the kit. Also, do you want a flop-tube fuel pickup for inverted flight?
Order you fuel tank sealant (not included in kit) from Vans just before
starting on your tanks.
I think the electric aileron trim kit is easier to fit during building
(I'm using manual aileron trim, so can't comment firsthand).
Also think about what other tools you'll need. I suggest
* double-offset 1/8" rivet set
* Avery's close-quarters 5/32" dimple die set
* lots more 1/8" and 3/32" clecoes.
for starters. No doubt other listers will have other suggestions.
HTH,
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Deburring Wing Ribs |
Scott:
You wrote:
--
>My question is:
>It took me about 10 hours to complete the task, is that about right or am I
high or low?
>) I know it won't hurt the plane to have smoother edges, but if I can cut
100 hours off of building my plane it will be in the air about two months
earlier.
>
>Scott Kuebler
>Buffalo, NY
>RV-6a
>
A good rule of thumb is, "if you don't cut your finger when you draw it
across the edge, it's safe." Beyond that, it's personal. How good do you
want it to be? How bad does it have to be before you lose pride in your
work?
George
#80006
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lider spacers |
Joe
I had the same problem, I ordered the longer pop rivets from Vans. Be
sure to use the same type as called out in the plans, i.e the soft
aluminum, I wouldn't use the steel monel ones. Worked out well for me.
I also used Marine Tex, (thick gooey epoxy) to fill all of the space
between the frame and canopy, it also works as a great glue, probably
did not even need pop rivets. But I don't want to experiment with
loosing a canopy.
Bob Busick
RV6
Fremont CA
joseph.wiza wrote:
>
>
> Installing the slider for the RV6A, everything seems to be turning out
> reasnably well EXCEPT Ive had to use up to one half inch spacers and
> smaller on the slider tube that butts up against the roll bar. Vans has
> longer pop rivets for this but dont know if I like this or not. anyone
> been there.
>
> fusleage/canopy
> planejoe(at)flnet.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 control column and sticks |
In a message dated 12/8/98 8:36:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I'm finding the control sticks and their associated brass bearings in
need of much grinding to fit into the control column weldment properly.
Also, the front seat stick will only travel forward maybe three inches
(measured at the top of the stick) then the bottom of it hits the main
tube of the control column. More grinding needed here? I'm pretty sure
all will work out OK, but wanted to check with those who have been there
to be sure.
>>
Mounted mine this weekend. I had to cut down the length of the brass bearings
to get a good fit. Try to keep the length of the bearing only slightly longer
than the control stick. Otherwise you'll get an unacceptable amount of side
to side play in the sticks. The bottom of my sticks didn't hit the main tube
but they are very close. If you grind any of the stick away be sure to watch
your edge distance. Make sure the attachment bolt at the bottom of the sticks
aren't hitting the main tube. If you use a bolt longer than called for on the
plans it will hit the side of the main tube.
Rick McBride
80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Busick <rbusick(at)netmagic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Deburring Wing Ribs |
Scott
My biggest concern is to ensure that the edges are smooth so that when I
pickup the piece or I am putting my arm through the lightening holes, I
do not cut myself. You might someday try and pickup or reposition the
wing on the jig by using one of the lightening holes as a hand hold. Of
course I never did this, and I won't ever do it again without gloves on!
I did get a nasy cut from just picking up my firewall from the recess
cutout I made for the prop gov. Blood everywhere, Wife really spooked,
didn't hurt and really looked worse than it was. Hardest part was
cleaning the blood off the firewall. I overdue some of the deburring
just to keep additional blood off the project.
Bob Busick
RV6
Fremont CA
> My question is:
> It took me about 10 hours to complete the task, is that about right or am I high
or low?
> I have always questioned myself on how much deburring is enough, so I probably
over-deburr just to be safe (edges not holes).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
Need suggestions for bending the F-696 fuel tank attach brackets which bolt to
the fuselage on an RV-6. The manual says "The brackets will need a slight
bend..." OK, sure, but Superman, I'm not. I've tried everything short of
running over them with the car... HELP!
Kyle Boatright
RV-6 builder/aluminum scrap creator
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Taper Them All? |
I promised that I would get back to the list after I looked into this in
more detail.
Others have also, but here is my response.
>Since I started this thread, let me try and end it.
>I think Scott misspoke (above) but full tapering is not necessary as
>others
>have posted.
>RE: Scott's message, leaving the 1/8" strips as they are shipped (at
>least
>as they were shipped in November) means they will have a square
>outboard end.
>Square ends are not good - which is why the plans show _un_tapered
>strips
>with 45 degree cuts (clip the corners) then smooth the edges so the
>whole
>end is slightly rounded over.
>
Yes apparently I did misspeak (mispost?).
I had the understanding that the work done on the spars before shipping
to builders now included all of the approved lightening work.
(many of the more recent builders may not know that not too many years
ago the spars came with no lightening holes cut, and none of the spar
bars tapered... unless you bought the Phlogiston option).
Apparently the only work not done is tapering the longest 1/8" bar.
No one knows why for certain. Most likely it is because the vendor that
does all of the other work on the spars (Phlogiston) does not do the
tapper on this bar, even on the current prebuilt spars.
To add even more confusion is that the plans drawing for the spar (which
does show a detail of the longest bar being tapered) doesn't give any
dimension info for making this tapper (it only gives it for the rest of
the bars).
BTW... When I said to leave them as the are, I didn't mean literally the
way you took them out of the box. I assumed a builder would still follow
the instructions/standard procedures for finishing the edges of all bars,
and properly finishing the ends with the 45 deg cuts as shown in the
plans.
I knew the details were there for finishing the ends. I did not know the
drawing showed tappers on the longest bars. I constantly learn new stuff
from monitoring the list just like everyone else.
I'm sure you can forgive me though... if some of you find it difficult to
remember details of just one model/plans set of an RV, try doing it with
four different models/plans sets. :-)
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
RE: Wings and Fuel tank senders.
Capacitance type senders (as an option) was mentioned for the fuel tank
quantity indicators. Anybody have brand recommendations, ones to avoid,
lessons learned, etc. on this subject???
BTW, other wing options you might want to consider are pitot heat,
underwing NACA duct for cabin ventilation, wing tip locker/storage
compartment.
Doug Seward
-4, Seattle, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus Cooper" <mcooper(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
I attached my brackets a few months ago and I'm sure I missed something, but
I did not bend them at all and they fit just fine. I clamped the bracket to
the fuel tank and drilled to the fuselage, then drilled through the two
brackets once the fuselage mount was secured. I didn't detect any gap or
other problems.
Marcus
RV-6 - flying and having a blast
>Need suggestions for bending the F-696 fuel tank attach brackets which bolt
to
>the fuselage on an RV-6. The manual says "The brackets will need a slight
>bend..." OK, sure, but Superman, I'm not. I've tried everything short of
>running over them with the car... HELP!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
>
>Need suggestions for bending the F-696 fuel tank attach brackets which
bolt to
>the fuselage on an RV-6. The manual says "The brackets will need a slight
>bend..." OK, sure, but Superman, I'm not. I've tried everything short of
>running over them with the car... HELP!
>
>Kyle Boatright
>RV-6 builder/aluminum scrap creator
Kyle,
Solid little things aren't they? I wandered up to a local metal
fabrication shop and put them in a press with a piece of 3" (from memory)
scrap rod as a mandrel. A little touch with the press, check them against a
template or protractor, a little more etc etc. You might achieve the same
thing with a BIG vice. Don't try it with a cheap store bought vice as the
die casting won't take the strain.
Leo Davies
Mustering courage for the windscreen intersection fairing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
Kyle,
I had good luck laying the brackt over the edge of a piece of
plywood on the shop floor and giving it a calibrated "whack" with a small
maul.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6 flying
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings (now construction notes) |
*** snip ***
>
>My time to build for the various sub-parts of the Wing Kit (and Emp.)
>can be found at <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/btime.htm>. Other hints
>on Wing (and Emp and some Fuselage) building can be found at
><http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm>. Ensure you get Will
>Cretsinger's wing construction notes. They're worth their weight in
>gold.
*** snip ***
For those new readers, Will Cretsinger's wing and sliding canopy notes
are on my web site:-
http://www.flash.net/~gila
... thanks Will! .... Gil Alexander
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Deburring Wing Ribs |
Scott, I just checked mu logs and it took me 11 hours to deburr my wing
ribs and I probably went overboard on it also. The advice you received
about it being smooth enough where you cannot hang up a fingernail or
cut yourself is what I go by now.
BTW, all my corners are rounded.
Fran Malczynski
RV6 Fuselage
Olcott, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robin.y.wessel(at)exgate.tek.com |
| Subject: | FWIW- Observations about levels |
Lately I have been hung up on the accuracy of my bubble levels during the
construction of the -6 wing. succumbing to the pressure to buy more tools
(especially the ones that amount to $20 per use), I bought an electronic
level.
My conclusion: The $109 Bosh electronic level (rebadged Md) is less accurate
than my $29.95 Johnson box level (Home Depot).
I was quite surprised to find that I could get consistently repeatable
measurements to .05deg with a good quality bubble level. I guess it took a
reference at an electronic level for me to feel comfortable with the real
accuracy of a good bubble level. The instructions that came with the
electronic level even stated that the basic accuracy of the digital was
.1deg (.25 when measuring angles) and the built in bubble was .025deg. When
the bubble hits the line on the sight it is only .2deg off. The stated
accuracy of my Johnson Box level is .029deg, better than the electronic
level.
Electronic Level-
pros- easy to read, capable of measuring pitch (with less accuracy than
level measurements), cool
cons- expensive, batteries req, must be calibrated, can be less accurate
than a high quality bubble, expensive
Bubble Level-
pros- accurate (quality ones), cheap, no calibration necessary
cons- not able to measure pitch, not accurate (cheap models), not as cool.
For all the builders who think they need an electronic level (like me), I
suggest just using the inexpensive box level. I am returning the electronic
level and will find some other neato tool to buy.
my thoughts,
Robin Wessel
RV-6A wings
Ann Arbor, MI - Moving to Oregon in January
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW- Observations about levels |
Hi Robin, found your comparison between electronic and bubble level
interesting. I suspect that the quality of your electronic
level(regardless of cost) may have been a factor. I too purchased a
electronic level after I convinced myself I could do no better than
1-2degree with a bubble level (perhaps I did not have a quality bubble
level). I was particularly interested in insuring that I set both wings
to the same level of incident (so in this case precision rather than
accuracy was more important in my opinion). My electronic level claimed
an accuracy of 0.2 degrees and appeared to deliver that accuracy or at
least better than the 1-2 degree I could get with my bubble. But, I do
agree they are expensive for the few times used.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Vienna, VA
robin.y.wessel(at)exgate.tek.com wrote:
>
>
> Lately I have been hung up on the accuracy of my bubble levels during the
> construction of the -6 wing. succumbing to the pressure to buy more tools
> (especially the ones that amount to $20 per use), I bought an electronic
> level.
>
> My conclusion: The $109 Bosh electronic level (rebadged Md) is less accurate
> than my $29.95 Johnson box level (Home Depot).
>
> I was quite surprised to find that I could get consistently repeatable
> measurements to .05deg with a good quality bubble level. I guess it took a
> reference at an electronic level for me to feel comfortable with the real
> accuracy of a good bubble level. The instructions that came with the
> electronic level even stated that the basic accuracy of the digital was
> .1deg (.25 when measuring angles) and the built in bubble was .025deg. When
> the bubble hits the line on the sight it is only .2deg off. The stated
> accuracy of my Johnson Box level is .029deg, better than the electronic
> level.
>
> Electronic Level-
>
> pros- easy to read, capable of measuring pitch (with less accuracy than
> level measurements), cool
>
> cons- expensive, batteries req, must be calibrated, can be less accurate
> than a high quality bubble, expensive
>
> Bubble Level-
>
> pros- accurate (quality ones), cheap, no calibration necessary
>
> cons- not able to measure pitch, not accurate (cheap models), not as cool.
>
> For all the builders who think they need an electronic level (like me), I
> suggest just using the inexpensive box level. I am returning the electronic
> level and will find some other neato tool to buy.
>
> my thoughts,
>
> Robin Wessel
> RV-6A wings
> Ann Arbor, MI - Moving to Oregon in January
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>Need suggestions for bending the F-696 fuel tank attach brackets which
>bolt to
>the fuselage on an RV-6. The manual says "The brackets will need a slight
>bend..." OK, sure, but Superman, I'm not. I've tried everything short of
>running over them with the car... HELP!
I put them in a vice with a piece of pipe of a size to fill the angle
from edge to edge then put all the strength I had into the vice. Then I
got a larger friend to tighten the vice as much as he could. I could not
believe the vice did not break but the angle still had not budged.
At this point just a tap with a hammer on the vice did the job.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
Pacer N8025D
RV-6Q N441LP
FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cleaveland Aircraft Tool" <mail(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW- Observations about levels |
>I was quite surprised to find that I could get consistently repeatable
>measurements to .05deg with a good quality bubble level. I guess it took a
>reference at an electronic level for me to feel comfortable with the real
>accuracy of a good bubble level.
I too was surprised when I started playing with our "smart levels" I could
actually see a small change in the bubble without the readout changing.
However telling the difference between 12deg and 12.5 deg with the
electronic version is much easier. Also setting a zero somewhere other than
level to check how far off from your ideal angle is pretty cool. If all you
are doing is checking level and plumb stick with the bubble.
Mike Lauritsen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | FWIW- Observations about levels |
>My conclusion: The $109 Bosh electronic level (rebadged Md) is less
accurate
>than my $29.95 Johnson box level (Home Depot).
Robin, while I can't say my smart level is less accurate than a bubble
level, I was impressed when my testing revealed what you have apparently
noticed: it should be obvious with a bubble level when you are as little
as 1/2 degree off. Kind of a "warm fuzzy" feeling for the accuracy of
the simple bubble!
You did miss a few real nice things about the smart level that have come
in real handy:
1) Pressing the "tone" button will beep when you are at 0 or 90 degrees.
It's faster when working alone to be able to set the smart level up, and
move away to level the jig or longeron, etc. Keep moving the object
until the tone sounds, and you are 00.0 degrees!
2) Relative degrees. You can quickly re-zero the smartlevel to any
angle and then measure relative offsets easily.
3) It shows you which end needs to go up/down or right/left for either 0
or 90 degrees. This is for the brain dead people who shouldn't be
building planes anyway. But it's a nice touch.
3) Impress your friends. We're making airplanes to the same
manufacturing specs as F-14's dang it, and the digital display looks
much professional than piece of tubing filled with water!
Mitch Faatz San Jose, CA N727MF (reserved)
RV-6AQME Finishing Kit...
Pres/Newsletter Editor - Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
Doug,
I am just now installing the second of my two capacitance-type fuel senders in
the last-to-finish major component of my airplane, the left wing fuel tank. I
have no actual experience with the accuracy of this type fuel sender, but
capacitance-type senders are reputed to be very accurate, which is one reason I
chose to install them in the first place. The manufacturer of my fuel quantity
system is Vision Microsystems. The fuel quantity gauge provides both analogue
and digital readouts of fuel quantity in each tank in a standard 2"
installation.
The installation is far more tedious and time-consuming than the standard
Stewart-Warner devices commonly used. Holes must be cut in five tank ribs to
accommodate the senders, and the holes must be positioned with great accuracy.
Moreover, one must design some way to support the end of the sender at the
inboard rib. I did this with an aluminum plate (0.062" 6061T6) that I had
welded to the fitting at the inboard end of the sender. The difficulty with
this is that the plate must be accurately registered on the fitting and held
there firmly during the welding. I drilled holes in the plate and fastened it
to the inboard rib with three 1/8" rivets and the usual dose of ProSeal.
I expect it to be a reliable and accurate fuel quantity system, but I must
confess: it's a lot of extra hassle.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
Seward747(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> RE: Wings and Fuel tank senders.
> Capacitance type senders (as an option) was mentioned for the fuel tank
> quantity indicators. Anybody have brand recommendations, ones to avoid,
> lessons learned, etc. on this subject???
>
> Doug Seward
> -4, Seattle, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
>I put them in a vice with a piece of pipe of a size to fill the angle
>from edge to edge then put all the strength I had into the vice. Then I
>got a larger friend to tighten the vice as much as he could. I could not
>believe the vice did not break but the angle still had not budged.
I just did this operation on Gillette Charlie's six. I used his 5" vice,
put the corner of the angle on one jaw and the ends of the legs against a
piece of steel placed against the other jaw. I think this method might
require less force than the above mentioned method.
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Lattimer" <billla(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I had done so before, but
frankly hadn't considered every gauge and widget. For a QB,
basic IFR capable, 180HP, constant speed RV I came up with
~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 control column and sticks |
Rick If you want a real nice fit leave the bushings long and add a thin
thrust washer between the stick and weldment tube also drill two small holes
to lube the stick bushings.
TOM RV8 TIO540S1AD LYC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Engines help |
Greetings,
I've been trying to contact Tom Schweitz of Aero Engines to have him
build up an O-360 for me, but am having great difficulty maintaining a
line of communication. We did chat a couple of weeks ago about what I
was looking for and what he had in stock (no core at that time) but have
not heard back from him. Are good, run-out 360 cores that hard to find?
Or, should I look elsewhere? I'd love to just have Bart Lalonde work
his magic, but can't afford the $15k he charges. Since I live in the
southwest, are there any reputable engine folks down here that could
help out a budget-minded RV builder with a rebuild, or mid-time engine
sourcing and checkout?
Thanks
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
That sounds about right. I'm building an RV-8, not QB, Night VFR, 180
HP, Fixed Pitch Prop, and my estimate is $50K.
Sylvain Duford
RV-8, Right Wing Skins
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bill Lattimer" <billla(at)gte.net>
Subject: RV-List: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:11:48 -0800
I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I had done so before, but
frankly hadn't considered every gauge and widget. For a QB,
basic IFR capable, 180HP, constant speed RV I came up with
~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mpilla(at)mitre.org (Michael A. Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
IMHO, the only problem with the flat piece of steel (vs. the pipe in the
notch) is that the bending takes place near the outer edges instead of
nearer to the center thereby resulting in a possibly poorer fit to the
tank and fuselage framework.
The pipe method, while admittedly requiring more strength, causes the
bend to take place closer to the inner edge (probably the tangent of the
pipe and the angle bracket). This results in more of a flatter section
for mating to the tank/fuselage framework.
Michael Pilla
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
>
> >I put them in a vice with a piece of pipe of a size to fill the angle
> >from edge to edge then put all the strength I had into the vice. Then I
> >got a larger friend to tighten the vice as much as he could. I could not
> >believe the vice did not break but the angle still had not budged.
>
> I just did this operation on Gillette Charlie's six. I used his 5" vice,
> put the corner of the angle on one jaw and the ends of the legs against a
> piece of steel placed against the other jaw. I think this method might
> require less force than the above mentioned method.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Nielsen" <nielsen(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
My bending method was to clamp one leg of the angle in my 4" vise and clamp
the other leg to a 5 foot long 2x6 with two hefty C-clamps. This worked
well for me. I did need an assistant however, to sit on my work table (the
one to which the vise was attached) and hold it in place while I bent the
angle.
Mark Nielsen; RV-6; 300 hrs.
>I put them in a vice with a piece of pipe of a size to fill the angle
>from edge to edge then put all the strength I had into the vice. Then I
>got a larger friend to tighten the vice as much as he could. I could not
>believe the vice did not break but the angle still had not budged.
I just did this operation on Gillette Charlie's six. I used his 5" vice,
put the corner of the angle on one jaw and the ends of the legs against a
piece of steel placed against the other jaw. I think this method might
require less force than the above mentioned method.
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
>I am just now installing the second of my two capacitance-type fuel
senders in
>the last-to-finish major component of my airplane, the left wing fuel
tank. I
>have no actual experience with the accuracy of this type fuel sender, but
>capacitance-type senders are reputed to be very accurate,
Not necessarily more accurate but certainly more reliable, consistent, and
repeatable.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
>
>I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
>initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I had done so before, but
>frankly hadn't considered every gauge and widget. For a QB,
>basic IFR capable, 180HP, constant speed RV I came up with
>~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
That seems quite plausible when I consider what I have invested in my RV-4.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mpilla(at)mitre.org (Michael A. Pilla) |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
Be careful dealing with Tom. I went to his shop to rebuild an O-320E2D
with a 160hp upgrade. The quality of the work was excellent and my
personal learning was tremendous (Tom will let you do as much or as
little as your want).
My gripe is that Tom had removed the dataplate and kept the logs "to
fill in the information". To make a long story short, I have neither
logs, nor a data plate. Admittedly, upgrading from an -E2D to a "sort
of" -D1A with cases, cranks, etc., replaced, might make it hard, but I
was *not* informed, ahead of time, that such would be the case.
Discussions prior to the work and subsequent phone calls indicated that
I would have both log book and data plate. Your difficulty in reaching
him is what I experienced (letters, phone calls, SASEs, etc.; all to no
avail).
So, be aware of what might happen going in and be prepared.
BTW, I found my "core" in TAP a couple of months after a major hurricane
destroyed some planes. After this recent hurricane season, there should
be some wind damaged planes with engines being parted out.
Michael Pilla
Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I've been trying to contact Tom Schweitz of Aero Engines to have him
> build up an O-360 for me, but am having great difficulty maintaining a
> line of communication. We did chat a couple of weeks ago about what I
> was looking for and what he had in stock (no core at that time) but have
> not heard back from him. Are good, run-out 360 cores that hard to find?
> Or, should I look elsewhere? I'd love to just have Bart Lalonde work
> his magic, but can't afford the $15k he charges. Since I live in the
> southwest, are there any reputable engine folks down here that could
> help out a budget-minded RV builder with a rebuild, or mid-time engine
> sourcing and checkout?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 #379
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
>
>I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
>initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I had done so before, but
>frankly hadn't considered every gauge and widget. For a QB,
>basic IFR capable, 180HP, constant speed RV I came up with
>~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
Sounds right on Bill.
I've been keeping track of every expenditure on my project, have all the
"biggies" purchased, and the remaining expenses are (hopefully) known. My
RV-6Q has a fresh overhaul O-320, fixed pitch metal prop, night VFR, no
gyros (except T/C). My only "splurges" have been a Navaid, Allegro
electronic engine monitor, Shroth single point seat belts, and I'm leaning
towards a DJ interior...total cost will be $61K.
Recently there was a thread implying that a standard kit could be in the air
for about $30K, and seeing my expenses I just can't see it. It's amazing
how all the "little" things add up...a trip here for some wood for the jig,
another one here for some sandpaper, another for a can of primer, the tools
you forgot to get up front, etc. etc.
My cost breakdown of a basic day VFR standard RV would be (figures rounded
within $1K):
Kit price about $12K. Comm, handheld GPS, xpdr, and basic daytime VFR
flight and engine instrumentation $4K. Basic no night electrical $1K.
Basic tools $2K. Mid-time firewall forward (engine, f/p wood prop, baffles,
oil cooler, lord mounts, exhaust system, heat muffs, cables, hoses, etc.
etc.) $12K. Paint and equipment $1K. Shipping for everything $1K.
Assorted other stuff $2-3K.
That's $34K minimum, not including state/use taxes, etc.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q, hanging engine).
rvsixer(at)pacbell.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
Brian:
You may want to ask Bart if he can build you an 0-360 with an overhauled
crank. He gives a $2700 discount if he can find one.
My 0-360 A2A was $12,500
If not, try Lycon. They do some nice work at reasonable prices.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW- Observations about levels |
One thing I find my electronic level is great for is measuring control throws.
I took the day off from work today so I could set the entire beast out in the
driveway, attach both wings, and fit the aileron push/pull tubes. Many trips
back and forth between wings adjusting things, but the smart level was
great... Only took a few seconds to make each of the 20 or so measurements I
took. I expect that when I do the elevators it will be the same.
Kyle Boatright
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
> I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
> initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I had done so before, but
> frankly hadn't considered every gauge and widget. For a QB,
> basic IFR capable, 180HP, constant speed RV I came up with
> ~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
I built my 6A for about $35K; but that was a non-quickbuild with a used
0-360, a wood prop, a very basic VFR panel, and a free paint job by next
door neighbor. I can easily see how the aircraft you are describing
could reach 70K.
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
http://www.rvbookstore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
Try Lycon. www.lycon.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael A. Pilla <mpilla(at)mitre.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero Engines help
Be careful dealing with Tom. I went to his shop to rebuild an O-320E2D
with a 160hp upgrade. The quality of the work was excellent and my
personal learning was tremendous (Tom will let you do as much or as
little as your want).
My gripe is that Tom had removed the dataplate and kept the logs "to
fill in the information". To make a long story short, I have neither
logs, nor a data plate. Admittedly, upgrading from an -E2D to a "sort
of" -D1A with cases, cranks, etc., replaced, might make it hard, but I
was *not* informed, ahead of time, that such would be the case.
Discussions prior to the work and subsequent phone calls indicated that
I would have both log book and data plate. Your difficulty in reaching
him is what I experienced (letters, phone calls, SASEs, etc.; all to no
avail).
So, be aware of what might happen going in and be prepared.
BTW, I found my "core" in TAP a couple of months after a major hurricane
destroyed some planes. After this recent hurricane season, there should
be some wind damaged planes with engines being parted out.
Michael Pilla
Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> Greetings,
>
> I've been trying to contact Tom Schweitz of Aero Engines to have him
> build up an O-360 for me, but am having great difficulty maintaining a
> line of communication. We did chat a couple of weeks ago about what I
> was looking for and what he had in stock (no core at that time) but have
> not heard back from him. Are good, run-out 360 cores that hard to find?
> Or, should I look elsewhere? I'd love to just have Bart Lalonde work
> his magic, but can't afford the $15k he charges. Since I live in the
> southwest, are there any reputable engine folks down here that could
> help out a budget-minded RV builder with a rebuild, or mid-time engine
> sourcing and checkout?
>
> Thanks
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 #379
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walsh, John" <jwalsh1(at)unifi.com> |
| Subject: | Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
> >
> >I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
> >initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I came up with
> >~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
>
> That seems quite plausible
>
Every one should do this excercise a couple of times. Sit down
with the Spruce
catalog and pick out all your avionics, fancy interior, CS prop and
oooh let's not forget
the turbo super metallic hyper polynated paint job that you just
have to have.
When I did this I came out to $70k for an RV4. When I regained
consciousness, I was then able to begin the process of deciding what was
REALLY important and what was just nice to have.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
Seward747(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> RE: Wings and Fuel tank senders.
> Capacitance type senders (as an option) was mentioned for the fuel tank
> quantity indicators. Anybody have brand recommendations, ones to avoid,
> lessons learned, etc. on this subject???
I used some military surplus fuel senders, about 18" long. To fit them,
I had to cut a hole in one rib in each tank, plus do a whole lot of
engineering to make brackets, etc. Since they're in the inboard two
bays, they will read full when the tank is about 3/4 full. I estimate
over 20 hours fiddling round installing them.
Some time ago, Dick Martin posted to the RV-list
about his DIY capacitance senders. If I'd read his post before I bought
my senders, I would have done it his way. Here's the first part of his
post (go to the archives for the rest): "I have with the help of the
engineers at Electronics International (They advertise in every issue of
SPORT AVIATION, usually in the back of the magizine. Phone number,
address etc. is there.) developed an excellent, simple and economical
capacitance fuel tank sensor for the RV8. I have it installed in my RV8
and in testing it works perfect. It must be installed in the fuel tanks
before you close them."
> BTW, other wing options you might want to consider are pitot heat,
> underwing NACA duct for cabin ventilation, wing tip locker/storage
> compartment.
To flog an expired equine: Long Range tanks?
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
I'm reposting this for a fellow RV builder/pilot that is not on the list.
For Sale:
Lycoming O-320D2J
1950 TT
130 SMOH to factory new tolerances
All ADs etc. & SB 505 complied with.
Carb, fuel pump & mags included
Currently flying in RV-6A, try before you buy!
Price: $11,500 - reduced from $12,500
Reason for sale: Installing constant speed prop.
Please contact Rick Liles, the owner, directly at:
Ph: 806-794-7336
Lubbock, TX
e-mail: RLiles(at)indmolding.com
Rick is an A&P as well as an EAA Technical Counselor. An honest person to
deal with IMO.
Thanks,
Stan Blanton
stanb(at)door.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW- Observations about levels |
Get a Smart Level. Not sure who makes it, but I got mine at home Depot for
$100. No need to calibrate it, just turn it on, and it will tell you what
angle you are holding it from "0", and which direction it has to go, no
matter what. Even works upside down. Accurate to .1 deg. Automatically shuts
itself off if you leave it on. Battery's have lasted about 8 months and
still going.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
>Lately I have been hung up on the accuracy of my bubble levels during the
>construction of the -6 wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Deburring Wing Ribs |
>Scott, I just checked mu logs and it took me 11 hours to deburr my wing
>ribs and I probably went overboard on it also. The advice you received
>about it being smooth enough where you cannot hang up a fingernail or
>cut yourself is what I go by now.
>
>BTW, all my corners are rounded.
Scott,
As someone who recently completed final wing closure I can tell you that
the time spent making those lightening holes smooth is well spent. You will
have about 8 hours of your life with your arms through those holes bracing
against them.
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW- Observations about levels |
> Get a Smart Level. ..... Accurate to .1 deg.
Did you actually measure the accuracy, Moe, or is it just that it "reads" to a
tenth of degree? I'm not questioning the accuracy but it is possible for it to
read in tenths but not be that accurate.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Deburring Wing Ribs |
Leo Davies wrote:
> As someone who recently completed final wing closure I can tell you that
> the time spent making those lightening holes smooth is well spent. You will
> have about 8 hours of your life with your arms through those holes bracing
> against them.
>
You can probably make it up in bandaides saved??
Quality. 100% is practically unacheiveable. 95% is a high number and each
additional percent is ten times as expensive as the one before. Well, that is
a
pretty rough summary of quality control.
We just saw a Jack Nicholson movie the other nite called "As Good As It Gets".
He could never build an airplane.
It is good to smooth edges for some real requirement but what is also important
is to get the project completed. Somewhere between unacceptable and perfect is
a happy medium.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
Brian Denk wrrote:
>Are good, run-out 360 cores that hard to find?
I thought I might have an engine from Wentworth as they had an O360A4M for
$11,500 with 1165 hours. I offered $10000 and said I would prefer on with a
mechanical fuel pump. He said that they could change the accessory case but it
would be $11,900 then. Seemingly no dickering.
I found a guy in LA area in TAP with two low time O360A1As with Rajay turbos for
$20K or $10K each. I think his name was Chad. This seemed pretty reasonable
but I had, without much investigation, some reservations about any used engine.
First, nearly all that are available are out on the ground, usually for some
period of time and with no documented preservation procedure. The guy with two
DOES have engine logs but, if I understand right, no airframe logs so where did
these engines come from? Were they involved in prop strikes? There are a good
few available with prop strikes. Whites in KC had one for $6750 with an excess
runout of 0.001 inches.
An old guy here who runs a aircraft shop told me you can give an engine with
only a small runout crank a whack on the flange with a dead blow hammer and
knock it back. Great! I wonder how many prop strike engines with no runout
have seen this treatment? I was also told by a mechanic about a twin that flew
in to his shop. It had a minor prop strike on one engine that dialed out okay.
When torn down the crankshaft was found to be cracked half way through.
So, I decided that a core and rebuild was the way to go. Basically that is
$7000 to $9000 for core plus $8000 to $12000 for the overhaul. What you have
when all done is a fine *USED* engine. Where's that Van's catalog?
Now, IO-360A's (200 hp) can be had from an outfit that advertises them in TAP
for $9500. They are out of Mooney's that are upgrading to ???
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
Denny Harjehauser:
A few days back you asked the question "will fuel bypass if the engine
driven pump fails". The answer is yes, so no need for a bypass and all the
complications that go with it .
Eustace Bowhay -Blind Bay, B.C. Fuselage 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Taper Them All? |
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
****SNIP*****
>
> I'm sure you can forgive me though... if some of you find it difficult to
> remember details of just one model/plans set of an RV, try doing it with
> four different models/plans sets. :-)
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
****SNIP****
Scott,
Since I was involved in the spar tappering shindig, I feel obligated to
let you know that I definately understand the monumental task it must be
to keep all the info straight, especially since the plans are
continuously revised!! Thanks for sharing your valuable and appreciated
information.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
Thanks guys for the info on how much an 8 will cost to build.....but i better
not tell the wife......in aussie dollars it will some where near 100,000
dollars.......My wings alone cost me 8500 dollars by the time i had them shipped
here and paid for them at an exchange rate of 64 cents to your US dollar.
Peter Winter.
Sylvain Duford wrote:
>
> That sounds about right. I'm building an RV-8, not QB, Night VFR, 180
> HP, Fixed Pitch Prop, and my estim
> Sylvain Duford
> RV-8, Right Wing Skins
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Bill Lattimer" <billla(at)gte.net>
> To: "RV List Server"
> Subject: RV-List: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs
> Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 10:11:48 -0800
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
> initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I had done so before, but
> frankly hadn't considered every gauge and widget. For a QB,
> basic IFR capable, 180HP, constant speed RV I came up with
> ~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
>
>Doug,
>
>I am just now installing the second of my two capacitance-type fuel senders in
>the last-to-finish major component of my airplane, the left wing fuel tank. I
>have no actual experience with the accuracy of this type fuel sender, but
>capacitance-type senders are reputed to be very accurate, which is one reason
I
>chose to install them in the first place. The manufacturer of my fuel quantity
>system is Vision Microsystems. The fuel quantity gauge provides both analogue
>and digital readouts of fuel quantity in each tank in a standard 2"
>installation.
>
>The installation is far more tedious and time-consuming than the standard
>Stewart-Warner devices commonly used. Holes must be cut in five tank ribs to
>accommodate the senders, and the holes must be positioned with great accuracy.
>Moreover, one must design some way to support the end of the sender at the
>inboard rib. I did this with an aluminum plate (0.062" 6061T6) that I had
>welded to the fitting at the inboard end of the sender. The difficulty with
>this is that the plate must be accurately registered on the fitting and held
>there firmly during the welding. I drilled holes in the plate and fastened it
>to the inboard rib with three 1/8" rivets and the usual dose of ProSeal.
>
>I expect it to be a reliable and accurate fuel quantity system, but I must
>confess: it's a lot of extra hassle.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Jack Abell
>Los Angeles
>RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
>
>Seward747(at)aol.com wrote:
>
Do you have to 'isolate' the probe from the tank? The Skysports
system that I had for a while in my RV said, in the instructions, that
the probe cound NOT contact the tank anywhere except at the mounting
bracket. If I had mounted it as you are doing I would have had to use
plastic grommets (or whatever) to isolate the 1/4" diameter probe from
the ribs.
Is your system like that?
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Attach Brackets |
>
>Need suggestions for bending the F-696 fuel tank attach brackets which bolt to
>the fuselage on an RV-6. The manual says "The brackets will need a slight
>bend..." OK, sure, but Superman, I'm not. I've tried everything short of
>running over them with the car... HELP!
>
>Kyle Boatright
>RV-6 builder/aluminum scrap creator
Big vise, heavy mallet and block of wood (preferably a hardwood).
Place bracket in vise with wood on top of angle. Carefully, yet with
force, hit the wood with mallet. I used a 2 or 3 pound mallet.
Iffen that don't fix it then you got problems.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
>> RE: Wings and Fuel tank senders.
>> Capacitance type senders (as an option) was mentioned for the fuel tank
>> quantity indicators
>Some time ago, Dick Martin posted to the RV-list
>about his DIY capacitance senders. If I'd read his post before I bought
>my senders, I would have done it his way.
Dick"s post along with some other info can be found at
http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm
The DIY sounds quite a bit easier (and significantly less expensive) than
the other indicators I have been able to locate.
Larry
Finishing wings RV 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW- Observations about levels |
>
>Get a Smart Level. Not sure who makes it, but I got mine at home Depot for
>$100. No need to calibrate it, just turn it on, and it will tell you what
>angle you are holding it from "0", and which direction it has to go, no
>matter what.
The following is in bold print on page 3 of my SmartLevel (tm) instructions:
You also must recalibrate your SmartLevel REGULARLY to maintain its
accuracy.
I like mine a lot, but haven't found it all that useful for setting up jigs.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mdavidson(at)a1results.net |
| Subject: | Search Engine Registration |
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(800) 484-2621 X5568
________________________________________________________________________________
I looked at the size and the length in my instructions and am sorry to say I
had better pass. Thanks anyway.
Rollie
RV6A Working on Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
Listers,
I'm getting ready to put the gear leg fairings on my -6A. I have Tracy
Saylor's fiberglass fairings. I'm wondering whether or not to install the
wood molding shimmy dampener under Tracy's fairing. What's been
the experience of other -6 or -6A builders operating from hard
runways? Is the dampener needed?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
>That's $34K minimum, not including state/use taxes, etc.
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6Q, hanging engine).
>rvsixer(at)pacbell.net
Rob's numbers seem pretty accurate. I've run the numbers several times
with a basic night VFR equipped, mid-time engine and have come up with
$38k-$40k each time.
Bill(I am a simple man with only simple needs) Pagan
-8A runnin out of fuse parts
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
By the way, I just called Tracy Saylor. He says he's found that the -6
and -6A don't need the shimmy dampener wood, but the -4 does. His -
6 has no dampener, and he's not found that he needs it. Something
about the angles involved in the gear leg layout, he thinks.
Other experiences?
Tim
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FWIW- Observations about levels |
No, I didn't, but it is at least as accurate as my 6 ft level and it will
also tell me angles and I dont have to worry about lining up the little ball
between the lines. .1 deg is not necessary for building an airplane, or
that's what vans told me when I called them to complain about my .1 deg
fuselage twist!
Moe
>> Get a Smart Level. ..... Accurate to .1 deg.
>
>Did you actually measure the accuracy, Moe, or is it just that it "reads"
to a
>tenth of degree? I'm not questioning the accuracy but it is possible for
it to
>read in tenths but not be that accurate.
>
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
I was giving this post some thought and came to realize that so much of
what we put into our RV's we would probably put into anything we built. So
I guess what I am trying to say is that does building an RV cost that much,
or does building any plane that suits my mission cost that much? No matter
what I built to meet the mission, ie: fast cross country and some sport
aerobatics, I would still install the following.... O- or IO-360 engine,
IFR instruments, nice paint job, constant speed prop, night capability. Now
what airframes would accept these parts and perform like an RV? Well
Lancair's and Glassair's would but the kits cost so much more than an RV.
Or I could probably meet or surpass most of my needs with a Cozy or
Velocity. Na....don't like working with plastic! Anything else I could
think of wouldn't give nearly the bang for the buck that the RV does, and
any used certified plane would probably cost me as much in Maint. and
inefficient performance as any savings I might get in price. No I think if
your gonna play in this league, NOTHING beats an RV! The airframe kit is
still relatively inexpensive and I would still have to buy ALL the rest of
the stuff for any other plane I would choose. AL
>
>I just ran some very serious numbers trying to put an
>initial cost estimate on my RV-8. I had done so before, but
>frankly hadn't considered every gauge and widget. For a QB,
>basic IFR capable, 180HP, constant speed RV I came up with
>~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Aileron push tube |
RVer's,
Recently, I did an inspection on a RV. Something about the steel aileron
push tubes didn't look right. These are the short tubes that go from the
aileron bellcrank to the ailerons. Each threaded end fitting is riveted
with two rivets on each end. This builder had drilled the end fittings on
and riveted them and had not disassembled after drilling to debur or
corrosion proof the inside of the tube. Had he disassembled the assembly,
he would have discovered that he'd missed the threaded insert with one rivet
on each end. In other words, he had only one rivet per end instead of the
two specified in the plans. I would have thought that everyone
disassembles these assemblies and would discover if there was an "uh oh"
but, evidently not.
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
Hi John,
Yes, my probes are isolated from the tank by nylon inserts in each of the holes
in
the four center ribs, and they are cut off just short of the outboard rib.
Best wishes,
Jack Abell
Los Angeles
RV-6A N333JA (Reserved)
ammeterj(at)home.com wrote:
> Do you have to 'isolate' the probe from the tank? The Skysports
> system that I had for a while in my RV said, in the instructions, that
> the probe cound NOT contact the tank anywhere except at the mounting
> bracket. If I had mounted it as you are doing I would have had to use
> plastic grommets (or whatever) to isolate the 1/4" diameter probe from
> the ribs.
>
> Is your system like that?
>
> John Ammeter
> Seattle WA
> USA
> 1975 JH-5
> RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Cowling Filler |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
The manual for the RV-8 refers to using Evercoat Rage body filler,
thinned with small amounts of acetone to fill the pinholes in the cowling
and other epoxy parts. My advice is; don't! I did this, and even with
the smallest amount of acetone added to the filler, it would not set-up
hard enough for sanding. I mixed with hardener according to directions,
of course. Even after allowing to dry for two days at room temperature,
it remained gummy, and took alot of extra work and sandpaper to get it
all off. The local body shop says this is typical when you add thinners
such as this to body fillers, and says this should never be done. Most
of the body fillers seem to be too thick to effectively and quickly fill
the millions of pinholes in the epoxy parts. I am thinking of using a
spray-on primer filler. Any recommendations here? Smearing a
semi-thick auto-body filler on the curved surfaces of these parts is a
real pain, seems like there has to be a better way! Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Outside Air Respirator |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
I have decided to paint my RV-8 myself, and am aware of the need to use a
fresh air respirator for the new paints with hardeners. Where do I get
these respirators? I plan to paint the airplane in pieces and over a
period of a week or two, so it would probably not be practical to rent
one. Where is the least expensive source for these? It seems like some
time ago I saw instructions somewhere for making your own, but I am not
sure. Any ideas?
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: lider spacers |
>
>Installing the slider for the RV6A, everything seems to be turning out
>reasnably well EXCEPT Ive had to use up to one half inch spacers and
>smaller on the slider tube that butts up against the roll bar. Vans
>has
>longer pop rivets for this but dont know if I like this or not.
>anyone
>been there.
>
>
>fusleage/canopy
>planejoe(at)flnet.com
>
>
>
Is the area that you need to shim the most, acrossed the top?
If so you can raise up the frame by using spacers (make them with a
unibit step drill and scrap aluminum) of different thicknesses placed
between the frame and the roller brackets. It is not a requirement that
the frame sit down flush on the roller bracket (my experience has shown
that it usually doesn't). When you get it were you want it using the
spacers to position it temporarily, then drill the holes for the bolts to
lock it in place.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
>
>RE: Wings and Fuel tank senders.
> Capacitance type senders (as an option) was mentioned for the fuel
>tank
>quantity indicators. Anybody have brand recommendations, ones to
>avoid,
>lessons learned, etc. on this subject???
> BTW, other wing options you might want to consider are pitot heat,
>underwing NACA duct for cabin ventilation, wing tip locker/storage
>compartment.
>
>Doug Seward
>-4, Seattle, wings
>
>
>
I will deny having told anyone about this so please don't swamp the
office at Van's with calls about it until you see it announced in the
RVator (next issue I believe).
Ken K, one of the engineers at Van's has been working with the people at
Electronics International to develop a capacitive system for the E.I.
digital fuel level instrument.
The system is very simple (an alum. plate slightly smaller than the tank
rib installed in each end of the tank), should be less expensive than
using the long capacitive probes, and should give accurate fuel
indications at any pitch attitude in the normal climb/decent range.
Other than what I have written above there is not much else to tell.
Don't know when available or how much it will cost.
Wait by your mail box for the next RVator coming soon.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
>I've been trying to contact Tom Schweitz of Aero Engines to have him
>build up an O-360 for me, but am having great difficulty maintaining a
>
>line of communication. We did chat a couple of weeks ago about what I
>was looking for and what he had in stock (no core at that time) but
>have
>not heard back from him. Are good, run-out 360 cores that hard to
>find?
>Or, should I look elsewhere? I'd love to just have Bart Lalonde work
>his magic, but can't afford the $15k he charges. Since I live in the
>southwest, are there any reputable engine folks down here that could
>help out a budget-minded RV builder with a rebuild, or mid-time engine
>
>sourcing and checkout?
>
>Thanks
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 #379
>
>
Brian,
O-360's are generally less prevalent as used engines so they are usually
harder to find, and as a result cost more (first time runout often get
between $7 & $8 thousand U.S.).
I'm not saying they can't be found, but they are less common than
O-320's.
Add to this another 7 or 8 thousand for a quality name over haul and it
makes the new engine price not seem quite so bad (though still way out of
my reach).
I think Bart's quoted prices are for an engine with a new crankshaft.
If you are doing an overhaul on an engine with all the major components
reusable, I think the price would be lower.
Give him a call and see what he says.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Cowling Filler |
I'm not sure if it would work, but there is a red putty that comes in a tube
called glazing putty, I've used it oncor paint jobs and it works fine, it has
a rather consistancy like toothpaste , but dries rapidly. Ask your auto paint
guy.
Brian Trubee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Cowling Filler |
Have you tried the new filler that is 2-part? I tried to buy featherfill the
other day, and since osha got into the act, I can't buy it anymore...instead
they gave me a new substitute that has a catalast, and it works GREAT! I'm
even thinging about using it on fabrick, just to find out what happens...you
might want to try it...jolly
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
> The manual for the RV-8 refers to using Evercoat Rage body filler,
> thinned with small amounts of acetone to fill the pinholes in the cowling
> and other epoxy parts. My advice is; don't! I did this, and even with
> the smallest amount of acetone added to the filler, it would not set-up
> hard enough for sanding. I mixed with hardener according to directions,
> of course. Even after allowing to dry for two days at room temperature,
> it remained gummy, and took alot of extra work and sandpaper to get it
> all off. The local body shop says this is typical when you add thinners
> such as this to body fillers, and says this should never be done. Most
> of the body fillers seem to be too thick to effectively and quickly fill
> the millions of pinholes in the epoxy parts. I am thinking of using a
> spray-on primer filler. Any recommendations here? Smearing a
> semi-thick auto-body filler on the curved surfaces of these parts is a
> real pain, seems like there has to be a better way! Thanks.
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Outside Air Respirator |
Hobby Air is a good one, and inexpensive. See Sport Aviation for an ad.
Seems to me it is made in the Chicago area. I'll try to get the
particulars to you.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q 4 hrs and smiling.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with any
precision either. How do they help?
And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the jig,
but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the parts
together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
to move around by the pressure of the skin.
Regargs
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
Listers,
After reading several of your posts, I feel a lot better about my -6A.
Mine is going to be night capable, has a full panel of analog gauges
and flight instruments, one gps/com, transponder with modec, etc. My
engine is a rebuilt to new specs 150HP Lyc with new metal prop. At
the moment, I've spent about $42K on the airframe and am shooting for
under $45K. Now, if I add in incidentals and tools that I've purchased
along the way, that goes up to about $50K. I considered that a bit
over what I'd seen in the past and attributed most of the gain to
inflation, which seems to run much higher in the aircraft industry than in
the rest of the world.
With careful looking around, I was able to purchase everything firewall
forward, to include the purchase and rebuild of my engine, for less than
the price of a new O320 from Van's. Used engines can be found if one
is willing to take the time to look for them. My engine rebuild included
recertified crankcase with Ney nozzles, recertified crank and cam, new
oil pump and housing, rebuilt cylinders, etc. I have a new light weight
starter, new Slick mags, new fuel pump, etc. Maybe that'll help some
behind me to make their decision. Laying the cash for a new engine
has got to be a heart stopper. With the used engine, one can lay out
for the parts in smaller amounts and keep the heart pumping. :-)
As for the panel, I decided on simple 2 1/4" analog gauges. Yeah,
they took up a good portion of the panel because I have 11 of them;
but, they look fine. I have 8 3 1/8" instruments/gauges, as well. That
really took up the space. Still, I had enough room for the nav/com, the
transponder, the ELT monitor, the moving map, and the intercom. No
room for a glove box. :-)
So, with all of the above, and with an inexpensive paint job, I should
hold to my goals. I feel sorry for you guys who've hit $70K. The $45
will be bad enough for this retiree. :-) One nice thing, I'm going to be
able to recoup most of my cost by selling my AA-5A Cheetah when all is
said and done. That'll keep Momma happy. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
AA-5A N26276
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Cowling Filler |
Von,
I have always used laquer primer surfacer brushed into
the pin holes. Easy to sand it off!
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
In a message dated 12/9/98 11:17:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, pagan(at)CBOSS.COM
writes:
<< Rob's numbers seem pretty accurate. I've run the numbers several times
with a basic night VFR equipped, mid-time engine and have come up with
$38k-$40k each time. >>
Hey guys, let's not get too excited here. The amount it costs to build one of
these puppies is directly proportional to how much work you want to do
yourself. I will have about 25K in my -4 but I shopped around and bought all
the instruments used, did an auto conversion (LOTS of work but saved 8-10K
over new Lyc.), I am going to paint it and do the interior myself (save about
2-3K), and only VFR panel w/no Gyro insts. The amount spent is going to expand
to fill the amount of $ you have, if you let it. Don't let keeping up with the
Jones' influence YOUR cost.
Just one poor man's opinion.
Regards, Merle
RV-4 N727MM Chevy Power
(God, I hope I don't have to trade TOO much more time for money)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dean Casey <dean_biz(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outside Air Respirator |
Sears, Western Auto, pretty much any good hardware store -- PLEASE DO
NOT even try to fool around with a home-made respirator. The fumes we
are talking about build up in the body over time, and can cause severe
physical harm if they should reach toxic levels. Air-line respirators
are so cheap, relative to the cost/consequences of not using them. Why
take chances with your health like that?
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
>
> I have decided to paint my RV-8 myself, and am aware of the need to use a
> fresh air respirator for the new paints with hardeners. Where do I get
> these respirators? I plan to paint the airplane in pieces and over a
> period of a week or two, so it would probably not be practical to rent
> one. Where is the least expensive source for these? It seems like some
> time ago I saw instructions somewhere for making your own, but I am not
> sure. Any ideas?
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | foward spar, RV-8 |
Hi. When drilling my 814 to the forward spars, it slips a little
bit and is not perfectly straight. The offset is about 1/16
of an inch from one side to the other. Is this going to be a
big problem? I am mostly concerned about safety and loss of
strength.
The 810 and 814 are 3 1/4" apart as close as I can get.
regards,
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
Listers,
I've been following this thread closely, as I am considering using the
capacitance style senders. My question to the more knowledgeable is:
What are the effects of av and mo gas on the various insulating
materials available? Over time, will the fuel break them down? Make them
brittle? Cause them to warp? Since after the fact replacement would be
difficult, I'd like to chose the best material the first time. Thanks
Charlie Kuss
RV8 wings
Boca Raton, Fl.
> Yes, my probes are isolated from the tank by nylon inserts in each of the holes
in
> the four center ribs, and they are cut off just short of the outboard rib.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jack Abell
> > Do you have to 'isolate' the probe from the tank? The Skysports
> > system that I had for a while in my RV said, in the instructions, that
> > the probe cound NOT contact the tank anywhere except at the mounting
> > bracket. If I had mounted it as you are doing I would have had to use
> > plastic grommets (or whatever) to isolate the 1/4" diameter probe from
> > the ribs.
> >
> > Is your system like that?
> >
> > John Ammeter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
I've often wondered this myself. It seems like you'd have to go out
of your way to misalign things when everything is prepunched. So far,
I've not had the courage to stray to far from the instructions and not
use the jigs though. If Van's says the jigs are needed - who am I to
say otherwise? Besides, why increase the chances of messin' things up
and having to do something over?
-Larry, RV-8, left elev.
larry(at)bowen.com
http://larry.bowen.com
---Tim Sewell wrote:
>
>
>
> I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
> control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
> already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with
any
> precision either. How do they help?
>
> And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
> I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
> bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
> punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the jig,
> but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the
parts
> together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
>
> Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
> level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
> to move around by the pressure of the skin.
>
> Regargs
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
=
Larry Bowen
larry(at)bowen.com
http://larry.bowen.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
Let the holy wars begin. :)
Tim, despite your magical ability to eyeball the alignment of your
parts, pre-punching does not gaurantee perfection. Sorry, the sarcasm
was not intended to flame you but to impress you with the idea that
parts are not self-aligning. I cannot believe that you did not somehow
fix your root ribs' alignment relative to each other and the tips before
skinning - whether you did so on a table or an upright fixture, it still
constitutes a jig. If you did not, then you need to check those
alignments - by measurement, not by eye - and then take any
discrepancies to your nearest EAA tech counselor for advice. Chances
are that any problems are correctable; your eyeballs are at least that
good.:) The jigs we build do not have to be precise or straight as long
as they hold the parts in alignment. For all the time that we spend
aligning our jigs, once construction begins it is more important to
check the alignment of parts constantly. It is possible to misalign
parts in a perfect jig; conversly, it is possible to have perfect
alignment of parts in a crooked jig. Which would YOU prefer?
That said, a nice jig does make the process easier. How much you are
willing to spend on your ease is up to you.
PatK - RV-6A
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
> I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
> control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
> already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with any
> precision either. How do they help?
>
> And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
> I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
> bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
> punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the jig,
> but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the parts
> together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
>
> Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
> level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
> to move around by the pressure of the skin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Kuebler" <skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
Tim,
As I was building my tail I also questioned the need for jigs with the pre-punched
kits. (although I used them anyway) One conclusion I came up with is that
they are just a carry-over from the original kits (non-pre-punched)
I have thought about this more and have come up with two conditions that would
still require the jigs:
1.) HS & VS rear spar- the hinge holes must line up perfectly in order to have
full travel with no binding on the elevator or rudder. Even with pre-drilled
holes the layout and final drilling could set them off of centerline just a hair,
which is just enough
2.) Control surfaces- even though the skins and spar are pre-punched if one of
the end ribs are riveted on at an angle or slightly askew the skin isn't strong
enough to pull them into alignment. Also, before I used Van's V-blocks I
measured them and the came out perfectly centered, not bad for a wood saw.
But as for everything else with the jigs, (plumb, centered, tip rib attach brackets)
I don't believe they are necessary with the pre-punched kits, but like I
said before, because I'm a cautious person I complied anyway.
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
RV-6a
>>> "Tim Sewell" 12/10/98 03:52AM >>>
I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with any
precision either. How do they help?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: foward spar, RV-8 |
I'm right at the point where I have to drill the VS to the 814/810. Back when I
built that assembly, I didn't get it right either, and I went back and re-built
it. Now, as I mount the tail to my fuselage, everything is fitting perfectly and
I'm glad I did. Tonight I'll get a picture of the assembly on my web page, so
you can see how it all mounts, and then decide what you want to do based on
where the error is. You can make just about anything work, but a few extra hours
here can save you alot of trouble later. Keep in mind that once that spar is
riveted inside the HS, and the HS is completed, there is not much you can do to
adjust it. This is also a fairly critical assembly. The location of these two
angles determines the edge distance on your tail attach bolts.
Now, having scared you with all that, if the 810 is in the proper position, and
the 814 is only 1/16" off, and if you run a string down the center of the spar,
and measure the position of both angles as shown in the Orndorf video, and
everything else matches up as it should EXCEPT the 814, then you should be OK.
My advice is to talk to another experienced builder about this. Go look at my
web page tonight and look in my "currect progress" section. I'll put pictures of
the tail assembly there. 1/16" is only 1/32" on either side, and that is not
such a big deal, as long as everything else is matched up.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
> Hi. When drilling my 814 to the forward spars, it slips a little
> bit and is not perfectly straight. The offset is about 1/16
> of an inch from one side to the other. Is this going to be a
> big problem? I am mostly concerned about safety and loss of
> strength.
>
> The 810 and 814 are 3 1/4" apart as close as I can get.
>
> regards,
>
> Tim
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Partain" <aviator(at)tseinc.com> |
For Sale 1995 RV-4 185 TTSN , 0320 D1A 160 HP, 185TTSN , Hartzell C/S Prop
185 TTSN, K/N Air Filter, Stainless exhaust pipes with crossover . Single
heater muff. Carburetor heat. Alternator cooling tube, Magneto cooling
tubes, Piper oil cooler, Fuel primer.
Terra 760D Com ,Terra 250D xpdr ,Apollo 360 moving map GPS ,ELT , PSII 1000
intercom, Vertical card compass, Altimeter, VSI ,Electronics International
CHT EGT OAT , Oil Pressure, Fuel pressure, Amp/Volt meter, Electronic Tach,
Lighting on All instruments with dimmer switch.
Navigation Lights, Rear position light, Strobes on wing tips, Dual landing
Lights enclosed in wing tips, Electric Flaps, Locking canopy (keyed same as
ignition), Wood stick grip,
Cabin heat with front and rear outlets, Two fresh air vents located on
canopy skirt.
Professional Paint, White with Blue stripping, Interior panels light Grey
with medium Grey Leather seats
Temper foam, Dark Gray Carpet , Firewall
insulation ,CD player
This is a very nice plane, always kept in a hanger and professionally
maintained. All avionics purchased new November 1996 and installed
professionally.
All plans and instrument documentation. Complete Logs
Cruise 187 mph @ 8.5 gph
Annual due 8/98
$52,000.00
Price includes 8/98 annual (Inspection Complete)
Tony Partain
314-894-0828
Saint Louis MO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
Pat,
Thanks for the information. Could you tell me how I could measure
my stabilizer for straightness?
Thanks
Tim
>From owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Thu Dec 10 05:58:25 1998
>Received: from [207.171.250.179] by hotmail.com (1.0) with SMTP id
MHotMail30907510261733506532470348415454728390; Thu Dec 10 05:58:25 1998
> by matronics.com (8.8.8/Matronics-1.2) id FAA03567
>Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:48:42 -0600
>From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Jigs? Why do I need jigs?
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Message-id: <366FD13A.8C90BD5(at)megsinet.net>
>References: <19981210085215.2595.qmail(at)hotmail.com>
>Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>Let the holy wars begin. :)
>
>Tim, despite your magical ability to eyeball the alignment of your
>parts, pre-punching does not gaurantee perfection. Sorry, the sarcasm
>was not intended to flame you but to impress you with the idea that
>parts are not self-aligning. I cannot believe that you did not somehow
>fix your root ribs' alignment relative to each other and the tips
before
>skinning - whether you did so on a table or an upright fixture, it
still
>constitutes a jig. If you did not, then you need to check those
>alignments - by measurement, not by eye - and then take any
>discrepancies to your nearest EAA tech counselor for advice. Chances
>are that any problems are correctable; your eyeballs are at least that
>good.:) The jigs we build do not have to be precise or straight as
long
>as they hold the parts in alignment. For all the time that we spend
>aligning our jigs, once construction begins it is more important to
>check the alignment of parts constantly. It is possible to misalign
>parts in a perfect jig; conversly, it is possible to have perfect
>alignment of parts in a crooked jig. Which would YOU prefer?
>
>That said, a nice jig does make the process easier. How much you are
>willing to spend on your ease is up to you.
>
>PatK - RV-6A
>
>Tim Sewell wrote:
>>
>> I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
>> control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
>> already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with
any
>> precision either. How do they help?
>>
>> And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
>> I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
>> bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
>> punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the
jig,
>> but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the
parts
>> together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
>>
>> Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
>> level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
>> to move around by the pressure of the skin.
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)arlington.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Fuselage Jig |
Following posting was on rec.aviation.homebuilt::
One more try with this - I have an RV-4 fuselage jig I no longer need.
It's wood, built to Van's drawings, glued and screwed. Breaks down into
two halves so it'd probably fit in a pickup. Located in southern MD.
Any takers?
Dave 'the jig is up' Hyde
nauga(at)glue.umd.edu
RAH15/?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
Pat,
Thanks for the information. Could you tell me how I could measure
my stabilizer for straightness?
Thanks
Tim
>From owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Thu Dec 10 05:58:25 1998
>Received: from [207.171.250.179] by hotmail.com (1.0) with SMTP id
MHotMail30907510261733506532470348415454728390; Thu Dec 10 05:58:25 1998
> by matronics.com (8.8.8/Matronics-1.2) id FAA03567
>Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:48:42 -0600
>From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Jigs? Why do I need jigs?
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Message-id: <366FD13A.8C90BD5(at)megsinet.net>
>References: <19981210085215.2595.qmail(at)hotmail.com>
>Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>Let the holy wars begin. :)
>
>Tim, despite your magical ability to eyeball the alignment of your
>parts, pre-punching does not gaurantee perfection. Sorry, the sarcasm
>was not intended to flame you but to impress you with the idea that
>parts are not self-aligning. I cannot believe that you did not somehow
>fix your root ribs' alignment relative to each other and the tips
before
>skinning - whether you did so on a table or an upright fixture, it
still
>constitutes a jig. If you did not, then you need to check those
>alignments - by measurement, not by eye - and then take any
>discrepancies to your nearest EAA tech counselor for advice. Chances
>are that any problems are correctable; your eyeballs are at least that
>good.:) The jigs we build do not have to be precise or straight as
long
>as they hold the parts in alignment. For all the time that we spend
>aligning our jigs, once construction begins it is more important to
>check the alignment of parts constantly. It is possible to misalign
>parts in a perfect jig; conversly, it is possible to have perfect
>alignment of parts in a crooked jig. Which would YOU prefer?
>
>That said, a nice jig does make the process easier. How much you are
>willing to spend on your ease is up to you.
>
>PatK - RV-6A
>
>Tim Sewell wrote:
>>
>> I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
>> control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
>> already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with
any
>> precision either. How do they help?
>>
>> And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
>> I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
>> bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
>> punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the
jig,
>> but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the
parts
>> together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
>>
>> Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
>> level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
>> to move around by the pressure of the skin.
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
<< I'm getting ready to put the gear leg fairings on my -6A. I have Tracy
Saylor's fiberglass fairings. I'm wondering whether or not to install the
wood molding shimmy dampener under Tracy's fairing. What's been
the experience of other -6 or -6A builders operating from hard
runways? Is the dampener needed? >>
Tim-
I have the pine wood strips (per plans) installed on the main and nose gear
trailing edges with fiberglass wrap and vinylester resin and the damping is
very good. I would imagine that no damping on the Wittman gear would be quite
springy. I have Tracy's gear leg fairings too.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV Costs |
>At the moment, I've spent about $42K on the airframe and am shooting for
>under $45K. Now, if I add in incidentals and tools that I've purchased
>along the way, that goes up to about $50K.
Is THIS what I spent on mine? I have never added it all up. I hope this
thread ends soon or Kelli is going to start reading these and I'll wind up
with a big knot on the top of my head.
Several things to consider: This expense is spread out over several (many,
in some cases) years; You cannot get a better airplane at ANY price; You
will have built this airplane YOURSELF. Not many people can say that. There
are other airplanes you can build/buy that go a little faster, hold more,
land slower, etc., but the RV series is THE BEST VALUE in homebuilt aircraft
today.
Now: order that tail kit.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Glad I built mine!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Outside Air Respirator |
>Hobby Air is a good one, and inexpensive. See Sport Aviation for an ad.
I have one. Got it at OSH oh, excuse me AirVenture several years ago and
REALLY like it. You don't realize how well it's working until you take it
off and suddenly smell PAINT. The hose is long enough to get to most of what
you want to do. Kind of a pain to drag the hose around with you everywhere,
but WELL worth it.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Update on engine source |
Greetings listers,
Thankyou all so much for the sage advice and support on finding an
engine! Now, I have almost TOO many alternatives. I've contacted a
rebuilder in Virginia who advertises in EAA Sport Aviation, and he was
very responsive, and immediately faxed me a "menu" of options to choose
from. It appears that a O time (to new limits), 180hp O-360, dynafocal,
rebuilt carb and mags, fuel pump, flywheel, with new harness and plugs
will cost about $13k delivered. (shipping that thing to New Mexico costs
big bucks!) Now, this is getting mighty close to what Bart charges for
one, and I plan to check with him to compare "apples to apples" with
this quote.
Thanks again for all the support folks, where would I be without you
guys? ;)
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
rigging elevator controls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: percent power instrument |
>
>Mark,
>
>
>I would be interested in seeing info on a percent power guage if you can
>come up with some. I have often wished for just such a device. the
>turbine boys have it easy here.
>
>
>Regards, Bill Davis
>
Bill,
Just because turbine gauges are calibrated in percent, they still read
nothing more than RPMs and that does not directly correspond to power. To
determine percent power you must consider, N1, N2 (if a two shaft engine)
and altitude just like a recip.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
I found that having the HS and VS in the jig allowed me to constantly check
for accuracy of my work. when all is said and done and you have finished
these pieces, it is good to know that you have check and rechecked and
rechecked again and that you are confident that you have done the best job
possible for these control surfaced. You will never have to second guess.
Just my thoughts as a first time builder
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push tube |
If I remember correctly, the plans call for more than 2 rivets, I think its
>
>RVer's,
>
> Recently, I did an inspection on a RV. Something about the steel aileron
>push tubes didn't look right. These are the short tubes that go from the
>aileron bellcrank to the ailerons. Each threaded end fitting is riveted
>with two rivets on each end. This builder had drilled the end fittings on
>and riveted them and had not disassembled after drilling to debur or
>corrosion proof the inside of the tube. Had he disassembled the assembly,
>he would have discovered that he'd missed the threaded insert with one rivet
>on each end. In other words, he had only one rivet per end instead of the
>two specified in the plans. I would have thought that everyone
>disassembles these assemblies and would discover if there was an "uh oh"
>but, evidently not.
>
>Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Finger Spacers for baffles |
--------------BAE65116F29B4E693C5816C5
Ok, I give up. What the heck is a finger spacer. Van's baffle
instructions mentions the use of a finger spacer for attachment of the
left rear baffle to the engine case. It looks as if a short piece of
6061T6 tube would work, but would be a little hard to install.
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993 Cowling/baffling
--------------BAE65116F29B4E693C5816C5
name="zilik.vcf"
filename="zilik.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Zilik;Gary
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:zilik(at)bewellnet.com
fn:Gary Zilik
end:vcard
--------------BAE65116F29B4E693C5816C5--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push tube |
--------------686397DF607F548317097D58
Bob Skinner wrote:
> Had he disassembled the assembly,
> he would have discovered that he'd missed the threaded insert with one rivet
> on each end. In other words, he had only one rivet per end
Yikes! I plan on having mine welded in place.
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993 cowling/baffles
--------------686397DF607F548317097D58
name="zilik.vcf"
filename="zilik.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Zilik;Gary
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:zilik(at)bewellnet.com
fn:Gary Zilik
end:vcard
--------------686397DF607F548317097D58--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: percent power instrument |
>>
>>I would be interested in seeing info on a percent power guage if you can
>>come up with some. I have often wished for just such a device. the
>>turbine boys have it easy here.
>>Regards, Bill Davis
Sorry about jumping in here....check www.technologykitchen.com for a percent
power gauge (of course it also shows RPM and MP, and also OAT, ALT, DA, PA,
tach time, flight time)...$699.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)mediaone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ordering wings |
Charlie and Other Listers,
I hate to use bandwidth to say this, but I don't know the answers to Charlie's
questions. My assumption would be that VMI would not use material for insulating
the
probe that would later break down, but I'm no chemist. My suggestion is to call
VMI and
discuss your concerns with one of their technical consultants: (360) 398-1833.
Jack Abell
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
> Listers,
> I've been following this thread closely, as I am considering using the
> capacitance style senders. My question to the more knowledgeable is:
> What are the effects of av and mo gas on the various insulating
> materials available? Over time, will the fuel break them down? Make them
> brittle? Cause them to warp? Since after the fact replacement would be
> difficult, I'd like to chose the best material the first time. Thanks
> Charlie Kuss
>
> > Yes, my probes are isolated from the tank by nylon inserts in each of the holes
in
> > the four center ribs, and they are cut off just short of the outboard rib.
> >
> > Jack Abell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Reality Check on RV Costs |
There are other costs, too. I spent the last four years building and have
now almost what the guys who are starting a quick build kit start out with.
Along the way I stopped going to the airport for flying. I'm down to 10-20
hours per year and declining. I learned a lot about how airplanes are
built, but I also taught myself how to not fly when the weather is nice. A
person with more sense that I have would take the $35-70,000 and buy a plane
with it so he could fly while he can, then build one of these RV's after he
retires and has time on his hands. But what do I know? I like the look of
this aluminum thing in the shop. Maybe someday it will even fly ...
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
Building the sub-panel and wondering how the instrument panel fits in there
'cause the manual doesn't say and the plans only show the side view ... and
how I'm going to figure out whether or not the rudder pedals are too close
or too far before I get too far with the front fuselage stuff ... and how to
move all the stuff around in the shop so that I can get the HS on the
fuselage ..........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push tube |
Mine were welded.
Cost: $ 1 beer.
Gary Corde
RV6 N211GC - NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Capacitance sender isolator |
Charlie and anyone else interested,
I used raw circuit board material (G-10, I think) for an insulating material pop
riveted to a rib in a couple of places. I wasn't sure it would hold up so I
covered it in proseal. No more concern.
Laird RV-6 #22923 finish kit
>My question to the more knowledgeable is:
What are the effects of av and mo gas on the various insulating
materials available? Over time, will the fuel break them down? Make them
brittle? Cause them to warp? Since after the fact replacement would be
difficult, I'd like to chose the best material the first time. Thanks
Charlie Kuss<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com> |
Gary I just did this on my baffles, I didn't know the term either, I
just made a spacer out of alum. block and sawed a flange on it so it
looked like a one leg nutplate and riveted it on aft side of rear baffle
with a nut plate on the inside. Can install a cap screw with socket and
extension.
good luck]
Wayne RV-4 collecting parts to replace accessory case.
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> Ok, I give up. What the heck is a finger spacer. Van's baffle
> instructions mentions the use of a finger spacer for attachment of the
> left rear baffle to the engine case. It looks as if a short piece of
> 6061T6 tube would work, but would be a little hard to install.
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on engine source |
--------------9536F4912EC018F3F79B4599
Brian Denk wrote:
180hp O-360, dynafocal,
> rebuilt carb and mags, fuel pump, flywheel, with new harness and plugs
> will cost about $13k delivered. (shipping that thing to New Mexico costs
> big bucks!)
Shipping of my O-360-A1A from Kamloops, BC to Denver, CO. in a very nice
wooden crate cost $258.00.
Gary Zilik
--------------9536F4912EC018F3F79B4599
name="zilik.vcf"
filename="zilik.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Zilik;Gary
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:zilik(at)bewellnet.com
fn:Gary Zilik
end:vcard
--------------9536F4912EC018F3F79B4599--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Outside Air Respirator |
EAA's magazine Experimenter had a feature on a homemade airline respirator in
a recent issue(October?). It even included part numbers to take to your Home
Depot. It used a squirrel cage bathroom fan, a 24' plastic hose and a
modified canister-type respirator. I've had an old small squirrel cage blower
lying around and plan to build a box for it with an intake using a piece of
furnace filter and and a discharge which will be connected to the plastic
hose. The hose will be attached to the disposable type respirator. I've
checked it out and get real good airflow. I don't think it will cost more
than $10-$30 depending what you have lying around. Compare that to the cost
of the units for sale and decide what's best for you. Like most listers, I
don't want to breathe the fumes. I haven't used it yet, but I'm sure others
on this list have done something similar. Good Luck
T. Black
RV-8 planning and dreaming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Beaton <kevin.beaton(at)usaa.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Engines help |
Bart does work magic! I cannot say enough good things about my experiences
in dealing with Bart Lalonde and Aero Sport Engines. I have received the
engine and it looks great and the attention to detail is evident. I really
stressed over the engine decision, and did my homework. I really feel good
about the decision to go with Bart.
Kevin Beaton
RV6A
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk [SMTP:akroguy(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 12:35 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Aero Engines help
Greetings,
I've been trying to contact Tom Schweitz of Aero Engines to have him
build up an O-360 for me, but am having great difficulty maintaining
a
line of communication. We did chat a couple of weeks ago about what
I
was looking for and what he had in stock (no core at that time) but
have
not heard back from him. Are good, run-out 360 cores that hard to
find?
Or, should I look elsewhere? I'd love to just have Bart Lalonde
work
his magic, but can't afford the $15k he charges. Since I live in the
southwest, are there any reputable engine folks down here that could
help out a budget-minded RV builder with a rebuild, or mid-time
engine
sourcing and checkout?
Thanks
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Reality Check on RV Costs |
Correction: I spent the last three years building. The fourth year will not
be up until the Fall, 1999.
Steve
-----Original Message----- I spent the last four years
building .....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Pulley Size |
--------------272426A3CFC27F236F197CA5
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
> I had a fellow RVer visit my project today, and he recommended that I
> change the pulley on my alternator from the 2 1/2" size that is on my
> engine (Aero Sport 0-360, Nippo alternator) to a 4". He said that with
> the small pulley, the rpm's of the alternator would be something like
> 6,000 rpm's, and would create unecessary heat and wear in the alternator.
> Apparently Aero Sport is just supplyiing the small pulley that comes
> with the alternator and made for automotive use.
> Comments? Should I change this?
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
I believe this to be one of those myhths that just won't die. There are two
size flywheel pulleys on Lycomings which further aggravates teh conjectures! I
do believe you could argue this one longer than the primer question!
However, if you do decide to go with the larger pulley for reduced bearing wear
and less horsepower used for electricity, give me a call as I have a beautiful
large aluminum pulley which is for sale at a discount. It was only used for
twenty hours, and was replaced after teh alternator failed, with a small cheap
ugly one and a fan.
D Walsh
--------------272426A3CFC27F236F197CA5
--------------272426A3CFC27F236F197CA5--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
--------------59BACD649428C27ED41A951B
Yohannes Kayir wrote:
>
> Fellow Denver area Listers,
>
> on December 18 I will be starting a family trip to Colorado for 2 weeks.
> During the first week we will be in the Southwest (Telluride/Ouray) area. We
> will spend the second week (December 25-31) staying with my inlaws in Denver.
>
> I would very much like to visit with fellow RV'ers. Naturally reciprocation
> here in Pensacola goes without saying. In fact you may want to plan your next
> Sun and Fun trip such that you can stop and stay with us on your way down or
up.
>
> Yohannes Kayir
> Pensacola, FL
> RV-4, Canopy/skirts
Yo, Yohannes!
Didn't see your post as I was on a trip to Florida and just got back.
Give me a call when you get to Denver. We have many Rv ators in the area and I
can
give you some phone numbers. I live in South east Denver. 303-756-6543
D L Walsh. RV-6A, 360 hours
>
>
--------------59BACD649428C27ED41A951B
--------------59BACD649428C27ED41A951B--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge |
--------------AF5D11C573DF7F9D70598EDE
Leo Davies wrote:
>
> >
> >A couple of weeks ago I submitted a post regarding a sticking manifold
> >pressure gauge.
> >I flew today and it is working fine. I removed it a couple of weeks ago
> >and took it home into a warm kitchen. I let it sit for about 12 hours in
> >the flat position. Inlet hole down on a paper towel. Amazing how much
> >blue residue (fuel) came on to the towel. I then put it in the oven and
> >set it for minimum (150 degreesF) turned the oven off when it reached 150
> >and let it cool and then did it again. I got out about as much again as I
> >had previously. It appears to be working okay today. I did install a small
> >( about the size of a roll of dimes) auto gas filter in the line between my
> >#3 cylinder and the gauge. Hope this helps. Some sort of filter to keep
> >gas dye from getting to the gauge is desirable.
> >FWIW
> >
> >Ken Hoshowski C-FKEH RV6 First flight sept 8/93
> >Salmon Arm B.C.
>
> Ken,
>
> I think there must be an underlying fault. Manifold pressure should be
> atmospheric or less so that there shouldn't be any tendency to blow
> fuel/air mix along the line. The gauge should also be sealed so that
> nothing should move along the line even if the manifold pressure went
> transiently positive (Back fire perhaps). Perhaps someone with more
> experience than mine will recognize the symptom. I'm sure a filter on the
> manifold pressure line is not a usual requirement.
>
> Leo Davies
>
Yo Leo. I offer this as a plausible non technical explanation which worked on
me:
When you shut the engine down, the manifold pressure is very low (high
vacuum). As the engine quits pumping, you have created a good suck chamber at
teh manifold pressure gage. This suction source hurls the contents of the tube
(which starts at the low point of your manifold) toward the gage. If your
gage is lower than the manifold (most RVs), the damp crud from the manifold
will wind up there, in ever increasing amounts, with each shut down.
If you too buy this story, then a sump, or other collector installed in the
line at a lower point than the gage, will help prevent the crud from gettign to
the gage.
There are other approaches to solving the problem, such as a drain, or a vent
pin hole in a loop in the line, but in my next airplane, I am going to install
the MP gage as high as possible as start.
D (non technical) Walsh. with a gas filter in the line.
--------------AF5D11C573DF7F9D70598EDE
--------------AF5D11C573DF7F9D70598EDE--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Hormann <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
In my horizontal stabilizer, I used the jig basically as a work stand.
My tip rib brackets were loose and I didn't use a center support. With
my prepunched kit, the HS, with both skins clecoed on, is dead on
straight according to my plum line. The only thing that I can see that
would make it not be straight would be if you had the two halves of the
spar misalligned when you drilled the spar, and that is best done on a
flat table anyway. IMHO, the jig doesn't do all that much.
Regards,
Doug Hormann
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
>
> I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
> control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
> already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with any
> precision either. How do they help?
>
> And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
> I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
> bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
> punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the jig,
> but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the parts
> together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
>
> Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
> level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
> to move around by the pressure of the skin.
>
> Regargs
>
> Tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Reality Check on RV Costs |
Allow me to respectfully disagree with Mr. Soule, at least with respect to
waiting until retirement to build an RV. My father-in-law loved to fish,
and worked hard and waited until he retired to move to Northern Wisconsin
so he could fish all the time. Of course, he died four months after he
retired. I can't plan that far in the future, so I'm building my RV now,
while I work a more-than-full-time job and try to be a good father to two
small children. Sure, I'm giving up lots of fair-weather flying time and
dollars that could be spent on a Cessna 152, but if all I wanted was a
cheap airplane, I wouldn't be building an RV. I'm also building an RV
because of the challenge (lots of that!), enjoyment, and personal
satisfaction that can only come from completing a project of this scope
(plus the fact that I'll have a heck of flying machine when I'm done). I'm
learning skills I thought I'd never have. All of my friends and family
think I'm crazy for building my own airplane, but they also thought I was
crazy to learn to fly until they saw how much enjoyment I got from that.
Bottom line: I'm enjoying my non-quick build project but I realize that
it's not for everybody. Off my soapbox now and back to work...
Peter Christensen
RV-6A, rudder
Marietta, Georgia
There are other costs, too. I spent the last four years building and have
now almost what the guys who are starting a quick build kit start out with.
Along the way I stopped going to the airport for flying. I'm down to 10-20
hours per year and declining. I learned a lot about how airplanes are
built, but I also taught myself how to not fly when the weather is nice. A
person with more sense that I have would take the $35-70,000 and buy a
plane
with it so he could fly while he can, then build one of these RV's after he
retires and has time on his hands. But what do I know? I like the look of
this aluminum thing in the shop. Maybe someday it will even fly ...
Steve Soule
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | MK-319-BS rivets |
Dear List and Scott if you're listening,
Van's has tradionally supplied MK-319-BS rivets as blind rivets for
situations where you can't get a solid rivet bucked. These are a nuisance
because they need a larger hole (#34 from memory) which you then can't
deburr if the structure is partially assembled. A recent RVator said that
Van's had never found an acceptable (structural) alternative at 3/32 diameter.
I was browsing through the ACS catalogue the other day and noticed that
they list a 3/32 cherry rivet (Monel) as being equivalent to the MK-319-BS.
Does anyone know if this rivet is a structural equivalent of a 3/32 AN rivet?
Cheers,
Leo Davies
(still got the occasional unbuckable rivet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on engine source |
A DUMB question, Gary,,, what about import duty? also was the crate opened for
inspection?....thanks....jolly
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> --------------9536F4912EC018F3F79B4599
>
> Brian Denk wrote:
> 180hp O-360, dynafocal,
> > rebuilt carb and mags, fuel pump, flywheel, with new harness and plugs
> > will cost about $13k delivered. (shipping that thing to New Mexico costs
> > big bucks!)
>
> Shipping of my O-360-A1A from Kamloops, BC to Denver, CO. in a very nice
> wooden crate cost $258.00.
>
> Gary Zilik
> --------------9536F4912EC018F3F79B4599
> name="zilik.vcf"
> filename="zilik.vcf"
>
> begin:vcard
> n:Zilik;Gary
> adr:;;;;;;
> version:2.1
> email;internet:zilik(at)bewellnet.com
> fn:Gary Zilik
> end:vcard
>
> --------------9536F4912EC018F3F79B4599--
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | MK-319-BS rivets |
They may be equivalent but did you look at the price??
Last I looked a Cherry rivet was at least .60C each! Drill the hole
bigger!
Bob
RV8 #423---- bought his share of Cherry and Cherry Max for certified
airplanes.
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Davies [mailto:leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 3:19 AM
Subject: RV-List: MK-319-BS rivets
Dear List and Scott if you're listening,
Van's has tradionally supplied MK-319-BS rivets as blind rivets for
situations where you can't get a solid rivet bucked. These are a nuisance
because they need a larger hole (#34 from memory) which you then can't
deburr if the structure is partially assembled. A recent RVator said that
Van's had never found an acceptable (structural) alternative at 3/32
diameter.
I was browsing through the ACS catalogue the other day and noticed that
they list a 3/32 cherry rivet (Monel) as being equivalent to the MK-319-BS.
Does anyone know if this rivet is a structural equivalent of a 3/32 AN
rivet?
Cheers,
Leo Davies
(still got the occasional unbuckable rivet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Outside Air Respirator |
PLEASE DO
>NOT even try to fool around with a home-made respirator. The fumes we
>are talking about build up in the body over time, and can cause severe
>physical harm if they should reach toxic levels. Air-line respirators
>are so cheap, relative to the cost/consequences of not using them. Why
>take chances with your health like that?
Next thing you know, people will be flying home-made airplanes!
There is an article in one of the current home-built magazines about hooking
a bathroom-type exhaust fan to a modified filter respirator. It would seem
that a 50 or 100 cfm fan pushing air into a face mask would pretty much keep
the fumes from getting in, assuming the source was fresh air. As someone
else said, if you smell fumes, something isn't working.
Also, Aircraft Spruce sells one or two models.
>
>
>VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>>
>> I have decided to paint my RV-8 myself, and am aware of the need to use a
>> fresh air respirator for the new paints with hardeners. Where do I get
>> these respirators? I plan to paint the airplane in pieces and over a
>> period of a week or two, so it would probably not be practical to rent
>> one. Where is the least expensive source for these? It seems like some
>> time ago I saw instructions somewhere for making your own, but I am not
>> sure. Any ideas?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
I am committed to building myself a fresh air respirator system, and
today bought a gas mask that was surplus from Desert Storm($19.00). It
has a sealed, unopened filter cannister that screws on or off. I wonder,
if this filter will screen out nerve gas, won't it screen out the toxic
substances in paints? I am guessing it probably would, but since I can't
be sure, I will go ahead and make a fresh air system using this mask. I
like the idea someone had of using a hair dryer; I have an old one that
has a low cool setting; wouldn't this be about right? Seems to me like
you would want only a slight pressure coming into the mask. The only
thing I am not sure about is what kind of hose to use and what size. Any
ideas here? What size and type hose do they use on the Hobbyair?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sylvain Duford" <sduford(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on engine source |
With NAFTA, there is no duty on most products made in North America.
Sylvain
A DUMB question, Gary,,, what about import duty? also was the crate
opened for
inspection?....thanks....jolly
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> Brian Denk wrote:
> 180hp O-360, dynafocal,
> > rebuilt carb and mags, fuel pump, flywheel, with new harness and
plugs
> > will cost about $13k delivered. (shipping that thing to New Mexico
costs
> > big bucks!)
>
> Shipping of my O-360-A1A from Kamloops, BC to Denver, CO. in a very
nice
> wooden crate cost $258.00.
>
> Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6/6A angled firewall |
Hello everyone,
The plans for the RV-6A show that the two ribs between the firewall and the
sub-panel require the firewall to be bent forward a bit. Many of the photos
I see on the Web, though, show that builders are building a flat firewall.
I am working on this area right now. I am following the plans. Am I going
to get "caught" later with something unforeseen if I continue? Should I go
with a vertical firewall while there is still time?
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
><< I'm getting ready to put the gear leg fairings on my -6A. I have Tracy
> Saylor's fiberglass fairings. I'm wondering whether or not to install the
> wood molding shimmy dampener under Tracy's fairing. What's been
> the experience of other -6 or -6A builders operating from hard
> runways? Is the dampener needed? >>
>
>Tim-
Tim,
I used Tracys fairings and after 40 hrs have the following comments:
1. Tracey told me that no damping wood strips were required so I built
without them. I strongly disagree. Add whatever damping you can get. The
gear is one big spring and is very happy to oscillate. Certainly if I were
to do it again I would use the wood. This is perhaps the area of least
satisfaction for me with the -6 design.
2. My L/H fairing cracked about half way up. Upon examining numerous -6's
with one piece fairings they all had some damage to the L/H fairing about
half way up. Some more than others, and some had signs of repair. Don't
know why only the L/H, but this is an interesting observation.
Dan Morris
RV-6 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
>By the way, I just called Tracy Saylor. He says he's found that the -6
>and -6A don't need the shimmy dampener wood, but the -4 does. His -
>6 has no dampener, and he's not found that he needs it. Something
>about the angles involved in the gear leg layout, he thinks.
>Other experiences?
>Tim Lewis
Tim,
At the Burlington fly-in, I saw a RV6 taxi in with the main gear legs
violently shaking. The wheel fairings were a blur! I talked to the builder
and he had not installed the wood stiffners.
You may get along fine without the installation of the wood strips. Fly
it without and see. I elected to put them on my six before the first flight
because, once flying, I didn't want to take the plane out of commission to
install them.
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: percent power instrument |
o.com>
(Snip)
>Sorry about jumping in here....check www.technologykitchen.com for a percent
>power gauge (of course it also shows RPM and MP, and also OAT, ALT, DA, PA,
>tach time, flight time)...$699.
>Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
I just received their information sheet on this instrument. Looks
interesting.
2" face and has all of the above Rob posted. I E-mailed them Monday and it
was here today. www.technologykitchen.com
The best of Holidays!
Denny, RV-6,
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
In a chemical environment these masks are only good very a limited amount of
time. Best to see if your filter specifies the useful life after exposure or
check with your surplus dealer. One of the reasons for switching from the
older side filter masks to a canister style was to facility a quick change
and minimize the soldiers expose to a chemical environment or being able get
the mask back on should an alarm be sounded while performing maintenance on
your mask.
----- Original Message -----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Gas Mask
Listers;
I am committed to building myself a fresh air respirator system, and
today bought a gas mask that was surplus from Desert Storm($19.00). It
has a sealed, unopened filter cannister that screws on or off. I wonder,
if this filter will screen out nerve gas, won't it screen out the toxic
substances in paints? I am guessing it probably would, but since I can't
be sure, I will go ahead and make a fresh air system using this mask. I
like the idea someone had of using a hair dryer; I have an old one that
has a low cool setting; wouldn't this be about right? Seems to me like
you would want only a slight pressure coming into the mask. The only
thing I am not sure about is what kind of hose to use and what size. Any
ideas here? What size and type hose do they use on the Hobbyair?
Thanks.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
snip
> An old guy here who runs a aircraft shop told me you can give an engine with
> only a small runout crank a whack on the flange with a dead blow hammer and
> knock it back. Great! I wonder how many prop strike engines with no runout
> have seen this treatment? I was also told by a mechanic about a twin that flew
> in to his shop. It had a minor prop strike on one engine that dialed out okay.
> When torn down the crankshaft was found to be cracked half way through.
>
snip
> Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
> halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
and a friend curled the blades of a c/s prop about 6" each while
'taxiing with the tail up', had the crank dialed, put at least 700 more
hours on the engine (~200 by me) before removing the engine for a 'more
power' conversion. I would have bought it for future use had I had the
money.
I guess the moral is: assume nothing; question everything.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update on engine source |
susan dawson wrote:
> A DUMB question, Gary,,, what about import duty?
I paid no import duties. All paperwork and engine logbook state that the engine
is made in the USA, which it was, and overhauled in Canada with USA made parts.
I did pay U$75.00 for import/export paperwork. You can do this yourself, but I
do
not know what it entails.
> also was the crate opened for inspection?....thanks....jolly
It may have been opened, but I doubt that it was.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Exhaust mounting |
Fellow Listers:
Just got a call from one of our local RV-4 pilots who told me he just
discovered 2 cracked pipes in his Vetterman 4-pipe exhaust system (130 hrs
TT). He called Larry Vetterman and he said that this was the first time he
had heard of any of his 4-pipe systems developing any cracks. My friend has
his pipes mounted as Larry recommends with a flexible attachment. He had
the cracks rewelded but before final installation he would like to ask if
anyone has had any experience with a rigid mounting system and has anyone
else reported any cracking problem.
Thanks
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
Listers:
With all the talk about Bart's engines, I have done considerable research on
his shop. Personally I am about 90% certain I will purchase an engine from
him. As a mater of fact, we are planning a trip to Kamloops right after
Christmas to 1) let the kid ski their hearts out and fling themselves off
the local peaks and 2) visit with Bart, tour his shop, and probably give him
a deposit. This could be a very expensive ski trip!
I'll report my findings when I return.
Doug Weiler,
Hudson, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
My 6A Quickbuild had the firewall already installed and it does have a bend -
the top portion bends forward - I think it was 8 degrees just like the panel.
Don't have it here at work but if memory serves, the bend is at the point where
the longerons attach. I am certain that the firewall is not flat.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
> The plans for the RV-6A show that the two ribs between the firewall and the
> sub-panel require the firewall to be bent forward a bit. Many of the photos
> I see on the Web, though, show that builders are building a flat firewall.
> I am working on this area right now. I am following the plans. Am I going
> to get "caught" later with something unforeseen if I continue? Should I go
> with a vertical firewall while there is still time?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
--------------ED3555C6C77B5267555D4F0C
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
> >By the way, I just called Tracy Saylor. He says he's found that the -6
> >and -6A don't need the shimmy dampener wood, but the -4 does. His -
> >6 has no dampener, and he's not found that he needs it. Something
> >about the angles involved in the gear leg layout, he thinks.
> >Other experiences?
> >Tim Lewis
>
> Tim,
> At the Burlington fly-in, I saw a RV6 taxi in with the main gear legs
> violently shaking. The wheel fairings were a blur! I talked to the builder
> and he had not installed the wood stiffners.
> You may get along fine without the installation of the wood strips. Fly
> it without and see. I elected to put them on my six before the first flight
> because, once flying, I didn't want to take the plane out of commission to
> install them.
>
> Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>
> One more two cents worth. I built a 6A and did not put in the stiffeners
> based on the consensus opinion they were not required. I have the stock
> aluminum fairings. I think the reason 6As shimmy less is because the legs
> are shorter.
Bottom line is I wish I had put them in. I do get a little shimmy at about 23
to 30 MPH. This occurs while taxiing fast or when slowing on the landing
roll. Hardly ever happens on take off, probably due to the acceleration. I
used to think this was nose gear shimmy but last month I got a real nose shimmy
and now I know! That nose shimmy was in a 30K crosswind but that's another
story.
Now, my main gear shimmy is much more subdued than I have seen on sixes and
fours, but still a minor annoyance. It is not bad enough for me to take the
plane out of service long enough to retrofit them. I can see where those who
had seen the typical 6 or 4 shimmy would say it is not required on a 6A.
One more one cent comment. Beware of generalizations. The best (or wors?)
shimmy I have seen was on a six with no wood and oversize wheels/tires. So if
you add mass to the end (maybe even change to a heavier tire) it will change
the harmonic dynamic. Older worn tires seem to enhance your chances of
getting it going too.
I wonder why my two cents worth always takes a dollar and a half worth of
space?
D Walsh RV-6A
--------------ED3555C6C77B5267555D4F0C
--------------ED3555C6C77B5267555D4F0C--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
--------------3A0BF1883D3CAE57DEDF6B7C
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> The plans for the RV-6A show that the two ribs between the firewall and the
> sub-panel require the firewall to be bent forward a bit. Many of the photos
> I see on the Web, though, show that builders are building a flat firewall.
> I am working on this area right now. I am following the plans. Am I going
> to get "caught" later with something unforeseen if I continue? Should I go
> with a vertical firewall while there is still time?
Follow the plans. My recollection is that this was changed several years ago
because of better success in fitting and holding the cowling. It started out
as an option and became standard.
DLW
--------------3A0BF1883D3CAE57DEDF6B7C
--------------3A0BF1883D3CAE57DEDF6B7C--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
Steve:
I have a quickbuild and the stainless firewall is bent forward. I haven't
figured out why, but it is definately bent forward. Maybe someone further
into the finish kit can explain it to us all.
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>The plans for the RV-6A show that the two ribs between the firewall and the
>sub-panel require the firewall to be bent forward a bit. Many of the photos
>I see on the Web, though, show that builders are building a flat firewall.
>I am working on this area right now. I am following the plans. Am I going
>to get "caught" later with something unforeseen if I continue? Should I go
>with a vertical firewall while there is still time?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
>
> I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
> control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
> already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with any
> precision either. How do they help?
The V-blocks help in two ways. They are a handy fixture to hold the
structure while working on it and also are plumbed/leveled to take the
twist out of the structure being built. Pre-punched skins alone cannot
create a straight assembly IMHO.
> And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
> I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
> bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
> punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the jig,
> but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the parts
> together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
You may have been able to build it straight without a jig, but a jig
fixture will hold the structure firm in alignment while drilling which
should insure that the structure is straight. With all the taking the
skin off and on, I could not have kept the skeleton straight without a
jig.
> Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
> level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
> to move around by the pressure of the skin.
You will be using a plumb bob to align the chord of the horizontal.
Since the plumb bob hangs straight vertically, the spar should be 90
degrees to the plumb bob, which means the spar should be level. You can
shim the little brackets that attach to the hinges to make the
horizontal level. Be sure to run the sring through the bracket holes to
help get them straight in alignment. As far as the jig being
perfect,....just make as perfect as you want the alignment of your plane
to be!
> Regargs
>
> Tim
>
I used the jigs and I would be fibbing if I said my parts are perfectly
straight. But, they are pretty darn close and I am hoping the payday
will come when she tracts good on the test flights. :
)
Good luck,
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
>
> By the way, I just called Tracy Saylor. He says he's found that the -6
> and -6A don't need the shimmy dampener wood, but the -4 does. His -
> 6 has no dampener, and he's not found that he needs it. Something
> about the angles involved in the gear leg layout, he thinks.
>
> Other experiences?
>
> Tim
I have done it both ways on my -6 and I can tell you from experience
that I would not leave home again without the wood stiffeners. There
is no comparison in the way it handles while taxing and even feels
better landing.
Jerry Springer|RV-6 flying since 1989|Hillsboro,OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
With all the talk about the Aero Sport Engines, I might mention to allow
plenty of time if you plan to place an order with Bart for an engine.
Last I heard, he was 6 months plus out. That was some time ago, it is
probably more now. But like most good things in life, it is worth the
wait. One thing that impressed me with Bart was that when I placed my
order, he said the price would not go up above what he quoted me, even
if it took a year to get an engine. Outstanding company to deal with,
and I might mention that Bart, being the prudent man that he is, is
building an RV-8!
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gar Pessel" <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sewell <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Jigs? Why do I need jigs?
>
One other note on the use of jigs: The aluminum sheet will creep on you as
you dimple and rivet. It deforms a little during each operation.
Particularly true if you are dealing with .016. Having a jig to hold
everything straight while you perform these functions is not an optional
extra IMHO. .001 here and .001 there does not sound like much but it adds
up over a dozen or so holes. The creep phenomenon is also the reason you
should try to keep a cleco ahead of any riveting operation. Guess how I
know. Gar Pessel, Fairbanks, AK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RD-List: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
>The plans for the RV-6A show that the two ribs between the firewall
>and the
>sub-panel require the firewall to be bent forward a bit. Many of the
>photos
>I see on the Web, though, show that builders are building a flat
>firewall.
>I am working on this area right now. I am following the plans. Am I
>going
>to get "caught" later with something unforeseen if I continue? Should
>I go
>with a vertical firewall while there is still time?
>
>Steve Soule
>Huntington, Vermont
>
>
>
Tilting the firewall is necessary or you will have problems with the
hinge along the top of the cowling for reasons that are hard to describe
in words but if you bend the top flange on the firewall to match the
slope of the top skin and cowl, and then try to fit a hinge up to it you
will see the problem first hand.
Most of the pictures you have seen were probably prior to bending it fwd.
This can be easily done when working on this area by clamping a board or
some angle and completing the bend by hand (stainless steel is quite
soft).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Outside Air Respirator |
>PLEASE DO
>>NOT even try to fool around with a home-made respirator. The fumes we
>>are talking about build up in the body over time, and can cause
>severe
>>physical harm if they should reach toxic levels. Air-line respirators
>>are so cheap, relative to the cost/consequences of not using them.
>Why
>>take chances with your health like that?
>
>Next thing you know, people will be flying home-made airplanes!
>
>There is an article in one of the current home-built magazines about
>hooking
>a bathroom-type exhaust fan to a modified filter respirator. It would
>seem
>that a 50 or 100 cfm fan pushing air into a face mask would pretty
>much keep
>the fumes from getting in, assuming the source was fresh air. As
>someone
>else said, if you smell fumes, something isn't working.
>
>
I have seen 2 different ones that were made with a regular respirator by
removing the filter elements and reversing the valves as needed to be
sure the air can only flow through. The masks were connected to small
shop vacs (well cleaned out of course) which move a good amount of air.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
>As I was building my tail I also questioned the need for jigs with the
>pre-punched kits. (although I used them anyway) One conclusion I came
>up with is that they are just a carry-over from the original kits
>(non-pre-punched)
>
Not really.
It is still very possible to build twisted components even when building
with prepunched parts, and using a jig. Some kit builders have proven
this.
Prepunch parts get you close, but it is not exact. This is one reason
that the P.P. holes are slightly undersize. Also the bigger the assembly
you are working on the more possibility for twist or miss alignment if
you were relying on the prepunch holes alone.
A jig is only something to hold something you are working on and keep it
in a specific/known position. A flat table with some wood blocks and C
clamps could be called a jig.
When we build from kit parts in the prototype shop we use jigs (even
though we have done it a few times).
I hope everyone else will also. They are so simple to make, the time
saved is not worth it if you end up with a part that is not built
correctly, and how will you know? Often, the jig is a means to determine
that it is straight as well as hold it there.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
A gas mask will not filter out paint and thinner fumes. They are not made to
filter concentrated fumes for extended periods. The filters wear out very
quickly in a saturated environment, like your paint boot.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
----- Original Message -----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 5:44 PM
Subject: RV-List: Gas Mask
>
>Listers;
>I am committed to building myself a fresh air respirator system, and
>today bought a gas mask that was surplus from Desert Storm($19.00). It
>has a sealed, unopened filter cannister that screws on or off. I wonder,
>if this filter will screen out nerve gas, won't it screen out the toxic
>substances in paints? I am guessing it probably would, but since I can't
>be sure, I will go ahead and make a fresh air system using this mask. I
>like the idea someone had of using a hair dryer; I have an old one that
>has a low cool setting; wouldn't this be about right? Seems to me like
>you would want only a slight pressure coming into the mask. The only
>thing I am not sure about is what kind of hose to use and what size. Any
>ideas here? What size and type hose do they use on the Hobbyair?
>Thanks.
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge |
>Leo Davies wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> >A couple of weeks ago I submitted a post regarding a sticking manifold
>> >pressure gauge.
>> >I flew today and it is working fine. I removed it a couple of weeks ago
>> >and took it home into a warm kitchen. I let it sit for about 12 hours in
>> >the flat position. Inlet hole down on a paper towel. Amazing how much
>> >blue residue (fuel) came on to the towel. I then put it in the oven and
>> >set it for minimum (150 degreesF) turned the oven off when it reached 150
>> >and let it cool and then did it again. I got out about as much again as I
>> >had previously. It appears to be working okay today. I did install a
small
>> >( about the size of a roll of dimes) auto gas filter in the line
between my
>> >#3 cylinder and the gauge. Hope this helps. Some sort of filter to keep
>> >gas dye from getting to the gauge is desirable.
>> >FWIW
>> >
>> >Ken Hoshowski C-FKEH RV6 First flight sept 8/93
>> >Salmon Arm B.C.
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> I think there must be an underlying fault. Manifold pressure should be
>> atmospheric or less so that there shouldn't be any tendency to blow
>> fuel/air mix along the line. The gauge should also be sealed so that
>> nothing should move along the line even if the manifold pressure went
>> transiently positive (Back fire perhaps). Perhaps someone with more
>> experience than mine will recognize the symptom. I'm sure a filter on the
>> manifold pressure line is not a usual requirement.
>>
>> Leo Davies
>>
>
>Yo Leo. I offer this as a plausible non technical explanation which
worked on
>me:
>
>When you shut the engine down, the manifold pressure is very low (high
>vacuum). As the engine quits pumping, you have created a good suck
chamber at
>teh manifold pressure gage. This suction source hurls the contents of the
tube
>(which starts at the low point of your manifold) toward the gage. If your
>gage is lower than the manifold (most RVs), the damp crud from the manifold
>will wind up there, in ever increasing amounts, with each shut down.
>
>If you too buy this story, then a sump, or other collector installed in the
>line at a lower point than the gage, will help prevent the crud from
gettign to
>the gage.
>
>There are other approaches to solving the problem, such as a drain, or a vent
>pin hole in a loop in the line, but in my next airplane, I am going to
install
>the MP gage as high as possible as start.
>
>
>D (non technical) Walsh. with a gas filter in the line.
>
Hmmmm,
I follow the explanation but if it works like this everyone's manifold
gauges should be full of crud. I have a vested interest in this because my
manifold pressure line is connected to my expensive LASAR ignition box. The
installation instructions for that do not require a filter or sump but do
specify that no crud should go in the sensor hole.
I still feel there's a piece of the story missing here..... any input from
an instrument tech on requirements for manifold pressure lines would be
welcome.
Cheers,
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | MK-319-BS rivets |
com>
>
>
> They may be equivalent but did you look at the price??
>
> Last I looked a Cherry rivet was at least .60C each! Drill the hole
>bigger!
>
> Bob
> RV8 #423---- bought his share of Cherry and Cherry Max for certified
>airplanes.
Bob,
No this is not a "Cherry Max" this is a pull up rivet manufactured by
Cherry with a non-retained head. It looks like a MK-319-BS but is 3/32 in
diameter. They run 14c each.
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Outside Air Respirator |
>>
>I have seen 2 different ones that were made with a regular respirator by
>removing the filter elements and reversing the valves as needed to be
>sure the air can only flow through. The masks were connected to small
>shop vacs (well cleaned out of course) which move a good amount of air.
If you go this way, our local Home Depot is selling small (1.5 gallon?)
shop vacs for $29. They come with what looks like a 1 inch hose which
would be easier to adapt than the standard 2 or 3 inch hose. I bet the
price is pretty close to a bathroom fan motor...
.... Gil (I bought a HobbyAir with another builder) Alexander
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge |
>
>I follow the explanation but if it works like this everyone's manifold
>gauges should be full of crud. I have a vested interest in this because my
>manifold pressure line is connected to my expensive LASAR ignition box. The
>installation instructions for that do not require a filter or sump but do
>specify that no crud should go in the sensor hole.
>
>I still feel there's a piece of the story missing here..... any input from
>an instrument tech on requirements for manifold pressure lines would be
>welcome.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Leo
>
I had a MP gauge in the Lawn Dart that always had a puddle of gas in the
bottom of it. I was told the MP tap should protrude slightly into the intake
airstream. The reason was that liquid fuel condenses on the walls of the
intake system and then fuel migrates into the MP line. I never got it fixed
tho, so I dont know.
Most WWII airplanes have MP drains near the gauge which you open momentarily
at idle suck everything out of the lines.
The reason why the dye ends up in the gauge, is because the fuel evaporates
and the dye doesnt.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | The engine hunt saga continues |
Greetings fellow tired Xmas shoppers,
Well, I think I've found my engine source. Guess who? Yup, Bart Lalonde.
I know I know, I shoulda just ordered one from him to start with, but
shopping around still makes dollars and sense. Of course, he immediately
returned my call after returning from lunch, and Sue Gregor was very
courteous on the phone...also knew engines and had informed answers to
my questions.
Since the $15,800 price for his standard, O-360A2A configured engine is
out of reach for me, we discussed installing a used crank (verified to
be of acceptable standards for a certified engine installation) and thus
deducting $2500 from the price. So, I swallowed hard, (OK, sorta
wheezed, whinced and grimaced) then said, "let's do it". Still, being
the up front guy that he is, he said that while he sources a good crank
(he receives ten or so cores per month), if I change my mind, to just
let him know. The rebuilt engine from that fellow in Virginia that I
mentioned previously, at least initially, is less expensive, but then
what price do you pay for a solid reputation and peace of mind? This IN
NO WAY is meant to belittle the other vendor, as he was VERY courteous,
patient and professional. Oh, by the way, I just read that new Lycoming
engine prices are due to increase Jan 1. So, for all you engine fence
sitters...get busy! Hey, doesn't Santa live up there in Kamloops? Would
an O-360 push his sleigh over max gross? Hmm...
So, to all the Bart Lalonde fans out there....you owe me a beer! Or, is
it the other way around? Wait...don't answer that. :)
Brian Denk
the engine saga continues, but the end is near!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mongo7(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV Costs |
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
> Building the sub-panel and wondering how the instrument panel fits in there
> 'cause the manual doesn't say and the plans only show the side view ... and
> how I'm going to figure out whether or not the rudder pedals are too close
> or too far before I get too far with the front fuselage stuff ... and how to
> move all the stuff around in the shop so that I can get the HS on the
> fuselage ..........
>
>
>
Steve,
First off with the way you handled the airplane at Oswego in that 20+
15deg.crosswind I think youll be fine when it comes time to fly yours.
One thing
about building is that you need time. SURE IT'S NICE TO BE RETIRED AND
BUILD AND
I DO, but if I was your age and wanted to build an RV I would do it and
finish
when I could. Of course if I missed flying then I would rent whenever I
needed
the fix.
Regarding you instrument panel. The only thing you need to be concerned
about is cutting the slots in the side enough to get to it to be
perpendicular
and touch the rib ends that go through the sub panel. As for the sub
panel you'll
need to cut openings in it for radios and instruments like a gyro. The
pedals can
be adjusted two ways. One is to drill two holes in the blocks with the
pedals as
far forward as they will go. Then move the blocks one hole aft and drill
a new
hole and repeat that again and voila you have three settings for your
pedals.
The other is to mount your seats get in and set the pedals to where you
feel
comfortable. As for your HS I can't help you with that. Good luck!
Don Champagne
N767DC
Mont Vernon, NH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV Costs |
In a message dated 12/10/98 5:47:11 PM Central Standard Time,
peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com writes:
while I work a more-than-full-time job and try to be a good father to two
small children. >>
Do not under estimate the education that your kids are getting from building
an airplane. When I started building my RV-4 my son Jeffrey was 2 years old,
he is now 8 and I have two more, Brian age 5.5 and Kelsey age 3.5 and we are
almost finished with the plane.
Jeffrey and I built the wings when my wife was pregnant with Brian. Jeffrey,
Brian and I built the fuselage when she was pregnant with Kelsey. All three
have spent countless hours in the shop "Helping me build the airplane" I have
always involved them in what I was doing. When they were small I would put
them in a walker on the shop floor and they would roll around helping for
hours. I found that a 2-3 year old can remove Cleco's as good as anyone and
they also will pick them up off the floor and put them away.
I kept the shop very clean when they were small, used a cordless drill for
noise and forced them inside when I riveted or painted. We have had only a
couple of very minor injuries.
I find that my wife is more than happy to let me work on the plane as long as
I take the kids with me.
When the kids get to be teenagers there interest in Aviation just might keep
them from getting into trouble.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
"Almost Done" Two oldest boys fighting over who will get the first ride.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Barts Engines |
I too am ordering from Bart. The latest quote was 60 - 90 day's. Hope that
is accurate.
----- Original Message -----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 6:31 PM
Subject: RV-List: Barts Engines
With all the talk about the Aero Sport Engines, I might mention to allow
plenty of time if you plan to place an order with Bart for an engine.
Last I heard, he was 6 months plus out. That was some time ago, it is
probably more now. But like most good things in life, it is worth the
wait. One thing that impressed me with Bart was that when I placed my
order, he said the price would not go up above what he quoted me, even
if it took a year to get an engine. Outstanding company to deal with,
and I might mention that Bart, being the prudent man that he is, is
building an RV-8!
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RD-List: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
Thanks Scott,
My fuselage is all riveted up or I would have introduced the bend before
this. It does look easy to bend. I might add it makes the fuselage look a
lot more like an airplane and less like a canoe with the top skins clecoed
on and the front panel(s) in place.
Steve Soule
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance sender isolator material |
Teflon works well (as does tefzel) so long as you aren't planning on orbiting
your plane (Teflon really dislikes a combination of hard vacuum, ozone (or
monatomic oxygen) and high temperatures). Polyethylene or polypropylene
insulation should also work.
Using Teflon insulated wire for your sense electrode will prevent condensation
from taking out your sender, if it is fully sealed at both ends as the sense
electrode doesn't need to directly contact the fuel. For best accuracy a
reference electrode should be run either near the sensor or form a tube
surrounding it (a piece of alloy tube with a number of holes drilled in it
should work well). This prevents a changes in the geometry of the tank (i.e.
flop tubes) from interfering with the reading.
Like any system these are only as accurate as you calibrate them.
(P.S. I do this for a living)
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Capacitance sender isolator material was Re: RV-List: Orderi
Date: 10-12-98 07:51
Listers,
I've been following this thread closely, as I am considering using the
capacitance style senders. My question to the more knowledgeable is:
What are the effects of av and mo gas on the various insulating
materials available? Over time, will the fuel break them down? Make them
brittle? Cause them to warp? Since after the fact replacement would be
difficult, I'd like to chose the best material the first time. Thanks
Charlie Kuss
RV8 wings
Boca Raton, Fl.
> Yes, my probes are isolated from the tank by nylon inserts in each of the
holes in
> the four center ribs, and they are cut off just short of the outboard rib.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Jack Abell
> > Do you have to 'isolate' the probe from the tank? The Skysports
> > system that I had for a while in my RV said, in the instructions, that
> > the probe cound NOT contact the tank anywhere except at the mounting
> > bracket. If I had mounted it as you are doing I would have had to use
> > plastic grommets (or whatever) to isolate the 1/4" diameter probe from
> > the ribs.
> >
> > Is your system like that?
> >
> > John Ammeter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jigs? Why do I need jigs? |
At this point in construction, easiest is to draw centerlines on the
ribs. If you have a protractor level, hold it's base against the
centerlines of each rib and note where the pointer sits. If it is the
same for all the ribs, then your major alignment problems are
non-existant. Alternatively, you can use a plumb line to position one
tip rib vertically, fix the entire assembly in place, then use the plumb
line to check the other ribs. Checking the root ribs with a plumb line
is a pain, as you have to measure outside the ribs with an offset due to
the spars. Also, you should check to be sure that the rear spar is
straight from tip to tip, otherwise your control horns could bind. Side
to side alignment of the ribs is not nearly as important (cosmetic at
the roots at worst and hidden by the fairing; at the tips you will want
to be sure that the elevator counterweights match but some careful skin
trimming here can take care of small problems.). Hope this helps.
PatK - RV-6A
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
>
> Pat,
>
> Thanks for the information. Could you tell me how I could measure
> my stabilizer for straightness?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tim
>
> >From owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Thu Dec 10 05:58:25 1998
> >Received: from [207.171.250.179] by hotmail.com (1.0) with SMTP id
> MHotMail30907510261733506532470348415454728390; Thu Dec 10 05:58:25 1998
> > by matronics.com (8.8.8/Matronics-1.2) id FAA03567
> >Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:48:42 -0600
> >From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net>
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Jigs? Why do I need jigs?
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Message-id: <366FD13A.8C90BD5(at)megsinet.net>
> >References: <19981210085215.2595.qmail(at)hotmail.com>
> >Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >Precedence: bulk
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> >
> >Let the holy wars begin. :)
> >
> >Tim, despite your magical ability to eyeball the alignment of your
> >parts, pre-punching does not gaurantee perfection. Sorry, the sarcasm
> >was not intended to flame you but to impress you with the idea that
> >parts are not self-aligning. I cannot believe that you did not somehow
> >fix your root ribs' alignment relative to each other and the tips
> before
> >skinning - whether you did so on a table or an upright fixture, it
> still
> >constitutes a jig. If you did not, then you need to check those
> >alignments - by measurement, not by eye - and then take any
> >discrepancies to your nearest EAA tech counselor for advice. Chances
> >are that any problems are correctable; your eyeballs are at least that
> >good.:) The jigs we build do not have to be precise or straight as
> long
> >as they hold the parts in alignment. For all the time that we spend
> >aligning our jigs, once construction begins it is more important to
> >check the alignment of parts constantly. It is possible to misalign
> >parts in a perfect jig; conversly, it is possible to have perfect
> >alignment of parts in a crooked jig. Which would YOU prefer?
> >
> >That said, a nice jig does make the process easier. How much you are
> >willing to spend on your ease is up to you.
> >
> >PatK - RV-6A
> >
> >Tim Sewell wrote:
> >>
> >> I understand the purpose of the jigs, but for example with the
> >> control surface V-blocks. The skin is pre-punched and the skin is
> >> already bent. It seems to me the V blocks aren't exactly made with
> any
> >> precision either. How do they help?
> >>
> >> And with the stabilizers, I built my vertical without any jig.
> >> I made the skelaton on a table and then drilled the skin to it. How
> >> bad can this be? It looks straight to me and I figured with the pre
> >> punched stuff, it would line up pretty good. I riveted it on the
> jig,
> >> but there were no centerlines, etc. The skin seemed to pull the
> parts
> >> together, no matter how I tried to twist the skeleton.
> >>
> >> Finally, on my horizontal, does the rear spar have to be perfectly
> >> level? And how perfect does the jig have to be? The parts seem
> >> to move around by the pressure of the skin.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > List Support Contributions:
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
> | \-/ |
>
> ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push tube |
Not on the steel push tube; you are thinking of the larger diameter
aluminum one.
PatK - RV-6A
Dan Wiesel wrote:
>
> If I remember correctly, the plans call for more than 2 rivets, I think its
> either 3 or 4 rivets.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
I went the "bent" firewall route so the cowling would fit better at the
firewall. If you do not bend the firewall foward and if you use hinges
for attaching the cowling to the firewall you will need to notch the
hinges in order to get them to follow what is essentially a compound
curve. If you bend the firewall as the option indicates you avoid
that. Don't forget to add sufficint material to the two ribs between
the foward cockpit bulkhead and firewall to fill the gap created by
bending FW foward.
Ed
RV-6A N494BW
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
Vienna, VA
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> The plans for the RV-6A show that the two ribs between the firewall and the
> sub-panel require the firewall to be bent forward a bit. Many of the photos
> I see on the Web, though, show that builders are building a flat firewall.
> I am working on this area right now. I am following the plans. Am I going
> to get "caught" later with something unforeseen if I continue? Should I go
> with a vertical firewall while there is still time?
>
> Steve Soule
> Huntington, Vermont
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Shimmy dampener on 6A main gear |
Tim,
I initially questioned the need for the gear wood dampeners, but
decided to install them from the beginning (just would hate the downtime
to rotrofit them). FWIW my subjective impression is that the airframe is
much more directionally stable on the ground with the wooden strips (I
did high speed taxi test without the wooden gear dampeners) and I have
encountered no shimmy of any type thus far (10 hours). The skinny little
rods do flex quite a bit and I believe the wood strips help minimize the
excess. I have only operated off hard surface and no grass strips thus
far.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
Vienna, VA
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
>
> >By the way, I just called Tracy Saylor. He says he's found that the -6
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Exhaust mounting |
<< Just got a call from one of our local RV-4 pilots who told me he just
discovered 2 cracked pipes in his Vetterman 4-pipe exhaust system (130 hrs
TT). He called Larry Vetterman and he said that this was the first time he
had heard of any of his 4-pipe systems developing any cracks. My friend has
his pipes mounted as Larry recommends with a flexible attachment. He had
the cracks rewelded but before final installation he would like to ask if
anyone has had any experience with a rigid mounting system and has anyone
else reported any cracking problem.
>>
This is the first I've heard of any Vetterman system cracking. Ever. The -4 I
built has 900 hrs on a STEEL 4 pipe system! Incredible!
I'll suggest that a rigid mounting system won't work- too much vibration. Use
Larry's mounting system- he actually DOES know what he's doing.
The important thing to keep in mind when working with these exhaust systems is
to keep any strain, no matter how small, out of the mounting system. Don't
force those pipes! Mount the pipes sort of like they were rod ends- a little
slop in all directions, no binding. That engine really shakes at startup &
shutdown.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Manifold pressure gauge |
> >When you shut the engine down, the manifold pressure is very low (high
> >vacuum). As the engine quits pumping, you have created a good suck
> chamber at
> >teh manifold pressure gage. This suction source hurls the contents of the
> tube
> >(which starts at the low point of your manifold) toward the gage. If your
> >gage is lower than the manifold (most RVs), the damp crud from the manifold
> >will wind up there, in ever increasing amounts, with each shut down.
> >
> >If you too buy this story, then a sump, or other collector installed in the
> >line at a lower point than the gage, will help prevent the crud from
> gettign to
> >the gage.
Listers,
I had a problem with two UMA manifold gauges leaking oil/gas into the
gauge itself. I called the guy that makes the UMA gauges and he told me that
I had a hole in the diaphragm, PERIOD. There could be no other explanation
for it, so buy another gauge. He told me the 2 1/4 gauge has one diaphragm
and the 3 1/8 gauge has two diaphragms. That's why the 2 1/4 would go bad
before the 3 1/8 gauge.
I asked him if running auto gas could hurt the diaphragm, he said absolutely
not. He told me to buy a new gauge, I asked him how many I had to buy before
I got a good one.
After I bought a new one, I lowered the vacuum line going through the firewall.
This keeps the line from being higher than the gauge when the tail is on the
ground. I haven't had any trouble since ( knock on wood ).
I also noticed that the oil/gas in the bad gauge would be sucked out of the
gauge when the motor was started. Only to return when the engine was shut off.
I had also called Century Instrument to ask for advice, they told me that
they
had heard that one aircraft manufacture ( Bonanza I best recall ) installed a check
valve of sorts to keep the fluid from going into the gauge. I called everyone I
could think of to find this valve and no one seemed to know what I was talking
about.
So my advice is to make sure your vacuum line is lower than your gauge
at ALL times and buy a new gauge. ( because the one you got has a hole in
the diaphragm if you haven't guessed it already ).
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
More than just a slight pressure is needed for a fresh air system. Since
you will be driving the air through a long hose, 25 feet or better, pressure
is need for that. When you get the fresh air to the mask, you still want an
excess of pressure to blow air out of the mask to cover the large
possibility of leaks. This also cools the wearer as masks, even the cheap
ineffective paper masks are hot and sweaty. Rubber masks are even worse. So
you need the excess air for cooling and safety.
I have a friend that places his blower in his air conditioned house and
opens a window in the house for make up air so he doesn't pull any air from
the shop where he is painting.
Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gas Mask
>
>A gas mask will not filter out paint and thinner fumes. They are not made
to
>filter concentrated fumes for extended periods. The filters wear out very
>quickly in a saturated environment, like your paint boot.
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 Page at:
>http://tabshred.com/moe
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
>To:
>Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 5:44 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Gas Mask
>
>
>>
>>Listers;
>>I am committed to building myself a fresh air respirator system, and
>>today bought a gas mask that was surplus from Desert Storm($19.00). It
>>has a sealed, unopened filter cannister that screws on or off. I wonder,
>>if this filter will screen out nerve gas, won't it screen out the toxic
>>substances in paints? I am guessing it probably would, but since I can't
>>be sure, I will go ahead and make a fresh air system using this mask. I
>>like the idea someone had of using a hair dryer; I have an old one that
>>has a low cool setting; wouldn't this be about right? Seems to me like
>>you would want only a slight pressure coming into the mask. The only
>>thing I am not sure about is what kind of hose to use and what size. Any
>>ideas here? What size and type hose do they use on the Hobbyair?
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Von Alexander
>>RV-8 N41VA
>>N41VA(at)juno.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6/6A angled firewall |
Ed, thanks for the "don't forget". I assumed that the ribs between the
firewall and the subpanel were long enough and angled right to put the
subpanel where it was supposed to be. The subpanel right now is 17 inches
from the firewall, but at an angle. Should I add material to the ribs to
made the subpanel perpendicular? I would say that it is at a 8 degree angle
right now and that looks right.
Steve
-----Original Message-----Don't forget to add sufficint
material to the two ribs between
the foward cockpit bulkhead and firewall to fill the gap
created by
bending FW forward.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
Steve,
My kit was one of the older kits before the pre-punched was available.
For that kit you did have to add material to the two ribs to meet the
of the "bent" firewall. Now if the "bent" firewall has become the
"standard" for new kits, then yours may have sufficient material to
reach. The older kits did not and you had to add a trianular extention
to fill the gap. Was not hard, I cut off the firewall flange of the
ribs and added a filler strip extending to the firewall, rivet the
flange back to the .032 and the 0.032 to the rib. However, you don't
need to cut off the flange, you can simply bend up a flang on a picece
of 0.032 and rivet the piece to the rib with the flange paralleling the
slant of the firewall. If you ribs are long enough and the flange
parallels the slant of the foward bent firewall, I would say you are
ready to go. If not its simple to add a piece.
Ed
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> Ed, thanks for the "don't forget". I assumed that the ribs between the
> firewall and the subpanel were long enough and angled right to put the
> subpanel where it was supposed to be.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walsh, John" <jwalsh1(at)unifi.com> |
>
> Listers;
> I am committed to building myself a fresh air respirator system
Von,
Consider an alternative to the mask. Buy a splash shield at the
local hardware store.
These have a band that goes around your head and a big plastic
shield over your face.
Duck tape this into a plastic trash bag to use as a hood. Run the
fresh air hose up your back and over the top of your head (inside the hood
of course) so that it's blowing right on the mask.
This has the advantage of not allowing the paint to be absorbed
throught your skin.
Visibility is excellent and the mask doesn't fog. It only costs
about $2 so when it gets
etched by the paint you just throw it away and make a new one.
Good luck with your paint job.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Barts Engines |
Mine took about two months after I paid for it....it was also an 0-360 with
an overhauled crank. Maybe because he had an overhauled crank coming to
him, and nobody else had an order for one with such a crank. I'm not gonna
question it though!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Walsh, John" <jwalsh1(at)unifi.com> |
| Subject: | Outside Air Respirator |
> The masks were connected to small shop vacs (well cleaned out of course)
> which move a good amount of air.
>
I used the shop vac for air supply. I duck taped over the end of
the hose and then punched holes in the duck tape until I had the amount of
airllow I wanted.
If you just use the shop vac w/out a "throttle", it will blow the
mask off your head.
Also, I bought some corrugated sump pump hose ( 50' ) and the air
rushing
through it howled unbearably. The "throttle" mechanism also cured
this.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Would it be possible to modify my rv8 h.s. to be constant chord?
I see the RV9 does this so I wouldn't think it to be a major
design change. Anyone know what effect doing this could have on
the airframe?
Regards
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | rear seat instrument panel |
I'm thinking ahead here, but wanted to know what others have done
with a rear seat instrument panel. I know it wasn't designed for it,
but I would like to have a simple panel for my passenger, with a
G-meter, altimeter, and compass (maybe vertical card?). Anyone
have something similar? I think for safety reasons it is important
for the passanger to know about the G-meter / altimeter connection.
Regards
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lm4(at)Juno.com (Larry Mac Donald) |
>Listers; I am committed to building myself a fresh air respirator
>system, and today bought a gas mask that was surplus from Desert
>Storm($19.00).
Dear Von,
It would seem that you are comparing nerve gas to isocyanates. I don't
think you can safely do that, unless you are a chemist and can compare
the properties of the components of each chemical.
Granted, the gas mask idea will probably protect your lungs,
but these paints are made , and do contain large amounts of solvents.
Some of these solvents may be skin absorbable. So in painting your bird
you may be protecting your lungs but you may also be poisoning your liver
or, God forbid, other things.
If you will check with the folks at a chemical plant,
professional painting firm or safety equipment store you will find that
this kind of painting is mostly done using a full tyvek suit. On top of
the suit is mounted a full hood. In the hood there is a hose which pumps
air at a rate ( I think ) of about 3 PSI. This amounts to enough fresh
air for you to breath as well as keeping a positive pressure of air
leaving the hood. Thus the fumes won't be entering thru the vent.
I cannot state that I am an authority on this but I "know" that
handling these paint solvents is flirting with death. So, you have to be
the judge and take responsibility here.
For my two cents, I don't think EAA would print an article about
air supply systems unless it were tried and true. HTH
Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | how much cleanup? |
Hi. I hear that if I run my finger along the edge and I don't
get cut, the edge is OK. So there are many places I spend very
little or no time doing cleanup. Is this ok? mostly just a quick
go over with some emery cloth. I want a safe plane, but don't want
to go overboard with this stuff.
Regards
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
Hi. I have decided to prime all my parts, but what I have done is
to prime everything at once, before any drilling or anything.
When I am done drilling and deburring, there are places where
you can see the bare metal. If have just gone ahead and riveted
here. Are these little spots something to worry about? And
what about the rivets themselves? Do I need to dip each one in
primer? I don't want a rivet coming apart during a critical
phase of flight, such as cruise, and all my top fuse skins go
flying into the wild yonder!
Regards
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Knife Edge Flight |
Is a RV-8A with an O360 capable of sustained knife edge flight?
Regards,
Time
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
I really love RVs and glad I decided to build one, I really enjoy the
building. But I have to be honest... the one thing I dislike is the
low Vne speed when considering the cruise speed of the plane.
I know it is our job as pilots to take care of this, but I wish the
Vne was around 260, or 280. That would be much more of a safety
margin.
What is the primary reason deciding Vne? Flutter? Airframe strength?
I assume a mix of both. I know this is a big open ended quiestion,
but how much re-enforcing would an RV need to increase the Vne?
Regards
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
I was curious as to why the control surfaces (at least on the emp)
are of such thinner skins then the stabilizers? I would think even
more force would be applied to them because they deflect.
Thank you and regards,
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | MK-319-BS rivets |
Leo,
I know the ones you are talking about. The thing that you have to consider
is grip length and shear strength for the non structural pop rivets. Grip
length is different for flush head pops vs. universal head.
There was a very good article in Sport aviation a while back on "pop"
rivet. What I learned from the article is a pop is not a pop. Here's an
example:
part no. Desc Shear
Strength(#)
MS20426AD3 3/32 solid rivet 2117-T3 217
AD42AH 1/8 pop 1100Al body Al stem 105
AD42ABS 1/8 pop 5052Al body Al stem 165
AD42BS 1/6 pop 5052Al body Steel stem 210
Before deciding on that Cherry, check out the shear strength and make sure
you know the grip length is OK. You may find that a 3/32 body is not good
enough.
Regards,
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Davies [mailto:leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: MK-319-BS rivets
>
>
> They may be equivalent but did you look at the price??
>
> Last I looked a Cherry rivet was at least .60C each! Drill the hole
>bigger!
>
> Bob
> RV8 #423---- bought his share of Cherry and Cherry Max for certified
>airplanes.
Bob,
No this is not a "Cherry Max" this is a pull up rivet manufactured by
Cherry with a non-retained head. It looks like a MK-319-BS but is 3/32 in
diameter. They run 14c each.
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
Not really.
Remember, they effectively change the camber of the surface they are
controlling and the pressures across the whole surface change. Besides,
lighter makes them easier to move. :
)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sewell [mailto:rvflyer(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 10:38 AM
Subject: RV-List: Control Surface
I was curious as to why the control surfaces (at least on the emp)
are of such thinner skins then the stabilizers? I would think even
more force would be applied to them because they deflect.
Thank you and regards,
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
Tim,
the way you've done it is similar to how rivets are done in the field on
certificated planes.
With all the additional priming and painting you'll do, you won't have to
worry about it.
Personally I don't prime until all the holes are drilled, deburred,
countersunk, what-have-you. I use priming to declare the thing is done and
ready to rivet.
Regards,
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sewell [mailto:rvflyer(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 10:10 AM
Subject: RV-List: Priming
Hi. I have decided to prime all my parts, but what I have done is
to prime everything at once, before any drilling or anything.
When I am done drilling and deburring, there are places where
you can see the bare metal. If have just gone ahead and riveted
here. Are these little spots something to worry about? And
what about the rivets themselves? Do I need to dip each one in
primer? I don't want a rivet coming apart during a critical
phase of flight, such as cruise, and all my top fuse skins go
flying into the wild yonder!
Regards
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | MK-319-BS rivets-correction |
Dear all,
Read the AD42BS as a 1/8, not a 1/6
Sorry about that!
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: DiMeo, Robert [mailto:Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 11:10 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: MK-319-BS rivets
Leo,
I know the ones you are talking about. The thing that you have to consider
is grip length and shear strength for the non structural pop rivets. Grip
length is different for flush head pops vs. universal head.
There was a very good article in Sport aviation a while back on "pop"
rivet. What I learned from the article is a pop is not a pop. Here's an
example:
part no. Desc Shear
Strength(#)
MS20426AD3 3/32 solid rivet 2117-T3 217
AD42AH 1/8 pop 1100Al body Al stem 105
AD42ABS 1/8 pop 5052Al body Al stem 165
AD42BS 1/6 pop 5052Al body Steel stem 210
Before deciding on that Cherry, check out the shear strength and make sure
you know the grip length is OK. You may find that a 3/32 body is not good
enough.
Regards,
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Davies [mailto:leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 9:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: MK-319-BS rivets
>
>
> They may be equivalent but did you look at the price??
>
> Last I looked a Cherry rivet was at least .60C each! Drill the hole
>bigger!
>
> Bob
> RV8 #423---- bought his share of Cherry and Cherry Max for certified
>airplanes.
Bob,
No this is not a "Cherry Max" this is a pull up rivet manufactured by
Cherry with a non-retained head. It looks like a MK-319-BS but is 3/32 in
diameter. They run 14c each.
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Jeez Jim! Why would you want to make such a design change? You might as
well design your own plane as you would be throwing out all but inboard ribs
on the empenage kit.
Regards,
Bob
RV8#423 working on wings.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sewell [mailto:rvflyer(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 10:01 AM
Subject: RV-List: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord
Would it be possible to modify my rv8 h.s. to be constant chord?
I see the RV9 does this so I wouldn't think it to be a major
design change. Anyone know what effect doing this could have on
the airframe?
Regards
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Hartmann <hartmann(at)sound.net> |
| Subject: | Yeller Pages Update |
Listers,
The latest edition of Gary VanRemortel's RV Builder's Yeller Pages is online at
http://www.sound.net/~hartmann/yelrpage.htm
Enjoy, and be sure to tell Gary thanks
- Mike
hartmann(at)sound.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | RV costs and financing |
Fellow Listers:
In line with the recent thread about the cost of an RV, let me add my
thoughts on kit financing. After just about completing my basic RV-4 kit,
I'm now faced with spending the big bucks (engine, prop, etc. etc). My plan
was to finance this remaining expense. One of our local RV-6A builders
works in the aircraft finance department of Green Tree Financial and I
decided to finance with them. They have a special rate for EAA members and
it was very quite simple. Terms were up to 15 years, rate was 9.1% with no
prepayment penalty and just a $200 application fee. Project insurance is
required to protect the investment.
Green Tree seems to be aggressively entering the aircraft financing market
and have developed a relationship with the EAA (I really think they'll
finance anything that flys). So far I am happy with them (BTW, they are a
very large Minnesota finance company with aircraft a very small portion of
their market).
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rv4george(at)aol.com |
Von:
There is a homemade system in the Experimenter Nov 98 page 26-27.
Jim George rv4George(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Costello" <bcostello(at)mbsi.net> |
| Subject: | Australian RV-ers |
Hi Folks,
Sorry to take the bandwidth for this. Looking at taking a vac next yr on Marriott
points to Australia. Have Surfers Paradise, Sydney and Brisbane as choices.
Looking for best place and time and if I can see some Aussie Rvs.
Please email off line. Thanks much.
Bill Costello
bcostello(at)mbsi.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Hormann <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
I wouldn't be too worried. After all the P-51 rudder was fabric
covered. I've been told that this was to help prevent flutter, although
why fabric would do this I don't know, unless it has some inherent
dampening effect.
Doug Hormann
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
>
> I was curious as to why the control surfaces (at least on the emp)
> are of such thinner skins then the stabilizers? I would think even
> more force would be applied to them because they deflect.
>
> Thank you and regards,
>
> Tim
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
> | \-/ |
>
> ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: The engine hunt saga continues |
,
> patient and professional. Oh, by the way, I just read that new Lycoming
> engine prices are due to increase Jan 1. So, for all you engine fence
> sitters...get busy!
Next available from Van's is after Jan 1 so you will get the benefit of the new
prices! Only $20,500.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James K. Hurd" <hurd(at)riolink.com> |
What is web site address for on-line N-number search? HTML's for this
info in Archives were no-go's. Thanks,
Jim New Mexico 6A cowling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | MK-319-BS rivets |
AC Spruce catalog has strength info for pop rivets but what are the values for
regular rivets - esp 3/32 & 1/8 ??
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Electronics International Gauges |
I would like to pass on a word about this company. I ordered the EI fuel
gauge from Van's and two weeks after I got it, my dog got a hold of it, and
chewed up the wiring harness. I called EI to ask them how much it would
cost me to have a new harness soldered in and have the unit calibrated and
tested.
I sent it back to them, and it came back to me a week later, postage paid,
and an invoice with $0.00 charges on it. This included the harness on the
unit, and the other harness that plugs into the instrument harness. It was
also fully tested and re-calibrated. Along with a funny note typed into the
invoice, they included two dog biscuits for my dogs!
Great customer service..I would recommend them to anyone!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
>
>I wouldn't be too worried. After all the P-51 rudder was fabric
>covered. I've been told that this was to help prevent flutter, although
>why fabric would do this I don't know, unless it has some inherent
>dampening effect.
snip
>>
>> I was curious as to why the control surfaces (at least on the emp)
>> are of such thinner skins then the stabilizers? I would think even
>> more force would be applied to them because they deflect.
>>
>> Thank you and regards,
>>
>> Tim
snip
AFAIK, although I'm NOT an aerodynamicist, the lighter a control surface,
the better. If you add weight behind the hinge line, you have to add even
more in front of the hinge to maintain balance. Design constraints usually
mean the available lever for the counterweight is much shorter, so a modest
increase in the weight of a surface (e.g. thicker skins) might actually
result in a huge increase in the overall weight
James
RV-8 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Search |
go to landings.com and scroll down to get into their data base area, real
>
>What is web site address for on-line N-number search? HTML's for this
>info in Archives were no-go's. Thanks,
>
>Jim New Mexico 6A cowling
>
>
>
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
>
>
>Hi. I have decided to prime all my parts, but what I have done is
>to prime everything at once, before any drilling or anything.
>When I am done drilling and deburring, there are places where
>you can see the bare metal.
I've got some "spray bombs" of Sherwin-Williams 988 wash primer that I use
to touch up the "wear and tear" marks. I think it's probably unnecessary,
but it looks cool....
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Capacitive fuel sensors |
Thanks Scott. Just a little too late, because last week I order the S/W
senders and I received them yesterday. Oh, well, I guess many others have
the float set up which works reasonably well with a watch and clip board to
record last time you changed tanks. I plan on installing some kind of fuel
flow totalizer (Matt you hang in there) and go with that.
-----Original Message-----
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com <smcdaniels(at)Juno.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ordering wings
>
>
>>
>>RE: Wings and Fuel tank senders.
>> Capacitance type senders (as an option) was mentioned for the fuel
>>tank
>>quantity indicators. Anybody have brand recommendations, ones to
>>avoid,
>>lessons learned, etc. on this subject???
>> BTW, other wing options you might want to consider are pitot heat,
>>underwing NACA duct for cabin ventilation, wing tip locker/storage
>>compartment.
>>
>>Doug Seward
>>-4, Seattle, wings
>>
>>
>>
>I will deny having told anyone about this so please don't swamp the
>office at Van's with calls about it until you see it announced in the
>RVator (next issue I believe).
>Ken K, one of the engineers at Van's has been working with the people at
>Electronics International to develop a capacitive system for the E.I.
>digital fuel level instrument.
>The system is very simple (an alum. plate slightly smaller than the tank
>rib installed in each end of the tank), should be less expensive than
>using the long capacitive probes, and should give accurate fuel
>indications at any pitch attitude in the normal climb/decent range.
>
>Other than what I have written above there is not much else to tell.
>
>Don't know when available or how much it will cost.
>Wait by your mail box for the next RVator coming soon.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rscott(at)wnstar.com (Richard Scott) |
Those masks are a bummer to wear for very long. The regular respirator
masks are more comfortable, and I would recommend them for a place to
start--or whatever they recommended in that Experimentor article.
RS
No RV, but thinkin about it.
>
>Listers;
>I am committed to building myself a fresh air respirator system, and
>today bought a gas mask that was surplus from Desert Storm($19.00). It
>has a sealed, unopened filter cannister that screws on or off. I wonder,
>if this filter will screen out nerve gas, won't it screen out the toxic
>substances in paints? I am guessing it probably would, but since I can't
>be sure, I will go ahead and make a fresh air system using this mask. I
>like the idea someone had of using a hair dryer; I have an old one that
>has a low cool setting; wouldn't this be about right? Seems to me like
>you would want only a slight pressure coming into the mask. The only
>thing I am not sure about is what kind of hose to use and what size. Any
>ideas here? What size and type hose do they use on the Hobbyair?
>Thanks.
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Knife Edge Flight |
I got a ride in a RV-4 with an O-320 that was capable of knife-edge flight.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
Is a RV-8A with an O360 capable of sustained knife edge
flight?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Search |
The best place to go for this search is the "Landings" web site, which has
links to a number of search engines (e.g., registered numbers, reserved
numbers, etc.). Once you go to www.landings.com, you will see "N-Number
search" as one of the many options. One word of cuation: If you've never
been there before, plan to spend the afternoon, cuz there's lots of cool
stuff there. You might also check the RV-List archives on N-number
registration. I did this just a bit back and found a form letter to send
to the FAA for reserving your special N-Number.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronics International Gauges |
I would add that the EI fuel gauge used with the SW senders is "dead
accurate."
I use a calibrated dip stick to verify fuel on board before flight, and the
EI fuel gauge always reads the same. The gauge is expensive, but I feel
it's worth it.
RV-6A flying
Salida, CO
December 04, 1998 - December 11, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-fz