RV-Archive.digest.vol-ga
December 11, 1998 - December 19, 1998
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Fuse Throttle & rear rudder pedals Q's |
Several questions for RV-4 types.
For rear seat Throttle Quadrant - Where and how was it placed? Does it
interfere with the passenger left leg? Was an aluminum tube or flex
cable used to connect front to back?
I've done the Recessed Foot Wells for the rear seat per the RVator
article. Has anyone done rear seat rudder pedals along with the recessed
wells? If so, how did you do it, and how does it work?
Thanks in advance.
Boris Robinson
RV-4 Finishing Fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-Number Search |
James K. Hurd wrote:
>
>
> What is web site address for on-line N-number search? HTML's for this
> info in Archives were no-go's. Thanks,
>
> Jim New Mexico 6A cowling
>
Try this
http://www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search_nnr.html
Jerry Springer | RV-6 Flying since 1989 | Hillsboro, Or
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
Hi all,
After all my bleating about the virtues of auto engines in aircraft, I
sent Van's a big wad of money for a new Lycoming O360. Let me explain why.
Nearly all auto engine installations are really adaptations. Most need
a propellor speed reduction unit (PSRU) since the modern auto engine operates at
a speed that is too great for a propellor. In fact, it is too great for an auto
too and is usually reduced, even for the highest speeds, by a gear reduction in
the form of the differential. Usually, this reduction is greater than for the
propellor. The formula for horsepower is PLANK where P is pressure, L is length
of stroke, A is area of the top of all pistons and N is the RPM. So, double the
RPM and you double the power! (K is just a constant). Since L and S combine to
give displacement which is hard to alter, the saying is "The only substitute for
cubic inches is rectangular dollars". The dollars buy higher pressure and RPM.
I put a mighty amount of time into research on the possibility of using
the '87 or later Chevy 4.3 litre (262 cu in) V6 in my RV6A. This is what Belted
Air Power has and which several RV6A's are running. This engine can be
purchased new from a Chevy dealer for about $1800. Since it is just a 3/4 V8,
every town in America has a mechanic familiar with it and the larger ones have
a
speed shop ready to do whatever you need to make it different. It produces
190hp at 4400 rpm in the Chevy pickups and probably 10% more with smog stuff
removed for use in the airplane so it can probably put out 180hp at 4000 rpm.
About 5% of that is lost in the redrive.
At first, I was concerned with durability and reliability. After some
study I decided that reliability is really very high. By reliability I mean the
expectation that a properly running engine will run properly for the flight. By
durability I mean the expectation that the engine will run for a long duration.
My SWAG is that these engines in stock or near stock form can go at least 500
hours in an airplane and probably over 1000 hours. The first signs of wearing
out will be either declining oil pressure or increasing oil consumption. An
overhaul to new limits would cost under $1000.
The heads and blocks in these engines are cast iron - heavy. BAP claims
1156 pounds for theirs but I wanted my airplane to be fully IFR capable and to
be capable of aerobatics with at least me on board. I first tried to reduce
weight by using Brodix aluminum heads and as many aluminum accessories as
possible. It would be a close call with me at 175 lbs dressed and with 15 lbs
of parachute and adequate fuel. An aluminum block would give a big reduction
but they go for $4000 and probably reduce durability. By this time I had
designed a $13000 engine!
If I wasn't interested in aerobatics and IFR, I would have gone for the
Chevy. The latest Corvettes have an all aluminum V8 which produces 350 hp out
of 350 cu in. and sell for about $6500. I expect a similar V6 soon. Until
then, Lycoming wins for my requirements. I think the auto engine alternatives
are looking better all the time and for non aerobatic airplanes they fit now,
especially so if VFR. And really especially so if you are into experimenting
with engines as well as airframes as this V6 has produced as much as 500 hp!!
You can go a long way toward that with local speed shop parts.
The auto engine preparation and installation is also a big project and
I
am anxious to get mine airplane completed so I can enjoy it but also so I can
sell the Debonair in the spring and save more expensive annual restorations.
In short, Lycoming wins on weight, project completion time and
economics. This engine better be a good one or Lycoming is sure to get a lot of
flack and bad press!
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- O360 on order... Hangar H-4 @ SCK
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Which constant speed props fit O360?? |
Hi all,
Maybe I can save a few buck here with a overhauled CS prop. Some shops take two
blade CS props off Bonanzas and put on three blade props. These are McCauleys
usually but there are some Hartzells too.
Any idea how to tell what might fit?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
The completely redesigned engine is not for everyone, but if you wish to save
$10,000 for openers over the Lycoming with just as much power we suggest
looking to the 4.3L V-6.
We still make the offer come to Vegas and fly it for your self or bring your
RV and fly against it.
Jess
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
----------
>
>
> Would it be possible to modify my rv8 h.s. to be constant chord?
> I see the RV9 does this so I wouldn't think it to be a major
> design change. Anyone know what effect doing this could have on
> the airframe?
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
> | \-/ |
>
> ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
Good write-up and very large of you to do so.
Hats off to ya.
James
RV6AQB .... finishing controls ... never had the guts to consider auto
conversion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kempthorne <halk(at)sybase.com>
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 3:36 PM
Subject: RV-List: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming
>
>Hi all,
>
> After all my bleating about the virtues of auto engines in aircraft, I
>sent Van's a big wad of money for a new Lycoming O360. Let me explain why.
>
> Nearly all auto engine installations are really adaptations. Most need
>a propellor speed reduction unit (PSRU) since the modern auto engine
operates at
>a speed that is too great for a propellor. In fact, it is too great for an
auto
>too and is usually reduced, even for the highest speeds, by a gear
reduction in
>the form of the differential. Usually, this reduction is greater than for
the
>propellor. The formula for horsepower is PLANK where P is pressure, L is
length
>of stroke, A is area of the top of all pistons and N is the RPM. So,
double the
>RPM and you double the power! (K is just a constant). Since L and S
combine to
>give displacement which is hard to alter, the saying is "The only
substitute for
>cubic inches is rectangular dollars". The dollars buy higher pressure and
RPM.
>
> I put a mighty amount of time into research on the possibility of using
>the '87 or later Chevy 4.3 litre (262 cu in) V6 in my RV6A. This is what
Belted
>Air Power has and which several RV6A's are running. This engine can be
>purchased new from a Chevy dealer for about $1800. Since it is just a 3/4
V8,
>every town in America has a mechanic familiar with it and the larger ones
have a
>speed shop ready to do whatever you need to make it different. It produces
>190hp at 4400 rpm in the Chevy pickups and probably 10% more with smog
stuff
>removed for use in the airplane so it can probably put out 180hp at 4000
rpm.
>About 5% of that is lost in the redrive.
>
> At first, I was concerned with durability and reliability. After some
>study I decided that reliability is really very high. By reliability I
mean the
>expectation that a properly running engine will run properly for the
flight. By
>durability I mean the expectation that the engine will run for a long
duration.
>My SWAG is that these engines in stock or near stock form can go at least
500
>hours in an airplane and probably over 1000 hours. The first signs of
wearing
>out will be either declining oil pressure or increasing oil consumption.
An
>overhaul to new limits would cost under $1000.
>
> The heads and blocks in these engines are cast iron - heavy. BAP claims
>1156 pounds for theirs but I wanted my airplane to be fully IFR capable and
to
>be capable of aerobatics with at least me on board. I first tried to
reduce
>weight by using Brodix aluminum heads and as many aluminum accessories as
>possible. It would be a close call with me at 175 lbs dressed and with 15
lbs
>of parachute and adequate fuel. An aluminum block would give a big
reduction
>but they go for $4000 and probably reduce durability. By this time I had
>designed a $13000 engine!
>
> If I wasn't interested in aerobatics and IFR, I would have gone for the
>Chevy. The latest Corvettes have an all aluminum V8 which produces 350 hp
out
>of 350 cu in. and sell for about $6500. I expect a similar V6 soon.
Until
>then, Lycoming wins for my requirements. I think the auto engine
alternatives
>are looking better all the time and for non aerobatic airplanes they fit
now,
>especially so if VFR. And really especially so if you are into
experimenting
>with engines as well as airframes as this V6 has produced as much as 500
hp!!
>You can go a long way toward that with local speed shop parts.
>
> The auto engine preparation and installation is also a big project and I
>am anxious to get mine airplane completed so I can enjoy it but also so I
can
>sell the Debonair in the spring and save more expensive annual
restorations.
>
> In short, Lycoming wins on weight, project completion time and
>economics. This engine better be a good one or Lycoming is sure to get a
lot of
>flack and bad press!
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- O360 on order... Hangar H-4 @ SCK
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <robert.acker(at)ingrammicro.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
>The completely redesigned engine is not for everyone, but if you wish to
save
>$10,000 for openers over the Lycoming with just as much power we suggest
>looking to the 4.3L V-6.
>We still make the offer come to Vegas and fly it for your self or bring
your
>RV and fly against it.
Currently, a fresh overhaul O-320 goes for $12K. That makes the price
difference negligible.
My personal experience: I've flown the BAP plane, and I've flown 160hp
O-320 powered RV-6's. The Lycoming versions weigh about 150 lbs less, and
perform better.
Just my $0.02 worth,
Rob Acker (RV-6Q with fresh overhaul $12K Lycosaur).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Knife Edge Flight |
When performing (or attempting to) knife edge flight, do you have
to be concerned about fuel and oil starvation, since this would
be "crooked" g force?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Polished spinner |
Fellow Listers:
I have noticed several RV-6s and also once 160 ho RV-4 (CS) with polished
metal spinners. I am planning an 0-360 with a C/S prop. Where do you
obtain a metal spinner for such a combination?
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
I am in the planning stages of my heating/ventilation system. Looking
through the Van's catalog I see the SV system. It depicts an inlet-scat
tube-ventilator.
My question is, can the cabin heat muff air be ducted to a selector box
and then to the ventilators. This would allow the ventilators to
provide either warm air or fresh air.
Is there enough air pressure in the heat duct for this setup to work?
For this to work it would seem that the warm air pipe would have to be
split and then sent to a selector box for each vent.
How is this typically done?
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> Maybe I can save a few buck here with a overhauled CS prop. Some shops
> take two blade CS props off Bonanzas and put on three blade props.
> These are McCauleys usually but there are some Hartzells too.
>
> Any idea how to tell what might fit?
Go to http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/tcds/tc, the FAA Type Certificate Data
Sheet Database. It has approved engine/prop combinations for McCauley,
Hartzell, etc. props.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
o.com>
>
>Currently, a fresh overhaul O-320 goes for $12K. That makes the price
>difference negligible.
>
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6Q with fresh overhaul $12K Lycosaur).
Rob,
Agree 100%. For most folks an alternative engine, to be a "viable
alternative", has got to cost considerably less than the Lyc it replaces.
Otherwise, why risk the unknown?
OTH a do it yourself approach (ala Tracy Crook) at a cost of half what you
paid for your Lyc is a "viable alternative". It may look crude, but its
working!
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
the surface was fabric, because bullet holes would not tear up the surface as it
would in metal....jolly
Doug Hormann wrote:
>
> I wouldn't be too worried. After all the P-51 rudder was fabric
> covered. I've been told that this was to help prevent flutter, although
> why fabric would do this I don't know, unless it has some inherent
> dampening effect.
>
> Doug Hormann
>
> Tim Sewell wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was curious as to why the control surfaces (at least on the emp)
> > are of such thinner skins then the stabilizers? I would think even
> > more force would be applied to them because they deflect.
> >
> > Thank you and regards,
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
> > | \-/ |
> >
> > ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alternater Conversion |
I took my internal regulator Denso alternator (Came with my Aero Sport engine)
to several auto electric/alternater-starter shops today to bypass the
regulator. Cheapest quote I got was $125!!! Does anyone know someplace I can
send it to get this done for a reasonable price. My ultimate goal is
overvoltage protection which from the archives is not possible with internal
regulator. Thanks
Dave Beizer
Moreno Valley RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cn755(at)freenet.carleton.ca (Cathy Lamport) |
| Subject: | Re: Polished spinner |
In the past, my husband has bought spinners from Spruce. Check the
catalogues. You could also buy a used one if you can get the right size.
>
>
>Fellow Listers:
>
>I have noticed several RV-6s and also once 160 ho RV-4 (CS) with polished
>metal spinners. I am planning an 0-360 with a C/S prop. Where do you
>obtain a metal spinner for such a combination?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Which constant speed props fit O360?? |
> Maybe I can save a few buck here with a overhauled CS prop. Some
> shops take two
> blade CS props off Bonanzas and put on three blade props. These
> are McCauleys
> usually but there are some Hartzells too.
>
> Any idea how to tell what might fit?
> hal
Hal,
If you can get a prop model (hub and blade model numbers), you can
check the prop Type Certificate Data Sheets (TCDS) at
http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/tcds/tc/tcd5prop.htm
Each TCDS will list the engine models that the prop is eligible for
installation on, along with blade diameter limits and rpm limits.
These are the engine/prop combinations that have been tested for
compatibility from a vibration point of view. I guess there is
nothing from a regulatory point of view that prevents you from going
with an engine/prop combination that is not approved, or ignoring the
blade diameter or rpm limits, but you would be risking loosing a prop
blade or breaking a crankshaft.
If you only have a Bonanza model (and you knew that it still had the
original prop), you might be able to go to the two TCDS that cover
the various models at
http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/tcds/tc/tcdsvol1/a-777.pdf and
http://www.faa.gov/avr/air/tcds/tc/tcdsvol1/3a15.pdf
Each aircraft model has its own section at the front of the TCDS. At
the end of each aircraft model, there is a long list of equipment, by
number. The list of equipment numbers (including prop models) is at
the end of the TCDS.
If you need help deciphering this stuff contact me directly.
Good luck,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Setrab Oil Cooler Sizing. |
Hi Everyone.
Last weekend while looking over a local builders Rocket, and
scrounging parts, I picked up a new Setrab 19 row oil cooler for dirt
cheap. In searching through the archives I get the feeling the 19 row
is to big for my O-360-A1A and that a 13 row would be better suited
for my application. Mr. Check Six, what do you think?
Gary Zilik
Pine Junction, Colorado
6A s/n 22993 - cowling/baffling.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
In message <004201be23ac$a2cf6340$15e110ac@rob-s-
station.us.ingrammicro.com>, Robert Acker
writes
>>~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
>
My wife reads the list so can we please kill this thread.
RV8 80276
--
Rob Hatwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Painting Wheels? |
Hi All,
I was thinking about putting my wheels and tires together and was
wondering if I should paint the wheels (rims) before I put the tube
and tires on.
Gary Zilik
Pine Junction, Colorado
6A s/n 22993 cowling/baffling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: rear seat instrument panel |
Tim,
I'd be real interested in what you have in mind to mount an altimeter etc.
I am just installing the seats and I don't see where there is room. I am
planning on a small clock(battery operated) and handheld GPS on a mount
coming off the weldment attachment plate but don't really see any room for
"real" instruments. Any other builders have any ideas???
Bill Pagan
-8A struggling with the rear seat for some reason
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
>I'm thinking ahead here, but wanted to know what others have done
>with a rear seat instrument panel. I know it wasn't designed for it,
>but I would like to have a simple panel for my passenger, with a
>G-meter, altimeter, and compass (maybe vertical card?). Anyone
>have something similar? I think for safety reasons it is important
>for the passanger to know about the G-meter / altimeter connection.
>
>Regards
>
>Tim
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
> | \-/ |
>
> ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
In THAT case all home builts cost less than $10,000!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Hatwell <RV8OR(at)overvne.demon.co.uk>
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs
>
>In message <004201be23ac$a2cf6340$15e110ac@rob-s-
>station.us.ingrammicro.com>, Robert Acker
>writes
>>>~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
>>
>My wife reads the list so can we please kill this thread.
>
>RV8 80276
>--
>Rob Hatwell
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike1769(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternater Conversion |
See Contact! (magazine) issue 46.
you can contact Mick at www.nonprofitnet.com/contact/
hope this helps
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Santschi" <rv8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
Received my 8 empannage last week, building jig this week. I would
like to know if leaving or removing the plastic coating has any effect
on the quality of the dimple. I've been to the archive and there is
very few posting's on this. I will be using Cleveland Aircrafts C-frame
with their dimple dies, also any thoughts on Ball-Pien,Dead Blow, or
wood hammers.
Chris S.
RV-8
Festus,MO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting Wheels? |
I like a light coat of dull aluminum to prevent corrosion.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 9:08 PM
Subject: RV-List: Painting Wheels?
>
>Hi All,
>
>I was thinking about putting my wheels and tires together and was
>wondering if I should paint the wheels (rims) before I put the tube
>and tires on.
>
>Gary Zilik
>Pine Junction, Colorado
>6A s/n 22993 cowling/baffling
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Setrab Oil Cooler Sizing. |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Gary;
My extensive research showed the 13 row to be about right, and that is
what I purchased for my 0-360-A1A, RV-8.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>Hi Everyone.
>
>Last weekend while looking over a local builders Rocket, and
>scrounging parts, I picked up a new Setrab 19 row oil cooler for dirt
>cheap. In searching through the archives I get the feeling the 19 row
>is to big for my O-360-A1A and that a 13 row would be better suited
>for my application. Mr. Check Six, what do you think?
>
>Gary Zilik
>Pine Junction, Colorado
>6A s/n 22993 - cowling/baffling.
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: how much cleanup? |
>
>Hi. I hear that if I run my finger along the edge and I don't
>get cut, the edge is OK. So there are many places I spend very
>little or no time doing cleanup. Is this ok? mostly just a quick
>go over with some emery cloth. I want a safe plane, but don't want
>to go overboard with this stuff.
>
>Regards
>
>Tim
>
>
A very good guide for this is in the intro chapters of the construction
manual where it describes exceptable workmanship levels for parts
preparation. I think it is in chapter 5.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
>
>Would it be possible to modify my rv8 h.s. to be constant chord?
>I see the RV9 does this so I wouldn't think it to be a major
>design change. Anyone know what effect doing this could have on
>the airframe?
>
>Regards
>
>Tim
>
>
It will cause you to take a lot longer building the airplane (kind of
like scratch building except to a smaller degree).
It will cause you much aggravation (you have obviously not yet learned
rule # 1 of home built airplanes) "Change 1 thing, change 10 more things
because of it".
It would most likely do absolutely nothing to improve the flight
qualities of the airplane.
Having said the above I guess I also would be inclined to ask "why would
you want to?"
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/6A angled firewall |
>
>Ed, thanks for the "don't forget". I assumed that the ribs between
>the
>firewall and the subpanel were long enough and angled right to put the
>subpanel where it was supposed to be. The subpanel right now is 17
>inches
>from the firewall, but at an angle. Should I add material to the ribs
>to
>made the subpanel perpendicular? I would say that it is at a 8 degree
>angle
>right now and that looks right.
>
>Steve
>
>
I think if you look in the plans you will see that the firewall top, the
sub panel bulkhead, and the instrument panel are all tilted fwd the same
amount and are parallel to each other.
Any builder using a kit shipped from Van's in the last 5 years or so
(probably even longer) has parts that set the firewall, sub panel, and
the instrument panel at the correct possition.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Exhaust mounting |
><< Just got a call from one of our local RV-4 pilots who told me he
>just
> discovered 2 cracked pipes in his Vetterman 4-pipe exhaust system
>(130 hrs
> TT). He called Larry Vetterman and he said that this was the first
>time he
> had heard of any of his 4-pipe systems developing any cracks.
> >>
>This is the first I've heard of any Vetterman system cracking. Ever.
-
It is the first time I have ever heard of it also.
-
>The -4 I
>built has 900 hrs on a STEEL 4 pipe system! Incredible!
>
>I'll suggest that a rigid mounting system won't work- too much
>vibration. Use
>Larry's mounting system- he actually DOES know what he's doing.
>
>The important thing to keep in mind when working with these exhaust
>systems is
>to keep any strain, no matter how small, out of the mounting system.
-
This is exactly right. Any tension or preload will eventually cause a
crack . If you are installing a system on an RV and you have to force
any position, even ever so slightly you must adjust it to correct the
tension/preload.
To adjust simply get out your exhaust system adjusting tool (rubber
mallet) and give some light taps in the needed place(s) to very slightly
bend the pipe so that their is no tension or preload on it.
BTW this is the Larry Vetterman / High Country Exhaust fully endorsed
adjustment procedure.
When something as long and curvy as an exhaust system is welded in the
jig, let cool, then removed, it can change shape very slightly. You
builders must just be sure that you are not forcing it back to its
original shape (or one that you want it to be in).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electronics International Gauges |
>
>I would like to pass on a word about this company. I ordered the EI
>fuel
>gauge from Van's and two weeks after I got it, my dog got a hold of
>it, and
>chewed up the wiring harness. I called EI to ask them how much it
>would
>cost me to have a new harness soldered in and have the unit calibrated
>and
>tested.
>
>I sent it back to them, and it came back to me a week later, postage
>paid,
>and an invoice with $0.00 charges on it. This included the harness on
>the
>unit, and the other harness that plugs into the instrument harness.
>It was
>also fully tested and re-calibrated. Along with a funny note typed
>into the
>invoice, they included two dog biscuits for my dogs!
>
>Great customer service..I would recommend them to anyone!
>
I will add my own story. I friend who is now deceased because of an
airplane crash (pilot foolishness, another friends not his) was building
a new instrument panel for his Glasair that he had just bought.
He was loading it with goodies and was so tight for space that he packed
the instruments a little too close to each other. Not wanting to redo
has CNC panel for the third time, he instead decided that the aluminum
cases on his nice new Electronics International gages which he had just
purchased from me (I was a dealer at the time) were thick enough to mill
about .010" off of each side. This would be enough to make them fit.
While doing the last side of the last instrument (# 6 of the set) the
instrument got loose and was flung acrossed the room against the wall.
Needless to say it was pretty messed up. I called up the people at E.I
and told them what happened. They said send it in.
About 5 days later we received it back, all repaired (in the same case
that was milled down so that it would fit in the panel).
The invoice said no charge. An additional note was enclosed which
read...
"Please ask your customer to refrain from flying his instruments without
his airplane".
"VERY" Good people to do business with.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
>
>I am in the planning stages of my heating/ventilation system. Looking
>through the Van's catalog I see the SV system. It depicts an
>inlet-scat
>tube-ventilator.
>
>My question is, can the cabin heat muff air be ducted to a selector
>box
>and then to the ventilators. This would allow the ventilators to
>provide either warm air or fresh air.
>Is there enough air pressure in the heat duct for this setup to work?
>
>For this to work it would seem that the warm air pipe would have to be
>split and then sent to a selector box for each vent.
>
>How is this typically done?
>
>-Glenn Gordon
>
>
Glen, this could be done but I don't think you would want to.
Most auto heating systems primarily put the heat down near the floor by
your feet. I think you would find that in the RV you would want the
same.
Hot air rises, and will warm the upper area of the cockpit if below. At
high altitude in the summer if the sun is shining on you through the
canopy it can be 70 deg in the upper cockpit with the OAT showing 30 F.
In this situation I often only have on a short sleaved shirt and I am
very comfortable but my feet get cold.
Solar heating is quite efficient but it doesn't do anything for your feet
down below.
On days that the sun isn't shining, I think you would find that you need
the heat at your feet first.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
>
> Received my 8 empannage last week, building jig this week. I would
>
>like to know if leaving or removing the plastic coating has any effect
>
>on the quality of the dimple. I've been to the archive and there is
>very few posting's on this. I will be using Cleveland Aircrafts
>C-frame
>with their dimple dies, also any thoughts on Ball-Pien,Dead Blow, or
>wood hammers.
>
>Chris S.
>RV-8
>Festus,MO.
>
>
I leave on the plastic for dimpling, but only on prepunched skins.
The P.P. hole is very close to final size as punched so you are removing
a very small amount of material when you drill through the hole.
When drilling through a plain skin (without P.P. holes) you are removing
a lot of material (comparatively) and usually it leaves a lot of metal
shavings/chips caught under the plastic.
You don't want to mash these into the skin when you smash it between the
dimple dies.
I prefer a dead blow hammer. There is recent info about this in the
archives.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
> Received my 8 empannage last week, building jig this week. I would
>like to know if leaving or removing the plastic coating has any effect
>on the quality of the dimple. I've been to the archive and there is
I've never noticed any difference in the dimple quality. I like to leave the
plastic on until I'm ready to spray the primer. This cuts way down on the
possibility of scratches, and if you're careful, you can peel off the plastic
without leaving a single fingerprint, then shoot the primer without having to
clean the metal. The only problem with leaving the plastic on for dimpling, is
that the die tends to cut a circle of plastic around the hole. When you peel
off the plastic, many of these little plastic doughnuts don't come off with the
sheet. I use a stiff bristle brush to get them off before priming. If you miss
a few, the primer will make them curl up, and you'll have to pick them out of
the wet primer. No harm really, just a mess.
>very few posting's on this. I will be using Cleveland Aircrafts C-frame
>with their dimple dies, also any thoughts on Ball-Pien,Dead Blow, or
>wood hammers.
Hammer type doesn't matter to the dimple, but it will to your ears. Wood is
much quieter, but I've always just used a regular metal hammer and hearing
protection. It doesn't really take much force for most of the dimples you need
to make.
Welcome to the RV-8 club.
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Acker" <rvsixer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Reality Check on RV-8 Costs |
>
>In message <004201be23ac$a2cf6340$15e110ac@rob-s-
>station.us.ingrammicro.com>, Robert Acker
>writes
>>>~70K. Can someone share their experience or estimates?
>>
>My wife reads the list so can we please kill this thread.
Hmmmm....a wife who reads the list is a treasured find IMHO !
My wife does not, but then again she's a flyer and is encouraging the RV, no
matter what the cost. Lucky me.....
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
--------------E54415266BF66747006AFC22
Chris Santschi wrote:
I would
> like to know if leaving or removing the plastic coating has any effect
> on the quality of the dimple.
Chris,
IMHO a better dimple is produced with the plastic off. Use a soldering
iron to score the plastic along both sides of the rivet line so you can
remove the plastic covering the holes. Leave the rest on until you rivet
the skins in place. Oh, don't forget to take the plastic off the insides
before riveting.
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993 cowling/baffeling.
--------------E54415266BF66747006AFC22
name="zilik.vcf"
filename="zilik.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Zilik;Gary
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:zilik(at)bewellnet.com
fn:Gary Zilik
end:vcard
--------------E54415266BF66747006AFC22--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
| Subject: | Re: Setrab Oil Cooler Sizing. |
I have, I think, a 9 row Seetrab on my new 0-360-A1A. Ground temps are in
the low 40's here now, and I am indicating 165 degrees F oil temp once
stabilized at 75% power at 3000 ft. Sorry I don't have my outside air
temp gage installed yet.
Ron Vandervort, Just began flying...total 5 hrs....so the engine is tight.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I remove the plastic in the area of the drilled hole before dimpling. The
reason? I found it was hard to deburr the hole if the plastic was still on.
I have used all three kinds of hammers. I saw no difference, but the dead
blow hammer was the quietest. I wear ear protection with all three.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message----- Received my 8 empannage last
week, building jig this week. I would
like to know if leaving or removing the plastic coating has
any effect
on the quality of the dimple.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Garrett <bgarrett2(at)fast.net> |
| Subject: | EI Customer Service |
Listers-
Stories like the one below and Scott M.'s earlier regarding EI are really great
endorsements for the company. And if you are the one who messes up, you have to
love it. But I think there are few if any free lunches. It's probably one of
the reasons I won't be buying EI gauges. These guys sound like they have too
much time and money on their hands for my bank account. I find it frustrating
enough to pay for my own mistakes let alone those of others too.
I don't expect Van to adopt a similar policy any time soon. (No need to worry
about getting that spar together correcly anymore - mess it up, send it back,
get a nice new preassembled Phlogiston one! Mess up enough stuff and you might
get a QB in return! OK, so I'm embellishing a bit!) But I sure do like the
prices of his kits! And Van does (at least in my experience) make good on the
few mistakes that are his responsibility. Nor does he rip me off (ever buy a
part for a Sears product?) when I mess up and need to replace something. Now
that's responsible customer service (IMO).
Bill Garrett - RV-6a (wings have been ignored for a while)
> I would like to pass on a word about this company. I ordered the EI fuel
> gauge from Van's and two weeks after I got it, my dog got a hold of it, and
> chewed up the wiring harness. . . .
> I sent it back to them, and it came back to me a week later, postage paid,
> and an invoice with $0.00 charges on it. This included the harness on the
> unit, and the other harness that plugs into the instrument harness. It was
> also fully tested and re-calibrated. Along with a funny note typed into the
> invoice, they included two dog biscuits for my dogs!
>
> Great customer service..I would recommend them to anyone!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
In a message dated 12/12/98 1:06:20 AM Eastern Standard Time,
rv8(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< you can peel off the plastic
without leaving a single fingerprint, then shoot the primer without having to
clean the metal. >>
When we started building, we tried different techniques of preprimer
preparation on samples. If we only peeled the plastic, etched, and primed it
with Deft ; there was a noticeable lack of adhesion compared to that of
scotchbriting after etching. We have spent a considerable amount of time and
effort scotchbriting until we get a a dull sheen finish on it.
Bernie Kerr, 6a canopy clecoed to frame, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EI Customer Service |
BILL YOU CANT SAY ANY THING BAD ABOUT EI IN MY BOOK. THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR
WAY TO MAKE THE FUEL GAGE WITH BYPASS 1ST ONE USED
TOM RV4 BOUNTY
HUNTER -VAPOR LOCK SYSTEM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Setrab Oil Cooler Sizing. |
<< Last weekend while looking over a local builders Rocket, and
scrounging parts, I picked up a new Setrab 19 row oil cooler for dirt
cheap. In searching through the archives I get the feeling the 19 row
is to big for my O-360-A1A and that a 13 row would be better suited
for my application. Mr. Check Six, what do you think?
>>
I think it will be a bit large. It really depends on your oil temp comfort
level- I like to see 200F or so. This is what I get with with a 19 row and the
540 as installed in my bird at 75%. (I will say that I hardly ever cruise
there-- that pretty fast, and using fuel at 12-13 GPH.) The down side (if you
want to call it that) is 230F in a 140MPH climb to 12,000" on a 90F day. Still
not bad-- it's in Lyc's 'green' range.
My association with Mr Bruce Bohannon has curved my oil temp opinion a bit-
Bruce likes to see 240+ at all times! 325F is normal, and his engines never
have any oil related problems. The effects of a Nitrous Oxide overload are
another matter.., but I digress....
Mark Goldberg is trying a 19 row on his 200HP RV-8- the 13 row wasn't up to
the job. That may be a better application for that cooler, as the IO-360
relies more on the engine oil for cooling. Mark?
Clear as mud?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Setrab Oil Cooler Sizing. |
writes:
<< I have, I think, a 9 row Seetrab on my new 0-360-A1A. Ground temps are in
the low 40's here now, and I am indicating 165 degrees F oil temp once
stabilized at 75% power at 3000 ft. Sorry I don't have my outside air
temp gage installed yet. >>
Local fellas using the 9 row on the 320's are having good luck, with a good
bit of overcooling below 60F. You should be fine.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Vetterman Exhaust |
--------------2805DB3A997C8FF76372E2E8
Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << Just got a call from one of our local RV-4 pilots who told me he just
> discovered 2 cracked pipes in his Vetterman 4-pipe exhaust system (130 hrs
> TT). He called Larry Vetterman and he said that this was the first time he
> had heard of any of his 4-pipe systems developing any cracks. My friend has
> his pipes mounted as Larry recommends with a flexible attachment. He had
> the cracks rewelded but before final installation he would like to ask if
> anyone has had any experience with a rigid mounting system and has anyone
> else reported any cracking problem.
> >>
> This is the first I've heard of any Vetterman system cracking. Ever. The -4 I
> built has 900 hrs on a STEEL 4 pipe system! Incredible!
>
> I'll suggest that a rigid mounting system won't work- too much vibration. Use
> Larry's mounting system- he actually DOES know what he's doing.
>
> The important thing to keep in mind when working with these exhaust systems is
> to keep any strain, no matter how small, out of the mounting system. Don't
> force those pipes! Mount the pipes sort of like they were rod ends- a little
> slop in all directions, no binding. That engine really shakes at startup &
> shutdown.
>
> Check six!
> Mark
>
>
I called Larry to inquire about this exhaust and he verified that this was the
first reported case of a crack in a four pipe system. He was unable to analyze
it since the customer did not send it back although he offered to repair it.
The reason I have posted this is that I have said many times that there were no
known failures of Vetterman exhausts. Now that he has literally sold thousands,
there have been some very rare problems. He will work with you and get you back
in service as soon as possible. I can still say that I have not found a truly
dissatisfied customer. This is a remarkable thing for a product that lives in
such a harsh environment.
If I ever did have a problem I woiuld seriously consider returning it to Larry.
I have seen him in action and find it hard to believe anyone else would have the
expertise, and meticulous procedures he uses to weld up these systems.
D L Wash, 360 hours on RV-6A
--------------2805DB3A997C8FF76372E2E8
--------------2805DB3A997C8FF76372E2E8--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and Trap Door |
Message text written by "Russell Duffy"
>Did you cut the 1.5" hole in the center of the lightening hole area on the
#2 rib? I was positive you weren't supposed to, but I just looked at the
plans, and they don't specifically mention it... Anyway, I don't think that
hole is supposed to be there on the inverted tank, otherwise half of the
fuel would flow out unless you made a second hinged door for that hole. <
Russell, of course, you are right. The plans never say not to cut this
hole and in fact says "the vent and drain holes are such that they will
function in either upright or inverted flight." I wondered about this when
I worked on my ribs and again when I assembled it all, thought I must be
missing something. But, I continued on, following the directions to the
letter, if it doesn't say to do or not do something I am very hesitant to
change. My only excuse here is not thinking it through completly, (brain
dead). My tanks are now complete but I am going to open it up and block
the center hole. The alternative would be carry more fuel and / or roll
the other way to minimize short period loss.
I'm surprised that you are the only one on the list that pointed this out
to me. I was out of town and unsubscribed for a few days so maybe I missed
it all.
I lost Steven Janicki's e-mail & phone (couldn't stop my finger from
hitting delete fast enough) so if you are out there Steve, don't cut that
hole or block it if you already have.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
Opening one tank, leak checking the other.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff videos - Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and Trap |
Door
>
>Message text written by "Russell Duffy"
>>Did you cut the 1.5" hole in the center of the lightening hole area on the
>#2 rib? I was positive you weren't supposed to, but I just looked at the
>plans, and they don't specifically mention it... Anyway, I don't think that
>hole is supposed to be there on the inverted tank, otherwise half of the
>fuel would flow out unless you made a second hinged door for that hole. <
>
>Russell, of course, you are right. The plans never say not to cut this
>hole and in fact says "the vent and drain holes are such that they will
>function in either upright or inverted flight." I wondered about this when
>I worked on my ribs and again when I assembled it all, thought I must be
>missing something. But, I continued on, following the directions to the
>letter, if it doesn't say to do or not do something I am very hesitant to
>change. My only excuse here is not thinking it through completly, (brain
>dead). My tanks are now complete but I am going to open it up and block
>the center hole. The alternative would be carry more fuel and / or roll
>the other way to minimize short period loss.
>
>I'm surprised that you are the only one on the list that pointed this out
>to me. I was out of town and unsubscribed for a few days so maybe I missed
>it all.
>
>
>I lost Steven Janicki's e-mail & phone (couldn't stop my finger from
>hitting delete fast enough) so if you are out there Steve, don't cut that
>hole or block it if you already have.
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>Opening one tank, leak checking the other.
>
Hi Scott,
I strongly suggest you and anyone else that hasn't done so order George's
RV-8 construction videos. This point is covered in his wing video. I don't
follow his construction methods exactly, but they are an invaluable addition
to the plans and Van's instructions.
Steve Johnson
#80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Setrab Oil Cooler Sizing. |
Von:
Do you (or other listers) have any plans/info on putting a cockpit
controllable flap over the oil cooler for control of oil temps?
hilljw(at)aol.com
rv8a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
Russell Duffy wrote:
> > Received my 8 empannage last week, building jig this week. I would
> >like to know if leaving or removing the plastic coating has any effect
> >on the quality of the dimple. I've been to the archive and there is
>
> I've never noticed any difference in the dimple quality. I like to leave the
> plastic on until I'm ready to spray the primer. This cuts way down on the
> possibility of scratches,
Yup, me too.
> and if you're careful, you can peel off the plastic
> without leaving a single fingerprint, then shoot the primer without having to
> clean the metal.
I don't like this idea... often, there's a glue residue left when the
plastic is pulled. Also, here and there around some of the holes or
edges, there is a white deposit which I believe is corrosion. Both the
glue residue and the corrosion need cleaning off. I also like to
Scotchbrite my skins before priming to improve paint adhesion.
> >very few posting's on this. I will be using Cleveland Aircrafts C-frame
> >with their dimple dies, also any thoughts on Ball-Pien,Dead Blow, or
> >wood hammers.
Also consider using a hand-squeezer to make dimples where it can reach.
Much quicker. And quieter.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and Trap Door |
"Scott A. Jordan" wrote:
>
> >Did you cut the 1.5" hole in the center of the lightening hole area on the
> #2 rib? I was positive you weren't supposed to, but I just looked at the
> plans, and they don't specifically mention it... Anyway, I don't think that
> hole is supposed to be there on the inverted tank, otherwise half of the
> fuel would flow out unless you made a second hinged door for that hole. <
>
> I'm surprised that you are the only one on the list that pointed this out
> to me. I was out of town and unsubscribed for a few days so maybe I missed
> it all.
This information *is* in my Bunny's Guide
<http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny2a.htm> in the section pertaining
to Tank Rib Preparation. Other information on fuel tank construction
(including photos) is in <http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny2c.htm>.
The Index to the "Bunny's Guide to RV Building" (covers construction
from Empennage through to Fuselage Bulkheads) can be found at
<http://members.xoom.com/frankv/bunny.htm>.
Frank
Maintainer of the Bunny's Guide
RV-6 #24692 (Finally! closing 2nd wing, building F-605 bulkhead)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plastic Coating
>
>Russell Duffy wrote:
>> > Received my 8 empannage last week, building jig this week. I would
Russell, I've found that you need to remove the plastic on the "female" side
or inside of the skin to insure a good dimple. Its OK to leave the plastic
on the top side of the skin during dimpleing. My 2 cents worth.
Tommy Walker
6A Ridgetop, Tennessee (GO BIG ORANGE)>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Luker, Michael G." <luker.michael(at)mayo.edu> |
Has anyone developed a good reliable jacking method for changing the tires
on the RV6A. I'm getting to old and my back and legs are getting sore from
lifting the airplane and removing the tires. Please respond to my E-mail
address. luker.michael(at)mayo.edu thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mikel(at)dimensional.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron push tube |
>Had he disassembled the assembly, he would have discovered that he'd missed
>the threaded insert with one rivet on each end. In other words, he had only
one >rivet per end........
>
>Yikes! I plan on having mine welded in place.
I had mine welded in place. Look great. STRONG. ARRRGGggggggg. Why not; they
are both steel.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Setrab Oil Cooler Sizing. |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Hi;
I have my Setrab Oil cooler mounted horizontally between the lower 'fork'
of the engine mount. This worked out great for fit, although the airplane
has not flown yet. Have had many 'old pros' look at it though, and they
all say it should work fine. I have two 2" ducts going from the rear
baffle on each side down to the cooler. After I see how this works out
for temps, I can easily add a controllable door, or perhaps look into the
'ball valve idea' for controlling oil flow and thus temps. Keep in touch.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>Von:
>Do you (or other listers) have any plans/info on putting a cockpit
>controllable flap over the oil cooler for control of oil temps?
>hilljw(at)aol.com
>rv8a
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Polished spinner |
Doug,
Take your spinner to a chrome plater or metal polisher and have it polished.
My Mooney spinner cost me $45.00 to polish.
Bob Cornacchia
RV6 working on wings
PS after you polish it put on some metal sealer to keep it shinny for about 1
year than clean and seal it every year after.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Polished spinner for sale |
I have a polished spinner of a mooney for a O360 lyc engine.
Spinner and backing plate $250.00.
E-mail me direct if interested.
Bob Cornacchia
RV6ARC(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Listers
This morning at 8:45 am N143CH left Terra firma for the first time.
It was just one time around the patter due to a low ceiling.
With my good friend Jim Cammons behind the wheel ( Remember, I'm the
nut who does not have a pilots license ) it flew straight and level
with no problems at all.
After 5 years and 3 months, my dream has come true.
Now, if I can just learn how to fly the damn thing!
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee FL.
The third -4 flying in TLH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Has anyone developed a good reliable jacking method for changing the tires
on the RV6A. >>
I just screw the tie down hooks into the wing and jack that side up using my
hydraulic floor jack sitting on a crate. Takes all of 2 minutes.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)crosscountybank.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
REMOVE FROM MAILING LIST
<<< Craig Hiers 12/12 7:46p >>>
Listers
This morning at 8:45 am N143CH left Terra firma for the first time.
It was just one time around the patter due to a low ceiling.
With my good friend Jim Cammons behind the wheel ( Remember, I'm the
nut who does not have a pilots license ) it flew straight and level
with no problems at all.
After 5 years and 3 months, my dream has come true.
Now, if I can just learn how to fly the damn thing!
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee FL.
The third -4 flying in TLH
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Charlie Kuss,
Please forgive for sending this through the list--forgot your E mail
address. The Bosch plugs I am using are DR8BPX. They seem to be the
correct heat range--nice tan color.
Regards, Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
All due respects, I find that sorta, well, incredible. If that was so, why
not just make the whole airplane out of fabric like my old L-3? The fact is
that fabric didn't hold up well to the abuse of machine gun or AAA fire.
Fabric has a nasty tendency to tear when it's integrity is breached.
Regards,
Doug Hormann
-----Original Message-----
From: susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Control Surface
>
>the surface was fabric, because bullet holes would not tear up the surface
as it
>would in metal....jolly
>
>Doug Hormann wrote:
>
>>
>> I wouldn't be too worried. After all the P-51 rudder was fabric
>> covered. I've been told that this was to help prevent flutter, although
>> why fabric would do this I don't know, unless it has some inherent
>> dampening effect.
>>
>> Doug Hormann
>>
>> Tim Sewell wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I was curious as to why the control surfaces (at least on the emp)
>> > are of such thinner skins then the stabilizers? I would think even
>> > more force would be applied to them because they deflect.
>> >
>> > Thank you and regards,
>> >
>> > Tim
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------
>> > Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
>> > | \-/ |
>> >
>> > ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
>> >
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Circuit Breakers |
Need some advice on circuit breakers. How about some pros and cons on
using the switches with the circuit breakers all in one unit. What is the
advantage of having the circuit breakers separate from the switches? Van's
wiring diagram supplied with the electrical wiring kit shows circuit
breaker type switches.
How about some info old(and young) wise ones!!
Bill(I am a simple man with only simple needs) Pagan
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
There is an article in an old RVater about using a plumbing clamp around the
bottom of the gear leg. You use a scissors jack on the ground to jack it up.
It works pretty good and there may be less risk of damaging the wing,
especially if you have to do it outdoors.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: how much cleanup? |
You want to remove the sharp edges--reduce the edge and also remove burrs and
smooth knicks. A deburring knife and a quick swipe with Scoth Brite should
usually suffice. You mentioned using your hand as a measuring gauge--"if it
does not cut it must be ok." This is something of a misnomer-- it takes a
sharp razor blade to cut my hands but you may cut a lot easier and why do you
want to bleed on your aluminum any way. Break the edge--that is usually
enough. I been to get stiches so many times they at the emergency room knew me
by my familar name. Now that I have moved I am sure to make a lot of new
friends at the local hospital. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
That was the thinking in thoes days...I didn't say it was right!
grinnnn......jolly
Doug Hormann wrote:
>
> All due respects, I find that sorta, well, incredible. If that was so, why
> not just make the whole airplane out of fabric like my old L-3? The fact is
> that fabric didn't hold up well to the abuse of machine gun or AAA fire.
> Fabric has a nasty tendency to tear when it's integrity is breached.
>
> Regards,
>
> Doug Hormann
> -----Original Message-----
> From: susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Control Surface
>
> >
> >the surface was fabric, because bullet holes would not tear up the surface
> as it
> >would in metal....jolly
> >
> >Doug Hormann wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I wouldn't be too worried. After all the P-51 rudder was fabric
> >> covered. I've been told that this was to help prevent flutter, although
> >> why fabric would do this I don't know, unless it has some inherent
> >> dampening effect.
> >>
> >> Doug Hormann
> >>
> >> Tim Sewell wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I was curious as to why the control surfaces (at least on the emp)
> >> > are of such thinner skins then the stabilizers? I would think even
> >> > more force would be applied to them because they deflect.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you and regards,
> >> >
> >> > Tim
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >> > Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
> >> > | \-/ |
> >> >
> >> > ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: EI Customer Service |
>
>Stories like the one below and Scott M.'s earlier regarding EI are
>really great
>endorsements for the company. And if you are the one who messes up,
>you have to
>love it. But I think there are few if any free lunches. It's
>probably one of
>the reasons I won't be buying EI gauges. These guys sound like they
>have too
>much time and money on their hands for my bank account. I find it
>frustrating
>enough to pay for my own mistakes let alone those of others too.
>
I can see how you would look at it that way, but for the most part I
disagree with you.
A company that sells as quality of a product as they do does a high
enough volume that I'm sure they can afford to do this on the rare
occasion that it happens.
I highly doubt that the volume of E.I. instruments that get damaged by
customer mistakes comes anywhere close to the level of parts that Van's
ships out to customers every year.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
I like to
>leave the
>plastic on until I'm ready to spray the primer. This cuts way down on
>the
>possibility of scratches, and if you're careful, you can peel off the
>plastic
>without leaving a single fingerprint, then shoot the primer without
>having to
>clean the metal.
I strongly discourage you from doing this.
The plastic is to protect the material, but it does not mean that the
skin is clean and ready to prime.
Aluminum as received raw from the mill has milling lube on it (a very
slight amount of an oily substance).
This is not cleaned off by the production people at Van's before
laminating with the plastic.
I'm sure it is then obvious that if you don't want to be wasting your
time and money priming your parts, you really should follow the
instructions for the primer that you are using and clean the parts if you
want to be sure the primer will adhere well.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
In a message dated 12/12/98 6:01:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jollyd(at)teleport.com writes:
<< That was the thinking in thoes days...I didn't say it was right!
grinnnn......jolly >>
In regard to fabric rudder covering on World War Two fighters, this is
something to consider. Could it be that they used fabric because of the ease
with which it can be reapplied? Remember that they may have had to do a lot
of repairs due to the flying conditions. Just a thought.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/12/98 1:17:15 PM Pacific Standard Time,
luker.michael(at)mayo.edu writes:
<<
Has anyone developed a good reliable jacking method for changing the tires
on the RV6A. I'm getting to old and my back and legs are getting sore from
lifting the airplane and removing the tires. Please respond to my E-mail
address. luker.michael(at)mayo.edu thanks.
>>
Here is something you fellas ought to consider
before you install your
engine mount. I took my mount to my welder type buddy and had him weld two
pieces of tubing (jack points) on the landing gear reciever tubes. My old
Swift wing jacks work swell on my -4
Fred
LaForge RV-4 15 hrs
on it now, You guys are gonna love your airplanes!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
How's about they're much lighter (as mentioned before - especially with 100%
balanced surfaces). And, metal was getting rare, particularly aluminum!
Had to make guns, bombs, ammo and planes.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EI Customer Service |
<36725FFB.23ADB8F(at)fast.net> <19981122.142428.6774.1.SMcDaniels(at)juno.com>
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Stories like the one below and Scott M.'s earlier regarding EI are
> >really great
> >endorsements for the company. And if you are the one who messes up,
> >you have to
> >love it. But I think there are few if any free lunches. It's
> >probably one of
> >the reasons I won't be buying EI gauges. These guys sound like they
> >have too
> >much time and money on their hands for my bank account. I find it
> >frustrating
> >enough to pay for my own mistakes let alone those of others too.
> >
I'm curious, Have you ever managed your own business?
Craig Hiers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Electric Bob,
My new RV-8 necessitates mounting the battery mid-ships instead of near
the firewall.What are the pros & cons of making the ground connection
directly to the airframe at the battery location instead of running a # 2
cable fore ward to the firewall ( and then to the engine case). My Fluke
reads 0.0 ohms from the battery location to the firewall.
Regards, Bill N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
>
>I wouldn't be too worried. After all the P-51 rudder was fabric
>covered. I've been told that this was to help prevent flutter, although
>why fabric would do this I don't know, unless it has some inherent
>dampening effect.
Fabric reduces the mass of the control surface so that there is less
deflection due to acceleration.
Think about a flutter incident in very slow motion (use pitch for this
thought experiment). Assume for now an unbalanced elevator. Something
disturbs the aircraft such that the empanage is accelerated upward.
Because the elevator has mass, it is "left behind" and starts to deflect
downward. But wait, this downward deflection increases the upward force
and, hence, acceleration of the empanage. Eventually the empanage deflects
sufficiently to change the AoA of the horizontal stab to cancel the effect
of the elevator and the empanage begins to accelerate in the opposite
direction but now the elevator has upward velocity so it starts to move
upward thus reversing this process.
If the surface is balanced and rigid, this process can't get started. If
the imbalance is slight this process damps out very quickly. Fabric
covered control surfaces have very low mass so the aerodynamic forces tend
to swamp mass effects thus making it difficult to get a flutter event started.
But you can imagine what will happen if you forget to balance your control
surfaces.
Airplanes are such cool physics laboratories. Not only that but they fly too!
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Control Surface |
Most WWII airplanes had fabric control surfaces because they were lighter
and easier to balance. I am not sure that control balance was completely
understood at that time, but it was common knowledge that lighter control
surfaces meant faster airplanes. Also most of the airplanes at that time
got very heavy on the controls at high speeds so every effort was made to
keep them light. You must remember that before WWII the speed limit for
most aircraft was around 200 mph. Technology was moving fast. I have flown
Twin Beeches that had both fabric and metal control surfaces and believe me
the fabric is better! Even if it does have to be replaced now and then!
Since then we figured out better ways to make control surfaces light.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bart Dalton" <Planenutts(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I really enjoy the list but could you remove me for now.
Thanks
Planenutts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n9hf" <n9hf(at)ticon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 12/12/98 |
PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM YOUR RV LIST.
Dave Kerl
----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
BILL IM RUNNING DUAL BATTERIES AFT OF BAGGAGE HAVE USED TOP RAILS FOR GROUND
IN MY RV4 FOR YEARS
REGARDS TOM RV8 TIO540SIAD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congrats!
Great to hear of one that I have seen "in progress" take to the air.
James
RV6AQB .. controls
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 5:45 PM
Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>
>Listers
>This morning at 8:45 am N143CH left Terra firma for the first time.
>It was just one time around the patter due to a low ceiling.
>With my good friend Jim Cammons behind the wheel ( Remember, I'm the
>nut who does not have a pilots license ) it flew straight and level
>with no problems at all.
>After 5 years and 3 months, my dream has come true.
>Now, if I can just learn how to fly the damn thing!
>
>Craig Hiers
>RV-4 N143CH
>Tallahassee FL.
>The third -4 flying in TLH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Craig,
Congratulations on the first flight of your plane! Just wait till you get to
fly it, you will have a grin a mile wide when that happens.
Ask me how I know. My first flight was last month and the second flight was
yesterday and even better than the first. I'm still grinning!
Once again, congrats, what a great achivement you have accomplished.
Gary Bray
Carmel, Maine
RV-6 N827GB
3.8 Hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
--------------B0E21059821BFF3D6E15BF6E
There have been several good suggestions on jacking RVs; however in my
opinion the best way is to use the system sold by (who else) Larry
Vetterman. It requires modifying the axle nut and allows you to slip
the device into the end of the axle and use a small bottle jack to raise
the wheel. It is difficult to describe but it has a pendulum action
which allows the plane and gear to shift a little while raising yet
remain stable.
Because of the slant and springiness of the gear, the plane wants to
wobble a little as it is raised, and you have a chance to drop it , if
you are using the wing or a fixed point on the leg. Engine mount would
be tricky for a 6A (Maybe with a tail stand?) and you have to be careful
not to stress the tubing enough to deform it.
For info purposes, I have found the need to jack about every 75 to a 100
hours either to reverse the tires or repack bearings. Normally changing
the pads does not require jacking.
There are a lot of ways to skin the cat but this is my analysis and why
I did it. I have been very happy with the performance of the system.
D Walsh RV-6A
--------------B0E21059821BFF3D6E15BF6E
--------------B0E21059821BFF3D6E15BF6E--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stubby ELT Antennas |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
I heard by way of the 'grapevine' that an RVer that is an electronics
expert is successfully using a 'stubby' antenna on his ELT. Apparently
it is available at Radio Shack. Looking through the catalog, the only
thing I could imagine that would work would be the VHF stubby antenna,
for $9.99. Will this work, or would the range of the ELT be severely
restricted? There are stubbys in the catalog for CB's, and Cellular, but
I assume these would not work due to the frequency range. If I could
find one that will work, it would make it a lot easier for me to locate
it in my RV-8. The Radio Shack stubby is Part #RSU-11437407.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Which wing for the flop tube? |
If I were to put a flop tube in just one tank, which one should it be? Does
it make a difference?
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which wing for the flop tube? |
>
>If I were to put a flop tube in just one tank, which one should it be?
Does
>it make a difference?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 Page at:
>http://tabshred.com/moe
>
Moe,
I put mine in the left tank, merely because the plans show it that way.
I can't think of any reason why it could not be put in the right tank.
I've heard of some builders configuring both tanks this way.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
>
> Has anyone developed a good reliable jacking method for changing the tires
> on the RV6A. I'm getting to old and my back and legs are getting sore from
> lifting the airplane and removing the tires. Please respond to my E-mail
> address. luker.michael(at)mayo.edu thanks.
I bought a jack kit (from Avery, I think) that allows one to jack the aircraft
up using a standard bottle jack sitting on the floor. The kit (about $45 as I
recall) contains the hardware to make a minor modification to the main gear's
large aluminum wheel nut so that a jack adapter (included) will slide thru the
nut into the RV's axle. One can then jack the aircraft up by the axle. To
remove the tire you'd need to jack the plane up, spin off the nut, pull the
wheel out onto the jack adpater, lower the axle onto a small wooden block,
remove the adapter, and voila, there's your wheel. You can probably do the job
in not much longer than it takes to read this. I'm pretty happy with the
system. It took maybe 2 hours to make the modifications to the wheel nuts, and
I've used the jack system quite a bit while mounting my wheel pants.
Tim Lewis
RV-6AQ #60023
Main Gear Fairings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternater Conversion |
>
> I took my internal regulator Denso alternator (Came with my Aero Sport engine)
> to several auto electric/alternater-starter shops today to bypass the
> regulator. Cheapest quote I got was $125!!! Does anyone know someplace I can
> send it to get this done for a reasonable price. My ultimate goal is
> overvoltage protection which from the archives is not possible with internal
> regulator. Thanks
My home page has info on how I converted a 60 amp auto alternator to external
regulator (I got the info from Mark LaBoyteaux). Perhaps you can look inside
your alternator and see if it's similar. The basic idea is to rewire the thing
so
you can drive the field coil directly from your external regualtor.
My cost: $40 for alternator from junk yard, $50 for new brushes and bearings.
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a , then click on "alternator modification".
Tim Lewis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
| Subject: | Oil cooler sizing |
For what it is worth:
Over the years high oil temperatures under certain conditions have been a
worry on many aircraft I have flown and as a result tend to lean towards
the larger coolers.
I have no experience with coolers on light aircraft other than Stewart
Warner Southwind and have one installed on my RV 6. The decision to use it
was based on the fact that over the years have never had one fail and in
the interest of safety always like to go with a proven product and
something one is comfortable with.
I have it installed flush with the bottom of the left hand air inlet
between the cowl and the cylinder. It holds the oil temp right at 180
degrees (the vernatherm setting ) through the entire flight envelope. As
the outside air temp drops (fall and winter conditions) below freezing the
oil temp will drop below the vernatherm setting. I control this by
partially covering the cooler with a piece of 032 secured by the same bolts
that secure the cooler.
Lycoming recommends a normal oil temp of 180 degrees with a red line of 245
for the 0360. My own personal feelings on this are, 180 degrees is adequate
to burn of the condensation but cool enough to help cool the engine in
general and also keep the oil pressure up.
Recently tried to help a friend with a I0360 in a RV 4 with a rear mounted
cooler and was unable to get the oil temp below 210-220 in cruise with a
outside air temp of 80 degrees. Any suggestions on this would be
appreciated.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C. Fuselage 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Orndorff videos - Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and Trap |
Door
Scott, My installation of the flop tube is a retrofit. Thus I am covering
the lightning hole in the #2 rib. I am almost done with the conversion. Not
terribly difficult just time consuming and a bit of contorting to get the
Cherry Rivets installed. As soon as I finish I will write up the details of
what I did so there will be a reference in the archives for anyone wanting
to know how I did my Flop Tube retrofit.
Thank's for considering me!
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Johnson <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 1998 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Orndorff videos - Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and
Trap Door
>
>Message text written by "Russell Duffy"
>>Did you cut the 1.5" hole in the center of the lightening hole area on the
>#2 rib? I was positive you weren't supposed to, but I just looked at the
>plans, and they don't specifically mention it... Anyway, I don't think that
>hole is supposed to be there on the inverted tank, otherwise half of the
>fuel would flow out unless you made a second hinged door for that hole. <
>
>Russell, of course, you are right. The plans never say not to cut this
>hole and in fact says "the vent and drain holes are such that they will
>function in either upright or inverted flight." I wondered about this when
>I worked on my ribs and again when I assembled it all, thought I must be
>missing something. But, I continued on, following the directions to the
>letter, if it doesn't say to do or not do something I am very hesitant to
>change. My only excuse here is not thinking it through completly, (brain
>dead). My tanks are now complete but I am going to open it up and block
>the center hole. The alternative would be carry more fuel and / or roll
>the other way to minimize short period loss.
>
>I'm surprised that you are the only one on the list that pointed this out
>to me. I was out of town and unsubscribed for a few days so maybe I missed
>it all.
>
>
>I lost Steven Janicki's e-mail & phone (couldn't stop my finger from
>hitting delete fast enough) so if you are out there Steve, don't cut that
>hole or block it if you already have.
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>Opening one tank, leak checking the other.
>
Hi Scott,
I strongly suggest you and anyone else that hasn't done so order George's
RV-8 construction videos. This point is covered in his wing video. I don't
follow his construction methods exactly, but they are an invaluable addition
to the plans and Van's instructions.
Steve Johnson
#80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
Got my RV-8 quick build and noticed that both flap trailing edges had a
slight bow in them, about 1/16". Will this be a problem? Should the TE be
perfectly straight?
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q #591
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MacBooze(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: -8 Flap Bracket |
Listers,
Found a machinist to bend the 406A flap bracket piece from 90 deg. to the
required 88 deg. for just a couple of $. Used an hydraulic press and
precision protractor. Did an excellent job.
FWIW,
Greg
Ready to close -8 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stubby ELT Antennas |
Hi Von,
ELT's transmit on AM at 121.5mhz. The AM doesn't matter but the
frequency lies right in the two meter band for amateurs. You have a lot
of choices here. There are 1/4 wave and 5/8 wave normally available. The
1/4 wave normal element is about 19.5" long. The 5/8 wave is about 3
feet long depending on the manufacturer and the loading coils they use.
Now there are shorties that use the loading coils to simulate to the
transmitter a longer antenna (so it doesn't overheat from reflected
signals), but emit a sufficient signal to communicate with. The antennas
used on handheld units like this are called rubber duckies.
They work very fine for all line-of-sight communications. It has been
said that they have been used to communicate with USSR's MIR
spacestation without a problem. Remember line-of-sight. ELT's operate in
much of the same relationship, from the earth's surface to an object in
orbit.
Don't try anything from CB band. They operate around the 11-meter band
area.
Happy Hunting
Bill Jaugilas
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
>
>
> I heard by way of the 'grapevine' that an RVer that is an electronics
> expert is successfully using a 'stubby' antenna on his ELT. Apparently
> it is available at Radio Shack. Looking through the catalog, the only
> thing I could imagine that would work would be the VHF stubby antenna,
> for $9.99. Will this work, or would the range of the ELT be severely
> restricted? There are stubbys in the catalog for CB's, and Cellular, but
> I assume these would not work due to the frequency range. If I could
> find one that will work, it would make it a lot easier for me to locate
> it in my RV-8. The Radio Shack stubby is Part #RSU-11437407.
>
> Von Alexander
> RV-8 N41VA
> N41VA(at)juno.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | refractive eye surgery |
sorry for off topic request, but:
Has anyone on the list had refractive eye surgery (specifically, LASIK)
& NOT had to jump through special certification hoops?
Any Medical Examiners who have passed a candidate after LASIK?
Personal experience only please, & respond off list unless there is
obvious wide spread interest.
It's getting to be affordable now, and I'd really like to cut back to
just reading glasses, but I'm not willing to be grounded for months.
Thanks,
Charlie
cengland(at)netdoor.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: QB Warped Flaps |
>
>Got my RV-8 quick build and noticed that both flap trailing edges had a
>slight bow in them, about 1/16". Will this be a problem? Should the TE
be
>perfectly straight?
>
>Mike Robbins
>RV-8Q #591
>Issaquah, WA
Mike,
Only 1/16 inch? Consider yourself blessed! If only mine were that
straight. Take a look at some trailing edges on the local spam can
population near your home. Scary.
Brian Denk
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: refractive eye surgery |
Charlie and Tupper England wrote:
>
>
> sorry for off topic request, but:
>
> Has anyone on the list had refractive eye surgery (specifically, LASIK)
> & NOT had to jump through special certification hoops?
>
> Any Medical Examiners who have passed a candidate after LASIK?
>
> Personal experience only please, & respond off list unless there is
> obvious wide spread interest.
>
> It's getting to be affordable now, and I'd really like to cut back to
> just reading glasses, but I'm not willing to be grounded for months.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
> cengland(at)netdoor.com
>
This is off topic but it is something that could be of interest
to RVers. Can't speak about LASIK but I had RK in both eyes in
1994 and did not have any problems with Medical at all. If you
do not plan to fly for military or commercial airline there is
not a problem. I had it done on a Thursday and went flying on
Saturday. It was absolutely painless, the first 12 hours or so
it felt like I had something in my eyes but that was gone the
next morning. I could not read the large letter on the eye chart
without glasses before, now I am 20/20 in one eye and 20/25 in
the other. I do have to use the old cheaters for reading but most
of us old guys have to do that. For most of my flying I use
Verilux sunglasses that have no Rx in the upper part and
progressive in the lower so as to be able to look down read
a chart or see any part of the panel clearly. I love it and am
glad that I had it done my experience has been positive.
Jerry Springer CFI | RV-6 Flying since 1989 | Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: refractive eye surgery |
>sorry for off topic request, but:
>
>Has anyone on the list had refractive eye surgery (specifically, LASIK)
>& NOT had to jump through special certification hoops?
>
>Any Medical Examiners who have passed a candidate after LASIK?
snip I'd really like to cut back to
>just reading glasses, but I'm not willing to be grounded for months.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie
Charlie--The short answer is with LASIK you shouldn't have trouble with
either recovery or the FAA.
Some airlines have specific policies regarding refractive surgery, but the
FAA only cares that you pass the vision requirements for your medical.
Some AMEs who are unfamiliar with the procedure are requiring letters
regarding the nature of the surgery, but this doesn't happen very often.
I have done this surgery on 10-15 pilots and have not had any problems with
any class of medical, other than having to write 3 or 4 letters to AMEs for
1st and 2nd class applicants
I'm happy to answer questions if you want.
James Freeman
RV-8 tail, MD/ophthalmology
P.S. If you want me to do it, it's probably more efficient to send the
money direclty to Van's :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Which wing for the flop tube? |
>If I were to put a flop tube in just one tank, which one should it be?<
Moe,
I put mine in the left tank "just because". Probably because thats where
the plans show it. If I were building a -6 I would put it in the right.
When solo from the left seat fuel in the right tank for aerobatics and
litle or none in the right would offset the slight imbalance.
On an -8, the only factor I can think of is which way do you like to do
your knife edge passes? If you plan on using fuel from the "top" wing
(right in a left knife edge) the fuel will be better traped in the inboard
section of the tank and the little trap door is less of a factor. It would
probably be a very long knife edge pass for this to becaome a factor
though, how long will it take for the fuel to leak past the trap door and
various vent holes away from the flop tube?
Scott A. Jordan
80331
wings complete, no leaks! Fuse on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers |
<< How about some pros and cons on
using the switches with the circuit breakers all in one unit. What is the
advantage of having the circuit breakers separate from the switches? >>
We used this approach in the two Kitfoxes we built. Advantage is lower parts
count and simplicity. They work well to this day (550 hrs on one and 250 hrs
on the other).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "n9hf" <n9hf(at)ticon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stubby ELT Antennas |
Hi guys,
Please do not use the stubby type antennas on any outside surface of an aircraft,
or any other application that may be exposed to the elements.
Stubby, or rubber duck antennas are desinged for hand held use, which means they
use a type BNC, (most of them) connector. THESE ARE NOT WATER PROOF, AND WILL
FILL WITH WATER. Not a good situation when you need to radiate r.f.
Also, Radio Shack DOES NOT SELL ANY TRANSMITTING RUBBER DUCKS FOR THE AIRCRAFT
BAND. They sell them for the Amateur Radio band, known as 2 meters, which is
144-148 mHz. A long way from the aircraft frequencies. The transmitter will not
work into this load.
Dave Kerl N9HF (Amateur Radio callsign)
----------
>
>
> Hi Von,
> ELT's transmit on AM at 121.5mhz. The AM doesn't matter but the
> frequency lies right in the two meter band for amateurs. You have a lot
> of choices here. There are 1/4 wave and 5/8 wave normally available. The
> 1/4 wave normal element is about 19.5" long. The 5/8 wave is about 3
> feet long depending on the manufacturer and the loading coils they use.
> Now there are shorties that use the loading coils to simulate to the
> transmitter a longer antenna (so it doesn't overheat from reflected
> signals), but emit a sufficient signal to communicate with. The antennas
> used on handheld units like this are called rubber duckies.
> They work very fine for all line-of-sight communications. It has been
> said that they have been used to communicate with USSR's MIR
> spacestation without a problem. Remember line-of-sight. ELT's operate in
> much of the same relationship, from the earth's surface to an object in
> orbit.
> Don't try anything from CB band. They operate around the 11-meter band
> area.
> Happy Hunting
> Bill Jaugilas
>
>
> VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
> >
> >
> > I heard by way of the 'grapevine' that an RVer that is an electronics
> > expert is successfully using a 'stubby' antenna on his ELT. Apparently
> > it is available at Radio Shack. Looking through the catalog, the only
> > thing I could imagine that would work would be the VHF stubby antenna,
> > for $9.99. Will this work, or would the range of the ELT be severely
> > restricted? There are stubbys in the catalog for CB's, and Cellular, but
> > I assume these would not work due to the frequency range. If I could
> > find one that will work, it would make it a lot easier for me to locate
> > it in my RV-8. The Radio Shack stubby is Part #RSU-11437407.
> >
> > Von Alexander
> > RV-8 N41VA
> > N41VA(at)juno.com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | Re: refractive eye surgery |
>>I'm happy to answer questions if you want.
>
>James Freeman
>
>RV-8 tail, MD/ophthalmology
>
>P.S. If you want me to do it, it's probably more efficient to send the
>money direclty to Van's :-)
Where do you practice? I have been considering refractive surgery, but am a
bit timid where my eyes are involved.
P.S. Where do you find the time to build and practice?
Louis
Louis I. Willig , RV-4
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/12/98 8:14:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com writes:
<< There is an article in an old RVater about using a plumbing clamp around
the
bottom of the gear leg. You use a scissors jack on the ground to jack it up.
It works pretty good and there may be less risk of damaging the wing,
especially if you have to do it outdoors.
>>
They are pretty hard to locate, but I finally found one and beleive it was
worth the effort after I helped a friend jack up his 6A with it.
Sam Buchanan shows one he made for the leg to use until the leg fairing is
installed. Look at his web site. RV
journal SAm BuchananLINK TO 6 POH
Bernie Kerr, 6A canopy and firewall mounting stuff, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: refractive eye surgery |
In a message dated 12/13/98 4:48:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cd005677(at)mindspring.com writes:
<< James Freeman
RV-8 tail, MD/ophthalmology
P.S. If you want me to do it, it's probably more efficient to send the
money direclty to Van's :-)
>>
And where are you located Dr. Freeman?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ripsteel(at)edge.net (Mark Phillips) |
Please remove me- I'd love to stay, but too much time on the PC,
not enough on the RV! Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Inverted Fuel Anti Hangup Guides and Trap Door |
Check Fig 7-6 titled "Altering the fuel tank for inverted flight" in the
pre-punch manual,
or SK-38 in the older pre pre-punch manual. Should answer your questions.
Fig 7-6 is the
better of the two.
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6 (N606RV) - Waiting for fuse to arrive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
I tried to mount my -8 tanks today and they didn't fit!!!
Seems the bead of pro-seal on the rear baffle plate flange is preventing
the tank from sliding straight back onto the spar. As it travels the last
1/2" back it slides inboard and none of the holes lne up. I have trimmed
the bead of sealant from the inboard 12 inches of the rear baffle and the
outboard rib and I swear I have clearance but the holes are still 1/16"
off. Has anyone else had this problem?
Scott A. Jordan
80331
no leaks but, the tanks don't do any good if they don't fit!!
Fuselage on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stubby ELT Antennas |
I beg to differ.
121.5 mhz is not far from 144mhz.
I have used them in the past with good results.
Bill Jaugilas N9WLT
73
n9hf wrote:
>
>
> Hi guys,
> Please do not use the stubby type antennas on any outside surface of an aircraft,
or any other application that may be exposed to the elements.
> Stubby, or rubber duck antennas are desinged for hand held use, which means they
use a type BNC, (most of them) connector. THESE ARE NOT WATER PROOF, AND WILL
FILL WITH WATER. Not a good situation when you need to radiate r.f.
> Also, Radio Shack DOES NOT SELL ANY TRANSMITTING RUBBER DUCKS FOR THE AIRCRAFT
BAND. They sell them for the Amateur Radio band, known as 2 meters, which is
144-148 mHz. A long way from the aircraft frequencies. The transmitter will
not work into this load.
> Dave Kerl N9HF (Amateur Radio callsign)
>
> ----------
> >
> >
> > Hi Von,
> > ELT's transmit on AM at 121.5mhz. The AM doesn't matter but the
> > frequency lies right in the two meter band for amateurs. You have a lot
> > of choices here. There are 1/4 wave and 5/8 wave normally available. The
> > 1/4 wave normal element is about 19.5" long. The 5/8 wave is about 3
> > feet long depending on the manufacturer and the loading coils they use.
> > Now there are shorties that use the loading coils to simulate to the
> > transmitter a longer antenna (so it doesn't overheat from reflected
> > signals), but emit a sufficient signal to communicate with. The antennas
> > used on handheld units like this are called rubber duckies.
> > They work very fine for all line-of-sight communications. It has been
> > said that they have been used to communicate with USSR's MIR
> > spacestation without a problem. Remember line-of-sight. ELT's operate in
> > much of the same relationship, from the earth's surface to an object in
> > orbit.
> > Don't try anything from CB band. They operate around the 11-meter band
> > area.
> > Happy Hunting
> > Bill Jaugilas
> >
> >
> > VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I heard by way of the 'grapevine' that an RVer that is an electronics
> > > expert is successfully using a 'stubby' antenna on his ELT. Apparently
> > > it is available at Radio Shack. Looking through the catalog, the only
> > > thing I could imagine that would work would be the VHF stubby antenna,
> > > for $9.99. Will this work, or would the range of the ELT be severely
> > > restricted? There are stubbys in the catalog for CB's, and Cellular, but
> > > I assume these would not work due to the frequency range. If I could
> > > find one that will work, it would make it a lot easier for me to locate
> > > it in my RV-8. The Radio Shack stubby is Part #RSU-11437407.
> > >
> > > Von Alexander
> > > RV-8 N41VA
> > > N41VA(at)juno.com
> > >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stubby ELT Antennas |
-----Original Message-----
From: VON L ALEXANDER <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 10:03 AM
Subject: RV-List: Stubby ELT Antennas
>
>I heard by way of the 'grapevine' that an RVer that is an electronics
>expert is successfully using a 'stubby' antenna on his ELT. Apparently
>it is available at Radio Shack. Looking through the catalog, the only
>thing I could imagine that would work would be the VHF stubby antenna,
>for $9.99. Will this work, or would the range of the ELT be severely
>restricted?
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
Von,
Shortened, stubby, or rubber ducky antennas use an inductor (coil) to
electrically substitute inductance for the shortened physical length of the
antenna. A handheld aircraft transceiver (HT) is a good example. In
general the only downside is bandwidth. That means that the antenna can no
longer tune the whole aircraft band without performance compromise,
sometimes total shutdown at band edges due to high SWR (standing wave
ratio). IF (big qualifier!) the stubby antenna is tuned for 121.5 MHz there
is little loss in radiated power over a quarter-wave antenna (standard
issue).
However, it is so easy to bend an ELT antenna in an arc to get it to fit
inside the baggage compartment that I will go that way.
Dennis Persyk
N9DP amateur radio (N9DP issued to a destroyed balloon and all owners
deceased - can't get it for my RV)
RV6A canopy
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: refractive eye surgery |
Charlie,
I'm responding on list, because there may be others who are interested. I
underwent radial keratotomy about 10 years ago to correct my severe
nearsightedness (approx. 20/400 each eye.) The surgery was relatively
painless, although there was some minor discomfort for a few week after.
The surgery was done on one eye at a time, approximately 1 month apart. The
result was that I was corrected to about 20/40 in each eye. As was typical
of RK at that time, the doctor would try to get pretty close and then do a
small touch up operation to fine tune the result after the initial surgery
was done. I never went back for the tune-up as I was starting a new job and
couldn't take the time off to do it.
The surgery left me with a bit of astigmatism in each eye. I still wear
glasses, but can function without them if necessary. They are required to
fly, however. I've never been questioned about the surgery by an AME. They
check my eyes as in any other medical renewal and if I pass, I get my
medical.
Some things to consider. After the surgery, your eyes will adjust gradually
as the cornea's "settle down". During that time, your prescription will
change, sometimes almost daily. After about a month, it will stabilize and
you will be able to get a more or less permanent perscription. Also, people
who've gotten RK tend to develope farsightedness a little earlier than they
would had the surgery not been done. Therefore, bifocals may come into your
life at an earlier age! Another thing has to do with contact lenses. I
used to wear contacts before my surgery, but found that I couldn't wear them
afterwards. I understand that some new lenses are available now for RK
recipients, but I've not tried them. I'm going in for an eye exam next week
and will probably talk to my doctor about them then.
Overall, I've been happy with the results and would do it again if I had to
make the decision over. I've no personal experience with laser surgery, but
have heard that the recover time is less.
Regards,
Doug Hormann
>sorry for off topic request, but:
>
>Has anyone on the list had refractive eye surgery (specifically, LASIK)
>& NOT had to jump through special certification hoops?
>
>Any Medical Examiners who have passed a candidate after LASIK?
>
>Personal experience only please, & respond off list unless there is
>obvious wide spread interest.
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie
>cengland(at)netdoor.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Which wing for the flop tube? |
For the record, I'm building mine in the right tank. For the reason someone
else stated, the fuel in that tank will offset my bulk, at least when I
start out. I plan to take off and land on the left tank, doing acro in
while feeding from the right. Also, I'm a slow builder and only building
one wing at a time. So, I started with the left wing, currently in the jig,
build parts for both wings simultaneously, finish one wing, then the
ailerons and flaps, and then jig and finish the right wing. Sounds like a
plan to me. I hope it works. This way I get the positive reinforcement of
completing something every so often. So I am learning how to build the
left tank with the normal set up and wait for the right wing tank to do my
"experimentation". Good Luck, with what ever you decide.
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 10:09 AM
Subject: RV-List: Which wing for the flop tube?
>
>If I were to put a flop tube in just one tank, which one should it be? Does
>it make a difference?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 Page at:
>http://tabshred.com/moe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stubby ELT Antennas |
>
>
> I heard by way of the 'grapevine' that an RVer that is an electronics
> expert is successfully using a 'stubby' antenna on his ELT.
>
Von,
Stubby antennas (Rubber Duckies) are in my opion a compromise. Same as
most antennas that are used over a wide bandwidth. ie: A rubber duck
antenna for the 2 Meter Ham band 144-148 mhz. is likely designed to
resonate at the mid point of the band, namely 146. mhz. Your aircraft
antenna is operated (transmit) from 118 to 136 mhz and is probably most
efficient at about 127 mhz. Most aircraft antennas are 1/4 wavelengths (the
distance between two wavefronts having identical phase at any given
instance). Note that antenna length is more critical on transmit than
receive. During the past 10 yrs. or so most modern radios (transmitters)
with modern technology are now broad banded. That is compensating
circuitry that has been built in to allow you to transmit on the entire
band they are designed for.
Your ELT transmitter is not tunable. It is designed to operate on only one
frequency. It does not require these compensating circuits. Therefore it
is easy to design an antenna to operate (proper length) on that frequency.
Stubby antennas will work, you will get a signal out, but I guarantee you
it will not be as strong nor possibly as long. Power transistors get hot
and quit prematurately when operated with higher standing wave ratios (SWR)
. I don't want to start another can of worms ( like vertical vs horizontal
polarization) here so will quit while I hope I am ahead. This subject can
get quite complex. Check your local library for the " A.R.R.L. Antenna
Handbook ". My opinions for what they are worth. Ham radio operator
(Advanced certificate) for 32 years. Flames accepted.
Ken Hoshowski ( with standard blowing in the breeze ELT antenna )
RV6 C-FKEH First flight Sept 8/93
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Lateral movement of Stick |
<< I am trying to
get a handle on the angle of deflection needed in the stick to reach full
aileron deflection. Would someone with a wings and aileron attached bird be
kind enough to measure the angle that the stick is deflected left and right
from 90 degrees straight up ie no deflection, for me. >>
Dan-
I did it today, just for you. The sticks in my 6A displace left and right by
33 degrees from vertical (66 degrees total stop-to-stop).
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
>
>I tried to mount my -8 tanks today and they didn't fit!!!
>
>Seems the bead of pro-seal on the rear baffle plate flange is
preventing
>the tank from sliding straight back onto the spar. As it travels the
last
>1/2" back it slides inboard and none of the holes lne up. I have
trimmed
>the bead of sealant from the inboard 12 inches of the rear baffle and
the
>outboard rib and I swear I have clearance but the holes are still 1/16"
>off. Has anyone else had this problem?
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>no leaks but, the tanks don't do any good if they don't fit!!
>Fuselage on order
Scott,
Whoa..easy there buddy! We'll get them on there...I promise. So, take a
deep breath, get a beer (if you haven't already!) and relax. My tanks
also were reluctant to slide into place. I found that ANY amount of
sealant buildup on the outboard rib/skin seam would not allow the tank
skin to butt tight against the leading edge skin. The splice plate would
not allow any appreciable sealant bead in this area.
So, I cleaned off any protruding blobs of sealant with a lacquer thinner
soaked rag (took some vigorous rubbing, but worked OK. I think I was a
bit "light" on hardener on this batch of sealant) and dressed away some
material from the splice plate. It fit! Oh, I also had to clean off some
sealant from the baffle flanges, but it was very minor. I had heard
horror stories of the baffle/sealant trauma and was diligent in cleaning
off any excess sealant during assembly.
Firstly cleanup your sealant before filing anything, take it slow and
easy, and the tanks WILL fit. After all, Santa's watching and he's an
aviator too.
Hang in there!
Brian Denk
Rigging elevator controls.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McLaughlin" <johnmc49(at)ecity.net> |
I am six months post Lasik performed by the Tobin Eye institute in Des
Moines. I think my surgery helped pay for several hours of flight time for
Dr.Tobin's King Air 200. As a pilot, I chose this particular doctor because
he understood the concerns about flying and refractive surgery. Also, the
other doctor in the office performing Lasik is a former USAF flight surgeon.
Anyway, with Lasik, there is not much reason to consider the more crude RK
or even PRK surgery. I started with 20/800 with severe astigmatism. I
currently have 20/20 in the right and 20/25 in the left with some minor
astimatism in the left. The astimatic treatment is still in the study phase
and I am receiving questionaires each few months about the results.
With my severe correction (-11/-1.75) I was able to return to driving after
24 hours and got the ok to return to vfr flight after three weeks. After
two months, I returned to IFR and did an approach to 200' my first time out.
Piece of cake.
I have noticed a slight dimming at night and run the cockpit lights a little
brighter than I used to. There is also a slight, but not distracting, star
effect when landing at night. This was expected and has reduced over time.
One caution about Lasik is that while you can obtain all classes of medicals
after refractive surgery, the major airlines and military (including
national guard) have yet to embrace the procedure. Lasik may disqualify you
from any kind of military service, not just aviation.
There is an abundance of Lasik information on the web, and www.tobineye.com
has a description of the surgery with several images.
I read everything I could find on Lasik, including the scientific journal
articles, before getting the courage up to have it done. I don't regret it
at all.
J.McLaughlin
DSM IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
>Whoa..easy there buddy! We'll get them on there...I promise. So, take a
deep breath, get a beer (if you haven't already!)<
Brian,
Been there, done that. Actually, I', relieved just to know somebody elser
has had this problem. The layer of proseal between the ribs and baffle is
as thin as I could get it, just about translucent. I did not know that
sealand on the baffle flange was going to create a problem or I wouldn't
have put any on. The whole time we were sealing, we kept saying that
sealant between ribs and skin,beads on all the rib flanges, edges and
rivets was overkill but we still used less than two cans for my -8 wings
and Tony's -6.
I'll be out of town for a couple days, the beer will really start flowing
when both sets of tanks are on.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
fuselage on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rear seat instrument panel |
Bill,
I haven't yet got that far, I was thinking ahead. I actually have
no idea if there is any room for any of this. I would like to
be able to put something simple for the passenger, but maybe
this is not possible?
Are you building a QB or a std kit?
Tim
>
>Tim,
>
>I'd be real interested in what you have in mind to mount an altimeter
etc.
>I am just installing the seats and I don't see where there is room. I
am
>planning on a small clock(battery operated) and handheld GPS on a mount
>coming off the weldment attachment plate but don't really see any room
for
>"real" instruments. Any other builders have any ideas???
>
>Bill Pagan
>-8A struggling with the rear seat for some reason
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
I avoided the problem by clecoeing my tank to the spar immediately after
finishing the tank. I used a saran wrap barrier to keep the proseal
from sticking the tank to the spar. The excess proseal was molded
exactly to the spar and, after curing, the tank also fit the spar much
neater than wooden clamps, IMHO.
PatK - RV-6A
Scott A. Jordan wrote:
>
> I tried to mount my -8 tanks today and they didn't fit!!!
>
> Seems the bead of pro-seal on the rear baffle plate flange is preventing
> the tank from sliding straight back onto the spar. As it travels the last
> 1/2" back it slides inboard and none of the holes lne up. I have trimmed
> the bead of sealant from the inboard 12 inches of the rear baffle and the
> outboard rib and I swear I have clearance but the holes are still 1/16"
> off. Has anyone else had this problem?
>
> Scott A. Jordan
> 80331
> no leaks but, the tanks don't do any good if they don't fit!!
> Fuselage on order
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Actually, I really just want to avoid having to bend the 810, 814
and the forward spar.
Tim
>From owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Fri Dec 11 21:19:02 1998
> by matronics.com (8.8.8/Matronics-1.2) id VAA09100
>From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord
>Message-ID: <19981122.075217.12446.1.SMcDaniels(at)juno.com>
>References: <199812111501.HAA26573@law-f65.hotmail.com>
>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-10,12,15,17-18,20-25
>Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 00:17:46 EST
>Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>>
>>Would it be possible to modify my rv8 h.s. to be constant chord?
>>I see the RV9 does this so I wouldn't think it to be a major
>>design change. Anyone know what effect doing this could have on
>>the airframe?
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>
>It will cause you to take a lot longer building the airplane (kind of
>like scratch building except to a smaller degree).
>It will cause you much aggravation (you have obviously not yet learned
>rule # 1 of home built airplanes) "Change 1 thing, change 10 more
things
>because of it".
>It would most likely do absolutely nothing to improve the flight
>qualities of the airplane.
>
>Having said the above I guess I also would be inclined to ask "why
would
>you want to?"
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
I'll just throw my $0.02 in for good measure: I have been keeping both
sides of the vinyl on during deburring and dimpling, and I have had no
problems getting the rivets to set nicely, and it keeps everything
protected as long as possible. Also, I use a plain-ol' hammer on my Avery
C-frame since I just couldn't see spending the money on a hammer filled
with lead shot. As long as I wear ear protection, and I always do, it
works just fine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Guess you all know that Santa is reguired to have a
annual check ride with the FAA.
During the one this year Santa and the FAA Rep
discussed and figured out weight and balance situations
as Santa carries a large load.
They discussed performance data and take off and landing
figures, varying density altitudes ect. All seemed in order
for the impending Xmas eve flight!
At this point the FAA rep decided it was time for the check
ride. Santa loaded up and got in the sled while the FAA rep
went to his truck to get something. The Rep returned to the
sled with a shotgun. While the rep was boarding the sled, Santa
asked what the shot gun was for? The FAA rep replied that although
he was not supposed to reveal the contents of the check ride, Santa
could expect a partial In Flight Shut Down!!!!
Stew RV4 Co.
This was passed around at a Xmas party
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | No access to rivets |
While closing my V.S. I could not get the two rivets at the leading
edge of the V.S. tip rib. I used CS-4-4 pop rivets here. Are
they OK?
Can someone describe the differences between all the pop rivets
in the kit? cs-4-4, mk-319, etc?
Regards
Time
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
Yes, I do the same. I find the rivets sit a little better because
the dimple is made with the plastic on. It is a tad thicker,
so the dimple is a little better.
I even rivet with the plastic on...:-) did this once during a late
night session. I couldn't drill out all the rivets (I did about
30 before I realized) so I had to redo my rudder. So, remember
to remove the plastic for riveting!
>
>I'll just throw my $0.02 in for good measure: I have been keeping both
>sides of the vinyl on during deburring and dimpling, and I have had no
>problems getting the rivets to set nicely, and it keeps everything
>protected as long as possible. Also, I use a plain-ol' hammer on my
Avery
>C-frame since I just couldn't see spending the money on a hammer filled
>with lead shot. As long as I wear ear protection, and I always do, it
>works just fine.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | angle stiffners and 810, 814 |
Out of curiousity, I was wondering...
Would you purchase a package with all the emp stiffners cut, polished,
and pilot drilled and the 810 and 814 completed and pilot drilled?
If you supplied the material from your kit, what would you pay for
this labor?
Regards,
Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
Hello fellow RV builders. Does anyone have any sample empty weights
for an RV8? I know this varies, but any ballpark figures for a
plans built 8 or 8A with an O360?
I'm a big guy, about 260 lbs, hope I can fly the 8 and still be in the
C.G.?
Regards,
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Engine selection |
What are you fellow 8 builders thinking for an engine? I think I
want to go the O360 route. Wanted an IO360 with C/S prop, but
the more I think about it, maybe a O360 with a FP prop would be
better for me.
Anyone know what is involved in injecting an O360? Mostly interested
in price, additional weight and complexity of the task. I'm not
experienced with this. I would prefer a fuel injected engine.
Regards,
Tim
---------------------------------------------------------
Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
| \-/ |
...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Crank Case Breather Vent (twin Cessna problems) |
Several weeks ago the RV list had a discussion of the need (or lack
thereof) for a
crankcase breather vent. Here's some info from www.avweb.com on this
topic. In short, the FAA is recommending 1" by .25" vents on twin
Cessnas.
SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS
INFORMATION BULLETIN
U.S. Department of Transportation
Federal Aviation Administration
AIRCRAFT CERTIFICATION SERVICE
800 INDEPENDENCE AVENUE, S.W.
WASHINGTON DC 20591
No. ACE9905
November 17, 1998
Published by: FAA, AFS610, P.O. Box 26460 Oklahoma City,OK 73125
This is issued for informational purposes only and any recommendation
for corrective action is not mandatory.
Introduction:
The purpose of this Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) is
to advise registered owners of certain Cessna twin engine models of the
need to determine if there is adequate alternate crankcase breather
provisions.
This SAIB is being sent to registered owners of: Cessna 300 and 400
Series Model airplanes except for the 303, 336 and 337 series airplanes.
Background:
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has received service
difficulty reports concerning oil loss on certain Cessna twin engine
airplanes. This oil loss was due to the forward crankcase oil seal being
dislodged by abnormally high crankcase breather pressure. The abnormally
high crankcase breather pressure was caused by icing of the crankcase
breather vents. These airplanes either did not have, or had inadequate
alternate crankcase venting provisions which are intended to ventilate
the crankcase in the case of the icing of the primary vent. This
condition may have occurred due to inadequacies in the original design
or the unintentional deletion of the alternate venting provisions by
field repair and/or modification. The original venting provisions were
in many cases the installation of a hose section in the breather line
that had a elongated hole in it.
Even though Cessna has released service information concerning this
problem, the FAA has not concurred with the Cessna provisions as
alleviating the condition.
The FAA has not mandated this modification but is strongly recommending
that owners/operators of the affected airplanes examine the crankcase
venting provisions installed on their airplanes for the existence of
adequate alternate venting provisions, which should be a slit or hole
(at least approximately one inch by .25 inches) in the breather line
within a minimum of six inches inside the cowling.
If these provisions do not exist, is it recommended that alternate
crankcase venting provisions be incorporated per the below figure.
(figure not included in AvWeb page).
tim lewis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
>
>
>Actually, I really just want to avoid having to bend the 810, 814
>and the forward spar.
>
>Tim
Don't worry too much about this. Look at the Orndorf video, and read some
of the websites available for tips. It's really not too involved. Also, a
replacement HS-814 is pretty cheap. I refuse to explain how I know that ;-)
IIRC, Moe Colomtino, Sam Buchanan, and some RV-8 builder in New Zealand
(whose name escapes me right now) had helpful tips on this part,
James
Just skinned one side of the horiz. stab.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Engine selection |
Tim,
You may want to rethink the fixed pitch prop. I would love to save the
$$ by going with the FP, but after flying the RV-8 and talking to a
number of users I have decided to go with a CS. The primary reason for
this decision is the tighter pattern offered by the CS prop, rather than
a flatter approach with the FP prop. It's my understanding that the 8 is
not the best slipping A/C and the CS prop can provide a great deal of
braking action on final, allowing a tighter pattern.
Good Luck,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A - finishing Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | charles(at)onramp.net (charles young) |
What is the best method to seal the 6 inch plate (which holds the fuel
sender) to the fuel tank? Is a cork gasket sufficient? Or Permatex?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
I did the 6A nose gear strut check (per Van's AD) yesterday with a dye
penetrant kit which was borrowed from Vans. All is good after about 50
hours of flying. I also got to polish the troubled area which Bill told
me increases the service life of the part by about 40%.
All told, the job is fairly easy. With the cowling already off, the
whole job, including the 1/2 hour of allowing the penetrant to penerate
took about 2 hours.
I didn't expect that there would be a problem with so few hours, but now
that I know, it one less thing to worry about.
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
http://www.rvbookstore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
A good way to remove Proseal from tank exterior: use a blue ScotchBrite
2-inch Roloc disk in a die grinder. The ScotchBrite aggressively removes
the Proseal but merely gently polishes the underlying aluminum substrate.
Much safer to you and airplane than lacquer thinner!
Dennis Persyk 6A canopy
Hampshire, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net>
Date: Monday, December 14, 1998 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank mounting
>
>I avoided the problem by clecoeing my tank to the spar immediately after
>finishing the tank. I used a saran wrap barrier to keep the proseal
>from sticking the tank to the spar. The excess proseal was molded
>exactly to the spar and, after curing, the tank also fit the spar much
>neater than wooden clamps, IMHO.
>
>PatK - RV-6A
>
>Scott A. Jordan wrote:
>>
>> I tried to mount my -8 tanks today and they didn't fit!!!
>>
>> Seems the bead of pro-seal on the rear baffle plate flange is preventing
>> the tank from sliding straight back onto the spar. As it travels the
last
>> 1/2" back it slides inboard and none of the holes lne up. I have trimmed
>> the bead of sealant from the inboard 12 inches of the rear baffle and the
>> outboard rib and I swear I have clearance but the holes are still 1/16"
>> off. Has anyone else had this problem?
>>
>> Scott A. Jordan
>> 80331
>> no leaks but, the tanks don't do any good if they don't fit!!
>> Fuselage on order
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
In a message dated 12/11/98 4:25:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, halk(at)sybase.com
writes:
<< In short, Lycoming wins on weight, project completion time and
economics. This engine better be a good one or Lycoming is sure to get a lot
of
flack and bad press! >>
I agree with the first 2 but I don't know about price.
Speaking from the perspective of one of the "alternate engine persuasion", I
must agree with the posts that talk about all the reasons for NOT doing an
auto engine conversion. It is a LOT of extra work on an airplane that already
is a lot of work. It is not going to have the exact flying qualities of the
standard RV, although it's not going to be a 152 either.
But for me, the reason to do it is to personalize MY airplane from the 1800 or
so other RV's flying around out there, and because I CAN, according to the
FAR's. Let's face it, there are a lot of RV's, and the reasons are many, which
we all know on this list.
I respect all the opinions of people who don't want to do it for one reason or
another, but they must also respect my reasons for doing it.
It IS less expensive than a Lycoming no matter what anyone says. But if you
are to be successful in doing it, it must not be done for strictly economic
reasons.
...Climbing down off of my soapbox now...
Regards, Merle
(the worlds first RV-51, or is that P-4?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Sewell" <rvflyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
When cutting away the flange on the 810 (or maybe it is the 814),
what do you use to get it "flat" with the web? I used a band saw
but still have about 1/16 to 1/8 of the flange. I tried using my
power sander, but it got a little too close and sanded away part
of the 810 web - I am now worried about structural problems because
I have been told this is a very important part. I wish Vans
supplied the flanges already cut. The drilling and measurement
I can do.
Regards
Tim
>>
>>Actually, I really just want to avoid having to bend the 810, 814
>>and the forward spar.
>>
>>Tim
>
>Don't worry too much about this. Look at the Orndorf video, and read
some
>of the websites available for tips. It's really not too involved.
Also, a
>replacement HS-814 is pretty cheap. I refuse to explain how I know
that ;-)
>
>IIRC, Moe Colomtino, Sam Buchanan, and some RV-8 builder in New Zealand
>(whose name escapes me right now) had helpful tips on this part,
>
>James
>
>Just skinned one side of the horiz. stab.
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarge(at)ioinc.tucson.az.us> |
| Subject: | aeroelectric.com web page is down? |
I haven't been able to reach Bob's Web page last night or today. Is anyone
aware of a problem? Did it move?
--
Tom Sargent, Synergy Microsystems,520-690-1709, sarge(at)synergymicro.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealing |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Charles;
Most of us around here are just sealing this plate and screws on with
Pro-Seal. Some have left the cork-gasket on (using sealant on both sides
of it)
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com, others have just sealed the plate to the tank metal
itself. Tom at Vans says either is fine.
writes:
>
>What is the best method to seal the 6 inch plate (which holds the fuel
>sender) to the fuel tank? Is a cork gasket sufficient? Or Permatex?
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Scott;
You say you used 2 cans of Pro-Seal for two airplanes. This seems like an
awful lot to me, assuming 1 can per airplane. In checking my can after
doing my 8 tanks, which I did last winter, I still have 1/4 of a can
left. This is after using Pro-Seal for all sorts of other glue jobs. My
wife even uses it around the house. (Great stuff!) I would estimate 1/2
to 3/4 of a can to do a set of tanks, using the guidelines in the manual,
and mixing up only enough at a time that you can use it all.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>
>>Whoa..easy there buddy! We'll get them on there...I promise. So, take
>a
>deep breath, get a beer (if you haven't already!)<
>
>Brian,
>
>Been there, done that. Actually, I', relieved just to know somebody
>elser
>has had this problem. The layer of proseal between the ribs and
>baffle is
>as thin as I could get it, just about translucent. I did not know
>that
>sealand on the baffle flange was going to create a problem or I
>wouldn't
>have put any on. The whole time we were sealing, we kept saying that
>sealant between ribs and skin,beads on all the rib flanges, edges and
>rivets was overkill but we still used less than two cans for my -8
>wings
>and Tony's -6.
>
>I'll be out of town for a couple days, the beer will really start
>flowing
>when both sets of tanks are on.
>
>Scott A. Jordan
>80331
>fuselage on order
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Tim,
Use a file and then a ScotchBrite wheel to polish it.
Regards,
Bob
RV8# 423
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Sewell [mailto:rvflyer(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord
When cutting away the flange on the 810 (or maybe it is the 814),
what do you use to get it "flat" with the web? I used a band saw
but still have about 1/16 to 1/8 of the flange. I tried using my
power sander, but it got a little too close and sanded away part
of the 810 web - I am now worried about structural problems because
I have been told this is a very important part. I wish Vans
supplied the flanges already cut. The drilling and measurement
I can do.
Regards
Tim
>>
>>Actually, I really just want to avoid having to bend the 810, 814
>>and the forward spar.
>>
>>Tim
>
>Don't worry too much about this. Look at the Orndorf video, and read
some
>of the websites available for tips. It's really not too involved.
Also, a
>replacement HS-814 is pretty cheap. I refuse to explain how I know
that ;-)
>
>IIRC, Moe Colomtino, Sam Buchanan, and some RV-8 builder in New Zealand
>(whose name escapes me right now) had helpful tips on this part,
>
>James
>
>Just skinned one side of the horiz. stab.
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Kuebler" <skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Tim,
I used a bandsaw to cut off the bulk of the flange, that got it pretty close (1/32"
?). The rest of the material I removed with a hand file. There is no reason
it has to be perfectly flat, but the flatter it is:
1) It will be easier to bend.
2) It will bend straighter (important).
3) Less material will have to be cut out of the rib to clear it.
As for the structural integrity of the piece, it is a very important part and I
would talk to Van's about that.
And be glad Van's was nice enough to fabricate the other one for you (the one with
the 'ears')
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
Wings Skeleton
>>> "Tim Sewell" 12/14/98 10:47AM >>>
When cutting away the flange on the 810 (or maybe it is the 814),
what do you use to get it "flat" with the web? I used a band saw
but still have about 1/16 to 1/8 of the flange. I tried using my
power sander, but it got a little too close and sanded away part
of the 810 web - I am now worried about structural problems because I have been
told this is a very important part.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
I plan to use Fuel-Lube. I have no first-hand experience with it, but
others on the List recommended it. I used to use Permatex on my motorcycle
engine cases. I thought it was great stuff.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
What is the best method to seal the 6 inch plate (which
holds the fuel
sender) to the fuel tank? Is a cork gasket sufficient? Or
Permatex?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
For that job I bought the most valuable time-saving tool I've purchased so
far -- a bench grinder. The course wheel that came with the grinder cuts
away the aluminum fast enough (although it clogs the wheel easily) and is a
small enough spinning surface that I was able to keep from grinding the
web. It made cutting down the 814 piece very easy. On the other side I
mounted my Scotchbrite wheel, which makes deburring edges much easier. I
wouldn't worry too much about taking a little material away from the web as
long as there are no sharp edges where a crack could start.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Spider cracks around canopy hole |
Well, I followed all the suggestions of five years of the RV-List and
installed my 6A tip up canopy with no cracks. I am using screws all around.
I took the back window off to finish off the last few holes and noticed
three small, 1/8 " hairline, spider cracks around one of the holes. Now
what? I searched the archives (200+ messages on cranked canopies) and all
were addressing big cracks. There was one from Scott Gesele back in 1995
which asked this same question but there were no responses.
So what to do? If I sand them out I am afraid I will end up with a hole
bigger than the head of the #6 screw. I could drill it out to a #8 screw.
The archives mention using Methyl Chloride or IPS Corporation's
Weld-on 3. Could I just put some of this in the hairline cracks? Do I need
to stop drill these even when they are so small?
Thanks,
Ross Mickey N9PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Hormann <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
I have the same setup, with a scotchbrite wheel on one side. The
perfect companion to that is a combination disk sander/ 1" belt sander.
With these two tool and a die grinder, I can't imagine what you wouldn't
be able to do.
Doug Hormann
RV-6 empennage
Peter Christensen wrote:
>
>
> For that job I bought the most valuable time-saving tool I've purchased so
> far -- a bench grinder. The course wheel that came with the grinder cuts
> away the aluminum fast enough (although it clogs the wheel easily) and is a
> small enough spinning surface that I was able to keep from grinding the
> web. It made cutting down the 814 piece very easy. On the other side I
> mounted my Scotchbrite wheel, which makes deburring edges much easier. I
> wouldn't worry too much about taking a little material away from the web as
> long as there are no sharp edges where a crack could start.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aeroelectric.com web page is down? |
>
>I haven't been able to reach Bob's Web page last night or today. Is anyone
>aware of a problem? Did it move?
Nope . . . our ISP went TU about 8:00 p.m. last night . . .they're
back up now.
Bob . . .
AeroElectric Connection
////
(o o)
==========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: aeroelectric.com web page is down? |
Just tried it, and it is up at this time. The URL is:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
tom sargent wrote:
>
>
> I haven't been able to reach Bob's Web page last night or today. Is anyone
> aware of a problem? Did it move?
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, Synergy Microsystems,520-690-1709, sarge(at)synergymicro.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ray Murphy Jr." <murphy(at)mail.coos.or.us> |
I too had LASIK eye surgery a year ago and have gone form 20/600 to 20/40 in my
left eye with a mild astigmatic aberation and 20/25 in my right eye. At age 50
I'm not going to get hired by an airline anyway. By the way, I'm currently on
acitve duty with the Coast Guard and had to sign a waiver saying that I couldn't
get a disability retirement if something went wrong. I had mine done at the
Medical eye institute in Medford, OR.
Ray Murphy
North Bend, OR
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
VON L ALEXANDER wrote:
> You say you used 2 cans of Pro-Seal for two airplanes. This seems like an
> awful lot to me, assuming 1 can per airplane. In checking my can after
> doing my 8 tanks, which I did last winter, I still have 1/4 of a can
> left. This is after using Pro-Seal for all sorts of other glue jobs. My
> wife even uses it around the house. (Great stuff!) I would estimate 1/2
> to 3/4 of a can to do a set of tanks, using the guidelines in the manual,
> and mixing up only enough at a time that you can use it all.
I threw away virtually no sealant. I used an entire can in doing one set
of RV-6 tanks (dunno how they compare in size to RV-8 tanks), and would
have used a little more if I'd had it available.
I was a little over-generous early on, but always felt that it's better
to wipe away excess than to try to add more later. I also was very
generous in sealing the nutplates to the inboard rib and sealing round
the inboard and outboard rib noses.
I'd do most of it the same way. I felt this generosity of sealant was
good idea, since all three RV-4s being built nearby (ie within 100
miles) have had leak problems -- one only found (a huge puddle of Avgas
on the hangar floor) after painting and taxi testing.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | EI Customer Service |
If you plan to install and use an EGT and/or CHT it only makes sense you use
something of a quality you can trust. To use something less only jeopardizes
you ship and you life. Once you start looking at the competition you'll see
EI is the best buy around (especially if you get it through Van's).
MikeW RV-4, AIO-360 final fitting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Garrett [mailto:bgarrett2(at)fast.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 1998 4:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: EI Customer Service
Listers-
Stories like the one below and Scott M.'s earlier regarding EI are really
great
endorsements for the company. And if you are the one who messes up, you
have to
love it. But I think there are few if any free lunches. It's probably one
of
the reasons I won't be buying EI gauges. These guys sound like they have
too
much time and money on their hands for my bank account. I find it
frustrating
enough to pay for my own mistakes let alone those of others too.
I don't expect Van to adopt a similar policy any time soon. (No need to
worry
about getting that spar together correcly anymore - mess it up, send it
back,
get a nice new preassembled Phlogiston one! Mess up enough stuff and you
might
get a QB in return! OK, so I'm embellishing a bit!) But I sure do like the
prices of his kits! And Van does (at least in my experience) make good on
the
few mistakes that are his responsibility. Nor does he rip me off (ever buy
a
part for a Sears product?) when I mess up and need to replace something.
Now
that's responsible customer service (IMO).
Bill Garrett - RV-6a (wings have been ignored for a while)
> I would like to pass on a word about this company. I ordered the EI fuel
> gauge from Van's and two weeks after I got it, my dog got a hold of it,
and
> chewed up the wiring harness. . . .
> I sent it back to them, and it came back to me a week later, postage paid,
> and an invoice with $0.00 charges on it. This included the harness on the
> unit, and the other harness that plugs into the instrument harness. It
was
> also fully tested and re-calibrated. Along with a funny note typed into
the
> invoice, they included two dog biscuits for my dogs!
>
> Great customer service..I would recommend them to anyone!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Hormann <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Tim,
Please don't be worried about bending the 810 and 814, it is truly a
piece of cake. If you're worried about getting the angles right,
remember that when you slip your skins on you know you've gotten it
right if the front spar flanges match up with the pre-punched holes.
You can make minor adjustments as needed.
Regards,
Doug Hormann
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
> Actually, I really just want to avoid having to bend the 810, 814
> and the forward spar.
>
> Tim
>
> >>Would it be possible to modify my rv8 h.s. to be constant chord?
> >>I see the RV9 does this so I wouldn't think it to be a major
> >>design change. Anyone know what effect doing this could have on
> >>the airframe?
> >>Tim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Plastic Coating |
Regarding dimpling with the plastic coating on, it would seem to me that one would
be likely to hammer chips right into the dimple. My advice: Take a yardstick
and a soldering iron and remove the plastic just around the rivet lines before
deburring. It doesn't take very long. And, if you put down some of that
nice packing paper that Van's sent a bunch of onto your bench you won't damage
the exposed skin.
Brian Eckstein
6A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Hormann <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Tim,
Prior to purchasing a disk/belt sander that would make this much
easier, I did both of my angles with a file and sandpaper. Takes a bit
more time, but they came out looking real nice.
Regards,
Doug Hormann
Tim Sewell wrote:
>
>
> When cutting away the flange on the 810 (or maybe it is the 814),
> what do you use to get it "flat" with the web? I used a band saw
> but still have about 1/16 to 1/8 of the flange. I tried using my
> power sander, but it got a little too close and sanded away part
> of the 810 web - I am now worried about structural problems because
> I have been told this is a very important part. I wish Vans
> supplied the flanges already cut. The drilling and measurement
> I can do.
>
> Regards
>
> Tim
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lateral movement of Stick |
GV,
Very much appreciated. I will go home tonight and see how that relates to
my bird.
>
writes:
>
><< I am trying to
> get a handle on the angle of deflection needed in the stick to reach full
> aileron deflection. Would someone with a wings and aileron attached bird be
> kind enough to measure the angle that the stick is deflected left and right
> from 90 degrees straight up ie no deflection, for me. >>
>
>Dan-
>
>I did it today, just for you. The sticks in my 6A displace left and right by
>33 degrees from vertical (66 degrees total stop-to-stop).
>
>-GV
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
>doing my 8 tanks, which I did last winter, I still have 1/4 of a can
>left. This is after using Pro-Seal for all sorts of other glue jobs. My
>wife even uses it around the house. (Great stuff!) I would estimate 1/2
>to 3/4 of a can to do a set of tanks, using the guidelines in the manual,
>and mixing up only enough at a time that you can use it all.
OK Von, let the rest of us in on the secret or Proseal. I don't doubt that the
tanks only need 1/2 to 3/4 can, but how do you keep from smearing that extra
quart on yourself and the tools, table, clothes, family pet, etc :-)
Yesterday was my first day of Proseal, and I spent 11 hours working with it.
Nothing prepares you for the smell, and consistency of this crap, but I agree
that you do get somewhat used to it eventually. Get lots of gloves- I used a
whole box of 50 yesterday. Also, the idea of precutting paper towels into small
pieces is excellent. Thanks to whoever wrote that.
Well, back to the goop....
Russell (I may need 3 quarts) Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-80587 (tanks-YUCK)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
>>
>> When cutting away the flange on the 810 (or maybe it is the 814),
>> what do you use to get it "flat" with the web? I used a band saw
>> but still have about 1/16 to 1/8 of the flange. I tried using my
>> power sander, but it got a little too close and sanded away part
>> of the 810 web - I am now worried about structural problems because
>> I have been told this is a very important part. I wish Vans
>> supplied the flanges already cut. The drilling and measurement
>> I can do.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Tim
>>
Tim--I apologize in advance if this is too simplistic. I suspect you may be
like me in that your education missed some parts that are important in RV
construction. I didn't have "shop" in high school. I've got 23+ years of
highly technical education, but most of it is relatively useless in the
hangar/shop.
I've had to carefully learn how to correctly use a hand file and grinder.
It took me about 4 hours to ruin my first HS 814. The second one took me
about 90 minutes and looks great (to me anyway)
I think most builders have been using these tools so long that it doesn't
occur to them that they don't come with instructions.
If you cut flanges with a bandsaw,make sure you cut outside your lines,
leaving a little extra. Then clamp the part securely in a vise at a
comfortable height. Use something to protect the aluminum from the vise--I
used heavy cotton rags I get from work. Get a large, medium grit file (I
got a selection from Sears) put one hand on the handle, one on the tip, and
draw it slowly across the work at about a 45% angle, pulling the handle
towards the work (the file is designed to cut in one direction only). Only
light pressure is needed. The steel file will shape the aluminum very
quickly. I used small "needle files" (also from Sears) to touch up rough
areas and round all the corners. Scotchbrite pads put a satin finish on
everything without too much trouble. I didn't find my powersander or
scotchbrite wheel too useful, probably because I haven't developed enough
skill in using them yet
This is much harder is you don't clamp the work in a vise. Also, if you cut
right on your trim line, and then get too enthusiastic with the file you
won't have edge distance for your last rivet. Or that's what I've heard,
anyway ;-)
I am certain that 99% of the list knows more about this than I do, so please
fill in or correct if appropriate.
James
RV-8 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
Scott:
The other thing to check, besides Pro-Seal, is to be sure that your main
spar is not sagging in the middle. Any deflection that is different from
when you drilled the holes will give you the problem you describe.
Sometimes just releveling will correct the problem.
George
#80006
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott A. Jordan <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
>I tried to mount my -8 tanks today and they didn't fit!!!
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
James (and others),
I posted this several months ago but will mention again for those who are
new to the list. At the recommendation of a fellow lister (thanks Bob
Skinner) I went in search of a small handheld belt sander for that last
trim to the cut line. Harbor Freight has a couple of small pneumatic belt
sanders that are real good for this. Belt on mine is 3/4 X 21 I think. They
have an even smaller one that would probably also work well. It makes quick
work of most of the stuff you would typically use a coarse file for and its
small enough to be easy to handle with just one hand. Hardly ever use the
file anymore. Take a look at these belt sanders. They are a great time
saver. Wish I'd gotten it sooner.
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>If you cut flanges with a bandsaw,make sure you cut outside your lines,
>leaving a little extra. Then clamp the part securely in a vise at a
>comfortable height. Use something to protect the aluminum from the vise--I
>used heavy cotton rags I get from work. Get a large, medium grit file (I
>got a selection from Sears) put one hand on the handle, one on the tip, and
>draw it slowly across the work at about a 45% angle, pulling the handle
>towards the work (the file is designed to cut in one direction only).
>James
>RV-8 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealing |
>
> What is the best method to seal the 6 inch plate (which holds the fuel
> sender) to the fuel tank? Is a cork gasket sufficient? Or Permatex?
ProSeal and Allen head screws. I have seen cork gaskets leak on 3
differnet RV's. (I have not seen any cork gaskets not leak.) I am
sure that someone will disagree with that statement.
EAA Tech Counslor
FAA A & P
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasik info summary |
1st, thanks to all who responded.
I stumbled around the FAA web site & found a phone #, so I decided to
waste a call (bound to take a month to get a reply, right?).
I called 405-954-4821 and with only 1 layer of computer routing (press
"5") got Patsy, a real live person. She says to get form 8500-7 from
your AME, take it to your surgeon, & have him fill it out & sign it when
you are good to go flying again. Take it back to your AME who will
forward it to the FAA. The FAA will update your records, but you can fly
as soon as your 8500-7 is signed.
This is verbal info from Patsy, not in writing. I did call back & make
her repeat it,though, because I wasn't clear after the 1st conversation
when it would be legal to fly again.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Horiz stabilizer / constant chord |
Tim,
When cutting away the flange on parts, place your cut line on the web at the
exact point the radius of the bend starts. At the point where the cut will end
drill a 3/16 inch hole perpendicular to the tangent line that is midway through
the bends arc. In other words drill 45 degrees from the web or flange. (this is
a crack stop hole) Now using your bandsaw cut down the line on the web to the
hole. Now cut down the flange to the hole. Dress the cuts by draw filing, or
sanding and you are done.
Just another note: The round files used in sharpening chain saws are a must. I
have found the two most useful sizes to be 3/16 and 1/4 inch.
> Tim Sewell wrote:
> >
> >
> > When cutting away the flange on the 810 (or maybe it is the 814),
> > what do you use to get it "flat" with the web? I used a band saw
> > but still have about 1/16 to 1/8 of the flange. I tried using my
> > power sander, but it got a little too close and sanded away part
> > of the 810 web - I am now worried about structural problems because
> > I have been told this is a very important part. I wish Vans
> > supplied the flanges already cut. The drilling and measurement
> > I can do.
> >
> > Regards
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ron calhoun <roncal(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Wanted rv4 wheels |
Anyone have any Cleveland 500x5 wheels for an rv4 they want to sell? My
friend just ruined his pushing it around the hangar without them being fully
installed.
If so contact Gary at 409 687-4556. Thanks
Ron Calhoun
Palestine, Tx
RV-4 Installing engine, instruments
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Jon Johansen's RV Seat |
Does anyone know where I can see Jon Johansen's RV seat and maybe a little
info on it. Appreciate the help.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
> In a message dated 12/11/98 4:25:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
halk(at)sybase.com
> writes:
>
> << In short, Lycoming wins on weight, project completion time and
> economics. This engine better be a good one or Lycoming is sure to
get a lot
> of
> flack and bad press! >>
>
> I agree with the first 2 but I don't know about price.
>
The Lycoming is cheaper. I paid $2,600 for my O-320 160 HP and I have
a friend that paid $1,500 for his O-290 that he uses in his RV-4. The
O-290 RV-4 cruised at 140 KTAS when I last flew in formation with him.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Does anyone know where I can see Jon Johansen's RV seat and maybe a little
info on it. Appreciate the help.
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Spider cracks around canopy hole |
>I took the back window off to finish off the last few holes and noticed
>three small, 1/8 " hairline, spider cracks around one of the holes. Now
>what? I searched the archives (200+ messages on cranked canopies) and all
>were addressing big cracks. There was one from Scott Gesele back in 1995
>which asked this same question but there were no responses.
>
>So what to do? If I sand them out I am afraid I will end up with a hole
>bigger than the head of the #6 screw. I could drill it out to a #8 screw.
>The archives mention using Methyl Chloride or IPS Corporation's
>Weld-on 3. Could I just put some of this in the hairline cracks? Do I need
>to stop drill these even when they are so small?
>Ross Mickey N9PT
Ross,
I would recommend stop drilling the cracks (littlest drill you've got, say
#60) and then wicking some methyl chloride (I think that is the correct
solvent) into the crack.
Leo Davies
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Engine selection |
Tim,
The difference is the weight in pounds and dollars
# = 30
$ = 10k
Bill
>
>
>What are you fellow 8 builders thinking for an engine? I think I
>want to go the O360 route. Wanted an IO360 with C/S prop, but
>the more I think about it, maybe a O360 with a FP prop would be
>better for me.
>
>Anyone know what is involved in injecting an O360? Mostly interested
>in price, additional weight and complexity of the task. I'm not
>experienced with this. I would prefer a fuel injected engine.
>
>Regards,
>
>Tim
>
>---------------------------------------------------------
>Hey Baby.... _|___/-\_| RV-8
> | \-/ |
>
> ...come sit on my lap while I pull some G's!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Robbins" <robm(at)am2.com> |
| Subject: | Mode C decoder module |
Several listers have requested more info. I finally got around to updating
my web site with information about the mode C decoder module. It's at
http://www.am2.com/nonlinear/index.htm
Mitch Robbins
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "greg robl" <gregrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Engines help |
I think you will like what you see. I went up and took a look and we
ended up buying three engines for our project's. Bart is good person to
deal with.
>From owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com Fri Dec 11 05:52:45 1998
> by matronics.com (8.8.8/Matronics-1.2) id RAA09851
>From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Aero Engines help
>Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 19:26:39 -0600
>Message-ID: <01be24a5$4d186240$1f15e0d1@dougweil>
>X-Priority: 3
>Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>Precedence: bulk
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>Listers:
>
>With all the talk about Bart's engines, I have done considerable
research on
>his shop. Personally I am about 90% certain I will purchase an engine
from
>him. As a mater of fact, we are planning a trip to Kamloops right
after
>Christmas to 1) let the kid ski their hearts out and fling themselves
off
>the local peaks and 2) visit with Bart, tour his shop, and probably
give him
>a deposit. This could be a very expensive ski trip!
>
>I'll report my findings when I return.
>
>Doug Weiler,
>Hudson, WI
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealing |
<< I have not seen any cork gaskets not leak. I am
sure that someone will disagree with that statement. >>
Let me be the first.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
A couple of days ago I mentioned that I thought I had a 9 row Setrab oil
cooler.
I counted them today and there are 13 rows. I don't know where I got the
9 row idea.
At any rate, I am pleased with the temps I am getting.
Ron Vandervort, 6.46 hrs on 0-360 w C/S, RV-6Q
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allan.Gibson(at)fluordaniel.com |
The major problem with cork (or any other) gasket is making the flange stiff
enough so it can't sag between bolts when they are tightened up. I you don't
believe me check out an ANSI 150# pipe flange compared to the thickness of class
80 pipe. The pipe wall is around 3/16" thick and the flange is 3/4" thick for
the same pressure rating. Rolling a rim around the flange should help prevent
leaks by controlling the flexure.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Sealing
Date: 15-12-98 00:36
<< I have not seen any cork gaskets not leak. I am
sure that someone will disagree with that statement. >>
Let me be the first.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johansen's RV Seat |
>
>Does anyone know where I can see Jon Johansen's RV seat and maybe a little
>info on it. Appreciate the help.
Hi Scott,
Try Moe's website http://tapshred.com/moe he used to have a picture of the
seat fitted to Jon J's RV4. Michael Lott arranged an order about six months
ago, for user info in USA contact lottmc(at)datasync.com If all else fails,
contact me, as I have one fitted. BTW, Jon's seat can be fitted to RV8,
modifications have now been approved by Vans.
Cheers,
Ken (two RV4's in hanger, both with Jon's seats) Glover
Newcastle Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johnny Tracy <jtracy2(at)mdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealing - Reply |
You can create a form in place seal (fips seal). Apply a release agent
to the cover plate so the sealant will not stick to it. Apply your sealant
like you normally would to the other(CLEAN) surface. Make sure the panel
perimeter is masked off with masking tape. Apply the release agent to
the fasteners also. Install panel only tight enough to create an even
thin form in place seal. Clean the perimeter of the cover plate so no
sealant is visible. Let dry. Remove cover and you have the perfect gasket
that is formed to that area. Trick is getting the desired thickness.
Good luck
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Cleavland Tank Dimple Tank Dies |
Does anyone have a set of Cleavland Tank Dimple Dies, or dies for #6 and #8
screws that they are through with and would like to sell? Please contact me
off list. Thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Seats - Current Vendors |
I've gotten the brochures from two upholstery makers and the prices sem
awfully high. I want good qaulity and looks, but for less than $700.
Anyone out there have a good and cheaper connection, and already have
patterns from your seats?
Thaks in Advance,
Boris
Finishing Fuse RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealing |
>
> What is the best method to seal the 6 inch plate (which holds the fuel
> sender) to the fuel tank? Is a cork gasket sufficient? Or Permatex?
I used aviation permatex on the cork gasket and it worked fine. It did not
work on
the screw heads however. I had a few that leaked on both sides, and had to
remove my tanks to correct the situation. Fuel lube seems to have solved
the
problem.
Scott Sawby N341SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Engine selection |
Tim,
You can look around and find a used Bendix injection
system or use a new Air flow Performance System.
Is it worth it?? Always a good question. I am using
the APS system and am glad I spent the money
initially. It is a great system and installation is easy.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Jon Johansen's RV Seat |
Sorry guys, I took the picture down because I ran out of space at my old
address. I now have the space at my new location, so I'll see if I can find the
picture and put it up again. If I have it, it should be up by tonight. BTW, I
have no deatails on price or ordering, I only hosted the picture for Jon. Does
anyone know if you can wear a parachute with the seat?
Moe
www.tabshred.com/moe
Ken Glover wrote:
>
> >
> >Does anyone know where I can see Jon Johansen's RV seat and maybe a little
> >info on it. Appreciate the help.
> Hi Scott,
> Try Moe's website http://tapshred.com/moe he used to have a picture of the
> seat fitted to Jon J's RV4. Michael Lott arranged an order about six months
> ago, for user info in USA contact lottmc(at)datasync.com If all else fails,
> contact me, as I have one fitted. BTW, Jon's seat can be fitted to RV8,
> modifications have now been approved by Vans.
> Cheers,
> Ken (two RV4's in hanger, both with Jon's seats) Glover
> Newcastle Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealing |
Cork gaskets plus permatex on both sides and under the screw heads (Aviation
Form-A-Gasket) will NOT suffice in this application. My tank, sealed in this
way, started leaking after 5 months / 30 hrs in service, and it is a MESS!
Due to the slow nature of the leak (only when the tank is above half-full) and
my tendency to procrastinate, I have yet to do the repair job, but I'm not
looking forward to it.
I plan to use pro-Seal, I think. Still haven't decided that, either!
-Bill B
RV-6A 50 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi folks:
I'm STILL in the pre-empennage project prep phase. A few more questions
have come to mind:
1) For those of you who have worn a parachute in a (an?) RV-4 or -8,
what type seems to work best in terms of fit and comfort: seat pack, back
pack, other?
2) Has anyone used parachutes with Jon Johanson's seat? Comments?
3) While Christmas shopping for my wife in the tool department at Sears
(Thought I'd get her a band saw for the kitchen. If she doesn't like it,
I'll just stick in the garage and get her something else), I happened upon
some belt/disc sanders. Any recommendations on the 1" belt vs. the 4"
belt?
Thanks, and Happy Holidays!
Tim
Pittsburgh
Future RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
In a message dated 12/14/98 9:12:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
<< The Lycoming is cheaper. >>
YOUR Lycoming is cheaper. There aren't many (any?) O-320's around for that
kind of money. Also, when you have to buy parts the auto conversion wins hands
down.
How long ago and how many hours on the engine ?
<>
I'll take 150 at that price and retire a millionaire. That's the record as far
as I know.
I'm comparing my race prepared completely remanufactured Chevy engine to the
same thing in a Lycoming. I could have bought a Chevy with 60,000 miles on it
for $600 if you want to compare apples to apples.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
>My new RV-8 necessitates mounting the battery mid-ships instead of near
>the firewall.What are the pros & cons of making the ground connection
>directly to the airframe at the battery location instead of running a # 2
>cable fore ward to the firewall ( and then to the engine case).
Give each battery its own ground point on the heaviest material
around. If thinner than .062", I'd add an alluminum doubler
of .062" with an area of at least 4 sq inches and dozen
rivets in it.
> My Fluke
>reads 0.0 ohms from the battery location to the firewall.
It would . . . but when you're dragging a couple hundred
amps out of the battery, .010 ohms is too much.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternater Conversion |
>> I took my internal regulator Denso alternator (Came with my Aero Sport
engine)
>> to several auto electric/alternater-starter shops today to bypass the
>> regulator. Cheapest quote I got was $125!!! Does anyone know someplace
I can
>> send it to get this done for a reasonable price. My ultimate goal is
>> overvoltage protection which from the archives is not possible with
internal
>> regulator. Thanks
I've published diagrams and parts list for adding o.v. protection
to an alternator with built in regulators.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Testing Alternator Diodes |
>Saw your remark about testing for a shorted diode in an
>alternator and wonder how you would do it.
When an alternator's diodes are intact, the "ripple"
voltage riding on the alternator's output is only about
5% peak-to-peak of the 14 volt nominal or something on
the order of 700 millivolts. When a diode opens or
shorts, the ripple voltage raises markedly. Over the
years, several products have been offered as "alternator
failure" lights that monitor ripple voltage on the system
and illuminate a warning lamp if ripple voltage becomes
markedly higher.
If you own a digital mulimeter, you can set the device
to read AC volts and connect it to the bus of your airplane.
Turn on all the loads you can at cruise and note the AC
volts value at some time when you're reasonably certain that
all is well with your alternator. At some time in the future,
you want to confirm the health of your altenator, repeat
the load/rpm condition. A bad diode will more than triple
the AC ripple voltage reading.
My personal favorite for alternator health testing involves
a portable load bank of fat power resistors or a combination
of light bulbs and the necessary switches to add or remove
load in usefully small steps. I've built a simple loadbank
using halogen headlamp bulbs in an approx 5" rectangular
tube made of plywood. With a 12VDC muffin fan in each end,
there was plenty of air movement to keep things cool. Eight
H4 (100W) halogen bulbs and an H3 (55W) lamp would allow me
to create a load of over 60 amps in steps of about 4 amps.
Suitable wires are used to attach this fixture right to the
back of the alternator leaving the normal aircraft wiring
in place. Oh yeah, I mounted a DC voltmeter and an ammeter
on my little plywood box to watch what happend when I
added load. The voltmeter had a switch that would let me
go back and forth between looking at the alternator output
voltage and alternator field voltage. Make the wires long
enough that you don't have to stand right behind the prop
during engine runup.
Run the engine up and MINIMIZE aircraft systems loads.
Increase the load in smallest steps noting when the voltage
falls below 13.0 volts. The voltage should not sag this
low until you've added a load very close to the alternator's
rated output. If you have a bad diode, you generally can't
get much more than 1/2 the alternator's rated output.
This simple piece of test equipment is better than an
alternator test stand examination of your hardware.
You can do a complete diagnostic of the alternator system
BEFORE putting a wrench to the airplane. Any mechanic who
doesn't probe the field voltage of an alternator while
sujecting it to some considered loads and RPMs does
not understand how the thing works. He/she may make an
educated guess as to the cause of your problem but for
my money, I wouldn't let them get out the toolbox until
they explain exactly what's wrong and why they think so.
Far too many airplanes leave the shop with parts they
didn't need. The equipment I've described above combined
with techniques describe here and in the Appendix to
our book (http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z.pdf)
can make the task easier and effective.
>Also would a decent dvm be ok or do you need an "iron vane" type meter?
I prefer analog meters . . . but they don't need to be
iron vane. Analog meters can offer a sense of dynamics
you cannot see well with digital meters. Our ammeter/
voltmeter combo would be a good candidate for building
diagnostic instrumentation right into a home made
loadbank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance sender isolator material |
I just bought a 1/2" square 1' long of nylon from my plastic shop for
$1.50 - they use it to make fuel tanks so should work OK.
Larry
6A - Wings is process
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Seats - Current Vendors |
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Boris;
Some of the RVers around here(including myself) have had their seats made
locally, usually around $300-$350, but the results never seem to be
anything to write home about. On the RV-8, I went with DJ Lauritsen at
Cleveland Tools and the results are outstanding. They do Vans upholstery,
and they have been doing this long enough to do it right and make it look
good. I supplied my own leather ($100.00 from B&B) for mine. She will do
seats complete including fabric for I believe $590.00, and it is worth
the money.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>I've gotten the brochures from two upholstery makers and the prices
>sem
>awfully high. I want good qaulity and looks, but for less than $700.
>
>Anyone out there have a good and cheaper connection, and already have
>patterns from your seats?
>
>Thaks in Advance,
>
>Boris
>Finishing Fuse RV-4
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert B. Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | Jon Johansen's RV Seat |
F.Y.I. For those of you with -4's & -8's, have you seen Vetterman's seat
that he put in the front of his -4. I believe it is out of the Army Scout
(bell) helicopter, very light weight and looks like a very clean/nice fit in
the -4's. I saw his seat installation in his -4 and one other -4 at the
Abilene EAA fly-in in October. I'd put one in my -3, but it doesn't fit as
well as the 2 holers!
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
Socorro, NM
Rob Reece
Rocket Propulsion Test Facility
c/o EMRTC
NM Tech Mail Station
Socorro, NM 87801
(505) 835-5716
(505) 835-5299 fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>1) For those of you who have worn a parachute in a (an?) RV-4 or -8,
>what type seems to work best in terms of fit and comfort: seat pack, back
>pack, other?
>
I have used a Long Softie in mine with no cushions. It really eats up my
legroom. (6'1") A seat pack puts me thru the canopy.
I was looking at chutes at OSH and one of the vendors told me he had made a
chute for an RV-4 that replaced the seat bottom. The space under the seat
is wasted, unless you store charts there like I do. Anyway he said that the
container he built just fit in that area and nothing was behind the pilot to
eat up leg room. Of course I was looking for a cheap used one.... No such
luck. Plus you could not use this chute in other airplanes. I decided to
wait.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)crosscountybank.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing Alternator Diodes |
REMOVE FROM MAILING LIST
<<< "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" 12/ 3 1:28p >>>
>Saw your remark about testing for a shorted diode in an
>alternator and wonder how you would do it.
When an alternator's diodes are intact, the "ripple"
voltage riding on the alternator's output is only about
5% peak-to-peak of the 14 volt nominal or something on
the order of 700 millivolts. When a diode opens or
shorts, the ripple voltage raises markedly. Over the
years, several products have been offered as "alternator
failure" lights that monitor ripple voltage on the system
and illuminate a warning lamp if ripple voltage becomes
markedly higher.
If you own a digital mulimeter, you can set the device
to read AC volts and connect it to the bus of your airplane.
Turn on all the loads you can at cruise and note the AC
volts value at some time when you're reasonably certain that
all is well with your alternator. At some time in the future,
you want to confirm the health of your altenator, repeat
the load/rpm condition. A bad diode will more than triple
the AC ripple voltage reading.
My personal favorite for alternator health testing involves
a portable load bank of fat power resistors or a combination
of light bulbs and the necessary switches to add or remove
load in usefully small steps. I've built a simple loadbank
using halogen headlamp bulbs in an approx 5" rectangular
tube made of plywood. With a 12VDC muffin fan in each end,
there was plenty of air movement to keep things cool. Eight
H4 (100W) halogen bulbs and an H3 (55W) lamp would allow me
to create a load of over 60 amps in steps of about 4 amps.
Suitable wires are used to attach this fixture right to the
back of the alternator leaving the normal aircraft wiring
in place. Oh yeah, I mounted a DC voltmeter and an ammeter
on my little plywood box to watch what happend when I
added load. The voltmeter had a switch that would let me
go back and forth between looking at the alternator output
voltage and alternator field voltage. Make the wires long
enough that you don't have to stand right behind the prop
during engine runup.
Run the engine up and MINIMIZE aircraft systems loads.
Increase the load in smallest steps noting when the voltage
falls below 13.0 volts. The voltage should not sag this
low until you've added a load very close to the alternator's
rated output. If you have a bad diode, you generally can't
get much more than 1/2 the alternator's rated output.
This simple piece of test equipment is better than an
alternator test stand examination of your hardware.
You can do a complete diagnostic of the alternator system
BEFORE putting a wrench to the airplane. Any mechanic who
doesn't probe the field voltage of an alternator while
sujecting it to some considered loads and RPMs does
not understand how the thing works. He/she may make an
educated guess as to the cause of your problem but for
my money, I wouldn't let them get out the toolbox until
they explain exactly what's wrong and why they think so.
Far too many airplanes leave the shop with parts they
didn't need. The equipment I've described above combined
with techniques describe here and in the Appendix to
our book (http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z.pdf)
can make the task easier and effective.
>Also would a decent dvm be ok or do you need an "iron vane" type meter?
I prefer analog meters . . . but they don't need to be
iron vane. Analog meters can offer a sense of dynamics
you cannot see well with digital meters. Our ammeter/
voltmeter combo would be a good candidate for building
diagnostic instrumentation right into a home made
loadbank.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)crosscountybank.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Engine selection |
REMOVE FROM MAILING LIST
<<< 12/15 7:36a >>>
Tim,
You can look around and find a used Bendix injection
system or use a new Air flow Performance System.
Is it worth it?? Always a good question. I am using
the APS system and am glad I spent the money
initially. It is a great system and installation is easy.
Stew RV4 Co.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)crosscountybank.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternater Conversion |
REMOVE FROM MAILING LIST
<<< "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" 12/ 4 9:49p >>>
>> I took my internal regulator Denso alternator (Came with my Aero Sport
engine)
>> to several auto electric/alternater-starter shops today to bypass the
>> regulator. Cheapest quote I got was $125!!! Does anyone know someplace
I can
>> send it to get this done for a reasonable price. My ultimate goal is
>> overvoltage protection which from the archives is not possible with
internal
>> regulator. Thanks
I've published diagrams and parts list for adding o.v. protection
to an alternator with built in regulators.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Lane" <jlane(at)crosscountybank.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternater Conversion |
REMOVE FROM MAILING LIST
<<< "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" 12/ 4 9:49p >>>
>> I took my internal regulator Denso alternator (Came with my Aero Sport
engine)
>> to several auto electric/alternater-starter shops today to bypass the
>> regulator. Cheapest quote I got was $125!!! Does anyone know someplace
I can
>> send it to get this done for a reasonable price. My ultimate goal is
>> overvoltage protection which from the archives is not possible with
internal
>> regulator. Thanks
I've published diagrams and parts list for adding o.v. protection
to an alternator with built in regulators.
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/bleadov.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Johnny Tracy <jtracy2(at)mdc.com> |
ANY BODY NEED AN AD SEARCH? ENGINES/ACCESSORIES/AIRFRAMES.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Tim Bronson wrote:
>
>
> 3) While Christmas shopping for my wife in the tool department at Sears
> (Thought I'd get her a band saw for the kitchen. If she doesn't like it,
> I'll just stick in the garage and get her something else), I happened upon
> some belt/disc sanders. Any recommendations on the 1" belt vs. the 4"
> belt?
>
Tim,
I bought my wife a band saw for xmas a couple of years ago. Last year my wife
bought me a 3" Sears belt/disk sander and I wondered why I had been so cheap
and bought the Delta 1" when I started. I use the 3" a lot, but the 1" still
comes in handy. If I were to buy only one, I would get the 3"
Gary Zilik
Pine Junction, CO
6A s/n 22993 cowling/fab
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
Robert,
Personally I would run a #4 awg ground wire to the engine
and mount. Grounding too alum if not done properly can cause
corrosion and a high resistance connection for hi current
applications.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Polished spinner |
Hi all,
I guess you could legally chrome plate an aluminum spinner on a homebuilt but
not on a certificated aircraft. At one annual on the Deb, they wanted to sell
me a new spinner as mine was illegal. I had it "un-plated" at a chrome plating
shop for $60. He also polished it. He said he does polishing for NASA Ames
here.
The chrome on aluminum eventually crazes.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Tim,
I tried a chair pack parachute in my RV4 and it put me
too far forward, I now have a seat pack that works fine if
I omit the bottom seat cushion and seat riser.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Oil cooler sizing |
Hi,
Eustace wrote:
> Recently tried to help a friend with a I0360 in a RV 4 with a rear mounted
> cooler and was unable to get the oil temp below 210-220 in cruise with a
> outside air temp of 80 degrees. Any suggestions on this would be
> appreciated.
There is a very interesting article on liquid cooling and radiators at:
http://www.inforamp.net/~raac/CoolingSystems/CoolingSystemsIndex.HTML
Since Lycomings are partially liquid cooled maybe it will apply to that part!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCruiser1(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 12/15/98 9:46:23 AM Pacific Standard Time,
IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com writes:
<< ubj: RV-List: Questions
Date: 12/15/98 9:46:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com (Tim Bronson)
Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: RV-list(at)matronics.com (RV-List)
Tim,
I just purchased the Sears 21528 $199.99 Two in wide belt sander with eight
inch disk. This unit runs faster, 3450 RPM or 3100 ft/minute (great for
aluminum) The unit is also small enough to set on a table top. Sears had a
hardware sale so discounts dropped the price below retail.
Regards,
Gary
(empennage started, no prints shipped)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: refractive eye surgery |
Jerry Sringer wrote:
> This is off topic but it is something that could be of interest
> to RVers. Can't speak about LASIK but I had RK in both eyes in
> 1994 and did not have any problems
and
>I love it and am glad that I had it done my experience has been positive.
Do all be aware that it is surgery and it does sometimes not work out so there
is at least a remote chance that it will be the end of your flying.
At least be sure that the surgeon and equipment meet all the standards etc.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
Gary A. Sobek wrote:
>
>
> The Lycoming is cheaper.....
> a friend paid $1,500 for his O-290 that he uses in his RV-4.
Does the O-290 use the standard engine mounts furnished in the finishing
kit?
Is this a viable engine alternative for -6 budget challenged builders?
thanks
martin shorman
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
In a message dated 12/14/98 9:16:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rv6flier(at)yahoo.com writes:
<<
The Lycoming is cheaper. I paid $2,600 for my O-320 160 HP and I have
a friend that paid $1,500 for his O-290 that he uses in his RV-4. The
O-290 RV-4 cruised at 140 KTAS when I last flew in formation with him.
>>
Excuse me gentlemen. I don't mean to sound slow, but In the RV catalog the
O-320 costs $18,300. That's a difference of $15,700. Is there a method of
obtaining these engines that I am unfamiliar with? Presumably the $2,600
O-320 was used, but that cost differential makes it sound unsafe. What am I
missing here?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>
>
>>1) For those of you who have worn a parachute in a (an?) RV-4 or -8,
>>what type seems to work best in terms of fit and comfort: seat pack, back
>>pack, other?
I initially purchased two back-pack type 'chutes from National at OSH this
year. They didn't work at all (stupid me for not doing my homework).
Fortunately they allowed me to trade them straight across for seat-pack
'chutes. For the RV-4/8 you may need to make a new seat cushion bottom
platform to position you at the correct height. The folk at National
suggested that I make one out of scrap dense foam.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Jon J's custom seats |
OK everyone, as promised I have put up the picture and info on Jon's seats.
Special thanks for Charlie Kuss for sending me the picture and info, as I
had lost it. My only problem is that I have no contact info, so right now if
you want to buy a seat, I have no idea who you would get it from. If anyone
is in contact with Jon, please let him know that I need a phone number or
email address.
The picture and info can be seen on my web page, at the link listed below.
Moe Colontonio
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Listers,
Have been following with interest the thread about using"rubber ducky"
antennas for the ELT. Would not a rubber ducky from a hand held aircraft
band tranceiver be a better choice than one cut for the 2 meter ham band
or some other band?
Regards, Bill N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
> Personally I would run a #4 awg ground wire to the engine
>and mount. Grounding too alum if not done properly can cause
>corrosion and a high resistance connection for hi current
>applications.
LOTS of airplanes use airframe structure for grounding
many devices including batteries. While it's important
to do the job right, it's not difficult. If the
battery is close to the firewall, I advise my builders
to ground the battery to a firewall ground stud that
is attached via braided strap to crankcase on other side.
Engine mounts should be used to hold engines on airplanes,
not for carrying electical power to and from the crankcase.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
>I was looking at chutes at OSH and one of the vendors told me he had
>made a
>chute for an RV-4 that replaced the seat bottom. The space under the
>seat
>is wasted, unless you store charts there like I do. Anyway he said
>that the
>container he built just fit in that area and nothing was behind the
>pilot to
>eat up leg room.
This may have been one that a friend of mine had made a few years ago.
They can make custom container packs in just about any shape you would
want. His was shaped like a wedge that made a seat bottom that exactly
fit the space between the seat back and the wing spar bulkhead. This was
definitely not the most inexpensive way to have a shute in your RV
though.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Todd <motodd(at)pol.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions:Parachutes for tall pilots |
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> I have used a Long Softie in mine with no cushions. It really eats up my
> legroom. (6'1") A seat pack puts me thru the canopy.
>
> I was looking at chutes at OSH and one of the vendors told me he had made a
> chute for an RV-4 that replaced the seat bottom. The space under the seat
> is wasted, unless you store charts there like I do. Anyway he said that the
> container he built just fit in that area and nothing was behind the pilot to
> eat up leg room. Of course I was looking for a cheap used one.... No such
> luck. Plus you could not use this chute in other airplanes. I decided to
> wait.
I talked to the Para-Phernalia folks at Oshkosh 95 about customizing one
of their seatpacks for my RV-4 for better headroom (I'm 6' 1/2"). They
modified their standard model so that the seat pack was narrow enough
(front to back) to fit between the seat back pan and the spar box. They
had to widen the pack about an inch to allow the same packing volume.
The seat cushion attached to the pack extends over the top of the spar
box for extra comfort.
I'm very pleased with the results. Very nice workmanship and quality.
I don't recall the exact price but the mods ate up my 10% show discount,
so it ended up being their normal retail price, which was expensive.
But, it fits great and allows sufficient headroom. For me, the piece of
mind was worth it.
I didn't see their number in the RV Yeller pages but GTE Yellow Pages
says
Para-Phernalia Inc
19124 59th Drive Northeast Building 4, Arlington, WA 98223
(360) 435-7220
(360) 435-7272 (fax)
I'm not sure what Doug has in mind when he says it can't be used in
other airplanes. Mine has.
Mark
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pbennett(at)zip.com.au |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Sealing |
>
> Cork gaskets plus permatex on both sides and under the screw heads
> (Aviation Form-A-Gasket) will NOT suffice in this application.
Bill,
When I did my tanks (before the dawn of time it seems) I checked out
the Permatex offerings. The Aviation Form-a-Gasket, from memory, was
specified for metal to metal joints. I used Form-a-Gasket No 2,
which is specified for use with gaskets, and leakproof to gasoline
and fuel oils, among other things. It was the Vans factory
recommended product.
However, my tanks haven't seen fuel yet.............
Peter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joe Drumm <jdrumm(at)dgs.dgsys.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Engine selection |
I too am thinking about going this route. I'm a long ways away from the
engine, but do you have an idea of what a system like this costs?
Thanks
Joe
On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 RVer273sb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Tim,
> You can look around and find a used Bendix injection
> system or use a new Air flow Performance System.
> Is it worth it?? Always a good question. I am using
> the APS system and am glad I spent the money
> initially. It is a great system and installation is easy.
> Stew RV4 Co.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Engine selection |
In a message dated 12/15/98 1:55:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, pagan(at)CBOSS.COM
writes:
<< Anyone know what is involved in injecting an O360? Mostly interested
>in price, additional weight and complexity of the task. I'm not
>experienced with this. I would prefer a fuel injected engine. >>
Contact Don Rivera at Airflow Performance. He makes a nice unit for them and
Sean Tucker uses that unit in the 1-800-COLLECT biplane. It's around $1200 if
my memory serves me right.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Jon Johansen's RV Seat |
>
> F.Y.I. For those of you with -4's & -8's, have you seen Vetterman's seat
> that he put in the front of his -4. I believe it is out of the Army Scout
> (bell) helicopter, very light weight and looks like a very clean/nice fit in
> the -4's. I saw his seat installation in his -4 and one other -4 at the
> Abilene EAA fly-in in October. I'd put one in my -3, but it doesn't fit as
> well as the 2 holers!
> Rob Reece
Rob,
If these seats are like the ones I am thinking of, they are very
light and comfortable. They have a tube frame around the outside and
fabric mesh for the seat bottom and back. Sort of like a little lawn
chair.
But, I doubt the mesh is stressed for 6g. I wouldn't use one without
confirming how many g they were designed for.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Seats - Current Vendors |
Our seats start at $345 for both seats for the RV4. Please email me or
call
817-439-3280 if you would like further information. If you know what colors
your are interested using, I can also send you fabric samples.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Deal Fair" <dealfair(at)bcni.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions:Parachutes |
Listers,
I believe a real important consideration in purchasing a parachute is "how
quickly it opens".
In early November at Zuehl Field (near San Antonio and Sequin) an Extra had
a fire in the cockpit and the pilot had to leave. The FAA early incident
report stated he bailed out at approximately 400 feet. Other eye-witnesses
put it closer to less than 300 feet! Whatever, it was darn low. I
understand the chute opened and he swung once "OR" twice and hit the
ground. His burns are fairly extensive but the landing injuries are minor.
Reported that the next question bystanders had after ascertaining the
pilot's condition was: "Who manufactured that chute????" Answer:
National Parachute.
I believe I'm going to strap my fat cockers in one of those.
Best regards,
Deal Fair
George West, Tx (RV-4)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Kuebler" <skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com> |
Hi all,
My question is about modifying the wing rib at station 73.5 to accommodate the
aileron bellcrank. Is it necessary to remove material from the two support angles
that overlap the third angle in order for them to lay flat against the rib?
In order to clear the .063 alum. angle you would have to remove half of the flange
thickness on the .0125 angle, and I can't think of an easy or clean way of
doing this with the tools I have.
Would it be all right to let them overlap without removing any material. There
would then be a gap between the support angle and the rib (1/16" max. tapering
down to 0") that could be filled with shims or pulled together with a rivet.
Thanks in advance,
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
RV-6 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
Gary Sobek, builder of one very nice RV6, wrote:
> The Lycoming is cheaper. I paid $2,600 for my O-320 160 HP and I have
> a friend that paid $1,500 for his O-290 that he uses in his RV-4.
Maybe what we should be quoting is not so much what one sells for now and then
but what a builder can expect to pay if they shop with some care.
I confess that considering the cost of overhaul of the O320 is within pennies of
that of the O360 and the latter has more power I really only considered the
O360. I'll put together a realistic price list soon.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>
>Would not a rubber ducky from a hand held aircraft
>band tranceiver be a better choice than one cut for the 2 meter ham band
>or some other band?
Yes, much.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Questions:Parachutes |
>
>Listers,
>
>I believe a real important consideration in purchasing a parachute is "how
>quickly it opens".
That is indeed the key. I believe that National quotes 3 seconds opening
time for their 'chutes. The altitude they spec is valid only if your
vertical velocity relative to the ground is zero, e.g. you are either
stopped or traveling horizontally, etc. Therefore if you can pull up even
a little before getting out, you can safely get out at a lower altitude.
Conversely, if your airplane has shed its wings and is traveling straight
down when you get out, don't expect to be able to get the chute open before
you hit if you are at 500'.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Jon Johansen's RV Seat |
I had new seat/cushions made by Oregon Aero for my RV-4. They fit really
well and are extremely comfortable. The only caveat applies to people my
size (6'2"); the Oregon Aero back cushion eats up too much of my leg room
so I have taken to flying with no back cushion at all.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | fuel line routing |
RVers,
We're about to install the fuel lines in the 6A. Any tips on routing in
the area of the main gear leg weldment area? On the six, the routing is
pretty straightforward and it's easy to keep the lines out of harms way. I
didn't see anything in the plans on routing on the 6A.
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Why I gave up on Chevy & bought a Lycoming |
Merle wrote:
> But for me, the reason to do it is to personalize MY airplane from the 1800 or
> so other RV's flying around out there, and because I CAN, according to the
> FAR's. Let's face it, there are a lot of RV's, and the reasons are many, which
> we all know on this list.
> I respect all the opinions of people who don't want to do it for one reason or
> another, but they must also respect my reasons for doing it.
That is indeed another good reason for adapting an auto engine to the RV.
I believe that someday we will all break the bonds that conventional aviation
manufacturers have on us. I have the greatest respect for those who are leading
the way. I had hoped to be among them and may yet with my next project!
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | bought a Lycoming another way |
I lucked out and bought an airplane for $3000. that was seriously damaged
on landing and more seriously damaged during salvaging. It had an O-320
with 189 hrs SMO. The prop never touched the ground. Run check & tested
good. Sold the airframe after removing what I wanted to use or sell for
$1200. Sold another $400.+ and had alt., airspeed, elect. T&B., vents,
switches, C/Bs & etc. to use.
Just another way toget in cheap.
The best of Holidays!
Denny, RV-6,
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank mounting |
Thanks to all who have helped and encouraged me with my tank problem:
Message text written by Brian Denk
>I also had to clean off some sealant from the baffle flanges, but it was
very minor. I had heard
horror stories of the baffle/sealant trauma and was diligent in cleaning
off any excess sealant during assembly.<
Guess I was out of town when these stories circulated. Back home now and
waiting for the shop to warm up so I can go out and start removing more
proseal.
Von Alexander:
>You say you used 2 cans of Pro-Seal for two airplanes. This seems like an
awful lot to me, assuming 1 can per airplane. In checking my can after
doing my 8 tanks, which I did last winter, I still have 1/4 of a can left.
This is after using Pro-Seal for all sorts of other glue jobs.<
The manual says that a set of wings can be done with one can but many
builders use more. I've heard of people using 1 1/2 cans. Tony Bingelis
stresses being generous with the sealant. We initially mixed small batches
which probably resulted in some waste. Now, after doing it, I relize much
of the sealant is overkill. Probably too much between the ribs and the
skin. If a very thin layer is enough for the baffle it is enough for the
skin. If (when) I build again I bet I would use about 3/4 of a can,
possibly a bit less.
George:
>The other thing to check, besides Pro-Seal, is to be sure that your main
spar is not sagging in the middle. <
The wing is completly riveted and the jig is down. I don't think, (hope)
the wing is capable of much flexing / distortion at this point.
Mark Stefensen:
>Right now mine are out side to side about 1/16th & I am planning on
trimming the doubler to be able to move the tank to the correct position.<
Mine are out side to side about 1/16" also. After I clean all the excess
pro seal off the real baffle and outer rib I expect it will fit without
trimming the doubler. As I push the tank back the last 1/2" or so it
slides inboard, this tells me that pro seal somewhere is interferring.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib 73.5 |
I didn't remove any material from the .125 angle that supports the bellcrank.
It overlaps the .063 angle only at the rear and the .125 angle is only
displaced from the rib a very minimum space after it is riveted. I hope I
understand and answered your question correctly. JFW skinning left wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | Tank Riveting - New Question (really!) |
Listers:
In 1995, there were postings about applying proseal, clecoing, letting
the proseal cure, and then riveting the tanks. (Grumman Procedure)
Is there anyone on the list who has done this, and if so, how did it go?
Thanks,
Boris Robinson
RV-4 Finishing Fuse (left tanks 'till last!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
>... I advise my builders
> to ground the battery to a firewall ground stud that
> is attached via braided strap to crankcase on other side.
I never could find a braided strap, so I just went with #2 wire.
Any reason not to do it this way? Yes it's stiffer but it
does take a "U" shaped path to the engine so I don't think
that will be a problem....
Randall Henderson, RV-6
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TOMMY E. WALKER" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
I am planning to store my O-360 in a hanging configuration, overhead up out
of the way. Question is, is there any reason an engine should not be stored
in this manner? (It's hanging by the lift hook on top of the engine).
Tommy
6-A in Ridgetop Tennessee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <mpilla(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine storage |
I was told to never rely on that lift hook staying in place for long;
i.e., the lift hook bolt hole can "rip out" of the crankcase halves (or
so I have been told). Better to store on an old tire (but, in the way),
or make a stand that holds the engine vertically.
I made a stand out of scrap wood per TonyB's description in one of his
books. The stand was on casters and it was easy to move the engine
around the shop, as needed.
Michael Pilla
"TOMMY E. WALKER" wrote:
>
>
> I am planning to store my O-360 in a hanging configuration, overhead up out
> of the way. Question is, is there any reason an engine should not be stored
> in this manner? (It's hanging by the lift hook on top of the engine).
>
> Tommy
> 6-A in Ridgetop Tennessee
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Why would anyone want to mount a rubber duckie on their aircraft, especially
if doing so would invalidate the TSO for their ELT?
I use the Ameri-King ELT (having lots of trouble with it operationally, but
that is another story) and the slender whip antenna that comes with it is all
stainless and advertized as "zero-drag." I'm sure that's an exageration, but
the drag can't be much - no loading coil like that chrome plated piece of junk
that comes with the ACK. Just eyeballing the antenna, there's just no way it
has more drag than a rubber duck, even a stubby model. And I'll bet it even
weighs less.
Rubber ducks work acceptably in most VHF/UHF applications, but they are
unquestionably less efficient radiators than a quarter wave whip, and with an
ELT you've only got milliwatt power to work with anyway, 50 percent of which
is wasted in carrier. Why shift the equation even less in your favor? Tell
me what I'm missing.
-Bill Boyd
no rubber ugly-sticks hangin' off my airplane...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 AIRFRAME FOR SALE |
FOR SALE: RV8 AIRFRAME $25,000
TAIL AND WINGS COMPLETE.
CONTROL SURFACES HAVE BEEN FITTED.
FUSELAGE IS BEYOND QUICKBUILD STAGE.
LANDING GEAR FITTED AND DRILLED AND LOWER FWD FLOOR INSTALLED.
TURTLE DECK IS INSTALLED, FLOORBOARDS, BAGGAGE COMPARTMENTS AND
SIDE PANELS ARE FITTED AND READY FOR FINAL INSTALLATION (ALL NUTPLATES
HAVE BEEN MOUNTED).
FORWARD TOP SKIN AND BAGGAGE DOOR HAVE BEEN FITTED AND DRILLED.
THIS FUSELAGE IS READY FOR COCKPIT PAINTAND INSTALLATION OF WIRING
AND PLUMBING.
THE ENTIRE AIRFRAME IS PRIMED ON THE INSIDE FOR MAXIMUM CORROSION
PROTECTION.
EXCEPTIONAL WORKMANSHIP BY EXPERIENCED AWARD WINNING BUILDER..
FINISH KIT IS INCLUDED (STILL IN CRATE). COWLING AND BATTERY LOCATION
ARE FOR A LYCOMING I0-360 (200 HP).
A LYCOMING I0-360 1590 HRS TTSN WITH MAGS, BENDIX INJECTION SYSTEM AND
GOVERNOR IS AVAILABLE TO BUYER OF AIRFRAME ONLY FOR $8,500 (OTHERWISE
I WILL MOUNT IT IN MY 1300HR RV6)
THE PROJECT IS LOCATED IN THE DALLAS, TX AREA.
RESPOND TO MARTIN SUTTER VIA E-MAIL hmsutter(at)flash.net OR CALL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits |
Harmon Rocket Fans!!!
Florida RV-Ation now offers Harmon Rocket II Fast Build Kits!! These kits fall
under the FAA 51% rule, and are very similar to the "fast build kits" offered
by Van's Aircraft. Workmanship is outstanding and the price is right!! This is
a 250 MPH, 3500 FPM climb airplane!! These kits come complete (builder is
responsible for purchasing only the tail seperately). Now is the time for you
to own one of the hottest kit planes on the market, the Harmon Rocket II.
If you or any of your fellow RV-Ators are interested in having a Harmon Rocket
II Fast-build kit, please call me at (561) 748-2429 or E-mail me at
FLARV8N(at)AOL.COM.
Thanks again for choosing Florida RV-Ation.
Scott Brown
President - Florida RV-Ation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
>
>Rubber ducks work acceptably in most VHF/UHF applications, but they are
>unquestionably less efficient radiators than a quarter wave whip, and with an
>ELT you've only got milliwatt power to work with anyway, 50 percent of which
>is wasted in carrier. Why shift the equation even less in your favor? Tell
>me what I'm missing.
Nothing. You got it right on the first post (although more than 50% of
your power is wasted with AM).
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine storage |
TOMMY E. WALKER wrote:
>
>
> I am planning to store my O-360 in a hanging configuration, overhead up out
> of the way. Question is, is there any reason an engine should not be stored
> in this manner? (It's hanging by the lift hook on top of the engine).
I'm sure others may disagree and tell you its fine, but I don't know how
well I'd sleep at night knowing that my $20,000 Lycoming was hanging
there by that little strap and a single 1/4" bolt. It may also provide
some unusual stresses to the engine case which could show up as small
leaks once you start to use it.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Riveting - New Question (really!) |
> Listers:
>
> In 1995, there were postings about applying proseal, clecoing, letting
> the proseal cure, and then riveting the tanks. (Grumman Procedure)
>
> Is there anyone on the list who has done this, and if so, how did it go?
>
> Thanks,
> Boris Robinson
>
Boris,
You read my mind! I was going to ask about the same subject tonight.
Please forward me any replies that go direct to you.
A local RV-6A builder did his tanks that way. He claimed that there
was a lot less mess, and that he had no leaks. He would do it again.
I'm considering using this procedure on my RV-8 tanks. I wonder
whether the clecos have enough holding power to pull the skin close
enough to the ribs, or whether I would end up with too thick a layer
of proseal between the ribs and the skin. Comments from those who
have done this before?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Bill Boyd,
The intent I believe is to put the rubber ducky inside the airplane
canopy where it will definitly be low drag.
Regards, Bill N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib 73.5 |
> Hi all,
> My question is about modifying the wing rib at station 73.5 to
accommodate the aileron bellcrank. Is it necessary to remove material from
the two support angles that overlap the third angle in order for them to
lay flat against the rib?
> In order to clear the .063 alum. angle you would have to remove half of
the flange thickness on the .0125 angle, and I can't think of an easy or
clean way of doing this with the tools I have.
I notched them with a carbide blade on a table saw. Just go slow, and then
clean them up with files.
Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel line routing |
> We're about to install the fuel lines in the 6A. Any tips on routing
in
> the area of the main gear leg weldment area? On the six, the routing is
> pretty straightforward and it's easy to keep the lines out of harms way.
I
> didn't see anything in the plans on routing on the 6A.
In my case, the line from the left tank, which is inverted capable (the
line exits the tank at the leading edge), comes straight through the
fuselage wall just forward of F602, drops down to a point where it can be
fastened with cushion clamps to the large 1/8 fore/aft angle, proceeds aft
until it makes a 45 degree turn to match the triangle of the gear mount,
catches one clamp on this triangular web, makes another 45 deg. turn about
an inch or so in front of the spar (the line is just above the floor
stiffeners). I built a bracket at this point to accept clamps and to
protect the line. Finally, another bend upward to the valve. The right
tank is the same, except that it comes through the wall between 602 and
604.
BTW, I'm using Airflow Performance's boost pump, and I mounted that on the
forward side of the spar, so the line from the boost pump to the firewall
also has to accommodate the gear mount. This line I ran through the
existing hole in the web in the gear mount, and will wrap it with some sort
of reinforced rubber tube to avoid the possibility of its chafing at this
point.
Hope this helps -
Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Riveting - New Question (really!) |
The concern is as you sumized. It is difficult to put Proseal on a surface
in a level fashion. Applying the Proseal and clecoes as a single process
helps provide as even a surface as a manual process of applying and clecoing
can yeild.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tank Riveting - New Question (really!)
> Listers:
>
> In 1995, there were postings about applying proseal, clecoing, letting
> the proseal cure, and then riveting the tanks. (Grumman Procedure)
>
> Is there anyone on the list who has done this, and if so, how did it go?
>
> Thanks,
> Boris Robinson
>
Boris,
You read my mind! I was going to ask about the same subject tonight.
Please forward me any replies that go direct to you.
A local RV-6A builder did his tanks that way. He claimed that there
was a lot less mess, and that he had no leaks. He would do it again.
I'm considering using this procedure on my RV-8 tanks. I wonder
whether the clecos have enough holding power to pull the skin close
enough to the ribs, or whether I would end up with too thick a layer
of proseal between the ribs and the skin. Comments from those who
have done this before?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib 73.5 |
Scott Kuebler wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
> My question is about modifying the wing rib at station 73.5 to accommodate the
aileron bellcrank. Is it necessary to remove material from the two support
angles that overlap the third angle in order for them to lay flat against the
rib?
> In order to clear the .063 alum. angle you would have to remove half of the flange
thickness on the .0125 angle, and I can't think of an easy or clean way
of doing this with the tools I have.
> Would it be all right to let them overlap without removing any material. There
would then be a gap between the support angle and the rib (1/16" max. tapering
down to 0") that could be filled with shims or pulled together with a rivet.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Scott Kuebler
> Buffalo, NY
> RV-6 Wings
>
Hi Scott,
You can go either way. If you don't remove any material it does leave a
little gap under the angle but that's ok. The slot cut in the rib to
accomodate the bellcrank allows the rib to have some give in it and it
pulls up tight to the angle where the W-425 attaches to the rib/angle.
I think most builders who remove material do so because it looks nicer.
It's inside the wing.....whose gonna see it???? But, I must confess I
removed some of the material with the scotch-brite wheel on my bench
grinder and looking back, it was time I could have spent doing something
else.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine storage |
>
> TOMMY E. WALKER wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I am planning to store my O-360 in a hanging configuration, overhead up
out
> > of the way. Question is, is there any reason an engine should not be
stored
> > in this manner? (It's hanging by the lift hook on top of the engine).
>
>
> I'm sure others may disagree and tell you its fine, but I don't know how
> well I'd sleep at night knowing that my $20,000 Lycoming was hanging
> there by that little strap and a single 1/4" bolt.
>
> Andy
>
> I totally agree with Andy.
While on this subject, I once saw a fellow who was holding up this RV with
this engine hook. Please if you have to raise your RV once the engine is
installed do it the following way. Get a couple of good strong straps and
wrap them around the top two ( one on each side of the engine ) engine
mount tubes, as close to the rubber mounts as possible.
I stored my engine ( all accessories removed ) on a couple of tire for 2
years in a warm basement. Worked fine.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
First flight sept. 8/93
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Riveting - New Question (really!) |
Boris wrote:
> > In 1995, there were postings about applying proseal, clecoing, letting
> > the proseal cure, and then riveting the tanks. (Grumman Procedure)
> >
> > Is there anyone on the list who has done this, and if so, how did it
go?
>
There are over 2000 RV's flying and 99.99 % of the tanks are sealed the
tradional way. I would be reluctant to try to be different. If it works
you will be a hero but if it doesn't you will have wasted a whole lot of
time and money. I think pro seal really gets a bad reputation. It's
really not as bad as we make it out to be. I think those of us who have
been through it are just trying to impress and scare the hell out of those
who haven't. Kind of like who got the biggest fish!!. Looking back on it
now some of my experiences with pro seal are kind of funny, but don't ask
my wife.
My vote would be to stick to the plans.
Regards
Ken ( my tanks don't leak ) Hoshowski
RV6 C-FKEH Salmon Arm B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits |
FLARV8N(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Harmon Rocket Fans!!!
>
> Florida RV-Ation now offers Harmon Rocket II Fast Build Kits!! These kits fall
> under the FAA 51% rule, and are very similar to the "fast build kits" offered
> by Van's Aircraft. Workmanship is outstanding and the price is right!! This is
> a 250 MPH, 3500 FPM climb airplane!! These kits come complete (builder is
> responsible for purchasing only the tail seperately). Now is the time for you
> to own one of the hottest kit planes on the market, the Harmon Rocket II.
>
> If you or any of your fellow RV-Ators are interested in having a Harmon Rocket
> II Fast-build kit, please call me at (561) 748-2429 or E-mail me at
> FLARV8N(at)AOL.COM.
>
> Thanks again for choosing Florida RV-Ation.
>
> Scott Brown
> President - Florida RV-Ation
>
So are you building the complete kit and NOT buying RV-4 kits from Vans?
Are you still using the RV-4 wings and fuselage?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits |
I spoke with Scott today, and it is not a Van's kit at all. He said it uses
a few Van's parts, but for the most part, it is all custom built parts. It
is it's own kit, and uses the Rocket II wings (different from the -4). The
onl y Van's supplied kit will be the tail, which you construct. Cost is
$28,000 and that includes the finish kit. I know I will have my eye on them
a few years down the road when the -6 is just not doing it for me anymore!
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits
>
>FLARV8N(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> Harmon Rocket Fans!!!
>>
>> Florida RV-Ation now offers Harmon Rocket II Fast Build Kits!! These kits
fall
>> under the FAA 51% rule, and are very similar to the "fast build kits"
offered
>> by Van's Aircraft. Workmanship is outstanding and the price is right!!
This is
>> a 250 MPH, 3500 FPM climb airplane!! These kits come complete (builder is
>> responsible for purchasing only the tail seperately). Now is the time for
you
>> to own one of the hottest kit planes on the market, the Harmon Rocket II.
>>
>> If you or any of your fellow RV-Ators are interested in having a Harmon
Rocket
>> II Fast-build kit, please call me at (561) 748-2429 or E-mail me at
>> FLARV8N(at)AOL.COM.
>>
>> Thanks again for choosing Florida RV-Ation.
>>
>> Scott Brown
>> President - Florida RV-Ation
>>
>So are you building the complete kit and NOT buying RV-4 kits from Vans?
>Are you still using the RV-4 wings and fuselage?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clay Smith <clayfly(at)iquest.net> |
Bill,
I've been following the rubber duckie thread with interest as I've thought a
stubby little ELT antenna might mount nicely on the turtle deck under the canopy
(in a location close to where most put their squat little GPS antenna). I'll have
to eyeball an RV-4 again to see if this is a viable idea. Any thoughts out there?
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X(reserved), tail feathers on fuselage
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Why would anyone want to mount a rubber duckie on their aircraft, especially
> if doing so would invalidate the TSO for their ELT?
>
> I use the Ameri-King ELT (having lots of trouble with it operationally, but
> that is another story) and the slender whip antenna that comes with it is all
> stainless and advertized as "zero-drag." I'm sure that's an exageration, but
> the drag can't be much - no loading coil like that chrome plated piece of junk
> that comes with the ACK. Just eyeballing the antenna, there's just no way it
> has more drag than a rubber duck, even a stubby model. And I'll bet it even
> weighs less.
>
> Rubber ducks work acceptably in most VHF/UHF applications, but they are
> unquestionably less efficient radiators than a quarter wave whip, and with an
> ELT you've only got milliwatt power to work with anyway, 50 percent of which
> is wasted in carrier. Why shift the equation even less in your favor? Tell
> me what I'm missing.
>
> -Bill Boyd
> no rubber ugly-sticks hangin' off my airplane...
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Riveting - New Question (really!) |
But, if you are not getting enough "EXPERIMENTAL" just building....keep on
experimentin' !!
IMHO!!
hal
> There are over 2000 RV's flying and 99.99 % of the tanks are sealed the
> tradional way.
(snip, snip)
> My vote would be to stick to the plans.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Rib 73.5 |
> My question is about modifying the wing rib at station 73.5 to
> accommodate the aileron bellcrank. Is it necessary to remove material from
> the two support angles that overlap the third angle in order for them to
> lay flat against the rib?
I shimmed. Wouldn't bother if I were doing it again.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Listers;
The following e-mail was recieved from Bill Benedict @Vans regarding the
antenna he uses for his ELT.
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
Von, I just bought a Radio Shack FM Automobile antenna and put a
connector
on it. The FM band is the same frequency range as the ELT (121.5 MHz).
The antenna I have has a swivel mount which allows the antenna to point
in
any direction. Prior to using it, I checked the radiation pattern and
VSWR and compared it with the normal ELT antenna and this antenna was
actually better in all ways.
Regards, Bill
>Hi Bill;
>Greg Robl at Independence says to contact you regarding the use of a
>'stubby' elt antenna you are using or know about. Can you please give me
>the model # and source (I heard Radio Shack) of this antenna? It would
>give me a greater selection of places to mount in my RV-8. Thanks.
>
>Von Alexander
>RV-8 N41VA
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
--------- End forwarded message ----------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n41va(at)Juno.com (VON L ALEXANDER) |
Bill;
What you are missing is that we are all talking about using the stubby
antenna INSIDE the cockpit, not on the outside of the airplane anywhere.
Since it is difficult to find a spot inside the cockpit to mount a 2'
long whip elt antenna, we are trying to see if we can use the short
'rubber ducky' type antennas. Especially on the RV-8 with a slider, it
would be nice, and in my opinion, would look a heck of a lot better!
Von Alexander
RV-8 N41VA
N41VA(at)juno.com
"No ugly metal whip antennas hangin off my airplane"
>
>Why would anyone want to mount a rubber duckie on their aircraft,
>especially
>if doing so would invalidate the TSO for their ELT?
>
>I use the Ameri-King ELT (having lots of trouble with it
>operationally, but
>that is another story) and the slender whip antenna that comes with it
>is all
>stainless and advertized as "zero-drag." I'm sure that's an
>exageration, but
>the drag can't be much - no loading coil like that chrome plated piece
>of junk
>that comes with the ACK. Just eyeballing the antenna, there's just no
>way it
>has more drag than a rubber duck, even a stubby model. And I'll bet
>it even
>weighs less.
>
>Rubber ducks work acceptably in most VHF/UHF applications, but they
>are
>unquestionably less efficient radiators than a quarter wave whip, and
>with an
>ELT you've only got milliwatt power to work with anyway, 50 percent of
>which
>is wasted in carrier. Why shift the equation even less in your favor?
> Tell
>me what I'm missing.
>
>-Bill Boyd
>no rubber ugly-sticks hangin' off my airplane...
>
>
>
>
> List Support Contributions:
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits |
What ever happened to Mark Frederick's version of the Rocket
quick build?. It was supposed to be out soon, and use the -4
wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuel line routing |
Alex,
Thanks. That's what I was looking for. It looks like it will just take
the installation of a few clamps and brackets to make a solid installation.
Your installation sounds very professional.
Thanks,
Bob Skinner RV-6 455 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
>In my case, the line from the left tank, which is inverted capable (the
>line exits the tank at the leading edge), comes straight through the
>fuselage wall just forward of F602, drops down to a point where it can be
>fastened with cushion clamps to the large 1/8 fore/aft angle, proceeds aft
>until it makes a 45 degree turn to match the triangle of the gear mount,
>catches one clamp on this triangular web, makes another 45 deg. turn about
>an inch or so in front of the spar (the line is just above the floor
>stiffeners). I built a bracket at this point to accept clamps and to
>protect the line. Finally, another bend upward to the valve. The right
>tank is the same, except that it comes through the wall between 602 and
>604.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits |
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> I spoke with Scott today, and it is not a Van's kit at all. He said it uses
> a few Van's parts, but for the most part, it is all custom built parts. It
> is it's own kit, and uses the Rocket II wings (different from the -4). The
> onl y Van's supplied kit will be the tail, which you construct. Cost is
> $28,000 and that includes the finish kit. I know I will have my eye on them
> a few years down the road when the -6 is just not doing it for me anymore!
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
> http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
> Canopy
>
If this is not the RV-4 wing then who did the engineering on it?
You say it uses the Rocket II wings, well the Rocket II wings are
RV-4 wings that have some mods made to the rib positions and the
are a tad bit shorter, and the fuel tank is modified but they are
still RV-4 wings. Is this a operation sanctioned by John Harmon?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Foil Windscreen Antennae |
On the Vans foil windscreen antennae the directions seem to indicate that the
wire from the BNC connector to the antennae counts as part of the 23" antennae
length. Am I reading that correctly? Also, is the wire from the connector to
the foil antennae just regular electrical wire and if so does the wire gauge
matter?
Dave Beizer
Moreno Valley Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul William Schattauer <schattauerpw(at)mindspring.com> |
22>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tank Riveting - New Question (really!) |
The only drawback I can think of is that the area around the rivet might not
seal properly, since the proseal is already dry when it is put in. If I had to
put up with the mess, what makes you think that you should get off easy? If
you go with that method, let us know how it turns out. Good luck, anything
less messy that works would be a blessing.
Brian Trubee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bought a Lycoming another way |
>
> I lucked out and bought an airplane for $3000. that was seriously
damaged
> on landing and more seriously damaged during salvaging. It had an
O-320
> with 189 hrs SMO. The prop never touched the ground. Run check &
tested
> good. Sold the airframe after removing what I wanted to use or sell
for
> $1200. Sold another $400.+ and had alt., airspeed, elect. T&B.,
vents,
> switches, C/Bs & etc. to use.
>
> Just another way toget in cheap.
>
>
> The best of Holidays!
> Denny, RV-6,
> Lebanon, OR
Denny:
Congradulations on figuring out the way to get an engine for a low
cost. That is exactly how I came about acquiring my O-320. In 1989,
it was $2,600 for the wrecked TriPacer and it had a prop strike. That
is how I came up with a $2,600 engine as I listed in my post. Yes it
is miss leading. In 1999, I would expect to pay $5,000 for the same
deal or about $12-13K for a outright rebuild O-320. I would add about
$3K to that for the O-360.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers |
Pegan,
I use the combination switch/circuit breaker for all non essential
circuits. I think they are cost and space effective for most circuits. I
have a auto engine conversion with electronic ignition and fuel
injection. I use only the pull type circuit breakers for engine
critical circuits as the combination rocker switch/Circuit breaker might
get accidently tripped off. I went in with George Orendorff as part of
a bulk order and got the combination switch/cb for less that $10 a piece
as best I recall. You might contact George and see if he still does the
bulk purchases.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
anderson_ed(at)bah.com
Northern VA
pagan wrote:
>
>
> Need some advice on circuit breakers. How about some pros and cons on
> using the switches with the circuit breakers all in one unit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
| Subject: | RV-6 PP Aileron Assembly |
Some time ago I completed my ailerons and during the process made some
notes. I know that those from Frank Justice and Gil Alexander (plus
others hints, bunny guides etc etc) are very helpful, especially Gil's.
But....I have a pre punched kit.
I have found that sometimes these notes do not specifically meet the
need of building a pp kit. Having the hole punched demands an assembly
sequence quite different. IMO the pp hole must be used as a drilling
guide.
For the aileron assembly I needed to come up with a sequence to ensure I
would hit the spar through an underlying skin. I used the following
sequence:
1. Fit the skeleton inside the PP skin.
2. Align the PP holes with a previously marked Centre Line marked on the
top spar flange. Drill and cleco the skin to spar.
3. Turn the Aileron over, clecos hanging over the edge of a flat table
surface.
4. Lift and prop the TE skin up and away from the spar if TE bend
already completed. I found it better to leave the TE unbent (as shipped)
for this step.
5. Using edgegrip clamps clamp the skin LE to the bottom spar centering
the pp holes with the previously marked centreline on the spar flange.
6. Drill and cleco the LE skin to the spar through only enough pp holes
(I drilled only 5 at equal spaces along the spar) to be sure the spar
will be held in place with the clecos. The remainder will be drilled
later.
6. Mark the LE skin with a felt pen to indicate the position of these
drilled holes.
7. If not already done complete TE bend.
8. Remove clecos and slip the TE skin under the pp LE skin.
9. Weight the skins with large (telephone) books on a flat surface.
10. At the centremost location where the holes were drilled through
(marked on the skin), very carefully drill partially through the .016
skin underlying. Remember it is unlikely that the spar will be
correctly located so don't drill through the skin.
11. Remove the books and lift the TE skin away from the spar, then drill
through this partially drilled hole in the skin.
12. Cleco the skin LE, TE and spar together through this hole.
13. Repeat 9 thru 12 for each of the 5 predrilled locations. Cleco
through all driled holes prior to drilling the next.
14. Drill the remainder of the skin/spar holes through the pp holes.
The skin is now drilled to the spar smack down the centre of the spar
flanges.
I riveted using the US Industrial bar #638 (Avery does have a similar
bar)after the side was polished. It fits nicely into the spar channel
with the cutout clearing the skin stiffner angles. Duct tape on the bar
protects the spar. This was awkward but not at all difficult.
I also made notes for building the trim tab, but wouldn't ya
know...Vans brings out a clip together idiot proof trim tab kit. Don't
some get it easy?
I hope this may be of some help to others.
Doug Gray
It looks like 1999 will be the year of the Wing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits (long) |
Listers:
I didn't expect to check mail this AM to find this going on! Well, I guess now
is as good a time as any! I have been working to introduce this kit for about
a year now, and it looks like it will happen this spring. Watch for us at Sun-
n-Fun!
The airframe has been closely inspected for any areas where improvements can
be made (builder interviews have highlighted a few things), and these
improvements have been designed into the updated kit. The new ships will
appear exactly like the older versions from, say, 30 feet, but many changes
will be observed upon closer inspection. Starting from scratch to produce an
existing design has some very distinct advantages- you can "Monday Morning
Quarterback" any glitches out of the design. This is certainly not meant to
reduce the good design and engineering done by both John and Van- these two
fellas have a gift in their ability to come up with the original airframe
design.
Read on:
Scott Brown writes:
Harmon Rocket Fans!!!
Florida RV-Ation now offers Harmon Rocket II Fast Build Kits!! These kits fall
under the FAA 51% rule, and are very similar to the "fast build kits" offered
by Van's Aircraft. Workmanship is outstanding and the price is right!! This is
a 250 MPH, 3500 FPM climb airplane!! These kits come complete (builder is
responsible for purchasing only the tail separately). Now is the time for you
to own one of the hottest kit planes on the market, the Harmon Rocket II.
If you or any of your fellow RV-Ators are interested in having a Harmon Rocket
II Fast-build kit, please call me at (561) 748-2429 or E-mail me at
FLARV8N(at)AOL.COM.
Thanks again for choosing Florida RV-Ation.
Scott Brown
President - Florida RV-Ation
And Jerry Springer writes: (jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com)
<< If this is not the RV-4 wing then who did the engineering on it?
You say it uses the Rocket II wings, well the Rocket II wings are
RV-4 wings that have some mods made to the rib positions and the
are a tad bit shorter, and the fuel tank is modified but they are
still RV-4 wings. Is this a operation sanctioned by John Harmon?
The aircraft is being analyzed to make sure the airframe will handle the loads
imposed. There appears to be no major problems. Also, John is helping with the
project.
The wing:
We have relofted the rib profile to be an exact 23XXX airfoil (Van had changed
this slightly). The fuel tanks will be 52 gal., and Oliver Brennan's 'Hott
Tips' will be used. We plan to use embossed aileron skins to eliminate the
need for stiffeners (this will also be applied to the rudder & elevs when
these parts are produced).
Michael Lott writes:
What ever happened to Mark Frederick's version of the Rocket
quick build?. It was supposed to be out soon, and use the -4
wing.
This *is* my project, and it is the same as I have described all along: a
complete kit (initially, less empennage), manufactured to assemble the HR2. It
will have its own wing, changed a bit from the RV-4 wing (see above). The fuse
has been relofted to remove the less that optimal fit of the bulkheads
(resulting in part from the combination of Van's & John's parts). An empennage
will be available at a later date.
Jerry Springer writes:
So are you building the complete kit and NOT buying RV-4 kits from Vans?
Correct.
Are you still using the RV-4 wings and fuselage?
No. However, if you HAVE these parts, and wish to build up a Rocket from those
parts, we will supply the necessary parts to allow that. These parts will also
be available from John, as is the case now.
Further questions can be directed to either me or Scott. Whew! Is it noon yet?
I never drink in the morning....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denny Harjehausen <harje(at)proaxis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bought a Lycoming another way |
>Denny:
>
>Congradulations on figuring out the way to get an engine for a low
>cost. That is exactly how I came about acquiring my O-320. In 1989,
>it was $2,600 for the wrecked TriPacer and it had a prop strike. That
>is how I came up with a $2,600 engine as I listed in my post. Yes it
>is miss leading. In 1999, I would expect to pay $5,000 for the same
>deal or about $12-13K for a outright rebuild O-320. I would add about
>$3K to that for the O-360.
I must agree that engines are not easy to find and it takes a lot of work
and some luck. I knew nothing about piston engines. Jets was what I had
been exposed to for 30+ years. So I made pest out of myself asked a lot of
questions. Let everyone know I wanted an engine. But I must say in my
heart I don't look at my engine as great deal. I think I paid what was a
fair price. Too many except the idea that there is something special about
these engines. I am from the old school which was, the engine was like a
car engine....the body what was important. The engine will be repaired and
replaced many times in the life of the body. Somewhere this got out of
hand. As a commitee of one I am fighting this hesteria. We all know the
agency and groups that help this happen.....but??? I like to think I am
trying to bring prices back in line. But I probably am dreaming, if I am
in the obvious minority!
The best of Holidays!
Denny, RV-6,
Lebanon, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: battery ground |
>>... I advise my builders
>> to ground the battery to a firewall ground stud that
>> is attached via braided strap to crankcase on other side.
>
>I never could find a braided strap, so I just went with #2 wire.
>Any reason not to do it this way? Yes it's stiffer but it
>does take a "U" shaped path to the engine so I don't think
>that will be a problem....
The wire isn't the major stress point, it's the terminals.
When the engine jumps around in the mounts, the termials
get flexed and ultimately crack if the wire isn't supported
at each end to the crankcase and firewall.
We'll be adding custom braided bonding jumpers to our website
catalog soon. I have all materials in stock for fabrication.
You'll order by stating length between holes and diameter of
each terminal hole. They'll be something on the order of $15.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint tanks separately? |
| From: | "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)cctrap.com> |
Greetings listers,,
I am in the process of having my 4 painted at a local body & paint shop.
I am trying to decide the best method of painting the fuel tanks.
Originally, I had intended to paint them separate and apart from the
wings in order to maintain a "clean" edge/screw holes, to facilitate
future maintenance concerns (yuck). I was intending to fasten with
stainless hardware as the screws would then be visible.
But now, I am rethinking this process,,, primarily because of my desire
to ease the painting and masking detail required for my planned paint
scheme. And also to address the cosmetic concerns over visible screw
heads,, s/s or otherwise. Since I am not painting this a/c myself, it
would be much easier for the shop to paint the wings as an assembly. It
would also ensure a matching masking pattern as the design transitions
from tank to wing.
What do you think?? Any ideas?? Has anybody had to remove a tank that has
been painted in assembly with the wings??
Thanks,,,
(RV-4 in the painting stages!!)
Derrick L. Aubuchon
n184da(at)cctrap.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Paint tanks separately? |
Derrick,
I'll be painting my -6 wings next week. 2 questions come to mind to help with your
decision.
1) Do you have stripes, and or different colors, on the tanks?
2) Is there any "metallic" colors on the tank/leading edge?
If you have stripes that go from the leading edge on to the tank, or a metallic
color on the tanks/leading edge, I would leave the tanks on to assure a proper
match. Some metallics are very sensitive to number of coats, air pressure,
and humidity. I always like to paint them at exactly the same time, with the
same number of coats. I had a job where a separately painted part didn't quite
match, even though it came out of the same can. I like to eliminate the variables,
as paint can be a bit of a black art, for me a least :-)
I plan to use just a couple of screws, that have the edges ground back, to hold
the tanks on while I paint. That way the paint will get down the dimple, and
when I put stainless screws in, it will look like it was painted separately.
It seems like most the RV's I look at have the screw heads painted over. It looks
great until you have to remove a tank for some reason.
Laird RV-6 22923
SoCal
>Greetings listers,,
I am in the process of having my 4 painted at a local body & paint shop.
I am trying to decide the best method of painting the fuel tanks.
Originally, I had intended to paint them separate and apart from the
wings in order to maintain a "clean" edge/screw holes, to facilitate
future maintenance concerns (yuck). I was intending to fasten with
stainless hardware as the screws would then be visible.
But now, I am rethinking this process,,, primarily because of my desire
to ease the painting and masking detail required for my planned paint
scheme. And also to address the cosmetic concerns over visible screw
heads,, s/s or otherwise. Since I am not painting this a/c myself, it
would be much easier for the shop to paint the wings as an assembly. It
would also ensure a matching masking pattern as the design transitions
from tank to wing.<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Paint tanks separately? |
Question on this thread.
Are the screws that hold the tank on supposed to be structural? Doesn't
that leave out Stainless screws?
Bob
RV8 N802RV reserved. Working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Clay Smith <clayfly(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint tanks separately? |
Derrick,
My $0.02 may not count for much as I'm not to the painting stage on my -4, but
I
would recommend you test and retest your tanks for leaks and to ensure your
senders function properly. Then, mount the tanks and paint w/ the wings. If
the tanks test OK there's very little risk you'll have to tear into them later.
Best of luck!
Clay Smith, RV-4, N9X (reserved)
Derrick L. Aubuchon wrote:
>
> Greetings listers,,
>
> I am in the process of having my 4 painted at a local body & paint shop.
> I am trying to decide the best method of painting the fuel tanks.
> Originally, I had intended to paint them separate and apart from the
> wings in order to maintain a "clean" edge/screw holes, to facilitate
> future maintenance concerns (yuck). I was intending to fasten with
> stainless hardware as the screws would then be visible.
>
> But now, I am rethinking this process,,, primarily because of my desire
> to ease the painting and masking detail required for my planned paint
> scheme. And also to address the cosmetic concerns over visible screw
> heads,, s/s or otherwise. Since I am not painting this a/c myself, it
> would be much easier for the shop to paint the wings as an assembly. It
> would also ensure a matching masking pattern as the design transitions
> from tank to wing.
>
> What do you think?? Any ideas?? Has anybody had to remove a tank that has
> been painted in assembly with the wings??
>
> Thanks,,,
>
> (RV-4 in the painting stages!!)
>
> Derrick L. Aubuchon
> n184da(at)cctrap.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Paint tanks separately? |
<< What do you think?? Any ideas?? Has anybody had to remove a tank that has
been painted in assembly with the wings?? >>
Hmmmmm.....It would be better to have the tank on the wing while painting (too
get the stripes to match). It may not need any screws during this process.
As for the final assy with SS screws, take your deburr tool and scrape the
paint out of the dimple or c/s for the screw head. Without this paint removal
process, as the screw tightens, you will see that it tends to twist the still
soft paint, possibly causing a large tear-out around the screw head. Not the
desired result! Careful work with the deburr toll will not be noticeable. Use
this process at the boot cowl area also.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Paint tanks separately? |
To all,
Bob brings up a good point. RV-6 dwg #18 calls out AN509-8-R8 for the tank attachment.
Looking at my Mil Std book shows that AN509 was superseded by MS24694.
The "R" (which was superceded by "S") calls out steel with a min. tensile strength
of 125,000 PSI. The stainless specs out at 85,000 PSI. A strength reduction
of 68%. Just in case you wanted to order some of these the new part # would
be MS24694-S5
I'll email the factory and see if an approved swap, but I doubt it. I'll report
back on their response.
It looks like I'll go with steel screws and painted heads and hope I'll never have
to pull the tanks.
This shows where this List really shines. I love learning something that I hadn't
thought of before. Thanks, Bob.
Laird
SoCal
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com on Thu, Dec 17, 1998 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint tanks separately?
Question on this thread.
Are the screws that hold the tank on supposed to be structural? Doesn't
that leave out Stainless screws?
Bob
RV8 N802RV reserved. Working on wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Bundy <ebundy(at)mci2000.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Foil Windscreen Antennae |
Yes, 23" is the total length from the BNC connector to the tip of the foil.
I don't think the wire type matters at all. I brought the BNC connector up
through the top skin right near the bottom of the foil and used about 3" of
16g wire. I really love this antenna; it's simple, cheap, zero drag, and it
has great range. Once you've used it for a couple of hours you don't even
see it.
Ed Bundy - Eagle, ID RV6A - First flight 11/20/96
ebundy(at)mci2000.com
http://home.mci2000.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>
>On the Vans foil windscreen antennae the directions seem to indicate that
the
>wire from the BNC connector to the antennae counts as part of the 23"
antennae
>length. Am I reading that correctly? Also, is the wire from the connector
to
>the foil antennae just regular electrical wire and if so does the wire
gauge
>matter?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Strong, Colin" <colin.strong(at)intel.com> |
I marked the overlap area with a pen line, then clamped each .125 angle
into the vise and went at them with my trusty vixen file. It took only
about 10 min. per angle to cut the notch, and the file made a very nice
flat surface. A quick pass over the scotch brite wheel took care of
the tool marks.
Colin Strong
RV6 - Wings
->-----Original Message-----
->From: Scott Kuebler [mailto:skuebler(at)CANNONdesign.com]
->Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 1998 9:15 AM
->To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
->Subject: RV-List: Wing Rib 73.5
->
->
->
->
->Hi all,
->My question is about modifying the wing rib at station 73.5
->to accommodate the aileron bellcrank. Is it necessary to
->remove material from the two support angles that overlap the
->third angle in order for them to lay flat against the rib?
->In order to clear the .063 alum. angle you would have to
->remove half of the flange thickness on the .0125 angle, and I
->can't think of an easy or clean way of doing this with the
->tools I have.
->Would it be all right to let them overlap without removing
->any material. There would then be a gap between the support
->angle and the rib (1/16" max. tapering down to 0") that could
->be filled with shims or pulled together with a rivet.
->
->Thanks in advance,
->
->Scott Kuebler
->Buffalo, NY
->RV-6 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Listers
The Alternator belt seems to be the correct width for the Alt pully, but
too wide for the Ring Gear. There is a light coating of " Rubber dust"
on and around the engine and You can see where the Ring Gear is eating
away at the upper sides of the belt. I'm using a Gates automotive
belt per Van's recomendation. Should I just let it "wear in" or
is there a better way?
The first of hopefully very few problems.
Craig Hiers
Tallahassee, FL.
RV-4 N143CH Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine storage |
<< While on this subject, I once saw a fellow who was holding up this RV with
this engine hook. Please if you have to raise your RV once the engine is
installed do it the following way. Get a couple of good strong straps and
wrap them around the top two ( one on each side of the engine ) engine
mount tubes, as close to the rubber mounts as possible. >>
Keep in mind that the strap and bolt were made to hold the entire weight of
the engine, which is less than 300 lbs. I, for one, have lifted the front of
the plane in just that way, to work on the nose gear. (This is for
entertainment purposes only and is not a recommendation). The RV-6A will sit
on its tail until the engine is hung. Therefore, the weight of the engine is
what makes it sit on the nose gear. To cause the plane to squat on the tail
for awhile to do nose gear work, or what have you, it is only necessary to
take part of the engine's weight off the nosegear by lifting at the strap on
top of the crank case. A cherry picker shop crane does this easily. The
force on the hook is less than the entire weight of the engine. Caution:
lifting the airframe enough to raise the main gear or applying the force
sideways rather than straight up could tear a piece of the crankcase out,
ruining your whole day. Just something to consider, which I have done
carefully many times and gotten away with. It could be that tying the tail
down to a block of cement to raise the nose is safer. Either method could
kill you if it failed while you were underneath it.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint tanks separately? |
On the comment about stainless screws. If you can find MS24694-C5 (the C
means corrosion resistant) the tensile strength should be the same. The
MS number designates the spec. I was able to order MS24294-C5's from
Avial. I do get questioned by the occasional builder about using SS
screws in my tanks but I am confident that they meet the original
strength spec of steel screws.
Owens wrote:
>
>
> To all,
> Bob brings up a good point. RV-6 dwg #18 calls out AN509-8-R8 for the tank attachment.
Looking at my Mil Std book shows that AN509 was superseded by MS24694.
The "R" (which was superceded by "S") calls out steel with a min. tensile
strength of 125,000 PSI. The stainless specs out at 85,000 PSI. A strength reduction
of 68%. Just in case you wanted to order some of these the new part #
would be MS24694-S5
>
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint tanks separately? |
| From: | "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)cctrap.com> |
True, but there are structural s/s screws available that have equivalent
strength. I had a set on my Cherokee's fuel tanks. I wasn't going to use
the "garden-variety" s/s srew.
>Question on this thread.
>
> Are the screws that hold the tank on supposed to be structural? Doesn't
>that leave out Stainless screws?
>
> Bob
> RV8 N802RV reserved. Working on wings
Derrick L. Aubuchon
n184da(at)cctrap.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Craig Hiers <craig-RV4(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Moe Colontonio wrote:
>
>
> Send me your ICQ # Vince. If you are online from 8-11 Eastern time, we will
> invite you in. It's not a "room", it's just a group of people, you either
> have to be invited in, or invite somebody else to chat with you. A current
> list of builders using the program can be found on my website.
>
> Regulars include Al Mojzisik, Doug Ronzendaal, Bruce Stobbe, Charlie Kuss,
> Jeff Orear, Chet Razer, Jim Nice, Peter Winter, and a few other Aussie
> builders.
>
> Moe Colontonio
> moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
> Check out my RV-8 Page at:
> http://tabshred.com/moe
>
Moe
Please add me to your ICQ list.
Craig Hiers
RV-4 N143CH
Tallahassee,FL.
ICQ# 25698129
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rv4george(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Paint tanks separately? |
Actually the use of SS screws is a strength reduction of 32% or 68% as strong
as
the steel screws.
Jim George rv4george(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engine storage |
> It could be that tying the tail
> down to a block of cement to raise the nose is safer. Either method could kill
you if it failed while you were underneath it.
>
When I did the nose gear check on my 6A, I lifted the nose by placing
two 70 lbs sandbags at the root of the stabilzer. These are available at
most hardware store for about $4 each. They are sold here to put in
vehicles for extra traction in the snow. Anyway, one bag almost does it
and the second one picks the nose right up. Even when the plane tilts
back the bags appear firmly on the tail, and not even close to slipping
off, (which would not be a pretty picture, especially if you are
underneath the engine). But just in case, I tied a light rope around the
bags and formed a loop around the front of the rudder so they couldn't
slip. Then I tied a heavier rope to the roof rafters and around the
engine hook just in case both plan 1 and plan 2 failed. I'm a bit of a
chicken with things like that.
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
http://www.rvbookstore.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Owens" <owens(at)Aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Steel vs. Stainless screws |
To All,
Here's Van's response. It's one of the things that bugs me when you ask a technical
question of them. I've never gotten a answer back saying "well we asked
the Engineering, and they said....." I bet if they asked Van he'd have an opinion.
Oh well, I know there doing there best.
Being expermentals, I guess we can do what we want. But stainless screws are still
68% the strength of steel screws, at least in the AN509 series.
Laird
SoCal
From: Support on Thu, Dec 17, 1998 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Tank attachment screws
Plenty of people have done it but we have never tested it or even devised a
test... that is about all I can say.... Tom at Van's
>Hello all,
>I have a question about the tank attachment screws. My RV-6 plans (#18)
>call out AN509-8-R8, a low alloy steel screw, with a tensile strength of
>125,000 PSI. Is it acceptable to subsitute a AN509C8R8 (same screw in
>stainless at 85,000 PSI) ? I want to attach my tanks with non painted
>stainless screws.
>Thanks,
>Laird Owens
>RV-6 22923
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Lycoming engine prices |
Lycoming prices - Here is what I learned:
More info on overhauls and what not to get tangled up with are in the archives.
In particular is a good article by Herman Dierks. In general one greatly
prefers a first runout and deplores prop strikes. However, an old timer in the
industry told me that it is easy to hide a prop strike! Ideally, one would
examine not only the engine logs but also know about the aircraft it was in.
An auto engine from the junk yard is basically a used engine just as is a used
Lycoming. A comparison of a new engine with a used engine, even if overhauled
is not all that meaningful. There are different "levels" of reconditioning of
airplane engines in the certified world:
Remanufactured - only the factory (Lyconental) or designee can do
Rebuilt ?? not sure if this is a level or not
Overhauled to new limits - but is *EVERY* part at new limits?
Overhauled to service limits - might be over limits in a few hours
In the experimental area I suppose anything goes such evil things as
straightening crankshafts and rods, building up parts with plating or metal
spraying etc etc. With any overhaul, be sure to check what you get for the
money.
Cores: I found cores of unknown total times, second or more runs etc and none
under about $7000. Prop strike engines less but not by all that much. I only
asked about O360's and O320's are a bit less but much more plentiful.
Factory Reman: more than Van's for new
Quality overhaul such as Victor aviation: $12000; Bart Lalonde probably
provides as much for less.
Cheap overhaul : You see several ads in TAP for about $9000.
Bart quoted me 15,800 with a new, thick flange crankshaft.
Used (Wentworth) with no bad stuff in the logs 1165 hours for $11,500. O360A4M
he probably still has it. I offered $10K and didn't even get a
counter as he was confident he would get his price.
Used (Whites KCMO) High total hours on good sounding OH, Prop strike dials over
limit but only $6750. Add for teardown ?? $2000 and possibly a
crankshaft and even more. Rods can bend, gears chip or crack. I
didn't try getting them to allow me to tear it down and return it
if unacceptable.
Used engines come from several causes which I hadn't thought about such as caved
in buildings and crashes where the prop is untouched. They also come from shops
who upgrade airplanes to bigger engines. Something to remember is that tiresome
statement "Your life depends on it".
If anyone in the Bay Area wants to overhaul his own Lycoming, I'd be willing to
help so that I could add it to my looong list of engines overhauled.
New Lycomings from Van's are really are bargain if funding is available cheaply
such as a new mortgage. O360 for delivery next year -- $20,500.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at Stockton, CA.
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lundquist" <DLUNDQUIST(at)postoffice.worldnet.att.net> |
Listers,
While I'm unfortunately still some time off from the engine decision, the
recent threads have raised one question which I have not seen mentioned.
That is: Has anyone put an O290 in an RV-6? I thought I saw some mention of
an O290 RV-4 but can't quite recall any further info. I'm aware this is an
older engine but thought it was based on the same case as the current
O320/360. Prices for used and/or rebuilt 290's seem substantially lower
than those for the 320's. Are they just too little power?
One further note. I have just completed my wing spars using the Harbor
Freight press. Very Nice, very easy. Highly recommended
Dave Lundquist
RV-6 Wings
Long Island NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike1769(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Paint tanks separately? |
In a message dated 12/17/98 12:51:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, Mlfred(at)aol.com
writes:
<< As for the final assy with SS screws, take your deburr tool and scrape the
paint out of the dimple or c/s for the screw head. Without this paint removal
process, as the screw tightens, you will see that it tends to twist the still
soft paint, possibly causing a large tear-out around the screw head. Not the
desired result! Careful work with the deburr toll will not be noticeable. Use
this process at the boot cowl area also. >>
***Try some candle wax under those screw heads.***
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap construction |
Getting ready to assemble flaps and I'm a little confused as to how to tell
the angles apart on the flap brace and spar. Are the tops and bottoms of the
parts as depicted on the plans? How does the builder determine what angle
goes where? Especially when the angles fabricated into the parts are so close.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Drilling tank skins - tip |
RV-Listers,
I just finished drilling the tank skins to the ribs, and found a good
way to get the ribs lined up with the holes on the bottom side of the
skins.
I found that I could lift up the bottom aft edge of the skin a tiny
little bit (even with the straps done up pretty tight) and push one
end of a steel carpenters square up between the skin and the baffle
and use it to prod the ribs sideways as required. Once you've got
the first three or four holes aft of the leading edge done, the ribs
are pretty much fixed in position, so its critical to have things
well lined up when you do those. The corners of the end of the
square that I stuck up between the ribs were covered with duct tape
to keep from scratching up the ribs.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Paint tanks separately? |
Derrick,
I painted my RV4 wings with the tanks installed.
I had to remove a tank for a fuel seep. By carefully
going around each screw with an exacto knife I
was able to do it with minimumal paint loss.
Stew RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis P. Kane" <dennis(at)asimov.net> |
Respectfully,
Dennis Kane
STRAYlight Aviation Ephemera
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Baxter" <robbax(at)ebtech.net> |
I've been lurking this list for a few months while scheming and planning for
a -6 project. I bought some tools from Action Air Parts (Jerry Williams)
today. I bought a 2X CP rivet gun and a Rockwell airdrill (all reconditioned
by Jerry). I live on the Ontario/Michigan border and its a short trip to
Action Air Parts shop. I got a nice "starter kit" that cost me $300. It
included some new hand tools such as rivet cutters,hand seamer, a few cleco
pliers, 2 microstop counter sinks, some clecos, bucking bar and accessories
for the rivet gun. Jerry gave me my choice of a steel or aluminum body for
the rivet gun (I chose steel) and he let me try out a few and select my gun.
A question I have for the list........is a pneumatic squeezer a must have or
a nice to have?How much of a time saver is a pneumatic squeezer? He has
dozens of them in his shop with all sorts of yoke sizes. They range in price
from $300-$350. I still have lot's of tools to buy as well as a "tail" to
order.
For others who are in the "start-up" mode , Jerry offers 3 tool kits and he
has a large pile of everything in his shop (including a nearly complete
Skybolt ). I first heard of this guy from this list and I am lucky enough
to be almost next door to him.
Rob Baxter
Forest Ont.
gearing up
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap construction |
Set the edge right on the plans.
Mark clearly with a sharpie.
Root, tip, up & down on both sides for & aft.
Also left and right. You will be glad you did.
Larry Olson
Cave Creek, AZ
RV6 - Waiting for fuse to arrive
>
>Getting ready to assemble flaps and I'm a little confused as to how to tell
>the angles apart on the flap brace and spar. Are the tops and bottoms of the
>parts as depicted on the plans? How does the builder determine what angle
>goes where? Especially when the angles fabricated into the parts are so
close.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap construction |
>
> Getting ready to assemble flaps and I'm a little confused as to how to tell
> the angles apart on the flap brace and spar. Are the tops and bottoms of the
> parts as depicted on the plans? How does the builder determine what angle
> goes where? Especially when the angles fabricated into the parts
> are so close.
I held the flap spar end on up against the end view on the plans
(RV-8). I found that I was able to detect a small disagreement
between the plans and the spar if I held it the wrong way. If I had
it the right way the spar completely covered the spar cross section
on the plans.
E-mail me direct if I haven't made myself clear.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | URL error and New Information |
A few days ago I cited a link to a downloadable copy of
Appendix Z (power distribution diagrams with notes) to
the aeroelectric connection. The link had a typo and the
REAL link is:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z8.pdf
Over the past several weeks, I've had several requests from
builders for installation of a very light, dual alternator
system. I've modified one of hte power distribution diagrams
from the book and published it separately at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/fig_z6.pdf
BTW . . . the B&C spline drive alternator (about 10 years
old) has received the benefits of modern materials and process
upgrades. While officially listed as an 8 amp device, in
reality it's now capable of over 10 amps output. I show
the wiring for using an SD-8 in place of a vacuum pump
for a totally electric panel. The diagram is also suited
for pairing a belt driven add-on alernator paired with the
built in alternator on the Rotax 912/914 series engines.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Velvick <rver(at)caljet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap construction |
>
>Getting ready to assemble flaps and I'm a little confused as to how to tell
>the angles apart on the flap brace and spar. Are the tops and bottoms of the
>parts as depicted on the plans? How does the builder determine what angle
>goes where? Especially when the angles fabricated into the parts are so close.
On sheet 17 in the upper right side, there is a full scale drawing of the
flap spar and the flap brace looking at them from the end. Just stand the
ends of your pieces vertically on them to see which is the top or the
bottom. The tops of each on the drawing is the top of each as mounted on
the wing.
Regards
Tom Velvick
rv-6a fusilage
back to lurker mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 flap construction |
JFW9855(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Getting ready to assemble flaps and I'm a little confused as to how to tell
> the angles apart on the flap brace and spar. Are the tops and bottoms of the
> parts as depicted on the plans? How does the builder determine what angle
> goes where? Especially when the angles fabricated into the parts are so close.
>
Yes, the top of the brace and spar on the plans is the actual top. Some
builders hold the end of the brace/spar to the plans to determine the
top. I used a litte protracter type device to measure the angles. Once
you determine the top, tip, and root for the right and left brace/spar,
be sure to mark them good.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | dimple/countersink wingwalk |
Have searched in the archieves but came up empty. How did you dimple or
countersink the wing walk reinforcement on top skins of -6 or -6a?
Did you:
(1) countersink the .032 top skin and do nothing to wingwalk and ribs.
(2) dimple the .032 top skin, countersink the wing walk, and do
nothing to the ribs.
(3) dimple all three.
(4) do some kind of a combo of the above.
Thanks,
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: painting with screws in place |
>
>Derrick,
> I painted my RV4 wings with the tanks installed.
>I had to remove a tank for a fuel seep. By carefully
>going around each screw with an exacto knife I
>was able to do it with minimumal paint loss.
>Stew RV4 Co.
>
If you wish to paint tanks and covers assembled on the airframe, put all the
parts together with the screws in place. If the screws are left loose, about
two or three threads proud of the screw hole.
This should allow the paint to feather into the c/s under the screw head
reducing problems with paint squirm when the screws are tightened later.
If you want to go with the unpainted stainless screws, substitute some cheap
hardware store machine screws screwed in a bit deeper. The steeper angled
head should still allow the desired paint in the c/s.
You can also put washers/spacers under covers and parts to allow paint under
and around the edges. Pre-spray holes etc. and check that the parts/covers
have edge clearance for the paint.
A few layers of temporary masking tape under the tank flanges might work to
hold the edges up for painting. I have not yet tried this tape idea.
jim Kelowna B.C. Can. main skins wings >
When dreams come true the sky is the limit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple/countersink wingwalk |
--------------678C386C64520889EC1EFC9E
jerry calvert wrote:
>
>
> Have searched in the archieves but came up empty. How did you dimple or
> countersink the wing walk reinforcement on top skins of -6 or -6a?
>
> Did you:
> (1) countersink the .032 top skin and do nothing to wingwalk and ribs.
> (2) dimple the .032 top skin, countersink the wing walk, and do
> nothing to the ribs.
> (3) dimple all three.
> (4) do some kind of a combo of the above.
>
>
Jerry,
I used option 3. I dimple everything up to and including .040 if at all
possible. Dimpling creates a locking action (in shear) due to the
dimples. Countersinking .032 skins creates a knife edge.
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993 Fabulous Air Box
--------------678C386C64520889EC1EFC9E
name="zilik.vcf"
filename="zilik.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Zilik;Gary
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:zilik(at)bewellnet.com
fn:Gary Zilik
end:vcard
--------------678C386C64520889EC1EFC9E--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jacquelyn eastburn <jimnjax(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: bought a Lycoming another way |
i agree 100% with your last post.
jim eastburn, north plains or. RV-8 ser.80079
Too many except the idea that there is something special about
> these engines. I am from the old school which was, the engine was like a
> car engine....the body what was important. The engine will be repaired and
> replaced many times in the life of the body.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | dimple/countersink wingwalk |
I believe that I dimpled everything, too.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A instrument panel
-----Original Message-----
Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
>
> Did you:
> (1) countersink the .032 top skin and do nothing to
wingwalk and ribs.
> (2) dimple the .032 top skin, countersink the wing walk,
and do
> nothing to the ribs.
> (3) dimple all three.
> (4) do some kind of a combo of the above.
>
>
Jerry,
I used option 3. I dimple everything up to and including
.040 if at all
possible. Dimpling creates a locking action (in shear) due
to the
dimples. Countersinking .032 skins creates a knife edge.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | bought a Lycoming another way |
On the same topic, sort of. I have called around to those places who
advertise low prices for new and rebuilt Lycoming engines. The low prices
are based on the assumption that the buyer will have an old engine to trade.
The prices quoted in the media are after subtracting a $5,000 to $6,000 core
allowance. If you don't have an old engine, you need to add that much to
the published price.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Walk Dimpling/Countersink |
Jerry Calvert wrote :
Did you:
(1) countersink the .032 top skin and do nothing to wingwalk and ribs.
(2) dimple the .032 top skin, countersink the wing walk, and do
nothing to the ribs.
(3) dimple all three.
(4) do some kind of a combo of the above.
I chose number three above and agree with another post that given the
chance I will always dimple.
I initially had apprehensions that the skin, doubler and ribs would not
line up exactly after dimpling but found out that they lined up
perfectly. After riveting I was very pleased with the result. Dimple,
dimple, dimple
Fran Malczynski
RV-6 (Fuse)
Olcott, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple/countersink wingwalk |
jerry calvert wrote:
>
>
> Have searched in the archieves but came up empty. How did you dimple or
> countersink the wing walk reinforcement on top skins of -6 or -6a?
>
> Did you:
> (1) countersink the .032 top skin and do nothing to wingwalk and ribs.
> (2) dimple the .032 top skin, countersink the wing walk, and do
> nothing to the ribs.
> (3) dimple all three.
> (4) do some kind of a combo of the above.
>
> Thanks,
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
RV guys,
Thanks to everyone who responded. Dimpling the top skin, wingwalk
reinforcement, and ribs, seems to be the unanimous choice. This is good
to hear since it usually takes me 30 minutes just to get the countersink
adjusted!
Thanks again,
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
Rob;
I feel sure you will get different answers on this. In my opinion, a p.s.
is not a required item. It is like so many other tools that are nice to
have if your wallet has no limit as to what it will regurgitate. I didn't
use one and have no regrets. As to time saved, I have no idea. I was
enjoying the building process too much to be overly concerned with the time
saving aspect.
Many will say that you must have a band saw. Not so. I used a hand
operated hack saw. Yes there were times I would have appreciated a band
saw, but again, not necessary. Although I will admit, other than the bench
mounted grinder with the special abrasive wheel, a band saw would be my next
most used item. Don't know how that would fit with the newer kits, they may
not need as much grinding.
Press on and enjoy yourself with the building.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
>A question I have for the list........is a pneumatic squeezer a must have
or
>a nice to have?How much of a time saver is a pneumatic squeezer? He has
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
Friend of mine has a GPS trimble flightmate pro with all attachments. New
in box never used . Cost $700.00 at sun/fun asking $350 or best offer. Sold
airplane and never used it. If interested contact Bill Sanders at 941
4754066 Englewood FL.
planejoe(at)flnet.com
RV6A/fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: dimple/countersink wingwalk |
How did you dimple or countersink the wing walk reinforcement on top
skins of -6 or -6a?
> Did you:
>(1) countersink the .032 top skin and do nothing to wingwalk and
>ribs.
>(2) dimple the .032 top skin, countersink the wing walk, and do
>nothing to the ribs.
>(3) dimple all three.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jerry:
I dimpled all three.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Rob,
I am sure that others will disagree, but here's my .02 worth. The
pneumatic squeezer saves time and sore muscles. It is, however, easy to
make a mistake with the pneumatic. I have bought several replacement
parts because of the pneumatic squeezer. The hand squeezer is more than
adequate and not difficult to use. If I had to choose between an Avery
hand squeezer with several yokes and a pneumatic with one yoke, the hand
squeezer would win hands down ( pun intended). I would buy the hand
squeezer with several yokes and add the pneumatic later as cash flow
allows. I don't think I would want a pneumatic without also having a
hand squeezer.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, fuselage
A question I have for the list........is a pneumatic
squeezer a must have or
a nice to have?How much of a time saver is a pneumatic
squeezer? He has
dozens of them in his shop with all sorts of yoke sizes.
They range in price
from $300-$350. I still have lot's of tools to buy as
well as a "tail" to
order.
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 12/18/98 9:34:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, johnd@our-
town.com writes:
<< Many will say that you must have a band saw. Not so. I used a hand
operated hack saw. Yes there were times I would have appreciated a band
saw, but again, not necessary. Although I will admit, other than the bench
mounted grinder with the special abrasive wheel, a band saw would be my next
most used item. Don't know how that would fit with the newer kits, they may
not need as much grinding. >>
John,
I'm sure you will get lots of opinions, but a bandsaw is the last item on my
list with the new kits. A hacksaw and a small sabre saw with a metal cutting
blade will make fast work of anything in the new kits IMHO. A squeezer is a
joy and will reduce the building time. A small drill press is a necessity in
my book, nothing fancy.
Bernie Kerr, 6A systems and engine mounting, SE FLA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
You could put the $300-500 into MANY more useful tools. I would rather have
more tools, than one nice one...much more versatility that way. Things like
right angle drills, vice grip fluting pliers, transfer punches, etc, etc,
are stuff you don't need, but are sure nice to have.
If you are to buy anything else pneumatic, buy pop rivet gun from harbour
freight. They are about $50 and well worth it. Works great, and saves your
arms, too. http://www.harborfreight.com/
Take a look at my website's tool section, it will give you a good Idea as to
what I use. (keep in mind that mine is a quickbuild)
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er/shop/thetools.htm
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | dimple/countersink wingwalk |
I dimpled the reinforcement sheet using the Avery C-arm and a hammer before
I installed it on the wing.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
How did you dimple or countersink the wing walk
reinforcement on top
skins of -6 or -6a?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Rob,
We wouldn't be without our pneumatic squeezer. We took the advice of
many experienced builders to use a squeezer when ever possible. Our
decision to use a pneumatic rather than a hand squeezer was made to
ensure consistancy. We have also found that the a pneumatic squeezer is
much faster. If you can try one out I'm sure you'll agree, It's the only
way to go.
We have a couple of yokes and borrowed a 4" from a friend. I'd also
recommend the adjustable ram (Avery, which eliminates shims).
One other tool that has really helped is the 3M mini disks. This comes
as a set with (6) 3M disks (2-med & 2-fine) and (2-sanding disks). The
stem is chucked into a same hand grinder (pneumatic). We picked this kit
up from Home Depot for about $15. They made the process of deburring
edges quick & easy. Replacement disks (3 packs Fine) cost about $3.
I'd also recommend a significant purchase of the 1/8 & 3/16 clecos.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV8A - finishing Left Elevator
>From: "Robert Baxter" <robbax(at)ebtech.net>
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Tools
>Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 22:01:48 -0500
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>I've been lurking this list for a few months while scheming and
planning for
>a -6 project. I bought some tools from Action Air Parts (Jerry
Williams)
>today. I bought a 2X CP rivet gun and a Rockwell airdrill (all
reconditioned
>by Jerry). I live on the Ontario/Michigan border and its a short trip
to
>Action Air Parts shop. I got a nice "starter kit" that cost me $300. It
>included some new hand tools such as rivet cutters,hand seamer, a few
cleco
>pliers, 2 microstop counter sinks, some clecos, bucking bar and
accessories
>for the rivet gun. Jerry gave me my choice of a steel or aluminum body
for
>the rivet gun (I chose steel) and he let me try out a few and select my
gun.
>A question I have for the list........is a pneumatic squeezer a must
have or
>a nice to have?How much of a time saver is a pneumatic squeezer? He has
>dozens of them in his shop with all sorts of yoke sizes. They range in
price
>from $300-$350. I still have lot's of tools to buy as well as a "tail"
to
>order.
>
>For others who are in the "start-up" mode , Jerry offers 3 tool kits
and he
>has a large pile of everything in his shop (including a nearly complete
>Skybolt ). I first heard of this guy from this list and I am lucky
enough
>to be almost next door to him.
>
>Rob Baxter
>Forest Ont.
>gearing up
>
>
>
>
> List Subscription: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
> List Support Contributions:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | THEZING3(at)aol.com |
can you please give the phone number for action tool
Regards
stan z
"THEZING3(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Flop tube: which tank? |
Last week there was a discussion about which tank to put the flp tube in.
The general consensous was that on the -6 it was best in the right tank to
help offset the pilots weight with fuel when solo. In the tandem seaters
no one came up with a preference.
One lister said he put his in the right. Plans to take off on the left
tank then switch to the right for aerobatics, leaving enough in the left to
return. I believe this person is on the right track, that is, have a plan.
After a bit of thought, it became apparent to me that the flop tube
location should be determined by _your_ fuel management technique. For
example, if you always take off on the left tank and switch to the right
after level off, put the flop tube in the right tank. If you always take
off on the left tank and leave it there for an hour, put the flop tube in
the left tank, you will still be feeding from that tank when you get to
your acro practice area.
The bottom line, always manage your fuel the same way and the chances of
running dry are minimized. The location of your flop tube should take
advantage of your standard procedures to ensure you are always on the
inverted tank when you enter the practice area and do your clearing turns
(I always found a nice big, slow barrell roll to be an excellent clearing
turn, safety check)
Scott A. Jordan
80331
mounting tanks
Fuselage on order
________________________________________________________________________________
Bernie;
I agree with you regarding the drill press. I am of the opinion that it is
by far a more desirable than the p.s.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
>joy and will reduce the building time. A small drill press is a necessity
in
>my book, nothing fancy.
>
>Bernie Kerr, 6A systems and engine mounting, SE FLA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ian Kerr <ikerr(at)macromedia.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits (long) |
Mark,
What's a comfortable minimum landing distance for a rocket? Congratulations
on the QB, by the way.
thanks,
Ian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Belt |
>The Alternator belt seems to be the correct width for the Alt pully,
>but
>too wide for the Ring Gear. There is a light coating of " Rubber dust"
>on and around the engine and You can see where the Ring Gear is eating
>away at the upper sides of the belt. I'm using a Gates automotive
>belt per Van's recomendation. Should I just let it "wear in" or
>is there a better way?
>
Belts are available in different width sizes as well as length, but I
would first check to be sure that the 2 pullys are exactly in line with
each other. A lot of rubber dust is definently not normal (especialy an
a small # of hours) and you should not ignore it.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Riveting - New Question (really!) |
>In 1995, there were postings about applying proseal, clecoing, letting
>the proseal cure, and then riveting the tanks. (Grumman Procedure)
>
>Is there anyone on the list who has done this, and if so, how did it
>go?
>
I am coming in to this post kind of late, but I wanted to add to other's
post's.
This would not be a good idea to do for the following reason.
The only reason that sealant is used on the interior ribs of the tank is
to seal the rivet holes that attach the skin to the ribs. Considering
the amount of sealant that many builders use in the ribs I sometimes get
the idea that they think they are sealing off each rib bay from each
other.
If you let the sealant harden before putting in the rivets it would be
much more likely that you would have leaks.
Also clecos don't have nearly the pressure required to squeeze out the
excess sealant from between parts (even rivets don't if you way over do
it with the amount of sealant used.
If this doesn't happen, the clearances involved can add up to enough
that it would make the tank more difficult to reinstall, or possibly make
an RV-8(A) tank impossible to install all together.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)miami.gdi.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop tube: which tank? |
Hi listers,
I've been watching this thread with my brain on autopilot till this
evening. I've noted that most people seem to install the flop tube in
the left tank. I suggest the following reason for choosing the left
side.
Most airport traffic patterns are left turn. That means that using the
right tank (non floptube) on takeoff and landing insures that whatever
fuel is in the right tank will roll inward toward the fuel pickup in a
left turn.
Van has stated that a flop tube style tank can not be relied on to have
as much useable fuel as a standard tank. Installing a flop tube in the
right tank may someday "bite you" on base to final when your fuel
management has been less than "steller" :-) (Who? me?)
Charlie Kuss
RV8 installing T-812 brackets
Boca Raton, Fl.
Scott A. Jordan wrote:
> Last week there was a discussion about which tank to put the flp tube in.
> The general consensous was that on the -6 it was best in the right tank to
> help offset the pilots weight with fuel when solo. In the tandem seaters
> no one came up with a preference.
>
> One lister said he put his in the right. Plans to take off on the left
> tank then switch to the right for aerobatics, leaving enough in the left to
> return. I believe this person is on the right track, that is, have a plan.
snipped
> The bottom line, always manage your fuel the same way and the chances of
> running dry are minimized. snipped
> Scott A. Jordan
________________________________________________________________________________
I have just finished the initial installation of my RV6A wing skins and need
advice. The skins all line up with the ribs but using the main spar flange 1"
spar guide line my top (and maybe the bottom also, don't know yet) skin botton
spar holes are about 1/8th inch from the bottom spar edge. To raise the main
skins to center the bottom spar holes I will have to go above the main spar
flange 1" guide line about 1/8th of an inch. Has any else had this problem
and if so what did you do?
Thanks
Rollie
RV6A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop tube: which tank? |
> Most airport traffic patterns are left turn. That means that using the
> right tank (non floptube) on takeoff and landing insures that whatever
> fuel is in the right tank will roll inward toward the fuel pickup in a
> left turn.
Only true if you aren't making coordinated turns. The fuel doesn't know
that you are turning if you keep the ball centered, as one normally should.
This is particularly important when turning at low altitudes, as
uncoordinated flight + g loading can cause a spin.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>
>They can be bought for quite a bit less than an O-320 but there is one
>hidden problem with this apparent cost savings.
>
>Because the O-290 is some what an orphan engine nowadays, some parts
>(like pistons, rings, and valves) are quite expensive compared to even
>the O-320 or 360 prices which can very quickly eat up all of the initial
>savings if you have to do an overhaul.
>If you buy one cheap that still had some good use left it would be a
>good option for someone on a tight budget to get an RV-6(A) flying
>(though I would keep the airplane as light as possible, which would kind
>of go along with the low cost plan anyway). You can always upgrade to a
>larger engine after flying for a few years.
>
Scott is right, O-290 cylinder parts are really expensive. There is an
alternative.... VO-435 jugs will fit on a -290 case. These jugs are
available and cheap I am told. This makes a REALLY HOT engine. 10.5 to 1
compression, Hemi combustion chambers, and an engine that really likes to
wind up. I had one of these on my last airplane, and it was a 3100 rpm
Screamer! It is not a conservative engine, but neither are the auto
conversions.
The VO-435 is 260 hp at 3100 rpms. Therefore the 290 should be around 170
hp. Some adjustment for cam and induction I am sure, but still this is a
high compression hot rod engine that would be as dependable as any auto
conversion that I am aware of for alot less money than a 320 or 360.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
Rquinn1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I have just finished the initial installation of my RV6A wing skins and need
> advice. The skins all line up with the ribs but using the main spar flange 1"
> spar guide line my top (and maybe the bottom also, don't know yet) skin botton
> spar holes are about 1/8th inch from the bottom spar edge. To raise the main
> skins to center the bottom spar holes I will have to go above the main spar
> flange 1" guide line about 1/8th of an inch. Has any else had this problem
> and if so what did you do?
> Thanks
>
> Rollie
> RV6A Wings
Rollie,
The top & bottom skin/rear spar rivet lines on mine are right at the
center of the rear spar flanges. If your holes look like they will be
low, the 1" dimension on the spar flange could be too far aft. My mark
is 1" from the forward side of the spar web. It is 9/16" from the aft
edge of the spar flange(I'm giving you this dimension as a reference,
you are not supposed to measure from the aft edge of the spar flange
because of inconsistancies in the edge of the flange). I marked the
line on my spar after it was primed and before it was assembled so it
would be accurate. I was afraid if I waited until the spar was
assembled, the flange strips would make it hard to make the measurement.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple/countersink wingwalk |
--------------99F1CFCC6BDCC68A42732DE4
jerry calvert wrote:
This is good
> to hear since it usually takes me 30 minutes just to get the countersink
> adjusted!
>
Jerry,
Next time your at Oshkosh, buy yourself a couple of surplus countersink
cages. I picked up a couple last year for 5 buck a piece. Looked through
a whole box to find some smooth running bearing types and when I got
home I took them apart, cleaned them up, greased them, and now they are
like new. It is really nice to have a micro stop cage for all sizes.
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993 - Fabulous Air Box
--------------99F1CFCC6BDCC68A42732DE4
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filename="zilik.vcf"
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--------------99F1CFCC6BDCC68A42732DE4--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris\\Susie" <cmcgough(at)eck.net.au> |
I lay a ruler or any thing long and flat across the main spar on top outboard to
get a flat surface. Then put another ruler butting against it 90deg and measured
down the one inch that you need.
Another thing is to walk away for a night and come back fresh even get a mate over
tell him your problem and get fresh ideas. I once spent 4 days working out
something, a mate come over and it was solved in 10 minutes!!
By the way dont those angle brackets suck
Chris RV6 Wings
Rquinn1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have just finished the initial installation of my RV6A wing skins and need
> advice. The skins all line up with the ribs but using the main spar flange 1"
> spar guide line my top (and maybe the bottom also, don't know yet) skin botton
> spar holes are about 1/8th inch from the bottom spar edge. To raise the main
> skins to center the bottom spar holes I will have to go above the main spar
> flange 1" guide line about 1/8th of an inch. Has any else had this problem
> and if so what did you do?
> Thanks
>
> Rollie
> RV6A Wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint tanks separately? - A decision. |
| From: | "Derrick L. Aubuchon" <n184da(at)cctrap.com> |
Thanks for all the input regarding my dilemma about whether or not to
paint my fuel tanks in assembly.
After carefully weighing my options, I have decided that it would be
best, at least in my situation, to paint in assembly with the original,
steel screws. I will perform yet another, and hopefully final leak test,,
just to make sure,,, and hope that I will not have to remove them any
time soon.
Thanks again everyone!!!!
(RV-4 with some paint!!)
Derrick L. Aubuchon
n184da(at)cctrap.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Harmon Rocket II Fast-Build Kits (long) |
<< What's a comfortable minimum landing distance for a rocket?
Ian:
Thanks for your inquiry!
I don't have a good handle on that. Over a 3' fence, I can stop EASILY in
1000' (no brakes). Over a 30' set of wires, it takes 1500' or so (this with no
effort to shorten the glide or roll-out). It is very close to what an RV-4 or
-6 would use. As a matter of fact, the other ship at this airport is a -6, and
we usually turn around at about that same spot.
I have never practiced short field ops with this ship, I'm sorry to say. I
used to teach the stuff (3000 hrs or so), and I don't listen to my own advice,
I guess.
Congratulations on the QB, by the way.
Thanks! It's been a long road, but this ship is worth every minute of it.
Heck, I'm going to the CZ Rep. in the middle of Feb! It's going to freeze this
poor Texas boy....
If you need any other info, please ask.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JOHNTMEY(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 12/18/98 |
SUBJECT / FUEL CAPACITY
I'm new to list... Does anyone have experience with Van's / Johansen tip
tanks ? John Meyers Golden, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Drilling RV-8 tanks skins to bottom side of spar |
RV-Listers,
I am ready to drill my first RV-8 tank skin to the bottom side of the
spar, and have hit mental paralysis. What size should I drill the
holes? I was all ready to drill them #19, but then saw that the
instructions say to do the final drilling to #19 after riveting the
tanks together. I'm confused. Do I drill them now or later?
I see three options:
1. drill #19 now, dimple the skins, install the platenuts and C/S the
spar holes using the platenuts to guide the C/S pilot (as described
in the instructions) - has anyone had problems with this?
2. drill #30 now, use some scrap with a #30 hole clamped to the spar
to hold the pilot. After assembling the tanks put them on and final
drill to #19, install the platenuts and dimple the skin.
3. Don't drill any holes in the spar now. Do option 1 after
assembling the tanks.
I am tempted to do option 1. Are there any pitfalls that I haven't
thought of? Is there a better option?
Thanks for your advice,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuel sender wires |
<< I'm using the standard senders, and am wondering about the ground
connection. I
haven't quite decided whether to Proseal the senders on without the gaskets,
or
use the gaskets with fuelube. Either way, I'd like to avoid running an extra
ground wire if possible. Will there be enough electrical contact through the
screws to get away with this? What have other people done here? >>
With five 8-32 screws holding the sender flange to the tank and umpteen 8-32
screws holding the tank to the airframe, there's not much of a chance that you
will lose continuity to ground, so I didn't run separate straps. I sealed
mine with Permetex. All readings a-OK.
RV-6A 175.7 hrs,
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks, I found my problem. My Level was not!
________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks, I found my problem. My Level wasn't!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
>Scott is right, O-290 cylinder parts are really expensive. There is
>an
>alternative.... VO-435 jugs will fit on a -290 case. These jugs are
>available and cheap I am told. This makes a REALLY HOT engine. 10.5
>to 1
>compression, Hemi combustion chambers, and an engine that really
>likes to
>wind up. I had one of these on my last airplane, and it was a 3100
>rpm
>Screamer! It is not a conservative engine, but neither are the auto
>conversions.
>
>The VO-435 is 260 hp at 3100 rpms. Therefore the 290 should be around
>170
>hp. Some adjustment for cam and induction I am sure, but still this is
>a
>high compression hot rod engine that would be as dependable as any
>auto
>conversion that I am aware of for alot less money than a 320 or 360.
>
Hmmm...
This peaks my interest because I have considered building a super light
RV-3 with maybe a mildly hoped up engine.
I have never heard of this combination before.
Doug... do you know how available these cylinders are and at what kind of
prices?
Is the comp. ratio 10.5 to 1 using standard parts?
Come to think of it... what is a VO-435 and what airplanes was it used
in?
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
Please! when you find out, let me know also....what an IDEA!.......jollyd
smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
> >Scott is right, O-290 cylinder parts are really expensive. There is
> >an
> >alternative.... VO-435 jugs will fit on a -290 case. These jugs are
> >available and cheap I am told. This makes a REALLY HOT engine. 10.5
> >to 1
> >compression, Hemi combustion chambers, and an engine that really
> >likes to
> >wind up. I had one of these on my last airplane, and it was a 3100
> >rpm
December 11, 1998 - December 19, 1998
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ga