RV-Archive.digest.vol-gf
January 14, 1999 - January 20, 1999
Dan asked:
> Having said that, I am concerned that I not clog up the email by always
> thanking people. Is it proper form to thank each other for the info or do
> we just take it for granted because that's why we are on the list.
I've used email in large computer software companies for a dozen or so years.
Many questions are asked and answered and the thankyou is understood. When you
thank someone on the rvlist, hundreds of readers have to hit delete so it is
better to send to the individual so that only he has to hit delete. Still, I
(rarely) say thanks to someone when they have done something above and beyond
the call of duty and that means sending a few words of genuine praise too.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert van der Sanden <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
You know, this might just be the only way the spouse could get money to
bring up and put through school her kids ???
Ya'all know even if she wins she won't see but a fraction of what she is
sueing for.
I am not exactly pro-sueing but America is not exactly known for caring
of those who are left behind.
Gert
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Setrab oil cooler |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Mark (check six)
A couple of weeks ago there was a thread going about oil cooler
locations. I believe that you remarked that you would stay away from
firewall mounted installations. Where do you find room for that big 19
row Setrab behind # 4 (#6 in your case) Cyl.? Or is it mounted up front
somewhere?
Regards, Bill N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
Keep workin! There is nothing like listening to great CD music while flying
the RV.
Whenever I need a mental "cleansing" , I hop in the 6A and head for the
coast... drop down on the deck at the Ventura, Ca. pier, turn on the tunes,
and just cruise the coast line all the way to Santa Barbara... absolute
heaven!!
Walt N79WH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Eustace Bowhay wrote:
> I moved mine into the gap between the wing and the fuselage (there is a
> picture of this on page 10 of the August/96 RVator) it is completely
> enclosed in this area with just a short peice of hose protruding through
> the lower fairing .
Eustace,
I have admired the photo of your gascolator installation for a long time. What
brand/model is it. Most of the colators I have seen seem to be much larger
than the one on the photo.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993
Pine Junction, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Van Artsdalen <scott_rv4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Sport Power |
I requested a quotation from Aero Sport Power. I have not purchased
any products from them and do not necessarily endorse ASP. I have
included the quote in case anyone is curious:
Quote for Lycoming O-320 Series Engine for Experimental Aircraft
Overhauled cylinders, new Slick magnetos, harness, new spark plugs,
lite weight starter, lite weight internally regulated 40 amp
alternator, carburetor, intercylinder baffles, ring gear, vacuum pump
adapter housing and oil screen housing
Fixed pitch Outright: $12,900 US
Constant Speed Outright: $13,500 US
Options:
New vacuum pump $370
Lasar Electronic Ignition $1300
Spin on oil filter $260
Slick hi-voltage starter module $370
New cylinders (per set) $1000
Quoted in US funds
Crating and inhibiting included
Log book, runup sheet, parts list, list of Service Bulletins and
Airworthiness Directives implimented at time of overhaul
Deilvery: Approx. 4 to 5 months delivery from order confirmation date.
Freight collect.
Warranty: One year from start up date.
This was provided to me by Sue Gregor.
Aero Sport Power (Division of Pro Aero Engines, Inc.)
2695 Airport Drive
Kamloops, B.C. V2B 7WB
Phone: (250) 376-2955
Fax: (250) 376-1995
=
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 #1054 - Wings
"The essence of character is doing what's right
even when nobody's looking."
J.C. Watts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?) |
Brian wrote:
>
> Listers,
> I have made an unsuccessful archive search for an electronic version of
> Van's current catalog order form (page 50). The website says that it
> was created in Word 97, but it seems to be viewed in Adobe Acrobat. I
> can print the form, but cannot create a modifiable (name, address, etc)
> electronic version to fax back. I don't have ready access to an
> external fax or scanner.
> Has anyone got an Excel or Word electronic version of that order form
> that they could send me? I'd like to get started in the RV world !
> Thanks,
>
Brian,
I just type up my order as e-mail and send it to order(at)vansaircraft.com. Works
every time. I include part numbers, description and price. Don't forget add a
shipping address.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A false spar |
Chris,
... note that Rob A. is building a -6. If you are building a -6A,
you need the false spar installed to mount the main gear leg attachment
weldments. In this case, if you have limited room, and you make your false
spar in _two_ pieces, you can install one wing at a time for control
fitting, fuel line attachments and wing fairing fitting.
Many local builders have done this and managed to fit one wing
installed at a time in a standard old CA two car garage (18 to 20 ft. square).
So, -6A builders, make a two part false spar if you have limited room.
Gil (two piece false spar) Alexander
RV6A, #20710, ... prosealed on tip-up plexi last weekend
>>Should I have made the false spar with a V shape, copying the dihedral?
>>Will it fit through the side wall slots in one piece? Or can I split it &
>>join it in the center with the steel joining plates just like the two real
>>wing spars? What have other people done to make this strong enough to
>>mount the landing gear & engine etc.?
>
>
>Chris,
>
>I made the fake spar out of one straight piece, as part of a jig that holds
>the entire fuselage at landing gear (tires mounted) height and flight level
>attitude.
>
>I just mounted the landing gear and engine, and have 80 lbs. of
>counterweight on the tail. No problems at all so far (took the clecoed top
>fuse skins on and off to make sure the fuse was not bending).
>
>Rob Acker (RV-6Q, starting cowl).
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
Fellow Listers and RV-4 experts:
Two questions:
1) Is a rear seat heat installation a "requirement" for cold weather ops (I
live in Wisconsin and it gets seriously cold).
2) I am installing a 0-360 with a C/S prop. Should the battery be located
in the baggage compartment? (sounds like a big deal to do this).
Thanks,
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
>
>You know, this might just be the only way the spouse could get money to
>bring up and put through school her kids ???
>
>Ya'all know even if she wins she won't see but a fraction of what she is
>sueing for.
>
>I am not exactly pro-sueing but America is not exactly known for caring
>of those who are left behind.
>
>Gert
>
I have to respond to this idea. John Morgan is/was responsible for
his wife and childrens support. If he cared so little for them that
he did not have sufficient insurance to insure their continued
lifestyle then that was his choice.
Van's aircraft has no obligation to support John Morgans family. That
sounds harsh and it is harsh but that is what life is. You are
responsible for yourself and whoever else you feel responsible for.
Morgan was an employee of Van's Aircraft and crashed the company
aircraft while in the employ of Van's Aircraft. Tests on the wings of
an aircraft built in the same manner as the crashed aircraft proved
they were designed adequately for the purpose.
Instead of his widow sueing Van's maybe Van should be sueing her for
the value of the aircraft plus any moneys lost because of the accident
caused by her husbands careless and incompetent flight skills. That
suit makes as much sense as her suit.
Face it, folks, no one will get out of this life alive. You can get
killed crossing the street or falling out of bed. Frankly, it pisses
me off whenever an individual sues for damages because of actions
taken by that individual causing the accident. This is a prime
example of that type of accident.
Now, let's just sit back and wait for Van's response to this suit. If
he needs our help he can ask for it. I, for one, even though I've
sold my plane would be willing to contribute to his defense fund. I
plan to build again, someday. I hope that Van's Aircraft will have
that 4 seater RV-12 available at that time.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Slightly oversized bolts |
Is there a such thing as slightly oversized bolts? I used a brad point bit
to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized the hole very
slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is, but he hasn't
seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's making me nervous.
The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of the 3 holes I
drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me? I'm going to try
using a high strength "close tolerance" bolt, and see if that takes up the
slack. A TC also told me I could use JB weld to fill the slack, by putting a
release agent on the bolt and letting the JB fill in around it and dry in
the hole. Like I said, it is a very minor oversize, but it's in a critical
area. Drilling to the next bolt size will probably compromise edge distance.
Any thoughts?
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
Let me second the motion for a Mini-Disc player. First off, they're smaller
than standard CDs (both the players and the discs themselves). Second, unlike
standard CDs, they're rerecordable (thousands of times) and erasable, just
like the old cassette tapes. So you can select and record your own program,
eg. Elton John's "Funeral for a Friend" for take off music, Gary Wright's
"Dream Weaver" while doing consecutive barrel rolls, and "Born to be Wild"
while giving your buddy pipper burns during an ACM fight. CD quality sound,
any song instantly selectable, all in a tidy, lightweight package. Highly
recommended.
Doug Seward, -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
I have a fancy edge forming tool from Cleveland, but I can't seem to get a
good edge. I tried it on the rudder leading edge, and I got a wavy edge.
Tried again on the right elevator, and got more wavy edges. What am I
doing wrong?
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q starting left elevator
Issaquah,WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
"Re: RV-List: Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?)" (Jan 14,
8:32pm)
| Subject: | Re: Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?) |
>--------------
>>
>> Listers,
>> I have made an unsuccessful archive search for an electronic version of
>> Van's current catalog order form (page 50). The website says that it
>> was created in Word 97, but it seems to be viewed in Adobe Acrobat. I
>> can print the form, but cannot create a modifiable (name, address, etc)
>> electronic version to fax back. I don't have ready access to an
>> external fax or scanner.
>> Has anyone got an Excel or Word electronic version of that order form
>> that they could send me? I'd like to get started in the RV world !
>> Thanks,
>>
>
>Brian,
>
>I just type up my order as e-mail and send it to order(at)vansaircraft.com. Works
>every time. I include part numbers, description and price. Don't forget add a
>shipping address.
>
>Gary Zilik
>--------------
I would have to echo Gary's comment. Van's has been *great* about processing
their email orders. Just send them the part numbers, quanity, description,
*plans number*, how you want to pay (for example I always say 'use my credit
card number on file'), and your shipping address. The stuff shows up in
a few days. Damn, I love this Internet thing! :-)
Best Regards,
Matt Dralle
RV-4
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gannon, Terry" <Gannont(at)Fracmaster.com> |
| Subject: | Tip for Keeping Up With RV-List Volume |
Listers - just a tip for those of you that might be using Microsoft Outlook
as your mail tool;
1. Create a View of your Inbox that looks for 'RV-List' in the Subject
field. You may also want to create a View that filters OUT everything that
contains 'RV-List' so that you can flip between your RV-List activities and
all that other, less important stuff that you do.
2. Modify your new view, so that messages are Grouped By Subject.
Outlook seems to be smart enough to ignore all the 'Re:' and other stuff
that usually ends up surrounding the subject, and groups them neatly into
one line - sort of like a newsgroup, without all the pornography
3. Finally, modify the view one more time so that messages are sorted
by Create Date
If you're interested in subject, double-click on it, and it shows all the
messages related to that subject in the order they were received. If you're
not interested, you can delete the subject, and all associated messages are
delete right along with it. Outlook also does you the favor of displaying
in bold, any Subject for which new messages have arrived.
One other thing that I do, when I see something that I want to incorporate
into my own project, I drag the message to the Tasks folder, and add the
category 'RV Related'. It automatically adds it to my list of things to do.
Quite the timesaver.
If the above explanation does not suffice, email me off list, and I'll send
you some screen shots that you should help. I'm sure other mail readers
have similar capabilities if you dig around for them.
Terry ("No Comment On The Lawsuit") in Calgary
S/N 24414
RV-6 Flaps
http://members.home.net/gannont
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Canadian RV builders |
I have started building and RV-6A and have completed the empennage kit and have
now progressed to the left wing.
Just for an additional project I am building a database of all Canadian RV
builders and owners. I would appreciate if you could email me any of the
following information:
Name
Address
City
Province
Phone
Fax
email
plane type
Registration number
RV serial number
Add yourself or any one you know of to this list.
After I build the list I can email out a copy if any one is interested.
My email address is gerric(at)agt.net
Thank you
Gerald Richardson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
"Michael J. Robbins" wrote:
>
>
> I have a fancy edge forming tool from Cleveland, but I can't seem to get a
> good edge. I tried it on the rudder leading edge, and I got a wavy edge.
> Tried again on the right elevator, and got more wavy edges. What am I
> doing wrong?
>
> Mike Robbins
> RV-8Q starting left elevator
> Issaquah,WA
Mike, I have used the edge forming tool from Cleaveland's and found it
to work very well. Your problems may be due to having the tool adjusted
too tight. It should be very easy to pull along the edge of the skin;
Too tight and it is very difficult or impossible to pull and can easily
run off the edge of the material.
Try barely tightening the tool so you can easily pull it and then make a
couple more passes with it to finish the formed edge.
Hope this helps. There is a review of this tool on my site that may be
helpful to you:
http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6/formtool.html
Sam Buchanan (cowl whipped into submission!)
"The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
Doug,
I wont comment on the battery location. I will tell you that unless
you come up with some kind of elaborate plan to get heat to the passenger they
will suffer this time of year. The person up front tends to stay nice and
comfortable but the heat has a little trouble making it to the rear. Im sure
some have come up with ideas to make it more comfortable in the rear, but my
wife will tell you its not warm enough in back of ours. I hear the same
complaints from other wives we fly with also. I would try harder to fix this
problem but I get to fly the airplane alone all winter. ;)
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
<< I have a fancy edge forming tool from Cleveland, but I can't seem to get a
good edge. I tried it on the rudder leading edge, and I got a wavy edge.
Tried again on the right elevator, and got more wavy edges. What am I
doing wrong? >>
It doesn't work real well on very thin sheets. Also, don't try to bend it too
much or go more than one pass.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 rear heat |
>1) Is a rear seat heat installation a "requirement" for cold weather ops (I
>live in Wisconsin and it gets seriously cold).
IMHO yes. In the past, returning from OSH (relegated to the rear seat) I
have requested heat. Fortunately, the RV-4 was so equiped. That was in
August. Then again, I think room temperature should be 75 degrees.
The RV-4 I fly currently has both front and rear heat, and both are
adjustable from cold to hot. It is very nice and adds to the comfort
level. I have photos of the installation that I will someday put on-line.
Have a great day,
~Jeremy
jwb(at)europa.com I speak for myself, and absolutely no one else.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Catalog Order Form (electronic version?) |
>>> was created in Word 97, but it seems to be viewed in Adobe Acrobat. I
---
>>I just type up my order as e-mail and send it to order(at)vansaircraft.com.
FYI, the order form for the catalog is available in both Word 97 and
Acrobat. Acrobat version is under Accessories Catalog section, Word 97
version is under Downloads section. They were both really meant to be
printed and either faxed or snail mailed, but you could fairly easily
modify the Word 97 version and faxmodem it in.
Soon (hopefully), there will be Web based ordering for catalog items and
parts (hopefully), so you can click the item(s) you want, and securely send
them in. Should be easy and quick to use.
Have a great day,
~Jeremy
jwb(at)europa.com These are my own opinions. No one else would want them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
No I do not think you can find oversize bolts Moe. You might try the fit of
different AN bolts--there is a variance. You will probably find the close
tolerence to be even a looser fit. Forget the JB weld!. Most likely you do not
have a problem worth the effort to repair. You should be able to go up a size
but then what if you screw up again. When drilling important holes like these
drill to a size --well for example you want a .250 hole for a !/4 diameter
bolt which is in actuallity going to be something like .2960 or such. Drill
the hole working up several steps to .2940 and then ream with a chucking
reamer to .2965. This will provide a tight and true fit to the bolt. I just
made these numbers up without my trusty Machinery Guide but they illustrate
the point. Never drill to size on the first pass for an important attach
point. Always ream to size for proper fit--loose, interference, tight,
etc--all different tolerences. Never drill a hole for a 1/4 inch bolt with a
1/4 inch bit--again just an example as this applies to all bolt fits. You
might be able to have a thin wall bushing turned for you, ream up for an
interference fit on the bushing and heat the part and shrink the bushing and
press it in. After it cools ream for the proper fit on the bolt. Use Locktite
for bushings when you press it in. This would likely be a permenant repair and
would result in minimal material loss or just leave it alone for now and save
the repair for later after you got several hundred hours on her--I bet it will
be OK. JR, A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | Bad Rivet on Rear Spar |
Sylvain-
I'm building a RV-3, but my suggestion is:
1. verify that you have sufficient edge distance remaining.
2. make sure that you do not have any sharp edges within the hole itself.
3. put in a NAS close tolerance(1303, 1603, 1103. . .if I remember
correctly) size 3/16 bolt with suggested nut (AN364 I think).
4. make sure you torque to proper torque.
5. finally, assemble so that you can access the area (through a possible
added inspection hole, etc.), and check for movement in the hole by the bolt
during periodic or annual inspections.
Best suggestion: take measurements of all your edge distances, estimated
amount of "wobble," etc., draw/sketch up a drawing and fax to Vans, Attn:
Andy Hanna, Engineer.
I slightly elongated one hole on my -3 spar, while drilling out the 1/8"
rivet/bit size to a 3/16" hole. I cleaned it up with the 3/16 bit, but had
a elongation from the 1/8" hole. I measured, and sent the drawing to Andy,
and the above response is what he told me (with the exception of the NAS
bolt over the AN. .. I get a tighter fit with the NAS, but you don't have to
have the higher tensile strength.
Help?
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
Socorro, NM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sylvain Duford
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 6:11 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Bad Rivet on Rear Spar
>
>
> Hello Listers:
>
> I screwed-up the bottom rivet on the inboard rib/rear spar, TWICE. So
> now I have a badly elongated hole on the rib that the -4 shop head
> doesn't completely cover.
>
> My question is, should I:
>
> A: leave it alone
> B: use a -5 rivet
> C: put in an AN3 bolt
> D: ?????
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sylvain
>
> RV-8 #47, Right Wing
>
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
Not if you shut off the comm when not required... If you're staying
with Center for some reason, then you're likely to be too busy to enjoy
the music anyway. But if you're just tooling along VFR, you don't need
the radio.
PatK - RV-6A
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>
> So do people use this mostly for passenger entertainment? There is
> usually so much chatter on today's crowded frequencies that I would
> think the constantly interuptted tunes wouldn't be enjoyable. No?
>
> -Larry, RV-8 emp.
>
> ---Rvator97(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > With a PS intercom, the music mutes when you receive or transmit.
> Works great.
> >
> > Walt
> > RV-6A 112 hours
> >
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =
>
> Larry Bowen
> larry(at)bowen.com
> http://larry.bowen.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | no hassel financing |
I've got two companies that have financed my tools AND my
emp kit, even the extra HS skeleton that I "practiced" on.
No questions asked. One is Mastercard, the other is Visa.
Best of all, they'll finance it without taking a security
interest in your RV! So, when I file for bankr... I'd
better shut up. Those attorneys might turn this over to
Visa and they'll cut my credit off. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing ) |
Jim,
I agree with everything you've posted below and would like to add some
other observations as well. First, my original airworthiness certificate
indicates that my engine is a FWSTUCKLEN O-320D1A. The FAA does not know
exactly WHAT that engine is comprised of. In my case, they never really
asked for anything other than their simple, non-descriptive documentation
that I provided to them. There is no listing of what parts the engine was
built up from. No record of the type of ignition system, alternator,
starter, etc. So from the FAA's standpoint, and the resultant insurance
coverage position, there is no real data to support the basis of the
original airworthiness certificate. I would venture to say that this is the
case for most "Experimental" engine installations.
Second, if one does change items on his/her "Experimental" aircraft
beyond that which is listed in the original airworthiness documentation, you
are looking for trouble. Nothing happens to you until there an incident
occurs, then, at the FAA's discretion, they can come after you. (I've known
them to come after you for infractions based solely on the fact that you DO
have insurance...), If they do, chances are your insurance company will
also give you grief.
For the most part, the FAA does look the other way. If we, "Experimental
Aircraft Builders/Pilots", continue to self discipline ourselves through
sound building & mantaience practices, the FAA will have little to do with
us..
So keep this communications medium alive with meaningful discussions
gents......
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JimNolan [SMTP:JimNolan(at)kconline.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 8:30 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing )
>
>
> Guys,
> This thread on Engine Data Plates, The FAA and The Insurance company
> is interesting. Especially since I've been there and I've done that. The
> FAA's
> position is that anything found on the engine that isn't certified for
> that engine and
> wasn't serviced by an A&P means the engine has been reconfigured from what
> Lycoming originally intended to be a certified engine. That being the
> case, if you
> alter that engine, you have canceled your airworthiness certificate. When
> you
> do that, your insurance company is no longer obligated to assume damages
> if you have an accident.
> When I put 160 hp cylinders on an 0-320 E3D, that nullified my
> airworthiness
> certificate. Lycoming didn't make a 160 hp 0-320 E3D. To keep it legal I
> would
> have had to buy an STC and have a A&P overhaul my engine.
> All the people that think an insurance company will pay up on a claim
> that
> they can get out of paying. RAISE YOUR HAND
> There's a right way and a wrong way to go about things. Hashing this
> out on
> the RV list will get you nothing but trouble if you depend on Joe Blows
> information
> to decide your airplanes airworthiness condition.
> In my case I had to send the FAA all the documentation on the parts I
> used
> in the engine overhaul, all their releases and they still called ECI to
> validate
> a discrepancy in the paperwork. They wanted to make sure what I had done
> when I overhauled this engine was proper. After that, they issued me a new
> test period and a new airworthiness certificate. Plus, I had to remove my
> data plate.
> The FAA has a list of every nut, bolt and cotter pin, in or around my
> airplane.
> I sent the same information to my insurance company for review also.
> Avemco says, as long as the FAA deems my aircraft airworthy and I
> haven't
> done anything to cause it to lose it's airworthness certificate, it's
> insured.
> If you have doubts about your airplanes considered airworthiness by
> the FAA
> or your insurance company, now is the time to correct that. Sure it takes
> time
> and effort to get this done. But if something does happen you don't want
> to end
> up like the guy in California that crashed his airplane and found out he
> didn't
> have insurance because of a change he had made to his fuel line.
>
> Sorry for the long post
> Jim Nolan
> N444JN
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Slightly oversized bolts |
Moe,
I have heard of people reaming the hole and inserting a bushing with an
outside diameter equal to the enlarged hole and the inside diameter equal to
the AN3 (or whatever) bolt you are using. I have to admit I don't know how
edge distance plays into this.
I have had my HS clamped to the fuselage of my RV-6A for a week now and just
keep finding excuses not to drill those holes. You can't make omelets
without breaking the eggs, but ain't it a bear when something goes wrong?
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----I used a brad point bit
to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized
the hole very
slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is,
but he hasn't
seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's
making me nervous.
The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of
the 3 holes I
drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Cy,
All true, but what do the operating limitations say? Mine say something
like "in the scope and intent of Part 43"....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cy Galley [SMTP:cgalley(at)accessus.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:56 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight testing
>
>
> Cy:
> This is very clear cut, anyone or anything can work on an experimental
> aircraft. There are NO I repeat NO requirements for working on and
> signing off an experimental aircraft, your dog can do it. Reference FAR
> Part 43.1(b) "This part does not apply to any aircraft for which an
> experimental airworthiness certificate has been issued...."
> The amateur-built repairman certificate is only, I repeat ONLY, for
> signing off an annual condition inspection. Further the only reason a
> repairman certificate or an A&P certificate is needed for the annual
> condition inspection is because the operating limitations of the
> aircraft requires it. It is not a requirement of the FAR's as Part 43
> does not apply. Many people forget that for experimental aircraft most
> of the rules for maintaining and operating the aircraft come from the
> "operating limitations" not the FAR's. The operating limitations are
> part of the airworthiness certificate and the airworthiness of the
> aircraft is dependant on compliance with the operating limitations. The
> ability for the FAA to issue operating limitations come from FAR Part
> 91.319(e).
> Earl Lawrence
> EAA
>
> PS yes, you can post this answer.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
<< I will tell you that unless
you come up with some kind of elaborate plan to get heat to the passenger
they
will suffer this time of year.
It's not elaborate! It's easy!
The person up front tends to stay nice and
comfortable but the heat has a little trouble making it to the rear. Im sure
some have come up with ideas to make it more comfortable in the rear, but my
wife will tell you its not warm enough in back of ours. I hear the same
complaints from other wives we fly with also. I would try harder to fix this
problem but I get to fly the airplane alone all winter. ;)
Ryan Bendure Co. >>
Ryan, you are going to really upset Mo if she finds out what you have said!
Using the underwing inlet in addition to a good heat muff will work very good.
Think a little bit about the plumbing, and you will see. I suppose I could
explain a bit further, but it's so ez to figure out...I will answer off-list
inquiries, if an archive search doesn't turn up my previous posts on this
matter.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
<< 2) I am installing a 0-360 with a C/S prop. Should the battery be located
in the baggage compartment? (sounds like a big deal to do this). >>
Hmmmmmm.....maybe Electric Bob can help with this one: I'd say you should
check the CG with two 17AH batts: one in front, one in back (using a tray like
the Rocket uses). The -4 is a bit nose heavy with your engine/prop combo...
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DRAGRRV6(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
Moe,
I had a similar problem with wallowed out holes that were drilled to size
"D" for holding the VS ,tail spring, and the rear bulkhead together.Plans call
for three holes in this assembly and it was suggested to me that there is
plenty of room for two more holes, so that is what I did and left the other
holes as they were. Five bolt holes instead of three.
Jim Callender
RV-6 Skinning fuselage Bottom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: joseph.wiza <planejoe(at)flnet.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 6:13 PM
>
>I decided not to use the F682 channel console and used the horizontal under
>inst panel mount for throttle, prop, mixture, and carb heat. > Edited
>
>RV6A
>Planejoe/finish kit
>
Joe,
I am working on this area now. I have fashioned a Z-channel 1 1/2 inches
high that hangs below the instrument panel bottom edge with the face 1/2
inch forward of the panel. I laid out carb heat, throttle, prop and mixture
on 2 1/2 inch centers (same as my Skyhawk, minus prop). I find that with
stick side deflections of + or - 30 degrees the normal length sticks will
hit the controls. If I move carb heat above the Z-channel it helps a
little. I'd like to keep all cables on the same panel, however.
On my neighbor's 6A the sticks were shortened about 2 3/4 inches to get
around that problem. Neither she nor her husband mind the shorter sticks,
even for acro.
I was wondering if/how you handled the stick interference problem.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Bad Rivet on Rear Spar |
Sylvain,
You need to go to the next size rivet up or go 1/4 inch away and drill
another hole to put in a -4 rivet. If it's on one of the thin plates you
have enough room to move over and put in another rivet.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: Sylvain Duford [mailto:sduford(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 8:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: Bad Rivet on Rear Spar
Hello Listers:
I screwed-up the bottom rivet on the inboard rib/rear spar, TWICE. So
now I have a badly elongated hole on the rib that the -4 shop head
doesn't completely cover.
My question is, should I:
A: leave it alone
B: use a -5 rivet
C: put in an AN3 bolt
D: ?????
Thanks,
Sylvain
RV-8 #47, Right Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
You can also use "red" loctite which will fill up to 0.007 which is a lot.
Normal AN bolts are about 0.003 to .005 under. You can get precision ground
bolts that are dead on. Measure your bolts, by selection you can get then
to about .002 under minimum.
The thing I would worry about... After fastening on the VS, does it move.
Can you wiggle it?
Builders become paranoid about the "what if" that never happens.
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>
>Is there a such thing as slightly oversized bolts? I used a brad point bit
>to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized the hole very
>slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is, but he hasn't
>seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's making me nervous.
>The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of the 3 holes I
>drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me? I'm going to try
>using a high strength "close tolerance" bolt, and see if that takes up the
>slack. A TC also told me I could use JB weld to fill the slack, by putting
a
>release agent on the bolt and letting the JB fill in around it and dry in
>the hole. Like I said, it is a very minor oversize, but it's in a critical
>area. Drilling to the next bolt size will probably compromise edge
distance.
>Any thoughts?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 Page at:
>http://tabshred.com/moe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
If you have bolts that you think are critical, the BEST way is NOT to drill
to size. Always drill undersize and then use a reamer of the proper size.
Remember even then unless you you precision bolts, you will have at least
0.002 clearance and most likely 0.003 to 0.005 of clearance. You will have
to press the precision bolts in. The small clearance is to make it possible
to insert the bolt easily. It also makes it possible to use a bolt as a
pivot. If you use precision bolts as pivots, us then have to ream oversize
for running clearance.
A 1/4" bolt is NOT 0.025.....!!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 11:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>
>Is there a such thing as slightly oversized bolts? I used a brad point bit
>to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized the hole very
>slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is, but he hasn't
>seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's making me nervous.
>The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of the 3 holes I
>drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me? I'm going to try
>using a high strength "close tolerance" bolt, and see if that takes up the
>slack. A TC also told me I could use JB weld to fill the slack, by putting
a
>release agent on the bolt and letting the JB fill in around it and dry in
>the hole. Like I said, it is a very minor oversize, but it's in a critical
>area. Drilling to the next bolt size will probably compromise edge
distance.
>Any thoughts?
>
>Moe Colontonio
>moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
>Check out my RV-8 Page at:
>http://tabshred.com/moe
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Slightly oversized bolts |
Moe,
How about drilling it out to a #4 bolt? Next time, drill a pilot hole
first and use a high speed chisel point drill.
Bob
RV8#423
-----Original Message-----I used a brad point bit
to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized
the hole very
slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is,
but he hasn't
seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's
making me nervous.
The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of
the 3 holes I
drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Slightly oversized bolts |
>I also screwed up calling a 1/4" 0.0250 when it should be 0.250. You can
>always make the hole bigger. In the message below I think that the 0.2940
>should be 0.2490 as the first dimension is approaching 5/16" The idea of
>underdrilling is an old tool makers trick. Doing the assembly and then
>reaming to size yields the best custom fit.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com <JRWillJR(at)aol.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 3:24 AM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>
>
>>
>>No I do not think you can find oversize bolts Moe. You might try the fit
of
>>different AN bolts--there is a variance. You will probably find the close
>>tolerence to be even a looser fit. Forget the JB weld!. Most likely you do
>not
>>have a problem worth the effort to repair. You should be able to go up a
>size
>>but then what if you screw up again. When drilling important holes like
>these
>>drill to a size --well for example you want a .250 hole for a !/4 diameter
>>bolt which is in actuallity going to be something like .2960 or such.
Drill
>>the hole working up several steps to .2940 and then ream with a chucking
>>reamer to .2965. This will provide a tight and true fit to the bolt. I
just
>>made these numbers up without my trusty Machinery Guide but they
illustrate
>>the point. Never drill to size on the first pass for an important attach
>>point. Always ream to size for proper fit--loose, interference, tight,
>>etc--all different tolerences. Never drill a hole for a 1/4 inch bolt with
>a
>>1/4 inch bit--again just an example as this applies to all bolt fits. You
>>might be able to have a thin wall bushing turned for you, ream up for an
>>interference fit on the bushing and heat the part and shrink the bushing
>and
>>press it in. After it cools ream for the proper fit on the bolt. Use
>Locktite
>>for bushings when you press it in. This would likely be a permenant repair
>and
>>would result in minimal material loss or just leave it alone for now and
>save
>>the repair for later after you got several hundred hours on her--I bet it
>will
>>be OK. JR, A&P
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com> |
| Subject: | Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing ) |
Fred,
As I understand it, you can change items but must notify the FAA first and
get their OK. Something like 337's but not the using the forms, right?
Bob
RV8#423 Building wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Comfort <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
Mike Wills wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Do these holes have to be round?
> >
> >Phil at Litchfield, IL
> >
> Phil,
> I wonder the same thing. No round inlets on Nemesis' cowl and it appears
> that it is a fairly low drag design! I wonder if the round inlets are
> driven by expectation/marketing forces as much as anything. Any
> aerodynamics types out there? If so is there any reference material that
> you could recommend on cooling system/cowl design that is understandable by
> the average guy?
>
> Mike Wills
> RV-4 fuse out of the jig
> willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
Gentlemen: I offer some comments on the above subject.
The move to round cowl inlets set well forward seems to be based on
research done at Mississippi State in the 1970's and reported at the
SAE's Business Aircraft Meeting in 1977. The paper might be available
from (I don't know for sure) the SAE or from the NTIS (National
Technical Information Service. The program was directed by S.J. Miley.
The testing was done on a Piper PA-41P and investigated the factory
cooling system along with three other configurations of round inlets
which might be described as; large, small, located forward and located
aft. Other configurations were not investigated, at least in this
program. The report, using about 20% of the data collected, was
expected to be followed by another report based on this data and other
testing yet to be done. As best I can determine the additional testing
was not done and no other report was prepared. Funding apparently was
the problem. I don't know where the unused data is located or whether
someone has prepared and used it for their own purposes.
Certain principles emerged and the conclusion was that the "large" round
inlet placed furthest forward was the best of those tested. Since no
other configurations were tested one cannot conclude that round is best
although intuition (and perhaps data of which I am unaware) would tend
to make one think so. There was no work done on the effects of plenum
volume and exit configuration; that was planned for the second phase.
It would be interesting to know what the industry has done in this area.
I understand that when Commander was reworking their single engine
aircraft for new production they did considerable work on the cooling
system and did not use round inlets.
A discussion on this subject could be interesting to many people and
exchange of information on methods and sources would be desireable. The
report described above was a starting point and by no means definitive.
This kind of work is laborious and hence, expensive and not many people
undertake it in a rigorous way.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
N.B. Please note that the above arises from my assumption that the
round inlet as seen now started with the Miley paper. There may be more
to it than that. GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Slightly oversized bolts |
Moe and others,
I agree with everything JR says. He is certainly more experienced than
I am. I would, however, add a word of caution. A reamer cuts on the
side; a drill bit only cuts on the end. Make sure you have good
alignment, complete control of the reamer, and, if necessary, ream by
hand rather than using a drill. In a couple of tight places on awkward
shaped parts, I have really screwed up a hole with a reamer.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, fuselage
Columbia, SC
No I do not think you can find oversize bolts Moe. You
might try the fit of
different AN bolts--there is a variance. You will
probably find the close
tolerence to be even a looser fit. Forget the JB weld!.
Most likely you do not
have a problem worth the effort to repair. You should be
able to go up a size
but then what if you screw up again. When drilling
important holes like these
drill to a size --well for example you want a .250 hole
for a !/4 diameter
bolt which is in actuallity going to be something like
.2960 or such. Drill
the hole working up several steps to .2940 and then ream
with a chucking
reamer to .2965. This will provide a tight and true fit
to the bolt. I just
made these numbers up without my trusty Machinery Guide
but they illustrate
the point. Never drill to size on the first pass for an
important attach
point. Always ream to size for proper fit--loose,
interference, tight,
etc--all different tolerences. Never drill a hole for a
1/4 inch bolt with a
1/4 inch bit--again just an example as this applies to
all bolt fits. You
might be able to have a thin wall bushing turned for
you, ream up for an
interference fit on the bushing and heat the part and
shrink the bushing and
press it in. After it cools ream for the proper fit on
the bolt. Use Locktite
for bushings when you press it in. This would likely be
a permenant repair and
would result in minimal material loss or just leave it
alone for now and save
the repair for later after you got several hundred hours
on her--I bet it will
be OK. JR, A&P
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gordon Comfort <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
The best way to help Van is to remain silent. Nothing that any of us
can say will be helpful.
Gordon Comfort
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing ) |
Bob,
IMHO, you are technically correct. But then again, do you really want to
tell them anything.....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DiMeo, Robert [SMTP:Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 10:33 AM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing )
>
>
>
>
> Fred,
>
> As I understand it, you can change items but must notify the FAA first
> and
> get their OK. Something like 337's but not the using the forms, right?
>
>
> Bob
> RV8#423 Building wings
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
Fellow RVer's
In answer to a couple of questions re yesterday's post the gascolator I
used was puchased from Van's part # Gas 1 and is listed in Van's
accessories catalog. I don't believe the Andair gascolator was available in
1991,looking at the spec's it seems to be a better unit and will probably
fit in the same location.
The summer 1998 Van's catalog says mounting brackets for the Gas 1 are not
available, they can be purchased from A/C Spruce P/N 10371 for around
10.00. Also easy to make.
There is no need for two gascolators. My fuel line to the engine goes from
the selector valve out through the side of the fueselage into the
gascolator then back in and along the lower left side. With the carburated
engine mounted the Facet pump low down between the rudder pedal and the
spar.
The fuel injected engine did away with the Facet pump and now have the
Weldon pump firewall mounted.
Eustace Bowhay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
It depends on the type of reamer. An adjustable reamer cuts on the sides.
A machine reamer cuts on the end. You can buy nice chucking reamers for you
hand drill that produce exactly the size you need, exactly round from an
undersized drilled unround drilled hole. (Drilling a hole produces holes
that are not round!)
Reaming a hole makes it perfectly round.
-----Origial Message-----
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>
>Moe and others,
>
>I agree with everything JR says. He is certainly more experienced than
>I am. I would, however, add a word of caution. A reamer cuts on the
>side; a drill bit only cuts on the end. Make sure you have good
>alignment, complete control of the reamer, and, if necessary, ream by
>hand rather than using a drill. In a couple of tight places on awkward
>shaped parts, I have really screwed up a hole with a reamer.
>
>Ken Harrill
>RV-6, fuselage
>Columbia, SC
>
>
> No I do not think you can find oversize bolts Moe. You
>might try the fit of
> different AN bolts--there is a variance. You will
>probably find the close
> tolerence to be even a looser fit. Forget the JB weld!.
>Most likely you do not
> have a problem worth the effort to repair. You should be
>able to go up a size
> but then what if you screw up again. When drilling
>important holes like these
> drill to a size --well for example you want a .250 hole
>for a !/4 diameter
> bolt which is in actuallity going to be something like
>.2960 or such. Drill
> the hole working up several steps to .2940 and then ream
>with a chucking
> reamer to .2965. This will provide a tight and true fit
>to the bolt. I just
> made these numbers up without my trusty Machinery Guide
>but they illustrate
> the point. Never drill to size on the first pass for an
>important attach
> point. Always ream to size for proper fit--loose,
>interference, tight,
> etc--all different tolerences. Never drill a hole for a
>1/4 inch bolt with a
> 1/4 inch bit--again just an example as this applies to
>all bolt fits. You
> might be able to have a thin wall bushing turned for
>you, ream up for an
> interference fit on the bushing and heat the part and
>shrink the bushing and
> press it in. After it cools ream for the proper fit on
>the bolt. Use Locktite
> for bushings when you press it in. This would likely be
>a permenant repair and
> would result in minimal material loss or just leave it
>alone for now and save
> the repair for later after you got several hundred hours
>on her--I bet it will
> be OK. JR, A&P
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Tucson, AZ. ONLY |
To any RV-listers in Tucson, AZ.
I have to go to Tucson on business next week, and was wondering if
there are any RV builders there who want to show off their projects and/or
drink a beer or two and talk RV building in the evening?
Please reply privately ..... I can even do an EAA Tech Counselor
inspection if anyone wants....
Gil (travelling slows down building...:
) Alexander
RV6A, #20701 ...finishing kit
EAA Technical Counselor,
EAA Chapter 40, Northridge, CA
-------------------------------------------------------
mailto:gila(at)flash.net
Gil Alexander,
Los Angeles, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing ) |
Fred,
The part about being OK until something happened and then finding out you
were in trouble was the reason I probly have the most documented RV that the
FAA has ever seen. After my RV was built and certified, I had added a Dynamic
Balancer from Mark Landoll, changed props, etc. I just didn't want to be the guy
that had to find out the hard way that ( what I think is OK in the eyes of the
FAA
and Avemco, is different than what they think ) The guy that inspected my RV
after it was built won't be the same guy that inspects my airplane after I crash
it.
You brought up a good point about having no documentation of components
when the aircraft was first inspected. What it did state on my documentation was
that I had a certified engine ( the rest was experimental ) That's the part that
I
gave considerable thought to. So if I crash the airplane and they find out I have
a uncertified dynamic balancer on my flywheel, an uncertified prop on the
end of the crank, and an uncertified starter, along with 160 hp millennium cylinders
on an
0-320E3D, will Avemco honor the policy when
the FAA deems my engine altered after it had been documented as a certified
engine to begin with. That's the part that had me concerned. So that's the part
that I took care of.
Many may think I went to extremes, but many won't replace my airplane if
I crash it either.
Thanks for your input, you brought up good points.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
>
> Jim,
. There is no listing of what parts the engine was
> built up from. No record of the type of ignition system, alternator,
> starter, etc. So from the FAA's standpoint, and the resultant insurance
> coverage position, there is no real data to support the basis of the
> original airworthiness certificate. I would venture to say that this is the
> case for most "Experimental" engine installations.
. Nothing happens to you until there an incident
> occurs, then, at the FAA's discretion, they can come after you. (I've known
> them to come after you for infractions based solely on the fact that you DO
> have insurance...), If they do, chances are your insurance company will
> also give you grief.
> For the most part, the FAA does look the other way. If we, "Experimental
> Aircraft Builders/Pilots", continue to self discipline ourselves through
> sound building & mantaience practices, the FAA will have little to do with
> us..
> So keep this communications medium alive with meaningful discussions
> gents......
>
> Fred Stucklen
> N925RV RV-6A
> E. Windsor, Ct
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
><< 2) I am installing a 0-360 with a C/S prop. Should the battery be
located
> in the baggage compartment? (sounds like a big deal to do this). >>
>
>Hmmmmmm.....maybe Electric Bob can help with this one: I'd say you should
>check the CG with two 17AH batts: one in front, one in back (using a tray
like
>the Rocket uses). The -4 is a bit nose heavy with your engine/prop combo...
If your proposed configuration leaves some doubts as to
weight and balance, I'd not install batteries until you're
ready to weigh the airplane. Make trays, dope out the
attach hardware but don't drill holes until you KNOW
where you'd like to have the weight. The very nature of
batteries (lots of lead) makes them the adjustment of
choice for optomizing the aircraft's c.g. location.
From an electrical perspective, it's no big deal to install
the batteries in various parts of the aircraft. Once
you've decided where they need to go for optimal loading
and flight performance, get in touch with me and I'll
help you scratch out the wiring.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Enough Lawsuit...this will not affect the average builder |
I agree...enough is enough! I am not an expert, but I do not believe that
the outcome of the lawsuit against Van will have any impact on the average
builder. The reason Van is getting sued is because he owns an aircraft
company and has insurance against such things. They may be able to get a
few million from his insurance. The average builder does not have this
kind of money and most layers are not interested in going after an
individual...they want the large settlements from the insurance companies.
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airworthiness ( was Flight Testing ) |
Bob,
Let me step in if you don't mind and answer that question also. You are suppose
to notify the FAA if you make any changes deemed major. Then they will decide if
and for how long you need to enter the flight testing period again. The part about
what they deem major is what you should be concerned with. And if you're concerned
you should fax them a copy of your concerns and ask for a judgement. (BTW, keep
a copy of that fax, you may need it later. )
Jim Nolan
N444JN
> Fred,
>
> As I understand it, you can change items but must notify the FAA first and
> get their OK. Something like 337's but not the using the forms, right?
>
>
> Bob
> RV8#423 Building wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts--goofed |
Yes--sorry--I meant .2490 not .2940 for a 1/4 inch bolt in my example--I
goofed--it was late. Sorry I transposed the digits. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank access cover |
Fellow Listers:
At the advice of several of the list, I have decided to remove my fuel tank
access covers which were previously sealed with the cork gaskets and
Aviation Form-A-Gasket (wings complete but not installed yet). I am going
to reseal them with ProSeal. I assume that no cork gaskets are used in this
case. Is that true? (if not, the old gaskets are actually in fine
condition... I could probably reuse them).
Doug (RV-4 fuselage)
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Enough Lawsuit...win loose or draw it will affect all builders |
In a message dated 1/15/99 12:29:32 PM Central Standard Time, jcimino(at)epix.net
writes:
> agree...enough is enough! I am not an expert, but I do not believe that
> the outcome of the lawsuit against Van will have any impact on the average
> builder. The reason Van is getting sued is because he owns an aircraft
> company and has insurance against such things. They may be able to get a
> few million from his insurance. The average builder does not have this
> kind of money and most layers are not interested in going after an
> individual...they want the large settlements from the insurance companies.
Regardless if Vans wins the law suit or not. This will affect all RV builders
as his insruance will go up so he will raise is prices. Also it will just be
that much harder for him to come out with a new RV espcially a 4 seater.
it also affects the industry as a whole if he looses since if Vans can be sued
and won against how can a little bitty brand new manufacuter of kits even get
insurance.
I own an insurance agency and I insure a lot of businesses and insurance cost
for a manufuacter sky rocket after a lawsuit regardless of the outcome of the
lawsuit.
Chris Wilcox
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
<< Using the underwing inlet in addition to a good heat muff will work very
good.
Think a little bit about the plumbing, and you will see. I suppose I could
explain a bit further, but it's so ez to figure out...I will answer off-list
inquiries, if an archive search doesn't turn up my previous posts on this
matter.
Check six!
Mark >>
Ok Mark,
Lets see what you got. I have the full dropped floors and she
complains of cold feet, when I reach back and feel them they feel like ice
cubes. I have the whole structure under the floor insulated for this reason
(no help). The dropped floors also limit my ability to route heat unless I use
the full tunnels themselves. I have thought about building a seal around the
aileron torque tubes and running heat down the center tunnel. Lets keep in
mind to that this aint Texas, it gets darn cold here at times. So I am talking
about problems when its below 35degF. I have also tried thinking up a way to
put on another muff just for the rear passenger. Of course I know If I sealed
up the cockpit a little better that would help some. Any Ideas would be of
help and Im sure there are others on the list at this stage of building that
would benefit also. P.S was just kidding about the wife, and your right she
would have put me in a head lock had she read that.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
UN-SUBSCRIBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
> to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized
> the hole very
> slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is,
> but he hasn't
> seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's
> making me nervous.
> The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of
> the 3 holes I
> drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me?
How about rivetting a doubler to whatever was drilled oversize? Then
dril the right size hole in the doubler.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
UN-SUBSCRIBE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Engine mount bolts RV6a - point which way? |
It would be easiest with the nuts on the mount side of the firewall but usual
practice is to have them aft -- does it matter here??
I seems like I have seen them with nuts in engine compartment.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Front fuel tank mounts - slotted?? |
Somewhere I saw/heard that one of the front fuel tank mount tabs should be
slotted so they would part in a crash rather than rip a hole in the fuel tank.
Was this something I dreamed up or is it for real??? And if real, which part
gets the slot or does it matter??
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
In a message dated 1/15/99 2:22:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dougweil(at)pressenter.com writes:
> At the advice of several of the list, I have decided to remove my fuel tank
> access covers which were previously sealed with the cork gaskets and
> Aviation Form-A-Gasket (wings complete but not installed yet). I am going
> to reseal them with ProSeal. I assume that no cork gaskets are used in
this
> case. Is that true? (if not, the old gaskets are actually in fine
> condition... I could probably reuse them).
>
> Doug (RV-4 fuselage)
Doug,
Are your tank lids leaking? I used a cork gasket with a thin film of Fuel
Lube, and I smeared some of the Fuel Lube on the screws as I installed them. I
then put about a gallon of 100LL in the tank and sloshed it around, setting
the tank on end to cover the tank lid with fuel and waited for a leak. There
wasn't any. When I installed the tanks on the wings at assembly time in the
hangar and wired up the fuel sending units, I discovered that I had put the
right one in upside down! Man was I glad that I had not used Pro-seal! I had
to modify the tank lid to reorient the sending unit and reassemble. I applied
a little more Fuel Lube and performed the leak check all over again. I've been
flying since May '98 with 95 flight hours so far, and no leaks.
One other thing about the fuel sending units, I set mine up where they
would not contact the tank skins at the limits of their travel, but when the
tanks are full, and I'm moving the plane, I can hear the floats hitting the
top skin of the tank. I've started finding tiny black particles in my fuel
when I sump the tanks. I think that this is material from the floats chafing
on the tank skins. I wonder if anyone else has ever noticed this? I'm thinking
about removing the tanks for an inspection of the floats to determine if this
is in fact what is taking place. Of course, it's easier to do since my lids
aren't Pro-sealed on.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Broken Arrow, Ok
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rvinfo(at)Juno.com (b green) |
Has anybody used the Christan fuel pump, gascolator, fuel selector
combination in an RV?
Bruce Green
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Front fuel tank mounts - slotted?? |
This came out in an Rvator, if I am not mistaken. I don't recall which gets
slotted, though.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message-----Somewhere I saw/heard that one of
the front fuel tank mount tabs should be
slotted so they would part in a crash rather than rip a hole
in the fuel tank.
Was this something I dreamed up or is it for real??? And if
real, which part
gets the slot or does it matter??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Request for Rv-6A Info |
Don McCallister: will be happy to provide info, but I need your e-mail
address
John RV-6A Colorado, Salida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagenttech.com> |
| Subject: | New Web-based chat room for RV builders! |
Ready for (hopefully) a more hassle-free form of chatting?
I wasn't able to use IRC for chatting because I'm behind a firewall
which blocks those ports, and I'm sure I'm not alone. With this chat
room, you don't need any extra software, just your web browser! It
does require that your web browser support Java.
Is anybody interested in trying to meet every night or once a week?
joins. Here's the address:
http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
then click on the first link ("Chat online with other RV builders").
When asked for your name, it would be helpful to enter something helpful
like "RV-6A Mitch"
See you there! Let me know if you experience any problems.
- Mitch
Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME
San Jose, CA Engine mounted...
President/Newsletter Editor Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine mount bolts RV6a - point which way? |
Hal,
I asked the same question of local Repeat Offender and DAR Guy Townsend. He
recommended placing the engine mount nuts on the forward side. This makes
it easier to visually check the nuts and cotter pins during periodic
inspections, and easier to torque the nuts at annual time.
Regards,
Tom Craig-Stearman
gonna hit the RV-4 hard this 3-day weekend.
>
>It would be easiest with the nuts on the mount side of the firewall but
usual
>practice is to have them aft -- does it matter here??
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Front fuel tank mounts - slotted?? |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>Somewhere I saw/heard that one of the front fuel tank mount tabs should be
>slotted so they would part in a crash rather than rip a hole in the fuel
>tank.
>Was this something I dreamed up or is it for real??? And if real, which
>part
>gets the slot or does it matter??
>
Van's has an inexpensive kit to do this if the builder wishes. They
think it may make the aircraft fuel tanks less liable to rupture in
certain accidents.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q N441LP Cowl
Pacer N8025D For Sale http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
Jerry,
Powder coating has been discussed several times in the past. You can
probably find something in the archives. The information I have
received from posts on the RV List and from a local powder coating
operation are not conclusive, in my opinion. In other words, I have
heard some opinions but no one seems to know for sure. I would like to
powder coat my engine mount, and probably will unless I find some
additional information to persuade me otherwise. We need more, factual
data.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, fuselage
Columbia, SC
Powder coating the mount was brought up last week with
no response that
I saw so I want to resubmit it. Is powder coating
acceptable?? Will it
make crack detection too difficult?? Will it mees up
the metalurgy(sp?)
properties??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cleaveland Aircraft Tool" <mail(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
>I have a fancy edge forming tool from Cleveland, but I can't seem to get a
>good edge. I tried it on the rudder leading edge, and I got a wavy edge.
>Tried again on the right elevator, and got more wavy edges. What am I
>doing wrong?
>
Make sure that both the rollers and the sheet is clean and free of chips.
Operate this tool using a pulling motion - NOT a pushing motion.
The normal tendency is to bend the edge too far, you should just barely be
able to see the bend.
I find it helpful to angle the roller in just slightly so that the rolling
motion keeps the flange up against the edge of the skin. This can be
overdone causing the flange to jump up onto the metal, not pretty. We have
had two come back with the bolts welded slightly wrong, preventing them from
working correctly.
Hope this helps, if not give us a call and we will get it straightened out.
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, IA 50036
1-800-368-1822 orders
1-515-432-6794 questions
1-515-432-7804 FAX
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
http://www.cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Front fuel tank mounts - slotted?? |
>one of the front fuel tank mount tabs should be
slotted so they would part in a crash rather than rip a hole in the fuel
tank. <
Hal, The Tank tip rib gets the 1/4" slot (T-405). See RVAtor, First
isssue 1998.
I believe it is also detailed on newer plans.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
wings complete, fuse ships in Feb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
Lets keep in
>mind to that this aint Texas, it gets darn cold here at times. So I am talking
>about problems when its below 35degF. I have also tried thinking up a way to
>put on another muff just for the rear passenger. Of course I know If I sealed
>up the cockpit a little better that would help some. Any Ideas would be of
>help and Im sure there are others on the list at this stage of building that
>would benefit also.
> Ryan Bendure Co.
>
Ryan
In my RV4 my passangers complained of cold, most of it was coming
from a draft around the rear of the canopy. In flight the canopy acts like a
lifting surface and it lifted the rear of the canopy quite a bit. Air then
came in and hit the passenger on the neck. Before I painted the plane I
added a fiberglass "flare" to the rear edge of the canopy. Apparently there
was drag in that location that caused the lifting of the canopy, the flare
solved the problem. This cured most of the cold air complaints.
Tom Martin, canada, ( gets cold here too!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming TBO and warranty info |
Hello all,
I called Lycoming today with a few questions that I couldn't find in the
archives, so I thought I'd post the answers. Note: These are NOT direct
quotes. Enjoy.
Q- If I buy a new O-360 engine, put an Ellison TBI in place of the carb,
and install an inverted oil system, will this void my warranty?
A- No. Warranty is still good, however, the TBO is lower with an
inverted oil system. Adding an inverted oil system basically makes the
engine an "AE" version.
Q- Is it true that there isn't a special crankshaft for the AE version
of the engines anymore?
A- Yes, the crankshafts were updated across the board and they're all
basically the same now.
Q- What is the TBO of the AE and non AE engines.
A- 2000 hours for the non-AE 180hp engine
1600 hours for the AE 180hp engine
1400 hours for the AE 200 hp engine
Q- Does Lycoming have an inverted oil system of their own, or do you use
the Christen system?
A- We use the Christen system.
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-80587 (Planning bank heist to pay for new engine)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | robjhall(at)Juno.com (Robert J. Hall) |
writes:
>I decided not to use the F682 channel console.... now I don't know what
to do >with the wiring (Elect flaps, elect elev trim, strobes, nav and
landing >lights) .....
Joe, I ran my wires forward under the battery box and up the firewall. I
even made a cover to fit over the two center floor stiffeners to hide the
plastic conduit.
Bob Hall
RV-6 N976RH
Colorado Springs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Buster" <6430(at)axion.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Rvator97(at)aol.com <Rvator97(at)aol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: CD Player
>
>Keep workin! There is nothing like listening to great CD music while flying
>the RV.
>Whenever I need a mental "cleansing" , I hop in the 6A and head for the
>coast... drop down on the deck at the Ventura, Ca. pier, turn on the
tunes,
>and just cruise the coast line all the way to Santa Barbara... absolute
>heaven!!
>
>Walt N79WH
>
You stop that ! Us RV jocks that are done and flyin don't need a whole lot
of lollygaggers beatin up the beaches like they was D-day !
Next thing you know, I'll see some gawdamn RV comin at me the other way !
I like my beach as it rounds the cape like Kahili and I can buzz all those
fat lazy seals that flop here on the Left coast while they follow the greys
to Mexico.
'Sides, we get too many barkin' Rvs out along the shoreline disturbing
the peace of all the rich waterfront residents, they'll want to buy ever RV
going by to stop the noise !
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 vert stab position |
For those of you who have already mounted your vertical stabilizer on your
RV8, Did you have any problems with the 7 13/16 dimension called out as the
dimension between the hinge bracket and the angle on the fuselage? It seams
about a 1/2 inch short to me.
Alan Kritzman
RV-8 mounting the tail feathers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
Mine works really well too...just be sure you screw in the adjustment screw
a tiny bit at a time, and you will see that your skin will lay down flat.
It does not take much at all. Just a fraction of an angle downward. Be
sure you have not dimpled you skin first....(please do not ask me how I know
this)
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael J. Robbins <kitfox(at)gte.net>
Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 5:21 AM
Subject: RV-List: Edge Forming
>
>I have a fancy edge forming tool from Cleveland, but I can't seem to get a
>good edge. I tried it on the rudder leading edge, and I got a wavy edge.
>Tried again on the right elevator, and got more wavy edges. What am I
>doing wrong?
>
>Mike Robbins
>RV-8Q starting left elevator
>Issaquah,WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "georger" <georger(at)mail.bip.net> |
| Subject: | Slightly oversized bolts |
----------
> Frn: Moe Colontonio
> Till: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> mne: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
> Datum: den 15 januari 1999 05:30
>
>
> Is there a such thing as slightly oversized bolts? I used a brad point
bit
> to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized the hole
very
> slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is, but he hasn't
> seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's making me
nervous.
> The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of the 3 holes I
> drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me? I'm going to try
> using a high strength "close tolerance" bolt, and see if that takes up
the
> slack. A TC also told me I could use JB weld to fill the slack, by
putting a
> release agent on the bolt and letting the JB fill in around it and dry in
> the hole. Like I said, it is a very minor oversize, but it's in a
critical
> area. Drilling to the next bolt size will probably compromise edge
distance.
> Any thoughts?
>
> Moe Colontonio
> moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
> Check out my RV-8 Page at:
> http://tabshred.com/moe
I used an oversize bolt at fuselage/rear spar attachment. The bolt is a NAS
6605-8X and it's
0.016 oversize (replaced the AN5-7), -8X is the shank length, 1/2".
I'd guess the AN4 size would be NAS 6604-?X.
But I don't know where you could find these, I got mine from SAS (the
airline).
George Reinikainen, Sweden RV-6 flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "khoffer" <khoffer(at)mindsync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
Is there a such thing as slightly oversized bolts?
Someone replied that oversize bolts don't exist. Actually they do.
What you want are NAS 3000 series bolts. (3003, 3004 etc. thru
3020) These bolts are close tolerance with .0156 o/s shanks.
Where to find them I don't know. Dillsburg Aero Works claims to have every
AN bolt ever made in stock. (717-432-4589). Perhaps they might carry NAS
bolts or know where to find them.
Good luck,
Kelly Hoffer
khoffer(at)mindsync.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
Of course, theoretical expectation would assume an ideal parallel flow
pattern into the inlet. What comparable results a disrupt pattern into the
inlet would produce is anyone's guess. If the disrupt pattern could be
controlled, understood and held constant, different cases could be studied
and reasonable results could be obtained. I would assume all tractor
aircraft have similar patterns, but maybe not. Also not sure how different
inlets would respond to the unknown patterns.
Any scientists out there?
jmw, RV4
-----Original Message-----
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com [mailto:KBoatri144(at)aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: cowling
The round cowl inlets do have a theoretical (and probably real-world)
advantage over square or rectangular inlets. The way to get the maximum
fluid
flow through an opening of any given size is to give the opening a circular
cross section. A long time ago, I even understood how to calculate the flow
differences....
I've decided that whether the gain is .001% or 10%, the extra work just
isn't
worth whatever advantage the round outlets offer. I plan to use a cooling
plenum, and may reduce the intake size in my otherwise stock cowling. Then
there is the issue of whether to use dzus fasteners or something similar
instead of the hinges to hold that epoxy pre-preg cowl closed....
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
Any thoughts either way on whether I should use a single power supply
for the strobes and locate it in the fuselage, or 1 of the smaller power
packs in each wingtip?
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
In a message dated 1/15/99 11:19:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dougweil(at)pressenter.com writes:
<<
At the advice of several of the list, I have decided to remove my fuel tank
access covers which were previously sealed with the cork gaskets and
Aviation Form-A-Gasket (wings complete but not installed yet). I am going
to reseal them with ProSeal. I assume that no cork gaskets are used in this
case. Is that true? (if not, the old gaskets are actually in fine
condition... I could probably reuse them).
Doug (RV-4 fuselage)
>>
Man, if it aint broke, dont fix it! I`m runnin cork gaskets and fuel lube.
It`s working fine Fred
LaForge RV-4 0-360 CS, battery
between my feet. It lands better with a passenger.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
>Hi,
>
>Any thoughts either way on whether I should use a single power supply
>for the strobes and locate it in the fuselage, or 1 of the smaller
power
>packs in each wingtip?
>
>-Glenn Gordon
Glenn,
I just installed the single unit, aft of the baggage hold in my -8.
It's a big ole thing, that's for sure! The only reason I opted for the
single unit is because I don't want to bother with making access panels
in the wingtips to service the power supplies. There's no right or
wrong way to do it, just depends on your individual taste.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
cutting panel and wiring stuff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 vert stab position |
>
>For those of you who have already mounted your vertical stabilizer on
your
>RV8, Did you have any problems with the 7 13/16 dimension called out as
the
>dimension between the hinge bracket and the angle on the fuselage? It
seams
>about a 1/2 inch short to me.
>
>Alan Kritzman
>RV-8 mounting the tail feathers
Alan,
A recent RVator has a revision to this dimension. It should be 8.125".
What's critical here is that the aft VS spar is perpendicular to the
main longerons. Any distortion of the spar will cause the rudder to
bind. Once you have locked down the rear spar, use C-clamps on the front
VS spar and any spacer that may be needed between it and the front HS
spar to adjust the VS so it is perfectly vertical. I used a carpenter's
level and Avery's little hinge bracket bushing doo dads to run a piece
of dental floss through the hinge brackets to make sure the rudder would
swing freely.
Have fun!
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
instruments and systems installations underway.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming TBO and warranty info |
Hi Folks:
Russell Duffy wrote:
"Q- If I buy a new O-360 engine, put an Ellison TBI in place of the carb,
and install an inverted oil system, will this void my warranty?"
Answer from Lycoming:
"A- No. Warranty is still good, however, the TBO is lower with an
inverted oil system. Adding an inverted oil system basically makes the
engine an "AE" version."
My question: why does an inverted oil system lower the TBO?
Tim - Ice Station Pittsburgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Van Artsdalen <scott_rv4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
Personally, I'd put those power supplies as close to the strobes as
possible. Keep that high voltage cable short and the radio noise down.
---Glenn & Judi wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Any thoughts either way on whether I should use a single power supply
> for the strobes and locate it in the fuselage, or 1 of the smaller
power
> packs in each wingtip?
>
> -Glenn Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
=
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 #1054 - Wings
"The essence of character is doing what's right
even when nobody's looking."
J.C. Watts
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
| From: | rvpilot(at)Juno.com (William R. Davis Jr) |
Doug,
My advice would be to use the cork gasket with proseal on both sides.
This way, if you ever have to remove it, you have a chance by slicing
through the cork with a razor blade. Without the cork in there it would
be very difficult. Better yet, use fuel lube on each side of the gasket (
and under the screw heads ).
Regards, Bill N66WD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 vert stab position |
Alan,
The fourth issue 1998 of the RVator has a revision that changed the
dimension to 8 1/8".
>
>
>For those of you who have already mounted your vertical stabilizer on your
>RV8, Did you have any problems with the 7 13/16 dimension called out as the
>dimension between the hinge bracket and the angle on the fuselage? It seams
>about a 1/2 inch short to me.
>
>Alan Kritzman
>RV-8 mounting the tail feathers
>
>
Bill Pagan
"I am but a simple man with simple needs"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Arzflyer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
I installed dual packs on the outboard side of the outboard wing ribs. Easy
to get at by removing the tips. Keeps the radio interference gremlins out
there where they don't cause a problem, plus that way you have a very short
high voltage line run.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terrence C. Watson" <tcwatson(at)pstbbs.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 vert stab position |
>
>For those of you who have already mounted your vertical stabilizer on your
>RV8, Did you have any problems with the 7 13/16 dimension called out as the
>dimension between the hinge bracket and the angle on the fuselage? It
seams
>about a 1/2 inch short to me.
>
>Alan Kritzman
>RV-8 mounting the tail feathers
Alan,
I'm not there yet, but I have a note on my drawing sheet 27 that I made that
says of that 7-13/16" dimension: Revised to 8-1/8". see 4th issue 98
RVaviator, back page. I also have another note about trimming off the
vertical stabilizer spar if/as required to fit as shown, referring to the
front spar.
Terry
RV-8A, waiting for the wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
I agree with having the tail tied down and the wheels chocked when doing
static runups, however the tail shouldn't rise if you have the stick in your
lap where it belongs!
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Flying Phil's Circus <sisson(at)ctnet.net>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: Lifting tail on run up
>
>This is not uncommon in light, high powered airplanes. It simply means that
your
>thrust is overcoming the tail weight. However, if you hold the power on it
will
>come on over and cause a prop strike with lots of damage.
>On run-ups, tie the tail down if you have to make a static run. Otherwise
only
>run it up to something that is a hundred or more RPM's less than full
power.
>Probably with an adult in the back, the tail won't raise.
>
>Phil
>
>noeldrew wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi from a very warm Durban, South Africa.
>>
>> I have been asked a question by the next-to-fly, (No.2), South African
RV6
>> (quick build) builder and need help with an answer.
>>
>> Jacko Jackson located nearby Hermanus in the Cape Province is awaiting
his
>> permission to fly and during his static tests found that with brakes full
on
>> and stick full back, his tail still lifted at full throttle. Unlike my
RV6,
>> his has a CS prop and his O-320 engine is developing full power at
static.
>> Is this normal for RVs with CS props because I have never experienced any
>> tail lift while on the brakes? My business partner who has flown a Sukoi
>> S26 seems to think this is normal with high power on a light aircraft.
>>
>> A word of comfort in this regard would be appreciated.
>>
>> Noel Drew
>> ZU-APF RV6 (No 1)
>> Durban, South Africa
>>
>> Matronics: http://www.matronics.com
>> RV-List: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
>> Archive Search Engine: http://www.matronics.com/search
>> Archive Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives
>> Other Email Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
>
> Hi,
>
> Any thoughts either way on whether I should use a single power supply
> for the strobes and locate it in the fuselage, or 1 of the smaller power
> packs in each wingtip?
>
> -Glenn Gordon
Glenn,
I had a Whelen Strobe power supply located under the floor pan on my RV-4.
Every time it flashed you could hear a WHOOP WHOOP in the headphones. I
changed the power supply and put one in each wingtip. Now I don't hear any
noise in the headsets. It's driving me crazy now. I don't know if it's really working
or not when I turn it on.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
Tom,
In addition to canopy lifting I have found that the
large RV4 canopy shrinks in the winter. An amazing
amount I might add. Mine lifts up approx 1/8 in in the
back. I was able to add V shaped weatherstriping
around the rear to seal it. I also put two 2 in. holes in
the upper removable baggage compartment to allow
cabin air to exit thru them instead of pressurizing
the cockpit. I have had no comments of drafts or
unbearable cold conditions.
Stew Bergner RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
Glen,
I used the individual power supplies. Easy to put
mounts and access plates out in the last rib bay.
If you havent installed your wingtips with rivits you
can mount them on the outboard rib and make the tips
removable. The remote power supplies eliminate long
h/v wire runs thru the wings.
Stew Bergner RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
In a message dated 1/15/99 10:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, dhormann(at)gte.net
writes:
<< however the tail shouldn't rise if you have the stick in your
lap where it belongs!
Doug
>>
Doug,
Not necessarily true. The tailwheel on my RV8 will "NOT" stay on the ground
with the brakes locked, stick in my lap, during a full power run up.
Louis Smith
RV-8 N801RV
IO-360-A1B6 McCauley CS prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
Gert,
Should something happen to me, I have life insurance to cover that
eventuality. In my opinion, anyone who has a family to think about is
negligent if they don't.
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Gert van der Sanden <gert(at)execpc.com>
Date: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: N48RV Lawsuit
>
>You know, this might just be the only way the spouse could get money to
>bring up and put through school her kids ???
>
>Ya'all know even if she wins she won't see but a fraction of what she is
>sueing for.
>
>I am not exactly pro-sueing but America is not exactly known for caring
>of those who are left behind.
>
>Gert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | deburring and crack formation |
This is probably a very silly question, but better safe than sorry;
I was seconds away from starting to rivet the right elevator skin (RV-6A)
to the skeleton and discovered that I had never deburred the inboard end of
the elevator spar after trimming it off.
As the plans say, the inboard edge of the spar was trimmed off
enough to let the elevator horn fit into place. I used a mototool with an
alundum grinding bit. The edge is not super rough, but's certainly not
"satin smooth." It's now very firmly covered up by the elevator horn. To
expose it I'd have to completely remove the elev. horn. That's got some
risk too; things are never as strong the second time around. The part of
the spar under the elevator horn is just about impossible to inspect, so if
cracks form I won't know it.
My guess is that the steel elev. horn constrains the spar enough
that cracks are unlikely to form. But I have so little experience with
this sort of thing that I can't trust my own guesses here.
Thanks for any comments...
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
Hi Brian;
Why do you have to make access panels to get at the power supplies?
Unless maybe you are talking about just pop riveting the wing tips on,
instead of using nutplates. I mounted my power supply on the last rib,
straddling the end of the main spar. The wing tip fits over it with room
to spare. Also at this location the wires coming through the wing conduit
are right there to connect. Worked for me!
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>Any thoughts either way on whether I should use a single power supply
>>for the strobes and locate it in the fuselage, or 1 of the smaller
>power
>>packs in each wingtip?
>>
>>-Glenn Gordon
>
>Glenn,
>
>I just installed the single unit, aft of the baggage hold in my -8.
>It's a big ole thing, that's for sure! The only reason I opted for the
>
>single unit is because I don't want to bother with making access
>panels
>in the wingtips to service the power supplies. There's no right or
>wrong way to do it, just depends on your individual taste.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 #379
>cutting panel and wiring stuff.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 Tape Removal |
I am getting ready (still) to paint my RV-8, using Delstar Acrylic
Enamel, and am wondering when is it desireable to pull tape off after
spraying colors. I have heard either right away after 15-30 minutes, or
after overnight dry, but not in between. Is this correct? I dont want to
have it break the paint along the tape line. Thanks.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wntzl(at)execpc.com (David M Wentzell) |
| Subject: | Tank attach angle bracket T-405 position |
Greetings,
I find that the bracket position as indicated on the plans - (2" aft of
inside leading edge) is in conflict with 4 or 5 of my skin to rib rivets.
If I shift the bracket aft about 1/8 inch I will then have clearance for
the shop heads - otherwise I could grind "clearance grooves" on the bracket
edge as needed. Will moving the bracket slightly cause problems when
attaching to the fuse later? I would much rather move it than grind it.
David Wentzell
RV6 - Wings
Racine, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 vert stab position |
In a message dated 1/15/99 8:13:47 PM Central Standard Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk"
>
>For those of you who have already mounted your vertical stabilizer on
your
>RV8, Did you have any problems with the 7 13/16 dimension called out as
the
>dimension between the hinge bracket and the angle on the fuselage? It
seams
>about a 1/2 inch short to me.
>
>Alan Kritzman
>RV-8 mounting the tail feathers
Alan,
A recent RVator has a revision to this dimension. It should be 8.125".
What's critical here is that the aft VS spar is perpendicular to the
main longerons. Any distortion of the spar will cause the rudder to
bind. Once you have locked down the rear spar, use C-clamps on the front
VS spar and any spacer that may be needed between it and the front HS
spar to adjust the VS so it is perfectly vertical. I used a carpenter's
level and Avery's little hinge bracket bushing doo dads to run a piece
of dental floss through the hinge brackets to make sure the rudder would
swing freely.
Have fun!
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
instruments and systems installations underway >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming Responses |
Thanks all for responding. I did have the rollers fairly tight as I really
had to yank to get the tool rolling, and several times it ran off the side
of the sheet. With them loose I could hardly see a bend, but I guess
that's how it's suppose to be. I was looking for a fairly significant
angle for the empennage leading edges as they tend to stick up quite a bit.
Guess no one will see them anyway. Just have to keep the rudder faired
whenever the airplane is parked at the ramp. Been using structural epoxy
to fill the gap.
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Seward747(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Front fuel tank mounts - slotted?? |
The article detailing this is on p.11 of the mentioned RVator (first issue
'98). The hardware kit for the mod is Van's part # BAG 989, price $1.48.
Don't know whether it includes the drawing, again, see the RVator article.
Doug Seward, -4, Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
piper apparently thought it was a good idea -they're in the belly on every
cherokee six (integrally located with the fuel selector) and some of their
other models as well. mabye you're right -mabye i should have it up there next
to the hot exhaust -where if it springs a leak it will spray like a squirt gun
what with being on the high pressure side of the pump (and even if it doesn't
leak it'll make the system more prone to vapor lock -next to the heat -a
concern of mine -i run auto fuel). if it leaks i want to know about it -this
way i'll smell it before it becomes a fire and the firewall has to live up to
it's name. the only electrical piece of equip in the same compartment is the
fuel pump, and the comp has a drain hole. seems pretty safe to me. a plane is
not a boat -the fumes can escape downward in a plane -unlike a boat where they
are trapped in the lowest location. I grew up with boats...
i appreciate you concern -but i gave it a lot of thought.
scott
N4ZW
A&P / inspector / aircraft restorer / rv-4 builder.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
Okay, I'll bite. How is your tail able to lift with your elevator in the
full up position?
Doug
-----Original Message-----
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com <Lousmith(at)aol.com>
Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: Lifting tail on run up
>
>In a message dated 1/15/99 10:02:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dhormann(at)gte.net
>writes:
>
><< however the tail shouldn't rise if you have the stick in your
> lap where it belongs!
>
> Doug
> >>
>Doug,
>Not necessarily true. The tailwheel on my RV8 will "NOT" stay on the
ground
>with the brakes locked, stick in my lap, during a full power run up.
>
>Louis Smith
>RV-8 N801RV
>IO-360-A1B6 McCauley CS prop
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming TBO and warranty info |
>
> Hi Folks:
>
> Russell Duffy wrote:
>
> "Q- If I buy a new O-360 engine, put an Ellison TBI in place of the
carb,
> and install an inverted oil system, will this void my warranty?"
>
> Answer from Lycoming:
>
> "A- No. Warranty is still good, however, the TBO is lower with an
> inverted oil system. Adding an inverted oil system basically makes
the
> engine an "AE" version."
>
> My question: why does an inverted oil system lower the TBO?
>
> Tim - Ice Station Pittsburgh
Tim:
The inverted oil system uses a shuttle valve to pick up the oil from
the top or bottom of the case. Knife edge flight has no oil pick up.
There is also a momentay loss of oil pressure when going from vertical
stabilizer pointing up to vertical stabilizer pointing down. This
momantary loss of oil pressure will casue more wear on the bearings
and the gyroscopic forces are much higher in an aerobatic engine. The
engine see the G-loads also.
The momentary loss of oil pressure when changing attitude is the short
answer. Hope either the short or long helps. Someone else may be
able to explain it better.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
*** Posting this for a friend. Please respond to him, not me. ***
RV-6 for Sale
O-360 (180hp), constant speed prop, 112 hours on
airframe, 1300 since 0 time engine overhaul, dual
brakes, Rocky Mountain Instrument panel, electric
trim & flaps, beautiful paint job. $65,000. Lost
Medical. Call Evart at (503) 648-3564.
*** Posting this for a friend. Please respond to him, not me. ***
RV-6 for Sale
O-360 (180hp), constant speed prop, 112 hours on
airframe, 1300 since 0 time engine overhaul, dual
brakes, Rocky Mountain Instrument panel, electric
trim & flaps, beautiful paint job. $65,000. Lost
Medical. Call Evart at (503) 648-3564.
*** Posting this for a friend. Please respond to him, not me. ***
RV-6 for Sale
O-360 (180hp), constant speed prop, 112 hours on
airframe, 1300 since 0 time engine overhaul, dual
brakes, Rocky Mountain Instrument panel, electric
trim & flaps, beautiful paint job. $65,000. Lost
Medical. Call Evart at (503) 648-3564.
*** Posting this for a friend. Please respond to him, not me. ***
RV-6 for Sale
O-360 (180hp), constant speed prop, 112 hours on
airframe, 1300 since 0 time engine overhaul, dual
brakes, Rocky Mountain Instrument panel, electric
trim & flaps, beautiful paint job. $65,000. Lost
Medical. Call Evart at (503) 648-3564.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
>
>Hi Brian;
>Why do you have to make access panels to get at the power supplies?
>Unless maybe you are talking about just pop riveting the wing tips on,
>instead of using nutplates. I mounted my power supply on the last rib,
>straddling the end of the main spar. The wing tip fits over it with
room
>to spare. Also at this location the wires coming through the wing
conduit
>are right there to connect. Worked for me!
>Von Alexander
>N41VA(at)juno.com
Von,
I was referring to the situation with pop riveted tips...which I'm
planning on. I hate nutplates! Once those tips are on, I hope they're
on for good. Removing screws or drilling out pop rivets in the event the
tip must be removed someday would likely chip paint with either means of
attachment. Bummer. Oh well, I'm not building a show plane...just a GO
plane!
Hey, ain't you flyin' yet? Get busy!! ;)
See ya!
Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
I like the riveted doubler idea, I like the Locktite over JB Weld anyday, yes
NAS bolts are available in differing shank sizes from AN, if you use a
chucking reamer, yes, it is better to turn it by hand with a T-handle or such
or even if you are very careful a good Makita drill with a lot of torque and a
good SLOW speed. Never reverse your reamer or cock it to the side. I still
think you need not worry too much. Fly the machine when it is done and inspect
for signs of movement or working--if so--then make your repair. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
| Subject: | RE:Slightly oversized bolts/NAS6700 series/HC Pacific |
> I used an oversize bolt at fuselage/rear spar attachment. The
> bolt is a NAS
> 6605-8X and it's
> 0.016 oversize (replaced the AN5-7), -8X is the shank length, 1/2".
> I'd guess the AN4 size would be NAS 6604-?X.
> But I don't know where you could find these, I got mine from SAS (the
> airline).
George-
I have the spec sheets for the NAS6703 - 6720 close tolerance (slightly
oversized) bolts from the NAS standards/AIA publication that was faxed to me
from a very helpful lady at HC Pacific. I am using this bolt for my
slightly elongated hole in my wing spar. i have the spec sheet, but it is a
fax, and most likely would be unreadable as a fax-of-a-fax. I will check on
the the number to HC Pacific.
I have also considered things like JB weld, Aluminum putty (that can be
machined when cured), T-88 structural epoxy, etc., just to make sure that
you reduce the chances of a "wobble" in a elongated hole. Some of the
persons I've asked say "why not?" Others say "don't do it," or "I wouldn't
do it." Most of the persons I've asked were A&P's and/or lifetime aircraft
restorers/builders. My thinking was not to hold the bolt, or fix the hole,
but rather to keep any wear that might ocur over time to a minimum, while
possibly serving a dual purpose as a wear "indicator" (i assume that you
would see traces of the material, i.e. JB Weld before you see any aluminum
dust, etc., that may show up with wobble/wear?).
I haven't abandoned the idea, I just don't know if my hole(s) are bad enough
to but myself through all of the worrying! :-)
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45
Socorro, NM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach angle bracket T-405 position |
David M Wentzell wrote:
>
>
> Greetings,
> I find that the bracket position as indicated on the plans - (2" aft of
> inside leading edge) is in conflict with 4 or 5 of my skin to rib rivets.
> If I shift the bracket aft about 1/8 inch I will then have clearance for
> the shop heads - otherwise I could grind "clearance grooves" on the bracket
> edge as needed. Will moving the bracket slightly cause problems when
> attaching to the fuse later? I would much rather move it than grind it.
> David Wentzell
> RV6 - Wings
> Racine, WI
>
Hi David,
Tonight, I was working on the left fuel tank and built the bracket and
was wondering the same thing about rivet clearance. As far as moving
the bracket, look in the manual at plan #46 and it shows how the bracket
is going to attach to the fuselage bracket. There's flexibility there
to move the fuse attach bracket forward or aft a little if needed. Just
make the piece between the stringers that the fuse bracket attaches to,
the right length to reach both stringers. I'll be watching this thread
to see what has been done about the rivet clearance.
Received the information yesterday that you sent. Thanks.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
| Subject: | Re: dimple for 6-32 screws |
Hi Steve,
I don't know what others are doing but in many cases where I cant use a
regular dimple die I use a rivet to dimple. All you need is a female to
match. Most of the time I use the female die but all you need is a
countersunk piece of metal.
Bill Jaugilas
Capt. Steven DiNieri wrote:
>
>
> i'm installing platenuts for most fiberglass tips. the platenut jig requires
> a hole slightly larger than 1/8" (i think a 28#) i've searched the tool
> catalogs and dont find any larger dimple sets than 1/8". i would much rather
> dimple than countersink. what are most you guys doing? i tried using the
> 1/8" dimple but the c'sink screw sets above surface even after some liberal
> deburring???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt. Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Together or Apart? |
i was concidering priming the exterior of the controll surfaces before i
start the wings. any reason i should not? also , has anyone painted the
parts in thier respective base colors as they build?
Steven DiNieri
Capsteve(at)wzrd.com
Wings in the works!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvator97(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 1/15/99 4:42:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, 6430(at)axion.net
writes:
<< You stop that ! Us RV jocks that are done and flyin don't need a whole
lot
of lollygaggers beatin up the beaches like they was D-day !
Next thing you know, I'll see some gawdamn RV comin at me the other way !
I like my beach as it rounds the cape like Kahili and I can buzz all those
fat lazy seals that flop here on the Left coast while they follow the greys
to Mexico.
'Sides, we get too many barkin' Rvs out along the shoreline disturbing
the peace of all the rich waterfront residents, they'll want to buy ever RV
going by to stop the noise ! >>
WHAT?????
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Tank attach angle bracket T-405 position |
I ground "clearance grooves." I was afraid to move it because I did not
know what would happen when I came to attach it to the fuselage.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
I find that the bracket position as indicated on the
plans - (2" aft of
inside leading edge) is in conflict with 4 or 5 of my skin
to rib rivets.
If I shift the bracket aft about 1/8 inch I will then have
clearance for
the shop heads - otherwise I could grind "clearance grooves"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian RV builders |
A
>Name Tom Martin
>Address R.R.#8
>City St.Thomas
>Province Ontario, N5P-3T3
>Phone 519-631-1369
>Fax 519-631.3358
>email fairlea(at)execulink.com
>plane type harmon Rockett
>Registration number C-GCAZ
>RV serial number 159
This is my second plane, first flew May 98 i now have 100 hours on it,
My first plane was a RV4 which first flew in May of 95, I had 350 hours on
it when I sold it one year ago to a gentleman in England.
Now where are you and what are you up to?
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Front fuel tank mounts - slotted?? |
>
> Somewhere I saw/heard that one of the front fuel tank mount tabs should be
> slotted so they would part in a crash rather than rip a hole in the
> fuel tank.
> Was this something I dreamed up or is it for real??? And if real, which part
> gets the slot or does it matter??
Hal,
It depends on where you are in the build sequence. If the T-405 tank
attach angle is easily accessible, the RV-ator (1st issue 98) article
says to slot the T-405. If the wings are already on the aircraft,
they say to unbolt the fuselage attach angle (F-352, F-463, F-696 or
F-863) and slot it. Which ever piece is not slotted gets a
MK1000-428 platenut. Use an AN4H6A bolt and AN970-4 washer. The
bolt has a drilled head and should be safety wired. Don't tighten
the bolt too much. There is more info in the RV-ator article.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
>
> Okay, I'll bite. How is your tail able to lift with your elevator in the
> full up position?
> Doug
Doug,
Then there are two opposing forces, thrust from the prop trying to
rotate the aircraft nose down, and the prop wash on the elevator
trying to hold the tail down. Also, the weight and CG will vary, so
each aircraft has a different amount of weight on the tail wheel.
The amount of thrust from the prop will vary with engine horsepower
and prop diameter, etc. Some props will produce more static thrust
than others. A large diameter constant speed prop probably produces
the most static thrust. Also, the length of the main landing gear is
a variable. The longer the gear, the more pitching moment the engine
thrust will produce.
The amount of nose up pitching moment that the elevator can produce
will vary with stab incidence, max elevator up deflection, and
distance from tail to main landing gear (in flight it is distance
from the CG that is important, but here we are trying to rotate
around the gear, so it is that distance that counts).
If the prop thrust can produce enough pitching moment to overcome the
weight on the tailwheel plus the down force from the elevator, the
tail will lift and the pilot's eyes will get very big.
Some tailwheel aircraft can do a full power run up just by holding
full aft stick, and some can't. As others have suggested, if you
don't know for sure whether your aircraft is OK, the safe course of
action is to tie the tail down.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
Doug Hormann wrote:
>
>
> Okay, I'll bite. How is your tail able to lift with your elevator in the
> full up position?
>
> Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >Not necessarily true. The tailwheel on my RV8 will "NOT" stay on the
> ground
> >with the brakes locked, stick in my lap, during a full power run up.
> >
> >Louis Smith
> >RV-8 N801RV
> >IO-360-A1B6 McCauley CS prop
"I don't know."
I do know that it happened with a 160hp T-18, a 200hp Swift, & happens
with the 160 hp RV-4 I now own.
To take a wild stab at the reason: 1: wing center of lift is behind the
mains 2: "ground effect" (?????) on tail with the air 'compressed'
between the ground & tail.
Repeat: possible reasons above are speculation. But the tail will come
up with enough horsepower.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Tape Removal |
Eric Strickland wrote:
>
> Archive
> You should remove the tape right after you spray the colors . Allow the
> "Stripes" to dry over night before attempting to tape and spray another
> color .
> When using Acrylic Enamel you have to be careful about putting tape over
> fresh paint as it will mar the finish . Taking the tape off when wet will
> let the paint "Flow" and will not have a sharp edge . Do not use masking
> tape ! Use "Fine Line" tape and be sure the edges of tape are on good .
> Masking tape can cause a couple of problems : Bleed through,The adhesive can
> melt and stick to the other color and cause a mess for you to clean later or
> mar the original color-hense re-paint original.
> Buy 1/2" blue fine line from 3m (Paint store) lay a piece of masking tape a
> 1/4" away from the stripe should be then use the fine line over the top of
> the masking tape to make the edge . If you have any more questions about
> paint feel free to ask me I have 15 years experience with automotive paint
Nothing to add, just making sure this is in the archive when I'm ready
(finally) to paint.....
PatK - RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
<< Any Ideas would be of
help and Im sure there are others on the list at this stage of building that
would benefit also. P.S was just kidding about the wife, and your right she
would have put me in a head lock had she read that. >>
The ail tube seals will help a good deal- I have a drawing around here
somewhere I got from a -6 builder in Connecticut. Any heat you can direct
that direction will get you a lot of brownie points, too, but your dropped
floors will hinder that (altho you may be able to get a 1.5" tube to the aft
stick area- anything will help). The aft edge of the canopy lifts a bit- a
seal here will also help. I saw another post about some vent holes in the
baggage compt close-out- good idea. Elec sox would be the easiest, however!
Just kidding, Mo! Please post how you subdue this demon- I'll need that info
for the QB Rocket kit buyers I'll be dealing with after S-n-F.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
<< Personally, I'd put those power supplies as close to the strobes as
possible. Keep that high voltage cable short and the radio noise down.
>>
Of course, there's the cost issue. I sell the double-flash Aeroflash units
(nav/strobe) for $325. No interferance problems so far!
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 Builders/Flyers/Enthusiasts |
Rob:This guy lost it...He doesn't have an RV-3...Jim Brown (two 3s, one early
model 125hp and later with all mods 160hp)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, Billy" <billy.wilson(at)lmco.com> |
Will,
Have you asked your DAR about this? I was intent on doing my own engine
maintenence, but I don't want to run afoul of any regulations or have my
insurance company refuse to pay a claim. Looks like nobody is sure, or the
rules are being applied inconsistantly. Also, I don't think I would care to
get into a conversation with any FAA representative where I was obviously
trying to work around some regulations.
> ----------
> From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC[SMTP:stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com]
> Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 7:44 AM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Flight testing
>
>
>
> Listers,
>
> (Long Story....)
>
> Please be aware the no two FAA inspectors will ever agree what is in
> the Reg's, never mind what is legal. They all have their own
> interpretation of their own regs.... Even when presented with approved
> 337 forms from one FISDO office, another FISDO office can and does
> disapprove the same changes on a certified aircraft. (We see this a lot
> at the BDL FISDO...)
>
> When I got the airworthiness cert for N925RV, I was told that my
> "Lycolming" engine needed to have all the AD paperwork in order to get
> the airworthiness cert. I asked the inspector why he thought that it was
> a "Lycolming" engine and not an experimental engine as my paper work
> indicated. His response was that it said so on the Rocker Covers! So I
> said, in eight more places there was the name "Champion", in two more
> places it said "Bendix", and in another place it said "Marval Shweber",
> so, with all these names, what made it a "Lycolming" engine. His replay
> was "I see your point, but officially, the name is on the engine data
> tag". In error, I replied that "Experimental" engines didn't require a
> data tag. His retort was "All engines require a data tag!", to which I
> replied, "What would you like it to say? This engine no longer meets the
> requirements of a certified engine and therefore IS Experimental..."
>
> He then asked WHY I wanted an "Experimental" engine. My response was
> a question to him: If this engine was "Certified" could I legally put an
> automotive quality electronic ignition on it like every car in America
> has, and still keep the certification? Or what about Ceramic coatings on
> all journals like the top notch race technology people are doing? His
> reply was "No, certified engines have no certified process in place for
> electronic ignitions (This was prior to the new Bendix system) or
> Ceramic coatings" to which I replied " That's why I don't want a
> 'Certified' engine, I'd be stuck in the thinking process and technology
> of the 1940's where the FAA was keeping the "Certified' part of General
> Aviation." and that the FAA Experimental classification allows us to
> "experiment" and make changes away from the "certified" process. That is
> the basic intent of the experimental process, and without it, no
> progress could be made in the betterment of general aviation.
>
> The bottom line is that my engine's tag now says "Manufacture: FW
> STUCKLEN Type: O-320-D1A" and I can work on it legally AND be
> insured..... ( I even kept the original S/N...)
>
> Fred Stucklen
> N925RV RV-6A
> E. Windsor, Ct
> 1300+ Hrs/5+Yrs
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Adrian Chick [SMTP:adrianchick(at)home.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 14, 1999 4:19 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Flight testing
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Al,
> > >
> > > I,m like you, I wish he was wrong. We challenged this and Mr.
> > Inspectir
> > > says we build the airframe and can repair it. We didn't build that
> > > engine bought from Van's, Bart's or whoever. He says, take it to an
> > A&P
> > > or get an A&P license yourself. Again, they know we work on them!
> > > Adrian Chick added to this thread and suggested that if we have an
> > > accident that is related to this sort of violation, insurance no
> > pay!!!
> > >
> > > Jerry Calvert
> > > Edmond Ok -6a wings
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I think that the fact that the FAA chooses not to pursue you guys who
> > work on
> > your own engines has nothing to do with the contract between you and
> > your
> > insurance carrier regarding what they will cover and what they won't.
> > The FAA is
> > not the one who insures your airplane. I'm simply suggesting that
> > each person
> > check his particular policy and give it some thought. It's worth the
> > phone call
> > don't you think?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> >
> > -----
> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> > -----
> >
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
Also, wouldn't there be some lifting action on the tail from ground
effect, at least with a tail dragger? That large prop produces nearly a
6' swath of thrust at high power, it would seem that a large portion of
this on the downside would hit the ground and then bounce back up and hit
the bottom of the tail, creating a upward force.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>
>>
>> Okay, I'll bite. How is your tail able to lift with your elevator
>in the
>> full up position?
>> Doug
>
>Doug,
>
>Then there are two opposing forces, thrust from the prop trying to
>rotate the aircraft nose down, and the prop wash on the elevator
>trying to hold the tail down. Also, the weight and CG will vary, so
>each aircraft has a different amount of weight on the tail wheel.
>
>The amount of thrust from the prop will vary with engine horsepower
>and prop diameter, etc. Some props will produce more static thrust
>than others. A large diameter constant speed prop probably produces
>the most static thrust. Also, the length of the main landing gear is
>a variable. The longer the gear, the more pitching moment the engine
>thrust will produce.
>
>The amount of nose up pitching moment that the elevator can produce
>will vary with stab incidence, max elevator up deflection, and
>distance from tail to main landing gear (in flight it is distance
>from the CG that is important, but here we are trying to rotate
>around the gear, so it is that distance that counts).
>
>If the prop thrust can produce enough pitching moment to overcome the
>weight on the tailwheel plus the down force from the elevator, the
>tail will lift and the pilot's eyes will get very big.
>
>Some tailwheel aircraft can do a full power run up just by holding
>full aft stick, and some can't. As others have suggested, if you
>don't know for sure whether your aircraft is OK, the safe course of
>action is to tie the tail down.
>
>Take care,
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
>khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
>Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
>http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tail-up on Start-up |
When I had my RV-4, the only time I had a problem with the tail rising
was on start-up, and I have seen others do this also. The problem is if
you have one hand on throttle, other on start switch, the stick is
floating free. Then if the engine surges a little on start up, the tail
comes up before you can get your hand on the stick. It wakes you up fast!
What I need is a third hand coming out of the belly area, :) but since
that is impractical, some method to hold the stick back during start and
taxi would be nice. Any ideas here?
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Avery's 4" No-hole yoke |
Remember all that talk last week about defective or back-ordered Avery 4"
no-hole squeezer yokes? I talked to Ken Avery of Avery Tools on Thursday,
and he gave me the whole story. The bottom line is that there was, in
fact, a batch of these that were obviously uncured, which caused them to
deform after squeezing a few rivets, especially 1/8" rivets. But Ken said
that Avery Tools, living up to the reputation they seem to have amont RV
builders and listers, will replace any defective yoke. They also promised
my new yoke to be in my hands by next weekend. If you think you have a bad
yoke from Avery, give him a call. Of course, it goes without saying that
I'm thrilled with Avery's customer support, but I sure am getting antsy
without anything to do THIS weekend.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A, rudder and elevators
Marietta, GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Slightly oversized bolts |
Where can I find said reamers?
-Larry
RV-8
email: larry(at)bowen.com
web: http://larry.bowen.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley
> Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 12:52 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>
>
> It depends on the type of reamer. An adjustable reamer cuts on the sides.
> A machine reamer cuts on the end. You can buy nice chucking
> reamers for you
> hand drill that produce exactly the size you need, exactly round from an
> undersized drilled unround drilled hole. (Drilling a hole produces holes
> that are not round!)
> Reaming a hole makes it perfectly round.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
Hmm. I wonder if you could use one of those stick grips with all the
buttons and wire one of them to run your starter? Then you would
have one hand on the throttle and the other on the stick.
You would also want a Starter Engaged light to tell you if that
switch stuck, but that is a good idea even with the normal ignition
switch.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> When I had my RV-4, the only time I had a problem with the tail rising
> was on start-up, and I have seen others do this also. The problem is if
> you have one hand on throttle, other on start switch, the stick is
> floating free. Then if the engine surges a little on start up, the tail
> comes up before you can get your hand on the stick. It wakes you up fast!
> What I need is a third hand coming out of the belly area, :) but since
> that is impractical, some method to hold the stick back during start and
> taxi would be nice. Any ideas here?
> Von Alexander
> N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
You are correct. The HS is producing an up force, and the elevator
is producing a down force. The total force from all tail surfaces is
a down force.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> Also, wouldn't there be some lifting action on the tail from ground
> effect, at least with a tail dragger? That large prop produces nearly a
> 6' swath of thrust at high power, it would seem that a large portion of
> this on the downside would hit the ground and then bounce back up and hit
> the bottom of the tail, creating a upward force.
> Von Alexander
> N41VA(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Esten W. Spears" <spears3(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
Mlfred(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
> << Any Ideas would be of
> help and Im sure there are others on the list at this stage of building that
> would benefit also. P.S was just kidding about the wife, and your right she
> would have put me in a head lock had she read that. >>
>
> The ail tube seals will help a good deal- I have a drawing around here
> somewhere I got from a -6 builder in Connecticut. Any heat you can direct
> that direction will get you a lot of brownie points, too, but your dropped
> floors will hinder that (altho you may be able to get a 1.5" tube to the aft
> stick area- anything will help). The aft edge of the canopy lifts a bit- a
> seal here will also help. I saw another post about some vent holes in the
> baggage compt close-out- good idea. Elec sox would be the easiest, however!
> Just kidding, Mo! Please post how you subdue this demon- I'll need that info
> for the QB Rocket kit buyers I'll be dealing with after S-n-F.
>
> Check six!
> Mark
>
Whats a Quick Build Rocket Kit??? I'm a new RV List subscriber who's
just ordered an rv8aqb. I'm afraid your answer is going to make me sick!
EWS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
Enco is a good source. You can get either eastern rim manufacture or
American. I have also picked up one or two at Oshkosh and surplus sales.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com>
Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>
>Where can I find said reamers?
>
>-Larry
>RV-8
>email: larry(at)bowen.com
>web: http://larry.bowen.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 12:52 PM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>>
>>
>>
>> It depends on the type of reamer. An adjustable reamer cuts on the
sides.
>> A machine reamer cuts on the end. You can buy nice chucking
>> reamers for you
>> hand drill that produce exactly the size you need, exactly round from an
>> undersized drilled unround drilled hole. (Drilling a hole produces holes
>> that are not round!)
>> Reaming a hole makes it perfectly round.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "IEN YOE" <PAUL.AND.IEN(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Tape Removal |
----------
> From: Eric Strickland <eric.strick(at)prodigy.net>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-8 Tape Removal
> Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 7:32 AM
>
>
> You should remove the tape right after you spray the colors . Allow the
> "Stripes" to dry over night before attempting to tape and spray another
> color .
> When using Acrylic Enamel you have to be careful about putting tape over
> fresh paint as it will mar the finish . Taking the tape off when wet will
> let the paint "Flow" and will not have a sharp edge . Do not use masking
> tape ! Use "Fine Line" tape and be sure the edges of tape are on good .
> Masking tape can cause a couple of problems : Bleed through,The adhesive
can
> melt and stick to the other color and cause a mess for you to clean later
or
> mar the original color-hense re-paint original.
> Buy 1/2" blue fine line from 3m (Paint store) lay a piece of masking tape
a
> 1/4" away from the stripe should be then use the fine line over the top
of
> the masking tape to make the edge . If you have any more questions about
> paint feel free to ask me I have 15 years experience with automotive
paint
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Tape Removal |
Much snipped...
<< Taking the tape off when wet will
> let the paint "Flow" and will not have a sharp edge . >>
Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think the original poster meant that
if you pull the tape off quickly, you won't get a sharp ridge between colors.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
Rutland also has them at higher prices 1-800-289-4787 but I have only
purchased from ENCO as I have a local affiliated dealer. 1-800-873-3626
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowen.com>
Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>
>Where can I find said reamers?
>
>-Larry
>RV-8
>email: larry(at)bowen.com
>web: http://larry.bowen.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cy Galley
>> Sent: Friday, January 15, 1999 12:52 PM
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Slightly oversized bolts
>>
>>
>>
>> It depends on the type of reamer. An adjustable reamer cuts on the
sides.
>> A machine reamer cuts on the end. You can buy nice chucking
>> reamers for you
>> hand drill that produce exactly the size you need, exactly round from an
>> undersized drilled unround drilled hole. (Drilling a hole produces holes
>> that are not round!)
>> Reaming a hole makes it perfectly round.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
Scott posted,
--
>
>piper apparently thought it was a good idea -they're in the belly on every
>cherokee six (integrally located with the fuel selector) >scott
>N4ZW
>A&P / inspector / aircraft restorer / rv-4 builder.
>
For the discussion,
Yes, this is true, but if memory serves right there is also a vent in the
area to prevent vapor buildup. It is interesting to note that current FAR
part 23 airplanes are required to have a sealed, and drained compartment for
these components when located in the cabin. Maybe they learned something.
Also, many aircraft, including Piper either enclose the fuel components when
in front of the firewall or shield them to prevent leaks from spraying
directly on the hot exhaust. This is a good idea in any case. As you put
it, I wouldn't want a leak spraying or dripping fuel on the hot exhaust.
I was concerned about fire in the cabin and choose forward of the firewall.
Due to heat problems with the fuel system (vapor lock) I wish that I had
kept the pump and as much plumbing in the cabin as possible. I would have
built a sealed compartment with an overboard drain however.
Dan Morris
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
Jim,
I was concerned when I read your post. I had talked to a Whelen rep. at
Oshkosh a couple of years ago. I expressed my concern for exactly what you
described. He assured me that if I used the proper shielded cable that I
would have no problem with radio noise. I have a single power pack for
my -4 with which I intend to run 3 strobes. I hope I don't come to regret
this. Do you think shielding the power pack in some way might help?
Joe Rex
RV-4 plumbing+ACY-panel
-----Original Message-----
From: JimNolan +ADw-JimNolan+AEA-kconline.com+AD4-
Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 9:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Strobe Packs
+AD4---+AD4- RV-List message posted by: +ACI-JimNolan+ACI- +ADw-JimNolan+AEA-kconline.com+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4APg- --+AD4- RV-List message posted by: Glenn +ACY- Judi +ADw-glenng+AEA-megsinet.net+AD4-
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg- Hi,
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg- Any thoughts either way on whether I should use a single power supply
+AD4APg- for the strobes and locate it in the fuselage, or 1 of the smaller power
+AD4APg- packs in each wingtip?
+AD4APg-
+AD4APg- -Glenn Gordon
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-Glenn,
+AD4- I had a Whelen Strobe power supply located under the floor pan on my
RV-4.
+AD4-Every time it flashed you could hear a WHOOP WHOOP in the headphones. I
+AD4-changed the power supply and put one in each wingtip. Now I don't hear any
+AD4-noise in the headsets. It's driving me crazy now. I don't know if it's
really working
+AD4-or not when I turn it on.
+AD4-Jim Nolan
+AD4-N444JN
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Battery and rear heat |
<< Tom,
In addition to canopy lifting I have found that the
large RV4 canopy shrinks in the winter. An amazing
amount I might add. Mine lifts up approx 1/8 in in the
back. I was able to add V shaped weatherstriping
around the rear to seal it. I also put two 2 in. holes in
the upper removable baggage compartment to allow
cabin air to exit thru them instead of pressurizing
the cockpit. I have had no comments of drafts or
unbearable cold conditions.
Stew Bergner RV4 CO.
>>
Stew,
I think I will put the Ice princess in the back of yours next week
and give it the real test.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
I thought the horizontal tail surface would be produce a neutral
affect, as far as lifting the tail goes on a runup, since it is
inline with the airflow from the prop. Of course, I have been
wrong one or two (million) times, before.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HOUSEFIXER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
I've only been receiving this list for the last couple of days but that has
been long enough to get a pretty disappointing impression of the lack of
compassion and imagination of posters regarding this particular thread. The
cause of the crash of the N48RV is unknown but posters on this thread seem to
believe that there couldn't have been anything wrong with the aircraft. The
design review and testing indicate that the design is adequate for its
performance parameters, however there are two things that are true about these
tests. The first is that the tests were performed upon a wing structure that
had no history, while the crashed aircraft had been used in air shows and
demonstrations quite frequently. The second is that, as much as some
engineers like to pretend otherwise, the tests performed are an abstraction of
what happens to an actually flying aircraft. While I don't mean to suggest
that there is some profound fault in the current engineering practices of
light aircraft design, I would like to mention the tragedy of the dehaviland
comet, whose string of crashes had the dual effect of removing Great Britain
from the world of civil jet transport manufacture, which ironically the Comet
was the start of, and exposing an absence of understanding of stress and
fatique in the state of the art of aviation design.
I find it unfortunate that people seem to think that the appropriate response
to the aftermath of this accident is to pick sides, and further to assert that
there is no responsibility on the part of Van's Aircraft for the crash. To
read this posts makes me think of the excesses of politics, it seems that
people have a sort of hero worship of Van Grunsven, and respond as if
personally threatened by the prospect of a lawsuit. I dare say that most of
the strongest supporters might not even know Van Grunsven personally. I, for
one, do not see anything wrong with a lawsuit over a factory demonstrator
loosing a wing and two people dying in the crash. I do not believe to
strongly in "personal responsibility" when it comes to complex machines that
have many ways to fail, and many techniques to prevent that failure. I am
appalled by the fact that people are more worried that a lawsuit might
threaten the completion of there prescious project than are interested in
further investigation of reasons for the accident. I am repulsed by the tone
of John Ammeters post which slanders a dead man who by all I have read was a
very accomplished pilot. The fact is that a factory demonstrator is not
supposed to crash while on a demo ride, and is especially not supposed to have
an inflight structural failure what ever the reason. It is the responsibility
of the company to ensure safe operation of its aircraft. The facile trick of
heaping blame on the dead pilot might make some people feel better, perhaps a
little more in control of their own destiny, but frankly it sounds like some
dumb ass civilian version of the right stuff mantra.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott \"Sky\" Smith" <skysmith(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Insurance Comments |
I'd like to respond to comments on SkySmith's lack of timely quote response.
For starters, insurance companies won't quote a risk more than 120 days
ahead of renewal and generally, wait until 30 days ahead for renewals and
new quotes. Typically with the RV program we provide, we can respond
within several days but that is not typical of the service the underwriting
industry normally delivers. I take full responsibility for the service my
company provides but we can not control the underwriting insurance company
where most of the delays occur.
In fact, some underwriting companies are taking 60 to 90 days to issue a
policy, (not SkySmith).
Regarding Paul Lein's request to quote an RV and a Bakeng Duce, I faxed an
RV quote to Paul on the same day I got his completed application
information. The quote was higher than Avemco because the policy was
better. Aviation consumers need to make sure they are making an apples to
apples comparison.
The policy we offered has higher liability limits, $500,000 or $1,000,000
per occurance (bodily injury and property damage) and a sub-limit of
$100,000 per passenger versus Paul Lein's Avemco's quote of $300,000 (total
policy limit) per occurance and $100,000 per person (all bodily injury) and
$100,000 (total) property damage.
For example, your airplane crashes into a $300,000 house (totalled), kills
2 persons outside of the airplane, and kills 1 passenger and you survive
the crash. Avemco will only pay $300,000 in total on the claim: $100,000
max on the house, $100,000 max per person (killing 3 persons maxes out the
policy coverage by itself) and $10,000 limit to any passenger related to
you. For anything not covered by Avemco, guess who they will come after?
Our quote at $1,000,000 per occurance does not have sub-limits on persons
outside of the airplane. The passengers are the only ones limited to the
$100,000 limit. Additionally, there is no sub-limit on the property
damage. That means, there is $900,000 available after the passenger is
considered.
Our $1,000,000 full coverage quote was only $27 higher than our $500,000
quote. I don't know what Paul's Avemco quote was but typically Avemco
policies have wording that excludes losses due to defective or inadequate
designs, plans, materials, or workmanship. Effectively, Paul's coverage is
for pilot error or acts of nature.
Paul asked for a quote on his Bakeng Duce when the policy expires in
September of 1999 but the underwriting companies refuse to quote more than
90 days in advance of renewal. As soon as the companies respond to our
requests, we notify our customers.
Mid-term cancelations are normally not in our client's financial best
interests (underwriting companies assess a penalty), so we don't recommend
unless there has been a dramatic reduction of rates (rarely happens).
If you have any questions regarding aviation insurance, please call me
(800-743-1439 or e-mail skysmith(at)mindspring.com) or look me up at the
national airshows, I speak on aviation insurance and other aviation
consumer topics.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Avery's 4" No-hole yoke |
Peter Christensen wrote:
>
>
> Remember all that talk last week about defective or back-ordered Avery 4"
> no-hole squeezer yokes? I talked to Ken Avery of Avery Tools on Thursday,
> and he gave me the whole story. The bottom line is that there was, in
> fact, a batch of these that were obviously uncured, which caused them to
> deform after squeezing a few rivets, especially 1/8" rivets. But Ken said
> that Avery Tools, living up to the reputation they seem to have amont RV
> builders and listers, will replace any defective yoke. They also promised
> my new yoke to be in my hands by next weekend. If you think you have a bad
> yoke from Avery, give him a call. Of course, it goes without saying that
> I'm thrilled with Avery's customer support, but I sure am getting antsy
> without anything to do THIS weekend.
>
> Peter Christensen
> RV-6A, rudder and elevators
> Marietta, GA
>
I had one of those yokes that permanently bent out of shape. I emailed
Avery's and Ken promptly called me to replace it. I sent it in about a
week ago expect another one soon. Yes, very good customer support.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
>
>I've only been receiving this list for the last couple of days but that has
>been long enough to get a pretty disappointing impression of the lack of
>compassion and imagination of posters regarding this particular thread. The
>cause of the crash of the N48RV is unknown but posters on this thread seem to
>believe that there couldn't have been anything wrong with the aircraft.
Whole bunch snipped for brevity----
The facile trick of
>heaping blame on the dead pilot might make some people feel better, perhaps a
>little more in control of their own destiny, but frankly it sounds like some
>dumb ass civilian version of the right stuff mantra.
>
>
I read that you're new on the list so I'll be brief and gentle with
you. Personally, I do know Van and I know without any hesitation that
he is completely honest and has built the best aircraft kit on the
market today. I know he would never allow any design of his to be
sold until it is as completely safe as reasonably possible.
I use the term 'reasonably possible' since it is not possible to build
an aircraft that can not be broken when stressed beyond its designed
limits. Since you sign yourself 'Housefixer' let me use a house
design as an example. Simply, could you build a house that could
withstand 200 mph winds and the associated debris being flung about?
Of course, you could but how many people would want to live in a
stressed concrete blockhouse with 4" Lexan windows and vault style
doors? So, we build houses that perform their function for 99% of the
time. Aircraft are built the same way; built to perform under certain
limitations. The key to safe flight is for the pilot to know and
respect those limitations.
All that said, I'd like to welcome you to the list and hope you learn
much from listening and asking questions. We are here because we wish
our aircraft to be safe and well built.
Many friendships have been made from this List. We would hope you
find the same experience.
BTW, many of us have found it useful to sign our names, location and
type of aircraft along with whether building or flying (or in my case,
sold).
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs- power supply access |
<< I was referring to the situation with pop riveted tips...which I'm
planning on. I hate nutplates! Once those tips are on, I hope they're
on for good. Removing screws or drilling out pop rivets in the event the
tip must be removed someday would likely chip paint with either means of
attachment. Bummer. Oh well, I'm not building a show plane...just a GO
plane! >>
I tell folks to mount 'em on the front of the spar, so they could be serviced
thru the Duckworks landing lite lens hole. I don't care for those wingtip
nutplates either....
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | QB Rocket kits- Huh? Since when? |
Whats a Quick Build Rocket Kit??? I'm a new RV List subscriber who's
just ordered an rv8aqb. I'm afraid your answer is going to make me sick!
EWS
>>
I sure don't want to make you sick!
We plan the intro at Sun-n-Fun this April. Look for us in the
Bohannon/Mattituck/Team Rocket tent, right out front. Limited demo rides will
be available.
As the feds will allow a kit manufacturer to assemble 'just so much' of a kit
(49%, you know) for the builder, and the Rocket is very close in parts count
and assembly style to the -8, the two kits appear (upon delivery) very
similiar. I'm not going to get into a "mine is better than yours" discussion
on the list: both have their merits. Contact me off-list for more info if
desired.
Heck, I thought RV-listers knew about this! Maybe I'd better insert some sort
of regular announcement. Lister comments welcome on this one.
Check six!
Mark Frederick
Team Rocket Inc
80 CR 406
Taylor, TX
76574
512.365.8131
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
Well, it would if the ground wasn't there. I expect that that the
lower part of the prop wash will hit the ground and be deflected.
The average air hitting the tail will probably be at some angle
between the thrust line and level with the ground. Thus it should be
hitting the HS from below its chord line, and produce an upward force.
Just my opinion. I don't have any data to back any of this up.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
>
> I thought the horizontal tail surface would be produce a neutral
> affect, as far as lifting the tail goes on a runup, since it is
> inline with the airflow from the prop. Of course, I have been
> wrong one or two (million) times, before.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
In a message dated 1/16/99 4:07:10 PM Central Standard Time,
HOUSEFIXER(at)aol.com writes:
> The fact is that a factory demonstrator is not
> supposed to crash while on a demo ride, and is especially not supposed to
> have
> an inflight structural failure what ever the reason. It is the
> responsibility
> of the company to ensure safe operation of its aircraft.
So basically your saying that if the pilot made an error that cause the crash.
Well thats still Vans fault as he should have designed a plane that cant
crash. So when I drove my car to fast on the snow and went in the ditch I
should sue Chevy as its there fault for making a car that crashed, even though
the car went in the ditch due to my actions.
An aircraft, car, boat etc is only as safe as the person controlling it. If
the person controlling the craft tries to make it do something its not suppose
to do its the fault of the controller not the builder.
I would think you a lawyer at heart here as if you take your logic futher. I
could sue god and the power companies for the snowstorm 2 weeks ago that wiped
out m power here in wisconsin. I mean the power isnt suppose to go out. Or
we could sue Matt since his server went down. It has to be his fault since he
runs it right.
You need to use some common since.
If the NTSB said the plane was defective and thats what caused the crash and
the death of the 2 people. Fine you can sue Vans and sue for millions. I
have no problem with that as I am sure most people dont. But to sue a company
when the plane was deemed fine. And also when the pilot was a test pilot for
the company. he knew the risks everyday of getting into a plane.
You kind of remind me of slick willie. It wasnt sex, it was oral sex. I mean
give me a break, this country has more lawyers then the rest of the world
combined. DO you see a problem with that. I do
Chris Wilcox, RIA, President
CGW Insurance/Investments
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
> The facile trick of heaping blame on the dead pilot might make some
> people feel better, perhaps a
> little more in control of their own destiny, but frankly it sounds
> like some dumb ass civilian version of the right stuff mantra.
The problem here, is that all too often, a jury of our "peers" can
actually be made to believe this crap.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
Ferdfly(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/15/99 11:19:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com writes:
>
> <<
> At the advice of several of the list, I have decided to remove my fuel tank
> access covers which were previously sealed with the cork gaskets and
> Aviation Form-A-Gasket (wings complete but not installed yet). I am going
> to reseal them with ProSeal. I assume that no cork gaskets are used in this
> case. Is that true? (if not, the old gaskets are actually in fine
> condition... I could probably reuse them).
>
> Doug (RV-4 fuselage)
> >>
> Man, if it aint broke, dont fix it! I`m runnin cork gaskets and fuel lube.
> It`s working fine Fred
LaForge RV-4 0-360 CS, battery
> between my feet. It lands better with a passenger.
>
I second the motion. Break before fix.
I land better with an audience too.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mt Paint |
In a message dated 1/15/99 5:39:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us writes:
<< I saw so I want to resubmit it. Is powder coating
acceptable?? Will it
make crack detection too difficult?? Will it mees up
the metalurgy(sp?)
properties??
>>
My neighbor's 6A has powder coated engine mount and has 160 hours with no
problems. I decided not to powder coat primarily because it is very difficult
to touch up and figure I would probably scratch it sometime down the road and
now I would not have corrosion protection where it was scratched.
Bernie Kerr, 6A mounting engine, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
Von,
Have you looked to see if you can put a couple of holes in some side
structure for the hooks for a bungee cord. You could stretch it over the
stick to hold it back and then remove and stow it when it's no longer
needed. It may not be practical but just a thought. AL
>
>When I had my RV-4, the only time I had a problem with the tail rising
>was on start-up, and I have seen others do this also. The problem is if
>you have one hand on throttle, other on start switch, the stick is
>floating free. Then if the engine surges a little on start up, the tail
>comes up before you can get your hand on the stick. It wakes you up fast!
>What I need is a third hand coming out of the belly area, :) but since
>that is impractical, some method to hold the stick back during start and
>taxi would be nice. Any ideas here?
>Von Alexander
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Together or Apart? |
Capt. Steven DiNieri wrote:
>
>
> i was concidering priming the exterior of the controll surfaces before i
> start the wings. any reason i should not? also , has anyone painted the
> parts in thier respective base colors as they build?
> Steven DiNieri
> Capsteve(at)wzrd.com
> Wings in the works!!!
Steven - I primed all my parts before I started building them and had only to
touch up before painting. Don't paint separate parts until you are ready to
paint the entire plane because it is often very difficult to get a good color
match from different mixes. When you are ready for final color, mix all the
paint up together except for the catalysts. then you will be assured of the same
hue on each part.
Hope this helps.
DGM - RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Online RV Chat Webpage |
For those of you who missed Mitch's post, he has put together a web based
chat program on his webpage that is much easier to use than the IRC chat
programs. Come hang out there with us:
http://www.aftershock.org/chat/rv_chat.htm
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
For what it's worth, I'm using the single pack power supply mounted under
the seat in my Kitfox. The shielded power cable is routed right along side
my antenna cable for a couple of feet, and I have never had any
interference in four years of flying it. I am going to use three strobes
on my 8, so will again use the single Whelen power pack.
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q #591 starting left elevator
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint Together or Apart? |
>
>i was concidering priming the exterior of the controll surfaces before i
>start the wings. any reason i should not? also , has anyone painted the
>parts in thier respective base colors as they build?
>Steven DiNieri
>Capsteve(at)wzrd.com
>Wings in the works!!!
>
Captn' Steve;
Keep in mind that you need to apply the top coat to most primers within a
certain period, usually seven days at the most, in order to get a good
chemical bond. Otherwise you will have to scuff up the primed surface
before applying the top coat.
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q #591
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Hormann" <dhormann(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
-----Original Message-----
From: HOUSEFIXER(at)aol.com <HOUSEFIXER(at)aol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 16, 1999 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: N48RV Lawsuit
While you make some good points about the problems associated with complex
systems of which an airplane is certainly one, I beleive that looking more
closely at the facts as we know them to date would rule out many of the
things that you mention.
>The cause of the crash of the N48RV is unknown but posters on this thread
seem to
>believe that there couldn't have been anything wrong with the aircraft.
The tendency toward that belief is predecated on the long history of safety
associated with Richard VanGrunsven and the airplanes that he has designed,
over 2000 of which are now flying.
The design review and testing indicate that the design is adequate for its
>performance parameters, however there are two things that are true about
these
>tests. The first is that the tests were performed upon a wing structure
that
>had no history, while the crashed aircraft had been used in air shows and
>demonstrations quite frequently.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "no history". In fact we know that
the wing was built by an amateur builder and that it was tested using
accepted methods for aircraft. Van's insistence on using an amateur built
wing speaks volumes about his conservative approach to engineering. He
knows that these airplanes aren't built by A&P mechanics and therefore
designs and tests them accordingly.
I'm also not sure as to what you mean by the fact that the airplane was
demonstrated frequently and used in airshows. While we can only take the
word of the pilots that have flown it that it wasn't flown outside of it's
approved flight envelope, the mere fact that the airplane had been flown
before doesn't mean that it wasn't safe. Until recently I was a partner in
an airplane that it is 57 years old. I wouldn't have any qualms about
flying it through any of the aerobatic maneuvers that it is approved for.
>Second is that, as much as some engineers like to pretend otherwise, the
tests performed are an abstraction of what happens to an actually flying
aircraft.
Really, would you care to establish some references by which you make this
claim or is this just off the top of your head.? Do you think that we should
test the airframe to destruction during actual flight? Will you be the test
pilot?
>While I don't mean to suggest
>that there is some profound fault in the current engineering practices of
>light aircraft design, I would like to mention the tragedy of the
dehaviland
>comet, whose string of crashes had the dual effect of removing Great
Britain
>from the world of civil jet transport manufacture, which ironically the
Comet
>was the start of, and exposing an absence of understanding of stress and
>fatique in the state of the art of aviation design.
First off, the Comet was not a light aircraft, but rather an incredibly
complex machine that failed due to metal fatigue caused by it's cabin
pressurization system. This was new technology that nobody anticipated
would be a problem. The RV-8 is a design utilizing proven concepts in
building aircraft. Literally thousands of airplanes have been built
utilizing similar, proven technology. Also the state of the art of aircraft
testing and metalurgical testing has advanced somewhat since the days of the
Comet, over 40 years ago.
>I find it unfortunate that people seem to think that the appropriate
response
>to the aftermath of this accident is to pick sides, and further to assert
that
>there is no responsibility on the part of Van's Aircraft for the crash.
>read this posts makes me think of the excesses of politics, it seems that
>people have a sort of hero worship of Van Grunsven, and respond as if
>personally threatened by the prospect of a lawsuit.
Nobody here is picking sides. Rather we're all trying to make some sense
out of this tragedy. Still, since this list is entirely made up of those who
have built, are building or are thinking of building one of Van's designs,
it shouldn't come as any suprise that we are supporting him. That doesn't
mean that we believe he is a god or free from human error. Van himself
would certainly laugh at that idea. However, many of us have seen how when
it come's to a law suit, "fault" is sometimes conveniently laid at the feet
of the person with the deepest pockets, irregardless of truth.
>I do not believe to
>strongly in "personal responsibility" when it comes to complex machines
that
>have many ways to fail, and many techniques to prevent that failure.
I'm curious as to whether you are a pilot. The process by which I became
one included long discussions as to the responsibility of the person at the
controls. Aside from truly unforseen mechanical failures or acts of God,
the pilot is ultimately responsible for the conduct of the flight. That
responsibility comes from the simple hard fact that the pilot and his
passengers are the one's most impacted by the pilot's skill and decision
making
I am
>appalled by the fact that people are more worried that a lawsuit might
>threaten the completion of there prescious project than are interested in
>further investigation of reasons for the accident. I am repulsed by the
tone
>of John Ammeters post which slanders a dead man who by all I have read was
a
>very accomplished pilot.
Anyone who knew John, and I knew him only by reputation and from an
occasional hello at the airport where we both hangared our airplanes would
tell you that he was a very experienced pilot. His biography, posted on
Van's website detailed a long and varied flying career. He was also, like
all of us, a human being .
The fact is that a factory demonstrator is not
>supposed to crash while on a demo ride,
Well, duh!!
and is especially not supposed to have
>an inflight structural failure what ever the reason.
Whatever gave you that idea? If you fly any aircraft beyond its design
limits, you are a test pilot my friend. Airplanes have been succumbing to
similar failures for as long as pilots have flown them. If you pull 9 g's
in an aircraft limited to 3, you're going to pull the wings off. Your
statement would be like saying that a car shouldn't ever crash even if
someone points it at a concrete bridge abutment and floors it.
>It is the responsibility
>of the company to ensure safe operation of its aircraft.
Correction: It is the responsibility of the company to take all REASONABLE
and PRUDENT steps to ensure that company airplanes are flown safely. No
human pilot is a robot that can be programmed to be free of error.
>The facile trick of
>heaping blame on the dead pilot might make some people feel better, perhaps
a
>little more in control of their own destiny, but frankly it sounds like
some
>dumb ass civilian version of the right stuff mantra.
My friend, there is no happy ending to this story. For those of us who
fly and don't get our vicarious thrills from Tom Wolfe novels, anytime a
tragedy like this happens we silently reminds ourselves that "there but for
the grace of God go I". Making a serious mistake in the air doesn't end
with the words "Game Over" flashing on the computer screen, along with an
invitation to deposit another quarter and try again. The loss of a pilot who
was part of a team that we all admire was bad enough. That this pilot was
also a friend, father and husband makes it that much harder to accept.
To date, at least 2000 examples of Van's engineering credentials are
flying, with a safety record that is the envy of the aviation community. In
the absence of any evidence of a design failure we must look at the only
alternative. Perhaps further analysis will point to some other "smoking
gun". Personally, I'm not holding my breath. Awhile back I was at a
builder's group meeting where Van talked about the results of the wing
testing following the crash. While one might have expected him to be
naturally relieved by the findings, he was nonetheless visibly subdued by
the fact that it wasn't going to bring John Morgan back. He went on to
state his commitment to a complete, thorough investigation. I believed him
then, and I believe him now.
Sorry for the very long post, but I had to get this out of my system.
I'm heading back to my garage to work on my RV-6. My son, who's five years
old and the very heart of my existence, tells me repeatedly that he want's
to go for a ride when I'm finished. If I will have any concern for his
safety, it will be due to my own level of skill as a builder and pilot, and
not to Van's design.
Respectfully,
Douglas J. Hormann
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Lifting tail on run up |
>>I thought the horizontal tail surface would be produce a neutral
>>affect, as far as lifting the tail goes on a runup, since it is
>>inline with the airflow from the prop. Of course, I have been
>>wrong one or two (million) times, before.
>>
>>
>
>Picture the Horiz Stab and its angle with the ground. True, the prop
>will be 'blowing' air back perpendicular to its plane, but the air
>cannot blow into the ground so it is being forced into a flow along
>the ground thus the HS is at a positive angle of attack relative to
>the air flow.
>
I think a major reason for this is that the pivot point for the tail
lifting is the locked wheel at the ground level with the engine/prop.
thrust line well above this point. With RV's having a variable position
for the C.G.
(The empty C.G. position depending on how it was built and equipped, and
the variables of how the airplane is loaded payload wise) balance against
a fixed position for the main wheels/pivot point, some RV's have more of
a tendency toward this than others.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
>My advice would be to use the cork gasket with proseal on both sides.
>This way, if you ever have to remove it, you have a chance by slicing
>through the cork with a razor blade. Without the cork in there it
>would
>be very difficult. Better yet, use fuel lube on each side of the
>gasket (
>and under the screw heads ).
>
>
>Regards, Bill N66WD
>
>
>
Just my opinion of course, but I don't think having the cork with the pro
seal will make it any easier to remove.
It doesn't seem like cork cuts any easier than proseal.
I have always prosealed on the covers, and I have had the opportunity to
remove 2 of them (one on an RV that I built and one on an RV someone else
built).
You can cut the proseal "seal" using a putty knife (sharpen it slightly
on a scotchbright wheel) by tapping it around the access cover using a
small plastic mallet.
Cleaning off the old sealant takes far longer than getting the cover off,
but even that's not a difficult job.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank attach angle bracket T-405 position |
M Wentzell) writes:
> M Wentzell)
>
>Greetings,
> I find that the bracket position as indicated on the plans - (2"
>aft of
>inside leading edge) is in conflict with 4 or 5 of my skin to rib
>rivets.
>If I shift the bracket aft about 1/8 inch I will then have clearance
>for
>the shop heads - otherwise I could grind "clearance grooves" on the
>bracket
>edge as needed. Will moving the bracket slightly cause problems when
>attaching to the fuse later? I would much rather move it than grind
>it.
> David Wentzell
> RV6 - Wings
> Racine, WI
>
>
Moving the bracket slightly wont cause you any problems on an RV-6(A).
It probably would on an RV-8A.
It is also totally acceptable to make small reliefs in the bracket for
the rivets if you have interference. As long as you have the proper
finish quality on the brackets it will not reduce strength at all.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
I have used Av-blend in a Ranger engine (6 cyl), and used it on the advice of
Lightplane Maint. Magazine. They then did an article on oil addiatives, and
did not mention A-B. I asked them why. They said that outside of changing oil
every 25-50 hours, there is nothing mo-betta that you can do for your engine.
You can try to find them on the internet under Lightplane Maintenance.
Ed Storo QB-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
>Von,
>
>Have you looked to see if you can put a couple of holes in some side
>structure for the hooks for a bungee cord. You could stretch it over
>the
>stick to hold it back and then remove and stow it when it's no longer
>needed. It may not be practical but just a thought. AL
>
>
Not meaning to slam anyone... but I am concerned that lurkers on he list
will get the idea that every time you start the engine on a tail dragger
RV that it will be trying to stand on it's nose and destroy your
expensive propeller.
This is just not the case (unless the airplane has a severe C.G.
problem).
A properly tuned and maintained Lycoming can always be started at a
throttle setting that isn't anywhere close to high enough to causing this
to happen.
If you are doing full throttle ground runs of the engine it is a
different story and the airplane should always be chocked and have the
tail firmly anchored to something to be sure this wont happen.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
>
>
> >My advice would be to use the cork gasket with proseal on both sides.
---------- snip ----------
> >Regards, Bill N66WD
> >
> >
> >
> Just my opinion of course, but I don't think having the cork with
the pro
> seal will make it any easier to remove.
> It doesn't seem like cork cuts any easier than proseal.
> I have always prosealed on the covers, and I have had the
opportunity to
> remove 2 of them (one on an RV that I built and one on an RV someone
else
> built).
>
> You can cut the proseal "seal" using a putty knife (sharpen it
slightly
> on a scotchbright wheel) by tapping it around the access cover using a
> small plastic mallet.
>
> Cleaning off the old sealant takes far longer than getting the cover
off,
> but even that's not a difficult job.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
Scott is right. I have taken the rear baffle off of two RV-4 tanks to
repair a leaks for a friend using the method that he descrives. All
the original pieces were reused. This material was only 0.032. We did
not damage the 0.032 skin or rear baffle.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< Does anyone have experience or informed opinions of the benefits (if any)
of using AV Blend (around $22.00/12oz can) in the Lycomings? >>
I use it in my new O-360-A1A. I'm not sure that it does anything, but the
general consensus (from TBO Advisor, LPM and Howard Fenton) seems to be that
it does no harm, and may in fact do some prophylactic (don't you love it when
I talk dirty?) good in keep valves from sticking. I'll let the list know how
the first wobble test goes in a year or two.
In the mean time, do your normal filter/oil changes, use a good straight
weight oil and lean aggressively and you're more than 90% there.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ammeterj(at)home.com (John Ammeter) |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
"Housefixer" mentioned something that I want clarified immediately. I
didn't notice this particular paragraph in his original post:
>I am
>>appalled by the fact that people are more worried that a lawsuit might
>>threaten the completion of there prescious project than are interested in
>>further investigation of reasons for the accident. I am repulsed by the
>tone
>>of John Ammeters post which slanders a dead man who by all I have read was
>a
>>very accomplished pilot.
I am sure he was referring to the below quote from my post to the
group:
>Instead of his widow sueing Van's maybe Van should be sueing her for the value
> of the aircraft plus any moneys lost because of the accident caused by her husbands
>careless and incompetent flight skills. That suit makes as much sense as her
suit.
I don't want anyone to believe that I was denigrating John Morgan's
flight skills or his judgement. I do not know what kind of pilot he
was but I have heard that he was extremely competent. What I was
intending to say was that sueing Van made as much sense as accusing
Morgan of being an incompetent pilot. Neither idea is logical in any
sense.
"Housefixer" seems to have decided that he/she does not want to post
anymore; that may be because of embarrassment caused by his/her
original post. Or, it may be that he/she was a troll; wanting only to
raise havoc and create discontent. Whatever, I just want to clear the
record; I am not and never have said that John Morgan was an
incompetent pilot. We may never know the exact cause of the accident
but we do know that it did not occur because of reckless pilotage by
John Morgan.
John Ammeter
Seattle WA
USA
1975 JH-5
RV-6 (sold 4/98)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Van Artsdalen <scott_rv4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Hinged door inside fuel tank |
Hello listers, perhaps you can help me settle something with another
RV builder. We are both building -4's and were comparing notes this
afternoon. He was asking if I had done this or that when conversation
turned to the fuel tanks that I am currently building. He asked if I
had placed that little door inside on the second rib. I told him no,
that hinged door was only necessary if you were installing an inverted
fuel system. He said that it is necessary for all installations.
What do you all say?
=
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 #1054 - Wings
"The essence of character is doing what's right
even when nobody's looking."
J.C. Watts
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring and crack formation |
My gut instinct, without seeing the part of course, is to leave it alone.
You are likely to do more damage drilling the horn out and re-riveting than
would be gained.
FWIW,
Tom Craig-Stearman
hitting the RV-4 hard this 3-day weekend
>
> This is probably a very silly question, but better safe than sorry;
>I was seconds away from starting to rivet the right elevator skin (RV-6A)
>to the skeleton and discovered that I had never deburred the inboard end of
>the elevator spar after trimming it off.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
> Jim,
>
> I was concerned when I read your post. I had talked to a Whelen rep. at
> Oshkosh a couple of years ago. I expressed my concern for exactly what you
> described. He assured me that if I used the proper shielded cable that I
> would have no problem with radio noise. I have a single power pack for
> my -4 with which I intend to run 3 strobes. I hope I don't come to regret
> this. Do you think shielding the power pack in some way might help?
>
> Joe Rex
> RV-4 plumbing+ACY-panel
Joe,
I have an Electronic Engineering Degree and I installed all my equipment
as if my life depended on it. All shielding was done correctly. I still got WOOP
WOOP, WOOP WOOP, WOOP WOOP. You may have better luck. I will say that
the only time you heard it was when you were at idle. I figured it went away
because louder noises after takeoff covered it up.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt. Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
glen, fwiw
just got through ripping out a single power suply unit in my cherokee
and put in the dual wing tip ones. i like the idea that if the one goes
(which it did, you dont lose everthing) unless its a fuse...
in my six-a i'm using platenuts to hold on all fiberglass so removing
wingtips should pose no problem.
i bought the less expensive brand and found they are compatable with the
whelen bulb connectors.
Steven DiNieri
Capsteve(at)wzrd.com
Wings in the works!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HOUSEFIXER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
In order to avoid being referred to as "The Nameless One", (though frankly it
is kind of impressive sounding,) let me divulge. My name is Robert Miller, I
live in beautiful Portland Oregon, I am building an RV-4 which I took over
from the original builder who had some unconventional ideas that I am fixing
so that I can take personal responsibility for the deaths of all the mortals
that my ineptly flown but structurally sound airplane lands upon. But
seriously I would like to thank everyone for their posts which seem quite
tolerant of dissent, which seems to be what I am doing. I would like to say
that the tone of the posts were thoughtful and reasoned which I feel are rare
qualities in the listserv world which tends towards the inflamed and
hysterical. I realize that this is a hot button topic but I thought that my
opinions about the issue had as much value as anyone elses, and as they seem
to run counter to what most people think should be stated. After all if you
didn't like them its not like you had to go to the trouble of actually
throwing them away physically. So aside from one fellow who thinks I am some
sort of spy the only negative in the posts has been the occasional assumption
that I am a simpleton who thinks that the world should be padded from all risk
and that an RV flies at FL 40 at 400 Knots, (not yet anyway.) I took a ride
in "Not N48RV" while I was deciding which aircraft to build and it was great.
I purchased my project after the accident and I would have purchased an RV8
except that I got a good deal and I realistically don't have enough money to
build an RV8 in any kind of timeley manner. I picked RVs specifically because
they are a strong wonderfull aircraft with an excellent reputation and an
experienced building material. They are the best value in a kit build
aircraft available today. The thing is I am a skeptic and feel that with such
a paucity of information, planes flying over hours flown, I am wary of
blithely assuming all is rosey just because an unflown wing passes some
destructive tests while the factory demonstrator has lost a wing and two
people have died. This does not mean that I doubt Van or Van's aircraft,
there inegrity, skill etc. etc. It does mean that absent a definative
explanation of what happened, (likely something that will never be had,) some
prudence in deciding who or what caused what is in order
As to the discomfort of the lawsuit, I would feel very differently if the
pilot had been the builder of the aircraft, in my mind even if there is a
design flaw in that case its your own stupid fault for playing around with
flying machines. I guess part of my dismay about the posts that prompted mine
was that I could see myself dead in the demonstrator, my fate having been
substantially out of my hands and I would feel damn sure that I would be in
the right to sue, the pilot, the factory, the designer. Because my
expectation, my reasonable expecation is that the wing of the demonstrator is
not going to fail during a demo flight. Of course I would be dead, and if my
wife sued she would be insulted, I would be disparaged as an irresponsible
parasite, and no one would dare say anything like maybe there is a substantial
amount of grey about this.
If the length of this post offends you, than why did you read it?
Thankyou all and I hope to meet some of you in person,(no cheap shots pleas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N58RV Lawsuit |
HOUSEFIXER(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> As to the discomfort of the lawsuit, I would feel very differently if the
> pilot had been the builder of the aircraft, in my mind even if there is a
> design flaw in that case its your own stupid fault for playing around with
> flying machines. I guess part of my dismay about the posts that prompted mine
> was that I could see myself dead in the demonstrator, my fate having been
> substantially out of my hands and I would feel damn sure that I would be in
> the right to sue, the pilot, the factory, the designer. Because my
> expectation, my reasonable expecation is that the wing of the demonstrator is
> not going to fail during a demo flight. Of course I would be dead, and if my
> wife sued she would be insulted, I would be disparaged as an irresponsible
> parasite, and no one would dare say anything like maybe there is a substantial
> amount of grey about this.
>
> If the length of this post offends you, than why did you read it?
>
> Thankyou all and I hope to meet some of you in person,(no cheap shots pleas
>
Robert
Glad you put a name to your post. There is no magic
that makes the factory demonstrator wing any better
or worse than any other builders wing. You don't
know what went on in the cockpit of that airplane
that day. Mr Hull that was with John was not just
a prospective buyer he was also a friend of Johns.
John may have allowed him more liberties while flying
and he misjudged a maneuver we probably will never
know. What we do know is that the airplane was stressed
beyond its design limits and this is not in any way
the fault of the factory.
BTW with you living in Portland there is a good
chance that we have or will meet so if you see my
airplane come by and say hello and we can discuss this
in person. I apologize for my previous strongly worded
post but normally when someone post on a hot topic
like this one and does not sign a name it is a troll.
--
Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
Hi All,
When I first heard of the lawsuit over the crash of N58RV, that was an interesting
and informatiive post.
After that post, a thread developed which could only be described as becoming
increasedly unhealthy. I now find myself reading each post just to see who's going
to flame who and how bad. I'm just a guilty as the next guy for sitting back and
enjoying the bloodletting.
I believe everyone has an opinion on what happened or didn't happen, what the
outcome will be or not be if it goes to court.
In any case, the thread is enjoyable and I think everyone should do his best
to
contribute in some way, as much misinformation, hostility and rudeness as they
deem fit.
Some people on the other hand have shared real concerns and exhibited good
restraint from criticizing other people that have a different opinion as to the
merits
and possible outcome of this accident. Those e-mails, I read also but they aren't
as enjoyable to read if it doesn't include some form of hostility or rudeness.
Just a thought
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbirdman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
For what its worth, I located my Whelen power supply forward of the instrument
panel as a way to keep the tail light on my RV-6. Its less than a foot away
from my KLX-135 and intercom. Shields were grounded at the power supply end
only, and I have zero noise when the strobes are in operation. Could it be
that some equipment has more signal rejection capability than others?
Gary Bray
N827GB
Carmel, Maine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
I've looked for an hour through the archives and can't find
anything exactly on point. I want to be able to remove the
rudder fairing so I can access the nav light. As you folks
will recall, this is unlike the other tips because it fits
OVER the metal as opposed to under it. So, what happens
here? I'm wondering if I can successfully countersink the
fiberglass for -6 screws without the screw eventually
pulling through. I really would like something flush. I've
considered trying to sand down around each screw hole in the
fiberglass and putting in a dimpled washer, then covering it
again with fiberglass. Does this sound reasonable? I'm not
so concerned with time because I'm out of money and almost
done with the emp kit. Please advise. thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder bottom |
Adrian;
Why not think of it as the cowl. Some of us used countersunk washers to
attach the top of the cowl to the fus. There are finishing and Tinnerman
washers that are ideal for this. In my 97-98 Aircraft Spruce. page 91 they
are listed. I used the tinnermans because I was of the opinion that they
provided more surface contact to the fiberglass, there fore less likely to
'pull through'. I elected not to paint the washers and screws. Reasoning
was that they invariably crack, chip or something to the paint that covers
them. Being stainless steel, they just sat there and shined like as if that
was what I intended. Finished job was very eye appealing to me, but not to
those who like to see a complete expanse of pure paint covering.
No doubt about it, putting in anchor nuts back there on the tail does add
some weight. The choice is yours. Either way, I'll bet you get it worked
out to please you.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
>I'm wondering if I can successfully countersink the
>fiberglass for -6 screws without the screw eventually
>pulling through. I really would like something flush. I've
>considered trying to sand down around each screw hole in the
>fiberglass and putting in a dimpled washer, then covering it
>again with fiberglass. Does this sound reasonable? I'm not
>so concerned with time because I'm out of money and almost
>done with the emp kit. Please advise. thanks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
Joe Rex wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> I was concerned when I read your post. I had talked to a Whelen rep. at
> Oshkosh a couple of years ago. I expressed my concern for exactly what you
> described. He assured me that if I used the proper shielded cable that I
> would have no problem with radio noise. I have a single power pack for
> my -4 with which I intend to run 3 strobes. I hope I don't come to regret
> this. Do you think shielding the power pack in some way might help?
>
> Joe Rex
I have been running a single pack with three strobes on my 6A, with no interference
problems. I
used the shielded wire provided by whelen, but my suply is mounted on back side
of the baggage
comp bulkhead.
Unfortunately, as electric bob will attest, the noise/interference potential is
limitless. If
you are going to make your decision on anecdotal data you will find almost an infinite
number of
combinations. My unsubstantiated opinion is that if you use modern comm and intercom,
shielded
and wired per spec, and the whelen, wired and shielded per directions, that any
combo they sell
will work fine. Whatever hazard may be posed by running the "high voltage" lines
through the
wing is another matter. It doesn't worry me but it seems to worry some. I leave
it to them to
explain that risk, if any.
DL Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
>
>Does anyone have experience or informed opinions of the benefits (if any)
>of using AV Blend (around $22.00/12oz can) in the Lycomings? Thanks for any
>info.
>Do n-t arch-ve
Sorry John, this one goes in...
>RV-6A ,Flying, Salida, CO
This subject has been discussed here at length. I posted a loooooong
editorial about oil additives in general and you can read it by searching
the archives for "oil additive" you will find a post there that has my name
on it. It is long, but the short story is if you spend $25 extra per change
with a 25 hr drain interval you have spent 20% of the cost of your overhaul
on mouse milk. O-320's and O-360s routinely run to TBO and I doubt if you
will ever recover your money.
It is my understanding that AV-Blend does not contain PTFE. Personally I
would not use any product that did. The largest manufacturer of these
products paid a massive fine because they could not prove their claims.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal Oil Blender in Real life.
dougr(at)petroblend.com
www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
Scott and Others;
You are certainly right in that 99% of the time, the engine will start at
a low idle if set up correctly. But there is still that 1% or so, when
for whatever reason, such as pumping the throttle, etc, whether it be a
misjudgement on the part of the pilot or whatever, when the engine will
surge a little. As I said, we've all seen this happen at the airshows as
the pilots fire up to go home. Based on this, it would still be a good
safety precaution to have some way to hold the stick full back during
start. I think this would only be necessary when flying by yourself (no
weight in back). Without the stick full back, it simply doesnt take much
of a surge to start to raise the tail, based on my experience.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
>>Von,
>>
>>Have you looked to see if you can put a couple of holes in some side
>>structure for the hooks for a bungee cord. You could stretch it over
>>the
>>stick to hold it back and then remove and stow it when it's no longer
>>needed. It may not be practical but just a thought. AL
>>
>>
>Not meaning to slam anyone... but I am concerned that lurkers on he
>list
>will get the idea that every time you start the engine on a tail
>dragger
>RV that it will be trying to stand on it's nose and destroy your
>expensive propeller.
>This is just not the case (unless the airplane has a severe C.G.
>problem).
>A properly tuned and maintained Lycoming can always be started at a
>throttle setting that isn't anywhere close to high enough to causing
>this
>to happen.
>
>If you are doing full throttle ground runs of the engine it is a
>different story and the airplane should always be chocked and have the
>tail firmly anchored to something to be sure this wont happen.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
>These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
>reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rudder bottom |
Adrian;
I just epoxied a couple of 'T' nuts inside the rudder bottom, so that you
can remove the tail light without needing access to the back side. I then
pop-riveted the rudder bottom on, countersinking the fiberglass and using
the CS-4 flush pops.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>I've looked for an hour through the archives and can't find
>anything exactly on point. I want to be able to remove the
>rudder fairing so I can access the nav light. As you folks
>will recall, this is unlike the other tips because it fits
>OVER the metal as opposed to under it. So, what happens
>here? I'm wondering if I can successfully countersink the
>fiberglass for -6 screws without the screw eventually
>pulling through. I really would like something flush. I've
>considered trying to sand down around each screw hole in the
>fiberglass and putting in a dimpled washer, then covering it
>again with fiberglass. Does this sound reasonable? I'm not
>so concerned with time because I'm out of money and almost
>done with the emp kit. Please advise. thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bottom |
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 8:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: rudder bottom
>
>I'm wondering if I can successfully countersink the
>fiberglass for -6 screws without the screw eventually
>pulling through. I really would like something flush. I've
>considered trying to sand down around each screw hole in the
>fiberglass and putting in a dimpled washer, then covering it
again with fiberglass.
The gear leg intersections (both upper and lower) on my -4 are attached with
countersunk #6 screws in polyester resin fiberglass. No tinnerman washers
and they have not pulled through at all. I would also like to add that it
shouldn't be necessary to remove the rudder fairing to service the nav light
since a few inches of slack wire will allow it to be pulled out the aft end
of the fairing.
Ivan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Hinged door inside fuel tank |
>that hinged door was only necessary if you were installing an inverted
fuel system. He said that it is necessary for all installations.
What do you all say?<
Scott,
The RV -8 manual says "..a hinged gate valve over the flos through hole in
the #2 rib to prevent the rapid loss of the first 1/2 gallon or so of fuel
from the inverted segment of the tank. For most pilots, inverted flight
will probably seldom exceed 10- 15 seconds duration, making this valve
unnecessary."
Though I'm not big on negative G's, I do enjoy aerobatics and put one in my
8.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
wings complete, fuselage ships in Feb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net (stan burchett) |
| Subject: | Garmin 195 WANTED |
Seeking used Garmin 195 GPSMAP
Please respond off line to sburch(at)norfolk.infi.net
Stan Burchett
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hinged door inside fuel tank |
Scott Van Artsdalen wrote:
>
>
> Hello listers, perhaps you can help me settle something with another
> RV builder. We are both building -4's and were comparing notes this
> afternoon. He was asking if I had done this or that when conversation
> turned to the fuel tanks that I am currently building. He asked if I
> had placed that little door inside on the second rib. I told him no,
> that hinged door was only necessary if you were installing an inverted
> fuel system. He said that it is necessary for all installations.
> What do you all say?
>
> =
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> RV-4 #1054 - Wings
>
It's not necessary on all systems.
I'm building my tanks now and I put the door in the right tank only,
which will be switched to for aerobatics. The little door helps trap
fuel in the bay during manuvers.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
it would still be a good
>safety precaution to have some way to hold the stick full back during
On my RV4 it was difficult to hold the stick back as the start switch was on
the right side, the throttle on the left. This was a real problem during a
hot start as with fuel injection you often need some throttle open to get a
hot engine to start. I found that I had to hold the stick between my knees,
while holding the brakes etc, etc.
On the harmon rockett I put the start button on the left side. Now during a
start, my right arm crosses my body and holds the stick back as I use my
right hand to start the engine. The left hand is busy moving the mixture and
throttle.
The reversal of moving the start button from the right side of the panel to
the left has greatly helped my starting proceedure.
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
| From: | chriskelhand(at)Juno.com (Chris & Kellie D Hand) |
writes:
>
>Mine works really well too...just be sure you screw in the adjustment
>screw
>a tiny bit at a time, and you will see that your skin will lay down
>flat.
>It does not take much at all. Just a fraction of an angle downward.
>Be
>sure you have not dimpled you skin first....(please do not ask me how
>I know
>this)
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
>http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
>Canopy
>
>
Paul and others,
I know you said don't ask, but does the tool mess up dimpled holes?
I am just about ready to start riveting the wing skins on my first wing,
the skins are dimpled and ready to go. But, I haven't done the edge
bending yet.
I was going to order one of those edge rolling tools this week. Can I
not use it on these skins now that I have already dimpled them?
If so, can I just use my hand seamer and still make it look decent?
I considered buying some bolts and nylon rollers and just making an edge
roller tool, but they aren't that expensive to just buy. Has anyone made
their own?
Thanks for you input,
Chris Hand
RV-6A, wings
Seaside, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
Dennis,
Thanks for your encouraging words. I spoke to a very experienced A+ACY-P friend
of mine this morning. His take on the situation was that when there is a
problem with radio noise, it's the power pack, not the shielded cables
causing the problem. He said that the problem, if it exists, can usually be
solved by installing a capacitor inline on the low voltage side of the power
pack. Bob N. can probably explain how this works, my electron-challenged
mind is not quite sure it comprehends the reasons he gave me. I guess if
that is true, doubling the +ACM- of power packs doubles your chances for a
problem.
Joe Rex
RV-4
-----Original Message-----
From: Denis Walsh +ADw-dwalsh+AEA-ecentral.com+AD4-
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Strobe Packs
+AD4---+AD4- RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh +ADw-dwalsh+AEA-ecentral.com+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-:
+AD4-
+AD4APg- --+AD4- RV-List message posted by: +ACI-Joe Rex+ACI- +ADw-jfr+AEA-ix.netcom.com+AD4-
+AD4-I have been running a single pack with three strobes on my 6A, with no
interference problems. I
+AD4-used the shielded wire provided by whelen, but my suply is mounted on back
side of the baggage
+AD4-comp bulkhead.
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
+AD4-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: N58RV Lawsuit |
<< The thing is I am a skeptic and feel that with such
a paucity of information, planes flying over hours flown, I am wary of
blithely assuming all is rosy just because an unflown wing passes some
destructive tests while the factory demonstrator has lost a wing and two
people have died. This does not mean that I doubt Van or Van's aircraft,
there integrity, skill etc. etc. It does mean that absent a definitive
explanation of what happened, (likely something that will never be had,) some
prudence in deciding who or what caused what is in order >>
I too love my -6A and consider it a fantastic aircraft. As one who originally
advanced an opinion questioning the integrity of new spar design after the
RV-8 incident, I continue to be skeptical in this regard and hope that future
incidents of the new -8 spar breaking (in a manner not unlike the original
RV-3 spar) are not forthcoming. I do suppose that it is easier to defend the
living rather than the dead and this is unfortunate. Only time will tell.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: rudder bottom |
<>
IMO it is not necessary to make the rudder bottom removable in order to have
access to the taillight. Graft on a flat piece of fiberglass (FR-4) circuit
board material and install rivnuts or something similar for the two holes that
will attach the taillight housing. My installation uses the tail position
lamp in addition to a strobe bulb, but the housing is basically the same for
just the tail position lamp. Mount the rudder bottom on using CS4-4 pop
rivets.
A single Adel clamp accessible from the front of the bottom front rudder
opening stabilizes the wiring. If this is done, the whole shebang comes out
easily for replacement.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Patrick Kelley <patk(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
You were doing fine until you went after motorcycles and then you
revealed that you don't know what 'inherently' means. I applaud your
intentions and agree with your goals, but don't wrongfully smear another
sport to whitewash problems within this one. Aviation, cycling, and
driving are all risky. The factors that affect that risk are many, and
few are inherent to a sport in general; most are inherent to a
particular activity or equipment. All are manageable, or no one could
have successfully flown, ridden, or driven.
For those education-minded individuals, a good book on risk management
(readable and yet thorough) is Against the Gods by Peter L. Bernstein.
After you are done reading it, you'll better understand the risks you
take daily. You won't be able to justify them any better, but that's
because not everyone has read the book. :)
PatK - RV-6A and 20+ years of commuting on a Harley with only minor
accidents and no injuries. I believe in luck, but not that much
luck....
cd005677(at)mindspring.com wrote:
>
> I think the above may be the problem. People who fly experimental aircraft
> are typically the same people who DO believe strongly in personal
> responsibility in many areas. Every automobile I have owned is capable of
> speeds -far- faster than it can be safely controlled. If I lose control in
> a turn and crash because I tried to do it at 120 mph, I don't feel it is the
> manufacturers fault, just my poor judgement. Motorcycles are -inherently-
> more dangerous than cars (and most airplanes), so much so that I have made a
> decision not to ride them. That is, however -my- decision and I think
> others should be able to make up their own minds. I believe I fully
> understand the risks (and thrills) involved.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com |
| Subject: | Can't judge a book by its cover |
You can't judge a book by its cover.
Thats why we have added the complete table of contents for most of the
books on RV-ation Bookstore. Now you can know exactly what you are
getting BEFORE you click that order button.
Check it out.
Andy Gold
RV-ation Bookstore
http://www.rvbookstore.com
RV-6A N-5060
flying
(see it too on the front page)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 vs. Harmon Rocket II |
Hello, all,
I'm thinking of building a RV-8 or a Harmon Rocket II and would
appreciate any thoughts comparing the two. ...Have there been any
in-flight structural failures of Harmon Rockets, especially considering
its higher speeds? Also, how does the IO-360 and IO-540 compare in
initial cost, operating cost, fuel consumption and cost of overhaul?
Thank you much,
Dylan Caldwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JHeadric(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
<<
A properly tuned and maintained Lycoming can always be started at a
throttle setting that isn't anywhere close to high enough to causing this
to happen.
If you are doing full throttle ground runs of the engine it is a
different story and the airplane should always be chocked and have the
tail firmly anchored to something to be sure this wont happen.
>>
This is absolutely correct. I flew an RV4 for 8 years and never once had the
tail jump up when I started the engine. Just set the throttle for a lower
RPM, in about 1/4" to 1/2".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
"The reversal of moving the start button from the right side of the
panel to
the left has greatly helped my starting proceedure. "
Regarding start buttons, has anyone ever placed it on the stick or
throttle lever itself, maybe in some sort of covered or protected area?
Just a thought...
Dylan Caldwell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
I would like to hear from other builders on how far their glaresheild
extends back past the instrument panel.
The plans don't really give a distance, so it's probably more a matter
of taste. What seems to work well here?
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobe Packs |
>Thanks for your encouraging words. I spoke to a very experienced A+ACY-P
friend
>of mine this morning. His take on the situation was that when there is a
>problem with radio noise, it's the power pack, not the shielded cables
>causing the problem. He said that the problem, if it exists, can usually be
>solved by installing a capacitor inline on the low voltage side of the power
>pack. Bob N. can probably explain how this works, my electron-challenged
>mind is not quite sure it comprehends the reasons he gave me. I guess if
>that is true, doubling the +ACM- of power packs doubles your chances for a
>problem.
I agee that most noises from the strobes (whiney kind) sneaks
out the 14v dc lead and into the rest of the system. Further,
this is a very COMMON complaint about strobe system noises.
The second most common is hearing a "pop" in the audio system
when the strob(s) fire.
The first problem is easily rectified by appropriate filtering
right at the strobe's 14v dc power input connection.
The latter is most felt in VOR systems where wingtip vor antennas
share close space with a strobe fixture. Quite often, the "pop"
complaint comes from the fact that a builder tried to "ground"
wiring from the lighting fixture to the airframe. Here it's important
to follow the wiring diagrams exactly with respect to black (ground)
or braided (shield) wires. These are generally shown to connect
only to wires of the lamp assembly. Don't add any wires to airframe
that are not shown on the diagrams supplied.
The shield supplied with most strobe kits is attached to ground
via pins in the connector at the power supply end and left
un-connected at the lamp fixture. If any part of the lamp
fixture comes into good electrical connection with the airframe,
it should be limited to a wire from the fixture's metal parts
to a ground on the wing tip rib . . . I'd ADD this wire only
if you hear the "pop" and want to reduce it.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck Brietigam <brietig(at)ibm.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
Dylan Caldwell wrote:
>
> "The reversal of moving the start button from the right side of the
> panel to
> the left has greatly helped my starting proceedure. "
>
> Regarding start buttons, has anyone ever placed it on the stick or
> throttle lever itself, maybe in some sort of covered or protected area?
> Just a thought...
>
> Dylan Caldwell
>
Dylan,
I have an F-4 style stick grip on my RV-3. On it I have the starter buttom,
fuel pump switch, landing light switch, mic button and electrical trim for the
rudder and elevator. My right hand stays on the stick while my left hand is free
to accomplish any require action in the cockpit. (hand on throttle, hand on
stick)
I am a firm believer that during an emergency, fly the airplane first. Keep
things simple.
Avoid having to move your hands all around the cockpit to accomplish the simple
tasks of moving switches.
I have never had a problem with this arrangement. It feels very natural to me
(--probably because of my twenty years of Navy flying)
Enjoy
Chuck Brietigam, RV-3's forever!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles H. Ennis" <105523.2542(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
I havn't followed the string on the RV-8 lawsuit for several days. This
afternoon I read a reply from Doug Hormann to "Housefixer".
Mr. Hormann is an eloquent writer and obviously a thinking man. I wish I
had the ability to express myself as he has done. As a fellow pilot and
aircraft builder, I would like to say thanks to Mr. Hormann and hope I have
the opportunity to shake his hand in the future. Well said.
Charlie Ennis, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com> |
On my RV-3, the rudder bottom is riveted to a strip of 1 inch aluminum, with
countersunk -3 flush rivets (strip on the outside, and formed to the curve
of the molded light hole). Then, the 1 inch piece is then countersunk and
attached to the bottom of the rudder with nutplates and #8 (i think, if i
remember right)countersunk screws. Looks pretty good, but is entirely
removable at any time. Not sure if there are any differences in the -6 and
the -3 rudder bottoms though?
Rob Reece
RV-3 SN45 (CN-2-1, priming getting ready, to finish left wing)
Socorro, NM
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of baremetl
> Sent: Sunday, January 17, 1999 9:05 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: rudder bottom
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 8:14 AM
> Subject: RV-List: rudder bottom
>
>
> >
> >I'm wondering if I can successfully countersink the
> >fiberglass for -6 screws without the screw eventually
> >pulling through. I really would like something flush. I've
> >considered trying to sand down around each screw hole in the
> >fiberglass and putting in a dimpled washer, then covering it
> again with fiberglass.
>
> The gear leg intersections (both upper and lower) on my -4 are
> attached with
> countersunk #6 screws in polyester resin fiberglass. No tinnerman washers
> and they have not pulled through at all. I would also like to add that it
> shouldn't be necessary to remove the rudder fairing to service
> the nav light
> since a few inches of slack wire will allow it to be pulled out
> the aft end
> of the fairing.
> Ivan
>
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
Hi,
Does anyone know about the FARs regarding display of N# as relating to
international flight?
I remember reading something about the N# having to be at least 12"
tall for international flight. Would a 12" N# using an "Outlined" font
meet this requirement?
I figure someday I would love to fly to Alaska, and would have to go
through Canada to get there. Has anyone had any experience with this?
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Nose wheel spring orientation (U-611) |
There are two U-611 springs that go on the bottom of the RV-6A nose
gear fork. From drawing SK80 it appears that the two springs "face"
each other (that is, the concave surface of one spring faces the
concave surface of the other). From drawing 62 it is unclear what
orientation is desired. From the archives I've found mention of the
springs being placed back to back (like spoons in a drawer), and
another mention of putting one spring above and one spring below
the "arm" (which I assume means fork).
What's worked for you folks who are flying?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
SK80
Dwg 62
U-611
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary A. Sobek" <rv6flier(at)yahoo.com> |
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know about the FARs regarding display of N# as relating to
> international flight?
>
> I remember reading something about the N# having to be at least 12"
> tall for international flight. Would a 12" N# using an "Outlined"
font
> meet this requirement?
>
> I figure someday I would love to fly to Alaska, and would have to go
> through Canada to get there. Has anyone had any experience with this?
>
> -Glenn Gordon
The 12" N number is to go through the ADIZ. There is no ADIZ between
the 48 states, Canada and Alaska so only the 3" is needed. I spoke
with the Canadian Customs people at AirVenture 98. To operate an
experimental in Canada, I need to send them photo copies of my
paperwork and a $25 Canadian fee to get a 90 day operating permit.
When are you planning the trip? I want to take my -6 there and would
like to do it as a flight with at least one other RV.
=
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell
Flying in So. CA, USA
RV6flier(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
The RV-8's extend a couple of inches past the panel.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Hi,
>
>I would like to hear from other builders on how far their glaresheild
>extends back past the instrument panel.
>
>The plans don't really give a distance, so it's probably more a matter
>of taste. What seems to work well here?
>
>-Glenn Gordon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerrydd(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | Enpennage Fairing (Fiberglass help) |
My enpennage fairing is not even close to fitting and I have hardly any
fiberglass experience. It has about a 1\2 inch gap at the front, Do I
need to cut the fairing in two pieces and start over or does anyone have
another suggestion. Also I have seen some planes at Oshkosh that didn't
have any visible fasteners holding the fairing on. That is what I would
like to do if anyone could help.
Thanks in advance,
Jerry Doyal
(Hopefully flying my RV to Sun N Fun)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
> > At the advice of several of the list, I have decided to remove my fuel
> tank
> > access covers which were previously sealed with the cork gaskets and
> > Aviation Form-A-Gasket (wings complete but not installed yet). I am
> going
> > to reseal them with ProSeal. I assume that no cork gaskets are used in
> this
> > case. Is that true? (if not, the old gaskets are actually in fine
> > condition... I could probably reuse them).
> >
> > Doug (RV-4 fuselage)
> > >>
> > Man, if it aint broke, dont fix it! I`m runnin cork gaskets and fuel
lube.
>
> > It`s working fine
> Fred LaForge RV-4
The cork plus permatex is exactly how I did mine, and now I get to do them
over, plus redo my paint job if I get that ambitious. I say by all means DO
THEM OVER NOW before you make one heck of a mess of your plane.
There may be a world of difference between fuel lube and Form-A-Gasket which
would account for why some have had trouble and others haven't.
You decide, but don't say we didn't warn you...
Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Good <101560.1256(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | RV-6A Nose wheel spring orientation (U-611) |
> Message text written by INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> There are two U-611 springs that go on the bottom of the RV-6A nose
> gear fork. From drawing SK80 it appears that the two springs "face"
> each other (that is, the concave surface of one spring faces the
> concave surface of the other). From drawing 62 it is unclear what
> orientation is desired. From the archives I've found mention of the
> springs being placed back to back (like spoons in a drawer), and
> another mention of putting one spring above and one spring below
> the "arm" (which I assume means fork).
> What's worked for you folks who are flying?
<
Tim,
I've just been working on the nose gear myself. The two pieces go together
with the circumferences touching - i.e. concave to concave.
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI.
RV-6AQ, landing gear.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
Chris & Kellie D Hand wrote:
> I know you said don't ask, but does the tool mess up dimpled holes?
YES! Try it on a piece of scrap if you don't believe us. I think
bakers have discovered this to edge their pie crust.
Richard Reynolds, RV-6A, working on fuselage skeleton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelvin Rempel" <krempel(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for RV-8 empenage kit |
I'm looking to purchase a pre-owned Empennage kit for an RV-8.
Preferrably located in Western Canada and one that has had no work done to
it yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
>I have always prosealed on the covers . . .
>
>Scott McDaniels
So is the verdict to use proseal without the gasket?
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q #591
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ronald Vandervort <rvanderv(at)linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us> |
Dear Glenn,
I extended my glareshield 3 1/4th inches and like it. It has allowed me
to install two of Van's little eyeball lights over the instruments with
good lighting effectiveness for night flying.....although I haven't yet
flown at night I of course can see how it would look at night.
As of this date I have 25 hours on the airplane and the overhang seems
just fine in all respects.
Ron Vandervort, RV-6Q 25 hrs.
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
<< I would like to hear from other builders on how far their glaresheild
extends back past the instrument panel. >>
1-2" is more than enough. Mine is 2" including the edge molding.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
<< I know you said don't ask, but does the tool mess up dimpled holes?
I am just about ready to start riveting the wing skins on my first wing,
the skins are dimpled and ready to go. But, I haven't done the edge
bending yet.
I was going to order one of those edge rolling tools this week. Can I
not use it on these skins now that I have already dimpled them? >>
I put a chamfer on one the rollers. That side goes towards the dimples and
allows them to clear.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lousmith(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank access cover |
In a message dated 1/17/99 10:18:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, kitfox(at)gte.net
writes:
>I have always prosealed on the covers . . .
>
>Scott McDaniels
So is the verdict to use proseal without the gasket?
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q #591
Issaquah, WA
>>
Mike,
That's the way I did it on both my RV4 and RV8. Never had any problems with
leaks. I did have to remove one of the covers on the RV4 due to a faulty fuel
level sender. After removing the screws, a putty knife was all that was
required to remove the cover.
Louis Smith
RV4 N102LS sold
RV8 N801RV 76 hours
North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Enpennage Fairing (Fiberglass help) |
>My enpennage fairing is not even close to fitting and I have hardly any
>fiberglass experience. It has about a 1\2 inch gap at the front, Do I
>need to cut the fairing in two pieces and start over or does anyone have
>another suggestion. Also I have seen some planes at Oshkosh that didn't
>have any visible fasteners holding the fairing on. That is what I would
>like to do if anyone could help.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Jerry Doyal
I did this piece recently and it was about as you describe yours. I was
pessimistic as to the prospects of a good fit from having read many posts on
the subject (see archives for many alternate methods).
The first thing I did was start trimming at the 1/2 inch gap you describe.
Since there is a taper to the front and out at this point with enough
trimming the gap closed. At this same point the downward puche at the front
of the horizontal stabilizer matched up with the leading edge of the
stabilizer. At least in my case I will be able to get the fairing to work,
although it still needs a little heat and judicious bending.
I have been working on the cowling lately too and I think that helped me to
see that the fiberglass piece we start with should be considered a starting
point only, and trimming and filling are normal. You could delay this part
until you have some more experience or until you can trick someone into
helping you.
I am fed up with fiberglass and microballoon dust, but the cowling is
basically finished. Hah!
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q N441LP Induction System
Pacer N8025D For Sale http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ole Moyer" <omoyer(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Any Builders Near Maui.... |
Aloha Paul,
My husband and I are building an RV-6 on Maui. We also have a Citabria
based at Kahului airport. If you are interested in hooking up give us a
call. We can be reached at (808)256-0082 or (808)572-7397.
Another point of interrest. The Great Hawaiian Air Race Starts in
Honolulu on February 13th with an overnight stay in Hana that night. I
believe there are some RVs competing in the race.
Elizabeth and Ole Moyer
-----Original Message-----
From: IEN YOE <PAUL.AND.IEN(at)worldnet.att.net>
Date: Saturday, January 09, 1999 10:27 AM
Subject: RV-List: Any Builders Near Maui....
>
>Hi,
>
>My fiancee and I will be in Maui the week of February 4th
>through the 11th. We may be adding a day or two on either
>end to "see the sights" as the time there will be pretty much
>taken up with a seminar we are attending.
>
>Any RV builders nearby that are willing to show off their project
>or completion or can recommend some "must see/do things,
>places or events".
>
>Thanks.
>
>Paul Bilodeau
>RV-6A Horizontal Stabilizer (about to skin)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net> |
| Subject: | PPG Concept Paint |
Yes, paint again. I have decided to use a PPG acrylic urethane paint,
which is currently Deltron. But the paint salespeople advised me that in
about a year or two Deltron will no longer be available. They are
switching to their Concept DCC acrylic urethane, which is suppose to be
almost identical to Deltron but is more environmentally friendly. So they
said if you may still be painting a year or so from now, which I will, then
better go to Concept. It's out now, and I bought a pint just to try it.
Anybody had any experience with this Concept stuff?
Mike Robbins
RV-8Q #591
Issaquah, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gar Pessel" <pessel(at)ptialaska.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net>
Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 1:55 PM
Subject: RV-List: N# FARS
>
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone know about the FARs regarding display of N# as relating to
>international flight?
>
>I remember reading something about the N# having to be at least 12"
>tall for international flight. Would a 12" N# using an "Outlined" font
>meet this requirement?
>
>I figure someday I would love to fly to Alaska, and would have to go
>through Canada to get there. Has anyone had any experience with this?
>
Yep- I have flown through Canada a number of times with my PA-18, which has
3 inch numbers on the tail. At one time, the rule was that if you repainted
the aircraft, you had to put on 12 inch numbers. I was grandfathered in at
that point. Apparently that has been abandoned because of its obvious
absurdity, but I am not sure what the rule is now. Lots of recently painted
aircraft seem to have the small numbers. Maybe someone knows the answer.
Incidentally, if anyone flies to Alaska, we would be glad to offer our
hospitality. Feel free to give us a call at 455-6066, if you get to
Fairbanks. Gar Pessel, qb6 wings, Fairbanks, AK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PPG Concept Paint |
Michael J. Robbins wrote:
> Anybody had any experience with this Concept stuff?
>
I have used Concept for a while now an can vouch for a paint that is easy to
apply and wears well. It has a real nice gloss to it too.
DGM RV-6
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
> I know you said don't ask, but does the tool mess up dimpled holes?
> I am just about ready to start riveting the wing skins on my first wing,
> the skins are dimpled and ready to go. But, I haven't done the edge
> bending yet.
>
> Chris Hand
> RV-6A, wings
> Seaside, CA
Chris - I ran into the same problem - dimpled before edge bending. I found that
with the Avery edge bender - the one that looks like a 3" metal cookie with two
rollers - I was able to get an acceptable job done. The edges looked a bit wavy
after edge rolling (it kind of messed up the rollers a bit too), but after
riveting the skins laid down real well - just as they were supposed too. I might
add that while this bending after the fact worked, I found that it is a whole
bunch easier to edge roll before dimpling. I tried to use the bending tool to do
the edges and found that you can't keep uniform enough to make the job look
good.
DGM RV-6 Cowling work
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | GO HOME HOUSEFIXER |
You should take your poor examples of knowledge, your attitude, and your
lack of consideration of people who DO know what they are talking about, to
the rock from which you crawled out of.
Yes, we stand by Van and his design. I'm not going to speculate what went
wrong, but I think Van knows a little more about aeronautical design than
you do, and his track record will show that. I don't think Van would just
design something that would not meet or exceed his previous standards.
Go home, and leave your ignorant comments and opinions off of the list. I
think I speak for everyone on this list, you are not welcome here.
As far as John Ammetter is concerned, don't worry about it, John, we do
understand sarcasm when we hear it, unlike some non educated individuals
previously mentioned.
Paul Besing
Please Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N48RV Lawsuit |
It's a sad state of affairs when you can slam someone by, gasp, comparing
them to the President of the United States.
You kind of remind me of slick willie. It wasnt sex, it was oral sex. I
mean
give me a break, this country has more lawyers then the rest of the world
combined. DO you see a problem with that. I do.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
> On my RV4 it was difficult to hold the stick back as the start switch was on
> the right side, the throttle on the left.
The only tail draggers I have flown have had the throttle on the left,
I have always started the engine holding the stick back with my right
elbow while adjusting throttle with the right hand. The left hand
pressed the starter.
It sounds awkward but a lot less so than a prop strike might.
Doug Gray
RV-6 and contemplating Left hand throttle (one day).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Edge Forming |
Chris,
I had the same problem. What I did was to cut a piece of 1/8th or 1/16
material and attached it to the round edge tool I got from Avery's. This
moved the rollers out just past the dimple and allowed the edge to be
bent without damaging the dimples. It worked on my skin. Laid down fine.
Wes Hays
RV6-A
Finishing
Rotan, TX
writes:
>
>
>
>> I know you said don't ask, but does the tool mess up dimpled holes?
>> I am just about ready to start riveting the wing skins on my first
>wing,
>> the skins are dimpled and ready to go. But, I haven't done the
>edge
>> bending yet.
>>
>> Chris Hand
>> RV-6A, wings
>> Seaside, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slightly oversized bolts |
Regarding crucial holes, its been recommended by many to drill smaller
dia pilot holes before enlarging with specified size drill. It permits
some adjustment if pilot hole is off slightly and guides the larger
drill thru the material without as much tendency to wander.
Ed Anderson
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> Moe,
>
> I have heard of people reaming the hole and inserting a bushing with an
> outside diameter equal to the enlarged hole and the inside diameter equal to
> the AN3 (or whatever) bolt you are using. I have to admit I don't know how
> edge distance plays into this.
>
> I have had my HS clamped to the fuselage of my RV-6A for a week now and just
> keep finding excuses not to drill those holes. You can't make omelets
> without breaking the eggs, but ain't it a bear when something goes wrong?
>
> Steve Soule
>
> -----Original Message-----I used a brad point bit
> to drill a 1/4" bolt hole, and it chattered, and I oversized
> the hole very
> slightly. A tech counciler is telling me to leave it as is,
> but he hasn't
> seen it, and the bolts attach my VS to the fuse so it's
> making me nervous.
> The bolt has just enough room to slightly "seesaw" in 2 of
> the 3 holes I
> drilled. Do they make special bolts for dopes like me?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardner, Douglas (GA44)" <Douglas.Gardner(at)IAC.Honeywell.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling RV-8 tanks skins to bottom side of spar |
I'm having problems with final fitting of tank's. Can't seem to be able to
pull down all the way. I'm short some 3/16
on each side, parallel along the entire edge of the spar on both sides.
Since I don't have the adjoining LE installed yet, I can see that the "Z"
bracket is flush with the spar at both ends. Tried pulling down w/ straps
also. Do I start filling
down the faces of all 6 "Z" brackets ??
Thanks for any inputs..
Doug Gardner
RV-8A "Maggie O'Connell" #80717
Palm Harbor Fl
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Denk [mailto:akroguy(at)hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 1998 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Drilling RV-8 tanks skins to bottom side of spar
>I am ready to drill my first RV-8 tank skin to the bottom side of the
>spar, and have hit mental paralysis. What size should I drill the
>holes? I was all ready to drill them #19, but then saw that the
>instructions say to do the final drilling to #19 after riveting the
>tanks together. I'm confused. Do I drill them now or later?
>
>I see three options:
>
>1. drill #19 now, dimple the skins, install the platenuts and C/S the
>spar holes using the platenuts to guide the C/S pilot (as described
>in the instructions) - has anyone had problems with this?
>
>2. drill #30 now, use some scrap with a #30 hole clamped to the spar
>to hold the pilot. After assembling the tanks put them on and final
>drill to #19, install the platenuts and dimple the skin.
>
>3. Don't drill any holes in the spar now. Do option 1 after
>assembling the tanks.
>
>I am tempted to do option 1. Are there any pitfalls that I haven't
>thought of? Is there a better option?
Kevin,
I followed the procedure you outlined in option 2. I used a piece of
.125 scrap with a #30 pilot hole, and clamped it to the spar flange to
guide the countersink. I still had some chatter, most likely due to the
hole wallowing out somewhat after numerous iterations. It all came out
fine, however.
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
top forward skin and instrument panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | RETRACTION: HOUSEFIXER GO HOME |
My apologies. I read the previous posts from housefixer and I did not see
the later posts, as I check my mail from work and home. I got caught up in
the no name, no history post that Jerry Springer did, and vented the same
kind of frustrations. Now I see that Robert is willing to justify his
comments with his identity and his project, his opinion has a little more
merit. (although I still do not necessarily agree with his view!)
Maybe we should all read and think a little more before we go off on a post!
Once again, my apologies to Robert and the list.
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canadian RV builders |
Gerald:
There are two RV organizations in Canada that I know of: Van's Air
Force - Ontario Wing, and Van's Air Force - Western Canada Wing. I
publish the newsletter for the Western Canada Wing (Western Canada
RVator). We have about 70 members, most of who are actively building
or already flying RVs. The Ontario Wing is run by Terry Janzti, who
I believe is also on this list. Depending on where you live, you
might want to join one (or both) of these organizations.
I invite any other Canadian builders to do the same.
You can contact me at
tedd(at)compuserve.com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tedd/wing.html
and Terry at
tjantzi(at)netrover.com
http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/
Both organizations publish a list of members and their projects.
Tedd McHenry
Van's Air Force - Western Canada Wing
Surrey, BC
-6 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Leif Stener" <leif.stener(at)swipnet.se> |
I have a IO320B1A ( Dynafocal 2 ) and planing to have a woodprop. My cowling is
the new type ( epoxy ) and my question is: do I need 2 1/2" or 4" extension.
I think it wold be nice to have the propeller a bit forward on this engine.
Leif Stener RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop.extension |
>
>I have a IO320B1A ( Dynafocal 2 ) and planing to have a woodprop. My
cowling is the new type ( epoxy ) and my question is: do I need 2 1/2" or 4"
extension. I think it wold be nice to have the propeller a bit forward on
this engine......................
Only the short extension will work with this cowling. The 4" extension was
used on early "fixed pitch " cowls. All newer cowls are shorter to
accomodate the constant speed prop.>
Martin Sutter RV6 N868CM 1,300 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Tail-up on Start-up |
Bungee around your waist:-) Sorry, couldn't resist.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glenn & Judi <glenng(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | engine accesories |
Hi,
I just placed my order today for an engine. Since my wait will be about
4 months, I have some time to think about which engine accesories to
order, such as: exhaust system, gascolator, alternator, voltage
regulator, oil cooler, etc.
All of these items are advertised in the Van's accesory catalog. Are
there items which I might want to shop elsewhere for to get better
brands?
-Glenn Gordon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | NOTICE! Matronics Email Server Downtime.... |
Dear Listers,
I will be taking the Matronics Email server down tonight, Monday 1/18 for
a major disk rebuilding. I have been having problems for a number of weeks
with disk errors and corrupted files. This morning there was a system
crash and I had to restore the three email List address files from a backup
on the 13th - if you subscribed or unsubscribed since the 13th you may be
back on or off the List depending on what you've done since then. I am
going to do a full backup tonight and then completely rebuild the system
from scratch. Hopefully this will resolve the problems I've been having
of late with the system.
I will be taking the system down about 7pm and I have no idea how long it
will take to completely rebuild and restore the system. I hope to have it
done tonight (Monday), but I have a feeling its going to be a looooonnggg
night, if you know what I mean.
Thanks for understanding...
Matt Dralle
List Admin.
PS - The web server will be fully available during the rebuild of the email
server.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cabin Heat CO concern |
While flying to Texas and back this weekend, I noticed a curious phenomenon
with my cabin heat box. I have the standard cabin heat box from Van's, and I
added a 2" hose to direct the heated air from the cabin outlet on the
firewall, to the pilot side foot area. As I started to open the cabin air
valve I reached down to feel the hot air flowing out of the tube. I discovered
that with the valve open 1/2 way, I got a tremendous amount of air flow, and
with the valve opened all the way, the airflow diminished somewhat, but
increased in temperature.
What I think is happening, is the discharge engine cooling are is at a
higher pressure than the air in the cabin, and when the hot air valve is only
open part way, this air will backflow through the hot air valve, mixing with
the heated air from the muff and enter the cabin. Now, a couple of my exhaust
system slip joints leak exhaust gas. I know this because of the residue that
accumulates on the exhaust tubes. Couldn't some of this leaking exhaust gas
find it's way into the cabin when the hot air valve is open part way? My
solution was to make sure the hot air valve was opened all the way to prevent
the cooling discharge air from back flowing into the cabin. Had I not been
aware that this is possible, who knows?...........Is this a valid concern? or
am I just being too paranoid?
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Broken Arrow, Ok
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> The 3/32 rivet will be just a little looser in a hole drilled 3/32 and will
> have to swell or "upset" just a little more to fill that bigger hole. Same
> with the larger rivets. The smaller the hole, the better the fit. That's
> why good practice requires us to use slightly smaller drills.
I photocopied the "Decimal Equivalent Chart" in the back of the Avery
catalog and tacked up to the wall of my shop. Very useful to have. It
shows 3/32" being between #41 and #42, i.e. SMALLER than #40 or 41.
Also it shows 1/8" drill being slightly smaller than a #30. I use a
1/8" drill to when drilling out 1/8" rivets -- less chance of enlarging
the hole than if you use the #30 bit.
Here are the applicable entries.
42 .0935
3/32 .0938
41 .0950
40 .0980
31 .1200
1/8 .1250
30 .1285
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001) |
| Subject: | NOTICE! - Email Server Back Online... |
Listers,
After a grueling system upgrade on the Matronics Email machine last night,
a great deal left to do to get everything dialed-in on the new system, but
at this point, things are working much better. I did a low-level format
on the system disk, then did a clean install of the OS. Most all of the
archives and email list files have been resolved and postings should be
flowing normally now. Obviously there wasn't a Digest Posting last night.
Also, messages posted between about 7:30pm pst 1/18 and 4:30am pst 1/19
were lost because of a problem with the new version of Perl installed with
the upgrade. If you posted a message between these times, please feel
free to repost your message.
I will be continuing to configure the new system today including upgrading
the kernel from the current single-processor mode, to the latest version
of the symmetric multi-processor (SMP) kernel. The system should, however,
be generally available today for normal List posting.
I apologize for the downtime last night and the lost messages. The up-side
is that the system seems to be working *much* better now on the reformat
and clean install.
Best Regards,
Matt Dralle
RV, Kolb, and Zenith List Admin.
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat CO concern |
<< Couldn't some of this leaking exhaust gas
find it's way into the cabin when the hot air valve is open part way? My
solution was to make sure the hot air valve was opened all the way to prevent
the cooling discharge air from back flowing into the cabin. Had I not been
aware that this is possible, who knows?...........Is this a valid concern? or
am I just being too paranoid? >>
Hmmmmmmm.....now I see why that J-3 I flew at the flight school had an elbow
on the heat box (directed to the lip of the cowling). I'd suggest one of two
things: reduce the opening size of the by-pass hole in the heat box to
maintain positive airflow - 1" is probably big enough here. Or, fab an elbow
to attach to the bypass opening, directed at or past the cowl opening. Again,
1" or so is probably big enough. A short length of small scat hose would make
a good "dump" line, too.
Remember: the inside of the cockpit is a low pressure (suction) area!
BTW: How many are planning to attend the EAA leadership conference at Lake
Texoma on Feb 6?
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mode-C Certification |
>>I think they have to "run the encoder thru the altitudes & see what
kind of lie it is senting to the transponder" That price covered
removing the alt & checking it along with the static system for IFR. I
think the transponder & encoder is all you need on VFR.<<
It would be a good idea to correlate the whole system the first time to
make sure all the leaks are gone, the altimeter sort of matches the
rest of the system, etc. I plan to have mine checked out, even
though I do fly VFR. I kinda like knowing how far off my alitimeter is
when I'm skirting into an airport under controlled airspace.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Almost done with the wiring.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV4131rb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture Springs |
<< RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley"
Why do you think springs are necessary? Have you ever had a throttle or
mixture break? Have you ever seen these springs on a production airplane?
It would take a lot of ware and time for either control cable to break. If
you are doing proper maintenance, you would catch it long before any problem
would develop. You do have the pivot bolts drilled and keyed, don't you?
This is an FAA requirement.
>>
Sorry, I disagree with most of this. It is true that certified airplanes dont
use them. And yes I once had a forced landing In my little cessna 150 for this
very reason. Just by chance I was on a return trip from Vans Homecomming in
1988. The boden style cable for the mixture broke and the engine quit! I
glided to Eugene airport and made a safe landing. I was fortunate enough to be
high and within a couple of miles of the airport.
I dont think one is needed for the heavy duty cables we use for our throttle
controls but if your using a lightweight boden type cable I think its a great
idea. The spring doesent need to be a heavyweight high tension spring. Light
tension is all thats needed, just enough to ensure that if the cable breaks
that the mixture arm will return to full rich.
Ryan Bendure Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | David Clark Noise Cancel |
Has anyone used the h10-13X noise canceling headsets? Would you recommend
them?
How much sound do they really cancel? Any comparison to Bose?
thanks..
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture Springs |
Cy;
What you say sounds reasonable, I was going by an Inspection Check List
for Amateur Built Aircraft, found on the web at
http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/checklist.htm
Under engine compartment it says; Throttle cables anchored and
functional, spring open. Also Mixture control; functional, spring full
rich
Is this just one inspectors interpretation, or is this required? Thanks.
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Why do you think springs are necessary? Have you ever had a throttle
>or
>mixture break? Have you ever seen these springs on a production
>airplane?
>
>It would take a lot of ware and time for either control cable to
>break. If
>you are doing proper maintenance, you would catch it long before any
>problem
>would develop. You do have the pivot bolts drilled and keyed, don't
>you?
>This is an FAA requirement.
>
>On both controls you want them to be set easily, a spring would tend
>to undo
>you careful settings. The mixture control, unless you are using a
>vernier
>would always be creeping rich if you had a spring. You would have to
>tighten down the lock on your non-vernier throttle to prevent the same
>thing. This would produce more wear.
>
>On systems that don't use stiff cables, such as bicycle brake cables,
>then
>the flexibility might necessitate a return spring. Bert Rutan used it
>in
>the Vari Eze for example, due to very long controls. They were
>necessary as
>the flexible cable only pulled and could not push like you controls.
>Is you
>are using stiff wire control you should not have any reason to have
>the
>springs.
>
>If it was a good idea, the FAA would require it. They don't!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: n41va(at)Juno.com <n41va(at)Juno.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 10:13 AM
>Subject: RV-List: Throttle/Mixture Springs
>
>
>>
>>Since it would seem desirable, if not necessary, to install springs
>on
>>the throttle and mixture (throttle to full open, mixture to full
>rich),
>>how do I go about doing this? My Bart Lalonde engine does not have
>>springs on either, shouldn't this be standard?
>>Von Alexander
>>N41VA(at)juno.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Yes, I had it backwards in my previous post. I keep telling myself to think
first, then type (talk) second.
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
From: randall(at)edt.com [mailto:randall(at)edt.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 2:18 PM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: drilling
Henderson)
> The 3/32 rivet will be just a little looser in a hole
drilled 3/32 and will
> have to swell or "upset" just a little more to fill that
bigger hole. Same
> with the larger rivets. The smaller the hole, the better
the fit. That's
> why good practice requires us to use slightly smaller
drills.
I photocopied the "Decimal Equivalent Chart" in the back of
the Avery
catalog and tacked up to the wall of my shop. Very useful
to have. It
shows 3/32" being between #41 and #42, i.e. SMALLER than
#40 or 41.
Also it shows 1/8" drill being slightly smaller than a #30.
I use a
1/8" drill to when drilling out 1/8" rivets -- less chance
of enlarging
the hole than if you use the #30 bit.
Here are the applicable entries.
42 .0935
3/32 .0938
41 .0950
40 .0980
31 .1200
1/8 .1250
30 .1285
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | starting finishing kit |
I just got a call from the shipping co that my finishing kit has arrived.
Yeah!!!!....but....
before I start, have I left out anything that is easier to do without the
canopy stuff in place.
I have not installed any brake lines nor have I installed the wings and all
that incidence measurement work has not been done. It calls out for this in
the QB manual, but because its winter and I would have to do the work
outside the garage, I have opted to do this at a later stage when I can
install the wings " more" permanently along with other jobs on the wing.
Any advice about the order of this work, or should I launch right in to the
finishing kit?
Thanks in advance
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB - empennage mounted, controls working
skins on.....awaiting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aviation scanner |
I don't see any reason why you couldn't recrystal the scanner, provided it has
AM coverage of the VHF band (and it may not), but you'd be forever limited to
those frequencies. For what you'd spend on crystals, I think you'd be much
happier to part with 99 bucks for a new, synthesized scanner (Bearcat, etc.)
that will tune any frequency you could ever want on the aircraft band without
any additional costs. Crystals are even more outmoded than Lycomings.
Bill Boyd
airport too iced up to get to the hangar :-(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer! |
Hi all,
It is with deep regret that I am about ready to throw in the towel on my RV6a
QB. Now that it has wings installed and engine with 3 out of 4 bolts in!
No, I guess I'll go on 'cuz I'm persistant but I've made a fatal error.
I misremembered the dimension for the bolt that connects the wing's rear spar to
the fuselage. I thought it was 3/16 so I used my head instead of looking it up
and drilled near the center of the stubs as possible. Now, when I drill it to
the called out 5/16 I will not have required edge distance which is 2x bolt
diameter. I thought it was as for rivets, 1.5x. Incidence is spot on and sweep
is zero +- 1/16th.
I *WON'T* rip the damn thing all apart as Van's tech support suggests might be
required.
Another builder told me that he has seen several RV's with too little edge
distance flying.
I am busy now designing a fix - yes, I have some idea what I am doing.
Am I the world's first to make such a blunder? What have others done? Anyone
know of someone else flying akro with less than required specs?
Finally, is there anyone with skills in this area willing to check my design
effort?
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Wings on for fitting
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Cabin Heat CO concern |
Mark,
Sounds like a possible source of Co into the cockpit to me. What
about increasing the fresh air pressure by installing a scoop at the
intake? Has anybody actually measured the pressure inside the lower
cowl Vs the fresh air intake?
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com [SMTP:MLaboyteau(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 2:07 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Cabin Heat CO concern
>
>
> While flying to Texas and back this weekend, I noticed a curious
> phenomenon
> with my cabin heat box. I have the standard cabin heat box from Van's,
> and I
> added a 2" hose to direct the heated air from the cabin outlet on the
> firewall, to the pilot side foot area. As I started to open the cabin
> air
> valve I reached down to feel the hot air flowing out of the tube. I
> discovered
> that with the valve open 1/2 way, I got a tremendous amount of air
> flow, and
> with the valve opened all the way, the airflow diminished somewhat,
> but
> increased in temperature.
> What I think is happening, is the discharge engine cooling are is
> at a
> higher pressure than the air in the cabin, and when the hot air valve
> is only
> open part way, this air will backflow through the hot air valve,
> mixing with
> the heated air from the muff and enter the cabin. Now, a couple of my
> exhaust
> system slip joints leak exhaust gas. I know this because of the
> residue that
> accumulates on the exhaust tubes. Couldn't some of this leaking
> exhaust gas
> find it's way into the cabin when the hot air valve is open part way?
> My
> solution was to make sure the hot air valve was opened all the way to
> prevent
> the cooling discharge air from back flowing into the cabin. Had I not
> been
> aware that this is possible, who knows?...........Is this a valid
> concern? or
> am I just being too paranoid?
>
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6A N106RV
> Broken Arrow, Ok
> MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
>
>
> -----
>
> -----
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> -----
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer! |
You can salvage the 3/16 hole and move its center at the same time. Drills
are a poor device for making an accurate round hole. Reamers make precise,
round holes. In addition, it will take an egg shaped hole and make it round.
What you need to do is get a rat tailed file and elongate the hole in the
direction you want it to move. Actually center the slot where you want the
5/16" hole to be. The run a machine reamer, not an adjustable through the
slot, This will ream out the slot into a hole . You can do it in a couple
of steps by slotting and using a 1/4" reamer, then your 5/16" if you have
the hole where you want it. You can re-slot the 1/4" to move it again if
you think it isn't where you want it from the first slotting. This is an
old tool makers trick. Ask any real machinist and they will tell or show
you how it works.
Try it on some scrap first to see hand easy it is.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kempthorne <halk(at)sybase.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 4:18 PM
Subject: RV-List: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer!
>
>Hi all,
>
>It is with deep regret that I am about ready to throw in the towel on my
RV6a
>QB. Now that it has wings installed and engine with 3 out of 4 bolts in!
>
>No, I guess I'll go on 'cuz I'm persistant but I've made a fatal error.
>
>I misremembered the dimension for the bolt that connects the wing's rear
spar to
>the fuselage. I thought it was 3/16 so I used my head instead of looking
it up
>and drilled near the center of the stubs as possible. Now, when I drill it
to
>the called out 5/16 I will not have required edge distance which is 2x bolt
>diameter. I thought it was as for rivets, 1.5x. Incidence is spot on and
sweep
>is zero +- 1/16th.
>
>I *WON'T* rip the damn thing all apart as Van's tech support suggests might
be
>required.
>
>Another builder told me that he has seen several RV's with too little edge
>distance flying.
>
>I am busy now designing a fix - yes, I have some idea what I am doing.
>
>Am I the world's first to make such a blunder? What have others done?
Anyone
>know of someone else flying akro with less than required specs?
>
>Finally, is there anyone with skills in this area willing to check my
design
>effort?
>
>
>Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Wings on for fitting
>halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: David Clark Noise Cancel |
>
>Has anyone used the h10-13X noise canceling headsets? Would you recommend
>them?
>How much sound do they really cancel? Any comparison to Bose?
Nothing compares to the Bose, at least nothing that I have used. I have a
10-13XL because I am cheap and because the old Bose did not look durable
enough to live in my world. The 10-13XL works great in my RV. I love it!
The fidelity is great for stereo, rockin, rollin, and loopin! I have no
interior in the panther and some sort of noise canceling is really
important.
However, In the big round engine birds the 10-13XL it is worthless. The
noise canceling does not work at all and actually makes the noise worse.
The passive canceling is not as good as my old 10-40 with The Headsets Inc
conversion in them. The Headsets Inc. conversion gave up the ghost and
rather than replace them I thought I would get the 10-13XL. I think the
Headsets Inc. conversion is probably a better system than the DC system.
Sounds crazy but I believe it. I guess I will still have to replace my
Headsets Inc kits.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
dougr(at)petroblend.com
http://www.petroblend.com/dougr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
This system is simple, and will not fail you. I have found that I had a much
easier time with rivets in dimpled holes that were drilled to #31 or #41.
Here's an easy rule of thumb that has never failed me:
3/32 hole that will be dimpled: #41
3/32 hole that will not be dimpled: #40
1/8 hole that will be dimpled: #31
1/8 hole that will not be dimpled: #30
I don't have problems with clecos fitting, etc, and if the rivet has trouble
going into the hole, I run the approriate size bit through it again to
"persuade" it to fit. I find that the tighter the fit, the less trouble I
have with "bent over" rivets.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McLaughlin" <johnmc49(at)ecity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: David Clark Noise Cancel |
I have had good success with the Lightspeed 15K. I have four sets of them
which I ordered from Skysmith at $275ea plus shipping. They worked
considerably better than my David Clark H10-20 which I had converted with
the Headsets Inc box.
I did have a loose wire in the battery box on the 15K, which was promptly
fixed and returned by Lightspeed.
John McLaughlin
Meteorologist
Des Moines
RV6a 888WX (in construction)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John McLaughlin" <johnmc49(at)ecity.net> |
| Subject: | Re: David Clark Noise Cancel |
I have had good success with the Lightspeed 15K. I have four sets of them
which I ordered from Skysmith at $275ea plus shipping. They worked
considerably better than my David Clark H10-20 which I had converted with
the Headsets Inc box.
I did have a loose wire in the battery box on the 15K, which was promptly
fixed and returned by Lightspeed.
John McLaughlin
Meteorologist
Des Moines
RV6a 888WX (in construction)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - b |
| From: | n5lp <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>I misremembered the dimension for the bolt that connects the wing's rear
>spar to
>the fuselage. I thought it was 3/16 so I used my head instead of looking
>it up
>and drilled near the center of the stubs as possible. Now, when I drill
>it to
>the called out 5/16 I will not have required edge distance which is 2x bolt
>diameter. I thought it was as for rivets, 1.5x.
Hal, when I did this I was unable to find ANY specs anywhere for edge
distance for this bolt, even though the building instuctions said to be
sure to maintain edge distance. I looked in the builders manual and the
other building and repair references I have with absolutely no mention of
edge distance specs for bolts. For rivets, edge distance spec is 2d from
the center of the hole, which is the same thing I found in my 16Years of
the RVator book (later) for that rear spar bolt per Van's. I wonder
where Van's got that figure, as bolts and rivets sure don't seem to be
equivalent in this area. (Among other things rivets exert outward
pressure on the hole).
Anyway I think Van's wants 2d from the center (1 1/2 from the edge), just
like on rivets.
When I drilled mine I was mindfull of the caution about edge distance,
but since such was not specified I kind of went on what seemed ok. I am
not really happy about how it came out, and like you, wish I had more
information.
If anyone knows where there is any information on edge distance specs in
Van's building instuctions, other than to maintain edge distance, I would
like to know where it is.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q N441LP Induction System
Pacer N8025D For Sale http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: starting finishing kit |
Dan:
I also have a QB -6A, and mine is a tip-up. Keep in mind that I am not yet
done with my finish kit, but this is how I see it after 3 months of having
the finish kit. Be sure you do all of your fuel and brake lines. Do not
rivet your forward fuse skin until you are ready to fly. If you have the
tip up, you can simply take off the canopy, so whatever you do, is not
totally critical. If you are doing the slider, I would make sure that you
have all systems installed first. As far as the wings are concerned, you
will only attach them once. Believe me, you will only attach them once. I
had to attach my wings to drill my *new* landing gear mounts, (the holes did
not line up). It is a major pain, and it almost made me sick to my stomach
that I had to take them off. Don't worry about the wings until you are at
the airport, and you plane is painted. Also I would not mount the gear
until you have the canopy done. It really gets in the way, and you will
have busted shins. (don't ask me how I know). Also if you have any wires
going to the back of the airplane, it might be wise to have them all routed
before the back windows are done and the turtledeck is riveted.
Hope this helps..
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Canopy
>
>I just got a call from the shipping co that my finishing kit has arrived.
>Yeah!!!!....but....
>
>before I start, have I left out anything that is easier to do without the
>canopy stuff in place.
>I have not installed any brake lines nor have I installed the wings and all
>that incidence measurement work has not been done. It calls out for this in
>the QB manual, but because its winter and I would have to do the work
>outside the garage, I have opted to do this at a later stage when I can
>install the wings " more" permanently along with other jobs on the wing.
>
>Any advice about the order of this work, or should I launch right in to the
>finishing kit?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)home.com> |
| Subject: | batteries/starters 101 |
Dear gang,
My O-360, 180 hp RV-4 has never turned over quickly since I purchased it
two months ago. When running, the panel volt meter shows nearly 14 volts. I
checked the meter with my trusty Radio Shack multi meter with the plane at
rest. They agree exactly. I decided to charge the battery, a one year old
RG battery designed for wheelchair use. At rest, the battery shows 12.9
volts. While on a slow, 2 amp , auto shut-off trickle charge, the panel
volt meter was showing 14.9 volts. How can this be? Is my new battery
charger overcharging? Can a fully charged RG battery ever show 12.9 volts?
Meanwhile, when I tried to start the engine ( with fuel off), it still
turns over very slowly....one half revolution at a time. The outside temp.
is about 40+ degrees. Is my starter, a Nippon-Denso, not working well? How
do I check it. Should I use my perfectly good auto battery with
conventional jumpers to test the starter. I guess I am thinking of
disconnecting the aircraft's battery from its cables and attaching my
automobile's battery in its place via cables. I would then disconnect the
alternator's field circuit- just for safety. Then, I would try to turn over
the engine(again with no fuel) just to see how rapidly it turns over.
Yes. Its true. I'm electronically challenged. Thanks in advance for any
help you may be able to provide.
Louis I. Willig , RV-4
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
Louis I. Willig , RV-4
larywil(at)home.com
(610) 668-4964
Philadelphia, PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cd005677(at)mindspring.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat CO concern |
----------
>From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Cabin Heat CO concern
>Date: Tue, Jan 19, 1999, 1:06 PM
>
> Couldn't some of this leaking exhaust gas
> find it's way into the cabin when the hot air valve is open part way? My
> solution was to make sure the hot air valve was opened all the way to prevent
> the cooling discharge air from back flowing into the cabin. Had I not been
> aware that this is possible, who knows?...........Is this a valid concern? or
> am I just being too paranoid?
It's not possible to be too paranoid about this IMHO. Several years ago,
when I first bought a CO detector for my Navion, I was shocked to see the
spot turn black on climbout almost immediately, without the cabin heat on.
Eventually, I discovered that exhaust fumes were leaking through the belly
fairings and open main gear wells at high angles of attack. The heat muff
and exhaust system were perfectly fine. I had previously thought that
altitude was causing that headache/spacy feeling after long climbs.
I very carefully sealed every hole in the firewall with red RTV (this took
an entire Saturday,and four tubes of RTV) and then (after unsuccesful flight
testing) pulled all the gill plates and various fairings and sealed every
hole I could find--this finally worked. I had previously removed the heat
without fixing the problem (it was summer and I was living in Louisiana at
the time)
I still don't fly without the CO detector--There have been recent articles
about this in the Flying Physician's Assoc. magazine and (I think) AvWeb.
Many homebuilts I have looked at have dozens of poorly sealed holes in the
firewall and fuse floor--this is a potentially lethal problem, although it
probably is only likely to become critical on long legs.
James Freeman
RV-8 tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Cimino <jcimino(at)epix.net> |
| Subject: | Re: David Clark Noise Cancel |
I have the H10-13XL. I spent a lot of time looking at the Pilot, Telex,
DC, and Lightspeed. The way the rate them is very confusing. I talked to
each company and read all their literature and finally went with the DC
because I fly a lot and know that you can't beat the DC for customer
service and reliability. They were giving a $60.00 rebate which brought
the price down to about $530.00 plus DC sent me a real nice headset bag.
I like it a lot. I have flown with the DC, Bose, and the lightspeed and
think the DC for the price is the best. I can mount the battery pack to
the map pockets in most planes and it takes care of the wiring hassles. I
will get the panel supply for my -8 and another set for the back seat.
If you have not flown with a ENC set yet, you won't believe them. I do
flight instruction in different aircraft and after six hours with a regular
headset you have had it for the day.
>
>Has anyone used the h10-13X noise canceling headsets? Would you recommend
>them?
>How much sound do they really cancel? Any comparison to Bose?
>
>thanks..
>
>Paul Besing
>
>
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/5771
(717)842-4057 N.E. Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
| Subject: | Engines-Care and feeding of Lycomings |
Fellow RVer's
Bart is away until next week so am a little slow getting started on the
engine questions but here are a couple of items I will pass on along with
what I have picked up over the years as to the maintaining and handleing of
the Lycomings. While we are talking about Lycomings in particular these
observations would apply to most naturally aspirated opposed
engines that I have had experience with.
First the items:
(1) With regard to the discussion on replacing the crankshaft oil seal, it
is not recommended to stretch a seal over the prop flange due to the stress
on the seal, the preferred method is to use the split seal P/N LW11997.
This seal has no spring and should be installed using 3M sealant #847
Rubber & Gasket Adhesive. Thourghly clean the seat and prep with MEK or
acetone so that the new seal will seat properly and apply the adhesive, a
cotton swab works good for this. Be sure to coat the area of the crankshaft
that the seal will contact with engine oil so that the new seal is not
damaged on start up before it gets lube from the engine. This seal
installed in a careful manner should not be more prone to leak than the
one piece.
(2) Re service bulliten 1435. I believe that the new engines as purchased
from Van's are set up as they are so they can be run either fixed pitch
or constant speed. When this decision is made you must make certain that it
is set up properly for the application you have chosen. You have already
seen a couple of posts referring to forced landings. When the front plug is
blown out all oil is lost in a matter of minutes as well as covering the
canopy making a forced landing extremely difficult. Bart's engines are set
up per your instructions so this problem will not occur.
(3) The line from the accesory case to the front is for a constant speed
application. The flow of oil through this line is controlled by the
governor. Will have more on this next post.
(4) "Never never" run an engine without a propeller.
After getting out of the air force in 1945 I became a part owner in a small
charter and flying school operation and continued to be involved in
commercial aviation until retirement. With the switch from the airforce
paying the bills to me paying them I really got interested in how my
engines were being handled. It didn't take long to see the difference in
costs between the engine that was carefully handled and one that was
handled by an inexperienced pilot or hot rodder.
My priorities have always been safety first and costs second, and over the
years it became very plain that the best and cheapest way to acommplish
this was to start out with a new engine or a premium overhaul and don't cut
corner's under the cowlings. After a few years finally settled on the
following procedures and found them to do the best job. At the risk of
being a bit repetative I am forwarding a post that I made up some time ago.
> These are the power settings and handleing procedures I have used on the
> Lycoming O540,O360. and O320 engines over the past thirty years or so
and found this to give the best combination of long life,speed versus fuel
> consumption and most importantly no engine failures. All of my life my
> engine handleing priorities have been:
>
> 1 Do the best you can to prevent a engine failure.
>
> 2 Keep engine operating cost as cheap as possible by having every engine
> run their full time between overhauls.
>
> 3 Avoiding proppeller damage during ground running and try to cause the
> leased amount of disturbance to others from noise and prop wash etc.
>
> 4 Max performance was never a consideration unless conditions warranted
it.
>
> In my opinion engine handeling starts when you first decide to start it.
So these are the rules I have followed.
>
> Never attempt a start below freezing without pe-heating.
> Learn how much prime is required under various condtions to start in say
> three or four blades. Never prime with the throttle.
> Keep engine rpm to 1000-1200 for a few minutes monitoring oil pressure
> ..Keep under red line. May have to drop below 1000 initially if engine is
> started close to freezing temps with heavy oil to keep oil pressure
within limits.
> Move to run up area and assuming one is on pavement warm up into wind at
1400 to say 100-120 degrees on the oil.
> Then go to 1700 and check mags and or electronic ignition. In the case of
a constant speep prop exercise a couple of times useing a 300-400 rpm drop.
I don't go above 1700 for a mag check unless something shows up for the
good of the prop. Going into grass or gravel strips if I have any concerns
about prop damageI will check the mags in the circuit on landing and then
just check for a dead
one prior to take off.
> Take of at full throttle and in the case of the RV's climb out at say
> 110-120 indicated. As soon as comfortble throttle back to 25-24 in
manifold pressure and in the case of a constant speed prop would reduce rpm
to
> 2500-2400. I have always made it a rule to keep full throttle operation
to one minute max unless circumstances dictate otherwise.
> Continue climb out at these settings until reaching desired altitude
> starting to lean at 3500-4000 ft keeping well on the rich side of peak.
On reaching cruiseing altitude level of and cruise at 2400 and 21-22 ins
> manifold pressure for say 5 min to stabilize temps. Then lean to peak on
> the hottest cylinder less 50 degrees on the rich side.
>
> Plan decents to maintain 400-500 ft per min at say 18-20 inches manifold
> gradually reduceing to say 14 on arriving at circuit hight This is done
to cool the engine gradually or as we say prevent shock cooling On
leveling
> out in vicinity of airport power can be reduced to what ever to maintain
> desired speed. .Speed is now low enough that this power setting will keep
> engine temp ok. Another reason for resricting decents to 500 ft per min
is for passenger comfort. I have found that people who don"t fly very often
> have sensitive ears especially if one has been at a high altitude for an
> extended period. This means that if you have to let down say 7000 ft one
> has to sart the let down in a RV roughly 45-50 miles back.
> Useing this method assures the proper control of engine temperatures and
> also allows for immediate shut down of engine after landing.
>
> All of the above rpm pertains to a constant speed prop which will be
> turning 2700 in full fine for takeoff. I have no experience whith a
fixed pitch on an RV but in talking to others, procedures should be the
same .
> The difference would be (in the case of the new Sensenich prop for the
O360 for example) the rpm at start of takeoff would be somewhere around
> 2200-2300 increasing with airspeed until reaching around 2700 in level
> flight at critical altitude. I believe for the good of the engine it
should never be operated over 2500 continuously which with the Sensenich
prop
> would mean reducing the manifold pressure to around 20 in.
The Lycoming manual says not to operate at over 75% continuously this
equates to around 2400 and 24 inches. The recommended TBO is 2000 and this
can be achieved if the a/c is flown on a regular basis (at least every two
weeks) and cruised at 65 %.
> This has worked for me. I have never had to change a cylinder on a Lyc,
all have run their full time and never had one quit except for fuel
starvation.
> Useing these settings ran 9 light twins with 0540's and I0540's for
several
years each one flying 1000-1100 hrs. a year without a single cylinder
change and everyone reaching it's recommended TBO.
> Restricting rpm on the ground to 1000 or so will keep prop damage to a
min.
>
> Really what all this boils down to is use 75% for climb and as close
> to 65% for cruise as you can get. The rest is just common sense.
>
> One need not feel restricted by these procedures, if you need it use it.
The small Lyc's are famous for their reliability but every time one strays
from the above it takes a bit away from safety and increases the costs.
If I don't get kicked of the list for this post will try one on picking and
careing for your engine in the next few days.
Fly Safe
> Eustace Bowhay -Blind Bay B.C
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | susan dawson <jollyd(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture Springs |
Take it from one who has had it happen on three chrokees, the cable (throttle)
broke, and the throttle went to full OPEN! I was able to control the airspeed
the old way, by leaning it out, and at the last min, full rich...wore out the
other cable, but made it back safe....I always put a spring on the throttle arm,
so you at LEAST have an engine GOING, and producing POWER....jolly in aurora.
RV4131rb(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> << RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley"
>
> Why do you think springs are necessary? Have you ever had a throttle or
> mixture break? Have you ever seen these springs on a production airplane?
>
> It would take a lot of ware and time for either control cable to break. If
> you are doing proper maintenance, you would catch it long before any problem
> would develop. You do have the pivot bolts drilled and keyed, don't you?
> This is an FAA requirement.
> >>
> Sorry, I disagree with most of this. It is true that certified airplanes dont
> use them. And yes I once had a forced landing In my little cessna 150 for this
> very reason. Just by chance I was on a return trip from Vans Homecomming in
> 1988. The boden style cable for the mixture broke and the engine quit! I
> glided to Eugene airport and made a safe landing. I was fortunate enough to be
> high and within a couple of miles of the airport.
> I dont think one is needed for the heavy duty cables we use for our throttle
> controls but if your using a lightweight boden type cable I think its a great
> idea. The spring doesent need to be a heavyweight high tension spring. Light
> tension is all thats needed, just enough to ensure that if the cable breaks
> that the mixture arm will return to full rich.
> Ryan Bendure Co.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Arthur E. Glaser" <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
I have used AUA for insurance in the past. "MAC" is the VP I speak with
and he has saved me lots over others in the past.
Phone is 800-727-3823. Tell him you got the information from Art Glaser
on this list. (I spoke to him today and an unofficial quote was four to
six hundred dollars less than other quotes to date)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SPORT AERO <eloveday(at)ici.net> |
| Subject: | Frey Steel Jigs web site |
Listers,
Hope anyone who's interested will take a moment to check out our
new web site containing the full catalog of Frey Precision Steel Jigs
for RV -Series aircraft. It's at: <http://home.ici.net/~eloveday>.
We'd also be happy to listen to any comments or criticism.
Thanks!
Ed Loveday - Sport Aero
RV-6 20181
fitting emp. tips
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 0-320 overhaul manual. |
Does anybody have a 0-320 overhaul manual that they would like to sell?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Arthur E. Glaser" <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
Try calling "Mac" at AUA for insurance. He has been very kind and
ethical with me and has often come in hundreds less than some of the
competition. Tel- 800 727-3823. I told him I would post this as I
spoke with him today. Thanks Art Glaser.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer! |
Hal,
I ran into the same problem with the -4 I bought. I was told the
rear wasn't as critical as the front spar (naturally) but, no one
would give me a definite yes or no, when I asked if it was safe
not to have quite the required edge distance. I ended up pulling
out the rear spar carry through, and the attach point on the left
wing. It was a major pain, but, I feel better now, knowing it is
correct. I have only pulled 4 g's , so far, but never give the
rear spar a second thought. Good luck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: David Clark Noise Cancel |
Paul . . . can't speak for the DC's, but I have used Bose and, while they
are pricey, they do perform a noticeable job at cancelling background noise.
I'm just not sure the amount of noise reduction was worth the cost?
Rick Jory
Highlands Ranch, Co
-----Original Message-----
From: Besing, Paul <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 1:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: David Clark Noise Cancel
>
>Has anyone used the h10-13X noise canceling headsets? Would you recommend
>them?
>How much sound do they really cancel? Any comparison to Bose?
>
>thanks..
>
>Paul Besing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
Glen Gordon wrote:
> I would like to hear from other builders on how far their glaresheild
> extends back past the instrument panel.
I think a few inches of overhang would be nice. But I think that hardly any of
it should be sheet aluminum as it might cut your head half off in a crash. I
have my panel in and the aluminum sticks out about 3/4 inch. I will cover the
entire area behind the windshield with some fiber or plastic material covered
with non-reflective cloth or paint. Immediately against the top edge of the
panel (the curved part) I will place semi soft rubber - maybe a piece of high
pressure hose - softer than skull but hard enough to absorb some energy. One
could even use aluminum if thin and soft such as 1100 in .016 and cover that.
Leather would be nice too!
Or leave as designed and just don't crash.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture Springs |
Von wrote:
> Since it would seem desirable, if not necessary, to install springs on
> the throttle and mixture (throttle to full open, mixture to full rich),
> how do I go about doing this?
My Debonair has a spring on the throttle but not the mix as I remember. I think
it is a very good idea. I don't care about the feds and whether it is required
or not. They don't require a VSI even in IFR but everyone has one.
I think the cable is more likely to come off than break. What happens if the
nut that secures the throttle cable comes off the back of the panel?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <rvsixer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture Springs |
>Have you ever had a throttle or
>mixture break?
YES !!!
>If it was a good idea, the FAA would require it
Now that's a good one !
Rob Acker (RV-6Q).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - b |
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
>If anyone knows where there is any information on edge distance specs in
>Van's building instuctions, other than to maintain edge distance, I would
>like to know where it is.
>
>
>Larry Pardue
>Carlsbad, NM
Larry;
Many years ago (maybe around 1993?) on of the rvators had an article and
gave an edge distance as well as I remember. But it may have been to
'center' the hole.
Any one else remember it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Mode-C Certification |
Did mine in the a/c. Checked the press, static, and encoder. The a/s had a
leak, but signed off the encoder. Charged me $75.00 for the whole smear.
When I had the a/s case leak fixed, would sign it off--encluded.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
-----Original Message-----
From: n41va(at)Juno.com <n41va(at)Juno.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 09:39
Subject: RV-List: Mode-C Certification
>
>In looking over a DAR inspection list, I noticed it said to check for
>mode-c certification in the logs before flight. My transponder-encoder
>system is installed, but I had planned to fly it over to the nearby
>avionics shop and have the certification done. Will this be accepted, or
>is this another one of those 'depends on the examiner' things? By the
>way, what exactly is involved in the certification? Do they do the whole
>thing in the airplane, or do they have to remove any components to bench
>check?
>Von Alexander
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: batteries/starters 101 |
>
. When running, the panel volt meter shows nearly 14 volts. I
> checked the meter with my trusty Radio Shack multi meter with the plane at
> rest. They agree exactly. I decided to charge the battery, a one year old
> RG battery designed for wheelchair use. At rest, the battery shows 12.9
> volts. While on a slow, 2 amp , auto shut-off trickle charge, the panel
> volt meter was showing 14.9 volts. How can this be? Is my new battery
> charger overcharging? Can a fully charged RG battery ever show 12.9 volts?
> Meanwhile, when I tried to start the engine ( with fuel off), it still
> turns over very slowly....one half revolution at a time.
Louis,
I run a RG battery in my RV-4. I have a Mark Landoll alt. with a Mark Landoll
starter. After I exceed 1200 rpm on initial startup, my volt meter goes to 15 volts
and stays there until I shut the engine off again.
If anything I would think you're not charging your battery enough. Just because
I've had the same battery for six years and done no maintenance to it other than
change the grease on the terminals doesn't mean I'm right though.
If you're running a stock starter and undercharging your battery, I can see
where
you could be having problems. I ran a stock starter for 5 of those years and was
never proud of the way the engine turned over. I didn't have a geared starter though.
Good Luck
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture Springs |
Listers,
I too have had a mixture cable become disconnected
on a super cub while towing a glider across the rockies!
Fortunatly the engine kept running at partial power long
enough to find a dirt strip for both to land.
Stew RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat CO concern |
listers,
I installed a 1 1/4 in scat tube on the cabin heat box bypass
during construction. Didn't want the hot air that circulates blowing
on the firewall or engine fuel pump. Mine runs down to the cowl
outlet.
Stew RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Abby, Barb and Chet Razer" <razer(at)midwest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat CO concern |
Mark, next time you're in my neighborhood give me a call, Ive got a
calibrated digital CO detector that reads down to 1 ppm. We can easily
test your theory. I believe my cabin heat setup is similar to yours.
Ill test it within a week and post the results.
chet RV6A Miss chiquita 139 hrs.
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> What I think is happening, is the discharge engine cooling are is at a
> higher pressure than the air in the cabin, and when the hot air valve is only
> open part way, this air will backflow through the hot air valve, mixing with
> the heated air from the muff and enter the cabin. Now, a couple of my exhaust
> system slip joints leak exhaust gas. I know this because of the residue that
> accumulates on the exhaust tubes. Couldn't some of this leaking exhaust gas
> find it's way into the cabin when the hot air valve is open part way? My
> solution was to make sure the hot air valve was opened all the way to prevent
> the cooling discharge air from back flowing into the cabin. Had I not been
> aware that this is possible, who knows?...........Is this a valid concern? or
> am I just being too paranoid?
>
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6A N106RV
> Broken Arrow, Ok
> MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: batteries/starters 101 |
Louis Willig wrote:
>
>
> Dear gang,
>
> My O-360, 180 hp RV-4 has never turned over quickly since I purchased it
> two months ago. When running, the panel volt meter shows nearly 14 volts. I
> checked the meter with my trusty Radio Shack multi meter with the plane at
> rest. They agree exactly. I decided to charge the battery, a one year old
> RG battery designed for wheelchair use. At rest, the battery shows 12.9
> volts. While on a slow, 2 amp , auto shut-off trickle charge, the panel
> volt meter was showing 14.9 volts. How can this be? Is my new battery
> charger overcharging? Can a fully charged RG battery ever show 12.9 volts?
> Meanwhile, when I tried to start the engine ( with fuel off), it still
> turns over very slowly....one half revolution at a time. The outside temp.
> is about 40+ degrees. Is my starter, a Nippon-Denso, not working well? How
> do I check it. Should I use my perfectly good auto battery with
> conventional jumpers to test the starter. I guess I am thinking of
> disconnecting the aircraft's battery from its cables and attaching my
> automobile's battery in its place via cables. I would then disconnect the
> alternator's field circuit- just for safety. Then, I would try to turn over
> the engine(again with no fuel) just to see how rapidly it turns over.
>
> Yes. Its true. I'm electronically challenged. Thanks in advance for any
> help you may be able to provide.
>
> Louis I. Willig , RV-4
> larywil(at)home.com
> (610) 668-4964
> Philadelphia, PA
I can't tell you anything about RG bateries, but I can tell you a few
things to check.
1. it's difficult to get a good connection with regular jumper cables.
you may, in effect, duplicate your original problem.
2. unless the battery is significantly discharged, you will see the
charger voltage when it is operating.
3. under no-load conditions, you will see the battery's voltage
throughout the system, even if you have high resistance problems in
connections, switches, etc.
4. try monitoring the voltage with the starter running, 1st across the
battery POSTS, then from the shell of the + clamp to the - POST, then
each side of the contactor, then the + post on the starter, then from
the shell of the - clamp. all with the black lead of your meter on the -
POST of the battery, NOT the connector.
5. if the voltage across the battery posts is less than around 8 volts
after a fresh charge, either the starter is bad or (more likely) the
battery is bad.
6. if you see a significant drop in voltage from as you step from point
to point in #4 above, look there for a bad or corroded connection. the
exception is: you should see 0 volts between the - connector & the
battery - post. if not, that connection is bad/ corroded.
7. if the battery was designed for wheelchairs, it's possible that it
can't supply the extremely high current required for starting even
though its ampere-hour rating is the same as a typical aircraft battery.
If any of this isn't clear, email or call me direct.
Charlie
flying RV-4
Slobovia Outernational Airport
601-879-9596
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Daniel H. Morris III" <Morristec(at)icdc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: batteries/starters 101 |
>
>
>My O-360, 180 hp RV-4 has never turned over quickly since I purchased it
>two months ago.
Lou,
Check the grounding of the engine and battery. These are often the culprit.
During high loads even a fraction of an ohm will reduce cranking power
significantly. Theres lots in the archives on this.
Dan Morris
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer! |
> I ran into the same problem with the -4 I bought. I was told the
> rear wasn't as critical as the front spar (naturally) but, no one
> would give me a definite yes or no, when I asked if it was safe
> not to have quite the required edge distance.
Check the plans - page 46 - almost center of the page. it says [5/8" minimum ]
The measurement is made from the center of the hole to the outside edges on both
the wing rear spar AND the bulkhead carry through. While visiting with Van,s
the importance of this was stressed as this IS a very important area in the
aircraft. If the hole cannot be moved over while bringing it up to size then
IMHO the necessary pieces should be replaced. I know --it's a bunch of tough
work -- but best to build and fly safe.
DGM RV6 Redoing the forward skin so the cowl hinges will fit better--- ARGH!!
Southern Alberta
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Mode-C Certification |
>
>
>>>I think they have to "run the encoder thru the altitudes & see what
> kind of lie it is senting to the transponder" That price covered
> removing the alt & checking it along with the static system for IFR. I
> think the transponder & encoder is all you need on VFR.<<
>
> It would be a good idea to correlate the whole system the first time to
> make sure all the leaks are gone, the altimeter sort of matches the
> rest of the system, etc. I plan to have mine checked out, even
> though I do fly VFR. I kinda like knowing how far off my alitimeter is
> when I'm skirting into an airport under controlled airspace.
> Jim Sears in KY
Please be aware that leaks in the system, and inaccuracy of the
encoder and altimeter are only part of the reason why your altimeter
may be off when skirting under controlled airspace. The position
error of the static port will also cause errors, and this cannot be
seen in a ground check. The position error could easily give an
altimeter error of over 100 ft, in addition to any errors from leaks,
or instrument error.
I have put together a guide to measuring static system position
error. It is available at http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/ssec.html
I am currently working on a major update to the notes and
spreadsheet,to better explain some things, and to correct some very
small errors. The version on my web page is workable.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks)
khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home)
Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work)
http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)usa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer! |
I'm not familiar with the RV-6 but the first thing that comes to mind
is: doublers.
pieces of 1/8", or better, angle rivited or bolted to fuselage, and
doublers rivited/bolted to rear spar.
Finn
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
> I misremembered the dimension for the bolt that connects the wing's rear
spar to
> the fuselage. I thought it was 3/16 so I used my head instead of looking it
up
> and drilled near the center of the stubs as possible. Now, when I drill it
to
> the called out 5/16 I will not have required edge distance which is 2x bolt
> diameter. I thought it was as for rivets, 1.5x. Incidence is spot on and
sweep
> is zero +- 1/16th.
>
> I *WON'T* rip the damn thing all apart as Van's tech support suggests might
be
> required.
>
> Another builder told me that he has seen several RV's with too little edge
> distance flying.
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Newman" <newmanb(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat CO concern |
For about $35 you can buy a Nighthawk electronic CO detector with digital
readout from Home Depot. I understand you can modify it for 12V operation
by opening the unit up and soldering a wire across the big capacitor on
the circuit board. Be careful to observe polarity. The unit also has a
small internal battery that will run it for a while. - Bob
> . Couldn't some of this leaking exhaust gas
> find it's way into the cabin when the hot air valve is open part way? My
> solution was to make sure the hot air valve was opened all the way to prevent
> the cooling discharge air from back flowing into the cabin. Had I not been
> aware that this is possible, who knows?...........Is this a valid concern? or
> am I just being too paranoid?
>
> Mark LaBoyteaux
> RV-6A N106RV
> Broken Arrow, Ok
> MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
| Subject: | Draining gascolator |
----------
> From: cecilth(at)juno.com
> To: ebowhay(at)shuswap.net
> Subject: Hi Eustace
> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 9:27 AM
>
> Hi Eustace,
> On Jan 7th you sent a post saying "I can now drain it by kneeling down
> at the trailing edge of the wing and using a clear sight fuel tester with
> a two inch extension on the probe."
> Up to here I was thinking you put the gascolator in the wing in front
> of the main spar.
> Did you really mean "trailing edge" or did you mean leading "edge?"
>
> Thanks for your posting your ideas.
> Cecil Hatfield
> Thousand Oaks, CA
> Chapter 723
> RV6A under construction for 5 years now
Sorry about that,sure did mean leading edge,gascolator is in front of spar.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
> ___________________________________________________________________
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris Olsen <colsen(at)dimensional.com> |
Matt,
I read your note on the RV list about the disk errors you are having.
Are you running SCSI disks? I do not know if there is a SCSI utility on
Linux
but under FreeBSD you can use the scsi utility to enable the automatic
bad block
remapping. This has helped me out well in similar situations.
Good Luck
Chris Olsen
colsen(at)dimensional.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip A Lehrke" <plehrke(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: qb6 aileron attach problems |
-----Original Message-----
From: Gar Pessel <pessel(at)ptialaska.net>
Date: Friday, January 15, 1999 8:28 PM
Subject: RV-List: qb6 aileron attach problems
>
>Thought others might want to know the problems I have encountered. The qb6
>wing comes with the rear spar and short rib predrilled for the inside hinge
>bracket (W413L). Damn, I wish they had not done that. Plans call for 5
holes
>at 7/8 spacing, and they drilled 4 at 1 inch spacing. Furthermore, the
holes
>are drilled in such a position that if you mount W413L exactly according to
>plans, the predrilled holes will come out too close to the inside of the
>long angle on W413L.
Obvious not all quickbuild kits are alike. I just did mine on my quickbuild
that I got Dec 97 and no hole where predrilled, not even the the short rib.
I was thankful for this as I did measure dozen of times and got everything
to line up perfect (according to my measurements). Either Van's has learned
from predrilling to much on the quickbuilds or I was a luck exception to the
rule.
Phil Lehrke
RV-6a
mounting flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MOOREWAR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | david clark headsets. |
I have the H10-13x and love them. Also have a set of the std H10-13.4 and the
difference is amazing, esp after an hour or so. Have not tried the Bose, but
still think active noise reduction is worth every penny.
________________________________________________________________________________
Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing myself :-) (just kidding)
Von Alexander
N41VA(at)juno.com
writes:
>
>Matt,
> I read your note on the RV list about the disk errors you are having.
>Are you running SCSI disks? I do not know if there is a SCSI utility
>on
>Linux
>but under FreeBSD you can use the scsi utility to enable the automatic
>bad block
>remapping. This has helped me out well in similar situations.
>
>Good Luck
>Chris Olsen
>colsen(at)dimensional.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Capt. Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: David Clark Noise Cancel |
Paul, I have two sets,one with panelmount connection and the other with
portable battery pack. i use them both in my cherokee for now. i love 'em.
they are very effective a reducing the lower frq's, which at at the end of
along flight i dont feel so drained. i have used a bose set in a friends
mooney and they are more confortable and perhaps more effective (maybe just
mooney?) but not worth all the $$$. of coarse if $$ is not an issue.....
BTW... the battery pack unit i use the most because it comes with me in
friends planes and the batts last 20-30 hours.
Steven DiNieri
Capsteve(at)wzrd.com
Wings in the works!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Boris <smbr(at)digital.net> |
| Subject: | RV4 Canopy Frame |
Dear Listers,
Couldn't find answer in archives.
The rear portion of my canopy frame (sqaure tubing) is angled forward
and has a 1" gap to the rear seat bulkhead - uncomfortable for the head
when in the rear seat.
I cheacked my bulkhead dimensions again - the top of the rear seat
bulkhead is back 3/16" off perfect.
Did anyone cut the aluminum frame and re-weld or simply attach a
different piece altogether?
Thanks,
Boris Robinson
RV4 trying to finish up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jaugilas <jaugilas(at)allways.net> |
Correction,
A #40 drill is used to install a 3/32" rivet. A 3/32 rivet is .0937" in
dia. and the #40 drill is .098" in dia. In the practice, if you drilled
a 3/32" hole you wouldn't be able to get the rivet into the hole without
difficulty.
The same goes true for 1/8" rivets. You use a #30 drill. A 1/8" rivet is
.125" in dia. A #30 drill is .1285" in dia.
Bill Jaugilas
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>
> The 3/32 rivet will be just a little looser in a hole drilled 3/32 and will
> have to swell or "upset" just a little more to fill that bigger hole. Same
> with the larger rivets. The smaller the hole, the better the fit. That's
> why good practice requires us to use slightly smaller drills.
>
> Steve Soule
> Fitting the VS to my RV-6A fuselage. Nobody has to ask "what is that thing"
> or "which end is the front" anymore. It looks very airplane-like now.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> I KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS IS IN THE ARCHIVES, BUT I
> CANNOT ACCESS AT
> THIS TIME. SO MY QUESTIONS ARE:
>
> 1.WHAT HAPPENS IF ONE DRILLS A 3/32" DIA HOLE FOR A
> 3/32"
> RIVET?
> 2. MUST WE USE A #40 OR 41 DRILL?
> 3. I ASSUME THE SAME ANSWER WILL APPLY TO THE 1/8"
> RIVETS,
> RIGHT ?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: batteries/starters 101 |
>
>
>Dear gang,
>
>My O-360, 180 hp RV-4 has never turned over quickly since I purchased it
>two months ago. When running, the panel volt meter shows nearly 14 volts. I
>checked the meter with my trusty Radio Shack multi meter with the plane at
>rest. They agree exactly. I decided to charge the battery, a one year old
>RG battery designed for wheelchair use. At rest, the battery shows 12.9
>volts.
Typical . . .
>
While on a slow, 2 amp , auto shut-off trickle charge, the panel
>volt meter was showing 14.9 volts. How can this be? Is my new battery
>charger overcharging?
If it's not a voltage regulated battery charger, it can indeed
overcharge any battery.
> . . .Can a fully charged RG battery ever show 12.9 volts?
>Meanwhile, when I tried to start the engine ( with fuel off), it still
>turns over very slowly....one half revolution at a time. The outside temp.
>is about 40+ degrees. Is my starter, a Nippon-Denso, not working well? How
>do I check it. Should I use my perfectly good auto battery with
>conventional jumpers to test the starter. I guess I am thinking of
>disconnecting the aircraft's battery from its cables and attaching my
>automobile's battery in its place via cables. I would then disconnect the
>alternator's field circuit- just for safety. Then, I would try to turn over
>the engine(again with no fuel) just to see how rapidly it turns over.
Check the VOLTAGE at the starter terminals while cranking. Many
airplanes suffer from too many pieces, too small a wire and marginally
designed ground systems. 99% of the time, good batteries and starters
are hamstrung by condition of other components in the system.
Measuring from battery (+) to starter (+) while cranking should
show less than 1.5 volts drop . . . ideally less than 1.0 volts.
Measuring from battery (-) to starter case while cranking should
be under 1.0 volts.
Have the battery load tested by a battery shop. Crank up the load
until the voltage drops to 8.5 volts . . . the current dump under
these conditions should not be less than 300 amps. A good 25 a.h.
battery should dump over 500 amps.
If all the above is good, then the starter has a problem.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< If you continue to do >
< What you've always done >
< You will continue to be >
< What you've always been. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Martin <fairlea(at)execulink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 Canopy Frame |
A
>
>The rear portion of my canopy frame (sqaure tubing) is angled forward
>and has a 1" gap to the rear seat bulkhead - uncomfortable for the head
>when in the rear seat.
>
>
>Did anyone cut the aluminum frame and re-weld or simply attach a
>different piece altogether?
>
>Boris Robinson
The easiest thing to do in the long run is to cut the frame and make it fit
the canopy. I would cut it, and then clamp the pieces where you thing they
should go. Then proceed with fitting the canopy to the frame and fuselage.
After that take the frame and get it welded. I know that this seems like a
pain but in the long run it is a lot faster and you will have less chance of
cracking your bubble.
While you are at it get the welder to weld on two tabs, one front
and back. These will now hold the canopy hold down pins. By using these tabs
you can have a two position canopy, closed and part open for taxing on hot days.
Tom Martin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Christensen" <peterchristensen(at)serviceresourcesinc.com> |
| Subject: | Pittsburgh RVers |
Listers: In the next couple months, I'll be moving back to Pittsburgh, PA
after living down here in the Atlanta area for about a year (although given
the weather up there lately and the success of the Falcons, I'm not sure
why). I don't remember seeing any listers up in the Pittsburgh area --
are there any of you out there? Is there a reasonably active EAA chapter
there? I used to fly out of Allegheny County airport, and I assume that
any RV flyers in the area would also be based there, but I don't remember
seeing any (although back then I wouldn't know what an RV was). Respond to
me off-line.
Also, if any of you out there have any thoughts on how I can safely pack
and move my finished (by then) empennage pieces cross country, I would
appreciate it (there's not much in the archives). Thanks a pile.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A, rudder, elevators
Marietta, GA ... soon to be back in the 'Burgh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Happens to me all the time. Just run a drill bit through there to straighten
it out. I keep my DeWalt cordless handy for this very purpose. The longer
the line of rivets, the less likely they are to all line up by the time you
get to the end. Dimpling compounds this problem. The more important the line
of rivets, the less likely they are to line up properly. Another trick that
helps when riviting long rows: If you can, start in the center, then do the
two ends, then center between the center and the ends, and so on until you
are done. Use this method for drilling, clecoing, and riveting. It does seem
to help. I picked this up off the list about a year ago, and used it for all
of my control surfaces.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
>
>Okay Moe, all this talk about dimpled holes is driving me crazy. I
confess...
>When I back riveted the stiffeners, every single hole seems to be off
center. I
>can see a tiny portion of the dimpled hole underneath the bucked head of
the
>rivet on one edge.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Doh! Sorry Adrian, I misread your post. This does not happen to me all the
time, but it has happened plenty of times! Chances are the rivet may be too
short, or you are not driving it straight. Take a good look at the shop
heads, are they too small to cover the hole, or are they all "smeared"? If
so, are they all smeared in the same direction? If so, you may be holding
the gun wrong, or something may be interfering with the gun. Is the skin up
out of your way? Are the holes too close to the stiffener flange? I ground a
flat edge on one side of the plastic guide on my backrivet set. Try raising
or lowering the gun pressure a few pounds. I belive the plans call for 3-3
rivets here, but I used 3-3.5's.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
| Subject: | Engines-Care and feeding of Lycomings |
> > Keep engine rpm to 1000-1200 for a few minutes monitoring oil pressure
> > ..Keep under red line. May have to drop below 1000 initially if engine
> is
> > started close to freezing temps with heavy oil to keep oil pressure
> within limits.
> > Move to run up area and assuming one is on pavement warm up into wind
> at
> 1400 to say 100-120 degrees on the oil.
> > Then go to 1700 and check mags and or electronic ignition.
>
i have often wondered what the "approved procedure" is for doing a run-up
when the oil temp is too low. we are taught to do run-ups into the wind to
get the cooling airflow. but if you are trying to get the oil to heat up i
would think that you would not want do that. is this ok? or is there some
overriding reason to point the nose into the wind? also, at what oil temp
(or is oil pressure more important?)can you start applying more than 1000
rpm?
obviously, i don't do much winter flying in the spam cans, but when i finish
my All-Weather All-Season Day-Night Total-Performance RV-6A i will need to
learn this stuff.
louis cappucci
mamaroneck, ny
6a-qb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Throttle/Mixture Springs |
I have seen a couple of messages about the mixture cable failing. Every once
in a while there will be a Service Difficulty Report about a Throttle cable
failing. There is even an AD to replace the fiber locked mixture bolt with
a drilled bolt and Castellated nut on Cessna 150s. This was after several
instances of the bolt attaching the cable to the mixture arm fell off.
I started a Vari Eze and know what Burt Rutan set up for the long control
cables. They need the springs.
It is my opinion, that if you have a mixture control or throttle fail, you
really have a maintenance problem. Every time we overhauled the engine in
our SkyHawk, we replaced the mixture cable with a new assembly. I have
replaced the inner wire on my Bellanca as it was about half worn through
after 2200 hours and 50 years. If you have a solid inner wire control, you
should release, pull it out, and check the entire length of the wire each
annual. If the throttle gets hard to push or pull, Don't fly! It needs
checking. Neither of these control should have problems in the first 1000
hours. This is 5 to 10 years of flying for most people. During that time,
these controls should be checked at least once a year. They should be
cleaned and lubricated when necessary.
If the maintenance of the controls isn't done, what keeps the springs and
their attachment from failing also?
There is nothing that stops a pilot from looking under the cowl. After all,
it is the pilot's responsibility to determine whether the airplane is
airworthy, not your mechanic.
-----Original Message-----
From: n41va(at)juno.com <n41va(at)juno.com>
Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Throttle/Mixture Springs
>
>Cy;
>What you say sounds reasonable, I was going by an Inspection Check List
>for Amateur Built Aircraft, found on the web at
>http://www.provide.net/~pratt/ambuilt/checklist.htm
>Under engine compartment it says; Throttle cables anchored and
>functional, spring open. Also Mixture control; functional, spring full
>rich
>Is this just one inspectors interpretation, or is this required? Thanks.
>Von Alexander
>N41VA(at)juno.com
>
>writes:
>>
>>Why do you think springs are necessary? Have you ever had a throttle
>>or
>>mixture break? Have you ever seen these springs on a production
>>airplane?
>>
>>It would take a lot of ware and time for either control cable to
>>break. If
>>you are doing proper maintenance, you would catch it long before any
>>problem
>>would develop. You do have the pivot bolts drilled and keyed, don't
>>you?
>>This is an FAA requirement.
>>
>>On both controls you want them to be set easily, a spring would tend
>>to undo
>>you careful settings. The mixture control, unless you are using a
>>vernier
>>would always be creeping rich if you had a spring. You would have to
>>tighten down the lock on your non-vernier throttle to prevent the same
>>thing. This would produce more wear.
>>
>>On systems that don't use stiff cables, such as bicycle brake cables,
>>then
>>the flexibility might necessitate a return spring. Bert Rutan used it
>>in
>>the Vari Eze for example, due to very long controls. They were
>>necessary as
>>the flexible cable only pulled and could not push like you controls.
>>Is you
>>are using stiff wire control you should not have any reason to have
>>the
>>springs.
>>
>>If it was a good idea, the FAA would require it. They don't!
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: n41va(at)Juno.com <n41va(at)Juno.com>
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 10:13 AM
>>Subject: RV-List: Throttle/Mixture Springs
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Since it would seem desirable, if not necessary, to install springs
>>on
>>>the throttle and mixture (throttle to full open, mixture to full
>>rich),
>>>how do I go about doing this? My Bart Lalonde engine does not have
>>>springs on either, shouldn't this be standard?
>>>Von Alexander
>>>N41VA(at)juno.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
Well, I knew that would get everyone's attention!
I helped another 8 builder rivet the leading edges on his wings last Friday,
and looking at his front spar, I have a question. Along the back of the spar
is the "waffle" plate that extends the entire length. On the front are the
two pieces of barstock, starting at the inboard end of the spar and
extending to about 8" past the fuel tanks. These bars are machined down
about 1/8" at a time, until they terminate, making a kind of "step" effect.
Now my question: Why don't they just extend the bars all the way to the end
of the wing?? I would think that the weight increase would be minimal, and
since this is where the 8 wing broke, wouldn't the increase in strength be
worth it? It would seem to me like a simple fix. No additional holes would
have to be drilled, the rivets holding on the waffle plate would have to be
longer to hold the bar. Is there something that I'm not seeing? I know a
retrofit would not be feasable, but it could still benefit future builders.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AoA indicator report (Proprietary Software |
Systems)
>It is not clear from your message whether you confirmed the accuracy
>of the stall indication in accelerated flight. How closely to the
>actual stall does it indicate the stalled condition in 1g flight?
This weekend I flew down to Riverside to participate in the CAF formation
flying workshop. On the way down I experimented with accelerated stalls at
various bank angles and airspeeds to see if the PSS AoA indicator
accurately reflects critical AoA (stall) at various wing loadings.
I am happy to say that the unit is extremely accurate. It indicates
critical AoA (last chevron disappears at the top of the display) right at
stall at G loading up to 4.5 Gs. I only tested the unit with the aircraft
in the clean (gear/flaps up) configuration but that is the only
configuration I am likely to be in when I am pulling Gs.
At this point I would have to say that I would recommend this instrument
without any reservation. The only question now is whether you thing AoA is
worth the $1400 price tag. I suspect that the "sport" version at $800 or
so will be more attractive to most people.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer! |
> I thought it was 3/16 so I used my head instead of looking it up and
drilled >near the center of the stubs as possible. Now, when I drill it
to
>the called out 5/16 I will not have required edge distance which is 2x
>bolt diameter.
========================
Hal:
I am lost. If you drilled in the center with a 3/16, you will have 5/8 (
2x 5/16) to the edge.
Can't we just drill larger to 5/16 with it?
> I thought it was as for rivets, 1.5x.
=============================
Rivets edge distance should be 2X minimum. Ref AC 43.13-1A Page 51.
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing rear spar connection to fuselage - bummer! |
We had a similiar situation on the B-1, as we were trying to mate -4 wings to
a Rocket fuse. The fuse taper is way different, and it showed up at the rear
spar fittings. We attached two pcs of 3/16 angle to the side of the fuse, both
fwd and aft of the original fitting. We also installed a doubler behind
(inside the fuse) this arrangement.
Remember: this is a pivot joint! These parts will move in relation to each
other. You can over-build the fuse attach without too much worry. As the 23XXX
series airfoil has a very steady center of pressure regardless of AOA, the
strain on the rear spar attach in not that much. Remember the story of the
scratch-built -4 that flew with no fastener in this hole? as a matter of fact,
the hole was never drilled! Scary! It does show that the strain here is
minimal, tho.
Check six!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 spar mod? |
MOE I DID JUST THAT PLUS 032 ONE PIECE SKINS AND MORE
TOM RV8
TIO540S1AD LYC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 spar mod? |
In a message dated 1/20/99 3:52:56 PM Central Standard Time, WFACT01(at)aol.com
writes:
> MOE I DID JUST THAT PLUS 032 ONE PIECE SKINS AND MORE
> TOM RV8
> TIO540S1AD LYC
>
Is your RV8 up and flying I would like to here more about the performance with
the 540 engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <daronson(at)cwnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PPG Concept Paint |
Dear Listers:
I have used the PPG Concept Paint for motor mount and all interior parts with
good success. Picked this paint for durability, scratch resistance and past
experience with PPG products. NOTE: Mix hardener as well as activator for hard
surface. Also wear protective gear (fresh air supply) as toxic affects will
surely screw-up your future fun with your RV.
Dave, RV4 finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Clark, Thomas IFC" <clarktm(at)ifc.utc.com> |
Moe,
You are not the first to think of this! I have modified my spars to
extend this reinforcement strip out several feet. I used 3/16"x 1.125"
2024 material on the top and 1/8"x 1.125" on the bottom. Leading edge
ribs had to be modified slightly. The whole job took a full day to
completely modify both spars. This modification made me feel more
comfortable.
Tom Clark 80525 wings in the jig
January 14, 1999 - January 20, 1999
RV-Archive.digest.vol-gf