RV-Archive.digest.vol-gj

February 08, 1999 - February 14, 1999



      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Fw: JPI threats
Date: Feb 08, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Ronald James Wanttaja <wanttaja(at)halcyon.com> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 12:29 AM Subject: Re: JPI threats >In article <79ln77$1vc$1@remarQ.com>, John Forzetting wrote: >>The fact is that the US Trademark office shows the word SCANNER trademarked >>78 times in different phrases and 10 times alone as a single word.....so >>just who the heck do these people think they are???? > >They think they're the people who can afford to pay for lawyers, and >that Matt *can't*. > >I hereby offer $100 for the Mattronics legal defense fund. Can somebody >advise us on how to set up such a fund? > >Ron Wanttaja >wanttaja(at)halcyon.com >http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360B1B Operators manuals
> >I need to order the parts and operators manuals for my Lycoming >IO-360B1B(wide deck). Try Sacramento Skyranch. They have always had what I needed in the way of Lycoming manuals. Tell them the engine number and they will get you the correct manual. See their web site at http://www.sierra.net/skyranch/. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Shelby Smith <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360B1B Operators manuals
Stan Blanton wrote: > > > I need to order the parts and operators manuals for my Lycoming > IO-360B1B(wide deck). > > Can someone suplly the correct Lycoming part numbers for these? From the > Chief catalog it looks like PC106 for the parts catalog and 60297-12 for the > operators manual but I'm not sure. > > Thanks, > > Stan Blanton > RV-6 > Lubbock, TX I am pretty sure you can order those directly from Lycoming. Their number is 717-327-7278. I think the operators manual is the same for all direct drive four cylinders. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Zeidman, Richard B" <Richard.Zeidman(at)PHL.Boeing.com>
Subject: "Smoking Rivets"
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Listers, I recently purchased my RV6 fuselage jig from a builder who proceeded to tell me of a problem with "smoking rivets" at the bottom skin joint at the rear of the F604 bulkhead. His solution to the so called problem was to add a 3rd row of rivets to the lap joint and to dimple the bottom of the f604. This is pretty hardy material to dimple but he feels that it is necessary. Maybe a csink into the 604 would suffice. Have any of you had this problem with your finished aircraft or is this overreacting to a rare occurrence? Rich Z. RV6A 25224 Framing Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: "Smoking Rivets"
Date: Feb 08, 1999
> >Listers, >I recently purchased my RV6 fuselage jig from a builder who proceeded to >tell me of a problem with "smoking rivets" at the bottom skin joint at the >rear of the F604 bulkhead. My 8 year old RV6 with 1,300 hrs has no smoking rivets in that area. I attribute that to the fact that I dimpeled both the forward belly skin (despite it's .040 thickness) and the center belly skins and countersunk the F604 bulkhead. I used the 3/32" rivets shown in the original plans. Dimpling locks the parts together and reliefs the rivet from shear stress, making an assembly much more resistant to shear. I recently did some repair work on a 6A with only 200 hrs on it that had the rivets in that area countersunk and it already showed considerable "smoking" along the entire 604 bulkead line. Martin Sutter RV6 N868CM 1,300 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle 925-606-1001)
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Subject: PLEASE READ - Trademark Issue, Comment on Fund...
Dear Listers, While I prefer not to specifically comment at this point, let me just say that I have been overwhelmed by the positive response and support Matronics has received in the last few days. It is truly wonderful to have so many people in the industry supporting me and my company. I would like to make one comment now regarding the "Defense Fund" that a number of people have suggested. While this issue may come down to this level of support, I am hoping that this can all be resolved without any legal intervention. I would hate for everyone to send contributions at this early stage, only to have the issue easily resolved without complication. I would feel it necessary at that point to return the contributions to those who had so graciously submitted them. However, I do want to thank everyone for this wonderful offer. I will generally refrain from further comment at this point either in this public forum or in private, unless it is to provide updates on new developments. I do want to thank *everyone*, however, who has showed their support up to this point. I am truly touched by the overwhelming positive, and professional responses I have seen thus far. Thank you so much, Matt Dralle Matronics RV, Rocket, Kolb, and Zenith List Admin. -- Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rd Gibbs" <richgibb(at)mcn.net>
Subject: Re: IO-360B1B Operators manuals
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Stan, You are correct in the part numbers, but the IO-360-B1B is not a wide cylinder flange engine. It is a standard flange. If you have any other questions feel free to ask, I am an A/P and IA with right at 20 years experience. Don't have all the answers, but know where to get them. I just ordered the tail for a 6A. Rich Gibbs ---------- > From: Stan Blanton <stanb(at)door.net> > To: rv-list > Subject: RV-List: IO-360B1B Operators manuals > Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 2:02 PM > > > I need to order the parts and operators manuals for my Lycoming > IO-360B1B(wide deck). > > Can someone suplly the correct Lycoming part numbers for these? From the > Chief catalog it looks like PC106 for the parts catalog and 60297-12 for the > operators manual but I'm not sure. > > Thanks, > > Stan Blanton > RV-6 > Lubbock, TX > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Subject: Re: main wheel fairings fitting (BULHEAD)
From: "William R. Davis Jr" <rvpilot(at)Juno.com>
Doug, Believe me, that hole is necessary. I didn't know enough to do this on my wheel fairings and found them sucked in like a sour lemon one day after a 90 min. flight at altitude. Fortunatly, after drilling a 1/4 inch hole near the top of the bulkhead they soon returned to normal. Best regards, Bill N66WD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Santschi" <rv8pilot(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Dimpling
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Is it possible to redimple a 3/32 dimple to a 1/8 dimple,[put wrong dies in]. Would there be any problem with this, only have four to do. Chris S Horiz stab.80881 Festus,MO. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Subject: ECONOMIC INTERFERENCE
Folks I am no lawyer(thank God), and I realize that this may not make any difference to a sitting judge, however, here is how I view a Legal Defense Fund. I can see no reason why it would not be viable, technically. As you all know, we have a sitting President that has been, for whatever reasons, in a number of legal battles for awhile now. I know that there is a Legal Defense Fund for him that anyone can contribute to if they wish to. There has never been any speculation by the "media" that there was a problem with this. do not archive. Jim Nice ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Subject: RV-8-N41VA
Just thought I would post the results of my weight and balance and first run test all of which we did today. The weight of my RV-8 after checking 3 times, 970 lbs. I have an Aerosport 0-360, which started after only 2 blades and ran like silk. Another true testament to Bart's engines! We are now ready to fly! (after inspection and some decent weather, that is) Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: IO-360B1B Operators manuals
Stan, My Lyc. Operator Manual has on the cover: Series 0-360, IO-360, IO-360, AIO-360, HIO-360 & TIO-360. It is manual # 60297-12. I question wether you really have a wide flange because the "B" series is not listed on my wide flange parts catalog. It is for: IO/LIO-360-C,-J,-HIO, -TIO, -AEIO-360 Series; Wide Cylinder Flange Models. No -B series in it. It is PC-406-2 and you don't want it. Just call Lycoming and order it from them. Thats what I did. AL > >I need to order the parts and operators manuals for my Lycoming >IO-360B1B(wide deck). > >Can someone suplly the correct Lycoming part numbers for these? From the >Chief catalog it looks like PC106 for the parts catalog and 60297-12 for the >operators manual but I'm not sure. > >Thanks, > >Stan Blanton >RV-6 >Lubbock, TX > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: canopy, vinyl ester, plexiglass, aaaarrrrrggghhhhh
Date: Feb 08, 1999
I checked with Ken Scott this morning about what the construction manual recommends for approved resin on plexiglass canopies. It turns out that vinylester resin was recommended because it had been use on a couple of company prototypes in the past with no difficulties. The resin was purchased from Glasair through a Glasair builder. I can't understand why Stoddard Hamilton wouldn't notify Van's aircraft if they made a change in the resin that they supply for there kits :-) . There was many posts on the canopy/fiberglass subject not to long ago (see the archives) , but I will repeat for any new builder that is interested. If you are not sure what resin/epoxy to use on your canopy finishing... I highly recommend that you just purchase the West systems products. It is easy to mix/use and will give good results without causing any problems with the plexi. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Jim Shop <shoptalk(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Jim Shop <shoptalk(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
unsubcribe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Jim Shop <shoptalk(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Unsubcribe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Jim Shop <shoptalk(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Unsubcribe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: Jim Shop <shoptalk(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: (no subject)
Unsubcribe list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob Reece" <reece(at)rt66.com>
Subject: "Smoking Rivets"
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Martin- For those of us with older RV-3's, numbers like 604, etc., don't mean much. Can you elaborate in general terms on the specific area that you are talking about? I'd like to hear more about it on the 200hr RV. Appreciate any insight as to educating me on the problem. Rob Reece RV-3 SN45 Socorro, NM I recently did > some repair > work on a 6A with only 200 hrs on it that had the rivets in that area > countersunk and it already showed considerable "smoking" along the entire > 604 bulkead line. > > Martin Sutter RV6 N868CM 1,300 hrs > > > --------- > > --------- > > --------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GSTRV8(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 08, 1999
Subject: fuselage jig
Free RV-8 fuselage jig, Leeward Air Ranch, Ocala, Fl. Gil Theriault RV-6/8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: aeronut <aeronut(at)mci2000.com>
Subject: Re: fuel leak
I've had good initial success with Loctite 90 thread sealant in stopping a small leak. You put it on the outside surface. Capillary action takes it into the leaking site and it cures in about 24 hours @ 72 degrees F. I got this idea from Scott at Vans. Caveat: I have no long-term experience with it, but for 5 bucks and 10 minutes work what can you lose? George Kilishek #80006. -----Original Message----- From: John Hughes <jhughes(at)netquest.net> >> Any advice on how to fix a fuel leak? I have gas "seeping " out around a >> rivet on the top of my left tank. I can see a very small "pin" hole in >the >> paint, at the edge of the rivet. Being on top I only notice it when the >tanks >> are completely full. Would appreciate any ideas. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Walt Hastings RV-6A N79WH 115 hrs >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bktrub(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: unsubscribe
Unsubscribe. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: JPI ... A (slightly) different perspective
Date: Feb 09, 1999
2nd try .. first poting failed. The following is a slightly different perspective on the Matronics/JPI matter. First, I resonate with the initial reaction such a letter evokes. Yes, we are all flabergasted by the letter sent to Matt. And, we are all very supportive of Matt and feel things like this should not happen. But before we all react too quickly, at least **consider** the following. A least one of JPI's customers (me) who is ALSO building an RV (1.5 actually) has had very positive interactions with their people on the staff, their products and their president. I do NOT know them "personally", but this is enough for me to give them benefit of doubt. It is entirely **possible** that the president didn't even know about the letter to Matt! I do not know this for a fact ... supposition only. There are reasons for letters like that (even though I don't like the tone) and people do make mistakes. This does not make them blood-sucking slime. Maybe, just maybe, this is simply a case of their law firm being overzealous. Maybe, just maybe the president was going to do something about this with or without a response/reaction from any of us. I am also pretty sure that our responses will evoke SOME kind of reaction from him. Give Matt and the CEO/president time to discuss this before writing off a company that makes a fine aviation product. There are too few of them left. I want to believe they will "do the right thing" if given the space to do it. This is not the same as a massive company (or government agency) stomping on a small shop. They are BOTH small! Although I am not a lawyer, I do have responsibility for "Intellectual Property" (and other stuff) at a large company. Members of my staff and supporting lawyers do keep an eye out for patent and trademark infringement. Sometimes the perspective of one team member turns out to be WAY OFF BASE. Fortunately we have several checks and balances (big company bureaucracy ... ;-) ) that small companies do not have. I say that the president has NOT shown his true colors ... at least not to us ... YET. Maybe he has to Matt privately. We can attack what his lawyers did, and in the end he has to bear the responsibility for their actions, but let's give him a chance to have his company rise above it. And if he does, I shall be just as quick to applaud him as I was to chastise the actions of the firm representing him. I have shared my views directly with both Matt and their president (as one of his CUSTOMERS) via email and felt a need to share an alternate view with the "RV Family". Now, on the other hand, if he tells Matt to go pound sand, then its a horse of a different garage. James RV6A-QB ... instrument panel/control "quadrant" .5 RV6 ... installing "tail feathers" NO affiliation with JPI other than a satisfied customer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 08, 1999
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: JPI ... A (slightly) different perspective
> It is entirely **possible** that the president didn't even know about the > letter to Matt! I do not know this for a fact ... supposition only. > > There are reasons for letters like that (even though I don't like the tone) > and people do make mistakes. This does not make them blood-sucking slime. > Maybe, just maybe, this is simply a case of their law firm being > overzealous. Maybe, just maybe the president was going to do something about > this with or without a response/reaction from any of us. I am also pretty > sure that our responses will evoke SOME kind of reaction from him. Don't you think that JPI has had enough time to respond already if it was a mistake? If the President is such a great guy, I think that he would have corrected to problem pronto and at least sent an apology and explanation to Matt and hope fully the list. At least that's how I feel about it. DGM RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: Dimpling
I would say you can do that but brush up everthing with a scotch brite pad and make sure there are no burs and then go ahead and re dimple the 4 incorrectly set dimples to 1/8. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mgraffeo(at)mail.usa.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Question
While happily drilling the last HS-412 bracket, the center line string was moved slightly when I put a tool down on the spar. After drilling, I realized the tool had moved the string and the HS-412 was off about 1/8 of an inch. The only solution I could think of was to drill out a larger hole and put a larger rivet in. Is this the best solution in this situation? --------------------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email from USA.com at http://mail.usa.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: PLEASE READ - Trademark Issue, Comment on Fund...
Date: Feb 09, 1999
FYI, I'm not an attorney, but over the years my company has received several letters like the one you've mentioned. Usually it is a relatively inexpensive way for a company to have a competitor go through the expense of changing product labeling, advertising, product literature, etc. etc. The first letter usually has no "weight" . . . it is sent out by a law firm with the hope that the competitor will get shook up and make the changes. If you have an attorney dispute this via a simple letter . . . usually the other party recognizes you are not willing to bend, and they'll drop it. They usually don't want huge legal bills on stuff like this. So, my advice is to have an attorney send a simple letter saying you do not see any problems regarding the issue. This letter may cost you about $120 . . . but that should do it. As to the comments re: "Scanner", unfortunately the courts get weird when it comes to product labeling and trade mark issues. In one case I'm familiar with a company got into trouble with a product called NeuroMod . . . a second company claimed rights to "Neuro" . . . this was a medical company, and you'll find "neuro" all over the map . . . but the courts did say the company could not use NeuroMod!!! But, again, I think a formal response to the first letter from an attorney, NOT YOU, should put an end to this. Good luck. One other point, I find that companies that can't win in the marketplace sometimes try to win in court. Consumers are fed up with this. All of us in the aviation community know what court actions have done to the cost of flying--be it commercially built planes, engines, insurance, etc. So you'll have quite a bunch of supporters behind you if this goes further. Rick Jory Highlands Ranch, CO -----Original Message----- From: Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com> ; kolb-list(at)matronics.com ; zenith-list(at)matronics.com Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 6:06 PM Subject: RV-List: PLEASE READ - Trademark Issue, Comment on Fund... 925-606-1001) > > >Dear Listers, > >While I prefer not to specifically comment at this point, let me just say > > >Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 >925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email >http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: How to settle a law suit
May I suggest: It has been a while so the details are fuzzy in my head but... A few years ago South West Airlines sued Stevens Aircraft, a small FBO chain in the South East, over the slogan "Plane Smart". I suspect this was done by the airlines lawyers without the knowledge of the CEO, Herb Kelleher. Anyway, the hard drinking, chain smoking, fun loving Herb suggested to the fitness buff CEO of Stevens that they settle the dispute with an arm wrestle. They filled a Dallas auditorium and Herb, cigarette dangling from his mouth, lost quickly. Both parties then shook hands and declared that since they were not competitors that they could both continue to use the slogan. A charity walked away with a fistfull of dollars that the spectators paid to witness the settlement. I don't know the fate of the SW lawyers who initiated the proceedings. In this spirit, how about a similar type event at a Sun n Fun or Oshkosh forum. Money raised could go to the EAA Safety Foundation or the charity of choice of the winner. Having said that, let it be known that if this action costs Matt Draille or Matronics as little as $1.00 in defense I will not consider any JPI products for use in my RV-8. Scott A. Jordan 80331 fuselage in the mail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV-8-N41VA
Message text written byVon Alexander >The weight of my RV-8 after checking 3 times, 970 lbs. I have an Aerosport 0-360,< OK, what's the secret? You sure all the parts are there? Wings? Tail? I have decided to go with an O-360 to save the 30 - 40 pound difference with the IO-360 in the hope of keeping the weight under 1030 so that it will be a two place aerobatic plane. Even Van's proof of concept (N118RV) weighed 1090 with an IO-360, subtract 40 pounds for the O-360 still results in 1050 pounds. Don't see how there is much hope that I can match that! By the way, how'd the paint come out? Scott A. Jordan 80331 fuselage in the mail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: "Smoking Rivets"
listers, i've heard this term before, parden my ignorance, but what exactly is a smoking rivit? scott ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Pete Eslick <srcfla1(at)cftnet.com>
Subject: Re: PLEASE READ - I Need Your Help...
Cy Galley wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Ornellas <commwlthsls(at)msn.com> > To: beech-owners(at)madaket.netwizards.net > > Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 1:13 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: PLEASE READ - I Need Your Help... > > >what if you called it "The" Fuelscan or the "FuelScanner". The market will > >still get your message and know who you are and JPI shouldn't be a bother. > >Just a suggestion. > > > >John Ornellas > >N64CG > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Cy Galley <cgalley(at)accessus.net> > >To: Beech Owners > >Date: Sunday, February 07, 1999 1:16 PM > >Subject: Fw: RV-List: PLEASE READ - I Need Your Help... > > > > > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Matt Dralle 925-606-1001 <dralle(at)matronics.com> > >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com ; kolb-list(at)matronics.com > >>; zenith-list(at)matronics.com > >>; rocket-list(at)matronics.com > >> > >>Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 3:25 PM > >>Subject: RV-List: PLEASE READ - I Need Your Help... > >> > >> > >>925-606-1001) > >>> > >>> > >>>Dear Listers, > >>> > >>>I received the letter below from J.P. Instruments' attorneys yesterday. > >>>J.P. Instruments (JPI) manufactures aircraft engine monitoring > instruments > >>>and they are based out of Huntington Beach, California. In the letter, > >JPI > >>>alleges that because Matronics (my company and sponsor of these email > >>lists) > >>>uses the name "FUEL SCAN" on our product, Matronics is infringing on > JPI's > >>>registered trademark of "SCANNER". (The actual name of the Matronics > >>>product is "FUELSCAN" not "FUEL SCAN" as indicated.) They are requesting > >>>that Matronics discontinue the use of the name "FUEL SCAN" by > >>>February 19, 1999 or they will "resort to legal remedies." > >>> > >>>As you can imagine, this is very upsetting information. Changing the > name > >>>of the FuelScan now will cost thousands of dollars by having to redo > >>product > >>>literature, brochures, documentation, silk screening and a host of other > >>>items that include the name. Many of these items have been reproduced in > >>>large quantities to make the reproduction costs more affordable. All of > >>>this would have to be discarded and reproduced if Matronics is forced > >>>to comply. Perhaps even more significant, however, is the fact that > >>>after 4 years on the market, the Matronics FuelScan is just now becoming > >>>more widely known as a fine and reliable product. Changing the > FuelScan's > >>>name at this critical time in the product's life would be a devastating > >>>blow to both the long term successfulness of the FuelScan as well as > >>>to financial stability of Matronics. Complying with JPI's request could > >>>cause Matronics to cease to exist as we now know it and might very well > >>>jeopardize the many other services Matronics provides to the Aviation > >>>community such as these email Lists and web site. > >>> > >>>With that all being said, I'm not sure what to do at this point. There > is > >>>no way that I can afford to fight JPI over this. I definitely don't want > >>>to just roll over and give them their way, either. It just doesn't seem > >>>quite fair that they could put me out of business because, in their > >>>estimation, "my product might be confused with their's". > >>> > >>>If there is anyone out there that could offer some legal advise or > >>>consultation in these matters, I would really appreciate it. It would > >>>also seem, that with nearly 1900 members on the combined four email > Lists, > >>>we would represent a rather strong voice. If anyone has any ideas on how > >>>to organize that strength to help resolve this matter, I would love to > >>>hear it. > >>> > >>>I would like to thank everyone here in advance for all of your support > >over > >>>the years. It's in times like these that it becomes very apparent what a > >>>truly great group of people these Lists represent. I thank you. > >>> > >>> > >>>Matt Dralle > >>>Matronics > >>>RV, Rocket, Kolb & Zenith List Admin. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >- > >>- > >>>Reprint of FACSIMILE > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >- > >>- > >>>Price, Gess & Ubell > >>>Attorneys at Law > >>>2100 S.E. Main Street, Suite 250 > >>>Irvine, California 92614-6238 > >>>February 5, 1999 > >>> > >>>Joseph W. Price > >>>Albin H. Gess > >>>Franklin D. Ubell > >>>Doyle B. Johnson > >>>Michael J. Moffatt > >>>Gordon E. Gray III > >>>Bradley D. Blanche > >>> > >>>A Professional Corporation > >>>Telephone: (949) 261-8433 > >>>Facsimile: (949) 261-9072 > >>>Facsimile: (949) 261-1726 > >>> > >>>e-mail: pgu(at)pgulaw.com > >>> > >>> > >>>VIA FACSIMILE > >>>------------- > >>> > >>> > >>>President > >>>Matronics, Inc. > >>>P.O. Box 347 > >>>Livermore, CA 94551 > >>> > >>> Re: J.P. Instruments v. Matronics, Inc. > >>> Our Ref: JPI1-700a > >>> > >>>Dear Sir or Madam: > >>> > >>> Enclosed for your review is the federal trademark registration > for > >>>"SCANNER" owned by J.P. Instruments. We have recently discovered your > use > >>>of the mark "FUEL SCAN" for after-market aircraft parts. The use of > >>>FUEL SCAN is likely to cause confusion with our client's trademark > >>>SCANNER and therefore infringes our client's trademark. > >>> > >>> We request that you respect our client's intellectual property > >>>rights and stop using the FUEL SCAN mark. If you do not confirm that > >>>you have stopped using the FUEL SCAN mark by February 19, 1999, our > >>>client will resort to its legal remedies. > >>> > >>> If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. > >>> > >>>Very truly yours, > >>> > >>>PRICE, GESS & UBELL > >>> > >>>[signature] > >>> > >>>Gordon E. Gray > >>> > >>>GEG:xox > >>>Enclosure > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >- > >>- > >>>Reprint of Trademark Enclosure > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >- > >>- > >>>Int. Cl.: 9 > >>>Prior U.S. Cl.: 26 > >>>United States Patent and Trademark Office > >>> > >>>Reg. No 1,943,281 > >>>Registered Dec. 26, 1995 > >>> > >>>TRADEMARK > >>>PRINCIPAL REGISTER > >>> > >>>SCANNER > >>> > >>>J.P. INSTRUMENTS (CALIFORNIA CORPORATION) > >>>1540-K EAST EDINGER > >>>SANTA ANA, CA 92705 > >>> > >>> FOR: ENGINE TEMPERATURE INDICATORS, IN CLASS 9 (U.S. CL. 26) > >>> > >>> FIRST USE 6-0-1884; IN COMMERCE 6-0-1984. > >>> SEC. 2(F). > >>> > >>> SER. NO. 73-742,104, FILED 7-25-1988 > >>> > >>>KATHRYN ERSKINE, EXAMINING ATTORNEY > >>> > >>> > >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - > >- > >>- > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 > >>>925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email > >>>http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > - > >>> > - > >>> > - > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > Dear Mr. Dralle: Although I am not an attorney, I have had quite a lot of interaction with the profession as a real estate developer. It seems clear that there is enough difference between Fuel Scan, and Scanner, that a judge would rule in your favor. It may be distasteful to you but were you to discuss the situation with a good (read - fierce) legal beagle, you might be justified in telling them to take a hike. In the event you decide to change names, there is no reason to do it immediately. Simply ignore there demand and make them pursue an action. They have to know they will be on thin ground and may choose not to pursue the issue. Best of luck. Pete ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mhiatt(at)unlnotes.unl.edu
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: JPI, &c.
Legal procedings are expensive. Using that expense as a weapon is fairly common in the world of Big Biddness. There is a pretty fair chance that *nothing* further will be heard from JPI on this matter. If Matt does nothing at all, it'd be too expensive for JPI to pursue this in the courts, just as it would be too expensive for Matt to defend himself. And JPI knows their position is bogus and that they'd very likely lose. That's an awful lot of money tossed around to no good end. If I had to bet (and I don't gamble, I play poker), I'd say that JPI isn't at all interested in going to court on this. They're hoping Matt will just cave and they had no idea that Matt was a member of the new media. As they used to say "Never argue with someone who buys newsprint by the truckload and ink by the barrel". JPI undoubtedly had *no* idea that they were messing their own nest when filing this. They were just hoping to scare Matt, to bully him into caving. But it can work the other way, too. If someone were to, say, call or write to one of the attorneys named in one of the earlier posts, and receive any response, the cost of the time it takes to do that (even if all they say is "It's none of your damned business") would be charged to the person doing the hiring... JPI. When the risk/benefit ratio gets too far out of whack, The Plaintiff has been known to drop a case from time to time. It costs a lot to maintain and send out catalogs. It costs a lot to maintain mailing lists. Small companies can't afford expensive list-management software to filter out duplicate addresses, catalogs sent to work, neighbors, etc. For the most part, a company that does business this way thinks that for every catalog it sends out, it's going to get back a quarter or a dollar or some other figure in sales. If, for any reason, catalog requests go up and yet orders remain flat or decline, the company has to bear the increased costs. And those increased costs get passed along to the consumers who do decide to buy. I'm not suggesting that everyone call JPI's lawyers, or call JPI and request that they send a catalog to be used for firewood. I'm just pointing out that nobody starts a war expecting to lose, and that often people are more vulnerable to outside influences than it might first appear. I don't expect this to end up in court at all. Mark Hiatt Lincoln Nebraska's Largest Manufacturer of Personal Aircraft. Oshkosh 1996 - RV6A Tailkit purchased from Van His Own Self. My wife still refers to it as the year I went to Oshkosh... ...to get a little tail! ==== Proud to be: JPI-Free! === ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Ed Wischmeyer <edwisch(at)earthlink.net>
Ed
Subject: Need Advice - prosealing gas tank sen
> I found some 8-32 3/4" socket head screws at local hardware store - > high strength carbon steel type. They are generally in the Be real careful here. Aircraft screws have 110 degree countersinks, and almost all other kinds of screws have something else -- 88, if I recall correctly. So, if you use non-aircraft screws in a 110 degree countersink, all the load goes into the point of the hole, and is not evenly distributed. I've not got my notes here, and have probably boogered some of the details, but you get the idea... Ed Wischmeyer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DiMeo, Robert" <Robert.DiMeo(at)sbs.siemens.com>
Subject: Question
Date: Feb 09, 1999
While happily drilling the last HS-412 bracket, the center line string was moved slightly when I put a tool down on the spar. After drilling, I realized the tool had moved the string and the HS-412 was off about 1/8 of an inch. The only solution I could think of was to drill out a larger hole and put a larger rivet in. Is this the best solution in this situation? I think the best thing to do is move the rivet hole. Consider the hole(s) you drilled as a lightening holes. Reposition the bracket and drill new holes a couple of diameters from the holes you just drilled. Be careful as you move the bracket, you will have to figure out where to put a rivet so the distances from both holes (spar and repositioned bracket) are enough. You should be able to end up with the same number of rivets and good strength in the area. If you're in doubt, get an A&P to look at it and help reposition the rivets. The other option is to put a doubler on the spar and re-drill through the bracket holes after repositioning the bracket. good luck Bob RV8#423 working on wings. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: JPI ... A (slightly) different perspective
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Unfortunately, Matronics is NOT the first company that JPI has attacked as I understand. The first company lost, which probably boosted JPI's courage to sue others. -----Original Message----- From: James E. Clark <jclark(at)conterra.com> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 12:34 AM Subject: RV-List: JPI ... A (slightly) different perspective > >2nd try .. first poting failed. > >The following is a slightly different perspective on the Matronics/JPI >matter. > > First, I resonate with the initial reaction such a letter evokes. > >Yes, we are all flabergasted by the letter sent to Matt. And, we are all >very supportive of Matt and feel things like this should not happen. > >But before we all react too quickly, at least **consider** the following. > >A least one of JPI's customers (me) who is ALSO building an RV (1.5 >actually) has had very positive interactions with their people on the staff, >their products and their president. I do NOT know them "personally", but >this is enough for me to give them benefit of doubt. > >It is entirely **possible** that the president didn't even know about the >letter to Matt! I do not know this for a fact ... supposition only. > >There are reasons for letters like that (even though I don't like the tone) >and people do make mistakes. This does not make them blood-sucking slime. >Maybe, just maybe, this is simply a case of their law firm being >overzealous. Maybe, just maybe the president was going to do something about >this with or without a response/reaction from any of us. I am also pretty >sure that our responses will evoke SOME kind of reaction from him. > >Give Matt and the CEO/president time to discuss this before writing off a >company that makes a fine aviation product. There are too few of them left. >I want to believe they will "do the right thing" if given the >space to do it. This is not the same as a massive company (or government >agency) stomping on a small shop. They are BOTH small! > >Although I am not a lawyer, I do have responsibility for "Intellectual >Property" (and other stuff) at a large company. Members of my staff and >supporting lawyers do keep an eye out for patent and trademark infringement. >Sometimes the perspective of one team member turns out to be WAY OFF BASE. >Fortunately we have several checks and balances (big company bureaucracy >... ;-) ) that small companies do not have. > >I say that the president has NOT shown his true colors ... at least not to >us ... YET. Maybe he has to Matt privately. We can attack what his lawyers >did, and in the end he has to bear the responsibility for their actions, but >let's give him a chance to have his company rise above it. And if he does, I >shall be just as quick to applaud him as I was to chastise the actions of >the firm representing him. > >I have shared my views directly with both Matt and their president (as one >of his CUSTOMERS) via email and felt a need to share an alternate view with >the "RV Family". > >Now, on the other hand, if he tells Matt to go pound sand, then its a horse >of a different garage. > > >James >RV6A-QB ... instrument panel/control "quadrant" >.5 RV6 ... installing "tail feathers" >NO affiliation with JPI other than a satisfied customer > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: Re: rv6a-Flapp Installation QBkit
Bert, I assume you are using elec flaps and that you are about to install them in the correct position according to plans. I have a standard kit (not QB) and along with the documentation for my elec flaps was a photograph showing the installation and I noticed a piece of angle aluminum attached to the forward side of the F-606 and the side skin. Nothing was mentioned in the written material but this may be what you're looking for to add some extra strength. Tom Barnes, Buffalo Grove, IL -6 canopy. -----Original Message----- From: Bert F. Murillo <bertrv(at)bellsouth.net> Date: Monday, February 08, 1999 4:40 PM Subject: RV-List: rv6a-Flapp Installation QBkit > >2/8/99 > > >I have requested my name to be added to the list of subscribers; hope it >is now listed. > >I have a question on the installation of the flap Assembly; I am ready >to drill holes thru the support blocks, that hold the (tube) agains the >fuselage L & R. I notice however that if I drill thru, the >bulk head on either side, the bolts would end on the otherside, below >the seat-floor this will cause >all kind of damage to bulk-head , other bolts etc... >Has any one had this problem? or am I doing something wrong here...Yes I >lined up the center >block, es suggested in the video. The wole assembly is too low in >relation to the other side, I need >at least 2/8 higher... >Also, I would like to hear about the priming of this ( and the >Rudder-Break unit) Is it necessary >to prime the outside? if so then one must remove the coat that the tube >now have. The dark brown >shine stuff no? How about the inside... >I would have liked to see George placing the unit inside the >fuselage......he does not let us know >his secrets..... boy that is a pain, it takes me now about 4 manouvers >to lay it flat...with only one >block...How I would do it with the two is beyhond me.... > >Your comments and ideas would be appreciated. > >I like this to be posted, but not filed I hope request is correct. >(New at this) > >bert f. murillo bertrv(at)bellsouth.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-8-N41VA
Hi Scott; I was surprised at the weight myself. You do have to remember, though, that proof of concept planes are always heavier than the production models; that's what I have been told, anyway. We plan to do a second weighing session to confirm everything again. The paint came out very good; I am very happy with it, and was not that difficult. Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > > >Message text written byVon Alexander >>The weight of my RV-8 after checking 3 times, 970 lbs. I have an >Aerosport 0-360,< > >OK, what's the secret? You sure all the parts are there? Wings? >Tail? > >I have decided to go with an O-360 to save the 30 - 40 pound >difference >with the IO-360 in the hope of keeping the weight under 1030 so that >it >will be a two place aerobatic plane. Even Van's proof of concept >(N118RV) >weighed 1090 with an IO-360, subtract 40 pounds for the O-360 still >results >in 1050 pounds. Don't see how there is much hope that I can match >that! > >By the way, how'd the paint come out? > >Scott A. Jordan >80331 >fuselage in the mail > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: 43.13
RVers: I pulled the below info off the rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup, for what it's worth. Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com **************** I got on the linux box and downloaded the whole AC43.13-b direct from the Government server. The quality of the PDFs is sufficient if printed on a laser printer. Viewed on screen the images look clear. If anyone is interested I have put the whole thing on a CD. They cost about $10 shipped anywhere in the Continental US or to US mil installations world wide -- Brian Ehrler Web Site Administrator http://www.omnispace.com E-commerce for the 21st century ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: SATURDAY AFTERNOON MEETING
From: Anthony J Castellano <tcastella(at)Juno.com>
What's your home address and/or what airport do you fly out of? Tony Castellano tcastella(at)juno.com Hopewell Junction, NY RV-6 (fuselage now out of jig) > > >I would like to know if anyone in the NY tri-state area would be >interested >in having a RV Saturday afternoon meeting. Shooting the breeze and war >stories >>would be on the agenda. Maybe we could also set up a TECH MEET. >Let me know Regards, Stan Z RV-6A THEZING3(at)AOL.COM > >Count me in. >Larry Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christensen, Peter" <pchristensen(at)sel.com>
Subject: How to settle a law suit
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Listers: I was off-line for about a week (the previously mentioned move to Pittsburgh), so I am in the dark on this issue with JPI and Matronics. Can someone give me a quick summary of what happened so that his thread makes sense to me? By the way, in case anyone cares, my new e-mail address is pchristensen(at)sel.com. Thanks. . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: fredkunkel <onecal1(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: A PERSPECTIVE ON LAWSUITS & LAWYERS
A gentlemen walked into his lawyer's office to settle some affairs, and the receptionist told him that his lawyer died the day before. "I'll be darned" he said, and walked out. The following day the gentleman came back and again asked for his lawyer. The receptionist said "He died two days ago.". "I'll be darned" the gentleman said, and walked out. The third day the gentleman walked into the office and, before he could say a word, the receptionist said "What part of HE DIED don't you understand?". "Nothing" the gentleman said, "I just like hearing it.". ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: J P Instruments
>So therefore, I hereby state that in today's mail, I am sending Matt the >1st $20 towards the establishment of a Legal Defense Fund. > >I am sick and tired of these ridiculous lawsuits that sap the >entrepreneurial spirit from many people while they are producing good >products and services and sometimes before they even begin to bring an >idea to market. > >Let's all pitch in, establish a war chest, blow these suckers out of the >water with a strong legal response, and move on. Sheeeshh! hang on guys, don't gather the wagons yet. I'll bet JPI had a huge pile of fax paper on the floor this morning, a jammed e-mail box and a long line of letters in the mail. I'm betting that as soon as the magnitude of negative PR is gaged, there will be a speedy and non-agressive resolution forthcoming. It wouldn't surprise me either that someone within JPI's organization will received some stern advice about launching such things in the future without carfully considering the value of the act. This was probably not JPI's collective fault rather an ill considered activity by someone who just didn't know any better. Let's not hang lables on anyone until we see how things shake out over the next few weeks. It's okay that we flex our collective moral muscles as consumers but it's much too early to be swinging big sticks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <James.E.Clark(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: JPI ... A (slightly) different perspective
Date: Feb 09, 1999
>Don't you think that JPI has had enough time to respond already if it was a Yes. You are correct in that there has been enough time to respond. And he may have and/or be in the process of doing so PRIVATELY with Matt. Somethimes the resolution of stuff like this gets done "in the quiet" and is "kept quiet" for a multitude of reasons. It is probably very appropriate for Matt to be VERY quiet on whatever (if anything) is going on at the moment. >mistake? If the President is such a great guy, I think that he would have >corrected to problem pronto and at least sent an apology and explanation to Matt Again, we do not know what he has done with/for Matt in response, and obviously we need to be sure and give Matt the space to work things out. I am sure he will give us all the relevant details that he can when he can. That simply *might* not be at this moment. >and hope fully the list. He actually does not owe the list anything. Since Matt informed us of the deed, Matt should inform us (at the appropriate time) of the outcome. Of course it would be ***NICE**** if he sent a response to the list. But unless he is an RV builder (or wannabe) he probably is not aware of the RV-List and its operation per se. Sure he knows there are a bunch of upset folks out there, who are building RVs and such and that he has lost many of them as future customers. >At least that's how I feel about it. Good points ... again just different perspectives. I believe that once we have all the facts and responses, a very clear, targetted and most impactful response from this list can be mustered up and effectively implemented. James > >DGM RV-6 >Southern Alberta > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Harmon Rocket II
I was fooling around on the computer this early this morn and found the HRII web page. I have always been fond of the Harmon Rockets, but this was the first time I had actually seen the specifications. I notice that it shows an empty weight of 1200 lbs, yet the max aerobatic weight is the same as the RV-8 at 1550 lbs. Do I understand this correctly that you would have only 350 lbs to include any fuel, pilot and passenger? With this size engine I wouldn't think you would want to start a local aerobatic routine with less than 20 gals, which would be 120 lbs, leaving a total of 230 lbs for pilot and passenger! Am I missing something? Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com>
Subject: Re: rv6a-Flapp Installation QBkit
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Bert: I had the same problem , and I just cut a notch in the seat skin to clear the head of the bolt. Not a big deal, IMO. One word of caution, if you have your finish kit, go ahead and mount the latch tube to the bulkhead before you put in your flap motor housing. This has had interference problems with other builders in the past, including me. They should have you do the flap motor housing AFTER the canopy frame. If you do not have the finish kit, don't worry about it. An easy solution for the canopy latch bar is to put some spacers between the nylon blocks and the bulkhead. This will keep the latch bar from rubbing on the flap housing. Hope this makes sense, Paul Besing RV-6A (197AB) Arizona http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er Finish Kit >>I have a question on the installation of the flap Assembly; I am ready >>to drill holes thru the support blocks, that hold the (tube) agains the >>fuselage L & R. I notice however that if I drill thru, the >>bulk head on either side, the bolts would end on the otherside, below >>the seat-floor this will cause >>all kind of damage to bulk-head , other bolts etc... >>Has any one had this problem? or am I doing something wrong here...Yes I >>lined up the center >>block, es suggested in the video. The wole assembly is too low in >>relation to the other side, I need >>at least 2/8 higher... >>Also, I would like to hear about the priming of this ( and the >>Rudder-Break unit) Is it necessary >>to prime the outside? if so then one must remove the coat that the tube >>now have. The dark brown >>shine stuff no? How about the inside... >>I would have liked to see George placing the unit inside the >>fuselage......he does not let us know >>his secrets..... boy that is a pain, it takes me now about 4 manouvers >>to lay it flat...with only one >>block...How I would do it with the two is beyhond me.... >> >>Your comments and ideas would be appreciated. >> >>I like this to be posted, but not filed I hope request is correct. >>(New at this) >> >>bert f. murillo bertrv(at)bellsouth.net >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re:How to settle a law suit
>It has been a while so the details are fuzzy in my head but... > >A few years ago South West Airlines sued Stevens Aircraft, a small FBO >chain in the South East, over the slogan "Plane Smart". I suspect this was >done by the airlines lawyers without the knowledge of the CEO, Herb >Kelleher. Anyway, the hard drinking, chain smoking, fun loving Herb >suggested to the fitness buff CEO of Stevens that they settle the dispute >with an arm wrestle. They filled a Dallas auditorium and Herb, cigarette >dangling from his mouth, lost quickly. Both parties then shook hands and >declared that since they were not competitors that they could both continue >to use the slogan. A charity walked away with a fistfull of dollars that >the spectators paid to witness the setlement. > >I don't know the fate of the SW lawyers who initiated the proceedings. > >In this spirit, maybe we can convince JPI to a similar type event at a Sun >n Fun or Oshkosh forum. Money raised could go to the EAA Safety Foundation >or the charity of choice of the winner. Good idea . . . I've met Matt but not Joe, the guy doesn't lift weights and weigh about 250 pounds, does he? >I would also encourage Matt to send a copy of the fax to EAA for >publication in the news column of the next Sport Aviation. If they do not >publish it we can barage them with letters for caving in to a large >advertiser. All that said, let it be known that if this action costs Matt >Draille or Matronics as little as $1.00 in defense, I will not consider any >JPI products for use in my RV-8. I think EAA would do well to stay out of it . . . after all, the reason for generation of the argument was neither illegal nor was it immoral in the general sense. What we're doing here is adding anohter dimension to JPI's reasons to do (or not do) something. Unlike our senators who SHOULD be bound m\by constitutional law, we are voting with the one ballot that makes sense for a decision like this - the pocketbook. I wouldn't blackball JPI if they choose to end this gracefully (or by means of the contest cited above) but I would happily trash 'em if their products don't match the marketing hype or fail to take good care of their customers. If this situation can be resolved WITHOUT enlisting the aid of institutionalized organizations then we will have demonstrated our OWN power as consumers. We've dealt JPI a hand from our own deck, let's see how they play it. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: JPI, lawsuit, et al.
Lots of heat, not much light here. I agree, JPI is wrong. Now that we have all given Matt our advice, let's get back to talking about airplanes. I am sure Matt will let us know when he needs more input and/or assistance. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: First 1999 Weekend Seminar Date
George and Becky Orndorff are hosting our first weekend seminar of the season again this year. see http://www.aeroelectric.com/seminars.html Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < Go ahead, make my day . . . > < show me where I'm wrong. > ================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Subject: Re: J P Instruments
Robert, I agree with you that this is most likely an "error" on someones part. But a strong response like we have demonstrated on the List has fortified Matte, (everyone needs moral support at times like this), and it has generated as you say mounds of paper at the FAX machine. Being gentle and not responding strongly is a sign of legal weakness. We on the List have done the right thing, that is strongly express our collective outrage to the appropriate person, the President of the company. Now that we have done our work as consumers and expressed our committment to Matte, it is time for them to respond. Lets get back to building and give JPI time to respond to Matte and let > > >>So therefore, I hereby state that in today's mail, I am sending Matt the >>1st $20 towards the establishment of a Legal Defense Fund. >> >>I am sick and tired of these ridiculous lawsuits that sap the >>entrepreneurial spirit from many people while they are producing good >>products and services and sometimes before they even begin to bring an >>idea to market. >> >>Let's all pitch in, establish a war chest, blow these suckers out of the >>water with a strong legal response, and move on. > > > Sheeeshh! hang on guys, don't gather the wagons yet. > I'll bet JPI had a huge pile of fax paper on the floor > this morning, a jammed e-mail box and a long line of > letters in the mail. > > I'm betting that as soon as the magnitude of negative > PR is gaged, there will be a speedy and non-agressive > resolution forthcoming. It wouldn't surprise me either > that someone within JPI's organization will received > some stern advice about launching such things in the > future without carfully considering the value of the act. > > This was probably not JPI's collective fault > rather an ill considered activity by someone who just > didn't know any better. > > Let's not hang lables on anyone until we see how things > shake out over the next few weeks. It's okay that we > flex our collective moral muscles as consumers but it's > much too early to be swinging big sticks. > > > Dan Wiesel RV6a QB starting finishing kit ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket II
<< I was fooling around on the computer this early this morn and found the HRII web page. I have always been fond of the Harmon Rockets, but this was the first time I had actually seen the specifications. I notice that it shows an empty weight of 1200 lbs, yet the max aerobatic weight is the same as the RV-8 at 1550 lbs. Do I understand this correctly that you would have only 350 lbs to include any fuel, pilot and passenger? With this size engine I wouldn't think you would want to start a local aerobatic routine with less than 20 gals, which would be 120 lbs, leaving a total of 230 lbs for pilot and passenger! Am I missing something? Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com Von: The Rocket figures are the same as for your ship, or just about any other RV: 'some' fuel, and 1 soul on board. Now, we haven't calculated a 'utility' weight, which would allow for a pax, but a lower G limit. I'd better put a man on that... I hope this helps! Check six! Mark Frederick Team Rocket >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H. Martin Sutter" <hmsutter(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: "Smoking Rivets"
Date: Feb 09, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Rob Reece <reece(at)rt66.com> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 2:53 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: "Smoking Rivets" > >Martin- > >For those of us with older RV-3's, numbers like 604, etc., don't mean much. >Can you elaborate in general terms on the specific area that you are talking >about? I'd like to hear more about it on the 200hr RV. Rob - The specific area involves the juncture of forward belly skin and center belly skin on the main spar carry-thru bulk head. Another stress area where smoking rivets are not uncommon is the juncture of forward belly skin and fire wall. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Harmon Rocket II
Date: Feb 09, 1999
>I wouldn't think you would want to start a local >aerobatic routine with less than 20 gals, which would be 120 lbs, leaving >a total of 230 lbs for pilot and passenger! Am I missing something? >Von Alexander >N41VA(at)juno.com > Don't look in the gas tank of any of your airshow heroes when they land after their performances. You wont find much more than fumes. If you look in the performer pits before the show, often you find them draining X/C fuel out to get down to "show weight." Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal dougr(at)petroblend.com http://www.petroblend.com/dougr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Subject: Re:allen head screws on inspection cover
Ed Wischmeyer wrote: > > Ed > Subject: RV-List: Need Advice - prosealing gas tank sen > Sender: owner-rv-list-server > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > I found some 8-32 3/4" socket head screws at local hardware store - > > high strength carbon steel type. They are generally in the > > Be real careful here. Aircraft screws have 110 degree countersinks, and almost > all other kinds of screws have something else -- 88, if I recall correctly. > So, if you use non-aircraft screws in a 110 degree countersink, all the load > goes into the point of the hole, and is not evenly distributed. > > I've not got my notes here, and have probably boogered some of the details, > but you get the idea... > > Ed Wischmeyer The screws attaching the fuel tank inspection cover are not countersunk. Allen head screws are fine in this application. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
Subject: requirements for landing stip
I called the FAA and asked them what is required in order to have a landing strip on one's private property. The FAA inspector told me that I didn't have to register it, but that if I notified the FAA and registered it, they would make safety recommendations to me, as well as allow it to be plotted on a sectional. Fine. So, I get this form in the mail from the FAA today (7480-1). The form begins by defining "airport" as "Any landing Area such as Airport, Heliport, Seaplane Base, Ultralight Flightpark, or Balloonport." Then, it states, in part, that one who establishes a new airport must notify the administrator by completing the 7480-1 form and submitting it. The form also sets out penalties for not following these instructions. The form in not unreasonably complex, but does require one to plot the coordinates, length, obstructions, other airports nearby, etc. You also indicate whether the "airport" is "personal", "private", or "public". It seems to me from this form that I DO have to register it. Any comments? adrian chick nashville, tn rv6a wings on order ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: 1st company
Date: Feb 09, 1999
did some research on DejaNews... > Unfortunately, it looks like the JPIdiots have ALREADY been to court on > this issue (with another instrument manufacturer), and the judge upheld > their claim! It's hard to beat precedent....> > Ron Wanttaja > wanttaja(at)halcyon.com -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Knoll <tripod(at)vvm.com> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:17 PM Subject: 1st company >Hi Cy, > >Unfortunately, Matronics is NOT the first company that JPI has attacked as I >understand. The first company lost, which probably boosted JPI's courage to >sue others. > >Who was the first company? also, if you know, whats the story and what were >their losses? > >Bruce Knoll >6 empennage 75% done > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N13eer(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: 150Hp in an 8
I have a line on a 150hp O-320 I am thinking about for my 8. From the information I have seen from Vans the smallest engine they recommend is a 160 hp for the 8. Is anyone going with a 150hp. I figure these engines have pull much heaver spam cans around the sky for a long time so it should not be an issue. Also, it should still fly like an RV. Thanks Alan Kritzman RV8 looking for the noisy part. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Dimpling
Date: Feb 09, 1999
> Is it possible to redimple a 3/32 dimple to a 1/8 dimple,[put wrong >dies in]. Would there be any problem with this, only have four to do. > > >Chris S >Horiz stab.80881 >Festus,MO. > > > There should be no problem doing this on just a few holes. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Question
Date: Feb 09, 1999
> >While happily drilling the last HS-412 bracket, the center line string >was moved slightly when I put a tool down on the spar. After >drilling, I realized the tool had moved the string and the HS-412 was >off about 1/8 of an inch. The only solution I could think of was to >drill out a larger hole and put a larger rivet in. Is this the best >solution in this situation? > I think the best solution would be to get a replacement bracket, and then back drill the bracket through the hole you already have in the spar. It might be close for edge distance but you should be ok. The 2D edge distance rule is for fasteners installed in aluminum only. Since the hinge brackets are steel you should be able to safely go down to 1.5D if you had too. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-8-N41VA
Date: Feb 09, 1999
The weight of my RV-8 after >checking >3 times, 970 lbs. I have an Aerosport 0-360, which started after only >2 >blades and ran like silk. Another true testament to Bart's engines! >We >are now ready to fly! (after inspection and some decent weather, that >is) >Von Alexander >N41VA(at)juno.com > > Von, Sorry to sound so pessimistic, but what I think you need to recheck is the accuracy of the scales you are using. I would bet my next paycheck that your airplane weighs more than 970 lbs. You have an O-360 and I believe a constant speed prop? If this is correct then your RV-8 weighs less than most RV-4's with this engine prop combination. You mentioned in another post that prototypes often weigh more than the finished kit product, which often is true, but not likely in this case. N58RV was built with the exact parts that any kit builder uses. With an O-320 and a constant speed prop. it weighed somewhere around 1080 lbs with a VFR panel and finish paint. It would be great to be able to congratulate you on such a light weight but I would rather have you get an accurate weight and be able to determine an accurate C.G. position, and really know what a safe useful load for the airplane is. BTW ... what did you use for scales? Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 09, 1999
From: Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: RV-8 Aerobatic weight?
Hi, all, For those of you with RV-8's, what is the empty weight your plane and what is the maximum aerobatic weight? Just curious.. Thanks, Dylan Caldwell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: RV-8 Weight( Retraction)
I have recieved numerous e-mails to reweigh the RV-8 because it is too light for what it has in it. My suspicion is you are probably right. We will start the process over in the next few days with new scales and report back to the list. We had used bathroom scales that we calibrated with bags of 60lbs each; the scales appeared to be accurate, and we followed the procedure as outlined in the manual. However I just have a nagging feeling we missed something somewhere and I can't rest until I redo it. So for now consider this a retraction of the before mentioned 970 lb weight of my RV-8, and apologies for any inconvenience (or excitement!) that this caused. Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "true(at)uswest.net
by phnxpop4.phnx.uswest.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 1999 02":47:43.-0000(at)matronics.com
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: 1st company
> did some research on DejaNews... > > Unfortunately, it looks like the JPIdiots have ALREADY been to court on > > this issue (with another instrument manufacturer), and the judge upheld > > their claim! It's hard to beat precedent....> > Ron Wanttaja > > wanttaja(at)halcyon.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruce Knoll <tripod(at)vvm.com> > To: cgalley(at)accessus.net > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 3:17 PM > Subject: 1st company > > >Hi Cy, > >Unfortunately, Matronics is NOT the first company that JPI has attacked . > The first company lost, which probably boosted JPI's courage > Is this true??? If JPI has attacked other companies in the past for alleged trademark infringement, it would behoove us to know who they sued, when, and exactly what the outcomes were. That way the list would have some idea whether to continue the e-mail, fax, and letter campaign full force, or ease off for a few days and give JPI a chance to offer the olive branch to Matt. Can someone out there confirm the reports of previous suits by JPI and what the particulars were? Inquiring minds want to know ..... George True > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatic weight?
Dylan; Aerobatic weight is 1550 on the RV-8, empty normally seems to run between 1000-1100 lbs. This means with 20 gals on board, you are able to carry 330-430 lbs of pilot and passenger and still be in the aerobatic category! Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com writes: > > >Hi, all, > For those of you with RV-8's, what is the empty weight your plane and >what is the maximum aerobatic weight? Just curious.. > Thanks, > Dylan Caldwell > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Weight( Retraction)
Date: Feb 09, 1999
---------- > From: n41va(at)Juno.com > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: RV-8 Weight( Retraction) > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 5:57 PM > > > I have recieved numerous e-mails to reweigh the RV-8 because it is too > light for what it has in it. My suspicion is you are probably right. We > will start the process over in the next few days with new scales and > report back to the list. We had used bathroom scales that we calibrated > with bags of 60lbs each; the scales appeared to be accurate, and we > followed the procedure as outlined in the manual. However I just have a> Von Alexander > N41VA(at)juno.com > > > Von Alexander > N41VA(at)juno.com > Aircraft should be weighed on a set of certified scales. Most aircraft service and repair facilities have them and would probably rent them. Then you will know exactly what it weighs, along with the peice of mind. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. 6A starting to skin fuesalage. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
> > I called the FAA and asked them what is required in order to > have a landing strip on one's private property. The FAA > inspector told me that I didn't have to register it, but > that if I notified the FAA and registered it, they would > make safety recommendations to me, as well as allow it to be > plotted on a sectional. Fine. So, I get this form in the > mail from the FAA today (7480-1). The form begins by > defining "airport" as "Any landing Area such as Airport, > Heliport, Seaplane Base, Ultralight Flightpark, or > Balloonport." Then, it states, in part, that one who > establishes a new airport must notify the administrator by > completing the 7480-1 form and submitting it. The form also > sets out penalties for not following these instructions. > The form in not unreasonably complex, but does require one > to plot the coordinates, length, obstructions, other > airports nearby, etc. You also indicate whether the > "airport" is "personal", "private", or "public". It seems > to me from this form that I DO have to register it. Any > comments? > > > adrian chick > nashville, tn Adrian: I'm in the same process and it varies somewhat by state. It seems the FAA wants to do an airspace impact study on any operational airport, but how would they know if you fly an airplane "from time to time" off a patch of grass? How official do you want to be?? In my case, the state of Virginia will not bless anything not first cleared with local zoning officials, and the FAA won't recognize any fields that the state does not first sanction, but the state won't okay it unless you've filed a form 7480-12 with the Feds, so it's a tad confusing and the hoops must be jumped in only one sequence. To top it all, the state will approve private strips in tight STOL-only locations that would never pass muster for a public- use facility, and so in theory should the FAA, but when they sent back my letter of approval stating no airspace conflicts existed, it contained all sorts of paragraphs that clearly were meant to apply only to public facilities, with regard to widths, clearances, approach slopes, etc. I'm going to let it slide rather than argue with them. There's not a private field anywhere that I've ever visited that meets even of those requirements, yet they are all on the sectional. Whatever... Furthermore, my next door neighbor's strip is 3000 feet away, and he has to call the local MOA controlling facility to see if the military training route that runs right over both our strips is "hot" before flying. For me, they said I had to have a letter of agreement with him regarding traffic patterns at our fileds, but not a single mention of the training route passing overhead! Go figure. In my experience, the paperwork is easy compared to the cost and trouble of grading all that dirt! That's behind me now, but I am facing a 7 thousand dollar estimate to have the local power and telco bury a 440 foot stretch of 7200 volt line and phone cable that stretches across one end of the field. With this 35 foot obstacle in the way, my 2000 foot strip looks tight, even for an RV. *** Anyone on the list have any ideas on how to get the gov't or utility to absorb some of this cost? *** I'm open to any ethical suggestions, and I'm going to request bids from private industrial electrical contractors before I agree to have Virginia Power do the work. Planting grass this spring... Home Sweet Airport by summer. -Bill Boyd RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
I WOULD FIRST CHECK STATE AND LOCAL REGS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO LICENSE IT FIRST TOM WHELAN FARMS AIRPORT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Dear Adrian, I have had my own private airstrip for over 25 years. When I started it 25 years ago, it was suggested to me to register it with the feds and I did so. At the time I did it because I thought I had to. Now , I am glad that I did. It appears that when a airstrip is registered with the Feds, you or it quailifies for legal protection from unfriendly zoning, prevents the power company from creating new obstructions, and other similar benefits. It also guarantees that you will have to fill out an occassional questionare from the government. I have never experienced any harrassment from the feds in over 25 years. When they extablished an ARSA here, it included my airport, however, other than radio communications, no problems or inconveniences were experienced. Good luck. Dick Martin RV8 80124 finishing canopy installation, should fly soon. Note: my airport is in Green Bay, Wis. "Martin Aerodrome W178" ---------- > From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: requirements for landing stip > Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 5:54 PM > > > I called the FAA and asked them what is required in order to > have a landing strip on one's private property. The FAA > inspector told me that I didn't have to register it, but > that if I notified the FAA and registered it, they would > make safety recommendations to me, as well as allow it to be > plotted on a sectional. Fine. So, I get this form in the > mail from the FAA today (7480-1). The form begins by > defining "airport" as "Any landing Area such as Airport, > Heliport, Seaplane Base, Ultralight Flightpark, or > Balloonport." Then, it states, in part, that one who > establishes a new airport must notify the administrator by > completing the 7480-1 form and submitting it. The form also > sets out penalties for not following these instructions. > The form in not unreasonably complex, but does require one > to plot the coordinates, length, obstructions, other > airports nearby, etc. You also indicate whether the > "airport" is "personal", "private", or "public". It seems > to me from this form that I DO have to register it. Any > comments? > > > adrian chick > nashville, tn > rv6a wings on order > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: 1st company
Date: Feb 09, 1999
I think letting up is a bad idea. I sent another letter today. Tell everyone you know, and have them write a letter. It's a fast and easy way to squash this. If the mail tapers off, they will likely just ignore us. I also caution against using "RV-X" builder. If we all say we are building RV's, they may get the idea that it's an isolated group. Just let them know that you are a concerned consumer. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 Page at: http://tabshred.com/moe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatic weight?
In a message dated 2/9/99 9:21:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, macquistan(at)ameritech.net writes: << Hi, all, For those of you with RV-8's, what is the empty weight your plane and what is the maximum aerobatic weight? Just curious.. Thanks, Dylan Caldwell >> Dylan, The empty weight of my RV-8 (N801RV) is 1095 lbs. I have the IO-360-A1B6 engine with a McCauley CS prop. Frank Carter, who is not far from me, has an O-360 and CS prop. His plane weighs 1060 lbs. empty. Regards, Louis Smith Lousmith(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: canopies and solvents and fibreglass and polyester and
vinylester etc Dear list, Motivated by my recent bad experience with my canopy and vinylester resin I have done some research into plastics. These are some of the things I have learned. 1. Plexiglass is a trade name for one version of acrylic plastic. Our canopies are acrylic, whether they are "plexiglass" per se I am not sure. 2. Acrylic plastics are long chain polymers. You can reduce them to short chain polymers and monomers by "cracking" them with heat and a solvent. In this sense "cracking" has the same connotation as "cracking" in a petrochemical refinery. 3. The crack resistance (in a mechanical sense) of acrylics depends on their being long polymers. When you reduce them to short polymers they will then lose their crack stopping properties and allow cracks to propagate from any tiny surface imperfection. 4. Both vinylester and polyester resins may or may not contain solvents that will depolymerize acrylics. The composition of either is quite variable and dependent on the local manufacturer. This explains why some people have got away with both polyester and vinylester resins on occasion. 5. The more aromatic (lighter fraction in general) the solvent the worse it hates plexiglass. If you have to clean plexi it is best to use heavy (non-aromatic) hydrocarbon fractions. The safest are kerosene or mineral turpentine. There is a fraction called X95 which is slightly lighter and still safe. This is the chief component of WD40 and most other penetrating water displacement agents. Anything based around the benzene ring (benzine, toluine etc) is bad, bad, bad. 6. In Australia the manufacturer DOES add a small quantity (less than .5%) of silicone to WD40. In Austalia this means it does not have to be mentioned on the label. I cannot speak to the US formulation. This is bad for paint. 7. High heat of its own is enough to depolymerise acrylics. Thus "flame finishing" gives a lovely look but is a bad idea as it leaves a non crack-resistant edge. 8. Edges should be sanded after cutting in a longitudinal fashion. Any surface imperfections are less likely to propagate cracks. This is the natural tendency when finishing a long edge anyway. Holes can be finished with a cone shaped grinding stone. This again leaves any scratches aligned with the surface rather than at 90 degrees. 9. It is good to work on warm plexiglass. It is bad to make it locally very hot. Van's recommendation of several partial thickness passes with the cutoff wheel is good practice. 10. There will be a tendency for the plexi to "learn" a new shape with the passage of many temperature cycles. This means it is bad to store it under stress because it will slowly deform to the stresses. On the other hand it means if you install the canopy with some local stresses and get away with it (no cracks) the likely hood of cracks will go down with the passage of time. 11. UV will gradually depolymerise the acrylic. Over a long period of time it becomes more brittle. Protecting your canopy from UV is a good idea. I hope the above is helpful to someone, it is garnered from a variety of sources but I think is all correct. I welcome any further input. Cheers, Leo Davies RV6A-working on canopy (again) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Many times the power company is glad to do it to stave off lawsuits of no power and negligence suits from pilots that run into power lines off the ends of a landing strip that didn't know they were there and didn't see them until too late. -----Original Message----- From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 10:59 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: requirements for landing stip > > >> >> I called the FAA and asked them what is required in order to >> have a landing strip on one's private property. The FAA >> inspector told me that I didn't have to register it, but >> that if I notified the FAA and registered it, they would >> make safety recommendations to me, as well as allow it to be >> plotted on a sectional. Fine. So, I get this form in the >> mail from the FAA today (7480-1). The form begins by >> defining "airport" as "Any landing Area such as Airport, >> Heliport, Seaplane Base, Ultralight Flightpark, or >> Balloonport." Then, it states, in part, that one who >> establishes a new airport must notify the administrator by >> completing the 7480-1 form and submitting it. The form also >> sets out penalties for not following these instructions. >> The form in not unreasonably complex, but does require one >> to plot the coordinates, length, obstructions, other >> airports nearby, etc. You also indicate whether the >> "airport" is "personal", "private", or "public". It seems >> to me from this form that I DO have to register it. Any >> comments? >> >> >> adrian chick >> nashville, tn > >Adrian: I'm in the same process and it varies somewhat by state. It seems >the FAA wants to do an airspace impact study on any operational airport, but >how would they know if you fly an airplane "from time to time" off a patch of >grass? How official do you want to be?? > >In my case, the state of Virginia will not bless anything not first cleared >with local zoning officials, and the FAA won't recognize any fields that the >state does not first sanction, but the state won't okay it unless you've filed >a form 7480-12 with the Feds, so it's a tad confusing and the hoops must be >jumped in only one sequence. To top it all, the state will approve private >strips in tight STOL-only locations that would never pass muster for a public- >use facility, and so in theory should the FAA, but when they sent back my >letter of approval stating no airspace conflicts existed, it contained all >sorts of paragraphs that clearly were meant to apply only to public >facilities, with regard to widths, clearances, approach slopes, etc. I'm >going to let it slide rather than argue with them. There's not a private >field anywhere that I've ever visited that meets even of those requirements, >yet they are all on the sectional. Whatever... > >Furthermore, my next door neighbor's strip is 3000 feet away, and he has to >call the local MOA controlling facility to see if the military training route >that runs right over both our strips is "hot" before flying. For me, they >said I had to have a letter of agreement with him regarding traffic patterns >at our fileds, but not a single mention of the training route passing >overhead! Go figure. > >In my experience, the paperwork is easy compared to the cost and trouble of >grading all that dirt! That's behind me now, but I am facing a 7 thousand >dollar estimate to have the local power and telco bury a 440 foot stretch of >7200 volt line and phone cable that stretches across one end of the field. >With this 35 foot obstacle in the way, my 2000 foot strip looks tight, even >for an RV. *** Anyone on the list have any ideas on how to get the gov't or >utility to absorb some of this cost? *** I'm open to any ethical suggestions, >and I'm going to request bids from private industrial electrical contractors >before I agree to have Virginia Power do the work. > >Planting grass this spring... Home Sweet Airport by summer. >-Bill Boyd >RV-6A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
Subject: landing strip
Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not archive http://members.home.net/adrianchick ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Boris <smbr(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
We've got hundreds of little fields here in south Florida, mostly for ag use. The benefit of having it registered is improved future protection regarding development around your property including towers and wires. You may have none otherwise. Adrian Chick wrote: > > > I called the FAA and asked them what is required in order to > have a landing strip on one's private property. The FAA > inspector told me that I didn't have to register it, but > that if I notified the FAA and registered it, they would > make safety recommendations to me, as well as allow it to be > plotted on a sectional. Fine. So, I get this form in the > mail from the FAA today (7480-1). The form begins by > defining "airport" as "Any landing Area such as Airport, > Heliport, Seaplane Base, Ultralight Flightpark, or > Balloonport." Then, it states, in part, that one who > establishes a new airport must notify the administrator by > completing the 7480-1 form and submitting it. The form also > sets out penalties for not following these instructions. > The form in not unreasonably complex, but does require one > to plot the coordinates, length, obstructions, other > airports nearby, etc. You also indicate whether the > "airport" is "personal", "private", or "public". It seems > to me from this form that I DO have to register it. Any > comments? > > adrian chick > nashville, tn > rv6a wings on order > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: J.P. Instrument's legal action against Matronics
Date: Feb 10, 1999
The attached Aircraft Spruce response was received 1 day after my letter to them. Hopefully J.P. Instruments response will be just as timely. ------------------------------- >Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:30:10 -0800 >To: "Charles Rowbotham" >From: spruce(at)deltanet.com (Aircraft Spruce & Specialty) >Subject: Re: J.P. Instrument's legal action against Matronics > >Dear Chuck, >I received your Email regarding a dispute between JPI and Matronics over >Matronics use of the word "Scanner". Please be advised that Aircraft >Spruce has nothing to do with this matter. All we know is that JPI >purchased the rights to the word "scanner" and all forms of the word >sometime back and JPI has simply asked Matronics to not use it. We carry >the products of hundreds of suppliers including JPI and we certainly have >no intention of getting involved in a matter that is not our business. We >do not support either party; thery can work it out on their own! We >appreciate your business and certainly hope that you would not refuse to >deal with Aircraft Spruce over an issue in which we have no involvement. >Regards, >Jim Irwin >President, Aircraft Spruce >______________________________________________________ >>Jim Irwin, CEO >>Aircraft Spruce >> >> >>Dear Mr. Irwin, >> >>As an Aircraft Spruce customer and builder of an RV-8A (emp finished & >>awaiting Quick Build kit) I was very dismayed to learn of J.P. >>Instruments' attempt to use a harassment lawsuit against Matronics (a >>small firm marketing their "FuelScan" instrument). In JPI's legal action >>begun late last week JPI asserts that Matronics use of the product >>description name "Fuel Scan" infringes on their "SCANNER" copyright. JPI >>copyrighted "SCANNER" in 1988 for their temperature indicators - which >>you market. While Matronics has been utilizing "FUELSCAN" prior to JPI >>including fuel scanning in their instrument, they appear to be resorting >>to legal harassment to compete. >> >>News of JPI's action is spreading like "Wild Fire" through out the >>custom/kit building market, with unanimous condemnation. We have more >>than enough harassing lawsuits already, which have had a very negative >>impact on General Aviation. For a complete copy of the JPI's attorneys >>letter please contact Matt Dralle at dralle(at)matronics.com. >> >>Please be aware that I will not purchase any item from JPI or any other >>firm that supports their heavy handed legal harassment (bullying), >>either through direct action or lack of action. Your review of this >>matter and a response is greatly appreciated. >> >>Chuck Rowbotham >>RV-8A in progress >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY CO. >225 Airport Circle >Corona, CA 90270 U.S.A. >Tele: 909-372-9555 >Fax: 909-372-0555 >Order Desk: 800-824-1930 >Customer Service: 800-861-3192 >Email: info@aircraft-spruce.com >WWW: http://www.aircraft-spruce.com >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: landing strip
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Adrian, Looks a little tight, but doable if you really know your plan. I regularly land & takoff on just half of a 1800' strip. You'd be restricted to a one way operation with the tall trees on the end, and there is no room for any kind of equipment problems...... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > -----Original Message----- > From: Adrian Chick [SMTP:adrianchick(at)home.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 7:01 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: landing strip > > > Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at > this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not > archive > > http://members.home.net/adrianchick > > > > > ----- > > ----- > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ----- > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)GEON.COM>
Subject: requirements for landing stip
Date: Feb 10, 1999
I don't like telling the government anything! With the FAA funding issues that have been going around lately, our wonderful federal gov't might decide to start imposing fees (more TAXES) on persons who own airstrips. You have to do what you have to do - but I wouldn't tell them anything! Also consider the liability you might be subject to if your strip shows up on a sectional and some goofball who runs his plane out of gas crash-lands on your strip. I believe your registration issues might be only state & local - there are a lot of grass strips in Texas and I'm sure they aren't all registered. ...just another point of view on the subject. Independent-minded Texan Bryan Jones, 80313 reassembling engine & finishing canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: Electronic Remote Compass
From: b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com>
I have an electromagnetic remote compass system that is for sale. It is a Hamilton VC-200-R as shown on page 295 of the 1997-1998 Aircraft Spruce Catalog. They get $755, I would like to get $250 including a shock mounting bracket and wiring harness. Bruce Green ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: landing strip
Adrian Chick wrote: > Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at > this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not > archive > > http://members.home.net/adrianchick > Adrian - I once asked Van what he considered was the minimum length of a landing strip for the RV type aircraft. He said that he would like to see at least three times the landing/take off distance of the aircraft. This would give you a minimum distance of about 1500 feet. Your 950 feet proposed is probably do able but you are not leaving very much space for the fudge factor. The 'what ifs' just might reach out and grab you when your least expecting it. I would feel more comfortable if you considered somewhere else more suitable so that we both may continue to enjoy each others company on this list. Take care & fly safe. DGM RV-6 Slowly working on the cowling. Southern Alberta - Also plagued with landing fields that are a smidge too short :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
From: b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com>
<<>> Does the form reference any regulations? If so, let me know and I will look them up for you, but the form itself cannot establish any sort of requirement. Bruce Green ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Bruce Knoll <tripod(at)vvm.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Remote Compass
Hi Bruce, Why are you selling??? If it is in perfect working order, I will take it. Bruce Knoll tripod(at)vvm.com >I have an electromagnetic remote compass system that is for sale. It is >a Hamilton VC-200-R as shown on page 295 of the 1997-1998 Aircraft Spruce >Catalog. They get $755, I would like to get $250 including a shock >mounting bracket and wiring harness. > > >Bruce Green > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: John Balbierer <jbalbierer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: landing strip
Went to a Forum at OSH in '97 on landing strips. FAA wants a 20 to 1 ratio for displaced thresholds. In other words, your 75' trees would require a 1500' displaced threshold.(Longer than your strip) & to 1 on the sides on the strip also. John Balbierer RV-6, N30JB ---"Stucklen, Frederic IFC" wrote: > > > Adrian, > > Looks a little tight, but doable if you really know your plan. I > regularly land & takoff on just half of a 1800' strip. You'd be > restricted to a one way operation with the tall trees on the end, and > there is no room for any kind of equipment problems...... > > Fred Stucklen > N925RV RV-6A > E. Windsor, Ct > > > > > > http://members.home.net/adrianchick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: canopies and solvents and fibreglass and polyester a
nd vinylester etc
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Leo, Thanks for the excellent post. Did you find any information about the effect of non petroleum cleaners, such as: ammonia, alcohol, "Fantastic", "Purple Cleaner". Etc.? Ken Harrill RV-6, canopy Dear list, Motivated by my recent bad experience with my canopy and vinylester resin I have done some research into plastics. These are some of the things I have learned. 1. Plexiglass is a trade name for one version of acrylic plastic. Our canopies are acrylic, whether they are "plexiglass" per se I am not sure. 2. Acrylic plastics are long chain polymers. You can reduce them to short chain polymers and monomers by "cracking" them with heat and a solvent. In this sense "cracking" has the same connotation as "cracking" in a petrochemical refinery. 3. The crack resistance (in a mechanical sense) of acrylics depends on their being long polymers. When you reduce them to short polymers they will then lose their crack stopping properties and allow cracks to propagate from any tiny surface imperfection. 4. Both vinylester and polyester resins may or may not contain solvents that will depolymerize acrylics. The composition of either is quite variable and dependent on the local manufacturer. This explains why some people have got away with both polyester and vinylester resins on occasion. 5. The more aromatic (lighter fraction in general) the solvent the worse it hates plexiglass. If you have to clean plexi it is best to use heavy (non-aromatic) hydrocarbon fractions. The safest are kerosene or mineral turpentine. There is a fraction called X95 which is slightly lighter and still safe. This is the chief component of WD40 and most other penetrating water displacement agents. Anything based around the benzene ring (benzine, toluine etc) is bad, bad, bad. 6. In Australia the manufacturer DOES add a small quantity (less than .5%) of silicone to WD40. In Austalia this means it does not have to be mentioned on the label. I cannot speak to the US formulation. This is bad for paint. 7. High heat of its own is enough to depolymerise acrylics. Thus "flame finishing" gives a lovely look but is a bad idea as it leaves a non crack-resistant edge. 8. Edges should be sanded after cutting in a longitudinal fashion. Any surface imperfections are less likely to propagate cracks. This is the natural tendency when finishing a long edge anyway. Holes can be finished with a cone shaped grinding stone. This again leaves any scratches aligned with the surface rather than at 90 degrees. 9. It is good to work on warm plexiglass. It is bad to make it locally very hot. Van's recommendation of several partial thickness passes with the cutoff wheel is good practice. 10. There will be a tendency for the plexi to "learn" a new shape with the passage of many temperature cycles. This means it is bad to store it under stress because it will slowly deform to the stresses. On the other hand it means if you install the canopy with some local stresses and get away with it (no cracks) the likely hood of cracks will go down with the passage of time. 11. UV will gradually depolymerise the acrylic. Over a long period of time it becomes more brittle. Protecting your canopy from UV is a good idea. I hope the above is helpful to someone, it is garnered from a variety of sources but I think is all correct. I welcome any further input. Cheers, Leo Davies RV6A-working on canopy (again) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HillJW(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
I think you are right, we are required to "give notice" of airport establishment. That is what I did for mine, and they put it on the chart, in the data base, etc. It is marked "private". hilljw(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: Electronic Remote Compass
> > >I have an electromagnetic remote compass system that is for sale. It is >a Hamilton VC-200-R as shown on page 295 of the 1997-1998 Aircraft Spruce >Catalog. They get $755, I would like to get $250 including a shock >mounting bracket and wiring harness. Is this a 2 1/4" or 3 1/8" instrument? I looked in the Aircraft Spruce on-line catalog but couldn't find it. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: iems7(at)aadc.com (Mike Smallwood 230-8123 Dept. 6960)
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: RV4 wing wanted
What is Art Chard asking for the RV4 Wings? Regards, Mike Smallwood RV4 Wanna be ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Boalty(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: RV4 rut
New to the list & looking for some input to get me out of my analysis paralysis. 1. Strobe power supply mount: Better to mount fwd so as not to splice wires from wings, or splice and move to baggage? (Using 0-360 & planning on c-speed prop). 2. Using VM1000 & wondering about mounting f. flow transd. Exactly how do you mount it downstream of eng. pump and still get required straight run & proper oreintation? Also wondering about options for locating DPU. 3. Currently setup w/manual elev. trim but considering retro-fit to elec. Anybody done it? and would you again?......... 4. Drilling that first hole in the firewall has me feeling like I'm back to drilling the first hole in the elevator skin. Any input on basic layout or "gotchas" I should watch out for?..... ...Naturally I got a million of em.....but better not push my luck. Thanks in advance for your input. Bruce Hukari, RV-4 in limbo land ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Mailer-Daemon(at)wanadoo.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: disk quota exceeded
Error-To: nobody --199902102018.4706/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Your message adressed to willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr couldn't be delivered, for the following reason : write error to mailbox, disk quota exceeded ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail.local: La BAL a atteint sa saturation, recommencez plus tard mail.local: Mailbox full, please try later --199902102018.4706/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.wanadoo.fr Final-Recipient: rfc822; willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr Action: failed --199902102018.4706/bouleau.wanadoo.fr by smtpi12.wanadoo.fr (8.7.5/[France Telecom Interactive]) with ESMTP id UAA19754 for From: HillJW(at)aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:18:12 EST Subject: Re: RV-List: requirements for landing stip I think you are right, we are required to "give notice" of airport establishment. That is what I did for mine, and they put it on the chart, in the data base, etc. It is marked "private". hilljw(at)aol.com --199902102018.4706/bouleau.wanadoo.fr-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Mailer-Daemon(at)wanadoo.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: disk quota exceeded
Error-To: nobody --199902102027.318/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Your message adressed to willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr couldn't be delivered, for the following reason : write error to mailbox, disk quota exceeded ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail.local: La BAL a atteint sa saturation, recommencez plus tard mail.local: Mailbox full, please try later --199902102027.318/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.wanadoo.fr Final-Recipient: rfc822; willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr Action: failed --199902102027.318/bouleau.wanadoo.fr by smtpi12.wanadoo.fr (8.7.5/[France Telecom Interactive]) with ESMTP id UAA22053 for Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:31:20 -0800 From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Electronic Remote Compass > > >I have an electromagnetic remote compass system that is for sale. It is >a Hamilton VC-200-R as shown on page 295 of the 1997-1998 Aircraft Spruce >Catalog. They get $755, I would like to get $250 including a shock >mounting bracket and wiring harness. Is this a 2 1/4" or 3 1/8" instrument? I looked in the Aircraft Spruce on-line catalog but couldn't find it. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- --199902102027.318/bouleau.wanadoo.fr-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hagerty, Bruce" <BHagerty(at)hbi.com>
Subject: Electronic Remote Compass
Date: Feb 10, 1999
97-98 catalog indicates this to be a 2 1/4" instrument. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Lloyd [SMTP:brian(at)lloyd.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:31 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Electronic Remote Compass > > > > > > > >I have an electromagnetic remote compass system that is for sale. It is > >a Hamilton VC-200-R as shown on page 295 of the 1997-1998 Aircraft Spruce > >Catalog. They get $755, I would like to get $250 including a shock > >mounting bracket and wiring harness. > > Is this a 2 1/4" or 3 1/8" instrument? I looked in the Aircraft Spruce > on-line catalog but couldn't find it. > > > Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies > brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 > http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 > +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- > > > > > - > > - > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Fw: JPI Threats
Date: Feb 10, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: wanttaja(at)nwnexus.com <wanttaja(at)nwnexus.com> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:55 AM Subject: Re: JPI Threats >> You mentioned that JPI had already sued another company for like >> sounding names. Who was it and when? Thanks. > >IIRC, it was RMI, and it probably would have been ten or fewer years >ago. If you'd like more info, talk to Dave Martin at KITPLANES...he was >deposed in the case, and mentioned it to me when I called to tell him >about the Matronics problem. > >Ron Wanttaja >wanttaja(at)halcyon.com >http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Mailer-Daemon(at)wanadoo.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: disk quota exceeded
Error-To: nobody --199902102100.3552/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Your message adressed to willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr couldn't be delivered, for the following reason : write error to mailbox, disk quota exceeded ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail.local: La BAL a atteint sa saturation, recommencez plus tard mail.local: Mailbox full, please try later --199902102100.3552/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.wanadoo.fr Final-Recipient: rfc822; willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr Action: failed --199902102100.3552/bouleau.wanadoo.fr by smtpi12.wanadoo.fr (8.7.5/[France Telecom Interactive]) with ESMTP id VAA00584 for From: iems7(at)aadc.com (Mike Smallwood 230-8123 Dept. 6960) Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:58:12 -0500 Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 wing wanted What is Art Chard asking for the RV4 Wings? Regards, Mike Smallwood RV4 Wanna be --199902102100.3552/bouleau.wanadoo.fr-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Sensenich metal prop on RV-4
I'd like to add to what Marvin Sutter wrote about the difference in climb rate of the O320 and the O360. My choice was affected by all the high altitude rocks and WX in the path of many of my flights. I expect the O360 to climb faster but especially, to climb higher. hal > 0-320 or 0-360 makes very little difference in speed but a significant > difference in climb rate (approx. 500fpm more). I run a Sensenich metal > prop on my RV6 with an 0-360 and get 2200 rpm static and 2750 max rpm in > level flight. You can see complete performance figures on the Sensenich web > site (link of Van's page) as Sensenich did the development testing of the > prop on my airplane. As to the choice of engine a lot depends on your > flying weight. The climb performance of an RV is very sensitive to weight. > If you and your passenger are light, an 0-320 gives brisk performance but if > you put a couple of 200 pounders in the airplane that 0-360 would be nice. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Mailer-Daemon(at)wanadoo.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: disk quota exceeded
Error-To: nobody --199902102112.324/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Your message adressed to willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr couldn't be delivered, for the following reason : write error to mailbox, disk quota exceeded ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail.local: La BAL a atteint sa saturation, recommencez plus tard mail.local: Mailbox full, please try later --199902102112.324/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.wanadoo.fr Final-Recipient: rfc822; willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr Action: failed --199902102112.324/bouleau.wanadoo.fr by smtpi12.wanadoo.fr (8.7.5/[France Telecom Interactive]) with ESMTP id VAA03708 for From: Boalty(at)aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:18:58 EST Subject: RV-List: RV4 rut New to the list & looking for some input to get me out of my analysis paralysis. 1. Strobe power supply mount: Better to mount fwd so as not to splice wires from wings, or splice and move to baggage? (Using 0-360 & planning on c-speed prop). 2. Using VM1000 & wondering about mounting f. flow transd. Exactly how do you mount it downstream of eng. pump and still get required straight run & proper oreintation? Also wondering about options for locating DPU. 3. Currently setup w/manual elev. trim but considering retro-fit to elec. Anybody done it? and would you again?......... 4. Drilling that first hole in the firewall has me feeling like I'm back to drilling the first hole in the elevator skin. Any input on basic layout or "gotchas" I should watch out for?..... ...Naturally I got a million of em.....but better not push my luck. Thanks in advance for your input. Bruce Hukari, RV-4 in limbo land --199902102112.324/bouleau.wanadoo.fr-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Mailer-Daemon(at)wanadoo.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: disk quota exceeded
Error-To: nobody --199902102138.29189/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Your message adressed to willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr couldn't be delivered, for the following reason : write error to mailbox, disk quota exceeded ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail.local: La BAL a atteint sa saturation, recommencez plus tard mail.local: Mailbox full, please try later --199902102138.29189/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.wanadoo.fr Final-Recipient: rfc822; willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr Action: failed --199902102138.29189/bouleau.wanadoo.fr by smtpi12.wanadoo.fr (8.7.5/[France Telecom Interactive]) with ESMTP id VAA10394 for From: "Hagerty, Bruce" <BHagerty(at)hbi.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Electronic Remote Compass Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:39:38 -0600 97-98 catalog indicates this to be a 2 1/4" instrument. > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Lloyd [SMTP:brian(at)lloyd.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:31 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Electronic Remote Compass > > > > > > > >I have an electromagnetic remote compass system that is for sale. It is > >a Hamilton VC-200-R as shown on page 295 of the 1997-1998 Aircraft Spruce > >Catalog. They get $755, I would like to get $250 including a shock > >mounting bracket and wiring harness. > > Is this a 2 1/4" or 3 1/8" instrument? I looked in the Aircraft Spruce > on-line catalog but couldn't find it. > > > Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies > brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 > http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 > +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- > > > > > - > > - > > - > --199902102138.29189/bouleau.wanadoo.fr-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Mailer-Daemon(at)wanadoo.fr (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: disk quota exceeded
Error-To: nobody --199902102149.13299/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Your message adressed to willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr couldn't be delivered, for the following reason : write error to mailbox, disk quota exceeded ----- Transcript of session follows ----- mail.local: La BAL a atteint sa saturation, recommencez plus tard mail.local: Mailbox full, please try later --199902102149.13299/bouleau.wanadoo.fr Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.wanadoo.fr Final-Recipient: rfc822; willy.gruhier(at)wanadoo.fr Action: failed --199902102149.13299/bouleau.wanadoo.fr by smtpi12.wanadoo.fr (8.7.5/[France Telecom Interactive]) with ESMTP id VAA13089 for From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> Subject: RV-List: Fw: JPI Threats Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:49:06 -0600 -----Original Message----- From: wanttaja(at)nwnexus.com <wanttaja(at)nwnexus.com> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 12:55 AM Subject: Re: JPI Threats >> You mentioned that JPI had already sued another company for like >> sounding names. Who was it and when? Thanks. > >IIRC, it was RMI, and it probably would have been ten or fewer years >ago. If you'd like more info, talk to Dave Martin at KITPLANES...he was >deposed in the case, and mentioned it to me when I called to tell him >about the Matronics problem. > >Ron Wanttaja >wanttaja(at)halcyon.com >http://www.halcyon.com/wanttaja/ > --199902102149.13299/bouleau.wanadoo.fr-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Fw: JPI threats
Date: Feb 10, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Tony P <aep(at)flite.net> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 7:46 PM Subject: Re: JPI threats >John Ammeter wrote: > >> I sent the below email to the attorneys and JPI. I also faxed it to >> them. I am mailing a hard copy on Monday to both of them. >> Personally, I vote with my checkbook. And, I don't forget. > > Uh-oh, now you're in trouble. IF they don't assume your name is some >kind of joke, you'll be getting the following letter: > > > Dear Mr. Ammeter: > > It has come to our attention that you are using the term "Ammeter" to >describe yourself. Apparently, you were unaware of JPI's registration >of the brand "Ammeter" TM to describe its electrical-system gauges. > > Your infringement of our client's protected trademark may subject you >to an action for damages and injunction. May I suggest that you cease >and desist forthwith, and commence referring to yourself hereafter as >"John Electricgauge?" If you prefer, you may use a similar-sounding >name with no similar meaning, such as "Anteater" or "Amphitheatre," of >course. > > Yours Truly, > > White, Wine & Fish, Lawyers > > > Tony Pucillo > > > Castigat ridendo mores. > > I speak only for myself unless otherwise stated. One personality is >enough, thank you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Pengilly" <peter(at)pengilly99.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: G III vs HR2
Date: Feb 09, 1999
Gummos, The physics is fine, but, at the end of the day, sustained turn performance is all about excess thrust. The more thrust over drag you have, the more drag you can produce in creating lift - the force that is turning the aeroplane - and, thus, the more turn you can produce without losing speed. If one wing planform or loading produces g more efficiently then great! In this case g's are only used as a measure of lift - pull 2g and you're producing twice as much lift in a level turn. If you can increase thrust your turn rate will increase. To decrease turn radius merely slow down! That's the difficult bit with a small wing. As most builders won't change the size of their wings, an increase in turn performance (increased turn rate or decresed turn radius) is only possible by installing more thrust. Yours, Pete. -----Original Message----- From: Gummos <tg1965(at)linkline.com> Date: 07 February 1999 00:11 Subject: Re: RV-List: G III vs HR2 > >No. >The turn radius is totally dependent on velocity and G's. It is purely >physics. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: "Bill Costello" <bcostello(at)mbsi.net>
Subject: Threatened legal action against Matronics
Dear Sirs: I have become aware of your threatened legal action against Matronics through your attorneys, Price, Guess & Ubell. To say that Matronics' FuelScan is an infringement on your trademark of the term Scanner is ludicrous and totally uncalled for. We do not need any more of this kind of scurrilous litigation in the aviation industry, especially not in the last bastion of sanity in the aviation industry, the homebuilt market. If through some twisted judge or jury you should succeed in your endeavor, you will quite likely put Matronics out of business. This, sirs, will not be taken lightly. As you have heard from many others, Matt Dralle at Matronics provides an invaluable service to thousands of us homebuilders by providing a forum through which we can ask questions about our projects and get valuable answers from literally around the world. If we lose this forum, every time we have a question in our next 3 to 6 years of building we will think of JPI. You see, the problem will NOT go away. By my conservative estimate, there are 10,000 builders who are either on the list or who speak regularly at EAA chapter meetings, for example, with those who are on the list. So if by some twist of the law, you happen to win the battle, I can Now, we all make mistakes. Many of them in my case. The real evil is not in making a mistake. The real evil is in persisting in the mistake. You, sirs, have made a mistake. Please recognize this and stop this course of action immediately. Then, like men and women of honor, we can forgive and forget and, once again, treat JPI like all the rest of our potential vendors. Sincerely, William M. Costello 9635 S Damen Ave Chicago, IL 60643 773-445-1246 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: landing strip
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Adrian: Looks way too short . . . even for a one-way strip. The single-failure options (engine out, engine cough, oil leak, loss of oil pressure, etc.) look really bleak. For those thinking about putting in a runway, I have some experience with ours and also with a friend that just put one in (both in Kansas). Also, Illinois (and Wisconsin, too, I think) puts out a really cool booklet on how to do your own runway. Please contact me off-line for more information. Ron FLY-IN-HOME(at)worldnet.att.net -8 emp -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> Date: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 6:01 AM Subject: RV-List: landing strip > >Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at >this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not >archive > > http://members.home.net/adrianchick > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Electric Elevator Trim Authority 6A
Date: Feb 10, 1999
I have purchased a Gretz electric trim package but am having some problems meeting Van's trim tab specs as I install it. My RV6 instructions section 8, page 8-18, call out 35 degrees of down tab (nose up) and 25 degrees of up tab (nose down). With the cable installed (Gretz' and Van's are identical geometries) I find that it takes a total cable travel of 1.85 inches to achieve 35 deg/20 deg (can't get full 25 due to cable hangup). My question is: How does one achieve the specified trim tab travel with electric trim, either Van's or Gretz'? The Mac 8A servo has a displacement of 1.2 inches, far short of the required 1.85 inches. Furthermore, the displacements are not equal, as it takes 1.25 inches for full down tab and only 0.60 for up tab. I also don't see how the neutral indicator can function when the travel is biased so much off center. I am aware that a smaller radius of gyration on the control horn will give me more tab travel, but I am reluctant to experiment with that until I hear from others with electric trim. Dennis Persyk 6A electric (maybe) trim Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pat <armstrong(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Riveting
Date: Feb 10, 1999
I need some advice. When I built my HS rear spar, I clecoed the stiffeners to the webs, then clamped the webs to the jig to keep them perfectly in line. When I deburred everything, I noticed that five of the outermost holes on the thin web were egg shaped. The amount of oval varied between .010 and .014. Almost half way to the next rivet size. I was thinking about going to the next size rivets, but didn't because there wasn't enough edge distance left and I didn't want to try squeezing 3/16 rivets with my Aircraft Spruce squeezer. (Buy the Tatco, it must be better!). I put the shop head on the side with the oval and squeezed as much as possible. I tried a couple of test pieces and this looked ok when I took it apart. I would recommend to anyone just starting to follow the instructions and don't try to get too accurate as I did. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH THIS? HOW MUCH OUT OF ROUND CAN THE RIVET HOLES BE? SHOULD I PUT IN LARGER RIVETS? George Armstrong RV6-A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Hughes" <okeanos(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: landing strip
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Yep its crazy From: "Adrian Chick" <adrianchick(at)home.com> Subject: RV-List: landing strip Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:01:23 -0600 Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not archive http://members.home.net/adrianchick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Arzflyer(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: [News Flash]
What a sick mind. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
> ---Adrian Chick wrote: > > > > > > I called the FAA and asked them what is required in order to > > have a landing strip on one's private property........ Can't offer too much advice regarding the FAA. However, you may wish to consider any possible consequences on your property tax bill should you have an airport on your property; i.e., put it in and don't tell anybody:) Also have you checked for zoning restrictions? Another runway question for the group....... I have some property in north central Kansas where I would like to establish a runway some time. It is right next to a single lane township gravel road which runs due north and south. The runway could be up to 3,500 feet long. However, it is not flat along that entire distance. There is probably 15, perhaps 20 feet of fall between the north end, and the low spot, which is about two thirds of the way down. If only 1200 feet or so were taken off the north end, there would be 8-10 feet of drop. Winds are predominately from the south, southwest in the summer months, and north, north west during the colder months. It' a gently slope, but is this too much drop? The property is on the east side of the road. There is an REA line on the west side of the road. Any requirements here? martin shorman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Re: landing strip
> > Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at > this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not > archive > http://members.home.net/adrianchick Adrian, I grew up on a farm with an 800 ft grass strip with trees at one end. You came in over some trees, and went through a gap between some other trees at the threshold. My family and friends have been flying Cubs, Champs, etc out of there for over 35 years. Yes, it can be done quite safely if you paid attention to what you were doing, and if the aircraft and weather were cooperative. But, over the years there were at least two incidents that I am aware of. One Cub hit the top of a tree with a wing tip. The aircraft was severely damaged, but luckily no one was injured. Another aircraft had an engine problem and went into the trees - again they were lucky and there was no injury - just a badly mangled aircraft. We finally woke up and cleared out some trees and extended the strip to 1500 ft. This gives many more options and removes the need to cut it too close to the trees. I think what our experience shows is that you can operate out of small strips, but you are tempting fate. If you do it long enough you will get bit. If you don't care about yourself, at least think of your family or the passengers who might be with you. Can you get rid of a bunch of those 75 foot trees and extend the strip in that direction? Good luck, Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work) http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Martin Shorman <kskids(at)netins.net>
Subject: Re: landing strip
...........FAA wants a 20 to 1 > ratio for displaced thresholds. ........ & to 1 > on the sides on the strip also. > How much on the sides? martin shorman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Morrissey, John" <John.Morrissey(at)its.csiro.au>
Subject: landing strip
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Buy a chainsaw!! >-----Original Message----- >From: Steve Hughes [mailto:okeanos(at)email.msn.com] >Sent: Thursday, 11 February 1999 12:33 >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: landing strip > > > > >Yep its crazy > > >From: "Adrian Chick" <adrianchick(at)home.com> >To: >Subject: RV-List: landing strip >Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:01:23 -0600 > > >Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at >this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not >archive > > http://members.home.net/adrianchick > > > > > >------------- > >------------- http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: PLEASE READ - I Need Your Help...
Slime always oozes out - you can't stop it. However, I would begin by calling my lawyer (never go into business without one). Then, seriously consider his advice while remembering that *YOU* are the businessman. My knowledge of the comes from being in business and being (frivously) sued a few times. Computerland, a computer retail store of long ago, once sued a competitor, Businessland, for using the word "land" in their name. Anyone can sue anyone for any reason. For example, you can sue them for the costs you incur fighting their frivolous suit, should one be started. I believe you can register any word as a trademark if it is not already registered. You may have trouble defending it, however, it the word has prior use. I am quite sure the word "scanner" has usage prior to JPI's. Didn't we have police scanners in the '50s? But, I suppose by now hordes of hungry lawyers have called you. Now, to get to work on my letters to JPI, associations, magazines, etc etc. Who did I just read about has made their legal department a profit center - to add to the company's bottom line by filing suit and getting settlements?? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: New 6 Cowling
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Paul Lein <37xjglj(at)cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu>
>Cowling David, Sorry I have been in and out a lot this week. Please phone me at 517 644-2451 (michigan) and we can talk in real time. thanks,Paul "The bassoon is one of my favorite instruments. It has the medieval aroma, like the days when everything used to sound like that. Some people crave baseball . . . I find this unfathomable, but I can easily understand why a person could get excited about playing the bassoon." Frank Zappa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Elevator Push Rod Attachment
help!!! rookie here. how do i post a question??? thanx , bob Eustace Bowhay wrote: > > A little slow on this one, but thought I should post it. It's a shame to > cut any extra holes in these pretty birds if we don't have to and follows > the "keep it light and simple policy". > > This has worked for me: With the inspection hole cut as per the drawings > reach in with your right hand and get the rod end bearing lined up as close > as you can. Then with the bolt held in a flexible mechanical finger ( say > about 12inches long) push the bolt into place with the head end away from > you. By moving the rod end around with your right hand this can be done > easily. > > Leaving the mechanical finger hooked up, with your right hand reach in and > install the washer and nut. Remove the mechanical finger then reach in with > your right hand and put a box end wrench on the nut. While holding it with > right hand with a socket on a rachet with an extension put it on the bolt > and tighten. Your left hand will be outside doing this. Ten minutes should > take care of it, five after a bit of practice. > > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Re: landing strip
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Kevin Horton wrote > > >I grew up on a farm with an 800 ft grass strip with trees at one end. >You came in over some trees, and went through a gap between some >other trees at the threshold. My family and friends have been flying >Cubs, Champs, etc out of there for over 35 years I can vouch for Kevins family strip, I was taught to fly tail draggers by Kevins father in a PA11 on this strip. He didn't tell you all that his father only use to mow about 12 feet wide and the grass on either side was LONG. I had some of my most memorable flying time at Brenton International. Kevin also didn't mention that a 9 or 10 hour old RV6 ended up on its back at Brenton a few years ago, captured by that long grass. Kevin, we'll have to plan a RV flyin at Brenton when you get the 8 in the air. Joe Hine RV4 C-FYTQ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: primer???
i have just ordered my tail kit to the 6. want to hit the ground running when it arrives. i am confused on the type of primers used for corrosion protection. i thought i read sam bucan. that he used auto primer?? i have a new Wicks cat. and on page 318 i c the zinc chormates. however i also see a 11 0z can along with quarts and gals that must be thinned, correct??? anyway i can see that u guys best get used to me i am sure i will have q's for the next... years :) thanx guys, bob paulovich, arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Jon Elford <jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: Re: Riveting
Pat, It doesn't sound like I'd worry about it. The rivet will fill the voids in the hole to a certain extent. I'd just install -4 rivets and forget about it, based on what you described. It won't be the only time something like this happens! Besides, you'll never be able to squeeze -6 rivets with your squeezer (or a Tatco, for that matter). The 3/16" rivets are pretty big and unruly. When you get to your wing spars you'll know what I mean. Hang in there. The learning curve will begin to taper off soon. Jon Elford RV-6 #25201 Skinning wings, Fuel tanks pat wrote: > > I need some advice. When I built my HS rear spar, I clecoed the stiffeners > to the webs, then clamped the webs to the jig to keep them perfectly in > line. When I deburred everything, I noticed that five of the outermost > holes on the thin web were egg shaped. The amount of oval varied between > .010 and .014. Almost half way to the next rivet size. I was thinking > about going to the next size rivets, but didn't because there wasn't enough > edge distance left and I didn't want to try squeezing 3/16 rivets with my > Aircraft Spruce squeezer. (Buy the Tatco, it must be better!). I put the > shop head on the side with the oval and squeezed as much as possible. I > tried a couple of test pieces and this looked ok when I took it apart. I > would recommend to anyone just starting to follow the instructions and > don't try to get too accurate as I did. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE > WITH THIS? HOW MUCH OUT OF ROUND CAN THE RIVET HOLES BE? SHOULD I PUT IN > LARGER RIVETS? > > George Armstrong > RV6-A > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Jon Elford <jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM>
Subject: Re: landing strip
Adrian, The measurements you show are certainly within the performance parameters of the airplane - providing everything works perfect all the time and your approaches are dead-nuts on every time. I guess I'm personally a little more conservative (that's why I'm building an experimental, right?) and would feel much more comfortable with some more room. Good luck.... Jon Elford RV-6 #25201 Skinning wings, Fuel tanks Adrian Chick wrote: > > Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at > this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not > archive > > http://members.home.net/adrianchick > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: n41va(at)Juno.com
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: New RV-8 weight
Well we finally got our act together and re-weighed N41VA, and with some experienced help and accurate scales this time came out with a more believable but still light 1048 pounds. However I am still happy with this figure. Here are a couple of things I did that I think could help make it lighter. 1. Use all the weight saving ideas mentioned in the manual. 2. Use the ground adjustable rudder pedals. These are considerably lighter. 3. Use absolute minimum instruments; this is where a lot of weight can count up fast, and is probably where the most weight can be saved. I used the AV-8 engine monitor, which is quite light by itself, and replaces several instruments. Basic VFR, GPS. No primer; 30 degrees today; engine started on second blade with two pumps of the throttle. 4. Use absolute minimum primer and paint; use a primer in nearly the same color as your finish coat. I used white primer, and my main body color is off-white. 5. Use a minimum trim color; Using the large trim stripes on the full length of the wings top and bottom adds weight, unless you are good enough to butt the colors (not for beginners like me)Keep your trim design simple. 6. Use the absolute minimum of 'bondo'. I have seen some builders apply this stuff in large quantities; it is heavy. Try to avoid it entirely if possible. Just my opinion, for what it is worth. Von Alexander N41VA(at)juno.com (awaiting inspection) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: RV4 rut
In a message dated 2/10/99 11:42:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, Boalty(at)aol.com writes: << New to the list & looking for some input to get me out of my analysis paralysis. 1. Strobe power supply mount: Better to mount fwd so as not to splice wires from wings, or splice and move to baggage? (Using 0-360 & planning on c-speed prop>> Use two single p/s and mount to outboard rib or spar. Less big wire (and less high voltage wire) to run. you mount it downstream of eng. pump and still get required straight run & proper oreintation? Also wondering about options for locating DPU.>> Mounted on firewall and hose comes from mech fuel pump to xducer to carb. I used 45 fittings (not straight) and it works fine. DPU is on sub panel. << 3. Currently setup w/manual elev. trim but considering retrofit to elec. Anybody done it?>> Elec is the way to go IMO. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 10, 1999
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: landing strip
Adrian Chick wrote: > > > Guys, if you have time, I'd appreciate you taking a look at > this and telling me what you think. Is it crazy? do not > archive > Adrian going by your sketch just one word. DON'T. I flew for years out of a private strip on my dads place it was 1000' long and had a flat open approach and power lines on the other end. It had to be done just right each time and if there was any wind it could get very uncomfortable. And looking at your sketch it looks like you go over trees, worst possible conditions. With over 1000 hours in RVs I am pretty comfortable with them but I would not want to do it. Well maybe this turned out to be more than one word:) -- Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVHI(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 10, 1999
Subject: Re: primer???
For your tail kit, an excellent primer in a spray can is "Marhyde". It is a light grey in color & dries fast. This can be purchased at various auto paint supply stores. Look thru the archives----- there is lot's of information concerning primers. I use a two part epoxy for most large pieces, or where a lot of priming is involved, such as skins, ribs & bulkheads. The Marhyde is used everytime that I don't want to bother with the spray outfit. As I remember, my whole tail section is primed with just Marhyde. Also pick up some grey scotch brite pads from the auto paint supply to lightly buff the parts before priming. When you start to prime large amounts, acid etching is the quick way to go. L.Adamson ----- RV6A fusalage right side up ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: External Solenoid Jumper
There is an article by Bill Benedict in the latest RVater about using an external jumper on the starter solenoid to prevent starter motoring. Does anyone have any idea what the approximate current draw is on a permanent magnet solenoid so I can figure out what size wire/CB is required. Just for the heck of it I tested a # 18 wire for about 10 sec and it got a little warm. Thanks Dave Beizer Moreno Valley Ca 6A inst panel/wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting
Pat, Sounds like you didn't have the channel holes aligned with the spar holes. A tip (too late now I guess) is to use a drill bit (the end that fits into the drill) as an alignment tool. If you use this to align a hole on either side of the one you're drilling, you'll get good results. I think I started by drilling the ends, then the middle , and then worked my way in, using the drill bit to make sure the holes were aligned. I would say that "I wouldn't worry about it", but I can't honestly say that. Oval holes are not good. Listen, if you feel like you should do it over, then do it. I built my HS skeleton over because of small mistakes which I was uncomfortable with. You can buy the pieces individually. The channels are expensive, but the rear spars are cheap. I'm happy to offer any suggestions. I'm not a pro by any means, but I did just finish my emp, so it's fairly fresh in my mind. Good luck, and don't hesitate to email me. adrian chick nashville, tn rv6a wings on order ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
Subject: landing strip
Thanks to all for the honest answers about the landing strip. I'm going to scrap that idea and try and stick around to enjoy the scenery. Adrian Chick Nashville, TN rv6a wing on order ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: John Balbierer <jbalbierer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: landing strip
Sorry- 20 to 1 on ends, 7 to 1 on sides. ---Martin Shorman wrote: > > > ...........FAA wants a 20 to 1 > > ratio for displaced thresholds. ........ & to 1 > > on the sides on the strip also. > > > > > How much on the sides? > > martin shorman > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Christensen, Peter" <pchristensen(at)sel.com>
Subject: primer???
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Bob, I'm sure you'll get lots of people telling you to check the archives, but if you type in "primer" in the search engine, prepare to spend a day going through all the notes. So here's my answer: I used Aircraft Spruce & Specialty's zinc chromate spray can for the empennage kit because the pieces are small and you can quickly touch up scratches from riveting, etc. Plan to use about four cans if you want a complete cover for all internal surfaces (I have been concerned, by the way, about the weight of this, but I figure it's worth it. Think about it though). I prepare aluminum pieces by washing with white vinegar, and I scotchbrite steel pieces to bare metal. Be sure to use a respirator with this stuff (get one for about $30 at Home Depot). I haven't quite figured out what to do about large surfaces, since priming them with a spray can may not be very efficient. Good luck and welcome to the club. Peter Christensen RV-6A, finishing empennage, waiting on $ for the wing Pittsburgh, PA > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Paulovich [SMTP:jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 9:38 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: primer??? > > > i have just ordered my tail kit to the 6. want to hit the ground > running when it arrives. i am confused on the type of primers used for > corrosion protection. i thought i read sam bucan. that he used auto > primer?? i have a new Wicks cat. and on page 318 i c the zinc chormates. > however i also see a 11 0z can along with quarts and gals that must be > thinned, correct??? anyway i can see that u guys best get used to me i > am sure i will have q's for the next... years :) thanx guys, bob > paulovich, arkansas > > > > > - > > - > > - > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Subject: External Solenoid Jumper
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Dave, After looking at the provided schematic in the RVator, the only current that the wire has to carry is that of the solenoid on the starter. The #18 AWG wire should be OK for that. You should also have a diode on the intermittent duty starter solenoid (cathode end of diode, the end with the white ring...) terminal to ground, which is NOT shown on Van's schematic. This diode must be sized to handle the flyback current of the two solenoid coils that are in parallel. Failure to have the diode installed will result in a premature failure of the key switch. Another concern I have is the current in the key switch. It now must conduct the current of two solenoids instead of one. I think I'd like to measure this total current and make sure it matches the current rating of the key switch..... Fred Stucklen N925RV RV-6A E. Windsor, Ct > -----Original Message----- > From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com [SMTP:PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 12:25 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: External Solenoid Jumper > > > There is an article by Bill Benedict in the latest RVater about > using an > external jumper on the starter solenoid to prevent starter motoring. > Does > anyone have any idea what the approximate current draw is on a > permanent > magnet solenoid so I can figure out what size wire/CB is required. > Just for > the heck of it I tested a # 18 wire for about 10 sec and it got a > little warm. > Thanks > > Dave Beizer > Moreno Valley Ca > 6A inst panel/wiring > > > > ----- > > ----- > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ----- > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jones, Bryan D. (LPT)" <JonesB(at)GEON.COM>
Subject: New RV-8 weight
Date: Feb 11, 1999
...noticed something in this posting that almost bit me a few weeks ago and thought I'd pass the experience on for everyone. Using that accelerator pump is a tempting way to prime an engine, but my dad & I had a sure-enough fire in a rental 152 after pumping the throttle. I had never been that concerned about pumping the throttle a couple of times, but seeing the flames coming out from under the plane will change this perception. I heard the backfire, looked outside and there were the flames. We followed the fire on start-up procedure and kept cranking and ran the engine for a minute or so and no damage resulted. If you have to use the accelerator pump, I guess do it when the engine is cranking. I'm sure there will be those who will say, "that's what happens when you pump the throttle, stupid" but I thought I'd pass the story on anyway. Bryan Jones, 80313 assembling engine & finishing canopy >>>> today; engine started on second blade with two pumps of the throttle. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Kevin Horton <khorton(at)cyberus.ca>
Subject: Builders in Tel Aviv?
RV Listers, I am going on an short notice business trip to Tel Aviv, Israel. Are there any RV builders in the area? I will arrive Friday February 12 and should leave on Saturday February 20th. I am not sure how much free time I will have, or whether I will have a car or not. It might take me a day or two to sort out internet access after I arrive. I will not be able to monitor the RV-List, or my personal e-mail account. Please respond to my work e-mail: hortonk(at)tc.gc.ca Take care, Kevin Horton RV-8 (fuel tanks) khorton(at)cyberus.ca (613) 821-7862 (home) Ottawa, Canada (613) 952-4319 (work) http://www.cyberus.ca/~khorton/rv8.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: Re: External Solenoid Jumper
In a message dated 2/11/99 12:46:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com writes: > There is an article by Bill Benedict in the latest RVater about using an > external jumper on the starter solenoid to prevent starter motoring. Does > anyone have any idea what the approximate current draw is on a permanent > magnet solenoid so I can figure out what size wire/CB is required. Just > for > the heck of it I tested a # 18 wire for about 10 sec and it got a little > warm. > Thanks > > Dave Beizer > Moreno Valley Ca > 6A inst panel/wiring If you have access to an ammeter, you can put it in series with the solenoid, and measure the exact amount of current the solenoid itself draws. Then use this figure to size the wire. One other thing about this topic, I bought a new Sky-Tec starter from Van's. It's the LM model, which doesn't have the permanent magnets. My starter does the same thing, after disengaging the starter switch, it remains engaged for a few seconds. At first I thought that there was some sort of interference between the ring and pinion gear on the starter. It doesn't bother me enough to go and rewire the start circuit, but the "motoring" phenomenon is not limited to just the permanent magnet "PM" models. Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV Broken Arrow, Ok MLaboyteau(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Dylan Caldwell <macquistan(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: Aerobatic Rockets & Airplane Weights?
Hello, Some questions for Harmon Rocket flyers...How much do your planes weigh empty and what is the maximum aerobatic weight? If you fly aerobatics, do you fly solo or do you have enough useful load to take a passenger? For everyone in general, what are the most effective, yet safe ways to minimize a planes weight (other than putting the pilot on a diet)? Thanks much, Dylan Caldwell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: steve.nichols(at)stoneweb.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: primer???
Bob, Remember that the aluminum parts on RV's are CLAD aluminum. These parts will outlast the builder in most cases. I asked these same questions when I was researching information. The majority of builders,that I talked to, feel that priming is not really necessary, but can't make themselves not prime. I am working on the empenage of a 4 and I used auto primer on everything. I will use Marhyde on everything from now on. Check the archives and type in "MARHYDE" in the search engine, it will narrow down the results. Hope this helps, Steve Nichols (RV-4 V.S.) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill & Kathy Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net>
Subject: Re: External Solenoid Jumper
Date: Feb 11, 1999
FWIW - There's a two-part answer to how much current any solenoid coil draws. When first energized, there's an "in-rush" current that is a pretty big number, but only lasts until the solenoid has moved it's full stroke. The current then decays to a "latched" or "holding" value (probably on the order of 1/4 of inrush or less). If you put an ammeter (sorry, George!) in the solenoid wire, you'll probably only be able to read the latched current I read Bill B.'s article, too, and think it's a good enough suggestion to incorporate in our -6A(Q). My own bet for our starter solenoids is that while 18 ga will get the job done, if there are any weaknesses in the system (low battery, dirt/wear on the starter drive shaft, etc.) you might have trouble getting the starter fully engaged. I'm thinking more like 14 ga, or possibly even 12 ga. At that point, there's really no reason to try to keep the circuit breaker size down to protect this wire - I'll use a 15A or so (again a judgement call at this time - no analysis). The inrush current is typically for a short enough time to not trip a breaker - the latching or holding current would be the key for that situation... Bill & Kathy Peck - -6A(Q) fuse & wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: lm4(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: landing strip
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Adrian, I've just looked at your proposal and have these comments. As the wind comes down the runway, toward your landing airplane, it will hit those trees. When it hits the trees it will be deflected upwards. When it turns upwards it will go to a lower pressure ( less lift ) and be at a distinctly different angle of attack to your approaching wings. This has the effect of greatly changing your wing's angle of attack just as you clear the trees. If you are anywhere near stall speed, you will stall and descend into the ground at about a 30 deg. angle, at airspeed and out of control. If you keep your speed up you will probably plunge off the end of the runway. be careful now and good luck. Larry ( been there, seen that ) Mac Donald lm4(at)juno.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Keith Marsland <kmarsland(at)permond.com>
Subject: Floorskins
Date: Feb 11, 1999
If you put in nutplates ribs what size rivet should you use on the forward skins where the screws go through the bulkhead just aft of the wing spar? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Lattimer" <billla(at)warbird.org>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: J.P. Instrument's legal action against Matronics
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Why the heck would we be notifying suppliers about this? AS&S's letter was exactly the response I would have given in a similar circumstance - it's really none of their affair. IMHO, letters to suppliers regarding this are useless at best - sorry if that's a bit harsh. Sounds like JP got themselves a new lawyer to generation some litigation revenue. I wish them the BEST of luck pursuing a tm on all the uses of 'scanner' in the electronic, medical, engineering, etc. trades. IMHO, get some quick legal advice. My gut tells me that they will try a cease and desist, and then probably drop it. They're going to try and enforce this against someone like Radio Shack or Hewlett-Packard and get toasted...you just need to keep them at bay long enough for this to happen. An approach would be to try to join a class-action with one of these big guns that have a stake in the term 'scanner'. Now THAT'S a productive letter! My opinions do not constitute legal advice, just my own irritability at "nuisance" suites :) Bill Lattimer RV-8 N558RV (Reserved) Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Lattimer" <billla(at)warbird.org>
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: JPI threats
Date: Feb 11, 1999
> Dear Mr. Ammeter: >[SNIP] > ROTF, LMAO > White, Wine & Fish, Lawyers > Hey, didn't these guys cater that dinner President Bush was at in Japan? Bill Lattimer RV-8 N558RV (Reserved) Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-8 power
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Hi all, Recently, a fellow asked about performance with a 150 hp engine, but I didn't see any responses to the list. Are there any RV-8s flying with O-320 engines now? Has anyone heard any real-world performance figures? Does anyone have contact info for someone with a flying RV-8/O-320? I've always wanted to install a rotary engine, but I don't think I have the patience to delay flying long enough to develop the engine. Therefore, installing a relatively cheap used O-320 might be just the ticket for me. That would allow me to fly soon, then take as long as I need to develop my rotary engine package. Since there's the very real possibility that I'd never get around to installing the rotary engine, I want to make sure that performance with the O-320 is acceptable to me. Thanks, Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-80587 (finishing up wings) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
<< Many times the power company is glad to do it to stave off lawsuits of no power and negligence suits from pilots that run into power lines off the ends of a landing strip that didn't know they were there and didn't see them until too late. >> How I wish this were true of my power co. They are only too happy to consider doing the work, if they should choose to do so at their good pleasure, for a paltry 7500 bucks, estimated... more if they hit unexpected rocks while digging the trench. -Bill Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: Re: landing strip
<< FAA wants a 20 to 1 ratio for displaced thresholds. In other words, your 75' trees would require a 1500' displaced threshold.(Longer than your strip) & to 1 on the sides on the strip also. >> They can "want" all they want... in a private strip you get to decide what is doable. I don't think they can hold you to any particular parameters as long as the strip will be for you and invited guests only. But, Adrian, after viewing your sketch, I'd say the field is one way only, and a tailwind takeoff or landing could get you badly hurt. Not to mention that your first go-around from the flare, or a bad bounce, would likely be your last. These are great planes, but they ain't Maules. Keep looking, or cut some timber. -Bill Boyd ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Blake Harral <bharral(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV4 rut
Boalty(at)aol.com wrote: > 4. Drilling that first hole in the firewall has me feeling like I'm back to > drilling the first hole in the elevator skin. Any input on basic layout or > "gotchas" I should watch out for?..... > Bruce, I have an RV-4 with IO-360 and VM1000 that I am in the process of finishing. I mounted the VM1000 DPU on the right foward side skin about 4 inches behind the firewall and two inches below the upper longerons. The positioning is somewhat critical to ensure that the DPU or wiring does not interfere with your legs or the rudder pedal. Worked out OK for me. I made some brackets for the VM1000, which I flush riveted to the skin. I put nutplates on the brackets to attach the VM1000. Since my display unit is mounted on the right side of the panel, so this makes for short wiring runs from the display to the DPU and the DPU through the firewall. It is also very easy to work on in this position. My recommendations for your firewall: 1) Minimize holes in firewall for a bunch of good reasons. I have used a variety of drilling techniques for the stainless steel, but have not had outstanding success with any of them. Be sure to use some wood or other material to 'back up' holes that you drill. You will probably need some band-aids too! 2) Route control cables first (throttle, mixture etc), using most direct routes to ensure smooth, reliable operation. (don't route too close to exhaust). I used Cablecraft cables which are heavy duty and operate quite smoothly. However, they are not as flexible as a bowden cable. My prop governer cable needed to go through the firewall at quite an angle, so I used one of those pricey 'eyeball' feedthroughs, and it works well for this application. 3) Route hoses and ducting next. 4) Route electrical wires last, as they are the smallest and most flexible, and there is little penalty associated whatever bends and runs may be required, as you are now running out of space. The great majority of my electrical wiring to the engine compartment runs through two holes, just above the left and right upper engine mount bolts. I do have a separate hole near the center of the firewall for the starter and alternator wires. I tried to leave as much open space on the firewall as possible, since I may want to mount more stuff at a later date. If you have an oil filter, make sure that your routing of cables, hoses, and wires allows it to be removed/replaced without total disassembly of your aircraft! Regards, Blake Harral ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Lattimer" <billla(at)warbird.org>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatic weight?
Date: Feb 11, 1999
> Dylan, > The empty weight of my RV-8 (N801RV) is 1095 lbs. I have the IO-360-A1B6 > engine with a McCauley CS prop. Frank Carter, who is not far from me, has an > O-360 and CS prop. His plane weighs 1060 lbs. empty. > Can you provide a little more information on the equipment in these aircraft? I'm trying to determine just what I can get away with to stay UNDER 1100 lbs with either a -320 or -360 CS. Bill Lattimer RV-8 N558RV (Reserved) Empennage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: External Solenoid Jumper
>You should also have a >diode on the intermittent duty starter solenoid (cathode end of diode, >the end with the white ring...) terminal to ground, which is NOT shown >on Van's schematic. This diode must be sized to handle the flyback >current of the two solenoid coils that are in parallel. Failure to have >the diode installed will result in a premature failure of the key >switch. Actually, you have the polarity of the diode backwards. You need to have the anode, i.e. the end without the white band, toward ground. Oriented the way you specify, the diode will conduct all the time and will function more as a wire in this case. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Jeremy Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft cemeteries
There's also a "small" aircraft graveyard in Mojave, California. Last January a friend and I decided to drive from Portland down to Mojave to take a peek (why not fly down? in Oregon? in winter? ha!). There's no museum, but the airport lobby had the history of the place laid out. For a small bribe, the airport guy took us on an hour or so driving tour of the facilities. It's an active aircraft destruction facility with lots of commercial aircraft in varying stages of disassembly or temporary stoage (exa. several Delta L1011 arrived the day before after being retired, but prior to sale). Also many 727, DC-9, Convair, 747, and such. This is also the home to the backwards-flying plastic aircraft people, and other operations (GE engine testbed, for example). ~Jeremy jwb(at)europa.com > >I don't know if this is the right term for these places where they store >thousands of old surplus military aircrafts. I am planning to fly down and >visit one or more of these in late May. I understand there is one close to >Tucson, AZ. Is there a web site where I can get more information? any other >useful hints, places will be appreciated. Places that have an airstrip at a >walking distance will be preferred. > >Thanks, >Moshe Lichtman >Seattle, WA >N262GR, RV-6A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Subject: Re: External Solenoid Jumper
>There's a two-part answer to how much current any solenoid coil draws. When >first energized, there's an "in-rush" current that is a pretty big number, >but only lasts until the solenoid has moved it's full stroke. The current >then decays to a "latched" or "holding" value (probably on the order of 1/4 >of inrush or less). If you put an ammeter (sorry, George!) in the solenoid >wire, you'll probably only be able to read the latched current Actually, this too is backward. Relay and solenoid coils are coils or inductors. They start out with the current low and build up to a final current that is a function of the DC resistance of the wire in the coil/solenoid. Capacitors have a high inrush current that drops off as the capacitor charges up. I think what you are referring to is the pull-in current versus the holding current. It takes more current in the coil/solenoid to cause the relay/contactor to pull in than it does to keep it closed after it has pulled in. The reason is that it takes a stronger magnetic field to get it to close when the armature is open/far away than it does when the armature is close/close to the coil's pole piece(es). >I read Bill B.'s article, too, and think it's a good enough suggestion to >incorporate in our -6A(Q). My own bet for our starter solenoids is that >while 18 ga will get the job done, if there are any weaknesses in the system >(low battery, dirt/wear on the starter drive shaft, etc.) you might have >trouble getting the starter fully engaged. I'm thinking more like 14 ga, or >possibly even 12 ga. At that point, there's really no reason to try to keep >the circuit breaker size down to protect this wire - I'll use a 15A or so >(again a judgement call at this time - no analysis). The inrush current is >typically for a short enough time to not trip a breaker - the latching or >holding current would be the key for that situation... Just measure the steady state current of the starter contactor coil when engaged. It should be about 6-7 amps. Since you don't keep it engaged all that long (you shouldn't) you don't really need to worry about wire guage all that much since it is an intermittant load. 22awg is probably too small but 18awg is probably ample. Sure it will get a little warm but you are only going to have it activated for 30 seconds at the absolute max. Heck, if the engine doesn't catch in about 5 seconds you need to figure out why. Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1 http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682 +1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lousmith(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-8 Aerobatic weight?
In a message dated 2/11/99 1:56:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, billla(at)warbird.org writes: << > Dylan, > The empty weight of my RV-8 (N801RV) is 1095 lbs. I have the IO-360-A1B6 > engine with a McCauley CS prop. Frank Carter, who is not far from me, has an > O-360 and CS prop. His plane weighs 1060 lbs. empty. > Can you provide a little more information on the equipment in these aircraft? I'm trying to determine just what I can get away with to stay UNDER 1100 lbs with either a -320 or -360 CS. Bill Lattimer RV-8 N558RV (Reserved) Empennage >> Bill, I think Franks RV-8 is VFR equipped. I could be wrong though. Mine is equipped with leather seats, battery aft of the rear baggage compartment, full gyro panel, analogue gauges, King Ky97 com, King KT76A transp., Garmin 195 GPS in panel, elect. trim, and flaps, dual Duckworks Landing Lights, Piper heated pitot, inverted fuel, lightweight starter and alternator, Aeroflash strobe/position/nav lights. I don't think you will have any problem staying under 1100 lbs with either the 0-320 or 0-360 with CS. Louis Smith RV8 N801RV #80126 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 power
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Russell, The production prototype taildragger RV-8 flew with an O-320/CS. Ken Scott (I think it was) said he thought that combination provided the nicest feel in an RV. I don't think I would worry about the performance of any RV with any of the recommended engines. With that said, I should note that I am a power junkie myself ; ) Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 with highly modified, fuel-injected, flow-matched and polished, tuned cold-air ram induction, 200hp O-360/CS/inverted system > >Recently, a fellow asked about performance with a 150 hp engine, but I >didn't see any responses to the list. Are there any RV-8s flying with >O-320 engines now? Has anyone heard any real-world performance figures? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dana drake" <drake(at)startelegram.com>
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Please add my name and e-mail address to your mailing address. Thank You. dana drake, drake(at)startelegram.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: External Solenoid Jumper
> There is an article by Bill Benedict in the latest RVater about using an >external jumper on the starter solenoid to prevent starter motoring. Does >anyone have any idea what the approximate current draw is on a permanent >magnet solenoid so I can figure out what size wire/CB is required. Just for >the heck of it I tested a # 18 wire for about 10 sec and it got a little warm. >Thanks Could someone send me a fax of this article? Contact me direct by email before sending the fax so that a dozen folks send it in the blind and "kill another tree". Thanks! Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . > < When deprived of facts, > < our fantasies are generally > < much worse than reality. > ================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: Re: florida rv fliers needed
dear listers, Mike Seager ( Van's cheif Instructor ) asked me if i was interested in sponsoring him comming to tampa florida, to give instruction and rides, I need to schedule at least 10 people who is interested. At this time i don't know times and dates yet. what i need is names and e-mail address and phone numbers of interested floridians that wants their name thrown in the hat. i'll work out the details with mike and respond only to those who are interested. thanks scott winging it in tampa ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com>
Subject: Primer pump
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Just finished the fuel line plumbing and am using an in line fuel filter from airflow performance (before the fuel pump). I have elected not to use a gascolator. (The problem) I have a 3/8" through firewall fitting(no pipe thread) with which to continue my fuel line but no gascolator to run my 1/8" fuel primer line off of. Did I paint myself into a corner? Thanks ahead RV6A /finsih kit/just treading water panejoe(at)flnet.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Boris <smbr(at)digital.net>
Subject: Re: primer???
This stuff has been discussed in detail in past, BUT, unprotected aluminum (even alclad) won't last through a season down here in Florida due to the weather and salt in the air. Depending on your homebase or where you're planning on flying, it might not be a bad idea to prime. > Bob, > Remember that the aluminum parts on RV's are CLAD aluminum. These parts will outlast the builder in most cases. I asked these same questions when I was researching information. The majority of builders,that I talked to, feel that priming is not really necessary, but can't make themselves not prime. > I am working on the empenage of a 4 and I used auto primer on > everything. I will use Marhyde on everything from now on. > Check the archives and type in "MARHYDE" in the search engine, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Dig the trench, Lay the cable. Then call the power company to attach it. Explain that Their refusal might cost them a lot of money when the first airplane hits their power line. Especially if the lines are already in, buried, but not hooked up because of their refusal. Do not offer to pay for the hook up. My power company will come out and disconnect the power to my house FREE if I am cutting a tree that might fall on the line. They come back after the tree is down and re-connect, FREE. They don't want me messing with the line into my house even if it is only 220 VAC. Good Luck. -----Original Message----- From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 12:41 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: requirements for landing stip > > ><< Many times the power company is glad to do it to stave off lawsuits of no > power and negligence suits from pilots that run into power lines off the > ends of a landing strip that didn't know they were there and didn't see them > until too late. >> > >How I wish this were true of my power co. They are only too happy to consider >doing the work, if they should choose to do so at their good pleasure, for a >paltry 7500 bucks, estimated... more if they hit unexpected rocks while >digging the trench. > >-Bill Boyd > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Primer pump
(The problem) I have a 3/8" through firewall fitting(no pipe >thread) with which to continue my fuel line but no gascolator to run my >1/8" fuel primer line off of. Did I paint myself into a corner? Thanks >ahead > >RV6A /finsih kit/just treading water >panejoe(at)flnet.com Joe, Why not "tee" the fuel line on the high pressure side of the boost pump and use one of the electric primer solenoids recently discussed on the list? Keep all the primer line on the engine side of the firewall and activate it with a switch on the panel while the boost pump is running. Mike Wills RV-4 fuse out of the jig willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Doug Gray <doug.gray(at)hlos.com.au>
Subject: Re: Electric Elevator Trim Authority 6A
Van's electric trim option makes use of a shorter trim tab horn, plus the push rod attach is a little aft of the trim tab hinge. The exact dimensions are not clear due to the drawing scale. If you already have a pre-punched Trim Tab then a retrofit of Vans electric trim tab horn E-617EEPP and E-618EEPP would not be difficult. An older design elevator (different trim cable location) may require a discussion with Vans to get the correct dimension for the push rod attach hole in your existing horn. Doug Gray > > I have purchased a Gretz electric trim package but am having some problems > meeting Van's trim tab specs as I install it. My RV6 instructions section > 8, page 8-18, call out 35 degrees of down tab (nose up) and 25 degrees of up > tab (nose down). With the cable installed (Gretz' and Van's are identical > geometries) I find that it takes a total cable travel of 1.85 inches to > achieve 35 deg/20 deg (can't get full 25 due to cable hangup). > > My question is: How does one achieve the specified trim tab travel with > electric trim, either Van's or Gretz'? The Mac 8A servo has a displacement > of 1.2 inches, far short of the required 1.85 inches. Furthermore, the > displacements are not equal, as it takes 1.25 inches for full down tab and > only 0.60 for up tab. I also don't see how the neutral indicator can > function when the travel is biased so much off center. > > I am aware that a smaller radius of gyration on the control horn will give > me more tab travel, but I am reluctant to experiment with that until I hear > from others with electric trim. > > Dennis Persyk 6A electric (maybe) trim > Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Riveting
pat wrote: > > > I need some advice. When I built my HS rear spar, I clecoed the stiffeners > to the webs, then clamped the webs to the jig to keep them perfectly in > line. When I deburred everything, I noticed that five of the outermost > holes on the thin web were egg shaped. The amount of oval varied between > .010 and .014. Almost half way to the next rivet size. I was thinking > about going to the next size rivets, but didn't because there wasn't enough > edge distance left and I didn't want to try squeezing 3/16 rivets with my > Aircraft Spruce squeezer. (Buy the Tatco, it must be better!). I put the > shop head on the side with the oval and squeezed as much as possible. I > tried a couple of test pieces and this looked ok when I took it apart. I > would recommend to anyone just starting to follow the instructions and > don't try to get too accurate as I did. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE > WITH THIS? HOW MUCH OUT OF ROUND CAN THE RIVET HOLES BE? SHOULD I PUT IN > LARGER RIVETS? > > George Armstrong > RV6-A > George, Don't know if this will help, but this is what I do if the rivet hole gets a little over-sized. I take a rivet that is the next size longer than required and put it the hand-squeezer and gently squeeze it until it is the right length. The rivet will swell in diameter. Now you have a fatter rivet the right length. Put it in the hole and finish squeezing it. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: primer???
Bob, I see you've received the adivce to search the archives. The amount of primer info in the archives is probably enough to fill the back end of a pickup. Some of the old timers on the list used to roll their eyes and sigh whenever the primer thread arose, again. But, since there don't seem to be many old timers around the list anymore and the archive search for primers takes a lot of time, we need to get a frew more threads started and it seems there are a lot of new listers on board, I thought I'd post a few thoughts on the subject. I primed the whole interior of my RV6 with DuPont Variprime, an acid etching chromate primer. I felt, at the time, this was the best thing that could be done and that, for resale value for those who live near corrosive atmospheres, it was a good idea. If I had it to do over again (opps, I guess I do---I'm helping a friend with a 6A) I'd just prime the areas of contact, i.e. wing skin to ribs. I would also touch up any scratches that went through the alclad. We used NAPA primer for this There are many primers that are probably better than the old zinc chromate. Several builders have mentioned Marhyde. I prefer the 7022 (?) spray can, etching primer that's available at NAPA. (check archive.) The NAPA primer is much cheaper than Marhyde and seems a lot tougher as well. Also, the NAPA has a much better spray pattern than the Marhyde. We ScotchBrite the metal and clean with acetone. No need to use an etch as the primer is an etching primer. On my second RV, I primed the spars with Sherwin Williams Industrial Wash primer and really liked it. I believe this is the same primer that Van's uses on the quick builds. If you use this primer, remember, it won't hide the metal. Some builder's put it on way too thick. This is a very reasonably priced primer and is tougher than the Marhyde and NAPA. If you decide to prime the whole interior, I feel this primer would be a good choice. Even if you use this primer, it's nice to have a can of the NAPA product around for touch up. On Charlie's 6A, the guy I'm helping, I think we've used two spray cans on the whole airplane. We wanted to keep the plane as light as possible. We have a very dry, non-corrosive environment here in Wyoming so don't worry too much about corrosion. Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com >i have just ordered my tail kit to the 6. want to hit the ground >running when it arrives. i am confused on the type of primers used for >corrosion protection. i thought i read sam bucan. that he used auto >primer?? i have a new Wicks cat. and on page 318 i c the zinc chormates. >however i also see a 11 0z can along with quarts and gals that must be >thinned, correct??? anyway i can see that u guys best get used to me i >am sure i will have q's for the next... years :) thanx guys, bob >paulovich, arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rd Gibbs" <richgibb(at)mcn.net>
Subject: Re: Primer pump
Date: Feb 11, 1999
For all of you who are installing electric primers Teledyne makes an ignition switch that has a push to prime function built into it. No extra switches needed in the panel. ---------- > From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer pump > Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:26 PM > > > (The problem) I have a 3/8" through firewall fitting(no pipe > >thread) with which to continue my fuel line but no gascolator to run my > >1/8" fuel primer line off of. Did I paint myself into a corner? Thanks > >ahead > > > >RV6A /finsih kit/just treading water > >panejoe(at)flnet.com > > > Joe, > > Why not "tee" the fuel line on the high pressure side of the boost pump > and use one of the electric primer solenoids recently discussed on the > list? Keep all the primer line on the engine side of the firewall and > activate it with a switch on the panel while the boost pump is running. > > Mike Wills > RV-4 fuse out of the jig > willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: primer???
Bob Paulovich wrote: > > > i have just ordered my tail kit to the 6. want to hit the ground > running when it arrives. i am confused on the type of primers used for > corrosion protection. i thought i read sam bucan. that he used auto > primer?? i have a new Wicks cat. and on page 318 i c the zinc chormates. > however i also see a 11 0z can along with quarts and gals that must be > thinned, correct??? anyway i can see that u guys best get used to me i > am sure i will have q's for the next... years :) thanx guys, bob > paulovich, arkansas > Bob, There are primers that offer true corrosion protection and others that don't. There's plenty in the archives on the subject. Regardless of which primer(s) you decide on, try to be flexible. If you have to drag out the compressor, prep surfaces, mix primer, etc., everytime you need to primer something, your building process will be slower. There are small priming jobs and large priming jobs. If the job is large, go ahead and drag all the stuff out do it. On small jobs, get spray cans of Marhyde or Chromate where you can do a quick clean and primer and then get back to building. Arkansas is a lot like Oklahoma, weatherwise. IMHO it's not necessary to primer everything in this climate. My empennage is totally primed inside which was probably overkill. On my wings, everything is primered except the ribs. Everthing that touches the ribs is primered. I will try a different approach when I get my fuselage kit, I will completely primer all bulkheads and insides of skins and other various parts when i get it. Then just a little touch-up here and there during building. Bottom line is, don't get caught up in the priming thing and lose good building time. Prime smart! Good luck Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok -6a wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Rick Raines <rv6a(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
Boris, I have a precision steel Steven Frey Fuselage Jig (RV6-6A) for sale for $850. This jig has the birdcage adapter and all manuals and docmentation. Please phone 706-648 -2755 . Boris wrote: > > We've got hundreds of little fields here in south Florida, mostly for ag > use. The benefit of having it registered is improved future protection > regarding development around your property including towers and wires. > You may have none otherwise. > > Adrian Chick wrote: > > > > > > I called the FAA and asked them what is required in order to > > have a landing strip on one's private property. The FAA > > inspector told me that I didn't have to register it, but > > that if I notified the FAA and registered it, they would > > make safety recommendations to me, as well as allow it to be > > plotted on a sectional. Fine. So, I get this form in the > > mail from the FAA today (7480-1). The form begins by > > defining "airport" as "Any landing Area such as Airport, > > Heliport, Seaplane Base, Ultralight Flightpark, or > > Balloonport." Then, it states, in part, that one who > > establishes a new airport must notify the administrator by > > completing the 7480-1 form and submitting it. The form also > > sets out penalties for not following these instructions. > > The form in not unreasonably complex, but does require one > > to plot the coordinates, length, obstructions, other > > airports nearby, etc. You also indicate whether the > > "airport" is "personal", "private", or "public". It seems > > to me from this form that I DO have to register it. Any > > comments? > > > > adrian chick > > nashville, tn > > rv6a wings on order > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-6 Engine cowling
From: Blah ba Blah <daviddla(at)Juno.com>
I have located a cowling for a good price ($250.00), but I have to pay shipping across the country. Before I complete the deal I would like to know if anyone closer to me (southern California) has a cowling for sale for the same price? Thanks, David Ahrens ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: New RV-8 weight
Message text written byBryan Jones >... Using that accelerator pump is a tempting way to prime an engine, but my dad & I had a sure-enough fire in a rental 152 after pumping the throttle. I had never been that concerned about pumping the throttle a couple of times, but seeing the flames coming out from under the plane will change this perception.< I suspect this was in a C-150 not a C-152. When Cessna switched from a Continental O-200 to a Lycoming O-235 in the -152 they eleiminated the accelerator pump. Your point is very valid though, theaccelerator pump should not be usd to prime the engine. I remember when the C-152 first came out that a lot of people complained it was hard to start. All they had to do was prime, which they should have been doing all along instead of pumping the throttle. Getting rid of the pump also eliminated the problem of the engine flooding and quiting if the throttle was advanced too quickly. I know one instructor who waitied a bit too long before telling a student to go-around after a simulated engine failure. The engine sputtered and the airplane settled. The gear came off when it hit a stone wall and the plane made one of the few "gear up" landings in C-150 history. Scott A. Jordan more 150 / 152 time than I care to think of ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GSTRV8(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: fuel pump/gascolator
I'm installing a fuel injection engine in my RV-8 and trying to find the best location for the high pressure boost pump and gascolator, has anyone used this combination, if so how is it working and where is it located?. Gil Theriault, RV6/8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brent's mail" <vredding(at)home.com>
Subject: Fiberglas repair
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Upon boarding my RV 6, I had the misfortune of having a passenger crack the fiberglass cuff that overlaps my sliding canopy. I was very pleased with the finished result, but I have to admit that it was a little flimsy with only 3 layers of glass cloth. I'm about to redo it and am wondering if anyone else has had this problem. I'm contemplating usining carbon graphite or Kevlar mat for extra strength so as not to make it too thick. I'd appreciate any input. Brent Redding E-Mail: vredding(at)home.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: DENNIS HART <dennishart(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Riveting
George- I nicked the edge of of one of holes in the hs-609pp when I had to drill out a bad rivet. I stepped it up to a 5/32 rivet to clean up the edge and had good E/D. I saw no reason why this would not work but I ran it by the guys at Vans just to be sure. They said no problem with a 5/32 but that is the max, because of the E/D. But the 609 is more structural than the 603, wanted holes to be perfect. I would either leave it as is or put in a 5/32 and skip the 3/16. More important to keep E/D on 609,I think. I am not sure how available 5/32 rivets are. Maybe that is why you did not mention them. I have access to them at work so it seemed an obvious solution. I would think it would be fine as is. Whichever gives you peace of mind i suppose. Dennis Hart > >don't try to get too accurate as I did. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE >WITH THIS? HOW MUCH OUT OF ROUND CAN THE RIVET HOLES BE? SHOULD I PUT IN >LARGER RIVETS? > >George Armstrong >RV6-A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Santschi" <rv8pilot(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Primer
Date: Feb 11, 1999
I have been using Sherwin Williams 988 self etch primer in the spray can on my 8 emp with good results, goes on light ,thin and tough. Chris Santschi RV8 #80881. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Subject: Re: External Solenoid Jumper
In a message dated 2/11/99 6:08:09 AM Pacific Standard Time, MLaboyteau(at)aol.com writes: << I bought a new Sky-Tec starter from Van's. It's the LM model, which doesn't have the permanent magnets. My starter does the same thing, after disengaging the starter switch, it remains engaged for a few seconds. At first I thought that there was some sort of interference between the ring and pinion gear on the starter. It doesn't bother me enough to go and rewire the start circuit, but the "motoring" phenomenon is not limited to just the permanent magnet "PM" models. >> Mark- I presume you are referring to the Sky-Tec LS model. Many people incorrectly presume that the PM is the only model with permanent magnets. The LS is identical to the PM except for the rotational position of the solenoid on the housing (2:30 position for the LS, 7:30 position for the PM when viewed from the front). To reiterate, the LS and PM are both 12 V permanent magnet starters and would be expected to act identically in terms of this "run-on" issue. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Oshkosh Forums Audio Tapes
Dave Yeoman has been recording Oshkosh forums for 27 years. The index alone is over 50 pages of fine print listing 5,000+ titles. I'm pleased to offer the index from our website at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/oshforum.pdf I recommned you NEVER print this document . . . rather use Adobe Acrobat to "find" keywords and let you zoom in on a title, author or topic. Dave and I've been working on the Beechjet's autopilot and trim systems for the past several weeks. Dave mentioned that he had an index of audio tapes available on disk. I thought I would make it available via our website. Enjoy! Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . > < When deprived of facts, > < our fantasies are generally > < much worse than reality. > ================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 1999
From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: primer
First of all let me thank you all for all the input and advise. I now understand after visiting the archives re pimming why some of you all warned me about the ole dead horse that has been beaten over and over again. There appears to be so may varying opinons on the subject, dependinng on climate, effectiveness, time, cost, weight, and on and on. I intend to prime the inners of the tail yet i want it to be easy, light and effective and live in the south/central us away from salt yet a humid climate in the summer. Please let me know what you all think now that you know my thoughts. I plan to use the good ole aerosle can and intend to NOT prime any alclad surfaces except those that meet metal. My question, and the last one i promise on the subject is your thoughts or votes on marhide, zinc chromate, rustoleum, and I believe Bob Skinner mentioned a napa type of self-etch #7202 ? Last question, when useing any of the above do I need to use scothbrite, then wash with acetone??? Thanx again guys, Bob Paulovich Arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "true(at)uswest.net
by phnxpop2.phnx.uswest.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 1999 06":38:11.-0000(at)matronics.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Primer on QB
I too have a question about primer. It's a simple one (I think) and hopefully won't restart the primer wars. I'm pretty sure at this point that I'll be going with the quickbuild kit. I know it's primed already with a wash primer (Marhyde?). How good of a primer is this compared to some of the others that have been talked about? By this I guess I'm asking how well will it prevent or resist corrosion over time if the aircraft is operated in a maritime environment, such as being based on the coast with high humidity & salt air? Is there anybody who used to work at Grumman and is knowledgeable about primers used on Naval aircraft? Yes, I live in the desert, but who knows where I might be living in a few more years. George True ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Subject: Re: Primer pump
Date: Feb 11, 1999
Where can I order this switch from? ----- Original Message ----- From: rd Gibbs <richgibb(at)mcn.net> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 1999 4:03 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer pump > >For all of you who are installing electric primers Teledyne makes an >ignition switch that has a push to prime function built into it. No extra >switches needed in the panel. > >---------- >> From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer pump >> Date: Thursday, February 11, 1999 3:26 PM >> >> >> (The problem) I have a 3/8" through firewall fitting(no pipe >> >thread) with which to continue my fuel line but no gascolator to run my >> >1/8" fuel primer line off of. Did I paint myself into a corner? Thanks >> >ahead >> > >> >RV6A /finsih kit/just treading water >> >panejoe(at)flnet.com >> >> >> Joe, >> >> Why not "tee" the fuel line on the high pressure side of the boost pump >> and use one of the electric primer solenoids recently discussed on the >> list? Keep all the primer line on the engine side of the firewall and >> activate it with a switch on the panel while the boost pump is running. >> >> Mike Wills >> RV-4 fuse out of the jig >> willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: fuel leak
Date: Feb 08, 1999
>Any advice on how to fix a fuel leak? I have gas "seeping " out around a >rivet on the top of my left tank. I can see a very small "pin" hole in the >paint, at the edge of the rivet. Being on top I only notice it when the tanks >are completely full. Would appreciate any ideas. > >Thanks. > >Walt Hastings RV-6A N79WH 115 hrs Walt, I had the same situation, but on a bottom (skin stiffener) rivet. I drilled it out, with a small blob of sealant on the drill bit to catch as much of the debris as possible. Then I drilled the hole out for a sealed end pop rivet, cleaned the area well, and installed the rivet with a smear of sealant. It no longer leaks. Brian Denk RV8 #379 wiring stuff....still. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: J&K Originals <jgh(at)iavbbs.com>
Are you asking me personally to add your name to the Michigan RV list? If so, that address is <http://onelist.com> and then search for "rvmi". Otherwise, go to the appropriate web-site below. > >Please add my name and e-mail address to your mailing address. Thank You. >dana drake, drake(at)startelegram.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: Fran Malczynski <fmalczy(at)ibm.net>
Subject: primer
When I started my RV6 I was also very confused about whether I should primer, how much, what kind etc. The process has been evolutionary with me as different parts of my airplane are primed differently. The longer I build, the less I prime. The entire inside of my emmpennage was primed using DuPont Variprime. When I did my wings I switched to a Variprime look alike called Amer-Etch made by American Finishes and primed the spars, ribs and only the mating surfaces of the skins. On the fuselage I swtched primers again and went with NAPA 7220 which then came in a 15 oz. size. I primed the bulkheads, longerons and most connecting angles. Seat ribs, baggage ribs, "J" stringers and baggage side panels were not primed. I'm starting to attach the skins now and they also will not be primed. If anything had plastic sheeting on it was generally not primed. I am very pleased with the NAPA 7220 etching primer although disappointed that they switched to 12 oz. cans but did not lower their price. I scotchbrite my parts and then wash with NAPA 6383 Kleanz-Easy Surface Cleaner. I was using DuPont 3812S Fast dry Enamel Reducer as a cleaning agent but switched because of price. All steel parts are primed twice and then covered with white spray enamel from Wal-Marts. All of these changes occurred either to reduce workload based on a perceived diminishing need for primer and/or cost. In all of the cases above I used a respirator with Cabot Safety cartridges R51HE. As you can see, this has been an evolving educational process and I feel not much different then what a lot of others have gone through with their metal prep/priming process. Hope it helps. Fran Malczynski RV6 (fuse skins) Olcott, NY ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com>
Subject: Lynchburg, VA visit
Folks, I'll be visiting one of my (companies) customers in Lynchburg, VA from the 15th through the 19th of Feb. Anyone in that area with a RV6A (any stage - though I still haven't had a ride) that would like a visitor for a few hours please let me know directly so we can get together. Thanks, Ralph Capen RV6A Emp Dallas, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
<< Dig the trench, Lay the cable. Then call the power company to attach it. Explain that Their refusal might cost them a lot of money when the first airplane hits their power line. Especially if the lines are already in, buried, but not hooked up because of their refusal. Do not offer to pay for the hook up. My power company will come out and disconnect the power to my house FREE if I am cutting a tree that might fall on the line. They come back after the tree is down and re-connect, FREE. They don't want me messing with the line into my house even if it is only 220 VAC. Good Luck. >> Well, Cy, there's an idea, but where do I get 7200 volt direct burail cable? This line feeds the whole valley. Plus I think they are rather picky about grounding both ends; that part alone added almost a thousand bucks to the job. They tell me the biggest expense is the weatherhead transitions from overhead cable to the direct burial type. They have to construct one such junction on each telephone pole and then guy them extra to make up for the absent tension when the span of power line is cut down. It's not so much that I think the job won't truly cost that much, regardless of who does it, as it is the hope they will ABSORB the cost so I don't get socked with it. Asking them to sign off on my own trenching and cable laying might be about like asking an A & P to sign off on a home engine overhaul... but let's not go there again! Who knows... I'll run it past somebody. -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: Shelby Smith <shelbyrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: fuel leak
Brian Denk wrote: > > > >Any advice on how to fix a fuel leak? I have gas "seeping " out around > a > >rivet on the top of my left tank. I can see a very small "pin" hole in > the > >paint, at the edge of the rivet. Being on top I only notice it when the > tanks > >are completely full. Would appreciate any ideas. > > > >Thanks. > > > >Walt Hastings RV-6A N79WH 115 hrs Walt, I had a pinhole leak in the inboard leading edge where the attach bracket goes. I pulled a vacume on my tank and dribbled some slosh in the the area. It seemed to hold when I tested it with the balloon test. I haven't tested it with gas yet. I have heard that this is the method used by a Mooney repair place to fix their tanks. BTW, I did not slosh my tanks otherwise. Shelby in Nashville. Fuse in Jig ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: requirements for landing stip
Date: Feb 12, 1999
I had my AI sign off my engine overhaul without any questions. He inspected it twice as I went along. Checked the cotter keys to see if they were ok. Looked at the cross hatching in the cylinders. Looked at my weight records of piston rod assemblies. But you are right that is a rather husky line. But you might draw a picture of their liability if the line is not buried. Who are they going to come after? You or the much deeper pockets of the power company? Might buy some stock and approach as a stock holder. Let the broker hold it in street name so they don't know how much you own. This might be a place for legal negotiations. -----Original Message----- From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com <SportAV8R(at)aol.com> Date: Friday, February 12, 1999 10:50 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: requirements for landing stip > > ><< Dig the trench, Lay the cable. Then call the power company to attach it. > Explain that Their refusal might cost them a lot of money when the first > airplane hits their power line. Especially if the lines are already in, > buried, but not hooked up because of their refusal. Do not offer to pay for > the hook up. My power company will come out and disconnect the power to my > house FREE if I am cutting a tree that might fall on the line. They come > back after the tree is down and re-connect, FREE. They don't want me > messing with the line into my house even if it is only 220 VAC. > > Good Luck. >> > >Well, Cy, there's an idea, but where do I get 7200 volt direct burail cable? >This line feeds the whole valley. Plus I think they are rather picky about >grounding both ends; that part alone added almost a thousand bucks to the job. >They tell me the biggest expense is the weatherhead transitions from overhead >cable to the direct burial type. They have to construct one such junction on >each telephone pole and then guy them extra to make up for the absent tension >when the span of power line is cut down. It's not so much that I think the >job won't truly cost that much, regardless of who does it, as it is the hope >they will ABSORB the cost so I don't get socked with it. Asking them to sign >off on my own trenching and cable laying might be about like asking an A & P >to sign off on a home engine overhaul... but let's not go there again! > >Who knows... > >I'll run it past somebody. > >-Bill B > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne)
Subject: Re: Fiberglas repair
Has anyone done this in aluminum or stainless? I shaped a piece of .032 2024T3 about a foot long & at the most severe part of the curve. It seemed to fit rather well. I figure I could do the whole thing in about six pieces and maybe finish up with a layer of frp. It appeals to me as another way to retard progress :~( hal > Upon boarding my RV 6, I had the misfortune of having a passenger crack the > fiberglass cuff that overlaps my sliding canopy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: McLaughlJR(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Round-holed cowls, and pressure plenums
In th recent RV-ator, the blurb on Mike Seager's newly reconditioned ride, the old -6T, mentioned that it had been used as a test bed for the holey-cowl pressure plenum package. Has this information been published? If so, where and when? If not, could someone share their knowledge on this endeavor? ( Mike, or Scott ?) Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. Joel Mclaughlin -6 Wings N.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GLPalinkas(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Re: Floorskins
> If you put in nutplates ribs what size rivet > should you use on the forward > skins where the screws go through the bulkhead > just aft of the wing spar? Keith Wrote: <> I am in the process of trying to decide whether the extra work to use nutplates for the baggage and seat floors on my QB6 is worth the effort. I am not worried about the extra weight and have a hard time judging whether to permanently seal those areas. Please tell us how your (and others that may be flying) efforts worked out and if you would do it again. Thanks ( a search of the archive didn't really answer my questions). Gary Palinkas Parma, Ohio RV-6 QB 198RV (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Re: fuel pump/gascolator
In a message dated 2/11/99 9:11:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, GSTRV8(at)aol.com writes: > I'm installing a fuel injection engine in my RV-8 and trying to find the best > location for the high pressure boost pump and gascolator, has anyone used > this > combination, if so how is it working and where is it located?. > Gil Theriault, RV6/8 I installed a high pressure pump and inline filter from Airflow Performance in my -6A. The pump setup is kinda bulky, so I mounted in on the aft side of the firewall. The fuel filter is inside of the left wingroot, courtesy of inspiration from Mr. Bowhay. You can see pictures of both of these installations on my website at http://members.aol.com/mlaboyteau/index.html Mark LaBoyteaux RV-6A N106RV Broken Arrow, Ok MLaboyteau(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: support(at)matronics.com (Matronics Technical Support 925-606-1001)
Date: Feb 12, 1999
"RE: Message to List Contained MIME..." (Feb 12, 10:52am)
Subject: Re: Message Contained MIME -> MS Outlook...
>-------------- >>-------------- >> >>Hello, >> >>The message you posted to the List below contained MIME enclosure data and >>consequently was not posted to the List. You will notice that the enclosure >>is quite large and contains data that many mailer programs can't use. This >>enclosure also adds far too much 'useless' data to the already huge archive >>file. Please check the configuration of your email program and disable >>MIME. >>Feel free to repost your message when you are sure MIME has been disabled. >> >>Thanks! >> >>Matt Dralle >>List Admin. >>-------------- > >OK ... I've looked everywhere (or so I think) and can't find any reference >to "MIME". I am using MS Outlook. This was my first post to the list, and >I would still like to post my question. Any ideas ??? > >>-------------- Dear Larry et al, Generally Microsoft Outlook encodes a message with MIME when you include "Stylized Text" in your message. This means that if you change the font, indent, increase the font size or color style, or basically use any of the "Stylized Text" options, Outlook will encode it using MIME. If you just type in a message, without using any of these features, MS Outlook will generally just send the message as plain text. You can also disable MIME in MS Outlook by following steps: Click on "Tools". Then select "Services". Next select the "Services Tab" here (should already be selected). In the profile list, select "Internet Mail". Click on the "Properties" button. Select the "General" tab (default tab). Click on the "Message Format..." button. *UNCHECK* the "Use MIME when sending messages" check box. Click on OK, etc. etc. This should keep MS Outlook from using MIME even if you somehow use Stylize Text in your message. Best of Luck, Matt Dralle RV, Kolb, Zenith, and Rocket List Admin. -- Technical Support | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | support(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com W.W.W. | Specializing in Aircraft Avionics ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: spruce(at)deltanet.com (Aircraft Spruce & Specialty)
Subject: reply
Dear Scott, I noticed your comment on the RV group that you are dissatisfied with Aircraft Spruce to the point where you decided to abbreviate our name to a not so complimentary word! I am sorry to learn that you are no satisfied and ask that you let me know what has caused you to feel this way about AIRCRAFT SPRUCE. I will personally look into whatever problems existed and reply to you promptly. We provide quality products and outstanding service to hundreds of customers each day and would welcome the opportunity to change your mind! Regards, Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY CO. 225 Airport Circle Corona, CA 90270 U.S.A. Tele: 909-372-9555 Fax: 909-372-0555 Order Desk: 800-824-1930 Customer Service: 800-861-3192 Email: info@aircraft-spruce.com WWW: http://www.aircraft-spruce.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: spruce(at)deltanet.com (Aircraft Spruce & Specialty)
Subject: reply
Dear Jim, I have reviewed your comments on the RV newsgroup and am sorry that you consider our company to perform so poorly as a supplier. I note that you have ordered numerous times in recent months, and certainly hope that every one of your orders has not been handled unsatisfactorily. In your message on the web, you were critical of just about every aspect of our business and even stated that my response to the other customer was a "form letter" and that I sent you one as well. Let me assure you that I answer all mail sent to me personally and individually, not by a form letter. You stated that you "do not like doing business with Aircraft Spruce", although you have continued to order. Please let us know if there is anything you can think of that we have done RIGHT for you. If not, please give me the specifics of your complaints and I will address each one of them and do my best to resolve the issues for you. We do appreciate your business, but if you choos not to deal with us we will certainly respect your decision. I just wonder why you feel compelled to try to turn satisfied customers against us. Regards, Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY CO. 225 Airport Circle Corona, CA 90270 U.S.A. Tele: 909-372-9555 Fax: 909-372-0555 Order Desk: 800-824-1930 Customer Service: 800-861-3192 Email: info@aircraft-spruce.com WWW: http://www.aircraft-spruce.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry E. James" <larryj(at)oz.net>
Subject: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Date: Feb 12, 1999
I am finalizing the tank mounting holes and nutplates .. with a Phlogiston spar. After searching the archives, it looks as though everyone has machine countersunk the holes of the aft facing spar flange. The plans call for either a dimple or c'sink here. Does anyone have any experience with dimpling this?? I would prefer a dimple (I think) because it leaves more material in the spar and leaves a larger mating surface for the dimpled tank skin. However, my test pieces show that the underlying (spar web) dimple needs to be larger than the skin dimple for the skin to fit flush, and I wonder about forming a dimple in the anodized spar material. So what's up?? What is the coolest way to deal with this?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randylervold(at)csi.com>
Subject: Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Date: Feb 12, 1999
> >I am finalizing the tank mounting holes and nutplates .. with a Phlogiston >spar. After searching the archives, it looks as though everyone has machine >countersunk the holes of the aft facing spar flange. The plans call for >either a dimple or c'sink here. Does anyone have any experience with >dimpling this?? I would prefer a dimple (I think) because it leaves more >material in the spar and leaves a larger mating surface for the dimpled tank >skin. However, my test pieces show that the underlying (spar web) dimple >needs to be larger than the skin dimple for the skin to fit flush, and I >wonder about forming a dimple in the anodized spar material. So what's up?? >What is the coolest way to deal with this?? > >Larry E. James >Bellevue, WA Larry, On my RV-8 rear spars I dimpled for all the reasons you mentioned. Then, before riveting, I took my deburing tool and took a small bit of material out of each hole. This allowed the dimpled skin to nestle properly. I think this technique is perfect for this application, or any time you want to dimple .040 or even .063. Regards, Randy Lervold RV-8 #50800, fuselage Home Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: whays(at)Juno.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates
writes: > >I am finalizing the tank mounting holes and nutplates .. with a >Phlogiston >spar. After searching the archives, it looks as though everyone has >machine >countersunk the holes of the aft facing spar flange. The plans call >for >either a dimple or c'sink here. Does anyone have any experience with >dimpling this?? I would prefer a dimple (I think) because it leaves >more >material in the spar and leaves a larger mating surface for the >dimpled tank >skin. However, my test pieces show that the underlying (spar web) >dimple >needs to be larger than the skin dimple for the skin to fit flush, and >I >wonder about forming a dimple in the anodized spar material. So >what's up?? >What is the coolest way to deal with this?? > >Larry E. James >Bellevue, WA > Larry, FWIW, I also had the Phlogiston Spar. I dimpled all the holes in the spar I could get to, but there were just some places I couldn't dimple. On these I used a machine countersink. Hope this helps. Wes Hays RV6-A (workin' on the panel) Rotan, TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pat <armstrong(at)coastside.net>
Subject: Riveting
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Thanks for your response. I mis-spoke about 3/16 rivets. I think the next size is 5/32. I spoke with a member of my local EAA (chapter 639) who is an AP and he explained that the rivets work in shear, not in tension. This means that I must drill out the worst holes to the next size. I wont worry about the ones with just a little bit of egg shape. George. ---------- From: Jon Elford[SMTP:jelford(at)TRANSPORT.COM] Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 1999 7:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting Pat, It doesn't sound like I'd worry about it. The rivet will fill the voids in the hole to a certain extent. I'd just install -4 rivets and forget about it, based on what you described. It won't be the only time something like this happens! Besides, you'll never be able to squeeze -6 rivets with your squeezer (or a Tatco, for that matter). The 3/16" rivets are pretty big and unruly. When you get to your wing spars you'll know what I mean. Hang in there. The learning curve will begin to taper off soon. Jon Elford RV-6 #25201 Skinning wings, Fuel tanks pat wrote: > > I need some advice. When I built my HS rear spar, I clecoed the stiffeners > to the webs, then clamped the webs to the jig to keep them perfectly in > line. When I deburred everything, I noticed that five of the outermost > holes on the thin web were egg shaped. The amount of oval varied between > .010 and .014. Almost half way to the next rivet size. I was thinking > about going to the next size rivets, but didn't because there wasn't enough > edge distance left and I didn't want to try squeezing 3/16 rivets with my > Aircraft Spruce squeezer. (Buy the Tatco, it must be better!). I put the > shop head on the side with the oval and squeezed as much as possible. I > tried a couple of test pieces and this looked ok when I took it apart. I > would recommend to anyone just starting to follow the instructions and > don't try to get too accurate as I did. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE > WITH THIS? HOW MUCH OUT OF ROUND CAN THE RIVET HOLES BE? SHOULD I PUT IN > LARGER RIVETS? > > George Armstrong > RV6-A > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Arzflyer(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Re:Inspection
Does anyone know of a certificated A&P Mechanic, preferably with IA, in the Alllentown, PA area, that is experienced on light, fabric aircraft that would be available to do a Pre-Buy inspection for me on a 1977 SuperCub? If so please contact me at:email=arzflyer(at)aol.com or home phone 520-882-6773 eve, or hangar phone/FAX 520-883-3528. AL Malecha, Tucson, Arizona. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Developing a landing strip
Date: Feb 12, 1999
I hate to say this, but my booklet on building a runway has not come back from a young lady that was writing her college thesis on developing a runway community. The booklet was titled something like "Development of a Restricted Landing Area" and was published by the Illinois Division of Aeronautics. They can be reached at the following address: Illinois Division of Aeronautics One Langhorne Bond Drive Springfield, IL 62707-8415 (217) 785-8500 . . . and the book was FREE when I got it. Another good source of information would be an organization called Living With Your Plane Association. LWYPA is a group of people that live in airport communities and is managed by Dave Sclair of the "Flyer" (utbka the "General Aviation News and Flyer"), and they can be reached at: Living With Your Plane Association P. O. Box 39099 Tacoma, WA 98439-0099 (253) 471-9888 (253) 471-9911 fax e-mail daves(at)seanet.com This group is an excellent source of information and has a forum at Oshkosh every year. They also publish a "Directory of Residential Airparks" every year which includes about 400 airparks; covenants, conditions and restrictions (rules) for many of these airpark communities; floor plans for houses that contain integrated hangars; and a list of public airports which allow "through the fence operations". They also send out a quarterly flyer (about 8 pages). For those in Kansas, I can also give you a name of someone who just completed his runway (3500 X 90). We don't agree on everything, of course, though. Ours (Lake Waltanna - SN65) is on the map (just inside the west edge of Wichita Class C airspace) and zoned, and others are not on the map or zoned. We and he also had power lines at the end of the runway buried; it cost him, too. If you want more information, please continue this conversation off-line. Also, tell me how the search for the booklet goes. If you can't get the booklet, I'll get mine back and then make a general statement on the list that I'll make copies for anyone that's interested. To be honest, even each county within Kansas handles airports differently. Thanks, Ron FLY-IN-HOME Living on a 2100 X 60(?) grass strip. . . have attached hangar but no plane yet :..(... ps Martin: the slope is no problem at all . . . you should see ours! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Re: fuel pump/gascolator
If your high pressure boost pump is bulky like my Airflow pump its tough to find a good place in the cockpit for it. I placed it on the engine side of the firewall on the far right side just above the gascolater. I enclosed the assembly in a box and ran a blast tube to it. I've got the gascolater right below the pump in a seperate enclosure with a blast tube also. The hose from the electric fuel pump to the mechanical fuel pump is a straight shot of about 12 inches. One advantage of this location is that you get a good view of it through the oil filler door on preflight and nothing is very close to the exhaust system. I haven't even turned the pump on yet so it may be a bad solution and I just haven't figured it out yet. Dave Beizer RV6A wiring Moreno Valley, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com>
Subject: Re: reply
> You stated that you "do not like doing business with Aircraft Spruce", > although you have continued to order. Please let us know if there is > anything you can think of that we have done RIGHT for you. If not, please > give me the specifics of your complaints and I will address each one of > them and do my best to resolve the issues for you. We do appreciate your > business, but if you choos not to deal with us we will certainly respect > your decision. I just wonder why you feel compelled to try to turn > satisfied customers against us. > Regards, > Jim Irwin > President, Aircraft Spruce I for one am very happy with every single order that I have placed with Aircraft Spruce, and I will continue to purchase from them. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: Tracy Saylor <tracysaylor(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Round-holed cowls, and pressure plenums
HI JOEL, I did the round hole plenum mod a couple of years ago & it has worked very well for me.Prior to this mod the top speed on my RV6 was 222 mph. After this mod + a second Light Speed Ignition system my speed at last years Sun & Fun race in Florida was 231 mph with a top speed of 236 mph.If you want more info call me at 8059338225. Tracy Saylor McLaughlJR(at)aol.com wrote: > > In th recent RV-ator, the blurb on Mike Seager's newly reconditioned ride, the > old -6T, mentioned that it had been used as a test bed for the holey-cowl > pressure plenum package. Has this information been published? If so, where and > when? If not, could someone share their knowledge on this endeavor? ( Mike, or > Scott ?) Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. > > Joel Mclaughlin > -6 Wings > N.C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DenClay(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Larry Stop. Do not dimple the spar. It has to be countersunk or distortion will occur. The plans state this pretty clearly on my set. Best look it over again. I know, it is painful to cut those giant countersinks in that beautiful golden sculpture, but it must be done. Good luck. Dennis Clay nothin' but tanks between me and a fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DenClay(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Folks Seems like several people are telling Larry to dimple his anodized wing spar. My plans say NO. The 8 spar is not like any other of the rv's. I don't know if the others can be dimpled or not, but the plans warn against it for reasons of distortion in the rv-8. Unless I am reading his message incorrectly... Dennis Clay #80473 where is my fuselage kit? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <kitfox(at)gte.net>
Subject: Re: Primer on QB
> > I too have a question about primer. It's a simple one (I think) >and hopefully won't restart the primer wars. I'm pretty sure at this >point that I'll be going with the quickbuild kit. I know it's primed >already with a wash primer (Marhyde?). How good of a primer is this >compared to some of the others that have been talked about? By this I >guess I'm asking how well will it prevent or resist corrosion over time >if the aircraft is operated in a maritime environment, such as being >based on the coast with high humidity & salt air? Is there anybody who >used to work at Grumman and is knowledgeable about primers used on Naval >aircraft? Yes, I live in the desert, but who knows where I might be >living in a few more years. > >George True George; The primer used on the quick builds is not Marhyde, and is NOT a moisture barrier. It will not prevent corrosion. As I understand it it's purpose is to provide a base for a top coat. However, the top coat must be applied within a few days of the primer if there is to be a chemical bond. Otherwise the primer must be scuffed up with Scotchbrite. I really don't know the value of the wash primer that is applied in the Philippines during construction, except to passify those of us who want a primer. Perhaps Scott can answer this. Also the wash primer is easily removed by MEK, so it is not chemical resistant. I am a believer in priming, since I live in a moist, salt air environment. So what I intend to do is spray the interior portion of the cockpit with the epoxy primer I have been using, then follow that with a top coat of acrylic eurathane. I ran some tests, and found that the epoxy primer I use sticks well to the wash primer, even without roughing up, and it is impervious to MEK. For those areas that I can't reach, such as the wings and rear portion of the fuselage, I will spray with Boeshield T-9 anti-corrosive. I don't know what the Grumman Iron Works uses (now Northrop Grumman), but Boeing uses an epoxy primer on all interior surfaces and in some areas coats with a top coat and sprays with an anti-corrosive. I'm using the same epoxy primer that Boeing uses. Mike Robbins RV-8Q #591 Issaquah, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Date: Feb 13, 1999
>I am finalizing the tank mounting holes and nutplates .. with a >Phlogiston >spar. After searching the archives, it looks as though everyone has >machine >countersunk the holes of the aft facing spar flange. The plans call >for >either a dimple or c'sink here. Does anyone have any experience with >dimpling this?? I would prefer a dimple (I think) because it leaves >more >material in the spar and leaves a larger mating surface for the >dimpled tank >skin. However, my test pieces show that the underlying (spar web) >dimple >needs to be larger than the skin dimple for the skin to fit flush, and >I >wonder about forming a dimple in the anodized spar material. So >what's up?? >What is the coolest way to deal with this?? > The coolest way would be to dimple and then machine countersink just enough to get a perfect fit for the screw dimple. You should put some primer on any area that you remove metal (anodizing). The not quite as cool way is to just dimple and not worry about it. The least cool is to do any machine countersinking without a dimple (though it is exceptable but only do it where you have too). BTW... Avery tools sells a special little tool for dimpling those difficult holes at the inboard end of the tank. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Round-holed cowls, and pressure plenums
Date: Feb 13, 1999
>In th recent RV-ator, the blurb on Mike Seager's newly reconditioned >ride, the >old -6T, mentioned that it had been used as a test bed for the >holey-cowl >pressure plenum package. Has this information been published? If so, >where and >when? If not, could someone share their knowledge on this endeavor? ( >Mike, or >Scott ?) Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. > >Joel Mclaughlin >-6 Wings >N.C. > > I don't think Van ever got a chance to do any extensive testing comparing the 2 cowls. I flew the airplane some in both configurations and I can't say that their was all that much difference in cruise speed between either (which I believe is what the small amount of testing Van did do showed also). About the only difference I noticed is that the oil temps tended to run a little higher than they had with the standard cowl. I think this should up particularly when flying in a slow / high angle of attack condition (maybe Mike can comment on this from his flight training in with this cowl installed). Keep in mind this airplane had a home brew/one of a kind cowl and plenum baffle system which was used to hopefully substantiate the performance increase possible from using it. Other installations may provide a performance boost that wasn't evident in this one. Or it may be necessary to have an airplane that is already running in the 250 mph range (like Dave Anders) to see much of a benefit from it. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Primer on QB
Date: Feb 13, 1999
> I too have a question about primer. It's a simple one (I think) >and hopefully won't restart the primer wars. I'm pretty sure at this >point that I'll be going with the quickbuild kit. I know it's primed >already with a wash primer (Marhyde?). - The primer on the quickbuild kits is Sherwin Williams P60G wash primer. - How good of a primer is this >compared to some of the others that have been talked about? - That all depends on who you talk too. I suggest you find a couple (or three) free hours and cruise through the archives doing a search on primers / priming. Then again maybe I don't recommend you do that... you are likely to be even more unsure of what is right than you may be now. - By this I >guess I'm asking how well will it prevent or resist corrosion over >time >if the aircraft is operated in a maritime environment, such as being >based on the coast with high humidity & salt air? - This also depends on many factors. Will the airplane be stored in a hanger or not? Will it be based 1 mile from the coast or 50 miles? All of the company planes at vans are primed with this same primer. We are about 50 miles from the Pacific coast, and believe me, lack of humidity is not a problem. It runs 80% + for a good part of the year. I recently completed the condition inspection on the blue RV-6A prototype (which is now 10 years old and nearing 2400 hours). No evidence of corrosion was noted. - Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Date: Feb 13, 1999
>I am finalizing the tank mounting holes and nutplates .. with a >Phlogiston >spar. - I started thinking... In my previous post I assumed you were building an RV-6(A). If not, then what I said is not correct. Though very similar in construction, an RV-6 and an RV-8 are not the same. You mentioned that the manual said either one was ok so I assumed you are building a n RV-6(A). Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Fiberglas repair
Date: Feb 13, 1999
>Upon boarding my RV 6, I had the misfortune of having a passenger >crack the >fiberglass cuff that overlaps my sliding canopy. I was very pleased >with >the finished result, but I have to admit that it was a little flimsy >with >only 3 layers of glass cloth. I'm about to redo it and am wondering >if >anyone else has had this problem. I'm contemplating usining carbon >graphite >or Kevlar mat for extra strength so as not to make it too thick. I'd >appreciate any input. > >Brent Redding >E-Mail: vredding(at)home.com > > Your main problem was not enough laminations. I consider 5 to be about minimum here. If when redoing it you do want to add even more stiffness I would recommend the carbon fiber. It is easy to work with (cut) unlike kevlar, and it will add stiffiness. When we redid the windshiled on Mikes new trainer we used some carbon fiber and it did provide a noticable amount of additional stiffness. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 1999
Subject: Re:Setting wing incidence
From: Blah ba Blah <daviddla(at)Juno.com>
To List, Is there any reason why I cannot set the sweep and incidence of the wings on my RV-6A while the fuselage is upside down in the fuselage jig? I have the wings installed to fit the gear mounts and thought that adjusting the wings, drilling the rear spar attach points and mounting the fuel tank to fuselage mounts could all be done now. What do you think? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kerrjb(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: Round-holed cowls, and pressure plenums
In a message dated 2/13/99 1:25:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, smcdaniels(at)Juno.com writes: << Other installations may provide a performance boost that wasn't evident in this one. Or it may be necessary to have an airplane that is already running in the 250 mph range (like Dave Anders) to see much of a benefit from it. >> John Marples, St Augustine, Fl converted a standard cowl to round inlets and plenum on his 6A . He said it was a lot of work, but he would do it again because he got 5-10 mph increase in cruise speed. He said he orginally had some temp problems, but now has those resolved. He was at our flyin this year, but since I was busy with the flyin; I did not really have the time to find out the details. I am installing a Sam James (Steve Barnard mold) cowling on an otherwise stock 6a with a new O-320 and a Sensinich metal prop. We have a 6 with standard cowl(same engine and prop combo) on the field. I will let you know if the cowl offsets the wheel in front when we get flying (hopefully) later this year. Bernie Kerr, 6A panel and engine compartment, SE Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce Reply
Jim, I have done buisness with AS probably from the day they opened their doors. Yes, I've gotten some wrong items and yes, some prices were higher than others, but they've always matched the best price or better than I could get elsewhere. They've also gone to an 800 number for return goods and been great about back ordered parts. I think anybody could nitpick any company if they wanted to. They didn't get big by doing things wrong. AS is probably the most supporting aviation company in the world. SATISFIED CUSTOMER Regards, Tom RV-8 TIO540S1AD LYC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Aircraft Spruce vs
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Listers, As much as I dislike taking sides or replying to controversial issues. Let me state for the record that I for one have had nothing but praise for Aircraft Spruce. They have helped in every way possible to satisfy me in building and flying my RV. They've taken items back without charging a restocking fee, provided timely service and done everything possible to please me. I realize they may charge more for some items but I buy off of them for the same reason I've had State Farm insurance for 30 yrs. They're there when you need them, no questions asked. I know everyone's experience with a company can't be all good. But I've got to say mine has. The thing that impressed me about Jim Irwin's response to the list was the fact that he took the criticism personally. To me that indicates a commitment to customer satisfaction. It's not good when a company like Aircraft Spruce is at odds with an equally good and respected member of the RV List like Sears. I hope you guys can get it together. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moshe Lichtman <moshel(at)microsoft.com>
Subject: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull
Date: Feb 13, 1999
My Vernier throttle has made those formation flights a pretty tiresome experience. I've heard it's possible to remove part of the Vernier mechanism such that there's no need to press the button in order to push/pull the throttle. Anyone on this list done it? Can you provide detailed instructions? Thanks, Moshe Lichtman N262GR, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce Reply
I, too, have always had good luck and friendly service from ACS. Sometimes they are not the expert on the subject you might wish for but then they are more "the jack of all trades-master of none". I like them and they have always been there when I needed something. JR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: memj <hombilt(at)totalaccess.net>
Subject: Aircraft Spruce Thread
Jim Sears: Jim I been following the thread about your displeasure with ACS. And, I have come to the conclusion that you have a case of Ocular Rectitus. What this is , unfortunately, is a rather common disease where the optical nerve becomes crossed with the rectal nerve and gives you a #$% & outlook on life. Hopefully this will improve with a few good episodes. I hope so. Cheers And remember when all are ticking you off it takes 42 muscles to frown and only 4 to raise the middle finger. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry E. James" <larryj(at)oz.net>
Subject: primer
Date: Feb 13, 1999
I see the "primer wars" thread is going again. I too searched the archives and came away still undecided and not much the wiser. This latest thread seems to have some good input ... so here's mine. BMS10-11 Type 1, Rev V (Boeing Mfrs. Spec) covers chemical and solvent resistant primers. One supplier (I believe the main supplier) to this specification is Deft Chemical Coatings - Mfr. Code No. 44-GN-11. This is a water based (environmentally friendly) epoxy polyamide. I have been taking my parts to a local Boeing certified contractor and having them alodined (gold chemical conversion) and shot with this primer - one coat instead of Boeing's specified two. They come back really nice. I also have the 44-GN-11 material at home for touch up. It is not easy to use - the mixing procedure is involved and it requires constant agitation while spraying (special equipment). The primary reason for this complexity is the water based chemistry. But, the finished product is very tough and looks good. As far as I could discern, this was the coolest way to go (for me). FYI : I am not a Boeing employee - just a technically curious fellow. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry E. James" <larryj(at)oz.net>
Subject: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Thanks for the feedback. I tried to make my query as complete and concise as possible; and still ended up causing some confusion. Sorry about that. My plan set is for an RV4, and does say dimple or c'sink. Because I haven't ordered my fuselage kit from Van's yet, I thought I shouldn't blab it about that I'm building a Harmon Rocket II. Scott, thanks for the "coolest way" to do these nutplates. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Don McNamara <mcnamara(at)sbt.infi.net>
Subject: Re: reply
Regarding Mr. Irwin's response-- Whether you like Aircraft Spruce & Specialty or not, the man's got class. --Don McNamara N8RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Primer on QB
71-72,75,77-82
Date: Feb 13, 1999
> >George; > >The primer used on the quick builds is not Marhyde, and is NOT a >moisture >barrier. Is this stated from he results of your own testing or from what you have been told. I do realize that Sherwin Williams will tell inquiring customers that it is not intended to be used alone (as any company selling a product will to protect their liability with the customer. They can only guaranty full corrosion protection if you follow their process exactly). One of the reasons that the use of the P60G became popular with RV builders was because some RV-4 builders worked for Hughes Helicopters (now McDonald Douglas). In production they used P60G... with no top coat... Blasphemy! Now maybe in 15 or so years the product has changed, or maybe the people at Hughes Helicopter didn't no what they were doing (not likely). - >It will not prevent corrosion. - I disagree. Surely there are products available (some cost 10 times more) that will give better protection than the un topcoated P60G. P60G is used as a "light weight" alternative that does enhance corrosion resistance. Final weight of these airplanes is far more important than we can get most builders/customers to pay attention too. I realize primer isn't a major weight addition on an RV but the way some builders do it it is much more than it needs to be. - As I understand it it's >purpose >is to provide a base for a top coat. However, the top coat must be >applied >within a few days of the primer if there is to be a chemical bond. >Otherwise the primer must be scuffed up with Scotchbrite. - As is the case with most any other primer that you would use. - I really >don't >know the value of the wash primer that is applied in the Philippines >during construction, except to passify those of us who want a primer. - As mentioned above... It is a compromise between very little weight increase and still get some enhancement in corrosion resistance. - >Perhaps Scott can answer this. - I don't know if I have or not, but I tried. - Also the wash primer is easily removed >by >MEK, so it is not chemical resistant. - With the RV-6A that I used to own (and that I primed with P60G when I built it) I never had an occasion to spill MEK inside so it was not a problem :-). A primer being removable by MEK does not in it self mean that it is not resistant to fluids that would be common in an airplane. - I am a believer in priming, >since I >live in a moist, salt air environment. - I am also. I just am not a believer in going overboard with this on an airplane material that in itself is already corrosion resistant. The last thing I want to do is start another primer war/argument so hopefully this will end here, but as a follow up I have a question of my own and I am truly interested in the answer (it may change my mind on how I feel about this issue). Now that we have a fleet of more than 2000 RV's (some of them 15 years old or more) does anyone have first hand knowledge of an RV developing corrosion with it having been primed with Sherwin Williams P60G? Does anyone have any first hand knowledge on any RV developing any significant corrosion, period? Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Dave Hudgins <davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull
>My Vernier throttle has made those formation flights a pretty tiresome >experience. I've heard it's possible to remove part of the Vernier mechanism >such that there's no need to press the button in order to push/pull the >throttle. Anyone on this list done it? Can you provide detailed >instructions? Remove the vernier control from the cable by unscrewing the cable connection. The cable has a ball on the end that should slide off sideways. You should be able to see a small ball bearing inside the vernier tube through a slot on the tube, you need to remove the ball. Take a round file and enlarge the slot enough to remove the ball, that's it. Hope this works for ya. Dave Hudgins -6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re:Setting wing incidence
<< Is there any reason why I cannot set the sweep and incidence of the wings on my RV-6A while the fuselage is upside down in the fuselage jig? >> There is no reason I can think of to prevent doing this with the airplane inverted. Kyle Boatright RV-6/finish kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce Thread
>memj wrote: >Jim Sears: >Jim I been following the thread about your displeasure with ACS. >And, I have come to the conclusion that you have a case of Ocular Rectitus. >What this is , unfortunately, is a rather common disease where the optical >nerve becomes crossed with the rectal nerve and gives you a #$% & outlook >on life. >Hopefully this will improve with a few good episodes. I hope so. >Cheers >And remember when all are ticking you off it takes 42 muscles to frown and >only 4 to raise the middle finger. > memj why don't you sign your name so we all know who you are? ACS is the worst place to buy aircraft supplies I still am upset with them from 1987 when I started my RV. I would buy stuff and then the price would be why over the amount in the catalog and when I would call them and ask why the attitude was if you don't like it tough shit that is just the way it is. You can't tell me that you can't know what a price is when someone calls in a order Jim Irwin tried to make it sound like he had nothing but satisfied customers. Has he forgotten the big thread in RAH about their service? The thing that really pissed me off was I bought a outside air temp gauge from them for $70+ and I didn't need the face plate so when I took it off it was a $9.95 Radio Shack indoor outdoor gauge it said Radio Shack right on the front of it. It had been covered up with a piece of aluminum glued to it, talk about rip off. I am glad that so many of you are happy with them but there are better places to buy what you need. -- Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Smidler <smidler(at)dcwi.com>
Subject: Primer pump
joseph.wiza wrote: > > Just finished the fuel line plumbing and am using an in line fuel filter > from airflow performance (before the fuel pump). I have elected not to use > a gascolator. (The problem) I have a 3/8" through firewall fitting(no pipe > thread) with which to continue my fuel line but no gascolator to run my > 1/8" fuel primer line off of. Did I paint myself into a corner? Thanks > ahead I'm at the same point at installing the fuel lines. I also do not plan to use a gascolator and will be using an electric solenoid primer valve. My plan, after visiting my local Hot Rod shop, is to use an AN804-6 Tee through the firewall. This is a run Tee with one port going straight out (flexible hose to fuel pump) and one port pointing 90 degrees (to the primer solenoid). I plan to solve the transition from 3/8" AN to 1/8" pipe with a special swivel conversion fitting from EARL's. This should allow me to install the primer solenoid directly to the bulkhead fitting. This looks good to me but I do have a couple of questions of my own. First, is it OK to use the aluminum AN fitting through the firewall or should I be using a steel one. Second, will the fitting hold the weight (including G-forces) of the primer solenoid OK or do I need to add a support to hose clamp the solenoid to? Frank Smidler RV-6 (still going slow) Lafayette, IN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FGoggio(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: reply
replying in defense of aircraft spruce,i can say that every order that i have placed with them was taken care of proptly and with curtesy,any problems that i have had with the orders was resovled in a professional maner, and they have went out of there way at times to insure that i have recieved things that i had ordered not on the east coast,as a customer i can find no fault with aircraft spruce,i have built one aircraft and working on another, and wil continue to buy from them,however i can not say what service another person recieves,only what i recieve, frank goggio fayetteville nc ________________________________________________________________________________
From: smcdaniels(at)Juno.com
Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce Thread
Date: Feb 13, 1999
>I have ordered a lot of stuff from ACS, myself. The only thing >that ever bothered me about them, was when I ordered things out >of an up to date catalog, and it would arrive at a higher price >than was in the catalog. - I have ordered from them off and on over the years. Usually out of the need to get something quickly (when I was in PHX.). I learned 3 things that anyone ordering from them should always do. 1 - Ask if each ordered item is currently in stock. 2 - Ask what the current selling price is of each item. 3 - Ask when the order will be shipped. Scott McDaniels These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: Primer on QB
*** big snip *** > >Now that we have a fleet of more than 2000 RV's (some of them 15 years >old or more) does anyone have first hand knowledge of an RV developing >corrosion with it having been primed with Sherwin Williams P60G? >Does anyone have any first hand knowledge on any RV developing any >significant corrosion, period? Yes Scott I do, My horizontal tail steel hinge brackets became quite pitted while in my garage (over about 7 years - I'm a slow builder...: ). They were cleaned with acetone and sprayed with VariPrime. I regard VariPrime (with no top coat) as quite an unsatisfactory primer for the steel parts. I live about 2 miles from the ocean in S. California, and have quite mild, but sometimes damp, weather. The parts were always stored inside an unheated garage - quite a similar interior climate to any local hangar. The corrosion first showed up as small, brown stains on the paint. At first, I thought it was dirt, but after some ScotchBriting, quite extensive surface corrosion showed up, covering a lot more area than the small brown spots did. Again, these parts have never been outside. I have since switched to cadmium plating my steel parts and have had no more trouble. I regard the "fluid restant" epoxy primer to be much more impervious to moisture, and the ability to clean with solvents (try that with VariPrime!) very useful. ...Gil (use epoxies) Alexander RV-6A, #20701, tip up canopy latch >Scott McDaniels >These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily >reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce Reply
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Listers, Now you understand why many of us no longer say much on the list. If one gives an opinion, he'd better be ready to catch the heat for it. I've said it on this list before and will say it again. Because of the behavior of some of you, we lose good listers. I, for one, have stayed on it because I'm constantly hoping I can help someone behind me, or maybe catch a hint for myself. I no longer post much on the list for obvious reasons. My time is too valuable to waste it on people who act as some of you do. Would you want to help anyone as vindictive as you? Not I. Some of you out there have some growing up to do; and, this isn't the place for it. I was asked by Jim Irwin, through the RV-list, to give reasons why I don't care for AS and did comply to his request through the RV-list. I sent a copy of that note to Jim Irwin as a courtesy to him. Whether you like AS, or not, means nothing to me. However, there are some on the list who don't think of AS as God's gift to aviation. For me, it isn't for several good reasons. I gave you a couple. If you want to do business with them, that's your business. However, I don't think I deserved the nastiness shown me just because I don't agree with you. I also don't agree that Van's is God's gift to aviation and can give my reasons for that. Does that make me have a bad outlook on life? I guess so, even though I have a RV-6A near completion in my garage. For those of you who are interested in my opinions, I've tried doing business with AS and have found that I'm still not satisfied with them. Because of that, and because I did give them a second chance after several years of not doing business with them for some of the same reasons, I don't feel I owe them my business. It's no different than our doing business at home and not liking some company we've bad experiences with before. When that happens, we go elsewhere and generally tell our friends to steer them away. Alas, on an open forum, we don't know who our friends are. Obviously, some are not. My RV is almost completed and will not need the thousands of dollars of purchases like I've made in the past. For those of you who still have those purchases ahead of you, beware of where you buy your goodies. There are good places and bad places. You have to make your decisions on the experiences of others and those you develop. I just hope your experiences were better than mine. Enough said. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Hope to fly this spring) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DenClay(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates
Larry, Scott, and the List, My appologies. I take responsibility for the confusion. Somehow I decided we were talking about an RV-8. I forget there are other rv's to consider : ) Dennis Clay minding my own business and awaiting a fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JRoss10612(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: RV-8 flap fitting
I have read several posts in the list archives regarding flap trimming & fitting. The RV-8 builders manual is quite vague in this area. If anyone can offer any sage advice regarding flap fitting, especially with regard to the RV-8 it would be most appreciated. Questions: I am correct that the top skin that is trimmed on the RV-8 flap to the bend in the trailing edge? Has anyone trimmed the lower skin? What clearance is optimum when the trimming is completed, about 1/8" to 3/16" between fuselage and the flap skin? Did you mark the rear wing skin where the outboard edge of the flap sits, then carefully measure inboard? If not, what method did you use for marking before trimming? The F-872 C flap fairing is installed after the flaps are fitted/trimmed and rigged. Did anyone have difficulty fitting the fairing as depicted in DWG 43? Did you have any interference problem with the leading edge of the flap and the flap brace with the flap in the fully retracted position? Many thanks, Jon Ross RV-80094 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sylph" <sylph(at)rmi.net>
Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Original Message Clipped >If one gives an opinion, he'd better be ready to catch the heat for it. I found your opinion on the list to be in keeping with the purpose of this list in the first place. It helps people like me who haven't started making those big $ airplane purchases yet. Like the recent primer question, all opinions are valuable for consideration and assessment before jumping in. Where to shop is also an important input to building the best RV I can with as few headaches as possilbe. >I was asked by Jim Irwin, through the RV-list, to give reasons why I don't care for AS and did comply to his request through the RV-list. I sent a copy of that note to Jim Irwin as a courtesy to him. . . Original Message Clipped I found Mr. Irwin's response to you on this list, however, inappropriate. Even if he's building an RV, he could have scored more points with everyone by recognizing your opinion as having some merit and got in touch with you personally. Had he done that and reconciled the negative experiences with his company, he would have won a customer and a spokesman as well. Instead he took Jim's experience personally and answered it in this public forum. An obvious defensive position and unfair to Jim's experience. Please, just one more thing while I'm on the soapbox: I was disappointed to read Mr. Irwin's reasons for staying out of the JPI/Matronix issue. As a reseller of their products, their business is his business in one way or another. However the "scanner" issue shakes out, I was pleased to see the indignation aroused on this list by the action of JPI and or their attorneys. One or both of these parties is wrong to do business this way. If they justify their action by the law, then the law is wrong. I would have thought more of Aircraft Spruce had their president taken a stand for fairness in the aviation business community instead of the one he expressed on this list. Enough said. Michael Irwin sylph(at)rmi.net RV-8 (Still dreaming - This is my year though) Durango, Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sylph" <sylph(at)rmi.net>
Subject: Re: Developing a landing strip
Date: Feb 13, 1999
I found a site with links to 37 State DOT aeronautical divisions and searched each of them for info on building a landing strip. Results were entirely negative. If they have something, they are keeping it a secret, or simply ignoring their web sites. Having lived in a small town a few years ago where the local airport was abandoned, ignored, and eventually closed, I have a personal interest in such matters. The day will come when I, too, will want to build a landing strip or live in an airport community like some I've seen in Texas. During my building experience over the next few years, I hope to learn more about it from this list. Thanks guys. Michael Irwin sylph(at)rmi.net RV-8 (Getting started in 98; then I can talk RVs with the rest of you) Durango, Colorado -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Blum <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> Original Message Clipped >The booklet was titled something like "Development of a >Restricted Landing Area" and was published by the Illinois Division of Aeronautics. They can be reached at the following address: >Illinois Division of Aeronautics >One Langhorne Bond Drive >Springfield, IL 62707-8415 >(217) 785-8500 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull
Moshe Lichtman wrote: > My Vernier throttle has made those formation flights a pretty tiresome > experience. I've heard it's possible to remove part of the Vernier mechanism > such that there's no need to press the button in order to push/pull the > throttle. Anyone on this list done it? Can you provide detailed > instructions? > > Thanks, > > Moshe Lichtman > N262GR, RV-6A > > If my memory serves me correctly, you can take the pull handle off the cable and then remove the ball inside the tube. Re assemble and you will now have a friction lock throttle. Should take you about twenty minutes. DGM RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JVanLaak(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: Re: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull
My RV-6 has a vernier throttle that also has a variable friction function where it enters the panel, so what I chose to do was clamp the central button in while drilling an 1/8 " hole through the knob, then pushing a piece of welding rod in to pin it. This way it can be returned to vernier action in about 30 seconds. Jim Van Laak N1KJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Please Read - (was: Aircraft Spruce Reply)
Date: Feb 13, 1999
As a first time builder (Emp almost finished) and member of the "RV-List" family, I'd like to comment on Jim Sears' post (attached). I was reminded of Corsair's posting (leaving the List) in Jim Sears' posting. To me the responses of all members of the "RV-List" have value. I see all to often that many people only want to associate with "Yes People". I, on the other hand, want to hear every dissenting opinion and complaint to provide a different perspective and to know there is/might be a problem. For example I would have liked a different response from Mr. Irwin (ACS) re: JPI vs Matronics, but appreciated his next day response to my email. While some may not agree with Jim Sears' opinion of ACS, his willingness to provide his experience is appreciated. Our "RV-List" gives us the ability to help fellow RV builders by providing information in a professional manner. Flaming among the "RV-List" family only defeats the "RV-List's" purpose of dispensing information to it's members. Please remember the posting where we lost "Corsair" for a while and the Poster that we might have rec'd some valuable input from. I for one have not made up my mind on ACS, but I appreciated Jim Sears' comments, as well as Scott McDaniels' and a number of other list members who had a different point of view. Please consider the value of all "RV-List" members and the time they take to provide us all, with their opinion/information. Jim I hope you will hang in there with us, your input is appreciated. Chuck Rowbotham RV-8A Emp almost finished - QB on order >To: rv-list >From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Spruce Reply >Date: Sat, 13 Feb 99 19:13:43 PST >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >Listers, > >Now you understand why many of us no longer say much on the list. >If one gives an opinion, he'd better be ready to catch the heat for it. >I've said it on this list before and will say it again. Because of the >behavior of some of you, we lose good listers. I, for one, have >stayed on it because I'm constantly hoping I can help someone >behind me, or maybe catch a hint for myself. I no longer post much >on the list for obvious reasons. My time is too valuable to waste it on >people who act as some of you do. Would you want to help anyone >as vindictive as you? Not I. Some of you out there have some >growing up to do; and, this isn't the place for it. > >I was asked by Jim Irwin, through the RV-list, to give reasons why I >don't care for AS and did comply to his request through the RV-list. I >sent a copy of that note to Jim Irwin as a courtesy to him. Whether >you like AS, or not, means nothing to me. However, there are some >on the list who don't think of AS as God's gift to aviation. For me, it >isn't for several good reasons. I gave you a couple. If you want to >do business with them, that's your business. However, I don't think I >deserved the nastiness shown me just because I don't agree with >you. I also don't agree that Van's is God's gift to aviation and can >give my reasons for that. Does that make me have a bad outlook on >life? I guess so, even though I have a RV-6A near completion in my >garage. > >For those of you who are interested in my opinions, I've tried doing >business with AS and have found that I'm still not satisfied with them. >Because of that, and because I did give them a second chance after >several years of not doing business with them for some of the same >reasons, I don't feel I owe them my business. It's no different than >our doing business at home and not liking some company we've bad >experiences with before. When that happens, we go elsewhere and >generally tell our friends to steer them away. Alas, on an open >forum, we don't know who our friends are. Obviously, some are not. > >My RV is almost completed and will not need the thousands of dollars >of purchases like I've made in the past. For those of you who still >have those purchases ahead of you, beware of where you buy your >goodies. There are good places and bad places. You have to >make your decisions on the experiences of others and those you >develop. I just hope your experiences were better than mine. > >Enough said. > >Jim Sears in KY >RV-6A N198JS (Hope to fly this spring) > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Moshe Lichtman <moshel(at)microsoft.com>
Subject: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull
Date: Feb 13, 1999
below the instructions that i followed. i now have a smooth push/pull. thanks for the help! moshe -----Original Message----- From: Dave Hudgins [mailto:davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com] Remove the vernier control from the cable by unscrewing the cable connection. The cable has a ball on the end that should slide off sideways. You should be able to see a small ball bearing inside the vernier tube through a slot on the tube, you need to remove the ball. Take a round file and enlarge the slot enough to remove the ball, that's it. Hope this works for ya. Dave Hudgins -6A -----Original Message----- From: Douglas G. Murray [mailto:dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net] Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 5:34 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull Moshe Lichtman wrote: > My Vernier throttle has made those formation flights a pretty tiresome > experience. I've heard it's possible to remove part of the Vernier mechanism > such that there's no need to press the button in order to push/pull the > throttle. Anyone on this list done it? Can you provide detailed > instructions? > > Thanks, > > Moshe Lichtman > N262GR, RV-6A > > If my memory serves me correctly, you can take the pull handle off the cable and then remove the ball inside the tube. Re assemble and you will now have a friction lock throttle. Should take you about twenty minutes. DGM RV-6 Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Please Read - (was: Aircraft Spruce Reply)
> While some may not agree with Jim Sears' opinion of ACS, his willingness > to provide his experience is appreciated. Our "RV-List" gives us the > ability to help fellow RV builders by providing information in a > professional manner. Flaming among the "RV-List" family only defeats the > "RV-List's" purpose of dispensing information to it's members. Please > remember the posting where we lost "Corsair" for a while and the Poster > that we might have rec'd some valuable input from. > > I for one have not made up my mind on ACS, but I appreciated Jim Sears' > comments, as well as Scott McDaniels' and a number of other list members > who had a different point of view. Please consider the value of all > "RV-List" members and the time they take to provide us all, with their > opinion/information. > > Jim I hope you will hang in there with us, your input is appreciated. > I wonder if Jim Irwin subscribes to this list or is someone just forwarding responses to him? for him to get the whole picture he needs to read every post. -- Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: switches/breakers
I have Potter and Brumfield switches and circuit breakers. I wondering which side to attach the main bus, the load or line? Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rvmils(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Subject: master/starter relays
Using a Lycoming O-360, where should the starter and master relay go? My battery is forward of the stick as per plans, and I was also wondering about the routing of the positive wire to the relays. Carey Mills ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)traveller.com>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Question RV6 QB TU
"Douglas G. Murray" wrote: > > > > --> RV-List message > > > RE: RV6 QB Tip Up > > > > I have been looking through the archives for information on the location of > > the behind panel supports (F645). So far, I have not found answers. Can the > > supports be moved should they be in a location the will interfere with the > > instruments? When and how are they relocated? > > > > Please respond off list, unless it will a benefit all. > > > > David - Check the blueprints on the forward fuselage drawings. The IP support > ribs are riveted to the sub panel and to the forward ribs that support the > forward upper fuselage skin. They can not be moved from the location called out. > > Call me if you need verbal assistance in this area. Why can't the panel support ribs be moved? I am working on this area now, and if the builder is willing to modify the ribs slightly, I see no reason why they couldn't be moved. You would have to be sure you didn't interfere with the tip up hinges, but slight adjustments to compensate for various avionics should be very feasible. It may be prudent to add stiffeners to the subpanel if the ribs no longer attach in the same location as the forward deck ribs. In short, this is a very "bashable" area that lends itself to customizing if necessary. Sam Buchanan (swore off Aircraft Spruce three years ago after they totally messed up Alexander Aircraft) "The RV Journal" http://www.ath.tis.net/~sbuc/RV6 P.S. Why in the world should this thread not be archived?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Gil Alexander <gila(at)flash.net>
Subject: Re: switches/breakers
> >I have Potter and Brumfield switches and circuit breakers. I wondering which >side to attach the main bus, the load or line? >Carey Mills > Carey, ... the "line" is the power input (the 'bus' in airplane terms) and the "load" is the connection to the thing 'consuming' the current. Gil Alexander ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: switches/breakers
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Think of Line as incoming electricity from the source (battery,alternator). Think of Load as the device that is powered. Main buss is Line. ---------- > > > I have Potter and Brumfield switches and circuit breakers. I wondering which > side to attach the main bus, the load or line? > Carey Mills > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-4 oil cooler and CG
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Fellow Listers and RV-4 experts. Two quick questions: 1) I am ordering a SkyTech starter to be installed in my 0-360 from AeroSport. They make two models one being preferred for those mounting an oil cooler on the front baffle. Where is the best location for the oil cooler on the 0-360 RV-4? 2). Since I am one of those rare pilots weighing less than "standard" (150 lbs), I am wondering about the likelihood of having a forward CG problem with an 0-360 and C/S prop and gyro panel when flying solo. Van's suggested a battery in the rear baggage which would rectify this potential problem, but it looks like a pain to install. Any thoughts on a rear mounted battery in the -4 and could anyone recommend a very lightweight battery. Thanks, Doug RV-4 fuselage =========== Doug Weiler Hudson, WI 715-386-1239 dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Floorskins
Date: Feb 13, 1999
Gary, I mounted my seat floor and baggage compartment floor with screws and nutplates. Like you, I had no particular reason at the time other than it seemed like it might be useful. I just finished mounting my strobe power supply under the baggage floor and it seems like a natural location. I also feel better knowing I can take the floors out anytime I want. While certainly not required, I found some use for it and I feel better having spent the extra time. Only a few problem areas: the center flap bearing block sits on top of and bolts thru both floor pieces, I used nutplates for them; the electric flap housing attaches thru the seat floor, again more nutplates; the seat attach hinges need to be positioned carefully, I positioned them to match the screws into the floor ribs where I could; the baggage sides normally go on top of the floor with the nutplates riveted to the floor, I reversed that so the floor comes out easier. The problems are minor but need some thought. It's a fair amount of extra (and some will argue, unnecessary) work at a time when you're anxious to get the fuselage nailed together. It was worth it to me but your mileage may vary. Regards, Greg Young RV6 N6GY (reserved) finishing kit > > I am in the process of trying to decide whether the extra work to use > nutplates for the baggage and seat floors on my QB6 is worth the > effort. I am > not worried about the extra weight and have a hard time judging whether to > permanently seal those areas. Please tell us how your (and others > that may be > flying) efforts worked out and if you would do it again. Thanks > a search of > the archive didn't really answer my questions). > > Gary Palinkas > Parma, Ohio > RV-6 QB > 198RV (Reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Blake Harral <bharral(at)home.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 oil cooler and CG
Doug Weiler wrote: > oil cooler on the front baffle. Where is the best location for the oil > cooler on the 0-360 RV-4? > > but it looks like a pain to install. Any thoughts on a rear mounted battery > in the -4 and could anyone recommend a very lightweight battery. > Doug, Here is a data point for you. I don't have the exact figures in front of me, but a prelimary Weight and Balance of my RV-4 with IO-360B1B, C/S prop, and Concord RG-25 battery in the standard location shows that my CG will be within Van's specs for all loadings (from solo with min fuel to a 220 lb passenger with full fuel) I do have a lightweight starter and alternator, and my oil cooler is mounted on the left rear baffle (I like the nice short oil hoses). The pilot in an RV-4 is pretty close to the CG, so I would not expect pilot weight to alter the CG by much. I think the lightweight starter and alternator (which probably saves 12 lbs very near the nose) combined with the fact that 0-320, wood propped birds tend to be tail heavy, make an 0-360 C/S setup come out with a nice CG. Probably a good idea to hold off on the battery mounting until you can get some rough figures for your airplane. Blake ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pbennett(at)zip.com.au
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: Wingtip Fuel Tanks
Jon Johanson Phone /fax +61 8 8278 8507 email jonj(at)writeme.com Jon called me just before Xmas to let me know that mine are next off the production line However he is doing doing some testing with different materials to assure mogas compatibility. I'll post anything firther that comes to light. Peter > I'm very interested in finding out more details about the > wingtip > fuel tanks that Jon Johannson makes. Does anybody know his address, > FAX, or e-mail address? Has anybody on the list gotten these tanks? > Thanks. > > George True ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Louise Coats <lcoats(at)wave.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Primer on QB 71-72,75,77-82
>Now that we have a fleet of more than 2000 RV's (some of them 15 years >old or more) does anyone have first hand knowledge of an RV developing >corrosion with it having been primed with Sherwin Williams P60G? >Does anyone have any first hand knowledge on any RV developing any >significant corrosion, period? > > >Scott McDaniels Well, our -6 has been flying 2 months short of 4 years and it is in a hanger but lives right beside the sea and does most of its flying around the shores plus we have high humidity. Several different primers were used on the various parts of the plane (each time a builder came to visit we were recommended a different primer - confusion was rife! and still is) and we did try to follow the manufacturers recommendations about metal prepartation and priming only in the good weather but I can report that where any of the paint has been damaged there are small patches of filliform corrosion forming (we are starting to tackle some of these now). However, I have looked at all of the planes on the airfield where we are based and have to report that over 80% of these are suffering the same problem. When Bill Benedict was down here he looked under the wings and commented "whow, you guys really do have a corrosion problem down here" as he spied the pitot tube that is un-primed and is definitely showing corrosion (the only shiny part was the end where the pitot cover was keeping it polished)! Inspections internally reveal no problems (yet!). The other problem is that the fins on the front two cyclinders are rusting very nicely which is not good and if anyone can recommend remedial action for this problem without requiring the engine to be removed we would appreciate it. L.Coats ZK-RVL RV6 314hr ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
Subject: vor antenna
I'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty good specs for a smaller glide slope antenna in AeroElectic Connection, but I don't see any exact specs for the vor antenna. I'm going to mount it on top of my vertical stab. Does anyone have measurements for this? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com>
Subject: Re: Smoking at Oshkosh
Date: Feb 14, 1999
> Here's my report on the Smoking at Oshkosh issue: > The plan is---are you ready?---starting this year, Oshkosh is going to be open to EAA members only! > A new 3 month "trial membership" will be available to non-members for $12.00, plus they will have to pay >.$18.00/day, Are they taking lessons from Congress? How does raising the fees stop the smoking? Larry Eschew Obfuscation RV 6A wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Nicholas Knobil <nknobil(at)gwi.net>
Subject: T-407 Stiffener Ring
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Gentlemen, I was contemplating the T-407 fuel tank stiffener ring and how it attaches to the T-803 rib, and noted that while the instructions from Van's do NOT indicate that the T-407 should be riveted to the rib with Pro-Seal, while Geo. Orndorff video DOES suggest that Pro-Seal be used. My spouse commented in a dreamy tone how attractive Mr. Orndorff's southern accent is. I wrinkled my brow and explained to her that he was talking to ME. I would like your comments, not regarding Mr. Orndorff's accent, but the use of Pro-Seal in attaching the stiffener ring to the inboard tank rib. Yours in all seriousness, Nick Knobil Bowdoinham, Maine Chief on skis in the middle of snowless field Cherokee from hell for sale RV-8 in basement deep in the future ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "riveter" <riveter(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Flap Brace
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Builders, I am building an RV-4 left wing and am stuck at the flap brace. My problem is with getting the flap brace to jump up to the rear spar W-407 flange strip and doubler. I have cut and re-bent the flap brace so it clears the flange strips and mates with the root doubler, but I can't seem to get a nice shop-bent flange while the brace is all in one piece. What I have now is probably good enough, but it does not lay perfectly flat over the 6 inches or so where I had to re-bend the flap brace flange to clear the spar flange strip. What I am wondering is do you guys cut the root end of the flap brace into sections and handle the re-bending on a brake or do you leave it all in one piece and just get the bends as close as you can with hand tools ? Mark McGee RV-4 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: GSTRV8(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: fuel pump/gascolator
Thanks Dave, For a nose wheel airplane that should be ok but, my concern is that with a tail wheel on the ground, and with less then full fuel, they may not be enough fuel gravity feed the pump in case of a vapor lock. Gil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ferdfly(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull
In a message dated 2/13/99 12:19:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, davidrv6a(at)mindspring.com writes: << >My Vernier throttle has made those formation flights a pretty tiresome >experience. I've heard it's possible to remove part of the Vernier mechanism >such that there's no need to press the button in order to push/pull the >throttle. Anyone on this list done it? Can you provide detailed >instructions? Remove the vernier control from the cable by unscrewing the cable connection. The cable has a ball on the end that should slide off sideways. You should be able to see a small ball bearing inside the vernier tube through a slot on the tube, you need to remove the ball. Take a round file and enlarge the slot enough to remove the ball, that's it. Hope this works for ya. Dave Hudgins -6A >> If you take the ball out you can fly formation O K, but you wont have a friction lock for regular flying, Just replace the whole assembly. Fred Laforge RV-4 flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mgraffeo(at)mail.usa.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: RE: Primers
I spent the past twenty years or so researching the subjects of rust and primers etc. Mainly for the automotive field but the same applies to aircraft. Here's what I have found so far. First, primers (most) are not designed to serve as a moisture barrier. They are designed as a transition between the top coat and the bare metal. Without primers, the topcoat would peel-off. There is one primer i found that ABSOLUTELY will prevent rust virtually forever. It was designed for large ships in salt water. It's called Corroless primer. I guarantee that once primed with this stuff, you can forget about the possibility of rust forever. I got it at Eastwood Co. 800-345-1178 it comes in gallons and quarts & spay cans. I've tested metal (in the Northeast) left outside for more than five years in the elements with only two light coats and it hasn't even began to show any signs of rust. I do think (haven't tested it) that the two part epoxies will work good enough on aluminum. Just r! emember, if you don't want to take the chance, paint a topcoat over the primer. I know it adds weight but the topcoat will be impervious to moisture (many primers are not!) Take strips of metal, scratch it up with sandpaper and test the materials on the trips left outside for awhile. A month or so will show what the results will be on your aircraft after a year or so. --------------------------------------------------------------- Get free personalized email from USA.com at http://mail.usa.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: brietig(at)ibm.net
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: RV-3 Wing kit
I'm looking for an RV-3 wing kit. I'm mainly interested in the the ribs; front and rear spar webs; leading edge and wing fuel tanks components and skins. I will be glad to buy all or part of any wing kit. Thanks. Chuck Brietigam, RV-3 flying. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net>
Subject: Re: vor antenna
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Try Bob Archer at Sportcraft Antennas .... 74301.1665(at)compuserve.com He should be able to help you. -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 5:31 AM Subject: RV-List: vor antenna > >I'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty >good specs for a smaller glide slope antenna in AeroElectic >Connection, but I don't see any exact specs for the vor >antenna. I'm going to mount it on top of my vertical stab. >Does anyone have measurements for this? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 1999
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re:Setting wing incidence
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote: > > > << Is there any reason why I cannot set the sweep and incidence of > the wings on my RV-6A while the fuselage is upside down in the fuselage > jig? >> > > There is no reason I can think of to prevent doing this with the airplane > inverted. > > Kyle Boatright > RV-6/finish kit > That's what I did. It seemed to me it would be easier to be precise, since I still had the fuse in a jig and well levelled. D Walsh RV-6A, 390 hrs now ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: vor antenna
Adrian Chick wrote: > > > I'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty try: http://www.rst-engr.com/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: "Douglas G. Murray" <dgmurray(at)telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument Panel Question RV6 QB TU
Sam Buchanan wrote: > > > >> RE: RV6 QB Tip Up > > > > > > I have been looking through the archives for information on the location of > > > the behind panel supports (F645). So far, I have not found answers. Can the > > > supports be moved should they be in a location the will interfere with the > > > instruments? When and how are they relocated? > > > > > > > > > > David - Check the blueprints on the forward fuselage drawings. The IP support > > ribs are riveted to the sub panel and to the forward ribs that support the > > forward upper fuselage skin. They can not be moved from the location called out. > > > >Why can't the panel support ribs be moved? I am working on this area > now, and if the builder is willing to modify the ribs slightly, I see no > reason why they couldn't be moved. You would have to be sure you didn't > interfere with the tip up hinges, but slight adjustments to compensate > for various avionics should be very feasible. > > It may be prudent to add stiffeners to the subpanel if the ribs no > longer attach in the same location as the forward deck ribs. In short, > this is a very "bashable" area that lends itself to customizing if > necessary. > > Sam - I would think that the stress lines would not be in alignment if you were to move the ribs behind the IP. Unless the forward ribs and sub panel to IP ribs are riveted to each other as per the plans you would subject the sub panel to a twist that would eventually cause problems. There is a fair bit of tension placed in this area when the canopy is opened - especially if lift struts are used. I think that the IP rear ribs don't interfere with the instruments as placed but if you are worried about interference you ought to look at the quick release mechanism on the front of the sub panel. This structure if build per plans will cause you to relocate the radios further to the side of the panel. The sub panel is one area that will get a fair bit of carving up to make room . At least that's what I think. DGM RV-6 C-GRPA Southern Alberta ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: Aircraft Spruce Reply
In a message dated 2/13/99 3:29:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, sears(at)searnet.com writes: << Now you understand why many of us no longer say much on the list. If one gives an opinion, he'd better be ready to catch the heat for it. I've said it on this list before and will say it again. Because of the behavior of some of you, we lose good listers. I, for one, have stayed on it because I'm constantly hoping I can help someone behind me, or maybe catch a hint for myself. I no longer post much on the list for obvious reasons. My time is too valuable to waste it on people who act as some of you do. Would you want to help anyone as vindictive as you? Not I. Some of you out there have some growing up to do; and, this isn't the place for it. >> Actually, I think that this is how it must be. Our responses should be tempered somewhat with the knowledge that they are subject to peer review. I am aware that I don't always share the popular view on things but am prepared to receive the contrary backlash. Frankly, I may learn more from the ensuing negative responses than the more agreeable ones. As for growing up, that is a very long, slow process and I hope that I'm not completely grown up until my last day. I can't think of a worse life than that of not being challenged on a daily basis. As for the acceptability of responses, all responses should be respectful of the poster, now matter how critical they may be on the issues. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Changing Vernier throttle to Push/Pull
Ferdfly(at)aol.com wrote: > >My Vernier throttle has made those formation flights a pretty tiresome > You should be able to see a small ball bearing inside the vernier tube > through a slot on the tube, you need to remove the ball. Take a round file > Dave Hudgins If you take the ball out you can fly formation OK, but you wont have a friction lock for regular flying, Just replace the > whole assembly. Fred Laforge RV-4 flying > Globe Swift (& I assume other planes as well) has a throttle cable which slides freely until the knob is rotated ~1/4 turn either direction which gives positive lock. Perfect for formation & cruise flight. The Swift Association has a very complete parts supply service & is located in Athens TN. If anyone is interested, email me & I'll dig up the phone #. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: vor antenna
>I'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty >good specs for a smaller glide slope antenna in AeroElectic >Connection, but I don't see any exact specs for the vor >antenna. I'm going to mount it on top of my vertical stab. >Does anyone have measurements for this? Make each "whisker" 26" long. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . > < When deprived of facts, > < our fantasies are generally > < much worse than reality. > ================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: memj <hombilt(at)totalaccess.net>
Subject: Fwd: Stupid Posting on RV-list
Jim Spears: How's this for needing to grow up????? >From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com >Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:14:06 EST >To: hombilt(at)totalaccess.net >Cc: sears(at)searnet.com >Subject: Stupid Posting on RV-list >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 180 > >My thoughts on your posting to Jim Sears via the RV-list. > > 1) Juvenile. > 2) Not at all appropriate for the RV-list. > 3) If you're gonna take pot shots, don't be a chicken shit, at least post >your name. > 4) Don't wast 1000 people's time with shit like this. > 5) Apologies are in order to Jim Sears (personally), and to the list proper. > >Sincerely, > >Kyle Boatright > > >>Jim Sears: >Jim I been following the thread about your displeasure with ACS. >And, I have come to the conclusion that you have a case of Ocular Rectitus. >What this is , unfortunately, is a rather common disease where the optical >nerve becomes crossed with the rectal nerve and gives you a #$% & outlook >on life. >Hopefully this will improve with a few good episodes. I hope so. >Cheers >And remember when all are ticking you off it takes 42 muscles to frown and >only 4 to raise the middle finger. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: switches/breakers
>> I have Potter and Brumfield switches and circuit breakers. I wondering which >> side to attach the main bus, the load or line? >> Carey Mills The "line" and "load" markings on switches and breakers have some significance in the physics of how switches work . . . but it's pretty tiny. A reader of mine using switch-breakers was concerned because the devices had to be oriented in the panel so that UP is ON . . . but putting his bus bar across the "line" terminals was contrary to his desires for architecture behind the panel. In the final analysis, it's of no practical concern for the way we're using the devices in our airplanes . . . you may comfortably ignore "line" and "load" markings for switches and breakers that have only two terminals. If you have internally lighted rockers that depend on "line" sourcing the right pin, then it DOES make a difference. Two-terminal devices may be wired in the most convenient manner. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . > < When deprived of facts, > < our fantasies are generally > < much worse than reality. > ================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: master/starter relays
>Using a Lycoming O-360, where should the starter and master relay go? My >battery is forward of the stick as per plans, and I was also wondering about >the routing of the positive wire to the relays. >Carey Mills I suggest the starter contactor go on the forward side of the firewall . . . anywhere in upper left quadrant of firewall convenient to wire routing between starter and battery master contactor. Battery master needs to be a close to battery (+) terminal as practical so as to minimize length of "unprotected and unswitchable" wire between batter and contactor . . . as a practical matter, it's easy to keep this wire under a foot long. Bob . . . //// (o o) ===========o00o=(_)=o00o======== < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . > < When deprived of facts, > < our fantasies are generally > < much worse than reality. > ================================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Greg Puckett <rv8er(at)concentric.net>
Subject: RV-8 Inverted Fuel Tank
I'm getting ready to proseal my RV-8 tanks and have a question regarding the inverted tank inboard bay. I have cut the 1.5" holes in the large pressed stiffener rings in all the interior tank ribs and the lower 1.5" holes as well in the same ribs. I have been away from building for a while and had cut these holes before I quit and I had made myself a note to cover the 1.5" hole in the 1st interior rib(the rib with the trap door) that is in the stiffener ring. I cannot remember why I made that note now and can find nothing in the plans or manual saying this hole should left out. Should that rib with the trap door have the 1.5" hole cut in the large stiffener ring? Thanks, Greg Puckett Elizabeth, CO RV-8 80081 (tanks) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: Flap Brace
Mark, I cut and rebent mine. I was able to make the cut coincide with one of the lightening holes, so I didn't cut the brace in two. Kyle Boatright << What I am wondering is do you guys cut the root end of the flap brace into sections and handle the re-bending on a brake or do you leave it all in one piece and just get the bends as close as you can with hand tools ? Mark McGee RV-4 Wings >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: T-407 Stiffener Ring
Date: Feb 14, 1999
>I was contemplating the T-407 fuel tank stiffener ring and how it attaches >to the T-803 rib, and noted that while the instructions from Van's do NOT >indicate that the T-407 should be riveted to the rib with Pro-Seal, while >Geo. Orndorff video DOES suggest that Pro-Seal be used. Hi Nick, I noticed that too, and just did it like the manual said. Since you seal the inspection cover over the hole anyway, there's really no need to seal the ring on the other side. The only potential problem I could see, was the tooling hole near the rear end of the rib. That hole is very close to being outside of the area that the access plate covers. Depending on how you seal the access plate, this might cause a problem if you didn't seal the stiffener ring. I just ProSealed my access covers, with no gasket, and using stainless allen head cap screw. I then went around each screw head with ProSeal making sure not to get it in the hole for the allen wrench. >Cherokee from hell for sale I hope this isn't your best advertising scheme :-) Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-80587 (Wings Finished!!!) PS- Thanks to "Sheriff" Bob Hargrave for the bottom skin riveting assistance yesterday. Sorry, but he wouldn't let me post a picture of him wearing his rivet gun holster. He was last seen riding a (Ford) Mustang toward the sunset :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Inverted Fuel Tank
Date: Feb 14, 1999
>Should that rib with the trap door have the 1.5" hole cut in the large >stiffener ring? Hi Greg, The rib with the trap door should NOT have a hole cut in the center of the large stiffener ring area. The idea is to trap as much fuel in the bay with the flop tube as possible during unusual attitude maneuvering. That's why you make the trap door- to let fuel in easily, but not let it back out. Remember that the dihedral of the wing makes the fuel want to flow outboard when you're inverted, so extra holes will limit the duration of inverted flight (unless your tanks are full). Enjoy that ProSeal :-) Russell Duffy Navarre, FL RV-8, sn-80587 (Wings Finished!!!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kdh347(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: (no subject)
It,s probably not the proper forum,.but I have a never worn brown Cooper A-2 leather flight jacket that sold for 250.00 . I will sell it for 125.00. The size is a 42 regular. If anyone is interested, E-mail me at kdh347(at)aol.com. or call me at 914-677-3193 Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: Primer on QB-some hard evidence
Date: Jul 14, 1999
I had an experience similar to Gil's, but I don't think Scott was referring to the steel parts in his post, as Vans uses that brown oxide stuff on the QB steel parts. I primed my HS hinge brackets with an automotive product called "Extend". This stuff is sprayed on clean metal, and nuetralizes rust, turning it into a black primer coat. I then topped that with Sherwin Williams 988 self etching, and topped that with Rustoleum. Well, it turns out that the Rustoleum doesn't stick well to the 988, and the 988 can't etch the Extend, so I had a real mess. I realized this 1.5 years later when I started fitting my HS to the fuselage. The paint was chipping off of the brackets, and there was some mild corrosion underneath. When I first started building, I did some tests to see what primers worked well on steel. I took a steel I-Beam that was outside where I work. I ground all surface corrosion off, and sprayed it with several different primers. Now, over a year later, the 988 and Zinc OXIDE are showing some very small rust spots, but the paint is not chipping or peeling. The 988 that was topcoated with Tempo grey enamel shows no corrosion. The Zinc CHROMATE is showing some very, very tiny rust spots, but it is very minor, almost nothing. The Rustoleum shows nothing. The Rustoleum in itself is a sealer, so I would expect this, but I'm worried about what I can topcoat it with, so I now use Zinc Chromate on all my steel parts. It also doesn't seem to make any difference whether you use a thick or thin coat of Zinc Chromate, they give the same protection. My plane will be hangered, so it should be more then adequate. So in order of effectiveness: Rustoleum Zinc Chromate Zinc Oxide Sherwin Williams 988 The Brown Oxide stuff that Vans used on my QB steel parts shows no corrosion after 11 months. Also keep in mind that it seems anything will work well if it's topcoated right away. If I get some time this week, I'll post pictures of the I-Beam on my web page. If not, I will post them the week of March 8, when I get back from my trip to Norway. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 Page at: http://tabshred.com/moe RV-List message posted by: Gil Alexander > >*** big snip *** >> >>Now that we have a fleet of more than 2000 RV's (some of them 15 years >>old or more) does anyone have first hand knowledge of an RV developing >>corrosion with it having been primed with Sherwin Williams P60G? >>Does anyone have any first hand knowledge on any RV developing any >>significant corrosion, period? > > Yes Scott I do, > My horizontal tail steel hinge brackets became quite >pitted while in my garage (over about 7 years - I'm a slow builder...: ). >They were cleaned with acetone and sprayed with VariPrime. I regard >VariPrime (with no top coat) as quite an unsatisfactory primer for the >steel parts. I live about 2 miles from the ocean in S. California, and >have quite mild, but sometimes damp, weather. The parts were always stored >inside an unheated garage - quite a similar interior climate to any local >hangar. The corrosion first showed up as small, brown stains on the paint. > At first, I thought it was dirt, but after some ScotchBriting, quite >extensive surface corrosion showed up, covering a lot more area than the >small brown spots did. Again, these parts have never been outside. > > I have since switched to cadmium plating my steel parts >and have had no more trouble. I regard the "fluid restant" epoxy primer to >be much more impervious to moisture, and the ability to clean with solvents >(try that with VariPrime!) very useful. > > ...Gil (use epoxies) Alexander ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com>
Subject: Re: Please Read - (was: Aircraft Spruce Reply)
Charles Rowbotham wrote: > While some may not agree with Jim Sears' opinion of ACS, his willingness > to provide his experience is appreciated. Our "RV-List" gives us the > ability to help fellow RV builders by providing information in a > professional manner. Flaming among the "RV-List" family only defeats the > "RV-List's" purpose of dispensing information to it's members. Please > remember the posting where we lost "Corsair" for a while and the Poster > that we might have rec'd some valuable input from. > > I for one have not made up my mind on ACS, but I appreciated Jim Sears' > comments, as well as Scott McDaniels' and a number of other list members > who had a different point of view. Please consider the value of all > "RV-List" members and the time they take to provide us all, with their > opinion/information. > > Jim I hope you will hang in there with us, your input is appreciated. > > Chuck Rowbotham > RV-8A Emp almost finished - QB on order Well said, Chuck. We would all do well to remember two things on this list. First, almost everything on this list is opinion. Second, the last thing most of us want to hear is someone's opinion on another's opinion! Try to be original. In my hundred years in the military, I often encountered the philosophy of arrogance which demanded to hear only "facts" so that they, the exhalted, could render THEIR opinion. Not clever as a philosophy, in my OPINION. Denis L. Walsh, RV-6A. 21 months of RV aviating now and starting to get the hang of it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ERSF2B(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-8 flap fitting
Jon, I had one heck of a time fitting the flap. The drawings are useless. The upper portion is trimmed, i would leave at least 1/8 inch clearance. the lower portion is not cut other then to fit to the fairing. it will also have to be bent to fit the curve produced by the dihederal. the fairing was a mess. i worked for ever and looked at a number of 8's and you make it look good so to speak. my final result has the lower flap skin radius point not touchuing the fuselage because the info in the wing construction does not clue you in to this problem. (the wing jig is very soso.) yes there is an interference with the brace, but make sure you are not pulling the flap up to high, that is is it even with the aileron? hope this helps. Ed Storo rv-8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 oil cooler and CG
Date: Feb 14, 1999
> > 2). Since I am one of those rare pilots weighing less than "standard" (150 > lbs), I am wondering about the likelihood of having a forward CG problem > with an 0-360 and C/S prop and gyro panel when flying solo. Van's suggested > a battery in the rear baggage which would rectify this potential problem, > but it looks like a pain to install. Any thoughts on a rear mounted battery > in the -4 and could anyone recommend a very lightweight battery. > > Thanks, > > Doug > RV-4 fuselage Doug, Save yourself a lot of grief and call Jim Wining in Planfield, In. He weighs about 160, has a 4 with 0-360 constant speed, battery in rear and still needs a back seat passenger. Call and talk to him. He's got a nice airplane and @ 1500 hrs in a 4. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 1999
From: Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: Canopy
>Hi Leo, > >I think since it was Van's really crappy docs that ruined your work and the >plexiglass, it would be fair of Van to ship you a new plexi free of charge. > >I like Van's company and people a lot but their resistance to doing better docs >costs many builders time, money and patience. In a few hours, they could >greatly improve their stuff! > >One day, I will write some sliding canopy docs - if Van doesn't and I'll >certainly include your input. > > >Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Wings on for fitting >halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC > Hal, Thanks for your commiserations. In general I have found Van's to be very good people to deal with. They are being very helpful about the canopy and organising to ship it with someone else's finish kit which will save me a lot on freight. It has always been my impression that Van's margins are pretty tight. In the end... I did it ...... its on my head. Cheers, Leo (still a fan of Van's Aircraft Inc) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Boyd Butler" <linbb(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Stupid Posts
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Lets make the list fun and nice to read if you have a problem with someone please stay off of the list and respond directly to that person so those of us who enjoy reading the comments from builders can continue to do so, thanks and happy flying to you all!!!!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PILOT8127(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: RV-3 Wing kit
Chuck, What happened? Why do you need wings? Did something BAD happen? Curious Gary and RV3 5Ajay ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv4flyr(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Palm-Top GPS Moving Map
I have found something that interests me strongly. I have found a company selling moving map software for use on a Windows CE Palmtop (i.e Casio Cassiopeia, Everex Freestyle, etc.). Up to now I have been pretty interested in the Skyforce Skymap and was considering buying one, however this seems like a much better (and cheaper) deal. The Palmtop type computers are the first ones small enough to yoke mount or panel mount (roughly 3"x5" and about 1/2" thick) -other computers are just way too big to put in an RV-4 (or other) cockpit. This setup can get position information (via cable) from any GPS w/ NMEA output. The website is www.teletype.com/gps/ OK, the big question... IS ANYONE OUT THERE USING THIS SETUP YET? HOW WELL DOES IT WORK? Scott N4ZW -finally flying (and boy does it feel good...) -Indiana. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: 596S takes to the sky
RV-6A 596S left the ground today for an almost eventless first hour. This is a 5 year old kit with a Vans 0-360 and constant speed prop. Went to the airport with the paint complete and upholstery done. Stalls were straight with full control down to the break, with flaps fell left, no flaps, fell right. (Must be the pilot) Landing was a greaser. Only three minor issues, the new Terrra radio went to 188888 when returning to the airport (San Luis Obispo, Ca), but tuned the tower, took 3/4 left aileron trim at full speed, and the alternator pulley wore a slot thru the cowl (the small B&C). Photo on the EAA Chapter 170 page, under Projects, now to be moved to the hall of fame. Bruce Patton RV-6A 596S HP-18 5596S ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: air compressors??
Instead of asking a question I think it would be more effecient to state my intentions re: air compressor, and if I am off base, please let me know ASAP. The reason I say asap is that I found what I have been looking for and with only one in stock and think I may purchase Monday. I am planning to purchase a Cambell Hausfield, 26 gal., 5 hp. belt drive, oil. In my research I found the oil frees to be loud although cheaper. And being that I am building in my garage/residental area I figuered I must NOT go the oil-free direction. The unit is 220/110 and has wheels. Px is $369. Also looking at Cambell Haus. drill for around $30. THOUGHTS??? Bob Pualovich-Arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net>
Subject: Re: air compressors??
Date: Feb 14, 1999
I have an old Craftsman belt/oil compressor, and never really knew what I had until I worked with a builder who had an oil free compressor. What a difference! If your gonna get an oil free, put it in the yard and bury it under at least 6 feet of dirt in a concrete shelter! I'd rather go with a belt drive with a smaller tank. It runs more often, but won't scare the hell outa you every time it starts. Re the drill, it's going to be the tool you use the most, so don't skimp. I have a Siuox drill from Brown Tool that my father bought me for Christmas, and now I don't know how I ever used that clucky drill that came in my starter kit. Moe Colontonio moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net Check out my RV-8 Page at: http://tabshred.com/moe > >Instead of asking a question I think it would be more effecient to state >my intentions re: air compressor, and if I am off base, please let me >know ASAP. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernesto Sanchez" <es12043(at)utech.net>
Subject: Re: 596S takes to the sky
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Congratulations!!!! Bruce, The boys and I will never forget how you took the time to show us your project and how to rivet. Thanks! I was ready to buy a RV-6 kit when I found a half completed Long-Ez project. I just finished bolting on the wings and the canard. 90% done and 90% to go. Ernesto Sanchez -----Original Message----- From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com <BPattonsoa(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:15 PM Subject: RV-List: 596S takes to the sky > >RV-6A 596S left the ground today for an almost eventless first hour. This is >a 5 year old kit with a Vans 0-360 and constant speed prop. Went to the >airport with the paint complete and upholstery done. Stalls were straight >with full control down to the break, with flaps fell left, no flaps, fell >right. (Must be the pilot) Landing was a greaser. Only three minor issues, >the new Terrra radio went to 188888 when returning to the airport (San Luis >Obispo, Ca), but tuned the tower, took 3/4 left aileron trim at full speed, >and the alternator pulley wore a slot thru the cowl (the small B&C). > >Photo on the EAA Chapter 170 page, under Projects, now to be moved to the hall >of fame. > >Bruce Patton >RV-6A >596S >HP-18 >5596S > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: Primer on QB 71-72,75,77-82
From: "William R. Davis Jr" <rvpilot(at)Juno.com>
Scott, My first RV-4 began to develop significant filaform corrosion after 3 years service. I attribute this to the fact that no primer was applied to the exterior before the top coats, just acid wash and alodine. At the time, Van mentioned this method in the instructions (although he didn't specifically reccomend it). The airplane was stripped and primed with Sherwin Williams vinyl wash primer E2G-973 followed by a sealer, then top coats of synthetic enamel. That was 7 yrs. ago and it still looks great here on the SW Florida coast. Incidentally, E2G-973 was used on all the interior parts and there is still no sign of corrosion anywhere inside after 11 yrs. E2G973 contains zinc chromate, I do not know if P-60G does or not. This is just my personal opinion, but I think that alodine is a total waste of time, money, and effort. Also, I will never use acid wash on an airplane again, it is to difficult to flush out from lap joints and around rivit heads, places where filiform corrosion typically start. One other thing, one of the best defences against exterior corrosion is a good coat of wax twice a year, I like Nu Finish. Best Regards, Bill N66WD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Primer Fittings
Fellow RVers, I'm about to rig up the engine primer on "Gillette Charlie's" RV6A. As I remember, on my RV6, I used conventional AN 816 2D straight Nipple fittings (for 1/8" copper tubing) in my primer ports. There were the proper primer fittings on the engine when I overhauled it but I don't remember why I didn't use these fittings. Perhaps they were misplaced. Tony B. mentions in one of his books the use of AN 816 2D fittings so I went ahead and used them. Aircraft Spruce (and other suppliers) list the regular primer fittings. As I remember, these fittings have kind of a probe with a couple of very small holes on each side. These fittings are also more expensive. The question? Any downside to using the cheaper AN8162d fittings? Possibly, the higher priced primer fittings distribute or "atomize" the fuel a bit better. I've only used the primer a couple of times (when not near electricity). I always preheat the engine with a sump heater and do not need to prime. Also, am I correct in thinking that the fittings should be steel as they go into aluminum? I used aluminum fittings on my engine but am sure I've read since I built my RV that fittings that go into aluminum should be steel. Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: air compressors??
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Bob, I am sorry to hear that CH is claiming to get 5 HP from 110V service. The HP is defined as 746 Watts (100% efficiency), so 5 HP requires 35 Amps at 110V. Sounds like "Sears HP" to me. The compressor you are considering has an aluminum pump and is rated for light, intermittent duty. It is also very noisy compared to a Quincy. You can get a Quincy 3 1/2 HP cast iron pump compressor from Harbor Freight for $369.99, free delivery (1-800-423-2567, item 01394-2ACA). It draws 15A at 115V which calculates out to 3.3 HP (they only lie a little). The Quincy ships at 180 lbs. That heavy weight comes in handy in damping out the noise as the compressor is running. Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit Hampshire, IL -----Original Message----- From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 5:42 PM Subject: RV-List: air compressors?? > >Instead of asking a question I think it would be more effecient to state >my intentions re: air compressor, and if I am off base, please let me >know ASAP. The reason I say asap is that I found what I have been >looking for and with only one in stock and think I may purchase Monday. >I am planning to purchase a Cambell Hausfield, 26 gal., 5 hp. belt >drive, oil. In my research I found the oil frees to be loud although >cheaper. And being that I am building in my garage/residental area I >figuered I must NOT go the oil-free direction. >The unit is 220/110 and has wheels. Px is $369. Also looking at Cambell >Haus. drill for around $30. THOUGHTS??? Bob Pualovich-Arkansas > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: reply
Date: Feb 14, 1999
How do I get an Aircraft Spruce Catalogue? Joe Rex -----Original Message----- From: Don McNamara +ADw-mcnamara+AEA-sbt.infi.net+AD4- Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 1:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: reply +AD4---+AD4- RV-List message posted by: Don McNamara +ADw-mcnamara+AEA-sbt.infi.net+AD4- +AD4- +AD4-Regarding Mr. Irwin's response-- +AD4- +AD4-Whether you like Aircraft Spruce +ACY- Specialty or not, the man's got +AD4-class. +AD4- +AD4---Don McNamara +AD4- N8RV +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "B&S Eckstein" <eckstein@net-link.net>
Subject: Re: air compressors??
Date: Feb 14, 1999
I got tired of fixing my $50 air drill and bought a Souix from Brown. Now there's a drill I like to use. You get what you pay for. Regarding the compressor, I've always figured about 10 amps per horsepower at 110, so that would be 50 amps if you run at 110. Not likely. Horses must be getting smaller. Brian Eckstein 6A Fuselage ---------- > > > Instead of asking a question I think it would be more effecient to state > my intentions re: air compressor, and if I am off base, please let me > know ASAP. The reason I say asap is that I found what I have been > looking for and with only one in stock and think I may purchase Monday. > I am planning to purchase a Cambell Hausfield, 26 gal., 5 hp. belt > drive, oil. In my research I found the oil frees to be loud although > cheaper. And being that I am building in my garage/residental area I > figuered I must NOT go the oil-free direction. > The unit is 220/110 and has wheels. Px is $369. Also looking at Cambell > Haus. drill for around $30. THOUGHTS??? Bob Pualovich-Arkansas > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: Flap Brace
Date: Feb 14, 1999
This is what I did. It turned out well. The plans could be more explicit in this area. Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 installing throttle, mixture, and prop cables and plumbing inverted oil system -----Original Message----- From: KBoatri144(at)aol.com <KBoatri144(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 11:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Brace > >Mark, > >I cut and rebent mine. I was able to make the cut coincide with one of the >lightening holes, so I didn't cut the brace in two. > >Kyle Boatright > > > ><< What I am wondering is do you guys cut the root end of the flap brace into > sections and handle the re-bending on a brake or do you leave it all in one > piece and just get the bends as close as you can with hand tools ? > > Mark McGee > RV-4 Wings >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Craig-Stearman" <tcraigst(at)ionet.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 oil cooler and CG
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Doug, I have an RV-4/O-360/Hartzell. I didn't like any of the standard oil cooler installations, so I invented my own. I patterned it after the recent RVator article on the subject. I mounted the cooler in the cowl cheek on the left side, clamped to the engine mount tubes. It is fed air from the back baffle center portion. I molded a fiberglass plenum with a cockpit-controllable butterfly valve. I am very pleased with the results. I don't yet have any weight-and-balance numbers to report. I am leaving my battery installation until I weigh the airplane with just about everything else installed. Then I can use that big ol' lead weight to fine-tune my CG location. If you would like to see photos of my oil cooler installation, e-mail me off-list. Regards, Tom Craig-Stearman RV-4 plumbing the inverted oil system -----Original Message----- From: Doug Weiler <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 11:25 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-4 oil cooler and CG > >Fellow Listers and RV-4 experts. > >Two quick questions: > >1) I am ordering a SkyTech starter to be installed in my 0-360 from >AeroSport. They make two models one being preferred for those mounting an >oil cooler on the front baffle. Where is the best location for the oil >cooler on the 0-360 RV-4? > >2). Since I am one of those rare pilots weighing less than "standard" (150 >lbs), I am wondering about the likelihood of having a forward CG problem >with an 0-360 and C/S prop and gyro panel when flying solo. Van's suggested >a battery in the rear baggage which would rectify this potential problem, >but it looks like a pain to install. Any thoughts on a rear mounted battery >in the -4 and could anyone recommend a very lightweight battery. > >Thanks, > >Doug >RV-4 fuselage > >=========== >Doug Weiler >Hudson, WI >715-386-1239 >dougweil(at)pressenter.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Derek Reed" <dreed(at)cdsnet.net>
Subject: RV6A Wheel Base Dimensions
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Can anyone with an RV6A give me the overall wheelbase dimensions, sidewall to sidewall and any protusions from the axle that might make this dimension wider. Thankyou Derek Reed...fuselage 75%...Grants Pass OR. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: 596S takes to the sky
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Way to go Bruce. If you made it in 5 years, maybe so can I. Sounds like you have some flying to do to get used to your new bird. Nice going Grasshopper! Let us know the rest of the specs once you have "wrung it out". Congratulations once again. Marty in Nashville, left tank sealing. -----Original Message----- From: BPattonsoa(at)aol.com <BPattonsoa(at)aol.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 4:55 PM Subject: RV-List: 596S takes to the sky > >RV-6A 596S left the ground today for an almost eventless first hour. This is >a 5 year old kit with a Vans 0-360 and constant speed prop. Went to the >airport with the paint complete and upholstery done. Stalls were straight >with full control down to the break, with flaps fell left, no flaps, fell >right. (Must be the pilot) Landing was a greaser. Only three minor issues, >the new Terrra radio went to 188888 when returning to the airport (San Luis >Obispo, Ca), but tuned the tower, took 3/4 left aileron trim at full speed, >and the alternator pulley wore a slot thru the cowl (the small B&C). > >Photo on the EAA Chapter 170 page, under Projects, now to be moved to the hall >of fame. > >Bruce Patton >RV-6A >596S >HP-18 >5596S > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Sneadksu(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: air compressors??
While we're on the subject. . . does anyone know how much CFM a rivet gun uses for one rivet. I'm trying to get an idea on how big of a tank I need. I have limited space but I don't want it filling up constantly. I found a little 2.5 gallon compressor for about $170. It's nice and small, but I don't know if its too small. Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Bristol" <bbristol(at)intranet.ca>
Subject: Primer Fittings
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Bob, I used the 8162D fittings on my engine and the primer system is very effective. I too read Tony B's articles and decided to try the more economical fittings. No regrets and as you know, it is darn cold here in Canada at times so the engine primer is essential. Yes I do pre heat when the temp approaches freezing as I have the 0320 H2AD engine and pre heat is more or less mandatory. I use the electric solenoid that I bought from Wicks and am also happy with how well that works. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net>
Subject: Re: reply
Call them, they're in the Yeller Pages. They will be glad to charge you $5 for one. AL > >How do I get an Aircraft Spruce Catalogue? > >Joe Rex ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com>
Subject: Re: Primer on QB 71-72,75,77-82
Date: Feb 14, 1999
The spec sheet I have on P-60G indicates it does have Zinc Chromate. Marty in Nashville. -----Original Message----- From: William R. Davis Jr <rvpilot(at)Juno.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 6:46 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Primer on QB 71-72,75,77-82 > >Scott, > > >My first RV-4 began to develop significant filaform corrosion after 3 >years service. I attribute this to the fact that no primer was applied to >the exterior before the top coats, just acid wash and alodine. At the >time, Van mentioned this method in the instructions (although he didn't >specifically reccomend it). The airplane was stripped and primed with >Sherwin Williams vinyl wash primer E2G-973 followed by a sealer, then top >coats of synthetic enamel. That was 7 yrs. ago and it still looks great >here on the SW Florida coast. Incidentally, E2G-973 was used on all the >interior parts and there is still no sign of corrosion anywhere inside >after 11 yrs. E2G973 contains zinc chromate, I do not know if P-60G does >or not. > >This is just my personal opinion, but I think that alodine is a total >waste of time, money, and effort. Also, I will never use acid wash on an >airplane again, it is to difficult to flush out from lap joints and >around rivit heads, places where filiform corrosion typically start. > >One other thing, one of the best defences against exterior corrosion is a >good coat of wax twice a year, I like Nu Finish. > > >Best Regards, Bill N66WD > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gaylen Lerohl" <lerohl@rea-alp.com>
Subject: Re: air compressors??
Date: Feb 14, 1999
-----Original Message----- From: Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 18:19 Subject: RV-List: air compressors?? >I am planning to purchase a Cambell Hausfield, 26 gal., 5 hp. belt >drive, oil. If it is like mine it also has a pressure regulator and two gauges. Mine works just fine. Go for it. >Also looking at Cambell >Haus. drill for around $30. THOUGHTS??? Bob Pualovich-Arkansas Don't do it. Spring for the Sioux 1/4" drill from Cleaveland Tool for $196 (Sioux PN 1410). The price hurts but you will use it a long time. Gaylen Lerohl RV-8 tail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Rex" <jfr(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: air compressors??
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Bob, One thing you might want to consider is a larger tank. I started my project with a 3 horse-20 gallon unit much like what you are talking about. It was adequate, but during certain operations (drilling, running the die-grinder) it had to run a lot to keep up. When my tank rusted through at a weld (always remember to drain your tank regularly) I bought a 6 horse 60 gallon upright for only about +ACQ-350. It's a tad noisier than the other one when it runs, but it only runs 1/3 as often :+AD4-). I don't know if you have Farm and Fleet stores in Arkansas, but if you don't, check at some of the big home improvement stores, they usually have pretty good prices. BTW this is a 220 volt unit, but for us crafty airplane builders that's no problem. Hope this helps. Joe Rex RV-4 plumbing+ACY-panel -----Original Message----- From: Bob Paulovich +ADw-jonkarl+AEA-worldnet.att.net+AD4- Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 5:49 PM Subject: RV-List: air compressors?? +AD4---+AD4- RV-List message posted by: Bob Paulovich +ADw-jonkarl+AEA-worldnet.att.net+AD4- +AD4- +AD4-Instead of asking a question I think it would be more effecient to state +AD4-my intentions re: air compressor, and if I am off base, please let me +AD4-know ASAP. The reason I say asap is that I found what I have been +AD4-looking for and with only one in stock and think I may purchase Monday. +AD4-I am planning to purchase a Cambell Hausfield, 26 gal., 5 hp. belt +AD4-drive, oil. In my research I found the oil frees to be loud although +AD4-cheaper. And being that I am building in my garage/residental area I +AD4-figuered I must NOT go the oil-free direction. +AD4-The unit is 220/110 and has wheels. Px is +ACQ-369. Also looking at Cambell +AD4-Haus. drill for around +ACQ-30. THOUGHTS??? Bob Pualovich-Arkansas +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 1999
From: Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com>
Subject: Re: air compressors??
>I have a Siuox drill from Brown Tool that my >father bought me for Christmas, and now I don't know how I ever used that >clucky drill that came in my starter kit. >Moe Colontonio RVers, I'd like to second Moe's praise of the Souix drill. I built my RV with a 3/8" "cheapie", $60.00 or so. Sure, it got the job done. I was on a budget, just like most folks. I admired the Souix Drill (1/4") that my friend, Capt. Bill (the guy I rented me and my shop to for 1 year to build a Glastar) and really coveted the drill but just couldn't pry the bucks loose. Well, I drooled on it one too many times and Capt. Bill presented me with a gift box one day with a new Souix drill. Needless to say, the 3/8" drill was quickly shelved and I'm not sure where it is, now. It is a lot of money, but, we're drilling 13,000+ holes. We've all made "silly" purchases at some time that we've possibly regretted. But, this is a fantasic drill. The best teasing trigger of any that I've used and a compact size. Just a quality tool. It's Valentine's day. Don't you owe it to yourself??? I'm thinking of selling my aircraft tools and quitting the plane building business but I'm going to keep the Souix! (NO, I don't work for Souix or get any commmissions.) Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: Re: T-407 Stiffener Ring
Nick, We have just finished that part of the tank for our RV6A and we used pro seal. As my son pointed out the gasket covers all the rivets and palte nuts and it may be enough but we used belt and sukspenders and used the peo seal on the ring. For what ist is worth. Rollie RV6A fus on the wey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: greynoldsn98(at)mailhost.ind.ameritech.net.with.SMTP (InterMail v03.02.07 118
124)
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Subject: tachometer cable
I'm looking for a shop that can make a special length mech. tachometer cable... Thanks Gary Reynolds RV6A on the gear ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 oil cooler and CG
Date: Feb 14, 1999
Dear Doug, I can't comment on the starter but I can certainly advise on the battery. I have had exceptionly good luck and results from the 17 amp hr battery supplied by B& C. I have used one of these batteries for the last 5 year on my Meyers OTW, No electrical system, starter only, 500 cu in radial engine. I can normally get at least 5 starts between charges and it weighs approx. 15 lbs.. Tremendous performance. I have heard that the Vari-eze crowd uses this battery with great success. If you are equipping your RV4 IFR, I would then suggest going to a 25 amp B&C battery, only for reliablility in case of alternator failure. Dick Martin RV8 80124 Green Bay, Wis ---------- > From: Doug Weiler <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>


February 08, 1999 - February 14, 1999

RV-Archive.digest.vol-gj