RV-Archive.digest.vol-gk
February 14, 1999 - February 20, 1999
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: RV-4 oil cooler and CG
> Date: Saturday, February 13, 1999 10:47 PM
>
>
> Fellow Listers and RV-4 experts.
>
> Two quick questions:
>
> 1) I am ordering a SkyTech starter to be installed in my 0-360 from
> AeroSport. They make two models one being preferred for those mounting
an
> oil cooler on the front baffle. Where is the best location for the oil
> cooler on the 0-360 RV-4?
>
> 2). Since I am one of those rare pilots weighing less than "standard"
(150
> lbs), I am wondering about the likelihood of having a forward CG problem
> with an 0-360 and C/S prop and gyro panel when flying solo. Van's
suggested
> a battery in the rear baggage which would rectify this potential problem,
> but it looks like a pain to install. Any thoughts on a rear mounted
battery
> in the -4 and could anyone recommend a very lightweight battery.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
> RV-4 fuselage
>
> ===========
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
> 715-386-1239
> dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Inverted Fuel Tank |
Greg Puckett wrote:
>
>
> I'm getting ready to proseal my RV-8 tanks and have a question regarding
> the inverted tank inboard bay. I have cut the 1.5" holes in the large
> pressed stiffener rings in all the interior tank ribs and the lower 1.5"
> holes as well in the same ribs. I have been away from building for a
> while and had cut these holes before I quit and I had made myself a note
> to cover the 1.5" hole in the 1st interior rib(the rib with the trap
> door) that is in the stiffener ring. I cannot remember why I made that
> note now and can find nothing in the plans or manual saying this hole
> should left out.
>
> Should that rib with the trap door have the 1.5" hole cut in the large
> stiffener ring?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg Puckett
> Elizabeth, CO
>
> RV-8 80081 (tanks)
>
Greg,
I did the same thing on my 6a and cut a circle patch to rivet over the
hole. The idea is to trap fuel in that bay using the trap door. If the
hole in the stiffner ring was still there, fuel would leave the cell via
that hole.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
Bob Paulovich wrote:
>
>
> Instead of asking a question I think it would be more effecient to state
> my intentions re: air compressor, and if I am off base, please let me
> know ASAP. The reason I say asap is that I found what I have been
> looking for and with only one in stock and think I may purchase Monday.
> I am planning to purchase a Cambell Hausfield, 26 gal., 5 hp. belt
> drive, oil. In my research I found the oil frees to be loud although
> cheaper. And being that I am building in my garage/residental area I
> figuered I must NOT go the oil-free direction.
> The unit is 220/110 and has wheels. Px is $369. Also looking at Cambell
> Haus. drill for around $30. THOUGHTS??? Bob Pualovich-Arkansas
>
>
Bob,
Definately go with a belt-driven compressor! I have an oil-less and
have to wear ear protection. Don't know anything about the CH drill but
if it has a good chuck it will probably do the job. I have gotten to
where I use a rechargeable drill more and more so I don't have to listen
to that noisy compressor!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
At 10:45 AM 2/14/99, you wrote:
>
>
>>I'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty
>>good specs for a smaller glide slope antenna in AeroElectic
>>Connection, but I don't see any exact specs for the vor
>>antenna. I'm going to mount it on top of my vertical stab.
>>Does anyone have measurements for this?
>
> Make each "whisker" 26" long.
>
> Bob . . .
Robert,
Don't forget to use a balun in the line at the antenna too. It balances the
reception pattern, i.e. proper vor accuracy.
Larry RV-6A, finish
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com> |
I think I'm going to buy one of these Sioux drills so that I
will be really cool. I see they are offered in either 3/8
or 1/4. How about some pro's and con's for the different
sizes?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Aero Sport Engines |
Does anyone know if Bart Lalonde of Aero Sport Engines in Canada has a
E-mail address????
Thanks,
Larry RV-6A finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
> I am sorry to hear that CH is claiming to get 5 HP from 110V service.
The
> HP is defined as 746 Watts (100% efficiency), so 5 HP requires 35 Amps at
> 110V. Sounds like "Sears HP" to me.
> The compressor you are considering has an aluminum pump and is rated for
> light, intermittent duty. It is also very noisy compared to a Quincy.
> You can get a Quincy 3 1/2 HP cast iron pump compressor from Harbor
Freight
> for $369.99, free delivery (1-800-423-2567, item 01394-2ACA). It draws
15A
> at 115V which calculates out to 3.3 HP (they only lie a little).
Actually, they still lie plenty - 15 amps at 115v with an induction motor
is at best about 1.5 hp. (115 x 15 x .8 powerfactor x .8 efficiency / 746
1.5hp)
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 oil cooler and CG |
>1) I am ordering a SkyTech starter to be installed in my 0-360 from
>AeroSport.
>
>Doug
>RV-4 fuselage
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Doug,
When did you get your Aero Sport engine? How long did it take to get it
once ordered?
Thanks,
Larry RV-6A finish
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tachometer cable |
Most auto machine shops can do the job. Just remember it is for your race
car. and you are driving it off the cam shaft...
Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact
-----Original Message-----
From: InterMail v03.02.07 118 124
Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 9:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: tachometer cable
(InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP
>
>I'm looking for a shop that can make a special length mech. tachometer
>cable...
>
>Thanks
>Gary Reynolds
>RV6A on the gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Allen <fliier(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Palm-Top GPS Moving Map(response) |
I looked at that website. It appears you but the Garmin receiver in combination
with the windows CE software plus the CE device. Interesting product for driving,
but for flying you could get a dedicated device that has the aviation database,
draws the moving map WITH AIRSPACES, and gives you airspace alerts. The dedicated
handhelds also give you vertical navigation to help you know when to start
descending in that hot airplane you're building. On top of that are the E6B
calculations (fuel burn, winds aloft, etc.)
Rv4flyr(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have found something that interests me strongly. I have found a company
> selling moving map software for use on a Windows CE Palmtop (i.e Casio
> Cassiopeia, Everex Freestyle, etc.).. .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
>Using a Lycoming O-360, where should the starter and master relay go? My
>battery is forward of the stick as per plans, and I was also wondering about
>the routing of the positive wire to the relays.
>Carey Mills
Carey,
I like to have both the master and starter relay close to the battery and
on the inside of the cockpit. On my six, I came out of the battery box with
the cable curving up and towards the firewall mounted master relay. I
mounted the relays, one above the other and had a very short wire from the
master to the starter. From the output of the starter relay, I went through
the firewall.
If you mount the starter relay on the engine side of the firewall, would
you not have a wire that is always powered going through the firewall?
Probably not a big deal if the wire is installed properly with no chance of
shorting out on the firewall. But, if the starter relay is mounted on the
aft side of the firewall, it would seem to lessen a potential "trouble
spot". (Boy, I hate being at odds with Bob Nuckolls.)
Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 2/14/99 3:14:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
adrianchick(at)home.com writes:
> Subj: RV-List: vor antenna
> Date: 2/14/99 3:14:40 AM Pacific Standard Time
> From: adrianchick(at)home.com (Adrian Chick)
> Sender: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> Reply-to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (rv-list(at)matronics.com)
>
>
> I'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty
> good specs for a smaller glide slope antenna in AeroElectic
> Connection, but I don't see any exact specs for the vor
> antenna. I'm going to mount it on top of my vertical stab.
> Does anyone have measurements for this?
You could just install Bob Archer's Wingtip VOR antenna. IMHO, You won't
reduce the drag, and improve your radio's reception, any easier than this.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 Maroon Marauder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
I have both the 3/8 and the 1/4 in drills. Trust me, you want the 1/4 inch. It
has an excellent trigger and is much lighter and smaller--a drill suited to a
Sheet Metal God or even for us mere mortals. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Gray <bsgray(at)ntplx.net> |
Leo Davies wrote:
> Hal,
>
> Thanks for your commiserations. In general I have found Van's to be very
> good people to deal with. They are being very helpful about the canopy and
> organising to ship it with someone else's finish kit which will save me a
> lot on freight. It has always been my impression that Van's margins are
> pretty tight.
>
> In the end... I did it ...... its on my head.
>
Leo,
I don't quite understand. I know for a fact that there are hundreds of plexi
windows mounted in Glasairs every year with vinylester resin. The only problem
any Glasair builder has reported was with the clear nav light covers, (real thin
cheap plexi) and that only amounted to some minor crazing. So I don't really
understand your bad experience.
Bruce
Glasair III builder
Middletown, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lcp.livingston.com> |
| Subject: | Vendor bashing (was: Aircraft Spruce reply) |
If someone has had an experience wherein a vendor has stolen money from
them, I want to hear about it, but that is about all. Everyone has good
experiences and bad experiences with vendors. This just flat out isn't
worth all the heat on the list. Can we please get back to productive
discussion of RV's and their systems.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane
(916) 676-6399 - voice Suite 1
(916) 676-3442 - fax Cameron Park, CA 95682
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 external power jack |
Greetings,
I just received the Piper type male power plug and female jack with the
intentions of installing them via a relay to allow external power hookup
in case the ole electron tank craps out. (also known as a BATTERY).
Now, I didn't realize how HEEUUUUUGE these things are! Egads...they seem
more fitting an installation in a Peterbuilt heavy hauler versus an RV!
So, now I'm wondering, do any of you guys with the cowls on feel it
would be possible to attach regular jumper cables to the battery
terminals through the oil filler access door? If not, I can only think
of welding a support plate on the engine mount somewhat near this door,
and then mounting the female receptacle there. Placing that big ole
thing on the aircraft skin just makes me cringe at the mere thought.
Any other ideas for where to put it?
Oh, by the way, these supposedly "Piper parts" are marked "Cole
Hersee"...manufacturer of all kinds of automotive electrical components.
Look on the top of your Van's supplied Master relay guys....yup...good
ole Cole. I have found all manner of usefull stuff at my local
automotive electrical supply house from this company..such as faston
fuse blocks, brass buss bars, solenoids, etc. Just a hint for you folks
getting ready to wire who don't mind having a touch of Buick under the
hood. ;)
Thanks,
Brian Denk
RV8 #379
on the gear with wire danglin everywhere.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
>Leo,
>
>I don't quite understand. I know for a fact that there are hundreds of plexi
>windows mounted in Glasairs every year with vinylester resin. The only
problem
>any Glasair builder has reported was with the clear nav light covers,
(real thin
>cheap plexi) and that only amounted to some minor crazing. So I don't really
>understand your bad experience.
>
>
>Bruce
>Glasair III builder
>Middletown, CT
Bruce,
The glasair near me has lexan clears. See my earlier post about variability
in resin solvents. Van's have used glasair vinylester to install canopies
without trouble.
Leo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
Hello Doug:
My guess is it'll work OK for riveting but not for rotary air tools
(grinders, drills,etc.) Spray painting anything big will be difficult at
best also.
Jim Kelowna BC.
>
>While we're on the subject. . . does anyone know how much CFM a rivet gun uses
>for one rivet. I'm trying to get an idea on how big of a tank I need. I have
>limited space but I don't want it filling up constantly. I found a little 2.5
>gallon compressor for about $170. It's nice and small, but I don't know if
>its too small.
>
>Doug
>
>
When dreams come true the skys the limit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jim jewell <jjewell(at)okanagan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
Hello Doug:
My guess is it'll work OK for riveting but not for rotary air tools
(grinders, drills,etc.) Spray painting anything big will be difficult at
best also.
Jim Kelowna BC.
>
>While we're on the subject. . . does anyone know how much CFM a rivet gun uses
>for one rivet. I'm trying to get an idea on how big of a tank I need. I have
>limited space but I don't want it filling up constantly. I found a little 2.5
>gallon compressor for about $170. It's nice and small, but I don't know if
>its too small.
>
>Doug
>
>
When dreams come true the skys the limit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Another primer fitting question |
I bought all the stuff from Wicks to install a 4 port (all cylinders)
engine priming system. In all the pictures and planes I have seen, the
primer fittings are installed on the lower side of the intake port where
the intake tubes attach to the cylinder. There are also 4 ports on the
top side of the cylinder for the fuel injectors if the engine was
injected. At least I think that is what the extra 1/8 npt plugs are
hiding. Is there any logical reason why I could not install my primer
fittings in the top ports. Sure would make installation a lot easier.
I have a .75x1.5x1" aluminum block that I machined to accept 5 816 2D
straight fittings. One for the fuel supply and 4 for the runners to the
primer fittings installed in the cylinders. I had planned on mounting
this spider block/fitting on one of the extra mounting bosses near the
starter on my O-360-A1A and running copper lines to the fittings in the
heads. Manifold pressure was/is going to be taken from one of the
suspected fuel injector ports. If no one seems to object to strongly
about paragraph one, I plan on installing the spider/fitting on the top
of the engine near the lifting hook and using the top ports.
Gary Zilik
RV-6A s/n 22993 - pondering where to run my primer lines.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Primer Fittings |
Bob,
I also was going to use the 816 2d fittings but decided to order the
primer fittings listed in Wick's catalogue along with the Code Unions
and associated nuts. Turns out the primer fittings from Wicks are just
plain old strait fittings with a tiny restrictor hole in the center. The
upside to using a system with restrictor fittings, as you probably know,
is when (not if) the supply line breaks the affected cylinder does not
become overly lean. BTW, I went ahead and put one of the nozzles on a
15 psi water source and it atomizes the water real nice.
I ordered four of the expensive fittings as I plan on a 4 port priming
system. (See next post)
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993 - Finally finished all the metal work on my scratch built
aluminum cooling plenum. Probably a wasted 50 hours, but it looks cool.
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
>
> Fellow RVers,
>
> I'm about to rig up the engine primer on "Gillette Charlie's" RV6A. As I
> remember, on my RV6, I used conventional AN 816 2D straight Nipple fittings
> (for 1/8" copper tubing) in my primer ports. There were the proper primer
> fittings on the engine when I overhauled it but I don't remember why I
> didn't use these fittings. Perhaps they were misplaced. Tony B. mentions
> in one of his books the use of AN 816 2D fittings so I went ahead and used them.
> Aircraft Spruce (and other suppliers) list the regular primer fittings.
> As I remember, these fittings have kind of a probe with a couple of very
> small holes on each side. These fittings are also more expensive.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller McPherson <mcphersn(at)u.arizona.edu> |
| Subject: | Flush swivel rivet set question |
OK,
So I'm about to start riveting the top skin on the rear of my RV6QB.
I've been putting it off, because even on the flat parts I have riveted, I
occasionally make some marks from not having perfect alignment with the
rivet set on the surface. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to really have
this in spades when I get to the curved skin on the top of the fuselage.
Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can help
some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
Miller McPherson
RV6QB Tucson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
Yes, the flush swivel set apparently does work well. I think the 1-1/4 plain
flush set is superior but will require perhaps a touch more practice. You may
find the curved skins easier to rivet. Tip---when drilling or riveting look at
the reflection of the gun or drill in the shiny aluminum --it will help you to
line up. You may be hitting to long and to hard--steady the flush set with
your fangles (fingers)--feel the metal. Your flush set may be a junkie or to
small or not enough curve to it or sharp edges. If you are still leaving
actual dents and not just a bit of scuffing you are not ready to move on
Grasshopper--as evidenced by your question--when you are ready you will not
need to ask. JR-kung fu riveter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
The CH compressor should be sufficient for a homebuilder. Riveting should not
be a problem but long periods of continuous drilling will tax it to the max.
High Speeds and air grinders may push it to the point of throwing the breaker.
I have done much with an old 1 horsepower Craftsman Compressor including
painting several cars. I lived within its capabilities and set my Spraygun up
to work with less volume. By painting in spurts and doing small pieces by
themselves instead of trying to paint huge surfaces I have gotten satisfactory
results. The truth--get the biggest 220 volt two-stage 60/80 gallon moma-jama
you can wrestle into your garage--that's what I got these days. Oh, forget the
CH drill and get the little palm drill from Avery or Cleveland or Brown--I
think they are about 90 dollars. Good luck. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John H Lee" <borgny(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Instrument Panel |
There is probably something I'm missing because I'm a neophite at this
computer game, but I dialed up the archives under instruments and found
that there isn't enough hours in a day to read all the listings. So at the
risk of being critized, could someone tell me where I can get the best
instruments and radio stack for the buck for my IFR panel? I had planned
on just odering out of Aircraft Spruce's catalogue, but recent listings
have made me take second thoughts. Should I put the stack together myself
or is it best to order it as a package?
Thanks for any input.
By all means don't archive.
John Lee
Waiting for engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Palm-Top GPS Moving Map |
I have tried it to many wires map size is lemited unabble to track up the
screen a better solution for flying is to purchase a gps III from your local
truck stop or walmart for $349.00 and a power cord for $20.00 you can put in
airports and symbols for them real user friendly and have the streets and
roads free.
Pat RV-8 #80536
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com> |
| Subject: | Smoking at Oshkosh |
Listers,
After not attending Oshkosh for 11 years, I went back last year as I
had missed Sun 'N Fun for the first time in 6 years. I was very
disappointed to find that the level of EAA controlled commercialism
overwhelmed all other expectations I might have had. Yes the aviation
markets were good, the cross section of plane spectacular, but in every
other respect, our EAA had their hand in my pocket. Even the onsite
McDonalds prices were controlled by the EAA.
These facts, coupled with the problems of inexperience onlookers
causing damage, will keep me away from Oshkosh for a very long time. I
just hope that Sun 'N Fun doesn't turn me off as well, but if it does, I
know that the grass roots efforts of regional flyin's should satisfy me
just as well....
Fred Stucklen
N925RV RV-6A
E. Windsor, Ct
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Jaugilas [SMTP:jaugilas(at)allways.net]
> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 1999 9:10 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Smoking at Oshkosh
>
>
> This has absolutly nothing to do with ANY problems encountered there.
> Thanks for the information. I won't go.
> EAA is only interested in making money and is never shy to shove their
> entire arm into your pocket past your underwear all the way to your
> socks.
> They need to charge nothing.
> Local chapters have fly-ins for free. You buy a breakfast and raffle
> tickets just to help them.
> Bill Jaugilas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vendor bashing (was: Aircraft Spruce reply) |
In a message dated 2/15/99 12:51:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
brian(at)lcp.livingston.com writes:
<< If someone has had an experience wherein a vendor has stolen money from
them, I want to hear about it, but that is about all. Everyone has good
experiences and bad experiences with vendors. This just flat out isn't
worth all the heat on the list. Can we please get back to productive
discussion of RV's and their systems >>
I feel this has been productive. I am the very trusting type and have never
compared what AS charged me compared to what the catalog price was. I have now
started to compare because of this thread. I have just ordered a very big $
avionics part from them and called both Ga & Cal to confirm the price after
Van's told me they beleive the quoted price is lower than Spruce can buy it
from the vendor in their opinion.
Bernie Kerr, 6A instruments and engine bay, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Carroll Bird <catbird(at)taylorelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another primer fitting question |
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
>
Is there any logical reason why I could not install my primer
> fittings in the top ports. Sure would make installation a lot easier.
>
Thats where I installed the primer lines on my -4. I took both 1/8"
plugs out and shined a light in the bottom hole. I could see the light
through the top one. HOWEVER I haven't flown yet or run my engine. Will
report on this when I have more knowledge.
Carroll Bird, -4 Painting now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
Don't worry about it John..many postings are duplicated because it is much
more efficient than going through the thousands of listings on some
subjects.
I dealt with Aerotronics. You can not beat these guys. Talk to Martin.
They will not haggle about prices. They put a flat markup on everything,
and it is far more competitive than anyone else. For example, my GPS/COMM
(Garmin GNC250XL) was $2800 from Spruce, and $2500 from Aerotronics. Not
only that, but they are very helpful. They will give you post sales support
until things are working. They really take care of their customers. I
would not even think of buying any avionics from anyone else. (Other than
Rocky Mountain) They will do any level of work you want. If you buy radios
and such, they can wire the harness and leave you leads if you like, or they
will build your whole panel. You can't go wrong..
Check out http://www.aerotronics.com
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Finish Kit
>
>There is probably something I'm missing because I'm a neophite at this
>computer game, but I dialed up the archives under instruments and found
>that there isn't enough hours in a day to read all the listings. So at the
>risk of being critized, could someone tell me where I can get the best
>instruments and radio stack for the buck for my IFR panel? I had planned
>on just odering out of Aircraft Spruce's catalogue, but recent listings
>have made me take second thoughts. Should I put the stack together myself
>or is it best to order it as a package?
>Thanks for any input.
>By all means don't archive.
>
>John Lee
>Waiting for engine
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
> 'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty
> good specs for a smaller glide slope antenna in AeroElectic
> Connection, but I don't see any exact specs for the vor
> antenna. I'm going to mount it on top of my vertical stab.
> Does anyone have measurements for this?
I fabricated the wingtip VOR antenna, per the dimensions in the
AeroElectric Connection. I am using a standard LOC/GS splitter, to feed the
VOR/LOC and GS inputs on my Terra radio. It works great! I've been able to
tune VOR signals over 90 miles away. I did use thicker material than what's
specified in the plans. The .020 material was just too flimsy.
I've been told that using the wingtip antenna would place me 1/2 wingspan
off of the centerline on an ILS approach, but I've never noticed it. And it
was very cheap to build!
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Broken Arrow, Ok
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
Absolutely, you must buy this tool. It is far better than any mushroom type
set. I did two rivets with my mushroom set, and then bought the swivel set.
It works great on curves, flat areas, everywhere. Do not compromise your
planes appearance by not spending the extra cash on this tool.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.doitnow.com/~rv8er
Finish Kit
>
>OK,
> So I'm about to start riveting the top skin on the rear of my RV6QB.
>I've been putting it off, because even on the flat parts I have riveted, I
>occasionally make some marks from not having perfect alignment with the
>rivet set on the surface. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to really have
>this in spades when I get to the curved skin on the top of the fuselage.
> Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can help
>some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
>the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
>Miller McPherson
>RV6QB Tucson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCruiser1(at)aol.com |
I have the 1/4 inch drill. Be sure and order model 1412 as it runs at 3,600
RPM. The faster speed is perfect for aluminum. No regrets on the money
spent.
Gary Gembala
RV8 ( tail feathers)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill & Kathy Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
John -
At a bet, you just opened an even bigger can of worms than the "primer
wars".
FWIW, I feel that I got good service and prices from Van's on King
avionics - they also are able to work with you a little more than most
dealers on how much work content you can do yourself on Silver Crown stuff.
(King requires their dealers to do all of the installation on this - Van
will flex just a little here - call and talk to them directly.) Prices were
competitive with Eastern Avionics, Chief, & Aircraft Spruce (& it lets my
personal favorite aircraft mfr. make a couple bucks). Eastern did, however,
provide one tidbit of advice that I appreciated & took advantage of - I'd
been planning a KX-155 and KX-125 set-up (save $ over two -155's) - they
pointed out that the KLX-135 GPS/COM is practically the same price as the
KX-125 NAV/COM...!
For instruments, there's a pile of good choices & sources out there. I
ended up with Westach primarily for engine instruments because they can be
internally lit - I just don't like the appearance of post lights.
Fiber-optic lights with instrument rings are also available, though - may
have been a $-effective answer. Flight instruments are mostly RC Allen &
United Instruments - same issues. Van, A/S, & Chief are all pretty close
together on pricing (not a surprise, really). I had hoped to get a
discounted "package deal" from A/S or Chief by ordering the whole panel all
at once - package quote ended up being the sum of the catalog prices.
Disappointing, but I guess it wasn't a big enough order to really get their
attention. Van's has one big advantage on airspeed indicator - they'll
pre-mark it for airspeed ranges (correctly!) at no extra charge.
Have fun with all the responses - sure hope you can sort some good advice
out of the flood!
Bill & Kathy Peck - RV-6A(Q) airframe pretty well together, finishing kit
& engine "on the way"..
-----Original Message-----
From: John H Lee <borgny(at)rconnect.com>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 6:14 AM
Subject: RV-List: Instrument Panel
>
>There is probably something I'm missing because I'm a neophite at this
>computer game, but I dialed up the archives under instruments and found
>that there isn't enough hours in a day to read all the listings. So at the
>risk of being critized, could someone tell me where I can get the best
>instruments and radio stack for the buck for my IFR panel? I had planned
>on just odering out of Aircraft Spruce's catalogue, but recent listings
>have made me take second thoughts. Should I put the stack together myself
>or is it best to order it as a package?
>Thanks for any input.
>By all means don't archive.
>
>John Lee
>Waiting for engine
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 external power jack |
>
>I just received the Piper type male power plug and female jack with the
>intentions of installing them via a relay to allow external power hookup
>in case the ole electron tank craps out. (also known as a BATTERY).
>Now, I didn't realize how HEEUUUUUGE these things are! Egads...they seem
>more fitting an installation in a Peterbuilt heavy hauler versus an RV!
>Placing that big ole
>thing on the aircraft skin just makes me cringe at the mere thought.
>Any other ideas for where to put it?
>
Brian,
The way I figure it there are two times one might need an external power
plug. To boost to start with a dead battery or for convenient charging
(charging is very inconvenient on a six, I suspect less so on an eight).
My solution is to rely on propping for a dead battery. Very easy if you
know how (on taildraggers) and if the starter gear is not engaged with the
added benefit of being free although you may have to find knowledgeable
help.
For charging I wired a cigar lighter receptacle on the panel hot through a
fuse to the battery. I have found this is perfectly adequate for charging
and the lighter receptacle should be handy for powering various accessories.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6Q Baffels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 2/14/99 9:32:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, bsgray(at)ntplx.net
writes:
<< I don't quite understand. I know for a fact that there are hundreds of
plexi
windows mounted in Glasairs every year with vinylester resin. The only
problem
any Glasair builder has reported was with the clear nav light covers, (real
thin
cheap plexi) and that only amounted to some minor crazing. So I don't really
understand your bad experience. >>
The only problems I have seen with Vinylester and Plexiglas occur when the
outgassing compounds during cure are allowed to build up in close proximity to
the acrylic in sufficiently high concentrations. This would not likely occur
when merely bonding windows into composite shells but may when bonding areas
on the RV canopy fairing with the canopy closed. Good ventilation is the key
here.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Stall warner and finishing photos |
Listers,
I've added a couple of stall warner photos to my web site. I've also
added some photos of spinner attachment and gear leg fairing
fabrication/installation.
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Thanks Greg for this advice. I too made the decision to screw down my
floors on Saturday. I have a 6a with the outside steps on both sides.
It just seem important to be able to check up on these every now and
then. With the floor riveted down there is no way you can do this.
Dan DeNeal
working on the insides of a 6a
Hoopeston, IL
---Greg Young <gyoung@cs-sol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Gary,
>
> I mounted my seat floor and baggage compartment floor with screws and
> nutplates. Like you, I had no particular reason at the time other
than it
> seemed like it might be useful.
(snip)
> It's a fair amount of extra (and some will argue, unnecessary) work
at a
> time when you're anxious to get the fuselage nailed together. It was
worth
> it to me but your mileage may vary.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
> RV6 N6GY (reserved) finishing kit
>
> >
> > I am in the process of trying to decide whether the extra work to
use
> > nutplates for the baggage and seat floors on my QB6 is worth the
> > effort. I am
> > not worried about the extra weight and have a hard time judging
whether to
> > permanently seal those areas. Please tell us how your (and others
> > that may be
> > flying) efforts worked out and if you would do it again. Thanks
>
> > a search of
> > the archive didn't really answer my questions).
> >
> > Gary Palinkas
> > Parma, Ohio
> > RV-6 QB
> > 198RV (Reserved)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Flush swivel rivet set question |
I wouldn't set a rivet on my project without it. It's a worthwhile
investment.
-Larry
RV-8, ailerons
email: larry(at)bowen.com
web: http://larry.bowen.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Miller McPherson
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 1:50 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Flush swivel rivet set question
>
>
> OK,
> So I'm about to start riveting the top skin on the rear of my RV6QB.
> I've been putting it off, because even on the flat parts I have riveted, I
> occasionally make some marks from not having perfect alignment with the
> rivet set on the surface. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to really have
> this in spades when I get to the curved skin on the top of the fuselage.
> Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can help
> some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
> the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
> Miller McPherson
> RV6QB Tucson
>
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
Do any of you using wingtip antenna also have strobes mounted out on the
tips? If so, have you experienced any problems with electrical noise or
interference from the strobes? If not, did you do anything special in the
way of shielding? What is the spacing between your strobe wires and your
antenna leads? Are you running just one strobe power supply or do you have
separate supplies mounted at each location?
Vince
RV-8A
-----Original Message-----
From: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com <MLaboyteau(at)aol.com>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: vor antenna
>
>
>> 'm interested in making my own vor antenna. I see pretty
>> good specs for a smaller glide slope antenna in AeroElectic
>> Connection, but I don't see any exact specs for the vor
>> antenna. I'm going to mount it on top of my vertical stab.
>> Does anyone have measurements for this?
>
> I fabricated the wingtip VOR antenna, per the dimensions in the
>AeroElectric Connection. I am using a standard LOC/GS splitter, to feed the
>VOR/LOC and GS inputs on my Terra radio. It works great! I've been able to
>tune VOR signals over 90 miles away. I did use thicker material than what's
>specified in the plans. The .020 material was just too flimsy.
> I've been told that using the wingtip antenna would place me 1/2
wingspan
>off of the centerline on an ILS approach, but I've never noticed it. And it
>was very cheap to build!
>
>Mark LaBoyteaux
>RV-6A N106RV
>Broken Arrow, Ok
>MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stalled RV-4 project |
I have an RV-4 project that has stalled. I have the tail and wings done
and the fuselage ready to skin. I also have many tools. I need to do
something with the project. Either sell or find some help to complete.
I could be very flexible. Need offers or suggestions.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Knoll <tripod(at)vvm.com> |
Hi Listers,
This has been a topic on several occasions.
Recently there was a good article on the AVWeb. Since it prints out at 14
pages, and with due respect for the archives I will give you and them the
address.
<http://www.avweb.com/articles/liabhome.html>
BFK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
Bob Skinner wrote:
>
>
> >Using a Lycoming O-360, where should the starter and master relay go? My
> >battery is forward of the stick as per plans, and I was also wondering about
> >the routing of the positive wire to the relays.
> >Carey Mills
>
> Carey,
> I like to have both the master and starter relay close to the battery and
> on the inside of the cockpit.
**snip***
Do master/starter relays ever go bad?? Sure would be easier to replace
if on the firewall side :
)
Jerry Calvert
Edmond ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
>I just ProSealed my access covers, with no gasket, and using stainless
>allen head cap screw. I then went around each screw head with ProSeal
>making sure not to get it in the hole for the allen wrench.
>
>Russell Duffy
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
I hate to ask a dumb question, but what do you do if you need to get into
the tank to replace sender etc.???? Is there a better alternative to
sealing the tank accsess covers than proseal??? I am on finish kit now and
will soon need to make this decision. I don't want leaks but.......
Thanks....
Larry RV-6A finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
Doug,
That's way too small.....I have a 12 gal Craftsman that runs a lot! I drill
four holes & then it runs! (Loud too!) Next time I get a 33 gallon
minimum! Although there a number of nicely priced 25 gal units
available....compromise maybe.
Larry RV-6A
> I found a little 2.5
>gallon compressor for about $170. It's nice and small, but I don't know if
>its too small.
>
>Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowen.com> |
| Subject: | Stalled RV-4 project |
I suggest you go to Sun-n-Fun or get a ride in an RV or meet with other
local builders to get that inspiration up.
-Larry
RV-8, ailerons
email: larry(at)bowen.com
web: http://larry.bowen.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Steinman
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:06 AM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: Stalled RV-4 project
>
>
> I have an RV-4 project that has stalled. I have the tail and wings done
> and the fuselage ready to skin. I also have many tools. I need to do
> something with the project. Either sell or find some help to complete.
> I could be very flexible. Need offers or suggestions.
>
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
> ---------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | how high will it go |
Listers,
Just returned from a high altitude flight with my RV-6. In an attempt to
set a Canadian National Altitude record for C1b (1100lbs to 2200lbs)
aircraft I climbed to 25,840' establishing an absolute ceiling for my
aircraft as well. The flight was done VFR with a special waiver from
Transport Canada. I had to file a CVFR flight plan and obtain a flow
control number from ATC. The world sure looks small from there. Must of
been some optical trick or O2 starvation, but I could swear the wings
got shorter and shorter as I climbed higher:) OAT was -36F. The manifold
pressure was 10"HG and running 2700rpm. Flight from wheels up to wheels
down was one hour. For a brief time I was probably the highest RV pilot
in the world. Once I download the datalogger I will know for sure just
how high I got.
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com> |
I am curious as to why you suggest mounting the starter contactor on the
firewall. My thinking is that both should be as close to the battey as
possible because the wire between the two relays is "live" whenever the
master is on. It is true that it is switchable, but every inch of it is
a potential for a short circuit of giant proportions. I realize that if
installed properly, the probablility of this is very small, but all other
things being equal, why not put them both close to the battery??
Bruce Green
<<< writes:
> I suggest the starter contactor go on the forward side of the
> firewall . . . anywhere in upper left quadrant of firewall
> convenient to wire routing between starter and battery
> master contactor. Battery master needs to be a close to
> battery (+) terminal as practical so as to minimize length
> of "unprotected and unswitchable" wire between batter and
> contactor . . . as a practical matter, it's easy
> to keep this wire under a foot long.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
The 2.5 gallon compressor would really be too small. It would run constantly.
Would it work for you--yes to a very limited degree. These things are used for
staple guns and nail guns which use a small volume of air. A rivet gun, while
not thirsty, will use more. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 external power jack |
And just where did your think these huge jacks comes from??? They ARE truck
connectors.
>
>>Now, I didn't realize how HEEUUUUUGE these things are! Egads...they seem
>>more fitting an installation in a Peterbuilt heavy hauler versus an RV!
>
>
>>Placing that big ole
>>thing on the aircraft skin just makes me cringe at the mere thought.
>>Any other ideas for where to put it?
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
Replaced one at Oskkosh in about 30 years.
Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: master/starter relays
>
>Bob Skinner wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Using a Lycoming O-360, where should the starter and master relay go?
My
>> >battery is forward of the stick as per plans, and I was also wondering
about
>> >the routing of the positive wire to the relays.
>> >Carey Mills
>>
>> Carey,
>> I like to have both the master and starter relay close to the battery
and
>> on the inside of the cockpit.
>**snip***
>
>Do master/starter relays ever go bad?? Sure would be easier to replace
>if on the firewall side :
)
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond ok -6a wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
Larry,
I had a small seeping fuel leak around some of the screws holding on the
access plate of my RV-6A. I removed the tank, made a new cork gasket
and coated both sides with fuellube and tightened it back down with 8-32
socket head screws. No leaks, and I don't believe I would have much
problem getting the access plate backoff if needed. I would be hesitant
to use proseal only for that reason. As adhesive as that stuff is you
could end up destroying your access plate trying to get it off.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW 22.5 hours
Larry Rush wrote:
>
>
> >I just ProSealed my access covers, with no gasket, and using stainless
> >allen head cap screw.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com> |
If noise is a super critical concern it is possible to used nitrogen
tanks to drive your rivit gun. At a field nearby a few years ago, a B-25
had run off the runway and that is how the mechanics were doing the
repairs. They were running both rivit guns and drills. I believe that
is how the pit crews at the car races power their tools also. I have no
idea about the cost and would have to think painting would be out of the
question, but it would eliminate any noise problems.
Bruce Green
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
Listers:
Can anyone tell me the published weight difference between the 0-360 and the
0-320 Lycoming?
Doug
===========
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
715-386-1239
dougweil(at)pressenter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: tachometer cable |
Depending on your opinion of ACS, you can order one from them for 26.50. Look
on page 327 of your catalog. I had one made a few weeks ago. Looks like good
work but I haven't tested it.
Dave Beizer
RV6a inst panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
| Subject: | Tachometer cables |
Aircraft Spruce makes custom length tach cables. 1-800 824-1930
Eustace Bowhay
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)shuswap.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another primer fitting question |
----------
> From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com>
> To: RV Mailing list
> Subject: RV-List: Another primer fitting question
> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 10:42 PM
>
>
>
> I bought all the stuff from Wicks to install a 4 port (all cylinders)
> engine priming system. In all the pictures and planes I have seen, the
> primer fittings are installed on the lower side of the intake port where
Gary:
You can use the top of the cylinders since you are not using them for fuel
injection.The reason that you see most installations on the bottom is that
has been the standard way of doing it over the years. Some of the older
cyclinders did not have the ports machined out on the top.
The only comment I have is that you would normaly take your manifold
pressure of the top of the right rear cylinder. This is done to keep any
fuel or contaminates from entering your MP line. However the lower port has
to be used in the case of fuel injection so the routing of the MP line
should be such as to keep fuel from getting into the MP guage.
Another option and one that is very commonly used is just to prime the top
three cylinders and use the other for manfold pressure .
You can use either copper or stainless lines. In the event that one of
these lines broke it does not create a hazard as no fuel can escape
because in the case of a hand primer the pump is in and locked or in the
case of solenoid priming it will be closed. The only problem is that
cylinder would be sucking some additional air and running a bit leaner.
Eustace Bowhay Fuselage 6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil France" <nfrance(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Harold aircraft fibre glass parts |
I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has fitted one piece fibre glass
gear leg and intersection fairings from Harold Aircraft co.,on an RV6.
Particularly about what methods they used to secure them to the legs , or
any difficulties encountered etc.
Thanks
Neil France.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ebundy <ebundy(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
My Lycoming data pack shows the following: 0-320 A&E series - 244#. B&D
series - 255#. 0-360-A 265# 0-360-F 270#.
Ed Bundy - RV6-A First flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)cwix.com
http://home.cwix.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>Can anyone tell me the published weight difference between the 0-360 and
the
>0-320 Lycoming?
>
>Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
Does anyone know the "ready to fly" weight of an IO-360 (complete with all
accessories except prop)?
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)idacom.hp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: J P Instruments |
I'm in favour of supporting the underdog with legal defense funds
in cases such as this, where the action is so unfounded or appears
to be only a tactic to hinder competition. However, it doesn't do
anything to reduce the cost of litigation, it just changes how we
pay for it. (That is, we contribute to legal defense funds, rather
than have the cost tacked on to the price of aviation products.)
I think that a more effective thing to do is to use our collective
power as consumers, by boycotting, and our freedom of speech, by
communicating our thoughts and feelings about the subject to the
plaintiffs and to various media. Someone suggested that AvWeb be
notified, for example, and I think that's an excellent idea. I
also support a boycott of JPI's products.
Tedd McHenry
-6 tail/building workshop
Surrey, BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Stalled RV-4 Project |
>I have an RV-4 project that has stalled. I have the tail and
wings done
>and the fuselage ready to skin. I also have many tools. I need
to do
>something with the project. Either sell or find some help to
complete.
>I could be very flexible. Need offers or suggestions. Kansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
Are these flying weights or shipping weights?
-----Original Message-----
From: ebundy <ebundy(at)cwix.com>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight
>
>My Lycoming data pack shows the following: 0-320 A&E series - 244#. B&D
>series - 255#. 0-360-A 265# 0-360-F 270#.
>
>Ed Bundy - RV6-A First flight 11/20/96 ebundy(at)cwix.com
>http://home.cwix.com/~ebundy@mci2000.com/
>
>>Can anyone tell me the published weight difference between the 0-360 and
>the
>>0-320 Lycoming?
>>
>>Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Palm-Top GPS Moving Map(response) |
In a message dated 2/14/99 11:33:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
fliier(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< It appears you but the Garmin receiver in combination
with the windows CE software plus the CE device. Interesting product for
driving,
but for flying you could get a dedicated device that has the aviation
database,
draws the moving map WITH AIRSPACES, and gives you airspace alerts. The
dedicated
handhelds also give you vertical navigation to help you know when to start
descending in that hot airplane you're building. On top of that are the E6B
calculations (fuel burn, winds aloft, etc.) >>
you didn't look close enough -they have a VFR pilot option -of course it costs
more, but has airspace and navaid overlay along with airport info, etc. and
you don't have to buy the gps as part of the package... look at the website
again... it will also figure weight and balance, e6b functions, and as a bonus
-since you have a computer (with optional modem...)you could carry the thing
to a phone line and access duats, check your email, etc. along with playing
tetris when you get weathered in somewhere. do that with your dedicated
aviation map ;)
scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
There are lots of variants, with weight differences as much as 25 pounds.
The O320E2D is 286 lbs while the O360A1A is 290 lbs. Source: Lycoming
Operator's Manuals.
Dennis Persyk 6A finishing kit
Hampshire, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Weiler <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight
>
>Listers:
>
>Can anyone tell me the published weight difference between the 0-360 and
the
>0-320 Lycoming?
>
>Doug
>
>
>===========
>Doug Weiler
>Hudson, WI
>715-386-1239
>dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
There are very few holes that require larger bits than 1/4 inch. If you can
get a 1/4" drill that is smaller than the 3/8" then that's the one I'd
choose. I prefer having a compact, small as possible, keyless chuck drill.
Mine is an inexpensive Central Pnuematic #220 3/8" and I am quite pleased
with its operation over the past four years. The barrel is 1 9/16" diameter
and the chuck is 1 1/2" diameter. Both came from Harbor Freight at about
$29 + $8.
Tom Barnes -6 canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: Adrian Chick <adrianchick(at)home.com>
Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 9:53 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sioux drill
>
>I think I'm going to buy one of these Sioux drills so that I
>will be really cool. I see they are offered in either 3/8
>or 1/4. How about some pro's and con's for the different
>sizes?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
I am installing the pop rivets in the aft part of the F631 cabin frame. I
am planning on leaving every other out & installl sertnuts later & use #6
screws throught the canopy later to attach. Van;s calls for 1 1/2 spacing
on the pop rivets & 2 1/2 on the pop rivets for the plexiglass. With my
change I would have a pattern that is the same as the forward half.
thanks
Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
YES YES YES, DO GET THE AVERY SWIVEL/FLUSH RIVET SET WITH THE RUBBER BOOT!
BEST $$$$ (About $34.)I SPENT ON TOOLS FOR SURE....AS YOU CAN SEE I AM
SOLD! MY WIFE CAN EVEN USE IT AND DO A NICE JOB.....SHE IS NOT VERY
MECHANICAL EITHER.
LARRY , RV-6A FINISH KIT
>
>OK,
> So I'm about to start riveting the top skin on the rear of my RV6QB.
>I've been putting it off, because even on the flat parts I have riveted, I
>occasionally make some marks from not having perfect alignment with the
>rivet set on the surface. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to really have
>this in spades when I get to the curved skin on the top of the fuselage.
> Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can help
>some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
>the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
>Miller McPherson
>RV6QB Tucson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: (no subject) |
Just got this message from someone wanting an RV-4. Please respond
to him (DogFlite(at)aol.com) not me.
> From: DogFlite(at)aol.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 21:46:36 EST
> Subject: (no subject)
>
> Hi.
>
> Do you know of anyone selling an RV-4? I'm from Vancouver, where I flew for
> Horizon, but now I'm in Hawaii with Continental. Looking for information on
> how much a moderate time vfr plane would be.
>
> Hope to hear back soon.
>
> Mike Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | ray sheffield <ray(at)triplet.net> |
I purchased a 1/4 in. drill from Avery's for $105 and its the best for half the
price.
rv-6a finishing kit
Adrian Chick wrote:
>
> I think I'm going to buy one of these Sioux drills so that I
> will be really cool. I see they are offered in either 3/8
> or 1/4. How about some pro's and con's for the different
> sizes?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <rv8er(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 flap fitting |
Jon, I am at the same point as you except maybe a little more confused. Did you
ever get any replies? I guess I'm most confused about the order here. Do you mount
the flap brace and flap hinge first before the bottom skin or just wait until the
bottom skin is riveted on?
Greg
RV-8 80081
JRoss10612(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have read several posts in the list archives regarding flap trimming &
> fitting. The RV-8 builders manual is quite vague in this area. If anyone can
> offer any sage advice regarding flap fitting, especially with regard to the
> RV-8 it would be most appreciated.
>
> Questions:
>
> I am correct that the top skin that is trimmed on the RV-8 flap to the bend in
> the trailing edge?
>
> Has anyone trimmed the lower skin?
>
> What clearance is optimum when the trimming is completed, about 1/8" to 3/16"
> between fuselage and the flap skin?
>
> Did you mark the rear wing skin where the outboard edge of the flap sits, then
> carefully measure inboard? If not, what method did you use for marking before
> trimming?
>
> The F-872 C flap fairing is installed after the flaps are fitted/trimmed and
> rigged. Did anyone have difficulty fitting the fairing as depicted in DWG 43?
>
> Did you have any interference problem with the leading edge of the flap and
> the flap brace with the flap in the fully retracted position?
>
> Many thanks,
> Jon Ross RV-80094
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <rv8er(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
Larry,
One thing I did (all be it rather expensive) is to use NAS sealed nut plates
~$3.50 each. There is no path for the fuel to wind around the screw treads. Also
in my old Orndoff videos George spoke of some gasket sealant sold by ASC that
could be used on the cork, I've yet to look it up again but I plan to do
everything possible to keep from prosealing the "inspection" covers on. I have
also yet to finish my tanks and test them, so don't put too much weight on my
opinions.
Larry Rush wrote:
>
> >I just ProSealed my access covers, with no gasket, and using stainless
> >allen head cap screw. I then went around each screw head with ProSeal
> >making sure not to get it in the hole for the allen wrench.
> >
> >Russell Duffy
>
> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>
> I hate to ask a dumb question, but what do you do if you need to get into
> the tank to replace sender etc.???? Is there a better alternative to
> sealing the tank accsess covers than proseal??? I am on finish kit now and
> will soon need to make this decision. I don't want leaks but.......
> Thanks....
>
> Larry RV-6A finish kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Slider frame width -6 |
I'm concerned about the width of the canopy frame WD-640. According to SC-2
section E-E' the frame should be inside the longeron by 1/16 to 1/8 inch.
At the back of the canopy frame the edge clearance is okay but in the middle
and front, it bulges outside the longeron by as much as 1/8" on each side.
The width of the longerons at the F-604 is narrow by 1/16" (42 3/16).
Is the overlap a big deal? Will the canopy skirts hide the problem?
Or should I bend (in) the frame with some pipe clamps.
It seems to me that bending the front of the frame along with an equal
amount to the roll over bar wd-641, would fix things.
Thanks in advance for your comments and suggestions.
Tom Barnes -6 slider
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
>I am curious as to why you suggest mounting the starter contactor on the
>firewall. My thinking is that both should be as close to the battey as
>possible because the wire between the two relays is "live" whenever the
>master is on. It is true that it is switchable, but every inch of it is
>a potential for a short circuit of giant proportions. I realize that if
>installed properly, the probablility of this is very small, but all other
>things being equal, why not put them both close to the battery??
Because I like to bring the alternator b-lead connnection to
the system via the starter cable by attaching a b-lead fuse
to the hot side of the starter contactor. This minimizies the number
of noise-laden, high current conductors brought into the cockpit.
This also reduces the number of fat wires brought through
the firewall. This is illustrated in wiring diagrams shown
in Appendix Z to our book which you may download at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z8.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
>
>Do master/starter relays ever go bad?? Sure would be easier to replace
>if on the firewall side :
)
MODERN starter contactors should last a VERY long
time. Battery master contactors are not highly
stressed in ways that degrade them so they
should be good for hundreds of service hours
(given average airplane is flown under 50
hours a year - this should translate to 5+
years).
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vor antenna vs. strobe noise |
>Do any of you using wingtip antenna also have strobes mounted out on the
>tips? If so, have you experienced any problems with electrical noise or
>interference from the strobes? If not, did you do anything special in the
>way of shielding? What is the spacing between your strobe wires and your
>antenna leads? Are you running just one strobe power supply or do you have
>separate supplies mounted at each location?
For strobe installations where power supply is in fuselage
and a twisted trio of wires runs from power supply to each
strobe head, the potential for radiated or magnetically
coupled noise from wires in wings is limited to a "pop" that
may be audible on the audio from your VOR receiver.
If care is taken NOT to ground any of stobe tube wiring
at the wing tip letting the shield on the supplied wire
do it's job, then the potential for problems is very
small. No special separation of leads is necessary.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcnu93945(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | twisted rv6 rudder |
guys, my rudder ended up with a 3/4" twist to the left at the top. Is this
fly-able or must I start over. Please tell me its fly-able.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Parker43rp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another primer fitting question |
I used the injector ports for my primers on cylinders 1,2, and 4 and the
priming works great for me on my RV-6/O-320/Ellison/.
Ray Parker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 external power jack |
>>I just received the Piper type male power plug and female jack with the
>>intentions of installing them via a relay to allow external power hookup
>>in case the ole electron tank craps out. (also known as a BATTERY).
>
>>Now, I didn't realize how HEEUUUUUGE these things are! Egads...they seem
>>more fitting an installation in a Peterbuilt heavy hauler versus an RV!
>>Placing that big ole
>>thing on the aircraft skin just makes me cringe at the mere thought.
>>Any other ideas for where to put it?
You ought to see the REAL aircraft ground power connector.
Piper pioneered the use of the Cole-Hersee truck connector
on their own product line in a successful bid to reduce
both size and cost of connectors needed for hooking fat
wires into their aircraft electrical systems.
I did an article, "Low Cost Ground Power Jack for Your
Airplane" for Sport Aviation, November 1997, Page 85, which
is also downloadable at
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.Sager" <jsager(at)uniserve.com> |
Listers
Regarding the recent discussion on air compressors, thought this table
from my local experts may be of interest
Portable Compressors[PARA]20 Gallon Tank Speedaire[PARA]5.5
H.P. Speedaire[PARA]3.5 H.P. Speedaire[PARA]2.5
H.P. Campbell[PARA]Hausfeld[PARA]4.5 H.P. Campbell[PARA]Hausfeld[PARA]4
H.P. Coleman[PARA]4 H.P.
Industrial HP
Rating [TAB]3.5 [TAB]2[TAB][TAB] [TAB]1.75[TAB] [TAB]1.75[TAB]
[TAB]2 [T
AB]2
CFM @ 90 PSI [TAB]10.3 [TAB]6.5 [TAB]5.5 [TAB]5.8
[TAB]6.4 [TAB]Approx 6
Life Expect.
Hours [TAB]4,000 [TAB]4,000 [TAB]4,000 [TAB]2,000
[TAB]3,000 [TAB]1,000
Max. Pressure PSI [TAB]135 [TAB]135 [TAB]135 [TAB]125
[TAB]120 [TAB]120
# OF Cylinders [TAB]2 [TAB]2 [TAB]2 [TAB]1 [TAB]2
[TAB]1
Oil Level Site glass [TAB]Yes [TAB]Yes [TAB]Yes [TAB]No
[TAB]No [TAB]No
Solberg HD Air filter [TAB]Yes [TAB]Yes [TAB]Yes [TAB]No
[TAB]No [TAB]No
Duty Cycle [TAB]65% [TAB]85% [TAB]65% [TAB]50%
[TAB]50% [TAB]50%
Cu.ft of
air/dollar[PARA][Canadian] [PARA][TAB]4,000 [PARA][TAB]2,780
[PARA][TAB]
2,440 [PARA][TAB]1,550 [PARA][TAB]2,304 [PARA][TAB]900
Voltage [TAB]230 [TAB]115/230 [TAB]115/220 [TAB]115/220
[TAB]115/220 [TA
B]115
Bottom line, they really don't recommend Coleman unless you just want to
blow up your tires on the weekend. I get the impression the only reason
they sell Coleman and Campbell Hausfeld is to compete with the mega stores.
They do all the warranty work in house. BTW, my 2.0hp Speedaire on 220
works just fine.
Jim Sager
Chilliwack BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6junkie(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Harold aircraft fibre glass parts |
I have them. Nothing you couldn't make yourself. Watchout when dealing
with Jerry. He is not the most reliable/responsive person in RV-land. I would
NEVER deal with him again (1.5 years to get wing tips and gear leg fairings)
Gary Corde
RV-6 N211GC - NJ
<< I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has fitted one piece fibre glass
gear leg and intersection fairings from Harold Aircraft co.,on an RV6.
Particularly about what methods they used to secure them to the legs , or
any difficulties encountered etc. >>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "taborek" <taborek(at)pathcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how high will it go |
Terry,
Congratulations on your high altitude flight. Could you provide further
info on any special measures you took to reduce drag or weight, to increase
thrust or fit oxygen etc.
Ron Taborek RV-4 Fitting O-320 Toronto
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
<< Where does one usually purchase Fuel Lube for sealing the tank access
cover? >>
Aircraft Spruce is where I got mine. ~$20 for enough to do your RV, with
enough left over to do 20 more.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Sport Engines |
They are not really into email and websites...he had one, but I don't know
what it is...check the RV Yeller pages...just give him a call, he will chat
with you all you want..
Paul Besing
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:54 AM
Subject: RV-List: Aero Sport Engines
>
>Does anyone know if Bart Lalonde of Aero Sport Engines in Canada has a
>E-mail address????
>
>Thanks,
>Larry RV-6A finish
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
Doug, in refering to the lycombing operators manual for the 0-320
the weights run from 268 lbs for the E2D,E3D,E2G to 285 lbs for the D1F,
D2F. This includes the carb,mags, spark plugs, ignition harness baffles,
tach. drive,starter and generator (alternator) with mounting brackets.
The I0-320 series run from 280 t0 294 lbs.
If you need the weight for a specific model # let me know and I will look it
up. Sorry I do not have the specs for the 0-360
Ken C-FKEH RV6
Salmon Arm B.C. Beautiful sun today 35 degrees
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Weiler <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 10:30 AM
Subject: RV-List: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight
>
>Listers:
>
>Can anyone tell me the published weight difference between the 0-360 and
the
>0-320 Lycoming?
>
>Doug
>
>
>===========
>Doug Weiler
>Hudson, WI
>715-386-1239
>dougweil(at)pressenter.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Duffy" <rv8(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Sport Engines |
>Does anyone know if Bart Lalonde of Aero Sport Engines in Canada has a
>E-mail address????
>
>Thanks,
>Larry RV-6A finish
I believe their address to be: proair(at)mail.ocis.net
Russell Duffy
Navarre, FL
RV-8, sn-80587 (Wings Finished!!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Harold aircraft fibre glass parts |
You may order 1 piece leg fairing from Vans. I did!
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV6junkie(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Harold aircraft fibre glass parts
>
>I have them. Nothing you couldn't make yourself. Watchout when dealing
>with Jerry. He is not the most reliable/responsive person in RV-land. I
would
>NEVER deal with him again (1.5 years to get wing tips and gear leg
fairings)
>
>Gary Corde
>RV-6 N211GC - NJ
>
><< I would be pleased to hear from anyone who has fitted one piece fibre
glass
> gear leg and intersection fairings from Harold Aircraft co.,on an RV6.
> Particularly about what methods they used to secure them to the legs , or
> any difficulties encountered etc. >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven B. Janicki" <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 external power jack |
I have the Military style jack and plan to mount it internally. This avoids
making a hole in the fuselage skin. My plan is to have it accessible with
the canopy open.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 5:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8 external power jack
>
>>>I just received the Piper type male power plug and female jack with the
>>>intentions of installing them via a relay to allow external power hookup
>>>in case the ole electron tank craps out. (also known as a BATTERY).
>>
>>>Now, I didn't realize how HEEUUUUUGE these things are! Egads...they seem
>>>more fitting an installation in a Peterbuilt heavy hauler versus an RV!
>
>>>Placing that big ole
>>>thing on the aircraft skin just makes me cringe at the mere thought.
>>>Any other ideas for where to put it?
>
> You ought to see the REAL aircraft ground power connector.
> Piper pioneered the use of the Cole-Hersee truck connector
> on their own product line in a successful bid to reduce
> both size and cost of connectors needed for hooking fat
> wires into their aircraft electrical systems.
>
> I did an article, "Low Cost Ground Power Jack for Your
> Airplane" for Sport Aviation, November 1997, Page 85, which
> is also downloadable at
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
> < When deprived of facts, >
> < our fantasies are generally >
> < much worse than reality. >
> ================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
John H Lee wrote:
>
"tell me where I can get the best instruments and radio stack for the
buck for my IFR panel?"
I just spent several weeks getting prices from all the catalogs and
Vans via email. I took my list out to the Norfolk, VA FBO, Piedmont
Aviation, (lots of big business jets) and he beat most of the prices
by $50 to $100. What ever you buy, you will still have to get an
avionics "wiring harness" from the seller. If the local FBO does it,
he is right there to fix it. Do try your local shop. If their prices
are not competitive, move on.
I am building a RV-6A tip-up and have spent the last several months
(evenings) on countless iterations of panel layouts. I have used
PanelPlanner software to "speed" the process.
About PanelPlanner. <http://www.panelplanner.com/> It is not
necessary, but it is nice ($99-$199). It has RV6 panel templates, but
they do not show all the interferences behind the panel. I used the
"generic equipment" to create the interferences. My version ($199)
allows me to create a .DFX file with all the hole cutting data. A
local sheet metal shop with a NC laser cutter machine can take the
.DFX file and generate the cutting instructions for all the holes,
repeat "all the holes", and the basic outline shape. The price will be
$115 and the accuracy will be .001 inches.
Try to look at as many panels under construction as possible. Watch
out for those interferences!!!
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, ready to lay those shins on the
fuselage skeleton.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slider frame width -6 |
I found lots of bending, twisting, and pulling to be required. At one
point I was jumping up and down on a section while my grandfather
was pulling another section. After lots of this sort of thing it fit.
BTW, the old Jim Cone newsletters have great instructions for sliders.
The plans instructions I got ('96ish) were just slightly better than
useless... (out of sequence, called for a fitting procedure that was
physically impossible, etc).
Tim
On 15 Feb 99, at 16:49, Tom Barnes wrote:
From: Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net>
Subject: RV-List: Slider frame width -6
Send reply to: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> I'm concerned about the width of the canopy frame WD-640. According to
> SC-2 section E-E' the frame should be inside the longeron by 1/16 to 1/8
> inch. At the back of the canopy frame the edge clearance is okay but in
> the middle and front, it bulges outside the longeron by as much as 1/8" on
> each side. The width of the longerons at the F-604 is narrow by 1/16" (42
> 3/16). Is the overlap a big deal? Will the canopy skirts hide the
> problem? Or should I bend (in) the frame with some pipe clamps.
>
> It seems to me that bending the front of the frame along with an equal
> amount to the roll over bar wd-641, would fix things. Thanks in advance
> for your comments and suggestions. Tom Barnes -6 slider
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Browsing: http://www.matronics.com/archives List Support
> Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Other Email
> Lists: http://www.matronics.com/other
> --
>
>
>
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Tim Lewis
N47TD (reserved) RV-6AQ #60023, engine completed and tested
Springfield VA
http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a
timrv6a(at)iname.com
----------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 external power jacks? |
On the RV-8 with the battery in the back, you have to take out the panels of
the baggage compartment to have access to put a charger on the battery. I
would like to rig up something that would attach to the baggage compartment
panel (near the battery and master relay) that would accept the battery
charger "clamps". I imagine something that you could clamp the two battery
charger clamps to, that on the back side would go to the battery (or the hot
side of the master relay) and the ground. Any ideas on how to do this? Any
reason I shouldn't do it? Mark Goldberg N982RV 28 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | spruce(at)deltanet.com (Aircraft Spruce & Specialty) |
| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce reply |
Dear Jim Sears,
I have read your latest response directed to "listeners" in the RV group on
the web. I am one of those listeners and wanted to give you a brief
response.
First, I do understand that you have a little respect for our company or
me. You have made that very clear. I stand by our product quality, our
service, and our prices. I have never claimed that our company is perfect.
We've made mistakes in the past, and despite our efforts to avoid them, I
am sure they will happen in the future. If they do, we will resolve them
immediately. As for pricing, our policy is clear. If any competitor is
currently selling the same item for less, we will match the price. In
response to your comment that our price on an engine part was "gouging"
($76 vs. $58), we are not factory direct on many engine parts as Mattituck
is; we have to buy through a distributor at higher cost. Still, we would
gladly have matched their price on request and absorbed the difference;
that is our price guarantee.
If you have found Wicks to be superior to ours in terms of service and
prefer to use them instead, you are certainly entitled to do so. They are
a good company who buys a lot from Aircraft Spruce and we buy some items
from them as well. As for the service that you described as the kind you
like, I can assure you that Aircraft Spruce also delivers superior service
to many, many customers every day.
I think that you have made your point of view quite clear to all interested
parties on the RV newsgroup and if you do not feel we deserve your
business, I would not encourage you to give it to us. We will continue to
work hard to provide excellent products, prices, and service for every
customer who choosed Aircraft Spruce as their supplier.
Sincerely,
Jim Irwin
President, Aircraft Spruce
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY CO.
225 Airport Circle
Corona, CA 90270 U.S.A.
Tele: 909-372-9555
Fax: 909-372-0555
Order Desk: 800-824-1930
Customer Service: 800-861-3192
Email: info@aircraft-spruce.com
WWW: http://www.aircraft-spruce.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Slider frame width -6 |
> I'm concerned about the width of the canopy frame WD-640.
As well you should be.
Based on past postings about this to the list (check the archives)
Re-bending the frame is common. I think it is necessary to do that to
get the best fit, however it is harder than you might think. The main
problem is that bending it in one place tends to change the shape
everywhere else. Also when I started I had a tendency to over-bend it,
then have to go back and re-adjust back to near-correctness. So try to
sneak up on it.
Others have claimed success using 2 x 4s and bench vice. I would be a
little nervous about doing it that way myself as it's possible to kink
the tubing. I modified a H/W store conduit bender and used that. The
modification consisted of grinding out the inside dia. of the bender
with a die grinder/rotary file to a slightly larger diameter since the
OD of the frame is slightly larger than thinwall conduit. After
grinding it out I smoothed it with a die grinder/scotch-brite wheel.
Another hint is to trace the shape of whatever part of the frame you are
about to bend onto a sheet of paper on the floor (or just the floor -- I
still have marks on my garage floor from that!) before bending that
part. Makes it a lot easier to gauge how much you have bent it without
having to put it back on the plane every time.
I found that bending the front bow to match the roll bar was tricky too
-- it's tough to know exactly where you need to bend it to to bring the
whole thing in line -- more often than not I'd bend it one place and it
would then be off everywhere else. Remember when doing this that you
can also cut off the bottoms of the tubes and/or add spacers at the
bottom to vary the height once everything else is right.
After several evenings of messsing around, I got it pretty close but
still ended up having to shim a little at the front bow. I used varying
length strips of .016, curved to match the frame and layered together.
Once I got the shims right I glued them together with proseal, then
ground the edges smooth and painted them the finish color. The result
was some nice "tapered" shims. This was a fair amount of fussy work but
looks a lot better than a bunch of separate shims would. However,
getting the front bow to match the roll bar perfectly may be overkill
since the fiberglass fairing can be made to cover a multitude of sins.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "V. E. Welch" <vwelch(at)knownet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 external power jack |
Military Style? Do you have a pic?
Vince
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven B. Janicki <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8 external power jack
>
>I have the Military style jack and plan to mount it internally. This avoids
>making a hole in the fuselage skin. My plan is to have it accessible with
>the canopy open.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 5:05 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8 external power jack
>
>
>
>>
>>>>I just received the Piper type male power plug and female jack with the
>>>>intentions of installing them via a relay to allow external power hookup
>>>>in case the ole electron tank craps out. (also known as a BATTERY).
>>>
>>>>Now, I didn't realize how HEEUUUUUGE these things are! Egads...they seem
>>>>more fitting an installation in a Peterbuilt heavy hauler versus an RV!
>>
>>>>Placing that big ole
>>>>thing on the aircraft skin just makes me cringe at the mere thought.
>>>>Any other ideas for where to put it?
>>
>> You ought to see the REAL aircraft ground power connector.
>> Piper pioneered the use of the Cole-Hersee truck connector
>> on their own product line in a successful bid to reduce
>> both size and cost of connectors needed for hooking fat
>> wires into their aircraft electrical systems.
>>
>> I did an article, "Low Cost Ground Power Jack for Your
>> Airplane" for Sport Aviation, November 1997, Page 85, which
>> is also downloadable at
>>
>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>> ////
>> (o o)
>> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
>> < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
>> < When deprived of facts, >
>> < our fantasies are generally >
>> < much worse than reality. >
>> ================================
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slider frame width -6 |
Tim Lewis wrote:
>
>
> I found lots of bending, twisting, and pulling to be required. At one
> point I was jumping up and down on a section while my grandfather
> was pulling another section. After lots of this sort of thing it fit.
>
> BTW, the old Jim Cone newsletters have great instructions for sliders.
> The plans instructions I got ('96ish) were just slightly better than
> useless... (out of sequence, called for a fitting procedure that was
> physically impossible, etc).
>
Tim,
Are Jim's newsletters available anywhere for downloading?
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: twisted rv6 rudder |
> guys, my rudder ended up with a 3/4" twist to the left at the top. Is this
> fly-able or must I start over. Please tell me its fly-able.
Sounds like you just built your first "practice part"...! :-}
I would say it's probably fly-able but that's only because you can get
away with a lot. I personally would make a new one.
If that's too much to swallow, I suggest moving on rather than building
a new one now. Once you get the rest of the plane done you will have a
better idea of how bad "too bad" is. Plus by then there will probably
be a new improved ez-bake version of the rudder that takes 10 ninutes to
build.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tachometer cable |
try calling your local automotive or truck parts supplier
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com> |
Bob,
one more question on this subject, my understanding of master relays is
that while they will carry a high load of current, they are not made to
switch on and off with a high current load. I had a starter relay stick
once and used the master relay to shut it off, but my concern is that if
the starter wire were shorted, that could represent and extremely high
current load. Would there be a danger of not being able to break the
connection in the master relay? If not, then the length of wire in
between the two relays may not be truly switchable.
Bruce Green
On Mon, 15 Feb 1999 16:49:38 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
writes:
>
>
>
>>I am curious as to why you suggest mounting the starter contactor on
>the
>>firewall. My thinking is that both should be as close to the battey
>as
>>possible because the wire between the two relays is "live" whenever
>the
>>master is on. It is true that it is switchable, but every inch of it
>is
>>a potential for a short circuit of giant proportions. I realize that
>if
>>installed properly, the probablility of this is very small, but all
>other
>>things being equal, why not put them both close to the battery??
>
> Because I like to bring the alternator b-lead connnection to
> the system via the starter cable by attaching a b-lead fuse
> to the hot side of the starter contactor. This minimizies the
>number
> of noise-laden, high current conductors brought into the cockpit.
> This also reduces the number of fat wires brought through
> the firewall. This is illustrated in wiring diagrams shown
> in Appendix Z to our book which you may download at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/errata/z8.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
> < When deprived of facts, >
> < our fantasies are generally >
> < much worse than reality. >
> ================================
>
>
>
---
>
---
>
---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A Wheel Base Dimensions |
Mine is 86" plus 1" extra on each side for a total of 88". I'm missing the
empanage and some other things so it will probable be wider when loaded up.
Dave Beizer
RV6a inst panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how high will it go |
> Listers,
>
> Just returned from a high altitude flight with my RV-6. In an attempt to
> set a Canadian National Altitude record for C1b (1100lbs to 2200lbs)
> aircraft I climbed to 25,840' establishing an absolute ceiling for my
> aircraft as well. The flight was done VFR with a special waiver from
> Transport Canada. I had to file a CVFR flight plan and obtain a flow
> control number from ATC. The world sure looks small from there. Must of
> been some optical trick or O2 starvation, but I could swear the wings
> got shorter and shorter as I climbed higher:) OAT was -36F. The manifold
> pressure was 10"HG and running 2700rpm. Flight from wheels up to wheels
> down was one hour. For a brief time I was probably the highest RV pilot
> in the world. Once I download the datalogger I will know for sure just
> how high I got.
>
> --
> Terry Jantzi
> Kitchener ON
> RV-6 C-GZRV
Now that is seriously NEAT. Congratulations Terry.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce reply(note to Jim Irwin) |
Jim,
Thank you for your interest in your customers on the list. I think this thread
has been helpful to the builders on the list and their friends because we
have been made more aware of things to look for from dealers. I also hope that
it has made you aware of some of the negative feelings out here and will work
to take care of the specific problems that have surfaced.
Maybe you can reiterate to your employees to always quote the current price of
the item so that we will always know if the current price is different than
the catalog we are using. It should also be your policy, if not already, that
the price is firm if it is quoted over the phone and even if the item is
backordered that the price will not be changed from the quoted price at the
time of the order.
I enjoy your catalog and use it regularly as a handy reference.
We in the homebuilding business need you and you need us.
Bernie Kerr, 6A panel and engine bay, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry McKee" <lmckee(at)cnetech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
>I am planning to purchase a Cambell Hausfield, 26 gal., 5 hp. belt
>drive, oil. In my research I found the oil frees to be loud although
>cheaper. And being that I am building in my garage/residental area
I have a 5hp 60 gal tank I got from Harbor Freight (the cheap tool store)
and it's served my needs - yes it's pretty noisy for a residential area - if
you decide to get one mount it outside you shop/garage and build an
insulated shed that'll keep the noise tolerable for both you and your
neighbors.
Larry
RV 6A
Finishing wings
eschew obfuscation
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: twisted rv6 rudder |
Put the rudder on the plane and fly it -- you may be lucky enough to
NOT need a rudder trim tab! You probably neglected to verify the jig
alignment while drilling or riveting the rudder skin. Not a big deal.
Most RVs need a small rudder trim tab on the left side -- you simply
built one into your rudder! We have an RV-6A in our hangar with your
'problem' and it simply does not need rudder trim; the turn coordinator
ball stays centered (over 450 hrs on that plane). Don't buy a new
rudder just yet.
Marshall Dues
RV-6 N243MD
David Wayne Hooks airport (DWH)
Houston, Y'all
Mcnu93945(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> guys, my rudder ended up with a 3/4" twist to the left at the top. Is > this
fly-able or must I start over. Please tell me its fly-able.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christopher Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 external power jacks? |
I used to be involved with small open wheel race cars which have tiny
batteries and no alternator to save weight. Everybody used an auxiliary
battery connector to start their engines or else you would never finish the
race. The connectors of choice are miniature versions of the type that are
used on electric fork lift trucks. The most common size for race cars is
rated for 50 amps DC. Each connector half measures about 0.6" x 1.4" x 1.9"
long. The silver alloy plated contacts accept up to 6 gauge wire but we used
to trim a few strands from 4 gauge and use heat shrink tubing for extra
strain relief. This would easily handle the starting current even with
inefficient Lucas starters. They are so handy that I have them mounted on
anything that runs on 12 volts. I get mine from Pegasus Auto Racing
Supplies. You can request a free catalog at www.execpc.com/~pegasus . Each
connector half costs $7.19 with two terminals. They are "hermaphroditic"
which means each half is identical but they are designed so that they can
not be plugged in with reverse polarity (sounds impossible but it works).
There is also a larger version rated for 175 amps that accepts up to 1/0
cable. Pegasus also has alot of other neat hardware that works great on
airplanes such as Camlok and Dzus quarter turn fasteners. Much of it is MIL
spec but it's probably best if you don't mention that its going on an
experimental airplane. If they ask, tell them that you are restoring an old
Ralt RT4 Formula Atlantic. In the interest of full disclosure, I should
mention that my wife and I used to own Pegasus, but are no longer involved.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
cjh(at)execpc.com
almost ready to spring for that RV8 standard kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Paulovich <jonkarl(at)worldnet.att.net> |
I see there are industrial 1/4" souxs and smaller palm type that run
nearly $257. (Cleveland), 3600 rpm, and weighs 1.5 lbs OR industrial
1/4" for under $200. and can turn 4500 rpm. I have read the higher rpms
work best BUT are larger and havier. Any thoughts??? bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
>Does anyone know the "ready to fly" weight of an IO-360 (complete with
>all
>accessories except prop)?
>
>Vince
>
The counter weighted crank model IO-360 A1B6 (like in the blue RV-8
prototype) weighs approx. 340 lbs. (minus exhaust system).
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
>I had a small seeping fuel leak around some of the screws holding on
>the
>access plate of my RV-6A. I removed the tank, made a new cork gasket
>and coated both sides with fuellube and tightened it back down with
>8-32
>socket head screws. No leaks, and I don't believe I would have much
>problem getting the access plate backoff if needed. I would be
>hesitant
>to use proseal only for that reason. As adhesive as that stuff is you
>could end up destroying your access plate trying to get it off.
>
There's lots of posts about this in the archives (yea, some of them are
mine).
The covers are not difficult to get off if prosealed on. Just tap a
putty knife around the cover (probably required for the cork gasket
installation also).
The cork gasket does work. Most of the leaks builders have when using
them happen after a period of time (sometimes 1 year, sometimes 5 years).
The nice thing about using proseal is that if installed correctly the
cover is not likely to ever leak, regardless of the amount of time that
passes.
But like many other aspects of building an RV, you, the builder has to
decide. The great thing is this is one of the things that you can even
change your mind on, and do different if you become unhappy with the
first choice.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: tachometer cable |
>I'm looking for a shop that can make a special length mech. tachometer
>cable...
>
>Thanks
>Gary Reynolds
>RV6A on the gear
>
>
Many larger sized citys have at least one shop that does specialized
speedometer/odometer work work for taxi cab, etc., They can custom make
what ever you want. Check your yellow pages.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 external power jack |
Make sure you have a slip on cover to keep the prongs from getting shorted
out from something loose you put in the same area. These will be live when
the master is on(most anytime you are flying). A short by something
metallic, could start a fire, or melt the aluminum of your airplane.
Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact
-----Original Message-----
From: V. E. Welch <vwelch(at)knownet.net>
Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8 external power jack
>
>Military Style? Do you have a pic?
>
>Vince
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steven B. Janicki <sjanicki(at)us.oracle.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 7:36 PM
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8 external power jack
>
>
>>
>>I have the Military style jack and plan to mount it internally. This
avoids
>>making a hole in the fuselage skin. My plan is to have it accessible with
>>the canopy open.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
>>To:
>>Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 5:05 PM
>>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8 external power jack
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>>I just received the Piper type male power plug and female jack with the
>>>>>intentions of installing them via a relay to allow external power
hookup
>>>>>in case the ole electron tank craps out. (also known as a BATTERY).
>>>>
>>>>>Now, I didn't realize how HEEUUUUUGE these things are! Egads...they
seem
>>>>>more fitting an installation in a Peterbuilt heavy hauler versus an RV!
>>>
>>>>>Placing that big ole
>>>>>thing on the aircraft skin just makes me cringe at the mere thought.
>>>>>Any other ideas for where to put it?
>>>
>>> You ought to see the REAL aircraft ground power connector.
>>> Piper pioneered the use of the Cole-Hersee truck connector
>>> on their own product line in a successful bid to reduce
>>> both size and cost of connectors needed for hooking fat
>>> wires into their aircraft electrical systems.
>>>
>>> I did an article, "Low Cost Ground Power Jack for Your
>>> Airplane" for Sport Aviation, November 1997, Page 85, which
>>> is also downloadable at
>>>
>>> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/grndpwr.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>> ////
>>> (o o)
>>> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
>>> < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
>>> < When deprived of facts, >
>>> < our fantasies are generally >
>>> < much worse than reality. >
>>> ================================
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
Dear Miller,
Buy the Avery Swivel Set. I bought mine when I first started on the
empennage and never regretted it. It has made all of the riviting much
easier. There is not a mark on my airplane from a rivit driver
Dick Martin
RV*8
80124 Canopy done,windshied almost, then cowl, and then fly
----------
> From: Miller McPherson <mcphersn(at)u.arizona.edu>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Flush swivel rivet set question
> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 12:49 AM
>
>
> OK,
> So I'm about to start riveting the top skin on the rear of my RV6QB.
> I've been putting it off, because even on the flat parts I have riveted,
I
> occasionally make some marks from not having perfect alignment with the
> rivet set on the surface. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to really have
> this in spades when I get to the curved skin on the top of the fuselage.
> Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can
help
> some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
> the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
> Miller McPherson
> RV6QB Tucson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcnu93945(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stalled RV-4 Project |
I'd look around locally for a partner. I wouldn't sell it. You're pretty far
along, closer than you think to finishing.Having one or two other guys could
be fun. Just think of all the extra goodies you could put in your panel with
the extra resources. J.F. McNulty New Hampshire Finishing
Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tachometer cable |
In a message dated 2/14/99 7:21:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
greynoldsn98(at)mailhost.ind.ameritech.net.with.SMTP writes:
<<
I'm looking for a shop that can make a special length mech. tachometer
cable...
Thanks
Gary Reynolds
RV6A on the gear
>>
Gary, try your local speedometer shop, they should be able to help you out.
Fred LaForge RV-4 So Cal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
Yes they do. After starting to fly my plane, I had to change out three (put
in the fourth) masters before I got one to work the way it was suppose to.
People said that I had a starter for the master etc. If so, the manuf.
mislabeled them.
John C Darby Jr.
RV6 sold, Cessna 210 bought
Stephenville TX
>Do master/starter relays ever go bad?? Sure would be easier to replace
>if on the firewall side :
)
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
> Do any of you using wingtip antenna also have strobes mounted out on the
> tips? If so, have you experienced any problems with electrical noise or
> interference from the strobes? If not, did you do anything special in the
> way of shielding? What is the spacing between your strobe wires and your
> antenna leads? Are you running just one strobe power supply or do you have
> separate supplies mounted at each location?
>
> Vince
I'm using the Aeroflash strobe assemblies that I got from Mark Fredrick,
with the power supplies mounted on each outboard rib. I've got the VOR antenna
in the right wingtip, and my Marker Beacon antenna in the left wingtip. The
only radio interference I get is in the Marker Beacon. However the
interference is from the transponder. Each time the transponder replies, I can
faintly hear it in the MB audio. This has nothing to do with the antenna
location, but is due to the fact that my MB (from RST Engineering) receiver is
mounted just above the transponder.
I'm also using the RST engineering Intercom, and it faintly picks up a
signal off of the power buss from the strobe power supplies charging up. When
the intercom is on, and the strobes are on, I can hear a faint whine from the
strobes, I also get a faint alternator whine when the alternator is loaded up
around 40 amps or more. This problem seems to be isolated to the Intercom. I'm
looking at trying a better filter on the 12 volt input to the intercom. With
the intercom set to "bypass", I don't get these noises.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
Broken Arrow, Ok
The "N106RV Website"
http://members.aol.com/mlaboyteau/index.htm
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Trim Servo In-line Connector |
MAC elevator trim servo users & other "sparky" types,
I'll appreciate suggestions for five wire in-line jack/connector combo
for MAC elevator servo. The Radio Shack connector/jack (p/n's 274-003
and 274-006) kindly suggested by MAC are none the less huge and heavy.
HRS (Hirose Electric Col, LTD) HR10 Series (7mm Push-Pull Connectors),
just shy of 7/16" dia. at 11mm overall and 2 1/4" long, connected,
look great, on p. 90 in Digi-Key catalog Q984, (www.digikey.com), but
the (literally, gold plated) cost-- $40 plus!
Do you have a different suggestion? Simply splicing long cable to the
servo pig-tails doesn't appeal to me as a good practice, or a very
service or assembly oriented solution.
Thanks here for your help,
Jack Blomgren, Red Wing, MN
RV-8 wings due
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Moe Colontonio" <moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
I swear by the thing, but never used anything else. I've never made a ding
with the rivet gun. I recently helped a builder with his wings who had one,
but never used it. I convinced him to give it a try, and he was blown away!
Now he swears by it. This is his 2nd RV, and he never tried using the swivel
set he had bought at the flymart eons ago.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
Subject: RV-List: Flush swivel rivet set question
>
>OK,
> So I'm about to start riveting the top skin on the rear of my RV6QB.
>I've been putting it off, because even on the flat parts I have riveted, I
>occasionally make some marks from not having perfect alignment with the
>rivet set on the surface. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to really have
>this in spades when I get to the curved skin on the top of the fuselage.
> Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can help
>some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
>the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
>Miller McPherson
>RV6QB Tucson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mcnu93945(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: how high will it go |
congrats Terry, Well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! J.F. McNulty N.H. finishing
tail kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)cwix.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slider frame width -6 |
> I'm concerned about the width of the canopy frame WD-640. According to
SC-2
> section E-E' the frame should be inside the longeron by 1/16 to 1/8
inch.
> At the back of the canopy frame the edge clearance is okay but in the
middle
> and front, it bulges outside the longeron by as much as 1/8" on each
side.
> The width of the longerons at the F-604 is narrow by 1/16" (42 3/16).
> Is the overlap a big deal? Will the canopy skirts hide the problem?
> Or should I bend (in) the frame with some pipe clamps.
First suggestion, take a deep breath and accept that the weldment will
drive you nuts. Then, start carefully bending. I am not sure what you had
in mind with the pipe clamps, but I used a large piece of steel angle and
some large c-clamps. It really was no fun, but the end product was worth
it. Once you get the side bars reshaped, something else will be out of
kilter, and so on. Good luck, check the archives on this one.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill & Kathy Peck" <peck(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | control surface locks |
Has anyone come up with an alternative (elegant!) method
of locking control surfaces from inside the cockpit
other than using the seat belt? (& including the rudder)
Bill & Kathy Peck
Two pilots=twice the questions, half? the work, but a good thing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
RV-List message posted by: Al Mojzisik
>
>Call them, they're in the Yeller Pages. They will be glad to charge you $5
>for one. AL
>
although the cover states the cost as 5.00$ i've yet to pay anything for
thier catalog. it is a great tool to have.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: air compressors?? |
>While we're on the subject. . . does anyone know how much CFM a rivet gun
uses
>for one rivet. I'm trying to get an idea on how big of a tank I need. I
have
>limited space but I don't want it filling up constantly. I found a little
2.5
>gallon compressor for about $170. It's nice and small, but I don't know if
>its too small.
sounds like a little nailgun pancake compressor. i have an oil less 20
gallon from sams club. it resides in its own closet. but i get probably get
about 25 stiffner rivits in between runs. got a 3x gun from cleavland. just
seems to me 2.5 is way small, not just for riviting, but what about drilling
and painting?
>Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | 6A F651 upper baggage BH cover |
I am trying to trim the Upper cover for the baggage buckhead. The print
indicates a 1/2 inch overlap over the 652 lower cover (I think). The 651
has a rolled edge on one side. Would it go up or down? I think they want
the flat one to overlap the 652.
Thanks
Don Jordan ~ ~ 6A-fuselage
donspawn(at)juno.com ~ Arlington, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
I think piper has done it that way since the inception of the Cherokee start
contactor on the fwall and master at the rear batt box.
Capt. Steven DiNieri
RV-6A NF,NY
Wings in the works
----- Original Message -----
From: b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: master/starter relays
>
>I am curious as to why you suggest mounting the starter contactor on the
>firewall. My thinking is that both should be as close to the battey as
>possible because the wire between the two relays is "live" whenever the
>master is on. It is true that it is switchable, but every inch of it is
>a potential for a short circuit of giant proportions. I realize that if
>installed properly, the probablility of this is very small, but all other
>things being equal, why not put them both close to the battery??
>
>Bruce Green
>
>
><<< writes:
>> I suggest the starter contactor go on the forward side of the
>> firewall . . . anywhere in upper left quadrant of firewall
>> convenient to wire routing between starter and battery
>> master contactor. Battery master needs to be a close to
>> battery (+) terminal as practical so as to minimize length
>> of "unprotected and unswitchable" wire between batter and
>> contactor . . . as a practical matter, it's easy
>> to keep this wire under a foot long.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)wzrd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vor antenna vs. strobe noise |
Rob whats your experience with the wingtip mounted power supplies with the
homebrew vor antenae.
Capt. Steven DiNieri
RV-6A NF,NY
Wings in the works
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 5:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: vor antenna vs. strobe noise
> For strobe installations where power supply is in fuselage
> and a twisted trio of wires runs from power supply to each
> strobe head, the potential for radiated or magnetically
> coupled noise from wires in wings is limited to a "pop" that
> may be audible on the audio from your VOR receiver.
>
> If care is taken NOT to ground any of stobe tube wiring
> at the wing tip letting the shield on the supplied wire
> do it's job, then the potential for problems is very
> small. No special separation of leads is necessary.
>
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
> < When deprived of facts, >
> < our fantasies are generally >
> < much worse than reality. >
> ================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leo Davies <leo(at)icn.su.OZ.AU> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce reply |
Specialty)
>I think that you have made your point of view quite clear to all interested
>parties on the RV newsgroup and if you do not feel we deserve your
>business, I would not encourage you to give it to us. We will continue to
>work hard to provide excellent products, prices, and service for every
>customer who choosed Aircraft Spruce as their supplier.
>
>Sincerely,
>Jim Irwin
>President, Aircraft Spruce
Dear List,
It may be that US consumers have particularly high standards but I must say
I have always been very satisfied with my service from ACS. They can often
airfreight material to Australia at a price below local sources and I have
never had less than prompt service. I have had prices at odds with the
catalogue price but in the one case where I queeried this I was given a
prompt and adequate explanation. The next edition of the catalogue had the
price I paid.
The aircraft spruce catalogue is a marvellous resource in itself and
building a homebuilt in Australia would be much more difficult if the ACS
catalogue did not exist.
I have met ACS employees who are building RVs and they seemed like
extremely nice folk.
It is possible for anyone to have a bad experience with a company but my
experience with ACS over 20 or more transactions has always been satisfactory.
Just an alternative view.
Leo Davies
(still buying stuff from ACS)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lottmc(at)datasync.com |
| Subject: | Re: control surface locks |
I just use a strong bungee cord to hold the rear stick full back and to the left,
hooked to a flap rod. Works good, so far. (-4)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vor antenna vs. strobe noise |
>
>Rob whats your experience with the wingtip mounted power supplies with the
>homebrew vor antenae.
>
This installation has a greater chance of putting a
power supply "whine" into the VOR audio. Go ahead
and install it and see what happens. If filters
are needed, they're easily added later.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Balbierer <jbalbierer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
There is a thinner version of proseal(mil8802-A) that is used in the
military for access covers. It's easier to release and still provides
a good seal. If you call the company that make the proseal, they may
know where to get it.
John Balbierer
RV-6, N30JB
---smcdaniels(at)Juno.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >I had a small seeping fuel leak around some of the screws holding on
> >the
> >access plate of my RV-6A. I removed the tank, made a new cork gasket
> >and coated both sides with fuellube and tightened it back down with
> >8-32
> >socket head screws. No leaks, and I don't believe I would have much
> >problem getting the access plate backoff if needed.
> The covers are not difficult to get off if prosealed on. Just tap a
> putty knife around the cover (probably required for the cork gasket
> installation also).
>
> The cork gasket does work. Most of the leaks builders have when using
> them happen after a period of time (sometimes 1 year, sometimes 5
years).
>
> The nice thing about using proseal is that if installed correctly the
> cover is not likely to ever leak, regardless of the amount of time
that
> passes.
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lothar Klingmuller <lothark(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how high will it go |
Terry, good show! Keep us informed with some details ( engine-prop,
takeoff weight, and service ceiling [100 fpm climb]). What special
equipment/preparations did you have for your RV? Many of us future RV-6/-6A
flyiers would be interested! Hope you did set a new record - I am rooting
for you. Lothar
>Just returned from a high altitude flight with my RV-6. In an attempt to
>set a Canadian National Altitude record for C1b (1100lbs to 2200lbs)
>aircraft I climbed to 25,840' establishing an absolute ceiling for my
Lothar |||-6A; drilling gear mounts in Lakewood/ Denver, CO |||
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
>
>OK,
> Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can help
>some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
>the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
>Miller McPherson
>RV6QB Tucson
Miller,
Cant comment on the swivel set as Ive never used one. I'm surprised that
nobody has recommended backrivetting this skin on. I backrivet as much as
possible because it produces such a nice job.
On some of my early efforts with conventional rivetting I ended up with
some dings due to lack of skill/ too much air presure. A good way to remove
these dings once youve got them is to use a piece of hardwood dowel as a
punch on the shop head of the rivet, with a shot filled bag on the
manufactured head. One rap on the dowel with a light mallet will usually
remove the ding and bring the rivet flush with the surrounding metal
without harming the rivet. Give it a try, its better than filling the dings
with bondo or just living with them.
Mike Wills
RV4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vor antenna and RST stuff |
Keep the strobe wires at least 6" away from other wires . OK to cross wires
closely at right angles though.
Just for the record, I have a RST Audio Panel with Intercom and RST Marker
Beacon Receiver I built and have used in a Warrior for about 8-9 years. I
experience feed through on the marker reciever and audio panel from
strobes,alternator, and transponder reply also!! Do you suppose the RST
stuff needs more filtering on 14v line.
Note that the interference is pretty weak. I learned to ignore it. This
may sound funny, but I still like the panel and considered building another
one for the new RV-6A. In fact if I run across one nicely built I would
probably but it...... What can I say.....
Larry RV-6A, finish kit
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-
>
>> Do any of you using wingtip antenna also have strobes mounted out on the
>> tips? If so, have you experienced any problems with electrical noise or
>> interference from the strobes?
RV-List message posted by: MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
>
I'm also using the RST engineering Intercom, and it faintly picks up a
signal off of the power buss from the strobe power supplies charging up.
When
the intercom is on, and the strobes are on, I can hear a faint whine
from the
strobes, I also get a faint alternator whine when the alternator is loaded
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve.nichols(at)stoneweb.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
MILLER,
I HAVE USED THE FLUSH SWIVEL SET ON ALL OF THE STABILIZER SKINS. I
WOULD NOT TRADE IT FOR ANYTHING. I DON'T SEE HOW ANYONE COULD HOLD A RIVET
GUN PERPENDICULAR TO THE RIVET. IT COMES WITH A RUBBER GUARD THE HELPS
PREVENT THE SET FROM MOVING AROUND WHILE YOU RIVET.
I DO AGREE THAT BACK-RIVETING IS EVEN BETTER, BUT IT CAN ONLY BE DONE
IN CERTAIN INSTANCES. DEFINITELY BACK-RIVET CONTROL SURFACES.
HOPE THIS HELPS
STEVE NICHOLS
RV-4 EMP ALMOST DONE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
I've been using this set all along. It works great but it gets dirty and I
find that I get black marks around the rivet. Does every one else have this
problem or just me, and how can I clean it. Any ideas?
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB starting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Servo In-line Connector |
>I'll appreciate suggestions for five wire in-line jack/connector combo
>for MAC elevator servo
I spent a lot of time looking for the same thing. The one I liked the best
are the AMP CPC (circular plastic connectors). They can be made splash
proof and can be mounted to the aft bulkhead. You have to buy the
appropriate pins to go with them. I bought the whole set up and then
decided to permanently mate the MAC pigtails to the long wire using butt
spices and heat shrink tubing. It is less serviceable but it could be
argued that it is less susceptible to failure. If the MAC unit fails, I
have plenty of wire left to resplice.
Ross Mickey
9PT 6A finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: control surface locks |
On my -6A, I use a small bungee that I got from Lowe's, I wrap it around the
Captains stick and hook both ends under the control panel. This keeps the
ailerons centered and the elevator full nose down. On the rudder, I found a
neat idea in the archives thanks to Bruce Skinner. I took a piece of 5/32
steel rod from the local hobby shop, bent it into a wide "U" shape, and
drilled a #21 hole in the left rudder stop, and a #21 hole in the left rudder
control horn. These were drilled so that the "U" shaped rod would slip down
into the holes when the rudder is centered. I attached a long red streamer to
this, so as to remind the pilot to remove it before flight, although I don't
think you would taxi very far before realizing that your rudder is stuck! It
works very well, and is very light. I know there may be better ideas out there
than these, but they work ok for me.
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
http://members.aol.com/mlaboyteau/index.html
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MLaboyteau(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel-Garmin Install |
In a message dated 2/15/99 7:07:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, rv8er(at)doitnow.com
writes:
> Aerotronics will get around the "required to install" by selling you a
> little labor in doing the wiring harness. They figure you can do the
> mechanical installation, so they did the "avionics shop" type work, and
tell
> garmin they installed it. This is what they had to do with my Garmin
> Transponder. Garmin just wants to make sure that it is wired properly...
>
> Paul Besing
When I purchased my Garmin GNC-300 from Eastern Avionics, the only wires
they had installed were the main power and ground. The new Garmin panel mounts
are now using the small machined pins and sockets, instead of the Amp type
crimp pins. It is my opinion that these are superior type contacts, it just
requires you to find an avionics person who has the proper crimp tool to crimp
them with! It did include more than enough pins to do the job. On an IFR type
GPS, you also have to input altitude information from the altitude encoder
from the transponder. So there was quite a bit of wiring that still had to be
done, outputs for the CDI, inputs and outputs for the annunciator panel,
altitude information, and inputs and outputs for the COM section. It was my
impression from the salesman at Eastern, that since my aircraft was an
experimental, Garmin didn't have a problem with me doing all of this wiring
myself. Anyway, I got the radio I wanted, and now they have it with a moving
map. Rats. They always come up with something better. Usually right after I've
bought the old one!
Mark LaBoyteaux
RV-6A N106RV
http://members.aol.com/mlaboyteau/index.html
MLaboyteau(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce reply |
It's refreshing to hear a response from a manufacturer (Aircraft Spruce
and Specialty) about the
complaints s they've been hearing. More often than not it seems such
complaints fall on deaf ears, and obviously that is not the case here.
I have used ACS for years, bought a LOT of stuff for my RV from them. I
accept the fact that they are on average a little higher priced than
others, because I like the convenience of having nearly everything I
could want in one catalog. I have run into very few instances of them
not having what I need on-hand, and in fact I have been impressed by how
often they have everything I need in stock and ready to ship the same
day. I have occasionally been "bitten" by a price increase, and I
accept that as a normal part of doing business -- everyone has to adjust
their prices from time to time, and if I get caught in the middle, so be
it. Usually the sales person calls off the price of each item as I name
it, which helps. I have never had any complaints about their service.
One note -- I order from ACS West exclusively. Don't know if my
satisfaction might be tied to that fact...?
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardner, Douglas (GA44)" <Douglas.Gardner(at)IAC.honeywell.com> |
| Subject: | Flush swivel rivet set question |
I have had great success using the "backriveting" method on wing & LE
surfaces using Avery's back set & bucking bar.
The surfaces are perfectly smooth, no hint of a dimple, much faster, and is
easier to do. I plan on using this
method on all surfaces of the fuselage providing clearance is avail for the
set, some 14 inches.
(Although not a swivel set response, I had to add this message)
Doug Gardner RV-8A 80717
Fuselage
Palm Harbor Fla
-----Original Message-----
From: Moe Colontonio [mailto:moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flush swivel rivet set question
I swear by the thing, but never used anything else. I've never made a ding
with the rivet gun. I recently helped a builder with his wings who had one,
but never used it. I convinced him to give it a try, and he was blown away!
Now he swears by it. This is his 2nd RV, and he never tried using the swivel
set he had bought at the flymart eons ago.
Moe Colontonio
moejoe(at)bellatlantic.net
Check out my RV-8 Page at:
http://tabshred.com/moe
Subject: RV-List: Flush swivel rivet set question
>
>OK,
> So I'm about to start riveting the top skin on the rear of my RV6QB.
>I've been putting it off, because even on the flat parts I have riveted, I
>occasionally make some marks from not having perfect alignment with the
>rivet set on the surface. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to really have
>this in spades when I get to the curved skin on the top of the fuselage.
> Does anybody know if the flush swivel rivet set from Avery's can help
>some with this problem? It's expensive, but I'd pay a lot to cut down on
>the dings in my skin. Has anybody had any experience with this set?
>Miller McPherson
>RV6QB Tucson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Strobe Requirments |
-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Walker <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 9:08 AM
Subject: Strobe Requirments
>Are Strobe(s) required on expermintal air planes for night VFR, or IFR
>operation? Can someone recommend a small self contained unit that will fit
>neatly in the fiberglass tip of the V-stab?
>
>Thanks
>Tommy
>6A Fuselage
>Ridgetop, TN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
>
> ... could someone tell me where I can get the best
>instruments and radio stack for the buck for my IFR panel?
This seems to be something I end up doing entirely too often, that is,
every time I get a different airplane. I have found that prices tend to be
pretty close together for a given piece of equipment from all the different
vendors/distributors that it ends up being more of a question of what to
put into the panel than who to buy it from.
First step is to define mission profile. You say that you want and IFR
panel but that covers a whole range of sins. Are you talking about very
basic IFR, "I am going to put a B-777 to shame," or something in between?
Money will also very likely enter into the discussion since it is possible
to spend more money on the panel than you did on the rest of the airplane.
Space is also an issue. I managed to cram a full IFR panel into the normal
panel space of an RV-4. There were some trade-offs where I spent a bit of
panel space to save some money (DG + CDI vs. HSI for instance). I also
ended up with a mix of 2 1/4" and 3 1/8" instruments. In my RV-4 I
absolutely had to get Terra radios and the Datatest 300 GPS because their
1/2 width form factor was the only thing that would work in my panel.
So, break your panel down into three general areas: flight instrumentation,
engine instrumentation, and, for want of a better word, avionics. What do
you need?
Flight instrumentation is pretty straight forward. There is not much
choice in the area of pitot/static instruments other than:
* 2 1/2" vs. 3 1/4";
* internal vs external lighting;
* whether or not to get a digital instrument, e.g. the Rocky Mountain
Microencoder.
The big question here is whether to use electric or vacuum gyros. I opted
for electric for the following reasons:
1. vacuum pumps fail with entirely too much regularity;
2. backup power for electric gyros is easier to come by;
3. vacuum plumbing is bulkier than electrical wiring.
Engine/fuel instrumentation is the area where you will be faced with the
most choices. On one end of the spectrum you can get away with only two
guages: a fuel guage and a do-everything-including-wipe-your-nose engine
instrument. For me this approach was a necessity if I was going to fit
everything into the panel. Audio Flight Avionics provided me with the
latter instrument. (http://www.afavionics.com/)
If you like lots and lots of steam guages, the catalogs will help you more
than I can. If you like high-tech steam guages, check out Electronics
International. Their fuel guage is the best I have found anywhere.
Here is a candidate for the "simplest/smallest IFR radio package" catagory:
Apollo SL-60 GPS/Comm
Terra TN-200D nav receiver with glideslope
Terra Tri-Nav-C VOR/ILS indicator
Terra TRT-250D transponder
anyone's blind encoder
RST kit 3-lite marker beacon receiver (at $99 you can't go wrong)
an intercom (I like my low-end PS Engineering)
The SL-60 is certifiable for IFR enroute and terminal operations. If you
want to toss in nonprecision GPS approaches (no need for an ADF now) I
would swap the SL-60 for a GX-60 which nets you a moving map display and
approach capability.
Why the II-Morrow radios? Their comms allow you to listen to the standby
frequency while still tuned to the main frequency. This lets you do things
like listen to ATIS or AWOS without having to leave approach control's
freq. I haven't seen another product with that feature which elimiates the
primary need for a second panel mounted com in my book.
Here are some web sites that may help you:
http://www.iimorrow.com/
http://www.afavionics.com/
http://www.trimble.com/avionics/sport.htm
http://rkymtn.com/
http://www.rst-engr.com/index.html
Good luck and let me know if I can be of more help.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael A. Pilla" <mpilla(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Flush rivet set |
I forget who taught me this, but I place a layer of masking tape over
the shiny metal part of the flush swivel set, cutting it off right
around the rubber surround. No black marks around the rivet. The tape
gets a bit dirty and wears off after a while, but it is trivial to
replace. I've not detected any problems with the actual setting of the
rivet.
Michael Pilla
Dan Wiesel wrote:
>
>
> I've been using this set all along. It works great but it gets dirty and I
> find that I get black marks around the rivet. Does every one else have this
> problem or just me, and how can I clean it. Any ideas?
> Dan Wiesel
> RV6a QB starting finishing kit
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | steve.nichols(at)stoneweb.com |
| Subject: | Fw: Strobe Requirments |
TOMMY,
GO TO VAN' WEB SITE AND CLICK ON ACCESSORIES CATALOG.
GO TO LIGHTING OPTIONS AND THEN GO TO PAGE 19 AND 20. HERE THERE IS A LIST OF
LIGHTS AND STROBES. THERE IS ALSO A GOOD DIAGRAM OF WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR
NIGHT FLIGHT.
STEVE NICHOLS
RV-4 EMP.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
>
> I DO AGREE THAT BACK-RIVETING IS EVEN BETTER, BUT IT CAN ONLY BE
DONE
>IN CERTAIN INSTANCES. DEFINITELY BACK-RIVET CONTROL SURFACES.
> HOPE THIS HELPS
> STEVE NICHOLS
> RV-4 EMP ALMOST DONE
Steve,
You'll be surprised at just how much of the visible stuff can be
backrivetted. I back rivetted the top skins on my wings, and virtually all
of the fuse skins. Back rivitting is also advantageous if you have an
unskilled rivetting partner. Anyone can be taught to hold a flat piece of
steel on top of a flush rivet head.
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Hoskins" <Imagine21_glenn(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Strobe Requirments |
I installed the miniature aeroflash strob in my luscombe on the vertical
stab. Three years no problems and every says it is very visible even in the
daytime.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Walker <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 2:03 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fw: Strobe Requirments
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Tommy Walker <twsurveyor(at)email.msn.com>
>To: RV LIST
>Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 9:08 AM
>Subject: Strobe Requirments
>
>
>>Are Strobe(s) required on expermintal air planes for night VFR, or IFR
>>operation? Can someone recommend a small self contained unit that will
fit
>>neatly in the fiberglass tip of the V-stab?
>>
>>Thanks
>>Tommy
>>6A Fuselage
>>Ridgetop, TN
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
> "tell me where I can get the best instruments and radio stack for the
> buck for my IFR panel?"
Van's has the best prices for most (but not all) of this stuff. They
get OEM pricing for a lot of stuff including King radios and no one can
touch them on some of it. Also, Vans prices for some of the avionics
include the required harnesses, which will be usually charged extra for
at other places.
I've found the local Avionics shop to be quite competitive, and willing
to beat other prices and even try to match Vans prices. If there is an
Avionics shop in your area you might try going in there with the
catalogs and dickering with them. Buying from them has the advantage of
being able to take stuff back to a local place in case of a problem.
Also when you come in with a problem or call for advice later they might
be more willing to help.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (engine/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | N426BBRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tachometer cables |
Builders
For your information and consideration may I submit the following.
Lycoming O-320 and O-360 engines, when viewed from the back or accessory case
end, the tach drive turns clockwise, except of course those engines with an L
prefix that turn counterclockwise.
Tachometer and speedometer cables are made of stranded wire that is
twisted either RIGHT or LEFT. The automobile tachometer shops that make
cables almost exclusiveyly have Right hand twist cable.
That means that if you have an automobile cable co. make up your tach
cable it will in all likelyhood have a RIGHT hand twist which will have a
tendency to "unwind" when installed in your Lycoming engined RV.
I am not implying that it will not work IF you have a cable installation
that has no severe bends and is properly lubricated. I know of one RV on my
field that had his cable break, and upon examination, it was a RIGHT hand
twist and it was not lubricated very well. He also had a fairly severe bend
in the housing due to the cable being too long.
What I am saying to you is, ask your cable builder if he has LEFT hand
twist cable before you deal with him. If he doesn't you might want to shop
around.
If you buy tach cables from Aircraft supply vendors, ask them about the
twist. Don't be surprised if they don't know what you are talking about.
Bill Bishop
N426BB
RV6A 305 hours
DWH Houston, TX.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Slider frame width -6 |
> At the back of the canopy frame the edge clearance is okay but in the middle
> and front, it bulges outside the longeron by as much as 1/8" on each side.
Best is to have it fit inside. I had to cut the frame and reweld it as one bow
was longer than the other.
Getting a really good fit of the frame, lock and blocks is key to getting a good
installation. I got in too big a hurry to get the plexi installed. At least I
had not riveted it so was able to back up and fight the frame.
Another issue is to get the frame to fit low enough that the rear skirts do not
have to be compound curved but have the same shape as the F6112 they lay
against.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Engine mounted
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <himsl(at)wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: spar / fuel tank nutplates |
CAUTION!
If I read you correctly you are talking about dimpling the main spar. My
plans(RV8) specifically say to NOT dimple the main spar as dimpling will
severely deform it.
Please reread your plans and/or contact Van's for clarification. If I
misinterpreted your note, my apologies.
The rear spar I dimpled and then finish countersunk.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Wings
>
>I am finalizing the tank mounting holes and nutplates .. with a Phlogiston
>spar. After searching the archives, it looks as though everyone has machine
>countersunk the holes of the aft facing spar flange. The plans call for
>either a dimple or c'sink here. Does anyone have any experience with
>dimpling this?? I would prefer a dimple (I think) because it leaves more
>material in the spar and leaves a larger mating surface for the dimpled tank
>skin. However, my test pieces show that the underlying (spar web) dimple
>needs to be larger than the skin dimple for the skin to fit flush, and I
>wonder about forming a dimple in the anodized spar material. So what's up??
>What is the coolest way to deal with this??
>
>Larry E. James
>Bellevue, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
A week ago there was a guy in Florida who had or has a set of tools for sale.
If there still available, would you please post them again.
T
hanks Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer cables |
This argument has gone on for years. Tach and speedometer cables are wound
with several layers. Some are right hand... some are left hand. But both
directions are in every cable. It might be a little stronger if the outer
layer is wound in a certain way but the big problem is gentle curves, well
lubed casing. You cannot blame the winding direction if it hasn't been
lubed, if it has been kinked, if the raduis of the bends are too sharp.
-----Original Message-----
From: N426BBRV(at)aol.com <N426BBRV(at)aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 5:09 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tachometer cables
>
>Builders
>
> For your information and consideration may I submit the following.
>Lycoming O-320 and O-360 engines, when viewed from the back or accessory
case
>end, the tach drive turns clockwise, except of course those engines with an
L
>prefix that turn counterclockwise.
> Tachometer and speedometer cables are made of stranded wire that is
>twisted either RIGHT or LEFT. The automobile tachometer shops that make
>cables almost exclusiveyly have Right hand twist cable.
> That means that if you have an automobile cable co. make up your tach
>cable it will in all likelyhood have a RIGHT hand twist which will have a
>tendency to "unwind" when installed in your Lycoming engined RV.
> I am not implying that it will not work IF you have a cable
installation
>that has no severe bends and is properly lubricated. I know of one RV on
my
>field that had his cable break, and upon examination, it was a RIGHT hand
>twist and it was not lubricated very well. He also had a fairly severe
bend
>in the housing due to the cable being too long.
> What I am saying to you is, ask your cable builder if he has LEFT hand
>twist cable before you deal with him. If he doesn't you might want to shop
>around.
> If you buy tach cables from Aircraft supply vendors, ask them about
the
>twist. Don't be surprised if they don't know what you are talking about.
>
>Bill Bishop
>N426BB
>RV6A 305 hours
>DWH Houston, TX.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flush rivet set |
In a message dated 2/16/99 1:55:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com writes:
<< I've been using this set all along. It works great but it gets dirty and I
find that I get black marks around the rivet. Does every one else have this
problem or just me, and how can I clean it. Any ideas? >>
Got this idea from Scott McDaniels I beleive. Tape a strip of black
electricians plastic tape on the head and you will get about 50 -100 rivets
before you need to change it out.
Bernie Kerr
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vincent Himsl <himsl(at)wsu.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: T-407 Stiffener Ring |
Hello,
I did not use Pro Seal on the stiffener ring as per the Orndoff video.
My plans said it is not necessary as the cork gasket takes care of that
area. However, the list abounds with those who think otherwise so scan
some of the comments and make your decision. Worst is you'll use up more
Pro Seal than you intended.
As a nod to Murphy's Law, I will not permanently seal the tank access plate
until I am absolutely sure I don't have to go back in there.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8 Wings
At 06:03 AM 02/14/1999 , you wrote:
>
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I was contemplating the T-407 fuel tank stiffener ring and how it attaches
>to the T-803 rib, and noted that while the instructions from Van's do NOT
>indicate that the T-407 should be riveted to the rib with Pro-Seal, while
>Geo. Orndorff video DOES suggest that Pro-Seal be used.
>
>My spouse commented in a dreamy tone how attractive Mr. Orndorff's southern
>accent is. I wrinkled my brow and explained to her that he was talking to
>ME.
>
>I would like your comments, not regarding Mr. Orndorff's accent, but the
>use of Pro-Seal in attaching the stiffener ring to the inboard tank rib.
>
>Yours in all seriousness,
>
>Nick Knobil
>Bowdoinham, Maine
>Chief on skis in the middle of snowless field
>Cherokee from hell for sale
>RV-8 in basement deep in the future
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: master/starter relays |
>
>Carey,
> I like to have both the master and starter relay close to the battery and
>on the inside of the cockpit.
> . . . But, if the starter relay is mounted on the
>aft side of the firewall, it would seem to lessen a potential "trouble
>spot". (Boy, I hate being at odds with Bob Nuckolls.)
How come? If you have a reasoned approach based on the
physics, then go for it! My reason is base more on a whole
system approach where the alternator b-lead architecture
figures into the decision . . . if your alternator b-lead
comes into the cockpit separately, then no reason the
starter contactor can't be in the cockpit too.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobes(was vor antenna) |
Larry Rush wrote:
>
>
> Keep the strobe wires at least 6" away from other wires . OK to cross wires
> closely at right angles though.
>
**snip**
I can see keeping the wires from the powerpack(s) to the strobe unit
away from other wires, but is there a noise problem with the wire from
the cockpit switch to the strobe powerpack??
I,m using aeroflash units mounted on the front of each spar behind the
landing lights and no wingtip antennas. I will have a wire to each
powerpack from the switch that is goes through the wing. The landing
light power wire will run right beside it to the end of each wing. Is
this a problem??
Jerry Calvert
Edmond ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | donspawn(at)Juno.com |
>I need to find out which way is up for the upper half of the baggage
>cover. One side has a roll or bend ( like we do the skins for
overlap). The drg
>does not show it up or down. I think it goes up & the other (flat side)
>over laps the F651, The 1/2 inch overlap of the 652 on the 651 is also
not shown. I assumed that from the full size view of the harness guides.
>
>Don Jordan ~ 6A fuselage ~ Arlington,Tx ~ donspawn(at)juno.com
===============================================
AS IT TURNS OUT, THE THE ROLL OR BEND GOES DOWN....TOM
No one on the list got back to me on this, so I asked the factory. Just
for the guys behind me, you may want to make note of this.
Don Jordan ~ ~ 6A-fuselage
donspawn(at)juno.com ~ Arlington, Tx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Kitz <jkitz(at)greenapple.com> |
| Subject: | Re: control surface locks |
Bill & Kathy Peck wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone come up with an alternative (elegant!) method
> of locking control surfaces from inside the cockpit
> other than using the seat belt? (& including the rudder)
> Bill & Kathy Peck
>
Dave Ross from northern Ohio makes a nice lock that he sells. Maybe
someone can locate his address.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: un-subscribe |
Please unsubscribe I can't handle the volume of messages
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim & Joan Wolf" <JJA.WOLF(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trim Servo In-line Connector |
>
>I'll appreciate suggestions for five wire in-line jack/connector combo
>for MAC elevator servo.
>
>
I used two molex type connectors. One each three pin and two pin. Small
size: .062
By slightly elongating the hole in the horizontal stab spar web, the
connectors will fit through one at a time, making the whole system
removable.
I have never had a problem with reliability of the Molex connectors on
another (not RV) homebuilt but if someone has a different experience or
opinion I would like to hear it. Haven't flown with a Mac servo
installation yet.
Jim Wolf
RV6
Long Beach, Ca
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "R.L. Glass" <rlglass(at)alaska.net> |
| Subject: | Anchorage, Alaska area RV builders |
The next EAA Chapter 42 meeting will be at my house on Tuesday, February
23 at 7 p.m. Come inspect the progress of my RV-6QB and talk with other
RV-6 and -8 builders. Of course, fellow RVers are welcome any time for
on-site inspections. Call for directions.
Roy Glass 907-345-2433.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314(at)azstarnet.com (tom sargent) |
| Subject: | Re: twisted rv6 rudder |
>
>guys, my rudder ended up with a 3/4" twist to the left at the top. Is this
>fly-able or must I start over. Please tell me its fly-able.
>
>
My rudder has about 0.2" twist in it. I called Van's and they told
me that was pretty good. They indicated up to about 3/4" was OK. I'd check
with them if I were you. The posting about not needing a trim tab might
just be right!
---
Tom Sargent, sarg314(at)azstarnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | 6/6a Rudder/Brake Pedal Hints |
Thought I'd pass this along to other 6/6a builders....
1) If you use the NACA ducts on the foreward fuse for cabin air, DON'T
permanantly install these babies untill after your final (yep, final..
painted, everything) installation of the rudder/brake pedals. With the vents
permanantly mounted in the "correct" location, getting the pedals in or out is
almost impossible. (If you move the vents up a couple of inches, it might be
easier.)
2) Don't drill the bolt holes to mount the rudder pedals until you've sat in
the airplane. I'm 5'7", so I moved the pedals about 3/4" towards the pilot
from the position marked in the plans. Now that I can sit in the airplane,
the location given in the plans would be much better. Gotta move 'em.
A sidenote... The Orndorffs' finish kit tape is outstanding. The other tapes
were very good, but the finish kit tape is even better.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | control surface locks |
>
> Has anyone come up with an alternative (elegant!) method
> of locking control surfaces from inside the cockpit
> other than using the seat belt? (& including the rudder)
> Bill & Kathy Peck
> Two pilots=twice the questions, half? the work, but a good thing
>
I don't know if you would consider it elegant, but for my RV-6 use a
bungee and a
Y-shaped harness made of 1/8" rope. The two branches of the Y each have a
loop to fit over one of the sticks. The stem of the Y attaches to a small
aluminum bracket with a "keyhole" in it. The keyhole bracket slips over
an AN-3A bolt that is bolted to the side of the vertical support member
between and just aft of the two seats. (Use a short piece of tubing to
hold the head of the bolt away from the support member.)
The bungee is connected to one stick, routed around (forward of) the
throttle support post, then connected to the other stick. This holds the
ailerons and the elevator in the neutral position. If you are flying
a -6A, something else is needed for the rudder. On the -6, the tailwheel
springs hold the rudder just fine.
Mark Nielsen, RV-6
Green Bay, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronald Blum" <fly-in-home(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Puttin' in a Runway - Info found! |
Hi y'all:
I WAS feeling very bad about not having the "building a runway in Illinois"
booklet in my hands when I made previous statements, but by shear luck, I
ran into the person that borrowed the book and now I have it again! Here's
the whole (and correct) scoop.
The booklet is called "Guidelines for Developing a Restricted Landing Area
(RLA)", and it is put out by:
Illinois Department of Transportation
Division of Aeronautics
Bureau of Aviation Education and Safety
One Langhorne Bond Drive
Springfield, IL 62707
(217) 785-8516
(217) 785-4533 fax
The booklet is 40 pages long and has the following chapters and appendices:
1. Introduction
2. Developing a Restricted Landing Area
3. Site Selection for Your Restricted Landing Area
4. Figuring Displaced Threshold
5. Developing the Runway and Taxiway
6. The Restricted Landing Area in Operation
7. Hangars for Private Airstrips
8. Wind Indicators
9. Inexpensive Lighting for Your Restricted Landing Area
10. Tie-downs
Appendices
1. RLA Length
2. RLA Layout
3. RLA Width
4. Displaced Threshold
5. Lighting
6. Windsock
7. Tie-downs
8. FAA 7480 (notice of landing area proposal)
9. State Application
10. Tie-down Rope
11. Turf Seeding
12. RLA Dimensions
13. Planting Turf
If those people that want one would (again) contact me off-line, I'd be glad
to copy it and drop it in the mail (don't forget your snail mail address)
Feeling Gooood to Have It Back,
Ron
FLY-IN-HOME(at)worldnet.att.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Glover" <kage(at)idl.net.au> |
| Subject: | Complaining neighbours-Aerodrome |
G'Day listers
About a year ago there was a thread on the list concerning, a test case,
whereby an airport operator won a court case against a complaining
neighbour. Well, I am now in the same position, and need help. I have
checked the archives, but can't find anything to cover this type of problem.
If anyone can give me the details of the person who won the court case, and
the grounds of the win, I would appreciate it.
Cheers,
Ken (the Gloves are off for this one) Glover
Newcastle - Australia - RV4 VH-MKW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clecoes for wings |
>Will someone that's built both wings "at the same time" please
>respond to me personally?
OK, I'm responding to you personally. Hey, this is getting pretty
regular. Someone's going to get suspicious. :-)
>I'm trying to figure out how many clecos I need.
A bunch, of course. Avery sells you a good number in the RV kit;
but, I found I could have used another hundred. In fact, that would
have helped later on the fuselage. I'm one of those guys who likes a
cleco in every hole to make sure nothing shifts. Overkill, maybe.
>I was thinking of building an "L" shaped jig like a picture I saw from
>one of you.
I had the standard "H" shaped jig; but, I used a longer spar support
than shown in the drawings for mine. The short supports off the "H"
for the one wing affair were just extended past the middle to the other
side to form a "T" on each leg of the jig. I had four such "T"s to
support the wings at both spars. The "T"s have to be long enough
to allow you about 30" in the middle. If you're a good sized person,
allow more room. I'm small and was able to work in a 26" area just
fine. To get the 30", you'll need cross pieces about 48" long. Be
sure to brace those cross pieces and use some strong angle for
the top ones. Two inch steel angle would be excellent. Just make
sure the ends are square with each other. You may have to do some
adjustiing at the bottom ones for the rear spars. No big deal. My
wing supports were crude and did a very nice job.
>If I do this, where I can build them "at the same time", is there
>any reason to skin them simultaneously or isn't this just a waste of
>clecos?
Do each operation on both as if the two were one. The second
wing's times will drop dramatically. When you skin, be prepared to do
both at the same time. Yes, you can rob Peter to pay Paul on the
clecoes; but, it would be so much easier to have that extra hundred.
I did mine with the original kit of clecoes. If I ever build another RV,
I'll order a couple hundred more of the 3/32" clecoes and maybe fifty
more of the 1/8" ones. Remember, I like a cleco in every hole.
My suggestion is for you to go ahead with the plan to build both
wings at one time. It's the smart thing to do. Now that I did both of
mine at one time, I'd never do one at a time.
Jim Sears in KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clecoes for wings |
Whoops! I really did mean to send the note just to Adrian; but, I
guess maybe some of the rest of you out there are getting close to
the wing construction.
Speaking of wing construction, I saw one of the new RV-8 kits this
weekend. Actually, I just saw the wings and tail. For those of you
who have never had to build one of the older kits, you don't know
how good you have it. I couldn't believe how much Van's company
has improved them. You are going to save hundreds of hours of time
in your building time because of the improvements in the first two kits.
I must admit I was impressed. Now, if they could just do something
with those manuals and drawings to get rid of the mistakes in those,
I'd not be so down on Van's. Maybe the RV-8 is better there, too.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Doing mine the hard way. Hope to fly this spring)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
I have a bunch of free time in the Sarasota FL area this weekend. Any
listers in the area that have a project / airplane to show off?
Scott A. Jordan
80331
Fuselage in the mail
Do Not Archieve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Terry Jantzi <tjantzi(at)netrover.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how high will it go (very LONG) |
After completingmy RV-6, I was curious as to what the absolute ceiling
would be. After speaking with Bruce Carter from the Aero Club of Canada,
we also determined that I had an opportunity to set a couple of National
Records at the same time. My aircraft has a fuel injected 180hp engine
with a constant speed propeller. I normally cruise between 7500' and
10500' during cross-country flights. I have crossed over the Rockies at
12500' and circled Mount Robson in British Columbia at summit altitude.
These altitudes are accessible within just a few minutes as the climb
rate at gross weight is about 1800fpm. When flying solo the climb rate
is close to 2400fpm. Some weeks before Christmas 1998, a friend of mine
and I pestered Toronto Centre to let us climb to 18000'. They didn't
quite know how to handle the request but finally gave me a pseudo IFR
clearance of "cleared to the Waterloo airport climbing to and
maintaining FL180". The climb was achieved easily and we were still
seeing 400fpm when we leveled off at 18,000'.
With that little experiment behind me I started the process of getting
permission to fly above Fl180 which is IFR only. I don't hold an IFR
rating at this time. It took several levels of Transport Canada
bureaucracy until I reached the right person. Along the way I got
suggestions like "pack my woolies and head for the North". According to
the CAR's, VFR flight is allowed in Class A airspace only with special
permission from the "Minister". I finally received my waiver in the
middle of January with the comment of "good luck" from Transport Canada.
I had some other requirements to fill before I could attempt the flight.
I needed some way of recording altitude, and my first thoughts were a
barograph from a soaring club. I was put in contact with Fred Hunkeler
who is a glider owner and pilot. He kindly offered to lend me his data
logger which is a digital recorder with a built in GPS receiver and a
very sensitive pressure transducer. I had to fabricate a connection to
the aircraft static system. The data logger has a small static port on
the case. I had determined in the past that my cabin pressure is about
200' higher than ambient air pressure. With the data logger plumbed and
wired to the electrical system, I was almost ready to go. One last
detail was the O2 masks. I normally use nasal canulas, which are more
comfortable than masks. However they are not to be used above 18,000'. A
mask must be used. I had several old masks which were certified to
30,000'. I discovered the old carbon microphone wouldn't work, so I
removed it and cut a small slit in the side to slip my headset boom mic
in. It works great.
February 15 was a forecasted as beautiful sunny day under the influence
of a high pressure system. Early Monday morning I made my first call to
Toronto ACC to coordinate the flight. We agreed on a northwest bound
heading out of Waterloo. I called Flow Control for a flow number and
then filed a CVFR flight plan with London FSS. I arranged with Waterloo
ATC to mark the altimeter setting for take off and landing. The data
logger is calibrated to standard atmosphere so station pressure is
required to calculate absolute altitude. The airplane was stripped of
all extra weight and 120lbs of fuel were on board, good for two hours.
As I was fitting the O2 mask in the cold cockpit I ran into a small
problem. The mask was stiff and I wasn't happy with the fit. I couldn't
get it tight enough to avoid having my sunglasses fog up from the
leakage around my nose. I pulled the strap really tight, pinched it over
some hair on the back of head and clamped it with a wedge lock. That fix
worked very well as I had crease marks on my face for six hours
afterwards.
The flight started off of runway 32 at Waterloo with an initial
clearance of a straight climb out to the northwest to 9000'. I paused
for 15 seconds on the runway so the data logger would start the clock
for the first part of the flight, which was a "time to climb" to 3000m.
I passed through the 3000m mark at 00:06:16. After that I backed off the
propeller to 2500rpm. I have an Insight Graphic Engine Monitor installed
and was able to keep the engine leaned just to the rich side of peak.
Toronto Centre modified my clearance as I went and finally cleared me to
FL230. I had to back off on the climb rate from 12000' to 18000' due to
high oil temperatures. After 18000' the engine performance was low
enough that the oil temps stayed in the green and I increased the prop
to 2700rpm. Along the way the various controller's inquired about the
airplane and questioned me as to what I was trying to achieve. As I
approached FL230 I was cleared to FL270 or what ever I could get. The
climb rate diminished to around 100fpm at 24500'. The view was
fantastic. I could see Lake Huron, Erie and Ontario with a slight
movement of my head. As I approached 26,000' the controls got quite
mushy. Indicated airspeed was down to 55kts. Pulling on the stick just
increased the angle of attack. Lowering the nose for a little bit of
speed resulted in a 300-400 drop in altitude. The engine was still
turning 2700rpm but the manifold pressure was down to 9"hg. Outside air
temp was -38C (-36F). I played around for about a minute trying to nurse
some more altitude, but the wing wouldn't lift anymore. I was only 60nm
away from the field, so the descent was accomplished with a couple of
360's approved by Toronto Centre. Total elapsed flight time was
01:02:00. Final readings from the data logger indicate an absolute
altitude reached at 26,137' and level flight was maintained at 25,900'.
Between the two cabin heaters and the solar heating I stayed warm for
the entire flight. I did pick up a layer on frost on the right side of
the canopy, which wasn't in direct sunlight.
I now can complete another section in my operating handbook and record
an interesting entry in the Journey Log. So much fun, so little time.
--
Terry Jantzi
Kitchener ON
RV-6 C-GZRV
<http://netrover.com/~tjantzi/terry/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "george murphy" <george(at)atlantic.net> |
| Subject: | RV6_A parts and tools |
Building 6RV_A and am looking for any unfinished kits and tools to build
same.
george(at)atlantic.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "greynoldsn98(at)mailhost.ind.ameritech.net |
by mailhost.ind.ameritech.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124)
with SMTP id" <19990217164045.EJSP14937@oemcomputer>
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer cables |
N426BBRV(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Builders
>
> For your information and consideration may I submit the following.
> Lycoming O-320 and O-360 engines, when viewed from the back or accessory case
> end, the tach drive turns clockwise, except of course those engines with an L
> prefix that turn counterclockwise.
> Tachometer and speedometer cables are made of stranded wire that is
> twisted either RIGHT or LEFT. The automobile tachometer shops that make
> cables almost exclusiveyly have Right hand twist cable.
> That means that if you have an automobile cable co. make up your tach
> cable it will in all likelyhood have a RIGHT hand twist which will have a
> tendency to "unwind" when installed in your Lycoming engined RV.
> I am not implying that it will not work IF you have a cable installation
> that has no severe bends and is properly lubricated. I know of one RV on my
> field that had his cable break, and upon examination, it was a RIGHT hand
> twist and it was not lubricated very well. He also had a fairly severe bend
> in the housing due to the cable being too long.
> What I am saying to you is, ask your cable builder if he has LEFT hand
> twist cable before you deal with him. If he doesn't you might want to shop
> around.
> If you buy tach cables from Aircraft supply vendors, ask them about the
> twist. Don't be surprised if they don't know what you are talking about.
>
> Bill Bishop
> N426BB
> RV6A 305 hours
> DWH Houston, TX.
>
Bill,
Thanks for the info.. I checked the old cable from my Cessna, that
supplied my engine, and found just what your talking about. Someone had
installed a right hand twist. I needed the whole assembly, cable and
housing, so I went with ACS.
Gary Reynolds
RV6A on the gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLPalinkas(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: control surface locks |
> Has anyone come up with an alternative (elegant!) method
> of locking control surfaces from inside the cockpit
> other than using the seat belt? (& including the rudder)
> Bill & Kathy Peck
>
Dave Ross from northern Ohio makes a nice lock that he sells. Maybe
someone can locate his address.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
I visited Dave's shop in Dec. I can contact him if anyone is interested. His
is a high quality installation on his award winning RV-4.
Gary Palinkas
Parma, Ohio
RV-6 QB
198RV (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLPalinkas(at)aol.com |
re: Aircraft Spruce Catalogs
They are now FREE and advertise same in most aviation mags. Just received
mine.
Gary Palinkas
Parma, Ohio
RV-6 QB
198RV (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cleaveland Aircraft Tool" <mail(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
>
>I see there are industrial 1/4" souxs and smaller palm type that run
>nearly $257. (Cleveland), 3600 rpm, and weighs 1.5 lbs OR industrial
>1/4" for under $200. and can turn 4500 rpm. I have read the higher rpms
>work best BUT are larger and havier. Any thoughts??? bob
>
Our ADS-12 (Sioux 1412 3600rpm 1/4" palm drill) price has been lowered to
$195.00 from the $257 due to a deal worked out with Sioux, see
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/siouxchange.html
There is an advantage to the higher rpm we have a Sioux that turns 6000.
But the weight difference makes it less desirable than the little drill.
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Pengilly" <peter(at)pengilly99.freeserve.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
-----Original Message-----
From: Stucklen, Frederic IFC <stuckle(at)ifc.utc.com>
Date: 11 February 1999 13:43
Subject: RE: RV-List: External Solenoid Jumper
Listers,
My copy of RVators arrived today, takes a while to get across the pond, so I
now know what you have been talking about. I may be missing something, but,
when using one of these new starters why do we need to have a starter
solenoid? How many cars have one? OK, with the old Bendix type of starter,
that ran as soon as power was supplied, a separate solenoid is required.
However, these new starters have their own solenoid strapped to the side.
Why not supply power to the starter directly from the master solenoid and
take the wire from your key start/ starter button directly to the small
terminal on the starter? So the line from the master relay to the starter is
"hot" all the time - it is in most cars and there is no problem. If there is
ever a problem cutting the master switch will solve that. It just seems that
we are making things more difficult for ourselves that they need be. Any
comments?
Pete Pengilly
Still on small bits.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
>Why not supply power to the starter directly from the master solenoid and
>take the wire from your key start/ starter button directly to the small
>terminal on the starter?
I was not aware that any aircraft starters had their own built-in starter
solenoid. If so then the wiring you suggest would be appropriate.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
I'm about to start on the dreaded cowl. It is the light weight expoxy S
type. It appears that any shiming would be done on the cowl. Would like to
know how much and where from anyone thats been there. Thanks ahead.
RV6A
planejoe(at)flnet.com/wings,flap,alerons, plumbing, tail feathers,canopy
slider, fitted and disassembled, engine mounted. One step forward 3 back
still treading water.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
Peter P asked:
> However, these new starters have their own solenoid strapped to the side.
> Why not supply power to the starter directly from the master solenoid and
> take the wire from your key start/ starter button directly to the small
> terminal on the starter?
The starter needs to have you do two functions to get it to turn the engine
over:
1 - engage starter gear to flywheel ring gear
2 - turn on the electricity
In early cars, you stepped on the starter pedal and pressed the button. No
solenoids anywhere. I think (memory test here!) that is how my nice little MGA
worked.
A few years ago I fixed up a Toyota Camry starter solenoid which did both
functions. When the solenoid was energized by the starter switch, the plunger
did both functions. I had to sand on the contacts a bit to get it working
again. It got by with a single solenoid but it didn't have a master solenoid.
It seems to me that a lighter weight arrangement for our little planes would
include a pull cable to engage gear and electricity.
Hal Kempthorne RV-6AQ -- Hangar H-4 at SCK - Engine mounted
halk(at)sybase.com Santa Clara, CA. Debonair N6134V @ SJC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoking at Oshkosh |
>
>[The EAA] has become much more of a
>Political Action Committee (PAC) to represent general aviation people (such
>as us) to our government to prevent out government from running roughshod
>over our God given rights like they will do unless we have someone looking
>out for our interests.
There are no "God Given Rights." God doesn't even guarantee me the right
to live. The rights and privileges we retain are those we work and/or
fight for. If the EAA didn't represent our desires, who would?
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tachometer cables |
Gary,
did you see he message to Bill from a guy who says that the cables are
multiple layers twisted in both directions?????
LT
>Bill,
>Thanks for the info.. I checked the old cable from my Cessna, that
>supplied my engine, and found just what your talking about. Someone had
>installed a right hand twist. I needed the whole assembly, cable and
>housing, so I went with ACS.
>
>Gary Reynolds
>RV6A on the gear
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
>A few years ago I fixed up a Toyota Camry starter solenoid which did both
>functions. When the solenoid was energized by the starter switch, the
plunger
>did both functions. I had to sand on the contacts a bit to get it working
>again. It got by with a single solenoid but it didn't have a master
solenoid.
>
>It seems to me that a lighter weight arrangement for our little planes would
>include a pull cable to engage gear and electricity.
Which is what the first starters for the C-85 thru O-300
did. Simple, light and failure modes that would lunch
your accessory case.
Lycs are more forgiving . . . parts that fall off the
starter don't fall INSIDE the engine . . .
>There is an article by Bill Benedict in the latest RVater about
>using an external jumper on the starter solenoid to prevent starter
>motoring.
>Does anyone have any idea what the approximate current draw is on a
>permanent magnet solenoid so I can figure out what size wire/CB is
>required. Just for the heck of it I tested a # 18 wire for about
>10 sec and it got a little warm.
> Thanks
Watched this thread for awhile but couldn't comment without
seeing the article being discussed. A couple of RV-Listers
faxed me a copy so here 'tis.
First, download a copy of an article I did on the unique
characteristics of modern contactor/solenoid combinations
found on virtually all new starters. This document is available
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
The Bill's article describes a scheme that will function
for awhile. Problem is, the starter switch or pushbutton now
has to energize two contactors . . . the external contactor
that's probably limited to about 5 amps max coil current
-and- the solenoid/contactor integral to the starter that
must, by design, draw 5 to 6 times that current in the first
few milliseconds after the switch closes.
If you're using the clasic off-l-r-b-start keyswitch, then
adding this kind of load to its starter switch contacts
will shorten its time on this earth significantly. If you've
got a fairly hefty push-button, it would be okay to wire
per the article but I think I'd take the external contactor
completely off the airplane and use only the integral contactor.
If you have a keyswitch, then a small, automotive booster
relay is the solution. Check out Radio Shack for a 30 amp
plastic relay that sells for about $6 . . . we also sell
a suitable part from our web catalog as an S704-1 Relay.
Use this relay to carry the switch-killing energizing current
of the integral contactor/solenoid. If the relay is mounted
on the engine side of the firewall, it's easy to replace and
costs only a few bux . . .
Further, its 30 amp rating will give it a fighting chance
at some longevity in the system. I've published a schematic
for suggested wiring of an external booster relay at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pmcntctr.pdf
>Another concern I have is the current in the key switch. It now must
>conduct the current of two solenoids instead of one. I think I'd like to
>measure this total current and make sure it matches the current rating
>of the key switch.....
The keyswitches HAVE no realistic rating. They use
an antique slow-wipe contact mechanism that's
subject to unnecessary stresses at about any current.
There was an AD out against the ACS clone of the old
Gerdes/Bendix switches a few years back to take the switch
apart, replace the starter contacts and ADD a diode across
the switch to minimize arcing when the switch opens. This
Airworthiness Directive has NO USEFUL EFFECT on damage due
to the 30 amp inrush that would be applied by using Mr.
Benedict's suggestion.
The most straightforward solution is to eliminate the external
contactor and boost the existing starter switch's current
capability with a relay much more suited to the task of
controlling the modern integral contactor/solenoid.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
I have been agonizing with the idea of eliminating the external starter contactor
;and
see your point entirely; however I have one remaining nagging question:
If you eliminate the (near the battery) starter contactor, you now have an always
hot
fat wire to the starter. this is an awful long fat wire which is always hot and
open
to getting you into trouble in case of a crash or other deformity of the engine
compartment. Isn't this why the contactor is there in the first place? Any
way that
is why I still have the darn thing.
When are you going to have the snap in harness for RVs?? Your public awaits.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
> >A few years ago I fixed up a Toyota Camry starter solenoid which did both
> >functions. When the solenoid was energized by the starter switch, the
> plunger
> >did both functions. I had to sand on the contacts a bit to get it working
> >again. It got by with a single solenoid but it didn't have a master
> solenoid.
> >
> >It seems to me that a lighter weight arrangement for our little planes would
> >include a pull cable to engage gear and electricity.
>
> Which is what the first starters for the C-85 thru O-300
> did. Simple, light and failure modes that would lunch
> your accessory case.
>
> Lycs are more forgiving . . . parts that fall off the
> starter don't fall INSIDE the engine . . .
>
> >There is an article by Bill Benedict in the latest RVater about
> >using an external jumper on the starter solenoid to prevent starter
> >motoring.
>
> >Does anyone have any idea what the approximate current draw is on a
> >permanent magnet solenoid so I can figure out what size wire/CB is
> >required. Just for the heck of it I tested a # 18 wire for about
> >10 sec and it got a little warm.
> > Thanks
>
> Watched this thread for awhile but couldn't comment without
> seeing the article being discussed. A couple of RV-Listers
> faxed me a copy so here 'tis.
>
> First, download a copy of an article I did on the unique
> characteristics of modern contactor/solenoid combinations
> found on virtually all new starters. This document is available
> at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
>
> The Bill's article describes a scheme that will function
> for awhile. Problem is, the starter switch or pushbutton now
> has to energize two contactors . . . the external contactor
> that's probably limited to about 5 amps max coil current
> -and- the solenoid/contactor integral to the starter that
> must, by design, draw 5 to 6 times that current in the first
> few milliseconds after the switch closes.
>
> If you're using the clasic off-l-r-b-start keyswitch, then
> adding this kind of load to its starter switch contacts
> will shorten its time on this earth significantly. If you've
> got a fairly hefty push-button, it would be okay to wire
> per the article but I think I'd take the external contactor
> completely off the airplane and use only the integral contactor.
>
> If you have a keyswitch, then a small, automotive booster
> relay is the solution. Check out Radio Shack for a 30 amp
> plastic relay that sells for about $6 . . . we also sell
> a suitable part from our web catalog as an S704-1 Relay.
>
> Use this relay to carry the switch-killing energizing current
> of the integral contactor/solenoid. If the relay is mounted
> on the engine side of the firewall, it's easy to replace and
> costs only a few bux . . .
>
> Further, its 30 amp rating will give it a fighting chance
> at some longevity in the system. I've published a schematic
> for suggested wiring of an external booster relay at:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pmcntctr.pdf
>
> >Another concern I have is the current in the key switch. It now must
> >conduct the current of two solenoids instead of one. I think I'd like to
> >measure this total current and make sure it matches the current rating
> >of the key switch.....
>
> The keyswitches HAVE no realistic rating. They use
> an antique slow-wipe contact mechanism that's
> subject to unnecessary stresses at about any current.
> There was an AD out against the ACS clone of the old
> Gerdes/Bendix switches a few years back to take the switch
> apart, replace the starter contacts and ADD a diode across
> the switch to minimize arcing when the switch opens. This
> Airworthiness Directive has NO USEFUL EFFECT on damage due
> to the 30 amp inrush that would be applied by using Mr.
> Benedict's suggestion.
>
> The most straightforward solution is to eliminate the external
> contactor and boost the existing starter switch's current
> capability with a relay much more suited to the task of
> controlling the modern integral contactor/solenoid.
>
> Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
Putting the starter solenoid on the firewall, moves a little bit of weight
back, and gets it away from the hot engine to a cooler spot. It also keeps
the heavy starter cable dead unless you are using the starter. If it would
break, burn into, or become detached it isn't live and create a fire hazard.
Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com>
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: External Solenoid Jumper
>
>>Why not supply power to the starter directly from the master solenoid and
>>take the wire from your key start/ starter button directly to the small
>>terminal on the starter?
>
>I was not aware that any aircraft starters had their own built-in starter
>solenoid. If so then the wiring you suggest would be appropriate.
>
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
>http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - (was: Aircraft Spruce Reply) |
Jerry,
If I were Jim Irwin, I'd certainly subscribe to all the Lists, provided
by Matronics (thanks Matt).
Please note that my last sentence referred to Jim Sears.
Thanks,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A in progress
>Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 18:38:04 -0800
>From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com>
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Please Read - (was: Aircraft Spruce Reply)
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>> While some may not agree with Jim Sears' opinion of ACS, his
willingness
>> to provide his experience is appreciated. Our "RV-List" gives us the
>> ability to help fellow RV builders by providing information in a
>> professional manner. Flaming among the "RV-List" family only defeats
the
>> "RV-List's" purpose of dispensing information to it's members. Please
>> remember the posting where we lost "Corsair" for a while and the
Poster
>> that we might have rec'd some valuable input from.
>>
>> I for one have not made up my mind on ACS, but I appreciated Jim
Sears'
>> comments, as well as Scott McDaniels' and a number of other list
members
>> who had a different point of view. Please consider the value of all
>> "RV-List" members and the time they take to provide us all, with
their
>> opinion/information.
>>
>> Jim I hope you will hang in there with us, your input is appreciated.
>>
>
>I wonder if Jim Irwin subscribes to this list or is someone
>just forwarding responses to him? for him to get
>the whole picture he needs to read every post.
>--
>Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR
>jsflyrv(at)ix.netcom.com
>
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
Joe,
If you have done your canopy, the cowl is easy. As for shimming, I have to
assume that you are using Van's supplied hinges. My top cowl did not need any
shimming. Bottom cowl I shimmed the sides .063 (actually .064 (two .032
shims)).
Gary Zilik
6A s/n 22993
joseph.wiza wrote:
>
> I'm about to start on the dreaded cowl. It is the light weight expoxy S
> type. It appears that any shiming would be done on the cowl. Would like to
> know how much and where from anyone thats been there. Thanks ahead.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L.R. BENTLEY" <lloydb(at)intekom.co.za> |
Good day listers , I another question from a fellow builder . He has
removed the fuse from the jig and when scratching through the box of parts
he found 2 x F473 formed angles and cannot locate them on the inventory
list or the plans , any suggestions out there . Many thanks LLOYD BENTLEY
RV 6 WINGS RSA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MICHAEL <lottmc(at)datasync.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Please Read - (was: Aircraft Spruce Reply) |
I know, let's start a thread about the primer ACS sells.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Younie" <nyounie(at)pacificcoast.net> |
Has anyone tried the Brittian acutrack II auto pilot in a RV-6.? I have one
and hope to use it. Just finishing the fuselage and waiting for the
finishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoking at Oshkosh |
Brian I didn't mean to imply that EAA was wrong or not doing a good job or
anything. I just wanted to point out how they have evolved into a more
commercial organization and with good reason. Al EAA #30988 and thats my
second number!
>
>>
>>[The EAA] has become much more of a
>>Political Action Committee (PAC) to represent general aviation people (such
>>as us) to our government to prevent out government from running roughshod
>>over our God given rights like they will do unless we have someone looking
>>out for our interests.
>
>There are no "God Given Rights." God doesn't even guarantee me the right
>to live. The rights and privileges we retain are those we work and/or
>fight for. If the EAA didn't represent our desires, who would?
>
>
>Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
>brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
>http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
>+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Tyrrel <charliet(at)vcn.com> |
We just finished this operation on Charlie's cowl for his 6A. I used 3"
wide fiberglass tape (purchased from ACS several years ago). I cut the
tape in two and placed the selvage edge up against the edge of the
honeycomb core letteing the cut edges stick over the edge of the cowl. I
used three layers down the sides of the bottom cowl, two layers across the
bottom of the bottom cowl and two layers across the rear of the top cowl
where it joins the fuselage. BTW, we used flanges across the bottom and
the top of the cowl and hinges down the side of the bottom cowl and for the
top/bottom, horizontal connection.
Bob Skinner RV6 460 hrs Buffalo, WY (on RV location in Gillette using
Charlie's new computer)
>I'm about to start on the dreaded cowl. It is the light weight expoxy S
>type. It appears that any shiming would be done on the cowl. Would like to
>know how much and where from anyone thats been there. Thanks ahead.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Email Address |
I know you are all on the edge of your seats waiting
to get this piece of important non RV related info.
so here it is:)
New email address is *jsflyrv(at)teleport.com*
--
Jerry Springer|RV-6 First Flight 1989|Hillsboro, OR
jsflyrv(at)teleport.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
>I was not aware that any aircraft starters had their own built-in starter
>solenoid. If so then the wiring you suggest would be appropriate.
None of the classic "iron pigs" have built in contactor/solenoids.
Only the modern lightweights have borrowed from advanced automotive
technologies.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
>If you eliminate the (near the battery) starter contactor, you now have an
always hot
>fat wire to the starter. this is an awful long fat wire which is always
hot and open
>to getting you into trouble in case of a crash or other deformity of the
engine
>compartment. Isn't this why the contactor is there in the first place?
Any way that
>is why I still have the darn thing.
But LOTS of airplanes have always hot fat wires in them . . . take
any Cessna or Piper with a rear battery. RVs with BIG engines put
the battery in the back and run a fat wire forward. FAT wires don't
get into trouble like little ones that smoke. It just hasn't been high
on the list of worries.
>When are you going to have the snap in harness for RVs?? Your public awaits.
Were doing the development on individual components of the power
distribution
board . . . all the mechanical details have been on the drawing board
for over a year. Our first weekend seminar is at George and Becky
Orndorff's . . . plan to get some measurements off some airplanes
and check major components for footprint room. It's getting closer!
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeremy Benedict <jwb(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ???EAA is NOT non-profit??? |
Someone wrote:
>Please allow me to enlighten the list about EAA. EAA is NOT a non-profit
>organization, BUT the EAA Aviation Foundation (the research and museum
>people) ARE non-profit. Yes, EAA makes a profit.
The United States Department of Treasury indicated to me that the
"Experimental Aircraft Association, Inc." of Oshkosh, Wisconsin is an
exempt NON-PROFIT organization -- "A public charity with a 50%
deductibility limitation."
Is there another part of the EAA that is for-profit? If so, then how much
profit? Is this funneling members' dues to the pockets of the few? Is it
a closely-held corporation? I haven't seen EAA stock flying around Wall
Street...
~Jeremy
jwb(at)europa.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ???EAA is NOT non-profit??? |
One could say that The Catholic Church, or for that matter many other
church/religious groups are non-profit but then look on the cover of the
latest RVator. Is that not a Catholic Priest? The Church takes in a lot of
money so in some respects you could see it as a for-profit company supposedly
in the buisness of saving souls. The EAA does a lot of good for us--if they
makes some profit along the way by selling me a 5 dollar hotdog then so be it.
I do wish they would drop the adds on the loudspeakers down a notch and put
the non-flying public back behind the ropes where they belong. Oh, do not
blast me about defaming The Church--I am a lifer. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mgraffeo(at)mail.usa.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 02/17/99 |
What's the best way to make sure the Horizontal stabilizer is setup correctly before
I drill & rivet?
After viewing the manual, I drew lines down the center of the ribs and checked
that with a level. If the are all plumb should I assume that all is well? I'd
hate to mess up so early in the game. Please let me know how you
checked the alignment.
Thanks...
---------------------------------------------------------------
Get free personalized email from USA.com at http://mail.usa.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoking at Oshkosh |
Listers,
If you have a beef with the EAA, how about sending your notes to the
EAA, as well? If you don't and are defending the EAA, do same. It
does no good for us to preach to the choir. It may do no good to
preach to the EAA, either; but, you may feel a bit better about it.
BTW, I sent a copy of a note to them the other day and still haven't
heard anything from them. I don't expect to. That's one of my peeves
against the EAA. The EAA proclaims to be our representative. I don't
understand how the EAA can be my representative and not give a hoot
that I exist.
Anyway, copy your notes to the EAA. Personally, I'm going to do the
radical thing and just let my membership drop in September. I've
written to them enough and haven't gotten any satisfaction.
Jim Sears in KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott A. Jordan" <SAJ_SLJ(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ???EAA is NOT non-profit??? |
>The constant ads spouted over the loudspeaker during the airshow
I don't go to an airshow to hear products hawked ad nauseum.<
Since the airshow pilots are all volunteers you won't see these ads
disappear. Even Tucker and Wagstaff can't charge enough money to make a
living by flying airshows nine months of the year and must take on sponsors
to make ends meet. If a long distance phone company tells Tucker they will
pay him to spend a week at OSH, you can bet they expect to get a weeks
worth of exposure from his 20 minute flights.
These airborne ads are now the norm for virtually all acts. Many acts will
take a break to "climb to altitude before the next manuver" and spend that
time selling the sponsors products over the PA. I always snicker at the
excuse since an Extra 300 doesn't have to climb to altitude for too many
manuvers, its just that it is tough to hype a product while tumbling or
pulling 6+G's.
Scott A. Jordan
80331
Fuselage in the mail & wishing I had a sponsor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
In a message dated 2/15/99 6:04:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rv8er(at)concentric.net writes:
<< I hate to ask a dumb question, but what do you do if you need to get into
> the tank to replace sender etc.???? Is there a better alternative to
> sealing the tank access covers than proseal??? >>
You know I don't know what all the fuss is about using Proseal to seal the
access covers.
I used it on mine and had a tiny leak on the back baffle, removed the cover
with absolutely no problem at all using a gasket scraper, cleaned off the old
proseal using PVC pipe cleaner (MEK & acetone) and after I fixed the leak used
a new cork gasket and prosealed the cover back on. It took me about 2-1/2
hours from start to finish, and when I tested the tank it held just fine.
Proseal is much worse to work with BEFORE it sets up than it is after, and it
is not any worse to get off than Permatex or any other sealant, you just have
to use the right solvent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
In a message dated 2/15/99 4:26:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< There are lots of variants, with weight differences as much as 25 pounds.
The O320E2D is 286 lbs while the O360A1A is 290 lbs. Source: Lycoming
Operator's Manuals. >>
I'd like to see some INSTALLED weights for these engines, including all
accessories baffling, oil cooler, and prop just for comparison's sake.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
>Putting the starter solenoid on the firewall, moves a little bit of weight
>back, and gets it away from the hot engine to a cooler spot. It also keeps
>the heavy starter cable dead unless you are using the starter. If it would
>break, burn into, or become detached it isn't live and create a fire hazard.
I think there's some confusion here. The contactor that's
built onto modern, lightweight starters cannot be moved
back. B&C (and perhaps some others) have jumpered the
coil terminal of the built in contactor right to the
starter main power terminal (as shown on our power distribution
diagrams) and recommended an additional contactor be placed
on the firewall. This is for reasons cited in the article
at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/strtctr.pdf
If the starter has a PM motor, then the jumper on the
built-in contactor affords an opportunity for motor back
emf (playing like a generator) to keep the solenoid portion
of the contactor engaged during starter run-down. This is
shouldn't be a serious problem, there are over-run clutches
that prevent starter damage for the few seconds that the
starter stays engaged even tho it's not powered up.
The built in contactor cannot be moved aft . . . it's bolted
to the starter and is also the pinion gear engagement
solenoid. The run-on issue spaked an article in RV-ator
and a thread on this list about eliminating the
phenomenon.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flush swivel rivet set question |
In a message dated 2/15/99 3:47:15 PM Central Standard Time, krush(at)iquest.net
writes:
> YES YES YES, DO GET THE AVERY SWIVEL/FLUSH RIVET SET WITH THE RUBBER BOOT!
I fully agree with the above. When I received my swivel set from Avery, the
rubber guard was to long. I "cautiously" used a belt sander to trim the
height of the guard down to put it closer to the metal set. This helped
tremendously. Also, after you use the set for a while, the rubber guard
becomes very "slippery", and tends to move around on the metal as you're
trying to set rivets. Every so often it helps to run a piece of fine sandpaper
over the edge of the rubber guard to roughen it up.
Tom Chapman
San Antonio
RV-4 N153TK 790 hours
Working on RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/18/99 1:49:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, charliet(at)vcn.com
writes:
<< BTW, we used flanges across the bottom and
the top of the cowl and hinges down the side of the bottom cowl and for the
top/bottom, horizontal connection. >>
Bob Skinner,
Want to explain what you mean by "flanges"?
Bernie Kerr, 6A engine bay and instrument panel, SE FLa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Spruce |
>Please, just one more thing while I'm on the soapbox: I was disappointed to
>read Mr. Irwin's reasons for staying out of the JPI/Matronix issue. As a
>reseller of their products, their business is his business in one way or
>another.
I think it was MUCH to early to get distributors and print
media involved for anything more than to make them aware of
a developing situation. The trade-mark issue started out very
small and may very well die before it gets big. I think it's
appropriate for us, as members of the consumer base who
purchase products, to make it clear to the agressor that we're
WATCHING what transpires. This should be handled as a two
party issue between manufacturers and consumers. Third
party involvement shouldn't be needed and getting them
into it this early is like asking for a hip-pocket verdict
on O.J. before the trial starts.
ACS is a corporation and while it should take on the flavor
of Jim Irwin's sense of morality, it also has to behave
under different guidlines we as the end user of the
products.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
In a message dated 2/15/99 4:26:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net writes:
<< There are lots of variants, with weight differences as much as 25 pounds.
The O320E2D is 286 lbs while the O360A1A is 290 lbs. Source: Lycoming
Operator's Manuals. >>
I'd like to see some INSTALLED weights for these engines, including all
accessories baffling, oil cooler, and prop just for comparison's sake.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank access cover sealing |
In a message dated 2/15/99 6:04:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rv8er(at)concentric.net writes:
<< I hate to ask a dumb question, but what do you do if you need to get into
> the tank to replace sender etc.???? Is there a better alternative to
> sealing the tank access covers than proseal??? >>
You know I don't know what all the fuss is about using Proseal to seal the
access covers.
I used it on mine and had a tiny leak on the back baffle, removed the cover
with absolutely no problem at all using a gasket scraper, cleaned off the old
proseal using PVC pipe cleaner (MEK & acetone) and after I fixed the leak used
a new cork gasket and prosealed the cover back on. It took me about 2-1/2
hours from start to finish, and when I tested the tank it held just fine.
Proseal is much worse to work with BEFORE it sets up than it is after, and it
is not any worse to get off than Permatex or any other sealant, you just have
to use the right solvent.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BELTEDAIR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
I can only say that when we removed our FWF from our Swift a few years ago
that the entire package, engine,mount, oil cooler , prop Hartzell C/S came in
410 lbs, an 0-320-A-1A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com> |
<<>>
I posed this question recently. It is my understanding that there may be
problem with breaking the connection in a master relay with a high
amount of currnet going across it. I believe that is the reason that
starter relays exist, they are made to make or break the circuit with
high current loads passing through, where as master relays will carry
high current, but should already be closed when the high current loaad
starts/stops.
That is why I advocate placing the starter relay close to the master
relay. If i were going to place it on the firewall, then I would think
just using the one on the starter would make more sense.
So that is the question for Bob Nuckolls, can you break the circuit in a
master relay with an extremely high current load passing through? If the
answer is anything other than absolutely, I think it would be wise to
keep the length of the hot wire at a minimum.
Bruce Green
RV-8 preview plans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Christensen, Peter" <pchristensen(at)sel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 02/17/99 |
First, if the skeleton members line up with the pre-punched holes, you're
off to a good start in ensuring proper alignment of the ribs, etc. However,
as for ensuring straightness, etc., what I did was to use the plumb bob
method -- hang a plumb bob off a wire strung taut between the jig posts.
With the skeleton complete, I checked the centering of all skeleton pieces
at a number of points using the location of the plumb bob to a carefully
measured center line on the skeleton. I found that very subtle twists in
the jig cross piece made a measurable difference, so I rechecked this often
during the riveting process.
I've read lots about how much care you need in getting a perfectly straight
jig, and now I know what they were talking about. It really doesn't matter
how straight the jig is, it's the airplane pieces that need to be straight.
As long as you check, measure, and adjust the HS (not the jig)often, then
you will be OK. For some jigs, however, such as the control surface "V"
jigs, you can't really adjust them once assembled. When you get that far,
I'll 'fess up to how much time I wasted in ensuring they were straight,
although there was a very easy way to do it.
Peter Christensen
RV-6A: Empennage done, but new house so need to build a new workshop before
I get the wing
Bethel Park, PA
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mgraffeo(at)mail.usa.com [SMTP:mgraffeo(at)mail.usa.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 18, 1999 6:13 AM
> To: RV-List Digest Server
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 02/17/99
>
>
> What's the best way to make sure the Horizontal stabilizer is setup
> correctly before I drill & rivet?
> After viewing the manual, I drew lines down the center of the ribs and
> checked that with a level. If the are all plumb should I assume that all
> is well? I'd hate to mess up so early in the game. Please let me know how
> you
> checked the alignment.
>
> Thanks...
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Get free personalized email from USA.com at http://mail.usa.com
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ??? non-profit??? |
the way i seen it done, your allowed a house ( 4 million dollar mansion ) a
car ( 1/2 millon dollar rolls royce ) a watch (35,000 dollar Rolex )
property ( 2,000 acre spread ) etc. etc. etc. you get the point, but no
profit? go fiqure JIMMY SWAGGERT PASTOR
scott
winging it in tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
Bob, it has been my experience, that small wires do smoke but big wires will
weld, arc, and create fires.
Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 1:39 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: External Solenoid Jumper
>
>
>>If you eliminate the (near the battery) starter contactor, you now have an
>always hot
>>fat wire to the starter. this is an awful long fat wire which is always
>hot and open
>>to getting you into trouble in case of a crash or other deformity of the
>engine
>>compartment. Isn't this why the contactor is there in the first place?
>Any way that
>>is why I still have the darn thing.
>
> But LOTS of airplanes have always hot fat wires in them . . . take
> any Cessna or Piper with a rear battery. RVs with BIG engines put
> the battery in the back and run a fat wire forward. FAT wires don't
> get into trouble like little ones that smoke. It just hasn't been high
> on the list of worries.
>
>>When are you going to have the snap in harness for RVs?? Your public
awaits.
>
> Were doing the development on individual components of the power
>distribution
> board . . . all the mechanical details have been on the drawing board
> for over a year. Our first weekend seminar is at George and Becky
> Orndorff's . . . plan to get some measurements off some airplanes
> and check major components for footprint room. It's getting closer!
>
>
> Bob . . .
> ////
> (o o)
> ===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
> < A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
> < When deprived of facts, >
> < our fantasies are generally >
> < much worse than reality. >
> ================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
>I posed this question recently. It is my understanding that there may be
> problem with breaking the connection in a master relay with a high
>amount of currnet going across it. I believe that is the reason that
>starter relays exist, they are made to make or break the circuit with
>high current loads passing through, where as master relays will carry
>high current, but should already be closed when the high current loaad
>starts/stops.
>
Never heard of this. Don't understand where it came from. The way
you choose components for use in any system is that it should
perform its intended purpose under all foreseeable conditions.
What is meant by "high current load condition?" How big is this
current in amps and what fault generates it . . . and sorry,
ya can't just say "shorted bus" or "shorted wire" . . . be
specific as to what failure mode produces the condition you're
studying.
When the homework is done, we find that MAX fault current in any
airplane is set by the internal impedance of the battery and intervening
conductors between battery and where the fault occurs. We also
have to deduce the manner in which any "short" will occur. The
first design task is to eliminate the shorting modes. This is purely
a mechanical consideration. Were do your wires run? What events
are likely to occur that produces the hard fault on a wire or bus
bar? The simple answer for every airplane is "there are no phyical
conditions possible that will produce the hard fault" Last, can
our contactor of choice open a 1000-2000 amp fault assuming that
it might happen. The answer is yes.
It takes two failures to produce the hazard (1) hard fault in
the system and (2) poor selection of battery contactor to
the task. Both conditions have very low orders of probability.
Probability of both happening is so tiny it may be ignored.
>So that is the question for Bob Nuckolls, can you break the circuit in a
>master relay with an extremely high current load passing through? If the
>answer is anything other than absolutely, I think it would be wise to
>keep the length of the hot wire at a minimum.
>
My friend, the only absolute things I'm familar with are death
and taxes. I'm just saying that compared to a bizillion other
things that go demonstrably wrong on airplanes every day (go
read the service difficulty reports) I think it's a waste of
time and effort to worry about 1 in a million events before we
slay all the 1 in a thousand draggons.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoking at Oshkosh |
I'm sorry that you feel that way. Every time I have called or written I get
a response and have been getting replies for over 25 years. When they don't
agree, they tell me. Most of the time, though, they look into the problem
and will fix it. I should say however, I am one of the volunteers and have
been for all that time as well. I have gone back every year since I joined.
Is EAA perfect, NO! But its is much better than many other organizations.
EAA represents us very well with the FAA. Can you imagine what it would be
like without their intervention??
By the way. You only get out of an organization what you put in. I have put
in my time and money. There are displays that I can point to in the museum
that I built. There is a brick with my father's name that I bought in his
WW2 honor. There are airplanes that fly into of Oshkosh every year that
would not fly out if I and my volunteers didn't fix them safely.
Cy Galley EAA 71015 (life) Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Smoking at Oshkosh
>
>Listers,
>
>If you have a beef with the EAA, how about sending your notes to the
>EAA, as well? If you don't and are defending the EAA, do same. It
>does no good for us to preach to the choir. It may do no good to
>preach to the EAA, either; but, you may feel a bit better about it.
>
>BTW, I sent a copy of a note to them the other day and still haven't
>heard anything from them. I don't expect to. That's one of my peeves
>against the EAA. The EAA proclaims to be our representative. I don't
>understand how the EAA can be my representative and not give a hoot
>that I exist.
>
>Anyway, copy your notes to the EAA. Personally, I'm going to do the
>radical thing and just let my membership drop in September. I've
>written to them enough and haven't gotten any satisfaction.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
I used an aluminum shim between the top cowl hinge and firewall flange.
I think this is in the instructions.
I used a couple of thicknesses of fiberglass under the side hinges.
I waited until after I had the cowl fitted for these, and measured how
much was needed under what part of each hinge, then glassed in the
extra before riveting on the hinge.
The new print that comes with the S-cowl is very complete. Just follow
what it says and you'll be fine.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
One of us asked to see INSTALLED weights for these engines.
Why? Wouldn't the installed weights of a ???320 and a ???360 be the same if all
the other stuff were the same? And if they weren't the same, what would you
then know?
I suppose there is a few ounces difference in oil coolers. With baffles I can
easily imagine differences due to builder style/techniques. Don't both use the
same alternator setup? I believe either (if dyna I ) use the same mount.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Lloyd <brian(at)lloyd.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
>
>One of us asked to see INSTALLED weights for these engines.
>
>Why? Wouldn't the installed weights of a ???320 and a ???360 be the same
if all
>the other stuff were the same? And if they weren't the same, what would you
>then know?
The difference between the O-320 and the O-360 (parallel valve engines
only) is stroke. The additional displacement is strictly from the longer
stroke of the O-360. Given that, the difference in weight between the
O-320 core and the O-360 core is a small amount of metal in the crank, a
small amount of metal in each cylinder, and (maybe) additional metal in the
connecting rods and cases. I don't remember if the rods are identical but
I don't believe the cases are. Even so, all of this adds up to something
on the order of maybe 10 lbs max.
So the big difference between an O-320 and O-360 is not in the engine core
itself, it is in the accessories you bolt to it.
>I suppose there is a few ounces difference in oil coolers. With baffles I
can
>easily imagine differences due to builder style/techniques. Don't both
use the
>same alternator setup? I believe either (if dyna I ) use the same mount.
I am pretty sure you are right.
Brian Lloyd Lucent Technologies
brian(at)lloyd.com 3461 Robin Lane, Suite 1
http://www.livingston.com Cameron Park, CA 95682
+1.530.676.6399 - voice +1.530.676.3442 - fax O-
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
| From: | b green <rvinfo(at)Juno.com> |
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:45:36 "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
writes:
>>
> Never heard of this. Don't understand where it came from. The way
> you choose components for use in any system is that it should
> perform its intended purpose under all foreseeable conditions.
> What is meant by "high current load condition?"
Bob,
Are you saying that a master relay could be used as a starter relay?
What is the difference between the two?
How big is this
> current in amps and what fault generates it . . . and sorry,
> ya can't just say "shorted bus" or "shorted wire" . . . be
> specific as to what failure mode produces the condition you're
> studying.
It has been a number of years since I have done a Failure Mode and
Criticality Analysis to Mil-Std-1629A, but if i were doing one, I would
list the failure mode as "insulation chafes through, wire shorts to
airframe". I could be specific and say wire shorts to spar, but I don't
think it is necessary, wire shorts to airframe is a failure mode.
> We also have to deduce the manner in which any "short" will occur. The
> first design task is to eliminate the shorting modes. "there are no
phyical
> conditions possible that will produce the hard fault"
In my opinion, this is at best, extremely optimistic, and at worst,
extremely dangerous thinking. Despite ones best efforts to route wires
in the safest possible manner, any one of them can find a way to short.
Much as we might like to think that we are clairvoyant, failures
regularly occur in ways that we don't anticipate.
>>Last, can our contactor of choice open a 1000-2000 amp fault assuming
that
it might happen. The answer is yes.
Both conditions have very low orders of probability.
> Probability of both happening is so tiny it may be ignored.
I would not argue that the probability of the starter wire shorting to
the airframe is low, but you seemed to address this as a legitimate
hazard in your previous post when you said to put the master relay close
to the battery making the rest of the wire switchable. Also that is not
the end of a Failure Mode analysis, one also needs to ask what the
consequences are. In this case, I think the consequences could be
catastrophic, such a short could cause a fire, or if shorted to something
like a spar, a structural failure.
The other question one asks, as part of a Failure Mode analysis, is what
is the indication to the flight crew? In this case, it may not be
immediately obvious what is going on. It seems to me that such a short
would produce a dead electrical system and the pilot may not think to
shut off the master as a result of that.
>>So that is the question for Bob Nuckolls, can you break the circuit
>in a
>>master relay with an extremely high current load passing through? If
>the
>>answer is anything other than absolutely, I think it would be wise
>to
>>keep the length of the hot wire at a minimum.
>>
> My friend, the only absolute things I'm familar with are death
> and taxes. I'm just saying that compared to a bizillion other
> things that go demonstrably wrong on airplanes every day (go
> read the service difficulty reports) I think it's a waste of
> time and effort to worry about 1 in a million events before we
> slay all the 1 in a thousand draggons.
>
I used to work as a reliability and safety engineer in the aerospace
industry and you are right in saying we need to worry about the higher
probability events, but I am not sure that I agree with probability
guess, and if I can eliminate a potential hazard that could kill me by
simply placing a component in a different place, I will do it every time.
Bruce Green
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: Has any used Central Pneumatic tools? |
>
>I'm considering purchasing a couple of Central Pneumatic air tools from
Harbor
>Freight. They're so inexpensive, I'm a little concerned. Does anyone
have any
>experience with this brand?
>
>Thanks for the help
>
>Dean Pichon
>Arlington, MA
Dean,
The CP stuff is pretty poor quality though no worse than Campbell-Hausfeld
stuff sold at Home Depot. I would choose based on anticipated usage. For
example your gonna get a lot of use out of a drill motor so get a good one
like the Sioux that was mentioned the other day. But for stuff you use less
frequently and/or you dont require precision I would get the cheap stuff. I
have a die grinder equipped with a small scotchbrite wheel that I use to
deburr edges that is CP brand and it works well enough. And for what I
payed if it fails I'll toss it and buy another. I also have a CP brand 1" X
21" pneumatic belt sander that I use to sand edges of aluminum sheet to a
trim line after rough cutting with snips or bandsaw. This is a great tool,
way better than using a file, and also dirt cheap (mine was a used demo
model for $40).
Mike Wills
RV-4 fuse out of the jig
willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N255GH" <n255gh(at)frontiernet.net> |
What grade of aluminum tubing is used for fuel lines?
N255GH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Band Saw - Can't decide |
I made it through the emp. kit with just a hacksaw. As much as I wanted a
bandsaw, it just wasn't in the cards at the time. Now it might be - but I'm
not sure if it is a worthwhile investment anymore. Will I get a lot of use
out of it with the remaining sub-kits?
-Larry
RV-8 ailerons
email: larry(at)BowenAero.com
web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)BowenAero.com> |
| Subject: | Bowen Aero - New address |
My email and web addresses have changed. Please update any references you
may have to my old addresses.
Thanks,
-Larry
RV-8 ailerons
NEW email: larry(at)BowenAero.com
NEW web: http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Items w/ Long Lead Times |
I figure I'm 6-8 months from flying. To finish the airplane, I guess I'll
need all of the bits and pieces on-hand about 3 months earlier. What long
lead time items do I need to order in the next 2-3 months to make this
schedule? The only things I can think of are the prop (Aymar-Demuth is a 3
month +/- delivery), and interior (The Lauritson's are booked into early
summer.). I already have the panel, most of an airframe, and most of my
engine parts (see next post for a question on engine parts).
Am I missing anything?
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fuel Pump Cost/Source |
I'm about finishing buying parts for the rebuild of my O-320-D2J (No mechanial
fuel pump), and was surprised at the cost for the gear, pump, and pushrod to
convert this engine to have a fuel pump. (Note, I already have an accessory
case which will accept the fuel pump). Total on these three items is about
$600-$700, depending on supplier (I've priced Mattituck, Aircraft Specialty
Services, and Don George... Don is the least expensive).
The point(s) of this post:
1) Anyone know a better (cheaper) source for new parts?
2) Any reason I shouldn't consider used (but within spec) parts?
3) As information to anyone considering buying an engine w/o a fuel pump
and
related parts.
Off to rec.guns do some research before Oshkosh.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
Larry Bowen asked:
<< I made it through the emp. kit with just a hacksaw. As much as I wanted a
bandsaw, it just wasn't in the cards at the time. Now it might be - but I'm
not sure if it is a worthwhile investment anymore. Will I get a lot of use
out of it with the remaining sub-kits? >>
I'd say go for it. I've used mine in the last week to cut angle, the
instrument panel, the wing/fuse fairings, shims, and tons of other stuff. I
use it much more than my drill press, although the drill press is an absolute
necessity (for fly-cutting and drilling perpendicular holes). The bandsaw is
a slight luxury, but go ahead, treat yourself.
Kyle Boatright
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Besing, Paul" <PBesing(at)pinacor.com> |
| Subject: | Band Saw - Can't decide |
YES-YES-YES-YES
I wish I had one...too late now..unless you can cut a canopy with it. But
that is why I bought my Central die grinder, isn't it?
Paul Besing
>
>I made it through the emp. kit with just a hacksaw. As much as I wanted a
>bandsaw, it just wasn't in the cards at the time. Now it might be - but
I'm
>not sure if it is a worthwhile investment anymore. Will I get a lot of use
>out of it with the remaining sub-kits?
>
>-Larry
>RV-8 ailerons
>email: larry(at)BowenAero.com
>web: http://BowenAero.com
>
>
Paul Besing
Pinacor, Inc.
(800) 528-1415 ext.67697
.....Committed to being your primary distributor!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoking at Oshkosh |
Gee, I wasn't going to say any more about the EAA and hopefully
see the thread die in a bit. However, Cy Galley made comments I'd
like to respond to. Please bear with me for one more time.
>I'm sorry that you feel that way. Every time I have called or written I
>get a response and have been getting replies for over 25 years.
>When they don't agree, they tell me. Most of the time, though, they
>look into the problem and will fix it. I should say however, I am one
>of the volunteers and have been for all that time as well. I have
>gone back every year since I joined.
The clue to Cy's success is the fact that he mentioned that he's a
volunteer, maybe an insider. I'm betting that he's a regular volunteer
at Oshkosh. Alas, I have never made the trip to Oshkosh during the
convention. My only trip to Oshkosh was when I visited as a guest
when I was a member of the board of directors for the Academy of
Model Aeronautics. So, my volunteer time at Oshkosh has been
zero. However, let me assure you that I do volunteer at the chapter
level. Right now, my passion is the YE program; and, I'm hoping to
get to the magic 300 missions goal I've been working on for the past
few years. Last year, I took up one hundred seven kids. That
doesn't include all of the parents I've taken up during the program, as
well as the time, money, and wear and tear on my airplane to do
same. I think I've been paying my volunteer dues. Don't you?
Now, if I can just get the forty-six more kids I need before my
membership ends in September.
Not all of us can give the time to the EAA that we'd like. During most
of my membership with the EAA, I've been giving most of my
volunteer time to the Academy of Model Aeronautics. I sat on the
board of directors for ten years and have been an officer at some
level in the AMA for about seventeen of the almost twenty-five years
I've been a member. In fact, I'm currently an Associate Vice
President and Life member in the AMA. My Life membership was
earned from my volunteer work. I thought I'd throw that in since I
saw that Cy is a life member of the EAA.
So, what with my being a volunteer at the local level and giving a lot
of my time and money, I'd expect the EAA staff to give me an answer
to my letters, whether they agree with me or not. To date, I have yet
to get one when I've written about an issue. I do get replies from the
the YE group when I write. The rest go unanswered, just like the
one I sent the other day did. I guess one must be an insider like Cy,
or send his note to all chapters, to get a response. That should not
be; but, I'm afraid it seems more the norm based upon what I've
heard and read. Every member deserves more than that. Our
members of the AMA expect that and get it. I've also never sent a
note to AOPA that didn't get an answer. Getting the drift, here?
Whether I'm an insider, or not, should have nothing to do with
whether I'm listened to and responded to by the EAA.
>Is EAA perfect, NO! But its is much better than many other
>organizations.
Well, I guess I have to agree with that; but, it's a far cry from being
an AOPA. When it comes to listening to the membership and
responding, I must admit the AMA has the EAA beaten, too. So, I
guess better is relative to what organizations one is comparing to and
what items are important to us. So far, the EAA has deaf ears on
many of the issues we've discussed. It certainly isn't as good as any
of the other organizations I belong to, much less better.
>EAA represents us very well with the FAA. Can you imagine what it
>would be like without their intervention??
I used to think that. Honest, I really did! Then, I started watching
more closely and have come to the conclusion that AOPA is usually
one step ahead of the EAA in most things that govern us all. What
with the kit manufacturing industry getting stronger all the time, I'm
not sure they even need the EAA as much. I've heard some nasty
things said about the EAA by some of them. They aren't happy with
the EAA, either. If push comes to shove, AOPA could speak for us
at the FAA level and would do just fine. Yeah, I don't think the EAA
means that much to us at the FAA level any more. Maybe I'm wrong;
but, I just get that feeling from what I read.
>By the way. You only get out of an organization what you put in. I
>have put in my time and money. There are displays that I can point
>to in the museum that I built. There is a brick with my father's name
>that I bought in his WW2 honor. There are airplanes that fly into of
>Oshkosh every year that would not fly out if I and my volunteers
>didn't fix them safely.
>
>Cy Galley EAA 71015 (life) Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Exactly. I agree with Cy on this; but, not all of us can get as involved
with the EAA as you, Cy. That still does not excuse the EAA for not
responding to the membership. Not all of us can be insiders. We still
expect the respect we deserve as members. That's where the rub is.
We give our part and expect the EAA leaders to give their part to us.
They aren't and don't act like they give a damn.
Enough said. You guys battle it out, now. I've made my decision.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Doin' the plumbin'.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
A band saw is lots of money and takes up a lot of space. I would have loved
to have one on several cuts, but you can live without it. Some things may
take longer but whats another hour or two in 2000hours of build. At 03:11
>
>I made it through the emp. kit with just a hacksaw. As much as I wanted a
>bandsaw, it just wasn't in the cards at the time. Now it might be - but I'm
>not sure if it is a worthwhile investment anymore. Will I get a lot of use
>out of it with the remaining sub-kits?
>
>-Larry
>RV-8 ailerons
>email: larry(at)BowenAero.com
>web: http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB starting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagent.com> |
| Subject: | Band Saw - Can't decide |
>
>bandsaw...not sure if it is a worthwhile investment
>anymore. Will I get a lot of use out of it with the
> remaining sub-kits?
You can search for my past posts on my new found love for the bandsaw,
and this is a GREAT time to buy one! Harbor Freight is selling there
horizontal / vertical metal cutting bandsaw for $139 right now! I
bought essentially the same thing from Post Tool locally for $179 and I
think it's a great tool even at that price. It's *very* versitile.
It's not a $40,000 Do-All bandsaw, but it's been just great for building
an RV. I've plenty of aluminum and even 1" x 2" steel with no problem.
The slow blade speed makes for a real quiet cut, too. Especially nice
when you swing it down to horizontal position - start the cut and walk
away, it will shut itself off when it is done (you can use this time to
walk back over to your project and scratch your head).
I stuck a picture of this bandsaw up on my website:
http://www.aftershock.org/temp/bandsaw.gif
Harbor "Cheap but good enough quality" Freight : 1-800-423-2567, part #
37151-1RAA $139.
Replacement blades (1/2" x .025 x 64 1/2") are $5.99 apiece:
10 tpi 00522-0RAA
18 tpi 03097-0RAA
24 tpi 37406-1RAA
Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME
San Jose, CA Engine mounted...
President/Newsletter Editor Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
What new PRINT that comes with the S-cowl???? I got the S-cowl with my
finish kit(RV-6A) and didn't see any NEW print...... Haven't got to cowl
yet but won't be long now.
Larry RV-6A finish kit
...........break ................
>
>The new print that comes with the S-cowl is very complete. Just follow
>what it says and you'll be fine.
>
>Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strobes(was vor antenna) |
Jerry,
The strobe units I was talking about are the Whalen type. I would hope your
units wouldn't have spikes on the 14v lines running out to the wings. As
another guy said yesterday, you should be OK. I have Whalen strobes, and I
am running the wires to the wing tips and tail saparated from everything
else. Luckily I have good ol' draggy antennas on the fuselage skin of the
plane (easy to keep wires separated). I am in the process of doing all this
now so will know results in this plane later.
Larry RV-6A finish kit
>>
>**snip**
>
>I can see keeping the wires from the powerpack(s) to the strobe unit
>away from other wires, but is there a noise problem with the wire from
>the cockpit switch to the strobe powerpack??
>I,m using aeroflash units mounted on the front of each spar behind the
>landing lights and no wingtip antennas.
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond ok -6a wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Cost/Source |
No mechanical fuel pump - suggestion:
Install a second small battery and a second electric pump.
hal
> The point(s) of this post:
>
> 1) Anyone know a better (cheaper) source for new parts?
> 2) Any reason I shouldn't consider used (but within spec) parts?
> 3) As information to anyone considering buying an engine w/o a fuel
pump and
> related parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Cost/Source |
Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>
>
> No mechanical fuel pump - suggestion:
>
> Install a second small battery and a second electric pump.
>
***snip**
I was in Dallas several weeks ago and had the opportunity to look at
Will Cretsinger's 6a about a week before he test flew it. He has an
"H" series Cessna engine without a mechanical fuel pump. He has two
electric fuel pumps. One is a backup with a small back-up battery
mounted on the firewall.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Tom Green retiring from Van's |
Just thought that I would let the list know than Tom Green in technical
support at Vans is working his last day in the office tomorrow (though I
think he will be around working part time occasionally to help out).
He has been a great asset in technical support, and knowing that a lot of
you have probably benefitted from his help in the past may want to send
him a little note of thanks, and wish him the best in his new endeavors.
You should be able to use the tech support address - - - - -
- support(at)vansaircraft.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Strickland" <eric.strick(at)prodigy.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Has any used Central Pneumatic tools? |
Mike you say CP is poor quality but yet you use there tools ? Step up and
buy Snap On . The best right ? I don't think so . CP is as good as any
airtool on the market ! I use airtools everyday and have use most brands and
CP is as good as they get . Precision ? Never heard of a precision drill
before .
Eric in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wills <willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Has any used Central Pneumatic tools?
>
>
>>
>>I'm considering purchasing a couple of Central Pneumatic air tools from
>Harbor
>>Freight. They're so inexpensive, I'm a little concerned. Does anyone
>have any
>>experience with this brand?
>>
>>Thanks for the help
>>
>>Dean Pichon
>>Arlington, MA
>
>Dean,
> The CP stuff is pretty poor quality though no worse than Campbell-Hausfeld
>stuff sold at Home Depot. I would choose based on anticipated usage. For
>example your gonna get a lot of use out of a drill motor so get a good one
>like the Sioux that was mentioned the other day. But for stuff you use less
>frequently and/or you dont require precision I would get the cheap stuff. I
>have a die grinder equipped with a small scotchbrite wheel that I use to
>deburr edges that is CP brand and it works well enough. And for what I
>payed if it fails I'll toss it and buy another. I also have a CP brand 1" X
>21" pneumatic belt sander that I use to sand edges of aluminum sheet to a
>trim line after rough cutting with snips or bandsaw. This is a great tool,
>way better than using a file, and also dirt cheap (mine was a used demo
>model for $40).
>
>Mike Wills
>RV-4 fuse out of the jig
>willsm(at)manta.spawar.navy.mil
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
Buy the bandsaw, you won't be sorry. It was one of my wisest investments.
Bill Pagan
"The original and only -8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Cost/Source |
My Bellanca has an automotive diaphragm pump with a handle bolted to the arm
that is normally pushed by the cam. It works easily even without electrical
power. Takes about a stroke every 30 seconds I've been told. I use it to
fill the carb bowl before the first flight of the day and to check the fuel
system from that point for leaks. This came from the factory in 1948. No
extra battery. Not as flashy, but has done the job in about 1000 airplanes
for over 50 years.
Cy Galley - Editor BC Contact
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pump Cost/Source
>
>Hal Kempthorne wrote:
>>
>>
>> No mechanical fuel pump - suggestion:
>>
>> Install a second small battery and a second electric pump.
>>
>***snip**
>
>I was in Dallas several weeks ago and had the opportunity to look at
>Will Cretsinger's 6a about a week before he test flew it. He has an
>"H" series Cessna engine without a mechanical fuel pump. He has two
>electric fuel pumps. One is a backup with a small back-up battery
>mounted on the firewall.
>
>Jerry Calvert
>Edmond Ok -6a wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Mehrhoff" <99789978(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
No.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)BowenAero.com>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 5:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Band Saw - Can't decide
>
>I made it through the emp. kit with just a hacksaw. As much as I wanted a
>bandsaw, it just wasn't in the cards at the time. Now it might be - but
I'm
>not sure if it is a worthwhile investment anymore. Will I get a lot of use
>out of it with the remaining sub-kits?
>
>-Larry
>RV-8 ailerons
>email: larry(at)BowenAero.com
>web: http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marian Rendall & Scott Sawby" <mkr(at)netw.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
If you decide to get a band saw, get a wood cutting band saw, you can use
that for other things once your RV is finished. I have both a wood and a
metal saw and I never used the metal saw to cut aluminum. It is too slow.
The wood saw will scream through 1/8" aluminum about as fast as you can
walk and it will give you a nicer cut. I used blades that were too dull
for wood and they worked fine on aluminum. It is noisy though!
Scott Sawby RV-6A N341SS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Younie" <nyounie(at)pacificcoast.net> |
I am not sure of the weight yet. It is still in the aircraft. The
electronics and controls weigh about 2.5 pounds. The servos will be out
tomorrow and I will weigh them. The system is 14 volts and vaccum. It was
just overhaulled last year and is a two axis pilot, roll and yaw no pitch.
Many of these pilots were used in the mooney aircraft. I have flown with it
and it works just great although it has no heading bug input, just nav. It
gets all its input from a turn coordinator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoking at Oshkosh |
I still don't think you get my message Jim. If you want to change an
organization, any organization, you have to do it from within. You have to
be a member and participate.
You are right, I am an insider. I got to be an insider by participating. By
participation over many years. I have been president of EAA Chapter 75. I
ran the Spirit of St. Louis stop when it came to town. I have been writing
the Chapter newsletter non-stop without a miss for over 10 years straight.
I have over 25 years working at Emergency Aircraft Repair at Oshkosh and
have been a chairman or co-chair for about 15 years. I also am the Editor
for the Bellanca-Champion Type club. I also am a director of several other
organizations as I believe that insiders do make a difference.
Does any organization do exactly what I want? Will they change over night?
You know that answer, but in the meantime I continue to help my fellow
members of the EAA to build and fly safely.
I am glad to hear of your Young Eagle participation. However, regardless of
how strong your complaints or differences of opinion about EAA, quitting in
a snit doesn't get your voice heard. It doesn't get your message to its
leaders.
You can e-mail most anyone of the EAA employees if you have their e-mail
address. Earl Lawrence of Government programs, elawrence(at)EAA.org has been
invaluable to me, my EAA Chapter, and my type club. Ben Owen before his
retirement in January was a font of knowledge. There are many other good
people in the EAA. It takes awhile to know who to got to for what. That's
what you find out through participation.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Smoking at Oshkosh
>
>Gee, I wasn't going to say any more about the EAA and hopefully
>see the thread die in a bit. However, Cy Galley made comments I'd
>like to respond to. Please bear with me for one more time.
>
>>I'm sorry that you feel that way. Every time I have called or written I
>>get a response and have been getting replies for over 25 years.
>>When they don't agree, they tell me. Most of the time, though, they
>>look into the problem and will fix it. I should say however, I am one
>>of the volunteers and have been for all that time as well. I have
>>gone back every year since I joined.
>
>The clue to Cy's success is the fact that he mentioned that he's a
>volunteer, maybe an insider. I'm betting that he's a regular volunteer
>at Oshkosh. Alas, I have never made the trip to Oshkosh during the
>convention. My only trip to Oshkosh was when I visited as a guest
>when I was a member of the board of directors for the Academy of
>Model Aeronautics. So, my volunteer time at Oshkosh has been
>zero. However, let me assure you that I do volunteer at the chapter
>level. Right now, my passion is the YE program; and, I'm hoping to
>get to the magic 300 missions goal I've been working on for the past
>few years. Last year, I took up one hundred seven kids. That
>doesn't include all of the parents I've taken up during the program, as
>well as the time, money, and wear and tear on my airplane to do
>same. I think I've been paying my volunteer dues. Don't you?
>Now, if I can just get the forty-six more kids I need before my
>membership ends in September.
>
>Not all of us can give the time to the EAA that we'd like. During most
>of my membership with the EAA, I've been giving most of my
>volunteer time to the Academy of Model Aeronautics. I sat on the
>board of directors for ten years and have been an officer at some
>level in the AMA for about seventeen of the almost twenty-five years
>I've been a member. In fact, I'm currently an Associate Vice
>President and Life member in the AMA. My Life membership was
>earned from my volunteer work. I thought I'd throw that in since I
>saw that Cy is a life member of the EAA.
>
>So, what with my being a volunteer at the local level and giving a lot
>of my time and money, I'd expect the EAA staff to give me an answer
>to my letters, whether they agree with me or not. To date, I have yet
>to get one when I've written about an issue. I do get replies from the
>the YE group when I write. The rest go unanswered, just like the
>one I sent the other day did. I guess one must be an insider like Cy,
>or send his note to all chapters, to get a response. That should not
>be; but, I'm afraid it seems more the norm based upon what I've
>heard and read. Every member deserves more than that. Our
>members of the AMA expect that and get it. I've also never sent a
>note to AOPA that didn't get an answer. Getting the drift, here?
>Whether I'm an insider, or not, should have nothing to do with
>whether I'm listened to and responded to by the EAA.
>
>>Is EAA perfect, NO! But its is much better than many other
>>organizations.
>
>Well, I guess I have to agree with that; but, it's a far cry from being
>an AOPA. When it comes to listening to the membership and
>responding, I must admit the AMA has the EAA beaten, too. So, I
>guess better is relative to what organizations one is comparing to and
>what items are important to us. So far, the EAA has deaf ears on
>many of the issues we've discussed. It certainly isn't as good as any
>of the other organizations I belong to, much less better.
>
>>EAA represents us very well with the FAA. Can you imagine what it
>>would be like without their intervention??
>
>I used to think that. Honest, I really did! Then, I started watching
>more closely and have come to the conclusion that AOPA is usually
>one step ahead of the EAA in most things that govern us all. What
>with the kit manufacturing industry getting stronger all the time, I'm
>not sure they even need the EAA as much. I've heard some nasty
>things said about the EAA by some of them. They aren't happy with
>the EAA, either. If push comes to shove, AOPA could speak for us
>at the FAA level and would do just fine. Yeah, I don't think the EAA
>means that much to us at the FAA level any more. Maybe I'm wrong;
>but, I just get that feeling from what I read.
>
>>By the way. You only get out of an organization what you put in. I
>>have put in my time and money. There are displays that I can point
>>to in the museum that I built. There is a brick with my father's name
>>that I bought in his WW2 honor. There are airplanes that fly into of
>>Oshkosh every year that would not fly out if I and my volunteers
>>didn't fix them safely.
>>
>>Cy Galley EAA 71015 (life) Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
>
>Exactly. I agree with Cy on this; but, not all of us can get as involved
>with the EAA as you, Cy. That still does not excuse the EAA for not
>responding to the membership. Not all of us can be insiders. We still
>expect the respect we deserve as members. That's where the rub is.
> We give our part and expect the EAA leaders to give their part to us.
> They aren't and don't act like they give a damn.
>
>Enough said. You guys battle it out, now. I've made my decision.
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS (Doin' the plumbin'.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | randall(at)edt.com (Randall Henderson) |
> What new PRINT that comes with the S-cowl???? I got the S-cowl with my
> finish kit(RV-6A) and didn't see any NEW print......
I don't know what the number is, probably 60-something. It may be with
your plans if you have a recent set -- look for a very detailed CAD
drawing of the cowl installation in your plans. If you don't have it
ask Vans for it.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 (instruments/finish)
Portland, OR
http://www.edt.com/homewing
randall(at)edt.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fwd: [Fwd: Supercub] |
| From: | J&K Originals <jgh(at)iavbbs.com> |
Received from a fellow flying-club member. the EAA building he's talkilng
about is at Dalton where we usually have the spring RV MI group meeting.
---------------- Begin Forwarded Message ----------------
Can anyone help?
From: Chook190(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 16:58:57 EST
Subject: Supercub
Hi,
My name is carey from the Flint Aero R/C Club. I think we share the
same
EAA building for our club meetings. I am currently working on a 1/3
scale R/C
version of the PA-18 Supercub and am in need of some help locating a full
size
version. I am building this cub for national scale compitition and it is
imperative that the model is built exactly as a full size cub, nuts,
bolts,
seats and even a notorized certification of the FS paint from the owner
of the
aircraft.
I am running out of options and coming up empty with a cub here in
michigan.
Do you know of anyone that may be able to give me a name of someone that
owns
or knows where I can find one. I appreciate your time and I hope you can
help.
Thanks,
Carey Hook
517-770-4097
----------------- End Forwarded Message -----------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)accessus.net> |
-----Original Message-----
From: Johnny <nwaero@northwest-aero.com>
Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: JPI threats
>Not only that, but FloScan has been around for at least 25 years that I
>know of. They made fuel flow sensors for the big three before fuel
>injection came around. If I remember correctly from when a couple of my
>buddies worked there, their fuel flow sensor held a patent as well.
>
>-j-
>
>"M.Cole" wrote:
>>
>> If anyone really wants to start a muckyball. There is a company Named
>> "FloScan (r)" that produces fuel flow meters and engine scanning
meters. In the
>> boating world they are synonimous with fuel flow gauges. They may be
intrested in
>> knowing about "JPI's" little snit. Their mark is registered. Enemy of my
enemy and
>> all that.
>>
>> Tony P wrote:
>>
>> > John Forzetting wrote:
>> >
>> > > The fact is that the US Trademark office shows the word SCANNER
trademarked
>> > > 78 times in different phrases and 10 times alone as a single
word.....so
>> > > just who the heck do these people think they are????
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, unless the same word was registered as to a
competing
>> > product, it really doesn't matter. The question is whether it is
>> > distinctive as to that product, or merely a generic description already
>> > obvious or in use by others prior to registration. But it doesn't
>> > follow that the use of "fuel scan" is infringing.
>> >
>> > Consider that "Flying" is the name of a magazine, and fully
protected.
>> >
>> > As I said, I assume this "scanner" device cycles through
different
>> > inputs like a scanning radio. If JPI originated the concept, it's
>> > likely there was no generic term in existence before. Maybe "Scanner"
>> > IS a perfectly defensible registered mark. That doesn't mean "Fuel
>> > scan" is infringing, though. "Scan" is a term used in aviation for a
>> > cyclical examination of gauges that pre-existed any such product or
>> > registration.
>> >
>> > This is all just speculation, though. An expert could rapidly
decide
>> > whether JPI's position is just a bladder full of gas.
>> >
>> > Tony Pucillo
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Castigat ridendo mores.
>> >
>> > I speak only for myself unless otherwise stated. One
personality is
>> > enough, thank you.
>>
>> --
>> "If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the
police,
>> the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only
the
>> government--and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws."
>> --Edward Abbey (1927-1989), _Abbey's Road,_ p.39_(Plume, 1979)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
>
>Bob, it has been my experience, that small wires do smoke but big wires will
>weld, arc, and create fires.
>
Which is why we take the special care to make sure that
the very few conditions affecting a few feet of FAT wire
in the airplane are eliminated.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tracy Saylor <tracysaylor(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Unanswered questions |
. To every one that wrote to me with questions that wern't answered. I'm just
now learning to use a computer & somehow I lost all of the messages sent around
1-25 to 1-27-99. I have finally found them & so please have patience with me &
I'll try to get them all answered.
Tracy Saylor
Tracy Saylor wrote:
>
> Tracy Saylor's Light kit for Harmon tips is 95.00 + 10.00 S&H Ph.
> 805-933-8225 Home of the 236 mph stock engined RV -6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | PM starter "run on" |
At the suggestion of several readers, I've
updated the "booster relay" fix for PM starter
motor run-on at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/pmcntctr.pdf
Thanks for the feedback guys . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Frank van der Hulst <frankvdh(at)ihug.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Palm-Top GPS Moving Map |
Rv4flyr(at)aol.com wrote:
> I have found something that interests me strongly. I have found a company
> selling moving map software for use on a Windows CE Palmtop (i.e Casio
> Cassiopeia, Everex Freestyle, etc.).
>
> IS ANYONE OUT THERE USING THIS SETUP YET? HOW WELL DOES IT WORK?
Not using it, but I tried a laptop (TFT active-matrix, supposedly one of
the best display technologies) connected to my handheld GPS in a C172...
the display was almost impossible to read. Actually, the problem was
more the bright reflection of the windows off the screen. You really
should check out how readable your palm-top display is in direct
sunlight.
Secondly, try to check out how usable the software is in flight... if
the buttons and menus and stuff aren't easy to use, it'll be of limited
use.
Frank.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Smoking at Oshkosh |
Here, Here to Cy Galley. Without the Poberezney dream so many years ago
we wouldnt be using this forum, cause RVs and all the others wouldnt exist.
The EAA comes second to my faith but not by much.
Guess thats why we call Uncle Paul "The Pope" and my annual trip to OshKosh
each year is required just like the Muslim trek to Mecca!!
See you all at Mecca next year....
LKDaudt 888LD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:43:35 Larry Rush writes:
>
>What new PRINT that comes with the S-cowl???? I got the S-cowl with my
>finish kit(RV-6A) and didn't see any NEW print...... Haven't got to
>cowl
>yet but won't be long now.
>Larry RV-6A finish kit
>
>...........break ................
>
The drawing for the cowl installation in the RV-6(A) has been updated to
include the info for the "S" cowl (now stabdard in the finish kit BTW)
The drawings that were supplied in your finish kit should have it.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flush rivet set |
>
>I forget who taught me this, but I place a layer of masking tape over
>the shiny metal part of the flush swivel set, cutting it off right
>around the rubber surround. No black marks around the rivet. The
>tape
>gets a bit dirty and wears off after a while, but it is trivial to
>replace. I've not detected any problems with the actual setting of
>the
>rivet.
>
>Michael Pilla
>
Another material that works very well (what I prefer to use) because it
lasts for quite a while, is to use some good quality (thick, 3M type)
clear packing tape.
This also works with AN470 rivets if you put just a small little piece on
the tip of the rivet set. It helps prevent messing up the rivet finish
(they look as though they were set with a rivet squeezer.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Bernie,
We didn't use piano hinge for the rear of the top cowl or the bottom of
the bottom cowl. We fabricated .032 flanges and will attach the cowl at
these points with #6 stainless screws and nutplates. This is how I did my
six and what I recommended to Charlie. I also used a .063" plate behind the
spinner with 3, #8 nutplates per side. Over the years, I've run across
several RVers who have had the hinges behind the spinner (using the extruded
hinge material) and on the bottom of the bottom cowl break. I know of no
problems with the hinge breakage across the rear top of the top cowl but I
prefer to undo a few screws instead of threading hinge pins through the oil
check door. Also, because of the loose fit of the hinge pin in the flat
area on the top cowl, there is sometimes a "dusting" of aluminum from
movement which indicateds wear and streaks on a white airplane.
Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
><< BTW, we used flanges across the bottom and
> the top of the cowl and hinges down the side of the bottom cowl and for the
> top/bottom, horizontal connection. >>
>
>Bob Skinner,
>
>Want to explain what you mean by "flanges"?
>
>Bernie Kerr, 6A engine bay and instrument panel, SE FLa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Auto Fuse Failure Light |
>One of the things that I have heard people say, is that auto fuses would be
>OK most of the time, but you don't have an easy way to identify which fuse
>blows while in flight. I had been thinking about ways to wire up a failure
>indicator LED when I happened to notice the solution hanging on the rack in
>the auto fuse section of a TRAK auto store.
What value is there in knowing that a fuse has blown? The reasons
that some device in your airplane fails to function range from
simple disconncts to end of life (bulb burns out, brushes worn,
etc.). Very few system failures result in opened circuit protection.
So what value is there in knowing that something doesn't work because
the fuse is opened or that it's some other problem that didn't
open the fuse? In either case, the system doesn't work and
plan-B has to be implemented.
What is the first indication pilots have that something is
amiss? You flip a switch and the expected thing doesn't
happen. A flag drops on an instrument. A pointer goes to
zero . . . considering ALL the things that will produce
the same dead system, why is is useful to know that a fuse
is popped? And if it were popped, do you really want to
replace it in flight?
I wonder if the annunciator panel recently added to the
EXP-Bus hasn't fueled new anxiety amongst our fellow
builders. First the product offers to replace electro-mechanical
breakers having lots of parts with solid state breakers
having only one part. Good . . . parts count down, reliablity
up and cost is down. Now it adds an annunciator system
to show when a circuit is functioning. Parts count
up, added cost, and light bulbs can lie.
Consider how many C,B or P single engine airplanes have
an indicator light to show that the landing light is on?
Fuel pump running? Pitot heat on? None that I've flown.
How do we know if those things are working? Ammeter goes
up, runway is visible, fuel pressure is up. If the system
dies, does the annunciator light go out? No, it powers up
from the same souce as the device . . . flip the switch,
the annunciator light comes on and something MAY work.
Suppose any of those devices is bad, the annunciator is
still on. Or in the case of your suggestion about
the fuse annunciators, the fuse is still good.
So the question remains, what value is there in
annunciating breakers popped, fuses good, or power
switch closed when there are failure modes that
the annunciation doesn't catch.
I'll suggest you're better off using system performance
results to tell if things are working than to waste
time, money and misplaced confidence in any form
of annunciation that has no way to make your experience
any safer. Worse yet, it may detract from safety by being
a distraction or providing misleading information.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Glover <glovebox(at)smartt.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Has any used Central Pneumatic tools? |
Eric Strickland wrote:
>
>
> Mike you say CP is poor quality but yet you use there tools ? Step up and
> buy Snap On . The best right ? I don't think so . CP is as good as any
> airtool on the market ! I use airtools everyday and have use most brands and
> CP is as good as they get .
*snip*
Let me clarify: As long as I can remember, CP was CHICAGO PNEUMATIC.
Central Pneumatic sounds like and probably is an import knockoff.
I don't want to start any "tool wars", but I think it would be wise
to avoid confusion at this point.
Tom Glover
RV-6a 'starting real soon now'
Surrey BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls(at)aeroelectric.com> |
| Subject: | Re: External Solenoid Jumper |
A
>> Never heard of this. Don't understand where it came from. The way
>> you choose components for use in any system is that it should
>> perform its intended purpose under all foreseeable conditions.
>> What is meant by "high current load condition?"
>Bob,
>
>Are you saying that a master relay could be used as a starter relay?
>What is the difference between the two?
Battery master relays are intended to switch lightly loaded
and operate continuously but still carry momentary cranking
currents. Their coil reistance is on the order of 15 ohms
and they only draw about 800-900 mA in operation and don't
get very hot.
Starter contactors are intermittant devices designed to
make and break high current flows repeatedly. It gets this
special skill by being an intermittant device with a coil resistance
on the order of 3-4 ohms and draws 3-4 amps in spite of the
fact that the only thing its solenoid coil has to do is
close some contacts. VERY high contact pressure is what
makes it last.
The fact that battery master contactors are not INTENDED
to repeatedly switch high currents is probably where the
myth of instant high fault current failure originated.
In the event the battery master is called upon to do its
job and unhook things in a fault condition, it may be
expected to do so without suffering terminal meltdown.
Now, you don't want to subject it to dozens of those
events . . . it DOES have limits.
>
> How big is this
>> current in amps and what fault generates it . . . and sorry,
>> ya can't just say "shorted bus" or "shorted wire" . . . be
>> specific as to what failure mode produces the condition you're
>> studying.
>
>It has been a number of years since I have done a Failure Mode and
>Criticality Analysis to Mil-Std-1629A, but if i were doing one, I would
>list the failure mode as "insulation chafes through, wire shorts to
>airframe". I could be specific and say wire shorts to spar, but I don't
>think it is necessary, wire shorts to airframe is a failure mode.
. . . and in the very few cases where I've seen long battery
cables come to the sheetmetal under the floorboards of a
Cessna, the fault burned away a little alluminum and it was
all over. Think about how hard a contactor manufacturer
works to get contacts rated at hundreds of amps to stay mashed
together in order to handle this current normally. How does
this kind of scenario get repeated in the process of failing
a wire such that a battery becomes the current limiting device
in the system?
>> We also have to deduce the manner in which any "short" will occur. The
>> first design task is to eliminate the shorting modes. "there are no
>phyical
>> conditions possible that will produce the hard fault"
>
>In my opinion, this is at best, extremely optimistic, and at worst,
>extremely dangerous thinking. Despite ones best efforts to route wires
>in the safest possible manner, any one of them can find a way to short.
>Much as we might like to think that we are clairvoyant, failures
>regularly occur in ways that we don't anticipate.
Then you'd better start worrying about wings falling off, landing
gear being uprooted and propellers flying away on their own. There
are some things we know enough about in airplane design and
construction to say that "the probability of this event is so
low as to be a non-issue. I.e. we've designed a 'safe' airplane."
If we cannot route a 2AWG battery cable with the same confidence
that we attach wings . . . . well . . . I should take down my
shingle and see if McDonalds will have me . . .
>>>Last, can our contactor of choice open a 1000-2000 amp fault assuming
>that it might happen. The answer is yes.
>Both conditions have very low orders of probability.
>> Probability of both happening is so tiny it may be ignored.
>
>I would not argue that the probability of the starter wire shorting to
>the airframe is low, but you seemed to address this as a legitimate
>hazard in your previous post when you said to put the master relay close
>to the battery making the rest of the wire switchable.
Not at all . . . the rational for battery master location is to
have the last ditch disconnect for aircraft power be as close
to the source as possible. THAT's the feller responsable for
shutting things down as cold as possible when there's smoke
in the cockpit. If that's the battery master contactor's
job, then we don't need to duplicate that task on the starter
contactor as well . . . and by moving the starter contactor
out on the firewall, we have an opportunity to let the starter
feed line double as alternator b-lead feed and get one more
noisy, fat-wire out of the cockpit.
>. . . . Also that is not
>the end of a Failure Mode analysis, one also needs to ask what the
>consequences are. In this case, I think the consequences could be
>catastrophic, such a short could cause a fire, or if shorted to something
>like a spar, a structural failure.
If structural failures are happening to your airplane, I'll
suggest that electrical fault managment is the least of your
concerns . . . and shutting off the battery master and alternator
switch covers all the electrical bases.
>The other question one asks, as part of a Failure Mode analysis, is what
>is the indication to the flight crew? In this case, it may not be
>immediately obvious what is going on. It seems to me that such a short
>would produce a dead electrical system and the pilot may not think to
>shut off the master as a result of that.
If a short produces a dead electrical sytem, then one of two
conditions have to be in effect (1) the fault current has
cleared (breaker or fuse opened) or (2) 200,000 to a million
watt-seconds of energy from a faulted battery is doing some
mischief somewhere in a matter that's hard to ignore. Mechanically
speaking, condition (2) is very easy to prevent with very
ordinary systems architecture that's been demonstrated in
a lot of single engine airplanes over the past 50 years.
>I used to work as a reliability and safety engineer in the aerospace
>industry and you are right in saying we need to worry about the higher
>probability events, but I am not sure that I agree with probability
>guess, and if I can eliminate a potential hazard that could kill me by
>simply placing a component in a different place, I will do it every time.
But it's so easy prove the reliablity of your system.
As you install major gage wiring in the airplane, deduce
the hazards as you go. How about under floorboards? What
could possibly damage the wire? Under the cowl? Firewall
penetration? After your wire is installed . . select any
combination of tools from your box and imagine what you
would have to bend, bash or poke to put that wire in danger.
If a danger is deduced, eliminate it. I'd be surprised if
you find any that are not preceded by serious, disassembly
of the airplane.
A gust of wind in the flare can flip your airplane and get
you killed . . . do you plan to never fly? I can't control
the wind but I can most assuredly control failure modes
in my electrical system and reduce consequences to mear
maintenance issues.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< A mind abhors a vacuum . . . >
< When deprived of facts, >
< our fantasies are generally >
< much worse than reality. >
================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
I think you will get a lot of use from a band saw. I use mine constantly along
with the 1 inch belt sander they are indespensible. I like the standard type
verticle saw--not the kind that is horozontal--used for cutting extrsuion and
pipe. That type would be useful but not as versitle. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Has any used Central Pneumatic tools? |
Central Pneumatic is not the same company as Chicago Pneumatic--just in case
there is some confusion. I like Sioux Drills and Chicago Rivet Guns. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternate Static Air |
For those of you that have set your aircraft up for IFR flight, what did you
do for alternate static air?
Rick McBride
RV-8 80027
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
In a message dated 2/18/99 6:58:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
larry(at)BowenAero.com writes:
<< larry(at)BowenAero.com >>
LARRY,
I just finished the wings and didn't need a band saw. i used a chop saw to
make all the angle cuts go faster and an die grinder with scotchbright really
did a quick easy job of it ,
good luck
scott
was winging it in tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Air |
I placed a "T" fitting in the static line behind/under the instrument
panel with a removable AN cap. You could probably place a valve there
instead. But, I simply unscrew the cap and get cabin static - not the
best, but better than none.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW
RICKRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> For those of you that have set your aircraft up for IFR flight, what did you
> do for alternate static air?
>
> Rick McBride
> RV-8 80027
>
________________________________________________________________________________
In a message dated 2/19/99 2:39:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, bskinr(at)trib.com
writes:
<< We didn't use piano hinge for the rear of the top cowl or the bottom of
the bottom cowl. We fabricated .032 flanges and will attach the cowl at
these points with #6 stainless screws and nutplates. This is how I did my
six and what I recommended to Charlie. I also used a .063" plate behind the
spinner with 3, #8 nutplates per side. >>
Thanks BobS for the reply regarding flanges. Are you using flathead or
roundhead screws?
Bernie Kerr, 6A engine bay, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Air |
>
> I placed a "T" fitting in the static line behind/under the instrument
> panel with a removable AN cap. You could probably place a valve there
> instead. But, I simply unscrew the cap and get cabin static - not the
> best, but better than none.
What difference do you see between the two?
I know a fellow who decided not to plump an external source at all and
just uses cockpit air for static - claims his airspeed's as accurate
as anyone's.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
Hangin' wing ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <RVReynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Air |
RICKRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
> For those of you that have set your aircraft up for IFR flight, what did you
do for alternate static air?
I have installed a AN5814 heated pitot/static (dynamic/static) as the
primary and I am using Van's for the secondary. AN5812 pitot is just
the dynamic (airspeed)
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, got four fuselage skins fitted!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
In a message dated 2/19/99 7:47:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, ABAYMAN(at)aol.com
writes:
<< LARRY,
I just finished the wings and didn't need a band saw. i used a chop saw to
make all the angle cuts go faster and an die grinder with scotchbright really
did a quick easy job of it ,
good luck
scott
was winging it in tampa >>
Larry, I do not beleive a band saw is a worthwhile tool. My partner has a very
large and nice one. After the the tail kit we hauled it back home to his house
and he has taken a few parts to his home to cut, but I find it easier to cut
most of them with either a hacksaw or with a sabre saw. I use a sabre saw more
than most people I think. Anything .125 inch or less that is big enough to
support is cut with a sabresaw. I use a very fine tooth that has the wavy
pattern and a slow running saw that has a roller support in the rear. I can
cut a more accurate line with it than with the band saw.
Bernie Kerr, engine bay 6A, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tom Barnes <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
I can't seem to find a dealer for PPG paint products. I've wasted hours
looking through various sources. If you know of a way to find a regional
source, please inform me. I tried www.ppg.com but that is more corporate
related. Our yeller pages doesn't seem to have anything either.
Thanks,
Tom Barnes NW Chicago suburbs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Bob,
Are there any photos of this setup on the Web? I think I know what you're
describing, but I would like to see it.
Steve Soule
Huntington, Vermont
-----Original Message----- We didn't use piano hinge for
the rear of the top cowl or the bottom of
the bottom cowl. We fabricated .032 flanges and will attach
the cowl at
these points with #6 stainless screws and nutplates. This
is how I did my
six and what I recommended to Charlie.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Runway Booklet "Orders" |
Ron,
I called the Illinois Department of Transportation, Division of Aeronautics
at the number you gave and a very nice lady took my name and address and
said she would send the book right out to me. Thanks for the info. I'll
still tell you when I get it though. ;-) AL
>Runway Developers-to-be: >Yesterday (2/17) I mailed the booklet to:
(SNIP)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Anderson Ed" <anderson_ed(at)bah.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Air |
Only difference I can detect is that altimeter appears to increase in
altitude by 50 ft when using cabin static. Airspeed appears to jump
about 2 mph. Guess that means I fly faster with cabin static {:>}.
Ed
Mike Thompson wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I placed a "T" fitting in the static line behind/under the instrument
> > panel with a removable AN cap. You could probably place a valve there
> > instead. But, I simply unscrew the cap and get cabin static - not the
> > best, but better than none.
>
> What difference do you see between the two?
> I know a fellow who decided not to plump an external source at all and
> just uses cockpit air for static - claims his airspeed's as accurate
> as anyone's.
>
> Mike Thompson
> Austin, TX
> -6 N140RV (Reserved)
> Hangin' wing ribs
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing kit for sale |
All,
Another builder asked us to post this message. His wife decided he needs
a
quick-build instead of doing it all the long way. So he wants to sell his
wing kit. His name is David Carter and you can contact him at 409-722-7259.
George and Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gardner, Douglas (GA44)" <Douglas.Gardner(at)IAC.honeywell.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8A Tank Fitting |
I'm doing the final tank installation on my fuel tanks, and having
problems with the tank skin not laying down flat on the W-423 joint
plate between the No. 8
screws on the tank side. The spacing between the 8's is 2 1/2 in. which
seems large. I have tried bending both the joint plate and the adjoining
tank skin
down with some improvement, but I thought I'd ask for advise at this
point. The bottom side fits fine.
Looks like adding several No. 6 screws/nutplates between the 8's would
solve the problem.
Anyone else had this problem ??
Doug Gardner
RV-8A 80717
Wings almost finished, fuselage in shipping
Palm Harbor, Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pat Kirkpatrick <rv6flyer(at)netscape.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide] |
Larry and others pondering the same thing...This is fairly long but good info
in my opinion.
I tried a band saw it was nice to have but I found a combination that worked
better FOR ME and sold the saw. This can also save you some big bucks.
At Home Depot and such places they sell a aluminum cutting saw blade for a
circular saw or a table saw. This thing works great as long as you keep the
blade lubed with some Boelube every once in a while. If you don't the teeth
can plug up and it takes a few minutes to pick the alumium out. i use this for
"heavy" cutting or "production" cutting. I use the next tool for everything
else.
The other handy thing is the cutoff wheels that Vans supplies in the finnish
kit. They are availible from Granger and some other major industrial tool
suppliers or from Vans. They cost about $1.25 a peice and I have used about 15
to complete a kit. I discover these about time I was starting my wing kit. You
put them on a die grinder (Central Pneumatic just fine)and you will soon find
it the handiest tool around. It cuts sheet, angle, bar, plexi, fiberglass, and
even makes julien fries (whatever they are). If you get the thicker ones they
are great for shaping fiberglass cutouts by using them like a portable disk
sander. This has saved me HOURS of hard work and is extremely portable. The
only drawback is major air usage from the compressor. If you have less than a
5 HP compressor you may find youself having to wait every once in a while for
the air to build up again. But I'd bet its still faster than a band saw.
Good luck whith whatever you decide.
Pat Kirkpatrick
Rio Rancho NM
RV-6A FAA inspection in 1 week. 2 Years to the day from when I started.
More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wayne bonesteel <wayneb(at)oakweb.com> |
Kyle I am at about same place as you and had to do same as you on fuel
pump except I had to buy an accessory case, mine wasn't even machined
for fuel pump. I bought yellow tagged used gear and push rod from
Wentworth Aircraft total cost $219. rebuilt fuel pump from ACS about
$150. If your acc case did not come with your engine check the oil
slinger at the camshaft, I had a case that fit but wrong oil slinger.
good luck. Wayne
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I'm about finishing buying parts for the rebuild of my O-320-D2J (No mechanial
> fuel pump), and was surprised at the cost for the gear, pump, and pushrod to
> convert this engine to have a fuel pump. (Note, I already have an accessory
> case which will accept the fuel pump). Total on these three items is about
> $600-$700, depending on supplier (I've priced Mattituck, Aircraft Specialty
> Services, and Don George... Don is the least expensive).
>
> The point(s) of this post:
>
> 1) Anyone know a better (cheaper) source for new parts?
> 2) Any reason I shouldn't consider used (but within spec) parts?
> 3) As information to anyone considering buying an engine w/o a fuel
pump and
> related parts.
>
> Off to rec.guns do some research before Oshkosh.
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Keith Marsland <kmarsland(at)permond.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce reply |
I am a RV6 owner in the fuselage stage. I don't recall ANYTIME recently
seeing comments or anything from any of the competitors to AS&S. I applaud
the fact that a company will admit it can and does make mistakes and tries
to minimize them. I am astounded that the president of the company takes
the time and cares enough to read our listers comments. Way to go Jim.
That kind of customer support goes a long way.
Keith Marsland
-----Original Message-----
From: Aircraft Spruce & Specialty [SMTP:spruce(at)deltanet.com]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 1999 6:34 PM
Subject: RV-List: Aircraft Spruce reply
Specialty)
Dear Jim Sears,
I have read your latest response directed to "listeners" in the RV group on
the web. I am one of those listeners and wanted to give you a brief
response.
First, I do understand that you have a little respect for our company or
me. You have made that very clear. I stand by our product quality, our
service, and our prices. I have never claimed that our company is perfect.
We've made mistakes in the past, and despite our efforts to avoid them, I
am sure they will happen in the future. If they do, we will resolve them
immediately. As for pricing, our policy is clear. If any competitor is
currently selling the same item for less, we will match the price. In
response to your comment that our price on an engine part was "gouging"
($76 vs. $58), we are not factory direct on many engine parts as Mattituck
is; we have to buy through a distributor at higher cost. Still, we would
gladly have matched their price on request and absorbed the difference;
that is our price guarantee.
If you have found Wicks to be superior to ours in terms of service and
prefer to use them instead, you are certainly entitled to do so. They are
a good company who buys a lot from Aircraft Spruce and we buy some items
from them as well. As for the service that you described as the kind you
like, I can assure you that Aircraft Spruce also delivers superior service
to many, many customers every day.
I think that you have made your point of view quite clear to all interested
parties on the RV newsgroup and if you do not feel we deserve your
business, I would not encourage you to give it to us. We will continue to
work hard to provide excellent products, prices, and service for every
customer who choosed Aircraft Spruce as their supplier.
Sincerely,
Jim Irwin
President, Aircraft Spruce
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AIRCRAFT SPRUCE & SPECIALTY CO.
225 Airport Circle
Corona, CA 90270 U.S.A.
Tele: 909-372-9555
Fax: 909-372-0555
Order Desk: 800-824-1930
Customer Service: 800-861-3192
Email: info@aircraft-spruce.com
WWW: http://www.aircraft-spruce.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | Brake,fuel, vent lines thru fuselage |
I'm in the process of placing the holes for the brake, fuel and fuel vent
lines that go thru the fuselage at the wing. The plans have no dimensions
as to where to make these exit holes, especially the for the brakes.
Can anyone suggest some positions relative to the bulhead and spar and the
2 horizontals in that area? Thanks!!
Dan
Dan Wiesel
Interlink Recruiting
408-551-6554
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cecilth(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
I didn't get my band saw till almost finished with the wings and wish I
had got it sooner. I use it for many other little 'projects' also. Go for
it, you won't regret.
Cecil
Thousand Oaks, CA
writes:
>
>I made it through the emp. kit with just a hacksaw. As much as I
>wanted a
>bandsaw, it just wasn't in the cards at the time. Now it might be -
>but I'm
>not sure if it is a worthwhile investment anymore. Will I get a lot
>of use
>out of it with the remaining sub-kits?
>
>-Larry
>RV-8 ailerons
>email: larry(at)BowenAero.com
>web: http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E.Capen" <Ralph.E.Capen(at)mci.com> |
| Subject: | Raleigh, NC visit |
Folks,
I'll be visiting one of my (companies) customers in Raleigh, NC from
the 22nd through the 26th of Feb.
Anyone in that area with a RV6A (any stage - though I still haven't
had a ride) that would like a visitor for a few hours please let me
know directly so we can get together.
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
RV6A Emp
Dallas, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com> |
| Subject: | brake line repost |
This is a repost, must have forgotten the signature line, I'm building a RV6A
I'm in the process of placing the holes for the brake, fuel and fuel vent
lines that go thru the fuselage at the wing. The plans have no dimensions
as to where to make these exit holes, especially the for the brakes.
Can anyone suggest some positions relative to the bulhead and spar and the
2 horizontals in that area? Thanks!!
Dan Wiesel
RV6a QB starting finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinr(at)trib.com> |
Bernie,
On my RV6, I used flush stainless steel screws & washers both top and
bottom and this installation has worked out very well. I visited with
Charlie about possibly using truss head on the bottom (for possibly a little
additional strength) and countersunk on the top. It's easy to change over
to countersunk screws at a latter date, if desired. On Charlie's 6A, we
used 8 screws across the top of the cowl and 6 on each side of the bottom cowl.
The Type "S" cowl is thinner than the old polyester cowl, even with the
addition of 2 layers of fiberglass which will complicate machine
countersinking a bit. We'll clamp a cutter pilot "holder" on the back side
of the cowl when we machine countersink the fiberglass.
Bob Skinner RV-6 460 hrs. Buffalo, WY bskinr(at)trib.com
><< We didn't use piano hinge for the rear of the top cowl or the bottom of
> the bottom cowl. We fabricated .032 flanges and will attach the cowl at
> these points with #6 stainless screws and nutplates. This is how I did my
> six and what I recommended to Charlie. I also used a .063" plate behind the
> spinner with 3, #8 nutplates per side. >>
>
>Thanks BobS for the reply regarding flanges. Are you using flathead or
>roundhead screws?
>
>Bernie Kerr, 6A engine bay, SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide] |
I use a combination blade (wood blade) on my table saw. It cuts 1/8 inch like
butter. Thinner than .063 stock needs to be cut on a piece of board but I use
a
Prosnip then.
hal
> At Home Depot and such places they sell a aluminum cutting saw blade for a
> circular saw or a table saw.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mitch Faatz <mfaatz(at)sagent.com> |
| Subject: | Band Saw diatribe for those with insomnia |
>
>I tried a band saw it was nice to have but I found a
>combination that worked better FOR ME and sold
>the saw...other handy thing is the cutoff wheels...
I, like many of you, considered myself the "Norton Wheel Pro", and cut
just about everything with the cut-off wheel. Angles, canopy, cowl,
etc. No problem. But it was when I was trying to cut my 2" x 2.5" x
1/8" tank support brackets when I realized it was the *wrong* tool for
the job. Out in the hangar with my air compressor running full time for
30 minutes and I hadn't finished my initial cuts on the first angle.
Covered with aluminum dust.
The next night I reappeared at my hangar with my new bandsaw in a box
and assembled it in place. I clamped the big ass angle in place, and
what a joy when I turned on the bandsaw for the first time - 80 RPM is
very quiet! I layed the cutting frame down on the angle stock and
walked away. Before I knew it, it shut itself off after completing the
cut. All the aluminum was in a neat pile under the cut, not hanging in
the air and dusted across my face, hair, and clothing. I'm telling ya,
it beats the hell out of the cut-off wheel for many things. It also
"feels better" than running a 3-4 HP motor (losing part of that to heat)
to power a loud compressor.
Now it's a heck of a lot easier to whip a piece through the bandsaw or
clamp the piece in the bandsaw and lower the blade to slice through it.
No extra clamps to use, no uncoiling the air line and hooking up the
cut-off tool, and no cleaning up aluminum dust from my hair, face,
clothes, workbench, and floor.
I will definitely agree that a bad bandsaw really really sucks - I tried
a cheap wood-cutting variable speed bandsaw from Harbor Freight thinking
that the lower speeds would be fine. Well, I couldn't cut a straight
line through cheese with that piece of crap. But this horz/vert metal
cutting bandsaw is a real nice addition to the garage.
But like most tools, you can certainly build an RV without one.
- Mitch "Does not own Harbor Freight stock" Faatz
Mitchell Faatz N727MF (reserved) RV-6AQME
San Jose, CA Engine mounted...
President/Newsletter Editor Bay Area RVators
http://www.skybound.com/BARV
http://www.aftershock.org/rv.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joa" <joa(at)deschutes.net> |
| Subject: | dimple dies for breakstem rivets |
What dimple dies would you all suggest for 120 degree pull rivets- both 1/8"
(head width is .210") and 5/32" (width is .245"). Both rivets are really
shallow compared to a solid rivet (which is 100 degrees.) The old-timer I
spoke with said to just use a standard 3/32" for both of them since it's
"close enough."
Thanks!
Joa
www.deschutes.net/~co291
"Vaircraft/CH-601 Building Page"
_________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | halk(at)sybase.com (Hal Kempthorne) |
| Subject: | Re: Precision Drill - was Has any used Central Pneumatic tools? |
Hi yall,
An example of a precision drill press is the $99 one which is quite adequate for
building an RV. It may have a wobbly chuck but that it the type of machine.
For hand drills I can't make much sense of what precision might be except that
drill bits can walk as all know and bent ones don't do too well.
The big error in drill presses is due to cheaply made quills. If you move the
handle down an inch and then try to move the chuck from side to side you will
see what I mean. A high grade machine won't wobble as much. A builder hint
here is to keep the distance between drill point and work at a minimum. With a
hand drill this makes no sense of course.
Punching holes in the sheet metal we use needs no more precision than the
cheapest tools provide. If the hole is not located to specification, that is a
reflection of your ability to hold the hand drill or with drill press, having
too much distance between work and drill point. If the hole is not "perfectly"
round, the rivet will not care as it will mush out into the hole. Unsteady
holding of a hand drill, pushing too hard etc make for lower quality holes. I
would expect that a fast turning air drill makes nicer holes than a battery job.
I use five hand drills. Two BD battery jobs - one of which is usually dead, one
3/8 plug in drill, a cheap well used ATS air drill which works just fine but has
no muffler any more and a new Avery CP which I like a lot. It speeds up work to
have a different tool in each drill. I prefer this to one $250 drill but if I
was planning on building full time for many more years (or rich), I'd have five
of them!
Have you ever seen a multi-spindle drill press? They have them that drill
dozens of holes in one shot!
Hal Kempthorne
BS Industrial Engineering (Tooling) many years ago.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Rush <krush(at)iquest.net> |
Guys,
I found the print...sheet#63....nice drawing......I just forgot I had seen
it earlier. Much better than info for std cowl...??
Sorry for the fuss,
Larry RV-6A finish kit
>>................break ................
>>What new PRINT that comes with the S-cowl???? I got the S-cowl with my
>>finish kit(RV-6A) and didn't see any NEW print......
>>
>>Larry RV-6A finish kit
>>
>>...........break ................
>>
>The drawing for the cowl installation in the RV-6(A) has been updated to
>include the info for the "S" cowl (now stabdard in the finish kit BTW)
>The drawings that were supplied in your finish kit should have it.
>
>
>Scott McDaniels
-
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
sdsmith(at)cin.net, irving(at)innercite.com
| Subject: | Team Rocket Visits Czech Republic |
After hundreds of emails back and forth to the Czech Republic, the time came
for Team Rocket to visit the HPA factory located in Kralupy, a small town
outside of Prague. We met with the HPA crew and lead engineer and spent the
next 6 days reviewing everything that was set up to support the Harmon
Rocket
II Quick-build program.
The HPA lead engineer is extremely talented with a Master's degree in
engineering stress analysis. His vast experience has been accumulated
through
extensive studies at the Czech Technical University of Prague and the
Military Academy of Brno and stress test and analyze programs like the L 139
Albatross program in Aircraft Research and Test Institute laboratories in
Prague. The use of his technical skills in stress analysis has now been
focused on the Rocket.
The Rocket is now on the CAD computer system. Every part has been analyzed
for stress and proper sizing and fit. All skins have been set up on the
computer for pre-punch hole location. Parts can be redesigned for better fit
or strength right there on the computer. Our new gear legs, engine mount,
and
upper and lower longeron firewall attachments were redesigned for optimal
strength and fit.
All parts previously purchased at Van's or John Harmon's are now being
produced by HPA. We reviewed all the dies that are being used to stamp out
wing ribs and bulkheads. Processes of stamping out parts, heat treatment,
and
milling were also reviewed and found to be superbly equated and planned.
Parts
are being made in bulk and in such a manner to minimize waste material and
save cost.
Precision steel jigs for the Rocket have been constructed for exact
locating of key parts. This becomes very critical for operations such as
pre-
drilling the wing incidence holes, bulkhead placement, and main to aft spar
location.
Quality of workmanship was found to be excellent. Each member of the crew
took a great deal of pride in producing the type of end product we wanted to
see.
The Harmon Rocket II is no longer 'just another homebuilt' airplane. It is
now a
production scale Quick-build kit, designed and assembled by professionals.
This will raise it head and shoulders above the rest!
In summary, our trip was very successful. Team Rocket would like to extend
a heart-felt "thank you" to HPA and its staff for their outstanding
hospitality and
kindness.
Your Turn Is Coming....
Mark Frederick
Scott Brown
Team Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "joseph.wiza" <planejoe(at)flnet.com> |
| Subject: | Another ascention |
Friend of mine asked me to put this on the net. N88WG made a successful
maiden flight today. RV6A, 0320, Ed Sterba prop 68-72. The flight lasted
about 45 minutes, RPM would not exceed 2450, at 4000' cyl head temp at 500
deg reducing rpm to 2200 brought it back down to 400. Right wing was heavy,
with full left trim the aircraft still banked sharply to the right when
releasing aileron control. Wing incidence checked out ok some of the rocket
scientist standing around said squeezing the trailing edge of the right
aileron (It appears the ends of the ailerons could be squeezed some) could
this cause the right wing to be this heavy dont want to start fixing until
we have heard from the learned. Thanks in advance.
RV6A/Finsih kit dim light visable could be my imagination though.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LKDAUDT2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing kit for sale |
For what aircraft Goerge?/ Pleeze
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pagan <pagan(at)CBOSS.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8A Tank Fitting |
Doug,
I had a little problem with the tank skin sticking up a little. I used the
edge rolling tool and rolled the edge of the tank a little. They fit 100%
better after this. Sam Buchanan has a good picture and product report on
his website on this tool.
Bill Pagan
"The original and only -8A builders page on the web"
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9749/william.html
>
>
>I'm doing the final tank installation on my fuel tanks, and having
>problems with the tank skin not laying down flat on the W-423 joint
>plate between the No. 8
>screws on the tank side. The spacing between the 8's is 2 1/2 in. which
>seems large. I have tried bending both the joint plate and the adjoining
>tank skin
>down with some improvement, but I thought I'd ask for advise at this
>point. The bottom side fits fine.
>Looks like adding several No. 6 screws/nutplates between the 8's would
>solve the problem.
>
>Anyone else had this problem ??
>
>Doug Gardner
>RV-8A 80717
>Wings almost finished, fuselage in shipping
>Palm Harbor, Fla
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <dwalsh(at)ecentral.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another ascention |
joseph.wiza wrote:
>
> Friend of mine asked me to put this on the net. N88WG made a successful
> maiden flight today. RV6A, 0320, Ed Sterba prop 68-72. The flight lasted
> about 45 minutes, RPM would not exceed 2450, at 4000' cyl head temp at 500
> deg reducing rpm to 2200 brought it back down to 400. Right wing was heavy,
> with full left trim the aircraft still banked sharply to the right when
> releasing aileron control. Wing incidence checked out ok some of the rocket
> scientist standing around said squeezing the trailing edge of the right
> aileron (It appears the ends of the ailerons could be squeezed some) could
> this cause the right wing to be this heavy dont want to start fixing until
> we have heard from the learned. Thanks in advance.
>
> RV6A/Finsih kit dim light visable could be my imagination though.
>
No! don't squeeze right wing aileron.
For the condition you describe the fix is to squeeze the left aileron!!
Squeeze (sharpen) the edge of the aileron on the wing you want to make heavy.
Been there done that. Strangely enough the condition you describe seems to be
the norm?? I have no idea why. It is just what mine did. The faster I went
the more it wanted to roll right.
You want to slip up on it slowly especially if you haven't done all the
streamlining stuff yet. I got to do it a couple more times later on as it
started going faster. Rudder trim is a whole different story and seemingly
unrelated.
Good Luck
D Walsh
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide |
I've got a reasonable wood working shop, and for a long time used my table saw
and miterbox to cut aluminum. A few months ago I was cutting a small peice of
aluminum and it caught the blade and drew my hand dangerously close to the blade.
That afternoon, I went out and bought a horiz/vert metal band saw and I
wonder why I didn't buy it sooner. It works great and it's a lot safer. I'd
like to keep all my fingers.
Brian Eckstein
6A Fuselage nearly finished
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
the "s" cowl is standard now for the 6(A) finish kit? i was told that van's
would raise all the kit prices at the end of the year (as far as i can tell,
they did not), so i ordered and paid for my finish kit in late december. i
also paid extra for the "s" cowl. if that is now standard, will i get a
refund? the kit won't even be shipped for another couple of months.
louis cappucci
6A-QB
mamaroneck, ny
> The drawing for the cowl installation in the RV-6(A) has been updated to
> include the info for the "S" cowl (now stabdard in the finish kit BTW)
> The drawings that were supplied in your finish kit should have it.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <rv8er(at)doitnow.com> |
| Subject: | Re: brake line repost |
Dan: I spent many hours debating this exact question on my QB....find out
where your wings will go, and draw a template on the side of the fuse. Put
the lines anywhere where the wing will cover them up. Forward of the spar,
aft of the wing attach bracket. There is nothing else in there to get in
the way. I would suggest putting an AN bulkhead in the fuse, and then
making steel braided hose to go between the fuse and the tanks. Same goes
for the brake lines. Either with alum tube or hose will be fine. Hose is
just a little easier to bend in funky shapes for the fuel tanks if you need
to.
Paul Besing
RV-6A (197AB) Arizona
http://www.dointow.com/~rv8er
Finish Kit
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Wiesel <dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com>
Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 6:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: brake line repost
>
>This is a repost, must have forgotten the signature line, I'm building a
RV6A
>
>I'm in the process of placing the holes for the brake, fuel and fuel vent
>lines that go thru the fuselage at the wing. The plans have no dimensions
>as to where to make these exit holes, especially the for the brakes.
>Can anyone suggest some positions relative to the bulhead and spar and the
>2 horizontals in that area? Thanks!!
>
>Dan Wiesel
>RV6a QB starting finishing kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cappucci, Louis" <Louis.Cappucci(at)gs.com> |
is the "s" cowl now a standard part of the finish kit for the 6A? i ordered
my finish kit a few weeks ago and paid in full to avoid the year-end price
increase (which as far as i can tell has not happened). i also paid extra
for the s-type cowl. can i get a refund? the kit won't arrive until may.
louis cappucci
6a-qb
mamaroneck, ny
> The drawing for the cowl installation in the RV-6(A) has been updated to
> include the info for the "S" cowl (now stabdard in the finish kit BTW)
> The drawings that were supplied in your finish kit should have it.
>
>
> Scott McDaniels
> These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
> reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> -
>
> -
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gummos" <tg1965(at)linkline.com> |
Today my daughter said I had a message on the answering machine. She tried
to save it but erased it instead. Something about a Harmon Rocket visiting
Apple Valley 9:00 on Friday. Sorry I missed you. Please e-mail me so I
know who stopped by.
Thanks,
Tom Gummo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)email.msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Band Saw - Can't decide] |
I found a useful blade to be a hollow ground planner blade for cutting
plywood. Just so happens the Black and Decker outlet store had a few on
sale. at $6 bucks I could not resist. Works great on 0.125 in. also. I cut
close and then sand with my Christmas gift, a sears 4"x36" band sander.
-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kempthorne <halk(at)sybase.com>
Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: [RV-List: Band Saw - Can't decide]
>
>I use a combination blade (wood blade) on my table saw. It cuts 1/8 inch
like
>butter. Thinner than .063 stock needs to be cut on a piece of board but I
use a
>Prosnip then.
>
>hal
>
>> At Home Depot and such places they sell a aluminum cutting saw blade for
a
>> circular saw or a table saw.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Hoshowski" <ve7fp(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | 0-360 vs 0-320 weight |
Someone was asking about the difference in weight between these two engines.
I have an 0-320 B3B with constant speed empty weight wasd 1052 lbs
Eustaces' original installation of an 0-360 with constant speed weighed in
at 1076 lbs. Although we have a different panel I don't think there would
be more than a couple of lbs difference and our upholstery would also be
pretty close. I think that equally equipped RV6s wouldn' be more than 20
lbs difference 0-360 vs 0-320. I have light weight alternator but stock
starter.
Ken Hoshowski RV6 C-FKEH
Salmon Arm B.C. First flight Sept.8/93
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: brake line repost |
In a message dated 2/19/99 10:58:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,
dan(at)interlinkrecruiting.com writes:
<< I'm in the process of placing the holes for the brake, fuel and fuel vent
lines that go thru the fuselage at the wing. The plans have no dimensions
as to where to make these exit holes, especially the for the brakes.
Can anyone suggest some positions relative to the bulkhead and spar and the
2 horizontals in that area? >>
I put just this info in the archives about 6 months ago for someone else.
-GV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another ascention |
>Right wing was heavy,
> with full left trim the aircraft still banked sharply to the right
when
> releasing aileron control. Wing incidence checked out ok some of the
rocket
> scientist standing around said squeezing the trailing edge of the
right
> aileron (It appears the ends of the ailerons could be squeezed some)
could
> this cause the right wing to be this heavy dont want to start fixing
until
> we have heard from the learned. Thanks in advance.
Pass on congratulations from us - also pass on suggestion to check out
18 years of the RV-Ator, pages 68 and 69 for information regarding
squeezing ailerons to adjust for wing heaviness.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
N140RV (Reserved)
Hanging wing ribs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jerry calvert <calverjl(at)flash.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Another ascention |
joseph.wiza wrote:
>
>
>**snip**
> Right wing was heavy,
> with full left trim the aircraft still banked sharply to the right when
> releasing aileron control. Wing incidence checked out ok some of the rocket
> scientist standing around said squeezing the trailing edge of the right
> aileron (It appears the ends of the ailerons could be squeezed some) could
> this cause the right wing to be this heavy dont want to start fixing until
> we have heard from the learned. Thanks in advance.
>
> RV6A/Finsih kit dim light visable could be my imagination though.
>
Joeseph,
Lightly squeeze the light aileron!
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6a wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JimNolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Another ascension |
>
>
> Friend of mine asked me to put this on the net. N88WG made a successful
> maiden flight today. RV6A, 0320, Ed Sterba prop 68-72. The flight lasted
> about 45 minutes, RPM would not exceed 2450, at 4000' cyl head temp at 500
> deg reducing rpm to 2200 brought it back down to 400.
Make sure the Mags have been pinned in the right location. When I put my engine
together a A&P said to pin the left Mag with the L location and the right Mag with
the R location. I got the results you're talking about right down to the letter.
I only
let mine go up to 400 degrees and because I didn't have the rpm, I knew something
was wrong.
BTW: It started and idled beautifully
Make sure both mags are pinned in the L position.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Has any used Central Pneumatic tools? |
I agree--you can can define precision as each individual might like--after all
we live in a society that can argue what the word "is"means. I think the word
precision can be applied to a hand drill-palm drill-air motor-what have you.
My Sioux drill turning at 3600 RPM smoothly and quietly can cut laser like
holes in the thin aluminum. I realize most people on this list are building
only one airplane and are not professional mechanics. Good service can be had
from some awfully cheap tools for a single project but for years of good
service nothing beats a quality tool and from my vantage point that Central
Pneumatic stuff looks kind of clunky to me. JR--mak'in metal on Cessna's
latest Citation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rvbldr3170(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
In a message dated 2/18/99 2:19:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, halk(at)sybase.com
writes:
<< One of us asked to see INSTALLED weights for these engines. >>
Yes, I asked for it, because the weights everyone has been tossing around on
the varying lists are bare engine weights with no magnetos, alternators
governors etc.
Everyone tells me my Chevy is going to be a stone because it's so heavy, and
then compare it with a bare Lycoming.
I want to know apples to apples what the weights are.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another ascension |
Jim.
I assume you ar talking about the index
marks on the mag distributor gears.
The L is for left hand rotation and the R
is for right hand rotation.
Both mags turn the same rotation on these
engines! Your A and P should have known better.
Stew RV4 CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Bronson <IMAV8N(at)compuserve.com> |
Hi Folks,
I am going to go out on a limb here, and encourage continued posts of this
type. Sure, it is not directly related to the actual construction process
of an RV, but it serves a purpose to remind us all of the magic of flight
which sets us apart from the people who surround us. I have taken
the liberty of removing the *dew knot ark hive* in order to preserve this
commentary. I further suggest that in the future, posters include the key
word MAGIC in the body of their contribution (so that we can easily search
for inspiration when we feel the need), and in the title (so those who are
strictly interested in the technical aspects can hit delete and avoid a
perceived waste of time).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Buster.
Tim - Pittsburgh
************
-------------Forwarded Message-----------------
Here I sit, all snapped up on white wine (wife forced it on me),
contemplating my flight today in a (gasp, egad), 172 !
On take-off and climb-out, I wondered what was wrong with the
airplane !
So slow and sedate and sluggish on controls.
Even I, senior citizen, felt that I was sitting in family sedan, merely
watching scenery go by. But I enjoyed it anyway, since it is flying, after
all.
Took twice as long to get to my hamburger heaven airfield some 60 miles off
!
Airspeed seemed stuck. Can it not get needle above 110 ?
Nevertheless, I was flying, and it was glorious. Nobody else seemed to be
up. Spanking wind, grey skies, muddy river, and here I realized that if an
Rv lurked about, I would become the white wings over the landscape, easy to
bounce, able only to watch the little fighter Chandelle up and away, while
the speed of the dive made him soar up, up, and around beyond my seeing, to
cavort like the eagles that dive at me from time to time.
Saucy so and so's both of them, the eagles and the RV.
I am flying a truck, albeit nice and smooth and fairly quiet,
unlike that barking fighter that darts with ease any way he likes, just as
the eagles do...
Majestic, both of them !
I plod over the hills where once I used to race, use both hands to crank
the wheel, where once two fingers and a thought would have me on my side and
pulling "g" !
No sun today to light up the land below, and trees are bending in the wind
and the mountains all around are white and blue with cold.
No campers on the river banks and no fighters doing low runs and twisting
with the shore lines.
The air is smooth up here though, the engine running strong and I can see
for many miles, where we flew in formation and learned the discipline of
flight in company.
Can't wait to do it again.
The land below me slides by in a very sedate fashion and I feel like a
student.
Keep the ball in the middle, turn gently, head for the pattern, and head
back into conformity.
I manage to pee off the tower since I call too far out at this speed,
....in an RV, it was necessary !
My approach is too close and too high, but full flaps and low airspeed
get me home on the runway with a gentle plop...I am still too used to an RV
where a "carrier approach" was the order of the day.
I have a stuck mike and get a green light....didn't know they still knew
how to use them.
Got back in to taxi and they reamed me out some more....who cares ?
"172 driver, call tower at this number"...."had kind of a hard day today,
didn't we ?'..I stopped on the yellow lines to switch freq.... I am old, and
the grey cells die in abundance, and besides, the euphoria of having flown
when not many else will still thrills me....perhaps twisting authority's
tail thrills me more...
The icing on the cake comes when I walk back after tying down, and I spy an
RV4 coming my way with strobes flashing and a little kid in the back with an
ear to ear grin.
Grand-dad and the kid give me the high sign and I watch them grow smaller.
Great, dark, windy, tower piss off day to fly.
I feel blessed and go home to bash some rivets.
You should do the same !
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | OrndorffG(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Wing Kit for sale |
All,
The wing kit is for an RV-6/6A. And Becki didn't put the information out
in
the original message, not George. Sorry.
Becki Orndorff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CTonnini(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV3A Fast Back FOR SALE |
RV3A Fast Back in final stage, just needs assembling, major riveting
already completed.
Also has STEVE FRY fuselage jig and 0320 (160 hp) engine with YELLOW TAG
crank case and standard crank shaft.
All remaining parts have been inspected. All that is required is four jugs
and some time to assemble.
Note: Spars built with 3/16 laminated and 3/16 rivets
For more details please contact Claudio Tonnini by EMAIL at:
CTonnini(at)aol.com
Or by phone at:
800-582-3125 (Days) and
732-698-0705 (Evenings)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Acker" <rvsixer(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
>
>Yes, I asked for it, because the weights everyone has been tossing around
on
>the varying lists are bare engine weights with no magnetos, alternators
>governors etc.
>Everyone tells me my Chevy is going to be a stone because it's so heavy,
and
>then compare it with a bare Lycoming.
>I want to know apples to apples what the weights are.
The best apples to apples comparison is flying aircraft (which require all
necessary oranges and apples be installed ). Since there are several
Chevy V-6 RV-xxx conversions flying around, and a few thousand Lycoming
powered ones, a conclusion is fairly easy to reach.
The lightest conversion I researched was the BAP configuration. This is a
very basic aircraft (i.e. no gyros, no interior, stock iron heads, light f/p
carbon prop, etc.) that came in at around 1150lbs. The heaviest I've seen
was in the last RVator, at an EMPTY weight of 1315lbs !!!
By comparison, I know of one Lycoming powered RV-6A (no paint, basic
interior, basic panel, metal f/p prop) that's 997 lbs, and others fully
loaded (i.e. paint, full interior, IO-360, constant speed prop, etc.) that
are around 1080-1160 lbs.
So, it appears, the Chevy conversions run about 160-200 lbs. heavier in
flying configuration. Therefore:
Chevy: Initial savings upfront over Lycoming (about $2-8K, disappears as you
try to make it lighter), heavier (puts airframe beyond aerobatic and
recommended gross weights), more complex install, more components, aviation
use reliability not fully established, very cheap to overhaul.
Lyc: Greater cost upfront, lighter (aerobatic and recommended gross weights
can be met), easier install, proven reliability, expensive to overhaul,
archaic design.
Rob Acker (RV-6Q, Lycosaur mounted, hoping there's a nice proven rotary
conversion next time around).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: 0-360 vs. 0-320 weight |
>Yes, I asked for it, because the weights everyone has been tossing
>around on
>the varying lists are bare engine weights with no magnetos,
>alternators
>governors etc.
>Everyone tells me my Chevy is going to be a stone because it's so
>heavy, and
>then compare it with a bare Lycoming.
>I want to know apples to apples what the weights are.
>
>
This is not totally correct.
The weight for an O-360 Lycoming (depends on exact model) is about 285
lbs. This does include mags, starter, alternator, and carb,
but does not include prop., exhaust, baffling, or misc hoses and wire.
One of the more recent issues of the RVator had an article provided by an
RV-6A builder who was flying with an auto engine conversion. If I
remember correctly he was quite honest in the data he provided for engine
installation and finished airplane weights. If you don't have a copy I'm
sure you can find someone who does, or call the office at Van's and I'm
sure the could help.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: Another ascension |
>Make sure the Mags have been pinned in the right location. When I put
>my engine
>together a A&P said to pin the left Mag with the L location and the
>right Mag with
>the R location. I got the results you're talking about right down to
>the letter. I only
>let mine go up to 400 degrees and because I didn't have the rpm, I
>knew something
>was wrong.
>BTW: It started and idled beautifully
>Make sure both mags are pinned in the L position.
>
>Jim Nolan
>N444JN
>
>
Jim,
I am curious as to what the results of a mag. check during run up would
be with the mags incorrectly timed this way.
Scott McDaniels
These opinions and ideas are mine alone and do not necessarily
reflect the opinions and ideas of my employer.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smcdaniels(at)Juno.com |
| Subject: | Re: PPG dealers? |
writes:
>
>I can't seem to find a dealer for PPG paint products. I've wasted
>hours
>looking through various sources. If you know of a way to find a
>regional
>source, please inform me. I tried www.ppg.com but that is more
>corporate
>related. Our yeller pages doesn't seem to have anything either.
>Thanks,
February 14, 1999 - February 20, 1999
RV-Archive.digest.vol-gk